#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-07
<micahg> mr_pouit: can I pull in the new xfce4-mixer?
<mr_pouit> micahg: feel free to do it
<micahg> mr_pouit: thanks, will do later this week
<mr_pouit> (it's not really bugfix only, so I've been too lazy because of the possible paper work)
<micahg> mr_pouit: I think we want it though, right?
<micahg> I'm guessing we're less likely to have issues with teh 4.8 mixer than the 4.6 one
<mr_pouit> We already ship the most important bugfixes as patches
<mr_pouit> but the libxfce4ui port might be interesting (although we won't get rid of libxfcegui4 anytime soon)
<micahg> mr_pouit: I actually don't have the xfce4-mixer anymore after I upgraded to natty, figured being 4.6.x might be part of the reason
 * micahg wants to get rid of the gnome-media stuff
<mr_pouit> micahg: mmh, what do you mean?
<micahg> gnome-media applets replaced xfce4-mixer in my panel on upgrade
<micahg> also, I haven't been able to get nm-applet back on the panel
<micahg> I couldn't see the session applet until I removed the indicator applet
<mr_pouit> A lot of useless things are probably pulled in on upgrades :/
<mr_pouit> e.g. gnome-media, gnome-system-monitor, and indicator-appmenu
<mr_pouit> (xfce4-mixer should still be installable though, even if it's not in the default panel config)
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<micahg> good morning
<micahg> I found something else that should go in the launcher, pidgin :)
 * micahg is on naowtty n
<micahg> *natty now
<charlie-tca> pidgin is in the indicator panel, you don't need a launcher to start it
<charlie-tca> just click the envelope in the panel
<micahg> that's thunderbird 
<charlie-tca> no, the top panel has an envelope that is the indicators, it should start pidgin there
 * micahg thinks he got rid of that
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> Well, that should start pidgin for you, though. lol
<charlie-tca> The good thing is you can drag and drop a launcher into the panel
<micahg> indicators were broke on the first load, maybe I'll try them again tomorrow (have work to do today :))
<charlie-tca> Just add pidgin to the launcher panel. I never use it, myself.
<ochosi> hey charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Hello, ochosi 
<ochosi> i fixed a few problems in greybird over the weekend, and there was also one more thing i wanted to propose
<ochosi> at first i wanted to make the indicator-menus fit the panel-color (atm they are bright like all other menus)
<ochosi> and then i realized that if i make them dark, it seems inconsistent with the app-menu and the session-menu
<charlie-tca> Aren't they a menu, too?
<ochosi> yeah, but that's the thing:
<ochosi> appmenu and session-menu are generic gtk-menus, so you can't theme them directly without theming all the other menus as well
<ochosi> so basically i went ahead and tried that
<ochosi> in fact i think it makes the menus in all applications stand out a little more, they're more visible
<ochosi> but you could also argue that a bright menubar with a dark menu looks inconsistent
<ochosi> anyhow, i think it'd be best if you gave it a try yourself
<charlie-tca> okay, where do I grab it?
<ochosi> btw, there are no applications that have troubles with this, i fixed ooo, firefox etc. and all of them are ok
<ochosi> charlie-tca: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/archives/master
<ochosi> it's rather easy to switch the dark menus on and off
<ochosi> i can comment the code in a way that a user can quickly switch back to bright/dark menus (whatever we decide for in the end)
<charlie-tca> Original menus are light/medium grey?
<ochosi> yeah, the original menus are grey
<ochosi> they look consistent, but they don't stand out from the rest of the window very much
<ochosi> i think that's the biggest gain
<charlie-tca> okay, I just realized I have no menus 
<ochosi> and of course the panel-menus look a lot more consistent now
<ochosi> you don't?
<ochosi> no xfce4-appmenu?
<ochosi> in thunar there also should be menus
<charlie-tca> no, I upgraded to natty before alpha1. When Xfce4.8 came along, the application menu was broken
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> well, most other apps should have menus too
<ochosi> firefox, thunar etc
<charlie-tca> I never added it to the panel
<ochosi> even if you don't you'll see the difference in the session-menu
<ochosi> and the indicators
<charlie-tca> I have no indicators, either
<ochosi> right :)
<charlie-tca> I don't even have the right panels
<ochosi> well, nvm
<charlie-tca> it's okay, I have the greybird theme at least
<charlie-tca> the panels are the right colors
<ochosi> yeah
<charlie-tca> I just had it all set up, and it works real good for me
<ochosi> good to hear
<ochosi> well check out how it works with the latest greybird for you and let me know
<charlie-tca> that's why I have to install from the images every day or two
<charlie-tca> That's when I see the real changes we made
<ochosi> mmh
<ochosi> yeah the greybird changes i just talked about haven't been pushed to xubuntu yet, they're only in git
<ochosi> ok, i'll be back later
<charlie-tca> Got the download, will put it all in themes
<charlie-tca> micahg: can you take a look at the latest theme?
<charlie-tca> I like it
<charlie-tca> a lot
<micahg> charlie-tca: maybe this evening
<charlie-tca> okay, thanks
<charlie-tca> dictionary plugin works good on panel, verve plugin - text typed matches the color of the background, and is not visible; xfce4-timer-plugin - scale is black, can not see the bar graph move
<charlie-tca> well, erased the wrong drive on my test install today; got to set a new install for the grandkids again
<micahg> indicator plugin + nm-applet is broke
<charlie-tca> unity auto login is broken too
<charlie-tca> what did we break?
<charlie-tca> you said you removed that indicator thing
<micahg> yep, when I add it back, nm-applet goes away
<micahg> or rather is hidden
<micahg> and I can't get it back unless I restart the panel
<charlie-tca> oh, yeah, it hides. Click where it should be, it should still work
<charlie-tca> i forgot that one
<micahg> items list doesn't show it
<charlie-tca> should still be on the panel, maybe as a blank space
<micahg> items should show everything in the panel
<micahg> and no, I can't click it
<charlie-tca> hm, unity is nice, but very hard for new users to find anything that is not already in the launcher panel
<ochosi> micahg: no, items list doesn't show anything inside the indicator applet
<micahg> ah, hmm
<ochosi> micahg: are you using a vertical or a horizontal panel?
 * micahg tries adding back the indicator applet to see if nm-applet appears
<micahg> horizontal
<ochosi> micahg: afaik indicators can only be used in a horizontal panel
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> do a "xfce4-panel --restart" after adding the indicator plugin
<mr_pouit> yeah, the current callback for xfce4-indicator-plugin in orientation-changed does nothing =]
<ochosi> hehe, in fact i read the code a while ago and was wondering why there was code for it that does nothing :)
<micahg> indicator-plugin has no width
<charlie-tca> Isn't horizontal only going to lead to a lot of user issues?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: how do you mean?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: both our panels are horizontal atm and afaik the xubuntu/ubuntu panels always have been (without unity)
<mr_pouit> micahg: feel free to create a patch, I already heavily patched it to make it work
<micahg> the dock works vertical
<mr_pouit> (I sent them upstream too)
<micahg> mr_pouit: that doesn't sound good :-/
<mr_pouit> well, it's definitely not cool, but many panel plugins work badly with vertical panels
<ochosi> i have to say vertical panel has improved a lot since 4.6
<ochosi> e.g. the window-buttons
<micahg> well, I'm just worried about the indicator plugin horizontal ATM
<ochosi> micahg: you mean the indicators work vertically but not horizontally?
<charlie-tca> yes, we default to horizontal, but users can make them vertical. If a default plugin fails then, we did that to them
<micahg> ochosi: no, they don't work horizontally on the top panel (I haven't tried vertically)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: not sure that if a user changes something about the config we provide him with it's the best phrasing to say "we did that to them", because even technically they did it to themselves
<ochosi> charlie-tca: also, we can't fix everything that doesn't work upstream (even though mr_pouit does a hell of a job trying ;) )
<charlie-tca> It is our position to provide the best possible user experience. We don't invalidate a bug because a user changed something. and we should not be telling the user, you moved something, so you broke it
 * micahg will be uploading a new version of crashtastic midori tonight
<ochosi> micahg: nice, looking forward to testing midori again
<mr_pouit> micahg: huhu, I thought it had improved
<charlie-tca> By using the indicator applet, we created the defaults. To tell them they broke it by moving the panel is werong
<charlie-tca> s/werong/wrong
<micahg> 0.3.0 is horrible
 * micahg is hoping 0.3.2 is better (paperwork done :))
<ochosi> charlie-tca: well, i didn't mean the bug is invalid, but i thought we already try to provide the best user experience by using the panel config we developed over the last months
 * micahg is notorious for filing lots of FFes
<charlie-tca> well, we are. but did we know the indicator applet has to stay horizontal?
<charlie-tca> It's like the session menu bug. I have not had a failure since I removed that thing
<ochosi> hm, i wasn't consciously thinking of it, but i experienced it before
<charlie-tca> Lack of information makes for bad decisions, sometimes
 * ochosi hasn't experienced any session-menu probs lately
<charlie-tca> I will say we seem to be making a better user experience that Unity is, right now
<charlie-tca> I think removing the menus is a bad thing for Ubuntu. It is not easy for the new user to find anything, including how to add new users
<micahg> especially if the search doesn't work :-/
<charlie-tca> even if it does, if you came from windows, what would you search for?
<charlie-tca> I just locked up Ubuntu completely, trying to set the screensaver
<mr_pouit> I'll say it, one last time: the "logout-to-gdm-instead-of-reboot" is not specific to xfsm-logout-plugin...
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I keep hearing that, but not using session menu solved it here, on three systems
<mr_pouit> well, good for you
<mr_pouit> for me, using applications > logout, I always return to gdm
<charlie-tca> OTOH, none were virtual machines
<charlie-tca> remove session menu, add Action Buttons, first restart goes to gdm, then it works
<charlie-tca> As long as session menu is in the panel, it fails
 * micahg had that happen in a non-virtual machine as well
<ochosi> charlie-tca: what do you think of the new greybird-menus?
<knome> charlie-tca, the slideshow is pending on your opinion on the greybird menus. can you give one?
<charlie-tca> ochosi: I like it, a lot
<charlie-tca> It does show up much better
<ochosi> ok cool :)
<ochosi> happy to hear that
<ochosi> as stated above i tested it in natty and maverick with the known troublemaker-apps like firefox and libreoffice and it all seems to work great
<charlie-tca> wonderful! They really are more visible, and I don't think the contrast is bad
<ochosi> yeah, the contrast is the same as in the panel
<ochosi> so it should work ok for dark and bright icons
<ochosi> and i also tried to make the text very readable
<charlie-tca> knome: explain?
<charlie-tca> what about greybird menus?
<ochosi> he meant that the menus will show up in the screenshots for the slideshow and i'm about to do them ;)
<ochosi> will or might show up
<charlie-tca> It would be good to showcase them
<ochosi> yes, that's what i thought
<ochosi> especially since we'll show the application menu
<knome> :)
<knome> no problem then
<charlie-tca> and we have Oneiric Ocelot coming next!
<charlie-tca> oneiric is pronounced own-eye-rick
<ochosi> yeah, that'll definitely be harder for non-native speakers than "natty" or "maverick"
<charlie-tca> um, it is not really all that common for native speakers
<ochosi> hm yeah, i guessed so :)
<ochosi> it sounds a bit obscure
<ochosi> as in: obscure ocelot
<charlie-tca> http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/audio/lunaWAV/O01/O0101300.wav
<charlie-tca> is the official pronunciation
<charlie-tca> It just hurts my eyes to say it... :-(
<micahg> oh, is lightdm not provided on upgrades?
<micahg> and where should I file a missing menu category icon bug under?
<charlie-tca> lightdm is in the repository, but we are not using it yet
<charlie-tca> which category is missing the icon?
<micahg> oh, ok
<micahg> Education
<Sysi> any plans about 4.8 lucid ppa?
<charlie-tca> not yet, Sysi 
<Sysi> http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=5712 koshi says there are some problems, i'm gonna try if it works self-compiled
<charlie-tca> micahg: I am looking
<mr_pouit> micahg: elementary-icon-theme, but upstream is on lp as well, so you might want to check their bzr branch before reporting
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, thanks
<micahg> charlie-tca: where's the Firefox menu for you?  in the panel or in Firefox?
<charlie-tca> firefox
<charlie-tca> Tell me we have not followed ubuntu's lead and moved them to the panel, please.
<charlie-tca> Unity is about the hardest, least accessible thing I have tried yet
<micahg> the xfce4-indicator-plugin is claiming it supports it, so I lost my menus
<mr_pouit> remove indicator-appmenu
<micahg> ugh, then I can't test unity :-/
<micahg> that's probably what's killing it though
<mr_pouit> I've a work-in-progress patch to blacklist it from xfce4-indicator-plugin if you want to test
<micahg> mr_pouit: sure
<micahg> PPA or patch
<charlie-tca> right now, to use unity requires a hardware keyboard and mouse
<mr_pouit> micahg: http://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/xfce4-indicator-plugin/debian-changes-0.2.0-0ubuntu3
<charlie-tca> Those who can not use the keyboard are screwed
<mr_pouit> micahg: and the plugin config is http://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/xfce4-indicator-plugin/indicator-5.rc (for the default config, you can put it in /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/panel or in $HOME/.config/xfce4/panel/)
<micahg> mr_pouit: that version appears to be in natty
<mr_pouit> yep, that's a quick hack
<mr_pouit> (I didn't bump the version locally)
<micahg> k, thanks
<micahg> mr_pouit: didn't seem to work, I restarted the panel after I rebuilt with it
<mr_pouit> micahg: does the plugin number of the config file match yours?
<mr_pouit> (in the default xubuntu config, indicator is the 5th plugin, but for you it might be different)
<mr_pouit> so you have to change the filename (indicator-XX.rc)
<micahg> where do I find this info?
<micahg> is this the list in the panel prefs?
<mr_pouit> usually, grep indicator ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-panel.xml
<mr_pouit> yeah, or in the prefs
<mr_pouit> (the tooltip will give you the internal name)
<micahg> mr_pouit: it works, now the trick must be to get the numbers aligned :), it's 6 fo rme
<micahg> and now it's beautiful :)
<mr_pouit> thanks for alpha testing ;-)
<micahg> no problem, I'm happy to have nm-applet working :)
 * micahg loves fixes that can be applies in under 5 minutes :)
<micahg> *applied
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-08
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: powerpc builds are stopped
<ochosi> good news everyone, there'll be a new release of the elementary icons really soon (as in: within the next days) and my patch for the bug with the appfinder (appfinder-icon == catfish-icon) is included
<micahg> ochosi: is the missing education icon known?
<ochosi> micahg: is it also missing in bzr?
<micahg> ochosi: idk, haven't checked yet
<ochosi> i'll quickly have a look
<ochosi> micahg: sry, can't say whether it's known, it seems to be missing though: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementarydesign/elementaryicons/trunk/files/head:/elementary-icon-theme/elementary/categories/24/?file_id=categories-20091112072358-d8c4uieo922x9z6k-20
<micahg> ochosi: do you want me to file a bug, if so where
<ochosi> i'm not sure, i quickly have to reboot to get from my testing to my working env and then i'll get back to you
<micahg> ochosi: I also wanted to make sure the category should be there according to the spec
<ochosi> i'll try to communicate with upstream directly and see whether we can fix it before the release
<ochosi> hm yeah, probably taking a look at the spec beforehands makes sense :)
<ochosi> brb
<ochosi> micahg: so we have to check the fd.org specs for icons, right?
<micahg> ochosi: idk :)
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> two experts talking :)
<micahg> I'm just starting to get involved here :)
<ochosi> micahg: http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html   go to "Table 5."
<ochosi> what apps are using the category education?
<micahg> just anki ATM, which leads me to believe it's wrong
<ochosi> right, never heard of anki before
<ochosi> probably file the bug there ,)
<charlie-tca> um, gcompris uses Education too
<charlie-tca> It is an application aimed at helping kids learn the computer
<charlie-tca> as well as teaching numbers and alphabet
<ochosi> hm, well somehow it doesn't seem fd.org compliant to use that category
<ochosi> but hey, basically anyone can create categories as they please :)
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu uses education also
<ochosi> to the worst we can fix that bug by throwing ubuntu's education icon into elementaryXubuntu
<charlie-tca> That might be the best way to do it, there are other education applications, but I can't remember them now
<charlie-tca> and, I just re-formatted the drive with them... :-(
<micahg> maybe we should ask dobey since he wrote the spec :)
<ochosi> micahg: sure, go ahead :)
<charlie-tca> the other side will be the number of reports we get based on the category without an icon
<micahg> charlie-tca: well, if the category shouldn't be there, we should fix the packages
<charlie-tca> Great idea. Can we start with gcompris, which I install for kids to use?
<micahg> charlie-tca: sure, I can fix it, once we confirm where the issue is
<charlie-tca> I take it back, Ubuntu no longer uses menus for anything
<ochosi> :)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, ochosi : slideshow in today's desktop image is only the last page
<charlie-tca> hm, then it appears to actually start and go throguh slides
<charlie-tca> micahg: yes, pidgin starts from the indicator-plugin on the live desktop
<mr_pouit> slideshows haven't been touched yet, anyway
<charlie-tca> they are acting weird for some reason
<mr_pouit> micahg: if it's not supposed to be here, I can remove the education category from the default xubuntu menu file
<mr_pouit> but afaik, this category exists and is valid
<charlie-tca> It starts as a blank, goes to the last page, then starts over and works
<micahg> mr_pouit: yeah, I'll have to talk to dobey, it's not on the freedesktop spec
<mr_pouit> http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html
<mr_pouit> it's here, at least
<micahg> mr_pouit: ah, that's probably the more recent one, ochosi gave me an outdated link :)
<mr_pouit> no, that wasn't the same spec
<mr_pouit> (icon vs. menu)
<micahg> mr_pouit: how do we resolve the 2
<mr_pouit> hehe
<micahg> mr_pouit: I got the ACK from mythbuntu on updating xfce4-mixer, I'll file the paperwork soon, builds fine as well, but needs merge due to epoch
<micahg> mr_pouit: do you have a branch for it, or can I just upload?
<charlie-tca> At least I don't need Alt+sysRq+k to get the desktop in Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: desktop image works today; install completed without crashes; restarted to the desktop without crashes
<charlie-tca> ochosi: got two workspaces in the live cd, 4 workspaces in the installed desktop
<mr_pouit> micahg: I used bzr branches for one release, and then I threw everything to /dev/null, the launchpad importer was never up to date when I needed it
<mr_pouit> so, no branch
<micahg> mr_pouit: heh, ok, do you want to maintain in Debian git?
<micahg> or is it not worth it for these minor diffs?
<mr_pouit> yeah, we'll put branches in debian git, when pkg-xfce uses it too (for the moment it's still svn and no migration has been planned ;-)
<mr_pouit> I don't even remember why xfce4-mixer has an epoch
<mr_pouit> iirc, it's not even said in debian/changelog
<mr_pouit> that's a great epic fail
<mr_pouit> so feel free to upload directly
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: nice, thanks for testing
<micahg> mr_pouit:  * Sync with os-works.com.
<micahg> almost 6 yrs ago
<mr_pouit> micahg: where do you see that? I can't find it in debian/changelog apparently
<micahg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-mixer/+changelog
<mr_pouit> ah indeed
<mr_pouit> that was a bad move :(
<micahg> apparently Ubuntu was much looser with epoch bumps in the past, now they are frowned upon
<mr_pouit> (tbh, ubuntu was much looser with everything, especially badly/undocumented merges :)
<mr_pouit> oops, I should refresh the pages before replying to a bug :>
<charlie-tca> I hate when I do that
<mr_pouit> well, I just did that to the claws-indicator bug ;>
<charlie-tca> Of course, with all the advances made in browser technology, you would think they would refresh automatically by now
<charlie-tca> They can do it on pages full of garbage, why not on pages you care about?
<charlie-tca> Hm, I would file that as a suggestion/wishlist, but mozilla won t allow me to file anything greater than a stupid 140 characters
<micahg> charlie-tca: ?
<charlie-tca> you can click feedback in 4.0b12, and give a 140 character comment. Nothing else works
<Sysi> i think there's been automatic reload since like 2.0, but i dunno how to use it
<charlie-tca> which makes it useless?
<Sysi> i've never needed it..
<Sysi> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/reloadevery/
<charlie-tca> not built in, ?
<Sysi> apparently
<micahg> charlie-tca: idk, ask chrisccoulson about that
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-09
<ochosi> micahg: any chance we can integrate this in xubuntu anytime soon? https://code.launchpad.net/messagingmenu-extension
<micahg> ochosi: I don't know if that's going to land this cycle
<micahg> definitely for O
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> would be really nice to have it this cycle but i guess it's already pretty late
<micahg> actually, I shouldn't say definitely, but it's on the radar :)
<ochosi> .9
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> ok, i thought i might give it a try later in natty
<jo-erlend> I'd like to learn how to write xfce4-panel applets using Python and PyGTK. Any recomendations? 
<ochosi> jo-erlend: hmyeah, first recommendation is to join #xfce and then try to get a voice in #xfce-dev
<jo-erlend> #xfce tells me to ask in #xfce-dev and those are, as you say, moderated and I have no idea how to get voiced. 
<ochosi> you have to ask one of the people who can give you a voice, e.g. JPohlmann
<mr_pouit> afaik, #xfce-dev isn't voiced anymore?
<ochosi> no?
<jo-erlend> you're right. They aren't moderated anymore. I guess I just gave up too early. :)
<mr_pouit> anyway, it would require python bindings for xfce4-panel, and I don't think they are available (or up-to-date)
<jo-erlend> heh... There's always something, isn't there. 
<jo-erlend> guess I can stick with gnome-panel for the time being. Shouldn't be too difficult to move them to xfce4-panel plugins later. But I really prefer the xfce4-panel to gnome-panel. 
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-10
<pleia2> btw: http://ubuntu-news.org/2011/03/10/wiki-ubuntu-com-upgrade-update/
<pleia2> so maybe maybe in 2 weeks the wiki shall rise again
<Sysi> so, have the default applications all been decided, and do we have any space on installation disk? i've talked about adding pavucontrol earlier already, bu i think not in correct place
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> yes, default apps have been decided
<Sysi> it's a bit weird that we have pulseaudio and only control to it is volume control in xfce4-mixer
<Sysi> but of course people needing it can install it later
<charlie-tca> It is also weird that I have never installed that and still get sound?
<Sysi> well you have that sound control :P
<Sysi> hum, does switching soundcard from xfce4-mixer work for pulseaudio?
<charlie-tca> I seem to be in minority too, I think, when it comes to getting sound to work without pavucontrol
<charlie-tca> I only have one soundcard
<Sysi> i don't use pulseaudio at all
<charlie-tca> I use it, because it allows sound from virtualbox machines and the hardware at the same time
<charlie-tca> ochosi: from #xubunru
<charlie-tca> <halaszvarig> I just finished a google chrome theme matching the new greybird xubuntu look: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/djhdibfheaidnhfnhhnmdngcmjpicpkn
<ochosi> charlie-tca: hm, the guy isn't there anymore
<ochosi> charlie-tca: looks nice, anyhow, greybird has a chrome/chromium style included, so no need for an external theme
<charlie-tca> Just wanted to pass that on to you
<charlie-tca> He came and announced and left
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> well i guess in a way that's rather positive feedback :)
<charlie-tca> yeah
<charlie-tca> copy is flattery!
<ochosi> i might not be able to attend tonight's meeting as i'm currently ill
<ochosi> and i need to rest again soon
<charlie-tca> Okay, take care of yourself
<ochosi> i just wanted to check whether tonight the *final* decision about the wallpaper is taken
<charlie-tca> hopefully, to give the artist time to change anything needed
<ochosi> right
<charlie-tca> but we will see
<ochosi> ok, so let me quickly pass on my artwork news to you for the meeting
<charlie-tca> Do we have any new logos to check out?
<ochosi> i looked into that with knome, there's a problem with how the new panel handles the menu-icon
<ochosi> i filed a bug about it upstream
<ochosi> the new app-menu button is always scaled down to square size
<ochosi> so there's not much room for improvement over the current icon
<ochosi> i'd suggest we stick to it
<knome> charlie-tca, i probably can't attend the meeting today, and my wallpaper proposal is not finished. is it a catastrophe?
<charlie-tca> yes
<knome> well, i'm going to submit what i have now.
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> We gave what, 4 months or so notice this time?
<charlie-tca> ochosi: okay
<charlie-tca> what else do we have?
<knome> we have what, this thing called life ?
<charlie-tca> That's fine
<ochosi> charlie-tca: in other artwork news: greybird is now fixed to theme gdm
<ochosi> and i improved the xfce4-notification style so that it's more contrasty
<ochosi> and easier to see
<ochosi> also: there has been a new release of the elementary icons upstream as promised and that includes quite a few fixes for us
<ochosi> i submitted many patches to them
<charlie-tca> What did we decide on the Education icon?
<ochosi> nothing just yet
<ochosi> tbh i didn't get what the final point was in "freedesktop-icon-spec vs. freedesktop-menu-spec"
<ochosi> but i can add an icon for it in elementaryXubuntu
<charlie-tca> We only have about two weeks left now to make these things happen
<ochosi> i think we might be able to slim that down a bit, since much of what it contained is now in upstream as well
<ochosi> i know
<ochosi> right, i guess that's about it for artwork atm
<charlie-tca> okay, I will pass that stuff along
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> :)
<charlie-tca> get some rest?
<ochosi> btw, about the wallpapers, i'd be happy if it were something not just grey or blue
<ochosi> i submitted to green photos myself that i like a lot
<charlie-tca> Yeah, me too. But I think we can ask for a change to them, too
<ochosi> s/to/two
<knome> http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515380336/in/pool-uawt-7
<charlie-tca> non-photos can always be changed a bit, right?
<ochosi> sure, also photos can be changed
<ochosi> anyhow, to be honest there are quite a lot submissions that i don't like...
<charlie-tca> I kind of like http://www.flickr.com/photos/57470087@N03/5297409903/in/pool-uawt-7
<charlie-tca> and the balloons
<mr_pouit> Not sure I'll be on time for the meeting (I'll be either 20 min late or 20 min too early ;-).
<charlie-tca> Well, that is a pickle
<charlie-tca> hm, could be a real short meeting, now
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Did you have a choice or two on wallpaper?
<mr_pouit> yeah, the one from knome, and possibly a second one, with a man flying with an umbrella
<mr_pouit> (I don't have the url right now)
<charlie-tca> I see the umbrella one
<mr_pouit> and the packaging/dev report, nothing much: uploaded new greybird, fixed a few default settings' issues, and blacklisted a few indicators in xfce4-indicator (e.g. indicator-appmenu, we don't want it)
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<mr_pouit> oh, also fixed a crash in xfce4-terminal, and patched xfce4-settings to solve the long standing bugs wrt sticky keys
<charlie-tca> even better
<mr_pouit> I have to leave now, maybe I'll make it on time ;-)
<ochosi> ah, one note on the reboot/logout issue: it also happens with the logout-window that is called from the menu
<ochosi> so it's really something independent
<ochosi> not depending on the session-menu or any othre panel plugin
<charlie-tca> but does it happen if you remove session menu completely, and use the action buttons ?
<ochosi> it does
<Sysi> happened to me
<charlie-tca> All my restart/shutdown issues disappeared with session menu, and they were there no matter what else I did
<charlie-tca> <mterry> Hello!  I'm doing some work on indicator-datetime, and it's preference dialog now covers the same functionality as time-admin.  It also has controls for indicator-datetime.  So for Ubuntu the Product, I want to not have time-admin, but I'm assuming it would still be useful for xubuntu?  Do you guys use indicator-datetime?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: ^ ^
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 10 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<micahg> charlie-tca: aren't you an hour early?
<ochosi> yeah, just thought the same :)
<charlie-tca> That's wrong, isn't it?
<charlie-tca> huh
<micahg> charlie-tca: date -u
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 70 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<micahg> :)
<charlie-tca> Sorry for the confusion
<charlie-tca> So, If I held the meeting an hour early, can I make it a shorter meeting?
<knome> no, we'll file an appeal to the community council :P
<charlie-tca> Maybe you would make it if it is earlier?
<charlie-tca> hm, appears Technical board gets the room first
<knome> doesn't really matter. i shouldn't be here now either, but i'm forced to work with inkscape on windows 2000
<cody-somerville> knome, http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=4064
<knome> yeah, ETA 2 week starting next week.. in the canonical schedule that means it's ready 2014!
<charlie-tca> looks like a good thing to me
<cody-somerville> yea, lets be positive for once even if knome might be right :P
<charlie-tca> knome might be wrong, and it will happen before natty releases, too!
<cody-somerville> \o/
<knome> charlie-tca, can we move the wp issue to first on the agenda??
<charlie-tca> I can put it after the old business
<knome> better than nothing, i guess
<knome> A draft for Xubuntu Natty wallpaper including green and blue colors blurred so the wallpaper stays on the background. Designed to work well with the Greybird theme.
<knome> errr
<knome> http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<charlie-tca> Why did that get under emunkki instead of in the pool as it's own submission?
<charlie-tca> How many different places do we have submissions for this?
<charlie-tca> I should be able to look at http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/pool/ and see every submitted wallpaper, it seems that is not possible?
 * micahg is missing the title bar now
<knome> charlie-tca, it *is* submitted to the pool, just reload the page
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<knome> charlie-tca, that's just how flickr is.
<knome> charlie-tca, it first shows the author when you go to any photo page
<charlie-tca> oh, I am sorry
<knome> np
<charlie-tca> Heads up, I am proposing we put the top 5 wallpapers in backgrounds, for the users to have for the entire release
<micahg> anyone lose their title bar in the latest updates?
<charlie-tca> what title bar, in the windows?
<micahg> yep
<knome> charlie-tca, okay for me, but we still need a default ;]
<micahg> I have the menus, but no title bar now
<charlie-tca> micahg: Alt+F2, xfwm4 &
<Sysi> & is not actually needed with xfrun4
<micahg> charlie-tca: ah, thanks, you know what happened
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> probably had all windows that were open at shutdown piled on top of each other in workspace 1, too
<micahg> was playing with unity 2d
<charlie-tca> micahg: I get that everytime I restart with the "session menu" installed in the panel
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 10 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> I got it right this time, didn't I?
<knome> yup
<knome> though it was 9 minutes
<knome> ;)
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> but I usually start one minute late
<charlie-tca> :-)
<knome> charlie-tca, suggestion: if we get to choose the five best, let's upload those and leave artists one week to finish off the designs and let's decide the default one week from now?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-11
<charlie-tca> hm, midori added an option to import bookmarks in html, is there any way to export bookmarks in firefox 4.0 ?
<charlie-tca> never mind, found the option to export them
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<knome> hey charlie-tca. latest draft of my wall at http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/nattywall/draft3e.png (getting close to final)
<knome> decided to add the treeline after adding the stripes since those looked really lonely.
<charlie-tca> If you get to completely the revise the artwork, then there was no point asking the rest of the artists to waste their time, was there?
<knome> it is not completely revised, the background is completely the same and the touches are really subtle
<charlie-tca> I see no requests for artwork for ocelot, honestly. Just make your last minute drawing for it and that will be the winner
<knome> and you did propose sunrise/rays yourself.
<knome> right, so one can not really finish off the design?
<knome> what did you think i was going to do with a blurred color background?
<charlie-tca> well, either you are very well liked or people really liked the blurred background, right?
<knome> whatever. i don't think arguing about this is going to help xubuntu the least bit.
<knome> i'll bring my revised version to the next meeting and people can judge themselves if it has changed too much.
<charlie-tca> and I don't think it is fair for you to ask all of us to comment on the changes at this time
<charlie-tca> The rest of the artists do not have that advantage
<knome> i didn't ask you for comments
<knome> err, sorry
<knome> #xubuntu-devel is an open channel
<knome> they do
<knome> i have to go now
<knome> if you have nothing positive to say, please leave it unsaid this time as well
<knome> Thank you.
<charlie-tca> Then don't ask to have me look at unfinished artwork
<ochosi> if anyone feels like laughing a bit, take a look at how well the resize-grip integrates in ubuntu's terminal: http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/TXo8XQ0oskI/AAAAAAAADb4/UEoMiCmXG0I/borderless-ambiance.png
<ochosi> (yes it's the hideous grey square in the lower right corner)
<cody-somerville> ochosi, that looks unintentional, lol.
<ochosi> cody-somerville: :) it's not easy to theme those beasts, but at least for xfce4-term i have succeded ;)
<cody-somerville> \o/
<ochosi> micahg: say, can you teach me some xul magic? (or pass me on to someone who can)
<ochosi> micahg: to be more specific: there's a lightning gtk-bug i'd like to fix
<micahg> ochosi: you might want to check if it's fixed in trunk first
<micahg> ochosi: you can chat with chrisccoulson in #ubuntu-mozillateam
<ochosi> micahg: ok, well i'm not sure it's something that has to be fixed upstream, but to be quick: it breaks all dark themes...
<micahg> pushing fixes upstream == good :)
<ochosi> sure, but possibly it can only be fixed in the respective gtk themes
<ochosi> but anyway, i'll check in with chriscoulson :)
<ochosi> thanks micahg 
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-12
<knome> charlie-tca, you therE?
<PsynoKhi0> hey
<PsynoKhi0> hi
<ochosi> hi
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-13
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<knome> charlie-tca, re: the conversation about wallpaper changes: sorry to say it, but i think the argument had more to do with personal issues than the actual wallpaper changing. i'm trying to stay objective, and i understand the new version was a clear departure from the original proposal. however, without those changes, i really can't see how one could have improved the wall, thus rendering the one week of time to finish off the design useless.
<charlie-tca> The conversion has to do with insisting on placing it here for reviews
<knome> i'm sorry then if i did show anything in advance then!
<charlie-tca> there is no other reason to have it announced here than to have it looked at
<knome> the reason was to tell you before that i had made some notable changes, and i wanted you to seem them
<knome> honestly, there is nothing stopping from other artists to come up here and show the improved versions as well
<knome> and without feedback, i don't think artists can do much to improve their work
<charlie-tca> other than the belief that if 28 artists do that, it would not be so good?
<knome> i'm not sure if you want us to discuss the changes in the artwork/themes here or not?
<charlie-tca> That feed back is why there was a lengthy period to do your design.
<charlie-tca> I never would want every artist submitting a design to come here and ask for direct feedback, especially when there is an open invitation to submit artwork
<knome> sure. but i also proposed the 1 week added length to be able to gather even more feedback
<charlie-tca> Actually, you proposed that to allow yourself time to do what you put off for months
<knome> i'm sorry, but again i think this is getting personal
<knome> let's try to be objective
<knome> by what means is the other artist not able to come here and ask for feedback?
<knome> why isn't artists allowed to ask for feedback (or just plainly show progress), since it's only xubuntu who is gaining on improvement?
<knome> does somebody lose something, if artists try to make their designs as good as possible?
<knome> how does it differ if i ask #shimmer and 100 other friends on how to improve the design from asking here?
<charlie-tca> Why don't you do it the way the other artists did it? As in the community artwork areas?
<knome> i didn't know it was forbidden to work on irc
<knome> i didn't know you didn't want to hear about changes i did.
<knome> if it's about that, i'm sorry to have told you i did changes, seriously.
<knome> if i do more changes, i'm sure not to tell you.
<knome> is that what you are striving for?
<knome> charlie-tca, ?
<charlie-tca> discussion is over
<knome> i'm sorry if i broke the rules somehow
<knome> i'm also sorry, but the situation and the tension between you and me won't get better, if you childishly decline to discuss anything with me.
<charlie-tca> okay
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-05
<micahg> knome: we can blacklist zeitgeist on the images if we don't want it
<ochosi> pleia2: sorry, haven't really caught up with all my holiday-email yet. i logged in successfully and the page looks good to me!
<knome> micahg, do we want to blacklist it?
<ochosi> i think we don't use zeitgeist anywhere
<ochosi> not sure why it's a recommend of USC (maybe it uses it for the history?)
<knome> probably, one should look
<ochosi> seems like we can't specifically theme lightdm's gtk-greeter :(
<ochosi> so i guess we're stuck with what we have at the moment (which is quite ugly imo)
<baizon> agree
<baizon> it really is ugly :)
 * micahg still needs to upload the new version of that
<ochosi> the greeter?
<ochosi> micahg: ^
<micahg> yes
<ochosi> are there any essential changes to it? because i'm trying to theme it atm and it doesn't work
<micahg> idk
<micahg> ochosi: https://code.launchpad.net/~lightdm-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk, 1.1.4 or later should get uploaded some time this week
<ochosi> ok, i'm looking at that now
<ochosi> micahg: ping
<micahg> ochosi: pong
<ochosi> micahg: hey again
<ochosi> i wanted to ask whether we ship gmusicbrowser1.1.9 from upstream in precise atm or whether there are the shimmer-patches applied?
<ochosi> cause the way things are at the moment i think we can simply ship upstream's 1.1.9 and put gmbrc.default (our configuration file) into xubuntu-default-settings
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: hi
<micahg> ochosi: we ship gmbrc.default in gmusicbrowser as Debian picked up that change from us
<leo-unglaub> hey guys :)
<leo-unglaub> grÃ¼Ã gott ochosi 
<ochosi> micahg: oh, i see. so we don't even have a delta with them then...
<ochosi> micahg: but other than that no more special xubuntu patches in 1.1.9, right?
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: soo, i was away for holidays, do you still feel like hacking on xubuntu? :p
<micahg> ochosi: http://patch-tracker.debian.org/package/gmusicbrowser/1.1.9-1
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: sure...i am still working on it...i was a little interupted by a visit in the hospital
<leo-unglaub> but it goes forward
<ochosi> micahg: ok, thanks. thing is: in gmbrc.default there's currently one line missing ("PLUGIN_ALBUMINFO: 1"), so i have to report a bug in debian now?
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: oh, sorry to hear. hope it was nothing major
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: what are you working on atm again?
<leo-unglaub> "just" a bornout..
<ochosi> boreout or burnout?
<leo-unglaub> burnout
<ochosi> oh, ok, wasn't sure, your typo was ambiguous
<leo-unglaub> aber after 4 days in the hospital i think i am fine again
<ochosi> hmm, that's bad, do you feel better already?
<ochosi> right, good to hear
<leo-unglaub> well, maybe it was a sign...after 4 years without holidays....
<knome> pleia2, ?
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: can you really fix 4 years in 4 days? :)
<leo-unglaub> nope, but there is no more time...my boss needs me
<leo-unglaub> and my other open source projects ne3ed me to
<micahg> ochosi: might get it fixed faster :), I still need to get my alioth credentials in order
<pleia2> knome: hm?
<knome> pleia2, just pull together a screenshot-page. we can link to it easily with no modifications to the code whatsoever :)
<pleia2> knome: ok, I'll work on that this evening, any feedback on the official artwork page I emailed last week? (ochosi said good)
<knome> pleia2, urgh, have forgotten it, but will check it right now
<knome> pleia2, that's okay, but what if we migrate to a new logo ?:P
<pleia2> knome: we'll update it when we go to the new logo
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> can't upload SVGs to wordpress, annoyingly
<knome> we can fix that though
<pleia2> with a plugin
<knome> well, with four lines of code :P
<leo-unglaub> wah, i just have to say it....i hate mono
<baizon> indeed
<leo-unglaub> i hate those "you can type what you want and the compiler is trying everything possible himself"
<knome> pleia2, is there any reason to hold back on the website updates, including the logo and allowing svg's?
<pleia2> knome: not unless we wanted to do "woo, fancy unveiling refresh for 12.04 release!"
<knome> mmh.
<knome> it's still just a minor refresh
<knome> oh well, updated logo, but...
<knome> still, it's the same website
<pleia2> well, changing the logo is kinda a big deal
<knome> sure.
<pleia2> no reason to wait, but I think we should still say it's tied to release, it's the new logo for 12.04
<pleia2> maybe do a blog post about it and the default wallpaper
<knome> maybe with beta2?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> okay, i'll prepare a blog article
<pleia2> \o/
<pleia2> and we'll wait to publish the new artwork page on the website until we have the new logos there (and on the wiki)
<knome> yup
<knome> that could go with the beta2
<knome> pleia2, http://xubuntu.org/?p=518&preview=true
<pleia2> knome: great!
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-06
<pleia2> knome: screenshots http://xubuntu.org/?page_id=534&preview=true (not published, need to be logged in to see)
<Unit193> Doh... I can't view then.
<pleia2> pretty much the same screenshots as on the front page, but bigger ;)
<knome> Unit193, you can. go to xubuntu.org/wp-admin and you should be able log in with ubuntu SSO.
<knome> (anyone on the xubuntu-team on LP should be)
<knome> pleia2, btw, in the recent updates, the site will be locked to a minimun width of 980 - that means that you should be able to insert content up to 600px without having to worry about it overlapping the sidebar
<Unit193> 0_o Well...
<knome> pleia2, so to say, we could use bigger shots in that page
<knome> pleia2, i also set the "large" size to 600x1200 to accommodate this...
<ochosi> seems like the zeitgeist-recommend from UCS is not really necessary for it to work normally (even the history function seems to work ok without it)
 * ochosi no like sean davis, he's reporting so many bugs today :/
<ochosi> gah, abiword also changes the mouse-cursor
<ochosi> what the hell is wrong with those people!
<Unit193> ochosi: Not only that, but this "Simon SteinbeiÃ" person too... ;)
<ochosi> Unit193: hehe
<Unit193> Did you happen to get the link to the fork of your theme? It's not really the best, but it does exist nontheless.
<ochosi> nope, where is it?
<Unit193> https://github.com/daz4126/Blackbird/ It's.... one way to go with it.
<ochosi> pff, that's just a fork of the initial version of blackbird
<ochosi> it's extremely incomplete
<ochosi> just a recoloring of greybird
<Unit193> Aye, it's sure not complete.
<mr_pouit> there's not additional commit?
<ochosi> there are four or so, but mainly tiny tweaks and a different xfwm theme
<mr_pouit> ah, in the blue branch, not master
<ochosi> maybe i should contact the guy and ask him whether he wants to contribute
<ochosi> yup
<Unit193> Right, was just pointing out that it exists, never figured it'd be of much help. (I have that running on one, and a modidied shimmer one here.)
<ochosi> hm, i see
 * micahg wonders if our themes got hacked with the rest of github
<knome> huh?
<micahg> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/uochHK5DvWc/github-hacked
<knome> is pavucontrol seeded by default?
<knome> and is there any reason not to, if not
<knome> what's the image size situation?
<micahg> no, we didn't need it before
<jandrusk> Have they published any formal reports as to when the flaw will be patched/fixed?
<knome> jandrusk, what flaw?
<micahg> jandrusk: github's already been fixed
<jandrusk> I guess my question is, do they know backdoors have not been placed within the system since it has been at risk?
<micahg> \o/ we win, xfce 4.10 release after precise release, new date 4/28 :)
<pleia2> :)
<baizon> hehe
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-07
<knome> mr_pouit, is the thunar slow-first-load problem fixed for precise?
<ScottL> knome, i think i noticed that it was (thunar slow-first-load problem fixed)
<ochosi> knome, ScottL: i don't think it's fixed upstream. the only reason it might appear fixed is because the gvfs component for browsing the network are missing
<ochosi> (but i'd suggest asking jannis for clarity)
<mr_pouit> not fixed upstream, no
<mr_pouit> maybe something changed in gvfs though
<mr_pouit> (and won't be fixed for 4.10 either if the new sidepane isn't finished)
<micahg> mr_pouit: please tell me they'll switch to gio for the gtk3 port
<mr_pouit> thunar already uses gio :p
<micahg> oh, right
<mr_pouit> (I disabled the bug tracker for the xubuntu-artwork project, people should report bugs to the ubuntu package instead, really)
<micahg> mr_pouit: can you leave a note on the project homepage to that regard if you haven't already?
<mr_pouit> I tried to add something on the bug page, but it doesn't show up when you disable bug tracking =]
<mr_pouit> okay, I added something to the description
<micahg> thanks
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ah so that's why all the artwork bugs were changed recently :)
<ochosi> (and i don't think there is even a slight chance the new sidepane will be included in 4.10)
<mr_pouit> yep
<leo-unglaub> hi guys!
<ochosi> hey leo-unglaub 
<leo-unglaub> hi ochosi
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: you're still working on the thunar-shares stuff?
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: no, thats done
<leo-unglaub> i send the new version to the original maintainer
<leo-unglaub> and now i am waiting for feedback
<leo-unglaub> currently i am rewriting the task manager
<leo-unglaub> for my own needs
<ochosi> what exactly are you doing with it?
<leo-unglaub> i am adding some expert options
<leo-unglaub> like, monitoring the io access for some processes
<leo-unglaub> or a quick filter
<leo-unglaub> and somethink like that
<leo-unglaub> input is always welcome
<ochosi> quick filter sounds less like an expert option, but more like an actual improvement :)
<ochosi> yes, actually i have a request for a simple patch
<ochosi> the bars on top that show cpu and ram usage
<ochosi> those could show the mem in MB also (not just %)
<ochosi> also, the current UI doesn't make it clear that one bar is for cpu, the other is for ram
<ochosi> you have to show the tooltip for that
<leo-unglaub> re, well, not everything is an expert option :)
<leo-unglaub> the cip and ram display is funny anyway because by looking an it you see nothing relevant
<leo-unglaub> there is no display how much ram you have or somethink like it
<ochosi> exactly
<ochosi> it could be interesting to have the graph, but it would need some enhancements to be really usable
<leo-unglaub> well, the good thing is: there is nothing my vim can't do...the only limitation is me *g*
<ochosi> (actually those enhancements should be easy to do, the information must be available somewhere there)
<ochosi> :)
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: the biggest problem for me is to know what the original maintainer want with this programm
<leo-unglaub> because some thinks he did for a reason
<leo-unglaub> example from 1.0.0 changelog: - Replaced progress bars against monitors
<ochosi> easiest way is to join #xfce-dev and ask m8t personally ;)
<leo-unglaub> :) sure...but that takes time
<knome> leo-unglaub, let me type so you can copy-paste:
<knome> /join #xfce-dev
<knome> m8t, hello
<knome> leo-unglaub, ^ there you go ^__^
<leo-unglaub> lol
<leo-unglaub> thanks for that *g*
<leo-unglaub> i am @work right now and my bos is here...so i have to face "real company work" *g*
 * knome disregards his boss
<knome> oh, wait...
 * knome just forgot he's an entrepreneur
<knome> oops! i got caught
<leo-unglaub> lol, i am happy to be an imployee
<leo-unglaub> don't worry about money...don't worry about customers
<knome> yeah, easier to not get caught
<knome> yeah, but worry about bosses and all that stuff :)
<knome> and as much time for FOSS as you want, whenever you want :)
<knome> well, almost ;)
<leo-unglaub> well, worrying is the wrong word...i am the technical director here...so technical i can do what i want...but...my boss knows that irc normaly is not work *g*
<knome> you should tell him it is essential to your well-being, and without you feeling well, everything will go down
<knome> madnick, ?
<knome> madnick, want to use a while to fix the plymouth text?
<Unit193> Bug 830464?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 830464 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Plymouth theme progress indicator should be circular" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830464
<madnick> knome: I looked at it, there is 2 ways of going at it
<knome> Unit193, do you think "progress indicator" == "text" ?
<knome> madnick, shoot! :)
<madnick> Simply using the latest message, or creating a buffer for all messages and make the label bigger and put that there
<madnick> Its only this specific message
<madnick> But
<madnick> If it changes along the line
<Unit193> knome: Ofc! Haven't you used wget? ;)  (No coffee/tea/drink here yet, need it)
<knome> madnick, last message is okay, but what's the thing with "keys:" -message? :/
<knome> madnick, will that fix it
<madnick> It will fix it
<knome> actually, would it be possible to have like, say, last three lines of text?
<madnick> yup
<knome> that would be optimal
<madnick> ill just create a buffer for that specific message
<knome> thanks
<madnick> message-.type
<knome> :)
<madnick> while we are at it
<madnick> is there anything more in that?
<knome> yes?
<knome> well, i fixed the images
<madnick> okay
<knome> i mean, i uploaded new images
<knome> madnick, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/precise/revision/159 if you want to review
<knome> cleaned it up a bit
<knome> and apart from the messages, no, i don't think there's much that needs touching
<knome> should be fine
<madnick> basically, all i need to do is create a var for buffering, and call that Image.Text(var, ... however, im not sure about the line breaks etc
<madnick> I will see what happens with the NL code
<madnick> maybe limit the buffer to 3
<knome> mh
<knome> is there an easy way to test the changes?
<madnick> yeah ill setup a vm
<madnick> and try it there
<knome> okay, thanks
<knome> do you think it would be doable today?
<madnick> maybe, i need to download a new image and setup the vm
<knome> sure, no hurry. just wondering
<knome> i'm monitoring irc more or less tonight, so if you have anything to ask, just ping me
<knome> (or better, just ask and i'll reply when i come back)
<madnick> hehe, if you feel i am being slow, please remind me, i have a lot on my mind :)
<knome> i can ping you in a few hours if you want
<madnick> that be cool
<knome> okay
 * knome is afk
<knome> madnick, ping, and sorry, it's 1 hour late ;)
<madnick> :) i got the dev environment setup, but im going to bed, ill be up at like 8 tomorrow, ill try to send the patch before noon
<knome> madnick, okay, good night
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-08
<TheMouldyMarsBar> Nobodys here
<knome> madnick, morning
<madnick> knome: imo, the best course of action is to display the message entirely, this is due to the alternative being dynamically generate new labels, which I feel might not be the best idea given different screen resolutions
<knome> madnick, okay, that works
<madnick> knome: could you link the new code you had, so i can use that for testing instead of the original
<knome> madnick, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/precise/revision/160
<ochosi> knome: about the lightdm-workitem: i think we oughta put that to blocked because robert_ancell never answered my email and i'm not sure what we want is even possible at this stage with the sample greeter
<knome> mmh, k
<knome> ochosi, or postpone?
<ochosi> we could set it to blocked until the UI freeze (if that hasn't taken place already) and then postpone it
<knome> ui freeze gone already
<ochosi> ok :)
<knome> that's why mr_pouit whined me about logo chaneg
<ochosi> then we could say we wait till the end of the week and then postpone it
<knome> ochosi, we need that one change for the elementary-xfce too
<ochosi> i.e. next monday is the deadline for the login
<knome> the app menu icon
<ochosi> already pushed
<knome> oh?
<knome> really?
<ochosi> you don't seem to read the push-messages from github closely enough ;)
<knome> no
<knome> :P
<knome> where did you get the logo from?
<ochosi> i already asked mr_pouit for testing
<ochosi> it
<ochosi> 's places/48/distributor-logo.svg
<ochosi> so it'll be scaled down to 16px
<ochosi> but that happens in the panel-appmenu as well
<knome> huh?
<ochosi> so i don't see a problem with that
<knome> are we talking about the same thing?
<knome> the new logo as the new app menu icon?
<ochosi> no, i didn't add that, i just fixed the bug for the xfdesktop-appmenu :}
<knome> yeah
<knome> there ya go :P
<ochosi> i wasn't sure how you want to proceed with the new logo
<ochosi> one way is just pushing it
<knome> we should schedule a meeting
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i think that'd be best
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-09
<GridCube> ETA to meeting?
<pleia2> I don't know if that's been decided
<GridCube_> mmm i don't know if i got an answer while my system went down
<Unit193> "I don't know if that's been decided"
<GridCube_> oh i see
<GridCube_> okay, well then i think i cant participate again :(
<GridCube_> see you later
<ZardoZ> Upgrade from Xubuntu 10.04 to 12.04 beta doesn't work here. Is this a bug? Or something else?
<Unit193> "Doesn't work", can you explain?
<ZardoZ> Of course, after starting running update-manager -d the upgrade process stops with the error "can't calculate upgrade".
<Unit193> Try `do-release-upgrade -d`, may tell us more info.
<ZardoZ> OK
<ZardoZ> running the command now.
<ZardoZ> Same error.
<Unit193> Yes, but more info?
<ZardoZ> An unresolvable problem occurred while calculating the upgrade:
<ZardoZ> E:Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be
<ZardoZ> caused by held packages
<ZardoZ> What info do you want to know?
<Unit193> Seems you or a program marked a package as held.
<Unit193> !pinning
<ubottu> pinning is an advanced feature that APT can use to prefer particular packages over others. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto
<ZardoZ> haven't pinned anything afaik, but will check.
<ZardoZ> (i am a very experienced debian user)
<ZardoZ> other causes the command gives me:
<ZardoZ> This can be caused by:
<ZardoZ> * Upgrading to a pre-release version of Ubuntu
<ZardoZ> * Running the current pre-release version of Ubuntu
<ZardoZ> * Unofficial software packages not provided by Ubuntu
<ZardoZ> Will also double check my 3rd party repositories.
<Unit193> Aye, I don't know for sure, but may also want to check with Pangolin support over in #ubuntu+1
<ZardoZ> OK. I will first manually disable everything in /etc/apt/sources.list/
<ZardoZ> same error after disabling every 3rd party sources. 
<Unit193> I do not know.
<Unit193> Never done an LTS > LTS.
<knome> i'm not sure if you can update from LTS to LTS-beta
<knome> that wouldn't make much sense, would it?
<ZardoZ> Me neither :-) 
<knome> you want long term support, but you're installing a beta version??
<Unit193> You'd have to test it somehow, but...
<ZardoZ> Well, this isn't a production machine.
<knome> i understand, but that was from the packaging/releasing POV
<knome> those who want to skip the "normal" releases probably want to skip the beta's too
<ZardoZ> I need some extra functionality present in 12.04.
<ZardoZ> But I have to admit, it's also a test.
<ZardoZ> Anyway: at which moment will a upgrade be officialy possible? After the release? Or when the RC is there?
<knome> ZardoZ, i believe it's after the release
<ZardoZ> OK.
<knome> and there aren't really RC's, just betas
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<ZardoZ> suggenstion of #ubuntu+1 is to wait a few hours. It might work then. Otherwise I will wait.
<ZardoZ> till the official release
<knome> yup, good luck
<ChristopherNg> hello
<ChristopherNg> a couple of post grad folks here, looking at some kind of ERP for ubuntu based distros.
<ChristopherNg> want to know what you folks think of this project, we have a choice, but this is the one that seems to have caught our interest.
<knome> ChristopherNg, you mean, creating and ERP application for ubuntu based distros?
<ChristopherNg> yes
<ChristopherNg> whats your feeling about something like that, could it work or will it fail from the drawing board itself?
<knome> i don't see a reason why it wouldn't work. i don't see how that should be specifically directed to ubuntu based distros
<knome> i mean, it's just an application, right?
<knome> have you looked if there is any projects that is doing ERP in the FOSS field?
<ChristopherNg> no actually didnt think there would be much interest in that..
<ChristopherNg> I could be wrong, but basically..
<knome> interest in what?
<ChristopherNg> we are looking at an erp for smes
<ChristopherNg> SME = Small, Medium, Enterprises
<knome> yes
<knome> but interest in what?
<knome> i mean, you lost me
<astraljava> This is one seriously confusing conversation for sure.
<ChristopherNg> i meant interest in erp for ubuntu or linux in general sorry
<knome> no interest in such a product from end-users?
<knome> why not.
<knome> if it's good, i'm sure it'll raise interest
<knome> astraljava, hey :)
<astraljava> o/
<ChristopherNg> not sure
<Unit193> Howdy, java.
<ChristopherNg> its just the culture
<knome> ChristopherNg, but i don't know ubuntu really relates to this?
<ChristopherNg> basically, its an open source erp for smes that we want made available via launch or repos..
<ChristopherNg> want to know what you think the reception to something like that will be..
<knome> ChristopherNg, yeah. so is is *ready* ?
<knome> or not..
<ChristopherNg> no we still trying to see if this is feasible and if it would catch on and testing the waters.
<knome> there's a possibility to include any app in the ubuntu repositories
<knome> and i'm sure that will go for the rest of the distros too
<knome> and i'm pretty sure there is people, who'd like to use something like that on linux
<ChristopherNg> yes thats true but other ERPS like SAP are not open source etc
<astraljava> There are lots of OS ERP's already, so do you have some sort of idea how yours would detach from the crowd?
<astraljava> Well, actually I'm just relying on search engines here,  but I kinda trust google on that. :)
<ChristopherNg> well basically, ours is aimed at SMES. 
<ChristopherNg> and open source.
<ChristopherNg> not to mention its a development project for our masters.
<ChristopherNg> so if there is something like this out there that is opensource, that would be even better as we can see the strength and weakness of that and build our own accordingly
<knome> or help some other project to grow
<astraljava> Yes well, search terms "sme open source erp" bring out lots of relevant hits.
<astraljava> So I'm kinda bound to repeat my question.
<astraljava> Ahh... well, being a study, yeah that's reason enough.
<knome> i'm off
<knome> see you folks later
<ChristopherNg> Q/
<knome> or if you'd prefer to be called "pops" or "rocks" or even "indies" or "raps", those then
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-10
<knome> madnick, how's the plymouth stuff?
<knome> astraljava, you had a HP laptop? what wifi? i just installed xubuntu on wife's laptop, and with the broadcom wifi, i needed to use the b43 driver instead of the STA driver, which got installed by default..
<astraljava> knome: I'll get back to you about that later, gotta run now.
<madnick> knome: pretty much solid, the "problem" I have is that, while I can test it using my own message sequences, I cannot test it using VBox and get the real messages, since I don't see the screen at boot
<knome> madnick, then just push it for others to test
<madnick> okay
<ochosi> hey there
<astraljava> knome: What was that again? My freenode server rebooted, and using SSL reconnects in a weird way, and thus I /quit and /connect'ed, thus losing backlog.
<knome> 14:19  knome: astraljava, you had a HP laptop? what wifi? i just installed xubuntu on wife's laptop, and with the broadcom wifi, i needed to use the b43 driver instead of the STA driver, which got installed by default..
<knome> astraljava, ^ that
<astraljava>   *-network
<astraljava>        description: Wireless interface
<astraljava>        product: BCM4313 802.11b/g/n Wireless LAN Controller
<knome> i have bcm4312.
<astraljava> configuration: broadcast=yes driver=brcmsmac driverversion=3.0.0-16-generic firmware=N/A latency=0 link=no multicast=yes wireless=IEEE 802.11bgn
<astraljava> brcmsmac
<astraljava> Huh, nice names for these drivers.
<knome> heh
<knome> pleia2, you there?
<TheMouldyMarsBar> knome: hardly anyone comes here
<knome> TheMouldyMarsBar, wrong. many people come here regularly. sometimes they just lurk.
<TheMouldyMarsBar> *hardly anyone CHATS here
<knome> well, that's wrong too. people chat here when they need to discuss about development
<TheMouldyMarsBar> Most just go to #xubuntu
<knome> now that we have all freezes ongoing, there's not much to communicate about, except some bugs
<knome> well, #xubuntu is for the support. if you need support, that's the correct channel.
<knome> we don't specifically discourage random chatter here now and then, but usually people take that to #xubuntu-offtopic or other channels
<pleia2> knome: hey
<pleia2> no response yet from the trademarks folks :\
<knome> pleia2, umph.
<knome> pleia2, i was thinking the alternate disc still
<pleia2> knome: to drop it?
<knome> pleia2, well yeah. isn't there any other way to achieve those certain things?
<pleia2> use server alt and install xubuntu-desktop :)
<knome> do you think that's something we shouldn't tell people to do?
<knome> i mean, testing the alt vs. not testing
<knome> and maintaining vs. not
<knome> those are the things
<pleia2> oh, that, we will keep the alt?
<pleia2> gotcha
<pleia2> what is the blocker to testing the alt?
<knome> is it worth it?
<knome> nothing really
<knome> time and resources
<knome> if we didn't have alt, we'd have more tests on desktop
<pleia2> ok, I think desktop has to take precedence
<knome> the other choice is to drop anything in the alt-tests to "run-once"
<pleia2> I can't help with hardware testing (no spare hardware) but I can help with virtual testing of alt
<knome> whatever the case, i think we'd benefit from more testing
 * pleia2 has been meaning to help with testing more anyway
<knome> and actually reporting and discussing issues sooner
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> i'm not really pro-drop-alt
<pleia2> I love alt
<knome> but i'm just wondering if we have the resources for it
<pleia2> yeah :\
<pleia2> will you be around for a couple hours?
<knome> we should maybe take a poll or so in the website on how many people will use alt
<knome> probably yeah
<knome> as long as my back can take it, yeah
<pleia2> ok, I am going to go grab my lunch and then I'll sit down to look at testing stuff
<knome> okay, sure
<knome> bon appetit :)
<pleia2> I did testing before when it was a wiki page list of tests ;) but I haven't used the iso tracker yet
<knome> ah
<pleia2> oh, I'll start the daily downloads now
<knome> well, that's pretty cool
<knome> it's really straightforward
<knome> and i think just promoting testing could get us easily a few people doing tests now-and-then
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> but of course, we need continuous contributions :/
<pleia2> once I figure out how to do it, I'll write that blog post I've been meaning to write
<knome> mm-hmm
<pleia2> preference to testing 64 vs 32?
<knome> ping me when you get back from lunch
<knome> i think it depends on what has been tested
<pleia2> and is there a daily alt?
<knome> looks like we have 0 tests on everything for 20120310
<pleia2> ok
<knome> yup
<pleia2> ah, /daily vs /daily-live
<pleia2> ok, wgets going, I'll ping you when I return :)
<knome> good
<ochosi> knome: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7381
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by bugzilla.xfce.org: HTTP Error 404: Not Found (http://bugzilla.xfce.org/xml.cgi?id=7381)
<ochosi> unfortunately it's a bit too late for precise, but for +1 we could make use of this
<knome> hmm
<knome> right
<ochosi> (if you remember the appmenu-button proposal we worked on)
<knome> yeah, i do
<knome> do you have any opinion on testing?
<ochosi> do you mean anything concretely?
<ochosi> (haven't had time to read the backlog yet and am about to watch a movie)
<knome> astraljava, ?
<astraljava> Sorry.
<knome> for what? :P
<knome> when was the QA meeting again?
<astraljava> I think it was on Wednesdays.
<knome> "was" ?
<astraljava> Haven't participated lately anymore.
<knome> right
<knome> ubuntu wiki sucks
<pleia2> knome: back
<knome> pleia2, mmh :)
<knome> i just tweeted our next community meeting
 * knome gets some tea to drink
<pleia2> so https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Procedures is the page charlie-tca gave me 
<knome> just log into http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<knome> i can guide you through
<pleia2> done
<knome> so, on the first page you have the milestones
<knome> you want precise daily, of course
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> when you click that, you'll have a list of products
<knome> you can slim it down by unchecking most stuff on the left pane "filters"
<knome> you probably want to leave "upgrade" and "xubuntu" (and statuses "untested" and "partial")
<pleia2> cool
<knome> when you've done that scroll to the bottom
<knome> you can see the xubuntu tests
<knome> alt amd64, alt i386, desktop amd64, desktop i386
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> let's say you want to test desktop amd64
<knome> click that
<knome> now you can see all the testcases
<pleia2> let's say i386, since I actually got that one ;)
<knome> hehe, okay ;)
<pleia2> ok
<knome> there are the testcase-specific results
<knome> passed/failed/running, and the bugs column will show links to any bugs that are found
<knome> for a working example, look at the desktop amd64 beta1 tests: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/208/builds/12681/testcases
<pleia2> ah, nice
<knome> well anyway, the nicer thing
<knome> there's the download info link on top
<knome> with rsync/zsync commands
<knome> and http of course
<knome> with gpg signs and md5 checksums
<knome> ALSO
<pleia2> oh that is much better than trying to remember the cdimage link :)
<knome> you have the document icons with the tool
<knome> if you click that, you'll get the procedure for that testcase
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> now, when you start testing a testcase, you click on the testcase name
<knome> let's say live session
 * knome logs in
<knome> now you have this simple add a result -page
<knome> first, you select the outcome
<knome> then add bug #s for critical and normal bugs
<knome> and you can add a hw profile url and/or a comment, eg "vbox with 512 ram"
<knome> i don't think we're using "in progress" -result much now, but i think we could benefit from that if we ever have more testers
<pleia2> ok
<knome> that way you wouldn't start doing the same test somebody else is on
<pleia2> where does the hw profile url come from?
<knome> it can be anything
<knome> some people add a wikipage for the HW info
<pleia2> oh, like a link to a product page for your laptop?
<knome> but if you test with vbox, comment would be okay
<pleia2> ah
<knome> well, that would work as well
<knome> i don't know about it, but i suppose it's not clearly specified what that should be :)
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> but yeah, that simply is it
<knome> if you go back to the "precise daily" page, you can see the columns mandatory and run once
<knome> those will have the number of testcases run
<knome> like a good overview :)
<knome> and the bugs too
<pleia2> ok cool
<pleia2> I'll do a test and ask questions about where my bugs go ;)
<knome> again good example; http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/208/builds
<knome> well, bugs should be at LP
<knome> in the ISO tracker, you only need their numbers
<knome> and the system will fetch the rest
<pleia2> yeah, I never know what packages to file stuff against
<pleia2> so I'll just ask
<GridCube> evening
<pleia2> hey GridCube 
<knome> ah :) most probably ubiquity ;))
<GridCube> say miss pleia2 
<GridCube> :)
 * knome says: miss pleia2 
<GridCube> can i help in anything?
<pleia2> ok, so wait
<pleia2> Install (auto-resize) in Xubuntu Desktop i386 for Precise Daily links to http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/AlternateResize
<pleia2> the 64 bit links to http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/DesktopResize which I assume is correct
<knome> ah, yeah :)
<knome> most probably
 * pleia2 qas the qa
<knome> hehe
<pleia2> ah, but I see a prerequisite for that one is actually having something to resize ;)
<knome> :)=
<knome> run a different test first, then resize
<knome> that's another thing that doesn't help getting resize-test-results
<pleia2> there is all kind of strange greyness on the screen, not sure if it's just vbox weirdness
<knome> pleia2, is it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/924909 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924909 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Windows have grey traces in Ubiquity" [Medium,Confirmed]
<pleia2> I think so, http://princessleia.com/temp/xubuntu_031012.png
<pleia2> more grey happens when I move the window
<knome> yuuup!
<knome> that's it.
<pleia2> I have a background at least, not black
<pleia2> ah, someone says that
<knome> well yeah, that part is fixed
<knome> after we uploaded a wallpaper ;))
<pleia2> hehe, that helps
<pleia2> ok, so this bug still exists, do I list the bug number into day's test?
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> ok
<knome> but it's not critical
<knome> since you can still finish the testcase
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> tsk, "arch" reports i686 rather than i386
<knome> :)
<pleia2> alright, that's all done
<pleia2> thanks knome :)
<knome> no, thank you :)
 * knome switches to wife's laptop with newly installed xubuntu over windows vista \o/
<pleia2> \o/
<pleia2> the alt installer is such a pretty blue, did you guys do that?
<pleia2> the debian one is fugly (I use it /all the time/)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-11
<knome> i don't know :D
<knome> hmm, brb
<knome> ah, good, lightdm lang preference is saved per-user
<pleia2> I do love our slideshow :)
<knome> well that's good to know :)
<knome> btw, do you know anything about lightdm?
<pleia2> nope
<knome> mmh.
<knome> i was wondering if it's possible to set a "preferred" user that's always set
<knome> rather than selecting the last logged in user
<pleia2> that would be nice
<knome> enable autologin and set timeout to infinity? :P
<knome> but that's still bad. i want passwords.
<pleia2> lol
<knome> brb
 * pleia2 ponders squid proxy w/ support for .debs so at least she'd only need to download the 32 and 64-bit packages once
 * knome doesn't think greeter-hide-users is good either :(
<knome> pleia2, heh
<knome> btw, did you read between the lines before?
<pleia2> there, Install (entire disk) done for all 4 of them
<knome> after 8 years of knowing each other, i've finally converted wife to linux
<pleia2> er, I don't think so
<pleia2> oh!
<pleia2> :D
<knome> yeah!
<pleia2> ok, so I'll update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing (and http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa_bugs_testing/) this week
<knome> great :)
<pleia2> from there I'll do the blog post, which will point to them
<knome> yeah
<knome> ping me when you're about to
<knome> and i can help you with that
<pleia2> will do
<knome> thanks :)
<pleia2> ok, if I'm going to be doing multiple install tests I'm definitely going to set up that proxy
<pleia2> testing is hard on my internets :)
<knome> heh, yeah
 * knome was doing a few parallel tests too
<jarnos> Can you upgrade to 12.04 devel from 11.10?
<micahg> sure, update-manager -d (but only do this if you're willing to be a beta tester)
<jarnos> micahg, I guess I had better since 12.04 is going to be LTS and I have big performance problems with 11.10.
<jarnos> concerning X, I suppose.
<jarnos> micahg, even update-manager -d does not give me option to upgrade.
 * micahg isn't sure what to say about that
<nimrod10> hi all , how do I change the notification settings to use notify-osd instead of xfce4-notifyd ? I have them both installed on a xubuntu 11.10 system 
<knome> nimrod10, #xubuntu for support
<nimrod10> knome, I gave it a shot here as well , in #xubuntu people that responded didn't know how to do it
<knome> it's pretty much the same people here
<nimrod10> :) ok 
<astraljava> micahg: do-release-upgrade -d ?
<nimrod10> astraljava, what will that help with ? going to the devel release ?
<astraljava> nimrod10: Yes.
<knome> that conversation didn't make any sense.
<nimrod10> knome, : ) , astraljava, how will it help me going to the devel release  ?
<astraljava> knome: Question â Answer. Nevermind that the question emerged from a suggestion to another problem.
<astraljava> See, sense; made.
<nimrod10> ah ok
<knome> astraljava, "what will that help with?" "yes"
<knome> nimrod10, have you tried just uninstalling xfce4-notifyd?
<astraljava> knome: [14:06] < nimrod10 > astraljava, what will that help with ? going to the devel release ?
<knome> :P
<astraljava> knome: Again, I must urge you to pay attention.
<knome> astraljava, you too.
<knome> :)'
<nimrod10> guys nevermind , if it can't be done , it can't be done yet
 * astraljava disregards such foolish and lame attempts at being humorous.
<astraljava> *grin*
<knome> astraljava, bleh.
<astraljava> knome: Second round of interviews tomorrow.
<knome> astraljava, great! in hki?
<astraljava> Yep.
<knome> a-ha
<knome> so what's the plan?
<astraljava> I'm currently in Kotka, will go by bus sometime around noon, then fly back home in the evening.
<knome> ah, okay
<knome> so no extra time? :)
<astraljava> Not much, sadly.
<astraljava>  I didn't even know about the interview when I arrived here in the southern Finland.
<astraljava> They called me on Friday when I was already at my mom's.
<astraljava> Otherwise I might have had some.
<knome> ah :)
<knome> well, send an sms if you do. we might be in the city
<knome> i need to go prepare some food for wife now
<knome> so see you later
<astraljava> Alright, will do.
<knome> and good luck for the interviews :)
<astraljava> Cheers!
<ahcrap> hi
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-04
<knome> the player should be as invisible as possible anyway
<pleia2> ok
<knome> it's also good to have a file searching utility, but i don't think we should mention it's called catfish
<pleia2> drc: your comments are helpful, thanks :)
<knome> or tell the menu editor is called menulibre
<knome> because our marketing target audience doesn't care :)
<knome> it's cool for linux geeks...
<pleia2> ok
<knome> just my â¬0.02
<drc> pleia2: I used to do this sort of thing for a living (PSYOPs in the Army :)
<pleia2> nice!
<knome> we should focus more on the tasks than the applications anyway...
<knome> something bad happened.
<Unit193> You broke it.
<knome> yeah, probably
<knome> looked like some syncing problems
<knome> works again when i loaded from the original url
<knome> probably broke the copy in my own google drive or sth
<pleia2> google docs sucks less than other multiplayer editors, all of which suck ;)
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> the internet is not so good thing
<knome> yeah, pleia2 should come more often to scandinavia
<pleia2> yes
<knome> will get free accommodation too
<pleia2> woo, knome's couch
<knome> hehe :)
<pleia2> careful what you offer, I can work from anywhere these days
<knome> other options available as well :P
<knome> my mum has extra rooms.
<pleia2> astraljava's couch?
<pleia2> oh ok
<knome> even with beds!
<pleia2> spiffy
<knome> though i'm not sure about her english skills :D
<pleia2> XDS at knome's mom's house \o/
<knome> lawl
<knome> does the venue have to be the same where you sleep?
<knome> oh my..
<knome> that gets hard, but i can still think of few places.
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> not anybody's home, but probably organizable :P
<pleia2> if only people know what yahoos were running xubuntu
<pleia2> s/know/knew
<knome> yup.
<knome> xubuntu would probably be much more popular!
<pleia2> lol
<drc> yahoos?  then you can't work anywhere except the office.
<knome> what about the flyer content?
<pleia2> well, posting our picture on G+ didn't make us lose all our users ;)
<knome> http://instantrimshot.com/
<pleia2> someone was like "that's what I thought they'd look like" - still trying to figure out what that means :)
<pleia2> prolly we look like geeks
<knome> lol
<knome> yeah
<knome> http://instantrimshot.com/classic/?sound=rimshot
<knome> that's better url :P
<pleia2> there you go
<knome> meh.
<knome> the intro part is overlapping with the FAQ.
<knome> we're saying the same things twice
<pleia2> oh right, we were working on something
<knome> are you drunk?
<knome> the cursor movements don't make any sense
<pleia2> no, just distracted
<pleia2> oh, I think there was lag
<knome> hehe
<knome> yeah, blame google...
 * knome gets another beer
<knome> i can't stand you drunk sober!
<pleia2> :P
<pleia2> I think they answer different things, we are saying it's Ubuntu-based twice but in the FAQ we get to the core of what people are asking when they ask that question
<pleia2> I think on a printed flyer we also want URLs to be like xubuntu.org/contribute
<pleia2> rather than with http:/// blah
<Unit193> OOooh!  Pics on G+?  I should post it! :D
<pleia2> Unit193: https://plus.google.com/u/1/112064450121097287690/posts/KYt6xVAM2qp
<knome> Sean DavisOct 30, 2012
<knome> Reply
<knome> Makes me want to make it to the next UDS.  :-)ï»¿
<knome> PRICELESS!
<Unit193> Ah yeah, that one.  There was another too. :P
<Unit193> knome: Also, good luck with that one.
<knome> well it was sean who wrote that.
<knome> Jeremy DavisFeb 27, 2013
<knome> Reply
<knome> Heroesï»¿
<knome> awesome comment.
<pleia2> :)
<knome> pleia2, please look at the intro part.
<knome> it's daunting.
<Unit193> Also, there's a larger version, or better pic because I was able to get the name off the guys name tag. :P
<pleia2> Unit193: the full version is up on my flickr I think
<knome> mmh, i had some beers and other alcoholic drinks with christian on few nights
<knome> i should make sure i got those.
<Unit193> pleia2: Sounds right.
<pleia2> knome: yeah, intro is blah blah
<knome> i mean photos
<knome> ha, pleia2's flickr photostream reminded me to put back the ear buds after the visit to kitchen.
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> aha, now i found the "other" photo Unit193 talked about
<knome> it was the one "after several beers"
<knome> back to working with the flyer
<pleia2> I love that photo!
<pleia2> micahg is so cute :)
<knome> yeah, we look like we diagonally stack.
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> who wouldn't be cute after that meal he had!
<pleia2> ok, I don't know where on a flyer this intro text would go
<pleia2> do we even need it after the bold bit?
<knome> no.
<pleia2> and I think on the back of the flyer we can list all our resources
<knome> definitely
<pleia2> I don't like (standard)
<knome> it's for consideration
<knome> either keep it or lose it
<knome> i don't care
<knome> if keep it, lose the ()'s
<pleia2> hm, and I think it should be more like "What can I do with Xubuntu?"
<knome> yeah, that's better
<pleia2> "make them look like youâre actually doing something" haha
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> amagad logo
<knome> haha
<knome> lol, the logo doesn't want to move as far as i'd like it to
<pleia2> it's ok, we'll write this in a proper document format later
<knome> you got to be kidding, i thought we layed this out in gdocs
<pleia2> :P
<knome> not sure if that layout is what we want, but at least it now has the desktop image and logo
<knome> could we use one of the photo-CoF's?
<pleia2> photo?
<pleia2> I just grabbed this one from the brand resources
<knome> those quite old ones but with real people
<knome> remember those?
<pleia2> ah, maybe
<pleia2> not naked
<knome> but...
<knome> nvm.
<knome> yeah, any of them goes
<pleia2> might make it look a bit dated
<knome> what if we recolor it? :P
<pleia2> make it orange!
<knome> we should have taken a xubuntu circle of friends photo!
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/60/05/009722/ubuntu-warty-login.jpg
<knome> non-naked enough? :P
<knome> actually that was the first image i found from goole
<knome> don't blame me!
<pleia2> hahaha, nooo
<pleia2> someone brought those up during Ubucon last weekend, Jono was like "those were Mark's fault!"
<knome> :P
<knome> http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/ubuntu-people-450x300.png
<pleia2> "also brown" "ugh, yeah, shut up"
<knome> never saw this before
<pleia2> yeah, those are the ones
<knome> ha
<pleia2> it was a whole "calendar" package
<knome> :D
<knome> ok
<pleia2> http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Ubuntu_Warty_visual_theme/Image_archive
<pleia2> sad that I found it on the GF wiki x_x
<knome> wow.
<knome> yeah, i never saw those
<knome> weren't there more less-sexist photos?
<pleia2> no, it was all kind of awful
<knome> aha
<knome> then we should forget that
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> i mean
<pleia2> I wasn't serious about using them, I was making a joke about their existance!
<knome> probably not good to remind people of those photos anyway
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> the thoughts tend to go "remember when Ubuntu used people in their marketing?" "yeah, remember the naked ones!"
<knome> :D
<knome> the plain ubuntu icon is boring, though
<knome> or should one say "naked" icon
<pleia2> I don't think we need it to be non-boring
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> we want xubuntu screenshots to be the exciting part of this flyer :)
<knome> why put up the icon there anyway then?
<pleia2> it's a good association to have
<pleia2> we are a recognised flavor, good to advertise the relationship visually
<knome> even if it was one with abuse?
<knome> (the relationship)
<knome> oh well
<pleia2> :P
<knome> did we decide on a format yet?
<knome> better go with one first
<pleia2> nope
<knome> full page should be relatively easy to fit to 4-on-1 too
<pleia2> depends on how good your eyeballs are
<knome> lol
<knome> i'm not talking about simply zooming out
<pleia2> oh :)
<knome> the design is probably easier to convert to that
<knome> we probably need to drop some text at least
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> three-section would work as well if...
<pleia2> I like the three-section ones a lot
<knome> the "first" column could be simply copied thrice
<knome> that wouldn't be 4-on-1 but 3-on-1
<pleia2> they're harder to print though, anyone with a printer can print out a sheet
<pleia2> the 3-section one you really need a professional printer
<knome> unless we make it fit a standard sheet.
<pleia2> double sided, need alighnment
<pleia2> -h
<pleia2> I am getting tired
<knome> but isn't that a problem with the single sheet too, if it's 2-sided
<knome> (and why wouldn't it be)
<pleia2> you don't fold that one, so alignment isn't so critical
<knome> if we make the sides separate from others, i don't think it's critical even with a foldable
<knome> eg. just make sure text doesn't flow from side to another
<knome> then it's not too bad even if you make a mistake
<pleia2> yeah, still need to make sure margins are big enough
<knome> as long as you print on both sides, not only one
<knome> same problem with single sheets too
<knome> 1cm is quite fine for most printers
<knome> and we can make the graphics appear even in that area, if soembody has a printer that can print to the edge
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> just make sure there's nothing important
<knome> so it's a 3-fold then?
<knome> i could do some quicky drafts if we decide on a direction... O:)
<pleia2> that seems good
<knome> cool, i just created a nice template
<knome> pleia2, you still around?
<pleia2> mhmm
<knome> good
 * pleia2 working on UWN
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_flyer/3fold-draft-1.png
<knome> there's some layouting
<pleia2> pretty
<knome> ta ta
<Len-nb> knome, I was 'listening in" above and you mentioned a menulibre, I am guessing that is a joke? I have not been pleased with alacarte.
<Len-nb> Too much trouble with supporting people who use it.
<knome> Len-nb, we'll definitely have menulibre. the point was that we don't need to mention the application names for people who don't most probably understand the difference of Unity and Xfce.
<micahg> pleia2: do I have time to get something in UWN still?
<Len-nb> knome, my interest is in something better than alacarte
<Len-nb> For studio
<knome> Len-nb, like menulibre?
<Len-nb> I haven't seen it, where would I look?
<Len-nb> Synaptic can't find it knome 
<knome> https://launchpad.net/menulibre
<Len-nb> Thanks
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/+archive/devel for a PPA
<knome> we'll upload it to raring.
<Len-nb> I'll try it out
<knome> Len-nb, if you have problems, just ping bluesabre. he's the developer
<knome> pleia2, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_flyer/3fold-draft-2.png
<Len-nb> If its anything like catfish, it'll be good
<pleia2> micahg: the cutoff is end of Sunday UTC (so unless it's back-dated... :))
<knome> pleia2, could actually switch the xubuntu/cof logos.
<micahg> oh, hrm /me fail
<knome> micahg, next week then!
<micahg> it's already a week old ;)
<pleia2> what is?
<micahg> new MOTUs
<pleia2> knome: what about the first screenshot?
<pleia2> micahg: oh sure, send them to -news-team and I'll mark them as being added at last week's meeting
<pleia2> knome: it's going off the edge!
<knome> pleia2, what about that?
<knome> pleia2, that's the idea.
<knome> pleia2, we can move that around if you don't think we should have anything to that
<pleia2> knome: I don't think I like it (but I don't have art brain either
<knome> just a sec.
<knome> i can change it
<bluesabre> finally back now, probably going to bed
<knome> bluesabre, wait... what?
<bluesabre> will catch up tomorrow :D
<knome> bluesabre, you going to bed before me?
<bluesabre> I've spent the whole weekend helping my mother-in-law move
<bluesabre> I'm completely exhaused
<bluesabre> *exhausted
<knome> apparently you didn't have enough T(ea)
<knome> har har har har har har
<knome> ...
<bluesabre> jerk
<bluesabre> :P
<knome> lol
<knome> that was dry, but good
<knome> anyway, good night!
<pleia2> good night bluesabre! :)
<bluesabre> night everyone (my wife actually enjoyed that joke, now she thinks you're witty)
<knome> haha, good good ;)
<pleia2> lol
<knome> i don't know what he means "thinks" i'm witty
<knome> of course i am!
<pleia2> heheh
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_flyer/3fold-draft-3.png
<knome> now go produce me more content!
<Len-nb> knome menulibre doesn't seem to run in 13.04 xubuntu. I'll talk to bluesabre tomorrow.
<knome> sure :)
<knome> Len-nb, did you try running it from the command line?
<knome> that might give some meaningful feedback
<Len-nb> Ya, but if he is gone to bed I can do that tomorrow
<knome> yup
<Len-nb> ImportError: cannot import name GError
<Len-nb> I think that was one of the things that showed when he first did catfish too, a version difference from 12.04
<knome> yeah
<Len-nb> knome, do you know much about how xfce works internally?
<knome> i wouldn't say so
<Len-nb> k, I was wondering how the de knows the monitor setup changed. :)
<knome> #xfce-dev is a good channel for that kind of questions :)
<Len-nb> Thanks, I want to make something that does something useful with a second monitor.
<knome> heh
<knome> very mysterious!
<Len-nb> Not really, dual monitors are a bit of a sore spot in Studio
<knome> bluesabre has been working on a monitor setup app as well...
<Len-nb> lots of people use them and a default of superimposed is not great
<knome> so you really should ping him.
<Len-nb> OK, I'll hit him with that tomorrow too then.
<knome> pleia2, an infobox or sth might work at the bottom of the middle page
<knome> pleia2, unless we want to fill it with more q&a
<pleia2> well, I was thinking we might need to spread things out more, since this really should be 2-sided
<knome> want to do that?
<pleia2> maybe add more shiny pictures
<pleia2> I was thinking center back could be a huge infobox
<pleia2> also, you should sleep, I got tired 2 hours ago :)
<knome> hah
<knome> the paragraph text is now 10pt
<knome> pleia2, does that comment mean you won't review the about dialog with me today? :P
<pleia2> I will review it with you today UTC
<pleia2> just need to wait, oh, 15 hours or so
<pleia2> :P
<knome> ha
<knome> i think i'll go read a book, then to bed
<knome> thanks everybody that took part to the sprint regardless of the events this week
<knome> see you later!
<knome> ---->
<Unit193> Adios!
<pleia2> good night
<astraljava> pleia2: Nah, I welcome only slightly prettier creatures on my couch. *smirk*
<ochosi> maddernick: not sure what plymouth changes you're referring to exactly, but i did review and merge your changes around 1month ago
<Maccer> Seems like the people at #xfce-dev have a different view on what the Thunar UI should be. I'm wondering what #xubuntu thinks about this patch I made recently for Thunar though:
<Maccer> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9889
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9889 in general "[PATCH] Add confirmation dialog when moving files to trash" [Enhancement,New]
<Unit193> Hey, for several of the folks it's the middle of the night, so answeres may be slow.
<Maccer> Unit193: Ah. It is the same here. I just don't know, XFCE developers mostly reside in Europe. Xubuntu developers are mostly in the US I presume.
<Maccer> I'll repost in about 12 hours.
<Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Leaders varies.  I personally use the terminal a ton, and otherwise am a shift+delete'er
<Maccer> Ah knome and ochosi are xubuntu devs. Cool.
<maddernick> ochosi: yup, but I made a commit that same day but 1hour later :P
<ochosi> maddernick: yeah, but you only removed commented code iirc
<maddernick> dead code and some spinner change iirc
<ochosi> spinner change too? are you sure?
<maddernick> i think something like adjusting the time for that
<maddernick> lemme check
<ochosi> yeah, but that's just something i had suggested as a patch before and then already merged in myself
<ochosi> so the changes from your last version to mine was only the dead code
<maddernick> oh okay
<ochosi> but plz check to be sure
<maddernick> yeah, its just + 0.1 instead of 0.2
<ochosi> mkay
<ochosi> that should be fine already
<ochosi> i tested in a vbox with R
<maddernick> I may have known about this, but forgotten, thus I bothered you for nothing :<
<maddernick> okay cool
<ochosi> no problemo
<zequence> Are you guys planning a session during UDS?
<zequence> I'm thinking Ubuntu Studio could just join yours, if it's about rolling release
<zequence> And, perhaps we could even suggest a community session where all flavors could joing, though, there's already one for Ubuntu
<zequence> knome: ^
<bluesabre> Len-nb: Yeah, theres a small one-line bug in menulibre right now, I am going to fix it when I get home tonight
<bluesabre> And the monitor setup application is an Xfce application, inside of xfce4-settings
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<knome> zequence, ironically, i think it might make more sense to have our own sessions *after* vUDS when the ubuntu folks have let their decisions known.
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<bluesabre> whats up?
<jjfrv8> Good afternoon, knome. I read the IRC sprint logs and checked the updated wiki.  Looks like the stuff I can help with (docs and testing)...
<jjfrv8> have been postponed until after vUDS.
<knome> jjfrv8, yeah... we want to see how things span out and react accordingly
<jjfrv8> I'll check back after the dust settles.
<knome> jjfrv8, not all of the things make sense do work on if the release model changes
<knome> jjfrv8, sure, we're much wiser later this week
<jjfrv8> agreed.
<skellat> The blueprint has been approved by the UDS-1303 organizers but there has not yet been a time slot assigned to discuss general contingencies: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/contingencies
 * skellat moves blueprint to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/community-xubuntu-contingencies
<ochosi> just wondering: what problems does kde's release cycle cause kubuntu?
<micahg> ochosi: 6 mo cadence, Ubuntu moving to 2yr cadence
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> i guess we won't have _that_ problem with xfce :p
<ochosi> while theoretically it would have a 1year cadence, it in fact rather has a 2year cadence
<micahg> scottk mentioned derived distros, I forgot about that
<yofel> it's a matter of what we in kubuntu can call a "release". Currently we have releases for each of the KDE SC releases. With the rolling release that's not as aligned anymore
<micahg> we can use a derived distro every year based on the previous LTS to release Xfce + anything else we want
<skellat> micahg: Derived Distro was differentiated from the Flavors, though.  Derived Distro was used to mean Linux Mint while Xubuntu remains a Flavor.
<micahg> skellat: I was referring to the derived distro feature in LP, we'd still be in the archive and release the LTS with Ubuntu
<skellat> micahg: Okay
<ochosi> not sure the xfce updates can't be offered along everything else
<ochosi> i mean practically we're shipping _parts_ of xfce4.12 in R
<ochosi> and with the PPAs we're also shipping them back
<skellat> Well, xfce4.12 is set to drop on 2013-03-10
<ochosi> it would be among the few xfce releases that happen on time ;)
<micahg> xfce 4.12 wouldn't be in 13.04 regardless
<ochosi> well it partly is already
<ochosi> all the components that had releases in 4.12 are in R already
<micahg> not the core libraries, only the extras
<micahg> *core apps
<ochosi> thunar? xfce4-settings?
<micahg> xfce4-settings | 4.10.0-1ubuntu3 | raring/universe | source, amd64, armhf, i386, powerpc
<ochosi> hm, that'd be surprising if mr_pouit had only uploaded it to the ppa and not R
<ochosi> but yeah, seemingly that's the case
 * ochosi scratches his head
<ochosi> anyway, i'd consider exo and thunar core
<micahg> not versioned 4.12 :)
<ochosi> pfff :)
<ochosi> well anyway, i was just trying to make a point
<ochosi> xfce is quite modular, which helps us with updating single components
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> Now if I could just figure out who the "community" track lead is so I can propose pushing the contingencies blueprint to later in the day Wednesday, we could be set
<skellat> Alrighty, we've got a time!  The Xubuntu meeting at UDS-1303 is scheduled for Wednesday running 18:00 - 18:55 UTC which should let us see what has happened with everything else by that point.  It is the second to last slot available, after all.  Time conversion here: http://timeanddate.com/s/2c85
<knome> i will have to see if i can make it
<skellat> Let dholbach know if we need to change the time
<knome> nah, earlier would only be worse
<skellat> The only other slot available would start at 1900 UTC
<knome> it's fine as it is. if i can't make it, then i can't
<skellat> Alrighty.  I gotta make a couple phone calls to shift an appointment so I can be sure that I myself can attend.
<skellat> Though first I have to figure out where my cat dragged my cell phone to...
 * skellat disappears to run errands
<knome> skellat, thanks for taking care
<pleia2> I think astraljava called me ugly
<GridCube> o:
<knome> pleia2, no. he called you out-of-his-league
<zequence> I caught something on kubuntus devel channel. Apparently Ubuntu might be developing its' own replacement for X https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MirSpec
<knome> i read that somewhere else also
<zequence> That's a pretty huge change
<skellat> Okay, this Mir bit is going to make the contingencies discussion even more interesting.  We're getting to the point of breaking everything just to chase the zeitgeist which is an extremely dangerous gamble.
<bluesabre_> they'll probably do it similarly to wayland, and continue to support X through a compatability layer
<skellat> According to their spec, that'll be gone 2014-04: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MirSpec
<skellat> Pardon me, we won't have that support layer until October 2013
<skellat> The blueprint dependencies are huge for this Mir thingie: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-mir-converged
<bluesabre_> It has to be if its going to be a replacement for X.
<skellat> Yeah
<bluesabre_> I just don't see it being a big problem.  If it has a compatability layer for X, it won't be an entire replacement, and the only thing that will really have it as a requirement is Unity (for the time being)
<bluesabre_> Wayland fails in that it essentially targets gtk3
<knome> http://open.knome.fi/2013/03/04/is-uds-no-longer-uds/
<knome> there we go.
<knome> put the kettle on, get some tea and take a moment to sit down and read
<skellat> You didn't mention we did get a Xubuntu-related session into UDS-1303 at the last minute :-)
<knome> that's irrelevant to that post
<knome> i could tweet about that though
<skellat> I recognize the Kubuntu folks are staying away from UDS-1303 but we're going to get 55 minutes to use as productively as possible, I hope
<skellat> We've got a late enough slot in the mess that we'll know more of what the endgame is looking like
<knome> is there a uds schedule visible anywhere?
<knome> i can't see one linked in the uds frontpage.
<skellat> Yep: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/
<knome> ok, cheers
<skellat> Most of the scary stuff seems front-loaded to Tuesday anyhow
<ochosi> bluesabre_: how does wayland essentially target gtk3? (i don't mean wrt gtk2, but wrt qt, which is what unity will be using)
<bluesabre_> or maybe it's just that gtk3 is the only one showing off that it can use what wayland offers
<ochosi> afaik kde is already working on a compositor or something
<ochosi> and the toolkit shouldn't be behind gtk3 in terms of wayland integration, at least from what i heard at fosdem
<knome> skellat, tweeted at https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/308649358474223616
<ochosi> but anyway, we'll see whether canonical have the manpower to really pull this off
<ochosi> bbiab
<bluesabre_> http://wayland.freedesktop.org/toolkits.html
<bluesabre_> looks like neither of them really have "native" support for wayland
<bluesabre_> gtk has to be compiled with specific flags, qt has to use a plugin
<bluesabre_> so, I suppose I take back my statement then
<bluesabre_> :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> just not sure why canonical really decided that neither wayland nor X works for them
<ochosi> (especially considering the high workload that developing a display-server entails)
<bluesabre_> maybe wayland isn't doesn't play friendly with a tiny form-factor
<knome> maybe wayland isn't good for all the devices they want to support
<knome> great minds think alike?
<bluesabre_> clearly :D
<knome> i've heard the variation that "idiots think alike" as well... ;)
<bluesabre_> I try to be ignorant of that variant
<knome> ;)
<knome> well clearly it can't be that, because one of us isn't an idiot.
<bluesabre_> 5 minutes without anybody challenging that, I think we're dafe
<bluesabre_> damn
<bluesabre_> *safe
<bluesabre_> glad I was already sure that I wasn't an idiot
<knome> :)
<knome> did you mean: "I think we're daft"
<drc> knome: Just got back from the hourly dogwalk (yes she's spoiled, but I'm retired and what else do I have to do?), saw the post about your UDS blog.  One of the most congnizant and coherent I've read, kudos.  Maybe if I could express myself that well, I wouldn't have had to vent :)
<knome> drc, thanks. i had some people to review the logic as well though
<astraljava> pleia2: Oh, oops. Thought we were talking about Teh Gnome. Pardon me!
<knome> parrot you
<ochosi> micahg: btw, as gmusicbrowser 1.1.10 has recently been released and contains quite a few fixes we could use well, it'd be nice to get this into R (i know it's late, so no worries if it doesn't work out)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-05
<skellat> knome: It is probably best that we watch this blueprint and session very carefully as it makes the RR matter less of a done deal it seems https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-1303-rolling-release
<knome> skellat, i wouldn't count on anything. but it's good to know what's happening
<Unit193> From what I've read, mir has less of a chance than rolling.
<bluesabre_> mr_pouit, micahg, since FF is just around the corner, maybe one of you should go ahead and try to get catfish 0.6 in the repos.  Not sure if I'll have time, sadly
<bluesabre_> It might need to be packaged differently though since I've restructured it a bit.  I know Liviu has had trouble with packaging it into his ppa, I need to look into that tonight
<skellat> knome: *PING* And the whiteboard for the rolling release discussion is changed again after this morning's keynote saying now that it is "early discussion phase": https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-1303-rolling-release 
<micahg> bluesabre_: did you make an official release of the tarball?
<bluesabre_> hey micahg, release and tarball are here: https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/0.6/0.6.1
<micahg> bluesabre_: excellent, thanks, will see if I can update it a bit later
<bluesabre_> thanks micahg!
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-06
<pleia2> http://blogs.kde.org/2013/03/05/1304-go-ahead
<knome> mh
<knome> is that official?
 * pleia2 shrugs
<pleia2> "we seem to have consensus"
<knome> aha.
<knome> would be nice to know soon... preferably before FF.
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> or if we could push FF off for a week, I could get more done in time ;-)
<Unit193> FFe?
<micahg> bluesabre: bug fixes don't need FFe
<bluesabre> I know
<bluesabre> but version bumps do, right?
<bluesabre> e.g. parole
<micahg> major version bumps for features, sure, microreleases for bugs only don't need exceptions until final freeze
<scottbomb> Hey all. I'm just starting here. Got feedback today on the mail list xubuntu-devel about iso.qa.ubuntu.com. I'm already registered on Launchpad too.  So how do I tell which of the many testcases I should work without causing too much duplication?
<micahg> bluesabre: I have a bit more cleanup to do before I can upload, need to finish tomorrow
<ochosi> seems like a some longtime ubuntu-members are dropping out (http://doctormo.org/2013/03/06/ubuntu-membership-2/)
<astraljava> ochosi: I have to say I agree somewhat. I don't really feel the same enthusiasm of belonging to the community as I did a few years ago. Maybe the reason why I haven't become a member in the first place. At first I thought I was inadequate, now I don't know if I want to, even. But I haven't closed this chapter, yet. :)
<bluesabre> micahg, thanks for the update :)
<ochosi> astraljava: yeah, i somewhat agree on that too (partially why i pasted it)
<ochosi> i was wondering whether there's a wider tendency of older members to drop out of the community now
<ochosi> as things are changing rapidly and the community is informed about it via the media
<knome> it's probably just like that
<ochosi> knome: time to write a mirror-article to this one ;) http://blogs.kde.org/2013/03/06/ubuntu-community-community
<knome> i don't think that solves the issue.
<ochosi> obviously not. and obviously i was a bit sarcastic ;)
<knome> wasn't so sure.
<ochosi> but in the end _we_ can't really solve "the issue"
<knome> no, and that's my point
<ochosi> i was a bit bewildered by that blogpost tbh
<ochosi> seems a bit like a weird "call to arms"
<Unit193> Or like someone is highly annoyed.
<yofel> it wasn't really intended as such. But being frustated recently might have had some influence
<ochosi> well sure, being frustrated at this point is no surprise
<ochosi> but it seems like everyone is shooting very rapidly now
<ochosi> and i'm wondering whether taking a step back, breathing deeply and waiting for the dust to settle wouldn't be wiser
<knome> i wouldn't want to tell new contributors that we aren't like ubuntu, because that can newer be true
<ochosi> and less disruptive for everyone
<knome> ubuntu's (read: canonical's) decisions will always affect xubuntu
<yofel> he didn't say that either, he said "if you want an ubuntu community that..."
<knome> no, but that's how i read it
<yofel> ochosi: the problem with that is with things moving as fast as they are now you might miss the timeframe where you *can* still raise objections
<ochosi> yofel: i get that, but this blogpost isn't really about "raising objections" imo
<knome> the community should definitely shout out now, but not anything that isn't argumented well
<ochosi> it's way past raising objections
<knome> i don't see the post as too much canonical-opposed
<yofel> he might have stressed the limits of "playing nice" a bit, but maybe *sometimes* you just have to say what you think
<yofel> esp. if you have the feeling that people ignore you when you're being nice
<knome> some might think i'm pushing (or crossing) the boundaries as well in my article
<ochosi> i dunno, to me asking people to "join us, we're the good ones" is just a downer
<ochosi> devs@wayland have obviously also cried out
<knome> yes, that's what it feels like, not like "canonical is bad, let's retaliate"
<ochosi> and not that it would've made sense for them, but if they'd have asked mir-devs to join wayland, that would've felt just as weird
<knome> and i don't think that attitude is constructive anyway ^
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> especially as a "flavors unite" post would've made much more sense to me than "come and join only us"
<knome> it's not only the flavors that need to cooperate, it's the whole volunteering community
<ochosi> yeah, you can also call it "community unite" if you will )
<ochosi> that'd actually be a nice reply to the kubuntu blogpost :)
<knome> but that's a slippery slope.
<ochosi> depends on what you expect from it
<knome> i think the best way is to make sure we get as much well argumented posts from all over the community
<astraljava> ochosi: Well, at least Charlie up and left.
<knome> did he contribute much after leaving xubuntu?
<astraljava> Not sure, but he did say something about the accessibility sector.
<knome> i haven't been monitoring all the teams so i don't know if he has
<astraljava> But yeah, I don't follow as closely nowadays, so I have no idea.
<knome> just wondering how major depart it is
<astraljava> Would be intriguing to know some numbers, yeah.
<knome> he did drop a lot of his responsibilities before
<knome> meh @ laptop batter
<knome> +y
<knome> 10% is 24 mins?
<knome> that makes sense
<astraljava> That's not a meh-worthy issue. What is, is the broken screen of a touch screen phone.
<astraljava> Broken in a sense that it shows stuff, but doesn't react to... you guessed it, touches.
<knome> reported full load has decreased again though :(
<knome> yeah, that sucks
<knome> but you know what i think about smartphones
<astraljava> I know. Hence it's meh-worthy.
<knome> not really.
<knome> get a phone that's a phone
<knome> ;)
<astraljava> Well I don't think you get too agitated about it, since you don't even have one, and will never get one. :)
<knome> yeah.
<astraljava> Soo... meh.
<knome> anybody whining that their smartphone calls are slow or bad in quality
<knome> ...
<knome> just get a *phone*
<astraljava> Yes well I have a Nokia E7, but can't switch the SIM card there, cause they're of different size.
<knome> there are adapters for that
<knome> unless you have the legacy one and need a smaller one
<knome> anyway...
<knome> i need to go
<knome> wifes brother gets back from india today
<knome> have fun everybody
<pleia2> scott-work: great comment on doctormo's blog post, thank you
<Unit193> knome: Need to fix the !daily-#xubuntu factoid, no more alternate cd.
<Unit193> Also, one from #xubuntu may be interested in testing, and another piped up too.
<n-iCe> hello!
<n-iCe> I want to be a tester!
<ochosi> n-iCe: nice!
<n-iCe> what should I do :D
<ochosi> n-iCe: have you read through this page yet? http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/
<n-iCe> No, I'm doing it, thanks.
<ochosi> k
<scott-work> pleia2: oh thank you! i appreciate your comments on my comments
<scott-work> i was hoping it was insightful and that someone would respond or say something back
<knome> are we doing a hangout?
<scott-work> ochosi: LOL (i just caught your 'nice' comment)
<Unit193> Which rep from Xubuntu do we have today?
<micahg> ooh, are we starting?
<knome> i wouuld be more comfortable with a private hangout, tbh.
<knome> -u
<knome> or something similar
<Unit193> Yes.
<Unit193> I have a mic, so technically I could join, but not sure I have much to add.
<knome> can we have one after this session?
<Unit193> I'm good with joining you (or anyone), if I'm needed.
<knome> skellat, it's not about you. you're free to join us.
<Kris_CGo> Any devs here who know if you're going to use mir or wayland? It seems many ubuntu derivatives are going wayland and a few mir.
<knome> no.
<knome> we don't know yet
<knome> Kris_CGo, and please don't crosspost.
<Kris_CGo> Wayland is nearly done and Mir is still a very early alpha, doesn't seem to be any advantages unless you're going to have xubuntu for mobile... so i guess that's what determines it ultimately in the future. I've been using xfce for years on desktop, have always had a great experience with it.
<knome> can we schedule a xubuntu hangout or some kind of session after the proposal goes under review?
<skellat> knome: I'll add that to my list of things to do
<knome> skellat, thanks
<knome> micahg, what you're proposing sounds fine, but i'd like to have some kind of timeframe for the upgrades
<knome> micahg, even a week or two.
<micahg> knome: sure, as rick said, that's an implementation detail
<knome> yes, but an important one
<knome> at least from my point of view
<micahg> sure, I think how seamless we can make the release upgrade will determine how what type of window we need
<knome> would you be proposing we only have these releases and LTS, and not use the rolling release stuff at all?
<Unit193> (libopus0 isn't in backports, so says ubottu)
<micahg> well, we'd integrate most of the concepts from the rolling release to make everything rock solid, it'll be critical in reducing the support overlap
<micahg> Unit193: hrm :(, I'll have to go digging, it might have been blocked on something
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc/+bug/1099003 (I don't use precise except for a server)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1099003 in vlc (Ubuntu) "VLC 2.0.5 won't work with Opus. Please include libopus0 from n-muench PPA" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<Unit193> knome: When would you be interested in doing that, BTW?
<micahg> Unit193: ah, no one filed backport requests for opus/vlc
<knome> Unit193, after we have a formal proposal for the RR
<skellat> Oh, and Happy Feature Freeze Thursday!
<knome> skellat, you too
<Unit193> Ehhh, I've got a couple hours left, maybe...
<micahg> umm, yeah, about 26 :)
<Unit193> And they don't hand out FFes to everyone either.
<knome> Unit193, definitely not you.
<Unit193> Hah, indeed.
<scottbomb> Hello all. Is there any disadvantage in using VirtualBox for ISO testing?
<scottbomb> I suppose it may not help since VB uses the Windows drivers and doesn't communicate directly with hardware, is that correct?
<knome> scottbomb, it helps a bit, but of course that's not real hardware testing
<knome> virtualbox uses generic drivers that are *made* to be as easy as possible for the hardware
<scottbomb> Cool, thanks. I'll do directly with a real install then. Now do I just pick any testcase I feel like testing?
<knome> scottbomb, any should be fine. after you've done the installing testcase, check out our post-install testcases :)
<scottbomb> Will do, thanks. Also, I understand I should use the daily builds, right?
<knome> yes, since we're not doing any milestone testing right now
<knome> please note that there's also the upgrade tests
<knome> where you install the previous version first, then upgrade to the newest
<scottbomb> The laptop is running Quantal now. So I would do a fresh install of the ISO or I can do an upgrade to the daily Raring build?
<knome> an upgrade from your installation would do
<scottbomb> Then each day just upgrade to the newest daily and continue testing packages as needed per the testcases?
<knome> well, most of the testcases include installing a system
<knome> so ideally you would install the system again every day, *then* run the post-installation (desktop) tests
<scottbomb> I'm quite new at this so thank you for your patience. I want to be as useful as possible so I think I'll go that route then, as you suggest with new installs.
<knome> no problem
<knome> and feel free to ask for assistance any time
<scottbomb> Cool thanks.
<knome> and great to see new people wanting to help
<eduardo__> Hello!
<GridCube> hi
<eduardo__> I found a bug! (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/1063965)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1063965 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu) "Choppy sound in 12.10" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<eduardo__> Help me, please!
<eduardo__> My version of Xubuntu is 12.10 amd64.
<eduardo__> Someone?
<eduardo__> I'm new on Xubuntu. Help me, please!
<eduardo__> I'm from Brazil and not speak English very good!
<eduardo__> Nobody go me help same huh?
<drc> eduardo__: #xubuntu is the support channel
<eduardo__> ok
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-07
<bluesabre> micahg, any luck with catfish 0.6.1?
<bluesabre> micahg, mr_pouit: just released parole (stable) 0.5.0 :-)
<bluesabre> nothing makes things happen faster than a feature freeze
<micahg> bluesabre: sorry, been busy all day, will take a look after I get -settings up for studio
 * micahg will try to get gmusicbrowser up from Debian git as well
<bluesabre> thanks micahg!
<MrEAZ> hello there!!
<MrEAZ> I have a notice about a non-valid website-link in software-center
<MrEAZ> it's the link of Gmount-iso of which the website link should be https://launchpad.net/gmount-iso
<zequence> So, FF, or no FF..
<knome> PopeJob_, please fix your connection
<bluesabre> zequence, assume that we will for now I suppose
<zequence> bluesabre: Sure. We might as well keep working as if all was normal. Just that there will probably not be an official feature freeze today. Not until they've decide whether or not to scrap rolling release this time around
<bluesabre> Well, it's not reallly a matter of scrapping the rolling release, since the decision to implement that hasn't actually been made yet
<bluesabre> As Jono said yesterday, it's still just a proposal, and we might as well trust him because what else can we do?  :-)
<zequence> That's true, but they are discussing it. And until they have decided to scrap the proposal, there will be no feature freeze
<knome> i agree with bluesabre that the two things are not really connected
<knome> whether 13.04 is released is not the same whether we move to RR
<knome> it's at most just a trivial detail in the RR discussion
<zequence> If they move towards a rolling release, there's no saying when it will be launched, which means, the current schedule will not be synced with that. Probably would mean we have more time
<zequence> I'm also only talking about the official feature freeze
<zequence> Either it will happen, or it won't
<knome> brb, need to work
<zequence> If a rolling release is announced, we all need to change our planning model. FF in itself may be a minor detail, but that's really what will signify if the change comes or not (unless they do the FF and keep discussing)
<zequence> But from what is said so far, FF will come only after they've come to some sort of conlcusion
<zequence> So, basically, I'm waiting for the answer: FF, or no FF
<knome> yeah.
<knome> that would need to be communicated
<knome> but that has nothing to do with the decision to move to RR or not
<zequence> If the said they're not announcing FF until they've discussed the topic of rolling release, in which way are you saying it has nothing to do with us moving to RR or not?
<knome> it should have nothing to do with it
<knome> that's a failure in the communication then
<knome> and proves that this RR discussion is happening too late in the release
<zequence> Actually, rereading, it seems also blocking FF was just a suggestion
<zequence> Anyway. We should find out soon enough
<knome> i thought there was some consensus that there is FF at least a few days ago, but i haven't followed the discussion too closely.
<yofel> without the tech board there really can't be any consensus. Also mark took the diplomatic stance: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1228
 * yofel assumes there will be FF today like the schedule says
<zequence> I was wondering where Mark was at ;)
<zequence> UDS this year was pretty focused on development only though
<zequence> Good post. Hope some people take the time to read it
<bluesabre_1> More from Mark: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1232
<user99999> hello
<user99999> how to change mouse dpi?
<holstein> user99999: i would first /join the support channel.. then try asking "how do i change the cursor".. asking about changing the DPI is confusing. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1974227
<holstein> try Settings Manager -> Mouse -> Theme tab
<user99999> holstein, not cursor theme :)
<user99999> mouse resolution
<holstein> user99999: you choose a different theme with a different resolution
<holstein> user99999: otherwise, change the resolution of your screen
<holstein> http://handytutorial.com/change-cursor-theme-in-ubuntu-12-04-12-10/
<holstein> http://askubuntu.com/questions/75611/mouse-pointer-size-problem
<user99999> :)
<user99999> heavy the English :D
<holstein> user99999: ?
<user99999> /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<user99999>     Identifier     "Mouse0"
<user99999>     Option "Resolution" "2000"
<user99999> Option "Resolution" "2000" = dpi
<holstein> user99999: i dont understand what "heavy the english" means.. also use pastebin
<holstein> !paste
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<user99999> sry
<holstein> user99999: no worries. also, join the support channel... #xubuntu
<user99999> okey, join #xubuntu ..
<user99999> ty :)
<pleia2> oh!
<pleia2> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2013/03/07/s06e02-crouching-tiger-hidden-ubuntu/ :)
<pleia2> (Xubuntu interview in there)
 * pleia2 puts on the twitter and stuff
<Noskcaj> congrats on the podcast interview pleia2, very interesting
<pleia2> thanks
<pleia2> it was recorded last Wednesday, so before storm of all-the-things ;)
<Noskcaj> ok, i only just learned that xubuntu had a testing lead.
<bluesabre_> indeed, listening to it now
<pleia2> Noskcaj: well, we *did* have a testing lead...
<pleia2> he got muy busy with real life this cycle though, we need a new one
 * Noskcaj puts hand up
<pleia2> knome: amagad ^^
<pleia2> Noskcaj: good, we'll talk to knome, would be great to see testing stuff back on track
<Noskcaj> :) 
<pleia2> the lead pretty much makes sure test cases exist, people are doing the tests, and periodically sends mails to the development list to remind us that we should be doing tests :)
<Noskcaj> ok
 * pleia2 hasn't done any this cycle :(
<pleia2> so you should say "hey pleia2, this thing is important, can you do a test tonight?"
<pleia2> and I will be "gosh, I forgot all about testing, yes sir!"
<bluesabre_> I'll keep that in mind :)
<Noskcaj> ok, lol. one thing, can someone get bug 1110158 fixed
<ubottu> bug 1110158 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Tiling a window + resizeing sends it out of screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1110158
<micahg> that's a bug, it can be addressed after feature freeze
<Noskcaj> micahg, my issue is it affects 12.10
<micahg> oh, well, it needs to be fixed in raring first, but it's not even addressed upstream yet according to the linked bug
<Noskcaj> yeah, knome and i reported and confirmed it, then it was forgotten
<micahg> well, poke me next week and maybe I can take a look
<Noskcaj> ok, ty
<bluesabre_> micahg, have you gotten a chance to check out catfish or parole (sorry to keep bugging you)
<micahg> bluesabre: was about to look at catfish again, you need me to upload parole as well?
<bluesabre_> yeah, just released a new parole this morning
<bluesabre_> it's packaging should be largely the same, so it shouldn't be too annoying
<bluesabre_> Eventually, I'll move out of "developer-in-training" and into "developer" and won't have to bother you as much :)
<micahg> yeah, we can work on PPU for you at some point once we've seen some packaging experience
<pleia2> bluesabre_: and yes, I can test things for you too :) just know that I need very specific instructions about how to do it (what version xubuntu to test on, which ppa, what features to test)
<bluesabre_> micahg, sure thing.  I was going to do the sponsored uploads, but FF snuck up on me
<bluesabre_> sure thing pleia2, I sent an email to knome to share about things to test, not sure if he ever forwarded it to where he was going to
 * micahg tries parole quickly
<knome> bluesabre_, i didn't, we should get the testcases done
<micahg> bluesabre: any reason why you're not using xz tarballs yet
<bluesabre_> micahg, didn't know I was supposed to (and didn't know if the xfce release manager supported it)
<bluesabre_> ... and, make distcheck just makes bz2 and gz
<bluesabre_> knome, I thought I had finished them, maybe not
<micahg> bluesabre: oh, not necessarily supposed to, was just wondering if there's a reason as xz is smaller and decompresses faster
<knome> bluesabre_, they probably are finished. if they are and we don't have any more tests, we should move them to the iso tracker
<micahg> bluesabre: parole uploaded
<bluesabre_> knome, I'll review them tonight to make sure
<micahg> I'd like to revamp the catfish packaging, but I have limited time
<bluesabre_> micahg, you're awesome!  thanks
<knome> bluesabre_, thanks!
<bluesabre_> micahg, we could probably fix the packaging later, we'll probably have a 0.6.2 before release
<micahg> bluesabre: major packaging revamps require an FFe
<bluesabre_> ah
<knome> micahg, is the FF officially taking place?
<micahg> AFAIK, yes
<knome> micahg, and does it mean that we will release, or are we picking on the developers for fun?
<micahg> AFAIK, we're releasing 13.04
<knome> :)
<micahg> I still need to write up my proposal to -devel, but I have a lot of things in the air right now
<knome> i'm pretty sure we all do
<micahg> 13.04 may or may not have 18  months support
<knome> that's fine as long as it is even slightly more than 6mth.
<micahg> oh, right, not just packaging revamp with catfish, but lintian errors/warnings galore :(
<bluesabre_> :(
<micahg> oh, it's not so bad, just scrolly
<micahg> bluesabre: in case you're curious: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5594169/
<bluesabre_> I'm assuming you had to change some things from the old packaging, right?  I know Liviu was trying to package it for his ppa and his generated debs were missing a bunch of files
<micahg> bluesabre: no, not much actually, just needed intltool
<bluesabre_> oh cool
<micahg> bluesabre: am I missing stuff? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5594177/
<knome> Noskcaj_AFK, can you please not use awaynicks
<Noskcaj_AFK> ok
<bluesabre_> micahg, the depends are different now
<knome> Noskcaj, thanks. if you want to tell people are away, use /away :)
<bluesabre_> Depends: python-gi, gksu, findutils
<Noskcaj> knome, ok, ty
<knome> np
<bluesabre_> Suggests: python-zeitgeist | zeitgeist
<micahg> bluesabre: umm, I don't want to be depending on gksu
<micahg> findutils is essential
<bluesabre_> The update-index dialog uses the system command "gksudo"
<micahg> so, you don't need python-xdg anymore?
<bluesabre_> yeah, got rid of that dependency finally
<micahg> why do you need sudo at all?
<bluesabre_> gksudo updatedb to update the locate database
<micahg> hrm, we still have it seeded so I guess that's ok for the moment
<micahg> all the other suggests are useless now?
<bluesabre_> yeah
<micahg> ok, am I missing any files though?
<bluesabre_> looks like its missing the catfish.py|catfish.pyc
<bluesabre_> I can forward you a working deb so you can see the structure if you'd like?
<micahg> ooh, that's important :)
<bluesabre_> actually, it looks like its missing all the python files
<micahg> yeah
<micahg> let me check the build logs
<bluesabre_> You can update the description too, if you want?
<bluesabre_> Description: A file searching tool which is configurable via the command line.  Catfish is a handy file searching tool for Linux and UNIX. The interface is intentionally lightweight and simple, using only Gtk+3. You can configure it to your needs by using several command line options.  .  http://software.twotoasts.de/?page=catfish
<micahg> bluesabre: oh, is it still hosted on twotoasts?  I thought it moved to LP
<bluesabre_> yeah, its on LP now
<micahg> No module named gi.repository
<micahg> ...Error: The required module gi.repository is missing.
<bluesabre_> didn't know if homepage was for project home or sourcecode home
<micahg> home page is for project home, but twotoasts is out of date
<knome> mr_pouit, is the bug 775117 reportedly fixed in R?
<ubottu> bug 775117 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "Thunar hangs on first launch of each session" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775117
<bluesabre_> python-gi?
<micahg> not in build depends :)
<bluesabre_> the lp page is probably better anyway
 * micahg adds and tries again
<bluesabre_> Depends: python-gi, gksu, findutils :)
<micahg> that was from the build log
<micahg> hrm, I think dh_python2 isn't happy since the path isn't the same as the package name
<bluesabre_> does that mean its not going to work?
<bluesabre_> bbiab, meeting time
<micahg> no, it means I have to tweak it
<micahg> hrm, still failed
<micahg> python's not my specialty... I'll have to dig deeper
 * micahg tries a bit of napalm
<bluesabre_> kaboom?
<micahg> nothing yet
<micahg> knome: are we doing beta 1? (I'd like to say yes)
<micahg> hrm, I can't seem to get dh_python2 to install anything
<micahg> I'll have to get help with this later
<bluesabre_> sorry for the time sink
<bluesabre_> knome, we should definitely do beta 1
<bluesabre_> then our new png-icon-theme could really get a workout
<bluesabre_> not to mention parole and (possibly) catfish
<knome> micahg, yes.
<knome> ->
<bluesabre_> micahg, this is what quickly used when I was using it's build stuff: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~catfish-search/catfish-search/0.5/revision/38#debian/rules but that's probably not too helpful
<bluesabre_> heading out, bbl
<bluesabre_> micahg, good luck!
<micahg> bluesabre: it fails for me on the configure call with the straight dh7 short form
<micahg> knome: so, someone should review the default languages on the ISO and make sure they're what's wanted
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.raring/view/head:/desktop#L168 So we're still shipping alacarte rather than menulibre?  (I know, things could change.)
<AndChat-114816> Yeah, menulibre still can't edit menu structure 
<Len-nb> menulibre didn't run for me on 13.04
<bluesabre_mobile> Yeah, that's a minor bug I need to release a fix for 
<Unit193> bluesabre_mobile: Bummer, but thanks.
<bluesabre_mobile> Yeah, hopefully next release. Feature freeze snuck up in me 
 * Len-nb would rather have none than alacarte
<Len-nb> bluesabre_mobile, how much do you know about display detection?
<bluesabre_mobile> Len-nb, not much. Check out the xfce4-settings code
<Len-nb> That would tell me how to find what is there, xrandr does too, I want to detect when a second screen is plugged, unplugged
<Len-nb> Thanks, though.
 * Len-nb wanders off
<Unit193> Not that I was the one asked, or know much when it comes to language packs, but I would have guessed de and fr would be used rather than xh, but I guess you learn new things.
<Unit193> micahg: Sorry for being a pain, I was looking at "ship", not "live".  Only other seemingly highly used one is ru.
<bluesabre_mobile> micahg, Liviu thinks he may have figured it out, doesn't look like his build has happened yet (catfish) 
 * bluesabre_mobile is excited for some raring builds 
<micahg> Unit193: we have the room, I don't mind adding it
<Unit193> micahg: I'm going off of slightly untrustworthy popcon for Ubuntu.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-08
<bluesabre> micahg, I don't know what dh7 means
<micahg> bluesabre: short form dh
<bluesabre> ah, does it work to use a later version of debhelper (not really sure how to help at this point)
<micahg> not that I know of (dh7 is the form of debian/rules that you're using)
<micahg> so, I can't get it to build without overriding dh_auto_configure, but if I do that, I get a build with no python files installed
<bluesabre> I think the quickly packaging uses version 8
<micahg> shouldn't matter, the debhelper used is the version in raring which is 9.x
<ochosi> hey
<bluesabre> hey micahg, I think liviu may have gotten it.  https://launchpad.net/~catfish-search/+archive/catfish-stable/+packages
<ochosi> Len-nb: display hotplugging is implemented in xfce4-settings in git, it currently brings up the minimal dialog (optionally) if you add a second screen (caveat: doesn't work with all analog setups, digital should be fine in general)
<ochosi> micahg: not sure that got lost in your backlog or maybe you also don't/didn't have time for it, but i wanted to bring up the gmusicbrowser release again
<micahg> bluesabre: for precise, not quantal (same issue I'm having in raring)
<micahg> ochosi: yeah, I have it on my list, will try to get it in for beta 1
<micahg> bluesabre: also, we want to ship py files, not pyc files
<ochosi> micahg: thanks a lot! i know it was/is onshort notice, but the release was just a short while ago..
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'm not really up to speed on that, but have you talked to anyone yet about getting parole 0.5 into R?
<micahg> bluesabre: right, there's no dh_python2 in precise
<micahg> ochosi: already in
<ochosi> oh, awesome!
<ochosi> thanks again :)
<bluesabre> micahg, so the packaging he used in precise (just tested and it works in precise) wouldn't work in later releases?
<micahg> bluesabre: oh, hrm, I'm thinking of lucid
<micahg> he's not using dh_python2 at all
<bluesabre> but it does seem to work
<ochosi> time to sleep, night!
<bluesabre> seeya ochosi
<bluesabre> micahg, did catfish make it?
<micahg> bluesabre: not yet
<micahg> bluesabre: I'll try again this weekend maybe
<bluesabre> micahg, thanks!
<micahg> it would probably help if I got a local build workinging, I'll read through the âfiles and see if I missed anyth
<bluesabre> cool, if you need anything from me, let me know
<micahg> thanks
<skellat> knome pleia2 micahg Rick Spencer has proposals up for editing on the Wiki here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCadence
<micahg> skellat: yeah, I'll be looking at that next week
<skellat> knome pleia2 micahg The relevant e-mail is here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-March/036872.html
<skellat> micahg: It looks like the deadline Mr. Spencer has put into place for putting something to Tech Board is March 18th.  I'll need to know from knome about when he wants the hangout/virtual meeting/conference call arranged for now.
<micahg> next tech board meeting is then
<skellat> Hmm
<pleia2> yeah, I find the "every 6 months but only support for 7-8 months proposal very interesting for my personal uses ;)
<skellat> I get ubuntu-devel in digest mode so I'm reacting on the fly as I only got the digest in the past couple minutes
<pleia2> but I hate change, so there is that
<micahg> yes, that's what I'm shooting for + maybe a rolling release tacked on
<pleia2> I am sympathetic to the argument that freeze time is loss productivity for folks who aren't doing fixes, so having something roll on through that is compelling
<pleia2> (or even open the next +1 as soon as +1 freezes)
<pleia2> which I guess is just rolling with different words :)
<skellat> In terms of psychological stresses in the community, I favor letting 13.04 finish but then not have a 13.10 while we take the time to retool to have a firm foundation to make all this work before we start gearing up for 14.04
<micahg> I think the win/win here is 6 mo cadence with ~7 mo support that's created from the stable part of the rolling release at ~month 4.5 of the cycle
<skellat> micahg: Isn't that essential Fedora-style support length?
<micahg> ni idea
<Unit193> I'm good with 6 month releases, but shorter support time.  Generally those people upgrade, the rest stick at an LTS.
<pleia2> skellat: welcome by the way, you've been here for several days and I haven't said so, always nice to have new people come and join the conversation :)
<pleia2> Unit193: right
<Unit193> pleia2: left.
<skellat> Actually, the 6 month cadence with 7 month support would put us at a shorter window than Fedora.  Apparently Fedora X goes End of Life at Fedora X+2.  See: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Release_Life_Cycle#End_of_Life_.28EOL.29
<pleia2> fedora doesn't have an LTS though, so I think they need an option for people who use it a bit longer (I don't know who these people are)
<micahg> right, so 13 mo would match fedora, I don't think we can win with that though
<micahg> + pleia2's point
<micahg> pleia2: there's CentOS for LTS type stuff though
<pleia2> fedora always structured me as development for red hat
<pleia2> yeah
<skellat> RHEL: You paid for it.  CentOS: You didn't pay for it.  Fedora: You're either a developer or you want a wild ride.
<micahg> one of the criteria here is quality so that upgrades from release -> release are basically seemless
<micahg> *seamless
<Unit193> But if you like Ubuntu, but just don't like release upgrades...
<pleia2> apparently english is not my strong suit tonight, you know what I mean
<micahg> Unit193: LTS FTW :)
<Unit193> micahg: That was a reply to the CentOS comment.
<skellat> Liking Ubuntu but not liking release upgrades stays too much within a Microsoft-created paradigm.  Yes, there are probably still tons and tons of machines out there running XP.  How do you entice those folks to upgrade?  Do they have the hardware *able* to survive/support an upgrade?
<micahg> LTS is for that, 5 yr support
<skellat> XP is well past that now, though.
<micahg> XP ends its life support in April
<pleia2> XP was an anomaly
<pleia2> MS will never support something for that along again
<skellat> Somehow it survived 11 years
<micahg> yeah, XP was only supported that long due to its replacement products not being good
<micahg> and the first "upgrade" took 6 years to get out the door
<skellat> micahg: Could you give us a bumper-sticker or three sized explainer on the derived distro notion?
<micahg> I'd rather avoid it :)
<skellat> Okay
 * pleia2 heads off to dinner
 * skellat recognizes it is now really, really early Friday morning in northeast Ohio
<skellat> Well, if we can come up with a date and time for our Xubuntu Huddle I will get it arranged.  My e-mail address is up to date on Launchpad.
<micahg> skellat: the basic idea is to use the LTS as a base and then override the packages that a flavor would want to backport for stuff that can't be backported
<skellat> Yep
<skellat> I've got a cat invading and I apparently need to get some sleep
<skellat> So I bid you good night micahg as I head off to chase down Shadow
 * skellat gets ready for bedtime
<ochosi> meh, kubuntu/kde - canonical flamewar is exhausting...
<Unit193> At least sabdfl got in on it. ;)
<ochosi> doesn't make it much less exhausting though for me
<Unit193> (Kidding.)
<ochosi> k :)
<micahg> knome: did you want me to add xfce4-* to the supported seed?
<knome> micahg, yes, if you think that's doable for our team
<micahg> there aren't too many, it just means that we're open to bugs and obligating ourselves to fix issues
<knome> i think that sounds good, but since i'm not able to fix bugs, i need your evaluation if it's doable/needed
<bluesabre_1> knome secretly advises me and ochosi on how to fix the bugs in our projects
<bluesabre_1> don't let him fool you micahg
<knome> hah.
<LaserJock> hi all. I installed Xubuntu 12.10 this week after a year or two of not touching *buntu and I wanted to say it really rocks. You've done a fantastic job.
<pleia2> thanks LaserJock <3
<LaserJock> so I read on the blog that for 13.04 you're going to 1GB, is there more going on there than GIMP and Gnumeric?
<pleia2> some languages
<pleia2> part of the change is we didn't want to make micahg spend all his nights and weekends scrambling for space anymore, so leaving several (even hundred) megs free helps a lot
<LaserJock> sure
<micahg> LaserJock: anything you think we're missing?
<LaserJock> not particularly, I like having Gnumeric on there
<LaserJock> I just wondered as I know how cramped things can get
<LaserJock> but since Xubuntu seems lighter I wondered why 1GB in particular
<LaserJock> but I know languages are always a big part of the space, are you going to ship more than Ubuntu?
<micahg> well, I think we decided 10 most popular since we have the space now
<micahg> the goal is to keep the image between 800 and 900 MB
<micahg> we're under 800MB ATM
<LaserJock> that seems nice. 700 is just not enough, but nobody wants to have to download 4GB isos :-)
<micahg> I offered to make a kitchen sink type DVD version with more stuff, but there didn't seem to be enough interest in testing
<LaserJock> most people probably just download particular set of "goodies" after install anyway
<micahg> 700 is only problematic due to the bloated core that we inherit
<LaserJock> yeah, I just wondered since Ubuntu still fits why you would go more
<micahg> nah, Ubuntu is at 800MB right now
<LaserJock> ah, I haven't looked for a while
<LaserJock> so did FeatureFreeze happen? (I'm looking at the release schedule)
<LaserJock> I've been watching the "big debate" on Planet Ubuntu but haven't tracked ubuntu-devel
<Noskcaj> scottbomb, how did you manager to get through the installer without any bugs?
<Noskcaj> *manage
<bluesabre_1> for me, the only guaranteed way to make it through an ubuntu install is to not install drivers or codecs at install-time
<bluesabre_1> but I'll be testing installation this weekend on my laptop, hoping for the best
<bluesabre_1> :)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre_1, that may be because that is one of the 4 bugs i can find in the installer ATM
<Noskcaj> to whoever has just added the progress bar in the xubuntu installer, thanks. could you put a marker in as to where the installation starts?
<micahg> bluesabre_1: if that's true, please file bugs with appropriate logs so the issues can get fixed
<bluesabre_1> sure thing
<Noskcaj> also to whoever added that bar, you didn't quite get it right
<knome> Noskcaj, i don't think it's anybody from the xubuntu team. it's most probably the ubiquity maintainers that did it
<Noskcaj> knome, ok, it only appeared today, i was wondering if it's ubiquity wide. i will check soon
<xnox> knome: Noskcaj: yes the bar is new.
<xnox> it has "progress dots" to indicate how many pages/steps there are.
<xnox> it looks good in ubuntu default theme (orange on black) but some other themes may want to increase contrast between background and progressbars.
<xnox> I can help with gtk+3 css vars that need adjustment.
<knome> ochosi, ^
<Noskcaj> xnox, the issue is it goes 1, 2,4,6,7 then ignores the second half of the installer
<xnox> Noskcaj: yeah, I spotted that as well. Needs fixing. I should file a bug.
<Noskcaj> yes, tell me if you do and i will add it to my report on the iso tracker
<xnox> bug 1152746
<ubottu> bug 1152746 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Progress dots, well don't progress after partman step" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1152746
<Noskcaj> xnox, does that bug include the skipping as well?
<xnox> Noskcaj: skipping is normal.
<xnox> Noskcaj: e.g. there is wifi step and if there is no wifi/internet already connected we just gain a dot "for free"
<xnox> (that's the 3rd one)
<xnox> not sure where the 5th one went though. =)
<Noskcaj> ok, and the 5th?
<knome> micahg, do we want to freeze more than what's freezed in FF?
<bluesabre_1> glad that message is for micahg, because that just sounds confusing
<knome> hah
<knome> we can decide to freeze xfce* for beta1
<knome> for example
<knome> or catfish, if we don't want bluesabre_1 poking in!
<micahg> knome: I was hoping to upload catfish and gmusicbrowser still
<micahg> and gimp
<bluesabre_1> +3
<bluesabre_1> catfish + gmb would be awesome
<knome> micahg, sure. if we dont', i'll reply to stgraber we're opting in for beta 1
<micahg> gmb and gimp I know I can do :)
<micahg> well, gimp I know I can do, gmb if I get a freeze exception
<bluesabre_1> btw, liviu got quantal and raring catfish packages into the ppa, https://launchpad.net/~catfish-search/+archive/catfish-stable
<bluesabre_1> heading out now, bbl
<bluesabre_1> have fun guys!
<knome> bluesabre_1, hf
 * micahg wonders what python-distutils-extra is used for
<micahg> I think I see the problem with catfish, it's installing pyc files instead of py files which is why dh_python2 chokes
 * micahg files upstream bug
 * micahg will have to talk to some python people over the weekend
<ochosi> xnox: ubiquity, css, gtk3, vars -> progress dots?
<xnox> ochosi: yes.
<xnox> ochosi: one sec.
<xnox> ochosi: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DU8LtP4EIjo/UTEADqZhCSI/AAAAAAAAAyI/WKWh5NbTC48/s754/049.png
<xnox> this is new ubiquity.
<ochosi> oh i see
<xnox> the "dots" are just very small progress-bars.
<ochosi> so it's about the bottom bar
<ochosi> yup, i get it
<ochosi> are those pixmaps or how are the dots drawn?
<xnox> it's a GtkProgressBar of size 10x10px.
<ochosi> ah :)
<xnox> so in ubiquity they look nice - orange on darkbg color.
<xnox> but in xubuntu/lubuntu they will be light on light color.
<ochosi> it should be blue on grey
<ochosi> that's fine imo
<ochosi> i assume we have no screener of that yet, right?
<xnox> well sure, as long as people can see which ones are full & which once are hollow.
<xnox> ochosi: i would love to get derivates to add screenshots to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity/SlideDecks
<ochosi> mhm
<xnox> ochosi: e.g. lubuntu/xubuntu/kubuntu slide decks =)
<xnox> such that when I work on the installer I can have a sence how it will look like.
<ochosi> do those progress-dots have a widget-name or are they generic progressbars
<ochosi> i.e. can i theme them independently or would i have to change the progressbars in all of ubiquity?
<ochosi> another question: this version of ubiquity is in the daily images already? then i'll simply download and test it, then i can also upload some screenshots for you
<xnox> ochosi: so its progressbars inside GtkEventBox called "progress_eventbox"
<xnox> ochosi: yeap, it's in the dailies.
<xnox> ochosi: I guess I should apply a better style name to them.....
 * xnox will ponder about it.
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> progressdots?
<xnox> ochosi: cause there is normal "progressbar" as well, still. Should the two have the same class/style? as ideally the two should match color. as both are progress "dots where where you need to do stuff, and long progressbar where you wait and get entertained by a slideshow"
<ochosi> mhm, let me test it and i'll tell you
<ochosi> as i said, i would assume that it should actually look fine in greybird
<ochosi> so most likely everything can stay as it is
<xnox> ok. but let me know if you want to style it better.
<ochosi> actually i'm not 100% sure that the two would have to match for consistency
<ochosi> progressbar != progressdots
<ochosi> progressbar is bound to time, progressdots are bound to number of pages
<ochosi> progressdots are accurate, progressbars are useless (often)
<ochosi> xnox: if i already have an up-to-date vbox of R, i could run ubiquity there directly as well, right?
<xnox> ochosi: for some value of run.
<ochosi> hm? sorry, how?
<xnox> ochosi: you can't complete the install so you can run it up-to partitioning.
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> yeah, i just wanna see it, that's all, so it should be fine
<ochosi> wow, 280megs of depends
<ochosi> not bad :}
<ochosi> it seems to pull in half of kde
<xnox> ochosi: you want: apt-get install ubiquity ubiquity-frontend-gtk
<xnox> to get the gtk one instead of kde.
<ochosi> ah yeah, much better
<ochosi> thanks
<pleia2> Noskcaj: when you have some time, I'm brainstorming a mailing list + blog post that would be an updated version of http://xubuntu.org/news/help-test-xubuntu/
<ochosi> xnox: btw, i really appreciate you hanging out here. i remember when i fixed that stupid compositing problem of the ubiquity session with xfwm4 you were a great help!
<pleia2> we no longer do untracked short/long tests like described there really
<xnox> ochosi: np. I pop in and go really, though ;-)
<pleia2> Noskcaj: draft here http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/jZSPPjyJ9K
<ochosi> xnox: that's fine, but these days any cross-desktop effort is highly appreciated! :)
<pleia2> (and anyone else interested ))
<ochosi> xnox: there you go, looks really fine imo: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03092013-120940am.php
<ochosi> btw, i assumed that the dots would work like a pager, i.e. not fill up one after another but have a moving dot that indicates only the current page
<ochosi> (libtool is installed)
<ochosi> oops, wrong chan ^
<Noskcaj> pleia2, looking at it now, i was busy trying to set a world record
<pleia2> Noskcaj: all I actually wrote was an outline of what I want to see in the post
<pleia2> this is my sneaky way of making you write what I want to see
<pleia2> :)
<Noskcaj> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-09
<Noskcaj> pleia2, is that enough or do you want bits copied from the wiki?
 * pleia2 has a look and makes some notes
<pleia2> oh, I was made admin of the G+ community
<pleia2> https://plus.google.com/u/1/communities/108369189560969273265
<pleia2> so we can probably officialize this one too (this is a community, vs a page which we already had)
<knome> pleia2, good good. let me tell if/what logo sizes/artwork you need
<knome> and yes, we should sort out the deviantart group artwork too
<ochosi> ah right...
<ochosi> forgot a bit about that one
<knome> me too
<bluesabre> micahg, it might be easier to get an FFe for catfish, since the one that is currently in the raring repos is broken
<bluesabre> (doesn't start)
<adnan> long time no see
<ochosi> hey adnan 
<ochosi> true true
<adnan> :)
<ochosi> madderni1k: ping
<madderni1k> ochosi: png
<madderni1k> +o*
<ochosi> is it possible to test plymouth's fsck check animation in the testbinary somehow?
<madderni1k> yes
<madderni1k> I dont remember how, lemme check my scripts
<ochosi> have you tested that with the circular spinner?
<madderni1k> I've tested all features
<ochosi> ah good
<madderni1k> ochosi: okay, so pass the command
<madderni1k> --command, option
<madderni1k> basically it looks for fsck being given to the status handler
<ochosi> ok, i'll just quickly wait for bluesabre to return
<madderni1k> so i supposed i lied, its --status=fsck
<ochosi> he does a real-install check now
<madderni1k> (problem is I dont have access to the laptops tests scripts :()
<ochosi> madderni1k: so yeah, the spinner and the progressbar overlap
<bluesabre> is it possible to hide the spinner if fsck needs to run?
<ochosi> i think it's easier to just change the coordinates of the progressbar tbh
<knome> yes
<ochosi> madderni1k: how do i run plymouth again in testmode? (forgot the commandline you gave me once)
<madderni1k> sudo plymouthd --debug --debug-file=/tmp/plymouth-debug-out ; sudo plymouth --show-splash ; sleep 5 ;  sudo plymouth --quit
<madderni1k> define overlap?
<madderni1k> iirc its 25px between them
<ochosi> the new spinner is circular and larger and further south
<ochosi> if you remember the latest changes
<madderni1k> oh ye, we moved it down
<ochosi> strange, the --status=fsck doesn't work
<ochosi> i added it after --show-splash
<madderni1k> think you need to do --update aswell
<madderni1k> i dont really remember the exact command
<ochosi> no, that also didn't help
<madderni1k> ochosi: found it
<madderni1k> sudo plymouthd --debug --debug-file=/tmp/plymouth-debug-out ; sudo plymouth --show-splash ; sleep 1 ; sudo plymouth --update=fsck: ; sleep 2 ; sudo plymouth --quit
<madderni1k> ofc the animation will be fubar, since one needs to send update integers along with it if you want the real thing
<madderni1k> but for positioning thats fine
<ochosi> weird, doesn't show anything here...
<madderni1k> try increasing the sleeps
<madderni1k> the second sleep to many 5 seconds
<madderni1k> it shows "Routine disk check" and the bar
<madderni1k> about 10px to high up
<ochosi> the progressbar goes straight through the circle
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03092013-011928pm.php
<madderni1k> fsck_progress_meter_sprite.SetPosition((screen_width / 2) - (progress_meter_image.GetWidth() / 2), (screen_height / 2) + (logotype_image.GetHeight() / 2) + 25);
<madderni1k> fsck_progress_fade_sprite.SetPosition((screen_width / 2) - (progress_meter_image.GetWidth() / 2), (screen_height / 2) + (logotype_image.GetHeight() / 2) + 25);
<ochosi> i know
<ochosi> i'm already tinkering with it
<ochosi> but i need to move everything along
<ochosi> incl. the password box
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03092013-012420pm.php
<ochosi> madderni1k: any way i can show the password-box too?
<ochosi> awesome... http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03092013-012614pm.php
<madderni1k> sudo plymouthd --debug --debug-file=/tmp/plymouth-debug-out ; sudo plymouth --show-splash ; sleep 1 ; sudo plymouth --update=fsck: ; sleep 1 ; sudo plymouth ask-for-password --prompt "spify password: " ; sleep 5 ; sudo plymouth --quit
<madderni1k> tbh, i didnt even think about this
<ochosi> is there an easy way to hide the spinner for fsck?
<madderni1k> i knew all the individual features worked
<madderni1k> ochosi: yes
<madderni1k> SetOpacity(100)
<ochosi> if ((fsck_running == 1) && (fsck_done_fading == 0)) { ?
<ochosi> you mean SetOpacity(0)?
<madderni1k> oh ye
<ochosi> meh, in which functions do i have to hide the spinner?
<madderni1k> ochosi: do you want to hide it when the password appears?
<ochosi> yes, and when fsck is running too
<ochosi> those two might coincide i guess
<ochosi> so just to be sure, always hide it
<madderni1k> in the showPasswordHandler and statusHandler when status_array[0] is equal to "fsck"
<madderni1k> reset possible in displayNormalhandler
<ochosi> do you have time to try this now?
<ochosi> cause i have a few more things i have to get fixed on the weekend
<ochosi> lightdm-gtk-greeter and a few more icons
<madderni1k> do you have the changes you've made?
<ochosi> they're not too great tbh, i mostly changed the coordinates of the fsck-bar
<madderni1k> ok
<ochosi> which won't be necessary in the end (hopefully)
<ochosi> and i added SetOpacity for the spinner in a few places
<madderni1k> i suppose i can just make the changes
<madderni1k> and upl
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> you can also pastebin them so we can test them in advance
<madderni1k> ok
<ochosi> thanks!
<madderni1k> ochosi: should i move password thing down
<ochosi> is it overlaying anything?
<madderni1k> if password is there
<ochosi> yeah, we don't want anything to overlap :)
<madderni1k> its just that
<madderni1k> im not sure that can happen
<ochosi> that means we should move it iguess
<ochosi> as long as we're not sure
<madderni1k> ochosi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5598756/
<madderni1k> that seems to do it on all accounts
<madderni1k> it even restores states if it comes to that
<madderni1k> So the spinner can come back, if you are done with fsck and password
<ochosi> ok cool
<ochosi> i'll test that in a second
<ochosi> madderni1k: that gives me a black screen
<madderni1k> ochosi: odd, it does not here
<madderni1k> no errors encountered in the log either
<ochosi> hmm
<madderni1k> ochosi: perhaps the pastebin corrupted something
<madderni1k> want me to upl to my server for fetching?
<ochosi> ok, why not
<ochosi> madderni1k: thanks, looking good now!
<ochosi> bluesabre: you still around?
<madderni1k> ochosi: THhere are 2 possible problems
<madderni1k> one of them is: the msgs one can get
<madderni1k> The "last 5 msgs" feature
<madderni1k> Might be overlapping something
<ochosi> can we test that?
<madderni1k> ye im trying to figure out how :P
<ochosi> ok :)
<bluesabre> hm what huh?
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> mind to quickly test the plymouth script?
<bluesabre> with my install?
<ochosi> i'd mail it to you, you save it in /lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-logo and then run sudo shutdown -rF now
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> sure thing
<ochosi> sent
<madderni1k> ochosi: i think msgs are okay
<madderni1k> it always uses the bottom
<madderni1k> So its fine
<madderni1k> :)
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> good
<ochosi> what is the second possible problem?
<madderni1k> well, the spinner_sprite doesnt technically have a sprite at first
<madderni1k> but its not a problem
<madderni1k> since it will have it before fsck or passw can appear
<madderni1k> Its just not very clean
<madderni1k> im concidering adding it for "being clean" purposes
<ochosi> i guess that's up to you, i haven't looked into plymouth enough to be able to judgew
<madderni1k> okay, tell me how testing goes, i need to do my workout and eat now
<ochosi> sure
<pjotr> Hello, does anyone know if Synaptic will be a default part of Xubuntu 13.04?
<ochosi> i'm pretty sure it won't
<pjotr> ochosi: Too bad.... I think it's an essential tool and deserves a place in the iso. Is there no more room in the iso, in spite of the new maximum of 1 GB?
<bluesabre> ochosi: that works
<mr_pouit> knome: micahg: I set up translation support for the two desktop files you uploaded https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/+pots/xds-desktop-files
<mr_pouit> (please do it when you add new "visible" strings next time, as my life seems meaningless each time I have to fight against translations.lp.net ;-)
<knome> mr_pouit, thanks, did the finnish translations
<ochosi> bluesabre, madderni1k: i'll push the updated plymouth script then
<madderni1k> roger that
<ochosi> ok, pushed
<pleia2> ochosi: did you want a spot in the magazine for an article? what topic? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Magazine2013 has current ideas
<ochosi> hey pleia2 
<pleia2> good morning :)
<ochosi> haven't really given that any thought tbh
<ochosi> it's 7pm here ;)
<pleia2> 10am!
<ochosi> what magazine is that?
<pleia2> a special flavors edition published by linuxidentity.com
<pleia2> in English (not French)
<ochosi> french is only my third language, so that's fine ;)
<ochosi> pleia2: at the moment i'm rather busy and the topics you still have there seem quite easy to cover, so if you can find someone else, that'd be great
<ochosi> beta1 is approaching and there's still artwork to fix and our greeter needs more updates
<pleia2> ochosi: those are just ideas people proposed, we're trying to find other ideas
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> hm, it's dinner time for me now
<ochosi> i'll think a bit about it and add topics if i get ideas, k?
<pleia2> thanks :)
<ochosi> great, bbl
<mr_pouit> knome: first ffe, Bug #1153038
<ubottu> bug 1153038 in xfce4-datetime-plugin (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Xfce4-datetime-plugin 0.6.2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1153038
<mr_pouit> freeze on thursday are really a pain since I've only time to work on ubuntu during week-ends these days...
<knome> mr_pouit, great... i assume i don't need to file the exception ? ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-10
<scottbomb> I'm testing the daily ISO. I noticed that with icon themes other than greybird, the oval-shaped background behind the icon names are back. I thought this was changed in Quantal (as it is on my Quantal systems). IIS this a bug or is it by design?
<scottbomb> I guess I forgot, I added a .gtkrc-2.0 script to my home directory a long time ago and somewhere along the line I thought that Xubuntu actually made it standard to have a transparent background on icon text. It would be a nice feature to have though :)
<micahg> mr_pouit: ACK, sorry, I'm not used to controlling translations
<knoppies> This probably isnt the right channel for this, but I've been trying to install xubuntu12.04.2 on an old laptop of mine which doesnt have working USB to boot from. So I've been trying to do a PXE network boot. SO far so good except that Im using an ubuntu netboot image, and so when I direct the installer to a xubuntu alternate install CD I get "No kernel modules were found. This is probably due to the mismatch be
<knoppies> tween the kernel used by this version of the installer and the kernel version available in the archive." Are there any PXE boot net installers for xubuntu (I cannot find any on xubuntu.org)
<ochosi> just to be sure: you're not using optical media because that old computer of yours doesn't have a drive, right?
<knoppies> ochosi, Im not using optical media because I don't have any discs to burn to (and I've had a high burn failure rate before, so I'd rather not go that route).
<knoppies> but it is still an option. someone also suggested using the built in SD card slot, which I might do too, but I would rather conquer PXE.
<ochosi> i see, that makes things more complicated then. tbh i haven't done your kind of install, i've always had some kind of medium...
<knoppies> I have done it this way before, but with ubuntu.
<ochosi> well if you manage you should certainly blog about it ;)
<knoppies> and I was using a mini.iso rather than a PXE boot image.
<ochosi> why not use that again and then apt-get install xubuntu-desktop?
<knoppies> I've got the PXE boot image working (took me over 6 hours to figure out the quirks of TFTP)
<knoppies> That did cross my mind, but it sounds like a load of unnecessary ubuntu on there. and I dont like the route ubuntu is taking.
<knoppies> s/route/path/
<knoppies> I've recently found this: http://tjworld.net/wiki/Linux/Ubuntu/NetbootPxeLiveCDMultipleReleases and Im thinking I might try setup an NFS server and give a try tomorrow.
<ochosi> i thought you could use the server-install and install xubuntu-desktop on top of that, that shouldn't entail any unnecessary crap
<knoppies> but it would be easier if a PXE install image for xubuntu already exists.
<knoppies> oh, I was thinking of using the alternate install. Maybe I should give that a go.
<knoppies> ok, I might give that a try then.
<ochosi> yeah, unless anyone else here can help you with pxe, try that :)
<knoppies> thank you.
<ochosi> well, i wasn't too much help unfortunately
<knoppies> I managed to get it to boot a liveCD over PXE using this http://tjworld.net/wiki/Linux/Ubuntu/NetbootPxeLiveCDMultipleReleases I have booted a xubuntu-12.04.2-desktop-i386.iso
<knoppies> My config isnt exactly the same as his, I setup my own bootp, DHCP and tftp server separately.
<ochosi> cool
<knoppies> The installation worked.
<ochosi> congrats!
<knoppies> Do you recommend I use the restricted video drivers or the open source ones? I used to install the restricted ones from my vid card vendor but then everytime xserver (or something else graphics related) updates my drivers start playing havoc with my sanity.
<knoppies> I've decided to stick with some drivers in the repo.
<ochosi> depends on your hardware
<knoppies> an ATI X300 I think.
<ochosi> i usually go with closed-source nvidia cause their powermanagement is better than nouveau (at least in my experience)
<knoppies> mobility
<ochosi> sry, my ati experience is years old...
<knoppies> then we are in luck, the X300 is years old.
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> yeah, but i haven't tried open radeon drivers in a long time, those will most certainly have improved
<knoppies> well I will give them a shot, see what happens.
<ochosi> yup, that's a reasonable thing to do
<bluesabre> micahg, any hope for catfish 0.6.1 in raring?
<len-1304> bluesabre, The current catfish is broken, so not including it is a bug.
<micahg> bluesabre: sure, need to talk to someone about it
<zequence> Is the default wallpaper set differently for the desktop and the lightgdm background? I'm guessing this is for the desktop etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-desktop.xml
<zequence> Well, for Ubuntu Studio anyway :)
<ochosi> yeah, xfdesktop uses xfconf, but recently received a patch to also inform accountsservice of a wallpaper change
<ochosi> (in ubuntu's repos)
<ochosi> and lightdm-gtk-greeter recently received a patch to pick up wallpapers from accountsservice
<ochosi> i think it might already be in the 1.6 release, but i'm not 100% sure now
<ochosi> zequence: ^
<zequence> ochosi: Ok, so we don't set lightgdm separately? I've noticed that changing user backdrop changes the greeter one as well
<zequence> But, isn't this a recent change?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> it is a rather recent change
<ochosi> so from the user-perspective you're setting the wallpaper for desktop and greeter the same way (through xfdesktop-settings)
<zequence> I'm trying to find where we might have set the default backdrop for the greeter, but I'm not sure if we've been doing that at all then.
<zequence> This is for the Ubuntu Studio DVD
<ochosi> there is a lightdm.conf file
<ochosi> but i think the background variable there isn't used anymore
<ochosi> you should be able to directly set the bg via xfconf/xfdesktop, even on the US dvd
<zequence> Ok, thanks for the info. 
<ochosi> yw
<mr_pouit> it's still used, when the user hasn't set a desktop background through xfconf
<mr_pouit> or when it's set as 600 because the picture is too sensitive
<mr_pouit> (so overally, when the user background isn't present/readable)
<pleia2> haydenbbickerton: thanks for the email!
<knome> did i miss something?
<pleia2> haydenbbickerton: any way you can re-save the .svg including all external pieces? it's looking for a /home/knome/tshirt_lyz_1.png
<pleia2> knome: yeah, t-shirt design submission :)
<knome> that's probably my mistake
<haydenbbickerton> Sorry! I'll try to do that. In the meantime I sent a .jpg of it.
<pleia2> haydenbbickerton: so I really like the idea, but we're at the mercy of custom t-shirt shops as far as our background color goes
<pleia2> it's very difficult (read: expensive) to get a good gradient shirt
<pleia2> particularly if you are specific about colors, I might even go as far to say as it's impossible
<knome> unless you have a specific (expensive) deal with a manufacturer...
<haydenbbickerton> Ohh, that sucks. Is the range of solid colors limited too?
<pleia2> very limited
<pleia2> so far I've found most printers support black and white :) but then it gets iffy
<knome> i wouldn't do any assumptions about background color
<knome> (on t-shirts)
<knome> many have *some* shade of blue, green, red etc.
<knome> but they can vary a lot
<pleia2> and it's never a pretty blue! :)
<knome> most of the times not
<knome> though i like the "blue" they had at a local shop... though that was closer to "petrol"
<pleia2> haydenbbickerton: trying to come up with things to not discourage you :) I really do appreciate you taking the time! and I'm updating the wiki now with these notes
<knome> yes, any help is definitely welcome!
<knome> (and hey haydenbbickerton o/)
<haydenbbickerton> Lol, no it's not a problem! I'm just redoing the shirt so that it doesn't have a gradient :P 
<pleia2> :)
<haydenbbickerton> knome: is that a question?
<knome> no, just a "hello"
<knome> if you don't mind, you can send the next proposal to our developer mailing list
<knome> !xubuntu-devel
<knome> we need a new factoid.
<knome> !xubuntu-devel
<ubottu> The Xubuntu developer mailing list information can be found at https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
<haydenbbickerton> Yes I will. I just email it to xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com right?
<knome> yes. though if you're not subscribed, we need to moderate
<knome> so if possible, subscribe first and it should get straight through
<knome> (unless the attacment is too big again, but we'll get notified of pending messages)
<haydenbbickerton> I'm subscribed
<knome> ok, then just sending an email will do it. thanks! :)
<pleia2> actually, we have a size limit on messages, it won't get through
<knome> right, is that something really boring (and small)?
<pleia2> haydenbbickerton: if possible, you can upload to this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Products
<pleia2> you need to sign in first (it's slooow) and then add it as an "attachment"
<knome> the wiki has been super slow today, again
<knome> they really should get away from moin and stop telling they "can fix it"
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-03
<pleia2> croatian http://spreadubuntu.org/hr/material/brochure/startubuntu-flyer-croatian-language-domagoj-cunko
<knome> cool
<bluesabre> alrighty, waiting for the upload now
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1286949
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1286949 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Please upload lightdm-gtk-greeter-1.8.2 to trusty" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> micahg, adding a ping for you here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1286954
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1286954 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Please refresh xubuntu-meta for trusty" [Undecided,New]
<GridCube> bluesabre, are you here?
<bluesabre> Gridcube, depends... is there a problem? :-)
<GridCube> this bug was marked as a duplicate https://bugs.launchpad.net/mugshot/+bug/1286243
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1284720 in Mugshot "duplicate for #1286243 mugshot fails at attempt to change avatar" [Critical,Fix released]
<GridCube> but i think is not
<bluesabre> it is, because of a typo on my part
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> excellent then
<GridCube> i said nothing
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> we should have a new version of that in the archive soonish
<GridCube> :) perfect
<micahg> bluesabre: sorry, got distracted
<bluesabre> thanks micahg, sorry for all the pings :)
<micahg> it's better that way, otherwise I forget
<micahg> yay, ppc64el fixed
<Noskcaj> bluesabre: menulibre 2.0.2 is in debian, with any luck i'll be able to sync when i get home from school
<bluesabre> micahg, great to hear
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: also great to hear! :D
<bluesabre> translators, want to give us a hand?
<bluesabre> I've just enabled translations on light-locker-settings
<bluesabre> https://translations.launchpad.net/light-locker-settings
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi, lderan ^
<Unit193> bluesabre: Not sure if it was olbi or Pjotr that asked about that one.
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, can't find it either, but now they know :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Don't forget slickymaster, he's so fine with translations, he even translated for me. :D
<bluesabre> ok, I'll keep an eye out for him
<bluesabre> alrighty, I'm exhausted, off to bed for me
<bluesabre> g'night everyone!
<Unit193> Good nighty.
<Noskcaj> knome, When you're next around, can you add a comment to bug 1282937
<ubottu> bug 1282937 in xfburn (Ubuntu) "FFe: Please package xfburn 0.5.0" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282937
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre: please add a pt_PT pot file to https://translations.launchpad.net/light-locker-settings
<lderan> bluesabre, many thanks :)
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: https://translations.launchpad.net/light-locker-settings/trunk/+pots/light-locker-settings/pt_PT/+translate
<bluesabre> lderan: any time
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre: thanks and translated ;)
<slickymasterWork> elfy: https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/menuchange/+merge/208763 reviewed and approved
<elfy> slickymasterWork: thanks :)
<slickymasterWork> good morning elfy 
<slickymasterWork> np :)
<koegs> morning, anybody using x11vnc in combination with light-locker? i have a problem there
<elfy> koegs: sorry - not me 
<elfy> knome: "Set up a list of applications we want to look at for automated package testing" going to postpone that to 14.10 - not going to happen this cycle
<elfy> slickymasterWork: all merged and synced now
<koegs> using x11vnc started via lightdm is not a problem with xscreensaver, but with light-locker :(
<knome> elfy, oki, fair enough
<elfy> why have you added gtk3 indicators? 
<knome> it was in the -t-features blueprint
<knome> if you think it's not appropriate, just remove it
<elfy> well - if we have that - why don't we have the other stuff is all :)
<knome> it used to be something else
<knome> but yeah, i agree
<knome> you do what you think is sane ;)
<elfy> okey doke
<elfy> generally I don't agree with putting specific 'testing' things on there 
<knome> yeah, that's okay
<knome> as i said, that action item used to be a bit more specific
<knome> and was changed to that
<knome> and i just moved it out from -features, because it's not appropriate at least there
<elfy> yep
<elfy> not sure if you saw - I started writing a blog thing for end of cycle 
<knome> nah, i don't look at the site every day
<knome> but good
<knome> just tell me when you want us to review/publish
<knome> or just publish yourself, you have the permissions...
<elfy> yep - going to be at cycle end 
<knome> mhm
<elfy> but I'd get someone to look anyway - just in case :p
<knome> heh, sure
<knome> just let us know
<elfy> yep
<bluesabre> koegs, please report a bug against light-locker
<knome> elfy, bug 1263355
<ubottu> bug 1263355 in libmtp (Ubuntu) "Unable to directly access files of any smartphone from Ubuntu" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1263355
<koegs> bluesabre, bug 1287171
<ubottu> bug 1287171 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "light-locker breaks x11vnc as service" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1287171
<elfy> knome: yep?
<knome> elfy, any specific reason that's linked to our blueprint?
<knome> elfy, seems to be filed with nautilus, and also, looks like it's a generic problem
<elfy> probably because I missed it yesterday when I went through the bugs 
<knome> and i'm not sure if we have anybody who could fix that bug :)
<elfy> there - gone :)
<elfy> knome: probably worth checking what's left :p
<ochosi> hm, so i see a lot of weekend-backlog, did i miss anything important?
<elfy> an enormous cake
<slickymasterWork> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> hi everyone
<slickymasterWork> I have to catch up also with the weekend's backlog :P
<ochosi> lderan: hey there! have you found some time yet to amend light-locker-settings as previously discussed?
<lderan> was just about to start it lol
<ochosi> hehe, good timing :)
<slickymasterWork> jjfrv8, commented on https://code.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8/xubuntu-docs/chapters-3-4-revisions/+merge/208951
<jjfrv8> slickymasterWork, just saw that ^^. Appreciate it :)
<slickymasterWork> no problem
<lderan> ochosi, just to double check, the light locker time out, i'm to make the slider go from 0 instead of -1 right?
<Noskcaj> menulibre 2.0.2 is in the repositotys now
<elfy> final package call went out
<elfy> and I finished writing a draft essay for the blog ... headachy 
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-04
<ochosi> Noskcaj: btw, did you refresh the xubuntu-artwork tarball yet?
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, are you about?
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, I've been testing the new version of menulibre and it's working well except there's still one thing I don't understand
<jjfrv8> i.e., what's the correlation between 'hide from menus' in menulibre and 'show' in alacarte?
<jjfrv8> for some launchers, there seems to be a direct correlation but not for others
<jjfrv8> e.g., under Accessories, I can click Show for Accessibility in alacarte and it will show in whiskermenu...
<jjfrv8> then if I click Hide from menus in menulibre, it will disappear from whiskermenu...
<jjfrv8> but if I unhide it in menulibre, it does not come back.
<jjfrv8> to get it to show again, I have to go back into alacarte. Am I missing something?
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: that is bizarre
<bluesabre> I notice that it happens with accessibility, but not with gnome-calculator
<bluesabre> I wonder if its some issue with items that are also in the settings manager
<jjfrv8> hmmm, maybe so. I didn't check to see where the launchers were, I was just trying to get some of the ones that were in the list to show up.
<bluesabre> since you were also experimenting with alacarte, does it fare any better?
<jjfrv8> as far as showing and hiding things, yes, it seems to.
<bluesabre> ok, I might have to look into that
<jjfrv8> I just tried Gigolo, which is not in Settings Manager, and it too only seems to work with alacarte 
<bluesabre> showing and hiding that app seems to work for me
<jjfrv8> hmm
<bluesabre> I suppose one thing you can try
<bluesabre> remove ~/.config/menus/xfce-applications.menu
<bluesabre> and then try it again
<bluesabre> might be an issue left over from the previous menulibre
<jjfrv8> wilco
<jjfrv8> no joy. I saw menulibre recreate the file but when I turned Hide from menus off, gigolo still did not show up.
<jjfrv8> I had to turn it back on with alacarte
<bluesabre> and I assume you're saving after the change?
<jjfrv8> yes
<bluesabre> ok, I'll take a look at that
<bluesabre> maybe I can make some sense of it
<bluesabre> or add a hack-tastic fix :)
<jjfrv8> :)
<Noskcaj_school> ochosi: I refreshed it on saturday. Check the bug to see if there's been changes since my last tarball
<Noskcaj_school> Still waiting for sponsors for it
<bluesabre> Noskcaj_school: I sent in my request to join PAPT last night
<bluesabre> not sure how long that takes to get approved
<bluesabre> if you're eager, I released mugshot 0.2.1 over the weekend as well
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/mugshot/0.2/0.2.1
<bluesabre> heh
<Noskcaj_school> bluesabre: I'll package it when i get home. Going to the #debian-python channel in OFTC and asking one of the PAPT admins should help you
<Noskcaj> mugshot 0.2.1 packaged, the d/watch appears to need work though
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, The people you have to ping to get PAPT access: scottk, p1otr, bzed. Some of them are in ubuntu channels too
<bluesabre> ochosi, lderan: added a method for light-locker restarting here: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~light-locker-settings-team/light-locker-settings/trunk/revision/42
<bluesabre> if you want to utilize that to make it so you no longer have to restart your session for settings to take place
<bluesabre> requirements: python-psutil
<brainwash> bluesabre: bug 1165266
<ubottu> bug 1165266 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "missing keyboard shortcuts" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1165266
<brainwash> fix released, correct?
<ali1234> that reminds me of something
<ali1234> xfce bug 10630
<ubottu> xfce bug 10630 in General "keyboard settings panel ignores state of "startup-notification" key when resetting to defaults." [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10630
<ochosi> lderan, bluesabre (and everyone else i guess): light-locker-settings just got uploaded to the archive!
<lderan> \o/
<knome> ochosi, thanks for taking care
<ochosi> well, i got lucky
<ochosi> this could've also taken days
<ochosi> brainwash: yup, that fix should be released already
<brainwash> I leave it to bluesabre then to close the report :)
<ochosi> lazy brainwash 
<brainwash> ochosi: looks like we can drop these files
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/xubuntu-default-settings/trusty/files/head:/etc/skel/
<brainwash> or keep them for people who like to switch back to xscreensaver?
<ochosi> i'd say keep them for now
<ochosi> i don't see a reason to remove them
<ochosi> there are ppl who might prefer the locking of xscreensaver
<brainwash> we dropped xscreensaver
<brainwash> yes, right :)
<ochosi> apart from it being butt-ugly, it works fine
<brainwash> and it's very light
<brainwash> lighter than light-locker :P
<ochosi> as is light-locker
<ochosi> so what's the diff of the two processes running then?
<brainwash> both processes are light I guess
<brainwash> but lightdm-gtk-greeter has a bigger footprint
<ochosi> well luckily that's not the part that keeps running in the background ;)
<koegs> will we be able to drop light-locker and use xscreensaver instead?
<brainwash> of course
<ochosi> i'll probably write a blog-post for xubuntu.org about the switch
<brainwash> ochosi: any idea regarding bug 998649 ? the mythbuntu package conflicts with the xubuntu one starting with 13.04, can we mark it as "won't fix" then?
<ubottu> bug 998649 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "package mythbuntu-default-settings (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/etc/skel/.xscreensaver', which is also in package xubuntu-default-settings 12.04.11" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/998649
<brainwash> a fix for precise/quantal seems to be very unlikely
<ochosi> yup, very
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> knome: ^
<brainwash> so fix for precise/quantal very unlikely -> mark xubuntu-default-settings as "won't fix"
<brainwash> ochosi: did you read bug 1286846 ?
<ubottu> bug 1286846 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "wiskers menu search/button placement" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286846
<brainwash> I like the idea of moving the search field and action buttons to the top, but making it the default.. not sure about that
<brainwash> please comment on this request
<koegs> what about changing the order of the buttons?
<koegs> if you have the whiskermenu on the right, the order is not ideal
<brainwash> ochosi: thanks for commenting
<ochosi> koegs: we're only talking the default setup here
<ochosi> ppl who can move the menubutton to a different position can also change the settings
<brainwash> pleia2, slickymaster: is bug 1255835 still occurring?
<ubottu> bug 1255835 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Incomplete Lanugage Support dialog on first bootup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255835
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: As I'll have to set a new VM box to confirm it, and right now I'm sort of stuck with a prblem ina database at work, I'll have to get back to you on that tomorrow
<slickymasterWork> s/prblem ina/problem in a
<brainwash> slickymasterWork: but the information dialog is nothing special, or is it?
<brainwash> do the (missing) language packages usually get installed during the actual xubuntu installation?
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: no, the language packages aren't installed during the xub install
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: to what information dialog are you referring?
<brainwash> about the incomplete language support
<brainwash> bluesabre: seeing that you did the latest changes to xubuntu-meta, could you also please take a look at bug 1279470
<ubottu> bug 1279470 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "xubuntu, lubuntu images missing secure boot packages" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279470
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: back then I didn't gave it to much importance since not only the install went through successfully but also it allowed to afterwards install the languages packages
 * slickymasterWork apologizes for the delay in the responses, but he's with an eye on the channel and the other in a server log 
<brainwash> slickymasterWork: thanks for answering :) I'm just trying to clean up launchpad
<brainwash> so nothing of importance :P
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: no problem. And thanks for taking care ;)
<pleia2> brainwash: yeah, I think so :( I won't have time to test this week though (not at home)
<Unit193> bluesabre: If you look at the bug brainwash linked to, the key is in ship-live.
<brainwash> pleia2: no worries! :)
<elfy> ochosi: I thought that we were having -messages and -network in the indicator panel, or is today's daily just not up to date
<ochosi> elfy: i'm not sure whether micahg merged everything for the seed and uploaded it yet
<ochosi> and -network is misleading
<elfy> ok - wasn't sure 
<ochosi> we're not actually using indicator-network
<ochosi> we're using nm-applet, which uses indicator-application
<elfy> oh - ok
<ochosi> which is still buggy (known issues of gtk3 indicators)
<ochosi> so it mostly falls back to a trayicon
<elfy> mmm - seems to be ok here - if that's what I've actually got :)
<Unit193> Downgrading indicator-application worked fine when I did it in VM.
<elfy> whatever I've got - is sitting in indicator plugin 
<ochosi> Unit193: downgrading to what?
<Unit193> The saucy one.
<ochosi> yeah, that's not really an option
<Unit193> For xubuntu?  No.  For elfy? Maybe. :P
<brainwash> we are still waiting for the ubuntu guy(s) to fix it =S
 * Unit193 is reminded of the "still waiting for" meme...
 * elfy has been downgrading elfy for a long time - he's looking to get to the 25 year old version and pin it ... 
<brainwash> The amount of launchpad bug reports is too damn high!
<ali1234> elfy: it works for you because you applied the workaround...................
<elfy> ali1234: aah - ok - I'm completely lost with the whole shebang 
<ali1234> i could be thinking of someone else, but it's the ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS thing
<Unit193> #!
<elfy> ali1234: I'd assume so - now I remember it 
<ali1234> ochosi: bodhi switched to lightdm with gtk-greeter :)
<ochosi> ali1234: oh nice :)
<ali1234> http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/bodhi-linux-300-alpha-release.html
<ochosi> they're also using greybird it seems
<ali1234> yes
<ochosi> and it looks like they're missing a session-badge
<ali1234> for the login screen - they use e for the desktop
<ochosi> for whatever session they're running (i guess e17)
<ochosi> yeah, but for gtk apps they still seem to be using greybird: http://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-53125f5c5e1919.84283754.jpg
<elfy> ochosi: do you have any idea why the mail reader in whiskermenu is a different size?
<ali1234> the icon?
<elfy> yea - helps if I write whole sentences ... 
<ali1234> also http://www.reddit.com/r/xfce/comments/1zfvve/giant_icons/
<ochosi> elfy: depending on what icon-size you're using that size might be missing from elementary-xfce
<elfy> livesession
<ochosi> well, i have no idea what the default setting is right now
<ochosi> you can show me a screenshot, then i can tell you
<ochosi> the size we'll be using in xubuntu is "smaller"
<ochosi> (aka 24px)
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/297220
<ochosi> as soon as xubuntu-artwork has been uploaded, this will be fixed
<elfy> cool - I shall pass that on :)
<elfy> thanks ochosi 
<ochosi> no problem
<ochosi> and feel free to set whiskermenu to use the "smaller" appicons
<ochosi> in the properties
<ochosi> as that'll be our default
<elfy> was pqwoerituytrueiwoq on the forum asking that
<elfy> my default is smaller already for the menu here
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> that guy should probably hang out on irc more
<ochosi> he submits many bugreports
<ochosi> most of them valid and useful
<ochosi> feel free to encourage him
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> I do - I mentioned the meeting Thursday there - as he was also asking about Software Centre being a default
<Unit193> "being a default"?
<elfy> in the list you see
<Unit193> [13:12:26] queuebot:#ubuntu-release: New: accepted light-locker-settings [i386] (trusty-proposed) [1.0.0-0ubuntu1]
<elfy> is that going to be in the seed - I assume it is
<Unit193> (Yes, I read the words above that.)
<elfy> the now known as words?
<ochosi> Unit193: yup, i know
<ochosi> Unit193: 15:52  ochosi$ lderan, bluesabre (and everyone else i guess): light-locker-settings just got uploaded to the archive!
<Unit193> ochosi: Heh, knew you knew, backlog there says as much.  Didn't happen to see that here.
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> but yeah, i'm happy it landed finally
<elfy> I'd not read the backlog - but I did then
<Unit193> Sooo, I'm going to call the upgrade a fail, fglrx doesn't work.
<ochosi> Unit193: having xorg problems?
<Unit193> Terrible res, bit fuzzy, and lag as if I was running mir.  Somehow I got fglrx to work, not really sure how... (Had reinstalled, swapped it out for -updates, and many others which all left me with a black screen, removing would get me the terrible display.)
<ochosi> and radeon doesnt work for you?
<Unit193> That was the first bit, terrible.
<Unit193> But, fglrx is fixed somehow.
<bluesabre> brainwash: re https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279470, need an answer to gilir's question first... and...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1279470 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "xubuntu, lubuntu images missing secure boot packages" [High,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> *buntu-meta are auto-generated from the current seed, so also dependant on that
<Unit193> bluesabre: See my ping?
<bluesabre> Unit193: yes, but that didn't make it clear as to what needs to be added to ship-live, unless I should actually look at ones that do work...
<Unit193> bluesabre: * shim-signed [amd64]  and   * grub-efi-amd64-signed [amd64]
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-05
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> Unit193: do you want credit for this one? :)
 * bluesabre feels a bit lazy
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://pastebin.com/kTikACG1 nope, you're good.
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> now I don't have a choice
<Unit193> Could comment on the bug too if you want. :P
<ochosi> ali1234: so much for bodhi-linux really using the greeter: "We are actually hoping to replace lightdm with the EFL login manager entrance before our release, so not much went into that one."
<knome> Unit193, see: #x, what package is that?
<knome> Unit193, or in other words, can you make a list of all packages that need updating with new version numbers so we are able to refer to that for T+1?
<knome> Unit193, i bet you remember that out of your head anyway.
<Unit193> Uh, no, no I don't, I didn't do the last merge, I have no idea!
<Unit193> :P
<knome> excuses!
<knome> really, it would be helpful.
<knome> when you have time
<knome> i'll let you delegate, as long as it gets done.
<Unit193> I can only think of -artwork and -docs, -default-settings generally doesn't need it.
<ochosi> ali1234, andrzejr_: oha, seems like they switched from just pushing pixbufs to indicators, so theoretically they should be able to show in different sizes now (bug #784055 on launchpad)
<ubottu> bug 784055 in indicator-multiload (Ubuntu) "compiz CPU usage increases dramatically when running indicator-multiload" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784055
<Unit193> knome: Where you want it?  Please not the wiki?
<Unit193> What page if so. :/
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes :P
<knome> or you can send mail to lyz@ubuntu.com
<pleia2> I saw that
<knome> yes? :)
<pleia2> I like wikis!
<Unit193> Even with how much I hate email, I'd almost prefer the second.
<knome> weren't you in progress to enhance that page anyway?
<pleia2> probably
<knome> heh
<knome> so makes sense to centralize data
<knome> put it in the lyz-cloud
<bluesabre> Unit193: added a comment, with mandatory extra words
<Unit193> Nice, checking.
<Unit193> Waaaait, I get subscribed, again? :P
<pleia2> oh right, I have on my list to figure out all the website stuff to update upon release
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> hehe
<brainwash> bluesabre, Unit193: thanks for taking care of this issue
 * Unit193 points to bluesabre.
<Unit193> 'Welcome?
<brainwash> I feel like I really should apply for bug control membership
<Unit193> we=?
<Unit193> knome: So I didn't know where to put it on the wiki, but I can plop it somewhere and break it.  Mockup is: http://unit193.net/pre-bump.html
<knome> Unit193, looks good.
<Unit193> Disclaimer, ochosi did the bump for artwork, and x-d-s didn't get one so I have no idea how that's done.
<Unit193> ochosi: Did you want -community in?
<Unit193> Updated it for a little post-release. :P
<Unit193> ochosi: xfpm: mouse over and get information; indicator-power: mouse over and it sits there, like it's eating glue.  I'm in favor of xfpm and am now getting rid of the other.
<micahg> ochosi: didn't merge yet, did update meta though, will do another pass on merges tomorrow, still trying to get a little work done before bed
<micahg> keep poking me until I do it though :)
<elfy> bluesabre: http://pastebin.com/VCHMJgwm
<elfy> knome: there is something wrong in image tracker world again - if you look at our upgrade tests, we have dekstop and LTS desktop, reports are being shown against both even if only reported against one
<ochosi> Unit193: right, but it's far more consistent to use the indicator in this case. also, if you have wireless mice/keyboards, it groups them nicely
<bluesabre> elfy, our menu system is set up to display things with specific categories in certain folders
<bluesabre> I can do more hard-forcing of categories in a folder though
<bluesabre> maybe making those items unremovable
<knome> elfy, hmph
<elfy> bluesabre: ok - I'm ok with that - what's the categorie to get something to show in Accessories :)
<elfy> I just think that if something to set up a menu - let's you put that thing in an area of the menu - then that is where it should appear - I might be being old-fashioned though :p
<elfy> knome: not at all sure how we can fix that - kind of screws up the reporting for us 
<ali1234> Category: Accessability, Core, Legacy, utility OR Filename: exo-file-manager.desktop, exo-terminalemulator.desktop, xfce4-about.desktop, xfce4-run.desktop
<ali1234> from /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu
<elfy> well - I guess that will all need documenting then
<knome> elfy, yeah, maybe talk with balloons? i'm not able to be around much today
<elfy> knome: ack
<schproodle> elfy, with vbox 'mouse integration' on would one be able to have the mouse pointer dragged to another workspace?
<schproodle> elfy, can't drag pointer or window to another workspace on my 14.04 vm
<schproodle> elfy, the vim has 'mouse integration' enabled with guest additions eh
<GridCube> i've noticed that there is no indicator of active virtual desktop on our new panel layout
<schproodle> GridCube, no switcher by default it seems
<schproodle> workspace switcher can be added of course
<GridCube> yes, but users who know nothing of virtual desktops will be baffled because their active windows will dissapear if the accidentally use the scroll wheel on the desktop, a thing that happens easily if you use a touchpad
<GridCube> :) we just need to add the switcher, or get rid of the extra desktop
<schproodle> I agree -- file a bug for ubiquity as the install window seems to disappear.
<schproodle> by inadvertent mouse wheel activation
<GridCube> but thats not a bug on ubiquity schproodle 
<schproodle> no, rather about how ubiquity is working xubuntu install
<GridCube> no, its just a feature that is currently missing a visual aid
<schproodle> that is what I suggested in the report or alternatively no other workspace, just one
<schproodle> as you appeared to imply :) if I read that correctly
<elfy> schproodle: that's entirely possible down to it being in a virtual machine - especially at the moment
<elfy> GridCube: that needs to be brought up in a meeting then
<schproodle> elfy, ok
<GridCube> elfy, k, can you bring it as i most probably wont be at any meeting thats held at the current hours
<elfy> if it fails in a hardware scenario then fail the testcase
<elfy> GridCube: add it to the meeting page
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> elfy, should i open a bug report for it?
<elfy> *shrug* 
<elfy> probably better to do a quick spec as to why there should be one 
<GridCube> ok
<elfy> it's not a bug as such - more a difference of opinion :)
<schproodle> Bug 1282719
<ubottu> bug 1282719 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "install window is not 'sticky'; scroll wheel makes it 'disappear'" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282719
<elfy> that again isn't a bug - but opinion
<schproodle> my opinion is that it would appear to interfere with an installation and add confusion to the process.
<elfy> and my opinion is that people should learn that the operating system they are using - uses the mouse wheel to change desktops 
<schproodle> just that GridCube recorded a similar concern here
<elfy> knome: ok - sussed that - I'll do 2 new testcases then we need to use those for LTS or vice versa, then I'll spend some time editing results now so we have real numbers
<elfy> schproodle: I don't have anything to do with what gets put on the panel - nor what is seeded - I am just one of a bunch on -team 
<elfy> I don't think it's an issue - but I don't care either what gets put on a default panel much as mine is never a default panel
<schproodle> just chatting about it with GridCube eh. :) Thanks for taking an interest. 
<elfy> :)
<GridCube> elfy, knome added a new and emerging item to the meeting wiki
<GridCube> i added
<elfy> thanks GridCube 
<knome> GridCube, do you realize that there was actually a lot of time to give feedback on the proposal?
<knome> GridCube, and that you approved it yourself in the meeting?
<knome> GridCube, and now you want to revert the decision?
<GridCube> no, i dont want revert the destion
<knome> GridCube, yes, it is what you are actually proposing.
<knome> GridCube, the workspace switcher not being in the proposal, and you approving it means that you are okay with no workspace switcher
<knome> GridCube, now you want to add it back.
<knome> GridCube, how is that not reverting the vote/decision?
<knome> please explain me, because i fail to understand
<GridCube> well, i did not notice it gone, and now i do
<knome> referring to our last discussion, is this the result we get when the experts show the team something?
<knome> they are too lazy or too uninterested to really try something out
<knome> and then they do a decision
<knome> and after that, come back telling "no, that's not what i want"?
<GridCube> knome, i always though that the workspace switcher was part of the indicators 
<GridCube> this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Whiskermenu
<GridCube> shows that indicators will still be present
<GridCube> so i never though they would get removed
<knome> for what reason did you think the workspace is part of the indicators?
<GridCube> i might be an ignorant then
<knome> it is not an indicator applet
<GridCube> because its in the same area
<knome> it is a separate applet
<knome> also, why didn't you ask, but just thought?
<GridCube> well its a different applet, not i know that
<GridCube> because i did not though of that, because i always remove it because i dont use multiple virtual desktops so i dont have it present
<elfy> regardless of whether people should or shouldn't have done something - we're now not giving anyone any indication of what's going on - anywhere - that said I don't care 
<GridCube> knome, also im not attacking the panel in no way, im just saying that i, and maybe others, overlooked this
<knome> GridCube, what does the overlooking tell about?
<knome> elfy, i'm not sure i follow your comment..
<elfy> that people are tired imo
<knome> tired of what?
<GridCube> knome, that not everyone is on the same page on everything ever
<elfy> just tired tired knome :)
<elfy> people miss things 
<elfy> people are people
<knome> GridCube, so, are you saying that when the team proposes, they should specifically mention every little detail they changed?
<knome> if it's something that is so interesting/important, maybe it shouldn't have slipped under everybody's sight.
<GridCube> knome, why are you attacking me?
<GridCube> if its not then it will be disregarded on the meeting
<knome> GridCube, i'm not attacking you. i'm just trying to make you see how this looks from my point of view
<GridCube> I sincerely don't like the way you are pushing me. I'm just trying to say something i've not seen being said before. 
<knome> GridCube, it's not the first time you are noticing something has changed and jumped on the team for changing things
<GridCube> knome, i have never had the intention to attack anyone
<knome> GridCube, i'm also sharing the frustration with ochosi
<knome> he did the proposal months ago
<knome> nobody looked at it
<knome> then when it was proposed in the meeting, everybody agreed on it
<knome> and after that, people have several times came back and said "this change is wrong"
<knome> even if they participated in the meeting and approved the changes
<knome> can you even consider how that feels for ochosi?
<GridCube> yes, I see what you mean knome 
<knome> i agree that this might have escalated too quickly and too far, but seriously, the team and others had months to give feedback
<knome> then it was officially approved
<knome> and only after that we get the feedback and "oh this is not good"
<knome> and please don't say i'm attacking you
<brainwash> we should explain at least why it is gone, in the FAQ for 14.04
<knome> i'm just pointing out that this isn't the way we are supposed to work
<knome> brainwash, is it a FAQ?
<brainwash> it will be :)
<GridCube> knome, it will be
<knome> GridCube, how do you know?
<knome> you said you don't use it
<knome> how can we predict anything?
<knome> it's sad that this is brought up now, and not before
<knome> i can understand the rationale
<knome> but i can't agree with the way and time it's brought up
<GridCube> isnt the time for testing the time to see what mistakes we all made?
<brainwash> nothing wrong with giving feedback after testing it
<GridCube> :/
<knome> brainwash, except that there was months to see the proposal, and one could expect people to test something before they vote on it?
<GridCube> knome, i told you, i saw the proposal and saw nothing wrong with it because i overlooked the switcher
<knome> GridCube, i understand that.
<GridCube> i sincerely though it was part of the indicators pack
<knome> sure.
<knome> next time, please ask if you are unsure
<GridCube> i was not unsure
<GridCube> i did not know it was to be deleted
<brainwash> it's quite easy to overlook it, because many people consider the workspace switcher to be essential
<knome> i've changed the meeting item to a more neutral tone one "discuss..." from "needs to be added"
<GridCube> ok
<knome> brainwash, then if many people consider it essential, and it wasn't in the proposal, why didn't anybody say anything?
<GridCube> because we never though it was to be removed?
<brainwash> I did, but I'm not part of the team
<GridCube> nevermid, I have to go
<GridCube> good day to all and sorry for always being a bother
<ali1234> wait, you're removing the workspace switcher?
<brainwash> and I'm just concerned that we don't inform the users about why we removed the switcher
<knome> ali1234, proposed since months.
<ali1234> well, i don't really care about the default
<ali1234> as long as i can still install it
<brainwash> neither do I
<ali1234> probably better off without it for most people, tbh
<knome> well, the community is here to care about the default...
<knome> and i'm not saying it shouldn't be discussed
<knome> but there's something wrong with this way to make decisions...
<ali1234> where do these proposals and discussion take place?
<knome> vote and approve first, then go "oops!"
<ali1234> cos i don't remember it
<ochosi> the proposal and voting happened in meetings
<knome> ali1234, it was discussed and voted in a meeting, and has been available in the wiki for a long time
<ochosi> the proposal was put up on the wiki page
<ochosi> and there was a blueprint referring to it
<ali1234> how long are we talking? weeks? months?
<knome> not explicitly advertised every week, but it was there, and it was discoverable
<knome> it was up months.
<ali1234> remember i've only been here like 3 months
<knome> and in the meeting, people were specifically pointed to that page
<knome> and told to review it
<ochosi> ali1234: hah, now that indicators actually provide icon names instead of pixbufs hardcoded to 22px, the skype icon ends up in xfce4-indicator-plugin too large and is hence cut off :}
<ali1234> skype isn't an indicator tho
<knome> if any feature we proposed dropping was essential, why didn't *anybody* in the meeting notice it?
<ali1234> it's a tray icon
<ali1234> i dunno. was i at the meeting?
<ochosi> ali1234: nope, it's an indicator if you install the right package (sni-qt i think it is)
<ali1234> ochosi: cool, i didn't know that
<ali1234> the skype icon actually gets cut off when it's a tray icon also
<ochosi> ali1234: see how it's not scaled down anymore (which it used to as an indicator): http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-03-05-202925.php
<ali1234> but that's pretty standard with tray icons
<ochosi> will ping trevinho about that
<ali1234> hmm yeah that is quite a bit worse
<ochosi> just to see what is going on 
<ochosi> but i guess it's actually the xfce4-indicator-plugin not caring about sizes anymore, because it used to be hardcoded to 22px
<ali1234> it's probably some bug with the plugin
<ochosi> well, the code for scaling icons was remove
<ochosi> d
<brainwash> knome: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-02-13-19.01.log.html#l-128
<ochosi> because until recently, it caused more problems than it helped (fuzzy icons in all sizes etc)
<brainwash> :)
<ali1234> brainwash: ah yeah i remember that
<knome> brainwash, http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-02-13-19.01.log.html#l-190
<ali1234> i assumed when dropping the bottom panel, all stuff actually on it would get moved to the top :)
<ochosi> heh, that's crazy though
<ochosi> all the launchers
<brainwash> so yeah, I did not bother to ask again about it, because it was already too late back then
<ali1234> well i assume the window list will be on the top panel?
<knome> ali1234, assumed because...?
<knome> brainwash, i'm sorry, that was a bit emotional response
<ali1234> knome: assumed because the bottom panel contains the task list and the desktop would be useless without it?
<ochosi> ali1234: no, not true
<ochosi> the bottom panel only contained launchers
<knome> ali1234, the top panel was specifically said to include that though
<knome> right, that's true
<ali1234> (launchers and workspace switcher...)
<ochosi> the task-list has been in the top panel for ages
<ali1234> i assume?
<ochosi> yeah, just saying
<ali1234> is there a proposal on which indicators to ship yet?
<ochosi> yup, it's also noted on the wiki-page
<ali1234> which wiki page?
<ochosi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Whiskermenu
<ali1234> that page seems badly named :/
<ochosi> yeah, well initially it was considered that the panel layout would stand and fall with the inclusion of whiskermenu
<ochosi> so i kept using it, since ppl already knew it was there
<ali1234> i don't think we should ship with indicators explicitly hidden in the config
<ochosi> well the appmenu simply doesnt work
<ali1234> hmm good point
<ali1234> does hiding it actually make it not crash though?
<ochosi> (i also put it there out of tradition, as indicator-plugin always shipped with that one blacklisted)
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> never crashed here, anyway
<ali1234> ok fair enough, +1 on that
<ochosi> can't say it can't happen
<ali1234> that all seems reasonable
<ochosi> thanks, it's not like i didn't take time to think about these things
<ochosi> and i also tried to discuss them with ppl
<ali1234> datetime has the config panel issues, printers is going away
<ochosi> but it's hard to get ppl to test things ahead of time
<ali1234> i don't think there's any others really except stuff like cpufreq and china-weather etc
<ali1234> oh and session, which also has issues
<ochosi> yeah, session has too many issues
<ochosi> would need many patches
<ali1234> i'm not really convinced about the bold clock - i tend to think everything should use exactly the same font unless it is really important
<elfy> eevening ochosi 
<ochosi> hi elfy 
<ali1234> but i'll probably end up using datetime anyway cos i prefer it's calendar
<ochosi> datetime has terrible recommends
<ali1234> yes it does and i wouldn't suggest shipping it
<ochosi> and a few depends that i personally dont like for a calendar-popup
<Unit193> ochosi: So does -power
<ali1234> it also doesn't work properly unless you hack the .desktop file
<ochosi> Unit193: which ones do you mean?
<ochosi> and yeah, i already read that you're against -power
<Unit193> Yes you did, and responded, I don't agree. :P
<ochosi> so, which ones are you referring to then
<Unit193> unity control, gnome control, etc, etc.
<ochosi> that's a recommend
<Unit193> I know, < ochosi> datetime has terrible recommends
<ochosi> and doesn't even effect us because it has " | xfce4-power-manager"
<ochosi> so that really doesn't count
<ochosi> datetime doesn't have " | thunderbird" afaik
<Unit193> When I tried to install, I had to use --no-install-recommends
<Unit193> Not been uploaded with xfpm yet, then?
<ochosi> well you go and check
<Unit193> Anywho, it tried to pull those in.
<ali1234> datetime has the added fun that it depends on unity-control-center and then doesn't even work because the unity-control-center applet is OnlyShowIn=Unity
<ochosi> hehe, exactly
<ali1234> it should be possible to make it show up in xfce-settings though, with the right .desktop magic. after all, nvidia-settings can do it
<knome> so, with a more or less brief discussion with ochosi, we're proposing the following in tomorrow's meeting:
<knome> re: the workspaces: drop the scroll-to-changed-workspace feature instead of adding the applet back to panel
<knome> re: the action buttons missing: change the logout icon in whiskermenu to be a generic "shutdown" icon to represent the action that many/most people use from that dialog better
<ali1234> that should be turned off anyway, it's horrible
<elfy> as long as I can tunr it back on 
<knome> rationale: we think these changes represent the spririt of the originally proposed panel layout the best
<knome> elfy, sure, if you want.
<ali1234> what about turning off those couple of things requested on the xfce mailing list?
<knome> when have we hardcoded any settings?
<ali1234> window shade and something else?
<ochosi> yeah, i don't mind turning off shading
<knome> another discussion, take it up with ochosi 
<knome> for the record, ok for me as well
<ali1234> "save session" - that was the other
<knome> guess we could also talk about changing window transparency with alt+scroll
<ali1234> that no longer works
<knome> okay
<knome> then let's not discuss it
<ali1234> alt+scroll zooms in now
<knome> unless somebody wants to reintroduce it
<ali1234> (if compositor is enabled, same goes for transparency though)
<knome> so zoom+transparency on alt+scroll?
<ali1234> yes but zooming gets the event first so the transparency change doesn't happen
<knome> okay
<ali1234> i didn't even know the transparency thing existed
<knome> do you happen to know how to turn *both* features off?
<ali1234> yeah, turn off compositing
<knome> ...without turning off compositing
<ali1234> you can't
<knome> even with an xfconfig key?
<ali1234> transparency change is also bound to horizontal scrolling, but most people don't have that
<ali1234> well you could make your alt key not be alt, but that would break quite a lot of other stuff...
<knome> sounds like a bug to me, deceived as a feature :)
<knome> there definitely should be a way to disable both/either of those features
<ali1234> zooming is bound to scroll + whatever key you set for easymove/resize
<ali1234> yes, i agree, patches welcome
<ali1234> the key should also be independently configurable
<knome> well you know i'm not a programmer
<knome> i can file a bug (if not before, after the T cycle)
<ali1234> i do now :)
<knome> yep
<knome> i'll see when i have the time and motivation to file that bug
<knome> but it does seem like a bit meh, considering much more is configurable in xfce
<knome> it doesn't necessarily have to be in a GUI, but some key for it could be nice
<ali1234> i didn't know how to make a configuration option
<knome> not blaming you
<knome> besides, my original problem was with the transparency stuff anyway
<knome> so it existed before your patch...
<knome> off for now
<knome> see you all later
<ochosi> Unit193: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/indicator-power/recommend-xfce4-powermanager/+merge/207018
<ochosi> approved but not yet merged
<ochosi> so anyway, i'm sure this will go into the final release
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-06
<ochosi> Unit193: FYI, -power will land today with the xfce4-powerman recommend
<elfy> knome: ok - did the new testcases, then I've deleted the original results from LTS tests and then moved them all to real LTS results - so the tracker numbers and bugs are all at least correct
<elfy> ochosi: thanks :)
<ochosi> just FYI, i made the icons in whiskermenu for screen-locking and the shutdown-dialog a bit more obvious: http://imagebin.org/297523
<knome> elfy, nice :)
<elfy> that really really annoyed me lol
<bluesabre> ochosi: nice
<bluesabre> gotta go, bbl
<elfy> bluesabre: cya later - but did you see that paste from me yesterday?
<bluesabre> elfy, yeah, we even both responded to it
<elfy> lol ok 
<bluesabre> I'll get that fixed tonight or tomorrow
<elfy> I'll better look at the scrollback ... sorry 
<elfy> have a good day :)
<bluesabre> thanks, you too
<ochosi> jjfrv8: as i just closed that workitem for myself, xfdesktop docs are at: http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/4.11/start
<knome> brainwash, updated bug 1155151
<ubottu> bug 1155151 in parole (Ubuntu) "Can't play an OGV file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155151
<ochosi> knome: xubuntu-artwork was just updated, the latest whiskermenu icon changes aren't in yet (just FYI)
<ochosi> but at least our plymouth theme should say 14.04 now
<ochosi> Unit193: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/indicator-power/12.10.6+14.04.20140306-0ubuntu1
<jjfrv8> knome, I won't be able to make the meeting today. I don't know if we still need the agenda item about Settings Manager in Whisker Menu
<jjfrv8> knome, if you're okay with how it reads/looks in my latest MP, we can just go with that. Unless you want to open it up at the meeting
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I'll substitute those new whisker icons in the docs once I can get a copy of the png's
<jjfrv8> bbl
<ochosi> jjfrv8: the original svgs are already on github, if you wanna grab them from there and convert them
<schproodle> elfy, http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/306/builds/55995/testcases/1580/results does not seem to correspond the settings program in 14.04 daily
<starrats> Got a question for all or any of you wonderful developers of 14.04.
<starrats> When I do my daily updtes and dist-upgrades, are the older ones removed?
<ali1234> older whats?
<starrats> the older update/upgrades
<ali1234> mostly
<ali1234> not old kernels though
<starrats> I know the old kernel stays but just other things like the newer ones replace the older ones can't think of an example at the moment, sorry
<starrats> ah okay thank you
<neyder_> hi there!
<knome> neyder_, hello
<neyder_> i have an upgrade deployement fron 12.04 to 14.04 so I want to help testing Xubuntu (bases system to install education packages)
<knome> talk with elfy; or more briefly, check iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<neyder_> ok :D
<brainwash> knome: can you please close 2 bug reports (won't fix)?
<brainwash> 1) bug 1173114
<ubottu> bug 1173114 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu Raring desktop uses Quantal wallpaper by default" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173114
<brainwash> 2) bug 998649
<ubottu> bug 998649 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "package mythbuntu-default-settings (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/etc/skel/.xscreensaver', which is also in package xubuntu-default-settings 12.04.11" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/998649
<brainwash> raring is gone and the 2nd bug has been fixed in the mythbuntu package
<knome> done
<brainwash> thank you :)
<neyder_> BTW (downloading daily) how can I develop a custom desktop session based in xubuntu? (school personalization with wallpaper and panel in bottom)
<neyder_> I do it copying my personalization in /etc/skel
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  6 18:59:49 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> #topic Open action items from previous meeting
<knome> #action ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status 
<meetingology> ACTION: ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status
<pleia2> o/
<knome> ali1234, ?
<knome> #nick ali1234
<ali1234> still waiting for the fixes from tedg
<knome> okay
<knome> #action ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues
<meetingology> ACTION: ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues
<knome> #nick micahg
<knome> #action     lderan to create the individual merge proposals for the basic Xubuntu tests 
<meetingology> ACTION: lderan to create the individual merge proposals for the basic Xubuntu tests
<knome> lderan, that done?
<knome> not that i remember seeing it, moving on
<knome> #action micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches 
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches
<knome> #action Noskcaj to be in touch with elfy on xkb-plugin testing 
<meetingology> ACTION: Noskcaj to be in touch with elfy on xkb-plugin testing
<knome> elfy, done?
<knome> #nick Noskcaj
<slickymaster> o/ sorry for being late guys
<knome> #nick lderan
<knome> slickymaster, you're fine. :)
<knome> #action     pleia2 starts working on getting the Processes wikipage updated and cleaned 
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 starts working on getting the Processes wikipage updated and cleaned
<knome> pleia2, shall we move this to the blueprints?
<pleia2> I should be able to get to it this week
<pleia2> I bumped it up in priority
<knome> okay
<knome> thanks, will keep it in the agenda then
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> use #info and #action as appropriate please
<knome> #info knome worked on the flyer, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects/Flyers for progress
<pleia2> #info got a few more translations of the startubuntu flyer http://xubuntu.org/marketingresources/
<knome> pleia2, did you catch the finnish one yet?
<pleia2> nope
<knome> let me dig that up
<knome> http://spreadubuntu.org/fi/material/poster/startubuntu-xubuntu-juliste-a4
<pleia2> great, thanks
<knome> any other updates?
<GridCube> :)
<knome> i know people have been working on this and that, but can't really remember it all
<knome> okay, let's list them on the next meeting then
<GridCube> i don't know if we are going to do the desktop features things or not
<GridCube> i have not made any changes on the deviartart page because i don't know how that will go on
<knome> let's discuss that soonish
<GridCube> ok :)
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> #info UI freeze in a week, Documentation string freeze in two
<knome> #topic Agenda
<knome> #subtopic Start the discussion on the technical review for the Strategy Document 
<knome> carrying on
<knome> #subtopic 12.04 > 14.04 upgrades, removing xscreensaver 
<knome> who added, what do we want to discuss?
 * GridCube doesnt know
<knome> thanks for the insightful comment :P
<knome> carrying on
<knome> #subtopic Discuss adding the workspace switcher applet to our new panel layout (Rationale)
<knome> i have info on this
<knome> so, based on the feedback on the panel layout, we've decided to do two things:
 * GridCube does know who added that 
<knome> #info 1) we will disable the change-workspace-on-scroll by default
<knome> #info 2) we will make the logout button stand out more in whiskermnu, eg. change it to a "power on/off" icon
<knome> we feel that these two actions address the feedback and are most in line with the original proposal spirit
<knome> and should remove the problems/issues mentioned
<GridCube> :) i agree
<knome> GridCube, what was the "desktop" question?
<knome> #topic Other items
<GridCube> the desktop of the week project we wanted to start
<knome> ok, so it's coming up
<knome> i still need to set it up
<knome> keep on pinging me, i'll do it when i have time
<GridCube> :) perfect
<knome> we have basically everything ready for it now
<knome> but should do the last push
<GridCube> its not super important
<knome> and sort out the access-stuff, eg. who changes the desktop weekly
<knome> #action knome to work on the desktop of the week -stuff
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to work on the desktop of the week -stuff
<knome> oh, related
<knome> we need new screenshots on the frontpage
<knome> the screenshot(s) are smaller than the space we have because it's the old screenshot
<knome> and wordpress doesn't automatically create new sizes of old uploads when the media sizes are changed
<knome> so is somebody willing to boot up saucy and do a few screenshots?
<GridCube> i can take screenshot of my vbox using the new wallpapers
<GridCube> i can have a bunch tomorrow 
<knome> we probably want to advertise those only just before the release
<knome> so it's good to have them, but at this point, i'd like some default shots from saucy
<knome> (we don't want people to think trusty is out yet)
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> ok, i dont have any saucy sorry
<knome> somebody willing to boot up a default saucy and take some screenshots?
<slickymaster> I'll do it tomorrow knome 
<Noskcaj> xubuntu-artwork 14.04.0 is now in trusty
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Shouls pexpect be a depend or reccomend, i just realised i had never added it to d/control for catfish
<knome> slickymaster, ok, thanks
<GridCube> i have to go now
<GridCube> :) 
<slickymaster> I'll ping later today regarding what specifc screenshots you require
<slickymaster> or better, of what?
<knome> slickymaster, just default saucy desktop, shot with thunar and something else open
<brainwash> Noskcaj: looks like it won't start without pexpect
<knome> and if you want, more
<slickymaster> okie dokie knome 
<knome> anything else for the meeting?
<slickymaster> I'll spam your mail :P
<knome> worksforme
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  6 19:22:36 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-03-06-18.59.moin.txt
<knome> thanks.
<pleia2> thanks knome 
<knome> hmpf, next meeting next weeks WED
<knome> to be one day ahead of UIF
<slickymaster> thanks knome 
<knome> minutes are up
<ochosi> crap, that was a quick meeting :/
<ochosi> thought i'd arrive late, not too late...
<Noskcaj> Did we have time to discuss any extra 4.11 parts wanted?
<brainwash> are there any left?
<ochosi> i think we might want another bugfix release for the indicator-plugin
<ochosi> hopefully upcoming in one or two weeks
<ochosi> Noskcaj: do you think you could prep another xubuntu-artwork upload early next week?
<ochosi> i've done some final changes that didn't go into this upload
<Noskcaj> Just let me know when it's fully ready
<ochosi> great, thanks
<slickymaster> bbl ->
<ochosi> i'll try to take care of shimmer-themes myself
<ochosi> or find someone to do it
<ochosi> still need to do a few releases for that this weekend
<ochosi> then we're UI freeze ready
<ochosi> from my POV
<elfy> sorry - missed that completely
<ochosi> elfy: seems like most did
<Noskcaj> for better or worse, xfdesktop wins most active bug for 14.04
<brainwash> glad that we have apport, otherwise we wouldn't have noticed this bug so early :)
<brainwash> that reminds me of the users-admin segfault on exit
<Noskcaj> brainwash, You said you were applying for bug control soon. good luck for that.
<brainwash> thanks, still need to write my application =S
<ochosi> hah, for a second i thought you were writing an app :)
<brainwash> wrong wording?
<ochosi> nah
<brainwash> oh, and we need to merge the abiword fixes (ruler + crash when saving as pdf)
<brainwash> now that we got the fixes (svn commits)
<brainwash> ochosi: just noticed that the nm-applet indicator icon isn't monochrome anymore
<brainwash> icon theme from PPA
<ochosi> you have to be a bit more specific
<ochosi> it's still monochrome here
<Noskcaj> good work on the xubuntu-artwork icons, the new terminal one is definitely better
<ochosi> thanks
 * ochosi tries
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> brainwash: you have to be a bit more concrete about the nm-applet icon problem, cause i don't see it here
<ochosi> Noskcaj: xfce4-indicator-plugin 2.3.1 has been released, that'd be a bugfix we want
<Noskcaj> just packaged it then
<Noskcaj> but i have to go to school now
<ochosi> k, cya
<ochosi> and hf @school
<Rosenholter> I'm new to all this Linux, so i wanna learn how to "code". Any advice?
<holstein> why not just use the OS a bit? maybe try and work with some bugs..
<ochosi> bugfixing is usually a good way to start
<ochosi> depends on what you wanna work on in general though
<Rosenholter> bu ti don't got any idea of how to do it?
<Rosenholter> don't you know a website for a newbie?
<ochosi> there are tons, again, depends on what you want to work on
<holstein> Rosenholter: are you using the OS?
<Rosenholter> i just want to learn how to use it?, i think ..... but im not using it right now?,
<holstein> Rosenholter: as i suggested, i would start with using the operating system.. then, as i and ochosi suggested, the bug system is a great place to start
<Rosenholter> holstein: okay, ill boot it up and be right back!
<brainwash> ochosi: yeah, I'll try to find out why the wired nm icon isn't monochrome anymore
<brainwash> cannot remember that I've changed anything other than switching back to the daily PPA some days ago
<ochosi> what does it look like?
<brainwash> blue arrow up, violet arrow down
<brainwash> other panel icons look ok
<ochosi> strange
<brainwash> booting the system now
<ochosi> that sounds like it's using a different icon from the theme, specifically that one of the notifications
<brainwash> I'll test with -dark and normal
<ochosi> ok
<Rosenholter> Holstein: Something went wrong... could boot suddently...
<holstein> Rosenholter: id say sorting out why linux wont boot there will be a great step towards learning it
<Rosenholter> Holstein: True that!
<knome> Rosenholter, generally, the "point me to a resource where i can learn X" -idea is not really working, because it all comes down to how you learn the best, and if you have motivation to learn
<holstein> folks dont typically put youtube vids of there terminal screens up, either
<holstein> you will find relevant python tutorials.. but, it really all depends
<Rosenholter> Knome: i got the motivation, i got the freetime... it's just the skill that's leaking. i just need a startpoint
<holstein> Rosenholter: start by using the OS.. and i dont mean just firing it up for a minute, i mean *use* it
<Rosenholter> Holstein: i could imagine, there is alot of distro's out there
<knome> Rosenholter, work on something that scratches your own itch.
<Rosenholter> I'll see what comes in mind first 
<Rosenholter> thanks for the advice guys!
<lderan> knome, not yet on the individual mp's want to add a bit to them & tidy them up before hand
<knome> lderan, ok, np, was just asking if i should keep that action item or not
<lderan> cool
<ochosi> lderan: btw have you tested bluesabre's last commits to light-locker-settings yet?
<lderan> not yet
<lderan> shall do so now
<lderan> ochosi, so far it is working okay.
<ochosi> lderan: great, what did you test so far?
<lderan> the screen time out
<lderan> shall test the light locker stuff now
<lderan> tho seems to be restarting it when i click apply
<ochosi> the light-locker stuff is essential
<ochosi> the screen-timeout didn't change
<lderan> looks to be working alright
<ochosi> so the light-locker settings get applied without restarting your session?
<ochosi> can you e.g. activate and de-activate it?
<lderan> yup, shall continue testing
<ochosi> ty
<brainwash> Noskcaj: can we get xfce4-appfinder 4.11 in? no ui changes, but some fixes and api related changes under the hood
<ochosi> guess that'd need a FFe
<ochosi> (and i'm not sure we want another 4.11 release that hasnt seen any testing)
<brainwash> it's just the appfinder, people will use the whiskermenu search now anyway :)
<brainwash> but you are right, the lack of testing is an issue
<brainwash> even for a small app
<ochosi> and the argument "it's just the appfinder" works both ways...
<ochosi> i'd rather get a FFe for lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings
<ochosi> if you wanna test something, test that
<brainwash> it fixes bug 1048805
<ubottu> bug 1048805 in xfce4-appfinder (Ubuntu) "xfce4-appfinder launches very slowly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048805
<ochosi> that at least gives us some extra functionality
<ochosi> maybe the fix for that could be cherry-picked
<brainwash> well, it fixes the issue for people who use overlay scrollbars
<brainwash> nah, not need to cherry pick it
<brainwash> no
<brainwash> but it's strange that no one confirmed my findings in the report
<brainwash> this issue (which also affects some other xfce components) made me stop using the overlay scrollbars :/
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-07
<Noskcaj> brainwash, If you're willing to make the FFe (including screenshot of the app working), i'll do the packaging
<Noskcaj> brainwash, If you're willing to make the FFe (including screenshot of the app working), i'll do the packaging
<elfy> Noskcaj: what's this? ACTION: Noskcaj to be in touch with elfy on xkb-plugin testing 
<Noskcaj> elfy, I'm still waiting for sponsorship on that one
<Unit193> elfy: Think leftovers that was taken care of 3 meetings ago?
<Unit193> Ah.
<elfy> Noskcaj: k - thanks
 * elfy forgets he read that
<Unit193> http://goo.gl/UPtH7i looks right to me.
<elfy> not to me it doesn't
<elfy> shouldn't the time be 7pm
<Unit193> DST
<Unit193> Everything gets messed up...
<elfy> I tend to set times to UTC 
<elfy> that's early for DST 
<astraljava> Unit193: Thanks for the tip re: ssh, now I set ServerAliveCountMax and ServerAliveInterval so that under a minute, without a connection, they die and free up the corresponding tab.
<ochosi> brainwash: tested the icon-bug in nm-applet yet?
<slickymasterWork> knome, ping. You around?
<knome> slickymasterWork, for a sec
<slickymasterWork> knome: it's quick
<knome> go ahead
<slickymasterWork> the screenshots you need, do you want thunar to occupied the all desktop or do you want the desktop also visible?
<knome> probably better that the desktop is also visible
<slickymasterWork> besides thunar, do you want what application?
 * knome shrugs
<knome> i don't mind too much, it'll be up for a month or so
<slickymasterWork> you said yesterday thunar and something else open, Do you mean simultaneously ?
<knome> yeah, or something.
<knome> use your imagination ;)
<slickymasterWork> thanks
<slickymasterWork> that's all, I'll mail them in a moment
<knome> or look at http://xubuntu.org/screenshots/ and see what we've done before
<knome> anything works
<knome> but uÃ¤m running
<knome> *i'm
<knome> see you later
<slickymasterWork> ttyl
<elfy> morning 
<elfy> what screenshots are we wanting?
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy, good morning
<slickymasterWork> see this -> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/03/06/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t19:14
<slickymasterWork> I already mail them to knome 
<elfy> oh 
<elfy> saucy is long gone :p
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I had to setup a box just for those
<elfy> slickymasterWork reminds elfy of a job he needs to do
 * slickymasterWork appreciates the reminder as he doesn't seems to remember what it is
<slickymasterWork> :P
<elfy> it doesn't involve chorizo nor chickpeas
<slickymasterWork> hmmm.. sadly
<slickymasterWork> but what is it?
 * elfy wants to check that a default panel is readable with the supplied wallpapers
<elfy> but can never remember what one actually looks like :p
<Unit193> astraljava: Sure, glad it helps.
<slickymasterWork> I'm not getting you elfy. Are you saying that you don't remember how a panel looks like?!
<slickymasterWork> hey Unit193, morning
<Unit193> Howdy.
<slickymasterWork> or are you referring to the wallpapers?
<elfy> nvm - I also forgot that a default panel isn't completely see through :p
<slickymasterWork> not quite elfy, that's configurable
<elfy> yes I know it is :)
<elfy> mine is completely see through ... 
<slickymasterWork> mine also :)
<slickymasterWork> ohhhh, now I see, elfy. You were not talking about something that I needed to do, but rather about something you needed to do
<slickymasterWork> silly slickymasterWork 
<elfy> yea - sorry - head is elsewhere ... again
<slickymasterWork> knome, as you must have probably forgotten, you still have these three MP hanging: 1) https://code.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8/xubuntu-docs/chapters-3-4-revisions/+merge/208951 2) https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/208035 and 3) https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs/new-appendix/+merge/207310
<brainwash> ochosi: yes, your commit fixed it, thanks
<jjfrv8> afternoon, slickymasterWork 
<AussieDownUnder> I must say, I'm impressed how if Windows crashes & I try to boot to xubuntu first, it won't mount the drives windows was using at the time until I re-boot to Windows for whatever reason it is that Windows fixes something before I can use those drives in xubuntu, I figured it's a safety feature to save hard drive corruption or data loss on those hard drives. Can anyone tell me the rifght info if I'm wrong?
<jjfrv8> slickymasterWork, knome, I just pushed a new version of 1) ^^ that has a MenuLibre paragraph in it.
<brainwash> AussieDownUnder: hey, this looks like a general ubuntu question, please try asking in #ubuntu
<AussieDownUnder> Youre' clearly brainwashing me. I'm using xubuntu
<jjfrv8> knome, if you approve the proposed Settings Manager entity changes, we can get busy updating the rest of the chapters.
<brainwash> AussieDownUnder: both ubuntu and xubuntu use the same system components and serivces
<brainwash> AussieDownUnder: did the behavior change in Xubuntu 14.04?
<AussieDownUnder> brainwash, no idea, I went from Ubuntu 12.04 to xubuntu 14.04 beta.
<AussieDownUnder> What's more confusing is how different ubuntu or any of its derivatives look if you install & log in with that desktop stuff that let's you choose what interface loads, then the different distro looks the same as a different distro.
<brainwash> it's always ubuntu
<brainwash> so you can install any desktop environment you like
<brainwash> that is the reason why your initial question might be a general ubuntu one
<AussieDownUnder> forget it
<schproodle> 2 lightdm-greeter instances in taskbar after login on i386 daily
<schproodle> What's up with that?
<brainwash> ochosi: ^
<brainwash> schproodle: do you use the daily lightdm-gtk-greeter PPA?
<schproodle> qatracker iso test
 * elfy boots daily
<schproodle> so, no ppa
<brainwash> did you file a report already?
<schproodle> no
<brainwash> ochosi also mentioned this issue yesterday
<schproodle> yes, I thought I saw that yesterday gut something else went screwy with the vm
<Unit193> I saw it too.
<elfy> schproodle: install and login - or login to live session?
<schproodle> install and login only on i386 -- not on amc64
<schproodle> right click on entry in taskbar brings of a window --  not responding - selecting quit closes both instances
<brainwash> run "ubuntu-bug lightdm-gtk-greeter"
<brainwash> maybe we can get some debug hints from the logs
<schproodle> just did "erase and install" -- did not happen this time
<elfy> installing it in vm now
<schproodle> brainwash, ubuntu-bug may not be useful without the problem or is it?
<brainwash> you run it after the problem has occurred
<schproodle> ok
<brainwash> otherwise log files might have been overwritten/replaced in the meantime
<elfy> so what am I actually looking for here - is it easy to see
<schproodle> yes, two instance of lightdm-greeter in task bar but no window on desktop
<schproodle> if it happens again, I will try a screenshot.
<elfy> mmm looks same as ever to me
<schproodle> elfy, that is, nothing in the taskbar, correct?
<elfy> just indicators
<elfy> what's expected
<schproodle> I am installing another one for iso test now...
<schproodle> done, no problem this time.
<elfy> sigh ... thunar 
<elfy> bah
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy, as you're in testing mode can you verify something for me, please?
<elfy> I'm always testing - but I've not got daily booted
<slickymasterWork> ok, but I noticed that you've just setup a trusty box
<elfy> I can boot it 
<elfy> but I am about to afk for 30 minutes
<slickymasterWork> so, what I want you to test is the 'Help' button from Settings Manager -> Desktop
<slickymasterWork> it's just a matter of seconds ;)
<elfy> does nothing
<slickymasterWork> yeaps, just wanting to confirm it
<slickymasterWork> I already have the bug ready
<slickymasterWork> going to report it 
<elfy> ok - can confirm
<PaulW2U> elfy: 
<slickymasterWork> elfy, brainwash, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1289411
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1289411 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Help button of Desktop Settings UI doesn't open application's online help" [Undecided,New]
<slickymasterWork> going to file also upstream
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: ^^^
<slickymasterWork> Noskcaj, can you please raise the bug status of https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfdesktop/+bug/1289411 to 'Triaged'
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1289411 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Help button of Desktop Settings UI doesn't open online help" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<elfy> slickymasterWork: confirmed
<elfy> PaulW2U: hi
<PaulW2U> hi elfy, reading channel on the bus, went over a bump, clicked on something in error and attracted your attention, sorry  :o)
<slickymasterWork> thanks elfy 
<elfy> buses ... 
<Noskcaj> Is anyone else able to add a testimonial to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj#Xubuntu_PackageSet ?
<Noskcaj> micahg, ^
<brainwash> Noskcaj: any idea what's wrong here? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/168642293/buildlog.txt.gz
<Noskcaj> brainwash, Not really, can you paste you d/rules?
<brainwash> I'm trying to build https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/trusty/gnome-system-tools/fix-1185396
<brainwash> via (daily) build recipe
<brainwash> or should I try via dput?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, try dput, but i doubt that's the issue
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-08
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin/+bug/1237552 sure doesn't contain much...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1237552 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "xfce4-indicator-plugin crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke()" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<brainwash> ??
<Unit193> Not much debugging to go on.
<brainwash> the main report is marked as private
<Unit193> Someone in another channel just hit it.
<Unit193> Oh bah, it didn't tell me that bit, just the helpless "Are you lost?"
<brainwash> you need to be the maintainer or member of bug control :/
<brainwash> so it happened in trusty?
<Unit193> Saucy, 0.5.0 still.
<brainwash> oh, funny thing is, I was able to crash thunar today and apport redirected me to a private report
<Unit193> Able to view it?
<brainwash> that's somehow not that helpful
<brainwash> nope
<Unit193> Yep, dumb.
<brainwash> somehow I get the feeling that there are tons of private reports on launchpad
<brainwash> like dark matter in the universe
<brainwash> :D
<Unit193> Well, you're going for bug control, right?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, something like 50% of all bug reports from what i've seen
<brainwash> wow
 * Unit193 wonders if that's why lp is so slow. :P
<brainwash> Unit193: yes, I'll try
<Unit193> ...From what I
<Unit193> 've seen you just set to triaged and make it public. :P
<Noskcaj> Unit193, after checking the stacktraces, yes
<Unit193> Mhmm, suuure they do. :P
<brainwash> Noskcaj: so I've managed to build gnome-system-tools for my testing ppa, but I had to use quilt, dch, debuild and so on
<brainwash> isn't there a direct way for bzr -> ppa?
<brainwash> one that works
<Unit193> Eww, bzr.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Eww, git
<Noskcaj> ;)
<Unit193> git++
<brainwash> svn for the old skool heads
<Noskcaj> no, cvs for old school
<brainwash> oh, not familiar with cvs
<Noskcaj> bzr to ppa is what th recipes are meant to do, but they're a pain to make work
<brainwash> I will do some research to get it working
<brainwash> or at least understand how it works and what exactly is needed
<Unit193> Meh, recipies aren't too hard.
<bluesabre> brainwash: there are some tricks for recipes, need a hand?
<bluesabre> actually fixing some recipes this morning
<brainwash> bluesabre: I'll have to read the manual first, only tried to build gnome-system-tools via a generic recipe and it failed due to the missing patch integration I think
<brainwash> thought that it would manually convert the bzr commit into a patch file or something like that
<bluesabre> oh, shouldn't have to do that
<bluesabre> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/BzrBuilder
<bluesabre> you'll probably have to create your own debian/rules to do the custom builds steps
<brainwash> ah, that looks interesting
<bluesabre> so, for example
<bluesabre> I have this recipe
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/+recipe/lightdm-gtk-greeter-daily-trusty-gtk2
<bluesabre> which uses this custom debian
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trusty-debian-gtk2
<bluesabre> probably have to edit debian/control too since the pre-build steps will probably require gnome-common and other packages
<brainwash> mmh, but the greeter does not have any debian/patches
<bluesabre> if it did, they would just get applied pre-build
<brainwash> ok, I'll test it again, shouldn't be that complicated to fix it :)
<brainwash> thanks
<bluesabre> good luck
<brainwash> can we fix the pending issues for mugshot? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mugshot
<bluesabre> yeah, on my todo list for this weekend
<bluesabre> all of my daily builds have been failing for a while, trying to resolve those before anything else
<brainwash> for all your apps?
<brainwash> only noticed the greeter build failures
<bluesabre> most of them.  Mainly because I removed the native packaging from all the python apps
<bluesabre> so bzr-dailydeb is like, ok what do I do with this?
<bluesabre> mugshot's been failing
<bluesabre> menulibre is pointing at the wrong branch
<bluesabre> >.>
<bluesabre> none of the stable ppas have been updated for a while
<bluesabre> except the greeter, but only for trusty
<bluesabre> I've been slacking
<bluesabre> or something :)
<brainwash> did people complain?
<bluesabre> nope
<bluesabre> nobody notices
<bluesabre> they just don't get updates
<bluesabre> :)
<brainwash> "where is my daily update?!"
<brainwash> :D
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> it might also be because I haven't made any release announcements
<bluesabre> going to spend tomorrow doing those
<bluesabre> also, gotta help satya get gtk-theme-config to support translations
<bluesabre> suppose I should do that first
<brainwash> it's a python app, right?
<bluesabre> vala
<bluesabre> so, gotta learn a bit too
<brainwash> vala seems like a great modern language
<bluesabre> I should start porting some apps to vala soon
<bluesabre> easy to read, compiles to C
<brainwash> python -> vala?
<bluesabre> for some apps anyway
<bluesabre> like mugshot would benefit most likely
<brainwash> it would? how?
<bluesabre> small apps should have small footprints
<bluesabre> python brings some weight
<brainwash> you mean the extra dependencies?
<bluesabre> during runtime
<brainwash> or runtime
<brainwash> oh
<bluesabre> ochosi was complaining that light-locker-settings consumes more memory than xfce4-settings :)
<bluesabre> its a tradeoff.  Python can be quickly developed and it does everything great
<brainwash> but that's also gtk3 vs gtk2, or?
<bluesabre> that, but mainly python's memory consumption
<bluesabre> I'll never port menulibre or catfish for instance, too script-like, python is a perfect match
<bluesabre> but for something like the xfce4-keyboard-overlay, that would definitely be better as a compiled language
<bluesabre> so I'll be porting the work I've done for that to vala
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/xfce4-keyboard-overlay/trunk
<brainwash> but it can be still done in python and work fine =S
<bluesabre> definitely
<bluesabre> but it can be faster and lighter
<bluesabre> I freaking love python, but there are some things better for other languages
<bluesabre> like parole, for instance
<bluesabre> though, it would be easier to fix its bugs if it were python :)
<brainwash> yes, you can easily apply changes and debug it
<brainwash> and it's easy to read most of the time
<bluesabre> yup, its great for rapid app development
<bluesabre> and for prototyping too
<bluesabre> if I can't figure something out in C, I try it in python first
<bluesabre> neat
<bluesabre> https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/GameDevelopmentSeries/Setup
<brainwash> ^ ah dammit, another thing I have to learn/try
<brainwash> so much to learn :)
<Unit193> Though, it seems the interest for it died dow a lot.  Isn't the new, hip one Go?
<GridCube> but is not unity promoting vala?, i might not be up to date tho
<bluesabre> vala is the goto thing for Unity, Gnome, and elementary
<bluesabre> even some xfce projects use vala
<bluesabre> some = at least one
<Unit193> But upstream doesn't even like C++, right?
<bluesabre> yeah, C is where its at
<bluesabre> I don't like C++ anymore, I think the syntax is ugly
<bluesabre> but yeah, Go is exploding in popularity currently
<bluesabre> or thats how it seems from my G+
<bluesabre> I'm guessing the installer hasn't been fully translated yet...
<bluesabre> http://imagebin.org/297910
<bluesabre> I like the new slides
<GridCube> P: bluesabre why you installing in spanish?
<bluesabre> GridCube: I've got to test some things in something other than english
<bluesabre> spanish is my most fluent second
<GridCube> :D
<Unit193> Meaning you can read 3 words?
<bluesabre> at this point, more or less
<bluesabre> I took spanish courses for 7 years
<bluesabre> been out of school for 2 years
<starrats> I need some help please.
<bluesabre> its running away from me
<bluesabre> I've gotta run, but go ahead and ask your question starrats and somebody should be able to help
<brainwash> starrats: please ask your question then
<starrats> my pointer still occasionally sticks/frozen when i turn on 14.04 and I tried to do somehting about and I accidentally 'disabled the pointer and now i can't get on 14.04 at all, is there a way i can fix it or ?
<starrats> do I have to re-install the 
<starrats> the distro
<brainwash> re-installing would be the cleanest solution
<bluesabre> maybe the compositor?
<brainwash> the login greeter still works fine?
<starrats> okay, just stick the disk in the tray and makesure that it's the one being read at time of boot
<Unit193> Could remove the config from .config/, though don't think it'd fix the sticking.
<starrats> yes the login greeter, if you mean that thing that swirls on the 'xubuntu blue screen' yes it works
<Unit193> No, where you type your password to login.
<starrats> no that doesn't work
<starrats> I didn't make it work that way, no password to get on the desktop it just went there
<starrats> when i first loaded the disk, if i re-install I will be having a password to login
<starrats> right now I'm on VBox again
<starrats> I'm just going to re-install the 14.04 disc and start afresh
<Unit193> I'm going to shoot whoever came up with the submit bug links. >_<
<Unit193> Heeey, I typed the right UUID!  Can't confirm before submitting. :/
<brainwash> ali1234: still working on the thunar segfault?
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> i don't know what else to do unless you've got some clues
<brainwash> so a not needed/false unref is causing this?
<ali1234> there could be many caused
<ali1234> that's one of them
<ali1234> another is allocating with g_slice and freeing with g_free
<brainwash> the issue with the slice allocator has started with 13.10
<brainwash> and many apps are/were affected
<ali1234> yeah.... indicates it's probably in some library
<ali1234> what other apps?
<brainwash> the terminal (encoding menu)
<ali1234> we fixed that one though
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> I remember some evolution reports too
<ali1234> that's another thing that can cause it... misuse of linked lists
<ali1234> basically the slice allocator *replaces* malloc
<ali1234> which means all the things that normally would cause random segfaulting now cause a segfault inside of the slice allocator instead
<ali1234> that's a pretty wide class of bug
<brainwash> sadly
<brainwash> so we are only aware of this issue thanks to apport?
<ali1234> pretty much
<ali1234> errors.ubuntu.com
<brainwash> does thunar actually quits?
<brainwash> quit
<ali1234> i mean you'll always see this type of crash, but we wouldn't know how common it is really
<ali1234> lots of reports say it happens when you quit thunar
<brainwash> oh, so when things finalize
<ali1234> yes, quite likely
<brainwash> and memory gets cleaned up
<ali1234> so, double free(), wrong type of free()
<brainwash> mmh :/
<ali1234> the usual stuff
<ali1234> there are steps to debug it but i haven't been able to reproduce
<ali1234> you can turn off the slice allocator or put it into debug mode - that should catch any problems even if it doesn't actually crash
<brainwash> I'll try to reproduce, had a different thunar crash yesterday
<brainwash> so I got reminded of this issue
<brainwash> mousepad crashed too while reading a big file
<brainwash> and all the other reports on the Xfce bug tracker
<brainwash> there is so much to fix
<brainwash> but want to move forward and switch to gtk3 and wayland
<brainwash> we want
<ali1234> i don't have much interest in switching to wayland
<ali1234> not until there is a sensible abstraction layer for compositors
<ali1234> which is probably 2 or 3 years away from happening
<brainwash> so X not dead yet :)
<ali1234> not for a long long time
<ali1234> wayland doesn't form a replacement for it... at all. and neither does mir
<andrzejr_> ali1234, one problem with wayland/mir is that they do not want such abstraction layer
<ali1234> yes, i know. that's why it will take 2/3 years
<andrzejr_> (that's what X is)
<ali1234> yes, it is
<ali1234> and that's why they can't replace it
<andrzejr_> worse, it won't happen at all and we will have DE's and apps written for a specific compositor
<ali1234> that will just be like X was, pre-xdg
<ali1234> the best thing to do is just refuse to have anything to do with wayland until they create that abstraction layer
<ali1234> it doesn't have to be part of wayland
<ali1234> it just has to exist
<ali1234> and be supported by gnome and kde
<ali1234> then i'll consider using it
<andrzejr_> slow development and rigidness of X is blessing - otherwise you would see new incompatible ideas popping up everywhere
<Unit193> ochosi, Noskcaj: http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gmusicbrowser.html
<Noskcaj> yep
<Noskcaj> sync bug up, and alessio is making another upload soon
<a5m0> is there a user accessible way to modify the xubuntu installer's cryptsetup to use sha512 instead of sha1?
<Noskcaj> a5m0, probably?
<a5m0> tried grepping in my iso for cryptsetup but it only found the packages, guess the config is packed 
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-09
<Unit193> brainwash: I should presume you aren't there, with an idle time of 5h?
<bluesabre> alrighty, mugshot 0.2.2 is out, fixes some things I'm glad nobody had found before I did :)
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/mugshot/0.2/0.2.2
<starrats> good morning, my question is this,  I had to totally re-install 14.04, had some problems with dist-upgrade, sent a pastebin.ubuntu.com and also to the launchpad, did anyone see it?
<starrats> I think I took care of that problem but today as I was running the update/upgrade I got a not saying 1 package kept back and the package is this 'usb-modeswitch-data' what does this mean?
<starrats> note/not
<brainwash> starrats: it cannot be upgraded due to a dependency issue
<starrats> well I did the update/upgrade successfully and when I went to dist-upgrade it said there were no upgrades and it said 1 package kept back and that package was the 'usb-modeswitch-data'.  I did not get any other warning concerning any other errors.
<brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usb-modeswitch/+bug/1270499
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1270499 in usb-modeswitch (Ubuntu) "Install conflict with Trusty repos (with workaround)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<starrats> yesterday I did get a warning that popped up about xscreensaver and xlockmore but that didn't show up at all today and late last night I continued the dist-upgrade thru pasckage manager and all went quite well
<brainwash> we you asked to confirm the removal of xscreensaver?
<starrats> don't know if it was removed, the little window that popped up during dist-upgrade said something about a restart, I did and then I did the package manager dist-upgrade and there was a little note that 55 pkgs wer not going to be installed but this morning there wasn't any alert on top by the clock/date but the pointer did freeze on me again and I just a hard shutdown on the laptop and then tried again and the pointer was not 'fro
<starrats> zen', I need to know how to stop the 'frozen pointer' problem and freezes just as I want to put my password in.
<starrats> I did send my problems to pastebin.ubuntu.com last night about my problems that occurred after I re-installed 14.04
<starrats> it was a copy of the terminal output
<starrats> my question to someone here that can answer me is this.  Did you see my pastebin.ubuntu on my install problems, lines 17 and 18 are the same as today, using apt-get install -f ?
<bluesabre> starrats: link?
<bluesabre> catfish 1.0.2 released: https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/1.0/1.0.2
<brainwash> starrats: please file a launchpad report and attach your terminal output to the report
<starrats> brainwash:  I filed a launch report thru pastebin.ubuntu.com last night and it's still the same.  sorry for the late reply was downstairs making breakfast and helping my gf.
<brainwash> starrats: pastebin.ubuntu.com is just a pastebin service and not an actual bug report
<starrats> okay let me see if I can get it on launchpad
<starrats> on the launchpad.net, where do I paste my terminal output, I see nothing about reporting a bug, sorry
<brainwash> starrats: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
<brainwash> oh, the link for "Report a bug" in the top right corner seems to be broken
<brainwash> it redirects you to the wiki page
<brainwash> starrats: you can open a terminal window and run "ubuntu-bug <package>" instead
<brainwash> Unit193: anything you want to ask?
<Unit193> Wsa kind of wondering how long apport retracing took..
<brainwash> in general?
<brainwash> btw https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/4.11.1-2ubuntu1
<brainwash> "xubuntu seamless greeter to desktop transition" is now activated, hopefully we don't encounter any hardware/driver specific issues
<brainwash> works fine here, restricted and open source AMD driver
<ali1234> Unit193: there's a queue for that... can be fast or slow
<ali1234> you can run it locally in a chroot with just a couple commands
<Unit193> brainwash: Something is crappy here.
<Unit193> ali1234: Ah, well then. :/
<ali1234> http://www.piware.de/2011/08/apport-retrace-made-useful/
<ali1234> might be a little outdated
<brainwash> oh, worth a bookmark
<brainwash> ali1234: bug 1056978
<ubottu> bug 1056978 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Resizing windows by grabbing window borders is difficult" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056978
<brainwash> so it got solved in metacity
<brainwash> maybe the solution could be adopted
<ali1234> i tried to fix this
<ali1234> the frame drawing code is a huge mess in xfwm
<ali1234> and in the end, you can't make invisible windows in X that still receive input. it's just not possible.
<ali1234> i will look at how metacity did it
<ali1234> but i suspect it will be done in the compositor
<brainwash> but isn't xfwm4 a fork or whatever of metacity?
<ali1234> sort of
<ali1234> but it was a long time ago
<ali1234> they are very different now
<brainwash> ah, I see :/
<ali1234> if anyone else wants to have a shot at this i'll be happy to provide help/mentoring
<brainwash> you are one of the few people who are somewhat familiar with xfwm4 =S
<Noskcaj> xfwm4 is now updated for greeter-desktop transition
<ali1234> thanks
<ali1234> hopefully if it works fine in the release it can be turned on by default
<brainwash> Noskcaj: thanks :)
<Noskcaj> the uploader changed it from cflags to cppflags, is that a problem?
<ali1234> i dunno. if it works, it works
<ali1234> it definitely shouldn't affect anything else
<brainwash> Noskcaj: can you please mark bug 1258978 as wishlist?
<ubottu> bug 1258978 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "can't lock the screen from the logout dialog" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1258978
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-02
<dkessel> slickymaster: fyi, there are new validation errors in the Spanish translation: https://launchpad.net/~dkessel/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-docs-daily/+build/7023758/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-vivid-amd64.xubuntu-docs_15.04-201503010545~201503020117~ubuntu15.04.1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<elfy> pleia2: it's the same person 
<elfy> chances of something in #xubuntu topic re 4.12 are? low? high? slim? or even pointless? 
<ochosi> elfy: wow, we really need a fix for exo out :)
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1427144
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1427144 in exo (Ubuntu) "firefox open blank pages when called from exo-open" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> new bugs are reported every day it seems
 * bluesabre waits very patiently for the package to get released
<bluesabre> might as well start updating the ppa >.>
<ochosi> -release has been quiet all day
<ochosi> unfortunately
<ochosi> bluesabre: you mentioned you ported gtk_widget_reparent in some other apps already, got a pointer for me there?
<bluesabre> ochosi: one sec
<bluesabre> ochosi: parole/src/common/parole-common.c:38:parole_widget_reparent (GtkWidget *widget, GtkWidget *new_parent)
<ochosi> k thanks
<ochosi> maybe we should put that into libxfce4ui...
<bluesabre> probably a good idea
<bluesabre> libxfce4util got released
<bluesabre> trying to get everything else in now
<ochosi> nice!
<bluesabre> xfconf rebuild pushed, then libxfce4ui, then everything else
<flexiondotorg> Hi
<bluesabre> won't have time for all that this morning so.... (elfy: try to not update until this evening)
<flexiondotorg> We have a package conflict between xubuntu-default-settings and ubuntu-mate-default-settings.
<flexiondotorg> I'm prepairing a update to ubuntu-mate-default-settings now.
<flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mate-settings/+bug/1426862
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1426862 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "package xubuntu-default-settings (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/etc/skel/.config/Trolltech.conf', which is also in package ubuntu-mate-default-settings 0.4.2ubuntu1" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> yes, a file that is installed in /usr to set qt themees
<bluesabre> er, not /usr, but in /home
<bluesabre> not much we can do there, except either both not ship it, or make our packages Conflict with each other
<bluesabre> it might actually make sense, however, to make all the -default-settings packages conflict with each other
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, I've added a Conflict for now.
<flexiondotorg> Perhaps for 15.10 we can create a shared package?
<flexiondotorg> Our requirements are not so different.
<knome> shared what package?
<flexiondotorg> A shared package that put TrollTech.conf in /etc/skel/
<bluesabre> the only thing that differs for us should be the font
<bluesabre> font="Droid Sans,10,-1,5,50,0,0,0,0,0"
<knome> isn't that a bit overkill?
<knome> a package for a config file..
<bluesabre> I think the -default-settings packages should all conflict
<bluesabre> xubuntu-default-settings != mate-default-settings
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Yes, just the font. But shall we discuss this for 15.10 and just mutually conflict for now?
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> we'll do that
<flexiondotorg> Cool.
<knome> bluesabre, no, but what if one wants to use the mate and xfce desktops with ubuntu defaults?
<knome> bluesabre, that's the only reason why you'd not want them to conflict
<bluesabre> then install ubuntu-default-settings
<knome> bluesabre, i don't mean "ubuntu desktop defaults"
<knome> but ubuntu defaults
<bluesabre> then we should rename the packages if thats not their purpose
<knome> eg. what the defaults the ubuntu mate / xubuntu people built
<knome> bluesabre, you misunderstood me
<brainvvash> people won't be able to install xubuntu- and mate-desktop parallel, because the default settings packages conflict?
<knome> brainvvash, no, they will, but they can't install both settings packages
<knome> and due to that, they can't have BOTH the "full xubuntu experience"
<knome> and the "full ubuntu mate experience"
<knome> well, at least we consider the default settings an integral part of the xubuntu experience
<knome> bluesabre, ^ do you understand now?
<bluesabre> knome: if you install multiple desktop environments, the full xubuntu experience is usually broken
<bluesabre> I'm not sure what you're suggesting, might have to spell it out
<knome> bluesabre, well i'm suggesting that this conflict will exaggerate that breaking up
<bluesabre> knome: not much that can be done currently... if we want to have qt apps look normal and not have broken packages, that's the requirement (because of how and where qt stores its settings)
<knome> bluesabre, well i'm not saying we should drop the config either :P
<knome> conflicting is probably the sanest choice after all
<knome> but it's a bit meh itself as well
<ochosi> i'm actually with bluesabre on this one
<ochosi> creating a separate package seems overkill and as long as the various members of the ubuntu family use different defaults, that shared package would be very small
<knome> yep, that's not something i'd do
<bluesabre> since the archive is slow, I've gone ahead and started uploading things for 14.10 into https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xfce-4.12
<bluesabre> it should be fully updated after everything builds
<bluesabre> I'll finish up vivid tonight once xfconf lands
<bluesabre> bbl
<ochosi> nice, thanks bluesabre 
<elfy> ochosi: holy duplicates batman :p
<elfy> bluesabre: thanks 
<knome> namtab
<elfy> hi knome 
<knome> hello elfy
<ochosi> fun, someone wants a snapshot of "xubuntu14.10's source"
<ochosi> for some foss license checking
<ochosi> i don't suppose there's an easy way to get the complete source
<knome> no
<pleia2> elfy: I guess I was confused when you agreed with < pleia2> elfy: yeah, so our criteria for winner should be "top non-team tester who hasn't won yet?"
<pleia2> I don't think we're actually on the same page here :)
<knome> pleia2, definitely not, you're in the US, he's in the UK
<knome> :P
<knome> how could you be on "the 'same' page" 
<knome> bbabl
<elfy> pleia2: there would have been TWO winners
<elfy> there is ONE - who HAS won both :)
<pleia2> elfy: yeah, I'm still confused :)
<pleia2> my implication was that we take the next on the list
<elfy> I have no idea what you mean by that :D
<pleia2> so the list looks like
<pleia2> joe
<pleia2> sally
<pleia2> fred
<elfy> next time we look - even though this one might win, they'd not get stickers next one down will
<pleia2> joe already won last time, so sally gets it this time
<elfy> I really don't care anymore - I've lost the will to live
<pleia2> sorry :( I'm just trying to understand
<elfy> yea
<elfy> I know - not blaming you
<elfy> but all of us - we all knew this was going on 
 * genii makes more coffee and tries to understand what's going on
<elfy> for months and months and months
<pleia2> I can't change the past and I'm not perfect
<pleia2> I didn't fully think out how this would work, and I'm sorry
<elfy> pleia2: if I was blaming you - I'd be talking to you privately 
<elfy> I'm not - it's all of our fault :)
<pleia2> so can we figure this out without quitting?
<knome> :D
<elfy> not now we can't - I've just got in from work 
<elfy> abd dinner is at the door
<pleia2> sure, just let me know when you're available
<pleia2> knome: I have the address for our first winner :) so whenever you need me to print out things or whatever, lmk
 * pleia2 back2work
<slickymaster> yeah dkessel, I know. Thanks
<slickymaster> hadn't yet time to check what's going on 
<Unit193> xubuntu-default-settings has a stuck SRU for trusty?
<knome> when's the exo fix going to land to trusty/utopic?
<slickymaster> Unit193, the issue with es.po was with index.xml, wasn't it?
<Unit193> Validating es/index.xml ...
<Unit193> migrating-upgrading.xml:337: element xref: validity error : Element xref does not carry attribute linkend
<Unit193> migrating-upgrading.xml:337: element xref: validity error : No declaration for attribute linked of element xref
<Unit193> guide-keeping-safe.xml:297: element menuchoice: validity error : Element menuchoice content does not follow the DTD, expecting (shortcut? , (guibutton | guiicon | guilabel | guimenu | guimenuitem | guisubmenu | interface)+), got 
<Unit193> Document es/index.xml does not validate
<slickymaster> ok, thanks
<slickymaster> I'm downloading the all file to check it... once again :P
<knome> basically it always says index.xml doesn't validate
<knome> because the rest of the stuff is pulled in via it
<Unit193> knome: IMO it'd be great to have exo 0.10.3 pulled in rather than just a single fix.
<knome> maybe, but really, we need the FIX NOW
<knome> the newer exo can wait
<Unit193> https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce/2015-February/034200.html
<slickymaster> knome, Unit193, the issue with es.po is, and once again, extra spaces within the tags :P
<slickymaster> msgstr "Para ver fÃ¡cilmente el camino que tomÃ³ para llegar al directorio actual, puede cambiar las opciones de vista por defecto. En el menÃº Administrador de archivos, seleccione <menuchoice> <guimenuitem> Ver </ guimenuitem> <guimenuitem> Selector de ubicaciÃ³n </ guimenuitem> <guimenuitem> Estilo de barra de ruta </ guimenuitem> </ menuchoice>. Ahora usted puede hacer clic en cualquier icono de la barra de ruta para cambiar a
<slickymaster> this idiom is starting to drive me insane
<knome> slickymaster, you should really contact the people working on the translation
<knome> i'm pretty sure it's the same people that keep producing the invalid markup
<Unit193> Paco
<slickymaster> the translator itself is new to me, at least his LP username
<knome> Unit193, i was thinking that
<slickymaster> yeah Unit193, that's the main culprit
<slickymaster> he's the reviewer :P
<slickymaster> which means he doesn't review %&#"!
<knome> who's the admins for the spanish ubuntu translators team?
<slickymaster> no idea
<slickymaster> I could check it out
<slickymaster> but not today, too damn tired and angry
<slickymaster> well, at least it's just one occurence... today :P
<knome> :)
<slickymaster> knome, just uploaded es.po, it's sitting in https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/vivid/+imports
<slickymaster> care to validate it, please?
<knome> done
<slickymaster> danka
<Unit193> knome: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/exo/+bug/1425972
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1425972 in exo (Ubuntu) "Firefox no longer supports -remote parameter" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Unit193> Or, if Xfce has a MRE I can just do that.
<knome> there is one more bug, unless elfy removed that
<elfy> pleia2: about for a while
<elfy> knome: not done any dupes since a while back
<knome> elfy, mhm
<knome> Unit193, so i know about the release, and i know it's fixed upstream, and i know the solution (i even posted a few days ago to one of the bugs), i'm just saying i want the fix landed.
<pleia2> elfy: I think I'm just confused because you keep saying things that make me think we mean the same thing, but then I don't understand why we have one person getting stickers for 2 testing segments
<elfy> because the dailies are seperate from all the milestones
<elfy> there'll be a new set for March and April
<elfy> and however many milestones there are between now and release
<pleia2> I see, so we're tracking winners for dailies separate from milestones?
<elfy> yea
<pleia2> ok, that's where I didn't understand
<elfy> ok :)
<pleia2> but for the next round, if the same guy wins everything again, we pick the next one down, yeah?
<elfy> if we'd started this at the beginning we'd have 6 dailies and x milestones
<elfy> pleia2: no reason why not to look at it once we've done so for sure :)
<pleia2> k
<elfy> maybe next time add milestones into whatever month
<elfy> so we'd just have 6 
<knome> otoh, milestones being a different competition might get people to test them
<knome> because you will need less tests to win that than for a month
<elfy> yea 
<pleia2> and since we'd either need to fold certificates or pay much more in shipping for big envelope, I'm just going to write a little thank you note with the stickers and they can request a certificate to print themselves if they want
<pleia2> I only have a black and white printer, and it's not like they're going to hang it on their wall anyway :P
<elfy> :)
<elfy> should request funds from the fund for a book for the cycle winner now 
<elfy> so knome it's 19:
<knome> yes
<elfy> 35 now :)
<pleia2> good idea
<knome> :D
<elfy> pleia2: I would, but I've just done it for me 
<elfy> should get a nexus 7 in the post tomorrow 
<Unit193> andrzejr: I presume you didn't see my comment about xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin and -lm?
<andrzejr> Unit193, nope. Sorry I was very busy last couple of weeks. What about "-lm"?
<Noskcaj> After 6 months of waiting for a responce, i have failed MOTU again
<Unit193> andrzejr: Sure, sure.  Noticed when trying it out, -lm (math lib, for panel-plugin/pulseaudio-button.c) doesn't get added when using --as-needed.  Is it missing from the configure.ac/in script or Makefile somewhere perhaps?
<andrzejr> yes, it is not there. How to reproduce the issue?
<elfy> Noskcaj: :(
<elfy> I assume they said why 
<Noskcaj> I don't follow up on uploads enough (which is not an issue i beleive i have had for months)
<Noskcaj> And that includes my xubuntu packageset application, where i don't think i've had a bad upload
<Unit193> andrzejr: Just export LDFLAGS='-Wl,--as-needed -Wl,-z,defs' before you build.
<andrzejr> compilation passes just fine.
<andrzejr> I have a fix but I don't know how to test it
<Unit193> /home/unit193/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin-0.1.0/panel-plugin/pulseaudio-button.c:338: undefined reference to `lround'
<Unit193> /home/unit193/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin-0.1.0/panel-plugin/pulseaudio-button.c:340: undefined reference to `lround'
<andrzejr> can you check the fix if I push it to git?
<Unit193> Of course.
<Unit193> (I'm compiling from the release, but can change that.)
<Unit193> Or, just pass me a patch.  Either way works.
<andrzejr> pushed
<Unit193> plugin/pulseaudio-dialog_ui.h seemed to be missing, but yep that commit fixed it, thanks, andrzejr.
<andrzejr> the version from git needs --enable-maintainer-mode to generate some files
<knome> elfy, slickymaster: i'll be here in 5-10 mins after i've booted my desktop and prepared a bit
<elfy> ok 
<slickymaster>  ok
<knome> here i am
<knome> slickymaster, take the lead
<elfy> knome: is it bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu ?
<knome> elfy, if you want to look what we currently have (in 14.10)
<knome> elfy, then yes
<knome> elfy, if you want to see the PoC stuff, it's in lp:~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/1504-changes
<elfy> that's be more sensible :p
<slickymaster> just a second guys
<knome> elfy, that's also where i'll be doing changes today if i need to work on issues not related to content
<knome> slickymaster, 1 second gone
<slickymaster> had to reboot
<slickymaster> another one then
<knome> slickymaster, 2 seconds gone
<elfy> knome: also - draft - incoming stupid link
<elfy> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1LCjpeRCAmy0sZVpXCpNurRBSGj8s08ENgF1Dokz080M/viewform
<slickymaster> elfy, also http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1504-slideshow
<knome> elfy, i'd probably make it column based
<knome> elfy, but let's get back to that a tad later
<elfy> knome: yea looked at that ... 
<slickymaster> let's start by the begining
<slickymaster> do we agree on the new propsed slide order?
<slickymaster> * proposed
<knome> i'm good with it
<slickymaster> elfy?
<elfy> so am I
<knome> he's the one who proposed it :P
<slickymaster> ok, that's it then
<elfy> :)
<knome> until he has mental issues, i'd guess he'd agree with it
 * slickymaster had to ask anyway
<elfy> :)
<slickymaster> so, welcome slide
<slickymaster> knome, artwork wise, any changes planned to land?
<knome> well you said you're fine with the artwork we have now, so no
<elfy> knome: so your's currently is empty(ish)
<slickymaster> ok, but the pink will be dropped, right?
<knome> elfy, yeah
<knome> slickymaster, yes, i'll redo the overall looks
<knome> slickymaster, but i was referring to the welcome slide artwork since i thought you were asking about that
<elfy> I did try and persuade ochosi and knome that cyan would be the choice for Vervet 
<knome> elfy, who knows if i have a cyanish wallpaper in progress!
<slickymaster> IMO, I don't see yeah, that was just a small detour
<slickymaster> without the IMO
<slickymaster> IMO, I don't see much options to chnage the text of the slide
<slickymaster> it's a good welcoming and rephrasing it just for the sake of it doesn't make much sense
<elfy> which slide?
<slickymaster> the welcome 
<slickymaster> first one
<elfy> k - yep - agree
<slickymaster> knome, yes/no/maybe?
<knome> i'm agreeing to everything unless i explicitly state i am disagreeing
<slickymaster> oki doke
<slickymaster> moving on then
<elfy> slickymaster: I'll do the same as knome 
<slickymaster> ok, Ready to go
<knome> so what's the purpose of this slide
<knome> the current slide has the app list
<slickymaster> this one will have the preinstalled apps
<knome> but in the new proposed slideshow we have a slide for whisker
<elfy> you are going to have to explicitly state which slide you're talking about 
<slickymaster> but none to actually mentioned the preinstalled apps
<knome> 23:27  slickymaster: ok, Ready to go
<knome> elfy, so a slide with that name currently has the list of preinstalled apps
<slickymaster> the second on the 'new order'
<knome> elfy, but the new proposed one has that slideshow and a "whisker menu" slideshow listed
<elfy> right - just needed to know which order we're looking at them in :)
<knome> do they serve the same purpose
<slickymaster> yeah, until now we had the xubuntu desktop covering this
<knome> fwiw, i reordered the things under "New slideshow draft" to the new order
<slickymaster> '1
<knome> so you can fill in content you think the slides need there
<slickymaster> ?!
<elfy> knome: I don't think they do serve the same purpose
<knome> i was just asking :)
<knome> because i'm not sure what the whisker menu slide is doing
<knome> do we still want to keep on highlighting it?
<knome> i vaguely remember slickymaster saying we could drop that slide
<slickymaster> the whisker was first born because of the seachable feature
<elfy> well - it's not new 
<knome> slickymaster, no, there's a slide about whisker now
<slickymaster> I mean the new one
<knome> slickymaster, the search thing was about revamping that slide
<slickymaster> yes knome ^^
<knome> but if we don't do the search, do we need the whisker slide?
<slickymaster> in that case no
<slickymaster> besides whisker is devil
<slickymaster> ;)
<knome> and i'm sorry that i bring this up now, but i think it's good to know if we have that slide in order to know what we want on this other app slide
<knome> so,
<knome> the ready to go slide
<knome> how do we want to list the apps there?
<slickymaster> are we dropping the hoovering through the apps interaction?
<slickymaster> knome that was one of the possibilities we discussed
<knome> i am thinking "probably"
<knome> if we think the slide is too cluttered
<knome> we can show it in two parts
<knome> so it is almost like two slides
<knome> but which progress at double speed
<slickymaster> not seeing it 
<knome> though i'm not specifically excited about that either
<slickymaster> that was ending up to be the only interaction the slideshow would had
 * knome shrugs
<slickymaster> which means that we'll continue with a static installer
<knome> maybe i changed my mind about fussing too much with the slideshow
<knome> well, not necessarily
<elfy> why a need for interaction ? 
<knome> we can add dynamic things into it
<knome> without the user having to interact with it
<knome> elfy, to make it a bit exciting so users would actually follow/read it
<slickymaster> knome, like ...?
<knome> slickymaster, well, i don't know
<slickymaster> yeah, the all idea was to make it catchier
<knome> slickymaster, like the app paths on hover
<elfy> knome: ok - but if we're going to add a slide pointing people at a poll - don't we want some time spent there? 
<knome> slickymaster, small things like that which improve the slideshow, but do not take anything away from it if the user doesn't feel like playing with it
<elfy> that's if we do ofc
 * slickymaster agrees
<knome> elfy, yes, and that's a good question
<knome> elfy, sounds to me like the poll should be at the last slide if possible
<elfy> yes 
<slickymaster> thing is elfy, if we place the pool too soon, users will stop paying attention to the installer itself
<elfy> slickymaster: yes I agree - that's not why I bring it up :)
<slickymaster> ok, so returning to the Ready to go slide
<slickymaster> we could use this one to display the preinstalled applications, and if possible use the app paths on hover
<slickymaster> idea
<slickymaster> opinions?
<elfy> from my pov the likelihood of me ever hovering over anything like that would be slim tbh
<knome> fwiw, i'd do the app paths on all slides hover :)
<knome> elfy, i'll make sure the style is visually encouraging you to do that
<knome> but as i said... it shouldn't be something that makes the slideshow lesser even if you don't hover
<slickymaster> so knome, basically we only have to had code to the previous Ready to go slide
<slickymaster> had some
<elfy> question 
<slickymaster> shoot
<elfy> is it possible to have slide view time different for specific slides?
<slickymaster> I think so
<slickymaster> I mean, it's set by a timer I think
<knome> not with the slideshow as it is now, but i can probably look at that
<knome> slickymaster, which is configurable per-slideshow, not per-slide
<slickymaster> ah, ok
<knome> but we can probably bump that slider to a bigger value at the beginning of a certain slide
<slickymaster> will you check that out knome?
<elfy> ok - just wondering - maybe if we do more with this one - have it visible for a bit longer
<elfy> anyway - move along :)
<knome> slickymaster, if it's needed, i will
<slickymaster> right
<knome> at some point
<knome> not right now
<slickymaster> third slide -> Personalize (login)
<slickymaster> this include setting up user information and additional accounts
<elfy> why is menu editing on that slide?
<slickymaster> I see a problem from the start with this one
<slickymaster> which is that bug mugshot is having
<knome> the new draft doesn't talk about menus or mugshot
<knome> the menulibre stuff would be on the next slide, mugshot removed
<knome> mugshot isn't new either any more
<slickymaster> but it's what's used by default to set up user info
<slickymaster> that's its main job
<knome> oh that's right
 * knome isn't thinking straight, some headache here
<knome> but eh
<knome> don't know, wasn't bluesabre looking at that bug
<elfy> slickymaster: surely when working the slides out - it shouldn't depend on a bug? 
<slickymaster> other then the data a user provide during the installation, what are one supposed to use to add that info to the system
<elfy> I think that slide needs to be there 
<slickymaster> no elfy, my point is: we're talking about setting up personnal info, but what do we provide users to that end?
<slickymaster> I think the same also
<knome> maybe we should try to go over what is needed faster
<knome> then focus on what the exact content should be
<slickymaster> in that context knome, that slide is already defined in our draft, and I do agree with what's theer
<slickymaster> * there
<slickymaster> so, can we move forward?
<knome> yes
<slickymaster> Customization options
<knome> i think the laid out outline is good; cover wallpapers, gtk theme config and menulibre
<slickymaster> I would hate to loose the changing wallpapers idea on this one
<knome> that's more likely something for 16.04
<slickymaster> 7o|
<knome> hah
<knome> well it doesn't make too much sense to show wallpapers from a contest one year ago...
<elfy> menulibre moving to this one? 
<knome> i would say so
<elfy> bit busy? 
<elfy> or just gtk theme and menulibre ?
<knome> can't say before the content is laid out
<elfy> ok
<slickymaster> we already made the gtk theme slide
<knome> where? what?
<slickymaster> 14.04 and 14.10
<knome> but then we also mentioned menulibre too...
<slickymaster> nevermind that 
<knome> :P
<knome> silly david
<slickymaster> bad day David
<knome> besides, menulibre is already mentioned on the list you wrote it
<slickymaster> yes, I did it
<slickymaster> twice :P
<knome> hah
<slickymaster> I would prefer if we just address one of them
<knome> so at this point i'd like to propose to switch the places of 5/6
<slickymaster> fine, and logical, by me
<knome> because it's a bit weird that we are talking about menulibre and/or gtk theme config before the desktop and panel
<slickymaster> before that knome, let's just agree on GTK and menu libre or just one of them, and being the later, which one
<knome> i vote for both
<slickymaster> for the Customization options slide
<slickymaster> elfy ?
<knome> or if you want only one, then menulibre
<slickymaster> it's not a matter of wanting, per si, knome 
<knome> we have the panel layout switcher app landing potentially for 15.10 to
<elfy> I'd need to see it with 2 
<slickymaster> I'm afraid it will end up to cluttered
<knome> we can add them both but not a screenshot of both, but that's ok
<elfy> concerned that they're not particularly simple to look at 
<slickymaster> ^^^
<elfy> knome: aah right - that makes a difference :)
<knome> that was what i was thinking all the way...
<elfy> if that's the case I'd be happy with both
<knome> because nobody is forcing us to show a screenshot of everything we mention :P
<elfy> or if the switcher app lands - screenshot that - that being the new boy on the blovk
<knome> not for 15.04 :)
<knome> but for 15.10 slideshow considerations
<slickymaster> yeah, we could go with an image of menu libre and a text mention of GTK
<elfy> well - bank that for 15.10 :p
<slickymaster> for 15.04 what I said
<knome> slickymaster, yes
<elfy> if we do an image of menulibre - maybe an image of changing/adding something 
<knome> elfy, wfm
<slickymaster> and a cursing user behind the keyboard
<elfy> I'll do it then - always worked for me :p
<slickymaster> ok, getting back to slide 4
<slickymaster> The Xubuntu desktop
<knome> i'm pretty good with what we have now
<knome> just get a new screenshot and we're good to go
<slickymaster> same here
<slickymaster> elfy?
<elfy> I'm completely confused as to which list your using - the names of which slide your talking about 
<knome> 4/ The Xubuntu desktop
<knome> basically the one that shows the panel
<slickymaster> lol knome, changed the order
<elfy> when we change this stuff - can we make the file name in the branch equal what the slide actually is 
<knome> elfy, yes, i'll do that :P
<slickymaster> haha
<elfy> ok - happy with the slide as it is - but how about 2 panels on there
<elfy> we say you can customise - why not show a customised one 
<slickymaster> a bottom one elfy? 
<slickymaster> assuming the one he have is a default top panel
<elfy> or a side one, or a deskbar
<knome> elfy, in that case i would consider the current hover effect to be confusing
<elfy> if we did - possibly best to use one of those - not looking like the *old* layout
<elfy> knome: mmm
<slickymaster> well, the old layout, is the default shipped layout elfy 
<elfy> knome: then I'd nix that - I think the hover effect on that slide useful
<knome> :)
<elfy> slickymaster: by old I mean top and bottom default
<slickymaster> I'm neutral on that, tbh
<elfy> or 
<slickymaster> either way wfm, but I agree with elfy, the hover effect would be usefull on this slide
<knome> so let's keep it
<elfy> Word the slide differently
<knome> that works for me, but i'll leave the words for you
<knome> ^ see what i did there?
<slickymaster> one single panel? one top one bottom?
<knome> slickymaster, use the panel setup on vivid.
<elfy> "the default panel is at the top, but you can customise it" and just show a customised one - if we can still have the effect
<knome> right
<elfy> why show in a slide what someone can look at the desktop and see for themselves? 
<slickymaster> but that's only text elfy, not actually having an extra panel on the slide, right?
<elfy> oh look - if I look above the slide I can see this 
<knome> elfy, because the point is to introduce the different portions of the panel
<elfy> slickymaster: not just text - have a customised one 
<knome> elfy, unless you are installing directly from ubiquity
<elfy> knome: yes - the portions of the panel would still be the same wouldn't they
<elfy> knome: mmm - so they'd see it when they logged in :)
<elfy> anyway - not too bothered
<knome> elfy, yeah, but then that hover-thing isn't nearly as useful
<elfy> yep
<elfy> move along then :)
<slickymaster> Help & Support
<knome> i'd say leave that for me for now
<slickymaster> initaly we thought of splitting this one
<knome> i'll see if i want to do it on one or two slides
<elfy> only thing I'd say is -offtopic on there 
<slickymaster> ?!
<knome> :D
<slickymaster> what changed your mind?
<knome> my?
<knome> well,
<knome> i was originally thinking of splitting it to two parts
<knome> eg. left/right on one slide
<knome> that's still preferred...
<knome> ...if it fits
<knome> if it looks stuffed, then two slides
<elfy> ochosi: flashy cloak :)
<elfy> sidi just showing off ... :p
<slickymaster> lol
<sidi> meh :p
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> oh heh, hadn't noticed :)
<elfy> sidi: cos I bully you apparently :D
<slickymaster> ok that just leave us the Thank you slide
<slickymaster> whcih will have the poll link
<elfy> right 
<slickymaster> want ot take that action elfy?
<elfy> I guess
<slickymaster> and you guess correctly
<slickymaster> :P
<sidi> i'll pick xfce/under-bodyguard-protection/poor-sidi next time
<elfy> and when does this need to be done? 
<elfy> sidi: :)
<elfy> slickymaster: ^^
<slickymaster> asap
<slickymaster> knome ^~
<knome> wut :P
<elfy> how droll ... 
<slickymaster> I was planning on makinf the third and last translations call by the end of the week
<knome> aha..
<slickymaster> and it would be great if the installer could be already includede
<slickymaster> - e
<knome> well UIF is march 12, so has to be ready until then
<slickymaster> exactly
<knome> and uploaded too
<ochosi> btw, since so many of you are here now, what about having the next meeting a few days before UIF?
<knome> yes please
<knome> monday/tuesday wouuld be nice
 * slickymaster will be running Lubuntu by then
<ochosi> why's that?
<slickymaster> it's whisker free
<elfy> he can't work whiskermenu :p
<ochosi> :)
 * slickymaster is a potential Xubuntu desertor 
<elfy> ok - so we done with the slideshow for now? 
<slickymaster> I think so
<knome> yes
<elfy> knome: I'll look at columns for poll later - not convinced though
<slickymaster> can we check next friday how we are?
<knome> elfy, i could create another poll for a PoC
<knome> slickymaster, we can always check...
<knome> :P
<slickymaster> bah 
<elfy> knome: if you've time, if not I'll look tomorrow
<knome> let's see :)
<elfy> knome: just looking quickly I can't see a way to add a box someone could type in using Grid rows and columns
<flexiondotorg> Evening.
<flexiondotorg> I've just been discussing this with ali1234 in #ubuntu-mate
<elfy> your slideshow? 
<flexiondotorg> You know the panel crashes we've both been seeing in Ubuntu MATE and Xubuntu?
<slickymaster> lol elfy 
<slickymaster> you'll dream with it tonight
<flexiondotorg> I have it isolated to the new version of GTK2.
<flexiondotorg> 15.04 on i386 will crash the notification try applet, everytime you log in.
<flexiondotorg> 14.04 on i386 work fine. Until I install the new GTK2 release that I have built in a PPA.
<flexiondotorg> Then I see the exact same crashes in 14.04 i386 that I see on 15.04 i386.
<flexiondotorg> So, we have a regression in GTK2.
<knome> elfy, you're probablyt right
<knome> -t
<ochosi> flexiondotorg: meh, that sucks a bit
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, My PPA is here - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/+archive/ubuntu/crazy-mate
<flexiondotorg> Fancy test Xubuntu 14.04 with GTK2 installed from that PPA to see if you get that same crashes you've seen in 15.04?
<ochosi> i haven't seen those in 15.04 cause i only have 64bit
<ochosi> sry, atm i'm still quite busy with post-xfce4.12 cleanup
<elfy> knome: mmm I see a lot of "why you not have this option google?" threads ... 
<knome> heh :)
<ali1234> !info libgtk+2.0 utopic
<ubottu> libgtk2.0-bin (source: gtk+2.0): programs for the GTK+ graphical user interface library. In component main, is optional. Version 2.24.25-0ubuntu1 (utopic), package size 9 kB, installed size 578 kB
<elfy> well - good night peeps
<ali1234> !info libgtk+2.0 vivid
<brainvvash> shouldn't it be easy to debug this? gtk2 is dead, so not much changes code-wise, right?
<ubottu> libgtk2.0-bin (source: gtk+2.0): programs for the GTK+ graphical user interface library. In component main, is optional. Version 2.24.26-0ubuntu1 (vivid), package size 9 kB, installed size 580 kB
<ali1234> brainvvash: literally like 20 commits upstream
<ali1234> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/log/?h=gtk-2-24
<ali1234> 12 actually
<ali1234> stuff might have changed in debian/ubuntu though
<brainvvash> possible
<ali1234> flexiondotorg: can you build/test 2.24.26 from upstream without ubuntu patches?
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, Possibly.
<flexiondotorg> I hate to say it. But I fancy this commit.
<flexiondotorg> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-2-24&id=ee95f3d7259c0859ce41189b781b4339b4cd64aa
<ali1234> there's only about 6 upstream patches that could cause this
<flexiondotorg> Which we initiated.
<ali1234> hmm... my money is on the cairo one
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, Yeah, that is 2nd favourite.
<flexiondotorg> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-2-24&id=ad6271eca90e6139acd624209e10931d0dffbd73
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, Can you test my GTK2 on Xubuntu 14.04?
<ali1234> i run 64 bit
<ali1234> i could test it in a vm i suppose
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, I can reproduce on 32bit VBox guest on 64bit host.
<dkessel> hey guys. reading up on your work today, i got an idea for an application. looking forward to what you think - i am going to bed now :)
<dkessel> ^ here's the link: http://pad.ubuntu.com/LYkLjqzWw8 - knome ochosi elfy pleia2 slickymaster etc.
<dkessel> good night
<slickymaster> dkessel, I'll take a look at it tomorrow
<slickymaster> I'm battling whisker for now
<slickymaster> btw dkessel, I've already fixed es.po
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-03
<bluesabre> ugh
<bluesabre> libxfce4util is chilling in proposed and things are still building against whats in release
<Unit193> Really?  That's odd.  Did it all build?
<bluesabre> just noticed that desktop cleared really quick
<bluesabre> http://packages.ubuntu.com/vivid/xfdesktop4
<bluesabre> depends on libxfce4util6
<bluesabre> not 7
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxfce4util
 * bluesabre doesn't want to upload everything twice
 * bluesabre guesses its locked in proposed since its not pre-acked https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+bug/1424887
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1424887 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Xfce 4.12 for Vivid" [Undecided,Triaged]
 * bluesabre wonders how many xfce-4.12 packages will work in precise
 * Unit193 isn't about to find out, and will be pointing to bluesabre when things break. :P
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Precise is pretty dated, I don't touch that anymore if I can at all help it.  I'd not really recommend trying to do it either, but meh.
<bluesabre> it turned out that precise was pretty handy for distcheck without deprecations over the weekend :)
<Unit193> Hah. :P
<Noskcaj-school> I don't have time to properly report the bug today, but in mousepad, opening multiple files at once will make blank grey boxes appear at the top and bottom of the window. I have the bottom statusbar on
<Unit193> So, they all have a super outdated config.{guess|sub} ? :P
<Noskcaj-school> mousepad 0.4.0
<bluesabre> Noskcaj-school: good to know
<bluesabre> Unit193: probably x.x
<Noskcaj-school> bluesabre: Might be just gtk3. I'll hopefully have time to properly look into it tomorrow afternoon
<Unit193> Yep, nevermind.  Leaving the autoreconf stuff in.
<bluesabre> Noskcaj-school: cool, let me know
<bluesabre> Unit193: :D
<Noskcaj-school> Why do we want 4.12 on precise? shouldn't we be trying to point people to trusty for that?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj-school: it'd only be for my benefit
<Noskcaj-school> ok
<Noskcaj-school> bluesabre: Did you have any issues with my 4.12 packages? How many still need uploading?
<Unit193> Ahh, thought you might have been talking about the xfce-4.12 ppa. :P
<Noskcaj-school> I didn't touch gtk2-engines-xfce since i don
<Noskcaj-school> 't remember the responce for if we want gtk3
<bluesabre> Noskcaj-school: your packages are fine, been uploading mostly to the xfce-4.12 ppa
<bluesabre> trying to upload to the archive, but libxfce4util is stuck in proposed and things are just building with the older one
<bluesabre> so putting that on hold momentarily
<bluesabre> Unit193: I may upload for precise to that ppa as well, but I'll do testing in advance on a vm before going through with that
<bluesabre> we should either update the packages for precise and drop the ones for precise we have in the ppa
<bluesabre> second and should be or
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> "update them and remove them!"
<Unit193> Precise is nearly gone for Xubuntu, soo.
<bluesabre> guess that was the first and after all
<bluesabre> yeah
<Unit193> I've been ignoring all but trusty in that one, and in others have been going either trusty/utopic/vivid, or utopic/vivid.
 * bluesabre dumps 4.12 into trusty-4.12
<bluesabre> still need to package exo 0.10.3 tonight/tomorrow
<bluesabre> and package the engines for just the ppa (trusty/utopic/vivid)
<Unit193> I did a slight update at some point.
<bluesabre> yeah, saw your git patch
<bluesabre> might just push that for now until I get around to it
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xfce-4.12/+builds?build_state=building :)
<bluesabre> xfpm always wants to complicate things and fail on the first try :p
<Unit193> Hah, well I meant the engines, but that works too. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: if you have them, upload them :)
<Unit193> gtk2-engines-xfce_3.1.0-0ubuntu1.dsc outdated slightly, isn't it?
<bluesabre> seems so
<bluesabre> 08:21:19   SwissBot | ::xfce-announce:: ANNOUNCE: gtk-xfce-engine 2.10.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-gtk-xfce-engine-2-10-0-released-tp45527.html (by Peter de Ridder)               â         
<bluesabre>                       â08:21:19   SwissBot | ::xfce-announce:: ANNOUNCE: gtk-xfce-engine 3.2.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-gtk-xfce-engine-3-2-0-released-tp45529.html (by Peter de Ridder)
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, ali1234 bluesabre elfy I've moved my GTK2 build here - https://launchpad.net/~flexiondotorg/+archive/ubuntu/broken-software
<ali1234> flexiondotorg: just installing it in a vm, i had to download i386
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, ack
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre bug 1427654 fyi
<ubottu> bug 1427654 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Vivid) "FFE: switch system init to systemd [not touch] in 15.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1427654
<ochosi> oha, so finally â and naturally after FF â we switch to a new init system :]
<elfy> ;)
<ochosi> ali1234: btw, did you get to any conclusion regarding the ubiquity panel in the end? i got really distracted/busy with the 4.12 release so i didn't follow that anymore and am not sure about the status quo
<elfy> still no movement from -releaseI guess
<ali1234> ochosi: nothing changed on my end
<ochosi> hm, so what was that again then? drop the panel? or make it set different struts?
<ali1234> fix the panel
<ochosi> that should be fairly uninvasive, no?
<ochosi> i mean it's only a change in the struts, that's all
<ochosi> (given that the panel always sits at the exact same position in the exact same height)
<ochosi> lunchtime, bbiab
<ali1234> flexiondotorg: yeah the panel crashed on login
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, So we are agreed then? New GTK2 is busted.
<ali1234> yeah but i already thought that
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, Yeah. I thought it to.
<ali1234> it's crashing in the wrapper
<ali1234> which is bad because i have no idea how that stuff works
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, But we need to prove it. Now we both can.
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, So I am not sure if I should try removing "suspect" upstream GTK2 commits first or start removing ubuntu patches.
<ali1234> remove ubuntu patches first
<ali1234> that's probably going to be easier
<flexiondotorg> Sadly, I don't have a whole heap of time to dig into the GTK2 issue today.
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, All of them or just some?
<ali1234> all of them
<flexiondotorg> OK.
 * flexiondotorg goes to see if that is a quick job.
<brainvvash> the report should be assigned to gtk then too
<ali1234> the crasher is the notification area
<ali1234> brainvvash: sounds like your bug
<ali1234> hmm
<brainvvash> toggling the compositor several times crashed hexchat
<brainvvash> which has a tray icon
<ali1234> restarting the panel jusrt crashed pidgin for me, after enabling the systray icon
<ali1234> it's 100% reproducable
<drc> Interesting, "About XFCE" says 4.10 while inixi -F says 4.12.
<elfy> not here :)
<drc> let me look again
<elfy> I'm using vivid AND the staging PPA
<drc> no ppa
<elfy> that'll be why 
<elfy> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging?field.series_filter=vivid
<drc> I was going to ask how stable it was...but hey, this is B1 anyway :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I've had one hiccup - but pretty sure that was to do with ANOTHER ppa :p
 * drc holds breath and ....
<drc> logout needed?
<drc> going to anyway :)
<drc> OK, OCD is satisfied, both say 4.12.
<Unit193> ochosi: Yeah got pinged in -devel about systemd.
<Unit193> drc: libxfce4util is stuck in proposed, else it'd be good there.
<drc> when it comes unstuck, it comes unstuck...I'm assuming it'll flow down the pipe as usual?
<Unit193> Should.
<elfy> knome: did you get a chance to look at that poll? 
<elfy> mmm - picked an odd bug in Thunar
<elfy> can someone see if they get warnings when restoring something from trash please :)
<Noskcaj> Is anyone here running mousepad 0.4?
<elfy> yup
<Unit193> Well, I didn't get it, but that's no surprise maybe since I haven't rebooted.
<elfy> which ... 
<elfy> Noskcaj: multiple files opened looks good here if that's what you're after http://i.imgur.com/LsOxTND.png
<Noskcaj> http://i.imgur.com/IOporcN.png
<Noskcaj> Are you on the gtk3?
<drc> elfy: nope, restore works fine for me.
<elfy> drc: and thunar version 1.6.6 ?
<drc> yup
<brainvvash_> restore works fine here too
<elfy> Noskcaj: no idea - I'm on whatever I'd get from xubuntu + staging
<Noskcaj> that should be gtk3
<elfy> drc: never mind then and thanks brainvvash_ 
<elfy> NOT reinstalling ... 
<elfy> Noskcaj: then yes :)
<Unit193> Checking the deps would confirm of course. :P
<elfy> actually looking further it only appears to be things I've grabbed with bzr 
<elfy> Unit193: yea it do that 
<Unit193> elfy: What's your opinion about the new xfwm's feature with highlighting the windows in alt+tab?
<elfy> I thought that was new ... 
<elfy> couldn't be sure with this head of mine though :p
<elfy> given the way I've got focus set up currently - it works for me 
<elfy> but it could seem a bit full-on I suppose
<Unit193> Mmm.  Alright, just as long as it's only me.  It's annoyed me enough for me to turn it off directly after upgrade, not mearly sit annoyed at it for weeks.
<elfy> I'm only not annoyed as it's less annoying than losing focus as soon as I've alt+tabbed something 
<knome> elfy, as we discussed yesterday, i'm pretty sure we can't get it to work as i'd want..
<elfy> ok - I guessed so, fiddled a bit more with the existing one this evening
<elfy> and drafted Thanks slide - https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/thanks
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> awesome 
<knome> elfy, talking to yourself?
<elfy> arranged icons on desktop ... 
<elfy> bunch flew off to the left somewhere just beyond the edge
<knome> :P
<elfy> maybe I will be reinstalling again soon ... 
<knome> have fun :P
<knome> btw, i tried kvm inspired by you :D
<elfy> :)
<elfy> not as user friendly imo
<elfy> took me 10 minutes to sort out where to attach an image ... 
<knome> haha
<knome> yeah...
<elfy> knome: basically I did it so that if *we* get issues showing up in vbox I can confirm or deny in kvm - so if I'm in -release I've not just got vbox :D
<knome> yep
<knome> i was installing windows inside the kvm container though :D
<elfy> heh
<elfy> was it fun?
<knome> quite a bit like installing to a hard drive from a dics
<knome> though i installed it to a virtual environment from an ISO
<elfy> ohhh
<elfy> so this is weirder 
<knome> what is? :)
<elfy> changed the panel hide option
<elfy> then desktop icon moved
<knome> hmm
<elfy> so I tried arranging them again
<elfy> now they have ALL wandered off into the ether
<elfy> and I can't get them back this time :p
<knome> :P
<elfy> mmmm
<elfy> only have a few things on desktop - but I use them frequently
<elfy> knome: so I can replicate the weirdness in an updated vm ... http://i.imgur.com/aJk4QUO.png
<knome> hmm
<knome> funny
<elfy> that's with the staging ppa added 
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre weirdness after arranging desktop icons ^^
<slickymaster> knome, the idea with the installer is to each of us push to each branch, right?
<knome> i don't mind where you push ;)
<knome> but it's probably better to prepare it off the main branch
<elfy> slickymaster: I assume you saw mine ^^
<knome> at least until you have one of the slides complete
<slickymaster> no elfy
<slickymaster> can you post the link elfy?
<elfy> https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/thanks
<slickymaster> danka elfy 
<elfy> the poll needs more than just my view obviously 
<slickymaster> elfy, what's the meaning of your commit message? "chg to thanks"
<slickymaster> changed?
<elfy> yea
<slickymaster> ahahahah
<slickymaster> ok, I'll work on my branch also knome 
<slickymaster> anyway, you're the only one you has the rights to push to main
<knome> yep
<knome> you can do MP's
<slickymaster> yeah, but that's unecessary I think
<knome> because you expect me to merge manually? :P
<knome> no, please do MP's at least once you're done with all the content changes
<knome> or if you want, once for each slide
<slickymaster> no, what I was thinking is that at the end you cherry pick from my branch and from elfy's and push a final MP
<knome> well
<knome> i was just thinking that it's nicer to see the MP's and the diff's
<knome> remember that i'm mostly poking non-content
<slickymaster> ok, I'll do a proper MP
<slickymaster> no problem knome 
<knome> thanks
<slickymaster> I targeting tomorrow - thursday the most
<slickymaster> s/I/I'm
<knome> mhm
<knome> i'm not
<elfy> knome: did mine - marked you reviewer
<knome> elfy, ta
<knome> will check it likely today then
<slickymaster> knome, 'mhm'...
<slickymaster> meaning...
<knome> "ok"
<slickymaster> not mumbling thrn
<slickymaster> * then
<slickymaster> ;)
<knome> of course i'm mumbling, just to annoy you
<elfy> ha
<slickymaster> yeah, you do that :P
 * knome puts a big bun in his mouth, mumbles very annoyingly and smiles wide
<elfy> lol
<slickymaster> that's quite a picture
<knome> yes
 * slickymaster will try no to check today's backlog
<slickymaster> s/no/now
<elfy> well I'm wandering off now 
<slickymaster> good night elfy 
<knome> it's going to be a take in my new movie "how to get slimy masters over the edge"
<knome> nighty elfy 
<elfy> ha ha 
<elfy> nutty as fruitcakes the lot of you
<knome> i prefer my nuts not in the fruitcake
<knome> regardless the way you want to interpret that...
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-04
<slickymaster> knome, elfy -> https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+merge/251682
<slickymaster> knome that's just text and slide order wise ^^
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1401609 looks lovely.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1401609 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmusicbrowser crashed with SIGSEGV in emission_find()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i might
<ochosi> 've seen that bug myself
<ochosi> but not sure i can reproduce it some way
<Akusari> good morning
<Akusari> I have the same copy+crash bug with thunar (using 1.65) like this bug report: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11450 I can't find any ubuntu bug report so far. Do i missed something?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11450 in core "Thunar 1.64 & 1.65 crash when copy pasting" [Critical,Needinfo]
<Akusari> I think this bug is still not fixed, right? (1.6.6 has the same problem?)
<ochosi> yeah, pretty sure it's not fixed yet
<Akusari> ok, let me install the debug symbol versions and run with gnu debugger and hope i can repeat this bug :-) (i think thats the main problem)
<elfy> ochosi: did you catch that odd thing I see arranging desktop icons ? 
<ochosi> i'm not using desktop icons
<ochosi> so no
<elfy> I'll just do a bug report for it from live tonight then
<Akusari> That's really a nasty bug. I did around 50 copy+paste jobs so far and no crash so far :-( btw: I don't believe this is a usb device related topic. In my case it happend on system harddisk.
<Akusari> This bug isn't easy anyway. If it doesn't happen in a repeat case it could be a thread race condition problem as well.
<Akusari> btw: If someone wants lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings in trusty i did a backport and it runs fine (screenshot: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04032015-103635.php) . I'm using it on my product system as well. My test ppa ppa:daniel-mehrmann/test. Its on your own risk of course ;-) Well, it needs a newer lightdm-gtk-greeter as well (includes in this ppa)
<ochosi> Akusari: newer greeter might also need a newer version of greybird
<ochosi> or to be concrete a newer version of the greeter.css in greybird
<Akusari> hmmm, ok, i'll take a look :-) I found no graphic errors so far
<ochosi> i'm pretty sure the 2.0 greeter needs some style changes
<Akusari> yep, thats why i'm using version 1.9
<Akusari> in this ppa (combinations)
<Akusari> lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.9.0 + lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings 1.1.0
<Akusari> i saw these problems in 2.0 
<Akusari> so, this versions will be used currently https://launchpad.net/~daniel-mehrmann/+archive/ubuntu/test
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, ali1234 bluesabre I confirm the following fixed with the new gtk2 release now in the 15.04 archive.
<flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mate/+bug/1425401
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1425401 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Notification area crashed upon booting to the live DE (i386 only)" [High,Confirmed]
<ochosi> flexiondotorg: that's great news!
<slickymasterWork> elfy, regarding your comments on my installer-slideshow MP: I'll fix the 'wether' typo tonight. Yes, your rewording is semantically better, so I'll use it instead. The paths are to be corrected when the new images/screenshots are included.
<slickymasterWork> knome ^^^
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, ali1234 bluesabre I've change the ubuntu-mate-default-settings package so that it does not conflict with xubuntu-default-settings.
<flexiondotorg> I've created a simple script that run as an autostart application.
<ochosi> oh, how did you change it exactly?
<flexiondotorg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10526212/
<flexiondotorg> The auto stat application is only accessible to MATE.
<flexiondotorg> So, if the user has install Xubuntu which place Trolltech.conf in ~/.config and then installs Ubuntu MATE.
<flexiondotorg> My script will attempt to lay down it's Trolltech.conf, but only if there isn't one already present.
<flexiondotorg> The Xubuntu Trolltech.conf carries the most important setting that I would want. theming via GTK+
<flexiondotorg> Has the benefit that every login can overlay config, if it doesn't already exist and I can deliver updates too.
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: that's an interesting solution
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Interesting good or interesting bad? ;)
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome: should we make an announcement in the coming weeks that xubuntu 12.04 EOL is just around the corner?
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: I'd only say interesting if I didn't think it was awful
<bluesabre> ;)
<bluesabre> Unit193: your trusty debdiff doesn't apply to the latest trusty release https://launchpadlibrarian.net/199179199/exo-trusty.debdiff -- exo (0.10.2-3ubuntu1.14.04.1)
<bluesabre> ochosi, elfy: exo 0.10.3 uploaded to ubuntu (vivid), xubuntu-staging (vivid), xfce-4.12 (trusty and utopic)
<bluesabre> if folks have need for an immediate package, that will handle it
<bluesabre> otherwise, we can direct them to editing their helper launcher
<bluesabre> Unit193: test-building your exo package for utopic, then will upload that to utopic-proposed
<bluesabre> suppose we'll need to patch precise as well
<bluesabre> Unit193: uploaded to utopic-proposed
<bluesabre> bbl
<elfy> bluesabre: thanks re exo and re 12.04 EOL I think we'd be silly not too do something - people will forget it's not 2017 
<knome> bluesabre, probably wise, that
<sidi> knome, pleia2 are the Xubuntu tshirts good quality?
<knome> haven't even seen one of them
<knome> sidi, probably too good for you though... :P
<sidi> knome, i sometimes try to look clean.
<knome> i'm sure that's rare.
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> hey guys
<knome> hullo slimy
<slickymasterWork> blargh
<slickymasterWork> knome, besides panel, do you also want to take a menulibre screenshoot?
<slickymasterWork> s/want/want me
<knome> however you fancy
<slickymasterWork> might polite knome 
<slickymasterWork> s/might/mighty
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> sidi: they sent me one, the shirt is very nice!
<pleia2> (we wouldn't have linked to + promoted it without being sure)
<sidi> i see good to know!
<drc> woah...looks like the FF exo- bug got fixed :)
<flexiondotorg> I take you guys are aware of this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/1427654
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1427654 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Vivid) "FFE: switch system init to systemd [not touch] in 15.04" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<elfy> yep
<flexiondotorg> Yep, just saw you gave the nod too :)
<slickymasterWork> knome, FYI I'll be using this standardization for the screenshoots
<slickymasterWork> http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stdsÂ´
<slickymasterWork> http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stds
<slickymasterWork> update on that knome ^^^ No, I won't be using it
<slickymasterWork> I'll go with the default install ones
 * dkessel wonders how to translate "User's" in the multihead configuration screen of lightdm-gtk-greeter
<ochosi> yeah, tbh not sure what that is supposed to do/say
<ochosi> had no time but wanted to get in touch with andrew p. about that
<dkessel> maybe "use the user's desktop background"
<dkessel> but how do i translate that in a short fashion
<ochosi> maybe you could report a bug referring to this string
<dkessel> yes i could
<dkessel> ochosi: there you go, bug 1428224
<ubottu> bug 1428224 in Settings editor for LightDM GTK+ Greeter "table column title "User's" in multihead setup dialog is hard to understand" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1428224
<flexiondotorg> FYI - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mate-settings/+bug/1427182
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1427182 in ubuntu-mate "ubuntu-mate-settings package needs updating" [Critical,New]
<dkessel> knome: it seems you are xubuntu-devel mailing list administrator - i am trying to get a password reminder mail, but i don't get any e-mail...
<dkessel> do you guys know why the translations for "orage" are missing (in vivid)?
<dkessel> it seems to be complete in transifex and git...
<ochosi> maybe there hasn't been a release yet
<ochosi> translations only get to us when releases are done
<ochosi> !orage
<dkessel> oh right. so i could file a bug to get a release
<dkessel> i am asking in xfce-dev
<elfy> ochosi: when were you thinking of doing the next meeting? 
<Unit193> bluesabre: Great!  And whoopsie then.  Wonder if it'd be useful to dump .3 in trusty.
<Unit193> migrating-upgrading.xml:337: element xref: validity error : Element xref does not carry attribute linkend
<Unit193> migrating-upgrading.xml:337: element xref: validity error : No declaration for attribute linked of element xref
<Unit193> guide-keeping-safe.xml:297: element menuchoice: validity error : Element menuchoice content does not follow the DTD, expectin
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, sorry i haven't set the date yet, actually i have some really important things next week between mon and wed
<ochosi> wanted to set it shortly before the UIF
<elfy> yep - no worries, just wondering is all :)
<slickymaster> knome, pleia2, can you please propagate
<slickymaster> in our media channels https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-March/010662.html
<Unit193> slickymaster: See the broken stuff I pasted?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Looks like xfce 4.12 is about to hit Debian experimental.
<slickymaster> hey Unit193
<slickymaster> no I didn't. Where did you past it?
<bluesabre> Unit193: see that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emacs24/+bug/1425972 got bumped?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1425972 in exo (Ubuntu) "Firefox no longer supports -remote parameter" [Medium,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> want to do the SRU honors, or should I?
<bluesabre> actually, I'll go ahead and do that
<knome> slickymaster, tweeted
<pleia2> slickymaster: put on g+ & fb
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-05
<Unit193> bluesabre: No, I didn't.  I'm not subbed. :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: np, took care of it :)
<Unit193> Yey!  And I'll check when I'm back to better internet. :P
<Unit193> Mmmm.  So the new verve plugin needs to make it in for Wombat.
<Unit193> (Fails gcc5: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/198355787/buildlog_ubuntu-vivid-i386.xfce4-verve-plugin_1.0.0-3_BUILDING.txt.gz)
<elfy> mornign
<Unit193> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20150202-gcc5-vivid.html#xubuntu that is.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Any ETA on the remaining 4.12 packages?
<elfy> slickymaster: are you not seeing the offscreen bug now? 
<ochosi> i think nothing has been done to really fix that, so it's sorta impossible not to see it
<elfy> just wondered looking at the tracker - I still see it 
<elfy> o/ brainvvash 
<brainvvash> good morning elfy 
<slickymasterWork> thanks for that knome and pleia2 
<slickymasterWork> elfy, ochosi, I didn't caught the offscreen bug with yesterday image
<ochosi> wat, for realz?
<slickymasterWork> yeaps ochosi :)
<ochosi> that is weird news :)
<ochosi> afaik nobody has touched this so it theoretically shouldn't work
<slickymasterWork> it did, even with the Install (manual partitioning)
<slickymasterWork> I didn't have to start from withing the live session
<ochosi> ok, i'll check that out a bit later
<ochosi> with daily i presume?
<slickymasterWork> okie
<slickymasterWork> yes, with yesterday's daily
<ochosi> slickymasterWork, elfy, ali1234: wow, indeed the offscreen bug is resolved in the latest daily /o\
<ochosi> i guess it must've been this: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=58f9f51d1f438dcaa208937314c9d61bb33d1574
<slickymasterWork> most probably
<slickymasterWork> anyway it's fixed and that's all it matters for us
<ochosi> yeah, i want to mark the bug fixed with a reference to the correct commit though
<ochosi> still waiting for feedback from upstream about that
<slickymasterWork> :)~
<ochosi> i guess both commits are related to fixing the bug, maybe it doesnt really matter whether it was just one or both
 * slickymasterWork agrees
<slickymasterWork> knome, the screenshots for the installer slideshow: http://imgur.com/L9nDGSS and http://imgur.com/gKDma6u
<slickymasterWork> *screenshoots
<slickymasterWork> bah, it was right the first time :P
<jjfrv8> away
<jjfrv8> away afk
<jjfrv8> haven't had my coffee yet :(
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> after finally reinstalling vivid, nvivia drivers work and sound quality is greatly improved :)
<elfy> hey bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<ochosi> oh hey guys :)
<bluesabre> how goes?
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<elfy> hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> sorry about the meeting time, hope some ppl can atten
<ochosi> d
<bluesabre> snow day in kentucky
<elfy> ochosi: I *might* manage - not sure tbh 
<ochosi> bluesabre: lucky you!
<slickymasterWork> not sure also ochosi
<ochosi> :/
<elfy> ochosi:  but I can give you my opinion beforehand for the 3 discussion points and #info's
<elfy> bluesabre: I've lost track on what's going on with 4.12 - still trying to get something out of [NEW] ?
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, why not
<bluesabre> elfy: its stuck in -proposed now
<bluesabre> going to start pinging once my laptop is back to normal
<ochosi> i guess you already read that the ubiquity bug is fixed with xfwm4 4.12?
<elfy> ochosi: yep - meant to mention that - I double checked :)
<bluesabre> cool, glad to hear
<bluesabre> I have an efi laptop so the default booted me to the live session, didn't check
<elfy> also need to double check this odd arrange icon thing I see here
<elfy> have people other than Unit193 and me seen that systemd as default is really close now? 
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> last blocker out of the way with nfs
<elfy> yep
<bluesabre> and init gets installed by default
<bluesabre> its super close
<elfy> yep - next week looks like
 * bluesabre is prepared to not update for 2 weeks
 * elfy hadn't got around to installing systemd-sysv so I booted from first line yet
<elfy> might be useful as an #announcement in meeting perhaps
<bluesabre> ochosi: missing icon on first run of transmission: http://i.imgur.com/g3SmBwM.png
<ochosi> use gtkinspector pls
<ochosi> and tell me the name of that icon
<bluesabre> it just shows image-missing
<ochosi> wat
<ochosi> that is weird, it should show something more
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/1Zkgv5L.png
<ochosi> reminds me, i have to set the icons in gtk2 on buttons to 16px
<ochosi> otherwise everything is mighty inconsistent with gtk3
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> i guess we have to look into transmissions code then
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> have you tried with ubuntu's theme?
<ochosi> or adwaita-icon-theme?
<ochosi> any theme that might display that icon would also solve the riddle
<bluesabre> image-missing in adwaita, gnome, and humanity
<bluesabre> >.<
<ochosi> pfff
<bluesabre> downloading faenza
<ochosi> unlikely such an old theme would have an icon that gnome doesn't
<ochosi> maybe it uses "image-missing"? :D
<bluesabre> image-missing there too
<bluesabre> craaaaaazy
 * ochosi shrugs
<ochosi> maybe ask in #u-devel?
<ochosi> bluesabre: we might need another x-d-s release/upload before UIF
<ochosi> because of my last commit
<slickymasterWork> am I gone absolutely mental or weren't we shipping VirtualBox in our image about a month ago?
<slickymasterWork> we aren't now. At least as of yesterday's image
<slickymasterWork> elfy, ochosi ^^
<ochosi> we're definitely not intending to ship that by default
<elfy> shouldn't be shipping vbox 
<ochosi> so not doing so now is definitely a good thing
<elfy> ochosi: lol
<slickymasterWork> but I swear that it was there, then
<slickymasterWork> back then
<elfy> pretty sure it's never been
<slickymasterWork> elfy, I'm sure of what I'm saying. I can't now be completely accurate about the image in question, it was from the end of January - beginning of February, but that it had a default VBox installed, it had
<elfy> don't disbelieve you - if that was the case, then good it's not now 
<slickymasterWork> yeah, but it's odd anyway
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> bluesabre: mousepad gtk3 is a bit crashy, let's rather go with the gtk2 build for now
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre - so systemd finally got a real nod for Monday
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> good to know
<Noskcaj> ochosi, What are you doing to get mousepad to crash? I've not seen one yet
<ochosi> Noskcaj: open multiple files from thunar
<elfy> ochosi: really? I did that to say I didn't see Noskcaj's issue
<ochosi> it's not bout multiple files at once, it's about opening files time and time again
<ochosi> then sometimes it freezes
<ochosi> and xfwm4 asks for it to be killed
<ochosi> no idea what the cause is, haven't really had the time to get a backtrace or even terminal output
<elfy> ok - same file, different files? I can at least try and confirm 
<ochosi> different files
<ochosi> i just used it regularly as always
<ochosi> sometimes it crashed
<ochosi> and i used the gtk2 version on a daily basis as well, never crashed
<elfy> ok - well I tend towards nano tbh for most - generall system things - I'll force me :)
<ochosi> for that i use vim :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: I had the issue with mousepad gtk2 daily in trusty
<ochosi> oh nice :/
<bluesabre> it got so bad that I had to switch to using gedit at work
<ochosi> so there might be a crasher in mousepad regardless of toolkit
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> we should prolly try to get a backtrace then
<ochosi> or not ship 0.4.0 just yet, if we can hold back on that
<bluesabre> haven't reproduced on newer versions of ubuntu
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> i'm on vivid
<bluesabre> mhm
<elfy> ochosi: last time I used vim was for sudoers ... 
<elfy> that was just awesome fun
<ochosi> bluesabre: a few days more and i think we can throw xfpm-gtk3 into the staging PPA so elfy can have some fun ;)
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: sounds like a plan :D
<ochosi> it's already working and not really crashing anymore
<ochosi> so just a few more tweaks now
 * elfy bets some of that ether coffee he can break it ... 
<ochosi> give it your best shot, mate! :)
<ochosi> (only regressions count though)
<elfy> hah
<Noskcaj> ochosi, I can't see any crashes here, 0.4.0 on vivid
<ochosi> Noskcaj: good for you. luckily it only happens rarely
<ochosi> it does happen though
<Noskcaj> ok, i'll keep looking for it
<ochosi> when i'm done with my xfpm work i'll probably try to reproduce it and get traces
<ochosi> Noskcaj: that crash of mousepad just happened again. seems opening >7 instances helps
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-06
<Espionage724> hmm, so I just did a clean install of today's Xubuntu 15.04 daily (BIOS mode with the LVM + encryption disk encryption options checked; no home folder encryption), and on the first boot after install, I only have a gray screen with a cursor on it
<jumapico> Hi guys. Someone can tell me where is the source code of the xubuntu cd installer? (ubiquity?)
<Unit193> `bzr branch lp:ubiquity`  to get it.
<jumapico> trying...
<Unit193> May take a while.  Do you want to view it online?  The site tends to be a little on the slower side, but you can if you'd like.
<jumapico> no, i want write a preseed file
<jumapico> currently i have issues with the partman step
<jumapico> i want check the code, due i can't found documentation about the preseed options
<Unit193> Did you happen to find https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbiquityAutomation?
<jumapico> yes
<jumapico> currently i have problems with this step: http://imgur.com/Ix14Q7q
<jumapico> Install: Installation type (in partman?)
<jumapico> i don't know how preseed that option
<Unit193> d-i partman-auto/method string regular  ?
<Unit193> d-i partman-auto/disk string /dev/sda  too perhaps, or the like.
<jumapico> nope :(
<jumapico> i'm using this preseed as base: http://pastebin.com/dW3q8aZs
<Unit193> Line 33?
<jumapico> A typo error, yes. It is ignored, (i think), as line 57
<jumapico> (invalid/unknown options)
<Unit193> partman-auto/choose_recipe select atomic
<jumapico> yes, i miss it in this version. Maybe is best rewrite the file, with the steps needed to partman. Give me a sec
<jumapico> (mins...)
<Unit193> Since ubiquity is supposed to use the same as d-i, I'm basing off of http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/example-preseed.txt
<Unit193> I'd say not a lot of us in here use preseeds much, if you can't get it with that, I'd recommend #ubuntu-desktop or #ubuntu-installer.
<Unit193> Hah, yeeeah. :P
<jumapico> yes, i try that example, but the xubuntu desktop installer adds some steps 
<Unit193> Indeed.
<jumapico> Unit193, with this partial preseed i can't pass the install screen: http://pastebin.com/ZYm7dmXn
<jumapico> based in the example-preseed.txt
<jumapico> now i search in the file ubiquity/plugins/ubi-partman.py, i think that the step is stepPartAsk (from autopilot/ubiquity_autopilot_tests/configs/english_label_conf.py)
<jumapico> Unit193, thanks for your help! (i need rest for today, tomorrow i hope resolve the problem!)
<Unit193> jumapico: Heh, sure.  Good luck!
<Unit193> bluesabre, ochosi: Will this help?  http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=ea9c3ae7644bcf118b5c66f52c75ec5396746e42
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, I have an xfce4-places-plugin I can sell you.
<Unit193> Same place.
<Unit193> Pushed new pulseaudio plugin too, git and ppa.
<Unit193> FWIW, xfce4-places-plugin-1.7.0 still fails with gcc5. :D
<ochosi> Unit193: i'm not sure what you mean, but if you're referring to the offscreen windows bug in ubiquity, that was already fixed by xfwm4 4.12
<ochosi> but yeah, i talked to olivier about that yesterday and he said he would rewrite some of the struts code
<elfy> morning peeps
<Unit193> Peeper peep.
<elfy> what's the pulseaudio plugin about? we intending to use it? test it? play with it? ignore it as an aberration? or something entirely different :)
<ochosi> for 15.10 it could well be an indicator-sound replacement
<ochosi> i've been working on it a bit lately
<ochosi> it works, but still has quite a few things to be ironed out
<ochosi> which is no surprise, first release was about 1week ago and the second one a few hrs ago
<ochosi> elfy: btw, that xfpm crash challenge is on!
<Unit193> I'm going with 'ignore it as an aberration'
<ochosi> it's ready from my side so as soon as we have a package you can get down to testing it
<elfy> ochosi: ok thanks - ignore it for a while? or? I'm happy enough to try the thing - of the 3 indicators we have currently the only one I use is sound 
<elfy> ochosi: ok :D
<ochosi> sure, testing it doesn't really hurt
<ochosi> just don't double-right-click it ;)
<Unit193> elfy: No media player controls on this one, fwiw.
 * Unit193 hides in shame.
<ochosi> yeah, at least not yet
<elfy> Unit193: :)
<Unit193> "Why would anyone do that?"  "I don't know, ask Unit 193"
<elfy> ochosi: ok - I'll look later - I assume it's at 'extras'
<Unit193> Noooo, that's my funhouse.
<ochosi> elfy: i'll ping you with a link
<ochosi> tbh i'd prefer if you test it first and we only make it available to a wider audience via -staging after that
<elfy> ochosi: okey doke
<ochosi> if we do that, i'll bump the versioning to 1.5
<Unit193> elfy: You good with unit193/staging for now?
<elfy> Unit193: :p
<elfy> I'm good with whatever people say its' "here" :D
<Unit193> Well that's where it is.
<ochosi> failed to build?
<ochosi> oh, only utopic
<ochosi> so that's ok
<Unit193> No?
<Unit193> Ah yeah, upower, didn't bother.
<ochosi> yeah, nvm
<ochosi> this is targetted at gtk3.14, so no utopic
<ochosi> elfy: so lemme know how it goes, i just installed it successfully from Unit193's staging ppa and it works smoothly
<slickymasterWork> did you had time to see my MP to the slideshow? And also, the screenshots?
<slickymasterWork> knome: ^^
<knome> i've seen them, but not processed
<slickymasterWork> ok
<elfy> ochosi: mmm - I thought you were talking about the pa plugin :D
<ochosi> nope, xfpm is there now
<elfy> yep just grabbing it now
<ochosi> cool
<elfy> show system tray icon enabled - doesn't show though
<ochosi> wfm
<ochosi> but i have to admit that will likely be dropped anyway
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> but it should work
<ochosi> as i said, wfm
<elfy> definitely isn't here
<ochosi> you could do "xfce4-panel -q; xfce4-panel" in the terminal
<ochosi> maybe there's some output
<elfy> rebooted - shows now
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> that's ok then
<elfy> even if it's going to be dropped :)
<ochosi> well, we'll see
<ochosi> maybe we'll keep it as long as gtk3 supports it somewhat
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> anything else?
<ochosi> managed to break it yet? :)
<elfy> not yet :p
<elfy> dealing with food issues atm ;)
<ochosi> sorry to hear you're having *issues* with food ;)
<elfy> :D
<krytarik> slickymaster: Just fixed all of the current issues in the ES docs translation.  knome: You might want to update this link yourself: <ulink url=\"http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/apps/ristretto\">
<slickymasterWork> krytarik, thanks for that. tbh I thought there were all fixed
<ochosi> elfy: so everything smooth with xfpm-gtk3 so far?
<jjfrv8> dpkg -l xfpm*
<jjfrv8> no excuse this time :)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: i've just asked elfy to test xfpm's gtk3 version from Unit193 PPA to see whether things generally work ok to make it public for wider testing
<jjfrv8> right, saw that
<Unit193> xfpm = xfce4-power-manager for the lazy.
<elfy> ochosi: smooth as silk unfortunately - have an ether coffee on me 
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> not sure you read, but ff brought back the -remote option in 36.0.1 :D
<elfy> ha ha 
<ochosi> grrr, i might not be able to make the meeting tonight :/
<ochosi> !team | who of you will be there for tonight's meeting?
<ubottu> who of you will be there for tonight's meeting?: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<elfy> still not sure here 
<Unit193> Depends, what's the question?
<ochosi> well, if nobody can attend, i can also cancel it
<ochosi> if ppl attend, i'd first ask one of you to chair in case i can't make it
<Unit193> More importantly, anything on the agenda?
<ochosi> well, those three things
<ochosi> but i don't think any of them are really pressing at this stage
<elfy> agree with that 
<ochosi> too late for that now
<ochosi> other than that, nothing special, UIF is creeping up, but we got our things sorted already
<ochosi> unless things start to break real bad now, i think we have a good status quo
<Unit193> Basically, that's a great time for me, but those are too late now and I don't want to discuss them anyway. :P
<Unit193> ochosi: systemd! ;)
<ochosi> lol, yeah, that
<ochosi> but that happens on monday
<ochosi> so we have the whole week to clean up after it
<ochosi> have any of you tried it so far?
<slickymasterWork> not sure yet also, ochosi 
<Unit193> Nooo, not at all.  I haven't been testing and using it since trusty.
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> Unit193: so what should we expect? havoc and mayhem?
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: ok, thanks, good to know
<ochosi> friday night was a really bad idea :/
<slickymasterWork> :)
<Unit193> ochosi: Worst case, you'll merely have to hard power-off. :P
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> great
<Unit193> Only a problem somewhere in the stack, policykit/logind/systemd got out of sync, wouldn't let you poweroff, suspend, shutdown.  A couple times it would be only with the admin password, and those times wouldn't let you mount without it either.  But hopefully those are all behind now.
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> yeah, hopefully
<ochosi> otherwise they *hopefully* wouldn't push it
<elfy> well suspend shutdown is working here :)
<ochosi> that's good news i guess :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> as far as meeting is concerned nothing that can't be put off
<ochosi> alright
<elfy> saves me typing stuff into a pad for you too :D
<ochosi> then i'll try to schedule one for mon or tue around noon
<ochosi> wat, pad?
<ochosi> release notes for b2?
<elfy> no ... what I would have said in the meeting :)
<ochosi> ah, hehe
<ochosi> alrighty, gotta run
<elfy> cya - have a good one
<ochosi> if i'm not back for the meeting and nobody else wants to chair, i'll schedule a new one
<ochosi> sorry for the mess
<ochosi> cyall
<Noskcaj> ochosi, I'll be around for the meeting. it's 2100, isn't it?
<elfy> Noskcaj: the meeting is 2100 but no telling who's going to be around 
<elfy> likely ochosi won't be either
<elfy> and hi elky :p
<elky> hi
<Unit193> andrzejr: Howdy.  So haven't filed it yet, but with xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin all you have to do to crash it is double right click on it.
<andrzejr> Unit193, cannot reproduce it. What version do you use?
<Unit193> 0.2.0.  Try left clicking first, then right double clicking.
<andrzejr> nope, can you run:
<andrzejr> PANEL_DEBUG=gdb xfce4-panel
<andrzejr> ?
<andrzejr> you should see a stacktrace in /tmp
<andrzejr> also, does the slider work for you? ochosi was reporting some problems with new gtk3
<andrzejr> Unit193?
<Unit193> Hello!
<Unit193> I'm updating another system now to pull it in, I was on another computer testing and this one isn't on vivid nor does it use pulse.
<andrzejr> I see, please let me know if you find something more
<Unit193> andrzejr: Slider is a bit broken, or rather unusably broken.
<andrzejr> what exactly do you see?
<andrzejr> (it works fine here on gtk3.12)
<Unit193> http://unit193.net/1425674377_gdb_pulseaudio_9.log  When you click it, it jumps, drag it and it's several steps or more behind you.  Click it again and it jumped to 0.
<Unit193> Pretty sure that'll be of no use.
<andrzejr> Unit193, can you try this patch: http://pastebin.com/n57H68aq ?
<andrzejr> ochosi says it fixes the problem on gtk 3.14, unfortunately it breaks the slider on 3.12
<knome> i'm around at least somehow for the meeting
<knome> pleia2, do you want to go through the -contacts email together, or how do you want to handle it?
<andrzejr> Unit193, when the plugin crashes, do you see anything printed to the console?
<andrzejr> (assuming xfce4-panel was started from a terminal)
<Unit193> Yeah, a few things.  Problem is figuring out what is from where.
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/ql9vgdZK5I2LtFvmoAKe/ meh.
<andrzejr> Unit193, is there any devel iso image of xubuntu 15.04? I want to reproduce these issues
<Unit193> andrzejr: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ (if I typed it right.)
<Unit193> Figure you'll compile from source, but ppa:xubuntu-dev/extras
<PaulW2U> 192.com
<PaulW2U> oops :)
<flexiondotorg_> Evening.
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, Did you test Xubuntu 14.04.2?
<elfy> flexiondotorg_: yes
<elfy> why?
<elfy> so I assume we just all carefully avoided 2100 to make ochosi feel good ? 
<elfy> :)
<knome> i was kind of around then
<knome> but not earlier to tell i would..
<elfy> I was for sure not
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-07
<knome> )
<elky> elfy: i get the feeling the bug i reported hasn't gone anywhere fast btw :P
<elfy> elky: it's a bit edge case I guess
<elky> yeah
<elfy> elky: *we* have had some odd ones lately - would be good to double check that if you can
<elfy> with new image 
<elky> was considering it, yes
<elky> maybe over the weekend
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> actually - know the bug #? 
<elfy> gah - another tracker bug
<elfy> :(
<elky> sec
<elky> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1419555
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1419555 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "initial install/try window is not displayed on netbook screen" [High,Confirmed]
<elky> i brought it up in browser to check before i made a liar of myself :P
<elky> bbiab
<elfy> elky: yea - I wonder if that's the first appearance of bug 1425690
<ubottu> bug 1425690 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "New windows are created offscreen" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425690
<elfy> which is fixed 
<elfy> would be good to mark that as a dupe :)
<elky> yay
<elky> i'll double check it beofre i do that ok
<elfy> just need to sync the image or grab a new one
<elky> and dig out the netbook again :3
<elfy> :)
<elky> anyway bbl
<elfy> I got a nexus7 from the community fund - been fun playing with that and ubuntu
<elfy> knome: really do need to stop the 'it's awesome" in the support channel :)
<knome> lol
<elfy> knome: did you look at the 'poll' at all? 
<elfy> tried to make it things that people could replace 
<elfy> and not a list of 'all'
<knome> not after the first time i looked at it, no
<knome> i've been lagging behind in FOSS work the last days
<elfy> right - well not much different - if you're about over weekend I am, perhaps shout out if you want
<knome> likely not very much, but who knows... plans tend to change
<elfy> ok
<elfy> an evening midweek works too - or almost has to :p
<knome> heh, yeah
<knome> i should be able to look at stuff on mon/tue
<knome> or late sunday
<elfy> knome: well I guess have a look then shout 
<knome> yep, i will :)
<elfy> pretty sure for this - there really isn't much choice of what and how 
<knome> midweek might very well work as well
<knome> but no promises yet
<knome> i still have to polish the wallpaper
<knome> and the screenshot looks
<knome> and the feature stuff :)
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> and frankly - we can play with the poll content to day release 
<elfy> as long as link is on slide *shrug*
<elfy> so - content 
<knome> hehe
<knome> yes
<knome> i'm also thinking if it should be an url on xubuntu.org
<knome> so we can in the worst case change the content completely
<knome> also allows us to explains ourselves a bit more
<elfy> that'd work for me 
<elfy> I'd much prefer THAT to a g link for sure
<knome> yep
<knome> so let's do that
<elfy> ok
<knome> i can set it up when i poke at the slideshow
<elfy> can we import ? 
<elfy> or build from scratch? 
<knome> import what?
<elfy> mmmm
<Unit193> Cookies?
<elfy> what do you actually mean? x.org page? or it just links? 
<knome> :D
<knome> i mean that let's put a xubuntu.org link in the slideshow
<elfy> right - and the poll is where? 
<knome> eg. xubuntu.org/15-04-slideshow-poll
<knome> which then links to the google poll
<knome> but i guess we could *at some point* set internal polling too
<knome> to get the layout we want, for example
<elfy> oh right and assume people click that
<knome> but no way that's happening for 15.04..
<elfy> mmmm
<knome> well, slim chance, but don't count on that :P
<knome> i think it's ok to do the polls on google for now
<knome> but making it a xubuntu link makes it less fishy
<elfy> mmmm
<knome> at least we aren't directing people directly to google
<knome> they might not want to do that
<elfy> I understand that point
<elfy> on the other hand - that just gives people 2 points to drop out at
<elfy> ok
<knome> and the explanation page will then be completely in our control at all times (eg. not in the slideshow which needs an upload to fix...)
<knome> well *shrug*
<elfy> we've got 2 groups of people
<knome> if people won't click two links, then they probably aren't interested in filling that biggish poll either
<elfy> 1 - old users, grabbing image - the poll really is for them anyway
<elfy> 1 - old users. not even looking
<knome> i guess the *other* thing we could do
<elfy> 2 - new users, they can't answer yet - they can at month 5
<knome> is not to have the specific slide in the slideshow
<knome> but link to it from the release announcement
<elfy> so - basic link in slideshow
<knome> i don't really know
<knome> the problem you just outlined is... problemativ
<knome> *c
<elfy> then regular pings to social stuff
<knome> yeah...
<knome> that worked pretty well last time
<elfy> same poll
<knome> and avoids confusion
<knome> so, mm
<elfy> if we can make it differentiate - maybe link from social is different
<knome> can be
<knome> but then if we do the social media stuff
<knome> how much good is the slideshow going to bring?
<elfy> I like running the link in slideshow
<elfy> new users WILL see it 
<knome> yeah, it's not a bad idea 
<knome> but then again it's not for new users
<knome> :/
<elfy> then maybe - oh., doesnt affect me - join social channels - see's bump
<elfy> oh it does NOW
<knome> heh
<knome> yeah...
<knome> but if that's it, why don't we shout out about our social media channels in the slideshow?
<elfy> I didn'ty use that - used foo and bar 
<knome> (which is actually a nice idea...)
<elfy> get a response
<knome> they should get that poll on upgrade :P
<elfy> always we're only going to get responses from people who do 
<elfy> yep - if we can :)
<elfy> they WOULD be people we want 
<knome> well we can't bind any poll to upgrade :P
<elfy> I did change this, that, the other
<knome> i guess the best thing to do is to get publicity to the poll just before upgrade time
<elfy> is that WE or CAN'T :D
<elfy> yea for sure :)
<knome> so to sum it up
<knome> my main "concern"/doubt is that we're showing a poll to X people
<elfy> I just think that if nothing else we get data we can't analyse - but we DO have data :)
<knome> how many of those are actually people who are appropriate?
<knome> or should we change the poll in a way that made all replies appropriate?
<elfy> that's one of y concerns
<knome> make them answer new/old user
<knome> or user since X
<elfy> impossible really - 2 different questions
<elfy> did you change foo
<elfy> do youy intend to change foo
<knome> mhm
<knome> but
<knome> we can direct them at different form pages
<elfy> not sure there is one
<elfy> but... 
<elfy> oooh
<elfy> good point 
<knome> eg. if they pick "new user", we can point them to a page that asks "how good do you think the xubuntu default application selection is?"
<knome> or "do you think you will install new applications after installation?"
<elfy> yea that would work 
<knome> or something like that
<knome> and if you are an old user, just give them the poll we have now
<elfy> yea
<knome> that would solve the problem of some people not being the target
<elfy> but new user - here is this poll - does kind of point at poll #3
<elfy> you said you would - did you - did it work? 
<elfy> did you go back?
<knome> right...
<knome> then we'd have to gather their email addresses (opt-in of course)
<knome> and it would require some more work
<elfy> not sure if we're over egging the pudding here
<knome> to compare the results
<knome> well, that would be nice, but it's a very long-term plan
<elfy> I tink if we can get useful data  out of a cycle - we're on a plus
<elfy> I like 2 polls 
<knome> fortunately, if we set up the link like i proposed (via xubuntu.org), we can really postpone the "real" publishing date until the release day
<elfy> yea ;)
<knome> the thing we need to do now is to create the placeholder page in the right place
<knome> and make sure the slideshow content makes sense
<knome> eg. it doesn't talk too much about the poll
<elfy> basically we've got till release day to decide on the 2 polls
<knome> well it should be one poll
<knome> with a branch
<elfy> no
<knome> nope
<elfy> yea
<knome> first page asks new/old user
<knome> and then branches based on that
<knome> two polls is just overcomplicating
<knome> imo
<elfy> yea - so *we* building 3 polls
<elfy> first is new or old - then they point to the others
<knome> no... :D
<knome> the google poll system can branch inside the same poll
<elfy> yes
<knome> based on the answer to a question
<knome> so one poll, but a landing page and two branches ;)
<elfy> not sure I understand how you can make 1 question deal with the 3 alternatives
<knome> lol
<knome> what's the third alternative?
<knome> trollface?
<elfy> yea - used it
<elfy> yea - used it - this is just a joke surely
<knome> :P
<elfy> this is just a joke surely - I used this 
<knome> you are being too confusing :P
<elfy> no I'm not
<knome> well it's probably not helping it's 3am...
<elfy> you're just assuming that people like gmb :D
<elfy> hah
<knome> oh, you mean that part of the poll
<elfy> so - another day to carry on then :)
<knome> i was talking about the branching new and old users :D
<knome> you were clearly talking about the poll we have laid out now
<knome> or am i still misunderstanding...
<elfy> sorry - there are 2 main branches to poll - Xubuntu is new/Xubuntu is old hat 
<knome> yep
<elfy> been a long day
<knome> now you make sense :D
<elfy> :)
<elfy> as you say - time is marching on, we've actually got a while to sort this out, just need the base link for slideshow
<knome> yep
<knome> and i'll sort that out once i start poking on the slideshow
<knome> and fwiw, current MP's are ok
<knome> i'll manually figure them out
<elfy> knome: ok - I think mine looks good word wise, just the link to sort 
<elfy> I'd like a look at the complete mp once you're sorted too :)
<knome> i'll probably merge it all, then push to the main branch
<knome> and then we can keep on fixing that as needed
<knome> but i'll see if i do a temporary push to a personal LP branch, can link that to you if i do
<elfy> k
<knome> guess i'll also have to figure out who's going to do the upload, and when
<knome> for UI freeze
<knome> and same for strings
<Unit193> cyphermox: Hey, since you were involved with the last console-setup merge, do you know why it does 'initramfs-tools (>= 0.85eubuntu12)' rather than 'initramfs-tools (>= 0.85eubuntu12) | linux-initramfs-tool'?
<brainvvash> bluesabre, can you confirm https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=324120 ? in xubuntu without KDE
<ubottu> KDE bug 324120 in visuals "Mouse cursor theme partially falls back to default Oxygen after relog." [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<brainvvash> bluesabre, restarting xfsettingsd after the relog seems to restore the correct (non default) cursor
<GridNet> all translations that where pending are approved 
<bluesabre> knome: what do you need me to upload, and when?
<krytarik> GridNet: Lovely.
<bluesabre> ochosi: want to sync the icons and add the latest greybird patch?
<bluesabre> (that last one was supposed to be "want me to add the latest greybird patch")
<bluesabre> the last comment before mine on this bug amuses me https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-331/+bug/1308105
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1308105 in xfce4-settings "Xfce resets TV mode to NULL when power cycled" [Critical,Confirmed]
<ochosi> bluesabre: indeed, that sounds like a good idea
<ochosi> i'll see whether i can quickly fix up some more icons
<ochosi> what i would love to look into is the symbolic-encode script
<ochosi> but i'm not sure i'll manage that in time
<bluesabre> ochosi: just give me a ping when you're ready
<bluesabre> need to patch exo for precise today too
<bluesabre> probably one of the more annoying bugs we've had :)
<ochosi> yeah, but you read that ff 36.0.1 re-introduced the -remote flag?
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> missed that one
<ochosi> obviously we weren't the only ones using that :)
<bluesabre> oh, and since thunar 1.6.6 supports gtk3 bookmarks, maybe we want to add some to x-d-s for the common folders?
<ochosi> you mean migrate the xdg dirs?
<bluesabre> yes
<ochosi> tbh i've never dealt with xdg dirs, i thought this is something that is not part of our settings
<ochosi> but some xdg script that generates those folders
<ochosi> (but i might be wrong there)
<bluesabre> not sure
<bluesabre> other DEs do have them in their bookmarks by default
<bluesabre> so there should be a friendly way to accomplish it
<ochosi> i'd guess so
<ochosi> atm the file controlling all that is in 
<ochosi> ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs
<ochosi> gotta love that duplication in the name
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> all of these (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+bug/1424887) uploaded
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1424887 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Xfce 4.12 for Vivid" [Undecided,Triaged]
<ochosi> \o/ nice work bluesabre 
<bluesabre> now for the rebuilds of everything else
<elfy> thanks bluesabre :)
<cyphermox> Unit193: because the initramfs-tools Depends is an Ubuntu delta, and we don't really spend the time to support dracut
<cyphermox> Unit193: I suppose patches are welcome
<cyphermox> (by that I mean, I'll happily sponsor patches if necessary) fwiw, I didn't do the core of the merge, it was done by slangasek. I was asked to do the testing and upload
<Unit193> cyphermox: Right, saw that but figured you might know anywho.  I was planning on bugging the kernel team to fix the kernels depends because the kernels clearly work with dracut (tried it last night.)  I'd love it if we could at least get it installable this or next cycle, even if not supported.  (I was looking at Bug #1109029 again. :P )
<ubottu> bug 1109029 in linux (Ubuntu) "Depend on linux-initramfs-tools" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1109029
<knome> bluesabre, i'll tell you when i've things prepared :)
<cyphermox> Unit193: fair enough
<Unit193> (Newer console-setup was actually the only real thing that was pending.)
<cyphermox> just let me know if you need things sponsored
<cyphermox> yeah, it may be part of the reason why it was merged
<cyphermox> ie. initramfs
<Unit193> Well, there'd be a lot of smaller changes, and likely a bigger one in plymouth.
<cyphermox> really?
<cyphermox> have you also looked at the comments from Adam and Dimitri? it's quite relevant that some of these maybe ought to be fixed in Debian and synced/merged back into Ubuntu
<Unit193> Yes I did, and 'tis why I said plymouth *may* need changes.  The kernel doesn't as the initrd shouldn't have been bootable last night, and it had all the needed modules (I listed before rebooting.)  dracut is installable and usable in Debian as-is, it's "mainly" the alt dep missing for things.  I read the last comment, then looked at the Debian bug tracker if it was ever reported, it was and turns 
<Unit193> out there is a real reason to conflict.  Also, thanks for being open to discussing the topic at all! :)
<Unit193> http://paste.debian.net/hidden/a09961a4/ nice, all due to plymouth apart from /etc/system-release and /usr/share/pixmaps/system-logo-white.png \o/
<cyphermox> well, the only reason you need an alt depend on console-setup is because we add the depends on initramfs-tools
<Unit193> Right, and before it didn't have setupcon.
<cyphermox> it has had setupcon for a while now
<cyphermox> hm, looks like dracut will need changes to know plymouth is in a different location, not the other way around
<Unit193> !find plymouth-populate-initrd vivid
<Unit193> !find plymouth-populate-initrd unstable
<ubottu> Found: W:, W:, W:
<Unit193> Hah.
<ubottu> File plymouth-populate-initrd found in dracut, plymouth
<Unit193> Anywho, I'll see if I can get a local package with plymouth working as well, then test in an encrypted lvm just to confirm there as well.
<knome> bluesabre, ping-a-ling
<knome> bluesabre, here's something you should look at: http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/colorschemes/ (READMEs per directory)
<knome> bluesabre, i can do MPs once we know where we want them; xubuntu-default-settings or xubuntu-artwork; or both
<knome> bluesabre, and it looks like we're not touching mousepad default conf for xubuntu... we might want to start doing that.
<knome> bluesabre, we also seem to be shipping a .Xdefaults file in x-d-s file, but it only seems to have xscreensaver options... we might want to drop that... and same with .xscreensaver
<knome> Unit193, since you might be involved with the packaging, see ^
<ochosi> hey knome 
<knome> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> just saw the colorschemes ping
<ochosi> and yeah, i second that, let's fiddle with mousepad's config
<ochosi> e.g. set search mode to both by default
<ochosi> that would also fix a bug
<knome> yep
<knome> and make sure the font is the same as in the terminal if it isn't already :)
<ochosi> it doesn't use xfconf though, so we might need a gschema file
<ochosi> bluesabre will likely know how that works
<knome> sure... i've stopped worrying about it now, it's passed on to other people :)
<ochosi> wait
<ochosi> that is actually wrong
<ochosi> it seems like we'll be shipping mousepad 0.4.0 with gtk3
<knome> well, have fun with that :)
<ochosi> so the correct path would be gtksourceview-3.0
<knome> aiui, 2.0 themes should work with both 2 and 3
<knome> but, you should test it in vivid with the new mousepad installed..
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> with 3.0 it definitely works in vivid with the new mousepad
<knome> this is exactly why i didn't jump into it and make aMP :)
<ochosi> that's what i'm testing right now
<ochosi> nope, 2.0 doesn't work
<knome> then put to 3.0
<knome> the conf file itself has the same syntax
<ochosi> nice work though, i like the bright theme a lot
<knome> thanks, and glad that you like it
<knome> i've been using the dark variant for a while now and it works at least for my purposes
<knome> the terminal schemes have basically the same colors plus some more
<knome> there the light variant is... a bit meh
<knome> at least with my irssi theme :)
<ochosi> right
<knome> but it works fine enough with htop
<ochosi> i'll give that a try now
<knome> i guess there's always things on terminals that aren't going to work with some setup
<ochosi> yeah, i guess so
<ochosi> well also, irssi is a bit particular
<ochosi> since it has its own colorschemes/themes
<knome> yep
<ochosi> and making a terminal theme that works with any give irssi theme is just... impossible.
<knome> that's why i'm not worrying too much my very customised theme not working with it...
<knome> it actually would work if i switched black/white colors
<knome> but that's probably not expected
<knome> and other light themes do not do it either
<knome> soooo...
<ochosi> humm
<knome> humm?
<ochosi> i guess i'm too used to solarized with irssi
<knome> heh
<ochosi> other than that i guess it'd work well
<knome> with *your irssi theme*
<ochosi> obviously :)
<knome> because i'm sure my theme is completely different
<ochosi> but maybe i'll keep this for a bit, just to tr
<ochosi> y
<knome> yep
<knome> mostly that it works with all terminal apps you use
<ochosi> which arent many
<knome> yep
<knome> i guess i use irssi, ls, htop
<knome> something like that
<ochosi> vim
<knome> nano
<knome> but that's like black and white by default i think
<ochosi> depends on source highlighting
<knome> actually i don't think my nano does any highlighting
<knome> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-08
<knome> krytarik, just start talking more in this channel! :)
<krytarik> LOL - yeah.
<knome> ochosi, krytarik is interested in getting involved more with xubuntu... in case you aren't following -offtopic ;)
<ochosi> welcome krytarik :)
<knome> krytarik, you know all this already, but vivid is turning to a close, and it's time to start planning ww soon, so all ideas are welcome :)
<knome> and formally, welcome! ;)=
<krytarik> Well, thanks. :)
<ochosi> "wicked warthog"
<krytarik> To the both of you.
<knome> wude wabbit
<ochosi> :]
<ali1234> wonky donkey
<krytarik> Doesn't match. :P
<Unit193> cyphermox: Not sure if you're interested, but among the things missing from plymouth's binary package are all manpages.  (Was looking why plymouth-set-default-theme and others weren't installed.)
<cyphermox> looks like plymouth isn't a merge from Debian at all, that probably will need to be fixed in the future, if it's at all possible
<Unit193> Right, and it isn't merged.  d/copyright would become much nicer if it does. ;)
<cyphermox> can you file a bug about the manpages and anything else you find? plymouth is kind of my responsability anyway, but I'm not feeling well enough to spend time on it this weekend
<Unit193> Heh, well since you've asked and might actually look into it, sounds like a great plan!  And understandable, sure.
<cyphermox> any improvements we can make are good, so if there are bugs, and even better, patches, I can pick things to include in other uploads to fix other bugs
<Unit193> \o/
<andrzejr> Unit193, slider coordinates issue in xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin should be now fixed in git. Still looking for a cause of the crash on menu pop-down.
<Unit193> Cool, and alrighty.
<elky> elfy: so i downloaded today's daily to test that bug. i found another bug. in which i get busybox.
 * elky remakes the usb boot disk
<elky> lol i guess it's the build
<elky> lol it works if i make the usb disk with dd
<elky> elfy: bug fixed indeed
<pleia2> knome: re: contacts email, I'll try to be awake tomorrow so we can chat about it
<elfy> elky: excellent - thanks for looking again :)
<bluesabre> knome: looking now
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, I wanted to mess with the mousepad config before, but it was a config file and more annoying as that, now its more flexible
<bluesabre> knome: colorschemes in xubuntu-artwork, default terminalrc in x-d-s?
<ochosi> bluesabre: +1, that makes sense to me!
<Unit193> bluesabre: xfce4-dev-tools, gtk2-engines-xfce, libxfce4util, xfconf, libxfce4ui, exo in exp.
<knome> bluesabre, i would say so; also note that ochosi was +1 on touching the default mousepad config too (to get the default scheme in use there too, and apparently some other settings as well, so that in x-d-s too :))
<knome> bluesabre, but in any case... there you have the configuration i want in :)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Do you have time to sync some of the 4.12 components from debian/exp?
<Noskcaj> xfce4-dev-tools and exo can be synced, i think a few others can too
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-07
<bluesabre> Unit193: that's what we have ochosi for
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Ah, you too high pitched? :3
<bluesabre> yeah, pretty much
<bluesabre> kinda lispy too
<bluesabre> maybe I'll actually use a voice in my next screencast
<Unit193> Just not mine...
<flocculant> bluesabre knome - sort of was re screencast/slideshow - but not for long
<slickymasterWork> dkessel, I'll double check that later at home
<flocculant> though perhaps 
<flocculant> oh good lord
<bluesabre> D:
<flocculant> though perhaps we could have screenshots of a few customised desktops - starting from default - through a couple of other not default - back to finish on default on that slide
<flocculant> is what I meant to type :)
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, knome Have you heard from infinity regarding Base recently?
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: nope - no contact 
<ochosi> knome: so, where can i check out your SASS branch? :)
 * ochosi waits to be lured into SASS porting...
<knome> ochosi, i haven't had time yet to create one...
<ochosi> darn, three days left only...
<knome> :P
<ochosi> yeah, no worries, i mean we can also give the fixing the linked buttons another try
<ochosi> although i gotta admit i'm a bit lost there
<knome> i'm probably more lost than you are though
<ochosi> ridiculous amount of lines: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/blob/master/gtk-3.0/gtk-widgets.css#L2948
<knome> yeah
<knome> maybe it would help me debug the problem (given i have time/motivation for that) if i knew exactly what wasn't working
<ochosi> somehow the matching of linked buttons is messed up
<ochosi> (that's about as specific as it gets ;))
<ochosi> let me quickly do one obvious check...
<ochosi> ok wow
<ochosi> ambiance/radiance aka ubuntu have the same bug
<ochosi> fun times
<ochosi> they had no time/resources to fix that i suppose
<ochosi> sucks that larsu left canonical for red hat
<ochosi> i thought in the worst case we could've copied the code from them
<ochosi> but it actually seems like they would have to borrow it from us
<Unit193> They don't have any GTK people?
<ochosi> i guess not anymore really
<ochosi> when i met larsu at fosdem he said there are still devs who'd take care of this (he mentioned seb128 and Laney) but i suppose not
<knome> "heh"
<knome> ochosi, so would you have some time today?
<ochosi> yeah, some
<ochosi> fwiw, i have a version of greybird that looks less broken than the status quo
<knome> you mean only like the next 15 mins then?
<ochosi> it's a port of adwaita's linked buttons, but for some reason something doesn't work all the way
<ochosi> basically the linked buttons look like normal buttons
<knome> btw, i don't know what a linked button is
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> ok, linked buttons look like they are connected, so only the first and last one have rounded (outer) corners
<knome> so they are window manager buttons?
<knome> see, i'm lost
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/Xj0hUPk.png
<ochosi> e.g. the sidebar in parole
<ochosi> less broken greybird: http://i.imgur.com/ki9saQQ.png
<knome> aha
<knome> ughhh
<knome> that's horrible in its own way
<ochosi> full broken ambiance (same as greybird trunk): http://i.imgur.com/wM77Z16.png
<knome> haha
<ochosi> so obviously the first/last matching is broken
<ochosi> at *least*
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> plus the matching of all items in between
<ochosi> ;)
<knome> and this only happens with the gtk in xenial?
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> craaaaaaap
<ochosi> i think i'm seeing one problem
<knome> yes?
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/xIFD5dv.png
<ochosi> one selector has a [3/7], the other one doesn't
<ochosi> the one where it says [3/7] works, the other one doesn't
<ochosi> so they must've changed something in the first-child - last-child matching
<knome> yeah...
<ochosi> plus, those buttons dont actually have the .linked class set
<knome> hooray
<Unit193> bluesabre: Might be a bit late now, but what about dropping build-essential off the ISO?  As a reference point, Kubuntu doesn't seem to have it.
<ochosi> so i was probably looking in the wrong place
<knome> Unit193, +1 for that, especially if it removes a meaningful amount of stuff
<knome> should the buttons have the linked class set by gtk or the app?
<ochosi> my guess is that this is the relevant part of adwaita: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gtk/theme/Adwaita/_common.scss?h=3.18.6#n692
<ochosi> nope, i guess they don't need to
<ochosi> being in an .inline-toolbar should suffice
<knome> ok
<knome> mmh
<knome> i'm on my laptop now, so no can't really investigate this effectively
<knome> i'm investigating the possibility to move to the desktop
<knome> if you know what i mean...
<ochosi> this is likely the compiled version of the scss: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gtk/theme/Adwaita/gtk-contained.css#n1049
<knome> but didn't you say adwaita didn't work either?
<ochosi> or to be more exact, this is the gtk3 version we need: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gtk/theme/Adwaita/gtk-contained.css?h=3.18.6#n1031
<ochosi> nono, adwaita works
<ochosi> only ambiance/radiance don't
<ochosi> which are ubuntu's default themes
<knome> ah
<ochosi> anyhow, i have no idea how to correctly match one of those damn buttons
<ochosi> i feel i can add any class i want
<knome> lol
<ochosi> seems it's either overridden by something else in the theme (could well be >4000 lines of css) or a weird mismatch
<knome> does gtk support !important?
<knome> just wondering..
<knome> besides you could just add a very specific pattern to make sure it's not overriding that's happening
<knome> or some other style definition, like red color :P
<knome> to make sure the pattern is matching the button to begin with
<ochosi> anyway, you got me playing with it, happy now..? :(
<knome> oh yes
<knome> play a bit more
<knome> you touch my tra-la-la
<ochosi> oh great :(
<ochosi> bluesabre: so, this is actually *your* fault
<ochosi> bluesabre: gotta set the "flat" class on the linked buttons and i guess then we're golden
<knome> \o/
<knome> at least we now know the fix...
<knome> bbiab
<ochosi> or not :)
<ochosi> who knows ;)
<ochosi> i mean after all it works in adwaita as i
<ochosi> s
<ochosi> at least i've narrowed it down a bit: the only button i get wrong now is the pen-ultimate
<ochosi> that one for some reason is matched to "first-child"
<ochosi> weird, after some reason after clicking "inspect" the button looks ok: http://i.imgur.com/e93ekcB.png
<ochosi> (apart from the white border)
<knome> nice work
<knome> does those two buttons have some special styles in addition?
<ochosi> bluesabre: so after letting the inspector redraw those buttons, they actually look ok, so i'd say it's a problem with the way the app is rendered (maybe something changed there in gtk3.18 and you need to redraw the widgets at some point or listen to some new signal...) http://i.imgur.com/A3QgoS4.png
<ochosi> knome: nope, that would've been *far* too easy
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> it's something like what i outlined above
<ochosi> so partly theming issue, partly an issue with the apps
<knome> mhm
<ochosi> i only found those inline toolbars in parole and menulibre
<knome> should get the whip ready for bluesabre so he fixes the buttons ASAP
<ochosi> i still have *zero* clue why this works in adwaita though
<knome> lol, failure
 * knome shrugs
<knome> does it matter?
<knome> :P
<ochosi> well, to some extent it does i guess
<knome> i know
<knome> but for now...
<ochosi> bluesabre could say "why should i fix this? or 'what'? it works in adwaita..."
<ochosi> well yeah, it's a small victory
<ochosi> albeit *small* ;)
<knome> then he would be up for a few more whips
<knome> so i'm pretty certain he doesn't say that
<knome> besides, he is the xubuntu technical lead, xubuntu must be his passion and he would do anything to fix a bug in xubuntu... right?
<slickymaster> evening all
<slickymaster> dkessel, where do you see gmb in the -docs
<slickymaster> ?
<slickymaster> just went through rev. 531 and there are no references to it?
<flocculant> evening slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hey flocculant 
<slickymaster> knome, where again is your slideshow branch?
<Unit193> slickymaster: Perhaps he is looking at the non-English bits?
<flocculant> slickymaster: here I believe lp:~xubuntu-doc/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1604
<flocculant> slickymaster: and looks like gmb in the translations 
<flocculant> indeed Unit193 :)
<dkessel> slickymaster: Launchpad says to translate Â user-docs/C/media-apps.xml:22(para)
<dkessel> And more on that page
<knome> slickymaster, flocculant is correct
<knome> it's under ~xubuntu-doc for the reason that other people could push to it as well..
<slickymaster> dkessel -> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/xenial/view/head:/user-docs/C/media-apps.xml
<slickymaster> no reference to gmb
<slickymaster> thanks flocculant and knome 
<knome> slickymaster, have you updated the translation templates?
<slickymaster> yes
<slickymaster> when I pushed
<knome> okay
<knome> just making sure, becuase that would be the obvious issue...
<dkessel> I see that it _should_ not be there ;)
<slickymaster> flocculant, I saw you and bluesabre add a few thoughts to the slideshow pad
<knome> dkessel, do you have the latest reveision for sure?
<slickymaster> knome, I assume you also saw it
<slickymaster> ^^
<knome> yes
<flocculant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15323676/ 
<slickymaster> does your branch reflect the reorder of the slides they proposed?
<knome> no
<slickymaster> ok flocculant. dkessel
<slickymaster> going to push a new rev updating the translation updates
<dkessel> :+1
<flocculant> doesn't mean much to me but I'll +1 it anyway :p
<slickymaster> hmmm the script isn't actually doing nothing :P
<knome> slickymaster, :P
<slickymaster> an you test it please, knome?
<knome> test what?
<slickymaster> the get-pot.sh script
<Unit193> slickymaster: Nono!  make pot!
<slickymaster> what Unit193?!
<knome> slickymaster, run 'make pot'
<slickymaster> done, anything else?
<knome> slickymaster, see if it did anything... :P
<slickymaster> scripts/get-pot.sh user-docs contributor-docs
<slickymaster> Creating template for user-docs ...
<slickymaster> Creating template for contributor-docs ...
<knome> do you think you could now try pushing the changes :P
<slickymaster> so, that's just it
<knome> yes
<slickymaster> thanks
<ochosi> ok, pushed it
<knome> puuush, puuush
<ochosi> bluesabre: i *hope* my work is done here. maybe you can take it from here
<knome> ochosi, assign a work item for him
<ochosi> yeah, wait, there was a bugreport
<knome> :)
<ochosi> ok, i linked it to the -bugs blueprint: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1552518
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1552518 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Linked toolbar buttons do not draw correctly in Greybird" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> that should be sufficient
<knome> :)
<ochosi> alright, that was the last known bug in greybird for gtk3.18 aka xenial
<knome> unless they break something again!
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> always a possibility
<ochosi> i mean seriously, it's not even UI freeze yet ;)
<Unit193> Turns out they opt to patch gtk3 rather than fix the themes. :D
<ochosi> btw, i'm considering to postpone the factoring out of the distro specific parts of elementary-xfce
<ochosi> unless someone else wants to do it
<ochosi> it's mostly a packaging job anyway
<ochosi> and not really that important
<ochosi> i'd rather get the pidgin theme working
<knome> ochosi, i could have a look at that.
<ochosi> so anyway, i'm postponing it for now, everybody feel free to pick it up and reassign it
<Unit193> I already split the packages, but didn't touch the icons.
<ochosi> yeah, i mean we're currently updating the icons from git with debian/control iirc
<ochosi> so we could theoretically branch in git and add some distro-specific icons there (or in an addon repo) and then check those out on top of elementary-xfce
<Unit193> Proof of concept or something, though doubt it's what you're talking about: dget https://unit193.net/source/elementary-xfce-themes_16.04.dsc
<ochosi> but it seems like quite a bit of trouble for ~20icons max
<ochosi> oh yeah, that isn't
<ochosi> what you have there is far more interesting than what i was talking about
<ochosi> but then again, hopefully LO will ship the elementary theme itself
<Unit193> Still would have elementary-xfce-icon-theme and the pidgin theme, I'd think.
<ochosi> oh yeah, true that
<ochosi> if we ever manage to install a theme in a non-destructive way
<ochosi> alrighty, time for me to get some sleep
<ochosi> night everyone!
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<ochosi> knome: and thanks for "motivating" me ;)
<knome> no problem! ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: and before i *really* go to sleep: what's up with gnome-software not respecting icon-themes? i don't suppose there's anything we can do about this anyhow...
<knome> slickymaster, besides.. you should have page deletion permissions for all pages
<knome> slickymaster, just save the page empty and it's deleted
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
<slickymaster> did that knome 
<knome> slickymaster, and?
<slickymaster> to no avail, but 
<bluesabre> ochosi: gnome-software probably can't know what icon to use for an app
<knome> slickymaster, you are in @team, and @team has delete rights to all pages
<slickymaster> at some point I was completely clueless if I was online or not
<knome> :D
<slickymaster> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey slickymaster
<bluesabre> ochosi: libreoffice is actually shipping the theme now
<pleia2> woo
<bluesabre> !info libreoffice-style-elementary xenial
<ubottu> libreoffice-style-elementary (source: libreoffice): office productivity suite -- Elementary symbol style. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:5.1.0-0ubuntu1 (xenial), package size 1369 kB, installed size 2194 kB
<bluesabre> 1:5.1.0-0ubuntu1 is the magic sauce
<bluesabre> as for getting it default, it seems like it might also happen
<bluesabre> so yay there
<slickymaster> quick question, are going with gnome-software or not?
<slickymaster> bluesabre ^^
<bluesabre> slickymaster: yes, believe so
<slickymaster> ok
<bluesabre> flocculant: you around?
<slickymaster> think is already in the valley of dremas bluesabre 
<slickymaster> dreams also
<bluesabre> figured
<bluesabre> haven't seen a "please god no, no gnome-software", so let's assume that we're going for it
<bluesabre> its on the iso already, so I think its also safe for me to mark that task complete
<pleia2> oh, I forgot to continue our user text vote to the list, knome - good for me to keep voting open until friday?
<knome> pleia2, yup, usually one week from the vote beginning
<pleia2> k
<slickymaster> knome, changed the Remove USC references in the docs-blueprint from blocked to inprogress and assigned to me
<knome> slickymaster, good good
<slickymaster> bad bad
<knome> :P
<knome> our burndown looks okayish even
<slickymaster> I'm afraid I won't be able to translate the contributor-docs in time, though 
<knome> uh oh! :P
<knome> but that's not critical
<slickymaster> yeah, but I'd like it
<slickymaster> it's a LTS
<knome> but contributions mostly happen before LTS :P
<slickymaster> yeah, but even so
<knome> then i guess that's your headache ;)
<slickymaster> anyway do you think you'll have the slideshow graphical aspect done with soon?
<knome> i will have time tomorrow to work on it
<knome> but that obviously doesn't fix the issues with content
<knome> if there is something specific on the artwork side that you think blocks fixing the content, let me know and i'll tackle that first
<slickymaster> do you already have any ideas for the first slide
<slickymaster> ?
<knome> no, and if i don't get any ideas, i'll just resort redrawing the same idea with a new look
<slickymaster> what about xfce icon fading into ubuntu icon resulting a xubuntu icon
<slickymaster> like a merge between the first two
<knome> i'm still not convinced on that
<slickymaster> bah
<slickymaster> what do you don
<knome> i'm not don
<slickymaster> 't like in that?
<slickymaster> my irrsi is lagging
<knome> i think it's a bit too much and meh ;)
<slickymaster> lol, two arguments :P
<slickymaster> knome, last offer
<knome> ahahah
<slickymaster> one icon only
<Unit193> bluesabre: So?  On the pingypingy?
<knome> offer to create a demo for it... then i'll look at it :P
<slickymaster> but continuously changing between the three, sort of a loop
<knome> are we trying to cause epileptic seizures for people?
<knome> besides, the xfce logo isn't a circle, so i'd imagine that'd look weird
<slickymaster> http://qz.com/631500/what-its-really-like-to-have-dyslexia/
<slickymaster> we could go for something like that 
 * slickymaster hides
<knome> yeah, that would totally work...
<slickymaster> that's made in javascript btw
<pleia2> wxl: tsk, voluntelling
<wxl> huh what did i do? XD
<pleia2> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-08
<bluesabre> Unit193: huh?
<bluesabre> dinner time, bbabl
<Unit193> bluesabre: Dropping b-e from seed.
<Unit193> [15:32:02] < Unit193> bluesabre: Might be a bit late now, but what about dropping build-essential off the ISO?  As a reference point, Kubuntu  doesn't seem to have it.
<bluesabre> Unit193: not opposed to the idea
<bluesabre> and really no reason to keep it on there onless you're compiling drivers and whatnot
<bluesabre> in which case you'd still need kernel headers
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'll take a look at it tomorrow, so tired
<ochosi> bluesabre: not sure i get it - what's hard about detecting the icon theme that's in use systemwide?
<ochosi> bluesabre: plus, if it really can't do that, we'd have to put all our icons into the hicolor icon theme (which seems to be what it's using atm)
<bluesabre> ochosi: looking in /var/lib/apt/lists/us.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_xenial_main_dep11_Components-amd64.yml.gz it seems all icons use a png resource instead of icon names for gnome-software
<bluesabre> Icon:
<bluesabre>   cached: file-roller_file-roller.png
<bluesabre> ochosi: but you could report a bug at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software and maybe robert will patch it in :)
<flocculant> hi ochosi bluesabre :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: re g-s > no issue from me 
<bluesabre> flocculant: good deal
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: thanks for replying to dev mail :)
<flocculant> you took the words right out of my mouth ... 
<flocculant> bluesabre: re upgrades - that's moving on now - that lovely davmor2 chap is driving people there :)
<davmor2> flocculant: it's what I do :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: oh great,  good to hear
<bluesabre> davmor2: you rock
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, wanted to try and get him before anyone else.. :-)
<flocculant> davmor2 does indeed rock
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: yea :p
<akxwi-dave> my machines are sat patiently waiting for the upgrade tests..  :-)
<flocculant> I think that by the time we get to the 21st March then the release team will be really twitchy if all the upgrade tests including Ubuntu get critically failed 
<bluesabre> Unit193: would that be in debian-cd/tasks/forcd1 ?
<bluesabre> ochosi: the icons it is using are in /var/lib/app-info/icons/
<bluesabre> micahg: can you take another look at the packageset? there's no more reason for shimmer-themes to be in the kubuntu packageset, but it certainly seems to be stuck there now
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh, meh
<ochosi> bluesabre: so what can i/we do about that then?
<bluesabre> ochosi: nothing outside of filing a bug I'd imagine
<knome> i haven't seen micahg active in weeks, should we ask somebody else?
<bluesabre> knome: I had Laney re-run the script last week and it didn't fix it, but I'll probably send another mail to the DMB list
<knome> yeah
<bluesabre> I'll try to get that out this morning
<bluesabre> or start trolling them for per-package access on a need basis
<bluesabre> or work on obtaining motu
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> hats++
<knome> i vote for all of them
<bluesabre> it'd be nice to get more devs, I wouldn't mind stepping back a bit and taking more of a mentor/code-review role
<knome> bluesabre, there's one for you ^ :P
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre, ping-a-long
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: what's up?
<slickymasterWork> I'm assuming you're familiar with gnome software UI, right?
<bluesabre> hey slickymasterWork
<bluesabre> a bit
<slickymasterWork> do you know how they name the icon in the top left of the UI that provides you access to the software & updates UI
<slickymasterWork> ?
<flocculant> bluesabre: don't say flocculant is ... 
<slickymasterWork> flocculant, the same goes for you :P
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: probably "gnome-software"
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: it's gnome
<flocculant> so obviously 'icon in the top left' :p
<slickymasterWork> thing is it doesn't have any labels, or tooltips
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: why not just call it the menu bitton ...
<slickymasterWork> that doesn't serve to go in -docs
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: that's the app menu
<slickymasterWork> hmm, ok, app menu works for me
<slickymasterWork> thanks, both
<bluesabre> in gtk3, applications that would show a menu in the gnome-shell panel show it there in other DEs
<flocculant> not sure I helped :D
<bluesabre> (when not patched out in Ubuntu)
<slickymasterWork> GS isn't showing any menu, just the button bluesabre 
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: pretty sure you'd see the same in menulibre or gnome-calculator
 * bluesabre shrugs
<slickymasterWork> calculator doesn't either
<bluesabre> well, in the future if you see that, that's what it is :D
<flocculant> I'd say that app menu is probably as useful as anything else 
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: what do you mean it doesn't show a menu? 
<bluesabre> usually it is for application-wide functionality, whereas menus with a cog to the right of the toolbar would be window/instance-specific
<bluesabre> or so it is specced
<bluesabre> :D
<qwebirc916920> not tradional File-Edit-View-Etc menu
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: yeah, that would be a menubar, which gnome is pushing away with a really big sharp stick
<bluesabre> in that case, File, Edit, View, Etc are all menus
<slickymasterWork> exactly
<bluesabre> there's pros and cons for menubars... pro: all functionality available, con: developers are often horrible at determining what a good context/menu name is so you have to look through the whole menu to find what you want anyway
<bluesabre> File, Edit, View - all standard, but usually used incorrectly :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: hmright, i see. i thought you said i should draw some icons :p
<bluesabre> ochosi: only if you want to draw an icon for gnome-software
<bluesabre> or symlink existing, etc
<ochosi> hmm, for now i'm not sure
<ochosi> i mean i can
<bluesabre> it's fine either way, really :)
<ochosi> just not sure it's really needed
<ochosi> yup :)
<ochosi> btw, did you take a peek at the greybird issue?
<ochosi> it's really odd, i'm starting to suspect it's a bug in the toolkit
<bluesabre> ochosi: not had a chance to look yet
<ochosi> ok, no worries
<ochosi> lemme know when you do
<bluesabre> ochosi: should get a chance tonight, will let you know
<ochosi> cool
<knome> ochosi, you know what we should do?
<knome> ochosi, draw a xenial...
<flocculant> how can you draw an adjective :(
<knome> oh
<knome> xerus
 * knome facepalms
<knome> i'll even draw you a rounded circle
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<sorine1|o> I'm glad to see new people on the user list giving their opinions
<knome> sorine1|o, on what exactly?
<knome> do you mean the *developer* list?
<sorine1|o> knome, Pontus Falk, also Majay Jozef giving his opinion
<sorine1|o> yes
<flocculant> knome: nice response :)
<knome> thanks
<ochosi> knome: yeah, we should do that
<ochosi> maybe sometime in the next few days/evenings/nights
<knome> do you have ideas for the tail?
<knome> i've figured out the body i think
<knome> ochosi, ui freeze is thursday fwiw
<ochosi> knome: yeah, maybe late late tonight
<knome> sigh ;)
<knome> flocculant, PING
<micahg> knome: sorry, last time I tried, I had a python error
<micahg> and I have not had time to dig into it
<pavlushka>  Hi, I am a general Ubuntu user, I wanna volunteer testing Xubuntu
<pavlushka> knome, hi
<knome> pavlushka, hello
<knome> pavlushka, have you read this page already? http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa
<knome> pavlushka, it gives you an overview of the testing we are doing
<pavlushka> knome, So, tell me, I've noticed it in the Ubuntu community page.
<pavlushka> knome, for which release, 14.04 or 15.10?
<knome> pavlushka, we are testing 16.04 currently
<knome> pavlushka, this page has the *general* information, not the specifics
<knome> pavlushka, i just want to make sure you understand the general stuff first before i dig much deeper
<pavlushka> knome, I've read the http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-team.html#qa-team-basics
<knome> pavlushka, okay
<pavlushka> knome, try me
<knome> pavlushka, so is there something specific you are interested in?
<knome> iso testing? package testing?
<pavlushka> I can help you with OS stability testing & bug reporting.
<pavlushka> knome, Ya, sure
<knome> flocculant, are you around?
<knome> pavlushka, so as you know, the ISO testing goes on at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<knome> do you have any specific questions about the trackers?
<pavlushka> knome, sorry?
<knome> pavlushka, do you have any questions?
<pavlushka> knome, the trackers?
<knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ is the QA ISO testing tracker
<pavlushka> knome, its loading slow, so I am waiting.
<knome> okay, let me know when you've got it loaded
<pavlushka> knome, okey dokey
<knome> pavlushka, you can find information on using the trackers here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/QATracker (linked from the front page on the tracker if you ever need to revisit)
<knome> have you looked at that?
<flocculant> knome: what? 
<knome> flocculant, a new tester excited to get going
<knome> flocculant, you're probably better at explaining stuff he needs to know than me while i'm drawing a rounded circle
<flocculant> \o/ 
<flocculant> ha 
<pavlushka> knome, what I got is, if I am connected to net while booting ISO and installation and everything after that, the bug will be auto reported, I just have to say yes.
<flocculant> pavlushka: hi there :)
<knome> pavlushka, that's one part of it, but we have our own processes for testing stuff... our qa (quality assurance) lead flocculant can tell you more about the current testing in progress
<flocculant> pavlushka: you're better checking out http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-testing.html and http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-bugs.html
<flocculant> than the first one - that's more what the QA Team does before testing gets going properly
<flocculant> pavlushka: I'm kind of right in the middle of something in r/l atm
<flocculant> but basically - boot the image - check that works, if you can do so - install it (virtual machine is sufficient) check that works
<flocculant> knome: I think I will re-order those pages and rename that basics one - it's really a QA Team page not for testers
<pavlushka> flocculant, Ya I can do that and I'll be connected to the net while doing it.
<knome> flocculant, mhm
<flocculant> pavlushka: cool - when you get as far as looking at the tracker (if you're not sure) and looking at bugs  I should be here by then
<knome> ^ the tracker pretty much tells you what you need to do
<pavlushka> Ya, i think so.
<akxwi-dave> pavlushka, Heres another little article that my be useful..  http://princessleia.com/journal/2016/03/xubuntu-16-04-iso-testing-tips/
<pavlushka> akxwi-dave, thanks.
<flocculant> pavlushka: I'm back now if you need me
<pavlushka> flexiondotorg, sorry, gotta go, I'll knock you if I need. see ya
 * flexiondotorg thinks pavlushka means flocculant ;-)
 * flocculant does too :)
<slickymasterWork> flocculant, will review https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/xubuntu-docs/qachange/+merge/288421 after dinner
<Unit193> bluesabre: lp:~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.xenial
<MagicSponge> Sup guys.
<ochosi> micahg: hey, so about that shimmer-themes packageset issue, do you think you'll get a chance to check that one out soonish?
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hullo bluesabre 
<ochosi> oh hey
<bluesabre> hey knome, ochosi
<bluesabre> and wowza, ochosi twice in a single day
<bluesabre> what is this
<knome> heresy
<ochosi> bluesabre: your lucky day?
<bluesabre> must be
<ochosi> bluesabre: so there's really no bug against gnome-software to respect icon-themes?
<bluesabre> ochosi: not that I saw
<ochosi> i mean it does somehow gather the icons
<bluesabre> i think that's with appstream
<ochosi> or not?
<bluesabre> ochosi: I don't know how it works, just what files its using :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: not defined explicitly in there, what's pulling it... bcmwl-kernel-source?
<ochosi> bluesabre: so, since i haven't been around so much (sorry for that, but the little one needs a lot of attention lately), what's new?
<bluesabre> ochosi: not a whole lot right now, if you know about the icon theme and gnome-software, you're pretty much up to date
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> font
<bluesabre> not icon theme
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> krytarik: Oh right, we seed gcc and make but mugshot is what pulls in all the crap.
<bluesabre> trying to do some fixes this week
<bluesabre> Unit193: mugshot does?
<knome> ahahahaha, again bluesabre's fault
<knome> :X
<Unit193> I forgot about that, yeah.
<Unit193> pkg-config, dpkg-dev, build-e, etc, etc.
<knome> bluesabre is da bomb
<bluesabre> oh wow
<knome> that breaks your distro
<knome> ;)=
<bluesabre> need to take a look at that then
<bluesabre> doesn't seem like it should http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/mugshot
<Unit193> mugshot â gstreamer1.0-tools â pkg-config â dpkg-dev â gcc/make/build-essential/fakeroot/
<Unit193> Gotta go down the rabbit hole.
<bluesabre> that's lame
<bluesabre> makes me wonder if the packaging is bad for gstreamer1.0-tools then
<bluesabre> why in the world would it depend on pkg-config
<knome> haha
<knome> -tools?
<bluesabre> I might see if I can fix that dep this week
<ochosi> yeah, and don't forget the theming bug ;)
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'll get a package for that up tonight to hopefully be sponsored
<ochosi> better test it first
<ochosi> but it should be a definite improvement
<bluesabre> I'll check it out
<ochosi> ty
<bluesabre> also got a few numix commits since then
<bluesabre> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Numix/commits/master
<bluesabre> last upload jan 17
<bluesabre> mugshot might not even need that dep
<Unit193> Last time you said it was needed for something or other, perhaps video.
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, numix needs testing again
<ochosi> i havent talked to stya in a while, but he handed the project over to someone
<ochosi> he's mostly merging patches and cleaning out invalid bugrepoprts, but it's better than nothing
<bluesabre> Unit193: well, good news is that clutter video is broken!
<bluesabre> ochosi: alrighty, will be sure to give it some reasonable testing or just leave it out of the next upload
<ochosi> sounds like a plan
<bluesabre> oh nice
<bluesabre> some recent update seems to have broken my camera
<ochosi> things seem to get better for you all the time
<bluesabre> indeed
<Unit193> LTS baby!
<bluesabre> getting harder to develop these days when nothing works
<ochosi> challenge accepted?
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> just means I need some time to discover new alternatives
<ochosi> like something stable? maybe arch linux?
<bluesabre> haha
<knome> i recommend windows XP, it will not get stupid udpates that break the system any more!
<ochosi> +1
<bluesabre> figured we'd be safe with xfce
<bluesabre> but then glib changes and breaks everything
<bluesabre> moved to clutter since it was actively maintained, not realizing that meant guaranteed api breakages once per year
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> qt looks more lovely by the day
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> :(
<ochosi> bluesabre: only because you don't experience the breakage there first hand
<bluesabre> ochosi: you're probably right
<ochosi> btw, getting gnome-software into xubuntu by default is a great opportunity for some dog fooding and then adding appdata to more xfce components
<ochosi> hmm, how is the wallpaper community contest coming along btw?
<ochosi> i read some messages about the site for it falling in place
<ochosi> but it's a bit late in the cycle already for a contest, no?
<knome> nah
<knome> it's not subject to UI freeze
<bluesabre> UI freeze basically only applies to defaults
<knome> and we can likely start the competition beginning of next week
<knome> there are some issues reported on the site i need to investigate, but likely nothing serious
<ochosi> can i look at the site yet?
<bluesabre> http://contest.xubuntu.org/
<knome> ochosi, you should also be able to log in and send your submissions as well as vote and see vote results
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> submitting already works?
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> voting too
<ochosi> oh, several already there
<ochosi> i submitted one too now
<bluesabre> ochosi: fancy
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-09
<ochosi> is there a file-size limit?
<ochosi> i tried a 2.2mb file and that failed
<ochosi> also jpg
<ochosi> previous one that worked was 1.4mb
<ochosi> says "filetype not allowed"
<ochosi> that is weird though
<bluesabre> knome's got some limits on there, at least only jpg/png/svg
<ochosi> yeah, but it's jpg
<ochosi> so that shouldn't be the problem
<ochosi> previous upload was even jpeg
<knome> i think you might have capped the file upload size limit
<bluesabre> gotta run now, dinner, bbabl
 * knome checks
<ochosi> bluesabre: bon appetit
<ochosi> meh, only 2mb? in 2016?
 * knome points to pleia2 
<ochosi> bluesabre: pushed another commit to greybird, should help a bit with gnome-software
<knome> jokes aside, i'll fix it today or tomorrow
<ochosi> ok, thanks
<ochosi> i'll have to resubmit then i guess :/
<knome> i'll wipe all of this anyway
<knome> so you will have to resubmit in any case
<ochosi> seriously?
<knome> yeah.
<ochosi> :'(
<knome> this is the testing site
<ochosi> alright, time to cry myself to sleep
<knome> and the testing phase
 * knome gives ochosi a teddy bear to cuddle wth
<pleia2> imma submit a picture of my cat
<knome> *with
<ochosi> okeydokey
<ochosi> still, sleepy-timme
<ochosi> night everyone!
<knome> sleep tight
<pleia2> night ochosi 
<knome> pleia2, feel free to ;)
<knome> we might even approve it
<ochosi> pleia2: already looking forward to that ;)
<pleia2> lol
<ochosi> xubuntu = ubuntu + cats
<ochosi> or wait, was that cubuntu?
<pleia2> no, it's xubuntu
<pleia2> cats can't spell
<ochosi> :]
<knome> no, it's kokijesfuij
<knome> cats can't spell
<micahg> ochosi: I lose my access in about 24 hours
<Unit193> Myth is switching to Greybird.
<Unit193> flocculant: Getting any issues with the indicator plugin or indicator-application?
<flocculant> Unit193: not that I'm aware of
<Unit193> Eh, OK.
<flocculant> what sort of issues ? 
<Unit193> Only saw it on the netbook, but was using 100% CPU.  Not sure how long that'd been going on.  Tried killing them, restarting the panel, etc.  Ended up switching to xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin and got rid of indicators.
<flocculant> definitely not anything like that going on here
<Unit193> Seems to have been xfce4-indicator-plugin that was the problem too.
<ochosi> Unit193: mythbuntu? hm, nice
<ochosi> but i guess the themes that support gtk2/3 and xfce are getting less and less
<flocculant> morning ochosi :)
<ochosi> morning flocculant :)
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu-dev/mythbuntu/mythbuntu-default-settings/revision/184 - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythbuntu-default-settings/1.13
 * flocculant read mythbuntu as fluxbuntu and wondered what was going on ...
<knome> silly flocculant 
<flocculant> indeed
<flocculant> did you forget?
<knome> no
<flocculant> :)
<knome> i was just repeating for truth
<flocculant> good man
<knome> anyway, try to get some horizontal time in
<knome> bbl
<knome> flocculant, re: the slideshow order.. i think i'm just going to try to fix the issue with not all slides being visible (at least first) by making the slideshow faster
<knome> the timeout is 50000, you said you could get to the third slide
<knome> what about trying something like 25000?
<flocculant> oh right 
<flocculant> I was trying to work out what you were on about :)
<knome> heh :)
<knome> if you want, you can actually feel the different options yourself by editing the index.html in the slideshow (should be line 15, with "timeout"
<flocculant> knome: I can edit the livesession one? or grab the branch and start that at the same time with the new time? 
<flocculant> cos it's probably better for me to fiddle here and give you a figure
<knome> the livesession one is harder... so yeah, you'd likely need to get the branch and try it
<flocculant> ok
<knome> but basically, it's milliseconds
<flocculant> yep
<knome> the speed attribute changes how fast the slide is changed too
<knome> 500 seems to be the global default, don't know why we have 600
<knome> so likely making that 500
<flocculant> ok
<knome> or even less
<knome> though that clearly doesn't make a huge difference
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I'll go with 25000/500 first 
<flocculant> with a bit of luck that'll work :D
<knome> :)
<knome> i think even 20000 is easily sensible regarding the amount of time to read the slides
<knome> they aren't long ones
<flocculant> might manage later today - got to finish painting this room first - got the horrid bit to do - all the books/music/tech to dismantle ...
<flocculant> ok - I'll try that then :)
<knome> sure.... no hurry, the ui freeze is only tomorrow
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> meh
<knome> (tbh i don't think it's a huge thing if we miss that, paperwork is easy and there will be no objections from the release team whatsoever)
<flocculant> right - better to keep those requests for something bigger perhaps :p
 * knome shrugs
<knome> maybe
<flocculant> :)
<knome> if you pull the branch now (or the changes), you'll see some other changes as well
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> nice :)
<flocculant> knome: are we going to be able to add contrib before the freeze then? 
<knome> contrib?
<flocculant> we just keeping the current one?
<knome> i'm about to change it
<knome> don't know how yet, but i'll get it done today
<flocculant> okey doke
<knome> if you have ideas..
<flocculant> I still think we should swap it with Help & Support
<knome> i'm still meh about that for the reasons i mentioned earler
<knome> +i
<knome> another way to look it is also: what does the user need?
<knome> contributing isn't as important to them as support
<flocculant> the only reason you gave for anything was the bubbles :)
<flocculant> this doesn't affect that
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> what the user needs is Xubuntu 
<flocculant> and without contribution - there won't be one ;)
<knome> hahah
<flocculant> so I think I won that particular argument :D
<flocculant> s/argument/discussion 
<knome> well
<knome> :D
<knome> there's something in the order you are proposing that messes my brain up
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> if we're trying to win discussions, then what about this:
<knome> help and support is before contrib in the website menu
<knome> and in the docs startpage
<flocculant> that always annoys me too 
<flocculant> :p
<knome> i'm sure you put butter in the bottom of the bread too ;)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> for the contribute slide ... something along the lines of "Like what you see? Like what you use? Why not join in - you don't have to be able to code - there are many different parts we need help with"
<knome> yeah, sounds good
<knome> would you see that as replacing the current text?
<flocculant> or something - not really awake and mostly thinking about dealing with this horrid job ... 
<flocculant> yea 
<knome> yep
<knome> the window repairer is here too, smells like silicone
<knome> or some other similar stuff
<knome> not the most pleasant odour to work in
<flocculant> I'll be about later today - we could bash it out if you are
<knome> i'm off after 11am or so
<flocculant> oh that nasty vinegary smell
<knome> UTC, that is
<flocculant> knome: I meant later later 
<knome> right... then it would have to be something like 8pmish UTC
<flocculant> I'll have Natural Calico arms for most of the day again :D
<flocculant> knome: yep - that's fine with me :)
<knome> ok, let's try to get one more sprint done then
<knome> i'll try to get the artwork side done by then
<flocculant> I'll try and get the speed thing sorted prior to then too so we can do it all in one go 
<knome> yeah
<knome> i wonder if slickymaster can join us
<flocculant> he's often about at that sort of time - pre-dinner etc
<knome> yeah, and if we catch him before the dinner, he also might be able to think because not too much food in belly
<knome> :P
<flocculant> :D
<knome> bluesabre, pushing the wallpaper into a branch next, then creating an MP so you can check the technicalities, merge and upload the package :)
<bluesabre> knome: great
<knome> aaand merge proposed
<bluesabre> knome: probably won't get to that upload until tonight, trying to get shimmer ready this morning and there are a few changes that need to be made to that packaging to drop out the lo theme
<knome> i'm not in a hurry, just wanted to get that done
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> was there something else in xubuntu-artwork?
<knome> not from me i think
<knome> i updated the link, dropped the new wallpaper and also updated plymouth
<bluesabre> knome: I figured it out
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> it was the changes to the gtksourceview themes
<bluesabre> which you had already pushed
<knome> yeah
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> time to run, bbabl
<knome> flocculant also said they were ok, so no need to revisit for now
<knome> hf
<bluesabre> good
<ochosi> knome: mm yummy, new wallpaper :)
<knome> ochosi, also new stuff in the slideshow branch
<ochosi> kewl, will look at that tonight
<bluesabre> back
<bluesabre> morning ochosi
<bluesabre> ochosi: greybird fixes look good
<bluesabre> alrighty, so there's that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1555046
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1555046 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Please upload shimmer-themes-2.1.1-0ubuntu1 to xenial" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> Unit193: gave you credit for the above with your 2 commits, https://code.launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/xubuntu-artwork/shimmer-themes-debian
<knome> is the credit on a mastercard or a visa?
<bluesabre> knome: rolling with the puns early today
<knome> :)
<knome> i had an early morning... too early
<knome> did we decide on numix already?
<bluesabre> knome: lots of current activity, so not something I'm comfortable with pushing yet
<bluesabre> it's non-default, so we can do it later
<knome> mhm
 * knome is going through the work items
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> which numix decision?
<bluesabre> keep/discard?
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> it seems to work
<bluesabre> and seems to be maintained again
<knome> so it's done and we keep?
<knome> ok
<bluesabre> so I think we're keeping
<knome> i'll go mark the item done then
<bluesabre> good good
<knome> ugh, the image size limit
<knome> have we decided on one?
<knome> should we just go for 1.5 because it's nice looking?
<knome> an 8cm single-sided DVD is 1.46GB
<knome> so let's go for that
<knome> (seriously)
<ochosi> yeah, why not
<ochosi> 1GB is not very realistic with LO included
<knome> i already requested that on -release
<knome> today seems to be the "pick more work items" day
<ochosi> bluesabre: really good to hear, so this one is fixed..? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1552518
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1552518 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Linked toolbar buttons do not draw correctly in Greybird" [Undecided,New]
<knome> "Add Create document templates for default apps"
<knome> ughhh
<knome> do we still plan to do that?
<ochosi> knome: well it should be fairly easy
<knome> that's kind of a low-hanging fruit
<ochosi> we just need an assignee
<knome> yep
<knome> maybe try sending an email on the -devel list to look for volunteers?
<knome> "xubuntu-artwork: Integrate pidgin theme"
<knome> what's this?
<knome> Update appstream metadata for GUI applications <- another low-hanging
<ochosi> that's the problematic task of integrating the pidgin icon theme i created with pidgin
<knome> right
<ochosi> background: pidgin seems to have only half-baked icon theme support
<knome> nice..
<ochosi> you practically have to overwrite the system icon theme
<knome> isn't highest priority, i guess?
<ochosi> which i wasn't aware of when designing the theme
<knome> well at least the theme is now ready...
<knome> i split that in two work items
<knome> ok, got to go next
<knome> i'll be back later, so feel free to ping me if there's anything subject to UIF that needs to be done
<knome> ttyl
<ochosi> knome: yeah, probably not highest prio. appstream data is also nice-to-have
<ochosi> k, ttyl
<bluesabre> ochosi: not quite so easy, I think the hope was to have translated templates
<bluesabre> knome: you got rid of the dragon scales from the wp :(
<ochosi> bluesabre: ah right :/ could you add that to the workitem-title though?
<ochosi> (sry, @work i can't access my lp account)
<bluesabre> ochosi: might be able to later, can't atm
<bluesabre> knome: almost finished putting the xubuntu-artwork package together, will finish tonight
<ochosi> bluesabre: so i presume you didn't check whether the greybird fix works for menulibre? :}
<jjfrv8> knome, flocculant, slickymaster, bluesabre, really nice work on the slideshow so far (I had to chuckle at the "meow") 
<jjfrv8> One suggestion: on the contribute slide, maybe break third sentence into two; i.e., "Why not join in? You don't have to be..."
<bluesabre> ochosi: I did check, it was fixed
<bluesabre> checked menulibre and parole
<bluesabre> and opened a bunch of other gtk3 to make sure nothing else broke
<bluesabre> and did it in a new guest session to make sure I had nothing else interfering :)
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: I think those first three are the ones that get the credit on that :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: \o/ thanks!
<tracker3> knome: you about - issues with the slideshow in clean install - http://paste.ubuntu.com/15335274/ 
<tracker3> not sure if it's something missing from live or something up with the thing itself - not just our slideshow fails - all do :)
<tracker3> I see you changed the speed stuff in branch too ;)
<flocculant> I assume it must be - still works ok here :p
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nice.
<knome> bluesabre, i told you so... :P
<flocculant> evening knome 
<knome> hello
<flocculant> tried running slideshow in live session - wouldn't work - so no idea how far through it I would get
<knome> yeah...
<knome> i read that
<knome> btw, our iso size is bumped up
<knome> so shouldn't get any more oversized warnings
<flocculant> oh right
<knome> (courtesy of cjwatson)
<flocculant> aah ok - so I'll look tomorrow then :)
<flocculant> I saw him say something
<knome> yep, thanks :)
<flocculant> maybe change wording on contribute to ... you don't have to be able to code. There are many different areas we need help with. 
<flocculant> or
<flocculant> ... you don't have to be able to code. There are many different areas you can contribute in.
<flocculant> and why snow on there? 
<knome> hahah
<knome> they are stars
<knome> but it was just the very first implementation
<flocculant> :)
<knome> i don't even know if we want that
<knome> but i thought it was better than nothing
<flocculant> heh
<knome> and it was a fun coding challenge.
<knome> well not challenge really
<flocculant> I guess so ;)
<knome> but was fun to implement
<knome> call me weird or sth...
<flocculant> lol
<knome> all ideas are still welcome
<flocculant> on that?
<flocculant> if nothing else slow it right down :p
<knome> well... on everything really, but especially that
<knome> lol
<knome> you don't like epilepsy seizures?
<flocculant> hah
<flocculant> nothing on desktop customising at all now?
<knome> no, that needs to be onde
<knome> ...
<knome> done
<knome> so i'm still suggesting we drop the bottom paragraphs from the desktop slide and replace them with some customization text
<knome> and see how that looks
<ochosi> evening all
<knome> hello ochosi 
<ochosi> prepping dinner and checking out slideshow etc
<flocculant> only one of the paras is not about customising 
<flocculant> ochosi: evening
<knome> flocculant, we can rewrite completely
<flocculant> mmm
<ochosi> wow, awesome update to the slideshow
<ochosi> the "help & support" could do with some effects / icons too
<ochosi> but other than that that's a really nice improvement
<knome> i don't know if all slides require some effects
<ochosi> yeah, but this one stands out a little
<flocculant> knome: I assume that we can change the speed etc later? so I can wait to check that with SSD when it lands rather than muck around now
<ochosi> s/effect/icon then
<knome> flocculant, i would imagine so :)
<knome> ochosi, popping out question marks?
<knome> the quickly fade out and add exclamation marks?
<knome> or is that too similar to the real time slide
<flocculant> let's not quickly do anything - if it's as quick as the snow ... 
<knome> :P
<ochosi> knome: no, i was actually thinking of something like that
<knome> :)
<knome> want to hack it in? :P
<flocculant> knome: lost the bit about making the time on the desktop release date on the pad?
<flocculant> or did bluesabre say it in channel ... 
<knome> prolly channel
<flocculant> liked that idea :)
<knome> btw, is the font change adapted to the applets?
<flocculant> no idea
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre: any idea?
<ochosi> sry, dinner time, bbiab
<knome> hurr hurr
<knome> :P
<xubuntu48w> hey guys so I am building a tool for my company, and the Ubuntu people will help me overcome some problems with the product.  I want to make a xubuntu derivative, so would the xubuntu developers be more qualified to help me?
<knome> considering people in the xubuntu team had time and motivation to do that (we are all volunteers) and that the issues were xubuntu-specific, maybe
<knome> if you can get paid ubuntu employees to help you, then that's always better
<knome> please also refer to our derivative guidlines at http://xubuntu.org/dev/derivatives/ (very similar to ubuntu's)
<flocculant> knome: so then - we going to go any further - not sure what I can do anyway
<bluesabre> knome, some applets. Others fallback on Sans
<flocculant> evening bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> Hey flocculant
<knome> flocculant, sorry, was improving the js side of things
<knome> just pushed a new revision with a simple effect for the support slide
<flocculant> at the front accidentally? 
<ochosi> hi again all
<flocculant> ochosi: hi :)
<knome> flocculant, i was testing, so kind of yes and no...
<flocculant> ack
<knome> (i always push them at the beginning because i don't want to tap through the slides)
<flocculant> looks ok though if we really need things on it
<flocculant> and yea - that makes sense :)
<knome> i think it's "okay"
<ochosi> help and support twice?
<knome> (if you both didn't know arrow keys left/right work...)
<knome> ochosi, le sigh
<ochosi> ah
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> i'll read more carefully in the future ;)
<flocculant> knome: yea I know the buttons 
<knome> surely...
<flocculant> so 
<flocculant> the desktop one - and customising desktop
<ochosi> ++ on the slideshow
<ochosi> nice work
<flocculant> imo - if we use words to do that in a couple of paragraphs - it'll be a bit constrained imo
<flocculant> forget the leading imo - I only have one opinion :p
<knome> flocculant, everything is constrained in the slideshow; we can't tell people how to use the ISO tracker there either
<flocculant> yea ofc
<knome> flocculant, so we can at least make sure they are given a great URL for the customizing stuff
<flocculant> but given that bluesabre wanted to " let's celebrate it" - saying hey you can customise the desktop - seems like a bit of damp squib :)
<Unit193> ochosi: I have no idea if studio or myth would want to use the icon theme, but if we split it out it'll give them the option.
<ochosi> Unit193: yup, totally agreed
<ochosi> if only we ever got a single contributor out of that ;)
<Unit193> I doubt we would, but it'd at least make it more useful to others, and get more testers for it.
<flocculant> knome: mmm ... so perhaps link to something with a bunch of different desktops from people you mean?
<knome> flocculant, actually i don't really know
<knome> maybe:
<knome> talk a bit about settings manager
<flocculant> meh
<knome> then link to the customize section on documentation 
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah i know. i guess with the few contributors i've managed to gather over the years i myself am to blame at least partly for that
<flocculant> knome: should have waited for the second bit lol
<flocculant> not sure tbh
 * knome shrugs
<knome> unfortunately i don't think we have that awesome location for the customization stuff
<flocculant> location? 
<Unit193> ochosi: I'm trying to keep in contact/keep an eye out for Myth, since they (losely) use Xfce too.
<knome> or in other words, that awesome place we want to link to doesn't exist
<ochosi> Unit193: good good!
<flocculant> knome: yea
<knome> so we'll have to go with some kind of compromise anyway
<knome> :|
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> one possibility is to link the new article series ALSO in a "customization" tag
<knome> and try to push stuff there
<knome> like, incrementally
<flocculant> not sure I like us linking to the docs - then 2 slides later linking to the docs
<knome> but then it'd just feel like we should push most of that stuff in the docs
<knome> i know that's a bummer
<knome> the best advice to give is "see yourself" really, but i know that's a bit lame
<flocculant> knome: don't agree - if we're going to do anything it should be a customise similar to the media manager articles
<flocculant> yea for sure - and yea a bit :p
<knome> so that's why i was mentioning settings manager
<knome> because most of the customization settings are there already
<flocculant> right and the best we'll get is "In Settings Manager are a bunch of tools to customise your desktop how you want" or somesuch
<knome> yeah
<flocculant> then no need for customise your panel
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> maybe we could namedrop some of the dialogs that are "important"
<flocculant> just thinking along those lines :)
<flocculant> so left panel > use this s manager
<flocculant> right panel > desktop for etc
<flocculant> that kind of thing? 
<knome> that's a bit light on the explanation side, but i think yes...?
<knome> :D
<flocculant> heh
<flocculant> so of the tools we have which do you think we should namedrop? Theme Config, Appearance, Window Manager(s) Panel, Desktop ?
<knome> i guess most stuff in the "Personal" category
<knome> there are many cool things there
<knome> the rest are quit bland and usual
<flocculant> that's a whole lot of things to get into 2 small paragraphs on the slideshow ... 
<knome> maybe we can mention that the sm is grouped by category and that the personal cateogory has all the cool things
<knome> :P
<knome> or sth like that, then we don't need to mention a lot of things and make translators check the right names
<flocculant> ok - give me a minute then
<knome> i will
<knome> 55secs left
<knome> 50
<knome> ...
<knome> :P
<flocculant> In the Settings Manager you will find many tools to change the default, most of the tools you can use to customise your desktop to your liking will be found at the top in the Personal section, to name a few Panel, Theme Configuration, Appearance and the two Window Manager tools will make the quickest and most visible changes to your desktop.
<knome> default settings?
<knome> and more sentences plz :D
<slickymaster> ev ening
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> eww slickymaster 
<knome> :|
<slickymaster> what?
<knome> slickymaster, well you said ening is "ev"
<slickymaster> just finished dinner
<flocculant> knome: if it's default anything it should be desktop
<flocculant> hi slickymaster :)
<knome> flocculant, yeah, that would work better imo
<knome> flocculant, can you drop that in the pad?
<slickymaster> didn't manage to branch the slideshow this morning knome 
<slickymaster> will do it now
<flocculant> knome: it is in the pad :D
 * knome bows
<knome> i noticed
<flocculant> :)
<knome> flocculant, "To name a few, .." ?
<knome> or maybe
 * knome moves to pad
 * flocculant notices
<knome> that good?
<knome> mm
<flocculant> changed it a bit :p
<knome> noticed too
<slickymaster> knome, can you past me the pad's url, please?
<knome> slickymaster, again?
<flocculant> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1604-slideshow
<knome> slickymaster, http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1604-slideshow
<slickymaster> always nagging
<knome> just because you asked *me* to paste it...
<slickymaster> lol
<knome> learn how to use bookmarks grandpa!
<knome> :P
<flocculant> knome: instead of saying 'try' jfdi 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> that's how I learnt most of the things I know - and how I learnt when to give up and take the 15 minutes to reinstall :D
<knome> haha ok, this is a bit long
<knome> what about dropping the other paragraph?
<flocculant> ok - so lose some of the current left hand panel
<flocculant> back to pad :D
<knome> also changed order of words
<knome> no, i meant lose the whole "on the desktop"
<knome> and then split the new text in half
<knome> this would work if we only had the english version of the slideshow, but we have to account for the translations not being exact same length
<knome> ok, i'll try that
<flocculant> fiddling with right para 
<knome> ideally, they would be as long
<slickymaster> one question you two, why the exclamations points in the Help slide?
<knome> slickymaster, maybe you didn't notice they were question marks before...
<knome> so the questions were answered...
<knome> ...right?
<slickymaster> no
<slickymaster> don't see how it's related
<slickymaster> you don't use exclamation points in that sense
<knome> do i not?
<knome> i do!
<flocculant> knome: pad para's are closer to similar length now
<slickymaster> they're used to grant assertiveness or surprise
<flocculant> slickymaster: it's abit like My question? Your answer. My response! 
<flocculant> I guess is the thinking
<knome> flocculant, this is good enough for me
<knome> let me pushy
<flocculant> okey doke 
 * flocculant grabs a beer
<slickymaster> tbh I don't see it, but I won't fight you
<knome> slickymaster, you don't see the question marks at all?
<knome> or you don't see how this would "work"?
<knome> if the latter, please let me know the better idea you had in mind :)
<knome> new revision up
<slickymaster> I don't see the relation
<slickymaster> I see the questions marks
<knome> maybe it's a cultural thing or sth
<slickymaster> maybe my fault
<slickymaster> probably
<knome> it's kind of clear to me that this is question->answer
<slickymaster> like I said, won't fight you on this
<knome> especially as it is shown in this way with this content
<knome> fair enough, though if you have a better/another idea, i'll happily hear
<slickymaster> no no 
<slickymaster> like the fading colors in the background
<slickymaster> nice touch
<flocculant> I like the white mouse + mouse and cof :)
<flocculant> knome: that desktop panel looks more like it now 
<flocculant> slickymaster: also ! could be confused ! 
<slickymaster> agree flocculant 
<knome> also, somebody might think we have localized support in cat
<flocculant> knome: can we do something about the snow though :D 
<knome> flocculant, ideas, ideas...
<slickymaster> but never (at least the way I learned) in answer
<knome> kind of like how the xerus is looking at the sky, but i'm sure most people will "miss" this easter egg
<flocculant> knome: if they are stars - slow them down - stars don't appear that quickly :p
<knome> but they are superstars
<flocculant> then one BIG one ;)
<knome> and picture the speed of how fast people appear and disappear when talking about contributions
 * knome hides
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> truth is, i'm happy to replace that with something else
<slickymaster> knome, the fad in of the icons in the first slide can be slowed down?
<knome> but i should know what it is...
<knome> slickymaster, could be.
<flocculant> knome: working on the premise of the Terve! Hallo Bienvenu
<slickymaster> it's coming too fast and then it just seats there
<knome> should iy
<knome> ...it blink red?
<flocculant> could we have something like Me You in various languages instead? 
<knome> flocculant, maybe
<knome> not a bad idea
<flocculant> slickymaster: the whole slideshow is quicker btw > I need to test how much I see of it installing to an SSD
<knome> but then why would all just say "me! me! me!"
<knome> the greeting is something you do on irc anyway
<flocculant> last time I saw 3 slides
<slickymaster> that's why I asked knome to slow it down flocculant 
<flocculant> yea - but the slide is about contributing isn't it? 
<slickymaster> it's sort of unbalanced
<knome> flocculant, isn't it about getting localized support? :D
<flocculant> knome: what? 
<knome> the one with the languages
<knome> "For support in other languages..."
<flocculant> knome: I'm talking about replacing the snow on the contribute slide
<knome> ahah
<knome> right
<flocculant> :)
<knome> why not, though it would repeat the same effect
<knome> that's a bit meh
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> sorry - but not as bad as snow in April :p
<slickymaster> in the desktop slide
<slickymaster> instead of "In the Settings Manager you will find many tools to change this default desktop"
<slickymaster> I'd go with "In the Settings Manager you will find many tools to change your default desktop"
<slickymaster> knome, flocculant ^^
<bluesabre> knome: slideshow is looking goooood
<knome> bluesabre, still, slickymaster has so much to whine about it!
<flocculant> slickymaster: perhaps - but the 'this' follows on from it being 'the desktop'
<flocculant> so it's not actually about 'your' desktop till the second paragraph 
<slickymaster> but on the previous sentence we have "... most common places on your system..." flocculant 
<flocculant> so?
<bluesabre> knome: bananas for slickymaster
<knome> :)
<flocculant> really think we're just picking holes in something which should have been finished weeks ago :p
<slickymaster> so if we're addressing the user directly, shouldn't we continue 
<flocculant> so change your to the
<slickymaster> ?
<flocculant> I still think it reads fine
<bluesabre> we could have a fake irc window... show a user login, ask for help, and immediately log out
<slickymaster> hey, you're the native speaker :P
<flocculant> slickymaster: also before you fiddle it is 'this default' 
<knome> bluesabre, how would that make any difference to the current situation?
<flocculant> and I mean fiffle with the desktop not the words :p
<slickymaster> I'm not changing anything flocculant
<bluesabre> knome: it wouldn't, just adding random bits here and there
<flocculant> bluesabre: it should say 'Hello' then log out surely? 
<slickymaster> ok, I see what you mean flocculant 
<knome> one thing that might work on the contribution slide is a testimony of a contributor
<flocculant> or a couple? 
<knome> we can only likely fit one sensibly
<knome> if we want it in a bubble at least
<flocculant> can it not fade into another? 
<knome> maybe it could
<knome> the problem with that idea is that it would be silly
<knome> considering how few contributors we actually have
<flocculant> "I couldn't code my way out of a paperbag ... I can try and run the testers for Xubuntu" 
<flocculant> there you go :p
<knome> couldn't? can't?
<bluesabre> bbabl
<flocculant> can't
<knome> well anyway
<slickymaster> knome, don't get mad, but I don't like the twinkling stars
<flocculant> I could if I tried
<knome> not completely sure about that idea
<knome> ...just an idea
<flocculant> slickymaster: it IS SNOW !!!
<flocculant> knome: yea 
<slickymaster> snow?!?!?!?!?!
<knome> it's the styrox fluffing all over pleia2's aparment after she let her cat loose in the packaging
<flocculant> I still don't see why repeating an idea on two slides is meh if it works in the context ... which it does imnsho :p
<knome> flocculant, because artists?
<knome> [:
<flocculant> knome: because not an artist ... 
<flocculant> :p
<slickymaster> I'd prefer the contributor's testimony there than the SNOW
<flocculant> ha ha 
 * knome facepalms
<flocculant> knome: perhaps if they looked like stars I'd be persuaded more easily :D
<flocculant> s/stars/snow 
<slickymaster> to take it the wrong way knome, but it feels kind of corny
<slickymaster> s/to/don't
<knome> i removed it... so please come up with better ideas now
<flocculant> anyway - moving on quickly to serious - maybe a couple of contributor statements ? 
<knome> instead of "i'd like anything else than this"
<slickymaster> what about a balloon poping over with a testimonial
<flocculant> well I was trying to be constructive with a replacement :)
<knome> flocculant, ack
<knome> flocculant, not the other guy though
<slickymaster> a contributor one
<flocculant> heh
<flocculant> bit hard to come up with a statement now unless 'team' :D
<knome> tbh, i don't think it would fit there comfortably
<slickymaster> if you're referring to me Mr. artwork man, I just made one
<knome> that's my main problem
<flocculant> knome: because?
<knome> look at how big the main bubble on the real time slide is
<knome> i wouldn't want to use the more compact form
<flocculant> knome: aah right ok 
<slickymaster> can't the "want to contribute" banner be placed more to the left knome?
<knome> so we might be able to squeeze it in, but meh
<knome> slickymaster, a tiny bit, but in the end it would still look crmaped
<slickymaster> to acCOMMODATE THE BALLON
<knome> believe me
<flocculant> knome: let me think about the wording a bit 
<slickymaster> ok~
<flocculant> knome: would that help? 
<knome> flocculant, the contribute on the banner?
<flocculant> yea
<knome> again we have to make sure translations fit
<knome> i wouldn't want to make the banner any narrower
<knome> or much anyay
<slickymaster> yeah, forgot that ^^
<knome> +w
<flocculant> aah 
<knome> so the best bet is some artwork
<flocculant> yes - I didn't even think of it tbh
<knome> :)
<knome> i've been thinking of it because i know how silly finnish is...
<flocculant> and I guess in Finnish it'd be a year long 
<knome> yes
<flocculant> ha ha snap :D
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> so what about 
<flocculant> I run the QA team !
<knome> "En osaisi koodata itseÃ¤ni ulos paperipussista... Voin yrittÃ¤Ã¤ koordinoida Xubuntun testausta"
<knome> ^ long words!
<flocculant> I run the doc team!
<knome> "I'm an idiot!"
<flocculant> stuff like that? 
<knome> ^ the website lead..
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> forget the balloon(s)
<knome> :P
<knome> figure out somethig else
<knome> you can draw a cat if you like
<knome> and we can *consider* including it
<flocculant> as much as people who can code - make it all work - we're tryinig to get people in on the bottom floor here too
<knome> very much emphasis on consider
<flocculant> coders will KNOW they can contribute 'somehow' 
<knome> "join us in the bottom floor, only crappy seats are available"
<slickymaster> lol
<knome> ;)=
<flocculant> knome: you'd not consider any cat I would draw :p
<knome> maybe as a symbol for "rubbish bin"
<knome> :X
<flocculant> knome: ok another one
<flocculant> instead of the 'including ... ' in the main text - have art, testing, docs as the 'stars' ?
<knome> i was thinking about fading in/out the teams in the empty area
<knome> but that's so used
<slickymaster> you mean having them blinking, flocculant?
<flocculant> just quickly about translations - who's translating the foreign stuff in the help slide into english ... 
<knome> flocculant, nobody - i've left a note to keep them as is
<slickymaster> no one will be flocculant 
<knome> if somebody does that, it's their fault
<knome> :P
<slickymaster> yeaps
<knome> and they will be whipped
<knome> (we could also make sure they aren't translatable by adding the stuff from JS)
<flocculant> knome: well - we don't want teams as such in the empty area do we - just a few things that we could perhaps promote? 
<slickymaster> flocculant, your idea was to having art, docs, testing, blinking?
<knome> make the farts bling!
<knome> (just apply some glitter before the blow)
<flocculant> slickymaster: not so much blinking as fading into another one perhaps - if possible
<knome> flocculant, are you thinking just "team names"?
<knome> or more text
<flocculant> knome: not specifically
<flocculant> like 
<flocculant> art
<flocculant> testing
<knome> mhm
<knome> but short stuff anyway
<flocculant> documentation or docs or documents
<knome> that might work
<flocculant> yea - short simple words
<knome> i'll think about it at the gents
<flocculant> but not coding - we've just said you can contribute if you can't :)
<flocculant> knome: lol
<slickymaster> knome, can you have those words piling up building an X?
<flocculant> art, web, testing, docs, coding
<slickymaster> art, docs, testing, etc
<flocculant> so 5 words would be best 
<flocculant> with coding in the middle perhaps
<flocculant> actually a 6 pronged one if possible
<knome> nooooo
<knome> :D
<knome> no X's
<flocculant> community in the middle - art, web, testing, docs, coding
<knome> remember the translations
<knome> they can be silly long
<flocculant> oh yea
<flocculant> ok :D
<knome> i have an idea for the effect
<knome> but it'll take a while
<knome> and while i'm working with that, can you make sure you agree on the rest of the content? 
<flocculant> okey doke
<flocculant> yep 
<knome> cheers
<slickymaster> we could also mark it as untranslatable knome 
<knome> slickymaster, i have already left a comment
<knome> slickymaster, i don't think there is a way to force something to be untranslatable
<slickymaster> yeah, that's what I intended knome 
<knome> somebody should clearly look more at the slideshow code ;)
<flocculant> knome: looks ok to me - if we get somewhere sensible with contribute I'll be a happy bunny for sure
<knome> :)
<flocculant> slickymaster: docs then - has much been done to it since I bizarrely agreed to read the whole thing? do you want me to redo that? 
<slickymaster> if you can spare the time to do it, flocculant, I'd be more then grateful
<slickymaster> btw, did anyone checked the USC -> GS chnages I made?
<slickymaster> changes even
<flocculant> slickymaster: and if I pull it - it's up to date? no gmb or USC?
<slickymaster> yes is completley up to date flocculant 
<flocculant> oh right - if you changed things I can check that :)
<slickymaster> no more gmb nor USC
<flocculant> ok - I'll pull it now - not painting any walls at all tomorrow ... 
<slickymaster> we have until the 17th flocculant 
<flocculant> yes I just looked - but if I do tomorrow and push - gives translation more chance? 
<slickymaster> if you'll have something tomorrow to push I'll merge tomorrow
<flocculant> slickymaster knome - also re docs - still fails to build pdf's - we need to decide what to do there I suppose 
<slickymaster> it won't be a problem, translations wise
<flocculant> slickymaster: just trying to make things easy as possible 
<knome> flocculant, yeah... to the worse, we can ship pre-built PDF's i guess..
<slickymaster> I know :)
<slickymaster> knome, who was with that item?
<slickymaster> you, krytarik or Unit193?
<knome> "everybody"?
<flocculant> knome: and soon I'll not have time as b2 and rc approach - so now or never really :)
<flocculant> meh
<flocculant> that was for slickymaster :) ^^
<knome> :)
<Unit193> Eh?
<slickymaster> if you'll have it tomorrow flocculant, it will be merged tomorrow
<slickymaster> that's a promess
<Unit193> flocculant: They're dropping fop to universe, the new one "should" fix it.
<flocculant> hey Unit193 :)
<Unit193> Howdy.
<slickymaster> hey Unit193 
<flocculant> Unit193: aah cool - I do watch what I update and look for things I'm waiting for 
<flocculant> if it doesn't I will shout out 
<slickymaster> Trello now has a Chrome extension
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> not using it much now other than for working timing out tbh
<flocculant> and failing :p
<slickymaster> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-10
<bluesabre> back
<flocculant> welcome back Sean :)
<bluesabre> thanks
<flocculant> slideshow is looking good 
<flocculant> knome is just off working magic for the contribute one we think :)
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> noticed the astrerisk stars went away
<slickymaster> not sure which version is working on, though
<flocculant> the words replace snow I think slickymaster :)
<flocculant> as bluesabre noticed - no snow in Xubuntu land currently
<slickymaster> or the words piling up into an X
<bluesabre> oh, it was snow?
<bluesabre> :D
<slickymaster> lol
<flocculant> bluesabre: no - I think it was stars :p
<flocculant> but I saw snow - then couldn't see stars :(
<Unit193> bluesabre: Anything I need to look at?
<flocculant> though I would if he thumped me in the eye :p
<flocculant> Unit193: core merge? 
<flocculant> :p
<Unit193> No.
<Unit193> :P
<flocculant> :)
 * flocculant adds it to agenda
<slickymaster> poor core :(
<slickymaster> no love
<bluesabre> Unit193: last 2 commits here look good to you? https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/xenial/changes
<flocculant> slickymaster: core was bad - he was core first
<slickymaster> last cigarette of the day
 * flocculant patiently reads these changes things waiting for the day
<flocculant> slickymaster: it's tomorrow ... 
<flocculant> sorry and all that
<slickymaster> only technically, flocculant :P
<Unit193> Big commit. :(
 * flocculant doesn't patiently read the second one - assume it's all Greek anyway
<bluesabre> Unit193: mostly a bunch of deleted files
<Unit193> Mhmm.
<flocculant> knome slickymaster - dragging the discussion back here
<slickymaster> consider me dragged flocculant 
<flocculant> nothing that I can see - I would really like to see what it looks like when installing in SSD
<slickymaster> you rich you
<flocculant> well I'm obviously loaded ... 
<flocculant> :p
<slickymaster> :)
<flocculant> not sure about slowing down slide #1 - looks procactive to me 
<flocculant> there is a distinct wait for the 'words'
<slickymaster> my point is that the icons came too fast 
<flocculant> slickymaster: all at once?
<slickymaster> and then just sit there until the transition to the next slide
<flocculant> not sure that is an issue
<slickymaster> not much an issue
<flocculant> don't you get words a bit later? 
<flocculant> so
<slickymaster> rather makes it unbalanced
<flocculant> slide starts with left panel
<flocculant> get icons
<flocculant> get words
<flocculant> is what I see
<slickymaster> but after the words showing up, noting happens
<slickymaster> for a period longer than it took them to appear
<slickymaster> not sure if I'm making myself clear :P
<flocculant> slickymaster: so what you'd like to see is the slide itself finish quicker? 
<slickymaster> no, no that
<flocculant> slickymaster: so just a real general slowdown? 
<slickymaster> I'd like to have a proportional amount of time between the two distinct phases os the slide
<flocculant> not sure tbh
<flocculant> it was quite quick > ubuntu +xfce= xubuntu 
<slickymaster> x time until the icons first start to appear proportinal to all icons and words there
<flocculant> we're advertising xubuntu here I guess
<slickymaster> well, yeah
<knome> we're not
<knome> they are already installing xubuntu
<flocculant> true
<slickymaster> they could be just trying knome 
<slickymaster> not yet convinced
<flocculant> but we're not overworrrying about them doing anythign but Xubuntu
<flocculant> surely
<knome> yep, they are trying our product out; if they like it, they'll keep it
<knome> no need for cheesy marketing
<slickymaster> does what I'm saying about the time makes any sense to you two?
<flocculant> so - if this slide is quick - then the rest give them the reason to stay
<flocculant> slickymaster: I know what you mean - I've installed on a vm too - but I've installed on SSD and it is quick
<flocculant> so - slide too quick - don't restart and read things you missed 
<slickymaster> yeah, I can only imagine that
<flocculant> is my position 
<flocculant> personally
<slickymaster> I'l happily go with the consnsus on this one
<slickymaster> * consensus
<flocculant> I'd look for an arrow or something - I already know what Xubuntu is - and you'd have to be a bit slow to not know it's some sort of X with ubuntu :)
<flocculant> is my position 
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> twice :D
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> knome, what's your position?
<knome> sofa
<slickymaster> hah
<slickymaster> same here
<knome> i can look to make that first slide faster
<slickymaster> can't you just change the icons fading time?
<knome> i can, but what does that ultimately fix
<slickymaster> that way there wouldn't be no need to change the slide time
<knome> then the user would just sit looking at the slower than snail fadein
<slickymaster> no, if it wasn't an abrupt change
<flocculant> we could go on for hours about this - personally I'd like to see all of the slides fade really quick till the contribute one :p
<knome> a small change won't make the waiting time with the fully animated stuff much shorter
<knome> essentially, the first slide is boring, but it has to be there
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> so we could just make it progress faster
<slickymaster> works for me
<knome> helps with the "slideshow too slow" issue as well
<slickymaster> yes
<flocculant> so just change the time slide# takes to do stuff? 
<bluesabre> holy moly, this channel got busy
<knome> flocculant, for that single slide, yeah
<flocculant> bluesabre: well UI freeze in less than 24 hours and suddenly the slideshow is really important :p
<knome> flocculant, keep the animation the same, but show the animated stuff for less time tbe
<flocculant> knome: ack
<slickymaster> yes, the others don't need to be changed
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'm running QA like this next cycle :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: great :D
<flocculant> \o/
<knome> that's not fair, the slideshow branch was there to look for quite some time :P
<bluesabre> knome: working on the -artwork upload now
<flocculant> knome: ha ha ha 
<slickymaster> knome, re. the contributors slide you went with the fading words option?
<flocculant> knome: serious point now
<knome> besides, it doesn't make sense to finish the slideshow at the beginning of a cycle because we need to make sure it's current
<knome> flocculant, mhm?
<knome> slickymaster, no, the *sliding* words, but i'll have to finish that tomorrow
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> bluesabre, goodie
<flocculant> knome: given I can't get branch to work on livesession - can we push this out so it lands - if so Friday or Saturday in the iso? 
<knome> yes, my intention is to get it ready tomorrow for bluesabre to upload
<flocculant> then I can quickly do a real install and see if we need to tweak time
<knome> err
<knome> bluesabre can't upload
<knome> for somebody to upload
<flocculant> ok
<knome> i'll work on it tomorrow, don't worry
<flocculant> I'd really like us to have a slideshow that can be seen for people installing to SSD
<knome> yes
<flocculant> especially given it's got to be good for 3 years 
<knome> :)
<slickymaster> I'll have to be up in 5 hours, so bed time for me
<knome> nighty slickymaster
<flocculant> I don't have the quickest - but I do have one that's not a platter :p
<flocculant> night slickymaster 
<slickymaster> flocculant, will you take a look at the docs during the day?
<flocculant> slickymaster: I'm all up to date now :)
<knome> flocculant, we already went from 50000 to 25000, that should be twice as fast :)
<slickymaster> I won't be able to log to the channel until after dinner
<flocculant> knome: or half as slow
<knome> and as i said, 20000 should be okay as well
<flocculant> yep
<knome> nope, less is faster
<flocculant> let's see what I get 
<knome> yeah
<slickymaster> see you all later
<bluesabre> nighty slickymaster
<flocculant> night slickymaster :)
<bluesabre> knome: if the installer is going to be faster, maybe we could have a link for the -offtopic channel on that last slide (we already mention it)
<bluesabre> "Still around, want to chat?"
<knome> heh
<knome> maybe
<bluesabre> just a thought
<flocculant> bluesabre: good point 
<bluesabre> an unofficial, don't really consider it too hard, thought
<knome> though then the expectation is that there is always somebody waiting to chat...
<bluesabre> that's true too
<flocculant> but on the other hand - someone might be 
<knome> sure
<flocculant> bluesabre: currently the last slide shows the link - but doesn't link
<flocculant> we could maybe fiddle words
<flocculant> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1604-slideshow 
<flocculant> at the bottom
<flocculant> knome: actually on the other hand given that the interwebs decided that we were 1 up from Lubuntu - people probably will be :)
<knome> heh
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> that kind of takes care of people installing quickly - and those installing slowly, everyone else is kind of where they were 
<flocculant> I think I'm mostly done with words now :p
<knome> mostly...
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> I could drone on - but it'll be a drone in my head too :)
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> forgot to bump that version number to 16.04
<bluesabre> I'll do another upload in the morning, probably a typo in there somewhere or something
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> it's too bad that folks that can upload to the archive can't auto-cancel their own uploads
<knome> heh
<knome> áºhat'd be chaotic
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> suppose so
<Unit193> flocculant: So, -pa-plug was taking 40%cpu...
 * Unit193 wonders if bluesabre was drunk uploading again...
<pavlushka> Hi there!!
<pavlushka> flocculant, Hi
<flocculant> pavlushka: hi :)
<pavlushka> flocculant, Hi
<flocculant> knome: in the user docs, what-is-xubuntu calls ~&last-lts-version and -codename - where are they? can't find them - but they both point to 14.04 in 16.04 docs - or does that change automatically? 
<Unit193> flocculant: Do http://paste.openstack.org/show/584pGWSgPJGTisilLp1Y
<bluesabre> Unit193: just forgetful
<Unit193> Because of the weird version, and '16.o4' :)
<Unit193> Wait, elementary-icon-theme is arch 'any' not arch 'all'?
<bluesabre> holy crap, did I type 16.o4?
<flocculant> Unit193: so confused now - what user.ent is that?
<bluesabre> oh wow
<bluesabre> I don't deserve to upload anymore
<flocculant> 0h 0h :(
<Unit193> That's not under your name, though. :P
<bluesabre> there's the typo I wanted so I can re-upload
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> got it sorted?
<flocculant> knome: me? I think so - just not sure where Unit193 gets 16.04 from :p
<knome> :)
<knome> nowhere
<knome> it should be updated on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/xenial/view/head:/user-docs/libs/xubuntu-user.ent
<knome> and done
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/16.04.0 :)
<flocculant> knome: ok
<Unit193> krytarik: â
<knome> bluesabre, have you coordinated a -docs upload with slickymaster before the next beta?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nice.
<bluesabre> slickymaster: let me know when you're ready to upload -docs
<bluesabre> knome: yes
<knome> good
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> slickymaster, make sure the translation templates are updated...
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> slickymaster: this will need to be before March 21, for b2 freeze
<Unit193> Hoho, and fop is actually in universe, so everything should build even. :D
<bluesabre> :o
<flocculant> Unit193: well I have fop - I have no fop upgradable - pdf's don't build :)
<flocculant> rather I have the same version locally as at universe
<bluesabre> dun dun dunnnn
<flocculant> but
<knome> Unit193, maybe you should look why it doesn't work.....
<Unit193> Well I'll check if I can confirm it.
<Unit193> knome: Font issues, droid stuff.
<knome> "nice"
<knome> i should likely look at that
<knome> flocculant, look at the slideshow! :)
<knome> lunch -->
<flocculant> knome: that's \o/ 
<flocculant> assuming it'll be more than artwork and documentation :)
<flocculant> and pretty much exactly what I had in mind eventually ;)
<knome> flocculant, the slide can show about 6 and a half items, and if we have less, it'll wrap
<bluesabre> knome: so, I can contribute to artwork or documentation?
<knome> yes.
<knome> i need to fix that
<knome> try going back to that slide :X
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> or switching back and forth between them
<knome> yes, or that
<knome> i've used more time in making sure the effects die graciously than making sure they look good
<knome> >__<
<bluesabre> https://youtu.be/rN6A9S4kKQo
<bluesabre> :D
 * bluesabre is a monster
<knome> haha
<knome> there's a "Noto Sans UI"
<knome> ...
 * knome looks
<knome> hmm, it isn't visible in the font list
<knome> so let's not use it
<knome> le sigh
<knome> bluesabre, can you confirm something for me?
<knome> does the documentation package depend on droid now?
<knome> if yes, can we get it to depend on noto?
<knome> and since noto doesn't have a mono variant, i'm going to have to drop in dejavu sans too
<knome> so maybe we should depend on that too
<knome> or i think recommend
<knome> because of course we have fallbacks
<knome> actually the PDF's do require those fonts
<knome> ...
<knome> Unit193, can you check if the docs build on xenial with the latest revision?
<knome> the font issues should be fixed now
<ochosi> don't we use something else than dejavu for mono?
<knome> the terminal is dejavu
<ochosi> liberation mono
<knome> no?
<ochosi> we changed dejavu to liberation a few cycles ago
<knome> sigh...
<ochosi> (it was your request at the time)
<knome> okay?
<ochosi> okay!
 * knome shrugs
<knome> i'll go put the pieces back then...
<knome> but i think it was your request
<knome> i still use dejavu sans, so i can't think why i would have proposed liberation
<knome> i'm sure i was "okay" with it
<knome> i should make all commands replace "xubutnu" with "xubuntu"
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi: definitely dejavu https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/terminal/terminalrc
<bluesabre> and https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/debian/xubuntu-default-settings.gsettings-override#L18
<bluesabre> knome: the package itself has no font depends http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/xubuntu-docs
<bluesabre> and the mandatory okay with different punctuation...
<bluesabre> okay.
<bluesabre> and knome: http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/fonts-noto-mono
<ochosi> odd, i wonder why i have liberation then
<ochosi> i don't remember deliberately changing this (ever)
<knome> ochosi, sigh :)
<knome> bluesabre, what would you think about recommends?
<knome> the pdf's look a bit crappy without the font (eg. fallback to fallback serif)
<knome> i'll revert the revert to liberation commit then...
<ochosi> sry bout that then
<ochosi> i switched to inconsolata now to make it clear that i'm not using the default ;)
<knome> hah
<ochosi> and crap, is noto big
<ochosi> still dl-ing that piece of work
<knome> yeah....
<knome> too big really
<knome> :P
<ochosi> ridiculous considering it's "only a font"
<knome> yes
<knome> ok, revert done
 * knome slaps ochosi gently
<knome> :<
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> knome: recommends means it will pull it normally, but since that's the default font, seems reasonable to me
<knome> yes, i'm aware, and exactly
<knome> and it makes the documentation branded with the unified look
<knome> or integrated, or whatever you want to call it
 * knome goes fixing the slideshow
<knome> so bluesabre can't troll more
<knome> oh wow
<knome> the jquery function returns the right value now
<knome> good god
<knome> how nice of it
<bluesabre> js, love it or hate it, usually the latter
<knome> though js !== jquery
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> jquery further expands the love/hate relationship
<knome> haha
<knome> well it makes things so easy
<bluesabre> yup
<knome> and it's sometimes shameful to use it
<knome> when there's a pure js alternative
<knome> i'm just too lazy for that most of the time
<bluesabre> ease of use/readability almost always wins out for me
<knome> yeah
<knome> so what are the keywords we want to use on the contribute slide?
<bluesabre> ochosi, you think noto is big?
<bluesabre> !info fonts-noto-hinted xenial
<ubottu> fonts-noto-hinted (source: fonts-noto): "No Tofu" font families with large Unicode coverage (hinted). In component universe, is optional. Version 20160116-1 (xenial), package size 4725 kB, installed size 15581 kB
<bluesabre> !info fonts-noto-cjk xenial
<ubottu> fonts-noto-cjk (source: fonts-noto-cjk): "No Tofu" font families with large Unicode coverage (CJK). In component main, is optional. Version 1:1.004+repack1-1 (xenial), package size 72656 kB, installed size 112297 kB
<flocculant> knome: ok - 6 is more than enough I guess :)
<knome> yes
<knome> but what do we have in them?
<knome> i don't think we want the current 4
<knome> which are
<knome> artwork, documentation, testing
<knome> and
<knome> xxx
<flocculant> I didn't mean use 6 :D
<flocculant> web? 
<knome> maybe social media
<flocculant> mmm 
<knome> do we want them alphabetically?
<flocculant> no
<knome> or from easiest to hardest
<knome> so in that case probably
<knome> sm, t, d, a
<knome> or am happy with t, sm, d, a too
<bluesabre> bugs? dev?
<flocculant> anything but alphapathetic and I'll be happy :p
<flocculant> bugs is good 
<knome> bug triage?
<knome> "bugs and other animals like cats"
<flocculant> triage perhaps
<knome> 		<div>testing</div>
<knome> 		<div>social media</div>
<knome> 		<div>documentation</div>
<knome> 		<div>bug triage</div>
<knome> 		<div>artwork</div>
<flocculant> best add dev for bluesabre :p
<knome> <div>development for bluesabre</div>
<flocculant> \o/
<bluesabre> <div>bUg triage</div>
<knome> bug tirage
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bug rage
<flocculant> I win :p
<bluesabre> yes
<knome> that's clearly what we want new contributors to help with...
<flocculant> rage? 
<knome> yes
<bluesabre> adding to?
 * knome shrugs
<knome> pushed new revision
<flocculant> bluesabre: last night my thinking was ' should we put dev in there, I would have expected that anyone who could code would know where to start anyway' 
<knome> are we happy to land this for beta (we will have time for fixes after that)
<knome> flocculant, last night you had all of your beer too
<bluesabre> I've gotta run out now, but I've been good with the current direction
<knome> :X
 * flocculant waits for bzr to catch up 
<flocculant> bluesabre: have a good one - cya later
<flocculant> knome: ha ha 
<knome> think i'm going to push this to the main branch soon
<knome> ...in one commit
<flocculant> not pulling anything new here
<knome> hmm
<knome> helps if i push i guess
<flocculant> might do :p
<knome> and done, rev 748
 * knome goes cleaning for a bit, when i get back and there are no loud whines, i'll push to the main branch
<knome> :)
<flocculant> and yes - I'm happy to land this for beta :D
<bluesabre> same here
<flocculant> looks good to me - thanks for the work on it knome :)
<bluesabre> knome: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1555046 if you want to nudge today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1555046 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Please upload shimmer-themes-2.1.1-0ubuntu1 to xenial" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> ->
<slickymaster> bluesabre, just waiting to flocculant's hawk eyes to review the -docs for spelling and grammar errors, which he'll do today
<slickymaster> so everything will be ready tonight
<slickymaster> I'll make sure Grandpa knome :P
<flocculant> hi slickymaster :)
<slickymaster> going to branch now the slideshow knome, so I'll be able to have a look at it this afternoon at work
<slickymaster> hey flocculant 
<slickymaster> saw you already started to review the docs
<flocculant> yep
<slickymaster> will you be done tonight?
<flocculant> yea for sure
<flocculant> slickymaster: I need to fiddle with contrib too - shall I do that seperately or all together?
<slickymaster> do it all together flocculant, I'll have one single merge to do
<flocculant> okey doke
<slickymaster> after that I'll coordinate with bluesabre in order to upload 
<flocculant> yup
<slickymaster> knome, will the font issue (regarding the PDFs build) be fixed by then
<slickymaster> ?
<slickymaster> ok, got lunch now and head on to work
<slickymaster> see you later
<slickymaster> ->
<knome> the font stuff should be fixed now, but i'm waiting for Unit193 to confirm it works for him too
<knome> ...or you should be waiting
<knome> flocculant, one more thing... now that we have the keywords rolling on the slide, shoudl we reconsider the banner content?
<flocculant> knome: how about losing the middle paragraph completely then add the contributor docs to the last paragraph
<flocculant> the middle one isn't really any different than the keywords 
<flocculant> I'll move to pad 
<knome> sure
<flocculant> back to reading the docs for a while 
<flocculant> for anyone who can answer ... 
<flocculant> docs for dvd points to gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly - should that be gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly
<knome> flocculant, new draft for contrib slide on pad
<flocculant> yep - that works
<knome> ok, dropping that in
<flocculant> cool
<flocculant> knome: got a moment? 
<knome> yes
<knome> a short one :) 
<flocculant> http://docs.xubuntu.org/1510/C/managing-applications.html
<flocculant> that has warning about 2 package managers
<knome> right
<flocculant> that's not the case with gs
<flocculant> so reword the warning to " ...  you may receive an error message"
<knome> yes
<knome> sounds good to me
<knome> "In most cases, you can only use one package..."
<knome> or sth like that might be good too
<flocculant> and add a note about gs in it's preamble? 
<flocculant> yea - wfm
<knome> i don't think we specifically need to mention that gs doesn't care about that
<flocculant> then not bother with a gs note? 
<knome> it's minutiae
<flocculant> yep - that wfm as well :)
<flocculant> thanks :)
<knome> most people can't even name two package managers
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> (even if we just listed those for them...)
<flocculant> lol
<knome> ok, xubuntu slides are at the main branch, and have requested for an upload
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> did you add the whim wham for grinding smoke? 
<knome> ...what? :D
<flocculant> :d
<flocculant> ground to a halt on the docs re dvd's 
<flocculant> pretty sure it can be a lot simpler now - but don't have the hardware to check it out :)
<flocculant> any real reason we warble on about 13.04 and 13.10 on the printer page? 
<knome> flocculant, nope
<flocculant> knome: ta :)
<knome> since the old documentation is kept intact, i don't see any reason to mention anything in the docs that it at least not supported any more
<knome> bbl
<Xsm> Hello all - waves.
<akxwi-dave> o7
<knome> ok, slideshow is in order (cyphermox will take care of that - thanks again)
<cyphermox> not sure what code to take though
<flocculant> slickymaster: all done 
<flocculant> well that's a bare faced lie ... 
<flocculant> all is done except the dvd and encryption bit - which needs looking at - we tell people to install a gstreamer 0.10 package - afaik they're on the bus out of town > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2016-January/004780.html
<flocculant> also we can point to libdvd-pkg for libdvdcss2
<flocculant> I've added something to the docs blueprint for this so it doesn't get forgotten
<knome> nice
<knome> http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-timeline tells me i't been a productive week
<knome> it's
 * knome goes hacky-hack on the dev. website
<knome> hurrah, looks totally broken
 * knome proceeds to fixing things
<xubuntu49w> Hey I'm looking to make a portable xubuntu derivative.  When I unzip the .iso to my flash drive, boot and remove the specified packages (see:  xubuntu-derivateives), I cannot generate a bootable image of the live session using dd
<xubuntu49w> dd if=/dev/sdx of=path/to/isogenerated.iso
<knome> so dev.xubuntu.org has now the tabs visible at all times, not under the menu
<flocculant> knome: is there actually a difference between dev.x and the tracker?
<knome> good question
<knome> for the data, no
<knome> for the looks, yes
<knome> at some point i will redirect tracker to dev
<flocculant> well yea I understood there was a visual difference - even I can see that :p
<knome> hehe
<knome> i was just answering your question though...
<flocculant> :)
<knome> so technically they both connect to the same database
<knome> so there will be no difference in the data
<flocculant> right
<knome> the dev. code might be slightly improved for something more than just the "main" looks, but not much
<knome> (or in other words once i set up dev., i haven't updated the tracker code any morE)
<knome> that said, there aren't any "bugs" on the tracker
<knome> it's just not that sleek code
<flocculant> I see gaps between people's names if I look at tab-details/assignees
<knome> in dev or traker?
<knome> +c
<flocculant> dev
<knome> (have you noticed my C key is not working correctly?)
<flocculant> not really notied that 
<knome> i have >__<
<flocculant> :)
<knome> oh right
<knome> yeah
<knome> that's broooken
<knome> that's because the latest updates
<flocculant> I lost q once - password had q in it - that was fun 
<knome> so back to fixing stuff
<flocculant> ok - just wanted to make sure you knew :)
<knome> i didn't - thanks
<flocculant> oh right - your welcome :p
<knome> flocculant, can you confirm there's no gaps or other wonkyness in there now?
<flocculant> that looks better :)
<knome> good
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> didn't realise search box ... 
<flocculant> useful :)
<knome> :D
<knome> it's been there FOREVER
<knome> and yeah, it's really useful when you are looking for a specific work item
<knome> especially as it autoupdates live
<knome> HEYY, the artwork blueprint is the first one to be complete again!
 * knome high fives ochosi 
<xubuntu49w> Hey I'm looking to make a portable xubuntu derivative.  When I unzip the .iso to my flash drive, boot and remove the specified packages (see:  xubuntu-derivateives), I cannot generate a bootable image of the live session using dd [17:43] <xubuntu49w> dd if=/dev/sdx of=path/to/isogenerated.iso
<knome> xubuntu49w, it sounds like you are having trouble with remastering rather than xubuntu itself; you might get better results asking somewhere else (maybe #ubuntu-devel?) on those issues
<xubuntu49w> ty
<xubuntu84w> Hey I'm looking to make a portable xubuntu derivative.  When I unzip the .iso to my flash drive, boot and remove the specified packages (see:  xubuntu-derivateives), I cannot generate a bootable image of the live session using  dd if=/dev/sdx of=path/to/isogenerated.iso
<knome> ...but you just asked that question
<xubuntu84w> sry messed up channels
<xubuntu84w> forgive me
<knome> no problem
<xubuntu40w> what do you guys know about the packages that need to be removed to create a xubuntu derivative?  are any of them essential to boot, or to recreation of an .iso from a live session?
<knome> none of the packages that need to be removed are essential in booting; they are all practically related to the xubuntu brand and artwork
<flocculant> knome: I'll check slideshow speed tomorrow :)
<knome> goodie
<knome> great, i filled up my vbox HDD
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> resize it :p
<knome> maybe i should
<knome> bbiab
<krytarik> knome: Having looked through all your font changes for the docs earlier today, you thinking of updating the build depends too?
<knome> i leave thinking for others...
<knome> so maybe a MP? ;)
<krytarik> Gah, no. :P
<knome> oh yeah!
<knome> you set yourself up...
<knome> not my fault that
<knome> so...
<knome> i can get the PDF's to build on xenial
<knome> there are a few caveats to that though
<knome> krytarik, you available for a little chat?
<flocculant> your upside down in the corner of the room ?
<knome> boy that sounded harsh...
<knome> no, i have to export one env variable and create one symlink
<flocculant> knome: what's it failing on then? 
<flocculant> oh right ok :)
<knome> first one is that fop doesn't find the java env
<knome> so export JAVA_CMD=/usr/bin/java
<knome> and actually one more thing;
<knome> need to install the non-headless java, even if we don't run GUI app
<knome> once that's done, it doesn't find some common files
<knome> so,
<knome> "ln -s ../libs-common libs-common" in both user-docs and contributor-docs
<knome> after that, make works
<knome> i'll test something that should fix the last part
<knome> yep, that works
<flocculant> duct tape and spit then 
<krytarik> knome: A bit busy picking up with today's things still - but it seems you got it figured anyway. :P
<knome> still wondering about the headless stuff
<knome> and what the best way to use the env var is, or if there's a way to avoid that
<knome> i would really want to avoid pulling the non-headless java in at least.
<knome> Unit193, your input please
<flocculant> how did I manage that ... 
<knome> /part
<flocculant> yes 
<knome> :)
<flocculant> but I didn't 
<knome> yeah sure
<flocculant> not saying it didn't happen 
<Unit193> knome: I would, but nothing to say on the subject really.  Just that setting the env var and fop not pulling in the deps it needs seems crappy.
<knome> yeah, fop explicitly asks for headless
<knome> and tbh, i think that should be enough
<knome> https://bz.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=50062
<ubottu> bz.apache.org bug 50062 in general "fop steals focus from GUI applications even though it is a CLI application" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<knome> -> https://bz.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=50062#c9
<knome> right, so the problem seems to be that after one runs fop in a headless mode, it can't find some accessibility stuff
<knome> hmm.
<knome> the JAVA_CMD env var isn't needed when the non-headless stuff is installed, it seesm
<knome> seems too...
 * ochosi high-fives knome back
<ochosi> we almost fixed the burndown this week ;)
<knome> :)
<slickymaster> evening all
<knome> 'lo
<flocculant> evening ochosi slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hi flocculant, knome, ochosi
<knome> slickymaster, did you notice i resolved the PDF building failure for docs?
<slickymaster> yeaps, I did
<knome> so where's the thanks?!
<slickymaster> saw the changes in the blueprint
<knome> :P
<slickymaster> one thing at a time
<knome> right, rum first, thanks then
<knome> ;)
<slickymaster> right now, seeing flocculant's hard labour
<slickymaster> btw knome, great work on the slides
 * slickymaster bows
<knome> glad you enjoy it after all the whining :P
<slickymaster> if I don't whine you take your graphical design skills as granted :P
<knome> :P
<slickymaster> flocculant, going to move you up, to keep the alphabetic consistency, in the contributors list
<slickymaster> in user-docs/C/index.xml
<flocculant> night all
<knome> nighty flocculant 
<slickymaster> have a good one flocculant 
<slickymaster> and thanks
<PaulW2U> y
<slickymaster> bluesabre, -docs all ready for upload
<slickymaster> \o/
<slickymaster> knome, dkessel, krytarik, lots of news strings to be translated :P
<slickymaster> knome, a warm and huge THANKS for solving the PDF building failures in the -docs
<slickymaster> ;)
<knome> :P
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-11
<xubuntu99w> hey all, so I'm making a custom build of Xubu for a computer project but I can't manage to remaster or generate the iso from a live file system, then how to add persistence after.  Anyone know?
<xubuntu99w> (to a usb)
<xubuntu16w> hey i'm looking to customize a distro through a live session (make a derivative) then I want to dd a copy of that to an .iso file so that it can be copied as bootable to another drive
<xubuntu16w> is there a way to do it? dd has failed so far
<Unit193> fdisk -l file.iso  and check the results.
<xubuntu16w> okay, and can i use remastersys in v15?
<Unit193> I'd have no idea, never looked at that.
<Unit193> That'll at least tell you if it is a hybrid iso.
<xubuntu16w> but that misses the question
<xubuntu16w> how do i make a copy of the live system i am running?
<xubuntu83w> looking to generate a xubuntu .iso from within a live filesystem
<xubuntu83w> anyone know how?
<Justanick> Thanks for the work at Xubuntu!
<flocculant> knome: what's bug 1663609 about? 
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1663609 could not be found
<flocculant> only asking you cos it's obviously private and you reported it on the tracker :p
<bluesabre> morning all
<flocculant> morning bluesabre :)
<flocculant> bit early isn't it?
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, but went to bed a bit early too
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I read that - bit light headed :)
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> time to package up xubuntu-docs
<flocculant> \o/
<knome> flocculant, hmm...
<knome> flocculant, better now :P
<flocculant> nope 
<flocculant> oh I see
<flocculant> you removed it from the tracker :D
<knome> yeah, it was a typing error, should've been 1553609
<flocculant> aah :)
<knome> eg. the same blueman bug
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> that's an odd one
<knome> yeah..
<flocculant> right - quick zsync and I'll get this ssd install done and see if the slideshow gets time
<knome> :)
<flocculant> ewww :(
<knome> what?
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/hsTOSXj.png
<flocculant> wanders off to other gtk3 things to look 
<knome> :D
 * knome phews
<knome> thought the slideshow had went nuts...
<flocculant> catfish, fileroller and calc look ok - disks looks rather yuk though 
<flocculant> knome: ha - zsync is quick - getting the image on a stick isn't - not gone yet :D
<knome> :)
<Justanick> @ Launchpad bug 1553609
<Justanick> I have seen this bug also, but only in the VMWare Player and not on my physical system.
<meetingology> Justanick: Error: "Launchpad" is not a valid command.
<flocculant> Justanick: yea - we see it on vbox too 
<Justanick> flocculant: Should just be an information.
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi knome - http://i.imgur.com/hsTOSXj.png in greybird, not in numix
<flocculant> back shortly
<bluesabre> flocculant: file a bug for that in case ochosi is out for a while
<knome> yeah
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea will do - shimmer themeseses ?
<knome> yeseseseses
<flocculant> knome: you want the good news or bad news first? 
<knome> bad
<flocculant> ready to go slide - it's a list - the window is not resizeable as you know - I only saw down to LO Calc 
<knome> screenshot?
<flocculant> didn't then - will look in vbox shortly
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> the good news is the installer finished 7 seconds after the slideshow :)
<knome> :)
<knome> right, so i'm pretty sure i know how to fix the app slide
<bluesabre> flocculant: yes
<flocculant> just booting a vm for install now
<bluesabre> knome, slickymaster https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/16.04
<knome> hooray
<bluesabre> knome, slickymaster: feel free to bump the release from UNRELEASED to xenial in the debian/changelog
<knome> flocculant, oh wow yeah, it is a list here too
<knome> what the...
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/ryv08t2.png
<knome> oh
 * knome facepalms
<knome> my mistake
<knome> i *totally* know how to fix that
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> haha
<flocculant> okey doke :)
<knome> there we go
<knome> pushed to the main branch, so that should be visible on the ISOs once a new release is done
<flocculant> knome: you want me to rebuild? 
<knome> no need to
<knome> especially if you mean the ISO
<flocculant> I did 
<knome> because we need an upload...
<flocculant> oh yea 
<knome> bluesabre, done
<knome> eh no
<knome> diverged branches
<knome> let me just get the whole branch again for a change
<flocculant> bug 1556027
<ubottu> bug 1556027 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Gnome Disks restore image menu shows thick lines" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1556027
<flocculant> put it on the blueprint 
<knome> ta
<flocculant> need a bug for the slideshow or not? 
<flocculant> assuming not :)
<knome> nope, it's fix committed already
<flocculant> yep - thought so - I noted it on the tracker just in case anyway looks today
<flocculant> quite pleased that the timing for the slideshow was ok 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> pretty good guessing with 10 seconds to spare :D
<flocculant> biab
<knome> flocculant, one thing... if we wanted a link directly to webchat from #xubuntu-offtopic, that hasn't been done yet
<flocculant> right - I guess we should 
<ochosi> flocculant: is that a bug you see in xenial?
<flocculant> ochosi: yea - recently 
<knome> ochosi, you broke it!
<ochosi> if so, could you check "open file" in any other gtk3 app?
 * knome stands proud and waits for the slap
<bluesabre> oh god
<ochosi> knome: either i broke it or they pushed a gtk3 update/change
<bluesabre> open file looks bad in other apps
<flocculant> ochosi: yea - open file in fileroller does the same
<ochosi> alright, then it's obvious that it's the sidebar class
<ochosi> i'll look into fixing that asap
<flocculant> ochosi: thinking about it - I did see some rabbiting on in -desktop the other day
<knome> must be ochosi's fault anyway...
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> knome: too pointed? http://pad.ubuntu.com/V7rfHrI9Nz
<bluesabre> knome: packagesets are lowercase technically, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/xenial/kubuntu
<knome> yeah but Kubuntu is Kubuntu...
<bluesabre> er http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/xenial/
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> oh right
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> knome is a good email writer
<knome> ok, i think that's better
<bluesabre> cool
<knome> since you asked if it was too pointy, not really, quite the opposite
<knome> "if this is possible..."
<knome> just ask "we'd like to get this back please" ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> but wait
<bluesabre> ok
<knome> there
 * bluesabre sees a wild flocculant
 * flocculant saw a wild pad :p
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> sending it along then
<knome> goodie
<flocculant> bluesabre: you know there's only cyphermox and infinity in dmb now ...
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, but rules are rules
<flocculant> yea
<bluesabre> I should probably get my application in for that this weekend
<knome> pleia2, no need to react to this, but as you might see, i pushed stuff from contest.xubuntu.org to the dev branch too; we might want to merge the static branch there as well, since i see no real reason to track this stuff separately; feel free to disagree and tell me to push to different branches anyway (with arguments ;))
<knome> and to the MOTU
<knome> :d
<bluesabre> knome: probably not done enough non-xubuntu packaging to matter for motu
<knome> heh
<knome> anyway
<bluesabre> it looks like I only care about us :D
<knome> bbl ->
<flocculant> ha ha 
<cyphermox> what do you need the dmb for?
<flocculant> sorry - I forgot you were in the channel ... 
<flocculant> bluesabre sent a mail re shimmer-themes and it should be xubuntu but kubuntu have it
<flocculant> means little to me tbh - not my bag :p
<bluesabre> hey cyphermox
<cyphermox> hi :)
<bluesabre> we are unable to upload to shimmer-themes since its outside of our package set... it used to be ours, but got pulled into Kubuntu and has been stuck there since
<bluesabre> at this point, there is nothing that should be keeping it in Kubuntu, but we still can't upload it
<bluesabre> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/xenial/kubuntu vs http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/xenial/xubuntu
<cyphermox> ok
<bluesabre> and the mail in question, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2016-March/000910.html
<bluesabre> :)
<gQuigs> from a discusison on desktop ML... does anyone know if xfce4-volumed still does anything on the xubuntu image (or if it's needed at all anymore..)
<gQuigs> (from post - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2016-March/004790.html)
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi, Unit193, sidi: ^
<gQuigs> it's been removed from debian, so I'm thinking it's no longer needed - but it is still a Recommends of ubuntustudio-desktop-core, xfce4-settings, xubuntu-core, and xubuntu-desktop
<sidi> Remove it :-)
<sidi> you guys use the pulse fork
<knome> pulse spoon
<sidi> I cant port the ALSA fork because of a missing interface in GStreamer. I might some day rip/fork gstreamer 0.1 just to get the mixer back and remake a panel plugin and all but who's got time.
<sidi> I still deeply hate Pulse tho so there's that.
<knome> you're silly.
<knome> added a work item, thanks gQuigs, sidi 
<sidi> What is Martin Pitt's IRC Handle tho?
<flocculant> pitti
<gQuigs> ty!
<flocculant> and hi sidi :)
<sidi> hi flocculant ! :-)
<gQuigs> sidi: are you pinging Martin about it on IRC?
<knome> i'll do that
<knome> oh, sidi did already
<knome> good good
<sidi> yeah just wanted to clarify why we use 0.10
<knome> well why we.. don't use 0.10 :P
<sidi> We, as in sidi, do :p
<sidi> #pulseovermydeadbody
<knome> oh, the royal we
<knome> i'll remember that on your funeral
<gQuigs> why we don't use gst0.10 anymore?
<knome> gQuigs, it's being deprecated
<gQuigs> yup I know.. just clarifying the question sidi was asking...
<knome> 17:54  sidi: pitti, hi, regarding 
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2016-March/004790.html the  reason why xfce4-volumed is still using gst 0.10 is because the  GStreamer devs never ported the mixer interface to gst 1.0
<knome> 17:55  sidi: so it's not so much that the projects are dead, but rather  impossible to keep maintained. Still happy for xfce4-volumed to be  shot out of the repos though. I don't have time to work around the  mixer interface's absence and provide a working package.
<knome> gQuigs, ^
<knome> i don't think sidi was asking a question :)
<gQuigs> k, thanks :)
<knome> dinnertime
<knome> bbl
<slickymasterWork> flocculant, user-docs/C/settings-preferences.xml
<slickymasterWork> http://pastebin.com/dmmVCD6E
<slickymasterWork> extra space within the Settings Manager tags and typo in documentation at the final of the sentence 
<slickymasterWork> do you want to recommit or do you want me to correct it and then merge your MP?
<flocculant> merged the typo - the space isn't in settings-prefs.xml - it must be in wherever &wm-settings-menulibre lives
<flocculant> but it isn't on the docs > http://docs.xubuntu.org/1510/C/settings-preferences.html
<slickymasterWork> I'll check the xubuntu.ent file at home
<knome> sidi, you happen to remember the packagename for the PA equivalent?
<sidi> knome, I think the package named xfce4-volumed in Ubuntu currently is xfce4-volumed-pulse?
<knome> no
<knome> ~$ apt-cache search volumed
<knome> xfce4-volumed - volume keys daemon
<knome> pavucontrol
<knome> that's it
<knome> or is it the soundmenu indicator
<knome> i really don't know enough to know, but it's not xfce4-*
<ochosi> flocculant, knome, bluesabre: fixed the sidebar bug in greybird (already in git master)
<knome> nice
<flocculant> ochosi: \o/
<ochosi> bluesabre: sorry for making you go through the packaging again for a one-liner :( but really, this bug wasn't there when i checked about 2 weeks ago or so
<flocculant> it wasn't - definitely wasn't visible in disks when I used it last time - I would have said something :)
<ochosi> good, i feel less guilty now ;)
<flocculant> :)
<xubuntu27w> looking to make a custom xubuntu distro.  dd if=/usb/path of/path/to/file.iso doesn't work from live system and produces non-bootable archive.  do you know how to create an iso from a live session?
<xubuntu27w> or how to remaster xubuntu?
<ochosi> xubuntu27w: sounds like a lmgtfy question... have you checked the official docs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivativeDistroHowto
<xubuntu27w> yep
<xubuntu27w> it works fine with ubuntu
<xubuntu27w> but not xubuntu
<ochosi> right, well i haven't tried that ever
<ochosi> you could ask one of the derivatives, as there are a few
<ochosi> and if you fix your problem it#d always be good to know where you had to depart from the official docs
<ochosi> knome: what's the ETA on the community wallpaper contest?
<knome> ochosi, my plan is to fix the outstanding bugs over the weekend or monday the latest, then announce
<ochosi> sweet
<knome> if anyone of you want to draft the announcement mail/article...
<knome> also, please check the guidelines
<knome> you are even able to edit them when you log in to the contest site, so no need to pass through me
<knome> bbl ->
<slickymaster> thanks for uploading bluesabre 
<slickymaster> flocculant, there's something wrong with your MP
<slickymaster> did you actually tried to build it
<slickymaster> it isn't
<flocculant> slickymaster: builds fine here
<knome> slickymaster, what's the error for you?
<slickymaster> upon running the exo-open --launch WebBrowser index.html instead of getting 
<slickymaster> file:///home/slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/build/index.html in the browser
<slickymaster> I get http://index.html/
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> I sure as hell don't muck about with terminal commands to run a webpage ;)
<knome> "[exo] ./index.html" ?
<slickymaster> let me try it knome 
<slickymaster> yeap, that does it
<slickymaster> but that souldn't be necessary, or expected, should it
<knome> why not?
<knome> how would the browser know you want to open a file and not a website called "index.html" if you give it no clue about your intention?
<slickymaster> why yes?
<knome> it's a *web* browser, so browsing the *web* is the default option
<knome> ./ tells the path you want is relative, so it knows to look in the filesystem
<slickymaster> if I'm already in the foleder where the page is and I'm teeling the browser to just open it
<slickymaster> * folder
<knome> if you are in a directory where you have a file called "google.com", which one would you say the browser should open: the google website or your file?
<slickymaster> my point is that I never needed until now to give him the relative path
<slickymaster> what changed?
<slickymaster> if you branch the -docs last re. you don't have to give the relative path
<knome> i don't think it has anything to do with the docs
<knome> maybe the browser has changed the default action?
<slickymaster> just tried it with rev. 551
<slickymaster> no need to a relative path
<slickymaster> some broswer
<slickymaster> * same
<slickymaster> was just thinking in last paragraph of flocculant's commit msg
<slickymaster> is it possible that it can be related?
<slickymaster> just cirios
<slickymaster> * curious
<knome> what about it?
<knome> it seems to be valid markup
<knome> so it should produce valid markup
<knome> though "Edit Actions" needs to be wrapper in <guilabel>
<slickymaster> where are you seeing that knome â
<knome> in the last paragraph
<knome> on the LP diff, it's between lines 3-4
<knome> of that paragraph, that is
<knome> wait
<knome> this stretches
<knome> it's a few words after &appmenu;
<slickymaster> lol knome, afte &appmenu I see "Search Actions", not "Edit Actions"
<knome> slickymaster, in the last change mentioned in the diff?
<knome> are you hallucinating
<slickymaster> perhaps
<slickymaster> haven't eat since dinner yesterday
<knome> slickymaster, http://awesomescreenshot.com/0da5pdtmbf
<slickymaster> bah, you said 19:59  knome: though "Edit Actions" needs to be wrapper in <guilabel>
<knome> yes
<slickymaster> not Edit Applications
<knome> and you talked about Search Actions
<knome> ;)
<knome> whatever
<knome> i'm doing something else :P
<slickymaster> sometimes you just drive me crazy :P
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> slickymaster, that looks like a sweet spot for a potential low blow below the belt... driving...
<flocculant> anyway - whatever is in that last paragraph I didn't touch apart from the second t in documentation :)
<slickymaster> need to get some food
<slickymaster> flocculant, merged
<flocculant> slickymaster: ok cheers - afaik that's all :)
<slickymaster> just inclosed the Edit Applications within <guilabel> tgas
<slickymaster> * tags
<slickymaster> thanks for everything
<flocculant> welcome :)
<knome> the fish too?
<flocculant> absolutely
<knome> puckz, and hello, you might recognise me from the mailing list
<ochosi> weird, somehow document templates don't work for me in thunar..
<ochosi> added some files to the dir defined as template dir in .config/user-dirs.dirs, nothing shows in the context menu
<knome> that always was a bit weird; i remember it worked with the preset directories, but once those were removed, it kind of just stopped working...
<flocculant> bluesabre and I did talk about presets at the end of wily/beginning of this one - didn't get very far :)
<ochosi> yeah, meh
<ochosi> you can't rename the dir
<ochosi> somehow it must be hardcoded somewhere in thunar then
<ochosi> knome: i presume you don't have a finnish installation?
<ochosi> cause i wonder whether it would still have to be "Templates"
<knome> ochosi, i have a finnish user on my laptop, but i don't think i remember the password
<knome> but system-wide, no
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> anyway, it seems like it should take the one from the user-dirs.dirs file
<knome> yes
<knome> should
<flocculant> what's the problem there though? 
<knome> doesn't :P
<flocculant> :p
<flocculant> works fine here - can't be an issue then :p
<flocculant> well - with the 2 I have anyway
<knome> and did you have a bulgarian UI?
<flocculant> of course
<flocculant> is it that Templates ends up being called something else then? 
<flocculant> new to me this issue is :)
<knome> if it's translated, it's not working apparently
<knome> maybe
<knome> but if it's anything else than that, and even if that was configured in user-dirs.dirs, it doesn't work
<knome> that's what ochosi just reported
<flocculant> so if I change Templates to Templatess - make sure that  user-dirs.dirs corresponds, run xdg-user-dirs-update, rebooted and now I see templates in Templatess http://i.imgur.com/Hf7hTAQ.png
<flocculant> unless it was xdg-user-dirs-update --set TEMPLATES ~/Templatess
<flocculant> regardless - didn't work till I rebooted
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> if nothing else I learnt something :p
<knome> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-12
<caligariano> Hello, I was wondering if anyone knows how to make indicator-session work in Xubuntu? I think is a cool extension and looks very nice.
<dkessel> flocculant: i guess there is a bug for "gnome-software does not show up in whiskermenu" already?
<flocculant> dkessel: shows in live and installed - seems to have got lost in upgraded systems
<flocculant> so I'd not report it to be honest 
<bluesabre> seems so weird
<flocculant> bluesabre: hey there :)
<dkessel> it is there in my "upgraded some months ago" install...
<flocculant> dkessel: not in mine
<dkessel> also: good day :)
<bluesabre> hey guys
<flocculant> dkessel: yea - hi there :p
<flocculant> oh 
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> it's turned up
<flocculant> wish I'd looked before I hid it and unhid it ... 
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> so then
<flocculant> dkessel: it's not a bug - I see it in live, clean installs and this random upgraded thing :D
<bluesabre> sideloaded a .deb with gnome-software yesterday, surprised that it worked
<flocculant> oh good 
<flocculant> last time I tried that - fail ... 
<pavlushka> Hi every1!
<pavlushka> flocculant, filed two bugs, go mark it as duplicate, :|
<krytarik> pavlushka: You might want to give this a better read, ftm: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage :)
<pavlushka> krytarik, I have no idea about the package, so I selected "I dont know" but it auto marked it as "ubuntu-docs"
<krytarik> xubuntu-docs, actually.
<pavlushka> ya, krytarik, but I tried to search with my guess, got unlucky.
<pavlushka> krytarik, have u changed it to the right package?, in that way I can have some idea.
<krytarik> Also, reg. LP bug 1556433, is it actually booting during that time, or is it stuck before that?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1556433 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Booting is taking too long to start from grub" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1556433
<pavlushka>  I changed grub to no splash so I can see the logs, ya, it was stuck before that.
<pavlushka> krytarik, is the issue is about boot-systemd??
<krytarik> So nothing happens during that time at all?  Also, LP bug 1556438 would be xfce4-settings.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1556438 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Can't set my external display as primary" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1556438
<pavlushka> krytarik, like to add, after the boot started, it loaded much quicker than Ubuntu, there is a chance that the logs were stuck and appeared all at a time.
<krytarik> Yes, that's something different than not booting.
<pavlushka> krytarik, thanks for pointing the bug package topic
<pavlushka> krytarik, I am not sure. Are you?
<pavlushka> I should add it to the bug comment.
<krytarik> Depending on how the exact behavior is (logs?), it'd be grub2, linux, or systemd anyway.
<pavlushka> krytarik, may be.
<krytarik> pavlushka: To add some useful system information to the display settings bug report, try running "ubuntu-bug -u 1556438" on the affected system.
<krytarik> (Usually, you'd have run "ubuntu-bug xfce4-settings" in the first place.)
<pavlushka> krytarik, first place thing done.
<krytarik> Huh?  Well, you already reported the bug, so now you can only amend it - with the first command, for example.  Also, please have a look at the tag stuff here: http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-bugs.html#qa-bugs-tags
<pavlushka> krytarik, One more thing, the alt+~ key is not working for same group of windows.
<pavlushka> krytarik, knock, knock.
<krytarik> Yes?
<pavlushka> krytarik, noticed the thing?  the alt+~ key is not working for same group of windows.
<krytarik> pavlushka: The default keyboard shortcut for that is Super + Tab in Xubuntu - but, you can change that in "Window Manager â Keyboard".
<pavlushka> krytarik, thanks, I didn't know that, I use ubuntu, just volunteering Xubuntu testing, but I might get stuck with it for it being light.
<pavlushka> krytarik, but tell me one thing please, which one is lighter? Lubuntu or Xubuntu?
<krytarik> Btw, since it's currently only us two talking here, no need to ping every time. :P
<krytarik> Lubuntu.
<krytarik> But at a cost, of course.
<pavlushka> I didn't know that its called ping, the addressing thing. got it.
<pavlushka> what cost,?
<pavlushka> pinging krytarik, what cost Lubuntu paid for being light?
<krytarik> It's actually *you* paying it. :D
<krytarik> In the sense of features, and easeness of configuration, for example.
<krytarik> But that's off topic for here.
<pavlushka> So,Lubuntu has less features and less configurable?
<krytarik> I didn't say the latter.
<pavlushka> "easeness of configuration" indicates what then?
<krytarik> Having to edit text files to change settings, for example.
<pavlushka> not bad, like that!!!
<krytarik> lol
 * krytarik too
 * pavlushka text based conf feels easier to me
<dkessel> struggling with a translation here - what is the long term for "canonical IS" ?
<dkessel> i.e. - what is the long form of "IS"?
<MagicSponge> information systems ?
<ochosi> flocculant: so it worked for you with a different templates folder?
<ochosi> i guess in that case we could add those templates and then wait for translations
<ochosi> bluesabre: any thoughts on the above? i'd actually just add empty files that match the pattern, e.g. "touch Templates/LibreOffice.ttt". i guess for translating that string we would have to add a first-run startup script or something..
<bluesabre> ochosi: not been keeping up
<knome> dkessel, "Internet Services", i guess
<knome> dkessel, if it's in the docs, i would just refer to it as "Canonical IS"
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-13
<bluesabre> knome: I missed where this came up, [xubuntu-dev] Remove xfce4-volumed from the seed: TODO
<knome> bluesabre, the package is removed from debian because gst0.10; we're not using it either (aiui), so no need not to remove from our seed
<knome> bluesabre, ...tell me if i'm wrong
<bluesabre> knome: ok, just missed the conversation about it
<bluesabre> removing it will not break keyboard media keys I'd hope
<bluesabre> I'll test it out
<knome> yeah
<bluesabre> looks like volume keys don't work without it
<bluesabre> unless you're using xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
<bluesabre> which we're not.....
<bluesabre> knome: tracker still has issues in chrome, applying any filters just resets to the main page
<bluesabre> couple js errors
<bluesabre> oh wait
<bluesabre> should I be looking at tracker. or dev.
<bluesabre> dev works
<knome> :)
<knome> got to go to bed, ttyl
<pavlushka> Hi every1`!!!
<pavlushka> knome, flocculant , krytarik ??? anyone??
<pavlushka> hi dkessel !!!!
<pavlushka> I am from UTC+6, anyone there???
<pavlushka> need some help
<ochosi> bluesabre: i guess it's too late to switch to xfpm 1.6.0 (just released). do we have that leaky patch for xfpm 1.4 yet?
<ali1234> my screen is locking even though i don't want it to and have disabled it in the prefs
<ali1234> also, when i unlock it i have a dialog that says "Authentication is required to change your own user data"
<ali1234> and i have to click cancel on it about 100 times to make it go away
<ali1234> do you think these are two separate bugs?
<ali1234> they both started happening at the same time
<ali1234> but i never locked my screen before this bug, so they might be unrelated
<ali1234> i'll report them separately, can always mark duplicate
<krytarik> ali1234: LP bug 1512002.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1512002 in policykit-1-gnome (Ubuntu) "Annoying dialog "Authentication is required to change your own user data"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512002
<ali1234> ah thanks
<ali1234> that's the one
<ali1234> every few days? lol no, it happens every single time the screen is locked for any length of time more than a few minutes
<krytarik> Yep, the description is kind of misleading at that.
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1556575 is the other one i just reported
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1556575 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Screen locks even though I don't want it to" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> my guess would be it's related to lightdm-gtk-greeter asking for the user's wallpaper somehow (or a similar setting)
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-messages/+bug/1192300
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1192300 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "prompts for permissions on startup when username is both local & networkauth" [Undecided,Invalid]
<ali1234> except that there is no network authentication in my case
<flocculant> ochosi: yep - it still is - I didn't get around to changing it back 
<flocculant> ochosi: don't know what you did with greybird ... 
<flocculant> but it works :p
<ochosi> ali1234: for me it was indicator-messages (i had the same issues with polkit dialogs spawning all over the place)
<ali1234> yeah, it's definitely messages
<ali1234> i added it to the bug, maybe someone will see it
<ali1234> if not i will ask #ud tomorrow
<ali1234> there was an old bug where it happens if you use a remote login server and your local UID does not match the remote UID, but i am not using anything like that
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i had that setup, fixed the uid locally and the issue persisted
<ochosi> so yeah, different/new bug
<cosimo> hello
<cosimo> Daniel Kessel, thanks for directing me here!
<cosimo> I followed your link in the Xubuntu mailing list that leads to the translation 
<flocculant> hi cosimo - nice to see you turn up :)
<cosimo> Hi there! This is my first time getting involved in a project like this. My nanme is Cosimo, I am italian, living in Catalonia for many years. I have a computer company (service, selling and repair computers)
<cosimo> I do install Linux in many of my customer's pc (Especially in those who come with obsolete unlicensed pc`s)
<cosimo> First started with Ubuntu, then moved to Lubuntu, and now I am testing Xubuntu 16.04 in order to offer it to all my customers
<flocculant> sounds great :)
<cosimo> I noticed that many strings aren't translated to Catalan yet, so I decided to get involved and help the community to translate from English to Catalan
<flocculant> yea I saw the mail
<cosimo> so... Hello all :)
<flocculant> there are a few who'll be able to help you out with translating - but it is the weekend and it's a bit quiet 
<flocculant> I'm not one who'd be able to though ;) I'd just point you were Daniel did 
<cosimo> No problem, I can show up frequently to try to meet them up
<flocculant> awesome :)
<cosimo> I am already reading all the steps and documentation, so, thanks to all!
<flocculant> a lot of us are European time
<cosimo> great
<bluesabre> ochosi: is the leak fixed in 1.6, I though the report said it was discovered in 1.5.2 and also in 1.4.4
<bluesabre> ochosi, ali1234: I think that screen locking issue is specifically in light-locker. I use xfpm + xflock + gnome-screensaver and it does not auto-lock
<ochosi> bluesabre: two different leaks. the one in 1.6 is not in xfpm and the one in 1.4 has a fix
<bluesabre> oh goodie
<bluesabre> link? I'll package it up today
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<ochosi> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12367
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12367 in General "PM plugin leaks memory" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> that's the one with the bug in gdbus
<ochosi> affecting 1.6
<ochosi> 1.4 doesn't use gdbus yet
<bluesabre> hey flocculant
<bluesabre> ochosi: and link for the 1.4 fix?
<knome> pavlushka, if you need help with something, it's better to just ask the question
<knome> bluesabre, sidi: luisbg said there's a mixer interface in gst1.0, and that he might look into xfce4-volumed
<pavlushka> knome, copy that.
<bluesabre> knome: alrighty
<bluesabre> knome: we could potentially abandon the sound indicator for the pulseaudio plugin, but it does not have much testing and we're late in the cycle
<knome> mh
<knome> you also should likely talk about your test and media keys not working with sakrecoer on #us-d
<bluesabre> for a bit of background, does sakrecoer believe them to work without volumed?
<knome> yeah, he tested that and said it works
<bluesabre> yay
<bluesabre> knome: commented
<bluesabre> we'll see where it goes from here :)
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> flocculant: got some volume keys on a keyboard?
<knome> works for me on laptop
<knome> but do you need desktop testing?
<bluesabre> knome: as in, removed xfce4-volumed, logged out, back in
<bluesabre> ?
<knome> no
<knome> :P
<knome> wait a sen
<knome> sec
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: nope - sorry
<bluesabre> (and no xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin in the panel)
<knome> bluesabre, ..no, not worky without
<flocculant> bluesabre: I lied ... can try with the laptop - but looks like it's not needed 
<sakrecoer> greetings! regarding xfce4-volumed removal, it does work here and if i might provide with any log or anything just let me know. meanwhile i'll park my irc user here ! looking forward to read you
<bluesabre> thanks sakrecoer
<bluesabre> not really sure where or how to debug that
<bluesabre> tried using xev to see keypresses, but they're not picked up it seems if something is listening to them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgmUvrAWvRE&feature=youtu.be
<sakrecoer> bluesabre: my bad, volume keys are NOT working... :/ i checked with all the sliders and didn't focus enough on what you wrote
<bluesabre> ah, good to know :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: so I completely lost focus on this - why the worry about xfce4-volumed ? 
<bluesabre> flocculant: I asked the same thing to knome yesterday
<bluesabre> 21:10	<bluesabre>	knome: I missed where this came up, [xubuntu-dev] Remove xfce4-volumed from the seed: TODO
<bluesabre> apparently its getting dropped in debian since its gst0.10, so we were investigating that
<bluesabre> but I believe its getting dropped in debian because the pulseaudio plugin is a suitable replacement there
<flocculant> aah right
<ochosi> bluesabre: this one would have to be backported: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/commit/?id=6eaf8f868ed9ed8018385e16a92eaacef3c32a9d 
<ochosi> eric_the_idiot: correct me if i'm wrong ;)
<bluesabre> ochosi: yay
<flocculant> bluesabre: ... and I've been reading this thread https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2016-March/004790.html 
<flocculant> obviously not very proactively 
<flocculant> cos I completely forgot I'd read it :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: aha
<bluesabre> knome: so, is luisbg going to look into the port?
<bluesabre> knome: or should we strongly consider moving the the pulseaudio plugin if we are the only gst0.10 blocker?
<krytarik> knome: Just noticed, can you please update the two 'wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu' links here to point to the Contributor Docs instead now?: http://xubuntu.org/contribute/documentation  (yes, they are being redirected already)
<pjotter> knome: For what it's worth.. This is what I was working on: http://i.imgur.com/TtlXHnr.png?1
<pjotter> If there still is a need (and time) for it, just let me know
<pjotter> Here's another impression/scetch: http://i.imgur.com/wdhbPNW.png?1
<ochosi> bluesabre: why does volumed need gst0.10? isn't it using pulseaudio instead of gst..?
<ochosi> bluesabre: maybe this is a packaging mistake or didn't mr:pouit port it to use pulseaudio at some point..? (or am i completely mixing things up now?)
<pjot_downstairs> knome: Are you online?
<knome> bluesabre, luisbg is on #us-d... or at least was, you should talk to him ther
<knome> bluesabre, +e
<pjotter> hi knome
<knome> hey pjotter 
<pjotter> I posted some of my scribbling here a while ago. Did you get them?
<knome> pjotter, re: your question, as i said before, i already drew the xerus; the UI freeze was last thursdat
<knome> *thursday
<knome> let me dig that up
<pjotter> Oh I see
<pjotter> Too bad... better luck next time then
<knome> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html/download/head:/xerus_art.png-20160310140738-p8t66o10hnqfrs8g-20/xerus_art.png
<pjotter> Its cool :)
<knome> happy to hear you like it
<knome> and now i also checked the #xubuntu backlog
<knome> on satisfaction, it's good enough
<knome> the tail could be more realistic looking and the limbs could have gotten more attention
<pjotter> It's a pity... I really didn't have much time I'm afraid.
<knome> that is, if one really had a lot of time to spend on it
<pjotter> I am just learning how to draw in vectors. I'm guessing that is what you used too?
<knome> yep
<pjotter> Maybe I can contribute for a future release. Losts of funny animals coming up.
<knome> yes, by all means
<pjotter> What did you think about the scetches. These were just some rough ideas I had.
<pjotter> I wanted to do something with semi-transparent overlapping swirly lines. 
<knome> krytarik, done
<knome> pjotter, i like the style, though i'm not sure how well that would fit in the slideshow context
<knome> pjotter, and personally, i'm not sure if i like the "look the xerus from below" POV
<pjotter> What's pov?
<bluesabre> ochosi: actually, yes, you're right
<bluesabre> http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/xfce4-volumed
<bluesabre> https://packages.debian.org/sid/xfce4-volumed
 * ochosi bows
<knome> pjotter, point of view
<pjotter> Ah ok! :D
<pjotter> I thought it made it look more tough.
<knome> the xubuntu brand isn't very tough generally
<knome> our mascot is a mouse
<pjotter> Well...
<pjotter> I can draw a tough mouse
<knome> hah :D
<ochosi> mice == cute != qt
<knome> what i mean is that we aren't actually pursuing a very "tough" brand
<pjotter> I understand
<bluesabre> oh, thats annoying, how much archive conversation happens on the ubuntu-desktop ML instead of ubuntu-devel https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2016-March/004790.html
<knome> though "not tough" doesn't mean we can't be elegant..
<pjotter> How would you describe Xubuntu in relation to the other brands of Ubuntu?
<bluesabre> not subscribed to desktop
<knome> pjotter, i think many of the flavors are aiming for a "professional" brand, and if there is any flavor (no pun intended) to it, it usually leans more towards "playful" than "tough"
<knome> pjotter, for example, see the kubuntu website: http://kubuntu.org/
<knome> that's a bit more playful than we are aiming for, but i think it fits well with the colorful plasma stuff
<knome> pjotter, talking of websites, the xubuntu website could do with some illustrations...
<pjotter> Alright
<pjotter> What kind?
<knome> pjotter, for some kind of general direction (which totally isn't set to stone though), see the front page and the "get involved" page
<pjotter> yes
<pjotter> The two talking heads?
<knome> that, and on the front page, the desktop/laptop
<pjotter> Are these the only illustrations on Xubuntu.org?
<knome> yse
<knome> i haven't had much time to think about more illustrations
<knome> one place where we could totally use some of them is the feature tour
<pjotter> Well, I certainly could do that. What kind of look/feel would be appropriate?
 * ochosi likes the talking heads (the band)
<pjotter> Great band, ochosi. Me too :)
<ochosi> bluesabre, knome: would you consider it worth a UIFe to get some refreshed mimetype icons for elementary-xfce?
<knome> pjotter, trying to limit this is little as possible, i think a clean look (like the current one, eg. no "chalk" texture for strokes) would be good
<knome> pjotter, also, if possible, since these are used on the website, it would be great that they didn't need to be in a "container"
<knome> pjotter, eg. all lines end up naturally "inside" the illustration
<knome> pjotter, do you understand what i'm trying to say?
<pjotter> Not 100%
<pjotter> What do you mean by container?
<ochosi> a visual frame
<ochosi> that holds the animal
<pjotter> A right
<ochosi> a "cage" ;)
<pjotter> No lines around it
<pjotter> I could take the mouse as a startingpont and work from there?
<knome> well, the thing is
<knome> we likely want the illustrations to have something to do with the content
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'm not opposed, slickymaster and knome would be the ones most likely to complain
<knome> but yeah, you can totally copy the mouse, i'll even send you the svg
<bluesabre> knome, flocculant, ochosi: responded, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2016-March/004793.html
<bluesabre> ochosi: thanks for the tip
<knome> ochosi, and yeah, not opposing to land the icon stuff
<pjotter> No need. Maybe I can come up with my own version of the Xubuntu mouse. I mean... the thing isn't set in stone, right?
<knome> exactly
<knome> i'm open to anything
<ochosi> bluesabre: which tip again?
<knome> just remember that it's not worth to make completely final sketches before showing stuff to others, ochosi is the worst pixel pusher
<knome> ochosi, of the iceberg
<bluesabre> ochosi: re xfce4-volumed pulseaudio
<ochosi> bluesabre: ah sure, np. i'm happy i still remember stuff ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<pjotter> Et voila: http://i.imgur.com/3VDwlqV.png
<pjotter> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: cheers
<knome> pjotter, not bad!
<knome> the mouse looks a bit sick though...
<knome> being so blue and all
<pjotter> He ate some bad cheese, I guess
<knome> but we could definitely go with something like that for the help slide
<knome> is this drawn in vector?
<pjotter> No, just by hand, scanned and coloured on the comp
<knome> awwh :(
<pjotter> I can make it into vector
<knome> yeah, i think that would be the best for future considerations
<knome> but don't mind doing that yet
<knome> (unless you want the challenge)
<knome> i think the mouse could be gray
<knome> as mouses often are
<ochosi> pjotter: not bad, that mouse!
<knome> that's a more subtle color anyway and thus i'd think it'd work better for the website
<knome> yep, i'm imagining this on the help and support page
<ochosi> knome: what? mouses?!
<knome> flipped horizontally maybe
<pjotter> But Xubuntu mostly has a blueish theme?
 * ochosi calls the language police on knome 
<knome> hm??
<knome> pjotter, yeah, but not everything has to be blue :)
<ochosi> knome: ehrm, mice? :)
<pjotter> But it's THE Xubuntu mouse. It HAS to be blue!!! :S
<knome> ochosi, there's only one mouse in the image...
<knome> pjotter, gray with a blue hint?
<knome> or: a hint of blue
<pjotter> Maybe I can draw a little phrygian white hat on his head?
<knome> i'm imagining a hat on the head, but that makes me think the mouse has woken up at the middle of the night
<knome> a blue bow tied to the tail?
<knome> if we want something blue...
<knome> pjotter, re: bitmap/vector, one thing vector is so much better is naturally scaling; but not only in the most obvious sense; sometimes we might want to change the image size but keep the same stroke width, and the vector image allows for that easily
<pjotter> Maybe this will explain the blueish color a bit better: http://i.imgur.com/1Hu5tl4.png
<knome> omg
<knome> xubuntu is a family-friendly distro :P
<pjotter> right
<pjotter> :p
<knome> you should join #xubuntu-offtopic though
<knome> (it's family-friendly too, but i can copy-paste you a discussion there)
<ochosi> harhar, nice one pjotter 
<pjotter> No, it's fine.
<ochosi> knome: obviously that mouse is drnking juice!
<pjotter> Yeah... applejuice.
<knome> clearly
<ochosi> it's just a very happy mouse
<ochosi> happy and sleepy
<knome> hmm...
<pjotter> :D
<knome> not sure i'd buy apple juice that made me that "happy"
<knome> i like this artwork direction though
<ochosi> +1
<pjotter> This is just a bit of fun ofcourse. I can think about a more serious mouse for the Xubuntu website.
<knome> yep
<knome> :)
<knome> the first one is pretty close i think
<knome> just the color...
<knome> and would be nice to have it in real vector of course
<ochosi> we can always use this "drunken" mouse for mails we reject from the -devel ml
<pjotter> Although I am pretty happy with it;s shape as it is. It kind of resembles the offical xubuntu logo, only in cartoonish kind of way.
<knome> yeah, the shape is good
<ochosi> pjotter: re: tail do mice really have those rings on the tail? i thought only rats have those (not that it matters too much for a cartoon representation)
<pjotter> I don't know. What are they anyway? Rimples in the skin? Maybe both mice and rats have them but it;s probably more profound in rats.
<ochosi> yeah, plus the pink color for the tail of a white lab-rat
<knome> pjotter, i told you ochosi is a pixel pusher
<ochosi> yup, that's me o/
<knome> though props for that, i would say without such a tight "opponent" as ochosi, the artwork and general looks in xubutnu wouldn't be as good as it is now
<bluesabre> ochosi, flocculant: since clutter is pretty broken in parole right now, going to disable the clutter video output and change default back to xv
<bluesabre> I don't imagine I'll be changing it back for the duration of the LTS
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i guess that's the only reasonable thing to do
<ochosi> what about mugshot though?
<knome> lazy bluesabre 
<bluesabre> ochosi: not got a solution there yet...
<ochosi> ali1234: since you upgraded from 15.04 to 15.10, what version of xfpm were you using in 15.04? maybe there are some left-over settings from light-locker-settings?
<bluesabre> knome: gstreamer/clutter is hard :(
<ali1234> ochosi: the default one
<ali1234> i did a clean install about 2 weeks before 15.10 was released, and then upgraded
<ochosi> ali1234: iirc 15.10 was the first with xfpm with light locker's settings integrated
<knome> bluesabre, yeah right! (:
<flocculant> bluesabre: that makes sense
<bluesabre> flocculant: yup, just giving you a heads up
<ochosi> no more reasonable  testing parole video in vbox then
<bluesabre> ochosi: yup
<bluesabre> it was good for a short while
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> :'(
<knome> ochosi, btw, i should poke you again about the media manager article serie
<bluesabre> Unit193: figured out the answer to a question I asked you forever ago... "gpg-agent --daemon --sh"
<bluesabre> (saw it running on my work computer which I upgraded from trusty)
<ochosi> knome: yeah, then again there are so many other important things to do
<knome> ochosi, this is important; we will not ship any media manager and it's sensible to talk about the alternatives the team uses
<knome> tbh, it likely takes 10-15 mins of your time
<bluesabre> just like being back at university, right?
<knome> hah
<bluesabre> ochosi: if you want to merge in the new icons for 16.04, just update the xubuntu-artwork bzr and let me know, we'll work on the UIFe
<ochosi> bluesabre: that's awesome
<ochosi> i'll review and merge tomorrow
<bluesabre> great, thanks
<bluesabre> we'll also confirm with slickymaster
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> but mimetypes should be few and far between in the docs
<ochosi> do we have any mimetype icons in the docs?
<ochosi> yeah :)
<knome> no
<bluesabre> ochosi: guessing you'd probably have to so some redraws for small sizes though, right?
<bluesabre> or, the sizes that are used outside of elementary
<cosimo> Hello. Anyone knows how long does it take for a translation team/mailing list, to answer an admission request?
<knome> depends on the team
<knome> hopefully not too long
<bluesabre> ochosi: portions of the patch that apply for 1.4.4: https://paste.ubuntu.com/15379748/
<cosimo> thanks knome, I'm waiting for about 20 hours ;)
<cosimo> too impatient maybe...
<knome> cosimo, i wouldn't be surprised if it took days, even weeks
<knome> ...unfortunately...
<bluesabre> cosimo: progress slows to a grinding halt particularly on weekends
<cosimo> thanks guys, is waiting time for me then. 
<bluesabre> ochosi: so, what's the plan for xfce4-power-manager 1.6.x, is that going to be the stable, supported series for a while?
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-06
<chatter29> hey guys
<chatter29> allah is doing
<chatter29> sun is not doing allah is doing
<chatter29> to accept islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except allah and muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
<krytarik> chatter29: Howdy.
<chatter29> fine
<sorinello_> he's spamming a lot of IRC channels
<Unit193> He does that.
<flocculant> bluesabre: verification-did for xenial - not done yakkety - would have to do an install first
<flocculant> bluesabre: done yakkety
<flocculant> not too positive about 1 person commenting being enough though ;)
<flocculant> maybe we should do some shouting out on various outlets? 
<knome> bluesabre, ping?
 * knome points ochosi and bluesabre at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/zesty/revision/320
<knome> bluesabre, plz check if i messed something up ;)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [zesty] r320 Add wallpaper for 17.04.... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<krytarik> knome: You forgot to update the Plymouth one. :>
<knome> did i?
<knome> ugh.
<knome> at least i had the export path ready there...
<knome> will do that nexty next
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello seany
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hi pasi
<bluesabre> heya flocculant 
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-07
<knome> now that missing file...
<knome> aaand that should be done
<knome> bluesabre, plz double-check stuff, then proceed to uploading
<knome> and didn't i say midnightish UTC :P
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> thanks knome
 * knome proeeds to eating carrots
<knome> +c
<Unit193> Frozen?
<knome> nope
<bluesabre> Chilly?
<knome> from the fridge
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [zesty] r321 Update the Plymouth wallpaper... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<bluesabre> Fridgey
<bluesabre> knome, looks good to me
<knome> goodie
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [zesty] r322 Update elementary-xfce, update plymouth text theme to 17.04,... (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [zesty] r323 And include all the new icons (by Sean Davis)
<pleia2> Perigee: they asked me to chime in re: videos/screencasts, I think it's a good idea but I haven't had time to brainstorm exactly what folks would want
<Perigee> I figured I can come up with a list to start and email back the dev list
<pleia2> that would be fantastic
<Perigee> I feel Xubuntu could do really well for newbies, so basic functions everyday tasks would be a good start. Could always get into the heavier stuff later on.
 * pleia2 nods
<Perigee> Also, as a side note... I've spent most of the evening here tweaking a Hexchat theme using the Xubuntu colors from the Terminal
<pleia2> nice :)
<Perigee> Should I send that to the dev list?
<pleia2> go for it
<Perigee> Looks pretty nice if I say so myself
<flocculant> sigh ...
<flocculant> bluesabre: sowwy :( icons missing from sgt games menu bug 1670605
<ubottu> bug 1670605 in sgt-launcher (Ubuntu) "Icons missing from game menu's" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1670605
<flocculant> knome: ooooh blue \o/
<bluesabre> flocculant, they might have been dropped, the newest sgt-puzzles moved to gtk3
<bluesabre> try launching that game via command line
<flocculant> bluesabre: same deal - no icon - for any of them
<bluesabre> flocculant, indeed then, they were dropped with the gtk3 migration
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> didn't think about that - changed bug to -puzzles
<bluesabre> flocculant, thanks... probably won't get fixed since menu item icons are deprecated
<bluesabre> flocculant, ochosi, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-notifyd/0.3.5-1
<Unit193> Except: https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-notifyd/commit/?id=f8691b209d17748a768a5ce199a2f05890acd78e - https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-notifyd/commit/?id=16660fa212641ea15871e792744cc97f03c91968 - https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-notifyd/commit/?id=415cd921717dff745eaf8dc01d32f1c1772dee42 - https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-notifyd/commit/?id=1e1b6b9cf9cee1e5355a3e5746950a63c16a15bd
<bluesabre> Unit193, those look handy
<bluesabre> ochosi, bugfix release inbound?
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i plan to do one very soon. i presume it would help to do it very soon..?
<ochosi> (if so, what's the ideal timeline)
<flocculant> as the kids apparently say now 
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: you about at all? I know work has been a bit meh - want to change qa page to the draft - waiting on you buddy ;)
<flocculant> is what I meant to say :D
<bluesabre> ochosi, before the 20th would be best
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-08
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, please feel free to send me a reminder in case i overlook that
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  yup about... sorry mate.. has been sh^^ty  will try and get that sorted asap mate.. infact looking now
<akxwi-dave> looks and reads really well...  although the title needs adjusting... ð
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: it's intended to replace http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa - so title is just a placeholder for now
<akxwi-dave> lol I gathered.. was attempting to make a joke.. :-(
<flocculant> ha ha - been a long day here 
<flocculant> qa page updated 
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello seany
<bluesabre> hiya knome
<Unit193> knomey.
<knome> Unitey.
 * genii sips
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-09
<flocculant> knome slickymasterWork - thoughts on adding a new slide to the slideshow - 'new stuffs we've got'
<knome> flocculant, i'd rather add a slide for such things in a non-generic way once we have new stuff that is worth mentioning :)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-10
<knome> Perigee, i should have been replying your xchat mail, but briefly; i think after a quick review i can see any reason why we couldn't ship it with the ISO
<Perigee> knome: It's quite a quiet mailing list. :)
<knome> yeah, even more reason that it shouldn't have been so long with no answer from me
<Perigee> knome: I think that sounds great. How do you plan on shipping it if hexchat isn't installed?
<Unit193> And why, if hexchat isn't installed? :P
<knome> i think "just install it at a location where hexchat can find it when it is installed"
<Perigee> I'm on board however you think is best. Glad you like it
<knome> well, i don't use hexchat myself, but i think things like that are a "good service" for our users, should they want to have a more unified look
<ochosi> Unit193: hmm, i'm hitting the "garcon-gtk3-1 >= 0.5.0... not found" error on zesty (i think flocculant had that issue too) with the xfce4-gtk3 ppa enabled. i think the package in ubuntu is called garcon-2, not gtk3, correct?
<ochosi> if so, what's up with that?
<ochosi> i mean do you expect the panel to change the package name in configure.ac.in?
<ochosi> also, i'm wondering why this is working for me on yakkety, the package there is also called libgarcon-2-0
<flocculant> I grabbed garcon from the gtk3 ppa - also appear to have -1-0, -1-0-dev, -2-0,-2-0-dev and common installed - likely I just installed anything I could find with the name in it
<flocculant> ochosi: building the panel issue? 
<ochosi> but it's still not working for you in zesty, correct?
<ochosi> yeah
<flocculant> no - it is working for me in zesty 
<ochosi> i'm currently working on a docker image which will pull the latest panel from master and start it up
<ochosi> so we can do reliable, reproducible testing
<flocculant> oooh
<ochosi> in a semi-automated way, without VMs
<flocculant> I have panel master in a vm 
<flocculant> keeping the same vm for any of this testing xfce stuff
<ochosi> yeah, makes sense
<ochosi> but i want to enable anyone to set this up automagically
<flocculant> yea
<ochosi> also, the dockerfile will document the build depends
<ochosi> and the build process
<flocculant> I'd be interested to see how that all works - and how to create them - and all of the things :p
<ochosi> i'll show you when i'm done, no worries
<ochosi> dockerfiles are very readable anyway
<ochosi> no black magic
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/ya7fwSL.png
<ochosi> that's my docker container already running
<flocculant> nice :)
<flocculant> ftr - same version here in the vm :)
<Unit193> garcon-2.pc and garcon-gtk3-1.pc are in there, now the question is if those are missing any deps.
<Unit193> garcon_api_version=1?
<Unit193> I presume you have libglib2.0-dev and libxfce4ui-2-dev, as well as the gtk3 headers?
<flocculant> iirc I had to install garcon, 4ui and wnck to get panel building
<knome> i'm wondering if we should enable some kind of Q&A stuff on the website
<knome> so people could send their (support) questions in easily
<knome> we might want to edit the format of the questions
<ali1234> just send them to askubuntu?
<ali1234> (and then actually check the xfce tag there from time to time)
<knome> well, that's one option, but tbh, the xfce/xubuntu related/specific questions disappear in there
<knome> and ultimately, we could estimate whether the answers should be "just answers", or FAQ articles on some larger subjects, or even in the documentation
<knome> the idea i have/had is that the questions aren't public unless person X from group Y has checked them
<knome> so not a free forum for all to contribute
<ali1234> so curated, like the new tutorials.ubuntu.com
<knome> yep
<ali1234> nothing wrong with doing that, but i think it compliments AU rather than replacing it
<knome> yep
<knome> indeed
<ali1234> currently there is only one open question on AU tagged xfce or xubuntu
<ali1234> and it has a +50 bounty
<knome> heh
<ali1234> and it's really specific and technical
<knome> the other question related to this is "can people with issues with xubuntu find askubuntu well enough"
<ali1234> they can if you link to it on xubuntu.com...
<knome> we do
<knome> expect only on xubuntu.org ;)
<ali1234> heh... well, if they can't find that, then they won't find this new thing either i think
<knome> unless the new thing is literally *on* the site
<knome> "type your question here"
<knome> big box
<knome> :)
<ali1234> you have to look really hard to find the AU link
<knome> i know, that's partly because it isn't one of the primarily suggested outlets for xubuntu support
<knome> maybe it should be above launchpad answers, and maybe even above forums - though people will disagree with that
<knome> but no way it should be presented as more important/better place than IRC or the mailing lists
<ali1234> in terms of support i think it should
<ali1234> definitely LP answers
<ali1234> that's more for developer questions
<knome> yes... and i don't think xubuntu developers hang out there
<ali1234> maybe not in intent, but in practice you won't get answers to noob questions there
<Unit193> I'd display those last ones differently.
<knome> Unit193, feel free to propose :)
<Unit193> More bullet point style.
<knome> this is constantly evolving, and we're better than 8 years ago...
<ali1234> i once got into an argument with someone on the ubuntu discourse (which no longer exists) about how ubuntu support is stratified and that is not a bad thing
<knome> yeah, sure
<ali1234> like, you don't go to #ubuntu-devel and ask how to install ubuntu
<knome> i mean, obviously different people need different kinds of methods
<ali1234> yeah, totally
<knome> tbh, i'd probably drop the community help wiki from that list
<knome> that's near dead, and if there is any content that we think is worth saving, we should probably find a better venue for it
<knome> and i've looked through it a few times and there's not really much touching xubuntu at all
<ali1234> i think it's okay if more advanced channels like IRC or LP answers are buried on the bottom of a FAQ page, but 1st line support, whatever you decide that is, should be front and centre as you say
<knome> though IRC is the best way to get answers fast, and we even have a page with webchat, so connecting is no problem
<flocculant> I'd be inclined to move irc down - people ask things and more often than not they're gone long long before anyone answers
<knome> documentation obviously should come first - because if we've taken the time to document something, it's probably something very generic
<ali1234> +1... ask and leave happens all the time
<flocculant> ali1234: yup - especially when nick is xubuntu1234 
<knome> well again, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/.loganalysis/
<ali1234> oh... what is that?
<knome> the number of nicks joined #xubuntu every month
<flocculant> knome: I assume that's logins
<knome> yep
<knome> the next step is to check how many of them spoke
<knome> and asked a question, etc.
<flocculant> not logins answered or logins lasting longer than 5 minutes :)
<knome> nope, not yet
<ali1234> grouped by how they connected?
<knome> yep
<ali1234> what are "documentation" / "online documentation"?
<ali1234> how do you determine those?
<knome> the docs shipped with xubuntu / the docs at docs.xubuntu.org
<knome> the irc link is on the startpage of those
<ali1234> yes, but how do you tell? they all link to a slightly different variation on the web chat?
<knome> yep
<ali1234> i see, clever
<knome> they prefill the nick with xubuntu..? where .. is random numbers and ? is the outlet used to connect from
<knome> of course if somebody changes their nick, we can't follow them
<ali1234> that's pretty clever. do the other flavours do this?
<knome> i don't think so
<flocculant> we started doing it a couple of years back iirc
<knome> also unknown is when the 10th symbol is not one of the preset ones, most often a number - pre-2014 we just had xubuntu... as the nick template
<ali1234> i'm surprised that shipped docs are so big. i always go straight to google
<knome> well it's very visible on the whisker menu
<knome> so people who might not be so technically inclined, or who don't have strong google-fu might prefer that
<flocculant> I'd hazard a guess that anyone in here is unlikely to use our docs - just memory instead ;)
<knome> well, maybe
<flocculant> s/anyone/most
<knome> at least not use the local docs, then press the irc button :P
<flocculant> :)
<knome> so again, this does not register nicks that don't match the pattern
<flocculant> you see me sometimes as tracker...
<knome> maybe one of the next steps is to figure out how many nicks that only join once or twice per month and who aren't registered to nickserv (to try to rule out regulars) join and add those to the totals
<ali1234> i can tell you what else they do...
<ali1234> i'm not in #xubuntu but i'm in #ubuntu-mate
<ali1234> and i'm nearly always the first alphabetical list
<knome> heh
<knome> right
<ali1234> i get about 10-20 PMs from randoms every day
<ali1234> always from there
<knome> so maybe we should make Unit193 set up a bit with the name aaaaaaargh
<knome> and catch the questions there
<flocculant> ha ha 
<ali1234> they always just say "hi" and then quit
<knome> well at least that's some kind of stats too ;)
<flocculant> 300 idiots this month ...
<knome> so maybe we should check if nick X output more than 3 lines
<knome> and then differentiate those per outlet too
<flocculant> knome: maybe also check if nick x outputs the same string more than once? 
<knome> also see if any of them include a question mark or some trigger words
<knome> flocculant, to try to gather if they are not answered in the first 3 seconds? ;)
<ali1234> you'd want to give that bot voice as well, different clients sort in different ways
<knome> that was only a half-serious suggestion, but maybe.
<flocculant> knome: some wait a little bit longer - guessing they repeat when they seem someone else join
<knome> flocculant, yeah, that doesn't help much
<ali1234> it was half-seriously considered on #ubuntu-mate too, after i complained :)
<knome> ;)
<knome> i'd say it's not a huge amount of people who repeat actually
<knome> anyway
<knome> the sauna is hot
<knome> bbiab
<flocculant> :)
<knome> will hack a bit on the script then
<ochosi> flocculant: so this is what it looks like: https://github.com/ochosi/xfce-test/tree/feature/xfce4-panel-from-master
<ochosi> you can simply git clone the repo, then run "make setup", "make build" and then "make test-setup"
<ochosi> then the session should be running
<ochosi> in order to avoid the second step (which basically builds the docker image) i will set up some travis CI integration on github and push the images to dockerhub
<ochosi> so for testing you'll be able to pull those from there and simply run the container (i.e. make test-setup)
<slickymaster> to what stuff are you referring specifically, flocculant 
<slickymaster> ?
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-11
<knome> https://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/.loganalysis/ updated
<knome> darker bar is now the part of the xubuntu..? people who joined and talked
<knome> so we can now prove that those who join from installer are less likely to talk than those who join via the web interface
<knome> now you have a bonus there; people with most lines
<knome> (surprise...!)
<bluesabre> evening alllll
<knome> helllllo
<ochosi> knome: nice!
<ochosi> flocculant: fwiw, i'm using the panel from master with all my plugins
<flocculant> ochosi: mmm - I appear to have a very sparse list of plugins to choose from :(
<ochosi> yeah, that's a namespace problem
<ochosi> if you build with "./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr" it should be fine
<ochosi> or you try to load the panel from the terminal and then check what it complains about
<flocculant> oh right - I'll check that out - then move to master in this install - thanks :)
<ochosi> usually /usr/local/lib/xfce4/panel-plugins vs. /usr/lib/xfce4/panel-plugins
<ochosi> a symlink should help
<ochosi> i'll try to document this in the docker container
<flocculant> ok
<ochosi> as soon as i've figured it all out :)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> mmm - well that didn't do it :) and terminal run just whined about gtk 
<tracker1> Hi, xubuntu 17.04, -tp link TL-WN722N_V1_140918- does not work
<ochosi> flocculant: then you may have to also symlink the desktop files for the plugins
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - I'll fiddle about :)
<flocculant> ochosi: nope - no idea - but it's saturday so I'll worry about that some other time 
<flocculant> seem to not be seeing /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/xfce4/panel/plugins/ 
<flocculant> I assume those are external plugins and issue is "how to most easily test external plugins with a compiled panel...
<knome> slickymaster, the thing you asked from fl occulant about was the positioning of ubuntu forums on our help & support page
<knome> there was some general discussion about how the page could/should be improved
<knome> pleia2, btw ^
<knome> pleia2, very shortly: what do you think of an textbox on the site where users can send questions, then we curate them and answer in blog posts, documentation, or some other format - whatever we feel is the most appropriate?
<slickymaster> saw the discussion about it knome 
<slickymaster> ali1234 had some good points
<slickymaster> also saw flocculant's query about xubuntu popularity among forum users
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-12
<pleia2> knome: mixed feelings, I worry people will think it's a formal support outlet and get annoyed when there isn't a reply
<pleia2> even if we specifically say otherwise
<knome> pleia2, what if it was prepended by a list of radio buttons with clear options - none of which would be "give me the answer now" :P
<knome> pleia2, maybe something like "propose an article about..." "propose a documentation section about..." or sth in that direction
<pleia2> people might read that :)
<pleia2> how do we avoid spam bots trashing our form?
<pleia2> I guess recaptcha or something
<knome> yeah
<Unit193> I can't even do those...
<flocculant> spam bots often can
<flocculant> what can I use to get more information on to xfce 13364 - I assume that gdb and the like aren't any use because it doesn't actually crash 
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13364 in general "After moving files, a Ghost file sometimes remains in Detail View" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13364
<Unit193> ochosi: Since you've been working on the panel recently, any reason http://launchpadlibrarian.net/187296289/xfce4-panel_4.11.1-0ubuntu1_4.11.1-0ubuntu2.diff.gz can't go in?
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-05
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r546 Make radio- and checkbuttons consistent between Gtk2 and 3 (... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<bluesabre> ochosi: can you attach a screenshot to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1753015 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1753015 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Add thunar custom action to directly print certain file types" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> bluesabre: done, i hope that helps. i can also add another of the print queue, but that doesn't really differ from printing in any other way
<flocculant> bluesabre: seems that downloading updates when installing is default rather than enabling that
<krytarik> https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubiquity/default-enable-downloads/+merge/337967 - but as opposed to what they intended that for, it will still happen - they will just get downloaded while installing already.
<flocculant> lovely
<flocculant> takes an age for desktop to appear in a vm
<flocculant> ochosi: still got this ... https://i.imgur.com/s1oYOaW.png
<ochosi> we shouldn't be using this plugin anymore though
<flocculant> not sure why - thought you were under the impression that was sorted
<ochosi> it was superseded by the status notifier plugin
<ochosi> it *is* fixed upstream
<flocculant> well - we are on the live 
<ochosi> but the fix was never released and nobody ever pushed the fix into xubuntu...
<ochosi> looks like a borked panel config then
<ochosi> unless we still use indicator-plugin for something (indicator-messages..?)
<ochosi> guess we have to ask bluesabre 
<flocculant> ok :)
<ochosi> and to the worst we should push the patch that i made upstream into xubuntu at least
<ochosi> or i simply do a release
<flocculant> ind-messages is still in the live
<flocculant> yup - just thought I'd mention it :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: please test: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/lightdm-gtk-greeter/fix-panel-adwaita
<ochosi> bluesabre: really fixes adwaita for me, i guess i just need to drop most of the jumping-through-hoops in greybird if we merge this
<ochosi> bluesabre: here you go, this is how it looks: https://imgur.com/a/atFFD
<ochosi> bluesabre: the .osd class means the panel is semi-transparent, which is a little sassy (but can also lead to slight readability issues, as always)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'd also add some padding to the system name on the left (jarvis in my case)
<bluesabre> ochosi, flocculant: still using xfce4-indicator-plugin, statusnotifier only shows app indicators, things like indicator-messages, indicator-power, indicator-sound, and the like are displayed in ind-plugin
<ochosi> then i either need to do a release or we need to push in the patch
<ochosi> (it's obviously a trivial patch)
<bluesabre> release would be better since it includes the translations
<bluesabre> patch would be only English
<bluesabre> unless you add the po/ to the patch as well :)
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> true that
<ochosi> lemme check what happened in the repo since
<ochosi> (at least i vaguely remember pushing the patch to the repo)
<ochosi> there it is: https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-indicator-plugin/commit/?id=21cd98844138b2bc381f3d87479f65c2f0bb7649
<ochosi> in all its glory
<bluesabre> indeed :)
<bluesabre> was looking at that the other day and stopped when I saw the new string
<bluesabre> anyway, dinner time, gotta run
<ochosi> bluesabre: there are several commits there, including a switch to xfconf 4.13, not sure we want that as a release
<ochosi> i mean ofc we can just tag something "in the middle", but there won't be a properly built release package, just the tarball from cgit...
<ochosi> alternatively we can ship a snapshot version
<ochosi> but i guess we need to start by packaging the status quo and testing it
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-06
<Unit193> Also as far as upstream releases, might be nice to get ayatana support first.
<flocculant> bluesabre knome ochosi - I've added council to the milestone contact list if either Dave or I are afk
<flocculant> Council, almost like herding 3 people into 1 place to be easily hassled :D
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, thats the council tagline :D
<ochosi> Unit193: feel free to propose patches (i have my hands full with other stuff atm)
<Unit193> ochosi: Not sure how to properly do that in configure.ac.
<Unit193> xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin is a bugfix behind it seems.
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/software-properties/more-restart/+merge/340543 heh, for 'unknown' one could use systemctl reboot. :D
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: ochosi re: the clear indicators, wonder if thats a KVM problem, not been getting that on real or Virtualbox its fixed. 
<ochosi> Unit193, bluesabre: alternatively we can create a release branch for indicator-plugin and tag there instead of master (just a small maintenance release for the currently released version). so it will be clean packaging and translations and all
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: I see it here, nothing to do with vm's
<flocculant> bluesabre: if you've not seen FFe accepted
<ochosi> flocculant: yup, noice! \o/
<flocculant> ok - call for testing out to both lists 
<ochosi> bluesabre: finally found the source of the theming issues of the greeter's panel with Adwaita, Greybird, etc.
<bluesabre> ochosi: oh?
<ochosi> the items that add the weird semi-transparent effect are all separators...
<ochosi> i added some fallback css and now it's all good
<ochosi> just tweaking all of it a little more and then you can merge
<ochosi> the .osd class for the panel is a nice touch, especially for adwaita
<ochosi> but it changes the appearance of the menus a little
<ochosi> dunno if you've tested it at all
<ochosi> so we can discuss whether we wanna keep that or not
<ochosi> i personally would also add some px of border-radius to the login window to make it look a little less bland with Adwaita (or any other theme that doesn't theme the greeter)
<ochosi> themes can still override it with setting the border radius to 0 i think
<ochosi> but they have to be explicit
<ochosi> as you can see (that's the side-effect i meant) the checks and radios in menus have a different background and the menus have the "dark" style: http://i.imgur.com/O8qCN2P.png
<bluesabre> ochosi: I see. Definitely an improvement.
<ochosi> alrighty, i'll finish up the patch so you can review / test
<ochosi> for greybird i probably want to fix the dark radio items
<ochosi> but that's the main downside of using the osd class
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, i'll leave out the border radius for now, it's actually *not* possible to override it with themes anymore
<ochosi> so ready for review/merging, i'd say
<bluesabre> Great. Will try to get to that tonight
<ochosi> hmm, maybe we should re-think boldifying all labels in the panel of the greeter
<ochosi> for readability
<ochosi> currently it's a slightly weird mix
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/HiUc1wQ.png
<ochosi> (mostly the keyboard layout looks odd)
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks, uploaded, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/18.04.3
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> bluesabre: We want new whisker?
<bluesabre> Unit193: seems like a yes, just typo fix and translations https://gottcode.org/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/
<ochosi> bluesabre, Unit193 thoughts on my indicator-plugin musings.?
<ochosi> (mostly: the proposal to do a release branch before the xfconf 4.13 dependency came in)
<ochosi> (and cherry-pick fixes from master where needed)
<Unit193> My version already has some things, I think I already voiced my opinion on indicator-plugin. :P
<ochosi> your version?
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/2.223 along with the x-d-s I just pushed should resolve the issue you saw
<bluesabre> ochosi: yes, I think that's a fine idea
<Unit193> Hrm...Well.  Eh, OK.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-07
<bluesabre> Unit193: what was your opinion on ind-? Think I missed it
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thought it'd be nice to get the ayatana alt depends upstream first.
<bluesabre> oh right
<bluesabre> but the ayatana patches we had also didn't work
<Unit193> 1. I still need to look into that.  2. For some reason they didn't seem to with indicator-sound, but they certainly do in Debian.
<Unit193> (Where ayatana-indicator-foo exists.)
<bluesabre> It might make sense to go ahead and do a new release pre-xfconf 4.13, then a follow up release with ayatana so there's a stable final version of the former
<Unit193> (FWIW, I was thinking support both, ala: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?att=1;bug=880169;filename=network-manager-applet_1.8.4-1%2Bayatanaindicator.debdiff;msg=10)  Sure, I suppose the 4.13/14 support would mean it wouldn't be *too* long between releases, so WFM.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r664 Release 18.04.3 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> I don't really have any strong opinions here, just a thought.
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'm of a mind to not release b1 if I/we deem it insufficiently tested - and to make that reason known in mailing lists
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - can we have some testing love for beta on twitter and g+1 please - also can we word it that it's there for the community to test - like facebook :p
<slickymasterWork> flocculant, regarding the test cases steps the select keyboard layout step is now appearing right after clicking the Install Xubuntu button, not after selecting the timezone step
<slickymasterWork> Do you want me to file a bug against the testcases and prepare a MP?
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: you can - but I'd be inclined to wait for mp as I suspect it'll be a mass change
<slickymasterWork> it's bound to be one
<slickymasterWork> it's on all testcases
<flocculant> yea :|
<flocculant> bluesabre: new installation to hardware - first login takes an age to reach desktop (more or less what I've been seeing in vm's) 
<flocculant> at a loss what to pin it to ... however logs in /var/log/lightdm https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/trjGhTGmbP/
<flocculant> I see "(lightdm-gtk-greeter:793): WARNING **: 19:01:27.205: [PIDs] Failed to execute command: upstart"
<flocculant> I thought that upstart was gone - and would that possibly be the reason ?
<flocculant> slickymaster: I reported it as a bug
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-08
<sorat> hi
<flocculant> b1 release tomorrow (Friday) 
<flocculant> bluesabre: early indications are an old name returning and a couple of new ones on the tracker
<flocculant> Unit193: you any idea why lightdm-gtk=-greeter would be complaining about upstart? and if it'd slow desktop arrival at all?
<Unit193> There was something recently in one of the packages about upgrades, likely in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/* stuff.
<flocculant> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/trjGhTGmbP/
<bluesabre> flocculant: looks like that's some fallback code to launch indicators in older releases of ubuntu. Shouldn't cause the slowdown, and as you can see by the timestamps, it keeps going
<bluesabre> The rest of that is GTK's ongoing debug output to developers spamming users
<bluesabre> flocculant: don't suppose you know if the other *buntus are having the first login slowness?
<bluesabre> it takes forever to get to ubiquity, so I'm thinking it might be not just us
<bluesabre> also glad that the b1 release is tomorrow... want to document what's new so blogs don't just write us off
<bluesabre> flocculant: and yeah, also of note that 32bit gets no attention at all
<bluesabre> I also wonder if iso.qa's display is part of the problem. "5/5 completed", "oh good, they got their testers"
<knome> maybe
<knome> (hello)
<bluesabre> hiya knome
<knome> stomach bug almost beaten
<bluesabre> almost yay
<slickymasterWork> that's good news knome 
<slickymasterWork> and morning both
<knome> hello slickymasterWork 
<bluesabre> hey there slickymasterWork 
<bluesabre> knome, flocculant, thoughts on having an interesting and informative release note for bionic? Currently drafting up a general format here https://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1804-release
<bluesabre> It would 1) make our release more interesting for users, and 2) give our testers an idea of where to look for issues
<bluesabre> and if so, can I include it on the b1 note if I finish writing it up tonight? :)
<knome> bluesabre, commented on the pad
<knome> do we have anything else to mention about xfce getting forward? 
<slickymasterWork> I'd remove the 'and' in (and formerly GNOME 2)
<knome> slickymasterWork, jfdi :P
<bluesabre> knome: we will, not written it yet, https://imgur.com/a/iLjym
<slickymasterWork> nasty knome :P
<knome> yes...
<bluesabre> for reference, https://wiki.bluesabre.org/bionic_changes
<bluesabre> and a summary, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bMeZ8YbhFYJvkVpu2V_LGCWRT4oc1bBReGVJ57HbQqs/edit?usp=sharing
<knome> that's a lot of links
<knome> well done
<bluesabre> some mornings are more productive than others :)
<knome> bluesabre, you have my permission to do things you want with the b1 release notes
<flocculant> bluesabre: yep - release note works for me - finish writing it up, ping bashfulrobot in -release with the location of it so that IT is the B1 release note - means I don't have to try to get that done tonight
<flocculant> ack re fallback code
<flocculant> not sure if other *buntus have the problem - but I can certainly find out - I'll start with Ubuntu
<flocculant> re iso.qa - yea I've wondered that in the past ... I'll drop a note to m/l's re it
<flocculant> bluesabre: re pad - things new that are now gtk3? maybe highlight that - for the last while we've been saying Xfce have been porting things to gtk3 - so we've not got much different
<flocculant> bluesabre: re pinging bashfulrobot, when you know what rn link will be - put it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/Beta1
<knome> slickymasterWork, how does your schedule look tomorrow post-dinner?
<slickymasterWork> wide open, so we can do some work
<knome> good
<flocculant> bluesabre: sent something about tracker with a pic
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1705243 is that actually expected behaviour?
<ubottu> bug 1705243 in parole "Play button inactive" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1705243
<flocculant> bluesabre: more re rn you want to do - you can add https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.04/release-notes if you want - it'll get updated shortlyish
<ochosi> bluesabre: figured out a good way of fixing the default look of the greeter window also with adwaita: http://i.imgur.com/X3ogKVD.png
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - I grabbed looby lou, budgie and mate. None are slow to desktop. I can only confirm it with xubuntu
<flocculant> unfortunately ...
<ochosi> meh, that sucks
<ochosi> so something in our session is dragging us down..?
<ochosi> is that a recent issue?
<flocculant> ochosi: nope - I've been talking about it for months
<knome> pleia2, there was an interesting (in a way) mail about xubuntu derivatives on -contacts, we need to reply to that soon
<knome> (the reply is mostly uninteresting)
<flocculant> evening knq
<flocculant> fail
<flocculant> knome :p
<ochosi> flocculant: sry, must've slipped by me
<flocculant> np
<ochosi> isn't there a systemd profiling thingy which tells you what took how long at startup?
<ochosi> (that may include the session lag)
<flocculant> didn't last time I checked
<flocculant> ochosi: it doesn't however appear to be a constant issue - just first time
<ochosi> hm
<flocculant> if I was waiting for 90s everytime I booted my machine - I'd have installed something else in November :D
<ochosi> lol
<flocculant> I'll re-re-re-reinstall vanilla xub and check systemd-analyze again
<flocculant> *nowish*
<ochosi> awesome
<ochosi> thanks a bunch
<flocculant> np ofc :)
<flocculant> longest bit of doing this - is waiting for the usb to be done ;)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> any more bugs on our side you know of that need ironing out?
<flocculant> not that jump out at me
<flocculant> I find it harder and harder to know - more stuff from ppa's and git make it awkward to know what others see :)
<ochosi> welcome to my world ;)
<flocculant> ha ha 
 * ochosi whispers: you're drifting towards arch...
<flocculant> nah - if I get that far I'll just move back to a vanilla install and start drifting again :D
<flocculant> bbs - booting to live again
<ochosi> flocculant: i presume this one can be closed as fixed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-notifyd/+bug/1652933
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1652933 in xfce4-notifyd (Ubuntu) "Application Tab list too small when run from Settings dialogue" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> (still linked to our bugs blueprint)
<ochosi> (at least this works fine for me)
<ochosi> knome: isn't this done and inprogress already? https://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/spec=xubuntu-b-community
<ochosi> or in fact done and done
<flocculant> ochosi: yea you can close that
<flocculant> clearing the bug bp is on my radar when I do the release note
<ochosi> alrighty
<ochosi> just decided to go through the bps now a bit
<flocculant> ochosi: systemd-blame things - and stopwatch timings for a vanilla install and my usual install https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/YPNCQ2Nd2B/
<flocculant> and ack that :)
<flocculant> lost the will to live timing the live with a stopwatch last time - wasn't in the frame of mind to try again :p
<flocculant> Unit193: from post #7 down from kerry_s > re core https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2386532&p=13746559&viewfull=1#post13746559
<ochosi> the times don't really add up for me
<flocculant> systemd ones? 
<ochosi> with vanilla you write 30 secs, but systemd tells us about roughly 9
<flocculant> yup
<ochosi> ok, so then the conclusion is that systemd analyze doesn't help in this case
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> just brb - check the second login times to the vanilla install
<flocculant> ochosi: ok so 2nd login to that install and I see times more or less the same as this install - eg what I'd expect
<Unit193> Oh strange, and I see slick mentioned the try vs install, that's usually where the problem stands.
<flocculant> so something goes on for the 1st ever login - that takes an age
<flocculant> Unit193:ack
<flocculant> ochosi: if I was me me - not me Xubuntu QA expecting this - I'd boot the usb find it taking ages, assume somethign wrong with the stick, do it all again - see the same thing - perhaps wait the 2nd time - see it taking ages to do anything and likely go elsewhere
<flocculant> ochosi: re bugs you're seeing comment earlier - not often seeing it now, but some are > the double net indicator thing
<ochosi> ah right
<flocculant> I'm assuming we're still not sure what etc
<ochosi> i remember, you mentioned that a few times
<flocculant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1685502/comments/4
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1685502 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Network manager icon appears twice on start up, from time to time" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> seems to be a race condition that is probably not fully under our control
<flocculant> yea 
<ochosi> hopefully sn-plugin will make a difference there
<ochosi> or are you using that already?
<flocculant> it's installed but not in panel
<flocculant> but I've not seen it for a while iirc
<flocculant> when I *did* restarting panel/networky things made no difference 
<flocculant> in 17.10 it stopped it
<flocculant> anyway - kind of cosmetic imo really
<ochosi> yeah, but not pretty
<ochosi> because very prominent
<flocculant> aah yes - I think I have ind-plugin to see tbird on panel
<flocculant> aaah
<flocculant> with sn-plugin and notifications - 2 net icons
<flocculant> bluesabre: have day off tomorrow - out for a few hours midday ish - should be back in time to get the techy note up together 
<ochosi> you have to hide "application indicators" in the indicator plugin
<ochosi> then they shouldn't be visible there
<ochosi> so only once
<flocculant> in sn-plugin?
<flocculant> I don't have extra net in ind-plugin even though it's not hidden
<flocculant> in sn-plugin it's showing net manager applet
<flocculant> that's just bizarre - only 1 net icon now 
<flocculant> giving up for Thursday - night all :)
<slickymaster> nighty night flocculant 
<ochosi> same here, night all
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - i386 - i386 built.
<bluesabre> evening all
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-09
<bluesabre> ochosi, flocculant: interested in adding the notification plugin to the panel?
<Unit193> Hmm?
<bluesabre> Unit193: xfce4-notifyd includes a panel plugin
<bluesabre> flocculant: is this one fixed now? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1047384
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1047384 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu Bionic) "System Encryption Password set before setting keyboard locale" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> full release note updated, https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.04/release-notes
<bluesabre> Trying my best to just login to the ubuntu wiki now
<bluesabre> ochosi: that adwaita screen looks great :)
<bluesabre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/Beta1 updated with a link to our release note
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r665 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of xubuntu-dev)
<rev2k> Hey everyone, im trying to join some of the translation projects on transifex.com/xfce . I can see English (Australia) in the list that still has strings to translate, although when I try to join the team and choose English (Australia), it isnt in the drop down, only English UK and English Canada
<ochosi> bluesabre: i personally am a fan of adding that plugin by default. gives quick access to DND mode, which is nice. but then again i'm probably biased since i'm the author ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, i know i've created quite a few reviews for you, if you want me to hand them to someone else that's ok too (xfce4-settings, greeter etc)
<flocculant> bluesabre: re notify plugin - I'm good if people want to add it
<flocculant> thanks for doing release note stuff
<flocculant> bluesabre: just to be certain cleared all the cache/config/local parole places - still no play button issue 
<flocculant> bluesabre: shifted issues to top of release note
<flocculant> bluesabre: well - we got some new names on the tracker \o/
<flocculant> I'll follow any bugs they reported and try to triage them and shout if needed
<knome> ochosi, yep, it's all done and now marked as such
<bluesabre> ochosi: sorry about that, got caught up with other things
<flocculant>  hi knome bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hi flocculant 
<flocculant> rn looks nice with all that stuffs :)
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> took longer than expected, but should get anybody up-to-date with the beta
<flocculant> bluesabre: you want a vid of parole not playing a vid - play button thing
<flocculant> if I get a mirror perhaps you could have an infinite one :D
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> nah, I should be able to dig into it from the bug report
<flocculant> ok :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: did you see discussion in here last night re the slow desktop thing?
<bluesabre> I think so... seemed like we didn't get anywhere
<flocculant> yea - that's the one ...
<flocculant> I guess we could release note it as a 'note'
<flocculant> given that the 2nd login appears to be ok
<bluesabre> Yeah, that seems fair
<bluesabre> ali1234 is usually pretty good about debugging things like that
<flocculant> right
<ali1234> 90 seconds to log in the first time?
<flocculant> ish
<bluesabre> :)
<ali1234> xubuntu doesn't use systemd for session login yet, right?
<flocculant> ali1234: which suspiciously iirc is systemd default timeout or something 
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> you could check "systemd-analyze blame" but it might not tell you anything useful about the user's session
<flocculant> ali1234: yea it doesn't
<ali1234> is it reproducible in virtualbox?
<flocculant> can't remember tbh - I use kvm
<bluesabre> it is
<ali1234> what's the exact steps to reproduce and when exactly does it happen?
<ali1234> is it before or after the login screen?
<bluesabre> I believe it only happens on live cd boot and on first login on an installed system. After the first login it's normal.
<flocculant> ali1234: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/YPNCQ2Nd2B/
<ali1234> can you try making a new user account and logging in to it?
<flocculant> wasn't 90s last night
<flocculant> ali1234: in an installed version? 
<flocculant> can do that now pretty swiftly
<ali1234> yeah, i mean: do first log in, see 90 second delay, reboot, login, no delay, make new user, log in as new user. do you get the delay?
<flocculant> oh - not got time to do that right now - off out pretty shortly
<ali1234> if you do, it's something in the default user profile
<flocculant> ack
<ali1234> most likely something missing which gets created after the first login
<flocculant> I can check that out later
<flocculant> bluesabre ali1234 - when I've done it I'll ping result
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> "Failed to send D-Bus message Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply,... etc"
<ali1234> is there a way to login on console on the livecd?
<ali1234> hmm i think this is it
<ali1234> ERROR:dbus.proxies:Introspect error on org.bluez [blah blah] Failed to activate service 'org.bluez': timed out (service_start_timeout=25000ms)
<ali1234> and it tried 3 times, so 75 seconds, which is what i measured the delay as
<knome> hooray ali1234 :)
<flocculant> ali1234: awesoome - thanks :)
<ali1234> (also i have no bluetooth icon, not sure if that's expected as i have no bluetooth hardware in the VM)
<ali1234> that error is in ~/.xsession-errors btw
<ali1234> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/2HW5944kpG
<flocculant> ali1234: I see it in xsession-errors.old in the install from last night - missing from xsession-errors there
<ali1234> basically lines 54 to 60
<flocculant> can paste them if they're any use
<flocculant> and yea - it tried 3 times
<ali1234> so out of interest, is that blueman PyGIWarning present in your latest logs?
<ali1234> it could be related if somehow the wrong version is loading
<flocculant> not locally - but present in errors.old 
<flocculant> not in the xsession-errors there
<ali1234> do you have bluetooth hardware and/or a bluetooth indicator icon?
<flocculant> no hardware - can't remember what was on that install panel
<flocculant> certainly not locally - all removed
<flocculant> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/7Zyv2kpZHz/
<flocculant> from last nights install, which had 2 boots only
<flocculant> off now for a while
<ali1234> so in the livecd session if i kill blueman-applet and restart it, it times out again
<ali1234> bug 1533206 seems related
<ubottu> bug 1533206 in Blueman "Blueman-applet crash on login: DBusException in call_blocking(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.TimedOut: Failed to activate service 'org.bluez': timed out" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1533206
<ali1234> previously it would crash if you had no bluetooth hardware... seems now it just hangs for 75 seconds :(
<knome> phew... good thing i have bt stuff :P
<knome> joking aside, bbl
<knome> slickymasterWork, would you be around at 16UTCish?
<slickymasterWork> yep
<slickymasterWork> but just until 17:45 UTC, knome 
<slickymasterWork> have to pick up little at 18:00 at school
<slickymasterWork> + one
<FurretUber> Hi, is this bug: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13979 planned to be corrected for 18.04 release?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13979 in General "Some application names are not localized in applications menu" [Normal,Needinfo]
<knome> slickymasterWork, ok, then let's start the sprint then as i have unexpected alone time home at that point and "nothing" (yeah right) to do
<slickymasterWork> I'm going to need a few more minutes knome, please
<knome> slickymasterWork, sure, np
<knome> (and me too kind of, wife and son are still in the progress of leaving)
<knome> ok, i'm free
<knome> i mean alone
<knome> :P
<slickymasterWork> ok knome 
<slickymasterWork> shall we start
<slickymasterWork> ?
<knome> sure
<knome> so, what do *you* have in mind for this cycle?
<slickymasterWork> installer first?
<knome> whichever order
<slickymasterWork> you said you had some changes in mind you'd like to propose
<slickymasterWork> namely graphically wise
<knome> yes
<slickymasterWork> specifically what?
<knome> i'm just pulling my branch to see where that is at
<knome> well the main thing being "let's make it smaller"
<slickymasterWork> let me fire up a VM so I can see it also
<knome> https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1804
<slickymasterWork> I'll have to do some RDP for that
<knome> fun
<slickymasterWork> well, it's work 
<knome> do you want to discuss the other things while things are rolling?O
<slickymasterWork> only Linux here, besides that machine is server
<slickymasterWork> yep
<slickymasterWork> regarding the end user docs I don't have, or plan any major revamps
<knome> at this point that would be outrageous anyway :P
<slickymasterWork> or better, not thinking in altering them just for the sake of it
<knome> visually, i'm ok with them as they are
<slickymasterWork> same here
<knome> at some point i'll probably update them but that's a longer term plan
<slickymasterWork> I already add the mate apps changes
<knome> and is related to website
<slickymasterWork> hm hm
<slickymasterWork> did you have anything in mind, regarding the -docs
<slickymasterWork> other than that?
<knome> no, not really
<knome> the poking was just to make sure you handle your responsibilities :P
<knome> or if you can't that i know to make it happen otherwise
<slickymasterWork> :P
<slickymasterWork> it's true I've been pretty swallowed up here at work
<slickymasterWork> it will be worst in the near future
<knome> it's ok, the comment wasn't meant to be as snarky as it came out..
<slickymasterWork> but by no means I'm planning on leaving this boat
<knome> so if we're sure all changes in all packages are covered in docs, then they are fine
<knome> i think we also removed all mentions to release
<knome> or if there was something, updated them, so it's good
<slickymasterWork> all the changes, release wise, are already in the -docs
<slickymasterWork> I think we're not missing anything new
<knome> apart from an upload
<slickymasterWork> not sure I understood you now
<slickymasterWork> what do you mean by an upload?
<knome> package upload
<knome> wait
<slickymasterWork> the -docs package?
<knome> yes
<slickymasterWork> I can't upload it
<slickymasterWork> lack the permission
<knome> i know
<knome> but we need that done
<slickymasterWork> that's generally bluesabre doing
<knome> yes
<knome> :P
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre ^^
<slickymasterWork> ;)
<knome> bluesabre, assigned to you on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-b-documentation
<slickymasterWork> right
<knome> bluesabre, i'll look at the source to make sure it's smooth for you
<slickymasterWork> BB is booting
<knome> bluesabre, eg. changelogs done
<slickymasterWork> I think the changelog is in condition
<knome> apparently so
<slickymasterWork> :)
<slickymasterWork> does have his moments 
<knome> hah
<knome> :P
<knome> anyway
<knome> the installer slideshow
<knome> it's relatively bare atm
<slickymasterWork> VNware is damn slow :P
<knome> :P
<slickymasterWork> starting to pull your branch
<knome> so i guess the next questions are:
<knome> what content do we want there?
<knome> in what quantity?
<knome> ^ less than now, but how much less
<slickymasterWork> and how much slides/imagery in it?
<knome> yes
<knome> and what kind of images
<knome> don't remember if you had looked at https://staging.xubuntu.org/
<slickymasterWork> I'd hate to loose some of the interactivity we have now
<knome> i have that updated desktop/laptop image on the frontpage and new image ont he community page
<knome> i mean the development page
<knome> one option is to use those images in the slideshow as well
<slickymasterWork> that's a big +1 from me 
<knome> and i could try to have more time and motivation to draw a few more
<slickymasterWork> wouldn't hurt
<slickymasterWork> even though I do like the ones you already did
<knome> but first i'd need to know the concept
<knome> of the slideshow, that is
<knome> to know what kind of imagery i might draw
<knome> for the help & support slide, it could work if we added a few "buttons" like the links on the website
<knome> for the links we have there
<slickymasterWork> there are a few slides we could approach distinctly 
<slickymasterWork> that's one
<knome> it would give the slide the required amount of facelift
<slickymasterWork> other would be the apps slide
<knome> or could at least'
<knome> yes..
<slickymasterWork> do we really have to continue saying what comes with the distro after all these years?
<knome> no
<knome> and we don't
<slickymasterWork> exactly
<knome> if you looked at my new branch :P
<slickymasterWork> still branching it 
<slickymasterWork> sigh
<knome> haha
<slickymasterWork> yeah :(
<knome> so... suggestion:
<knome> add the monitor/laptop artwork for the "ready to go" slide
<slickymasterWork> how big (slide numbers) is the reduction you have in mind?
<knome> and the community face one on the get involved one
<slickymasterWork> agree
<knome> this new slideshow has 5 slides
<knome> and it's also smaller in terms of resolution
<slickymasterWork> so, dropping 3
<knome> yep
<knome> it's not set it stone if we need more slides
<knome> but with new fast disks...
<slickymasterWork> well, monitor/artwork one was one of the suggestions I was going to propose 
<slickymasterWork> dropping it
<slickymasterWork> that is
<knome> the slide?
<slickymasterWork> yep
<knome> then it would be 4 slides...
<slickymasterWork> my reasoning is the same as the one for the apps
<slickymasterWork> we started it circa 16.04
<knome> the text now is:
<slickymasterWork> by one it's a given fact
<knome> eh, i can't copy-paste
<slickymasterWork> * by now
<knome> well it says where you can find the apps and what you can use to customize your system
<pleia2> knome: thanks for replying to that contacts email
<knome> eg. app menu, package manager, settings manager
<knome> pleia2, np
<knome> slickymasterWork, i think that's sane information, but obviously if you have better ideas...
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I know
<knome> the wording is stale at least
<knome> also we still need to keep in mind we don't need to market xubuntu any more; the user is already installing at this point
<slickymasterWork> what I'm saying is do we still need to keep saying/displaying that info?
<slickymasterWork> that's my point
<knome> what if it's the first time the user boots up a linux OS?
<slickymasterWork> but that also extends to the apps one
<knome> which is why i'm only proposing dropping one of them
<slickymasterWork> that user is also unaware of what comes installed with xub
<knome> in this slide we are pointing them to explore their system
<slickymasterWork> I know it's a bit of a trade off
<knome> (that's a good word, we could use that to drop something else stale)
<slickymasterWork> ok
<slickymasterWork> sold
<knome> this exploring includes finding out which apps are there
<knome> but with that we come back to the first slide
<knome> we mention that the user can try out their system if they use the live cd
<slickymasterWork> the welcome
<knome> err, the try xubuntu option, not live cd
<slickymasterWork> yes
<knome> so there's some redundancy in those things
<knome> also, do we need to congratulate people for choosing to install xubuntu?
<knome> isn't that a strong cliche?
<slickymasterWork> it's a redundancy alright
<slickymasterWork> no we don't
<knome> have you already got the branch?
<slickymasterWork> glad you also mention that becasue it has been bugger him for a while now
<slickymasterWork> mot yet
<slickymasterWork> * not
<slickymasterWork> 436 kb/s
<knome> siggggh
<knome> ;)
<slickymasterWork> getting back to the last slide
<knome> yes
<slickymasterWork> I do want to drop the congrats
<knome> you mean the first slide?
<knome> did we have a pad to work on this?
<slickymasterWork> think not
<knome> https://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1804-installer-slidshow
<knome> there it is
<knome> but i think it might be outdated
<knome> just a sec while i make some small changes in the branch too
<slickymasterWork> \o/ finished 
<knome> huzzah
<slickymasterWork> not running
<knome> you need that one extra package
<slickymasterWork> webkit?
<knome> Unit193!!!
<knome> i don't remember...
<knome> or flocculant, do you happen to recall?
<slickymasterWork> or krytarik
<knome> i can try lastlogging
<knome> 14:18  Unit193: gir1.2-webkit2-4.0 or gir1.2-webkit-3.0
<slickymasterWork> let me install it
<slickymasterWork> that's not the one as I already have it 
<knome> ok, one more sec
<knome> libwebkitgtk-3.0-dev
<knome> maybe move the idea about a "ready to go" system to the first slide?
<knome> but it's hard because it would then be the first sentence
<knome> but that's ok, we can figure it out
<knome> i mean the sentence is also too long because it's one sentence for the whole slide
<slickymasterWork> you mean it will extend to more than one line?
<knome> that's not the issue
<knome> i don't want a slide with only on period
<knome> *one
<slickymasterWork> gotcha
<knome> or from a different angle, why try to make those two things fit in one sentence when you can just use two?
<knome> as i said in the pad, maybe move the "pre-installed" thing to the first slide
<knome> and try to make the customization thing more interesting
<slickymasterWork> I've split it into two sentences 
<knome> yes, but now we're back to square one
<knome> ;)
<slickymasterWork> lol 
<knome> ok, another way to approach it
<knome> let's use irc for the chat because the pad becomes hard to read otherwise
<knome> so if we drop the "once...", then it becomes very technical and boring
<slickymasterWork> not necessarily 
<knome> we can definitely change the beginning (or the whole thing if we have better ideas)
<slickymasterWork> I mean we shouldn't assume that all our users are technicians nor noobs
<knome> nope
<knome> what i meant with technical is really
<slickymasterWork> I'd start with Use the package...
<knome> "written by technical people"
<knome> written like code documenation
<knome> :P
<knome> this can be a more fun thing
<slickymasterWork> what about Software Manager instead?
<knome> if that's what the menu says
<knome> i mean the whole package manager thing is meh
<knome> if you are a new user, it doesn't mean anything to you
<slickymasterWork> nopes, just Software
<knome> if not, then you already know this
<slickymasterWork> yes, and Software is discernible for the newbies and familiar to old users 
<knome> what if we go a more general way
<knome> like "xubuntu is really customizable"
<knome> dunno, the settings manager is a cool feat
<knome> in that all of the stuff is in one place
<slickymasterWork> but that doesn't really is associated with the application installation question
<knome> no
<slickymasterWork> a one liner only?
<knome> nope
<knome> but this kind of tries to fix the first slide
<slickymasterWork> yes
<slickymasterWork> and it does look stupid now
<knome> there's an idea...
<slickymasterWork> but now the second one is completely 
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> was about to say that
<slickymasterWork> I don't have any issues with this approach, tbh
<knome> i kind of like the idea of going a bit like:
<knome> first do this, ...
<flocculant> evening you 2
<knome> once you've done that, then ....
<slickymasterWork> even because the installing time is getting smaller
<slickymasterWork> hey flocculant 
<knome> eg. try to split the now first slide into two int he time scale as well
<knome> you get what i'm saying?
<knome> the thing with "once you've..."
<slickymasterWork> yes
<knome> makes it sound more like "this can take time, when you are ready get back to.."
<knome> now it's like "do this, this and this"
<slickymasterWork> yep
<knome> flocculant, hello
<knome> flocculant, feel free to join our brainstorming
<slickymasterWork> https://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1804-installer-slidshow
<knome> flocculant, on the sliDshow ^
 * flocculant looks
<knome> slickymasterWork, on another note, not sure the community fe... faces artwork fits on the last slide with the new note ;P
<slickymasterWork> yeah, but sliding aspects of help could remain
<knome> hello bluesabre!
<knome> slickymasterWork, ack
<slickymasterWork> hi bluesabre 
 * bluesabre waves
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> Only stopping by for a bit since I saw the channel was active on my lunch break :)
<knome> slickymasterWork, oh, you mean those sliding things
<knome> slickymasterWork, nooooo
<knome> :P
<slickymasterWork> don't like them?
<knome> nope
<knome> let's do something else if you want flashy
<slickymasterWork> ok
<knome> but maybe i can come up with something nice with the installation media comment
<slickymasterWork> yep, and preferably not static
<flocculant> I'm not at all convinced that making the slideshow say next to nothing is helpful - but I'm also *shrug* you can do what you want with it and I'll not say more than that
<knome> flocculant, i'll happily include all kinds of stuff that can be helpful there in that time and space :)
<slickymasterWork> thing is we're always saying way too much, flocculant 
<knome> brb
<slickymasterWork> in the slideshow
<flocculant> like I said "I'll not say more than that"
<bluesabre> Seems like you guys are doing a fine job. :-) bbl
 * bluesabre peaces out
<knome> hf bluesabre 
<tracker5> I'm new here. I want to help testing 18.04. I have done the RC1-live-session-testcase. Then I did the RC1-install testcase. Would it be helpful to now to the nightly version of these testcases? And as an aside: which would be more helpful for the devs: the RC1 or the nightly testcases? Thank you.
 * knome points tracker5 to flocculant 
<flocculant> hi tracker5 
<flocculant> tracker5: basically a milestone is just a point - now we've almost moved past it - the qa team (me and akxwi-dave) have no interest in it :D
<flocculant> if in doubt - always the daily :)
<flocculant> tracker5: what sort of thing are you testing on? vm? hardware?
<flocculant> are you in a position to use it fulltime?
<flocculant> the last is probably one of the most useful things people could do - but also understandable when it's not possible
<tracker5> As I said I'm new here, so here goes: I don't know what you mean by "a milestone is just a point" (and just to be absolutely clear: english is not my own language)
<flocculant> tracker5: taking the language first - don't worry - many of the xubuntu team are the same as that :)
<tracker5> I am testing on a laptop. I am in a position to use it full time. As a back up I have 16.04 on a different partition
<flocculant> tracker5: that's great - then I'd be inclined to make use of you like that 
<tracker5> So, if I download the daily that would be more helpful?
<flocculant> frankly if the installer part of the iso breaks - it's likely to be broken for everyone
<flocculant> tracker5: do you still have the iso you grabbed for beta?
<tracker5> yes
<knome> tracker5, milestone is just a point means it's just a single daily image from a predetermined day
<flocculant> tracker5: ok - so let me introduce you to zsync :D
<knome> tracker5, we keep on testing that to make sure everyone is on the same page for at least the milestone
<flocculant> using that - you don't have to download the whole iso - you can just download the differences
<tracker5> So: should I install zsync and from that point on I am testing the daily?
<flocculant> tracker do you have 30 minutes or so now?
<tracker5> Yes, unless my wife wants her hot chocolate between now and then
<tracker5> :-)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ok - so I'll take over the channel for a bit then :D
<tracker5> please do
<flocculant> take some time explaingin and making some things easier for you
<knome> flocculant, it's yours!
<flocculant> so - open a terminal in the folder you've stored your downloaded iso
<flocculant> then install zsync with apt
<flocculant> let me know when you've done that
<tracker5> Ah.. ehm... well: the iso is in the Downloads folder in the 16.04 partition; I am now running this from the 18.04 partition/session. Your suggestion would mean I'd have to log out here, reboot and etc... Is that what you want me to do?
<flocculant> shouldn't need to - just mount that partition
<tracker5> right. will try. brb
 * flocculant runs to kitchen
<tracker5> So so so sorry... The iso is not in that Downloads folder anymore. It's on my usb-stick... 
<flocculant> tracker5: well I've got time if you want to copy it over?
<flocculant> if not we can talk and I'll just give you the zsync command you can use later - you tell me
<flocculant> also tell me if I'm going to quick
<tracker5> will do. which would make more sense: to put it in the download folder of the 16.04 partition or in the 18.04 parition?
<flocculant> well - if you're going to move to using the 18.04 then in there would make more sense
<tracker5> I need some advice here: what's the best way to copy the iso? (If i use thunar I don't "see" the iso, but the files)
<flocculant> oh 
<flocculant> probably best to just grab it again 
<flocculant> we could actually use zsync so you'll know how to use it next time
<tracker5> ah right, you really meant the iso, and not the "live"-usb... sorry for being daft.
<flocculant> yea - no worries :)
<tracker5> I'll download the iso again
<flocculant> hang on :)
<tracker5> remember all this time we are actually testing 18.04 here :-)
<flocculant> yup :)
<flocculant> open a terminal where you want the iso to be
<tracker5> you want me to download the daily?
<flocculant> you will be shortly - but with zsync
<tracker5> so not the daily now?
<flocculant> sort of - lets get it going - then I'll explain about dailies etc
<flocculant> do you use 64bit?
<tracker5> yes
<flocculant> ok - so install zsync with apt
<tracker5> wait.. I have not downloaded an iso yet...(sorry for being slow).
<tracker5> Can I use this? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/bionic-desktop-amd64.iso
<flocculant> tracker5: we'll do the iso shortly :D
<tracker5> ah right.
<knome> tracker5, don't download an iso. install zsync ;)
<tracker5> will do
<flocculant> just install zsync and let me know when you have
<tracker5> zsync installed nicely
<flocculant> ok now we can use it 
<flocculant> in the terminal run 
<flocculant> zsync http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/bionic-desktop-amd64.iso.zsync
<flocculant> as you have no iso - it will tell you it's grabbing the whole thing
<tracker5> running
<tracker5> eta 6 mins
<flocculant> tomorrow or Sunday or any day you can use exactly the same command - next time it will ONLY grab the difference
<tracker5> cool. "icremental" iso updating?
<tracker5> ETA 4 mins
<flocculant> https://i.imgur.com/I8y3mDy.png
<flocculant> is what I see now using the same command - nothing to grab as I have it all
<flocculant> generally I see it only having to download somewhere between 10 and 20 %
<tracker5> I can see how this is helpful.
<flocculant> indeed :D
<flocculant> hi donofrio - just chatting to a new tester atm
<donofrio> yepper
<donofrio> I selected "autojoin" this channel and dev so I'll be here moar often
<flocculant> donofrio: this is where we hang out
<tracker5> less than 1 min
<flocculant> tracker5: so - as far as testing the iso goes - you can obviously 'use' 18.04 as your main install - and report issues you find with ubuntu-bug
<flocculant> sigh - not testing the iso at all - that's testing 18.04 in the real world :D
<flocculant> so do that while you can
<tracker5> zsync is done
<flocculant> iso testing - do you have vm capability on the laptop - mostly that's down to ram
<tracker5> hmmm. You want me to run a vm on this machine? RAM would not be a problem I think.
<flocculant> tracker5: this is how I do stuff ...
<flocculant> I run the dev version more or less immediately after we release a version
<tracker5> whatever needs to be done, I'll do it
<flocculant> I then test our iso's for the most part in a vm
<flocculant> I also have the iso listed on my grub - so I can at least boot it on hardware
<tracker5> I'd be quite willing to update this 18.04 partition on a daily basis and use that
<tracker5> whatever is more helpful
<flocculant> tracker5: you misunderstand me there
<tracker5> Ah, sorry
<flocculant> once you've got it installed - you can let the updater do it's thing to keep you updated
<flocculant> then - I use a vm to test the iso for installs
 * flocculant grabs a picture to show you
<tracker5> (thank you for being patient)
<flocculant> https://i.imgur.com/3bpaDGs.png
<flocculant> see - vm of the current daily and us chatting :)
<donofrio> I see me name ;)
<flocculant> he he he 
<tracker5> So, I'll now have to install VirtualBox?
<donofrio> just so you all know I run 18.04 on my windows 10 installs using wsl - my daily driver setup is http://www.tinyurl.com/donofrio1804 in case anyone wonders why I'm trying to update and when it fails....just for the log I figured I'd let you know all that I'm doing... ;)
<flocculant> that's up to you - I use kvm
<tracker5> Am installing VirtualBox now...
<flocculant> donofrio: yea I've seen you in the +1 channel
<flocculant> tracker5: so with booting to 18.04 AND using a vm - you're doing invaluable things for the community
<donofrio> (was sharing for the 'others' here and that will come - I figure this like others is logged daily?)
<flocculant> donofrio: the channel? if so yea - logged 
<tracker5> well booting to 18.04 is not a problem. installing virtual box is though: I tried to install the zesty version but that won't install it appears. Where can I get kvm?
<flocculant> tracker5: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM/Installation
<flocculant> you also want virt-manager
<tracker5> oh man... I'm learning lots. *takes a look at the link you sent*
<flocculant> tracker5: this could take a while
<donofrio> I tried to use VB to build my windows and couldn't bootp until I used VMware player that hooked rightin ti pxe/bootp just fine
<donofrio> ti = to
<flocculant> tracker5: do you want to have a read of that - pretty self explanatory - then shout? 
<flocculant> also - more reading material at https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa.html
<flocculant> it's getting close to 'belly sounds like volcano' time here lol
<flocculant> tracker5: quick question - what prompted you to come here offering help? 
<tracker5> I installed synaptic, then virtual box. So am ready to use that.
<flocculant> ok 
<tracker5> If you need food: eat
<tracker5> :-)
<flocculant> check out the secon dlink I gave above at some point
<flocculant> tracker5: so at this point - you're running 18.04 and are in a position to test iso's as often as you want to
<flocculant> what would help me now is for you to have questions :D
<tracker5> as to what prompted me: I have been using xubuntu for years and want to contrinute. I saw Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph's call out on google+ yesterday
<tracker5> I had been doing some testing before
<knome> ^ pleia2 :)
<flocculant> tracker5: aah cool - glad that worked then :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: ^^ our blog post did some good \o/
<tracker5> as to questions: if I use 18.04 on a daily basis and update/upgrade that each day, and I do regular installs in the VM, that would be helpful?
<flocculant> tracker5: yep :)
<flocculant> tracker5: were you the person asking Lyz questions on the g+1 post?
<flocculant> whobers on launchpad
<tracker5> I am the one who "complained" about the test process being not as straight forward as I had hoped (sorry about that), but yes: that's me :-)
<tracker5> indeed
<tracker5> whobers
<flocculant> excellent - that squares that circle
<tracker5> it triaged the traingle I think
<tracker5> ;-)
<flocculant> tracker5: would you think it worth 'our' time to run some sort of 'welcome to testing xubuntu' type session on here?
<tracker5> *needs to take care of his wife's hot chocolate now; will be right back*
<flocculant> okey doke
<ochosi> bluesabre: hey no worries, i just noticed you're doing so many different things at the moment and i don't wanna stress you out or anything
<pleia2> tracker5: welcome! glad you found your way here :)
<flocculant> pleia2: some time in the next day could you g+1 the mail that's about to hit the mailing list for us please :)
<flocculant> knome: could you twitter it ;)
 * flocculant will fb
<knome> maybe politely ask pleia2 
<knome> :P
<pleia2> okie
<knome> she's probably logged in already...
<knome> thanks!
<flocculant> oh right :D
<pleia2> I can do twitter too
<flocculant> I'll do fb a bit later or it'll 404 when getting the mail and it looks stupid :d
<tracker5> *wife's happy now*
<flocculant> tracker5: just quickly - re testcases and what you might see - the testcases aren't constantly updated - there's me and a couple of other people who do it for the whole shebang
<flocculant> so if you see an issue with one - you can report that as a bug - I see them quickly
<tracker5> so, flucculant: would it be worth your time to have a session here? Not sure: for me (and perhaps people like me) the irc-channel is not q well know medium. 
<tracker5> to log into this was a bit of a step, because of the fact that it's out of my normal channels
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> I can point people at the dev tracker option - which is perhaps where you came from? 
 * flocculant refuses to do video ;)
<tracker5> so, to me (but that may just be me) it seems the people who get to come here have already taken some steps beyond their comfort zone.
<flocculant> :)
<tracker5> Also: 
<tracker5> the terminology "you guys" use, is somewhat overwhelming. Don't get me wrong: I see that you are patient and do explain things the best way you can. But:
<tracker5> just to show you what I mean:
<knome> (before you even say it, i want to say this is important and very useful for us, so thanks for sharing!)
<tracker5> from this conversation alone:
<tracker5> "until I used VMware player that hooked rightin ti pxe/bootp"
<tracker5> and
<pleia2> flocculant: the mailing list post about possibly running an intro session?
<tracker5>  my windows 10 installs using wsl - my daily driver setup 
<tracker5> " I use a vm to test the iso for installs" (which I now understand
<knome> tracker5, maybe it helps understanding that those comments were from donofrio, not flocculant :)
<tracker5> "the dev version"
<knome> maybe IRC as a platform (and how it's usually output) can make following some of the stuff harder when there are multiple discussions going on 
<tracker5> I am not trying to be unkind here. Jut trying to paint the picture
<knome> i absolutely understand; as i said, this is valuable information for us
<knome> would a glossary with explanations help?
<knome> eg. vm <> virtual machine
<knome> dev version <> development version, ...
<knome> obviously with more thorough explanations
<knome> the problem with those is that they don't help you if you haven't read them - and referencing to them live is tedious...
<knome> and if you read them without knowing the subject, they might not help you understand anything either ;)
<tracker5> I've been thinking about that: I think it might indeed. Does irc do marco's, so that when you type "vm" it expands to virtual machine?
<knome> nope
<knome> but the glossary could be with the developer documentation
<knome> which we hope is written in a way that is understandable, btw
<knome> if that is not, then "good news", because that's relatively easy to fix :)
<tracker5> a lot of the documentation is indeed understandable!
<knome> great
<knome> if you find it potentially lacking in some parts, knowing where would be useful
<knome> and in what ways lacking or misleading or whatever
<knome> ultimately there's also this other thing: terminology is a bit complex because the whole matter is kind of complex
<flocculant> tracker5: when we talk about documentation in this scenario - we're usually talking about the contributor docs online - is that what you're referring to?
<knome> https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/ <- that
<knome> and i guess ultimately any other documentation that links to
<knome> :)
<knome> now for something completely different... bbl
<flocculant> heh
<knome> tracker5, thanks for your interest! :)
<tracker5> flocculant: that's indeed a very useful place to start. I used it some time ago.
<flocculant> tracker5: cool
<tracker5> Shall I give another example of where i got confused?
<flocculant> yea for sure
 * flocculant goes to make cup of tea while you type
<tracker5> I am a bit of a language fanatic: I speak and read/write Dutch, speak and read/write German, speak and read/write English. So:
<tracker5> I thought I could do some translation work. I headed over to 
<tracker5> https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/
<tracker5> then: https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/docs-translations.html
<tracker5> then: https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/docs-translation-guidelines.html
<tracker5> then https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/Guide
<tracker5> then https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/StartingToTranslate
<flocculant> and still weren't sure?
<tracker5> and then I sort of gave up.
<flocculant> slickymaster: ^^
<flocculant> knome: ^^]
<tracker5> It's not your fault though
<tracker5> It's a bit of a wall which I ran into I think
<flocculant> translations are not an easy way in at all from what I read
<tracker5> I would not know how to make this any easier though, so I am not complaining. I am just trying to paint the picture here
<flocculant> yea for sure - and as know said earlier - all good for us to know
<flocculant> it's not easy to do docs for things you understand - very easy to forget not knowing things
<flocculant> the qa docs turned up when I wrote them after 5 or 6 years of doing it for instance
<flocculant> tracker5: so back to the testing stuff - any thing you'd like to know now that will help you?
<tracker5> I think I now understand what I can do to help: I'll update my 18.04 on a daily basis; will zsyng the iso in the downloads folder as often as I can to test the install
<tracker5> and i'll report anything I think might be a problem \
<flocculant> ok - any thing you need to ask - come back here, or mail the dev list
<flocculant> I'm at UK times 
<tracker5> I'll subscribe to the devlist
<flocculant> yep
<tracker5> I'm at Dutch times.
<flocculant> I don't always post to both list
<flocculant> especially early in the 6 month cycle
<flocculant> tracker5: that's easy then - quite a few of the team are EU times
<tracker5> *confused* "in the 6 month cycle" you hibernate? ;-)
<flocculant> :)
<tracker5> seriously though: what 6 month cycle are you refering to?
<flocculant> the development cycle
<tracker5> Ah, I see. Sorry
<flocculant> when we release bionic in April - we'll immediately (almost) start the next
<tracker5> If people only knew how much time and dedication you guys put into this!
<flocculant> so what I meant by my comment was 'at the beginning of the cycle I don't include the user list - not fair' and only mail the dev list who are fair game for me :D
<flocculant> tracker5: well you can spread the word now ;)
<knome> my main issue with translations is that our translations go bureaucratically through the ubuntu translation teams
<knome> this means we have no simple way to tell you to do this to get doing that
<knome> this is also where the stuff under help.ubuntu.com comes into the show...
<tracker5> knome: that's yet another of these confusing things: I looked into translating for xubuntu, but after 42 (:-)) hyperlinks I found myself on a Ubuntu-site. So I decided I had taken some wrong utrn somewhere
<knome> nope, xubuntu shares a lot of things with ubuntu
<knome> like the testing tracker is the ubuntu testing tracker, not the xubuntu testing tracker :)
<knome> basically all of our infrastructure is donated by canonical (the company behind ubuntu)
<tracker5> Yes, I realise that now but not when I was trying to get involved then
<knome> or not really even "donated" but given into use
<knome> mhm, so it might help to mention this in the contributor docs as well. ack.
<tracker5> BTW: just tried to start the ISO in VM (see I'm learning the lingo here), but got an error: VT-x is disabled in the BIOS for all CPU modes (VERR_VMX_MSR_ALL_VMX_DISABLED).
<knome> i'll bring this up again as we're hitting a wall related to this again; i still think we might be better off just ripping ourself off from the ubuntu translation team bureaucracy for our own packages
<knome> like xubuntu-docs could easily be translated under xubuntu-specific bureaucracy
<flocculant> tracker5: you need to turn that on in BIOS 
<tracker5> So I'll have to logout now, and may return later but possibly not with the alias "tracker5"
<knome> xfce stuff we can get translated upstream with their transifex
<knome> (yes, this is the downside: you probably need two team memberships and accounts)
<tracker5> thanks for your patience
<flocculant> tracker5: you might want to look into setting up an irc nicname
<knome> but again, bbabl
<tracker5> will do
<flocculant> tracker5: no problem at all - thanks for coming by and mostly for testing for us all 
<tracker5> pleasure
<flocculant> :)
<tracker5> *now trying to find the right way to log out here*
<flocculant> if you're on the webthing - just close the tab :)
<pleia2> flocculant: the one about a testing session?
<flocculant> pleia2: sorry - yea that one :)
<tracker5> ah thanks
 * flocculant should possibly check twitter and g+1 when things are there for 'me' lol
<pleia2> ok, I did the things
<flocculant> <3
<I_was_tracker5_o> I turned the virtualisation on and am now running the install in virtualbox. So all is well
<flocculant> excellent
<flocculant> I_was_tracker5_o: if you're likely to be back to irc (and we do most of our communication here) have a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/XChatHowto
<flocculant> just remember to use hexchat instead when installing
 * flocculant patiently waits for knock on the door
<I_was_tracker5_o> installing hexchat now
<flocculant> https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration
<I_was_tracker5_o> great; thanks
<flocculant> no problem :)
<Used2BTracker5> Anyone out there? (This is a test)
<ochosi> nooooope
<ochosi> test failed. only bots in here. right ubottu?
<Used2BTracker5> I see. Shame. But thank you. :-)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> evening ochosi 
<ochosi> evening flocculant 
<flocculant> been busy in here since yesterday lol
<donofrio>  knome keep in mind if your new to iirc'ing then you simply can look to the left side in hexchat and see who is typing and when you reply to someone just type (part of there name and hit tab to complete) name and then a comma will show up then you can talk with them....never though you'd think my comments were for you hope you have a good day in iirc land ;)
<Used2BTracker5> So: what I learned just this eveneing thanks to you all: usage of zsync; xchat; freenode...  
<Used2BTracker5> donofrio, thanks for the explanation
<donofrio> Used2BTracker5, yep iirc good for the last 25 years online ;)
<flocculant> :)
<Used2BTracker5> I've been using computers since the 80s, worked on mainframes... never used irc though. 
<Used2BTracker5> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_PET 
<Used2BTracker5> happy days.
<Used2BTracker5> bye for now
<donofrio> ttyl8r
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, i noticed the backlog :)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - the people I worry about are the ones who just try something else > https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2386737
<flocculant> right - been sat in front of the screen since 5:30 ish - comfier seat fpr a while
<ochosi> flocculant: well thanks for catching those ppl on the forums and replying
<donofrio> anyone seen a xubuntu 18.04 beta1 cloud squishfs file around?
<donofrio> I mean a daily cloud squishfs xubuntu release of 18.04
<slickymaster> we tried that, or something similar, with the installer translations knome 
<knome> yes and tbh there weren't any blockers
<knome> well for that package there are
<slickymaster> was going to say that
<slickymaster> never got any feedback from other flavors reagrding it
<slickymaster> regarding even
<knome> yep...
<knome> that was a sad story
<Unit193> Sad, sad Robot.
<Unit193> pa-plug and -terminal in Debian.
<Unit193> (libwnck and vte remaining delta)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i think we should make the warnings shown in the restart and shutdown windows infobars, but i guess we don't want that in 18.04 because of translations, right?
<ochosi> although if we don't change any strings, maybe it's ok...
<bluesabre> ochosi: got a screenshot of what it looks like now?
<ochosi> the warning you mean?
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> unfortunately not, because dm-tool doesn't allow the power windows to show and from the greeter you can't take screenshots
<bluesabre> lovely :)
<bluesabre> will lock and check
<Unit193> Ah, greeter.  OK.
<ochosi> bluesabre: haven't finished the infobar stuff yet
<bluesabre> ochosi: ah, yeah, wouldn't be so bad there
<Unit193> I think I pasted a LL bug somewhere... :>
<ochosi> only sucky part is that the dialog title leaves you with a fairly empty window...
<ochosi> bluesabre: anyway, maybe test and review my other UI fixes first and i can try to get the infobar in until UIF
<bluesabre> ochosi: will do
<ochosi> also would be good to get more greybird testing
<ochosi> currently the checkboxes don't look the same in all contexts (e.g. in menus they are still drawn by murrine)
<ochosi> btw thanks for all the release note work you did!
<Unit193> -ind-plug?
<ochosi> ah right, thanks for the reminder
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'd also really like to get the mirror fixes for display settings into 18.04
<ochosi> Unit193: crap, the hook declines the release branch
<ochosi> i need to check in with Skunnyk
<Unit193> Don't break it...
<ochosi> oh dear
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> seems like there were never proper release notes for the thing
<knome> whenever skunnyk is mentioned, it's indeed best to make sure anything won't be broken...
<knome> slickymaster, so we kind of didn't do our sprint... but i think it's better to sleep on it anyway
<knome> i'll look at it tomorrow again
<ochosi> Unit193: this would be a potentially nice commit to get into the release too https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-indicator-plugin/commit/?id=311efa7951487e5d5652541543509ae2ed8e7dcf
<ochosi> but then again this may create a very confusing history...
<ochosi> at least for people comparing master and a very cherry-picked release branch
<ochosi> also this one https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-indicator-plugin/commit/?id=f01133757140d6ca42d3dff37394e19260897230
<ochosi> or we may even want this in xubuntu specifically: https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-indicator-plugin/commit/?id=7c3c1e68abd91f054fe02f7ea904d8c904de106a
<ochosi> basically everything but the xfconf stuff :
<ochosi> :p
<ochosi> bluesabre, Unit193 anyway, give me your thoughts on the above ^
<ochosi> i don't mind cherry-picking a branch together for v2.3.4
<Unit193> What *specifically* are we trying to exclude?
<ochosi> the switch to xfconf 4.13
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> crap. i just see now that this is just optional
<Unit193> https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-indicator-plugin/commit/?id=7099de347f70817005725899bfb0f4ccfcc00ef2 this, where it's guarded?
<ochosi> *facepalm*
<Unit193> OK, was a bit confused as I'm *basically* running git.
<ochosi> in that case, nothing i guess. i'll just delete the release branch and do a proper release
<Unit193> (Cherry picked commits.)
<ochosi> we just have to make sure to sell it as bugfix
<ochosi> (square icons may be considered a feature)
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/697152/
<Unit193> So, this means that any future ayatana fixes will take a long time to get released. :/
<ochosi> how so?
<Unit193> Basically, given the attention that the plugin gets, and frequency of release.
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> well, i can do another release anytime if somebody steps up and does the ayatana patches
<Unit193> Should be very easy...
<Unit193> Basically do what xfconf does, with the patch I pushed to Debian?
<ochosi> i know nothing of that
<ochosi> but if you already know what to do, why don't you just propose a patch?
<Unit193> Because I don't know autotools well enough. :P
<ochosi> hah, well i would be one to talk
<ochosi> ok, 2.3.4 released. night everyone
<bluesabre> nice
<ochosi> bluesabre: still remember what i need reviewed from you? i can send you a shortlist as a reminder if you like ;)
<bluesabre> ochosi: that would be super handy
<ochosi> (most of it are settings branches)
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> xfce4-settings-4.12: https://git.xfce.org/users/schuellerf/xfce4-settings/
<ochosi> (contains my mirror fixes cherry-picked for 4.12, a segfault fix and another fix that is already in 4.12 and master)
<ochosi> xfce4-settings-4.13: https://git.xfce.org/users/ochosi/xfce4-settings/log/?h=mirrored-cloned-inconsistent
<ochosi> (baseically the same as above)
<ochosi> xfce4-settings-4.13: https://git.xfce.org/users/ochosi/xfce4-settings/log/?h=find-cursor
<ochosi> the find-cursor implementation for 4.13 (same codebase as for 4.12)
<ochosi> lightdm-gtk-greeter: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/lightdm-gtk-greeter/fix-panel-adwaita/+merge/340773
<ochosi> fixes appearance with adwaita (without breaking e.g. greybird)
<ochosi> i think those are the most important ones
<bluesabre> awesome
<ochosi> and we need to pull in updates to xubuntu-artwork and do another release (at least one before UIF)
<ochosi> i made the checkboxes the same in gtk2 and gtk3 in greybird (finally)
<ochosi> and the radiobuttons too
<bluesabre> nice
<bluesabre> consistency ftw
<ochosi> and another tiny icon fix in elementary-xfce
<ochosi> what would be nice in the power manager btw is checking if light-locker is running in the security tab
<ochosi> and showing an infobar if not
<ochosi> (like i do in notifyd)
<ochosi> but i dunno if i can hack that in for 18.04
<ochosi> maybe for the future
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-10
<ochosi> anyway, really off now ->
<bluesabre> have a good night ochosi
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-indicator-plugin 2.3.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-indicator-plugin-2-3-4-released-tp50777.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<donofrio> so what am I doing wrong https://apaste.info/8x5P
<donofrio> any "service" needed for repo adds?
<Unit193> donofrio: I'd say 'dirmngr' is missing, right?
<donofrio> version 2.2.4 is already installed
<donofrio> -1ubuntu1
<donofrio> now I get this https://apaste.info/dl9H
<Unit193> Odd.  Well you could just get the key and add it in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/
<donofrio> where would the gpg file be , the path is not there once you run the add-apt
<donofrio> dirmngt_ldapservers.conf is missing ;(
<Used2BTracker5> runnuing 18.04; installed dropbox. The icon shows up in the top bar (unlike in 16.04). But when i click with my mouse on the dropbox icon no menu is opened (I expect a menu with "open dropbox folder" etc). Is that by design or should I report that as an issue? And would that then be a dropbox issue or an issue in the status notifier?
<flocculant> Used2BTracker5: it's not by design - but it's also not a Xubuntu issue - there were ways to get the icon working that I used a while back. try https://askubuntu.com/questions/732967/how-to-fix-non-working-dropbox-icon-on-xubuntu-14-04-lts-64
<flocculant> ali1234: thanks - I got sidetracked yesterday when I got back - totally forgot about the blueman thing
<flocculant> bluesabre: did you see the last bit from ali yesterday?
<Unit193> Used2BTracker5: Do you use thunar-dropbox-plugin too?  I personally patched /usr/bin/dropbox, one can patch it to get the indicator fully working or just fully switch to a tray icon.
<ochosi> bluesabre: we should set the new "square" option in indicator, sn-plugin and systray
<Used2BTracker5> flocculant, thanks, will have a look
<Used2BTracker5> flocculant, BTW, it's not the problem " black with a red slashed zero" as described on the site you kindly pointed me to. The right dropbox icon is showing, with the right animation when syncing; and when i hover over it it tells me what it is doing. But the only thing is, that when I click on it it does not open the dropboxmenu. So, would you advice me that this is still the same problem ?
<flocculant> Used2BTracker5: not sure tbh - not something I use
<Used2BTracker5> ok. will look into it more.
<flocculant> :)
<Used2BTracker5> just experienced a crash of bluetooth. When I chose to report the problem, the error report functionality told me the error was already reported, and that the browser would be opened so that I could add extra information. The browser opened, but then showed "Error: page not found".
<Used2BTracker5> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1542829
<ubottu> Error: launchpad bug 1542829 not found
<Used2BTracker5> Any advice on what to do?
<Used2BTracker5> ubottu, indeed
<bluesabre> ochosi: systray has that option?
<flocculant> Used2BTracker5: that generally meens that the bug is a Private one - only the reporter and bug squad people can see it
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<bluesabre> saw the conversation with ali, blueman is to blame then?
<flocculant> bluesabre: looks like 
<flocculant> don't know the best way to test it other than with a hammer - have an iso without and see what happens then :D
<bluesabre> did we create a bug report with the info we found? I might be able to dig in this weekend, fixed blueman once before
<flocculant> didn't do a report as had no idea what to report against
<flocculant> I can from the vanilla install - probably best - then if it goes private I'll change it 
 * flocculant toddles off to do that now while I think about it :p
<flocculant> brb
<Used2BTracker5> flocculant, I didn't know about "private" errors, so I was confused... 
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
<bluesabre> Used2BTracker5: yes, if the bug reported may contain sensitive information or exposes a security risk, it gets marked as private unless the reporter marks it as not or somebody in the bugs team marks it as not
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1754836
<ubottu> bug 1754836 in bluez (Ubuntu) "Failed to activate service " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754836
<flocculant> just going to try and get xsession errors from live session
<flocculant> bluesabre: live doesn't seem to show the same thing for bluez - but added anyway
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
<bluesabre> ochosi: ind looks good, packaged and tested, time to upload :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: np
<flocculant> I perhaps should have been a lot noiser about this 3 months ago lol
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: something else would have broken with it in that time
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin/2.3.4-0ubuntu1
<flocculant> bluesabre: I assume you caught all the new people on tracker - and now have met the new person in here :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: indeed, seen some new nicks
<bluesabre> very nice :)
<flocculant> yup :)
<bluesabre> tested and packaged this too, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/1.6.14-1ubuntu1
<flocculant> awesome 
<ochosi> bluesabre: at least in 4.13 it has it. not sure whether we backported it (could ask ninetls to look into it ;))
<bluesabre> ochosi: seems not, at least with the current stable 4.12.x
<ninetls> ochosi: only 4.13 has it, we haven't backported it
<ochosi> bluesabre: not sure we want another FFe for that
<bluesabre> I consider that more UI than feature
<ochosi> bluesabre: true that. so depends if anyone (ninetls?) feels like backporting
<ochosi> should be doable though
<ochosi> question is whether theres anything else panel-wise we want
<flocculant> ochosi: re panel - next cycle I will revisit the 'flocculant to look at panel changes'
<bluesabre> knome, slickymaster, Unit193... is this an issue?
<bluesabre> warning: failed to load external entity "C/translator-credits.xml"
<bluesabre> warning: failed to load external entity "C/translators.xml"
<bluesabre> other than that, docs are ready to upload
<ochosi> flocculant: cool, i think next cycle we shpuld target the 4.13 panrl
<ochosi> crap. phone.
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> I assume you mean 4.13 panel abnd not 4.13 phone
<flocculant> crap. fat fingers.
<bluesabre> pretty sure he's talbfing about the 3.14 phone
<flocculant> lmao
 * flocculant is trying to get photo's from daughter's iphone :(
<flocculant> next time perhaps she'll listen and not do the whole iHype thing
<ochosi> thanks for all the typos :D
<flocculant> :p
<knome> bluesabre, is what an issue?
<bluesabre> knome: when building the docs, I see
<bluesabre> warning: failed to load external entity "C/translator-credits.xml"
<bluesabre> warning: failed to load external entity "C/translators.xml"
<bluesabre> also this, but that doesn't sound like a significant issue
<bluesabre> [WARN] FOUserAgent - The contents of fo:region-before on page 46 exceed the available area in the block-progression direction by 1450 millipoints. (See position 2:583354)
<knome> bluesabre, i think that's always happened
<knome> yes, don't worry about it
<knome> the first warning is, i imagine, for the english build
<knome> as there should be no translators.xml file
<knome> the other is related to creating the PDF files, but i've checked them numerous times and nothing overlaps any page or other area in a meaningful (or even visible) way, so *shrug*
<bluesabre> knome, thanks!
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/18.04
<knome> np
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [bionic] r645 Strip whitespace from d/changelog and d/rules, update Standa... (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [bionic] r646 Release 18.04 (by Sean Davis)
<flocculant> ochosi: tiny little icon in sn-plugin? https://i.imgur.com/w2PVIVv.png
<flocculant> panel is 26px
<bluesabre> flocculant: try enabling the square icons config option in sn-plug and see if that helps
<flocculant> bluesabre: just moves it a tiny little bit to the right :p
<bluesabre> lol
<flocculant> bug report it? 
<bluesabre> go for it
<flocculant> at least it showed something - not had anything show up in there previously :p
<flocculant> I've never really got which things should show up in these types of plugins
<flocculant> actually when I think about it - the net one I hid was small too
<bluesabre> flocculant: panel version?
<flocculant> 4.12.2
<flocculant> bug 1754854
<ubottu> bug 1754854 in xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin (Ubuntu) "Tiny icon shown in plugin" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754854
<ninetls> ochosi: I can try. most likely, it won't be hard
<ninetls> flocculant: is it gtk or qt version of transmission?
<flocculant> ninetls: gtk I assume - ubuntu version
<bluesabre> guessing it's a bug in the panel height calculation if it's not full width
<ninetls> works on my machine!
<ninetls> but I have xfce4-panel 4.13
<ninetls> I can try to test on 4.12
<ninetls> tried on 4.12 and still couldn't reproduce :/
<slickymaster> bluesabre, I think that error always happens
<Used2BTracker5> I'd like some more directions for testing please. I have been using 18.04 for two days now. I'm using all my normal programmes: firefox, vmware-view-client, dropbox, libreoffice. All's well. Only had a crash in bluetooth, which is already being worked on (if I understand correctly).
<Used2BTracker5> So, as to directions:
<Used2BTracker5> Is there anything I can do? A testcase for an up to date 18.04, which you would like to see?
<Used2BTracker5> Is there an Xubuntu program which I perhaps don't normally use, but which has been misbehaving, and since been updated, which needs a testrun?
<flocculant> Used2BTracker5: it's often quieter here at times on the weekend :p
<flocculant> doing what you've been doing is more or less what I do
<flocculant> what you could do is this: 
<flocculant> go to the release note for 18.04 ( https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.04/release-notes )
<flocculant> check the issues we've noted - make sure they are still issues
<slickymaster> hmm flocculant what ever happened to the packages tracker?
<flocculant> then further down in the Major Updates section - check out all of the new or updated applications we've noted there - and try them out too
<flocculant> also - have a think about usability issues - does the application you're using make life hard? could a change make things easier?
<flocculant> slickymaster: we don't often use it now as it seemed better to try and get people to actually use things in real life
<flocculant> I could enable it for 18.04 but a bit late in the game now as likely changes needed to many testcases 
<slickymaster> thought of it in the sequence of Used2BTracker5 request
<slickymaster> nooooo
<flocculant> yea - I did exactly the same thinking :p
<slickymaster> only 7 corrected so far
<flocculant> anyway - with that - I'm off again for a while
<slickymaster> hf
<flocculant> :)
<Used2BTracker5> Explored my 18.04 a bit for things I wouldn't normally use. Came across something which seems "wrong": http://i.imgur.com/Jqdge9z.png. If I click on details I see this: http://i.imgur.com/Najzu0J.png
<Used2BTracker5> It's not something that's bothering me, but, well, I thought I report it here. :-)
<Used2BTracker5> ((Thank you all for your patience. I'm learning as I go along; only just found out how to use print screen in conjunction with imgur... :-) ))
<Used2BTracker5> https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.04/release-notes is very helpful, thanks
<flocculant> that is a new thing for menulibre - it's telling you it has found issues with menu files
<flocculant> funny how the second shot isn't translated
<flocculant> off again - back early tomorrow - then back in the afternoon
<flocculant> Used2BTracker5: thanks for working with us :)
<Used2BTracker5> Well, the warning message isn't translated either. Luckily I understand english ;-)
<Used2BTracker5> The menu files, which menulibre has found issues with, were not added by me; they apparently are part of the initial installation. As a simple end user I would not know what to do to rectify these menu files.
<Used2BTracker5> Anyway: thank you for your time.
<bluesabre> flocculant: added a work item to fix the issues menulibre finds with launchers to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-b-development
<Used2BTracker5> bluesabre, I reported the issue on launchpad (https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre/+bug/1754888); should I delete that bug report?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1754888 in MenuLibre "Menulibre: invalid desktop files detected!" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> thanks Used2BTracker5, you can keep the bug report, we'll mark it fixed once we've taken care of the issues :)
<Used2BTracker5> you're welcome. Glad to be able to help.
<Used2BTracker5> On 18.04 played around with mate-calc. It crashed without a message. I do have a crash report. I want to report this on launchpad, but need advice; is such a crash report likely to contain private information in any way/ (passwords, ip-adresses, and such)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Any reason not to sync parole?
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-11
<bluesabre> Unit193: can't think of any
<Unit193> Bud!
<Unit193> OK, so may as well sync.
<Unit193> * d/control: add missing b-deps on clutter   might be important-ish and fixes appstream.
<bluesabre> clutter's not available in parole with the current gtk version
<donofrio_> anyone know if and where can get the cloud squishfs file for xubuntu (or will suggested repo's work on normal 18.04 ubuntu?
<Unit193> I am entirely unaware of what a cloud Xubuntu would be.
<donofrio_> um I guess I shoudl just ask are the extra repo's workable with ubuntu 18.04 or are they only 17.04?
<flocculant> ochosi: struggling to remember something :( while back there was a problem moving panle plugins past external ones (I think) seem to have that back - pretty sure it was workinig quite recently
<flocculant> dnd that is - move fine in preferences
<ochosi> that used to be an issur in 4.13 and we resolved it there. part of the problem already existed jn 4.12 and thats what you are seeing now
<ochosi> so that issue was always thete
<ochosi> you just forgot about it becausr in 4.13 it works better now
<ochosi> we should investigate the sn-plugin sizing issue though. was your test on an unmodified install?
<ochosi> and thr issur that ondondil mentioned has been reported on github before, never was able to reproduce it though - presumably a settings issue..?
<flocculant> ochosi: no - the sn-plugin was in this install - I'll try and check in a livesession later
<flocculant> ochosi: maybe - got them checking the ppa version 
<ochosi> hmkay
<ochosi> thanks for checking. if there really is a probpem with snplugin i need to get to it before UIF
<flocculant> I'm off out shortly - will be back lunchtime. I'll look there as soon as I can :)
<ochosi> sure thing
<ochosi> i'll also be off for the day
<flocculant> have a good one
<flocculant> I'll update bug if I find anything
<flocculant> ochosi: managed to check - seems to be local \o/ - so something amongst ppa's doing that
<flocculant> I'm guessing
<Used2BTracker5> not quite sure how this irc is working, so if you've already seen this question above, I'm sorry for repeating it:
<Used2BTracker5> On 18.04 played around with mate-calc. It crashed without a message. I do have a crash report. I want to report this on launchpad, but need advice; is such a crash report likely to contain private information in any way/ (passwords, ip-adresses, and such)
<flocculant> yea saw that last night - but you weren't here to see an answer
<Used2BTracker5> sorry about that
<flocculant> if you report something and it contains private information it will get set to private
<flocculant> you will know because it's a lot of red :)
<Used2BTracker5> I see; that happens automatically then, without me having to do anything special whilst reporting?
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> 2 mins and I'll show you what I mean
<Used2BTracker5> thanks; will head over to launchpad.
<flocculant> Used2BTracker5: you do need to ubuntu-bug mate-calc though
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre ninetls - you can ignore the tiny icon issue for the moment, appears to be local to me
<Used2BTracker5> ah, right. Will try to find out what that is and how it works :-)
<flocculant> https://i.imgur.com/OY9dOdL.png
<flocculant> you won't be able to see that bug - I can and people with permissions on launchpad can
<flocculant> ok - I'm off now for a while - bbl
<Used2BTracker5> have a nice day; am running ubuntu-bug mate-calc as we speak
<ochosi> flocculant: kewl
<bluesabre> ochosi: merged all the -settings branches, anything else you're looking for there in next releases?
<ochosi> bluesabre: awesome. theres one more race condition we identified (on dis/reconnect) that could be fixed, but nothing dramatic
<ochosi> can look into that tonight if you want
<bluesabre> ochosi: sure, if you get a chance go for it
<Used2BTracker5> I need advice (again). I've found unexpected behaviour with the update-manager. I've dropped a question at launchpad whether or not I should report this as a bug. 
<Used2BTracker5> Someone more knowledgeable than me, tells me that the error is the result of a missing dependency.  not sure what that means. So: is this something that I should report as a bug?
<Used2BTracker5> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/665478
<Used2BTracker5> So, I reported the update-manager as a bug. Then I was asked to install install gir1.2-unity-5.0. Which I did. And that solved the issue.
<Used2BTracker5> Point is: I have now extra packages in this installation of Xubuntu 18.04 which are not part of the original set. So my question is: Are any tests I now do, still valid?
<Used2BTracker5> flocculant, just as a test I added you as someone to be notified when this bug is changed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1754986
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1754986 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager: WARNING:root:can not import unity GI Namespace Dbusmenu not available" [Undecided,New]
<Used2BTracker5> I hope you don't mind
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, there's another slightly annoying bug that you may be able to help me track down in display settings...
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you have two displays in extended mode and you take the left one and rotate it, there's suddenly a gap between the two displays. if you click the magic widget somehow the gap goes away and gets fixed. what gives?
<ochosi> bluesabre: the other thing i'd like to do at some point is draw the minimal dialog icons with cairo. that way the user would see what would really happen (cause you can spell out the display names) and the whole "mirror" situation (remember: cloned vs. mirrored) would be corrected
<ochosi> bluesabre: for the rotate issue i haven't even found the relevant code parts yet
<ochosi> knome: up for some drawing?
<donofrio_> How would I heal my ssh keys?  https://apaste.info/yjmF right now I cannot ssh to localhost ;(
<donofrio_> I'm trying to fix this because I'm guessing that is the issue with gpg and repo's
<ochosi> knome: in case you are, i need to scale this to 32px nicely: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/blob/master/gtk-3.0/assets/titlebutton-close.png
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-04
<pragomer> I think xubuntu should think about changing this to a default in the future: opening whiskermenu with super-key AND beeing able to set shortcuts like super+e (=thunar), super+right (tile windows right side), etc....
<pragomer> this is the 1st thing I always set when installing xubuntu and it would be so easy to integrate (i solve it via "ksuperkey" which is just only an executable file in my .autostart folder)
<pragomer> and I think this defaults should make more users happy than vice versa
<pragomer> kind regards
<knome> bluesabre, am aware, but thanks for the reminder :)
<Spass[m]> Whisker Menu on Super key is not that easy to implement (well, it's kind of easy, but it has some side effects) and adding additional thing (like XCAPE) just for this is not a good solution to be included by default, as I used to think.
<Spass[m]> But what I suggest is adding additional shortcut for Whisker Menu, so leave Ctrl+Esc and add Super+Space (this will be familiar for people who were using elementary OS)
<albinard> just tried the disco ISO of 0304, wrote to USB, used Try Before installing, dialog hung at third page (Install updates etc)
<ali1234> is xfce-panel 4.13.4 in any ppa yet?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 19.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-05
<brainwash> bluesabre: it was rejected bug 1796144
<ubottu> bug 1796144 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] xfwm4 4.12.5 for bionic" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1796144
<bluesabre> brainwash, that's disappointing... but I'll put something together to get it back on track
<Unit193> bluesabre: Looks like you just uploaded -settings, don't we want .5?
<bluesabre> Unit193, indeed, no idea how I missed the latest release
<Unit193> xfconf is held up in Debian due to lack of gsettings migration script.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-06
<bluesabre> Unit193, guessing that means if we put one together, we could move it along?
<Unit193> I believe he wanted something a little less manual, but I've had http://paste.openstack.org/show/MpLwGUyhnuW4q27DrsIY for a while now.
<bluesabre> Unit193, I seem to be unable to join #debian-xfce... did it move or something strange?
<bluesabre> or am I there and my client is being funky
<Unit193> You're not identified, it is +r
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> dang
<bluesabre> Unit193, I think that migration script seems reasonable
<Unit193> It's not the fastest, and I'd add vars so one can switch direction too.  "Problem" is that it doesn't import the first time you use the xfconf backend, soo..
 * Unit193 shurgs.
<Eickmeyer> Hi Xubuntu friends! Ubuntu Studio is in danger of disappearing as a flavor. See https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2019-March/002428.html We need help, desperately, and it has to be a MOTU at this time.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-07
<SwissBot> feed platform had 10 updates, showing the latest 7
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Merge branch 'anope' into disco @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=5880fb317bf4ff00976f94e28e018ff3e6fbc477 (by Robie Basak)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: supported-development-common: Add ubuntu-core-libs @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=26f4bcfe1faa23abc5e31516cf545b651ee228ce (by Jeremy Bicha)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed devscripts to supported-development-common. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=679b30411a9fed6c416d22d6b528a2d956625fdc (by Adam Conrad)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Mailman3 is the future. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=8afcf1a8abc1d9f3f9f220de20c02a858bd432e3 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Revert "Mailman3 is the future." @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=fbb2788ded2770b3d500e71ab30271a5bcfdeb46 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: supported-cloud: Seed linux-oracle and friends. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=774c1d624016b33d63ad2fd875a6a6b87887f226 (by Adam Conrad)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Add comment explaining why we are keeping authbind @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=964d273432e7b46dec875926b398db2658f2231e (by Andreas Hasenack)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Add masakari binary packages to misc-servers. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=059389657c86a31580b27fd1202608d142182228 (by Corey Bryant)
<Spass> hi, is there any way to check if a package is installed in Xubuntu by default without checking it in a fresh VM? any "default Xubuntu packages" list available on LP for example?
<Unit193> Check the manifest.
<Unit193> Technically it has what's on the ISO, so has a few more stuff than would be on the final install, but very close.
<Spass> thanks!
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-09
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...I did a thing last night: http://paste.openstack.org/show/XfhKlWudqSp1Bm2jKhDD
<bluesabre> Unit193, oh, nice!
<bluesabre> I should upstream that manpage
<bluesabre> Hoping to tackle this tomorrow morning, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=921835
<ubottu> Debian bug 921835 in xfce4-screensaver "xfce4-screensaver: wastes CPU while the display is off" [Normal,Open]
<bluesabre> and then maybe at the beginning of the 19.10 cycle, we swap xfce4-screensaver in
<Unit193> Ouch.
<Eickmeyer> bluesabre: Is light-locker no longer a thing?
<bluesabre> Eickmeyer, light-locker is unmaintained... it works, but the issues that happen around VT-switching with some hardware will basically persist forever
<Spass> "it works" well not on my machines :)
<Spass> probably because nvidia drivers
<bluesabre> Yeah
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I noticed problems too, especially with wake from sleep.
<bluesabre> I can't reliably close my laptop while running light-locker and expect it to resume later
<Eickmeyer> ^same, bluesabre.
<bluesabre> xscreensaver and (gnome,mate,xfce)-screensaver only vt switch when you switch users, which avoids the various race conditions with resume
<Eickmeyer> I'll have to see if we're using light-locker in our defaults.
<Eickmeyer> By our, I of course mean Studio, but you all know that.
<Spass> xscreensaver works fine on my 18.04 laptop (it's kind of ugly looking tho), I'm really happy about incoming xfce4-screensaver
<Unit193> Spass: Yeah I've been using xscreensaver instead of light-locker, well basically the whole time. :3
<Spass> yep, seems to be very solid
<Unit193> I gave ll a trial on my netbook when we switched to it, but it was too broken for my tastes so I just flipped back. (And basically been maintaining xscreensaver in Ubuntu since '16 I believe.)
<Unit193> ...Upstream is a bit hostile, but we don't have to deal with that.
<Eickmeyer> xscreensaver is effective, if ugly.
<Spass> now I'm used to that fiery head
<Spass> maybe I'll look deeper to change that image in the future, if possible
<Unit193> Wait, I have a disco box, why do I not use xfce4-screensaver on it?!
<bluesabre> Test iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
<bluesabre> :D
 * Eickmeyer uninstalls light-locker, installs xfce4-screensaver...
<Unit193> Yeah except the only computer that gets locked often is on Bionic.
<bluesabre> I'll leave this here... https://docs.xfce.org/apps/screensaver/start
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl (late tonight or tomorrow)
<Eickmeyer> Okay, now to see if it's in the Studio seed...
<Unit193> Backported xfce4-session 4.12.1-6ubuntu1 now so that bionic/cosmic users can more easily do this too.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-10
<bluesabre> Unit193, there we go :) https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-screensaver/commit/?id=8500820637d746437dbf23dee604003bb428f4a5
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-02
<jphilips> will xubuntu also be shipping with the snap version of the software store?
<jphilips> https://t.co/cLSKA5Hm9G?amp=1
<jphilips> anyone have a keyboard that has the 'Homepage' button on it. if so can you press it and see if it launches the browser, as this is broken for me.
<brainwash> jphilips: you mean the action is not working at all regardless of which keyboard shortcut is used?
<bluesabre> jphilips: no to the snap software store, at least for now
<jphilips> brainwash: if you were reply about the super+d shortcut, then no it just doesnt work with super+d and changing it back to the old ctrl+alt+d makes it work
<brainwash> jphilips: it changed it to super+d and it still works
<brainwash> I changed
<jphilips> that's strange
<brainwash> test with a new user account
<brainwash> check your xml file too
<jphilips> tested it on my desktop and my laptop and doesnt work in both
<jphilips> does the 'Homepage' button work for you to open the browser?
<brainwash> I don't have such a button
<brainwash> jphilips: super + d not working for you because you have set only super to open whisker menu?
<jphilips> brainwash: didnt work on the xubuntu live cd when i hadnt set anything :D
<brainwash> jphilips: that's bad
<jphilips> knome: is it possible to get access to the website, so i can make changes
<knome> bluesabre, they should all appear in the media list (iirc), you should be able to (carefully) remove submissions
<knome> jphilips, i'm not the person to decide about that and while technically is of course possible, the xubuntu team usually wants to see sustained contributions to subteams before granting direct rights to access stuff
<knome> jphilips, this is explained in detail in https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/xsd.html#Xubuntu_Team
<knome> but that said, you should ask the more active people whether they are willing to grant you access
<knome> and i would recommend that you make some concrete suggestions first and discuss them with the team
<knome> jphilips, for example, what kind of changes would you be making at this point?
<jphilips> knome: currently looking over the text on the contribute pages and looking to make edits to it, like adding links for quicker access
<knome> again, what kind of edits and what kind of links
<jphilips> for example on the artwork page, adding a link on 'Xubuntu developer mailing list'
<knome> (i'm not opposed to changes, but i'd like to hear)
<knome> most of the subteam pages do not link to that page
<knome> but for the technical implementation, it would be a great candidate for a resuable gutenberg block
<knome> that way we would limit the amount of maintaining required
<jphilips> would also like to add text about the wallpaper contest that is run before each release
<knome> well, i'd vote against that
<knome> pages are for static content, articles for dynamic
<knome> there's no guarantee that the wallpaper contests are ran for every LTS release
<knome> ...even if that's what has happened
<knome> i'm told it's dinner time
<knome> bbl
<jphilips> enjoy
<jphilips> not saying that we'd have to constantly link to a page about the newest contest, but mentioning that there regularly is a contest shouldnt be something we shouldnt mention. we should try to give people visiting these pages as much info about contributing as possible.
<jphilips> i dont mind preparing a modified version of the page text in a google doc for submission and review by those in charge
<jphilips> they can pick and choose what they are okay with and add it
<knome> jphilips, i'm pretty sure everybody would find that more useful since there was something actual to think about :)
<pleia2> jphilips: a good place to start with the website is submitting bug reports for each so we can engage on launchpad about your ideas (syncs with our typical workflow for this)
<pleia2> and that develops your body of work you can point to when you want to apply to join the team ;)
<jphilips> pleia2: got the url for website on launchpad as its not mentioned here - https://xubuntu.org/contribute/marketing
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website
<pleia2> you have submitted a bug to it before :)
<jphilips> thanks
<jphilips> is there a means to submit a patch for review?
<jphilips> looking at the 'code' page, i see 'bzr branch lp:xubuntu-website' but no git repo
<pleia2> yeah, it doesn't use git, it uses bzr
<pleia2> but you'll want a bug report and to discuss it in the bug before proposing changes
<pleia2> (bzr isn't that hard to use, it's similar to git, but easier :))
<jphilips> will work on suggested changes for the artwork page and then file a bug for it and see how the process goes
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is Unit193
<jphilips> has the next meeting been set?
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> JackFrost would have to be bugged to schedule the next meeting
<JackFrost> Nothing on the agenda, no reason yet for a meeting.
<jphilips> JackFrost: i've pushed many of my shortcuts suggestions upstream so it would be good to try to ratify them in xubuntu
<jphilips> the panel height issue should also be voted on
<JackFrost> Perhaps it'd be good to put that on the agneda, so it doesn't look blank.
<jphilips> how and where do i do that
<JackFrost> Ah sure, so the agenda sits at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings, you'd put the topic and your name next to the topic.  I tend to schedule meetings late UTC time.
<jphilips> JackFrost: thanks but i dont see where i can edit the page and add to the agenda
<JackFrost> jphilips: You'll need to be logged in of course, if you have a LP account you can login.
<jphilips> okay logged in, but still dont see how to edit
<JackFrost> Really?  Should be a button at the top right?
<jphilips> i see a arrow button next to the search box
<JackFrost> OK, it finally let me login.  Top *left*, right next to 'info' and 'subscribe'
<jphilips> JackFrost: it shows me 'Immutable Page'
<JackFrost> Paste your title(s) here with your name, I'll add it.  I don't know what's wrong then.
<JackFrost> Thanks for trying.
<JackFrost> (Eg, 'Ensure we have the latest 4.14 releases before freeze - Unit193')
<jphilips> Vote on whether to increase the panel height to 28px or 32px - jphilips
<jphilips> you can also include a link to the mailing list discussion if that is useful - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2019-July/011830.html
<jphilips> Addition of new shortcut keys changed upstream - jphilips
<jphilips> links that can accompany it
<jphilips> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2019-June/011819.html
<jphilips> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16470
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 16470 in General "Improve the default shortcut keys" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed]
<JackFrost> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<pleia2> jphilips: the wiki had a big spam problem, so you need to be part of a specific launchpad team in order to edit, info here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpContents (it's the link under "Help" on the wiki)
<pleia2> (full Ubuntu Members are automatically part of this group, which is why many folks here haven't run into the problem)
<pleia2> once you're approved for the ubuntu-wiki-editors team you'll need to log out, log back in again, and do a hard refresh on your browser
<pleia2> it's annoying :( but the spam was really, really bad
<jphilips> request to join wiki sent
<JackFrost> Ah cool, I remember for the etherpad one had to do that, guess this too.
<pleia2> the primary admin of that team is in the UK so he is probably sleeping by now, let me know if you don't get access
<pleia2> also, this is part of the reason we moved a lot of stuff to our own wiki :)
<JackFrost> Where *we* can be the ones to fight the spam! /s
<JackFrost> (As far as I know, it's not bad.)
<pleia2> hah
<pleia2> I think it's more that we control the whitelist of users, instead of waiting for popey to approve people, and it's faster
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-03
<JackFrost> ochosi: I'm not sure what to do with that statement.
<knome> pleia2, jphilips, we should move to git with the website stuff, but i need to learn about submodules first and see if they work with lp
<jphilips> knome: that would be great. wish we could use github as well, as that would lower the barrier of submitting patches from the community
<jphilips> knome: when you get a chance - https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/1865627
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1865627 in Xubuntu Website "update the artwork contribution page" [Undecided,New]
<knome> i guess, though moving to a corporate-owned thing is not what many people in the open source world want
<knome> (not that LP isn't corporate owned, but it's owned by a company that directly supports this community)
<jphilips> well gitlab then
<jphilips> like gnome
<knome> but that would still mean a huge migration
<bluesabre> Yes. Even for smaller projects like Mugshot, moving to GitHub was a surprisingly tedious project
<bluesabre> But yeah, after moving several bits to git in LP, I found the git support to be overall lacking, and several of the existing LP tools still don't know about git :(
<bluesabre> I'm not opposed to moving, but I don't want to do all the work involved :D
<knome> phew
<knome> i went and wrote a novel in a google docs comment
<knome> sorry
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> jphilips, went ahead and added another comment about gutenberg (which is a lot like what i said here already)
<jphilips> knome: :D
<jphilips> would be good to set 'sort folders before files' in the gtk3 file dialogs, so it is consistent with default behaviour of thunar
<jphilips> ochosi: https://imgur.com/I1Fb1C2.png
<jphilips> we dont have the right icons for 32 and above - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/1865562
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1865562 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "show desktop icon incorrect over 24 px" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> jphilips: interesting, the 48px user-desktop looks fine here
<jphilips> are you using the default icon theme?
<jphilips> i was on the xubuntu 20.04 daily
<ochosi> well i am ofc
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> i see, my thumbnail caches were old :/
<ochosi> seems with the transition to the yellow folders we lost the desktop icons
<ochosi> at least that means they should still exist in git history
<jphilips> doubt you are running the iso :D
<ochosi> that's unnecessary, i build the icons locally before i push them to git
<ochosi> so i'm by definition on the latest version
<JackFrost> Remember that feature freeze has passed, other freezes are coming up.
<jphilips> think we should likely have hellotux have an 18.04 or 20.04 flash drive - https://www.hellotux.com/xubuntu
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-04
<bluesabre> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/focal-fossa-mascot-wallpapers/14621?u=wimpress
<bluesabre> In case you all want to spam the wp contest with fossas :)
<jphilips> bluesabre: should we put out a xubuntu version up - https://twitter.com/m_wimpress/status/1234971029065220097
<bluesabre> jphilips: by all means, feel free to make one :) I'd mess with it, but I'm already done for the night (work spilled over yet again)
<jphilips> bluesabre: how's this look - https://i.imgur.com/QHzOuLO.png
<JackFrost> Hrm, I like the Albatross-era coloring better, but I imagine that's out of style. :3
<jphilips> contact page mentions akxwi-dave as the QA lead. is this accurate?
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: promote runc/containerd to main @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=90fe956db27c595fd3036350a2ad50394091081c (by Christian Ehrhardt)
<jphilips> there is a small visual bug in blueman-assistant but dont know where to file the bug
<JackFrost> Perhaps `reportbug blueman`?
<jphilips> i had gone to blueman, but the code page is blank and wanted to see if i could provide a fix
<jphilips> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blueman
<jphilips> guess i'll just file the bug then
<JackFrost> Sources are on par with Debian, could look at that git (or sources.d.o)
<jphilips> ochosi: is this how software should look with the default them? - https://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers-years/2019-2/xubuntu-ermine-software.jpg
<jphilips> theme*
<jphilips> JackFrost: where can i find the sources?
<JackFrost> It doesn't appear to be maintained in git for Debian, but there's always https://sources.debian.org/src/blueman/2.1.2-1/ and upstream's git: https://github.com/blueman-project/blueman
<JackFrost> Of course, on Ubuntu you can always do `apt-get source blueman`
<jphilips> JackFrost: thanks. filed the bug there
<jphilips> also thanks for the tidbit about apt-get source
<JackFrost> Sure thing.  Note that pulls the source for whatever release you're on, in ubuntu-dev-tools there's `pull-lp-source` too. :)
<bluesabre> Didn't know about `pull-lp-source`
<jphilips> when community members to QA testing, is there a main launchpad bug reports page that we could direct them to submit to?
<jphilips> as we are no longer putting out i386 releases, is this still necessary - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/408/builds/208275/testcases
<jphilips> assume LTS upgrade for bionic will only appear after focal comes out - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/408/builds/208276/testcases
<jphilips> not sure who to report this to, but i think 'No Network' should be changed to 'Install (No Network)' on the testing tracker page - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/408/builds/208502/testcases
<ochosi> jphilips: yes, that's what i would expect (re: software looks)
<jphilips> ochosi: read a review and the reviewer assumed software wasnt picking up the theme correctly
<ochosi> meh, that "focal" metaphor with the dotted lines is a little cheesy :/
<jphilips> "Software is basically stock Gnome thing - including its own window decorations; it ignores the system theme."
<ochosi> right, no, that looks ok
<ochosi> and yeah, that's CSD
<jphilips> this part "it ignores the system theme."
<jphilips> the pic was from the review
<ochosi> well the window manager (xfwm4) draws the decorations if it's server-side decorations, but in this case Gnome Software (as most of gnome apps) uses client-side decorations (CSD) which are drawn by the toolkit instead
<ochosi> but anyway, no bug there
<jphilips> he mentioned "The contrast is appalling - soft gray on soft gray plus white."
<jphilips> https://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers-years/2019-2/xubuntu-ermine-software-repo-info.png
<jphilips> he's not talking about the CSD
<ochosi> a-ha, right, that may be some custom styles
<ochosi> not sure about that
<ochosi> you can check with gtk-inspector (aka Ctrl+Shift+d)
<jphilips> shortcut didnt do anything
<ochosi> depends on whether it's generally enabled
<jphilips> software looks good quite nice in greybird-dark
<ochosi> or whether something else "eats" the shortcut
<jphilips> running the live iso
<ochosi> in x11 every client can grab any key
<jphilips> checked the shortcuts in keyboard and window manager and dont see anything assigned to that shortcut
<jphilips> well if you ever get a chance to check it out, please do, else not a biggy
<ochosi> what can i say, it works here
<ochosi> https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Projects/GTK/Inspector?action=show&redirect=Projects%2FGTK%2B%2FInspector
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-05
<bluesabre> Exceptionally so, and I love it. :D
<bluesabre> (the focal metaphor)
<bluesabre> Scrolling is for not-seans
<JackFrost> I appear to be a not-Sean! :'(
<JackFrost> Is it better being a Sean?
<bluesabre> Congrats
<bluesabre> Definitely
<JackFrost> Dang.
<bluesabre> But I'm biased
<bluesabre> What's up Mr. Frost?
<JackFrost> Spring is upon us, misery is here. :>
<JackFrost> ...Had a bird attack today too.
<bluesabre> :D
<JackFrost> And more on topic, Core is still broken, I have no idea why thus no idea how to fix it. \o/
<bluesabre> That's fun!
<JackFrost> (I'd take snakes over having to deal with birds any day.)  Yeeeah..
<bluesabre> Any potential leads for the issue?
<bluesabre> I've had birds land on my head on more than one occasion
<JackFrost> Ah, this was getting a bird out where it shouldn't be.  Luckily this time I didn't get crapped on, that's happened in the past a few times.  Nope, not really.
<JackFrost> I think I'll ask you a thing in another channel.
<bluesabre> Oh boy
<jphilips> JackFrost: is there an ubuntu core for LTS?
<jphilips> the webpage needs a correction as its not "about 600MB" anymore :D
<jphilips> close to 800
<jphilips> also wont be able to "fit on a CD" :D
<jphilips> it mentions 'See also Appendix A of the Xubuntu docs' and assume this is what you mean - http://unit193.net/xubuntu/docs/user/C/appendix-packages.html
<jphilips> but that isnt any different than what comes with the full version
<JackFrost> jphilips: Hah, that indeed is very true, unfortunately and annoyingly.  Some things are either missing or not included in Core, that appendix gives ideas for what features you may want but are missing.  Of course, it's now out of date..
<JackFrost> jphilips: As far as "Did I generate 18.04 Xubuntu Core?" Yes, I did.  Been doing it for quite a few releases now.
<jphilips> JackFrost: cant find a download for it
<jphilips> only 19.10 is on the download page
<JackFrost> Right, only the latest is included.
<JackFrost> I generate torrents every time, I could perhaps find the correct magnet for that.
<JackFrost> bluesabre: 'initramfs unpacking failed: write error' is the only hint.
<JackFrost> jphilips: Did you end up getting in touch with popey, in regards to editing wiki?
<jphilips> yes someone here gave me edit access to the docs and i made my first change to the window manager dialog page
<jphilips> sorry my bad, that was the xfce docs :D
<JackFrost> With regards to your request for help on the mailing list, I don't imagine you'll get the QA lead to pop up, he's been missing for a little while unfortunately.
<jphilips> no havent gotten access to the xubuntu wiki
<JackFrost> OK.
<jphilips> pinged him now on telegram
<jphilips> so with the QA lead gone, i'll have to rely on the rest of the team to guide me through this task
<jphilips> how have other QA testing sprints with contributors gone?
<JackFrost> Well, for milestones an email is sent out, and people file test results on the tracker.
<JackFrost> So it turns out I'm an idiot, nice.
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Nevermind, turns out we need to replace the user and press any key to continue.
<JackFrost> Freaking....Sigh.
<JackFrost> ...Though I guess that's good news.
<jphilips> the email is sent out the user and dev mailing list
<jphilips> out to* the
<JackFrost> jphilips: And some people like guiverc pitch in on those milestones, since they're general Ubuntu testing milestones.
<jphilips> so the alphas and the betas
<JackFrost> RCs and such.
<albinard> Installed the 0305 ISO of Xubuntu Core 20.04 on HP p7-1010, AMD64, BIOS, 6GB RAM.  Smooth, successful installation, added some software, currently running well.
<jphilips> albinard: sounds great. are you reporting it on the iso test page?
<albinard> No option for reporting on the Unit193 ISO version directly.  I didn't use the minimal ISO plus.
<JackFrost> jphilips: FWIW, Xubuntu Core is considered a community effort only, there's no support on the tracker for reporting tests or anything really.  Emery has been great the past few releases and tests all the builds, letting me know if something is amiss.  He usually sends email but sometimes pops up on IRC for a minute.
<jphilips> got it
<jphilips> look forward to getting access to the 18.04 core torrent
<JackFrost> Ah, so you *do* want that.
<jphilips> if it was listed on the download page, i would have grabbed it and presume most people would prefer to download the LTS of core
<JackFrost> Found the 18.10 link...
<JackFrost> Looks like I'd have to re-generate that, I didn't link the magnet in here or -ot it seems.
<JackFrost> Keeping the LTS releases would indicate one re-generates them on the point release, due to specific reasons I don't do this.  So I just stick with normal releases.
<jphilips> knome: think it would be good to have two columns for the download links on the download page. 1 for the lts and 1 for the non-lts.
<jphilips> would be good to add magnet links alongside the torrent files
<JackFrost> jphilips: OK, so getting back to your remarks about the Xubuntu Core intro.  That was taken from an email a long time ago, and obviously I haven't touched it since.  Looks like I should just drop those two statements and be done with it.
<jphilips> JackFrost: drop or modify
<jphilips> would it be acceptable to link to it from the download page, so more would be aware of it?
<JackFrost> Listing size there doesn't really add benefit, and as you noted it won't fit on a CD.
<JackFrost> For what it's worth, the release announcement tends to link it.
<jphilips> so i guess the assumption will be that it will continue to increase and increase
<jphilips> would presume most dont read the release announcement. they come to the website, go to the download page and look for links.
<JackFrost> 19.10 was 773M, 20.04 so far is 819M. :/
<JackFrost> And yeah, I realize not everyone reads those.  I'm perhaps a bit biased, so shouldn't comment whether to link from the official downloads page or not.  In the past we haven't stressed it since it's not "official"
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-power-manager 1.7.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-power-manager-1-7-0-released-tp57587.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-06
<jphilips> knome: on the help page, can you change the askubuntu link to https://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/xubuntu
<jphilips> running the daily ISO from a few days back and got a crash in libxfce4panel, tried to report and it says i got obsolete packages for gcc-10-base, etc. :D
<JackFrost> \o/
<jphilips> knome: also if you can change the 'Desktop Environments' link to https://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=329&pp=20&prefixid=xubuntu&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1
<jphilips> and remove ' â use Xfce or Xubuntu as the tag to help categorize your request'
<jphilips> xfce tag stopped being used in 2016
<jphilips> please also remove 'You can also add your support question in Launchpad Answers. '
<knome> jphilips, why remove launchpad answers?
<knome> otherwise suggestions are good and page is updated (and gutenbergized fwiw)
<jphilips> this still there ' â use Xfce or Xubuntu as the tag to help categorize your request'
<knome> right...
<knome> missed that then
<knome> done
<jphilips> about launchpad answers, it isnt xubuntu specific, but if you feel it should still be there, please move the sentence after the askubuntu sentence
<jphilips> maybe also add a link for easy access to the offtopic channel - https://webchat.freenode.net/#xubuntu-offtopic
<jphilips> does xubuntu come with any event sounds by default or do i have to install some even after checking the boxes in the appearance dialog
<brainwash> jphilips: I think the "default" theme is available by... default 
<brainwash> sound theme
<brainwash> sound-theme-freedesktop 0.8-2ubuntu1
<jphilips> enabling sound effects on 19.10 and restarting does nothing
<brainwash> you did not read the check box tooltip, did you?
<jphilips> was looking through this guide - https://askubuntu.com/questions/1156774/how-to-enable-event-sounds-on-xubuntu
<brainwash> I've commented on some launchpad report about this
<jphilips> installing canberra, i did that and still no luck
<brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1321445/comments/20
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1321445 in xfce4-session (Fedora) "enable sound events in xfce4-appearance-settings doesn't work" [Medium,In progress]
<jphilips> login and logout sound aint working either
<brainwash> the steps mentioned in my comment worked for me
<brainwash> well, back then
<brainwash> it's not too long ago though
<jphilips> saw your comment and the patch removed the sounds for window sounds
<brainwash> and the info in the next comment?
<brainwash> how do you test sounds?
<jphilips> will test it and see
<jphilips> this shouldnt be made so difficult for users
<brainwash> [Sound Theme]
<brainwash> Name=Default
<brainwash> maybe it has to be a capital D
<brainwash> that would be pretty odd though
<jphilips> not sure where the above relates to
<brainwash> jphilips: the xfconf-query command
<jphilips> okay tried default, Default, and freedesktop and still no work
<jphilips> did everything in the comment 21
<brainwash> maybe muted in pavucontrol?
<brainwash> and again, how do you test?
<jphilips> no not muted
<jphilips> i log out and log back in
<brainwash> startup sound?
<jphilips> yes
<brainwash> is Xfce supposed to play that one?
<jphilips> i installed the gnome-session-canberra package
<jphilips> and session & startup has luanch gnome services on startup checked
<brainwash> don't think that this helps
<brainwash> can't you test something different? maybe even create those window event sounds and test them
<jphilips> okay will try those
<jphilips> download the .oga's from the git commit and put it in and still no working
<brainwash> jphilips: I will test it myself then
<jphilips> finally got it working. had to manually add the entry into session & startup and create an xfce4-session like steps 8 and 9 suggest
<jphilips> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1156774/how-to-enable-event-sounds-on-xubuntu
<brainwash> you still talking about login sound?
<jphilips> yes login and logout. the window sound effects never materialized
<brainwash> yikes
<brainwash> you can obviously add autostart launchers to do that job
<jphilips> i've noticed different times that xiccd goes haywire and takes up an entire cpu core. just now there were 4 of those processes going eating up 100% of my cpu
<brainwash> hint: autostart launcher can be triggered on logout too
<jphilips> was thinking to do that, but just followed the guide :D
<brainwash> however... no even cares about login/logout sounds?!
<brainwash> I can understand that having a sound effect when an error dialog pops up can be useful
<brainwash> or a bell sound for notifications
<brainwash> so, I get no event sounds here also
<brainwash> I wonder if this is a gtk2 vs gtk3 thing
<brainwash> jphilips: sounds do work. I noticed the error sound when an error dialog popped up.
<brainwash> however, only the window-unmaximized one of all window events works
<jphilips> brainwash: wish i was so lucky. if you have a new set up steps to try, i'd be glad to test them
<brainwash> no trash sound either
<brainwash> you got window-unmaximized.oga?
<brainwash> I simply created a symlink to bell.org
<brainwash> ehm.. bell.oga
<brainwash> note that you have to have "input feedback sounds" enabled
<brainwash> in case you disabled those due to testing
<brainwash> the checkbox below the "event sounds" one
<jphilips> brainwash: yes both checkboxes were always enabled
<jphilips> windows-unmaximized.oga is in the folder
<jphilips> also have bell.oga
<jphilips> knome: should we consider having the irc links go to kiwiirc.com for a better looking irc ui
<brainwash> jphilips: if you want to waste time on that issue, you could check if you can get it to work in xubuntu 18.04
<jphilips> brainwash: not planning to spend any more time on it. i'll leave it to the devs to try and fix
<brainwash> so, to no one
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-07
<jphilips> is there a general launchpad page for submitting bugs
<jphilips> maybe this one - https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev
<jphilips> would be good to link to it on the website
<jphilips> knome: ^^^
<brainwash> jphilips: that is a launchpad user
<brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-bugs
<jphilips> brainwash: thanks
<brainwash> you can subscribe ~xubuntu-bugs to any (xubuntu related) bug report, but not sure if anyone even cares about that
<jphilips> someone on twitter saying they found a bug regarding language installation and i wanted to give him a link to submit it to
<jphilips> so devs dont normally check any places specifically for xubuntu bugs
<jphilips> need to restart :D
<brainwash> jphilips: one can always just open a bug report against no package
<brainwash> and hope that someone will reassign it accordingly
<jphilips> is anyone in the team regularly looking at bugs filed there?
<brainwash> jphilips: I would say no
<brainwash> ideally, Xfce bugs should go straight to the Xfce bug tracker
<jphilips> brainwash: yep xfce bugs should definitely do so, but regular users wouldnt be able distinguish this
<jphilips> if most of the dev work is upstream and other xfce distros are getting the same upstream improvements, how are we differentiating ourselves from other xfce distros, of course other than being an official ubuntu flavour?
<brainwash> jphilips: two Xfce core devs are in the Xubuntu team
<jphilips> yes i'm aware of bluesabre and ochosi being part of xubuntu, but their work goes upstream and doesnt make xubuntu unique
<brainwash> but they customize xubuntu
<jphilips> can you give me some unique customizations in xubuntu
<brainwash> unique?
<brainwash> it's more a out-of-the-box experience
<brainwash> what differentiation do you really need?
<brainwash> you have ubuntu + nice looking Xfce setup
<brainwash> tested by those two Xfce devs
<jphilips> well MX Linux has its tools app - https://mxlinux.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Tools.jpg
<brainwash> how is that related to Xfce?
<jphilips> they have a quick installer similar to ubuntu mate's software boutique - https://mxlinux.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/MXPI.jpg
<jphilips> not xfce related, distro related that make it unique
<brainwash> xubuntu has ubuntu's live kernel patching
<brainwash> or the snap infrastructure
<jphilips> unique to the ubuntu family, but not unique to just xubuntu
<brainwash> doesn't that apply to your examples as well?
<brainwash> we are talking distro vs. distro now
<jphilips> to some degree yes, but to the regular joe user, those wouldnt be something that would matter
<brainwash> xubuntu is not a distribution, but a spin/flavor of ubuntu
<jphilips> okay so xubuntu verses another xfce distro that is also ubuntu based like linux mint
<jphilips> true, but we could have apps that could make us unique from other xfce distros, as it wouldnt be in upstream xfce
<brainwash> sounds like a stupid idea
<brainwash> you have to keep in mind that someone has to maintain the software
<brainwash> making it somewhat exclusive to only xubuntu... uhm
<brainwash> also, others could still take it and package it for their distribution
<brainwash> it's FOSS
<jphilips> yes of course, was just going to say that
<brainwash> from the past I can list one difference though
<brainwash> xubuntu did package some components from the Xfce dev branch while everyone was waiting for the next stable release
<brainwash> because it took so long
<brainwash> Arch linux was still on Xfce 4.12 while Xubuntu had 4.13 to some degree
<jphilips> interesting, as i would have thought that arch would always be bleeding edge
<brainwash> but it sticks to stable releases
<brainwash> 4.13 was the development release (for a long time)
<jphilips> yep i remember
<jphilips> so does xubuntu do that these days as well. i would love to see my master patches arrive in 20.04
<brainwash> no
<brainwash> certainly not for 20.04 LTS
<jphilips> well maybe i should focus more on stuff that will effect the LTS then
<brainwash> bug fixes
<brainwash> things that will easily get accepted into the stable branch (4.14)
<jphilips> not sure i'm finding any bugs that could get backported, as most of my bugs are usability bugs and is being classified as an enhancement
<jphilips> knome: what do you think about having a review page, both text and video reviews. i could gather them together in a google doc.
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfburn 0.6.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfburn-0-6-2-released-tp57614.html (by Rene Kjellerup)
<JackFrost> There's no reason to horde things for ourselves, catfish, mugshot, and menulibre all more or less came from Xubuntu (light-locker too, and elementary-xfce as well as Greybird if you want to go into artwork) but were mostly pushed upstream and maintained there too so that it would benefit more people.
<JackFrost> openSUSE even took greybird and made a dark version, and now has been working with the shimmer project to get it back upstream so *we* benefit from that.
<jphilips> definitely isnt a way to horde it as its foss, but great to see that many of the apps came from xubuntu to upstream, just wish xubuntu had some unique apps that it could be touted for
<jphilips> have a good night all.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-08
<knome> jphilips, you mean like the press page we already have?
<knome> or something else?
<jphilips> knome: yep that page looks fine. strange i had visited it before as it was in my history but didn't notice it in the menu when i was thinking about it
<jphilips> did you want to add press entries for non LTS releases?
<jphilips> now i remember, i was only looking under 'The Blog' thinking that it would have been under there. ;D
<knome> yes, the goal is to have links for all releases if contributors have the time and energy
<jphilips> knome: okay will rounds some up for you to copy and paste
<knome> cheers
<jphilips> does the new Super + D keyboard shortcut introduced with 19.10 work with anyone, as it doesn't for me on the 19.10 live cd or installed
<jphilips> bluesabre: ^^^
<jphilips> tested it also in onboard and doesnt work their either
<jphilips> brainwash: i visited https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-bugs but there is no means to file a bug there
<brainwash> as said earlier, it's a user/group
<brainwash> not a package or project
<jphilips> oh okay. so do we have a bug reporting url
<brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/
<knome> bugs should be filed against the specific projects
<brainwash> or via cli "ubuntu-bug <package>"
<jphilips> so which package is the shortcuts in so i can file the bug for the broken super + d shortcut
<knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings probably
<jphilips> thanks
<jphilips> its would be nice to have a central bug reporting place like xfce
<jphilips> it* would
<knome> even in the xfce bugzilla you will have to select the product/project/app
<jphilips> quite easy to do that
<jphilips> its filed, can anyway confirm - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1866537
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1866537 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Show desktop shortcut doesnt work" [Undecided,New]
<jphilips> knome: 19.10 press is done - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qenHqnop4DWne2DsX5nPgaN7xdJLzL6etb0gfBGL6fk/edit#heading=h.pwohkmbiulx1
<jphilips> brainwash: did you get to see my proposal for a welcome app - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2020-February/011866.html
<jphilips> ochosi: when do you plan to announce the winners of the wallpaper contest. i see ubuntu studio announced theirs yesterday
<Eickmeyer[m]> jphilips: We started ours (Ubuntu Studio) much earlier.
<jphilips> Eickmeyer[m]: how long did it run for?
<Eickmeyer[m]> jphilips: One month.
<Eickmeyer[m]> ochosi might be doing it differently though. Can't use other team's methods as benchmarks.
<knome> our contest is ran by a wordpress plugin that handles the submissions and voting, so there will be no overhead time used to move stuff around once we've closed submissions
<jphilips> okay i see the announcement says that winners will be announced at the end of the month
<jphilips> Eickmeyer[m]: was watching popey the other day look over ubuntu studio
<Eickmeyer[m]> jphilips: I saw it afterwards. Sadly, it pointed out to me that I hadn't updated the default settings even though I thought I had. :D
<jphilips> thats why we love testers :D
<Eickmeyer[m]> Indeed. :D
<Eickmeyer[m]> I would've caught it eventually, but I felt like a total bot in that moment. :D
<jphilips> Eickmeyer[m]: let me know if you want me to kick the tires of it at any point
<jphilips> knome: 19.04 reviews added to the doc
<brainwash> jphilips: I still don't know if a welcome app is necessary. in any case, it's not very likely that one would make it into 20.04 (but I may be wrong).
<knome> no way one will make it to 20.04
<knome> maybe a point release, but not sure how pointless (no pun intended) that would be
<jphilips> brainwash: if most distros are doing it, there must be a benefit of it for new users. maybe some new contributors may stop by because of it.
<brainwash> does stock ubuntu do it?
<knome> tbh, that's bad argumentation
<knome> "because everybody else does it, it must be good"
<knome> also, while i think this could be definitely beneficial for some users, i don't think it's a tool (that should be used) for contributor luring
<brainwash> don't the installer slides already inform about those things?
<knome> yep
<knome> we don't have any data on how many people actually sit on front of the screen looking at that though
<brainwash> in any case, "someone" would have to work on that welcome app, then it could be tested
<knome> yep
<jphilips> brainwash: yes stock does as well
<jphilips> but i think its more of a first start setup or something like that
<jphilips> about the installer slides, yes that definitely might be helpful but not everyone will notice them or know that the underline text on the slides are clickable
<brainwash> a brief tutorial?
<brainwash> https://www.linuxbabe.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/upgrade-ubuntu-17.04-to-18.04-command-line.png
<jphilips> found it https://youtu.be/YOUwdhNbHtk?t=1409
<jphilips> was watching popey
<jphilips> but yes that 'what's new in ubuntu' would be another example of ubuntu introducing users to itself
<jphilips> guess i should download and install 18.04 to see what different slides are in the what's new dialog
<jphilips> guess for users who are upgrading from unity to then get the shock of gnome, you'd definitely need a what's new dialog
<jphilips> okay found it - https://youtu.be/ONXfL6evR0Q?t=69
<jphilips> guess its the same as popey's accept for the first slide
<jphilips> if you look in popey's video it says in the top bar 'Welcome to Ubuntu' but the CSD top bar says 'Online Accounts' which confused me till now
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-power-manager 1.6.6 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-power-manager-1-6-6-released-tp57659.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<ochosi> JackFrost: since it's just bugfix i guess this is still ok to go into 20.04? ^
<JackFrost> We're behind with a few releases actually, but I'd think so (not having seen the changelog yet.)
<ochosi> it's rather short :)
<ochosi> really? where are we at?
<ochosi> and why
<ochosi> oh, we're at 1.6.5, that's alright
<ochosi> or what did you mean exactly?
<ochosi> (or did you refer to my comment in the other channel?)
<JackFrost> -settings and -session I think are also behind, with others (listed on xfce414.html page.)
<ochosi> i was considering doing another for settings and panel
<JackFrost> xfburn, clipman, -settings, -session.
<ochosi> could we get the latter three updated at least?
<ochosi> (if i promise to take care of statusnotifier)
<JackFrost> Heh, it's the last two I don't like touching. :P
<JackFrost> Specifically, session.
<ochosi> really? why?
<ochosi> it's not exactly containing invasive changes
<ochosi> ("fix crash at logout" sounds re-assuring, no? :))
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin 0.2.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin-0-2-2-released-tp57661.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<JackFrost> :o
<JackFrost> ochosi: There just seems like a lot of cruft in the packaging bit, upstart leftovers that we didn't add.
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> right, i'm obviously not aware of the packaging part
<JackFrost> And run-systemd-session was never my favorite. :3
<JackFrost> (Bottom of http://deriv.debian.net/Ubuntu/patches/x/xfce4-session/xfce4-session_4.13.1-2_xfce4-session_4.13.2-0ubuntu1.debian.patch)
<ochosi> not much i can do to help there i guess
<JackFrost> Nope, never said it was your fault. :D
<JackFrost> ...But if it makes you feel better I guess we could blame you..?
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> rather not
<ochosi> i just hope all the work i put into doing 4.14 patch releases ends up in the distro i use :>
<ochosi> (i think compared to 4.12 we're doing a pretty great job already)
<ochosi> (or 4.10)
<JackFrost> Doing -settings now.
<ochosi> \o/
<JackFrost> Done.
<ochosi> oh also - xfdesktop
<ochosi> we're still on 4.14.1 in focal
<JackFrost> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/4.14.2-1?
<JackFrost> !info xfdesktop4 focal
<ubottu> xfdesktop4 (source: xfdesktop4): Xfce desktop background, icons and root menu manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.14.2-1 (focal), package size 159 kB, installed size 679 kB
<ochosi> ok weird, my bad
<JackFrost> https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/xfce414.html
<ochosi> somehow packages.ubuntu tricked me (i guess i forgot to reset the dropdown for the distro version one time)
<JackFrost> Ah, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/SOURCEPACKAGE is a better view.
<JackFrost> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/wealias/ : alias = uts,  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/%s
<JackFrost> alias = pts,  https://packages.qa.debian.org/%s
<JackFrost> alias = npts,  https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/%s
<ochosi> mm, nice
<ochosi> woot, debian already switched to a few 4.15 releases??
<ochosi> (i guess this is exp)
<ochosi> (not testing)
<JackFrost> Experimental, indeed.
<ochosi> alrighty, time to call it a night..
<ochosi> thanks for picking up settings, xfpm, statusnotifier and clipman!
<ochosi> ;D
<JackFrost> I'm actually looking at xfburn. :P
