#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-14
<jrwren> nixternal: you are not smart or informed for saying mono is the devil and that microsoft will sue you.
<nixternal> you didn't catch the sarcasm I take it
<jrwren> nope
<jrwren> rick_h_: how was Hilary Mason's keynote?
<snap-l> fuck daylight savings time in the neck
<tjagoda> Ohai
<wolfger> morning
<tjagoda> sup?
<wolfger> reading up on Japan's nuclear reactor explosion
<wolfger> also reading about pot calling kettle black. (Palin tells union bosses to "tone down the rhetoric".... bwahahahahah)
<tjagoda> wow
<snap-l> I'm not liking that this is reigniting the debate over nuclear power
<snap-l> but that's dwarfed by my sadness for Japan
<snap-l> Better get it while it's hot: http://oreilly.com/catalog/9781449303167/
<snap-l> Code: DDXSW
<snap-l> http://oreilly.com/store/dd-sxsw.html
<wolfger> snap-l: Just wait until a giant radioactively mutated lizard starts wreaking havoc...
<snap-l> Best feature in the world: VOIP caller blocking
<snap-l> Had some chucklefuck call me at 8:30am
<snap-l> http://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-480-346-5120
<brousch> chucklefuck?
<snap-l> 1) A bumbling, stupid, inept person.
<snap-l> 2) A confusing mess; a conundrum; any chaotic situation
<snap-l> 3) A person of low intelligence who gets himself into a comical quandary.
<brousch> ah, so not a person you bang for giggles?
<snap-l> No, it's not clownsex
<snap-l> and now I'm off for my lobotomy
<wolfger> Hope it comes out alright
<brousch> wait a minute, snap-l aren't you a clown?
<brousch> so your wife is having clownsex
<snap-l> brousch: I'm a juggler
<snap-l> not a clown
<snap-l> and don't you EVER call me a clown again
<snap-l> I've met some clowns. They are scary people.
<brousch> ah, sorry
<snap-l> 's OK
<snap-l> not all clowns are scary people, but there are some that are seriously tortured souls
<_stink_> morning
<wolfger> LOL. I know a married couple that are/were both clowns
<wolfger> speaking of clowns....
<wolfger> "It took approximately 18 minutes for Sheen's My Violent Torpedo of Truth/Defeat is Not an Option tour to sell out at Detroit's Fox Theatre shortly after the April 2 event went on sale at 10 a.m. Saturday."
<_stink_> wow.
<snap-l> I didn't know the circus was coming to town
<snap-l> Open Metalcast released: http://openmetalcast.com/2011/03/14/open-metalcast-episode-16-live-in-front-of-a-studio-audience/
<snap-l> OK, I think identi.ca may be getting some legs after all
<snap-l> since I just saw someone that's not related to OSS hop on there
<snap-l> We'll see if he sticks around or not
<greg-g> snap-l: cool
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> they come for the free, and get sick of the freedom
<greg-g> or something
<snap-l> Much more activity recently
<brousch1> any of you east siders going to tedxum? http://tedxuofm.com/
<wolfger> Seriously? They did a mashup of the Chrysler wings and the Joe Louis fist for a new "Imported From Detroit" logo? http://www.collection.chrysler.com/dept_prod.asp?dept_id=112
<brousch1> it's like a mugger's hand holding two knives
<brousch1> sounds like detroit to me
<brousch1> turn it 90 degrees and call it "Detroit: we gonna cut you!"
<rick_h_> jrwren: it was really good
<rick_h_> great keynote
<binbrain> rick_h_ whens the pycon podcast coming out?
<snap-l> binbrain: There's already one up
<snap-l> I have another one finished (I believe) and one more to work on today.
<wolfger> oh, by the way, happy Pi Day, everybody
<rick_h_> happy pi day
<rick_h_> binbrain: yea, working on them
<rick_h_> my day 1 review is up, didn't get to a day2/3 yet
<binbrain> listening now
<wolfger> day 1 seemed to end rather abruptly
<rick_h_> yea, I was tired, long long day
<wolfger> on the other hand, I was listening to it streaming on my phone, and my phone has not had a network ever since I got to work today, so maybe I just abruptly lost connection...
<snap-l> I've decided to go 100% with Twitter clients instead of using the Twitter web page
<snap-l> if they ever break that, I'll be off Twitter. :)
<Blazeix> snap-l: speaking of twitter clients, I think whatever client you use might be a little bugged for twitter.
<Blazeix> the past couple of tweets from you have tweeted the same thing twice, swapping out '!' for '#' hash tag signifiers.
<snap-l> I'm using identi.ca
<snap-l> and since twitter doesn't support groups, they get turned into #groupname
<Blazeix> ah. but it tweets both the tweets with '!' and '#' to twitter.
<snap-l> Really?
<snap-l> Or are you following me on identi.ca?
<Blazeix> no, I don't have an identi.ca account
<snap-l> 1) That's not    good. Sorry about that. and 2) Boo... get an identi.ca account. ;)
<Blazeix> http://twitter.com/squeekyhoho/status/47136262108356608 and http://twitter.com/squeekyhoho/status/47136230164541440
<Blazeix> maybe one's from gwibber and the other is from an identi.ca/twitter integration?
<snap-l> Oh fuck
<snap-l> My fault. :)
<snap-l> I turned on twitter posting
<snap-l> Thanks for letting me know!
<Blazeix> no problem. It doesn't occur too often, only on the tweets with groups, I guess.
<snap-l> Yeah, otherwise twitter ignores the dupe
<wolfger> Dear Mr. Shuttleworth... TL;DR  :-p
<brousch1> osx users, this is awesome. ubuntu users, get to work on a linux port. http://chetansurpur.com/projects/sidestep/
<snap-l> Next person who uses TL;DR gets a STFU
<wolfger> Got to the part where I thought he was almost done, realized I was only about a third of the way through, quit reading
<snap-l> brousch1: That should be pretty straightforward to do
<snap-l> though I wonder who gets the proxy traffic. ;)
<snap-l> (and yes, they mention the ones that they use)
<brousch1> use your own
<brousch1> i just hooked it up to my always-on home "server"
<wolfger> nixternal: I like the systems you're thinking about buying. Next time you're running into a store to buy something real quick, and leaving your new laptop in the car, let me know, k? :-)
<nixternal> roger that
<Milyardo> Indeed, can you get me a latte while in there? No Decaf, that stuff is weak
<Milyardo> and someother stuff that will take you longer enough so wolfger has time to break your drive encrption while you're in there
<wolfger> Heh. We can work on breaking the encryption later
<wolfger> I mean, if you really want... I just want the sweet hardware. My laptop kinda sucks.
<wolfger> We can ghost the drive before I blow it away, and take our time brute-forcing it.
<snap-l> Anyone looking for a copy of Dominion?
<snap-l> I have one for sale if someone is interested.
<wolfger> Pirate alert. Snap-l is selling copies... ;-)
<snap-l> yes, because I sure as hell don't have the masters for Dominion. :-P
<wolfger> what about Masters of the Universe?
<snap-l> We just pirate that shit because CSS is evil. ;)
<snap-l> ask jcastro
<brousch1> wolfger: damn you. now he man is stuck in my head again
<snap-l> brousch1: That sounds like a personal problem.
<brousch1> it is, but he caused it
<wolfger> brousch1: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XdP6Lp2ceqY/TTZTXnQvBbI/AAAAAAAAkic/F9degX2nYJU/s400/tumblr_lf88297Qr21qa0q13o1_500.jpg
<brousch1> freakish
<wolfger> It was being sold at teefury.com sometime last week
<snap-l> That's pretty disturbing on so many levels.
<wolfger> it appeals to me because I was always a fan of Battle Cat and also Azrael
<wolfger> mashing the two together is awesomeness
<wolfger> and killing smurfs is awesome
<wolfger> but Papa Skeletor Smurf is disturbing
<crohakon> What is a good, free, alternative to cPanel to manage shared hosting?
<snap-l> crohakon: Depends on what you want to do
<Blazeix> happy pi minute...
<Blazeix> hm, maybe pi minute should have been at 1:59.
<brousch1> rick_h_: is bookee federated?
<rick_h_> brousch1: nope, not sure how that would work
<rick_h_> right now it's personal instance only
<rick_h_> how would federation work? You could share with users on other bookie installs or something?
<brousch1> wait a minute, you're bookie?
<greg-g> I would think something alogn the lines of how identi.ca does
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> bookie
<brousch1> um, http://www.bookee.com/
<rick_h_> greg-g: right, but identica is sending messages to users on other system
<rick_h_> I don't really 'send' bookmarks, tags, etc
<brousch1> i was really impressed with how much crap you had on the web page
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> yeah, this would send the latest bookmark and put it in the feed of "my friends' bookmarks"
<rick_h_> something to look at, really not looked at 'social' bits yet
<greg-g> yeah, definitely a later date thing
<brousch1> bookee sounds like a single bookie instance
<greg-g> but implementing a OStatus feed/transport would be cool
<brousch1> but french
<_stink_> oui oui
 * rick_h_ looks up ostatus
<brousch1> i was really impressed that you had an iphone app
<greg-g> and disappointed
<rick_h_> cool, bookmarked
<rick_h_> lol, no, bookie is much less than that for sure
<rick_h_> brousch1: http://bmark.us/
<brousch1> a friend in another channel was asking about a multi-browser, multi-os bookmark sync. so i sent him to you
<rick_h_> not multi-browser yet. Only have a chrome plugin that works
<rick_h_> still need to write FF, and still want my curses ones
<rick_h_> but delicious api works so can write pretty easily
<snap-l> jcastro: Nice to see the unity integration
<snap-l> for Thunderbird
<jcastro> yeah!
<jcastro> menu's done too
<snap-l> ?
<jcastro> app menu
<snap-l> Got a screenshot?
<jcastro> "somewhere on omg"
<jcastro> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/2773759942/application-menu-support-update-for-thunderbird
<snap-l> Ah, beauty
 * snap-l is getting a mac after all. ;)
<rick_h_> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1201868713.png
<rick_h_> that just cost me $17 for 24 hours
<snap-l> At least the upload speeds are reasonable
<snap-l> download speeds are abysmal.
<rick_h_> having a hard time using google freaking reader
<rick_h_> and paid the $17 to skype with wife ina few
<snap-l> yesh
<rick_h_> http://planet-commandline.org/
<rick_h_> krondor: how's the mic?
<krondor> rick_h_: looks nice, I haven't really had a chance to try it to much
<krondor> First recording attempt sounded a fair amount nicer than the crap mic I was using before
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-15
<snap-l> I just sent a note to the program director of WDETHD2 to see if they'd be interested in Open Metalcast
<snap-l> We'll see what happens.
 * rick_h_ crosses fingers for you
<greg-g> ditto
<snap-l> Thanks. :)
<snap-l> btw: folks, if you'r subscribed to the lococast user on identica, please subscribe to the group instead
<snap-l> the user hasn't been updated in a dog's age.
<snap-l> Changed the lococast page to point to the group instead
<snap-l> tx, greg-g :)
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> I love it when someone says that they don't quite get identi.ca or microblogging
<snap-l> three things they've subscribed to: joindiaspora, doctorow, and one other person
<snap-l> of course you're not going to get it. :)
<rick_h_> http://www.arpitonline.com/blog/2011/03/14/thoughts-on-an-open-twitter-replacement-concentrate-on-whats-done-poorly/
<snap-l> #3 is partially done with Status.net
<snap-l> user discovery is still a blackart with federated sites
<snap-l> much like discovering e-mail
<snap-l> and routing all messages to your inbox: it's your funeral. :)
<wolfger> Morning.
<brousch> correct
<tjagoda> AFTERNOON
<brousch> incorrect
<wolfger> premature
<wolfger> or, possibly, geographically removed.
<wolfger> I mean, it *is* afternoon somewhere...
<greg-g> g'morn
<wolfger> depending on what the g stands for
<wolfger> Oh boy... RMS is at it again.
<binbrain> dude, I just going to say that, LOL, RMS ranting about cell phones
<brousch> omg did you see the latest rms rant?
<greg-g> link?
<brousch> it's all over the webz!
<brousch> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/031411-richard-stallman.html?hpg1=bn
<tjagoda> I never knew about task
<tjagoda> the console based to-do manager
<snap-l> tjagoda: I tried task. It's a little limited for my tastes
<tjagoda> http://taskwarrior.org/projects/show/taskwarrior/
<tjagoda> It appears to be under active dev
<binbrain> haha, the interview of RMS was done on cell phone, but he had to borrow 1
<binbrain> I hope he didn't stay on long enough for big brother to track him down
<snap-l> He makes some valid points, though
<snap-l> You can't really develop for your phone without getting a special developer phone
<snap-l> and if you want to hack on Google's tools, you can't.
<snap-l> Stallman does his computing on a Lemote Yeeloong laptop running gNewSense, a GNU/Linux distribution composed only of free software.
<snap-l> "There are some things I can't do. I'm using a rather slow computer because it's the only laptop with a free BIOS," Stallman says. gNewSense is the only totally free distribution that will run on the Lemote, which has a MIPS-like processor, he says. The Lemote had come with another GNU/Linux distribution that included non-free software, and Stallman replaced it with gNewSense.
<snap-l> Before agreeing to an interview with Network World, Stallman demanded that this article use his preferred terminology -- e.g. "free software" instead of "open source" and "GNU/Linux" instead of just "Linux." He also requested that the interview be recorded and that, if the recording were distributed online, that it be done so in a format that works with free software.
<snap-l> Gotta love RMS.
<snap-l> I love how he's uncompromising
<snap-l> but I wish his acolytes would choose their battles a little better.
<snap-l> The network world intervew was very good
<snap-l> I'm surprised. ;)
<brousch> i'm inspired. time to switch to bsd
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> wait, that's too free isn't it
<snap-l> now now
<wolfger> then go OpenBSD instead of FreeBSD :-)
<wolfger> RMS is a good idea gone horribly awry.
<wolfger> There's a difference between having principles (good!) and being uncompromising (bad!).
<snap-l> Well, RMS is a good way to calibrate those principles
<wolfger> If you refuse to compromise, so will everybody else, and you'll never get anywhere
<snap-l> Not necessarily
<snap-l> He's walking proof that it can be done
<snap-l> I don't get on a Zen monk's case for their choice to rake sand
<snap-l> but I know that I am not about to rake sand
<snap-l> And I can admire the Zen monk's conviction to rake said sand
<wolfger> The difference being, the zen monk doesn't go around saying everybody should rake sand.
<wolfger> He wants to change the world, but if the world doesn't go 100% his way... 99% is treated as bad as 0% by him.
<wolfger> So why even bother?
<brousch> someone has to keep us pointed in the right direction
<snap-l> brousch: ++
<brousch> it is good he exists and stays true to his cause
<wolfger> It would be better if he existed and wasn't so damned inflexible.
<brousch> even though i make fun of him
<brousch> there are plenty of other people that are inflexible
<wolfger> Seriously, I believe he does the cause more harm than good every time he speaks
<brousch> a few stalwarts are good
<snap-l> wolfger: People glom on to the headline
<brousch> wait, i mean plenty of other people who are flexible
<snap-l> Slashdot reports that Stalman thinks cellphones are the tools of Stalin
<wolfger> Yeah, that's where I picked it up from
<brousch> it might be good if he were less dramatic
<snap-l> And that makes the whole thing sound ridiculous
<brousch> but then no one would pay attention
<snap-l> but if you read what he said, it's more sane and carefully thought out
<brousch> and if he'd shower and groom himself
<wolfger> Oh, sure, a lot (if not all) of what he says is true.
<snap-l> See, Stallman and Palin are cut from the same cloth
<snap-l> except Stallman makes sense, and is less easy on the eyes
<snap-l> Palin is just batshit insane
<wolfger> LOL
<snap-l> and Stallman frames his interviews according to what he wants to get across
<snap-l> I agree, though, that the 1970s activism stunts that the FSF proposes are very tone-deaf and silly
<brousch> i always feel guilty after reading a stallman piece
<snap-l> tying up the genius bar to have a debate on free software is counterproductive
<snap-l> but I'd have the same problem with PETA doing the chicken dance in front of a KFC that I would have of people in radiation suits doing the DRM dance in front of the Apple store.
<wolfger> I have more problems with PETA than FSF.
<snap-l> bah, I forgot to type "people from PETA in chicken suits doing the chicken dance..."
<wolfger> I at least think FSF is aruging a sound position. :-p
<snap-l> wolfger: Totally agree.
<wolfger>  But they are about the same level of media-whoring laughing-stock.
<wolfger> More about making waves than making a difference.
<binbrain> remember that crap FSF pulled a few years ago, when they mailed "proprietary software is for the devil" pamphlets to all the fortune 500 companies, WTF
<binbrain> thinking about it makes me laugh, what did they think they would really accomplish
<snap-l> binbrain: I have a real problem with fundamentalism, both in the church, and in the FSF
<wolfger> Yeah, that probably set Free Software adoption back about 20 years...
<snap-l> Framing the conversation in terms of good vs evil is counterproductive
<wolfger> "Oh, I'm sorry... Did you want us to take you seriously?"
<greg-g> huh, taskwarrior has some nice mutt integration thanks to nixternal http://taskwarrior.org/wiki/taskwarrior/AddOns
<jrwren> FSF is a church.
<snap-l> And microsoft is a megachurch. :)
<snap-l> With guns, and hookers
<snap-l> and blackjack
<wolfger> FSF is Westboro...
<greg-g> zow
<wolfger> (or does that invoke some variant of Godwin?)
<greg-g> yes
<greg-g> also, I disagree
<wolfger> I know, a bit extreme...
<greg-g> Westboro is more the anti-mono folks
<wolfger> they aren't nearly as bad as Westboro
<greg-g> FSF is probably just closer to a Amish church
<greg-g> doing without for ethical reasons
<wolfger> Hardly anybody is as bad as Westboro
 * greg-g nods
<wolfger> also, sign me up for the guns, hookers, and blackjack
<wolfger> :-)
<wolfger> greg-g: Isn't FSF also the anti-mono folks?
<wolfger> There's definitely some overlap there.
<greg-g> point
<greg-g> but I think the most vocal/craziest about it are the boycottnovell people
<wolfger> FSF is pro-Mono but anti-writing-anything-in-C#
<wolfger> Kinda like being pro-Colt-Revolver, but anti-bullet.
<snap-l> FSF is anti patents, and mono could be a patent trap
<snap-l> as could Java
<snap-l> as could any language when you get right down to it
<jrwren> the top of planet-commandline.org is cool right now, but I prefer du -kx | sort -nr | head :)
<jrwren> taliban is worse than westboro
<jrwren> mono could be a patent trap??? wtf have you been reading?!?
<jrwren> Linux is more a patent trap than mono. See the tomtom case.
<snap-l> jrwren: That seems to be the biggest complaint that I've read about mono
<snap-l> that and Microsoft can't be trusted
<snap-l> which is stupid on both counts
<snap-l> Both complaints can be leveled at Oracle and Java
<jrwren> as long as you don't beleive it. its lies.
<wolfger> jrwren: Point taken. I was not thinking globally.
<snap-l> Well, I hope they don't make me a lier
<wolfger> and as for patent trap... FSF is convinced C# is a patent trap, or could be. They treat it like a time bomb.
<snap-l> Again, so is Java
<snap-l> yet everyone loves Java, but hates C#
<snap-l> Well, maybe not love
<wolfger> yes, but they see C# as worse for some reason I don't care to understand.
<snap-l> I don' tthink anyone Loves Java
<wolfger> managers love Java
<snap-l> More like tolerates
<snap-l> wolfger: yeah, because Java is the current widget-cranker's language.
<snap-l> You can get 100 widget crankers to write Java
<snap-l> There's folk that can write awesome Java, and there's folks that write the shit that I've mostly seen
<wolfger> Yes. And management would rather have disposable programmers than worry about having to retain talented programmers
<snap-l> I think rick_h_'s rant about the day coders sums up the problems of Java very well
<wolfger> at least, management here...
<snap-l> Java seems like the language that you leave in the office
<rick_h_> irc lighting up, what's up?
<rick_h_> java developers? uh oh
<snap-l> Well, it started off as FSF stuff
<rick_h_> wheeee
<rick_h_> good Tues
<snap-l> RMS discussed cell phones
<snap-l> Scrollback will make more sense. :)
<rick_h_> tl;dr :P
<snap-l> I just invoked the name of rick_h_ to make a pount about day coders and Java.
<wolfger> Yeah. He said, "Don't be a day-coder like rick_h_"
<wolfger> :-D
<wolfger> Or something to that effect. I may have misunderstood.
<rick_h_> yea, good rule of thumb
<snap-l> wolfger: Come here, and let me hug your neck while I shake it vigerously.
<rick_h_> do opposite of what rick_h_ does
<wolfger> I'm so glad it's lunchtime. Otherwise my cow-orkers would be giving me really strange looks right now.
<wolfger> As I literally laugh out loud every couple seconds when I re-read the "hug your neck" comment.
<snap-l> ;)
<wolfger> I'm surprised tjagoda isn't weighing in with his "trolololo"
<jrwren> C# can't be a patent trap any more than perl, python or ruby can be.
<jrwren> the fundamentals of a programming langauge are not patentable.
<jrwren> Grammars have been well known and understood for 60+ yrs.
<jrwren> I've never heard boycott novell or fsf say that C# is a patent threat.
<jrwren> ... .net libraries and mono on the other hand... they have made idiotic claims about
<tjagoda> trololololololllllll
<brousch> when i've seen such claims they are usually regarding the windows forms or whatever the new windows gui crap is called
<brousch> but then mono seems to stay away from those
<snap-l> jrwren: I plead ignorance into what is the alleged patent traps in mono / .net
<snap-l> mostly because I'm not as familiar with them as you.
<snap-l> but I will agree that the claims are idiotic
<wolfger> jrwren: http://www.fsf.org/news/2009-07-mscp-mono
<wolfger> Buzz is oddly quiet today.
<wolfger> Or possibly the "unread" count simply wasn't changing. There were several new items there when I clicked on it.
<smoser> jcastro, did you get your thinkpad?
<jrwren> brousch: mono doesn't stay away from windows forms, but if any of it were a patent issue, then Wine would be in HUGE trouble too, but we don't hear about FSF hating on Wine do we?
<jrwren> hypocrits
<jrwren> brousch: if you study that link you sent it doesn't add up.
<jcastro> smoser: I did! Just waiting on new SSDs to come out!
<jrwren> its also out of date, the community promise has been extended to the BCL, so specifically the serialization, xml and regex libs that the FSF cites.
<jrwren> ugh, here I am defending a technology because i hate patents.
<jrwren> NEVER let patents stop you from using the best tech.
<jcastro> JUST ROLL WITH IT
<snap-l> jrwren: I hate anything that stands in the way of progress
<snap-l> and patents are standing in our way.
<wolfger> snap-l++
<wolfger> when you need a legal team in order to design software, something is wrong.
<snap-l> http://mattendahl.blogspot.com/2011/03/all-about-emergency-managers-analysis.html
<jrwren> right, but don't let that stop you from using the best technology.
<jrwren> same thing with (c)
 * wolfger patents the concept of using the best technology for the job.
<jrwren> lol
<wolfger> of course, that doesn't leave me very many companies to sue.
<jrwren> i take it back
<jrwren> its a sad world we live in.
<wolfger> What really makes it sad is that people who don't have a clue are given the task of handing out software patents and/or ruling on the lawsuits regarding same.
<wolfger> then some people actually believe patents protect inventors and encourage innovation
<tjagoda> I would like to patent Wolfger's opinion
<tjagoda> So that he must pay me royalty every time he speaks
<wolfger> Noooooooo
<tjagoda> I invented Wolfger's opinion
<wolfger> actually, my opinion is not patentable. You'd have to patent a process by which you have an opinion.
<wolfger> Then you could collect from anybody who has one. :-p
 * brousch signs up for a psychology degree so he can rule the world
<wolfger> I would in return claim that I have no opinions, only facts. :-D
<brousch> i will patent usage of the part of your brain that is used for forming an opinion
<rick_h_> greg-g: some prettying in bookie: http://rick.bmark.us//recent
<rick_h_> just some basics, but should apply cleanly if you pull/restart
<_stink_> rick_h_: oo
<rick_h_> going to start some import ui and after that try to start some basic api auth I think
<_stink_> awesome.  i've got an instance at bookie.adamlincoln.org
<_stink_> IP restricted, though
<rick_h_> yea, good call
<rick_h_> I've started some checks, if you flip the "edit" in the config off it won't display links for delete/etc
<rick_h_> and once I get the auth/api key stuff going you'll set an API key and the chrome plugin will be coded to use that as a simple form of auth
<Blazeix> nice, I like the css calendar icon.
<rick_h_> so not changes via http, have to use API with key to make changes
<rick_h_> yea, only looked at the stuff in chrome since I'm using that and my extension is chrome only
<rick_h_> but it's a start
<_stink_> rick_h_: i plan to give FF a go with it.
<rick_h_> awesome!
<_stink_> unless greg-g has already carved that out.
<_stink_> rick_h_: that and a curses client :)
<rick_h_> I think you can copy/paste a lot of code since it's basic JS
<Blazeix> fyi, it looks really good in IE9 and FF
<_stink_> rick_h_: but you may get to that first
<rick_h_> cool, good to know
<Blazeix> missing the red part of the calendar and some rounded corners, but nothing huge
<rick_h_> I don't know, right now I have a lot of work on the server side and figure I should stick with that as long as possible
<rick_h_> but we'll see, it's a long term thing for sure
<_stink_> yep
<_stink_> i am the king of 'long-term project' :)
<_stink_> just commited to pydidit on Sunday - first commit since April 2010 :P
<_stink_> and still like 7 branches waiting to get wrapped up
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> we should start a club
<_stink_> you did - it's CHC
<rick_h_> yea, but that's in person, and those of us that have such lazy/long term projects can't bother meeting
<_stink_> oh yeah. :_)
<greg-g> rick_h_: neat-o!
<greg-g> _stink_: I haven't started on that Fx plugin yet :(
<_stink_> greg-g: well, neither have I, so we both :(
<greg-g> :( in groups is more fun that :( alone
<_stink_> oh for sure
<_stink_> everybody :( !
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Is it just me, or is ekiga garbage?
<greg-g> haven't used it
<snap-l> Well, it can't register my account
<_stink_> snap-l: i had mixed success, oh, 1.5 years ago
<snap-l> so is essentially useless.
<greg-g> rick_h_: also, why aren't you in #bookie? :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: doh, had irrsi reset
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> stupid server
<rick_h_> there, added to server
<gamerchick02> listening to more lococast.
<gamerchick02> i'd like to go to PenguiCon.
 * brousch shivers uncomfortably.
<gamerchick02> you cold, brousch?
<brousch> scared
<gamerchick02> bout what?
<gamerchick02> Penguicon?
<waldo323> there should be some pretty cool stuff at penguicon this year
<gamerchick02> if i have the money and it's not too close to Supreme, i might go
<waldo323> when is Supreme
<_stink_> it's when the pizza comes with pepperoni, sausage, mushrooms, and green peppers
<greg-g> mmmmm, pizza
<_stink_> yes
<_stink_> damnit
<_stink_> now i want some
<waldo323> i had pizza for pi day
<waldo323> it was a good way to celebrate
<gamerchick02> second week of june
<snap-l> Penguicon is the end of April
<gamerchick02> hrm
<snap-l> last weekend of April even
<gamerchick02> might be able to do it. not sure though. gotta look at my calendar
<waldo323> april 29 - may 1, if memory serves
<gamerchick02> thanks
<rick_h_> what's "supreme"?
<rick_h_> http://www.hilltopyodeler.com/blog/?p=435 pure awesome
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ Supreme Session for Daughters of the Nile
<gamerchick02> it's in Tampa this year
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/av/worst-video-year
<snap-l> Wow, where to begin
<gamerchick02> lol, worst video of the year.
<gamerchick02> has anyone used freemind?  what do you think?
<snap-l> I have... it's OK, not great
<snap-l> suffers from being Java
<gamerchick02> ok
<gamerchick02> what about vym or semantik?
<snap-l> Freemind was the best one that I used, I'm afraid
<snap-l> but that was a while ago
<gamerchick02> ok. i'm thinking of a different way to organize my NaNo novel this year.
<gamerchick02> i seem to get stuck, so maybe a different tool will help me?
<gamerchick02> i dunno
<snap-l> Well, what are you looking to accomplish?
<snap-l> Scriviner has a Linux version, btw
<gamerchick02> trying to organize my story notes in an easy way to move them around.
<gamerchick02> and yeah, i know an outline is easy, but i'd like to try something different
<snap-l> http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php
<snap-l> http://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9150&sid=9b38eb10eee7435b47ab3e5ca8022c85
<gamerchick02> danke.
<snap-l> http://literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9154&start=210
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-16
<wolfger> 43 more days...
<wolfger> ...until everybody starts asking "is it out yet?" every 5-10 minutes.
<tjagoda> ?
<tjagoda> oh
<tjagoda> derp
<wolfger> 43 more days of me asking "does my wifi work yet?" :-p
<wolfger> because after it launches, I know they'll never fix it.
<brousch> it's a security feature
<tjagoda> I am not so sure about this 6-month release cycle anymore
<tjagoda> What do we get from it besides a lot of versions with minimal change and continually decreasing quality? =P
<brousch> minimal change? Unity is coming
<tjagoda> Speaking over the last 3-4 releases though, I would say that the change between where we are right now and where I was at 7.04 is not really that large of a difference
<tjagoda> years, not releases*
<tjagoda> 7.04 was actually the most flawlessly working Ubuntu I ever experienced
<tjagoda> Quality all went downhill from that Feisty Fawn. =p
<brousch> 8.04 is my favorite
<wolfger> tjagoda++
<tjagoda> I hope I dont hate Unity
<tjagoda> It would suck to have to jump the ubuntu ship
<brousch> Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Lubuntu
<tjagoda> Even Wolfger wont use Kubuntu
<tjagoda> I'm not going there! =p
<brousch> plenty of stepchildren to hop onto so you can stay with the *buntu family
<tjagoda> Wonder if there's a fluxbunt?
<tjagoda> fluxbuntu*
 * tjagoda googles
<brousch> i think so
<wolfger> Mmm...fluxbuntu...
<brousch> http://fluxbuntu.org/
<tjagoda> died at 9.04
<brousch> i think the little window manager people have hopped over to lubuntu
<tjagoda> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Fluxbox
<wolfger> 9.04 was Jaunty, right? That was a prettty good release
<tjagoda> 9.04 was indeed jaunty
<wolfger> I think the quality scale goes: Feisty, Jaunty, everything else, Intrepid.
<wolfger> If there's anyting worse than Intrepid, I never used it
<wolfger> so xubuntu 9.04 might be a good choice
<tjagoda> True
<wolfger> er... fluxbuntu, I mean
<tjagoda> I ask myself, what application updates since then do I actually like?
<tjagoda> I am not able to produce an answer apart from "when GNOME-DO works"
<wolfger> improvements to Gwibber
<tjagoda> I do not use it
<wolfger> well, then.... nothing :-)
<tjagoda> All my tweeting is done from Seesmic on my blackberry
<tjagoda> also
<tjagoda> fuck you twitter
<tjagoda> pry my 3rd party clients out of my cold dead hands
<tjagoda> your blackberry app sucks
<wolfger> indeed
<wolfger> But Twitter has sucked ever since they changed default behavior to not show your friends' @-replies to people other than you.
<wolfger> If I want a private conversation, I'll use DM's
<tjagoda> Truth
<tjagoda> Perhaps I should look at identi.ca
<wolfger> I can't remember the last time tjagoda and I agreed on so much. Judgement Day must be near
<tjagoda> Truth, with wolfger and I agreeing, and a world full of natural disasters and revolutions, perhaps everything IS going to end in 2012 =P
<wolfger> .oO(so this is what happens when I stop trolling...)
<tjagoda> Also
<tjagoda> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003A9GBC4?ie=UTF8&tag=elemmedios-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B003A9GBC4
<tjagoda> That would be cool of HTPC
<tjagoda> touchpad + qwerty keyboard
<tjagoda> about the size of a blackberry
<tjagoda> USB wireless
<tjagoda> I think I may have Stockholm syndrome with respect to my blackberry
<tjagoda> despite it being obviously behind the other smartphones in terms of features
<tjagoda> I would still buy another one =(
<wolfger> Have you tried another phone?
<wolfger> I love my BlackBerry until I tried something else.
<wolfger> Never looked back
<wolfger> One thing I do miss about the old BB is the ease of single-handed use. Very difficult to use a touch screen with just one hand
<wolfger> I was good at using that full qwerty keyboard with my thumb
<tjagoda> I say there is no better hardware for pure messaging
<wolfger> tjagoda: no better hardware, but Swype software makes up for a lot. I like a virtual keyboard with Swype over a BB keyboard
<tjagoda> I also like not giving my entire life to google
<tjagoda> If they shut off my account one day my entire virtual presence would be so hosed
<brousch> who cares? if google shuts off it means the world is ending
<brousch> you'll have bigger problems to deal with at that point
<wolfger> brousch++
<tjagoda> Not total google meltdown
<tjagoda> like TOS switchoffs or whatever their EULA I didn't read allows them to do =P
<brousch> well you're already hosed there too. upon receipt of your first email in gmail you pledged to enslave yourself to the Google Hivemind Supercomputer come 2023
<tjagoda> So..
<tjagoda> The matrix?
<brousch> but run by Google employees instead of evil machines
<tjagoda> Is there a difference?
<wolfger> sweet
<wolfger> remind me to take the red pill
<brousch> and they don't give a shit about your power output, just using your brain to calculate targeted ads to the superrich
<snap-l> I absolutely hated the Blackberry
<snap-l> though I have to say the keyboard was a mixed bag
<snap-l> good for touch typing, but a pain for finding symbols and crap
<snap-l> alt for som, sym for others, and num did something that I can't remember what. :)
<wolfger> there goes snap-l, with his incorrect opinions again. :-)
<snap-l> wolfger: I think the Blackberry would be an excellent device to skip across a lake.
<wolfger> You're probably right.
<wolfger> At least, as long as the EPA doesn't find out
<tjagoda> There is no more num button
<wolfger> I'm sure you'd get fines and/or jail time
<snap-l> On mine there was, but it didn't do anything useful
<snap-l> had to use Alt to get numbers
<snap-l> which was pretty stupid
<tjagoda> indeed
<tjagoda> Well
<tjagoda> not stupid in that it auto gets numbers when you're in phone mode
<snap-l> tjagoda: Oh please, do argue this one. ;)
<tjagoda> If you hit call and then just type they are automatically numbers
<tjagoda> Alt gets you the alt character
<tjagoda> sym gets you anything not on the keybaord
<snap-l> Right, and it transformed from a decently sized qwerty keyboard into the worlds smallest numberpad
<tjagoda> seems simple to me =P
<snap-l> tjagoda: I stand by my assertion that the Blackberry is the Lotus Notes of cellphones
<tjagoda> oh wow
<tjagoda> Symbian is
<tjagoda> lol
<tjagoda> Blackberry is good for business people still
<snap-l> Symbian is the HP Calculator of Cellphones.
<tjagoda> and it's got the reputation/status going for it
<snap-l> and Lotus Notes is still good for business.
<tjagoda> OS6 catches them up to the competition noticeably as well which is nice
<snap-l> Hey, you can bend Lotus Notes into just about anything
<snap-l> except the interface is shit no matter how you polish it.
<tjagoda> Meh
<tjagoda> I disagree with your incorrect opinion =P
<snap-l> Yeah, I used OS4, which was pretty clunky
<snap-l> HAven't played with any of the later phones
<snap-l> but hey, Lotus Notes 8 was pretty spiffy looking too. ;)
<snap-l> http://www-01.ibm.com/software/lotus/products/notes/
<tjagoda> Now you're just trolling =P
<snap-l> ha ha, only serious.
<tjagoda> I don't think iPhone/Android have anything to replace BBerry enterprise server though, do they?
<snap-l> http://www-01.ibm.com/software/lotus/products/notes/whatsnewinnotes.html
<snap-l> tjagoda: iPhone has exchange support, but that's about it
<tjagoda> Can't do any of the security policy stuff though
<snap-l> Yeah, it's not quite the same
<tjagoda> I'd say they're definitely winning in the "manage huge quantities of phones with minimal pain" arena
<snap-l> Though, to be fair, $lastjob didn't make me use the BB for email
<snap-l> and when my password changed, I didn't pursue getting it synced up with the server
<snap-l> tjagoda: Agreed, just like Lotus Notes. :)
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/hxZ/ <- Dude, this guy is totally styling.
<snap-l> He's saying "Yeah, man, Lotus Notes is cool too"
<snap-l> "All the chicks dig my Domino Server"
<binbrain> snap-l that guys WAY to hip for corporate enterprise, very bad ass
<tjagoda> I like blackberry hardware, anyway
<tjagoda> the form factor of the phone fits in the hand nicely
<tjagoda> very easy to 1-hand use
<snap-l> binbrain: It's the yellow glasses and the soul patch that say "I'm the COOL guy in IT"
<tjagoda> I might buy a playbook when they come out
<snap-l> "The one that'll be taking Suzie from Accounting home once she gets a load of my Domino Server"
<tjagoda> just to have more to argue with snap-l about
<tjagoda> =p
<tjagoda> Everybody hates IBM these days, don't they.
<tjagoda> DB2 gets no love
<tjagoda> Lotus gets no love
<snap-l> tjagoda: DB2 gets the love it deserves
<tjagoda> Hardware gets some love
<snap-l> UDB is a festring piece of crap
<tjagoda> God damn crabby old men ;)
<snap-l> Have you USED UDB?
 * greg-g waves
<snap-l> 1982 called and wanted it's database back
<jrwren> wtf is UDB?
<snap-l> Unix version of DB2
<snap-l> They managed to make it worse than real DB2 (which I actually liked with my limited dealings with it)
<snap-l> for some reason we were stuck with a version that gave us 13 character table names
<snap-l> and column names
<brousch> 13 characters is enough for anyone
<snap-l> and Chrysler had this really stupid hungarian-style notation for the column that took up a good chunk of that
<snap-l> so instead of having an integer field for the number of times accessed called "num_of_times_accessed" (or something equivalent), you'd get i_numtimesacc
<tjagoda> ohhhhhhh
<snap-l> or something even worse than that
<tjagoda> Blackberry playbook may be out on april 10
 * tjagoda squees
<snap-l> tjagoda: better camp out now
<snap-l> be the first in line
<brousch> ew
<tjagoda> More portable than iPad
<brousch> i'm more interested in the webos tablet
<tjagoda> faster
<tjagoda> greater battery life
<tjagoda> And distinctly more Canadian. =P
<brousch> the android compatibility might save t
<snap-l> abler to leap taller buildings with a singler bound
<rick_h_> morning, phew last full day of hacking
<snap-l> rick_h_: When are you coming back from candyland?
<rick_h_> tomorrow afternoon
<snap-l> Ahh, cool
<rick_h_> today is interview day, one guy went home, but working on getting the three today
<snap-l> (yay)
<snap-l> I know what I'll be doing tomorrow night. ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://twitter.com/#!/mpirnat/status/47874644446953473
<rick_h_> and http://twitter.com/#!/mpirnat/status/47871256233639936
<snap-l> rick_h_: HAH! I KNEW IT!
<jrwren> snap-l: the naming conventions you mention is standard on every enterprise DB I've ever seen.
<snap-l> jrwren: ye gads, they suck
<jrwren> its mostly becuase all this stuff came out of the 70s and 80s and systems were very memory constrained
<snap-l> Right, and if we were using a database from the 1980s, I'd completely understand. :)
<snap-l> But 1980-2008 had some remarkable advances in memory technology. ;)
<jrwren> but many enterprise systems did not.
<jrwren> they grew, but they didn't migrate or fully rewrite
<jrwren> many ERP systems still have cobol components
<snap-l> coming to find out that Chrysler was not the innovator of many of the backward concepts that I've seen. ;)
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, but this was a new system, running on newer hardware.
<jrwren> new to them? newly purchased? or newly developed?
<snap-l> new development
<jrwren> well then they should fail.
<snap-l> as in we were making the column names in conjunction with the DBA
<jrwren> there is no excuse for that kind of development these days.
<snap-l> I agree.
<jrwren> oh, that was the first mistake, working with a DBA ;)
<snap-l> jrwren: Was part of the process
<snap-l> which was another bucket of fail
<jrwren> that is another mistake, making that the process
<jrwren> snap-l: who developed this?
<snap-l> jrwren: It was like they created an assembly line for releasing code
<snap-l> internal development, along with outsourcing
<wolfger> snap-l: does Chrysler innovate any ideas, good or bad? I mean, other than the minivan...
<jrwren> the "software factories" approach?
<jrwren> snap-l: internal to whom?
<snap-l> Not sure how to best explain this
<snap-l> internal to chrysler.
<jrwren> oh, it is chrysler? lolz.
<snap-l> jrwren: I should tell you what the process was as I understood it next time we meet up. It was absolute hell
<snap-l> It was designed more to keep code out than let folks fix things.
<wolfger> well, code can be dangerous
<wolfger> so of course we want to keep it out, ne?
<snap-l> Well, and it was all because someone managed to bust DealerConnect to the point that Dieter Zetsche had to get involved.
<snap-l> So, I kinda understand, but still, FieldConnect was nowhere near the Dealerships, yet it was treated with the same kid gloves.
<snap-l> It was a fucked up process, regardless
<snap-l> Contained all of the worst bits of waterfall development with hour-long meetings where everyone played the parts of amateur designer and English teacher
<snap-l> I swear we had a 20 minute discussion over a fucking semicolon once.
<wolfger> LOL
<wolfger> Semi-colons are important; people should use them correctly.
<brousch> what was the semicolon fucking?
<snap-l> brousch: Apparently all that was good and holy with the world for the person who pressed the issue.
<waldo323> great first line to see when entering a channel, heh
<wolfger> Anybody going to Indy Linux Fest?
<wolfger> http://www.indianalinux.org/cms/
<tjagoda> nope
<brousch> a couple of friends from the west side, but not me
<snap-l> I'm not planning on it right now
<snap-l> http://i.imgur.com/H64HK.jpg
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw
<wolfger> Hey, does this page look like utter crap to anybody else? http://www.indianalinux.org/cms/schedule2011
<snap-l> It looks like an 8-bit inspired artwork of the backslash
<snap-l> But otherwise looks OK over here.
<snap-l> Looks like any other crappy drupal site.
<brousch> looks messy
<wolfger> snap-l: I'm seeing a QR-code and the associated text right over the top of two of the schedule tables
<wolfger> obliterating a chunk of schedule
<brousch> that looks fine on mine
<brousch> get a real browser
<snap-l> Same here, though I'm using Chrome
<snap-l> same here as in it looks OK
<brousch> they don't care how it looks in ie
<wolfger> brousch: I don't care how it looks in IE either
<wolfger> FF 3.6.13 here
<wolfger> Maybe ABP was interfering?
<wolfger> Nope, that's not it
<wolfger> There we go... Maximized the window.
<wolfger> QR code box appears to be anchored to the right side of the browser window
<wolfger> And the sucky thing is, I keep my browser at roughly full-size for a non-widescreen monitor
<wolfger> they've designed a webpage for widescreen only.
<snap-l> Just subscribed to the pycon miro feed. Ye gads, that's a lot of video.
<snap-l> And this is why I love me some miro
<wolfger> gonna take the free-licensed content and slap together a "best of Pycon" LoCoCast?
<snap-l> wolfger: You've not been listening to lococast lately, have you? :)
<wolfger> Not since Rick's "Day 1" episode
<wolfger> which I suspect I didn't even hear all of
<snap-l> There's two more on there
<greg-g> what, the, hell, that is the stupidest way to make that schedule
<tjagoda> Awwh
<tjagoda> No more Ontario Linux Fest
<tjagoda> =(
<jrwren> why not?
<tjagoda> Seems the organizer doesn't want to do it
<tjagoda> http://onlinux.ca/node/11
<jrwren> well, that is a good reason.
<jrwren> someone else should step up... or let it die.
 * wolfger looks at tjgoda, who professes to be Canadian these days...
<wolfger> I know you know how to run a con, sir.
<snap-l> Yeah, that happened last year
<snap-l> Not sure if that still means that this year is still off
<tjagoda> If I actually lived in ontario  I would do so
<tjagoda> I, however, do not
<brousch> so ontario shuts down and indianapolis starts up
<wolfger> That's right. Support it, bitches. Don't let another con go down the tubes. :-)
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://uploads.mitechie.com/lococast_pycon.png seems like pycon's been good to us :)
<jcastro> nice!
<rick_h_> jcastro: never ran into evan, tried to get amber to intro us so I could deliver your message
<rick_h_> not sure if he's still down here
<rick_h_> hopefully getting an interview with Michael Food a bit later so I'll ask him
<jcastro> I've chatted with him since then
<jcastro> thanks though
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<wolfger> rick_h_: Looking for an appointment with food?
<rick_h_> sorry, foord
<rick_h_> I'm approaching dead here, typing and 'making sense' will suffer :)
<snap-l> Very cool!
<rick_h_> yea, still not over 200 feed subscribers, but getting close
<rick_h_> but a lot of downloads/traffic recently to the feed
<wolfger> I have no idea if I'm a subscriber or not.
<wolfger> Every time I open up Google Listen, I have to click on the Subscribe button again, and then open the menu and click Refresh to get new episodes.
<rick_h_> ugh
<wolfger> Listen is a cool concept, but I don't think it actually works very well.
<rick_h_> someone else was having feed problems
<rick_h_> try to delete /readd if you get some time
<jrwren> Michael Foord is a MSFT luver. be sure to wash your hands. :p
<rick_h_> wonder if it had a bump
<rick_h_> jrwren: heh, as he uses his mac
<rick_h_> but yea, big ironpython guy
<rick_h_> will be interesting to chat
<rick_h_> gah, upload faster, been saying 1hr left for last 50min
<binbrain> I feel like there has to be a single cmd for this but can't find, want to gen new uuid and have fstab automatically updated to reflect, anybody?
<snap-l> no idea
<jrwren> uuidgen
<jrwren> but doesn't the FS already have a  uuid?
<jrwren> you can use uuidgen+tune2fs+sed to fix up your fstab with a new uuidgen, but I don't know of a built in
<jrwren> oh, and maybe findfs so you know it worked correctly
<binbrain> jrwren: that's the combo I was guessing I was going to have to, just seemed like an obvious thing, if I tune2fs with a new uuid, I want to have fstab updated
<jrwren> i've done it manually a few times.
<jrwren> only every time I add a disk
<jrwren> and since I'm not a sysadmin, that has been about 5 times ;)
<snap-l> squeekyhoho: @CnkoymAinjad277: OMG, I just told a spammer to go fuck a barbecue while dousing themselves with gasoline. What a coincidence! |01:26 PM Mar 16, 2011
<snap-l> Nice... apparently there's a network of them that will spout shit if you post to them
<Blazeix> I'm just catching up on the recent lococasts. One of my friends has been trying to run qtile for about year on ubuntu - he's never successfully set it up :(
<brousch> it will take me 2 months to catch up on all the new lococasts
<snap-l> Man, so much great content on the web.
<snap-l> Going to need another hard drive soon for all of the pycon videos, and a game development youtube channel I found
<binbrain> jwren: have a bootable hd that will be dd'd to mass produce other hds, need to be able to dd and then tell the new hd it needs to use a diff uuid, thanks for the help, uuidgen+tune2fs+sed is my answer
<jrwren> why the different uuid?
<jrwren> the disks will never be in the same server, so it doesn't matter.
<rick_h_> jcastro: got a hold of Evan, cool guy
<rick_h_> had a great discussion on Unity, he says I should get a hold of Neil Patel for an interview on unity/issues, sound right?
<rick_h_> and poor guy is a penguins fan who's not heard any recent news of them or Crosby's status
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> but neil is super busy
<jcastro> you might not get any unity folks for an interview, maybe DBO would be the best bet
<jcastro> call in a favor from the old days
<rick_h_> cool, I'll check in with you when I get back
<rick_h_> well.
<rick_h_> oops
<rick_h_> typo
<rick_h_> twitter down/giving strange error for anyone else?
<_stink_> working here
<rick_h_> http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/14/something-is-technically-wrong-with-twitter-com/
<rick_h_> looks like not just me then
<_stink_> 2010?
<_stink_> :D
<rick_h_> oh, whoops
<rick_h_> http://status.twitter.com/post/3902683774/experiencing-elevated-error-rates
<rick_h_> well that too
<rick_h_> funny, I told google to only pull results from the last 24 hrs
<rick_h_> and that still came up, wtf
<binbrain> jrwren: good point but there are times during the validation of the process that they will have same disks hooked up at the same time
<rick_h_> http://blip.tv/file/4884733 8:30 in there _stink_ Blazeix widox_
 * snap-l checks to see if there isn't some secret tiling foo in there.
<_stink_> video choppy for anyone else?
<binbrain> my new MacBook Pro just came in the mail, can't wait to get Linux on this bad boy
<snap-l> I can't seek in the video at all
<brousch> why would you pay big bucks for a MBP only to put linux on it?
<snap-l> dual boot?
<brousch> VM
<_stink_> rick_h_: haha, this is great
<brousch> putting linux on apple hardware always has some missing/crappy drivers
<_stink_> OH MAN i can hear rick_h_ laughing!
<rick_h_> :)
<gamerchick02> personally, if i had a MBP, i'd dual boot.
<gamerchick02> i do now with windows 7 (don't hate me, please)
<snap-l> Ah, I already downloaded this
<snap-l> gamerchick02: I'd use a VM with a Macbook
<gamerchick02> and the new MBP 13" looks beautiful
<gamerchick02> why, snap-l? works better?
 * gamerchick02 is curious, not confrontational.
<rick_h_> dual boot you tend to live in one other other
<rick_h_> I dual boot Win7 as well, but only go in to record
<rick_h_> so I'm not getting better/learning any new features
<snap-l> gamerchick02: becuase Linux can handle VMs better. ;)
<rick_h_> whereas with a VM, especially in transparent mode, I might run apps/tools from both OS's at the same time
<gamerchick02> ah
<brousch> yes
<brousch> i can run osx, winxp, and linux at the same time
<snap-l> Help qtile grow exponentially, we only need two of you. :)
<gamerchick02> nice.
<snap-l> If I could get away with it, I'd put Windows in a VM on all of the machines that need it
<snap-l> so then I could just pop into Windows when needed, and then do real work when it's not needed.
<gamerchick02> brilliant, snap-l.
<snap-l> and when my parents fuck up their Windows partition even more, I could just reload Windows from the last known good snapshot
<gamerchick02> that's... slick. :)
<snap-l> Man, rick_h_ projects. :)
<rick_h_> ??
<snap-l> pro-jects into all of the microphones
<rick_h_> voice on those not good?
<snap-l> No, they're great
<rick_h_> damn, I gave them the good mic today
<snap-l> but you're too big for one mic. ;)
<rick_h_> and kept the cheap one for me
<rick_h_> hoping it would help
<snap-l> It's not bad, but there's bleed through
<snap-l> on the pyramid one at least
<rick_h_> damn, which one is this?
<rick_h_> ugh, /me goes back to mic shopping
<snap-l> And that's partially because Chris talks like a southerner.
<rick_h_> yea, he's a kind of quiet guy
<snap-l> and rick_h_ talks like a NORTHERNER
<rick_h_> woo!
<rick_h_> fight that southern heritage!
<gamerchick02> uhm, i talk like a Northerner. i think. i'm not from the "south"
<gamerchick02> middle, really
<snap-l> I'm using Autoduck an awful lot. ;)
<rick_h_> damn
<rick_h_> was really hoping wouldn't be needed
<rick_h_> it sounds awful as the tracks jump in/out
<snap-l> no worries
 * rick_h_ hangs head in shame
<snap-l> It's not as bad as you might think
<snap-l> I lower the volume a bit.
<jcastro> snap-l: what was the name of that rush documentary?
<snap-l> Beyond the Lighted Stage
<snap-l> jcastro: ^
<rick_h_> https://github.com/bitprophet/fabric/compare/b2cd73cf77...0950b50bb6  woot
<binbrain> awesome rick_h_ whatcha do for fabric?
<rick_h_> sprinted with them
<rick_h_> created 6 branches of tickets stuff for it
<rick_h_> so looks like a couple got merged in so far
<rick_h_> couple were just creating branches from people's patches, couple were bug fixes I submitted, and one was a big change to the way the tests ran
<rick_h_> wrote a new decoarator that helped mock out part of the system for tests
<snap-l> rick_h_: Holy shit that's awesome!
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/fabric/commit/76f7f86a72af4681bc653c9ea56ed6bb62685238 was the biggest one
<greg-g> PORK CHOP SANDWICHES!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-17
<jjesse> how's michigan today?
<snap-l> It's happening. :)
<jjesse> sounds like fun :)
<widox> its warm here!
<jjesse> 75 in florida today LP
<jjesse> :P
<jjesse> wow i can't type
<greg-g> rick_h_: dude, congrats on teh fabric commits/authorship
<jjesse> yay for rick_h_
<jjesse> what is fabric?
<greg-g> http://docs.fabfile.org/en/1.0.0/index.html
<gamerchick02> gonna watch some tv
<gamerchick02> see everyone tomorrow
<jjesse> what is the version of libreoffice that is going to shp w/ ubuntu 11.04?
<rick_h_> greg-g: thanks :)
<greg-g> nixternal: yo, fix your blog! :) There is a link from this page to you blog that 404s http://taskwarrior.org/wiki/taskwarrior/AddOns
<nixternal> greg-g: fixed, thanks for that heads up. .htaccess FTW!   redirect 301 /category/gtd /tag/gtd
<wolfger> I see Jono's been hacking on Captcha.... one of today's words was "Community"
<brousch> hm, did rick_h_ inspire the qtile lightening talk at pycon? http://panela.blog-city.com/pycon_2011_thoughts.htm
<greg-g> nixternal: awesome :)
<wolfger> Whee. Fun.
<_stink_> morning
<wolfger> is it, still?
<greg-g> for a bit
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> zzzzzzzz
<rick_h_> everyone cross your fingers I don't get molested today
 * greg-g ponders the meaning of that
<_stink_> gahaha
<_stink_> oh, airplane
<binbrain> rick_h_, score dude, you interviewed Chris McD
<rick_h_> binbrain: heck yea
<rick_h_> and mark ramm, and Michael Foord
<rick_h_> need to get Mark ramms out here before I leave
<wolfger> Molested? LoCoCast has crazed groupies?
<rick_h_> I have to get on a plane in 4 hours
<wolfger> Man, how can anybody be productive when they have to use Microsoft products?
<wolfger> It's maddening?
<wolfger> s/\?/\!/
<wolfger> I mean, heaven forbid you actually highlight exactly what you want....
<wolfger> Microsoft knows better than you, and will automatically highlight more than that
<wolfger> whether you like it or not
<wolfger> so many wasted keystrokes
<rick_h_> gah, can't find a good image for something
<rick_h_> don't want to just rip something off google images :/
<_stink_> conjure brousch to make you one
<brousch> my magical inkscape powers are ever at your disposal
<greg-g> rick_h_: flickr CC search not working?
<rick_h_> greg-g: well it's not built for it
<rick_h_> it's all good, just ranting my disappointment
<greg-g> :)
<wolfger> save it for the podcast ;-)
<rick_h_> more pycon awesomeness for you all http://lococast.net/archives/436
<rick_h_> thanks for all of your RT and such spreading the word
<nixternal> ruby developers always tell me, 'once you start coding with ruby, you will realize python sucks and you will never go back'.   well I have recently been trying to learn ruby, and i must say...it isn't fun to learn, i still want to go back to python, i am not enjoying this learning process :/
<nixternal> yeah, this is the ChiPy channel :/
<rick_h_> lol, that's ok, we can agre
<rick_h_> ruby looks great for sysadmin scripts
<rick_h_> but I'd not want to build a big app with it
<nixternal> i am interested in learning a little rails and playing with it
<rick_h_> ugh, good luck
<nixternal> i could care less about ruby so much, but need to know a little ruby in order to understand rails
<rick_h_> give me pyramid over RoR any day
<nixternal> well, DHH is a friend, and the other night while we were out he kept messing with me about Linux and Python, so i figured I would give it a try
<rick_h_> the world is not AR and deployment/performance matters
<rick_h_> gotcha
<snap-l> Ruby was the first language I looked at after Perl / Java.
<snap-l> and after those languages, Ruby looks quite nice
<nixternal> i like java
<snap-l> but once I broke my brain with Python, Ruby feels more like a hack than anything
<nixternal> hey bastard snap-l. listening to an old lococast via amarok, and you just said you were on vacation in naperville. prick, that's where i live
<snap-l> Python is a virus. ;)
<snap-l> nixternal: orly? :)
<snap-l> nixternal: Shit. I was over at the hotel next to Alcatel / Lucent.
<nixternal> pretty much, yes. i can get there by bike in about 15 minutes
<nixternal> oh yeah, dumb ass, we talked about that
<snap-l> Well, I'll likely be back there in the future
<snap-l> so I'll call you. :)
<nixternal> most def
<wolfger> snap-l: Python is a virus; Perl is the cure?
<snap-l> antidote, yes. Cure, not sure. ;)
<rick_h_> psh, perl is that disease all the rich people are funding to find a cure for so it never exists any more :P
<wolfger> and, "Gee... I can't imagine why you didn't give a shout-out to nixternal when you were in town, considering how kindly he speaks to you..." :-)
<snap-l> rick_h_: We'll just keep on playing with our dead language, thank you.
<brousch> perl, the malaria of programming languages
<rick_h_> :)
<snap-l> And when you run into something that you can't do with any other language, you'll know what emergency handle to reach for. ;)
<nixternal> shush wolfger
<rick_h_> I'll just go use awk, I respect it
<nixternal> i woke up way to freakin' early this morning
<Milyardo> Whats wrong with perl?
<wolfger> It sucks for GUI programming
<snap-l> rick_h_: You'll use awk and not Perl?
<rick_h_> I'm a hater, I like to have an array of hates and perl lost out in the programming space
<nixternal> nothing to be honest. i just suck at regex, so perl hasn't always been my best friend
<rick_h_> snap-l: kind of being a bit funny
<snap-l> Who's the crazy now, rick_h_ ?
 * rick_h_ pokes pokes the buttons
<snap-l> challenge accepted. ;)
<rick_h_> ok, so checkout isn't until noon, have time to eat cheap food outside the airport now. yay
<snap-l> Hurray for not having to eat a $10 bagel and coffee!
<wolfger> Airports: You'll give up your basic human rights, and pay through the nose for the privelage.
<jrwren> anyone use campfire for chat?
<jrwren> plz dont' talk smack about perl. its beautiful.
<rick_h_>  nope, we're a jabber shop
<jrwren> snap-l: what challenge did you accept?
<jrwren> you use a jabber to irssi bridge?
<jrwren> bitlbee at all?
<rick_h_> yea, I use that
<snap-l> jrwren: rick_h_ was pushing my buttons, so I accepted his challenge. ;)
<rick_h_> but for work use pidgin because we do strange dns stuff for our jabber server at work
<jrwren> I found a campfire to jabber bridge... but it feels strange to use 2 bridges
<rick_h_> but use bitlebee for google chat, etc
<binbrain> grub
<rick_h_> woot, tether ftw
<snap-l> working on lococast foo. ;)
<snap-l> I also just made the best into transition of my entire career. :)
<wolfger> pycon = lococast foo; penguicon = lococast bar?
<rick_h_> awesome
<snap-l> wolfger: But of course.;)
<snap-l> Yay, cloudkicker CD arrived in the mail!
<snap-l> http://cloudkicker.bandcamp.com
<jrwren> http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/03/googles-android-faces-serious-linux.html
<jrwren> i'm super annoyed that there are not any actual claims there.
<jrwren> its a load of pontification
<snap-l> Since when have facts gotten in the way of an argumentative FUD article?
<jrwren> no idea.
<snap-l> It's some "IP Activist" looking to stir up some shit about Android
<jrwren> i really hope this goes to court and is judged upon, not settled.
<jrwren> because if the court rules in fav of google, it will open up copyright and redefine fair use.
<snap-l> jrwren: Oh come now, that's not how we play in the new economy
<jrwren> i know.
<snap-l> nothing is ever final; just a lot of accusations and quiet settlements
<jrwren> I know ;_;
<snap-l> courts cost money. Settlements cost less money
<jrwren> i've never heard of htis bionic. sounds like a port of old bsd libc to run on modern linux kernel.
<snap-l> and you don't lose in a settlement
<jrwren> man, I remember hte libc5 to libc6 move... *sigh*
<snap-l> you too?
<jrwren> I know ;_;
<snap-l> That was fuuuuun
<jrwren> snap-l: it was so not fun... but I learned a fuck ton migrating a system.
<wolfger> uh... wtf?
<snap-l> http://saveie6.com/
<rick_h_> woot, getting massive RT run
<jrwren> actually... the really bad part is that if entire APIs are (C)able... things like Wine will be dead and gone
<wolfger> Google may have copied some GPL stuff, ergo Angry Birds might have to release its code?
<jrwren> not to mention that GNU impl of nextstep
<wolfger> I don't get that
<jrwren> wolfger: read the whole article, they do eventually make a point.
<jrwren> clicking the download link on saveie6.com is funny
<wolfger> jrwren: working on it. Just wanted to toss my wtf out there before the discussion dies :-D
<snap-l> jrwren: heh
<snap-l> Amazon is currently having a problem with their storage network, Please stand by.
<snap-l> love, reddit.
<wolfger> I don't get it...
<snap-l> That's the current error message on reddit
<jrwren> O_O
<jrwren> poor amazon
<wolfger> he's claiming that nothing can contain Linux header files without being GPL'd, yet Google created Bionic from libc which is BSD, not GPL.
<jcastro> snap-l: today is permanent waves day for me
<wolfger> so is libc also under attack here?
<jrwren> google bionic... why didn't they just use ulibc ?
<jrwren> google's use of libc is underattack, yes.
<wolfger> I also love how he firmly founds his argument on what Linus said, and then quietly admits "Neither Linus nor I are lawyers."
<jrwren> oh, ulibc is lgpl.. i didn't know... not that it should mater.
<jrwren> then he cites 2 lawyers. keep reading.
<wolfger> first lawyer "points out that he hasn't examined the facts"
<snap-l> jcastro: Awesome. :)
<wolfger> "If a court of law finds that the Bionic library indeed contains copyrightable GPL'd software, the distribution of all software compiled against Bionic -- and of devices containing such software -- will have to stop until there is full compliance with the GPL."
<tjagoda> So
<wolfger> That's a huge difference from the earlier BS statement that Angry Birds and Adobe Flash would have to give up the source.
<tjagoda> I have to design a web database which holds product configuration info
<tjagoda> what existing product can I most easily hack into doing this?
<snap-l> That's like saying that Corel had to OSS Word Perfect because it linked with libc
<snap-l> Old arguments, new players
<snap-l> All we need is someone saying that 2011 is the year of the Android phone, and we'll be living la vida 1996
<snap-l> er, 1999. ;)
<wolfger> 2011 is the year of the Linux phonetop. XD
<tjagoda> Nobody has suggestions for how to make my custom app design easier
<tjagoda> How dare you all not been immediately suited to my needs
<snap-l> ???
<wolfger> That article really sounds a lot like "SCO ownz all ur Linux". s/SCO/GNU/ && s/Linux/Android/
<wolfger> Lots of general comments regarding vague claims.
<wolfger> One non-lawyer who said something years ago before Android exists, one lawyer guessing possibilities while not actually studying the discussed situation...
<wolfger> Why did I waste precious minutes of my life reading that?
<wolfger> Oh, right, jrwren kept saying I should keep reading. :-p
<jrwren> http://www.brownrudnick.com/nr/pdf/alerts/Brown%20Rudnick%20Advisory%20The%20Bionic%20Library-Did%20Google%20Work%20Around%20The%20GPL.pdf
<jrwren> there is a good legal analysis of it.
<jrwren> yes, this time by a lawyer
<jrwren> wolfger: Adobe Flash and EVERYTHING on a phone compiled against Bionic, which would then have to comply with GPL.
<jrwren> so it was a valid statement.
<jrwren> Dalvik would have to be GPL
<jrwren> so everything writing in JAva for Dalvik would have to be GPL
<jrwren> so everything in the Android storewould have to be GPL
<jrwren> remember, this is a "virus" license :)
<jrwren> snap-l: libc isn't GPL, its LGPL
<jrwren> so its nothing like saying corel had to OSS WordPerfect
<wolfger> libc is BSD licensed
<jrwren> i said glibc didn't I?
<jrwren> oh sorry.
<jrwren> glibc.
<wolfger> Bionic was built from libc, according to previous waste-of-time story
<snap-l> jrwren: Right, but there was a confusion for a while about what linking to glibc meant.
<jrwren> snap-l: only confusion by the completely uninformed.
<snap-l> gee, there's a surprise. ;)
<snap-l> I remember one argumen that folks made for not porting things to Linux was because you had to GPL your code with was BS
<jrwren> http://sourceware.org/git/?p=glibc.git;a=blob_plain;f=LICENSES;hb=HEAD
<wolfger> right.... what snap-l said
<jrwren> http://sourceware.org/git/?p=glibc.git;a=blob_plain;f=COPYING;hb=HEAD
<jrwren> it is GPL, not LGPL, my bad.
<wolfger> If Adobe doesn't have to release Flash code for Flash on Linux, why would they have to release it for Flash on Android?
<wolfger> Also, I don't think it would stand up in court that "well, the library you used was actually GPL, and not what it claimed to be, so now you must GPL your software too."
<jrwren> you aren't reading correctly.
<snap-l> @cjoh: Don't understand why the NYTimes doesn't put a picture of Jimmy Wales at the top and just ask people for money.
<wolfger> If that worked, FSF would be out there falsely releasing "safe" libraries all over the place, then saying "Whoops! That library was a violation of GPL. Now the entire world must release source code."
<snap-l> wolfger: Yeah, because RMS is a plotting SOB
<wolfger> tinfoil hats do that to people
<snap-l> It's the end of the world as we know it
<jrwren> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2773437/glibc-philosophical-question
<_stink_> crap, i missed an IP law discussion?
<snap-l> and I feel FIIIIIIINNEEE
<_stink_> oh, still going on.
<wolfger> jrwren: OK, if I'm not reading correctly, please tell me (without use of a URL) how we get from "Google might be infringing copyright" to "3rd party vendors will have to release source code"
<jrwren> wolfger: ugh, I don't want to quote copyright law to you and then paste you the GPL
<wolfger> So in other words... I'm reading it exactly right, and just not coming to the conclusion that fool on that blog came to.
<wolfger> The non-lawyer righting about copyright issues on a patent blog.... :-/
<wolfger> ack s/righting/writing/
<snap-l> patent and copyrght law is like interpretive dance
<snap-l> everyone does it differently, and interprets it differently.
<jrwren> and history.
<jrwren> every GPL settlement has been resolved by righting hte GPL wrong.
<snap-l> precisely
<snap-l> mostly because few people want to be considered as a dick
<wolfger> ah, history...  Good. So you have some example from history of somebody who had to release source code because suddenly a library he used was forced to become GPL?
<jrwren> in this case that would mean GPL of android and bionic and thus dalvik too
<jrwren> wolfger: yes, see linksys case.
<snap-l> esp when you are relying on the charity of others.
<jrwren> although google does have enough $$$, they could give every linux contributor who makes a claim $1,000,000 and get a private license that way.
<binbrain> jrwren: didn't that happen with busybox as well, forgot the company
<jrwren> binbrain: yes.
<tjagoda> Poll:  Best language to write a custom business web app which takes information from humans and stores it into a historical database?
<brousch> tjagoda: your question was lost in the angry froth. MS Access is what you need
<jrwren> tjagoda: C#
<tjagoda> Geah
<tjagoda> And also no
<tjagoda> No machine level nonsense
<tjagoda> =P
<_stink_> tjagoda: LOLCODE
<jrwren> by historical it sounds like you mean temporal
<jrwren> temporal databases can be a real bitch.
<jrwren> C# is not "machine level"
<tjagoda> I would much rather script it than literally code it
<tjagoda> Its also a web app
<tjagoda> Which will probably handshake mysql
<brousch> so, a mostly pre-built database-backed webapp?
<jrwren> script it v. code it.  I don't understand the difference.
<Blazeix> at the risk of being /kickbanned from #ubuntu-us-mi, sharepoint?
<_stink_> i was waiting for someone to say that.
<brousch> some sort of cms will get you most of the way there: plone, drupal
<tjagoda> I hate sharepoint
<_stink_> jrwren++
<tjagoda> We use sharepoint for document libraries
<binbrain> sharepoint is the worst
<jrwren> i said C#, not sharepoint.
<jrwren> i never recommend sharepoint
<wolfger> jrwren: I see one huge difference there. Linksys sells hardware, not software. To fight it and switch chips would have had a huge economic impact on them. Adobe would much more likely say "screw you" and pull Flash off the Android market. Wouldn't cost them a penny to do so.
<tjagoda> jrwren: I am not talking to you
<tjagoda> Was responding to blazeix
<snap-l> wolfger: And it would be one less platform for Flash to be on
<jrwren> i was responsing to Blazeix too
<snap-l> wolfger: And Adobe needs Android to stay competitive in the mobile market.
<brousch> tjagoda: maybe even a wiki
<tjagoda> I think it would be hard to get a good interface in a wiki
<brousch> well see, this is why we need more information :P
<Blazeix> I'm not a fan of sharepoint, either, but if you don't want to code, and want a web-form that keeps track of history, you're going to be stuck with a kludge of an application.
<jrwren> do you really need a temporal aspect?
<brousch> kludge?
<jrwren> or do you just need CRUD?
<Blazeix> brousch: large, clumsy
<brousch> i don't see why keeping track of history makes something big and clumsy
<Blazeix> brousch: it's not just the snapshot history that makes it clumsy, it's all the other requirements, too.
<Blazeix> namely a platform to make a custom business app that doesn't require coding.
<brousch> yes, that one is the big issue i see
<brousch> custom requires coding
<brousch> unless you go with ms access, where you might not need to touch actual code
<brousch> but then it's not a webapp
<brousch> tjagoda: YOU ASK THE IMPOSSIBLE
<wolfger> I'd like a custom app, without having to do any coding. I'd also like oxygen without breathing,  sustenance without eating, and inebriation without alcohol.
<wolfger> :-p
<Blazeix> well, it's possible, you'll just be stuck with a large application like plone or sharepoint
<brousch> then hire jrwren to write it for yu ;)
<wolfger> There are frameworks that allow you to pretend you're building a custom app without coding... But really they just hide the code behind a pretty GUI, and also limit the customizability of the resulting app.
<Blazeix> well, of course. Everything boils down to code in the end.
<jrwren> MS has a product coming out for htis called lightswitch.
<jrwren> its web based multiuser access.
 * brousch wonders if jrwren is serious or joking
<wolfger> it does sound like a punchline is coming, doesn't it?
<brousch> damn, it is a real thing
<wolfger> I mean, the name "Lightswitch" is practically begging for one
<wolfger> OK, now that GPL wars are out of our system, let's move on to something less controversial. How does everybody feel about nuclear power? :-p
<_stink_> it's a good thing.
<wolfger> I just love the way the media uses disasters and even *potential* disasters to play up people's fears
<snap-l> I'm sorry, but when I hear people say that we stand with Japan, I can't help but think of the lyric "I think I'm turning Japanese"
 * snap-l slaps himself
<wolfger> nuclear power plants produce lots of energy with relatively little polution, but ZOMG what if a 9.0 earthquake damages it?!?
<wolfger> snap-l: I really think so
<snap-l> See? see?
<jrwren> i was actually being serious. i wasn't actually recommending its use.
<jrwren> wolfger: there was a GPL war?
<jrwren> i must have missed it.
<wolfger> LOL
<wolfger> I overstate things
<jrwren> me too
<wolfger> can't we all just get along?
<wolfger> s/along/drunk at Penguicon/
<snap-l> Quick note: Rio Grande Games gets an A+ from me for their handling of Race for the Galaxy.
<snap-l> Someone wrote a GPLed version of it, and they allowed him to use the artwork from the cards
<snap-l> http://www.keldon.net/rftg/
<wolfger> awesome
<snap-l> It's nice to see someone not served with a takedown notice for using someone elses content.
<jrwren> the charlie clouser remix of nine inch nails ruiner is awesome.
<jrwren> i serve takedown notice with my fists
<jcastro> snap-l: watch the wah wah documentary I just shared
<jcastro> it's +++
<snap-l> jcastro: I will.
<Blazeix> anyone tried this? http://www.webupd8.org/2011/03/gtk-32-will-let-you-run-any-application.html
<ColonelPanic001> no, but looks interesting
<binbrain> Blazeix: that's pretty sweet
<snap-l> jcastro: You need this guitar: http://thenumberoftheblog.com/2010/03/16/why-i-fucking-hate-m-a-n-despite-never-having-heard-them/
<jcastro> what is that
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2006/03/14/take-it-in-your-hands-and-grasp-natures-majesty/ <- Looks like something from this collection
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/images/bradford_deerblade.jpg
<gamerchick02> lol
<gamerchick02> i've seen those in the mail and newspaper
<snap-l> seriously? Are they as bad as they seem?
<gamerchick02> what? the knives?
<snap-l> yeah
<gamerchick02> i've never seen any in person, but the do look redneck-chic
<snap-l> Ah, I thought you'd seen them in person
<gamerchick02> no no no.
<gamerchick02> in the newspaper and those mailer things you get from the post office
<snap-l> I am sorely disappointed
<snap-l> Yeah, that's where I saw that
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2008/03/16/and-now-from-the-wtf-were-they-thinking-collection/
<gamerchick02> jesus christ on a pogo stick those are freaky
<gamerchick02> and yes, i have a gif of JC on a pogo stick. i've used it on tumblr. quite handy
<snap-l> Yeah, me too
<jcastro> HEY CRAIG
<jcastro> and gamerchick02
<jcastro> http://castrojo.blip.tv/file/4898822/
<jcastro> you might need to fullscreen it to get the effect. :)
<gamerchick02> hi jcastro, what's up?
<jcastro> stefano's made it so you can just search Ask right from the dash
<jcastro> and it'll search and return stuff
<jcastro> aka. live help for the win
<gamerchick02> hrm. cool. i've gotta update on the netbook, but after Saturday.
<jcastro> it's ok he's only just working on it now and it's all insane to install it anyway
<gamerchick02> is there going to be a Beta soon?
<gamerchick02> of Natty, i mean?
<jcastro> of the place
<jcastro> beta's on the 24th or something iirc
<gamerchick02> sweet. i think i'll wait til then. :)
<jcastro> it's just so cool
<jcastro> it will be so nice
<gamerchick02> you're really excited for Unity, aren't you?
<gamerchick02> i'm a little more reserved, but i'm looking forward to the changes. i'll be writing up a lengthy blog post about my experiences on my netbook and my laptop.
<jcastro> I was talking about the Ask place
<jcastro> but yeah, I guess Unity too
<gamerchick02> oh. whoops.
<gamerchick02> heh
<jcastro> though I'm a browser guy
<jcastro> I am a fan of anything that gets out of my way
<gamerchick02> Chrome all the way over here.
<jcastro> me too
<gamerchick02> well, and chromium sometimes. and i've installed the FF beta.
<gamerchick02> or, release candidate, rather.
<snap-l> jcastro: That's intersting
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-18
<greg-g> :)
<jjesse> well hello greg-g
<greg-g> hi there, I'm actually smiling because I guilt tripped DBO to rejoin the channel ;)
<DBO> :)
<greg-g> man, jcastro is really a great cheer leader
<greg-g> (for context, see #ubuntu-meeting)
<jcastro> he's like 4 years late
<greg-g> ;)
<greg-g> I know dude, we're gonna vote soon, nhandler is just at dinner, and he has control of the bot :/
<jjesse> meeting going on?
<greg-g> yep
<brousch> eh?
<brousch> voting whether to become #debian-us-mi or #gentoo-us-mi?
<jjesse> lol
<jjesse> #ubuntu-meeting
<jjesse> for DBO
<greg-g> brousch: :P
<DBO> :)
 * DBO just glad I didn't code through a second one of these
<DBO> multitouch is sooo interesting
<greg-g> (he's a member now)
<DBO> what happens if a vote goes 50/50?
<greg-g> you know, I don't know, we usually try to have an odd number of people voting, but that doesn't always happen
<greg-g> and, we've never had that kind of split
<DBO> i hope the answer involves a Rancor
<DBO> I considered attempting to get sabdfl to write a testimonial... just to see if he would
<jrwren> i vote no.
<greg-g> haha, that'd be awesome
<DBO> does wmich.edu still run a mirror I wonder...
<rick_h_> snap-l: your twitter name is too long
<rick_h_> too hard to fit it :P
<brousch> too long and too hard?
<brousch> i got flask running on google app engine. it's much, much smaller than django with non-rel patch
<brousch> like 200 files compared to 2000
<jjesse> do sportscasters actually listen to what they say?
<jjesse> one just said "that was a big squirt"
<brousch> took 4 seconds to be ready to serve compared to 2 minutes
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, flash is great for that small kind of stuff
<Blazeix> let it be known that rick_h_ encourages people to use flash.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Sorry, but blame Twitter fr not allowing me to use my old account
<jjesse> apparently im supposed to thank craig for his awesome editing
<snap-l> jjesse: You're welcome. :)
<snap-l> http://i.imgur.com/zWMXc.jpg
<rick_h_> Blazeix: not sure on the replacement
<rick_h_> I know the definition is "tags separated with spaces"
<rick_h_> so yea, it breaks up spaces right now
<rick_h_> I've not looked at catching "some tag" and such yet
<Blazeix> ok. for now the google bookmark importer replaces spaces with hyphens, just to match the end result of the delicious importer.
<rick_h_> yea, caught that. It different since delicious puts all the tags into a tag="this tag list"
<rick_h_> so I can't tell they're separate, but google bookmarks does the repitition stuff you can catch
<rick_h_> works for me for now though
<rick_h_> tests pass :)
<Blazeix> delicious comma-separates them, i think
<Blazeix> right, ship it!
<tjagoda> Ubuntu server question
<tjagoda> I want to chart system resource usage over time
<tjagoda> I would assume there is already a package for this?
<rick_h_> tjagoda: yea, you're looking at something like cacti http://www.cacti.net/ or munin
<tjagoda> nm, I just added a crontab to output the uptime command into a logfile
<tjagoda> I dont need anything crazy
<tjagoda> Just want to see the load over 24 hours or so
<brousch> tjagoda: did you find the mythical code-free custom business webapp creator?
<tjagoda> You all misunderstood me
<tjagoda> I resolved to write it in PERL
<tjagoda> I was wondering if there were any frameworks which would make my life easier in not having to code everything from the ground up
<brousch> a perl framework?
<tjagoda> I resolved to write it in PERL post-looking for frameworks
<brousch> why do you hate yourself so much?
<tjagoda> Why would anyone not want to code with a chainsaw?
<brousch> because its easy to cut off your own leg
<brousch> and no one wants to help a chainsaw-wielding madman
<tjagoda> My business application will be a temple to Larry Wall
<tjagoda> I wonder how I can figure out disk throughput on ubuntu server
 * tjagoda googles more
<rick_h_> so I've got some Pycon t-shirts, stickers, and IDE discount codes for people at the next CHC
<rick_h_> don't let me forget
<widox> morning
<tjagoda> hola
<brousch> ide discounts?
<brousch> rick_h_: you mean like pycharm?
<rick_h_> I've got wingide and komodo
<rick_h_> I don't think I grabbed the pycharm one
<rick_h_> they were there with discounts, but don't think it was in the goody bag
<brousch> i use komodo's free version often
<brousch> the paid version adds debugging, woohoo
<rick_h_> $50 off komodo software thorgh 3/31
<rick_h_> and 50% off wingide professional
<brousch> never tried that one
<rick_h_> it's one of the best for python
<rick_h_> much better than komodo
<rick_h_> imo
<brousch> komodo is nice for webapps because it understands css and html
<brousch> i think it even does django templates now
<brousch> did you feel dirty picking up those discounts?
<brousch> looks like wing does django templates too
<rick_h_> no, I'm not using them
<rick_h_> but figured give-aways with the group is good stuff
<snap-l> g'mornin'
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> rick_h_: You get home OK last night?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> just made the waiting list for the next flight 2hrs later
<snap-l> Coolness
<snap-l> That was my biggest fear whenI was flying.
<rick_h_> yea, it was a big newbie mistake
<snap-l> Well, second biggest. First biggest was being detained by TSA for having more than 3oz of fluid
<rick_h_> for some reason I had the time on the ticket as boarding time, and they moved the gate on me, etc
<snap-l> ugh
<snap-l> Banshee is going to have DVD support?
<snap-l> They're working hard to be Windows Media Center, aren't they?
<brousch> i'm watching the IDE shootout panel from pycon 2011. pycharm looks really nice
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, it's the new kid on the block and supposedly is nice and updating fast
<brousch> i was supposed to try it in feb and never got to it
<brousch> also, it's frickin awesome that thse videos are up already
<rick_h_> yea, they had them up in the middle of the conference
<rick_h_> by day 2, day one videos were going up, just crazy
<brousch> i found 5 i need to watch
<brousch> was it the same group of video people as at pyohio?
<rick_h_> you should find more than that
<rick_h_> yea, same group
<rick_h_> PSF pays them I think
<brousch> damn, wing looks good too. maybe there's something to non-free ides
<rick_h_> I was a big fan of wing
<rick_h_> I just got cranky because I did php by day
<rick_h_> python by night
<rick_h_> and was using Zend studio for php, wing for python and tired of two editors
<brousch> heh, emacs is in the shootout, but no vim
<rick_h_> yea, I was in another talk :(
<rick_h_> or else I would have represented
<brousch> heh
<rick_h_> first conference in a while I didn't do an vim openspace
<brousch> so were you demoing awesome in the hall?
<rick_h_> heh no, but ran into a few fellow users
<brousch> the qtile guy mentioned seeing someone demoing awesome in the hall and so decided to do his lightening talk
<rick_h_> heh, wasn't me
<brousch> emacs guy is running ubuntu on mbp
<brousch> you would have blown them all away
<jrwren> tjagoda: i didn't know you were looking for perl frameworks. I'll look up the name of the one that I would use.
<jrwren> tjagoda: your question was "what language would ya'll use..." wasn't it?
<tjagoda> I originally asked for a good framework in general, afterwards deciding that I wanted to use a chainsaw (read: perl)
<jrwren> oh, chainsaw. cool.
<rick_h_> python, stdlib ftw
<rick_h_> http://docs.python.org/library/index.html#library-index
<jrwren> stdlib?
<jrwren> what specifically?
<rick_h_> just if you're trying to do system stuff there's a ton of tools that's OS specific/etc
<rick_h_> and it's not extra packages
<jrwren> oh yeah, definitely.
<rick_h_> so for a framework, fewer extra deps ftw
<jrwren> perl has the same great system stuff
<snap-l> Perl is quite rich when it comes to built-in foo
<rick_h_> counting cpan as 'built in'?
<snap-l> No, not counting cpan
<jrwren> although last time I used perl, sets were external had to get from cpan, where python sets are NICE
<rick_h_> gotcha, k
<snap-l> jrwren: Python has had the benefit of a more visible and active development process in the past few years
<snap-l> and it looks like more stuff is getting backported from 3 to 2
<jrwren> s/few years/decade/
<snap-l> jrwren: now now...
<jrwren> seriously.
<snap-l> I'm sure 5.14 is just lovely. ;)
<jrwren> there is a 5.14?
<snap-l> iirc, there is
<jrwren> wait.
<jrwren> there is a 5.12 ?
<snap-l> and a 5.10, 5.8
<jrwren> yes, those I've used.
<jrwren> i've not used 5.12 or 5.14
<jrwren> perl -V on mavrick says 5.10 :)
<snap-l> Yeah, not many folks have adopted 5.12
<snap-l> http://perldoc.perl.org/perldelta.html
<snap-l> http://www.effectiveperlprogramming.com/blog/531
<snap-l> I mean, it's not as sexy as the releast of Python that included sets, and other from __future__ import goodness...
<snap-l> but there's still a pulse.
<snap-l> apparently.
<snap-l> hell, I'm sure someone was waiting for Carp to get an upgrade.
<snap-l> *cough*
<rick_h_> you can upgrade fish?
<snap-l> I can slap you with one.
<rick_h_> :)
<snap-l> I managed to pick up a booklinght on steroids last night from Staples for 11.50
<snap-l> It's a desk lamp with at least 16 LEDs in it
<snap-l> 6x6, so 36 (hadn't looked under there until now. :) )
<jrwren> oooh.. Carp...
<snap-l> Nice and cool as well, though the directions tell you not to put it next to anything flammable.
<jrwren> i only remember the name and I can't remember wht Carp actually is.
<snap-l> error handling
<_stink_> snap-l: "put it next to" or "point it at"?
<snap-l> _stink_: keep away from materials that burn
<_stink_> i was hoping it was a firebeam.
<rick_h_> anyone want to do me a favor a deface a site?
<rick_h_> I'll give you the keys
<snap-l> only if I have indemnity
<rick_h_> depressing that I'm sitting here doing horrible security things because I'm told to "the client wants it to be easier"
<rick_h_> tor?
<snap-l> too risky
<rick_h_> crap
<snap-l> Could post it to full disclosure
<brousch> this is why wikileaks was created
<rick_h_> heh
<snap-l> I'm sure someone would bork it for you
<rick_h_> heh, no I don't want anonymous involved. Just want one small lesson.
 * rick_h_ hangs head in shame
<snap-l> What are they having you do?
 * rick_h_ is resetting passwords from random generated 6 char to 4 digits
<rick_h_> and the 4 digits are in the usernames
<brousch> awesome
<rick_h_> yea, these guys are my heros
<rick_h_> and it's an app that's on the public internet not limited to an intranet
<snap-l> Almost as good as the site that I was maintaining that would send you one of 6 passwords if you forgot it
<rick_h_> so I've raised hell for the last several months as the project went along
<snap-l> really secure
<rick_h_> and I finally got overruled
<snap-l> Hey, you just made some rainbow tabler's life that much easier. ;)
<Blazeix> I have a client with admin privileges to her public website, and she refused to change her password.
<Blazeix> her password is her username.
<rick_h_> and not only that, but the digits are matched to store #'s so if you worked/knew anything you could guess
<rick_h_> so not even random 4 digits
<snap-l> rick_h_: You could send the interested parties the hack that happened to gawker media
<rick_h_> my boss saw that, sent him all that info
<snap-l> someone gets a bug up their butt about your site, you're going down if you don't have good security.
<rick_h_> he was my lat hope
<snap-l> and he overruled?
<rick_h_> /lat/last
<rick_h_> end of the day it sounds like one of those "client pays the bills, give what they want"
<snap-l> Could put a little note in the password e-mail: Here is your ridiculously simple and easy to remember password. Hope your admin made backups".
<brousch> until they blame you when they get defaced
<rick_h_> well, I pushed that we make them sign something that says we're not responsible and will not correct the data if defaced
<rick_h_> they've not written/signed this, but discussed it
<snap-l> rick_h_: You've done your job then
<rick_h_> yea, I know...still depressing as hell to run these commands
<snap-l> and hopefully your company will be smart and follow through
<brousch> i assume your objections have all been documented
<rick_h_> yea, email out the yingyang
<rick_h_> heh, asked in my email "have we had them sign the ..." and the reply was "thanks for the work" with no reference to my question
<krondor> Woo, first ubuntu server in production at my work; mission accomplished
<rick_h_> congrats!
<krondor> Thought I'd never see a non suse or redhat box here
<jrwren> congrats, I guess.
<jrwren> IMO that was always fighting hte wrong battle, but if you are happy about it, then congrats.
<brousch> what is the right battle?
<jrwren> less windows servers, more linux servers.
<brousch> sounds like he's already won that battle
<jrwren> could be.
<rick_h_> Blazeix: you seen this? http://zeptojs.com/
<snap-l> aerogel-weight?
<snap-l> Why am I geting the feeling this will be as heavy as jQuery in two years?
<rick_h_> meh, two years be doing a different library, or language, or something
<snap-l> Well, I love these "minimal" frameworks
<snap-l> they start off light and fluffy
<rick_h_> well I love the idea
<rick_h_> you can drop a ton of code in jquery
<snap-l> and then framework puberty hits, and suddenly they can't keep the pounds off
<rick_h_> when you target mobile only
<rick_h_> especially because it's basically targetting one, mobile webkit
<snap-l> and then someone comes along and says "hey, we need a minimal framework"
<snap-l> wash, rinse, repeat...
<rick_h_> it's how things get better
<rick_h_> see "we need a minimal browser..." FF is born
<jrwren> jquery is heavy?
<rick_h_> for mobile it can be
<jrwren> ah, definitely.
<jrwren> in 2 yrs jquery won't be heavy for mobile.
<jrwren> mobile JS will be fast as hell
<rick_h_> that's this thing, keep the API, drop all the extra browser stuff
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren> oh!!!
<jrwren> zeptojs is jquery compat.  brilliant!
<rick_h_> exactly
<jrwren> that is brilliant.
<rick_h_> in theory you could keep a lot of your code using jquery for the live site and move to movile
<jrwren> especially for really shitty mobile like WP7 and blackberry
<rick_h_> so maybe keep the events, control code
<rick_h_> but replace the ui interaction bit with mobile specific
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, this does look cool. :)
<rick_h_> ouch, my bookmarks file 300k
<rick_h_> lmorchard's 4.8mb
<rick_h_> this is going to be fun
<rick_h_> time to kill sqlite
<rick_h_> 1:20s, not as bad as I thought it would be
<rick_h_> damn, 7.3k tags, 16.7k bookmarks
<snap-l> Oh brilliant, A/L blocks one.ubuntu.com
<snap-l> _and_ dropbox.com
<brousch> they found you out
<snap-l>  thank God they don't block port.usb
<brousch> yet
<snap-l> and when they do, I'll stop using this piece of shit Windows machine for anything other than e-mail
<snap-l> and Microsoft Communicator
<snap-l> Man, Windows is slow.
<tjagoda> XP?
<snap-l> ayep
<jrwren> its likely not windows or even XP, but rather insane corporate group policy and AV
<tjagoda> Symantec endpoint eats systems alive
<tjagoda> I am amazed, always, by how fast fresh XP installations run before I let people or AV touch them
<snap-l> jrwren: ding ding ding
<snap-l> mcaffee here
<jrwren> i should NOT have had those 2 beers at lunch.
<jcastro> http://ignitedetroit.net/
<jcastro> snap-l: ^
<jcastro> rick_h_: ^
<jcastro> greg-g: ^
<jcastro> everyone ^
<gamerchick02> two beers at lunch?
<gamerchick02> sounds like the way to do it! :)
<snap-l> When are tickets going up, since the site hasn't been updated
<rick_h_> cool
<rick_h_> thanks for the reminder jcastro
<jrwren> gamerchick02: yeah, and NCAA b-ball.  good time.
<gamerchick02> oooh. cool.
<gamerchick02> i'm not a fan of basketball, but it's a good reason to have a couple beers at lunch. :)
<jcastro> snap-l: they are up, it's nonobvious, click on the box on the right
<jcastro> wrt. ignitedetroit register because they sell out fast, you can always give them to someone else if you can't make it
<rick_h_> jcastro: wife friendly you htink?
<jcastro> rick_h_: very much so
<jcastro> jill loved it
<jcastro> all the subjects are interesting, it's not tech heavy
<jcastro> like there was one on "how to buy a car without getting ripped off", etc.
<jcastro> they're all very interesting
<rick_h_> k, registered
<rick_h_> thanks
<greg-g> wtf, the onclick() isn't working when I click register!
<greg-g> ok, chromium works, but not Fx4? oh well, registered!
<snap-l> just registered.
<jrwren> Fx4?  JavaFX?
<snap-l> Firefox 4
<jrwren> Flex4 ?
<jrwren> isn't that FF4 /
<snap-l> Nobody uses Java
<greg-g> it is the official short name for Firefox
<jrwren> rofl. I wish noone used java.
<snap-l> meant JavaFX
<jrwren> it is? I've always seen Fx as the abrev for Flex
<snap-l> jrwren: There is a world outside of Miscrosoft / Adobe. ;)
<greg-g> https://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/releases/1.5.html#FAQ
<snap-l> You should step outside and smell the fresh air sometime. ;)
<jrwren> no there isn't.
<snap-l> Well, I hope the tea is good, number 6
<jrwren> http://www.adobe.com/products/flex/
<snap-l> Flex's new abbreviation is FuckYourselfInTheNex
<snap-l> 4
<jrwren> *gasp* how offensive
<snap-l> Mission Accomplished
<jrwren> wasn't the linux community in love with Air for about a month when tweetdeck first shipped?
<snap-l> Yeah, and then they realized the only thing Air was good for was twitter apps
<snap-l> and someone in the group-think-tank decided that Adobe should die in a fire.
<jcastro> jrwren: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hbdpomandigafcibbmofojjchbcdagbl
<jcastro> jrwren: though there's a weburl somewhere
<jrwren> snap-l: such a fickle user base.
<jrwren> so now people run tweetdeck in chrome instead of air?
<jrwren> oh, there is tweetdeck chrome and tweetdeck desktop.
<jcastro> the chrome thing is just their webapp packaged for chrome
 * jcastro personally uses seesmic.com/web
 * snap-l uses gwibber / vim
<snap-l> And yes, userbases are fickle
<snap-l> I think Air's biggest problem was that people treated it like a desktop app, and it wsan't.
<snap-l> Man, i do not like SOAp
<_stink_> me neither.
<_stink_> snap-l: you writing a client or something?
<snap-l> trying to write one in Python with suds
<snap-l> just to test some foo for work
<_stink_> snap-l: ah, cool.  i found suds a few weeks ago.  seems ok.
<snap-l> and I'm not understanding how to get what I'm seeing in our developer guide into suds
<_stink_> i confess i just fed suds a WSDL file and that was that.
<snap-l> yeah, that's what I'm attempting as well
<snap-l> though there's a login piece (not HTTPAuth, afaict) that I need to pass along
<snap-l> Thank God for stack overflow. ;)
<_stink_> hehe
<snap-l> Ah, it's a separate piece for wsse
<snap-l> I should have asked the GOOG a while ago
<jrwren> SOAP sucks unless you are using great tools along with it.
<snap-l> jrwren: SOAP looks like it's best used with a program that just writes the damn code for you
<krondor> I once tried to write a bad program against the soap apis for novell groupwise, I ende
<krondor> Sorry, ended up just using com
<Milyardo> What can SOAP do that XMLRPC can't?
<krondor> I cringe just looking at that sentencd
<krondor> Soap supports different encodings and data types it seems, I think it has support for authentication methods too
<_stink_> yeah, it does.
<Milyardo> If my understaning of SOAP and XMLRPC is correct, that they are tools to serialize structured information, then authentication sounds like it doesn't really belong
<Milyardo> *understnaing of the purpose of XMLRPC and SOAP
<Milyardo> *understanding ->
<krondor> I think soap needed the authentication as services tried to rely on xml-rpc to manipulate an API (like in the case of groupwise) from xml input
<krondor> Not just structure the information, but act on it
<krondor> Did that make sense? IANA programmer
<Milyardo> Not really an arguement for "why authentication shouldn't be handled more approiately elsewhere", more of a "why applications that XMLRPC need authentication"
<Milyardo> The problem is that the transport for XMLRPC(HTTP) is stateless
<Milyardo> You'd be better off implementing authentication in HTTP than in your document
<krondor> Yeah I was just going off where I've seen it used (shudder group wise)  not if it was the right thing to do
 * krondor quitting time
<brousch> man, that's nice. pycharm has google app engine runs and uploads built-in
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-19
<rick_h_> jrwren: :P re: twitter
<jrwren> rick_h_: saved my ass :)
<brousch> you mean he finally rescued you from your .net and windows addictions?
<rick_h_> huh?
<jrwren> addictions? purhaps.
<jrwren> but i was replying re: twitter
<jrwren> :)
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<rick_h_> the recently closed stuff
<jrwren> yes
<brousch> i do not see these things
<brousch> oh, the tab thing
<snap-l> ?
<snap-l> Oh, n/m
<brousch> i got flask running on dreamhost and google app engine. i am 1337
<snap-l> Ugh, just managed to trash my Google Chrome profile
<jrwren> what is flask?
<snap-l> Squeezebox duet and squeezebox boom are both on sale on Amazon's deal of the day for $169
<jrwren> python is cool.
<jrwren> urllib.FancyURLopener
<jrwren> i just love that someone named it Fancy
<jrwren> what is squeezebox? :)
<snap-l> It's an internet radio / music device
<snap-l> quite cool. I have the "clock radio" and it's pretty awesome.
<snap-l> Has nice server software
<jrwren> i just patched play2wifi to not require any xbmc packages \m/
<jrwren> trivial too.
<rick_h_> _stink_: http://pychess.org/
<rick_h_> you ever see that?
<snap-l> Just tried it. It crashed on me.
<snap-l> "illegal instruction"
<_stink_> rick_h_: naw, hadn't
<snap-l> the one that's in the repo for Lucid is not working
<_stink_> hmm.
<snap-l> I might have botched something
<snap-l> nope. Still crashing
<snap-l> For whatever reason I can't even get the version that I downloaded to run without crashing
<rick_h_> interesting, they just hit the python announce list with an update
<rick_h_> where I ran into it
<snap-l> trying again
<snap-l> and crashed
<snap-l> Submitted them a bug report
<snap-l> Have any of you had any luck with it?
<snap-l> too bad there's no pip install. ;)
<rick_h_> no, mainly figured _stink_ could steal some AI or something for pyramid chess
<snap-l> Nice, my mouse just fucked up, so I couldn't click on anything. ;)
<_stink_> yeah, i might be stealing some code from it.  even if it doesn't work. :P
<snap-l> _stink_: Oh definitely
<snap-l> And I think it's something that's specific to my setup
<snap-l> It does look like a neat program, though
<brousch> jrwren: Flask is a python microframework. So far i find it easy to use and learn.
<rick_h_> http://pycon.blip.tv/file/4880330/ great talk
<rick_h_> some pep8/pyflakes love
<rick_h_> even though they're django users
<brousch> i watched the mark ramm vs django talk. it was disappointing
<brousch> "django, i don't like you, but please share your toys"
<rick_h_> yea, well he was invited and was very hate with love kind of thing to it
<brousch> he wanted to go off but never did, except on poor little web2py
<rick_h_> well that's the one thing 95% of python agree on
<brousch> to me, it came off as him not liking django, but being too restrained to actually say anything bad
<rick_h_> there's a huge convore thread on web2py vs everyone else from pycon
<brousch> i didn't realize it was so controversial
<rick_h_> heh, we had this discussion at dinner the first night of pycon
<rick_h_> we had some django users in our group
<rick_h_> and mark and I went off :)
<rick_h_> was fun
<snap-l> Yeah, Mark is pretty consistent about his dislike, but respect of Django
<snap-l> Maybe even dislike is too strong of a word
<rick_h_> yea, I mean you can't argue that it's a huge win for python as a language/etc
<rick_h_> it's like saying Ruby would be better off without rails
<rick_h_> doesn't mean rails doesnt suck
<snap-l> Just told JoDee that I wrote some nose tests
<brousch> so far the best talk i've watched is Teaching Python with Robots
<snap-l> she says "nose"?
<snap-l> "Yeah, I mean, you have carrot and celery, you need a nose to test them"
<rick_h_> awesome
<jjesse> happy saturday :P
<rick_h_> party
<brousch_tablet> rick_h_: what did you use to stream lococast live?
<rick_h_> ustream
<rick_h_> brousch_tablet: ^^
<rick_h_> heh, tablet eh? Did brousch_tablet get a new toy I missed?
<brousch_tablet> no, my 6 year old hp tc1100
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<jrwren> cacluator?
<brousch_tablet> tablet
<jrwren> those are 6yo now? wow.
<jrwren> would be interesting to drop a SSD in one.
<jrwren> let it swap to SSD and see how it performs.
<brousch_tablet> yeah
<DBO> uhg I am so bored
<rick_h_> DBO: boooo
<rick_h_> hey, you up for an interview chat about unity sometime?
<rick_h_> jcastro: thought you might be a good person to chat with
<DBO> sure
<DBO> anytime
<DBO> I love that kind of stuff
<DBO> its a lot more fun than writing autohide state machine code
<DBO> (guess what I am doing right now)
<rick_h_> cool, PM me an email and I'll ping you on it
<rick_h_> heh, wheeee
<snap-l> heh
<DBO> jason.smith@canonical.com
<DBO> no need for PM
<DBO> that things everywhere...
<rick_h_> snap-l: let's schedule some time to dit down and grill DBO on unity :P
<snap-l> I'll bring the skewers
<greg-g> w00t, follow up skype interview with wikimedia!
<snap-l> greg-g: Awesomesauce
<DBO> skewers eh?
<snap-l> Prefer pitchforks? OK.
<rick_h_> heh, well we've been a bit negative, but I had a good talk at pycon with evan
<DBO> much better thank you
<rick_h_> so I guess we have some questions to ask we don't hear a lot about
<DBO> negative?
<rick_h_> our experiences trying unity hasn't convinced us it's the one true way?
<snap-l> We think that Mark should write more checks and do less UI design
<DBO> logged channel right?
<rick_h_> http://lococast.net/archives/381 & maybe http://lococast.net/tag/unity
<rick_h_> yea, channel is logged
<DBO> right
<DBO> okay well I understand the feeling
<DBO> I even empathize with it
<rick_h_> well, talking with evan I think there's some points that don't get discussed a lot
<rick_h_> it was educational for me
<snap-l> I know it's a work in progress
<rick_h_> so I'ld like to bring some of that out
<DBO> yeah I'd love to help out
<rick_h_> that's my goal anyway
<snap-l> I'm sympathetic to Ubuntu making changes
<DBO> Unity is largely misunderstood I think
<snap-l> Trust us, we're not Boycott Novell
<rick_h_> I'll work on some questions/topic stuff in a google doc and share with you
<rick_h_> and we'll plan out an interview/etc
<DBO> snap-l, I like boycott novell, they are like The Onion of FOSS
<rick_h_> except they're actually a bit serious
<rick_h_> yet just as ridiculus
<snap-l> DBO: Unintentionally, I'm sure.
<DBO> yes but they can be quite hard to tell from satire
<DBO> indeed
<DBO> i must admit, Im not super big on FLOSS politics
<snap-l> hear hear
<DBO> so what are your opinions on Unity
<DBO> I would love to hear it
<DBO> good or bad, you dont need to sugar coat it
<DBO> (I hate how people are afraid of offending me like I designed it or something)
<rick_h_> my overall thing is that it seems like all the design/etc going into it is for non-linux uses
<rick_h_> and I can see those people liking it, that's a win for sure
<rick_h_> but I fear that it leaves out advanced users
<rick_h_> and I wonder if long term advanced/power users/developers will abadon for another platform
<rick_h_> and Ubuntu will suffer
<brousch> bah, screw advanced users. they have tiling
<rick_h_> you never hear about unityu\ great for dev work unless it's about how much space you save going fullscreen
<rick_h_> but what devs runs fullscreen all the time
<rick_h_> anyway, this is the type of convo I want to have in the interview, but hope that gets it started
<DBO> okay, thanks for that, I disagree but thats because I dev in Unity :P
<rick_h_> right, and I'm kind of a nut since I coming from AwesomeWM anyway
<brousch> what ide/editor?
<rick_h_> but I think we can agree that most of the design blog posts/usability studies are non-linux 'let's make things easy' users?
<rick_h_> so that's what I want to get at, is there just a publicity issue? who's representing the poewr users during design (evan says Mark is a big speaker of that group, which I'd never heard) etc
<DBO> I would say the major camps are
<DBO> Newbies have the design team, non-developer power users have mark, and developer level power users have DX
<brousch> "Rick Harding: a gracious podcaster and hacker who has a very easygoing manner."
<brousch> easygoing?!?!
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> hey, nothing to rant about. I was surrounded by python and awesomeness
<brousch> fascinating
<DBO> Im going to just go ahead and say it
<DBO> python is evil
<brousch> whaaaaat?
<brousch> now rick_h_ is going to rip you a new one
<DBO> yeah you heard me
<DBO> evil
<DBO> pfft I've been to his house
<DBO> I know where he lives
<DBO> I met his wife and ate his cereal
<brousch> was he aware you did these things?
<rick_h_> oh man, he ran away
<rick_h_> wtf
<brousch> of course he did
<brousch> he just revealed that he met your cereal and ate your wife while you weren't home
<brousch> DBO: klmz? are you on the west side?
<DBO> sorry about that
<DBO> yep
<DBO> kalamazoo
<rick_h_> you haven't left that hole yet?
<rick_h_> did you finish school?
<brousch> hm, well i gues i won't invite you to grpug, but wmlug meets the last thursday of the month in GR
<DBO> rick_h_, kinda
<DBO> but I live here now
<DBO> why?
<rick_h_> just curious
<DBO> well the thing I like about Kalamazoo is that everyone thinks I come from an imaginary place
<rick_h_> nice
<DBO> also, my girlfriend is still going to school here
<DBO> rick_h_, how are things going for you
<rick_h_> good stuff, just got back from pycon, having a lot of fun with bookie, and my 1yr old is crazy
<Unguided> Hello All! ny of you from the souteast Michigan area?
<rick_h_> most of us are
<Unguided> *southeast
<Unguided> Hot dog! Im from toledo and can not find anyone who uses ubuntu. Isnt that sad?
<DBO> Unguided, go to your local computer science campus
<DBO> I wish there were more folks here from Kalamazoo area
<Unguided> Yeah. Im a newb to ubuntu myself and was looking for a local group to help me along. Im dyslexic and reading the books is both slow and painful. Im a strong auditory/visual learner.
<DBO> how does that affect your IRC usage?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-20
<Unguided> I dont see letters backwards or anything like that. I have reading comprehension dyslexia. takes me forever to read 20 pages.
<Unguided> Im definitely not stupid either. My day job is a registered nurse. I just dont learn things as fast as everyone else.
<Unguided> As far as IRC, It doesnt. But it is nice to know there are people close to my area that use ubuntu as well
<DBO> :) there are probably a lot of people in toledo as well
<Unguided> I just havent been able to find them. does anyone know of group meetings and such that someone like me can learn be hearing and sight?
<Unguided> *by
<DBO> checking it out right now :)
<DBO> Unguided,
<DBO> http://www.talug.org/
<DBO> looks like the next meeting is April 9th, 1:00 to 3:30 PM at the Toledo Sanger Branch Library, AV Room A
<Unguided> DBO: Thanks. Can u give me any search tips also. I try to use google.com/linux and most of the searches seem to produce nothing of the information I am trying to find. help zeroing in would be great.
<DBO> LUG is the key search term
<DBO> its short for "linux user group"
<DBO> almost all linux user groups go by the name LUG
<snap-l> DBO: My biggest beef with Unity is that it's clunky.
<DBO> snap-l, maverick or natty version?
<snap-l> Natty, recent build (Alpha 2)
<snap-l> The fading-in menu bar is where I want to spit fire
<snap-l> warning: I have just tried to install something via Wine, so I'm rady to rip faces off
<DBO> ah the menu bar thing
<DBO> yeah its terrible
<snap-l> And I'm not a fan of the left-handed dock bar
<DBO> I voted for it to be positional
<DBO> i dont think thats out of the cards either
<snap-l> DBO: Thank you. :)
<snap-l> I don't remember if it has the application menu that takes up the whole damn screen
<snap-l> I really don't like that
<DBO> RTL will eventually force us to make it possible to place on the right at least
<DBO> and hell, if we are going to do that, might as well support the bottom
<snap-l> Precisely
<DBO> the application menu no longer takes up the whole screen
<tjagoda> Unity is painful =(
<strangeone> very
<strangeone> I gave natty th eboot when the side bar could not make up its mind about where it belonged in regards to my application windows
<strangeone> the*
<tjagoda> I enjoy how the file menus are removed from firefox and there's no way I can add them back in even when I swap into classic gnome mode
<tjagoda> If they break it all we may become #linux-mint-us-mi or #debian-us-mi =P
<strangeone> lol
<brousch> poor google. they can't even make an ubuntu-quality .deb any more
<brousch> "The installation of a package which violates the quality standards isn't allowed. This could cause serious problems on your computer. Please contact the person or organisation who provided this package file and include the details beneath."
<strangeone> yeah I have been pushed back to chromium instead of chrome for compatibility issues
<strangeone> both on this ubuntu based bodhi and on crunchbang as well
<snap-l> http://exde.org/ <- And we get yet another desktop environment for our trouble
<snap-l> http://exde.org/node/3 <- The roadmap is brillaint
<snap-l> I look forward to being able to brew a pot of tea from my window bar.
<strangeone> I am growing attached to enlightenment :S
<strangeone> but not brave enough to try it on natty
<strangeone> afreaid I will break a lot of things
<tjagoda> Whats with all these newfangled window managers trying to steal my file and menu buttons?
<tjagoda> =(
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> morning
<rick_h_> ah, the smell of new passing tests in the morning lol
<_stink_> heh
<brousch> i swear i read that "pissing tests"
<brousch> are you on the drugs?
<rick_h_> pretty much
<snap-l> It is now 10:30, and I have not yet had coffee
<snap-l> This is a crime against humanity.
<snap-l> Are slideshare and scribd owned by the same company?
<snap-l> because I want both of them turned into smouldering craters equally.
<jrwren> snap-l: *gasp* i'm on my second cup of a very strong french press
<jrwren> snap-l: can I help get you some coffee?
<snap-l> jrwren: Nope, I we managed to sort it out
<snap-l> went to National Coney for lunch and Meijer for groceries
<jrwren> i order my coffee from Colorado, so if there is none, I weep.
<snap-l> Oh brilliant. :)
<snap-l> AT&T is buying T-Mobile. :)
<ngonzal> hopefully we can get some more 3g in michigan
<snap-l> http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/03/20/att-to-buy-t-mobile-usa-for-39-billion/
<snap-l> Don't bet on it
<ngonzal> haha
<ngonzal> they've been promising me 3G in kalamazoo for over 3 yrs now
<snap-l> must remember to ask Jorge re: his new AT&T service.
<snap-l> Kalamazoo? Sheesh, does anyone live there? :)
<ngonzal> haha
<ngonzal> more people than Holland MI, and they have 3G
<snap-l> I thought we sold that to the Canadians for a 24 pack of Molson and a box of Tim Bits
<ngonzal> lol
<ngonzal> it's mostly drunk college students now
<jrwren> they don't have 3G in kzoo???
<jrwren> or only T-mobile doesn't?
<jrwren> I'd think ATT does. college students = iphones
<ngonzal> ATT doesnt
<ngonzal> im sure everyone else does, sprint has 4g here
<ngonzal> lots of iphones here..on EDGE
<jrwren> wow
<jcastro> Man
<jcastro> I can't believe tmo's going away
<jrwren> now ATT just has to buy sprint/nextel and it will be a two party system and america can take sides.
<jrwren> D & R
<jrwren> Mac & PC
<jrwren> Cable and Sat
<jrwren> Japanese or Domestic Cars.
<jjesse> we can be a red state and blue state?  verizon/att
<jcastro> jrwren: hahaha, I was just telling jill "2 carriers sucks"
<jcastro> because I totally forgot about sprint
<jcastro> hah
<snap-l> Does anyone take Sprint seriously that isn't hell-bent on buying a Palm?
<snap-l> They've always struck me as the "me too" carrier.
<jrwren> sprint actually bought nextel years ago.
<jrwren> I dunno how they managed to ruin that.
<jrwren> nextel had some impressive tech.
<snap-l> jrwren: Had
<snap-l> That's the operative word
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> sprint ruined it.
<jrwren> and they ruined the winston cup
<snap-l> Well, that and they had some spectacularly awful customer service
<snap-l> Hey, they still have Daytona
<snap-l> if they can ruin NASCAR as well, I'll be a happy man
<jjesse> how did sprint ruin nascar?
<snap-l> jjesse: Was a hope, not a statement. ;)
<jjesse> i think nascar itself has ruined things
<jjesse> got too far away from its roots
<snap-l> Champagne instead of PBR?
<jjesse> not letting the drivers bump and crash
<jjesse> tried to make it too soft
<jjesse> so more people owuld watch
<snap-l> Yeah, like hockey
<jjesse> or the nfl
<snap-l> or basketball
<snap-l> I don't think they ever call travelling anymore
<snap-l> and double-dribble is just an old video game
<jjesse> hahaha correct
<snap-l> I remember getting called for travelling so many times in jr high
<snap-l> I'm like "Jesus, I can't even get the damn ball going before taking a step"
<jrwren> because the winston cup was so much better than nextel cup or sprint/nextel cup or sprint cup.
<jrwren> smoking > cell phones
<jjesse> yeah it was but stupid political correctness ;)
<jrwren> at least busch league is still busch league
<jjesse> nope thats nationwide
<snap-l> That's because everyone LOVES political correctness. ;)
<nixternal> nascar sucks!
<jrwren> nascar sucks.
<Dekk-lappy> why?
<Dekk-lappy> btw who won at bristol?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-12
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> howdy
<rick_h_> we all having fun yet?
<snap-l> Totally
<snap-l> trying to get tired. :)
<greg-g> rick_h_: np (re Chris intro) :)
<snap-l> ugh
<jrwren> morn
<snap-l> Have I mentioned lately that I hate DST?
<snap-l> because if not, let me be perfectly clear: I HATE DST!
<snap-l> Couldn't get to sleep last night, and on top of it, I think there's some DST-related bug that caused the SB Radio to reboot overnight
<snap-l> every single hour
<Scott_firebeta> When told the reason for daylight saving time, the Old Indian said, .Only the Government would believe that you could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the bottom, and have a longer blanket..
<snap-l> Scott_firebeta: Too true
<snap-l> Only a politician can steal an hour and call it a savings. :)
<jrwren> snap-l: i read some about thermodynamics to help me sleep :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Maybe I should try that next time. ;)
<jrwren> but then i found the termodynamics interesting and wanted to keep reading
<snap-l> Someone tried to log into my machine as hitler
<jrwren> haha, "someone"
<snap-l> MUG site was updated with tomorrow's events
<snap-l> including squeezebox, voting, and command of the moment.
<snap-l> God, almost pulled the trigger to buy a copy of an ebook that I already have.
<snap-l> <- idiot
<brousch> try reading them instead of just buying them
<snap-l> brousch: Pffft
<brousch> my ubuntu hat already snagged one person at a random event
<snap-l> brousch: Awesome!
<jrwren> yar! try reading them instead of just buying them.
<jrwren> !!!
<brousch> is it talk like a pirate day again?
<snap-l> I cant get it to work no matter how many times i email it!
<snap-l> I <3 B&N Nook app reviews
<snap-l> Boring! The graphics are very pixelie and the game is slow. I
<snap-l> (Texas Holdem Poker)
<brousch> snap-l: read your books instead of inane reviews of crap ;)
<snap-l>  /ignore brousch
<brousch> ah, now i have free reign!
<brousch> no one to CoC slap me!
 * snap-l slaps brousch just out of principal
<snap-l> Are we having fun yet?
<rick_h_> yep! sprint all the things!!!!!
<snap-l> Does anyone think these sound masculine when mixed together? Blend of patchouli, ginger, watermelon, frozen musk, water mint, amber, & nutmeg
<snap-l> rick_h_: sprinting, eh?
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, party time
<rick_h_> or at least time to hack, tried to do the talks sans-laptop and take paper notes, so now I get to write more codes yay
<brousch> xubuntu lives on the nook color http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/2012-03-12%2014.18.19.png
<brousch> barely. looks like it locked up already
<_stink_> hehe
<brousch> that's xubuntu 12.04
<brousch> but it had some errors installing python-twisted so it might not have totally finished
<snap-l> brousch: That's insane
<brousch> yeah, slow too
<brousch> i can see why canonical wants you to have dual core
<snap-l> Yeah, and I'm sure it's murder on the battery.
<brousch> i used the big-ass file download version to get that far
<brousch> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zpwebsites.ubuntuinstall
<jrwren> any vim folks use autochdir and tags?
<jrwren> how can i tell vim to search up to root for tag files and merge those?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yes
<rick_h_> jrwren: set tags=tags;/         " search for tags file in parent directories
<jrwren> rick_h_: thanks.
<rick_h_> np
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-13
<jrwren> snap-l: you listen to Laibach?
<snap-l> A litt
<snap-l> le
<snap-l> I have Thus Spake John Paul II
<snap-l> which is technically 300,000VK, but... ;)
<jrwren> check out Volk
<jrwren> soooo sweet
<jrwren> its their interpretations of national anthems of various nations.
<snap-l> Will check it out
<snap-l> I love the concept of Laibach
<snap-l> I had one album, though, that I couldn't get into
<snap-l> trying to remember which one it was
<snap-l> Gah, can't find it
<jrwren> snap-l: me too. the albums are hit and miss with me.
<jrwren> opus dei is great, but other I've heard i just can't stand.
<jrwren> then i hear jesus christ superstar (laibach version) and its great.
<jrwren> then i hear something else, and I can't stand it :)
<jrwren> now I've heard Volk :)
<rick_h_> I'm getting htat feeling that I'm starting to abuse make...must find another way...
<rick_h_> oh wtf...it works
<jrwren> i'm abusing virtualenv.
<jrwren> putting each app in its own venv.
<jrwren> running prod out of each little venv
<jrwren> <3 it so much
<rick_h_> yea, that's what I do
<rick_h_> that's why there's very little in my system python
<snap-l> jrwren: In other words, you're doing it right. :)
<brousch> i discovered a package called 'kubuntu-low-fat-settings' and am giving it a try
<jrwren> do you run on old shit hardware or someething ?
<jrwren> how old and what specs?
<jrwren> and what are you using it for?
<brousch> dell latitude d630. 2GHZ dual core with 4GB
<brousch> firefox, chrome, pidgin, vim, eclipse (android)
<jrwren> that isn't even old.
<jrwren> i mean, yes, it is.
<brousch> i know, so it sucks when i start swapping
<brousch> 4GB should be enough for anyone!
<jrwren> but 4GB and you swap?
<jrwren> oh... eclipse.
<jrwren> get a new laptop.
<brousch> yeah, chrome is mostly the culprit
<jrwren> o_O
<brousch> i rarely use eclipse
<jrwren> my chrome barele gets above 200MB used
<jrwren> how many tabs do you leave open?
<brousch> always at least 4: gmail, gcal, g+, hootsuite
<jrwren> i ask all this because my brand new laptop from last week only has 4GB ram. I actually downgraded on RAM after 2.5yrs with an 8GB notebook
<brousch> then up to 20 during the day
<jrwren> and how high does its memory usage get?
<brousch> well i did not have this ram problem with unity, gnome shell, or xfce
<jrwren> is it an old less efficient chrome?
<brousch> it is current chrome
<jrwren> b.s. a different shell is not going to make chrome use more memory.
<jrwren> all the desktop shells should only use a few MB
<jrwren> what shell are you running that takes more than a few MB?
<brousch> when i booted up with no programs open it was using about 590MB
<brousch> well, dropbox was syncing
<jrwren> ah, dropbox can be a pig can't it?  like 128MB ?
<jrwren> i dunno... i'd just judiciously watch top and stop running anything that eats my memory.
<brousch> looking at top, FF is using 6%, and there are 12 instances of chrome using a collective 20%
<brousch> with 8 chrome tabs open
<brousch> chrome:memory says it's using almost 800MB
<brousch> i think it's because i don't use any actual qt programs. everything is gtk running on kde
<jrwren> poor brousch
<brousch> eh?
<jrwren> 800MB chrome :(
<jrwren> aurora 253MB, chrome 38MB   <-- my browser usage right now.
<brousch> for all of chrome?
<brousch> is that from top or chrome://memory ?
<jrwren> top
<jrwren> hint: i have no chrome windows open :)
<brousch> :P
<jrwren> good call though... chrome://memory says 106/293/49
<jrwren> seen chrome://net-internals/ ?
<brousch> gmail is my big hog. over 200MB just for that tab
<brousch> geez
<jrwren> another reason i don't use gmail :)
<jrwren> my mail app pointed to gmail and 2 imap accounts is 128MB
<brousch> i would have to rethink my whole workspace usage
<brousch> but it might be worth it
<snap-l> Hello there.
<snap-l> Squeezebox presentation tonight. :)
<snap-l> Be there, get stuff.
<brousch> can i get details on entering the sweepstakes without being present
<snap-l> brousch: I'll send you something in the mail
<brousch> excellent
 * brousch somehow suspects he's going to win a box of 1000 more ubuntu 11.04 CDs
<snap-l> brousch: Nah, coupon code for Logitech products.
<snap-l> I'll send one when I get home.
<jrwren> i want vimpyflakes for js now... jslint with vim or something
<brousch> so far this kubuntu-low-fat-settings is working out well
<jrwren> what does it do?
<brousch> Turns off compositing by default; Reduces the number of Krunner plugins loaded by default; Reduce the amount of effects used in the window decoration; Disables the automatic loading of various system modules â such as the free space notifier, Nepomuk services, and others
<snap-l> Brings up LXDE, says "Screw you"
<brousch> actually that's what i'm trying next on the NC
<snap-l> Yeah, that should work
<brousch> it sounds like wordpress has another rash of malware infestations
<_stink_> there's a cream for that.
<brousch> it's called "python"
<_stink_> :P
<brousch> snap-l: have you tried lxde?
<snap-l> Not personally, no
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> gotta love sprints, they start later and later each day lol
<jrwren> oh?
<jrwren> you do daily sprints?o_O ?
<rick_h_> yea, after pycon is 4 days of sprints provided by the conf
<rick_h_> entering day 2...pretty empty so far today
<jrwren> oh, different kind of sprints then :)
<jrwren> not scrum sprints
<rick_h_> yea no, just coding sprints
<jrwren> cool
<jrwren> what ya hacking on?
<jcastro> he's charming bookie
<jcastro> right? RIGHT?
<rick_h_> something like that
<jrwren> sweet
<snap-l> This angers me: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/03/stop-innovating-please-kaleidescape-loses-dvd-ripping-case.ars
<jrwren> their fault for entering into dvd licensing agreement at all.
<jrwren> i'll continue to just download movies. :)
<jrwren> its not stealing, its not piracy :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, shame on them to try and play above-board.
<snap-l> Meanwhile someone gets slapped because content companies managed to put CSS on DVDs
<jrwren> huh?
<jrwren> they entered an agreement, they broke it. seems simple to me.
<snap-l> Yeah, and if DVDs weren't encrypted, this would be a non-issue.
<snap-l> "Imagine a world where Apple wasn't allowed to build the iPod because Sony wanted a 'level playing field' for the Walkman"
<brousch> oooooh, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/2012-03-13%2013.07.12.png
<snap-l> Fire up GIMP! :)
<brousch> installing firefox
<brousch> yeah, gimp should be fiun to use on a touch screen
<brousch> this seems more stable than the others i tried
<snap-l> I won't believe it's yours until I see Firefox with a copy of today's Grand Rapids Press, and a GIMP window open with the words "Alea iacta est" enscribed in Liberation Mono.
<snap-l> Only then will I believe.
<brousch> gr press uses mlive now
<snap-l> That's fine too. :)
<snap-l> http://www.mlive.com/grpress/
<brousch> definitely not the fastest device
<brousch> took at least 30s to start FF
<snap-l> brousch: Try running LXDE on a P2. I'm sure it's comparable.
<brousch> you would choose the super-bloated and annoying mlive, wouldn't you
<brousch> snap-l: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/2012-03-13%2014.02.18.png
<brousch> gimp is definitely not fun on a touchscreen
<brousch> at least not on a small one
<brousch> oh, and i didn't have liberation mono installed so i went with dejau sans bold
<_stink_> that's awesome.
<brousch> maybe i can give it some touchscreen love with theme changes. make buttons bigger
<rick_h_> what? install liberation mono!
<brousch> rick_h_: it took 30mins just to install gimp!
<rick_h_> dude, sudo apt-get install liberation-ttf
<rick_h_> sorry, ttf-liberation
<rick_h_> must have fonts
<snap-l> brousch: Doesn't count. :)
<snap-l> Actually, I was half-joking, but damn that is awesome. :)
<snap-l> Just ordered some public-domain music. :)
<snap-l> http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.110601 <- can't order it directly from Naxos, though, because of screwball copyright
<brousch> and now it's out of memory
<snap-l> greg-g: tricky (c) question for you if you have a moment
<snap-l> if someone takes a piece of music that has entered the public domain, and cleans it up a tad, can they claim copyright on the cleaned up version?
<snap-l> n/m, found my answer: http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:No_Sweat_of_the_Brow_Copyright
<snap-l> interesting
<snap-l> http://www.naxos.com/SharedFiles/pdf/rear/8.110601r.pdf#
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> one sec
<greg-g> snap-l: so, people "claim" copyright on that shit all the time, but would it stand up in court? Probably not
<rick_h_> brousch: http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid_cookbook/en/latest/deployment/heroku.html
<brousch> heh, they're pushing cherrypy/
<rick_h_> yea, but you can swap that with gunicorn
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, that's what I thought.
<brousch> my conclusion: it works, but it's too slow to be really useful
<_stink_> in general, or using the gimp?
<brousch> in general
<brousch> everything GUI is slow
<brousch> might be useful for command line stuff
<brousch> you have all of the linux command line programs
<brousch> including vim
<snap-l> brousch: Wonder if it's using a non-optimized driver?
<jrwren> on what are you running?
<jrwren> your d630?
<brousch> jrwren: nook color
<brousch> snap-l: the graphics are fine. everything seems to peg the CPU
<snap-l> brousch: Right, because it's not able to take advantage of hardware optimization
<brousch> also i hit the ram limit if i run more than 2 things
<snap-l> so in essence it's having to dump that work on the CPU
<brousch> ah, maybe
<snap-l> But the real question is can it play Doom?
<brousch> doom hasn't been ported to android yet?
<snap-l> https://github.com/halgari/clojure-py
<snap-l> I think my head just exploded.
<jrwren> beautiful isn't it?
<snap-l> It's buggy, though
<snap-l> Just running (def x 6) \n (def y 36) caused it to puke
<jrwren> ouch
<Blazeix> I bet static typing would have caught that error
<snap-l> Blazeix: Har har
<brousch> i got openbox and firefox running from the chroot using the android xserver
<brousch> can't click anything though
<snap-l> brousch: Your tenacity amazes me
<brousch> that was easy
<brousch> kill vnc in the chroot; export DISPLAY=localhost:0; start android xserver; openbox&; firefox
<jrwren> ocaml-py would be impressive :p
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-14
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> says you
<brousch> hm, found a native android python2.7
<brousch> botbrew
<brousch> like homebrew for android
<brousch> d00d, it works
<snap-l> nice!
<brousch> if it can run pip i may need a tissue
<brousch> omg pip is installing virtualenv
<brousch> hm, ok, so the "source" command doesn't seem to exist. might have to do without virtualenv
<brousch> but, pip works with root permissions
<brousch> i pip installed django, and it runs
<jrwren> what shell?
<jrwren> source is a shell builtin
<jrwren> try the . alias.
<jrwren> . {venv}/bin/activate
<brousch> actually i wonder if it's a problem with the fat32 file system
<brousch> i think the symlinks are failing
<jrwren> fat32 doesn't have symlinks.
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, not sure how Linux handles links on fat32
<snap-l> my gut feeling is "it doesn't"
<brousch> i think the internal file system is something else. i'll see if it works there
<brousch> different error there
<brousch> anyways, pip works fine
<brousch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/virtualenv/+bug/442780
<rick_h_> brousch: just skip the source activate and just hit the things in bin/ itself
<rick_h_> that's what I do with my Makefile stuff in bookie now and I rarely need to activate the venv any more
<jrwren> but then your makefile is aware of your venv?  does that scale to other people on your team?
<rick_h_> jrwren: well, when you run make install, it sets up the venv in the project dir
<rick_h_> so from there on it just references commands in bin/*
<rick_h_> heh, my team is me for now, I'll find out I guess if I can get other people involved in bookie
<jrwren> oh cool.
<brousch> i get permission denied when trying to create a virtualenv. apparently virtualenv links to the system python and then runs it. it is failing at the run
<rick_h_> yea
<brousch> yeah, won't let me symlink
<brousch> hehe, i pinged ian bicking on google+. this should be fun
<snap-l> btw: Excel is a crackwhore
<snap-l> That is all
<rick_h_> hah!
<brousch> is that a good thing or a bad thing these days? isn't crack a compliment now?
<snap-l> brousch: If you can come up with a complimentary reference for crack whore, please be my guest. ;)
<greg-g> aside from the obvious?
<brousch> rick_h_: did you see my earlier comments about BotBrew? it lets you have real Vim on your android
<rick_h_> brousch: ah, saw the link but didn't see the vim stuff
<brousch> one of the many things available
<Scott_firebeta> can you run irssi?
<brousch> Scott_firebeta: i don't see it, but you can compile your own packages too
<brousch> https://github.com/jyio/botbrew#readme
<_stink_> greg-g: +1
<brousch> hm, no comments or answers on my SO question after 2 hours
<greg-g> _stink_: :)
<snap-l> If you're all looking for something to get me for Christmas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6QS-3w0ZQw
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KQAtN4XF8o <- This will do as well
<brousch> ah ha! the sdcard is mounted with noexec!
<brousch> now i get a different error, but it's progress
<snap-l> Hello from the back room at CHC
<rick_h> woot!
<rick_h> howdy CHC folks
<rick_h> sorry to be missing
<jcastro> too busy drinking
<rick_h> woot!
<rick_h> jcastro: that was funny with the hangout, I'm like "wtf"
<jcastro> rick_h, ok, windows-m
<jcastro> have her try that
<jcastro> super-m
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, sent her the keys
<jcastro> you know what I mean, then windows key
<jcastro> oh ok, she sorted it then?\
<rick_h> guess so, sent her the keys and she asked wtf 'meta/windows' was and once I told her windows key I havne't heard back
<jcastro> so haven't heard back as in she fixed it?
<jcastro> or haven't heard back as in we're in trouble?
<rick_h> haven't heard back in hopefully she fixed it else I'll be fixing it tomorrow :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-15
<snap-l> rick_h: WHo is having trouble with a Windows key?
<rick_h> snap-l: just wife was confused what 'meta/windows' was
<snap-l> Ah
<jcastro> yeah so you do a git clone
<jcastro> but you didn't install git
<jcastro> also you try to run something called install_subway
<jcastro> which doesn't appear to exist
<jrwren> o_O
<jrwren> install_subway?
<snap-l> alternatively, you can apt-get install potbelly
<_stink_> looks like most quiznos around here have been apt-get removed
<rick_h> doh!
<snap-l> ugh
<snap-l> Good morning
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning snap-l
<snap-l> How goes the day?
<mydogsnameisrudy> looks like a good day coming
<snap-l> Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends
<snap-l> We're so glad you could attend, come inside, come inside
<snap-l> There behind a glass stands a real blade of grass
<snap-l> Be careful as you pass,.move along, move along
<snap-l> Come inside, the show's about to start
<snap-l> Guaranteed to blow your head apart
<snap-l> Rest assured you'll get your money's worth
<snap-l> Greatest show in Heaven, Hell or Earth
<snap-l> ~Emerson Lake And Palmer
<brousch> botbrew has python2.7, vim, and git. pip is easy to install. if i can get virtualenv working i could develop on my tablet
<jrwren> i need python help.
<jrwren> i have inherited a codebase.
<jrwren> Im not happy with some things in it.
<jrwren> so... first nit pick.
<jrwren> there is  alot of pickle.load(open(filename)) and pickle.dump(something,open(filename))
<jrwren> in it.
<jrwren> shouldn't those open file handles be closed?
<snap-l> jrwren: WEll, they'll be closed on garbage collection
<jrwren> ok, so single functions with pickle.load(open(file)) and later pickle.dump(open(file))
<jrwren> and... WHAT?!?!
<jrwren> since when does any garbage collector collect file handles???
<jrwren> GC's collect memory, not filehandles.
<jrwren> at least in java and .net
<snap-l> jrwren: On exit they will be closed
<jrwren> is python's filehandle not as low level ?
<jrwren> right... on exit.
<jrwren> which is NEVER in the case of a django app :)
<snap-l> but I believe the pickle code will do the open / close
<snap-l> it's not working on a file handle
<jrwren> snap-l: you are not the first to mention t his, but can you please find me documentation on this?
<snap-l> http://docs.python.org/library/pickle.html
<jrwren> no shit.
<jrwren> no mention of is there.
<jrwren> i can google too :p
<snap-l> jrwren: Cranky cranky
<jrwren> indeed.
<jrwren> http://stackoverflow.com/a/575383/16998
<snap-l> Ah, you have better google fu than I
<snap-l> jrwren: Does that answer your question, though?
<jrwren> yes.
<brousch> jrwren: wow, so they just tossed you right in django eh?
<jrwren> there are no more referencs to that file handle, so it is released immediately
<jrwren> VERY foreign coming from .net and java
<jrwren> brousch: yup. django is damned simple
<jrwren> i wonder if someday I'll make rick_h the uber pythonista proud of my python skirra.
<jrwren> probably not
<brousch> not by using django ;)
<brousch> jrwren: i know you just got a new job, but i think you would really fit in here http://detroit.atomicobject.com/
<brousch> a lot of ruby, .net, and java
<jrwren> django is not going to hold someone back from being awesome at python.
<jrwren> brousch: yeah, atomic object is awesome.
<jrwren> but i don't want to commute that
<jrwren> or move.
<jrwren> and they wouldn't pay me enough :p
<brousch> i honestly don't know what they pay
<snap-l> jrwren: but other than that, how does it sound?
<snap-l> Oh noes! I just got a note to my home account! Apparently my mailbox administrator says I'm over my quota!
<snap-l> Your mailbox has exceeded one or more size limits set by the administrator.
<snap-l> You can not send or receive new mail until size of your mail box is reduced.
<snap-l> For more space, Please click the link below and fill in the details of correct account.
<snap-l> Maybe I should just contact my mail administrator. Hello, self? Yeah, apparently I'm over some quota.
<brousch> snap-l: oh crap, i just forwarded an opportunity to make a million dollars to you. i hope it doesn't bounce
<snap-l> brousch: Not to worry; I run my own mail server. :)
<snap-l> It'll get here just fine, my little nigerian prince. :)
<jcastro> snap-l, he doesn't have better google-fu
<jcastro> he's just smart enough to always add a site:stackoverflow.com to any programming question
<jcastro> a fine plan
<snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, that is a plan
<jcastro> always through google, the built in search is kind of meh
<jcastro> I wish they would just use google or something as their built in search
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, but these days the with context manager is the way to go
<rick_h> jrwren: and I'm always proud of good python devs, hell awesome that you're doing python. You'll pass by me soon
<rick_h> ughhh, barely alive today
<rick_h> I have a feeling I'm in for a rough day
<Blazeix> how many hours of sleep have you averaged this week?
<Blazeix> judging by your tweets, 2 hours a night
<rick_h> hah, well started out 'ugh, tired at 8pm...bed at 10pm'
<rick_h> ended up 'ooh, tired at 3am, bed around 4:30am'
<snap-l> rick_h: so I should call you tomorrow morning at 6:30? :)
<jrwren> rick_h: yeah, context manager looks cool... maybe a bit too VB like :p :)
<snap-l> http://ia700300.us.archive.org/14/items/AlJolson/AlJolson-YouAintHeardNothingYet.mp3
<greg-g> w00t! my project was mentioned, positively, in the WSJ! http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2012/03/14/what-googles-search-changes-might-mean-for-you/
<greg-g> search for LRMI
<_stink_> sweet!
<snap-l> greg-g: Very cool
<greg-g> snap-l: that bandcamp album you linked to yesterday was good (solid drums/instrumentals + no vocals)... got any more recommendations my dear music recommendation AI?
<snap-l> Spiralmountain
<snap-l> http://spiralmountain.bandcamp.com/
<snap-l> Their self-titled album is what I'm thinking of, greg-g
<greg-g> thank you, you good sir
<snap-l> http://encircle.bandcamp.com/album/watch-the-sky-fall
<greg-g> lemme just finish watching this, because he is hilarious http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WwfYrW4oJo&feature=related
<snap-l> http://returningwehearthelarks.bandcamp.com/
<greg-g> alright, back to XML/RDF hacking :) thanks snap-l :)
<snap-l> np. :)
<greg-g> spiral mountain is starting out great
<snap-l> Yeah, it's very similar
<jrwren> i think i found a bug in pep3110
<jrwren> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3110/#semantic-changes it is deleting None, which makes no sense.
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/fossworldproblems/comments/qxvxk/wrote_university_paper_in_latex_esubmission_only/
<snap-l> I'm totally doing this the next time someone wants a doc formatted file
<greg-g> I just started to download the Encircle album you linked to snap-l, and I said, outloud to my dismay, "I'm a FLAC-tard"
<snap-l> Yep, I loves me some flac
<snap-l> greg-g: Want a Squeezebox coupon to buy some flac-capable streaming hardware? :)
<brousch> i use mp3. does that make me FLACid?
<snap-l> Nah, you're just lossy
<greg-g> I can always count on brousch to one up my jokes.
<greg-g> snap-l: does this coupon cost you anything?
<snap-l> greg-g: Not at all.
<snap-l> I'll send you a scan when I get home
<greg-g> coolio
<greg-g> thanks, may or may not, but options are awesome, and something like this would be nice
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm really digging my Squeezeboxen.
<jrwren> ++
<jrwren> i finally used squeezebox syncronization. totally sweet.
<jrwren> lol... or pep3110 is fine and I need to learn python :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Isn't it awesome?
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, I think that pep is OK, but I couldn't vocalize what was right about it
<snap-l> I <3 the public domain and old recordings
<snap-l> listening to Rachmaninov's piano concertos played by Sergei Rachmaninov himself
<snap-l> Naxos did a hell of a job remastering these recordings
<snap-l> I wish there were more things in the PD
<greg-g> "just wait"? ohrite
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I love that the 1920s is in the PD, but the 1930s is somewhat in the PD
<snap-l> and the 1940s, 50s, and 60s start tapering off
<snap-l> modtly because of fuck ups and non-renewals
<snap-l> But, since we're heading back to Victorian times in prudishness, maybe the PD will welcome us with open arms
<snap-l> with it's old shit and fuck-ups. :)
 * greg-g can't wait until he is an old shit and fuck up
<greg-g> HALF WAY THERE!
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> jrwren: Did you get flattened? http://blogs.woodtv.com/2012/03/15/confirmed-tornado-near-dexter-near-ann-arbor/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-16
<brousch> wow, crazy stuff http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/local/tornado-destroys-homes-in-dexter-michigan-other-areas-hit-by-severe-weather-20120315-DK
<jrwren> brousch: it was very close
<jrwren> snap-l: the N = None; del N # confused me coming from a java/.net background
<jrwren> i just wait for patent expiration... just a few more years for the mp3 patents.
<brousch> i'm sure they will be extended like copyrights
<jrwren> no
<jrwren> patents don't have that history.
<jrwren> i had a celebration when teh RSA patent expired.
<jcastro> JAY WREN
<jcastro> hi
<jrwren> hi jcastro
<jrwren> how are you?
<jrwren> i miss you, when are you moving back to MI?
<jrwren> hey, #ubuntu-us-mi am I the only one who doesn't care at all about ubuntu achievements?
<greg-g> shhhhh!
<jcastro> jrwren, I'm visiting on memorial day
<jrwren> YAY!
<snap-l> jrwren: I think achievements are pretty stupid
<snap-l> which is why I'm not on 4square
<snap-l> but, I acknowledge that some people need that pavlovian dog acknowledgement in order to excel
<snap-l> and yes, I'm happy that Patents expire, unlike copyrights which retire like Bret Farve or Ozzy Osbourne.
<snap-l> Frankly, I don't mind initial publish date + X years (where X < 50)
<snap-l> with additional (c) extension for 10 years if you publish a new edition of the work
<snap-l> at least it would keep the things that still have legs (like the Beatles and Steam Boat Willie) going, and give added incentive to keep shit in print
<jrwren> where X < 7
<jrwren> fuk beatles and steam boat willy, they should be public
<snap-l> and let things that may not have monetary value go PD gracefully.
<jrwren> its not about monetary value, its about freedom
<snap-l> jrwren: I know
<jrwren> or rather, the problem is that it IS about monetary value instead of freedom
<snap-l> which is why I get extremely irritated when the Edgar Rice Burroughs estate starts sabre-ratling whenever someone publishes something against John Carter of Mars
<snap-l> It's PD. Get over it.
<snap-l> or the Howard estate re: Conan
<rick_h> snap-l: no calling 6am
<rick_h> going to be a rough night of transition me thinks
<rick_h> woot, new keyboard...let the awkward adjustment phase begin
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> ugh
<mydogsnameisrudy> rick_h:  wrong side of the bed , go back to bed and getup on the other side
<snap-l> rick_h: Good morning
<snap-l> and good morning, everyone else.
<rick_h> man, it's going to be a long day
<snap-l> rick_h: I can imagine
<brousch> rick_h: you back in the M I?
<rick_h> yep
<rick_h> got in last night so starting to catch u\
<rick_h> losing three hours coming back sucks
<brousch> maybe 4 hours
<brousch> do they do daylight savings in CA?
<snap-l> Only AZ and Hawaii neglect to celebrate DST
<brousch> some parts of IN
<brousch> they go county-by-county there
<snap-l> It's all restupid
<rick_h> brousch: yea, lost my hour there as well
<brousch> hey apple-lovers http://aroberge.blogspot.com/2012/03/python-for-ios-first-look.html
<rick_h> I've seen  enough apple to last me a while
<rick_h> forgive my typing as I get keyboard adjusted
<snap-l> rick_h: but for $3 you can play with a limited Python on an iOS device?
<snap-l> isn't that worth it for you? :)
<brousch> well it's better than having no python ;)
<snap-l> Tendulkar reaches cricket milestone
<snap-l> Indian cricketer Sachin Tendulkar becomes first man to score 100 international centuries.
<snap-l> I will never, ever understand Cricket.
<brousch> hm, time to dive into throwing exceptions. i don't know if i've ever done that before
<rick_h> from python?
<brousch> yeah
<rick_h> raise Exception('message')
<snap-l> ^^
<rick_h> or subclass Exception
<brousch> shouldn't there be a different exception for different errors?
<rick_h> or the another Exception like ValueError, etc
<rick_h> right, so you can create subclasses to throw for the 'type' of error
<brousch> ok
<rick_h> with a message specific to the exception
<brousch> last time i did this was in java
<brousch> i am kind of excited because i think if i change this program to use exceptions i can also make it testable
<rick_h> yay!
<brousch> or more easily testable
<brousch> right now it prints errors and exits, but those should really be logs and exceptions
<rick_h> right
<brousch> so i've got that going and read python on android. fun days ahead
<brousch> s/read/real/
<rick_h> wheeeee
<rick_h> python to rule them all
<brousch> you're not all pyed out yet?
<rick_h> no, I'm invigorated to start a python group out here
<rick_h> I need to find some place to host meetings
<snap-l> ho boy.
<brousch> snap-l's house!
<rick_h> my goal is to get a PSF sponsored sprint before the year is out
<brousch> bookie sprint?
<rick_h> no, needs to be more base python. Thinking a sprint to practice porting some lib to py3
<rick_h> maybe something bookie uses :)
<brousch> that would be cool
<jrwren> brousch: IN no longer goes county by county. the state as a whole joined EST/EDT like the rest of us, a few yrs ago.
<jrwren> oh shit... i'm wrong on that.
<jrwren> my family in IN lied to me!
<jrwren> ah, 2006, entire state began observing DST
<jrwren> but zone is still county by county.
<jrwren> *sigh*
<brousch> heh
<greg-g> give me more movies like: Independence Day, Transformers, Battleship
<greg-g> ie: aliens coming to destroy humans but thank the effing lord we spend more money on the US Military than we should because it actually came in use for once
<rick_h> oh interesting
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> I'm coming up empty, but I'm not good at these kinds of problems
<greg-g> yeah, me neither :)
<greg-g> I just saw the trailer for Battleship and... wow
<rick_h> heh, haven't seen it yet
<rick_h> brousch: opencv love http://pyvideo.org/video/674/militarizing-your-backyard-with-python-computer
<brousch> ahahah
<brousch> i will set it up to squirt those damn kids on my lawn
<brousch> make george wear a red hat so he is exempt
<snap-l> greg-g: Alien military movies?
<snap-l> What about Starship Troopers?
<snap-l> (note: have not seen Starship Troopers)
<snap-l> MOst of the recent alien movies have been more of the "our military is useless against these things"
<brousch> the only good thing in starship troopers is denise richards
<snap-l> greg-g: Work in a Mars Attacks reference. :)
<snap-l> Fuck, they're planning a Cloverfield 2 and District 10
<rick_h> I actually liked district 9
<rick_h> and yea, it was setup for a follow up
<snap-l> I want to seeit but haven't convinced JoDee
<rick_h> cloverfield I can do without
<snap-l> rick_h: Seriously? Hmm.
<snap-l> Thought once the hook was known it didn't need a follow-up
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, it's very different. I went and saw it by myself
<snap-l> Like Blair Witch Project.
<snap-l> Should never have been given a sequel. Ever.
<rick_h> I never saw that, but that seemed stupid. This was done kind of cool like discovery channel like
<snap-l> rick_h: Didn't see the first one, but seriously, it's like a haunted house
<rick_h> yea, not interested
<snap-l> once you know the hook of the haunted house, it's not scary anymore.
<snap-l> really wish Hollywood would leave well enough alone.
<rick_h> hah, this squirrel cannon is arduino powered
<snap-l> LIke Tron Legacy
<rick_h> I got the soundtrack out of it, so happy me
<snap-l> Yeah, the soundtrack was the best part.
<brousch> i must be the only person who doesn't care for it
<rick_h> the tron soundtrack?!
<brousch> yeah
<snap-l> WHich I was surprised since Wendy Carlos' Tron Soundtrack is one of my favorites.
<brousch> boring and kind of annoying
<snap-l> brousch: What's your general feeling on electronic music?
<brousch> i like some of it
<snap-l> Also, the CD sounds a LOT better than the MP3s
<brousch> it looks i kept 2 tracks in my playlist: adiago for tron and end of line
<rick_h> soundtracks are meant to be listened to in whole
 * rick_h has a ton of those in his queue...best coding music
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, I initially thought it was pretty boring as well
<brousch> i did listen to it in whole, and picked out those 2 as not annoying :P
<snap-l> but near the end is when it won me over.
<rick_h> ugh, brousch is broken. Send him in for repair
<snap-l> Meh, different strokes.
<brousch> Tools still sucks
<rick_h> Tool!
<rick_h> *sigh* /me thinks he's hopelessly broken
<snap-l> brousch: Redeem yourself: http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/saros-labyrinth/
<brousch> if i remember right, the tron soundtrack had too much high pitch sound for me
<snap-l> Are you referring to Daft Punk's, or Wendy Carlos' soundtrack?
<brousch> daft punk
<rick_h> yea, we're talking tron 2 right?
<snap-l> I didn't get high pitched at all
<brousch> i don't think i've heard the tron 1
<rick_h> yea, I mean I'd not classify it as high pitched
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzRWXn5KNFI
<brousch> i may be remembering wrong
<brousch> maybe it was just boring
<snap-l> Yeah, which makes it pretty good background music.
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h> that, star trek, and inception are my big rotation these days
<snap-l> That Saros album is pretty awesome, IMHO
<snap-l> If anyone wants a copy, LMK
<rick_h> http://blog.mitechie.com/2012/03/16/pycon-2012-what-a-ride/ pycon retro
<snap-l> "Last year I hardly new anyone." <- knew. :)
<snap-l> rick_h: ^^
<rick_h> bah
<rick_h> ty much
<snap-l> np
<rick_h> and bookie stuff http://blog.mitechie.com/2012/03/16/bookie-pycon-2012-sprint-report/
<rick_h> oops, guess that should be in #bookie
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-17
<brousch> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/03/17/0142219/websites-can-detect-what-chrome-extensions-youve-installed
<snap-l> I'm so glad we chose Javascript for our web language. :)
<snap-l> I was worried when we decided to move from PHP to other languages that we'd make the web more secure. ;)
<rick_h> psh, what security issue is it you've run into?
<snap-l> See scrollback from brousch
<rick_h> this isn't anything JS related, just how chrome does extensions
<jrwren> i'm learning things about python that i'd never thought about before.
<jrwren> like from module import name <-- what that ACTUALLY does.
<jrwren> its interesting
<jrwren> very C like, very java/c# unlike
<jrwren> gonna be hard to get a buffer overflow in js :)
<rick_h> jrwren: heh, import magic!
<snap-l> rick_h: Yes but the extensions are written in JS, correct?
<rick_h> snap-l: right, js and html, but he's reading your manifest.json file, which is required for the extension. So chrome should just prevent access to that file to the running website
<snap-l> True, this is a problem with how Chrome handles extensions
<rick_h> right, and nothing to do with JS security
<rick_h> :P
<snap-l> rick_h: I can see this getting worse before it gets better. :)
<snap-l> Javascript is extremely powerful and very well integrated into the browser.
<greg-g> don't use chrome :)
<snap-l> Good evenning
<rick_h> party
<snap-l> http://blandvargar.bandcamp.com/ <- And this is why I don't play much black metal
<snap-l> although this isn't the worst I've heard.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-18
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NDQ7u3yImas
<rick_h> lol, nice
<rick_h> morning, everyone hung over from green beer?
<brousch> i wish
<rick_h> heh
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h> party
<snap-l> we actually had the anti-St. Patrick's Day
<snap-l> Went to Famous Daves, and had moscato at home. :)
<rick_h> nice
<jcastro> rick_h, snap-l
<jcastro> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/r23jr/while_you_guys_were_out_drinking_last_night_i/
<jcastro> can I get some upboats?
<rick_h> jcastro: done
<rick_h> jcastro: so in that post, you don't really say what Clint did to help un-smoke things? Just mysql tuning crap or some magic bullet?
<jcastro> our ootb mysql package is basically worthless
<jcastro> it can't run anything
<jcastro> it's like awesome for the guy wanting to set up lamp on his laptop
<snap-l> jcastro: upvoted
<jcastro> <3
<snap-l> http://i.imgur.com/tLdkF.png
 * waldo323 almost sunk
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/raw/TX2wWXVeeGIUlBMHF7bR/ <- jcastro: thoughts on this blurb for Penguicon?
<snap-l> or anyone else who might wan to participate in the discussion. ;)
<jcastro> that reads awesome to me
<snap-l> jcastro: Cool. I'll send it off, then.
<jrwren> jcastro: that is a sweet post.
<jrwren> ssh-import-id is an ubuntu thing or a juju thing?
<jrwren> oh, its on package
<rick_h> app that a guy wrote that's packaged for ubuntu
<jrwren> sweet
<rick_h> he wanted to try to get it into ssh, but denied
<jrwren> oh sweet, you can even extend it to pull from other urls in /etc/ssh/ssh_import_id
<jrwren> or maybe just change it from LP to github ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-11
<rick_h_droid> ugh signed up for hulu. forgot how awful commercials are
<snap-l> Yep.
<snap-l> I love it when I stream from a site that knows I'm blocking ads, and tells me that I should turn off ad blocking
<snap-l> "hell. No."
<snap-l> It's like telling me I should stop showering
<rick_h_droid> I have to do that to a couple sites.
<Blazeix> privoxy+hulu worked out well
<Blazeix> back before i rage-quit hulu
<snap-l> Yeah, I used to use t for the Daily Show until The Daily Show stram worked better than Hulu
<rick_h_droid> yea getting it for that, some kids stuff, and some of the wife's cooking shows.
<rick_h_> lol http://www.businessinsider.com/an-ingenious-way-of-using-google-maps-to-tell-where-rich-people-and-poor-people-live-2013-3
<snap-l> After a great deal of thought I've decided that MobiDevDay Detroit 2013 will be
<snap-l> the last DetroitDevDays Production.  DetroitDevDays will officially be no more.
<snap-l> THANK YOU, EVERYONE FOR SUPPORTING DEVDAYS these past few years. THANK YOU most
<snap-l> of all to my daughters and my wife Sanja.
<snap-l> I hope to see you all at MobiDevDay Detroit.
<Blazeix> aw, sad
<snap-l> Yeah, only got to go that one time, but had a blast.
<widox> seems odd to end them, they were well attended
<snap-l> Probably a lot of familial strain to put them on
<brousch1> I'm speaking at 2013
<snap-l> Re python on mobile devices?
<brousch1> It is weird because the first part of the announcement says how they are growing it to be the biggest in the world, then it ends saying it's the last one
<brousch1> Yeah, Kivy
<snap-l> Go out with a bang, that's the way I'd like to do
<snap-l> go
<snap-l> Actually, dying in my sleep peacefully is the way I'd like to go
<snap-l> but bang would be a good 4th
<snap-l> sex is #2. Not sure what #3 would be
<snap-l> Reading a nice book on the toilet, perhaps
<brousch1> What are you, Elvis?
<snap-l> Anywho, where was I?
<snap-l> brousch1: I'm the Elvis of the Creative Commons Metal Subgenre.
<brousch1> Based on the hype for the event I'll be the crubbiest speaker there
<snap-l> and by Elvis I mean I like Peanut Butter.
<snap-l> I don't know why I try to balance my Paypal account
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> and I hate designers...that is all...for now
<brousch> Without designers we'd all still be using text in a console. Think of the horror!
 * rick_h_ goes giddy with delight
<snap-l> And it's anoter work from hospital day.
<rick_h_> ruh roh everyone ok?
<snap-l> J's dad fell.
<snap-l> Hope it's nothing.
<snap-l> brb
<rick_h_> snap-l: +1
<snap-l> Well, hospital wifi is pretty fast today.
<rick_h_> woot
<snap-l> We having fun yet?
<jrwren> hyperdex looks interesting.
<snap-l> Ex-Detroit mayor convicted of corruption charges
<snap-l> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/11/us-usa-crime-kilpatrick-idUSBRE92A0HV20130311
<greg-g> did ars technica rss feed blow up for anyone else?
<rick_h_> greg-g: not so far as I can tell
<greg-g> must be newsblur or something
<snap-l> new keyboard showed up. :)
<snap-l> So, yay
<rick_h_> double yay!
<snap-l> Yeah
<derekv> i might order that ergodox
<derekv> snap-l: congrats
<rick_h_> derekv: bring it to CHC. Want to check it out
<derekv> rick_h_ no doubt, it'd be a while before I had it operational however
<rick_h_> yea
<derekv> I didn' look at if the firmware they have has keymap switching
<derekv> so it might be in some weird dvorak derivation =]
<derekv> thinking about ordering just blank keycaps and keeping a .png handy for refrence when I need it
<derekv> keycap labels are a fuckup anyways for learning, you learn much faster if you have to refrence something and make your finger "feel" for the key rather than follow your eyes
<derekv> pardon my french
<derekv> ah you know what would be great or at least great for conversation, actual flipswitches for all the -lock keys
<greg-g> nice
<derekv> a toggle switch
<derekv> have like a row of toggle switches on your keyboard heh
<derekv> with funky lights
<derekv> some knobs
<derekv> a bunch of analog meters
<derekv> periodically steam should waft out
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> "what was that noise?" "sorry, my keyboard overheated and had to blow off some steam"
<snap-l> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZujUU9khuqY/TFMM_RbZ1YI/AAAAAAAAAF8/bAXlHCZa2Yc/s1600/newcam+054.JPG
<snap-l> Like this setup
<derekv> nice!
<greg-g> snap-l: what the? who is that?
<snap-l> Rush
<derekv> though if I was going to all that trouble i'd also wear some costume
<snap-l> Time Machine Tour
<greg-g> oh, yeah, that's him
<derekv> not like a walmart polo
<derekv> if you google for steampunk keyboards i know there's some neat stuff
<snap-l> derekv: Frankly they could show up in bow-ties and smiles; I'd still go see 'em. :)
<derekv> hot
<derekv> rock music swing music
<derekv> ultimatly i'd start with a huge, draculaesq organ panel
<derekv> in front of a large projection screen surrounded by misc displays, lots of decrative cabling and brass fittings
<derekv> it'h have hammer-keys in a split configuration, intact foot pedals, and then different keyboard/input modules that would swing in/out depending on the focused task
<greg-g> derekv: now that last part would be awesome :)
<derekv> until someones arm gets mangled in the works
<derekv> =p
<greg-g> well, efficiency comes with costs, like everything
 * greg-g thinks of charlie chaplan getting stuck in the gears of industry
<brousch> snap-l: Rush is playing in GR on my birthday
<snap-l> brousch: you should go
<snap-l> George would love the drum solo
<brousch> He would cry from the noise
<greg-g> get nose bleed section seats
<brousch> There are some way up high seats
<brousch> Like you're standing on top of a ledge with the roof 1ft overhead
<greg-g> ah, the endless "welcome <name>!" email replies to a new staff welcome message at a 150 person organization :)
<brousch> Mark them all as spam
<greg-g> "I'm sorry, I didn't get your email. It was in my spam folder, along with all other WMF employee messages for some reason"
<rick_h_> lol, good call
<rick_h_> just got notice that it's review time here!
<greg-g> weeee
<rick_h_> yay, 'my co-worker did some stuff...I didn't complete my goals because I was changed what I was working on 3 times last year...'
<snap-l> I set reasonable expectations in my goals
<snap-l> took on oxygen and water, expelled CO2 and waste
<snap-l> The rest is gravy
<brousch> You expel gravy?
<snap-l> yep.
<brousch> gross
<snap-l> u asked
<brousch> http://techblog.netflix.com/2013/03/python-at-netflix.html
<snap-l> rick_h_: What's your opinion of Stevie Ray-Vaugh-esque blues?
<snap-l> I remember it being pretty dim
<snap-l> http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/mlloyola-inaminute/
<snap-l> Two tracks in, and I'm loving it
<snap-l> but then again, I like Blues Traveller.
<greg-g> I love me some Stevie Ray-Vaughn
<snap-l> greg-g: You might like this, then
<rick_h_> snap-l: I like some of it. kenny wayne shepard as well
<snap-l> You might like this then
<snap-l> lmk if you want high quality files. I have some to share. :)
<_stink_> hmm i might like this too
<snap-l> Apparently JoDee doesn't like the slower stuff. She asked "When did we start listening to country"
<snap-l> so now we're listening to S.O.D. because of JoDee
<snap-l> I <3 my wife
<brousch> Did I miss some announcement re: launchpad? "Launchpad and Bazaar are both in maintenance mode where new features are unlikely to get added."
<snap-l> brousch: Not sure if that was announced, but it's been true for a while iirc.
<greg-g> snap-l: SOD? I thought it was SOAD, System of a Down?
<snap-l> Stormtroopers of Doom
<snap-l> aka: Scott and Charlie from Anthrax with Billy Milano and Dan Lilker of Nuclear Assault
<snap-l> (Milano of MOD)
<greg-g> ah
<greg-g> I haven't thought of SOAD in ages
<snap-l> Nobody has. :)
<snap-l> (*cough*)
<greg-g> hah
<snap-l> http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=184031#comment-2732353 <- greg-g
<greg-g> hah, at least I'm not the only one
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, both true for a while. bzr for a while before LP
<rick_h_> http://ispspeedindex.netflix.com/usa yay 11th!
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> surprised google fiber isn't more distant, but maybe that's the streaming limit from netflix?
<snap-l> At least you show up on the list. :)
<snap-l> Not seeing WOW on that list at all
<rick_h_> hmmwell isn't wow another company's network?
<snap-l> I think they were AT&T at one point
<snap-l> not sure if they atill are or not
<greg-g> also, I bet MonkeyBrains would be on there if they didn't limit by some lower bound of percentage of their user base (http://monkeybrains.net/wireless.html)
<rick_h_> hmm, I thought they were cable thuogh
<rick_h_> if they were ATT I'd expect it to be a dsl service
<snap-l> greg-g: I love that their coverage map is essentially San Francisco
<snap-l> "The Islands of San Francisco"
<snap-l> "The Fiefdom of Fear"
<snap-l> "Burroughs of Despair"
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/898/ <- 1DevDay Lives
<greg-g> snap-l: well, they're microwave based, so line of sight, bunny hopping around :)
<snap-l> ugh
<snap-l> Sounds like an idea that we hd at Wayne State back in the 1990s for getting fast internet
<greg-g> hey, it works here :) they're rocking it
<snap-l> Unfortunately line of sight was a pain in the ass
<snap-l> yeah, no doubt
<snap-l> http://ardour.org/whatsnew.html <- Nice new release
<snap-l> Dammit, Python's Timedelta is kind of a pain in the ass for year calculations
<snap-l> Should have used relativedelta instead.
<Blazeix> also the cloud.
<rick_h_> mor cloud-bell
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-12
<derekv> so are traffic tickets in downtown detroit a thing
<derekv> i thought actually they weren't a thing
<derekv> but I guess they are
<snap-l> derekv: Yeah, it's called fundraising
<snap-l> jbiqafl!
<snap-l> Well, that's embarrassing
<rick_h_> snap-l: doh, password reset time?
<brousch> I like this suggestion http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1246
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yes
<snap-l> Though the machine in question isn't accessible without ssh keys
<snap-l> Tomorrow can't come soon enough, along with better bandwidth.
<rick_h_> woot!
<snap-l> yea, I need to convince them to turn the wireless off, or at least show me how to turn it off
<snap-l> Apparenty it's one of those home networking jobbie-doos
<snap-l> Of course, if it works better than my current router...
<rick_h_> damn I think my eyes are cursed. "I'll just replace this footrest...hmm...oh that one looks nice"
<rick_h_> and of course it costs 5x the rest of them :/
<snap-l> rick_h_: You have expensive tastes. :)
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/UotB5
<rick_h_> I mean look at the rest of the 'customers also viewed..."
<snap-l> rick_h_: you just need to train your cats better
<rick_h_> I've trained them to run when I enter the room
<snap-l> they'll sit for hours as a footrest
<rick_h_> works well for me
<snap-l> Wwait, footrest? Are you sitting again?
<rick_h_> I sit for some of the day. I can't do the whole day standing
<snap-l> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41RcdOetk8L.jpg
<snap-l> Dude, this isn't a footrest, it's a fucking skateboard
<rick_h_> but it looks like a nice footrest :P
<snap-l> http://www.aaafurnituredirect.com/servlet/the-12496/Maitland-Smith-4231-dsh-026-Mahogany/Detail?gclid=CJvSj_Gi97UCFULf4AodvywApg <- rick_h_
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> Now that's a footrest
<jrwren_> http://i3wm.org/
<jrwren_> juju is a cross platform alternative to elastic beanstalk.
<rick_h_> no lockin ftw :)
<jrwren_> yay
<rick_h_> l..o...l https://twitter.com/DGoddamnGlover/status/310523253787619331
<snap-l> You're not a real hipster until I see you at the coffee shop with one of these: http://ur1.ca/d1pqs
<dzho> heh
<dzho> we actually have book binding equipment at the local hackerspace
<dzho> not a press, but some trimming hardware
<dzho> one of which could probably lop off a leg without slowing down
<snap-l> Yeah, the local game shop has a POD service that has trimming and binding stuff
<snap-l> and yes, it looks like serious business
<brousch> snap-l: Remember how I said yesterday that I had no idea what "Roll up the rim to win means"?
<snap-l> brousch: Saw the commercial?
<brousch> This morning I went to Tim hortons, and there, in giant letters on my cup is "RRROLL UP THE RIM TO WIN"
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> and now you know
<rick_h_> hmm, wher's jcastro been
<snap-l> He's still on IRC, just not in this channel
<greg-g> SEE WHAT HAPPENS! THEY HATE THE COMMUNITY NOW!
<snap-l> Hoping the whome community kerfluffle didn't scare him away.
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> It's all because greg-g ragequit
<snap-l> though greg-g still shows as having signed the CoC.
 * snap-l unsigned it in solidarity
<greg-g> the original one, not the updated one
<greg-g> I de-memberized
<brousch> I believe the official term is bobbitized
<greg-g> lol
<greg-g> brousch++
<brousch> Goes well with CoC
<brousch> To join, sign up for the CoC. To leave, you bobbitize
 * greg-g hangs head
<brousch> Too much?
<greg-g> naw, it was the obvious next step
<snap-l> greg-g: Ah, I unsigned both
<brousch> snap-l: You can't unsign! You're our leader!
<snap-l> technically, it's not a requirement
<snap-l> at least I didn't see anything about it outside of being a member or ubuntero
<snap-l> and I'm not sure it's even being followed. I mentioed the Collaborator section to Mark S. on G+
<snap-l> my big concern was the community seems to get this information after the roadmap is determined
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/116915640151584325691/posts/24jCKe2dejV
<snap-l> That's been my pain-point with the community thus far.
<dzho> snap-l: he references bug #1 but then talks about how it's a multi-device world.
<dzho> The problem with that is that bug #1 is aimed specifically at the dominance of one company, Microsoft, of one platform, the desktop.
<dzho> In a multi-device world, both of those matter less.
<snap-l> Yeah, and eventually I may resign the CoC
<snap-l> but for now I think I need a break to regain my enthusiasm
<greg-g> there's #ubuntu-expats on OFTC ;)
<snap-l> oftc? rly?
<greg-g> 'tis where Debain channels live
<brousch> Only channel I've ever visited there was #cherrypy
<snap-l> https://www.uber.com/cities/detroit#cities
<jrwren_> rick_h_droid: w/out a makefile in curdir, i can make blah and it will search for blah.c and invoke CC or blah.cpp and invoke CPP, what is this default makefile?
<snap-l> Evening
<snap-l> MUG Meeting tonight
<rick_h_> jrwren_: no idea :/
<rick_h_> lol http://instagram.com/p/WxGDicmT9b/
<snap-l> rick_h_: That's awesome. :)
<jrwren_> rick_h_: turns out, you can just leave empty rules
<rick_h_> jrwren_: defaults ftw!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-13
<mathomastech> Trying to find my weechat config finals but can't remember where it is. Any suggestions?
<mathomastech> nm found it. They hid it in the home directory :S
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Got JoDee a new battery pack for her laptop
<snap-l> The instructions say "Never Hammer a Nail into the battery pack"
<snap-l> http://mp3tribute.com/
<snap-l> This makes me happy on so many levels
<snap-l> Not happy for Aaron's untimely passing, which should have never come to pass
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> r we having fun yet?
<rick_h_> oh party
<rick_h_> almost had an accident on the way to day care...still shaking a bit
<rick_h_> closests I've come in a long time...darn ice
<snap-l> Oh god. You OK?
<rick_h_> cleared my first ditch in the new car :)
<snap-l> Is Michael OK?
<rick_h_> yea, just end of sub division road was ice
<snap-l> Oh, so kept on going?
<rick_h_> so hit the brakes (at 25mph) and kept sliding with crossing traffic coming
<snap-l> Yipes
<brousch> eek
<rick_h_> anyway, managed to turn away from teh traffic and do a u-turn around the corner, into the ditch and back out where I started
<snap-l> rick_h_: glad you're safe, regardless
<snap-l> Well that was weird
<rick_h_> that good?
<snap-l> freenode reset on me
<snap-l> But otherwise looks fine
<dzho> moo
<greg-g> rick_h_: holy cow man, eek
<snap-l> We having fun yet?
<brousch> Yes
<rick_h_> greg-g: is the bart running 24hrs?
<rick_h_> or I guess it looks from around 4:30am ish through around 1am depending on stop
<greg-g> yeah, not 24hr, stupidly
<rick_h_> hmmm, I hate sucky flight choices
<greg-g> I'm experiencing my first OMG TOO MANY USERS EDITING WIKIPEDIA ALL AT ONCE ops firealarm firsthand, #popedotted
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> "conflict encountered"
<greg-g> mysql db connection errors
<greg-g> cache hit shittyness with mobile users
<greg-g> you know, the usual
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> greg-g: is LAX as crappy as experience at an airport as I'd assume it is?
 * rick_h_ really doesn't want to connect through there
<greg-g> it sucks, you have to walk outside to get to the other terminals (if you have to switch them, I did when I did International-> Domestic there)
<greg-g> plus, full of LA people
<greg-g> like, muscle shirt guys
<rick_h_> yea, if I fly into OAK I have to go through LAX. but if I go to SFO I have to leave SFO at 7am...which will be a pita to get to
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> Where ya headin?
<rick_h_> oakland
<brousch> but why?
<rick_h_> think I'll just SFO and pay for the cab back at 4am ugh
<rick_h_> oh, for work later on.
<rick_h_> was much easier when I could just drive
<snap-l> Pope JOrge
<rick_h_> orly?
<rick_h_> so he takes a new name? one day I should look into how this works
<snap-l> Yeah, he's Pope Francis 1
<rick_h_> greg-g: have to get together and try to do dinner at least one night while I'm closer than 1000 miles :)
<greg-g> rick_h_: indeed :)
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1a7gns/whenever_somebody_sends_you_a_pull_request_give/
<snap-l> Um, I call bullshit
<snap-l> Facilitate contribution, yes, but this is the equivalent of marrying the first person who asks you on a date
<snap-l> It's flurrying outside
<snap-l> what the heck?
<rick_h_> so um.... greg-g how's newsblur?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-14
 * Blazeix whispers: rick_h_! who are these people in our room!?
<rick_h_> Blazeix: it's a couple that is working on learning to program
<rick_h_> they wanted to come ask questions and hang out with programmers
<rick_h_> the girl off to the side is his sister doing homework I guess
<Blazeix> oh cool, so they are potential CHCers
<rick_h_> right, very very early CHCers
<greg-g> rick_h_: I love it, probably slow right now though :)
<Blazeix> rick_h_ decided in CHC that newsblur was the most horrible thing he'd ever seen.
<Blazeix> something about rainbox and green boxes
<Blazeix> *rainbows
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> can't please 'em all
<snap-l> Um, so my slides for my low spam run your own mail server are up. ;)
<greg-g> where abouts?
<snap-l> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/low_spam.pdf
<brousch> Geez, I must have pissed off Google somehow. They're killing Reader and removing ad blocking apps
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> brousch: Yep, it's all your fault
<brousch> They already killed Listen
<snap-l> I'm surprised someone thought this was going to be condoned by Google.
<brousch> They've been in there for years
<snap-l> Google is not Apple
<brousch> I've been using ad block since my first Android phone 4? years ago
<snap-l> They probably didn't realize they were in the play store until someone bitched
<brousch> rick_h_: If I send you $5 will you add feed reader functionality into Bookie?
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> I think a sprint is forthcoming
<brousch> If only I had the time
<snap-l> I love it when people say Twitter is a replacement for RSS
<snap-l> No, RSS is for people who aren't on Twitter 24/7
<snap-l> And it's got people who are lazy
<brousch> I will be seriously butthurt if they kill reader without offering a replacement
<brousch> I spend about an hour a day in Reader, because doing it any other way would take me 3 hours
<snap-l> Get used to disappointment
<brousch> :P
<rick_h_> yea, it's a mess.
<rick_h_> and from my looking around last night everyone things rss means an email client
<brousch> ug
<rick_h_> so yea, there's some more hunting to do and maybe some code to be written. I don't know yet. I don't think I can tie rss into bookie. They're two different things.
<snap-l> That's how I treat my RSS; as though it were another inbox
<rick_h_> but what's interesting is that the new UI I've starting messing with I think would work for rss reading
<snap-l> Too bad we didn't have this idea 1 year earlier.
<rick_h_> I've been wanting to get a bookie ui with the list of bookmarks on the left and keyboard shortcuts to open their readable content/details in a wider right pane
<rick_h_> and you could juse scroll through the bookmarks reading content as you go like a feed
<rick_h_> and to be touch friendly so that swipes could work as well
<brousch> You'd need a queue in Bookie, like a tag that goes away when you visit a bookmark
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, I think it's too much to try to force the metaphor into bookmarks
<rick_h_> and the back end is completely different
<rick_h_> I think it'd just be a different application reusing UI widget components
<rick_h_> but someone must have this already, so not given up looking for something decent yet
<brousch> It is, but one of the apps I've wanted to build is a bunch of queues
<snap-l> RSS is not queues
<snap-l> It's a series of tubes. :)
<snap-l> No, wait.
<rick_h_> it is in a way
<snap-l> It's very much like a set of onboxes
<rick_h_> "mark all as read" == 'clear this queue'
<snap-l> inboxes, rather
<snap-l> queue implies FIFO
<rick_h_> bah, the problem with the email metaphor is the wasted UI space for the list of messages.
<snap-l> and RSS is not necessarily FIFO
<snap-l> I didn't say listing messages like email
<rick_h_> no, but forget that and it tends to be used as up-processed work items you walk through
<rick_h_> s/up/un
<rick_h_> very much like a worker queue where each category/feed is a queue in the system. you pick a queue and walk through un-processed work items
<snap-l> I think it might be time to rethink RSS reading in general
<snap-l> And not "hey, let's make it a dashboard" bullshit
<rick_h_> well, that's currents/whatever-the-bleep-the-iphone-app-is
<snap-l> True, but I'm thinking something like podcatching applications
<snap-l> there's some out there that will keep however many episodes indefinitely
<snap-l> and some episodes will have a backlog of 3 or so
<snap-l> so you don't keep the totality of the Marketplace feed because who cares about last week's news
<snap-l> So perhaps something with auto-expire on certain folders
<snap-l> ie: If I haven't read /. feed in a week, start culling the herd
<snap-l> but if I haven't read Sluggy Freelance in a week, keep that stuff around indefinitely.
<snap-l> And now I:Scintilla join the mp3tribute.com tribute
<snap-l> This gives me a happy
<jrwren_> snap-l: i like your slides.
<jrwren_> snap-l: of each of those antispam measures, which would you say does most good?
<snap-l> They all work in tandem, though bl.spamcop.net is lilely the least effective.
<snap-l> zen.spamhaus.org and DNS lookups are the two that are most effective
<snap-l> SPF lookups are pretty effective as well
<snap-l> And thank you. :)
<rick_h_> ugh, feedhq is fugly as well
<rick_h_> snap-l: booo for sharing that post
<rick_h_> deduplication...that's a dream I've once had...
<rick_h_> feedhq is at least django and looks hackable...open source but ugh
<brousch> djangooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<snap-l> rick_h_: Sorry.
<jrwren_> snap-l: do you greylist as well?
<snap-l> jrwren_: No
<snap-l> I think it's pointless for small installations
<snap-l> Unless you get 1000s of pieces of email per day, greylisting is more trouble than it's worth IMO
<snap-l> I tried it, and found that gmail would constantly rese thte clock
<snap-l> s/rese/reset/
<snap-l> THe biggeer providers need to be whitelisted
<snap-l> at which point I decided it was a waste of time
<snap-l> We had greylisting over at SF.net when I was there, but the basic premise that spammers don't wait is flawed
<snap-l> The stuff I mentioned catches the ones that aren't operating in the open, and catches the known offenders
<snap-l> Major point to consider: I am lazy. I don't want to think about my email server more than I have to
<greg-g> oh, rick, you may like the new redesign of newsblur, if you have an account, go to dev.newsblur.com
<greg-g> rick_h_: ^
<dzho> is it working today?
<dzho> it was pretty hammered last night
<greg-g> dev.newsblur.com is doing better than the main site
<greg-g> BUT DON'T TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS! IT IS OUT LITTLE QUICK PLAYGROUND RIGHT NOW
<brousch> tweeted and reddited
<greg-g> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo
<snap-l> That's actually not that bad
<brousch> Heh, I get a 502 at dev.newsblur.com
<greg-g> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<greg-g> you ruined it, brousch !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<rick_h_> greg-g: I'll check it out
<greg-g> rick_h_: brousch broke it
<rick_h_> doh
<rick_h_> brousch: breaks everything...you think he'd like it since it's django
<brousch> Django is the best!
<rick_h_> except it can't stay up :P
<rick_h_> or maybe we can blame mongo hah!
<brousch> It's obvious that Python doesn't scale
<snap-l> No, but it does whittle.
<snap-l> I think I could get used to this faster network
<rick_h_> woot!
<snap-l> Good evening
<rick_h_droid> party
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-15
<jcastro> rick_h_4: hey, offhand, which lp team is working on maas?
<rick_h_> jcastro: red I believe but they're trying to get off of it and move on I think
<dzho> good morning, all my fine nerdsibs
<snap-l> Morning
<rick_h_> morn
<snap-l> Hnging out at the doctor's office with JoDee and her dad
<brousch> Sounds like fun
<snap-l> totally
<snap-l> apparently the VPN doesn't work over my phone
<rick_h_> doh
<snap-l> Yeah, though ssh to my machine seems to be working OK
<rick_h_> on ssh to rule them all
<snap-l> Using X windows to run rdesktop on my home machine
<snap-l> I swear, ifer take that away, I'll ragequit. ;)
<snap-l> s/ifer/if they ever/
<rick_h_> bah, no X required :P
<snap-l> SHow me something else that can do what X does wihtout pre-thinking it, and I'll switch. :)
<snap-l> You'll takem my ssh -X from my cold dead fingers.
<rick_h_> http://pycon.timvideos.us/
<snap-l> Also, this fucking flash intro at work needs to die in a fire
<snap-l> I'm wasting bandwidth just to display our outdated mission statement
<rick_h_> hah, well good luck with that
<snap-l> *rolls eyes*
<snap-l> If it didn't have this dippy animation
<rick_h_> ummm no comment http://r.bmark.us/u/13fc0473487827
<snap-l> Y'know... ;)
<snap-l> Why do people call Shuttleworth Shuttlecock?
<rick_h_> because everyone likes a little ... nope...didn't go there
<snap-l> badminton?
<snap-l> Seriously, there's some lady here who chose to sit right next to me and talk
<snap-l> Thank Christ her ride showed up
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> Love explaining that I'm at work.
<rick_h_> headphones ftw
<snap-l> "What would you do without all that?"
<snap-l> "I'd be in an office"
<rick_h_> big giant open ear'd over the head headphones
<snap-l> ergo STFU
<greg-g> made my first comment in gerrit.wikimedia.org !
<brousch> I DON'T CARE IF YOUR HUSBAND IS IN THE ICU, LADY. I'M TRYING TO DEBUG THIS CODE!
<brousch> Ug. converting between metric and architectural length units is the biggest PITA on this whole project so far
<greg-g> wait, there's "architectural units" now? not just metric and stupid, er, "english"?
<brousch> Well it's imperial in a specific format
<brousch> 3' 2-7/8"
<brousch> Like that
<brousch> The draftsmen need that format, the software needs mm
<greg-g> don't crash your building on the surface of mars
<rick_h_> snap-l: Blazeix remind me to bring this up to the new people at CHC if they're back next week. http://trizpug.org/boot-camp/pyohio13
<snap-l> Got my System 76 stickers.
<rick_h_> awesome
<snap-l> brousch: More like she was saying she had a clean bill of health, and she was waiting for her ride, and oh, that's a fancy setup you have there. People all over with their noses in their laptops and cellphones and...
<snap-l> "Oh, you can work with that? Well we should just get you a desk and..."
<snap-l> Dear lady, please don't make me kill you in your sleep
<snap-l> hugs and kisses, me
<rick_h_> hah, "please learn perl before it dies..." http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1aczh1/perl_the_language_everybody_wants_to_declare_dead/
<rick_h_> is how it reads more than "look I'm not dead yet"
<snap-l> Big fan of Perl but frankly I'd rather not deal with it anymore
<snap-l> yes, I said it
<snap-l> Python has spoiled me
<snap-l> And any benefit Perl 6 or 5.10+ might have is immaterial when I can do "pip install (current thought)" and keep moving
<snap-l> What the... linuxadvocates?
<snap-l> APparently comp.os.linux.advocacy escaped and is now wild on the web
<snap-l> I <3 his example btw.
<snap-l> $ perl -piÂ  -e âtr/[a-z]/[A-Z]/â sample.txt
<snap-l> as opposed to "string".upper()
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> My friend works at Booking.com (priceline) and he says they're hiring a dozen perl developers
<brousch> In the netherlands
<snap-l> That's nice
<snap-l> sf.net uses Perl for their sysadmin
<snap-l> I'm not saying it isn't used anymore, I'm saying I'd rather be using Python. :)
<rick_h_> :( the sadness continues http://r.bmark.us/u/6e404a5316179d
<snap-l> Give me a fucking break
<snap-l> Not only has work begun to offer the community alternatives to Reader specifically (save us Digg!), work is being done on the other pieces of the RSS infrastructure, as well.
<rick_h_> if rss dies I'm going to be very sad...and the new gopher of the internet
<snap-l> Save us Digg? Seriously?
<snap-l> That's like asking a lead weight to take you to the surface
<brousch> Damn, I didn't know about that
<snap-l> I still have it
<snap-l> The RSS extension
<rick_h_> yea, but try to find it in the store
<snap-l> Yeah, lovely
<rick_h_> it's a small thing, but sad still
<snap-l> Hoping it's clerical error, and not a sign of things to come
<snap-l> though frankly that extension is janky
<brousch> Is anyone setting up an instance of newsblur?
<brousch> I might give a go if I can find time this weekend
<rick_h_> no, if I did anythign I'll to feedhq and start hacking on it
<rick_h_> /to/do
<brousch> But djangoooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<rick_h_> feedhq is django :P
<brousch> So how is it better than newsblur?
<rick_h_> and while not pretty the UI hasn't been hit with a 'let's just add one more stupid flashing control/button" yet
<rick_h_> /yet/stick
<brousch> Looks weird
<rick_h_> man all of these are just horrid UX-wise. makes me cry
<brousch> The font or size of the page is annoying
<rick_h_> on which one? or both of them?
<brousch> feedhq
<rick_h_> yea, it needs love as well. At least though it's less busy/crazy to start with
<brousch> Does it have an Android client?
<rick_h_> it's WEB
<rick_h_> forget stupid phone clients. Just use a decent webui...if one of them could fix their UX
 * rick_h_ won't start writing an app...will not...
<brousch> I can see you writing phonegap apps
<rick_h_> no no no no...it'd be http://nonsuckyrss.com
<rick_h_> be responsive, and it's be swipe/touch friendly for mobile peeps
<rick_h_> without so damn many buttons on them
<brousch> heh
<brousch> I still think it could be hacked on to bookie, maybe even just using the api
<rick_h_> heh, trust me. I've thought about it. And if I did write something I'd end up sharing web ui components between them for sure
<rick_h_> but it doesn't fit the bookie backend very well at all
<brousch> Scrape feeds, add them all to my bookie with an unread tag. Pull out the unreads, read them with breadable, remove unread tag (and delete)
<rick_h_> and here you definitely want to share feed data. with bookmarks, and logins, your page might look different than my bookmark'ed page
<rick_h_> but not so with public rss feeds
<rick_h_> man I wish my wife's student loans were gone. I'd almost quit and start hacking.
<rick_h_> I did think about pulling newsblur and seeing if I could get a link in for 'save to Bookie' for feed items you awnt to bookmark
<brousch> But if bookie is the reader, it's already bookmarked before you do anything
<brousch> You would autobookmark every article in your feeds
<rick_h_> yea, but now you've got a ton of crap that's not a cultured set of bookmarks
<brousch> Right, so delete the stuff you don't want to save and add tags to the stuff you want to keep
<brousch> Like email!
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> Bookie is my new email client
<rick_h_> Blazeix: http://r.bmark.us/u/d2cb7eca19a7ea
<brousch> Say a talk on that at GRDevDay. It looked pretty interesting
<rick_h_26> too much magic for my tastes
<brousch> Saves a crapload of code
<brousch> I like that google uses it extensively
<snap-l> JoDee's sick. Caught her watching the old Battlestar Galactica series voluntarily.
<snap-l> Now she's watching some show called NYC Prep.
<rick_h_26> uh oh
<brousch> snap-l: Alzheimer's?
<rick_h_26> dammit I'm sitting here folding laundry thinking of ways to do RSS items with detecting dupes and building intelligent prioritizing of unread content.
<brousch> My plan is working. Get the rick_h_ wetware working on a problem and it will be solved!
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> you know, instead of being all NIH, maybe chip in with NewsBlur, it does the intelligent prioritization part already... (yeah, you could build a new interface for it...)
<greg-g> ;)
<rick_h_26> I looked but just not a fan. I've downloaded feedhq and started looking at the source.
<rick_h_26> but my points aren't  Nih just working thoughts out in my head ;)
<jcastro> NIH! NIH! is the new "Send me a patch"
<rick_h_26> jcastro this Google cloud article is cool.
<rick_h_26> http://r.bmark.us/u/86747a3302e585 for others
<jcastro> yep
<rick_h_26> can't wait to test it out when it open source
<rick_h_26> opens up that is
<rick_h_26> stupid keyboard completion
<jcastro> why are you _26?
<brousch> I think we need a Google Reader replacement that you can deploy to Google App Engine in the free tier.
<jcastro> or just write a charm?
<jcastro> and use every free tier?
<rick_h_26> jcastro because the tablet loses connection/reconnects sometimes
<jcastro> what does the 26 mean?
<brousch> jcastro: That misses the irony of it
<rick_h_droid> it's just a random number it uses. hmm seems it didn't auth
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-16
<rick_h_droid> there we go
<rick_h_droid> brousch just no time for irony. too much work to do heh
<rick_h_droid> f'ing hate django...  https://github.com/mitechie/feedhq/commit/198702120c51fc2442d4942824dcb9c040fb2c7e
<brousch> What are you whining about?
<rick_h_droid> django and wsgi as an after thought
<rick_h_droid> and just read roo much settings.py hacky crap. just hate django code
<snap-l> jcastro: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/125368/dino-hunt-dice
<Blazeix> rick_h_droid: cool, thanks for the angularjs link
<greg-g> wow, it must be friday night, last message in my twitter timeline was 2 hours ago
<brousch> rick_h_: What martini are you sipping this morning?
<rick_h_> brousch: diet dr pepper
<brousch> That actually sounds good
<rick_h_> hmm, wonder if this snow is going to mess with our zoo trip today
<brousch> We might do the butterflies
<brousch> Or the circus
<rick_h_> we're not a circus family
<rick_h_> both the wife and I can't do those
<brousch> We went last year. It was OK
<snap-l> Morning
<snap-l> Off to shovel shit, I mean snow.
<snap-l> btw: metal on metalinjection.fm
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> http://thechangelog.com/slowmojs-executes-javascript-in-slow-motion/
<snap-l> Afternoon
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> survived the zoo, wasn't that bad actually
<rick_h_> kind of cool, saw the grizzly bears play fighting, the polar bears out and about
<snap-l> Coolness
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-17
<rick_h_> first pycon talk hits the web http://pyvideo.org/video/1668/keynote-2
<snap-l> Bringing up Windows to do our taxes
<snap-l> and JoDee's got a fever
<rick_h_> doh
<rick_h_> and double doh
<snap-l> Also came to the realization that we treat teachers like shit, because she already used her "sick day" on her dad
<snap-l> so now she'll have to show up to work or not get paid
<snap-l> I honestly do not know why anyone would become a teacher, save for absolutely loving it
<brousch> I use hr block online for taxes
<snap-l> it is the monastary or convent of jobs.
<brousch> No windows needed for half a decade
<snap-l> The only thing I trust less than the government is someone else with my SSN and financial information.
<rick_h_> yea, we farm out taxes ourselvse. It's too complicated and also my kryptonite
<rick_h_> I can do calc 4...but taxes is just too much for me to get my head around
<snap-l> http://www.apress.com/9781430247371
<rick_h_> I take the opinion that I don't expect my tax person to go to school for programming and I pay them for that up to date know-how
<snap-l> rick_h_: So, where do you take your taxes?
<snap-l> Because after putting my info into les taxact, we're owing the Fed 2k
<rick_h_droid> this year we're using a new accountant in lake orion my family's used for their businesses.
<rick_h_droid> heh we've paid the last 5years or so.
<rick_h_droid> but they accountants help us remember things like car registration, days care, and other stuff to put in there.
<snap-l> Ah, ok
<rick_h_droid> and nice to just hand them our Morgan Stanley statements and they figure it all out
<rick_h_droid> basically I drop off a folder of paperwork. they go though it and some questions and for more paperwork.
<rick_h_droid> and then done wheee
<snap-l> Well, I'm about ready to just go that route.
<snap-l> Seriously, the biggest problem I have is the damn colleges don't take out enough $$
<rick_h_droid> yea we've hard to have additional withholdings and might even go quarterly this year. a meeting later this month to figure that out.
<rick_h_droid> guvment wants their cut
<rick_h_droid> afternoon
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> party party, download-cache all the thigns
<brousch> Caching thigns will not help you. You need to cache the right things
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> well, pip install --no-install --download-cache=download-cache/python -r requirements.txt
<brousch> that is nice
<rick_h_> and mk_downloadcache and bin/pip install --no-index --no-dependencies --find-links file:///download-cache/python -r requirements.txt
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/bookie-download-cache
<rick_h_> phew, took a bit to push that
<brousch> Gonna make it easier to sprint on Bookie at PyOhio?
<rick_h_> hopefully, and easier to package into something like a juju charm and such
<rick_h_> less apt to blow up from network installing all the deps from pypi
<brousch> Yeah, that is annoying
<brousch> We ran into that on another project afterwards, but at least I knew what was going on due to last year's sub shop fun
<rick_h_> hah, cool
<rick_h_> yea, this will be better. In theory I could give out the git checkouts and you copy them and do `make all`
<greg-g> ugh, shivering
<greg-g> I should be under the covers, instead I'm writing a "Sorry, can't do any contract work with you." email to CC.
<rick_h_> shivering?
<rick_h_> that cold out west?
<greg-g> sick
<greg-g> it's like 60-something and mostly sunny
<greg-g> if it wasn't windy (it's always windy) I'd be outside laying in the slun
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha. :( on being sick
<greg-g> did I type slun? sun.
<Blazeix> it's saint patrick's day, you're allowed to slur.
<greg-g> touche
<rick_h_> jcastro: I'm scared! http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/17/4109522/lenovo-thinkpad-t431s-ultrabook-announced-priced-alongside-thinkpad-overhaul
<rick_h_> the changes to the mouse buttons for the trackpoint frighten me
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> I am saving up for the X1
<jcastro> T's are too big
<rick_h_> yea, but I'm guessing this trickles down into the X
<rick_h_> I'm wondering when they'll put a high res display on the x2X0
<snap-l> howdy
<rick_h_> party
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-10
<cmaloney> Cosmos
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> Commercials suck
<rick_h_> I'll wait for netflix I guess
<cmaloney> yeah, we will likjely get thge dvd
<jrwren> it was good.
<derekv> i hope its on netflix
<derekv> or amazon will do
<cmaloney> good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<Klaudioh> good morning
<mrgoodcat> morning
<cmaloney> Just had my greatest fear at the library realized
<cmaloney> (other than someone crazy engaging me in conversation)
<cmaloney> returned something and they didn't credit my account with the return
<cmaloney> dun dun DUUUUUUN
<rick_h_> ruhroh
<brousch> The what?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: you will pay for that item!
<rick_h_> at 3x market rate
<cmaloney> Or I'll ask them to check their shelves. :)
<cmaloney> (simple. :) )
<rick_h_> jcastro: happy b-day. You coming to MUG tomorrow?
<cmaloney> ^^
<jcastro> rick_h_, maybe
<jcastro> I am trying to make it through Monday first
<jcastro> man I am so behind
<rick_h_> jcastro: ouch ok. Well I've got a b-day gift in my backpack if you come out :)
<cmaloney> There is no Monday-problem that can't be taken out behind the shed and shot.
<cmaloney> (just sayin')
<DrDaemonEye> cmaloney: the sun is heading to earth and will impact on a Monday.
<cmaloney> DrDaemonEye: Not my problem. :)
<DrDaemonEye> :)
<cmaloney> Dammit. B&N in Downtown Royal Oak is shutting.
<brousch> Books are dead! Long live Amazon!
<cmaloney> bah
<rick_h_> heh, we went in there the other day. Then I wondered why I went in there
<cmaloney> yeah, they've been really hit with lack-of-inventory-itis.
<cmaloney> I'm going to miss the small selection of metal CDs they have.
<cmaloney> Actually found Pelican there.
<cmaloney> and The Ocean
<cmaloney> Dudes who did the ordering for that store were fucking champs.
<brousch> D00d, you should check out this podcast. I get all my metal from there.
<cmaloney> orly?
<cmaloney> http://soma.fm amirite?
<rick_h_> we did get some travel material while there
<rick_h_> but it was a bunch of meh
<greg-g> cmaloney: what's wrong with soma?!
<cmaloney> greg-g: Nothing. I'm just messing with brousch
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> Soma is great for when you want to fall asleep
<cmaloney> Or when you want to wake up to defcon radio
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> I love defcon radio
<cmaloney> It's one of my favorites on my Squeezebox
<cmaloney> 1) DefCon. 2) Metal Injection 3) Delicious Agony 4) (Don't remember offhand, but I think it's Goth Radio) 5) Underground 80s 6) WRCJFM
<cmaloney> I should just set 4) to TWiT.
<jrwren> that is a giant storefront in royal oak. i wonder what will replace it.
<cmaloney> jrwren: A consulting company
<rick_h_> jrwren: office space it sounds like
<cmaloney> they're getting a sweetheart deal
<rick_h_> well sounds like B&N had a sweet deal 50% off?
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's unfortunate that a lot of the landlords in Royal Oak are starting to raise rents
<cmaloney> Starting to see more empty storefronts downtown
<cmaloney> Will be interesting to see how many of them remain so
<brousch> parking lot
<jrwren> it seemed pretty rented out when I was there last night.
<jrwren> Yes, I made my way into oakland county.
<jrwren> it was difficult
<cmaloney> jrwren: ah HAH!
<cmaloney> What made it difficult? Not wanting to leave once you got there? :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: is crazy
<cmaloney> ?
<jrwren> you know I dislike oakland county, mostly the traffic. Sunday traffic was light.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Compared with Ann Arbor traffic where it's one way streets and dirty looks as far as the eye can see? :)
<cmaloney> I'll take heavy traffic. :)
<jrwren> ugh.
<jrwren> this fucking hipster walking his dog actually slowed down his gate in a cross walk, just so I'd have to slow down my car. we definitely made eye contact as I drove by.
<jrwren> this morning
<cmaloney> of course he did
<cmaloney> because Ann Arbor
<cmaloney> You're a second-class citizen Mr. Petrol-burning burning man
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: is GSoC communication supposed to be logged?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: it's supposed to be in public
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: to eleminate any debate on what's said
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: why what's up?
<mrgoodcat> nothing really. i'm just trolling around on irc channels and a lot of them are logged and it occured to me that it might be a gsoc requirement
<jrwren> cmaloney: oh how I wish that were true, and to a few, its true, but in general, AA is not all that hippie crazy.
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: s/gate/gait
<jrwren> thanks mrgoodcat
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yea, it's something I wanted to get setup byu no time. I've got a fresh digital ocean box taht I've just not had time to setup to log
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: sry i had to
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: How do you know he wasn't also walking a gate across the street. ;)
<mrgoodcat> i guess i don't
<mrgoodcat> it was a rash assumption on my part
<cmaloney> leashes are so cruel. That's why I walk my dog with a portable gate.
<mrgoodcat> a portable pen?
<cmaloney> fence
<cmaloney> It's 10 feet around me to comply with leash laws.
 * cmaloney is afraid to go online to see if there really is such a thing
<jrwren> electric and it kinda makes sense.
<mrgoodcat> i have a portable electric fence for my dog
<mrgoodcat> can set range from 10-50 feet
<jrwren> does it work well?
<mrgoodcat> it worked great
<mrgoodcat> for my old dog
<mrgoodcat> my current dog doesn't need it
<mrgoodcat> the way it worked was a little different than a regular electric fence though. instead of shocking when she "passed through" the fence, it acts more like a maximum distance. It shocks until she comes back
<mrgoodcat> or some time limit passed
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: just found kind of a cool tool for getting an overview of pull requests on hacker news https://prs.paas.allizom.org/bookieio/bookie
<brousch> Who is making pull requests on Hacker News?
<mrgoodcat> nobody
<mrgoodcat> i found it on hacker news
<mrgoodcat> i found, on hacker news, a tool
<cmaloney> who's a tool on Hacker News?
<brousch> That's understandable. Hacker News is full of tools
<waf> cmaloney: the hacker. try to keep up.
<cmaloney> wWhat's up?
 * cmaloney can't keep up.
<brousch> cmaloney: They make drugs for that
<waf> brousch++
<cmaloney> brousch: Hook a brother up
<brousch> cmaloney: Already did. Check your spam folder
<cmaloney> kthxbai
<brousch> Damn I'm old
<mrgoodcat> define old
<brousch> These GSoC students could be my kids
<mrgoodcat> lol
<brousch> They were born after I graduated high school
<mrgoodcat> my cousin's nephew graduated high school before he did
<cmaloney> brousch: *cough*
<brousch> cmaloney: They could be your grandkids!
<cmaloney> They are. :)
<cmaloney> every last one of 'em. :)
<jrwren> my cousin's nephew is 87yrs old :p
<brousch> wat?
<jrwren> i'm j/k
<mrgoodcat> i was just trying to figure out that math
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'm sure somewhere in West Virginia that's common place.
<cmaloney> Something about non-euclidian family trees and what-not.
<brousch> No, just an old man marrying and impregnating a young woman
<cmaloney> You make it sound so formal
<cmaloney> business-like
<brousch> Probably is at that age
<cmaloney> It's all fun and games until the lawyers want a cut.
<cmaloney> and a ringside seat
<cmaloney> (notary public)
<jrwren> my daddy uncle says its OK, so it is.
<greg-g> brousch++ "Probably is at that age"
<jrwren> and no, a daddy uncle is not my dad's uncle. :)
<cmaloney> Wow. I just did a search on Twitter for "Core Conversation"
<cmaloney> I suddenly feel dirty all over and a little sick.
<cmaloney> like accidentally touching the floor of a public restroom with my hand.
<brousch> What if you slipped and fell and touched it with your face and lips?
<cmaloney> brousch: Is there fire nearby?
<brousch> No. And the sinks are broken
<greg-g> my car key will do
<greg-g> sepuku
<cmaloney> greg-g: ^^
<brousch> You rode your bike
<greg-g> then it even has a sharper key!
<cmaloney> then I'll strangle myself with my bike lock
<brousch> You didn't lock your bike since you were just going in for a second. The hobo whose piss your face fell in stole it while you were laying there
<cmaloney> I'm riding a bike. I can't be long for this world in any kind of serious traffic.
<cmaloney> brousch: Also: this isn't Grand Rapids. We lock shit up
<brousch> heh
<brousch> Now every time you go in a rest room you will have an irrational fear of slipping
<rick_h_> dammit I'm going to strangle folks. Sometimes it's good we're all remote *grumble*
<jrwren> bwahahahahaha
<jrwren> teamwork is hard. I passed him the ball, he had a wide open shot but he dribbled around for a few seconds and threw up a brick in front of a defender.
<jrwren> #sportsball!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-11
<mathomastech> Anyone here ever use python freeze?
<rick_h_> pip freeze?
<mathomastech> yep
<rick_h_> yep
<mathomastech> Cool. I copied the file into my project directory and ran "python freeze.py main.py" as for the wiki's instructions and nothing happens.
<rick_h_> oh that's different than pip freeze
<mathomastech> really? It was in the /site-packages/pip/commands/freeze.py folder.
<rick_h_> huh?
<rick_h_> ok so you just activate your virtualenv and run 'pip freeze'
<rick_h_> and it outputs all the installed stuff
<mathomastech> I don't have this running in virtualenv.
<rick_h_> ok, so then it'll pull every dep from your system
<mathomastech> I just ran "pip freeze main.py" and the console output the external API's I am using (mysql-connector, pygobject, etc). But no executable files.
<rick_h_> huh? pip freeze just dumps out pip installed deps in a python environment
<rick_h_> you don't pass it another .py file
<mathomastech> https://wiki.python.org/moin/Freeze
<mathomastech> So is that, and what we are talking about 2 different things?
<rick_h_> yes, two different things
<mathomastech> Ok, have you ever use THAT freeze?  :P
<rick_h_> nope
<mathomastech> well, been at it for about 4 hours now trying to figure out how to pack up my program in a windows executable. Tried py2exe, cx-freeze, and pyinstaller with absolutely no success. What am I missing?
<rick_h_> must resist urge....someone on the internet is WRONG! GAHHHH!
<rick_h_> and morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Who is wrong this morning?
<DrDaemonEye> morning cmaloney
<cmaloney> Besides over half the Internet?
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/dwiskus/status/443267270505005056
<rick_h_> cmaloney: ^
<DrDaemonEye> probably the same person that says that all open source software just contains a virus and then proceeds to explain why firefox is better than Internet Explorer.
<rick_h_> besides the mass, the people loading and unloading the plane, the conveyer systesm, the baggage pickup, the issues with scanning/safety checking it all...
<cmaloney> Um...
<rick_h_> yea, checking bags is totally what should be free :/
<cmaloney> Honestly if they could figure out how to send your bags via some other plane (cargo or otherwise) they'd do it in a hearbeat
<cmaloney> Your carry-on is the least of their worries. Making sure everything else matches the best logistics plan is key
<cmaloney> They'd probably charge you by the pound to fly if people wouldn't get up-in-arms about being weighed.
<ColonelPanic001> imagine the market for pre-flight diets, though
<greg-g> they do that in the pacific islands
<greg-g> charge more for heavier people
<jrwren> charge per pound would be awesome.
<mrgoodcat> it would be good incentive to stay in shape
<mrgoodcat> i'd work out if my texas flight at the end of the month was cheaper
<greg-g> also, then my kids' seat would be cheaper...
<mrgoodcat> aren't kids already cheaper on some airlines?
<jrwren> women would be cheaper than men.
<jrwren> and there are more women than men
<mrgoodcat> there would have to be some minimum price too because even the skinniest people still take up a whole seat
<jrwren> so price per pound would have to be high for all those light women.
<jrwren> meaning price for men would be $$$$
<jrwren> and price for overweight men would be $$$$$$$
<mrgoodcat> i think you're overthinking it. you have a 500$ base rate for the seat. then you add a weight penalty that rises logarithmically
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: no, same seat, same price. Unless you mean 'lap kids' who are literally just on your lap (and that's only allowed until 2 years old)
<DrDaemonEye> mrgoodcat: would there be a base weight to go with for that weight penalty?
<greg-g> assume so
<greg-g> $X for the first 170lbs
<DrDaemonEye> I'd say base it off BMI...
<DrDaemonEye> As a 6 foot male is probably going to be over 170.
<mrgoodcat> would someone please mention my nick so i can make sure my hilight is working?
<DrDaemonEye> mrgoodcat:
<mrgoodcat> perfect ty
<DrDaemonEye> not a problem
<brousch> rick_h_: TIL Portland has the most breweries per capita in the USA. Another +1
<cmaloney> brousch: Would you knock it off. :)
<cmaloney> I'm already trying to keep rick_h_ from duck-taping himself to the next plane out.
<cmaloney> Not. Helping.
<brousch> It's nice in GR today. Too bad 5-8" of snow is coming tonight
<cmaloney> Yeha, no kidding
<brousch> Portland: cloudy and 63F tomorrow. Perfect
<rick_h_> yea, 8-12 here. But for the moment have the windows open and the whole house fan on
<rick_h_> fresh air!
<jrwren> i don't want a base weight. I want per pound pricing :p
<mrgoodcat> i have a python project noeww
<mrgoodcat> its mostly useless but it's letting me explore python a little more in depth than project euler did
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: cool
<mrgoodcat> i particularly like the way decorators work
<mathomastech> I've got this old (8yr old) macbook just gathering dust. I'm thinking about giving it a grand farewell before sending it in for recycling. Perhaps a little sudo rm -rf *.
<jrwren> 8yr old? is that G4 still?
<mathomastech> Nope, first generation intel Macbook (black model)
<mathomastech> actually, it's 7 years old. I have trouble with math sometimes :S
<mathomastech> 2007
<mrgoodcat> you can think of better than rm -rf can't you
<mrgoodcat> chmod -x /bin/chmod
<jrwren> that is still a core2duo isn't it? is it really that slow by todays standards?
<mrgoodcat> sudo chmod -R -x /
<greg-g> my main personal laptop is a core2duo
<mathomastech> It is a core2duo. Actually, it's still useful in terms of speed. However the trackpad is on the fritz, the battery is down to about 30-45 minutes (surprising good for a battery that old). And it randomly shuts down with no warning. It's lived a hard life.
<greg-g> (the x200s)
<mathomastech> I upgraded to the 2013 haswell 13 macbook air last year so I really don't have a use for this one anymore.
<jrwren> yes, that is very old for a laptop battery
<mrgoodcat> sudo chown -R root:root / && sudo chmod -R -rwx /
<cmaloney> Send it to me if you really want. ;)
 * cmaloney has a computer museum.
<brousch1> Do not feed his addiction
<cmaloney> feeeeed me Seymour.
<mathomastech> cmaloney: Heh, I do to. I am trying to downsize my museum.
<mathomastech> I also have an old all-in-on mac from I believe the 80's. pre-color monitor era.
<cmaloney> Fat Mac or SE/30?
<mathomastech> Let me check. brb
<cmaloney> Likely a SE30. That was one of the more popular models.
<jrwren> i threw a lisa into a dumpster
<cmaloney> jrwren: WHAT?!?!?!!?!!?!!?!?!?!?!???!?!?!
<cmaloney> I hope that was just to get my attention
<jrwren> as recently as 12yrs ago
<jrwren> yes, it was just to get your attention
<cmaloney> jrwren: Still: That hurts.
<jrwren> 12yrs ago at OU, the CSE unix admin found a dozen or so Lisa in a closet.
<jrwren> someone just stored them, and left them for a decade
<cmaloney> fuuuuuuck
<jrwren> they ran too.
<jrwren> he plugged it in and turned it on and it booted
<cmaloney> That's like one of my holy grails
<jrwren> i figured
<cmaloney> Triggy?
<cmaloney> Twiggy drives, rather?
<jrwren> i've no idea.
<jrwren> I think it was floppy boot.
<cmaloney> Were they beige?
<jrwren> the drives were only the lisa built in IIRC
<jrwren> boxes of floppies along side the lisas
<cmaloney> Yeah, but there were two models
<cmaloney> the Twiggy (short lived) and the 3 1/2"
<cmaloney> Twiggy was a strange 5 1/4" drive
<cmaloney> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e4/Fileware-floppy.jpg
<jrwren> i think it was the 5 1/4", but 12 yrs ago, my memory is not so good.
<jrwren> i know what a 5 1/4" looks like.
<jrwren> i still have drives and disks
<mathomastech> Ok, I've got a Macintosh IIci, and a Macintosh 128k in my basement. There's one more at my parents house that is a late 80's model. One of the earliest computers to use CD's and has a color screen. Can't remember the model name of that one.
<jrwren> with some of my first basic code on them from when I was a kid.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I figured you knew waht the 5 1/4" was. Just wasn't sure if you'd seen the Twiggy variant.
<cmaloney> God, I think you committed genocide. ;)
<cmaloney> mathomastech: Nice!
<cmaloney> IIci was a nice machine.
<cmaloney> underpowered, but that was pretty much par for most Macs
<mathomastech> As far as I know, all three of them still work. Haven't plugged in the 128k in a long time though. I think I played around with the ci and the one at my parents about 3 or 4 years ago and they still worked.
<cmaloney> mathomastech: So, when are you coming back to Michigan? :)
<mathomastech> No plans unfortunately. I do have some cousins in Ann Arbor but they generally travel back to the chicago area where both our families are from for the holidays. I wouln't mind come out at some point. The coffee house coders group I started out here has been pretty slow to start. There is usually just 2 of us, every once in a while a 3rd person that comes.
<akelling> MUG meeting is tonight correct?
<mathomastech> It seems most of the tech jobs are up in the twin cities, or down in Rochester. We are smack in the middle of the 2. Both those locations have really good active tech group. I guess since there aren't as many tech jobs here in Northfield, there aren't as many people in the profession living here. Still trying to get people from the 2 colleges to come though.
<cmaloney> akelling: Yep
<akelling> cool
<cmaloney> mathomastech: Sometimes it just takes time
<mrgoodcat> did we netsplit?
<akelling> man this cough needs to go away
<akelling> was going to go to the meeting tonight but I dont want to be that coughing all night long
<cmaloney> akelling: Ugh. Hope you feel better soon
<akelling> ah its just the weather
<akelling> thanks though cmaloney
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-12
<mrgoodca1> so much netsplit
<rick_h_> yea, no love
<cmaloney> evening
<cmaloney> and all that.
<rick_h_> party
<jrwren> UDS midnight party!
<rick_h_> woot woot
<wolfger> good morning, party people
<wolfger> So what is this I hear about Google dumping Gtk+ for something called Aura? Is Aura used anywhere by anybody?
<rick_h_> morning and no idea about aura
<rick_h_> wooooo! fun driving
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<cmaloney> acc to /. it's Google's own widget library
<cmaloney> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!topic/chromium-dev/Zpu9801pPRc
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I think you're soaking in it already.
<rick_h_> soaking in it?
<cmaloney> It's part of unstable
<rick_h_> oh yea
<cmaloney> which means you've likely already downloaded it
<rick_h_> that explains why there's all the small changes heh
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> I lost things like 'right-click search in google'
<cmaloney> ugh
<rick_h_> reminder CHC is tonight all. Snow or now snow (roads should be cleared by tonight)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: let me know if you need a lift :)
<brousch> It's still snowing here
<rick_h_> yea, supposed to stop by noonish
<rick_h_> at least here
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Heh. Will do. :)
<cmaloney> Might take you up on that, but I need to stop by the library prior to CHC
<rick_h_> oh no, it's so out of our way :P
<cmaloney> hah
<mrgoodcat> 8pm?
<cmaloney> CHC?
<cmaloney> Yep
<mrgoodcat> cool
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: still on to help with that test at chc?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yep
<jcastro> it is snowing sideways here
<brousch> jcastro: Get out of bed and you'll fix that
<rick_h_> yea, winds are supposed to be crazy today
<DrDaemonEye> 15 MPH gusting to 35
<jrwren> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/meeting/22152/server-databases-update/  server database updates!!! <3
<jrwren> bah! I missed hte juju core updates meeting?
<jrwren> i'l watch it.
<brousch> Some of you might be interested in https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/grpug/8gIYwUhc3Es
<jrwren> did they move from Chelsea to GR?
<brousch> No
<brousch> But 2 or 3 of them are in West MI
<jrwren> dude, uvtool is SWEET
<rick_h_> wow, this wind and blowing snow is crazy
<greg-g> it's 64 right now, a high of 75 today
<rick_h_> :P
 * greg-g is wearing shorts
<jrwren> you can't fool me. I know where you live.
<jrwren> i heard the devil wears shorts in hell too!
<greg-g> I live near Kyle R, and have yet to get a beer with him, I still feel bad about that
<jrwren> yeah, its too bad. Kyle is a great guy. tell him I said hi.
<greg-g> will do
<greg-g> I think he commutes every day, so it's the becomes the "align your two family's weekends for some overlap"
<wolfger> It's days like today where I think "my job doesn't make me travel often enough". :-p
 * wolfger could go for some 77 degree weather in Mexico right about now
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> I was just fine with 40 and good cool spring
<rick_h_> though the roads that got exposed below the snow and ice are destroyed this winter
<rick_h_> normally we've got one big pot hole in our rd in front of the house. We've got 5 and one my son could use as a fort
<mrgoodcat> wolfger: i'm gonna be in texas at the end of the month. can't wait
<mrgoodcat> .test
<mrgoodcat> shit wrong channel
<mrgoodcat> sry
<brousch> .tickle
<rick_h_> .tackle
<wolfger> Saw a pic a few minutes ago of a yugo-sized pothole in RO that they are calling a sinkhole.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> yea, going to MUG last night the right lane was almost empty with everyone trying to get left
<rick_h_> so many killer stretches in the right lane
<wolfger> I love my new work-from-home-ability. I have driven further than 2 miles maybe 6 times in the last 7-8 weeks. It's nice.
<akelling> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/03/ubuntu-smartphones-will-cost-200-400/ - hope someone here gets one of these. WOuld like to take a look at it.
<akelling> Carpenter Rd in Ann Arbor is just shot on the right hand lane both ways. I have driven in smoother fields.
<brousch> I'm sure they'll hand them out to all Canonical employees
<jrwren> akelling: you are in ann arbor?!?
<wolfger> The problem with that phone would be the apps... Why would I buy a phone that probably can't run the apps I currently use, and may or may not have suitable equivalencies?
<jrwren> wolfger: that is the same argument folks made about moving off windows.
<akelling> indeed apps wpi;d ne am ossie
<jrwren> we now know that apple has been winning that.
<akelling> would be an issue*
<jrwren> get twitter app and evernote and I'd move.
<akelling> Windows Phone is having a hell of a time breaking into the market and they have a multibillion dollar company pushing it
<jrwren> apple lock in is worse than windows was IMO.  facetime and imessages are very proprietary
<jrwren> windows phone is pretty big outside of the US
<wolfger> bah. I'm talking Android apps, forget Apple
<jrwren> need untapd
<greg-g> heh
<jrwren> android? what is that?
<jrwren> oh icloud, i'm all in with apple. :(
<wolfger> do love my ipad air, but I never would have bought one for myself and I still hate the parts of the iPad that remind me it's an apple product
<jrwren> wolfger: ha!
<jrwren> wolfger: if you had a mac and an iphone that ipad air would work even better!
<wolfger> hehehe
<wolfger> I guess I'll just suffer, then
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: just stumbled on your juju gui client. i have to say it looks quite impressive
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: :)
<mrgoodcat> is that project for work or outside?
<mrgoodcat> as in, is it funded by canonical?
<rick_h_> yea, it's the team I work with
<mrgoodcat> got it
<rick_h_> you mean jujucharms.com right?
<mrgoodcat> yea
<mrgoodcat> is the demo just user interface or is it actually functional?
<rick_h_> so jujucharms.com is a demo, but it's the same software you can deploy into a juju environment to control your real AWS/HPCloud/Azure juju environments
<mrgoodcat> but the demo isn't actually functional. it isn't actually spinning up services right?
<rick_h_> right
<mrgoodcat> ok. at first that didn't click in my brain and i was wondering how much it costs to host a demo of a cluster but then i realized it must be just the UI
<rick_h_> yea, we have a fake mock state backend
<mrgoodcat> how far is it from release?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: how far is what from release?
<mrgoodcat> aren't you trying to get it in the repos?
<rick_h_> oh, that's juju-quickstart
<rick_h_> http://www.jorgecastro.org/2014/01/29/juju-quickstart-coming-along/
<mrgoodcat> i got it. so juju gui is as "released" as its ever getting. easy install with a charm and pretty polished and professional and fully functioning
<mrgoodcat> there isn't any more to release
<gamerchick02> bah. everyone was let off early today. i stayed til 5 because i didn't get in til 10:30
<mrgoodcat> lol staying at work till 5
<mrgoodcat> i've done that like twice this calendar year
<mrgoodcat> mostly because we close up shop at 430 most days
<gamerchick02> well i usually do too but i got in at 10:30
<gamerchick02> had my meeting last night and took me 3 hours to drive from Saginaw
<mrgoodcat> ah
<mrgoodcat> i usually work 9-415 ish
<gamerchick02> wait what
<mrgoodcat> 845-415
<gamerchick02> 7:30 to 4:30...
<gamerchick02> how'd you get awesomesauce hours? :-P
<mrgoodcat> small family owned industrial company
<mrgoodcat> no reason to go there early because most of our customers don't even want to hear from us until after noon
<mrgoodcat> and metalworking industry generally closes up shop early. production goes all night but any decision making departments close down
<mrgoodcat> sales reps are on call 24-7 though on their cell phones since we have customers around the world
<gamerchick02> wow
<gamerchick02> nice
<mrgoodcat> yea
<gamerchick02> Chrysler. we work pretty much 7:30-4:30, some flex early, some flex late.
<mrgoodcat> its not as great as it sounds
<gamerchick02> hah
<gamerchick02> ok
<gamerchick02> and usually if you get your work done it's no big deal if you need to leave early but i did legit have some stuff to do. glad the last assignment came in late (bout 2).
<mrgoodcat> our industry is a very slow moving one
<mrgoodcat> product development goes over the course of decades
<mrgoodcat> so its rare we ever have crisis situations of any kind
<mrgoodcat> we work in industrial coolants and lubricants
<gamerchick02> decades?
<gamerchick02> but coolants and lube is cool. worked with my share of that at school and somewhat at Dow when i was a slave i mean co-op.
<mrgoodcat> yea decades
<mrgoodcat> and our company is considered to be on the forefront
<gamerchick02> our stuff changes weekly so i don't know how i'd handle slow change like that
<mrgoodcat> well i don't work with our chemical products at all. I'm all computers so it's not so bad
<gamerchick02> not too bad at all. :)
<mrgoodcat> we make machines to apply the chemicals in very specific applications and that is actually really engaging
<mrgoodcat> every piece of equipment is custom built to order
<gamerchick02> oooo
<gamerchick02> so that's pretty awesopme
<gamerchick02> awesome even
<mrgoodcat> so yea, short hours
<gamerchick02> do they need a mechanical engineer who's interested in that kinda thing?
<gamerchick02> :-P
<gamerchick02> and where are you located?
<mrgoodcat> some people are there as early as 7 and some as late as 6 but generally most people have short hours
<mrgoodcat> detroit
<gamerchick02> ah
<mrgoodcat> hazel park actually
<gamerchick02> hrm
<gamerchick02> pay well and everyone's direct, no contract workers?
<gamerchick02> the reason i ask is because i'm contract now and i'd like to get direct with a company.
<mrgoodcat> no contract. i'd be surprised if we'd be able to offer a mechanical engineer a job that would be worth taking. nothing really degree worthy. custom built units don't really require much design. just adaptions of existing design
<mrgoodcat> no contract. no union.
<gamerchick02> oh
<gamerchick02> ok
<mrgoodcat> i could ask if you want. my dad and uncle actually own the company
<gamerchick02> ah
<gamerchick02> i've got adhesives experience from Dow Automotive, releasing/CN/BoM/Change Management on steering columns from Delphi (now Nexteer), and vehicle configuration/IT/herding engineers and analysts at Chrysler.
<gamerchick02> also bug reporting at Chrysler on systems that go down all the time. :-P
<mrgoodcat> lots of auto experience
<mrgoodcat> any particular reason so much automotive?
<gamerchick02> yeah. it's kind of a given. graduated from kettering, from MI, it was available.
<mrgoodcat> makes sense
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> cars are big here. :-P
<gamerchick02> i wouldn't mind getting out of it but i don't mind working in it either
<mrgoodcat> time for dinner
<gamerchick02> i just did that. :)
<cmaloney> Howdy.
<gamerchick02> howdy :)
<DrDaemonEye> welcome gamerchick02
<gamerchick02> danke!
<DrDaemonEye> How are you this evening?
<gamerchick02> good
<gamerchick02> tired
<gamerchick02> been a long day
<DrDaemonEye> aww.  I feel ya there
<gamerchick02> i'm going to bed early tonight.
<gamerchick02> had a late one last night
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-13
<DrDaemonEye> Never a bad idea
<DrDaemonEye> I hope for another couple hours of work before I get to sleep.
<gamerchick02> you're working now?
<gamerchick02> we were let off early due to the crappy weather
<DrDaemonEye> Yea.  I am working on some pet projects here at home.
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/MajMalfunction/status/443879099715440640/photo/1
<gamerchick02> cool
<DrDaemonEye> Yea.  Trying to get rsync to work right in crontab and then teach myself a little java
<gamerchick02> lol cmaloney
<gamerchick02> that's awesome
<DrDaemonEye> lol cmaloney
<gamerchick02> yay for pledge breaks
<jrwren> java?
<jrwren> gamerchick02: are you sarah on g+?
<gamerchick02> pbs
<gamerchick02> jrwren i'm Amy H.
<DrDaemonEye> jrwren: yea... I am getting into android dev
<jrwren> oh, nevermind then.
<gamerchick02> https://plus.google.com/+AmyH42/posts
<jrwren> DrDaemonEye: I'm SOOOOoooo sorry
<gamerchick02> nice drdaemoneye
<gamerchick02> pledge break over woo. bbiab at the next one
<DrDaemonEye> jrwren: I also want to go to another uni that sadly prefers java to C++
<jrwren> DrDaemonEye: zomg, WHY!?!?!   c++ > java
<jrwren> atleast good C++
<jrwren> IIRC you can use C++ to write android apps
<jrwren> using the NDK
<DrDaemonEye> jrwren: ask the folks there.  And I agree, C++ > java
<jrwren> oh, nevermind... "parts of your app" in c++ :(
<DrDaemonEye> ah.  :(
<jrwren> if you get fed up with java/dalvik/android ask brouch about python on android
<DrDaemonEye> That I will.
<DrDaemonEye> I am still going to stick with C++, shell scripting, perl, and python for my main dev work though
<rick_h_> INI=test.ini make test_bookie.db
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: ^
<rick_h_> ylolexegy
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: http://nixos.org
<cmaloney> waf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYQUsp-jxDQ&feature=kp
<cmaloney> First I'm hearing this song. :)
<waf> cmaloney: haha, cool.
<waf> reminiscing hard core. i listened to this song way too much in college
<waf> "Despite the esoteric subject of the lyrics, the song was well received by mainstream media, albeit the word bot was frequently mistaken for boat"
<waf> a minor point.
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> nixos is pretty neat, really
<cmaloney> Good morning
<DrDaemonEye> moin cmaloney
<rick_h_> ugh
<cmaloney> rick_h_: /msg chanserv op #bookie rick_h_
<cmaloney> I looked it up, but don't have authority to do ops. :)
<rick_h_> I keep getting 'no such nick or channel trying all of my usernames
<rick_h_> guess it helps if I talk to the right chanserv
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> prime memberships going up
<cmaloney> $99 instead of $79
<cmaloney> still worth it IMHO
<cmaloney> Amazon is my Costco. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, I guess. It does start to reach the point I question a bit. I don't care about the videos or lending books
<rick_h_> it's purely my prepaying for shipping
<cmaloney> Yeah. We use it for videos (Doctor Who)
<cmaloney> and JoDee watched HUnger Games: Catching Fire on Wed.
<cmaloney> So for me it's a wash.
<jrwren> bah! I missed charm school!
<rick_h_> it's friday I thought?
<jrwren> i have nothing on firday.
<jrwren> thursday is last day AFAIK
<jrwren> today is 2014-3-13
<rick_h_> there's a charm school on friday around bundles at 2pm
<rick_h_> not sure what they covered today, but yay for recordings
<jrwren> yes, the recordings have been nice.
<jrwren> err, no i didn't iss it... I keep forgetting DST we are -4 not -5
<jrwren> its NOW :)
<cmaloney> jrwren: heh
<rick_h_> go go go go
<jrwren> CURSED DST! I CURSE THE CURSED DST, CURSES!!!
<cmaloney> You're nicer than I am
<jrwren> i've been watching too much powerpuff girls
<brousch> To get this evaluation: Pay $1100 for training, sign up for an extranet account which will be manually verified within 36 hours, download and install FlexNET license server, activate license on server, download actual product, point it at license server
<brousch> I really hate proprietary software
<cmaloney> brousch: Welcome
<cmaloney> FlexLM was the bane of my existence for many years. And that was one of the better license servers.
<brousch> I just got rid of the one we had for AutoCAD here, not Tekla uses it
<brousch> now
<cmaloney> AutoCAD was one of the worst for needless hoops
<cmaloney> We had a cabinet dedicated to keeping the fucking boxes for the software because we couldn't throw them out.
<brousch> Tekla is making Autodesk look user-friendly and efficient
<cmaloney> Back in the AutoCAD 9 / 10 / 11 days.
<cmaloney> Thing was only rivaled by the Microsoft compiler boxes.
<cmaloney> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2012/02/03/10263262.aspx
<cmaloney> I seem to remember one that was larger than that one, but my Google Fu is escaping me.
<rick_h_> jrwren: how was the school?
<jrwren> nothing new.
<jrwren> still, I like to watch.
<jrwren> it gives me ideas for my cloud management software.
<cmaloney> Afternoon and all that.
<rick_h_> party party
<greg-g> g'morn
<rick_h_> greg-g: howdy
<greg-g> late night performance problem last night made me want to sleep in :)
<cmaloney> Just ordered the 14.04 DVDs
<cmaloney> I need to do a quick update on the stuff going on.
<cmaloney> Missing this month's meeting really threw me off.
<rick_h_> greg-g: so my talk was recorded but not up yet. You'll have to bug waldo for it.
<rick_h_> damn I love GSoC students https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/pull/355 greg-g should like this one
<rick_h_> cmaloney: and jsivak as well ^
<cmaloney> Would have been nice to have an accompanying comment
<cmaloney> but still, that's aweome!
<cmaloney> Took me a sec to realize what I was looking tat.
<rick_h_> yea, need to work on that
<cmaloney> at, even
<rick_h_> but FF import support is what it's for and will be very cool
<cmaloney> Yeah, no doubt.
<rick_h_> with the FF extension it's pure FF parity
<cmaloney> If we can break jsivak off his scrapbook plugin that would be a huge win
<greg-g> interesting
<rick_h_> I've to go through it and it's a big chunk of code
<rick_h_> but still, been sitting around (issue 71 now in the 350 range) for a while
<cmaloney> I'm not sure what will be left for someone to work on. ;l)
<rick_h_> heh yea running out of the lighter work to be honest
<cmaloney> Bookie floor polisher.
<greg-g> that'd be the best gsoc outcome ever
<rick_h_> they've been asking about bugs/issues that are more wishlist where I don't have real firm ideas/plans
<rick_h_> aside from the GSoC tasks themselves
<cmaloney> I think a blue-sky session is in order.
<rick_h_> well, we'll need a sprint at 100k bookmarks :)
<cmaloney> because it's closer than you might think. ;)
<rick_h_> which is right around the corner
<rick_h_> need to get off of whoosh and then can really take some bookmarks from folks
<rick_h_> it's the last thing holding back scaling at the moment
<cmaloney> whoooooooooosolr
<mrgoodcat> installed google chrome unstable and now i get google now notifications on my desktop
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yea
<mrgoodcat> touch screen support is still not working though
<mrgoodcat> i wonder why... works fine in chromeos
<greg-g> elasticsearch!
<greg-g> we're redoing our seach infra in ES from an in-house solution that's been running for years.
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, ES or solr. I don't ahve a dog in the fight between the two
<mrgoodcat> i think es is supposed to be easier to set up
<mrgoodcat> but i've never used either
<greg-g> yeah, much better docs (from what our search team said)
<rick_h_> well solr is in the repos
<rick_h_> and ES is not
<rick_h_> which is a big ease of use thing for me
<mrgoodcat> i can tell you just from looking at the website that they care a lot about user experience
<rick_h_> ES?
<greg-g> ah, yeah, I mean, java in general is a pain to deploy :/
<mrgoodcat> yes
<greg-g> yeah, they do
<rick_h_> greg-g: yep yep yep
<brousch> solr isn't too bad
<mrgoodcat> time 5 class
<slevin> closed - https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/5 - extra space in the tag string generate a tag of " "
<greg-g> nice
<mrgoodcat> oops wrong window...
<mrgoodcat> well it is anyways
<mrgoodcat> if slevin gets too spammy just kick him from the channel
<mrgoodcat> just changed him so you need to put a # before the number
<mrgoodcat> that should calm him down
<mrgoodcat> time 4 class
<mrgoodcat> ok good
<mrgoodcat> bye
<rick_h_> hah, the irc bots are taking over
<rick_h_> see what mrgoodcat  and waf started last night
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: at least this one does something useful
<jrwren> ES is evil.
<jrwren> don't do it
<jrwren> postgresql fulltext FTW!
<jrwren> ES has their own repository
<jrwren> http://packages.elasticsearch.org/logstash/1.3/debian stable main
<jrwren> work with ubuntu just fine since its all JABBA
<greg-g> yeah, we import into our own repo when we like a version/are ready to deal with it
<greg-g> they just hit 1.0 (at 1.0.1 now, I think)
<jrwren> same here :)
<rick_h_> yea, we were trying to debug and all the debug features are only in 1.0 and we're still on 0.9 :/
<greg-g> we made the big jump.... last week?
<greg-g> not having a rollback option is scary
<rick_h_> yea
<greg-g> (they're forward-only db upgrades)
<rick_h_> fortunately we can dump/rebuild our db
<cmaloney> Forward-only with backup or no net at all?
<greg-g> how big is your ES cluster?
<rick_h_> it's all tranient data stored in another location
<rick_h_> greg-g: small :)
<greg-g> not ours ;)
<cmaloney> I thought you could put the whole of Wikipedia on a 128GB SD card or something. ;)
<cmaloney> and still have room left over for Project Gutenberg. ;)
<greg-g> cmaloney: basically no net at all, we didn't have the hardware to have two instances of it
<greg-g> cmaloney: enwiki text only is 40gig compressed
<greg-g> there's 800 wikis
<greg-g> then all the media
<greg-g> ;)
<cmaloney> greg-g: I'm just messing with you. :)
<cmaloney> I know Wikipedia is more than just the text. ;)
<greg-g> but yeah, we had to fail back to the old search infra that we're in the middle of replacing cuz the upgrade had to be done offline (and didn't/don't have enough hardware to have two replicas of the ES cluster, see above)
<jrwren> do you do anything with non-text in ES?
<rick_h_> non-text?
<greg-g> jrwren: not yet
<greg-g> there are ES extensions for it though, I believe
<greg-g> we'll start thinking about that after we build out our new DC
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> your own DC?!?
<greg-g> we do image related things, but it's all text based (ie: ranking things in search based on category that the file is in)
<greg-g> no, sadly
<greg-g> build out our new space in a DC
<jrwren> oh,  a new colo?!?
<jrwren> that makes more sense.
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> we're not there yet ;)
<cmaloney> The greg-g memorial wing
<jrwren> is it traditional colo or is it cloud metal?
<cmaloney> \m/
<greg-g> we rent floor space, and bring in our hardware/racks
<jrwren> ugh.
<jrwren> old school.
<greg-g> hell yeah
<jrwren> i hate that.
<greg-g> we're a bare metal shop
<jrwren> bare metal is cool.
<cmaloney> \m/
<jrwren> wasteful data centers are not
<greg-g> hey guys, watch this
<greg-g> bare metal
<cmaloney> \m/
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> jrwren: how is us building out our own metal to spec, so optimized, wasteful?
 * greg-g doesn't know the nuances of DC-level stuff
<greg-g> if it makes you feel any better, the source of the power for the DC ('green' or not) was part of our rubric
<jrwren> greg-g: that is a great start.
<greg-g> but seriously, what's wrong with buildig out your own section of a floor in a DC?
<jrwren> greg-g: modern cloud data centers don't run traditional AC, some do evaporative cooling on closed racks or closed containers.
<jrwren> greg-g: its a matter of power efficiency. A traditional DC runs at like 10% power officiency.
<greg-g> gotcha
<jrwren> google claims their DC run at 98% power efficiency
<jrwren> google does the whole battery per server thing. so each "server" doesn't even have a power supply.
<greg-g> well, switching to a 'cloud' provider would change how we do everything
<jrwren> i'm not advocating going cloud. its way to expensive once you cross a threshold
<greg-g> and aren't you the one complaining that netflix is giving a portion of their profits directly to amazon? ;)
<jrwren> I'm suggesting that there is a whole in the market which could use filling.
<greg-g> ahh, gotcha
<jrwren> s/whole/hole/
<greg-g> it was funny, some cloud promoter wrote a story about how we'd save so much money if we switched to a cloud provider
<greg-g> only....
<jrwren> i totally agree with jeff atwood. cloud is fucking expensive. coloc your own servers is far, far cheaper.
<greg-g> they used the price we pay for real hardware that runs everything to the number of virtualized servers we have in our "WMF Labs" infra, which is our own OpenStack cluster.
<jrwren> ha! bad estimates.
<greg-g> yeah, it was funny
<greg-g> huh http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-March/075222.html
<rick_h_> matches my experience
<rick_h_> almost GSoCiI
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-14
<mathomastech> The terminal program "screen" was updated on my Raspberry Pi arch a few days ago and now it's causing serious tearing issues. Weechat is entirely unreadable under screen, though perfectly fine if I run it normally. Anyone else notice this on their systems?
<rick_h_> waf: man, you sure you're not ready to try some remote work time? :)
<waf> haha, rough time finding go-nuts?
<waf> seems like "hey wanna program Go and work for canonical?" would be a hell of a hook
<rick_h_> heh, well one guy on my team is going to another team in the company
<rick_h_> so now I've got another hole to fill and I was trying to think of who I knew I'd love to work with. :P
<rick_h_> all this interviewing a bunch of people wastes so much time
<rick_h_> I'm sitting here at 10pm at night trying to setup first and second interviews. Wheeeeee
<waf> ugh, yeah. interviewing is a pain. does canonical do all interviews via hangouts/skype/whatever?
<rick_h_> well it's up to whoever does them but yea. I'm pushing hangouts for everyone
<rick_h_> we use them for our daily stand ups and such so might as well get started now :)
<cmaloney> http://www.kenandrobintalkaboutstuff.com/index.php/episode-80-vulnerable-to-attack-by-panzer-leaders/
<cmaloney> Hm. Wonder if I should take a look at Go. ;)
<cmaloney> Also that link was because Open Metalcast is sponsoring Ken and Robin...
<cmaloney> Also: Good morning
<rick_h_> ugh, good because it's friday
<cmaloney> That good eh?
<brousch> rick_h_: How goes the army?
<rick_h_> brousch: ugh
<rick_h_> which one?
<brousch> Your Indian Bookie Army
<rick_h_> nothing like 14hr work days and getting behind on the Bookie updates
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> they're running out of stuff to do at the moment.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Anything we can do to help out?
<rick_h_> most of the other items are too vague for them to jump into and I don't have the time to flesh out every one of the items
<rick_h_> they need some thought on design and architecture on 'how' to do what the issue says
<brousch> Not enough papercuts to go around
<rick_h_> the paper has been shredded
<rick_h_> if you've got more issues with Bookie that annoy you file them :)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Well, the install process drives me batty. It should be in Django using JQuery.  ;)
<rick_h_> but yea, the small stuff is pretty much out. Anyone wants to QA and do code reviews have at it.
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> fork it and enjoy
<cmaloney> I've got 99 problems and Django ain't one of them.
<brousch> OH yes, reporting a lack of django as an issue
<brousch> cmaloney: That's because Django solves problems. It doesn't create them
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: do you want me to post my logs of the bookie channel?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: if you'd like I'm all for it
<rick_h_> let me know where and I'll add it to the /topic
<mrgoodcat> ok
<mrgoodcat> won't be until after the weekend. i want to change the bot's db driver from sqlite to mysql first
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: all good thanks
<brousch> mrgoodcat: Postgres or go home!
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+aljazeera/posts/Rdf4fozkxgq
<mrgoodcat> brousch: i'm making it accept multiple different options via config file
<mrgoodcat> it's an excercise in learning python so i'm adding unnecessary features like it's my job
<cmaloney> If you want something awesome use SQLAlchemy.
<cmaloney> Takes a little bit to learn but the ORM is amazing and the backend support is top-notch
<mrgoodcat> googling now :)
<mrgoodcat> ty
 * cmaloney will play the part of the customer
<cmaloney> also: please make it blue like the grass.
<mrgoodcat> what
<cmaloney> I want it to feel like pizza.
<mrgoodcat> lol
<cmaloney> gotta run
<mrgoodcat> well i'll just take that idea and roll with it
<cmaloney> ;)
<mrgoodcat> you can change your mind later
<cmaloney> That's the second law of customers
<cmaloney> 1) Customer is always right. 2) Customer is always changing their mind.
<cmaloney> It's like having papal infallibility with none of the other messy bits like consistency.
<mrgoodcat> i've luckily not had a really bad experience with a client yet. but i haven't worked with very many either
<cmaloney> most are fine. It's the ones that don't know what they're doing that are problematic
<cmaloney> That's when you get into serious discussions about semi-colons in the mockups.
<mrgoodcat> the ones that almost know what they're doing seem to be the worst to me
<cmaloney> after which they want to know if you can have the final product within the week.
<mrgoodcat> the ones that don't have a clue defer to your expertise a lot more
<mrgoodcat> at least in my limited experience
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Looking back I think you're more correct.
<mrgoodcat> while i've never had a really bad client though, i still have yet to have a really good one
<cmaloney> The ones that feel they have to know everything are the worst.
<cmaloney> THe really good ones are like Mana from Heaven.
<cmaloney> Hah, I have one single from U2 on my machine
<cmaloney> forgot about this.
<cmaloney> Anyone care to guess?
<brousch> Something about a tree?
<cmaloney> nope
<brousch> Live Aid?
<cmaloney> close
<jrwren> alias pydoc="python -m pydoc"
<brousch> cmaloney: My U2 knowledge is tapped out
<cmaloney> brousch: U2: The Fly
<jrwren> why did I never know about pydoc?
<jrwren> i'll never forgive you pythonista for not sharing it with me.
<brousch> jrwren: It's right there in the docs! Did you not RTFM?
<rick_h_> jrwren: because it's ugly output and shpinx + autodoc works ok
<cmaloney> Don't tell him about help either
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :P
<cmaloney> And dir? Fuggedaboudit.
<cmaloney> aka everything i use in order to navigate Python. ;)
<jrwren> what does shpinx and autodoc look like?
<cmaloney> http://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.3.html
<cmaloney> That's one of the themes for Sphinx
<cmaloney> http://docs.python.org/3/_sources/whatsnew/3.3.txt
<cmaloney> http://sphinx-doc.org/ext/autodoc.html <- Here's autodoc documentation
<cmaloney> It's like Javadocs in some ways (auto-generation of documentation)
<cmaloney> but you have to be more explicit since Python uses duck-typing.
<jrwren> i'm having a bad python day.
<jrwren> its what I get for trying python3 :(
<jrwren> themes?
<jrwren> how do themes work at a console?
<cmaloney> jrwren: I think rick_h_ is saying that he prefers to look at Sphinx docs rather than pydocs.
<rick_h_> +1 and you get the rest of your docs in one place
<rick_h_> vs two different sets of docs with different UI/etc
<jrwren> i don't understand.
<jrwren> does it display at a console?
<jrwren> what do I type at a bash prompt?
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: don't feel bad. i'm trying to learn python right now and the differences between python 2 and 3 are going to give me an ulcer
<rick_h_> jrwren: no, I was thinking just of pydoc html generation of docs
<jrwren> oh pydoc does that too?
<jrwren> i'm thinking of pydoc as in perldoc.
<jrwren> when I did a lot of perl, I lived in perldoc.
<jrwren> when i moved to python, I always missed perldoc
<jrwren> now I know that pydoc was always there, calling me from a distant bash prompt, but I could not hear her.
<rick_h_> jrwren: I'm sorry, very tired friday. I'm thinking of epydoc
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: What's the difficulty? A good number of things got backported afaik.
<rick_h_> http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/
<jrwren> rick_h_: management got your brain fried?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yow, that takes me back to Javadocs.
<cmaloney> Frame hell.
<rick_h_> I was emailing at 11pm last night setting up interviews and such
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: it has more to do with the fact that almost every tutorial/stackoverflow/documentation/etc was written for python 2
<rick_h_> jrwren: so if you know of any superstars that want to work on my team let me know :)
<jrwren> oh god, anytime I see docs styled like that, I want to kill.
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: So learn Python 2. :)
<mrgoodcat> so for a  beginner who still needs those tutorials and such it's difficult to learn python 3
<mrgoodcat> my bot is python 2
<rick_h_> jrwren: right, thus my confusion on how you found a wonderful thing this morning :)
<jrwren> rick_h_: good lord! every canonical team is hiring it seems :)
<mrgoodcat> i decided it's easier to learn python2 then learn the changes for 3 later
<rick_h_> jrwren: yes, I'm trying to fill a team of 5 plus replace someone on my own team right now
<mrgoodcat> it will be a good excercise to port my bot to 3 anyways
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about Python 3 at the moment. Get the foundations first.
<jrwren> rick_h_: all juju gui?
<cmaloney> Yeah, agreed
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: ^
<rick_h_> jrwren: juju ui engineering
<rick_h_> jrwren: new team is mostly go, little python and js front end
<jrwren> rick_h_: how many people work for canonical? how many engineers?
<rick_h_> jrwren: hmm, most juju sprints are 150ish? probably around 180 on juju ish stuff. Say 400 maybe?
<rick_h_> I dont' honestly know right now and it's hard to define outside of my own folks I work with
<rick_h_> sales engineers count? on site client engineers?
<jrwren> rick_h_: 150 people on juju?!?
<rick_h_> well that was the sprint, so sales folks and server folks and...
<jrwren> ok.
<jrwren> so... that is all of canonical then, not just juju?
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: it can hardly be a surprise. juju is a major piece of the ubuntu cloud market which is where the money is
<rick_h_> well it's the non-phone/etc side of canonical?
<jrwren> sounds sized very similar to Arbor :)
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: if you say so. we aren't privy to the private companies financials.
<mrgoodcat> no we aren't. but it seems obvious to me that the best way to monetize ubuntu is through server/enterprise
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: that didn't work very well for anyone, cept maybe redhat.
<mrgoodcat> unless i'm missing some part of the big picture on the desktop which could make money
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: i'm not interested in speculation of revenue source.
<jrwren> If anyone has real numbers they can share, then I'm very interested :)
<cmaloney> qq: Wht is the new hotness for Ruby RVM?
<mrgoodcat> i doubt any will be forthcoming. i noticed our in channel canonical employee has been silent and i think that's probably not an accident
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: hint: there are often more than 1. :)
<mrgoodcat> rvm isn't new hotness
<cmaloney> desktop is pretty much dead
<cmaloney> I mean what replaced rvm
<mrgoodcat> chruby and rbenv
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: tx.
<mrgoodcat> chruby is the cool kid right now
<mrgoodcat> all my ruby friends use chruby on their MBPs while sipping 20$ lattes
<jrwren> hahahaha
<jrwren> well said.
<mrgoodcat> i saw a really funny piece of satire about ruby people that advertised chruby as having better retina support than rbenv and rvm
<mrgoodcat> my google fu is failing me right now though
<cmaloney> chruby looks like a winner
<cmaloney> not a fan of something messing with my .profile
<mrgoodcat> speaking of trendy software anybody that hasn't seen http://html9responsiveboilerstrapjs.com/ is really missing out
<brousch> How do I install this? Um... are you stupid or something? Just attackclone the grit repo pushmerge, then rubygem the lymphnode js shawarma module â and presto!
<mrgoodcat> "It's also cross-universe compatible"
<brousch> lymphnode js must exist
<mrgoodcat> the best part is that there is actually a github repo. the issues reported are great
<mrgoodcat> If you do not rollback commit c07825d I will kill myself and everybody in my workplace.
<brousch> Heh, the js is checked in minified
<mrgoodcat> https://github.com/impressivewebs/HTML9-Responsive-Boilerstrap-js/pull/75
<mrgoodcat> support for monochrome atm displays
<mrgoodcat> just laughed out loud at work. now everybody know's i'm not doing real work.
<brousch> mrgoodcat: Claim you were checking someone's code
<rick_h_> and they used a goto
<mrgoodcat> it was so bad i laughed?
<rick_h_> see ^
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> i was doing a code review for class last week and my "peer" used a "while(false)" to make a section of code not run because he didn't know how to multiline comment
<mrgoodcat> i use the term "peer" in the absolutely loosest possible definition of the term
<mathomastech> I was just cleaning up some python code and noticed several global variables left over from when I was experimenting. I feel so dirty :(
<mrgoodcat> is there a utility to automatically check for imports you no longer need?
<brousch> mrgoodcat: Some IDEs do it, like KomodoEdit
<mrgoodcat> hmmm
<mrgoodcat> i'm not really interested in IDEs in general...
<mrgoodcat> especially when i'm learning a new language. it's amazing to me how many people in my classes can't even write a proper main method declaration in java without an IDE
<mrgoodcat> people in my class will debate the advantages of binary search trees but can't make a simple hello world program without their precious eclipse
<brousch> Java without an IDE?! You ask the impossible!
<mrgoodcat> i code my assignments in vim or sublime depending on my mood at the time
<brousch> I'm going to be sick
<mrgoodcat> i'm half rubyish so tools that are pretty will always seem attractive to me regardless of their functionality
<greg-g> at least you admit it
<mrgoodcat> yea. i sometimes have to actively evaluate my thought process when making such descisions to make sure i'm not using something purely because its "cool"
<greg-g> good on ya
<greg-g> seriously
<greg-g> luckily, my immediate coworkers are pretty good about that... the rest of the WMF? sometimes not :)
<greg-g> (WMF == Wikimedia Foundation, if that isn't clear)
<greg-g> 'course, my coworkers are basically the sepcial ops team of the org.
<mrgoodcat> i use vim for most things but sublime does have some OOTB features that make it useful in some situations. in java specifically i particularly enjoy it's ability to immediately jump to the function declaration even if it is in another file
<greg-g> you break something you can't fix? we get called in.
<mrgoodcat> you work for wikimedia?
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Greg_%28WMF%29 == me
<mrgoodcat> thats even cooler than working for canonical. sry rick_h_
<greg-g> :)
<mrgoodcat> mediawiki is php tho...
<mrgoodcat> not to say it's impossible to write php code, but i havent seen a hell of a lot of good php code
<greg-g> it was started in 2001
<mrgoodcat> s/write/write\ good/
<greg-g> we need to do some re-architecting (it's a bit 'ball of mud' right now)
<greg-g> we're moving to a service oriented arch
<mrgoodcat> the lanugage itself seems to actively promote spaghetti code
<greg-g> the new parsing backend is a nodejs thing
<mrgoodcat> not sure if it's the language itself or just the fact that every newb thinks they are a php coder
<greg-g> it's probably historical
<greg-g> I mean, one of our devs (been here since near the beginning) is a php committer, I believe, and he writes good code
<mrgoodcat> people like this kid http://www.michaelbromley.co.uk/blog/65/confessions-of-an-intermediate-programmer
<mrgoodcat> bit of a long article but i think he represents a large subset of new programmers
<mrgoodcat> when i read that article it made me look back at my own history and laugh at the similarities
<mrgoodcat> i'm sure in 5 years if i look back at right now i'll say the same thing too
<mrgoodcat> programming is sort of "the more you know, the more you realize how little you actually know"
<cmaloney> Very rarely does anyone who self-appoints themselves as a magnificent programmer really pan out
<mrgoodcat> i'm always hoping for the eureka moment where i realise all of the missing pieces and graduate to "master programmer" status. but in the back of my mind I think the people i consider to be "master" class probably have the same problem.
<cmaloney> I find programming to be close to enlightenment
<cmaloney> the only time you truly find enlightenment is when you stop trying to attain it
<greg-g> ohhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<cmaloney> (thinking more of a Zen Buddhism perspective as I'm not familiar with most of the other paths)
<cmaloney> (and more the soto school, and my mishmashed reading of other texts)
<cmaloney> http://2014.penguicon.org/programming/
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: hah, no apologies needed on my account :P
<mrgoodcat> relevant xkcd > https://xkcd.com/1238/
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: what they said. A true master programmers knows nothing.
<jrwren> a true master programmer questions everything.
<mrgoodcat> stupid character encodings crashed my bot at 9 am and i didn't notice
<mrgoodcat> cmalone pasted \xe2\x80\x93
<mrgoodcat> anybody know how to make it so sqlite can handle unicode strings?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: check out bookie, it does it
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: by bookie does it do you mean sqlalchemy does it?
<mrgoodcat> or is there code specifically for this in bookie?
<rick_h_> yea, SqlA and it's column defs
<mrgoodcat> you talking about this? https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/models/__init__.py#L259
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yea
<rick_h_> SqlAlchemy handles it for me
<rick_h_> but you can query the db for the table definitions in your local bookie.db and see what it's doing
<rick_h_> maybe compare, etc
<rick_h_> was more my point
<mrgoodcat> this is the hack i came up with http://hastebin.com/bakotafusi.py
<mrgoodcat> i'm switching to sqlalchemy though
<mrgoodcat> test ï¿½ï¿½
<jrwren> yup, having a bad python day... after python3 challenges, I ran into python2 challenges when apple changed clang and now the flags that ptyhon was built with don't work, so compiling extensions fails. :(
<mrgoodcat> aha working unicode
<mrgoodcat> well. working stupid characters i don't care about anyways
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: on a mac?
<jrwren> yup, a mac.
<jrwren> someday, I'll learn python3 :)
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: If Unicode crashes your stuff you have bigger problems. ;)
<mrgoodcat> not unicode
<mrgoodcat> that's not what i meant
<cmaloney> I might accidentally post that you need to check out ÐÐ¾ÑÐ»ÐµÐ´Ð½ÑÑ Ð¿ÐµÑÐ½Ñ ÑÐ²Ð¾ÐµÐ¹ Ð¼ÐµÑÑÑ by Grey Heaven Fall from Grey Heaven Fall â Ð¡ÐµÑÑÐµ Ð½ÐµÐ±ÐµÑÐ° Ð¾ÑÐµÐ½Ð¸ 2008 (Demo)
<mrgoodcat> worked fine
<mrgoodcat> .reflect ÐÐ¾ÑÐ»ÐµÐ´Ð½ÑÑ Ð¿ÐµÑÐ½Ñ ÑÐ²Ð¾ÐµÐ¹ Ð¼ÐµÑÑÑ
<cmaloney> ;)
<mrgoodcat> hrm... well it didn't crash
<mrgoodcat> .reflect still on
<slevin> still on
<cmaloney> .reflect http://www.jamendo.com/album/124706/
<slevin> http://www.jamendo.com/album/124706/
<cmaloney> .reflect  Escondida en ti by Sadai from 6DÃAS
<mrgoodcat> reflect is a useless command
<greg-g> slevin hi
<mrgoodcat> areflect test
<slevin> test
<mrgoodcat> shit
<greg-g> slevin: help
<greg-g> !help
<cmaloney> .help
<mrgoodcat> lol help
<greg-g> .help
<cmaloney> .weather
<mrgoodcat> you think i document shit?
<mrgoodcat> .list
<slevin> func list pull reflect relist sleep
<greg-g> .sleep
<greg-g> .sleep 10
<cmaloney> .weirsedfsdcvisudfoasdfuasdfoiasdvoaisdufasdfoiausdfoiasdfoiasdufoiasudf
<slevin> slept ten seconds
<greg-g> .sleep what the ef
<slevin> slept ten seconds
<greg-g> hah
<mrgoodcat> sleep always goes 10 seconds
<slevin> slept ten seconds
<greg-g> .pull my finger
<mrgoodcat> i wrote that to test multithreading
<mrgoodcat> .sleep
<mrgoodcat> .reflect still listening
<slevin> still listening
<slevin> slept ten seconds
<cmaloney> .http://local/host
<greg-g> so, what's it do? ;)
<mrgoodcat> pull updates his local copy of bookie
<mrgoodcat> .func auth
<slevin> ./tests/test_webviews/test_webviews.py:59 - def test_import_auth_failed(self):
<slevin> ./tests/test_api/test_base_api.py:260 - def test_bookmark_diff_user_authed(self):
<slevin> ./tests/test_api/test_base_api.py:569 - def user_bookmark_count_authorization(self):
<slevin> ./models/auth.py:178 - def auth_groupfinder(userid, request):
<slevin> ./lib/access.py:245 - def is_json_auth_request(request):
<mrgoodcat> .func ^auth
<slevin> ./models/auth.py:178 - def auth_groupfinder(userid, request):
<mrgoodcat> searches for function definitions
<greg-g> huh
<mrgoodcat> i didn't feel like scrolling up to find the import statements and grepping files to find the function definitions
<mrgoodcat> its like the only useful thing he does
<mrgoodcat> also he'll check on an issue for you #234
<slevin> open - non-activated accounts should be cleaned up occassionally - https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/234
<cmaloney> #666
<mrgoodcat> there isn't a 666 yet
 * cmaloney delights in trying to crash things.
<mrgoodcat> feel free
<mrgoodcat> i'm doing it as a learning excercise anyways
<cmaloney> #foo
<mrgoodcat> the regex is a little more robust than that
<mrgoodcat> come on
<cmaloney> #4594g
<cmaloney> #\x66
<cmaloney> #066
<slevin> closed - add the ?text=XXX for the logo font - https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/66
<cmaloney> #06674
<cmaloney> #0i88
<cmaloney> #088
<slevin> open - update api to provide stats information - https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/88
<mrgoodcat> i was playing with the github api trying to make it notify the bot when commits happen or issues change status
<mrgoodcat> so i could store function definitions in a key value store instead of regexing the raw files every time .func is called
<greg-g> #\\8
<greg-g> #"8"
<greg-g> #'8'
<greg-g> #\8
<cmaloney> #?88
<cmaloney> #>88
<greg-g> .func *
<slevin> More than 5 matches.
<cmaloney> #88">
<greg-g> #8"
<mrgoodcat> its such a simple regex. you won't beat it. it splits the string by " " then uses re.match(r".*(\d+)", str)
<greg-g> just give us time
<greg-g> :P
<cmaloney> # 88
<mrgoodcat> re.match(r"#(\d+)", str)
<mrgoodcat> rather
<greg-g> right
<cmaloney> #88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
<greg-g> #8 8 8
<slevin> closed - Add footer with links to bmark.us, etc - https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/8
<greg-g> #8 #8 #8
<slevin> closed - Add footer with links to bmark.us, etc - https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/8
<cmaloney> #8 8
<slevin> closed - Add footer with links to bmark.us, etc - https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/8
<greg-g> #8 #8 #9
<slevin> closed - Add footer with links to bmark.us, etc - https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/8
<greg-g> #8 #10 #9
<slevin> closed - Add footer with links to bmark.us, etc - https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/8
<cmaloney> ########
<greg-g> ##########8
<cmaloney> #8#
<mrgoodcat> interesting idea for a feature...
<mrgoodcat> #8 #9
<slevin> closed - Add footer with links to bmark.us, etc - https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/8
<mrgoodcat> hmm
<greg-g> #8,9 would be easier
<greg-g> or do both
<greg-g> # # #8
<slevin> closed - Add footer with links to bmark.us, etc - https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/8
<mrgoodcat> the idea is #8 can be mentioned anywhere in the string
<slevin> closed - Add footer with links to bmark.us, etc - https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/8
<cmaloney> #.01
<cmaloney> #\x32
<mrgoodcat> prefix: cmaloney!~snap-l@sourceforge/alumni/cmaloney
<mrgoodcat> command: PRIVMSG
<mrgoodcat> args: [u'#ubuntu-us-mi', u'#\\x32\r\n']
<mrgoodcat> thats what he saw
<cmaloney> Bah, OK, time to go back to real work.
<mrgoodcat> he escapes everything
<mrgoodcat> .reflect ÐÐ¾ÑÐ»ÐµÐ´Ð½ÑÑ Ð¿ÐµÑÐ½Ñ ÑÐ²Ð¾ÐµÐ¹ Ð¼ÐµÑÑÑ
<cmaloney> #\\\\\\\\\
<cmaloney> #\ \ \ \ \  \  \ \ \  \ \  \\ \\ \  \  \\ \
<cmaloney> #$
<cmaloney> #ï¿½
<mrgoodcat> im going to restart him real quick
<mrgoodcat> .reflect ÐÐ¾ÑÐ»ÐµÐ´Ð½ÑÑ Ð¿ÐµÑÐ½Ñ ÑÐ²Ð¾ÐµÐ¹ Ð¼ÐµÑÑÑ
<slevin> ÐÐ¾ÑÐ»ÐµÐ´Ð½ÑÑ Ð¿ÐµÑÐ½Ñ ÑÐ²Ð¾ÐµÐ¹ Ð¼ÐµÑÑÑ
<mrgoodcat> aha
<cmaloney> #ï¿½
<cmaloney> .reflect ï¿½
<slevin> ï¿½
<widox> what the heck, its like a cat sitting on a keyboard in here
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> widox: missed you too
<widox> ;)
<cmaloney> .reflect \/quit
<slevin> \/quit
<mrgoodcat> they're trying to break slevin
<greg-g> .relect \quit
<greg-g> .relect /quit
<cmaloney> .reflect ï¿½/quit
<slevin> ï¿½/quit
<greg-g> .relect "/"quit
<cmaloney> missing f
<greg-g> gah!
<greg-g> .reflect "/"quit
<slevin> "/"quit
<greg-g> .reflect //quit
<slevin> //quit
<cmaloney> .reflect
<greg-g> .reflect /quit
<slevin> /quit
<greg-g> .reflect \quit
<slevin> \quit
<cmaloney> reflect \n/quit
<greg-g>  /quit
<greg-g> how did 14:33 <    slevin> /quit not quit?
<greg-g> .reflect /part
<slevin> /part
<greg-g> .reflect /join #test
<slevin> /join #test
<greg-g> slevin: empty char in front?
<mrgoodcat> github.com/dyladan/slevin.git
<mrgoodcat> .reflect ï¿½/quit
<slevin> ï¿½/quit
<mrgoodcat> if you'd like to try an sql injection i'll even tell you the table he stores in is called ircfreenodenet and the fields are (datetime utc, string chan, string nick, string msg)
<mrgoodcat> i don't really care if you wipe the db
<brousch> What are you idgits doing?
<mrgoodcat> what?
<mrgoodcat> they're trying to break the bot i wrote
<mrgoodcat> it's my first python project ever so i'd say it's holding up like a champ
<brousch> Did they delete your HD yet?
<mrgoodcat> 7 days ago i'd never used a line of python
<mrgoodcat> lol no
<mrgoodcat> the bot runs in a docker container anyways so good luck with that
<mrgoodcat> they could dump the db but i doubt its possible without a 0 day in sqlite3; in which case, it isn't my problem.
<mrgoodcat> .reflect hi
<slevin> hi
<mrgoodcat> areflect hi
<brousch> slevin: Welcome!
<mrgoodcat> you do realize he is the bot right?...
<brousch> He needs a more botlike name
<greg-g> like "brousch"
<brousch> mrgoodbot
<greg-g> that's a good one
<mrgoodcat> .reflect test
<mrgoodbot> test
<greg-g> that's not going to get confusing ;)
<mrgoodcat> lol
<brousch> .reflect bite me greg-g
<mrgoodbot> bite me greg-g
<mrgoodcat> better?
<mrgoodcat> .reflect hi
<bookiebot> hi
<greg-g> more clear on purpose, yeah ;)
<mrgoodcat> mostly i just pm him when i need him
<brousch> It should be .echo, not .reflect
<mrgoodcat> .echo hi
<mrgoodcat> .echo hi
<bookiebot> hi
<mrgoodcat> have to be careful because function names cannot be already defined functions in python
<mrgoodcat> i'm thinking about giving function names cmd prefixes to make sure they don't pollute the namespace
<brousch> yes
<brousch> cmd_echo
<mrgoodcat> workin on it
<brousch> greg-g is winter http://i.imgur.com/MbsUrAz.jpg
<brousch> in winter
<greg-g> brousch: I wore these while in Michigan 2 weeks ago: http://www.softstarshoes.com/adult-shoes/adult-dash-runamoc-chocolate-burgundy-with-bullhide-sole.html
<greg-g> better than vibrams. SoftStar are made in the USA by people being paid a fair wage ;)
<mrgoodcat> .list
<bookiebot> echo func list pull relist sleep
<cmaloney> Too bad they're not made by people who aren't colorblind. ;)
<mrgoodcat> done
<brousch> Needs a help
<brousch> .func
<greg-g> cmaloney: I designed my own, not those colors ;)
<cmaloney> http://www.softstarshoes.com/dyo-adult-dash-runamoc.html <- so muuch better.
<brousch> $109?! There's only half a shoe there!
<brousch> cmaloney: That's a bowling shoe
<greg-g> it pains americans to pay for things not made by slaves
<cmaloney> I don't have a problem paying for shoes.
<cmaloney> I usually do so every so often
<brousch> It is painful when I can go to Meijer and get a nice pair of shoes for $50
<greg-g> right, ethics and morals aren't easy
<greg-g> s/easy/always cheaper/
<brousch> I don't even shop at Walmart!
<cmaloney> Problem is they don't make my shoes anymore
<greg-g> brousch: good first step
<cmaloney> used to get the Bass Earth shoes
<greg-g> now look at what you buy
<brousch> I'm not going to pay $20 for a pair of artisinal undies
<mrgoodcat> what you buy is more important than where you buy it
<greg-g> that ^
<brousch> I buy New Balance because they fit well and last long
<greg-g> but are bad for your feet :P
<mrgoodcat> if you ignore where products are sourced, wal-mart still destroys mom and pop shops though
<brousch> My feet don't hurt when I wear them
<brousch> PArt of the fit well
<mrgoodcat> i wear keen hiking boots as my regular shoes
<mrgoodcat> and vibram 5 fingers for running
<brousch> I feel like I'm in Portlandia
<mrgoodcat> y?
<brousch> What can you tell me about the cow those artisinal running shows came from? Was it free range? Did it live a good, fulfilling life?
<cmaloney> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/coffeehousecoders/eztTxLlzGLg/Ov4G6rSBx9IJ
<cmaloney> Speaking of labor.
<greg-g> wanting the world to be a better place is obviously unamerican
<greg-g> or maybe talking with strawmen isn't helpful?
<cmaloney> strawfolk
<greg-g> cmaloney++
<brousch> I really did lol at strawfolk
<greg-g> I giggled
<greg-g> more than a heh, less than a real laugh
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> greg-g: zomg! vibrams are slave shoes?!?
<greg-g> jrwren: :P
<greg-g> where are they made?
<greg-g> I assumed China or similar
<mrgoodcat> time to go home
<mrgoodcat> vibram has production in italy, japan, north america, china, and brazil
<brousch> mrgoodcat: Go home and think about how your shoes are killing chinese children
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: interesting mix
<mrgoodcat> hahaha
<mrgoodcat> i'm going to go running in them right now
<mrgoodcat> actually not right now
<mrgoodcat> because i'm going up north
<mrgoodcat> but later
<mrgoodcat> peace
<greg-g> enjoy
<cmaloney> laterness
<mrgoodcat> .func
<mrgoodcat> crap
<wolfger> Who's got the func? Gotta have that func!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-15
<cmaloney> Heeeeeeello
<rick_h_> party party
<rick_h_> patches patches patches...test those patches patches...open source
<rick_h_> greg-g: tickets bought for aug 22 to 30th
<mathomastech> Hey, I am spent the better part of 15 hours over the last week attempting to compile my python program into a windows executable file. Google has run out of new suggestions for me to try. If anyone has any experience doing this, would you be willing to spend some time in a Google Hangout to take a look? I am thuroughly stumped at this point.
<tony-smlr> SMLR E121 LIVE Video: http://youtu.be/0iAIzQ45tXo Audio http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming (3/15/2014 7:15AM EDT)
<tony-smlr> we are also chatting in #smlr
<cmaloney> Good morning
<wolfger> It's some kind of morning, that's for sure....
<wolfger> well.... afternoon, now
<brousch> Geeker rick_h_
<brousch> We were in the same building at the same time for probably 3 hours, but he didn't tell me he was in GR
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, surprised we missed you. We were there form 10:30am through 1:30/2
<brousch> Crazy. We were there from 9:30 - 1:30
<mrgoodcat> .func
<mrgoodcat> l
<mrgoodcat> .func
<mrgoodcat> l
<mrgoodcat> .func
<bookiebot> help
<mrgoodcat> test
<wolfger> play that func-y music, mrgoodcat
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-16
<cmaloney> Howdy
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> :)
<cmaloney> That Good eh?
<rick_h_> production server goes boom, no one around, announcement and blog posts on Monday :)
<rick_h_> pretty good
<cmaloney> Oh, nice!
<rick_h_> sitting here with the laptop trying to run queries and lessons from the elastic search docs and books I just bought to hit my dev instance and figureout how things work enough to debug prod without access to prod
<cmaloney> heylo
<jrwren> good afternoon
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> jrwren: need help finding a good anniversary dinner place in downtown AA this next weekend
<rick_h_> jrwren: any suggestions for great food/wine?
<brousch> WhyAA?
<brousch> My vote: http://www.muer.com/gandy-dancer/
<rick_h_> brousch: wife and I have a baby sitter and it's close, nice, some walkable downtown, etc
<brousch> That one is outside of downtown
<cmaloney> Phew
<jrwren> rick_h_: I'd get the tasting at Logan
<jrwren> rick_h_: or, just go to the chophouse, you can't really go wrong there.
<rick_h_> jrwren: wine tasking?
<jrwren> rick_h_: for something lighter, Mani or Insalita are both awesome.
<rick_h_> tasting?
<jrwren> rick_h_: no, its the chef's tasting menu
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<jrwren> The sommelier at chophouse is great.
<jrwren> but I also think wine is bullshit :)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> k, will look into those
<jrwren> if you are looking for very fine and fancy then gandy dancer or chophouse are the AA togo places.
<jrwren> I've never been to gandy.
<jrwren> chophouse i've been to many times, it does not disappoint.
<rick_h_> just nice/good for 8yr anniv
<rick_h_> cool
<greg-g> what about the grange?
<jrwren> just nice/good? I'd totally skip that fancy stuff and hit up insalita or mani
<jrwren> I've heard good things about grange.
<greg-g> I liked it
<rick_h_> location is important to make an evening of it
<greg-g> rick_h_: grange is downtown
<rick_h_> something in downtown, walkable to other stuff. Maybe some coffee, etc
<jrwren> this is all downtown.
<greg-g> ah
<rick_h_> k
<jrwren> insalita is "mexican street food", but its oh so oh so oh so good.
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> zomg, I'm getting hungry and i just ate dinner.
<rick_h_> but brousch hooked us up so well for GR that we figured we should ask people for stuff at locations they live out at more often :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: will be hit up soon!
<jrwren> The ceviche tacos were amazing, as was the lobster enchelada
<rick_h_> greg-g: we found a wine train that will take the little guy. We're debating hard
<rick_h_> jrwren: oh, that's nice. I've not had any good mexican in a while
<jrwren> this is nothing like any mexican i'd ever had.
<jrwren> its fancy panced up mexican.
<jrwren> its all small plates, so order like 4-6 plates and drinks.
<greg-g> rick_h_: oh man
<brousch> Did you enjoy the butterflies? We haven't gone yet this year
<rick_h_> hah, might be worth a try
<greg-g> wine train
<cmaloney> That's called Tapas
<jrwren> and its... oh man...
<brousch> jrwren: tapas?
<jrwren> cmaloney: in Spain!
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, great time. The boy loved it. Saw the horse, boy was upset he couldn't ride it
<jrwren> cmaloney is dead on right. Its a tapas place.
<brousch> Ah good. I wasn't sure if it was all open due to snow
<cmaloney> In Mexico, similar dishes are called "botanas."
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapas
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea it's funny. My wife is like "I'd not pay $100 for him to ride the wine train" and I asked her if she'd pay $150 for each of us?
<rick_h_> "well sure"
<rick_h_> so we're set then :)
<greg-g> hah
<rick_h_> I love my wife sometimes. All the tricks to get her to agree to things hehe
<rick_h_> brousch: but yea great day. So tired when we got home.
<rick_h_> Hit up this little deli on market street by the museum for lunch. All worked out great
<rick_h_> parking sucked though, the thing filled 4 cars in front of us and we had to go back across the bridge and paid $15 for a 4hr session :/
<jrwren> what is that tapas place in GR? that place was good too.
<cmaloney> GRapas
<jrwren> I remember the scalops in particular being very good
<brousch> yuck
<brousch> jrwren: San Chez Bistro
<jrwren> yes. GOOD
<jrwren> you don't likes?
<brousch> One of the regular meeting places is on the 3rd floor above it
<brousch> I like San Chez. I was yucking rick_h_ 's parking woes
<jrwren> ah!
<brousch> I was kind of disappointed in the exhibit. It's attracting much bigger crowds than it deserves. But with the donos there I guess it makes sense
<brousch> dinos
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, I thought the same. It was kind of meh
<rick_h_> but the kids loved it enough that you just go for them
<rick_h_> and gaves the parents talking time
<rick_h_> figured it must be so busy becuse with the cold/snow they're not taking their kids to parks much or anything
<brousch> Did you go to the dino exhibit?
<brousch> Those are impressive, but they have been making the rounds for a while now
<rick_h_> yea, we did the dinos, the carosel, got tickets to do the planetarium but missed the time
<brousch> Heh, that always happens with the planetarium
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-09
<rick_h_> evening
<gamerchick02> hello from humboldt, rich_h_
<gamerchick02> ack. his dell xps 13.
<gamerchick02> now mine. just gotta do a couple more things on it!!
<gamerchick02> i'll need to pay you this week, rick_h_. and oh that note i'm going to bed soon!!
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: rgr, just paypal rharding@mitechie.com if you get time
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: awesome, glad it seems you're liking having it around as a good ole ubuntu machine :)
<gamerchick02> probably tomorrow night. i need to hit the hay right now. i be-ith tired
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: np, night
<gamerchick02> seems to all work. i just have the bios thing and something about "not booting securely" but i'll fix that this week! night!
<mrgoodcat> http://tromp.github.io/go/legal.html
<rick_h_> morning
<mrgoodcat> morning to you as well
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> Also: screw DST
<cmaloney> I was going to tell greg-g that his site is down but apparently he knows.
<cmaloney> since he's not in IRC.
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> he doesn't know because he's sleeping
<cmaloney> Likely
<cmaloney> Getting up this morning was kind of tough
<cmaloney> though it didn't help that the furnace decided not to kick off
<cmaloney> Stupid thermostat needs replacing
<rick_h_> hey, at least it's warmer :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, but the cat was extra-glued to us
<cmaloney> Wow, I've never felt better about getting a Pebble than after the Apple Watch event. :)
<brousch> heh
<brousch> I enjoy my LG G
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> moto steel ftw :P
<cmaloney> Pretty much anything at this point
<cmaloney> Apple really misses Steve Jobs
<cmaloney> I miss Steve Jobs at the helm of Apple
<brousch> I've had many people ask if I'm getting one of those new smartwatches. I have to explain that I've had one since xmas
<jrwren> i tell them I want something that never requires battery replacement or charging.
<cmaloney> Although the new Macbook is pretty awesome.
<cmaloney> Though not sure about the reflective Apple Logo
<jrwren> bling!
<brousch> It's not been a problem with the LG G. I generally have 30-40% power left when I put it on the charger each night
<cmaloney> Bling is not the way to sell me on something
<greg-g> but it is for the masses!
<brousch> cmaloney: That's why you're not an apphole
<jrwren> charger at night? why would I take it off. sleep in it!
<greg-g> our Dir of UX was watching the live update page on apple.com this morning during a special long meeting we had today
<jrwren> if you missed it, i accept nothing short of an automatic.
<jrwren> the event today inspired me to put a detroit watch co watch on my amazon wish list :)
<cmaloney> I sleep with my watch
<cmaloney> I don't shower with it though
<cmaloney> jrwren: link?
 * greg-g hasn't worn a watch since high school
<jrwren> http://detroitwatchco.com/collections/original-collection/products/1701-series
<rick_h_> mmmm purdy
<jrwren> someday... :)
<greg-g> a $900 watch that doesn't also wash my dishes is too expensive
<jrwren> greg-g: that is why... someday. :)
<greg-g> or refridgerate my food
<greg-g> even if I had $100,000,000 in the bank, I wouldn't buy a watch like that
<brousch> Why would you sleep with your watch? Don't you bang it on the headboard and snag it in the blankets?
<cmaloney> brousch: Too many ways to go horribly wrong with that sentence.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Wow. That's a nice watch
<jrwren> greg-g: seriously? 100,000,000 ?
<jrwren> greg-g: I would, only because I'd want to represent Detroit.
<cmaloney> That's the kind of watch that makes me wish I wasn't a) cheap, and b) wore watches that weren't tied to the Internet in some way.
<greg-g> maaaaybe at a 100mil, but not at a mil
<jrwren> greg-g: i'll let ya know if I have when, when I get to 1M$ :p
<greg-g> :P
<cmaloney> The only issue with sleeping with the Pebble is every now and again I'll hit it in such a way that it'll trigger the backlight
<cmaloney> it's like having a wrist-mounted sun
<brousch> I turn off my light and vibrations and set it on the wireless charger before bed. Put it on when I put on my clothes in the morning after a shower
<cmaloney> I have a "powersave" app for the pebble
<cmaloney> turns the face off, though doesn't turn off notifications / etc.
<cmaloney> but my phone is in the other room.
<cmaloney> (yes, I don't sleep with my phone)
<brousch> I should see if I can have do that via tasker whenever the watch is charging
<brousch> If not, time to make a little app!
<brousch> http://imgur.com/yrtHOlI
<brousch> What the ... they are seriously selling a $10,000 version of the apple watch?
<brousch> I thought that was a joke
<jrwren> how much is a rolex?
<brousch> I have no idea
<jrwren> its in the ballpark.
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeah, that's why the internet is losing said collective shit.
<brousch> The 12" macbook is actually kind of interesting
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's the only thing that's remotely interesting
<mthx> From an enginerring perspective, yes the new macbook is interesting. But seriously, only 2 ports, a USB3c and an Audio out? It's bad enough that the former version of the Macbook Air had to use thunderbolt adapters for virtually everything, it at least had separate power and USB ports. Now I would have to buy a whole slew of new adapters just to get my basic usb/ether/video-out/etc back. As if my gig bag didn't already have enough adapters in 
<mthx> I guess if you only ever intend to use it as a single screen laptop at a Coffeehouse or as a conference device, it is quite appealing. I just can't see it as a practical daily driver.
<jrwren> i would really hope it comes with a port replicator.
<brousch> That's probably why it's macbook instead of pro
<cmaloney> So is Thunderbolt replaced by USBc?
<cmaloney> because I will LMAO
<mthx> It is on the new Macbook. But the Air and Pro still have TB.
<cmaloney> again, ass in danger of being laughed off
<mthx> It would actually be really neat if the new macbook came with about 3 or 4 of the USB3c ports, and you were supplied with adapters for at least USB,HDMI, and Ethernet, with the purchase. I do like the idea of being able to use the same type of port for everything, and this seems to be a move in that direction.
<brousch> With the purchase, that's a good one
<jrwren> mthx: yea. i'd even be fine with the 1 port, and a replicator that has all of those.
<mthx> Yea, I know, never going to happen. We could all hope right?
<cmaloney> I'm sure they'll offer the USBc hub for $99
<mthx> jrwen, Yea I could see that being a decent solution. I'd be curious how a single port would be able to handle power in, data transfers, and video out simultaniously though.
<cmaloney> $129 if you want powered hub.
<jrwren> mthx: i don't know much about usb3.1, but it i supposedly SUPERFAST
<mthx> jrwren: I am not concerned to much about speed, more about how it handles incoming power alongside the other stuff. I'm not sure I would want to be doing tons of stuff on the same port that has tons of electricity flowing through it. I'm not an electrical engineer, so it might be that its a non-issue (or at least a solved one), it just feels a bit dangerous.
<cmaloney> Nah
<cmaloney> Although don't expect a USBc Google search to give you anything that isn't related to bowling
<cmaloney> 12v 60W isn't going to do any damage
<cmaloney> nor 20v at 100W
<cmaloney> Though that could be one hell of a spark if you accidentally trip over it. :)
<jrwren> mthx: its a non issue. the system as a whole draws very little power.
<jrwren> 14.5V 3.1A is what macbook air currently uses for a power supply. so, 45W
<jrwren> I'd not be surprised if this thing ships wiht a new style power brick that is even smaller. maybe 25W
<cmaloney> Pretty sure the only reason it's at 14.5 V is so some twit doesn't try to hook up a Rat Shack 12V PSU.
<jrwren> the macs?
<cmaloney> yeah
<jrwren> i've never seen a laptop that takes 12V
<jrwren> its always some custom b.s.
<cmaloney> Yeah
<jrwren> http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Adapter-Battery-Charger-Laptops/dp/B004EHLNTM%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-d-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB004EHLNTM
<jrwren> 15, 16, 18, 18.5, 19, 19.5, 20, 22, 24
<cmaloney> That's pathetic
<jrwren> which part? lack of standard?
<cmaloney> Yes
<jrwren> *shrug*
<cmaloney> Having to have 15 different tips
<jrwren> welcome to computing
<cmaloney> Not on the desktop. :)
<jrwren> mthx: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter
<jrwren> cmaloney: you were so close. it is only $79
<jrwren> oh god, that isn't even the replicator, that only gives HDMI and USB.
<mthx> Hmm, still think that needs to come with the Macbook, not as an accessory.
<mthx> Even so, at least they realized they would need something like that.
<jrwren> mthx: i agree, and even taht item isn't good enough. It needs to have a thunderbolt port to be compat with their own thunderbolt displays, and preferably would have USB and Ethernet too :)
<brousch> I'm sure they will have those on the macbook pro next time
<jrwren> brousch: you think they will ever do a major rev to MBP again?
<brousch> I would hope so.
<brousch> I thought they would never make another macbook
<brousch> Air and Pro seemed to have it all covered
<mthx> Yea, as nice as it is to just connect to Wireless all the time, there is still a very legitimate need for ethernet. Highly dense networks for instance, like a college. It's really hard to supply decent Wifi with 3000+ people all trying to connect at the same time. Having some people connect via ethernet helps cut down on the wireless traffic quite a bit.
<cmaloney> jrwren: You're kidding.
<cmaloney> *sigh*
<cmaloney> APPLEEEEEEEE
<cmaloney> God, the throw on the Macbook keyboard is insane
<brousch> I love apple's keyboards and touchpads
<cmaloney> Pretty sure the next generation of keyboards will look a little like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Atari_400-IMG_1720.jpg
<cmaloney> Also: this makes me sad: http://technabob.com/blog/2009/01/10/fridgebuzzz-atari-400-synth/
<jrwren> brousch: i'm guessing the future will be the death of air and pro, converging on this new macbook.
<cmaloney> brousch: Speaking of which, do you need one of the old BT keyboards?
<brousch> old?
<mthx> jrwren: Actually, I think Macbook and Air would merge, or that Air would just give away to Macbook. Either way, both of them seem to be fighting for the same userbase. The ultra portable lightweight market. Dropping the Pro would kind of kill most of their enterprise laptop market.
<brousch> That is my thought
<brousch> Need ultra portable? Go air/macbook. Need ports and external monitors? go pro
<mthx> In fact, I am surprised they brought back the regualr Macbook. It would have seemed more appropriate to just introduce it as the 2015 Air, or go with Air+ *cough* since it was such as wonderful name for the iPhone 6/6+
<cmaloney> "The new MacBook is the first Mac notebook ever without a fan. Since the Intel Core M chip draws only 5 watts of power and therefore generates less heat, no fan or heat pipe is required."
<cmaloney> That's cool
<cmaloney> though how will I know when Chrome is hung?
<jrwren> mthx: what enterprise laptop market? :)
<cmaloney> The one that Lenovo gave to HP
<mthx> jrwen: A lot of business are buying their employees Macbook Pro's now, especially employees who travel a lot.
<cmaloney> citation needed. ;)
<mthx> Obviously not all business'. But where as 5 years ago, you never really say professionals using Macbook Pro's, you see it a lot more these days. Heck, go to just about any tech confierence and look around.
<cmaloney> mthx: Yeah, Mac really took the developer community
<mthx> 5 second search brought up this picture.
<mthx> http://www.techdigest.tv/2015/01/nearly-everyone-who-covered-the-windows-10-announcement-uses-a-mac.html
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> I think part of it is the macbook is a durable machine
<cmaloney> or at least exudes durability.
<jrwren> mthx: i strongly disagree. do you have numbers to backup your argument or is this anecdotal?
<jrwren> my anecdote: over 50% of those macs are airs :]
<cmaloney> http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/07/mac-achieves-highest-u-s-pc-market-share-ever-in-q3-2014-according-to-idc/
<mthx> jrwen: Thats a fair point about those mostly being Air's, not Pro's. I suppose that might be attributed to those people being mostly Journalists who prefer portability/battery over most other things.
<gamerchick02> cmaloney, i concur that the macbook air is relatively robust. granted, i don't abuse it, but i also don't baby it either.
<mthx> At the College I work at, almost all Faculty and Staff are provided with Macbook Pro's or iMac's.  Their are a few I know of that have request something else, like myself (System76 Ultra Pro), but nearly everyone with a laptop is running on a Macbook Pro. Students of course provide their own computers and something like 70% of them are running Macs. I don't think we have stats that differentiate between Pro/Air, but just from walking around ca
<cmaloney> ^^ college
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> College != enterprise, no matter how you slice it.
<mthx> The people working in enterprise in a few years are in college right now. Mac's will continue to find their way into enterprise because thats what people are becoming more familiar with.
<mthx> And quite frankly, that's already been happening since before I was even in college.
<mthx> Go down to Ann Arbor and check up the start up seen. I would be willing to bet you will see a lot of people using Macs.
<cmaloney> Ann Arbor != Reality. ;)
<mthx> Ann Arbor != Detroit you mean :)
<gamerchick02> lol cmaloney. also my whole office is a windows shop *sigh*
<cmaloney> That's like saying that they're a ton of vegetarian restaurants on the planet because you can't swing a cat in Ann Arbor without hitting one.
<cmaloney> bah, there are
<mthx> There are a ton of vegetarian restraunts just about everywhere.
<cmaloney> IN ANN ARBOR
<cmaloney> italian restaurants don't count. ;)
<gamerchick02> there are none in Auburn Hills or in Saginaw.
<gamerchick02> granted that's where i've lived. also i'm not sure about Flint but there were none when i was there
<cmaloney> I'm sure if you went to Meat Falls Texas you'd have a different picture.
<mthx> Almost all major chain restaurants now have vegetarian options. Some are just the basics, like a vegie burger, but a lot actually do have legetimate menus
<cmaloney> mthx: Agreed. It's getting better
<cmaloney> At least National doesn't have the Vegetarian Tuna on the menu anymore
<cmaloney> (which was their vegetarian sandwich with tuna)
<mthx> In fact, about the only restraunt here in town I can't eat at (because I am in fact a vegetarian) is arby's.
<mthx> Tuna is not vegetarian.
<mthx> Give me their address, I'll go slap them.
<cmaloney> They've since changed the menu
<cmaloney> But yeah, apparnetly we weren't the first to notice it and ask our waitress
<mthx> Heh, I bet quite a few vegetarians chewed their ears out over that one.
<cmaloney> Though I know a few vegetarians who wouldn't have batted an eye
<mthx> Posers
<cmaloney> And would have argued at length about how tuna was now vegetarian
<mthx> Piscetarians. *sigh*
<cmaloney> more like idiots.
<cmaloney> had one claim that kosher food was vegetarian.
<mthx> Just to clarify, I got nothing against Pescetarian's, except when they call themselves vegetarian.
<cmaloney> mthx: i just call myself an omnivore
<cmaloney> I'll eat vegetarian at a lot of places because the food is better.
<mthx> cmaloney: Nothing wrong with omnivore's either. As long as they don't call themselves vegetarians :)
<cmaloney> I'm abut as vegetarian as I am feminine.
<gamerchick02> LOL cmaloney.
<mthx> ^^
<gamerchick02> sorry, following this is quite interesting
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ your 650 doesn't include the paypal fee, correct?
<cmaloney> Send it as Friend
<cmaloney> that'll negate the fees
<gamerchick02> i'm doing that and it has some sort of fee associated with it
<cmaloney> Waht's the fee?
<gamerchick02> almost $20
<cmaloney> hm. so non-zero then
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> $19.15 actually is the fee
<gamerchick02> honestly, mailing a check would be much cheaper.
<cmaloney> Do you have Bank of America bill-pay?
<gamerchick02> i don't have BOA
<gamerchick02> i'm with Chase
<gamerchick02> i'll wait til he gets back in irc and then ask again.
<cmaloney> I don't think he'll care but that's not my call to make
<gamerchick02> we'll see what works for him better. honestly, a check and mail is gonna be less than a buck to send. almost $20 is kinda crazy
<gamerchick02> yeah i know. and i won't be at CHC because i've got Nile the night before and i'll be exhausted that Wednesday night.
<cmaloney> What's hilarious is I've used BOA to send my dad a check
<cmaloney> They paid postage
<gamerchick02> hah!
<gamerchick02> does anyone have a recommendation for a 125 gb thumb drive? something relatively small (doesn't need to be USB3)? i want one for my "music drive" so i can move my music around between three computers.
<gamerchick02> i'm betting microcenter would have one
<jrwren> gamerchick02: get the fastest kind you can becuase that much data to copy gets SLOW!!!
<gamerchick02> will USB3 be backwards compatible with USB2? (i presume so)
<gamerchick02> and i'm also presuming that i won't have more than 125 gb of music in the future. bwah ha ha
<gamerchick02> maybe i will go to microcenter when my month of hell is over.
<gamerchick02> aka March.
<gamerchick02> i have so much Nile stuff to do.
<jrwren> gamerchick02: usb3 is back compat, but the connector on new MacBok is not
<jrwren> http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter  $10 more than an apple tv.
<jrwren> its an adapter.
<mrgoodcat> 80$ to plug my yubikey in
<mrgoodcat> i'm so excited
<mrgoodcat> ~apple~
<mrgoodcat> à² _à² 
<gamerchick02> holy crap
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: that's fine, don't worry about the fee.
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ you'd prefer a check? because you'd get more money and it'd be cheaper for me. win-win-winning?
<gamerchick02> damn fees.
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: whatever you want. The fees come out of what you put in right? So the fee is on my end?
<gamerchick02> no i pay the fee
<gamerchick02> that's what paypal was telling me
<rick_h_> oh, then just cut the amount by the fee then
<gamerchick02> i'd rather you get more money.
<rick_h_> whatever works for you, I'm not worried about it.
<gamerchick02> you can email me your mailing address if you want and i'll get it in the mail tomorrow from work.
<gamerchick02> rpgirl1981 at gmail dot com
<gamerchick02> i need to pay my power bill anyway
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: k, sent
<gamerchick02> rock out
<jrwren> https://twitter.com/rolldiggity/status/575046365715173376
<jrwren> bwahahahaha
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ will be in the mail tomorrow
<gamerchick02> no i mean the check will be in the mail tomorrow. not that you'll be in the mail tomorrow.
<gamerchick02> jrwren LOL
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-10
<brousch> Macbook air without batteries http://i.imgur.com/PZGqj3A.png
<rick_h_> lmao
<brousch> Hm, comments say it is the new macbook, not the air
<brousch> https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2yhh10/inside_a_macbook_air_minus_the_batteries/
<rick_h_> yea, that's the lovely thing I found out yesterday
<rick_h_> this isn't an 'air' model
<rick_h_> it's just macbook
<brousch> So it's phone guts with a big screen and a lot of batteries
<cmaloney> Happy Birthday jcastro!
<jcastro> thanks!
<jrwren> its an rpi with intel chip with a big screen and lot of batteries :)
<jrwren> Happy Birthday jcastro !
<jcastro> thanks!
<cmaloney> Morning
<ColonelPanic001> 'morning
<_stink_> yo
<brousch> mama
<_stink_> on
<cmaloney> keyboard
<_stink_> good save.
<cmaloney> ;)
<jorge> https://i.imgur.com/DBQpUPO.jpg
<cmaloney> jcastro: Nice. :)
<jrwren> omg, so evil. http://kukuruku.co/hub/diy/usb-killer
<cmaloney> jcastro: Reminds me of these good ol' days: http://boingboing.net/images/BangfoAtarisdesk.jpg
<cmaloney> One SIO cable to rule them all
<jcastro> one cable is fine
<jcastro> it's just, one port
<cmaloney> So was the Atari
<jcastro> and of course, the adapter is $80
<cmaloney> So was the Atari. ;)
<cmaloney> Actually I had an after-market SIO hub
<_stink_> jrwren: that's awesome
<cmaloney> jrwren: Ouch
<greg-g_> btw: https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/
<jrwren> cmaloney: what is that next to the tape drive?
<cmaloney> jrwren: The Atari 850
<cmaloney> That was the way you could hook up serial / parallel devices to the Atari
<cmaloney> Also added other SIO ports.
<cmaloney> http://www.atarimuseum.com/computers/8bits/400800/atari850.html
<ColonelPanic001> hi greg-g
<greg-g> hi, I'm having stupid irssi issues, sorry for the /join /part noise
<ColonelPanic001> cut that out
<ColonelPanic001> have good irssi issues instead
<cmaloney> greg-g: Your site is having rss issues.
<greg-g> cmaloney: my site is down
<cmaloney> How will I know that you haven't posted anything?
<ColonelPanic001> my god greg-g
<ColonelPanic001> come on
<cmaloney> ToS
<greg-g> disk issues (again) in the server
<cmaloney> Ugh
<cmaloney> Where is it hosted?
<greg-g> so, I've redirect my mail to a gandi mailbox and will deal with the fallout of other things Later (TM)
<greg-g> a colo'd box in http://iocoop.org/
 * greg-g waits for brousch's "CLOUD!" mantra
<jrwren> i was going to say github pages :)
<greg-g> heh
<brousch> I have nothing against hosting on a single server, as long as it's reliable
<brousch> I prefer not to deal with it
<greg-g> it was, but as any hardware, it dies over time
<cmaloney> yeah that's why I'm with Linode
<cmaloney> they get to handle hardware issues
<greg-g> there's nothign unique on that server (I have backups)
<cmaloney> And XEN security issues
 * cmaloney is listening to Fine Young Cannibals - She Drives Me Crazy
<cmaloney> You're welcome.
<_stink_> noooooooooooo
 * cmaloney is listening to Fine Young Cannibals - Good Thing
<cmaloney> You're also welcome
<jrwren> why cmaloney? why?
<cmaloney> jrwren: Thank the Squeezebox for the selection
<cmaloney> And it's a hell of an album
<cmaloney> jrwren: btw: New Sister Machine Gun released today.
<cmaloney> https://wtiirecords.bandcamp.com/album/the-future-unformed
<jrwren> cmaloney: yeah, I listened to some samples yesterday. Sounded better than I would have guessed.
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> yeah, it's pretty good
<jrwren> i never listened to anyting past metropolis
<cmaloney> jrwren: you have some pleasent catching up to do
<jrwren> cmaloney: yeah? I should check out the last 15 yrs?
<cmaloney> I think [r]evolution and 6.0 are quite good
<cmaloney> and Influence is some of his best work
<cmaloney> Definitely
<cmaloney> http://www.positronrecords.com/artists/artist.php?aid=sister_machine_gun
<brousch> One of my users took it upon himself to craft an email signature with HTML and an embedded image. then he set up several other users with it. The image he used was about 1MB.
<jrwren> lol
<cmaloney> brousch: I hate image email signatures
<brousch> As do I
<cmaloney> I find them rather pointless exercises in branding
<brousch> You are correct sir
<cmaloney> especially for someone (like me) who doesn't email outside the company.
<brousch> Though I'm sure marketoids will argue the pointless
<brousch> I got the image down to 8KB
<cmaloney> brousch: I'm sure the marketroids would brand your speech if possible
<cmaloney> so when you look at it using a spectrograph it'l show their logo
<brousch> Our logo is so old and ugly, I'm not sure it's even a good idea to use it
<cmaloney> http://www.synthgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/aphex_face.png
<mrgoodcat> woah
<mrgoodcat> thats a pretty crazy picture
<cmaloney> Even crazier knowing that it was embedded in audio
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-11
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> Well this is irritating
<cmaloney> JoDee's Debit card # was stolen again
<cmaloney> Apparently someone in NY was shopping at Target with it
<cmaloney> She's only used that card in four places.
<brousch> Sue them all!
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :/ man you guys should switch to apple pay
<brousch> Wow, a fog rolled in here in the last 30 minutes. I can't see across the street
<rick_h_> yea, so much moisture in the air due to the melting snow
<rick_h_> my truck is not white, but grey now
<rick_h_> at least the bottom 2/3, two tone!
<brousch> This is thick stuff!
<brousch> The truth of this disturbs me http://xkcd.com/1497/
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> It means the apple watch is going to be huge
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I think it's safer to just use Paypal everywhere., :)
<cmaloney> I'll just type my password onto this iPhone screen. :)
<brousch> Interesting. My phone can see through the fog better than my bare eyes
<brousch> I went to take a photo, and the building across the street is quite visible on the phone
<jrwren> cmaloney: was one of the places... Target?
<jrwren> yeah, this is why I stopped using debit card. The money is jsut gone from accounts :(
<cmaloney> jrwren: Well, the charges get reversed
<cmaloney> And no, Target wasn't one of the places
<_stink_> brousch: ah wow, that is interesting.  correcting for dirty lens fixes fog too, maybe?
<jrwren> cmaloney: dude, SMG - Loser is so Kid Rock - Polyfuse Method it is making me laugh.
<cmaloney> jrwren: yeah, it's hilarious. I have the DVD performance as well.
<cmaloney> jrwren: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b7Lfn6OMk4
<cmaloney> (bad language alert)
<jrwren> cmaloney: man... i should have listned to SMG
<jrwren> cmaloney: this track, Denial, is totally Underworld Second Toughest In The Infants.
<cmaloney> jrwren: yeah, you've been missing some greatstuff.
<brousch> New $1000 chromebook Pixel https://store.google.com/product/chromebook_pixel_2015
<mrgoodcat> wtb that 16/64 version
<brousch> Too expensive
<brousch> Might as well buy an Apple
<mrgoodcat> USB-C
<mrgoodcat> its everywhere now
<mrgoodcat> but also USB 3
<mrgoodcat> so rip apple i guess
<mrgoodcat> the inclusion of legacy USB ports is crucial for me. the new macbook only has the USB-C port and I don't want to carry around dongles to convert to USB for my yubikey
<jrwren> brousch: you realize that is the cheapest >200dpi laptop around?
<brousch> I'm surprised there's no elegant solution for carrying dongles for apple laptops
<rick_h_> and has battery life to run chrome all day vs an apple :)
<mrgoodcat> i really want one
<mrgoodcat> maybe the old pixels are all about to be on craigslist in a cheaper range for me. i'd be happy with that too
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: yeah, all 3 of them.
<mrgoodcat> i mean it wasn't the best selling laptop of all time but you gotta give them more credit than that
<jrwren> all 10 of them?
<cmaloney> I don't think the Pixel was a best seller.
 * greg-g sighs a sigh a manager can sigh
<jrwren> just had a 2 sec power outage :(
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-12
<cmaloney> morning
<gamerchick02> morning?
<gamerchick02> but howdy, either way
<cmaloney> heh
<gamerchick02> it's morning somewhere
<cmaloney> I typed morning in another channel and figured I'd double down
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ the dell is rockin
<gamerchick02> LOL
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: glad you like it
<gamerchick02> :) thank you. my check should be arriving soon.
<gamerchick02> i mailed it yesterday
<mrgoodcat> did you buy ricks xps13?
<gamerchick02> i did, mrgoodcat
<gamerchick02> i love it
<mrgoodcat> yea thats a solid machine
<gamerchick02> i'm trying to figure out what's up with the "operating system not found" error on bootup. i press "enter" and it works but... you know
<mrgoodcat> i've only had my hands on them a handful of times but i liked it enough
<mrgoodcat> that's an odd problem...
<gamerchick02> it is
<mrgoodcat> you're running just ubuntu right? no dual boot or anything like that?
<gamerchick02> on the Dell yes
<gamerchick02> straight ubuntu, no mods
<gamerchick02> i can figure it out tomorrow or something. it's getting late and my brain is kinda mush.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> Yes
<cmaloney> And it was good.
<rick_h_> morning
<greg-g> neighbor is drilling in concrete (it sounds like, can't see), which made me look through somafm's stations and pick.... the dub step one
<greg-g> this stuff is.... great if I were 17 again
<cmaloney> greg-g: Yeah, Dubstep great to the point where the transformers start stomping about.
<greg-g> isn't that the entire thing?
<cmaloney> I've heard certain songs where they have a decent beat and then CRASH Woooom wwwwwwoooooom wub wub wub wubawubbawubba brrrrrrip.
<cmaloney> I've grown to detest it less over time
<cmaloney> but it still kind of sucks in a "Watch the giant robot stomp about in bullet-time for no good reason" sort of way.
<cmaloney> Like this current track
<cmaloney> here comes the brackdown
<mrgoodcat> i see dubstep as a gateway into bettter electronic music
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: That's like saying Hair Metal is a gateway to better music
<cmaloney> not everyone makes the jump
<mrgoodcat> sad for them i guess
<cmaloney> Though honestly a lot of electronic music sounds similar to me
<mrgoodcat> a lot of metal sounds similar to other people
<mrgoodcat> subjective taste etc
<cmaloney> I mean, I'm not going to confuse Tangerine Dream with Skrillex
<cmaloney> But I'll be damned if I can tell the difference between Breakbeat, Jungle, House, et. al
<mrgoodcat> just takes a practiced ear
<cmaloney> Maybe.
<cmaloney> or perhaps I'm just not as discerning. :)
<mrgoodcat> music seems to be one thing where familiarity breeds taste and vice-versa
<mrgoodcat> it builds on itself
<cmaloney> True
<mrgoodcat> the more people listen to a genre, the more they notice about it
<cmaloney> Could also be I don't particularly care for labels
<mrgoodcat> and the more they notice about it the more they are able to appreciate the subtle differences
<mrgoodcat> electronic music is perfect for people that don't like labels. so many indie electronic artists its hard to keep track of them
<cmaloney> Whether it's blackened death metal vs. death metal vs. technical death metal I couldn't care less.
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: True dat.
<cmaloney> I think Electronic Music is about as useful a term as world music
<cmaloney> or "guitar music":
<mrgoodcat> they all claim weird genres that i can't ever even tell what they mean
<mrgoodcat> disco-funky-trace-rock-synth
<cmaloney> http://www.di.fm/
<mrgoodcat> oh cool
<cmaloney> under the "hard" button there' Psytrance, Hard Dance, JHungle, Big Room House, NIghtcore, Trap...
<mrgoodcat> heh
<mrgoodcat> i've been on a newgrass kick recently
<cmaloney> Club Dubstep vs. Dubstep
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I can handle *grass music for one and a half songs.
<mrgoodcat> club dubstep is much more LOUD NOISES ALL THE TIME SOO MUCH BASS MAKE SURE TO CHUG YOUR BEER AAAAHHHHH
<mrgoodcat> yea lots of people feel that way
<mrgoodcat> its not exactly popular
<rick_h_> heh wife is hilarious
<greg-g> newgrass?
<rick_h_> "I'm going to get the snow tires taken off on Sat"
<rick_h_> "but, it could snow still!"
<rick_h_> "Yep, it could, but going to be getting to warm for snow tires so I'd rather not burn up $1k in tires"
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_bluegrass
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: its like bluegrass but modern electric instruments incororated
<rick_h_> "but what will do if it snows?"
<mrgoodcat> basically modern bluegrass
<greg-g> innnnteresting
<mrgoodcat> yonder mountain string band
<rick_h_> "exactly what you did before I got you snow tires...drive carefully?"
<cmaloney> See, Bela Fleck I fucking love
<mrgoodcat> newgrass revival
<cmaloney> and here's why:
<cmaloney> THEY DON'T FUCKING SING.
<greg-g> bela is newgrass? I guess so
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: my gf is the same way
<greg-g> I love me some real appalachian bluegrass
<mrgoodcat> i told her to take her snow tires off if she wants them to last
<brousch> I only bluegrass if there's no singing
<cmaloney> http://www.rushisaband.com/blog/2014/02/06/3923/Rush-2112-reference-in-indie-film-The-History-of-Future-Folk
<cmaloney> JoDee and I tried to watch that movie
<mrgoodcat> bela fleck is definitely newgrass
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yea, funny I had to talk her into snow tires a ton
<cmaloney> We got to about the second song
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: now she's like "but but...will my car work without them in snow" now :)
<mrgoodcat> heh
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Nice. :)
<greg-g> I guess I never knew what to really call Bela before
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: what about o' brother where art thou?
<cmaloney> greg-g: Mr. Fleck, likely.
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: never saw it
<brousch> rick_h_: Reveal to her that the snow tires are just a placebo
<cmaloney> My dad loved the sound track enough to pirate it
<greg-g> cmaloney: :P
<rick_h_> brousch: lies!
<mrgoodcat> brousch: they aren't though
 * rick_h_ loves him some snow tires
 * cmaloney does love The Browning though. nice mix of electronic / death metal. :)
<cmaloney> with a hint of dubstep-like stuff
<brousch> My anecdote says they are worthless. I have been in exactly 1 winter accident, it was in a car with snow tires. I've never had snow tires any other time.
<rick_h_> I've never figured out wtf 'dub-step' actually is
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: club noise mostly
<greg-g> I liked cmaloney's description of transformers stomping around, with all of the eletrical gear/pistons that implies
<rick_h_> hah volunteers? https://twitter.com/Jimmy_Byrd/status/576070644019957761
<rick_h_> I know of a couple of things that live over there I used
<brousch> The Internet Archive?
<mrgoodcat> i don't use a lot of google code things
<cmaloney> Honestly I'm not surprised Google Code is finally getting the plug
<cmaloney> it's been moribund for years and they've made no secret about their intent to discontinue it
<rick_h_> wooo! launchpad outlasted google code! :P
<cmaloney> Not sure that's much to crow about
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> oh come on, that was funny!
<cmaloney> Sadly, it was
<cmaloney> Pretty sure something named Sourceforge will outlast us all
<greg-g> they should do like what gitorious did (they were just bought by gitlab and will be shut down) and give a tarball of all the git repos to IA
<cmaloney> and everyone will claim they never use it
<cmaloney> greg-g: Something tells me gitorious is a little more curated than Google COde
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> I'm sure there's stuff on there that isn't 100% legal
<greg-g> (same with IA ;) )
<greg-g> see also: Citizen Four being on there for about 2 days
<greg-g> I didn't know it wasn't authorized and downloaded and watched it before I found out it was removed. I think that still keeps me in the ethical bucket.
<cmaloney> See: Certain manga series. :)
<cmaloney> and one of the audiobooks I recently listend to
<cmaloney> and the Oxford bible w/ annotations
<cmaloney> That's right: I pirated the Bible. :)
<greg-g> I don't think God needs the royalties
<cmaloney> No, but apparently Oxford needs the DRM on the new version
<greg-g> I mean, if he does, we're all more fucked than we thought
<rick_h_> are you kidding me? everything with him is about the $ :)
<greg-g> haha
<cmaloney> Harsh but fair
<rick_h_> http://amzn.com/1416576576 :)
<rick_h_> interviewed on the daily show last week
<greg-g> interesting
<greg-g> man I want time to read again
 * greg-g looks at Rowan, Carrie, RV, work, work, and work as the blockers
<rick_h_> you and me both, I'm still on the same book for the last 3 weeks I think :/
<mrgoodcat> name announced for star wars standalone film
<brousch> Do you not work on the biggest encyclopedia evar?
<mrgoodcat> rogue one
<mrgoodcat> felicity jones first actress cast
<greg-g> brousch: I wish that means I could have time to read it (or even edit, so many things I want to contribute)
<greg-g> you know what I just realized, the drilling in the concrete next door is indistinguishable from the dubstep I'm listening to. I just realized between songs that it wasn't part of the song
<mthx> Anyone every used Brasero to make an ISO copy of a blu-ray disk before?
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> greg-g: That's the best part about electronic music
<cmaloney> You can't tell when the music ends and the environment begins
<greg-g> :)
<mrgoodcat> anybody know of any OSS databases that are drop in replacements for MS SQL?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: You'll want something that's close to Sybase
<cmaloney> not sure anyone cloned Sybase
<cmaloney> Honestly you'd probably have a better time migrating the data over to an OSS database like PostgreSQL
<mrgoodcat> don't really have that choice
<mrgoodcat> we're using GoldMine CRM and MS SQL express
<mrgoodcat> Express has a 10 GB size limit for databases and GoldMine only speaks MS SQL
<cmaloney> Welcome to lock-in
<mrgoodcat> MS SQL standard is like 3k per core that you have to buy in 2 core packs
<cmaloney> Yep. You've made a mistake. :)
<cmaloney> You'll have to do some heroics to keep using Goldmine, pay money, or migrate off GoldMine.
<mrgoodcat> we've been thinking about migrating away from goldmine for a while anyways
<cmaloney> And now you have a great reason to start loking
<cmaloney> looking
<mrgoodcat> or we could decide that data is stale after 5 years and dump it Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<cmaloney> a-yep
<mrgoodcat> although that seems like not the best option
<cmaloney> Depends on how you value the data.
<mrgoodcat> heh goldmine rated last place by g2 https://www.g2crowd.com/categories/crm
<cmaloney> 5yo contacts might be the best thing ever, or not worth the effort
<mrgoodcat> we don't really have much use for history past 5 years
<mrgoodcat> the company owner is extremely averse to any sort of change
<cmaloney> Well, if he's adverse to change perhaps he'll be more happy with bigger bills.
<mrgoodcat> and also a bit paranoid that people are trying to steal company data (which since the data is basically useless to anybody but us, they are probably not)
<cmaloney> Then it's time to have this person sign off on updating the MS-SQL server
<cmaloney> and call it a day
<mrgoodcat> he's chosen to pay rather than change in the past, i wouldn't be surprised if that's how this plays you
<mrgoodcat> plays out rather
<cmaloney> Problem solved
<gamerchick02> Terry Pratchett died today. dunno if anyone followed his stuff. i have not but i regret not reading his books. his books will still be available though.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I read The Color of Magic.
<cmaloney> Apparently his later books are great, so I look forward to reading them
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-13
<greg-g> "Learn how easy it is to sync an existing GitHub or Google Code repo to a SourceForge project." heh
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jjesse> good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<ColonelPanic001> 'morning
<rick_h_> TGIF!!!
<cmaloney> No kidding
<gamerchick02> hey rick_h_ did you get my check?
<gamerchick02> i fixed the boot issue for the XPS13: set UEFI for the boot mode, and secure boot needs to be on
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-14
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: yes, cane yesterday I think thank you for sending it
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: awesome to hear
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: figured it would be something simple, just never got into it
<gamerchick02> you're welcome!
<gamerchick02> and i would rather you get more money straight up instead of paypal taking so much!
<gamerchick02> and the way i have it set up makes it hard to get to the bios. you gotta be fast.
<rick_h_> widox: http://www.corsac.net/?rub=blog&post=1571
<rick_h_> in case any hints there for you
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-15
<cmaloney> Evening
<gamerchick02> howdy cmaloney
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<gamerchick02> cmaloney are you still rocking tagspaces? i've found that the chrome evernote app seems to work pretty well on ubuntu.
<cmaloney> I'm using Tagspaces
<cmaloney> Going to do a presentation on it at Penguicon along with the rest of my GTD implementation
<cmaloney> The Chrome Tagspaces extension is problematic though
<cmaloney> WEll, let me rephrase
<cmaloney> the Android Tagspaces doesn't integrate with Dropbox
<cmaloney> and Chrome tagspaces is no better than the native client
<gamerchick02> ah
<cmaloney> Plus Tagspaces requires a tablet
<gamerchick02> i was thinking of switching BUT i use the evernote app all the time on my ipad.
<cmaloney> so instead I use Drafts
<cmaloney> on the phone
<cmaloney> Which is equvalent but doesn't understand Tagspaces tagging
<gamerchick02> that's unfortunate
<gamerchick02> too bad tagspaces won't sync with evernote
<cmaloney> Yeah, Evernote is pretty closed-off
<cmaloney> Which is why I switched
<cmaloney> Plus I can use vim on my notes if I want
<cmaloney> which is a plus
<gamerchick02> i know. also too bad they dont' make a native linux app. BUT i use it on all my other devices. i'm using ifttt a lot to put stuff in my evernote from other sources
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's the other problem
<cmaloney> Evernote has a lot if interfaces, but not a lot of exports. :)
<cmaloney> I don't know if you could replicate ifttt on Dropbox
<gamerchick02> so... i forgot how much i loved ubuntu. and the experience on this Dell is like... the machine and the OS were designed together (like the macbook and OSX).
<gamerchick02> no idea, but i think you can connect ifttt to dropbox.
<gamerchick02> not sure if it will work with individual files though
<cmaloney> https://ifttt.com/channels/dropbox/actions/67-create-a-text-file
<cmaloney> Looks like it'll create files
<cmaloney> not sure if it'll update files
<gamerchick02> no idea.
<gamerchick02> i guess you can try it
<cmaloney> If I used ifttt then I would. :)
<gamerchick02> lol
<cmaloney> But that's too life-hacky for me. :)
<gamerchick02> :) too automated?
<cmaloney> I prefer to not rely on a service that might go away
<gamerchick02> true
<gamerchick02> but you use dropbox. i don't think dropbox and evernote will be going anywhere anytime soon
<cmaloney> How foes ifttt make money?
<cmaloney> Well, Dropbox can be replaced with Owncloud
<gamerchick02> no idea
<cmaloney> so I'm not so worried
<cmaloney> and I pay Dropbox $9.99 a month to not go away.
<cmaloney> So far they've kept up their end of the bargain
<cmaloney> the Android Todo.txt uses Dropbox exclusively
<gamerchick02> i'm not paying for dropbox but i'm paying for evernote
<cmaloney> and I use CamScanner which uploads to Dropbox so I can take photos of paper and have it automagically tuend into PDFs
<cmaloney> So I have most of the functionality I used in Evernote
<gamerchick02> ooo
<gamerchick02> nice!
<cmaloney> OCR in Evernote was problematic because even human beings have problems with my handwriting
<gamerchick02> ok so ifttt is free but i'm betting they'll start charging for "more than X recipes" sometime soon
<gamerchick02> hence why you type everything... :-P
<cmaloney> http://www.quora.com/How-does-IFTTT-make-money
<cmaloney> It's a service I provide the world.
<dzho> they have do and if, they'll start charging for while and until
<dzho> or maybe for case
<cmaloney> dzho: Heh
<cmaloney> You pay for "do what I mean"
<dzho> http://xkcd.com/1482/
<cmaloney> Drop E
<cmaloney> Drop E
<cmaloney> Drop E
<cmaloney> Drop E
<gamerchick02> LOL
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H7xo-XD2oc <- For those who don't know what Drop E is.
<gamerchick02> something that my brother would know.
<gamerchick02> :)
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8S-F3DKA-8
<gamerchick02> heavy.
<widox> rick_h_: nice, thanks
<widox> i actualy have the x240 (RIP hardware buttons), but this has some pretty good overall notes
<rick_h_> widox: ah cool
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-14
<mrgoodcat> i watched roughly the first half so far
<mrgoodcat> the commentary by the professional is so helpful though
<mrgoodcat> he can articulate things that i've kind of felt but not really known why
<mrgoodcat> and he is really concise in explaining why moves are good bad or indifferent
<cmaloney> https://58muzik.bandcamp.com/album/geistig-verkr-ppelt-mixtape
<rick_h__> evening
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/u/0/115995495865975827932/posts/cxeoVc5F46n?pid=6261683410966118834&oid=108450858742730348271
<rick_h__> morning
<cmaloney> fuck dst
<cmaloney> and morning
<Scary_Guy> ^this^
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h__> heh
<rick_h__> this is the non-worstest side of dst
<rick_h__> it's the fall back one I can't stand
<Scary_Guy> Fall back is superior = extra hour of drinking
<Scary_Guy> also, eff the sun
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPIYQVXehVg
<rick_h__> heh, you must not have pets
<mrgoodcat> how is this the non-worst
<mrgoodcat> can't fall asleep at night, then still tired as hell in the morning
<rick_h__> mrgoodcat: pets learn time and when you go forward they wake you up an hour early for 3months
<rick_h__> same with kids
<mrgoodcat> simple solution: don't have kids
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<rick_h__> hah
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: it was an accident, OK? :p
<rick_h__> lol
<mrgoodcat> lol
<rick_h__> we asked for a year...but it's still a fall back time killer :P
<mrgoodcat> i've never had a problem with pets and DST
<mrgoodcat> my dog is lazy and only wakes up when she absolutely has to
<rick_h__> man, if we're 5min late our dog is nuts wanting food
<mrgoodcat> i put food in its bowl at 7am, she usually doesn't touch it till it least 9
<Scary_Guy> get an auto feeder
<Scary_Guy> or make one, I'm sure #i3detroit could offer up some ideas on that
<jrwren> gross. all I can picture is Back to the Future
<Scary_Guy> well we just hit that back in October.  Also the incept dates for a few replicants too
<cmaloney> The worst one for me is losing an hour
<cmaloney> I'm so goofed up right now
<jrwren> it doesn't help that I woke with a sinus infection yesterday. I blame DST for that too.
<Scary_Guy> daylight savings is stupid anyway, we should get rid of it
<cmaloney> I usually wake up right around when my alarm goes off
<cmaloney> ^^
<Scary_Guy> I mean yeah maybe it had a purpose, but that ended long ago
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: i love that magnetic go board he's using for the broadcast
<greg-g> DST isn't the problem, it's the non-DST time. Eastern timezone should always be in DST (ie, always EDT, -4UTC, never EST, -5UTC)
<jrwren> greg-g: agree!
<cmaloney> no
<cmaloney> no nononono
<cmaloney> est should always be -5 GMT
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Yeah, that is cool.
<jrwren> MI should be CST
<mrgoodcat> if you travel due south from most of michigan you hit CST
<jrwren> I want my 10:30-11pm june lake michigan sunsets
<mrgoodcat> in KY, TN, AL
<cmaloney> jrwren: I want darkness
<cmaloney> like my soul
<jrwren> cmaloney: hrm... i'm listening Clan of Xymox cover A Forest by The Cure right now. You want in? :p
<cmaloney> That's not darkness. :)
<jrwren> i know. its actually pretty damn happy
<cmaloney> https://earache.bandcamp.com/album/thresholds-full-dynamic-range-edition
<cmaloney> https://cialyn.bandcamp.com/album/radio-libre-albemuth
<mrgoodcat> about 3 hours into the game alpha go just made the first move that the 9p comentator didn't understand why it did it
<mrgoodcat> will be interesting to see how that workst out
<cmaloney> Which game?
<cmaloney> (of the series, I mean)
<mrgoodcat> 1
<mrgoodcat> i'm going to watch them all in order eventually
<cmaloney> heh
<mrgoodcat> michael redmond is an excellent commentator
<mrgoodcat> he's explaining so many things about game strategy
<cmaloney> That move signaled that Alpha Go wasn't just replaying common Go knowledge.
<cmaloney> but actually considering moves carefully
<mrgoodcat> he's just starting to wonder if alphago might win
<mrgoodcat> previously it was a 'what if' type thing
<cmaloney> the image of Lee Seidol with his mouth open after a move was priceless.
<mrgoodcat> now he's actually considering that it might be possible
<cmaloney> I'm still in the "don't play a capture game" phase of Go. :)
<mrgoodcat> i'm not sure what you mean by that
<mrgoodcat> as in you're trying to avoid the mentality where you constantly feel the need to try to capture?
<cmaloney> Yes
<cmaloney> And put myself into ridiculous situations where I box myself in
<mrgoodcat> i haven't played in so long
<mrgoodcat> i'm a bad go nerd
<mrgoodcat> lol
<cmaloney> Droppin' false eyes like Galileo dropped the orange.
<_stink_> cmaloney++
<mrgoodcat> 31.41% off xps 13 today
<mrgoodcat> happy pi day
<cmaloney> Gah!
<cmaloney> link?
<mrgoodcat> http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Dell-XPS-13-9350-Signature-Edition-Laptop/productID.326871900?WT.mc_id=PromoEmail_en_US_Pi_Day_MSBase_3-14-16_Hero_GetAPieceOfThePi
<mrgoodcat> wow thats a long link
<mrgoodcat> http://is.gd/VHgmC8 (www.microsoftstore.com)
<mrgoodcat> starting on game 2 now
<cmaloney> Hurm...
<cmaloney> Not the Dell I was hoping. :)
<cmaloney> or the store for that matter.
<mrgoodcat> what do you mean?
<cmaloney> Was hoping it was the Ubuntu machine. :)
<mrgoodcat> the microsoft store isn't exactly shady and the only difference between the regular and the dev editions of the xps 13 is the wifi adapter
<mrgoodcat> which can be swapped out
<mrgoodcat> my buddy did it a couple months ago
<brousch> I've crawled up to 23kyu on DGS
<brousch> Doing even better on most ladders
<cmaloney> brousch: nice!
<cmaloney> HGopefully I'll be able to get to a level where I'm not dropping your rating. :)
<mrgoodcat> you can drop someone's rating just by playing them?
<cmaloney> Apparently I have that affect on people. :)
<cmaloney> effect.
<mrgoodcat> i wish i could play someone reasonably good in person that could explain what i'm doing wrong
<mrgoodcat> or what i'm doing right for that matte
<cmaloney> WEll, I can only offer someone to play in person. :)
<cmaloney> I have a 9x9, a 13x13 board in standard size, and multiple little boards
<cmaloney> plus a really strange Avalon Hill board.
<mrgoodcat> oh you do?
<mrgoodcat> that's awesome
<mrgoodcat> its one of those things that i've always kinda wanted but never pulled the trigger on
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's one of those games that got me to give up sucking at chess and start sucking at it instead
<cmaloney> Love when peoplesay "chess is a complicated gae". No, it's not.
<cmaloney> Chess is a lot of memorization
<cmaloney> remembering 5,000 opening positions
<mrgoodcat> ha
<mrgoodcat> i never really got even reasonably ok at chess
<mrgoodcat> i suspect i'll never be even reasonably ok at go either but oh well
<mrgoodcat> if you are ever looking for someone to play with i'd be game
<mrgoodcat> but i dont have a lot of free time these days
<shakes808> Good evening, all
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-15
<shakes808> cmaloney: How are you doing?
<cmaloney> OK so far. Yourself?
<shakes808> Meh, not too bad.  Will be better when I am out of work and killing people on the XBOX :) and sending out my resume out :)
<shakes808> ^^^ one too many "out"  :|
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> out and about out
<shakes808> haha.
<shakes808> hopefully out before April
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
 * greg-g yawns
<cmaloney> Totally
<mrgoodcat> mornin
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2016/03/15/open-metalcast-episode-125-one-two-five/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-16
<cmaloney> Morning
<_stink_> yo
<mrgoodcat> hi there
<mrgoodcat> not going to make it to CHC tonight :(
<mrgoodcat> I keep meaning to come but something always comes up
<rick_h__> :(
<cmaloney> bummer
<cmaloney> We'll miss you
<mrgoodcat> have to meet with my circuit analysis group
<mrgoodcat> which will be a lot less fun that browsing hacker news in a coffee ship
<mrgoodcat> shop even
<mrgoodcat> coffee ship would be cool too tho i guess
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-17
<rick_h__> jcastro: you all cook timetimes right?
<rick_h__> jcastro: I've got a free blueapron invite and wanted to see if you're intersted
<rick_h__> jrwren: same ^
<jrwren> cook timetimes?
<jrwren> rick_h__: thanks for offer. My wife is all groceries and from scratch and stuff, so I am out.
<rick_h__> jrwren: yea, that's what we like. It's fresh stuff from scratch but always a surprise
<jcastro> rick_h__: I've read both your sentences twice and still can't parse wtf you're talking about lol
<rick_h__> jcastro: lol would you like a free meal from https://www.blueapron.com/
<jcastro> but blueparon looks incredible
<rick_h__> jcastro: to try it out
<jcastro> I've seen services like this
 * rick_h__ has invites
<jcastro> I think that if we stopped wasting so much money eating out and being lazy
<jcastro> this would work for us and save us money
<jcastro> YES, invite me.
<rick_h__> yea, that's our thing. It's cheaper than us eating out twice a week and better food/for us
<rick_h__> been doing it for 6mo or so and my wife just loves it, but it involved manual cooking
<rick_h__> so not everyone's cup of tea
<jcastro> I don't mind cooking
<jcastro> it's the prep and shopping and stuff that sucks
<jcastro> "cook this all prepped for you like they do on TV" is the fun part
<jcastro> I can see why this service is valuable
<rick_h__> lol, well you still have to chop and dice and such
<rick_h__> but what's awesome is they ship you the amount you need for the recipe
<jcastro> well yeah
<jcastro> but it's the right amount
<rick_h__> so I don't have to buy 10lb of kale for one meal
<jcastro> it seems better than "we better buy a huge box of XXX at costco in case we need it"
<jcastro> right
<rick_h__> yea
<rick_h__> invite sent
<rick_h__> anyone else wants a blueapron meal let me know
<jcastro> I might need you to send one to my neighbor, I'll let you know, how many do you have?
<rick_h__> 3 more after yours
<rick_h__> and then I get a new one every few months or whatever
<jcastro> ok I'll probably just sign up
<jcastro> how is the food?
<rick_h__> so I find we like 3 out of 4 meals pretty well
<rick_h__> what's nice is that it's not stuff we'd normally do which is nice after making the same 10 things time after time
<jrwren> lactose intollerant vegetarian wife makes these things practically impossible for us :[
<jrwren> i'm a tiny bit envious.
<greg-g> we were doing something similar out here for a few months, stopped because.. I forget why exactly, but it was nice
<greg-g> oh, because it plus our CSA was too much food
<rick_h__> greg-g: ah, cool
<cmaloney> I'll note that rick_h__ didn't ask me. :)
<rick_h__> cmaloney: :P I offered everyone
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> he knows you only eat pizza like a good coder/sysadmin?
<rick_h__> but I also don't recall cmaloney going "I <3 cooking all the time"
<cmaloney> That's because JoDee is amazed I can boil water without burning the house down
<rick_h__> lol
<cmaloney> Might hit you up later for an invite. Right now our schedule isn't great for eating at home.
<rick_h__> cmaloney: gotcha
<cmaloney> and I'd like to learn more of the art of turning stuff into meals.
<brousch> rick_h__: Invite me to blueapron
<rick_h__> brousch: email addr?
<brousch> brousch@gmail.com
<rick_h__> brousch: sent
<brousch> I do 90% of our cooking, and grocery shopping
<brousch> The worst part for me is clean up. I don't mind prep
<jrwren> my wife does all, but I usually clean up.
<cmaloney> jrwren: ^^
<brousch> We currently have organic veg delivered every 2 weeks
<cmaloney> I'm the dishwasher
<brousch> rick_h__: Thanks. I'm signed up for the trial
<rick_h__> brousch: cool
<jcastro> smoser: rick_h__: I have 2 roku 3's for sale if anyone is interested
<rick_h__> jcastro: thanks but good here
<rick_h__> jcastro: hey do you know how i could stream offline google play movies to a tv w/o internet?
<jcastro> I know I can download onto a device
<jcastro> I am not sure if you can chromecast to a TV from that though
<jcastro> let me test, it'll take my device like 10 min to DL it though
<rick_h__> yea you can't chromecast it
<rick_h__> but rge roku mention reminded me i want to look into that for when i'm camping
<jcastro> I wonder if you could do a tablet with an HDMI Out plug
<rick_h__> so most don't support it. i used to do that with my nexus 7 or 10
<rick_h__> has a cable for it
<smoser> some apps can chromecast offline
<smoser> jcastro, why are you seeling perfectly good roku?
<jcastro> smoser: hardware upgrades so they won't be used, one is missing a roku controller but I got a generic controller that also controls the TV for wife-friendly usage
<jrwren> i know how you can stream off line google play movies to a TV w/o internet. 1. Use Kodi. 2. torrent the same movie. 3. play the movie.
<jrwren> *zing*
<jrwren> sorry, I know that isn't helpful. I just couldn't resist.
<jcastro> that still won't work without internet
<jcastro> would work with plex with the autotranscoding though
<jrwren> um, that works without itnernet. I've done it :p
<jrwren> I mean... step 2 has to be done ahead of time, of course.
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> rick_h__: Adam got a piece of junk android tablet at Fry's last sprint for $40 with a mini sd card slot
<jcastro> http://smile.amazon.com/Proscan-Android-Processor-Lollipop-Certified/dp/B018YGD846/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1458247484&sr=8-1&keywords=cheap+android+tablet
<jcastro> aisrael: ^^^ like that right?
<aisrael> This is the one: http://www.microcenter.com/product/448360/a745_tablet
<jcastro> Marshmellow has a new feature
<jcastro> where you can slap an sd card in
<jcastro> and it will use that + the internal storage as one virtual disk
<jcastro> that way you don't have to manually select where to put content and apps, etc.
<jcastro> so like, one of these with marshmellow would be a perfect syncing machine for the google content
<jrwren> i have something like that. mine is absolute garbage. at least that one has lollipop
<jcastro> it's a 40 dollar tablet
<jcastro> so yeah, heh
<jrwren> yeah.
<jrwren> mine was $60, a copule years ago. I thought, even for $60, I'll be able to use it for something... but no. it really is worthless. basic web browsing... tooo slow.  even youtube is too slow. it can play the video sure, but the app navigation and search is so slow its useless.
<jrwren> Maybe I'm just too demanding.
<jcastro> wait
<jcastro> is today st. patty's day?
<jrwren> paddy not patty.
<jrwren> yes, it is.
<jrwren> http://paddynotpatty.com
<jcastro> why have we not been drinking all day?
<jrwren> I've cut back on drinking a lot.
<aisrael> It's never too late to start
<jrwren>  I'm getting over a terrible cold.
<jcastro> we had bad colds a few weeks ago
<cmaloney> jcastro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSC9A5bPhU4
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-18
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+JimMcCloskey/posts/EjnA4undPTe?utm_source=chrome_ntp_icon&utm_medium=chrome_app&utm_campaign=chrome&pid=6263372578275510018&oid=104080408848055649928
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> for a few more minutes.
<mrgoodcat> 3 more
<mrgoodcat> watching the bald eagle cam?
<mrgoodcat> great view of the baby right now
<mrgoodcat> mom sitting on baby again
<mrgoodcat> false alarm
<greg-g> is this "SlashdotMedia - Fair processing notice" email legit, I've received multiple of them
<gamerchick02> i've gotten one and i'm not sure
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-19
<cmaloney> Morning
<greg-g> cmaloney: are you lost?
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h__> lol
<cmaloney> Morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Heading to Science Olympiad in a few.
<cmaloney> Woo woo. :)
<_stink_> nice!
<cmaloney> Yeah, should be a lot of fun
<cmaloney> afternoon
<rick_h__> party
<cmaloney> So science olympiad 2016 is in the can
<rick_h__> how did it go?
<cmaloney> Went well.
<cmaloney> Lots of students
<rick_h__> jcastro: wtf, MSU went out first roudn?
<rick_h__> jcastro: that's crazy, so many folks had MSU going all the way
<jrwren> i had MSU all the way :}
<jrwren> my bracket is TERRIBLE!
<jrwren> cmaloney: what event did you do?
<cmaloney> jrwren: Astronomy w/ JoDee
<cmaloney> I was "Mr. Baker"
<cmaloney> Or rather, Mr. Baker-Maloney
<jrwren> ha! cool.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-20
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> ish
<rick_h__> just a bit longer
<cmaloney> Only four more minutes. :)
<jcastro> rick_h__: yeah, we got punked
<jcastro> it was sad
<jcastro> we didn't lead the entire game
<jcastro> middle tennessee, lol
<cmaloney> Well, there's always next year
<cmaloney> yadda yadda
<cmaloney> Afternoon. :)
<Dan9er111> hi
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-13
<gamerchick02> uh no? it was working fine before i took the graphics card out
<gamerchick02> i didn't unplug anything except the graphics card.
<gamerchick02> i'm going to bed in a bit... work starts early. booo
<cmaloney> So is the mobo using the internal card?
<jrwren> just general troubleshooting stuff. I haven't done PC repair professionally for 20yrs, but things haven't changed.
<jrwren> oh, maybe when she comes back :)
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> wb
<cmaloney> :)
<rick_h> ty, good to be back
<rick_h> Well...Except for the snow and cold and ...
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Pretty sure coding interviews are just a nice way of telling me that my math skills are shit.
<_stink_> they are stupid.
<_stink_> those interviews, i mean
<cmaloney> Well, it would be nice if they gave you some construvtive feedback
<gamerchick02> lenovo chromebook is awesome.
<cmaloney> so it could be a learning process and not just abject failure.
<_stink_> it's just hazing.
<gamerchick02> hazing can be bad.
<cmaloney> _stink_: Well, it starts off with good intentions, I'm sure
<cmaloney> but it feels a lot like trying to fit through a cookie-cutter
<rick_h> cmaloney: :( I have to say I'm not sure how many folks would pass those things after being out of school for a while
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Even so I was never that good at word problems
<cmaloney> if you give me the formula I might have a fighting chance
<cmaloney> Maybe there's an opening for being the Dalai Lama or something
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/Chris_Randall/status/841396341964128256
<gamerchick02_> cmaloney, isn't the Dalai Lama position passed down by generation?
<cmaloney> Well yeah, but maybe they're looking to shake things up
<cmaloney> Y'know, have a Dalai Lama-elect or something
<cmaloney> or a non-Tibetan
<cmaloney> I'm flexible
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-14
<_stink_> career objective: to be Dalai Lama.
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2017/03/13/open-metalcast-episode-150-one-five-oh/
<_stink_> \m/
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> party
<jrwren> dance dance.
<brousch__> yo
<cmaloney> 6 1/2 years of OMC
<widox> morning
<jrwren> whoa, long time no chat?
<widox> cmaloney: nice
<widox> that's also about how many days I've been without power :(
<rick_h> it's widox wheeee
<rick_h> ouch
<widox> we are lucky enough to be in that group of ~7k without power still
<rick_h> double ouch
<rick_h> "I've been meaning to give the fridge a good clean out..."
<rick_h> keeping warm ok?
<jrwren> yeah, does that old place of yours have a fireplace to keep you warm?
<jrwren> i can't imagine it is insulated very well
<widox> yeah, we have been at Heather's aunt & uncle's for a couple days now
<widox> no fireplace, sadly
<widox> and yeah, not a ton of insulation
<widox> Heather stopped by this morning, said its 33* in there currently
<jrwren> *gasp*
<jrwren> i heard that if you leave a faucet on, dripping, not a lot, a drip every few seconds is enough, it will help prevent pipe freeze
<widox> I've heard that as well. we actually did that yesterday. so fingers crossed
<cmaloney> widox: Ugh. Did you just get power back?
<widox> cmaloney: no, still out
<cmaloney> Or are you still without?
<cmaloney> :(
<cmaloney> Fuck
<widox> ETA is 11:30pm today
<widox> (again)
<cmaloney> We lost ours until Saturday afternoon. To still be without power sucks.
<widox> kinda messes things up...
<cmaloney> I said "amazing beard Matt is still without power" to JoDee. She remarked that she doesn't want your amazing beard to freeze and hopes you get power back soon.
<jrwren> amazing beards are meant to freeze and be a protective layer while in the elements.
<widox> :D
<widox> thanks. at least there isn't any snow today to slow DTE down any further
<cmaloney> Yeah, no joke.
<greg-g> cmaloney: 6.5 years of OMC? wow
<rick_h> +1 that's awesome
<cmaloney> greg-g: Yeah
<cmaloney> Started in August 2010. Just hit Episode 150
<cmaloney> (not counting the club metal / instrumetalcasts / interviews)
<cmaloney> (thank you. :) )
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-15
<widox> morning
<widox> finally got power back yesterday evening!
<rick_h> widox: congrats!
<rick_h> Hope you can get home and put stuff back together
<widox> rick_h: thanks. yeah we got back and the heat had kicked back on, so at least it was warm :)
<widox> nice to be back at my desk
<cmaloney> widox: Glad you finally have power back
<widox> cmaloney: thanks. good to be back in the land of good coffee and mechanical keyboards :D
<rick_h> widox: hah, it's the small things we miss
<rick_h> When I get back from sprints I just want a decent sized monitor, a drive in my truck, and some of my own coffee
<rick_h> oh, and real internet connectivity
<jrwren> i just want to sleep in my own bed and sit in my own chair and eat light food
<rick_h> yea, normally I don't gain weight on sprints but damn I did this one
<rick_h> should have stayed in the hotel where the food was awful. Would have eaten a lot less
<jrwren> i didn't. I was reasonably carefu.
<jrwren> and I did 30min of cardio on Tuesday and WEdnesday.
<jrwren> it wasn't until wednesday afternoon that I started feeling sick.
<cmaloney> Where was this last sprint?
<rick_h> New Orleans
<cmaloney> Oh boy
<cmaloney> yeah, you're kind of screwed in the diet department
<jrwren> not really.
<jrwren> I mean, if you let yourself go... yes.
<rick_h> Yea, only had beignets one day
<rick_h> :)
<jrwren> but if you are doing low carb, all it takes is ignoring beignets.
<jrwren> the rest is delicious meat :)
<jrwren> I only had 1 bite of a beignet, I think.
<jrwren> It reminded me of paczki which I had just had the tuesday prior.
<rick_h> It was like if someone made a funnel cake but instead of funneling it into loops just plopped it out at once
<jrwren> but the first night I was there I was hungry and we found a place and nothing really stood out on the menu, so I decided on ribs, but they didn't have 1/2 rack, only full rack.  ZOMG
<jrwren> rick_h: what was the best thing that you ate there?
<rick_h> jrwren: honestly, nothing jumps out. I had a good red beans one day. Most things were kind of average to be honest.
<jrwren> rick_h: same here. nothing was bad, but nothing was really great either.
<SneakyPhil> widox: do you live out in the boonies?
<SneakyPhil> we were lucky and got it back early Sunday morning
<cmaloney> SneakyPhil: Worse - Detroit
<widox> SneakyPhil: heh, Detroit. Corktown neighborhood
<widox> we just happened to be in a small cluster of houses without power
<widox> actually, we had a partial outage; so we fell low on the list. even though we had no heat because of it :-/
<SneakyPhil> :(
<SneakyPhil> that blows
<greg-g> dangit, my new standing desk arrived 6 days early! I wasn't ready!
<brousch__> So use a stool until you're strong enough
<jrwren> lol
<greg-g> not in that way, in that I don't have my current desk clean yet!
<greg-g> I'll just dump it all in a box, then let that box sit there on the floor for a few months
<_stink_> s/ a few months/ever
<cmaloney> Nah, eventually you can just throw out the box
<greg-g> cmaloney: you haven't seen our garage....
<greg-g> That's a half joke. It's bad, but... well, this is a marital issue that I should stop talking about ;)
<cmaloney> I have those same boxes
<cmaloney> "Honey, can't we put the books in this box on the shelf so we know what we have?" "No, they stay in the box"
<cmaloney> (usually followed by a "you're one to talk" followed by a carefully-laid-out point-by-point dissection of all of my shit in the basement)
<brousch__> I have a basement full of them
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> we still have boxes from the move 4yrs ago.
<jrwren> CDs, because we don't actually need those anymore.
<brousch__> We moved in 2001
<jrwren> and books :)
<cmaloney> I still use the CDs. Those are like the old Autodesk boxes.
<cmaloney> where you have to keep the packaging to keep the license.
<jrwren> ha!
<cmaloney> but when we had the power out I also have the backup copy to listen to on a CD player
<brousch__> CDs exist so you can rip to the latest digital format every 5 years
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> or for when you blitz your drive in an upgrade
<jrwren> yeah, 5 yrs ago, I think disk was $$$ enough that I didn't flac 'em all. now I flac 'em all and transcode for whatever quality format :)
<greg-g> yup, flac or nothing at this point for me
<jrwren> its funny, i bought some CDs recently and it included digital download, but I forgot and ripped 'em myself anyway.  Old habbits die hard, I guess.
<cmaloney> I get discs of stuff that I download in Bandcamp
<greg-g> Lately I've only been downloading (flac) from bandcamp/etc, no discs, except for special bands
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-17
<jrwren> greg-g: ballast point is over priced junk anyway. I bought it once, when it was newly distributed to MI, and will never try it again. its at a 50% premium price for -50% quality.
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> good morning!
<jrwren> oh, greg-g tweeted a thing about ballast point beer sponsoring facisim with their monies.
<cmaloney> ah
<cmaloney> oh geez, it's a Jack White beer.
<greg-g> jrwren: totally
<jrwren> jack white beer?
<jrwren> isn't anything from atwater a jack white beer?
<cmaloney> NFc
<cmaloney> Also heartened that I can't even get a job as a Microcenter technician because they need CompTIA A+ certification.
<_stink_> :/
<jrwren> lol.
<brousch__> -__-
<cmaloney> http://n-gate.com/
<wolfger> whut? Jack White is facist and/or is involved in Atwater? I'm confused.
<jrwren> only greg can tell
<greg-g> lol
<cmaloney> jcastro: Congratulations!
<cmaloney> https://blog.jorgecastro.org/2017/03/17/service-jorge-stop-git-rebase-heptio-master-service-jorge-start/
<jcastro> thanks man!
<cmaloney> jcastro: So when can we get a talk about Kubernetes at MUG? :)
<jcastro> I'll need like 6 months at least lol
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Are you staying in MI?
<jcastro> yeah
<cmaloney> Coolness
<cmaloney> And of course when jcastro leaves Ubuntu it makes reddit and Phoronix. ;)
<cmaloney> https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/6003yd/longtime_ubuntu_contributor_cloud_liaison_leaving/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-18
<jrwren> well... he's kind of an icon.
<cmaloney> Canonical has lost its four horsemen
<jrwren> who were they?
<cmaloney> Holbach was one
<jrwren> Jono
<jrwren> jorge.
<jrwren> who is 4th?
<cmaloney> I wan tto say Michael Hall, but I'm not sure that's correct
<jrwren> no, he is still there.
<cmaloney> and then there were a few others that expanded the ranks
<jrwren> oh, lots.
<cmaloney> Gotta love it when you get a recommendation to follow j1mc and see that Barack Obama is also following him.
<jrwren> whos dat?
<cmaloney> jrwren: The last president of the USA
<jrwren> last president!!?!?  oh no! USA is ending?
<greg-g> jrwren: you didn't notice?
<jrwren> greg-g: lol.   i noticed.
<_stink_> congrats jcastro!
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, USA will be canceled like THe Apprentice
<cmaloney> we had a good run
<rick_h> ugh, is there anything scarier than ordering hard drives? "OMG lost all my data 1 star!"
<jrwren> hahaha, too true!
<jrwren> which reminds me, I need to stop being cheap and mirror some data :)
<rick_h> yea, I'm getting to time to upgrade my NAS from 2TB to 4 I think
<jrwren> oh definitely it is time.
<rick_h> but damn, so many different drives even though it's only like 3 companies now and they all have 6-16% 1-star reviews with big scary reviews
<jrwren> but then, i'm 13TB :)
<rick_h> well at 1.5 of 2TB in a mirror
<jrwren> I just learned about WD "GOLD" drives recently. They are the enterprise class drives.
<rick_h> 13TB? nice
<rick_h> heh, black, green, red, blue, and now gold!
<rick_h> "how much do you care about this data on a scale of 1 to 5?"
<jrwren> hahaha.
<rick_h> I didn't realize they were up to 16TB disks
<jrwren> they aren't, are they?
<jrwren> I thought the 16TB NAS was 2 - 8TB drives.
<rick_h> I  http://a.co/iqtmOGG
<rick_h> oh sorry, yea 8TB disks
<rick_h> I was thinking 16 for the pair of them
<jrwren> there is a 10TB there too!
<jrwren> I didn't know about those.
<rick_h> actually a 10TB there as well :/
<jrwren> i'm cheap so I go for value and then mirror... but then i'm cheap and break the mirror, and use hte space, lol.
<jrwren> i've been very lucky.
 * jrwren knocks on wood
<rick_h> lol
<jrwren> i feel like i've been playing press your luck.
<jrwren> i've gotta stop thinking about it. it will stress me out ;)
<rick_h> I should not be cheap and do more than just double the space to 4TB
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> time to start the "important NAS"
<rick_h> and the "if it goes boom then oh well" NAS
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-12
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink__> hello
<rick_h> morning
 * rick_h looks at weather forecast and starts to get annoyed with snow
<cmaloney> rick_h: But snow is awesome
<cmaloney> Let's have it all year long! :)
<rick_h> yea...except I'm getting the camper out in 2 weeks for spring break
 * cmaloney shuts up before rick_h deploys the tactical nukes
<rick_h> and I'd really prefer to have lows above freezing so it doesn't explode
<cmaloney> Yeah, exploding campers are no fun
<rick_h> having them in the 20s in the 10 day forecast is kind of ... :(
<cmaloney> too many fluids, not enough walls
<rick_h> and the snow is just the visual aid to my frustration heh
<rick_h> yea...that's the general idea
<cmaloney> or rather insulation
<_stink__> and why is it that 30 deg F feels so nice in January but feels so cold in March
<cmaloney> _stink__: Winter blood
<cmaloney> Or rather it should last through March
<rick_h> yea, March is always tricky. Usually there start to be warm spikes so have to get the snow tires off
<rick_h> but then it'll give one last snow just for fun
<cmaloney> https://mastodon.social/@julianruf/99671428968815735
<rick_h> lol nice
<cmaloney> Registered for a conference pack from Canonical for Penguicon
<cmaloney> I love some of the questions they ask
<cmaloney> stuff like how active is the group
<rick_h> hah, I'm surprised it's still available tbh
<cmaloney> well, we're still doing release parties, so um... :)
<cmaloney> rick_h: Yeah, I'm always surprised that it hasn't been shuttered
<cmaloney> There's only 13 verified loco teams
<cmaloney> And in the uSA it's Washington DC, Arizona, and Florida
<jrwren> i'm surprised they invest ANYTHING in desktop or end-user ubuntu.
<cmaloney> Inertia?
<cmaloney> NFC
<cmaloney> It became a bit of a standard and now it's getting pissed away
<cmaloney> but w/e.
<cmaloney> honestly if we don't get anything that's one less thing for me to carry to PCon.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-13
<waldo323> good morning
<_stink__> yo
<rick_h> party
<Scary_Guy> morning
<jrwren> Good Morning.
<jrwren> Why does it feel like 8:10 and not 9:10?
<rick_h> jrwren: ummm....because stuff
<jrwren> :)
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> Fuck DST
<cmaloney> That's all I'll say
<rick_h> I hate it but damn I'm glad to have the later sunlight
<rick_h> I just blame jetlag for it all since the clocks went back my first day back from UTC+1
<jrwren> yeah, great timing for you rick_h
<jrwren> i should have planned a trip for easier adjusting. for some reason my internal chronometer isn't adjusting easily this time.
<rick_h> hah "sorry boss, I need to take a few days of medical leave to head to Europe and back"
<jrwren> hahaha!
<cmaloney> Apparently I'm the only person that would rather noon show up properly on a sundial
<waldo323> sometimes(not this time unfortunately), I start setting some of my clocks ahead early (not so smart watch, microwave, car)
<jrwren> you are the only one cmaloney
<cmaloney> jrwren: I am so lonely
<rick_h> sad/funny "But he had gotten an oblique warning of what was coming the previous Friday from the White House chief of staff, John F. Kelly, who called to tell him to cut short a trip to Africa and advised him âyou may get a tweet.â"
<rick_h> twitter has a new business model as an HR tool?
<brousch> rick_h: Try that as a management style
<Scary_Guy> so, looks like I'm missing tonight.  car isn't doing too good so I need to take it into the shop
<cmaloney> Scary_Guy: Sorry to hear that
<cmaloney> https://icosahedron.website/@technomancy/99677580694718340 <- re: Golang
<Zimdale> well shit hopefully I can get there on time.
<jrwren> cmaloney: i lolled
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-14
<cmaloney> jrwren: :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-15
<waldo323> good afternoon
<cmaloney> Howdy
<jrwren> what is so good about it?
<cmaloney> One day closer to the heat-death of the universe?
<jrwren> oh, ok
<waldo323> it is almost Friday, and almost St Patrick's day?
<jrwren> last night I watched S7 ep 25 of ST:TNG with my kiddo.
<waldo323> our zenoss is mostly working?
<waldo323> nice
<jrwren> I tried to explain to her the importance of Steven Hawking
<waldo323> how'd it go?
<jrwren> i'm not sure that she really fathoms it
<brousch> My son was also uninterested. He didn't know who it was until I showed him a picture. "Oh that dude!"
<brousch> If it's not in a video game, it doesn't matter
<jrwren> kids are terrible.
<jrwren> Shortly after, my daughter sang, "Putting on our dancing shoes
<jrwren> Going to the discotheque
<jrwren> Getting high and getting wrecked"
<jrwren> and my jaw dropped and I said, "WHAT?!? GETTING HIGH?!?!?!"
<jrwren> I had to google the lyrics and discover it is a Charli XCX song
<jrwren> I've failed as a parent.
<brousch> I don't know what that is
<brousch> EMPUG?! https://www.meetup.com/empugdotorg/events/247701835/
<cmaloney> Yes, i think that's a new thing
<cmaloney> New as in since 2016.
<cmaloney> (*blush*)
<jrwren> lol, i just typed 'artsy" instead of "artful"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-16
<Scary_Guy> cmaloney, thanks for reminding me about our impending doom.  even if we solve death somehow we either need to escape this universe into a new dimension or break the laws of thermodynamics and create energy from nothing
<Scary_Guy> we all get to die three times.  first when we actually die, then when we get thought about for the last time, and finally when the energy that made up us is frozen in a block of ice at absolute zero
<Scary_Guy> well, that's my hypothesis anyway
<Scary_Guy> and no, nihilism is not as fun as it sounds :-(
<_stink__> that'll get you going on a friday morning
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> good am
<Scary_Guy> morning
<jrwren> Good Morning
<jrwren> rick_h: https://medium.com/delightful-treats/nest-video-doorbell-first-impressions-a-surprise-ending-2bbba9adf810  ut oh
<cmaloney> Surprise ending?
<cmaloney> What could be surprising about this?
<Scary_Guy> well, I don't think he expected it with the other two services working fine
<Scary_Guy> not that Next might be an inferior device, it may have just been the one active when the transformer decided to blow.  they don't last forever, nothing does
<jrwren> nearly burning down his house is a surprise.
<jrwren> rick_h isn't wiring his to a transformer anyway, so we don't have to worry about him.
<Scary_Guy> it's in the Nest firmware, so if you piss them off or cancel they just burn down your house
<jrwren> Scary_Guy: wow... or... hackers get root on it and just run commands to increase power draw and BAM, house burning down.
<jrwren> internet of shit at its finest.
<Scary_Guy> because just how many sci-fi movies where the smart house tries to kill its owner are there?  Oh and that Outer Limits episode.  Pretty sure there's a trope for this
<cmaloney> At it's basest trope is man vs. machine
<cmaloney> but yeah, house-connected eqquipment vs.man
<jrwren> House is one of the best comedy horror movies of all time. There. I said it.
<Scary_Guy> yeah, but that's supernatural based
<Scary_Guy> I'm thinking more like Electric Dreams
<Scary_Guy> or Fortress
<jrwren> ha! Fortress!
<Scary_Guy> that's the movie that inspired me to make my keyboard chair
<jrwren> hey, I actually have an ubuntu question!
<Scary_Guy> https://imgur.com/a/WqwHR is a lot like mine
<Scary_Guy> well, I have those same arm rest attachments that the keyboard(s) sit on
<jrwren> when I run ubuntu on a certified cloud, the cloud image automagically has the cloud tools for that cloud. e.g. amazon cli tools in ec2, azure cli tools in azure, gcloud in google compute.  But if I am running docker images based on ubuntu, I don't get that. What are the names of the packages for each certified cloud?
<jrwren> I should ask on askubuntu.
<Scary_Guy> you'd probably cast a wider net that's for sure
<jrwren> ya know what would be really interesting if some samba client apps started accepting port number and we rant it over the internet, like SFTP only better and faster.
<cmaloney> I'm not sure I would trust Samba over the internet like that. :)
<cmaloney> (though I'm likely misunderstanding the sentiment)
<jrwren> cmaloney: why not? modern samba is very secure.
<jrwren> cmaloney: I'm talking encrypted SMB3 only.
<cmaloney> Samba always felt a little too promiscuous to me
<cmaloney> partly because it seemed to announce itself on the network and say "hey, I'm a file server!"
<jrwren> you have to let go of your feelings.
<cmaloney> and that felt like a prelude to disaster
<jrwren> hahaha, except EVERYTHING announces itself now.
<cmaloney> I still haven't forgiven Bon Jour. ;)
<jrwren> SSDP and upnp and so on.
<jrwren> no mdns for you?
<cmaloney> God, upnp is a disaster imho
<jrwren> dlna!
<cmaloney> Stahp
<cmaloney> Next you're going to say that whatever they used on routers to automatically pair them was a great idea.
 * cmaloney is blanking on the acronym
<jrwren> I let go of my smb1 past because i learned long ago not to consider the past, only the here and now.
<jrwren> e.g. My team lead once prefered telnet to ssh because ssh once had a security whole which allowed access for all and telnet didn't.
<jrwren> WPS.  no, i've never WPS. neveer, not even once.
<cmaloney> Right, but I have a hard time with MS protocols because they tend to treat security as a secondary level of access
<cmaloney> Yeah, WPS.
<cmaloney> God, that's a clusterfuck
<jrwren> I don't even consider SMB2 or SMB3 as MSFT protocols. I guess I'm crazy like that.
<jrwren> And their treatment of security as secondary hasnt' been true in about 15yrs.
<cmaloney> Um, weren't they responsible for pushing upnp?
<cmaloney> maybe I'm mis-attributing that to them
<jrwren> yeah, I dont' know.
<cmaloney> but it seemed they were at the forefront of pushing protocols that did things that were transparent to the user that could damage security
<jrwren> I know very little about upnp
<cmaloney> and upnp seemed at the forefront of that. :)
<jrwren> You mean like automatically pass your windows login password as the password to connect to remote shares?  I always loved that feature :)
<cmaloney> yyyyeaahhh.
<cmaloney> http://www.upnp-hacks.org/
<jrwren> Conficker!!!
<jrwren> still, "SANE 2006"  I said 15 yrs, but that was only 12. so sorry.
<cmaloney> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/01/to-prevent-hacking-disable-universal-plug-and-play-now/
<cmaloney> I mean, these are old, but they seem to describe a pattern of ease-of-use vs security
<cmaloney> "There are a number of articles describing how many UPnP capable routers don't check if an IP is internal before opening the ports. You can knock from the outside to open say, 3389 and scan through the typical LAN addresses to see if anyone is home. "
<cmaloney> A lot of it is naive implementations of standard protocols
<jrwren> so... that is routers, not MSFT, right?
<cmaloney> right
<cmaloney> But again, it's the promiscuous nature of the protocol that gives me pause
<jrwren> you are projecting that.
<cmaloney> Not that it's a unique problem of Microsoft, to be fair
<jrwren> there is absolutely nothing promiscuous about smb3
<cmaloney> Maybe it is
<cmaloney> but that's something I'm having a hard time shaking
<cmaloney> I really don't like CIFS / Samba
<cmaloney> and that's likely in part because I don't understand it and I don't trust it
<cmaloney> but then again I trust NFS, so that is likely misplaced trust as well. ;)
<cmaloney> (and not even NFS v4)
<jrwren> ha! yeah.
<jrwren> if you trust an untrusted host to mount NFS shares, you REALLY need to learn why not to.
<cmaloney> Oh absolutely
<jrwren> SMB on the other hand is built for that.
<cmaloney> I don't trust untrusted hosts with NFS
<cmaloney> but I haven't gone to the level of NFSv4 because ugh
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> this is why i like smb so much. less complexity than a secure nfs, and just as secure.
<jrwren> and its FAST
<jrwren> why is https://packages.cloud.google.com/apt/doc/apt-key.gpg empty on one client and non empty on antoehr client?
<cmaloney> CDN?
<jrwren> must be.
<jrwren> same client network even.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-10
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-11
<Scary_Guy> Night
<Scary_Guy> Dumb question, how does one change a drive label on an encrypted disk?  It has to be unmounted to do so, but then it's encrypted and can't be accessed.  What do?
<jrwren> so... apparently security vulnerabilities get trailers now... lviattack.eu check out the first youtube video
<cmaloney> Reminds me of the cracktros
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-13
<jrwren> https://latacora.micro.blog/2020/03/12/the-soc-starting.html  i'm reminded how much I hate IT
<cmaloney> SOC2 is... ?
<cmaloney> I feel I should know this, since it's talking about SSO and such
<jrwren> I'm not even sure. some spec for compliance.
<jrwren> I don't work in that area of the security or it industry
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_and_Organization_Controls
<jrwren> thats it.
<cmaloney> It looks like a particular reporting for this for cloud providers
<cmaloney> of course there's no information about it other than outdated Wikipedia articles that read like dissertations and every consultant on the planet selling you compliance
<jrwren> all part of the security racket.
<cmaloney> WEll, like buying yourself a blanket for security
<cmaloney> or getting a vaccine that makes you super-powered against everything else.
<jrwren> so... how about that  systemd-homed and systemd-repart?
<cmaloney> I think it's kinda asinine
<cmaloney> but then again I'm not all about encrypting filesystems, so I'm likely not the target audience for this
<cmaloney> I'm not a fan of little blobs of data either, which apparently makes me a minority
<cmaloney> But then again I hated Pulseaudio until it worked, so I just assume it's a matter of time before I'm using it without caring
<cmaloney> I'm sure the corporate users will love it, though
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-14
<jrwren> anyone know of alternatives for basecamp personal for non-software projects.
<cmaloney> what features of Basecamp are you looking to replicate?
<jrwren> i don't know. i guess i don't know basecamp.
<jrwren> message board, to-dos, docs & files, chat, maybe even schedule, although I don't really need that.
<cmaloney> I can think of projects for each of those, but nothing that's quite as integrated
<jrwren> right.
<gamerchick02> Notion?
<gamerchick02> Notion is web-based, if you're into that
<jrwren> the email client?
<jrwren> https://twitter.com/davecporter/status/1238183623624396802?s=20 hahah
<gamerchick02> no the notes client: notion.so
<gamerchick02> https://www.notion.so/
<cmaloney> The "admin tools" being Enterprise makes me a little curious what that means
<cmaloney> Looking for alternatives to Asana lead me to https://www.openproject.org/
<cmaloney> But that's more project management than collaboration
<cmaloney> Hive looks like it integrates with different products like Slack and Dropbox
<gamerchick02> it's free for something like 1000 "bits" of data, so you can give it a go and if it expands out then pay.
<gamerchick02> i don't know, it seems to be a neat platform. i'd check out their reddit for design ideas and "how to's"
<cmaloney> Yeah, Notion looks quite nice
<gamerchick02> i mean it's an idea! :)
<gamerchick02> and free to start
