#edubuntu 2006-03-20
<iGotNoTime> Good evening beautiful people!!!!
<magnon> ogra?
<iGotNoTime> ogra they fixed my video problem :D I needed a codec
<iGotNoTime> hi magnon :)
<magnon> hi burg
<iGotNoTime> in the core apps of Edubuntu what can I use to burn ISO's ?
<magnon> cdrecord should be around
<iGotNoTime> ok :)
<iGotNoTime> didn't know it would do ISO
<magnon> only thing I ever used it for :P
<magnon> hi again, burg :)
<Burgundavia> salut
<Burgundavia> wireless is flaky here
<iGotNoTime> noob question.... Why does my system clock reset 4-5 times per day and the time is never the same as what my watch says or to what I have set it for?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: http://live.gnome.org/Epiphany/ChildrensBrowser any thoughts?
* highvoltage looks
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: i think it's a nice idea. might be useful for a kiosk mode if you want computers in a creche
<Burgundavia> ogra is planning on a kiosk mode, but plans to use FF, due to the gnome deps of epiphany
<highvoltage> i've also wondered before if using epiphany instead of firefox would save space on the CD
<highvoltage> but i think people would be upset if they didn't get firefox
<Burgundavia> no they wouldn't
<Burgundavia> most especially not in education
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: do you know anybody with python knowledge?
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: what are you doing with the edubuntu website?
<JaneW> jsgotangco has the cutest daughter ever
<JaneW> she needs to be our edubuntu mascot :)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl2
<highvoltage> :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: yeah http://www.flickr.com/photos/jsgotangco/112677442/
<ogra> magnon isa back !!
<ogra> *is
<ogra> hey magnon :)
<ogra> morning all
<magnon> hey ogra :) you got my mail?
<ogra> form today ? 
<ogra> i just got up ...
<highvoltage> hi ogra and magnon
<magnon> no, couple of weeks ago
<highvoltage> JaneW: btw, i like all this posting to edubuntu-devel, it makes a nice buzz :)
<ogra> magnon, oh, yes... what happened ?
<JaneW> yup, I have been trying to keep up to date there again...
<JaneW> of course now my inbox is suffering! ;)
<magnon> ogra: well - lots of things I haven't been good at talking about that kind of found its way into bugging my head a tad too much.
<magnon> but today is a turnover day
<ogra> yay
<magnon> got a new job :)
<ogra> great to have you back :)
<ogra> we missed you+
<magnon> thanks :) and now I'm really going to do all what I wanted to do
<magnon> ...after I watch you guys release dapper :D
<highvoltage> magnon: cool, where are you working now?
<ogra> magnon, this will likely happen on june 1st ...
<magnon> highvoltage: Basefarm - norwegian server hosting company
<magnon> ah, you pushed it?
<ogra> seems we'll postpone ...
<magnon> ok
<magnon> good, I think ;)
<ogra> its not finally decided yet
<ogra> afaik
<magnon> highvoltage: running sites for the two largest norwegian and two largest swedish newspapers, second biggest norwegian airline, Oslo officials, norwegian finance authorities, and so on :)
<highvoltage> wow, sounds like a big job :)
<ogra> yeah
<magnon> yeah, I'm very happy. Just got the phone call an hour ago
<magnon> don't know the salary yet, but... :)
<ogra> as long as its a reason to stand up in the morning, its good :)
<magnon> urgh. They have microsoft.no too :p
<highvoltage> does that mean you'll be working with IIS machines too? poor magnon!
<magnon> yeah... but I asked if I could get preinstalled ubuntu on my workstation, and they said they would try :p
<tsurc> Any one have any sugestions on getting hydrogen to work with the thin-client?
<tsurc> hydrogen-- drum machine. uses jack, alsa, oss. but no esd !
<tsurc> the kids in the school are really keen to try it out!
<ogra> neither of jack alsa oss support network transport ...
<ogra> can it do nasd ? 
<ogra> (we have nas support in the code, but its completely untested)
<tsurc> don't know but i'll see. and if it has (or as an added module) then now would be a good time to test it don't you think?
<tsurc> I'm prob' letting myself in for a lot of greef, but hey who cares !
<ogra> we dont support nas anyway, its just an add on debian needs :)
<ogra> but if it helps you, then its fine :)
<tsurc> ;-)
<ogra> we'll find a better sound solution for dapper+1 or +2 ... this was the cheap one ...
<tsurc> now that is strange.. I just install flight 5 on another server we have... and no sound.
<tsurc> does it matter if there is a sound card in the server or not?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> but you have to set SOUND=True in lts.conf
<tsurc> done already
<JaneW> ** Reminder** Meeting in 27 minutes in #u-m as usual, you know the drill ;)
<JaneW> Burgwork: I just found your latest planet post...lol
<JaneW> 'Launchpad eats kittens'!
<pips1_away> JaneW, I'll be a bit late for the meeting today, but i'll try to be there
<JaneW> ok thanks
<ogra> and i wont have much to tell :)
<ogra> will be a short meeting i guess
<JaneW> ogra: *hope*
<JaneW> ** Reminder** Meeting in 2 minutes in #u-m as usual, you know the drill ;)
<ogra> hmm, march 08 is already over ...
* ogra fixes topic
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] :  Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: March 15 at 12:00 UTC | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | Flight 5 is out, grab it while its hot http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-5/
<JaneW> ty
<kjcole> yagisan, these  meetings always fall  when I'm barely awake and on  my way to work.    but  I  think we're pretty hungry for  recipes.  My only  concern  is that teachers  who don't worry about security  under microsoft need to feel  good  about switching to edubuntu
<Yagisan> sure
<flint> hey kevin...
<Yagisan> I understand. I'm not going to suggest things like pax/execsheild
<Yagisan> I'm scanning the cookbook notes on the wiki now. As I see areas that can be improved I'll make a note
<kjcole> hey flint...
<Yagisan> eg, the world readable home directories
<flint> Yagisan, I have a suggested reciepe for security, and it is pretty radical.  Keep in mind you are training young minds...
<Yagisan> that is something a teacher may want to change
<kjcole> flint: core wars? ;-)
<Yagisan> sure flint, go ahead
<flint> Yagisan, the basic concept is that these young monsters either become our allies or our adversaries.  the project will fail if the security is a jail.
<flint> Yagisan, the Jail approach has failed for Window$.  
<Yagisan> of course. But child proofing the system is a good idea. It's not fun if the 3rd kid in the back row launches a fork bomb on the server because he typed "smileys" in a command prompt
<Yagisan> and the server crashes
<flint> someone who takes root needs to be trained, not punished.  secuity systems in this case identify and educate only.
<flint> the thing is protected from fork bombs.  there is a fork limit.
<kjcole> also,  some  mechanism for protecting  your homework from the lazy  might  be in   order...
<Yagisan> yes, eg by default all of /home can be read by any user on the system
<flint> the opportunity here is for SATE.  Security Awareness Trainnig and Education, which is not exciting, but vital.
<flint> Yagisan, I will check that.  
<kjcole> yagisan, perhaps  something in  /etc/skel or wherever that  creates a  public and  private   area in  each  home dir
<flint> kjcole, if this world writable space is correct this is a bug.  it needs to be fixed i
<Yagisan> kjcole: that's a lot of effort
<Yagisan> kjcole: flint: sudo dpkg-reconfigure adduser
<Yagisan> say no
<Yagisan> then add users
<flint> Yagisan, you would agree that all reading the entire /home tree is a bug eh?
<Yagisan> problem fixed
<Yagisan> flint: for a school - yes
<Yagisan> flint: that is a case by case call for this
<kjcole> yagisan, how so?    (I didn't think  changing  the  defaults  for  new users  was that  complex)
<flint> Yagisan, where would it not be a bug.   is this not written for use in a school?
<Yagisan> flint: well, my work systems have no expectation of privacy, so its not-a-bug there.
<tsurc> the ltspfs and ltspfsd packages in dapper, does anyone have any information on there use in flight5
<Yagisan> flint: but on my non work systems, it is a bug
<flint> Yagisan, yet you have an expectation that your work will not be Destroyed, Altered or Copied.
<kjcole> yagisan, I  admit I  haven't set  up a lot   of  users, but  I  thought whatever was dropped into /etc/skel (or somewhere  similar) was  automatically popped  into  directories  when  new  users are  created...
<tsurc> rather than follow the instructions on the ltsp wiki to build my own I thought i'd use the ones ogra did.
<Yagisan> kjcole: is just a simple permission change in the adduser script. You can change it yourself after the fact. I just think they picked the wrong default
<ogra> tsurc, they are outdated 
<flint> I have my edubuntu demo box turned off.  I am going to go and turn it on.
<ogra> tsurc, but ltsp.org isnt ready yet as well... i'm waiting for themm to finish
<tsurc> thanks for that. I'll roll my own and see how they go :)
<ogra> tsurc, yep, sbalneav made some ubuntu related improvements recently
<Yagisan> flint: with the default permissions, all that can be done is Copied, 
<tsurc> Ooooo *rubs hands together in excitment*
<flint> Yagisan, I need to get to the other meeting...  I will be back here with my data.
<kjcole> yagisan,  I  agree,  but  I  was also suggesting  that  many teachers will want  areas where students can collaborate, and look  at each other's  stuff.  Perhaps  a recipe  showing them  how  to create sandbox  areas for  kiddies  to  play together...
<Yagisan> kjcole: yes, I know. It's interesting when you have two separate goals. 1) to prevent cheating, 2) to encourage collaboration
<Yagisan> there is no pure techincal solution to it
<kjcole> Yagisan, Secure  by default is definitely the right  way to start, though.   Peace  of mind and all that.
<Yagisan> of course. Best would be for me to look at each page in the cookbook as I have time, and offer suggestions (if needed) on how to secure it
<kjcole> well,  i  feel  we  sort of  went off in different directions with the cookbook.   it started life as  a rewrite  of  the  tuxlab  cookbook,  and  much  of  what  jeff  or  I have  done  with it still has  that flavor.  but we werent  progressing fast enough.
<kjcole> so  we  opened it  up to more contributors and re-thought  it as a  collection of recipes, since it's called  a  "cookbook".
<Yagisan> yeah. I've noticed some stuff I'd disagree with re minimum hardware in thin clients, 
<Yagisan> Ok. I'll do up a basically securing ubuntu doc as I get time, but I'll need some help
<kjcole> jeff is  actually in a  classroom using the  thin client  stuff.   I never have. I  follow  his lead on a lot of this.
<Yagisan> basically - I need people to go, Yagisan, this is to tech
<Yagisan> kjcole: I reworked edubuntu to use at work
<Yagisan> I wanted the thin client stuff
<Yagisan> my kids are too young to use it
<kjcole> i think both jeff  and i would be able to  "play  non-tech"  quite easily.  too easily. ;-)
<Yagisan> excellent
<Yagisan> my fault (no that I'd admit to it) is that I can be too technical
<kjcole> My fault is that i'm too scattered.  I'm trying to learn a little about a lot.
<kjcole> Anyway I need to get ready for work and hustle out the door.
<Yagisan> no worries - my wife has been calling me for an hour
<Yagisan> I should leave soon too
<kjcole> heh.   later then.
<Yagisan> it's "Jamie, come to bed, it's midnight!"
<highvoltage> hi
<highvoltage> how was the meeting?
* highvoltage 'll catch up later
<highvoltage> bye!
<JaneW> ogra: I see \sh is still alive...
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> JaneW, the question of the guy wasnt foolish, i just have no idea about KlamAV and apparently he already noticed that other KDE apps work
<JaneW> ogra: agreed, I didn;t want him scared off by no response
<JaneW> and him thinking he was being shunned
<JaneW> when in fact we just don't know how to answer the Q
<iGotNoTime> I have a question...Why does my system clock reset 4-5 times per day and the time is never the same as what my watch says or to what I have set it for?
<ogra> iGotNoTime, doesnt happen on any machine here
<iGotNoTime> ok :)
<iGotNoTime> must be something I installed then
<ogra> or a setting you made
<Burgwork> I got a great email from that person who has the email "A Teacher"
<Burgwork> "Thanks Corey
<Burgwork> I am already impressed with the support i've received.  It is refereshing to work with people who are actually interested in helping me.
<Burgwork> Andrea"
<highvoltage> burgandavia++ :)
<highvoltage> anybody here? the channel is awfully quiet.
<spacey> :)
<tsurc_> I got bonding to work on edubuntu-dapper today. Does anyone think it would be good to write an article on the subject on the wiki.
<ogra> absolutely !
<tsurc_> I'm not an expert, but i can tell you what i did t get it working for me.
<ogra> thats totally enough ...
<ogra> its a wiki, there might be experts to flesh it out :)
<tsurc_> we do however have a switch that supports .ad (Dynamic link aggrigation) so its not really that cheap to implement.
<ogra> still, its valuable info for someone in the same situation, even if it might be a cornercase
<tsurc_> great..
<flint> ogra, ollie, you awake?
<ogra> flint, partially :)
<flint> ogra, believe me when I tell you you need your beauty rest... :^)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i'm poking the screensaver and its bugs, needs to be done :)
<flint> stoopid question, I cannot log onto wiki.edubuntu.org.  has someone finally begun to take security seriously and thrown me off?
<ogra> hmm, i can ...
<ogra> probably ask in #launchpad ...
<flint> the wiki normally has a logon button in the left hand corner.  on mine it says locked...
<flint> ogra, who did i piss off (i mean recently :^)
<flint> ?
<Burgwork> I think the ubuntu wiki is locked due to lp being down
<ogra> hmm, dunno, must be someone from the launchpad team ...
<ogra> :)
<flint> ogra, it is a gift I have FITS!!!!
<ogra> Burgwork, i'm logged in and can edit
<Burgwork> hmm
<flint> let me track this thanks folks!
<ogra> but i didnt close my browser for a week ...
<ogra> so it might be the still active cookie or something that lets me do it
<flint> ogra,  the bad channel will not let me on... #launchpad :You need to be identified to join that channel
<Burgwork> flint, you need to register yourself
<ogra> yeah, you should do that ...
<flint> Burgwork, i cannot register under my name flint
<flint> ogra, btw I looked over the stuff sivan is doing and shot you a letter.  let me know if you find it entertaining...
<ogra> heh, will do :)
<ogra> btw, looks like the delay was approved by TB and CC today ...
<ogra> so we'll have a beta release on apr 20th and the final on july 1st
<flint> ogra, Oliver, what we both know about projects is that a slip is forever... and that's the good news.
<ogra> in the end it might be good ... i'm still worried about the press we'll get ...
<Burgwork> I wouldn't worry about it
<ogra> there were people relying on the schedule
<Burgwork> Ubuntu has taken some knocks recently, but I think we still have a strong prodcut
<ogra> people doing derivatives etc
<Burgwork> yes
<ogra> they wont be happy about that ...
<ogra> and we break with a tradition... all releases were perfectly on schedule until now ...
<Burgwork> and six weeks is a long time
<ogra> yep
<HedgeMage> flint: the nickname "flint" is expired... I can drop it so you can register it if you like.
<flint> ogra, what william randolph hearst said was "say what you want about me but spell my name right"  this is good.  The stuff about the log files is good because it was fixed in 2 hours.
<flint> HedgeMage, I would like that very much.  How do I do this?
<ogra>  /msg nickserv help
<flint> ogra, yea, i am all over that... :^)
<HedgeMage> flint: I'll drop it for you, then follow the instructions at http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup to register and set it up :)
<HedgeMage> (the link I pasted also shows you how to do an email, alt nick, linking, all the stuff you need to be able to GCF channels, get cloaks, get a pw reset, and so on)
<flint> HedgeMage, thank you very much, I promise to use this nickname well and gain it great infamy... :^)
<HedgeMage> (The drop will take a few minutes, apparently we're backed up right now)
<HedgeMage> flint: hehe :)
<HedgeMage> wb
<flint> HedgeMage, sorry I crashed.  could you set the current password for flint to banana for me?
<HedgeMage> flint: once it goes through, it will be deleted entirely and you will need to register from scratch
* HedgeMage taps her foot at the nick drop queue
<flint> we refer to this marvelously insecure activity as "banana-ing" the password... 
* HedgeMage bites her tongue before making a very un-educational remark
<ogra> lol
<flint> HedgeMage, this is problematic since anyone else could grab it... however, I am compounding the double entendre here ...
<flint> lol
<HedgeMage> no, they can't.  You can only register a name if you are currently using it... you're using it, so you're safe.
<flint> HedgeMage, http://flickr.com/photos/37996590527@N01/81207224/ excellent!
<flint> at this point it keeps saying the password is incorrect.  I will stay with this until it allows me to reset the password... eh?
<HedgeMage> just be patient, I'll tell you when it's dropped. :P
<HedgeMage> There, now it's dropped
<HedgeMage> type "/msg nickserv register <password>" to register it
<HedgeMage> then follow the rest of the instructions at the link I sent you so that you are eligible for cloaks, pw resets, and so on.
<HedgeMage> got all that, flint ?
<HedgeMage> I'm out of here for a bit, /msg me if you need anything
<flint> HedgeMage, thanks I think I have it pretty well screwed up...
<HedgeMage> flint: it looks like you are registered and IDed, what is the problem?  (/msg me if you prefer)
<HedgeMage> flint: let me know if you need help
#edubuntu 2006-03-21
<Empedocles> hi one speak spanish?
<Empedocles> i install ubuntu 5.10 but the installation its bad , in the moment the copy of system basic and paquetes aditional of hard disk
<Empedocles> instalation for amd 64
<Empedocles> help me pleasse
<Empedocles> hellos?
<Empedocles> hola che
<Empedocles> arkan0x hola
<arkan0x> Empedocles, hola !
<Empedocles> che tengo problemas en la instalacion me das una mano?
<arkan0x> que problema tienes ?
<arkan0x> Empedocles, #edubuntu-es 
<Empedocles> mira me baje la version 5.10
<arkan0x> Empedocles, #edubuntu-es  entra a ese canal , ahi te ayudamos en espanol
<iGotNoTime> night all :)
<iGotNoTime> ok night all (for real this time) :)
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: morning. have you seen this? http://kavlon.org/index.php/cb
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<Burgundavia> hmm http://lwn.net/Articles/175574/
<Burgundavia> janeW: not feeling very captial J-ish today?
<JaneW> :P
<highvolt1ge> yay! someone's here!
<Burgundavia> highvolt1ge: I am nearly almost always here
<Burgundavia> http://lwn.net/Articles/175574/
<Burgundavia> and http://www.kavlon.org/index.php/cb
<highvolt1ge> Burgundavia: i saw that when you posted earlier, joined the group :)
<Burgundavia> looks like Userful is going to get a grant from the Canadian gov't to build an education solution
<highvolt1ge> wow! great!
<Burgundavia> should be an interesting time
<Burgundavia> I am pushing the "use as much open source as possible" approarch
<Burgundavia> I have tried that colouring book. Not bad but probably not usable on a thin client, due to overhead
<highvolt1ge> it's also very, very pre-release.
<highvolt1ge> probably not of high enough quality for mass deployment yet
<highvolt1ge> 'use as much oss as possible' is a good approach.
<highvolt1ge> i get scared when people say 'completely OSS', which you see often in underexperienced management.
<highvolt1ge> (or just plain ignorant)
<Burgundavia> userful is going to need some education in that area
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> JaneW: what was the verdict on the mailing list? anything else happen in the meeting of note?
<JaneW> busy writing an e-mail now...
<JaneW> sent
* highvoltage reads Jane's e-mail to ubuntu-devel-announce and was a bit confused about the meeting time :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: WHY? :(
* JaneW is trying to *avoid* confusion
<highvoltage> JaneW: i thought it went out to edubuntu-devel :)
<JaneW> oic :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: does it makes sense in context then?
<highvoltage> JaneW: yes :)
<JaneW> \o/
<JaneW> now read mailing list one
* JaneW 's back is aching
<highvoltage> hasn't arived yet
<JaneW> well burning
<highvoltage> JaneW: did you do something crazy, like running or climbing again?
<JaneW> running, kata boxing and yoga
<JaneW> followed by 2 days of just sitting for 9-10 hours in a row ;)
<Burgundavia> what about edubuntu-devel and edubuntu-educators
<JaneW> and not doing much else
<JaneW> Burgundavia: kinda makes sense, but then does ppl scared of the word 'devel' won't be covered
<JaneW> those looking for support
<Burgundavia> ya, but three is pretty bad
<JaneW> I have a poor guy now who posted a support question which never got answered and posted again and is not terrified he has been banned from the list
<JaneW> I think some devel lists are VERY STRICT
<JaneW> also ogra will be interested in e-devel and e-users but NOT e-educators....
<Burgundavia> ubuntu-devel is getting stricter
<JaneW> sure 3 times as much spam for me to filter - that's the last thing I want :P
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: and people like me are scared of the word 'educators'
<highvoltage> two lists is all we need, nothing more, imho
<highvoltage> JaneW: most devel lists are very strict, not as leniant as the ubuntu lists
<Burgundavia> actually, fedora-devel is more lenient that ubuntu and it hurts fedora
<highvoltage> well, fedora is just a general mess-up
<highvoltage> (but i didn't say that)
<Burgundavia> hmm, indeed
<Burgundavia> the support guys at work rip their hair out sometimes
<Burgundavia> anyway, I have to sleep
<Burgundavia> I need to move to Europe
<highvoltage> fedora is awful to support. things were much better here since we moved to ubuntu.
<highvoltage> ok, sleep tight, Burgundavia 
<JaneW> highvoltage: so what about susan?
<JaneW> highvoltage: or is that what the drupal forum will be for?
* highvoltage racks brains wondering who susan is
<JaneW> read mailing list :P
<highvoltage> pips1 wants a forum, but i don't think it's a good idea.
<JaneW> From: 	Susan Addington <saddingt@csusb.edu>
<JaneW> To: 	Edubuntu Edubuntu <edubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
<JaneW> Subject: 	Re: Mailing list name
<JaneW> Date: 	Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:53:07 -0800  (21:53 SAST)
<highvoltage> JaneW: i don't know, i think that's something that requires more thought
<highvoltage> JaneW: it will be to our benefit to provide a platform for curriculum integration into edubuntu, but i would like to avoid forums if at all possible, they attract all kinds of trouble
<highvoltage> JaneW: although, many 'educators' prefer forums to mailing lists, but i'm sure we can find some kind of compromise
<highvoltage> JaneW: drupal has a nice 'books' plugin, which allow people to work collaboratively on... stuff.
<highvoltage> JaneW: similar to a wiki, so perhaps that might be a good option as well
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> pipsl seemed keen on the forums
<JaneW> can you discuss with him and decise which is best?
<JaneW> decide even
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<JaneW> highvoltage: did you see my responses?
<highvoltage> JaneW: yep, just responded :)
<highvoltage> JaneW: i agree with what you say.
<highvoltage> 3 lists is too much, at this stage.
<JaneW> ok
<highvoltage> *are
<highvoltage> JaneW: i agree with hedblom too, following the conventions are nice
* highvoltage is fine with -users and -devel too
<highvoltage> it can serve the same purpose
<sivang> hody all
* sivang searches for flint
<sivang> flint: ping
<JaneW> who is co-ordinating the laptop testing team now?
<JaneW> sivang: he is never here except at meeitng time
<JaneW> sivang: try e-mail
<JaneW> sivang: also it;s still a bit early
<JaneW> sivang: after 13:00 UTC you'll have more chance of finding him up
<sivang> JaneW: k, sure. You seen our email corrospondance regarding the backup solution? is what he talks about supposed to be an Edubuntu solution as well?
<JaneW> sivang: I read it and then filed it, I am not going to get into an argument about it ;) It's for you and Matt and maybe Oli to decide
<sivang> JaneW: I'm happy with his suggestions and input, and I think it's a wothwhile goal to eventually provide a full blown system to restore from scratch without having to reinstall and then reapply backup, however I need to first let to get out with the first release of my solution :)
* sivang writes en email
<JaneW> ogra: what's the URL for the cebit avi again?
<ogra> http://80.237.148.5/cebit.avi
<JaneW> ty
<highvoltage> what's that?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<spacey> ogra: ping :)
<spacey> esddsp is a replacement for esd? or just a wrapper?
<ogra> spacey, pong
<spacey> there seems to be no documentation for esd at all :P
<ogra> its a wrapper that sets ESPAEKER and LD_PRELOAD
<spacey> http://www.tux.org/~ricdude/dbdocs/book1.html
<ogra> LD_PRELOAD is the problem, it makes firefox crash ...
<spacey> so just call the desired application with esddsp?
<spacey> so its userwide
<ogra> i think you can only use it session-wide, yes
<spacey> ah
<spacey> thats too bad
<ogra> there is a firefox bug anywhere in malone ... it breaks flash sound ...
<spacey> yeah i know about that one
<spacey> they don't have sound now anyway
<spacey> epiphany same problem?
<ogra> flash is flash, no matter iun which browser 
<ogra> :)
<spacey> yeah ok
<spacey> :)
<spacey> but at least epiphany won't crash :)
<spacey> and they don't have sound now anyway
<ogra> i didnt try ...
<spacey> if firefox
<spacey> i think
<spacey> in
<spacey> so i'll try it when the kids go home :P
<spacey> oh wait
<spacey> i'll just try it with my own user :P
<spacey> ogra: but you know how esddsp is suppose to run?
<ogra> yes, as i said, its sets these two variables :) 
<ogra>  less /usr/bin/esddsp
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> its a sheppscript
<ogra> *shell
<spacey> what i understood of it catched OSS output to esd
<spacey> but i guess it can do that because of those two vars then :P
<ogra> hmm, the last line in that script looks like it would be possible to run it for single programs 
<spacey> if its a wrapper it would make sense that way
<spacey> hmhm /me gonna find a thin client to test
<spacey> i was told the default esd needed some patches though, because it didn't capture open64 stuff. Is that something only needed on 64bit? or no idea?
<ogra> the latter 
<spacey> anyway i patched it so i can try later. 
<highvolt1ge> ogra: i'm tempted to install Dapper flight 5 as a production system in two schools, do you think it's ready
<ogra> nope, but if you can handle the glitches ...
<highvolt1ge> hehe, i should've expected that :)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> ogra: i think i'll hold on for flight 6, that should be relatively soonish (next three weeks or so), right?
<ogra> likely
<simon_> ltsp problem get to Gnome login manager but keyboard dosen't work. The mouse is fine
<paolob> Hi guys! In my edub breezy I can't switch to the console when I have the gdm login screen. It happens only on one of my 5 ubuntu pc. What could be the reason?
<ogra> paolob, nvidia driver ? 
<paolob> ogra, I don't think so. Where do I check it?
<ogra> grep nvidia /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<paolob> ogra, no, it's a "VGA compatible controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS]  65x/M650/740 PCI/AGP VGA Display Adapter"
<paolob> the strange thing is that when I login in gdm the Alt-ctl-fx works.
<paolob> it doesn't depend on the fact that there are services which aren't run.
<flint> sivang, pong
<sivang> flint: seem my email, in a meeting now
<flint> sivang working on spam filter. last email I got named the project UPBackup.  I responded.  Take your time... :^)
<ogra> JaneW, no wlan with ltsp ...
<JaneW> ogra: dang, I feared that may be the case...
<ogra> there is nothing like PXE or etherboot for wlan ...
<ogra> i was planning something with jbailey but that would only create an CD iso with wireless support you could boot from ...
<Yagisan> ogra: IIRC there was an etherboot for wlan, but I'd need to google for it
<ogra> nothing we coulsd ship in any way
<ogra> and kernel 2.4 based
<Yagisan> oh well. can't be helped
<edan> i wanted to know if edubuntu supports hebrew can anyone help???
<ogra> edan, sivang could tell, he's busy with .il support in ubuntu 
<edan> ogra, thnx
<sivang> edan: edubntu support hebrew out of the box, just as ubuntu does :)
<sivang> edan: I'm myself a hebrew user, so I can witness the support is very good minus some cosmetic changes that might get fixed for the upcoming release.
<edan> sivang, thnx alot
<sivang> edan: np, prob, check out www.ubuntu.org.il for more details.
<sivang> ogra: now it's come to me that when I have a free minute I Need to add an edubuntu section there :-)
<ogra> note that we can only include a limited amount of lang-packs on the CD ...
<ogra> -il isnt among them, you should note on the wiki that you need a online connection during install to have it right away ...
<ogra> sadly one -kde langpack has the size of 3 -gnome langpacks, they eat all the space
<sivang> okay, thakns for the tip. I will
<sivang> ogra: maybe we could do several CDs according to region ?
<sivang> middle east , arabic, hebrew , wahtever, EU, english, germen etc..
<ogra> sivang, not now that wer are in shipit 
<ogra> *we
<sivang> yes, I understand.
<fabbione> hey flint 
<fabbione> i saw your ping before..
<fabbione> sorry i wasn't around
<Burgwork> ogra, for edubuntu, can we special case the kdeedu stuff and get it split into its own langpack?
<ogra> i dont think our current langpack structure is able to do such fine grained tasks
<Burgwork> well, lets think about this for dapper+1 then
<ogra> yep
<ogra> or +2
<ogra> my featurelist for +1 is already to full for a 4 month release
<Burgwork> what are the goals for +1?
<ogra> mainly local device support, new app selection and probably dropping of kdeedu
<ogra> getting ltsp manager in and improving the student control panel
<ogra> improving sound to not suck if possible
<ogra> and indeed the standard ltsp enhancements i work on with the debian guys ...
<ogra> on my whishlist are menu profiles and (at least the beginnigs of) a drag and drop menu app that enables you to easily create profiles 
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<Burgwork> ogra, have you looked at sabayon?
<ogra> Burgwork, yes, i want something different 
<Burgwork> you want something simpler?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> way simpler 
<ogra> like an empty frame you can drop panel entrys into ...
<Burgwork> can you send the list a braindump of what you want and I can start brainstomring a UI
<ogra> which then creates a single toplevel menu and hides the system menu
<ogra> so users in a group that has assigned a menu profile will only see applications and places ...
<ogra> since i suspect the menus will be very small, i thing the applications menu might not even have subcategories (all arguable indeed, i want to make a BOF or two about it at the next conf)...
<iGotNoTime> I have a question... Is a GTK front end GUI the same as a Gnome frontend?
<iGotNoTime> what is GTK more or less :)
<Burgwork> GTK is a graphical toolkit that GNOME and XFCE use as their base
<iGotNoTime> ok thank you :)
<highvoltage> iGotNoTime: hiThereiGotNoTime
<iGotNoTime> highvoltage, hello there :)
<iGotNoTime> does anyone here run Asterisk?
<Burgwork> iGotNoTime, we do at work
* highvoltage does too, at work
<iGotNoTime> Burgwork, well maybe you can help :P  I have it, it is running now
<iGotNoTime> Burgwork, but how do I get the web GUI on?
<iGotNoTime> I tried localhost but it says denied
<Burgwork> no idea
<iGotNoTime> ok :)
<iGotNoTime> I even used Synaptic to install the GTK frontend for it, but now can't find where it was installed to to run it LOL
<highvoltage> *sigh*
<highvoltage> i'm bored, but i can't get myself to work
<iGotNoTime> :D
<Burgwork> ogra, is it worth the hit to remove kdeedu?
<ogra> i didnt count exactly, but my geass would be we'd have ~80-100Mb extra
<ogra> *guess
<Burgwork> what about the loss of functionality?
<ogra> kalzium is something i'd cry about ...
<ogra> kig is easily replaced with drgeo ...
<ogra> dunno about kturtle replacements, but i guess i'd find one
<highvoltage> ktuberling would be a big loss, as simple a program as it is
<ogra> there are vocabular training programs written in gtk, that should also be no problem
<Burgwork> there is a gtk periodic elements
<ogra> not comparable to kalzium
<Burgwork> no
<Burgwork> and mostly dead
<ogra> kalzium wins prizes all the time ... its a widely noticed app
<ogra> i think i saw a ktuberling clone in gtk ... cant remember the name ...
<Burgwork> there is a art for a ktuberling clone out there
<Burgwork> just no app
<Burgwork> maybe we can get Jeff Elkner to get his students to do one?
<highvoltage> i was initially very against the removal of the kde edutainment suite, but since it's so easy to apt-get install afterwards, i suppose it's not really a big deal at all.
<ogra> Burgwork++
<ogra> highvoltage, right and it gives us a ton of other apps or more languages ...
<ogra> maintaining the CD currently really sucks
<ogra> every flight i need to find something else to remove
<Burgwork> ouch'=
<highvoltage> ogra: i was wondering earlier about schooltool, it still needs to be added, right? and there's only a few KB left on the CD?
<ogra> schooltool is on flight 5 :)
<iGotNoTime> I am trying to add a printer, but don't know how
<iGotNoTime> I selected Canon, but my model is not listed
<iGotNoTime> the option to use driver is
<iGotNoTime> but canon.com does not have a linux driver
<iGotNoTime> any suggestion?
<iGotNoTime> can I use an XP driver or no?
<HedgeMage> iGotNoTime: what model is your printer?
<iGotNoTime> HedgeMag1, i470D
<enyc> iGotNoTime: what make/model canon?
<HedgeMage> iGotNoTime: it isn't listed on linuxprinting.org, so chances are that it's not supported under Linux
<enyc> right
<iGotNoTime> yes canon i470D
<HedgeMage> iGotNoTime: try googling a bit and see if you come up with anything.
<iGotNoTime> thank you :)
* HedgeMage hugs her spiffy new HP printer.
<enyc> iGotNoTime: linuxprinting.org can be very useful/helpful althuogh of course it may not exactly reflect the versions of ghostscript/gimp-print/foomatic/upsys etc. in your version of (ed)(k)ubuntu
<iGotNoTime> ok
<enyc> hrrm not even listed on linuxprinting.org that I can see
<enyc> is this a high end printer ?  maybe it does PCL or postscript?
<enyc> else a cheapo inkjet type thing?
<enyc> http://www.linuxprinting.org/printer_list.cgi?make=Canon
<enyc> does the printer have another model/make or writing on the back etc. ??
<HedgeMage> iGotNoTime: are you still about?
<HedgeMage> iGotNoTime: I found a brief reference to the Canon i470d on an archive of the fedora discussion list that suggests you can get *partial* functionality by using the driver for the Canon BJC800
<HedgeMage> iGotNoTime: I'm not sure how "partial" it is, but it may be better than nothing
<iGotNoTime> HedgeMage, Thank you :D
<iGotNoTime> I was/am AFK because kids are home from school, but thank you :)
<HedgeMage> iGotNoTime: no problem, i have a kid, too, I know how it goes
<darth865656> hi there ;-)
<darth865656> got a question concerning the dapper-edubuntu
<darth865656> after installing and configuring my dhcp, clients boot etc but can't login at/to the server in the gui.. 
<darth865656> has anybody an idea why? ;)
<mhz> hi you all!
<HedgeMage> hello
<mhz> HedgeMage: hi
#edubuntu 2006-03-22
* mhz listens to Therion.Lemuria/Therion_Typhon
<iGotNoTime> is there any Xen work being done by the (ed)(k)ubuntu teams?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> hi ogra 
<highvoltage> ogra: what do you think about stories like this: http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/06/03/16/1954251.shtml
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: ugh
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: my sentiments exactly :)
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: they had a big thing in the tectonic magazine about how 'cool' automatix is :/
<Burgundavia> silc wrote a similar script
<Burgundavia> there is a need
<Burgundavia> in fact, the silc script basically did the same thing as automatix
<JaneW> highvoltage: ping
<highvoltage> JaneW: pongo
<JaneW> highvoltage: I am here today btw... in case you have nice shiny stuff to show me :) (or new music for my MP3 player - or what have you... )
<JaneW> pongo is an ex collegue of mine :) (named after a gorilla in a joke)
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> JaneW: will you still be here at 13:00? i have a a meeting that's more or less the whole morning
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes till after 16:00 
<sivang> howdy folks
<highvoltage> howdy!
<highvoltage> strange. i've bought my computer from home to work today, and the exact noises that my computer make, makes me feel more at home
<JaneW> highvoltage: GEEK
<highvoltage> JaneW: :)
<JaneW> thanks highvoltage :)
<ogra> what do you guys think of dropping firefox in favor of epiphany ? 
<ogra> it could probably gain us a lot of space
<highvoltage> JaneW: np
<highvoltage> ogra: i actually considered it yesterday :)
<JaneW> ogra: er can we do that?
<ogra> i'll try to get that running ...
<JaneW> and should we?
<highvoltage> ogra: i personally think it would be a good idea, although firefox has a huge following
<JaneW> it goes against ubuntu default
<highvoltage> ogra: it does support flash, JRE, etc, right?
<ogra> JaneW, there is no difference in functionallity
<ogra> yep
<highvoltage> how much space does it save?
* JaneW would have to try epiphany to decide... I like FF tho
* ogra doesnt care about ubuntu default if he can probably get 20M free space :)
<ogra> the space we'd save is not through dropping firefox, but through dropping the ff translations
<highvoltage> ogra: then drop evolution too, while you're at it :)
<ogra> in favor of what ? 
<ogra> i see no valid replacement ...
<highvoltage> is thunderbird not smaller than evolution?
<JaneW> highvoltage: NO
<ogra> nope
<highvoltage> although that goes against ubuntu again :/
<JaneW> you'd lose me as a user
<ogra> and waaay bigger on the CD
<highvoltage> ok :)
<ogra> the mozilla products all have extra language packages
<highvoltage> most schools i've seen doesn't use an e-mail client
<ogra> these eat a lot of space
<highvoltage> they just use web interfaces
<ogra> the epiphany translations for example are contained in the gnome language packs anyway
<ogra> i'll change the seeds and do some tests the next days to figure what we'd really gain through a switch ...
<ogra> if its significant, i'd go for dropping ff
<highvoltage> ogra: i was just talking to jane, could we also replace that folder icon on the edutainment menu to something else?
<ogra> sure, i'll have to make some icon theme related stuff anyway to get the logo into the menu
<ogra> got an icon for me that fits there ?= 
<JaneW> ogra: yay thanks
<JaneW> ogra: a school/education related thing would be nice
<highvoltage> ogra: more or less, JaneW made some suggestions, i'll get you one before the end of the weekend
* JaneW will look
<ogra> i fear we wont be able to change the "about ubuntu" text in the menu
<ogra> its not configurable ...
<highvoltage> ogra: we have that chalkboardy pic we can scale down, and jane also suggested an apple
<ogra> and probably to late for a patch 
<ogra> an apple ? 
<ogra> only if they dont sue us then ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: it looks 'educationally'
<highvoltage> ogra: lol
<highvoltage> ogra: well, there *will* be a PPC version ;)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> even one for intel macs by the looks of it
<highvoltage> ogra: the default firefox/epiphany page, I think it would be nice if it matched the Edubuntu website with regards to theming
<ogra> yep
<highvoltage> ogra: would we be able to do that? it might cost +/- 300KB
<ogra> but thats stuff we can still change after apr 20th ... 
<ogra> there is no hurry for artwork stuff now that the schedule is longe
<highvoltage> nice, so is it definate that the release is postponed? i missed a bit.
<ogra> r
<ogra> yep
<ogra> was decided on wednesday
<JaneW> highvoltage: this too lame? http://webclipart.about.com/od/special/l/blgrad1.htm
<ogra> license ? 
<highvoltage> JaneW: the license won't work for us: http://webclipart.about.com/library/weekly/blterms.htm
<JaneW> blah! :/
<ogra> and we had the discussion about the hat already i think ...
<ogra> doing something with the chalkboard would be fine ...
* JaneW likes the chalkboard idea
<JaneW> ogra: what happened to the idea of an edubuntu DVD?
<ogra> we have one ... since breezy
<highvoltage> this is a kde icon, i think gpl licensed: http://www.jonathancarter.co.za/files/edu.png
* highvoltage thinks we could write an irc-bot extention to ogra, that answers whether ltsp has usb device support yet, how to enable sound, etc :)
<ogra> lol
<ogra> i was thinking about starting to use tomboy and keep a phrase collection for copy paste ;)
<highvoltage> :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: i like that icon!
<highvoltage> JaneW: kewl
<JaneW> ogra: sorry...
<JaneW> highvoltage: the ogra-bot is a good idea +++
<highvoltage> JaneW: when i get my bandwidth at home back, i'll add the bot to the channel and call it edubuntugirl
<highvoltage> :)
<JaneW> heh
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<guim> hi all
<guim> just a question, to anyone who can answer
<guim> is there a way top get edubuntu CD's (just like ubuntu) to distribute?
<ogra> its planned for dapper to have a limited amount on shipit.ubuntu.com 
<ogra> but not 100% agreed yet
<guim> in the context of our project : Claroline we organise an event (http://accu.claroline.net) I thought about giving some to the people there 
<guim> oh ok ogra
<ogra> we dont have it for breezy, sorry ...
<guim> our event is on 22 and 23 of may
<guim> so this is possible with dapper for us
<guim> and even quiet nice, as we would diffuse a recent version
<ogra> dapper will release on june 1st ...
<guim> dapper EDUbuntu ?
<ogra> dapper 
<guim> ok, bad luck for us then
<ogra> all dapper variants ...
<guim> i was misconfusing date of release of ubuntu with edubunth
<guim> all?
<ogra> yes
<guim> ok the date was changed recently
<ogra> yep
<guim> ok
<ogra> agreed on on wednesday 
<guim> bad luck for us: we could have given this CD to about 100 persons (we hope!) from educationnal contexts
<ogra> :(
<guim> I'll ask Mark Shuttleworth to change the date for us, so that we could get the cd's on time :)
<guim> sur he could do that
<JaneW> guim: good luck wuth that!
<guim> ;-)
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> ogra: s/shipit.ubuntu.com/shipit.edubuntu.org :)
<highvoltage> (from what i've heard)
<ogra> really o_O 
<ogra> WOW
<highvoltage> bye edubuntero's. have a good weekend!
<guim> oh...
<guim> I was about to ask him , what did he mean with shipit.edubuntu.org? is that really planned?
<ogra> seems like 
<guim> nice
<ogra> :)
<iGotNoTime> Hello friends :)
<seanh> Hello! Quick question, I'm running Ubuntu, if I install the package edubuntu-desktop, can I then choose between Ubuntu and Edubuntu at login?
<ogra> nope
<seanh> d'oh!
<ogra> edubuntu-desktop makes a edubuntu desktop of your ubuntu-desktop ...
<seanh> So I need to install it as a seperate OS, with its own partitions and everything?
<seanh> well, good job I asked U suppose
<ogra> you *can* install edubuntu-desktop, have a second account and undo the artwork changes for this user ...
<ogra> but there is no way to select between ubuntu/edubuntu on login ... edubuntu modifies the system defaults
<seanh> ok... so basically edubuntu will bring in a bunch of education-related packages, and will alter system defaults relating to artwork?
<ogra> for the -desktop part, yes 
<seanh> and the server and live packages?
<ogra> the live package only contains liveCD specific stuff 
<ogra> nothing you should install on a running system
<ogra> and the -server package depends on the server parts of edubuntu 
<seanh> What server stuff does edubuntu do? Is it a thin-client thing?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> ltsp and schooltool ...
<ogra> but note that the setup thats done by the edubuntu installer will have to be done manually if you want to use it on top of  astandard ubuntu
<seanh> Right.... so schooltool is a like a school-wide calendering tool that you can access from anywhere in the school network?
<ogra> yep
<seanh> I was just curious about installing it on my Ubuntu machine to take a look at it, not to actually setup a network with it
<ogra> then -desktop is all you want 
<seanh> Right... except it'll mess with my ubuntu settings, so it might just leave it until I can install Edunbuntu directly somewhere
<ogra> i meeses with the system defaults, not your user settings ;)
<seanh> Do you know how many people are working on Edubuntu, roughly? Has it been deployed anywhere? I saw photos of a test deployment or something on the website
<ogra> and uninstalling edubuntu-artwork and edubuntu-artwork-usplash will revert the settings changes
<seanh> Oh I see, so my current user will be untouched, that might be okay
<ogra> there is a bunch of people working on edubuntu, distro develpment is mainly done by me ...
<seanh> and it has sponsorship from Ubuntu?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> rather from canonical ...
<ogra> and there are several running setups of edubuntu in schools out there already ...
<ogra> (to answer the deployment question :) )
<seanh> How has the feedback from schools been?
<ogra> where we get it, its mostly positive ...
<seanh> Where in the world has it been deployed? I guess it's mostly places that want to use cheap hardware and free software?
<ogra> we have users in curacao, vanuatu, tuvalu, tobago, chile, the netherlands, brazil and germany that i know of ...
<ogra> oh, and norway, spain i forgot ...
<ogra> and indeed the uk
<seanh> the UK? Huh. That's where I am. Interesting.
<ogra> i'm not really aware of the french community, they have theor own forums and mailing lists
<seanh> The French community?
<ogra> yeah, there is a edubuntu-fr team ...
<ogra> they did a derivative of the ubuntu liveCD with edubuntu-desktop and some extra software on top
<seanh> ok
<seanh> I might be interested in developing on/for edubuntu. I'm in the first year of a PhD in there area of Advanced Interactive Learning Environments. So far I'm supposed to be doing something to do with interactive educational stories, specifically with immersive navigable environments, like a 3D game, network multiplayer roleplay
<ogra> cool
<seanh> I'm at the stage of putting together a proposal for my project... it'd be cool if I could make it something that would be useful to edubuntu
<ogra> absolutely :)
<seanh> Well.... I mean, I have written quite a lot of stuff, been at it for over 6 months, but I'm still totally thrashing around trying to find something that I really want to do. It'd be good I think to coordinate a bit with edubuntu people, so I can actually create my project to fill some need edubuntu has or to be useful for edubuntu
<ogra> start by subscribing to the edubuntu-devel mailing list ;)
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
<ogra> there are users, teachers and developers that can probably help you finding out whats required 
<seanh> Ok
<seanh> So far I have been looking at doing something with FLOSS 3D games technology and storytelling, i.e. immersive, interactive 3D stories, I don't see any 3D games being considered for edubuntu yet though, and I could be amenable to moving away from that
<ogra> the thing is that our main target is a ltsp classroom server, running GL apps ofer ltsp is painful ...
<ogra> *over
<ogra> thats why we dont have many GL things in the default install 
<seanh> right... I can imagine
<ogra> (nou need direct hardware access for the app to get all advantages out of GL)
<ogra> *you
<seanh> So with ltsp... do the client machines even have hard drives? Are they actually running edubuntu? Or are they simply passing input to the server, receiving output, and displaying it?
<ogra> the lattre 
<ogra> no harddrives ...
<iGotNoTime> ogra I have an semi-advanced question :)
<iGotNoTime> I want to see my TOP on my dedicated boxes
<iGotNoTime> but....
<ogra> they are booting from the net, start an x server and a loginmanager ... the loginmanager then logs you in to a desktop session on the server
<iGotNoTime> can I see those stats as a graphical chart in any way form my home?
<iGotNoTime> maybe a widget or something can do that?
<iGotNoTime> not trying to interrupt, any reply is fine at any time :)
<ogra> iGotNoTime, not yet ... but that would be a good add on feature for student-control-panel ...
<seanh> Right, so the login manager and X Server run on the clients, the session and any apps launched etc. run on the server
<ogra> yep
<iGotNoTime> ogra where do I post suggestion?
<ogra> the clients are just like display/keayboard/mouse anhancers of the server
<iGotNoTime> ubuntu forum?
<ogra> iGotNoTime, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/TeachersPet
<seanh> Is it one server per school? One server per classroom? Depends on the situation?
<ogra> the latter ...
<seanh> It seems if you had any OpenGL app, it'd need to run on the server, and you'd want a fast machine. But 3D games can be useful in education, so you'd want to support that
<ogra> no, you need to run it on the client
<ogra> the app will need direct access to the graphics hardware
<iGotNoTime> ok now more technical question now.... again no rush on reply :)
<iGotNoTime> I want to edit a user's group, and I open group and find the user it says :  joshua:x:1000:
<iGotNoTime> I know root is not suggested and I am not going to do just want the knowledge
<ogra> dont use an editor to work on such files
<ogra> use either the gui or commandline tools for it ...
<iGotNoTime> all I would have to do is change it to joshua:x:1000:root correct?
<iGotNoTime> yes using nano I mean
<iGotNoTime> I am trying to work on my dedicated box now ;)
<iGotNoTime> I want the user to have full access to all files via SFTP using a windows ftp client
<ogra> the superuser group is "admin" in ubuntu ...
<ogra> (the user with uid 1000 is in there by default)
<iGotNoTime> but I mean adding the group name at the end is sufficient?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> but dont use an editor
<iGotNoTime> so on the dedicated box joshua:x:1000:ftp would then allow that user to login with FTP?
<ogra> adduser joshus ftp 
<ogra> joshua
<iGotNoTime> wow :)
<iGotNoTime> CLI is getting easier everyday :)
<ogra> i think vsftp leats users in that can log in anyway, no need for an extra group
<iGotNoTime> WS_FTP gives the SFTP option, but they need to be in a proper usergroup for the chmod rights
<iGotNoTime> that is why I am interested in how to edit the user's groups
<iGotNoTime> ogra, thanks for the help again :)
<ogra> :)
<iGotNoTime> ogra, what country are you in?
<ogra> germany
<iGotNoTime> :)
<seanh> HOw come edubuntu-desktop depends on pyopengl?
<ogra> it depends on nearly every python dependency we have ...
<ogra> thats inherited from ubuntu
<ogra> the python stuff doesnt take much space
<seanh> ubuntu doesn't depend on python-opengl though. Maybe one of the edubuntu games uses it
<ogra> and python is our committed development language
<ogra> might be a dep of pygame or so
* ogra needs to walk the dog ...
<ogra> brb
<seanh> So... if I install edubuntu-desktop right now, my user will be untouched (except for a pile of apps added to the menu), but when I create a new user I will get an edubuntu user? Then I can create ubuntu users again if I remove edubuntu-art and -usplash?
<C-O-L-T-AWAY> Seveas: ?
<Seveas> C-O-L-T-AWAY, ?
<C-O-L-T-AWAY> Seveas: If I install dapper flight 5 I will be able to update to the final release?
<Seveas> sure
<Seveas> just regularly apt-get upgrade
<C-O-L-T-AWAY> Seveas: ok, and how stable is flight 5?
<Seveas> very
<C-O-L-T-AWAY> Seveas: for everyday use like internet, music, chat is it ok?
<Seveas> yeah, I use it for much more than that
<C-O-L-T-AWAY> Seveas: cool, and contains gnome 2.14 right?
<Seveas> yup
<C-O-L-T-AWAY> Seveas: really cool. Thanks for the info. I am downloading flight 5 that is why I am asking these things
<C-O-L-T-AWAY> Seveas: thanks again
<Seveas> np
<iGotNoTime> usergroups is to Group as users is to ?
<iGotNoTime> fill in the blank :)
<iGotNoTime> I want to see all the users not the groups
<iGotNoTime> ok another good question :) I logged the new user into FTP...
<iGotNoTime> he is in the proper groups
<iGotNoTime> but the folder he needs access to has a different user that owns
<iGotNoTime> same group though
<iGotNoTime> I want this one user to have access to all domains for FTP uploading
<iGotNoTime> the problem is all domains have different user names but in the same FTP group
<iGotNoTime> any suggestions?
<mikearthur> man
<mikearthur> I'm tempted to just break into the school I was doing experience in today and install edubuntu on all the machines
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<iGotNoTime> wanna be tempted more mikearthur ? look at the screenshot of the teachers computer http://www.redianet.com/img/pantallazo2.gif
<ogra> thats not edubuntu 
<ogra> its a suggestion for teachers pet ...
<iGotNoTime> OHHHHHHH!!!!
<iGotNoTime> MY BAD
<iGotNoTime> I am so sorry for misleading
<iGotNoTime> I thought that was a package for edubuntu :)
<highvoltage> i don't think anyone was mislead, that was clearly a windows screenshot ;)
<iGotNoTime> * ducks back embarassed
<highvoltage> :)
<iGotNoTime> hope nobody has technical question :(
<iGotNoTime> LOL
* HedgeMage tries to think of a difficult technical question for iGotNoTime :P
<iGotNoTime> Ohhh god no LOL
<iGotNoTime> sorry girl didn't see your name :) You are plenty capable :)
<iGotNoTime> I only noticed that ogra and highvoltage were both gone :)
<iGotNoTime> they are the one's who answer my noob questions :P
<HedgeMage> I'm just being a smart aleck :)
<iGotNoTime> :)
<iGotNoTime> me too :)
<HedgeMage> how is your day going?
<iGotNoTime> excellent :)
<iGotNoTime> learning soooo much
<iGotNoTime> I only have Linux now because it is easier to SSH into our dediacted server. SQL editing is easier than in XP too. But now I am starting to really enjoy the OS more than XP!
<iGotNoTime> so finding this out today, I just feel happy that ogra convinced me to install :)
<iGotNoTime> how long have you run this?
<HedgeMage> I've been using Linux since 1995, was introduced to debian (the distro ubuntu was based of of) in 2000, and tried ubuntu for the first time last year :)
<iGotNoTime> has excellent ratings on distrowatch :)
<iGotNoTime> looks like the hottest distro now
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> I've been really impressed with ubuntu.
<iGotNoTime> I have tried linux on and off since '97, around '03 started trying it for 6 months at time
<iGotNoTime> so I think 9 years is enough testing to finally convert LOL
<HedgeMage> I was (once upon a time) very active in the debian-edu project, but left due to social politics.  I'm lurking around edubuntu to get a feel for the community and possibly start contributing.
<HedgeMage> hehe :) ep
<HedgeMage> yep even
* HedgeMage beats off the typo gnomes with a big stick
<iGotNoTime> I only wish I would have stuck with it more, I know nothing of using CLI
<iGotNoTime> people get angry when I ask for a GUI
<iGotNoTime> not here, but Linux gurus in general
<iGotNoTime> here is very ver friendly community
<HedgeMage> GUIs can be nice, especially for new users.  OTOH, they make it harder to give accurate instructions... for example "type 'iwconfig ath0 essid MyNetwork'" is a lot quicker and easier via irc than "look for an icon on your taskbar that looks like two computer monitors..." followed by four more steps
<HedgeMage> ubuntu is *very* gui-oriented, so people are more friendly to that sort of thing here
<HedgeMage> don't ask for a gui in Slackware or Gentoo... they won't want to spend the extra time when they could help four people with CLI in the same time
<iGotNoTime> yes, I am slowly learning that CLI can be much faster
<iGotNoTime> it's just a memory thing :(
<HedgeMage> cheat sheets are your friend :)
<HedgeMage> My first Linux book, from back in 1995, had a great cheat-sheet in it that I *still* photocopy for people on occassion.
<iGotNoTime> That is a great idea!
<iGotNoTime> I never would have thought of the same tools I used @ Uni!
<HedgeMage> :)
<iGotNoTime> I am googling some now :)
<iGotNoTime> thank you
<HedgeMage> You are most welcome!
<HedgeMage> I used mine constantly for the first 6 or 8 months, then it began to slowly taper off
<HedgeMage> (I started with with no GUI at all, so I *had* to learn!)
<iGotNoTime> hehe
#edubuntu 2006-03-23
<iGotNoTime> I wish we had sound in IRC so I could scream BOOOO! and scare the hell out of all of you :P
<iGotNoTime> running to the market be back in a bit :)
<HedgeMage> lol
<HedgeMage> no, thanks.  I don't need to hear all the other users' music, noises, etc.
<Burgundavia> right, and my boss at work would wonder what I was doing on my machine
<Burgundavia> I like stealth-ircing thanks
<HedgeMage> lol
<iGotNoTime> BOOO!
<iGotNoTime> Ha got ya again! 
<iGotNoTime> LOL
<iGotNoTime> damn it just doesn't feel the same :(
<HedgeMage> lol
<flint> HedgeMage, Hi there my dear, still like the name and intend to keep using it.
<HedgeMage> flint: :) good
<flint> HedgeMage, anyway thank you very much.  where in the world are you? I am in Vermont, USA.
<flint> anyway, good night and good luck. sksk
<HedgeMage> WA, usa
<HedgeMage> oops, missed him
<iGotNoTime> Can I modify my settings in any way to make the Windows Key open the Applications menu?
<iGotNoTime> some habits are VERY hard to break
<Burgundavia> I don't think so
<iGotNoTime> ok :)
<iGotNoTime> thx :)
<iGotNoTime> whoa! nevermind :P
<iGotNoTime> it currently changes my languages!
<iGotNoTime> very cool
<iGotNoTime> much easier than multple keys!
<Burgundavia> greetings highvoltage
<Burgundavia> how is your saturday?
<highvoltage> hi Burgundavia 
<highvoltage> well, i just woke up, so we'll have to see :)
<highvoltage> going to install 2 new tuxlabs in 2 hours or so from now :)
<highvoltage> brining the amount of tuxlabs in this province to 120.
<Burgundavia> cool
<Burgundavia> userful via omni and novell is about to roll out 3k desktops in NorthWest province
<highvoltage> kewl :)
<highvoltage> .za at educational level is going towards linux faster and faster
<highvoltage> the educational content providers are working more and more towards making all their content web-based, or at least platform independent to some degree.
<highvoltage> because they are aware of all these mass Linux deployments and they don't want to loose market.
<highvoltage> this in turn, is helping the DoE to more seriously consider Linux for their roll-outs
<Burgundavia> cool
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<simon__> anyone at home
<Burgundavia> simon__: nope
<simon__> got an ltsp problem any takers
<Burgundavia> sorry, I know nothing about ltsp
<simon__> get to gnome desktop manger screen but keyboard works on and off with wrong symbols when it does work then suddenly it will work ok for a bit then fail again. i know its not keyboard as it works ok in main edubuntu
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<snif96ter> hallo
<highvoltage> hi
<snif96ter> ich soll in einer Schule ein Netzwerk einrichten ich mchte dafr Linux nehmen, weil ich selber schon lnger privat mit Ubuntu arbeite. Jetzt mchte ich wissen, was Edubuntu besser kann oder welche extra funktionen es gegenber anderen Ubuntu Derivaten hat.
<highvoltage> hallo snif96ter. fgt edubuntu irgendeinen pdagogischen Inhalt, wie kde-edu, gcompris, tux4kids, etc. sowie LTSP hinzu, das Ihnen erlaubt, Computer von einem Netz aufzuladen.  ich spreche nicht irgendwie deutsch, ich benutze google bersetze zum communicat zu Ihnen jetzt :)
<highvoltage> ogra ist mglicherweise deutsch, wenn Sie auf einer Spitze halten, die Sie einige Fragen konnten als er.
<snif96ter> ok highvoltage you can speak english to me
<highvoltage> shew! that's way less work :)
<snif96ter> :)
<highvoltage> are you planning to use thin clients, or full desktop systems?
<snif96ter> what are thin clients?
<highvoltage> that's when you have workstations without any local storage, they boot and work entirely off the network, from a central server.
<highvoltage> the applications even run from the server, they are just displayed locally.
<highvoltage> edubuntu has this built in by default. your workstations only need to be PII's. You need a powerful server, though.
<snif96ter> i plan it with full desktop systems
<highvoltage> in that case, edubuntu will only give you software such as what i've mentioned before. edubuntu also includes schooltool.
<snif96ter> i've heard of schooltool before but how can i use it?
<highvoltage> unfortunately i haven't had a chance to use it too much either
<highvoltage> but if you have some time, you could look it up at http://www.schooltool.org
<snif96ter> the server in this school is already Suse Linux 9.3 Server do i need a edubuntu server? or can i use the suse server?
<jelkner> hi all, i have a quick question
<jelkner> we have an edubuntu lab setup in a community that is primarily spanish speaking
<jelkner> i did the install in english
<jelkner> when i connect directly to the server, i can choose the language
<jelkner> on the clients, i can't
<jelkner> is there an easy way to change the default language to spanish on the clients?
<highvoltage> jelkner: i think there is a way, but you have to change it for *all* the clients then
<highvoltage> jelkner: i don't think you can choose individual or per-user languages atm
<jelkner> highvoltage, that's ok
<jelkner> i know later we will be able to choose on an individual basis (perhaps dapper + 1)?
<jelkner> but for now i want spanish
<jelkner> how can i do that?
<highvoltage> i'm not sure
<highvoltage> i asked ogra about it a few days back, and he said you could change it in the ltsp chroot
<highvoltage> i'm not sure how though
<jelkner> ok, i'll check with him later
<jelkner> thanks
<jelkner> exit
<flint> ogra, ollie got a stoopid question...
<spacey> oh oh flint
<spacey> please feel free to share with the rest of us as well
<flint> spacey, ok babies, elkner calls me up in a dither... he needs to switch classrooms full of folks between languages - hopefully on the fly.
<spacey> he already asked here 3 hours ago
<flint> the dealieo here is there are several language variables in a user environment.  these are:
<spacey> spanish
<flint> spacey, spanish is the real issue here in the colonies absolutely.
<flint> flint@zeta:~$ set | grep -i lang
<flint> GDM_LANG=en_US.UTF-8
<flint> LANG=en_US.UTF-8
<flint> LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8
<flint> now when you switch to spanish....
<spacey> IIRC you can change the default in /etc/environment
<flint> flint@zeta:~$ set | grep -i lang
<flint> GDM_LANG=es_ES.UTF-8
<flint> LANG=es_ES.UTF-8
<flint> LANGUAGE=es_ES.UTF-8
<flint> on a per user basis? in ltsp?
<spacey> thats systemwide
<spacey> on per user i'm not sure, normally you select that in GDM
<spacey> not sure where its stored normally per user
<flint> what about a for a given user, say you want half the class in spanish and half in english?
<flint> and this would be in the LTSP /opt/etc/ or something eh?
<spacey> then you need configure it for half of the users i guess
<spacey> well
<flint> where in GDM ( or as I like to refer to it, goddamn :^) would you change the language variable?
<spacey> if you set it in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc
<spacey> then its only for the thinclient self
<spacey> afaik
<spacey> so maybe LDM will be in that language then
<flint> I can probabaly live with just this environment variable change.  
<spacey> but the system itself you need to put it in /etc i guess
<flint> I will play with this in the flint linux candy lab.... thanks!
<flint> where is that little scamp ogra?
<spacey> i hope he is enjoying the weekend
<flint> he has had pleanty of time to get a cigarette....
<spacey> working 7 days a week would be pretty bad for him
<flint> seriously thanks for the lead.  I will try to put something on  the wiki....
<flint> indeed... and I actually agree completely.  thanks agaoin.. sksk
<highvoltage> *yawn*
<iGotNoTime> Does anyone know if my default Edubuntu has a TFTP server built in?
<iGotNoTime> I need to have communication for file transfer to flash some firmware into one of my networked devices
<iGotNoTime> nevermind found it, Synaptic is the coolest thing in this distro!
<highvoltage> iGotNoTime: yes, it has one built it
<highvoltage> synaptic++
<iGotNoTime> is it running by default?
<highvoltage> it's required for LTSP
<iGotNoTime> I don't see it in processes
<highvoltage> if your ltsp is running, then tftp is running too
<iGotNoTime> how do i start the server?
<highvoltage> tftpd runs out of inetd
<highvoltage> check that it's enabled in /etc/inetd.conf
<highvoltage> and that inetd is started
<highvoltage> /etc/init.d/inetd start
<iGotNoTime> yes thank you
<iGotNoTime> that was wwhat i was looking for :)
<iGotNoTime> very slow in here today ;)
<iGotNoTime> I needed to get some movement :D
<highvoltage> sorry, i've been in and out :/
<iGotNoTime> hehe
<iGotNoTime> from my inedt.conf :
<iGotNoTime> tftp           dgram   udp     wait    root  /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
<iGotNoTime> that means it is ready to run correct?
<iGotNoTime> all I then need to do is start inetd via terminal?
<highvoltage> yes, although, inetd isn't really meant for a standard ftp server
<iGotNoTime> it is only for 5 minutes use :)
<iGotNoTime> I am stopping service after done
<highvoltage> tftp is different from ftp in that it only sends the file to the other side, without checking that it gets there
<iGotNoTime> I am using to flash some files into a SIP adapter :)
<highvoltage> many clients won't work with it
<iGotNoTime> the device has lights signaling when completed
<highvoltage> i don't know if that would work :/
<highvoltage> but i won't stop you from trying :)
<iGotNoTime> how do I find out what the server IP would be?
<iGotNoTime> just my local for edubuntu?
<highvoltage> yep
<iGotNoTime> k :)
<iGotNoTime> be back in a bit with the prognosis :)
<iGotNoTime> thx
<iGotNoTime> ohhh one more thing
<iGotNoTime> what is the default root directory for the service?
<iGotNoTime> where do I place this .bin file?
<highvoltage> /var/lib/tftpboot
<highvoltage> not sure if tftp even listens on a standard port :/
<iGotNoTime> hehe
<iGotNoTime> will find out :)
<iGotNoTime> :)
<iGotNoTime> the screen savers are gnome products correct?
<enyc> erm
<enyc> how doesw pprintign work with all the thin-clients on ltsp??
<enyc> do they have their won cupsys locally as-per the 'boot image' when boot-over-network?
<enyc> or...
<enyc> use remote ip:631 cupsys somehow?
<GR8WENT> do I have to create an lts.conf?
<GR8WENT> I don't see one in /opt/ltsp/etc
#edubuntu 2006-03-24
<GR8WENT> sorry /opt/ltsp/i386/etc
<iGotNoTime> How do I make a .bin file work?
<iGotNoTime> install?
<iGotNoTime> nevermind I think I found help :)
<iGotNoTime> Can anyone explain how to get Java to work?
<iGotNoTime> no rush I am out and about looking for it :)
<GR8WENT> start here: http://help.ubuntu.com/starterguide/C/ch03s02.html
<iGotNoTime> Yes I am there 
<iGotNoTime> GR8WENT, thank you
<GR8WENT> np
<iGotNoTime> with Edubuntu can someone from this room SSH into my computer and adjust a setting I can't get or as that not possible?
<iGotNoTime> just an example, not asking for help :)
<Cyorxamp> Hi folks, debian has a 'minimal cd for network install' (under 50mb cd) - does ubuntu have something similar for download?
<iGotNoTime> negative
<iGotNoTime> like a micro package such as DSL or something?
<iGotNoTime> not that I have seen but the website is not exactly in my head yet, maybe #ubuntu would know?
<iGotNoTime> I have been trying this for almost 30 minutes now. Can someone please tell me the way to change permissions in SSH? I have been trying this : sudo chmod -R 0777 /et
<iGotNoTime> oops  * /etc
<teamchachi> I've got a few question about LTSP and Edubuntu.  Anybody around?
* arkan0x is away: .....zzz...b
#edubuntu 2006-03-25
<ulinskie> hello!
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<Burgundavia> salut highvoltage 
<highvoltage> salut Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> have you seen live.gnome.org/EducationSuite
<Burgundavia> an idea I am kicking around
* highvoltage looks
<highvoltage> would be nice if they could complete the GTK table :)
<Burgundavia> it would be better to actually identify what teachers actually need for apps
<Burgundavia> and have a table of that
<Burgundavia> rather than just "copy what kde does
<Burgundavia> "
<highvoltage> yes, you're right
<Burgundavia> do you think you would be able to rustle something like that up?
<Burgundavia> I am short of actual teacher contacts
<HedgeMage> If anyone's interested, I have some suggestions teachers at my mom's school gave me a while back
<HedgeMage> I did a survey of the district and a couple of neighboring ones back when I was still on debian-edu
<HedgeMage> no one ever used it for anything :(
<Burgundavia> do you want to a create page on the edubuntu wiki called TeacherSuggestedPrograms or something similar
<HedgeMage> Sure.  I'll dig up my notes tonight or tomorrow.
* HedgeMage is a pack rat
<Burgundavia> geez, didn't even realize I had changed people I was talking to
<Burgundavia> xchat had you both coloured green and your names both start with h
<HedgeMage> LOL
<Burgundavia> HedgeMage, where do you live?
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: WA state, USA at the moment
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: military family, we move a lot.
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> I am in Victoria, BC
<HedgeMage> :)
<Burgundavia> you going to be able to make it LinuxFestNorthwest in Bellingham?
<HedgeMage> No :(  My husband will be on a field exercise at the time, and I don't have anyone to watch my 3yo son.
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> too bad. I will be talking about Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Edubuntu
<HedgeMage> If he were a little older so I could be sure of his behavior, I'd bring him along... but 3yo kids are hard to predict sometimes
* Yagisan waves hello
<Yagisan> ogra: you familiar with synaptic. I backported dappers to breezy and now it asks for "roots" password rather then my own. I have no idea why.
<ogra> the .desktop entry points to gksu instead of gksudo i'd guess
<Yagisan> ogra: your right it does.
* Yagisan wanted the new aptitude, and had to get the apt with it
<Yagisan> which then broke synaptic.
<jsgotangco> hey
<Yagisan> G'day jsgotangco
<QwizzzTest> Hello.
<flint> ogra, you awake? suzan letting you type?
<ogra> heh, yes, still horrible busy with the artwork package
<flint> I have a stoopid question about launchpad.  Please see https://wiki.edubuntu.org/gins  they refer to a launchpad page.  can I ignore this?
<flint> i used a prototype... eh.
<ogra> why dont you create it in launchpad if you want it to be a distrospec ...
<ogra> else just call it a howto and remove the spec stuff ;) 
<flint> ogra, i have lanuchpad anxiety.... (I am so ashamed!!! :^)
<ogra> ah, come on ... it doesnt bite ;)
<flint> ogra, olllie, I am just afraid to begin, the first step is the hardest they say...  and I am not quite certian,  I have a bzr repository set on one of my virtuals, should I just set the code in there?
<ogra> yep
<pips1> has anyone seen highvoltage lately?
<RasCaL> hello all this is iGotNoTime on my son's computer
<RasCaL> I just installed onto my laptop and it could not configure my wifi adapter, where do I set the channel?
<RasCaL> When I enable it just disables in seconds on it's own
<flint> ogra, just got my "new ibm break spring keyboard (with a trackpoint "g" spot... :^)  this is a good day!
<flint> missing middle button buit life is otherwise viable...
<flint> ogra, thanks I am gonna set the bzr repository as you suggest...
<flint> sksk
<ryanakca> how do you add users to schooltool
<bimberi> ryanakca: #schooltool ?
#edubuntu 2006-03-26
<mhz> hi you all!
<ryanakca> bimberi: ty
<GR8WENT> do I have to create an lts.conf?
<GR8WENT> I don't see one in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc
<mhz> GR8WENT: hi tehre
<GR8WENT> hi mhz
<mhz> GR8WENT: if you installed Edubuntu via "next, next, next" based on wiki:EdubuntuInstallNotes, then no need to modify any files under /opt
<GR8WENT> ok
<GR8WENT> thin clients will boot and show the login screen
<GR8WENT> but that's it
<GR8WENT> when I put in a user/pass it just kicks back to the login
<mhz> GR8WENT: ok
<mhz> GR8WENT: breezy or dapper?
<GR8WENT> 5.10
<mhz> breezy
<GR8WENT> yes
<mhz> then 2 questions
<mhz> a) Does the user exist on the server and he's not currently logged in?
<GR8WENT> yes and correct
<mhz> b) if the above is ok, then on the server, run $ ltsp-update-sshkeys
<mhz> and try to login
<GR8WENT> thank you
<GR8WENT> I will try that
<mhz> let us know
<GR8WENT> bbl
<mhz> ok
* arkan0x is away: .....zzz...b
<Burgwork> arkan0x, please turn off your public away message
* arkan0x is back (gone 00:04:16)
<arkan0x> Burgwork, why ?
<Burgwork> arkan0x, because it is annoying, to be honest
<arkan0x> mmm
<Burgwork> thanks
<Aklys> could some assist me please in getting wpa security working in edubuntu?
<bimberi> Aklys: ubotu (the #ubuntu channel bot) has this ...
<bimberi> wpa is, like, totally, enable the universe repository, then "sudo apt-get update", and then "sudo apt-get install wpasupplicant".  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WPAHowto for more details
* bimberi speculates that ubotu would be handy here
<Aklys> Since I can't do a apt-get cause I'm not connected to the network that's gonna be impossible to do
<bimberi> Aklys: you can download the .deb file(s) on another machine via http://packages.ubuntu.com and transfer them
<Aklys> it's ok I think I've found the drivers I'm after on the ubuntu wiki. I have to set it up via command line as it is a rt2500 chipset
<bimberi> Aklys: kk.  fwiw i just checked a reasonably vanilla breezy install i have and wpasupplicant doesn't want to bring in any dependencies so that would be all you need
<Aklys> will wpa supplicant work for a rt2500 chipset though?
<bimberi> Aklys: idk sorry, if noone else here answers you could try in #ubuntu (681 users atm)
<GR8WENT> mhz?
<mhz> GR8WENT: yea
<mhz> worked?
<GR8WENT> same
<mhz> :(
<GR8WENT> the screen blanks then goes back to login
<mhz> can the user log in normally at the server?
<GR8WENT> yes
<mhz> is he currently loged in?
<GR8WENT> no
<mhz> does the "client machine" gets an IP from server dhcp ?
<GR8WENT> yes from the breezy
<GR8WENT> it is also doing the NAT
<mhz> hmmm
<mhz> and you have run ltsp-update-sshkeys on the server side ?
<GR8WENT> yes
<GR8WENT> as root?
<mhz> sure
<GR8WENT> 1 sec
<mhz> GR8WENT: how much RAM does the server have?
<mhz> and how much RAM does the client have?
<GR8WENT> 768/128
<GR8WENT> sould I reboot the client?
<mhz> hmmmm
<mhz> not really, but yes
<mhz> go ahead
<GR8WENT> wow
<GR8WENT> yes
<mhz> yes?
<GR8WENT> it was the ltsp-update-sshkeys as root
<mhz> cool!
<GR8WENT> ty so much
<mhz> you're very welcom
<mhz> e
<GR8WENT> pretty fast too
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> just remember not to use too heavy apps at the same time
<GR8WENT> ok, I am going to demo this for a small school district in MN
<mhz> and that the server has to have at least 256 MB of RAM for itself + 128 per client attached to it
<mhz> and each client should have at least 64 MB of ram
<GR8WENT> so i could probably boot three?
<mhz> yep
<mhz> and my advice is that you give lighter desktops a try too
<mhz> ie: xfce4 and windowmaker
<mhz> just in case :D
<GR8WENT> good idea
<firsttimer> hello everyone
<firsttimer> yesterday I downloaded the 6.04 LiveCD of edubuntu. But while booting with it, it did not give me the boot: prompt to enter any options.  Has this been fixed ?.
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: sorry, been out. i'm doing better by the day. how have you been doing?
<jsgotangco> ive been busy lately
<jsgotangco> but having a sane schedule now
<highvoltage> sane schedules++
<JaneW> ogra: ping
<ogra> JaneW, pong
<JaneW> ogra: I just remebered I have an appointment with my son's school teacher tomorrow at 13:30.
<ogra> ok
<JaneW> ogra: she set the time, as it's the time she can see me
<ogra> no problem ...
<JaneW> it's 30 mins before our edubuntu meeting
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> I am hoping it won't go on too long and I can get back quick
<JaneW> but it is likely that I will miss the begining of the meeting
<JaneW> that ok?
<ogra> sure, dont worry, we'll manage the meeting :)
<JaneW> thanks :))
<highvoltage> geez, the cakes have already made the fridge! http://fridge.ubuntu.com/
<JaneW> heh
<JaneW> and canonical quotes page :P
<highvoltage> JaneW: you can now put "world famous cake baker" on your C.V. :)
<JaneW> heh
<highvoltage> anyone know what this is about: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/gins
<Seveas> highvoltage, lol@icing-sugar passwords :D
<highvoltage> Seveas: i actually changed it. i was afraid that it might offend someone :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: a flint thing clearly!
<highvoltage> JaneW: that's about as far as I could interpret it as well!
<jsgotangco> ogra: this \sh life update is depressing
<ogra> jsgotangco, yes
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: Sorry I missed you... you're welcome, and no I don't know what/who Koha is.
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: I'll add more when I dig more up... I should bug some of the teachers I know about it again.
* HedgeMage waves hello to all the folks who are actually awake in here
* highvoltage waves back at HedgeMage 
<ogra> its late afternoon here ... no time to sleep :)
<highvoltage> utah- that's middle america, right?
<ogra> middle of notrh america, yes
<ogra> middle america is nicaragua etc ...
<highvoltage> noted
<ogra> las vegas is in utah ...
<HedgeMage> ;0
<HedgeMage> :) even
* HedgeMage is having shift-key issues
* HedgeMage waves at highvoltage  and ogra 
* highvoltage wonders if HedgeMage is a wavebot
<highvoltage> :P
<ogra> heh
* ogra waves back
<HedgeMage> no, just not totally awake yet.
<HedgeMage> My son let me sleep in until about a half-hour ago :)
<Yagisan> ahh sleep - how I miss thee.
<Yagisan> so how's things going ?
<highvoltage> Yagisan, now there's another name I haven't seen in a while :)
<HedgeMage> Pretty good :)
<Yagisan> highvoltage: probably just missed you. I haven't been on as late as I usually am. Its 4am and I still haven't gone to bed.
<highvoltage> jeez!
<Yagisan> trying to get gentoo installed to see if it has anything cool to pinch for my ubuntu box. It's not very user friendly.
<highvoltage> how so? :)
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, Koha is an ILS (integrated library system). Catalogue to those not in the library business
<highvoltage> i quite like gentoo, but for completely different reasons than Ubuntu.
<Yagisan> The either the installer should match the docs, or the docs should match the installer. But maybe I spoiled from all the Ubuntu and Debian installs I do
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: ahh, no, I hadn't heard of it... do you have a link?
<highvoltage> might be. debian and ubuntu does so much for you automatically.
<Burgwork> koha.org
<ogra> i wonder why its not packaged ...
<ogra> isnt it OSS ?
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I'd like it to tell me if it asks for a stage 1/2/3 , where I can actually find it for starters
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: I know, they took it out of the docs because not all mirrors were doing it consistently... IMHO that made it harder on new users, not easier
<Yagisan> highvoltage: basically I'm interested in their hardened toolchain, and whant to know what I should "borrow"
<Burgwork> ogra, currently it is too hard to package
<highvoltage> Yagisan: i remember using docs here when i installed it once: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/index.xml?catid=install#doc_chap2
<ogra> Burgwork, bah, you cant scare me ...
<Burgwork> ogra, MJ Ray works on Koha and will be packaging it for Debian when 3.0 comes out RSN
<ogra> ok
<highvoltage> Yagisan: but you could also install it with VLOS: http://www.vlos.org
<ogra> then i'll leave it to him 
<highvoltage> Yagisan: it uses Anaconda to install Gentoo
<Yagisan> highvoltage: second link is a suspended page ;)
<highvoltage> Yagisan: sorry, meant this page: http://www.vidalinux.com/
<highvoltage> hi jinty 
<Yagisan> thanks highvoltage
<jinty> hey highvoltage!
<highvoltage> bye, #edubuntu!
<Yagisan> bye highvoltage
<Burgwork> cya
<highvoltage> ciao
<HedgeMage> brb
<RasCaL> I am having issues 
<RasCaL> I wanted to try Kubunutu on my laptop
<RasCaL> it will not recognize my wifi card
<RasCaL> If I install Edubuntu on it, think maybe you could try to help me out with it?
<RasCaL> <<< is iGotNoTime :)
* HedgeMage peeks in
<HedgeMage> RasCaL: I'll help as much as I can :)  I'm an old hat at Linux, but relatively new to Ubuntu/Edubuntu
<RasCaL> :P
<HedgeMage> brb
<RasCaL> I am downloading the ISO again because my brothers have taken my other two
<HedgeMage> Hehe that happens :)
<RasCaL> Going to try to install again, have fun :P
<emmie> Hi
<Burgwork> http://justplainlukee.livejournal.com/14192.html
* enyc has edubuntu installing on a machine....
<enyc> (flight 5 dapper prerelease)
* enyc wondering if PCMCIA-ata goign to work with all the udev/gnomevfs etc.
#edubuntu 2007-03-19
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
<Burgundavia> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi Burgundavia
<Kamping_Kaiser> anyone here part of netday (sp?) in south africa?
* Kamping_Kaiser will have to dig up the correct name
<bddebian> Heya
<capt_kirk> ogra, you around.  possible LTSP bug I wanted to ask you if you've seen before I submit
<capt_kirk> for anyone, for both of the Edubuntu LTSP labs I run if the internet is not available, the LTSP server gets very slow and will not let more than two or three clients log on.  As soon as I can get the internet restored, it gets peppy again and lets all 15 clients log on.  Has anyone else seen behavior like this.  It's a problem here in Tanzania, because our internet connection is not reliable.
<capt_kirk> sbalneav, you around?
<sbalneav> capt_kirk: yes, back from lunch now
<capt_kirk> hi, thanks.  I was wondering if any of you have heard of anything like this: for both of the Edubuntu LTSP labs I run if the internet is not available, the LTSP server gets very slow and will not let more than two or three clients log on. As soon as I can get the internet restored, it gets peppy again and lets all 15 clients log on.
<capt_kirk> I originally thought I was seeing things, but I've been able to reproduce it over and over on both suites
<sbalneav> Never heard of anything like that.  Sounds like either a router issue at your end, or alternatively, some kind of DNS issue, i.e. something not resolving if your internet is down.
<sbalneav> However, there's nothing intrinsically in LTSP that depends on the internet being there.
<capt_kirk> Our internet connection is not very reliable here in Tanzania, and if it's not there when the server starts up, it will let the first couple of clients log on and then it slows dramatically, and the rest of the clients either get partway through the LTSP client boot or don't get an IP address at all.
<capt_kirk> That's what I thought.  I can't find anything in any of the system logs to show why it's slowing down, and top doesn't show anything hogging either the CPU or memory.
<capt_kirk> What I can't figure out is why it lets the first couple of clients boot up, but then won't let more boot after that.
<sbalneav> One of the things you'll want to check is that the machine's official hostname is in the /etc/hosts file, resolvable to the loopback.
<sbalneav> i.e. if the machine's name is "oogabooga", you'll want something like:
<sbalneav> 127.0.0.1 oogabooga oogabooga.your.domain.name
<capt_kirk> I'm pretty sure it's not a router issue, because I'm just using a switch directly between the server and the clients.
<sbalneav> otherwise, if the machine needs to make a DNS lookup to find it's own name, that may slow things down.
<capt_kirk> thanks.  I think it's already set up that way, but I'll check.
<capt_kirk> so, it's 127.0.0.1 localhost, and 127.0.1.1 library library.mtc.local where library is the host name.
<capt_kirk> does it really need to be on 127.0.0.1?  edubuntu put it on 127.0.1.1 by default
<capt_kirk> easy enough to switch here, but it would be nice if it defaulted to the better option if it really matters.
<sbalneav> That's fine too.
<capt_kirk> that's what i thought.  just wanted to make sure.
<capt_kirk> it's that way for both labs
<sbalneav> 127.x.y.z is all the same.  Netmask for 127 is 255.0.0.0
<capt_kirk> that's what I thought. thanks.
<capt_kirk> any other thoughts or places to look in logs, debug options, etc
<capt_kirk> when the clients cannot get an IP address from DHCP, there's no indication of why DHCP has failed in the logs.  When the internet comes back up, DHCP kicks back in with out a restart and issues addresses.
<sbalneav> That will definitely be a DNS issue.
<sbalneav> You using the standard dhcpd.conf filename.
<capt_kirk> I am running a local DNS server along with squid on another box, so any local names should resolve even without the internet
<capt_kirk> yes.  the only thing I've changed in dhcpd.conf is the network address.
<capt_kirk> Yeah.  I just rechecked dhcpd.conf, and all is original except the network address
<capt_kirk> Why would DNS be causing DHCP to die after the first few leases?
<capt_kirk> (brb - have to fix computer for user in lab...  Darn users get in the way of getting any real work done. ;) )
<capt_kirk> sbalneav, back.  So here's where it's an LTSP issue (from my end user's point of view - even if it's really something else, it feels like an LTSP issue, because I can't get the thin client to boot).  I can log on and off of the server and the two or three clients that do get all the way through the initial boot.  It seems like once they have a working thin-client kernel loaded, they're...
<capt_kirk> ...alright.  But any additional clients can't get past the PXE DHCP request.
<capt_kirk> Both suites are "out of the box" Edgy clean installs
<capt_kirk> and both produce identical problems.
<sbalneav> Anything in /var/log/daemon.log?
<capt_kirk> I don't think so, but let me check again.
<cliebow_> dumb question..but i assume you have some leases left available?
<cliebow_> i have in testng used up all my leases
<capt_kirk> sbalneav, nothing unusual during the time that the internet was down this afternoon.  the same dhcp messages as when the internet is up.  no other messages, warning, etc
<capt_kirk> cliebow, good question, but yes leases available.  As soon as the internet comes back, whatever is bogging down the PXE-DHCP request issue (also happens with bootp-DHCP) clears up and the thin clients boot up without a hitch.
<sbalneav> Where does it fail?   Does it GET the ip address, then fail on the tftp? Or does it fail on the lease itself?
<capt_kirk> two different types of failure.  the first few clients to fail actually get a lease and go through most of the boot sequence, but then when they try to start the LTSP client, they error out with a message that says something like "Unable to start job process" and it stays dead on a terminal screen.  Sorry I can't remember the exact wording now, but it doesn't show up on the server logs and I...
<capt_kirk> ...didn't write it down.
<capt_kirk> The other failure mode is just no IP address at all
<sbalneav> Are you at work now? or at home?
<capt_kirk> At home, but one of the labs is just 200 meters away.  (The students might get angry if I boot them off now, though.  A lot are writing papers for tomorrow.)
<capt_kirk> I'm SSH'd into the server to pull up logs, but I'll have to walk over to the lab to do any actual testing
<sbalneav> Assuming it's some kind of a DNS problem, something you could try is to set up a caching DNS server on the local machine, which forwards to your default dns server.  Then, set your /etc/resolv.conf to point to the local dns server, as opposed to the remote one.  You shouldn't NEED to do this, but without looking more closely at your setup, with you there to check on some things, it's the best I can offer at the moment.
<capt_kirk> which I'll be happy to do
<sbalneav> you're ssh'ed in?
<capt_kirk> yes
<sbalneav> Can you paste your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file to the pastebin?
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (be sure to give the URL of your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<capt_kirk> sure
<capt_kirk> I pasted it.  I think it's http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11063/
<sbalneav> domain name's mtc.local?
<ogra> drop .local everywhere, thats reserved for network manager ...
<sbalneav> other than that, it looks pretty bog-standard.
<capt_kirk> Yes.  It's just a campus domain, with no outside resolution
<capt_kirk> ok
<sbalneav> Be interested to see what your resolv.conf looks like
<capt_kirk> just sec
<capt_kirk> I think I may have figured it out.  The DNS server in dhcpd.conf is the router, not the other box with DNS/squid.  But why would that cause the first few to work, with later ones failing?
* sbalneav shrugs
<sbalneav> Not sure on that one.  Like I say, the whole thing seems a little goofy.
<capt_kirk> sorry.  I'm getting too tired.  the dns server listed is the LTSP server, like it was in the default file
<sbalneav> is there a dns server on the ltsp box?
<capt_kirk> all i changed was the network from x.x.0.x to x.x.200.x
<capt_kirk> no, it's on another box on the internet side of the ltsp server (ltsp has two nics. one for clients and one for internet access.)
<capt_kirk> ltsp is 192.168.1.2 and dns/squid is 192.168.1.3
<capt_kirk> with router to the outside world as 192.168.1.1
<capt_kirk> resolv.conf is http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11068/
<capt_kirk> I'll drop the .local
<sbalneav> hmm
<sbalneav> got two cards in this machine?
<capt_kirk> yes.  two cards.
<capt_kirk> 192.168.1.0 is the public-side network and 192.168.200.0 is the ltsp-side of the network.
<capt_kirk> gotta get to bed.  dozing off at the computer.  Tommorrow, I'll take .local off of both suites and try artificially testing by unplugging the internet connection.  Thanks for the help so far.
<rockprincess> evening y'all!
<highvoltage> good evening your majesty!
<LaserJock> hi rockprincess and highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey LaserJock
<rockprincess> hello Laserjock!
* highvoltage is about to hit the bed
<rockprincess> hey highvoltage ;)
<highvoltage> (poor bed)
<rockprincess> hehe me too! but i have a quick question to you guys
<cbx33> hey,,,,,
* cbx33 is feeling really weak
<cbx33> i hate migranes
<rockprincess> hello pete ;) how come???
<rockprincess> why am I not able to have sound on my thin clients?
<rockprincess> i have sound on my server though...
<cbx33> edgy/dapper?
<rockprincess> edgy
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> is edgy sound on by default?
* cbx33 can't remember
<cbx33> nor do i have the brains to think right now
<rockprincess> i came across that subject on the edubuntu mailinglist and noticed that i had a similar problem....
<rockprincess> Stphane Graber said something like the clients are using ESD? what is ESD?
<bddebian> Electro Static Discharge?
<bddebian> Oh, you probably mean the Enlightened Sound Daemon :-)
<rockprincess> yep, that sounds about right.....any ideas how i could enable sound on my thin clients?
* bddebian has no clue :-(
<Burgwork> rockprincess: you need to edit lts.conf
<Burgwork> basically tell the thin client it can use sound
<rockprincess> Burgwork: cool, thanks for the hint! Is there anything particular that I should edit?
<Burgwork> yep, finding you the link now for help
<Burgwork> http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
<Burgwork> search for sound
<rockprincess> Burgwork: cheers, I appreciate your help :) thank you!
<Burgwork> no worries
<Burgwork> bddebian: having not setup LTSP/Edubuntu is no excuse for not knowing the answers
<Burgwork> look at me. I have never installed either LTSP or Edubuntu
<ajmitch> morning
* ajmitch should probably install edubuntu
<Burgwork> morning ajmitch
<Amaranth> i've only played with a live cd
<rockprincess> haha you guys never disappoint me, you ALWAYS have the answers thank you :)
<Amaranth> did any of you get offered sponsorship to go to seville?
<Burgwork> offered sponsorship? nope
<Burgwork> did you?
<Amaranth> Yes and I'm not sure why
<ajmitch> because you're involved with bling
<Burgwork> indeed
<LaserJock> Amaranth: to UDS or UES?
<Amaranth> UDS
<bddebian> Burgwork: I don't know anything, don't you know that yet? :)
<Amaranth> looking for someone else who knows wtf is going on so they can tell me what to do :)
<Burgwork> bddebian: you lie in a horrible horrible manner
<Burgwork> Amaranth: say yes, then get your password in order
<bddebian> Not hardly :'-(
<Amaranth> Burgwork: going to do that tomorrow
<Burgwork> expect a wait
<ajmitch> Burgwork: s/word/port/, I hope
<Amaranth> indeed
* ajmitch has his passport lying around somewhere
<ajmitch> I think
<LaserJock> I got mine for Paris
<Amaranth> that's why i'll do it tomorrow, will have over a month
<LaserJock> so I'm good to go if I get an email
<Burgwork> ajmitch: ?
<ajmitch> Burgwork: I have a messy room, but I saw my passport a few days ago
<ajmitch> so I know it's in there
<Burgwork> ah
<Burgwork> mine went through the wash
<Burgwork> need to get a new one
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> yeah, I've already replaced one for water damage
<Burgwork> it was from Mataro anyway, so it needed to be replaced
<ajmitch> cost a lot
<ajmitch> ah, sevilla, such a long, long way from NZ
<Amaranth> acceptance sent
<ajmitch> well done
<LaserJock> cool
<Amaranth> I feel stupid
<ajmitch> because you'll sit around for most of the week?
<Amaranth> No, because I'm not sure what to do
<Amaranth> Or how stupid I sounded in the email
<LaserJock> Amaranth: you doing SoC?
<ajmitch> about what?
<Amaranth> LaserJock: nope
<ajmitch> what are you unsure about?
<Amaranth> ajmitch: "You are welcome to either make your own arrangements and claim the expense back after the event or use our agents Eyas, dionne@eyas.co.uk."
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> easiest to get their agent book everythign
<Amaranth> I expect doing it yourself would take forever to get compensated. :)
<LaserJock> yeah, dionne is good
<LaserJock> I went with the agents for Paris
<ajmitch> probably not that long, but it's annoying to be broke while there
<LaserJock> they did a lot of work since it was kinda last minute
<LaserJock> and I didn't have to do a thing
<ajmitch> still about 7-8 weeks until UDS
* ajmitch would love to go, really
<ajmitch> at the moment it's blocked on getting time off
<Amaranth> beauty of being unemployed :)
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> what, that you're broke? ;)
<Amaranth> no, lots of free time :)
<stgraber> rockprincess: You've hilighted me ?
<rockprincess> stgraber: oh, yeah actually i just quoted your last email on that rdp and sound matter on the edubuntu mailinglist
<Amaranth> LaserJock: so just send them an email?
<LaserJock> Amaranth: the agent?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> i mean, not right now
<ajmitch> they'll be used to dealing with confused & stunned geeks
<Amaranth> haha
<ajmitch> first time out of the US?
<LaserJock> 2nd time on airplane?
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> Amaranth: yeah, I think you just email them with like what city you'll be flying out of and what day
<cbx33> is it keybuk@ubuntu.com ?
<ajmitch> scott@ubuntu
* ajmitch was just replying to one of his emails :)
<ajmitch> hm, if I went to UDS, maybe I could go via singapore :)
<ajmitch> fly via the US one way, and via asia when I return :)
<rockprincess> good night all, and thanks for your help as always :)
<Amaranth> oops, was eating
<Amaranth> first time out of US, second time flying, yeah
<Burgwork> ogra: you around?
<sbalneav> ogra: ping!
#edubuntu 2007-03-20
<Burgwork> sbalneav: I had no luck pinging him 20 minutes ago
<sbalneav> Anyone else having trouble with the ltsp chroot building during install?
<LaserJock> I hear that a fair amount in here
<cliebow>  sbalneav:something about fd0?
<cliebow> sbalneav:if so http://pastebot.ltsp.org/44
<greg_g> good evening all
<greg_g> for those in the US I guess, good day to all
<greg_g> is anyone around?
<greg_g> I have a question about a different implementation of edubuntu
<LaserJock> what's your question
<greg_g> is there the possibility of a comprimise between thing client setup and fat client setup
<greg_g> I mean, if the clients connected to the main server did more work, like processing
<greg_g> the applications are run on the client, but the data is controlled by the server
<greg_g> does that make sense?
<LaserJock> yeah, I think so
<greg_g> so, like edubuntu, only the applications are being run by the clients instead of everything being run by the server
<greg_g> this would make video and audio playback possible
<greg_g> each client would need more ram than the 128, and a little better processor, but things are cheap
<greg_g> does edubuntu do something like that, or is their talk of doing something like that?
<LaserJock> well, there is local apps
<LaserJock> which is always been somethings that's been tossed around
<LaserJock> which is what you are talking about or maybe similar
<greg_g> yeah
<greg_g> apps run locally
<greg_g> is there documentation about that on the edubuntu site (I haven't found it yet if there is)
<LaserJock> I don't think it's been done yet
<LaserJock> I think we might have a spec on it somewhere
<greg_g> gotcha, it is just being talked about
<LaserJock> and the LTSP guys would probably know more
<greg_g> yeah, I was just in the ltsp channel on this server, but the answer I got was basically "debian-edu kinda does that"
<cliebow> greg-g:might look under local apps on wiki.ltsp.org
<cliebow> cbx33:id  like a look at your code for student-control-panel/thin-client-manager sometime
<cbx33> it's on LP
<cliebow> LP?
<cliebow> ahhh'
<ajmitch> hey cbx33
<cliebow> greg-g:http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LocalApps
<cbx33> hi ajmitch
<cliebow> so to get to your actual code is thru bzr?
<cbx33> yes
<cliebow> thanks..ill dub around at school with that then..
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> cbx33, could you try to find a way to disable the popup (by temporary setting a gconf key or so) of the "your desktop is now shared" message if you use desktop sharing from TCM ?
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> i will have a look
<ogra> that would be nice ...
<cbx33> is the sharing working now?
<ogra> its a bit confusing, esopecially sine you see it on all shared sessions then :)
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> since the last upload before the freeze ...
<cbx33> nice
* cbx33 has been swamped
<cbx33> and had a migrane yesterday
<cbx33> so I've bee na little out of it
<phwx> am newbie but have been playing with ed/k/u amd64 but could not get my wireless to work on hp dv2000 w/broadcom 4311; finally got it to work using ndis1.37 on ed i386 but now cannot access my xp partition?? any suggestions as to how i can re-gain access to xp partition? thanks.peace.
<phwx> am preparing for a meeting so will return later.peace
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<cliebow_> sbalneav: get your chroot fixed?
<cbx33> sbalneav: he's not here
<sbalneav> He'll be back :)
<bddebian> Heya
<cbx33> hi bddebian
<cliebow_> cbx33: any chance of a quick bzr tutorial.using tcm as an example?
<bddebian> Hi cbx33
<cbx33> cliebow: if you check my blog someone has posted a comment about how to do it
<cliebow_> ok cool!
<cbx33> it's something like bzr co http://blahblah tcm
<cliebow_> ok iam on thew right track then
<Net_Spy> hello to all
<Net_Spy> guys im new to edubuntu
<Net_Spy> im having a display problem
<Net_Spy> hellooooooooooooo
<Net_Spy> iz any one awaking
<cliebow_> tell us the deal..perhaps someone can help..
<cliebow_> your blog on launchpad?
<cliebow_> cbx33:your blog on launchpad?
<Net_Spy> ??? any help
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/wordpress
<Net_Spy> regarding that issue
<cbx33> details Net_Spy
<Net_Spy> well i installed edubuntu workstation on my old intel 500 with 40 gb hdd 256 ram
<Net_Spy> with 8 mb of pci vga of matrox
<Net_Spy> all is that i cant use when its trying to logon gui it hangsup thats it
<Net_Spy> any solution ???
<cliebow_> would dpkg-reconfigure xerver-xorg help you?
<Net_Spy> im sure it supose to work with 8mb
<Net_Spy> well it boot and hangsup on black screen
<Net_Spy> nothing happen then
<cliebow_> would dpkg-reconfigure xerver-xorg help you?
<Net_Spy> i wish i could reconfig my xserver when it takes me to console mode init 3
<Net_Spy> i think the defauld settign is for the xserver directly when should i do to make it too go on console rather then going to xserver
<Net_Spy> ???
<cliebow_> Net_Spy, cant you use ctrl-alt-f3 to get a console?
<Net_Spy> i know lt+f1 to till f6 and f7 is for xserver
<cliebow_> and then run dpkg-reconfigure
<Net_Spy> what if it success fully log me in
<Net_Spy> wat abt the xerver how to reconfig it i use xorg -configure command is it fine or should i use something else cliebow_
<cliebow_> just saw your priv msg
<cliebow_> i am no authority..
<rockprincess> howdy all!
<cliebow_> 8~)
<rockprincess> hey cliebow_ ;)
<rockprincess> what's up?
<cliebow_> not much..just getting a handle on the moment
<rockprincess> hello Kamping_Kaiser
<rockprincess> there are no Edgy cds available from shipit right?
<LaserJock> !seen RichEd
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen riched - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<LaserJock> figures
<LaserJock> ogra: have you gotten a new edubuntu-docs package from nixternal by chance?
<sbalneav> LaserJock: I'm about 2/3rds done with the doco cleanup
<LaserJock> awesome
<highvoltage> all by my self
<highvoltage> oops
* highvoltage wants seperate hard disk lights for reading and writing
<cbx33> hheheh
* LaserJock cries
<highvoltage> LaserJock: what's up mon
<highvoltage> (sorry, just talked to a jamaican guy)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I can't get ahold of people I need to talk to
<Tm_T> hi
<sayan_> yo
<Net_Spy> hello to all
<Net_Spy> hi cliebow_
<Net_Spy> thankz but the problem i analyze is the driver issue because i could see my device name in list im using matrox vga
<Net_Spy> does any one have any idea about matrox driver
<Net_Spy> any body here
<sayan_> im here but idk :/
<Net_Spy> does any one have any idea about matrox dirver
<Net_Spy> im unable to find it in provided list of eduentu
<Net_Spy> when i ran dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg i coudnt find my driver inlist
<Net_Spy> wakeup guys
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Ping
<LaserJock> yeah
<ajmitch> hello people
<LaserJock> sbalneav: pong
<sbalneav> hey, doco question
<sbalneav> So, I'm MASSIVELY moving some things around.  Yikes, what a task.
* LaserJock runs
<sbalneav> At any rate, I've been testing by doing a "yelp handbook.xml"
<ajmitch> you'll need to run faster than that
<sbalneav> However, no images show up that way
<sbalneav> now, is that a problem with the XML, or a problem in the way I'm running things?
<sbalneav> i.e. what's the "canonical" (haha) way to view the doco?
<LaserJock> yelp handbook.xml should be right
<sbalneav> Hmm, so if the piccys don't show up, then I need to patch up some xml
<sbalneav> k
<LaserJock> sbalneav: how are inserting the pics?
<sbalneav> I haven't.  These are pics that are there already.  Like in cbx33's SCP section
<LaserJock> well, we can fix that latter, IMO
<LaserJock> but yeah, sounds like some linking problem
<LaserJock> I wonder if stuff moved
<sbalneav> prolly
<sbalneav> ok, I can figure it out.
<LaserJock> looks like to me that it's expecting the png's in the current dir
<LaserJock> but they are in ../../images/C/
<sbalneav> yeah, lemme hack it.
* sbalneav hacks hacks hacks
* LaserJock sbalneav a machete
<LaserJock> *hands
<sbalneav> Machete?  I need a steam-powered broadsword!
<sbalneav> :)
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> some real WMDs ;-)
<sbalneav> You're coming to UDS, right?
<LaserJock> I think so
<Burgwork> sbalneav: how did that pamrmhomedir stuff go?
<LaserJock> gotta get some good spanish food
<sbalneav> I was gonna say, I think they have Subway in spain :)
<LaserJock> nah
<sbalneav> You'll never live that one down.
<LaserJock> I gotta broaden my horizons
<sbalneav> Remember: do as we do, say like we say.
<Burgwork> he asked for subway?
<Burgwork> where
<Burgwork> ?
<LaserJock> maybe I can find a Wendy's
<sbalneav> Long story.
<Burgwork> heh
<sbalneav> We've since corrected his behaviour.
<LaserJock> Burgwork: highvoltage and I ate at a Subway next to Notre Dame
<Burgwork> LaserJock: you sick sick man
<Burgwork> :)
<LaserJock> Scott and Jim were off at some cafe
<ajmitch> mmm, subway
<LaserJock> with a cool french waiter guy
<sbalneav> They redeemed themselves by coming in and joining us for desert and a <haruph>third</harumph> bottle of wine in the delightful little cafe we were eating at.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I'm sure there'll be some food you can eat there :)
<ajmitch> & I really hope you'll be there
<LaserJock> well, after that hotel food I somehow thought all these stories about French cuisine were some sick nightmare
* ajmitch wonders who he'll end up sharing a room with this time
<LaserJock> but yes
<LaserJock> the only places I actually ate at in Paris were McDonalds and Subway
<ajmitch> haha
<LaserJock> oh, well there was the UDS-ending dinner
<ajmitch> sydney was so close to home anyway
<LaserJock> that was good
<sbalneav> Why do you think Jammcq and I never hang around the hotel for dinner.  There's ALWAYS better food than what's at the hotel.
<ajmitch> sbalneav: got grand plans for UDS?
<sbalneav> If we're in spain, we're going out to dinner, and I will buy you a really nice bottle of Amontillado.
<sbalneav> ajmitch: yeah, we need to get ldap put to bed.
<ajmitch> sbalneav: I'm sure we can argue something out in a spec then
<sbalneav> <montypython>Oh, this is complaints, you want arguments, next door</montypython>
<sbalneav> Always up for a good debate.
<ajmitch> heh
<sbalneav> Well, getting time for me to pack up and b*gger off for the day.
<sbalneav> See you all tomorrow.
<sbalneav> Well, later tonight, actually.
<sbalneav> cya
<cliebow>  cbx33: i still cant come up with a bzr link...
<cliebow> cbx33:guess  i figgered  it out..
#edubuntu 2007-03-21
<sbalneav> ogra: pingity
<sbalneav> Hey highvoltage!
<sbalneav> Nice blog post
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: tell sbalneav thanks :)
<edubuntugirl> Righto, highvoltage!
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey Mr LaserZ!
<LaserJock> I could have sworn you just went to bed
<highvoltage> I did
<highvoltage> well, not to sleep
<highvoltage> but it's a public holiday
<highvoltage> so after breakfast I went back to bed
<LaserJock> what time is it here now?
<highvoltage> there? I would guess after midnight?
<highvoltage> here it's 09:47 atm
<highvoltage> (am)
<LaserJock> sorry, *there
<highvoltage> how's it going LaserJock?
<LaserJock> oh, it's going
<highvoltage> such a typical LaserJock reaction :)
<LaserJock> up late writing/making sure MOTU survives another day
<highvoltage> I wish I had more time/energy to get involved in MOTU. I have had several failed attempts :-(
<highvoltage> yesterday I woke up and felt angry again, for the first time in a long time, and it felt good, it gave me lots of energy.
<highvoltage> but I don't want to get my energy from anger, it's the way to the dark side.
<LaserJock> yes, we don't need you going to the dark side
<LaserJock> MOTUs been pretty rough the last couple weeks
<highvoltage> what's been going on?
<highvoltage> please tell me about it.
<ajmitch> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi ajmitch
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I thought that the MOTU council and the new structures would make MOTU more formalised and structured, and that things would generally be more smoothed out?
<LaserJock> :-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: or is it more a case of there just being too much work now before release?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> 'smooth'
<ajmitch> I wish :)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<rockprincess> hello!
<cbx33> hey rockprincess
<cbx33> two ogra_s?
<rockprincess> hey pete ;)
<cbx33> it must be christmas
<rockprincess> haha
<rockprincess> pete, i'd need your help for a minute please?
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> if I can help I will gladly
<cbx33> rockprincess: i have a question for you after that ;)
<cbx33> go go go
<rockprincess> ok, tomorrow I wanna back-up my edubuntu system at school....what would i have to backup (especially for the ltsp configurations as I don't want to set this up again....) and how would I best go for it?
<highvoltage> rockprincess: hey!
<highvoltage> rockprincess: ltsp configuration is stored in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> rockprincess: besides that, you would probably just need to backup the user data
<highvoltage> (and then any other custom changes and servives you might have made)
<cbx33> hehe ;)
<cbx33> rockprincess: just what I was typing
<cbx33> "well.....basically.....i would backup "
<cbx33> that's only as far as I'd got
<highvoltage> cbx33: :)
<rockprincess> highvoltage: ok, what about /etc/ shall I backup that as well and /var/ as well?
<highvoltage> rockprincess: basically, you're the safest backing up *everything*
<highvoltage> if you haven't changed anything in /etc, it won't be that important
<highvoltage> but it should only be 3MB or so so it won't hurt to back up
<cbx33> i wonder if one day they will have brain backups
<cbx33> incase your brain gets corrupt
<cbx33> rock_princess: you still receiving under the other name?
<rockprincess> uppps got kicked....
<rockprincess> [12:49]  <highvoltage> but it should only be 3MB or so so it won't hurt to back up .... was the last message i received
<highvoltage> rockprincess: you just missed cbx33 talking about backing up human brains
<rockprincess> highvoltage: is there maybe a way too make an image, burn it on cd, and if i need to set the system up again, then i could go from there?
<rockprincess> hahaha
<highvoltage> rockprincess: where are you planning to back up to? disk, or DVD (or other?)?
<rockprincess> highvoltage: umm, the problem is i don't have a dvd-burner in my machine at the moment, but i could plug in my usb external hard drive and back it up there and then burn it at home on dvd...
<rockprincess> right now, I'm at home....somehow IRC doesn't work at school, because the ports are being blocked by a firewall or something....
<highvoltage> backing up to external hard disk should be sufficient, although backing up to another medium can't hurt
<rockprincess> cool ;)
<highvoltage> rockprincess: I haven't used it personally yet, but hubackup might work well for you
<pips1> meeting in 2 mins?
<rockprincess> highvoltage: thank you, I'll try and google that :)
<highvoltage> it gives you a GUI where you can choose which directories you want to have backed up
<highvoltage> rockprincess: you can just apt-get install it ;)
<highvoltage> (or synaptic)
<highvoltage> pips1: yep, although riched might not be there, it's a public holiday here today
<rockprincess> highvoltage: excellent :) thank you!!
<pips1> hey, highvoltage :-)
<pips1> ah, public holiday, good for you guys
<pips1> highvoltage: how do you like the new u.c site?
<highvoltage> pips1: I'm still used to the old layout, finding some of the things I'm used to is sometimes a bit more work, but overall, it looks good, I think it's nice.
<highvoltage> pips1: drupal works well for ubuntu.com
<pipedream> it does, doesn't it
<pips1> what are the things that you often look for?
<highvoltage> pips1: I was just looking for the page with information about ubuntu membership, and I ended up using the search button to find it
<pips1> ah
* pips1 looks for himself
<highvoltage> ogra: ping
<highvoltage> pips1: it's not necassarily a design problem with the site, it's just that I knew the old site very, very well, and it takes some getting used to to change
<pips1> highvoltage: well, I think you actually found a bug with the new site..
<pips1> The ubuntu membership information isn't linked from any of the relevant pages, like http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate !
<highvoltage> pips1: earlier this week I also couldn't find some other pages, but I might have overlooked them, can't remember what it was though
<pips1> you might want to file them at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bugs
<rockprincess> highvoltage: wow, this tool looks like what i've been looking for....... :D
<highvoltage> rockprincess: yay!
<pips1> I think there are quite a few free floating non-linked pages, also, there are some 404's
<pips1> ogra: ping ping
* pips1 wonders if the meeting is happening
<highvoltage> cbx33: still around?
<highvoltage> hey gnomefreak
<pips1> highvoltage: I would like to do some testing.. ogra's shell script for rsync'ing the ISOs would be really helpfull, however, it needs to be upated for feisty and the add-on cd...
<pips1> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/rsyncer.sh
<gnomefreak> hi highvoltage
<pips1> ^^^ that one
<highvoltage> pips1: aah
* highvoltage downloads the script
<pips1> maybe you can update it? :-D
<highvoltage> pips1: yep
<pips1> cool!
* pips1 hasn't had lunch
* rockprincess neither :(
<pips1> hi, rockprincess
<rockprincess> hey pips1 :)
<pips1> what would you like for lunch?
* pips1 gets his pots and pans out
<rockprincess> hmmm, good question....anything with noodles, or pizza would be nice :)
<pips1> Asian noodle stir-fry, perhaps?
<pips1> hehe, pizza has always been my favourite :-)
<rockprincess> mhmmmmmmmm yummy
<rockprincess> mine too ;) i could eat pizza 7 times a week :)
<pips1> hehe
<pips1> I made a pizza on Sunday
<pips1> we buy ready-made dough and add vegetables, etc.
<pips1> ack, that meeting isn't happening
<rockprincess> mhmm self-made pizzas are usually the best ;) to die for :)
<highvoltage> oops
* highvoltage just wrote http://jonathancarter.co.za/want-to-get-involved-with-ubuntu-join-edubuntu-today
<highvoltage> anyone mind to check for errors?
* pips1 reads
<rockprincess> sure....
<rockprincess> but the goal is to work well in high school and university environments as well. ... excellent...that's what i wanted to hear :D
<pips1> highvoltage: nice post! I didn't find any typos..
<highvoltage> kewl :)
<highvoltage> firefox spell checker++ ;)
<rockprincess> yeah, good job :)
<highvoltage> thanks pips1 and rockprincess
<sayan_> bye guys
<sayan_> :)
<pips1> I'm off to grab some food...
<pips1> highvoltage: if you get around updating that rsyncer.sh script, please do send me a copy!
<pips1> bye!
<SynrG> in response to jonathan carter's planet post, "hi" :)
<rockprincess> hi SynrG
<SynrG> Ben Armstrong, here, with Debian jr.  in reference to tux4kids, which you use, I work with them a bit (i maintain tuxpaint in debian, for instance)
<SynrG> it seems translations aren't flowing back from rosetta -> debian -> upstream for tuxpaint
<SynrG> the other day on #tux4kids i had a guy who did some czech translations complain
<SynrG> i suggested he take them straight upstream, which he did
<SynrG> it would be nice if this could be ironed out
<SynrG> but i'm not sure how
<highvoltage> hi SynrG!
<SynrG> highvoltage: jonathan carter, i presume?
<highvoltage> SynrG: indeed
<highvoltage> SynrG: I'm not sure why it's not going back upstream, but I can certainly investigate
<SynrG> thanks
<highvoltage> SynrG: we get quite a few people who are interested in translations of all parts of edubuntu, so perhaps there are some other languages that are also stuck somewhere
<highvoltage> SynrG: we'd be absolutely thrilled to have more upstream people in edubuntu, even if you could just be on-board to give us advice from time to time
<SynrG> what's the basic flow for translations?  do they go into subsequent ubuntu revisions of packages, or do they have to flow all the way back upstream first, then go into a new release, then down to debian, then to ubuntu?
<SynrG> i'm really quite ignorant of rosetta
<highvoltage> to be perfectly honest, I'm not 100% sure how it works either. I think it gets submitted back to upstream as .po files
<highvoltage> I think it might be best to ask on #launchpad
<highvoltage> let's join there and ask?
<SynrG> sure
<highvoltage> SynrG: about the localised debian-jr discs, you wouldn't consider basing a version on edubuntu perhaps? (edubuntu's livecd is very easy to customise)
<SynrG> no
<ogra> launchpad only automatically builds the language packs from the .po files, for upstream communication the translation teams should care
<SynrG> well
<SynrG> i should qualify that
<SynrG> i have no problem with ubuntu localised jr discs.
<SynrG> my priority is to make jr work with debian-live
<ogra> theyy should notify upstreams about changes and even probably send the .po files to them ...
<SynrG> as a subgoal, i want debian-live language support working
<SynrG> ultimately we should produce something usable both by debian and ubuntu
<highvoltage> SynrG: thanks for clearing that up
<highvoltage> ogra: there was a meeting scheduled for 12:00, do you think it should be re-scheduled for later this week, or should it wait until next wednesday?
<SynrG> so this leads back to my comment about unnecessary forking ... there's no need for the projects to duplicate locale infrastructure
<ogra> oh crap
<SynrG> we reduce our overall workload if we can agree on a common way to handle it
<ogra> i totally forgot about the meeting, i'm so busy with spinning installs all around me
<SynrG> i understand it's difficult to get buy-in to rosetta, but perhaps at least in structuring tuxpaint i can work out a model for language support in my own packages that makes things as painless as possible
<highvoltage> ogra: it's ok, pips1 was here, and cbx33, and myself, we had some chat in this channel, but no one else was here, it might have been best to just re-schedule
<ogra> we should skip or reeschedule, even though feel free to run it yourself, i cant give much input atm
<highvoltage> it's also a public holiday here in .za, so Riched and willvdl is probably on the beach.
<ogra> only new thing is that we now ship 142 languages :) (since yesterday)
<highvoltage> wow, that's massive
<ogra> apart from that the DCs are buggy atm and i try to get that sorted
<highvoltage> is there any language it doesn't ship?!
<ogra> no, we ship all of them
<highvoltage> cbx33: do you know if there were any news on the artwork front for this week?
<ogra> and we still have about 150M free
<ogra> highvoltage, artwork is done
<ogra> there will only be minor changes if any
<highvoltage> ogra: I think it's best if that 150MB is kept free for now
<cbx33> hey ogra
<cbx33> did yo uget my pm?
<highvoltage> ogra: the reason for that is, if you fill that up with something, people would expect that it is still there for the next release, and then it doesn't leave much space again to add more stuff
<rockprincess> brb......grabing lunch!
<ogra> we will add inkscape to the winfoss side post beta ...
<ogra> thats another 16M
<ogra> but apart from that no further additions are planned
<highvoltage> cool
<highvoltage> ogra: pips1 wants to use your rsync script for syncing edubuntu and disc2, but it needs some updating
<highvoltage> ogra: he asked me to look at it, but I thought since it's your script, you might be able to do it quicker and more effectively
<highvoltage> cbx33: would the gui you wrote perhaps make it easier for pips1?
<cbx33> highvoltage: it's unfunished
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> could be a good GSoC project ;)
<highvoltage> cbx33: hmmm, could indeed
<ogra_> yay
* ogra_ waves from his first beta ltsp install
* cliebow_ cliebow waves back
<Tm_T> I wonder how much space would edubuntu-desktop add to my current kde-gnome twin
<rockprincess> Tm_T: http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/metapackages/edubuntu-desktop
<Tm_T> well thank you sir
<Tm_T> hmh, acpi...
<rockprincess> hmm well doesn't say how much space it uses
<rockprincess> but i think not more than 2gb
<rockprincess> and since you already installed Kde and Gnome....
<Tm_T> yup, not much I notice
<rockprincess> but i think it's a lot less than 2gb
<Tm_T> though I will end up having issues with acpid
<Tm_T> I'm sure
<Tm_T> After unpacking 109MB of additional disk space will be used. <- including acpi stuff
<rockprincess> what is acpi?
<ogra_> the acpi stuff is also in ubuntu and kubuntu-desktop
<ogra_> rockprincess: essential stuff for power management
<bddebian> Heya
<rockprincess> ogra_: ah thank you ;)
<Tm_T> ogra_: yup, usually I just don't need acpi so didn't have it installed in my kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop didn't install fully because this problem etc
<Tm_T> I bypassed it
* Tm_T loves to fix stuff with large axe
<ogra_> then your CPU will always run at full speed with hottest temperature possible
<capt_kirk> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (be sure to give the URL of your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<capt_kirk> ogra and/or sbalneav around?
<highvoltage> hi capt_kirk
<capt_kirk> hi
<capt_kirk> i'm looking for help on an LTSP problem that I chatted with sbalneav about on Monday.
<capt_kirk> The summary of the problem is that if the internet is not available to the ltsp server, it will not allow clients to boot.  If they are already booted, they can stay up, but if you start the clients, they won't boot
<capt_kirk> the first couple of failures end up with a terminal screen that looks like the test I put on pastebin, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11351/
<capt_kirk> after that, the dhcp server stops serving ip addresses and no more clients get past pxe
<capt_kirk> I think the key error in http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11351/ is the failed RPC call, but I don't know how to do any more trouble shooting on the client while it is booting to find the cause of the error.  sbalneav thought it was a dns problem, but I haven't been able to find anything in the logs to narrow down the cause.
<capt_kirk> Any one have any thoughts on places to look for more indications of the cause.
<capt_kirk> (Murphy's law strikes -- Right when I get on here, my wife announces dinner.  I'll be away for a few minutes...)
<capt_kirk> (back from dinner - divorce avoided)
<capt_kirk> any devs have an idea on the above? ogra, sbalneav, cbx33
<capt_kirk> (or others that I missed)
<highvoltage> capt_kirk: congrats ;)
* highvoltage reads problem
<capt_kirk> lol.  thanks
<highvoltage> capt_kirk: I've also experience similar RPC errors, also with the bad file descriptor error, but each time I experienced it I've been unable to fix it, it's the only part of LTSP that drives me mad
<sbalneav> capt_kirk: What kind of switch do you have?  Managed, or unmanaged?
<edubuntugirl> sbalneav: by the way, highvoltage told me to tell you 'thanks :)' 8 hours, 38 minutes and 30 seconds ago (on Wed Mar 21 09:42:13 2007)
<capt_kirk> it was driving me crazy, because I was only seeing it in one of the two labs that I've set up with Edubuntu LTSP.  But on Monday, our internet was down in the other lab, and I finally put it together that it's the failed internet connection that is causing it.  I can recreate it over and over by unplugging the internet connection.
<capt_kirk> sbalneav: unmanaged.  but even if the switch is working, but the internet is out upstream it doesn't work.
<capt_kirk> example: both labs get their internet from a wireless WAN in town.  Today, the secondary school lab had a good connection into town, but the ISP in town was down.  So we had a connection to the WAN, but not to the internet.  The error that I posted to pastebin was from that time.
<capt_kirk> (hand copied off of screen, so it may have a few capitals and commas/colons out of place)
<capt_kirk> sbalneav: i fixed the .local issue, and I'm still getting the same behavior.  I even added the ltsp server to the proxy server's host file, and vice-versa.  Still the same.
<capt_kirk> sbalneav: I'll be happy to submit a bug report, but I didn't want to do it without chatting first to make sure it's not already been reported.  Also any pointers on how to get more debugging info from the thin-client boot process would be appreciated.  I've looked at the initramfs filesystem after it errors out, but I haven't been able to find any boot logs or the like.
<capt_kirk> highvoltage: can you remember if your internet connection was up when you had the RPC errors?
<capt_kirk> sbalneav: by the way, I'm looking forward to testing your persistent home folder.  Will it be fully functional in the Feisty beta?  (I haven't put the alphas of Feisty on either production system, but I'll be willing to put the beta on the secondary school system.)
<highvoltage> capt_kirk: no, I had no internet connection in all the cases where I experienced it :-/
<highvoltage> capt_kirk: but in the one case, I did remove and add one of the network cards in the server, and then it just worked again
<highvoltage> capt_kirk: I had a suspicion it *might* have had something to do with what the default gateway was set to, but I'm still not sure
<capt_kirk> highvoltage: (scratches head)
<sbalneav> Well, it's not really a PERSISTENT home folder, the joke is it's exactly the opposite.  It's a home directory that gets created and removed on command.
<highvoltage> people generally suggest that RPC errors is hardware related, but I'm convinced there's a bug in Ubuntu's NFS
<highvoltage> the problem is, I don't know how to reproduce it reliably.
<capt_kirk> If you get a chance, could you try unplugging your internet connection and see if it errors out like mine did.  Both of my labs will reproduce it reliably that way.
<highvoltage> capt_kirk: although, what I've also found is, if you really need the lab up, is to shut everything down, then start the server, then start up all the clients... one.. by... one.
* highvoltage bbl
<capt_kirk> sbalneav: yeah, that's what I meant.  I forgot exactly what you called it in the spec.  But I like the use case of keeping the home folder on a thumb drive.
<capt_kirk> highvoltage: yeah.  when I'm getting the error, that seems to help.  If I bring up more than one at a time while the internet is down, that's when I get the error that two will log on, two will fail with the errors on pastbin, and the rest will not get an IP address.  But as soon as the internet comes back up, I can boot all 15 clients at the same time with no problem.
<capt_kirk> within just a few seconds after the internet is plugged back in, all of the clients will get an IP address and boot with no problem.
<capt_kirk> sbalneav: do you know what /scripts/nfs-premount does? It seems like the RPC error is coming during its execution.
<capt_kirk> "mount: RPC: timed out
<capt_kirk> mount: mfsmount failed: bad file descriptor"
<capt_kirk> oops, typo -- mount: nfsmount failed
<ogra_> capt_kirk, the error means that for some reason the client cant connect to the portmapper (RPC) of the server to mount its / via nfs
<capt_kirk> ogra, sorry lost my connection.  last message received was "capt_kirk, the error means that for some reason the client cant connect to the portmapper (RPC) of the server to mount its / via nfs"
<cbx33> capt_kirk, ko
<cbx33> right
<cbx33> not reading above
<cbx33> does each server have a DNS entry
<cbx33> either on a dns server
<cbx33> or in hosts?
<capt_kirk> both labs are 6.10.  pretty vanilla.  I haven't done anything fancy.
<cbx33> hmm
<capt_kirk> cbx33, both have a dns entry and in both hosts
<ogra_> you have a router to the internet ?
<ogra_> and has the server one or two NICs ?
<capt_kirk> the dns is on another box with squid.  in both host files, I've entered the other server and the dns lists both
<capt_kirk> ltsp server has two nics
<ogra_> so one is dedicated for the clients ?
<capt_kirk> yes.  on a different subnet.  with dhcpd.conf setup by 6.10 clean install
<ogra_> and the other one points to the outside world, right ?
<capt_kirk> dhcpd is only serving addresses on the client side
<capt_kirk> the outside world is static address on the other nic
<capt_kirk> sorry.  we're having a hard time keeping a reliable connection into town tonight.
<capt_kirk> what was the last message you received from me?
<cbx33> <capt_kirk> the outside world is static address on the other nic
<capt_kirk> last I received was "<ogra_>	and the other one points to the outside world, right ?"
<capt_kirk> Rest was"<capt_kirk>	router is 192.168.1.1, ltsp is 1.2, dns is 1.3
<capt_kirk> 	<capt_kirk>	all static
<capt_kirk> 	<capt_kirk>	works every time when the internet is up. fails every time when it's down.
<capt_kirk> 	<capt_kirk>	took me a while to put the connection together.
<capt_kirk> 	<capt_kirk>	but now I can faithfully reproduce it by disconnecting the internet at any point from the nic, to the switch, to the router, or even in town.
<ogra_> define "disconnecting the internet"
<ogra_> what exacly do you disconnect ? the wire from the switch to 192.168.1.1 ?
<capt_kirk> At first, it was that our WAN connection into town was down.  Different subnet downstream of the gateway router.  But now I can recreate it by disconnecting 192.168.1.1 from the switch
<capt_kirk> I can also recreate it by taking down the WAN on the other side of 192.168.1.1.  So it's not dependent on the gateway being down.  It's truly dependent on being able to reach the greater internet.
<capt_kirk> My local DNS is just a basic bind setup that connects to a dns server on the other side of our ISP, so my first thought is to agree with sbalneav that it seems like a dns problem
<ogra_> disconnecting 192.168.1.1 from the switch is a bad idea, your server will try to send all packages through it first if it is still defined as the gateway...
<capt_kirk> but that doesn't really make sense, because both servers are listed in the local dns, and dig works for both of them, even if I've disconnected from the internet.  (and they're both listed in each other's host files, which are first in the lookup order)
<ogra_> s/gateway/default gateway/
<ogra_> i'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with dns... nothing in ltsp5 uses any dns
<capt_kirk> ogra: ahh, ok.  even the packets to the clients on the other subnet?  192.168.0.0 is the ltsp network.  192.168.1.0 is the outside world
<ogra_> by defult everything on the cleint side is IP based
<ogra_> so that shouldnt be affected by any dns breakage
<capt_kirk> but I can recreate it even by taking down the network on the other side of the gateway.
<cbx33> ogra_, did you get my pm?
<cbx33> it's just a quick question
<ogra_> cbx33, yes, i dont do any SoC management ... thats doko and Keybuk
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> I nkow
<cbx33> bear with me
<capt_kirk> ok
<ogra_> i will probably mentor one student who steps up for the parental control thing but apart from that i didnt plan to put any time into SoC
<ogra_> *any*
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> well.....check the pm......and lemme know your opinions
<ogra_> sigh
<ogra_> thats all very nice
<cbx33> ok
<ogra_> what shall i say about it ?
<cbx33> well....
<cbx33> dude
<cbx33> you kinda run edubuntu
<ogra_> talk to the SoC managers
<cbx33> was hoping you could say....yes this would be good for edbunutu
<cbx33> else there is no point putting the time and effort in if you don't think something would be useful
<ogra_> yes, all kind of educational orineted apps are good for edubuntu
<cbx33> ok
<sayan_> \o/
<cbx33> hey sayan_
<sayan_> !
<ogra_> be sure if the proposals are at google and have to be rated i will be doing that since i have to ... for now just follow the google procedures to get it on the list first
<cbx33> it's all there brother ;)
<capt_kirk> ogra, any pointers on how to troubleshoot further?  I haven't seen any differences in the server's log files when it's working and when it's failing.  And I haven't found any log files on the initramfs when the client has errored out.
<capt_kirk> Does the client keep any boot logs, or is the text flowing by on the screen all that there is?
<capt_kirk> ogra, should I submit a bug report against ltsp or the portmapper?  Any pointers on troubleshooting in the logs to get a better bug report would be appreciated.  Does the client keep any boot logs, or is the text flowing by on the screen all that there is?
<sbalneav> capt_kirk: is this still the dhcp that's causing the trouble?
<capt_kirk> sbalneav, yes, the same problem we were discussing on monday.  but it's more than just dhcp.  The first couple of clients can boot up and log on.  The next couple of clients get an ip address and kernel, then error out with a terminal screen that looks like the test I put on pastebin, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11351/  Then any other clients can't get an ip address from dhcp.
<capt_kirk> I've isolated it to the internet being down.  I can faithfully reproduce it by either disconnecting the internet at the switch or by taking down the WAN on the other side of the gateway.
<capt_kirk> sbalneav or ogra, any ideas on where else to look for the source?
<capt_kirk> of the problem, I mean.
<sbalneav> ok, here's what I'd suggest
<sbalneav> use the strace command
<capt_kirk> ok
<sbalneav> do an:
<sbalneav> strace -p <processid of the dhcp server> -o outputfilename
<sbalneav> this will attach to the dhcp server, and start tracing he call stack.
<capt_kirk> ahh.  how about the same thing for the portmapper?
<sbalneav> when it hangs, or fails to do something, you'll be able to see WHICH hostname it's trying to look up, and figure out why it needs the inet there.
<sbalneav> Same thing
<capt_kirk> strace -p <processid of the portmapper> -o outputfilename
<sbalneav> Do you have ldap going at your site?
<capt_kirk> no.  i did, but it was a pain to set up.  waiting for the authentication server and client.  it was giving me a headache.
<capt_kirk> (relative linux newbie...)
<sbalneav> here's another one.  What does your /etc/nsswitch.conf file look like?
<capt_kirk> just sec
<capt_kirk> I think it's straight forward, but here it is: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11373/
<sbalneav> Try this
<sbalneav> for hosts
<sbalneav> hosts: files dns [UNAVAIL=return] 
<capt_kirk> ok
<sbalneav> but also doing the strace will tell you what it's trying to look up.
<sbalneav> you'll get a gethostbyname link
<sbalneav> what do you get when you issue the hostname command?
<capt_kirk> ok.  will try all those.  thanks for the pointers.
<capt_kirk> just sec
<capt_kirk> we're living on the college campus, and I can easily ssh into the college lab.  On it, I get the right host name, library
<sbalneav> ok, /etc/hostname says library?
<capt_kirk> I can't ssh into the secondary school lab, but I'll check it tomorrow morning.  It should be cams-ltsp
<capt_kirk> yes
<sbalneav> oh, the lib machine isnt the machine in question.
<capt_kirk> they're identical.  with the same error.
<sbalneav> what you want to make sure of is that hostname == /etc/hostname == line in /etc/hosts with that exact name resolving to a local ip address.
<capt_kirk> two different suites.  same setup same issue.  just different naming schemes
<capt_kirk> ahh.  now I understand.  Let me check that
<sbalneav> What you want to avoid is, if the machine needs to look up it's own hostname, that it needs to make a DNS query for that.
<capt_kirk> yes.  both hosts and hostname have the same name, library.  I'm sure it's the same at the secondary school, but I'll check in the morning.
<capt_kirk> and I've set the hosts file to have the addresses for both the ltsp server and the dns server in each other's hosts files.  also the local bind server has both in it.
<capt_kirk> sbalneav, thanks.  that gives me a good basis for troubleshooting tomorrow.  time for bed now, it's 9:30 pm here.  I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.
<sbalneav> Okiedokie, let us know.
<cliebow_> i see my feisty install passing addresses to the outside interface..
<cliebow_> just my sandbox..
<capt_kirk> sbalneav, i just reconfigured the WAN routers in town to let me ssh into the secondary school server, and both the hostname and hosts are the same, cams-ltsp.  so that shouldn't be causing the problem.  but I'll try the recommendations tomorrow.  night.
<capt_kirk> thanks again for patience and support.  great os that is really helping students in both schools.
<cbx33> sblaneav is it the old dns issue again?
<LaserJock> hi Pete
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<cliebow_> cbx33: anywhere near right?? bzr get http://launchpad.net/~petesavage/trunk/tcm ~/tcm
<cbx33> should be
<cliebow_> it worked at home on my pos..here i get not a branch
<pips1> hello again
* pips1 starts to download the daily amd64 build
<cbx33> should work
<pips1> cbx33: you tested it?
<cbx33> tested what?
<pips1> daily amd64 build
<pips1> ah, your comment was for someone else
<cliebow_> justme
<pips1> heh
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: goodnight!
<edubuntugirl> Goodnight, highvoltage, have fun counting your electric sheep!
<highvoltage> night edubuntero's!
<LaserJock> sbalneav: pingy pingy
<ajmitch> ping him & he runs away..
<LaserJock> ajmitch: typical ;-)
<kigurai> Does anyone have any directions on where to go to get more information if one is interested in making a web frontedn for the thin client manager as a Google Summer of Code project?
<LaserJock> kigurai: what do you mean?
<kigurai> LaserJock: Ubuntu has a proposed idea for the summer of code with that name, and I thought it sounded interesting.
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> you want more info?
<kigurai> But I have never touched edubuntu or the thin client manager :)
<kigurai> Exactly
<LaserJock> ah
<kigurai> The abstract of the idea was not very...detailed ;)
<LaserJock> kigurai: do you happen to have a Feisty install around?
<kigurai> No, unfortunately not
<kigurai> I was thinking of reinstalling after release
<LaserJock> ok, np
<LaserJock> I'm thinking it might not help that much if you don't have an LTSP server up
<Burgwork> kigurai: I posted the idea and cbx33 is the maker of the thin client manager
<Burgwork> basically, you need to create a simple web frontend to the existed thin-client-manager-backend
<kigurai> Burgwork: So, what languages and techniques are preferred?
<sayan_> pYthOn
<Burgwork> well, tcm is written in phython
<sayan_> o/
<Burgwork> and we are big python people here in ubuntu/edubuntu
<kigurai> Great, I love working with python :)
<LaserJock> kigurai: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StudentControlPanelSpec is a spec about it
<LaserJock> kigurai: first off, Thin Client Manager used to be called Student Control Panel
<Burgwork> you only need one computer to test ltsp
<Burgwork> install on one and use vmware to test a thin client
<LaserJock> oh yeah
<kigurai> Burgwork: I assume all of it are in the edgy repos?
<Burgwork> you will want to be using feisty
<LaserJock> you need to be able to run the dhcp off of the server though don't you?
<Burgwork> yes, but that isn't too bad
<LaserJock> what if your server is getting it's connection via dhcp
<kigurai> Burgwork: Ah, well that won't be a problem after April 19 ;)
<LaserJock> doesn't it get confused?
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> two dhcp servers on the same subnet is a race condition
<LaserJock> kigurai: the Beta will be out shortly (in the next few days)
<Burgwork> kigurai: are you familiar with using twisted to do web stuff?
<kigurai> LaserJock: I know, but I am gone for two weeks on vacation, so I thought I'd just wait...
<kigurai> Burgwork: No, not really
<Burgwork> ok
<kigurai> Burgwork: But I did some webprogramming with python for work last summer
<Burgwork> generally, from what I understand, most python web apps use python, rather than apache and mod_python
<LaserJock> mod_python can be a pain
<kigurai> I am pretty sure we were using python and not mod_python
<kigurai> Thanks for the spec for StudentControlPanel, I'll take a look there.
<Burgwork> kigurai: talk with ogra and cbx33 as well
<Burgwork> cbx33 == pete savager
<Burgwork> savage, rather
<kigurai> Burgwork: I actually emailed Pete today about thisproject,
<Burgwork> ok, rock
<kigurai> And also about the Teacher gradebook which I was also interested in
<Burgwork> umm, don;t we already have schooltool for that?
<Burgwork> and regardless, the web stuff is probably a big enough project on its own
<kigurai> Burgwork: I was considering applying for both but doing only one ;)
<Burgwork> another idea you might want to consider is extensions to willow-ng, the content filter in Edubuntu
<Burgwork> for that Amaranth is your person
<Amaranth> haha
<kigurai> Aha, will check on that as well. Also a python project I assume?
<Burgwork> yes
<Amaranth> willowng is far from anyone else being able to work on it
<Amaranth> I _really_ need to sit down and at least set it up so that others working on it take it the way I think it needs to go
<kigurai> Amaranth: Ok, I'll scratch that from my list then ;)
<Amaranth> of course i haven't worked on it in about 6 months so... :/
* Burgwork spanks Amaranth for not being a good maintainer
<Amaranth> Burgwork: The bling! It blinds me!
<Burgwork> heh
<Amaranth> and apparently gets me sponsorship to UDS
<Amaranth> willowng work does sound interesting to do right now though
<Amaranth> or work on a gnome-mag interface to compiz
<sayan_> who knows edubuntu mentors? :p
<Amaranth> btw, i've found that asking ogra what he thinks would be good to work on is a good way to get accepted
<LaserJock> sayan_: mentor's for Edubuntu SoC projects?
<sayan_> yep
<sayan_> ill write my project
<sayan_> =D
<sayan_> math system for children
<sayan_> o/
<LaserJock> well, I'm trying to get signed up
<LaserJock> my application for mentorship is "
<LaserJock> "pending"
<sayan_> maybe scott try to be my mentor
<kigurai> So, how much programming experience do you have to have to get accepted as a SoC student? I'm having a hard time putting myself on some kind of skill scale...
<Burgwork> kigurai: what is your dev experience?
<kigurai> Burgwork: I was paid to program for a major pharmacy company last summer modyfing some python webb app. Also did some C/C++ for a computational program.
<Burgwork> that is more than I have
<kigurai> I have read computer engineering at the university for two years
<kigurai> I think I am a quite skilled programmer in general, I have just never really dived into a project real deep...
<Burgwork> well, the advantage of extending an existing project is you get to draw on the experience of the existing developers
<Burgwork> oh, and one more thing about the tcm webfrontend
<kigurai> Burgwork: Hit me :)
<Burgwork> part of the reason we need a web frontend is for poor teachers stuck on windows
<Burgwork> hence it needs to work in IE
<Burgwork> heh
<sayan_> omg
<sayan_> :p
<kigurai> Ah, well I have a windows partition, so it's no problem really ;)
<sayan_> i have a windows partition too
<sayan_> to play world of warcraft ^^
<Burgwork> heh
<stgraber> sayan_: WoW works fine with wine if you have an NVidia card :)
<sayan_> i have ati
<kigurai> sayan_: I am a civ4 player right now, only reason... Yeah, and to pack a project I am working on with py2exe
<stgraber> sayan_: no luck
<Burgwork> kigurai: it doesn't need to run on windows
<sayan_> im a rogue lvl 70 o/
<Burgwork> it just needs to be able to viewable in IE
<kigurai> kigurai: Doesn't it? Well, I need to test it in Windows anyway so... :)
<kigurai> Ah, speaking abput differnet things I guess, sorry
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> it would run on the ltsp server, which woudl be edubuntu
<Amaranth> hmm, i wonder if it's possible to switch from bzr to git without losing history
<Burgwork> tailor can probably do it
<kigurai> Burgwork: Exactly what functionality is the web interface suppsoed to provide?
<Burgwork> kigurai: view screens, lock screens, turn off internet on clients, start/stop programs on clients
<Burgwork> pretty much everything but share screen from teacher to student
<kigurai> Hmm, I guess the hard part would be to get video embedded then?
<Burgwork> the video wall? no diea
<kigurai> Guess you could perhaps grab screenshots at regular intervals if one has to...
<Burgwork> well, there is already a backend written
<Burgwork> all you need to do is interface with it
<kigurai> Burgwork: Well... that helps I guess ;)
<kigurai> Burgwork: Sweet
<kigurai> Is it possible to view the backend code online somewhere?
<Burgwork> you can pull down the source or find out where cbx33 keeps his code
<sayan_> cbx33 is a nice guy :D
<Burgwork> he is
<kigurai> Burgwork: I tried fooling around inside launchpad earlier today, but did not find any code :|
<kigurai> Guess I'll have to ask cbx33 then
<kigurai> Or, where is the source located?
<kigurai> Guess I could always download it
<sayan_> guys i gtg
<sayan_> i have a test friday :(
<sayan_> cya :)
<LaserJock> cya
* sayan_ away
<cliebow> kigurai:from what i can understand ogra used  vnc2swf in lieu of x11vnc to capture client desktops..
<cliebow> i have a bzr link to tcm
<kigurai> cliebow: Ah, sounds like that would make things quite a lot easier...
<cliebow> sudo bzr checkout http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~petesavage/tcm/trunk ~/tcm
<cliebow> i still use teachertool woth an extra button to  enable x11vnc on clients an capture client desktop
<kigurai> cliebow: Why the "sudo"?
<cliebow> oh..ubuntu deprsctes login as rot
<cliebow> more or less
<cliebow> getting dark here
<kigurai> "deprsctes"?
<cliebow> ahhh..lights
<cliebow> deprecates
<kigurai> ahh...
<Burgwork> cliebow: isn't teachertool written in fltk?
<kigurai> Guess I'll have to start with a "sudo apt-get install bzr" then ;)
<Burgwork> teachertool, from what I have seen, isn't really that user friendly
<cliebow> well..for me i love it.tells me what user is on what client..what processes they are running..and the button i added to view desktops..either view oly or takeover..gives me the functionality i need
<Burgwork> yep, but you need to understand thigns like processes, etc.
<cliebow> so i can nx to a remote school..and take over a desktop
<cliebow> i guess..it works for me anyway..
<Burgwork> well, given we are talking about this in an irc chan...
<cliebow> i use an  icewm desktop so can see when the cpu is maxxed..one click tells me who.then i can view-only their desktop and see if it is justified..open an nedit session and speak with the user..
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> cliebow the Edubuntu cop
<cliebow> then if they give me any shit...log em off and take away their firefox..usually
<cliebow> saying a .ot since i am an anarchist at heart
<cliebow> Burgwork, i still use the old python teachertool
<cliebow> but i am Seriously interested in what Pete has done..
<cliebow> ^_^  ^_`
<LaserJock> Burgwork: btw, it's Keybuk and doko doing SoC
<Burgwork> ah
<LaserJock> I still confuse Scott and Colin :/
<crimsun> keybuk and cjwatson?
<LaserJock> yes
<cliebow> Soc is?
<LaserJock> keybuk and kamion
<LaserJock> ;-)
#edubuntu 2007-03-22
<mpo> can someone help me with some live cd questions?
<mpo> I am curious why the live dvd is only 486 mb
<mpo> is there a time that this channel is more active?
<bimberi> mpo: yes
<bimberi> mpo: where are you seeing that size for the dvd image?
<pygi> ogra, poke
<mpo> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/
<pygi> or is it ogra_ ? :P
<bimberi> mpo: the .iso files are "4.4G"
<mpo> feisty-dvd-i386.iso          21-Mar-2007 13:03  4.4G  Install/live DVD for PC (Intel x86) computers (standard download)
<mpo> i chose this from the list but when the download prompts it show as 439 mb
<mpo> iso
<bimberi> mpo: ah, let me try
<bimberi> hm, shows as 4535.1MB here (in the Firefox download window)
<mpo> hmmm
<mpo> you are right
<mpo> had firefox on another pc this only has explorer
* bimberi tries wget
<bimberi> yep, looks about the right size.  Too much for my dialup connection :)
<mpo> hmmm firefox does not seem to let me download to a mapped drive though
<mpo> always want to save to my desktop
<bimberi> right-click -> save as...   should let you navigate elsewhere
<mpo> bimberi: only lets me save the link
<mpo> anyway I can figure that out...do you know if the live CD has the manuals included?  ..not the dvd
<bimberi> *save link as*  ?
<bimberi> mpo: there is documentation and most packages include manpages
<mpo> hmmm the kTurtle programming program errored out when try to access it from the help ....do I have to just browse to a directory to read them instead?
<bimberi> mpo: unfortunately that I don't know about sorry.  Hopefully someone else...
<mpo> if I want the live cd or dvd to have flash...java...so that it can browse the web do I have to install to a hdd and then re-image it after I install them
<bimberi> you can install packages while running the LiveCD.
<bimberi> (temporary to the session of course)
<mpo> but how can I do it permanetly for the cd ... the reason I ask is because java...mp3..and what have you have a max distribution limit ans that is why they are not included in the OS
<mpo> at least thats why I think
<bimberi> !uck
<ubotu> UCK is a tool that helps you customise official Ubuntu Live CDs (including Kubuntu/Xubuntu and Edubuntu) to your needs. See http://uck.sourceforge.net/
<calimer> I was just wondering, why are the system requirements for edubuntu so high?
<calimer> I want to install it on a 450 mhz computer with 64 mb of ram
<bimberi> calimer: that would be OK as a thin-client connected to an Edubuntu LTSP server.  As a standalone it will need more RAM.  128MB at least (and will probably still be quite slow)
<calimer> I'm not familiar to the concept of a thin-client
<calimer> that is interesting that it would need more to be standalone
<calimer> I don't need to connect it to the net or anything, I just want to have educational stuff on the computers for the kids
<calimer> i supposed I could just grab the individual programs
<calimer> ubuntu in general seems to have somewhat high system requirements
<calimer> even for the xfce type
<calimer> I was running mandrake with xfce on my 350 mhz with no problem
<bimberi> you could try Xubuntu then ...
<bimberi> !xubuntu
<ubotu> xubuntu is Ubuntu with Xfce instead of Gnome. For more info, see http://www.xubuntu.org and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/ - To install from Ubuntu: "sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop". | For support, see #xubuntu | See also: !ubuntu and !xubuntu-channels
<bimberi> or even ...
<bimberi> !fluxbuntu
<ubotu> fluxbuntu is a LPAE-standard compliant, Ubuntu-based derivative that maintains the goal of running on a wide range of mobile devices and computers (low-end & high-end). It is lightweight, swift and efficient. | Support Channel: #fluxbuntu on freenode | Homepage: http://fluxbuntu.org/
<calimer> even for that install I think it wanted 256 ram
<calimer> oh 128
<bimberi> yes, for the LiveCD installer.  There is a text based "alternate" installer which is much less hungry ...
<bimberi> !alternate
<ubotu> The Alternate CD (available as of Dapper) is the classical text-mode installation CD. Use it if you wish to upgrade via CD, or for an "expert" mode install. For normal installs, use the Desktop CD, which is also a "Live" CD.
<calimer> thank you for your help, I'm excited to help teach the kids about linux
<calimer> right now the computers are running windows 98 first edition and can't even install a driver for my thumb drive
<bimberi> you're welcome :)
<bimberi> I've found this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_client
<calimer> are you a developer for edubuntu?
<bimberi> No. Just someone who likes to help out.
<calimer> ah because I want to suggest some software for it
<bimberi> I'd suggest posting to the edubuntu-devel mailing list
<bimberi> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
<calimer> good idea, sounds great
<calimer> I think I want to make a sandbox game for kids
<calimer> where they can design their own 3D worlds and interact in them
<bimberi> something like Kahootz?
<bimberi> (which is proprietary software btw)
<calimer> not sure but I'm going to check it out
<calimer> mine would be free
<bimberi> calimer: hence that sounds fantastic!
<calimer> kahootz looks like good inspiration
<bimberi> I only know about Kahootz through helping classes at my sons' school with it
<calimer> I want to make something that helps kids make their own stories too
<calimer> though that is a bit tougher
<calimer> for me I run a before and afterschool at an elementary school for grades k-5
<calimer> and I salvaged those two computers that they were throwing away at my admin building
<calimer> I have tuxpaint and childsplay on them for the kids and they love it
<bimberi> cool :)
<calimer> yeah it's awesome
<calimer> but I want to show them how to make games and level design
<calimer> and I can't really show them my past work which is at http://lms.d3files.com a little inappropriate for them
<bimberi> er, yes :)
<calimer> thanks for the kahootz link
<calimer> this software looks very interesting
<calimer> I'm going to see about ordering the demo
<bimberi> it's very good.  I'd love to see a Free Software equivalent.
<calimer> well the in game level designing part will come quickly
<calimer> but these extra features will take longer
<calimer> I know one thing I have already made with some friends is a huge slide
<calimer> and then a jump pad that shot us back up to the top
<calimer> have you ever heard of alice?
<bimberi> no
<calimer> http://www.alice.org/
<calimer> not sure how similar it is to kahootz but seems quite similar
<calimer> might be the free equivalent
<bimberi> looks very interesting - thanks!
<calimer> I made a small movie with it, it seemed pretty cool
<calimer> I'm interested to know how it compares to kahootz if you check it out
<calimer> I need to get to bed, up early for the morning program.  Take care and thank you for your help :)
<bimberi> You're welcome.  Good luck.
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
<sbalneav> I sent off an updated manual to ogra to look over
<sbalneav> Got some time right now?
<LaserJock> some yeah
<LaserJock> what's up?
<sbalneav> Hold on, lemme dcc you the updated manual
<sbalneav> dccccccc
<sbalneav> See it?
<LaserJock> well, kinda
<LaserJock> I can't tell how to get it
<LaserJock> I'm in irssi
<sbalneav> ah, ok.
<sbalneav> ummm
<sbalneav> hm
<LaserJock> wahoo, recieving
<sbalneav> I closed it, try again
<LaserJock> got it
<sbalneav> coolio
<LaserJock> so these have all your changes?
<sbalneav> yeah, so far
<sbalneav> When's our deadline?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> ASAP
<LaserJock> we're already past the doc team's string freeze
<LaserJock> and we're at Beta Freeze
<sbalneav> Well, if it went on the disk now, it's at least accurate.
<sbalneav> and much more complete than before
<LaserJock> yeah
<sbalneav> The naming's been reoganized
<LaserJock> what we need is to get stuff for the translators to work on
<LaserJock> if we have some minor changes here and there it's fine
<sbalneav> Well, it's ltsp5 accrurate now, and the boot process is explained.
<sbalneav> The manual's about tripled in size since we started, between my ltsp stuff and cbx33's SCP section
<sbalneav> but he needs to pat ch that up quick for the rename to TCM
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ok, well I need to take a quick shower
<LaserJock> sbalneav: then I'll get these changes into the svn repo
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: LaserJock++
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: LaserJock
<edubuntugirl> LaserJock is Jordan Mantha
<LaserJock> at least she knows who I am
<Burgundavia> hmm, no cbx33 yet
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: she?
<bimberi> calimer: Lots of similarities between Alice and Kahootz.  The latter is not really focussed on teaching programming, just animation/content-creation. Hence it works well for early ages (the class I helped out with was Year 1 (5/6 year olds))
<bimberi> edubuntugirl: Burgundavia
<edubuntugirl> bimberi: I'm not following you...
<Burgundavia> ahh
<bimberi> edubuntugirl: LaserJock
<edubuntugirl> LaserJock is Jordan Mantha
<Burgundavia> edubuntugirl: Burgundavia
<edubuntugirl> Burgundavia: *blink*
<Burgundavia> hope
<Burgundavia> nope, rather
<Burgundavia> edubuntugirl: Burgwork
<edubuntugirl> Burgundavia: what?
<crimsun> Alice really doesn't work all that well
<bimberi> Burgundavia: so _she_ doesn't know who you are :)
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> a frequent problem i have with women :)
<crimsun> people still get caught up in the ideas of dragging and dropping instead of the problem solving aspects that Alice attempts to present
<bimberi> crimsun: hmmk
<bimberi> crimsun: At first site I'm reminded of Squeak
<crimsun> squeak is nice
<crimsun> we use ultimate++
<crimsun> some of the first-semester students do 3 weeks of Alice then move on to ultimate++
<crimsun> we evaluated Alice for 2 years
* bimberi googles and notices a .deb :)
<LaserJock> argg, that reminds me
<LaserJock> I need to repackage squeak
<Burgundavia> have they solved the issue?
<LaserJock> which one?
<Burgundavia> the squeak licensing issue
<bimberi> argh - s/site/sight/
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: no, I don't think that'll ever resolved
<Burgundavia> ahh
<Burgundavia> isn't it just a font issue?
<Amaranth> edubuntugirl: Amaranth
<edubuntugirl> Amaranth: *blink*
<Amaranth> aww
<bimberi> edubuntugirl: sabdfl
<edubuntugirl> sabdfl is Mark Shuttleworth
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: I'm not exactly sure, but I think it has to do with it's Apple heritage
<Burgundavia> I believe so as well, but I am uncertain as to what parts are apsl2
<LaserJock> me neither
<LaserJock> but I think it'll always be in Multiverse
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<Lameiro> hi. I am planning to submit a SoC proposal for Coon, but I don't see any names for mentors in Ubuntu pages. All I see are 2 names in the Ubuntu Feature Specification website. they are "encompass" and "Pete Savage". do you know if they are planning to mentor that?
<Lameiro> or somebody else
<LaserJock> well, I don't think the mentor list is finalized at all
<LaserJock> Lameiro: what do you need?
<LaserJock> Lameiro: wb
<Lameiro> LaserJock: thank you. well, last msg i got was "well, I don't think the mentor list is finalized at all". did you say anybody else? damned isp, i am sorry
<Lameiro> *anything
<LaserJock> I just said:
<LaserJock> Lameiro: what do you need?
<Lameiro> a mentor name to put in the soc proposal
<LaserJock> I don't think you need one yet
<LaserJock> I don't know all the details of the SoC stuff
<Lameiro> well. ok. i thought i did... thank you
<LaserJock> but I'm pretty sure we don't even have a final list of mentors
<ajmitch> LaserJock: going to apply?
<LaserJock> for what?
<LaserJock> oh, I did apply for SoC mentorship
<LaserJock> but my application is "pending" so I need to poke Keybuk or doko
<ajmitch> ok
* ajmitch didn't think you'd have time to waste as a student
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> we'll see if we even need it
<ajmitch> though it'd just be your usual ubuntu time anyway :)
<LaserJock> it actually would have been more fun/profitable to actually do a project
<LaserJock> but I really don't have time for that
<ajmitch> yep
<LaserJock> hi cbx33
<cbx33> hey Lameiro
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> cbx33: I'm guessing you have some SoC email in you inbox ;-)
<cbx33> not this morning actually
<cbx33> but most days yes
<cbx33> ;)
<Lameiro> LaserJock: i didnt send it off.
<Lameiro> cbx33: I see. do that is gonna be a hard one... eheh
<cbx33> ???
<Lameiro> i am sending you one in a few hours...
<Lameiro> cbx33: i am applying for the Coon SoC project.
<Burgundavia> coon?
<cbx33> ahhh
<highvoltage> gooooood morning!
<Burgundavia> cbx33: had somebody by asking about the web front end to tcm
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage
<Burgundavia> hey highvoltage
<cbx33> awesome
<cbx33> yes someone mailed me about that too
<highvoltage> hey LaserJock, Burgundavia and cbx33
<cbx33> hey highvoltage
<cbx33> hi Burgundavia
<Lameiro> cbx33: can I assign you as the mentor for the SoC proposal?
<cbx33> did you get a chance to scan that chapter yet Burgundavia ?
<cbx33> Lameiro, well i suppose ;)
<cbx33> I am looking to mentor that project
<Burgundavia> nope
<cbx33> if it gets approved
* cbx33 shakes his fists
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> too busy playing Wesnoth eh?
<LaserJock> cbx33: he does have a life you know ;-)
<cbx33> Oh.....
<cbx33> sorry Burgundavia I thought you were like LaserJock and Me :p
<cbx33> ha ha !!
<Burgundavia> I even have a gf
<cbx33> what a 3-dimensional...real girlfriend?
<Burgundavia> today I sorted out the ubuntu sticker offer thingy
<Burgundavia> which has languished for 6 months
<Burgundavia> unlike you married bozos, I actually need to work to keep mine
<LaserJock> hah
<cbx33> hehe
<LaserJock> yes, marriage is no work at all
<cbx33> and she's into ubuntu sticker offers?
<LaserJock> lol
<cbx33> LaserJock, careful or I'll tell your good lady you said that ;)
<Burgundavia> no, she was helping me with them
<Burgundavia> and then we cleaned house
<cbx33> ahh good old house cleaning
<cbx33> *bah* i suck at that
<Burgundavia> so do I
<ajmitch> hey cbx33
<cbx33> I always get told off
<cbx33> hi ajmitch
<Burgundavia> however, I am very good at cleaning other peoples houses
<Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
<Burgundavia> Lameiro_: what did you mean by "coon"?
<cbx33> Burgundavia, it's the name Jason gave to his project proposal
<Burgundavia> ahh
<Burgundavia> what is the project
<cbx33> I was unaware of it's true meaning
<Burgundavia> ?
<cbx33> it's the gradebook idea
<Burgundavia> coon in North America can mean "racoon"
<Burgundavia> hence
<Burgundavia> 'coon hunting
<cbx33> for teachers to record students grades
<Burgundavia> doesn't schooltool do that?
<Burgundavia> ie: we don't need it
<cbx33> well......school tool are doing some pilot on it
<cbx33> but it's way off being finished
<cbx33> but yes you're right
<ajmitch> hello corey, what's up?
<Burgundavia> not much
<Burgundavia> about to head to bed
<Burgundavia> so this is just a basic program?
* cbx33 just found a great way to keep his googlemail inbox clean
<cbx33> Unread -> Delete
<ajmitch> haha
<cbx33> it's genius
<Burgundavia> wow
<ajmitch> a pity I can't do that with ubuntu mail
<ajmitch> people wouldn't like it if I deleted motu stuff from my inbox
* ajmitch could go & delete the 300K bug mails
<ajmitch> ---Mutt: =launchpad [Msgs:292583 New:219736 Flag:1 Post:6 Inc:21 1539M] ---(threads/date)
<ajmitch> 1.5GB of bugs
* ajmitch is a little behind on reading them
<cbx33> heheh
* cbx33 periodically does that
* ajmitch finds mutt can search bug mail faster than LP can at times
<Lameiro> cbx33: but, on the proposal it is suggested to use a mysql database. wouldnt it be more adequate to use a sqlite? (avoid deps)
<cbx33> suggest that then ;)
<Burgundavia> I would also build it in such a way that it could become a client to schooltool when that evolves
<ajmitch> Lameiro: proposals are often put up by random community members
<cbx33> yes
* ajmitch had better run off now, back in a couple of hours
<cbx33> see ya ajmitch
<Burgundavia> night all
<cbx33> nn Burgundavia
* cbx33 is off to make breakfast
<highvoltage> night Burgs
<michpol> hi all. i've try to install edubuntu 6.06.1 over network. all seems ok during installation (i've select generic install by pressing <enter> at 'boot:'), but when after all i  restart PC for first time, edubuntu load in console mode only - no gdm installed. why? somebody try do so?
<kigurai> Hi again
<sayan_> o/
<rockprincess> moin!
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi rockprincess :)
<rockprincess> heeey Kamping_Kaiser! Whats up? How are ya doing? :D
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, i'm going busy, yourself? i'm jsut rearanging my work room (got a new desk, have to pull out about 10 old world macs to fit it in)
<rockprincess> kamping_kaiser: i'm just about to put my book presentation together which is due tomorrow, and in about an hour i'll be leaving for school.....but good news is that i just got a notice from my assistant professor at uni that my dvds and case studies on educational foss have arrived :D
<rockprincess> will pick them up tomorrow :D
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, awsome stuff :D
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, i 'quit' doing ubuntu-edu and edubuntu stuff a month ago to go overseas - still havent gone :|
<Kamping_Kaiser> been busy as heck anyway though
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: overseas as going to the usa? will you pick up your (ed)ubuntu stuff once you've settled down?
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, no, going doing a network deployment in papua new guinea. 3 weeks there, 2 months getting ready :|
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: wow, that sounds exciting! you
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: you'll be missed here for sure ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> it is exciting/scary. i was meant to be getting back about now, i wont be going for another month!
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, awww :)
<rockprincess> has it been put back due to organizational matter?!
<Kamping_Kaiser> theres 5 organisations involved in getting it going, including a multinational - you imagine for yourself! :)
<rockprincess> wow, sounds like a big deal, huh?! :D
<rockprincess> what will be your tasks there?
<Kamping_Kaiser> get as far as i can through the todo list, including deploy 130 desktops, 20 laptops, do desktop training (10-20 hours)  on as many as posible, and server training (sigh hours) for 3 people
<Kamping_Kaiser> training desktop from the ground up is bad. training *the server admins* from scratch is going to be, shall we say, insane
<rockprincess> ohhh no ;) sounds like a challenge plus it's for a good cause, isn't it?! ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> i consider setting up foss in a hospital a good cause :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> its a challenge, but its on PNG time (ie 'it happens when it happens') , which wont help the todo list :|
<rockprincess> speaking of insane...my computer is insane, my computer clock goes fast-forward....it displays 14:36 whereas my watch says 14:00 ...
* Kamping_Kaiser hints ntpdate
<rockprincess> hehe, never heard of PNG time ;)
<rockprincess> ntpdate?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ntpdate ntp.adelaide.edu.au (ntpdate sets the time according to an ntp server)
<rockprincess> does it have a gui? i once tried "chrony" which is a similar command line tool.....
<Kamping_Kaiser> no, its cli
<Kamping_Kaiser> night rockprincess
<rockprincess> good night Kamping_Kaiser! Good Luck for your project!
<rockprincess> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, thanks, i'm sure i'll be in again before i go :)
<rockprincess> cool :)
<sbalneav> Monring all!
<sbalneav> Hey ogra!  How's it going?  Refreshed my ISO last night, and did a re-install, and the chroot build was OK
<sbalneav> ogra++
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav!
<bddebian> Heya folks
<cliebow_> ok on ppc as well
<highvoltage> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi highvoltage
<sbalneav> Hey highvoltage!
<sbalneav> So, I wonder what linux persona I am
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I see the site is back up :
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I think you're the afficionado guy
* highvoltage just downloaded a copy of the site just in case they take it off-line again
<sbalneav> Yeah, but the afficiondo guy only has 50% linux usage.
<sbalneav> I'm 100% :)
<ogra> sbalneav, yeah, beta looks good so far
<sbalneav> ogra!!
<sbalneav> I only have 1 minor problem, and I think I have a clue as to what it may be.
<sbalneav> It didn't set up the network interface.
<sbalneav> Now, on this box I have two interfaces
<sbalneav> eth0's a GOOD card, intel EE pro 100
<sbalneav> eth1's the crappy onboard VIA ethernet interface
<ogra> that shouldnt matter at all
<sbalneav> I use eth1 as the "primary"
<ogra> as dhcp client ?
<ogra> or static ?
<sbalneav> yes
<sbalneav> Should I statically define eth1?
<sbalneav> I was wondering if maybe the detection code was assuming eth0 was "primary" and looking for eth1 to be the unused one.
<sbalneav> Where, on the install cd, would I find the scripts that do that bit?  Or is that in the initramfs on the cd's kernel?
<cbx33> hey ogra, sbalneav
<ogra> do you get a message during install about the interface ?
<cbx33> seen linuxMCE?
<cbx33> that looks so cool
<cbx33> and based on ubuntu too
<ogra> or does it just not work after install ?
<ogra> sbalneav, the script is in the ltsp source. it's the postinst of ltsp-client-builder
<highvoltage> cbx33: wow, linuxmce looks cool
<cbx33> i know
<cbx33> sucks that the bandwidth has gone
<cbx33> I wanted to install that tonight
<cbx33> highvoltage: quite a small project by the looks of it too
<cbx33> just one guy working on it
<cliebow_> cbx33: i see an import for ltcm..but it doesnt seem available
<cliebow_> in scp
<sbalneav> ogra: No, didn't get a message about the interface
<ogra> aha
<ogra> can you check if the interface is up and running *before* you log in on the server ?
<ogra> seems we have a little problem with network manager hogging *all* interfaces
<cliebow_> network mangler..
<sbalneav> Before I log in?  That would be after install, right?
<sbalneav> So, it doesn't configure that interface on install?
<sbalneav> I'm using the server install cd, not the desktop cd, just to be clear
<ogra> it configures that interface on install
<ogra> it adds it to /etc/network/interfaces
<sbalneav> On mine, it didn't
<sbalneav> does network manager run on the server install cd? I didn't check
<ogra> and you didnt get any message from the installer about that ?
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> nada
<sbalneav> Nicht
<sbalneav> nein
<ogra> is your dhcp range something with 192.168.0 ?
<ogra> for the outbound interface i mean
<sbalneav> hehehe no!  I deliberately changed my entire home network to 10.0.0.x to rule that out.
<sbalneav> :)
<sbalneav> I ain't half so dumb as I look :)
<ogra> do you get both interfaces offered at the beginning ?
<ogra> and have to select one ?
<sbalneav> Yeah, got both at the beginning, and chose eth1
<ogra> hmm
<sbalneav> so eth0's the un-configured one.
<sbalneav> now, here's a question:
<maccam94> hi, i'm on my town's technology comittee, and one of the things we're deciding on is what operating system the school's computers should use for the next few years. we have 700 computers (P4 2Ghz, 256mb ram, hard disks) on an ethernet network, and one of the options I am considering presenting is a thick client ubuntu setup (OS/Apps on the clients, user data and configuration files on a network share). anyone know what sort of tools/settings would be
<maccam94> needed?
<sbalneav> is there a way to do an iftab thingy on install, to switch 'em around?  I'm wondering if it wants the active interface to be eth0 and the empty interface to be eth1
<ogra> it doesnt
<ogra> see the code
<sbalneav> I'll lookie.
<cliebow_> maccam94, your machines should run just fine..what tools would you want?
<maccam94> cliebow, i'm looking for what applications I can propose using to manage deployment, updates, and users, what sort of configuration needs to be done to get a networked /home directory, and how to be able to push changes to .conf files in /etc to all machines easily
<sbalneav> maccam94: ubuntu boxes are easy to update with the APT package system.  Users can all be handled through LDAP authentication (it's what we do), and networked home dirs are easy-peasy in any Linux.
<sbalneav> As for syncing config files, there's literally dozens to admin tools available, but simple's sometimes the best.  A quick bit of rsync will keep your boxes up to date config file wise.
<maccam94> sbalneav, are there any good GUI interfaces for setting up and managing LDAP, and do you know of any good howtos on creating a LDAP setup?
<sbalneav> There's a web based ldap manger for Linux out there, but I tend to use a gui app called gq.  It's basic, but it allows for full control over the ldap database.
<sbalneav> The real power of Linux, however, is in scripting.  Rather than sit and plunk through 1500 ldap updates one-at-a-time in a gui, with a quick bit of python programming, you can automate most tasks from jobs that will take hours, to literally seconds.
<Pitze> Hi! I'm currently installing edubuntu on my laptop.. Is anyone willing to help me with the partitioning? I'm not sure how to do it.
<sbalneav> Pitze: are you getting rid of windows?
<maccam94> Yeah, the scripting was one of the things that I think will make doing individual user authentication easier on the admin. (instead of manually creating 1500 users, just plunk a script down to translate a class listing).  the question is whether he'll learn the language...
<maccam94> anyhow
<Pitze> sbalneav:  nope, I have gentoo on it, but want to install edubuntu on one of my partitions
<Pitze> sbalneav: I have 4 partitions, one ext2 boot, one swap and 2 ext3.. where I have gentoo on sda3 and want to have ubuntu on sda4
<sbalneav> Ah, multi partition.  Well, you should just be able to select the partition you want on the install.
<Pitze> well how do I tell the installation to do it there.. I have some important stuff on the other partition :P I'll just format that part and not format the rest?
<maccam94> how much of a load on the network do you think LDAP would create?
<sbalneav> Pitze: I'd say so, usually it gives you that option.  You have, of course, a BACKUP of your machine, right?
<Pitze> nope :] 
<sbalneav> maccam94: Next to nothing.  LDAP doesn't generate that much
<Pitze> it's not worth money, but time :P
<sbalneav> Pitze: So, what you're saying is, you're time's worth nothing, right?
<sbalneav> :)
<Pitze> haha :P
* sbalneav things Pitze should stop now and make an rsync backup of his home and data dirs.
<sbalneav> s/things/thinks
<Pitze> but I guess if it says "no, keep existing data" it should be saved :P
<maccam94> ok, are there any downsides of LDAP that anyone can think of? i'm trying to figure out what the other people in the comittee would want to know...
<sbalneav> maccam94: As well, you can run a slave ldap server on each machine, which will keep almost all ldap traffic off the network.
<sbalneav> The only downside to ldap is that it's sometimes a bit of a bear to set up.  Once you've got it going, though, it works fine.
<sbalneav> And, you can always come here for help.  Several of us, myself included, use LDAP for auth.
<pips1> just a quick ping to say that I tried installing the daily 2007-03-20 and failed at the partitioning stage
<Pitze> sbalneav:  hmm.. I guess the "Install the base system" is where I choose which partition to install it to?
<Pitze> sbalneav: meaning when I push "Finish partitioning and write changes to disk" he (the install program) will only format those partitions I told him to? :P
<sbalneav> Like I say, stop and do a backup.
<sbalneav> I NEVER recommend installing to a disk that you don't have a backup for.
<Pitze> problem is that my gentoo kind of crashed when I did something, so I can't start gentoo anymore.. how can I do a backup? you said "rsync backup", meaning?
<Pitze> I could boot on a livecd and ssh it to a server..
<Pitze> scp it I meant
<Pitze> I can't burn a cd out of it, can I?
<Pitze> or I guess I could if I ran it through the live cd...
<rockprincess> the kids love ktouch :) wow
<rockprincess> hmm nobody here? :(
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<kigurai> I am
<rockprincess> cool ;)
<kigurai> Yeah, I guess so :)
<rockprincess> kigurai, what are you up to?
<kigurai> Mostly lurking awaiting the return of cbx33. Was talking to him before but I guess he had to run away
<rockprincess> kigurai: ahh i see, I'm waiting for cbx33 to arrive as well....
<kigurai> What a coincidence :)
<kigurai> Seems like a busy fellow ;)
<rockprincess> hehe indeed!
<rockprincess> hey juliux :)
<kigurai> rockprincess: Are you also a developer?
<juliux> hi rockprincess
<rockprincess> kigurai: hehe no, just a user :)
<kigurai> rockprincess: Ah, I see. A teacher then?
<rockprincess> kigurai: hehe not really, I'm just a computer science student doing my bachelor thesis based on educational software e.g edubuntu :) and you?
<kigurai> rockprincess: computer engineering student who is interested in the Google Summer of Code :)
<rockprincess> kigurai: ahhhhh are you dodo?
<kigurai> "dodo"?
<rockprincess> kigurai: ahh sorry messed it up "doko" but apparently not.......he told me about his idea for Google Summer of Code.....
<kigurai> Ah, ok. But no, I am not him :)
<rockprincess> kigurai: what do you want to do for GSoC?
<kigurai> I am interested in the web frontend to the thin client manager
<rockprincess> cool
<rockprincess> kigurai: i love this idea: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2007/teachers-gradebook
<kigurai> rockprincess: Actually that one was what I was interested in first. But cbx33 advised me to go for the web frontend instead
<kigurai> But yes, it sure sounds like a fun project :)
<kigurai> So, exactly what is your thesis about? And how's it going? :)
<rockprincess> kigurai: sorry, i was just unloading the dishwasher....
<kigurai> np
<rockprincess> kigurai: my bachelor thesis is about the usuage of educational free and open source software....basically about edubuntu in general, how the students are coping with it, what they like better, what they do not like about edubuntu....i've picked 3-4 apps that i'm now user-testing with my test-groups :)
<kigurai> So, it is some sort of usability testing then?
<rockprincess> yep, indeed!
<rockprincess> brb
<Laser_away> sbalneav: do a svn up yet?
<kigurai> Now off for some food, and then kendo practice :)
<sbalneav> Laser_away: hey, I did, but it's not the same as what I sent you, was it?
<sbalneav> I had "workstation.xml" and "server.xml", etc.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: it should be there
<LaserJock> sbalneav: btw, are you getting the trunk or feisty branch
<LaserJock> anybody know where RichEd is?
<LaserJock> ogra or ogra_ : would a dynamic menus GUI be worth a SoC project?
<sbalneav> ummm
<sbalneav> Maybe I'm getting trunk
<sbalneav> how do I got feisty? :)
<LaserJock> well, I added your stuff to trunk as well
<LaserJock> svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-doc
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/feisty ubuntu-doc-feisty
<sbalneav> Sheep?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you don't see your changes when you svn up?
<sbalneav> I'm checking out the feisty one now.
<sbalneav> Sooooo, who do I slip a $20 to to get write access to the svn server? :)
<LaserJock> make it a lunch in Spain and it's a deal
<LaserJock> ;-)
* sbalneav surrepticiously slips LaserJock a C note
<sbalneav> You were gonna get a dinner from me anyway :)
<sbalneav> Exciterated yet?
<sbalneav> yeah, it's in the feisty one.
<LaserJock> but not trunk?
<sbalneav> As of thismorning, nyet.
<LaserJock> oh heck, I know what I did
<LaserJock> I applied the diff
<LaserJock> but forgot to svn add the new files and svn rm the old ones
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ok, try now
<sbalneav> okiedokie, trying
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: LaserJock++
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: karma LaserJock
<edubuntugirl> sbalneav: LaserJock has karma of 4
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: karma sbalneav
<edubuntugirl> sbalneav: sbalneav has karma of 3
<sbalneav> LaserJock > sbalneav
<cliebow_> his fung-shwei aint so bad either..
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: karma ogra
<edubuntugirl> sbalneav: ogra has karma of 4
<sbalneav> That seems way too low
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: ogra++
<LaserJock> yeah, there's no way I have more karma than ogra
<LaserJock> sbalneav: have any SoC ideas for Edubuntu?
<LaserJock> something light and fluffy that the SoC kiddies would enjoy?
<Burgwork> sbalneav: the person you need to talk to is mdke
<LaserJock> Burgwork: I've already pinged him
<cliebow_> edubuntugirl: karma cliebow
<edubuntugirl> cliebow_: cliebow has neutral karma
<Burgwork> saw that
<cliebow_> at least it is not negative
<LaserJock> Burgwork: don't make me lose my free lunch ;-)
<Burgwork> oh, right
<Burgwork> sbalneav: I will do it for the price of a coffee :)
<LaserJock> doh
<sbalneav> Hmmm, an SOC project.....
<sbalneav> You know what we need MORE THAN FLIPPING ANYTHING?!?!
<sbalneav> is to get the graphical gnome user and group manager LDAP aware.
<sbalneav> Solving the other LDAP problems are fairly easy: we just need to turn the crank
<LaserJock> I'm interested in that, from the dynamic menus standpoint
<sbalneav> however, once you HAVE ldap, there's no "good" way to manage it simply
<LaserJock> so could that be done sort of independently of ldap?
<sbalneav> Apart from GQ, which, although workable, is hardly a beginners tool.
<sbalneav> It could be, I suspect, here's why
<sbalneav> If the app is re-written to use the actual getpwent() and getgrent() libc calls
<sbalneav> rather than actually LOOKING AT THE /etc/passwd AND /etc/group FILES (Thats SO 1980's)...
<sbalneav> then, with a properly functioning LDAP setup, you could manage it right from the simple user-and-group manager.
<sbalneav> this == win for new admins.
<LaserJock> so that'd be more of a Gnome project right? we wouldn't need to make it Edubuntu specific?
<sbalneav> Well, technically more of a Gnome project, I guess, but it could show up first in Edubuntu as patches to the user manager
<LaserJock> yeah
<sbalneav> I've got this fellow Sayan who wants to do a math-test generator for school age kids, that'd be pretty cherry.
<LaserJock> although I don't really see the Gnome user-and-group tool as being very nice for large numbers of users
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I'm sending in a mentorship application and Keybuk wanted projects I'd be interested in mentoring and if I had any new ideas
<sbalneav> That's my next project for SOC for you
<sbalneav> bulk user addition deletion
<sbalneav> Text file with:
<sbalneav> ADD firstname lastname
<LaserJock> I was thinking I could put dynamic menus on there
<sbalneav> DELETE firstname lastname
<sbalneav> Dynmenus would be a good one.
<sbalneav> so theres 3 idears right there.
<LaserJock> I was thinking of a graphical theme switcher for Edubuntu
<sbalneav> Here's another one that would be a huge win:  although it's complicated.
<LaserJock> where you can easily switch betwen young, plain, and old or whatever they're called these days
<Burgwork> sbalneav: making the gnome user thing ldap aware is on the gnome soc list, because I pu ti there
<LaserJock> ah excellent
<Burgwork> another cool idea would be to do a basic interface for very young children
<sbalneav> Now that java's open source, replace the crack-induced sound calls writing to /dev/dsp with proper gstreamer calls, and bundle a fixed up java engine with edubuntu that will run java based kids games over thin client WITH sound, right out of the box.
<Burgwork> basically a pygtk interface with big buttons
<Burgwork> I believe pulse audio is the way to go for that
<sbalneav> sure, but it's still a shim
<sbalneav> we have to emulate a soundcard locally, as opposed to proper gstreamer calls.
<Burgwork> well, I don't know there is a better way
<LaserJock> Burgwork: keybuk asked me what kind of outside projects I'd be interested in. Do you have any idea what he means by that?
<sbalneav> here's a good one: port the OLPC sexy desktop to edubuntu.
<Burgwork> sugar?
<Burgwork> LaserJock: "outside" projects?
<Burgwork> I have no idea
<Burgwork> I wonder if they are fishing to hire you
<sbalneav> is that what it's called?
<LaserJock> I wondered if he meant outside Ubuntu or what
<LaserJock> Burgwork: hire me? I'm just volunteering to mentor SoC
<Burgwork> yes, the interface is called sugar
<Burgwork> you are a good MOTU manager, I would hire you
<LaserJock> well, I keep saying I'm a chemist not a distro developer
<LaserJock> but I seem to be getting further in Ubuntu than I am in Chemistry :/
<Burgwork> if you love something, do it
<Burgwork> sbalneav: how good is your perl knowledge?
<sbalneav> Burgwork: Minimal at best.  I'm more fluent in python.
<sbalneav> But C's what I do best.
<Burgwork> right
<Burgwork> because,afaik, the backend for the gnome tools is perl
<LaserJock> it is?
<Burgwork> the gnome-system-tools
<LaserJock> Burgwork: "another cool idea would be to do a basic interface for very young children"
<LaserJock> what do you mean by that?
<Burgwork> some sort of a complete interface for young children
<Burgwork> basically a full screen app that can launch a few other apps
<LaserJock> mhm
<Burgwork> replacing the whoel desktop/panel, etc.
<Burgwork> http://system-tools-backends.freedesktop.org/faq.html <-- LaserJock
<LaserJock> hmm, squeak is kinda like that
<LaserJock> or full screen gcompris
<LaserJock> Burgwork: perhaps that's why ogra wanted to rewrite the user-and-group manager
<LaserJock> or at least something like that
<Burgwork> basically
<Burgwork> however, another set of distro specific tools is not what we need
<LaserJock> no, but sometimes it's easier to start in the distro and move back upstream
<cliebow_> we're dying here for programs that do the same work as lexia..read180...plato..im losing "market share" for my terminals every day cause good 6-12 remedial stuff isnt available
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I really think we need more good-quality educational apps
<LaserJock> but it seems nobody wants to work on that much :(
<cliebow_> like "what he said"
<LaserJock> we had a couple of SoC projects last year for edu apps
<cliebow_> lexia promised me thet were working on a linux versdion..it already works in Macosx
<LaserJock> but I don't know if they got much of anywere
<cliebow_> but nothing has happened
<cliebow_> SoC?>
<LaserJock> Google Summer of Code
<cliebow_> Than you!
<LaserJock> I think we have a definate lack of reading programs
<LaserJock> cliebow_: what kinds of apps are most needed for you?
<LaserJock> seems like reading apps are kinda hard to find
<sbalneav> cliebow_ needs a typing tutor :)
<LaserJock> or maybe I'm not looking in the right places
<LaserJock> I think we have one of those
<LaserJock> ;-)
<cliebow_> cliebow himself needs one..
<sbalneav> That's what I meant.
<sbalneav> :)
<cliebow_> let me get back to you..ill grab the read180 teacher...
<cliebow_> well..ill ask her kindly for input i mean  ^_^
<cliebow_> later...
<kigurai> Hello...
<Burgwork> crap, missed sbalneav
<cbx33> hey Burgwork
<Burgwork> hey cbx33
<ajmitch> hi
<mattva01> quick question, has anyone here ever used apt-mirror to create a ubuntu mirror?
* Kamping_Kaiser no
#edubuntu 2007-03-23
<LaserJock> Burgwork: have you seen this "get LTSP into Fedora" project?
<cliebow> url?
<Burgwork> LaserJock: nope, linky?
<Burgwork> I know RH engineers were interested in LTSP, although Novell rebuffed them
<LaserJock> I actually only have a mailing list
<LaserJock> I was trolling through gmane and found it
<LaserJock> the email says they hope to replace K12LTSP
<LaserJock> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.education
<cliebow> id guess they'd want Eric   Harrison  on their side..
<LaserJock> "Eric Harrison has already did lots of the hacking to get 5.0 working on
<LaserJock> Fedora, but does not seem to have time to attempt integration of that in
<LaserJock> Fedora or ask for help from other Fedora contributors.  That would be a
<LaserJock> good place to start if someone wants to help."
<Burgwork> cool
<LaserJock> bah, sorry for the flood
<Burgwork> I saw that mailing list a few days ago, but it was dead
<cliebow> jim kronebusch is an old ltsp guy..
<cliebow> i workeds with him showing him how to do ppc..
<cliebow> warren needs no  introduction
<Burgwork> I think RH is minorly concerned about being beaten to the punch in education by Edubuntu
<cliebow> eric had an imple,entaion in san francisco in Nov  but  his lappoie crappolad
<LaserJock> :(
<cliebow> aat  the ltsp meet  ogra attended
<LaserJock> yeah, I was at Mt. View and meet Eric
<LaserJock> *met
<bimberi> Novell have released a thin client SUSE recently as well
<cliebow> good...great  people..helped  me a lot with ldap
<bimberi> http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=novell+%22thin+client%22&btnG=Search
<bimberi> Interesting quote from one article: "Dedicated thin-client hardware is growing at 20 percent year on year compared with commercial desktop growth of two percent."
<cliebow> and my ltsp implementation is losing out with the ibooks in Maine  schools..
<Kamping_Kaiser> thin client usage is a cycle, atm its getting trendy again
<cliebow> so instead  of  tending one server..im   ripping apart   individual machines again..
<cliebow> if  i  never  see another  ibook....
<MrWizard14> what's wrong with it?
<Kamping_Kaiser> did anyone look at that ltsp setup that was emailed to the list by that spanish(?) bloke? i'm wondering if it was interesting
<MrWizard14> mine just almost died
<cliebow> ibook??
<cliebow> hey DAvid
<dtrask> hey chuck!
<dtrask> I have too many windows open....which room is this?  Edubuntu?
<dtrask> LOL
<cliebow> yuou got it\! what's neew?
<dtrask> Chuck...I had a great moment today...Firefox has been giving me fits lately...slow to load...etc.....so I updated to firefox 2.03 from source today....AND got Flash 9 with sound working
<dtrask> took several symlinks, but it works beautifully now  ;-)
<cliebow> cool!  ive  seen some  crashes..but  not  on my server machine
<cliebow> you  usung  ubuntu for server??
<dtrask> for some reason I did a repository update to 1.5.10 and it was taking over a minute to load...of course the kids would click repeatedly trying to get it going
<cliebow> sure
<dtrask> not this one....this one was FC 5
<dtrask> K12LTSP
<cliebow> right..
<cliebow> i   have   two  schools in ubnut..no three
<cliebow> heh
<dtrask> I have an Edubuntu server up and running....I'm thinking about migrating totally during April vacation
<cliebow> but   only one in  ltsp
<dtrask> Are you running Edubuntu LTSP or simply LTSP the standard way on top of it?
<cliebow> i  havnt proven  the localdev side iin ubuntu yet..i did  build a ppc chroot  for feisty  yesterday
<cliebow> i have only 4.2 in ubuntu in prodication
<cliebow> produc tion
<cliebow> so my lappie will boot  either pc or ppc clients
<cliebow> havnt yety got it to differentiate  between ppc clients and i386  as far as root-path though
<cliebow> filename is pretty easy..
<cliebow> load times are still relatively sdlow..but  yesterdays update should make sound work out of the box
<dtrask> hang on
<dtrask> I actually got Feisty running on an iBook (one of the MLTI ones....don't tell on me)....finally after much head banging I got the wireless working
<cliebow> i find wireless fluky on ibooks...seems totake  a reboot to recognize new parameters
<dtrask> amen....sucks
<cliebow> we  had one g4 wouldnt take a rid image..im runing feisty on it to build chroot..so i cana put it on my i386 lappie
<dtrask> they're broadcom....I had to do some homework and find the new firmware
<cliebow> yeah  fwcutter
<dtrask> yeah....but I think I used the directions and files from cafuego
<dtrask> works..
<dtrask> that's what matters
<cliebow> you have your  ound one  mlti iboks?   buy them out..?video  is crapping out fight and left
<dtrask> we sold them to the kids
<cliebow> i did face transpalnts  on three today..
<dtrask> they bought them all
<dtrask> we had a waiting list
<cliebow> weh  ave cardts and  carts of them..back to fixing indiviuaal machines again
<dtrask> I didn't want to deal with them....we have plenty of machines here in school so having a cart would have been more hassle than help
<cliebow> imlosing ground  on the ltsp side..wireless  is what they want
<cliebow> they  Never bought any proper terminals..and the donated  ones are biting the dust one by one
<dtrask> I think wireless LTSP is coming soon...even if we have to boot the machine some other method (locally)....
<cliebow> i used it years ago..before 80211g..it  was pokey
<dtrask> we bought terminals....and now the $120 ones everyone is talking about may be my next purchase
<dtrask> yeah...I need to revist with 802.11g...or even "n" once it comes out as a standard
<cliebow> did you hack  the provided mac minis so you can actually do something with em?..even  thnough you are not supposed to?
<dtrask> supposedly the current Airport Express cards could become "n" with a simple FW upgrade
<dtrask> nah....don't need it for anything....heck...don't even use my XServe
<dtrask> seriously....I haven't even turned it on this year
<dtrask> I'm a bit top heavy on servers  ;-)
<cliebow> just ticks me off you cant  have any  admin  rights on em..one day ill tackle one..
<cliebow> you know  how i feel about proprietary stuff..
<cliebow> getting a ite to eat..
<cliebow> s/ite/bite
<dtrask> I do....I just sometimes don't bother...that's all
<dtrask> I hardly even use the thing....I just use an eMac for pushing tasks out.  I have to admit that I like the ability to push Unix commands via ARD thought
<dtrask> though
<dtrask> makes life much easier
<dtrask> wrote a script to fire up NWEA all at once
<dtrask> Ogra...you awake?
<dtrask> gtg....time to leave this place and head home....catch ya'll alter
<dtrask> later
<nkayhan> Hi, I'm trying to set up a few ubuntu boxes to connect to a windows server/network in a school, it there a good resource to find this?
<Burgundavia> nkayhan: connect in what manner
<Burgundavia> ?
<rollerce> good evening everyone
<Burgundavia> hello rollerce
<nkayhan> Burgundavia: in the manner that ubuntu would boot to the login screen, and then I could login to the windows domain form there, and see NAS and NAP
<Burgundavia> right
<rollerce> So I downloaded edubuntu today, and I am a complete linux dunce (as in this is the first time I've ever done anything with linux), and I was wondering if I could get some help locating and downloading drivers for my devices
<Burgundavia> rollerce: linux drivers are built into Edubuntu
<Burgundavia> nkayhan: for auth, you need samba 3.0.24 or later
<rollerce> not apparently for my graphics card of wireless card
<Burgundavia> against AD, I assume?
<rollerce> or^
<Burgundavia> rollerce: which graphics card?
<nkayhan> Burgundavia: on the windows server?
<Burgundavia> nkayhan: no, on the client
<Burgundavia> and which wireless card?
<nkayhan> Burgundavia: Good, is there a guide somewhere?
<rollerce> hang on a sec....*rummage8
<Burgundavia> http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/HOWTO:_Configure_Ubuntu_for_Active_Directory_Authentication
<Burgundavia> yes, Novell has one :)_
<nkayhan> Burgundavia:  YES, thank you, I might be able to convert a classroom to a ubuntu, instead of win98
<Burgundavia> nkayhan: it is not easy and will take a bunch of hacking
<Burgundavia> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ActiveDirectoryHowto
<Burgundavia> try also that
<nkayhan> Burgundavia:  By "Hacking" do you mean command line stuff and work arounds, or illegal stuff?
<Burgundavia> nkayhan: command line stuff
<Burgundavia> illegal stuff is known as "cracking"
<rollerce> Dell Wireless 1390 minicard
<nkayhan> rollerce:  I have that same card!
<rollerce> and ATI mobility radeon x1300
<rollerce> I have an Inspiron 6400 laptop if that helps
<nkayhan> rollerce:  which version of ubuntu are you running?
<rollerce> latest of edubuntu
<rollerce> 6.10, I believe?
<Burgundavia> for the ati card, you need https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI?highlight=%28binary%29
<Burgundavia> can you open a terminal and type the following: lspci | grep Broadcom
<rollerce> open up a what and do who?
<rollerce> o.o'
<nkayhan> rollerce:  Now, ubuntu doesn't make any hardware really, so your card is actually made by Broadcom
<rollerce> ok..
<nkayhan> rollerce:  Now, *DELL doesn't make any hardware really, so your card is actually made by Broadcom
<nkayhan> sorry, I did a super typo
<Burgundavia> that lists all teh hardware connected to the pci bus and then searches it for the string called Broadcom
<rollerce> ok, how do I open a terminal first off
<rollerce> remember, total linux dunce here.
<rollerce> baby steps for me
<Burgundavia> applications > accessories > terminal
<nkayhan> rollerce:  start menu accesorys
<rollerce> and what is the command?
<Burgundavia> lspci | grep Broadcom
<rollerce> is that an l or a | *lol*
<Burgundavia> the second is a |, not an L
<Burgundavia> l vs |
<rollerce> the first is an L though?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> lowercase
<nkayhan> rollerce:  That card (wireless) was automatic for me, are you sure you just don't need a wireless manager?
<Burgundavia> sorry got to go
<rollerce> nothing happens when I tyoe that
<rollerce> gah, nuu don't leave!!! *pout*
<nkayhan> Butgundavia: c ya thanks for help
<nkayhan> rollerce: copy and paste
<rollerce> I can't
<rollerce> this is a different computer than the one I have edubuntu on
<nkayhan> rollerce: you'll need to right click and not ctl v
<nkayhan> Oh
<rollerce> :-p
<nkayhan>  sorry
<nkayhan> by nothing does it say bash?
<rollerce> but yah, the lspci | grep broadcom doesn't do anything
<rollerce> I don't even get a bsh
<nkayhan> just black?
<rollerce> not even black, just retypes the "rollerce@edubuntu:~$"
<nkayhan> oh good, that mean's that's not your card, try just lspci
<rollerce> I have an unknown broadcom device
<nkayhan> no numbers after broadcom?
<rollerce> 0b:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation Unknown Device 4311 (rev01)
<rollerce> and
<nkayhan> try joining #ubuntu btw, there's a lot more people there to help you
<rollerce> 01:00.0 VGA comptable controller: ATI Technologirs Inc Unknown Device 7149
<nkayhan> OK, so yes, you definatly need drivers
<rollerce> yup
<rollerce> that's what i figured
<nkayhan> give me a second ok?
<rollerce> okii
<nkayhan> Broadcom 4311 is your chip
<Burgundavia> hmm, no rollerce
<nkayhan> Burgundavia: Shame I haad just found the solution to his problem
<Burgundavia> broacom needs the firmware
<Burgundavia> pretty easy to do
<nkayhan> well, he needed the driver too, it was an unknow card
<nixternal> 4311 uses ndiswrapper still
<nixternal> fwcutter is garbage with it
<Burgundavia> does it
<Burgundavia> ahh
<Burgundavia> rollerce: welcome back
<rollerce> i;m back now?
<rollerce> for real?
<Burgundavia> yep
<rollerce> ^.^
<Burgundavia> btw, where in BC are you?
<rollerce> had some connection issues for a minuye
<rollerce> i;m in burnaby
<Burgundavia> ahh
<nixternal> Burgundavia: it is the same card I have
<Burgundavia> there is a pretty active Linux Users Group (LUG) in Vancouver
<Burgundavia> nixternal: ah
<nixternal> fwcutter will not work with it, and bcm43xx.berlios.de confirms that as well
<rollerce> i thought you had to leave burgun
<Burgundavia> I am back
<nkayhan> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Device/Broadcom_BCM4311_rev_01_%28ndiswrapper%29?highlight=%28WifiDocs%2FDevice%29#head-f81347abfd1a9542276e210460e6ecd5fb49fd1a
<nixternal> after I installed Feisty though, it says my card is a Dell card
<nixternal> http://wiki.waningsun.net/index.php?title=Dell_E1405_%26_Linux_HOWTO
<nixternal> ^^ that is the best howto for the 4311
<nixternal> guaranteed to work or your money back
<nixternal> :)
<nkayhan> nixternal: my bad
<nixternal> hrm, it seems there is some lovin' on the wiki for the 4311, I don't remember that
<nixternal> I will have to check that out
<nixternal> actually nkayhan your link is pretty much the same, just w/o all of the glitter :)
<rollerce> now to see if I can actually do it
<nixternal> I like the brief summary
<rollerce> *lol*
<nixternal> rollerce: eth1 is probably the port for your wifi card, if you get wlan0, consider yourself lucky, even though that doesn't matter a lick
<nkayhan> nixternal: I can use google, you actually did this, so I defer to you
<nixternal> hehe, Google has answered all but one of my questions
<nixternal> that is pretty much how it is anyways
<rollerce> how do I check that?
<nixternal> iwconfig
<nixternal> does it say eth1 or wlanX
<nkayhan> nixternal: is wifi radar a good manager?
<nixternal> I haven't messed with it much, I am a KNetworkManager freak
<rollerce> ok...
<rollerce> *confizz*
<nixternal> Broadcom Corporation Dell Wireless 1390 WLAN Mini-PCI Card (rev 01)
<rollerce> eth 1 says everything is the wireless card
<nixternal> that is what my card says now. and I have a compaq
<nkayhan> nixternal: I'm getting tired of typing in ssid
<nixternal> nkayhan: I don't have to type it in at all with KNetworkManager,and I am sure NetworkManager is the same
<rollerce> but I can't select it in the network connections thing
<rollerce> I probably have to do the driver thing.
<nkayhan> nixternal: I'm using KNetworkManager, but it doesn't list ssids in your area does it?
<nixternal> it does for me
<nkayhan> ???
<nixternal> actually my area is dead right now, usually I get about 5 of them
<rollerce> afkih for a minute while I mess with this
<nixternal> if I am upstairs I can get about 10
<nkayhan> Like does it list on the right click of the icon?
<nixternal> yup
<nkayhan> I KNOW there's like 3 in my area, but I need to type in the ssid to login to one of them
<nixternal> and if they are secured, it even shows a neat little lock
<nixternal> well, if they are hidden, you might have to enter the info for the first go round, and then it should remember it from that point on
<nkayhan> nixternal: yea, it does that, but their NOT hidden (their unsecured neighbor's actually)
<nixternal> hrmm
<nkayhan> I had to log into windows to see the essid
<nkayhan> then type it in
<nixternal> I see my neighbors when I am upstairs, usually I see it now, but I am not
<nixternal> bbiab. the dog is calling me :)
<rollerce> ack
<rollerce> how do I make it so I have root access?
<bimberi> !sudo
<ubotu> sudo is a command to run programs with superuser privileges ("root"). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for all information.
<rollerce> but I need to change the permissions on a file so it's not read-only...
<bimberi> rollerce: what's the file?
<rollerce> the blacklist file in /etc/modprobe.d
<bimberi> leave the permissions alone, just edit it with sudo at the start of the command
<rollerce> i can't do that from the editor in ubuntu
<bimberi> no, you need to start the editor itself as superuser
<rollerce> how
<bimberi> open a terminal, then 'gksu gedit /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist'
<rollerce> this is my first time using linux so you'l have to be pretty specific
<bimberi> terminal is at Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal
<nkayhan> brb
<bimberi> rollerce: welcome aboard btw :)
<rollerce> thx
<rollerce> edubuntu is pretty ^.^
<bimberi> too right :)
<rollerce> aaaand i;m stuck now
<rollerce> so i'm at "http://wiki.waningsun.net/index.php?title=Dell_E1405_%26_Linux_HOWTO"
<rollerce> at download and compile ndiswrapper....and I'm getting errors.
<bimberi> many lines of errors?
<rollerce> when I do "sudo apt-get install linux-headers-'uname -r'
<rollerce> I get "e: couldn't find package linux-headers-uname -r
<bimberi> ahh, not ' but `  (backticks, in both cases)
<rollerce> ahhh
<rollerce> now it's
<rollerce> I get "e: couldn't find package linux-headers-2.6.17-10-386
<rollerce> >.<
<bimberi> hmm
<rollerce> does this step require internet access?
<bimberi> that would help, but I'm fairly sure the headers are on the CD as well
<rollerce> which means I should put the cd in the drive *lol*
<rollerce> if I had internet I wouldn't be having to do all this :-P
<bimberi> :/
<rollerce> am I here?
<bimberi> rollerce: wb :)
<rollerce> well, after putting in the cd, I get the same error
<bimberi> is the cd still in?
<rollerce> yup
<bimberi> ok, System -> Administratoin -> Synaptic Package Manager
<rollerce> okii, done
<bimberi> once that's open select "Add CDROM" from the Edit menu
<rollerce> cd spun up
<rollerce> progress bar...
<rollerce> asked me if I want to add another cdrom, I assume no
<rollerce> now what?
<bimberi> ok, close synaptic
<bimberi> retry the apt-get
<rollerce> ok
<rollerce> still no good
<bimberi> :/
<bimberi> hmmm
<bimberi> this is a fresh install?
<rollerce> yup
<rollerce> as of about 2 hours ago
<nkayhan> yea, wirelesscard setup!
<rollerce> :-p
<bimberi> hm
<nkayhan> rollerce: how're you doing?
<rollerce> totally stuck about a paragraph into the walkthrough
<rollerce> *lol*
<bimberi> ok, go to Places -> Computer
<rollerce> ok
<nkayhan> rollerce: man I'm sorry, linux gets way better after initial setup
<bimberi> open up the cd and navigate to pool/mail/l
<rollerce> there is no pool directory
<bimberi> hm, which cd is this?
<rollerce> wait
<rollerce> nm
<rollerce> was in the wrong place
<rollerce> ok, i;m in the L directory
<bimberi> now linux-kernel-headers and double-click on the file in there (should be only one)
<bimberi> hopefully it will be installable
<rollerce> i have linux-atm, linux-meta, linux-ntfs, linux-source-2.6.17, and linux-wlan-ng
<rollerce> no linux-kernel-headers
<bimberi> ah, try linux-source...
<rollerce> gazillion files in there.
<rollerce> ok, not a gazillion, but a heck of alot.
<bimberi> :)
<bimberi> look for linux-headers...
<rollerce> anything specific I hould look for?
<bimberi> (might be a few)
<rollerce> linux-image and linux-libc
<bimberi> was this a Live CD? or Install CD?
<rollerce> install cd
<bimberi> *is
<bimberi> k
<rollerce> downloaded it right off of the site today
<rollerce> i'm 90% certain at least it's an install cd.
<rollerce> how do I tell
<bimberi> when you installed, was it a text interface or a gui?
<rollerce> gui
<bimberi> hm, install cd isn't gui as far as i recall
<bimberi> anyway, plan b. do you have a way of transferring files to the PC?
<bimberi> usb key?
<rollerce> http://www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/ubuntu-releases/edubuntu/edgy/edubuntu-6.10-install-i386.iso
<rollerce> that's the one i downloaded
<rollerce> and yah, I have a us key
<rollerce> usb^
<bimberi> righto
<bimberi> what is the output of 'uname -r' (in the terminal)
<bimberi> ?
<rollerce> 2.6.17-10-386
<bimberi> ok, i'll get some links for you
<rollerce> oki
<rollerce> thanks for all the help
<bimberi> np, once you have network things get much easer :)
<bimberi> ok
<rollerce> yah
<bimberi> two files to download and transfer to the pc:
<bimberi> http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.17/linux-headers-2.6.17-10_2.6.17.1-10.34_i386.deb
<bimberi> http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.17/linux-headers-2.6.17-10-386_2.6.17.1-10.34_i386.deb
<rollerce> oki downloading
<rollerce> i assume put them on the key
<rollerce> and put them on the ubuntu desktop?
<bimberi> yep, when you plug it into the PC, Edubuntu should open a window and you can double-click on them to install
<bimberi> install the one *without* 386 in the name first
<rollerce> -.-
<rollerce> too late...
<rollerce> oh
<rollerce> nm
<rollerce> oki., theyre installed
<rollerce> try the command again>?
<bimberi> great, that puts you past that step on that page :)
<rollerce> huh?
<rollerce> o.o'
<rollerce> so now what step do I go to?
<rollerce> o.o'
<bimberi> "tar -xzvf ndiswrapper-1.27.tar.gz"  ??
<rollerce> cannot open: no such file or directory
<rollerce> this guy seems to assume I've got a bunch of thins that I don't...
<bimberi> yes, you'll need to download and transfer that file as well
<rollerce> ah
<bimberi> at the same time, does this work? 'sudo apt-get install build-essential' ?
<bimberi> that will install things necessary to do the commands beginning with 'make' further on on that page
<rollerce> eep
<rollerce> bunch of linuxese and asks me if I wanna continue
<bimberi> lol
<rollerce> ok, the walkthrough calls for 1.27 but they're at 1.38 which chould I use?
<bimberi> i would hope a later version would do everything an earlier version could
<rollerce> i'll try 1.38 then
<rollerce> butdownload 1.27 JIC
<bimberi> :)
<rollerce> so where should I put the file this time?
<rollerce> i;m sorry I;m such a noob
<bimberi> drag it to your home folder (which is hopefully at the top of the list of Places on the left of the file manager)
<rollerce> drug
<bimberi> ha
<bimberi> now try that tar... command (with 1.38 instead of 1.27)
<rollerce> egads
<rollerce> bunch of stuff then back to command prompt
<bimberi> cool, now the cd (again with the new version)
<rollerce> yup, working so far
<bimberi> ok, keep going
<rollerce> ok.he skipped over the part where I get the .inf out of the .exe...
<bimberi> ah, i've not done that myself, hopefully there are instructions about
<rollerce> i figured it out.
<rollerce> mde a wild gues that the .exe was a self extracting compressed file.
<rollerce> which it was, then grabbed the file I needed
<bimberi> cool
* rollerce facepalms *
<rollerce> what does he mean by "Then I added ndiswrapper to /etc/modules."
<rollerce> does he mean move the ndiswrapper directory into tere?
<bimberi> no
<bimberi> 'gksu gedit /etc/modules'
<bimberi> and add "ndiswrapper" on a new line
<bimberi> that page really does assume a lot
<rollerce> >.<
<rollerce> now I can't get it to connect to my wireless
<rollerce> you there?
<bimberi> yeah, what did you try?
<rollerce> well, when I click on the little thing in the upper right, all I get is "lo"
<rollerce> and the iwlist eth0 scan doesn't show my network but the neighbour's instead.
<bimberi> try configuring via System -> Administration -> Networking
<rollerce> oh wait...
<rollerce> I think i;m dumb...
<rollerce> well, I know I;m dumb...as far as linux goes
<bimberi> perhaps, but you seem patient and willing to learn - perfect customer :)
<rollerce> well, i've activated the ethernet card...but it still doesn't show in connection properties
<rollerce> do I need some sort of wireless manager?
<bimberi> i would have thought you had enough to get connected now.
<rollerce> me too
<bimberi> perhaps try temporarily removing any security from your access point to see if that helps
<rollerce> no internet though
<bimberi> or manually typing in the SSID ...
<rollerce> yah...I just tried that
<rollerce> it shows, but says disconnected
<rollerce> no luck
<rollerce> disable encryption
<rollerce> and it doesn't see my network
<bimberi> hm, what device did you say the wireless is on? eth0?
<rollerce> I can't even get into a utility to scan my networks.
<rollerce> eth 1
<bimberi> i'm looking at this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Device/Broadcom_BCM4311_rev_01_%28ndiswrapper%29
<bimberi> it includes this: "Critical Notice: Check the file /etc/modprobe.d/ndiswrapper file and make sure that the ndiswrapper alias is wlan0 an not something else such as eth1.
<rollerce> >.<
<rollerce> how do I fix that?
<bimberi> gksu gedit /etc/modprobe.d/ndiswrapper
<bimberi> make the change and reboot the pc
<rollerce> it says alias wlan0 ndiswrapper....
<bimberi> heh
<rollerce> but....
<rollerce> it doesn't work..
<rollerce> how can I force it to?
<bimberi> what's the output of 'cat /etc/iftab'?
<bimberi> just the first bits (eg. eth0, wlan0) ?
<rollerce> uhm...
<rollerce> cat: /etc/iftab/: not a directory
<bimberi> no trailing /
<bimberi> just /etc/iftab
<rollerce> eth0 mac (blahblahblah)
<rollerce> eth1 mac (blahblahblah)
<bimberi> ok, 'gksu gedit /etc/iftab', comment out the eth1 line (with a # at the start) and reboot
<rollerce> rebooting
<bimberi> once it's back up, make sure ndiswrapper has loaded by doing 'lsmod | grep ndiswrapper' in a terminal.  If there is no output, the module hasn't loaded
<rollerce> it loaded
<bimberi> cool
<bimberi> hopefully 'iwconfig' is listing network(s) against wlan0 now
<bimberi> (or 'iwlist scan')
<rollerce> hmm
<rollerce> still won't connect
<bimberi> :(
<bimberi> unfortunately I'm out of ideas at this point
<rollerce> gah
<rollerce> it's assigned to the wrong mac address.
<rollerce> it's assigned to the wrong mac address.
<rollerce> i'm gonna try something...
<bimberi> I have to go unfortunately, you can try editing /etc/iftab to make sure it has the correct mac addresses for the interfaces
<rollerce> that's what i'm trying
<bimberi> you could try asking in #ubuntu too (lots of pehple in there)
<bimberi> cool
<bimberi> bye for now, good luck
<rollerce> they basically ignored me;
<bimberi> yes, it can depend on who's active when you ask
<narutosan> may I get some information on Teacher Grading System which is there on the GSoc ubuntu ideas list
<LaserJock> what kind of information?
<narutosan> what languages should I use to build?
<narutosan> the only thing mentioned is python GTK
<LaserJock> well, I don't think there is an absolute requirement
<LaserJock> but Edubuntu is a Gnome desktop
<LaserJock> and python is a nice easy language and a favorite of a lot of Ubuntu devs
<narutosan> I wanted to add some features
<narutosan> say it should have an online assignment submission system too
<narutosan> where in the students are allowed to submit assignments and are evaluated and are graded
<narutosan> it should come as a whole package
<LaserJock> sounds interesting
<narutosan> it should not only be a system where only theoretical oriented assignments are submitted but code based assignments should also be accepted
<narutosan> some of the assignments like code based should be evaluated automatically
<narutosan> hence forth making the application not restricted to the schools but also to universities to be able to use the module
<narutosan> c/application/module
<narutosan> there are some codes which universities to work with like mine is doing but it has flaws as it is not stable
<narutosan> that is because the module comes coded in perl but comes as a add-on
<narutosan> hence forth when this is implemented within the system it can be more stable and less succeptible to attcks
<narutosan> LaserJock:  can you comment on this
<LaserJock> well, sounds cool
<narutosan> may I get some help please??
<LaserJock> what kind of help are you looking for?
<narutosan> how do you say I need to proceed in what manner
<narutosan> what will be the front end and what the back end??
<narutosan> which one do you prefer
<LaserJock> hmm
<narutosan> I want to module to be cross-platform based one
<LaserJock> I think a GTK frontend would be good
<narutosan> ok
<LaserJock> and depending on time a webfrontend might be cool
<narutosan> yes I was thinking about the same thing
<narutosan> but about the installation!!
<narutosan> for webfrontend the background has to be placed in /var/www/ ---some systems ; some others have something like /srv/www
<LaserJock> well, that should all be configurable
<narutosan> ok
<narutosan> may I ask you a question?
<narutosan> are you one among the mentors??
<LaserJock> hopefully
<narutosan> oh great!!;0
<LaserJock> I'm waiting for my application to be approved
<narutosan> ;0
<narutosan> ok
<narutosan> i wish luck
<narutosan> anyways does the application sound exciting
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> we already have a program called schooltool
<LaserJock> you might want to check that out
<narutosan> ok
<LaserJock> and see where you could improve on it
<narutosan> ok
<narutosan> may I take some time-out and revert back to you ?
<LaserJock> that's fine
<narutosan> LaserJock: is the teachers-gradebook an attachment to the schooltool
<LaserJock> I'm not really sure
<LaserJock> it might be it was intended as a replacement
<Lameiro> narutosan, no. at least the SoC page suggests PyGTK
<narutosan> that is what
<Lameiro> i mean, if the application is gonna be GTK-based, it cannot be part of schooltool. but its core can...
<narutosan> ok
<narutosan> I want to develop it as a separate module
<narutosan> I don't want to make it school specific
<Burgundavia> umm?
<Burgundavia> is a gradebook not school specific by definition?
<narutosan> there are different ways of grading
<narutosan> grading --- done in the school and grading done for various competitions are different right
<Burgundavia> right
<narutosan> there are different areas that are essential to be school specific
<LaserJock> you just want to make sure is usable and realistic
<narutosan> right so what I was looking is that it should me made universal be it for a school or for a certain competition it should work fine, users must be able to download the module and should be able to use as straight as possible
<narutosan> exactly but I am not adding any unnecessary things
<narutosan> what I am opting for is it should be made more descriptive providing different various options so that you can make it configurable
<narutosan> so what you say is frontend in PhGTK / Webbased??
<LaserJock> I think pygtk to start with
<narutosan> k
<narutosan> backend
<narutosan> ??
<LaserJock> whatever it takes to get the job done :-)
<narutosan> ;0
<narutosan> ok
<narutosan> thank you so much for your help ; I will start my application now
<narutosan> *writing
<LaserJock> cool
<narutosan> LaserJock: can I use perl to be the backend??
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> it would make the most sense to use python, IMO
<LaserJock> as the primary fronted will be GTK
<LaserJock> but I guess that could be debated later
<narutosan> hey what is IMO??
<LaserJock> In My Opinion
<narutosan> !!
<narutosan> LaserJock: Will you check my app.?
<narutosan> can some-one check my application for GSoc for edubuntu??
<narutosan> !!
<narutosan> hello!!..
<cbx33> hi
<LaserJock> hi narutosan
<cbx33> LaserJock: get to bed ;)
<narutosan> hello
<cbx33> hehe
<LaserJock> cbx33: getting there, my eyes hurt and I'm getting a headache
<cbx33> then Go To Sleep
<cbx33> ---> Film Quote Alert <------
<narutosan> LaserJock: is it so !! oh bye then
<narutosan> ;0
<narutosan> ;)
<narutosan> LaserJock: Can u please check my app.
<narutosan> I have just submitted!!
<LaserJock> do you have it available online?
<narutosan> yes of course "it can be accessed on GSoc if u are a mentor and have a valid username n password for mentors" is what it mentions
<cbx33> ahhh...
<cbx33> I can have a quick look
<cbx33> what is your name?
<narutosan> My name is Pranava Swaroop S
<narutosan> did you get it
<narutosan> cbx33: ??
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> looks great
<narutosan> thank you
<narutosan> :)
<narutosan> can you give me any comments
<narutosan> I mean any additions or deletions that has to be made
<narutosan> ??
<cbx33> I don;t think so....it looks like a decent application to me
<narutosan> may i know how many people have applied for the same
<narutosan> *****Gonna go for Lunch!!
<kigurai> cbx33: I have submitted my application now
<LaserJock> ogra: I put several more Edubuntu projects on the SoC ideas page
<LaserJock> not sure if they are all that much us, but Keybuk wanted to know if I had any ideas so i put some up real quick
<LaserJock> s/us/use/
<ogra_> saw that
<ogra_> thanks
<ogra_> even though i'm really not after managing so many projects ...
<LaserJock> well, hopefully you won't need to
<highvoltage> hey LaserJock and ogra
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage
<cliebow>  /join  #ubuntu
<highvoltage> cliebow: what's happening there?
<cliebow> hi:  just  getting  ready  to go  to school..
<cliebow> got   pygtk  on  my mind...
<cliebow> need to test  the  sound  on  the ppc feisty client this A.M. if things are quiet.
<cliebow> so feed the dogs..the cats..the parrots..the fish..the outside birds..the wife.
<highvoltage> geez, lots of animals
<cliebow> regular  zoo..sounds like GFuatemaka in  here...what  piece of edubuntu you working  on?
<cliebow> hmmm.gotta drive to school..bbiab..
<sbalneav> Morning all
<ogra> afternoon
<jsgotangco> hi!
<highvoltage> hey friendly friends!
<sbalneav> ogra: Spent some time going through the programs list night. Tried the "enhanced desktop effects" or whatever the heck they call that whacky window manager.
<sbalneav> And I have to say, for the record
<sbalneav> It sucks.
<sbalneav> big time.
<ogra> heh
<bddebian> Heya
<ogra> i havent seen it ever ... got no card supporting composite here ...
<sbalneav> Firefox COMPLETELY messes up underneath it.
<sbalneav> it's a HUGE cpu hog.
<ogra> i tried bery with xgl on my ati card ... but that suicked a lot ...
<ogra> *beryl
<sbalneav> People seem to go gaga over this, I'm left wondering "what are they smoking".
<ogra> luckily we dont ship it in edubuntu :)
<ogra> well, its cool in new HW
<sbalneav> I've got 20 bucks right here right now.
<ogra> if you have 3GHz dual core, 2Gig of RAM and a new nvidia card in your laptop it will rock
<sbalneav> This twenty says: anyone who turns it on, and thinks it's cool, turns it off in two months once the novelty's worn off.
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> "I'm going to carry around a box that's capable of serving 30 thin clients, because I want my WINDOWS to wiggle when I move 'em around" :)
<sbalneav> wiggle wiggle wiggle
<ogra> heh
<ogra> dont forget they drop real shadows to cool your coke on the desktop in the sun ;)
<sbalneav> Sorry, I know I'm sounding like a grade-a ***hole here, but MAN, if we could get all those graphics guys making windows burning in one of those windows managers working on the Gimp, or producing a great Free 3d game or something...
<jsgotangco> yup
<sbalneav> We need to get some good 3d games included in the distro, if there's room.
<sbalneav> Or maybe a "gamebuntu"
<sbalneav> add Glest, warzone2100, Wesnoth, etc.
* highvoltage doesn't like the need for proprietary drivers for beryl/compiz on some machines (but I've ranted enough about that ;) )
* jsgotangco will continue his vacation
<jsgotangco> :)
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Do like I am, switching to Intel graphics.
<sbalneav> Plus, sending nice letters to intel encouraging them to produce an AGP card with their graphics chipset,so you don't have to replace your mobo to get it.
<crimsun> yeah, I passed up a core 2 duo so that I could stick w/ intel graphics
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I have intel graphics on all my machines ;)
<sbalneav> Good man
<sbalneav> I'm 1/2 way there.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I made the switch since I was wow'd by my little i845 4 years ago
* highvoltage is 7/8ths there
<highvoltage> my one computer has one of these S3 Unichrome cards onboard
<highvoltage> but I've demoted it to a file and xen server
<sbalneav> Yeah, I was gonna say.
<highvoltage> if it doesn't have an intel card that works with free drivers, it's not desktop worthy for me :)
<sbalneav> S3 is to video what, say, a McDonalds cheeseburger is to fine cuisine.
<highvoltage> heh
<sbalneav> Or, subway come to think of it.
<sbalneav> haha
<highvoltage> lol!
<highvoltage> then you should say, "what subway is to french cuisine"!
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> Coming to the next UDS?
<highvoltage> having said that, the subway over here is much better than the subway in france.
<highvoltage> I don't know, RichEd says it's 99% confirmed, he wants me to talk at the education summit happening before the UDS
<highvoltage> but I haven't received final confirmation yet.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: and you?
<sbalneav> I'm willing to wager you've got some local restaurants that serve Boer/Dutch/Native SA dishes that kick the butt off anything Subway has to serve :)
<sbalneav> Far as I know, I'll be there.
<highvoltage> heh
<sbalneav> You'll have a chance to redeem yourself, culinary wise.
<sbalneav> Just do what we do, say what we say. :)
* highvoltage will have to do that
<highvoltage> I'd like to have some time to talk to ogra and Laser_away and yourself and any other edubuntu members that might be there about edubuntu and how we can get some more momentum in the project
<highvoltage> things have become more sane for me the last month or so, so I can get into edubuntu much more easier again
<ogra> highvoltage, you dont come to UES ?
<ogra> we should have plenty of time to talk about everything there
<highvoltage> ogra: riched said there's a 99% probability that I will, but I don't have confirmation yet
<ogra> right, and rich is apparently not able to get online from where he is atm
<ogra> next week then
<highvoltage> where is he at the moment?
<ogra> somewhere travelling in africa ...
<highvoltage> when is UES again? I can't find the exact dates in my logs anymore
<ogra> to some conf or something, i'm not 100% sure
<ogra> three days before UDS, same place
<cbx33> ogra: can you let RichEd know I can't get to UES
<kigurai> Hello everyone
<juliux> hi kigurai
<ogra> cbx33, no, surely not before you can do it yourself ... he's still travelling
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> I bet you'll see him before I will ;)
<kigurai> cbx33: Did you get my application? :)
<cbx33> google got your apication yes ;)
<kigurai> cbx33: Haha :)
<ogra> http://www.fysioforum.nl/
<ogra> hmm
<gvx> can some one please assist me with creating a custom live cd?  I have a cd burned and a second pc ready to partition...
<cliebow_> Yeccch: just blew away a perfeclty good mint install so put on xp..so the little christers can use Plato Learning
<Kobie> after a while my dsl connection disconnects in ifconfig ppp0 upper to be up a download continues but mozilla wont any one can help ?
<cbx33> Hey Burgwork
<cbx33> do you have a media pc then?
<Burgwork> no, but I am in the middle of designing one
<cbx33> awesome
<cbx33> seen linuxmce?
<cbx33> that's what I'm gonna use for it
<cbx33> but I'm just trying to work out the hardware
<cliebow__> cbx33:studentcontrolpanel.ltcm doesnt seem available..running student-control-panel
<cbx33> Ill be downloading the pacakge a little later on
<cliebow__> excellent..can you give a link when you do??
<cbx33> of course
<cliebow__> im trying to get a handle on it 8~)
<rockprincess> howdy howdy
<tackat> Is there anyone curious enough to try an early beta: http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Marble+-+Desktop+Globe?content=55105
<tackat> :)
<rockprincess> tackat: yeah sure, certainly!!! is there a .deb file? :D
<tackat> rockprincess: yes
<rockprincess> tackat: cool, thank you!! i'll try it!!!
<tackat> rockprincess: Install http://developer.kde.org/~tackat/marble/kubuntu/marble_0.3-1_i386.deb and http://developer.kde.org/~tackat/marble/kubuntu/marble-data_0.3-1_all.deb
<rockprincess> tackat: uhhhh missing dependencies....
<tackat> rockprincess: ??????
<tackat> rockprincess: you only need Qt 4.2
<rockprincess> tackat: libgcc1 libc6 libstdc++6
<rockprincess> are missing, need to install them first
<tackat> are you on edgy or feisty?
<rockprincess> edgy
<tackat> ok
<tackat> they are made for edgy
<rockprincess> hmmm, doesn
<rockprincess> doesn't work :(
<rockprincess> i just tried to install the above mentioned libraries manually, but it says they're already installed
<tackat> rockprincess: what kind of processor? do you have
<rockprincess> amd
<tackat> hm
<tackat> still strange :)
<tackat> you're the first to report that it doesn't work and I had several kubuntu people trying it already
<rockprincess> libc6 (>= 2.5-0ubuntu1) but 2.4-1ubuntu12.3 should be installed....says the konsole
<rockprincess> hmm :(
<tackat> are you sure that it's not a leftover dependency from some other package?
<rockprincess> hmm maybe......shall i try a force install? http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin//search_packages.pl?version=edgy&subword=1&exact=&arch=any&releases=all&case=insensitive&keywords=libc6&searchon=names
<tackat> did you do an "apt-get -f install" before?
<rockprincess> nope
<tackat> try that
<tackat> :)
<rockprincess> okidok
<rockprincess> hmm i think an apt-get -f install won't work, as marble isn't in the ubuntu repositories yet, is it?
<rockprincess> when i install apt-get -f install marble it will install something different probably?
<tackat> no. You just do.
<tackat> apt-get -f install
<tackat> No "marble" behind that
<rockprincess> ok
<tackat> and then tell me what it says :)
<rockprincess> it said: Entferne marble ... which means "removing marble"
<tackat> ok
<tackat> anything else?
<rockprincess> nothing else, i'm afraid
<tackat> strange :)
<rockprincess> what a pity....i wanted to try out marble because the screenshots look wicked :)
<rockprincess> is it maybe because i ain't got qt4.2 yet?
<tackat> d'oh
<tackat> yes
<tackat> you need qt4.2 first :)
<tackat> so please install qt4.2 and once you did, try again to install those two marble-deb's
<tackat> :)
<rockprincess> will i fuck up my system if i install qt4.2. is there any harm or am i mixing things up with kde4?
<rockprincess> ok
<tackat> no
<tackat> qt4.2 doesn't touch any parts of your existing KDE
<rockprincess> excellent ;)
<rockprincess> hmmm can
<rockprincess> can't find the package
<rockprincess> what packages are needed for qt4.2?
<rockprincess> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin//search_packages.pl?version=edgy&subword=1&exact=&arch=any&releases=all&case=insensitive&keywords=qt4&searchon=names
<tackat> libqt4-core
<tackat> libqt4-gui
<tackat> that's about it
<rockprincess> thank you!
<rockprincess> hmm both are already installed
<rockprincess> trying something different...hold on
<rockprincess> fuck....
<rockprincess> it says "trying to remove kubuntu-desktop"
<tackat> wow :) what are you doing over there?
<tackat> apt-get install libqt4-core libqt4-gui
<tackat> should never try to remove anything :)
<rockprincess> Qt 4 core non-GUI functionality runtime library
<rockprincess> The -kdecopy version of Qt 4 is for KDE 4 developers only. It is a build of qt-copy from KDE's SVN and will always conflict with the normal Qt 4 packages. No binary compatibility is guaranteed.
<rockprincess> Qt is a cross-platform C++ application framework. Qt's primary feature is its rich set of widgets that provide standard GUI functionality.
<rockprincess> This packages contains the core non-GUI shared library, and the Network and XML modules.
<tackat> You tried to install the wrong package :)
<tackat> I didn't say:
<tackat> libqt4-gui-kdecopy
<tackat> I said:
<tackat> libqt4-gui
<tackat> same for: libqt4-core-kdecopy vs. libqt4-core
<tackat> So just do: apt-get install libqt4-core libqt4-gui
<rockprincess> yep, but libqt4-gui was already installed......anyway, i reinstalled libqt4-core and kubuntu-desktop....hopefully there won't be too much damages
<rockprincess> anyway, i think i shall reboot.....wish me luck :D
<tackat> rockprincess: and?
<rockprincess> tackat: being a bit paranoid right now, and backing up my /.kde/ folder before i boot ;)
<rockprincess> might take some time hehe
<sayan_> o/
<rockprincess> tackat: still not working....but atleast everything's fine with kubuntu....i'll try to install it on monday when I'm at my school again...different setup, might work there...
<tri> can someone help, my nic driver does not load NVIDIA nForce MCP networking adapter
<cbx33> cliebow, tcm works fine here
#edubuntu 2007-03-24
<cliebow>  cbx33:ok...all those import pieces are in the  samefolder? or am i proving my ignorance..
<cliebow> running out to the car
<cliebow> such as studentcontrolpanel.tcm
<cliebow> studentcontrolpanel.vbc
<cliebow> studentcontrolpanel.tcmplugins.
<cliebow> i hace bnone of these
<cliebow> maybe i have the wrong  folder????
<gvc> hello
<gvc> can someone help me load nvidia nforce2 Chipset Driver
<gvc> this seems different than what edubuntu has https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia
<gvc> is there anyone there?
<Burgwork> gvc: those refer to nvidia graphics cards, not chipsets
<gvc> hmmm
<gvc> I know it was all someone in#ubuntu could produce
<gvc> I need to get the nic and audio working on this http://www.biostar-usa.com/mbdetails.asp?model=M7NCG%20400
<Burgwork> it should just work
<Burgwork> which version of Ubuntu are you using?
<Burgwork> is this is a thin client?
<gvc> no just installed on 10 g
<gvc> drive
<gvc> 6.10 edubuntu
<gvc> I did this lspci | grep -i nvidia at the terminal
<Burgwork> so the sound completely doesn't work?
<gvc> I show a 00:04.0 Ethernet controller: nvidia copr nForce2 ehternet controller
<gvc> no ..more concerned with the nic
<gvc> sticks typing from two pcs
<Burgwork> the nic should just work as well
<Burgwork> I have one in my desktop and it has worked since hoary
<gvc> did you see the board I have ...the web address for the Biostar
<gvc> ?
<Burgwork> no
<Burgwork> which version of Ubuntu did you isntall?
<gvc> edubuntu 6.10
<gvc> http://www.biostar-usa.com/mbdetails.asp?model=M7NCG%20400
<gvc> thats my motherboard
<gvc> anyone know how to make a nvidia nic and audio chipset work?
<Burgundavia> hey SimonAnibal
<Burgundavia> long time, no chat
<Burgundavia> how goes your school?
<narutosan> LaserJock: Hi
<LaserJock> hi narutosan
<narutosan> hey did u check my application
<jsgotangco> hey!
<narutosan> hello
<LaserJock> narutosan: what's the name?
<narutosan> Pranava Swaroop
<jsgotangco> hello LaserJock
<narutosan> congrats for becoming a mentor!!
<jsgotangco> wow LaserJock you're a mentor now?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: ! long time no see
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: well, seems like there were a number of Edubuntu applicants. I didn't want ogra to have to do it all ;-)
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: you doing any SoC stuff this year?
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: well i am on holiday till tomorrow so I haven't been online
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: no, I don
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: no I don't I dunno who is handling it nor if mentorship is still open
<nixternal> jsgotangco!!
<jsgotangco> hi!
* jsgotangco is somewhere in very high altitude for holiday of sorts
<jsgotangco> while using Xandros lol
<nixternal> hehe
* nixternal is somewhere in Chicago using...Kubuntu of course
<jsgotangco> heh a friend of mine working at Xandros sent me preview of desktop and server for evaluation purposes
* LaserJock is in Sacramento, CA at his grandpa's house
<jsgotangco> i promised him i would write an article about it in a local tech mag
<nixternal> how is it?
<jsgotangco> its usable but not revolutionary
<jsgotangco> but it failed to install the nv driver and fellback to vesa
<nixternal> hrmm
<jsgotangco> but I guess that's a good thing to have vesa as fallback
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hi ajmitch!
<ajmitch> what's up?
<ajmitch> still busy taking over the world?
<jsgotangco> heh I'm somewhere back home but at very high altitude with good internet access
<ajmitch> fun :)
* ajmitch is busy fighting autotools right now
<jsgotangco> just spending a few days off at work, before a longer break that would happen in 2 weeks lol
<ajmitch> how nice it'd be to have time off :)
<jsgotangco> i'm gonna setup a small desktop good enough for skywatching and move my telescope over there
* ajmitch upgrades dbus & waits for his connection to drop
<ajmitch> back later :)
<jsgotangco> nixternal: I wonder who is smoking in Xandros though, choosing Keramik for a business desktop rather than plastique
<nixternal> eww
<nixternal> Keramik should have been removed in like 1996
<jsgotangco> exactly
<jsgotangco> it has updated apps though, its not like its stuck in the mid-90s for eternity
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> but it is close
<jsgotangco> brb
<narutosan> Laser_away: hello
<narutosan> Laser_away: are you there??
<narutosan> hello
<rockprincess> hello!
<tackat> hi rockprincess
<rockprincess> hey tackat ;) I've noticed you're in #kde-edu as well ;)
<tackat> yes
<rockprincess> how's the feedback for marble so far? I'm hoping to install it on monday :)
<tackat> feedback is great :)
<tackat> It will be even better for the next release 0.4 which I plan to release mid-April ;)
<rockprincess> i've read in the kde-edu mailinglist that they're having been discussion about mixing marble and kgeography into one application! is that still on? i'd like to see that happening, becuase i think both are very good and useful applications!
<tackat> It would make pretty much sense as KGeography doesn't really have a map widget
<rockprincess> cool :) keep it up :)
<tackat> With Marble you can do much more stuff without having to create special content.
<tackat> and it takes less diskspace for doing that
<tackat> If you take a look at http://developer.kde.org/~tackat/marble/marble14.png for example, the map is actually a grayscale map on the harddisk which needs less space than a colourful one. That map gets recoloured and bumpmapped on the fly
<rockprincess> wow cool!
<tackat> So it's pretty efficient
<rockprincess> brb....lunch
<_ke> hi!
<_ke> i just tried to install edubuntu and get LTSP working. now im in a private network with self defined IP-adresses. i set up the dhcp-server and then booted the clients (with PXE and etherboot). in both cases, the clients are able to find the server, and try to load pxelinuz.0, but they hang loading. on the on i get the message: TFTP Open Timeout. what could i do?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<gvc> can someone help me load my nvidia nforce2 Chipset Drivers...I did this "lspci | grep -i nvidia" at the terminal...I show a 00:04.0 Ethernet controller: nvidia copr nForce2 ehternet controller...the NIC is most important right now
<rockprincess> Pete!
<cbx33> hey
<rockprincess> cbx33: did your GSoC ideas get accepted?
<cbx33> not sure
<sbalneav> Morning all
<rockprincess> morning sbalneav!
<sbalneav> Hello rockprincess
<juliux> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Blowing away my laptop now, came with Ubuntu Edgy, now installing Edubuntu Feisty!
<sbalneav> Wheeeee
<sbalneav> 90%
<rockprincess> heheh ;)
<LaserJock> narutosan: I am now ;-)
<narutosan> ok
<narutosan> LaserJock: did you check my application??
<narutosan> LaserJock: Can you please get me a remark on my app.
<narutosan> LaserJock: ??
<LaserJock> looking at it now
<narutosan> oh thanx!!
<dubbydubby> hey anyone im having problems, when i do lshw it returns this for my network device *-network UNCLAIMED
<LaserJock> narutosan: looks pretty good
<narutosan> LaserJock: may I know how many apps so far for the same topic?
<narutosan> LaserJock: ??
<LaserJock> narutosan: there are quite a few
<cello_rasp> hi. which controls theme (gtk theme) does edubuntu use? Is it Human (Orange) or does it use a red version of the human theme?
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if it's completely different or not
<LaserJock> but it's based on the Edubuntu colors
<cello_rasp> what color is are the highlight on the scrollbar?
<cello_rasp> (I'm assuming you are using edubuntu right now)
<LaserJock> I'm not actually
<LaserJock> in fact you're luck to catch me at home when I'm in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> *lucky
<cello_rasp> heh :)
<LaserJock> I spend a majority of my time in OS X ssh'd to Ubuntu
<LaserJock> so I'm not great with *buntu GUI stuff
<highvoltage> sies.
<jelkner> hi all, we are trying to run ltsp-build-client and our network connection keeps timing out (we always have this problem inside the school network).
<jelkner> where does ltsp-build-client get its data from?
<jelkner> can we setup a mirror and point it to the mirror?
<highvoltage> jelkner: ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///path-to-mirror
<highvoltage> (or replace file:/// with http://archive.ubuntu.yourmirror.com
<jelkner> thanks!
<sbalneav> Hey all
<sbalneav> Anyone have any experience with the intel wireless ipw3945 driver?
<stgraber> sbalneav: That's what I have in my laptop but it "works" that's all :)
<stgraber> never did something else than using it with NetworkManager for now
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I use it on my laptop
<sbalneav> Huh!
<sbalneav> Fresh install of Edubuntu
<sbalneav> linux-restricted-modules-generic wasn't installed
<sbalneav> THATS either a bug, or a policy change
<LaserJock> bug I'd think
<jelkner> we have a feisty edubuntu server running
<jelkner> clients get the graphical log-in
<jelkner> but log-in fails
<jelkner> you can log-in the chroot via tty1
<sbalneav> jelkner: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<jelkner> sbalneav: thanks!
<highvoltage> seems like having to run ltsp-update-sshkeys is still needed
<highvoltage> had to do it today with my home ltsp server too :-/
<jelkner> everything works!  thanks
#edubuntu 2007-03-25
<pirast> hi, does edubuntu's ltsp support com ports at the clients?
<kgoetz> i think in edgy/feisty, i'm fairly sure dappers wont
<Bhaskar> ltsp is built in or not in edubuntu
<kgoetz> 'built in'?
<Bhaskar> ya
<Bhaskar> kgoetz, i mean already packaged or not
<kgoetz> workstation install is stand alone, in dapper the default install has ltsp from the start
<kgoetz> its packaged, and installable after the install
<Bhaskar> edubuntu having ltsp in live cd
<Bhaskar> or not
<kgoetz> dunno.
<Bhaskar> so separate package, need to download?
<kgoetz> (in dapper) one type of install has ltsp by default, the other type you need to isntall it after
<Bhaskar> dapper mean in 6.06 or ?
<Bhaskar> edubuntu 6.06  or 6.10
<kgoetz> dapper=6.06
<Bhaskar> ltsp not in 6.10?
<kgoetz> yes its in there, but i havent used it for that, so i dont know how it works exactly
<Bhaskar> need to install ltsp extra in edubuntu 6.10?
<kgoetz> .......
<kgoetz> no, for the logs
* kgoetz wonders if hes lost his skills to explain
<ajmitch> kgoetz: it's ok ;)
<kgoetz> ajmitch: its a worry for me, i'm delivering training soon ;)
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> "umm this linux thingy, you do that & then this"
<kgoetz> speaking of which... *goes back to writting training material :S*
<kgoetz> lol
<kgoetz> rockprincess: !
<rockprincess> hi kgoetz!
<kgoetz> :)
<rockprincess> what are you up to, kgoetz? ;)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<rockprincess> hi highvoltage!
<rockprincess> wb kgoetz
<highvoltage> hi rockprincess!
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<kgoetz> ty
<kgoetz> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey kgoetz
<kgoetz> night all. hopefully not as knackerd when i wake u ptomorrow
<rockprincess> hehe
<pygi> ogra_, ogra : poke
<ajmitch> hello pygi
<pygi> hi ajmitch
<ubotu> Announcement from my owner (Seveas): ubotu will be offline for maintenance
<juliux> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hi!
<jsgotangco> how's it going juliux
<juliux> not to bad
<juliux> cebit is over now
<tallman> hello everybody
<jsgotangco> err?? who went to cebit?
<juliux> jsgotangco, i;9
<juliux> jsgotangco, we hade a ubuntu community booth on cebit
<jsgotangco> ohhhhh
<juliux> only  4qm but ok
<tallman> is it possible to invite ubotu to #ubuntu-ru for example?
<tallman> is it possible to invite ubotu to #ubuntu-ru for example?
<tallman> !gcompris
<ubotu> gcompris: Educational games for small children. In component main, is optional. Version 7.4-3ubuntu2 (edgy), package size 294 kB, installed size 1044 kB
<flevour> hello there from italy
<flevour> i'm part of an ngo and we're bringing some laptops to Eritrea (East Africa)
<flevour> i'm deciding what version of edubuntu it would be better to use 6.06 LTS or 7.04?
<angela__75> hello there
<angela__75> help please
<Tm_T> !helpme
<ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<Tm_T> so, say what is your problem and we might can help you then :)
<angela__75> oh thanks!
<angela__75> i logged before and asked the same question: I'm part of a ngo and we are sending some laptops to eritrea... which version would you install? Is 6.06 lts still more reliable than the future 7.04?
<Tm_T> aah, different nick so can't tell ;)
<angela__75> i wasn't sure the other client worked properly so i changed... now using gaim
<Tm_T> well, 6.06 should have long support but I assume (wihtout knowing at all) that there's been important progress during a year
<Tm_T> well it did ;)
<angela__75> ;-) thanks... It won't be possible to have constant assistance there so i need a very stable version
<Tm_T> I understand
<Tm_T> so, I assume that 6.06 is more stable but 7.04 has more features
<Tm_T> but as I said, I don't really know ;)
<angela__75> is it possible to know which version of the main apps are present in 6.06?
<Tm_T> sure, http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/
<Tm_T> for example
<angela__75> oh thanks very much
<sbalneav> Afternoon all
<Burgundavia> hey sbalneav
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: do you run asterisk?
<juliux> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Burgundavia: No, not at this point, but it looks like I will soon :)
<Burgundavia> heh
<Burgundavia> I am looking around. there is no ideal solution for us ubuntu/debian users
<Burgundavia> debian stable is one major version behind
<Burgundavia> there is nobody building 1.4.x in a timely fashion
<Burgundavia> and the non-debian prepackaged distros have terrible security release policies
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: I have a half written blog post/internal company email about the various asterisk options and their up/downsides
#edubuntu 2008-03-17
<shawn__> whats up guys
<subsume> Getting ARP timeout while attempting to get thin client to boot... any clues?
<shawn__> hey guys
<shawn__> how do i change my parttion so it locks
<shawn__> i have them all unlocked right now
<cameron> oi, how do you configure the kernel in ubuntu
<cameron> in gentoo i would cd /usr/src/linux, make menuconfig
<RichEd-1> cameron: is that an edubuntu question or perhaps an ubuntu one ?
<cameron> i figure it would be the same
<cameron> plus i like smaller chat rooms
<cameron> feels more like a community
<RichEd-1> smaller has it's plus' as well as its drawbacks ...
<RichEd-1> ask the kernel Q in #ubuntu ... there are many more lower level tech guys there
<RichEd-1> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/installation-guide/ia64/kernel-baking.html
<RichEd-1> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/devel/kernel-source-2.4.27
<RichEd-1> "You may configure the kernel to your setup by typing "make config" and following instructions"
<RichEd-1> etc.
<RichEd-1> see if those links help
 * RichEd-1 is rebooting
<LaserJock> cameron: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile I think is maybe what you want
<cameron> LaserJock: indeed.
<cameron> brb
<subsume> almost got my Ubuntu Fat clients working. super exciting.
<subsume> one issue is my thin client is booting into initramfs instead of the ubuntu desktop I installed
<subsume> could it be error with NFS?
<subsume> (output scrolls too fast for me to see)
<LaserJock> hiya RichEd
<RichEd> morning mr LaserJock
<LaserJock> not sure if you saw, but I gave cameron https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile to look at
<subsume> http://dpaste.com/39773/
<RichEd> ah  ... thanks ... the links i popped up were clues, but not a direct match
<subsume> That's my issue with the initramfs. I don't get why LTSP is serving it instead of my desktop!
<RichEd> just starting my day, still coffee deprived
<subsume> Its booting the contents of /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/ instead of /opt/ltsp/i386...what gives?
<LaserJock> I thought that's what it was supposed to do
<kgoetz> LaserJock: it is in ltsp4 (i'd help, but i dont know anything about 5)
<subsume> LaserJock: So what is the point of installing anything in /opt/ltsp/i386.... if its just going to give me a RAM fs?
<subsume> ...a RAM fs from the tftpboot dir.
<LaserJock> well, I know what it's for on a thin client
<LaserJock> not sure on a fat client what'd do
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe it would be similar
<subsume> You don't do ltsp_update_image with a thin client?
<LaserJock> yes you do
<subsume> so.... the stuff in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/ has nothing to do with that.
<LaserJock> sure it does
<LaserJock> that's the kernel/initramfs that the client boots
<subsume> but /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/ is a different system than /opt/ltsp/i386
<LaserJock> then /opt/ltsp/i386/ is the chroot it botts into
<subsume> I see.
<LaserJock> yeah, but that's not a problem
<subsume> well its not doing a very good job. i'm getting dumped into this darn initramfs
<LaserJock> it's just where tftp finds the kernel to boot
<subsume> I wish I could see the startup messages on the client
<subsume> maybe there is an error triggering this
<subsume> LaserJock: maybe NFS failed?
<LaserJock> I guess that would be a possibility
<LaserJock> I've not really ever run an LTSP setup so I'm just guessing from what I've read/heard
<subsume> LaserJock: any theory how I can get my startup messages from client to server?
<LaserJock> I don't think you can
<subsume> well initramfs doesn't keep startup error logs
<LaserJock> because you probably don't have the backward connection setup yet, I'm guessing anyway
<subsume> Jeez. this bites.
<subsume> stupid ram FS
<johnny> tell it all to log to remote syslog?
<rft> Hallo! ist jemand hier von Edubuntu.de?
<subsume|work> I'm having a problem with my thin client setup -- the client machine boots into initramfs and I can't figure out why.
<LaserJock> ogra_, ogra_cmpc_: squeak-vm was *accepted* into Debian!
<ogra_cmpc_> LaserJock, i noticed it was gone from NEW this morning
<subsume|work> I'm having a problem with my thin client setup -- the client machine boots into initramfs and I can't figure out why. How to get startup error messages from client to server?
<moquist> I'm experimenting with diskless thick clients. I've done 'apt-get ubuntu-desktop' in the chroot (this is feisty, actually) and I'm wondering if anybody has any OTOHH advice for me about problems I'll have before I have a workable kiosk-like system.
<ogra_cmpc_> he's not here  ...
<moquist> ogra_cmpc_: Yeah, I checked after I posted. Maybe somebody else will be able to help, anyway. ;)
<ogra_cmpc_> there was at least some community interest recently
<juliux> ogra_cmpc, ping
<juliux> ogra_, ping
<juliux> two pings are better then one;)
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<juliux> he
<suchix> hi
<juliux> suchix is searching for you;)
<suchix> yo, a little
<ogra_cmpc> hey suchix
<suchix> ich weiÃ nicht, hat dir Julius erzÃ¤hlt worum es geht?
<suchix> there is a teacher and he needs help about IGEL in a thinclient network
<suchix> he lives in Kassel
<ogra_cmpc> right, i heard that
<suchix> ok
<suchix> want you help him?
<ogra_cmpc> i'm currently working 16-20h/day is what i told juliux already
<ogra_cmpc> i wont have any spare time before release
<suchix> i see
<juliux> i know
<juliux> i think the teacher has to wait
<ogra_cmpc> i'm fine with visiting him after release ant take a look
<ogra_cmpc> *and
<suchix> ich kÃ¶nnte dir seine Kontaktdaten mailen, wenn du das mÃ¶chtest..
<suchix> ich hab ihn gefragt ob das ok geht, und er sagte ja!
<ogra_cmpc> gut, tu das
<suchix> dann brauch ich nur eine Adresse
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<ogra_cmpc> ogra@ubuntu.com
 * ogra_cmpc thought that was well known enough :)
 * ogra_cmpc needs to work more on his celebrity state ... so people dont have to ask :P
<juliux> ogra_cmpc, perhaps you only have to switch your nick back to ogra;)
<juliux> that the address is shorter;)
<ogra_cmpc> heh
 * juliux @ubuntu.com
<juliux> ;)
<ogra_cmpc> well, the suffix points out where i work
<juliux> but for me that is not working;)
<juliux> ogra_cmpc, btw we have the chance to drink one or two beers in prag;)
<ogra_cmpc> yay
<ogra_cmpc> thats wonderful news
<juliux> or whiskey
<juliux> what every you prefer;9
<ogra_cmpc> whisky
<suchix> ogra_cmpc: you have a mail
<ogra_cmpc> never write it with an e ... there could be scots around
<ogra_cmpc> suchix, thx
<juliux> i know;)
 * juliux is drink wishky atm;)
<juliux> whisky
<suchix> today is St. Patricks Day
<juliux> hehe
<suchix> so, we drink cider :)
<ogra_cmpc> thats actually a good idea  ... i have some johnny walker green left
 * juliux has ballantines 
 * suchix drink lapacho tea
<juliux> ogra_cmpc, are you flying from kassel to hannover?
<ogra_cmpc> there is no airport in kassel
<juliux> ohhh
<juliux> i thought kassel is called city
<ogra_cmpc> they only pretend to
<juliux> hehe
<juliux> so you are flying from hannover? dortmund?
<juliux> frankfurt?
<ogra_cmpc> either hannover or frankfurt, didnt book yet
<ogra_cmpc> probably even train
<juliux> hmm
<juliux> i use the travelagents to book my flights;)
<juliux> hi LaserJock
<shiv> I need to make a bootable iso of my system with the /home folder in it. Which one of these commands should I use? http://www.ubuntugeek.com/creating-custom-ubuntu-live-cd-with-remastersys.html
<shiv> I unmounted my ntfs partition how do i remount it?
<shiv> I unmounted the sda1(ntfs) from the desktop for making remastersys. How do I remount it back on the desktop and make it mount everytime I boot?
<theunixgeek> How do I upgrade to GNOME 2.22?
<LaserJock> weird questions today
<stgraber> indeed :)
<LaserJock> not so much weird I guess as really off topic
<stgraber> I guess it's hard to know what's Ubuntu and what's Edubuntu related
<LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: this debian squeak package is a bit interesting as well
<LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: it's got about 1MB worth of dpatches in debian/patches/
#edubuntu 2008-03-18
<theunixgeek> I can't get a resolution over 800x600. How do I fix this?
<effie_jayx> where's the wastebasket ?
<daSKreech_> Hello
<daSKreech_> Anyone going to UDS?
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc, ogra__: around ?
<ogra_cmpc> yup
<ogra_cmpc> testing cds
<stgraber> just wanted to know what exactly is the policy for post-beta uploads. I have a change for iTalc which will fix an icon bug in the remote exec window and a small string fix (one word).
<stgraber> Is there some kind of problem with doc/UI freeze ? (it's a fix as currently the text is almost impossible to read due to the icon overlapping it)
<ogra_cmpc> i doubt italc is documented anywhere yet
<ogra_cmpc> so it should be fine, even though we might want to ping the docteam
<highvoltage> hey ogra_cmpc
<ogra_cmpc> highvolt1ge, hey, new zsyncable classmate images are up  :)
<ogra_cmpc> and i've polished the pacge a bit on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/classmate/images/hardy/
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: great. I'll get them now, I still have the one that had the broken X installed
<ogra_cmpc> the latest one has the new artwork :)
<ogra_cmpc> its worth a look
<ogra_cmpc> and language selection :)
<ogra_cmpc> zsync should help a lot with bandwith issues
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: what would I need to download? all the syncs since the .12 version?
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: oh definitely, I see the zsync files are nice and small!
<highvoltage> I could even manage that over GPRS if I /had/ to.
<ogra_cmpc> well, it operates like rsync, it still downloads parts of the new image to merge
<ogra_cmpc> so some MB will still go over your line
<highvoltage> ah
<highvoltage> do I need to download all the sync files, or just the latest one?
<ogra_cmpc> you need an existing img file and run zsync as described on the page above
<ogra_cmpc> (with the url to the .zsync file as argument)
<highvoltage> d'oh! I missed the instructions above, I always scroll down to the juicy bits too quickly.
<highvoltage> syncing to 13'th
<ogra_cmpc> why not directly to the 18th ?
<daSKreech_> Any one going to the Cz Rep ?
<ogra_cmpc> daSKreech_, i will, riched as well and i think moquist
<daSKreech_> Cool :-)
<stgraber> I'll do but only for FOSSCamp, got exams the week after
<stgraber> s/do//
<daSKreech_> did anyone invite annma?
<ogra_cmpc> daSKreech_, that would be a question for riched ...
<daSKreech_> Who isn't here today :)
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<ogra_cmpc> i dont know his list
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: the first one worked... now syncing to 18
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: this works very nicely :)
<ogra_cmpc> gret
<ogra_cmpc> i must admit i actually havent tested it yet :)
<highvoltage> it even verifies that it got the correct image after syncing
<ogra_cmpc> how much did it download between two images ?
<highvoltage> let me check if it said...
<highvoltage> it couldn't have been too much, since it only took about 15 minutes
<ogra_cmpc> nice
<highvoltage> and at the guest house I'm staying at we only have 384kbps dsl
<highvoltage> and it's shared between 11 people :)
<ogra_cmpc> phew
<ogra_cmpc> sounds busy
<stgraber> the good old 56kbps suddenly becomes fast :)
<highvoltage> not sure if everyone uses it though: #################### 100.0% 37.8 kBps DONE
<highvoltage> I got 37.8kbps average, which is close to the full 40kBps full speed
<highvoltage> stgraber: heh
<highvoltage> it's kind of sad, I have a 4mbps dsl line at home that's been unused for the last two months now
<highvoltage> to the latest one seems that it will take a bit longer: ################---- 83.6% 33.1 kBps 78:43 ETA
<ogra_cmpc> set up a server machine and ssh into it :)
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: oh btw, I'll soon get a decent upload too :) 25Mb/2.5Mb exactly what I need to use my remote package builder :)
<ogra_cmpc> wow
<highvoltage> but certainly a *massive* improvement to downloading entire images
<ogra_cmpc> 25M is quite cool
<highvoltage> stgraber: *drool*
<highvoltage> stgraber: 2.5Mb up?
<highvoltage> stgraber: that's not DSL, is it?
<stgraber> that's cable
 * ogra_cmpc has 2M up
<ogra_cmpc> SDSL
<johnny> is this channel going to ultimately redirect to #ubuntu?
<highvoltage> oh cool. we don't even have cable here.
<highvoltage> johnny: nope, why should it?
<ogra_cmpc> johnny, ugh, why should we ?
<ogra_cmpc> snap
<highvoltage> :)
<stgraber> johnny: nope why would you want that ?
<stgraber> (just to add one more :))
<johnny> just wondering, since it will be ubuntu with educational addons or whatever
<johnny> vs edubuntu
<highvoltage> hope we haven't scared johnny away :)
<ogra_cmpc> edubuntu will persist as brand
<johnny> i think the topic should point people for help in #ubuntu if they can't find it here
<ogra_cmpc> and always be part of the edu addon
<johnny> unless it' with the addons
<highvoltage> johnny: yes indeed, for generic ubuntu help, #ubuntu is the right channel
<ogra_cmpc> thats what we usually do
<johnny> but put it in the topic
 * ogra_cmpc perfers human interaction
<johnny> but humans aren't always here :)
<highvoltage> not!?
<ogra_cmpc> thats something visitors usually grasp
<highvoltage> hmm, we'll have to fix that.
<ogra_cmpc> if there is nobody here
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: btw, are we supposed to redirect people looking for LTSP help ? (as it's now part of ubuntu alternate and not edubuntu)
<johnny> hmm.. #ubuntu is really too big tho..
<johnny> i hate #ubuntu personally
<johnny> i never get help there
<highvoltage> imho people should still be able to expect ltsp help from #edubuntu still
<johnny> i usually have to go ask a gentoo person person
 * stgraber too, haven't joined it for years :)
<ogra_cmpc> the topic is full enough, and from time to time i personally like to do basic support fro actual #ubuntu questions
<johnny> and pretend i'm using gentoo
<highvoltage> johnny: you're quite right, #ubuntu is actually quite horrible, that is also something that needs to be fixed
 * ogra_cmpc was resident in #ubuntu for 1.5years ... doing daily support for at least 1-2h
<ogra_cmpc> i'm still logged in there constantly
<ogra_cmpc> but rarely read it
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: still now? wow. ogra FTW :)
<johnny> i'm too busy doing support for my other projects to help everybody using ubuntu :)
<ogra_cmpc> highvolt1ge, its a good indicator if freenbode is still alive :P
<highvoltage> #ubuntu has become too noisey, I also get highlited accidentally all the time when people press hi<tab>
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: heh
<ogra_cmpc> "if all channels go quiet #ubuntu will still scroll"
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<johnny> i don't think i've only gotten useful help in #ubuntu once, and that was quite some time ago.. the rest of the time, nobody knows anything
<johnny> my questions are usually too advanced for that channel i guess
<ogra_cmpc> well currently there are 1295 ppl in there
<ogra_cmpc> the time i was active there it were around 500
<pygi> put a whole bunch of even most intelligent people in the room, and you'll get no answer/conclusion
<highvoltage> ##################-- 91.4% 41.8 kBps 32:56 ETA
<juliux> evening
<highvoltage> hi juliux
<juliux> hey highvolt1ge
<juliux> hey highvoltage
<LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: still up?
<LaserJock> moquist: you around?
<Positronic> if I have a question about edubuntu on powerPCs would I go here or the PPC channel?
<moquist> LaserJock: pongo
<moquist> Positronic: probably PPC, but that's a guess. Depends on the question.
<LaserJock> moquist: mvo in #ubuntu-devel wants to talk to you about moodle
<moquist> k; thx
<LaserJock> moquist: do an apt-cache show ucf to see what that is (I didn't know) :-)
#edubuntu 2008-03-19
<LaserJock> hi dtrask
<dtrask> dude!
<dtrask> How's life in NV?
<LaserJock> going ok
<cesar_bo> Hi, How can I set a printer from the client side
<cesar_bo> anyone can help me with this?
<johnny> hmm.. they seem to just work for me so far..
<johnny> or do you mean a printer connected to the client itself?
<johnny> i just have it connected to my server
<cesar_bo> to the client itself
<johnny> usb printer?
<cesar_bo> lp0 a matrix dot printer
<johnny> ugh
<johnny> i don't even remember how to configure that old stuff
<cesar_bo> yea I know :(
<johnny> where do you live?
<cesar_bo> but, I read tht ltps.org but it seem that doc there doesn't work well
<cesar_bo> Bolivia :D
<johnny> aha
<johnny> so printers are not always easily available?
<cesar_bo> well ... Isn't like wer are on the third world ... but this are the the less expensive for the schools
<johnny> hmm.. just figured you might be able to get newer ones donated
<johnny> people are always upgrading printers around here
<cesar_bo> for now, would be great get this to work
<cesar_bo> I read the ltsp.org docs, and endeed there is a method, using the /etc/lts.conf file
<johnny> hmm
<johnny> i think ltsp.org docs are outdated
<johnny> the edubuntu handbook is better
<johnny> ltsp docs are for ltsp4?
<johnny> you're prolly using ltsp5
<cesar_bo> yea could be
<johnny> check the file on your computer called lts-parameters.txt
<johnny> use locate to find it.. i forget the path
<cesar_bo> but isn't working ... and on the cookbook the printer section is empty :/
 * johnny isn't in ubuntu atm
<johnny> it has the comprehensive list of parameters that work
<cesar_bo> hooo this file ! I don't have it
<johnny> try just lts-parameters
<cesar_bo> I use the ltsp-standalone server
<johnny> yes
<johnny> it should be there
<johnny> ubuntu runs updatedb by default i think
<johnny> try updatedb && locate lts-parameters
<cesar_bo> let me see again
<cesar_bo> let me get clear one thing
<cesar_bo> I get the ltsp work with out installing the ltsp-client package, just with the ltsp-standalone package
<cesar_bo> If I try to install the ltsp-client I get dependencie errors
<cesar_bo> so, the file you told me is endeed on the ltps-client package
<cesar_bo> I am quite confuse.... :P jejeje but the standalone server looks to not listen the lts.conf file
<LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: squeak is just evil
<LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: I got emails back from Lex Spoon and the author of the squeak VM about licensing
<LaserJock> and I also had a look at the squeak-vm package in Debian
<ogra_cmpc> and ?
<ogra_cmpc> no way ?
<LaserJock> well, the squeak Vm author claims it's been MIT for years
<LaserJock> but that's totally not what it says for the current stable version
<LaserJock> the Debian package is actually a svn snapshot and *is* MIT
<LaserJock> the licensing of the Debian package is awesome, he really did a good job with the debian/copyright
 * kgoetz thought debian didnt have one at all - i just learned something *heh*
<ogra_cmpc> LaserJock, well, then it shouldnt be a prob to pull it in
<ogra_cmpc> the other question is ... does it work ?
<LaserJock> *but*, the debian maintainer is the guy that did the Linex stuff and so there is well over 1MB worth of patches
<LaserJock> and yeah, I just installed it and it really doesn't work
<ogra_cmpc> doesn't ... hrm
<LaserJock> it has a .desktop, but it just calls the CLI squeak
<ogra_cmpc> bah
<LaserJock> the browser plugin doesn't work
<ogra_cmpc> bad debian habit
<LaserJock> and it's really hard to pull out what all is going on
<ogra_cmpc> is it worse or better than what we have now ?
<LaserJock> because like the .desktop and icons are in a 96K linex .dpatch
<LaserJock> it's got a 780K configure.dpatch
<ogra_cmpc> sigh
<LaserJock> that does who knows what
<ogra_cmpc> i'd say we concentrate on either making pitti happy with your current package or we keep what we have in the archive
<LaserJock> so I looked at maybe taking the .orig.tar.gz (which is dfsg but the maintainer doesn't say what he removed :/ )
<ogra_cmpc> at least that worked *somehow8
<LaserJock> and using it with the other packaging
<LaserJock> but the package from Lex and Matej just has a single 3.9M diff in debian/patches
<LaserJock> I can't believe the upstream thought it was ridiculous to say the vm was GPL/Squeak licensed
<LaserJock> it's *his* silly COPYING/COPYRIGHT/LICENSE mess that pitti had a problem with
<nixternal> holy smokes, it is ogra_cmpc
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<nixternal> ogra_cmpc: the chapter has been edited until it has bled, and now I will be the chapter master forever more
<ogra_cmpc> nixternal, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-install-ubuntu.png
<nixternal> which means, come the next release, it is getting an Extreme Chapter Makeover
<ogra_cmpc> something for the next chapter :)
<nixternal> for Intrepid or Hardy?
<ogra_cmpc> hardy
<ogra_cmpc> (i think we talked about that when you had to manually preseed it and there was no gui option some weeks ago)
<nixternal> I have driven around to every bookstore in the area, and none of them has the book
<nixternal> OK, so it looks like I am going to have to update the screenshots then
<LaserJock> really? my Barnes and Noble had it last I looked
<nixternal> Barnes and Noble, Borders, Frys, University Book Store...all of them are out
<jsgotangco> hey guys
<LaserJock> geeze, it's like a blast from the past in here
<nixternal> whoa, and it is jerome
<nixternal> no doubt, Edubuntu is going old school tonight
<LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: well, are you insanely busy right now?
<johnny> beep
<nixternal> LaserJock: do you have the book (2nd ed.)?
<johnny> i'm n00b.. so not that old school
<kgoetz> heh
<ogra_cmpc> LaserJock, sadly, yes
<LaserJock> nixternal: of the "Official" book?
<nixternal> yes
<johnny> hey ogra...
<nixternal> I gave mine away
<LaserJock> no, I don't even have the 1st
<johnny> fun times tonight..
<nixternal> I have the 1st, nobody wanted it though :)
<nixternal> ogra_cmpc: do you have a copy of the book (2nd ed.)?
<ogra_cmpc> LaserJock, UTC 7:00 is my wednesday nemesis
<nixternal> I have to finish up the chapter edits tomorrow, rearranging the entire LTSP section
<LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: alright. Well, I'm really strapped for time, but I'll really try to get something to pitti ASAP
<ogra_cmpc> nixternal, i think i have one of the first edition somewhere in a box ...
<LaserJock> and then I wash my hands of squeak
<nixternal> hehe, I have that, but there isn't an edubuntu chapter in it
<LaserJock> I don't want anything to do with it again
<ogra_cmpc> LaserJock, well, thne blindly syncing from debian would be best
<LaserJock> that's what I'm afraid of :/
<ogra_cmpc> i guess they will have sane and working packages for the lenny release, so all we need atm is something to skip that time gap
<LaserJock> I can see if I can fix it up a tad first
<LaserJock> but it should go through pitti no problem
<LaserJock> the debian/copyright is beautiful
<LaserJock> it's also much newer
<LaserJock> the VM in the other packages is from 2006
<LaserJock> the one in Debian is from like 2 weeks ago or something
<nixternal> g'nite all!
<kgoetz> later mate
<LaserJock> time for bed here too
<LaserJock> cya Edupeople
<hivo-cmpc> ogra_cmpc: i think it was a very good idea using abiword and gnumeric instead of OOo
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<ogra_cmpc> there is a bug ion fstab you might want to fix to not run out of ram
<ogra_cmpc> remove the line for /tmp
<ogra_cmpc> and reboot
<hivo-cmpc> ok
<ogra_cmpc> i found that when i tried to watch a 30min youtube movie yesterday night
<ogra_cmpc> which actually works fine if you dont fill your ram with /tmp :)
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: Did you try italc on the classmates ?
<highvoltage> heh
<hivo-cmpc> kde apps still start slow, but I think that is to be expected.
<hivo-cmpc> only so much you can do on this footprint
<ogra_cmpc> hivo-cmpc, only the first time you start one
<hivo-cmpc> true
<ogra_cmpc> its the shoddy sound daemon that takes so long
<ogra_cmpc> hmm
<ogra_cmpc> no meeting on the schedule today
<hivo-cmpc> oh really? wow. so that means there's a possibility of speeding it up in the future.
<ogra_cmpc> not as long as kde uses arts
<ogra_cmpc> so not in hardy
<hivo-cmpc> kde4 uses something else, don't they?
<ogra_cmpc> for intrepid i have some ideas ...
<ogra_cmpc> like adding compcache to the kernel
<hivo-cmpc> are UI changes out of the question?
<ogra_cmpc> that will add a third of ram
<hivo-cmpc> what does compcache do?
<hivo-cmpc> oh wow
<ogra_cmpc> i'm planning to start a subnotebook desktop team with bryce in intrepid
<ogra_cmpc> we'll try to adjust apps
<ogra_cmpc> for hardy the screen switcher in the panel needs to be enough
<hivo-cmpc> I think it could be worth while combining the panels. the top panel has unused space, and the bottom pannel is mostly used for the application list. I thought that they mihgt be better combined on this small screen
<ogra_cmpc> i'm dropping all apps that dont work on 800x600 atm
<hivo-cmpc> ah, good idea
<ogra_cmpc> but that are not many
<ogra_cmpc> they usually work at 600px height
<hivo-cmpc> ogra_cmpc: I love subnotebooks, I want to get the Eee with the larger display when it's available here.
<ogra_cmpc> pfft
<ogra_cmpc> get a classmate 2.0 :0
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<hivo-cmpc> :)
<hivo-cmpc> what's the specs on 2.0? or isn't the specs available yet?
<ogra_cmpc> it will have 9" and the flash attached to the ide bus
<hivo-cmpc> I saw some intel-looking laptops on engadget the other day that looked a lot like a scaled up classmate pc. wondered about that.
<ogra_cmpc> there is nothing public yet i think
<hivo-cmpc> ah ok
<hivo-cmpc> I've shown the cmpc to people at my7 lug and at work. everyone just wants one :)
<hivo-cmpc> just want to know where the can buy them.
<laga> oh no
<hivo-cmpc> ogra_cmpc: I bought an extra 1GB flash disk, I'm going to purposely trash it, find out how mean write cycles these things have these days. there doesn't seem to be lots of reliable information available on it
<laga> are you guys flocking? ;)
<hivo-cmpc> laga: I prefer firefox to flock myself :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> laga, i was thinking breeding perhaps
<hivo-cmpc> laga: what are you refering to?
<Kamping_Kaiser> -cmpc
<ogra_cmpc> hivo-cmpc, -cmpc
<highvoltage> the bigger versions of us are still here :)
 * highvoltage points at ogra__ 
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<ogra_cmpc> he's sititng upstairs ... slacking again
 * Kamping_Kaiser wishes there was full sized low power laptops
<hivo-cmpc> ogra_cmpc: does the full-scale edubuntu use the same desktop wallpaper?
<ogra_cmpc> not exactly
<ogra_cmpc> but the same look
<ogra_cmpc> (the original wallpaper has the logo centered ... that looked strange on teh cmpc)
<hivo-cmpc> ah ok. I quite like it. very peaceful.
<hivo-cmpc> then again, I like dark bg's
<ogra_cmpc> i'm pondering to do the same for the big screens as well
<ogra_cmpc> but i havent had any feedback at all on hardy edubuntu yet
<hivo-cmpc> ogra_cmpc: I think it looks great thee in the bottom corner
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<hivo-cmpc> ogra_cmpc: I can have a window open and still see the edubuntu logo :)
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<ogra_cmpc> hmm
<ogra_cmpc> someone should tell rich that the cmpc has 4h of battery life
<ogra_cmpc> seems there are power outages in his area today and his HP desiced to only run 20min on one charge
<hivo-cmpc> it is actually quite impressive. I ost my charger for a while and hardly even noticed :)
<ogra_cmpc> *decided
<hivo-cmpc> ouch. HP's seem to loose their capacity quickly after a year or so
<ogra_cmpc> (i wish i could get him to do some testing)
<ogra_cmpc> my HP2000 lappie only survives 40min ... it started off with 3h once
<ogra_cmpc> but then i bought it pre edgy
<ogra_cmpc> and i'm a heavy users
<ogra_cmpc> *user
<hivo-cmpc> yes, you also travel a lot, so you probably have a lot of charge/discharge cycles
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<hivo-cmpc> ogra_cmpc: oh no, tuxpaint doesn't fit in the screen, does that mean you'll drop it?
<ogra_cmpc> err
<ogra_cmpc> is it on your image ?
<hivo-cmpc> yep
<ogra_cmpc> hmm
<ogra_cmpc> ah, wait i dropped -type
<ogra_cmpc> it should fit on the extended screen
<hivo-cmpc> the hardware feedback thingy is also on here, not sure if that should be on this image, since it would only be used on cmpc's anyway, right?
<ogra_cmpc> right, that just enetered the desktop last week
<hivo-cmpc> ah ok
<ogra_cmpc> its a new app
<hivo-cmpc> yes, it kind of fits in on the extended screen
<ogra_cmpc> it cuts off half the text at the bottom
<ogra_cmpc> but thats bearable
<hivo-cmpc> that used to be shipped by default in ubuntu previously though?
<hivo-cmpc> yes I think people will be able to live with that.
<ogra_cmpc> tuxpaint ?
<ogra_cmpc> oh, you mean the HW tool
<ogra_cmpc> no, thats new
<ogra_cmpc> its the new generation of hwdb
<hivo-cmpc> ah, it's very similar to hwdb though, or am I missing something?
<ogra_cmpc> cr3 took my gui code
<ogra_cmpc> but everything else is a new app
<ogra_cmpc> gui code == glade file
<hivo-cmpc> ok. :)
<hivo-cmpc> oh wow, it ships liferea by default!
<hivo-cmpc> is that an ubuntu default these days?
<ogra_cmpc> edubuntu
<ogra_cmpc> ah
<ogra_cmpc> fixing the tuxpaint config makes it work fine
<highvoltage> very nice. I like liferea. haven't really thought about using it in education... but I can imagine that it could have lots of value.
<ogra_cmpc> setting windowsize to 800x480 and fullscreen to true in /etc/tuxpaint/tuxpaint.conf
<highvoltage> I suspended the cmpc just now... but when I tried to wake it up, it shut down. I guess I shouldn't have hit the power button for wake-up again
<ogra_cmpc> you shouldnt have suspended :)
<ogra_cmpc> its not working yet
<ogra_cmpc> \i'm still wainting for the kernel team
<highvoltage> yeah, the suspend part seems fine, just the waking up that's the problem :)
<ogra_cmpc> right
<ogra_cmpc> there is no disk anymore after you wake up
<highvoltage> aaaaah, yes.
<ogra_cmpc> (btw rmmod button helps with the shutdown prob)
<ogra_cmpc> if button is loaded it triggers an event to shut down if you press it ... right after it woke up
<highvoltage> I guess something as simple as a sleep in the acpi scripts wouldn't fix the problem?
<ogra_cmpc> no
<ogra_cmpc> the kernel removes the USB host drivers
<ogra_cmpc> with no way to prevent that
<ogra_cmpc> so there is no disk anymore after you woke up
<highvoltage> ah, and you cand modprobe them again because there's nowhere to modprobe them from?
<ogra_cmpc> if you modprobe them they will create new devices
<ogra_cmpc> the kernel needs the old device
<ogra_cmpc> it cant handle if the sytate changed
<highvoltage> ah, that's a pity. so suspend will have to wait for intrepid then?
<highvoltage> at least the device doesn't get terribly hot. if a kid would walk around with it powered on, it wouldn't overheat. and at least there isn't a very sensitive mechanical disk either.
<highvoltage> just power consumption as the problem.
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: did the mandriva it used to ship have suspend working? how did they deal with it, if so?
<highvoltage> (brb)
<ogra_cmpc> they used a 2.4 kernel
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: any reason cmpc usb disk can't use GRUB?
<ogra_cmpc_> it does
<ogra_cmpc_> or didnt you boot ?
<ogra_cmpc_> oh, you mean the installer ?
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: yep
<ogra_cmpc_> grub cant be installed to loop devices without bad hacking
<highvoltage> aah
<ogra_cmpc_> so i had to resort to syslinux for the installed image
<ogra_cmpc_> the installed system uses grub though
<highvoltage> I installed grub to a usb disk last weekend, and it wasn't that bad, but I had to make a few minor tweaks by hand.
<ogra_cmpc_> and i plan to fix grub in intrepid or at least add such functionallity
<ogra_cmpc_> there is no USB disk
<highvoltage> I mean, the external flash disk
<ogra_cmpc_> its an image thats loop mounted on a build server
<ogra_cmpc_> if you actually have a device its no prob
<highvoltage> ah, I understand now.
<highvoltage> sorry, I had bread for lunch, turns me into a zombie :)
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc_: plug an external HDD on your server, then dd it to the image once the install process is done :)
<ogra_cmpc_> stgraber, i wont run to london every night to plug in a HD to  a server in the datacenter ... thats nothing my salary covers (yet)
<ogra_cmpc_> :)
<ogra_cmpc_> syslinux is fine for now
<ogra_cmpc_> its for the installer only anyway ...
<ogra_cmpc_> soren has some really weird hacks to make his jeos images bootable with grub
<ogra_cmpc_> i could have used that, but the code scared me
<ogra_cmpc_> (he's assembling the stage2 of grub by dd'ing pieces of the different stage iages together)
<ogra_cmpc_> *images
<stgraber> scary
<ogra_cmpc_> three bytes from here, five from there ...
<ogra_cmpc_> well, he actually does the same thing grub does ... but in shell
<stgraber> I don't like things that play with MBR anyway :)
<ogra_cmpc_> well, its images ...
<ogra_cmpc_> not as critical as real HDs
<stgraber> well, if that was to be run in a VM, no problem but here you boot it on real HW (soren doesn't) so if you are lucky it reads the flash and eventually break it but couldn't it do the same to the HDD too ? :)
<ogra_cmpc> stgraber, you have to dd the image to an external flash disk/usb key  ... indeed if the mbr of the image wouldnt work you could not boot from the device but the device wouldnt become unusable ... the installer thatthen runs does a normal grub install to the target device (internal classmate flash or another usb key)
 * ogra_cmpc fiddles with https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HardyClassroomServer
<nixternal> ogra: is the add-on CD working? as in, I can go ahead and make some screenshots of it in action?
<ogra> there are two bugs in the menu ... Light desktop is still listed as well as teacher tools
<nixternal> ok
<ogra> both will have to vanish but my bugfix didnt work right
<nixternal> I am trying to find the images used in the 2nd ed. book, nobody has the book though :)
<ogra> beyond that it wont change
<ogra> if you run into cbx33, he might have a copy of the original doc
<highvoltage> ogra: http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/19/classmate-pc-hits-store-shelves-in-philippines-as-neo-explore-x1/
<highvoltage> not sure if you've seen that yet :)
<ogra> nope
<ogra> 16,998 ?
<ogra> they said it would be a hundret only !
<ogra> :)
<ogra> 16,998 Philippine pesos is about $408 US dollars
 * ogra shakes head
<ogra> ah, it comews with XP
<ogra> that explains a bit of the price at least
<highvoltage> ah, that must be where the R308 went to
<highvoltage> $308, even
<highvoltage> ogra: you should mail those guys and tell them they can sell it with edubuntu instead of an operating system that's going to be EOL'd one of these days.
<ogra> i doubt MS will EOL it
<ogra> vista adoption is to bad ...
<ogra> they will surely extend
<highvoltage> yes, I think they'll have to extend too, otherwise they'll lose even more users to OSX and Ubuntu.
<highvoltage> (which they ultimately will :) )
<ogra> anyway indeed :)
<highvoltage> I installed Windows Vista today for the first time. I don't think it's /that/ incredibly bad. but it's nothing exciting. it's really just an updated Windows XP, but just much more resource intensive for no apparent reason.
<highvoltage> I was thinking "wow! is this really the best a multibillion dollar corporation could come up in 6 years of development!?"
<highvoltage> I think we've gotten so used to the fast paced development in the various linux distributions that we expect it in other systems too.
<ogra> heh, well, apple manages that
<highvoltage> in some ways, it's good that we're wrong about that, but I suppose competition is good too.
<highvoltage> first OSX that I've used is Leopard, when I bought my mac mini a few weeks ago
<highvoltage> I remember seeing OSX the first time a few years back, before compiz
<highvoltage> I thought that the linux guys would /never/ caught up with those nice effect
<highvoltage> now, I use the mac, and it feels *ancient*
<highvoltage> the compiz fusion effects are just so much more nicer and abundant.
<ogra> yeah
<highvoltage> and people still complain that gnome is too simple. I got frustrated with OSX's extreme simplicity, and I'm a gnome user!
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> (sorry, I'm slightly ranty tonight)
<highvoltage> edubuntu is running quite nicely on the cmpc
<highvoltage> couldn't find any real problems yet.
<ogra> well
<ogra> one of our OEM guys just tested
<ogra> first thing he did was open youtube
<ogra> since he wasnt able to get flash installed he considers it failed
<highvoltage> ah, I haven't gotten to internetty things yet.
<highvoltage> hmm, flash should be super-easy to install though? what went wrong?
<ogra> well multiverese isnt enabled by default
<ogra> ff now has a nifty hook into synaptic
<ogra> but that doesnt enable multiverse properly
<highvoltage> well, it had in gutsy already. or is this different now?
<highvoltage> ah, I see.
<ogra> oh, i just noticed my lang selector in the image has southafrican :)
<highvoltage> flash is kind of important in education. I hate to say it, but most of the commercial educational tools require adobe flash. can't wait for the gnash guys to change that :)
<highvoltage> ogra: heh, yes. I can tell you that /that/ works, at least :)
<ogra> not my work (apart from the selection gui) :)
<ogra> we have awesome translators
<highvoltage> ogra: why is brasero on this image? is it a gnome dependency now?
<highvoltage> ogra: or is it for people who plug in external optical drives?
<highvoltage> doesn't really seem neccessary.
<highvoltage> ogra: something else is also a bit weird. the Applications menu's icons look like Tango (or at least I think it's Tango) icons
<highvoltage> ogra: but the rest (like Places and System) look like Gartoon (like it should be)
<highvoltage> is this on purpose? or some strange bug?
<highvoltage> hmm, pity synaptic doesn't know that it should enable multiverse. and it's a pity that firefox says that the plugin installed successfully, even though it fails.
<highvoltage> I guess that's more work for asac then :)
<nixternal> ogra: how much has the look to LTSP stuff changed since the last chapter edit? ie. single and dual nick setup, booting process, building the ltsp file system, dhcp boot, ldm login screen, windows dhcp reservations, multiboot system in action, setting fuse preferences, thin client manager
<nixternal> changed visually that is
<ogra> not at all
<ogra> apart from the installer integration in ubuntu alternate
<nixternal> awesome!
<nixternal> dude, you just so saved my life
<nixternal> ya, I am so excited I can't even talk right :)
<ogra> the book was for gutsy, right ?
<highvoltage> nixternal: cool :)
<ogra> (the original one you refer to)
<nixternal> ya
<ogra> ok
<highvoltage> g'night nixternal and ogra
<mvo> highvolt1ge: hm, apturl has a mechnaism to tell it what component of the archive a package comes from
<ogra> mvo, that hung heavily here
<ogra> with multiverse in the default sources.list it seems to work though
<nixternal> ogra: with the add-on CD, will Ubuntu/Kubuntu or whatever *buntu recognize it as an add-on and take off, or is there something funky you need to do?
<stgraber> nixternal, ogra: hmm, we no longer have tcm as it was replaced by italc. Not sure how visual that's
<nixternal> I am reinstalling Ubuntu in vbox to give the add-on cd a try
<ogra> nixternal, all non ubuntu variants will need net access
<nixternal> so only Ubuntu then
<ogra> yeah
<nixternal> Kubuntu, Gobuntu, and Xubuntu need to install edubuntu-desktop?
<ogra> stgraber, that should go into the release notes
<ogra> nixternal, same as ubuntu, but the dpes for doing a networkless install from the addon are computed against the ubuntu CD only
<ogra> *deps
<nixternal> ok
<ogra> so all others need net access to pull the necessary libs
<nixternal> correct, is edubuntu-desktop still the main meta pkg?
<ogra> yes
<nixternal> groovy
 * nixternal thinks UED 8.10 should be KDE 4 with all of the new KDE Edu apps
<nixternal> I have been playing around with the KDE 4 Edu apps on my trunk/ dev box for KDE 4
<nixternal> good stuff
<nixternal> I have made many pretty flowers with KTurtle :p
<RichEd> ogra: you around ?
<RichEd> ogra__:
<ogra> RichEd, busy with beta
<ogra> RichEd, the classmate has a 4h battery btw
<RichEd> great
<ogra> you could have survived a while on it
<RichEd> i've had a pretty awful day along with the rest of cape town
<RichEd> 2.5 hours outage yesterday afternoon
<RichEd> outage again this morning ... jane wasn't well but decided to drag herself into work ...
<ogra> you should buy some solar panels
<ogra> you have a lot sun down there
<RichEd> she was home 20 mins later saying the roads were blocked solid everywhere
<RichEd> turns out a truck lost a container (shipping size) going over a bridge and that landed on a car
<RichEd> 2 women sqaushed and trapped inside
<RichEd> so the main aterial road crossing from anywhere to anywhere in cape town was shut from 6:30am to 1:00pm
<RichEd> and as a result, people were up to 5 hours late for work ... with all the back-up traffic consequences ... so then you add dead (powerless) traffic lights ...
<ogra> oh fun
<ogra> in case you havent seen it: http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/19/classmate-pc-hits-store-shelves-in-philippines-as-neo-explore-x1/
<RichEd> so that's why i wasn't at the meeting ... i had 4 hours in the car ... baking sun ... grumpy fellow drivers ... and accomplished exactly 2 things ... which in the normal world would have taken 3 hours tops
<RichEd> but took instead the whole $*& day
<ogra> we didnt hold a meeting
<RichEd> </endbitch>
<RichEd> ?
<RichEd> no-one around ?
<ogra> well, i'm busy with beta stuff and it wasnt on the schedule anyway ... nobody showed up or pinged so i left it slip
<ogra> working on an install doc https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HardyClassroomServer
<RichEd> ^ well that's what the main topic i wanted to discuss ... prompted by LaserJock
<RichEd> he was worried there was no install doc, so i said this week's meeting should focus on docs for hardy
<RichEd> so if you get the install doc done, then you and i and LaserJock can chat during the week to see what else is missing or needs revision
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser was talking about some docs he wanted to write
<ogra> right, i'll flesh that out more
<ogra> but essentially thats what you need to do
<RichEd> great ... a wiki list would be good ... i'll start a shell page now
<ogra> (to get a classromm server)
<RichEd> then you can add your doc, with a short description, and list what else comes to mind in terms of * new required or * existing to be revised
<RichEd> ? classroom server ?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> thats what we called the CD in former releases
<ogra> so edubuntu with LTSP and italc == classroom server
<RichEd> ahhh
<RichEd> is clasroom server an absolute requirement or can the iTalc manager run on a edubuntu workstation ?
<stgraber> RichEd: you can run iTalc on a Windows workstation to control an Edubuntu network made of classmate if you like
<stgraber> RichEd: though you'll have to add your "clients" manually (get their IPs and add them to iTalc)
<ogra> its cross platform and works on any kind of client
<ogra> that was the main reason to pick it
<RichEd> stgraber: excellent ... some of the schools in the developing countries would not really have a full network with servers
<stgraber> RichEd: My LTSP specific change to iTalc is that in a LTSP environment it'll automatically generate a LTSP classroom containing all the thin clients
<RichEd> stgraber: well as for the manual add, does it "discover"machines it can see on a network, or do you need to add IP for it to see them
<stgraber> you need to add the IPs, iTalc doesn't have avahi support or similar stuff
<RichEd> so is there any tool / utility (gui preferably) that we have by default or in main that would run through a network range looking for responses ?
<RichEd> ogra: ^ ?
<stgraber> nmap but that's CLI and not really user friendly :)
<ogra> i think the gnome network test tool has something
<johnny> zenmap
<johnny> nmap has a nicer gui option now
 * RichEd checks out the gnome option
<ogra> hmm, no you cant scan a range with it
<RichEd> was about to come to the same conclusion
<RichEd> i'll check add/remove with a search ...
<johnny> i forget what it is called in ubuntu
<johnny> t he package for nmap gui
<ogra> well, nmapfe
<johnny> yes.. nmapfe
<johnny> it looks even prettier now
<ogra> its scary for normal people
<ogra> way to overloaded
<johnny> hmm.. then just print it out in zenity? from nmap cli?
<RichEd> something light and simple ... then we can add a section to our italc doc (or wiki page) on how to find the IPs from one place (teacher workstation) and then copy / paste into iTalc
<ogra> hmm, and nmapfe doesnt have a .desktop file it seems
<ogra> so it doesnt show up in g-a-i
<johnny> that's a change from before
<RichEd> nmapfe appears in my add/remove
<ogra> it doesnt in my hardy
<ogra> and apt-cache only knows nmap
<ogra> but no nmapfe
<RichEd> kswitch *may* help ...
 * ogra never heard of it
<ogra> oh
<RichEd> damn ... can't copy from the add/remove description
<stgraber> (10:35:11 PM) Tobias Doerffel:   a plugin-arch. is already in development
<stgraber> (10:35:17 PM) Tobias Doerffel:   one kind of plugins will be client-import-plugins
<stgraber> (10:35:58 PM) Tobias Doerffel:   there could be plugins for LDAP, YP and network-scan
<ogra> its called zenmap now apparently
 * RichEd head off to the web link
<RichEd> heads
<johnny> that's what i said :) zenap :)
<johnny> zenmap*
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> nontheless its not in g-a-i
<ogra> that needs fixing if we wantr to recommend it
<RichEd> are there any commandline utils / commands ?
<ogra> nmap
<johnny> well you could build a zenity dialog?
<johnny> based on the results
<ogra> nah
<ogra> we're in beta
<johnny> beta is for dorks
<RichEd> command line is okay 'cos then they can pipe input to a text doc
<johnny> alpha FTW
<johnny> hehe
<RichEd> and then work there way through that
<RichEd> we just need to write a recipe level instruction ...
<RichEd> or a script they can copy & paste into a terminal
<stgraber> RichEd: I probably can write a script which you give your network and network mask and it'll generate iTalc's config
<stgraber> RichEd: I do that for LTSP, the only difference is that I'll need to use nmap's output instead of my current "ps aux"
<ogra> actually just ping -b -c1 <net address> should suffice
 * LaserJock comes back to his computer
<RichEd> LaserJock: never realised that you actuall step away from it :)
<RichEd> *actually
<RichEd> stgraber: well if you could do that, then "most excellent"
<RichEd> you know the iTalc side of it, so you could mesh the output / input instructions best
 * RichEd heads off to get that wiki page for doc started ... and will add the instructions to the list with an outline and a suitable name
<RichEd> back in a bit
<RichEd> oh LaserJock scrollback to see what ogra and i just chatted about ...
<RichEd> he's busy with an installdoc for hardy server :)
<RichEd> and i'm making a wiki page for you to add any other docs you think we need to create or revise/update
<RichEd> back in a short while with the URL
<ogra> no, i'm busy weith beta stuff and classmate  :)
<ogra> not thye time for docs for me actually
<LaserJock> stgraber: we have no doc on iTalic, do you think  you could work up some stuff?
<RichEd> you just said this a few lines ago:
<RichEd> <ogra> working on an install doc https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HardyClassroomServer
<RichEd> ??
<ogra> yes i started that
<ogra> i dont have time to work on docs on beat day
<ogra> *beta as well :P
<LaserJock> ogra: have the system requirements changed since gutsy?
<ogra> yes
<stgraber> ogra, RichEd: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f18309f65
<ogra> LaserJock, "to install an edubuntu desktop you need 1G of spare diskspace"
<ogra> ;)
<stgraber> just call it with something like : sh run-italc 172.16.0.0/21
<LaserJock> ogra: but what about the LTSP part?
<LaserJock> and thin client specs?
<stgraber> it'll scan the range and generate the xml
<ogra> still the same
<LaserJock> k
<ogra> LTSP is in ubuntu though
<LaserJock> we have to document it though, regardless of where it is
<ogra> we dont have to care for it in edubuntu :)
<ogra> right, but the docs should belong to ubuntu
<LaserJock> no, we *have* to care because nobody else will
<LaserJock> but they don't and that can't be changed for Hardy
<LaserJock> the Edubuntu Handbook is still the only shippable doc that has LTSP info
<ogra> LaserJock, the above wikipage RichEd pasted describes the process loosely
<LaserJock> well, I see a couple options
<LaserJock> 1) fix up the Edubuntu handbook and get it updated like now
<LaserJock> 2) don't ship  the handbook and rely on www.edubuntu.org pages for installation/help
<LaserJock> personally I don't think we can really do 1) unless several people have some newly found free time
<pygi> the Edubuntu handbook, as I already said number of times, isn't really where people want to work
<LaserJock> pygi: yes, we are aware of that :-)
<LaserJock> a decision needs to be made though
<LaserJock> ogra: what do you think?
<LaserJock> RichEd: ?
<RichEd> LaserJock: i'll make that page ... about to create one with this URL
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Documentation/HardyRequirements
<ogra> we have it on the web anyway
<RichEd> then i'll add the install doc for server
<RichEd> one for workstation
<LaserJock> ok, but are we going to do 1) or 2) ?
<RichEd> (just an outline)
<RichEd> LaserJock: getting it right online I think is goal #1
<ogra> LaserJock, why would you rip it out ?
<LaserJock> ogra: because it's wrong!
<ogra> is it ?
<LaserJock> we can't ship gutsy docs in hardy
<LaserJock> yes, it is
<RichEd> then the compendium can come afterwards, assembled from the individual pages
<ogra> well, but the configuration of ltsp servers for example hasnt changed
<LaserJock> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<ogra> the majority of stuff is very likely still valid
<RichEd> so then if we go the online route, then it is easy to copy & paste into a wiki page the gutsy sections that still are valid
<LaserJock> so we need to do s/TCM/iTalic/, rewrite chapter 2 and parts of chapter 1
<RichEd> and comment on the ones that need revising
<RichEd> and then we can tackle those piecemeal and independently
<ogra> LaserJock, ok, drop it
<ogra> i dont see anyone doing that
<RichEd> ogra: you mean updating ?
<RichEd> or revising from gutsy to hardy >
<ogra> thats the same sadly
<ogra> its more than we can afford to update it ... rewriting whole chapters is just a bit much
<ogra> so dumpi9ng it from the install is the best option
<ogra> then we can update the online version independently from the release cycle
<RichEd> if it is not on the install, sobeit ... let's get an online revision moving, then at least as a live resource, it will improve
<RichEd> the ship doc is static and frozen
<ogra> which was fine when someone kept it up to date
 * RichEd gets a list started as a first step forward, which seems more productive than a circular debate here about the sad state of affairs
<RichEd> then at least the list will outline *how sad it is and *where it is sad ... and then we can chew smaller pieces rather than try to swallow the whole thing
<LaserJock> ogra: ok then, when Beta is over I'll upload a new edubuntu-docs that will keep the current source, but the binary will only install the "About Edubuntu"
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> saldy scottie is busy with RL
<LaserJock> yeah, common problem :/
<LaserJock> I think we should really focus our doc efforts on www.edubuntu.org
<ogra> well, he vainshed for four months off the face of the earth
<ogra> just turned up again recently
<LaserJock> develop stuff in the wiki and then migrate them over to www.edubuntu.org when "release ready"
<ogra> yeah
 * RichEd nods
<RichEd> in agreement and sleepiness
<RichEd> ogra:
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Documentation/HardyRequirements
<RichEd> go mad ... add docs you think we need
<RichEd> existing docs that need refreshing
<RichEd> and there is a section to make comments on the handbook
<RichEd> please add the doc(s) you know scotty is busy with
 * RichEd heads to bed
<RichEd> night all
<LaserJock> cya RichEd
#edubuntu 2008-03-20
<kickino> hello
<kickino> I've got a question because of "Ordering". There is conference for child in the end of April. And we would like to share some of the Edununtu CDs at our stall there. But I don't know if we can get some CDs in the short of time. :(
<kickino> Somebody there who can help me in this point?
<Kamping_Kaiser> did someone ping? i notice a highlight on this channel
<Kamping_Kaiser> kickino, if you request a custom shipit order, and give them the details of why you want them and how soon, they may be able to help you
<kickino> Okay, I'll have a try.
<kickino> But is it possible to get some CDs of my "local Ubuntu/Edubuntu"-group in the near? How can I figure out where the "next group" is? Maybe they can help me, too, and have got some CDs also?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm not sure i follow your question
<highvoltage> kickino: usually a loco team is a national team. where are you from?
<highvoltage> kickino: you should certainly be able to get into contact with your loco team and ask them to order some extra discs for you
<kickino> Germany
<kickino> highvoltage: Where can I find some information about my nationalteam?
<ogra> kickino, just hang around here, juliux will likely show up during the day, he's deeply involved with the german LOCO and the ubuntu e.V.
<kickino> ah. Nice, I'll wait for him. :-)
<ogra> where in germany do you sit ?
<highvoltage> kickino: there's also a german loco channel, which is quite large, at #ubuntu-de
<kickino> ogra: Middle of Germany. Thueringia :)
<kickino> highvoltage: oh. heh. I tried #edubuntu-de and this is quite small :)
 * ogra waves from hesse
<kickino> ogra: hehe :)
<juliux> RichEd, ping
<RichEd> hi juliux
<juliux> RichEd, do you know if there are some edubuntu 7.10 cds left?
<highvoltage> yay, tomorrow is a public holiday \o/ \o/ \o/
 * highvoltage didn't know
<Kamping_Kaiser> :D
<juliux> highvoltage, lol
<juliux> highvoltage, in germany monday is also a public holiday;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> one day at a time :)
<highvoltage> juliux: here too!
<laga> highvoltage: i didn't know either, so i gotta buy some food
<highvoltage> but I knew that. so the added bonus of tomorrow just compounded the goodness of it ^_^
<RichEd> juliux: yes ... how many do you need ?
<RichEd> you can mail marilize@canonical.com
<RichEd> highvoltage: you didn't know it was easter friday ?
<RichEd> and monday is off as well
<Kamping_Kaiser> \o/ :)
 * laga wonders about saturday
<ogra> RichEd, did you come around to test a cmpc install yet ?
<RichEd> not sure if it's because of that whole nailing that guy to a tree, or lobbying from the chocolate cartels
<RichEd> ogra: on the today list i'm afraid
<ogra> oki
<RichEd> last few days have not been productive
<johnny> virtualbox users ? anybody using the e1000 driver?
<ogra> highvoltage tested already a bit :)
<highvoltage> RichEd: nope, been too busy to pay attention!
 * RichEd wonders how highvoltage missed the gazillion easter egg displays while he has been shopping
<highvoltage> RichEd: it's been a while since I went to any kind of shop :)
<ogra> shops are overrated
<highvoltage> RichEd: and I use privoxy to filter out ads on the Internet
<highvoltage> RichEd: and google to filter out my spam
<RichEd> ogra: i went in good faith to get a second 2GB USB yesterday ... and the traffic choas put a spanner in the works
<highvoltage> RichEd: and I mentally block out other people in the office when it sounds like they're talking about boring stuff.
<ogra> ah
 * RichEd wonders if i can do a USB to USB copy ? classmate to notebook ?
<ogra> RichEd, you can install to external devices, not sure i told you ... so you dont need to wipe the existing install
<highvoltage> RichEd: are you going away for the weekend. maybe we should have coffee some time. maybe some time during next week too.
<RichEd> ogra: ^ can i do USB-USB ? i.e. boot with new image on the USB stick and do the copy from classmate to notebook using a straight USB to USB cable ?
<ogra> after you installed, yes
<highvoltage> ogra: wouldn't it be easy to back up his current install to an installer disk using squashfs? haven't thought it through... but it could be a nice backup mechanism, don't you think?
<highvoltage> ogra: usb to usb? how would that be done?
<highvoltage> (between two notebooks)
<ogra> well, you need two external devices for that
<RichEd> highvoltage: not sure it can be done ... was spec-u-lating
<highvoltage> ok, I thought RichEd meant directly from classmate to notebook
<ogra> you boot from one, then dd the internal one to the spare external one
 * ogra wonders why RichEd has *anything* on that crufty gutsy install thats worth keeping at all
<ogra> acrually i think /home was separate on  the gutsy image already, should suffice to save the files from there
<highvoltage> ogra: maybe he's sentimental? :)
<RichEd> i had limited storage and backup space ... and not enough free time for clear headspace to juggle
<RichEd> will move to the 8.04 beta
<ogra> according to highvoltage even the za translations work fine :)
<highvoltage> za-english, at least!
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> we dont ship any others :)
<highvoltage> which I think is just english-uk with a few extra words :)
<highvoltage> but yes, it works.
<highvoltage> really!? wow, I didn't realise that.
<ogra> (its in there only by accident actually, because its part of teh -en langpack)
<RichEd> highvoltage: it works ! bevok !
<highvoltage> RichEd: heh
<highvoltage> RichEd: it's actually spelt with an "f", but I think it's better that you spell it wrong, we don't want to learn the channel any nasty words :)
<RichEd> ogra: did you see the /msg ? or are you on the small screen ?
<ogra> i am on the small screen since 6 weeks (and didnt touch any other in that time), i see your message though
<ogra> you dont see mine ?
<ogra> i thought i registered
<ogra> RichEd, see me now ?
<neopsyche_> wifi card need to setup as AP.. anyone?
<juliux> whole sentence?
<laga> heh, how ironic.
<highvoltage> neopsyche_: I think I've seen howto's for that on the wiki
<highvoltage> can't remember where though.
<juliux> laga, yes
<juliux> neopsyche_, http://wiki.ubuntubrasil.org/LinuxAccessPoint
<neopsyche_> juliux, thanks
<dtrask> morning all!  (at least it's morning here)
<stgraber> hi dtrask
 * dtrask is offering FREE snow to anyone who wants it....we have plenty here
<Kamping_Kaiser> the new edubuntu artwork is fairly :o
<Kamping_Kaiser> dtrask, a few days i'd have taken some
<stgraber> dtrask: no thanks, I already have enough here :)
<dtrask> Kamping_Kaiser: We'll be skiing into August here in Maine ;-)
<dtrask> little worried about flooding though....hope we can just "melt" without the assistance of rain ;-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> dtrask, :o
 * Kamping_Kaiser finds the whole snow thing quiet novel
<dtrask> You'll like this....I'm sitting in my classroom...typing on my System76 laptop (Darter 2) which comes preloaded with Ubuntu while watching my students use a Smartboard attached to Edubuntu as well as using their Edubuntu thin-clients...they are 1st graders 6 year olds working on changing fonts and stuff in OpenOffice....pretty cool
 * laga is afraid that those 1st graders at openoffice than him
 * laga adds "are better".
 * Kamping_Kaiser notices the hardware tool available in applications -> system tools doesnt seem to offer a way to make a launchpad account. (i also think it shouldnt be in applications, but thats just me)
<Nubae> hey, has anyone tried out the elonex laptop with edubuntu?
<Nubae> http://www.elonexone.co.uk/
<Nubae> looks like a really nice thin terminal option for kids, at the price its selling it (99 pounds) seems even better than the eee pc or classmate
<Nubae> but maybe its not powerful enough
<Nubae> It has a LNX Code 8 mobile 300mhz processor and 128 meg ram
<ogra_cmpc> ah, the brick
 * ogra_cmpc wouldnt want one
<Nubae> the brick? :-)
<ogra_cmpc> it looks like a brick with all the electronics in the lid instead of the base
<Kamping_Kaiser> websites nicely broken
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra_cmpc, its an odd look for sure
<ogra_cmpc> and given the specs i think it doesnt behave much differently to a brick
<Nubae> I've currently been tasked with setting up the servers for Open learning exchange Nepal, for their pilot projects, I'm looking at all the alternatives to the OLPC XO
<Nubae> Ubuntu seems keen on using classmates, any particular reason?
<ogra_cmpc> the olpc (even i dont like the HWS at all)  will be heaps better that this thing
<ogra_cmpc> it wouldnt even make a nice thin client
<Nubae> yeah OLE nepal has 200 of them, but for older kids I'm not convinced its the best choice
<ogra_cmpc> get a classmate or eeepc
<Kamping_Kaiser> Nubae, i'm with you there
<Kamping_Kaiser> all those things have micro keyboards :(
<ogra_cmpc> micro keyboards rule
<Nubae> there is also the ECS G10 coming out
<ogra_cmpc> you get used to it pretty fast
<Nubae> 10 inch screen and 8 hour battery life
 * ogra_cmpc at least
<Nubae> the field is transforming so quick not sure what to focus on... but for now its the XO laptop cause of the durability and mesh neworking
 * Kamping_Kaiser hates small keyboards
 * ogra_cmpc did as well until he got his first classmate
<ogra_cmpc> today my prob is rather that i feel lost on my normal one
<ogra_cmpc> you have to move your hands so much
<Nubae> so ogra, how does it compare to an XO?
<ogra_cmpc> classmate
<Nubae> yeah
<ogra_cmpc> way beyond
<Kamping_Kaiser> i have an xo, and i've used classmates. just cant like it when i spend so much time on real keyboards
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: you also do less typing mistake than with the cmpc :)
<ogra_cmpc> like i always like to say: classmate == cut down laptop, OLPC == pimped mobilephone
<ogra_cmpc> stgraber, yeah, i just often hit the caps key
<ogra_cmpc> thats a bit badly placed
<Nubae> k, so its really about speed?
<ogra_cmpc> and i'm missing my right shift
<ogra_cmpc> Nubae, its abut usage ... OLPC will still need a year or so to even get a handfull usable apps running ... and even then they will be sluggish
<Nubae> I now have to convince them to drop Fedora on the server and not build a gui from scratch a la ebox
<Nubae> yeah so, u think classmate is best option at the moment for older kids?
<ogra_cmpc> eeepc is the best opiton imho ... that will change with the next gen classmate which is already in the works though
<Nubae> eeepc is more expensive though isn't it?
<ogra_cmpc> no idea what the eee costs atm
<Nubae> the new one looks very nice eeepc 900
<Nubae> but read the cost would be 499 dollars
<Nubae> which seems high
<ogra_cmpc> classmate was supposed to go out for 200 something
<ogra_cmpc> but what i've seen so far was rather near 400
<Nubae> can one use ip6 instead of dhcp with pxe to hand out images?
<dtrask> ogra_cmpc: at that price where's the advantage of the cmpc over the eeepc?
<ogra_cmpc> dtrask, no idea, i'm not intel
<ogra_cmpc> oh, btw
<ogra_cmpc> dtrask, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/classmate/images/hardy/
<Nubae> so each server they want running at the schools (ole nepal this is) should run moodle, dansguardian, dhcp for the mesh networks and squid. My first thought was to install webmin, but maybe ebox would be better
<ogra_cmpc> ebox is quite cool
<Nubae> just that later on down the line has to be really easy to maintain by local nepali sysadmins/teachers
<Nubae> I've taken a look at ebox, can one take out features relatively easily?
<ogra_cmpc> ask in #ubuntu-server they maintain ebox
<Nubae> oh, cool, will do
<dtrask> ogra_cmpc: Thanks....I'll give it a shot later
<ogra_cmpc> good
<ogra_cmpc> note that it will wipe the device (and it might need a reinstall, i'm still fiddling wiht the best partition setup)
<Nubae> its a good excuse for them to move from Fedora too ;-) I really want them to use debian or Ubuntu, but they're using fedora on the latops so don't know how easy it will be to convince them
<ogra_cmpc> but its reasonably faster than gutsy wqas
<ogra_cmpc> Nubae, just give them some ubuntu CDs and let them experience the difference
 * dtrask steps away to teach spreadsheets to 3rd graders on Edubuntu thin-clients  ;-)   will check my screen as often as I can
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<Nubae> do you know anyone using wireless thin clients?
<ogra_cmpc> thats not possible
<Nubae> not at all?
<ogra_cmpc> WLAn has nothing like PXE
<ogra_cmpc> you can build something that boots from a local flash disk or so ... but netbooting wont work
<stgraber> you would need a kernel and initrd installed on the client (flash memory ?) and then some kind of update script checking kernel's version with the one on the server at every boot
<stgraber> + add the wireless tools to the initrd
<ogra_cmpc> right
<ogra_cmpc> including essid and key
<dtrask> somehow you need to boot the device (even minimally) to load the wireless...right?  I think some are doing something they call wireless thin clients, but they are not TRULY thin...they have something like flash memory to at least get the wireless up
<stgraber> I started working on some kind of wireless thin clients a while back but haven't had time to get something working
<Nubae> sounds interesting, certainly an alernative to running every client 'fat'
<stgraber> I basically just did the kernel+initrd version checker
<dtrask> koolu has some
<dtrask> koolu.com I think
<Nubae> and after that, software installation, home access, application usage happens remote?
<stgraber> my idea was to get rid of the DHCP+PXE and just emulate it, so every boot the initrd checks the version of kernel and initrd on the server (using tftp-client) if they match it boots the same way a standard thin client would, otherwise it updates the local kernel+initrd and reboot
<ogra_cmpc> cool
<stgraber> once you have a way to boot the initrd with wifi support and with the same kernel version as the server, you can just boot as any other thin client
<stgraber> the main problem then is the wireless network itself
<stgraber> you'd need something of really fast or a lot of AP to have thin clients on wireless
<Nubae> or mesh networking
<Nubae> on olpc all the laptops run in adhoc mode, even when turned off
<stgraber> something that can give all clients 1MB/s (watching youtube) would be good but the APs I have at school can only gives like 2-3MB/s for all clients ...
<Nubae> bit individual connections are low bandwidth (11mb I believe)
<stgraber> Nubae: yes, I tried one of those, not sure of how fast the network can be though
<Nubae> well since the bandiwdth is shared across the mesh its probably faster than using individual APs
<Nubae> interesting stuff for sure
<memolibre> buenos dias
<memolibre> como puedo adquirir una invitaciÃ³n en el canal de edubuntu-es
<memolibre> hello
<memolibre> as I can acquire an invitation in the channel of edubuntu-is
<joebake1> If you Ubuntu doesn't fix pulseaudio so that voip clients can work in 8.04 there will be mass defections from Ubuntu and it's derivatives.  Please send the message on.
<joebake1> I think all that's necessary is to upgrade to the latest gstreamer.
<neopsyche_> is there any way i can check who banned me on ubuntu?
<laga> joebake1: filing a bug report in launchpad and/or giving out the bug id in your message might be better..
<highvoltage> neopsyche_: yes, you can as on #ubuntu-ops
<dasKreech> RichEd: ping :)
<RichEd> dasKreech: pong
<RichEd> not officially here ... family time ... can chat for a min
<dasKreech> RichEd: I was asking if annma was invited to UDS ?
<RichEd> i'll check with ogra_cmpc ... he mentioned today that there was a free spot he thought should go to her
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd, well, anna isnt really dev ... she should go under edu
<ogra_cmpc> thats actually wy i mentioned it :)
<ogra_cmpc> anyway, nobody in the office anymore and its unlikely that someone is tehre over easter
<ogra_cmpc> so we cant discuss it anyway atm
<RichEd> i'll have to run it past my boss then ... ogra_cmpc you mentioned a dev cancellation in the same discussion, i thought that was the subs plan
<ogra_cmpc> right, we have one dev less
<RichEd> well i'm ducking out of here ... ogra_cmpc picked up a 2nd 2GB USB on the way out this evening
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd, seen your mail ?
<RichEd> so i'll be trying to back-up the old image and get the new one on
<RichEd> glanced at it ... lemme check
<ogra_cmpc> wrt classmate ... i9mages etc
<dasKreech> RichEd, ogra_cmpc: So .. maybe? :-)
<ogra_cmpc> dasKreech, thats not in our hands, we only can suggest ... its already pretty late ...
<dasKreech> ok
<dasKreech> so speed would be key?
<ogra_cmpc> so i fear to say maybe
<ogra_cmpc> well, speed still means we can only forward it to people in the office  ... its easter
<ogra_cmpc> there wont be anyone before tuesday i assume
 * dasKreech *looks over at the calendar*
<zamba> when chosing the standalone workstation installation.. how does this method interact with a server in the network? the thin client installation is of course fully dependant on it, but how does the standalone installation interact? i'm thinking package updates and shared user databases and file systems
<zamba> and is it possible to create a mixed and seamless network consisting of a single server and both thin clients and standalone workstations?
<dasKreech> Edubuntu is now a addon Cd to Ubuntu?
<zamba> it's its own distro
<zamba> i believe
<ogra_cmpc> that changed in hardy
<ogra_cmpc> the standalone workstation install is as the name says for a standalone workstation :)
<RichEd> dasKreech: the best way to describe it is that it is an educational environment which is installed on top of an ubuntu system
<RichEd> workstation or server
<dasKreech> How about a Kubuntu System?
<RichEd> could be if you bend it a bit
<RichEd> ubuntu is the base
<ogra_cmpc> works as well, but you need a network connection, the cd is built against the ubuntu CD so it needs some libraries kubuntu doesnt have
<dasKreech> ah ok that should be fine
<dasKreech> is there still a edubuntu-desktop-kde ?
<ogra_cmpc> it just wont work non networked which we guarantee for ubuntu based systems
<zamba> ogra_cmpc: so if you want a workstation that still should be able to interact with the server, then how? :)
<ogra_cmpc> zamba, no, its a standalone sytem i.e. for a home desktop ..
<zamba> ogra_cmpc: so the only customization for educational environments with a quite a few networked computers is the thin client solution?
<ogra_cmpc> you can indeed set up everything as you like but its not different from an ubuntu desktop install apart from artwork and application selection
<zamba> ogra_cmpc: yeah, but i was more looking for the out-of-the-box solution :)
<zamba> with ldap database, samba and/or nfs and the like
<ogra_cmpc> with hardy edubuntu was integrated into ubuntu completely, the ressources we have for such stuff are now bound in the server team for things like LDAP samba etc
<ogra_cmpc> so the apps get maintained whener the biggest expertise is
<ogra_cmpc> *where
<zamba> ok
<ogra_cmpc> i think they provide a ssamba out of the box install ...
<zamba> how does this relate to debianedu?
<ogra_cmpc> not sure about the ldap and directory server stuff
<ogra_cmpc> that might be not there yet
<ogra_cmpc> most of the new ltsp was developed hand in hand by me, one upstream dev and one of the debian edu devs
<ogra_cmpc> we're working closely together inb that area ...
<zamba> ah, cool
<ogra_cmpc> wrt desktop and server implementations we do different things
<zamba> debianedu is using kde and edubuntu gnome, right?
<ogra_cmpc> right
<zamba> going to test the thin client stuff now, see how it works
<ogra_cmpc> enjoy
<zamba> i basically just need a fresh install of edubuntu and a laptop sitting on the same network as the machine, right?
<ogra_cmpc> right
<ogra_cmpc> make sure the server has two NICs
<zamba> do i need to do any configuration, or is this plug and play?
<zamba> yeah, going to put in a second now
<ogra_cmpc> that gives you the full fun of 100% out of the box ...
<zamba> after the installation is done
<dasKreech> There is a Debian EDU? :)
<zamba> indeed :)
<ogra_cmpc> with one NIC you need to adjust either the NIC IP or the shipped dhcpd.conf
<dasKreech> with KDE?
<zamba> ogra_cmpc: yeah, i know how to accomplish that, so that should be no problem :)
<ogra_cmpc> dasKreech, yup
<dasKreech> so you guys don't source from them?
<zamba> dasKreech: yeah
<zamba> kde sucks
<zamba> we hate kde
<zamba> :)
<ogra_cmpc> zamba, well, its a lot extra work you could have saved by putting it in befor installing :) but well
<ogra_cmpc> (you need to update teh sshkeys and update the image after adding the NIC and a new IP)
<dasKreech> zamba: I recall you were taking out all the kde apps from edubuntu
<zamba> dasKreech: hm?
 * dasKreech sees your hm? and raises you a uh?
<zamba> i was taking out all the kde apps from edubuntu? :)
<zamba> you can blame me for doing a lot of things, but removing all the kde apps from edubuntu wasn't really my doing :)
<dasKreech> zamba: not you personally :)
<zamba> if you by "you" mean "debianEDU", i'm not a part of that team :)
<dasKreech> zamba: No Edubuntu was removing all the KDE apps from the Edubuntu distro
<zamba> god damn typical
<zamba> basically the only thing i installed edubuntu for was to try the thin client stuff
<zamba> and what fails after 30 minutes of installation?
<zamba> oh yeah: "build ltsp chroot"
<zamba> so not very out of the box
<zamba> lol, this is fucked up
<zamba> the latest installation image doesn't work
<zamba> /etc/network/interfaces looks stupid
<dasKreech> !ohmy
<ubotu> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<zamba> sorry about that :)
<zamba> and where is the "educational software" that makes this an edcational distro? i can't see any changes from the usual ubuntu installation
<zamba> ogra_cmpc: how is this supposed to work? i see no startup scripts in /etc/init.d
<zamba> i'm issuing ltsp-build-client manually now, after getting the system booted
<zamba> and it's retrieving and validating a lot of software
<zamba> ogra_cmpc: please let me know when you're back
#edubuntu 2008-03-21
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. weird IO issue there. wonder if i can reproduce it at all
<Kamping_Kaiser> then again, perhaps its just a bug in edubuntu/this laptop
 * Kamping_Kaiser giggles. edubuntu just tried to import two of the office docs in ~/Examples
<Muhammad_Saad> Does Evolution also has plug-ins or extensions like Thunderbird? I want to get mail for my Yahoo account with Evolution like I do with Thunderbird using the WebMail extension.
<frenchy_> Hi All
<jimjimovich> Can someone point me to information about running local apps on edubuntu thin clients?  is this a feature in the current release or in 8.04?
<frenchy_> jimjimovich: I joined this channel just before you and it's my first time here.  But I'll try and answer your question.  How are your thin clients set up?
<frenchy_> i.e. What technology are you using?
<jimjimovich> frenchy_: Um, the normal way, I guess.  Edubuntu with one big server, many computers connected.
<jimjimovich> frenchy_: but we are planning to redo the entire system this summer, so changing things would be an option
<frenchy_> jimjimovich: Why don't you run the applications local?  Sorry, I'm trying to get an understanding of your requirements.
<frenchy_> i.e I'm not suggesting that you run them local.
<jimjimovich> frenchy_: I'd like to extend our system to include not only students but staff, and would need to give staff access to their local scanners/printers and we've also had problems with too many users using Firefox at once slowing down the server.  The staff have pretty powerful workstations and it'd be nice to make some use of that power
<jimjimovich> frenchy_: as to why not running everything local, it's much easier to administer one Edubuntu server than 40 Ubuntu desktops
<frenchy_> jimjimovich:  Oh, so they are already running as thin clients?
<jimjimovich> frenchy_: student lab is, but would like to extend this to staff offices
<frenchy_> jimjimovich: What are the thin clients running.
<frenchy_> ?
<frenchy_> Ubuntu?
<frenchy_> Edubuntu?
<jimjimovich> frenchy_:  Actually, most of the staff is running W2K right now.  And as their computers die from viruses, etc, we want to move them to linux. would be nice to just plug them into the Edubuntu server
<jimjimovich> frenchy_: thin clients are booting from Edubuntu server
<frenchy_> jimjimovich: Sorry, I now know what you are trying to do and haven't done this myself.  Anything that I suggest would be guesswork.  Sorry!
<frenchy_> jimjimovich: Better of getting some who's done this.
<jimjimovich> frenchy_:  I've done the network and understand that, just wondering about running apps locally.
<jimjimovich> frenchy_: thanks for trying to help!
<jimjimovich> actually, we have a full student lab running for almost 2 years with very little maintenance.  it's great
<jimjimovich> ah, I finally found some info  http://ltsp.mirrors.tds.net/pub/ltsp/docs/ltsp-4.1-en.html#AEN1683
<frenchy_> jimjimovich: No worries ... just some ideas, normally you can run a remote application via `ssh -X user@server appname`.  That might help you search something on Google.
<jimjimovich> just wondering what version of LTSP Edubuntu 8.04 will have and if it will support this
<jimjimovich> ah, great, more info if anyone is interested.  still would be interested to know what this will look like in 8.04  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients
<frenchy_> The reason I'm here is offer my services as a developer to the project.  I had a look at Edubuntu and I was disappointed with the number and the quality of the applications available.
<frenchy_> I know, I know, it's for free but if someone's got cool ideas and would like someone to implement them then please let me know.  michael.lamothe@gmail.com.
<frenchy_> I have 2 sons at ages 2.5 and 2 weeks so I have an interest in developing software for their future.  I currently have an applications in universe called Me TV (me-tv) and specialise in graphics/multimedia applications.
<wima> any ideas on how i can allow users to mount local drives without being member of the fuse group?
<wima> all users are in an ldap database, and it is a bit of a hassle to add them to this group
<johnny> puttingthem in the fuse group is a good idea.. seems like you should be able to do it with one query..
<ogra_cmpc> johnny, not really, you shoulddnt uses system groups at all in ldap since they are assigned their ID dynamically at package install time ... the IDs between the system groups differ between machines
<ogra_cmpc> ubuntu starts adding users with ID 1000  .... everything below that shouldnt be in ldap
<johnny> the fuse group should exist before ldap comes into play tho?
<stgraber> Here I have all my users in LDAP, then use /etc/security/group.conf to put the users in the right group at login time
<ogra_cmpc> right
<ogra_cmpc> you need some remapping
<johnny> aha
<johnny> there ya go wima :)
<johnny> i've never done ldap to this point
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: I'll have italc-1.0.7-0ubuntu2 ready for upload in a minute
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: I'm just test building it on i386 but as it works fine on amd64 that shouldn't be a problem
<ogra_cmpc> yeah, given that this bug was really esoteric .....
<stgraber> I also fixed the icon bug at the same time, so my UI patch changed a bit too
 * ogra_cmpc wouldnt even have thought of the possibilty that people do netinstalls of edubuntu-desktop
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: it's one of the testcase we have in the tracker :)
<ogra_cmpc> ah
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/italc/
<wima> ah thanks!
<wima> seems like a good solution
<wima> yes! it works!
<wima> add pam_group, and edited the config file
<wima> you guys are great!
<wima> lets try another one:
<wima> i want to do loadbalancing with two servers
<wima> is there another solution then having two dhcp server compete with each other?
<wima> my dhcp is on another machine
<wima> doesnt have to be automatic
<wima> selection menu is also good
<wima> better actually
<wima> is there a way i can do sth with the pxe menu?
<stgraber> there is a way to do load balancing with ldm
<stgraber> I have never used that though so I don't know much about it
<stgraber> IIRC it's a kernel parameter or a lts.conf option where you can specify a list of server server1:server2:server3 ... then they will be displayed under the login in ldm
<wima> ah, cool
<wima> that would be great
<wima> i'll see what google tells me
<wima> i fount this: http://www.mindtouchsoftware.com/blog/2007/04/30/ltsp/ but i don't know the status
<wima> i also found this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LDMLoadbalancingSupport
<wima> does anyone know if this is implemented?
<monteslu> ogra_cmpc, who's giving you a hard time dude?
<laga> ogra_cmpc: hey, don'
<laga> t let the trolls discourage you
<ogra_cmpc> monteslu, it was only the last push to make it explode ... i'm often blamed for only following canonical marketing intrests, its just that i see someone froked outr code implemented stuff that would help us a lot (16Mclients would rule) and dint contribute back because i'm there
<ogra_cmpc> we changed upstream development completely to distro independent team maintenance 6 mounths ago to prevent that... it seems not to have worked
<ogra_cmpc> i dont 2want to stand in the way of ltsp here, if me strepping beck from dev isw the only solution to get others involved i have to do that
<ogra_cmpc> *back
<monteslu> you put in a lot of work dude
<monteslu> stepping back would be bad for ltsp as a whole
<laga> yeah
<monteslu> i'm reading the dev list archives...
<monteslu> seems like shigorin is the one with the problem
<laga> without you i'd still be recreating the wheel
<ogra_cmpc> i wrote most of the inital code, yes and added many new designs ... let me sleep over it and see what the reactions on the ML are
<ogra_cmpc> currently i'm just frustrated and sad
<monteslu> alright man, thanks again for helping me out with my kid's school
<ogra_cmpc> youre welcome :)
<laga> ogra_cmpc: heh. even faust brightened up over easter, so don't worry too much ;)
<johnny> ogra_cmpc, don't leave yet :) i still need you :)
<johnny> lol
<gvy> ogra_cmpc?
<subsume> Can someone please tell me how to get the startup messages of a thin client onto the DHCP server?
<johnny> huh
<johnny> that doesn't make sense
#edubuntu 2008-03-22
<zdiaz> Hi can anybody tell me if edubuntu has built in parental controls ?
<zdiaz> hello
<zdiaz> anybody home /
<zdiaz> Edubuntu Sucks Windows ROck !!!!
<zdiaz> Now that is sure to get some attention
<pauljw> awwww... are you starving for attention?
<Nergar> hello
<Nergar> where can i download the edubuntu hardy desktop CD?
<Kamping_Kaiser> edubuntu is an addon cd for ubuntu with hardy
<Nergar> no way!
<Nergar> no longer a full distro??
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeah.
<harry_> hi, I'm migrating an office to LTSP / Gutsy but having a bit of problem, could someone please help. The LTSP server is setup, I tried connecting from my laptop and it's ok. But when it's on my friend's office, none of their computer will show the GUI. The GUI seemed to be about to come up at first, but then all went back to the console. No /var/log/ldm.log, so I'm at loss. Any idea where else I can look for clues ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> harry_, can you tell us more details?
<harry_> sure
<harry_> let's see
<harry_> stock edubuntu install really
<harry_> fully updated
<harry_> default settings
<harry_> my laptop boots to it straight away
<harry_> but these computer, they're finding the DHCP ok
<harry_> booting process alright
<harry_> then it's trying to bring up X
<harry_> then suddenly it's back to text mode
<harry_> showing the login prompt
<Kamping_Kaiser> what are the computers that dont work? age/hardware/etc
<Kamping_Kaiser> video card specifically
<harry_> these are old computers
<harry_> i810 graphics
<harry_> detected just fine by X
<harry_> what bothers me is I haven't been able to find X's error message
<harry_> so I have no idea why X failed to came up
<harry_> S3 cards
<harry_> it should be /var/log/ldm.log isn't it ?
<harry_> or am I wrong ?
<harry_> I've had this problem before actually
<Kamping_Kaiser> i havent dealt with ltsp5, so i'm not sure where it should log to. have you asked #ltsp? tell them about your video card, and ask how to enable logging to the server
<harry_> but I had some time, so I just used dapper + LTSP 4.2
<harry_> I would, but to my knowledge, LTSP5 on gutsy is 100% the product of canonical
<harry_> it's rewritten from ground up
<Kamping_Kaiser> its not ubuntu specific
<harry_> so I thought I'd ask about it here
<harry_> oh... ok
<Kamping_Kaiser> afk. dinner time
<harry_> no prob
<harry_> thanks kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> good luck, back in ~30-60
<harry_> see you then
<Kamping_Kaiser> back
<harry_> hi kaiser, welcome back. i'm discussing it now on #ltsp
<harry_> basically I've got login screen
<harry_> but it won't authenticate the user :)
<harry_> still working on that
<Kamping_Kaiser> cool :) i'll leave you in #ltsp's capable hands, rather then split the conversation
<harry_> thanks :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> gl, let me know how it goes
<harry_> hi Kaiser, I ended up using startx instead of ldm
<harry_> will troubleshoot ldm later
<harry_> gotta go
<harry_> thank you :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> later mate
<Kamping_Kaiser> well done :)
<Nergar> how do i install hardy add-on cd?
<Nergar> hello
<Kamping_Kaiser> Nergar, have you got the cd downloaded, and do you have an existing ubuntu install to add it on to?
<Nergar> i installed ubuntu hardy and i mounted edubuntu hardy but i can't install
<Nergar> Kamping_Kaiser, both ubuntu and edubuntu are beta
<Kamping_Kaiser> Nergar, i'm aware of that
<Kamping_Kaiser> when you put an edubuntu addon cd into an ubuntu hardy system it should open a few dialgue boxes - does it do that?
<Nergar> Kamping_Kaiser, only one:
<Nergar> This cd has software ready for autoexecution, do you want to execute it?
<Nergar> or something like that (ubuntu is in spanish)
<Nergar> but it fails because it can't find the autoexec software
<Kamping_Kaiser> Nergar, ok. so it does it offer to "Start addon installer"?
<Nergar> yes
<Nergar> but it fails
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm.
<Kamping_Kaiser> what cd are you using? the beta?
<Nergar> yes
<Nergar> md5 checksum is correct
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm.
<Nergar> Kamping_Kaiser, and for some reason neither feisty nor gutsy work on my pc
<N3rg4r> Kamping_Kaiser, sorry, my wireless card is faulty
<Kamping_Kaiser> no worries. i'm a bit distracted atm anyway
<N3rg4r> so what can i do? is there a manual way of installing this?
<arvind> can we use edubuntu as a live cd?
<arvind> mez,can we use edubuntu as a live cd?
<Muhammad_Saad> Can anyone tell me what this sentence means? Edubuntu is now provided as an add-on to Ubuntu instead of as a separate stand-alone flavour, permitting even greater reuse of Ubuntu technologies.
<gvy> probably "it's a CD2, not CD1 now -- go get Ubuntu as your install media"
<laga> heh
<laga> maybe it'd be clearer if whoever wrote that left out the marketing speech :)
 * gvy . o O ( that'd not be ubuntish )
 * gvy hides
<laga> heh
 * laga is cranky due to pre-easter shopping madness
<laga> so just ignore me :)
<gvy> hm, easter is full month away yet... april 27
 * laga blinks
<gvy> i think
<laga> i doubt that, they were having some good discounts on coloured eggs ;)
<gvy> but then again it's how orthodox think it is, after jewish easter (as logically it should be)...
<gvy> in states it's probably a sort of valentine's day, that is marketing event
<laga> ah, shows my ignorance. i was talking about catholic easter
<gvy> or mine. :)
<laga> heh
<alkis1> Hi, has anyone managed to correctly install italc so that the ltsp clients can be shown/managed? Ubuntu hardy/Ltsp 5.0, it currently reports "no user logged in" for the clients...
<johnny> ogra_cmpc, hey
#edubuntu 2008-03-23
<altermd> is there any problem withe the dhcp3 server and unstable version ?
<altermd> do you use xdmcp in place of ltsp ?
<altermd> bye
<neopsyche> how do i create ad-hoc internet share?
<kgoetz> neopsyche: dont join multiple channels and ask the same question
<neopsyche> kgoetz can you help me with my issue?
<kgoetz> neopsyche: no, because you didnt tell either channel what the problem *is*
<neopsyche> can you help me if i tell you what the problem is?
<pygi> well,l ol
<pygi> lol
<neopsyche> ?
<pygi> stop asking random questions, and do give us the information to help you
<pygi> we can't help you, if you don't help yourself
<neopsyche> I want to connect my laptop wifi to my main pc with internet connection using ad-hoc. I need to configure the connection on linux. how do i do that?
<laga> !ask
<ubotu> Please don't ask to ask a question, ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely answer. :-)
<pygi> first of all, what this has to do with edubuntu?
<pygi> other, it is trivial to connect to a wifi, just use nm-applet and click on the network you wanna join
<pygi> laga, thanks
<neopsyche> I am using ubuntu but cannot get into ubuntu support channel so have come here to find support.
<kgoetz> why cant you get in to #ubuntu ?
<neopsyche> pygi, im not sure what you mean.. could you please elaborate?
<pygi> neopsyche, ! there's the nm-applet tray icon
<pygi> click on it and you get the list of available wireless network!
<kgoetz> neopsyche: dont PM me please
<neopsyche> there is a button saying 'wireless networks' but if i click on it nothing happens
<kgoetz> !private message | neopsyche
<pygi> that's not a button!
<ubotu> neopsyche: Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can also benefit AND help you. Please don't PM a user in the channel without asking first, some find it rude.
<pygi> neopsyche, well, then you don't have wireless networks available!
<laga> heh
<laga> fun
<pygi> this is really kindof #ubuntu question
<pygi> please be so kind to migrate there
<pygi> in advance, thank you
<kgoetz> pygi: yes it is
<neopsyche> pygi, how can i set it up so my laptop can use the internet ?
<neopsyche> laga.. what do you mean fun?
<pygi> neopsyche, #ubuntu pls
<kgoetz> neopsyche: i got your PM. go to #ubuntu-ops and talk to them about why you were banned
<pygi> there were probably reasons why you got banned anyway
<neopsyche> kgoetz, i have tried that .. they are ignoring me and/or not doing anything.
<neopsyche> pygi, yes.. used caps / got frustrated because nobody would help with this issue I have been trying to work out for 3 days.
<neopsyche> all i want to do is use the internet on my laptop with wifi but nobody will give me a simple explanation on how to configure wifi devices for that on ubuntu.
<kgoetz> neopsyche: talk to the ops, and hope you can come to an agreement. thats all there is to it. this could be considered ban evasion
<neopsyche> I am beginning to think it is possible that many of the people on ubuntu help channels are stuck up bastards that enjoy making life difficult for noobies instead of helping.
<laga> neopsyche: you know, people don't have to help you. people choose to help you because they want to. so going all caps and evading bans and cross-posting doesn't make it more likely to get help.
<neopsyche> I know.. and I get annoyed because nobody will let it rest.. they are all still fighting with me and all i want is to sort out this issue.
<neopsyche> like right now for example.. once again.. you wont help me .. even if you know how.. you choose to make my life difficult.
<neopsyche> laga.. so you are saying I need to wait weeks for the ban to go away while I sit with no wifi internet because you dont want to help because this is 'edubuntu' and not ubuntu.
<neopsyche> cheers.. thanks for nothing.
<dev-NET> hi
<dev-NET> any body can help me
<theunixgeek_> I can't get my screen resolution over 800x600. I did the dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg thing and enabled restricted drivers, but it won't let me go to 1280x1024. Please help.
<johnny> the driver probably isn't loade
<johnny> you should go to #ubuntu
<joebake1> I recently got an Intel Centrino Dual Core based laptop.  I installed Edubuntu Server on it and added the Edubuntu-Dekstop metapackage.
<joebake1> It seems like a difficulty adding Adobe's Flash player and getting it to work on the 64 bit system.
<johnny_> yes..
<johnny_> that is known
<joebake1> Is it still easier to maintain a 32 bit system?
<johnny_> it's too much of a hassle to set it to work right on amd64
<joebake1> Thanks Johnny_
<johnny_> only cuz of flash
<johnny_> it is possible to make it work
<johnny_> but if you want it to just work. use i386
<johnny_> still and amd64 support for flash
<johnny_> no*
<johnny_> not our fault :(
<joebake1> I understand.
<joebake1> So do I re-install the whole operating system as 32 bit?
<joebake1> I was hoping to get the 64 bit speed boost doing Cinelerra video editing.
<johnny_> well.. why are you running server?
<johnny_> well it's up to you if you wanna try to force it
<johnny_> if nothing else you an install binary 32bit firefox
<johnny_> and then copy the plugin in there
<johnny_> tha's what was setup at our store before i got here
<laga> johnny_, joebake1: flash is working for me on amd64
<laga> johnny_, joebake1: you just need the nspluginwrapper.. i think it's set up automagically, at least for me
<laga> (on ubuntu gutsy and hardy)
<oxtub> 0/who
#edubuntu 2009-03-16
<Ahmuck> so LaserJock bowed out of edubuntu?
#edubuntu 2009-03-17
<bdoin> does anybody know the packaging status for GCompris on Jaunty, we made recent releases with many bug fixes, it would be great to see an updated package.
<faustino3331> stgrabber: i've created with alpha 6 the ltsp-build-client --arch i386 without problems but i can't boot the thin clients
<faustino3331> stgraber: in the thin client i have an error about chroot: usr/bin/getltscfg do i have to create a lts.conf file?
<faustino3331> ogra: i've tried ltsp-manager but it doesn't show anything i'm using amd64 jaunty alpha6, it's just an empty window and nothing else in the console it just shows a warning telling that popen2 is deprecated
<stgraber> faustino3331: can you be a bit more precise about the error message or even take a photo of it ?
<faustino3331> stgraber: i'm not near the computer right now
<faustino3331> but it was something like chroot: /usr/bin/getltscfg exec error
<faustino3331> could it be because i have no created an lts.conf file?
<faustino3331> not
#edubuntu 2009-03-18
<stgraber> no, an empty /etc/lts.conf exists and so that error message shouldn't happen (if it's the file missing one)
<stgraber> that's why I'd like to be sure about what error message you're getting
<faustino3331> i will take a photo and send it to you if it's needed
<faustino3331> stgraber: the error is "chroot: cannot execute /usr/bin/getltscfg: Exec format error"
<LaserJock> morning edu people!
<Lns> hey LaserJock !!
<Lns> How's the school??
<LaserJock> busy busy
<LaserJock> Lns: how you been?
<Lns> Been good! Did some work on my website the past few days. Pictures sure seem to make things look better ;)
<LaserJock> heh, yeah
<Lns> as well as my coolio 'office-cam' on the front page that shows off that I'm not normally here, haha
<LaserJock> Lns: any interesting stuff going on here in the last week?
<Lns> (shameless plug) http://logicalnetworking.net
<Lns> LaserJock: not a lot really. I've been working a lot on the biz side of things, haven't really delved into a lot of edubuntu/ltsp stuff in the past week or so
<Lns> but i'm about to embark on creating my first Zenity script =)
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> zenity is kinda fun
<LaserJock> but the "real" programmers kinda scoff at it
 * Lns isn't a real programmer... ;)
<LaserJock> me neither
<LaserJock> that's why I've used it :-)
<Lns> hehe
<LaserJock> I made a little GUI wrapper for Squeak with it
<LaserJock> did what I needed it to do, and nicely
<Lns> yeah, it seems to be pretty nice. even has that --calendar thing which is pretty cool =p
<Lns> i'm gonna attempt to make a GUI around establishing / modifying automated startup/shutdown for an LTSP network with it
<Lns> since the on-site techs dont' want to dig into crontabs and such =p
<Lns> and eventually replace my little homebrew script for doing things with it
<LaserJock> we should have some sort of LTSP scripts repository
<Lns> yes we should!
<Lns> It probably won't happen, but i'm hoping to make a generic admin script / gui for ltsp/ubuntu at least that i can share with others that will help..sort of a control panel
<Lns> almost like what ltspadmin used to be
<LaserJock> awesome, ubuntu-edu-* got promoted to Main
<Lns> LaserJock: nice!!
<ogra> LaserJock, seb128 looked for someone who can nod off dumping screem to universe btw
<LaserJock> ogra: hmmm
<LaserJock> ogra: it is a problem but I don't think we'd have a replacement for Jaunty
<ogra> its the one app keeping gtksourceview1 in main which he wants to get rid of
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> it's really buggy
<LaserJock> I'd like to replace it with at least bluefish and perhaps another GUI like kompzer or quanta
<faustino3331> ogra: does ltsp-manager work in amd64?
<ogra> ltsp-manager never worked anywhere
<ogra> its a mockup
<faustino3331> ok but in my case it doesn't show anything in the window so i was thinking that maybe it was  a bug in the amd64 version
<ogra> it wasnt touched since 2 or 3 years ...
<faustino3331> so i can uninstall it without problems
<faustino3331> it looked like a great program
<faustino3331> a really good idea
<ogra> sure, feel free to adopt it :)
<ogra> i dont have the time to code on it, it just waits for someone who is intrested
<faustino3331> if i knew how to do it i would do it
<faustino3331> maybe i loose sometime around it to see if i understand it and how can it be made
<faustino3331> i don't even know how to put ltsp working in my school server
<faustino3331> maybe i should use 8.04.2 instead of jaunty alpha6
<ogra> well, next weeks thursday jaunty releases beta
<Lns> ltsp-manager?
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
<Lns> ogra: oh that! =)
<Lns> I remember that
<ogra> one of my ancient projects
<Lns> hehe
<Lns> pretty awesome stuff
<LaserJock> might be a cool Summer of Code project for somebody interested in LTSP
<Lns> totally
<Lns> doesn't SuSE have something similar to this for kiwi?
<Lns> I thought i'd seen something a while back
<ogra> they have easy ltsp
<ogra> (i still dont like its UI ...)
<Lns> thta's what it was..yeah, it seemed like a glorified text editor for lts.conf
#edubuntu 2009-03-19
<faustino3331> stgraber: the error is "chroot: cannot execute /usr/bin/getltscfg: Exec format error"
<stgraber> faustino3331: is your server amd64 ?
<Eviltechie> What do you do after you install the edubuntu server?
<Eviltechie> Anyone?
<Eviltechie> What do you do after you install the edubuntu server?
<davidgroos> Hi All!
<davidgroos> I'm trying to update my chroot and get a GPG error
<davidgroos> I've googled on how to add it but not able to make it work.
<davidgroos> any ideas please?
<Eviltechie> At least you got it working
<Eviltechie> I'm getting the rsod
<davidgroos> specifically: GPG error: http://ppa.launchpad.net hardy Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available
<German304> Hello
<davidgroos> Until another day...
<faustino333> stgraber: yes it is an AMD64
<Icebuntu> nice to see this place hope people are active in here
<LaserJock> stgraber: ping
<stgraber> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> stgraber: how's LTSP looking for Beta?
<stgraber> very good, theme has been updated and hack for some buggy hardware included
<LaserJock> stgraber: ok, so no usplash problems?
<stgraber> LaserJock: nope, I never was able to reproduce this one, at least not with alpha-6
<LaserJock> stgraber: do you think LTSP is in good enough shape to send out a  call for pre-release testing?
<stgraber> LaserJock: sure, I'm using it in production :)
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to get some upgrade testing
<LaserJock> stgraber: do you think you could work up a quick list of things to test out?
<LaserJock> perhaps we should have a wiki page with specific things people should try
<stgraber> well, LTSP users don't upgrade usually as we don't support upgrade of the chroot
<Ahmuck> do you have a migration/backup tool for users?
<stgraber> they can update the server though and remove the chroot, then rebuild a new one
<Ahmuck> ?
<LaserJock> stgraber: well, that was I was assuming
<LaserJock> but we should perhaps have some testing of that, as well as fresh installs
<LaserJock> I'd like to see edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop-* upgrade testing as well
<stgraber> indeed, would be interesting
<LaserJock> I think it helps if people have a specific checklist of things to try
<LaserJock> though you already know that :-)
<Ahmuck> i'd do a server upgrade ... ubuntu ltsp upgrade if i had a specific way to backup my users
<Lns> Ahmuck: dd ?
<ogra> tar
<faustino333> stgraber: i don't that problem with today updates
<faustino333> stgraber: today it stops in the usplash while loading
<faustino333> strgraber: i've taken a photo of the thin client if you want to see it
<stgraber> faustino333: do you have a photo of the usplash or the error message ?
<faustino333> usplash cause i can't get to any console after the usplash blocked
<stgraber> faustino333: edit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and remove splash from the parameters
<faustino333> thanks stgraber i will try it tomorrow
<faustino333> stgrabber the usplash looks like it's corrupted near the middle of the screen
<stgraber> ah, right, saw that on my netbook too, I don't think it's ltsp related
<faustino333> maybe it's something with the video drivers?
<ogra> did it work with yesterdays usplash (before the artwork upgrade)
<stgraber> ogra: I saw that when rebooting yesterday, same time as the new artwork
<stgraber> ogra: basically you get screen corruption at the middle of the screen (2cm height and all the width), boot just get stucks there and I have to boot without usplash
<ogra> file a bug, so the art team is aware
<stgraber> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usplash-theme-ubuntu/+bug/345269
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 345269 in usplash-theme-ubuntu "Display gets corrupted with 0.22" [Undecided,New]
<Ahmuck> consider me from a high school typing teacher POV
<Ahmuck> which means i dont' dare upgrade without a migration path
<ogra> i consider you a former fedora/redhat user :)
<LaserJock> this upgrade issue is a real bugger for LTSP and educational environments
<LaserJock> you can't really "test" that well if you have to us your production environment
<LaserJock> and if the servers are pretty expensive it becomes unreasonable to just have a second server for testing
 * Lns doesn't get it
<Lns> what upgrade issue?
<Lns> oic
<Lns> definitely agreed with the checklist of things to test. imho that should be a part of any oss project! very simple and easy idea to implement
<LaserJock> Lns: don't get what?
<LaserJock> nvm, I guess you answered that
<Lns> yeah...i'd think it's a general issue not specific to any one software project
<LaserJock> well, it's much harder to test LTSP
<LaserJock> in terms of real-world testing
<Lns> what would be cool is some sort of npo/govt project that sets up all sorts of test environments and people come by and hammer on them
<Lns> tax deductible or something =)
<Lns> yeah..ltsp is very unique in that it's the whole network of systems you have to test
#edubuntu 2009-03-20
<dgroos> Hi All!
<Ahmuck> hi dgroos
<dgroos> Believe it or not I've got another scratch that ANOTHER question...
<dgroos> hi Ahmuck
<dgroos> I'm setting up iTALC and I'm half way there :-) and :-(
<dgroos> I can see the clients on my LTSP system but
<dgroos> when I can't lock their screens nor remote-control them.
<dgroos> Wait--take that back, I can control the users screens, but there is so much of a lag
<dgroos> between say me clicking on a menu on one of the student screens and the menu popping down--up to 10 seconds, it isn't practical.
<dgroos> Any thoughts as to what might be misconfigured and, thanks for your time/expertise!
<Ahmuck-Sr> seen this ?  http://www.scribd.com/doc/2084073/Floss-Catalog
<dgroos> Ahmuck-Sr:  It looks quite interesting and pretty comprehensive--how do you use it?
<Ahmuck-Sr> not sure.  i tried downloading it
<dgroos> I'm at this moment downloading the companion to it FLOSSguide...
<dgroos> took a bit to download the Floss-Catalog--had to join the site--but looks interesting and might be a good resource for background info--thanks Ahmuck-Sr.
<dgroos> my brain is starting shut-down procedures, must head to bed...  I'll comeback tomorrow during my preparation period tomorrow and both folks again with this Q.  later.
<Jared555> is there much of any chance of smart boards just working easily?
<faustino333> stgraber: today the usplash problem is resolved but i still have the "chroot: cannot execute /usr/bin/getltscfg: Exec format error"
<faustino333> i've build a new i386 client and the usplash was gone
<bdoin> ogra: what GCompris release is going to ship with jaunty ?
<bdoin> I am afraid by this bug : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcompris/+bug/328917
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 328917 in gcompris "GCompris core dumps at load time in kubuntu jaunty jackalope (alpha 3)" [Undecided,New]
<stingray761> I have been trying to upgrade my edubuntu 8.04 to 8.10 for the past several weeks.  Unsuccessfully, mind you.  This time I tried it in terminal and I got some more info then in 'update manager'.  "...exception from gpg: Gnupg exited non-zero, with code 131072.   gpg: warning: unsafe permissions on homedir 'tmp/tmpQ9HdcJ'   gpg: Signature made Tue 04 Nov 2008 03:56:17 pm est using DSA key ID 437D05B5   gpg: Can't check signature: publ
<stingray761> If anyone has any ideas about my problem listed here.  email me at stingray761@yahoo.com.......much appreciated.
<Jared555> anyone know of a few programs that would be great to use to kind of show off to a high school science teacher (general science + physics and chemistry courses including an AP course) who is already very open about using technology in his classroom as long as he has the time available to do it?
<Jared555> he has a smart board available, lab sensor hardware, etc.
<Jared555> just checked and the lab sensors have manufacturer linux support
<Jared555> no clue on the smart board
<HedgeMage> Jared555: Well, I work with younger kids, in a district way too poor to have lab equipment... but some of the things that are big hits wrt science are Atomix (it's a puzzle game, but it seems to help the kids remember what different molecules look like), kstars (astronomy program... paired with a projector you can have a DIY planetarium), and audacity (it's a recorder/editor but the manipulations got the kids interested and helped them le
<Jared555> k.
<Jared555> thanks
<HedgeMage> np
<HedgeMage> Sorry I couldn't help more.
<stingray761> Hello everyone
<HedgeMage> hi
<stingray761> I was wondering it anyone was alive.  lol
 * HedgeMage checks pulse
<HedgeMage> yep
<stingray761> LOL
<stingray761> And a sense of humor, I am really impressed.
<HedgeMage> :D
<HedgeMage> I try
<stingray761> I made a post a few hours ago about gpg issues.  Where on ubuntu's site can I update my gpg file so that I can upgrade to 8.10?
#edubuntu 2009-03-21
<Ahmuck> anybody home?
#edubuntu 2009-03-22
 * stgraber is doing some upgrade testing for LTSp
<stgraber> *LTSP
<stgraber> upgrade worked fine
 * stgraber now tries with edubuntu-desktop + ltsp-server
#edubuntu 2010-03-22
<sbalneav> Morning all
<alkisg> stgraber: does ltsp-client need to depend on plymouth? Many teachers here are reporting that the booting halts on 'Begin: Running scripts: init-bottom ...' - so the problem might be either udev or plymouth, so I tried to remove plymouth from the chroot, but ltsp-client depends on it...
<vmlintu> I wonder why plymouth is causing so much trouble all over..
<stgraber> alkisg: mountall will likely fail if plymouth isn't installed and so will other parts of the initramfs
<stgraber> alkisg: I'm starting some tests here on 5.2.1
<joerg> hi
<Lns> hi joerg
<highvoltage> hya joerg and Lns
<HedgeMage> hi, guys :)
<Lns> hey all =)
<Lns> So in all of your experiences, what is the most common question you've been asked when saying "Hey you should try Edubuntu!" to a school?
<Lns> or anyone really
<highvoltage> "How do I install this software that I bought from the shop down the street"
<highvoltage> (or received from the department education, etc)
<HedgeMage> "Don't you have to be a CS major to run Linux?"
<HedgeMage> "Will it be too hard for kids to use?"
<joerg> where is the C: drive? is a good question as well :)
<joerg> be prepared :)
<Lns> You guys rock! Thanks..keep em coming if you have more!
<Lns> I'm trying to get a really good FAQ for this
<HedgeMage> "Will this work with my <hardware>?"
<joerg> "Can I open PDF files on linux?"
<joerg> "where can I buy it for my home computer?" :)
<Lns> hehe
<joerg> "Don't I have to master DOS commands to use a linux system?" :o)
<HedgeMage> My favorite is "What records am I required to keep for a license audit?"
<HedgeMage> My least favorite is, "Is this certified by <E-rate | rural plus | reach | other overmanaged grant that requires specific software>?"
<HedgeMage> (Many grant programs here in the US financially penalize schools for using Open Source.)
<vmlintu> "But we don't pay anything for windows either" / "We have ms school agreement, can we get rid of it?"
#edubuntu 2010-03-23
<xuzhoujim> Anyone here to point me to a good starting place for solving some sound issues?
<sbalneav> xuzhoujim: More information would be helpful.
<sbalneav> highvoltage: ping
<sbalneav> stgraber: ping, aussi
<highvoltage> sbalneav: pong
<sbalneav> hey
<highvoltage> I was just about to ping you guys too, howdy
<sbalneav> ok, I'm running into a common problem I run into all the time.
<sbalneav> I'm trying to update a package.
<sbalneav> But it depends on ANOTHER updated package.
<sbalneav> I'm trying to update davical, but it depends on phpawl
<sbalneav> which the same guy produces
<sbalneav> so I've got an updated phpawl
<sbalneav> .deb
<highvoltage> how is it that you can't install the updated phpawl?
<sbalneav> well I can
<sbalneav> but it's not on the pbuilder
<sbalneav> so, how does one build a package that depends on another updated package that's NOT in the archives yet
<highvoltage> ah I see.
<highvoltage> when you build 'n pbuilder environment you can use --othermirror to specify your own mirror or a ppa
<highvoltage> you could use that to get around that
<highvoltage> (brb)
<sbalneav> ah, ok
<highvoltage> so...
<highvoltage> about the artwork
<highvoltage> what background colour(s) should we go with for the startup screen (plymouth) background?
<highvoltage> I'm thinking of having a light subtle background (like the main area on the wallpeper) with some green and orange hints (like the tree and the ground on the wallpaper)
<highvoltage> I don't know whether there's any strong feelings about it.
<sbalneav> Not really
<sbalneav> Art wise, my taste's all in my mouth :)
<highvoltage> heh
<sbalneav> pbuilder build --othermirror "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/sbalneav/ppa/ubuntu karmic main"
<sbalneav> W: /root/.pbuilderrc does not exist
<sbalneav> E: Command line parameter [] is not a valid .dsc file name
<sbalneav> Something's not happy
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I think you have to add that mirror when you do the pbuilder --create
<highvoltage> sbalneav: and then you just pass the .dsc file when you do the 'build' command
<sbalneav> ah
<highvoltage> stgraber: I agree with the change you made to hace the icons in the System menu, I say we should keep it.
<stgraber> highvoltage: ok
<stgraber> I usually run with that on my desktop and it's in the default keys at RLNX for both internal and our customers
<stgraber> I really liked that when I was running my desktop in Chinese ;)
<highvoltage> *nod* the ucons are really important in cases where the text can't be read for whatever reason
<mgariepy> good afternoon everyone
<highvoltage> hi there mgariepy
<mgariepy> how you doing highvoltage ?
<highvoltage> doing good thanks and you?
<mgariepy> not doing too bad.
<joerg> hi
<highvoltage> hi joerg
<joerg> any idea how I can get money for some open source education project?
<joerg> I know, the question is stupid
<joerg> but I have got so many good ideas
<joerg> just nobody to pay me for doing that stuff
<highvoltage> joerg: where are you again?
<joerg> in germany
<joerg> most of my work is unpaid
<Lns> joerg: care to elaborate on your "open source education project" ?
<joerg> and I can only do it, because I live in a house with parents, sister and dont have to pay for rent, food etc.
<joerg> Lns, myserv-project.org
<joerg> the education stuff is really annoying
<joerg> the government always says: yes, gooood idea, but we don't have money.
<joerg> and then I mostly simply say: ok, gonna do the project anyway
<joerg> and after all they "find" some money.
<Lns> joerg: wow looks like a very elaborate project!
<joerg> Lns, wanna sponsor it? :D
<Lns> joerg: I would but I don't see my customers in real need of something like that (yet)
<Lns> plus i'm really short of money too...heh, i need a bailout
<Lns> anyone know where i can sign up to get one?
<highvoltage> joerg: german government doesn't have money!?!?
<joerg> they have
<joerg> but for other things
<joerg> the township that is responsible for the school buys hard and software
<joerg> state government says: nooo, this is a software project - software is purchased by the towns
<joerg> the state only pays the teachers.
<highvoltage> joerg: judging by the munich stuff, it doesn't seem like a good time for free software in germany atm, seems like there's a lot of politics around it
<highvoltage> joerg: aren't there private schools there running linux?
<joerg> there are even public schools running linux
<joerg> and what happened to munich? :P
<highvoltage> joerg: http://slashdot.org/story/10/03/19/1633241/The-Woes-of-Munichs-Linux-Migration
<joerg> the thing is not to convince them to use OSS, the thing is to get 200-300 hours of work paid :P on OSS
<highvoltage> joerg: ah one of those cases
<joerg> hmm
<joerg> probably it is not that easy to live from projects like that....
<joerg> probably I will spend all my life renting appartments here in town and work as an unpaid OSS developer....
<highvoltage> joerg: what many people do is diversify a bit, do some grunt work that is profitable even if you have to contract out some support work, then you can use that to subsidise your other project until it's more commercially viable
<vmlintu> joerg: do the schools buy services over there? Installing a piece of OS software sounds probably way too difficult for schools' people..
<highvoltage> hey HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> hi, highvoltage :)
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: besides that we don't have a logo yet, are there any blockers for the website?
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: give me a sec to finish a pm with a client, and I'll look.
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: ok great
<HedgeMage> back... logo/branding is a blocker, as is finding out from the powers that be what email account will be used for the web-site's back-end email list integration
<HedgeMage> (It should be an account just for the gateway)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: ^^^
#edubuntu 2010-03-24
<alkisg> alkisg: stgraber: there's a packaging problem ltsp-client-core.install that breaks ltsp-update-image in 5.2.1:
<alkisg> client/initramfs/conf-hooks.d/ltsp usr/share/initramfs-tools/conf.d
<alkisg> should be:
<alkisg> client/initramfs/conf-hooks.d/ltsp usr/share/initramfs-tools/conf-hooks.d
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> good morning mgariepy and everyone
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> howdy sbalneav
<highvoltage> good morning dinda
<highvoltage> Edubuntu meeting in 20 minutes.
<highvoltage> Edubuntu meeting in 4 minutues.
<highvoltage> Edubuntu meeting about to start in #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> ^^^ stgraber, sbalneav, Lns, dinda, mgariepy, mhall119, nixternal
<highvoltage> sbalneav: ping
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Pong
<sbalneav> What for can I do you?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: well you just missed the edubuntu meeting!
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> I had about 2.98x10^8 things lined up here :(
<highvoltage> sbalneav: not a biggie, I'll post notes to the list, we'd like to plan a doc day for late next week or early in the following one, what does your schedule look like for then? will still have some deadlines to run for?
<sbalneav> Early following one.  I'm taking spring break off so's I can work on the cottage :)
<sbalneav> but yeah, I'd host a doc day.
<highvoltage> nice :)
<sbalneav> I need the break.
<alkisg> stgraber: could we change the gconf files that are generated by the fat client script so that they're part of the package and not generated? So that they can be updated on package upgrades?
<sbalneav> last 6 weeks have been hellish
<highvoltage> sbalneav: cool, I'll give you a ping when the artwork is done then we can work out the details
<sbalneav> kk
<highvoltage> sbalneav: ouch, sounds so, well I hope the cottage does its magic!
<sbalneav> Always does.
<highvoltage> I heard a rumour that we might have an edubuntu hackfest there some time :)
<sbalneav> That's what it's (hopefully) being fixed up for :)
<alkisg> stgraber: it might even be better to make an ltsp-fat-client package, with all the necessary files, that would depend on ubuntu-desktop|edubuntu-desktop etc, and which could be installed/uninstalled separately from ltsp-build-client..
<mhall119> sorry, work pulled me away
<mhall119> was there anything in the meeting I needed to be a part of?
<stgraber> alkisg: yep, though that won't happen for lucid
<highvoltage> mhall119: well, we want to add a dialog where you can choose between the default, young and plain theme packs
<highvoltage> mhall119: so the idea is that we could add a qimo option too for 10.10
<highvoltage> mhall119: so when the archives open for 10.10 we can just work on getting the qimp packages in early
<joerg> hi
<mhall119> highvoltage: sounds good to me, I just haven't had the time I need to work on Qimo lately
#edubuntu 2010-03-25
<highvoltage> mhall119: no problem. I'm sure it will go a lot better in the next cycle!
<highvoltage> and with the package experience you'll have by then we should be able to make you motu+edubuntu-dev
<dgroos> Good Morning/afternoon/evening
<HedgeMage> greetings :)
<dgroos> :)
<mhall119> highvoltage: I'm not going to be able to host a documentation jam this weekend like I had intended
 * mhall119 is having to replace his septic drain field
<mhall119> but I saw something about a doc day in yesterday's agenda
<HedgeMage> mhall119: My sympathy -- that is the very definition of a pain in the a**
<mhall119> and the bank account
<HedgeMage> heh.
<highvoltage> mhall119: ouch!!!
<mhall119> yeah, doesn't make me happy
<mhall119> but if there's a doc day planned, I'd like to get in on that
<sbalneav> mhall119: ouch.  What's that going to cost?  You have enough space set aside for a new field?  Or are you having to have the old field torn out/hauled away?
<sbalneav> The 40+ year old tank at my cottage is getting on.  I figure I've got about 5-8 more years on it, max.
<sbalneav> I figure I've got, at best, a 1000 gallon tank.  When I redo it, I'm going to stick in a 2500 gallon tank.
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: if it's designed well and kept in good shape, a septic tank and field can last for ages -- my grandparents' was 120 years old, and only got demolished because the property was sold and a new house built after their death.
<sbalneav> HedgeMage: Unfortunately, before I arrived, it wasn't being kept in good shape :)
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: Usually they'll only go bad in so short a time as a few decades if you are putting things in them you shouldn't, or if you are having them pumped more than neccessary.
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: Ahh, that sucks.
<mhall119> sbalneav: thankfully I have space for a new one, but still $3k
<mhall119> the tank is okay, thankfully, just the drainfield is bad
<highvoltage> hmm @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/anki/+bug/547006
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 547006 in anki "Anki's tooltips are unreadable with Lucid's light-themes" [Undecided,New]
#edubuntu 2010-03-26
<nixternal> HedgeMage: got your dent about being in Chicago next week. Email me more info or when you get here you can call me at +1 630 445 3860 - if I don't answer, leave a message, cuz if I don't know the number, well I don't answer...50 calls a day from potential clients and not answering makes me look busy, or they could be stupid job recruiters, and they need screening
<neil_d> I have setup sshd in the ltsp chroot, including roots .ssh/authorized_keys file... now when I try to login into the terminal from the server as root I get 'Your account has expired; please contact your system administrator' :(   now how can the root account expire?  what do I do to fix this?
<neil_d> I need help getting a USB pendrive on a client to work!  I can ssh into the client and mount the pendrive but I can't seem to get it auto setup so it can be accessed from gnome!
<joerg> hi
<sudobash> I am wondering if there are any models or presentations that already exists for edubuntu for the purpose of pitching edubuntu to schools? I am interested in pitching edubuntu to schools in my area an chard $5-10 per PC to install and customize
<sudobash> charge*
<sudobash> you have to charge something or they will be suspicious, but I want more people to discover free open source software starting with the youth
<sudobash> I started using linux when I was 12 and if edubuntu was around then I think it would have been an amazing learning tool
<sudobash> and if children are exposed to linux at a young age they are much more willing and likely to switch over because they have an open mind about free open source software
<sudobash> ???
<nixternal> highvoltage: how did you get started with the plymouth splash?
<nixternal> HedgeMage: got your phone call, I was sleeping though :)  just woke up...I am such a lazy bum, but I needed that sleep...to much manual labor for the past week
<HedgeMage> lol
<HedgeMage> np
<HedgeMage> on the phone brb
<HedgeMage> back, nixternal
<bencrisford> stgraber: hi, its been a while :P
<bencrisford> hows things at edubuntu?
<bencrisford> sbalneav: hi
<highvoltage> nixternal: I took the xubuntu-plymouth-theme source package and looked at that theme
<highvoltage> nixternal: the only tricky part is the colours, but it's easy once you've figured it out
<highvoltage> it's rgb colours but instead of hexidecimal it uses persentages
<nixternal> ok, I will grab their theme source then and take a look
<nixternal> thanks
<highvoltage> so once you have a hex value you just convert it to decimal and then divide it by 256
<highvoltage> hey bencrisford
<bencrisford> highvoltage: hi, its been quite a while me thinks
<bencrisford> i havent been using ubuntu for the last few months
<highvoltage> yes how are things?
<bencrisford> my computer messed up :(
<highvoltage> ouch
<bencrisford> but then today i was on ubuntu website for some reason and i just got this feeling "why did u leave this?!"
<bencrisford> so im re-installing tommorrow :D
<bencrisford> hows edubuntu going?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: good, we're getting closer and closer to the final relase freezes, so the pressure is on to finish up
<bencrisford> i see i missed a hug day
<highvoltage> bencrisford: but elsewise good
<bencrisford> highvoltage: well, im here to help out now
<bencrisford> so if theres anything i can do :)
<highvoltage> great, I gtg now, bbl
<bencrisford> c ya
#edubuntu 2010-03-27
<Lucky__> Hi
<Lucky__> Anybody there?
<neil_d> I am trying to get a usb pendrive on a client to mount so its accessible.. but it isn't going I have LOCALDEV=true set for this client.. I think I have done all the setup needed but it still isn't working... can anyone help?
<alkisg> neil_d: if you run ltsp-localapps xterm, does an xterm start?
<neil_d> alkisg: why!   I have a ssh into the terminal atm.
<alkisg> neil_d: ah, ok. What do you get with `getltscfg -a` ?
<alkisg> (http://paste.ubuntu.com)
<neil_d> http://paste.ubuntu.com/402338/
<alkisg> neil_d: why startx and not ldm?
<alkisg> (btw, LOCALDEV defaults to true, so you don't need to specify it)
<alkisg> And, which ubuntu version is that? X_CONF is used nowadays..
<neil_d> alkisg: I have the default set to false... to stop all other terminals using usb stuff.
<neil_d> alkisg: I am using hardy
<alkisg> OK - btw, here's the man page, for X_CONF etc: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
<alkisg> Why startx and not ldm?
<neil_d> it is what worked when I setup the system.
<neil_d> I am trying to get a usb pendrive on a client to mount so its accessible.. but it isn't going I have LOCALDEV=true set for this client.. I think I have done all the setup needed but it still isn't working...  there is an entry in "/var/run/ltspfs_fstab" on the client...  should there be an ltspfs_fstab on the server...  can anyone help?
<alkisg> neil_d: why don't you try with ldm?
<alkisg> ltspfsd relies on an xprop token, which might be handled by ldm...
<neil_d> alkisg: because the terminal is miles away and I don't want to upset it booting.... and what could a different way of starting the gui do?
<alkisg> neil_d: ldm contains a set of scripts which won't run if you just start x, I believe
<alkisg> I'm not sure, but it might be the reason why your usb stick isn't working
<neil_d> alkisg: ok I give it a go...
<neil_d> alkisg: no change
<alkisg> neil_d: ok, leave ldm running there, don't put xdmcp (startx) back
<alkisg> Can you mount the stick manually?
<neil_d> alkisg: I will try again.. it i mounted it yesterday.. hang on a minute.
<neil_d> alkisg: it does mount..
<alkisg> There's a troubleshooting page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev but it's a little old
<neil_d> alkisg: yes.. I have been reading that page.
<alkisg> if you run /sbin/udevadm monitor, do you see messages produced when you plug/unplug the stick?
<alkisg> Does ltspfsd run on the client? Do you have an ltspfs process on the server, running as the user that is logged on the thin client?
<neil_d> alkisg: there are no ltspfs processors running.. but then atm noone is logged into any terminal.
<alkisg> I think you need to logon someone for the mounting to work
<neil_d> alkisg: I don't know of any way to do that remotely... nobody is there atm.    why would logging in someone be needed?
<alkisg> neil_d: a process needs to be ran on the server with the logged on users' credentials
<alkisg> neil_d: you can put LDM_AUTOLOGIN and LDM_USERNAME /password to get someone logged on automatically
<neil_d> alkisg: btw.. its 11PM on a Saturday here atm
<alkisg> neil_d: 11pm? where are you! :)
<neil_d> alkisg: yes
<alkisg> Japan?!
<neil_d> no!  Australia, NSW
 * alkisg is in Greece... 2 pm
<neil_d> alkisg: I LDM_USERNAME and LDM_PASSWORD ... but it didn't appear to work... the LDM_PASSWORD is the password in the clear isn't it?
<alkisg> neil_d: yes, but did you also put LDM_AUTOLOGIN=True?
<neil_d> alkisg: to be exact I put LDM_AUTOLOGIN=true
<alkisg> Yeah that should be fine...
<alkisg> Do you see any failed logon attempts in your server's auth.log?
<neil_d> alkisg: I got this in my log "Public key 28:1e:20:a0:6f:49:94:ae:43:1e:ba:f6:f4:b5:d8:3f blacklisted (see ssh-vulnkey(1))"
<alkisg> neil_d: maybe you need to update your chroot then
<neil_d> alkisg: it was update several time on Friday.   How would I change the ssh key?
<alkisg> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update && sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get dist-upgrade...
<alkisg> I think the openssh installer automatically updates the blacklisted keys
<bencrisford> afternoon all
<neil_d> alkisg: working...
<alkisg> neil_d: the stick? nice!
<neil_d> alkisg: no! the update.
<alkisg> Heh, ok
<neil_d> alkisg: the dist-upgrade does nothing..
<alkisg> neil_d: then you already have an updated image. Did you also run ltsp-update-image?
<neil_d> yes... and still got the messages.
 * alkisg doesn't know... google for update ssh keys etc, it isn't ltsp related...
<alkisg> neil_d: ah, do try: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys && sudo ltsp-update-image
<alkisg> Maybe the problem is with the server ssh keys that are copied to the image...
<alkisg> neil_d: is that setup working? I mean how where you working with xmdcp and broken ssh keys?
<neil_d> alkisg: I dont know but it is working.. maybe only one key is not so good.   after all the key still works its just the security that isn't as high as it could be.
<neil_d> alkisg: ltsp-update-sshkeys didn't take any noticeable time... I don't think it did anything... anyway the error is still happening.
<alkisg> neil_d: ltsp-update-image is needed *after* the ltsp-update-sshkeys
<neil_d> alkisg: I give up for now.. thanks for trying to help.
<alkisg> OK, bye
<neil_d> alkisg: yes I know I did do that.. still no joy on that front.
<joerg> hey
<highvoltage> hey joerg
<bencrisford> highvoltage: you around?
<bencrisford_> highvoltage: hi
<highvoltage> hi bencrisford_
<bencrisford_> highvoltage: ubuntu installed again :D:D:D:D
<bencrisford_> i have to say, the boot time on 10.04 really took my breath away
<bencrisford_> its better than arch...
<bencrisford_> anyway, i have to go, ill brb
<bencrisford_> when i get back im gonna sort out my old files, because im sure that somewhere i have a heap of unfinished edubuntu stuff
<bencrisford_> mainly posters
<bencrisford_> its probably all useless, but there might be some stuff worth finding ;)
<highvoltage> bencrisford_: great!
<highvoltage> bencrisford_: yes boot time is really getting good, ltsp boot time is super-fast too
<bencrisford_> back =)
<bencrisford> highvoltage: launchpad has changed :S
#edubuntu 2010-03-28
<bencrisford> anyobody around?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: hello?
<Tm_T> there's always bodies around
<bencrisford> Tm_T: :)
<joerg> hi
<joerg> is there a solution for regulating internet access for students?
<joerg> the proprietary solution we have can do two things: you can (as a teacher) turn on and off the internet in a particular room
<joerg> and you can give network access codes to students which are valid for a certain amount of time
<bencrisford> joerg: hmm, do you mean is there a solution that comes with edubuntu?
<joerg> no
<joerg> I am just asking edubuntu people
<joerg> because they might know if there is anything :P
<bencrisford> joerg: oh, ok :)
<joerg> I'm developing this portal / intranet solution for schools
<joerg> and I prefer to integrate existing solutions than making something new
<bencrisford> joerg: by regulating internet access, do you mean the amount students use it, or what they use it for
<bencrisford> i.e. do you mean to stop them going on things like online games, or stop them using the internet too much?
<joerg> I just described what I mean, didn't I?
<bencrisford> joerg: yes you did, but i didnt fully understand, sorry :S, i get confused easily :/
<joerg> turn on and off the internet
<bencrisford> ok, i see :)
<joerg> that doesn't mean filter things like online games :P
<bencrisford> no, it doesnt :P, i understand now ;)
<bencrisford> joerg: i think that alot of tools that filter websites, also allow you to turn off and on the internet as you describe
<bencrisford> but i dont know if any exist that just turn on/off the internet
<bencrisford> highvoltage: did you get my email?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I did indeed!
<highvoltage> bencrisford: yes, feel free to add items
<bencrisford> highvoltage: ah ok great
<bencrisford> there is a meeting this coming wednesday correct?
<bencrisford> am i correct?*
<highvoltage> bencrisford: that is correct
<bencrisford> :)
<joerg_> hmm
<joerg_> and is there some open source room booking solution?
<joerg_> or resource booking in general?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: i think i have fixed my first edubug since i re-installed ubuntu :D
<highvoltage> bencrisford: which one is that?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: its a typo in the kdeedu control file, but im getting errors when i debuild...
<bencrisford> i was gona start out with a really really simple bug, but this is being quite troublesome :(
<bencrisford> im getting these errors - http://pastebin.com/PQc1FwFk
<bencrisford> its looking for patchsys-quilt.mk but i dont have it
<bencrisford> even though i have cbds installed
<bencrisford> highvoltage: any ideas?
<highvoltage> did you do an apt-get build-dep kdeedu?
<bencrisford> i dont think so....
<bencrisford> is that the problem highvoltage ?
<highvoltage> it could be, you might be missing a build dependency.
<bencrisford> highvoltage: this is the first bug fix ive done completely solo
<bencrisford> before i had laserjock helping me out
<bencrisford> no way....
<bencrisford> nixternal fixed it an hour ago
<bencrisford> :(
<highvoltage> heh :)
<bencrisford> i should have assigned it to myself straight away, but i wanted to make sure i could do it
<bencrisford> that sucks :P
<highvoltage> which one was that btw?
<nixternal> bencrisford: ahh damn, I am sorry dude...I saw the email for the typo and just fixed it
<highvoltage> oh right, yes
<bencrisford> nixternal: haha, its fine, the main thing is that its fixed
<bencrisford> and anyway, i got the educational value
<bencrisford> :)
<bencrisford> highvoltage: btw, getting the build deps worked, i got a gpg error, but i guess thats unrelated
<bencrisford> so ty ;)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: yep, that's normal if you don't have your gpg key set up and defined
<bencrisford> i set up a new one for my new installation today
<bencrisford> i couldnt remember the passphrase for my old one [embarrassed face], so i intend to find a way of de-activating it
<bencrisford> highvoltage: how do i define my new one?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: getting you a link...
<bencrisford> highvoltage: i did everything i did last time i think
<bencrisford> its on my lp..  in my .bashrc
<highvoltage> bencrisford: ah so you have DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME in your .bashrc?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: no... :/
<highvoltage> then when you do the build command add -kyouremailaddress@blah.com
<highvoltage> bencrisford: ok, add the following to your .bashrc:
<highvoltage> export DEBEMAIL="your.email@host.com"
<highvoltage> export DEBFULLNAME="First Last"
<bencrisford> export GPGKEY=(key) - i have that line in there
<bencrisford> do i need that last one?
<highvoltage> it's useful to have it there, the other devscripts such as dch and others use it too
<highvoltage> but it's not strictly necessary
<bencrisford> ok, i think its all sorted
<bencrisford> at the bottom of my .bashrc i have:
<bencrisford> export DEBEMAIL="bencrisford@blahblahblahh..."
<bencrisford> export DEBFULLNAME="Ben Crisford"
<highvoltage> ok, then you'll either have to end your terminal session and start a new one or resource bash, or just paste that in your current terminal
<bencrisford> end terminal session?  u mean just close and open terminal?
<bencrisford> and source ~/.bashrc ?
<highvoltage> yep, when you open a new one it would have been sourced already
<bencrisford> oh ok
<bencrisford> highvoltage: if i apt-get source kdeedu again, will that overwrite my changes?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I believe so
<bencrisford> ok ty
<bencrisford> highvoltage: on my backup files i found a poster i made for edubuntu a few months ago
<bencrisford> the poster is pretty useless, but the slogan-catchphrase thing i think is pretty neat
<bencrisford> "Learn to love, and Love to Learn, with Edubuntu..."
<highvoltage> bencrisford: cool!
<bencrisford> highvoltage: is there a marketing team or anything for edubuntu?  because if not i think thats a major issue to be addressed
<bencrisford> we cant get new contributors if no-one knows how much we need them
<highvoltage> bencrisford: there was an advocacy team ons for that but it's been dead for a long time
<highvoltage> bencrisford: it could do with revival
<bencrisford> highvoltage: shall i add it to the agenda for wednesday?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: yep, if you have a proposal or idea :)
<bencrisford> highvoltage: i added a couple of marketing suggestions ;)
<bencrisford> discussion about a team, or re-structuring old one, and maybe joint projects with other teams like the students team
<bencrisford> i think there are possibilities there that could be explored
<bencrisford> highvoltage: in lucid, qcad doesnt appear in any menus
<bencrisford> and needs to be run from terminal unless you manually add it to the menu
<bencrisford> what would i change in order to fix this?
<bencrisford> is it debian/qcad.menu
<highvoltage> bencrisford: sounds right
<bencrisford> there is a bit in there saying section="Applications/Science/Engineering"
<highvoltage> bencrisford: it probably doesn't get copied to the right directory or there's a problem somewhere in the .desktop file
<bencrisford> highvoltage: but could it just be that it wants to be found in the science>engineering section
<bencrisford> which doesnt exist..
<bencrisford> at least by default anyway
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I think it would go into the most top-level section available
<bencrisford> science is not a default menu
<highvoltage> we have science
<bencrisford> highvoltage: we do but it is also a normal ubuntu package
<bencrisford> and i cant see it in science
<bencrisford> which means you are correct about it being a .desktop file?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: i think i may have found something...
<bencrisford> http://pastebin.com/F43MWXzr - that is the contents of the desktop file
<bencrisford> my gedit highlets the "Graphics" in red
<bencrisford> what does this mean?
<bencrisford> nixternal: dont suppose you happen to know what the red highlighting shown here means? - http://i44.tinypic.com/5vvyfs.png
<bencrisford> highvoltage: did you see my screenie?
<bencrisford> http://i44.tinypic.com/5vvyfs.png
<bencrisford> then "Graphics" is highlighted red, no-one seems to know what that means, but surely it suggests an error
<bencrisford> changing it to "Accessories" gets rid of the highlighting
<bencrisford> but reentering graphics makes it come
<bencrisford> bak
<bencrisford> anyway, i need to go, later ;)
<nixternal> bencrisford: for gedit no, for vim that would mean either it is misspelled, or that Graphics isn't a valid category
<bencrisford> nixternal: ah ok
<bencrisford> as i said to highvoltage, Accessories does not get this highlighting
<bencrisford> so it could be that in .desktop files Graphics has a different id?
<bencrisford> im off for the night though
<highvoltage> bencrisford: no idea, you'll probably find it in the rules for the gedit highlights
<highvoltage> ok, goodnight!
<bencrisford> highvoltage: geser suggested checking the .desktop specifications
<bencrisford> i will do tommorrow
<bencrisford> night all
#edubuntu 2011-03-21
<highvoltage> cool
<highvoltage> good morning everyone
<stgraber> morning highvoltage ;)
<alkisg> Good morning
#edubuntu 2011-03-22
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<mhall119> highvoltage: ping
<highvoltage> mhall119: pong
<mhall119> highvoltage: so quite obviously I'm not going to have a qimo-gnome-session ready
<mhall119> with the changes to the top panel, I'd have to re-think the qimo shell layout
<highvoltage> mhall119: I was wondering if it was still relevant, considering Unity. I guess Qimo will be more appropriate for older machines?
<mhall119> I think qimo still has a place on newer machines, it's just that the changes to Gnome in Natty were more significant than I expected
<doctormo> highvoltage: Have you had any feedback on the background? or specs on what formats you need for other parts of the desktop?
<highvoltage> doctormo: yes, I need something for the ldm theme. I took the starry background for that but it was a bit too... stark (not sure if that's a real english word). I think a lighter variation would perhaps be nice. currently the ldm theme is just an edubuntu logo on a light gray background, and it works but it's quite simple
<doctormo> highvoltage: Can you send me the current image and perhaps a screenshot of it in context
<highvoltage> doctormo: ok, I'm syncing a daily build right now and will test it within the hour or so, will send you a screenshot
<doctormo> thanks
<highvoltage> doctormo: this is ldm as it now looks for edubuntu: http://jonathancarter.org/files/temp/ldm_edubuntu.png
<highvoltage> doctormo: the foreground font can only be a single colour at this stage
<doctormo> highvoltage: Ok, so the idea is to make a background which fits around all those items
<highvoltage> doctormo: yep
<doctormo> highvoltage: Can you make a version with a bright green background? 0,255,0 ? I can make it a layer then and work on a version for it.
<highvoltage> doctormo: yep
<highvoltage> doctormo: http://jonathancarter.org/files/temp/ldm_edubuntu_greenscreen.png <- if that will help
<doctormo> highvoltage: Is it always at the same resolution/aspect ration?
<highvoltage> doctormo: nope, it's a login screen, so it will be different resoltions/aspect ratios
<doctormo> Do the items move, change size?
<highvoltage> the logo is horizontally centered, and the position of the username field is the same position relative to that
<highvoltage> the information and preferences button is always at the bottom
<doctormo> highvoltage: And always the same size?
<highvoltage> doctormo: the text size is always the same, it would be different physical sizes on different displays, of course
<highvoltage> doctormo: sorry, one important thing to mention is that ldm always stretches the wallpaper it's supplied with
<doctormo> Of course, but I can do a full 2500x1600 image and have you use zoom or some such.
<doctormo> OK, so that's harder to do
<doctormo> highvoltage: OK so you should choose if it should look bad in widescreen or bad at 4:3
<highvoltage> doctormo: I guess I'd rather stick with the plain background then :) (it looks Ok on both)
<doctormo> highvoltage: It's one of the reasons plain backgrounds exist.
<highvoltage> doctormo: *nod*
<highvoltage> doctormo: the debian background worked quite well for ldm. I think it's something that we could probably get right for oreinic (or what ever it's called)
<doctormo> highvoltage: Can you show me your ldm configuration please?
<highvoltage> doctormo: it's basically just configured via ltsp's lts.conf, the only setting I currently have in there is LDM_THEME=edubuntu
<doctormo> highvoltage: And what does that mean?
<doctormo> to ldm?
<highvoltage> it sets my theme to the edubuntu theme
<doctormo> And the edubuntu theme is what kind of theme?
<highvoltage> an LDM theme
<highvoltage> (as in, a gtkrc file, wallpaper and logo)
<doctormo> highvoltage: OK, I'm surprised you can't do much with an LDM theme with a gtkrc file
<highvoltage> doctormo: how so?
<doctormo> highvoltage: LDM isn't well documented at all, how anyone makes a theme is a mystery to me.
<highvoltage> doctormo: I happened to have made a theme last weekend, I link to a tarball to if you want to look at it... http://jonathancarter.org/2011/03/19/spacefun-for-ltsp-on-debian/
<highvoltage> doctormo: if you don't believe me about the limitations feel free to ask the authors
<doctormo> highvoltage: One page suggests that the ldm theme is created with a simple python script.
<highvoltage> yeah that was the old LDM that was still based on python, the newer (well for the last 2-3 years) LDM is rewritten in C
<doctormo> highvoltage: I've very surprised that the system they've made doesn't not account for widescreen ratios.
<bgarges> I wanted to know about this OS and how it would help our preschoolers
<doctormo> But perhaps LTSP tends not to encounter them.
<highvoltage> doctormo: it does, it's a known issue
<highvoltage> hey bgarges
<doctormo> highvoltage: Then any theme I created would look just as good as your debian theme linked
<highvoltage> doctormo: that would be fine. we just need one for edubuntu :)
<highvoltage> but the plain background will also be ok
<highvoltage> (considering artwork freeze is thursday)
<doctormo> highvoltage: Does the LDM greeter fall under the hidious Canonical copyright theft, I mean contribution agreement?
<highvoltage> doctormo: not at all
<doctormo> highvoltage: OK good, it's just that the sources say it's copyright Canonical and authored by a whole bunch of non-canonical people
<doctormo> which looks wrong
<highvoltage> that's possibly just the packaging itself. some componants are indeed copyright canonical (and rightly so), since mdz and ogra did most of the initial hard work
<highvoltage> but there's no copyright assignment
<doctormo> highvoltage: Yes, but the copyright would be shared between all authors in that case.
<doctormo> Anyway it's not important for youself
<doctormo> highvoltage: The code says that the image is scaled, so a 4:3 image would just have black bars to the sides.
<highvoltage> doctormo: that's weird, I'm typing this to you now on a thin client with a wide-screen that doesn't have any black bars on LDM
<doctormo> I could also be reading it wrong, although it's an easy change to get it to do what we want, the question is are we past the freezing point?
<highvoltage> it was around 2 weeks ago
<highvoltage> doctormo: I guess changing the behaviour now would be kind of risky (since it would probably affect other themes), so it would be nice to put that on the wall for the next release
<doctormo> highvoltage: Does ldm crash if your theme doesn't have one of the icons?
<highvoltage> doctormo: yes
<doctormo> Have you ever tried to build the package? autogen's a bit of an issue
<highvoltage> nope, stgraber might be able to help you there
<doctormo> highvoltage: OK got a patched gtkgreeter built, I use an ENV bool LDM_CENTERBG, if it's false then it'll be as usual. If true, then it won't scale
<doctormo> But center
<doctormo> Even if it's for next release, can you test it for me?
<doctormo> highvoltage: http://paste.ubuntu.com/583915/ I can also pop it into a ppa later too if required
#edubuntu 2011-03-23
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> good morning mgariepy
<highvoltage> no daily build for today: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/natty/edubuntu-dvd/20110323/livecd-20110323-i386.out
<highvoltage> stgraber: this is basically what I get for i386 and amd64 (except s/i386/amd64/g on amd64): http://irc.jonathancarter.org/files/screenshots/ltsp-i386-fail.png
<stgraber> hmmm, where does that .tmp come from ?
<stgraber> that's on alternate ?
<stgraber> if so, please pastebin the /var/log/installer/syslog for both installs
<highvoltage> stgraber: yep, alternate i386 and amd64
<stgraber> highvoltage: ok, let me know when you have the syslog
<highvoltage> it's really big
<highvoltage> 1.9M :)
<highvoltage> I'll put the file up
<stgraber> ok, send it over on jabber or something
<highvoltage> stgraber: http://irc.jonathancarter.org/files/temp/syslog
<stgraber> highvoltage: can you also scp /var/log/installer/ltsp-image-build.log ?
<stgraber> # make sure /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf is for the right architecture
<stgraber> LTSP_ARCH=$(ls -1 /target/opt/ltsp/images | sed "s/.img//g")
<stgraber> chroot /target sed "s/i386/$LTSP_ARCH/g" -i /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<stgraber> that's what failed for you
<stgraber> so somehow the image didn't finish building and remaining as a .tmp
<stgraber> ltsp-image-build.log should show why
<stgraber> (diskspace or similar)
<highvoltage> stgraber: ltsp-image-build.log does not exist on my system after installation
<stgraber> hmm, weird
<stgraber> what do you have in /var/log/installer/ then ?
<stgraber> oh, check /var/log/ltsp-image-build.log
<stgraber> apparently the build script doesn't put it in installer/
<highvoltage> http://paste.ubuntu.com/584375
<nubae>  highvoltage to what extent are the LTSP proproetary items (ie, distro specific) inlcuded... I guess what I'm aksing is, how long would it it tkae to take all those compoents out and be left with a bar system
<highvoltage> nubae: I do not understand your question
<highvoltage> nubae: what would you like to know?
<nubae> itsnot for this project, its ofr the XS sever which has been extremely built for fedora 9
<nubae> and now I want to modularise the pieces so they can fit into any distro
<nubae> LTSP seems like the mst similar sequence of events
<highvoltage> nubae: ah, ok
<highvoltage> nubae: ltsp upstream has already done that, you can get all the ltsp specific bits from ltsp upstream and integrate it with any distribution
<highvoltage> nubae: but I believe there is someone who is already doing / has already done it for fedora
<nubae> hmmm you lost me on the last sentenc
<highvoltage> nubae: I think someone has already integrated ltsp into fedora
<nubae> right I got that part
<nubae> the thing is... the XS porject is goign through similar growing pains that LTSp4 went through being tied to one distro and indeed one reseale thereof
<nubae> I'm trying to make a case that we follow the LTSP 5 route
 * highvoltage is unfamiliar with XS, what is it?
<nubae> oficially we support rhel
<nubae> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Dextrose/Server
<nubae> that is the current fork, as the main guy is uniwlling to take the horseblind off
<nubae> there is also code for building the RHEL6 deployment builder
<nubae> amd I'm currently writing the debian 6 FAI route
<nubae> its eaier than it semems
<nubae> and the whole point is to mle tje sustems as autonomu as possible
<nubae> with every new relese, acpuple of change will need to be cera
<nubae> created
<nubae> but the system ill remail up to dte, anteahcers oinput has been exst
<nubae> ecstatic
<nubae> I want t suport rhel 5.6, 6, centos equivelant if necessary
<nubae> debian6, Ubuntu LTS, na maybe just Maybe Fedora (j-/k - feora will be inthe
#edubuntu 2011-03-24
<dgroos> Good Morning!
<vmlintu> good afternoon
<dgroos> I hope the sun is as bright on the afternoon side of the world as it is on this morning side right now :)
<vmlintu> it's sunny right now, it snowed a bit earlier
<dgroos> I'm extra-appreciating the sun today since it snowed the last 2.  Not many winters that I remember that have had this much snow.  But spring is coming one of these days...  When does spring come in Finland?
<vmlintu> It's been quite snowy here too this winter. It's been now above 0C for a couple days now, but spring should be here within a month or so.
<dgroos> Quite similar to here!  We lost a lot of the snow in the last 10 days (lots of flooding has started) but it just dropped below 0 these last few days so it's dry at the moment.
<vmlintu> I just remember that there was barely any snow in MN the winter I lived there
<dgroos_> vmlintu: When did you live in Minnesota? Studying?
<vmlintu> yup, back in the '90s
<dgroos_> cool. U of M?
<vmlintu> that was before university
<dgroos_> (well after, for me :))
<vmlintu> did you go to U of M?
<dgroos_> I graduated from Carleton--south of Minneapolis by ~30 miles, but am working to finish my PhD in Science Ed from the U of MN right now.
<dgroos_> Were you an exchange student in HS?  Which?
<vmlintu> yep, in roseville
<dgroos_> That's very cool.  Cross cultural stuff in HS is very informative/formative.
<dgroos_> But then I guess cross-cultural experiences are quite common in Europe as different countries are relatively near each other.
<dgroos_> bbl
<doctormo> highvoltage: Everything going ok?
<highvoltage> doctormo: more or less, yes
#edubuntu 2011-03-25
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> whoah
<highvoltage> today's daily build is quite decent!
<highvoltage> not even gsettings errors on logins anymore!
<stgraber> nice
#edubuntu 2011-03-27
<highvoltage> hey everyone
#edubuntu 2012-03-19
<alkisg> stgraber: I filed LP bug #959037 about not starting the local resolver if network-manager detects that a dns server (bind9, dnsmasq) is already installed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959037 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Don't start local resolver if a DNS server is installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959037
<AliNarcis> hi edu guys
<AliNarcis> can anyone help me plz ?
<AliNarcis> i wanna know what the 70-presistent-net.rules file is used 4
<AliNarcis> so ... ?
<highvoltage> stgraber: hmm, we seemed to have lost our edubuntu.org favicon somewhere
<stgraber> highvoltage: IS has updated all the drupal instances for security, that's likely when it broke :)
<highvoltage> oh, in that case I'm not complaining
<abd> hi every one
<abd> i'm from iraq
<abd> i ask about uberubuntu site of him not work
<abd> any one know about that website
#edubuntu 2012-03-21
<highvoltage> stgraber: do I need to do something over a serial port with a pandaboard or will it just boot up ubuntu once I have it on the sd card?
<stgraber> highvoltage: it'll just boot
<highvoltage> stgraber: do you happen to know what the voltage is of the power supply you are using?
<highvoltage> I'm wondering whether the 5V one I found is too weak, but the only other one I have is 12V and I don't want to unnecessarily risk it
<stgraber> highvoltage: I "think" it's 5V/2amp that I'm using, let me quickly check
<stgraber> yeah, it's
<stgraber> it definitely needs 5V, as for how many amps, that depends on what you're plugging on it. In theory it can run from a regular usb port as long as you don't plug anything in its usb ports
<highvoltage> ok mine is 2 amp as well
<highvoltage> well thanks for checking
<stgraber> alkisg: I forwarded your mail to the ubuntu translators mailing list
<alkisg> Thank you stgraber
<alkisg> stgraber: if vagrantc can't upload today, I'll do what we did the last time, upload to precise and then let vagrantc upload a new minor version to debian and sync it later on, ok?
<stgraber> alkisg: yep
<stgraber> alkisg: freeze is tomorrow at 21:00 UTC so if vagrant uploads later today we should have plenty of time for the sync, otherwise we can still upload tomorrow
<alkisg> Cool
<highvoltage> alkisg: I still need an ack from Julian for the last change I made: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm-ubuntu-themes/+bug/950157
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 950157 in ldm-ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Lubuntu LDM Theme" [Low,Confirmed]
<alkisg> Nice
<stgraber> highvoltage: hurry because UIFe will get tricky to get after tomorrow 21:00 UTC (doc freeze + beta2 freeze)
<stgraber> bug fixes after that are still fine though as we'll be allowed to upload again on the 29th
<highvoltage> stgraber: I can't find gilir on irc so I'll send him an email
<alkisg> stgraber: when a freeze is in effect, and someone tries to upload something, what happens? He gets shouted at, or he gets upload denied?
<stgraber> alkisg: for alphas => get shouted at, for betas and final => upload gets queued and is manually reviewed by a release team member
<stgraber> if the release team member considers its a critical fix, then it's let through, otherwise it gets rejected and you may get shouted at ;)
<stgraber> for anything related to Edubuntu I usually get asked if I want to allow the package or not, if I allow it, then we need to wait 3 hours for new images to be built and then an extra 2 hours to test them
<alkisg> Thanks, not that I ever wanted to do that, I don't like flerting with deadlines, I was just curious :)
<highvoltage> 15:56 < gilir> hi highvoltage, I saw your mail, I'll answer later tonight :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: ^^^ I'll see what I can do, but stgraber won't sponsor the package without an ack from gilir
<alkisg> OK, it's not _essential_, it'd would just be nice to have, and I suppose it's of low risk. And the ltsp code should now handle it whenever it's available, so it doesn't matter much if it's not approved, we may e.g. put it in the edubuntu stable ppa
<highvoltage> yeah I'd also rather have it in the archives than in a ppa or something
#edubuntu 2012-03-22
<stgraber> highvoltage: heard anything back from gilir?
<stgraber> highvoltage: I have a meeting coming up in an hour, so I'll try to do most of my uploads before that
<highvoltage> stgraber: nope
<stgraber> highvoltage: he's on IRC, can you poke him?
<highvoltage> poking him via pm...
<alkisg> ogra_: sorry for the ping, I think you hit a similar bug and maybe you could guide me a bit... I'm trying to install phpmyadmin from software center, and the "root mysql password" debconf question isn't shown, so dbconfig-common goes in an endless "retry/abort" loop.
<alkisg> But if I run SUDO software-center, it works fine. I filed LP bug #962393, but then I saw your LP bug #404500, is that the problem I'm facing? Any workarounds, because I want it for a seminar in the next week?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 962393 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Installation loops in db-config-common when ran from software-center" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/962393
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 404500 in debconf (Ubuntu) "debconf-show should not attempt to open passwords db if called with --db=config " [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404500
#edubuntu 2012-03-23
<ogra_> alkisg, heh, i dont even remember why i wrote that bug anymore, thats 3 years old
<alkisg> ogra_: I dug into it a bit more, it's still valid, but not the one that I got bitten by
<ogra_> ah, well, so much changed since
<ogra_> and its a whishlist after all
<alkisg> I wanted to switch teachers here to using software-center instead of apt-get install, but there are 2 bugs preventing me to :(
<alkisg> The bigger one being  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/782953
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 782953 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Software Center doesn't detect changes in sources until update-apt-xapian-index is ran by cron" [Medium,Triaged]
<ogra_> wow, thats a bad one (judging by the title)
<ogra_> did you talk to mvo about it ?
<alkisg> I changed the title after spending 2 hours to find out why it happened
<alkisg> No... let me ping him
#edubuntu 2012-03-24
<alkisg> highvoltage: (for whenever you're around :)): would you be interested in creating an LTSP pxelinux theme similar to this one?
<alkisg> http://alkisg.mysch.gr/steki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2828.0;attach=1672;image
<alkisg> I.e. the wallpaper + the font colors
<alkisg> My wallpaper, to see the necessary format, is in: http://alkisg.mysch.gr/steki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2828.0;attach=1955
<alkisg> And the corresponding pxelinux.cfg/default in: http://alkisg.mysch.gr/steki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2828.0;attach=1671
#edubuntu 2013-03-19
<mohan> hello
#edubuntu 2013-03-20
<highvoltage> stgraber: slide-wise I think we're more or less ok. there's some graphics that will need some updating, but at least for translation strings I think it's ok
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'm thinking that we should perhaps go with one of the ubuntu wallpapers for the default wallpaper, possibly http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/03/ubuntu-13-04-winning-wallpapers-announced?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+d0od+%28OMG%21+Ubuntu%21%29
<stgraber> highvoltage: are you planning on having the graphics updated in the next 7 hours? we agreed in a release team meeting on Monday not to grant exceptions for the package...
<stgraber> oh, they're actually really nice this time around
<highvoltage> stgraber: I was thinking of the 7th one "stop the light"
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah, I wasn't at the release meeting so I don't know the specifics of what was agreed upon. you told me that the translations were really important.
<stgraber> highvoltage: weekly phone call meeting
<highvoltage> stgraber: if you're ok with that image for a wallpaper then I can go ahead and update the one slide with the old wallpaper
<highvoltage> stgraber: I've been going through many but it's hard to find one with good licensing
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah I'm oblivious to phone calls that I'm not in
<stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, I think that one looks good. I'd have to see screenshots of the whole set to be convinced (lightdm, unity desktop, fallback desktop)
<highvoltage> I'm pretty sure it will look good in unity and gnome fallback, for lightdm the edubuntu logo might be an issue and we might have to provide an alternate logo
<stgraber> highvoltage: if we do go with that wallpaper, we'll need to add an explicit depend from edubuntu-wallpapers to ubuntu-wallpapers but besides that and the gsettings changes, it should be easy
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok, I'll check if it actually hit ubuntu-wallpapers already
<highvoltage> stgraber: doesn't seem so
<stgraber> highvoltage: I saw an upload earlier today
<stgraber> highvoltage: and it's in the batch of updates I have here, let me see if the new wallpaper is actually in there
<jbicha> highvoltage: can the patch for https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694625 be committed? I'd like to backport the namechange to raring before UI freeze
<ubottu> Gnome bug 694625 in general "Add a GNOME Fallback session" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<highvoltage> jbicha: upstream it's supposed to change to 'flashback' and not include 'gnome' anymore (perhaps you've done that already I'll check the bug and get back to you)
<highvoltage> ah, you did :)
<jbicha> well philipp did
<jbicha> just 'Flashback' and not 'GNOME Flashback'?
<highvoltage> jbicha: yeah, I'm unhappy about it but they don't want to call it a 'gnome' project and want to consider it a complete outside project that just uses gnome infrastructure
<jbicha> since 12.10 called it 'GNOME Classic' which we had to rename anyway, 13.04 might as well include whatever the correct name will be
<highvoltage> jbicha: I'm a bit unhappy about that because that's not quite what vincent originally suggested in his blog posts
<highvoltage> jbicha: joss said that he's going to keep it 'gnome classic' in debian for now until the dust settles
<highvoltage> jbicha: I think it's probably not a bad idea to do that for ubuntu too, even though it's technically incorrect and might also lead to confusion
<jbicha> it's a bit confusing since the wikipage (easily changed) and the mailing list call it gnome-flashback
<highvoltage> (I think a little confusion is inevitable due to gnome's bad branding atm)
<jbicha> highvoltage: we can't do that and neither can he once gnome-shell and gnome-shell-extensions 3.8 show up in experimental
<highvoltage> jbicha: indeed. just after I created the mailing list and the wiki page the complaints started rolling :-/
<highvoltage> jbicha: the most 'correct' term I can think of then atm is just a 'flashback' session. I don't like that it doesn't contain 'gnome' in it though because it makes it even harder to figure out what it is from a user's perspective
<highvoltage> jbicha: I guess I can just take the patch and make it 'flashback' for now, but I'm still going to argue a bit because I think it should have a 'gnome' in there
<stgraber> highvoltage: ping
<stgraber> highvoltage: the Edubuntu slideshow has a few problems... the first slide shows a vertical scrolling bar and there's one that's missing its icon (and shows an image-not-found logo instead...)
<stgraber> highvoltage: I fixed the first slide, but I still need you to push the tomboy icon to the branch
<stgraber> highvoltage: so I'm going to upload the package first thing tomorrow, can you at least fix that icon in the branch by then?
<stgraber> highvoltage: make sure not to touch any string as I've already generated the new po templates
#edubuntu 2013-03-21
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok, added. I'll re-get the bzr branch just to be sure there's other icon updates that I haven't missed
<stgraber> highvoltage: ok, taking a look now
<highvoltage> stgraber: bzr was a bit weird it didn't want to take the file. I added it, removed it, re-added it, but it still wasn't committed when I did a bzr add and commit. I branched it from scratch again and then it worked at least. it's weird, it's happened before to me too but I'm not sure why it happens sometimes
#edubuntu 2015-03-21
<newUbun_usr> any help around?
#edubuntu 2016-03-22
<ksteffensen> Catching up on not having installed Edubuntu in a few years and reading documentation, etc.  I read one post on Jonathan Carter's blog that had concern about LTSP with Wayland (several years ago).  Reading on Ubuntu pages, Wayland is dead for Ubuntu, and Mir is the way of the future.  Any impact on LTSP/Edubuntu from switch to Mir?
<highvoltage> won't work so well for ltsp clients but should be fine for ltsp fat clients
<ksteffensen> thanks. at least it's only half a problem, and not fully broken
<ksteffensen> Hi Jonathan.  I didn't go down everyone's nicknames trying to figure out which one was you.  :)
<highvoltage> :)
<alkisg> ksteffensen: why do you think that wayland is dead for ubuntu?
<alkisg> I believe debian will support it, and as an ltsp developer I'll care more about debian compatibility than mir...
<ksteffensen> Let me find the page.
<ksteffensen> true
<alkisg> If that's the case, maybe ltsp will support wayland but not mir
<ksteffensen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Wayland
<ksteffensen> At the top of the page, it says, "Please note that we are no longer considering Wayland, but instead we will be moving to Mir."
<alkisg> And at the bottom it says: last edited 2013-08-05
<ksteffensen> Ah.  Good point.
<alkisg> At that time they were thinking that mir would be the default for desktop in 14.04
<alkisg> That's still too far from the reality and we're in 16.04
<ksteffensen> Ah.  Makes sense.
<alkisg> If (when?) debian supports wayland, i'm pretty sure it'll run in ubuntu as well
<ksteffensen> Cool.  Any timeline for debian supporting it?
<alkisg> As for thin clients etc, the general trend is to go with netbooted ltsp fat clients, they run *much* more smoothly
<alkisg> For wayland? No idea, you could ask in #debian or #wayland or so
<ksteffensen> will do
<ksteffensen> Yeah, I've been catching up after not installing Edubuntu since 12.04.  Started reading today.  Did a basic install, but haven't had time to try a fat client yet.
<alkisg> Edubuntu won't be shipping 16.04, but LTSP runs fine in plain Ubuntu 16.04 with gnome-flashback
<ksteffensen> All of my previous experience has been with thin clients.  looking forward to trying a fat client
<ksteffensen> Thanks.
<alkisg> This is the best how-to, if it fits your needs:
<alkisg> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
<ksteffensen> Thanks.  I'll give that a try, too.
<alkisg> np
<ksteffensen> I like your catch-22 of DNS not working because of dnsmasq preventing other DNS servers from starting.
#edubuntu 2016-03-23
<highvoltage> kst<tab>
<wanderingconfuse> Does any one know when there will be a 15.04 release?
<wanderingconfuse> Or how can I update to the Ubuntu 15.04 or 15.10 release. The newer kernel has native support for my touchpad.
<wanderingconfusd> Sorry had to reboot I am back and waiting
<alkisg> wanderingconfusd: 15.04 release of edubuntu?
<alkisg> I think the last and final edubuntu release is 14.04
<alkisg> You can install a newer kernel though, google for ubuntu ltsenablementstack
<wanderingconfusd> ok thanks
#edubuntu 2017-03-23
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: pencil2d (zesty-proposed/universe) [0.5.4+git20170307.c5d8817+dfsg-1 => 0.5.4+git20170323.ec4712d+dfsg-1] (edubuntu) (sync)
#edubuntu 2017-03-24
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (zesty-proposed/main) [0.7.9-68-gef18b8ac-0ubuntu1 => 0.7.9-77-g4a2b2f87-0ubuntu1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-03-19
<EdDeAlmeida> Hi everybody.
<EdDeAlmeida> I was looking for a good distro for my 3 years old son and read this article here: https://opensource.com/article/17/9/linux-kids
<EdDeAlmeida> It says Edubuntu is about to disapear for having no maintainers.
<EdDeAlmeida> I'd like to know if this is true. It would be a shame to allow such a project to disapear.
<EdDeAlmeida> I am a old Linux developer. Already contributed to the kernel for sometime back in the 90's and I'd be pleased in helping Edubuntu to continue.
<EdDeAlmeida> Please write me at edvaldoajunior@gmail.com to let me know how may I help.
#edubuntu 2018-03-22
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: open-vm-tools (xenial-proposed/main) [2:10.0.7-3227872-5ubuntu1~16.04.2 => 2:10.2.0-3ubuntu0.16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2020-03-19
<matsaman> so no actual plans on newer releases of Edubuntu?
