#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-18
<AlanBell> good question
<popey> backwards?
<AlanBell> new stuff at the top
<popey> thats not that unusual is it?
<popey> gmail does it
<popey> outlook does
<AlanBell> unlike IRC
<ali12341> no it doesn't
<popey> oh
<ali12341> gmail puts the latest messages at the bottom
<popey> oh
<popey> most recent conversation at the top though
<ali12341> so that you can read them in chronological order
<popey> but yes, i see
<ali12341> i still think twitter is not meant to be read
<daftykins> threading really annoys some people, user preference is interesting
<popey> off to bed, will see if it's still running in 8 hours time
<daftykins> gn
<popey> bah
<popey> one more bug to file in cof
<AlanBell> popey: are you following your stream or the sample stream?
<popey> mine
<popey> Bug #764060
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 764060 in Circle of Friends "window doesn't redraw when resized" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764060
<popey> somewhat excessive screenshot there :)
<popey> bah, people keep saying interesting things in my stream, i have to keep going to gwibber or twitter.com to see the urls :)
<popey> oh, or the terminal I ran it from
<popey> thats less bad
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/p/bFk/ :)
<popey> first thing I thought was "nice shower curtain"
<AlanBell> at some point you are going to come across some picture that you will wish you could un-see
<popey> yes.
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Hmm... I have sadly *shudders*
 * AlanBell passes the eye bleach
<HazRPG> The goggles! They do nothing!!
<AlanBell> heh, it has drag and drop support!
<AlanBell> try dragging and dropping a tweet onto another tweet
<ali12341> nothing happens
<popey> it moved
<ali12341> ah
<AlanBell> night all
<ali1234> so... pidgin has a plugin for twitter api
<ali1234> and it seems to actually make sense
<AlanBell> that would work better than gwibber with streaming
<ali1234> urls work too
<AlanBell> beacause twitter is instant messaging when you have streaming
<ali1234> probably works with libpurple too if you insist on using empathy
<ali1234> no tab completion on replies
<ali1234> also it acts like a 1 on 1 chat so you get "highlighted" whenever a tweet comes in
<ali1234> it doesn't actually use streaming... it uses api
<ali1234> and default refresh rate is 60 seconds
<directhex> smuxi irc client also does twitter
<ball> Anyone here used the Software Centre thing?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Help Me Be Better Meme - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/18/help-me-be-better-meme/
<MooDoo> morning all
<gordonjcp> morning
<dwatkins> oioi
<MooDoo> mawnin dwatkins
<DJones> Morning all
<dwatkins> hey folks, hope Monday isn't starting with too much of a jolt
<kazade> morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<oimon> saw one of those hideous self-service tills in sainsbury's today running windows XP chkdsk :D
<MooDoo> most of them run windows to be honest
<Tommeh> Even more disturbing to see ATMs running XP.
<oimon> that's why 1 in 3 is always out of service
<diplo> morning
<DJones> It could be worse, it could have been MR or Vista
<DJones> s/MR/ME
<oimon> probably the only time i use windows is when i get money out
<bigcalm> Good morning peoples :)
<MooDoo> xp is always used for that type of thing to be honest, it's the best out of the vista,me,98 lot
<Myrtti> I wonder how hidious combination would be lemon and ginger curd with blue cheese
<Myrtti> on a bread
<DJones> That sounds revolting aoart from the bread part
<MartijnVdS> Must be something Finnish :P
<Myrtti> lemon curd is something very distinctly british
<Myrtti> and even the blue cheese culture is roquefort
<AlanBell> and is yummy
<bigcalm> \o/
<AlanBell> not sure that lemon curd and blue cheese is a traditional combo though
<DJones> Blue cheese I would eat, but lemon & ginger curd sounds offensive in comparison
<AlanBell> however it all ends up in the same place so I would eat it
<Myrtti> it's all I've got in the fridge :-(
<Myrtti> apart from piripiri chilies and mustard
<MartijnVdS> cheese + mustard = yum
<AlanBell> oh, well in that case, it sounds lovely, enjoy!
<DJones> Sounds good, toast, melted cheese and mustard on top
<Myrtti> I think I'll just have cookies instead :-/
<kazade> gah, having such a rubbish start to the week!
<DJones> kazade: Hows the twitter client coming on
<kazade> DJones, getting there: http://i.imgur.com/2YO0S.png
<kazade> DJones, you can keep an eye on progress here: http://www.kazade.co.uk/bugs/projects/ooosh/versions/1
<DJones> That looks good
<AlanBell> it does
<kazade> gonna sell it on a "pay what you want" basis (i.e commonly nothing)
<AlanBell> kazade: what is doing the rendering of tweets? is that a web thing?
<kazade> Webkit
<JamesTait> Greetings and felicitations!
<AlanBell> and is it using the twitter streaming API?
<kazade> AlanBell, no, that's gonna have to come later
<kazade> I saw you are working on that ;)
<DJones> I'm running natty at home, so if you need any extra testing, I'm quite happy to run it, AlanBell's looked good yesterday, very fast
<AlanBell> streaming API works great
<kazade> AlanBell, how do you deal with the constantly updating display?
<kazade> I'm coding mine at the moment to only update the view if the users isn't looking at it, otherwise display a "More tweets have arrived, display?" type message
<kazade> to prevent it jumping around
<popey> morning slackers
<MooDoo> morning popey ;)
<kazade> hi popey
<MooDoo> congrats on getting all the tickets for oggcamp gone :)
<popey> :)
<popey> yeah, kinda impressed they went
<popey> hope people turn up!
<AlanBell> kazade: well I am using a gtk treeview widgit
<AlanBell> I really wanted not to do the "rerender the whole stream" approach that gwibber does
<AlanBell> because that sucks
<kazade> yeah
<kazade> I might use JS to dynamically update it actually
<kazade> that would be cool, I could slide the tweets down..
<AlanBell> yup, that would be nice
<AlanBell> reloading the whole thing is a bit of a nightmare for screenreaders
<AlanBell> as is webkit tbh
<AlanBell> so I wanted to use gnome components
<kazade> probably a good decision
<kazade> does it mean that handling images, urls etc. is a little more tricky though?
<AlanBell> hell yeah!
<kazade> that's the advantage of webkit, you get a lot of stuff "free"
<AlanBell> images not too bad
<AlanBell> clickable URLs are a bit of an issue
<popey> does ocra only work on gtk stuff?
<AlanBell> strictly speaking no, it works on other stuff too
<AlanBell> but not webkit or Qt
<AlanBell> Qt bindings are just about on the verge of existing
<popey> but you're hosed if you use something like Air?
<AlanBell> probably
<AlanBell> the lack of webkit is why things like the slideshow in ubiquity are silent
<Myrtti> popey: is there a cancellation queue for the oggcamp ticket?
<Myrtti> +s
 * AlanBell thinks they should stop teasing people with the "sold out" sign
<popey> heh
<oimon> kazade: are you planning to reduce the gap between tweets to fit more into a page? hotot achieves it nicely
<kazade> oimon, the template is customizable ;)
<oimon> :D
<kazade> AlanBell, this seems to indicate that Orca works with webkit-gtk: http://osdir.com/ml/orca-list/2011-03/msg00171.html
<oimon> twitter streaming api would be massively useful when following sports events via twitter
<oimon> watched the last 15 mins of a football game yesterday using #arsenal hashtag - worked as good as radio
<n1md4> morning. someone point me in the right direction to install gnome 3 on natty (a maverick might also work too).
<kazade> oimon, I can see why streaming would be useful for following a hashtag or search
<kazade> I'm not sure it's as useful on your home stream though, although it would be nice to have the option
<oimon> kazade: certainly for a fast moving event such as sport
<DJones> !gnome3 | n1md4
<richards> #join geoserver
<DJones> I thought there was a factoid for that
<AlanBell> kazade: yeah, webkit-gtk is starting to become readable, in fact yelp in natty is just about workable (but not well structured)
<AlanBell> kazade: try http://launchpad.net/circleoffriends
<DJones> Gnome 3 is not currently supported on Ubuntu. A PPA is available at https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3 but these packages are _experimental_, _unstable_ and may break your system.
<kazade> AlanBell, will do
<DJones> n1md4: I found the factoid :)
<oimon> !unity
<lubotu3> Unity is a shell for GNOME, but it is not GNOME-shell. See http://unity.ubuntu.com and http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/10/31/unity-some-further-clarification-points/ for more information. Have a question, check http://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/unity
<kazade> haha, I just discovered that unlike unity, middle click on DockbarX closes the application rather than opening a new window
<AlanBell> if you don't have the streaming home page then you might be seeing tweets that are up to 59 seconds old. That is stale news.
<kazade> lol
<popey> :)
 * popey gets ready to reply to every tweet with "OLD!"
<kazade> AlanBell, it's not working for me :(
<kazade> I authorized it... and now I have the window but no tweets
<AlanBell> wait
<popey>  /tweet @kazade bet you see something now?
<kazade> ah!
<kazade> I see
<popey> :)
<kazade> that's cool
<popey> there was ~6 seconds between my tweet going and me saying it in here
 * oimon waits for the day that gwibber gets sidelined by a quick and lightwieght twitter client
<popey> you probably got it before me saying it here
<kazade> popey, yeah it came up pretty quick
<AlanBell> if you tweet something you will see your tweet come up in the stream. there is *nothing* special about your own tweets, that is how fast it is between a tweet happening and you seeing it.
<popey> there is a bot in another irc channel I am in, which uses the streaming API
<popey> my irssi goes "bonk" whenever there is a /notice (which the bot does)
<popey> I press enter to send tweet and hear the "bonk" near enough immediately
<n1md4> DJones: thanks
<kazade> AlanBell, what if you are watching a really fast stream? e.g 100s of tweets per second. do you have any ideas on how to handle that?
<AlanBell> yes :) it goes *fast*
<oimon> any screenshots?
<AlanBell> it can follow the sample stream, look at line 300 of bin/circleoffriends
<AlanBell> uncomment the lines and restart to follow the fastest stream of utter inane garbage you have ever seen in your life
<popey> does it run on windows/osx?
<AlanBell> probably, if you install gtk
<AlanBell> and desktopcouch :)
<AlanBell> so perhaps not
<kazade> AlanBell, that's pretty fast
<kazade> too fast...
<AlanBell> heh
<kazade> ah crap, now I'm getting notify-osd spammed :)
<AlanBell> yeah, that is why it says to comment that bit out!
 * popey files bug 764400
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 764400 in Circle of Friends "cof should work behind a proxy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764400
<popey> nice number
<AlanBell> hmm, surprised it doesn't
<oimon> bug #750000
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 750000 in L2TP over IPsec VPN Manager "Disconnection of physical network interface not detected" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/750000
<oimon> hmm i think that guy reported that bug just to get the mythical 750,000 number...reported and fixed himself within same day
<kazade> AlanBell, popey: http://www.kazade.co.uk/bugs/issues/23
<oimon> http://evilrouters.net/achievement-unlocked/ :D
<kazade> phew notify-osd has caught up
<AlanBell> kazade: did you try moving the scrollbar when watching the sample stream?
<kazade> nope, I was busy trying to read some of them :p
<kazade> I guess it stops moving?
<AlanBell> it stays static but when you are at the top it sticks there and the stream rolls past
<kazade> I think I'll probably handle it by having some kind of threshold where it stops updating the screen and falls back to manual refreshing (if the user is watching)
<kazade> and I'll do something similar with notify-osd... at the moment my client only displays up to 3 tweets, if more than that come in during an update it just says "You received X tweets"
<gord> just my two pennys, but notifications should be used when you want to grab someones attention "someone has mentioned you in a tweet" - not "you have new tweets". that can happily live in the message indicator
<gord> please, we really really really don't need more notify-osd spam :)
<AlanBell> this is true
<n1md4> DJones: Very very broken! I'm now reinstalling xD
<DJones> n1md4: heh, Doesn't surprise me yet, most of the devs will presumably been working on unity & as gnome 3 has only just come out & isn't officially supported its got to be expected
<gord> gnome 3 just came too late in the cycle to be included in ubuntu and as gnome-shell required components of gnome 3, couldn't be included. it'll all be in fine in O
 * oimon is about to vote in the referendum
<DJones> gord: After a few days using unity, I'd say don't bother with gnome 3, unity works brilliantly for me (I may be the only one saying that, but it does)
<gord> lots of people are :) just - as with everythiing, vocal minorities
<kazade> Unity is for the most part fine, the panel though is a mess IMO
<DJones> The thing thats impressed me the most is the workspace switcher & having the 4 workspaces displayed & able to see whats changing on them so I can decide which one I want to go to
<kazade> I'm getting sick of being unable to close or minimize background maximized windows
<n1md4> Unity worked for me ... technically.
<davmor2> morning all
<popey> kazade: yeah, i dont like that either
<popey> having to click a lot more with unity than i ever did before
<davmor2> popey: You just don't like anything recently do you ;)
<popey> (partly because I used to use ffm, so rarely click)
<popey> ok, shrug it off then
<popey> wheeee nothing to see here, all is fine, no, nobody dislikes unity, it's all great
 * popey wanders off
<kazade> There is a huge thread on Ayatana about the panel issues
<davmor2> popey: FFM should be back for the next release as some of the devs use it primary one is Pitti if I recall so it will work
<kazade> so far, no-one from Canonical has responded (MPT summarized the video that started the thread though)
<popey> davmor2: I know pitti uses it, I've chatted to him about it
<popey> as does kees
<bigcalm> AlanBell: is this meant to be 4 seconds long? http://blip.tv/file/4904015
<AlanBell> bigcalm: no
<popey> but it's a regression and I'd be staggered if it came back in a way that worked the way GNOME 2 does
 * bigcalm wants to know more!
<AlanBell> bigcalm: there is a link somewhere to the streaming ogv
<AlanBell> or just install the thing, it isn't hard
<bigcalm> AlanBell: maybe later :)
<AlanBell> bigcalm: http://blip.tv/file/4904015?filename=Alanbell-CircleOfFriendsTheTwitterClient799.ogv
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ta :)
<oimon> hmm. streaming ogv seems to be a still frame
<popey> 4904015?filename=Alanbell-CircleOfFriendsTheTwitterClient799.ogv: HTML document text
<oimon> Circle Of Friends - the Twitter Client 0:00 seconds long
<popey> http://blip.tv/file/get/Alanbell-CircleOfFriendsTheTwitterClient799.ogv is the actual url
<oimon> ah, that works
<oimon> think the icon for it should be three chicken eggs in the ubuntu circle of hands style.
<popey> haha
<oimon> if CoF shows anything, it's that there's a lot of nonsense being spouted on twitter every single second
<popey> directhex: what video card should I get to replace my 7900 pls?
<gord> does the 7900 do vdpau stuff?
<davmor2> oimon: not to worry if people don't want to hear they can block you ;)
<oimon> :P
<bigcalm> The twitter client of the future eh? ;)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: what's it written in?
<davmor2> bigcalm: python if it's using quickly
<oimon> imagine CoF receiving that speed feed, piped into text to speech generator...it would be blah blah bieber blah blah bieber
<davmor2> oimon: to be fair you would tune into that feed would you, you'd pick you're own
<bigcalm> Ah well, I won't be contributing then :(
 * oimon is a bieber-free zone
<popey> gord: not sure
<popey> gord: trying to "max out" my desktop, which means a new video card and a Q6600 CPU
<directhex> popey, for gaming?
<popey> a bit, yes
<popey> not a tremendous amount
<directhex> what do you want to spend?
<popey> not much
<popey> the 7900 in there came with the pc some 4 years ago
<popey> iirc
<directhex> geforce 550?
<popey> is that "current" gen?
<gord> graphics cards are at a... funny. place right now. new consoles are spinning up which means that a new graphics card won't be much good in 3 years time. but wait a year and that graphics card will be good three years after that
<gord> i have a gtx 260 and it plays pretty much everything at the highest quality at 1920x1200
<directhex> popey, yes, 500-series is current
<popey> ta
<directhex> or ati 6000-series
<popey> is that 1xdvi and 1xhdmi?
<directhex> depends on the card, that's the usual combination
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - Just got some spam telling us we are due a tax refund from hmrc. The URL points to a domain called newgaytruckstop... :-)
<directhex> i've seen a real mix - 2xdvi+mini-hdmi, 2xdvi+displayport+hdmi, dvi+vga+hdmi, etc
<popey> hmm, my current card has 2xdvi
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer,  never been to new gay?
<gord> my 260 has 2x dvi
<directhex> digital outputs are pretty interchangable anyway
<TheOpenSourcerer> Newquay yes.
<popey> thanks chaps
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: hope you didn't visit the urL!
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: I might look daft but...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway - I'm not on Windows :-)
<oimon> there's daft and there's curious..if someone says, don't press this button, i start wondering...
<oimon> like the time i found a box marked treasure, behind a desk in a shared office once
<oimon> to look or not to look?
<gord> oh, right. you have to put coffee in your coffee maker for coffee to come out. learn something new every day
<davmor2> AlanBell: I'm curious did you file a bug against gwibber,  and if so did you then point them at the circle of friends to see how they might improve what they have.
<AlanBell> davmor2: no and no, not yet
<AlanBell> not sure what bug I would file tbh
<oimon> searching twitter for keyword gwibber shows there is a lot of hate for it out there!
<davmor2> AlanBell: "ubuntu-bug qwibber" gwibber should have streaming content by now for twitter in the bug put I used quickly to throw this example code into play lp:circleoffriends :)  they'll file it appropriately
<Myrtti> that's because it is really an awful app
<Myrtti> nowadays
<popey> its also missing quite a few very fundamental features
<popey> like the ability to follow someone
<TheOpenSourcerer> And to send tweets :-)
<AlanBell> davmor2: in order to do streaming they would have to stop doing the "reload the entire stream" thing and do DOM injection of new messages
<AlanBell> which breaks their themeing model and all sorts of other things
<AlanBell> gwibber just aint built like that
<gord> they should throw out their theming model
<AlanBell> they should, it sucks
<gord> using html to render your application because you haven't learnt cairo is not a solution
<prithvi> anyone know of a good alternative to iperf/jperf  on ubuntu?
<gord> prithvi, does jperf not work on ubuntu?
<prithvi> gord: it works mate! but i cant import the test results into a spreadsheet to graph a chart!
<gord> prithvi, i don't really know anything about the software sorry :) just that if its java, it should work on ubuntu
<prithvi> gord: it does work. it's just that the output is formatted in a weird way, and there is no way to make it ouput CSV.
<davmor2> prithvi: this might be of help maybe http://www.ubuntugeek.com/bandwidth-monitoring-tools-for-ubuntu-users.html
<oimon> not sure if people already say this critique of unity on the ayatana list, but it pretty much covers a lot of common criticism of unity that should be addressed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCJAjK6g8eE&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_245452
<gord> 21 minutes?
<oimon> gord, yep :)
<oimon> it is lunchtime after all
<gord> not watching then
<prithvi> gord, thanks! will look at it.
<gord> thunderbird sure does like to freeze up. a *lot*
<bigcalm> mutt \o/
<gord> had to force quit it in the end, they have managed to make an email client worse than evolution. congrats
<popey> hehe
<davmor2> gord: I don't know I use evolution I never got on with thunderbird
<popey> i have never liked thunderbird
<gord> couldn't figure out how to get it to stop notify-osd spamming me either
<oimon> i have liked thunderbird only in the last year
<oimon> crash ratio evolution:tb 95:5
<oimon> in my experience.
<gord> all i want is a nice simple interface that does pgp signing stuff and lets me send/receive tiny text documents.. why can't someone just basically make a gmail app that works with any email
<davmor2> oimon: I've only had Evo crash on me 3-4 times in total
<davmor2> gord: try claws
<gord> the other requirement is that it has to look pretty =\
<oimon> davmor2: it's amazing the variety of experience. i had an imap account and ical calendars, and it crashed or disppeared on an almost daily basis
<davmor2> gord: you just want the moon on a stick
<oimon> gord, is your tb freezing because of the offline settings?
<gord> i don't know why thunderbird is freezing, i just know that if it is, i don't want to use it
<oimon> i turned off the synchronisation of large folders, since i am always connected. never had problems since then
<davmor2> oimon: I have 7 accounts minimum, I have 4 calendars 2 ical, 2 google, I get on average 2-3000 emails a week.   Evo just seems to work.
<prithvi> gord: try alpine
<davmor2> prithvi: he said looks good
<gord> yeah i'm not interested in a text client
<prithvi> :)
<popey> one day I may go back to mutt
<prithvi> maybe you could add a  nice bg! :)
<popey> but i like gmail too much
<DJones> davmor2: 2-3000 emails a week, thats a hell of a lot a viagra adverts :)
<prithvi> me too
<davmor2> DJones: I work for canonical I get a lot of LP bug mail
<gord> i sometimes think i should mark read all my bug mail.. but i would expect crashes. 50k mails in that folder
<DJones> davmor2: Thats fair enough then
<gord> found a use for my second monitor for today http://www.nyan.cat/
<X3N> wow
<bigcalm> Lost for words
<TheOpenSourcerer> Strange - I've been using TB for years. I have >10 accounts. My TB profile is ~7GB and I use Lightning with ~8 calendars from Google via CalDAV. All seems fine to me.
<directhex> o_o
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't use the packaged TB mind.
<directhex> caldav :(
<bigcalm> directhex: meatboy's music and fx audio settings were both set to 0. As you say, very squishy
<directhex> bigcalm, squishy squishy squishy!
<directhex> bigcalm, i only have one secret character :(
<bigcalm> I haven't played it that much yet. And each time I play something on the potatosack that is complete, my friends bitch at me to stop playing it
<directhex> heh
 * TheOpenSourcerer neeeeeds a sarny.
<bigcalm> It makes no difference to the release date
<directhex> makes a few hours' difference
<bigcalm> Woooo
<bigcalm> Middle of a working day
<directhex> currently it'll be out at ~10am tomorrow. though that'll dip a little by then
<bigcalm> I pitty those who have not pre-loaded it
<bigcalm> I had fun playing The Ball last night. Checked my HR at one point, 103bpm :S
<X3N> it's like you're doing ..excercise..
<popey> you can pre-load portal 2 without paying? :)
<bigcalm> ...
 * bigcalm sends popey to the corner
<popey> what?
<oimon> played portal 1 for about 1/2 hour..got bored
<bigcalm> :P
<popey> i have played portal 1 through a few times
<oimon> actually i spent 1hr trying portal 1 on wine and 1/2 hour of playing
<bigcalm> I played about half of it yesterday
<bigcalm> Tis fun
 * popey wonders how much portal 2 costs
 * popey doesnt have steam on this pc
<gord> popey, http://store.steampowered.com
<popey> wouldn't it be great if portal2 came out on linux along with steam
<popey> bwahahahahahaha
<directhex> the engine's been ported, as has steam. valve aren't releasing it, presumably to avoid support costs
<gord> i'm getting the ps3 version, get the pc/mac version activated along side it, its neat
 * MartijnVdS is waiting for the PS3 version
<MartijnVdS> which comes with a free copy of the Steam (PC/Mac) version
<directhex> i don't want to play portal on a console
<MartijnVdS> 42" TV > 21" monitor
<gord> nice to have the choice though isn't it?
<gord> i'll play it on my ps3 whilst its downloading on my pc :)
<directhex> MartijnVdS, 40" tv from sofa ~= 27" monitor from desk
<gord> sofa > chair
<TheOpenSourcerer> Got this in my email this morning. It's nearly springtime in Canada... http://imgur.com/FuLYQ
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Dutch homes > UK homes :P
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: oh dear
<silner> Just testing whether I can send (have to use ssl port)
<directhex> nope.
<silner> Thanks
<directhex> you can't send.
<kazade> woah, Portal 2 is Â£27!
<kazade> I have been spoiled by Gog.com and the humble bundle
<oimon> and they gave away portal 1 for free last  year
<silner> Yeah that's even better value than last time - if you like games :)
<kazade> yeah, that's why I'm shocked
<kazade> I wouldn't spend that much on a game, let alone one where I don't get a nice shiny box to sit on my shelf
<silner> Shiny box as in a console?
<kazade> or PC game
<kazade> I haven't bought many games since DRM started getting added to them
<kazade> PC games I mean
<kazade> only indie ones
<silner> I never really bought games but I was still annoyed by DRM on principle
<kazade> I have a shelf full of games from 2003 and before
<kazade> they all work fine on Wine..
<kazade> which is why I don't like DRM
<kazade> and I don't "trust" Steam either
<silner> I've never tried Wine-ing my old games - and OLD games is all I have :)
<oimon> last game i bought was HL2
<kazade> I bought the DOS version of X-wing and Rebel Assault the other day
<directhex> portal 1 was a 6-hour component of a full retail product (the orange box). portal 2 is sized to be a full retail product on its own
<kazade> true, I still don't think any game is worth that much money though :)
<popey> i played the other games in orange box to death
<popey> well, for me :)
<silner> You can run most DOS games on DODbox I hear?
<kazade> silner, yeah
<kazade> DOSbox is amazing
<directhex> best bit about dosbox is it works on non-x86 platforms
<directhex> e.g. you can get dosbox for palm pre
<kazade> Wine has been working on integrating dos box recently
<kazade> it didn't work that well when I tried it, but it did prompt me to try DOSBox stand alone which was nice
<silner> That would be a good idea if it could be integrated
<silner> I notice Natty beta 2 has an option for Ubuntu Classic desktop in the login settings popey? When you choose it it seems to work but there seems no obvious way of going back to Unity - it that a bug or feature?
<Pendulum> silner: there should be an option to switch between the 2 every time you log in
<Kanzi> hello, can anyone please help to get my wifi working again after a fresh install?  It was working fine a few moments ago - thanks
<directhex> unity sucks hard enough i moved my wife to kubuntu. it has some rough edges, but is WAY better on a netbook than regular maverick :(
<directhex> Kanzi, have you clicked the network icon, and on your wireless network?
<Kanzi> yes, I get an error msg to check my var/log
<Kanzi> to directhex
<directhex> hm
<Kanzi> directhex, i get that message when I try installing the additional drivers, sorry
<davmor2> Kanzi: you are connected to the wired network when trying to install correct?
<Kanzi> Davmor2, no I can connect wirelessly at that point
<Kanzi> it is only after I restart that this problem occurs
<dogmatic69> anyone know where i can add something to fail2ban to not block a specific ip, or remove the logs of that ip
<davmor2> Kanzi: Sorry what is it you are trying to do and what gives you the error?  It sounded like you were trying to install the wifi drivers when you got the error.
<dogmatic69> need to do it by editing files if possible
<davmor2> dogmatic69: put it in the whitelist
<dogmatic69> davmor2: do you know if i add it after being blocked, will it 'unblock' or do i need to remove the block some how
<Kanzi> davmore2: I have just freshly insalled natty beta 2 11.04 using a wireless connection and when I restart after the installation, I am prompted to activate the additional drivers, which I do, and then I get an error message.
<davmor2> dogmatic69: goto /etc/fail2ban  see what file directories are in it.  You will normally have a blacklist and a whitelist,  if an ip is in the white list it can access you'll need to remove it from the blacklist though
<dogmatic69> k, thanks
<dogmatic69> will check them out
<Kanzi> davmore2: the message is that the installation of the drivers failed and to check my var/log
<dogmatic69> davmor2: what about logs? does it not auto check the logs and ban on boot?
<davmor2> dogmatic69: it'll check the whitelist first the blacklist second for access and no access then it guesses what to do with everything else and move it into one of those
<AlanBell> whitelist trumps the blacklist
<dogmatic69> ok, cool
<davmor2> dogmatic69: I use a different system but they are pretty similar AlanBell might know more if you're stuck
<dogmatic69> so remove the ban, and the white list and i should be good :)
<dogmatic69> should be good now
<dogmatic69> i just cant ssh atm so it makes it hard (im blocked :/ )
<davmor2> Kanzi: right is it the wireless drivers it was telling you to install in additional drivers?
<Kanzi> davmor: yes
<Kanzi> Broadcom STA propriety wireless driver
<Kanzi> This package contains Broadcom 802.11 Linux STA wireless driverfor use with Broadcom's BCM4311-, BCM4312-, BCM4313-, BCM4321-,BCM4322-, BCM43224-, and BCM43225-, BCM43227- and BCM43228-basedhardware.
<davmor2> Kanzi: the cd contains some that are installed by default.  So you'll need to conect to a wired connection install the drivers and you're wifi should work again
<Kanzi> I just tried that but it didn't work.  I got the wireless driver working again from the cd and then when I restarted again from my HDD, it asked me to install again and then failed
<Kanzi> I even reinstalled the whole OS again and that made no difference either
<oimon> kanzi which laptop is it?
<Kanzi> Davmore Dell Inspiron 1545
<Kanzi> sorry that was to oimon (yellow font blinds me)
<silner> Pendulum: The option was still there but it didn't change it back to actually using Unity. That's OK with me cos I'm not keen on Unity, but I may report it for other's benefit
<oimon> Kanzi:
<Pendulum> silner: that's definitely a bug :)
<Kanzi> oimon?
<oimon> Kanzi: try connecting the ethernet cable, and doing the following:
<Kanzi> OK
<oimon> sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get --reinstall install bcmwl-kernel-source
<oimon> note any error messages that appear
<Kanzi> oimon: E: Unable to locate package bcmwl-kernal-source
<oimon> you mis-typed
<Kanzi> sorry one sec
<Kanzi> oimon it is quite a long error message.  is it ok to paste it here?
<oimon> kanzi, go to http://pastebin.com/ and paste the message onto the site
<oimon> then paste the link here
<Kanzi> oimon the installation completed though.  I will just try to run it and then post.  will do thanks
<oimon> you will need to reboot if the install was successful
<Kanzi> Oimon, it is working again now.  Thanks so much for your help :)
<oimon> nice to hear it
<oimon> http://www.thechromesource.com/chrome-os-release-coming-soon-stable-channel-now-available/
<oimon> any thoughts? ^^^
<dogmatic69> how do i mount an ebs image so i can just view the files on it
<dogmatic69> ive 'attached' it, just the seeing data part i dont know
<dogmatic69> 10.10 if it makes any difference
<popey> o/
<dogmatic69> think i figured it out
<dogmatic69> ok, about the fail2ban stuff, /etc/fail2ban does not seem to have anything that looks like a block list, just .conf files
<davmor2> AlanBell: ^ do you use fail2ban can you point dogmatic69 in the right direction
<dogmatic69> seems like its just using iptables
<dogmatic69> looking for a way to do iptables --flush in nano :)
<Myrtti> fail2ban is just a tool to add iptables rules on the fly automatically according to some rules about forced entry
<dogmatic69> ye
<Myrtti> it doesn't -  as far as I know - have any static block lists
<dogmatic69> can i flush it manually?
<AlanBell> put yourself in /etc/hosts.allow
<AlanBell> or is that denyhosts rather than fail2ban?
<dogmatic69> i added the ip address to jail.conf
<dogmatic69> /etc/fail2ban/jail.conf
<AlanBell> maybe I don't know about fail2ban
<dogmatic69> but i think its already in the iptables so it needs to be removed there?
<oimon> dogmatic69: if you already have a permanent ban thaen you will certainly need removing from iptables
<oimon> although i thought there was a command line tool for it
<oimon> man fail2ban-client
<aquarius> wtf? I've just upgraded, and I get "Update standard folders to current language?" which seems to want to move my Desktop folder to Downloads. What's that all about?
<dogmatic69> oimon: i have the disk mounted, i cant run any commands like that
<oimon> dogmatic69: then you can edit the iptables start script, where it loads the rules
<davmor2> aquarius: out to annoy you by the looks of it :D
<aquarius> davmor2, indeed. Am asking on #ubuntu-desktop
<oimon> and add your IP to the ignoreip line in jail.conf ( i think)
<oimon> aquarius: sounds like bug 209513
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 209513 in xdg-user-dirs (Ubuntu) "After upgrade, "Update standard folders to current language" threatens to rename your home folder" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/209513
<dogmatic69> oimon: any idea where that startup script is? not in etc/init.d/...
<aquarius> oimon, aha. I am talking to seb128 abuot it :)
<oimon> dogmatic69: which distro? and are you definitely using iptables and not ufw?
<dogmatic69> 10.10 and no, im not sure
<dogmatic69> its fail2ban, what ever that uses as default
<oimon> dogmatic69: not sure about iptables on newer ubuntu releases, you could try find /etc -name iptables* -ls
<dogmatic69> oimon: cool, that has this http://bin.cakephp.org/view/77709970
<dogmatic69> updated link
<oimon> hmmm try also paste etc/fail2ban/jail.conf for fail2ban settings
<dogmatic69> its just std, only just added ip to ignore
<dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1134908229
<dogmatic69> i guess i could just add 'iptables --flush' to some startup script
<oimon> dogmatic69: i'm not convinced you are using iptables
<dogmatic69> k
<dogmatic69> what other options would there be?
<oimon> ufw
<oimon> i only use fail2ban on redhat so might need someone else with exp on ubunt
<dogmatic69> searching the fail2ban site, ufw has 0, iptables has 18
<hamitron> 0 and 18?
<dogmatic69> links
<hamitron> ah
<doubi> Hi all. Can anyone tell me the meaning of the file names foremost gives to recovered files? Is it a timestamp of some kind? If so, does it related to any property of the original file or does it just indicate the order in which foremost recovered the file? (I know I can't get the original filenames back, I just want to know where to wade in to find the most recent versions)
<doubi> s/does it related/does it relate/
<dogmatic69> oimon: this seems to have a lot of iptables http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/HOWTO_fail2ban
<oimon> dogmatic69: have you tried booting since adding your IP to ignoreip in jail.conf?
<AlanBell> !info foremost
<lubotu3> foremost (source: foremost): Forensics application to recover data. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.5.7-1 (maverick), package size 41 kB, installed size 140 kB
<AlanBell> doubi: never heard of it before, but sounds useful, maybe try in #ubuntu to see if anyone has used it or can point you to the developers
<dogmatic69> oimon: no, was gonna try that now
<doubi> AlanBell, have popped over there. No-one knows, best guess is it's just sequential unfortunately. Luckily it's odf files I'm trying to sort through so there's plenty of stuff in the xml I can just grep for, including last modified times :)
<dogmatic69> oimon: still the same
<oimon> dogmatic69: you don't have console access to the machine?
<dogmatic69> oimon: i just get permission denied
<dogmatic69> if i had access i would not need to do all this :/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew Gee] IPv6 Experimentation  Servers, DNS, Google Apps, and Glue - http://andrewgee.org/blog/2011/04/18/ipv6-experimentation/
<davmor2> doubi: it'll just be an id that foremost gives it.  Most try and keep the .png .txt .pdf correct but then it's upto you to rename that files,  Part of the reason for it is that is aiui they can capture partial information so it might grab 3 parts of a jpeg file that gives you the whole thing.
<oimon> dogmatic69: you would need to verify that it is fail2ban actually causing the problem (by checking logs etc).  additionally you could create a fresh iptables file and perform a iptables-restore < newfile to load the new rules instead
<oimon> so long as iptables is causing the problem, that is
<doubi> davmor2, Thanks for the clarification
<dogmatic69> oimon: found the issue :/
<oimon> sshd not running?
<dogmatic69> from="10.245.109.180" ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC....
<dogmatic69> internal ip changed
<oimon> tut tut
 * dogmatic69 bashes head on desk
<oimon> i advise less drinking at lunchtime
<oimon> ;)
<dogmatic69> :D
<dogmatic69> so what is more reliable?
<doubi> exit
<doubi> lol
<oimon> !info trousers
<lubotu3> trousers (source: trousers): open-source TCG Software Stack (daemon). In component main, is optional. Version 0.3.5-2 (maverick), package size 135 kB, installed size 496 kB
<jacobw> afternoon all
<popey> lo
<HazRPG> hi
 * jacobw is fed up
<jacobw> i need a cool job, not a boring and tedious job
<jacobw> ostrich tamer seems reasonably stimulating :p
<DJones> Crocodile dentist sounds more stimulating
<zenog> hello everyone
<jacobw> hi
<brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
<brobostigon> hmm, using i915.modeset=0 did stop it from using drm the gpu hang issue, however when starting gnome-shell it stuck me into fallback, hmm.
<brobostigon> so it was a success, and not at the same time.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: improvement, or not? :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: had it on all afternoon, no gpu lockup.
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<brobostigon> however,
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: is it meant to stop all accelareation?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: does it do that? hmmm
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: no, because gnome-shell didnt start, and went into fallback.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: at least you don't get lockups :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: but: explain this in the bug report :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i need to test some of the things i know cause lockups like flash videos.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: definatly.
<davmor2> czajkowski: How are you today kiddo?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i have on paper what i want to put into it.
<davmor2> zenog: hello
<Myrtti> this is so wrong, on several layers and meanings of wrong http://www.flickr.com/photos/46567174@N06/5614867323
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: but it's chocolate!
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: and vanilla
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: and creme egg!
<AlanBell> genius!
<Myrtti> hm
<Myrtti> quite nice these crisps
<Myrtti> Jimmy con carne :-D
<jacobw> Jimmy con carne? :s
<brobostigon> [A
<brobostigon> brb, reboot, kernel update,
<MartijnVdS> \o
<Myrtti> jacobw: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Walkers-Jimmy-Con-Carrne-Flavour-Comic-Relief/127894240616634
<brobostigon> phew, no breakage :)
<brobostigon> yay.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: w00t
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am trying the kernel-ppa kernel.
<popey> gord: you know when you see a grey panel in a new unity.. whats crashed?
<hamitron> bah, knackered :/
<popey> gord: its a clean install of natty
<popey> in vbox
<popey> http://imgur.com/PY8uP
<popey> the right panel did load initially then disappeared
<willy1977> hostname
<willy1977> gah
<cbx33> hey all
<dogmatic69> o/
<jacobw> \o
<dogmatic69> anyone around know about drivers licenses in the uk and have a spare minute?
<dogmatic69> #slightlyofftopic
<jacobw> dunno, all you can do is ask
<dogmatic69> been in the uk almost a year and need to get a bike license... not to sure where to start
<dogmatic69> tried a few applications on the dvla site, and all i could apply for is a provisional license (dont even know what that is)
<willy1977> dogmatic69: a prov license is a license that allows you to drive/ride whilst learning
<Pendulum> dogmatic69: where are you from?
<dogmatic69> Pendulum: south africa
<dogmatic69> willy1977: ah ok
<dogmatic69> so its prov -> theory -> full
<willy1977> prov - theory (incl hazard perception - practical test - full usually
<dogmatic69> ok
<dogmatic69> well then i seem to be on the correct track
<willy1977> do you hold a license in SA?
<dogmatic69> also need to figure out how to convert my SA car license
<dogmatic69> only a car, not bike
<willy1977> ah that answers that :D
<dogmatic69> apparently its a straight swap here as the rules are about the same
<dogmatic69> and SA drives on the correct side of the road
<willy1977> http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/DrivingInGbOnAForeignLicence/DG_4022562 try that...
<dogmatic69> nice
<dogmatic69> i been searching for months... even before i came over
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> need to do it over
<willy1977> been resident > 12months?
<dogmatic69> oh wait, read it wrong
<dogmatic69> south africa is a designated one \o/
<dogmatic69> will have been here 12 months in june ish
<willy1977> ah ok, sounds like it's go for launch then :D
<willy1977> also, see what categories end up on the UK license as it was my understanding that a full car license entitles you to learn to ride a motorcycle - but you would be best talking to a CBT provider aswell
<willy1977> CBT = http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/LearnerAndNewDrivers/RidingMotorcyclesAndMopeds/DG_4022430
<dogmatic69> willy1977: ye, saw that but it is if you got your license < 2001, also i *have* a 400 which is not quite a moped
<willy1977> dogmatic69: lol no, next step up from a moped maybe :s
<dogmatic69> hopefully they are a bit quicker here as it can take ~ 6 months from 0 -> full license in SA
<willy1977> you can do direct access courses too
<dogmatic69> (if you pass first time because they already made quota)
<dogmatic69> ye, i got to find the quickest way. got my first bike at 4 so i dont need the lessons
<dogmatic69> though all the traffic circles are confusing tbh
<willy1977> well if you are > 21 years old and because you're an experienced rider you should be able to search out a Direct Access provider
<dogmatic69> cool
<dogmatic69> tx for the help
<willy1977> no worries
<willy1977> hope you get yourself sorted soon ;)
<dogmatic69> nice, says it takes 15 days to swap out the license
<dogmatic69> only have a few weeks till i been here a year.. time has flown
<dogmatic69> think i should have swaped my license first now
<willy1977> :/
<dogmatic69> just paid 50 quid for a prov
<dogmatic69> would not have needed that then i guess
<willy1977> in these instances it may be best to phone someone up at the DVLA and explain your situation...
<dogmatic69> ye, will call tomorrow
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/715096/comments/14 doesthat sound ok?
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 715096 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i945gm] GPU lockup (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [High,Incomplete]
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: looks fin
<MartijnVdS> e
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: enough detail?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<brobostigon> :)
<dogmatic69> google strikes again
<MartijnVdS> ?
<dogmatic69> it wants my cc just so i can create a sandbox for integration
<dogmatic69> sandbox requres registration, registration requires cc
<MartijnVdS> sandbox?
<dogmatic69> dummy checkout stuff, to test integration code
<MartijnVdS> ah
<dogmatic69> fake sales etc
<MartijnVdS> google checkout :)
<MartijnVdS> get the company cc :P
 * dogmatic69 is the co
<dogmatic69> freelancing++
<jacobw> does anyone know how to do slideshow wallpaper in unity/gnome?
<james_w> jacobw, you can take a look at /usr/share/backgrounds/cosmos/ if you have it installed
<james_w> not as easy as "slideshow of pictures in this directory" though
<jacobw> it should be :s
 * jacobw looks at it anyway
<Azelphur> http://speedtest.net/result/1257888305.png woot \o/
<Azelphur> on my old line I only got 2mbit average
<matti> Azelphur: ;]
<matti> Azelphur: Now! Quick! Backup whole Internet!
<matti> ;p
<Azelphur> actually near enough what I'm intending to do xD
<Azelphur> I want daily rsync's from my server
<matti> Hahah
<bigcalm> Pleasing that Super Meat Boy will play in wine. Shame that it doesn't render all of the elements correctly though
<n1md4> hello
<n1md4> I'd ho
<dogmatic69> o/
<n1md4> I wpanted to install testing on my laptop today, and thought I'd downloaded the testing netinst, but now it's up, sources.list says squeeze.  Am I right to assume this is therefore not testing?
<brobostigon> n1md4: squeese in not stable, just change oyoure sources.listentried to testing insted of squeese/stable.
<brobostigon> squeese is stable*
<brobostigon> and then dist-upgrade
<n1md4> Just remembered, this is the ubuntu channel -- sorry guys :P  Same difference though :P
<n1md4> Thanks, brobostigon.
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> is testing still called sid?
<brobostigon> unstable is sid.
<brobostigon> unstable is always sid.
<brobostigon> and you can specify either stable/testing/unstable directly in sources.list
<brobostigon> not strictly the codename,
<AlanBell> sid breaks toys
<brobostigon> yes, :)
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<bigcalm> Night :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: night \o
<HazRPG> brobostigon: sleep well
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good night, sleep well also.
<brobostigon> bigcalm: good night, sleep well.
<HazRPG> anyone seem my video I posted up?
<brobostigon> o/
<HazRPG> I thought it might serve well for linking people to that ask about irc
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> anyone seen http://theoatmeal.com/blog/fix_computer
<bigcalm> That's about right
<bigcalm> 9 hours to go!
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: portal2?
<bigcalm> But of course :D
<bigcalm> If I go to sleep now, I can get up early and play some before work in the morning!
<bigcalm> My goodness, I'm like a little child waiting for xmas
<dogmatic69> :
<dogmatic69> * :D
<dogmatic69> did not play 1, but it looks awesome... saw a clip
<gord> sweeeet, upgraded my laptop, killed my root partition
<gord> just what i wanted at 11:40pm
<popey> oops
<Pendulum> gord: ouch
<matti> ;/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-19
<ali1234> is it possible to reconfigure the UI on OS X?
<shauno> not really
<shauno> not sure how else to answer that.  impossibly vague :)
<ali1234> is it possible to make the buttons be on the right?
<ali1234> is it possible to turn off global menu?
<matti> No.
<ali1234> is it possible to replace the dock with a traditional task list?
<ali1234> basically i want to turn it into windows
<matti> ali1234: Install Windows then ;p
<matti> ali1234: Mac is just a PC nowadays ;p
<popey> you can have the dock on the bottom, left or right
<ali1234> can i run Xcode on windows?
<ali1234> popey: i don't want any kind of dock, docks are rubbish
<popey> meh
<popey> dunno if you can turn it off entirely
<popey> pretty sure you can't make global menu go away
<popey> oh, you said buttons, sorry, i thought you meant dock
<popey> didnt realise you meant window controls
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> is it possible to install KDE as a desktop and run native apps through it?
<Azelphur> popey: I was asking you about rsnapshot the other day, how do you get around the permissions/file problems with rsnapshot? :p
<popey> which problems?
<popey> ali1234: you can run x on it, dunno about DEs
<popey> i have x on mine so i can do ssh -x to ubuntu
<shauno> you can install gnome/kde, it's just a lot of work because no-one builds it for you anymore
<Azelphur> popey: you say you back up the entire filesystem, but surely to do that as a normal user is impossible?
<shauno> but if you launch 'native' apps thru them, they'll appear on your regular desktop, instead of thru X.  because they're not X apps
<ali1234> yeah i'm aware of the brokenness of OS X's X11
<popey> Azelphur: i dont do it as a normal user, I do it as root
<Azelphur> popey: ah, so you've enabled the root user on your server? :p
<ali1234> i just hope the same thing doesn't happen when we're all forced to switch to wayland
<dogmatic69> anyone know how i can make vsftp upload files to 644 and folders at 755?
<Azelphur> that makes more sense :)
<dogmatic69> it keeps doing 022 and random things
<popey> no Azelphur
<Azelphur> back to being confused then xD
<popey> i added an ssh key to /root/.ssh/authorized_keys
<popey> so rsnapshot can connect as root to those boxes
<Azelphur> ah I see
<dogmatic69> local_umask=077 is close, but only for the current user
<dogmatic69> doing 755 is not actually doing 755, its 042 or something
<ali1234> is it difficult to use a mac if you don't have a mac keyboard?
<shauno> not really.  f12 will become your eject key, super_L will become your cmd key.
<ali1234> super L being left windows key?
<shauno> yeah
<shauno> it's a bit odd if you're actually used to using a mac keyboard, because they have alt & cmd the other way around  (ctrl, alt, cmd, space).  but if you're not used to it, you won't notice
<ali1234> i used a mac once before and the keyboard layout was noticably different hence my question
<ali1234> i never got used to it though
<shauno> the mac's uk layout is closer to a US layout than windows'
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> will that cause me a problem?
<ali1234> will i always get " when i type @?
<shauno> it'll be a bit annoying if you're not used to US keyboards.  @ is on shift-2 :)
<ali1234> no way to reconfigure it?
<shauno> not sure actually.  haven't looked
<ali1234> http://www.gyford.com/phil/writing/2005/11/20/using_a_british.php
<shauno> was in the US when I started moving form ubuntu/debian to osx, so didn't think of that at all :)
<shauno> (the remap modifiers bit is handy tho.  turning useless caplock key into a ctrl key is pure win.)
<ali1234> i'd be happy if things just did what was written on them
<HazRPG> man I'm boreddddddddddd
<HazRPG> need something to do >_<
<HazRPG> tempted to turn on the c64 to waste some hrs
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> only pc keyboard I have atm is ps/2, so I can't really test :/
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, I use to have to use a US layout keyboard at one point
<shauno> everyone does at one point or another
<HazRPG> couldn't avoid it, because the US layout is so different to the UK... you loose keys when you switch it to UK
<HazRPG> laptop has a US/Ar layout
<HazRPG> Which I think is daft, there should be a UK/Ar layout :/
<shauno> I remember finding some quake build (possibly glquake) that actually understood my keyboard layout.
<shauno> was very odd actually having ~ open the console.  quake originally assumed a US layout, so it was always "the key left of 1", no matter what was written on it
<HazRPG> ah, yeah I remember that
<HazRPG> I use to associate that key with the "console/terminal" key
<shauno> that's still my system-wide "give me a terminal" key :)
<shauno> especially since the mac-uk keymap puts the most useless characters possible on it
<HazRPG> heh you mean the "Â¬`|" keys?
<shauno> worse
<HazRPG> (which I think is daft cos | is also at the bottom next to shift!)
<shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_sign
<shauno> I can't type it anymore, because that key doesn't do what it oughta anymore :)
<ali1234> Â§
<shauno> but that's gotta score major points for being the most useless glpyh to ever earn it's own key
<HazRPG> shauno: might be useful for lawyers :P
<HazRPG> which is probably why its there :P
<ali1234> and publishing
<HazRPG> was going to say that too
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> because its their demographic they use to aim for - and well its too late now to change a standard keyset for them
<shauno> I'd think if that was the logic, it'd be on the US keymap too
<HazRPG> oh, isn't it?
<HazRPG> hmm, seems the americans called brackets as parenthesis... always wondered what that word meant :/
<ali1234> well this sucks
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> i dunno if it's the driver or a windows starter limitation but i can't do dual head and i can only do maximum res of 1680x1050
<ali1234> also the picture is really brown for no reason
<hamitron> 1680x1050 on a netbook?
<ali1234> that could be the monitor though
<ali1234> external monitor
<hamitron> MS probably want you to pay them some of your hard earned Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£
<ali1234> i need to install visual studio express so i can compare it to xcode
<ali1234> and this netbook is the only windows machine i have
<ali1234> damn windows is slow
<hamitron> could be the netbook ;/
<ali1234> it works in ubuntu
<hamitron> windows 7 kinda needs more
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> I found win7 on my old machine with 2gb ram too slow
<hamitron> but putting it on something "good", and it has actually won me over
<hamitron> :(
<ali1234> anyone got an idea of a simple app i could try to make to test all these things out?
<ali1234> should be something that i can make in a day or less
<popey> test what?
<popey> the screen res problem?
<ali1234> "every mobile app development environment"
<popey> ah
<popey> a twitter app :)
<ali1234> no
<popey> the world needs more twitter apps!
<ali1234> that will take more than a day
<popey> rss reader?
<ali1234> rss reader is what i was going to do
<ali1234> but only because it's what the ovi app wizard makes
<popey> haha
<ali1234> and as such i have something i can already compare with
<ali1234> although i already tried to make a RSS reader on android and failed
<ali1234> but i only tried for about half an hour
<popey> you comparing mobile development environments to what end?
<popey> decide on what platform to make your world domination app on?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> evaluating them for someone else
<ali1234> i already know Qt is the best :)
<ali1234> (for me that is, not necessarily in general)
<ali1234> the windows phone 7 emulator just bombs out
<ali1234> i think it needs more ram, or hardware vx support
<ali1234> but it isn't saying. it just crashes.
 * ball is confused
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning campers :-)
<popey> moo
<TheOpenSourcerer> baa
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> oo dropbox security terms of service changed......
<MooDoo> guess it's not as secure as they make out.
<Martiini> I need to clone files from a partition to partition (preserving paths, permissions .. etc) - do I use copy, xcopy, rsync ??
<DJones> Morning all
<nperry> Another tuesday, only tomorrow and thursday to go
<DJones> I woke up thinking it was wednesday
<MooDoo> i woke up :( lol
<MartijnVdS> â« I woke up this morning
<DJones> MooDoo: Always a good thing though, not waking up would be a sign of a serious problem
<MooDoo> ok let me rephrase it.....i woke up 3 hours too early :D
<nperry> I'm tempted to go and buy portal 2
<DJones> MooDoo: Not so good then
<MartijnVdS> nperry: get a console version, you'll get the PC/Mac version for free
<nperry> For free?
<MartijnVdS> nperry: PS3 version includes a code that you can use to get Portal 2 on Steam on your PC/Mac
<nperry> Oh, but I don't have a PS3
<MartijnVdS> time to get one :P
<nperry> Maybe I can get some one to get it for there ps3 and i'll have the code
<nperry> Win!
<nperry> Its my girlfriend birthday today, I half wrapped a present and then used a sainsbury carrier bag to wrap the rest.
<nperry> I ran out of wrapping paper :(
<MooDoo> nperry: oooops :) wrapped with a sainburys kite :D
<stuphi> Martiini: http://www.ymeme.com/recipe-copy-files-directories-recursively-tar-111.html
<JamesTait> Hello, good morning and welcome!
<Myrtti> phew
<wintellect> Mornin all
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<willy1977> morning
<MooDoo> willy1977: morning
<scoundrel50a> Can I install iTunes insto Ubuntu 10.10?
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: What do you want to do? Listen to music? Buy music?
<scoundrel50a> Attach my iPhone to Ubuntu
<scoundrel50a> I suppose listen mostly to music
<MartijnVdS> Rhythmbox and Banshee support iPods and iPhones afaik
<MartijnVdS> just plug it in and a dialog should appear :)
<scoundrel50a> oh, I didnt know that, I'll give that a go now, thank
<DJones> !itunes | scoundrel50a This may help as well,
<lubotu3> scoundrel50a This may help as well,: itunes is not available on Linux, but there are many audio player alternatives (see !players). For Daap clients (sharing music with other iTunes clients on the network), install banshee
<DJones> !players
<lubotu3> Audio (Ogg, MP3...) players: Audacious, Banshee, Beep Media Player, Listen, Quod Libet, Rhythmbox, Exaile, XMMS2 (GTK/Gnome based) and Amarok, JuK (Qt/KDE based).  Video players: Totem, Xine, MPlayer, VLC, Kaffeine - See also !codecs
<scoundrel50a> DJones: sorry just saw this now, thanks I will have a look at them. I suppose they also work on HTC phones as well?
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: yeah, all MP3-playing devices should be supported
<MartijnVdS> if they aren't support can usually be added easily
<DJones> scoundrel50a: I'm not sure about HTC phones, its something I've not used, I always just copy music as a files to my HTC
<MartijnVdS> It worked on my HTC Magic and Nexus One
<scoundrel50a> ok, thank you.
<MartijnVdS> (it should work on any Android device really)
<danfish> \o/ natty t-shirt has arrived
<danfish> morning
<MartijnVdS> "nat" is Dutch for "wet"
<danfish> haha
<bigcalm> Heh
<dogmatic69> im trying to mount something but its not working... im pretty sure the same command worked yesterday.  sudo mount /dev/sdf /media/ec6-clone/
<dogmatic69> getting : mount: special device /dev/sdf does not exist
<dogmatic69> anyone know what i can check?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: are you sure you need to mount manually?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: is it a removeable device?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: try mounting using the GUI tools (either the file browser or the Disk Utility in System->Administration)
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: its a AWS drive
<MartijnVdS> What's an AWS drive?
<dogmatic69> no gui tools on 10.10 server :D
<directhex> dogmatic69, what are you using to create the EBS device node?
<dogmatic69> elastic block store volume
<dogmatic69> directhex: aws console, i had it mounted yesterday... just cant do it today :/
<dogmatic69> console as is 'https://console.aws.amazon.com'
<dogmatic69> what is the command to show all the drives available?
<dogmatic69> hmm, its not there in fdisk -l
<dogmatic69> gah
<dogmatic69> stoped it, removed the drive, added it back and started. now works
<dogmatic69> not like i did not try that 5 times already
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> AlanBell: No pimping circleof friends much then :D
<dogmatic69> o/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<AlanBell> davmor2: who me?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: morning
<brobostigon> http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2011/04/18/how-to-fix-any-computer-in-2-easy-steps/ very funny, :)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: good morning,
<scoundrel50a> ok, anybody know if there is a fix yet, of the backlight problem with Natty? Have asked in #ubuntu+1, nobody is there.
<davmor2> MooDoo: Morning dude
<MooDoo> davmor2: hello buddy...how's it going
<davmor2> MooDoo: Sound although I hope czajkowski gets better soon it's not the same not picking on her :D
<gord> great, i just installed blender on my server. that was a clever thing to do
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes i know, kind of miss her to be honest :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: hugs, get well soon i miss you !!!! <3 :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: you don't need to be that honest ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: just being nice to her for a change
<davmor2> gord: D'oh now you got to uninstall X and the random desktop environment it installed and ......
<gord> actually no it didn't pull that in :)
<gord> blender doesn't *require* X so i guess it did some cleverness
<brobostigon> any grphical html designers, i cant remember enough html, :(
<davmor2> gord: ohhhh I wonder.  I know blender must be able to do headless for server farm I guess?
<gord> yup
<selinuxium> Morning all   o/
<Azelphur> Is there a tool I can run in the background to monitor connection stability? logging downtime/disconnects etc?
<dogmatic69> ping google.com > log.txt :D
<Tommeh> Azelphur, smoke ping?
<Tommeh> mtr might be worth a go, too.
<MooDoo>  doesn't nagios do something like that?
<Azelphur> Tommeh: yea, I more want a log of when the connection goes down so I can use it as ammo against the ISP :P
<MooDoo> lucky isp to have you as a customer :p
<Tommeh> Smokeping would show graphs over time. It's almost as useful to have some form of 'loss' statistic (which mtr can provide)
<Tommeh> But unless you get the logs directly from your router/modem, you won't be able to get anything accurate.
<Azelphur> MooDoo: totally, that said since I started this conversation I've had 3 disconnects.
<Tommeh> Better yet: get a better ISP that logs such things from their end.
<MooDoo> Azelphur: ah!  not with virgin are you?
<Azelphur> nah, good ol ADSL
<Azelphur> found a nice perl script, downtime.pl
<Azelphur> sending IMCP pings to my gateway every second, and logging disconnects that last more than 30 seconds :)
<Neoti> has anyone had any experiance with the Intel HD graphics chip set on a i3 CPU on a laptop?
<MartijnVdS> It works great for me :)
<AlanBell> Neoti: yes, do you have a wobbly vga port?
<MartijnVdS> â« H-D-M-I â¬
<Neoti> no i am just looking at buying the HP G62-452SA laptop and have reed people have had problems with the intel HD graphincs etc ...
<Neoti> though some people report it fixed as of 10.10 ?????
<MartijnVdS> Neoti: the only current problem is "wobbly" output on VGA ports, but that's being worked on.
<MartijnVdS> Neoti: Laptop displays and HDMI/DVI are fine
<Neoti> ah... cool bean ..... thanks ...
<Azelphur> knocked up a little hack using a python ping library xD
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: to do what? ping people? :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: or a radar display? :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: ping my ISPs gateway and log the results
<Azelphur> a whole 4 lines :o
<Azelphur> python gives you wings :D
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<DJones> Neoti: Just for in, somebody was just asking about the G62-465DX in #ubuntu and couldn't get wifi working
<DJones> s/in/info
<DJones> It could be a different driver
 * MooDoo hugs i miss youuuuuuuu <3
<DJones> Get a room :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: that virus was called "I love you" and it's been 11 years, let it go. :P
<DJones> Neoti: I've just bought a HP G72 http://goo.gl/t0W76 The only issue I had was that I had to connect via cable to update before wifi worked, but graphics wise there's been no problem
<MooDoo> damn missed off the czajkowski from that last statement, pah moment passed!
<MooDoo> yay stag do tonight :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: your own? or someone else's?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: someone else's i've been married for too lon...er a few years now
<MartijnVdS> http://www.simplimg.com/product_images/4hRJs.jpg
<bigcalm> All hail the wonderful Virgin Media for going tits up while I was out for lunch
<MooDoo> bigcalm: you as well :) ok then HAIL HAIL HAIL
<Neoti> Thanks Djones
<Neoti> i have found that with my last laptop ... i now always make sure i have an internet connection while installing ubuntu and always do an update after installing via cable connection to make sure everything works etc.... Ubuntu rocks.
<Neoti> bigcalm what problems are you having with virgin media and where abouts in the country are you as i have a client who is having some problems with vm
<Neoti> MooDoo ... i guess you are having problems too with virgin media ?
<bigcalm> Shropshire
<MooDoo> Neoti: on and off all day....Nottongham
<bigcalm> My connection is obviously back now :) Restarted the modem
<Neoti> i have a client on voip on vm and latency to there router was just crap looking at 10-30% packet loss...
<Neoti> guess vm are having some core network problems or something ...
<davmor2> bigcalm: I've had it for a couple of months,  by all accounts it's down to high usage,  ie a lot of new customer are taking the 30 meg option that is screwing everyone else up :(
<popey> :(
<DJones> bigcalm: May be relevant http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/19/virgin_media_superhub_still_wobbly/
<oimon> hmm, received junk mail from AV campaign despite being on the restricted electoral roll & being on the MPS - surely that's not allowed?
<MooDoo> oimon: with your address or just posted through the door?
<oimon> my name + address, posted via royal mail
<bigcalm> DJones: I can't have the 30mb connection unless I stop getting matesrates. If that were the case, I might as well go to 50mb
<bigcalm> Portal 2 just crashed on me though
<oimon> MooDoo: the funny thing was, junk mail comprised some pics of some talentless goons who are supporting their cause, as if to say, well if it's good enough for Eddie Izzard and Stephen Fry, it's good enough for me. i couldn't pick 2 worse role models if i tried
<davmor2> hello czajkowski how you doing?
<czajkowski> davmor2: hi
 * MooDoo hugs czajkowski and davmor2 
<czajkowski> MooDoo: hi
<DJones> oimon: Political parties seem to think they're above & beyond the regulations, I had a similar thing before the last election with phone calls from various parties despite being on the TPS, when I pointed that out they said it didn't apply to them because they weren't selling anything so it wasn't marketing....TPS said otherwise after a complaint & said they would contact them & warn them
<davmor2> czajkowski: How's the back?
<oimon> DJones: and nothing was done i assume
<DJones> oimon: They said they contacted them and I didn't get any more calls
<DJones> Thats all I can say
<czajkowski> gettng there thanks
<oimon> it's a sure fire way to get my back up.
<oimon> just got back from the infosec event at earl's court. pretty lame, hardly any freebies, & dominated by AV vendors of course. not much of note for enterprise linux users as far as i could see
<oimon> got my details scanned a few times and lost a little bit of my soul each time
<DJones> oimon: That wouldn't have been "Alternative Vote" vendors would it :)
<oimon> :P
<oimon> the bigger the stand, the lamer your product usually
<oimon> symantec & sophos had the biggest stand
<n1md4> hi guys.  I'm trying to a new os but each time it tries to boot it's mounting the root file system read-only?  n.b. Debian testing, but I've chatted more here than on debian channel ;)
<n1md4> ah!  fstab says errors=remount-ro :(
<DJones> Heh, anybody interested/vain enough to buy a short domain with their initials http://www.nominet.org.uk/digitalAssets/49223_Reserved_domains_status_table_130411.pdf Wonder if Slumberland beds will bid for zz.me.uk
<Azelphur> Yay, landlines completely gone again
<Azelphur> So far it's been Lots of short (20-120 seconds) drops, followed by an entire day of outage, then it came up, then more short drops, and now it's completely down again :(
<Azelphur> anyone have ideas on what might cause that? XD
<Azelphur> the ADSL light on the router isn't even coming on any more \o/
<DJones> Azelphur: Which ISP?
<Azelphur> sky.
<MooDoo> VIRGIN :)
<DJones> Azelphur: Possibly a faulty router? I had a problem with mine a few months back, turned out to be a faulty power supply which wasn't giving enough power to the router so it couldn't connect, although I was getting some lights on so gave the impression that it was working
<hamitron> Azelphur: 22 days 17 hours, no drop ;)
<Azelphur> yea it could be
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/yzMfXaCf the last results from my little python script I wrote before it went terminal :p
<DJones> If you've got a spare power supply, try swapping it & trying again, the Sky support said it was a fairly common problem although not publicised
<hamitron> you could disable wireless to reduce power to test for that?
<Azelphur> DJones: I did try my belkin router using a password generator and it wouldn't connect
<Azelphur> I could.
<Azelphur> The server forÂ http://192.168.0.1/Â took too long to respond. It may be overloaded. xD
<hamitron> my wrt54gl sometimes does that :/
<hamitron> Azelphur: you have 2 internet connections now?
<Azelphur> hamitron: 3
<hamitron> 2 dsl i mean
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> if my mum has her way, 4 :D
<hamitron> omg, why?
<MartijnVdS> Backups, baby :)
<hamitron> better to just get a better single line :/
<oimon> DJones: when are those domains being released?
<Azelphur> hamitron: Step 1) Azelphur tries to get an internet connection, Step 2) Mum gives asshole dad control of internet connection, Step 3) Asshole dad either sabotages or tells me I can't use new connection
<Azelphur> So far I got the second line, my dad stole it, she wants me to buy a third line
<Azelphur> xD
<DJones> oimon: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/19/short_domain_landrush/
<Azelphur> hamitron: yea, that's all I ever wanted to do, but sanity doesn't exactly reign in this house :D
<ali1234> there's some real serious dickmoves you could pull under that situation
<dogmatic69> anyone know if its possible to move a ssl certificate from one server to another
<ali1234> for example, register third line under her name and then don't pay the bill
<Azelphur> ali1234: if I don't get my connection back I'll start playing, don't worry :)
<hamitron> Azelphur: as you are the techy of the house, just make up some likely story
<hamitron> then you can use them all secretly
<Azelphur> lol
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you can move certificates and keys to another server, yes
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: but not another hostname
<Azelphur> hamitron: so far the only thing my dad did was call sky and cancel the engineer that was going to repair the problem xD
<hamitron> I have a 60Gb download limit... but if my sister downloads 500Mb it is her fault for putting us over the limit ;)
<Azelphur> hamitron: but behaviour like that from my dad is reasonably mild on the scale of things xD
 * MartijnVdS sidestepped the problem by moving out of his parents' house :P
<Azelphur> yea, I'm planning on doing that soonish xD
<shauno> heh, ditto.  sounds like it should be pretty high up the todo list atm
<shauno> either that, or replace the dad ;)
<Azelphur> yea, me and my cousin want to go halves on a place
<hamitron> I like it at home tbh
<hamitron> there are advantages and disadvantages I suppose
<Azelphur> hamitron: heh there's no point in me staying here, my relationship with my dad is 100% over and has been for well over a year
<Azelphur> when I move there won't be any contact.
<hamitron> :\
<DJones> hamitron: s/are advantages/is freedom s/disadvantages/bills
<Azelphur> me and my mum get on good :p
<Azelphur> indeed bills ftl :(
<hamitron> DJones: I also like mumsy's cooking
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> but I bought lots of good stuff while at home and now I can move out and be poor since I bought all the good stuff anyway haha
<hamitron> I have 3 sunday roast dinners per week here
<hamitron> when i had my own place, it was pizza or fish and chips
<Azelphur> my dad starts arguments about food, I'm damned if I eat and I'm damned if I don't :D
<Azelphur> but yea turning wireless off on the sky router, see if I get anywhere :)
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: cool, its a *.domain.co.uk one. is it possible to have it on many servers, one ec2 instance per sub domain
<Azelphur> minecraft 1.5 is out :D
<Azelphur> time to break everything
<hamitron> :/
<willy_1977> jeesh when I moved out I realised exactly how much my folks had been doing for me - I remember the first pay packet the first time after I'd moved out I thought there'd been a muck up with the banks when I saw the available balance after all the bills had been paid :o
<hamitron> I've not played 1.4 much yet
<DJones> Azelphur: Have you got anything left thats not broken left to break?
<Azelphur> DJones: yep, I havn't broken you yet :p
 * DJones hides
<hamitron> Azelphur: you fixed the arduino?
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> hamitron: nope
<hamitron> I want one of these: http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&CategoryNo=53&No=83&PartNo=3
<hamitron> not really wanting to spend that much money atm though
<Azelphur> yea, even with wifi disabled it doesn't even seem to be dialing
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> brb, delivery arriving
<Azelphur> hamitron: shiny :o
<DJones> Probably a Graze box
<MartijnVdS> gaze box 8-)
<Azelphur> I've got 3 of those haha
<Azelphur> got them for mothers day, my mums into healthy things.
<DJones> My mum got a box of chocolates & a bunch of flowers, Dad ate most of the chocolates
<oimon> i had my first mcdonalds meal for ages today...felt good :)
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> mobile SDK evaluation is failing horribly
<DJones> I've never seen mcdonalds and good used in the same sentance before
<oimon> was getting dirty looks from some girls in the park cos i'm skinny and eating bloater food while they were eating soups and salads
<ali1234> WP7 SDK doesn't work, blackberry is so confusing it's going to take me two days to figure out how to install it
<Azelphur> ali1234: why are you using SDKs for dieing phones xD
<MartijnVdS> What's wrong with Java2ME?
<ali1234> Azelphur: because i was asked to evaluate them
<Azelphur> I see :)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: s/asked/paid/ :P
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: i dunno, i've heard of J2ME, what does it have to do with me?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: J2ME is Java for VERY old mobile phones
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: like Nokia S40
<MartijnVdS> and earlier
<ali1234> well that's not on the list
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Micro_Edition
<ali1234> i'm only covering smartphones
<ali1234> the WP7 SDK was super easy to install, there's just one thing to download that does it all
<ali1234> it's a pity it doesn't work really
<ali1234> because it actually looks quite good
<willy_1977> doesn't work?
<ali1234> yeah the device emulator just bombs out instantly when you start it
<ali1234> no error message
<willy_1977> nice
<ali1234> i think my netbook doesn't meet the requirements
<ali1234> would be nice if the installer told me that before it started though
<hamitron> I hate installers that refuse to install on certain specs, just a warning is enough though :)
<ali1234> well the SDK covers xbox and windows too
<ali1234> and those probably work
<ali1234> only the wp7 emulator fails
<oimon> aargh halifax have deleted all of my online statements :(
<ali1234> but i'm not interested in the other stuff
<willy_1977> oimon, that's been on the cards for months now... they've been warning you to print them off if you need them...
<hamitron> if it fails to do that you want, it is a fail... simple
<ali1234> yes
<oimon> willy_1977: months ? :(
<oimon> didn't notice till today..1 day late
<ali1234> "if you need them" - everyone needs bank statements
<willy_1977> oimon, you may have clicked through the nag screen and said don't show me again I guess? but they did also snail mail me about it?
<oimon> my pay slips have gone "online" now, don't receive anything in paper form anymore - how am i supposed to prove anything anymore?
 * hamitron gets statements through snail mail
<ali1234> me too
<hamitron> bit of a technophobe ;)
<willy_1977> some things need filing...I'd feel a bit lost without a payslip...
<hamitron> I assume everything can and will go wrong also
<oimon> thats a really poor show from HBOS removing the pdfs of statements
 * hamitron sighs
<hamitron> nokia E7 looks nice
<hamitron> :/
<dogmatic69> anyone know why this would happen with my ssh? was working before
<dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/2081147642
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Lord] How to install OpenERP 6 on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS Server (Part 1) - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/19/how-to-install-openerp-6-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts-server-part-1/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=how-to-install-openerp-6-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts-server-part-1
<shauno> dogmatic69: 'name' isn't a resolvable name is it ?
<dogmatic69> ?
<dogmatic69> no error, just hangs
<shauno> try ssh -vv <name>.  ssh can be very verbose if you ask it :)
<shauno> (that's two V's, not a dubyah)
<dogmatic69> ok, its got configs from ~/.ssh/config, then /etc/ssh/ssh_config
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> i see...
<dogmatic69> connecting to <ip>
<dogmatic69> which is the internal ip o.o
<shauno> yeah, that's what I meant about 'name' being resolvable.  if 'name' is an actual host, it won't fall thru to the one in config
<dogmatic69> cool
<dogmatic69> easy fix then, had the config in ~/ and /etc..
<shauno> -vv is well handy.  ssh will tell you as much as you want to know :)
<dogmatic69> one was wrong :)
<dogmatic69> thanks
<dogmatic69> -vvvv
<dogmatic69> :D
<dogmatic69> -> 0011101011...
<shauno> I don't know why I'm even pretending to put this tower back together.  the internal layout is so idiotic I can't actually use it ;/
<shauno> it just keeps getting repopulated just so I know where the parts are
<shauno> (I can't seem to convince the loom for the motherboard power, not to make contact with the cpu fan.  which is a very awkward noise)
<neallmcl> hi all
<oimon> good news..much needed unity functionality is arriving : http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/how-to-display-unread-pidgin-count-on-unity-launcher
<Azelphur> DragonKeeper: :D
<DragonKeeper> hey lol
<DragonKeeper> ill use openbox
<Azelphur> DragonKeeper: fun
<Azelphur> I use 11.04 myself, but I don't use unity
<Azelphur> well I do use unity on my laptops, but not on my PC
<dogmatic69> what is the 'correct' way to run a bash script again?
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: ./scriptname ?
<dogmatic69> where the wrong way is '. <script>'
<dogmatic69> could be
<DragonKeeper> as Azelphur said ^
<dogmatic69> tx
<oimon> dogmatic69: it helps to understand why too
<dogmatic69> oimon: i was told . <script> does other things
<dogmatic69> line by line or something
<DragonKeeper> Azelphur  i installed it didnt like it  swapped back to 10.10  :L   the whole side bar and menus at top panel  just was to weird to get used to
<Azelphur> DragonKeeper: yea, when you do update next time just login in "Classic Desktop" mode xD
<Azelphur> and it's back how it was.
<DragonKeeper> Azelphur oh i didnt know that  .. ill stick to where im comfortable untill there is a release lol
<oimon> it helps if you understand . as a shorthand for the current directory, and that . doesn't usually exist in the path (for good reason). if it did, you could just type <script>
<Azelphur> DragonKeeper: :)
<DragonKeeper> whats the command for the program usb creator ..  im sure its preinstalled :s
<directhex> usb-creator-gtk
<DragonKeeper> ahh ty
<Azelphur> DragonKeeper: where abouts in uk are you btw?
 * Azelphur is curious
<DragonKeeper> london
<Azelphur> fun
<DragonKeeper> i guess
<Azelphur> that's where all the interesting stuff happens haha
<DragonKeeper> yeah dunno where i find time to be on irc  to much fun going on
 * DragonKeeper notes the sarcasm 
<Azelphur> haha
 * oimon looks at the sunny weather outside
<Azelphur> the ubuntu release parties / bug jams / other goes on in London usually
<AlanBell> and this one is no exception
<DragonKeeper> Azelphur public access, tickets, or invite only ??
<davmor2> the sun it burns
<Azelphur> DragonKeeper: never seen a Ubuntu meet that wasn't public access
 * DragonKeeper is a vampire and almost died going outside
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 5th May 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | release party: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/889/detail/
<Azelphur> DragonKeeper: although usually they like you to put your name on the wiki so they know roughly how many are gonna turn up.
<DragonKeeper> Azelphur cool  you know when next one is  o.O  ?
<AlanBell> s/wiki/loco directory/
<Azelphur> DragonKeeper: AlanBell just put it in the topic xD http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/889/detail/
<AlanBell> I *just* added it to the topic!
<DragonKeeper> i might go   its soon
<davmor2> DragonKeeper: possible around the time the bunting goes up to celebrate Natty's release
<AlanBell> DragonKeeper: we arranged a bank holiday for you on the following day as well
<oimon> yeah, and the bank holiday we get to celebrate the natty release too
<oimon> AlanBell: beat me by 2 seconds
<Azelphur> AlanBell: we can make bank holidays now? nice :p
<DragonKeeper> :P
<oimon> Azelphur: apparently we can print money too
<Azelphur> that's handy.
<DragonKeeper> you can print 3d objects as well ... big deal  lol
<Azelphur> todays like the waiting game xD
<Azelphur> waiting for bukkit update so I can update my minecraft server
<Azelphur> waiting for portal 2 fix so I can play it
<ali1234> waiting for delivery on mac mini so i can try out Xcode
<Azelphur> waiting for steam to stop sucking and let me connect so I can actually play some games xD
<oimon> hmm having problems choosing a corporate drive imaging solution - any suggestions?
<Azelphur> oimon: dd?
<oimon> sorry forgot to clarify  ,for windows machines
<ali1234> "corporate drive imaging" - send CEO to golf course with digital camera
<Azelphur> ali1234: ++ XD
<oimon> enterprise :P
<Azelphur> oimon: but still dd just use a livecd
<ali1234> dd doesn't care what OS you use
<oimon> Azelphur: time is money
<ali1234> dd is the fastest and easiest to use software, and also the cheapest
<oimon> turns out that acronis requires 1 licence per machine that you image onto
<Azelphur> ^
<Azelphur> oimon: and it doesn't require licensing either.
<davmor2> ali1234: did you just say fastest?
<ali1234> you can also automate it with a script
<davmor2> oimon: Clonezilla
<oimon> ali1234: dd is not the fastest when you want to PXE boot multiple machines over network
<ali1234> drive imaging has nothing to do with PXE boot
<Azelphur> ^
<oimon> davmor2: have you used clonezilla in a corp. environment?
<oimon> ali1234: drive imaging solution does involve methods of delivery in an efficient manner to multiple machines
<Azelphur> ali1234: no it doesn't
<Azelphur> drive imaging involves drive imaging xD
<davmor2> oimon: Nope I have a friend who uses FOG in a corporate environment though
<oimon> tempted by clonezilla but if it's less than 100% good i look like a chump
<davmor2> oimon: clonezilla just seems to work, I've not tried the server version with the added bells and whistles though
<oimon> davmor2: in the dim and distant past (prob >3 years ago), i tried clonezilla and it failed on me..so i'm a bit wary
<davmor2> oimon: I've not had it fail to date but I've only used it for maybe a 2 years
<davmor2> oimon: http://www.fogproject.org/
<oimon> if clonezilla uses dd i don't see how it should have any probs
<DragonKeeper> Azelphur had to use unetbootin to make a usb from iso    usb creator didnt recognise  that o/s as a linux version o.O
<ali1234> "For unsupported file system, sector-to-sector copy is done by dd in Clonezilla."
<Azelphur> yea I usually use unetbootin :(
<Azelphur> :)*
<davmor2> oimon: it uses dd as a fallback if none of the others work, things like clonentfs are faster than dd
<oimon> sweet
<DragonKeeper> Azelphur slow as hell tho
<oimon> DragonKeeper: i had the same prob on lucid - something to do with syslinux bug?
<davmor2> oimon: My friend uses fog to remotely backup servers and desktops in order to redeploy on updated machines etc
<oimon> davmor2: i might try a image-off between the 2
<oimon> fed up with good money being spent on acronis licences
<DragonKeeper> oimon   said not a valid GNC/LINUX   then i just tried it anyway and laptop said cant  find a system file  so im on attempt 2
<dogmatic69> popey: only just joined facebook?
<davmor2> DragonKeeper: usb creator only works on Ubuntu live iso's if your trying something else it won't work
<popey> left and rejoined dogmatic69
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> too much withdrawals eh
<DragonKeeper> davmor2 ok  im trying #!
<popey> needed to ask my wife what was for tea ;)
<dogmatic69> lol
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: facebook is rubbish and convenient at the same time
<davmor2> popey: they've invented this wonderful devise a phone I think they call it :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: `what's wrong with cups and string?  new fangled gadgets
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: just dont add 5000 people
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: there is that......
<davmor2> MooDoo: string prices have trebled since you made that comment
<popey> davmor2: yes, I have facebook on my phone ;)
<MooDoo> is all this info about dropbox storing their keys on the server right then?
<davmor2> MooDoo: got to store them some where ;)
<MooDoo> he says reading this this morning - http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Apr-19.html
<DragonKeeper> Azelphur i just get a boot error with this iso o.O
<Azelphur> DragonKeeper: weird, lots of people here use crunchbang so maybe someone can help :p
<DragonKeeper> Azelphur i will try  it from a CD  i think it might be the laptop not booting from my usb
<Azelphur> :)
<DragonKeeper> the thing is ancient compared to me desktop
<DragonKeeper> but at lest it has a DL drive
<hamitron> popey uses facebook now? :-o
<markie-> hamitron, yea but he only accepts the friend requests from those he knows in real life, which is quite fair, i suppose
<gord> people accept friend requests from random people on facebook? o_O
<markie-> women do it all the time
<brobostigon> gord: or peoplei am interesred in, yes.
<DragonKeeper> Azelphur  just as i suspected .. disk works
<brobostigon> gord: i dont accept random people, no.
 * hamitron still facebook free
<hamitron> :D
<markie-> Yea I don't have one either, am i missing out?
 * brobostigon uses facebook as a valid communication and information gathering tool.
<hamitron> the BBC helped me decide to not use facebook
<hamitron> once the likes of them start quoting a facebook page for a program, it has gone too far
 * brobostigon has his facebook pretty locked down.
<Azelphur> gah, steam is stupid :(
<Azelphur> "Cannot connect to the steam network" <Retry> <Start in offline mode> *clicks offline mode* "Cannot connect to steam network"
<hamitron> so I've decided, not using anything that requires farcebook
<markie-> some people find love on facebook and marry, and then go on to live very happy lives :)
<dogmatic69> hamitron: i wish i could use twitter/fb to log in
<popey> most dont
<hamitron> dogmatic69: to login to what?
<dogmatic69> bbc
<dogmatic69> im the opposite, if it does not have oAuth/openid I'm not really interested
<hamitron> I can't see how having to login to pages helps make information freely available to the majority
<hamitron> and I don't like putting all my trust in 1 site/company
<dogmatic69> the login is just to show you recommendations
<dogmatic69> for the bbc one
<hamitron> it is still dangerous making 1 site a standard for the whole of the internet
<dogmatic69> well stackoverflow are good, they have almost all + openid that you can host your self
<hamitron> putting aside the attitude of the owner, it makes one big fat target
<hamitron> dogmatic69: openid isn't something I have a problem with
<hamitron> :)
<dogmatic69> i just dont like filling out 10k signup forms
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> but I still think the bbc should not be giving out websites for their programs as www.facebook.com/someprogram
<dogmatic69> anyone know how to scp a file when ssh needs -i <key> in it?
<dogmatic69> scp <source> ssh -i <key> <user>@<server>:~/ says permission denied
<dogmatic69> ssh -i <key> <user>@<server> works though
<dogmatic69> nobody :(
<hamitron> does it need ssh in it?
<dogmatic69> idk
<dogmatic69> does not work witout it
<hamitron> scp <source> -i <key> <user>@<server>:~/
<dogmatic69> nope
<dogmatic69> permission denied
<dogmatic69> its not using the -i bit
<hamitron> what about putting the <source> after the key?
<dogmatic69> tried that too
<dogmatic69> ah well, got to go now
<dogmatic69> getting kicked out
<dogmatic69> thanks
<hamitron> bbl, food
<hohoho> someone from the uk?
<Azelphur> hohoho: most of the people here are?
<czajkows1i> ivanka: ping
<ivanka> hello czajkows1i
<czajkows1i> ivanka: poke luisbg on irc just told him
<ivanka> czajkows1i: thank you! Someone has volunteered to help me out but will ping luisbg too
<czajkows1i> ivanka: he's on irc waiting on a pm from you now
<ivanka> czajkows1i: we are chatting
<czajkows1i> sweet
<czajkows1i> I have a use :)
<brobostigon> wow, onthe news theyjust said, in southampton, there are 21 tesco's stores, amazing.
<Azelphur> need moar tesco.
<brobostigon> hmm.
<brobostigon> imagine the stifled competition in southampton, competition willbe non-existant.
<gr33npeace> afternoon all
<gr33npeace> installing ubuntu on an acer aspire 1551 at the moment, but can't connect to the wifi.  the "rfkill list" function says it's soft-blocked... but "sudo rfkill unblock all" doesn't get me anywhere
<gr33npeace> any pointers?
 * hamitron isn't coding atm
<hamitron> geeez, too much email
<hamitron> :(
<hamitron> unread emails going up 5 per day
<davmor2> hamitron: only 5 my god your a wimp man
<hamitron> davmor2: I get more than that, I am just not reducing my backlog :)
<hamitron> had a lot of orders recently, so flooded with invoices to print
<Azelphur> hmm, this years ubuntu party venue seems smaller than last years by the photos xD
<Azelphur> or are the photos lies?
<hamitron> party?
<Azelphur> hamitron: /topic xD
<hamitron> on the edge of the world \o/
<AlanBell> Azelphur: it is apparently quite large and spread over three floors
<AlanBell> I didn't go to the one 6 months ago, but the one 12 months ago was rather smaller
<Azelphur> AlanBell: yea I went to 9.04 and it was jam packed :D
<Azelphur> but yea 3 floors sounds better
<hamitron> reckon going to the release party, and its costs could be put down as a business expense?
<hamitron> Azelphur: you use wine on 64 bit ubuntu?
<hamitron> tbh, seems a lot do according to the appdb
<hamitron> so :)
<X3N> guy on train next to me is using ubuntu on an aspire one
<shauno> guy on the train next to me keeps trying to read over my shoulder :/
<hamitron> shauno: type something rude and offensive
<hamitron> "HEY YOU NOSEY *, LOOK AWAY!!!"
<X3N> shame i dont have any ubuntu stuff on me
<shauno> hamitron: lol.  I kid :)  just thought it'd be a funny mental picture if they were both in here
<hamitron> ah :))
<hamitron> y brain is fried :/
<hamitron> my*
<X3N> hah
<hamitron> I moved 2 bags of pea gravel yesterday around the back of the house, and today 7 sacks of flasking plaster up into loft
<DragonKeeper> whats a good program to stream video to another pc  ?
<hamitron> hurting all over
<hamitron> vlc
<hamitron> well, vlc is easy
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> prob not the best or even good
<DragonKeeper> i mean like media centre kinda thing ,,, same as windows media centre does
<brobostigon> ffmpeg which vlc uses,is a good streaming medium.
<X3N> rygel
<hamitron> brobostigon: I found it lacks quality, or did when i tried
<X3N> is a really good media server (upnp)
<hamitron> right, brain is dying, need coffee
<n1md4> hello.  Anyone had a problem with empathy, one where you can't access the account settings?  I click on accounts, but nothing happens!
<hamitron> brb
<brobostigon> hamitron: i havent tried it in a while, but last time i did, it streamed the video iget with get_iplayer, same quality over my lan.
<DragonKeeper> ill try rygel  ty
<brobostigon> !info rygel
<lubotu3> rygel (source: rygel): GNOME UPnP/DLNA services. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.8.0-1 (maverick), package size 425 kB, installed size 1340 kB
<ali1234> i approve of this
<ali1234> most upnp solutions leave out the mediarenderer part, which makes them useless
<ali1234> this one doesn't
<DragonKeeper> how would i connect to rygel from another pc ?
<shauno> blah.  NTL playing silly buggers again
<hamitron> :/
 * DJones is shocked to read that Elizabeth Sladen has died
<MartijnVdS> DJones: where do you read that?
<DJones> BBC breaking news
<DJones> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13137674
<MartijnVdS> :(
<dwatkins> Yeah, she was awesome, and will be missed.
<Azelphur> http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/11/04/19/1736244/Skynet-Becomes-Aware-Launches-Nuclear-Attack
<Azelphur> oh dear, we're screwed xD
<gord> hrm, i seem to have a weird video file. its encoded at around 133kbps but streaming it at around 1.5mbps causes xbmc to stutter and buffer all the time...
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Elisabeth Sladen - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/04/19/elisabeth-sladen/
<Seeker`> Portal 2 \/
<Azelphur> Seeker`: doesn't work for half the planet :D
<Seeker`> wut?
<Seeker`> why not?
<dwatkins> Azelphur: it doesn't?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1847517
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<popey> lol FAT32
<popey> it should say...
<Azelphur> "Anything not NTFS" :P
<popey> "Originally Posted by BurtonJ
<popey> Are you from the past?"
<Seeker`> Hmm
<Seeker`> like I said
<Seeker`> Portal 2 \o/
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> would be \o/ if I could play it :(
<dwatkins> Azelphur: thanks, I'm waiting for it to decrypt, but have an hfs root disk...
<Seeker`> Its goooooooooooooooooooooood
<Azelphur> yay there's a valve reply on that thread that they are working on the issue
<Azelphur> so hopefully it'll be fixed in an update :D
<dwatkins> Azelphur: yeah, I hope so - I imagine it's a bit embarassing considering the number of people likely to be affected
<popey> /6/5
<popey> bah
<Azelphur> hehe
<dwatkins> Chances are there is a significant percentage of players hit by this, therefore it's in their interst to pull-out all the stops and work their behinds off to get it sorted asap
<dwatkins> *interest
<Azelphur> obviously since I'm using ext4 and wine, it doesn't work for me xD
<Seeker`> really? How many people use FAT32 still that don't have an NTFS drive at all?
<Azelphur> Seeker`: don't most external drives ship as FAT32 now days?
<Seeker`> why are people installing games on external drives?
<Azelphur> because portal is pretty big and a lot of people buy machines with small internal drives
<Azelphur> and an external one is a easy solution to that
<Seeker`> :/
<Seeker`> Seriously? Computers came with 300GB HDDs 5 years ago
<Seeker`> 500GB is a small drive now
<Azelphur> Seeker`: and yet most pc shops still ship crap :D
<Azelphur> but yea when your running steam, 500GB isn't exactly a huge amount of space
<Azelphur> I know people with 4TB game collections on steam, it isn't that uncommon
<Seeker`> Move something you aren't playing to the external drive then
<Seeker`> you can't be playing 4TB of games at the same time
<ali1234> "hey they last 1000 games i downlaoded sucked, maybe the next one will be good"
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> Seeker`: shuffling games is totally the answer :D
<gord> eh i have a lot of steam games, wouldn't say it eats up more than 500mb though
<ali1234> 500mb is like 1 game
<ali1234> not even a very big one
<ali1234> you meant gb right?
<Azelphur> ali1234: more like a 40th of a game
<gord> of course
<Azelphur> games usually pop 20-40GB now
<Seeker`> 40GB? Not likely
<gord> ... no they don't
<Azelphur> sure they do
<Seeker`> 7 DVDs worth?
<ali1234> 40GB for a game... no
<gord> 20gb is an exception, most still hit 4-8gb
<Azelphur> ali1234: *points at blurays*
<popey> why not just delete the games if you're not playing them
<gord> thats only ps3 exclusive games that hit that Azelphur
<ali1234> unless you count the orange box and all extras as "a game" then no
<Seeker`> Azelphur: link me to a PC game shipped on a Bluray rom amazon or play
<Azelphur> ali1234: WoW for example is 23.8GB :D
<Seeker`> Azelphur: no, it isn't
<Seeker`> Azelphur: delete your cache folders and it'll shrink a lot
<Azelphur> ok then I'm imagining looking at the properties for my world of warcraft folder
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> cache folder is 16.2MB lol
<Seeker`> not that one
<shauno> wow's roughly half that.  most likely you've never cleaned out any of the patches it downloads
<Seeker`> The WTF one (I think)
<gord> i installed a game over the weekend and was shocked that it was 10gb, >6-8gb is still the exception
<Azelphur> but yea, normal users arn't going to be deleting the cache folder
<Azelphur> Seeker`: I dunno why your trying to debate it with me lol, you asked me why it's a problem and I told you :p
<Seeker`> You have 4TB of games you play regularly atm?
<Azelphur> No?
<Azelphur> and I never said I did :o
<ali1234> it's a problem because some guy can afford to buy 1000s of games on steam but is too cheap to buy a new HD which probably cost the same as 1 game
<ali1234> lulz
<shauno> fwiw my steam folder is just shy of 40Gb, and that's only a small handful of games
<hamitron> the 4Tb includes his pr0n collection ;)
<Seeker`> If you can't play portal 2, move something you won't want to play for the next 15 hours off the drive temporarily
<hamitron> like.... portal 1
<Azelphur> Seeker`: yea, I can't myself because I don't have any NTFS partitions and it'd be irritating to get one I'd rather wait :p
<Azelphur> but just pointing out that shitloads of people can't play atm and it took up until a few minutes ago to figure out it was FS related
<hamitron> won't only Mac users be affected?
<Azelphur> hamitron: and Linux *Waves*
<hamitron> not officially supported ;)
<Azelphur> hamitron: and most of the people who install games to an external HDD because they are usually FAT32
<shauno> it's not affecting mac users, we don't use fat32 :p
<ali1234> heh, so basically they royally screwed up the release?
<ali1234> is this why it fails in wine too?
<Seeker`> ali1234: "royally screwed up"?
<Seeker`> If you are installing games you currently want to play to an external drive, you are doing it wrong
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, It seems to be the same issue
<hamitron> how dare you Seeker`!!!!!
<hamitron> sub 3 ftw ;)
<hamitron> usb*
<ali1234> i would say that "fails to run from filesystems other than NTFS" = royally screwed up
<gord> get, i just scp'ed a file from my media server to my netbook, whilst my netbook was cd'ed into the media servers samba share. concluding one giant pointless roundtrip =\
<Seeker`> what fs do macs run on?
<gord> should never do network admin late at night
<Azelphur> ali1234: me too :D
<Seeker`> Any window computer sold in that last, what? decade? shipped with NTFS. It works on Macs
<ali1234> i don't get it what are we arguing about anyway?
<ali1234> my computer didn't ship with NTFS
<shauno> macs use hfs+
<shauno> no ntfs here either :)
<Azelphur> ali1234:  me either XD
<popey> :( Elisabeth Sladen
<Seeker`> it fails on people installing stuff to external drives - I think it is very unliely that someone has a computer that is capable of running portal 2 that *has* to install portal2 on an external drive, and can't shift any other data on to an external drive
<Seeker`> ali1234: what did it ship with?
<popey> Seeker`: i can believe people install portal2 to an external drive
<popey> people hoard tv programmes and films
<popey> they fill their disks with crap they download
<Azelphur> exactly xD
<hamitron> :D
<popey> and chuck cheap usb disks at it to 'fix' the issue
<Seeker`> popey: yeah, but they could shift the crap to an external drive, rather than portal 2
<popey> they could
<popey> but they are normal people
<czajkowski> popey: had any luck with a mini 9 usb giving it life?
<popey> they put their clothes on the floor
<ali1234> typical computer still comes with what, 250GB hard drive?
<Seeker`> popey: you mean brainless? :P
<popey> not the cupboard where it makes sense
<czajkowski> jammy dodgers are way too addictive
<Azelphur> Seeker`: most people don't know that it's that causing the problem
<gord> ... clothes don't go on the floor?
<popey> no, just not aspergers sufferers
<ali1234> please try expanding the internal storage on a mac mini
<Azelphur> Seeker`: the game just hard crashes, or puts up a relatively useless error message
<Seeker`> ali1234: Â£300 computer from PC world comes with > 300GB
<popey> Seeker`: today
<ali1234> so what?
<Azelphur> so nobody actually knows this unless they are geeks that follow the forum thread :D
<popey> many people didnt buy their computer today
<gord> czajkowski, mentioning jammy dodgers when the shops are shut and i can not go out and buy some. you madam, are getting added to "the list".
<popey> Seeker`: stop being captain logic, it doesnt work
<ali1234> basically you're saying that anyone who doesn't know how to install a new internal hard drive deserves not to be able to play portal 2
<hamitron> captain logic, haha
<ali1234> and people call me a troll
<popey> awww, do they?
 * popey hugs ali1234 
<popey> I probably have in the past tbh ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> ali1234: I just call you a misrible git ;)
<czajkowski> gord: awwwwwwwwwwwww.... but surely there is a 24hr
<popey> not fair!
<czajkowski> gord: and you surely have a secret stash of cake somewhere in your place
<Azelphur> be interesting to see how well/if portal 2 runs in wine once this bug is fixed though :D
<Azelphur> Shame I wanted to show off about portal 2 working on day 1 in wine :(
<gord> i have a not so secret stash of cookie dough ice-cream...
<Seeker`> ali1234: No, i'm saying that the odds of someone filling the hard drive with stuff that absolutely *cannot* be moved to an external drive is slim, so instead of shifting the game to the external drive, they can shift some other data to the drive
<ali1234> have you ever tried copying 500GB of data over USB?
<hamitron> are there no computers with SSD only?
<ali1234> it takes several hours
<czajkowski> gord: I also have custard creams
<popey> alan@bishop:~$ grep ali1234\> irclogs/freenode/#ubuntu-uk.log | grep -ic ":)"
<popey> 730
<ali1234> and as pointed out, the people this is affecting may not even realise what the problem is
<Seeker`> ali1234: well, they only need to clear off enough for portal 2
<ali1234> but they don't know they need to do it
<Seeker`> ali1234: if that is what they want to play. 10GB doesn't take that long.
<hamitron> my 2.2ghz c2d comp came with a 80gb hdd, does that meet min spec?
<popey> Seeker`: you are conflating two issues
<Azelphur> popey: summary ali1234 smiles a lot? :D
<popey> the "can't" and "won't" move data
<popey> yes Azelphur, more than you'd think!
<ali1234> and the "don't know that's what they need to do so why would they"
<Azelphur> indeed
<gord> czajkowski, yeah thats okay to mention, i always have custard creams ;)
<Azelphur> Seeker`: how people are supposed to know to move data given a hard crash, or "R6025 -pure virtual function call" I don't know xD
<popey> i think you massively overestimate peoples skill with computers Seeker`
<hamitron> are they intending to fix the bug? or just put a check with readable error message in place?
<popey> this is common in the young :)
<popey> </patronising_git_mode>
<Azelphur> hamitron: all that was said is they are looking into it
<Azelphur> hamitron: I'd assume they'd fix it though.
<Seeker`> popey: I'm assuming that people that know how to use steam know how to google
<gord> valve are good people, they will fix it, whatever it is
<popey> Seeker`: BZZZZT fail
<hamitron> I'd guess it may depend on if it means redownloading the whole thing
<popey> you assume bad
<gord> Seeker`, seriosuly, never assume anything when it comes to what people can do with computers
<ali1234> well hey i'm glad i didn't preorder it
<popey> heh
<ali1234> i'm certain valve will fix this
<gord> just read the results from ubuntu/unity user testing we do at canonical, its very supprising
<hamitron> is there still a free pc copy with a ps3 copy?
<ali1234> but tomorrow it's going to be "portal 2 release marred by bugs" instead of "portal 2 release best thing ever" on all the tech blogs
<gord> hamitron, yup
<hamitron> gord: I am half tempted to get a ps3 copy.... just not got a ps3 :/
<Seeker`> ali1234: its been out for about 17 hours, and it hasn't been reported as "marred by bugs"
<Azelphur> gord: the one where most people crashed it? XD
<shauno> this is the first I've heard of it :)
<ali1234> i've heard a lot of people saying "OMG i can;t play portal 2"
<Seeker`> I've been hanging out in the ARG irc channels and haven't heard about the bug
<ali1234> but they are all using wine soo.....
 * hamitron sighs
<gord> hamitron, without the ps3 you won't get the pc copy
<hamitron> *why* are new game releases so bugged these days?
<hamitron> gord :(
<gord> you have to sign into steam on your ps3 and that activates the pc copy
<shauno> not seen it mentioned on quakenet yet
<hamitron> guess I need a free ps3 then
<Azelphur> http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/MH_Strife/valve-lul.png?t=1303249919 shiny screenshots xD
<Seeker`> "so bugged"? There is 1 bug.
<gord> Azelphur, they were running with pre-release code, that was a mistake, course it was gonna crash
<ali1234> one bug that we know of
<Seeker`> which affects some small subset of people
<Azelphur> gord: I agree
<ali1234> we are all talking about it you can bet other people are too
<Seeker`> ali1234: talking about it, maybe
<hamitron> is there any reason to not have ntfs on an external drive?
<shauno> Azelphur: here's my screenie; http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/Screen%20shot%202011-04-19%20at%2023.09.27.png
 * hamitron holds up the flame shield
<Seeker`> but how many people here are trying to play on a supported platform and are unable to when there is a viable solution?
<shauno> obviously the answer here is that windows is bad for gaming, and you should get a mac :p
<hamitron> shauno: :(
<Azelphur> shauno: fuuuuuuuuuuuu :p
<hamitron> no mac!
<ali1234> hamitron: i don't think games are more buggy
<Azelphur> shauno: I'm on Linux though and it won't work for me :D
<shauno> :)   the irony was too much for me
<ali1234> i think you just hear about it more because of the internet
<ali1234> and also, bugs get fixed a lot faster now too
<ali1234> like, if this was a bug in the boxed copy of the game and it was 1998, have fun waiting 2 months for a patch
<hamitron> ali1234: codemasters aren't fixing the bugs in F1 2010, said they will fix them for F1 2011 ;)
<ali1234> where as this will probably be fixed inside 24 hours
<shauno> negative impact is always disproportionate in volume.  anyone who isn't having problems relocating things to fat32 volumes is staying nice & quiet & busy with their new game
<ali1234> yeah well if you play those sporting franchises you can expect to get reamed for updates every year
<hamitron> ali1234: yeh :(
<ali1234> that's an entirely different issue
<hamitron> ali1234: but this was the first F1 game on PC since 2002!!!!!!!!
<hamitron> but I have personally found new games to have more major bugs on release
<shauno> has F1 changed much since 2002?
<hamitron> but I am maybe just unlucky with my selection of games
<hamitron> shauno: hell yes, I believe there have been a few overtaking cars
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> tbh, the PC hardware has moved on more than the sport....
<hamitron> which is why i wanted the upgrade
<shauno> only just picked up portal 'bout half hour ago.  I've been more excited about new tracks in minecraft :/
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> shauno: I'm waiting for bukkit update before I minecraft 1.5 :P
<shauno> good luck.  dinnerbone hasn't finished portal yet :p
<ali1234> i'm having fun playing eve... i just bought a covops ship
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> ohhhhhhhh
<hamitron> I should start eve again
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> turns out people hate them... park one in losec and watch the system clear like a lift with a fart in it
<hamitron> well, continue, not starting again ;/
<Azelphur> Bulldog: is in a pm with me talking about laptop screens being too small for his liking, hehe :D
<hamitron> ali1234: you not played eve much?
<Azelphur> not being short on screen space is fun :D
<gord> eve is waaaaaaaayy to interesting for me to ever play it, i love reading about it though
<ali1234> hamitron: never been around losec before, i always get scanned down in about 2 seconds
<ali1234> but now i can just sit there cloaked and they can do nothing lol
<hamitron> ali1234: I just love the pvp in eve, blowing up other peoples items.... and putting your own on the line :-o
<ali1234> i don't care for pvp except in the sense of avoiding it
<hamitron> I'm an industrialist who likes the risk :)
<Bulldog> Azelphur they are to small i normally have may windows open  ad now i have 4 open and it feels cramped
<hamitron> so i suppose I try avoid it technically
<Azelphur> Bulldog: haha, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/August%202010/2010-08-21%2023.53.23.jpg :p
<Azelphur> screen space, I'm not short on it :x
 * Bulldog is jealous
<Azelphur> hehe
<Bulldog> spec of desktop ?
<hamitron> ali1234: what you do in eve?
<Azelphur> Bulldog: i7 950 @ 3ghz, GTX 570 for the right pair of displays, 8800GT for the left. 40GB Corsair SSD, 1TB /home, 2x 500GB for giggles. 12GB DDR3 1600Mhz corsair memory.
<hamitron> and a small dick
<hamitron> ;D
<Azelphur> hamitron: ow, my ego :(
<Azelphur> lol
<hamitron> haha
<willy1977> it's not your ego you should be worried about :p
<Bulldog> lol  nice
<Azelphur> willy1977: inb4 it's your power bill
<willy1977> yeah!
<hamitron> Azelphur will sell his comp and get an i3 when you moves out and pays his own bills....
<ali1234> hamitron: everything except pvp
<Azelphur> hamitron: never :p
<hamitron> s/you/he
<ali1234> i just try to accumulate as much money as possible :)
<Azelphur> willy1977: you should have seen what I used to run, 4 x 17" CRT's
<ali1234> pvp is just a money sink
<Bulldog> Azelphur  how much damage that set you back ?
<hamitron> ali1234: how much you got?
<Azelphur> willy1977: now there's a power chugger :)
<willy1977> :o
<Azelphur> Bulldog: everything on the desk? probably 2k+ total
<willy1977> then there's the racking ;)
<hamitron> over how long
<Bulldog> nice.. little out my price rage  i wet for amd ad got full system for about 1.2k
<Azelphur> Bulldog: yea, I spent less than that on the PC
<hamitron> my comp upgrade cost Â£330 :)
<Azelphur> Bulldog: a large chunk of that was the monitors.
<willy1977> ooOOOO do I get a badge I've just been told I'm trolling yay 12 years or so with an internet connection that's all it's taken
<Azelphur> willy1977: welcome to the club!
<Azelphur> willy1977: are you a noob yet?
<willy1977> not sure... do I get another badge then?
<Azelphur> yes :p
<Bulldog> Azelphhur  yeah mine was about 1k new  and 200 for 32"
<hamitron> going by his name, I reckon he has it already Azelphur
<Azelphur> Bulldog: yea, I spent like Â£188 a piece on my 4x 26" so that cost a bit
<hamitron> ;)
<willy1977> definitely am - I'm a noob with linux I guess.
<Azelphur> willy1977: nooo, you have to have someone call you a noob in a game :p
<Bulldog> Azelphur  full hd ?
<willy1977> Azelphur: darn :(
<Azelphur> Bulldog: 1920x1200
<Bulldog> Azelphur  where did you buy from ? :P
<Azelphur> Bulldog: so total resolution 7680x1200 lol
<hamitron> :/
<willy1977> it's like geek porn chat channel on here...
<Bulldog> :P
<Azelphur> Bulldog: dabs.com iirc
<hamitron> 17" CRT @ 1280x1024 ;)
<hamitron> I win \o/
<Azelphur> hamitron: I used to run off 4 of those :D
<Azelphur> hamitron: those are the shit, has yours got tube burnout yet?
<hamitron> hmmmm?
<Bulldog> Azelphur  :) i think ill get a 3rd screen
<Azelphur> hamitron: you havn't seen tube burnout yet? :P
<Azelphur> Bulldog: I wouldn't advise it on Linux, at least not yet. >2 display support on Linux is terribad.
<hamitron> mine normally make a pop sound, go black and smell nice
<willy1977> hamitron: fraid not mate, I'm on 1280 by 768 here at the minute :p
<Azelphur> hamitron: after a really long time CRT's get tube burnout, the image gets darker and darker over time until it's impossible to see :)
<Azelphur> My laptop does 1920x1200 :D
<hamitron> Azelphur: I obviously abuse mine then :)
<Azelphur> I was very pedantic that I got a laptop with decent resolution
<Azelphur> hamitron: by the time I shifted my CRTs I was running xgamma -gamma 2 to make it visible
<willy1977> nah hamitron that's how mine went in the end hence I've commandeered an old 23" tv to use :p
<Bulldog> Azelphur  erm  i thought ubuntu supported quad graphics card
<ali1234> hamitron: only about 1B. but i buy a plex every month
<Azelphur> (xgamma -gamma 2 is also excellent hax for minecraft, it's like having a torch)
<Azelphur> Bulldog: sure for CUDA, but not so much for displays.
<hamitron> ali1234: i was finding earning 2 plex a month hard work
<Azelphur> Bulldog: what ever you do you are going to have to make big sacrifices to get a >2 display setup
<hamitron> but I was burning ships in pvp also :/
<hamitron> and I love ECM, so i was always primary target \o/
<Bulldog> Azelphur  what kida sacrifices
<Bulldog> kinda*
<Azelphur> Bulldog: basically it's a choice between terrible performance and no composite/compiz, or not being able to drag windows between screens.
<willy1977> right folks just a quick in and out (ooer missus) catch you around tomorrow.
<Bulldog> o.O
 * Azelphur waves at willy1977
<Azelphur> Bulldog: and the not being able to drag windows between screens option comes with enough bugs to fill a small lake with and nobody will be fixing those bugs any time soon.
<Azelphur> so yea my advice is wait till your using a driver that has full xrandr support before you fork out for another display as it'll be largely bricked in Linux until then.
<Bulldog> Azelphur  do you ru windows with the 4 screes then o.O
<Azelphur> (At least from what I understand, I'm still a bit murky on what exactly xrandr is)
<Azelphur> Bulldog: I took the not able to drag windows between screens + buggyness option
<Bulldog> Azelphur  how do you make use of the screes then
<Azelphur> you open the window on the relevant screen
<Bulldog> ahh
<Azelphur> Bulldog: it's like having 2 pcs side by side, you can't drag a window between them
<Bulldog> that sucks
<hamitron> Azelphur: why not run 2 then?
<Azelphur> hamitron: huh? :p
<Bulldog> lol
<Azelphur> oh why not run 2 displays?
<Azelphur> part masochist part because I'm so used to having 4
<hamitron> 2 comps
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> 2 comps because I don't really wanna run a second comp and I'm a masochist :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> This looks worth a punt... http://aful.org/communiques/share-your-operating-system-bundling-tales-with-the-eu
<Bulldog> hes got 2 laptops there as well
<Azelphur> I'm waiting on xrandr to save me
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: oO, I sound like I'm a perfect candidate I bought an Acer laptop and they refused to refund me
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: I spent ages on the phone, and afterwards they offered for me to pay them to remove Windows xD
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<hamitron> I don't agree with the EU interfering :
<hamitron> :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dell wouldn't play ball with us.
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: I don't remember the exact numbers but they said I had to use their courier service to ship it back to them so they could remove windows and refund me
<Azelphur> and cost of shipping was greater than the refund
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah. It's the same old story.
<Azelphur> xD
<Bulldog> lol
<hamitron> you could just buy stuff from somewhere else guys....
<TheOpenSourcerer> hamitron: This is about telling the EU that suppliers are in breach of Competiton rules.
<shauno> last I looked, 'somewhere else' was an incredibly short list of options
<Bulldog> ebay
<Bulldog> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> hamitron: somewhere elsewhere is extremely limited.
<hamitron> TheOpenSourcerer: there is nothing to stop a supplier from providing ubuntu exclusively
<TheOpenSourcerer> That isn't the point.
<shauno> it shouldn't have to be exclusively
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: do you have a template up for the form?
<Azelphur> so we don't all have to manually write it :p
<Bulldog> you ca get anything from Ebay :)  i oce saw someone trying sell their grannys teeth o.O
<Azelphur> Bulldog: the manufacturers ship the laptops with Windows on them, it's very difficult to get one without Windows on it
<TheOpenSourcerer> I do not use, nor want windows. But it is almost impossible to buy a decent spec PC without Windows. And since the Win7 EULA extremely hard to get any chance of a refund.
<Azelphur> you often can't get certain models of laptops without Windows on them period
<TheOpenSourcerer> Azelphur: Nope. Only just came across the page.
<hamitron> this is the entire problem with mass production for reduced costs.... everyone has come to expect cheaply built computers, so it is not as worthwhile for a smaller distributor
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: I see :p
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm off to bed now anyway. Will deal with this tomorrow. Just finished building another VM with openERP.
<hamitron> tesco sell audio equipment now, and not offer the full service a specialist audio store offers... but the majority going to tesco will force the specialist to close
<Azelphur> Bulldog: I sold that acer laptop on and got a higher spec machine for less money though :D
<Azelphur> My brother knows a dell outlet guy :)
<Bulldog> Azelphur  yh thats laptops. i usually go for desktops as ca build my self (no windows)  laptop i got today guy tried sellig me it with the hdd  but i chucked it away and got Â£15 off price then put my hdd in with linux
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> Bulldog: I mostly use a PC too, I just take my laptops with me when traveling
<Azelphur> Bulldog: I'm gonna try and get my hands on a inspiron mini duo, you seen those things? they are so cool :D
<hamitron> smaller than 15"?
<Bulldog> Azelphur  ahh  i dont travel much  i just wanted laptop to relax in garde with ad still watch tv/films  lol
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> hamitron: the mini duo is yea
<hamitron> how big?
<Bulldog> need get this dam n key fixed lol
<Azelphur> hamitron: it's a netbook
<hamitron> 10"?
<hamitron> 12"?
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr78DvvYK6w check it out :D
<Azelphur> not sure of the exact size
<hamitron> 13"?
<Azelphur> KEEP GUESSING THOUGH
<hamitron> bah, no bandwidth available atm ;/
<Azelphur> lol
<hamitron> downloading a dental equipment catalogue
<Azelphur> hamitron: the screen has a hinge half way up, and the LCD panel flips inside the screen frame to point backwards, then you close the lid and have a tablet
<shauno> http://pdp11.aiju.de/   this is interesting.  someone with far too much time on their hands has emulated a pdp-11 in javascript
<hamitron> kinda like the inspiron duo?
<Azelphur> hamitron: ..I am talking about the inspiron duo xD
<hamitron> inspiron duo is 15" init?
<Azelphur> it is?
<hamitron> bit pricey
<hamitron> :/
<Bulldog> 10.1" scree
<Bulldog> n
<Azelphur> hamitron: that's where I reckon my dell outlet guy can help me
<Azelphur> hamitron: we're proper evil to him :D
<Azelphur> plus it's my birthday sooon I'm totally using that as leverage
<hamitron> if someone sends one back ;/
<Azelphur> gief money off it's my birthday etc
<Bulldog> http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-duo/pda
<hamitron> I got mine from outlet
<Azelphur> hamitron: last time he gave me an alienware for Â£800 and a XPS M1730 for Â£550
<Azelphur> and it wasn't even my birthday!
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> only problem with the mini duo is the battery life isn't great (4 hours) and the battery isn't removable either.
<Azelphur> that puts me off a bit
<Bulldog> o.O
<Azelphur> My old netbook that I sold did 8 hours
<hamitron> it has dropped in price since I looked
<Azelphur> sacrificing 4 hours for a touch screen seems a bit much
<hamitron> was about Â£600 when i looked
<Azelphur> yea now it's more like Â£350ish
<Azelphur> I'm trying to get one for Â£300
<hamitron> Â£450
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I'mma try and get one for Â£300
<Azelphur> hamitron: can get it for 389 new :p
<hamitron> Â£496.97
<hamitron> with a few extra included
<Azelphur> hamitron: Â£363 new, and that's the best price for me I reckon I can't get it lower than that :)
<Azelphur> you suck at price hunting
<hamitron> from dell i am talking!
<hamitron> geez
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> but it is the sorta machine you get elsewhere
<hamitron> not much to config
<Azelphur> so since I can find it for Â£363 new I figure I can bash the dell outlet guy to give me a refurb unit for 3300 :D
<ali1234> i'll sell you a new one for Â£3300
<Azelphur> he does a good job refurbing them too, if they are bashed up he usually gets a new case for the laptop and does it up nice before selling it on, had a number of laptops off him :D
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's a lot :o
<Azelphur> that's most of my savings :D
<Azelphur> oops, I typed 3300 haha
<Azelphur> I meant 300
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-20
<hamitron> Azelphur: it is dual core with hyperthreading?
<hamitron> 4 threads?
<Azelphur> hamitron: I think so yes, it's the 1.5ghz dual core atom
<hamitron> nice
<hamitron> my i3 only has 4 threads :/
<ali1234> i3 is the low end line...
<hamitron> ali1234: I like them
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> it lets me play all the games Azelphur plays
<hamitron> just not all at the same time
<Azelphur> xD
<hamitron> I've found the 2gb to 8gb ram the biggest bonus tbh
<hamitron> although, the i3 did more than double my frame rates in games
<Azelphur> http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=X201T&hl=en&client=ubuntu&cid=3308812795842845777&os=tech-specs omg :x
<hamitron> F1 2010 runs 5x faster
<Azelphur> that's 12.1" with an i7 and convertible and does 12-14 hours hahaha
<hamitron> erm
<Azelphur> but no not buying that, not quite that crazy.
<hamitron> does that i7 really run at that clock?
<Azelphur> apparently so
<hamitron> the i7 in the alienware runs at 1.2ghz
<hamitron> but it does
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but Azelphur...
<hamitron> my i3 beats it
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> the turbo stuff is strange.  it's how fast it'll max out one core if it's not using the others
<hamitron> yeh
<Azelphur> hamitron: lol
<hamitron> I can see that meaning old games get the power they don't need, then new games have less cycles :/
<hamitron> just a load of tech to benchmark on old single thread games
<hamitron> or processes
<hamitron> this is why I picked an i3....
<shauno> mine claims to go to 3.3 .. never seen it do that tho
<hamitron> 3.2ghz i3 is always 3.2ghz
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=50067   this is mine :)
<hamitron> I have read disabling hyperthreading improves gaming though
<hamitron> shauno: posh :)
<hamitron> http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=48505
<hamitron> if I could get yours in a desktop pc for a reasonable price....
<hamitron> loads better
<hamitron> http://www.chaperlin.co.uk/catalogue/
<hamitron> how I save this? ;/
<ali1234> i bought AMD
<shauno> yeah.  welcome to flash :p
<ali1234> because the intel chip specs were too difficult to understand
<ali1234> AMD just puts everything in everything
<hamitron> AMD just run too hot for what I wanted
<ali1234> hamitron:  what the hell is that dentists catalogue??
<hamitron> and was not cost affective
<hamitron> ali1234: yes
<hamitron> well, sort of
<shauno> you really wanna download it?
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> 123mb
<shauno> it's 343 separate png's
<hamitron> can you see how they are named?
<shauno> hm, my bad .. jpg
<shauno> http://www.chaperlin.co.uk/catalogue/files/assets/pages/page0004_l.jpg
<hamitron> cheers
<shauno> (without the _l is the lower-quality thumbnail)
<hamitron> how did you find it?
<hamitron> for future reference
<shauno> so something like for I in `seq 001 343`; do echo http://www.chaperlin.co.uk/catalogue/files/assets/pages/page${I}_l.jpg >urllist ; done
<shauno> and then wget -i urllist
<shauno> webkit's inspector has a resources pane that'll show every url the page hits
<hamitron> kk
<shauno> chrome has the same (it's just webkit), and there's a few extensions on firefox that'll do the same  (pretty sure firebug does)
<shauno> er, and that'd be seq -w 001 343   (else it'll print 8, 9, 10 .. you want 008, 009, 010 ..)
<shauno> fairly sure you can get imagemagick to stick them all together into one pdf and finish the job they shoulda done in the first place ;)
<shauno> (altho if they'd just been sensible, you'd be able to do text searches.  but hey.  flash is shiny!)
<hamitron> had to change it to >> too
<hamitron> oh
<shauno> yeah.  and pad another zero.  I realised that after, but got bored of talking to myself, sorry :p
<dragonkeeper> why is chromium in the important updates
<hamitron> I was listening, just re-typing
<hamitron> I didn't notice the extra 0, and set it downloading in background
<hamitron> \o/
<shauno> I shouldn't have bought portal.  I've got stuff I actually need to get done before morning :/
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> many thanks for this shauno
<hamitron> my Dad will be very pleased
<hamitron> far too slow loading each page
<Azelphur> just had some fun talking to ##hardware about other netbook tablets lol
<ali1234> why do you want to rip a denture catalogue??
<Azelphur> the other choices so far seem kinda crap D:
<hamitron> ali1234: to read
<ali1234> madness
<hamitron> not if you make the things I suppose
<ali1234> you should just ring them up and ask them to send you a paper catalogue. "because your website is crap"
<hamitron> tbh, there is some cool equipment in there
<ali1234> it's the only way they'll learn
<shauno> that's actually a fairly sensible idea
<shauno> I mean, as much as everyone hates pdfs.  you get to keep the printed layout, and ctrl+F works.
<hamitron> I don't mind them offering an online flash thing, but offer a pdf also :/
<ali1234> ctrl-f doesn't *always* work
<ali1234> like for example when the PDF is just a bunch of images
<hamitron> my Dad tried to read it on 56k....
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> well, it should, in theory.  ofc if you just do convert *jpg catalog.pdf on those images, it won't.  but if it's rolled into the production workflow, it should
<shauno> and in a 300-odd page catalog, making search work strikes me as more valuable than page-curl effects
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> making it a smaller download too!!!!
<hamitron> 123mb is insane
<ali1234> perhaps not
<ali1234> pdf is just a container format...
<hamitron> I mean put text and text
<hamitron> rather than 1 huge pic
<shauno> speaking of 1 huge pic .. http://bbryson.com/bill/2007/10/12/have-you-ever-printed-a-boarding-pass/
<shauno> this made me chuckle.  guy prints his boarding pass on poster-sized paper.
<ali1234> the index of the catalogue goes by section/page so you can't even use it
<ali1234> what page does section 8 start on??
<hamitron> I tried using the CUPS pdf print driver first
<hamitron> it crashed
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> you're trying to make a pdf?
<hamitron> I will put them in 1 file after, yeh
<hamitron> the load time for a page is too long, that is the only reason for wanting to download it
<hamitron> ali1234: I don't download this stuff for fun ;)
<shauno> pretty sure imagemagick would do it.  really just "convert page*jpg output.pdf"
<hamitron> will try it
<hamitron> ty :)
<hamitron> not got the pics yet though
<Azelphur> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/04/19/2037225/Erasing-CDs-By-Using-150000-Volts-of-Electricity
<Azelphur> dude doesn't mess about xD
<shauno> heh, yeah, spotted that one earlier
<shauno> it went something like .. pfft .. yawn .. ZZZAAAAPPPPP ... do want!
<Azelphur> indeed
<ali1234> how about tim berners-lee slamming twitter and facebook?
<shauno> woah.  'convert' simply couldn't do that on my vps :/
<ali1234> imagemagick sucks
<hamitron> shauno: you are trying it?
<ali1234> it loads all the source into ram first
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> as uncompressed bitmaps
<shauno> tried convert *jpg afile.pdf.  got a sms telling me I had less than 5% swap left
<hamitron> hehe
<ali1234> 200mb of jpegs going to be around 20GB probably
<shauno> killled convert, now I'm using 50Mb ram & 50Mb swap
<ali1234> what you should do is turn each jpeg into a single page pdf then merge them all
<ali1234> but even then you'll get a pdf that's slightly larger than the sum of the jpegs
<hamitron> only want it in a pdf so he can turn the pages
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> first I'll go diving into dmesg to make sure nothing got slain :/
<ali1234> heh
<ali1234> gotta love linux oom
<shauno> in theory it shoulda reaped convert first.  but it's always sane to check
<hamitron> my pdf is smaller than the jpg
<hamitron> for page 1 anyway
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> if I pipe a command into another, what is the symbol to enter the text?
<shauno> not sure what you mean?
<hamitron> nvm
<hamitron> me neither
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> I hate scripting :/
<shauno> oh wow.  the result is a pretty ugly pdf :/
<hamitron> how do I merge loads of pdf?
<shauno> it should just be convert page*pdf output.pdf
<shauno> but that exploded for me :/
<ali1234> noooo
<ali1234> try pdfchain
<shauno> ah
<hamitron> that sounds kinda to my cpu
<ali1234> not sure what package it is in
<shauno> !info pdfchain
<lubotu3> pdfchain (source: pdfchain): a graphical user interface for the PDF Tool Kit. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.123-2 (maverick), package size 229 kB, installed size 764 kB
<ali1234> oh. there you go then
<hamitron> lets hope it is in debian ;)
<shauno> it's in universe, so it's probably "almost entirely straight from debian"  :)
<hamitron> oh ffs
<hamitron> some of the images didn't download fully
<shauno> heh, pdftk is installing java ..
<shauno> ls *jpg|wc -l
<hamitron> scrap that
<shauno> 343
<shauno> worked for me :/
<hamitron> http://www.chaperlin.co.uk/catalogue/files/assets/pages/page0342_l.jpg
<hamitron> had me worried
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> lol
<hamitron> no pdfchain is debian lenny?
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> it has pdftk
<hamitron> yey \o/
<hamitron> single file
<hamitron> ty guys
<shauno> I still think phoning them up and whining is a sensible option :)
<shauno> pdftk did work a treat tho.  the output I got from that looked a lot better, has the right number of pages, and didn't explode into 3 screens of errors
<shauno> (of course, being a mac user, I put "looks better" first :)
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> I'm gonna have to change it
<ali1234> how it looks is the most important thing for a pdf
<hamitron> and insert a blank page
<shauno> that page 342 does look well funky
<hamitron> atm, when i view with 2 pages side by side, it isn;t the right ones
<hamitron> sorted
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I moved page 342 to page 3
<hamitron> perrrrrrrrrrrfect
<hamitron> so where is this thing in chrome to look at all downloads?
<shauno> right-click and see if you have Inspect Element in the menu
<shauno> if you do, click it, then go to the Resources tab in the inspector that attaches to the bottom of the window
<shauno> click Enable, then reload the page
<hamitron> found it, ty
<hamitron> the network tab is even more cool
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> I'm used to using resources to figure out what's taking so long.  but the whole inspect is really quite nifty for some jobs
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> i've always looked at html source code to get things normally
<hamitron> but flash is just :(
<shauno> it's not just flash.  css & javascript will both have you wading to figure out where something's actually coming from
<hamitron> yeh
<shauno> flash is the worst, because looking harder doesn't help.  but as a whole, it's much easier to just ask the browser now
<hamitron> I don't like them either
<hamitron> yeh, I see now
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> you have saved me many hours of reading in the future
<hamitron> \o/
<shauno> I've been going nuts trying to screen-scrape something at work
<shauno> I need one value from a page.  seems simple enough.  except the whole thing is streamed javascript.  it's insane.
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> but I'm determined to figure it out, just because the guy who's product it is, told me it can't be done
<hamitron> :))
<hamitron> oh no
<hamitron> 59gb of 60gb used of my bandwidth
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> was 58gb earlier
<hamitron> but had to download all these jpeg and software to convert them
<shauno> it really is awful tho. the page itself is just a grid of cells.  with a timer function that keeps making the same request to the server
<shauno> and every time it does so, it gets a completely different answer
<shauno> then evaluates the javascript in the replies to populate parts of the page
<hamitron> is it a consistent cell?
<shauno> sort of
<shauno> it's got a different name every time the page loads
<shauno> but it's always the same relative to what cell the timer is fired from
<shauno> so when you're trying to do it yourself, you know what the timer is called, so you know what the resulting cell is going to be called
<hamitron> sounds doable then
<shauno> but to get the one value you want, you can't just ask for it.  you have to sit there polling the server over and over until one of the replies has something useful in
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> that's been my pet hate for a couple of weeks now.  the worst thing is, it's an internal product.  so there should be a perfectly sensible way to request the data we need.
<shauno> but apparently not :/
<hamitron> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/7-NETBOOK-MINI-LAPTOP-WIFI-WINDOWS-2GB-BRAND-NEW-BLACK-/250793776931?_trksid=p4340.m8&_trkparms=algo%3DMW%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D6%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8575023138927943348#ht_1515wt_1199
<hamitron> coming down in price :)
<hamitron> shauno: can't the guy modify the thing?
<ali1234> shauno: so it's ajax?
<shauno> they should be able to.  or just add a page that just spits out the 3 numbers we need.  but they won't
<shauno> ali1234, yeah
<ali1234> i will write it for you if you pay me. i'll charge half whatever they want
<shauno> heh, I'm not getting paid for it.  I'm just trying to make my job easier at work :)
<ali1234> oh right. internal
<shauno> sort of internal.  it's a mess
<ali1234> well rather than screen scrape it why not just figure out how to do the ajax call that gets the data?
<shauno> that's what I'm doing so far.  but you can't just request the cell you want
<shauno> you request changes, and if it's not there, it's not there.  wait a few seconds, then request changes again
<ali1234> well there must be an original call to get the first set of data
<shauno> it's always zero until it changes.  it's what it changes to that's important to us
<ali1234> so if it's "not there" you can assume it's zero?
<shauno> correct
<ali1234> is it like "number of printers that are currently on fire"?
<shauno> s/printers/customers/, yeah
<shauno> it's meant to be zero.  when it goes non-zero, we need to find out in a timely manner
<ali1234> but if it only shows changes
<ali1234> what happens if it changes to 1 and then stays on 1?
<shauno> we get fired :)
<hamitron> hehe
<ali1234> within a length of time it takes for the timer to expire and the page to update?
<shauno> the page they've deployed polls every 2 seconds
<ali1234> so you have 2 seconds to fix it before you get fired.....
<hamitron> a place I did some work, they gave staff warnings if they let the phone ring more than twice
<shauno> no, I mean they'll reflect changes within a few seconds
<ali1234> yeah but
<ali1234> the point is
<shauno> 2 minutes is the SLA where it goes from being 'an alarm' to 'a HR issue'
<ali1234> what happens if it changes to 1, then 1 second later you load up the page
<ali1234> and then it stays on 1 for half an hour
<ali1234> it never changed after you loaded the page so you will never be notified?
<shauno> if it's non-zero when you first load the page, it's in the first set of changes
<shauno> the requests that the app sends back have a sequence number, so it has some concept of state
<ali1234> so just poll with sequence number = 0 :)
<shauno> that might actually work.  I've been trying to emulate the app they've already got so far
<ali1234> it's a start anyway
<shauno> it'd be easy enough to try
<ali1234> another possibility is to run the whole entire thing in webkit and then dynamically pull from the DOM
<hamitron> right, off to bed
<hamitron> am deaded :)
<hamitron> o/
<Azelphur> http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/products/smartbook.htm
<Azelphur> omg...
<Azelphur> It's a netbook, tablet, mobile phone, PC, and secondary display wtf
<Azelphur> that's insane xD
<ball> hello emma
<ball> Is it stormy over by you?
<Azelphur> yay it's night lurker time :p
<ball> :-)
<ball> I'm using Ubuntu Netbook. Is there some way to get Firefox put back into the dock? I seem to have lost mine.
<Azelphur> open firefox right click it's launcher icon click keep in launcher
<ball> Firefox is running, but I don't have a launcher icon.
<Azelphur> I believe that's a bug, if an app is running it should show on the launcher/task switcher
<Azelphur> ball: I keep watching this video...I'm amazed by this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWbCF1ulBPY xD
<ball> Azelphur: My users would break that thing in a week.
<Azelphur> haha
<ball> What's the name for the thing that puts each X client's menu up at the top of the screen?
<ball> "Unity"?
<Azelphur> ball: you mean the launcher and stuff?
<Azelphur> in 11.04?
<ball> No, I'm using 10.something I think.  Hang on, I'll check.
<Azelphur> yea then unless your doing hackery there is no unity
<Azelphur> unity is new in 11.04
<ball> Linux derelict 2.6.35-22-generic #33-Ubuntu SMP Sun Sep 19 20:34:50 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
<ball> ^- Is that Ubuntu 10.10 ?
<Azelphur> that's your kernel version xD
<Azelphur> lsb_release -d
<ball> Description:Ubuntu 10.10
<ball> Whatever it is, it moves the menu up to the top of the screen.
<shauno> that's the global menu, but I didn't think it's meant to be in 10.10
<ball> I just looked at Unity on Wikipedia and it looks just like what I'm seeing on my screen.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Pirate Party wins debate in Kitchener Waterloo - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/pirate-party-wins-debate-kitchener-waterloo
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> morning all
<DJones> Morning
<MartijnVdS> https://twitter.com/#!/Queen_UK/status/60603720345468928
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all.
<MartijnVdS> \o TOS
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, Not sure about the acronym for my handle MartijnVdS ;-)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Not a Star Trek fan? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Huh?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: "TOS"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - I see. Thanks.
<scoundrel50a> hi, I was doing an update earlier, Maverick 10.10 and this appeared and wont go away. I have tried changing servers, but that doesnrt help. Anybody know how to get rid? http://imgur.com/KeGOe
<gord> scoundrel50a, have you tried checking those three items and pressing the install updates button?
<scoundrel50a> sorry thought that was a given, yes I have.
<scoundrel50a> It wont allow me to check them
<scoundrel50a> The rest of the updates went fine
<Guest17610> i have to say, unity has come leaps and bounds over the last time I installed it (unr)
<scoundrel50a> no ideas?
<Guest17610> whats your error scoundrel50a?
<scoundrel50a> I was doing an update earlier, Maverick 10.10 and this appeared and wont go away. I have tried changing servers, but that doesnrt help. Anybody know how to get rid? http://imgur.com/KeGOe
<scoundrel50a> Just did apt-get update and aopt-get dist-upgrade still nothing
<Guest17610> why can you not install from synaptic?  refresh and mark for install so to speak?
<scoundrel50a> I have neverf done that, ho do i install that from synaptic?
<Guest17610> what ubuntu are you running?
<scoundrel50a> 10.10
<Guest17610> if you go to pref or admin then select synaptic package manager.  once you are there click on refresh for repo update then click on mark button and it should sort out the rest for you
<scoundrel50a> ok, I'll give it a try, got synaptic open
<Guest17610> refresh and mark for update
<Guest17610> it should list all components that need updating including any kernel available for you :)
<Guest17610> any luck scoundrel50a?
<scoundrel50a> sorry, was just making sure, but that didnt work
<Guest17610> have you tried cleaning apt apt-get autoclean ?
<Guest17610> then updating, then upgrading
<eoke> Could somebody kindly paste bin me the output of "id" for a sudo user as I may have forgotten the -a when adjusting my groups?
<scoundrel50a> No I havent, I'll give that a go now
<Guest17610> eoke its 0
<eoke> I'm logged on and back in the sudoers groups it's all the additional groups I'm not trying to add.
<Guest17610> /etc/sudoers?
<Guest17610> theres also a user and group admin gui in the main menu iirc too
<eoke> I'm currently just in admin necessary for sudo but it's the other groups I'm after for a normal user in ubuntu 10.10.
<Guest17610> you can set sudo privillages for individual accounts if thats what your trying to do?
<scoundrel50a> well that didnt work, a load of stuff was remoived, but when I did a sudo apt-get updgrade it says it kept those three things back, most bizarre
<eoke> I can sudo it's just all the other group names I'm after.
<Guest17610> try sudo apt-get -f install to fix any broken packages then try upgrading
<scoundrel50a> ok, will do
<Guest17610> ah right eoke.. ill just get them
<eoke> When you install ubuntu your initial user is in a whole series of groups I'm not longer in them, the "id" command will list all of those groups
<eoke> Cheers Guest17610
<Guest17610> eoke : if you go to users settings, it has the ability to mod other accounts providing you have admi rights
<Guest17610> root*
<scoundrel50a> didnt do anything, said 0 upgraded, 0 installed 0 to remove 3 not upgraded
<eoke> Guest17610, I just don't know which other groups are normal that's why I'm after the list.
<shauno> eoke: I believe it's #EXTRA_GROUPS="dialout cdrom floppy audio src video lp src users"
<shauno> per /etc/adduser.conf :)
<eoke> Cheers shauno
<eoke> Excellent I didn't know that's where the defaults were kept time for a man of that. Thanks all.
<Guest17610> eoke theres loads sadly. i would boot in livecd and get them that way...
<scoundrel50a> any other suggestions
<Guest17610> scoundrel50a: is synaptic not updating the generic kernels?
<scoundrel50a> how can you tell?
<Guest17610> synaptic should download the kernel images
<scoundrel50a> I'll have a look
<scoundrel50a> ok, now I found something, against those three kernal there are greyed out exclamation marks, what does that mean?
<Guest17610> means there not available for you me thinks
<Guest17610> brb just check
<JamesTait> 'ello 'ello 'ello!
<scoundrel50a> ok, when I try to put mark for upgrade I get this message.....linux-generic:
<scoundrel50a>   Depends: linux-image-generic (=2.6.35.29.37) but 2.6.35.22.23 is to be installed
<Guest17610> this site seems to have the same problem http://superuser.com/questions/23797/grayed-out-ubuntu-distribution-updates
<scoundrel50a> did you read my last message, it shows an error when I try to mark for update
<scoundrel50a> different to the one you showed
<Guest17610> what error sorry are you getting?
<scoundrel50a> when I try to put mark for upgrade I get this message.....linux-generic:
<scoundrel50a> <scoundrel50a>   Depends: linux-image-generic (=2.6.35.29.37) but 2.6.35.22.23 is to be installed
<Guest17610> ah right
<scoundrel50a> so its not letting me update
<Guest17610> just install that kernel via synaptic then all should be well :)
<scoundrel50a> I'll try, one sec
<scoundrel50a> http://imgur.com/EKawa hope that works that shows what happens when I try to install via synaptic, and if you look in the top left corner, it shows the three kernals greyed out
<Guest17610> try sudo dpkg -configure -a && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade wonder if reconfiguring the packages will help?
<MartijnVdS> Guest17610: it might
<scoundrel50a> ok
<scoundrel50a> got an error
<scoundrel50a> will pastebin it
<scoundrel50a> http://paste.ubuntu.com/596443/
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: try dpkg --configure (two - signs)
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: so: dpkg --configure -a && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
<scoundrel50a> ok
<scoundrel50a> http://paste.ubuntu.com/596446/
<scoundrel50a> but I dont have any processes open apart from this and a terminal
<scoundrel50a> coulld it be what I have ticked in Software Sources>Other Software
<Guest76701> other sources probs will have dependency issues
<scoundrel50a> this is really annoying,
<scoundrel50a> MartijnVdS: that command you gave, was it written out properly, what other processes could be blocking it
<scoundrel50a> this just appeared http://paste.ubuntu.com/596455/
<shauno> dpkg uses error message.  it's super effective!
<shauno> (the -o error is because you want --configure, not -configure.  -configure  tries to use -c, -o, -n etc as options
<scoundrel50a> so would you know why I am unable to upgrade?
<shauno> I can't tell from that.  the complaint about locks is most likely because the graphical upgrade thingie is also using dpkg
<scoundrel50a> I eventually got this dpkg --configure -a && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade to work went through the process and still it says 'linux generic, linux-headers-generic, linux-image-generic' kept back, not upgraded.
<shauno> yes.  upgrade won't pull in kernels, because thru a fun twist of packaging, they require dependencies.  if you install them by name  (apt-get install linux-generic linux-headers-generic linux-image-generic), it 'should'
<scoundrel50a> http://paste.ubuntu.com/596471/ that is what happens when I enter what you suggested, how do you repair broken packages?
<popey> scoundrel50a: because you're using "sudo apt-get upgrade"
<popey> you should not do that
<popey> you should use "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
<shauno> usually if the dependencies aren't installable, you just caught the repo with it's pants down.  update again will usually clean that up
<scoundrel50a> I think I already tried that, but will try it again
<scoundrel50a> yep, same thing those three kept back
<scoundrel50a> http://paste.ubuntu.com/596472/
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: sudo apt-get install linux-generic linux-headers-generic linux-image-generic
<scoundrel50a> http://paste.ubuntu.com/596475/
<DJones> Is it just me, or does it look as though Apple have pinched the Unity workspace switcher for the iphone based on this "prototype" report http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/39652/white-iphone-4-unearthed-64gb
<shauno> that looks a lot like expose to me
<shauno> if it looks familiar, it's because 90% of unity is a bad rip from osx :p
<DJones> Heh
<kazade> does anyone know if there is some kind of clever command that can restore Ubuntu to its default package set? (e.g. remove installed packages and reinstall removed packages)
<Psychobudgie> kazade, not that I know of
<Psychobudgie> kazade, all I can think of is to remove any third party repos, and do a complete reinstall of ubuntu-desktop from synaptic
<bigcalm> kazade: feature request? :)
<Psychobudgie> it all depends what you have installed
<DJones> The only way I've heard of is a reinstall, I;m sure its been requested as a feature though, similar to Windows rollback
<Neoti> finally i just got through the the core network team in Virgin media about packetloss on mine and other peoples lines ... from the new Mb and Mb services with the new modems.... and i pointed out that on people who have the old modem and old 20Mb service there is next to no packet loss.... took me and hour and 40 mins to finally get through the the right department tho ...
<Psychobudgie> an easier route is to back up your user folder to an external device, reinstall from a cd and copy it all back
<kazade> bigcalm, it's something I've thought about since at least Dapper :)
<kazade> it would be nice to do: sudo apt-get dist-revert :D
<Bulldog> im in search of a new linux distro that is lightweight for installation on a laptop. any recommendations ?
<DJones> Bulldog: lubuntu or xubuntu?
<bigcalm> You're asking for a distro other than Ubuntu in an Ubuntu channel?
<bigcalm> Ah, I forgot about the variants
<Bulldog> whats differences with the variants ?
<popey> kazade: tried sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<popey> note the caret
<Psychobudgie> popey, that might work but he would have to remove any third-party repos first
<DJones> Bulldog: Mainly different desktop environments, xfce and lxde (I think) both lighteron memory than gnome/kde
<Bulldog> DJones  ok ty ill have a look into them
<bigcalm> Aparently 6 days left to apply for Olimpic tickets. I have a Visa card, but I'm somewhat disgusted that one can only get tickets with Visa. Anybody going?
<bigcalm> Olympic
<popey> Psychobudgie: no, he wont
<popey> it wont remove any extra stuff though actually
<DJones> Bulldog: I'm looking at installing lubuntu on an old laptop with only 512mb of ram as an experiment, its just about capeable with ubuntu+gnome, but struggles along a bit because of memory issues
<Bulldog> DJones yes same issue  this laptop has 512mb
<Psychobudgie> popey, it will if any of the files ubuntu-desktop requires are superseded by versions provided third-party
<nbookham> I nedd a driver for a belkin f8t016 bluetooth dongle. belkin have been no help at all
<nbookham> sorry, typo
<Psychobudgie> nbookham, have you tried googling it
<Psychobudgie> I'm pretty sure that typing 'f8t016 linux' would return something
<DJones> Bulldog: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu According to that, lubuntu will "run" on an PII with 128Mb of ram as a minimum, so 512Mb could well be a luxury
<popey> Psychobudgie: good point
<Psychobudgie> Bulldog, I use maverick on an hp8300 series laptop which has 512mb of ram and it works nicely
<shauno> 'run' is always a bit vague.  the difference between the DE being happy, and being able to use firefox/openoffice/etc
<Psychobudgie> Bulldog, I had performance issues on it however due to the video drivers
<gord> whenever someone talks about hp laptops, my brain always assums they are talking about printers
<Bulldog> Psychobudgie i use maverick on my desktop  i was just looking for a slight change for the laptop
<Psychobudgie> Bulldog, np, however if you are getting performance issues on the laptop, check the video drivers, especially if it's an ati gpu in it
<Psychobudgie> Bulldog, you can save yourself weeks of headaches checking memory, dma settings, distro version, hd, etc
<Psychobudgie> I'm speaking from experience on that part
<Bulldog> Psychobudgie thanks will do
<Psychobudgie> I'm currently keeping my fingers crossed that someone spins off a gubuntu
<DJones> Psychobudgie: I had the same thing with nvidia drivers, when I upgraded to 10.10, web browsers would just hang. But a fresh install later on worked perfectly with minimal problems
<Psychobudgie> DJones, mine was performance related. HD would be constantly polling and opening anything took an absolute age. Turned out the video had stolen all the laptops memory. OS was working with 128mb. Clean install of the latest ATI drivers and it was fixed.
<DJones> Psychobudgie: Ouch
<Psychobudgie> took me ages to find the problem
<Psychobudgie> or the solution rather
<Psychobudgie> everything pointed to dma not running but you learn something new
<Psychobudgie> like i'm currently learning that gnome 3 is actually pretty good
<david__> yeah! lets hear it for Gnome3
<popey> still not got round to trying that yet
<DJones> Psychobudgie: I'm getting used to unity, I like it /me ducks
<popey> i quite like bits of unity
<popey> getting used to the foilbles
<Psychobudgie> been using it here from the ppa for a few days now and it is miles better than unity
<david__> I've tried both unity (beta2) and Gnome3 (alpha) and in my opinion not much between them
<Psychobudgie> to be frank it makes unity look like it was designed by a 20 year old college grad
<Psychobudgie> g3 is far more user friendly
<Psychobudgie> the mouse is still an integral part of the ui
<Psychobudgie> in unity it feels like it's been bolted on
<shauno> that might be a bit harsh, but to be fair, the gnome team have been knocking this stuff out for 10+ years
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> popey: Moo!
<DJones> The screenshots I've seen of g3 looked similar to unity (I've only seen a couple though)
<shauno> they've got to have figured out a few things on the way
<david__> yes but I like the fact that you can switch between apps on different virtual desktops sinly using alt-tab
<Psychobudgie> DJones, the screenshots don't do it justice
<Psychobudgie> I installed it expecting to bring on the hate and I've found myself bringing on the love
<david__> lol
<DJones> Psychobudgie: I can understand that, it'd be like looking at a screenshot of compix & rotate cube etc, just wouldn't be the same
<Psychobudgie> swing the mouse to the top left corner and bring up the windows and desktops then click on the one you want
<Psychobudgie> it's a one click job
<david__> i think the only reason ubuntu developing unity is that gnome3 doesn't do compiz
<DJones> Are the hardware/graphics requirements for gnome 3 higher or lower than for unity, or about the same
<Psychobudgie> david__, that's a good thing
<Psychobudgie> david__, compiz is as stable as my marriage to be quite fair
<david__> lol
<Psychobudgie> DJones, about the same
<david__> well stop using online porn and marriage might improve lol
<Psychobudgie> the porn is all that's holding it together
<david__> lol
<shauno> I'm getting the odd mental image of someone taking the dropshadow to counselling
 * Psychobudgie goes and cries in the corner
<Psychobudgie> you should check out some of the videos on gnome3.org
<Psychobudgie> see it actually working
<david__> i've seen a lot of ubuntu users on forums bashing unity but I bet after a few months after release a lot of those users will like it
<Psychobudgie> even they don't do it justice
<Psychobudgie> david__, they won't
<david__> how do u know?
<Psychobudgie> david__, unity is a netbook desktop environment
<popey> i see a lot of people who have never used unity, bashing it :)
<Psychobudgie> it is not a desktop for desktops
<david__> its started off for netbooks but canonical have developed it for other computers
<popey> http://www.shermann.name/2011/04/unity-and-2x-24.html
<Psychobudgie> it's the same thing
<david__> is it?
<Psychobudgie> it's too heavily keyboard centric for desktops
<david__> but then i've never used unity on a netbook
<david__> don't have a netbook
<Psychobudgie> gnome have spent ages finding a happy medium between mouse and keyboard and it seems to hit the spot
<directhex> DJones, higher. gnome shell requires a 3d accelerator
<DJones> david__: I came to unity having read the reviews/comments and was expecting a nightmare, but I was pleasently surprised at how good it was on my laptop
<Psychobudgie> unity is miles from being ready
<directhex> DJones, so you can't test shell in a VM :)
<Psychobudgie> unity is good on a laptop where a keyboard centric os is beneficial, on a desktop not so much
<david__> well maybe when it reaches 11.10 or 12.04 unity will be mature
<DJones> directhex: Interesting, I might have a look at a fedora live cd just to see what it looks like
<directhex> david__, i'm installing 10.04 for nontechnical staff. by 12.04, either unity will be finished, dead, or at the very least gnome3 as an alternative fixed & ready for humans
<david__> yeah my thoughts as well
<popey> +1
<scoundrel50a> I have tried twice now to ge it to work on my new laptop, and nothing. I had installed netbook edition, which is basically the same on my netbook, and I found the look ok, but it was time consuming, and restrictive. The left bar couldnt be moved, the icons were difficult to change, it took  6 clicks to get to some things you needed. Its still very buggy for a something that has just a week to be released. I may not be able to use it, if it
<scoundrel50a>  doesnt sort the backlight problem out.
<Psychobudgie> seriously, the first time you sweep your mouse to the top left corner and then click on the window you wish to use or desktop you wish to check, or float over the bottom right to pickup notifications you'll think ' I really want to hate that, but I don't'
<Psychobudgie> scoundrel50a, right on the money
<popey> it's certainly a shame that canonical/ubuntu and gnome didnt see eye to eye on UI stuff
<david__> u talking about gnome3?
<popey> but it's not a disaster
<popey> for anyone
<directhex> unity as was on 10.10 is such a huge disaster i installed kubuntu on the wife's netbook instead
<popey> scoundrel50a: so use the classic desktop then?
<Psychobudgie> I haven't as of yet read a favourable review of unity from any of the online sources
<david__> wonder how long gnome2 will be packaged with ubuntu as its no longer being developed
<directhex> david__, gone by 11.10
<directhex> david__, gtk2 will linger for a while though
<Psychobudgie> the register this morning actually prompted people to try fedora as an alternative as it has stuck with gnome3
<david__> so will ubuntu start shipping unity with gnome3?
<Psychobudgie> and theregister are ubuntu fanboys
<scoundrel50a> backlight wont turn on even in recovery mode. Spent 4 hours last night, with help from two people on #ubuntu+1 to get it to work, and nothing, and all through, we were getting loads of people coming on with the same problems, its not ready, full stop for a lot of people
<scoundrel50a> even installed using alternative cd, still wouldnt work
<popey> scoundrel50a: your backlight issue is separate from unity
<popey> i dont even know what your backlight issue is
<scoundrel50a> no its not, ist usity problem
<scoundrel50a> we prooved that yesterday
<scoundrel50a> same for a lot of people coming on to #ubuntu+1 with the same problem
<Psychobudgie> scoundrel50a, does the backlight work prior to unity loading?
<david__> i read yesterday on forums that unity is going to be ubuntu's vista and it appears to be correct from wot you say
<popey> if people dont think unity is ready they can:-
<popey> a) use classic desktop
<popey> b) use 10.04
<popey> c) use 10.10
<popey> d) help fix it
<scoundrel50a> I am using the same machine to talk to you now, it works fine in 10.10,
<popey> e) all of the above
<Psychobudgie> popey, what they'll likely do though is use another distro
<david__> f) use xubuntu
<david__> g) use kubuntu
<david__> h) use lubuntu
<scoundrel50a> saying they can use classic desktop is was not an option, as soon as you try to load Natty, backlight goes off
<popey> Psychobudgie: which is fine
<directhex> david__, 11.10 will ship with gnome 3 components, but likely not shell. all the gnome apps are still part of ubuntu - tomboy, gedit, empathy, etc
<popey> david__: yay! choice!
<gord> the only people whoa re gonna go use another distro are the people who are being loud and obnoxious about the whole thing, people use ubuntu for a hell of a lot more than its interface
<X3N> i) use gnome shell ;)
<david__> yeah
<popey> this should be a document
<Psychobudgie> we should have a referendum
<Psychobudgie> heh
<Psychobudgie> unity or gnome3
<X3N> Psychobudgie: there have been a lot of polls on ubuntu forums
<Psychobudgie> use av for the voting
<david__> or LXDE
<directhex> Psychobudgie, AV == FPTP when there are only 2 choices
<X3N> Psychobudgie: most of them come out in favour of gnome/gnome shell
<bigcalm> Psychobudgie: we are under a dictatorship, not a democrasy
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/Choices
<david__> lol
<david__> revolution!
<scoundrel50a> gord: that is a bit unfair, I use Ubuntu, I get a lot of problems using it, sometimes they dont get sorted, like the one I got this morning, I would say its more likely frustration that sends people to other distros. Not loaud and obnoxious.
<directhex> david__, feel free to fork it
<Psychobudgie> bigcalm, maybe we should demonstrate outside his house
<Psychobudgie> get the un involved
<Psychobudgie> at worst we'll get a food parcel and interviewed by kate adie
<david__> lol
<bigcalm> Psychobudgie: I'm happy with how things are going. I'll leave it to others to complain if they need to
<david__> she no longer does interviews does she? lol
 * shauno is gonna google katie adie before considering this
<shauno> picketing the IOM in cannoes doesn't sound fun
<Psychobudgie> one look at me standing there with my pitchfork and torch and she won't be able to help herself
<gord> bigcalm, the problem with leaving it to others to complain is that you get a very one sided argument =\
<czajkowski> gord: jammy dodgers!
<popey> \o/ jam
<popey> Jam trousers!
<Psychobudgie> lets be honest here, ms is as likely to listen to us as he is to admit unity is a netbook gui
 * popey hugs gord
<gord> saying jammy dodgers in the middle of a work day when i can't go out and get some? added to the list twice.
<czajkowski> pff gord there is no pleasing you I gave you two reminders now, you should have gotten some by now
<gord> there is never an excuse for not having jammy dodgers =\
<bigcalm> gord: I'm not complaining because I nothing to complain about :)
<david__> custard creams
<davmor2> czajkowski: Big hugs
<Psychobudgie> bah, you can keep your jammie dodgers
<DJones> If gord is the jammie dodger, does that make czajkowski Fagin?
<Psychobudgie> there is only one king of biscuit
 * Psychobudgie reaches for a chocolate hob nob
 * DJones eats a bourbon cream
 * gordonjcp has a coffee, and contemplates making a cheese toastie
<Psychobudgie> ooh, my ps3 copy of portal 2 comes with the pc version free
<Psychobudgie> yay for valve
<kazade> Sigh, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13141986
<Psychobudgie> now all they need to do is create a native linux engine and I'm laughing
<gordonjcp> Psychobudgie: yeah
<gordonjcp> Psychobudgie: to be fair, it works pretty damn well in Wine
<gordonjcp> I'd *love* a truly native Linux port of the Source engine and Steam
<gordonjcp> but the fact that they actually seem to *care* about not breaking Wine is the next best thing ;-)
<davmor2> popey: why you going for restraint any way?  is it to limit the amount of time you spend on FB?
<popey> davmor2: not replying to hate mail
<davmor2> :)
<davmor2> popey: But no-one can hate you your too nice, and look like elvis everyone love elvis (apparently)
<gordonjcp> I'm going to Lidl to get some stroopwafel to celebrate five nines on one of our big scary systems ;-)
<gordonjcp> davmor2: there is a guy who works at one of the concierge stations for one of the blocks of flats near here who looks exactly like popey but with more grey hair and an evil goatee
<popey> davmor2: check the sounder list. I'm pretty hated there
<gordonjcp> he's like popey's evil twin
<popey> i have grey hair now gordonjcp :(
<gordonjcp> well
<popey> quite a lot
<gordonjcp> slightly eviller twin
<davmor2> popey: No I'm not getting blagged into joining the sounders list I get enough mail as it is :D
<popey> davmor2: its shutdown, so you wouldn't be able to
<shauno> I tried to google the pope to see if he had a goatee to support a bad joke.
<gordonjcp> we've had four minutes total outage on a big radio system spread across five sites
<shauno> but chrome autofilled it to 'popey'.  what on earth have you done to google?!
<davmor2> popey: Meh it was only full of whiners anyway right?
<gordonjcp> what's the sounders list?
<popey> davmor2: thats the spirit!
<davmor2> popey: Anything I can do to help you practise restraint I'm right there for you :D
<popey> :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: creep :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I just announced that if I can annoy popey I will,  it's a czajkowski surrogate till she's up and running proper and look at how much restraint she has now :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah ok, thought you'd gone soft.
<davmor2> MooDoo: see minutes have passed and czajkowski hasn't tried killing either of us :D
<dogmatic69> hi all
<davmor2> morning dogmatic69
<MooDoo> davmor2: we're leaving her alone as she's not well
<dogmatic69> anyone know how i can change this... apt-get update is using '[Connecting to us-east-1.ec2.archive.ubuntu.com (10.250.142.223)]'
<davmor2> MooDoo: I know
<dogmatic69> its on aws but ive moved the server to the eu
<dogmatic69> was in the us
<dogmatic69> davmor2: o/
<oimon> my office had a Â£2-3million facelift...somebody crashes a car into it after 1 week...life in the east end!
<popey> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/news/a315550/virgin-media-to-trial-15gb-broadband.html
<popey> wow
<dwatkins> oimon: goodness me, hope people are ok and it's insured
<MooDoo> hmmm aren't they having issues with their 30 service at the moment?
<dwatkins> popey: I'd be amazed if it performs any better than 10 MBit.
<dogmatic69> popey: how am i supposed to work with 150Mbps uploads?
<popey> hah
<popey> I'm tempted to get 30Mb
<oimon> dwatkins: superficial damage to building (it's made of solid concrete with glass panels), lots of broken pieces of car though.
<popey> hehe
<shauno> dogmatic69: I think you change it the same way you always would? just change the url to eu.ec3.archive.ubuntu.com and apt-get update
<dwatkins> oimon: sounds like a good excuse to get a fussball table
<oimon> scoundrel50a: has the backlight issue been reported as a bug
<dogmatic69> shauno: i dont know how to 'normally' do it :)
<scoundrel50a> oimon: yes
<oimon> scoundrel50a: great
<shauno> dogmatic69: oh .. should be /etc/apt/sources.list, unless there's anything that also matches in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
<popey> scoundrel50a: bug number?
<oimon> i owe it to fellow owners of the machines i use to report hardware issues
<oimon> especially regressions
<scoundrel50a> no idea, I just managed to get the bug reported, and didnt think to look for the bug number
<oimon> scoundrel50a: you would have received an email
<scoundrel50a> not had to report a bug before
<popey> scoundrel50a: you should have an email with the number in it
<oimon> or if you login to launchpad you can see the bugs you are active on
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~scoundrel50a
<popey> i see no bugs
<scoundrel50a> um, will have to look, lost all stored e-mails on computer, one sec, need to go on the web
<popey> assuming thats you :)
<scoundrel50a> that is, but its not that one, I'll see if I can find it
<dogmatic69> shauno: thanks :)
<dogmatic69> that worked
<Psychobudgie> Virgin will launch 150gb broadband and introduce a 30gb cap on the same day
<Psychobudgie> that is my prediction
<popey> bug 759194
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 759194 could not be found
<Psychobudgie> 1 month later you will have the first watchdog special on Virgin customers being hit with Â£5000 bills for 1 month's "surfing"
<DJones> I saw the email about 6.06 server release reaching EOL last night after 5 years and realised how long it is since I started using ubuntu, 6.06 was brand new at the time, where has the last 5 years gone?
<oimon> scoundrel50a: somebody mamanged to turn on the backlight in bug 765438 as a workaround
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 765438 in linux (Ubuntu) "On startup, the backlight is off on laptop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/765438
<MartijnVdS> DJones: I WANT MY 5 YEARS BACK!
<MartijnVdS> :P
<dogmatic69> now on apt-get update im getting 'A error occurred during the signature verification. The repository is not updated and the previous index files will be used. '
<DJones> MartijnVdS: They're non-refundable
<Psychobudgie> if you find the last 5 years could you ask it if it's seen my waistline or my hair and ask them to come back
<MartijnVdS> DJones: :|
<czajkowski> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Wy7gRGgeA CODE MONKEY
<scoundrel50a> oimon: didnt see that one, we did a load of other things though, but nothing worked.
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: You can only have your five years back if you can provide us with a receipt for the purchase of said five years, other wise you us for five years
<scoundrel50a> oimon: it wasnt just me either, quite a few people were getting the same problems.
<gord> gord is not happy with this weeks graze box, not nearly enough chocolate
<shauno> dogmatic69: that's a bit odd.  they should both be using the same key.  (also, minor bug: *an* error ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: complain! complain!
<scoundrel50a> bug 759104
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 759104 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to Natty wont load" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759104
<gord> wonder if i can convince cadbury's to start a similar service
<dogmatic69> shauno: there is a bug on launchpad, from like 2005ish
<dogmatic69> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/24234
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 24234 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt-get update failing with bad signature. (dup-of: 24061)" [High,Confirmed]
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 24061 in apt (Ubuntu) "GPG error with apt-get/aptitude/update-manager behind proxy (BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5)" [Low,Triaged]
<scoundrel50a> there should have been two files I uploaded, both Xorg files, can only see one though.
<popey> scoundrel50a: that doesnt look like a bug about backlights
<scoundrel50a> well it was, because that was the problem we had.
<oimon> this irc room is like twitter...you would think the whole world gets graze boxes, but it's just 2 or 3 vocal members on ubuntu-uk :P
<popey> scoundrel50a: no, that bug is about a blank screen on upgrade, not a broken backlight
<oimon> remember when everyone thought lib dems were gonna win the election? turned out to be based on some RTs in twitter ...
<popey> scoundrel50a: there seems to be at least two separate issues.
<popey> 1) broken backlight
<popey> 2) blank screen on upgrade
 * bigcalm ponders taking graze off of his highlight list
<popey> hah
<popey> graze
<popey> :D
<scoundrel50a> popey: backlight wasnt broken, it just didnt work, its working now, using 10.10, as I am using that machine
<bigcalm> Abuse! Abuse!
<scoundrel50a> I just put down what I was told,
<oimon> bigcalm: how do you do highlight lists? i'm in pidgin
<bigcalm> oimon: no idea, I use x-chat
<scoundrel50a> what does the Xorg files show
<bigcalm> Well, y-chat on windows
<oimon> it's a client rather than irc thing?
<bigcalm> Yes
<oimon> scoundrel50a: if you plugged an external monitor in, does it work?
<DJones> oimon: Looks like theres a plugin pack for pidgin http://pkgs.org/ubuntu-10.10/ubuntu-universe-i386/pidgin-plugin-pack_2.6.3-1_i386.deb.html which includes a hilight command
<scoundrel50a> donât know, because I couldnt use it I had to delete and reinstall 10.10
<DJones> oimon: Not something I've looked for in the official repo's though
<oimon> DJones: thanks, i will check it out
<oimon> it's in the repo's too
<popey> scoundrel50a: you could dual boot 10.10 and 11.04 and switch between them, if you want to test 11.04 and help get it fixed
<oimon> or use a livecd
<popey> thats less useful tbh
<popey> because you can't install kernels
<oimon> just testing my highlights..someone say graze please, without mentioning my name :P
<popey> quick, nobody say graze!
<popey> damnit1
<oimon> yay
<oimon> rememebers to remove that word from his list now
 * oimon prefers chocolate to nuts
<DJones> Chocolate Raisons FTW
<scoundrel50a> ok, if I knew what UI was doing, and didnt need help when something went wrong I would willingly, but I spent 4 hours yesterday, and goodness knows how long the first time I installed and uninstalled I just cant keep coming onto here and asking all the time. I have spent more time on here the past week or so than doing anything else.
<gordonjcp> DJones: mmmm
<oimon> discovering lots more IRC plugins in the pidgin-plugin-pack
<gordonjcp> I must admit, I adore dried grapes, I just absolutely live for them
<gordonjcp> they're my raisin d'etre
<oimon> bahdum ching
<oimon> chocolate covered grapes are nice - when using a chocolate fountain
<scoundrel50a> I spent 2 hours trying to work out myself why my touchpad wouldnt work, searched everywhere, and went over loads of different thigns from different forums, and nothing worked, it wouldnt even work in Windows. It was only when I went and tested pressing Fn and some of the F buttons at the top I discovered it had been turned off, and pnd pressing Fn and F6 I think it is, turned it back on again. By that time, I was prepared to throw the thin
<scoundrel50a> g oput
<oimon> scoundrel50a: is there a loco near you? if you're keen to learn then generally ubuntu usrs are happy to help, and it's so much easier and quicker IRL
<scoundrel50a> I still havent managed to work out why I cant get rid of those updates, from this morning, which is interfering in my updates process, so i am hoping that sometime, in some future updates that will fix itself or I';m screwed again
<oimon> scoundrel50a: i meant a LUG (linux user group)..although some of them tend to spend their time drinking beer it seems ;)
<scoundrel50a> That is what happened the one I went too, most of the time it was just drinking
<popey> scoundrel50a: why are you even trying to install linux-generic linux-headers-generic linux-image-generic?
<scoundrel50a> I have thought about going to the Natty London party round the corner from me to see if somebody can get it to work there
<popey> scoundrel50a: hang on. stop a moment
<popey> scoundrel50a: please do this:-
<popey> sudo dpkg --configure -a
<scoundrel50a> popey, it appeared in an update I got this morning,
<popey> NOTE: double minus sign in front of configure
<popey> i looked at your pastebin and you typed it incorrectly
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/596455/
<scoundrel50a> I am not trying to do it deliberately
<popey> can you please sudo dpkg --configure -a
<popey> and pastebin the output
<shauno> so I looked up the sounder archives to see if it was as bad as claimed.  the first thead I pulled out quickly degenerated from why unity is the antichrist, to people's various viewpoints on the israelli government.  wowzers.  and I thought I was bad.
<scoundrel50a> popey: nothing happened
<scoundrel50a> popey:http://paste.ubuntu.com/596499/
<oimon> shauno: i looked it up and there was a discussion about anti-semitism and the linux mint project
<shauno> yeah, I believe this is the same thread (or hope there's not more than one, rather)
<shauno> it was just the first big thread I spotted in the archives.  but if I'm to tar it with the first brush I find, seems it's going to be no real loss
<oimon> it's closing anyway
<popey> ok good scoundrel50a
<popey> scoundrel50a: next, "sudo apt-get update"
<oimon> i just received a pointless email from tfl telling me to keep my password safe
<popey> scoundrel50a: please do that
<scoundrel50a> ok
<scoundrel50a> done that
<popey> pastebin?
<scoundrel50a> do you want a pastebin of it?
<scoundrel50a> sorry didnt see
<scoundrel50a> http://paste.ubuntu.com/596505/
<popey> good. now this:-
<popey> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<popey> and pls pastebin
<scoundrel50a> ok, that changed something, more stuff updating
<scoundrel50a> http://paste.ubuntu.com/596508/
<scoundrel50a> didnt rem,ove it from the Update Manager though
<popey> close update manager
<popey> now do this:-
<scoundrel50a> ok
<popey> dpkg -l "linux-image*"
<popey> and pastebin
<scoundrel50a> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/596510/
<popey> can you do it again with a wider terminal please
<popey> it's truncated width wise
<popey> actually do this instead
<popey> dpkg -l "linux-*"
<scoundrel50a> popey:http://paste.ubuntu.com/596516/ hope that woprks better
<bigcalm> directhex: finished Portal 2 yet?
<directhex> not yewt
<bigcalm> Tis much fun
<bigcalm> Not let down by the ending
<scoundrel50a> need a pee, brb
<bigcalm> Will be good to play the co-op
<bigcalm> scoundrel50a: is that something you usually anouce?
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> scoundrel50a: I don't see what the issue is. packages being held back isn't a massive problem
<popey> its generally not broken at all
<scoundrel50a> I didnt know that. They appeared in the Update Manager, and give an error when you try to update via that.
<scoundrel50a> which is what I posted earlier
<oimon> i wonder if aptitude might be more verbose
<oimon> e.g. sudo apt-get install aptitude;  sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude safe-upgrade
<popey> I'd recommend not giving people combined commands like that
<popey> thats what led to the confusion earlier
<popey> well, that and a typo
<scoundrel50a> oimon: I added the commands one at a time into the terminal, and still after safe-upgrade, it says 3 not upgraded
<scoundrel50a> I will wait to see if it does anything when I next get some updates in.
<scoundrel50a> thank you
<davmor2> scoundrel50a: if they're not installing it's for a reason the normal one is that there is a package missing.  If that's the case it won't install till the package is available for install.  It won't matter how many other packages get installed first till the missing one is there they will remain held back
<popey> basically "dont worry about it" :D
<scoundrel50a> ok, thankyou
<popey> 12:57:54 <@rphwrk> for any joggler owners: http://birdslikewires.co.uk/articles/squeezeplay-for-joggler#articletop
<brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
<brobostigon> any experience here with pac numbers and number porting?
<oimon> brobostigon: didn't think there was a whole lot to it
<brobostigon> oimon: inreference to the performance of networks doing it properly, and swiftly.
<oimon> i switched from virgin to tmob, virgin gave me the number over the phone and also sent via letter 2 days after.
<oimon> best case they will tell you or txt you, worst case a letter i guess
<brobostigon> that is pretty quick.
<oimon> brobostigon: who are you with?
<brobostigon> oimon: o2.
<oimon> i read that the OFCOM rule states they are obliged to do it within 2 business days.
<brobostigon> yes, i read that also.
<brobostigon> its good.
<hamitron> my book on minix 2 has arrived \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<hamitron> so now I just need a 286 based machine to play with
<hamitron> well, "need"
<hamitron> guess it is more "wanting"
<DJones> hamitron: Is there a www.antiquesRus.com website?
<hamitron> I checked ebay, and 286 "vintage" machines cost loads
<DJones> freecycle?
<hamitron> the half local freecycle is now under some other thing
<hamitron> but tbh, carrying a comp 15 miles is hard work
<DJones> True, specially when the old 286's weren't exactly small
<hamitron> I threw one away not long ago :/
<hamitron> tbh, I'm not sure I want an old 286 anyway
<hamitron> I'd rather get something new, but ultra low power
<hamitron> and cheap
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I suppose I could use my 200mhz sis cpu thin client for it
<hamitron> but I'd be spoilt with 64mb ram
<hamitron> maybe use a Zet processor
<hamitron> :D
<Myrtti> oh bllaaaaa I cut myself trying to open a jar or marinated artichokes... the jar had a glass shard glued on it by some gunk and I cut my thumb quite deep
<shauno> why would they glue glass onto artichokes?
<shauno> :(
<DJones> You're not having a good time lately
<Myrtti> recently I've had quite good time
<Myrtti> lately, no
 * hamitron is glad he only opened a safe bag with bacon in earlier
<DJones> I got a few cuts last night getting a hdd out of an old sky receiver, more hidden screws than at screwfix
<hamitron> :/
<oimon> my baby son was crying and holding his leg the other day. i took off his new trousers and found a deep scratc. then i found a sharp pin from a security tag that Next had kindly left in the jeans, pointing inwards.
<brobostigon> :(
<hamitron> I reckon the deaths in factorys in china has nothing to do with the working conditions... it is the dangerously poor quality equipment
<hamitron> ;)
<oimon> maybe they have unsafe window latches, you mean?
<oimon> do they commit suicide at the factory, or at home?
<hamitron> it is all DJones's Sky Boxes fault
<DJones> hamitron: Agreed
<hamitron> and DJones.... you supported a company doing this, buying such junk ;D
<hamitron> as do most of us :(
<DJones> At least I've ended up with a 300Gb hdd to stick in a computer
<hamitron> my topup tv box only had 160Gb :/
<oimon> are we still supposed to hate rupert murdoch or is he OK now?
<hamitron> hate away :)
<oimon> i can never keep up with the who's evil lists
<hamitron> just make sure you hate everyone equally
<hamitron> ;)
<czajkowski> ivanka: did you get sorted yesterday ok?
<shauno> I'm still reading thru that terribad thread on -sounder.  hating everyone equally is coming very easy atm
<DJones> shauno: Thats a week of your life you'll never get back
<shauno> it's okay!  I'm on the clock :)
<oimon> shauno: so are we allowed to use linux mint or not :P
<shauno> oimon: I'm not sure, but I just learnt a new work.  ignosticism!
<shauno> er, *word
<popey> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/server-storage/asr/documentation/fault-coverage-ilom-337688.pdf
<popey> bah, oops
<oimon> i guess if you don't have a strong opinion about israel, it doesn't matter :)
<hamitron> what has happened with israel?
<hamitron> or linux mint
<shauno> hamitron: you're better off not knowing really.  this list really isn't sane. I'm just paying far too attention to car crashes, I think
<oimon> yeah, more like chucking bricks in greenhouses
<oimon> hate is contagious
<hamitron> I hate and complain about everything anyway
<oimon> even haters of hate, hate haters
<MooDoo> i hate this channel :D
<davmor2> oimon: let me get this straight you hate haters of hate?
<hamitron> MooDoo: me too sometimes :)
<shauno> come on guys - I can't do this in two windows at once!
<oimon> shauno: where else? offtopic?
<DJones> Perhaps there should be a #ubuntu-sounder so people can hate each otehr in real time
 * DJones withdraws that suggestion as a really bad idea
<oimon> i've heard of that irc channel..trying to remmeber the name
<MooDoo> DJones: there you do, sorted :)
<shauno> from what I gather, there should be an #ubuntu-sounder, containing a bot who g:lines anyone who thinks entering is a good idea :/
<hamitron> there is little point in hating hate and other things for the sake of it.... I like the productive kind
<hamitron> haha shauno
<MooDoo> #ubuntu-sounder created as requested ;)
<shauno> NooDoo!
<MooDoo> :D
<MooDoo> and i'm ops mwaahahahahahahahah :D
<oimon> change of topic - what/who do you love?
<oimon> food love: worcester sauce twiglets, ribena, crisps, after eight mints :D
<shauno> oh man.   I found these brownies at tesco.  some short, eurocentric name with dots on it.  this is my new love.
<oimon> my wife is making me a custom-made easter egg this year
<oimon> made of dark chocolate and peppermint oil
<shauno> I really can't remember the name.  it was the kinda thing ikea would name brownies.  but they were goooood
<hamitron> poo slabs?
<hamitron> slab-o-poo
<oimon> poovik
<oimon> turdslab sounds rather nordic
<hamitron> haha
<MooDoo> wow ubuntu-sounder registered over 5 years ago :)
<shauno> Ã¼l, or Ã¶l, or something
<popey> o_O
<shauno> I remember the diacritic but not the word :(  I'm destined to spend an evening walking around tesco making strange noises at the staff, trying to find them again
<popey> MooDoo: yeah, it was one of the first lists
<oimon> gu?
<oimon> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=267319756
<shauno> yes!
<oimon> what's nice is the gu pots of chocolate mousse that you heat up, and you get to keep the glass ramekins they come in
<oimon> look like those brownies require eating with cream
<shauno> they require eating with the door closed so no-one else discovers them
<shauno> whoever thought they should be individually wrapped was a hopeless optimist.
<popey> heh
<shauno> and this thread is truely epic.  I've got as far as them discussing whether carl sagan "had a clue"
<oimon> i brought home-made cupcakes to work today. it turns out that if you put sprinkles on the top, they get eaten faster
<shauno> try putting bacon on top ;)
<popey> bacon sprinkles
<popey> mmmmmmm
<popey> </harvester>
<popey> </not_real_bacon>
<oimon> subway...turkey ham lol
<shauno> I've put bacon in choc-chip cookies.  it caramelizes.  I think it could work on cupcakes too
 * oimon vomits
 * hamitron spanks shauno
<hamitron> :/
<Myrtti> I think it's a shame Mignon eggs aren't sold too widely
<Myrtti> they're the food of kings
<hamitron> Myrtti: do you eat anything "normal"? ;)
<Myrtti> http://www.suomikauppa.fi/product_info.php?language=en&products_id=2775 omnomnom
<Myrtti> hamitron: is pasta with marinated artichokes normal?
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> ;/
<Myrtti> oh
<Myrtti> I had a hamburger yesterday
<hamitron> but pasta isn't
<oimon> me too, first one in over a year
<hamitron> hamburger is normal :)
<Myrtti> mmmm mignon egg
<hamitron> tbh, the egg does sound nice
<hamitron> but a row of chocolate sounds easier to eat
<Myrtti> mignon egg isn't chocolate per se
<hamitron> you throw the shell away....
<hamitron> don't ya?
<Myrtti> well, it is a real egg shell, so yeah
<hamitron> how do they seal the hole drilled in the shell?
<Myrtti> "The hole in the shell is ... plugged with a mixture ... consisting of sugar and a small amount of ... rice protein"
<oimon> i.e. polyfilla
<hamitron> :))
<Myrtti> I always thought it was meringue of sorts but I guess it's not
<dogmatic69> anyone know of any decent employment agencies? work is looking for a new php dev... desperate times
<seeker> Put your CV on monster
 * DJones wonders what they do with raw egg...Army rationed powdered scambled egg?
<dogmatic69> i dont want a job, need another dev
<seeker> I did about 2 years ago, stating that I didn't want to do web dev
<dogmatic69> plus i dont use CV's ;)
<seeker> Ah, sorry
<seeker> Have you tried looking on monster?
<seeker> :P
<dogmatic69> lol
<oimon> don't use CVs?
<seeker> I put my CV on there overt 2 years ago, and said that I don't want web dev
<dogmatic69> cv's are pretty much pointless
<Myrtti> linkedin.com?
<seeker> Im still getting weekly emails telling me about web dev jobs that need filling
<oimon> dogmatic69: pointless unless you wanna hear what qualifications and experience someone has before intreviewing them
<dogmatic69> oimon: ye, and want to read all the crap and lies people put in them
<dogmatic69> or what some employment agent hacked it with stuff you know nothing of
<seeker> dogmatic69: How do you find people to interview?
<dogmatic69> seeker: user groups etc
<shauno> he asks in here :)
<dogmatic69> shauno: will do when we need a sys admin :D
<seeker> I think you are probably limiting your search space a little
<oimon> heh
<dogmatic69> seeker: agents for the most part will bring .net developers when you ask for php developers
<seeker> Throw those ones in the bin then
<oimon> i think we've been through all this before. there are good guys and bad guys..actually i'm told there are good guys but i haven't found them before :)
<seeker> Just because an agent gives you a CV doesn't mean you have to employ them
<brobostigon> i think i will be going with three, their signal is better than o2, and also having unlimited data, and gives me more texts, and inclusive voice, which i didnt get with o2.
<stetho> I live in South London. Three's signal is patchy at best.
<stetho> It might be different where you are.
<brobostigon> i did tests, and in most places here in banbury, the signal is singnificantly better.
<stetho> And in the current financial climate people aren't looking for jobs. We've got 26 open jobs in the UK, 4 in my team alone.
<brobostigon> stetho: can i ask where, and what company.
<brobostigon> stetho: i am looking for a job,
<stetho> West London. Company called Shazam
<brobostigon> yes, i have heard of.
<popey> stetho: if they're linuxy jobs, please consider posting them to the linuxjobs mailing list
<Myrtti> I've heard of a few shazams
<popey> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/linuxjobs
<Myrtti> I guess this is "SHAZAM is a powerful software package for econometric and statistical analysis."
<Myrtti> or is it the other
<directhex> stetho, the music tagginc company?
<stetho> Myrtti: It is, but that's not us. http://www.shazam.com
<directhex> so "yes" then
<Myrtti> oh well, doesn't matter which it is, I don't bother applying anyway - I bet the telecommuting options are low to nonexistant anyway
<directhex> i telecommute
<directhex> except on wednesdays
<stetho> Yeah, as a technology company with offices in 6 countries the last thing we want is people telecommuting.
<seeker> stetho: There are companies with offices in far more countries than that which prefer you not to telecommute if possible
<stetho> Not us. I work with people I've still never met. :-)
<directhex> we have the cambridge office and montreal office. i'm in cambs today
<seeker> Where do you live?
<Myrtti> wednesdays are cake days?
<Myrtti> or steak days?
<directhex> Myrtti, wednesdays are "local support" days
<directhex> otherwise i work from home
<Myrtti> right
<stetho> I used to work for a company that had "Frosty Fridays" (ice creams) and "Thirsty Thursdays" (Beer) - Wednesday was always a disappointment. "Timbits Wednesdays" just didn't have the same ring to it.
<seeker> directhex: Whereabouts do you live?
<popey> I worked somewhere where we had "five pint friday"
<popey> not every friday :D
<brobostigon> :)
<directhex> seeker, banbury, so about 2 hours west of cambs
<stetho> That sounds more like a challenge than a perk.
<DJones> Yuch, that five pints was horrible fake milk
<Azelphur> I'm kinda being evil to the amazon reseller that's messing me about with microsd cards now
<Azelphur> http://ietherpad.com/mhRUYreMyz opinions? :P
<Azelphur> yay for free grammafix :p
<Myrtti> the first paragraph makes a limited amount of sense
<Myrtti> word escalate is repeated a bit too much
<Azelphur> yea, I use escalate way too much xD
<MartijnVdS> http://jenlars.mu.nu/dilbert_escalate.gif
<Azelphur> Myrtti: better? :D
<Myrtti> yeah, a bit
<Azelphur> Myrtti: on amazon the email is attached to an item, so when I say this item they know what I mean
<shauno> I believe the word you're looking shibboleet ;)
<Myrtti> Azelphur: it's the "I, I've, I've" that I find confusing
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: xD
<Azelphur> *shrug* not sure how I could fix that :D
 * Azelphur failed english \o/
<Azelphur> indeed :P
<Myrtti> I feel somewhat out of my league tho
<Azelphur> whys that :o
<Myrtti> feels strange to be correcting the language of a native speaker
<Azelphur> hahaha
<Azelphur> Myrtti: you'd be surprised how often non-natives correct my English, it's terrible and always has been :)
<DJones> A non-native speaker probably has a better grasp of the proper language/grammer rather than the slang/shortcuts that a native user would use
<Azelphur> indeed
<Myrtti> irregular verbs etc...
<Myrtti> although I have to confess that the only time I've cheated in a test was for Finnish exam
<MartijnVdS> I think we're worse at both :P
<Azelphur> alright then gonna send that :p
<MartijnVdS> Most UK English slang I know I've learned from here :)
<Azelphur> grumpy emails away \o/
<MartijnVdS> oh and Lugradio back in the day
<Myrtti> we had a test where we had to conjugate words according to their tense - so "conjugate the word house to singular inessive"
<Myrtti> absolutely pointless and I have no regrets in cheating in that exam, it was one of the most useless of my 12 years of school
<Myrtti> if not the useless
<Azelphur> that's sent \o/
<Azelphur> I'm usually quite friendly when it comes to issues with online trading but when you ignore my calls and emails repeatedly I get mad :p
<shauno> same, really.  I'll work with them until it's resolved, but when they stop doing the same, revert to excrement from a great height.
<Azelphur> indeed
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> I'm still waiting for a 9V transformer from china :/
<popey> haha
<popey> you make pains to use the least power and recycle and then get a <1KG item shipped from china?
<shauno> china gets annoying .. you have even less options when it stops going the way you expect
<popey> :)
<davmor2> hamitron: why do that, just grab a hold of bumblebee or optimus they're much bigger transformers
<hamitron> popey: cost
<hamitron> popey: and most things sold here have already been shipped anyway
<hamitron> I got some bulbs for my scalextric cars too
<hamitron> pack of 100 from china was Â£6
<hamitron> pack of 2 in the UK was Â£10
<popey> ouch
<oimon> mmm scalextric
<shauno> you have 50 cars?
<hamitron> official scalextric ones were Â£15 for 2
<oimon> regretting giving my nigel mansell canon willians honda away a couple of years back
<hamitron> no, I only have maybe 30
<hamitron> but I now have spares when needed
<davmor2> who needs light for slot cars
<popey> for driving in the dark silly rabbit!
<hamitron> only needed 3 bulbs :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: do you have a hobby you spend lots of time and money on?
<hamitron> yeh damn it
<davmor2> bigcalm: Nope
<hamitron> endurance races.... you gotta have lights
<bigcalm> davmor2: then I can see why you don't understand
<hamitron> I got a dimmer switch for my race room on timer ;)
<oimon> man i'd love to have a go on some scalextric right now
<oimon> shame all my mates got grown up hobbies
<davmor2> bigcalm: I have lots of expensive hobbies that I spend no money on :D
 * oimon still makes airfix
<hamitron> and my laptop monitors car fuel for pit stops
<bigcalm> I had TCR as a kid. I liked making jumps (can't do that with slot cars)
<hamitron> TCR?
<bigcalm> Total Control Racing
<hamitron> ah
<hamitron> I want some more RC cars :/
<hamitron> but things can get out of hand, when you spend too much on toys
<DJones> hamitron: This is getting out hand with r/c toys
<DJones> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bH94Mcajr4
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I want one !!!!!!!!!
<hamitron> my truck is smaller :(
<oimon> he doesn't show his face cos he's embarrassed
<hamitron> tbh, I've really taken to steam atm
<popey> puff puff puff puff
<popey> CHOO CHOO!
<hamitron> I love the smell :D
<popey> yeah, me too
<popey> there's some canal boats outside work, i love the smell as I walk home
<hamitron> maybe a 1:12 scale steam train to go around the garden
<hamitron> I've not convinced my parents yet
<hamitron> :/
<popey> anyone know of a text editor on windows (sorry) that can do code folding for bash files? :)
<dogmatic69> popey: notepad ++ is awesome
<dogmatic69> not sure on your requirements though
<hamitron> I can't find bash in notepad++
<hamitron> :/
<gord> is it easy to run bash stuff on windows?
<hamitron> never tried tbh
<hamitron> I use notepad++ to edit config files and scripts, then send them to linux comps
<shauno> I want to say emacs, but I can't bring myself to do it, even in jest :(
<hamitron> :))
 * oimon is setting up a FOG server in the hope of replacing acronis crud
 * hamitron puts his new book on the shelf, hoping he will get some work done
<Neoti> Hi All,
<Neoti> just installed ubuntu 10.10 on a Toshiba satalite Pro M50 and when i log in i just get the background image and no menus etc.... but if i boot in to safe mode i get the menu and stuff.... can anyone help me... i have ran updates on the system but its not solved it .... any help ?
 * brobostigon shakes fist at KMS.
<brobostigon> gpu hang/lockup :(
<Neoti> fixed my problem i think ... added radeon.modeset=0 in etc/default/grub to grub_cmd_linux_default...
<dogmatic69> awesome, my super generic backup script worked on a new machine with out mods
<brobostigon> so once anetwork gets mypac code, acording to ofcoms rules now, the transfer has to happen within24 hours, am i interpreting it correctly?
<oimon> brobostigon: that was my experience
<brobostigon> oimon: excellant, :)
<oimon> you should get a text from the new network telling you that the switch has occurred
<oimon> who are you switching to?
<brobostigon> yes, they told me.
<brobostigon> i deiced on three, due to their nice unimited internet, without fair usepolicy, andnice amount of texts and voice, for payg Â£15.
<brobostigon> and my signal is better with them.
<brobostigon> o2 has massive blackspots where idont want them.
<brobostigon> i did my research the lastmonth or so,
<brobostigon> and signal tests.
<oimon> my 3g internet doesn't go fast enough to casuse FUP issues
<brobostigon> when i have had to tether, when out adsl has been out, it has become rather bigger,
<oimon> wondering whethre installing opera will help my 3g browsing speed
<brobostigon> oimon: it will help abit, as all the traffic is compressed via opera's servers.
<oimon> brobostigon: i was thinking that, just wondered if it worked in reality
<oimon> must be some mobile opera users in here
<brobostigon> oimon: not a clue. sorry.
<davmor2> popey: you'll know this what the command to constantly view the end of a log I thought it was tail, is it watch or something like that?
<oimon> tail -f
<davmor2> oimon: thanks
<mondoman712> hello?
<mondoman712> hello?
<gord> or is it me your looking for?
<mondoman712> maybe
<mondoman712> im having ubuntu trouble
<mondoman712> i downloaded a program
<mondoman712> (platinum arts sandbox game maker)
<mondoman712> (on ubuntu 11.04 beta)
<mondoman712> and i cant remove it
<mondoman712> or install any other programs
<directhex> pastebin the error.
<mondoman712> there wasnt an error
<mondoman712> it just doesnt
<mondoman712> no error message
<bigcalm> mondoman712: can you add / remove packages via the CLI?
<mondoman712> nope
<bigcalm> And there is no textual output at all after calling apt-get ?
<mondoman712> it tells me to run a command which seems to try and uninstall this program
<directhex> run "sudo apt-get -f install" in the terminal. pastebin the output.
<mondoman712> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable)
<mondoman712> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?
<directhex> you have synaptic still running, or another package manager, in another window
<mondoman712> the sofware center
<mondoman712> ill force quit it
<popey> o_O
<mondoman712> same output
<mondoman712> :(
<directhex> force quit? well, yeah, then you will still have a lock file
<bigcalm> One might say "reboot the machine". But that's only if you've given up trying to fix things :)
<directhex> sudo rm /var/lib/dpkg/lock
<mondoman712> E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'sudo dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem.
<directhex> so run sudo dpkg --configure -a
<mondoman712> E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'sudo dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem.
<mondoman712> sam@SAM:~$ sudo dpkg --configure -a
<mondoman712> Setting up sandboxgamemaker (2.6.1+dfsg-3) ...
<mondoman712> debconf: DbDriver "config": /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process: Resource temporarily unavailable
<mondoman712> dpkg: error processing sandboxgamemaker (--configure):
<mondoman712>  subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1
<mondoman712> Errors were encountered while processing:
<mondoman712>  sandboxgamemaker
<bigcalm> mondoman712: please use a pastebin
<mondoman712> idk how
<bigcalm> (if more than 2 lines of output)
<bigcalm> !paste
<lubotu3> Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<directhex> yikes
<mondoman712> umm
<directhex> sudo fuser -v /var/cache/debconf/config.dat
<mondoman712> ok
<popey> i just tested installing that package on natty here and it installs fine
<mondoman712> have you tried removing it?
<directhex> popey, someone killed dpkg mid-flow. just a case of picking up the pieces now
<popey> yup
<popey> removed fine
<popey> right
<mondoman712> k
<mondoman712> http://pastebin.com/dA623b5J
<directhex> kill 2421
<mondoman712> (output from sudo fuser -v /var/cache/debconf/config.dat)
<directhex> sudo kill 2421, even
<mondoman712> no outpu
<mondoman712> t
<directhex> mondoman712, sudo dpkg --configure -a ?
<mondoman712> http://pastebin.com/SgbuQEZ2
<directhex> mondoman712, um, you pressed ctrl-c
<mondoman712> yeah
<mondoman712> i tried to copy it
<mondoman712> i'll run it again
<directhex> ctrl-c is cancel.
<mondoman712> its copy everywhere else
<directhex> it's ctrl-c in GUI apps. it's been cancel in UNIX terminals since the 70s
<mondoman712> umm ok
<mondoman712> im running it again
<bigcalm> In a terminal just highlight the text and it'll be coppied into the buffer
<bigcalm> Middle click to paste
<bigcalm> Time to drive
<mondoman712> its saying its going to take just under an hour
<mondoman712> ...
<bigcalm> That's down to a) your connection b) their connection
<mondoman712> probibly mine
<mondoman712> cuz it sucks
<mondoman712> http://pastebin.com/PVBZe72h
<MartijnVdS> That's the THIRD time this cycle that Ubuntu resets my default browser to Firefox
<MartijnVdS> without my consent
<mondoman712> :(
<mondoman712> firefox sucks
<MartijnVdS> mondoman712: It's a good browser, but I prefer chromium
<MartijnVdS> mondoman712: I think it's faster.
<mondoman712> naaaa
<mondoman712> opera
<MartijnVdS> </browser-wars>
<mondoman712> its faster than chrome
<mondoman712> and has more features
<MartijnVdS> mondoman712: I prefer my browser to work on most websites :P
<mondoman712> opera does
<MartijnVdS> not last time I tried
<mondoman712> and if it doesnt you can tell the website you have firefox
<mondoman712> and it works
<mondoman712> :P
<MartijnVdS> Pizza!
<mondoman712> YAY!
<shauno> woot.  home!
<MartijnVdS> shauno: \o/
<mondoman712> hello?
<MartijnVdS> howdy
<mondoman712> i need directhex
<MartijnVdS> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<mondoman712> he was helping me earilier
<MartijnVdS> Sure, but maybe someone else also knows :)
<mondoman712> http://pastebin.com/7smte0Bw
<ali1234> ok, i'm done with the rejoin spam now
<ali1234> AlanBell: i found another twitter plugin for pidgin and empathy that is much better than the one in the repos
<ali1234> it handles timeline as a multiuser chat, so it will probably suck in empathy
<ali1234> since empathy's multiuser support is worthless
<ali1234> but it makes it more like IRC so that's good
<ali1234> i don't get highlighted on every message
<ali1234> link: http://code.google.com/p/prpltwtr/
<HazRPG> think I'm going to finally ditch the ol' server for ubuntu-server now!
<brobostigon> good evening HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: good evening :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> hmm... is there a way I can backup some of my stuff to my VM?
<dutchie> can you be more specific than "VM"?
<HazRPG> dutchie: sure :)
<dutchie> if you mean "VPS", then yes
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG:
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: \o/ dumping windows
<dutchie> if you mean "machine i made in virtualbox", then the answer is "there is no point whatsoever"
<HazRPG> Current Server: Windows 2003, Inside it is a VBox VM of ubuntu 10.10 currently only doing radvd. The server itself (windows), currently hosts httpd, mumble, mysql, etc
<HazRPG> it has lots of other stuff, but nothing is important other than the mysql and httpd stuff
<HazRPG> Been slowly trying to test new things out in the VM so that I can switch it over easily
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I'd get new hardware and install it the other way around
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Ubuntu with Windows in a kvm inside :)
<HazRPG> question is... should I store the current website stuff straight to dropbox, or transfer it over to the VM... copy the VM to my actual workstation... test it to make sure everything is fine (get hash, etc)... then load up the VM inside of my workstation and proceed with the install on the server and move things as-and-when needed
<ali1234> wat
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: whatever works best for you
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: dropbox might be annoying if it's huge
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: or not-for-American-eyes :)
<HazRPG> all its hosting is this mainly: www.hazrpg.co.uk and mc.hazrpg.co.uk
<MartijnVdS> move to vps :)
<MartijnVdS> also, make backups before moving stuff
<HazRPG> they're not proper websites though lol, they're just testbed stuff really
<MartijnVdS> and make sure  you can always take a "step back"
<HazRPG> heh, even have my old assignment on here xD www.quickbedz.co.cc
<AlanBell> thanks ali1234 I will have a look at that later
<HazRPG> ah crap apparently that domain has gone :P
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hmm... can kvm be used by itself? Or does it have to be placed inside something first?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it runs on a linux kernel/system
 * HazRPG trying to work out the best way to backup mysql :/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: mysqldump
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/mysqldump.html
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also, next time, set up PostgreSQL instead of MySQL :P
 * HazRPG is slightly scare of doing this
<HazRPG> (the merge)
<HazRPG> (or switch) lol
<dwatkins> I use mysqldump to backup a wordpress database, it creates a nice easily processed text file.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: The Migration
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: indeedy
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that's why I said: try it first on some separate hardware :)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: what is PostgreSQL better at compared to MySQL, I'm curious.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Sanity :)
<HazRPG> means going into the shed and grabbing some old computers out... too lazy
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: ah ok :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: (and data integrity)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: and SQL standard compliance
<dwatkins> always sanitise...
<dwatkins> oh right, I didn't realise mysql was bad at being compliant
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: sure, but allowing 30th of February? or 00-00-0000?
<dwatkins> I see what you mean, MartijnVdS.
<MartijnVdS> also, referential integrity is.. "interesting" and has weird corner cases in MySQL
<MartijnVdS> everything works properly (and according to SQL spec) in PostgreSQL
<dwatkins> I guess I have a lot to learn about databases, I didn't know that phrase.
<dwatkins> Back later, I have to cook and learn about referential integrity... ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: :)
<Laney> can anyone recommend an arduino starter kit?
<HazRPG> ooo, just connected to my current windows server with workbench...
<HazRPG> could I do a dump this way?
<hamitron> Laney: Azelphur got one
<willy1977> evening.
<AlanBell> Laney: for you or someone else?
<Laney> AlanBell: for me and the missus to play with
<hamitron> there are things already available on the market.....
<hamitron> ;/
<Laney> what?
<hamitron> sorry
<willy1977> lol
<AlanBell> Laney: maybe go for the lillypad and make wearable stuff
<Laney> that's a good idea
<Laney> there's good stuff on instructables
<AlanBell> I think the soft circuits/wearable stuff is an interesting thing anyway because then you end up with stuff you couldn't buy
<MartijnVdS> or wash 8-)
<AlanBell> that too :)
<DJones> Hmmh, is there a way in unity on natty of having the menu bar on the left not autohide on workspaces 2,3,4 etc?
<AlanBell> a lot of arduino projects end up being devices you can get smaller, cheaper and better quality from the far east on ebay
<DJones> Found it
<hewbass> Hi all -- quick Unity related question (am running Natty Beta) : what is alt-tab meant to look like (I get a very gnome2 looking selection of running applications, which jars a bit when compared to the beauty of the rest of unity or super-w or super-s...) Just want to check to see if I have some old compiz settings that might be upsetting things
<HazRPG> totally hyped!
<HazRPG> Currently backing up EVERYTHING!
<DJones> hewbass: I get a screen with a small(ish) representation of each app that I've got running
<HazRPG> now I just need to find a way to backup my unfinished projects from SVN...
<HazRPG> (shows how much I knew back when I picked SVN 4 years ago!)
<AlanBell> hewbass: it is meant to look prettier than that
<hewbass> DJones: thanks. I guess that is the same as I get. Maybe I am getting overcritical... I just checked again and I am getting active thumbnails of the windows
<hewbass> AlanBell: maybe I am being a bit critical: perhaps it does not look as good as super-w because it displays the windows in less space...
<AlanBell> I will try and take a screenshot
 * hewbass steps out for a moment...
<DJones> hewbass: Just realised, thats not what I get, my keyboard is slightly odd in that I have to press fn+f2 to get the same effect, if I press alt + fn+f2, I get the run dialog
<DJones> Arg, wrong keys anyway
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/alttab.png
<AlanBell> hewbass: ^^
<hewbass> AlanBell: OK-- I am being too critical, and possibly have too many windows open (for alt-tab to look nice). Thanks!
<DJones> Thats similar to what I get
<popey> evening all
<AlanBell> yeah, it isn't exciting, but there are window images, window icons, drop shadows on things etc.
<AlanBell> tried super+tab?
<exobuzz> evenin popey et al
<AlanBell> and it does slide the list along and bring up the relevant window as it does it and adjust opacity
<DJones> super+tab does nothing on mine
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/supertab.png
<willy1977> Grammar question... <snip> the business model in effect/affect at the time. so Efffect or Affect?
<AlanBell> effect
<DJones> Heh, looks good, possibly a setting in compiz settings needs changing on mine, pretty much a fresh install so I've not played with much yet
<AlanBell> DJones: yeah I might have turned on shift switcher or something
<willy1977> AlanBell: thanks - I thought it was but always bugger those two up...
<HazRPG> man I love having a gigabit lan :D
<HazRPG> transfer of 4.7GB VM file... 1minute :)
<DJones> Yep that was it shift switcher
<hewbass> AlanBell: DJones: super-tab does nothing on mine either
<DJones> That is beautiful as a display effect
 * DJones sheds a tear at the beauty
<hewbass> It is more what I was expecting from alt-tab to be honest.
<DJones> hewbass: Just enabled the shift switcher in compiz config settings & it works for me
<AlanBell> I wonder if gord knows why shift switcher isn't on by default
<AlanBell> as I understand it win+tab does a kind of 3d effect thing on vista/windows 7
<hewbass> Bah- can't install compiz config due to unmet dependencies. I may have busted something earlier.
<AlanBell> I wonder if anyone here has got a friend who might have windows installed who can check that
<hewbass> AlanBell: it's possible it might be meant to be, but I have fiddled with compiz-settings in the past. May have left some old configuration that does not quite work (hence the original question)
<DJones> AlanBell: Give me a minute or two, I'll reboot & have a look
<AlanBell> well I know I turned it on, but I also did unity --reset which I thought moved every compiz setting to what the design team decided to choose was best for everyone
<willy1977> sorry missed that, what's the win7/vespa query?
<AlanBell> willy1977: what does super+tab do?
<willy1977> a 3d task switcher.
<KINGOFSWORDS> hi
<AlanBell> so like compiz shift switcher, but less awesome?
<willy1977> I can fire up a laptop and get a screenshot... if it'll help?
<DJones> AlanBell: Yes, very similar (super+tab)
<AlanBell> Aero flip 3d they call it
<willy1977> yep...
<HazRPG> windows doesn't like copying files around does it :/
<AlanBell> so by default in unity super+tab does *nothing* but it could do the same as an ex-windows user might expect, only better
<DJones> But caused putty to disappear & not reappear
<willy1977> http://res1.windows.microsoft.com/resbox/en/Windows%207/main/c/7/c7507caf-e2f4-48c9-9e68-eb124737de9d/c7507caf-e2f4-48c9-9e68-eb124737de9d.jpg
<HazRPG> apparently its going to take 144mins, 13mins, 44mins, 32mins... to finish
<AlanBell> this seems intentionally sub-optimal
<DJones> Ugh, win 7 pile of ......
<HazRPG> I don't think the mod4+tab should ever do that personally :/
<willy1977> HazRPG: aahhhhhhhhhh Microsoft time
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/April%202011/2011-04-20_21.32.01.png suddenly random pink cobblestone in minecraft? o.O
<popey> hah
<Azelphur> popey: I'm on an unmodified 1.4 client and I'm on SMP haha, how on earth does that happen xD
 * popey jumps on his private server for a bit
 * AlanBell asks about unity compiz defaults in #ayatana
<HazRPG> willy1977: T_T sadly
<HazRPG> willy1977: currently migrating my server to ubuntu-server, but I need to get everything off it in a state so that I can just shove it back into ubuntu-server :P
<hewbass> Oops. That did not quite go to plan.
<willy1977> HazRPG: makes sense... I installed ubuntu server at the weekend here thinking of setting up a few things e.g. DNS and DHCP server both over kill for a couple of machines but a good learning experience with the server version ;)
<hewbass> Bother. I am unable to set the shift-switcher in unity without killing compiz/unity...
 * hewbass has to go to bed now
<scoundrel50a> I know you probably dont want to hear this, but that problem I had this morning with the kernels not updating, I did a apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade. and its fixed it,
<willy1977> well thanks to the grammar master my blog post is finished my ramblings on the android honeycomb debate...can think about bed now ;)
<HazRPG> woo, time for a beer... some indian food... while I wait for this to backup 80GB of stuff :/
<HazRPG> willy1977: yeah, I've been having great fun with my VM of ubuntu-server inside windows recently :) - great learning experience :)
<brobostigon> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.39-rc4-oneiric/
<brobostigon> the we go, next ubuntu, kernel starting to take shape.
 * HazRPG goes to check backups
<HazRPG> if I cry out in pain in the next couple of hours, its because I've done something horribly wrong :/
 * HazRPG preps up a ubuntu-server disc
<brobostigon> ok, HazRPG  i will try and remember.
<HazRPG> typical... thought I had an ubuntu-server disc pre-made :/
<HazRPG> brobostigon: 10.10 should be okay right?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i dont know, as a server, but as a desktop, it is considered stable.
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: night dude, sleep well
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good night, sleep well.
<HazRPG> Well I've done everything I could possibly do... only one thing left right? (this thing hasn't been turned off in 2 years!)
<Azelphur> ali1234: you know a lot about ARM right? have you seen the Smartbook? it looks pretty interesting.
<Azelphur> I'm not sure how it'd perform though :p
<ali1234> Azelphur: it's pointless
<ali1234> who ise going to take their computer apart and turn it into a phone? and why?
<Azelphur> yea, I'm not too amazed by the phone part myself
<Azelphur> but the price for a tablet PC is interesting
<ali1234> the specs aren't that good
<Azelphur> had a feeling they wouldn't be
<Azelphur> I wonder if there's any decent spec'd arm tablets though?
<ali1234> yeah
<Azelphur> 15 hours battery sounds pretty sweet if the specs was good
<ali1234> it's called an ipad
 * Azelphur slaps ali1234 around a bit with a large trout
<Azelphur> tablet pc I mean, and for the love of god not apple :D
<Azelphur> ali1234: have you been inside the inspiron duo by chance?
<ali1234> no
<Azelphur> non-removable battery puts me off the idea of the inspiron duo :p
<ali1234> lol that sucks
<Azelphur> it does
<Azelphur> and only 4 hours max on default battery too
<Azelphur> everything else about the inspiron duo is great but the battery situation isn't so good
<ali1234> the thing is
<ali1234> you'll never get good battery from x86
<ali1234> and you'll never get the freedom of a PC from arm
<ali1234> choose
<Azelphur> ali1234: my Asus EEE 1001P did like 8 hours :D
<Azelphur> ali1234: I'm actually quite interested in taking an ARM, I only want it for browsing, IM, etc
<Azelphur> I pretty much just want it to run stock Ubuntu with ubuntu-restricted-extras installed
<Azelphur> I have my XPS M1730 for when I want something more beefy to do games/other stuff that isn't web browsing and other such basic things.
<Azelphur> I'm pretty sure for my tablet PC I'd be ok with an ARM providing it wasn't slow.
<ali1234> stock ubuntu is not good for those things
<ali1234> not on a tablet anyway
<ali1234> it's too heavy and guess what... unity hates touch screens
<Azelphur> ali1234: I thought 11.04 had touch screen / multi touch improvements
<Azelphur> o.O
<ali1234> it has improvements and regressions
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> like for example so much of the UI relies on mouse hover or keyboard shortcuts
<Azelphur> ali1234: my 1001p could run ubuntu reasonably fast and did everything I wanted, it was a 1.6ghz atom N450 :p
<ali1234> neither of which is available on a tablet
<Azelphur> ali1234: what would you recommend? :
<ali1234> wait for meego tablet
<Azelphur> but I want a tablet PC o.O
<ali1234> ok then get a tablet PC
<ali1234> personally i'd rather have a tablet
<Azelphur> haha, why?
<Azelphur> I like the optional keyboard
<ali1234> because tablet PCs are too heavy
<Azelphur> pfft, you havn't seen my XPS M1730
<Azelphur> ali1234: XPS M1730 base weight is 10 pounds :D
<ali1234> big ass laptops are stupid
<Azelphur> and that's before you add a second hdd haha
<Azelphur> ali1234: not really, I take it when I go away for a day or longer, dump it on a table when I arrive at my destination
<Azelphur> it's a portable PC pretty much :p
<ali1234> but it weighs 10 pounds
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-21
<Azelphur> so? ain't a problem in a backpack.
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
<Azelphur> ali1234: if I want light weight that's where my future tablet pc comes in :D
<Azelphur> and lighter than that, my phone
<HazRPG> anyone know why i'd be getting "Dead loop on virtual device he-ipv6, fix it urgently!" ?
<rick_rolling> Hi, I've got a strange problem with 11.04. The proprietary drivers wont seem to load correctly. It says the driver is activated, but not currently in use.
<HazRPG> ubuntu-server hates me :(
<HazRPG> it can't be because of a amd64 build instead of a i386 build can it...
<rick_rolling> apport is causing errors as well, and I'm assuming it has something to do with it
<HazRPG> i'm pretty darn sure its 64-bit gear
<rick_rolling> glxinfo | grep renderer
<rick_rolling> OpenGL renderer string: GeForce 8600 GTS/PCI/SSE2
<HazRPG> rick_rolling: interesting name :/ also, i'd love to help but i haven't used 11.04 much
<rick_rolling> shouldn't that be nvidia?
<rick_rolling> HazRPG: no problem
<rick_rolling> Well, I assumed 11.04 would be pretty stable by beta 2, but it seems I was wrong
<HazRPG> doesn't really look like its ready for release this month does it
<rick_rolling> invoke-rc.d: initscript apport, action "start" failed.  <--- apport seems to have something to do with it I think :(
<rick_rolling> oh, well, back to 10.10. Serves me right for trying a beta :(
<HazRPG> To LVM or not to LVM?
<HazRPG> or rather... to VLM or VLM+Encrypt or not...
<scumbag> That is the question....
<HazRPG> I'm installing ubuntu server :)
<HazRPG> migrating my old windows box to linux basically
<scumbag> How much room for expansion do you have?
<HazRPG> its got 2x80GB Hard Drives on it
<scumbag> and what are you going to use it for? Will you need to add extra HDD's to the box?
<scumbag> Raid?
<HazRPG> possibly in the future
<HazRPG> no its not raided
<HazRPG> it was on offer from DELL about 4-5 years ago
<HazRPG> came with 2x80GB hard drives... so the obvious thing was it was designed to be raided, but i never did
<HazRPG> its got space for more RAM too
<scumbag> I have a server and I don't LVM and although I had grand plans for it so far after a what feels like a life time I haven't expanded it in any direction.
<HazRPG> heh, i've had mine 4-5 years so I know the feeling :P
<HazRPG> got fed up with updates being a pain, so decided its time to switch to ubuntu server
<scumbag> My advice would be get used to using ubuntu server and see how it works. That has worked for me
<HazRPG> esp now that i'm more familiar with the terminal :)
<scumbag> Its the way to go....
<HazRPG> ah, i've been using ubuntu-server as a VM inside of the windows server O/S for about 5 months now
<HazRPG> so, its time for the migrate now :)
<HazRPG> just unsure if LVM is the way forward or not... or even if encrypting it is a must or not either
<scumbag> Its fun for sure. I have a server running here just for downloads.
<HazRPG> ah see I for last few months i've been using mine for IPv6, and since I got it for httpd
<HazRPG> along with teamspeak (more recently mumble), etc
<HazRPG> so mine gets some fair use
<HazRPG> plan to do some dhcp and firewall stuff soon too
<HazRPG> and also move from SVN to git
<scumbag> Nice, mine, well much simpler...
<HazRPG> cos I never really knew the difference between SVN/Git/Bzr/etc
<HazRPG> so I just went for one with a GUI
<HazRPG> but i'm older and wiser now and realised SVN is just soooooo crap
<scumbag> I'd like to use it as a NAS for my XBMC and OSX TimeMachine. Thats my goal, gurrently I use FreeNAS but thats not much of a challenge.
<scumbag> LOL!
<HazRPG> heh, yeah I keep meaning to setup a NAS too :P
<HazRPG> this whole time I've just had it serving music and stuff via WMP... but even that fails sometimes
<HazRPG> sod it, sticking to what i know best...
<HazRPG> MANUAL!
<scumbag> My ideal would be NAS with DL & TimeMachine. But to migrate from freenas to Ubuntu would take too long and the Backups are no.1 priority. I could do with another box to setup while I configure everything. Then swap it out.
<HazRPG> VMs help with that, thats what i've been doing
<HazRPG> scumbag: So what do you use for your server?
<HazRPG> guessing ubuntu server, but hey I could be wrong :P
<scumbag> Currently I have a freenas box but along side that there is a very small itx box running ubuntu. It doesn't get used for much just http
<scumbag> The freenas box dose the bulk... but as I said it's not much of a challenge or learning curve so I want to replace freenas with ubuntu.
<scumbag> ... and build the NAS from Ubuntu. I need AFP and TimeMachine.
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> think for a server, its a bit overkill to have partitions for /boot and / (different partitions i mean)
<HazRPG> ?*
<HazRPG> normally I would have /boot, /, /home, swap - but somehow I think for a server /boot, /, swap will be fine
<scumbag> My freenas box has 6 HDD's in three raid 1 arrays. All formatted in UDF the BSD format so it's not going to be easy for me. Another reason it hasn't happened as yet.
<HazRPG> ouch
<HazRPG> that will be a bit of a pain
<scumbag> If your box gets hacked and only having / gives the hacker plent of room to use. making partitions for home tmp var usr will help but i's a little more to manage
<scumbag> I have a very long to do list....
<HazRPG> your not the only one :P
<scumbag> LOL!
<HazRPG> wait hang on... even if i have different partitions for home tmp var usr... they'll still be able to access it the same way surely...
<HazRPG> because if they've got into / means they've managed to get root access... right?
<scumbag> But when they are full with whatever they will not bring your box down. If you have one partion for / and some one fills your tmp it will fill the entire drive.
<HazRPG> good point
<scumbag> But if you have excelent UFW skills then you'll be able to keep em out. Assuming ofcourse it's internet facing?
<HazRPG> it is, but only for http
<scumbag> Then perhaps you should create a partition just for www too? Or chroot your www setup
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> (partitioning always explodes my mind...)
<scumbag> My headache is always how much space to I give for the os?
<HazRPG> same
<HazRPG> I think i've got it done for desktop
<scumbag> The rest is not so much of a problem but update and upgrades only ever get bigger.
<HazRPG> I always give desktop no more than 15GB
<HazRPG> however for a server........ now thats a different question S:
<scumbag> So back to LVM. You can resize your partitions if you have LVM on top of them. Which solves that problem but adds to the learning curve.
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> indeed
<scumbag> So, headaches all round... Plenty to think about.
<HazRPG> indeed, and i was hoping to get this installed tonight too :/ lol
<scumbag> Well good luck. It's time for me to get back to the grind.
<HazRPG> scumbag: what you one with?
<scumbag> one?
<HazRPG> on*
<HazRPG> what you up to basically :P
<HazRPG> also, do you come on #ubuntu-uk often?
<HazRPG> cos ya seem like a few face (sorta speak :P)
<HazRPG> but a knowledgable one though
<scumbag> Me, It's a long story...... I'm from the UK but I'm living in China. I used to work in an IT Department in a School. Moved to China with many promises of work and.....
<scumbag> I'm here now and then........... not so often and I guess I am a new face.
<HazRPG> ah, don't be a stranger then :P
<HazRPG> many people here aren't from the UK, just cos we're friendlier I guess :P
<scumbag> I'll try and pop back more, I need the company LOL!
<HazRPG> sucks about the promises of work, I know a few people who have been in a similar situation... kinda sucks really
<scumbag> Been here for two years, one more to go and the wife 's contract will be done.
<HazRPG> awesome, well have fun with your... er... grind xD lol!
<scumbag> Sure things and "I'll be back......"
<HazRPG> haha
<HazRPG> laterz :P
<HazRPG> *rolls on the floor trying to work out partionion schemes*
<HazRPG> fail, seems like one of those nights :/ partitioning*
<HazRPG> wow why is it that I can't remember how I installed sshd onto my VPS :S
<popey> HazRPG: sudo apt-get install openssh-server
<popey> ?
<popey> !ssh
<lubotu3> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol, see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH for client usage. PuTTY is an SSH client for Windows; see: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ for it's homepage. See also !scp (Secure CoPy) and !sshd (Secure SHell Daemon)
<popey> \o/
<popey> !sshd
<lubotu3> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol, sshd is the server (or daemon) of SSH. For setting up the SSH server, please see: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/openssh-server.html . Advanced SSH uses: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/OpenSSH/Advanced . For SSH client information, see !ssh . Related: !scp (Secure CoPy)
<popey> \o/
<HazRPG> yeah when i typed "sudo apt-get install sshd" i just said "bahhh what you want? I don't have!"
<HazRPG> s/i just/it just*
<HazRPG> openssh-server you say? (gives that a whirl)
<HazRPG> popey: score, much thanks :D
<HazRPG> hmmmmmmm
<HazRPG> i always thought the MOTD changed
<HazRPG> for some reason its insisting that I have 47 packages to update, and 26 security updates... but well sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get -u upgrade tells me differently :/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I think it updates only every once in a while
<geekMePlease> What is the format of the data at http://paste.ubuntu.com/596789/ ? It does not seem to dot -data. It was obtained by Orange.
<AlanBell> bug 685552 has a lot of duplicates
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 685552 in unity (Ubuntu Natty) "Compiz crashes when (en|dis)abling a plugin (ccsm) aka compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in sigc::signal_base::impl()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/685552
<AlanBell> HazRPG: just "sudo apt-get install ssh" pulls in ssh and sshd
<HazRPG> AlanBell: that pulled in openssh-server too though iirc
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> anyone else have flash broken on a recent Maverick update?
<AlanBell> uninstalled and reinstalled flashplugin-installer
<AlanBell> now I can watch videos of my little pony that popey put on facebook \\o/
<HazRPG> AlanBell: xD
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I'm just using the beta flash stuff from adobe, so wouldn't know lol
<HazRPG> keep hoping they'll fix fullscreen :/
<DJones> Good morning
<AlanBell> HazRPG: I was just thinking that fullscreen was working rather well
<AlanBell> apart from the multi-monitor thing
<AlanBell> where fullscreen flash un-fullscreens itself when you try and do something on a window on another monitor
<gpd> I get vertical sync issues with fullscreen flash on my mythtv
<AlanBell> http://www.ted.com/talks/kathryn_schulz_on_being_wrong.html I was watching that fullscreen, no apparent issues
<DJones> Interesting report on Natty http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/21/ubuntu_11_04_windows_android_users/
<HazRPG> AlanBell: my issue with fullscreen goes beyond that... it's the fact that it /always/ opens in the default window regardless of placement, and the fact that having 2 screens makes the fullscreen video smaller than when it was embedded on the site
 * AlanBell sees fail
<AlanBell> yeah, however my screens are the other way round!
<HazRPG> because it tries to grab the full environment size, and then tries to place it into just one screen... so it shrinks it down getting a bizare wide-screen effect
<AlanBell> so if I fullscreen on the laptop it does attempt to fullscreen on that monitor, but using the 2048x1152 resolution of the big screen
<HazRPG> heh random
<HazRPG> mines scales down from 1280x2048 to 1280x1024
<Myrtti> universe: I love you â¥
<HazRPG> or is it 2560x1024 to 1280x1024...
<HazRPG> you know what I mean :P
<danfish> goooooood morning vietnam!
<danfish> \o/ 4 days off and the forecast is sun
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<MartijnVdS> danfish: what are you doing up at this time then? :P
<danfish> MartijnVdS: ah - 4got to say "starting tomorrow"
<danfish> do you have Good Friday and Easter Monday as Bank holidays in Nederland?
<MartijnVdS> danfish: We get Easter Monday off, bot not Good Friday
<MartijnVdS> Too bad Queen's Day (i.e. the previous queen's birthday) is on a Saturday this year, so no extra day off there
<MartijnVdS> so I'll have a three-day weekend
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * shauno does the bacon o'clock happy dance
 * DJones likes this idea of a 4 day week, followed by a 3 day week, followed by another 4 day week because of bank holidays
<shauno> heh, welcome to my world.  I only do a 5-day week, once every 5 weeks :)
<DJones> How do you manage that, longer hours?
<oimon> i do a 7 day week but only work for 5 of them usually
<shauno> yeah.  10 & 12hr shifts, and weekends
<shauno> 3 on, 2 off, 2 on, 2 off, 3 on, 2 off, 5 on, 2 off, 3 on ..
<shauno> messy, but I swear I average more than one weekend per week :)
<DJones> So 40 hours a week minimum, mine is only 37.5hrs, but working longer per day and doing fewer days does sound a good plan
<shauno> that's what I like about this.  I have to wake up less often.  that's the hard part of most days for me
<oimon> the problem with stumbling upon a great job is that one day you will have to get another job, and then you will be sad
<matti> ivanka: ;]
<ivanka> hi matti
<matti> ;]
 * oimon is hesitant to jump up and down about the iphone tracking revelations since he owns an android..wouldn't be surprised to find that data sitting on my phone too
<matti> oimon: THEY know what you did last summer...
<matti> ;]
<bigcalm> oimon: use a mod instead. It's more likely that it would have been removed by a modder if found
<bigcalm> Och, that was a bad film
<bigcalm> Is anybody here actively useing Sparkle Share?
<DJones> Sounds like something from a My Little Pony toy
<directhex> bigcalm, imho it's not ready yet
<directhex> bigcalm, it's close though
<directhex> bigcalm, i have a list of issues from last time i evaluated it for the office...
<bigcalm> directhex: I've been following it for months. Wondering if I finally have time to play with it
<popey> oimon: i thought android was worse, they actually use your data for the traffic on google maps
<popey> whereas the iphone data is just y'know, on your phone and in your backups
<bigcalm> Once a windows client comes out that intergrates as simply as the dropbox one does, then I'll be moving myself away from dropbox
<bigcalm> popey: that's a clever use of data
<popey> dont hold your breath for the u1 windows client
<popey> i tried it, it's not great
<oimon> popey: what data do they use for maps?
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> directhex: do you know if one can use multiple servers with Sparkle Share?
<popey> oimon: location
<oimon> popey: sorry, i still don't get it
<oimon> i might be being dumb today
<directhex> bigcalm, one per repository. i got it working over a straight ssh connection to a shared box... albeit with some messy constraints
<popey> imagine you and all the cars around you are in a traffic jam
<popey> they are all android phones and are all reporting their location
<popey> that location isnt moving fast
<bigcalm> Would be good to have it connect to a personal server and a company server
<popey> google uses that info to update their traffic data on the google maps website and in the maps app
<oimon> location via mobile triangulation or GPS?
<gord> thats only if you are using some sort of routing or something in gmaps right?
<popey> both
<popey> not aiui gord
<gord> my phone never uses any location tracking unless i enable it
<oimon> didn't realise traffic data was available on google maps
<oimon> i use the RAC app
<oimon> basically it's a crowdsourcing feature.
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> http://www.trafficengland.com/map.aspx?long0=-192.3043589671317&lat0=3200.7488365561894&long1=22.903048440275825&lat1=3109.185785708732&ct=true
<bigcalm> That's about as authoritive as one can get
<popey> Loading map...
<popey> Time passes
<oimon> it is dark here
<bigcalm> Heh
<oimon> you were hit by a grue
<bigcalm> Ooooo
<bigcalm> Tempted to re-install nethack
<oimon> popey: i don't think the data would be uploaded to google if i wasn't running maps though
<bigcalm> Thanks you two :P
<oimon> wait for applet to be loaded
<bigcalm> Huray for sucky java
<oimon> "Traffic England has been built to work with and tested against  Microsoftâs Internet Explorer 6.0 and 7.0, Firefox 2.0 and 3.0 and  Safari 3. Users of other browsers and versions (such as Internet  Explorer 8) may experience minor compatibility problems and where  possible it is recommended that users may wish to configure their  browsers to emulate Internet Explorer to use this site (for IE8 use  Compatibility View)."
<popey> still not loaded
<popey> well thats a bag of crap then
 * popey closes that tab
<popey> "Authorititive" indeed
<oimon> it just crashed my firefox
<popey> http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.592505,-4.042969&spn=12.405334,32.915039&t=h&z=5&layer=t
<gord> maybe there is just no traffic?
<popey> just works
<bigcalm> popey: linked to from highways.gov.uk
<bigcalm> One would hope that their information was to be trusted
<popey> their information may be, if it were accessible
<oimon> i use the webcam views from the bbc website
<popey> which it isnt
<popey> also
<popey> http://popey.com/graphs/ubuntu-uk-current.png
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> Doesn't mean that their implimentation isn't buggered though
<bigcalm> A wee beastie!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Any mod_rewrite gurus in da ouse'
 * bigcalm grumbles
<shauno> aww, -current says I have nae pals
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: I spend a lot of my time grumbling with mod_rewrite but might be able to help
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ohh thanks.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think this is quite straightforward.
<bigcalm> Don't ask to ask, just ask ;)
<MartijnVdS> I know a few things as well
<MartijnVdS> !ask | TheOpenSourcerer
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<lubotu3> TheOpenSourcerer: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<popey> heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> strip .html from urls and add a trailing slah
<oimon> popey: are you tracking our irc usage :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's a static page site
<bigcalm> oimon: the topic says that the channel is logged any way :)
<oimon> bigcalm: yep, it was tongue in cheek :)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: RewriteRule (.*)/? $1.html
<MartijnVdS> ?
<dogmatic69> anyone know why some folders are highlighted in terminal and others not?
<TheOpenSourcerer> So I'd like to redirect the url in the browser bar from say /aboutus.html to /aboutus/
<bigcalm> oimon: I need more tea
<shauno> dogmatic69: usually permissions, sometimes other attributes
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: permissions
<oimon> i need to earn my wages.
<oimon> breakfast is over
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/rewrite/ -- does anything in there help? :)
<dogmatic69> shauno, bigcalm: ok thanks. is there something wrong about the permissions ?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it has pretty pictures :P
<shauno> dogmatic69: depends what colour it is :)
<dogmatic69> green
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: ls -l to see which files/dirs have which permissions. That will give you an idea about highlight rules
<bigcalm> Exec
<dogmatic69> blue text, green bg
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> Exec dir?
<shauno> on mine, a green bg is the stickybit
<MartijnVdS> hmm sticky bits
<dogmatic69> http://oi54.tinypic.com/24x18k2.jpg
<popey> oimon: yes!
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: ^
<popey> http://popey.com/graphs/ubuntu-current.png looks more fun
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it could be world-writable
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: ok, i did chmod a+w on the folders
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks guys.
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: what MartijnVdS said
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: don't do that.. use u+w or g+w :)
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: that's why it's annoying-green ;)
<dogmatic69> hehe
<DJones> popey: What period does that graphic cover
<dogmatic69> well it needs to be w for www-data
<dogmatic69> should i add www-data to ubuntu group or something?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: what framework/orm is that?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: uhrm.. no?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: what are you trying to do?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: cakephp
<bigcalm> Ah, yes
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: either install php as fastcgi (and run it as the Ubuntu user with suexec etc.)
<bigcalm> Why I didn't see that the 1st time I dunno
<dogmatic69> appalling use of cake btw
<TheOpenSourcerer> One other question on mod_rewrite if I may. Can it rewrite the urls that are served out to the user?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: or run Apache as a different user/group for this vhost (is that possible? per-vhost uid switches? :)
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: i got to maintain 5ish of these legacy systems. dont want more work
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: sort of
<TheOpenSourcerer> I can type http:///my-site/aboutus/
<TheOpenSourcerer> and that works.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But the url in the browser chnages to anoutus.html
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you can have it send out a "moved permanently" if the user hits the "wrong" URL, then the browser will redirect to the correct URL
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://my-site/aboutus.html
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: dont think its good to run apache as ubuntu on the ec2 boxes, ubuntu ~= root
<dogmatic69> can sudo with no pw
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: there are some "no-www" mod_rewrite scripts out there
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: those do something like that (but they strip the www. bit instead of the .html bit)
<popey> DJones: curent
<popey> ish
<popey> DJones: i only upload every 5 mins but it generates a new one every few seconds
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: ah.. and you really need to write in those directories?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: chgrp them to be group www-data
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK so I am looking for redirect stuff. Thanks MartijnVdS I'll go fishing
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: yes, the guy that wrote this saves images there, not in 'webroot'
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: best would be to keep writeable directories outside the document root :)
<DJones> popey: I could see a link between myself & somebody I was helping, I was guessing at about an hour's data/conersations
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: tell me about it...
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: I'm so glad I don't run php
 * bigcalm sighs
<bigcalm> PHP is a good language that gets poorly implimented at times. It shouldn't get the hatred it gets :(
<MartijnVdS> Agreed, it should get more :P
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: s/at times/most of the time
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Best would be to create a new user, use PHP as a FastCGI daemon running as that user
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: and then chown everything to that new user
<dogmatic69> my biggest gripe with php is the low barrier to entry
<MartijnVdS> (fastcgi daemon or autostarting it)
<MartijnVdS> http://michiel.vanbaak.info/docsphp5fcgi.htm
<dogmatic69> tx, ill look into this
<dogmatic69> but iirc there is issues with this code and fcgi
<dogmatic69> and persistent db connections
<MartijnVdS> fcgi does persistent db connections
<dogmatic69> and pretty much everything else
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dogmatic69> o/
<brobostigon> morning dogmatic69
<dwatkins> hiya folks
<MartijnVdS> howdy dwatkins
<brobostigon> good morning dwatkins and MartijnVdS
<dwatkins> I trust everyone is well this fine day and not having major computer problems.
<MartijnVdS> not yet.. :)
<brobostigon> not yet either, :)
<brobostigon> yet* with emphesis.
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: its the last day of the week, nice long weekend... just after i upgrade this box this afternoon
<dogmatic69> :)
<dwatkins> I think I'm working tomorrow and Monday, that way I get days in lieu to use another time.
<Myrtti> in Finland I think you'd get double salary for working on Sundays and bank holidays
<bigcalm> I wouldn't want to work in the toilet
<dwatkins> hehe
<gord> oh, so thats why its so warm, i still have my central heating on
 * gord turns that off for the summer
<dwatkins> I keep turning the thermostat down at home.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: https://launchpad.net/~bryce/+archive/fig might interest you, a possible gpu lockup/hang fix.
<danfish> in Soviet Russia, we do not turn thermostat down - thermostat turns us down ;)
 * danfish stops daydreaming and returns to work
<gord> *sudden realisation that tomorrow is a day off*
<X3N> whoop
<dogmatic69> gord: and monday
<X3N> baiscally a 4 day weekend
<davmor2> morning all
<dogmatic69> X3N: just not when you freelancing :/
<gord> yeah but mondays off aren't that exciting, its basically second sunday
<gord> but a friday off? now thats a thing
<dogmatic69> gord: nope, its Saturday, Saturday, Saturday, Sunday
<czajkowski> gord: 4 day weekend folollowed by 3 day week followed by 3 day weekend
<dogmatic69> then nex week is Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, Saturday, Saturday, Sunday
<dogmatic69> czajkowski: next weekend is 4 days also
<gord> three day weekend for me, i have to go to stoopid Budapest :(
<dogmatic69> ah
<davmor2> gord: I'm out the week after :P
<gord> davmor2, bring tea and biscuits
<gord> god help you if you don't bring tea and biscuits.
<bigcalm> czajkowski: do you not have may day off?
<czajkowski> yes
<bigcalm> Then it's 4 off, 3 on, 4 off
<gord> i'm leaving UDS half way through, so i'll take the thursday and friday off. then its EUROVISION! :D
<bigcalm> People still watch that?
<davmor2> gord: I'm screwed then I don't drink tea
<gord> davmor2, its not for you! >:(
<gord> oop popey is having a "conversation" with fabsh on the identica's - there goes my twitter stream for the next hours ;)
<davmor2> gord: haha, I doubt you'll be in a fit state to do anything any way :P
 * DJones logs into identica to watch
<davmor2> popey: don't let him out rant you :P
<popey> bored of it already
<bigcalm> I have 2 easter eggs hidden for Hayley. Do people wrap them?
<popey> yes, wrap them in brown paper
<popey> and a box
<popey> and put a stamp on it
<popey> and post it to me
<bigcalm> Ha
<dutchie> you can post it to popey's address in oxford
<dutchie> i will look after it for him
<Myrtti> aw, I suppose I could go and get more mignon eggs
<bigcalm> Fnar
<Myrtti> if only I weren't so tired
<gord> do they make easter eggs that are basically just giant cream eggs yet?
<gord> with flakes for dipping
<Myrtti> lol
<bigcalm> gord: that's a distubing diea
<bigcalm> idea
<shauno> disturbing?  that's a fantastic idea
<dogmatic69> cream eggs ~= tooth ache that you can buy
<DJones> gord: http://nutrition.cadbury.co.uk/epages/Store.storefront/?ObjectPath=/Shops/NutriApp/Products/11002453
<bigcalm> Oh no
<gord> "Chocolate Egg Shell Only 2
<DJones> Ah, chocolate shell only
<gord> any kid that opens that is going to be hugely disappointed
<bigcalm> No kidding
<DJones> gord: Home made? http://www.ivorysky.com/creme-egg/index.php
<gord> if you are gonna make your own you might as well just eat a big bag of sugar
<DJones> I always find the cadburys creme eggs to be too sickly sweet
<DJones> In the village where i work, Waitrose does an easter egg hunt for kids & asks some of teh shops to put an egg on display in the window for them to hunt for, with the sun over the last few days, we've now got a 1 inch high block of chocolate in the shop window rather than an egg now
<dwatkins> we used to do an easter egg hunt at my parents each year, and we'd always find eggs from the previous year covered in dust
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: your hunting skills are weak
<brobostigon> yay, the number port seems to have gone ok,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: \o
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I has ubuntu server :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yay, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/
<HazRPG> having trouble with minecraft server running off it though :(
<brobostigon> lol
<brobostigon> i mean at the text onthe front page.
<brobostigon> :(
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: how much ram you got?
<willy_1977> 'ow do.
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: pass, I want to say 2GB though
<HazRPG> (I bought this about 4 years ago lol)
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> is that a home server
<HazRPG> yeah
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<dogmatic69> can haz more rams
<dogmatic69> fill it up if you want to play mc
<HazRPG> don't think it's a ram issue, its running fine... except when someone tries to do something, it goes "derp, derp, I shall kick you out!"
<dogmatic69> min requirements say 2gb
 * dogmatic69 runs it on slicehost 256mb though
<HazRPG> it was working perfectly in windows server :P
<dogmatic69> ew
<HazRPG> so you'd think now that I've shifted it to ubuntu-server instead, it would run better... surely?
<dogmatic69> working and windows dont go together ;)
<shauno> server shouldn't require 2Gb, runs fine with -Xms1024M for me
<HazRPG> heh well yeah, this is why I've finally killed it after 4 years or heartache
<dogmatic69> it was pretty simple the last time i used it, wget the file, run the command. play
<dogmatic69> -Xms200M works for me
<dogmatic69> load goes to about 15, but it manages
<popey> java -server -Xmn512M -Xms1024M -Xmx2500M -XX:+UseConcMarkSweepGC -XX:+DisableExplicitGC -XX:+UseAdaptiveGCBoundary -XX:MaxGCPauseMillis=500 -XX:-UseGCOverheadLimit -XX:SurvivorRatio=16 -Xnoclassgc -XX:UseSSE=3 -XX:ParallelGCThreads=3 -jar minecraft_server.jar nogui
<popey> thats what I do
<Linux_junkie> anyone know of a good/decent community based game?
<popey> minecraft :D
<directhex> "community based"?
<Linux_junkie> i mean games you play with others online
<Linux_junkie> is minecraft same as warcraft?
<HazRPG> Linux_junkie: you can with minecraft xD
<HazRPG> Linux_junkie: not really lol
<directhex> Linux_junkie, no, it's not
<HazRPG> its a "crafting" game
<Linux_junkie> crafting game, whats that?
<HazRPG> http://minecraft.net/
<Linux_junkie> thanx for url i'll check it out
<Linux_junkie> virgins thinking about it
<Linux_junkie> is its server down?
<dogmatic69> Linux_junkie: you can build a barracks if you like
<Linux_junkie> I probably can in the time its taking to load the page
<dogmatic69> opened instantly for me
<oimon> beware that minecraft is like drugs..you will lose 9 months of your life and wonder what you've been doing all that time :)
<dogmatic69> i bought it start of december, managed to get out by mid jan
<dogmatic69> 16+ hours pd
<dogmatic69> been clean ever since
<oimon> dogmatic69: how did you kick it?
<directhex> add a www
<directhex> you need a www for some urls
<dogmatic69> oimon: ran out of money for food, had to start working
<dogmatic69> :D
<shauno> shoulda just planted more wheat
<dogmatic69> had a automatic farming farm going
<dogmatic69> automated farm rather
<shauno> I have a bacon farm, but if I try to use it while the missus is home, I have to mute :(
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> she a veg person?
<shauno> I wish.  that'd make more sense :)
<dogmatic69> my ex was one when we met... not eaten meat for 10+ years
<shauno> (she doesn't eat pork products because "pigs don't sweat".  don't ask me, I have no idea what she's on about)
<dogmatic69> lasted about 2 months and she was on the bacons
<oimon> that's because nobody can resist a bacon sarnie
<dogmatic69> lol
<Linux_junkie> just managed to get onto website of minecraft
<Linux_junkie> watched the video
<oimon> chickens don't sweat either
<Linux_junkie> looks like lego
<dogmatic69> my mom's ex work colleague was Muslim and ate bacon.. did not know it was pork for more than 2 years
<dogmatic69> loved every bite
<oimon> dogmatic69: if she got it in subway, it wasn't bacon :)
<Linux_junkie> lol
<dogmatic69> lol
<shauno> lego's a not a bad explanation.  it's like second life with more lego, and less intimate moments with horses.
<oimon> $deity won't be pleased with her
<dogmatic69> meat surprise
<Linux_junkie> a lot of muslims eat bacon / pork
<oimon> Linux_junkie: because it's tasty!
<brobostigon> question, i just ported my number, from one network to another, and it seems to have worked, however my phone is showing the old number for  said sim, not the new ported one.
<dogmatic69> Linux_junkie: obviously, who can resist bacon?
<oimon> you gotta have a good reason not to eat it
<dogmatic69> brobostigon: if you ported the number does not change, surely?
<oimon> weak opinions and principles fade away in the presence of bacon sarnie
<Linux_junkie> i think its only the extremists that are against eating pork
<brobostigon> dogmatic69: i expected my phone to show the change in number, connected to that sim.
<oimon> Linux_junkie: depends on your definition of extremist
<Linux_junkie> someone whos extreme in their views
<Linux_junkie> right-wing
<oimon> lol
<oimon> if i believe in a God who said you aren't allowed to do $thing , then i don't do the thing. since, by definition God is GOD and said it for a reason
<shauno> I don't think extreme has to be right.  they're just more noticable because extreme left are easily ignored hippies.
<popey> simplistic view is simplistic
<Linux_junkie> but if you believe in God you will also believe that God gave us free-will
<dogmatic69> not eating something is not exactly extreme, some people do it just to be healthy
<oimon> free will to choose right and wrong, yes, but there is still right and wrong
<Linux_junkie> true
<shauno> right, wrong, and bacon
<Linux_junkie> but right and wrong in one persons eyes is not the same in others
<oimon> right and wrong in God's eyes is surely the only thing that matters, if he is by definition all knowing and all powerful creator $deity?
<dogmatic69> extreme would be killing people due to ^
<shauno> (otoh, people are rumoured to taste like bacon ..)
<shauno> I read an article a while ago about some device which was meant to be able to determine what something tasted like.
<oimon> i've got one of those
<Linux_junkie> its called your tongue
<shauno> it determined that a researcher's hand tasted like prosciutto.  and it became immediately apparent how this whole robot takeover was going to happen.
<shauno> we're building machines that believe we taste like bacon.  the end is inevitable.
<Linux_junkie> lol
<oimon> if i didn't bring a home-made pot noodle to work today, i'd definitely be having bacon sarnie right now
<dogmatic69> always room for a bacon sarnie
<dogmatic69> *always*
<davmor2> dogmatic69: I think you meant ***ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!!***
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> <h1 style="font-size: âpx">ALWAYS</h1>
<DJones> Slightly offtopic, but does anybody have access to a Windows 7 machine that has Sage Line 50 on it? I'm just trying to find out whether its possible to run 2 instances of the program at the same time?
<DJones> I thought I'd read that Win7 would allow some apps to do that
<oimon> mwahahah
<oimon> once i was saddled with sage 50,100 and 200 support
<oimon> got out of there quick as i could
<DJones> Heh
<directhex> DJones, i don't think that's possible is it?
<directhex> DJones, sage locks its user db when someone is using it
<DJones> directhex: Possibly not because we're using a multi user version
<DJones> As long as I've got two login's, I would be able to login from 2 seperate machines, I'm just wondering whether Win 7's supposed feature of being able to run multiple instances of the same program would let me login twice from the same machine
<HazRPG> I killed apache! \o/
<HazRPG> T_T
<brobostigon> lol
<brobostigon> :(
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: sudo apt-get remove apache2 && sudo apt-get install cherokee
<HazRPG> heh
<MartijnVdS> cherokee â¥
<shauno> nginx \o/
<directhex> manos!
 * directhex flees
<oimon> just received email: "We are having some problems with the lifts in the building today, and some people have reported getting stuck between floors or lifts not going to the correct floor."
<oimon> think i'll walk
<MartijnVdS> oimon: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087622/
<shauno> that obviously calls for an impromptu redecoration of the area immediately surrounding the lift doors
<MartijnVdS> shauno: what, tardis blue?
<shauno> just thinking some potted plants, maybe some chairs where they didn't use to be, etc
<shauno> anything that'd throw someone into immediate doubt that they're at the right floor :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: big signs (on the wrong floors) announcing floor numbers  :)
<shauno> random posters for the wrong company ..
<oimon> shauno: unfortunately just grey 60s concrete in our builidng
<gord> amazon don't seem to be able to deliver anything on time anymore
<gord> well royal mail, but still, they shouldn't be using royal mail
<shauno> not even ec2, apparently :/
<oimon> MartijnVdS:  a typical journey in my lift at work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1ptiedsJzQ
<oimon> needs sound
<MartijnVdS> oimon: is that GlaDOS?
<oimon> hehe
<oimon> she can't count, whoever she is
<MartijnVdS> oimon: play Portal some time :)
<oimon> i get it :)
<oimon> only slightly less annoying voice
<oimon> plus the chatty lift from hitchhikers
<MartijnVdS> haha :) yes
<shauno> ugh.  if they don't hurry up and fix reddit, I might actually get something done today
<MartijnVdS> hah, I know the feeling
<MartijnVdS> Amazon says "all green"
<MartijnVdS> oh wait.. that's Europe 8-)
<shauno> believe it's just rdbms for east-coast US
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<myrtti> meh
<MichealH> I am so dumb
<MichealH> I was in a /etc directory, fixing permissions when I stupidly went sudo chmod 574 ../
<MichealH> I now cannot sudo them back or anything :/
<shauno> literally ../  ?
<AlanBell> MichealH: sudo can do anything
<oimon> without a * or a -R i'm not sure that you have done much damage
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: not if /etc/ is group-writable
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: then it might not trust /etc/sudoers
<AlanBell> ooh heck
<brobostigon> bye, speak later, i am going to pop into town.
<oimon> it's quite nice out i heear
<MichealH> AlanBell: Sudo needs to read /etc/sudoers
<brobostigon> oimon: quite sunny, yes,
<AlanBell> so you if you can't sudo -i it is reboot time and single user mode
<MichealH> which NEEDS 0440 permissions
<shauno> do you not get to keep your tty_ticket long enough to sudo -s and go clean up ?
<MichealH> oimon: I did a -R
<oimon> doh
<MichealH> sudo -s?
<MichealH> sudo: /etc/sudoers is mode 0574, should be 0440
<MichealH> sudo: no valid sudoers sources found, quitting
<shauno> a shell.  when the proverbial hits the fan, it's my kingdom for a root shell
<MichealH> Whoopsies :P
<shauno> oh well.  yeah.  livecd and/or singleuser
<MichealH> AlanBell: Singleuser?
<MichealH> shauno: So I could mount the partition and manually reset all permissions?
<shauno> in theory, yes.  it's likely to ruin most your weekend tho
<MichealH> Yeah :P
<MichealH> And what is singleuser?
<davmor2> MichealH: boot into safe mode you'll be root you can then mod accordingly
<MichealH> Ubuntu Minimal supports it?
<MichealH> Its my server, which is even more of a blow
<davmor2> MichealH: Do you have physical access?
<MichealH> Yeah
<MichealH> Oh yeah, shift at grub shows it
<davmor2> MichealH: then boot into safe mode you can then edit as root, bypassing sudo :)
<shauno> lkagan's script on http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=365889 is actually pretty sane.  it'll query dpkg for the original permissions of anything that's system-installed
<MichealH> Yeah, Im now root, thanks!
<shauno> sounds like it'll most likely do 90% of your job for you.   otherwise, I'd be tempted to look towards my backups :)
<MichealH> Its running now :)
<MichealH> Thanks shauno
<MichealH> and everythink is back to normal, thanks
<MichealH> and thanks davmor2 :)
<MichealH> shauno: How can I fix this? My prompt now says I have no name!@server
<MichealH> :/
<HazRPG> man is this what we sound like sometimes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1UfOEC_oEQ
<shauno> MichealH: is that while you're still in singleuser?
<MichealH> shauno: Nope
<shauno> nothing will seem same in safe mode.  you'll want to do what needs to be done to restore sanity, and boot back into home sweet home
<MichealH> I did and it cannot read /etc/profile ect.
<MichealH> all the important its :/
<Myrtti> btw Cooking for geeks ebook is -50% again
<MichealH> *bits
<MichealH> shauno: Do you think I should just reinstall the damn thing?
<MichealH> :P
<shauno> if it's a sensible option, or you have recent backups, yes I'd be very tempted.  otherwise you're going to be chasing this down in strange places for quite some time :/
<shauno> (unless anyone else has any ideas.  getting what you can from dpkg, and then rolling up your sleeves and getting dirty, is about the only one I've got here)
<popey> hmm?
<popey> wassup?
<popey> oh, broken system
<popey> almost certainly going to be faster to reinstall MichealH
<MichealH> popey: Yeah, gonna do that now
<shauno> that's a pretty fun 'oops', because it will come back to haunt you for months :/
<shauno> atleast when you accidentally nuke things, you can see what's wrong with them
<MichealH> shauno: Haunt me? :P
<MichealH> How?
<shauno> well, if dpkg thinks you've changed things that you haven't, it'll pass over them on future upgrades, etc
<shauno> bad perms can give all kinds of subtle things that you won't notice
<MartijnVdS> bad perms? Back to the 80s! :)
<shauno> hah
<shauno> completely off-topic.  if someone walks up to your desk and knocks _on the desk_, how am I meant to deal with this ?
<popey> hehe
<popey> MichealH: someone else called Michael did a similar thing to the ubuntu-uk.org server!
<DJones> Open a drawer and tell them to get in
<popey> but under /var
<shauno> DJones: that works.  I wish I'd thought of that
<shauno> I just pulled a gormless blank stare while my brain tried to figure out what/why just happened :/
<MichealH> popey: Someone on the forums did it on "/"
<MichealH> :P
<popey> shauno: are they german?
<shauno> nope .. native
<shauno> middle-management, however
<popey> you could say "come in!"
<popey> "not today thank you"
<popey> "sorry, I dont buy from peddlars"
<DJones> Ignore them and pretend you're not there (A bit like knows at the door on halloween)
<popey> type your reply in a word processor in big letters
<popey> I did that on a plane once
<popey> someone was staring at my screen. we both had headphones on
<shauno> just never seen someone do that before :/   I mean .. it's a desk.  I'm right here.
<popey> so i opened word processor, jacked up font to 48 pt, and typed "WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT?"
<shauno> heh
<DJones> shauno: Were you concentrating at the screen
<shauno> hah, that'll be the day
<DJones> You could have been looking at IRC
<popey> heh
<popey> someone actually _just_ looked at my screen
<popey> "that looks interesting"
<shauno> for most of the day, we've been trying to find out how fast a chair has to be going to flip when it hits cables
<DJones> Not "Are you hacking?"
<popey> "your operating system screen looks interesting"
<shauno> if people look over me, they'll usually end up trying to make sense of mutt
<willy_1977> personally if people look over me uninvited I tell them to fook off...this has led to a reputation at the office
<shauno> man stack exchange is fun.  > I'm looking for a UPS capable of running my laptop for about 10-12 hours.
<shauno> no you're not.  that's crazy.
<oimon> shauno: they were politely but awkwardly saying , can i interrupt
<shauno> oimon: no-one does that around here :/
<oimon> i have a door
<shauno> I'm rather badly positioned, in that most people will get my attention by throwing things in my general direction
<oimon> i'd say he was being more polite than the average user then
<MichealH> Whenever someone looks over my shoulder they will see me have around 5 terminals open and IRC, or 1 minecraft and IRC
<MichealH> :p
<oimon> yesterday i tried to read someones thoughts on the train
<oimon> it worked
<DJones> I have a door and two guard staff before visitors get to me, not that they'd stop anyone, just that our room is small & people can't get past them with ease
<oimon> step 1  - look over their shoulder as they feverishly typing in twitter app on iphone .
<shauno> stuffed toys are fun.  knocking on a desk is a little awkward.
<oimon> step 2 - iphone display username at top of screen in big letters...visit twitter.com/<username> :P
<oimon> step 3- read stream of conciousness
<DJones> oimon: Thats a conflict there, twitter and concious thought.....? Can't be
<oimon> not for stalking purposes, but potentially for social engineering purposes when in a pub and need to trick a semi-stranger you only just met :P
<oimon> DJones: stream of effluent
<DJones> That sounds more appropriate
<oimon> pootube
<oimon> if i eat 1 kitkat per day, i wonder what size tin foil sculpture i could make in 1 year
<MichealH> Hmm.. Off to play minecraft :P
<DJones> Whats the saying, What do you get if you merge twitter, youtube and facebook...You-twit-face
<oimon> or "the internet" for many people
<davmor2> DJones: A punch in the face you say that to some of the people I know who use those three :)
<DJones> :)
<Myrtti> oh ... wow? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/21/ivan_kaspersky_missing/
<popey> erk
<oimon> i was at the infosec event
<oimon> had an amusing convo with the kaspersky guys
<bigcalm> Don't VirginMedia re-brand Kaspersky?
<gord> no portal 2 for me this week then :( stupid amazon
<gord> stupid royal mail
<bigcalm> Awww
<oimon> isn't it via steam?
<gord> ps3
<bigcalm> He went for the physical copy
<gord> i could contact steam support and super duper promise that the ps3 copy is coming so they can authorise my pc version now i guess. that would totally work
<shauno> I'd be tempted to try that, if you've got some form of proof of purchase.  what's the worst that can happen
<bigcalm> Glados could happen
<gord> you could sell your ps3 copy when it arrives ;)
<davmor2> gord: do me a favour click open system settings (control centre) and try snapping it to the left and right of the screen in natty :)
<gord> davmor2, ha
<davmor2> gord: you like :)
<gord> neat trick
<gord> not a bug because we did our final release already, unity is bug free!
<davmor2> haha
<gord> and our compiz guy went to bed it seems
<davmor2> sru maybe :P
<gord> oh yeah, we totally get sru's all the time, those are soooo easy to get
<shauno> bug-free unity?  can we get this in writing?  ;)
<DJones> !logs | shauno :)
<lubotu3> shauno :): Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<DJones> Its been logged
<davmor2> gord: man bed, is that one of those soft rectangular things?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: no.
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: No I'm sure they were called beds, it's in the bedroom, and I use to have a bed time....are you sure?
<popey> http://popey.com/graphs/ubuntu-uk-current.png
<popey> pretty!
<MartijnVdS> popey: your new wallpaper? :)
<popey> hehe
<Myrtti> that's all lies
<popey> i generated them at 720p last year
<popey> this year I am doing them at 1080p
<Myrtti> LIES I TELL YOU
<popey> :)
 * popey cuddles Myrtti 
<popey> ooh, Myrtti you're purple today
<popey> normally you're blue
<popey> this is good!
 * DJones notices that popey is at the centre of the graphic
<DJones> As would be expected
<popey> hah
<popey> gravity and large masses?
<gord> no popey, you are purple
<gord> Myrtti, is red
<gord> thats how its been for years! stop changing the natural order of things.
 * popey cuddles gord 
<Myrtti> popey: you're turquoise and gord is ... purple
<popey> Right!
<popey> Stuff this! I'm going home!
<gord> all the dav*'s are green... when they start talking to each other i just give up
 * MartijnVdS feels colourblind
<popey> bye all!
<MartijnVdS> popey: \o
<davmor2> gord: No popey is purple and Myrtti is a kinda burnt umber
 * gord gets out the dulux colour chart 
<gord> popey is more "velvet dreams"
<davmor2> gord: Red is when I get pinged
 * AlanBell thinks Myrtti is a kind of aubergine
<gord> i switched my colour pallet over to the tango colours years ago :)
<MartijnVdS> gord: Pantone numbers?
<gord> we should all just go back to the format that comic chat uses, so that we can all have totally personalised irc messages
<MartijnVdS> #APPEARS AS TIKI
<shauno> nooooo
<MartijnVdS> shauno: hm?
<shauno> no more comic chat.  that's twice in one year.  it's 2011 already :p
<gord> yeah its 2011 and we are all using *irc*
<gord> comic chat is way newer than that
<MartijnVdS> gord: at least we're using irssi and not ircii or bitchx
<gord> i'm using xchat
<myrtti> this shell server failing lark is getting old
<shauno> updates on this ec2 thing aren't looking too promising :/
<shauno> "Despite the continued effort from the team to resolve the issue we have not made any meaningful progress for the affected database instances since the last update. Create and Restore requests for RDS database instances are not succeeding in US-EAST-1 region."
<AlanBell> wow
<AlanBell> that is a *big* basket of eggs that got dropped then
<AlanBell> happens all the time on the internet, people like to create monopolies
<shauno> it's an 8hr outtage so far.  only for one part of their product, but it's not going to be quiet :/
<AlanBell> I have stuffed up my compiz settings and turned off the thing we are not calling aero snap, how do I turn it back on again?
<gord> AlanBell, enable the grid plugin
<AlanBell> cool, thanks
<MartijnVdS> shauno: no reddit.. it IS going to be quiet
<davmor2> AlanBell: that should be renamed the thing that must not be names
<davmor2> named even
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> really don't like some of the default compiz settings in Natty
<gord> its wonderful that you can completely change them though isn't it? ;)
<gord> if compiz has one thing in abundance, its options
<MartijnVdS> like  kde apps
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Natty Narwhal Nearly Here, On Rotation - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4414
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Lord] How to install OpenERP 6 on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS Server (Part 2  SSL) - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/21/how-to-install-openerp-6-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts-server-part-2-ssl/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=how-to-install-openerp-6-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts-server-part-2-ssl
<Azelphur> someone made this on my minecraft server, xD http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/April%202011/2011-04-21_18.35.59.png
<Azelphur> and I have nocheat loaded, so they had to do that very painstakingly.
 * czajkowski hugs Myrtti 
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Ubuntu Natty in Virtualbox with Unity - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/21/ubuntu-natty-in-virtualbox-with-unity/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-natty-in-virtualbox-with-unity
<daftykins> has anyone encountered the broken MOTD system info about updates after some recent updates for ubuntu server 10.04.2 ?
<daftykins> after a full dist-upgrade and restart, it's still saying there are updates
<daftykins> i ran "sudo /usr/lib/update-notifier/update-motd-updates-available --force" but now on login it lists the message twice :D one with the updates and one with none (correct)
<Azelphur> LOL at three (mobiles) content block page!
<Azelphur> It tells me I have to be over 18 to view a website, and at the top of the page there's adverts for porn :D
<Myrtti> popey: â¥
<Azelphur> will I get in trouble if I post a screenshot of said page? (It's plaintext, no images, but still naughty words)
 * popey hugs Myrtti 
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: just blur out the words with gimp ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> meeeeeeeh
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/April%202011/2011-04-21-202800_229x526_scrot.png \o/
<popey> haha
<popey> thats awesome
<Azelphur> you can't watch youtube because your under 18, so here's some gay porn.
<Azelphur> xD
<popey> :D
<Azelphur> three ftw
<Azelphur> It's even more funny because it's my brothers connection, and he's been trying to prove he's over 18 for 3 days now (He's 36)
<Azelphur> he went down to the store, gave them his passport info, they still don't believe him xD
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: how old are you?
<Azelphur> I'm 20
<Azelphur> My phone doesn't have content lock :D
<Azelphur> But I'm not with three \o/
<MartijnVdS> \o/ nanny ISP
<MartijnVdS> ...
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> it's so funny we joke about my brother and how he's clearly a youngin
<Azelphur> and that he needs to get photo id so he can buy stuff from shops :D
<daftykins> Azelphur: did you kill the screenie already? :(
<Azelphur> nope
<daftykins> ah no works now
<Azelphur> daftykins: my brother even phoned them up about it
<daftykins> :D
<Azelphur> daftykins: he said something along the lines of if I my child was actually using your internet and did happen to bump into this page for going to something non-adult such as youtube, and was presented with this page, I wouldn't be happy. xD
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> that's prime opportunity for a lawsuit in my opinion
<Azelphur> haha
<daftykins> assuming said links work, rather than redirect to the exact same warning page
<Azelphur> daftykins: it takes me to another page that says I must verify that I'm 18+ before I can use this service
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> popey: a friend is having issues with an HP micro server in case you've encountered similar? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1735584
<Azelphur> but the website the porn links are actually meant to go to are in the URL
<Azelphur> it looks like three are reselling porn subscriptions
<daftykins> :D
<AlanBell> daftykins: doubt that has anything to do with the specific hardware
<daftykins> nor would i
<daftykins> but worth asking
<shauno> so after all that fuss, that iphonetracker thing is actually pretty weak.  mostly, I'm surprised at how far away some of the cell towers it's been putting me on are
<shauno> looking at the points it's picked up, you can't even discern what side of town I live on
<shauno> I r disappoint
<Myrtti> awwwwwwwww....
<Myrtti> I'm trying very hard to watch Air Force One
<Myrtti> but it's too exiting
<Myrtti> exciting,e ven
<dragos> ping
<matti> PONG
<winterweaver> ping
<matti> PONG
<winterweaver> :)
<winterweaver> I'm googling to find some docs on how to develop unity lenses, can anyone point me in the right direction 'cause I cannot find anything concrete
<gord> winterweaver, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses should help
<winterweaver> hmm... hehe, whenever I googled I just found OMGUbuntu articles :P
<winterweaver> thx gord
<Azelphur> ali1234: my mums come up with a great solution to my internet problems
<Azelphur> buy a third line! \o/
<matti> #getfiber
<matti> ;d
<Azelphur> I wish XD
<matti> ;p
<matti> Azelphur: In my area in London I am on fiber from small ISP.
<matti> Azelphur: #workslikeaomgzomgcantbetrue
<Azelphur> nice, doubt they cover margate :(
<matti> ;]
<Azelphur> D:
<matti> I remember first day.
<matti> When they added it to the offer.
<matti> And not a lot of people got on it.
<matti> 80 / 40 Mbps for nearly a day d;
<matti> #lifewasgood
<matti> ;d
<Azelphur> damn :p
<matti> Guess how much? ;]
<Azelphur> I want to get vfast
<matti> #prepeareforshock
<Azelphur> they are wireless and they keep their network up to date
<Azelphur> they do 24/24 and 100/100 in trial
<Azelphur> and the 100/100 trialers are #1 in uk for speedtest.net xD
<Azelphur> I think
<Azelphur> dunno
<matti> 20 a month
<matti> ;]
<matti> No telephone line rental etc.
<matti> I have socket on the wall \o/
<Azelphur> nice
<Azelphur> matti I'd prefer vfast
<matti> :)
<Azelphur> matti vfast is nuts, and they keep upgrading their network
<matti> Azelphur: I was with O2 before them... but I moved homes and O2 is oversubscribed here.
<matti> Azelphur: So, one day when I was lurking 'round the flat, I have spotted RJ45 socket on the wall.
<matti> Azelphur: Connected, did a quick sniff, and since then myself and this little ISP are a good friends ;]
 * matti is looking up vfast
<matti> Azelphur: ;]
<Azelphur> hehe
<zleap> 1 week to go :D
<shauno> people all excited for ubuntu vista?
<matti> lol
<zleap> unity looks quite good
<ssorc> hi all
<matti> Hey shauno
<matti> Ops
<matti> He quit
<matti> ;/
<shauno> I did?
<matti> shauno: Not you ;]
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-22
<ali1234> Azelphur: what page were you trying to visit?
<Azelphur> ali1234: I was just hitting stumbleupon lol
<ali1234> the content lock thing?
<jacobw> i don't understand the rationale behind global menu
<jacobw> the space saving is minimal when windows are maximised
<jacobw> and its just confusing when windows aren't maximised
<brobostigon> good evening everyone
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey dwatkins :)
<dwatkins> I'm watching traffic to a website increase as a competition has just been posted on it, just a caption thing between friends, but I suspect it will get a fair number of hits.
<dwatkins> I'm a bit concerned that the machine might become a target as a result, as it has a wordpress blog and a forum plugin, anyone here used the Mingle forum plugin?
<jacobw> a non-techie friend saw my unity desktop today and said 'thats a cool layout' so i can't complain to much
<dwatkins> I'm tempted to try Unity, perhaps when sound works on my Mac.
<jacobw> i'm not sure you'd notice going from mac to unity :p
<shauno> oh you will.  I tried
<dwatkins> tried and went back, shauno?
<shauno> yeah
<shauno> I was completely unprepared for how badly they've managed to break things I take for granted.  shall have to try it when I'm high sometime
<shauno> so far, it's been bad enough that I'm working on plans to migrate ubuntu-server machines back to debian.  I've completely lost faith in ubuntu's ability to cater for it's users, rather than hypothetical future users
<daftykins> highly motivated? :>
<daftykins> reference missed :(
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Simos Xenitellis] Pre-installed Windows and competition in the European Union - http://simos.info/blog/archives/1198?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=pre-installed-windows-and-competition-in-the-european-union
<ali1234> i find this ask slashdot story amusing
<ali1234> http://ask.slashdot.org/story/11/04/21/2311251/Ask-Slashdot-Are-You-Streaming-Only-For-Home-Entertainment
<ali1234> because it assumes that you must either have satellite/cable pay tv, or use internet streaming to buy the same thing
<ali1234> silly americans
<shauno> that's pretty much a given for large parts of the US
<ali1234> yes, i know
<ali1234> they have no FTA worth even mentioning
<ali1234> because giving something away = socialism
<ali1234> hence "silly americans"
<shauno> I'm not sure it's anything to do with giving stuff away.  there's plenty of channels on cable you don't pay for
<shauno> it's not like FTA doesn't contain advertising
<ali1234> you pay for the cable
<ali1234> the "free" channels are like the "free" toy with the happy meal
<ali1234> not free at all
<shauno> in most cases, the shear scale of the place just makes FTA unprofitable
<ali1234> satellite can cover it easily
<ali1234> i wonder what you can get unencrypted on american satellite TV
<shauno> I wouldn't even call that easily.  you end up needing a pretty huge dish
<ali1234> ok, maybe not easily, but certainly a lot easier than terrestrial transmitter network, and absolutely far easier than cabling every house
<shauno> that's it .. cabling them doesn't need to be easy, because enough of them are paying for it
<shauno> it'll make it's cost back
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> public service broadcasting for free is never going to be profitable
<ali1234> nor should it be
<ali1234> but try telling that to the average american
<shauno> I'm not talking about pbs .. the middle-ground where you can be completely ad-supported
<ali1234> that doesn't even work in the UK any more
<ali1234> ITV will be dead within 5 years probably
<shauno> itv's selling deals with the carriers already
<shauno> we just lost all their channels on ntl because they signed exclusivity to someone else
<ali1234> oops
<ali1234> but hang on
<ali1234> it's on FTA and freesat
<ali1234> i mean terrestrial
<ali1234> why would you even have NTL?
<shauno> I'm in ireland
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> you can probably get freesat depending on how far west you are
<ali1234> and questionable legality
<shauno> that's the next catch.  I'm on the atlantic coast :)
<ali1234> ah well. itv sucks anyway
<shauno> rte isn't aweful, for the news atleast.  rte2 doesn't like speaking english.  itv3 is just ulster's itv, and I've no idea what they call channel 4 - it *really* doesn't like speaking english
<daftykins> S4C?
<shauno> naw, that's wales
<daftykins> oh yes, sorry
<daftykins> when i was younger, i would come home from the pub, put the TV on
<daftykins> and because i'd hear an English word every now and then, be convinced i'd gone nuts
<daftykins> i'd sit there furrowing my eyebrows at the TV for ages until i realised it was on S4C :(
<shauno> heh, yeah.  I used to get s4c in barrow, because I had a better line of sight to anglesea than the tower we were meant to be on
<shauno> ah, there we are
<shauno> TG4 (Irish: TG Ceathair or TG a Ceathair; pronounced [tiË dÊiË kÊ²ahÉÉ¾Ê²]) is a public service broadcaster for Irish-language speakers.  - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TG4
<ali1234> speaking of terrestrial tv, has anyone got a working dvb-t2 (HD) usb tuner?
<daftykins> i've never heard irish
<ali1234> according to linux tv wiki there's only two, one is work in progress and the other is not supported
<shauno> if you've heard scots' gaelic, it's not far off
<daftykins> lol WIP and unsupported, great
<daftykins> must sleep, nn o/
<shauno> main reason I have cable here, is because the only other option is dsl via the national telco, and they're pure f*n evil
<shauno> atleast ntl are just incompetent.  eircomm are evil by design.
<shauno> if nothing else, ntl atleast reply to the **AA's with "sure, just get a court order"  instead of eircomm's "sure thing buddy"
<knightwise> Good morning everyone
<knightwise> how are you ding today ?
<danfish> hello hello
<danfish> stunning weather - time to get the home automation project back on track :)
<MartijnVdS> danfish: hmm.. inside.. solder smoke
<MichealH> Hmm...
<MichealH> W: Failed to fetch http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/multiverse/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Cannot initiate the connection to gb.archive.ubuntu.com:80 (194.169.254.10). - connect (101: Network is unreachable)
<MichealH> My connection is fine, how can I not get stuff from the gb archive?
<MartijnVdS> MichealH: maybe their connection isn't fine :)
<AlanBell> can you get it in a browser MichealH
<AlanBell> any messing with proxies or apt-proxy stuff?
<danfish> MartijnVdS: thankfully no - that's all done. Now for the exciting/fustrating part - putting it all together 'in the field'
<MichealH> AlanBell: Hmm?
<MichealH> I haven't touched my sources.list or anything, but this happens
<MartijnVdS> MichealH: what happens if you try again?
<MichealH> http://pastebin.com/j9yCJszU
<MichealH> I need to afk
<MichealH> So See Ya I guess
<MichealH> :p
<knightwise> morning everyone
<AlanBell> MichealH: try "wget http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/multiverse/binary-i386/Packages.gz"
<danfish> I haven't used virtualbox for a year or so, but it's changed a lot from what I remember (for the better)
<danfish> networking used to be a bit tricky
<dwatkins> Yeah, virtualbox is pretty good for general use, although it doesn't have graphics drivers I could play games with quite yet.
<kirior> hi all anyone got a second top help me with some simple startup scripts??
<danfish> heh - unfortunately my gaming time is rather restricted these days due to the sproggles :)
<danfish> kirior: ask away
<kirior> so i would like to make my terminal to open up on my desktop and login as su every time i boot up. how do i do that
<danfish> by su, do you mean root/sudo -i etc?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<kirior> yes root, i got a password set so i don't have to write sudo every time a command require it
<kirior> btw im n00b :)
<danfish> kirior: np :)
<danfish> if you look in System \ Preferences\ Sessions
<danfish> and click on 'add'
<danfish> in the name bit put what you want
<kirior> sessions or startup applications ? i cannot find sessions :|
<danfish> ah - startup applications
<danfish> it changed, not sure when
<danfish> which terminal prog do you use?
<kirior> gnome terminal
<kirior> if that is what you mean
<danfish> yep
<kirior> ok added that, now how do i make it log in as root? as soon as it will startup?
<danfish> the command should be 'gnome-terminal -e 'sudo -i'
<kirior> do i need ' between -e sudo -i?
<kirior> no i dont need that :)
<kirior> on VM when i done the shared folder there was an option for auto mounting which is ok but if i would like to do it from script how would that look like?
<kirior> anyone can help me with virtual machine shared folder setup??
<kirior> any1?
<popey> kirior: i suspect most people are outside in the sun :)
<popey> or asleep
<brobostigon> or pub lunching?
<kirior> hmm could be, U got minute or just about to go out?
<popey> I'm afraid I dont know about your problem
<brobostigon> me neither, sorry.
<kirior> ok no worries :) at least someone replied :)
<iulian> popey: Where do you live?
<kirior> i'll try ubuntuforums
<popey> iulian: UK
<iulian> popey: Yea, I know but where exactly.
<popey> Farnborough, Hampshire
<popey> You're in London?
<iulian> Yes.
<popey> lovely day :)
<iulian> Indeed, hence the question. :)
<popey> bug
<brobostigon> ?
<popey> bug 768907
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 768907 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Theme broken but gsd not crashed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/768907
<MichealH> AlanBell: michealh@serv:~$ wget http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/multiverse/binary-i386/Packages.gz
<MichealH> --2011-04-22 13:23:10--  http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/multiverse/binary-i386/Packages.gz
<MichealH> Resolving gb.archive.ubuntu.com... 2a01:450:10:1::10, 194.169.254.10
<MichealH> Connecting to gb.archive.ubuntu.com|2a01:450:10:1::10|:80... failed: Network is unreachable.
<MichealH> Connecting to gb.archive.ubuntu.com|194.169.254.10|:80... failed: Network is unreachable.
<brobostigon> !lucid
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid Lynx) was the twelfth release of Ubuntu. Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/10.04/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1004
<MichealH> brobostigon: I just cant install anything
<brobostigon> MichealH: so you can ping the repo fine?
<brobostigon> MichealH: and also manually with your webbrowser looking atthe repo.
<MichealH> Yeah, on my PC I can
<MichealH> apt works fine
<MichealH> but on my server, nope :/
<brobostigon> MichealH: have your checked its dns setup?
<AlanBell> dns is fine
<AlanBell> he got an IP address
<popey> indeed
<brobostigon> true, sorry.
<popey> MichealH: what does 'mtr gb.archive.ubuntu.com' return?
<popey> from the server
<MichealH> It does not seem to send packets
<popey> ping 194.169.254.10
<popey> from the server
<popey> i suspect your routing is screwy
<MichealH> connect: Network is unreachable
<popey> are you ssh'ed to your server from your pc?
<MartijnVdS> and "ip route" ?
<MichealH> I have edited my /etc/network/interfaces.. if that helps
<MichealH> popey: Yeah
<popey> MichealH: that probably screwed it
<popey> MichealH: pastebin your /etc/network/interfaces
<popey> I suspect you have no default gateway specified
<MichealH> Oh, I see a typo in my netmasl
<MichealH> *netmask
<MichealH> brb
<MichealH> :P
<MichealH> For those intrested in the typo: http://pastebin.com/CLVgeL70
<daubers> Afternoon
<popey> that'd do it
<popey> lo daubers
 * daubers returns from sailing on a boat for a week
<MartijnVdS> daubers: wb!
<MichealH> popey: I know it was supposed to be 255.255.255.0 :P
<MichealH> wb, daubers
<popey> anyone got any suggestions about bug 768907
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 768907 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Theme broken but gsd not crashed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/768907
<popey> this isthe final bug which is stopping me doing any screencasting
<MichealH> I got it working
<MichealH> God, I feel like a idiot now :P
 * daubers waits for natty to become up to date
<popey> gaahhahahahahaha
<popey> bug 768958
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 768958 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout wrong on MBP 7,1 "Macintosh International"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/768958
<daubers> Ooooh, could have a shower
<dwatkins> popey: bah, how annoying
<czajkowski> Aloha folks
<Pendulum> hiya czajkowski
<daubers> o/
<daubers> Shower then tea and cake I think
<dwatkins> mmm, cake
<dwatkins> I should play more Portal 2 this evening so I can justify having cake.
<dwatkins> I trust everyone is well this fine but slightly grey afternoon.
<popey> super bright here
 * Pendulum just remembered she has cake in the fridge
<dwatkins> I'm north of the wall (Hadrian's, that is), so I guess we get all the bad weather ;)
<Pendulum> vanilla chiffon with passion fruit buttercream frosting :D
<dwatkins> Yay for cake!
<dwatkins> Sounds yummy, Pendulum.
<Pendulum> it is!
<Pendulum> I will have some later :)
<Pendulum> although I might also go out and buy some sort of cake involving chocolate
<dwatkins> Such restraint.
<Pendulum> because there is not enough chocolate in my house
<dwatkins> I think chocolate is a must this weekend.
<Pendulum> and Easter will probably all be pies :(
<dwatkins> I made a point of buying lots of chocolate today so we have plenty of choice.
<Pendulum> I'm on my own other than dinner on Easter so am mostly not bothering
<Pendulum> usually I buy chocolate the day after Easter instead
<Pendulum> (it's like buying chocolate on Feb 15th)
<dwatkins> cunning plan
<Neoti> hi all . i placed some files in ubuntu one last night from my phone and there not synced its been 14 hours now and it still just says syncronising... theres 230MB of photos, now i also placed half these in drop box and there all synced and stuff but ubuntu one has not synced any files... any help ?
<Neoti> hi all . i placed some files in ubuntu one last night from my phone and there not synced its been 14 hours now and it still just says syncronising... theres 230MB of photos, now i also placed half these in drop box and there all synced and stuff but ubuntu one has not synced any files... any help ?
<directhex> Neoti, "u1sdtool -s" will report u1's status
<directhex> you can reboot it with "u1sdtool -q; u1sdtool --start"
<Neoti> State: QUEUE_MANAGER
<Neoti>     connection: With User With Network
<Neoti>     description: processing queues
<Neoti>     is_connected: True
<Neoti>     is_error: False
<Neoti>     is_online: True
<Neoti>     queues: WORKING_ON_BOTH
<MartijnVdS> Neoti: that means it's syncing
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin | Neoti, also
<lubotu3> Neoti, also: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<Neoti> but its been this way for 14 + Hours now i only want to sync 230MB ... dropbox did it in less than 1 hour ... thats what i cant under stand ?
<MartijnVdS> Neoti: what do u1sdtool --waiting say?
<shauno> don't supose it's aws fallout?
<MartijnVdS> could be
<Neoti> it lists all files i want to sync
<Neoti> is there currently a problem with ubuntu one ? can anyone else place a simple photo in ubuntu one and see if it uploads etc ...
<Neoti> i need this folder to sync so i can switch off the computer and take my laptop out with me once synced etc ...
<MartijnVdS> !ubuntuone
<lubotu3> Ubuntu One is a service where you can back up, store, sync and share your data with other Ubuntu One users - For more see https://one.ubuntu.com/ support and help available at #ubuntuone
<MartijnVdS> Neoti: have you tried that channel?
<Neoti> i did do a search for a ubuntu one channel before trying here plus google... but i shall try in this channel now ... thanks ...
<MartijnVdS> good luck
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Michael Wood] Media explorer - http://www.michaelwood.me.uk/wordpress/2011/04/22/media-explorer/
<scoundrel50a> Is there an app for the Tomboy notes for Amdroid phones?
<scoundrel50a> Also can you connect to Ubuntu One using your android phone?
<DJones> scoundrel50a: I seem to remember there was omething called tomtroid for tomboy notes on android
<DJones> https://launchpad.net/tomdroid
<DJones> Yep, its there https://market.android.com/details?id=org.tomdroid&feature=search_result
<scoundrel50a> Oh, that looks interesting, any body tried it? I will give it a go. I just found the Ubuntu One site, and it has an app for Android, so will have a look at that too. Thank you
<venmx> hi, i want to be able to ssh into my ubuntu laptop without having to login and with the lid closed, is this possible?
<directhex> venmx, you need to prevent it from sleeping when you close the lid
<directhex> systerm, preferences, power management
<venmx> i think i did that, but if i dont login it doesnt work
<venmx> is there a way to do this in a config file?
<directhex> hm... you use wifi?
<venmx> no, its wired in, eth0
<venmx> not that bug, i got it in /etc/network/... its ok in that department anyway
<venmx> i wanted to be able to use this lappy closed all the time
<venmx> sry my bad.... default for all users ;)
<Seeker`> Bah, why does my sound suddenly go quieter for a second, then really loud, then back to normal
<ali1234> wow... telling people the wrong time and date for a meeting, then acting surprised when they don't show up... real classy
<daubers> right! Applied for Finance with OU, filled in a v62 as VW Newbury failed to file some paperwork, bit further on code and hungry now
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Ubuntu Natty Release Party in Kitchener-Waterloo on Saturday, 30 April 2011 - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/ubuntu-natty-release-party-kitchener-waterloo-saturday-30-april-2011
<suprengr> \o/  happy birthday to me, happy birthday to me, happy birthay dear suprengr, happy birthday to me.
 * DJones says happy birthday to suprengr, but points out that singing has just caused torrential rain, hailstones, thunder & lightening 
 * suprengr thinks better hum it next year... no more singing!   -   & cheers DJones 
<penguin42> suprengr: Hey happy birthday
<suprengr> thanks & cheers to you penguin42
<matti> suprengr: :-)
<DJones> suprengr: At least it saved me watering the plants I've still got to put in the garden
<suprengr> thanks & cheers to you as well matti
<suprengr> DJones: plants, soil & animals need water atm... this is not seasonal... begging for mercy all round
<DJones> Heh
<Azelphur> that microsd card company doesn't seem to be replying to my email lol
<Azelphur> so basically I'm stuffed, amazon won't do anything, they have my money and my card \o/
<Azelphur> oh well :(
<popey> Azelphur: small claims court?
<Azelphur> dunno if it's worth it for Â£30
<gord> leave a nasty review
<gord> that'll show em
<Azelphur> gord can't because I already left feedback xD
<Azelphur> they screwed me over on warranty
<marsilainen> redirect all your junk mail to them
<Azelphur> sounds fun
<popey> evening all
<popey> btw
<gord> making rollercoasters is much more fun now with powered rails :) feels quite realistic
<gord> no loops though :(
<hamitron> popey: need more gold and redstone
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> if you got any
<popey> :)
<gord> note to self, make sure xchat channel column is wide enough to tell the difference between #ubuntu-uk and #ubuntu-uk-minecraft
<Azelphur> gord: but that's no fun
<Azelphur> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=648158 win :D
<lubotu3> Mozilla bug 648158 in Server Operations: Desktop Issues "Mozilla office is on fire" [Normal,Resolved: invalid]
 * daubers throws together a quick django db
<hamitron> ty
<hamitron> rail to castle now works fully
<hamitron> :D
<shauno> ugh.  silly standby thing on the cable box.  pops up and tells me I haven't interacted with it lately, so it's gonna go sleep now.
<shauno> a 2 minute race to find the remote :/
<gord> really?
<gord> thats awful
<jacobw> interact with me plz :o kthnxbye
<shauno> heh.  that's exactly what it does
<shauno> if you don't touch the remote at all for 3 hours, it gives you a 2 minute warning that it's going to sleep
<DJones> shauno: What happens if you're watching some long depressing 4 hour film, does it still want to switch off
<shauno> DJones: if you don't touch the remote at all, yes
<bigcalm> shauno: VM?
<gord> surely there must be a setting for that
<DJones> Sounds rather stupid
<shauno> there is.  1 hour, 2 hours, or 3 hours
<shauno> bigcalm: not sure what you mean vm ?
<bigcalm> VirginMedia
<shauno> oh, no.  upc/ntl
<shauno> (.ie .. I'm aware ntl there are virgin now.  they're not here :)
<shauno> or was that telewest.  hard to keep track from a distance
<Azelphur> yay, my internets up for 5 minutes :D
 * Azelphur downloads everything like crazy
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> I'm all for things being clever about their power consumption.  but that's not clever.  that's guessing.
<hamitron> clever would be 3 hours or after the current program... whichever comes later
<shauno> if they wanna be clever, they should 'spot' the "film4 has gone to sleep" screen, and knock the box (and the telly) off if it's left on for x minutes
<hamitron> parents tv goes off if left and no program is set in the scedule
<hamitron> which is good, but it is annoying having to click OK on everything you want to watch
<shauno> I just don't want the TV to talk back.  I've got a laptop for that.
<shauno> if it has to ask, it's probably got it wrong
<shauno> I get the impression that I'm just being punished for being too lazy to mute the adverts
<hamitron> haha
 * DJones considers giving up, I've just been asked the question, What do you call people from Tokyo? Tokians?.......Erm.. Do you mean Japanese....Oh yeah :)
<bigcalm> What do you call people from London?
<jacobw> i once heard a girl taking a level geography ask whether japan was an island..
<bigcalm> 'lost', if they are up here
<jacobw> bigcalm: many things not for this channel :o
<bigcalm> Nope, it's more than 1 island
<bigcalm> Heh
<jacobw> pedant
<bigcalm> :P
<ali1234> 4 isn;t it?
<ali1234> ok, 6852
<ali1234> i was close
<shauno> DJones: edokko  (or tokyoite)  :)
<DJones> :)
<shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjectivals_and_demonyms_for_cities
<Azelphur> Hmm, I really want to do drupal 7 multi site :p
<Azelphur> but I can't really understand it
<Azelphur> does anyone know how it actually works beyond "multi site"? I don't really understand xD
 * popey tickles bigcalm 
<ali1234> nobody can understand drupal except the authors
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha, I do pretty good with drupal :D
<ali1234> and they would rather sell their books than write good documentation
<Azelphur> :o
<ali1234> hey does drupal 7 support images yet?
<ali1234> or do i still need to use a manky plugin?
<Azelphur> seems reasonably good image wise here http://fasttrack-khadgar.com/ :p
<Azelphur> (Joined a wow guild, took the opportunity to play with d7 xD)
<popey> i see no images
<popey> inline
<ali1234> me neither
<Azelphur> http://fasttrack-khadgar.com/forums/topic/post-your-picture-thread
<Azelphur> nope, no inline images
 * Azelphur runs
<ali1234> that's some kind of forum thing...
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's the drupal forum.
<ali1234> it has a forum now?
<ali1234> or is it a plugin?
<Azelphur> It always has done.
<Azelphur> the forum itself is core
<ali1234> the version on my website does not have a forum
<Azelphur> but I've got some plugins loaded to spruce it up a bit.
<Azelphur> ali1234: it's not loaded by default but it does ship with it
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-23
 * bigcalm looks in
<bigcalm> popey: still awake?
 * Azelphur looks
<ali1234> i see "sony online entertainment" on http://ec2disabled.com/
<ali1234> is it possible the PSN outage is related?
<ali1234> seems unlikely they'd host it on amazon but you never know
<Azelphur> ali1234: the PSN outage is anonymous isn't it? o.O
<ali1234> no they made a statement saying "for once it wasn't us"
<jacobw> heh
<Azelphur> oh, I heard it was
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> I'm loving it, the more PSN is down the more attention gets brought to the geohot case
<Azelphur> and that Linux support was removed from playstation :p
<ali1234> but geohot is over and done with
<Azelphur> I don't really call "Your not allowed to re-enable features that you paid for" a win
<Azelphur> That was a forfeit at best
<ali1234> the case was not won or lost
<Azelphur> no it was settled, and the settlement terms are that geohot isn't allowed to do any sony jailbreaking
<ali1234> meh
<hamitron> so sony kinda won ;)
<Azelphur> ^ exactly
<hamitron> tbh, sony have won whilst they can do what they want
<ali1234> what about that other guy?
<Azelphur> I know Anonymous are still hitting them, the sit in at sony stores went ahead but it wasn't very successful
<Azelphur> I hope they come up with something more effective.
<hamitron> sit in?
<Azelphur> hamitron: they basically protested outside sony stores
<ali1234> sony stores are alwats empty anyway
<hamitron> that is stupid
<ali1234> they were probably glad of the company
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> for that matter the cross over between anonymous and spotty electronics store salesman oiks is probably quite high too
<hamitron> attempting to protest like that when such a small number, means it is hard work and very time consuming for those attempting it
<ali1234> hey the settlement was leaked
<ali1234> i wonder if this is real
<hamitron> until sony back down and publically announce they have re-enabled the feature, doesn't affect me
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> kinda doubt they will.... but can hope
<ali1234> doesn't affect me either, neither does the iphone jailbreak
<ali1234> because i'll never buy this stuff
<hamitron> I was going to buy a ps3
<ali1234> save your money
<hamitron> but removing the "other os" feature directed me back into PC gaming, and I got a copy of Windows 7
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> kinda glad, cuz now I've got bored of games again
<hamitron> and got a better comp to do stuff
<ali1234> right i'm going to upgrade to natty
<ali1234> and make a list of everything i don't like about it
<hamitron> gl
<directhex> there are other sony cases still going
<directhex> e.g. graf_chokolo
<directhex> or is it choloko
<ali1234> oh yeah that's the guy i was trying to think of
<ali1234> graf "you'll have to kill me to stop me" chokolo :)
<ali1234> will be more interested to see how that one turns out
<ali1234> usb startup disk creator took an hour and a half
<ali1234> it only took 10 minutes to download the iso
<ali1234> usb 3-3.1.2: not running at top speed; connect to a high speed hub
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> but... it is a high speed hub
<ali1234> i hope the new kernel actually fixes some of this stuff
<ali1234> ok here goes
<ali1234> well here i am on the livecd
<ali1234> got classic desktop
<KINGOFSWORDS>  hi i get 'grub loading.error no such partition grub rescue>' even hou ive wiped drive
<ali1234> what did you expect to happen?
<KINGOFSWORDS> erm dunno
<KINGOFSWORDS> but theres no windwos or linux on there, isnt grub a linux thing
<ali1234> not really no
<ali1234> it is installed in the mbr not in a partition
<ali1234> if you want to get rid of it write 0s to the raw device
<KINGOFSWORDS> so it should say this regardless of linuix being installed or not
<ali1234> well i suppose you could say that
<KINGOFSWORDS> ok thx
<HazRPG> Baaaaah! I hate it when they always refer to hackers incorrectly in the media... idiots... anyways apparently PSN is down, has been down, for the past 3 days... and apparently hackers are to blame :/ http://psx-scene.com/forums/f6/psn-still-off-worldwide-day-3-hackers-being-blamed-sony-85343/
<ali1234> that website is really, really, obnoxious
<ali1234> oh wait, it's because i haven't reinstalled adblock
<ali1234> is that what the internet looks like these days?
<HazRPG> ali1234: tis sadly :/
<HazRPG> anyways, time for some sleep... night all \o
<ali1234> i'm really amazed by how slow unity is
<ali1234> switching foxus to a different window takes 3 seconds
<ali1234> the apps themselves don't run slow
<ali1234> well, except for banshee
<Myrtti> I've even donated to adblock for chromium
<Myrtti> can't live without one
<MartijnVdS> </run>
<popey> mng
<MartijnVdS> popey: wasn't support for mng dropped? :P
<MartijnVdS> popey: (good morning to you too)_
<popey> ali1234: yeah, I had to fiddle with compiz settings to make alt-tab more bareable
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o daubers
<KINGOFSWORDS>  hello...i dont have the wifi applet in the top task bar...anyone know how to get it back?
<MartijnVdS> KINGOFSWORDS: do you have the "messages" (envelope) icon?
<daubers> bah, someone needs to make a gmail lens
<MartijnVdS> lens?
<MartijnVdS> Someone needs to make it possible to move the left bar to the right
<daubers> Also, we should have a code "open house" day
<MartijnVdS> I'm not touching the Unity code.. it's crashy enough as it is ;)
 * daubers often wonders how many useful little tools people have hidden away
<AlanBell> daubers: we should
<daubers> AlanBell: Be quite cool to do at Oggcamp
<AlanBell> or an evening of IRC+mumble
<daubers> That too
<daubers> We could mix it up with Jono's IRC+Slides thing too
<daubers> lernid or whatever it was
<AlanBell> yup
 * daubers hopes the post office is open this morning
 * AlanBell sees MooDoo making a career limiting tweet :)
<nigelb> AlanBell: career limiting tweet? :p
<nigelb> haha, I see it :p
<AlanBell> hello piepopey
<popey> AlanBell: http://popey.com/graphs/ubuntu-uk-current.png
<AlanBell> ah, that again
 * daubers goes off to do the gardening in the sun
<popey> hmm, piespy is setup to make 1920x1080 images, why is it making 1600x900 images?
<popey> hmm, stupid browser perhaps
<nigelb> oh yay
<nigelb> I'm in the diagram!
<nigelb> hello popey btw
<popey> :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<nigelb> hello MooDoo
<nigelb> 3-day weekend is full of win, except for the bit where I'm working :\
<AlanBell> what is a nice way of printing out an empty calendar?
<AlanBell> nvm, google calendar with all the calendars turned off is good
<directhex> AlanBell, `cal`
<dwatkins> I like that google calendar now shows the date on the tab
<popey> it doesnt here
<popey> oh, the favicon, so it does
<dutchie> hah, never noticed that before
<dwatkins> It's very new, only got implemented here in the last week or so.
<dwatkins> http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2011/04/5-years-of-google-calendar-and-new.html
<MartijnVdS> I had seen the favicon
<MartijnVdS> I hadn't noticed its updating
<gord> yaay portal 2 arrived
<gord> but i can't put it on my pc because the hackers took down the playstation network :(
<marxjohnson> I hope CrossOver can play it soon :(
<imexil> popey: Just listening to S4E4 and the "news" in the not about Ubuntu section about Linus' rage is quite out of date isn't it. I mean he wrote it on the 30th Nov 2010 ;)
<brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
<Pendulum> hiya
<brobostigon> heya Pendulum
<Pendulum> brobostigon: how's you?
<brobostigon> Pendulum: not bad, to hot, nd tired, and you?
<Pendulum> yeah, I heard this year the head wave was preceeding my arrival in the UK (usually I bring heat waves with me).
<Pendulum> I'm not bad, though. Trying to figure out if I can drag a mate out for dinner or something later because I want nice food and I don't really go to nice restaurants on my own
<brobostigon> you will manage to do it, i think, :)
<Pendulum> maybe
<gordonjcp> Pendulum: raining up here
 * brobostigon scp's gordonjcp some sun.
<Pendulum> I'm hoping that pointing out 'meat' will help (his gf is a vegetarian and they are on low budget so can't buy foods they aren't both going to eat)
<Pendulum> gordonjcp: well I don't know for sure if I'm making it to Scotland yet :P
<gordonjcp> I swear everything in the garden has grown about half an inch since 8am
 * brobostigon puts ch4 on, big bang theory.
<Pendulum> it's raining here too, although not hard yet
<Pendulum> but it's early
<Pendulum> supposed to get worse
<Pendulum> at least it's not snow
<brobostigon> very true,
<MooDoo> raining?
<Pendulum> MooDoo: don't get too excited unless you're in Scotland or the US :P
<MooDoo> nah nottingham, then again it's supposed to go downhill here over the next few days
<Pendulum> MooDoo: I arrive in the UK on 1 May so expect heat after that :P
<MooDoo> :) bring it with you :)
<gordonjcp> Pendulum: are you going to make it this far north?
<Pendulum> gordonjcp: trying to, nothing definite.
<gordonjcp> cool
<Pendulum> I'm not sure I want to. Last time, I spent 2 weeks in a hotel in Scotland with no aircon and 30 degree weather (or close to). Was miserable until the last afternoon when it rained and I nearly crawled onto the window ledge just so I could sit in it (which is quite a feat if you know that the window was about the height of my head)
<gordonjcp> sounds like a pretty horrible hotel
<Pendulum> well, that last afternoon the roof also leaked
<Pendulum> not a hotel I'm going to back to
<Pendulum> gordonjcp: if I'm up, I'm probably not seeing many geeks (if any), so we'll see :-/
<Azelphur> Hmm, my internet randomly came back up again \o/
<Azelphur> I'm only syncing at 4mbit instead of the 11mbit I was at before, though :(
<directhex> sounds like a buggered line
<Azelphur> yea I been saying that since the start :D
<matti> ;]
<Azelphur> On day one it kept on having lots of short disconnects, then it went down completely for like 24h, then it came back up, short disconnects, down again, modem wouldn't even try to dial for a long time (no ADSL Light on the router), then after a really long time it tried to dial and failed, then it started doing pretty much flapping (continually reconnecting) and now it's up again but at 4mbit \o/
<Azelphur> directhex: the fun part is that I've had line issues before, the BT engineer comes along with an ADSL modem and says "ADSL works!" and walks away
<Azelphur> but I have a feeling the problem is somehow ADSL2+ related
<directhex> Azelphur, BT won't accept ADSL faults as their problem, IME. when the phone stops working, it's different
<Azelphur> interesting, who's problem is an ADSL fault?
<Azelphur> The engineers arn't great in this area, a little while ago I spent like 2 weeks with a crossed line because some guy dropped metal shavings onto a circuit board in the exchange
<Azelphur> Which obviously couldn't have done the board I'm connected to any good :p
<brobostigon> question, for seesmic on android to update does it require background data to be enabled?
<popey> imexil: there was some more recent rage too :)
<Azelphur> Speaking of android, anyone wanna buy a used G1? :p, It's had invisibleshield on it since day one so it's in good condition :)
<Pendulum> Azelphur: how much?
 * Pendulum is looking for a phone she can use for PAYG while in the UK
<Pendulum> (and by the time I was told to look at the tmobile pulse mini it was off the tmobile site :( )
<Azelphur> Pendulum: like Â£70?
<Azelphur> Pendulum: it's rooted and sim unlocked :p
<Pendulum> okay, outside my budget (which is okay, I'm probably going to end up with something supercheap and not a smartphone)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> how much you looking to spend?
<Pendulum> under Â£50
<Azelphur> yea, not gonna get anything very smart for under Â£50 xD
<Pendulum> I think Three actually has an android phone for Â£50, but I have no idea how Three is as a network
<Azelphur> really? surely that's on contract
<Azelphur> cheapest pay as you go android phone I've seen is Â£100
<Pendulum> http://threestore.three.co.uk/payg/default.aspx?zte=1
<popey> Pendulum: you can borrow my htc hero while you're here if tony has finished with it
<Pendulum> says it runs Eclair
<Azelphur> blimey
<gord> three are okay, not as much coverage as the other big companies, but okay
<Pendulum> popey: no way to get it from you/back to you, but I appreciate the offer (tbh, I'm in the UK enough that having my own phone I can use when over would be useful. I had one, but the charger went MIA and no one has old Nokia chargers anymore)
<gord> if you are not going into the wilderness, your fine with three
<Azelphur> Pendulum: I think three has the best mobile internet coverage
<popey> Pendulum: when do you arrive?
<Pendulum> a week Sunday :)
<popey> I'm happy to ship it to where you're staying
<popey> but if you get an alternative, no worries :)
<Pendulum> Azelphur: that's good to know since I am also probably going to be in the market for mobile internet dongles for my laptop :)
<Azelphur> yea, I used to be with three and I'd recommend em they are pretty cool, I know my brother is too
 * AlanBell has spare simless Orange dongle
<AlanBell> however wifi tethering is more convenient generally
<Azelphur> yea, I just usb/wireless tether with my desire Z :D
<Azelphur> that ZTE racer from three doesn't look half bad at all
<Azelphur> It's like a cheaper version of the ZTE Blade which is a very nice budget phone too
<Azelphur> 600mhz arm 11 with adreno 200, 256MB of RAM
<Pendulum> yeah, I'm going to run it by my 'we do phone apps people' since I'll probably also end up using it for Android devel stuff
<Pendulum> (they were the ones to tell me about the pulse mini, just a little too late to be helpful ;-) )
 * brobostigon hugs his htc dream.
<Pendulum> bah, my get up and go wants me to get up and go, but I don't have anywhere to go :(
<gord> my get up and go is telling me to clean the damn house, alas my couch is telling me to stay here because its more comfy
<Azelphur> I'm really impressed by that ZTE Racer, I see videos on youtube it seems to handle some basic gaming and has a pretty beefy CPU
<Azelphur> Decent disposable android phones come another step closer :P
<brobostigon> which android version has it got, and is it manually upgradable?
<Azelphur> brobostigon: 2.1 upgradable to 2.2
<brobostigon> Azelphur: 2.2, isnew enough, 2.1, is pretty old in many ways,
<Azelphur> oh whoops wrong review, just has 2.1
<Azelphur> but maybe you can get a custom rom for it
<brobostigon> Azelphur: 2.1 is pretty old really. and isnt very nice in a few ways.
<Azelphur> :p
<Azelphur> brobostigon: for Â£50 though it's pretty decent
<dragonkeeper_> anyone ever tried the program CDemu ??
<brobostigon> Azelphur: yes, very true.
<brobostigon> Azelphur: i suspect i am still using the most common android version, 2.2.*
<Azelphur> I'm on CM nightlies, so 2.3 :D
<brobostigon> Azelphur: there isnt a cm version anymore for htc dream, lastversion was 2.2.1 nightlie.
<Azelphur> indeed :(
<Azelphur> hense why my brother wants to sell his HTC Dream xD
<brobostigon> agreed, :(
<danfish> afternoon - 'tis a triffle warm today http://family.fishms.org/index.html
<brobostigon> i am happy though with my dream and 2.2.1, it is mostly perfect.
<Azelphur> http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2011/04/21/sony_should_pay_100_to_man_for_otheros_removal_consumer_board_says
<Azelphur> Yay :D
<Myrtti> ho-hum
<Seeker`> lo
<DragonKeeper> Phoronix interviews a game developer who works with Linux Game Publishing to create native GNU-Linux games from existing titles on other operating system platforms.
<Azelphur> nice
<directhex> except LGP release 1 or 2 games every 5 years, and the games are already old before they start
<DragonKeeper> well atlest its good to know  companyâs are taking linux into consideration when creating games
<DragonKeeper> http://www.lgdb.org/list_games
<shauno> most of them aren't taking it into consideration at all.  it doesn't come up until they're trying to milk the last drips out of a dead product a few years later
<Seeker`> mmmm...milk
 * DragonKeeper wants a 360 emulator
<Seeker`> I hear xbox  360s are good for those
<Seeker`> :P
<DragonKeeper> but then wouldnt really be an emulation would it
<Seeker`> why do you want an emulator?
<DragonKeeper> i just like everything to run on pc  and will allow me to test games out with out having to mod my xbox drive again
<Seeker`> if you want to "test" games, subscribe to lovefilm
<DragonKeeper> =S  why pay  when i can just download burn and play + keep forever
<Seeker`> because thats just a little immoral?
<exobuzz> its not as immoral as game reselling games and making money again and again for the same game
<exobuzz> if your going to start judging
<exobuzz> you're
<Seeker`> exobuzz: don't buy second hand games then?
<exobuzz> i don't
<DragonKeeper> well i buy games  like call of duty  .  but no point me  buying a game ill never play
<DragonKeeper> so i test 1st
<exobuzz> anyway. tis offtopic here right
<Seeker`> exobuzz: it is different from buying second hand games, because the original purchaser no longer has a copy to run
<Seeker`> downloading the disk means that you are creating an extra copy for free
<exobuzz> Seeker`, that's not the argument im making. but anyway. not here.
<Seeker`> not here?
<hamitron> there are costs involved in reselling something.....
<hamitron> ;/
<Seeker`> DragonKeeper: There are various things you could do, including reading reviews and renting before you result to "stealing"
<Seeker`> *resort
<hamitron> imo, no harm in "borrowing" a game for a few hours
<Seeker`> -14:07:52- :DragonKeeper : =S  why pay  when i can just download burn and play + keep forever
<Seeker`> "forever" tends not to be "a few hours"
<hamitron> that is just wrong
<hamitron> and someone steals my work, I'd be rather nasty to them for it
<DragonKeeper> well if im going to pay for a game ill never use again   that seems point less to me
<DragonKeeper> if i like it  i buy it new
<hamitron> you only use a hamburger you buy once
<hamitron> ;p
<hamitron> it has still satisfyed it
<hamitron> you
<Seeker`> DragonKeeper: Thats a risk you take.
<DragonKeeper> :S  im not going to buy it  then buy it again   of course ill only buy once lol
<hamitron> imo, they should integrate malware into software, then a proper key keeps the malware deactivated
<hamitron> :D
<Seeker`> DragonKeeper: You don't have to buy it. You could rent it.
<DragonKeeper> someone will just make a new exe or dll to bypass it
<Seeker`> Or just buy it and if you don't like it, ebay it
<DragonKeeper> rent is just buying it for a few days    where as i might only play it for an hr and never want to  use it again
<exobuzz> most people who download / copy games (not i don't use the word stealing), are not the customers anyway. my point is just that, if someone downloads something to try and doesnt like it, and deletes it, have they dont more damage to the original creator than a store that sells a game multiple times (but the creator gets paid once), to people who are actually looking to "buy" the game. plus they resell sometimes at full price.
<exobuzz> s/dont/done
<hamitron> dragonkeeper: it is people like you that mean the honest players who give the publishers ammunition for all this DRM hassle we get
<hamitron> bleh, too much to drink :/
<DragonKeeper> if they want my money then make a decent game ,   if i download game play it  enjoy the game then i go out and buy a proper disk.
<hamitron> play for how long?
<DragonKeeper> few hours
<hamitron> that is acceptable
<hamitron> imo
<shauno> I'm not sure why the time makes a difference
<exobuzz> i really can't stand either side of these arguments. from those who never buy stuff who don't get it, to those who seem to feel the need to force their morality onto everyone else. blah blah.
<DragonKeeper> isnt like i have TBs of games and  make disks to sell to friends lol
<shauno> you pay a couple of quid to rent a movie for a night or two.  does that make it legit to download it instead because you're only actually going to spend 2 hours watching it, not 2 nights?
<DragonKeeper> 2 nights watching a film    thats insanely  long   i dont want to watch that film    but thanks any way
<hamitron> I have often downloaded a game just to test if it runs on my PC :/
<exobuzz> i just bought / donated to the last humble indie bundle and i cant even play em ;-)
<hamitron> exobuzz: that would annoy me
<exobuzz> i knew before i bought
<exobuzz> :
<exobuzz> :)
<exobuzz> but since i had the other two. wanted to have all three heh
<DragonKeeper> exactly   basicly wasted your money for something you wont ever play o.O
<exobuzz> yeh although it was my money to waste thanks. im not on your side of the argument, nor the other ;-)
<hamitron> I think offering Demo's is best, then no reason to have to download a test copy
<DragonKeeper> although most demos dont give full features    so isnt really a decent experience
<hamitron> and I often find I buy a game when I can try a demo :)
<DragonKeeper> if they did full features and only a mission or 2 then will be fine
<hamitron> dragonkeeper: ballance has to be right ofc
<hamitron> :)
<exobuzz> hamitron, i reckon more games will move towards micro payment stuff in the future. buy level 1. buy level 2 etc. they can probably make more money that way. they being the publishers. the poor coders never make enough of course
<hamitron> exobuzz: yes :(
<hamitron> addon packs every 6 months \o/
<exobuzz> it's good to see in recent years the rise again of the indie developer
<exobuzz> http://www.pcworld.com/article/223431/riaa_thinks_limewire_owes_75_trillion_in_damages.html shows how detached the "copyright" holders are from reality too :)
<hamitron> I bought 3 of the 4 addon packs for RACE 07, but starting to get sick of it :/
<DragonKeeper> LOL who uses limewire anymore o.O
<exobuzz> the riaa use it ;-)
<DragonKeeper> i thought that went out the window years ago
<hamitron> limewire have cost me Â£100s
<hamitron> personally
<hamitron> :(
<DragonKeeper> o.O
<exobuzz> hamitron, shh. make it Â£2 trillion
<exobuzz> :)
<hamitron> I've downloaded stuff, liked it, and bought it \o.
<hamitron> but I am a sucker for buying stuff and collecting :)
<exobuzz> my problem with buying stuff, is ive run out of room . and i cant possible throw out my 300+ amiga games to make space for more dvds
<Seeker`> exobuzz: I'm not sure how much the RIAA works for content owners, or whether they are just lining their own pockets
<Seeker`> buy a bigger house then?
<exobuzz> Seeker`, i think sadly it's the latter
<hamitron> exobuzz: a huge problem :)
<exobuzz> Seeker`, haha.. sure. can you loan me a deposit ?
<DragonKeeper> why not use HDDs instead of disks
<Azelphur> exobuzz: old news re limewire is old xD
<Seeker`> saving up my own atm
<exobuzz> for the dvds? i normally dump em. but i like touchy feely boxes
<hamitron> all my games are in boxes, but I've imaged them onto hdd for easy access
<Azelphur> I don't use CDs/DVDs at all any more
<DragonKeeper> limewire  site was posted  Mar 26, 2011 5:44 AM        who is even awake at that time :O
<hamitron> well, most of the old ones
<exobuzz> same like i could have pdfs of my 1980s coding books. but i prefer to go to bed with a book
<Azelphur> I actually sold my DVD drive a few months ago, my PC doesn't have one.
<Azelphur> All my media is on hdds 100% now.
<hamitron> exobuzz: real books ftw
<DragonKeeper> Azelphur  how many HDDs ?
<exobuzz> Azelphur, how do you dump new media? ;-)
<Seeker`> I need more hard drives to get all my media on to them
<Azelphur> exobuzz: I don't, I'm all like yarr :p
<Seeker`> 3.5TB isn't enough :(
<Azelphur> dragonkeeper I have 3 HDDs totalling 5TB atm
<Azelphur> I just buy more when I need them
<Azelphur> that's my major content store :p
<exobuzz> i got 12tb of hds, of which 6 is usable .. im such a backup whore
<Seeker`> I need to build a fileserver/mythtv backend with space for 5 drives
<Seeker`> + an OS drive
<DragonKeeper> wow     i have wiped  most of the crap  i dont want    im at 2.5tb    with only 1tb filled up  and i havnt finished   ripping my cds      i have about 5 racks left
<exobuzz> my fileserver http://www.exotica.org.uk/mediawiki/files/c/ca/Aerocool_server.jpg
<DragonKeeper> nice
<Azelphur> Seeker`: that's exactly what I have
<exobuzz> Azelphur, do you watch media on the joggler ?
<exobuzz> Azelphur, or still just a "clock" ;-)
<Azelphur> exobuzz: my jogglers are idle atm xD
<exobuzz> (fancy clock mind)
<exobuzz> oh noes
<Azelphur> http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/3832397/1/MythTV2?h=2832c8 here's my MythTV/file server
<exobuzz> Azelphur, do you use xbmc at all, or just the mythtv frontend /backend ?
<Azelphur> I just use mythtv
<DragonKeeper> i saw xbmc make a O/S
<exobuzz> DragonKeeper, an os ?
<exobuzz> you mean the live disks? just ubuntu based. there is openelec too, another linux live distribution
<Seeker`> exobuzz: what case is that?
<exobuzz> my media player is still an xbox1..
<DragonKeeper> was looking for alternate linux distros  and just notices a xbmc edition     didnt go  anyfurther into detail as wasnt what i wanted
<exobuzz> Seeker`, "aerocool" case. 10 5.25" bays only
<exobuzz> http://www.legitreviews.com/article/241/1/
<jacobw> i've never bothered to rip my cd's, i just play them on my micro hifi system when i want to listen to them, i find the ideal of listening to music on the go with a portable player doesn't match up with the reality of pausing the music to speak to bus drivers, wondering whether you're missing anything that's going on etc
<directhex> i had a server like that
<directhex> in a coolermaster stacker
<Nafallo> ehrm. except the coolermaster stacker is 12* 5.25", isn't it?
<exobuzz> heh. 12x. nice
<exobuzz> plenty of space
<directhex> Nafallo, don't remember, i got rid
<Nafallo> well, quick calculations says I remember right :-)
<directhex> it was an older version of the stacker, pretty sure it wasn't 12 bays
<directhex> but anyway, i had 8 disks for a while
<directhex> on an lsi megaraid
<Nafallo> 11 it was.
<exobuzz> i just use the old software raid, which is pretty decent these days
<Nafallo> http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2007/03/cm_stacker_mod_by_snakez_and_ediejo/page1-2.jpg
<directhex> anyway, decided it wasn't worth the money to run it
<Nafallo> ah! no! 12!
<directhex> after i moved house & had no tv reception for mythtv
<Nafallo> you can remove the top part (with usb ports and buttons and stuff)
<exobuzz> nice looking case
<directhex> you can indeed, if you don#t mind having no power button anymore
<Nafallo> mine is in Sweden, cause I couldn't afford taking it on the plane with the extra weight costing a fortune :-P
<directhex> it's not a lightweight computer.
<Nafallo> you can always fit a power button elsewhere. that's no worries :-)
<DragonKeeper> i want one of these http://www.xclio.com/products/case-xclio-777.htm#details
<Nafallo> the worst part was that I got a couple of Raptors for it to be system drives just before I moved country :-P
<MartijnVdS> (lesson: don't move country) :P
<directhex> my pc lives in a http://www.planetpr.pl/data/gallery/full_bd4dfda23685f54645987953dcb0fbc6.jpeg
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: pff. my DL140 beats the crap out of the hardware in the stacker :-)
<directhex> wife wants her new pc to live inside a http://www.uk-tec.co.uk/images/products/cslianpcv354r.jpg
<MartijnVdS> directhex: looks a bit like mine: http://www.gigabyte.com/fileupload/product/9/2482/1821.jpg (black one)
<DragonKeeper> my 6 core lives inside http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1303&ID=1423            NEVER get one lol  i  hate it  o.O
<directhex> they still make xasers? :/
<directhex> the only case with go-faster stripes
<DragonKeeper> lol
<exobuzz> 6 cores?
<exobuzz> spoilt!
<DragonKeeper> yeah  each at 3.2ghz
<Nafallo> 6 cores isn't much today actually :-)
<Azelphur> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_D0qySDj2e5M/TTzVU7Z0zHI/AAAAAAAAAmQ/JrAVDfprV18/s1600/Antec_1200_by_mazodude.jpg
<Azelphur> my case is biggest :D
<directhex> a 6-core cpu is Â£130
<Azelphur> (Yes, that is 12 drive bays xD)
<exobuzz> my desktop is in a "antec three hundred" case. very basic and only Â£50 but well built
<directhex> at 3.2ghz, it's Â£155
<directhex> not expensive
<exobuzz> directhex, low end i7 ?
<directhex> exobuzz, phenom 2
<exobuzz> aah amd
<exobuzz> ok
<exobuzz> im out of touch with the amd stuff
<hamitron> directhex: how hot?
<DragonKeeper> my whole system cost me  about Â£1200   i bought all parts when they 1st got released     ... wish i waited now :(
<Seeker`> Hmm, are there any large cases that don't cost the earth?
<directhex> hamitron, 125W
<hamitron> geez :/
<directhex> Seeker`, you can have good, or cheap.
<Seeker`> define "good"?
<DragonKeeper> i like them acrylic cases  you can get a decent sized one for Â£70
<directhex> Seeker`, airflow that actually flows air, edges that won't slice your hands up, etc
<hamitron> most ITX boards I looked at only took upto 95W
<exobuzz> Seeker`, the one i just mentioned i like
<exobuzz> Seeker`, http://www.ebuyer.com/product/143854?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products
<exobuzz> very basic, but well constructed, and minimalist look.. which suits me
<directhex> a "big" case can be as low as Â£24
<DragonKeeper> dam  this cases does some major damage to your wallet  http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1416&ID=1897
<directhex> DragonKeeper, the level 10 is a work of art. a bad case, but a work of art
<directhex> DragonKeeper, there's a cheap "consumer" version which sucks
<directhex> DragonKeeper, try a silverstone temjin 11 - Â£475 for a pretty "normal" case
<Nafallo> hmmmm
<Nafallo> Fast Furious 5... anyone seen it yet?
<DragonKeeper> yeah  directhex  is a nice thing to have if you can afford it    but till i win lottery  isnt worth having lol
 * hamitron wants this http://www.ebuyer.com/product/205560
<directhex> hamitron, you need to be extra careful with small cases.
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I can't really find a good one tbh
<directhex> hamitron, silverstone are probably your best bet
<hamitron> they cost a fair amount
<hamitron> ;)
<DragonKeeper> i like the Xclio with the  massive fan at front  that will give ya some cooling :)
<hamitron> a case is only a frame to holds things to me
<directhex> hamitron, yes, they do cost
<directhex> hamitron, if you want something that looks like a pc world reject, and can't cool a cpu, get a cheap case
<DragonKeeper> lol
<hamitron> my current cheap case is fine!
<Nafallo> just take a 1U hp server and stuff a PCI-E gfx card in it? :-P
<directhex> with a cheap power supply that draws hundreds of wasted watts?
<DragonKeeper> pc world reject   that has to be seriously  destroyed to be rejected    i went in there once and a  on display pc had a big dent  :P
<directhex> Nafallo, i've worked with rackmount. i know how noisy 40mm fans are.
<hamitron> oh, it has a decent enough PSU
<Nafallo> and then get LOOOONG cables or you wont hear sounds because of the noise ;-)
<hamitron> ITX case with normal ATX PSU would be ideal
<hamitron> maybe a DTX case
<DragonKeeper> i have a antec quatrro 850w
<directhex> DTX is a nothing format. ignore it
<hamitron> my ITX mobo would fit in DTX....
<Tommeh> I think that's by design.
<Nafallo> hmm. no one seen the movie. fine!
 * Nafallo goes for a shower
<matti> Nafallo: No no no.
<matti> Nafallo: Be trendy.
<hamitron> DTX would let me use my graphics card still
<hamitron> :)
<matti> Nafallo: "Nafallo checks in shower with Foursquare" :d
<hamitron> but in long term, ITX is fine and will just use onboard graphics
<directhex> ._.
<matti> Geez I can't stand 4sq.
<matti> ;p
<matti> piepop.
<matti> ;]
<MartijnVdS> wasn't it down last week, with the amazon outage?
<DragonKeeper> ok  time clean out laptop .  afk
<matti> MartijnVdS: It was.
<KrimZon> how do I get unity to work in virtualbox?
<KrimZon> someone said to install some package or other, ages ago, iirc
<BigRedS> KrimZon: virtualbox-ose-guest-x11
<BigRedS> I think
<KrimZon> I think that's what I installed
<BigRedS> You also need virtualbox 4
<KrimZon> ahh, that'll be it
 * suprengr suggests grabbing an 2nd hand Dell Dimension E520 if you want a good case... big but... wow... if you want room & coolabilty :)
<BigRedS> suprengr: hah, yeah, I used to get lost in those :)
 * suprengr shouts help! ... still trapped inside mine... can't find the way out ;)
<daubers> evening
<suprengr> o/ daubers
 * daubers waits patiently for his beer to cool
<ali1234> popey: i don't find alt-tab particularly slow
<dutchie> lo daubers
<ali1234> it's slow when i click in one window, then click in another window
<daubers> o/ dutchie
<KrimZon> upgraded to virtualbox 4...
<DragonKeeper> back ,  :)  laptop isnt burning up anymore
<ali1234> damn, this stupid dock is really annoying
<ali1234> i always *left* click on the terminal icon by mistake and instead of getting a new terminal it gives me an old one that's logged into another machine
<ali1234> but i don't notice and i run stuff on the wrong machine
<DragonKeeper> ali1234   ubuntu 11.04 i take it ?
<KrimZon> woot, it works
<ali1234> yes
<DragonKeeper> lol
<ali1234> also compiz is now so slow that's there is no obvious animation at all
<ali1234> even windows don't appear to "scroll"
<DragonKeeper> i used 11.04 for about 10 mins  didnt like it so  degraded   .
<ali1234> i am going to try to use it for at least a week
<ali1234> so get ready for lots of complaining
<DragonKeeper> apparently u dont have to use unity  dock if u dont want to and use classic style
<ali1234> i know
<ali1234> that won't be supported in 11.10 though
<DragonKeeper> o.O
<DragonKeeper> so 11.10   unity dock only ?
<brobostigon> question, i just installed openarena, however i have to run it from /usr/games otherwise if i justtype in, openarena, it comes up with "The command could not be located because '/usr/games' is not included in the PATH environment variable." and i not sure how to resolvethis. advice please.
<Azelphur> haha, if I can't strip unity out that'll probably be the day that I have to switch distros :p
<ali1234> you can still install gnome if you want, it just won't be supported
<ali1234> so it will be like all the other stuff in universe: incredibly buggy
<BigRedS> ali1234: never know, it might be fixed by then :0
<Azelphur> \o/
<BigRedS> Er, tabfail
<BigRedS> Azelphur: ^
<Azelphur> BigRedS: haha, I'm not holding my breath
<ali1234> i reported two bugs on unity so far
<ali1234> and i have to report another two
<DragonKeeper> yup Azelphur exactly my thought
<Azelphur> somehow I doubt multi x screen support is going into unity, ever :P
<DragonKeeper> i dnt like unity  looks to mac / chromium like
<Azelphur> I'd be ok with it if it worked :P
<DragonKeeper> lol
<ali1234> where do they keep compiz upstream bugs?
<DragonKeeper> bug.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz     maybe  i dunno
<ali1234> i just made an interesting discovery
<ali1234> it only goes really slow when i try to use ambiance/radiance themes
<ali1234> if i switch to a standard theme everything is the same as it was on maverick
<ali1234> i bet it's those lolhuge drop shadows that does it
<matti> Raaainnn...
<matti> Walk in thee rainn..
<matti> ;d
<matti> Rain vs Smog -- 1:0
<matti> ;d
<brobostigon> new dr hwho, in ten minutes.
<matti> OMG.
<matti> Now.
<matti> USA one..
 * matti twittchess..
<MartijnVdS> weird quiz show now
 * brobostigon is watchingtime bandits onfilm4 towaste time.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: only 3 minutes
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, :)
<Seeker`>  Dr Who soon!!!!!!
<brobostigon> less than a minute,
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: Weird is the wrong word. "Crap" is far more appropriate.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: switch now :)
<brobostigon> and no spoilers, i am sure there are peoplewho cant watch live,
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: ok, I thought I might be missing some British culture here :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: dont, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: how about go-faster stripes? :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: umm, done, :)
<shauno> argh!  my cable box says I'm not allowed to watch telly :(((((
<brobostigon> shauno: :(
<brobostigon> now now now.
<MartijnVdS> BBC1HD \o/
<Seeker`> ITS STARTED!!
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: how do you get BBC1HD?
<shauno> because it's recording two shows at once, it's using both tuners and can't spare me one :(
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: freesat, yes
<dragonkeeper_> have you ever had an extension built on your house in Britain by a builder called bob?         that would be so unlikely as bob isnt a polish name
<Seeker`> dragonkeeper_: wow, racism too? :P
<dragonkeeper_> :) lol
<MartijnVdS> !coc
<lubotu3> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is a community etiquette document to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere, and can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ .  For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct .
<Myrtti> wow http://featherandfan.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/fo-extermiknit-extermiknit/
<daubers> right, just need to write a login page, and then this django site can go live \o/
<oimon> hey guys..just received the latest Narnia film on CD, and it comes with an extra disc "digital copy" which doesn't work on my ubuntu box - anyone else had this problem?
<oimon> seems to be DRM encumbered
<AlanBell> take it back
<BigRedS> oimon: I'd take it back, personally
<BigRedS> if its DRM'd to uselessness, it might as well be a blank disk
<oimon> agreed, but we bougt the film for the DVD disc
<oimon> but the idea of a second disk saves you ripping it
<oimon> i don't think we paid extra for it.
<oimon> anyone else seen this though?
<oimon> apparently supports idevices, windows, playstation
<dragonkeeper_> what  is the disk for ?
<AlanBell> a windows user would return it if it didn't work on windows
<BigRedS> AlanBell: but he wants to keep the othe rdisk :)
<AlanBell> return it and ask for another copy
<BigRedS> oimon: who is the publisher?
<AlanBell> open that and then return that one too
<AlanBell> repeat as many times as you can
<oimon> BigRedS: fox
<BigRedS> AlanBell: I'd be surprised if there wasn't a System Requirements list on hte box
<oimon> BigRedS: it is on the box in illegible text
<oimon> and i have 20/20 eyesight
<oimon> under wine, i can run a menu that offers me the chance to watch in windows media player :S
<oimon> i should just rip the dvd
<BigRedS> Ah, but I bet that's enough
<oimon> BigRedS: not if WMP does DRM stuffs
<BigRedS> Nah, I meant the illegible text is probably enough
<oimon> http://www.foxdigitalcopy.com/uk/
<oimon> they'll be getting an email from me, which they will forard to /dev/null
<oimon> film starting, better give undivided attention :) evening chaps
<DragonKeeper> Kill the Irishman 2011  what a great film title :')
<Myrtti> eh
<shauno> :/
<daubers> Ooooh
<daubers> thunder
<MartijnVdS> daubers: time to get out the camera for some lightning shots? :)
<xenic> hi
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Tried that a couple of times and never got it right :(
<MartijnVdS> daubers: do you have a remote trigger and bulb setting?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: that got me http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/3865931054/
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I have a bulb setting, but no remote trigger :(
<daubers> Or I don't have one, the camera can do it
<MartijnVdS> daubers: my remote trigger has a "lock" setting, so I can do >30s shots
<MartijnVdS> daubers: but I set it to do 10s shots, in continuous mode
<MartijnVdS> leave it pointing at thunderstorm for a few minutes, pick out pictures with beautiful lightning :)
<daubers> :)
<daubers> Might have a go
<daubers> Waiting for hugin to do it's thing to see how well a pano I took last week came out first
<MartijnVdS> I haven't done panos in a while
 * daubers loves panos
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I've been visiting the local "archaeological theme park" lately
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Cool :)
<ali1234> i just watched asa raskin's video about interaction seduction on google tech talks
<ali1234> i think whoever designed unity should be forced to watch it over and over again until they make something actually good
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuELwq2ThJE&feature=player_detailpage#t=864s
<ali1234> that really hits home with me
<ali1234> because the exact same thing is true of the old gnome panel
<ali1234> someone posted that screenshot where they had so many windows that you couldn't read any of the items on the window list
<ali1234> but it's OK because the minimize effect shows you approximately where it is
<ali1234> but with unity, you get one icon for all the windows, you click it, and then it shows all the windows in random positions on the screen, and you have to manually examine each one to find the one you want
<ali1234> and then you have to minimize all the others after, because it unminimizes everything for some reason
<ali1234> so while it looks cool it's actually far harder to use if you have a large number of windows
<ali1234> and i already find myself just opening a new window instead of looking for the old one, because it's so difficult and annoying
<ali1234> so then there is a positive feedback loop
<popey> ali1234: i completely agree
<ali1234> popey: with which thing?
 * daubers ponders hot chocolate
<ali1234> popey: were you able to use gtk-recordmydesktop under natty?
<ali1234> because i can't get it to work
<popey> nope
<ali1234> it just freezes on 0% when encoding the video
<popey> well, yes, but the stupid drop shadow messes it up
<ali1234> ah the stupid drop shadow
<popey> mine encodes okay
<popey> yes
<ali1234> i have turned that off
<ali1234> it didn't fix the slowness though
<popey> howd you turn it off?
<ali1234> hey is there like, a unity lens for launchpad bugs?
<ali1234> cos that would be really handy
<popey> btw I agreed with your points about clicking to find windows
<ali1234> to turn it off you go into /usr/share/themes/Ambiance/metacity-1
<ali1234> and edit the metacity-1-*.xml
<ali1234> and find the line with "shadow"
<ali1234> and set it to 0
<popey> great, thanks
<ali1234> set radius to 0
<popey> does that kill all shadows?
<ali1234> no only the massive ones
<ali1234> you still get the small ones that every theme has
<popey> the panel one is the one I am most bothered by
<ali1234> oh it doesn't appear to do anything about that one
<popey> which is oddly done as a png overlaid
<ali1234> it's just the huge 45 pixel ones around normal windows
<ali1234> i only turned it off because i thought it caused but 769605
<ali1234> bug 769605
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 769605 in light-themes (Ubuntu) "light-themes make the system slow and laggy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769605
 * popey subscribes
<ali1234> but it turns out it wasn't that
<ali1234> check the youtube video :)
<popey> wow
 * popey goes to reproduce that
<popey> how do you force glxgears to do vblank?
<popey> er, vsync, ykwim
<popey> confirmed
<ali1234> turn vsync on/off with nvidia settings
<popey> ah, ok
<ali1234> when it's off, glxgears reports 6000 fps but only manages to update the screen about about 1fps
<ali1234> even when the window is tiny
<ali1234> but that's a different bug
<ali1234> the fact that light-themes runs into the same problem just demonstrates how resource intensive it is compared to the other themes
<ali1234> all of this is probably related to crappy nvidia driver as well
<popey> yeah, its got worse recently
<ali1234> for example, the firefox/launchpad bug
<ali1234> it's all the same root cause
<ali1234> certain operations seem to be very slow on nvidia
<ali1234> intel graphics has no problem rendering launchpad despite being slower hardware
<ali1234> i would test with nouveau but it doesn't work on my card (gt240)
<ali1234> i get no acceleration at all
<gord> its some 2d cairo stuff, goes really slow in nvidia
<ali1234> and even then it can't render things right
<gord> nvidia only really care about 3d
<ali1234> yeah
<gord> sooo hopefully, 3d cairo backends solve everything
<gord> eta 2030
<ali1234> *i* only care about 3d, that's why i bought a nvidia card
<hamitron> nvidia care? :-o
<ali1234> so i don't appreciate it much when the UI prevents me from running 3d apps because it's so resource intensive
<ali1234> and especially when the fancy accelerated UI is actually worse to use even when it's working at full speed
<ali1234> but of course it isn't entirely down to compiz/unity as simply changing the theme makes it a lot better
<ali1234> under natty's version of pidgin everyone's nick is a different colour
<ali1234> anybody else noticed that?
<gord> didn't it do that before? seems like a standard feature
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i just had this conversation in #pidgin
<matti> ;]
<ali1234> they were all different colours before
<ali1234> now they are all *different* different colours
<gord> ah
<matti> Is anyone selling his netbook? ;]
<ali1234> gord: so for example you were dark blur in maverick, now you are orange
<ali1234> *blue
<gord> maybe the seed changed
<gord> i prefer orange anyway :)
<ali1234> some people are still the same colour
<ali1234> like lubotu3
<matti> Nobody? :<
<ali1234> matti: look on ebay
<ali1234> you can get netbooks for very cheap
<matti> Hah ;]
<ali1234> like Â£60
<matti> RLY?
<ali1234> yes
<matti> ZOMG.
<matti> ;]
<ali1234> like acer aspire one
<ali1234> it will be "sold as seen" though
<ali1234> i bought one that was listed as broken, when i got it it worked fine
<popey> broken because it had Leeenux on it? :)
<ali1234> i was going to use it for parts but i gave it to my mother instead, with ubuntu unr on it
<matti> Hehe
<ali1234> popey: no it was a windows xp one
<ali1234> fun fact:
<ali1234> the linux aao has a different keyboard with a different logo on the "windows keys"
<ali1234> but the keyboard is actually totally different
<popey> heh
<ali1234> not just different printing
<ali1234> and the windows one is *much* nicer to type on
<popey> also fun fact: the on screen keyboard in ubuntu has a windows key labelled "Win"
<ali1234> the linux one has spongy keys, the windows one has a nice click to it
<matti> ali1234: THere are different types of the same model.
<ali1234> so yeah... the cost of the OS isn;t the only reason the linux version is cheaper :(
<ali1234> matti: there are multiple types of AAO yes
<gord> huh, that should be changed to meta for consistency i guess
<gord> although meta, sucks, as a name
<matti> ali1234: Windows ones were a little bit more up spec-wise. IIRC.
<popey> gord: AlanBell has an ffe filed for changing it to an ubuntu logo
<ali1234> matti: they have 1GB ram soldered on the MB instead of 512MB
<gord> i don't like that either =\
<ali1234> and this one had the SSD instead of harddrive
<gord> would prefer the windows key over that, at least people know what that is
<ali1234> but the board itself is the same, and they keyboard is identical in size
<matti> OMG
<ali1234> the case is slightly different to fit the larger harddrive
<matti> Nothing gets on my nerves like losing rubber ear pags for my in-ear ones.
<matti> ;/
<ali1234> but i could have just swapped over the keyboards
<matti> And it is always the right one.
<matti> Bah! Universe! I will get you for this one, again!!!
<matti> ;]
<Laney> good evening
<matti> ali1234: Shame that I am not an Apple person.
<matti> ali1234: 10" MBA is really nice
<matti> ali1234: But > 1000 GBP easily.
<matti> ali1234: I am not crazy yte ;]
<matti> yet*
 * popey hugs his mbp
<popey> despite the ubuntu keyboard layout on it being mentally broken
<Laney> i just use the standard uk layout
<Laney> Â¬!"Â£$%^&*()_+
<gord> i got me a dinovo edge the other day, nicest thing i have ever typed on ever
<matti> popey: MBP? How is the battery life on Linux? Still holding?
<popey> not as good as OSX
<popey> bed time!
<Laney> I get 4+ hours
<matti> Night night
<Laney> which is perfectly good enuf
<matti> ;]
<Laney> never used osx on it for long enough to find out how long a full charge is. :-)
<Laney> ignorance is bliss
<matti> I have no choice at work.
<matti> Huge Apple house as my boss like them.
<matti> I took me a while to get used to OS X ...
<matti> Bad Linux habits die hard ;p
<matti> Hehe
<matti> And I keep hitting CMD + Q all the time -- as CTRL is in the same spot on my notebook ;]
<Laney> can't install ubuntu on it?
<matti> Not allowed
<ali1234> ok i figured out why recordmydesktop fails
<ali1234> it doesn't like recording more than 1920x1080
<ali1234> and my desktop is 3200x1200
<hamitron> just greedy ;)
<ali1234> global menu doesn't work properly with it
<ali1234> so i can't make a video demonstrating exactly why it sucks
<ali1234> well i could but i'd have to use my mobile phone to record it
<ali1234> and so i'd have to build a rig to hold it and blah blah blah
<AlanBell> or use the record a selected area feature
<ali1234> AlanBell: i did, but global menu doesn't redraw correctly
<ali1234> hang on i'll upload the video
<ali1234> hmm does global menu work in classic mode through the panel widget?
<ali1234> i could do that i guess
<AlanBell> not sure
<AlanBell> I am not a big fan of the global menu
<AlanBell> did you say the shadow is 45px?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> the shadow around the focussed window that is
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/out-1.ogv
<AlanBell> it is apparently 40px on OS X
<AlanBell> so it is totally not true that Ubuntu is just copying OS X, we are going 5 better \o/
<ali1234> see if you can figure out what's going on in the video
<ali1234> it's kind of hard when the menu doesn't redraw properly
<ali1234> it doesn't do that "in real life"
<AlanBell> well that sucks
<ali1234> popey: btw, for screen recording, i highly recommend motu a/v products. unfortunately they don't work on linux.
<gord> nothing makes you feel like a toddler than falling up stairs :(
<AlanBell> ali1234: so something is stealing focus when you go to the global menu sometimes
<ali1234> AlanBell: not exactly
<ali1234> AlanBell: what happens is i "miss" the menu bar
<ali1234> and focus goes to the desktop
<ali1234> this happens about 50% of the time when i try to use global menu
<ali1234> also after copying i have to move the mouse all the way across the screen to select the other window, then all the way back to the menu bar
<ali1234> and then i "miss" it again
<ali1234> and then i have to do it all again
<ali1234> without global menu this operation would require 4 clicks
<ali1234> and moving the mouse across the screen 1 time only, towards a target that i can see
<AlanBell> or select text, move, middle click
<AlanBell> but that isn't really the point, I know
<ali1234> with global menu it takes 5 clicks and i have to move across the screen 3 times
<ali1234> that's assuming i don't miss
<gord> counting things is never a good metric i find
<ali1234> if i miss i have to start the whole tiresome thing over
<AlanBell> how do I start a second gedit without using the command line
<ali1234> middle click
<ali1234> i only ever use middle click on the launch now
<ali1234> because when i left click on it, one of two annoying things happens:
<ali1234> 1. a bunch of windows i don't want to see appears and clutter up the screen
<AlanBell> oh, the whole thing is freaking out and won't start new applications
<ali1234> 2. i get taken to another desktop where i don't want to be
<ali1234> it seems to be random which one actually happens
<ali1234> now i hardly ever switch between windows, i just close them instead of minimizing them
<ali1234> it's easier than trying to use the window switcher
<ali1234> but i find i'm spending a lot longer waiting for firefox to load up
<AlanBell> I really can't start a second gedit
<ali1234> well it works for me
<gord> AlanBell, what happens? details
<ali1234> oh hang on
<ali1234> those other gedits are in the video i just recorded, which went full screen
<AlanBell> gord: it just brings the existing gedit to the front
<gord> AlanBell, with middle click?
<AlanBell> yup
<gord> is this some weird mouse that doesn't do middle click correctly or somthing?
<ali1234> sorry, maximized, not fullscreen
<ali1234> and it's really hard to tell because a maximized window has no title bar
 * AlanBell selects text and middle clicks and gets pasted stuff
<AlanBell> if I type some stuff in the window then middleclick gedit in the launcher it opens a new tab in gedit
<gord> ah, its a gedit thing
<ali1234> ah got it
<gord> has it self set to open new tabs instead of new instances
<ali1234> with gedit, middle click only works if there isn't already a gedit ovisible on the screen
<ali1234> if they are all minimized or on different workspaces it works
<AlanBell> hmm ok
<ali1234> if there's a gedit visible, middle click does nothing
<ali1234> totally not confusing at all
<AlanBell> well with two tabs open in gedit I can drag one out of the gedit window to separate it into two windows
<gord> you had me scared that we had screwed up "detecting a middle click" for a minute then AlanBell, please don't do that a week before release :)
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> middle click definitely works for "some" applications
<ali1234> some others have a right click context menu
<AlanBell> middle click does nothing if you have an empty document in gedit already, it creates an empty document if there is a populated document
<ali1234> it's all very inconsistent and annoying
<AlanBell> yeah, I want more in the right click menu
<gord> to play the blame game, its not unitys fault
<ali1234> seems like there's a large amount of special case code in there somewhere
<gord> all we do is execute a desktop file
<gord> AlanBell, you can add stuff yourself to the right click menus! its fun! (i wrote that code ;))
<ali1234> so where does the "open new window" right click menu option for firefox come from?
<ali1234> being able to add stuff myself sounds... interesting
<gord> look in the firefox .desktop file - we use desktop actions
<ali1234> like, can i add... a list of the open windows? so i can go directly to a minimized window without cluttering up all the display with all the other windows of that type?
<gord> you can basically add anything that you could put in a .desktop file normally
<gord> no, sorry, nothing dynamic like that unless you are willing to write something in the programs code base that talks to libunity to add dynamic quicklist items
<ali1234> well
<ali1234> why would it be necessary to add it to all programs?
<ali1234> why can't it be programmed into unity?
<gord> you could certainly write a patch to unity to do it
<ali1234> pretty much anything would be better than the expose thing
<gord> i wouldn't accept a patch that did that myself though, unless design got involved, just to keep the codebase clean
<ali1234> i'd make it d it on left click
<gord> design are very willing to change things, you should bring things up with them :) specially as UDS is coming
<ali1234> instead of making it do something random like go to another desktop or fill the screen with 100s of identical windows
<ali1234> i'd make it slide out a list of all the windows of that type, in the order they were opened
<AlanBell> hmm, so click on my gedit icon with two gedit windows and I get them both zoomed out, click the gedit icon again and nothing happens, they don't zoom back again
<AlanBell> like they did in 10.10
<ali1234> AlanBell: yeah
<ali1234> AlanBell: try right clicking
<ali1234> then you can go back
<AlanBell> and get a bonus menu
<gord> sigh really?
<ali1234> yeah, right click, then left click somewhere else
<gord> i did the launcher last cycle  t
<gord> but not this one
<AlanBell> I do like the two dots on the left of the launcher icon, better than the triangle in 10.10
<gord> need to write up a list of regressions
<ali1234> basically once you left click on unity there's no going back, your windows are messed up, and you want to switch to classic immediately, every time
<ali1234> but i will persevere
<ali1234> i think the problem here is that nobody except unity developers can actually tell the difference between regressions and bad design decisions :(
<AlanBell> little harsh perhaps, but I can think of examples
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-24
<AlanBell> like the grid thing where you have two windows side by side
<AlanBell> and a 45px shadow of the active one on the other one
<penguin42> it was interesting to read they had done a evaluation session with normal people a week or two ago, most of the things normal people had hit were things that people on +1 had been saying since the early alphas
<gord> +1 on getting rid of that, but there are only so many hours in the day
<AlanBell> is that a good thing or a bad thing? I can't tell
<gord> wait until the actual report of the user testing comes out penguin42
<gord> what everyone read was not the actual report... that will be presented at UDS
<penguin42> gord: Ah ok, some of the things said in it though were very much things had been saying for months
<ali1234> the "12 testers" email?
<penguin42> yeh
<ali1234> i hit almost every problem mentioned in that on a regular basis
<ali1234> even the "menu editor doesn't work" one
<ali1234> that was the first thing i tried
<AlanBell> the funky new scrollbars are interesting
<gord> i think a lot of the time people don't understand the workflow involved, its not a case of "complain, fix" in the same cycle, we engineer software in six months cycles, so thinks sometimes get deferred to the next cycle - just give it time if you are having problems
<ali1234> guess what... i don't like them
<AlanBell> I actually think they made a decent stab at those for a first attemp
<AlanBell> attempt
<ali1234> you can't tell if a window is scrolled to the bottom if it's not focussed because it's too pale
<ali1234> yeah they are not bad
<penguin42> gord: Some stuff was visible at least 2 months back, early enough to be changeable if it was really bad
<ali1234> changing to human theme actually fixes that issue
<AlanBell> better than I had expected them to be
<ali1234> yeah i agree
<ali1234> just need to be more visible in the default theme
<penguin42> AlanBell: I'm surprised that a change to something like that has appeared so late in the cycle
<AlanBell> a few focus issues and things like click and hold on the clicky scroll bit would be good
<ali1234> click and hold?
<penguin42> hmm just noticed my gnome terminal is still using the old scoll bars but pidgin is using the new ones - I wonder what determines it
<AlanBell> penguin42: it was sabdfled in, he gets to make one dramatic last minute change in every release
<gord> blacklist
<gord> not everything works perfectly
<AlanBell> ali1234: if you go over the scrollbar handle you can click repeatedly to move it up and down in steps
<AlanBell> can't click and hold
<ali1234> ah yeah
<gord> only thing that bugs me about them is when i maximise banshee, my scrollbar is now a few tiny tiny orange pixels that i can barely see on the right of my scrollbar
<ali1234> i never do that
<gord> right of my menu even
<ali1234> click and hold tends to make it scroll way to far
<penguin42> AlanBell: Click& hold just worked for me on the thing that appears (erm for want of a name the zipper)
<ali1234> what i *do* like to do, on very long scrollbars, is move the pointer to the approx location, then click click click util i get to that general area
<ali1234> but i can't do that any more
<AlanBell> you can!
<ali1234> how?
<AlanBell> drag the zipper to the approx location, then it will stay still and you can click on the top and bottom half of it
<ali1234> that's not the same
<ali1234> i'l make a video
<gord> yeah its not the same
<gord> you know where you want, so you put your pointer there, then click until the scrollbar jumps up to your location
<ali1234> right
<AlanBell> oh, I see what you mean
<ali1234> then when the bar arrives you can adjust it finely without moving the mouse much at all
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/scrollbar.ogv
<AlanBell> yeah, OK, I never got into that habit but I can see the value
<ali1234> i never got into the habit of click and hold :)
<ali1234> since it seems to queue up scrolls faster than it actually scrolls, then when you release it keeps on scrolling for ages
<ali1234> i hate that
<gord> me either, click and hold requires you to know where you are now (rare for me) then move to where you want to go, rather than just knowing where you want to go
<ali1234> right "knowing where you want to go" is the big issue with all of this
<ali1234> i know approximately where the window is on the window list in gnome panel, even if there's hundreds of windows, partly becuase of the minimize animation and partly because i just remember
<ali1234> but with unity i can't go directly to it, i have to go through the expose thing, which shows windows in a random place each time
<ali1234> so i can't even remember it
<ali1234> hmm another bug
<ali1234> uninstalling applications doesn't remove the icon from the dash
<ali1234> until you restart
<ali1234> that one reported?
<ali1234> wow i just hit another bug while trying to report that one
<gord> it might not be reported but its certainly known, just non trivial to fix
<ali1234> firefox won't accept focus
<ali1234> input goes to the previously focussed window
<gord> portal 2 should be renamed "hey lets make gord look stupid: the game"
<ali1234> although a cursor appears in firefox and not the previous window
<ali1234> aw now i lost the bug report URL because i had to close the window
<ali1234> hmm so in the UK there's only 3 working days until natty is supposed to launch, right?
<ali1234> cos of the bank holiday and the wedding?
<ali1234> so what percentage of unity developers are in the UK?
<gord> there are two of us
<gord> the kind of bugs you are talking about won't be fixed
<gord> only SRU's - which are rare
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> so what kind of bug would be fixed? crashes?
<gord> crashers that affect a large number of people
<gord> basically anything that would block release
<ali1234> so being unable to type in firefox won't be fixed?
<gord> i have no idea, focus issues are not unity bugs
<ali1234> i haven't run into any major crashes yet so that's good
<ali1234> no sound problems with pulseaudio either
<ali1234> i might actually be able to use it now
<ali1234> it's only been a day though, sometimes it takes a few days for that one to happen
<penguin42> ali1234: You can't type in ff?
<ali1234> penguin42: sometimes
<penguin42> ali1234: All of firefox or just flash?
<ali1234> all of firefox
<ali1234> actually it was a launchpad bug report page
<ali1234> the whole window refuses focus
<ali1234> although the text input box displays a flashing cursor
<ali1234> typing anything appears in the previously focussed window
<penguin42> odd
<ali1234> also the window border remains grey and the previous focussed window shows as focussed still
<ali1234> i'm going to have to make a folder on my webpage just for natty bugs, putting everything in "random" is filling it up too much
<penguin42> ali1234: Unity seems to do something where if an app isn't responding it gets greyed out and doesn't take focus - not sure how it classifies the not responding ness
<gord> compiz
<ali1234> no, not that type of grey
<ali1234> i mean just the window border
<ali1234> it's a lot easier to notice if you use human theme
<ali1234> what package should i report this against? http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/natty/indicator.png
<gord> unity, it'll get triaged
<ali1234> ok. you know the "drag to screen edge to maximize/half-maximize" thing? bugs with that should go to compiz?
<ali1234> seems to affect classic as well
<gord> YES
<gord> yes
<ali1234> bugs are coming in thick and fast on launchpad...
<hamitron> when is release day?
<ali1234> 28th?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> hey apparently my youtube account is now enabled for uploads of longer than 15 minutes
<ali1234> i might have mentioned this before actually
<ali1234> i just discovered something
<ali1234> i can actually use global menu if i pretend i'm using amiga workbench and hold the right mousebutton down to access it
<ali1234> i wonder if i can make a hack to prevent RMB from changing window focus
<ali1234> and also unhide the menu
<ali1234> then it would be almost exactly the same
<optimusP> Is ther any way to compress jpg image files and .mp3 files?
<MartijnVdS> they're already compressed
<MartijnVdS> (and "lossy" - some information was removed to make the file smaller)
<MartijnVdS> (if you do that twice, it'll look/sound very bad)
 * ball agrees
<ball> (fwiw)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: indeed!
<HazRPG> Just got myself the new humble bundle pack :)
<HazRPG> time for some game time me thinks :)
 * MartijnVdS is skipping this one
<HazRPG> heh why?
<MartijnVdS> I tend to not play the games
<HazRPG> none of them at all?
<HazRPG> or just games in general?
<MartijnVdS> I try them once.. then don't play them anymore
<MartijnVdS> most games
<MartijnVdS> Sometimes I re-play games.. but not often
<AlanBell> happy egg day everyone
<MartijnVdS> happy eggs to you too AlanBell :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: same to you :)
<HazRPG> and to all :)
<nigelb> Moo.
<HazRPG> bad guys in movies serious need to learn how to shoot xD
<nigelb> hah, which movie?
<HazRPG> Cop Out
<HazRPG> just saw it in the bargain bin in tescos last night
<jonsaint> hi all. anyone about
 * BigRedS is
<BigRedS> good morning!
<jonsaint> anyone know much about firefox? got a problem with it
<BigRedS> I know a bit about firefox, too
<BigRedS> You could just ask the question... :)
<jonsaint> what it is, when i click on firefox and the yahoo page opens, when i try to search for something, what happens is when i type the letters seem to delete themselves and i have to type it again. the only way i get round this is to open firefox, wait a few seconds, then type something. any ideas?
<AlanBell> that is yahoo writing bad javascript
<AlanBell> they are tring to do some kind of typeahead stuff I expect
<jonsaint> god knows but its only recently its been happening
<MooDoo> hello all
<BigRedS> jonsaint: try disabling javascript
 * BigRedS uses NoScript, but I do live in the '90s too
<daubers> Morning
<BigRedS> g'morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<jibadeeha> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> 10:31:29 [Freenode] -!- #*** Cannot join channel (+j) - throttle exceeded, try again later
<brobostigon> whatdoes that error mean?
<brobostigon> hi jibadeeha
<jibadeeha> brobostigon, dunno too many people in the channel?
<brobostigon> jibadeeha: weird, maybe.
<jibadeeha> brobostigon, which channel was it?
<brobostigon> jibadeeha: #wrongplanet
<jibadeeha> brobostigon, seems to let me in
<brobostigon> jibadeeha: let me try again.
<brobostigon> jibadeeha: i just tried again, the tthird time, and it llet me in.
<jibadeeha> must be less people in now
<brobostigon> someone told me, 20people now, including me.
<brobostigon> 120*
<MartijnVdS> maybe it's a number of people/minute joining?
<MartijnVdS> that they limit
<MartijnVdS> (to stop bots from overcrowding)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that makes sense,yes.
<scoundrel50a> Hi, where did the volume control icon go from the top bar, after an update the other day, it went. I cant find it anywhere.
<BigRedS> scoundrel50a: sometimes things fall off the panel
<BigRedS> you can add them again by right clicking on it and choosing "add to panel..."
<BigRedS> there's a volume control thingy in there
<scoundrel50a> I looked in there, its tnot there
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: it's part of the same thing as the network manager: the indicator
<scoundrel50a> I can see the Wireless indicator for the network manager, but the vol;ume control has gone, so how do I get it back?
<MartijnVdS> Did you get a dialog about "indicator-sound" crashing?
<MartijnVdS> try logging out and back in
<scoundrel50a> ok, will try
<scoundrel50a> I dont remember getting a sound, and a box certainly didnt come up reminding me that happened, brb
<scoundrel50a> ok, nothing showed that there was fault or error when I logged out and back again. One thing, the icons for opened programs, they appear next to the wireless indicator, I closed them all down, but still the volume control doesnt appear, can I make it that those icons appear somewhere else?
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: uhrm.. which version of Ubuntu are you using? Opened programs appear in the bottom bar.
<scoundrel50a> 10.10 and as far as I can remember they alwaysn appeared uop there
<scoundrel50a> how do I get them to appear in the bottom bar then
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: are you using a derivative, like Xubuntu or Kubuntu?
<scoundrel50a> no
<MartijnVdS> !panel
<MartijnVdS> !resetpanels
<lubotu3> To reset the GNOME panel to defaults, type this in a !terminal: Â« gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel Â»
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: ^ you could try  that (it'll reset the panels to the default)
<scoundrel50a> ok, will give that a go
<scoundrel50a> do I have to add the arrows at the beginning and end as well?
<MartijnVdS> No
<MartijnVdS> start with "gconftool", end with "gnome-panel"
<MartijnVdS> the && are needed
<scoundrel50a> ah, the volume button came back,
<scoundrel50a> brilliant, but the icons for open programs dissappeared,
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: bottom bar
<scoundrel50a> nope, they appear at the top again, just opened drop box, and it moved the wireless icon
<MartijnVdS> ah those aren't icons for open programs
<MartijnVdS> those are indicators
<MartijnVdS> List of open programs really is at  the bottom
<scoundrel50a> ah, sorry didnt know what they were called, can you move them, it looks like that might have been the problem before with the lost volume control, it muct have hidden it
<scoundrel50a> ah,just tried to move it, by right click move, to discover its in a sort of cluster, with the icon for drop box and the envelope for setting up a broadcast account.
<scoundrel50a> and when I move, the three move together
<MartijnVdS> yes, all the indicators move together :)
<scoundrel50a> so can I put the indicators on the bottom pannel?
<scoundrel50a> panel* sorry
<MartijnVdS> if you want to
<scoundrel50a> how do I do that?
<MartijnVdS> right-click, select "move"
<MartijnVdS> then move your mouse to the bottom
<scoundrel50a> ok, justb did it, left click, move and I took the curser to the bottom panel and they are down there now
<scoundrel50a> right click rsorr
<scoundrel50a> thank you, bad day today, got bad headache so having problems seeing the typos
<scoundrel50a> I now locked the, to panel, hopefully wont loose the volum control now
<scoundrel50a> um I use xchat, how do i get it to show check spelling as you type?
<MartijnVdS> no idea
 * daubers has reached the stage in aproject where he just wants to start using the blasted thing and not have to faff around with lots of html nonsense
<MartijnVdS> daubers: i.e. you've done "framework_tool create projectname"? :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Bit further than that :) The first type of data can now be added quite happily. Need to do the other 2 now
<scoundrel50a> well, thank you for getting my volume control back, huge help. :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: https://code.launchpad.net/~daubers/+junk/WarhammerDB but shhhhhh... it's not finished yet
<MartijnVdS> daubers: you're a warhammerer then? :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: As of January
<daubers> I've got Guardsmen coming out of my ears now, and needed some way to keep track of what I can field
<daubers> The aim is to be able to generate army lists with all the related special rules/weapons and stuff for each list as a quick reference
<daubers> If I can find somewhere that sells packs of blank playing cards on an a4 sheet, then that would be a perfect method of printing them
<MartijnVdS> can't you just use 180g paper?
<MartijnVdS> (or heavier, but my laser printer doesn't work with >180g)
<daubers> I could, but means lots of faff cutting them out :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.4office.be/images2/00569.jpg
<daubers> true
<daubers> Not got quite that far yet though
 * MartijnVdS goes outside to take pictures of.. outsidey..ness
<danfish> a hoy hoy
<brobostigon> good afternoon danfish
<danfish> o/ brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/
<daubers> o/ danfish
<danfish> I had great ambitions for the weekend in terms of projects, but the good weather had put me into a state of 'meh'
<danfish> but I did get the arduino's installed
<daubers> danfish: oh?
<danfish> daubers: nothing too exciting - a bunch of old PC fans connected to a 12v battery and solar panel to ventilate the greenhouse and a solenoid valve to turn on the watering
<daubers> swanky
<daubers> I've been designing very small things and very big things (1st for me, second for work)
<daubers> very small things are plastic buildings with lights that change colour based on some LDR's being blocked (arduino nano powered \o/
<daubers> very big thing is a 3U server chassis :-(
 * daubers wonders if B&Q has their wood cutting service open today
<danfish> sounds good cool - fancy doing something arduinoey at oggcamp?
<daubers> danfish: Could do
<daubers> danfish: Got a million and one projects noted down to do at some point with arduinos :)
<daubers> danfish: Also, I do have a half complete arduino project I started for someone else to do with flyballing
<danfish> flyballing?
<brobostigon> my task today, is converting my dads equations, into c++,for an arduino project.
<daubers> danfish: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyball
<daubers> Building some timing gates and a control system for them
<danfish> daubers: cool
<danfish> brobostigon: what's the project?
<brobostigon> danfish: car hydrolaulic/hydrostatic controls.
<danfish> wow, fairly 'mission critical' then
<brobostigon> danfish: yes, https://code.launchpad.net/~hydraulic-hybrid that is my current progress, fairly simple right now, i have alot to add.
<daubers> brobostigon: Going to give a talk on it at Oggcamp?
<brobostigon> daubers: i havent manged to get tickets, in truth.
<brobostigon> daubers: i could do.
<daubers> brobostigon: Might be worth popping popey and co and email to find out about ticketing things
<danfish> brobostigon: at least you've got the code up on t'internet - I am *so* behind on in that respect
<brobostigon> danfish: yes, i will do that,
<brobostigon> danfish: it was/is simply a way of version control, and allowance for people to view said code,
<brobostigon> daubers: you think it would be worth it?
<daubers> brobostigon: More than likely. I know quite a few code heads who are car bonkers too
<brobostigon> daubers: ah, interesting.
<danfish> I think all the "Alans" have had car problems recently :(
<daubers> This is why I reckon we should have a code "open house" thing
<brobostigon> daubers: interesting idea.
<daubers> There are all kinds of intersting projects going on that people don't publish
<brobostigon> daubers: i insist on publishing it, as iwant everything, to be as OSS as possible, hw and sw, from the start.
<daubers> danfish: Don't suppose you know of any good PCB printing houses
<daubers> brobostigon: Cool :)
<danfish> ooh - i've called my home automation project "openhome". A pythonical beast.
<danfish> daubers: sorry, no
<brobostigon> danfish: yes, :)
<brobostigon> danfish: :)
<daubers> hmmm... need about ÃÂ£70 worth of mdf :(
<danfish> multi-dimentional fabric?
<daubers> multi density fibreboard
<danfish> right, time to walk round to the inlaws for Easter Meal - laters!
<brobostigon> bye danfish o/
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> anyone know if you can use the onboard graphics of the h55 chipset, alongside a dedicated graphics card?
<hamitron> oh, found the answer
<MartijnVdS> "yes"?
<hamitron> you can't
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: my BIOS has an option for it
<hamitron> oh
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: (Asus P7H55-M PRO)
<hamitron> maybe I should look closer then
<hamitron> rather than listen to intel
<MartijnVdS> I'm not using a plug-in card atm (don't have any to try)
<MartijnVdS> let me double-check
<MartijnVdS> Allows you to select which graphics controller to use as the primary boot device.
<MartijnVdS> Configuration options: [iGPU] [PCI/iGPU] [PCI/PEG] [PEG/iGPU] [PEG/PCI]
<MartijnVdS> PEG/iGPU is what you'd want
<MartijnVdS> (PCI Express + GPU on i3/i5)
<hamitron> cool
<hamitron> half tempted to try it
<MartijnVdS> (this is my ASUS manual, other brands/types might have different options available)
<hamitron> I was forced to tidy up my workspace at home, so my manual is hidden away somewhere safe I can't find it
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> download the PDF :)
<MartijnVdS> brand/type can be found using dmidecode
<hamitron> I know the model
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> will see later, not a huge worry this second
<hamitron> I just scared myself though
<hamitron> I have 1 comp turned on, and it runs windows 7
<hamitron> and I am reasonably happy
<MartijnVdS> awwww
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> seems I need a restart for updates anyway, will check bios out while I do that
<hamitron> brb
<hamitron> there is an option to set it to enabled when no ext PEG or enable always
<hamitron> that that answers that
<hamitron> :)
<MartijnVdS> :)
<hamitron> now how is best to run ubuntu on the integrated, and windows on the PEG?
<hamitron> ;)
<MartijnVdS> kvm 8-)
<hamitron> windows has to have proper 3d support for games
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> a keyboard/video/mouse switch
<MartijnVdS> with only the video bit connected
<MartijnVdS> (two to your PC, one to your screen)
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> I intend to have more than 1 display
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> 1 PC, 2 displays and 2 video adapters
<hamitron> and 2 OS
<hamitron> vbox supports it
<hamitron> \o/
<hamitron> ah ffs, need another restart, brb
<hamitron> tbh, bit pointless
<hamitron> may as well just have multiple machines
<hamitron> then each has proper drivers, acceleration and its own memory
<matti> Heh
<matti> HSBC decided to send my new debit card to a _my_branch_.
<matti> Which is in Honiton in .Devon
 * matti gives up on humanity today ;)
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> matti: you're not there then?
<matti> MartijnVdS: No, not really ;]
<matti> MartijnVdS: I used to live there 5 years ago.
<matti> ;]
<MartijnVdS> matti: and you never told them you moved away? :)
<matti> MartijnVdS: Haha, oh come on ;p
<MartijnVdS> matti: well, depending on how much debt you had with them... :P
<matti> MartijnVdS: ;-p
<matti> MartijnVdS: They never let me know either about this ;]
<matti> MartijnVdS: And so I was waiting for new card to arrive in London... for little over two weeks ;p
<matti> MartijnVdS: But that's nothing ;] First Utility was billing me and my landlord for the same flat and same usage and there is only one smart meter :)
<matti> MartijnVdS: So I called them up, to resolve this... and they were trying to concinve me that it is impossible for the system to bill multiple unrelated people when single smart meter is in use ;p
<matti> MartijnVdS: And they refused to believe on the contrary ;p I had to fax bills to them ;p
<MartijnVdS> wow
<matti> MartijnVdS: O2 was billing me for two more months after I cancelled my broadband service ;p
<matti> MartijnVdS: I never had so much fun with service and utility provides in my entire life ;p
<MartijnVdS> I've never had problems like that
<matti> Lucky you ;p
<MartijnVdS> Only thing that comes close is the mail for the previous owner of my appartment
<MartijnVdS> (collection agencies understand that case though ;))
<matti> Yeah.
<matti> MartijnVdS: When O2 was still billing me, that got upset that I don't pay -- even though they were the ones whom cancelled direct-debit in the first place.
<matti> MartijnVdS: So I had this debt collection dudes going after me.
<matti> MartijnVdS: And they were sending me a snail mail to my old place ;p
<matti> MartijnVdS: And virtually _nobody_ called me about this.
<matti> MartijnVdS: But I guess letting people know is not in their best interest ;p
<MartijnVdS> Sounds like the UK is looking at Belgium for efficiency improvements
<MartijnVdS> instead of the Netherlands or Germany ;)
<matti> Hahaha
<matti> MartijnVdS: In the end I had to call them up, request menagers and be grumpy.
<matti> MartijnVdS: Both of course refused to issue a formal letter stating that it was their mistake and I do not own them anything.
<MartijnVdS> matti: most companies I know can only send "form letters" unless you get a REALLY high-up person
<matti> MartijnVdS: I had to be even more grumpy to get this from both O2 and the debt collectors.
<matti> MartijnVdS: They had an option -- either they send me a letter or we shall see each other in court ;]
<matti> MartijnVdS: Imagine, fsck'up like that on O2's side.
<matti> MartijnVdS: Could cost me my credit rank / score forever.
<MartijnVdS> matti: Big company, hundreds of thousands (millions?) of customers..
<matti> MartijnVdS: This is not something you let them go away with.
<matti> MartijnVdS: Sure, and I already had paperwork from solicitoris ;p
<matti> MartijnVdS: ;p
<matti> MartijnVdS: It pissed me off to that extent ;]
<MartijnVdS> matti: I have insurance for that kind of thing :)
<matti> MartijnVdS: In the end I got what I wanted ;]
<matti> MartijnVdS: And how insurance would protect you from this?
 * dwatkins notes that his xfs filesystem crashed yet again
<MartijnVdS> matti: they pay for the court/lawyer stuff
<dwatkins> I guess I shouldn't use USB for anything critical.
<matti> MartijnVdS: Aaa... OK ;] I see ;]
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: don't use XFS :)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: it works fine for NASA ;)
<matti> Hahah
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: are you NASA?
<matti> dwatkins: ;]
<dwatkins> matti: heh, no
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: (or just spaced-out? :P)
<matti> ;p
<matti> MartijnVdS: BTW, why Belgium?
<MartijnVdS> matti: they're _bad_ at stuff like that :)
<MartijnVdS> matti: (from my Dutch eyes)
<matti> MartijnVdS: When I was Duch part of Belgium I was positively amazed ;]
<matti> MartijnVdS: Has to be the French side ;p
<MartijnVdS> matti: their motorways aren't even paved!
<MartijnVdS> well, barely
<matti> Hehe
<matti> ;]
<matti> MartijnVdS: I was in Ghent ;]
<matti> MartijnVdS: Lots of pretty girls on bikes there ;p
<matti> MartijnVdS: And people are so nice and friendly. I got lost in the train as it did not stopped on the desired station -- for some reason unknown to me -- and random person has approached me and explain everything.
<MartijnVdS> matti: nice
<matti> MartijnVdS: Yeah :)
<matti> New Who was fun ;]
<brobostigon> wow, sms delivery notifications work on three :)
<matti> :)
<matti> brobostigon: :)))
<brobostigon> matti: that was another huge fail when i was with o2, it didnt work.
<matti> brobostigon: Haha
<matti> brobostigon: In general they are quite decent company.
<brobostigon> matti: its true, delivery notifications never worked ever, the whole time i was with o2.
<matti> brobostigon: I had to cancel my broadband with them as in London they were over-subscribed in my area.
<matti> brobostigon: Hahah
<brobostigon> matti: ah i see.
<matti> brobostigon: Right now I am with some tiny ISP and quite happy ;]
<brobostigon> matti: that is good, :)
<matti> ;]
<brobostigon> matti: an isp like goscomb, with native ipv6?
<matti> brobostigon: Hm, I don't know about IPv6.
<matti> brobostigon: Back in Cambrige I was with small ISP too.
<matti> brobostigon: And they had native IPv6.
<brobostigon> matti: ah, i see, :)
<matti> brobostigon: :)
<brobostigon> matti: :)
<gord> logged in to windows, going to the top left doesn't get my my programs >:(
<gord> so i tried it again about two or three times until i realised
<ali1234> why does the top left corner thing sometimes get a little blue triangle on it?
<gord> one of your windows has an urgent hint
<Laney> wow
<Laney> I'm really impressed with Thunderbird's ISP databse lookup thingy
<Laney> also Sigur RÃ³s = â¥
<MartijnVdS> Translation question.. what would you call these: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/5649062815/
<shauno> that's a dandelion
<shauno> the plant itself.  the little seed pods, I'm not sure if there's a name for
<MartijnVdS> shauno: thanks :)
<shauno> curious what they're called in dutch now?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: paardenbloem
<shauno> horse flower?
<MartijnVdS> basically, yes
<shauno> surprised how unrelated the names seem.  that's a fun one :)
<Myrtti> butterflower in Finnish
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Strange, we call these "butter flower" (boterbloem): http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/5649624772/in/photostream/
<shauno> buttercups :)
<popey> evening all
<AlanBell> evening
<shauno> howdy
<LinuxBizarre> Hey all, I'm having trouble updating here.
<LinuxBizarre> I'm getting Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/koshi/xfce-4.8/ubuntu/dists/natty/main/binary-amd64/Packages  404  Not Found
<LinuxBizarre> whenever I runn updates
<LinuxBizarre> I'm running ubuntu 11.04b2 but I've installed the xubuntu desktop environment on it
<shauno> appears that ppa has only been built for maverick; http://ppa.launchpad.net/koshi/xfce-4.8/ubuntu/dists/
<LinuxBizarre> right
<LinuxBizarre> so nothing is wrong, its just there is no repository to check?
<shauno> correct.  apt's right this time; what it's been told to look for, simply isn't there
<LinuxBizarre> Oh ok.
<LinuxBizarre> Well I can deal with that. If its server-side then I'll just have to wait until it gets done
<LinuxBizarre> I just wanted to check I hadn't screwed anything up by installing the xu environment.
<LinuxBizarre> Is there a way I can direct update manager to the beta updates manually, if they exist? I was getting updates through prior to this, when I was using the default gnome WM
<popey> LinuxBizarre: by default update manager will be getting updates
<MartijnVdS> it'll even manage them :P
<popey> you should still get them, although over this weekend there haven't been many, probably due to it being easter
 * popey files bug 769978 and bug 769982
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 769978 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) "Services tab doesn't fit in the window" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769978
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 769982 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) "Splash screen appears for an unreadbly short time" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769982
<brobostigon> popey: hi, something daubers suggested for oggcamp, he suggested, i do a presentation about the hydraulic/hydrostatic car project i have been working on with my dad, however i said, there arent any more tickets left. as you are one of organisers, i thought, i would pervay, the idea to you.
<brobostigon> he suggested earlier*
<popey> yeah, we're working on it
<geekmeplease> Where is the 11.04 repo for bug-fixes, such as for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/768469 ?
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 768469 in software-properties (Ubuntu Natty) "duplicate entries in the updates section with python-apt-common 0.7.100.3ubuntu5 upgrade" [High,Fix committed]
<popey> we're hopefully releasing more tickets soon
<brobostigon> popey: do you think the idea is a good one, and if or not, i should work on it, or not.
<geekmeplease> What is the name of the irc-channel for 11.04?
<popey> yeah, deffo
<geekmeplease> *dev
<popey> #ubuntu+1
<brobostigon> popey: ok, i will do, then, thank you.
<geekmeplease> thank you for the link!
<LinuxBizarre> popey - Thanks. I've just removed the two xfce repositories that are giving errors, by going to update manager > settings > other software and removing them there
<LinuxBizarre> still not recieved any new updates in the update manager itself, but the error is gone
<LinuxBizarre> so I'm assuming thats the right thing to have done?
<popey> when did you last get updates?
<popey> I got a couple of little ones this weekend but they were to apps
 * brobostigon has never designed a presentation before, scary.
<LinuxBizarre> popey - yesterday.
<LinuxBizarre> I'm not worried, anyway.
<LinuxBizarre> If a week goes by and I see no updates then I'll be back in here I guess.
<MartijnVdS> I had a few this morning
<MartijnVdS> but not much
<popey> given it's a holiday weekend
<MartijnVdS> also, the week before release
<LinuxBizarre> Oh I know.
<MartijnVdS> not much gets updated in the last week
<LinuxBizarre> ah now that i didn't know
<LinuxBizarre> I've never run a beta version before
<LinuxBizarre> well
<LinuxBizarre> I have, but only in the 2 days before, and I did a fresh install of the release itself anyway, rather than updating to it
 * brobostigon is now reminded of popey's great mumbuntu presentation,
<MartijnVdS> popey: I'd like some mumbuntu(ish) advice from you :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: LTS or wait for 11.04? (Intel graphics, but too old for unity)
<popey> new pc and unity :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: no money for new PC :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: unless you have suggestions for extreme-low-budget machines?
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/236579
<popey> standard answer
<MartijnVdS> popey: what kind of graphics does that have?
<popey> nvidia ion
<LinuxBizarre> Ok
<LinuxBizarre> I think everything is fine and dandy
<popey> :)
<LinuxBizarre> thanks a lot all
<popey> great!
<popey> np
<LinuxBizarre> :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: not available in the Nether(lands)
<popey> I'll sell you one :)
<LinuxBizarre> Seeya later, I'm sure I'll be back with some silly question eventually :)
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: does it come with a European plug? :)
<popey> it can do :)
<popey> in fact
<popey> i am going to put natty on one now
<MartijnVdS> popey: check your PM window
<MartijnVdS> popey: would this be comparable? ww.asus.com/Barebone_PC/S_Series_3L/S1AT5NM10
<popey> http://www.asus.com/Barebone_PC/S_Series_3L/S1AT5NM10E/
<MartijnVdS> yes, that one :)
<popey> better in some ways
<MartijnVdS> Atom + Ion, and it's a bit cheaper to buy new here
<popey> optical drive, 2xsata
<popey> looks fanless
<popey> which is better
<popey> the revo is a small fan on the gpu
<popey> looks nice
<MartijnVdS> I don't like nvidia too much though :(
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/244977 heheh "Requires UK plug" is about all they say :)
<popey> yeah, i understand that!
<MartijnVdS> that said, I was impressed with Nouveau last time I tried it
<shauno> first time I've actually managed to spend more than 20 minutes with portal2, and it's pretty damned good
<shauno> no spoilers, just happy nerd dance :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: how far are you?
<shauno> in the area labeled beta
<shauno> not sure how better to explain without ruining surprises for those who haven't had the time yet :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that's quite far for 20 minutes of play
<MartijnVdS> shauno: beta is the blue part right?
<shauno> alpha was blue.  I've got orange too now
<MartijnVdS> wheeee :)
<shauno> and I meant before today I'd only managed to spend 20 minutes
<MartijnVdS> you're going to liek Gamma then :)
<shauno> don't want to know how long I've been playing it today   lol
 * MartijnVdS finished it in two evenings
<shauno> loving the artwork in these areas.  someone oughta start selling these posters :)
<gord> yeah i finished it today, played it for an hour or so yesterday... not a long game
<shauno> just found gamma :)
<Slackta> Fuck the Royal Wedding
<Slackta> Fuck William and Kate
<MartijnVdS> !ohmy
<lubotu3> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<Slackta> Cram it MartijnVds
<MartijnVdS> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, jono, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<zleap> well i will be creating ubuntu cd's i guess
<zleap> ty popey
<MartijnVdS> great. now he's pming me
<zleap> has he got anything constructive and on topic to talk about
<MartijnVdS> no, just more of the same
<zleap> ah,  sounds like a person of limited intellegence then
<MartijnVdS> yeah, about shoesize I think
<zleap> so anyone gonna be dishing out ubuntu cd's on the day
<AlanBell> they won't be pressed
<MartijnVdS> not me
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you can burn them though
<zleap> i mean self made ones
<AlanBell> but I have applied for the loco allowance
<AlanBell> oh right
<zleap> cool
<AlanBell> I think anyone who wants the cd on the day will just download it and burn it
<zleap> south west one needs more people to do stuff,
<MartijnVdS> \o/ bootable usb :)
<zleap> MartijnVdS, yeah good idea
<zleap> hi
<jonathonf> will one of those revos cope with 1080 mkvs?
<jonathonf> i could probably search... but
<jonathonf> or even h264
<AlanBell> they can do 1080p, not sure what format it has to be
<jonathonf> ah, yes it will
<jonathonf> wondering whether to finally upgrade my original xbox running xbmc
<MartijnVdS> probably h.264
<MartijnVdS> with va-api or vdpau
<popey> yup, it does
<popey> oops
<gord> only thing i have been able to find that won't play on my revo was a super HD version of a blender open movie, but even that ran fine on my *other* revo
<gord> fun little things :)
 * popey tickles gord 
<popey> !windows
<lubotu3> For discussion on Microsoft software, or help with same, please visit ##windows. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and /msg ubottu equivalents
<popey> bah
<popey> !grub
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)
 * popey pokes gord with bug 758398 and wonders if he has some clue
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 758398 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Bitcoin top-level window unmapped" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/758398
<gord> invisible window :(
<gord> its some race inside compiz - been tricky all cycle
<exobuzz> OT: pc demo compo live from revision http://rvtv.revision-party.net/popup?s=mainhall
<popey> sweet exobuzz
<popey> friend of mine has been tweeting about it
<popey> he's very into the demoscene
<popey> I used to download them all the time back in the day
<exobuzz> there were some nice amiga demos earlier.
<Dave2> There were some...not so great PC demos earlier
<Dave2> The first one was a video of Minecraft.
<exobuzz> yeh heh
<popey> what's the category now?
<AlanBell> exobuzz: do you make stuff like that?
<Dave2> PC demos
<exobuzz> lol. i always sucked at demo coding. i made some *cough* crack intros in the early 1990s
<popey> not like 4K or something?
<popey> no restrictions
<Dave2> I don't think so
<exobuzz> they had a 4k compo but i missed it
<popey> i find the ones that are limited in RAM or disk space to be more impressive
<exobuzz> 8 bit demos were lacking this year.
<exobuzz> there was a plus 4 one that was decent though. but not much else i saw
<popey> thanks for posting the link :)
<exobuzz> np
<exobuzz> AlanBell, i run a resource with connections to demoscene @ www.exotica.org.uk
<AlanBell> my Amiga was possibly the best computer I ever owned
<exobuzz> <3 amiga
 * brobostigon hugs his BeBox
<gord> spectrum demos are the best ;)
<exobuzz> gord, yeh there are some gooduns
<popey> hah, poor video encoder can't cope
<gord> not a huge fan of new demo's - at least, pc demos. lost the spirit of what they used to do
<exobuzz> gord, seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ01EDhL0VM ?
<popey> do the demos ever crash live on stage?
<exobuzz> yeh
<gord> sods law ensures it ;)
<popey> heh
<gord> exobuzz, not sure, am on my netbook right now, no flash here
<exobuzz> there might be a uk party this year after the demise of sundown party.
<exobuzz> waiting for details
<AlanBell> some demos at oggcamp would be good
<exobuzz> mark shuttleworth went to sundown 2006 party. just read it on wikipedia. didnt know that!
<exobuzz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_%28party%29
<AlanBell> in fact 5 seconds of pure awesome for the start of the videos would be great
<gord> lp:~gordallott/+junk/Cvis was the last demo thing i made, should still build okay fingers crossed
<exobuzz> gord, should i be able to do bzr branch then that address or so ?
<gord> yeah
<exobuzz> must be user fail here You have not informed bzr of your Launchpad ID, and you must do this to
<exobuzz> write to Launchpad or access private data.  See "bzr help launchpad-login".
<exobuzz> bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~gordallott/+junk/cvi": no supported schemes
<AlanBell> Cvis
<exobuzz> sorry i did try Cvi first. was just testing
<exobuzz> aah ok
<exobuzz> fail heh. sorry. worked
<AlanBell> don't worry about the warnings, you don't want to write back to it
<AlanBell> so how does it build gord ?
<gord> scons
<AlanBell> playersrc/main.c:25: fatal error: SDL.h: No such file or directory
<exobuzz> sdl-dev needed
<exobuzz> libsdl-dev i think
<popey> libsdl1.2-dev
<exobuzz> thats the one ;-)
<popey> mine fails on glibconfig.h:
<exobuzz> libglib2.0-dev
<exobuzz> apt-file search is my friend
<popey> i have that
<gord> the file SConstruct has the deps
<AlanBell> libsdl-sound1.2-dev too
<exobuzz> is it looking in the wrong place
<popey> I'm on 64-bit if that matters
<gord> built it on 64-bit 6 months ago last i think
<gord> code is a few years old ;)
<exobuzz> add -I/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/glib-2.0/include/ to SConstruct GLOBAL_CFLAGS to fix that
<popey> 23:41:35 < AlanBell> don't worry about the warnings, you don't want to write back to it
<popey> :P
<exobuzz> dont know why it cant find it. gtypes.h should know where glibconfig.h is you should think
<popey> libglew1.5-dev needed too
<popey> libglpng-dev
<exobuzz> yeh heh
<gord> note to self, hire popey to maintain my old codebases
<popey> libsdl-image1.2-dev
<exobuzz> ok built here
<popey> ditto
<exobuzz> Status: Using GLEW 1.5.2
<exobuzz> Checking for available extentions...
<exobuzz> Video mode set failed: Couldn't find matching GLX visual
<exobuzz> fail. :(
<exobuzz> gfx card fail? :)
<popey> how do you actually run it?
<exobuzz> i did ./run-cvis.sh
<popey> works here
<gord> does it run fullscreen?
<exobuzz> my gfx card has "average" support currently. heh well onboard gfx
<popey> in a window by default here
<popey> its quick
<gord> ah then yeah your graphics chip isn't good enough then
<exobuzz> lol - jools@arrakis:~/temp/Cvis$ glxgears
<exobuzz> Running synchronized to the vertical refresh.  The framerate should be
<exobuzz> approximately the same as the monitor refresh rate.
<exobuzz> Segmentation fault
<exobuzz> ok. problems with my current drivers heh
<gord> it was a few years ago that i coded it, and my graphics chip wasn't very good back then, so yeah it'll run quicker now ;)
<popey> is it completely non-interactive
<AlanBell> inc/global.h:41: fatal error: SDL_image.h: No such file or directory
<gord> yeah, was meant to be a music visualisation thing but i never connected it to a spectograph so its just using randomly generated beats
<exobuzz> gord, did you do any speccy stuff back in the day (or more recently) ?
<popey> AlanBell: there's a libsdl*image*dev
<AlanBell> got it
<exobuzz> do you know the uk speccy guys like gasmin / evil paul etc
<AlanBell> built it
<gord> nope, i just played games on my speccy back in the day
<exobuzz> gasman even
<AlanBell> cvis: Creating a new window with peramiters: 32 800 500
<AlanBell> Using software surfaces...
<AlanBell> Segmentation fault
<exobuzz> i coded very badly on the speccy. heh
 * AlanBell likes windows with peramiters too
<exobuzz> i did get some "hacks" for games (infi lives etc) in your sinclair in 1991 or so although i had an amiga by then too
 * exobuzz might buy an nvidia card
<popey> 23:53:19 -TwitFolk:#bitfolk- [dotwaffle/@dotwaffle] That's all folks - just the voting and drinking left! UK Demoparty happening 9-11 September 2011 in Luton, stay tuned! #revision_party
<popey> Off to Luton we go :)
<exobuzz> popey, yay. yeh he helped with sundown, so its sort of the logical continuation
<exobuzz> popey, #ukscene on ircnet is where some uk sceners hang out
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-16
<MooDoo_> hello all
<AlanBell> morning MooDoo_
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
<TheOpenSourcerer> In Portsmouth per chance?
<selinuxium> Morning all  :)
<selinuxium> o/
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: yup Portsmouth today
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
 * selinuxium loves Pompey... :) 
<AlanBell> !ics
<lubotu3> If you want to share the internet connection of your Ubuntu machine with other machines in the network see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Internet/ConnectionSharing
<Myrtti> what was the screenshot tool every cool kid uses nowadays
<Myrtti> other than scrot
<oimon> shutter
<czajkowski> aloha
<Gary> hey everybody
<bigcalm> Howdy peeps :)
<Myrtti> uh... it doesn't have upload to Flickr. ok.
<oimon> is it safe to update 12.04 atm with nvidia card?
<oimon> i thought i saw an issue over the w/end
<MooDoo_> morning all
<popey> oimon: ask in #ubuntu+1
<Myrtti> I wonder why swatchbooker hasn't been packaged properly for Ubuntu
<Myrtti> it's in launchpad and everything
<bigcalm> Is it Tuesday yet? I want my ram and HDDs
<Laney> because nobody did it yet
<Laney> why don't you? :-)
<Myrtti> Laney: well that's the obvious answer "nobody did it yet" but I was interested in the deeper down reason
<oimon> bug 980672
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 980298 in unity "duplicate for #980672 compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in GLWindow::glDraw() from UnityMTGrabHandlesWindow::glDraw()" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/980298
<Laney> everybody waited for someone else?
<bigcalm> Is there an easy way to send a file to a socket?
<bigcalm> Or do I need to write my own socket client?
<JamesTait> Morning all! :D
<MooDoo_> morning
<oimon> the title bar isn't clickable in my unity session, that's weird
<bigcalm> Why am I upgrading my dev server? I'm doing a fresh LVM install tomorrow
<bigcalm> Odd boy
<oimon> is this a bug in unity or liferea? http://i.imgur.com/KpL1j.png
<oimon> liferea does not have the > < on the unity launcher, and alt-tab does not see it
<popey> oimon: have you updated your machine today?
<oimon> popey, no, i'm scared to
 * popey installs liferea
 * oimon logs out to reset unity.
<gord_> neither, its with bamf, but its tracked and fix is worked on for sru0
<gord_> :O! a tail!
<popey> ooh, software centre bug
<oimon> popey, seems like a glitch in the matrix - logging out seems to reset the issue
<popey> bug 982921
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 982921 in software-center (Ubuntu) "USC adds icon to launcher for apps that didn't install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/982921
<gord> wow, BA charge you Â£25 to change seats, geez
<fhilly> HI guys, any one working on Ubuntu Core rootfs?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo_> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<popey> fhilly: can you be more specific?
<popey> magic
<davmor2> morning all
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 Good mornign 
<czajkowski> *morning
<davmor2> morning czajkowski
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka
<davmor2> bigcalm has been kidnapped
 * popey pokes davmor2 with bug 982921
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 982921 in software-center (Ubuntu) "USC adds icon to launcher for apps that didn't install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/982921
<MooDoo> davmor2: alright cheif, you got to respect me now i'm old ;)
<davmor2> popey: I redirect to gord,  USC no longer touches the launcher all unity handled now :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Pfffffffffff Yeah like that's gonna happen ;)  Hippo birdy though dude
<MooDoo> davmor2: cheers man
<popey> davmor2: no, its usc IMO. usc shouldn't add an icon for something that didnt actually install
<popey> problem is the icon is added so you can add a percentage bar to show install process
<popey> but doesn't seem to have a contingency for if the app fails to install
<davmor2> popey: the adding of the icon isn't handled by usc though it is done by unity, unity currently doesn't revome it if you remove the app bug for unity which is already written by myself and mpt
<davmor2> popey: what should happen is unity sees the app hasn't installed and remove that icon like usc did in it's final removal script but unity doesn't
<davmor2> popey: the real bug I see here is the issue with the dialog wording which I'll see if we can do something about
<davmor2> popey: I think it should read cancel or repair rather than ok or repair agreed?
<popey> pass
<davmor2> popey: is it that you have a proxy or is it that you have your own repo mirror?
<davmor2> popey: as for the icon issue I think you'll find that it will be removed when unity add the removal code to their processing for icons,  usc used to remove the app then trigger a script to remove the icon, as far as we can tell unity is just missing the icon removal part everything else is displayed correctly
<popey> i do use a proxy but this could happen for a number of reasons
<davmor2> popey: agreed but we need to know what triggered the dialog in order to reproduce it so we can fix it and close it
<popey> 403 on the repo
<popey> which could happen for a number of reasons
<popey> bug 982948
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 982948 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity misbehaves after installing an application from the Software Centre" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/982948
<popey> (unrelated)
<davmor2> popey: can you screenshot that dialog window at all and add it to that bug please I've directed mvo to it
<popey> davmor2: i can try
<davmor2> popey: thanks
<popey> see that bug above, 982948, the screenshots.. is that unity 2d?
<MooDoo> davmor2: good weekend?
<davmor2> MooDoo: so so
<davmor2> MooDoo: you, did you get a nice new camera for your birthday?
<MooDoo> davmor2: okey cokey
<MooDoo> davmor2: no i had the camera for christmas, just got money, going to buy some stuff for it though
<davmor2> popey: yeap unity 2d
<popey> ta, will reassign
<davmor2> popey: the only reason I can tell is by the screenshot that drops an icon under the rubbish bin
<popey> ahh
<davmor2> popey: in 3d the tiles tilt including the bin, in 2d the tiles drop under the bin and scroll up from under it which is really weird
<oimon> question: the bank messed up and charged me for 4 years for house insurance that i didn't own. i'm asking for a refund, should i ask for compensation?
<davmor2> oimon: depends did they have a clause that meant you should of closed it?  A lot of these pay monthly insurance deals you have to actually cancel or they carry on regardless
 * daftykins spots Sid James running around
<oimon> davmor2, the bank account, mortgage and insurance are with the bank. they arranged the move and the transfer of the insurance
<davmor2> oimon: ouch, in that case go for it they can only say no
<oimon> sucks because they hid my new insurance inside the mortgage so i didn't notice
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> eggs and baskets come to mind
<daftykins> mind you i still haven't phoned my insurance co. about the break-in i had
<daftykins> you're meant to tell them aren't you?
<dogmatic69> bah. got a white block on the screen again
<dogmatic69> how do I restart compiz
<daftykins> pass
<davmor2> dogmatic69: compiz --restart
<sagaci> compiz --restart vs. unity --restart
<dogmatic69> compiz (core) - Warn: Unknown option '--restart'
<sagaci> compiz --replace
<dogmatic69> ah, that done it
<dogmatic69> thanks
<davmor2> dogmatic69: I was close :)
<dogmatic69> now its running in the terminal, if I close the terminal bad things happen :/
<dogmatic69_> had to restart, damn thing crashed again
<davmor2> dogmatic69_: you're not meant to close a terminal window that you have restarted a core service in :D
<dogmatic69_> davmor2: I would have figured something like would run in the bg
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> only with &&
<davmor2> dogmatic69_: no you would need to set it to run in the background with a single & at the end if memory serves
<daftykins> my bad
<davmor2> daftykins: && is to trigger a new command after isn't it
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> chaining them together
<daftykins> though iirc it's only so that the second only runs if the first 'succeeded'
<BigRedS> daftykins: only if the first exits 0 (succesful)
<BigRedS> && is 'and'
<BigRedS> ; is to simply execute one and then teh other
<BigRedS> regardless of the way the first exited
<BigRedS> command1 ; command2
<directhex> and || for "or" i.e. if exit status for first command is nonzero
<davmor2> and | pipes the output of the one into and other
<BigRedS> will run command1 then command2 and wont care what command1 did
<BigRedS> well, yeah, but that's quite different.
<daftykins> quite the BASH class we're having here ;)
<daftykins> tum te tum
<fhilly_> rootfs
<popey> hello fhilly_ can we help?
<fhilly> hi Popey
<fhilly> I am trying to get detailed information about Ubunt Core rootfs
<AlanBell> you mean ext3 or do you mean on the CD?
<fhilly> Ubuntu-Core rootfs
<AlanBell> in fact go back a step, what are you really trying to achieve?
<fhilly> it is the minimum rootfs
<fhilly> I am trying to get detailed information about it, to utilise it on x86 and / or ARM and start contributing to Ubuntu
<fhilly> and ubuntu core rootfs, is the minimum rootfs, so I don't have to start from scratch
<AlanBell> there is some stuff about it here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Core
<AlanBell> most people start with the standard distribution install with gnome and so on
<fhilly> it is not enough, I have gone through it
<fhilly> I use Ubuntu as OS, but I would like to work on the low level stuff
<AlanBell> hardware enablement stuff?
<AlanBell> do you work for an OEM?
<fhilly> No, I am Embedded Systems Engineer anyway, but it is nothing to do with my work
<fhilly> I would like to gain more knowledge of it and experience and at the same time contribute to the community
<fhilly> is Ubuntu-Core rootfs for OEM mainly? as it seems no one on the forumes is interested!!
<fhilly> I do have hardware knowledge anyway, so I just need to glue things together
<fhilly> I have worked on some embedded linux as well, but general linux like kernel and rootfs. ,linux from scratch too. However I am interested in Ubuntu core as I see it a great project
<AlanBell> well the ubuntu-core is just Ubuntu with nothing installed other than enough to install other packages from the repositories
<AlanBell> if you start with ubuntu core and apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^ then you get the stuff that goes on the CD
<fhilly> Thanks Alan, is there and detailed information about its architecture?
<AlanBell> it is a starting point for building custom spins of Ubuntu really
<AlanBell> the architecture is the same as the full Ubuntu
<fhilly> I have already done so, and I am working on it for ARM as well
<fhilly> I believe there is few missing stuff in documentation
<fhilly> for example, we need to install "sudo" package before we can use apt-get as the system will through error message like file system locked and we need sudo to do it
<fhilly> any detailed Ubuntu architecture documentation? I try to get as much information as possible about the under laying layers before I progress
<AlanBell> yeah, it is very minimal
<AlanBell> at that level it is basically debian
<AlanBell> maybe someone in the #ubuntu-devel channel or #ubuntu-arm would be better to ask about it
<fhilly> ok thanks Alan, I will try to dig further in Debian then, and try ubuntu-devel. thanks again
<BigRedS> anyone know off the top of their head where Zimbra password restrictions are configured?
<popey> in thunderbird with an email open, double middle click, do you get a white box?
<popey> (then move the mouse and it should scroll around)
<popey> i guess there should be an icon in that bopx
<popey> *box
<oimon> popey, huh?
<oimon> were you asking anyone in the room, or talking to anyone particular
<oimon> hmm xchat doesn't have a scroll bar anymore
<oimon> ah got it back, weird
<popey> anyone
<gord> popey, double middle click? i've no idea how you find these things, also can't reproduce here
<popey> hah
<popey> oh actually, only single middle click
<DJones> Afternoon
<popey> yo
<AlanBell> popey: it just pastes the last selected thing for me
<popey> how can it paste when you're reading an email?
<AlanBell> oh, reading. It does nothing
 * popey videos
<DJones> Are there any major problems with 12.04 now that are likely to stop me upgrading?
<oimon> middle click where?
<popey> DJones: no, it is perfect*
<popey>  
<popey>  
<popey>  
<popey>  * Note: May not be perfect.
<DJones> Heh, thats what I like to hear
<DJones> I'll give it a go
<oimon> cannot reproduce the TB issue
 * Laney eyes the new code of conduct
<Laney> proposed new code of conduct ;-)
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdUPKeKDUgU
<oimon> popey, i get the icon
<popey> do you get the box or an actual icon?
<oimon> icon
<popey> piccy?
<DJones> upgrade running /me crosses fingers
<oimon> sure
<oimon> just one sec, need to censor stuff
<popey> ooh, i restarted firefox and it came up!
<oimon> ok
<oimon> makes sense
<popey> s/firefox/thunderbird/
<oimon> TB does a trick on me where i can't drag emails to folders unless i restart
<AlanBell> popey: I get the icon circle, with arrows in it
<oimon> This video has been removed because it is too long. argh
<oimon> what's the limit for youtube videos?
<popey> yeah, i do now.
<popey> depends
<popey> 10-15 mins usually
<popey> mine is longer
<oimon> doh
<oimon> i have a 17 mins one rejected
<AlanBell> I was looking at a short email earlier so it didn't do it as there were no scrollbars
<popey> (missus)
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/my_videos_upload_verify
<popey> that lets you increase the limit
<oimon> hmm
<oimon> i guess i have to reupload though
<popey> http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en-GB&answer=71673
<gord> youtube still limit videos? they increased mine to unlimited a long time ago
<popey> "Longer length uploads are available globally to users with verified accounts. Videos can be up to 12 hours long."
<gord> had to root my phone so that i could use an app that automatically synchronises the time on the phone.. silly world we live in where apps are not allowed to change the time
<TheOpenSourcerer> bug 983018
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 983018 in OpenERP Server "Improve the "groups" attribute" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/983018
<brobostigon> gord: i have am app like that, for my tablet, and that isnt rooted.
<oimon> i use the button "get settings from network"
<oimon> although my hp touchpad keeps losing time/date settings
<gord> brobostigon, they removed the limitation in later android versions
<gord> but that doesn't help me
<brobostigon> gord: i have 2.3.7
<AlanBell> this looks rather interesting http://www.startreklondon.com
<popey> "Interesting"
<davmor2> AlanBell: I saw that and thought that's not how you spell wreck and then thought the riots were surely the start-rek-london I then took the rek back a letter and it was far more geeky then
<brobostigon> gord: which version do you have, with said limitation out of curiosity?
<gord> whatever is on the n1
<brobostigon> either 2.2 or 2.3, but it can run 4.
<davmor2> gord: mine does on 2.2.1
<gord> whatever version of a n1 i have, applications changing the date/time no work
<gord> you guys can say it works for you all you want, but it doesn't here ;)
<davmor2> gord: I wonder if they didn't set the ip address of an ntp server
<gord> no you are missunderstanding
<oimon> shame that the new single window gimp won't be in 12.04
<popey> NO U
<gord> the n1 revision i have has a bug where if you start doing international travel the clock gets irrevocably desynced, and never synchronises again. so i have to use an app to do it itself, but for it to automatically change the date/time it needs root because the phone won't let you change it without
<davmor2> gord: ah now I see what you are getting at, that makes sense now
<meet> i installed wine through the software center. i want to install that same software on another pc with no internet connection. where can i find the .deb package of wine?
<jpds> meet: /var/cache/apt/archives/
<meet> but i cant find the wine package there jpds
<davmor2> meet: it's installed from an online repo so you should fine that on the system you installed it on, you can then add that to the system with no internet and install it
<meet> is it hidden?
<meet> davmor2 where can i find the package
<davmor2> meet: hmmm pass should be there but obviously now
<davmor2> not
<meet> do u have wine by any chance? davmor2
<meet> do u have it in the normal path?
<davmor2> I do
<meet> davmor2: the wine package is there in the archives folder ?
<popey> meet: apt-cache policy wine
<popey> that will tell you where you got it from
<popey> http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ for me
<popey> http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/w/wine/
<meet> universe i386 packages? @ popey
<popey> yup
<davmor2> meet: it's just easier to connect the system to the internet as you don't know if there are deps required for it to install that you'll be missing
<meet> that's the whole point davmor2 i dont have an internet connection on that and would like to transfer the existing packages using aptoncd/
<meet> popey: but what was the use of the apt cache?
<brobostigon> packages.ubuntu.com should show the dependencies. also.
<popey> meet: that was just to tell you where you could ge tthe package
<popey> and then put on a usb stick
<popey> synaptic also has a menu option to make this easier
<popey> on the internet connected machine you can generate a script which pulls down everything
<popey> then you copy all of that to the non-internet-connected machine
<bittin> yay beaten Angry Birds in Space =)
<sagaci> that's hard
<sagaci> i gave up
<directhex> bittin, and all the extra maps?
<popey> hello lornajane
<lornajane> hey popey!  How's life?
<bittin> directhex, nope just the regular ones :p
<popey> ticketyboo thanks lornajane âº
<popey> lornajane: coming to oggcamp perchance?
<popey> 18/19 Aug
<gordonjcp> yay oggcamp
<popey> :D
<popey> In Liverpool too.
<lornajane> popey: it's in my diary, I saw it was a northern edition.  Have spent all weekend telling other people to come too
 * gordonjcp is trying to organise a couple of other people from here
<popey> yay
<gordonjcp> unfortunately I only have two spare seats, and realistically that's for two skinny people
<popey> hah
<gordonjcp> I wanted to get a crew-cab but they weren't prepared to pay the ridiculous amount extra
<lornajane> I've been at whiskyweb in Edinburgh over the weekend, which was mixed open source technologies (but admittedly mostly PHP).  They had a really successful hackathon and I think those folk would enjoy oggcamp
 * daubers needs to book his hotel
<gordonjcp> lornajane: oddly enough mgdm is one of the people who expressed an interest in sharing a lift down
 * popey googles whiskeyweb
<lornajane> gordonjcp: good good.  I first met him at a lugradiolive anyway, and was hassling him to do oggcamp this year.  He and I might also do froscon
<DJones> I'd heard people talking about whiskyweb...I thought it was a Whisky drinking/tasting event
<gordonjcp> lornajane: where are you based?
<lornajane> DJones: yeah, it's a bit of a daft name for a technical conference and I just went home when the whisky came out - apart from that it was good though
<lornajane> gordonjcp: Leeds
<gordonjcp> ah, not horribly far south then
<lornajane> gordonjcp: hehe, no, nicely middle-ish :)
<gordonjcp> lornajane: tbh I think it would be impractical to hold a conference much further north than the central belt
<gordonjcp> but we really could do with more up here
<DJones> I suspect I'm probably the person closest to Oggcamp
<gordonjcp> DJones: I take it Dan isn't in this channel? ;-)
<DJones> gordonjcp: I'm only about 10 miles away, so I guess that would mean Dan is from Liverpool
<gordonjcp> I quite fancy bringing back the Linux Beer Walks
<AlanBell> o/ lornajane
<lornajane> hello AlanBell :)
<hamitron> gordonjcp, aren't most too unfit to walk far, after sitting at a comp 25 hours per day? ;)
<AlanBell> don't think I am going to make it to oggcamp this time :(
<czajkowski> AlanBell: oh noes
<lornajane> hey czajkowski!  I was taking your name in vain last week, someone from Dublin tried to tell me there were no good tech groups around.  Nonsense!
<AlanBell> maybe it will be back in the Maltings next year
<czajkowski> lornajane: oh indeed!
<czajkowski> for shame!
<czajkowski> phyton and php are large groups there
<SuperEngineer> idea for next oggcamp - Seattle - with banners everywhere shouting - "meh!"
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<lornajane> I'm setting up my new laptop - it has a touch screen and I keep forgetting I can touch things
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, just cause
<popey> heh
<davmor2> lornajane: you've been able to touch things for years though surely,  just stuff on the computer that you haven't right?
<lornajane> davmor2: you are quite correct :)
<lornajane> my (non-geek) sister is sitting watching and suddenly asked why I needed a touchscreen laptop if I was just going to keep on using keyboard for everything
<lornajane> it's a good question
<gordonjcp> lornajane: because if you run android-x86 it's really, really hard to get used to not using a touchscreen ;-)
<DJones> Thats unexpected, not sure whether the upgrade to 12.04 has finished/completed, but the update window has closed down without asking me to restart
<DJones> Although, it did look to be near the end anyway
<DJones> Lets try for a reboot
<AlanBell> lornajane: what laptop is it with a touchscreen?
<lornajane> AlanBell: it's a thinkpad x220t
<lornajane> so far I've booted windows, waited around a lot, not understood what to do, and installed LXDE Mint
 * AlanBell wonders how good the unity multitouch stuff is these days
<lornajane> AlanBell: I saw some mixed reviews, I need to get into it.  Right now I don't even know where to start but I needed to replace my machine in enough time to get it all set up before summer conference madness
<lornajane> this is a dinky new laptop until I work out how to use the touch stuff
<lornajane> this openbox can handle touch clicks at least, and I assume will be OK if I use the pen as well
 * czajkowski wonders how many times on the UK list we're gonna have threads on top posting this year 
<davmor2> czajkowski: once every other week at a guess
<davmor2> czajkowski: that or one that lasts the entire year
<seeker> Meh, things geeks get worked up about #1029582
<czajkowski> could also argue that signature from one of them is not very nice on a list with all the images on it
<czajkowski> meh
<czajkowski> but the fact gareth has been asked on a number of ocassions to stop top posting is annoying
<daftykins> anyone played with mosh yet? http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2012/04/13/mosh/
<daftykins> what's the correct service name to restart once you've fiddled with /etc/network/interfaces ? "sudo service networking restart" doesn't seem to work
<daftykins> never have quite got the hang of 'service', prefer using init.d items instead still really ;x
<gord> i used to think that, bah at all this new fangled stuff, my old stuff works fine! but then i need to write a new init.d script so decided to try writing a service instead... so much simpler
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> what's the deal with reinvoking ones interfaces then?
<gord> network-interface maybe?
<gord> the networking init.d scripts got converted over to upstart anyway :)
<daftykins> what does that mean?
<gord> /etc/init/ has all the services
<gord> it means /etc/init.d/networking is just a symlink to a wrapper that calls service start networking
<daftykins> yeah, 'networking' still exists but it mentioned deprecation when i used that method
<daftykins> oh right XD
<daftykins> indeed, i see in there it calls "/lib/init/upstart-job networking start"
<MartijnVdS> But what if we switch to systemd?
<daftykins> that an upstart alternative?
<popey> hehe
<daftykins> hrmm i'm looking at Microsoft certs
<daftykins> what a minefield
<gord> you can get certified in minesweeper?
<popey> they upgraded it
<popey> it's solitaire now
<directhex> upstart is an ubuntuism, really
<popey> and chrome
<directhex> systemd is the declaration of the bold new future, from lennart pettering (pulseaudio, network manager, etc)
<MartijnVdS> directhex: and some people don't like the fact that systemd is a Lennartism
<daftykins> hrmm
<davmor2> directhex: and rhel 6
<popey> doesn't android use it too?
<directhex> popey, android doesn't. webos does.
<popey> sorry, chromium
<MartijnVdS> ChromeOS?
<popey> ya
<popey> given they employ keybuk âº
<gord> i like the idea of user services, still waiting on upstart to finish that though
<directhex> systemd has less penetration than upstart, but upstart adoption is going to go away very quickly outside ubuntuland
<directhex> i.e. upstart usage is due to "we already used upstart before systemd existed"
<directhex> i wouldn't even say systemd is technically better... but the linux world inevitably does what lennart tells them to
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Hey at least he's not Hans Reiser :P
<daftykins> ooh there is a test centre for MS certs in Guernsey
<daftykins> fancy that
<directhex> lolMS
<daftykins> directhex: considering it for something to do ^_^
<awilkins> Good evening, ladies and germs
<daftykins> hey
<dogmatic69_> o/
 * awilkins amuses self by copying hiberfil.sys to a thumb drive
<awilkins> Sat here on a LiveUSB because this laptop has Windows 7 installed on it and it's lame
<awilkins> I've not done proper development work on Windows in so long all my toolkits have atrophied
<davmor2> awilkins: why are you sitting on a liveusb, stick it in the windows machine and boot from it :P
<awilkins> That's what I meant - I've booted from it
<awilkins> I'm tempted to shrink the Windows partition and install it, but I'd still be long enough away from "productive" that it wouldn't be worth the effort - I left my usual external SSD at home by omission
<daftykins> hrmm what to do for food tonight
<awilkins> Ordinarily this machine just boots off the eSATA and runs off the SSD
<daftykins> 0o
<awilkins> I must institute a more rigorous bag check
<awilkins> To avoid forgetting important things like, my work
<awilkins> Have busied myself with management type stuff today.
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<daftykins> sounds... nasty
<awilkins> Well, given that my employer has elected to pay me a derisory raise to pretend to be managing things, I sometimes find it essential to do so
<awilkins> I try to achieve this by making things manage themselves
<daftykins> :O
<awilkins> This is the most palatable arrangement to us developers anyway
<awilkins> Ok, question, what are peoples favourite managing-software-stuff-on-a-website things
<MartijnVdS> ?
<awilkins> particularly things that integrate nicely with Mylyn
<MartijnVdS> like review/merge requests, etc.?
<awilkins> Trac, Redmine, JIRA, Bugzilla, etc
<MartijnVdS> We actually use RT 8-|
<awilkins> RT?
<MartijnVdS> Request Tracker. I don't recommend it for bug/software tracking
<awilkins> I did at one point want to make an in-house build of Launchpad but it was a bit raw at the time
<MartijnVdS> We made a whole bunch of custom scripts to get it to do what WE want
<davmor2> awilkins: what you mean like launchpad?
<awilkins> davmor2: Yeah, Launchpad has some lovely features
<awilkins> davmor2: Not sure it covers all the ground people want here though..
<awilkins> I do want to encourage workflows that are basically similar to the Bazaar team
<davmor2> awilkins: Why what do you think it doesn't cover? and throw that at czajkowski
<SuperEngineer> hmmm.. following the realisiation yesterday that it may be a hardware problem stopping system sounds on installed  12.04 64bit - downloaded the 32 bit iso - in VirtualBox I get a message "This kernel requires  the following features not present on the CPU: pae" [and is unable to boot of course ]
<SuperEngineer> I assume it refers to physical address  extension... but why?
<SuperEngineer> hm....
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's required now
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: modern CPUs tend to have it
<SuperEngineer> [never claimed my cpu was modern ;)  ]
<MartijnVdS> o.O
<awilkins> Or is it more that the VirtualBox "virtual CPU" doesn't support PAE?
<SuperEngineer> ...so how does installed 12.04 boot ok?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: yes that
<MartijnVdS> Clue, I don'
<awilkins> 64-bit doesn't need PAE
<MartijnVdS> t have one
<awilkins> PAE is a workaround for not having 64-bit address space
<SuperEngineer> bullseye... I reckon awilkins  & MartijnVdS are spot on
<SuperEngineer> ta
<awilkins> SuperEngineer: There's a PAE / NX flag for the VBox machine
 * SuperEngineer goes flag hunting in VBox
<awilkins> There's no special PAE edition of the 32-bit kernel now because Precise is a LTS release, they merged a lot of the kernel builds to reduce maintenance overhead
<awilkins> SuperEngineer: tis in Processor tab
<SuperEngineer> fingers crossed...
<SuperEngineer> ...& it's booting :)
 * awilkins bimbles off home
<dogmatic69_> is there a quick way to move windows between spaces?
 * SuperEngineer taps finies waiting to see if alert sounds exist under 32bit 12.04 on this pooter
<SuperEngineer> nope - no difference on 32bit...  same as 64 all other sounds perfect - no alert sounds :(     kernel 1 - pooter 0
<MartijnVdS> maybe it's vbox being annoying
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS:  suspect not - the installed [for several weeks] on hdd 64bit is identical
<SuperEngineer> also suspect my pooter is just like me... refuses to acknowledge own age
<SuperEngineer> I would report it as a bug - but who am I to go again Mark S's revised v. original intentions...
 * SuperEngineer sniggers
<AlanBell> 64bit might be default on the CD this time
<gord> popey, you get theme hospital from gog.com? i love gog.com but for obvious reasons, there installers just install dosbox + the game and run the game in dosbox ;)
<popey> yeah, didnt realise that
 * DJones has a happy wife, cityville has been fixed (in that fixed = she can play on it, not that fixed = deleted from history)
<DJones> Her comment "I'm so glad to back on linux, its quicker, it doesn't crash" This is after having to use Windows 7 to play her game :)
<lornajane> DJones: yay :)
<lornajane> today I booted windows on a new laptop (and waited, and rebooted, you know the drill).  I moaned and my (non-geek) sister told me to be patient because it was running for the first time
<lornajane> then watched me install and run linux in a lot less time than it took windows to just start
<DJones> I can believe it
<Myrtti> I see it's time for the bimonthly "do not top post" discussion on the mailinglist
<AlanBell> sandwich posting ftw
<DJones> mmmhh, bacon sandwich :)
<JohnRobert> hi
<JohnRobert> anyone know how I'd go about doing a dist-upgrade to the 12.04 beta?
<JohnRobert> ah wait it's in big letters on the ubuntu website
<jacobw> i really need to lose this fedora cloak
<popey> jacobw: sudo update-manager -d
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] A hard tablet to swallow - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/04/16/a-hard-tablet-to-swallow/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=a-hard-tablet-to-swallow
<jacobw> dist-upgrade?
<JohnRobert> hmm not enough free space
<JohnRobert> :/
<lornajane> jacobw: it's full-upgrade these days but the two do the same thing I believe
<JohnRobert> anyone know of a popular tool for viewing what's taking up loads of space?
<JohnRobert> gui
<gordonjcp> I'm not sure how a GUI would work for that
<gordonjcp> it would basically be a GUI containing a list of paths and numbers...
<JohnRobert> there's already something that does it, looks like a pie chart
<JohnRobert> can't remember what it's called
<popey> baobab
<popey> its pre-installed
<JohnRobert> yah!
<JohnRobert> ta
<popey> press super -> disk usage
<daftykins> dist-upgrade is deprecated?
<popey> depends what you're trying to do
<popey> if you want to upgrade from 11.10 to 12.04 as I believe JohnRobert is, we recommend update manager or do-release-upgrade
<daftykins> i always use it to keep a server/desktop current
<arsen> yo daftykins
<arsen> home now?
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> Ports-land once more yep
<arsen> arh, stil at work here. crazy day on sunday - ended up being basically the end of the world. was up 8am -> 6am, came into work at 12 :<
<daftykins> might be back at the weekend to the London flat once more to rejig the boss' travelling laptop
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> at least they let you sleep a bit? :)
<arsen> just getting my allocation of free work food now tho
<arsen> 7pm = free Â£15 dinner
<daftykins> \o/
<arsen> yeah, some sleep. all i really wana do is drink beer and play some computer games to de-stress heh.
<daftykins> any jobs mentioning on-call put me off even more now ;D
<arsen> heh depends on the pay to balance it
<arsen> it's all about having me-time tho, so we'll see how my opinion changes in the future :)
<daftykins> =]
<JohnRobert> how on earth does one change the cpu speed in ubuntu these days?
<daftykins> how on earth did you ever do it? cpufreqd or elsewise?
<JohnRobert> cpufreq applet thing
<JohnRobert> does 12.04 have better power management options? eg - run cpu fast when on ac etc..
<MartijnVdS> Why would you want to control that manually?
<MartijnVdS> I think it runs the CPU faster on AC, or at least, uses less power saving
<JohnRobert> well I'd like control over it
<MartijnVdS> But only if you need it -- if you don't need it it'll probably just scale down the speed
<MartijnVdS> No, you wouldn't ;)
<MartijnVdS> the computer is much better at it
<JohnRobert> yes I would, I have that in windows
<JohnRobert> sometimes I don't want my fan spinning lots because the cpu is running 100%
<JohnRobert> etc
<MartijnVdS> Then it'll overheat
<daftykins> i'd sure want control over my laptop turbo'ing - pesky i5s :D
<JohnRobert> no, I'd like to turn the cpu speed down when on ac etc..
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Wait for Ivy Bridge ;)
<JohnRobert> so that the fan doesn't spin so much
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: gonna be the same deal?
<MartijnVdS> JohnRobert: http://mjg59.livejournal.com/92880.html
<JohnRobert> I didn't mean I wanted to interfere with the fan directly
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: It'll use less power for the same speed
<JohnRobert> what I just mentioned is a good reason why articles like this are silly
<daftykins> err nah turbo is just not something i want 24/7 :D
 * JohnRobert now actually reads it
<MartijnVdS> JohnRobert: You don't want to interfere with the fan directly. You don't want to have the fan turn on when you're doing "X" (watching videos?)
<MartijnVdS> The effect is the same
<MartijnVdS> But the way of getting there is slightly different :)
<MartijnVdS> The system should _know_ you don't want the fans on if you're doing <X>
<JohnRobert> hmm
<JohnRobert> yeah, but in reality it won't work like that
<JohnRobert> in an ideal world it would
<MartijnVdS> We want to get to the ideal world in the end
<MartijnVdS> small steps
<JohnRobert> think about it, you're browsing a web page and a tab you're not looking at has flash loaded which is using loads of cpu time
<MartijnVdS> Audio is getting there, for exampel
<JohnRobert> causing the cpu to ramp up
<MartijnVdS> I don't install flash
<JohnRobert> is gnash any good yet?
<MartijnVdS> but I agree, that's annoying
<MartijnVdS> No idea
<JohnRobert> or swfdec or wahtever
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elegantinvention/isostick-the-optical-drive-in-a-usb-stick
<MartijnVdS> popey: if you don't want unetbootin :)
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> i suppose it's still relevant if it lets you pick what ISO to mount from any you throw on
<MartijnVdS> it does
<daftykins> cor
<MartijnVdS> it's still a bit beta though
<MartijnVdS> the guy who makes them is 'lain' on #sparkfun
<arsen> nice toy
<arsen> would love one at work here.
<JohnRobert> it's a good idea
<JohnRobert> also re that cpu scaling thing, often the cpu ramps up just from stuff doing a lot of IO
<JohnRobert> for example, dropbox indexing, update manager etc..
<JohnRobert> and sometimes you don't want that to start sucking up your battery
<popey> MartijnVdS: so you just drag an ISO onto the stick?
<MartijnVdS> popey: yes, and the stick has a bootloader that lets you select the ISO to boot
<popey> this can be done with grub
<MartijnVdS> popey: I don't know what he uses
<popey> you could take any usb stick, make two partitions, one for grub, one for ISOs
<popey> job done
<MartijnVdS> popey: but this shows up as a real USB CD-ROM drive
<MartijnVdS> (and a USB memory stick)
<popey> what problem does that solve?
<MartijnVdS> I don't know.. I guess if you have 20 ISOs and need to boot random ones often on random hardware it's useful
<daubers> o/
<daftykins> i was almost going to say it could be useful for pre-USB boot systems
<daftykins> but ;D
<ali1234> lol, just installing grub on a usb stick is a pain in the ass
<ali1234> just for normal booting
<ali1234> you must use obscure command line parameters to stop it from probing bios devices
<ali1234> because usb isn't bios device
<ali1234> if you don't, it will just hang for about 10 minutes and then fail to install
<daftykins> sounds like a fun time!
<ali1234> grub really sucks for usb
 * Laney goes on a passport hunt
<hank3three3> hi, I am trying to copy some dvd's to my hard drive, I'm running 12.04, are there any programs in 12.04 I can use?
<daftykins> hmm, not sure if we're meant to be all legal and what not here
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: well they're probably DVDs of his friend's wedding or some such
<hank3three3> its for  my own personal use, and not sharing
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: or his baby's first steps
<daftykins> 0o
<MartijnVdS> hank3three3: http://handbrake.fr/ -- it links to Ubuntu packages on the Download page
<hank3three3> ph, that looks good as I have a macpro laptop as well thank you, will try see if I can work it out
<hank3three3> in Ubuntu it looks like it only goes up to 11,10, that is a pity
<MartijnVdS> hank3three3: you can install that version on 12.04 just fine
<hank3three3> oh, good, I didnt know that
<MartijnVdS> hank3three3: just use the "apt-add-repository" line, then edit /etc/apt/sources.list.d/stebbins-whaever file that was creasted to have "oneiric" instead of "precise"
<MartijnVdS> then you should be able to install it
<Laney> ARGH
<Laney> WHERE IS IT
<MartijnVdS> Laney: It dropped down /dev/null
<daftykins> again!?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: so probably somewhere in /dev/random
<MartijnVdS> things always end up there
<Laney> 120 odd quid and a trip to Peterborough to get a replacement
<Laney> :( :( :( :(
<daftykins> that'll learn ya!
<MartijnVdS> Laney: what though
<Laney> passport
<MartijnVdS> Ouch
<hank3three3> ok, thank you
<Laney> paspoort
<MartijnVdS> Laney: Yes. Always know where it is. Like a towel.
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> good idea.
<Laney> I did know where it is.
<Laney> Then it wasn't there â¦
<MartijnVdS> Maybe someone doesn't want you to leave the country
<Nafallo> I should figure out how to get a new one of them
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: Consulate probably?
<Nafallo> yeah, I would think so.
<Laney> with maximum hassle, trouble and strife
<Laney> and suspicion
<Nafallo> I rather not head back to foreign country to get it sorted.
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: Why? They hate you there?
<MartijnVdS> Is it like Fallout 3.. the moment you enter the country, everyone is hostile toward to?
<Nafallo> nah. it's more the opposite. ;-)
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: Women claiming their kids are yours and wanting your love?
<MartijnVdS> Or men.. whichever you prefer.
<Nafallo> neither. I don't make kids.
<MartijnVdS> A true geek 8-)
<Nafallo> haha
<MartijnVdS> Anyway
<MartijnVdS> Time to do some serious Zzzing
<daftykins> nn MartijnVdS o/
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: gnight
<Laney> can you get to foreign country without passport?
<daftykins> which?
<Nafallo> hopefully not.
<Nafallo> but it hasn't expired yet.
<Laney> aha
<Nafallo> I still have a few months.
<Nafallo> just figured I'd be prepared.
<Laney> I need to find or get a new one before UDS :P
<Nafallo> :-P
<Nafallo> that's... soon
<Laney> yeah.
<Laney> the passport office have a one week service though, so it's easily doable
<Laney> assuming appointments aren't too hard to come by
<MartijnVdS> You have to make appointments for passports?
<MartijnVdS> â¥ NL ;)
<Nafallo> I've heard Dutch... </3
<Laney> no
<Laney> for the fast track service you do
<Laney> but not for normal applications
<brobostigon> !info gnome-shell unstable
<lubotu3> gnome-shell (source: gnome-shell): graphical shell for the GNOME desktop. In component main, is optional. Version 3.2.2.1-3 (unstable), package size 350 kB, installed size 940 kB
<hank3three3> MartijnVdS: worked it out, got it installed, and playing around with it now, hopefully, I can work out how to use it, thank you, definately going to add it to my macbook pro
<justso> hello
<daftykins> 0o
<gord> time to upgrade to maverick! <img href="slowpoke.jpg"/>
<awilkins> Hey, does the nouveau driver work with Unity 3D now, or is Unity 2D just a lot shinier in Precise?
<awilkins> Ooh, a "sticky edges off" button in the Displays panel
 * awilkins toggles
<awilkins> Schweet
<Nafallo> gord: waitwhat? maverick?
<gord> awilkins, its worked with unity for a release or two now iirc, but the driver still has a bunch of problems with stability and texture memory leaks so i wouldn't recommend it
<awilkins> gord, Ah, fairy snuff. This isn't my usual place to run this copy, it's my external work drive, I've just been upgrading it
<awilkins> It uses the Intel at work anyway, it's one of those fancy git laptops with an Optimus
<ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] Losing things - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2012/04/passport/
<Laney> huh
<Laney> I didn't tag that for planet :O
<Laney> I forgot to update my u-uk feed on the wiki it seems. Ah well.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-17
<JohnRobert> turns out my wife has been shagging someone else too
<JohnRobert> that's good news!
<JohnRobert> whoops, this is totally the wrong channel
<JohnRobert> and wrong network.
<JohnRobert> and it's logged :(
 * JohnRobert cowers away for a good month or so until this blows over.
<AlanBell> morning all
<popey> morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<mattt> what the hell was that
<MooDoo> mattt: ?
<MooDoo> ah just seen above lol
<diplo> Morning al
<diplo> l
<mattt> MooDoo: :)
<DJones> Morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<mattt> czajkowski: morning
<DJones> I'm glad I'm not working in London next week, 3 day tube strike, maintenance and upgrade staff, so wonder how that will affect the running of them
<oimon> what?
<oimon> tube strike?
<oimon> ah, hopefully that won't affect stations
<DJones> oimon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17738569
<oimon> bob crow is a greedy greedy man
<MartijnVdS> How can you strike for 72 hours on one day?
<oimon> btw if you are on an irc channel with no ops, how does one gain ops privs?
<MooDoo> oimon: you don't
<MooDoo> oimon: unless you can find an op or the channel owner, i suppose you could contact freenode staff ?
<lornajane> oimon: you hunt down someone with ops privs, or you talk to the freenode staff I guess
<oimon> ok, thanks
<DJones> oimon: Look at the access list for the channel, that'll tell you who the op s are
<MartijnVdS> \o/ chanserv
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<popey> yes!
<directhex> oimon, a network oper can possibly grant ops, depending on the ircd they use (we use inspircd for work, and i have this power)
<oimon> tihnk i've solved my terrible graphics performance
<oimon> switched my nvidia nvs 290 card with a geforce en210 (Â£20 ebuyer), and performance is much much better
<oimon> wonder if it's a driver issue or crappy card
<gord> oimon, the nvidia nvs/quadro numbers and the geforce numbers aren't equivalent, so the gefoce 210 is much newer/advanced than the old geforce 8000 based quadro/nvs card you had
<gord> nvidia likes to keep the numbers confusing
<oimon> i think there's a particular issue with the nvs290 judging by launchpad and askubuntu
<oimon> with dual monitors
<directhex> looks like the nvs 290 is a rebadged GeForce 8400 GS?
<awilkins>  So ; the HUD menu still summons for applications that do not integrate with the global menu, e.g. Eclipse, or GVim invoked from a terminal.
<directhex> on paper the geforce 210 is about 50% faster - mostly because the clock speed is about 50% faster
<popey> awilkins: yes, by design
<popey> awilkins: it should find the menus in the current focussed app and other stuff like indicators, so from anywhere you could (for example) shutdown/suspend
<awilkins> popey, I suppose it has utility for that, but it opens with the selected app icon even if it cannot service it with menus, which I suspect could cause some frustration.
<popey> awilkins: que?
<awilkins> popey, Opening the hud on, say, Eclipse, shows the Eclipse icon, even though you cannot access the Eclipse menus from the HUD == misleading
<popey> ahh
<popey> sounds like a bug
 * popey tickles gord 
<gord> sounds like a bug with eclipse!
<awilkins> I do have the misfortune of using at least 2 applications that don't integrate nicely with the global menu
<awilkins> The other being gvim-started-from-a-terminal
<awilkins> Not that I use the menus often in vim
<gord> vim kind of has its own hud ;)
<awilkins> The only real annoyance with gvim is that it spews a "WARNING **: Unable to create Ubuntu Menu Proxy: Timeout was reached" onto the terminal after a while. At least it fails immediately now, and doesn't hang around before it restores the "real" menu, which made the window jump a bit.
<popey> why would you start gvim from the terminal?
<popey> i guess if you're in a shell already
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<awilkins> popey, Aye, I like to do things like grep for lists of files and open them in gvim
<awilkins> The shell remains the killer productivity app of *nix systems
<daubers> Hello, a question someone might be able to answer for me
<daubers> What does "sticky edges" mean in the display setup window?
<awilkins> It's the "ridge" in the middle of a double monitor
<daubers> So why is it a "yes/no" question?
<DJones> daubers: http://askubuntu.com/questions/119281/what-is-the-function-of-the-sticky-edges-on-off-setting-in-displays
<DJones>  If "Sticky Edges" is enabled the mouse stopps on the edge.
<gord> firefox keeps trying to correct my spelling to german and i don't know why :(
<daubers> I see!!
<daubers> That makes more sense
<daubers> Have to say, the multi display setup is quite nice now
<daubers> (compared to what it was)
<lornajane> I'm just happy I don't have to restart X :)  xrandr lets me do everything I need
 * awilkins is still using nvidia TwinView and thus just has one ginormous display
<awilkins> Actually, visiting the display property has removed my second launch bar (because it's one ginormous display, it only has one left edge)
<lornajane> this new machine I have is a tablet, but it scales the touchpadness across your desktop ... so with a second monitor, your touches across one screen get mapped to locations across two.  Not really useful!
<popey> haha, i have seen this happen âº
<popey> awesome isnt it.
<lornajane> popey: it was slightly weird until I understood what was happening
<lornajane> it now makes sense - and I probably don't want to touch screen much anyway while it's docked
<lornajane> I'm having issues installing a virtual keyboard though, which is a bit of a shame
<lornajane> I've mislaid my sysadmin this week so I'm writing him a list
<popey> maliit is quite a nice virtual keyboard
<popey> they have some nice videos showing what it can do http://www.youtube.com/user/maliitorg/videos
<lornajane> popey: I will take a look!  I tried to install florence but after a forest of dependencies, it says it can't find something I definitely have
<czajkowski> hmmm odd bug I think but hard to reproduce.  Watching movies on laptop press pause come back to it and press play and no sound, have to restart movie to get sound back again, but doesn't happen every time
<ali1234> pulseaudio is broken yet again
<gord> i wouldn't jump to that conclusion
<gord> totem could be buggy, which wouldn't be surprising, or gstreamer
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/981629
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 981629 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "rhythmbox gets stuck at start of track" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine1.4/+bug/978293
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 978293 in wine1.4 (Ubuntu) "Wine1.4 blocks sound from pulseaudio" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> note: both regressions
<ali1234> both started happening at the same time
<ali1234> i also lose sound in flash from time to time
<ali1234> it's just like going back in time 2 years basically
 * popey makes the wibbly time travel type noises
<popey> hey, heard about Unity!? It looks _awesome_!
<popey> etc
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo: Mooo!
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> herrrro
<MooDoo> davmor2: alreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!
<davmor2> MooDoo: hows things
<brobostigon> http://www.osnews.com/story/25828/Original_Prince_of_Persia_code_found_and_released_as_open_source :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: how's the emerald isle
<MooDoo> davmor2: not to bad thank you
<czajkowski> fandiddly tastic don't you know
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> I'm here :)
<czajkowski> having an ubuntu meet up thursday in limerick
<davmor2> czajkowski: nice
<popey> czajkowski: just saw someone in the office and thought it was you
<popey> realised you're not in the uk some time later
<czajkowski> hah
 * daubers suggests someone gets some infiniband gear after saturating a 2 port 10GbE bond
<dwatkins> yeah, IB can be pretty awesome
<dwatkins> SGI use it for some of their high speed clustering stuffs.
<daubers> dwatkins: These guys are running some renderfarms, the storage is getting eaten alive.. but has bottlenecked on the network
<directhex> IB is pretty much the only HPC interconnect anyone uses anymore
<directhex> quadrics is dead (well, bought by bull for their proprietary use). dolphin died a while ago. nobody likes working with myricom so nobody buys myrinet
<directhex> whereas even companies like supermicro put IB integrated onto a mobo
 * daubers quites like myricom..... 
<directhex> ever met dave pegan?
<daubers> infiniband stuff is quicker than most of their stuff
<directhex> the myricom boss?
<daubers> directhex: No....
<directhex> he's... a stereotypical texan douchebag boss
<daubers> directhex: I keep getting 10GbE card manufacturers coming to me saying their 10GbE card is faster than everyone elses.... but they all perform the same in the end
<czajkowski> folks might be interested in this http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/sfs-2012.html
<directhex> daubers, IB isn't really about the bandwidth though, t'is all about latency
<daubers> directhex: I'm just after the bandwidth really. Latency reduction is a nice side effect
<czajkowski> A tale of two travesties - http://blog.launchpad.net/general/a-tale-of-two-travesties
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> popey: did you have trouble unplugging the mini sas connector on your proliant?
<bigcalm> My fingers hurt and its not moving
<diplo> Wat part bigcalm ?
<diplo> I've got one as well
<davmor2> bigcalm: dude you're online
<davmor2> bigcalm: has your irc proxy/server gone away?
<DJones> davmor2: I think bigcalm has gone away, not just the proxy/server
<davmor2> DJones: well that's just not sporting how am I meant to pick on him if he isn't here
<DJones> Just use memoserv :)
<popey> bigcalm: its a bit fiddly, yes
<bigcalm> davmor2: I've been doing work. My connection has been fine, just needed to concentrate :)
<bigcalm> popey: managed it in the end with a tool my dad gave me years ago. Looks like something a dentist would prod your teeth with
<popey> bigcalm: i just squeezed it
<bigcalm> popey: mine has a slightly wonky retaining tooth, so squeezing it wasn't moving it
<bigcalm> My fingers still hurt :(
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> 8gb ecc ram detected \o/
<bigcalm> Running a memtest maybe wasn't the best idea during a work day though
<bigcalm> I love how neat and compact is in that case
<bigcalm> So glad I got one
<popey> âº
<bigcalm> Right, lets see how easy it is to set up RAID 1
<syruss> does anyone know how I can force a specific drive geometry in linux?
<syruss> basically, I have a 3TB connected via usb (only way on my laptop) and it's coming up as a 768gb disk
<syruss> (as the sectors are set to 512 instead of 4096 or whatever it is..)
<syruss> works fine on windows 7
<syruss> (I'm running the beta 12.04 ubuntu.. also I checked the latest kernel logs and there's no mention of a fix for this)
<syruss> kernel.org git logs that is
<directhex> syruss, the drive works via usb in windows?
<syruss> yup
<syruss> well, the issue is it's got ext4 partitions, the fs2 driver (and the other one) don't work on win7 properly.. first one is 32bit and the other one just bluescreens if I try and mount the partition
<syruss> basically I'm trying to get the data off this hard disk that was out of one of those mybook live NAS'es that got fried in an electrical storm (the controller board was fried but the hard disk survived)
<directhex> what does parted show?
<syruss> shows it as a 768gb hdd
<syruss> in windows, drive management shows all the partitions and the correct size and sizes
<directhex> and it's a GPT-partitioned disk?
<syruss> so it must be possible
<syruss> it is GPT partitioned yes
<syruss> fdisk -l shows the correct partition information, it's just the kernel is recognising the disk as the wrong size
<syruss> so really it's not anything to do with partition types etc
<directhex> fdisk can't operate correctly on gpt
<syruss> if the kernel can't detect the right geometry for the disk then nothing else matters as it'll never work
<syruss> so the only work around I can think of is manually specifying 4096 sectors rather than 512 manually somehow...
<syruss> I've scoured google like mad but can't seem to find anything
<directhex> and /sys/block/sdX/queue/physical_block_size says 512?
<syruss> well, I found one thing, which suggested I can pass the geometry to the kernel via /proc but that was only for internal devices
<syruss> hang on directhex, just booting back out of grub
<awilkins> This page would suggest that Linux doesn't actually care about disk geometry (but fdisk thinks about it) and that if you can't mount a partition, the problem is something else
<awilkins> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Large-Disk-HOWTO-14.html
<syruss> it does say 512 yeah
 * awilkins knows not about fiddly RAID setups thoug
<syruss> well awilkins, dmesg presents the wrong disk size
<syruss> and that in turn makes fdisk, and everything else suffer as they all get confused as they think it's a 768gb disk rather than a 3tb
<syruss> and I can't write to /sys :(
<syruss> well, to that node
<awilkins> Could you pass the kernel boot params e.g. hdd=cyls,heads,sectors ?
<syruss> possibly, I'm not sure of the syntax, I was trying to find that out
 * awilkins doesn't know how to do that for USB
<syruss> ^
<oimon> anyone getting white screen when maximising chromium?
<oimon> can't reproduce every time
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> I was expecting the 12.04 installer to walk me though setting up LVM
<bigcalm> So far it looks as though it's only using 1 disk
<bigcalm> Is there a suggested lvm howto to follow, or shall I just pick one at random?
<bigcalm> Currently looking at http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/40702/how-to-manage-and-use-lvm-logical-volume-management-in-ubuntu/
<DJones> bigcalm: There is https://help.ubuntu.com/11.10/serverguide/C/advanced-installation.html Looks like teh 12.04 version hasn't been published yet
<bigcalm> DJones: thanks :)
<DJones> LVM is about 2/3rds of the way down
 * bigcalm restarts installation 
<syruss> doh, I can't see me getting the data off these disks any time soon
<syruss> *disk
<j0nr> hey folks
<j0nr> anyone heard of or use or know of www.bluelighthost.com ?
<j0nr> Their deals seem extraordinarily good or am I missing something
<ali1234> prices don't look that good to me
<ali1234> looks pretty average
<j0nr> really?
<ali1234> yeah really
<ali1234> i know of several people who use this: http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex5
<j0nr> for 15gbp p/m I get 4GB RAM, 100GB storage, 5TB bandwidth
<ali1234> they aren't constantly complaining about it, so it must be ok :)
<j0nr> I am paying that know and only get ~650MB RAM, 45GB storage
<ali1234> and are you reaching the limits?
<ali1234> i think a more likely explanation is whoever you are using now is really expensive
<j0nr> memory always seems an issue
<j0nr> but for the same money that bluelighthost seems worlds better
 * bigcalm reads up
<bigcalm> DJones: I don't think I've ever used memoserv
<DJones> bigcalm: I doubt many people do
<DJones> Having just tried it, I have 0 memo's since registering with freenode
<bigcalm> Gah!
<bigcalm> The instructions on this page don't make sense :)
<bigcalm> https://help.ubuntu.com/11.10/serverguide/C/advanced-installation.html (as pasted by DJones)
<davmor2> bigcalm: report it as a bug then dude that is the official documentation if that doesn't make sense then it should, that or it's too hard for you :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: might be the latter
<ali1234> which part doesn't make sense?
<bigcalm> Ignore me :(
<bigcalm> My mind was skipping some words and thus it didn't make sense
<davmor2> bigcalm: Repeat after me D'oh!
 * bigcalm pins this page to the back of his hand
<syruss> well this new cookie law is the first insane law to pass
<syruss> in a while
 * BigRedS demands some cookies
 * oimon is eating his son's easter egg
<BigRedS> the things you do for your kids
<oimon> i'm not even hungry
<BigRedS> haha
<diplo> BigRedS, I was eating my kids yesterday
<diplo> :D
<diplo> They had to many, honestly!
<bigcalm> diplo: canibal
<DJones> diplo: Did you BBQ the kids first?
<diplo> :D
<diplo> After what they ahve been like this weekend It was *very very* close
<diplo> :)
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting TBA #ubuntu-uk-meeting | < diplo> BigRedS, I was eating my kids yesterday
<diplo> ahem :D
<BigRedS> haha
 * DJones waits for child protection services to visit diplo 
<Gary> omnomnom
<Dave2> :o
<davmor2> popey: nicely done however I think we are gradually getting the longest topic :D
<Dave2> nah, I've seen far longer
<diplo> Ooh blimey, fire alarm just being going off
<diplo> We have a siren about 2 foot away from my desk and it's peeing down outside
<diplo> :(
<diplo> My ears are still ringing
<jpds> diplo: That's child protection incapacitating your ears.
 * diplo crys in the corner after all you bullies :'(
<davmor2> diplo: if you cry in the corner then the bullies won, don't let them win they have some bullying left I'm sure ;)
<DJones> Depends how much crying there is, if theres enough, the bullies could drown
<daubers_> Or if you could cry tears of acid
<daubers_> that would be cool
<davmor2> diplo: on second thought keep crying we need to put an end to the drought some how :D
<diplo> I'm smiling now
<mattt> cry dammit cry
<diplo> Get me some onions!
<bigcalm> "I am pleased to inform you that your HP ProLiant Microserver Promotion request has been approved and details are below for your reference."
 * bigcalm bounces
<oimon> where does u1 download my document to when running android?
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's your Â£100 back right
<bigcalm> Daviey: yep
<davmor2> bigcalm: tab fail fool
<bigcalm> davmor2: with p&p and vat, the order came to Â£250. So the micro server for Â£150 isn't too bad
<bigcalm> bigcalm: you fail with tab
<davmor2> bigcalm: nice
<diplo> bigcalm, they were quite prompt with the cheque as well
<diplo> Getting work to order me one as well
<bigcalm> diplo: within 45 days... Lets hope so ;)
<diplo> Got mine in half that I think
<davmor2_> sneaks up on bigcalm and tickles him
<diplo> I got it before I got charged interest on the Credit card anyhoo
<bigcalm> davmor2_: have you been cloning yourself?
<davmor2> bigcalm: no it was the easy way to keep my laptop version of xchat logs the same as my desktop for thursday
<bigcalm> I see
<oimon> is there an extension to improve the bookmark manager in chrom/ium?
<bigcalm> I use xmarks on all of my browsers
<oimon> i thought that shut down?
<bigcalm> Nope, it was bought
<oimon> the chromium manaer is half baked
<oimon> tbh i never actually use bookmarks after saving them
<BigRedS> I've four or five I use for work, but they're only bookmarked to guarantee they're at the top of suggestions in teh address bar
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://drtechniko.wordpress.com/2012/04/09/how-to-train-your-robot/
<popey> awww
<MartijnVdS> popey: Looks like a very cool way to teach "programmatic thinking"
<popey> yeah
<gord> hrm, third revo to upgrade from $random-animal release to current, first one to have problems :( can't get any display out of it
<gord> x just gives up
<popey> gord: i had that on my nvidia desktop
<popey> i can manually start lightdm and it works
<popey> but on boot it doesn't
<bigcalm> My Revo has been powered down for the last 48 hours. This is the longest rest its had since I bought it
<bigcalm> Will wait until 12.04 is 'ready' before putting it on there for my parents
<popey> pffft
<popey> wuss
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> Well, considering that it'll have server rather than gui on it, doesn't really matter
<bigcalm> Or shall I put X on it? Och, I dunno now
<SuperEngineer> o/
<SuperEngineer> this morning's darn 12.04 update completely broke cairo dock
<bigcalm> It'll only be in their dumping spare room, without a monitor
<bigcalm> 12.04 is not to be trusted!
 * SuperEngineer kisses 10.04 partition... [&no double entendre meant!]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: suuure
<gord> popey, seems to be what i'm having, but it was trying to boot into gdm so maybe it was just that
<gord> can't get audio out of it now, not through its audio jacks, hdmi or through my little usb -> 3.5mm jack device
<bigcalm> I should move the server over to the UPS power block. Grumble sticks
<Daviey> bigcalm: hey, wassup?
<bigcalm> Daviey: tab failure, but it's good to see you're still alive :)
 * AlanBell wonders if Daviey is going to UDS
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Adopt An ISO - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/17/adopt-an-iso/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Severed Fifth Show The Weekend Before UDS - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/17/severed-fifth-show-the-weekend-before-uds/
<Myrtti> I have no words ;___; been fighting with CMSMS for a day now and thought that there was something wrong with my skills or something, and it turns out that it just didn't like the loooooooonnnngggg CSS' files of Bootstrap and just cut them off.
<bigcalm> Myrtti: that's a shame :( I've spent a lot of time with CMSMS, but not recently. Hope the project is going well
<Daviey> AlanBell: I am going to UDS.
<Daviey> AlanBell: Probably leaving on Thurs tho.
 * Daviey is currently in SF.
 * czajkowski hugs AlanBell 
<czajkowski> Daviey: nice weather?
<bigcalm> Daviey: and will you be coming to oggcamp?
<Daviey> czajkowski: not bad
<Daviey> bigcalm: maybe.
<bigcalm> \o/
<SuperEngineer> hmmm 12.04 is worth using again... Cairo dock now fixed :)
<bigcalm> I wonder if jockey is fixed yet
<bigcalm> There was an update
<bigcalm> It didn't work
<bigcalm> Poop
<popey> pip pip
<popey> choo choo also
<bigcalm> That's a long day to be just going home
<popey> indeed
 * bigcalm heads off to Tesco - best time of day to do shopping
<popey> also.. beer \o/
<bigcalm> mmmm beer
<StevenR> oo. beer. hmmm.
<jussi> bigcalm: no way, 2am is the best time
<SuperEngineer> ah! now there's a goo idea... beer [& whoopee - one bottle left]
<bigcalm> jussi: not so much, I'm asleep at 2am
<SuperEngineer> cheers folks
<SuperEngineer> Just realised: 12.04 doesn't appear to offer me a hibernate option anywhere
<AlanBell> no Kubuntu CDs this time :(
<AlanBell> not sure what the chickens are going to do
<czajkowski> server :)
<AlanBell> yeah, I think it will have to be, but they will miss the GUI
<Myrtti> SuperEngineer: I thought I read from somewhere that they've taken it off
<SuperEngineer> Myrtti, that would account for that ne then!  thanks
<Myrtti> AIUI, I can't even hibernate as I've got random key encrypted swap
<mgdm> anyone got a handy guide to updating a debian package to a newer release of the upstream code?
<popey> pip pip
<mgdm> (also, 'ello :)
<ali1234> i wish i could post reaction faces on g+
<ali1234> i think this would significantly improve the experience
<popey> reaction to ?
<ali1234> reaction to op of course
<ali1234> you can't post links or images in replies
<popey> oh i see
<mgdm> OK, so that builds
 * mgdm considers uploading it somewhere
 * bigcalm pokes mc.net
<popey> Azelphur: do you run garrysmod on linux?
<Azelphur> popey: I've done it before but don't do it regularly
<popey> how well does it run - e.g. on a Linux VPS?
<Azelphur> are you talking about the server or the client?
<popey> server
<Azelphur> afaik garry is really bad at maintaining the Linux server
<Azelphur> I remember having to run it under wine
<popey> so i hear
<popey> right, thats what i thought
<Azelphur> popey: It did run ok under wine from what I could see though, I only used it when debugging a issue in SourceIRC that was specific to gmod
<bigcalm> Night peeps :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-18
<MooDoo> mornign all
<DJones> Morning MooDoo
<popey> morning
<MooDoo> morning popey
<MartijnVdS> http://www.solid-run.com/products/cubox
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<czajkowski> morning
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<MooDoo> morning
<oimon> cheese does not work at all on precise yet :-\
<gord> does work here, sure its not your webcam?
<oimon> crashed and bug reporter said it was a known bug, but didn't tell me the bug num
<oimon> just doing the latset dist-upgrade
<czajkowski> working fine here also
<oimon> works via gstreamer-properties
<oimon> nope, still segfaults
<diplo> Morningall
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<oimon> i guess i'm the only one who gets issues with chromium often showing a blank white page when maximised
<czajkowski> I've 3 windows open all mazimised
<czajkowski> all working
<czajkowski> maximised
<czajkowski> oimon: what else are you doing ?
<AlanBell> popey: you know that square shadow thing you had in thunderbird the other day which should have been a middle click scrolly thing? I have that now.
<Laney> I dropped one of my earphones in me cuppa :(
<AlanBell> oimon: Bug 610600 perhaps
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 610600 in OEM Priority Project "Serious video performance regression in cheese (2.28.1->2.30.1)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610600
<popey> Laney: I've done that before
<czajkowski> Laney: great start to the day you ruined your cuppa!
<AlanBell> oimon: actually probably not, just someone commented on that recently
<popey> 09:36:51 < oimon> crashed and bug reporter said it was a known bug, but didn't tell me the bug num
<Laney> actually this was yesterday - I left them overnight to dry out but the sound is weird out of that ear now :(
<popey> should open the bug in your default browser
<AlanBell> Laney: try dipping the ear in tea to see if that helps
<Laney> mmm wax
<bigcalm> Hazar!
<DJones> I'm sure I just saw you on another network :)
<bigcalm> Lies
<bigcalm> Different machine as well :|
<oimon> popey, hmm it didn't do that. i'm gonna reboot and try cheese again cos i've now updated nvidia driver and kernel
<bigcalm> I need to work out connecting to more than one network with the same irssi instance
<popey> bigcalm:  /connect irc.foobar.com
<DJones> I've just done that myself, was quicker to manually edit it config file
<bigcalm> popey: won't that drop this connection?
<popey> then in the status window you can ctrl+x to switch between the networks
<popey> no
<bigcalm> Okie
<popey>  /server will âº
<bigcalm> Well, it's the config file I'll need to edit as irssi is just a proxy for me
<popey> oh
<bigcalm> If I connect in irssi and save the config, will I auto connect the next time irssi is run?
<popey> how do you configure irssi as a proxy?
<bigcalm> http://irssi.org/documentation/proxy
<popey> ta
<bigcalm> :)
<Laney> you can do /join -network #channel too
<oimon> cheese works now :D
<oimon> after reboot
<oimon> and dist-upgrade
<popey> fancy that
<oimon> cheese binary didn't change...
<oimon> i only installed it yesterday
 * oimon goes looking for a gimp PPA for single window mode
<MooDoo> oimon: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/08/gimp-2-7-3-released-working-single-window-mode-layer-groups/
<popey> ooh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGoU90bdUC8
<bigcalm> popey: almost makes me want to use mythtv again
<oimon> MooDoo, get a 404 on 12.04 with that ppa
<bigcalm> I was about to update 10.04 on my revo. Then I realised that I'd be wiping it come the 27th
<bigcalm> Silly bigcalm
<MooDoo> oimon: pagh!
<MooDoo> pah!
<popey> oimon: you can see what releases a ppa supports before you add it
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~matthaeus123/+archive/mrw-gimp-svn
<popey> no precise packages in there
<oimon> yeah, found another ppa now
<bigcalm> popey: do you have skype make noises when people go on/offline?
<popey> no, i disable it
<bigcalm> Ah
<popey> its incredibly annoying
<popey> i dont care who/when people are online/offline
<bigcalm> I was going to comment that it appears to interrupt spotify's playback
<popey> i think i figured out how to save spotify tracks to disk as ogg/mp3/wav files
<oimon> :-O
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2*
<popey> wondering if that's against the AUP
 * popey checks
<davmor2> morning bigcalm and all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> czajkowski: proddity proddity poddity prod
<oimon> saw a nice gimp tutorial the other day from Mairin (fedora lady)
<czajkowski> herro herro herro
<bigcalm> Goodish morning czajkowski
<diplo> popey, that torc software looked really good
<davmor2> oimon: you're not making the gimp sound any family friendlier by adding fedora lady to that sentence :D
<bigcalm> That feels better. Having somewhere to let off steam
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah but mairin rocks :D
<oimon> got the single window mode davmor2 but struggling to move the toolbox to the left side
<davmor2> MooDoo: She does, and her writing on blogs etc is really well done too
<MooDoo> davmor2: i can't really knock fedora people :D
<oimon> except that miss moneypenny lady on superscrimpers programme
<davmor2> MooDoo: mind you mhall119 is getting a lot better too which is good to see http://mhall119.com/2012/04/ubuntu-12-04-is-for-app-developers/
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I have couple of friend now who are redhat employees we all josh that the others picked the wrong os but that is about as far as the discussion on oses go the rest is talking about stuff in the linux system
<oimon> http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2012/04/13/gimp-2-7-for-photoshop-expatriates/
<oimon> that's the vid i was referring to
<oimon> don't have sound on my pc atm but can't work out how the tool selection gets to be on the left
<MooDoo> davmor2: cool
<oimon> aha, managed to fudge it by unselecting and reselecting single win mode
<ali1234> suggesting gimp as a replacement for photoshop is getting embarrasing
<MooDoo> +1 ali1234
<oimon> depends what you are doing
<oimon> it's a free replacement for my needs
<MooDoo> oimon: content aware fill ;)
<gord> really does, i find gimp works well for me, its a good replacement for photoshop in my circumstances
<oimon> s/replacement/alternative
<gord> MooDoo, gimp has done that for yeeeears, way before photoshop :)
<oimon> the single window setup need a bit more work , but managed to fudge it a bit
<ali1234> yeah, the place where gimp can't match photoshop is in layer grouping and adjustment layers
<ali1234> and vector layers
<ali1234> all of which can be combined
<ali1234> gimp doesn't even have groups and vectors and i don't remember seeing adjustment layers
<ali1234> basically gimp serves as a replacement for paintshop pro - or it would if the UI wasn't so spectacularly bad
<MooDoo> well it's free, so you can't really complain
<ali1234> yes i can
<ali1234> that is no excuse
<ali1234> and besides, i'm only complaining about people who claim gimp can replace photoshop
<MooDoo> if you don't like it, move to windows and buy photoshop, or contribute to the code to make it better :p
<MooDoo> ali1234: i know i'm teasing
<ali1234> yeah guess which one i did
<oimon> isn't pinta a replacement for psp?
<oimon> or paint.net
<oimon> wine?
<ali1234> paint.net is a replacement for mspaint :)
<xplora1a> ali1234: MooDoo: The gimp UI is not BAD, it is diffrent to photoshop, if you are a photoshop user expect to invest a significant amout of time in learning how to use a new tool. Equivalent to the amoubnt of time spent learning how to use photoshop.
<ali1234> psp is roughly as good as gimp now, it's change a lot
<davmor2> ali1234: gimp was only ever meant to be a paintshop pro look-a-like when it was created photoshop was not the one to beat :D
<ali1234> it has simple layers filter etc
<MooDoo> xplora1a: yup your right, and funnily enough i'm doing a talk about gimp to our local camera club :)
<davmor2> how things change
<ali1234> the gimp UI *is* bad
<ali1234> it's especially bad when used with unity
<ali1234> single window mode should help then... when it's released
<oimon> 2.8 RC1 is out
<oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/2kDmYwKd4DibDtZeBORyO3
<ali1234> so 12.10 then...
<popey> \o/ 12.10
<popey> :D
<oimon> or 12.04 if you care
<ali1234> i tried to install gimp ppa once, it broke gimp completely
<oimon> WFM
<ali1234> i got mismatch between some library versions, gimp crashed on startup
<davmor2> 12.10 baby yeah!
<oimon> why is reddit red today?
<oimon> it's almost time to switch to 12.10 alpha anyway...
<ali1234> why do i have a reddit account?
<ali1234> i don't remember making it
<oimon> i make a new one every time i want to do some trolling
<ali1234> i have zero activity... weird
<davmor2> ali1234: it might be that you commented on something I'm pretty sure that's how I wound up with one
<oimon> the ubuntu subreddit is a bunch of unity haters interspersed with canonical employees
<ali1234> that goes without saying
<oimon> it's where i go to make myself feel that my opinions are moderate, compared to the rabid parroting
<oimon> made me laugh when kids went crazy about mono icons, because they had been told mono is evil
<JohnRobert> does anyone know where I can get a decent usb3 external hard disk case thingi? I've looked on ebuyer etc but apprently there are issues with the controllers they use when it comes to big files/hard disks
<directhex> JohnRobert, i just bought an entire usb3 disk. decided it was worth more to me to not need separate power than to get size or DIY-convenience
<directhex> especially with the cost of disks these days
<JohnRobert> hmm
<ali1234> right after the spike in prices, stuff like NAS units and enclosures with included drives were actually cheaper than buying the bare drives
<directhex> yep
<ali1234> i guess because they sit on the shelf longer
<directhex> currently they're ~identical
<ali1234> yeah
<JohnRobert> heh
<directhex> certainly from big-box stores
<ali1234> not checked recently but i'd guess they still are economical
<JohnRobert> well, basically I'm trying to get data off my 3tb hdd that was in a mybook live NAS (which died in a lightning storm)
<ali1234> are they SATA?
<directhex> hm. 3T. might get some odd behaviour from an off the shelf usb controller
<JohnRobert> I only have two laptops so I can't hook it up directly... unless of course there's a 3.5" -> 2.5" sata thingi
<directhex> JohnRobert, 2.5 and 3.5" sata have the same connectors
<JohnRobert> maybe that's the cheapest solution
<JohnRobert> yeah, but I need some kind of connector or something
<directhex> extension cables!
<JohnRobert> as you can't put a 3.5" hdd in many laptops
<JohnRobert> :p
<ali1234> http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=USB+to+SATA&oe=utf-8&gl=uk&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=13299711359030455310&sa=X&ei=t5-OT6_hAce68gP78fygCw&ved=0CJEBEPICMAU
<ali1234> maybe something like that
<ali1234> (you don't actually need a full enclosure)
<JohnRobert> http://www.ebuyer.com/184677-startech-slimline-sata-extension-cable-0-5m-slsata20ext
<JohnRobert> ?
<JohnRobert> then again, I'd also like to use the drive
<directhex> my desktop, conveniently, has sata connectors on the back.
<directhex> well, that's a lie. it has a molex power connector, and two unpowered esata connectors - and was supplied with a molex to double sata power cable, and two esata to sata cables
<directhex> the net result is the same
<ali1234> has anyone ever tried one of those usb to parallel printer cables?
<ali1234> i heard they're not really real parallel ports
<JohnRobert> heh
<directhex> ali1234, i've only done it with serial.
<JohnRobert> well I'm stumped as to what to get
<JohnRobert> shame raspberry pi doesn't have usb3 and gigabit and is available... that woulda been fun
<ali1234> even if it had those interfaces it would be incapable of using them fully
<bigcalm> You think it's too limiting in its current state?
<ali1234> it's far too slow for that
<JohnRobert> hmm
<JohnRobert> I see your point
<JohnRobert> I had a wd mybook world ed.. it was insanely slow even though it was gigabit
<JohnRobert> the cpu just couldn't do anything very fast
<ali1234> is there a online auction site like ebay that uses google checkout?
<bigcalm> popey: do you recall who wrote a silly script to compare the performance from one machine to another. The output was measured in cm
<oimon> an application has an icon in the dash, but disappears if you drag it to the launcher, leaving a blank square.
<oimon> is that due to a missing .desktop file or something?
<bigcalm> I have reached 5,555 tweets. I can tweet no more :(
<oimon> you have to pay for  pro account now
<bigcalm> Maybe I'll allow myself another 123 tweets
<oimon> surely twitter can monetize itself by requiring a paid pro account for those with 1000 followers or more
<bigcalm> Would it make much money?
<bigcalm> I'm sure average users have far fewer than even 500 followers
<bigcalm> I have 143 followers, a lot of bots and weirdos
<DJones> oimon: I don't think that would work, you could get 1500 spammers/bots following you making you have to pay for the pro account
<JohnRobert> glah, it's almost worth buying a pc to do this
<bigcalm> JohnRobert: to do what?
<oimon> you can block people
<bigcalm> Maybe those who follow too many should have to pay :)
<DJones> oimon: I do that with people I don't recognise or look like spammers just wanting people to auto-follow them
<oimon> even if 2% of twitter people had >1000 followers it would be an income stream
<DJones> bigcalm: I would agree with that idea, maybe a sliding scale, follow < 1000, its free, 1000-10000 Â£x, 10000+ Â£xxxxxxxx
<oimon> 700 people have > 1m folllowers
<popey> is 1000 a lot?
<ali1234> they should just charge 5p per tweet
<oimon> 1000 is enough to pay for a pro account imo
<bigcalm> popey: a lot to follow or follow you?
<popey> i dunno
<popey> i actually dunno how many people i follow or follow me
 * popey looks
<JohnRobert> anyone know of a good way of getting sed to work recursively on files *.php ?
<popey> "some"
<bigcalm> popey: you're popular though :)
<AlanBell> 1896 :)
<popey> s/popular/followed by a lot of people/
<bigcalm> Following 1379?
<popey> there's a big difference
<AlanBell> in the grand scheme of things popey isn't that popular
<popey> indeed
<oimon> s/people/twitter accounts
<ali1234> JohnRobert: find -iname '*.php' --exec sed -i -e 'whatever' {}  \;
<AlanBell> that is barely a schoolfull of people
<ali1234> check syntax though
<oimon> is that the unit of measuremnet now?
<JohnRobert> ah right, use find
<JohnRobert> makes sense
<JohnRobert> :)
<JohnRobert> ta
<oimon> for file in `ls *.php` do ...  done
<ali1234> not recursive
<oimon> ah missed that
<ali1234> also will break if anything has funny characters in the name
<ali1234> like space
<oimon> i bow to the more efficient solution
<BigRedS> oimon: even for yours you don't need `ls *.php`
<Laney> yeah you don't need to use ls there
<popey> bigcalm: when you use irssi as a proxy does it show up when you connect/disconnect?
<BigRedS> you could've done    for file in *.php    for the same effect
<ali1234> you could have just done sed ... *.php too
<BigRedS> oh yeah
<oimon> it's like asking directions to basingstoke in here
<bigcalm> popey: it shows in irssi's status screen when a client connects/disconnects
<oimon> 10 solutions that work fine
<BigRedS> well, most only got you to the first junction
<oimon> one will take longer, one is cheaper..
<ali1234> actually only the ones i gave work fine
<BigRedS> it's only the find that actually went all the way to the solution
<ali1234> iterating across filenames using the shell always explodes when you least expect it
<BigRedS> shell generally does what you don't expect
<DJones> bigcalm: Any news on your upgrade to ICS on your xoom yet?
<bigcalm> DJones: nothing for the UK yet
<bigcalm> davmor2 found out that we should see it in Q2
<bigcalm> Though what their definition of Q2 is...
<davmor2> but as bigcalm pointed out is that the financial q2 or calendar q2
 * AlanBell sighs at bug 949445. Looks like Unity 2d is going to be released with broken HUD as well as Unity 3d.
<DJones> Thats easy to answer, whichever is the later
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 949445 in unity-2d "HUD is silent to screen readers" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/949445
<bigcalm> And a 3 month window at that
<JohnRobert> find -iname '*.php' -exec "sed -i \"s/form_submit('submit', 'Continue');/form_submit(array('name' => 'submit', 'value' => 'Contact us', 'class' => 'continue'));/g\"" {}  \; can anyone tell me why the syntax for this is wrong? I'm getting a lot of 'no such file or directory' errors...
<ali1234> oh jeez
<ali1234> put the regexp into a file
<DJones> bigcalm: I've been quite impressed with it, seems nice and stable and easy to use
<JohnRobert> there is no regexp, it's just a simple search/replace
<JohnRobert> probably escaped incorrectly or something
<BigRedS> that *is* a regexp
<ali1234> it looks like you have unmatched quotes
<bigcalm> DJones: I think I'll have ICS on a phone before I see it on a tablet :)
<bigcalm> Samsung are revealing their new Galaxy product(s) on 3rd May
<bigcalm> Everybody thinks this will be the S3, I'm hoping so anyway
<JohnRobert> I have an SGS
<JohnRobert> the IO performance is horrible.
<DJones> bigcalm: That wouldn't surprise me, I notied yesterday that my Desire HD is due to be upgraded to ICS, although probably some time after your Xoom gets upgraded
<BigRedS> I have a SGS2. It's a good deal better than my SGS was
<DJones> I'm due to upgrade until October, so plenty of time for new phones to come out, although I may stick with the current phone but switch to giffgaff for the unlimited broadband to use with the tablet
<bigcalm> popey: ping
<popey> hmm, nope
<bigcalm> Nope?
<jpds> bigcalm: popey says no.
<popey> ooh, it wobbles
<popey> and goes blue
<popey> like it
<bigcalm> Hehe
<gord> is this a new revision of mr blobby?
<czajkowski> not sure if we're talking about minecraft
<czajkowski> so hard to know
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> When did minecraft get mentioned?
<czajkowski> it didnt
<czajkowski> but it could be as it's hard to know sometimes
<bigcalm> Though one can always assume that minecraft should be mentioned ;)
<MartijnVdS> MEINkraft?
<bigcalm> Lunch!
<JohnRobert> way ahead of you.
<bigcalm> Chippy!
<popey> ooh
<popey> alt-tab-raises-all-windows-of-an-app bug seems fixed here
<popey> that is _awesome_
<Laney> what do you get now?
<popey> the right window
<popey> i.e. not all of them raised
<popey> makes it easier to switch between one full screen window and one restored window
<popey> e.g. browser full screen and a zillion terminals open
<popey> switch between browser and one terminal
<popey> not raising them all
<Laney> what does the switcher show?
<Laney> one icon per app, but it just raises the last window?
<Laney> alt-` to switch between windows of an app?
<oimon> how does unity choose between the window to switch to when multiple windows are open on other desktops? last one used?
<oimon> i.e. i'm on desktop 1, open terminal on desktops 2 and 3, click the terminal and it switches to one
<Laney> http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Xmonad/Using_xmonad_in_Unity_2D
 * Laney wants to try this
<popey> Laney: try it
<Laney> :(
<popey> easier than me explaining it
<Laney> that would require me cycling 3 miles :P
<Laney> never mind.
<mgdm> Laney: I considered that, but I went for Cinnamon instead
<oimon> mgdm, i've tried cinnamon and thought it was OK, but then i realsed that gnome-panel has been restored to 12.04 with all the features, and is gtk3 , so allows gtk3 themes.
<Laney> needs moar tiling
<Laney> or do you mean cinnamon with xmonad?
<oimon> however, after giving up on unity many times, this week is the longest i've used it without getting really annoyed
<AlanBell> popey: really pleased that alt-tab is fixed, I am updating now :)
<AlanBell> anyone got a raspberry pi yet?
<popey> not me
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/u/0/111049168280159033135
<oimon> while i like the idea, the hype and excitement on the internet has been relentless
<oimon> considering the linksys slug has been out for years , and many won't actually plug in the video
<ali1234> if you can afford it, get a beagle board instead
<ali1234> or beagle bone if you don't want video
<oimon> if you can afford it, then cotton candy
<ali1234> support the company that produces the most open hardware
<diplo> I think that cost is probably the biggest factor ali1234
<oimon> Cotton Candy will be available in Q1 2012 in limited quantities for developers.  Consumer devices are anticipated to hit the market in Q3 2012
<diplo> I've wanted a arduino/beagle board for ages
<diplo> But cost for me has been the hardest thing
<ali1234> arduino is silly priced
<ali1234> you can build your own for $10
<diplo> As soon as funds are better I probably will get myself one
<diplo> But with all the extras to do anything fun it starts costing
<ali1234> just buy some avr chips and protoboard
<diplo> Or I was looking at the wrong places last month
<ali1234> you can do a lot more with that
<ali1234> avr is so easy to work with
<mgdm> Laney: no xmonad
<ali1234> http://www.oomlout.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=211
<oimon> unity launcher shows 1 new message on thunderbird, but cannot find it? bug?
<ali1234> programmer: http://files.myopera.com/CrazyTerabyte/atmega8/AVR-dapa.png
<gord> bigcalm, davmor2 - no thingy for me tomorrow, need to be at my house for the gas man
<popey> oimon: does the messaging menu tell you where it is?
<diplo> ali1234, have you built anything arduino based?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> and i've built things with raw AVR too
<ali1234> i prefer raw AVR
<ali1234> arduino libraries are slow and bloated
<ali1234> which isn't good on a 16Mhz chip with 8kb ram
<davmor2> gord no say it aint so
<oimon> popey, well done :) i never looks on that messaging menu
<oimon> now to discover how to set it to only tell me about inbox mail rather than filtered mail
<bigcalm> mrevell: I know you aren't able to go to the happy hour, but are you going to the work place day tomorrow?
<oimon> sticky edges started working today  - do many people leave this switched on?
<ali1234> which sticky edges?
<oimon> unity desktop sticky edges
<bigcalm> Who killed facebook? Error 500 :D
<ali1234> you mean multimonitor?
<oimon> wfm bigcalm
<ali1234> reminds me, i need to report a bug about that
<bigcalm> oimon: maybe it's telling me to get some damn work done
<oimon> ali1234, yes, with multimonitor
<ali1234> i turn down sensitivity to the absolute minimum
<oimon> sticky edges makes your mouse stick when moving between screens
<oimon> i think the behaviour is bizarre
<ali1234> it is really bizarre
<oimon> unless doing a presentation
<oimon> i tend to think of my 2 monitors as one big one
<andylockran> howdy all
<andylockran> how goes things?
<ali1234> the logical thing to do would be to put the launcher on the right side of the right monitor
<ali1234> but that would mean going back on the decision to not let you configure where the launcher is
<ali1234> so instead it had to go on the middle
<oimon> ali1234, i'm talking about just moving the mouse across screens, not exposing the launcher - but is that why it's an option?
<ali1234> which combined with push to reveal means you need to push against the middle of the screen
<ali1234> yes it only exists in order to reveal the launcher
<oimon> i have only 1 launcher , so didn't realise the issue
<ali1234> if you switch to always visible or turn off the second launcher it is turned off
<ali1234> it's supposed to be anyway
<oimon> turn off -able
<ali1234> maybe it's a bug
<ali1234> it's been enabled for weeks now
<ali1234> so either you don't update much or regression
<oimon> it's been enabled but not working on my pc until today. i turned it off
<oimon> how do i choose the icon that appears in the launcher?
<ali1234> hmm where do i report design bugs again?
<ali1234> "the" icon?
<oimon> .desktop file has a line "Icon=gimp", which isn't working, so i want to find out what "gimp" means.
<ali1234> icons have a mapping
<ali1234> so that icon sets can specify an icon for a specific program
<ali1234> i think anyway
<ali1234> maybe it doesn't mean anything and that's why it doesn't work?
<ali1234> there is no longer a .desktop editor in ubuntu afaik
<oimon> do you know which file the mappings live in?
<ali1234> so you just have to specify path to icon you want in text editor
<oimon> hmm...edited .desktop file, no change
<awilkins> Stupid idea number of the day : 3-dimensional workspace array
<ali1234> you have to restart unity for changes to take effect because it doesn't properly support ... whatever is supposed to update that stuff
<oimon> wow
<oimon> fail
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> this is what happens when you reinvent the wheel
<ali1234> also beware that you might have multiple .desktop files around the place
<ali1234> there's no way to tell them apart in unity... no way to know which one it is using
<oimon> there must be a way
<awilkins> I find a lot of the tasks I do are large enough to spread out across multiple workspaces ; but sometimes I want multiple tasks ; ergo, I want to be able to switch left, right, up down, for one task, and Z+1, Z-1 for switching to the workspaces for another task
<ali1234> well i suppose you could patch the code and add debugging printfs
<awilkins> It's either that or 4 monitors, I suppose
<ali1234> or read the code and understand what ordering it uses and then figure it out fromt hat
<ali1234> awilkins: you want KDE activities then
<awilkins> ali1234, Hmm, I shall have a look at that
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Publishing a folder with Ubuntu One - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/04/18/publishing-a-folder-with-ubuntu-one
<ali1234> awilkins: https://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/564826-kde4-activities-for-fast-efficient-workflow
<awilkins> Ta
<awilkins> Does installing KDE concurrently with Unity still pollute all the menus in both environments with links from the other?
<ali1234> yes
 * awilkins resolves to try this in a VM
<ali1234> and it always will
<ali1234> KDE sucks in a VM, it needs decent graphics (like everything these days)
<awilkins> OK, LiveUSB then
<oimon> strange thing is that the icon appears in dash, but after dragging to launcher, it goes.
<ali1234> oimon: sounds like a bug
<oimon> guess what, it's the gimp i installed from ppa :-\
<ali1234> huh
<ali1234> what did i say about gimp ppa earlier?
<Laney> PPA package in being pants shocker
<Laney> and you trust these people with root on your system ...
<ali1234> i'd guess it's a conflict between two .desktop files then
<oimon> it's strange cos the gimp icons are in /usr/share/icons
<oimon> there's "only" 2 desktop files, and they are OK. (one is in app-install directory, whatever that is)
<ali1234> yeah, i don't think unity likes it if you have two "identical" .desktop files
<oimon> what's the default theme called?
<oimon> humanity?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it's called ... radiance and ambiance
<oimon> ambiance
<awilkins> Ambiance
<ali1234> one is light the other is dark
<ali1234> can't remember which is which
<popey> radiance is light
<awilkins> Radiance is the Apple wannabe one :-
<oimon> ah, theme is irrelevant because i need icon set
<ali1234> yeah
<oimon> type icons in search bar for system settings. :(
<oimon> fail
<ali1234> where have all the unity design bugs gone?
<oimon> is there still a gui to choose icons?
<ali1234> no
<popey> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/design/
<popey> there
<ali1234> well, you can switch to gnome and then do it that way
<oimon> ah maybe gnome tweak
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/984941
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 984941 in Ayatana Design "no reason to sticky the edge when moving from left screen to right screen" [Undecided,New]
<daubers> lo
<awilkins> Hmm ; potential reason to sticky the edge - snapping a window against the right edge of the left monitor
<SuperEngineer> hiyaz all
<awilkins> Although personally I have teh stickies off / turned down as much as possible
<ali1234> awilkins: you could do that before there were sticky edges
<ali1234> it's handled by something completely different
<awilkins> ali1234, Oh you can do it, the argument I'm making is that you could claim that the sticky makes it easier
<ali1234> the guides appear before you even touch the edge
<awilkins> But again, I hate the stickies, I'm just naturally contrary
<SuperEngineer> got a "minor" prob with 12.04 - no system [alert] sounds - all sounds in every respect check ok... but what package to report the bug under?  [I know it's ok for others - it's down to hardware v. s/ware but... if all works everywhere else - that's a bug.
<popey> i wonder if you're missing a package
<popey> the one with the audio packages in
<popey> s/packages/files/
<popey> SuperEngineer: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<popey> does that install anything?
<bigcalm> Note the ^
<oimon> what does the ^ do
<bigcalm> Grab missing bits, I think
<popey> installs the task
<popey> which pulls in whatever that task installs
<oimon> ah , logged in and out and got my gimp icon
<oimon> not sure if it's anything i did or would have been there anyway
<oimon> not really happy with the amount of reboots and logouts required after installing apps this week...
<oimon> http://popcon.ubuntu.com/main/index.html looks a bit broke
<SuperEngineer> popey: thanks [been away prepping ose bag - will try that
<SuperEngineer> signing off to switch to 12.04 & try popey 's suggestion
<SuperEngineer> bbs
<SuperEngineer> popey, buggah! "0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded."
<mrevell> bigcalm, PLanning to be there for the morning and to leave around lunch time. That way I get a lift in and out, plus my Round Table thing in the evening starts at 6.30, so I need to be back early-ish.
<SuperEngineer> ..so back to - what package is [not] providing desktop sounds even when they are there [and work as played a sound]
<SuperEngineer> *as a sound
<bigcalm> mrevell: phew. I was worried it would be just me and davmor2 ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: no alex is goning to be there all day too
<mrevell> bigcalm, That *would* be disastrous. I'm really disappointed to miss the Ubuntu hour :(
<bigcalm> mrevell: hopefully there will be others some day
<mrevell> bigcalm, I suppose it's just down to us to organise them, yeah? Nothing more formal than that?
<bigcalm> mrevell: spot on
<mrevell> top notch
<bigcalm> mrevell: though I think it's generally 1 per month, so it'll be elsewhere in the country next month
<mrevell> Oh right
<SuperEngineer> while I'm on 12.04 - anyone here get my little joke...http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrspring/7090416685/
<popey> SuperEngineer: ubuntu-sounds is the theme
<popey> SuperEngineer: have a look in the sound menu at the bottom, sound effects tab..
<popey> is it that?
<bigcalm> mrevell: AlanBell can tell you more about the Happy Hour idea :)
<mrevell> bigcalm, I'll look it up, rather than be lazy :)
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> Love Island by Fatboy Slim has got my bouncing in my chair today
<bigcalm> *bounce* *bounce*
<SuperEngineer> popey, been there done that weeks ago - & rechecked after each update - still enabled at full volume - all other btw sounds work - the alert sounds are definitley there in correct place & play when asked to in any relevant app
<directhex> don;t be shocked by the tone of my bounce?
<popey> SuperEngineer: what exactly are you missing?
<Myrtti> hum, I think I finally got the template I wanted on the CMSMS site I launched up but now I don't know what I'm supposed to do with the site.
<Myrtti> still haven't decided if we're going to use CMSMS or if dsample will code his own...
<bigcalm> Myrtti: you don't know what content to add or you don't know how to use the CMS?
<SuperEngineer> popey, I am now not gettg *any* alert sounds whatsoever.  I *used to get only the system ready sound only [no other alert sounds though]... *all* [including the 1 working "system ready" have stopped * others have never "worked".
<bigcalm> Ah
<Myrtti> I know how to use it, I just don't know if we'll use it
<SuperEngineer> Settings checked & tested in so many many ways
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I hope your efforts haven't been waisted :)
<bigcalm> Myrtti: at least you're now a little wiser, if a little greyer :S
<Myrtti> bigcalm: well I learnt things
<bigcalm> Limitations mostly
<Myrtti> yup
<Myrtti> anyway
<Myrtti> http://koti.kapsi.fi/~myrtti/wedding/ :-)
 * bigcalm giggles at Chromium
<bigcalm> This page is in [Italian] Would you like to translate it? [Translate] [Note]
<Myrtti> yeah, it is funny
<bigcalm> "Donec id elit does not make me pregnant at eget metus."
<bigcalm> Hehehe
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I suggest enabling "pretty urls"
<Myrtti> bigcalm: yeah, I just didn't bother since I don't know if it'll be used in the end
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
 * bigcalm sits on his hands for a while
<SuperEngineer> popey, hmmm... idea... been trying 1204 since beta1 & fully updating.  Maybe worth a complete reinstall [assume beta2 iso still available?]
<popey> thats a brute force nuclear weapon to crack a nut
<oimon> sounds are overrated ...
<popey> and wont tell you why it's broken
<SuperEngineer> oimon, I agree but new converters with similar hardware may not
<Myrtti> bigcalm: that's why the URL is what it is too, I could have easily put it under myrtti.fi but meh. We haven't decided if we're having a dedicated domain. First World Geek problems.
<bigcalm> :D
<popey> SuperEngineer: askubuntu.com âº
<Myrtti> but now that the CSS files are working fine, the resizing works fine
<Myrtti> so it works great on mobile phones too
<SuperEngineer> popey, reportabug.com âº
<popey> I'm serious
<popey> report the problem at askubuntu and see what you get
<SuperEngineer> popey, sorry thought you were jesting! ok - will do
 * popey wonders where his default session is stored
<popey> not the system one in lightdm.conf
<popey> but the user specific one
<czajkowski> anyone any idea why Jacob is spamming the list?
<popey> he has an auto away message it looks
<popey> he's not spamming
<xr1rr> every time I turn on my computer I got the following message: System program problem detected.. do I want to report
<xr1rr> with two buttons; Cancel or report problem
<xr1rr> anyone know why this is.. even after updating it is still there
<popey> xr1rr: you running 12.04?
<xr1rr> yes
<popey> are there files in /var/crash ?
<xr1rr> one file
<popey> what's it called?
<xr1rr> _usr_sbin_aptd.0.crash
<popey> xr1rr: what happens if you click 'report problem' ?
<xr1rr> asks for root password
<xr1rr> I guess thats normal
<popey> your password, not root
<xr1rr> but I have just been pressing cancel but get restart it is there again
<xr1rr> each*
<popey> right.
<popey> so its saying there was a problem and you can report it to the project
<popey> czajkowski: / ali1234 i put cyberjacob on moderation
<xr1rr> yes
<bigcalm> "Reminder: Mum's birthday @ Sun 29 Apr 2012" - I love me :)
<popey> s/ali1234/ alanbell/
<xr1rr> but does not matter if, I cancel or report its still there on each restart
<bigcalm> Need to do something about it though
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<popey> xr1rr: did you follow up the 'report' ?
<popey> it should have taken you through filing a bug
<popey> xr1rr: the other thing you can do is remove the crashdump - sudo rm /var/crash/*
<xr1rr> ok.. let me remove the crashdump and hopefully that would stop it..
<popey> would be nice if you did file bugs when you uncover them though, given you're running 12.04
<ali1234> aptd bugs are almost impossible to report with apport
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<ali1234> because it won't let you report bugs if you have old packages
<ali1234> and aptd usually crashes when you are updating
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<davmor2> czajkowski: thanks I feel better now
<MartijnVdS> EHLO?
<Myrtti> YES THIS IS THE DOG
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I think you'll she just love ELO
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: just because they were from Birmingham?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Just cause
 * dwatkins sings "Get off the phone, dog!"
<directhex> http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/Telephone+Dog/
 * davmor2 hands dwatkins a banana phone
<dwatkins> ring, ring, ring, ring....
 * dwatkins hums Rick Astley in davmor2's general direction
<ali1234> a friend of mine has a dog that says hello
<dwatkins> impressive
 * davmor2 finds out his Joe Dolce cd to play at dwatkins 
<dwatkins> I suspect I have some musical learning to do
<davmor2> dwatkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFacWGBJ_cs
<dwatkins> davmor2: thanks, will have a listen later on
<SuperEngineer> back on my [heavily personalised] 10.04 instead of 12.04... feels like stepping into a hot bath.... aaahhhhhhh
<SuperEngineer> how many roads must a man walk down?...
<SuperEngineer> ...12.04
<SuperEngineer> [or 42]
<MartijnVdS> pi
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> I was wondering, what do you do when aptitude safe-upgrade --full-resolver tells you to remove a huge list of packages? Is there a way to resolve the conflicts in a different wy?
<pr0ph3t> way*
<pr0ph3t> or just differently* as I already said "way"
<MartijnVdS> don't use aptitude ;)
<ali1234> i never understood why people say to use aptitude
<ali1234> it has a really horrible cryptic UI where 1 keystroke can screw up everything
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it used to have a better dependency resolver than apt (for upgrades)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but then apt was fixed
<ali1234> but don't upgrades use update-manager?
<MartijnVdS> they don't have to
<ali1234> but update-manager is the only uspported method
<MartijnVdS> sure, but if you're already on precise and want to upgrade from beta to latest
<ali1234> er, i mean do-release-upgrade
<tombrough> in the land where X is broken the command line Guru is King
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, MartijnVdS, I used aptitude because I was not aware that apt had been "fixed" and was told that aptitude was safer for upgrades
<pr0ph3t> tombrough, nice line
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: tell the person you got that advice from they're living in 2010 ;)
<ali1234> what's so hard about resolving dependencies anyway?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Ask any Red Hat dev
<tombrough> in other words gui tools are all well and good until your gui is broken.....
<ali1234> aptitude *is* a gui tool though
<ali1234> it just happens to have a really awful ncurses gui
<tombrough> nope
<tombrough> I think your thinking of synaptic
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, it was probably in 2010 when someone told me to use it in fact :)
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Aptitude-screen-shot.png
<tombrough> well what ever the point is I can use both graphical and command line tools equally well.
<ali1234> good for you :)
<tombrough> And if you dont have an X interface to a box it comes it very useful.
<ali1234> apt is easier to use
<tombrough> didn't say it wasn't although I find looking up stuff easier in aptitude on the command line.
<ali1234> yeah that's exactly what i don't find easier
<directhex> i've never used the aptitude gui
<directhex> i use it instead of apt-get though
<BigRedS> really?
<tombrough> if I know what I need I can usually just type apt-get install ....
<directhex> it's smarter than apt-get in that its resolver proposes multiple valid solutions
<BigRedS> don't you find it just goes round breaking stuff for you?
<BigRedS> well, clearly not...
<directhex> i.e. it will ask "hm, here's my suggestion on how to do what you said. any good?" and you can say "no" to get another proposal
<ali1234> how can there be multiple valid solutions?
<BigRedS> yeah, but most of the suggestions are bonkers IME
<directhex> ali1234, you make it sounds like package resolution is a turing complete issue
<BigRedS> "You aske for vsftpd so I want to uninstall libapache_mod_rewrite"
<ali1234> give an example please
<tombrough> lol
<directhex> ali1234, you can have multiple solutions if, say, installing X requires removal of A or B or C. which of A or B or C do you want to remove?
<tombrough> you can have alternatives.
<BigRedS> or if something depends on an httpd it'll offer you several httpds
<pr0ph3t> so if I do a apt-get upgrade it should not break the system right? Or is it still better to use aptitude safe-upgrade for betas?
<BigRedS> whereas apt-get just installs its favourite
<directhex> removing A or B or C without installing X will force uninstall of D-W, so you don't want to do that
<ali1234> i see
<directhex> aptitude can occasionally find the solution to, say, messy mixes of perl versions. apt-get never can
<ali1234> you don't mean X as in Xorg right?
<directhex> no.
<directhex> i mean as an arbitrary variable
<directhex> i can use "foo" and "bar" if you like
<ali1234> so which actual packages have this problem, except for perl?
<directhex> did i say perl? i meant python
<ali1234> i've never seen this problem with python
<pr0ph3t> directhex, very occasionally, most of the times the suggestions are: remove a huge number of packages and leave dependences unresolved all the same
<directhex> anyway, it's essentially vital on debian unstable, where there's no guarantees that everything works together properly
<BigRedS> ali1234: it's not common. Things that rely on bits of X break sometimes
<directhex> pr0ph3t, so say no to that solution?
<BigRedS> whenever you're spanning releases it's more likely
<pr0ph3t> directhex, sure, but the next solution usually is similar, so I just do not upgrade
<pr0ph3t> which is better than having a broken system I suppose
<pr0ph3t> the problem started because I was using apt-get to upgrade betas and I often found myself with a broken box that would not even boot at times (usually X though). So I was told that aptitude was better because of the safe-upgrade option and I have to say that with full-resolver I've had no problems whatsoever since then
<directhex> oh, there's the other one
<directhex> pbuilder is garbage without the aptitude resolver, if trying to build for experimental
<pr0ph3t> if I'm presented with the solution of removing lots of packages I wait a while before upgrading and that's it
<pr0ph3t> I was wondering whether that's what you gurus did as well!
<directhex> pr0ph3t, sometimes it's the best
<directhex> or pulling from incoming when the error is obvious
<ali1234> hmm this is unusual
<ali1234> rhythmbox imported some of my mp3s twice
<pr0ph3t> now with aptitude I cannot install because of conflicts, but with apt it seems everything is fine, something's not right; either aptitude is telling fibs and apt is trying to trick me, or apt is good and aptitude is not as good
<pr0ph3t> that's my dilemma
<pr0ph3t> and apt is waiting for my Y to go ahead, should I trust it?
<pr0ph3t> I guess I can test it and let you know how it goes :)
<ali1234> so... does update-manager use apt, or does it use it's own?
<Nafallo> ali1234: it uses aptdaemon
<ali1234> so it ends up using the apt resolver?
<ali1234> cos i've seen it give a different solution than apt...
<Nafallo> it's a bit more intelligent than apt
<Nafallo> adds another layer on top
<pr0ph3t> I purged gnome-shell* now and I don't get unresolved dependencies, the differences are: with aptitude full-upgrade it upgrades 52 packages and installs a new one (alpha), safe-upgrade upgrades 52 installs none, apt upgrades 51 and installs none
<pr0ph3t> I personally went for aptitude safe-upgrade, it feels more trustworthy than other options
<pr0ph3t> you can say I'm so 2010, but it does seem the best option
<SuperEngineer> hmmm. "< diplo> BigRedS, I was eating my kids yesterday" - I  wonder what  embryonic goat tastes like
<daftykins> from one channel with bad humour to... oh hi SuperEngineer :)
<SuperEngineer> hi  daftykins  - u seen topic channel?
<SuperEngineer> [reverse those last 2 words]
<daftykins> just looked, not sure there's anything relevant?
<daftykins> oh just the quote
 * SuperEngineer thinks hmmm - must has a personal me only topic on  channel
<daftykins> it was my bad, i was looking at the on-join message in the status window instead of the topic
<SuperEngineer> ...or is bby goat noshing normal online?
<SuperEngineer> you bad!
 * SuperEngineer googles 
<SuperEngineer> "eating online goats"
<SuperEngineer> nope - nothing there - must be u-uk specific trait!
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: i find it hard to follow you ;)
<SuperEngineer> daftykins:  that's because I come from another planet.  deal with it - it's better that eating kids
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> i'd more guess English is your nth language
<SuperEngineer> [or I suppose I could just go - hey, we've *the*coolest channel topic gpoing ;)
<SuperEngineer> [p.s. - English is my 1st language - as in this is were I landed my space craft]
<SuperEngineer> [p/p/s/ - at this point, most  *should* give up]
<daftykins> i smiled, nodded then stealthily wandered off
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<dwatkins> what planet, SuperEngineer?
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: can't say - your authorities would use that to help find me
<SuperEngineer> [clue - te Voyerger craft are getting worryingly close]
<SuperEngineer> * the & ** Voyager - sorry - took a while fo translator to kick in
<ipopey> Moo
<SuperEngineer> Boo
<SuperEngineer> does one assume ipopey  is on a train?
<ipopey> Choo choo
<SuperEngineer> :)
<daftykins> that or Apple redesigned him
<daftykins> he went Apple O_O oh dear
<MartijnVdS> he drank the kool-aid
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: i think it's the only thing on offer at his house
<popey> ebening
<gord> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android?ref=recently_launched they made a lot of moneys o_O
<ali1234> why does it need an smartphone?
<BigRedS> because it's really hard to make an easy-to-use interface the size of a watch
<gord> sensor information i would assume
<gord> gryos, gps
<ali1234> i would prefer an oled screen tbh
<ali1234> probably would mean poor battery though
<BigRedS> oh yeah, that, too
<BigRedS> maybe better than making the watch battery run the sensors
<ali1234> 7 day battery life with the e-paper screen
<ali1234> it has sensors inside it according to the description
<BigRedS> I don't think I could cope very well with a watch I had to remember to recharge
<ali1234> yep
<gord> as long as it comes with a dock i'd be fine, give a thing a dock and suddenly it has a home, i like to keep things in their home
<daftykins> i've not worn a watch since about 1999
<BigRedS> isn't a watches home your wrist, though?
<daftykins> maybe the base of the strap can have wireless charging
<daftykins> then you could get inductive charging just in front of your keyboard, so when you're at the PC it charges \o/
<ali1234> http://www.grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=869&start=40#p16310
<ali1234> faaaaaaaiiiil
<BigRedS> inductive charging really needs to be used in more places than toothbrushes
<ali1234> get a power mat?
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> looks like odd advice
<ali1234> what, the link i posted?
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> that's me being polite of course
<ali1234> it's typical proprietary software user making excuses for their god
<ali1234> you see it all the time when reading tech support forums :(
<ali1234> "software is complicated so there must be a really good reason why it pegs your GPU, and totally not because the developers didn't know what they were doing and/or didn't test it properly"
<daftykins> i got the impression it could be a young person
<ali1234> there's another post in another thread from a guy claiming 18 years PC tech support and never seen a video card blow up
<ali1234> "LOG didnt frag your pc...a cheap arse power supply that couldnt handle the pressure has fragged your pc!!"
<ali1234> well ok, that doesn't explain why the game is creating such a load in the first place
<daftykins> anything specific take you to said forum?
<ali1234> yeah i want to buy that game
<ali1234> but not if it's going to melt my computer
<daftykins> :)
<ali1234> i was just checking if they made a linux version yet ... they didn't
<daftykins> probably safer :D
<ali1234> so i was checking the tech forum for reports of running it on wine
<ali1234> http://powermat.com/
<ali1234> "cut your mains cable with metal scissors!"
<ali1234> "while it's plugged in"
<ali1234> "then wrap the cables around your head"
<daftykins> it's ok those plastic handles... might insulate... some of it
<bigcalm> Toodles :)
<daftykins> ta-ra
<daftykins> wherever you're off to ^_^
<bigcalm> Sleep hopefully
<bigcalm> :)
<daftykins> :D enjoy o/
<bigcalm> \o
<daftykins> heh i have to get up early every day at the moment, only to receive a phone call from builders that yep, as it's raining they're not coming to keep working on my place
<daftykins> quite tedious :>
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Time flies when youre busy having fun working and organising - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/04/18/time-flies-when-youre-busy-having-fun-working-and-organising/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] The Importance Of Application Developers To Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/18/the-importance-of-application-developers-to-ubuntu/
<ali1234> "We canât presume application developers have the skills or interest that  would be commonplace to our existing contributor community."
<ali1234> self-fulfilling prophecy
<daftykins> that's a scary prediction
<ali1234> it's not a prediction
<daftykins> roadmap? :)
<ali1234> well, yeah
<ali1234> it's the same thing that all the platforms are doing right now
<ali1234> attract lots of developers, not because it improves the user experience, but just so you can say "we have the most devlopers"
<daftykins> this whole move to mobile-like app dev?
<daftykins> ah yes
<ali1234> right, exactly
<ali1234> mobile platforms are judged on how many apps they have
<daftykins> the "it looks cool if we have a big number of apps next to our OS" approach
<ali1234> not "can it make a phone call without crashing?" but "can it play angry birds"
<daftykins> hehe
<ali1234> microsoft and nokia are sponsoring a university course for app developers
<ali1234> http://www.webpronews.com/microsoft-nokia-invest-in-aalto-university-app-development-program-2012-03
<daftykins> so weird seeing how mainstream smartphones are now
<ali1234> smartphone does not mean the same thing it did pre-iphone
<daftykins> go to a coffee shop, like i did earlier today - and see someone who really doesn't look like they'd use the features of one pull out a high-end handset
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> which is why it doesn't matter than half the features don't work properly
<daftykins> ja
<ali1234> it's like people who buy a sportcar to drive the kinds to school (popey)
<ali1234> *kids
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> did he now...
<ali1234> no, but he bought an iphone and then tried to justify it as a pragmatic choice
<daftykins> ah close enough then
<daftykins> what i don't like is when people change their nick to say what they're using =|
<czajkowski> a lotta people have iphones they are a nice phone and it is good hardware
<ali1234> which is a bit like a greenpeace supporter decidng they need to drive their kids to school, and then using that to justify buying a porsche
<daftykins> czajkowski: not quite the point in this convo methinks
<ali1234> there's a reason why people use nicks with machine name appended...
<ali1234> on freenode you can group registered nicks
<ali1234> so if they log in on multiple devices they have to use different nicks to not bump themselves
<ali1234> appending device name is the modt logical way to do it :)
<ali1234> i just append extra numbers
<gord> i think adding your phone name is perfectly fine - sent from my ubuntu laptop
<daftykins> i like teasing Apple owning friends by manually adding email signatures like "Sent from my browser"
<gord> worst case i've seen is on the xna forums, you get people adding "Sent from the xna forum app" on their posts then others that say "Sent from the premium xna forum app"
<daftykins> hahaha
<ali1234> is there actually a premium app?
<ali1234> or is it just trolling?
<AlanBell> daftykins: mainstream users do use the features of smartphones a heap more than I do
<daftykins> i'm sure you know what i mean
<AlanBell> my galaxy s2 does irssi, it also has a phone call feature somewhere
<AlanBell> I am sure it does voicemail but I haven't really got to grips with that yet
<daftykins> first thing i try and turn off when i'm in the UK XD
<AlanBell> yeah, I think I will clear mine out and put a message asking people not to leave me voicemails
<ali1234> you can turn it off you know
<daftykins> or an amusing prank that makes it sound like you've answered, but really it's the voicemail message
<ali1234> then the phone will just ring and ring until you answer or they give up
<ali1234> that's what i do
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> i like AlanBell's plan more though, 'cause it'll confuse people
<AlanBell> apparently you dial 1760 and it is gone.
<AlanBell> it is gone
<ali1234> watching trading bots .1'ing each other....
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-19
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<Azelphur> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, jono, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
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<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<hamitron> sad
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> indeed :P
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<Azelphur> already asked for an ircop in #freenode, no luck yet though
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<hamitron> he is wasting his time anyway
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<hamitron> only weird people like us stay up this late ;D
<gry> syria|: Knock that off, please.
<Azelphur> hehe
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<syria|> Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ±
<hamitron> ty
<pangolin> they will be back with a different IP
<Azelphur> indeed, ty :)
<pangolin> been hitting several #ubuntu* channels
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<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diplo> Morning ladies
<christel> Azelphur: thank you for trying me, sorry for being asleep! and sorry for the arabic!
<christel> morning diplo, MartijnVdS and oimon :)
<christel> er MooDoo*
 * diplo hates having to do styling seperatly for IE :(
<MooDoo> morning christel are you well?
<christel> i am! :D
<MooDoo> christel: fab
<christel> in the process of packing up my life to move house mind
<christel> so i suspect my stresslevels will soar
<MooDoo> christel: ouch, long distance move?
<christel> nah from the northern side of farnham to a smaller town to the south (beacon hill)
<christel> so about 15mins drive away
<MooDoo> christel: not so bad then
<christel> i was originally looking for something closer but on the south side (better schools!) but everything was rather ahem, compact and pricey and i like.. fields and space
<christel> so i ventured further afield and managed to find somewhere in the middle of nowhere :)
<MooDoo> cool
<daubers> Morning
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> good moaning
 * dwatkins demonstrates the Raspberry Pi to some relatives and tries to explain how a cheap computer could be great for kids to learn with
<DJones> I still think Apple Pi or Cherry Pi would be better, served with double cream & ice cream
<dwatkins> Don't both those names already have a computer? ;)
<DJones> Good call, I didn't think of that
<diplo> dwatkins, what is it like then ? Good buy ?
<dwatkins> diplo: I havn't received mine yet, just watching videos and preparing to get mine next month, but I suspect for Â£30 it'll be worth the money even if I just run XBMC on it ;)
<diplo> heh, I was up at 5:30 to order mine and failed for the next few hours
<diplo> And I still haven't got round to ordering one yet, and after seeing some of the issues I thought I'd hold off :)
<bigcalm_laptop> Good morning peeps :)
<diplo> Morning :)
<BigRedS> Can the pi do xbmc?
<BigRedS> I assumed it was too lightweight hardware-wise
<bigcalm_laptop> Front or back end?
<bigcalm_laptop> Oh, my bad. Was thinking of mythtv
<diplo> yeah BigRedS , loads of youtube videos of it
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<diplo> All off loaded on the GPU, 1080p video goodness
<BigRedS> ahhhh
<dwatkins> diplo: yeah, I was up early and also didn't manage to order one then, got a mail a couple days later and ordered straightaway, delivery date is supposedly mid-May.
<dwatkins> yeah, XBMC looks to run ok, not sure it'll cope with HD video, though.
<diplo> 1080P dwatkins
<diplo> They were playing the 1080 videos from blender in the demos ive seen
<diplo> Playback looks very smooth
<selinuxium_> BigRedS, http://www.raspbmc.com/  :)
<selinuxium_> Morning  all   o/
<dwatkins> oh cool, diplo - I didn't remember seeing HD video playing
<diplo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NR57ELY28s
<directhex> the chip on the raspberry pi has a very good GPU, so expect video playback for any openmax-supported codecs to be good
<directhex> cpu's a bit poo though
<dwatkins> 700 MHz ARM, iirc
<mrevell> bigcalm_laptop, Hello! This is easier than shouting over the coffee machine.
<directhex> dwatkins, "ARM" means as much as "x86". much less actually
<directhex> dwatkins, it's a 700MHz version of the iPhone 1's CPU (the 3GS has a much better CPU)
<dwatkins> ah ok, didn't know that. I thought ARM was as specific as x86_64
<bigcalm_laptop> I'm going to have to take pain killers just to cope with the sofa-esk seats in this cafe
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<bigcalm_laptop> This maybe comfier on the bum, but the wooden seats had better back support
<directhex> dwatkins, it's more of a build-your-own. you pick a core ARM instruction set version, then you pick the extensions it support. this doesn't count variants which are available which are missing some instructions so aren't true implementations of a given instruction set
<bigcalm_laptop> Hey czajkowski
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod hello
<directhex> dwatkins, so the Pi can't run Ubuntu because Ubuntu is built for ARMv7 with certain extensions, and Pi has a pretty featureless ARMv6
<directhex> there are severe performance implications to building for older arm instruction sets
<dwatkins> directhex: oh I see, didn't realise there was so much variation in the processors. Could Ubuntu be compiled for the Pi, though?
<dwatkins> oh ok, so it could be but it might not run so well.
<directhex> debian "armel" is built for ARMv4 with Thumb extension. i build mono for v5, and have never had a complaint.
<directhex> debian "armhf" is built for ARMv7 with Thumb-2 and hardware floating point acceleration (arm usually does floating point numbers via software emulation)
<directhex> ubuntu "armel" is ARMv7 with Thumb-2 and software float, afaik?
<directhex> dwatkins, the short version is ubuntu could be built for pi with appropriate resources made available, and canonical will not make those resources available gratis, so the pi foundation isn't interested
<dwatkins> directhex: oh I see, I guess people will run Fedora or whatever the foundation make available, then.
<directhex> dwatkins, fedora's not a much better choice for them, as it turns out - fedora won't provide any resources either, beyond the one-off image that was already created
<dwatkins> oh bah, directhex :-/ I wonder what the best choice is (slackware? hurd...? ;) )
<dwatkins> oh wait, hurd isn't a distro, it's a bios eplacement, isn't it
<directhex> hurd is a kernel
<directhex> pretty much a toy one
<directhex> the only working hurd distribution is debian hurd-i386
<dwatkins> oh yeah, not particularly stable I assume
<directhex> it's just garbage. doesn't implement basic POSIX, so loads of stuff won't build
<directhex> not to mention barely any hardware support
<directhex> dwatkins, debian is the only widely available distro which runs on armv6
<dwatkins> that's a great shame, people have high hopes for the Pi
<BigRedS> are we complaining about the Pi being made of cheap hardware again? :)
<dwatkins> no, BigRedS ;) we're discussing what distros will run on it... oh wait, that's the same discussion... :)
<BigRedS> haha
<directhex> lolz
 * AlanBell is alt-tabbing and enjoying it :)
<gord> AlanBell, i thought you didn't care much for the unity alt-tabber?
<BigRedS> AlanBell: gnome3?
<AlanBell> I do now, it works
<BigRedS> oh!
<gord> woo
<AlanBell> BigRedS: no, someone fixed it
<bigcalm_laptop> gord: happy birthday :)
 * BigRedS resolves to upgrade when he gets home
<gord> bigcalm_laptop, yesterday ;)
<bigcalm_laptop> gord: so why aren't you here today?
<bigcalm_laptop> Happy belated birthday :P
<directhex> dwatkins,  the pi's chip is a set-top-box chip. enough GPU to watch HD satellite broadcasts, enough CPU to draw a menu. it's basically designed for XBMC-style cases
<gord> bigcalm_laptop, gotta stay in to let in the gas man, needs some annual inspection or something like that
<bigcalm_laptop> Ah, I get to choose when that happens at our house
<dwatkins> directhex: ah I see; I wonder what they'll be used for in schools.
<AlanBell> gord: alt-tab and the launcher switching in unity is now quite good, better than gnome2 or other standard switchers
<directhex> dwatkins, running "scratch", mostly
<dwatkins> directhex: this, I assume - http://scratch.mit.edu/
<dwatkins> reminds me of AVS
<BigRedS> AlanBell: does it to all apps on all workspaces?
<BigRedS> Oh, that might be something I broke
 * BigRedS has vague recollections of trying to fix alt-tab in ccsm
<AlanBell> BigRedS: not quite sure, the main thing it does is not raise random windows
<BigRedS> oooh!
<AlanBell> I have not had to pin anything on top today, normally I am forever overriding stuff and pinning it so I don't lose windows and basically manually setting my z-order
<BigRedS> I'm actually looking forward to going home and trying it out now :)
<AlanBell> it probably makes it harder to use the gimp again
<AlanBell> actually it doesn't! looks like the Gimp is an exception and that works how you would want it to as well :)
<AlanBell> all gimp windows raise together, terminal and other windows raise just the one you asked for
<BigRedS> oh!
<BigRedS> now it's just the don't-type-the-last-letter thingy the alt-f2 thing has and I'd be overjoyed!
<AlanBell> I saw something about the HUD being fixed for people who can type in my bug mail
 * AlanBell turns the HUD back on to try
<BigRedS> oh, my only recent experience with the HUD has been it getting in the way of Terminator
<BigRedS> It was amazing for the several hours after I first got it, and then I realised that muscle memory and keyboard shortcuts are still quicker than thinking
<AlanBell> yup, HUD works now too
<AlanBell> HUD was always clever in that you could just mash the keyboard and hit some of the letters that feature in the menu entry you want and it would offer it
<gord> bah, be have said no fibre this year :(
<AlanBell> keeps you regular
<gord> and yes, HUD fully supports cat typing.. unfortunately
<BigRedS> Does it do synonyms?
<BigRedS> that was my big worry. I think it needs that at launch
<BigRedS> so I can ask for 'options' and get 'preferences'
<gord> hud only reads from menus and menus have no idea of synonyms
<AlanBell> they do know about translations though
<AlanBell> and a11y hints
<AlanBell> though I don't know if dbus menu strips out all of that stuff
<gord> they don't know about translations, only the resulting translation
<BigRedS> gord: yeah, I suspected so. Are there plans to wedge synonym awareness in there somewhere?
<gord> it would be nice, but i don't think its possible without re-writing how menus work across toolkits and a huge effort behind translators too
<BigRedS> Ah, fair enough
<BigRedS> I'd assumed there was some way to slip a layer in there to do synonym lookups before checking what the menus have
<AlanBell> that sounds hard/bad to me
<BigRedS> bad?
<BigRedS> well, it'd be hard to do well, I suppose
<BigRedS> it's just that when you're browsing the menu for 'resize' and you see 'scale' you know that'll do what you want
<AlanBell> it would be a mess with translations
<AlanBell> I think you have to do it well or not at all
<BigRedS> but if you're searching for 'resize' and teh app calls it 'resize' it'd make sense to not have the human need to think up synonyms to try
<gord> HUD really isn't for searching right now ;)
<BigRedS> yeah, but if you do it not at all you can't afford to have the hud as the only easy way to get at anything which someone was telling me was the eventual plan
<gord> its for getting what you already know exists
<BigRedS> yeah, is there a hud-way to find out what exists? Or is the plan to keep the menus there for that?
<BigRedS> I really need to keep up with all this stuff better. Is there a ubuntu-design-announce or similar list? :)
<gord> i think thats marks blog ;)
<popey> hah
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> i really need to write my blog-to-mail converter thingy
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
 * daubers makes a coffee
<kvarley> I want to install libssp0-dev in Oneric. I can't seem to find that package. Has it being renamed?
<popey> debian bug 421162
<lubotu3> Debian bug 421162 in libssp0 "gcc-4.1: libssp0 is gone, several packages depend on it" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/421162
<kvarley> popey: Thanks, I shall browse packages.ubuntu for it
<kvarley> (In an older release
<kvarley> Hhmm, can't find it
<kvarley> It was listed as a dependency for an application I'm trying to build. I'll see if it throws an error because of the package or whether it has been phased out.
<popey> what package?
<kvarley> libssp0-dev
<czajkowski> folks may be interested if they are around - https://events.bcs.org/book/276/
<popey> kvarley: no, what are you trying to build
<kvarley> rutorrent
<kvarley> popey: Sorry, misunderstood. Trying to build rutorrent.
<popey> never heard of that, is that like rtorrent?
<kvarley> popey: It's a web-ui for rtorrent yes.
<popey> neat
<BigRedS> czajkowski: when you post those, can you say what they are?
<kvarley> popey: I suspect it may be an old dependency of rtorrent or libtorrent as those need to be built from source because rtorrent needs the xmlrpc extension.
<kvarley> popey: ty for help anyway
<popey> sorry i can't help âº
<kvarley> popey: ah ha, the ubuntu package has the necessary flags so I no longer need to build it! =]
<popey> hah
<popey> AlanBell / ali1234 do we know that notifications appear on the "wrong" screen?
<czajkowski> BigRedS: I can or a simple click on it might just do, london museum
<BigRedS> er, if you like
<AlanBell> popey: erm, they actually appear on the screen now I think
<AlanBell> what are you calling wrong?
<AlanBell> yes, they now appear on the right hand screen even if the top of the right screen is lower than the top of the left screen
<popey> AlanBell: i have a laptop and an external display
<popey> AlanBell: if i adjust brightness of laptop screen, the notifications are on the external display
<popey> which makes no sense
<MartijnVdS> popey: it does to the design team! :P
<popey> :p
<AlanBell> is the external display on the left or right?
<AlanBell> and does it work different on a mac :)
<oimon> is there any way to stop SPAM SMS messages ?
<oimon> they come from different numbers each time
<kvarley> oimon: On android you can have a firewall for that kind of thing. But if the numbers keep changing then it'll be useless.
<popey> AlanBell: neither, it's on top :p
<AlanBell> popey: ooh interesting. well I guess the notifications go on the top right screen then
<oimon> The TPS can accept the registration of mobile telephone numbers, however it is important to note that this will prevent the receipt of marketing voice calls but not SMS (text) messages.
 * AlanBell sees an "opinion" status in popey's future
 * christel tickles AlanBell 
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/4CgRR0eZRmKp4TWdqFcilR
<popey> my desktop ^^
<AlanBell> wonder what happens if you drag the top screen to the left a bit so the bottom one extends past it slightly
 * AlanBell wriggles
<popey> hmmm
<AlanBell> oh down go the notifications :)
<popey> haha
<AlanBell> anyhow, I don't think there is anything in the notification spec that says "it would be rather sensible if this notification happened on this screen" they all go where they go
<popey> yeah, they move
<AlanBell> which is the top of the right-most screen
<popey> what should I file a bug against?
<AlanBell> ayatana design
<popey> i need to prop my display up a bit
 * popey looks for a big boys book of java to stand it on
<AlanBell> and demo it to John Lea, preferably with a comparison to it doing something more sensible on a macbook
<popey> i can do that
<MartijnVdS> popey: Java in a Nutshell
<popey> i have core java fundamentals
<MartijnVdS> popey: is appropriately coconut-sized 8-)
<popey> and core java advanced features
<MartijnVdS> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596007737.do
<popey> that tiger looks a touch surprised
<popey> he he having a rectal exam or something?
<MartijnVdS> guess where the coconut goes
 * oimon tries out knoppix 7
<popey> hah
<oimon> lol @tiger
<oimon> kde is stil looking ugly :(
<BigRedS> haha!
<BigRedS> I thought knoppix was xfce now?
<AlanBell> christel: so when do you move?
<BigRedS> Only 'cause the last person to whom I mentioned my surprise at KDE on a liveCD said it'd changed
<oimon> BigRedS, lxde by defaut
<BigRedS> oh!
 * AlanBell wonders about a busy day next friday
<oimon> which looks like KDE3.5
<oimon> (not a bad thing)
<BigRedS> yeah
<AlanBell> anyone in London available next friday to tell the Cabinet Office all about open standards?
<BigRedS> I tried lxde for a bit when the end of Gnome 2 was first mooted
<BigRedS> wont everyone be hungover?
<popey> +1
<AlanBell> BigRedS: probably
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I'll be in London 10-12 May
<oimon> knoppix is the distro you put on a flash disk if you want every useful app :)
<oimon> i guess many people won't notice that it is lxde they are using
<BigRedS> you really shouldn't need to notice which DE you're using...
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: (for http://www.last.fm/event/3206070 + http://www.last.fm/event/3206071)
<BigRedS> oimon: it's what you use instead of systemrescue CD now you've GBs to play with :)
<oimon> yeah
<oimon> shame about all the compiz aninations...
<oimon> my windows are expliding and burning
<oimon> the teenagers must love it
<BigRedS> compiz? oh. haha
<BigRedS> well, still gotta show off how efficiently they can pack an OS into something run in ram I suppose
 * AlanBell likes compiz
<BigRedS> plain lxde was too easy :)
<oimon> super + mouse wheel for zooming is brilliant
<AlanBell> hopefully wayland will have all the compiz goodness
<oimon> use it most days
<AlanBell> oimon: yeah, but my patch to turn that on was rejected
<oimon> :-\
<oimon> too useful, rejected
<oimon> i use alt+wheel now
<AlanBell> apparenly someone somewhere zoomed in and couldn't work out how to zoom back out again
<AlanBell> so the feature was turned off by default for everyone
<popey> makes sense
<popey> same for workspaces
<popey> they should be off by default
<AlanBell> I can understand that
<BigRedS> I think it should be easy to stumble across them, though
<oimon> if you turn everything off by default, you end up needing a windows style video to tell you about stuff :(
<BigRedS> they're really really good
<AlanBell> it would be nice to have stuff like that in the app store
<AlanBell> so you go and install multiple workspaces or zooming
<oimon> or a noob friendly version of ccsm
<BigRedS> why not just a 'features' checklist in some config dialog?
<AlanBell> the plan was to turn everything off, and throw away the keys by dropping ccsm from the repos
<BigRedS> I'm wary of turning off all the plus-points in an effort to not scare people away
<BigRedS> why stay if all teh good stuff's off?
<BigRedS> but I think there's a few really good reasons I don't work in UI design
<AlanBell> yeah, I don't think things catching fire is an essential feature :)
<AlanBell> show mouse is awesome though
<BigRedS> haha
<AlanBell> turn the plugin on (wait 10 seconds for unity to reload and these days it generally does) then press super+k
<BigRedS> Xeyes by default!
<oimon> knoppix is probably the distro i would give my 15 year old nephew :P
<oimon> everyone wants to be l33t when they are that age
<AlanBell> when you turn on or off a plugin then the whole stack of compiz plugins are asked to re-read their settings, unity used to die in a heap every time that happened, which was the main reason they nearly dropped ccsm
<gordonjcp> is knoppix still on the go?
<oimon> gordonjcp, yes, latest one is based off debian 6
<oimon> i have it on a 9gb dvd
<BigRedS> AlanBell: ah, is that why it's still not there by default?
<AlanBell> and also turn down the mouse polling interval to 1, the default of 40 is pointlessly slow
<AlanBell> BigRedS: yeah, there were two problems, the instability of unity when reloading itself (solved) and the problem with dependency on the largedesktop feature which meant if you switched from wall to cube you had to turn off unity during the transition
<oimon> some essential features are in ccsm that are not found anywhere else
<AlanBell> and as that wasn't an actual hard dependency I did a patch to remove it
<BigRedS> ahhh
<BigRedS> yeah, I was a bit irked that unity seemed to come with a bunch of dumb defaults and nowhere to change them
<AlanBell> so I fixed the problems and got a bit grumpy, so ccsm didn't get dropped :)
<BigRedS> haha
<oimon> ccsm doesn't appear in app search for download
<oimon> you have to write the full name
<BigRedS> nah, it's called compizconfig-settings-manager
<oimon> deliberate, i wonder?
<BigRedS> make it even harder to find?
<gord> its always been that way
<popey> no
<gord> for years
<oimon> need moar metadata
<pangolin> a metapackage named ccsm would be nice
<popey> you can fix it if you want
<popey> or just complain here.
<popey> and speculate.
<oimon> s/complain/make observation
<BigRedS> you need to stop telling me that's an option :)
<BigRedS> I'll only keep doing it :)
<popey> hah
<AlanBell> there are loads of forum posts out there telling people to "sudo apt-get install ccsm" there was a cleanup effort a while back
<oimon> i only discovered since i'd been on 10.04 for 2 years
<BigRedS> Most of the time, though, I come here and grumble about something and then someone tells me it was fixed yesterday
<AlanBell> https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=%22sudo+apt-get+install+ccsm%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gl=uk
<oimon> i found it strange because once it's installed, then you can run it with ccsm
<BigRedS> well, yeah, but there's lots of packages whose names aren't the name of the executable
<BigRedS> none come to mind immediately, though...
<christel> AlanBell: i aim to finish moving by july!
<oimon> most issues in ubuntu that i experience end up being deliberate by design
<BigRedS> yeah. Well, there's a fine line to tread between making it really easy to break your system and making it really easy to not break it
<BigRedS> and Ubuntu has *always* drawn that further towards the latter than most distros
<BigRedS> that's sort of it's point
<BigRedS> but that means you get 'dumb' design decisions that mean you can't do unusual things by default
<pangolin> BigRedS, that was fixed just last night
<BigRedS> pangolin: :)
<pangolin> no more dumb design decisions is included in the kernel update
<pangolin> I think Unity was a great decision, it made me give KDE a real chance and now I love KDE
<oimon> KDE takes some effort to love
<oimon> as an ex-3.5.x lover ..
<oimon> i still can't like 4.x
<BigRedS> yeah, it's nice how many people have taken the end of Gnome2 as an excuse to try everything else out
<BigRedS> I'm not used to peopel caring much about DEs beyond what colour the panel is.
<AlanBell> anyone not filled this out yet? http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/
<popey> bug11:03:25 -!- sense [~sense@ubuntu/member/qense] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg]
<popey> er
<popey> no idea how that happened
<popey> bug 985586
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 985586 in Ayatana Design "Brightness notifications appear on 'wrong' screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985586
<bigcalm_laptop> Silly Lighthouse network connection, forcing me to use my phone
<oimon> BigRedS, i think the choice of DE can have a sizable impact on your workflow
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> which is why it's nice that people are thinking about them again
<BigRedS> I've long found I'm completely unproductive in unity, but find Gnome 3 fine, so Gnome 3 is on my work PC and Unity at home
<oimon> what i don't understand is why somebody would need to switch to the mythical arch linux to get another DE
<gordonjcp> I find it the opposite way round
<gordonjcp> I just can't get my head around gnome 3 at all
<oimon> BigRedS, how do you switch between apps, and see what windows are open/find a relevant window?
<BigRedS> alt-tab and ctrl-alt-arrows
<oimon> i'm more mouse oriented
<BigRedS> I rarely want to know which windows are open
<oimon> we're probably quite opposite then
<BigRedS> but I have a _really_ static set of apps open
<BigRedS> yeah
<oimon> i have a lot of windows that i'm often copy-paste or comparing stuff
<oimon> and end up with lots of libreoffice, pdf, and terminals and millions of chomrium tabs
<BigRedS> yeah, sometimes I copy-paste, normally pidgin-to-terminal or terminal-to-mail client, though
<BigRedS> I get round multiple terminals with guake, terminator, tabs and screen
<BigRedS> before guake I used to have xterms all over the place
<oimon> i tried using a tablet for work for a few days, and it was impossible. for some people, it would work ok
<oimon> it's another strange design in unity that if it hit the BFB and type gimp, and discover it's not installed, i then click on the pencil icon to download it, but word gets deleted and i have to retype it :-\
<BigRedS> yeah, I do way too much typing to get away with a tablet
<oimon> for me it's the copy paste workflow that doesn't work with tablets (and full-screen DEs like gnome3)
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I do very little copy-paste
<ali1234> popey: what do you mean by "notifications" "wrong" and "we"?
<popey> 13:09:11 < popey> bug 985586
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 985586 in Ayatana Design "Brightness notifications appear on 'wrong' screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985586
<popey> ^ that
<ali1234> no idea, i don't have a way to adjust brightness
<ali1234> all notifications always appear in the same place though right?
<ali1234> you want the brightness one to always be on the monitor that is being adjusted?
<oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/01mz0gRvonVFpGpoi31Idq bit of a strange description for an app?
<popey> yeah ali1234
<popey> makes sense
<ali1234> i guess but it will mean totally rewriting the notifications probably
<ali1234> and it took a yer for them to fix it so that they were even on the screen at all with multimonitor
<ali1234> *year
<popey> heh
<ali1234> so good luck getting that fixed
<DJones> Sheesh, next thing people will want all notifications to appear on whichever screen they happen to be looking at, I guess a driver is needed to use a webcam to detect which direction the eyes are looking to decide which screen is being stared at
<oimon> anyone here use ubuntu one? if i publish a file to web, it seems i need to hit f5 in nautilus before seeing the copy-web-link option . i don't think it use to do that?
<popey> DJones: where the mouse is located is a good indicator
<DJones> popey: Good thinking
<popey> oimon: you have to wait till the notification has displayed
<popey> http://www.matform.co.uk/Contact_Us
<popey> bah!
<oimon> popey, ah cheers. i didn't see the notification this time (?)
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/6zO2vCcNHPQohcyDOLkYfr
<popey> just tested it
<AlanBell> http://londonraspi01.eventbrite.co.uk/ pre-release party event
<ali1234> how can they have a pre-release party when it's already released?
<oimon> popey, i tihnk the issue is that my notifications are borken!
<oimon> that's a rather difficult bug to report
<dogmatic69> My crons are generating emails and the error is 'tput: No value for $TERM and no -T specified'
<dogmatic69> checked google, but not found much help
<dogmatic69> any ideas?
<oimon> is it a bug that notifications are not seen if chromium is running full screen on the display that notifications appear on
<dogmatic69> I am doing * * * * /some/command > /dev/null so its something from stderr I believe
<gordonjcp> dogmatic69: cron jobs are run with nothing set in the environment
<dogmatic69> gordonjcp: I just set it up with crontab -e, is there anything else I should do?
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: yeah, you need to export TERM to something
<BigRedS> or call whatever /some/command is with -T <whatever you want to set as teh terminal>
<BigRedS> that's a problem that /some/command is having, not a cron issue
<dogmatic69> hmmm
<dogmatic69> its a CakePHP shell, so that might be a bug?
<dogmatic69> I am calling this https://github.com/cakephp/cakephp/blob/master/lib/Cake/Console/cake
<bigcalm_laptop> Connection theif!
<bigcalm_laptop> thief
<oimon> As a trial during the Lucid development cycle, when an application inhibits notifications, we should display a notification: âFurther notifications have been disabled.â
<oimon> i wonder if that's still the case - don't remember seeing that before
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: did it come with any documentation? Is it designed to be run in cron?
<dogmatic69> well it is a shell script
<dogmatic69> its not uncommon to use it in crons
<BigRedS> yeah, so it's supposed to work in that instance
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: what can I set -T with?
<dogmatic69> loads of posts say just /dev/null &2>1 but I would rather fix it so I can catch other serious issues
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: well, you'd need to find where tput is called and append that to it
<BigRedS> or set the $TERM environment var
<oimon> BigRedS, your name is red in my xchat. thought you would like that :D
<BigRedS> haha
<dogmatic69> cool, what can I set $TERM to then?
<dogmatic69> oimon: mine too :D
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: TERM=bash? or TERM=foobar
<BigRedS> It depends what it uses it for. xterm's pretty common
<BigRedS> (so export TERM="xterm")
<BigRedS> it likely only matters if you need it to be set to something weird
<oimon> like installing solaris from the text console :P
<dogmatic69> bah, now I cant save the crontab
<dogmatic69> "/tmp/crontab.HxMsB4/crontab":23: bad minute
<dogmatic69> errors in crontab file, can't install.
<oimon> paste a copy of crontab to pastebin
<oimon> could be a spurious first character in the line
<dogmatic69> its just MAILTO="me..." and */1 * * * * /my/command > /dev/null
<oimon> what's on line 23?
<dogmatic69> if I comment the new 'export ...' out its fine
<BigRedS> so it's not just a MAILTO and */1 *....
<dogmatic69> oimon: the export
<BigRedS> You can't just export stuff in crontabs
<dogmatic69> :/
<oimon> one way is to replace /my/command with /my/command.sh
<BigRedS> normally you'd use a wrapper script which sets up the environment and then calls the script and stick that in the cron
<oimon> what he said ^
<BigRedS> you could just modify the script cakephp have given you if you want, though
<BigRedS> that's basically being a shell wrapper, but your changes will be clobbered by upgrades
<dogmatic69> I am not into 'hacking the core' of CakePHP
<BigRedS> it's not, it's just editing a file
<BigRedS> but, yeah, I'd normally just wrap the wrapper :)
<oimon> if you really want you can put it on the same line:
<oimon> export TERM=xterm; /my/command
<dogmatic69> ye, but I maintain 100's of Cake apps and dont have time to maintain my own fork of hacks. I will speak to them and see if it can be merged into the core or other work arounds
<oimon> dogmatic69, i think you've missed the point
<BigRedS> just write something like this: http://pastebin.com/vrQJ5PR4
<BigRedS> than stick *that* in your crontab
<BigRedS> but, yeah, also file a bug
<dogmatic69> ye, the actual app I work on is OS and is not limited to linux so its not that simple
<BigRedS> well, either you need to get some change in the CakePHP or you need to work around that
<oimon> all this talk of cake makes me hungry
<dwatkins> I just had some cake. It had too many raisins in for my liking, though.
<BigRedS> cakes shouldn't have raisins
<BigRedS> cake is not a suitable place to put fruit
<BigRedS> except bananas
<oimon> as it's easter, i'm scoffing these mostly http://www.flickr.com/photos/oimon/5158732351/in/photostream
<SuperEngineer> I'm confused [not hard]... now gone from no alert sounds on 12.04 to at least 1 working - window sounds /action sounds still dead - yet no relevant update to have caused the minotr change..,
<SuperEngineer> ...oh... hi folks
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<popey> i still dont know what alert sounds you mean
<popey> what exactly step by step do you need to do to _make_ a sound
 * DJones orders the GPS add on dongle for his prime on the basis that its free and may come in handy at some point even though GPS is working fine
<SuperEngineer> popey, such as those found in /usr/share/sounds/ubuntu etc
<popey> no, thats not what I asked
<SuperEngineer> popey, [rthat
<popey> I am asking what you expect to happen
<popey> not where the files are
<oimon> can someone on precise try something for me? open a tomboy window by clicking icon->search all notes, then maximise another window (or in my case with 2 monitors, maximise 1 app on each monitor). then click tomboy icon and click search all notes. - what happens?
<SuperEngineer> I expect a sound to be heard when an action is preformed [p.s. these were called "window sounds" *I think* in 10.04 - can't remember.  I'll go bbs and switch back to 10.04 & check if it helps understanding.
<popey> SuperEngineer: you haven't said what action
<SuperEngineer> mouse click on dialogue buttons
<popey> oimon: it doesn't raise the window, i noticed this yesterday, file a bug
<oimon> popey, ta
<oimon> popey, noticed with tomboy or other app?
<popey> tomboy
<oimon> not sure whose bug it is
<oimon> unity or tomboy
<popey> probably compiz or tomboy, not unity
<SuperEngineer> popey, mouse click on dialogue buttons - like "close"
<oimon> i'll try tomboy
<popey> i would go for compiz
<popey> SuperEngineer: how do you enable this?
<popey> SuperEngineer: i have never had sounds happen when clicking on buttons so I'm trying to understand how you got to know it's broken, how was it enabled, where did it happen
<oimon> :P i'll do compiz as advised :P
<popey> is tomboy the only app you've noticed it with?
<SuperEngineer> popey, In 10.04 - my comparison - there is a check box in sound settings - in 12.04 there isn't
 * popey checks other mono apps
<popey> oimon: you may be right, could be tomboy only
<oimon> popey, dropbox-preferences does the same
<popey> ooh
<popey> works here
<oimon> open dropbox folder does not, since it opens another instnace of nautlus each time
<popey> hah, sometimes
<popey> the icon wobbles
<popey> and gets a blue triangle
<oimon> wiggles, more than tomboy
<popey> yeah
<oimon> hmm
<popey> no idea then âº
<popey> maybe ask in #ubuntu-unity
<popey> or #ubuntu-desktop
<popey> seb123 might know
<oimon> thx , i'll try unity
<oimon> #
<SuperEngineer> bbs - off to 10.04 to sanity check
<popey> didrocks is also super helpful âº
<SuperEngineer> popey:  in 10.04's  "Sound Preference" there is a separate check-box titled "Enable window & button sounds".  When ticked, even clicking an app icon on panel to start the app  causes a sound response.  In 12.04 - none of this available to me - no check box is even there.  The check-box in question is at bottom of "sound effects" - it is a separate thing altogether from "Alert volume"
<popey> gotcha
<SuperEngineer> ...whew - at last ;)
<popey> long time since i ran 10.04 and I've never clicked that button
<popey> get a screenshot of it
<popey> and you can file it as a regression bug
<SuperEngineer> popeyn as in you want or you got
<SuperEngineer> popey:  as in you want or you got
<popey> what?
<SuperEngineer> sorry - just joking... thought you might appreciate a screeshot youself as a souvenir ;)
<popey> hah
<SuperEngineer> popey: but seriously, thanks for all the help during this [it's been going on a while IIRC]
<popey> np
<bigcalm_laptop> One day that I'm out of the office, I bet the 2.5" -> 3.5" brackets arrived in the post
<bigcalm_laptop> Amazing how productive today as been
<bigcalm_laptop> I think it helps not going to the LUG on a Wednesday night before this
<oimon> dragging a unity icon to trash to remove it from launcher has now become v dificult when the launcher overflows
<oimon> doesn't scroll down :-\
<popey> oooh, thats a bug
<gordonjcp> can't you right-click and "Remove from launcher"?
<popey> you can, but drag to trash should work too
<oimon> they used to allow to just drag off the launcher, but now force drag to trash, which is OK if it works
<AlanBell> someone broke my internets
<BigRedS> sorry!
<oimon> i keep clicking u1 icon instead of software centre :-\
<czajkowski> they do look rather similar
<czajkowski> and I've my icons going by colour so always get them mixed up
<oimon> is there an official name for when you have too many icons on the launcher?
<oimon> concertina mode?
<popey> no idea
<DJones> oimon: Busy or greedy springs to mind
<oimon> it isn't reported so far, so i was gonna add a bug report
<oimon> overfull
<oimon> bug 985710
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 985710 in unity "cannot drag icon from launcher to trash when the launcher is full of icons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985710
<andylockran> anyone else having issues with Spitfire Internet?
<andylockran> Their Bloomsbury exchange (run by easynet) is down
<davmor2_> oimon: right click the U1 icon and unlock it :)
<andylockran> and it's messing life up for me right and proper
<andylockran> got 1 more week until I get bethere installed
<AlanChicken> hullo
<oimon> davmor2_, that is a possible solution yes, :D
<AlanBell> yay
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell, what's the 3rd option? Chicken bell? D-O-N-G ;)
 * DJones points AlanChicken to http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/17769677
<AlanBell> looking like a party already http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1624/detail/
<popey> hmm
<popey> in rhythmbox how do you get it to copy music when you import?
<popey> right, opened banshee, used import there
<popey> and now rhytthmbox sees them
 * AlanBell ponders ltsp and vnc and other things
<AlanBell> my daughter is complaining that her computer is too slow (P4 1.8Ghz)
<AlanBell> I want to run a browser with flash on my computer and remote it to hers somehow
<popey> hah!
<popey> my kids have 900MHz celerons!
<bigcalm_laptop> I do believe it's pub time!
<AlanBell> it is maxed out at 1GB ram too
<AlanBell> not sure if LTSP is the way forward, is that based on X or VNC or something else?
<AlanBell> ssh -X and running chromium-browser was too slow
<AlanBell> maybe freenx is the way forward?
<AlanBell> or maybe that got dropped from the repos
<andylockran> ls
<AlanBell> file not found
<popey> AlanBell: a 1.8GHz that only take 1GB RAM?
<directhex> 1.8... wiliamette?
<directhex> or did that top out at 1.3
<AlanBell> hmm, dunno for sure, but I thought I had filled it up
<chris_w> hello, how to rename a luks partition? it is mounted as /media/"uuid" quite unhandy
<directhex> if it's socket 423, then more ram will cost hundreds
<directhex> 423 = RAMBUS
<popey> my kids eee 900's with celerons have 2GB RAM
<dogmatic69> found a new shortcut for screen, instead of ctrl+a then [ for scroll, just F7
<AlanBell> dell optiplex GX 260
<AlanBell> 2 DIMM slots; 128MB shared3 non-EEC DDR SDRam as standard; 1GB - max using 128MB, 256MB,
<AlanBell> 512MB modules
<popey> ooh handy dogmatic69
<popey> bummer
<DJones> AlanBell: One of these? http://www.mrmemory.co.uk/memory/product.asp?ProductID=12525
<dogmatic69> very, much quicker with just 1 key press
<popey> yeah
<popey> and i forget the other one
<AlanBell> DJones: yeah, looks like that, maybe it will take 2GB, but I don't have that lying around
<popey> i might
<popey> take a picture of one, or find one, i might have in my box'o'ram
<DJones> AlanBell: I've got a GX270 that takes 2Gb & looks to have the same case, although I guess bios/motheroeard could be different, but the memory type looks the same (from my own memory)
<AlanBell> I need to pop round and pick up that microphone at some point :)
<AlanBell> I think the main problem is that the CPU isn't very fast
<DJones> Maybe different, DDR 2700 in the 270 compared to DDR2100 in the 260
<AlanBell> not beefy enough to do the cbbc horrible histories flash games
<AlanBell> well it runs them, but not smoothly
<AlanBell> I might do more of a rearrangement of computers
 * gord requests that popey change his Unicode smiley face to ð¸
<Azelphur> christel: haha, np I got an IRCOp from #freenode to sort it out in the end :)
<SuperEngineer> ok - it's begging time.
<popey> bug 985702
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 985702 in Ubuntu "Ubuntu 12.04 âWindowâ sounds not available" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985702
<SuperEngineer> can someone come up with a package to report bug  #985702 against pretty please?
<AlanBell> gnome-control-center perhaps?
<popey> done
<SuperEngineer> yea gads - that was quick!
<SuperEngineer> crikey - just just the lp page - cheers & thanks again
<popey> np
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: what are window sounds?
<popey> hahahahaahaah
<AlanBell> is that swooshy noises on maximise etc?
<popey> 15:10:40 < SuperEngineer> popey:  in 10.04's  "Sound Preference" there is a separate check-box titled "Enable window & button sounds".  When ticked, even clicking an app icon on panel to  start the app  causes a sound response.  In 12.04 - none of this available to me - no check box is even there.  The check-box in question is at bottom of "sound
<popey>  effects" - i is a separate thing altogether from " Alert volume"
<AlanBell> ah, so when a window appears it makes a sound
<SuperEngineer> more so  on closing or dialogue respond buttons -they're the "boing", "blip" & "bup"  noises if you have them activated
<pndemc_debain> hmm
<bigcalm_laptop> Good evening peeps :)
<davmor2> We are happy cows we chew the cud and browse
 * bigcalm_laptop snoozes into his pint
<davmor2> Hip hop, hippidy, hip hop, don't stop .......
<popey> hmm, ubuntu hung on io wait for a bit, firefox faded out whilst lots of files were being deleted
<popey> now its recovered, the colours are all washed out in ff
<davmor2> Happy hour to us, happy hour to us, happy hour to u-us, happy hour to us!
<bigcalm_laptop> Ink carts need replacing in your screen
<popey> heh
 * bigcalm_laptop shakes fist at computer things
<bigcalm_laptop> 7 mins until the happy hour starts
<bigcalm_laptop> Will I survive that long?
<JohnRobert> is there an easy way to make windows 7 and ubuntu machines 'see' each other.. eg can I set a workgroup somewhere on ubuntu?
 * AlanBell wonders if http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/devscripts/precise/view/head:/scripts/debchange.pl#L434 will be updated soon
<AlanBell> JohnRobert: that sounds like samba sharing you need to look at
<JohnRobert> hmm, nm :p
<AlanBell> normally I think you can try to share a folder with windows and it will prompt you to install the right stuff
<JohnRobert> I just wanted WINS name resolution I think
<JohnRobert> but I have a feeling that'll be asking a lot
<JohnRobert> a lot more than 'just click xyz'
<AlanBell> oh right
<bigcalm_laptop> We've just had our 1st new Happy Hour
<JohnRobert> more like set up a domain controller etc
<AlanBell> I don't know if windows does avahi right
<AlanBell> bigcalm_laptop: yay
<JohnRobert> at a pub?
<JohnRobert> in southampton?
<JohnRobert> real ale?
<bigcalm_laptop> We've just had our 1st new Happy Hour attendee I should say
<AlanBell> s/sou/wolver/
<JohnRobert> :/
<directhex> windows can do avahi. but it's not built in
<directhex> install Bonjour, from apple.com
<MartijnVdS> included with itunes
<directhex> yeah, or don't get itunes
<MartijnVdS> directhex: some people like it to use their ipods with.. or *gasp* buy music
<directhex> freaks
<MartijnVdS> it's the only reason I have itunes on my Windows machine
<ali1234> lolpods
<MartijnVdS> Because U1MS "Western European" store _sucks_
<MartijnVdS> and 7digital _has_ a Netherlands-specific store
<bigcalm_laptop> This ale is good :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_laptop: What kind of ale is it?
<bigcalm_laptop> Ruddler's Best
<bigcalm_laptop> Correct spelling as needed
<MartijnVdS> I need to convince my brothers to brew a nice ale
<MartijnVdS> They're good at that :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_laptop: They made a beer for a competition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfXzAUJI-DA
<bigcalm_laptop> Really looking forward to the RAT in July
<MartijnVdS> train thing?
<bigcalm_laptop> The Real Ale Train :)
<MartijnVdS> cool :)
<czajkowski> evening folks
<popey> pip pip
<czajkowski> in from an Ubuntu hour
<czajkowski> only 4 of us but nice to hear how folks are doing and their reactions to stuff
<czajkowski> one guy has moved him his mum , mum in law and all his family to unity
<czajkowski> they love it
<czajkowski> only has one issue, his son misses some flash thingy for a game, wont work under wine, other that everyone loves it
<czajkowski> other guy was a unity hater when it first came out now likes it and finds it very fast
<czajkowski> another guy dreams of deploying over 400 desktops of Ubuntu
<czajkowski> but is starting small and has removed all servers to Ubuntu
<czajkowski> and all mail is now using zarafa
<czajkowski> for all mail
<pndemc_debain> I still like Gnome 2.3 the best
<czajkowski> http://www.slideshare.net/OpenSourceLGMA/limerick-city-co-open-source-in-practice
<czajkowski> they tried alfresco but didnt go down well internally
<czajkowski> they didnt need training for the mail
<czajkowski> all machines use LO - that did require training
<mattt_> czajkowski: where was this, in ireland?
<czajkowski> yup
 * popey tickles aquarius 
 * popey fiddles with http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UnityDontPanic
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17769049
<ali1234> the XOLO X900 will run android
<popey> says a lot
<ali1234> they might as well have called it the TROLOLO 900
<popey> that india is first market
<popey> haha
<ali1234> why does it say a lot?
<ali1234> or, i mean, what does it say?
<ali1234> they think it's going to suck?
<popey> testing the water
<mgdm> I wonder what the point in distributing a comedy broken version of RVM is
<popey> unlike microsoft who went balls-out with the lumia in america
<ali1234> microsoft does not care about anything outside of america
<popey> true
<ali1234> mainly because they are american
<popey> same could be said for intel
<ali1234> they are american i guess
<popey> but that's not the point
<gordonjcp> popey: hrmm
<gordonjcp> popey: it doesn't have the the words in large friendly letters on the cover
<ali1234> thing is, american market is completely different to the rest of the world
<popey> they clearly haven't found anyone brave enough to take an intel phone to an established market
<ali1234> lso look at the screenshot
<ali1234> that wallpaper is even worse than the ubuntu one
<ali1234> i wonder if it will have a vx capable chip
<ali1234> i bet it won't
<zleap> i have some raspberry pi bits on the way, psu, cables etc
<zleap> all i need now is the ability to order one
<ali1234> popey: regarding unity instructions, i learnt more about unity from doing the checkbox tests than from all the tutorials
<popey> yeah, me too âº
<gordonjcp> popey: re "don't panic", http://t.co/6l2dHZ4G
<ali1234> also if you're going to make some videos please edit them nicely, rather than doing a 1 take special
<popey> \i/ model m
<popey> yeah, was gonna do a lot of small ones
<ali1234> honestly though, if you need to make this comprehesive guide you've already failed
<ali1234> "no no, it is better, you're just not using it properly"
<directhex> moo
<mgdm> evening directhex
<directhex> mgdm, finally done working for the day
<gordonjcp> popey: that's actually pretty much how this whole room looks at the moment
<mgdm> directhex: ouch
<ali1234> how are people going to discover these videos?
<ali1234> reading those notes i realise i don't use most of unity at all
<ali1234> the dash file search is pretty bad :(
<ali1234> online videos thing is barely even functional
<ali1234> it only searches one source at a time
<aquarius> ali1234, what makes you think that the online video lens only searches one source at a time?
<ali1234> because it only returns results from one source
<ali1234> if you click on all the other sources in the filtering, it will return results from only one of them
<ali1234> disable that source and it will return results from one of the others
<aquarius> I've just searched for "rory sutherland" and got results from ted talks and youtube education, as an example
<aquarius> some of the sources are country-specific, which might have something to do with it.
<ali1234> i just got 24 results from bing video
<directhex> bing!
<directhex> bing is such a crap search engine, it's the single worst bit about WP7
<ali1234> ok i see the problem
<aquarius> I use bing search rather than google search on my phone, just to see what it's like
<ali1234> if the first thing it searches returns more than 24 results, you don't see any more results
<ali1234> also if you enable all sources maually rather than clicking "all" it doesn't work at all
<aquarius> heh. We've been tweaking the algorithm for how it merges results from different searches
<aquarius> work is going on on that front as we speak :)
<popey> works here
<aquarius> enabling all sources ought to work, though. If that doesn't work, that's a bug.
<popey> with everything ticked
<popey> doesn't actually return enough results to fill the screen though â¹
<aquarius> are there results you'd expect that it's not returning?
<ali1234> how do i report bugs against this?
<ali1234> or rather where?
<popey> ubuntu-bug ubuntu-lens-video I'd imagine
<popey> hmm, maybe not
<popey> s/ubuntu/unity
<ali1234> i will update first and try again
<popey> right, if i start a new search with all boxes ticked I get no results
<popey> if you start with all ticked, then untick all and tick each one the results must be cached
<aquarius> the dash file search being bad is, in my opinion, because everyone said "dammit I hate tracker running all the time eating all my ram" and turned it off. But just my opinion :)
<popey> seems to max out at 25 hits
<ali1234> if i untick any single one i get results instantly
<popey> i have room on my screen for 45 results
<popey> only ever fills half the screen
<aquarius> I forget how many matches it maxes out at, but there is a limit, I think. Sounds like worthy of bug-filing
<aquarius> and ali1234's issue, too
<ali1234> well i do hate tracker running all the time eating al my ram
<aquarius> then you don't get good searching, I fear. :)
<ali1234> that's why i don't use the file search ever
<ali1234> i just open nautilus and go to the file
<popey> its 25
<popey> 6x4 + 1 or 5x5
<popey> it should max out at $whatever_fits_on_screen_plus_some
<aquarius> that makes it much, much harder to cache the results
<aquarius> because you want 45 and I want 25
<aquarius> which makes searches slower
<aquarius> I'm not saying that it's a bad idea, you'll note
<aquarius> I'm just making the case for the opposite :)
<ali1234> it doesn't make very good use of screen space either
<popey> bug 985923
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 985923 in unity-lens-video (Ubuntu) "Video lens returns too few hits" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985923
<ali1234> by default i get one column of results and then a big space
<aquarius> that sounds like a bug as well
<popey> bed
<popey> nn
<aquarius> ttfn popey
<aquarius> ali1234, do you mean you get one row?
<ali1234> no, i mean i get one column
<aquarius> that sounds like a bug, then :)
<aquarius> I only get one row, but I've just hit the "see 21 more results" expander :)
<ali1234> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/102631792/Screenshot%20from%202012-04-19%2023%3A13%3A19.png
<ali1234> also why do i have to open the filter and then open sources?
<aquarius> heh. that looks like a bug in the lens layout thingy
<ali1234> why not just have the sources always visible when the filter bit is open?
<aquarius> don't know
<aquarius> it'd be worth filing that as a bug too, I think
<aquarius> right, off to bed for me. later, all
<ali1234> oh, it kind of makes sense in the context of the other filter sections which have multiple ways of filtering
<ali1234> fair enough for that then
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-lens-video/+bug/985930
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 985930 in unity-lens-video (Ubuntu) "no results when manually selecting all sources" [Undecided,New]
 * JamesTait_ waves at JamesTait.
 * JamesTait waves back at JamesTait_ 
<JamesTait> Hm, well that seems to kind of work.
<JamesTait> Has anyone else tried the chat integration in Thunderbird Dailies?
<AlanBell> popey: can you set 873082 to fixed?
<AlanBell> never mind, you can't because it is a duplicate
<christel> ;1
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-20
<siya> Anyone here know how to just write a toc file to a cdr(w)?
<siya> cdrdao wants valid wav files but I only want to write the toc not the rest
<gordonjcp> siya: why just a toc file?
<gordonjcp> tbh I think you'd actually need audio frames to match the toc anyway
<siya> trying to recover a blanked audio cdrw
<gordonjcp> ah
<siya> I know the audio is there just don't want to over write them
<siya> can write to the cd but not read it
<gordonjcp> I wonder if you can just pull the audio off with something and recover it later?
<siya> I'd live to but dd won't work
<siya> s/live/love/
<gordonjcp> dd won't work with an audio cd, since it's not a filesystem
<siya> indeed
<siya> cdrdao says the disk is empty
<siya> can;t tell it to ignore the toc and read the rest
<siya> some other app/site says that it depends on the drive if you can read it
<gordonjcp> maybe hacking on cdrdao would be a good place to start though
<siya> have tried about 6 or 7 drives and none allow me to read it
<siya> it seems the drive firmware return disk-empty to the OS, rather than allowing the OS direct access to the disk
<siya> so if i can write a new toc (raw write to disk)
<siya> then I should be good
<siya> just want to write a toc w a single audio track of the entire length of the disk
<siya> then I can use audacity to cut the audio out of the ripped data (pcm/wav)
<siya> Maybe I need to just write raw data to the disk
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Morning
<diplo> Morning all
<ramsrambo> Need help installing Ubuntu 12 beta 2
<MartijnVdS> ê
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :)
<DJones> A quiet friday even
<popey> shh
<gord> quiet would be nice :)
<oimon> always kick myself for running beta on my work PC
<oimon> can't report crashes unless i run dist-upgrade every morning
<gord> guy next doors wifi is somehow stronger than my own wifi, all my ubuntu's keep trying to connect to "frednet" :(
<oimon> is his bandwidth better?
<gordonjcp> heh
<gord> its secured, i've no idea why they keep trying to connect
<gordonjcp> I used to have that problem
<gordonjcp> I just turned up my output power
<oimon> until you craked it?
<oimon> maybe your cat tried connecting once gord
<gord> with HUD, anything is possible
<oimon> keep forgetting to use HDU
<oimon> HUD
<popey> s/use/write/
<popey> hmm
 * popey gets more coffee
<gord> the trick to using hud is to make a connection in your brain from "ugh i have to use a menu...", which i get a lot when using gimp, to "oh i can just type it"
<oimon> my machine is in a state, need to restart
<oimon> compiz + unity have conspired against me
<popey> aquarius: i am pondering not syncing my entire music folder to u1, but syncing each band instead
<popey> aquarius: that way i can choose which bands I have on each device
<aquarius> popey, what, as separate folders?
<popey> rather than having to have everything everywhere
<popey> yes
<popey> within music
<aquarius> yep, you could do that, indeed
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ du -hs Music/
<popey> 23G	Music/
<popey> not a huge amount at the moment tbh
<aquarius> stupid question: music streaming doesn't fulfil something you need?
<gord> or you could not sync the music folder to each device and use other means to play the music
<aquarius> (since that lets you cache only stuff you want)
<popey> hmmm
<oimon> popey is hmming a lot today
<oimon> just enabled osd history to show recent notifications :D
 * popey uploads his music to google play while he thinks about it
<gord> aquarius, is there any reason that getting a list of music in the android music client is still reeeeeeeally slow? i'm wondering if its something on my side
 * oimon wants to do that, needs a tor browser
<popey> tor?
<oimon> is that how you did it popey ?
<oimon> sign up to g music?
<aquarius> gord, it is, I suspect, not you
<popey> i cant remember
<gord> :(
<oimon> you need a proxy or tor exit node in the states
<popey> oh i worked for xerox and our proxy was in the us
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<aquarius> gord, we cache your music listing, but after the cache times out it needs to be regenerated, and at the moment regenerating it is slower than we'd like. It's being worked on right now, that
 * popey decides not to upload to google play while U1 is still uploading
<diplo> I keep debating U1 Music as at least it will just work
<diplo> Two minds I guess
<gord> u1 music has worked great for me apart from this one thing
<diplo> I store all my music on my media server, what are the commands like to allow what I want to sync via cli only ?
<diplo> Easy ?
<diplo> I guess you get it free as a staff member gord ?
<gord> i do
<gord> and there is no cli syncing iirc
<diplo> Hmm the faq are very spares, "File Sync & Sharing" is totally empty :/
<diplo> sparce*
<iclebyte> morning all
<brobostigon> !info gnome-shell unstable
<lubotu3> gnome-shell (source: gnome-shell): graphical shell for the GNOME desktop. In component main, is optional. Version 3.2.2.1-3 (unstable), package size 350 kB, installed size 940 kB
<popey> diplo: you can run a headless u1 client
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diplo> yeah just trying to find some details popey
<oimon> how do i choose a tor exit node in a particular country (US?)
<diplo> U1 Faq are a bit sparse
<diplo> Might spell it correctly this time
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Headless
<diplo> ta
<popey> oimon: nice that there is an ubuntu compatible google music client so you can easily upload your tracks
<SuperEngineer_> morning all - U1 interesting fact...
<SuperEngineer_> if you have folder name tarting with "#" it fails on that folder!
<SuperEngineer_> *starting
<Myrtti> would anyone happen to have old O'Reilly animal books that have fallen into disuse are about a version or a product that is no longer in use?
<Myrtti> s/disuse are/disuse or are/
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I have a few
<oimon> popey, really? what's it called
<popey> Google Music Manager
<oimon> just managed to sign up 5secs ago
<Myrtti> bigcalm: excellent, don't throw them away, I might want to buy them off your hands
<oimon> google is offering me an .exe
<bigcalm> Myrtti: free to a good home :)
<bigcalm> Though p&p might need to be covered as they aren't the lightest of things
<Myrtti> bigcalm: or bring them over if we end up going to a same event or something
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I struggle to throw away anything computer related
<bigcalm> Myrtti: that's what I was thinking
<bigcalm> Are you coming to the RAT?
<bigcalm> I don't think you said you were going to oggcamp
<popey> oimon: deb http://dl.google.com/linux/musicmanager/deb/ stable main
<popey> thats from my google-musicmanager.list
<Myrtti> bigcalm: oggcamp is still pending, it's a week after I'll be on the archeological dig
<popey> which I didnt put there, it probably did
<Myrtti> and no I don't think we were thinking of going to RAT
<Myrtti> mind you, I'm not planning to *read* them.
<Myrtti> I just have a usecase that involves the pages :-P
<Myrtti> (and O'Reilly hasn't responded to my email)
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> popey: have you sorted out a backlog plugin for irssi proxy usage?
<popey> no
<Myrtti> although if I tell you what I'm planning to use them for Hayley might find better use for the books for her projects...
<Myrtti> hm.
<bigcalm> Myrtti: don't worry, you have 1st dibs :)
<SuperEngineer_> weird info for a crash report to give: "The report belongs to a package that is not installed."
<bigcalm> Nice
<SuperEngineer_> that's *really* gonna help the application's developers huh
<Myrtti> bigcalm: email incoming :-P
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Liam Proven] Anyone using the backported kernels on Lucid? I'm seeing driver problems. - http://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/28810.html
<bigcalm> Myrtti: no worries, Hayley isn't at all geeky like us :S
<bigcalm> I like the idea, you should run with it
<Laney> wooh
<Laney> I found my passport. Thank god for that
<bigcalm> UDS bound?
<Laney> aye lad
<gord> i need to get my roomba a cape
 * popey knows his is on his desk somewhere
<gord> it deserves a cape
<gord> mine was on my desk, then i moved it to keep it safe, now i have no idea where it is
<bigcalm> gord: does your cat ride the roomba?
<gord> my cats mortal enemy is the roomba
<bigcalm> Boo :(
<bigcalm> gord: your cat fails at the Internet
<oimon> cheers popey. uploaded some songs, no album art though :(
<oimon> anyone tried downloading their songs again?
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> bigcalm: good day yesterday even if I was knackered and in pain thanks for helping it be so :)
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> I think it went a lot better than we feared it might
<davmor2> :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: people in the midlands hate signing up to stuff I told you
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> It was great to have somebody completely new just turn up out of the blue. Had computer problems which we helped him with
<bigcalm> I can't imagine a better example of what the Happy Hour is about
<czajkowski> gord: http://xkcd.com/908/
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: Good morning
<oimon> gah..hard freeze on my machine
<oimon> only sysreq-B recovered it
<popey> did someone here mention good 2TB drives to buy these days?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] Finding things - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2012/04/passport-found/
<czajkowski> Laney: you link to previous post is a 404
<Laney> so it is
<Laney> I made it work on the index but it broke it there
<Laney> WTF
<gord> popey, my seagate barracudas are doing me very well, 2TB, slower rpm than the other barracudas but that doesn't really matter for me
<popey> thats what i was gonna get, thanks âº
<Laney> i'll never understand wikilinks
<gord> never had a barracuda fail on me yet :) love them
<czajkowski> Laney: where does one get bread beer
<czajkowski> looks interesting
<Laney> me mam got it from the US
<Laney> it was horrible btw
<czajkowski> oh :/
<directhex> beer is liquid bread. it's good for you.
<popey> gord: 7200 or 5900rpm?
<czajkowski> scratch that so
<Laney> that could have been the beer I used though (homebrew)
<directhex> the worst beer i ever had ever was a morrisons' own brand hot cross bun beer.
<Pendulum> I've heard of beer bread, but not bread beer
<popey> 5900's are only 81 quid inc vat!
<BigRedS> oooh
<Pendulum> (beer bread is yummy, but you probably do need to use decent beer)
<directhex> i just bought a new 3T disk.
<BigRedS> I'm after a couple of TB of disk, twice
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/248582-seagate-2tb-3-5-sata-6gb-s-hard-drive-5900rpm-64mb-cache-st2000dl003
<gord> popey, 5900
<popey> cool, ta
<popey> gonna load up my microserver
<gord> they were 50 quid when i got them :P
<diplo> gord, popey : I have  same drives in my Micro
<gord> picked up a bunch of them
<BigRedS> I think I'm gonna buy a pair of those on payday
<diplo> Same price as well :) really wish i bought 4
<Laney> oh GOD why won't this wikilink work
<BigRedS> wikilink?
<BigRedS> oh, link in a wiki?
<Laney> correct
<BigRedS> if it's mediawiki post it up and I'll see if I can see what's up. But normally they're pretty simple...
<Laney> it is ikiwiki
<popey> yay, ordered
<davmor2> Laney: to annoy you
<Laney> it is definitely managing that
<davmor2> bigcalm: can you email ren with an email with the suggestion you made for the repeater please, pretty sure you'll state it better than I will
<bigcalm> davmor2: sure, send me her address when you have time
<Laney> fixed it...
<Laney> -An exciting update on my [previous post](../passport). I found it this morning.
<Laney> +An exciting update on my [[previous post|passport]]. I found it this morning.
<Laney> yeah I was using the wrong syntax.
<BigRedS> aha!
<BigRedS> markdown ftw generally, though
<Laney> quite
<Laney> http://paste.debian.net/163936/ only took a few tries
<BigRedS> haha
<syruss> does anyone know what that diy electronics project/usb kit thing is called?
<syruss> geek kit or something
<syruss> it's a usb i/o interface for making leds flash, wiring up lcd displays etc aimed at beginner-ish electronics hobbyists and young adults
<syruss> comes with some C code etc to get started
<syruss> and also python stuff I think
<syruss> ahhh nerdkits
<syruss> got it
<syruss> :)
<czajkowski> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-17784585 oh could be interesting to see a mozilla phone
<BigRedS> anyone else find that anything copied out of the address bar of firefox has 'http://' prepended to it and a '/' appended?
<Myrtti> derp. http://imgur.com/ZQanB :-D
<ali1234> whut
<TheOpenSourcerer> Myrtti: I got that too :-)
<ali1234> should i not update today then?
<Myrtti> ali1234: it was only about flashplayer-nonfree
<Myrtti> which still seems to work a-ok
<syruss> can anyone recommend a simple gnome dvb-t viewing app?
<syruss> tvtime was the last time I did anything like this
<syruss> :p
<davmor2> syruss: type in dvb-t in software-center  there are a few including a totem plugin (not sure how well that works though) tvtime is still about though
<MartijnVdS> the totem (gnome-dvb) bits are a bit crashy
<MartijnVdS> at least with my DVB stick
<syruss> cool, ta
<syruss> dunno if tvtime does dvb..
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> vlc does
<MartijnVdS> but crappily
<MartijnVdS> I use w_scan to generate the channel list
<MartijnVdS> and mplayer to watch
<syruss> hmm
<syruss> well me-tv doesn't work at all
<syruss> sort of
<syruss> hmm
 * SuperEngineer notices rom topic that diplo  is still eating baby goats
<SuperEngineer> *from
<diplo> Nah, my children :)
<diplo> So, 12.04... the app bar showing on both screens on dual set up
<diplo> Normal behaviour ?
<SuperEngineer> wot - the app bar or the kids?
<diplo> app bar :)
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting TBA #ubuntu-uk-meeting | NOT LONG NOW!
<SuperEngineer> hmm - only comparison I have is on screen - with compiz expo activated [assuming you mean the launcher?] - the launcher is one big bar down side even though all 4 workspaces shown
<SuperEngineer> darn! no more kiddie eating for you diplo
<Mez> Well... I didn't realise it was release day.
 * Mez fails
<diplo> 26th isn't it ?
<Mez> oh wow - I'm even failing.
 * Mez headwalls
<Mez> wake me up
<agoodm> diplo, you can choose the desired bevaviour in the display setup
<bigcalm> The Britannia Adelphi has no hold music
<bigcalm> It's most strange
<agoodm> surprising for such a bigplace
<agoodm> mind you most phone systems only include rubbish hold music
<bigcalm> Call now dropped
<bigcalm> Blah
<agoodm> and most phone systems have support for line level moh input, however most moh players are crap and reliable/good ones are expensive
<bigcalm> Will try again later
<diplo> Cheers agoodm
<agoodm> diplo, my pleasure
<JohnRobert> hmm
<JohnRobert> anyone know where the dvb transmitter files such as uk-Crystalpalace are in 12.04?
<JohnRobert> the files don't seem to be there any more
<directhex> JohnRobert, were they ever useful? as compared to scanning yourself?
<popey> JohnRobert: dvb-utils
<popey>    /usr/share/doc/dvb-utils/examples/scan/dvb-t/uk-CrystalPalace
<selinuxium> Got this when trying to initialise for the first time.... http://pastebin.com/zM3Qxf90
<selinuxium> Anyway... that isn't actually the real question! :)
<selinuxium> Can I use Talend to transform a flat text file into data using an overlay..
<JohnRobert> cwell turns out my dvb-t thing isn't supported
<selinuxium>  Anyway... that isn't actually the real question! :)
<selinuxium>  Can I use Talend to transform a flat text file into data using an overlay..
<selinuxium> Grr...
<davmor2> JohnRobert: do you see the jockey logo in the indicator bar saying there are drivers to install?  normally if it knows about the hw and needs a driver that will trigger
 * bigcalm hisses at jockey
<davmor2> bigcalm: a nice fresh install is what you need dude done by gord so he can fix it as he goes ;)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Doesn't take long to re-set-up a system, so a re-install might be on the cards next weekend or so
<Myrtti> nice - flash broke and I can't play Settlers Online anymore :-|
<popey> new disks should be here tomorrow
<popey> now to plan how to raid them
<popey> 8 in one server, 4 in the other
<davmor2> bigcalm: that might fix the issue you were having with that workbench app not showing up too
<bigcalm> davmor2: maybe so
<diplo> I see the dual  monitor support still isn't great
<diplo> :/
 * diplo trys freshly tomorrow
<diplo> Hmm monday would be better
<davmor2> http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0808/the-eighties-nostalgia-humor-80s-demotivational-poster-1219688830.jpg how many can you name ?
<MartijnVdS> too many
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I got 26 and I think there are 30
<MartijnVdS> exactly. Too many.
<BigRedS> whoop! I'm in london for the release do
<bigcalm> Lucky you
<popey> yay
<popey> also, we're hiring!
<davmor2> I'm not I think I'll still be testing stuff
<MartijnVdS> popey: again?
<popey> https://t.co/eC0w6Dod
<popey> yup
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: always
<popey> stupid twitter
<popey> https://plus.google.com/109365858706205035322/posts/b98QuF4rCZ8
<popey> gonna be loads more roles coming up over the next few months
<popey> crazy amounts of work
<BigRedS> I swear Canonical's aiming to get to the point where everyone I know works at canonical
 * bigcalm eyes the web-dev role
<BigRedS> I even found a distant family member who works for Canonical a few months back
<bigcalm> Would be nice to know how much was being offered
<davmor2> popey: tell me about it :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: they never do
<bigcalm> Attack of the clones
<daftykins> bug 562640
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 562640 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) ""Guernsey" being chosen automatically sets USA keyboard layout instead of UK." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/562640
<daftykins> only 2 years on and there's some movement!
<davmor2> hmmmm tempting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZcEPLMALxY
<JohnRobert> lol
<davmor2> popey: could this be your next desktop ^
<JohnRobert> shame about the music
<daftykins> what a shockingly pants video
<daftykins> with yep, nasty music
<davmor2> JohnRobert: indeed
<JohnRobert> I'm more interested in low powered fanless machines that are cheap
<JohnRobert> if I were to get something like that I'd never use it to its full potential at all.. I mostly use..vim and emacs
<JohnRobert> I'd maybe try a game for about 5 mins
<JohnRobert> getting old :/
<JohnRobert> I remember when stuff like that excited me
<JohnRobert> :p
<daftykins> hardwares too good now really
<daftykins> if i upgraded to Ivy Bridge when they're out, i'd be going from a Q6600 on LGA775
<daftykins> be hardly any point
<daftykins> going to that from an Athlon XP... now that felt different
<daftykins> but yeah hardware = yawn these days
<daftykins> i like putting it together for others though - all the Christmas morning feeling with no spending!
<jacobw> evening
<JohnRobert> I
<JohnRobert> I'm going to maybe build my dad an ivybridge machine
<JohnRobert> as him and his wife are into video editing birds and stuff they see in the forest
<JohnRobert> could be quite fun... shame it's windows though
<daftykins> ah right
<daftykins> tut tut :P
<JohnRobert> are there any good vid editing tools in linux yet?
<jacobw> yes
<daftykins> doubt anyone'd agree if there were
<JohnRobert> it's a shame there's nothing of the 'blender' like calibre last time I looked
<JohnRobert> without the quotes
<jacobw> i think openshot is the most used package
<JohnRobert> it's a real shame this chan is logged :/
<JohnRobert> like when you say something you regret saying on the wrong channel by accident
<jacobw> i'm quite happy with this channel being logged
<JohnRobert> I was
<JohnRobert> well I guess I still am
<ali1234> JohnRobert: nuke, but it is commercial
<ali1234> http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/nuke/
<JohnRobert> lol, first image that comes up is from tron 3d
<JohnRobert> makes me think it might be a bit more than they need
<JohnRobert> :p
<ali1234> cinelerra is ok, if you can get it to work
<popey> davmor2: wow
<davmor2> popey: I bet that would run themehospital :D
<ali1234> rhythmbox automatically knows as soon as you copy music into the music folder
<popey> hah
<ali1234> that never worked in banshee...
<davmor2> ali1234: that's cause RB rocks
<jacobw> inotify?
<ali1234> it also knows as soon as you delete stuff
<ali1234> yeah probably inotify... i don't really care how it works, i just like that it works :)
<jacobw> i've been finding banshee unsatisfactory since version 0.11
<davmor2> ali1234: more importantly it knows what track is play in an ogg radio station unlike banshee
<ali1234> only thing banshee had going for it was the album view that shows covers (and fetches covers automatically)
<ali1234> and the automatic metadata fixing was good too
<daftykins> i always found something not to like about both
<gordonjcp> ali1234: the not deleting files it can't play thing is good, compared to rhythmbox
<ali1234> yeah but with banshee if you go and delete those files from disk they stay in the library, which sucks
<ali1234> if you have two copies of an album the tracks are interleaved and you have to manually delete each track
<popey> the problem is that if you have music in another folder you can't import (and copy) the files using rb
<popey> you can with banshee
<ali1234> with rythmbox you just go and delete one of the directories with nautilus and it is gone
<ali1234> yeah with rhythmbox you don't have to import music that way
<davmor2> popey: you can it's the import option in the menu
<ali1234> just copy the music with nautilus
<ali1234> and it appears in rhythmbox
<ali1234> that means you can use tools designed for copying files for copying files
<ali1234> and tools designed for playing music for playing music
<ali1234> instead of having to use the tool for playing music to copy the files
<popey> davmor2: no, it isnt
<popey> i have a folder full of mp3s
<popey> if I import to rb, it leaves them where they are
<popey> it doesn't move/copy them to ~/Music
<ali1234> that's what it should do
<popey> which I want it to do
<ali1234> if you want to move or copy them, use nautilus
<popey> nah, it should be optional like banshee
<ali1234> no it shouldn't
<ali1234> it should not exist as an option
<popey> ok, i dont care what you think, i want this
<popey> and banshee does it
<popey> so i have used that
<ali1234> copying the files in nautilus automaticaly imports them anyway
<davmor2> popey: ah sorry I thought that was what you were getting at my bag
<popey> not the way i want
<popey> the folder is full of mp3s, I want them in separate folders ~/Music/band name/album name/track.mp3
<popey> and banshee will do that (optionally) for me, rb wont
<ali1234> that whole copy on import was really dumb
<popey> it was off by default
<ali1234> if i just want to play the music on an external drive i don't want to wait 8 hours for it to copy all 500GB of it
<ali1234> if i do want to copy it then i'll use the file manager because that's what it is for
<davmor2> popey: ah I'm pretty sure there was a plugin that did better organising but I might of been dreaming
<davmor2> popey: that or mixing banshee's plugins and RB's
<daftykins> i seem to remember a player having copy on import on as default
<ali1234> also, it wasn't off by default originally
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> however arguing that an option shouldn't be present is unproductive, if you don't use it you don't use it
<ali1234> ha
<ali1234> so when we going to get the option for launcher dodge back then?
<daftykins> what's more relevant is Guernsey getting given US keyboard layouts! GOD DAMN IT!
<daftykins> ah yes i was gonna confirm that with a VM
<daftykins> time to download Precise desktop beta 2 to Guernsey
<daftykins> \o/
<davmor2> ali1234: popey: Album art fetcher and file organizing http://live.gnome.org/RhythmboxPlugins/ThirdParty
<ali1234> yeah but does it actually display it?
<ali1234> http://banshee-media-player.2283330.n4.nabble.com/file/n4269338/Screenshot-Banshee_Media_Player-1.png
<gordonjcp> does anyone in here use tcpreplay, and if they do would you care to take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tcpreplay/+bug/971990
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 971990 in tcpreplay (Ubuntu) "tcpprep crashes with a "buffer overflow detected" message" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> Azelphur: yer website's broken
<Azelphur> which one
<ali1234> azelphur.com
<Azelphur> ah, I moved to blog.azelphur.com
<Azelphur> I should probably redirect azelphur.com to it
<ali1234> at least put some adverts on it or something
<Azelphur> haha
<jacobw> what does one use if one does not use wordpress?
<ali1234> drupal
<ali1234> but wordpress is miles better
<Azelphur> if by better you mean worse
 * Azelphur runs
<ali1234> by better i mean "supports the ability to put images on your webpage"
<jacobw> i'll learn django one day
<MartijnVdS> http://www.myspace.com/djangotime !
<jacobw> ah, yes :)
<jacobw> btw, i still hate perl
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: But Perl loves you
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: We're going to do a project in python at work!
<jacobw> \o/
<JohnRobert> I'm writing a plugin for wordpress right now
<JohnRobert> wp is alright
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: poor you
<MartijnVdS> uihr
<MartijnVdS> JohnRobert: poor you
<MartijnVdS> it's php
<JohnRobert> nothing wrong with php
<MartijnVdS> JohnRobert: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
<JohnRobert> lol
<MartijnVdS> Nothing funny about that page :(
<JohnRobert> sounds like your nitpicking
<JohnRobert> :p
<JohnRobert> sure it's scrappy
<JohnRobert> but it does the job
<jacobw> crackers love php
<MartijnVdS> until you need to maintain your code a few months from now, because the PHP people decided to throw out a language feature without warning
<MartijnVdS> or add one named just like your function
<JohnRobert> wow
<JohnRobert> that is a big article
<MartijnVdS> Exactly :)
<JohnRobert> I've been coding php for about...too long
<MartijnVdS> never too soon to learn python ;)
<JohnRobert> I know a bit of python, I've dabbled
<JohnRobert> ultimately it's probably harder for me to be a web developer if I'm a python programmer
<JohnRobert> your blog argument seems to be based on the ideal world rather than the real world.
<gordonjcp> JohnRobert: how so (re python making it hard to be a web dev)
<JohnRobert> in an ideal world, I'd stop what I'm doing right now and carefully plan my project out with pencil and paper, learn a more robust language etc etc
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: because you have to think before you type ;)
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: and thinking is HARD :P
<JohnRobert> well for a start, when my client asks me to write her a wordpress plugin it's going to be harder in python.
<JohnRobert> especially seeing as she wants it to run on her webserver
<gordonjcp> JohnRobert: well that's just being stupid
<gordonjcp> of *course* it is
<JohnRobert> why?
<gordonjcp> that's like my client asking me to make her a cylinder head gasket out of bread
<hamitron> isn't it better harder?
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: that's what SHE said.
<MartijnVdS> *cough*
<hamitron> hang on, I didnt mean that
<hamitron> >:|
<gordonjcp> I make really really good bread, but it's totally unsuitable for high-compression high-temperature environments
<hamitron> if it is harder.... it is harder for them to replace you ;)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: ah the job security argument :)
<JohnRobert> put it this way, would it make sense for me to stop what I'm doing.. learn python, learn to find work with python etc..etc..
<gordonjcp> JohnRobert: it depends
<JohnRobert> maybe become homeless in the process
<jacobw> its not mutually exclusive
<JohnRobert> there are a lot more php jobs than python
<JohnRobert> etc
<MartijnVdS> Most people only need one job :)
<JohnRobert> your argument certainly holds weight for hobbyists though
<gordonjcp> JohnRobert: if you're freelancing and the customer could not be persuaded with a big stick to care about what you use to construct the site, then you may find that Python works better for you
<JohnRobert> I like python
<gordonjcp> certainly one of the big uberframeworks like Django will take a hell of a lot of the work out of it
<JohnRobert> I wrote something to scrape a site once with beautiful soup and python once
<JohnRobert> was fun
<JohnRobert> and pleasing
<gordonjcp> flask is nice
<ali1234> making a plugin for wordpress really is extremely easy
<ali1234> much easier than writing a django module
<daftykins> hmm, i wonder if i should avoid sleeping in this freshly painted room tonight... (only one wall painted mind!)
<ali1234> i love python and hate php but it is still easier
<gordonjcp> daftykins: I just sprayed a lot of my bedroom wall with mould killer, having found mould growing under the wallpaper
<gordonjcp> so, that's me sleeping either in the living room or the studio
<daftykins> yeah that stuff can be strong
<gordonjcp> ali1234: I don't think it's easier to write a wordpress plugin than a django app
<gordonjcp> but <shrug>
<ali1234> oh it really is
<gordonjcp> I've written more django apps than wp plugins, so maybe it's down to experience
<ali1234> i've written two django apps and one wp plugin
<gordonjcp> well, for one thing, the wp plugin is in php
<gordonjcp> which isn't really human-readable
<ali1234> i agree
<ali1234> but yo can work around that
<ali1234> if you split your code out using semi-MVC style
<ali1234> django needs way more boilerplate than it should for a python app
<gordonjcp> not sure what you mean, there
<ali1234> but a django app is a lot more than a plugin
<ali1234> i mean a wp plugin extends wordpress
<ali1234> with django there is nothing to extend, you are starting from scratch when it comes to user facing stuff
<ali1234> you can't really compare them
<ali1234> if you want a standard blog with some custom feature you will get it a lot easier from wordpress
<ali1234> but if you want a totally custom site then django will be easier
<gordonjcp> well yeah, django is a framework
<gordonjcp> it is more like cakephp than wordpress
<ali1234> wordpress offers a framework too
<gordonjcp> I guess wordpress would be more like mezzanine
<ali1234> but it is a framework centered around blogs rather than completely generic
<czajkowski> https://plus.google.com/111104121194250082892/posts/D2feRNc6R4d intersting read
<AlanBell> so is this https://plus.google.com/u/0/109365858706205035322/posts/FDBTM3JPKT8
<MartijnVdS> LOLpopey
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I didn't really understand that patch thing very much (I can see Alan Cox isn't that impressed)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ROFLOL
<daftykins> he's not happy with his mapaint shades
<daftykins> *mspaint
<DJones> AlanBell: Wierdest thing, as I clicked on that link, guess which advert came on the tv
<AlanBell> was it epic?
<daftykins> toilet duck
<DJones> It was definately an epic advert, much better than the gocompare ad's
<ali1234> are those shades photoshopped on?
<AlanBell> what shades?
<ali1234> on alan cox's profile picture
<AlanBell> well I seriously doubt that photoshop had anything to do with it
<ali1234> well clearly, photoshop would have done a much better job of it
<ali1234> someone call the seams police
 * hamitron worries why guys in here are looking at profile pictures of such people
<daftykins> see where i said 'mspaint'
<daftykins> hamitron: you don't find him hawt?
<daftykins> :P
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> brb moving stuff downstairs, decided working away in a recently painted room is probably bad for my health
<daftykins> kinda handy having an empty 4 bed place to move around in XD
<daftykins> wow, tough crowd
<DJones> Heh
<dogmatic69> whats the chances of running diablo III on ubuntu 12?
<hamitron> does it run on wine?
<hamitron> http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=13484
<hamitron> looking good
<dogmatic69> :O
<dogmatic69> if is good \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-21
<ali1234> http://spaceappschallenge.org/
<ali1234> even nasa wants in on this bubble
<cocoa117> anyone know kde-config is still in ubuntu 11.10?
<Mostovoi> hi
<MartijnVdS> Good morning everyone!
<popey> Morning
<AlanBell> morning
<popey> AlanBell: yummy eggs thanks
<AlanBell> :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<AlanBell> evryone filled this in? http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/
<AlanBell> tempted by one of these http://www.ebuyer.com/268244-ocz-120gb-agility-3-ssd-agt3-25sat3-120g-agt3-25sat3-120g
<popey> you got that spam too huh?
<popey> thats what I have in my thinkpad
<popey> (the 240GB version)
<popey> it's double-plus quick
<AlanBell> yeah, might go for a 240GB
<AlanBell> just doing an analysis of what the 250GB in /home/alan actuall is
<popey> heh
<popey> i did the same
<popey> /dev/sda1            216G  153G   53G  75% /
<AlanBell> I think I can remove a heap of old/duplicate VM images
<popey> not basd
<popey> *bad
<popey> yeah, VM, ISO, music and photo is what eats mine
<popey> so i unsubbed from my Ubuntu One Pictures folder and deleted all my photos
<popey> now I just let my desktop sync those, it has 1TB of rust and 120GB of ssd as root
<AlanBell> 6GB photos and 1.3GB of music, it isn't that. 20GB in Downloads.
<AlanBell> 4GB in desktop (which consists of various levels, where I occasionally create a folder called "desktop crap" on the desktop and drag everything into it
<AlanBell> )
<AlanBell> I have no idea how deep that tree goes
<popey> haha, i do that too
<popey> which I have now moved to my server as "unsorted crap"
<gordonjcp> heh
<gordonjcp> yup, sounds familiar
<gordonjcp> also, do you do that thing where you go "ah, I'll wipe this drive, but I'll just copy /home somewhere first..."
<shauno> and then never touch 'oldhome' ever again
<gordonjcp> only to find that its /home contains several layers of going "ah, I'll just copy /home..."
<jacobw> morning
<jacobw> i don't seem to have /home management problems
<gordonjcp> I don't either
<gordonjcp> I just have multiple backups
<jacobw> i just acquire things and order them by title and date if i think i might want  them again
<jacobw> looking at moore's law on wikipedia, i now know who g. e. moore is
<AlanBell> 131GB of virtualbox VMs
<AlanBell> 20GB .thunderbird which is a bit more than I thought it would be
<popey> yes gordonjcp
<popey> drwx------ 1 root root   0 Apr 21 11:24 needs_sorting
<dutchie> ooh AlanBell that looks tempting
<AlanBell> SSD is quite hard to choose
<cocoa117> anyone know how to install kde-config package in ubuntu 11.10 64 bit? it appears in kde4 doesn't have kde-config anymore, it only exist in kde3
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I've ordered an Intel 330 120GB
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: because I like my current Intel 520
<AlanBell> cocoa117: tried the #kubuntu channel?
<penguin42> cocoa117: I can see there are still kde-config-whatever modules for individual bits
<cocoa117> penguin42, yes, but when actually run apt-get install, it doesn't have the package
<penguin42> cocoa117: apt-get install on which package?
<cocoa117> penguin42, sudo apt-get install kdelibs4c2a
<cocoa117> penguin42, i was first searching package content with kde-config, and it shows this package contain it
<penguin42> cocoa117: oh this is 11.10 - hmm, I've got 12.04 on here and we're upto kdelibs5
<penguin42> cocoa117: I never used kde-config - what does it do?
<cocoa117> penguin42, i was compiling a package for Kaffeine, which in the ./configure it said it need kde-config
<penguin42> hmm not sure
<ali1234> trey kdelibs-bin
<ali1234> ~info kdelibs-bin oneiric
<ali1234> !info kdelibs-bin oneiric
<lubotu3> kdelibs-bin (source: kde4libs): core executables for KDE Applications. In component main, is optional. Version 4:4.7.4-0ubuntu0.1 (oneiric), package size 200 kB, installed size 936 kB
<cocoa117> ali1234, lubotu3, it have already installed and no kde-config found
<popey> afternoon
<mgdm> 'ello
<mgdm> popey: didn't know you were in Young Dracula! http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvs3lj1kex1qzuidpo3_500.jpg :P
<mgdm> (see while channel surfing, obv...)
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> how can I remotely control my dad's ubuntu machine, considering he doesn't know much about computers? What's the easiest way? We are both behind routers and he wouldn't know how to forward a port
<pr0ph3t> obviously I can try and explain to him step by step what to do
<SuperEngineer> afternoon all
<penguin42> Hey Super
<SuperEngineer> recently convinced a hardened Windows user [with all ingrained fears] to switch to "us" - the final convincincer was showing him there *is"* a graphical virus scanner if wanted.
 * daubers shouts at copy dialogues
<SuperEngineer> - thought I'd run it on *my* 12.04 & guess what - picked upp up 2 suspicious files from a fooder I use as backup fpr works [windoze] docs
 * SuperEngineer sniggers loud &good
<SuperEngineer> fooder?
<SuperEngineer> please red folder
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<daubers> Silly thing. A copy dialogue has hidden itself and using the unity hoe folder icon (right click, show copy dialogue) doesn't bring it back
<MartijnVdS> "hoe folder"
<MartijnVdS> is that where you keep your adult themed pictures?
<daubers> No, it's the one about garden tools :p
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<SuperEngineer> darn - that was getting interesting
 * SuperEngineer was calling out of window at humvees, "heya hoe folder"
 * SuperEngineer slps wrist
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Location_Protocol ?
<SuperEngineer> Mari
<MartijnVdS> ?
<SuperEngineer> [my version of "growl"]
<SuperEngineer> [say it - it sounds good with animal brain switched on
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS, what's dutch for "Marl"?
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea
<jacobw> the weather is just not good enough to sit in the park :(
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: What is it in English?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: Just lower your standards a bit! :)
<SuperEngineer> it's "Marl"
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: Sure, but what category of things is it part of?
<jacobw> this is trivial example of recursion
<SuperEngineer> jacobw, you need to learn speed sun bathing - or cloud dodging - or hiding behind trees from wind!
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: Going for a run always works for me -- I stop caring about rain after a few miles :)
<SuperEngineer> jacobw, for recursion, see...
<jacobw> i'm glad that it's brighter now than it was before the daylight saving switch
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: According to Google Translate, "marl" is "mergel" which is a kind of stone
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: Limburg is full of it (or used to be, anyway)
<jacobw> i want to start running this summer
 * SuperEngineer checks home for a "daylight saving switch"
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: Running in summer is great, except for the 35Â°C-days
<jacobw> i'll be living in rural bavaria, show it may one of few activities available on weekday evenings
<jacobw> s/show/so
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: Beer will be another :)
<jacobw> :D
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS, a kind of stoned sounds more fun - oh only I was younger
<SuperEngineer> *if only
<MartijnVdS> O..kay
<jacobw> openwrt
<MartijnVdS> \o/ openwrt
<czajkowski> c
<SuperEngineer> Days away from 12.04 - I *know* I oughta delete my beta & reinstall... but after all that work, the bug hunts, the configuring to my exact liking ...
 * SuperEngineer sulks
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: why delete the beta?
<jacobw> what is supported by openwrt that doess adsl?
<SuperEngineer> half my brain keeps shouting "fresh start"
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: look on their table of hardware page :)
<jacobw> precise is frozen now
<SuperEngineer> jacobw, yup - it's that cold *everywhere* - even in Ubutuland
 * jacobw walks to bank
<SuperEngineer> when's the "point release"?
<SuperEngineer> coz right now methinks it still abit buggy
<AlanBell> in what way?
<AlanBell> I know of a few
<jacobw> every release-date+3months
<jacobw> wrong
<jacobw> every 6 months starting 3 months after the release date
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell, not the main distro - the apps available
<SuperEngineer> ...they still haven't caught u
<SuperEngineer> up
<AlanBell> well there is a bit of a slow restructuring to get "apps" in and updated through a different process altogether
 * SuperEngineer kicks this dirty keyboard
<AlanBell> the apps review board is an attempt to do that but I am not sure how well it is going
<SuperEngineer> yeh... that much I know - but I'm an optimist
<SuperEngineer> ;)
 * SuperEngineer hunts synaptic for "clean my darn keyboard" app - but none found :(
 * penguin42 hands SuperEngineer a screwdriver and brush
 * SuperEngineer hands SuperEngineer a virtual can of air duster... but you know... that old fable re the cobbler's shoes *does* hold true
<MartijnVdS> ?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Cobbler being one who repairs shoes, and the old fable is that the cobblers shoes are the worst
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> this explains why wifi at work sucks ;)
<MartijnVdS> (I work at an ISP)
<penguin42> exactly
<MartijnVdS> Also, why GPRS/3G reception is non-existent (building = owned KPN)
<MartijnVdS> and why I had to cry tears of blood when a sysadmin(!) coworker upgraded his maverick box (to natty, oneiric, precise) and Nvidia drivers were broken
<SuperEngineer> btw thanks penguin42 for explaination - was at kettle and coffee cup at the time
<MartijnVdS> And he didn't understand unity
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<redcap> OK folks, I am after a little help on this one.  I have Ubuntu Server which I am setting up as a test.  I have a shared folder that several users can log into and permissions are set at RW for all users, however when a user saves a file to the folder it is locked to that user as the owner.  I need anyone to be able to edit the file.  All help is appreciated.
<penguin42> redcap: Add all your users who can edit to a group, then make sure all the files get owned by that group
<penguin42> and make sure they're group read/writeable
<redcap> I created a group named linuxusers and added all the users.  In the permissions for the target folder I added the group  and set the permissions, but I have obviously missed something as any file seems to retain the authors permissions?
<penguin42> redcap: What does ls -l on the files show?
<redcap> owner RW group R other R.  I think I need to look at the group permissions again
<penguin42> redcap: Yeh so be careful about the umask
<penguin42> is it just me or is there now no way in G+ to browse photos in your circles albums?
<redcap> permissions on the folder for the group seem to be set but it does not see to recursively (sp?) set the permissions for individual files saved there?
<penguin42> redcap: Correct, those perms get set when something creates them
<penguin42> redcap: how are your users writing to this folder? ftp? webdav? nfs?
<dogmatic69> files uploading to my server at a whopping 400bytes/s
<dogmatic69> 70kb/17mb 8 hours remaining \o/
<penguin42> you using IP over avian carrier?
<dogmatic69> I swapped my router for a sponge
<redcap> Chaps, thanks for your help, having set the folders permissions again, it seems to be working now.  All the best.
<dogmatic69> oooh, up to 1kb/s now
<dogmatic69> ah, just figured out the problem. busy updating and its using all the bandwidth
<dogmatic69> 600mb update today :(
<reaper4334> Does anyone know how I can get a direct link to the ICQ for Linux download?
<reaper4334> The link on the page http://www.icq.com/download/linux/en doesn't seem to do anything, and it's a flash application so I can't just read the source to find the file location
<gordonjcp> reaper4334: why not just use something like empathy?
<reaper4334> I tried Empathy and Pidgin, but neither seem to allow Group Chat with ICQ
<SuperEngineer> ssshhhhh!
<jacobw> evening
<popey> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA4OTk
<popey> golly
<penguin42> good idea to release on a Thursday, Fridays are a bad day to release
<daubers> bleh, spending the evening looking at uplighters is dull
<penguin42> ikea splurgle splurt uplighters?
<popey> hope they do finally do steam for linux
<daubers> penguin42: screwfix splurgle splurgle
<popey> and some games
<daubers> popey: Steam on linux would definatley be ftw
<popey> see link above
<hamitron> there is news on steam for linux?
<popey> 21:34:12 < popey> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA4OTk
<popey> looks like there will be this week
<hamitron> :D
<bigcalm> popey: work in progress: https://github.com/bigcalm/irssi-proxy-backlog-monitor
<hamitron> they should let someone embed wine too
<bigcalm> Patches welcome (tm)
<popey> heh
<popey> does it work?
<bigcalm> Current status: handles proxy client connect/disconnect. Starts recording backlog upon client disconnect.
<bigcalm> Todo: send back log to proxy client upon reconnect
<bigcalm> popey: partly :D
<popey> heh
<popey> do you need to record it?
<popey> can't you just note the time?
<popey> and spew from the log at them?
<bigcalm> They might not have logging enabled
<bigcalm> I know I don't
<popey> hmm
<bigcalm> But yes, that is a possible option instead of writing ones own logs
<bigcalm> But it still leaves me needing to send conect to the proxy client
<bigcalm> Not wroked that bit out yet
<jacobw> i think many counter strike people are linux people
<penguin42> should give the graphics driver guys some good testing :-)
<jacobw> ha
<penguin42> jacobw: Some packages really need very very extensive testing!
<hamitron> jacobw, doesn't the fact many on linux can already play games, mean it is a waste of resources porting steam and games?
<hamitron> :/
<jacobw> i don't think so
<hamitron> hope not
<hamitron> :)
<jacobw> people who use linux and play games will be happier if they do both of those things together
<hamitron> ofc
<hamitron> but it may not mean so many extra sales
<jacobw> linux people make other people like the things that they like
<penguin42> hamitron: It might, it might be worth a try though - although they'll have to also deal with different support as well; having said that I bet a lot of the guys who write it are Linux guys anyway
<jacobw> if linux people like steam, then linux people will make other people like steam, which is good for valve and people who like their games
<jacobw> :D
<MartijnVdS> whoa.. big train crash
<jacobw> i.e. me
<MartijnVdS> 136 wounded
<hamitron> where?
<jacobw> amsterdam
<jacobw> head on :o
<hamitron> ah, ok
<hamitron> well, not ok obviously
<hamitron> ;/
<MartijnVdS> Head-on collision
<MartijnVdS> Wonder how that happened...
<MartijnVdS> maybe the new Siemens train (the white one) still had software problems after all (making it possible to cross a red signal)
<hamitron> or maybe the signal couldn't be seen easy
<mgdm> there's far more to it than seeing signals
<MartijnVdS> then the train stops
<mgdm> all kinds of interlocks
<hamitron> or maybe the wrong type of rain caused a junction to act weird
<MartijnVdS> The "transport safety council" has opened an investigation
<MartijnVdS> we'll see
<hamitron> :)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17799940
<brobostigon> one flew over cuckoo's nest, interesting film.
<MarquessDeBonBon> Old film.
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> 75.
<zleap> is thsat got jack nicolson in it
<MarquessDeBonBon> Did anybody watch El ClÃ¡sico?
<brobostigon> zleap: yes.
<zleap> we watched that at school
<zleap> that
<zleap> grr
<jacobw> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/french-in-uproar-over-oral-sex-antismoking-posters-1908559.html
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: 2 years ago
<MartijnVdS> WEDNESDAY 24 FEBRUARY 2010
<jacobw> google news
<jacobw> actually i can't remember how i got there
<jacobw> it started with google news
<jacobw> i see, google news links to the independent which links to facebook which links to the most popular stories from the independent on facebook at this time
<jacobw> simples :D
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-22
<Cloud1> hey
<popey> morning
<czajkowski> herrrro
 * popey just discovered a blog post by AlanBell from the past
<popey> when looking for something unrelated
<popey> http://webbookblog.com/possible-update-on-the-graphics-drivers/
<MartijnVdS> best viewed at 1024Ã600
<AlanBell> that was bad hardware
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<jacobw> morning
<Myrtti> I should listen to more Air, clear sign of that is that I get the chills when Galaxy Note ad is on telly
<jacobw> i have feeling there's important things i should be doing, but i have many episodes of babylon 5 to watch
<Myrtti> I have the same feeling with Yesterday's WDYTYA marathon
<jacobw> wdytya?
<Myrtti> Who Do You Think You Are
<jacobw> haha
<jacobw> that's an obscure marathon
<Myrtti> Finnish television did a Finnish version and I heard about it when there was only one episode left to show :-|
 * Myrtti is a history buff
<jacobw> its the london marathon today :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: 8km was enough for me ;)
 * jacobw thinks more about running
<bigcalm> Good mor^Wafternoon peeps :)
<popey> yo
<MartijnVdS> hi popey
<bigcalm> Yo dig?
<Pissed> hi all dose unity --reset rest the complet intall back to start or dose it just reest the UI
<sagaci> Pissed, resets the UI
<Pissed> thanks sagaci,  how do i reset the OS back to the start with out rebuliding
<Pissed> im from widonw and i can not see a roll back or back up tool.   im a bit confused.
<brobostigon> in 12.04 there is a built in, backup solution. as for rollback, i dont think it really comparitivly possible.
<brobostigon> Pissed: dejadup is the backup software used.
<sagaci> in 11.10 there's deja dup but from memory (I haven't used it) it only does files and directories, not system-wide backup
<sagaci> Pissed, what's the problem?
<Pissed> wel im new to this, and i keep messing things up,  but learning mess up, so id like to be aable to do a system roll back or back up and restore,  how do i best achive this, thanks
<Pissed> im switching to linix cos of nodejs    and cos im so board with windows
<sagaci> unless you've screwed up royally, you could create a new user and just go from there
<Pissed> ok,  so what if i install node, mess it up.  i just create a new account, delte old on and im done, is that right.
<sagaci> err, no
<Pissed> he thought not.
<Pissed> is  there a system roll back tool then
<sagaci> if it's just nodejs are you having trouble with the configuration files or something?
<SuperEngineer> hurrumph!  It's my birthday & I wanted some F1 action. I will not give Murdoch Â£ for political reasons & now, it appears some hactivists are attacking Formula1.com - grrr
<Pissed> well,  i keep setting up node and npm as instructed and express is just not going right for me, im not sure if im getting local and global install right.
<Pissed> i use https://gist.github.com/579814   section two to install node and npm
<Pissed> but when i do https://github.com/visionmedia/express   it all gose wrong.
<Pissed> is this cos im messing up the gloabl and local thing
<sagaci> err, right.. you could try purging the packages and reinstalling if you want to start from scratch without clean installing
<jussi> SuperEngineer: aww
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Try cake instead, cake's always good for birthdays
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<Pendulum> penguin42: +1
<penguin42> hmm I really should use a snapshot on this vm, I keep nuking it as I try stuff and having to reinstall
<jussi> SuperEngineer: I could *cough* suggest other things... but hrm, this channel :P :P
<penguin42> you're sure it's better than cake?
<Pissed> whats a good snap shoot tool.   + do i just snap shoot root and re install root. and forget about home
<penguin42> Pissed: Well I was going to use an lvm snapshot; not too simple and I'm not always convinced they're happy
<SuperEngineer> jussi, ;)
<Pissed> ok, so if i purdge the sytem will this take me back to origianl install.
<Pissed> sos guy, a rollbacl tool is what im used to ,
<directhex> Pissed: there's no gui way to do what you want. there are non-gui ways to do it.
<directhex> (lvm snapshotting, for those at the back)
<Pissed> cool ta ill look at hat
 * SuperEngineer looks at his own hat in sympathy
<jacobw> etckeeper :)
<jussi> haha... everton and united drew today :D
<bigcalm> One cannot image a self mounted drive, right?
<kvarley> I'm having a weird issue. Flash videos on YouTube, etc have colouration issues but videos in Gnome-MPlayer and VLC don't. Any suggestions?
<kvarley> They seem to be in a negative sort of effect
<jacobw> bigcalm: self mounted?
<bigcalm> Ignore me :)
 * jacobw /ignores bigcalm 
<jacobw> :D
<jacobw> hi thameslink
<thameslink> hi there :)
<jacobw> interesting name
<webpigeon> 4/join #java
<webpigeon> fail :/
<cocoa117> does the ubuntu kernel been pre-configured with its source code?
<cocoa117> so when i compile it the module is created based on the ubuntu standard
<MartijnVdS> ?
<MartijnVdS> You can install the kernel-headers package for your kernel
<MartijnVdS> and then it will do that, yes
<cocoa117> i don't have to do menuconfig thing with kernel.org source code
<MartijnVdS> though using something like "dkms" is recommended (it will recompile modules automatically when new kernels are released)
<MartijnVdS> Indeed, you don't have to do menuconfig
<cocoa117> MartijnVdS, i c
<cocoa117> MartijnVdS, so if i patched ubuntu kernel source code, i should do dkms to get new modules?
<cocoa117> MartijnVdS, i only just patched DVB section of the source code
<MartijnVdS> uhrm
<MartijnVdS> why would you do that?
<cocoa117> MartijnVdS, do you mean why would i patch ubuntu kernel source code? i need a function and version 3.0.0 kernel don't support it
<cocoa117> have to get new module before the program can work
<cocoa117> it is a dvb loop device module
<MartijnVdS> separate module packages are easy
<MartijnVdS> but modules like this.. I'd have to study that
<jacobw> modules are usually packaged
<jacobw> and don't require a patch to source and usually don't particular build options either
<jacobw> you probably need a module package, if you do need to compile the module you need headers
<chambo> Hello.  I would like some software to produce videos.  Ultimately I'd like a video containing coloured blobs which move around (Slightly obscure but I'm writing some software to do video tracking and this would make some nice synthetic test data).  Are there applications available which allow me to describe say two ellipses and some transformations and record this as an AVI?
<chambo> Very long shot I know but I thought someone on here might know of something
<chambo> If not I'll put it on the list of things to write
<gordonjcp> chambo: have you looked at Processing?
<gordonjcp> you may be able to write something in that, it's a sort of java-based graphicsy thing
<chambo> gordonjcp, I've heard of processing but never used.  Just had a quick look though and video is only supported with OSX and Windows.  A good idea though - I might look for similar languages.
<chambo> Just discovered some software called synfig which looks like it may do what I'm after
<gordonjcp> chambo: you could write it out as a series of frames, then use mencoder to combine them into a video
<gordonjcp> athough tbh you could use damn near any language for that
<cocoa117> if i need to patch existing ubuntu kernel 3.0.0, say dvb-core modules and snd modules. when I do make and make install, does it mean all the kernel module will be recompiled and build? or the make is smart enough just create module for patched module
<chambo> synfig seems to do the job - a bit faffy to use but I should be able to knock something up
<chambo> Cheers for the suggestions gordonjcp
<directhe`> http://i.imgur.com/EPZ70l.jpg
<MartijnVdS> directhe`: Ikex!
<MartijnVdS> Ikea*
<directhe`> MartijnVdS: not *all* of it. the, erm, radiator isn't
<MartijnVdS> directhe`: the Expedits are :)
<directhe`> the new high gloss expedits are expensive
<MartijnVdS> I have two non-gloss black ones
<MartijnVdS> The "holes" are perfect for records (the old vinyl ones)
<directhe`> MartijnVdS: our front room contains the black 5x5 and old discontinued 5x5 TV expedits
<MartijnVdS> 5x5s are HUGE
<directhe`> MartijnVdS: this means we can transfer boxes of baby tat from nursery to front room, and just slot them in
<directhe`> the SKUBB and DRONA fit well
<MartijnVdS> I have one of the "door" inserts
<directhe`> officially SKUBB is part of the PAX accessories range, but they have a 33x33x33cm
<directhe`> MartijnVdS: we have, erm, 2 of those. and 2 set of drawers. need 4 more doors - but MK ikea were sold out
<MartijnVdS> http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/40166569/#/00156949
<MartijnVdS> directhe`: You know you can fit 19" hardware between the legs of a LACK table, right? :)
<directhe`> MartijnVdS: i'm not putting rackmount hardware at child height.
<MartijnVdS> No "My first oscilloscope"?
<MartijnVdS> "My first BladeCenter"
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> directhe`: wee one on the way eh? boy or girl?
<directhe`> boy
<daftykins> ooh
<daftykins> what's the ETA? also your nick's borked
<directhe`> daftykins: end of june
<daftykins> cool
<directhe`> daftykins: i know, but too laxy to type /nick directhex
 * dwatkins wonders why #linux is trending on Google+ (not that it's a bad thing, just curious)
<sircrashalot> The only reason #linux is trending is people are excited #linux is trending!
<dwatkins> sircrashalot: I suspected as much, how wonderfully recursive :)
<gordonjcp> sircrashalot: feedback(n): see 'feedback'
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<sircrashalot> I'll be dreaming of HUDs
<daftykins> \o
<bigcalm> Why am I writing vb.net for work at 11pm on a Sunday evening?
<sircrashalot> Can you compile it in Mono?
<Jora> you just love work that much
<bigcalm> sircrashalot: I'd rather not do any work at all at this time of day
<daftykins> that's how relaxing sunday night is
<bigcalm> Jora: looks like it
<hamitron> !12.04
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) is the 16th release of Ubuntu and is in Beta testing from 2nd March, Discussion and support until final release in #ubuntu+1
<daftykins> if i wasn't afraid of getting punched by everyone in the channel, i'd say i don't know the precise release date yet ;x
 * daftykins ducks
<hamitron> why?
<daftykins> precise...
 * hamitron is looking forward to trying unity
<bigcalm> 26th, this Thursday
<hamitron> hehe :)
<sircrashalot> One day all programs will be written in vb.net
<hamitron> and one day I will die
<hamitron> ;/
<Jora> lol
<Jora> i think java seems to be more of the popular language these days
<sircrashalot> java and c
<daftykins> having just the JRE installed sure brings some security problems
<daftykins> apparently it's the largest vector for Windows systems
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> if only it wasn't for minecraft....
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> hrmm i want to move back up to my upstairs bedroom
<Jora> i am a programming newb, is there a lot of ai work done in java?
<daftykins> the paint is kinda dry now...
<ali1234> dont pick a language because it is popular
<daftykins> i'd have thought java wouldn't be best suited
<ali1234> pick it becase it is the right tool for the job
<hamitron> well said ali1234
<ali1234> if you don't know what a language is good for you don't know it well enough to use it
<daftykins> pretty sure Jora's just asking what's commonly used given AI's needs
<ali1234> lisp
<hamitron> I dunno AI, so *shrugs*
<Jora> Yeah, thats IS what I'm asking daftykins
<hamitron> lua maybe?
<ali1234> lisp is the most commonly used language in AI, or at least it was
<Jora> I don't know how to use java yet, was just asking a general question.
<Jora> Java is the language that we are required to study in depth.
<daftykins> Jora: whenever i think of Java (and bear in mind you've done more of it than me now) i think of how the virtual machine element makes it less efficient on hardware, so i wonder if AI might need that, but then it depends how people messing with it use it i guess
<ali1234> java is most commonly used in business applications
<ali1234> java is designed around the idea of production line programming
<sircrashalot> The tool for the job  http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/whenever.html
<ali1234> if you wanted to hire a bunch of people to create a software platform for your business and you wanted to ensure none of them could steal your idea by making sure that none of the developers had any idea what the end product was supposed to actually DO, then java is the language you would have them write it in
<daftykins> i'm always amazed at how far away from a simple question one can get in this channel :D
<Jora> lol
<Jora> I intend to become proficient in java then hopefully move on the something else.
<daftykins> cool
<daftykins> you still getting assignments with it?
<daftykins> to do stuff with it, i mean
<directhe`> sircrashalot: you can write vb.net apps for ubuntu.
<ali1234> directhe`: what was the name of that mono compatibility testing app?
<Jora> daftykins, i just finished my last java assignment for awhile but I found an online resource to go over what we covered more in depth.
<ali1234> that tells you if a .net app runs in mono or not
<daftykins> Jora: what kinda thing did the last get up to?
<ali1234> never mind, found it http://www.mono-project.com/MoMA
<Jora> it was just modifying a payroll system .....importing classes, superclass/subclass relationships
<daftykins> hmm
<Jora> Not that advanced. Newb stuff.
<directhe`> ali1234: MOMA
<ali1234> cheers
<Jora> Now when I look at java at least it makes a bit of sense to me.
<ali1234> java is actively designed to prevent you from doing anything "clever" or "advanced"
<directhe`> pretty much.
<Jora> You suggest taking up LISP?
<directhe`> lollisp
<ali1234> for AI? it's the standard
<ali1234> for anything else? hell no
<directhe`> prolog.
<directhe`> for AI
<ali1234> prolog for when your code absolutely has to be correct :)
<Jora> well anything, i was asking about AI etc just because thats an area I'd like to study down the road in a few years
<ali1234> there is no general purpose language you can learn and then use for everything, except maybe C
<Jora> few years meaning like 5 unless i have sufficient background at some point to do one of those free courses online
<sircrashalot> The recent Thrun+Norvig AI course used python
<Jora> Yeah, I never see any jobs for python programmers ever advertised though
<Jora> Its always Perl, Java C, C++
<Jora> Python seems to be a good learning tool though
<daftykins> i think Python would be more in the domain of a sysadmin's toolset?
<daftykins> so possibly not specific coding jobs, i dunno
<daftykins> of course i could be talking rubbish, since i don't code...
<daftykins> ;D
<hamitron> Jora, who needs AI when you can get people to "waste" their time in on your app, if you include network support? ;)
<Jora> i dunno, it seems an interesting aspect of computing to learn about
<hamitron> I guess
<hamitron> I personally hate it, but I recognise it is very in depth and a subject of its own
<hamitron> :)
<Jora> What do you dislike about it?
<hamitron> I prefer simulations of real world physics
<hamitron> or things that exist
<hamitron> rather than making something appear to think
<Jora> Yeah, I get you.
<Jora> Like a simulation of a brain vs a bot that appears to think
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> or simulation of a car and its handling..... than a bot to drive it
<hamitron> I guess it is fun to program hardware to do something too
<Jora> The more I learn, the less I feel I know and the more there seems there is to learn.
<hamitron> same for all of us
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> someone who thinks they know so much, there is nothing more to learn..... is someone who hasn't looked into something close enough
<daftykins> yeah i always get that
<daftykins> makes those friends of mine that are pushing boundaries by for example, doing research PhD's etc. all the more amazing
<Jora> oh cool daftykins what are they doing work in?
<daftykins> one guy was recently in Japan helping out with neutrino research, his main line of work is in nuclear physics
<daftykins> so if he sticks at it he'll be a doctor eventually :>
<daftykins> right gonna move bedrooms
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-15
<jacobw> Morning ubunteros
<apacheuk> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> from the man with the very hurty face :-(
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: 0uch ouch
<AlanBell> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> sheesh my face hurts today :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Picture coming up...
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning daubers
<daubers> nice to be back in blighty
<Lil-|^Red> ~OT | Here's a new one : What's everyone thnk of Go-Faster Stripes on an External Hard Disk ?? http://bit.ly/17caY6a
<MooDoo> Lil-|^Red: think i'll get that if it'll make things go faster ;)
<popey> USB 2 â¹
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, folks, hope everyone had a great Look Up At The Sky Day yesterday!
<SuperMatt> I can see the sky now and it's *still* blue!
<TheOpenSourcerer> My face day 3. Looks better but HURTS so much more - ouch. https://twitter.com/opensourcerer/status/323712934817722368/photo/1
<JamesTait> Same here!
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer, you don't do things by haves, do you?
<JamesTait> s/haves/halves
<SuperMatt> ouchy, what happened?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not deliberately
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lunch
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer, most importantly, are you OK?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well, I am alive. My face hurts (aches) but it's mostly grazing I think.
<jacobw> Yes, what happened?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I went for lunch on Friday
<SuperMatt> did an alcohol happen?
<DJones> Thats a dangerous lunch
<TheOpenSourcerer> When I woke up on Saturday morning my face looked like this: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/instantupload/5866225586234215154
<Lil-|^Red> TheOpenSourcerer: It does need a nice lovely bow on yur forehead to make a good pict.
<BigRedS> This is why I skip lunch on Fridays
<TheOpenSourcerer> SuperMatt: I am beginning to strongly suspect someone slipped a Mickey Finn into something I drank.
<SuperMatt> wow
<TheOpenSourcerer> I had no hangover to speak of. I didn't, for me, drink *that* much. But can;t remember anything
<SuperMatt> I know we're not allowed to swear in here, so that's most of what I want to say out of the window
<SuperMatt> did anything go missing?
<TheOpenSourcerer> and according to my friend who looked after me and brought me home I was unable to stand - completely.
<TheOpenSourcerer> After 2 pints of bitter and bottle of wine? Nah. Not me.
<SuperMatt> sounds like someone was probably hoping they'd be able to take stuff off you
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nothing I noticed. Still had Â£140 in my pocket.
<SuperMatt> yeah, I'm a small guy and *I* can handle that much
<SuperMatt> is it possible someone knew you had that much in pocket?
<SuperMatt> someone I knew once made the mistake of going to the pub with Â£500 in his pocket
<TheOpenSourcerer> I suspect this was more of a "prank" than anything malicious.
<SuperMatt> their mistake was knocking him down next to a brick
<TheOpenSourcerer> It was a Rugby club lunch everyone was pretty loaded.
<jacobw> Perhaps you had a bad reaction to due to $SOMETHING
 * AlanBell blames the tie
<Lil-|^Red> TheOpenSourcerer: At least you didn't mope around A&E askin' that question .. that would have been a mistake-a to make-a.
<mungbean> rohipnol
<popey> having been drinking TheOpenSourcerer a few times I can confirm he can drink more than two pints â»
<jacobw> Some medication, or condition you're not aware of yet.
<popey> which reminds me, we're going drinking next week
<BigRedS> You drank TheOpenSourcerer!?
 * popey will bring some plasters and TCP for TheOpenSourcerer â»
<SuperMatt> I'll be along late to the raring release party
<mungbean> popey: get to the bottom of your wii prob?
<mungbean> wifi
<SuperMatt> I've got work drinks first
<SuperMatt> someone save me a medium t-shirt!
<popey> mungbean: yup, switch off n
<AlanBell> raring party on thursday and beerex on friday
<jacobw> When and where is the Raring release party?
<mungbean> oh, i had that prob on intel 4956agn
<BigRedS> Oh, wow, that'll be soon now
<SuperMatt> next thursday
<mungbean> but dmesg is blatant about it
 * Lil-|^Red recommend the spray TCP rather than the med. liquid stuff.
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2329-1304-release-party/
<jacobw> Thanks
<SuperMatt> the pub next to the golden hinde which I can never remember the name of
<AlanBell> feel free to be tweeting and such about it
<mungbean> SuperMatt: isn't it called the golden hind?
<mungbean> the pub
<SuperMatt> no, it's something else
<Lil-|^Red> AlanBell: I'm thnkin' this will not be televised
<Lil-|^Red>     i.e. G+Hangout ??
<SuperMatt> The Old Thameside Inn
<SuperMatt> I just always call it the golden hinde
<AlanBell> Lil-|^Red: dunno, it might be I suppose
<SuperMatt> there, I've registered
<Lil-|^Red> AlanBell: Why not make History ?
 * AlanBell prefers to make Geography
 * Lil-|^Red prefers H2
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I hope by next week most of the damage will be gone. It's healing pretty well.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Think that's why it hurts :-)
<Lil-|^Red> AlanBell: It looks like our Realease day is near a beach .. no Wifi .. pretty much a wasted oppourtunity, me thnks. http://bit.ly/17cgtBR
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<Lil-|^Red> leaves.
<Laney> wtf
<popey> i think it's a protest at me
<AlanBell> random
<Myrtti> I'll have to try if I evoke the same reaction
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> I found out why my UPS was showing zero load. It's broken :) Brand new batteries, fully charged: switch off the mains, UPS clicks over to invert DC to AC but no power reaches the sockets
<mungbean> belikn?
<bigcalm> Yes
<mungbean> as i said...door stop :P
<bigcalm> :)
 * AlanBell thinks UPS on the mains side is all wrong
<bigcalm> Work purchase back in 2007. I've always used APC myself
<AlanBell> google get it right in their datacentres, the UPS is on the low voltage side
<bigcalm> Do I attempt to fix the Belkin door stop (I've just replaced the batteries) or cut my losses and put an APC unit?
<bigcalm> s/put/buy
<mungbean> wait till the replaced batteries are fully charged
<mungbean> woops, you did that
<BigRedS> AlanBell: yeah, it seems much more sensible to put UPS on the circuits that are low-voltage DC. Like, y'know, batteries are
<BigRedS> I've long loved that we do 415V AC -> 12V DC -> 240V AC -> 12V DC
<bigcalm> Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<BigRedS> But then I have been known to advoctate sticking a laptop in a rack
<mungbean> eww
<bigcalm> Haha
<BigRedS> Seemed sensible. ~8hrs built-in UPS to go with the built-in modem. It was pointed out that if everything else was down there would be little point connecting to that machine...
<mungbean> was gonna try to do some openstack work today but a few sessions of 1hr sleep was not the best prepation
<jacobw> My only tip with OpenStack is not to add to your confusion by using different passwords for each thing
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> What are you playing with openstack on? I keep meaning to have a go and then get distracted by something I already understadn :)
<mungbean> yes BigRedS there's no all-enscapsulating dummies guide
<jacobw> That's very true, a lot of the guides will get to a theoretically working state, but ommit the actual creation of VMs
<AlanBell> BigRedS: yeah, totally agree with laptops as servers
<jacobw> When I tried to evaluate it, I ran out of time in getting to the theoretical working state.
<BigRedS> mungbean: but I'm an all-encompassing dummy!
<davmor2> Morning all
<shauno> do yourself a favour, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-cloud-live/releases/12.04/   read the readme on the desktop, run the two scripts they put in your ~/bin/, and have a mimumum viable config in ~10 seconds
<shauno> there's so many freaking components that if you try to start from scratch, you'll lose sanity before you gain functionality.  if you start with a functioning playground, you won't lose hope so quickly
<BigRedS> oooh
<BigRedS> that sounds like my sort of lazy
<mungbean> what do the scripts give you?
<shauno> honestly not actually sure, seems a couple of steps the livecd doesn't do itself.  one's to intialise z database, the second just starts the stack
<Neoti_Desktop> hey people, will the latest LTS version of ubuntu support a zotac AD 13 plus + the HDMI splitter so i can have 3 monitors? (Zotac AD 13 : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zotac-E2-1800-320GB-Wi-Fi-Bluetooth/dp/B00929GRP2#productDetails | Zotax HDMI Splitter: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zotac-ZT-DP2HD-Dual-HDMI-Cable/dp/B005FSHHBW/ref=sr_1_66?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1366018958&sr=1-66&keywords=Zotac).. thanks...
<mungbean> after i ran the start openstack , unity froze and i couldnt access the vm
<bigcalm> Neoti_Desktop: this is the source for known working hardware: http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/
<shauno> odd, it's been working in a VM here
<mungbean> oh, it hasn't frozen, just amazingly slow
<mungbean> keypresses are 30 secs behind
<shauno> ah, virtualbox?
<shauno> doesn't appear to support guests that require vt-x (per https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/4032 ), so running a VM inside a guest is going to be a bucket of pain
<DJones> Bloody hell, looking through some vehicle parts invoices from suppliers at, I hadn't realised how much of markup (ripoff tax) there are on some parts,a wishbone part has a retail price of Â£400.54, cost to us Â£37.95
<mungbean> car garages are eeevil
<DJones> This isn't the garage price, thats just the parts suppliers prices
<BigRedS> Ooh that's a healthy markuop
<BigRedS> I used to work in a bike shop, and we had some crazy variable markups from suppliers. One product would have ~3% and another ~
<BigRedS> 100%
<BigRedS> Hm. Errant newline
<diplo> DJones: I worked in Electrical Wholesal, a drum of 10.0mm T&E cable ( showers/cookers etc ) retailed at Â£200k
<diplo> Â£20k*
<diplo> Sold for Â£100 ish
<DJones> Â£20K down to Â£100.... That sounds like it fell off the back of a lorry :)
<diplo> Just stupid retail prices set by suppliers
<diplo> We auto added 80% default on all customers, and mainly sold it at cost + a slight mark up as there was no money in cable
<diplo> Copper was to expensive, probably still is
<DJones> Vauxhall front brake pads, cost Â£7.70, list price Â£46.35
<diplo> Oooh, I need some rear ones, even with postage that's cheaper...
 * diplo knows who to harass
<diplo> :D
<DJones> I wonder whether the list price was set when the product was first sold and hasn't been updated to reflect the reduced cost price
<diplo> It's fairly standard practice afaik, most of the products I've supplied have always been fairly high. So customer thinks when you give them a largish discount that that they have got a good deal
<BigRedS> yeah, they're generally high either to make discounts easy or to make up for products where there's so much competition that you can't make much on them
<mungbean> shauno: after starting the openstack, do u know the default password to login to the web UI?
<shauno> ubuntu/ubuntu123  (it's in the textfile on the desktop)
<shauno> along with pointers to some images you can load up, which makes clicking around more entertaining
<mungbean> thanks shauno i was "more Getting*" on the console and it only showed 20 lines, which i thought was the whole file
<mungbean> less works though
<mungbean> oh dear, i really shouldn't play pastebin roulette
<mungbean> some interesting ones in there :\
<mungbean> in among millions from boot-repair on paste.ubuntu.com
<mungbean> is this a deliberate spam? is there such a thing as pastebin spam? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5700000/
<Laney> i think there's just form spam
<shauno> I assume so, pastebin.com drags me through a capatcha if I have too many URLs in a paste
<mungbean> picking random numbers usually gives me boot-repair pastes
<shauno> now that's a whole new level of boredom
<BigRedS> haha
<mungbean> i used to play ubuntu one roulette but they changed the urls to harder ones
<mungbean> i was interested to see what ubuntu pastebin was being used for
<kvarley> How can I connect via sftp with a custom port using the location format sftp://user@domain.com ?
<popey> sftp://user@domain.com:port  ?
<popey> or use scp â»
<Nafallo> s/com/tld/
<Nafallo> oh, or per the question ;-)
 * Laney gives the weather the evil eye
<Laney> clouding over and becoming windy just in time for lunch
<BigRedS> Anyone ever tried to restore a Zimbra mailbox from an rsync backup of /opt, rather than a Zimbra backup?
<mungbean> no, i use official backups from the paid version of zim
<mungbean> openstack try to launch a cirrus image: "an error occurred"
<MooDoo> hmmm might need to look into openstack, heard a lot about it
<kvarley> Is it possible to unbind Ctrl + Q ? Just closed my Firefox session with loads of tabs by accident, don't want it happening again
<BigRedS> you can tell firefox to not close like that
<BigRedS> go to about:config and search for 'quite'
<BigRedS> er
<BigRedS> '
<BigRedS> 'quit'
<BigRedS> there's one called something like 'warnbeforequit' which used to be on but is now off for no good reason
<SuperMatt> I set my homepage to about:home so I can restart tabs with a single click
<jussi> I just use chromium... :P
<BigRedS> it's "browser.showQuitWarning", set that to true and it'll say "Do you want to quit?"
<BigRedS> I tried to use Chromium but after about half an hour of trying to get its noscript to work I went back to Firefox
<kvarley> Thanks BigRedS :)
<BigRedS> no worries!
<kvarley> I used to use Chromium because Firefox was really slow, I now have new hardware so I can't tell. Plus Chromium gets more and more Google tracking stuff all the time I got a bit worried about using it
<kvarley> If you type in example.com in the Chromium search box or localhost it will google search it instead of going to the url
<BigRedS> in the search box? That's exactly what I'd want it to do
<kvarley> BigRedS: Sorry I meant the address bar haha
<BigRedS> ahh
<BigRedS> huh, so you stick a domain with no URI in and it searches for it? That sounds dumb
<BigRedS> Mine doesn't
<kvarley> Weird
<kvarley> No idea why mine did then
<kvarley> This was a while back
<bigcalm> Afternoon peeps
<SuperMatt> noon
<bigcalm> Trying to work from a McDonnald's is surprisingly difficult
<SuperMatt> I'll bet
<SuperMatt> IIRC mcdonalds actually resent having free wifi, because it increased the average time of someone sitting down from about 10 minutes to half an hour
<davmor2> bigcalm: you hippie
<SuperMatt> which meant they didn't get quite so much custom
<kvarley> But surely they get people going and buying stuff purely to use the wifi?
<mungbean> like using the toilet
<mungbean> mCD are providers of public toilets
<popey> and free parking
<SuperMatt> yeah, but then you have a guy just having one burger and a coffee, and using the net for half an hour
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> and free ice
<popey> we always get ice for parties from mcd
<popey> walk in with an empty bucket, walk out with a bucket of ice
<bigcalm> This McDonnald's is over the road from the Halfords where DAB is being fitted to my car
<SuperMatt> can we stop talking about mcdonalds now? I fear I may crave and head out for a mcflurry
 * kvarley is going for lunch - all the talk of mcdonalds has made me hungry
<davmor2> bigcalm: is that actually happening today?
<bigcalm> davmor2: I gave the bloke my car key, so I hope so
<davmor2> bigcalm: woohoo!
<davmor2> bigcalm: the bloke was in a halfords, and wearing a halfords uniform right?
<bigcalm> davmor2: Yes, but now that I think about it, it could have been an exceedingly elaborate ploy to half-inch my car
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm glad I dropped that thought into your head then :)  I win !
<bigcalm> davmor2: you're an odd lad :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: When have you ever heard me say I'm normal?  I always claim to be a weirdo and nobody ever argues with me on that point :)
<davmor2> just ask czajkowski
<czajkowski> so true
<czajkowski> so much fun on hangouts
<czajkowski> trust me
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: eggs are looking good. Is that the result of 1 collection?
<czajkowski> nope a few days maybe since thursday I think
<czajkowski> from 3 chickens
<czajkowski> 1 RIP'd
<davmor2> czajkowski: you need to start cooking them eggs before they start going off
<AlanBell> eggs last for ages
<davmor2> czajkowski: how come?
<czajkowski> frehs eggs last a long time
<czajkowski> no idea Jon came home and roast was just flat out dead in the coup
<BigRedS> 'roast'?
<BigRedS> haha
<davmor2> BigRedS: they are all named after cooking methods
<czajkowski> butterfly got out yesterday and went into the next door neighbours garden
<czajkowski> spatchcock made her way into the kitchen today cheeky bird
<czajkowski> and perri perri lays nice darker brown eggs
 * AlanBell wants an egg-skelter
<davmor2> AlanBell: I read that as egg shelter I was going to say surely it is just called a box :)
<bigcalm> Meh. Laptop crashed with funky graphics
<AlanBell> http://www.omlet.co.uk/shop/kitchen/egg_skelters/?gclid=CKzrxoLSzLYCFU3KtAod7DoAaA
<czajkowski> thats cool
<czajkowski> I like my chicken basket
<czajkowski> never imagined it being used for eggs
<czajkowski> but one never knows the logic of Jon :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: it hates you
<bigcalm> davmor2: 12.10 hates me. 13.04 better be amazing
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's way better than 12.10
<BigRedS> I have _so_ many issues on my 12.10 pc at home
<BigRedS> which I'm not convinced aren't largely hw issues
<czajkowski> bigcalm: online services still
<bigcalm> ?
<bigcalm> davmor2: is there anybody at the LUG in a profession where they could counter sign my passport renewal application?
<BigRedS> czajkowski: ah, was that for me?
<BigRedS> I've largely abandoned the idea of online accounts 'cause I'm not interested enough to put that much effort in it... Apparently it'll work in 13.04 so next time I'm in Ubuntu for long enough I'll dist upgrade and see what happens
<czajkowski> yes BigRedS
<BigRedS> But I just gave Wargaming some money so I'll generally be playing World of Tanks whenever I'm anywhere near my PC
<davmor2> bigcalm: Me, Ron, Ron's Wife, Alex, Adam, Infact most of them
<andrewebdev> Sometimes when I resize a window, and a dialog pops up, I lose the resize functionality all together. I can still see the orange highlight from when I started the resize, but it doesn't go away at all, and I cannot resize any other windows. Is there a way to fix this other than to re-log?
<AlanBell> they are relaxed about professions now
<MooDoo> hello davmor2 :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: you're in this list? https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka, ow' be ya
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah not 3 bad lad.
<BigRedS> journalists are deemed to have integrity?
<davmor2> MooDoo:  engineer (with professional qualifications)  and I own a company :P
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: ?
<bigcalm> Hehe
<davmor2> MooDoo: what was the ? for
<MooDoo> i said i'm ok you said "engineer (with professional qualifications)  and I own a company :P
<MooDoo> "
<MooDoo> got confused
<davmor2> MooDoo:  2 conversations at the same time :)
<bigcalm> 1h 19m have passed in the 1h 30m allocated time. Must be close to completion I hope
<MooDoo> ah
<bigcalm> One thing about using a laptop in McDonald's is having to be cautious about opening links
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yeah especially if it's to wimpy or burger king ;)
<mungbean> remember that sheep addon for sniffing unencrypted fb
<MooDoo> roll on 5:30 beer o'clock
<davmor2> bigcalm: you're assuming they only have your car to work on.  Wrong, wrong, wrong-tiddly-wrong-wrong
<bigcalm> davmor2: one bloke doing the fittings and mine was booked in from 12pm to 1.30pm. Will buzz them soon if they don't get to me 1st
<MooDoo> Can I upgrade from LTS to 13.04 using update manager, ie skip 12.10?
<SuperMatt> I'm not sure you can :/
<kvarley> Wouldn't changing the sources lists to the quantal ones work?
<kvarley> I guess your issue would be if some packages have been renamed or merged into others
<MooDoo> just curious to be honest, I'm replacing the HDD with SSD soon, so I'll just wait and download the iso when it's out
<kvarley> It'd be nice if Ubuntu went rolling with a snapshot every year or something
<davmor2> MooDoo: No it will goto 12.10. you can insert a 13.04 dvd and do an upgrade from that but to be honest I would a do a fresh install and just replace your data
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'll be doing that when I get the SSD replacement, was just curious.
<kvarley> davmor2: Would manually changing the apt sources work?
<MooDoo> kvarley: yes I suspect it would
<davmor2> kvarley: you can but that can lead to a lot of mess
<kvarley> Ok :)
<davmor2> kvarley: for instance straight away you would have unity 2d as a desktop choice which may or maynot work with the newer version of qt in raring etc
<MooDoo> I think I'll just re-install, it's not that hard.
<kvarley> davmor2: Ah yeah, ok
<MooDoo> upgrading to 8gb in the laptop too so I can run some vm's
 * bigcalm calls Halfords and drums his fingers
<SuperMatt> they still not done?
<SuperMatt> that maccy d must be really getting to you now
<bigcalm> Nope. 2h into a 1.5h appointment, thought I'd give them a call to find out what was happening. A bloke has gone to find out for me
<SuperMatt> I would hate to be in mcdonalds for so long
<SuperMatt> I fear I would feel the grease just seeping in to my pores, turning me into a grease monster
<bigcalm> Apparently it's just been finished. Time to pack up and ship out
<bigcalm> \o/
<SuperMatt> hooray!
<bigcalm> Laptop battery has lasted well :)
<bigcalm> Taaraa
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> bai!
<popey> http://www.fuduntu.org/blog/2013/04/15/fuduntu-team-meeting-held-on-april-14-2013/
<popey> thats one way to avoid the issue
<popey> EOL the distro
<mungbean> what is fuduntu?
<mungbean> worst name ever btw
<MooDoo> popey: it'll re-appear someday reading that post, like a [the thing that rises from the flames] lol
<mungbean> oh they are gonna fork it
<SuperMatt> classic. If you can't reach your goals, fork it and set new goals!
<MooDoo> ah so it's just fedora that looks pretty
<SuperMatt> I'd use mageia for that, or rosa
<mungbean> well it does seem to centre around the main bloke retiring
<SuperMatt> or just use fedora and switch to cinnamon
<SuperMatt> although fedora seems to be circling the drain at the moment
<SuperMatt> 18 was shambolic
<MooDoo> or just use X as there are so many to choose from nowadays
<mungbean> lunchtime headmash: A and B are the same colour: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Grey_square_optical_illusion.PNG
<mungbean> motorola lapdock $50 wow
<mungbean> only works with atrix?
<mungbean> (and raspberry pi)
<MooDoo> Steak and Ale for tea :)
<SuperMatt> oooh
<SuperMatt> I need to think of something nice to do with my venison steaks
<kvarley> I think DNS is making my network slow, is there a way I can time how long it takes to resolve an IP from a domain name?
<kvarley> Disabling ipv6 in firefox removes the resolve time
<AlanBell> dig example.com
<AlanBell> ;; Query time: 15 msec
<kvarley> AlanBell: ";; connection timed out: no servers could be reached"
<davmor2> MooDoo: your 80 what, you don't look a day over 60 bud ;)
<AlanBell> kvarley: erk
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm sorry did that came out wrong I meant happy birthday ;)
<kvarley> AlanBell: I don't have the issue on other tablets, PCs in the house so it's not the connection
<bigcalm> Finally back in my office
<bigcalm> Listened to Absolute80s on the way home. That's what it's all about
<Myrtti> best use of a new car stereo then
<bigcalm> That and BBC 6 Music
<Myrtti> you should have had an mp3 of a thrice copied 1983 Ultravox cassette
<bigcalm> Heh
<Myrtti> or Duran Duran
<bigcalm> I think Hayley has all of their CDs
<bigcalm> And cassettes
<davmor2> Myrtti: Absolute 80's is the bomb :)
<mungbean> this openstack is giving me loads of errors :(
<kvarley> Network manager is ignoring my setting to ignore IPv6, how can I fix that?
<bigcalm> Why would you want to disable IPv6?
<kvarley> bigcalm: Well currently DNS keeps timing out
<kvarley> My router isn't capable of ipv6
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/LqI8Jl9.png << openstack problems :(
<davmor2> kvarley: mine doesn't do ipv6 but I don't get time outs on DNS, what makes you so sure it is ipv6 at fault?
<davmor2> mungbean: did the systems build yet if not then you won't gain access from port 80
<davmor2> mungbean: the fact there is no ip address list makes me think maybe not :)
<bittin> was some snailmail from UK in my mailbox today :>
<kvarley> davmor2: Well pages always hung on resolving until I disabled ipv6 in firefox and when I dig a domain it times out
<mungbean> davmor2: just says Error, not much help supplied.
<davmor2> mungbean: it does give you an error above though. It can't fetch volumes due to 404, then when you look there is no ip addresses for anything so the rest is assumption which of course is the mother of all fups :)
<mungbean> can't create volumes (Error) , and can't launch image (Error)
<mungbean> no more is explained
<davmor2> mungbean: yes because there is no ip address for the service to connect to so it can't give you any more info, am I looking at it differently to you?
<mungbean> hmm its gone unresponsive again. might just give up for now
<bittin> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BH5nFjOCAAAQzcD.jpg:large svÃ¥rt o fota sig sjÃ¤lv :p
<bigcalm> !english | bittin
<lubotu3> bittin: The #ubuntu, #kubuntu and #xubuntu channels are English only. For a complete list of channels in other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<DJones> Have Any of the chilli fan's caught the programme on radio 4 about chilli eating and production
<DJones> would Have highlighted it when it started but Was driving home
<MooDoo> CHILLIES i love em
<bigcalm> Just tested the UPS with a multi-meter. The output voltage drops from 242 to 167 volts when inverting. No wonder everything dies instantly
<AlanBell> eww, 167 sounds worse than zero
<DJones> I'm guessing it'll be available as a listen again via the web
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's called "The Food Programme" on BBC R4 and on listen again.
<MooDoo> My fave is Bhut Jolikia yum
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://plus.google.com/u/0/104060033182234025482/posts/c2UMQGtprWy
<DJones> They mentioned this one http://www.amazon.com/Naga-Soreass-Hot-Sauce-Oz/dp/B0049HSZLQ
<popey> I put two drops of daves insanity sauce on my lunch the other day, blew my head off
<MooDoo> my fave one - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naga_Bhut_Jolokia
 * TheOpenSourcerer doesn't want to think about heads blowing off right now.
<MooDoo> but didn't yours just get friendly with a car wing mirror?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes. But "just" isn't quite enough the way it feels today.
<MooDoo> well it was pretty impressive looking the other day :) you daft <insert expletive here> ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: I am more and more convinced my drink(s) was spiked.
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: anybody you don't get on with at the lunchon?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - I suspect more prankster than malicious.
 * AlanBell wasn't there ;)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<TheOpenSourcerer> My friend Bryan was also almost comatose after a similar quantity of booze to me - and he likes a drink too.
<AlanBell> what was the food?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Antipasti starter, A lovely huge slow roested lamb shank
<TheOpenSourcerer> and then cheese
<AlanBell> ok, no weird fish then
<AlanBell> or shrooms
<TheOpenSourcerer> *everyone* ate the same. But on our table of 10, I think Bryan and I were the only two that drank a couple of pints of Doombar before we sat dow. The others had Guiness or Tea (Hogs Back tea)
<bigcalm> So you were Doomed from the start
<bigcalm> Ooo, Suggs on Saturday. Something to help me get through the week :)
<mungbean> www.ubuntu.com/download/help/install-ubuntu-cloud
<mungbean> ^^ someone try to visit that site pleas?
<bigcalm> 102
<bigcalm> (Connection refused)
<mungbean> redirects to localhost
<AlanBell> redirects to http://localhost:10002/download/cloud/install-ubuntu-cloud
<mungbean> fail
<bigcalm> Oh yes :)
<AlanBell> I wonder if that is a Daviey thing
<AlanBell> how did you get to that page mungbean?
<AlanBell> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/cloud/install-ubuntu-cloud is linked to from http://www.ubuntu.com/download/cloud which is a 404
<popey> known problem
 * bigcalm guesses proxy failure
<davmor2> bigcalm: I see what you did there you added an r to poxy
 * bigcalm grumbles at AutoDAB. The interface is buggy and doesn't always work. Ho hum
<bigcalm> davmor2: would work okay with your car as you don't have telephone support
<davmor2> I'd rather have the telephone support :)
<bigcalm> My car is quite common, I'm sure there should be a work around
<davmor2> bigcalm: there is you have to kick it 6 times before a sharp twist to the left ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: this is possibly true
<davmor2> bigcalm: daft as it sounds it might be an issue with your Ariel
<davmor2> unless the reception is awesome
<bigcalm> The reception is fine, it's the control that is messed up
<davmor2> have a read on the t'interwebz
<bigcalm> Documentation is limited
<bigcalm> davmor2: this is the best source of information for using the AutoDAB with a Peugeot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJYxHxYr6Yk
<bigcalm> davmor2: but the demonstration doesn't have telephone control from the steering wheel stork
<bigcalm> Oh, I tell a lie, it doee
<bigcalm> does
<davmor2> liar liar pants on fire
 * bigcalm grumbles and gets back to work
<davmor2> bigcalm: that'll be the flaming pants making you grumble I bet :P
<Daviey> AlanBell / popey: Did you ping me?
<popey> no
<bigcalm> E_TOO_SUNNY
 * bigcalm closes the curtains
<bigcalm> Thunderbird has gone silly(er)
<bigcalm> Calendar reminder keeps reopening itself when I try to close it
<SuperMatt> ?
<SuperMatt> oh, I've had that
<SuperMatt> can't remember how I fixed it though D:
<bigcalm> Restarting Thunderbird has not fixed it
<SuperMatt> eeesh
<zleap> the calender app is lightning
<zleap> maybe you need to reinstall it
<SuperMatt> that won't help
<zleap> ok
<SuperMatt> for as long as the storage.sdb file is there, the problem will reoccour
<bigcalm> More reasons why I want to ditch Thunderbird
<SuperMatt> calendaring should have been built in by default
<SuperMatt> if geary really want to make the best email client, they need to get calendars right
<SuperMatt> ouch
<bigcalm> Does it do calendars?
<SuperMatt> 10 days left and they're only 25% of the way through
<SuperMatt> not yet
<bigcalm> Is geary striving to be a PIM or just an email client?
<SuperMatt> well, they say email client
<SuperMatt> but the thing is that there are no good calendar programs!
<bigcalm> Does gmail offer LDAP or other means to sync contacts?
<SuperMatt> I don't know :/
<SuperMatt> gtg, bye guys
<bigcalm> Taaraa
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm guessing it does then :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: what does what?
<davmor2> bigcalm: gmail sync for contacts
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/software/3357383/sync-gmail-contacts-with-thunderbird-automatically/ I found that if that helps
<bigcalm> davmor2: thanks for that
<davmor2> bigcalm: did it help
<bigcalm> davmor2: no idea, I'm busy elsewhere :)
<davmor2> D'oh
<bigcalm> I shall look later
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer, AlanBell: Do you have any protips on making vtiger faster without buying more hardware?
<AlanBell> Daviey: some ubuntu cloud website oddness, but apparently not your problem
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yes, I can make it go faster
<AlanBell> there are a heap of database indexes that can be added to speed things up, and I can make the reports go masses faster
<AlanBell> (faster by a factor of 500 for one customer)
<MartijnVdS> without hax0ring the code?
<AlanBell> report fix needs hax0ring the code, the rest is just adding database indexes
<MartijnVdS> oh wow.. this is a fresh install for my brothers (& their microbrewery business)
<MartijnVdS> I'd have thought it created its own indexed
<MartijnVdS> indexes
<AlanBell> it does, but not enough of them
<AlanBell> it depends how much data is in the database, some things need more optimisation
<MartijnVdS> there isn't much in it yet -- it's still fresh
<AlanBell> ok, in that case, sorry it is horrifically inefficient :(
<MartijnVdS> is it just indexes on foreign keys etc? Or also other fields?
<AlanBell> for searching we use sphinxsearch
<AlanBell> I turned on reporting all queries that don't use indexes to /var/log/mysql/mysql-slow.log
<MartijnVdS> ah that's a good start I guess
<AlanBell> then everything that turned up there, I created indexes to get rid of it
<MartijnVdS> I'll enable that and have a look
<neuro> well hello
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: http://www.derosetechnologies.com/community/vtiger-sphinxsearch
<directhex> sphinxsearch is nice
<neuro> finally the neuro has COME BACK TO #ubuntu-uk
<directhex> for a java monstrosity, anyway
<AlanBell> that doesn't install completely cleanly, I can dig out our instructions
<directhex> we use sphinx as a replacement mediawiki search provider
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I think I can figure it out :) Thanks for the help!
<AlanBell> but that is massively faster than the *huge* search query it generates searching every field LIKE "%foo%"
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: we are running vtiger on a quickish processor with RAID SSD
<AlanBell> oh and there are some mysql performance tweaks, buffer pool size I think
 * MartijnVdS -> gym now
<bigcalm> directhex: you've got a nose for steam discounts. When would be a good time to by the recent Bioshock game?
 * directhex wets finger, holds it up
<directhex> it'll be 25-33% off in the summer sale (july)
<bigcalm> I can wait for that
<bigcalm> Now, when do we get HL ep3 and Portal3? ;)
<directhex> my skill is sales, not new titles :p
<bigcalm> Ho hum
 * bigcalm buys a comb for his cat instead
<directhex> i have no predictions regarding valve sequels
<bigcalm> Nice that HL2 death match is on Linux steam. Though I really look forward to having HL2 running in Linux without messing
<directhex> i imagine there are odd graphics bugs in the main game proper which are not exposed in any of the deathmatch maps
<bigcalm> I've got to a point in Opposing Force where I can't see how to progress or it's a bug and I can't progress
<bigcalm> Yes, that's what I was thinking as well
<bigcalm> I don't know if you've played recently enough to remember. But it's the alien that comes through a portal and you have to shoot its eyes with 2 fixed lasers. I've defeated it, but there's nothing to do afterwards
<directhex> the final boss, then?
<bigcalm> It is?
<bigcalm> Boo
<bigcalm> I thought there was more to the game
<directhex> it's just an expansion
<bigcalm> I thought the same about Blue Shift as well
<bigcalm> My memory is possibly confusing hl, blue shift, opposing force and hl2
<directhex> you can just watch the ending. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FglcQ0fgfxM&feature=player_detailpage#t=238s
<bigcalm> Aww
<directhex> blue shift is just the extra content from the dreamcast version of half-life. it's not even a full expansion
<bigcalm> Yeah, it didn't green flash and fade to cut screen
 * bigcalm moves the game into the completed category
<popey> happy birthday MooDoo
<Laney> meow
<Laney> what's the format for work items for this month? Work items for ubuntu-13.04-month-6?
<Laney> oops, wrong channel
<mungbean> you need #ubuntu-cats
<mungbean> is the source code for lubottu available?
<Laney> there's lp:ubuntu-bots which may or may not be it
<Laney> </helpful>
<AlanBell> that is it
<mungbean> cheers!
<Myrtti> outdoors IRC
<diddledan> sad news :-( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22160691
<dwatkins> yeah, I'm watching the News24 feed here, utterly deplorable: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22160978
<diddledan> I've got the news24 running on my tv
<popey> so... bug 1167019
<lubotu3> bug 1167019 in linux (Ubuntu) "wifi packet loss on intel Centrino Wireless-N 1000 " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1167019
<popey> clean install of precise works, update it to latest precise and it doesn't, update to raring and it also breaks
<popey> trying to figure out which package to try upgrading next which may break it
<ali1234> the kernel, obviously
<popey> wpasupplicant, network-manager?
<popey> nope
<popey> newer kernel is fine
<ali1234> it has to be
<diddledan> is there a firmware package anyplace?
<popey> on raring I have tried numerous kernels and it's always busted
<popey> on precise it always works, until I dist-upgrade
<popey> same firmware diddledan
<ali1234> even if you update only the kernel?
<popey> yes
<popey> well
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmmm
<ali1234> well?
<popey> i am using upstream kernel builds
<popey> tried 3.8 on raring, still works fine
<popey> not done an "upgrade" of the kernel only
<SuperMatt> did you try reversing the polarity on the deflector dish?
<ali1234> you need to change only one thing at a tme
<popey> indeed
<ali1234> which is what i was getting at the other day
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: did you manage to create a daemon?
<popey> thing is, precise shipped with 3.2
<popey> and then in an update got 3.5
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: yeah, I did :)
<popey> but lots of others along the way
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: nice one
<ali1234> so install 12.04 and then update only the kernel packages manually, using the distro packages
<SuperMatt> it's reading json files now
<popey> ok, that's easy
<SuperMatt> but I need to pad out the code with error checking and stuff
<diddledan> there's a firmware package: $ dpkg -l |grep firmware
<diddledan> ii  linux-firmware                            1.95                                                  all          Firmware for Linux kernel drivers
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: great progress :)
<popey> diddledan: as I said, same version
<diddledan> hmm
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: is it reading more than one account from the JSON config?
<ali1234> i must say that i've been down this road before
<ali1234> i kept testing kernels
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: not yet, but it can do
<bigcalm> \o/
<ali1234> in the end it turned out the card was just broken and the packet loss was totally random even though i thought there was a pattern to it for weeks
<popey> oof
<popey> i can easily reproduce this
<diddledan> in that case then the next upgrade imo would be to try iw and wireless-tools
<ali1234> i could too: just scp about 10GB and it would crash out with mac errors due to packet corruption
<diddledan> work from the kernel up out to the userspace
<popey> disabling N on raring "fixes" it
<ali1234> it would corrupt http transfers too
<popey> ouch
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: the hardest bits are yet to come
<popey> mine just drops
<SuperMatt> getting a program to do what you want is easy
<popey> nm shows connection active but it stops passing packets
<popey> so dns fails, ssh connections bork
<SuperMatt> getting a program to not do what you don't want is where you want to punch things
<popey> then come back 60s later
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: what do you see as being the hard bit?
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Unit tests \o/
<SuperMatt> I've not had to deal with unit tests
<diddledan> I don;t want to suggest the obvious, but the dnsmasq resolv.conf.. does it point to your dns server on your router or isp?
<SuperMatt> but I suspect that the hardest bits will be ensuring all errors are dealt with
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: they take more time than it takes to code the project. But they save so much hair pulling in the long run
<popey> its not that, disabling N fixes it
<popey> (works around)
<diddledan> ok
<SuperMatt> right, closing my browsers now, I can't watch this any more
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: is timer in seconds? (eg 300 for 5 mins)
<bigcalm> You might want to take out the hard paths as well
<SuperMatt> yarr
<SuperMatt> I will do that
<SuperMatt> I just put in hard paths for testing new features
<bigcalm> *nod*
<diddledan> popey, it looks like network-manager directly depends on wpasupplicant, and I can't see any other wireless-related packages in depends
<popey> I'm going to do a clean install on another usb stick
<popey> and then upgrade it
<popey> to prove 100% that updating a precise install breaks it, in case I am mad
<diddledan> supposition of madness is always healthy.. unless you really are mad
<popey> its possible
<diddledan> (I'm mad, btw :-p)
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: ImportError: No module named daemon
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: I'm guessing that I need to install python-daemon
<SuperMatt> yup yup
<bigcalm> That fixed it
<SuperMatt> sorry, not keeping my eye on here at the minute ;)
<SuperMatt> you need a json with username, password, server, daemon, and timer options set. THough I'm sure you can spot that in the main.py
 * bigcalm emails himself
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: yep, made a JSON string with those items
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: want bug reports? :)
<bigcalm> Ooo, just thought of a feature: when displaying the OSD, fetch the sender's avatar from gravatar
 * bigcalm becomes one with evil clients everywhere
<ali1234> popey: suggests you dump a list of every package version before and after update
<popey> ali1234: wise
<popey> well, i certainly have the package list on this machine where it works
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5711518/  ###### before  (for my personal record)
<popey> i have two USB sticks so will have a before stick and an after stick
<popey>  only upgrading wpasupplicant seems okay
<diddledan> hmm
 * popey updates network-manager next
<popey> network-manager alone, no other packages
<popey> brb
<popey> boots pretty quick off usb
<popey> seems okay so far
 * popey ponders what to do next
<diddledan> three other potential packages to try upgrading one-at-a-time are wl, wireless-tools and rfkill
<popey> gonna do the kernel first
<popey>   linux-headers-3.2.0-40 linux-headers-3.2.0-40-generic linux-image-3.2.0-40-generic
<popey> dpkg is so slow on usb
 * popey reboots from 3.2.0-23-generic into 3.2.0-40-generic
<popey> (not expecting this to fail)
<popey> seems okay on 3.2.0-40-generic
<popey> openssl next...
<popey> Preparing to replace openssl 1.0.1-4ubuntu3 (using .../openssl_1.0.1-4ubuntu5.8_amd64.deb) ...
<ali1234> if openssl caused packet loss i will be extremely surprised
<popey> yeah, it didnt
<popey> not sure what to try next
<popey> and am now questioning my own testing â¹
<ali1234> did you try only updating kernel?
<ali1234> 3.2-ubuntu -> 3.5-ubuntu
<popey> not gone to 3.5 yet
<popey> not sure what pulls that in
<popey> dist-upgrade doesn't
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-16
<popey> which is further puzzling me
<popey> backports perhaps
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> which could also have newer version of everything else
<popey> linux-image-generic-lts-quantal
<popey> precise-updates (metapackages): Generic Linux kernel image
<popey> 3.5.0.27.34: amd64 i386
<popey> yup
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5711831/
<popey> worth a punt as it doesn't pull in much
<popey> right, reboot into it
<popey> bah
<popey> morning
<MooDoo> hello all
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Face healing quite quickly: https://twitter.com/opensourcerer/status/324068518326853632/photo/1 :-)
<bigcalm> Still hurting?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yep.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Esp. the nose.
<bigcalm> I've broken my nose twice. It's not fun. Esp having it re-set...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not sure if this is busted or not. Don't think so, but it aches a lot.
<bigcalm> Mine has a kink in it because it wasn't fixed the 1st time it was broken
<bigcalm> Not as good looking as Stephen Fry's though
<bigcalm> Worth a trip to ENT?
<bigcalm> I wonder if kids these days that end up going to an ENT clinic think that they are going to see Tree Beard
<TheOpenSourcerer> I was going to pop in a see my doc this morning but there was a big queue and I don't feel *that* unwell. Also can't be bothered to wait such a long time to see him. Will probably catch him in the pub tonight anyway ;-)
<bigcalm> Ha
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> if nose is broken you need to have it reset sooner rather than later as it is then harder and sorer to reset
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: one too many smart ass comments was it :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> thanks for your understanding czajkowski
<TheOpenSourcerer> remind me. What happened to the paddies in the 6 nations? Worst finish ever wasn't it?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: you know it was really, and now we're in the process of regrouping and getting a new manager so things work out for the best.
<czajkowski> mind your face!
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice to have you back. Missed your demure personality
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> in all seriousness if your nose is still twitchy and sore do get it checked out
<popey> I have some doors that need closing if you want to use your face TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks popey
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> Ours is a caring community if nothing else
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy One Day Without Shoes Day! :-D
<MooDoo> lol
<SuperMatt> one day without shoes day?
<bigcalm> Wearing slippers to the office is a daily luxury
<SuperMatt> I should do that
<SuperMatt> Hightops are not conducive to pleasant feet
<mungbean> on freenode and ircnet, when you choose a channel name nobody has chosen before, does that in effect, create the channel?
<bigcalm> mungbean: yes but it doesn't register it (on freenode). IRCnet has no concept of registration
<bigcalm> It's nice to see people still using IRCnet now and then ;)
<czajkowski> JamesTait: I'm lucky if I actually wear shoes
<JamesTait> czajkowski, but that's by choice, right?
<czajkowski> oh indeed
<czajkowski> come summer time (lol) I'm in flip flops :)
<czajkowski> rarely wear socks in the winter also
<JamesTait> Phew, for a minute there I thought Canonical were forcing you to work for nothing!
 * JamesTait gets out the slave whip.
<bigcalm> The chickens steal the shoes
<mungbean> bigcalm: our it dept use ircnet for discussion
<JamesTait> czajkowski, I wear shoes a lot more now than I ever did at my old house. Not sure why, this house retains the heat better.
<mungbean> its mainly offopic nowadays tho
<mungbean> does anyone think it's a big security issue that site such as comparethemarket, etc allow you to retrieve quotes with only email address, surname and DOB?
<mungbean> such quotes contain a huge wealth of personal info
<AlanBell> such as what car you have?
<bigcalm> And which meerkats you love
<MooDoo> simples
<mungbean> well, address, car details, home details and valuables, spuse name and all their details, all sorts of personal info
<mungbean> not sure which meerkat to choose
<BigRedS> whooo! 13.04!
<BigRedS> Still can't tell whether online accounts is broken or not, though :/
<AlanBell> there are two :(
<BigRedS> yeah, and I don't really get what either does
<BigRedS> but I'd heard this was fixed in 13.04
<AlanBell> one is more gnome/redhatish the other is more ubuntuish
<popey> haha, just logged into comparethemarket
<BigRedS> But filing a bug requires finding out what it is that this is supposed to do and determining what it's doing that's not that
<AlanBell> but I don't really know what they do, or how to add new ones
<popey> Server Error in '/Motor' Application.
<popey> there are two online accounts?
<AlanBell> I don't think you are supposed to add new accounts yet
<popey> I only see one
<BigRedS> AlanBell: they replace the "Add Account" feature of Empathy, and  I think it means I can add my google calendar to the thingy in the top bar
<AlanBell> if you install some gnomey stuff you get the other one
<BigRedS> AlanBell: with Gnome shell you get gnome's one too
<BigRedS> and, hilariously, though they have different icons neither really suggests which is which
<AlanBell> yes but you can only add consumer web services that are pre-installed
<BigRedS> yeah
<popey> nice
<popey> #blamegnome
<BigRedS> Seems to work in Debian...
<AlanBell> yes, this does appear to be gnome/redhat's fault
<BigRedS> Not from here
<AlanBell> interestingly one of them has an owncloud option
<popey> BigRedS: they wouldn't accept our patches
<AlanBell> I have no clue which is the ubuntu one and which is the gnome one
<popey> so we had "no choice" but to make our own
<BigRedS> okay, but why don't either configure empathy?
<BigRedS> I think I just need to find the arsedness to work out what their points are and file some bugs
<popey> dunno about empathy
<BigRedS> though I *know* these issues are known in canonical, so it seems even less worthwhile than normal
<AlanBell> ah right, the one with a legal notice button is the Ubuntu one
<BigRedS> and why do they both have the same name and icon?
<AlanBell> they have different icons for me
<BigRedS> sorry, different icons but neither is gnomey nor ubuntuy
<AlanBell> so the Ubuntu one has more accounts in it, but the gnome one has the owncloud account option which is more exciting because that means things can add themselves to it
<BigRedS> and both are 'in charge' of integrating online account thingies into the DE?
<AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/technologies/online-accounts/
<BigRedS> Oh, that's the ubuntu one?
<BigRedS> cool, so it's the gnome one that's obviously broken
<BigRedS> and as such isn't getting fixed :(
<AlanBell> yeah
<BigRedS> ah well
<AlanBell> "A provider plugin is a loadable .so module which subclasses the Plugin class defined in libaccount-plugin and implements the build_widget() virtual method. "
<BigRedS> Hah. But if I log in to unity pidgin just repeatedly crashes on startup
<BigRedS> I'm so pleased my desktop is this much better than it was four years ago
<popey> pidgin still exists?
<BigRedS> what am I supposed to be using in 13.04?
<Myrtti> surprisingly yes
<popey> dunno, what do you want to do?
<BigRedS> use xmpp
<popey> oof
<popey> just ran empathy
<BigRedS> I have five accounts, only one of which I can get to work in empathy. I couldn't get gajim to work with gnome-shell's notifications very well, but it might do unity I guess
<popey> dialog box comes up saying it cant find some random package
<popey> i alt-tab away to tell you this
<BigRedS> yeah, Ubuntu's not the place to go for a good impression of empathy
<popey> and can't get back to it
<BigRedS> haha
<popey> super+w to the "rescue"
<popey> "empathy-auth-client requests to install the following software package, to provide additional features: account-plugin-msn"
<Myrtti> lol
<Myrtti> no.
<popey> well indeed
<BigRedS> mine doesn'ty
<BigRedS> is it trying to read your MSN config from something else?
<popey> no idea
<popey> i never use it
<BigRedS> yeah, but do you use msn anywhere else?
<popey> not for some while
<popey> i may have configured it in the past
<Myrtti> nobody uses msn
<BigRedS> Haha, and if I open gajim there's no menu bar for it
<Myrtti> :-P
<Myrtti> it is an ex-protocol.
<BigRedS> but, still, what do people use for xmpp these days?
<Myrtti> I love that joke too much, sorry
<popey> hmmm
<popey> my mouse on my desktop scrolls too fast
<Dave2> Bitlbee!
<popey> one nudge of the wheel leaps half way down a page
<Dave2> popey: you gave me flashbacks of binding mouse buttons 4 and 5 in my XF86Config
<popey> wonder if it's because my desktop has a mouse and a touchpoint attached
<JamesTait> BigRedS, Psi+.
<BigRedS> JamesTait: Hmm, I might give that a go. I'm trying to keep as close as possible to what I'm 'supposed' to use, though, since that seems the easiest way of avoiding broken software :)
<BigRedS> I can't find the config for the number of virtual desktops in unity any more. Has it moved (I'm sure it used to be in ccsm's 'unity plugin')?
<AlanBell> they are turned off by default now
<BigRedS> what?
<BigRedS> still, are they turn-onable?
<JamesTait> BigRedS, I know what you mean - I stuck with Empathy for a long time for the same reason, and still run it alongside Psi+.
<AlanBell> yeah, you can turn them on, then the number of them is in ccsm general options desktop size
<JamesTait> But it's mostly an academic exercise now.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> pip pip
<brobostigon> morning popey'ness
<SuperMatt> there, I've finally signed the ubuntu code of conduct
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: well done ;)
<SuperMatt> \o/
<SuperMatt> anyone care to sign my pgp key?
<Laney> errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
<Laney> i hope nobody take that offer up, unless you're offering to meet them
<SuperMatt> very true, I forgot about that ;)
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning bigcalm MooDoo how's life treating you today?
<bigcalm> Panicky. Where's a weekend when you need one?
<MooDoo> davmor2: ok thanks, just going into town in a bit to buy a certification book, how exciting *yawn*
<davmor2> MooDoo: depends if the wildly exciting book leads to better quals and a nicer job then it's woop-di-doo exciting
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes unfortunately it's windows but needs must
<SuperMatt> it's ok, I don't need my key signed! I found my old one which is already signed :D
<zleap> ok just posted a message to the documentation mailing list
<popey> ...
<Azelphur> wow, my landlord just turned up with the police, he told them I threatened to damage the property before I leave
<SuperMatt> ...
<MooDoo> Azelphur: what a silly thing for you to say ;)
<Myrtti> Azelphur: that's messed up.
<Azelphur> yea, he was totally making it up
<MooDoo> Azelphur: he'll get done now for wasting police time
<Azelphur> I just said as much to the police officer and he said fair enough, hung around for a discussion with us to try and keep the peace
<MooDoo> then again
<Azelphur> which got nowhere, the LL is standing in front of the officer saying an oven is not a fitting and not covered under the tenancy agreement
<Azelphur> and stupid shit like that
<bigcalm> !ohmy
<lubotu3> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<NET||abuse> hi folks.
<Azelphur> lol
<MooDoo> hello NET||abuse
<NET||abuse> I have finally,,, finally got my act together and started trying to setup my HP micro N40L last night
<NET||abuse> but...
<bigcalm> What's to set-up?
<SuperMatt> Azelphur: I wonder if he's thinking of another tennant
<Azelphur> dunno
<NET||abuse> I set the ide config into ide and ahci, and in neither mode did ubuntu's intaller see the drives in the 4 disk slots or the extra drive in the caddy on the extra sata connector up top
<NET||abuse> so i couldn't config them
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yc911lwqlubzmoh/Rec_2013-04-15-%2812-16-41%29.3gp is the recording
<MooDoo> Azelphur: so what was the outcome, can't listen to the recording
<bigcalm> Your abuse may be recorded for training purposes
<NET||abuse> i have an external caddy with esata cable which i put into my laptop and checked the 2 disks in the 4 disk array slots and the single disk in the caddy up top and they all checked out fine, mountable readable.
<Azelphur> MooDoo: officer suggested I take legal action
<NET||abuse> bigcalm: hehe, I abuse the net and support agents!
<MooDoo> Azelphur: does he owe you money?
<Azelphur> MooDoo: imo yes, he's sold me something and not provided it
<NET||abuse> it's meant to be NET::ABUSE like a perl cpan lib for abusing things, but :: aren't alowed in irc nicks
<bigcalm> :)
<NET||abuse> anyway, back at the point :P   I did also set it into raid mode and started the fakeraid config utility, it didn't see the drives..
<NET||abuse> flashes message saying "no array configuration exists" or something like that. and when ctrl+f into the raid config utility, the 1,2,3,4 options are there, but 1. i can't see any existing LD's, there's no LD to delete, 3. i can't configure a new LD, 4. i can't remember what option 4 was :P
<NET||abuse> ok, this was at 4am last night, so upon more rested reflection, i must have something  not plugged in right. I'll just have to check the sockets etc tonight.
<bigcalm> To be honest, I can't remember how I set-up my microserver. RAID1 over 2 drives and that was it
<NET||abuse> well, all the forums say use the custom rom to enable ahci on the extra sata connector so you can have a 5th drive and use the multi extender on the esata port on the back,
<NET||abuse> i haven't looked at doing that yet though
<bigcalm> Asking a lot from  a little server
<NET||abuse> and also they say, dont use hte supplied raid on the controller, it's the fakeraid crappy sort. just use it in ahci and use lvm to do your raid.
<bigcalm> Yep, software RAID works fine here
<NET||abuse> bigcalm: popey has a pretty comprehensive setup with his. though i'm not sure he did the custom rom bit
<popey> \o/
<popey> i didnt do any custom rom nonsense
<popey> i have 12 disks in mine, all one giant btrfs volume
<NET||abuse> did you enable the esata on the back for the emm. extender thingy?
<popey> i dont use the built in port
<popey> because it only does single port, not PM
<NET||abuse> the usb one on the mother board then?
<popey> I added an esata card
<NET||abuse> ohhhh
<popey> i use the sata on the mobo for the boot disk in the optical bay
<NET||abuse> what's your wattage usage?
<popey> no idea
<NET||abuse> get one of the power meter plugs.
<popey> i have one
<popey> but it is not attached to that machine
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1169238 amuses me
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1169238 in Unity "[UIFe] BFB icon swirl should run clockwise not anti-clockwise" [Undecided,Triaged]
<Laney> it kind of weirded me out
<popey> that some people attribute meaning to the rotation direction?
<popey> or that we take that on board?
<Laney> that it escalated so much
<popey> yeah
<popey> i dont care â»
<popey> we should change the icon for online accounts to make it noticably different from gnome online accounts. I know.. how about an inverted crusifix, that won't offend anyone.
<Laney> as a leftie I like it the way it is
<Laney> therefore we should make it a preference
<popey> as a lazy human with scant design skills i never noticed
<Laney> me neither :(
<Laney> i only notice it to appreciate how it's cool that it changes colour with the background
<AlanBell> Ubuntu is tough on preferences, and tough on the causes of preferences
<popey> haha
<popey> i like that a lot
<Laney> well, all i have to say is that if you don't make it a preference i'm switching to arch
<Laney> now stick THAT in your bfb and smoke it
 * Laney comes slinking back
<mungbean> can someone screenshot the 13.04 bfb?
<mungbean> its not on the bug
<mungbean> or it looks indentical to the clockwise one
<mungbean> it looks like we're going doing a plughole
<Laney> the swirls go the other way
<xnox> Chillax people, it's a James Bond reference http://youtu.be/gkNeQdLg6Nc
<AlanBell> it represents the rifling in a gun barrel?
<xnox> AlanBell: yes, now we just need all the people for and against "gun laws" in usa to flood the bug report with comments =)
<SuperMatt> my bfb hasn't changed. THE WORLD IS ENDING
<Nafallo> SuperMatt: eventually... for now it will just go backwards :-)
<SuperMatt> what does bfb even stand for?
<mungbean> big freakin' button
<SuperMatt> ah right
<mungbean> since installing 3.5 i've been experiencing some graphical glitches.
<mungbean> font corruption
<mungbean> anyone know of a service to manage android tablets? (remote wipe, manage, install apps?)
<mungbean> installable onsite is preferred
<mungbean> Â£Â£ is OK
<TheOpenSourcerer> mungbean: http://www.androidlost.com/
<mungbean> http://voices.canonical.com/ubuntuone/2013/04/16/music-store-discontinued-in-rhythmbox/
<directhex> .-.
<AlanBell> bit of a climbdown
<AlanBell> gosh, and backporting the removal too
<mungbean> althought the reasoning is that web store purchases -> u1
<mungbean> so no need for rhythmbox if everyone has a web browser
<AlanBell> fair enough, I have only purchased one thing through it ever so I am not too bothered either way
<mungbean> i used to love the banshee amazon mp3 interface
<AlanBell> #1 Ding Dong
<Myrtti> I suppose it makes it easier to embed the store to other players too
<mungbean> but didnt want mono+banshee just to download mp3 from amazon
<AlanBell> that is quite funny, so I guess the userbase must be UK dominated
<Myrtti> I wonder how long it usually takes Dell new products to trickle down to UK
<popey> it doesnt work like that
<popey> hello exobuzz
 * popey saw https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5557985 and thought of AlanBell 
<popey> exobuzz: you should make an image of ubuntu touch for the joggler ã
<AlanBell> popey: I don't think I am in the first round of boards
<exobuzz> hi mate.
<exobuzz> popey, i thought about it, but from what I looked, ubuntu touch doesn't look like it comes in a form where i can easily construct an image - is there x86 versions ready also ?
<exobuzz> It doesnt use Xserver right either ? does it run on android? I know very little as you can see.
<popey> well, there's two things
<popey> Ubuntu Touch runs on top of an Android kernel
<popey> which might make things tricky actually
<popey> but Unity Next can run on a stock Linux kernel
<exobuzz> afaik there is only EMGD driver for older android, which means we would have to run with no 3d accelleration
<exobuzz> aah ok
<popey> http://www.iloveubuntu.net/unity-next-video-demoed-desktop-app-modern-truly-beautiful-experience
<popey> http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/development/unitynext/
<exobuzz> that url was like made on fanboy url generator or something.. ;-)
<exobuzz> will have a read thanks.
<exobuzz> i gave my mum a joggler for her birthday. running basic xubuntu, with glslideshow to act as a photoframe (with browser/xbmc also if needed). made a little script, so the device collects emails from a specific email address, so people can email photos and they appear on her joggler.
<bigcalm> Lovely
<popey> heh nice
<exobuzz> i also freaked everyone out at the teaparty by going upstairs to her pc, sshing in, and making the joggler "espeak" very loudly. because I had half a bottle of bubbly, and it seemed like a funny thing at the time :)
<popey> haha
<exobuzz> popey, so unity next is a uniform interface for all the "next" ubuntu devices that replaces current unity etc ?
<popey> yes
<exobuzz> does it do clever things like differing layout depending on device dimensions/resolution etc ?
<exobuzz> also - will it work with a "single touch" touchscreen ? which is one of the jogglers limitations
<exobuzz> looks nice in the video on that link
<exobuzz> (ive finished asking questions now.. promise ;-) )
<directhex> i wonder what i'm going to do in 2014 for a company distro
<AlanBell> which bit doesn't work for you directhex?
<AlanBell> I wonder if gnome shell will stop working on Ubuntu when Mir happens
<directhex> AlanBell, unity has been a usability disaster for us with nontechnical users (so has shell, to be fair). and as a company with several core wayland developers, i can't start shipping mir to people
<AlanBell> I guess shell/wayland should work still
<ali1234> it will work, it just won't work any better than any other distro, due to no resources being put into testing
<ali1234> so it will work about as well as xubuntu does now, ie it will be barely usable
<exobuzz> popey, one of the biggest issues getting pretty stuff working nicely on the joggler is the graphics drivers - being mostly built on proprietory code. only xserver 1.9 is really properly supported (and supposedly wayland - which I haven't tested). the drivers are buggy. gnome3-shell didnt work last time i tried. nor did unity. maybe llvmpipe would give good enough performance.
<popey> unlikely
<directhex> i've got at least a year to make a decision. i can keep bugfixing our 12.04-based distro for now
<directhex> hardware enablement is the main reason to update a corporate release, imho
<exobuzz> popey, i updated your bug - I don't think the fix is correct at all ;-)
<exobuzz> suggest reverting it, either with some extensions, or waiting until the problem rectifies itself :)
<popey> hah
<exobuzz> sun's out.. 5pm.. recommendations: beer @ pub
<davmor2> exobuzz: bb @ q
<DJones> Hmmh, watching Doctor Who on Watch makes me realise how poor the current doctor who episodes are
<davmor2> DJones: Tenant and piper were the best combo
<davmor2> DJones: however I am liking the new series I fell out with 5-6 I couldn't stand that it seemed like it was the amy-pond show with the boys in tow, at least now it is the Doctor bumbling along with an assistant again :)
<DJones> davmor2: There's too much bumbling for me in this series, tennat & piper work well together, was good tonight because Sarah Jane and K9 were in it as well, recently its had Captain Jack & Face of Boe in the episodes
<shauno> I miss the 'big picture' plots.  with a thread that goes through a season or two.  I'm like clara so far, but they're going very light on the 'big picture'
<diddledan> the dude from the christmas episode was the dude behind the wifi hotspots in ep 1. I think the big picture of this season is going to be him
<diddledan> <spoiler>
<ali1234> richard e. grant
<ali1234> too many time though, the season arc turns out to be total rubbish "it was aliens"
<shauno> I don't actually remember the christmas episode anymore.  sticking a 4-year gap half way through the season really doesn't work for me
<diddledan> o_O
<shauno> in other news, Sherlock has probably died of old age
<diddledan> yeah, sherlock really needs another series
<Myrtti> they were shooting it few weeks ago
<diddledan> there were questions over the hobbit's mass appeal making for dr watson being too well known to make a small series like sherlock (I can't think of his real name right now.. I suck)
<shauno> beats me too.  all that comes to mind is arthur dent
<shauno> completely OT, any suggestions on how you go about applying for jobs in a country where you don't speak the language?
<diddledan> google translate
<shauno> I find plenty that ask for "fluent english", but I'm not convinced I'm what they had in mind
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> they should stipulate whether they require local lingo too
<diddledan> get your missus to move to ireland! :-p
<shauno> it would make my life easier, but I can understand why they don't
<diddledan> irish is easy. all you need do is say something incoherent and suffix it with "to be sure" and you're set
<diddledan> and there's my racist comment of the day
<shauno> I actually heard that line used with a straight face today
<dogmatic69> Can someone tell me what the envelope / mail icon in the top bar is from?
<dogmatic69> It seems to integrate / connect with thunderbird as it shows new mail, but clicking it does not focus thunderbird.
<dogmatic69> it opens the new mail though, just wont switch windows.
<ali1234> it's not from anything in particular
<ali1234> it's an indicator
<popey> 36
<popey> bah!
<MartijnVdS> popey: in a row?!
<MartijnVdS> </Clerks>
<mungbean> friend saw them in euston filming sherlock on monday
<diddledan_> \o/
<jacobw> Ooh
<AlanBell> wayland now works on the raspberry pi which is mildly interesting
<diddledan_> nice
<AlanBell> and it has colour profile support now too, which is also interesting
<diddledan_> I really need me a colourhug (I think that's what they're called)
<diddledan_> http://hughski.com/
<AlanBell> colour management doesn't appear to be a feature of Mir at all, which is a shame
<diddledan_> I'm sure it'll come eventually
<shauno> I think that's the wrong way to do it :/  like accessibility, it works better when it's not a bolt-on afterthought
<AlanBell> I don't really understand the objectives of Mir
<AlanBell> in terms of features, like full desktop zoom, text tracking zoom, colour managment, wobbly windows, desktop transitions etc
<AlanBell> I know it is an openGL rendering path like compiz, but there is a wall of text about it, which doesn't in any way say what it will actually do
<shauno> I never saw the appeal of wobbly windows.  other than "composite all the things!"
<AlanBell> sure, I was just throwing it out there as a thing, I have no idea if that is something Mir can or can't do
<diddledan_> it certainly hasn't been explained to my satisfaction why wayland is less of a fit than reinventing the wheel
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/Spec is kind of low level detail, I was expecting some salesy stuff at some point
<diddledan_> yeah, I'm not clever enough to understand the low level stuff
<AlanBell> seamless transitions between form factors is something it claims to do
<AlanBell> and drop shadows
<diddledan_> yey
<diddledan_> drop shadows are very important!
<AlanBell> actually it is important that they are done properly if at all
<AlanBell> and openGL is kinda good at that sort of thing
<diddledan_> I wonder how likely it is that the video chip vendors are going to support a diverging pair of standards in mir and wayland and potentially legacy support for X for their driverstacks
<directhex> in theory they don't need to
<directhex> they need good EGL drivers, which both can consume
<AlanBell> very likely they will support android/mir together
<diddledan_> I see
<directhex> they won't target mir.
<AlanBell> they will hit it by accident
<directhex> they may, yes
<AlanBell> caught in the crossfire
<directhex> via EGL
<AlanBell> http://www.ebuyer.com/494729-busbi-tablet-pc-111019 would something like that be rootable do you think?
<mungbean> http://www.losethegame.com/
<mungbean> you just all lost
<diddledan_> so, is it time for me to get my raring ringworm on yet or not?
<mungbean> whens release day?
<diddledan_> 25?
<diddledan_> I can't remember
<mungbean> ive never known such an uninspiring release
<diddledan_> wow, good guess.. it IS the 25th
<mungbean> maybe im gettin old but lts are v appealing to me nowadays
<diddledan_> final freeze is thursday
<diddledan_> looks like it's the same day for the RC to land
<diddledan_> then a week on thursday is the release
<AlanBell> and the party \o/
<AlanBell> or quiet drink in a pub as they are now known
<shauno> I wanted to make a comment, but realised I have no idea which alan is which anymore
<AlanBell> neither have I
<shauno> one of you showed up on twitter looking like you'd met an earthmover in a kissing booth.  I'm just not sure who now.  so jokes re: a quiet drink will have to wait
<AlanBell> oh, that was theopensourcerer
<AlanBell> and yeah, he is in a bit of a state
<AlanBell> should I be using sparkleshare rather than dropbox?
<AlanBell> or try owncloud again?
<shauno> I was less than impressed with owncloud's syncing apps
<shauno> I keep ending up back at dropbox because they have "just works" down pat
<ShinyUmbreon> Hello
<mungbean> ive reached a low...reading the inane comments on omg about the swastika bfb
<mungbean> AlanBell: ownclod workd ok here ,has saved my butt too
<MindCrash> hello how do i get the email to reset my irc password?
<AlanBell> !info sparkleshare
<lubotu3> sparkleshare (source: sparkleshare): distributed collaboration and sharing tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.0-2ubuntu1 (quantal), package size 415 kB, installed size 814 kB
<AlanBell> !info sparkleshare raring
<lubotu3> sparkleshare (source: sparkleshare): distributed collaboration and sharing tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.0-2ubuntu1 (raring), package size 415 kB, installed size 814 kB
<directhex> we have newer packaged
<directhex> but the debian freeze is a huge demotivator
<AlanBell> ok, I have sparkleshare working with my git back end with redmine as the web UI for it
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-17
<Lil-|^Red> A little wave of hello comes from Lil-|^Red
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Lil-|^Red> OT | Morning bigcalm. I left the radio on in the bedroom last night. | Awoke at 5.30am on the wrong planet... facepalm.
<mungbean> quiet today. everyone must be at maggies funeral
<brobostigon> mungbean: unfortunatly not, i have the other evil to go to, the jobcentre.
<mungbean> arrgh gpu hangup killed my machine again
<mungbean> what a plague this bug is
<MooDoo> no at work
<mungbean> i check irc before email nowadays ;_
<mungbean> testing some commands on irssi to hide the joins/quits
<mungbean> hope it works
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy World Haemophilia Day!
<MooDoo> morning
<popey> morning
<popey> mungbean: i check irc from bed before I get up these days
<mungbean> jacked into the matrix
<popey> i use the irssi notifier which pings notifications to my android phone
<popey> indeed, in my pants too
<mungbean> how to hide joins/quits in irssi?
<mungbean> thought i'd don ei t but not worked
<mungbean> http://www.irssi.org/documentation/tips
<mungbean> didn't' work for me
<popey> for busy channels I use ignore of CRAP MSGS NOTICES SNOTES CTCPS JOINS PARTS QUITS KICKS MODES TOPICS WALLOPS INVITES NICKS DCC DCCMSGS CLIENTNOTICES CLIENTCRAP CLIENTERRORS HILIGHTS
<Seeker`> in all other channels he just uses /ignore Seeker`
<mungbean> ignore -channels #ubuntu-uk * JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS
<mungbean> like that?
<popey> i think so, not done it for a while
<mungbean> waits for someone to leave
<Lil-|^Red> ...
<Seeker`> mungbean: how will you know if they've left?
<mungbean> has anyone left lately?
<mungbean> since 10.57?
<Myrtti> yu
<Myrtti> p
<mungbean> ta
<mungbean> works then \o/
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm guessing that if you're not at the LUG tonight, you're unlikely to be at the Lighthouse tomorrow?
<davmor2> bigcalm: indeed not.  Too much to do too little time
<bigcalm> davmor2: story of life for many people
<davmor2> bigcalm: week before the release, it's always organised chaos :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: organised you say? :P
<davmor2> Yeah there are people managing the chaos, so that's organised right?
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<Seeker`> So, I requested a new pc at work 7 weeks ago. I was originally told it would take 'up to 10 days' as there were a couple of special requirements. I still haven't received it -_-
<davmor2> MooDoo: me even owlda mucka
<Seeker`> Pretty sure that I can order and receive a PC in < 24 hours
<MooDoo> davmor2: pah
<Seeker`> Not entirely sure how someone can drag it out for 7 weeks
<bigcalm> Current wallpaper made me titter http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/1149646
<popey> hah
<davmor2> bigcalm: haha
<bigcalm> :)
<Lil-|^Red> :-D
<kvarley> How do I tell which NVIDIA proprietary driver I need to select in "Additional Drivers"?
<kvarley> lspci -v reports "NVIDIA Corporation G98 [GeForce 9300M GS] (rev a1)"
<popey> what options do you have?
<kvarley> popey: http://en.zimagez.com/full/7c31858ba4ac134c329a618ec91320d47da3d694e0bba5106924c0fb25bf0a9d19ceba43d9a8a40c4ab983ab8c3176b15e80c930dabe7cb0.php
<kvarley> I was considering the top one, what just curious what the 310 and 173 and 304 numbers mean? Are they chipset codes?
<popey> that doesnt look like ubuntu
<popey> is it xubuntu or something? very grey
<kvarley> popey: It's XUbuntu, but it's using the same tool as Ubuntu uses
<popey> I'd choose the first one
<directhex> kvarley, the numbers are driver series
<kvarley> I'll ask in #xubuntu if it's more appropriate, I just know lots of friendly people are present in this loco :)
<directhex> kvarley, basically when nvidia give up on keeping every old chip supported in their latest driver, they dump it. the last working version stays in the archive, and gets occasionally patched up
<popey> no that wasnt my point
<kvarley> directhex: This is an old laptop, Acer Aspire 6930. Is there an easy way to find out what series the gpu in this laptop is from?
<kvarley> popey: Should've said, sorry! :)
<directhex> kvarley, well, it's a geforce 9300m
<kvarley> directhex: Going with the top option then, thanks
<directhex> kvarley, the latest driver supports (almost) all cards with an 8xxx model number or above
<kvarley> directhex: Thanks :)
<directhex> the 173-series drivers support cards from 6xxx to 9xxx (not all 9xxx cards though, as far as i can see)
<directhex> the 96-series drivers do most geforce 2's through to 6xxx
<directhex> i think support for geforce 1, some geforce 2, and TNT cards, is lost now
<brunogirin> #ubuntu-touch
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<bigcalm> Humm
<davmor2> bigcalm: something wrong
<directhex> moo moo moo
<jacobw> MOO
<bigcalm> davmor2: was unable to get to some sites for a bit and spotify's buffer ran out for a while. All working now
<Lil-|^Red> Question:: Anyone know if this is avail. for ubuntu yet ? http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/doom-3-bfg-edition-pc-steam-download-game-5-1529267?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=04172013&utm_campaign=Daily%2BHot
<Lil-|^Red> sorry for the advert stuff.
<directhex> Lil-|^Red, doom 3 bfg edition will never get an "official" linux binary, but there's a source tree you can build
<Lil-|^Red> right, thank-you.
<bigcalm> Spotify needs a service status section on their website
<Lil-|^Red> try #spotify  ...least it's logged.
<Lil-|^Red> Spotify :( .. also avail in Portugal, Poland and Italy. https://plus.google.com/103093000923989045518/posts/EnqTP2nhQC3  )
<Lil-|^Red> nice playlist/s on that one.
<kvarley> Awesome having android mtp support in 13.04 :)
<mungbean> giffgaff are intriducing a 7.50 goodybag too
<SuperMatt> what's on that one?
<mungbean>  200mins, 250mb internet
<mungbean> unlmtd txts , free to gg
<SuperMatt> not bad for catfacts purposes
<mungbean> i use less than those limits
<mungbean> cos i'm on wifi at work and home
<mungbean> i would upgrade to Â£10 when on holida
<SuperMatt> even at home I use a lot of my data tariff because I'm in an ooold victorian house with *2* wifi points, and it still doesn't get everywhere I need it
<SuperMatt> and when I'm at work... I don't want to log in to the work wifi with my credentials because I oft want to look at things... not work related
<SuperMatt> though actually, I mostly use it at work to check if admin areas of our websites are accessable from external IPs
<SuperMatt> which they shouldn't be :P
<mungbean> you cold always use the work wifi to vpn to your home server
<mungbean> for browsing reddit
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: hmm, browsing reddit ;)
<bigcalm> Do 64bit win bins generally work in wine, or should I stick to 32bit versions? This is regarding an update for an application that I'm already running in wine
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: what happened when you tried? :)
<MartijnVdS> I think wine's 64-bit support is still experimental.. but I'm not sure
<davmor2> bigcalm: 2.4. Does Wine run on 64-bit? on http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: it was more to know if I should waste time downloading a 64bit version :)
<bigcalm> Ta
<MartijnVdS> davmor2++
<bigcalm> Ah, so I need wine64 to run it
 * bigcalm goes for the 32bit bin for simplicity
<directhex> wine works transparently on 64-bit
<directhex> it doesn't have support for 64-bit windows apps afaik though
<MartijnVdS> directhex: the FAQ says it could have Win64-support, but it's experimental
<directhex> 32-bit is only useful in 2013 if you have less than 3.5G of RAM in your system
<bigcalm> Huh, 64bit version worked without having to install anything else
<bigcalm> That was a surprise
<MartijnVdS> directhex: too bad Windows programs tend to come in 32-bit only
<MartijnVdS> directhex: and IF they come in 64-bit versions, they're marked as "you want the other one", because people still run XP and they don't want complaints
<directhex> well, games are 32-bit because they're designed to run in 200 meg of RAM
<directhex> because ps3
<directhex> and apps... well 64-bit apps can't use 32-bit libs and vice versa
<MartijnVdS> sure but firefox turned of 64-bit builds
<MartijnVdS> off*
<directhex> who wants a pluginless browser?
<MartijnVdS> I'm not sure about latest Office
<MartijnVdS> directhex: \o
<directhex> office 2010+, some apps are available in 64-bit
<directhex> i.e. excel
<directhex> http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/word-help/choose-the-32-bit-or-64-bit-version-of-office-HA010369476.aspx
<MartijnVdS> so it's the python 3-problem all over again?
<MartijnVdS> no libs -> no programs -> no libs
<directhex> yes
<SuperMatt> I want to program in python3, but many of the libraries I want haven't been updated :(
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Django works with 3 now!
<directhex> office isn't a product, it's an ecosystem. millions are spent every year on 3rd party plugins for office
<directhex> 32-bit plugins
<SuperMatt> sure, but things like python-daemon don't :(
<directhex> (especially outlook)
<MartijnVdS> directhex: yeah, I've seen outlook plugins
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I think I cried blood that day
<bigcalm> This API I'm working with uses UNIT32 for all timestamps. It's Zigbee and thus uses an offset of 946684800 seconds (1st Jan 2000). But even so, it's used in embedded devices. Not good to be limiting to 32bit :(
<davmor2> SuperMatt: they are slowly, very slowly
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: UINT32, I hope? :)
<ali1234> why do you need a library to do [close(n) for n in [0, 1, 2]]
<bigcalm> Thankfully, I am unlikely to care in 2068 :)
<SuperMatt> doesn't help that the daemon PEP is still being decided upon
<SuperMatt> pull your fingers out!
<SuperMatt> I guess I could contribute...
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: you're right, it is. Muscle memory :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: UNIT32 sounds like something from Doctor Who
<bigcalm> :D
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: well UNIT needs barracks too you know
<bigcalm> Do I want a steak for tea?
<neuro> yes
<bigcalm> It is at a Weatherspoons
<bigcalm> In Wolverhampton
<neuro> well then, you can have a pint with your steak :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: so go there :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> A pint or 2 is inevitable - it's LUG night
<neuro> having a scotlug post-meet pint in wetherspoons was always handy, because thursdays were curry nights
<bigcalm> http://www.jdwetherspoon.co.uk/home/food/menu/main/mains-2
<bigcalm> Yeah, we're always a day early for that
<neuro> i really should start going to scotlug again, haven't been for years
<bigcalm> Tests: 211, Assertions: 2181, Failures: 1, Errors: 1.
<MartijnVdS> neuro: would they recognise you?
<neuro> probably
<bigcalm> Took 35mins to run those tests
<bigcalm> Gah
<neuro> i must admit, i'm loving my new job
<neuro> getting to replace a whole bunch of win2k3 and win2k8 with ubuntu ;)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: juju deploy ...?
<neuro> once i get my head round it, hopefully
<davmor2> neuro: Landscape it all :)
<neuro> Â£Â£Â£Â£!!!
<davmor2> neuro: it's not that expensive
<bigcalm> This is why turning up 'on time' is a bad thing. No other bugger does and I'm all on my tod for the LUG
<kindercore> anyone from UK
<MartijnVdS> kindercore: nah, this is the UK channel :)
<kindercore> are youfrom di UK
<MartijnVdS> I'm not, but most other people in here are from the UK
<MartijnVdS> United Kingdom, not Ukraine ;)
<kindercore> have you ever checked out your gf feet?
<MartijnVdS> ...
<MartijnVdS> !spam
<kindercore> ?
<MartijnVdS> !topic
<lubotu3> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<popey> wat
<MartijnVdS> oh great
<MartijnVdS> now he's pming
<popey> kindercore: stop
<kindercore> stop what
<popey> inappropriate conversations
<kindercore> pompey
<MartijnVdS> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, AlanBell, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<MartijnVdS> he's still pming.. adding /ignore
<mungbean> scientifically proven, best baby relax music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rKYZ_BGxPM
<AlanBell> never gonna give you up . . .
<directhex> mungbean, lullabies aren't effective with babies. white noise is, since it sounds like the general sounds of outside the womb when in the womb
<directhex> i.e. sounds of rain, or the ocean, etc
<directhex> or chainsaws.
<davmor2> bigcalm: whine whine whine
<directhex> In the early days, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Aw9o-4KUc worked quite well for sending nathan to sleep
<AlanBell> top tip, leave a running chainsaw in the nursery to send your child to sleep
<MartijnVdS> directhex: My mother once told me I wouldn't sleep unless he turned on the vacuum cleaner :)
<directhex> MartijnVdS, that correlates with what i said. seems legit.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Q: What's red and shrinking? A: A baby with a chainsaw.
<marsilainen> what is the nicest GUI tool for ripping tracks from audio CDs these days?
<MartijnVdS> I use sound-juicer
<MartijnVdS> but rhythmbox can do it as well
<MartijnVdS> sound-juicer has nice musicbrainz options (to get metadata)
<marsilainen> ok
<marsilainen> ta
<mungbean> ive truied all vids, white noise and pink noise etc, cricket, waterfall,but lullaby works best
<davmor2> mungbean: technically the best is meant to be a dull heart beat.  That's why kids tend to fall asleep when you hold their head near your chest
<mungbean> i dont have boobs, boobs are required
<mungbean> i tried faking it but baby knew
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: eat more ;)
<mungbean> have some catching up to do
<davmor2> mungbean: female hormone tablets
<mungbean> what was the "new morse" like?
<mungbean> endeavour
<Myrtti> mungbean: get a soundboard app on your phone, something like Relax and Sleep on Android, I'm sure they've got both white noise and heartbeat as options, then put the phone on and put it into a pocket or something
<amayer> if i disable secure boot(uefi) i can boot ubuntu and install it just like the good old days right?
<MartijnVdS> even with secure boot on it should work I think? isn't that one of the reasons for the 12.04.2 release?
<MartijnVdS> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
<MartijnVdS> Use the last version of Ubuntu. Support for UEFI appeared in 11.10, but has become more reliable in next versions. Support for UEFI SecureBoot appeared in 12.10 and 12.04.2.
<amayer> awesome! ill have to get the most recent iso
<MartijnVdS> yes
<amayer> i didnt think support came out yet for uefi.
<MartijnVdS> 11.10 supported UEFI
<MartijnVdS> but 12.04 and 12.10 (and upcoming 13.04) have better support for it
<directhex> you can install in 16-bit 8086 mode, too, if you force legacy-only boot in your firmware setup
<directhex> i.e. no uefi support needed by os
<mungbean> does lightread app still work?
<popey> mungbean: did it ever?
<ali1234> considering that it won first prize in the ubuntu app showdown i would hope so
<ali1234> but then again looking at the list of judges...
<mungbean> used to work for me occasionally
<mungbean> ah still sort of working
<mungbean> thought goog reader was gone away
<mungbean> lightread won a comp but bugs werent followed up
<mungbean> running 1.1.1
<mungbean> looks like a ppa might have newer one
<mungbean> thats better
<Lil-|^Red> Anyone got any tasty treats off the Ubuntu Newsletter #312 ? http://bit.ly/11eIYhU
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-18
<Lil-|^Red> !anyone
<lubotu3> A high percentage of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..." Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.
<Myrtti> if you tried, I'm sure you could be a little bit more consistent
<Lil-|^Red> Myrtti: Thanks for the heads-up .. just watching Jono and reading the newsletter tonight .. To be Frank .. my choice of IRC Client is the problem/inconsistent-ness.
<Lil-|^Red> but chances of getting that solved is like asking a farmer what milk I should drink so I don't get fat off the land.
<Lil-|^Red> ... tonight, here anyway.
<MooDoo> helo all
<TheOpenSourcerer> mornign earthlings
<TheOpenSourcerer> or morning even ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> keyboard dylsexia
<MooDoo> lol
<popey> pip pip
<MooDoo> morning popey
<JamesTait> CQ, CQ, CQ - Happy Amateur Radio Day, over!
<SuperMatt> 10 four good buddy
<JamesTait> :D
<popey> What's our vector Victor?
<popey> Clearance Clarence!
<popey> Roger, Roger.
<marsilainen> is there a way to generate German umlauted characters from an English keyboard layout? (eg. via Alt-Gr somehow)
<marsilainen> I use the characters rarely, but annoying to have to bring up a character map when I do need them
<marsilainen> I wouldn't want to switch my whole keyboard layout to German as I just need an occasional character
<marsilainen> (eg. for someone's name)
<Laney> marsilainen: It'd probably be best if you enable the compose key
<Laney> System Settings â Keyboard â Layout Settings â Options â Compose key position
<marsilainen> Laney: ok, thanks - I'll look into how to use that
<Laney> it'll take over whatever key you pick there (I have mine as Ã§Ã¤ps ÅÃ³ÄÄ¸)
<Laney> then you press <compose>"a to get Ã¤
<marsilainen> ah, great - thanks
<marsilainen> thanks, seems to work fine
<Laney> try <compose>:) ;-)
<marsilainen> âº
<popey> â»
<Laney> 1337
<AlanBell> that is pretty cool
<Laney> I had cccp set up to give a hammer and sickle once but I forgot how to do it and lost the configuration :(
<popey>  /completion -auto "cccp" â­
<popey> should do it
<popey> â­
<popey> yup
<Laney> oh irssi, I was talking about compose in general
<popey> oh
<Myrtti> it also kinda depends if you've got dead keys enabled or not
<Laney> I think you make a ~/.XCompose file
<marsilainen> it's not a character I often need TBH :p
 * bigcalm spins about on his office chair
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> Can you guess why the spinning? :D
<JamesTait> bigcalm, because you can?
<bigcalm> popey: when you connection went to 60mb, did your upstream stay the same around 3mb?
<bigcalm> JamesTait: that is always a good reason to do so
<popey> yes bigcalm
<bigcalm> popey: ah, that's fair enough then
<popey> just speedtested it
<popey> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2653523287.png
<bigcalm> Mine from this morning http://www.speedtest.net/result/2653502098.png
<Laney> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2653528483.png
<kvarley> Just compressed a accdb file 11.6MB into a zip and the zip is 825.2KB, can this be right?
<bigcalm> I wrote a script to download soundcloud playlists which I run now and then on a podcast. Glancing at the output of wget made me double take. 7.5mb/s, that can't be right... :)
<bigcalm> Laney: SDSL?
<popey> Laney is in Denmark?
<Laney> 2wtf
<Laney> speedtest cocked that one up
<kvarley> bigcalm: I'm rocking my 450kb/s connection
<bigcalm> heh
<kvarley> ADSL ftl
<Laney> I still had it in my browser showing my results
<Laney> refresh â some danish one
<Laney> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2653534608.png
<popey> get you
<Laney> I get (relatively) shit speeds on wireless though
<popey> bummer
<brobostigon> [A
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bigcalm> I'm in for a really poopy day. Yet seeing my connection has been upped, not so poopy
<bigcalm> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<bigcalm> Wind just blew my window shut - that's enough fresh air for you, back to work!
<popey> sunny!
<bigcalm> And here
<bigcalm> I can't see any blue sky, but the sun still shines
<MooDoo> here too
<bigcalm> What's the plural of axis?
<MooDoo> same
<bigcalm> Ah, Wiktionary says axes
<MooDoo> sorry meant it's aces
<MooDoo> axes
<MooDoo> rats I can't type
<bigcalm> :)
<meet> a quick query. in ifconfig i am getting different hwaddr for eth0 and wan0 . should not they be the same
<bigcalm> meet: no, they are two separate network devices, just happen to be in the same system
<bigcalm> If they had the same hardware address, you couldn't use them individually
<meet> bigcalm: but hwaddr is the mac address .. right?
<bigcalm> Yes
<meet> then my device has 2 mac addresses?
<meet> dell laptop
<directhex> meet, at least
<bigcalm> eth0 is the wired port, wan0 is the wifi connection
<bigcalm> directhex: we
<directhex> MAC addresses are found on wired networks, wireless networks, bluetooth, and TV cards
<bigcalm> Ah, least not last
<meet> does that mean i have 2 NIC?
 * bigcalm goes back to his cave
<bigcalm> Yes
<directhex> meet, yes
<meet> ok.. one for wifi and other for wired.. that way .. right?
<directhex> meet, yeah. typically an intel centrino wireless, and some cheap ethernet chip (maybe realtek)
<meet> directhex: so on a desktop or an old pc.. both the hwaddr will be same presumably?
<directhex> meet, on a desktop or an old pc, you wouldn't have a wan0 device
<meet> oh.. ya right :)
<directhex> meet, you get one device listed in ifconfig per network device. many desktops have more than one wired connection. so eth0, eth1, eth2...
<bigcalm> directhex: I was quite surprised that my Alienware X51 desktop has wifi
<meet> ok.. and hwaddr=hardware address?
<bigcalm> meet: yes
<directhex> and virtual network devices (if you use virtualization software like virtualbox) gets a fake MAC too
<directhex> meet, yes
<meet> thanks a lot bigcalm and directhex :)
<directhex> directhex@desire:~$ ifconfig | grep HWaddr
<directhex> eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:24:1d:12:05:4d
<directhex> eth1      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:24:1d:12:05:4f
<directhex> virbr0    Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 1e:9a:9e:ef:5d:1c
<directhex> meet, oh, one more thing that might interest you
<meet> ya?
<directhex> meet, the first 6 digits of the MAC address are supposedly unique to a device manufacturer. so you can identify the network card brand from the MAC
<directhex> e.g. with my example above
<directhex> http://www.coffer.com/mac_find/?string=00%3A24%3A1d
<meet> hm.. nice .. :)
<directhex> 00:24:1d is gigabyte. and i have a gigabyte motherboard
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: Alex wasn't at the lug last night and I forgot to mention about today. I'm guessing he hasn't gone
<davmor2> bigcalm: you can probably ask him on wolveslug (which almost certainly means he is home)
<Myrtti> I wonder should I outdo a friend who recently met RMS by meeting an actual freedom fighter who flies around the world meeting and talking to people
<Myrtti> *ponder*
<bigcalm> Superman?
<davmor2> Captain America?
<bigcalm> He doesn't fly
<Myrtti> then again I think the speeches are already prebooked to other people
<Myrtti> uni students and like
<Myrtti> Dalai Lama
<Myrtti> https://plus.google.com/108551811075711499995/posts/5BzQZ6pDVb4
<bigcalm> Nice
<davmor2> bigcalm: so you finally joined the 21 century then
<bigcalm> davmor2: my taste in music has yet to do so
<bigcalm> davmor2: but yes, it was a nice surprise this morning
<davmor2> bigcalm: musically I think we are both back in the 80's and 90's
<bigcalm> Speaking of which, I'm on the phone to Halfords to try and get my DAB problem fixed
<davmor2> bigcalm: what issue is that
<bigcalm> davmor2: the stork controls aren't working as advertised. 1) I can't access the system menu, 2) changing station only works buy going up the list
<Myrtti> aw, gord isn't here
<popey> indeed, wanted to wish him HB earlier
 * popey opens skype
<bigcalm> If I'm on Absolute 90s and want to go to Absolute 80s, I have to go though all 60ish stations
<davmor2> bigcalm: ouch
<bigcalm> Yeah, bit miffed
<bigcalm> I sent a support request to the AutoDAB manufacturer, but haven't had a response
<SuperMatt> a lot of digital radios seem to be content with just backwards and forward buttons
<SuperMatt> there's too many channels for that!
<SuperMatt> it was ok when we only had 5 tv channels, but I think it's time to move on
<bigcalm> Indeed, this unit does allow for 7 preset stations. But I can't access the system menu to set any
<bigcalm> Paid a fair bit for the unit and for Halfords to fit it. Glad I did, it's their problem to fix :)
<bigcalm> Oddly, I found that listening to Kerrang was clearer on FM than it was via DAB
<SuperMatt> well the thing is, digial radio isn't so hot in cars. It doesn't deal with movement very well
<bigcalm> True
<SuperMatt> when you're in a good spot, of course the sound is better, but start moving and it starts to degrade *quickly*
 * bigcalm ponders where to slither off to for lunch
<SuperMatt> I'm going to itsu
<SuperMatt> in about 15 minutes
<bigcalm> tisu?
<bigcalm> itsu?
<popey> wise!
<SuperMatt> the only problem with itsu is that it's quite close to mcdonalds
 * popey goes to get something nommy for lunch
 * popey ponders what though
<SuperMatt> in fact, I have to cross and extra road to get to itsu
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: McDonald's it is then
 * TheOpenSourcerer feels a wander into town coming on. Visit to the bank to deposit a cheque (why do customers still pay with cheques?)
<funkyHat> The *only* problem with itsu?
<funkyHat> Actually there is an itsu right outside here
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: so that they get to hang on to their money for a little bit longer
<funkyHat> And a Pret, and an Eat
<TheOpenSourcerer> Maybe bigcalm but the customers who pay us with cheques always pay well before the due date...
<bigcalm> Wow, their website is majorly messed up in chromium
<funkyHat> I have clients who pay by cheque, I think they are scared of technology and used to cheques
 * SuperMatt shakes a fist at a "mail provider" called mailgun
<SuperMatt> they only retry sending an email once, and that's from a random mail server in their pool, so it's not guaranteed to pass greylisting.
<TheOpenSourcerer> One for lunchtime reading: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2035651/open-source-is-taking-over-the-software-world-survey-says.html :-D Some of us knew this already...
<SuperMatt> I've fired off an email to them
<directhex> SuperMatt, so they don't understand email then?
<SuperMatt> clearly not!
<Lil-|^Red> OT | Rick shared an interesting App .. a c ouple of days ago | http://bit.ly/Gubuntucat
<SuperMatt> I've just found the weirdest bug
<SuperMatt> typing the letter n into my launcher is entering an invisible character
<Lil-|^Red> SuperMatt .. Check the CapLock, Alt, Tab, SuperKey and Tilda key are not active.
<SuperMatt> logging out and back in again fixd it
<mungbean> whats happenin kids
<bigcalm> Tired and I want to go to bed
<Laney> i had a little drink about an hour ago
<bigcalm> And it's gone straight to my head
<mungbean> dum dum dum dum dum dum JAWSS
 * bigcalm ponders a nap
<bigcalm> +1 for working from home
<mungbean> there's a violent hailstorm outside
<bigcalm> Just grey here
<brobostigon> cloudy/sunny spells here.
<Myrtti> I should get my dyepot inside, it's probably cooled enough
<davmor2> Myrtti: I read that as despot I was wondering which dictator was outside yours :)
<mungbean> polpot
<Myrtti> mungbean: close, but not quite https://plus.google.com/100016383867666174158/posts/6P5rcuWAirW
<bigcalm> davmor2: car booked in with Halfords for Monday lunchtime. They were quite apologetic
<davmor2> bigcalm: nice
<mungbean> this server room has stalactites
<mungbean> http://ubuntuone.com/2VMi3eSP8zKjAwZ9vA4p00
<bigcalm> Oh my
<bigcalm> That doesn't look healthy
<mungbean> i wanted to touch one but they also stored radioactive material in there so i didn't. looked like crumbly limestone on the floor of the room. checkmate atheists
<mungbean> from the stalacmites that got stamped on
<Myrtti> it's going to be such a lovely green yarn
<mungbean> my wife is knitting me a jumper in sirdar chunky
 * xnox giggles at searching for "aa" and finding a manpage:
<xnox> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/quantal/en/man1/aa.1.html
<MooDoo> http://youtu.be/tj7al6MXu7U - can I borrow your iphone?
 * bigcalm drums his fingers, waiting for chapter 2 to come out for Kentucky Route Zero
<brunogirin> xnox: brilliant, I've learnt a new command today!
<xnox> the AA team!
<davmor2> xnox: invalid option error: team is an unknown option use AA --help for assistance :D
<mungbean> sucks. bug 1140716
<lubotu3> bug 1140716 in linux-lts-quantal (Ubuntu Precise) "[regression] 3.5.0-26-generic and 3.2.0-39-generic GPU hangs on Sandybridge" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1140716
<mungbean> upgraded to 3.5 kernel because that was suggested
<mungbean> now the fix is in 3.2.x proposed
<mungbean> oh, looks like proposed fix aint working for some
<mungbean> anyone have suggestions on where would be good to buy 100 x samsung galaxy note 2
<Myrtti> how many?
<Myrtti> *squint*
<mungbean> yes
<Myrtti> nice.
<mungbean> about a hundred or so
<MartijnVdS> call your local Samsung representative ;)
<mungbean> tablet not phone
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: still, a Samsung salesperson would probably be HAPPY to help :)
<directhex> yeah, 100 is "talk to manufacturer" numbers
<directhex> since you're talking lots of money
<directhex> don't bother trying an etailer like expansys. they'll dick you.
<SuperMatt> is it possible to have multiple workspaces enabled, without having the button?
<TheOpenSourcerer> mungbean: If you are a company - you will probably need to talk to a distributor (a box shifter that supplies the likes of expansys et al).
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: which button?
<SuperMatt> on the launcher
<BigRedS> ah! forgot about that. I've no idea
<TheOpenSourcerer> CTL+ALT+Arrow Keys is what I use all the time. the whole launcher thing and stuff is just way too slow.
<SuperMatt> I know about the keys, but the button clutters my launcher. If I turn the button off though, I lose the ability to switch workspaces altogether
<TheOpenSourcerer> orly - I didn't realise that!
<SuperMatt> I think so
<SuperMatt> lemme test
<SuperMatt> yeah, these only a tick box for enable workspaces
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: The Design Team wants it to be like that
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Workspaces are of the devil!
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: like normal scroll bars, and menu bars
<Lil-|^Red> MartijnVdS: 'el diablo' ? I thought you were an Angel ?
<MartijnVdS> Lil-|^Red: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E28WrhpTzQA
<Lil-|^Red> ha ha ..
<Lil-|^Red> http://identi.ca/notice/100659276 !Linux 3.4.41 !Kernel has been released http://www.kernel.org/
<MartijnVdS> identi.ca still exists?!
<Lil-|^Red> no its pump.io now.
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: yeah I had hoped it would have died years ago
<Lil-|^Red> Yep. This does though ... https://diasp.eu/tags/ubuntu
<Myrtti> oh yeah, that's the other social media service nobody remembers unless someone mentions it
<Lil-|^Red> good posters /etc....
<Myrtti> that's what I call it atleast "the whassit, the service nobody remembers..."
<Lil-|^Red> .. mm .. how rude.
<Myrtti> no not really, I think it's a representative name for it atleast among my acquaintances
<Lil-|^Red> acquaintaines / association / bros .. why not just call them friends ?   https://launchpad.net/friends
<Myrtti> it's a bit like the game (which both you and I have now lost)
<Myrtti> I hate gwibber with a passion
<Lil-|^Red> what about W8 ?
<Myrtti> the fruit juice?
<Lil-|^Red> oh dear..
<Myrtti> yes, that.
<Lil-|^Red> Yeah .. I like to hate things .. just not when you try to 'change' people . that's narcistic .. like telling ppl what to eat etc..
<Lil-|^Red> I know this java guy who never wore shoes ..
<popey> Myrtti: i ended up not bothering to login to identi.ca and diaspora when people remind me they exist, because when I did, there was nothing there worth seeing
<popey> Myrtti: i guess how some facebookers see G+ ?
<Myrtti> popey: I suppose
<bigcalm> That's how I see Facebook
<popey> same here now â»
<Myrtti> but yeah, your experience matches with mine, apart from the fact that I rile myself up to be proper angry when I did have a look into identica
<Lil-|^Red> Everytime I mentioned I was going to the fridge he said .. If it's not full freshh cream and not pasteurised.. then I am not talking to you .. I left.
<Lil-|^Red> leaves.
<popey> it's me isn't it?
<popey> as soon as I say something he says /me leaves and quits
<popey> or am I being paranoid?
<marsilainen> if I install Apache on a system which is already running nginx, will this cause a problem? what I really mean is, will nginx continue to be responsible for port 80/443 and keep working?
<popey> marsilainen: apache will fail to start on install
<Myrtti> popey: I suppose it's possible, perhaps you should have a similar script to his to put random stuff on the channel? :-P
<popey> if nginx is up
<popey> but when you restart the system there's the possibility apache will start before nginx
<NET||abuse> hi folks.
<NET||abuse> was having a real pain in the butt with my drive boot setup. trying to configure the n40L to work with not /dev/sda as theboot disk
<NET||abuse> i set the bios to use sdc for now (i've not loaded the bios mod to get sde working) so i have 2x1TB disks in sda and sdb, and the os drive is sdc,
<NET||abuse> sda1 is flagg'ed boot, and i ran grub-install /dev/sdc successfully. but..
<DJones> Ooh, raring's friends update has brought twitter back
<NET||abuse> when i just boot it up,, i just get a blinking cursor.. no messages at all.
<mungbean> manlab \o/
<directhex> flagging boot doesn't do anything. it's a pointless holdover from CPM or somesuch
<marsilainen> popey: ok, thanks for the info
<marsilainen> I want to move from nginx -> Apache, but just figuring out the way that's going to cause the least downtime for my users
<popey> marsilainen: run them in parallel
<mgdm> hmm, most folk go the other way :) any reason for that?
<popey> with apache on port 8000 for testing for example
<popey> then flip the switch at a quiet time
<popey> and swap the ports over
<popey> (is what I'd do)
<marsilainen> popey: yeah, I think that's a good idea
<popey> thats what i did when i migrated from apache to lighttpd
<marsilainen> makes sense
<marsilainen> so I guess I'm ok to install Apache on the running ngnix server and then just configure it to use 8000
<popey> yes
<marsilainen> cool, thanks for the help
<popey> you'll get an error on install
<popey> because it will try to start
<marsilainen> sure, that's no problem
<popey> np
<marsilainen> on another note, I'm quite impressed by Linode
<marsilainen> getting quite a lot of power for the price
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<popey> http://blog.linode.com/2013/04/16/security-incident-update/
<marsilainen> seems better value than what I had on Bytemark
<marsilainen> yeah, that doesn't sound great...
<marsilainen> I knew that they had done a password reset, but wasn't aware of the full extent of the circumstances
 * MartijnVdS is on Bytemark's new platform now
<shauno> the linode issue makes me uneasy, because they said it was restricted to a single customer when they did the password reset.  we only got more details because the intruder started bragging
<Myrtti> what worries me is that a lot of people are probably leaving Linode, and they're apparently quite a nice, friendly company
<Myrtti> it's a shame being nice isn't enough to keep the data secure
<shauno> they are, but being upfront goes a whole long way in this business
<Myrtti> indeed
<shauno> $proverbial happens.  but keeping it to yourself isn't fantastic for customers
<Myrtti> oh man I wish my dye pot wouldn't stink so bad
<shauno> heh, I know the feeling.  fermenting anything has turned into a bad idea now that I've moved into a much smaller place
<Myrtti> red onion skins and alum doesn't have a sweet smell I can tell you that
<shauno> saurkraut has much the same problem.  I simply can't do it in this flat
 * popey pokes bigcalm 
<shauno> slightly more on-topic, anyone intimate with openstack?  I've moved from the livecd in a VM, to devstack in a VM.  but I'm running into two issues, probably related.  one is that kvm-ok tells me to load kvm_intel, but modprobe kvm_intel complains it doesn't exist.  the other is that VMs are being run with -no-kvm, which is turning my laptop into a spaceheater
<popey> does your laptop support VMX?
<popey> what CPU is it?
<shauno> it does, and I'm passing that to the VM too
<popey> oh, you're in a VM
<popey> does that even work?
<MartijnVdS> you can nest now
<shauno> in vmware, yes.  in vbox, no
<popey> neat
<MartijnVdS> in kvm, sometimes
<shauno> the VM is running in vmware, because I'm on a mac, and I've found installing multiple hypervisors makes for mysterious explosions
<shauno> but kvm-ok reports  INFO: /dev/kvm exists  (newline) KVM acceleration can be used
<shauno> but if I launch an instance, I'm seeing qemu-system-x86_64 with the -no-kvm option, and constantly at 99.something% cpu
<popey> well, it will
<popey> with -no-kvm
<popey> modinfo kvm-intel
<popey> does that show the module?
<shauno> my understanding is that if kvm-ok says I'm happy, I shouldn't have -no-kvm, vt-x should be used, and all will be happy
<popey> surely not if you specifically say -no-kvm
<shauno> it does, as /lib/modules/3.5.0-27-lowlatency/kernel/arch/x86/kvm/kvm-intel.ko
<popey> and cat /proc/cpuinfo shows the vmx flag?
<shauno> that's the question .. where's -no-kvm coming from
<shauno> yes, vme & vmx
<AlanBell> evening all
<popey> hello
<shauno> (not sure what the physical cpu is, it's a year-old mac)
 * AlanBell is in Wales
<shauno> por quoi?
<AlanBell> customer visit, just had yummy steak with them :)
<shauno> a personal irony, I consider myself travelled.  I've lived in england/scotland/ireland, the states, etc.  I've not spent so much as 2 seconds in Wales, unless the M6 grazes it
<shauno> quite annoyed that this is beating me.  I have to launch a small environment at work, a virtual lab comprising 4 physical servers.  and I'm having a terrible time trying to figure out if there's any linux-based stack that'd be preferable to vmware's
<shauno> I really don't want vmware because they want windows for anything more than basic interaction.  and while I really don't have a beef against windows, it tends to make me look stupid because I'm entirely unfamiliar with it
<mungbean> i use windows as vsphere os
<mungbean> nothing more
<shauno> that's what I'm trying to avoid.  because I need to script creation/snapshot/destruction.  and I honestly have no idea how you'd do that anymore
<mungbean> just started looking at openstack last week but there is no official ref guide
<mungbean> which means i resort to fora and blogs = bad
<shauno> yeah.  a big problem I've run into it is that it tends to assume you're overly familiar with Amazon's methodology
<shauno> so things are just described as "this here is parallel to that on AWS"
<shauno> which is probably very intuitive if you're trying to bring an AWS stack in-house.  but we're not allowed to touch amazon.  our projects must be born, live, and die in-house
<mungbean> yeah
<mungbean> which all sends the not mature yet message
<shauno> well, this build is for a lab, it doesn't need to be mature
<shauno> I just need (Real world)<-->(VM'd firewall)<-->(Appliance)<-->(physical switch).   where I need to be able to deploy new or snapshot versions of the firewall & appliance from a cozy web frontend
<mungbean> spacewalk /kvm?
<shauno> most my complication is that we need to be able to add dhcp server, dns server, smtp server between the appliance and the firewall, and I need something that will allow packet capture on the virtual networks (both sides of the appliance)
<shauno> basically just different environments the appliance could be deployed in, so we can replicate a basic version the customer and packet-capture our way to glory
<shauno> openstack+juju or openstack+chef/puppet is looking fantastic for being able to create random services on the internal network.  but I don't have hardware yet, and it's not playing well with my laptop :/
<shauno> recently had a customer who had a DNS server with a whitelist of what IPs it was allowed to outbound to.  that's the kinda crazy I need to be able to build on demand
<shauno>  grep -ri no-kvm .
<shauno> grep: memory exhausted
<shauno> never seen that before :)
<NET||abuse> upsetting.. i'm on GBit switch, only getting 170-200KB/s transfer with ssh/scp?
<NET||abuse> oh well, bedtime.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-19
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> Morning!
<MooDoo> hello all
<diplo>     function onHold($limit, $offset) {
<diplo>         $this->db->select('*')
<diplo>                 ->from($this->item_table)
<diplo>                 ->join($this->links_table, "{$this->item_table}.itemID = {$this->links_table}.itemID", 'LEFT')
<diplo>                 ->join($this->stock_table, "{$this->item_table}.IAK = {$this->stock_table}.stock_iak", 'LEFT')
<diplo>                 ->where(array("{$this->links_table}.itemID" => null));
<diplo> arse
<diplo> Sorry guys :D
<MooDoo> lol
<diplo> Putty + right click paste is good, but not when you do it by mistake
<diplo> :P
<MooDoo> been there done that lol
<BigRedS> I do wonder how much source code leakage is from people right-clicking on IRC windows
<diplo> heh
<diplo> First time for me, but probably a bit
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, and happy Primrose Day everyone! :-D
<MooDoo> lol
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: I just finished Mockingjay (Hunger Games 3/3).. how appropriate :)
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, It is?  Sorry, I'm not familiar with the Hunger Games series.
<JamesTait> I should really start reading more fiction again.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: you should :)
<JamesTait> I seem to have swapped Pratchett for various other forms of hocus pocus, magic incantations and sourcery.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: ah, you fell prey to (some of the) "doorstop" fantasy series?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I read a lot of Pratchett (and Eddings, and others) at Uni.  Don't seem to have (or more likely make) the time these days.
<feisar> morning all
<feisar> what's happening regarding Ubuntu's release cycle, is 13.04 the last release before rolling?
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Most people I know have started reading those 1000 page epic stories (like the Game of Thrones stuff, etc.).. but I can't stand that kind of "Fantasy" stories :)
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I also spent a lot of time at Uni playing and coding on MUDs, most of which were of that genre. ;) I'm not sure which came first, but they probably fed each other.
<BigRedS> feisar: I don't think rolling has been decided on, has it?
<MartijnVdS> I think they discussed it in a podcast
<MartijnVdS> so popey knows
<BigRedS> a podcast? How modern
<popey> hmm?
<BigRedS> Since I've stopped spending 4hrs a week on a motorway I've almost completely stopped listening to podcasts...
<feisar> oh right, I wasn't sure
<directhex> since i stopped taking the bus i stopped playing handheld games
<JamesTait> BigRedS, me too.
 * JamesTait spots a theme.
<popey> no, there will be 13.04, 13.10 and 14.04...
<BigRedS> I'd really like an idiot-proof device that I could give a bunch of podcast feeds to and have it play those whenever I turn it on, as a radio replacement
<BigRedS> but I can't quite be bothred to create one
<feisar> BigRedS: I wouldn't describe it as idiot proof exactly but Subsonic combined with a phone client would come pretty close to that
<BigRedS> Anything involving phones isn't idiot proof for me :) Mine's got a flat battery ~20% of the time
<feisar> sure, I was fortunate enough to get a Nexus 4 for Christmas so it works for me : )
<Myrtti> I think the "rolling release", AFAIK, will be for n+1 version
<Myrtti> ie. people who want to keep using the developmental version can do that with less hassle
<Myrtti> normal users see no difference
<feisar> Myrtti: that sounds good
<Myrtti> popey will probably stab me for this
<popey> I will?
<Myrtti> did I explain it wrong?
<Myrtti> I don't know if I even myself understood what I said
<popey> me either â»
<popey> ask Laney
<Laney> WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTT
<popey> that whole conversation was a disaster
<Laney> i've been busy watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbIOD_elAgo
<popey> that's excellent
<Laney> What I understand came out of that discussion is that the non-LTS releases will be supported for less time than before (9 months IIRC), and that there will be a way for people to always stay on the dev. release.
<Laney> So imagine a symlink raring â development-release that you can put in your sources.list, which then upgrades you to swanky sloth next week.
<directhex> more people running +1? sounds like a recipe for unbotability
<Laney> Not sure it'll result in more people running it
<mungbean> 9 month support is from release date, right?
<BigRedS> botability?
<Laney> right
<directhex> bootability
<directhex> typing from bed is hard
<Laney> I don't remember what the precise number of months is
<BigRedS> I'd probably tend towards a rolling release dev one if it was likely to end up repeatedly fixed
<mungbean> hence, in 5 months, who's gonna install 13.04?
<BigRedS> like Debian testing
<feisar> and is there a set period between LTS?
<MartijnVdS> 2 years
<MartijnVdS> I guess
<mungbean> with 9 mth support, you only get people installing within first couple of months.
<mungbean> it will get messy
<mungbean> but hopefully it will mean better support for LTS users?
<feisar> I'm feeling that makes LTS really the only way to go for me then
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's like that already
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: people don't install 13.04 when 13.10 comes out, do they? Either LTS or latest..
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: but why install at 2 months away from 13.10
<mungbean> u only have 5 months left of support
<MartijnVdS> lts ;)
<MartijnVdS> or you install 13.04 and upgrade as soon as 13.10 comes out
<mungbean> LTS
<MartijnVdS> LTS still gets several years of support, I guess?
<mungbean> 5 i think
<mungbean> but "support"
<MartijnVdS> security updates + hardware enablement, I guess
<mungbean> lots of bugs on LTS don't get backported to LTS
<MooDoo> it's a shame you can't go from LTS to latest using upgrade-manafer
<BigRedS> MooDoo: hah, yeah, some of our Ubuntu machines became centos 'cause of a bug opened in 2010...
<MooDoo> nothing wrong with centos :D
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: because they don't have bugs
<BigRedS> Nah, it's way less atrocious than it was last time we used it
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I like centos, then again it's just rhel isn't it really
<Myrtti> I care about this way too much for a person who doesn't even use Ubuntu anymore
<MooDoo> Myrtti: what you using now?
<BigRedS> I think we're essentialyl replacing Ubuntu with CentOS as our "enterprisey long-term stability" suggested distro
<Myrtti> the point of the 9 month support is with the mobile devices
<MooDoo> BigRedS: sounds good :D
<Myrtti> Desktop users are strongly encouraged to use LTS's
<Myrtti> MooDoo: Debian
<BigRedS> MooDoo: yeah, we end up then with Debian and CentOS, so all our software is from the late '90s
<MooDoo> Myrtti: then yes you care to much, but that's a good thing :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> 10:33:31 < mungbean> lots of bugs on LTS don't get backported to LTS
<popey> such as?
<bigcalm> Somebody at VM doesn't like me http://www.speedtest.net/result/2655699819.png
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: awww
<popey> ouch
<bigcalm> Yeah
 * bigcalm reboots the modem
<MartijnVdS> upload more ;)
<popey> interesting, mine is down to 20Mb/s
<popey> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2655701704.png
<ahayzen> Wheatley campus :) http://www.speedtest.net/result/2655702833.png
<bigcalm> Rebooted the modem and now I can't even start a speed test
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: irc works though
<bigcalm> FWP?
<MartijnVdS> [  3]  0.0-20.0 sec   222 MBytes  92.8 Mbits/sec
<MartijnVdS> hmm iperf :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: indeed, and I was able to connect to speedtest.net. But their test isn't actually going anywhere for me
<bigcalm> That's better http://www.speedtest.net/result/2655707306.png
<bigcalm> I dislike rebooting things to fix them though
<MartijnVdS> yeah it feels wrong
<NET||abuse> hi guys.
<MartijnVdS> \o NET||abuse
<NET||abuse> so got the microserver up and running, and was looking to see how it performs, did an scp transfer on hte local network from my laptop, was in around the 200KB/s which is pooor
<NET||abuse> was over hardwaire on a netgear 1Gbit switch
<ahayzen> Speed on Wheatley LAN ... http://speedtest.net/result/2655711450.png ... I win :)
<NET||abuse> hardwaire?? heh, funny word.. over thernet.
<NET||abuse> ethernet... arrg.g. thats' what happens when you go to sleep at 4am and getup for work the next day
<Myrtti> if it's a relatively low end microserver, the ssh encryption can add noticeable amounts of overhead
<bigcalm> 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: ip -s link
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: anything in the error columns?
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: ethtool eth0 -> did autonegotiation work properly (is the cable known-good? try another cable anyway!)
<NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: ooh, that's funky,, never used that before.. i'll have to run the transfer tonight after work and monitor that.
<NET||abuse> autonegotation?
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: and what Myrtti said.. encryption = lots of CPU cycles.. try "scp -c arcfour" for a CPU-friendlier (but maybe not as safe) cipher
<NET||abuse> oh between the switch and machines.
<bigcalm> Cat attack
<NET||abuse> yeh, i was thinking the cpu limit might be a factor. i was just going to use something like an nfs share or even a http wget to see how they perform on the same link
<NET||abuse> i'll run some more tests tonight and see how they perform.
<NET||abuse> the n40L has a decent processor though.
<Myrtti> the speed difference with NFS vs. sftp/sshfs was noticeable even on my 10mbit home lan few years ago, when I had a Dell minitower from about 2004 as a server
<NET||abuse> yeh, well i'll definately be curious to see my results tonight
<Myrtti> if the network is secure and on ethernet, there's no reason for using ssh
<NET||abuse> reports from the internets of other n40L owners say they see transfer speeds of 125MB/sec on gigabit ethernet in their tests
<NET||abuse> yeh, it's my home network so of course,, but scp was the easiest to try first
<NET||abuse> setup of nfs is something i always seem to get a headache over
<Myrtti> I don't even try nfs nowadays
<NET||abuse> even though it should really be the simplest.. non encrypted stuff.
<Myrtti> it was easier than samba in 2007, but things have changed
<NET||abuse> oh, what's your transport of choice for a trusted link?
<BigRedS> Myrtti: what's changed? It's still easier than samba! :)
<Myrtti> BigRedS: not sure if there was some issues with nfs integration to nautilus/thunar that made me switch, it's been a good few months
<NET||abuse> hehe, i think there's a weird fog of misticism around nfs for some people (like me)
<NET||abuse> it's probably much muhc simpler in practice than i think it is.
<popey> [  4]  0.0-10.1 sec  61.1 MBytes  50.8 Mbits/sec
<popey> between my desktop and microserver
<NET||abuse> popey: aww, what transport?
<popey> but that's over powerline
<NET||abuse> powerline?? hahah, you got those pogo plugs?
<popey> that's iperf
<popey> yes
<NET||abuse> awsoem..
<Darael> AV2OO?
<popey> yes
<popey> devolo
<NET||abuse> i used them in an apartment about 5 years ago... then after a few weeks realized my neighbours were stealing my internet through their own plug
<popey> with encryption
<popey> my neighbours can't do that â»
<bigcalm> NET||abuse: from my N40L to my workstation: 68MB  22.6MB/s. That's a kernel file, possibly not big enough to really test via scp
<NET||abuse> dodgy apartments with cheeply wired electrics back in Dublin :)
<Myrtti> we've got powerline to connect upstairs with downstairs
<NET||abuse> bigcalm: is that using scp?
<BigRedS> Myrtti: ah, I've never tried to do it in nautilus. And, actually, I've not done it for a good few months either
<bigcalm> NET||abuse: yes
<BigRedS> All that sort of thing that I do now is temporary enough that I just use sshfs
<NET||abuse> damn, so i've got something really crappy going on with my network maybe.
<popey> NET||abuse: no, you can encrypt the data so people can't steal your internets
<NET||abuse> :) i was using some pretty cheepy plugs
<BigRedS> NET||abuse: nah, that's pretty standardly-wired electircs
<Myrtti> what's the current Viglen MPC-L/microserver choice of the channel?
<BigRedS> mains electricity wasn't really designed for secure signal handling :)
<popey> heh
<Myrtti> the HP microserver thing?
<Myrtti> RasPi?
<bigcalm> Myrtti: HP N40L (microserver) or similar
<BigRedS> it's really comon for baby monitors to conflict between neighbors, for example
<popey> depends on use case
<popey> N50 now
<NET||abuse> N50.. oooh,, need to lookup the specs
<bigcalm> I don't see a need to replacing the n40 I have any time soon :)
<popey> sorry, n54
<NET||abuse> N54L
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/430446-proliant-microserver-turion-2-2-2gb-250gb-nhpl-sata-lff-in-704941-421
<Myrtti> I feel uneasy with D having RoR stuff and apache and god knows what on his laptop and I've told him he could use my Viglen as a server, but he doesn't want to mess with my box
<popey> ~200 with cashback
<NET||abuse> yeh, don't see a big up on the spec.
<funkyHat> I got my first MicroServer for ~Â£120 after cashback â¢(
 * BigRedS feels sorry for anybody who has RoR stuff
<NET||abuse> yeh i got my n40L  for Â£80 after/cashbackjust before christmas
<bigcalm> This is the company I got my n40L from with 100 quid cashback: http://www.serversplus.com/servers/tower_servers/hp_tower_servers/704941-421
<SuperMatt> BigRedS: I was "investigating" RoR yesterday
<SuperMatt> which mainly meant banging my head on the table
<bigcalm> Though the cashback is directly with HP
<NET||abuse> of course another 40 on ram upgrade and 120 worth of hard drives in it :)
<SuperMatt> I've come to the conclusion that RoR has been designed for developers to get something running quickly, but if you're an sysadmin, you've got to work real hard to get stuff working well
<SuperMatt> there's also ZERO documentation about successful RoR administration
<bigcalm> You'll want to up the RAM and add more storage. That's where the price bumps up a bit
<NET||abuse> so if getting 200Kb/s on a  transfer of 400 MB file over gigabit ethernet,, even using scp, the n40L should be capable of much faster than that anyway? so i've got a network issue
<bigcalm> popey: did somebody say that these microservers can actually take up to 16gb ram?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> someone did yeah
<funkyHat> And there I was thinking I'd maxed mine out...
<popey> http://n40l.wikia.com/wiki/Memory
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> 8gb ecc is working well enough for me for now. Especially as work bought the ram :)
<Myrtti> then again D also has a san box waiting to be filled with hard drives
<popey> alan@homeserver:~$ sudo btrfs filesystem df /srv
<popey> Data, RAID1: total=8.14TB, used=6.20TB
<popey> zoiks
<popey> I should clear up a bit
<funkyHat> wat. Did not know there are 4TB drives available now
<NET||abuse> yeh, i got the same as you bigcalm
<NET||abuse> 8GB ecc.. have you done the modified bios replacement?
<NET||abuse> i have a pop out drive bay in the top of it but i've not got it working yet as the sata interface isn't making itself available even when i set ahci mode on the bios
<davmor2> Morning all
<jussi> heya all. Can someone here tell me how to get to milton keynes from gatwick via public transport?  :D
<jussi> morning davmor2 :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> jussi train?
<SuperMatt> jussi: what station would you normally pull in to if you went to london?
<popey> jussi: http://nationalrail.co.uk
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gatwick to Victori or London Bridge (I guess)
<jussi> SuperMatt: No idea :D
<Laney> www.transportdirect.info
<funkyHat> gatwick express to Liverpool Street(?), Northern line to Euston, London Midland or Virgin train to Milton Keynes
<popey> http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/GTW/MKC/today/1130/dep
<davmor2> jussi: tube to London, from there to Euston, Euston to milton Keynes on one of the many trains
<Laney> hahaha
<popey> tube?
<popey> no
<Laney> I love the guessing
<shauno> if coach is an option too, national express do gatwick-milton keynes often enough
<SuperMatt> hurm
<Seeker`> Jetpack to London, hovercraft across the thames, then unicycle to MK?
<SuperMatt> euston isn't so good for tubes to gatwick
<TheOpenSourcerer> But how come nobody has asked the really important question? ...
<TheOpenSourcerer> WHY Milton Keynes?
<SuperMatt> could do euston -> kings x -> gatwick
<popey> heh, i was thinking that
<popey> and also wondering who would ask it first
<popey> well done
<popey> Data, RAID1: total=8.14TB, used=6.08TB
<popey> better
<Myrtti> rockets.
<SuperMatt> oh wait...
<SuperMatt> gatwick, not heathrow >.<
<SuperMatt> in which case
<SuperMatt> euston -> tube to vicroria -> gatwick express
<TheOpenSourcerer> I see there is a one change service via Clapham... A bit slower but cheaper
<SuperMatt> indeddc
<shauno> just take a coach and avoid going through london in the first place
<SuperMatt> but if you're not too confident, I would take the express
<funkyHat> Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
<funkyHat> Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.
<funkyHat> C:\Windows\system32>set vmrunguestlinux="C:\Program Files (x86)\VMware\VMware Se
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: a potential client :D
<funkyHat> rver\vmrun" -T server -h https://127.0.0.1:8333/sdk -u vmcopy -p Wa11street  -gu qa002o -gp Wa11street
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - sit on the M25 instead ;-)
<funkyHat> C:\Windows\system32>set vmrunhost="C:\Program Files (x86)\VMware\VMware Server\v
<funkyHat> mrun" -T server -h https://127.0.0.1:8333/sdk -u vmcopy -p Wa11street
<Myrtti> funkyHat: tsk.
<funkyHat> C:\Windows\system32>%vmrunguestlinux% register "[D] copy_to_esx/R505_QA_REGION_2
<SuperMatt> combo breaker
<funkyHat> 013-04-17/qa002.vmx"
<SuperMatt> phew
<funkyHat> Amazing. Sorry everyone
<funkyHat> paste fail with passwords and everything!
 * diplo did it earlier :) not as badly as you though
<diplo> :P
<NET||abuse> that was some epic password leakage there ... :P
<NET||abuse> why are you running a linux guest on a windows host.. ughghhg
 * NET||abuse shivers in disgust
<MooDoo> change your passwords too as this channel is logged remember
<NET||abuse> yeh, you're login will be googlable
<NET||abuse> i have a stack of 11 different switches i'm going to take home with me and do transfer speed tests with my microsever tonight, i have a feeling i have a few netgear switches which have faults
<NET||abuse> ultimately a better dsl router would be nice too though,, i have sky's crappy dsl netgear wifi router
<NET||abuse> i get about 12Mbit download and 1Mbit up
<NET||abuse> not hte worst in the universe but i've seen much much better
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh I am starving! Wonder what lunch will be today?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: ham sandwich with mustard and a cold pint ;)
<shauno> a car door?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I will be drinking this evening and try and avoid lunchtimes unless I have no work in the afternoon. Nice idea on the sarny front though. But fancy something hot.
<TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: Thanks.
<TheOpenSourcerer> My face is now almost back to normal.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone want to see this morning's picture?
<shauno> good to hear :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> The chippy is rather appealing right now...
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: we'll see your picture on google+ i'm sure
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm planning on doing a 7 day montage tomorrow :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> So the question is: Saveloy, Battered Sausage, Pie, Fish, Fish Cake, Burger... What to accompany chips & curry sauce?
<brobostigon> pie, battered sausage, chips and curry sauce. :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pie AND Battered Sausage - that's a bit hardcore for me I think.
 * brobostigon is hungry, so maybe is biased.
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: welcome to my incredibly active twitter stream :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<SuperMatt> man, I had my chips on wednesday, I'm way ahead of the curve
<jussi> so Im going to wales next week... this should be fun :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> jussi: Alan Bell is Wales today
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right am now definitely going for some scran. BBL
<jussi> laters :D
<davmor2> jussi: is that up to 1 tweet a year now :D
<NET||abuse> mmm, friday,, today is my chpper day,, although.. i should be healthy
<NET||abuse> i got an interval times on amazon on wednesday cause i'm gonna be so good and start getting fit again.
<NET||abuse> yeh, so gonna get chips
<NET||abuse> interval times? interval timer..
<NET||abuse> arrrg.. 3.5 hours sleep is not enough
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> davmor2: nah, maybe one every 2 years :D
<NET||abuse> just to let teh internet, you're still alive
<jussi> davmor2: I find twitter a bit too public tbh
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: if you actually want to see something from me, follow/circle me on g+
<NET||abuse> yeh, and kind of fruitless.. g+ is better for sources of links/ideas i find
<jussi> but I warn you, it will include baby pictures :P
<davmor2> jussi: your not getting this internet thing are you, only pictures of cats are allowed on the t'interwebz ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Saveloy, Chips, Curry sauce, followed by some Tangfastics. What a lunch.
<brobostigon> :)
<jussi> davmor2: are you calling my kid a cat? :P
<MartijnVdS> jussi: depends.. are you a furry?
<davmor2> jussi: No I'm saying your doing it wrong :P
<jussi> hahahaaha
<funkyHat> NET||abuse: I don't have much say in what runs on our VM hosts. The IT guys internally use ESX a lot and I think they are starting to use some KVM, but we are stuck with VMware Server and VBox if we want to run our own virtualisation
<NET||abuse> your dev box should be linux anyway!!:{
<funkyHat> NET||abuse: that's not an option at the moment, and that wasn't a paste from my dev box anyway
<NET||abuse> raawwwrrr... stating uncompromising point of view... not interested in argument, closed minded approach to life... and calm.. :P
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: you know admins ;)
<Myrtti> you know company policies
<MartijnVdS> sysadmins, that is
<NET||abuse> :)
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: IT dept. policies*
<NET||abuse> <moredogma>linux should be on every system, windows has no place in enterprise, too young, too volatile, was a flash in the pan anyway, </moredogma>
<NET||abuse> i'm enjoying being facetious today :
<Laney> yay my beers from brewdog have shipped
<shauno> our IT guys are actually pretty good for that kinda thing.  we're allowed to run whatever the hell we want, on the agreement that they'll kick us off the network if we don't put our toys away when we're done with them
<shauno> which has happened :/  we have one box that takes great delight into searching the network for a certain class of devices, attempts to login to them with default credentials, and then sets them to its own config if successful
<shauno> plug that into the wrong network and we become very unpopular :(
<MartijnVdS> hahaha :)
<jussi> argh, USB creator I KILL YOU!
<Seeker`> jussi: I think there is a queue for that
<MartijnVdS> yeah buddy, get in line</Manhattan accent>
<jussi> made a live usb, when I boot it drops to some sort of prompt with "boot:"
<jussi> message is: ERROR: No configuration file found!
<jussi> No DEFAULT or UI configuration directive found!
<jussi> sigh...
<MartijnVdS> jussi: it can't find the boot device
<MartijnVdS> might be your BIOS being a PoS
<jussi> MartijnVdS: hrm, thats annoying...
<jussi> lemme have a look, thanks for the tip
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - it's all going off in Boston. Just told the whole of Boston to stay indoors
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I've been listening all morning.. it's been getting worse and worse
<mungbean> USians have a tendency to over react a tad tho
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: well ANYONE could be armed!
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: better to overreact in that case..
<mungbean> yeah lets shutdown all public transport
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: he can't get away using a train that way..
<jussi> hahah
<jussi> hrrr, someone locked this bios... gonna have to call the company tech people to try find out the password... aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhh
<MartijnVdS> jussi: you could just paperclip the BIOS jumper :)
<jussi> MartijnVdS: that would actually assume a few things... 1. I know where that jumper is, and 2. I am unlazy enough to open this laptop up... :P
<Myrtti> hm, I wonder did I leave the BIOS password in
<davmor2> jussi: you forgot the important one. 3. had a paperclip
<mungbean> i have 4 on my desk
<davmor2> mungbean: yeah only jussi is on a train in a country that isn't his own, that makes it slightly less likely that he would have one handy :)
<MartijnVdS> which country is that?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: he is in the England
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: old or new?
<MartijnVdS> ah wait.. THE
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I was think in the uk but then put England
<funkyHat> THE England
<czajkowski> popey: Laney http://24.media.tumblr.com/6986166623219890aecb766874bcdd14/tumblr_mldjvvNI0Z1r6uouqo1_500.gif
<popey> â»
<Laney> aww
<czajkowski> only thing making it better of course would be a pug
<czajkowski> Laney: this is awww worthy :) https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7081521152/h91EB9AB2/
<Laney> my god
<Laney> remind me never to buy one of those
<czajkowski> Laney: a pug?
<NET||abuse> wow, so my main disk is partitioned in an lvm , but lvm2 wasn't actually installed on the base os install..
<NET||abuse> oh, no, seems when i re-installed it didn't use lvm... oops
<NET||abuse> hmm, apt-get'ing lvm2 broke
<NET||abuse> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-3.5.0-27-generic                cp: reading `/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6': Input/output error         cp: failed to extend `/tmp/mkinitramfs_gjPIas//lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6': Input/output error
<NET||abuse>   /sbin/ldconfig.real: file /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 is truncated
<NET||abuse> Bus Error    E: mkinitramfs failure cpio 135 gzip 0
<NET||abuse> does it matter it's running ? :P
<NET||abuse> hmm, bugger,, seem just update initramfs-tools craps out, odd..
<NET||abuse> alright, will try rebooting
<NET||abuse> exit
<popey> that looks unwell
<popey> bet it doesnt come back from a reboot
<^aDaM-iPhone> i hate that had it happen to me when GRUB went on me :(
 * davmor2 keeps getting llvm and lvm confused :)
<kvarley> I can't remember where I heard it or saw it, I think it might have been in the industry proposition for Ubuntu for Phones. They showed Excel or another office program running on the Ubuntu desktop as an app streamed from a windows server. Does anybody know what this is called?
<popey> Ubuntu for Android has this
<popey> it's just remote desktop integrated into ubuntu
<popey> so you get an Excel icon in the launcher
<kvarley> popey: What is it called?
<popey> which bit?
<kvarley> Like you say, it made the apps have shortcuts and they were streamed from a server
<kvarley> Both the server streaming part and the client part
<ali1234> it's called RDP
<popey> its called remote desktop
<popey> RDP is the protocol..
<kvarley> Is it Microsoft RDP, Citrix ICA or VMWare View?
<popey> all of them
<kvarley> Ok :)
<popey> it can connect to any of those
<kvarley> Is there a guide anywhere on how to set this up on desktop Ubuntu?
<popey> !info remmina
<lubotu3> remmina (source: remmina): remote desktop client for GNOME desktop environment. In component main, is optional. Version 1.0.0-1ubuntu8 (quantal), package size 130 kB, installed size 360 kB
<kvarley> popey: But how would the icons work?
<ali1234> the same way they do with anything else
<ali1234> you pin them and they stay on the launcher
<popey> yeah, its just an app
<kvarley> popey: The thing I saw showed only excel, no other OS running in the background. It just looked like it was running as a native app but it was actually streamed
<ali1234> whether or not this actually works is down to unity
<popey> you can do that too
<popey> there's multiple options
<popey> logout and scroll down
<popey> there's a remote login option down there, lets you connect to things like this
<ali1234> kvarley: multiwindow is part of RDP
<ali1234> however it is only enabled on windows server
<kvarley> ali1234: Ah ok thanks
<kvarley> popey: thanks, as usual you've solved my problem/question :)
<ali1234> you can't do it on a consumer version of windows unless you buy citrix
<kvarley> This is a brilliant feature, has massive potential
<kvarley> ali1234: It's research for a potential business overhaul from windows to Ubuntu \0/
<ali1234> you won't be able to get rid of windows
<ali1234> you'll still need all the licenses for windows server and office
<ali1234> if you use rdp
<ali1234> plus everyone will be trying to run office on the same computer which will be incredibly slow
<kvarley> Can I get to the login screen on a livecd ?
<davmor2> kvarley: lets start at the beginning, First you need a Windows server.  Then you need to install Office onto and make it available via rdp, citrix, vmware. Then you can start looking at add the rdp served app to Ubuntu.  But for an app you can do that by using remina, the login option is more to run an entire windows session via rdp etc rather than an app
<kvarley> davmor2: Thanks for the extra detail. I'm intending to build a test environment, if it works then it'll be onto getting it into workplaces
<davmor2> kvarley: https://help.ubuntu.com/12.10/ubuntu-help/sharing-remote-login.html
<kvarley> Thanks davmor2
<davmor2> kvarley: and http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/09/ubuntu-12-10-login-screen-adds-remote-desktop-access
<mungbean> how can i stop update manager appearing?
<zleap> ok i am using lubuntu but afaik it uses the same bit of software
<zleap> got to settings and you can set when it checks for updates
<^aDaM-iPhone> lo all :)
<NET||abuse> yay, continue my N40L server drama.. so the disk i installed the os on.. i think it's in trouble.. every time i try to run vim or nano or something i get kernel messages saying "exception Emask 0x0 .... etc ...   failed command: READ DMA"
<NET||abuse> i imagine my disk is scuppered
<mungbean> zleap: thanks byt doesnt work. i have edited update-notifier.desktop instead to be vusuble in startup progs
<NET||abuse> i've rebooted a few times. and getting the same issue
<mungbean> then disabled from there
<NET||abuse> i was just trying to update the /etc/networks file to add dns-server as i forgot to add one :)
<NET||abuse> but i can't run any text editors
<NET||abuse> other commands seem to run ok,
<mungbean> dmesg ?
<popey> NET||abuse: try a different cable
<popey> you can get those errors with a duff cable - I know i have
<NET||abuse> it's in one ofthe drive bays, not a sperate cable.
<NET||abuse> i've not got the top bay working yet.
<NET||abuse> so it's in slot 1 in the 4 disk bay
<NET||abuse> shutdown now and have an inspection of the bay, but i don't think that'll be it.
<NET||abuse> i'll be having to run spinrite or something now
<zleap> mungbean, ok np
<brobostigon> tonights new HIGNFY should be good, warwick davis presenting,
<NET||abuse> right, re-seated connections
<NET||abuse> nope, still broken. and it's really specific.. just running vim will trigger the exact evrror every time.
<NET||abuse> ragghghgh,, why won't the technology just bloody work!!
<NET||abuse> old disks, my own fault.
<NET||abuse> right, need usb stick and time to re-install AGAIN!!!! arrrg
<NET||abuse> have another 250GB disk i can use.
<SuperMatt> hurm, just put xfce on my latop, and find it rather pleasant
<mungbean> still on elementary here
<SuperMatt> ooh, now there's a thought
<SuperMatt> stable or daily?
<SuperMatt> looks like I'm gonna need daily for raring
<mungbean> y u need raring?
<mungbean> best use 1204+elentary ppa
<mungbean> or daily
<SuperMatt> because I already have raring installed ;)
<NET||abuse> hmm, using the ubuntu-server image, from usb stickit took like 3 hours to install. why is that?
<NET||abuse> if i disconnected the network it failed the install altogether. i don't want to pull down stuff from th enet if it's already on the usb stick, i can do updates later.
<brobostigon> now that was one good HIGNFY ep, :)
<popey> NET||abuse: 3 hours?
<popey> do you mean 23 minutes?
<NET||abuse> nope, yesterday and day before, i made usb stick with unetbootin, selecting the 12-10 server iso,, it seemed to boot the installer, yet wanted to retrieve all packages like it were a net installer
<NET||abuse> used usb creator this time, seems to be quicker
<NET||abuse> retreiving 69 files at the mo.. but seems like it's not net-installing this time.
<NET||abuse> yeh, that was the problem, it was in net-installer mode last time.. doh :( silly me.
<Laney> grr
<popey> grr?
<Laney> how can samsung get away with force installing "knowhow movies" on my tv, and making it uninstallable
<Laney> ununinstallable?
<popey> like google, apple, microsoft do on tablets?
<Laney> dunno, never experienced anything like this
<Laney> "Smart hub needs to update to continue"
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/217v1LMlA81PC4n34ZtvtG
<popey> *stab*
<popey> _hate_ that dialog
<Laney> then BBC iPlayer has gone away and in its place is KNOWHOW Movies
<Laney> hateful
 * popey breaks out xkill
<ali1234> this is when RMS points and laughs at you for buying hardware with proprietary firmware
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-20
<simi> hey someone pop up
<popey> morning
 * mungbean_ has tidied the kitchen before 9.30am on a saturday and wioped out already
<MartijnVdS> mungbean_: time to call a doctor? ;)
<popey> heh
 * popey also just tidied the kitchen
<popey> going to get the bbq out today
<mungbean_> my life is such that when i get home from work, i put elder sprog to bed, eat food then get the baby at 7.30 while mrs goes to bed early, to cope with the 4am wakes
<mungbean_> hence from mon-fri every waking hour is spent working or holding baby
<mungbean_> went 4 days without a shower last week, there was nothing else i could do. although i realised we have showers at work
<mungbean> gonna do some "snipping" in the garden with sprog the elder this morning, after he's played on the tablet forhis saturday treat
<mungbean> popey: first bbq time since last autumn?
<mungbean> lots of spider poo/webs inside?
<mungbean> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57580376-92/cheap-intel-devices-will-run-google-microsoft-oses-sources-say/
<mungbean> intel trying to run android/chrome...ewww
<popey> yes
<popey> STOP!
<popey> Showertime!
<mungbean> after snipping
<mungbean> shaun the sheep is a most excellent programme
<mungbean> bought this airfix kit to go with it http://www.airfix.com/_assets/files/A50018%20Shaun%20Land%20Rover%20Kit.pdf
<BrianTheDog> hello everyone
<mungbean> woof
<BrianTheDog> i have a laptop with a wireless connection, ubuntu 10.4 lts doed not reconize the wireless adapter
<mungbean> which wifi card is it
<BrianTheDog> dunno
<mungbean> lspci command should tell you
<BrianTheDog> it would help if I had the laptop with me :P silly me
<mungbean> which laptop model?
<BrianTheDog> well the adapter came from an Acer Aspire 5100
<mungbean> usually in 10.04 my similar issues are solved by installing firmware-linux-nonfree package
<mungbean> lol i grew up reading all the terrance dickd dr who books my library could offer http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doctor-Who-Angels-Mystery-ebook/dp/B009KJ6DTO/ref=pd_cp_kinc_2
<popey> everyone must be outside â»
<popey> (like me)
<DJones> Nah, some of us are inside watching the Rugby, outdoor tv's are useless due to the sun blocking out most of the screen
<mgdm> sadly we had the good weather yesterday
<mgdm> happily, I was on holiday and spent it sailing \o/
<DJones> LUcky you
<DJones> Its beautiful here, blue skys etc, 1.5 mile dog walk, a few miles on the bike, now sat watching the rugby while my bread rises ready to cook
<Myrtti> I don't know what kind of alien mosquitos you people have in here but I've never gotten anything this big from Finnish ones
<DJones> Probably a horsefly, they're buggers
 * brobostigon contemplates beer.
<DJones> Thankfully we don't have mosquitos here, on our honeymoon, my wife ended up with about 100 bites and had to call the doctor out in Mexico
<Myrtti> it didn't sound like a horsefly
<Myrtti> I've got one red thing that was the size of a golf ball and one a bit smaller on my thing, and I didn't even notice them biting
<Myrtti> resorted into taking a pill of levocetirizin I had
<DJones> Doesn't sound good, hopefully antihistamine cream/antiseptic is dealing with it
<MartijnVdS> Fresh Win7 install "I need to install 142 updates!"
<MartijnVdS> Good thing it's on SSD 8-)
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: you need a running tally and a stopwatch to keep track of how many reboots you need
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: During installation of Windows: 2
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: It's still installing updates.. no further reboots needed yet
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: 3...
<brobostigon> ouch
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: well, Ubuntu requires 2 (one from installer to live system, one to boot the security-updated kernel)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's only slightly worse :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: very true, :)
<MartijnVdS> 4!
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<MartijnVdS> but it wasn't finished with 3 yet
<brobostigon> lol
<MartijnVdS> and now it's complaining that it rebooted in the middle of that update 8-)
<MartijnVdS> Go go MS go!
<brobostigon> lol, again.
<MartijnVdS> Install antivirus: 5
<brobostigon> Loooolllll
<Myrtti> told you you need to keep track of the reboots
<brobostigon> making up words now. :)
<Myrtti> it makes it more fun
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: 8-)
<brobostigon> new dr who, 18:45 bbc1, :)
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<Laney> meow
<popey> Laney: that cat video has gone "viral"
<MartijnVdS> the licking one?
<MartijnVdS> vacuum
<popey> ya
<popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/ripples/details?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DtbIOD_elAgo&context=z12dyxy4nlqhvvrqt04cdtvxtlmwcnbyblk0k
<MartijnVdS> 6 (SP1)
<MartijnVdS> 7 (still SP1)
<MartijnVdS> 8 (post SP1 security updates)
<MartijnVdS> this is getting silly
<Laney> popey: you trend setter
<Laney> when i looked it had 700 views :O
<popey> hah
<dwatkins> that cat is superb
<brobostigon> 12 minute warning everyone,
<SuperMatt> until..?
<SuperMatt> oh, doctor who
<SuperMatt> it was at 6 last week, weird
<SuperMatt> and 6.15 every week before that
<SuperMatt> I though I'd missed it
<MartijnVdS> omg.. geography joke @ Doctor 8-)
<SuperMatt> I'm loving this new series
<MartijnVdS> as am I :)
<SuperMatt> Matt Smith's doctor has taken a turn
<czajkowski> AlanBell: http://hackntalkjune.eventbrite.com/
<MartijnVdS> Today's episode is properly scary
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: hush up
<czajkowski> people may not be watching it live
<czajkowski> and they'll be upset if they read here
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: true
<SuperMatt> signed up!
<czajkowski> xnox: jelmer loads of time to get a talk prepared :)
<xnox> czajkowski: I wonder what should I demo =)
<xnox> czajkowski: or talk about....
 * xnox ponders something about Debian
<MartijnVdS> xnox: !ask ;)
<xnox> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<czajkowski> xnox: anyting you fancy
<czajkowski> I dont promote it as an ubuntu event so it was nice to see lots of diversity
<SuperMatt> oh gawd, I'nm in stitches
<NET||abuse> hi guys, trying to sort out lvm by hand.
<NET||abuse> main disk is os, and i have the other 2 1TB disks which i want to use as a single mirror'd volume.
<NET||abuse> but setting this up is a little confusing.
<NET||abuse> so if i initialise /dev/sdb and /dev/sdc with pvcreate. then i lvcreate Data1 /dev/sdb /dev/sdc   now they're all in the same logical volume.. but i should have made them mirrored at this point?
<mungbean> http://www.tcpdump.com/kb/os/linux/lvm-mirroring/creating-mirror.html
<mungbean> yep get up to much
<dogmatic69> What is a good way to duplicate a folder over to another server.
<dogmatic69> I am moving from one to another and its a lot, maybe 15GB of php sites
<brobostigon> scp, rsync ?
<dogmatic69> ye, I think rsync is probably the way
<brobostigon> :)
<dogmatic69> ta
<brobostigon> :)
<dogmatic69> are ssh tunnels one way or two way
<dogmatic69> not related to initial question in any way
<ali1234> yes
<dogmatic69> ali1234: yes?
<ali1234> yes, they are one way or two way
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> default is one way I guess?
<ali1234> technically they are left (-L) or right (-R)
<ali1234> you can also set up a socks proxy over ssh, which is both but requires the application can talk socks
<popey> heh, never thought of them as left or right
<popey> but Local or Remote
<ali1234> i guess that's valid
<ali1234> -L -> listening port is local, packets come out the remote
<ali1234> -R -> listening port is on the remote, packets come out locally
<ali1234> you can also use -w for a two way tunnel using tun device (ie it works like a network card)
<ali1234> that may also work with tap devices, not sure
<ali1234> can you edit tweets?
<ali1234> or only delete them?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-21
<alexcockell> Morning all..
<SuperMatt> good morning
<SuperMatt> it's bbq day today
<SuperMatt> but before I get started on that, I'm writing some django
<MartijnVdS> django = fun
<SuperMatt> well, I'm doing some auth stuff, but I didn't find it very intuative
<SuperMatt> though now I've got it in place, it does look quite good
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: the tutorial and docs helped me a lot though
<MartijnVdS> they're not "my first program" level, which I think is a big plus :)
<SuperMatt> oh, they're very helpful, but it would have been nice to having a step by step tutorial which explains creating an account, and then logging in to it
<SuperMatt> much of what I've done has involved reading about the methods and classes, working out what's being returned and then applying the right method to that, etc
<popey> morning
<SuperMatt> morning popeles
<kvarley> Does anybody know if you can buy the Ubuntu stickers like that on the Dell Sputnik ultrabook?
<popey> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=718
<popey> ?]
<kvarley> popey: I don't think it's quite the same, but they'll do :) thanks
<kvarley> popey: Do you have the 13.04 shirt yet?
<kvarley> \0/ finally sensible shipping charges on the canonical merchandise sotre
<kvarley> s/sotre/store
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> \o MartijnVdS
<alexcockell> Morning...
<brobostigon> morning alexcockell
<MartijnVdS> formula 1 coming up on R5L (20 minutes)
<alexcockell> Pixar double bill on iTV2 at the mo..
<MartijnVdS> Toy Story 1 and 2.. have those on DVD :)
<alexcockell> Yeah- but even so - sometimes has to be done, as it saves arsing around spinning uip discs...
<alexcockell> Y'know what would really help - if the film industry managed to set upsomething like Public Lending Rights format - and feed this into Netflix etc.. meaning less up-front royalty cash
<alexcockell> ... and something morelike the music industry with PRS money..
<alexcockell> Oh - and lose exclusivity...
<alexcockell> = Netflix etc become the Spotifys of the film and TV world..
<dwatkins> or just rip all your DVDs and blu-rays...
<popey> Azelphur: how many have you ordered? https://products.butterflylabs.com/5-gh-s-bitcoin-miner.html
<Azelphur> popey: I have had 3 of the 60 GH/sec miners on preorder since June.
<popey> any idea when they will ship?
<Azelphur> nope they are the king of delays
<popey> surely they'd just make them and plug them in to mine themselves?
<diddledan> what are GH per sec?
<penguin42> giga-hash per second; as in cryptographic hash used in bitcoin?
<popey> the speed measurement for bitcoin mining
<diddledan> aah
<penguin42> it's depressing that there isn't anything useful and financially rewarding people could use their spare CPU for
<diddledan> spare is a matter of opinion. at full load my desktop pc uses nearly 4 times as much electrical power (watts) than it does when idle - put a gpu into the mix and it's even more. The cost of that electricity would probably outweigh any financial incentives to run at full tilt.
<penguin42> yeh agreed, but the bitcoiners are managing that
<diddledan> if I conservatively run at 250watts (no gpu running) at full load, then it'll cost over 25Â£ per month. double that (or more?) to include gpu processing. and that's just for one PC
<diddledan> I'll admit, though, that multicore improves matters power-wise
<ali1234> diddledan: the correct GPU will earn you double that currently... not for long though
<meet> hi. some quick questions. will everything working on 12.10 work as it is on 13.04?
<directhex> not neccessarily. some apps may no longer exist. some may have been rewritten and be significantly different
<ali1234> the new firefox is pretty crap
<ali1234> though that's already in 12.10
<ali1234> for example, you can't edit styles within the inspector any more, which now can only be a bar along the bottom of the screen and not a tab at the side
<funkyHat> ali1234: are you sure? I seem to be able to edit styles in firefox 20 here
<ali1234> well,  can't figure out how
<funkyHat> ali1234: I have an inpector pane which looks more like firebug than before, on the inspector tab I have "rules" selected from the 3 options at the right, I can edit style rules there
<zleap> hi tom
<ali1234> ah, that's it, thanks
<ali1234> now, can you tell me why mouse wheel scrolling has stopped working in the inspector?
<ali1234> or how to make it into a horizontal pane instead of a vertical one?
<funkyHat> No â¢( but you could detach it and put its window next to the main window
<ali1234> i guess i'll just switch to chrome then
<funkyHat> ali1234: how do you put the inspector on the side in chrome?
<ali1234> you can't
<funkyHat> ...
<ali1234> chrome however has other features that make up for the lack of this one
<ali1234> such as not being incredibly slow
<funkyHat> haha
<funkyHat> I've not found firefox to be slow since about version 16 or 17
<ali1234> and having working scrolling
<funkyHat> Scrolling also works here â¡(
<MartijnVdS> Beach++ http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/8668745337/in/photostream/lightbox/
<shauno> beach isn't quite the same out here .. http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2400/2050554123_e29f303247_b.jpg
<MartijnVdS> shauno: not a lot of colour
<shauno> he just looks like a wee speck, but there's actually a surfer in there
<MartijnVdS> black speck, far rihght?
<MartijnVdS> right
<shauno> that's the chap
<Sugarat> Hi all. Can anyone advise how best to get the AMD graphics drivers installed on Ubuntu 13?  I'm getting in the install log "fglrx installation requires that the system have kernel headers"
<funkyHat> Sugarat: sudo apt-get install fglrx ?
<Sugarat> I was trying to install the latest stable driver, 13.1  - do you know what version that would install?  I downloaded the zip file from amd's website
<directhex> 13.1 works. 12.8 is junk, 13.3 beta is junk
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-14
<muzini> http://i.imgur.com/Dv5VxDI.jpg
<muzini> view from the highest point in the UK
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> so there's some greenery left
<muzini> plenty of it
<muzini> from the top of Ben Nevis
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> can't be - not enough rain?!
<daftykins> how long's the hike?
<diddledan> daftykins: about 1.3km :-p
<muzini> About 4 hours up and 3 hours down
<diddledan> (straight up)
<daftykins> :o
<muzini> I've taken a radio up there
<muzini> and I heard Iceland and French radio stations from the Pyrenees
<daftykins> haha neat
<muzini> yep
<muzini> I'm planning a trip to Norway soon.
<daftykins> something bigger to climb? ;)
<shauno> try ireland!  nothing more than bumps to climb, but the radio reception is amazing
<daftykins> :)
<shauno> I found out recently that rte still operate atlantic 252's transmitter.  I had no idea it still existed
<muzini> It was not bad reception for 1,000 miles away but whilst you're up at 4409FT the French Transmitter is one of the Highest in the world
<muzini> at 10kft
<muzini> and it pretty much covers ths south of France for coverage.
<muzini> I was only hoping to hear the Faroe Islands but heard Icelandic instead.
<shauno> curious, what band?
<muzini> I've already tried Ireland before :D
<daftykins> i was going to ask which band too
<muzini> All the BBC nationals and classic
<muzini> from blackhill, forth 1, cluyde 1, tay fm, kingdom f
<muzini> beat 106, central fm
<muzini> MFR, northsound west fm and borders
<daftykins> so purely FM?
<muzini> I only did FM DXing
<diddledan> DXing?
<muzini> stations search
<muzini> http://imgur.com/a/MkGcP
<muzini> here is a gallery of images from my trip to Ireland
<shauno> I can't decide if I should queue another episode, or go to bed :/
<daftykins> i'm going with bed
<shauno> this is the sensible choice, since I should be up at 8.
<shauno> but .. does "too lazy to go to bed" make any sense?
<daftykins> yeah i'm always suffering from that one
<daftykins> i felt tired at midnight but here i am ;/
<muzini> whereabout are you?
<shauno> I don't particularly feel tired, but I know if I keep putting it off it'll get light again
<daftykins> muzini: Channel Islands
<shauno> I'm on the atlantic coast of ireland
<shauno> (I'm not sure why I always specify that, but basically, the bit that isn't dublin)
<daftykins> :D
<muzini> very nice
<muzini> I visited Alderney few years ago
<muzini> its a small island
<muzini> http://i.imgur.com/xFNtpMf.jpg
<daftykins> that's the only one i've not been to properly
<muzini> only about 2000 people.
<muzini> Really nice beaches.
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i have some local stuff if you'd like
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/axo44ps02ut2586/ZxhE4_TsjS
<muzini> its not very well known but its a 3wonderful island
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x4n77vp7rb9123a/MGPDBthSjg
<daftykins> and last one https://www.dropbox.com/sh/em6gqyhhbc4e01p/gT4UekIhov
<daftykins> just a phone i'm afraid so no fancy quality
<muzini> http://i.imgur.com/IvFEgXC.jpg
<muzini> this is what the town looks like
<muzini> really lovely.
<daftykins> :)
<muzini> theres an old fort there as well
<muzini> http://i.imgur.com/QrevKpL.jpg
<daftykins> i've been on a connecting flight via there, but didn't see more than the secluded airport
<daftykins> yeah my dad's quite into the island's fortifications from war time and so on
<muzini> http://i.imgur.com/YHH4MIo.jpg
<muzini> http://i.imgur.com/Q8rPB1Z.jpg
<muzini> and yet another
<daftykins> beautiful
<muzini> http://i.imgur.com/YKiWsN0.jpg
<muzini> this one is from the top of one of the forts
<muzini> they have lots of forts
<daftykins> well, all our islands do
<daftykins> the Germans put up tonnes of defenses during the occupation
<peret> alo lads
<daftykins> it's pretty quiet now mr.peret
<daftykins> only those of us that refuse to go to sleep remain
<daftykins> :>
<peret> well yes
<peret> everyone is asleep
<peret> even the bloody city
<muzini> I think these predate the german occupation by quite some time
<shauno> I love "haven't been there properly".  I got the mental picture of just waking up there drunk one morning
<daftykins> muzini: yeah they typically added onto them though
<shauno> (I know what you mean though.  I spent 3 days in Atlanta airport.  I still can't decide if I've "been" to Georgia or not)
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> on our roadtrip we actually didn't stop in GA
<daftykins> our guidebook said the best thing to see was the coca cola factory
<daftykins> muzini: foetal alcohol syndrome is pretty serious on Alderney
<muzini> was it worth it?
<shauno> that's pretty optimistic.  I'd probably claim the best thing to see was the "welcome to tennesee" sign
<daftykins> we didn't go :(
<peret> daftykins: the guide was correct
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> I didn't particularly enjoy atlanta airport, because every morning security seemed to get a little more curious about me.  I got touched in ways you'd normally pay 50eur for
<daftykins> oh dear
<peret> atlanta airport is the 2nd biggest attraction
<peret> this is according to futurama
<daftykins> lmao
<shauno> well here it is.  I'm going to bed because if I don't, I'll download GoT in the very near future and have a very rough morning at work tomorrow
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i'm heading off at last too
<daftykins> g'night all
<daftykins> have a good week o/
<shauno> now or never really :)
<shauno> o/
<jussi> morning ladles and gentlespoons
<nigelb> Morning jussi
<mapps> morning
<mapps> prob noone awake
<jussi> mapps: Im awake, just busy :)
<mapps> hey
<mapps> so happy
<mapps> we got an email about our bonus at work..way more than we expected
<mapps> :D
<shauno> that's always a good way to start the day :)
<mapps> ya
<mapps> 37.5%  bonus we expected 20-25
<mapps> i was v surprised
<mapps> and it makes a big diff
<mapps> prob like 5k diff
<jussi> mapps: nice!
<mapps> yes
<mapps> :D
<mapps> we expected some 20-25
<mapps> but i guess we did better than thought
<jussi> mapps: so are you then going to buy us all a round? :F
<mapps> although..that means the company made like 900mil profit lol
<mapps> sure
<mapps> if im ever somewhere you all are..il buy7:P
<mapps> i was looking at going to Finland or maybe Poland jussi on the 3rd may
<mapps> going to the United game.plane was to fly after
<mapps> but cant find any evening flights:(
<jussi> cool! come and have a drink with me!
<jussi> mapps: from where?
<mapps> ae you in helsinki?
<jussi> yes
<mapps> Manchester
<mapps> games 3pm
<mapps> i cant fly before 7pm
<jussi> well almost... in helsinki
<jussi> (about 50km out)
<mapps> like game finished 5pm..we'd hav to get to airport..and check in and stuff
<jussi> there are no flights after 18:30
<mapps> so plan was fly after united game and go to somewhee in EU
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i couldnt find ANY EU after 18;00?
<mapps> is it same for all eu?
<jussi> check in you can do before the game. only take hand luggage and you will be fine.
<mapps> i only ever take hand luggage
<mapps> still
<mapps> game finishs at 5
<mapps> what time6?
<jussi> when would you come back?
<shauno> ignore the football nonsense and you can make a much more effective use of the trip :)
<mapps> well
<mapps> on the 6th
<mapps> we got another united game
<mapps> so 3/4/56 we fly back
<mapps> then fly off again
<jussi> argh, they changed it - last finnair out of manchester is at 17:50. probably too soon for you...
<mapps> sheesh
<mapps> i dont think i could make it
<mapps> 3pm kick off
<mapps> na no way
<shauno> airport bars don't have TVs?
<jussi> yeah, 18:30 would have been fine. lemme check some others
<jussi> shauno: he is going to the game...
<mapps> it says 15mins from old trafford -> manchester airport
<mapps> 18;30 is earliest
<mapps> and yea il only have hold luggage
<mapps> so i can check in at home on internet.but coming from manchester
<jussi> ooh, theres one at 18:20...
<mapps> on when?
<jussi> you get in rather late to helsinki, but that shouldnt be a major problem...
<mapps> na
<mapps> thats fine
<jussi> its a Lufhansa flight, via frankfurt. on the 3rd may
<mapps> gives us 4/5 and 6 8pm ko
<mapps> ah
<mapps> how long total?
<mapps> and sometimes these via flights are well expensive
<jussi> you get in just before midnight UK time (1:45 am Helsinki time)
<mapps> i saw some like 200 quid 12hs when its like 2hrs nomallyt and 40quid
<mapps> yea thats fine for me
<mapps> how much though
<jussi> about a 1 hour stopover
<jussi> 290,33 â¬
<mapps> sheesh
<mapps> 7see
<mapps> thts expensive
<jussi> really?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> look at next day
<jussi> I thought that was pretty normal :P
<mapps> we can get return and hotel for like 400 euro
<jussi> in helsinki or poland?
<mapps> helsinki
<mapps> sec
<mapps> all desperate for our GREAT british pounds
<mapps> ;p
<mapps> http://www.expedia.co.uk/Helsinki-Hotels-Hotel-Haven.h2233290.Hotel-Information?packagePIID=53d29057-490b-4f35-a932-17de286326ce-1&usePS=1&packageType=fh&hotelId=2233290&currentRatePlan=402140200826229&packageType=fh&hlrId=0&defaultFlights=d4bcb9e215982a441d2d056c28a27970,d94f32084371bda3fa8d8a5af2b02225&originId=6000390&ftla=MAN&numberOfRooms=1&ttla=HEL&toDate=06/05/2014&infantsInSeats=1&
<mapps> fromDate=03/05/2014&destinationId=178261&adultsPerRoom[1]=2&currentFlights=d4bcb9e215982a441d2d056c28a27970,d94f32084371bda3fa8d8a5af2b02225&hashTag=picturesAndTours&inttkn=1wWjt7TRXte9d212
<mapps> fs
<mapps> http://goo.gl/DiaaHC
<mapps> check that
<mapps> 623 euros flight and hotel and 5*
<mapps> that near centre?
<jussi> yeah, I know that hotel. right in the centre of Helsinki. pretty nice place
<mapps> so see
<mapps> 293 are expensive
<mapps> that are 623 flight return and hotel
<mapps> :D
<mapps> i dont mind going to finland though..if my friend does too
<mapps> its euros yea?
<jussi> yes
<MartijnVdS> .fi is euro country
<mapps> ive got some euros from holland left
<mapps> :)
<mapps> yea
<MartijnVdS> mapps: You'll need Finnish Euros though
<mapps> but so is .cz MartijnVdS i thought
<mapps> and they use czech kroner
<mapps> what?? .fi euros? youre joking?:D
<MartijnVdS> .cz is EU, but not Euro (like UK, Denmark, and a few others)
<mapps> euros are the same everywhere?
<mapps> yea
<MartijnVdS> mapps: they are, I'm just kidding ;)
<mapps> *phew*
<mapps> :D
<MartijnVdS> mapps: When euros were new, I convinced a few friends that their German euros wouldn't work in .nl though
<mapps> you been to finland MartijnVdS?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: I have not
<mapps> i think its ok
<mapps> we never hear of any troubles
<mapps> or anything
<MartijnVdS> from Finland?
<mapps> yea
<shauno> finnish euros are the same as everyone else's euros, except you can't pronounce them :(
<MartijnVdS> They're a quiet people
<directhex> also drunk
<MartijnVdS> except if you're Russian.
<mapps> they like russian
<mapps> hm
<mapps> im not
<jussi> mapps: 345â¬ for 5* hotel (Hilton) + 293â¬ for flights = 638
<mapps> jussi
<mapps> look for 4 may
<mapps> whens earliest flight from manchester then
<mapps> gotta see the footie so il stay out in manchester all night then fly
<shauno> I tried that for a concert.  turns out the train station gets kinda cold in november :/
<shauno> that's now my primary memory of manchester.  an awkward night spent dressed in leather in the train station.  ahem.
<jussi> mapps: seems your deal is best for 4th of may. only gives me damn expensive prices here (10:20 seems earliest flight that I see)
<mapps> hm
<mapps> lets see]
<jussi> but you should also look at hilton for 5* - seems minorly cheaper
<mapps> sheesh
<mapps> im not a snob jussi
<mapps> 4* is fine;p
<jussi> mapps: then you will get a much better deal than Haven
<mapps> ah
<jussi> Service in helsinki is expensive
<jussi> mapps: what kind of holiday are you after?  a city break?
<mapps> yes
<mapps> like when i went cz
<mapps> and holland
<jussi> sec
<mapps> wanna be central
<mapps> jussi http://goo.gl/rfamNP ??
<jussi> thats a fair way from the centre...
<mapps> says 2mies from airport
<mapps> ah
<MartijnVdS> jussi: cabs!
<jussi> airport is ~20km from the centre
<jussi> MartijnVdS: you ever been in a helsinki cab?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: I've never been to Helsikni
<jussi> MartijnVdS: yeah, it shows :P
<mapps> jussi http://goo.gl/sVqkCf
<MartijnVdS> jussi: are they like Amsterdam cabs?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: no idea. but they are friggin expensive
<shauno> I tend to avoid cabs most places.  they all seem to turn into clandestine tour operators
<MartijnVdS> jussi: Amsterdam cabs are expensive and the drivers are maniacs
<jussi> MartijnVdS: just think that the airport is kinda like going to stansted
<MartijnVdS> every so often, there's a big fight among them
<jussi> mapps: do you like something a little "different" ? :D
<mapps> hm depends ow diffeent
<mapps> how
<jussi> "In a 1900s Art Nouveau castle, just under half a mile from central Helsinki, this hotel features free in-room Wi-Fi. Aleksanterin Teatteri Tram Stop is 260 yards away."
<mapps> i like a bed not tent..ive done festivals;p
<mapps> ah cool
<mapps> is it on expedia?
<jussi> dunno, on booking.com
<jussi> Glo Hotel Ar
<jussi> t
<mapps> that sounds cool
<mapps> i just use expedia as hey do flight ad everything for me
<mapps> asier;p
<mapps> lol
<MartijnVdS> booking is great (to use); I've heard from several hotel owners that they're a bit sucky :)
<mapps> heh
 * jussi goes back to work
<mapps> :D
<shauno> I gotta admit I've started using booking.com for comparisons, and then actually booking through the hotel
<mapps> why
<directhex> i use hipmunk for flights
<directhex> i like its "agony" scoring
<mapps> going to cz in 3 weeks again
<mapps> cheap beer cheap cigs
<mapps> :D
<shauno> there seems to be a split between how hotels treat 'their' guests vs booking's guests
<mapps> ah
<shauno> not huge differences, just things like who gets the room with the view, etc.  or in some cases, whether it counts towards their loyalty programs, and blah blah blah
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Look Up at the Sky Day! :-D
<mapps> hey JamesTait
<mapps> morning mate
<JamesTait> Morning mapps! o/
<diddledan> yawnage!
<diddledan> 4 days?
<diddledan> amirite?
<MartijnVdS> https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/useing-youre-types-good
<diddledan> eek
<bashrc> morning
<diddledan> mornign
<bashrc> is anyone on pump.io ?
 * diddledan pumps
<diddledan> I've not really looked into it yet
<scott_deagan> Hey folks. No 14.04 release party in London this year?
<directhex> 14.04 release party is on the moon. BYOB.
<diddledan> bring your own bomb?
<MartijnVdS> bring your own bits?
<mapp> yo
<directhex> bring your own base. can't have a party on the moon without a decent moon base.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: but all your base are belong to us.
<mapp> going back to tottenham next week
<mapp> :D
<mapp> spurs v fullham
<scott_deagan> :D
<mapp> should be good
<directhex> you could use the nazi moon base, but it needs some tidying first
<Laney> pumpio pumpio PUMP I OOOOOOOOOOO
<mapp> hmm
<mapp> slightly worried
<diddledan> what was the name of their ship?
<mapp> i accidently skipped a taxi
<mapp> i didnt have any money/know where it was - woke up on the train euston -> stoke7but
<mapp> ive got a feeling i got a taxi and said i had no money but woukd pay
<mapp> cant remember
<diddledan> oh dear, that's not good
<mapp> yea
<foobarry> mapp: my train stops at white hart lane on my way home
<mapp> we'd been having such a good time at WHL
<mapp> :D
<mapp> foobarry
<mapp> where you at?
<foobarry> on match days we get loads of overweight chavs ont he train
<foobarry> enfield, i'm an arsenal supporter
<mapp> ah no
<foobarry> had a season ticket for many years until couple of seasons ago (kids)
<MooDoo> hello all
<mapp> you live in a flat or house foobarry?
<mapp> just isnt most of london flats?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapp> and like 2 bed flats : 6
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<foobarry> surburbia is not flats
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<foobarry> it is trees and houses
<mapp> ah
<mapp> so you got a house garden etc?
<mapp> nice
<foobarry> yes
<mapp> how much u pay a month mate if i can ask
<mapp> all i could find was like 1500-1700
<foobarry> i own it, i've never rented
<mapp> looking at e +c
<mapp> oh
<mapp> you're a lot older than me i guess :)
<foobarry> but i know of lots of friends in enf who rent
<foobarry> i bought my first house @ 25
<foobarry> but it was 65k \o/
<mapp> is it not like 1500=1700 there?7
<mapp> its iduclous eveywhere now
<foobarry> i don't think my friends could afford 1500pm
<mapp> seriously mate
<mapp> look at the rents
<mapp> its like 1500=2000 in almost all of london
<foobarry> you can get a quite  nice maisonette in gordon hill for 1050pm
<directhex> that's because russian minerals oligarchs own all the houses
<brobostigon> my pebble lasted 6 days before hitting 20% charge, very happy with that.
<foobarry> http://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/32216602
<mapp> thas not too bad
<mapp> but
<mapp> 1050 for 1 is still a bit
<foobarry> they are nice inside
<foobarry> 2 large bedrooms
<mapp> yea
<mapp> but 1050 for 1 is still quite a bit
<mapp> i could *just* manage
<foobarry> you can get a lodger
<mapp> pfff
<mapp> :D
<foobarry> its like a house inside
<foobarry> i owned the one a few doors up
<mapp> im trying to move to e+c
<foobarry> whats e+c
<mapp> but i dont think i can afford to
<mapp> elephant and castle
<foobarry> eww
<mapp> lol
<foobarry> dude, try there at night
<foobarry> its dangerous
<mapp> ive been there many times;p
<foobarry> i feared for my life
<mapp> been to ministy of sound
<foobarry> and i live near edmonton
<mapp> i guess im different
<foobarry> still doing heartbleed updates :(
<foobarry> for internal servers not managed centrally
<mapp> im 6`2 19 stone..so usually get left alone:D
<mapp> like at the spurs match
<mapp> lol
<mapp> the seats ae a joke
<mapp> im rubbing shoulders and legs with the guy next to me
<foobarry> especially in winter couats
<mapp> its rubbish
<mapp> :(
<mapp> was gonna say summit else then realise itd this chan
<mapp> you been bell and hare in tottenham foobarry?
<foobarry> nope
<foobarry> i avoid tottenham :D
<mapp> oh
<mapp> :P
<mapp> na
<mapp> its fine
<foobarry> i'm arsenal fan
<mapp> ah
<mapp> well i went other day was ok
<popey> pip pip
<foobarry> so i'm against everything tottenham. years of indoctrination
<foobarry> althogh i went to the aldi in bruce grove once
<foobarry> my son needed a wee and no shops had toilets
<mapp> tottenham isnt too bad
<mapp> i spent hours in that pub
<mapp> AND im fucking from surrey ..i sound as posh and soft as they come;p
<mapp> was speaking to some big black guy like60year old he eben took the piss outta my accent lol
<foobarry> hmm my cronjob is not running.
<directhex> when did 3.5" disks get thinner?
<diddledan> o_O
<MartijnVdS> they did?
<directhex> my sshd is about 0.5cm thinner than the spinpoint it replaced
<MnemonicCarrier> Greetings and salutations.
<MnemonicCarrier> Hast thou a 14.04 release party for me and me maties?
<diddledan> yaarrrr
<diddledan> there was talk of one at canonical hq
<scott_deagan> I asked earlier, apparently there's one on the moon, but you have to bring your own base.
<diddledan> but I not sure what the outcome of the discussions was
<scott_deagan> diddledan: that would be cool.
<MooDoo> thought popey was creating the event?
<dwatkins> fun times with certificate problems after heartbleed
<MooDoo> dwatkins: bain of my fricken existance.
<dwatkins> MooDoo: I can imagine - some certs for additional sites used in a product I support weren't updated - all hail the javascript console for showing me this information
<MooDoo> pick a nick will ya ;)
<mapp> yrgh
<mapp> how much do i sponsor someone at work
<foobarry> what for?
<foobarry> marathon?
<mapp> Â£50?
<foobarry> or eating donuts
<mapp> na
<mapp> hes running some thing..for his kids.he had 2 kids that died and he has  fom another girl
<mapp> bit like
<mapp> i hate sponsors
<mapp> hate feeling like i need to pay people
<foobarry> give waht you would be happy with
<foobarry> giving grudgingly is hardly worth doing :D
<mapp> to me its lke
<mapp> ya
<mapp> but iike it just fees annoying always being asked for momey for someones new charity raise
<foobarry> reminds me i need to sponsor a martahon friend
<mapp> mmy cousin run the marathon
<mapp> she lives in you knows caulsdon?
<mapp> in croydon
<foobarry> cauldron?
<mapp> gah
<MartijnVdS> mapp: time for a new keyboard? :)
<mapp> Coulsdon
<mapp> Coulsdon is a settlement at the south of the London Borough of Croydon, lying between approximately 12.5 and 13 miles from Charing Cross. Wikipedia
<mapp> Weather: 13Â°C, Wind NE at 3 mph (5 km/
<mapp> :P
<foobarry> "settlement"
<mapp> so i said o instead if a
<foobarry> sounds like some sort of peasant dwelling
<mapp> ]yea
<mapp> LOL
<mapp> no
<foobarry> like in stronghold
<foobarry> throw burning oil on them
<mapp> couldson is nicer tha croydon
<mapp> have u been to croydon
<mapp> its a dump
<mapp> definitely not gypsies
<mapp> my uncle was  DCI in the MET before he retired
<mapp> :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> SSH tunnels - am I doing this right?
<Dave2> who knows
<bigcalm> There is a MS SQL server I need to connect to from a local windows machine. The MS SQL server is not publicly accessible. It is accessible via a Linux server I have a login on
<dwatkins> are you using -L or -R, bigcalm?
<bigcalm> ssh -L 1433:firewalled.off.server.com:1433 publicly.accessible.server.com -N
<bigcalm> I can do telnet localhost 1433 and it connects to something
<dwatkins> looks right based on my own alias for redirecting from a public server, can the machine you're sshing to resolve the name of the firewalled-off server, bigcalm?
<bigcalm> But I can't connect MS SQL Server Management Studio to my machine
<diddledan> "something" :-D
<bigcalm> dwatkins: I'm using a 10.x.x.x IP address
<dwatkins> can the ssh server connect itself to the SQL port if you login to it and telnet from it?
<bigcalm> $ telnet 10.176.199.42 1433
<bigcalm> Trying 10.176.199.42...
<bigcalm> Connected to 10.176.199.42.
<bigcalm> Escape character is '^]'.
<dwatkins> also, ssh -vv (or -vvv) might be useful)
<bigcalm> That was useful
<bigcalm> I can telnet localhost 1433 and it connects
<bigcalm> From another linux machine here, I try telnet 192.168.1.4 1433 and it says connection refused
<bigcalm> 192.168.1.4 is the machine I'm running the redirect on
<bigcalm> So it's allowing connections from localhost but not from elsewhere on my LAN
<bigcalm> Anybody with thoughts?
<bigcalm> Can I set up a tunnel from the local windows machine?
<dwatkins> do you mean that the machine you're setting up the redirection from isn't allowing external machines to use the redirected port? that's an option in the ssh config
<dwatkins> http://www.snailbook.com/faq/gatewayports.auto.html
<bigcalm> dwatkins: correct
<bigcalm> Woooooooo
<bigcalm> -g fixes it!
<dwatkins> :D
<bigcalm> Thanks dwatkins :)
<dwatkins> you're welcome, happy to be of help :)
 * bigcalm tries not to wreck the client's live database
<dwatkins> I assume they do backups...
<diddledan> dwatkins: that's a crazy idea!
<dwatkins> I know, right?
<treb0r> Hi Chaps, any launch parties planned for trusty in or around Manchester / Liverpool / Leeds?
<foobarry> who has redmine set up for version control?
<popey> treb0r: if not then feel free to set one up
<treb0r> popey: might be a bit short notice now. But I really do want to get more involved with Ubuntu Uk and do this kind of thing in the future.
<treb0r> I've seen the light (again)
<denni____> What would be a good place to buy cheap dinner plates, drinking glasses in the UK? I feel things are quite expensive here in London.
<popey> denni____: pound shop
<denni____> ah, good point, there are many pound shops right?
<popey> or any supermarket
<denni____> like 99p shop is one?
<popey> yes, every high street has one
<denni____> 97p shop etc.
<MooDoo> treb0r: if you do set one up or in the future set one up for manchester then i'm only an hour or 2 away from you.
<MartijnVdS> IKEA?
<denni____> IKEA good idea too, I'm a bit far unfortunately.
<denni____> http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/00133123/ - great price,
<popey> they deliver now iirc
<denni____> I'll definitely also check the 99p shopsa, argos cheapest is 1.50 each, but I want to buy 10, a lot of things
<popey> you can get a dinner set in most supermarkets
<popey> everything in a box - usually 4 of each or 6 of each
<dwatkins> daftykins: thanks for sharing the link to the ThinkBroadband graph, it's quite interesting to see how well mine is working: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/91564c510e3f9da30e764b06a81e49e0.html
<ali1234> chrome really sucks
<ali1234> it's the new IE
<ali1234> i have to put workarounds because the rendering engine is so terrible
<ali1234> not only is it broken in both android and desktop version, it is also broken in different ways
<BigRedS> is there an Android Chrome that's different to Android's default browser?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> and it is also different to chrome for desktop
<BigRedS> oh, why?
<BigRedS> I mean, different on desktop I can understand
<bigcalm> Because nobody likes consistency
<BigRedS> but two mobile browsers?
<ali1234> android chrome is for tablets
<ali1234> android browser is for phones
<ali1234> here is a page which utterly fails in chrome for android http://jsbin.com/xosabita/1
<ali1234> http://jsbin.com/xosabita/1/edit for source code
<ali1234> compare with firefox to see how it is supposed to look
<diddledan> no, android chrome is replacement for android browser
<ali1234> it kind of works in chrome for desktop, but not quite
<diddledan> the two aren't meant to coexist
<ali1234> diddledan: android chrome is unusable on a small screen
<diddledan> I've never had a problem
<ali1234> you probably never used a small screen
<ali1234> i'm talking about 800x480 and so on
<directhex> android 4.4 no longer offers an up-to-date widget for embedding web browsers
<directhex> as used by the standard browser app
<directhex> gotta use chrome
<directhex> or bake your own browser
<aaronr> Anyone here running 14.04 yet?
<czajkowski> me
<czajkowski> been running it for the last 3 months
<aaronr> i notice ia32-libs isn't around anymore, is there a new metapackage for installing that the 32-bit compat stuff?
<MartijnVdS> aaronr: no. You can just install the required 32-bit libraries separately. It's called "multiarch"
<aaronr> specifically I need libsm6:i386 but that doesn't seem to exist. libsm6 has both 64-bit and 32-bit versions though according to launchpad
<aaronr> prelaunch bug maybe? or am i going about this in the wrong way?
<MartijnVdS> aaronr: works fine here, did you 'apt-get update'?
<MartijnVdS> aaronr: can you do:
<MartijnVdS> dpkg --print-architecture
<MartijnVdS> and:
<MartijnVdS> dpkg --print-foreign-architectures
<BigRedS> you have to add the arch first don't you?
<aaronr> yeah ran aptitude update about 20 mins ago, so should be pretty recent
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Maybe on upgrade? I didn't need to by default
<aaronr> running those dpkg comands
<MartijnVdS> aaronr: also, what's the message you get when you run 'apt-cache policy libsm6:i386' ?
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: ah, perhaps. I'm sure I had to do it before, but only on older distros
<aaronr> hm, no foreign architectures. guessing that's the problem. https://gist.github.com/anonymous/424a4782e93df3aac534
<MartijnVdS> aaronr: in that case, dpkg --add-architecture i386; apt-get update
<MartijnVdS> (also don't use aptitude please)
<aaronr> ... and now it knows about libsm6:i386 :) thanks!
<MartijnVdS> np!
<aaronr> aptitude is now bad-form?
<MartijnVdS> yeah, its dependency resolution/conflict resolution is worse than apt's own now
<aaronr> oh wow. that's the entire reason i used it over apt-get :/
<aaronr> which release did that get worse with? (something since 12.04 i'm guessing?)
<MartijnVdS> aaronr: It didn't really get worse, just apt-get got better ;)
<aaronr> ahh okay
<aaronr> also i read a couple days ago that there's an apt command in addition to apt-get/apt-cache... which is the preferred one to be using in 14.04 land?
<MartijnVdS> ooh
<MartijnVdS> that's new to me
<MartijnVdS> it looks like that merges apt-get+apt-cache
<aaronr> it seems to, but from what i read at first it's kinda aptitude-like in that it does things its own way? will find the omgubuntu link, one sec
<aaronr> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/04/how-to-enable-apt-terminal-progress-bar
<MartijnVdS> aaronr: except it's written by the apt maintainers :)
<BigRedS> aptitude used to be hilarious. "aptitude install postfix" "okay, but I'll need to remove Apache2 and vim, and install xemacs to do that"
<diddledan> o_O
<aaronr> haha, yeah. for a while though it solved apt-get's craziness
<diddledan> apt-get vs apt SMACKDOWN
<aaronr> IT'S ON
<aaronr> so i'm guessing that eventually apt-get and apt-cache will be replaced by the apt command?
<aaronr> if it's by the same people?
<MartijnVdS> I suppose
<diddledan> I wonder why the new name
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: because apt-get/apt-cache is confusing
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yum, etc. all have it in one command
<aaronr> yeah i did like that with aptitude i didn't have to remember to append the correct suffix
<BigRedS> I've always thought there should be an 'apt' commadn that just knows which subcommands are for apt-get and which for apt-cache and calls them respectively. This seems like rather a more complex solution to the same problem :)
<BigRedS> Was a consensus reached on a release do in London? I've just marked-as-read about a billion lists emails...
<awilkins> MANCHESTER
<awilkins> Everyone who is anyone is in Manchester
<MartijnVdS> we are?
<dwatkins> I thought I was in Edinburgh.
<awilkins> I thought you MartijnVdS was in Holland...
<awilkins> (I'm in Leeds)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: amsterdam atm yes
<BigRedS> Manchester? That's up near Enfield isn't it?
<bigcalm> Harry?
<bashrc> I'm in Manchester
<Seeker`> I'm not \o/
<dwatkins> me neither, unless there was some serious seismic activity whilst I was asleep
<foobarry> thought my phone had been charging all day. cable had been knocked. its at 5% :(
<diddledan> foobarry: no playing tuxcart on your way home then?
<foobarry> :(#
 * popey hugs his portable battery
 * foobarry remembers his wife had the same phone
<foobarry> but doesn't use it anymore
<foobarry> but its at home :(
<diddledan> having "slack" at work, an IRC-alike for businesses, is a bad idea - I make too many risquÃ© jokes
<directhex> we have an irc-alike for business
<directhex> we call it "irc"
<diddledan> yeah, it would be mucho simpler-o to get everyone on real-irc
<diddledan> plus it'ld let me have my irc window open while in the office without anyone suspecting I'm not doing real work
<diddledan> slack has some nifty things though. they've made it irc++
<peret> hello
<mapps> YES
<mapps> my passport came
<mapps> :D
<brobostigon> visiting scotland soon mapps ?
<mapps> pah
<mapps> nie
<mapps> Finland/Iceland/Budapest
<mapps> on the next schedule
<brobostigon> sorry, bad joke.
<mapps> :D
<mapps> =so why would i pay Â£15 for post office check and send..did it myself and it was fine?
<mapps> what a ripoff
<brobostigon> it would be a vlid joke, if scotland seperated, but still aplies now.
<brobostigon> yop
<mapps> and loads must pay i
<mapps> i almost did..thinking maybe i dont summit wrong
<mapps> but absolutely no need
<diddledan> what's the post office check and send?
<mapps> they check your application check its all ok etc
<mapps> and send it basically
<diddledan> o..k
<mapps> ya
<mapps> ripoff
<diddledan> passports are expensive enough without that rubbish
<mapps> ya
<mapps> think i paid 72 quid
<diddledan> that sounds about right
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i couldnt totally remember
<mapps> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2604168/Woman-hated-34a-breasts-afford-boob-job-wish-come-true-STRANGERS-internet-funded-op.html
<mapps> what a name
<mapps> 'Gemini' gotta love it when chavs name kids
<MartijnVdS> "We named her after her star sign"
<mapps> so many young parents name their kids all kind of crazy things
<mapps> whats wrong with the normal names
<mapps> https://frogs.zapto.org/~mark/html_tutorial/geolocate/geolocate3.html how close does that get using non gps? for me 72metres
<mapps> and the streetview image is of my side wall!
<mapps> with gps it gets to 10metres!
<mapps> was just curious
<MartijnVdS> invalid SSL cert
<mapps> ya
<mapps> because i generated it myself
<mapps> and it isngt signed i think?
<mapps> *isnt
<foobarry> anyone else getting  cold  calls from GFK "market research"
<mapps> nope
<mapps> i get cold calls but theyre more weird than that
<mapps> i get calls to my andline pick it up..beep beep..noone there...so hang up
<mapps> 1hr later same thing
<mapps> so i just unplug my landline generally..i only use it for my adsl - but then i plug it back i and its ok for a month..then they start again lol
<foobarry> interrupted my dinner
<mapps> i dont get what mine is? its literally beep beep
<mapps> noone there..number withheld
<mapps> you had that?
<foobarry> yep
<foobarry> that means there is no callcenter monkey to take the call
<foobarry> altough they called you
<mapps> lol
<mapps> really?
<mapps> everuy time thats all i get
<mapps> i got a call off orange asking if i wanted a 2nd contract or a tablet as one of their higher tarrif customers
<mapps> like LOL
<ali1234> the autodialer keeps a pool of phones ringing so that there is always a call available for the next operator
<mapps> i pay enough..pay 55 a month..i wanted unlimited data
<mapps> ah
<ali1234> it's highly illegal to do that but they don't care
<ali1234> they are operating from outside the EU usually
<mapps> yea and noone does anything about it..how can we? and the regulators are a joke anyway
<mapps> but lol at orange
<mapps> do i want to double my bills..why yes please
<daftykins> dwatkins: good to know! (re: the thinkbroadband graph) i found it very handy for proving packet loss to my ISP
<daftykins> yours looks pretty clean though :) other than 9am to 3pm 0o
<diddledan> I set mine up earlier http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/2b709c2c6943bd70c02de18acd959a66.html
<diddledan> pretty decent for what it's managed to capture thus far
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> neat
<daftykins> i have a dynamic IP though so it's a pain to keep recreating
<diddledan> ergh
<diddledan> sucky
<daftykins> not sure if i shouldn't just disable it now, as they fixed my issue
 * diddledan petpet his static
<foobarry> page up/down keys have been lost to the tomato soup :(
<daftykins> nooooo
<foobarry> oh, just page up
<popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1206403106/chaos-reborn-from-the-creator-of-the-original-x-co?ref=category
<foobarry> watching collectaholics with a guy who has 35000 star wars objects
<foobarry> these guys are nearly always men
<popey> getting close but possibly wont make it
<foobarry> and stragnely, nearly always married
<mapps> lol
<mapps> but that means nothing
<mapps> there's plenty of pigs
<mapps> horrific ugly fat women
<foobarry> :-|
<foobarry> r u drunk?
<mapps> no?
<foobarry> just checking
<mapps> you said strangely nearly always married
<mapps> just saying..loads of awful women around
<foobarry> well they seem a lot more understanding than they should be
<foobarry> like the man who collects empty beer cans and displays them all over the house
<mapps> plus a lot of women need to be with someone for confirmation they're doing ok..i see girls at work go from SUPER SERIOUS relationship to another
<mapps> and its like just lol
<mapps> yea i guess, but everyone has hobbies
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> it's the hoarders i can't stand
<mapps> lol
<mapps> hoarding i get..as stuff can be useful
<mapps> but
<daftykins> i've started programs about them before but can't finish them
<daftykins> i just get annoyed :D
<mapps> not when they're keeping like empty egg cartons lol
<mapps> i dont like chucking stuff out..but i can still tell whats clearly rubbish:P
<daftykins> exactly :D
<mapps> its shocking sometimes
<mapps> like they clearly cant even move about the house
<daftykins> like i recycled a lot of PATA cables the other day 'cause that's now useless practically :>
<mapps> foobarry you know what i mean? like anyone can get a women/girl if they want
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> id probaby have kept them
<mapps> but thats me
<daftykins> how much exposure are you going to have to PATA equipment now though? :)
<foobarry> why is pistorius saying milady instead of m'lud
<mapps> but what if daftykins
<mapps> then il belike YES I GOTS THEM
<mapps> and youll be all upset
<daftykins> well i kept a pair of them
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> but i got rid of surplus
<foobarry> wifey visiting family.
<foobarry> got one evening spare to myself. time to fire up the airbrush
<daftykins> ah model time?
<foobarry> yep
<foobarry> finally got the guts to do a lnacaster
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> airbrush?
<daftykins> foobarry does airfix style stuffs
<foobarry> a noble hobby
<mapps> ah cool
<mapps> im crap at anything like that
<mapps> fat fingers:D
<shauno> I break for ribbon cables!  it's not unusual to lop the ends off though.
<diddledan> the launch isn't going ahead
<diddledan> next window friday
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> I wanted to see a rocket go flamey
<bashrc> are they launching shuttleworth again?
<diddledan> lol, no, spacex
<bashrc> ah
<bashrc> stuff in space
<daftykins> i thought you meant ubuntu for a bit
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> shauno: break for them? hmm?
<shauno> a bumper-sticker meme :/
<daftykins> oooh brake
<daftykins> :>
<shauno> ;)
<shauno> I no good the english.  looooong day :/
<daftykins> not quite sure why i couldn't make that leap
<shauno> it wasn't an intentional leap :|
<daftykins> naw, just surprised i didn't get it
<shauno> I'm getting that a lot at the moment.  did you know, if you use wpa-psx instead of wpa-psk, wifi doesn't "get it" either?
<shauno> I can't type, I can't read, I can't follow instructions .. I think it's bedtime soon
<dwatkins> daftykins: yeah, my ISP seems to concentrate mostly on businesses, which is fine for me as I'm not using it much during the day
<dwatkins> i.e. they have mostly business customers, hence the daytime latency
<foobarry> bbc2
<foobarry> storage space market is crazy
<mapps> gah
<mapps> living alone isa pain at times
<mapps> take aways :<
<mapps> min order Â£10
<daftykins> :<
<mapps> ive ordeered 2x my order before
<mapps> but
<mapps> its pretty grim cold
<mapps> lol
<mapps> how is this allowed..channel5 pick pockets and proud 34yr old criminal talking about pick pocketing..living in a council house paid for by us
<mapps> surely the council could stop their benefits and the police could prosecute
<shauno> I'm not sure things are that easy
<mapps> well its on channel5 now and theyre shown pick pocketing..bragging about it
<mapps> surely the council could act on it
<mapps> just feels like a mockery that we're paying their benefits and they commit crimes against us all?
<shauno> sure.  but I have to wonder if making them homeless isn't a little disproportionate  (and whether it'd discourage them, or just make them have to 'work harder')
<mapps> well
<mapps> surely we could prosecute based on the tv shhow get them off the streets
<mapps> there's romanians shown to be bragging making money pickpocketing on the tube.stealing bags etc
<shauno> sounds like a plan.  luckily we don't pay for prisons ;)
<mapps> well whats the solution
<mapps> let them do whatever they want?
<shauno> that's what I mean.  not that easy
<mapps> without sounding like well cant think of the word..you can tell what these lot are like a mile away
<mapps> the way they dress/act/look etc
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-15
<jussi> morning channel
<mapps> hello
<mapps> :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> morning MooDoo
<jussi> morning MooDoo mapps
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning
<dv81> morning =]
<dv81> does ubuntu-uk have a hostname cloak?
<mapps> no idea;[
<jussi> no
<jussi> only ubuntu
<MooDoo> no it doesn't
<MooDoo> oh rats jussi beat me again
<jussi> MooDoo: get used to it :P
<MooDoo> :p
<dv81> ty
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy One Day Without Shoes Day! :-D
<mapps> so much good tv on mondays
<mapps> hey JamesTait
<mapps> one day without shoes LOL
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: I refuse.
<MooDoo> JamesTait: stuff that, it's happy birthday MooDoo day :p
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, perhaps you prefer Bicycle Day?
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: that would work
<JamesTait> MooDoo, happy MooDoo Day! :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: happy MooDoo Day!
<MooDoo> awww shucks guys
<nigelb> JamesTait: can I trouble you for a little freenode help? :)
<JamesTait> http://www.toms.com/onedaywithoutshoes/l
<JamesTait> nigelb, you can try. :)
<MooDoo> maybe we all can help nigelb  :D
<knightwise> morning everyone
<nigelb> MooDoo: Heh
<knightwise> trying to explain heartbleed to a company (and how they should patch it) is frustrating.
<MooDoo> knightwise: oh tell me about it, we've suffered from it :S
<nigelb> knightwise: please use xkcd
<nigelb> xkcd has explained it as simple as it can be explained.
<MooDoo> knightwise: pic.twitter.com/ydnqjRD476
<knightwise> yeah , i did that
<knightwise> but the kneejerk reaction of management is " LETS CHANGE ALL THE PASSWORDS"
<knightwise> now trying to explain to them its no use.
<knightwise> They technically know whats wrong but they have no clue as to how to respond to it
 * knightwise does not have enough palms for quadrupal facepalm
<nigelb> knightwise: You did patch openssl, right?
<knightwise> we are now looking at how many SAAS providers we have outside our own datacenter that we need to check
<nigelb> fml
 * nigelb lends knightwise a few hands for quadruple facepalm
<knightwise> and then there is fingerpointing politics
<muzini> good morning
<knightwise> "not my call" - "thats his department" etc etc.
<nigelb> knightwise: can't believe tech is still run like that.
<knightwise> nigelb: you have no idea
<nigelb> but then... why am I surprised.
<knightwise> I only have 3 days left before I quit the company ... So I should not be getting fired up like this
<nigelb> :)
<MooDoo> knightwise: professionalism
<knightwise> MooDoo: True .. i think i'll stop caring when I leave
<knightwise> although I should start focussing on my new venture
<MooDoo> knightwise: where you going?
 * knightwise started up his own company
<knightwise> will start working as a freelancer starting next month
<MooDoo> knightwise: web site?
<knightwise> not online yet
<knightwise> I have scored a 5 month contract so .. i'm 'in business'
<MooDoo> congrats, brave brave brave
<knightwise> thanx :)
<bashrc_> morning
<muzini> good morning.
<muzini> hows the weather today bashrc_ ?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<knightwise> hey bashrc_ muzini
<muzini> hey knightwise
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<muzini> good morning
<muzini> still a bit of snow here
<muzini> http://i.imgur.com/994mkOL.jpg
<muzini> will eventually clear out and start changing into green
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo and muzini
<popey> Happy birtyhday MooDoo
<jussi> ooh, MooDoo got old... Happy over the hill day MooDoo :D
<popey> within just a few days it's been jussi me, Dave2 and MooDoo birthdays
<popey> i think
<jussi> couple of weeks, but yeah
<MooDoo> jussi: thanks popey thanks :D
<popey> hehe http://imgur.com/a/UO8sJ#1
<dennis__> I am getting a new UK phone number, what is the most pretty one? 07474130090 07474187700.
<jussi> dennis__: the second one
<nigelb> +1
<nigelb> zero's in between are harder when you give the number to someone.
<dennis__> I agree, but most people said 0090, there are even many people that went with the last option that was 3800, but 7700 seems obviously better.
<nigelb> *zeros
<dennis__> double seven, double zero seems easier than thirty-eight-hundred or double-zero eighty,
<jussi> yup
<Myrtti> last one
<dennis__> a lot of people seemed to love the 0090, but seems 7700 better,
<popey> "a lot"
<dennis__> I take too much time for simple decisions like this, i've bought
<popey> how many people did you ask!?
<dennis__> I've polled about 8 friends.
 * popey notes that most people will never dial it
<popey> but will select "Dennis__" or whatever from their addressbook
<dennis__> I know, I'm not that popular.
<dennis__> ah right, true!
<dennis__> it's a one-time thing, save a number.
<popey> i dont know my wifes mobile
<popey> she's had it for 10 years or so
<popey> i never dial it
<Laney> I learned a few important ones
<Laney> have needed them a couple of times
<dennis__> well, could be helpful to know, but yeah, I almost know no numbers, exception landline parents, own landline (I picked an easy number voip), and my old mobile phone numbers, not friends/family numbers.
<dennis__> well, I know the landline number of my parents, although it hasn't changed for 30 years.
<Laney> bet it had a 1 inserted :P
<dennis__> just one :p
<popey> when we moved in my mums number was 4 digits
<popey> slowly grown over time
<dennis__> ah, UK numbers are 11 digits now, I thought it'd be like NL, 10-digit
<dennis__> 9300 < this is most commonly pronounced ninety-three-hundred, right?
<directhex> it's an american thing to use "hundred" for 2-digit numbers
<directhex> it's much more common IME to say "nine thousand three hundred" for that number in the UK. maybe other UK regions differ
<directhex> for sharing identifying numbers (phone number, credit card, etc) rather than quantities, you'd usually not use either and sound out each number individually, or at most take 2 digits at a time
<brobostigon> i tend to go with three numbers in rows.
<dennis__> ah ok, I figured 130090 would be thirteen-hundred-ninety.
<directhex> e.g. my phone number ends one-nine-three-one-one-six not one-hundred-and-ninety-three-thousand-one-hundred-and-16
<dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_numbers_in_the_United_Kingdom#Format
<dennis__> ah, well, if your number ends with 80, why not say eighty
<dennis__> rather than eight-zero
<dwatkins> because it sounds a bit like eighteen ;)
<popey> yeah, i say mine as 07xxx xxx xxx
<popey> saying all the digits individually
<dwatkins> likewise
<dennis__> I've definitely heard "double" being used a lot in phone numbers.
<dwatkins> my only issue is whether to say "zero" or "o"
<popey> double and triple are used in the UK and confuses USians quite a bit
<popey> also we say "oh" for "zero"
<dwatkins> and people from France, who are used to hearing telephone numbers as pairs of digits
<dennis__> ah right, I understand. :) It's been an interesting few weeks so far in the UK.
<popey> heh
<MooDoo> yay extender for my go pro is here :D
<davmor2> Morning all
<dennis__> I have a question!
<dennis__> So if you walk on a street... just going straight ahead... and there is a car on your side... also going ahead until he makes a turn... if he almost kills you while turning while you keep walking a head... who has the right of way?
<brobostigon> the german word being "null"
<dennis__> UK Traffic still takes getting used to for me, but in Holland if you go straight ahead... even as a pedestrian...
<dennis__> cars should wait.
<popey> dennis__: walk on street or pavement?
<MnemonicCarrier> dennis__, in the US, by law, under the scenario you mentioned, the car should wait.
<dennis__> I walked on the pavement, I was crossing a street.
<popey> were you crossing a minor road?
<dennis__> Yes!
<popey> and he was turning from the major road to a minor road?
<dennis__> going straight ahead, but crossing
<dennis__> yes
<dennis__> I was on the pavement of the major road.
<dennis__> he made a turn to the minor road, which I crossed.
<popey> oh, you were on the pavement
<MnemonicCarrier> dennis__, I've come across this problem many times in the UK. It's not really practical for a pedestrian to twist and look behind them.
<brobostigon> walk off here, and youre likely to get driven over, rather than the car waiting.
<popey> the driver _should_ let you cross
<dennis__> MnemonicCarrier, right!
<popey> rule 170
<brobostigon> should, yes, happens, not likely.
<popey> of the highway code
<dennis__> the driver was very angry with me.
<MnemonicCarrier> Common sense says the car/driver should wait and give way to the pedestrian.
<popey> MnemonicCarrier: we have highway code, not common sense â»
<MnemonicCarrier> :D
<popey> highway code says "Take extra care at junctions. You should.. watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way"
<popey> but from what you said you hadn't started
<MnemonicCarrier> It's almost like an attack from the rear.
<dennis__> yeah, I was crossing a road, he was turning, I didn't expect him coming, especially since in the UK people come form other directions
<dennis__> he hadn't, he went so quickly while I just walked.
<dennis__> I think he saw me, but just couldnt be bothered by going slower lol,
<MnemonicCarrier> If you're already on the road, I'm sure he has to wait.
<brobostigon> see above, yes.
<dennis__> well, in Holland the bikes/pedestrians going straight ahead, always go first.
<MnemonicCarrier> I don't know why so many people become so aggressive and impatient when behind the wheel of a car. Personally, I can't wait for the oil to run out ;)
<dennis__> well, the bikers in the UK seem a bit dangerous too, I miss my bike though.
<MnemonicCarrier> dennis__, agree. Most folks on bike don't even know what the road rules are.
<dennis__> MnemonicCarrier, you moved from the US to UK?
<MnemonicCarrier> Yes.
<dennis__> ah cool.
<dennis__> the UK/London seems very expensive to me, I'm using to paying less for things.
<dennis__> But my Norwegian colleague says he was always used to paying Â£6-8 for a beer in the pub, which seems so crazy.
<MnemonicCarrier> dennis__, yeah, this place has its share of problems, but there are a lot of positives too.
<dennis__> In Holland we pay like Â£8 for 24-Heinekens in the supermarket.
<dennis__> ah yeah, I am very happy to be in London, Rotterdam seems like a little village compared to it, I've met a lot of great people.
<MnemonicCarrier> So, any news on a Ubuntu 14.04 release party in the UK?
<jussi> dennis__: you like cities?
<dennis__> jussi, I wanted to go abroad for an adventure, new experience, after having always lived in Holland. London is perfect for me right now, I like traveling/tourism. I miss having a car, things being affordable. Maybe when I have a family, I'd prefer a smaller place. But seems hard to get a good paying IT job far from the city.
<jussi> dennis__: depends what kind of "IT" you mean :D
<jussi> (personally I hate cities)
<dennis__> Linux server infrastructures.
<MnemonicCarrier> I'd like one of those jobs that Angela Bennet had in "The Net" :)
<popey> dennis__: you just compared a pub with a supermarket for beer prices which is unfair
<dennis__> I understand, I've got nothing against cities, as long as I've got my privacy and enough private time.
<popey> beer is cheap in supermarkets here too
<brobostigon> in my local, a decent beer will cost you Â£3.60 now.
<dennis__> popey, beers are like Â£1 each? in the AH, you can get 24 beers 330ml for Â£0.15 each.
<popey> depends which beer
<popey> and where you buy it
<brobostigon> old hooky,
<dennis__> right, I've so far been mostly in Tesco's.
<MnemonicCarrier> I stopped drinking and smoking because of the cost of cigarettes and beer.
<dennis__> but seems unlikely to get 24 beers in the UK for Â£4, more like Â£10.
<dennis__> well, I smoked smoking a few years ago, but UK cigarettes expensive too right, maybe highest behind Norway/Australia
<MnemonicCarrier> In Australia, they don't even "brand" cigarette packets now :D
<dennis__> So how do you know it's Marlboro?
<brobostigon> 25g of a decent tobacco is about Â£7.50 now.
<MnemonicCarrier> http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-plain-packaging-reduce-smoking-rates/16548
<awilkins> So... silly question, are there channels on here one can ask questions about Microsoft products in?
<popey> ##windows
<MnemonicCarrier> The name is written on the product, but there's not real "branding" per se.
<popey> smoking should be banned completely â»
<dennis__> awilkins, there are quite a few windows related irc channels here, windows-server, and others
<jussi> popey: nah, then it would just become like pot. which actually sucks.
<popey> nah, I'd allow pot
<jussi> hah!
<popey> but disallow tabacco
<popey> pot has widely known benefits
<MnemonicCarrier> A couple of US states have legalized pot. It has, in a very short time, already turned in to a multi-billion dollar industry.
<MnemonicCarrier> So what's up with the lack of 14.04 release parties in the UK? You'd think this country would be swarming with them (considering Canonical is HQ'ed here).
<foobarry> distro updates are not exciting anymore
<MnemonicCarrier> :(
<popey> partly because it's thursday before easter
<MnemonicCarrier> I might offer up my company's office for a release party - near "Silicon Roundabout".
<MnemonicCarrier> popey, Ah, I see...
<foobarry> cannot seem to disable two finger scrollling on windows :(
<foobarry> edge scroll ftw
<foobarry> and 2 finger scroll is broken :S
<davmor2> MooDoo: Happy Birthday fossil boy ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: and if it isn't you'd better change your G+ profile :P
<foobarry> wow. edge scrolling is removed from the options :-|
<MooDoo> davmor2: thanks mate :D
<czajkowski> lots of ubuntu machines here today at the hackathon for public sector
<bigcalm> Anybody here using a wireless headset with a cisco phone?
<czajkowski> looks rather cool to see them from randomers :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: BOO!
<czajkowski> davmor2: hello sunshine
<davmor2> czajkowski: How's life treating you
<czajkowski> busy :)
<czajkowski> but good
<czajkowski> you?
<popey> czajkowski: where you at?
<foobarry> having to click "install update" 1 update at a time on win7 :(
 * knightwise decided to get a Dell Xps 13 as his first company laptop
<foobarry> i got a spiritual successor to the d630
<czajkowski> popey: Mongodb London
<czajkowski> we're running a public sector hackathon
<knightwise> foobarry: spiritual ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: pffff call yourself busy ;)  Busy as hell testing everything in the universe :)  so happy as a pig in muck (well the less clean version) :)
<czajkowski> lol
<foobarry> knightwise: the e7440 is like the d630 in many ways
<foobarry> but not officially
<wo0f> afternoon all
<Myrtti> I've got e6430
<Myrtti> to succeed mine
<foobarry> mmm jelly snakes
<Laney> think i'm going to have to stop wearing my tog rated duvet socks
<Laney> SUMMER'S HERE PEOPLE
 * popey closes the blind
 * jussi runs away
<Pendulum> jussi: hiya!
<jussi> Pendulum: !!!!!
<jussi> long time no see!
<Pendulum> I know! I miss you :(
<DJones> Why do audiobooks always seem to have the dodgy/suspicious character read by a very fake Australian/New Zealand accents, a bit how all Brit's in US series seem to speak like Parker from Thunderbirds
<SuperMatt> None of the audiobooks I listen to are like that
<DJones> Must just be the sci-fi ones I listen to
<DJones> Evil dictator taking over earth...Australian, Secret double agent about to drop you in it...Australian
<SuperMatt> I've been listening to the wheel of time books since I started at rackspace
<SuperMatt> would you believe I've only just started book 3?
<popey> \o/ egg mayo sarnie for lunch on a hot day
<popey> it's summer
<Pendulum> DJones: Most Americans can't tell the difference. I'm sure some of that is because of having heard the fake accents their entire lives, but if they don't know it's wrong, the companies don't get complaints.
<Pendulum> As well, in the US, accent (that isn't an American accent) = suspicious. Think about the number of films that have "evil" Brit characters.
<Pendulum> I think it's Jaguar that actually put out a recent tv advert here playing with that
<popey> Pendulum: i think we use french in the uk as the shifty accent
<Pendulum> you get those in the US sometimes, but much less often
<dennis__> everybody hears I have a dutch accent
<Pendulum> dennis__: I'm American, but I'll start to subtly pick up accents from other places depending on where I am/who I'm with. I used to come back from UDSes and confuse folks at home because I had such a weird mix. Americans seem to generally assume that I'm from where they're from (exception is people from the Deep South).
<dennis__> ah right, hehe, that's funny.
<popey> My wife went to Ireland and came back with an irish accent once. That was odd.
<foobarry> popey: was is more sexy?
<foobarry> *it
<foobarry> would be great if my wife got a french accent
<popey> it was odd
<dennis__> did she say "Pass me another whiskey Paddy me lad!" ?
<dennis__> popey* me lad
<directhex> dist-upgrade.
<foobarry> git pull
<daftykins> popey: could you understand anything? :)
<popey> bizarre push
<popey> yeah
<popey> i do have irish friends who I almost never speak to because I can't understand a word they say
<popey> I have to get them to sms or email me â¹
<daftykins> lmao
 * daftykins glances at czajkowski 
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> hrmm i just had to double my bigv VPS' RAM 'cause it was killing apache processes
<foobarry> my matese dad is caleld cornelius, but there are people who have called him tony for 20 yrs and wrtie cheques to tony because they don't understand him
<daftykins> i'm only running two wordpress sites, one which isn't even live, and two static sites D:
<dogmatic69> daftykins:  I had that issue the other day, turns out I had 99% HDD full of logs, cleared them out an all is good again
<daftykins> any thoughts on watching the memory usage a bit better? i'm watching top right now with the memory column sorted
<popey> hah, that makes about 6 people I have seen that happen to now
<popey> i switched from apache to lighttpd
<popey> and not had the issue
<daftykins> hrmm
<dogmatic69> daftykins:  how much mem you got?
<popey> it doesnt matter, it will eat it all
<popey> i have 1.2GiB here
<dogmatic69> I use cherokee server wich is cool, low mem + admin UI in the browser
<daftykins> dogmatic69: it was 1GB but it was showing ~40MB free, with 15MB page used - i've just upgraded the VPS to 2GB now
<dogmatic69> apache is pretty lame
<dogmatic69> 2GB ram is enough to run FB :P
<daftykins> hehe
<popey> the thing is it seems to be the combination of wordpress, php and apache that does it
<dogmatic69> I have about 15 sites with light traffic and 500mb
<dogmatic69> some are WP too...
<daftykins> hrmm
<ali1234> it's just php and misconfigued apache
<daftykins> well, i'm fresh booted and using 256MB right now
<directhex> 2455 packages upgraded, 327 newly installed, 132 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<daftykins> the whole of /var/log is 33MB so i don't think logs are it
<daftykins> probably just apache being a bloater as ali1234 suggests
<daftykins> ali1234: any common config faux pas you know off hand to check?
<ali1234> php uses the memory, then bad apache config means the workers never restart
<ali1234> yeah the most common things are allocating far too many workers, and keeping them alive for far too lon
<ali1234> g
<daftykins> that would figure, i'd bet there are a fair few up
<daftykins> crikey there appear to be 10 in ps output
<ali1234> that's not too bad
<daftykins> already up to 400MB used in a few minutes after boot
<daftykins> http://pastebin.com/9hcq2Cpj
<daftykins> apache2.conf there
<daftykins> in part that is
<daftykins> doh - that feeling when someone from #ubuntu you helped remembers your nickname and starts PM'ing
<daftykins> maybe i need more numbers in my nick...
<daftykins> ali1234: any of the above to blame or am i looking in the wrong place? :)
<daftykins> ah looks like maxrequestsperchild is iffy
<daftykins> http://forum.bytemark.co.uk/t/out-of-memory-due-to-apache/922/4
<daftykins> this looks like a plan so i'm going to give it a whirl
<ali1234> there's a way to monitor what the workers are doing
<ali1234> you can use it to check for slow requests
<daftykins> hrmm
<ali1234> those can lead to too many workers getting created in bursts
<ali1234> and then they stay around
<daftykins> sat at 318MB used right now since i edited the config and restarted
<daftykins> the base VM with apache stopped appeared to be using ~145MB
<daftykins> ah yes can play with mod_stats to see what's up
<daftykins> hrmm, well i'll see how this goes then maybe try and look into it further
<daftykins> i've downgraded back to 1GB RAM now \o/
<davmor2> Man why did I not know about scp -C before now
<dwatkins> -C' Compression enable. Passes the -C flag to ssh(1) to enable compression.
<dwatkins> handy indeed
<awilkins> If I have a lot of copying to do I usually just use tar
<awilkins> tar <options> | ssh <target> tar <extract-options>
<awilkins> Doesn't start and stop connections for every little file, less overhead, more compression
<davmor2> awilkins: indeed for me though I need 1 big folder and 5 files so I looked up copying multiple files with scp as I only normally transfer 1 and yes it is nicely supported and then found the magic scp -C took no time at all to transfer
<davmor2> awilkins: the 2 wonderful thing about linux are: 1. you are always learning, 2. there is always another way to do something :)
<awilkins> Indeed :-)
<awilkins> tar kicks butt when you have lots of teensy files
<dwatkins> most of the stuff I copy tends to be compressed anyway, e.g. video
<diddledan> xzip is awesome for text - 90% reduction isn't unheard of
<diddledan> `xz file` or `tar Jcf tarfile.tar.xz file(s)`
<diddledan> that's an upper-case J
<Tamy> Hi is there going to be ubuntu 14.04 launch party in london ?
<bigcalm> Most likely. I think there's been some chatter about launch parties on the mailing list
<directhex> i'm on 14.04!
<czajkowski> folks try out : http://spotholes.azurewebsites.net/PotHoles
<davmor2> czajkowski: no :P
<directhex> czajkowski, running on ms azure?
<davmor2> directhex: czajkowski is being a puppet of evil I bet there is a mongodb backend :D
<directhex> davmor2, azure lets you deploy a trusty server in about 3 clicks
<davmor2> directhex: I know but I enjoy winding czajkowski up
<czajkowski> davmor2: so sleepy
<czajkowski> bugger off
<davmor2> czajkowski: family channel naughty
<davmor2> czajkowski: Surely it would be easier to just assume every road has pot holes and knock them off 1 at a time
<ali1234> bootstrap. cool
<ali1234> bootstrap is probably the best thing that has ever happened to html
<czajkowski> davmor2: go find a bug :p
<diddledan> s/bug/pothole
<davmor2> czajkowski: that's easy
<ali1234> czajkowski: the form for entering the coordinates isn't themed correctly
<ali1234> also the design isn't responsive in general, which would be handy for a mobile site
<ali1234> luckily these things are trivial to fix with bootstrap :)
<muzini> goood evening
<mapps> hm
<diddledan> hmmm
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<jpds> Hmm
<daftykins> mm-hmm
<DJones> Its the crash test dummies sing that famous song....
<diddledan> hmm?
<davmor2> DJones: Fool there are too many h's it's just M's in the crash test dummies song
<DJones> davmor2: Yeah, but people drop their h's when they speak
<davmor2> DJones: hahaha
<ali1234> recently i have noticed that a lot of people started pronouncing "h" like they are trying to cough up phlegm
<ali1234> it's really annoying
<daftykins> so it becomes more like ACCCHHHH?
<ali1234> no
<diddledan> H = aitch. NOT HAYCH!
<ali1234> no, not that
<ali1234> listen to nick clegg say the word "hundred"
<daftykins> just because someones elses chat comes sequentially doesn't mean it pertains to that above
<daftykins> but that involves going near politics
<daftykins> :<
<diddledan> I hate the use of "an" before a word beginning with the letter H, too.
<ali1234> or whenever anyone says it in an advert
<diddledan> "an 'otel" works, but "an hotel" doesn't
<daftykins> that sounds wrong to even use? :)
<daftykins> just got a cheap Dell Latitude 3330 in, nice little Â£400 machine
<daftykins> it's ivybridge, but a neat little office work level i3
<dwatkins> faul'y towahs
<daftykins> ?
<dwatkins> daftykins: Faulty Towers, but said with a cockney accent (in reference to the earlier conversation about pronunciation)
<daftykins> ah yes
<diddledan> lol @ ubuntu phone mailing list talking about a diaper app
<davmor2> diddledan: Yeah spot the manager with a newborn
<daftykins> :/
<daftykins> i was at a wedding on saturday, the baby talk was overwhelming
<diddledan> seems everyone is forking-off pet babies these days
<diddledan> the baby-store should put a health warning on pre-sale babies
<dwatkins> a nappy app?
<dwatkins> is this so that parents are reminded to change their baby, as opposed to listening to it or smelling it?
<daftykins> safer not to enquire methinks ;)
<diddledan> I'm with daftykins on this
<wo0f> signed te code of conduct...
<wo0f> feels like a boss
<diddledan> well done wo0f
<wo0f> diddledan: :D
<diddledan> it's impressive just on the technical front for most folk
<diddledan> let alone that they actually feel they want to
<wo0f> much easier actually using ubuntu desktop to do it
<diddledan> lol, yeah
<wo0f> tried and failed before using windows and putty into an ubuntu box
<wo0f> but yes, i feel very accomplished lol
<wo0f> now to up some code... :D
<diddledan> \o/
 * diddledan throws a party
<diddledan> careful they're quite hard
<diddledan> I'd duck
 * wo0f joins party
<daftykins> the wo0f of wall street
<wo0f> lmao
<wo0f> basically how it feels
<mapps> hm
<mapps> code of conduct for what
<ali1234> launchpad, basically
<mapps> an
<mapps> cool
<ali1234> it's not actually required for anything
<ali1234> it just says it is :)
<ali1234> they're kinda of lax about the CLA too... i managed to get code into multiple projects without signing either
<diddledan> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1230230734/stargate-universe-season-3-20-episodes
<dwatkins> that's quite a goal
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-16
<diddledan> tick.it
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> silly wrong window syndrome
<mapps> morning all
<diddledan> mornin mapps
<mapps> morning mate
<jussi> morning diddledan, mapps
<jussi> wheres MooDoo? I need him to make my morning jokes :P
<mapps> no lights work in my room now..desk light went so i used bedsight lamp (had 2 one of them..bulb went months back) and my light above my bed has gone too
<mapps> lol
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> jussi: I'm here
<jussi> MooDoo: you are late!
<MooDoo> jussi: yeah bad day yesterday
<mapps> :(
<nigelb> Mornin'
<mapps> morning nigelb
<ali1234> what software should i use to sync my android photos on to my computer now that U1 is closing?
<MartijnVdS> Google Plus
<ali1234> google plus cannot do this
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: install Picasa on the PC and it can
<ali1234> no
<MartijnVdS> yes.
<ali1234> software must be open source
<MartijnVdS> Android auto-upload to G+, Picasa auto-downloads
<MartijnVdS> A new requirement appears!
<ali1234> android can't even auto-upload
<ali1234> unless you install some extra plugin
<MartijnVdS> in that case, attach Android device to PC, drag & drop files to preferred folder
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> no no no
<MartijnVdS> No?
<ali1234> that doesn't work properly either
<ali1234> neither does bluetooth file transfer
<MartijnVdS> drag & drop works fine here
<ali1234> drag and drop works
<directhex> shotwell? f-spot?
<ali1234> the part that doesn't work is the part where you plug it in to the PC
<directhex> oh, plugging it in angers you
<directhex> well, good luck with that
<ali1234> having to do anything at all angers me
<MartijnVdS> best to write your own then
<ali1234> i should be able to take the photo and have the photo on my computer minutes laters, without doing anything at all
<ali1234> that's what U1 does
<MartijnVdS> won't U1 be open sourced?
<ali1234> supposedly
<jussi> ali1234: spideroak
<MartijnVdS> well then, problem solve
<MartijnVdS> d
<ali1234> the U1 android client is broken though
<jussi> ali1234: alternately, if it must be open source, owncloud
<ali1234> jussi: and what software do i use on android to sync the photos automatically?
<jussi> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.owncloud.android
<MartijnVdS> pwncloud
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> so runing trusty
<czajkowski> and chromium seems to have updated
<czajkowski> looks rather f'ugly
<jussi> czajkowski: in what way?
<jussi> ali1234: source for the app is here: https://github.com/owncloud/android
<ali1234> thanks
<czajkowski> jussi: https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/456333448396169216
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Save The Elephant Day! :-D
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait diplo TheOpenSourcerer
<MartijnVdS> \o MooDoo
<MooDoo> hello MartijnVdS :)
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<MooDoo> :)
<popey> welcome back TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
<bashrc_> morning
<MooDoo> morning bashrc_
<diddledan> *yawn*
<diddledan> no sleep for the wicked
<diddledan> (me)
<awilkins> So : Remmina - can't get it to do "shared drives" with Win2k12 server
<awilkins> It works with the Windows RDP client
<TheOpenSourcerer> What I've been waking up to every morning for the past 10 days: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KyC0t2mcxP4/U04y7Qk8hXI/AAAAAAAAPaY/09GsLhFzSto/w1201-h901-no/20140413_170543.jpg
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: lots of blue
<awilkins> rdesktop does \\tsclient\ folders just fine. But sadly, it doesn't support the new crypto requirements for connecting to Win2k12 server
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Indeed. And warm.
<awilkins> With Remmina, I get a \\tsclient server, but it has no shares on it, even if one is configured
<dennis__> popey, http://i.imgur.com/UJf8jii.jpg - somehow like this the 9300 number looks prettier, argh! :p
<MartijnVdS> dennis__: just pick one... it's not a race for the prettiest number :)
<dennis__> it is!! :p
<dennis__> I know, I know.
<DJones> dennis__: Its a phone number, its not as if you won't change it in a couple of years anyway :)
<dennis__> I know, I think I have OSD
<dennis__> ODS?
<diddledan> on-screen display?
<dennis__> obs*
<dennis__> obsessive blabla disorder, obd
<diddledan> compulsive
<dennis__> ah, right.
<popey> ooooh www.instructables.com/id/70s-Terminal-PC/
<popey> hm, copy and pasting urls in chromium used to get the protocol, now it doesnt
<diddledan> popey: that's awesome
<diddledan> except it's running XP
<jussi> popey: chromium took a huge downhill step this morning (whatever update happened, things broke. lots of them)
<popey> yes
<popey> horizontal scrolling
<popey> font rendering and lots of other things
<jussi> popey: that pc is awesome :D
<nigelb> 33
<nigelb> (gah)
<dwatkins> 42
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<vineeth> Any idea about how to access windows repository(tortoise SVN) from rabbitSVN ?
<vineeth> we'r trying to access windows repository(tortoise SVN) from ubuntu localmachine rabbitSVN ?
<vineeth> any idea how to do it?
<vineeth> Any idea about how to access windows repository(tortoise SVN) from ubuntu ?
<vineeth> anyone here ??
<TheOpenSourcerer> vineeth: Have you installed svn on Ubuntu?
<vineeth> ya we installed rabbitvcs
<bigcalm> !wait | vineeth
<lubotu3> vineeth: Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<TheOpenSourcerer> svn co url://to-my-svn-repo
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've not heard of rabbitvcs - I just use svn
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or git or bzr or whatever.
<codecowboy> vineeth why are you private messaging me? Netiquette dictates that you ask before you PM.
<vineeth> i'm new here
<codecowboy> vineeth ok. So don't do that ;) I also don't know the answer to your question I'm afraid.
<MooDoo> vineeth: have a read of this if you're new - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines :)
<vineeth> ok thanks
<MooDoo> oh and welcome :)
 * bigcalm reads it for the 1st time
<MooDoo> bigcalm: shhh ;)
<awilkins> Windows Server makes me angry
<awilkins> Trying to diagnose problems
<MooDoo> awilkins: event viewer :p
<awilkins> Usually, I'd go and grep the log folder
<awilkins> Event Viewer is what is making me angry
<awilkins> Is there a "search for text" thing?
<awilkins> Aha, a "Find" box
<awilkins> It's tiny
<dwatkins> Yeah, Google has spoiled us with the idea of everything being searchable ;)
<MartijnVdS> Search ALL the things
<diplo> bigcalm: you about ?
<Myrtti> awwww no Trusty update for me? boo.
<asdf_> .
<bigcalm> diplo: I am now. Sup?
<directhex> http://blog.barisione.org/2014-04/maynard/
<bashrc> awilkins: Windows is not really ready for the desktop
<bigcalm> directhex: funky
<MooDoo> Myrtti: how come?  you not updating baring in mind, it's not released until the 17th
<neuro> gotta love omgubuntu
<neuro> where no dissent in le comments is permitted :)
<awilkins> bashrc, This was a *server*. Went through .. and it's running a font bitmap caching service
<awilkins> WHY THE HELL does Windows SERVER run a freakin' FONT CACHE. Sounds like it's trying to be Windows desktop to me.
<neuro> don't get me started on windows server
<awilkins> I'd really like to stop this one
<neuro> it *IS* a windows desktop, it just has MOAR SEARVER SCHTUFF
<awilkins> The problem is that it's running a website composed of overwhelmingly static pages... plus a search page
<awilkins> The search page depended on a Windows service that is now dead
<neuro> could probably do the same on a dinky 128MB ubuntu vm :)
<awilkins> The "replacement" is basically ... i) Sharepoint ii) MS SQL iii) SOAP web service
<awilkins> IT's a 700MB download
<neuro> sharepoint?
 * neuro makes cross signs with his fingers
<neuro> BEGONE FOUL DEMON
<awilkins> Yeah, "MS Search Server" (worst name ever, try searching for that in Google and getting useful results)
<awilkins> It's actually some search engine from Sharepoint
<neuro> top hit, microsoft search server article on wp
<neuro> second hit, download page for Microsoft Search Server 2010 Express on microsoft.com
<neuro> you were saying? :)
<awilkins> Ok, ok.
<awilkins> Try searching for technical detail with that in
<neuro> what like installation gudes?
<awilkins> Like "replace indexing service with search server in application"
<neuro> i see four of them on the first page
<awilkins> Anyway... infrastructure team have struggled to get it running including a support call to MS
<neuro> msdn query about that on the second hit of "microsoft search server replace in application"
 * neuro does a google dance
<neuro> eeshk
<awilkins> Server is now at 90% RAM consumption
<neuro> double eeshk
<awilkins> SQL server keeps thrashing CPU
<neuro> yeah
<neuro> well
<awilkins> Event log is full of "Oh dear.." messages
<neuro> are you sure it's really 90% full
<awilkins> And I've not so far managed to have a basic succesful test of the SOAP query API
<neuro> are you looking at the process list or just the performance page on task mgr?
<awilkins> TAsk mangler
<awilkins> Process list
<neuro> ah k
<awilkins> But even so, server running like dead greyhound stapled to breeze block
<neuro> cos windows will eat ram the same way linux and OS X do for cache
<neuro> i really do wonder why people still choose windows for generic tasks like these
<awilkins> Very, very, very tempted to just i) rewrite templates that generate web pages to not be ASP flavoured
<awilkins> ii) Port search page to Lucene
<neuro> hehe
<neuro> iii) ???
<neuro> iv) Profit!
<awilkins> iii) Stick it in a very small Linux Vm
<awilkins> Sadly, our IT department won't support Linux VMs
<neuro> wow
<neuro> are they from the stone ages or something?
<neuro> my ops team loves linux
<awilkins> They don't have any Linux sysadmins
<neuro> then again, I am the ops team
<neuro> so ...
<neuro> ah right
<awilkins> Yeah, the devops here love it too (that's me)
<MartijnVdS> Lucene, isn't that Solr now?
<awilkins> Name rings a bell
<MartijnVdS> https://lucene.apache.org/solr/
<MartijnVdS> Solr is a standalone enterprise search server with a REST-like API. You put documents in it (called "indexing") via XML, JSON, CSV or binary over HTTP. You query it via HTTP GET and receive XML, JSON, CSV or binary results.
<awilkins> So basically, what I'm trying to do. Only not MS flavoured
<neuro> Solr stands on top of Lucene
<MartijnVdS> but Java-flavoured
<MartijnVdS> so should be x-platform
<neuro> ha!
<awilkins> I'm a Java dev, daily workload speaking
<neuro> we use solr here
<neuro> i don't pretend to understand it tho
<awilkins> That's an endorsement. Apparently, it's so simple it can be used by those who don't understand it.
<neuro> wtf
<neuro> i just had one of our franchisees in istanbul call my number
<neuro> asking for someone in the office
<neuro> when the office is about 400 mi away
<Myrtti> MooDoo: got a package called manage-distro-upgrade upgraded
 * awilkins does a search for "Services" on Windows server 2k12 and is slightly surprised when the first hit is not the "services" control panel but Internet Information Services.
<awilkins> Win2k12 dash - nil points
<dwatkins> Can't you just type "services" in the Fisher Price start menu?
<awilkins> That's what I did
<awilkins> Typed "services" and hit enter
<dwatkins> oh dear
<awilkins> I got IIS control panel
<MooDoo> this is not #speakandspell you know ;)
<dwatkins> does the "run" dialogue even still exist in win8/server2k12?
<awilkins> https://twitter.com/dr_barnowl/status/456403599484915712
<awilkins> #speakandspell
<dwatkins> I want a keyboard for my phone like that now.
<MooDoo> ha ha ha hah a
<awilkins> Wasn't a bad drop either
<Myrtti> Maintainer: Canonical Commercial Engineering <commercial-engineering@canonical.com>
<Myrtti> ;___;
<diddledan> Myrtti: that's code for "we reserve the right to charge you" :-p
<Myrtti> no, I think that's the code for "we got paid by the suppliers of your hardware to make sure you don't get shot on your foot with release upgrade"
<Myrtti> that is, Dell.
<Myrtti> I think I got a Chrome update and now Google Hangouts doesn't work at all :-(
<Myrtti> stupid Google
<awilkins> Well, I hope they're trying to fix the "eats loads of CPU time" thing I've been seeing
<popey> yeah, i had that, had to kill all my chromium processes
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Getting-Flash
<czajkowski> following this to get my flashing working again
<czajkowski> and diddly squat, anyone else having issues today
<dwatkins> flashing, czajkowski?
<czajkowski> still get please isntall the plugin.  I HAVE!
<czajkowski> dwatkins: aye
<dwatkins> on all sites which need flash?
<dwatkins> is the plugin present and enabled in chrome://plugins ?
<foobarry> my edge scroll is slow...how would i increase speed of scrolling>
<Myrtti> czajkowski: I get that with Google Hangouts plugin
<SuperMatt> has anywhere been decided upon for tomorrow?
<SuperMatt> I'll be there in one of my racker shirts, I think
<czajkowski> yeah hangouts suits
<czajkowski> works
<czajkowski> but videos to watch don't
<foobarry> my laptop is "ubuntu certified" but apparently the touchpad support is a fail
<bashrc> maybe one day everything will be webm
<foobarry> who has the same laptop? directhex ?
<directhex> ?
<foobarry> e7440
<directhex> i got one for a co-worker
<foobarry> ah
<foobarry> touchpad seems unconfigurable and slow and jerky
<foobarry> theres a bug about it but new kernel still bad
<foobarry> 3.14
<czajkowski> exir
<czajkowski> bleugh
<directhex> foobarry, that's the kind of thing i'd notice only really after extended use, and i only had it during installation
<foobarry> yeah. no worries directhex . i thought u owned it :D
<mapps> wow
<mapps> its such a nice day outside
<directhex> and i'm in an air conditioned office
<awilkins> MS Search Server : 2 days and a call to MS support and it still doesn't work (despite sitting on my server guzzling 50% of the CPU)
<awilkins> Apache Solr : 1h56m and I have a working instance on my devops box.
<awilkins> Since I'll have to address either via REST API calls in VBScript, I know which one wins
<mapps> at least the aircon works i take it directhex :)
<mapps> at work they always say theyll fix it..but yea
<neuro> i've just added a polite version of "RECRUITERS: BUGGER OFF" at the top of my linkedin profile
<neuro> getting tired of random connection requests and "ooh, job" messages when i'm quite happy where I am
<neuro> 16:36 <awilkins> Apache Solr : 1h56m and I have a working instance on my devops box.
<neuro> awilkins: props dude :)
<awilkins> neuro, Could do it again in 10 mins... it's working out which folders to chown and where to shove the config that takes the time.
<neuro> aye
<awilkins> Now I just need to work out how to shove documents into it
<neuro> i went looking for debs, gave up in the end
<awilkins> There's a package but it uses tomcat6
<awilkins> Which is a shame given that the server is running 6
<awilkins> oops 7
<DJones> neuro: linkedin are spammers of the worst kind, somebody you don't know can submit your email address to their database & you get a crapton of spam from them
<awilkins> Will probably use the packed in Jetty for the Windows box it's destined for
<awilkins> Even with the Java install it will be smaller and lighter than running SQL frickin' Server on it
<awilkins> And it's soo  much easier to query
<awilkins> URL instead of a big fat SOAP cake
<awilkins> Next I may look at expunging the ASP classic script from these pages, then it won't need Windows at all
<MartijnVdS> you're a hero :)
<awilkins> They're basically static pages
<awilkins> The ASP is there for 2 reasons
<awilkins> i) Someone can't configure web servers properly, so all the paths are relative not absolute
<awilkins> ii) The search page
<awilkins> Just about to replace the call from the search page to MS Indexing Service (because it's gone in Win2k12 server)
<awilkins> MS Search Server is a bust. 700MB download, eats resources like sweeties, takes days to configure, and still doesn't work.
<awilkins> I mean, the thing is essentially a SharePoint installation (!)
<awilkins> I _hate_ SharePoint
<MooDoo> AlanBell: have i missed the ircc meeting?
<MooDoo> ignore that, it's 7pm not 6
<MooDoo> daftykins: you causing trouble in #ubuntu again ;)
<daftykins> never trouble, just following policy
<daftykins> sadly people tend to get on the defensive
<MooDoo> i know just teasing :D
<foobarry> was this video inspired by UUPC? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTK0mpniqPw#t=48
<foobarry> even soudns like some of the presenters
<shauno> uupc has ninjas now?
<foobarry> lol @ the virgin email storm
<foobarry> sent to all virgin customers
<foobarry> on a particular mial list
<foobarry> which seems to allow anyone to reply all
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-17
<Myrtti> czajkowski: oddly enough, Google Hangouts works just fine in Firefox, prompting the reinstallation of the plugin only on Chrome
<Myrtti> works on older chromium too
<mapps> ,p
<mapps> morning
<MooDoo> hello all
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> release day seems like an excellent day to avoid IRC
<MooDoo> especially #ubuntu :p
<daftykins> indeed :(
<daftykins> omw. never seen it so bad
<mapps> lol why
<daftykins> every 5 seconds: "when's it out?!"
<jussi> just don't join #ubuntu-release-party
<MooDoo> no not that mad.
<daftykins> nope, never gonna do that!
<nigelb> I used to be in release-party for every release
<nigelb> those were the days
<MooDoo> I remember when I were a lad ;)
<daftykins> did you run a client with joins and parts hidden? ;)
<nigelb> nah, it's all part of the fun.
<jussi> daftykins: I used to be there every release also, with joins/parts ON!
<nigelb> "It'll all join to be parts of the fun"
<nigelb> *runs*
 * daftykins chases with an outdated ubuntu CD
<Myrtti> I used to be in a lot of channels.
<nigelb> I used to be in 150.
 * nigelb is glad he's under 40 or so channels now.
<Myrtti> I wasn't quite so hardcore
<daftykins> i forget people and i'm only in 9
<nigelb> I haven't parted a few channels becaue it would break my muscle memory for other channels :\
<mapps> hm
<mapps> well
<mapps> that was nice
<mapps> a new favourite sandwich from tesco:D
<mapps> chicken, pepperoni and cheddar..yum
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> that sounds like an accident
<mapps> lol
<mapps> its so nice
<mapps> i normally get egg and bacon.bit they didnt have it
<mapps> so like OMG i had to do something different
<mapps> O_o
<MooDoo> mapps: O M G ;)
<mapps> :D
<MooDoo> Whens Ubuntu 14.04 released then ;)
 * MooDoo ducks and runs
<mapps> lol
<Myrtti> MooDoo: you've dropped your identification btw.
<MooDoo> thanks Myrtti
<MooDoo> :)
<mapps> i hope jj is on
<MooDoo> mapps: get out now
<MooDoo> ;)
<mapps> lol
<mapps> you know what i mean:D
<mapps> its so good
<jussi> mapps: how are holiday plans going?
<mapps> gah it isnt on
<mapps> waiting for my friend to give me dates
<mapps> keep asking but he hasnt said
<mapps> :(
<MooDoo> omg why did I join #ubuntu-release-party lol
<mapps> LOL
<mapps> that bad?
<daftykins> this is MooDoo right now: @_@
<mapps> shouldve got 2 sandwiches
<mapps> 1 fo when i get up
<mapps> gah
<mapps> next time..i wasnt sure i'd like it
<daftykins> you know it's tough times when you're snacking on what was meant to be the next meal
<MooDoo> daftykins: I use irssi so my channel numbers are light when there is a conversation I just don't know which one to read first lol
<mapps> heh
<mapps> well
<mapps> going out tonight
<mapps> so gotta have lotsa food first
<mapps> dont wanna get too drunk..and i haveform
<mapps> like every day of the last 10 years;p
<daftykins> MooDoo: yeah same, i just dance across them playing 'whack-a-mole'
<mapps> hopefully going Stoke v Spurs next saturday
<mapps> il be cheering spurs on..in the stoke end tho
<mapps> lol
<jussi> mapps: good results for arsenal and liverpool last night...
<mapps> yea
<mapps> saw 2-2 city..i had radio on no pics:(
<mapps> no pics anywhere afaik
<mapps> i watched barca v real and the palace game
<jussi> palace did well...
<mapps> while doing #'work'
<mapps> ;)
<mapps> thats why ils tuggle in a normal job
<mapps> im doing my job and watching the barca game..and palace and tennis
<mapps> and iy still feels like im working
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> well, i'm gonna run away from your football talk :P later all \o
<mapps> cya mate
<mapps> i was watching baseball too:P
<mapps> for my actual work
<daftykins> i'll leave you with a fine picture of Guernsey from the air that i just happened to dig up
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6pp5eqwwlwhyn5/IMG_20120308_180051.jpg
<daftykins> nothing like seeing your entire home in one view
<MooDoo> daftykins: I'm saving for a quad copter and with my go pro I'll do the same one day for my house :D lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: with a proper gimbal mount? :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: no can't afford that one lol going for the static mount one lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: then the images will be shaky
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: the quadcopters with proper gimbals are getting cheaper though
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: yeah probably, I need to do a bit more research, but I'm looking at the dji phantoms.
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: that's what the guys at tested.com were raving about
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://www.tested.com/tech/460662-testing-dji-phantom-vision-quadcopter-drone/
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: yeah i'd love that one but can't afford it, so thinking about the phantom 2
<MartijnVdS>  http://xkcd.com/941/
<MooDoo> fab lol
<bashrc_> morning all.  Is it out yet?
<MartijnVdS> oh is it that day? :)
<bashrc> I think so
<MooDoo> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> #isitoutyet?
<MartijnVdS> every time you ask, it gets delayed another 5 mintues
 * nigelb sets +b on TheOpenSourcerer 
<nigelb> Mornin'
<bashrc> when is H-hour?
 * MooDoo slaps TheOpenSourcerer ;) lol
<SuperMatt> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> happy release day
<SuperMatt> jynx
<diplo> :P
<SuperMatt> I hope everyone is looking forward to this afternoon
<SuperMatt> who's coming tonight
<diplo> I won't be :(
<diplo> I'm looking forward to this afternoon meaning a long weekend :P
<TrustyMatt> I'm in work tomorrow
<TrustyMatt> because some idiot has to cover
<MooDoo> TrustyMatt: yeah same for us here, but luckily it's all volunteered.
<MooDoo> TrustyMatt: where you work TrustyMatt ?
<TrustyMatt> where do *I* work? Rackspace!
<MartijnVdS> why else would he be trusty? ;)
<TrustyMatt> I thought everyone knew I worked as a racker
<MartijnVdS> it's a racket
<MooDoo> TrustyMatt = supermatt?
<TrustyMatt> yup yup
<MooDoo> TrustyMatt: that's why people are getting confused :p
<TrustyMatt> I changed the name mot 7 minutes ago
<TrustyMatt> *not
 * MooDoo missed that lol
<TrustyMatt> I kinda figured people would quickly work it out
<TrustyMatt> considering it's trusty day and all
<MooDoo> TrustyMatt: ah it all clicks into place, I need more coffee :D
<MooDoo> TrustyMatt: still getting kicked with heartbleed?
<TrustyMatt> naw, not any more
<TrustyMatt> it seems to have subsided
<MartijnVdS> I bet a load of people still haven't fixed their certs though
<MooDoo> hell of a lot.
<MartijnVdS> because security? meh!
<TrustyMatt> it's a tricky one to evaluate
<MooDoo> at the end of the day for anyone that uses openssl, it's upgrade, reboot, re-issue certs. sorted lol
<TrustyMatt> for my site, I'm not going to bother because it's only my details that can be compromised, but if you're an enterprise site, you gotta change yo' certs
<MartijnVdS> just assume it's broken and get new software & certs. Yes it's a big hassle
<MartijnVdS> re-issue of my certs was free.
<TrustyMatt> yeah, fo' sure
<MooDoo> yeah they should be free
<TrustyMatt> they're free for rackspace customers, so I assume they're free everywhere
<TrustyMatt> after all, you don't have to do all the identity stuff the second time around
<MooDoo> hello JamesTait smittix
<MooDoo> JamesTait: happy ubuntu release day :p
<smittix> Morning!
<TrustyMatt> morning guys
<smittix> Feels like christmas
<smittix> heh
<TrustyMatt> because you're getting another free OS today?
<smittix> Yeah
<smittix> :D
<nigelb> 30
<nigelb> gah
<TrustyMatt> it'll probably be fun tomorrow when new customers start running trusty cloud servers
<TrustyMatt> I'm gonna spin up a couple and migrate stuff
<nigelb> Morning JamesTait, Happy Almost Weekend Day :)
<JamesTait> nigelb, Almost Holiday Day for me. ;)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Not yet! It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<bashrc> when is H-hour?
<bigcalm> That's anybody's guess
<bashrc> aha
<bigcalm> What is H-hour? :)
<nigelb> JamesTait: heh
<bashrc> the time of the release
<bigcalm> Ah, not happy hour then
<bashrc> or... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-hour_%28D-day%29
<bigcalm> 'blink' was just updated on my workstation
<bigcalm> All I could think of was: don't
<codecowboy> What do people use for building a simple network topology diagram? I want a simple tool to create a diagram of our various servers for new starters
<davmor2> Morning all
<codecowboy> morning
<MartijnVdS> codecowboy: I use inkscape
<codecowboy> MartijnVdS does it have a library of symbols with servers etc?
<MartijnVdS> codecowboy: I think it has a few, and you can get more from openclipart
<codecowboy> I think I used gliffy before and just found draw.io
<MartijnVdS> http://asciiflow.com/ :P
<MartijnVdS> codecowboy: you could use "dot" (graphviz) if you're feeling adventurous ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> codecowboy: libreoffice draw does some visio like connector stuff.
<codecowboy> MartijnVdS thanks. phpdocumentor uses that to make the class diagrams I think
<codecowboy> TheOpenSourcerer thanks
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> czajkowski: morning
<MooDoo> AlanBell: meeting go ok when I left last night?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo czajkowski
<czajkowski> how's everyone today?
<TheOpenSourcerer> ticketyboo :-D
<AlanBell> MooDoo: yeah, but not enough people for decision making, will do that today with luck
<czajkowski> 210 in my inbox
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> not going to be a fun day at all
<TheOpenSourcerer> pah - lightweight.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I had ~700 emails to deal with yesterday
<TheOpenSourcerer> Only went away for 10 days :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> And was not off-grid entirely
<bashrc> is it all spam?
<MartijnVdS>  is it all business opportunities?
<czajkowski> bashrc: nope
<czajkowski> all work
<czajkowski> 4 day weekend \o/
<bashrc> hah.  that's why people should use irc more at work rather than email
<TheOpenSourcerer> This weekend I will mostly building my Polytunnel
<popey> Mmorning
<popey> -m
<bashrc> for ephemeral stuff just use irc
<bigcalm> codecowboy: try dia
<bashrc> this weekend I'll install 14.04
<bigcalm> Why wait? :D
<czajkowski> no release party :(
<TrustyMatt> nothing confirmed yet, no, but that doesn't mean there won't be something
<czajkowski> grr fox is back >:(
 * JamesTait has been running Trusty for 2 months today. \o/
<JamesTait> czajkowski, what does the fox say?
<TheOpenSourcerer> nom nom.
<JamesTait> Eating the chickens? :(
<czajkowski> been tormenting them this morning
<czajkowski> put it's face up against the run and wound up one of the hens
<czajkowski> warm weather I guess bringing them out
<TheOpenSourcerer> Here's a question... I want to do some [ahem] kiddy content filtering at home. I have a small server with 2 nics. Am thinking Squid/Dans Guardian. I can't find any decent howtos on the interwebs that aren't either a) really old, or b) not what I need. What do other peeps do?
<MartijnVdS> not have kids :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bit late for that.
<TheOpenSourcerer> My router (BT Homehub) has the dns hardcoded so I can't even just use OpenDNS
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: opendns?
<MooDoo> ah sorry lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> The solution needs to cater for PCs, ipods, pads etc...
<MartijnVdS> Don't UK ISPs have kiddie filters anyway?
<MooDoo> not quite yet
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, but I do not have control then.
<MooDoo> I think i might have to start using opendns.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: can you disable the router's DHCP server and run your own internally that gives out the OpenDNS family-friendly one?
<TheOpenSourcerer> dwatkins: This might be a possibility yes.
<dwatkins> I have a Linksys router with the Tomato firmware as my DHCP server and secondary wifi router, works well.
<dwatkins> You can set the SSID and wifi password the same on both, and have devices seamlessly move between them.
<TheOpenSourcerer> So then on my little server, should I route or bridge between eth0 and eth1
<dwatkins> (my flat has thick walls)
<dwatkins> you could bridge, that way everything would be on the same network - routing would result in a separate subnet, and re-encapsulation (therefore probably lower efficiency)
<MartijnVdS> I have a TP-Link 4300 router connected to my fibre
<MartijnVdS> it does the PPPoE and some VLAN stuff
<MartijnVdS> yay openwrt ;)
<dwatkins> I use the ISP-provided Netgear router as the internet-facing device, but it just routes and forwards a couple ports
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/news/cio-uk-tax-authority-open-source-massively-cost-effective
<dwatkins> AlanBell recently linked to an article about the Chromebook becoming more and more popular, too: http://www.zdnet.com/linux-is-about-to-take-over-the-desktop-but-not-like-you-think-it-will-7000028417/
<dwatkins> Since so many tools are web-based, I can see this being more likely for a lot of people who don't rely on proprietary software.
<popey> uh
<popey> the chromebook is almost entirely proprietary software
<popey> i think maybe you mean "windows software" â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: is it that much different from Chromium OS?
<popey> i was more alluding to the webservices being proprietary
<MartijnVdS> ah, yes. they are. Unless you run your own.
<popey> the box itself is pretty useless without google and 3rd party apps
<popey> indeed
<AlanBell> I like the chromebook, I think it is for people who don't rely on local software
<AlanBell> the thing is pretty locked down black box proprietary though
<dwatkins> oh, I thought the Chromebook was mostly a browser.
<AlanBell> it is
<AlanBell> but the user accounts are googley and it is more integrated with googley cloud stuff than anything else
<AlanBell> but, if what you want is a decent webkit browser that just works and nothing else at all matters ever, then it is OK
<AlanBell> also, they have flash on ARM which basically works fine
<dwatkins> I'm still puzzled as to why the OLPC failed. That would have been a really nice laptop for all sorts of reasons.
<AlanBell> it was too slow, bit too fiddly and the software never got good
<AlanBell> but it didn't entirely fail
<dwatkins> ah ok
<dwatkins> it sounded pretty neat in theory
<TrustyMatt> https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10157166_10153998139085464_1615453754993821740_n.jpg finally got my racker flag!
<SuperTrustyRacke> dammit
<SuperTrustyMatt> that'll do
<bigcalm> I keep reading it as SuperRusty
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No bigcalm, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: it's easy enough to get the lastest and greatest, just type yum upgrade and the shell :p
<bigcalm> Heh
<dwatkins> The program 'yum' is currently not installed.... (yeah, I'm running Ubuntu, not Fedora ;) )
<popey> "greatest"
<SuperTrustyMatt> popey: can you be the man that decides what pub we go to?
<popey> Nope. I am not in london.
<popey> So, let the community decide!
<SuperTrustyMatt> darning
<SuperTrustyMatt> *darnit
<SuperTrustyMatt> that was the weirdest typo
<MooDoo> popey: i was teasing obviously :)
<SuperTrustyMatt> I could understand if I was on a phone...
<MooDoo> dwatkins: try sudo apt-get install yum please, pretty please, it's a new command ;)
<scotth-12> what time is release
<popey> we dont specify a time
<popey> never have
<jussi> my day just got exponentially better
<popey> except 10/10
<popey> jussi: cake?
<bigcalm> It's whenever you think it isn't
<jussi> popey: the cake is a lie, you should know that
<popey> true
<bigcalm> A tasty lie
<jussi> but no, I just "acquired" a bounty. Life is good.
<bigcalm> A taste of paradise eh?
<popey> mmmm coconut
<jussi> a bounty, plus a bottle of "sima" (mead, non alcoholic).
<bigcalm> Who did you pinch them off?
<jussi> bigcalm: I exchanged them!
<jussi> for some shiny things...
<scotth-12> set my update to display immediately
<popey> scotth-12: what release are you on at the moment?
<scotth-12> 13.04
<popey> I'd upgrade now, before the rush later â»
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No bigcalm, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<bigcalm> Boo
<bigcalm> Compressing 16gb mysql dump takes its time and is quite boring
<JamesTait> It's funny, because there's a big banner on www.ubuntu.com touting "Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, with OpenStack", but 14.04 isn't available yet. :)
<JamesTait> The press release says 14.04 "is the platform for scale" and "is Ubuntu's third LTS release", but then goes on to say it "will be released on 17th April 2014".
<jussi> JamesTait: always the same...
<JamesTait> Slightly inconsistent.
<jussi> every release, a few hours before
<bashrc> I don't want scale
 * jussi scales bashrc
<bashrc> :(
<JamesTait> bashrc, me neither, it stops my kettle from working and gets in my tea.
<bashrc> its hard to remove
<scotth-12> i got 3 computers to do and 6 laptop to do so going to download iso to 2 dvd and install them like that instead of using network boot
<Dave2> Third LTS? 5th, surely.
<popey> 4th?
<popey> 6.06 was the first
<Dave2> oh, LTS CLOUD
<popey> 6, 8, 10, 12, 14
<popey> oh, i cant count
<Dave2> hah
<dwatkins> I used to have problems with scale until I moved to Scotland.
<scotth-12> i wonder if they have sorted out the amd crystal control center out
<scotth-12> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/contribute/?version=14.04.4&architecture=amd64
<shauno> 04.4 ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> still beta 2 http://releases.ubuntu.com/14.04/
<scotth-12> no just got the link ready
<scotth-12> for clicking
<bigcalm> Is there any way to estimate the size for a compressed file base upon its content type?
<awilkins> Text : about 90%
<awilkins> Video : about 0%
<awilkins> (size savings)
<scotth-12> this link i reccon it going to be http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/releases.ubuntu.com/14.04.0/ubuntu-14.04.0-desktop-amd64.iso
<davmor2> awilkins: videos will compress by about 5%-20% depending on format
<awilkins> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No awilkins, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<bigcalm> This is a 15.4GB mysql dump. The compressed file is currently 128MB and rising
<bigcalm> At 90%, that might mean a 1.54GB file?
<scotth-12> bigcalm what you looking at to see that
<bigcalm> ls -l
<bigcalm> Well, -lh
<scotth-12> kl
<bigcalm> kl?
<awilkins> bigcalm, Depends on the homogeneity of the data
<awilkins> bigcalm, 10% is for English text, executable files, etc
<awilkins> May squish smaller if it's pretty homogenous
<awilkins> And some of the compression parameters
<bigcalm> I'm thinking it would have been quicker to scp this 15.4GB file rather than compress it
<shauno> scp -C ?
<nigelb> 28
<TheOpenSourcerer> 16
<JamesTait> 42
<MooDoo> 98?
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's Numberwang!
<MooDoo> lol
<nigelb> bag
<nigelb> bah
<brobostigon> 42 :)
<Dan_on_Holiday> Hello all. Just moved Father-in-Law from Win XP to Lubuntu but have a problem. If I have a .deb of a printer driver with a dependency on libtiff4, what do I need to do to install it in Lubuntu 14.04, given that libtiff4 is no longer in the repos..? Ta.
<popey> hello Dan_on_Holiday
<Dan_on_Holiday> hi popey
<popey> libtiff4 is in ubuntu 14.04
<popey> $ apt-cache search libtiff4
<popey> libtiff4-dev - Tag Image File Format library (TIFF), transitional package
<popey> libtiff4 - Tag Image File Format (TIFF) library (old version)
<Dan_on_Holiday> hmmm... not what it said to me yesterday.. let me have another go!
<popey> hit it with a stick, that helps
<MooDoo> it's got to be a big one so that it gets scared thought
<Dan_on_Holiday> Package libtiff4 is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source  E: Package 'libtiff4' has no installation candidate
<zleap> hello
<popey> Dan_on_Holiday: hmm, i have it installed here...
<popey> seems I have it from a previous release maybe
<zleap> i am waiting for the website to be updated so I can download 14.04
<popey> Dan_on_Holiday: you could get the deb from packages.ubuntu.com/saucy/libtiff4 ?
<Myrtti> I wish I was a cat
<Dan_on_Holiday> Oooh. New territory...  Learning all the time :)
<popey> Dan_on_Holiday: so click either amd64 or i386 on that page, at the bottom
<popey> then the mirror links on the resulting page will be .debs you can download and probably install with "sudo dpkg -i foo.deb"
<Dan_on_Holiday> OK. Will do. Thanks...
 * Dan_on_Holiday owes popey several pints now. Only ever pop in here when I'm stuck!
<zleap> will check site later
<zleap> cya
<Dan_on_Holiday> seemed to work. Remind me how I check if it's installed?
<popey> hehe
<popey> apt-cache policy libtiff4
<popey> will tell you version etc
<Dan_on_Holiday> Thanks. It's there. And printer driver install script has worked too. yay!
<popey> huzzah
<popey> hope it all works out
<Dan_on_Holiday> Thanks. Have to train father-in-law in new workflow now. That'll be tricky...
<TheOpenSourcerer> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No TheOpenSourcerer, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<Dan_on_Holiday> Cheers tho!
<MooDoo> someone owes popey a beer on the rat :)
<Dan_on_Holiday> Let me know when you're visiting Mr S on the Isle of Man next, and I'll buy you a beer.
<popey> \o/ Beer!
<Dan_on_Holiday> :)
 * Dan_on_Holiday waves and exits
<popey> Dan_on_Holiday: I rarely get over there. Malta is the next Island to visit
<TheOpenSourcerer> Malta - yawn.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Most miserable peeps I've ever met.
<Dan_on_Holiday> popey: Fair enough. I'm on hols in London Mon-Thu next week...
<TheOpenSourcerer> And my missus wouldn't let me eat/order baby donkey
<Dan_on_Holiday> TheOpenSourcerer: Baby Donkey sounds much more exotic than IoM national dish of chips, cheese & gravy !
<Dan_on_Holiday> right must go and finish tweaking this install... Thanks all
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: beats some of the places we usually go
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dan_on_Holiday: Indeed, but my wife being a vegetarian and having gown up with Donkey's rather took umbrage at the idea :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh sorry - an aberrant apostrpphe.
<dwatkins> Today I learned a new word, thanks TheOpenSourcerer.
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - seems to work quite nicely with apostrophe I think.
<dwatkins> alliteration, yes
<SuperTrustyMatt> *sigh* still no word on the release party
<MooDoo> SuperTrustyMatt: you creating one then?  perhaps you can do a g+ hangout party ;)
<SuperTrustyMatt> well, I've emailed ubuntu-uk and no one has come back with any pub suggestions
<SuperTrustyMatt> I wonder if I can get a hold of someone from canonical
<popey> this is normal
<popey> hello, i am someone from canonical
<SuperTrustyMatt> popey: can you ask someone, somewhere in canonical to pick a pub for tonight?
<popey> the way you organise things is a) organise it, b) tell people where it will be
<popey> no
<popey> you pick one â»
<SuperTrustyMatt> would you pass the word to canonical staff?
<popey> then make a thing on loco.ubuntu.com and you're done.
<popey> i can, yes.
<SuperTrustyMatt> thanks
<popey> share the loco.ubuntu.com thing about a bit
<SuperTrustyMatt> calling a few pubs
<MooDoo> wow ubuntu-release-party is manic, any one have any patience there......nope :D
<SuperTrustyMatt> popey: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2789-trusty-release-party/
<ali1234> wait the release is today?
<MooDoo> ali1234: 0_o
<SuperTrustyMatt> I've picked the lord nelson from 7 tonight because I could book a table
<popey> /81/41]
<popey> bah!
<MartijnVdS> password reset time ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No TheOpenSourcerer, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<MartijnVdS> .. and another 5 minute delay
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> If we keep asking then we could force a delay until tomorrow ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> A holiday in the UK - so it would slip into next week.
<MooDoo> tuesday at the lest
<MooDoo> leaset
<bashrc> is it out yet?
<awilkins> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No awilkins, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<awilkins> Torrents are of course, the preferred downloady thing
<awilkins> Booo, London-centric release party
<awilkins> Where's the Manchester one?
<TheOpenSourcerer> create one awilkins
<TheOpenSourcerer> Although it's probably  a bit late now.
 * awilkins checks the usual suspects
<awilkins> Will just go to the Python user group and insist they have an Ubuntu party instead
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders about a launch party in his local tonight just for me ;-)
 * awilkins may just have a quiet G&T at home
<bigcalm> 254MB and still compressing
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not sure Mrs TheOpenSourcerer will let me out again... Went to the pub last night too. :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> And just spent loads on a very nice holiday
<bashrc> I think the canonical offices are in London
<bashrc> but I would be up for a Manchester release party
<ali1234> what's the name of that tool that lets you control windows from the command line? like minimize/maximize/positioning etc?
<ali1234> wmctrl
<MartijnVdS> devilspie
<ali1234> that also looks cool
<awilkins> Opinion gathering : MITM-attacking your employees HTTPS connections at the proxy - acceptible?
<ali1234> depends on the company
<ali1234> if you are a bank? sure
<awilkins> Government org, but not high-security
<ali1234> definitions of high-security differ. i would say yes for government
<MartijnVdS> never acceptable imho
<MartijnVdS> if you can't trust your employees with internet, don't give them access to it at all
<awilkins> IMHO it introduces a larger security risk
<ali1234> for employees it does
<awilkins> For employer too
<awilkins> Because the sysadmin can read all your authentication information
<awilkins> And can thus impersonate users
<dwatkins> I think in some countries, MITM-type snooping is illegal (German, probably)
<dwatkins> Sometimes I get calls about reactivating accounts, German customers can't just open an ex-employee's mailbox for legal reasons
<TheOpenSourcerer> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No TheOpenSourcerer, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<dwatkins> are we nearly there yet?
<dwatkins> are we nearly there yet?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: No, they're skipping the release.
<MooDoo> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1411185242486356&set=a.1382444232027124.1073741829.100007846805553&type=1&theater
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: out of spite.
<petee> Are the AWS AMIâs normally released at the same time as the ISOâs?
<bigcalm> Is there a CLI command that'll give disk space usage?
<awilkins> df
<MartijnVdS> du -sh some_Dir
<awilkins> df -h if you want it more human
<bigcalm> Sorry, I meant where space has been used
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: du -sh *
<bigcalm> Hummz, okay
<bigcalm> Actually, du -sh * will do what I need.
<bigcalm> Ta MartijnVdS
<bigcalm> Yay, just freed 9 gig on this server
<bigcalm> Hope my boss didn't need those files
<awilkins> I cleared 270GB off a server the other day with a single shell command
<MartijnVdS> 9G that's not a lot
<awilkins> It was very satisfying
<awilkins> Went from 95% disk usage to 30%
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: it was in one file
<bigcalm> I'm still trying to free space
 * MooDoo is getting frustrated in ubuntu-release-party so I'm not going in there again
<MooDoo> ner ner ner ner ner
<bigcalm> What will change between last night's `sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade` and the release this afternoon?
<awilkins> Nominally, not much
<awilkins> Everything should have been frozen for weeks, right?
<SuperTrustyMatt> popey: did you manage to send around this link? http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2789-trusty-release-party/
<SuperTrustyMatt> at the moment I'm the only one going :(
<popey> ah, didnt see it.
<SuperTrustyMatt> I did send it out to ubuntu-uk
 * popey does now
<SuperTrustyMatt> thanks!
<SuperTrustyMatt> There's a table booked at the Lord Nelson under my name
<zleap> hello
<SuperTrustyMatt> 'lo
<zleap> is there an ETA for 14.04
<zleap> ?
<SuperTrustyMatt> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No SuperTrustyMatt, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<SuperTrustyMatt> zleap: I hope that helps
<zleap> thanks
<MooDoo> SuperTrustyMatt: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1411185242486356&set=a.1382444232027124.1073741829.100007846805553&type=1&theater
<zleap> i take it other related stuff like xubuntu is co-ordinated for simultaneous release
<zleap> as lubuntu 14.04 isn't out either yet
<SuperTrustyMatt> more or less, yes
<zleap> ok
<SuperTrustyMatt> there are no releases until they're all ready
<bigcalm> Uploading at 350K/s :( I do look forward to moving house and getting FTTC
<TheOpenSourcerer> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No TheOpenSourcerer, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<MartijnVdS> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No MartijnVdS, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<SuperTrustyMatt> TheOpenSourcerer: are you coming tonight?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope. Sorry - I have a date with my GP's wife.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have to collect my 96 chilli plants she has kindly looked after for me whilst I was on holiday.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some of them looked like this when I went away: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-G9mULXGANqE/Uz-vJtUB7FI/AAAAAAAAPE8/q0lzg3N9Vbc/w1182-h887-no/20140405_081958.jpg
<dv81> why does ubuntu log irc?
<popey> why not?
<zleap> dv81, probably so people can search logs for answers to questions and or produce faqs
<dv81> lul
<zleap> ?
<dv81> such a poor reason
<dv81> so much noise on IRC
<popey> depends which channel.
<MartijnVdS> also to have evidence in case of abuse/harassment/etc.?
<dv81> i dunno, just kinda annoys me
<dv81> loosing ownership of your data
<zleap> dv81, why it hardly gets int eh way of anything does it
<popey> lulz
<popey> its public record
<dv81> which i know, is a bit of an anathema on irc
<dv81> still
<popey> not all channels are logged
<dv81> zleap: google sees everything
<dv81> theres no robots.txt log site
<dv81> on the*
<zleap> i was just suggesting one reason a channel MAY be logged not THE reason
<dv81> :)
<dv81> Funny to think it some dude's job to trawl the logs to put together faqs
<dv81> maybe a 2 year rolling history would be better
<popey> I have trawled logs to extract data before.
<zleap> you can write tools for it
<popey> its also useful for meeting records.
<zleap> or use grep
<zleap> popey, good point
<dv81> "curl -s http://somepage.com | grep whatever"
<dv81> and pastebin it
<dv81> could be annoying lol
<zleap> as popey said goof for producing records of meetings
<zleap> good
<dv81> yeah
<zleap> but sometimes there are specific channels set up for meetings
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet | popey
<lubotu3> popey: No bigcalm, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<bigcalm> Heh, that looks silly
<dv81> i guess ubuntu doesnt agree with the right to be forgotten
<dv81> but it is disclaimed.
<bigcalm> dv81: you don't have to talk in any channel that is recorded
<zleap> i would guess that if you go in to a meeting you are there FOR the meeting and just like with real world meetings you have someone takes minutes
 * davmor2 drives over to bigcalm slaps him with a kipper and drives back
<zleap> dv81, probably in the freenode terms somewhere
<bigcalm> davmor2: you could have brought some food with you. Slacker
<davmor2> I did I left the kipper
<bigcalm> Nice
<zleap> lol
<dv81> all true.
<popey> You also don't have to use your real name
<dv81> true
<dv81> only sane option really
<zleap>  /me wonders if GCHQ and the NSA have access to irc logs
<bigcalm> It's plain text, no reason why they shouldn't
<ali1234> why do you think there are so many idlers on every channel?
<JamesTait> ali1234, who are you calling idle? :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: if the cap fits
<zleap> exactly so if they want, they can log it, here,  regardless of if the room is logged at the server level
 * popey notes davmor2 is probably the only one here currently wearing a cap
 * JamesTait gets popcorn
<ali1234> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No ali1234, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<zleap> so how much will a ubuntu tablet set me back
<popey> they dont exist yet, so save your money â»
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i know theya re not out yet, but maybe there is some sort of speculation as to cost
<SuperTrustyMatt> I'm still the only person going tonight :'(
<davmor2> popey: no I only wear a cap out indoors I my costa rica hat that elopio brought us http://davmor2.co.uk/~davmor2/costa-rica.jpg
<popey> hehe
<popey> SuperTrustyMatt: was passed round at work
<SuperTrustyMatt> thanks dude
<popey> SuperTrustyMatt: often times people don't bother signing up, but just arrive
<dv81> zleap: ebay a first edition Nexus 7, i guess
<zleap> ok
<davmor2> popey: or my cyberman headset :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: you look like you need some sleep
<davmor2> popey: that wasn't a horrible picture considering it was on UT on the N4 face side camera
<popey> indeed
<popey> zleap: nope, dont do that
<popey> first edition nexus 7 not supported
<davmor2> bigcalm: midnight is a good time to knock off work right
<bigcalm> The guys woulnd't let me work at the LUG last night
<zleap> popey, i just looked at the spec requirements
<popey> nexus 4, nexus 7 (2013) and nexus 10 are devices we currently support
<SuperTrustyMatt> popey: that's all right then :)
<SuperTrustyMatt> if no one is there, I'll just go straight home cos it's on my way
<bigcalm> SuperTrustyMatt: so you're expecting others to be there before you are?
<zleap> popey, so is the idea to install ubuntu on these devices and or buy pre-installed
<bigcalm> Has release ever been so late in the day?
<popey> at the moment you can install on those devices
<popey> i used to have a doc somewhere with all the release times in UTC listed
<zleap> ok
<TheOpenSourcerer> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No TheOpenSourcerer, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<locodir-user> https://www.facebook.com/system76
<xaro> Hey all
<SuperTrustyMatt> the answer is probably no, not yet
<bigcalm> :)
<SuperTrustyMatt> bigcalm: I'm only expecting to be like 15 minutes late ;)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/qfkhek27kvub51f/IMG_20140417_162156.jpg
<daftykins> mmm tidy desk
<philwyett> You can lookup status on QA for the final here. http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/314/builds
<bigcalm> daftykins: will it last?
<daftykins> yes!
<daftykins> :D
<bigcalm> daftykins: I'd find it uncomfortable to look at an angle all day long
<SuperTrustyMatt> daftykins: snap on the speakers
<SuperTrustyMatt> my desk at work is quite tidy because we don't deal with much paper here at rackspace
<daftykins> i originally thought that but you actually don't notice because it's so subtle
<daftykins> plus you rotate the chair
<bigcalm> I don't need to re-post my mess :)
<daftykins> ooh please do
<SuperTrustyMatt> bigcalm: re-has it ever been release so late in the day, I think quantal was released at 17:30
<daftykins> what i originally thought was that gaming would be really odd, since it'd be up on one screen mainly of course
<bashrc> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No bashrc, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<bigcalm> daftykins: taken at xmas time just after my yearly tidy and vacuum: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/414480294205734912
<bigcalm> Doesn't look so bad that day
<bigcalm> Looking at the desktop background, I had booted into Windows. I guess to play games
<daftykins> no way a samsung 193P ?!
<bigcalm> A what?
<daftykins> ah no LG something or other
<bigcalm> Heh
<daftykins> that LCD in the centre looks a lot like my first ever LCD which is just up on a shelf here :>
<bigcalm> 2 x 22" Dell. 1 x 22" LG. 1 x 15" LG
<daftykins> :>
<zleap> u got 4 monitors ,
<bigcalm> Argos catalogues - best monitor raisers that money can't buy
<bigcalm> zleap: this is true
<zleap> looks good
<daftykins> the big money in displays definitely seems to go into the stands
<zleap> bigcalm, i may try that, good idea use old catalogues
<daftykins> these Dell 2408's crank up quite nicely
<bigcalm> Read that as 2048 and now want to play the game
<bigcalm> And I have also now just lost The Game
<bigcalm> Arse
<bigcalm> To see the usual mess: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/303095108872585216
 * bigcalm notes that his pink highlighter has gone missing
<daftykins> a client has that logitech trackball
<daftykins> so funny when he asks me why it's right clicking instead of left, glance over and he's got his hand placed wrong D:
<zleap> bigcalm, that looks tidy compared to my desk
<bigcalm> This the accompanying blog post: http://www.myrant.net/2013/02/17/multi-screen-with-ubuntu-unity/
<daftykins> haha specs link
<daftykins> classic
<philwyett> 14.04 has hit the release server. ;-)
<zleap> whooo
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No bigcalm, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<zleap> iwill wait a how or so before trying to download
<daftykins> haha, an hour won't change a thing
<daftykins> but just grab the torrent maybe.
<bigcalm> zleap: wait a day or so
<zleap> ok
<bigcalm> zleap: or use a mirror
<bigcalm> zleap: or just enjoy a slow download :)
<zleap> i will use a mirror usually find a uk one
<zleap> i can find that site that lists all the isos, and other bits, inc md5sums and then write a shell script to wget what i want
<zleap> like here http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/xubuntu/releases/13.10/release/
<zleap> ok that is for xubumtu
<zleap> but i can use the urls in the script
 * daftykins jumps on a server 32-bit torrent
<daftykins> that was speedy
<shauno> 32bit?!
<dv81> http://releases.ubuntu.com/14.04/
<dv81> g0g0g0g0g
<daftykins> yeah :D i often VM with sub 1GB RAM so no reason to run 64-bit
<scotth-12> http://releases.ubuntu.com/14.04/
<shauno> I tend to stick with 64bit even in my VMs.  just makes it tidier to use the same spin everywhere
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No bigcalm, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<zleap> ok looks like the download page isn't updated yet
<dv81> http://releases.ubuntu.com/14.04/
<dv81> its out
<dv81> torrenting now
<zleap> is this the right command to check md5sums against isos
<zleap> md5sum -c MD5SUMS
<bigcalm> Love the 1st comment on the press release page "there is no 14.04 yet!!!
<bigcalm> it's just 13.10 and 12.04 available to download and it's about 6am in london
<bigcalm> why???"
<daftykins> zleap: plenty of guides online
<zleap> ok
<bigcalm> zleap: I just do it visually
<zleap> ok
<zleap> bigcalm, yeah i have done it manually too
<zleap> works both ways
<bashrc> it's out http://releases.ubuntu.com/trusty/
<shauno> are we there yet?
<daftykins> yeah i'm seeding desktop right now
<daftykins> and it's just about to finish installing in a VM
<bashrc> I'll download it later
<daftykins> how come? torrents are fine :>
<bashrc> well I'm going to eat, do random stuff and then get back to teh interwebs
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No bigcalm, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<bigcalm> Wow
<bigcalm> I wonder if there will be a release today or not
<daftykins> well, the images are up, whether they're the ones or not
<daftykins> so it doesn't really matter whether the word is official or not
<bigcalm> ubuntu.com hasn't been updated though
<daftykins> that's not much of a distinction though hey? :)
<philwyett> If it's not out. I download then uploaded a gig via torrent of something that thinks it's the 64 bit 14.04 desktop. ;-)
<daftykins> :D
<popey> plenty of time â»
<daftykins> we have all... the time... in the world ~
<bashrc> Ubuntu Y U no out?
<daftykins> because you asked
<daftykins> :(
<davmor2> bashrc: cause it isn't durrrr
<davmor2> philwyett: but it isn't out yet
<ging_> when you say it's not out yet does that mean it's no in the repos but you can download the iso ?
<daftykins> it's out now
<ging> if not i have no idea what i am downloading
<ging> oh you already said that
<ging> the images are up
<ging> i guess they could get yanked and replaced with newer ones
<philwyett> davmor2: Things are out when my Mrs has it installed on her laptop and is already moaning about a 'feature'. ;-)
<davmor2> philwyett: No really it isn't :D
<philwyett> davmor2: Cool. Can someone change the user accounts gui to stop saying passwords for accounts are not good enough and won't let you continue. ;-)
<davmor2> philwyett: Erm no otherwise people put easily crackable passwords and then everyone suffers
<daftykins> philwyett: you'll have to stop using 'password' !
<philwyett> :-)
 * popey looks at dutchie with his easily crackable password on ubuntu uk wordpress instance leading to viagra spam â¹
<ging> how do you know it's not his true interests?
<MartijnVdS> http://opensslrampage.org/
 * philwyett grabs the latest podcast. This one has cake.
<awilkins> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Yes it is out! Download at www.ubuntu.com/download
<popey> cake!
<ging> !cake
<ging> why doesn't it say the cake is a lie like in another channel i'm in?
<philwyett> Bots here know which side their cake is creamed on.
<ging> the middle?
<davmor2> ging: because the cake on a party channel is true not lie :P
<AlanBell> !cake-#ubuntu-offtopic
<lubotu3> The cake is a !pie!
<AlanBell> !pie-#ubuntu-offtopic
<lubotu3> PIE PIE PIE, mmm PI PI PI http://ikanobori.jp/storage/pi_e.jpg or http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3663/3358637054_9f756a3615.jpg
<AlanBell> gosh
<daftykins> i think i picked an ideal weekend to go away.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Raspberry Pi? ;)
<ging> how can the cake be a pie? if it's a pie then it's not a cake
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: how's that project progressing? :)
<ging> unless it's made by pringles or something and they are trying to dodge tax
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: slowly, like everything I have been trying to do for the last few months :(
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: :(
<AlanBell> going to grab the trusty archives now and work on it this weekend
<davmor2> popey: oh nice second part of broken sword got release today they timed it to coincide with the big release :)
<popey> davmor2: well thats the weekend sorted â»
<bashrc> installed 14.04!
<bashrc> I notice that the global menu remains the default
<davmor2> popey: no I know what my weekend is going to entail and fun doesn't enter into it :(
<popey> hope that goes okay dude.
<bashrc> so by default you still have to play the "which window does this menu belong to?" game
<popey> bashrc: so turn it off?
<bashrc> yes I just have
<popey> problem gone..
<bashrc> it is nice to have the menus back where they belong
<popey> +1
<popey> makes sloppy focus work well too
<bashrc> I'm wondering how to get the minimize on click behavior
<popey> which I *love*
<popey> install ccsm
<popey> its an option in there
<bashrc> ok
<bashrc> ccsm?
<AlanBell> compiz-config-settingsmanager
<bashrc> ah
<AlanBell> possibly different hyphen configuration
<AlanBell> !ccsm
<AlanBell> !info ccsm
<lubotu3> Package ccsm does not exist in saucy
<AlanBell> ooh, that needs tweaking
<popey> !info compizconfig-settings-manager
<lubotu3> compizconfig-settings-manager (source: compiz): Compiz configuration settings manager. In component universe, is extra. Version 1:0.9.10+13.10.20131011-0ubuntu1 (saucy), package size 1080 kB, installed size 4491 kB
<bashrc> woohoo it worked
<bashrc> I think that minimise behavior should be there by default.  Makes it easy to hide applications you're not currently using
<SuperEngineer> Anyone found any probs with Steam under 14.04?
 * SuperEngineer crosses fingers - hopes for same answer as expected... "nope"
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: no probs here
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: been playing FTL for hours this week ;)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: whoopee
<SuperEngineer> :)
<MartijnVdS> FTL is such awesome
<mapps> hm
<mapps> how can i mount a linux dir on my windows machine
<MartijnVdS> mapps: using the samba server on the linux machine
<jpds> MartijnVdS: Not if they're the same machine.
<mapps> ah ok i dont need anything special on windows then
<MartijnVdS> jpds: unless one of them's a VM ;)
<MartijnVdS> (or both)
<diddledan> `sudo do-release-upgrade` isn't showing the new version as stable yet
<diddledan> maybe it's 'cos I've got saucy updates pending
<diddledan> `sudo apt-get upgrade`
<bigcalm> Am I missing something, or is it not recommended to upgrade 13.10 to 14.04 yet?
<bigcalm> I've had to run `update-manager -d` to get it to see 14.04. But doing so greets me with "Welcome to the Ubuntu 'Trusty Tahr' development release"
<diddledan> bigcalm: I'm seeing the same
<Laney> That isn't enabled yet
<Laney> Users of Ubuntu 12.10 and 13.10 will be offered an automatic upgrade to
<Laney> 14.04 LTS via Update Manager shortly. Users of 12.04 LTS will be
<Laney> offered the automatic upgrade when 14.04.1 LTS is released, which is
<Laney> scheduled for July 24th.
<diddledan> Laney: is there any idea how long the delay will be for 13.10 update manager to enable the upgrade path?
<Laney> Soon
<diddledan> heh
<diddledan> "how long is a piece of string?" :-p
<Laney> A pretty short string
<Laney> Extra mirrors are being brought up before doing that
<diddledan> still it's a crazy question of mine that doesn't really have a finite answer I would guess
<diddledan> "when it's ready" would be appropriate of an answer
<Laney> When the people doing the things finish doing the things
<diddledan> lol
<Laney> Not being a person it's hard to say
<Laney> :(
 * Laney barks
<diddledan> I hate that, too, not being a person
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Yes, it's out! Download at http://www.ubuntu.com/download | Release announcement at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2014-April/000182.html
<bigcalm> :|
<Laney> arf arf
<bigcalm> Laney: tomorow, weekend, next week?
<Laney> It's being worked on now
 * bigcalm becomes unreasonably demanding for no reason
<bigcalm> Maybe I'm just bored
<Laney> Ruddy EDF emailed me to tell me to log in and read a 'secure message' but it's not there
 * Laney charges them for the time wasted
<daftykins> Laney: ooh-err, legit email? didn't follow links in it? D:
<Laney> no
<Laney> I went to the browser and opened up my.edf-energy.com
<Laney> the subject was "Sorry you're leaving us" which is a true fact so I believe it's real
<markie-> 99/exit
<dutchie> popey: er
<dutchie> don't even recall having an account on that
<szymon_g> hi
<szymon_g> if I wanna install ubuntu on the computer with uefi on, do I have to download version for mac or will the normal 64 bit version suffice?
<diddledan> szymon_g: I believe the mac version is tailored to older broken mac efi implementations - the normal release should be fine for a pc (non-mac)
<diddledan> most modern macs can work on the normal release now, too afaik
<szymon_g> thanks, diddledan. what's the easiest idiot-proof way to burn an image on usb stick (in the way it would work in already mentioned mode)?
<daftykins> 'dd'
<diddledan> good question - I heard rumour that you can just use dd (if you're on linux already) or rawwritewin (windows)
<szymon_g> daftykins: I meant: for windows
<daftykins> szymon_g: universal USB installer from pendrivelinux.com would be your friendliest approach i'd say
<diddledan> daftykins: does that run in efi-mode?
<daftykins> do you mean, will it create a flash drive that can boot EFI style?
<diddledan> yes
<daftykins> pretty sure all that's relevant for EFI boot is the use of FAT on the flash drive and the presence of the image in /boot upon it
<daftykins> so if it's in the ISO, it's all good
<MooDoo> evening all
<daftykins> hi
<MooDoo> how are you daftykins ?
<daftykins> not bad ty, pretty tired from cleaning a lot though :>
<daftykins> and yu?
<daftykins> +o
<MooDoo> yeah I'm ok :D
<diddledan> and this is why I maintain a decent amount of furr: http://www.smosh.com/smosh-pit/photos/22-comics-explain-what-beards-are-all-about
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-18
<shauno> you're a furry?
<daftykins> always had my suspicions
<shauno> I'm just surprised - it'd be the most normal thing about him
<diddledan> :-)
<shauno> I've only just figured out that 'zero cool', sickboy and sherlock from elementary are the same person.  "mind blown" as the internet goes
<ali1234> johnny lee miller?
<shauno> yeah
<ali1234> remember back in the day when we didn't know what furry was, and http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Amy_the_Squirrel was just  cartoon mascot for the amiga?
<ali1234> we were so innocent back then
<shauno> I'm not sure I can click on 'wikifur'.
<ali1234> don't worry, there are no pictures
<shauno> ah.
<daftykins> so some girl just squatted on my doorstep
<daftykins> i open the door as i heard movement
<daftykins> her bf comes back up, apologises and gives me Â£10
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> lmao
<shauno> so this is why ireland forbids alcohol on good friday?
<daftykins> do they?
<shauno> yup
<diddledan> but it's turdsday until I wake up in the morning/afternoon
<shauno> I have a mediocre "squatting" story
<shauno> the day before I moved to the US, I went out on the town with .. well, everyone.  on the way home I relieved myself somewhere I probably shouldn't have
<daftykins> wait, so IT WAS YOU!
<shauno> mr "copper" stands right beside me while I finish up, and introduces himself.  he gets my number (schawing!) and we go about our ways
<daftykins> odd way of dating sir
<daftykins> ;)
<shauno> 24 hours later I'm on Delta out of heathrow, and forget all about it
<diddledan> shauno: there's a similar story about one of the UK's most wanted criminals
<shauno> eventually daddy#2 shows up to sell the house we move out of, and finds the mail.  I have a notice to appear, a summons, a summary judgement on failure to appear ..
<diddledan> we don't get much crime these days so peeing in the street is a somewhat of the most impressive of crimes
<shauno> and to cap it off, it turns out the doorstep belongs to an ex
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> LOL
<daftykins> shauno: subconsciously you knew you had to do your business RIGHT there
<shauno> possibly the strangest conversation ever was phoning transatlantic to explain to cumbria cty courts why I wasn't going to be appearing any time soon
<daftykins> OI AM SHEEEEER-NO, OI AIN'T COMIN'
<shauno> mostly just a silly story, until I moved back to europe.  and the first time I visited the UK, I was genuinely nervous that the border were going to stop me because I had failure to appear against my name
<ali1234> happened to a friend of mine... for failure to pay TV license though
<diddledan> shauno: you mean we actually let you back in?
<daftykins> so me and the cat are playing charades, the clue is 'an activity'
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x3h0sdkah33ahuo/IMG_20140418_013334.jpg
<shauno> multiple times :)
<daftykins> i've already guessed rowing
<daftykins> and falling down a well
<shauno> prostrate?  your cat may be buddhist
<daftykins> i feel silly, i'm unfamiliar with that word
<shauno> 1) lying stretched out on the ground with one's face downwards.
<diddledan> isn't that in a dude's bum?
<shauno> " especially in reverence or submission."
<shauno> that's prostate.  the missing R is incredibly important
<shauno> (see also: important vs impotent)
<daftykins> lol.
<shauno> eg, http://nickyloh.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Tibet0035.jpg   they're wearing 'shoes' on their hands because the ascend the entire moutain in this position
<daftykins> wellity wellity
<shauno> strange strange day.  I'm so glad I took tomorrow off (it's bring your child to work day.  I had to)
<daftykins> ah yes :D
<daftykins> i'm off to England in the afternoon
<daftykins> in fact i have a number of things to get sorted before i go, so i should really go to sleep right now
<shauno> I found out today that my pay raise this year is 0%, because I had a disciplinary for being late too often
<daftykins> :/
<daftykins> are we talking 5 minutes here and there?
<shauno> despite the fact I kicked ass this year.  I've brought in some huge clients.  apple. microsoft, ericson, walmart, etc
<shauno> 5 minutes way too often, up to an hour on exactly the wrong day, which set it off
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> legit reason?
<shauno> I've been told I can appeal it, but I'm torn between that, and acting like a 12yo and flipping the bird
<shauno> no legit reason.  I'm an insomniac.  have been as long as I remember.  6am shifts are difficult
<daftykins> damn yeah :S
<daftykins> seems to be us three nightowls meet quite often
<daftykins> i'm tempted to quote Macbeth i think it is by asking, since i'll be away for the weekend, "when shall we three meet again?" :D
<shauno> just a weird one because I've had an abnormally strong year
<daftykins> does seem like they should be lenient on such minor transgressions given that
<daftykins> especially being so... school like about it
<daftykins> have you spoken one on one with whoever's the decider?
<shauno> I'm still thinking about that.  I only found out today
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> guess it depends on your relationship with them if it's worth a try or not
<shauno> the 'problem' is our manager's manager.  it's his training I was quite (almost an hour) late for.
<daftykins> doh
<shauno> and ... he's german.  'late' doesn't translate into german
<daftykins> hehe
<diddledan> I don't think they have an equivalent word
<jpds> Oh, they do.
<diddledan> jpds: insults aren't quite the same
<shauno> 'dead' is probably the equivalent.  if you think about it, 'late' and 'late and synomnym in english
<jpds> "absolute Wahnsinn".
<shauno> it's just a weird situation.  especially since they already took 1/5th of my bonus for the same reason.  and without tooting my own horn too much, I am the alpha nerd on the team
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> shauno: hope it works out
<daftykins> right i really have to go, have a good easter all \o
<diddledan> nn
<shauno> have a fun trip :)
<daftykins> ty ^_^
<popey> daftykins: safe travells
<mapps> Wwe ae tottenham
<mapps> :D
<mapps> in Islington atm
<Myrtti> morning and top of the day to you
<mapps> morning
<Myrtti> I'm trying to find out where can I find a pci express wifi card that's half height and supported by Linux...
<Myrtti> ah, I think I've found one
<TheProphet[S]> Hi all
<TheProphet[S]> I am trying to connect to my wireless network from recovery, but I can't get Dhcp to work. dhclient wlan0 - v just ends with no dhcpoffers received, no working leases in persistent database -  sleeping
<TheProphet[S]> Iwconfig shows I am connected to the network but there's no Internet connection
<TheProphet[S]> Has anyone got any idea what the problem could be? I need the Internet to fix the installation
<dwatkins> TheProphet[S]: does "iwconfig list" show the SSID of your access point?
<TheProphet[S]> iwconfig wlan0 does yes
<TheProphet[S]> dawkins: I can see the correct ssid and encryption key
<dwatkins> I guess you could set the IP address manually, but it should be provided by the local DHCP server (assuming it's running etc.)
<dwatkins> iirc, the key needs to be the hex equivalent of the passphrase, but I could be wrong about that
<TheProphet[S]> Trying to ping Google Dns 8.8.8.8 it says host unreachable
<dwatkins> have you manually configured your IP address, TheProphet[S]?
<TheProphet[S]> No I haven't
<dwatkins> if you know the network range, you could set the IP address by hand, but I suspect it's not connected successfully to your wifi because of the type of security
<dwatkins> you might also have to stop networkmanager
<AndChat|213761> Sorry I'm back
<TheProphet[S]> Hey dwatkins sorry I'm back now
<TheProphet[S]> I should be able to ping an ip if I'm connected to the network right?
<dwatkins> that depends on many things, TheProphet[S] - try pinging a local address first, such as your router
<dvrr> Hi  good morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TheProphet[S]> Morning
<TheProphet[S]> dwatkins even my router is unreachable sorry
<TheProphet[S]> I thought I did things properly but it can't be
<TheProphet[S]> I'm gonna try it again
<TheProphet[S]> From recovery mode dropped to root shell and logged in as my user
<TheProphet[S]> Remounted root fs to rw
<TheProphet[S]> Ifconfig wlan0 up and iwconfig wlan0 essid... key... Done
<TheProphet[S]> It's not just "key" right? I'm forgetting something
<dwatkins> it depends on the format of key you're using
<dwatkins> this might help, TheProphet[S] - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14119446/iwconfig-connect-network-via-wifi-on-terminal
<TheProphet[S]> Thanks dwatkins I was reading that and it seems I need to use wpa-supplicant
<dvrr> how to redirect all pages (website) to maintenance page
<TheProphet[S]> dwatkins I managed to get it to work with wpa_supplicant thanks for your help
<brobostigon> goo.gl/J6pGU5  :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I think I saw that one on Fidonet once in the 90s :P
<brobostigon> ah, :)
<MooDoo> howdy all
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> not bad, and you MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> yeah ok thanks, just made sure all machines were trusty, everything fine.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * bigcalm hugs nvidia
<MooDoo> howdy bigcalm
<brobostigon> :)
<ahayzen_> Hi, I'm trying to install ubuntu-restricted-extras and it wants to remove oxideqt-codecs is this ok to be removed?
<brobostigon> !oxideqt-codecs
<brobostigon> !info oxideqt-codecs
<lubotu3> Package oxideqt-codecs does not exist in saucy
<ahayzen_> brobostigon, i think it has come down with the new QML web browser that is installed by default?
<brobostigon> which ubuntu version are you using?
<ahayzen_> brobostigon, trusty
<brobostigon> !info oxideqt-codecs trusty
<lubotu3> oxideqt-codecs (source: oxide-qt): Web browser engine library for Qt (codecs). In component main, is extra. Version 1.0.0~bzr501-0ubuntu2 (trusty), package size 493 kB, installed size 2323 kB
<brobostigon> nominally answers the question.
<ahayzen_> brobostigon, bit strange on a clean image u can't install ubuntu-restricted-extras without breaking the new web browser that is used for the webapps?
<ahayzen_> brobostigon, unless one of the packages in the restricted-extras will replace it? i see it wants to install things like oxideqt-codecs-extra
<brobostigon> that would be a fair presumption.
<ahayzen_> brobostigon, this is what it wants to do http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7275721/
<ahayzen_> it just looks much worse in USC when that dialog appears stating it is going to remove things lol
<ahayzen_> brobostigon, i'll take a punt and see what happens thanks for ur help
<brobostigon> those nominally look like the right packages.
<NET||abuse> Hi guys, trying to use preseed to build an ubuntu vm, but can't get past "Select your location" automatically..
<NET||abuse> anyone know what d-i option in preseed is needed, or boot_command option is needed?
<NET||abuse> i've tried this in the boot command        keyboard-configuration/modelcode=SKIP keyboard-configuration/layout=uk keyboard-configuration/variant=uk console-setup/ask_detect=false
<NET||abuse> figured out en_UK is not locale, only language, en_GB is locale... duh
<NET||abuse> sorted
<mapps> urgh
<mapps> feel rough
<mapps> the horrid next day feeling:)
 * penguin42 worries what mapps did yesterday - Trusty release party?
<bashrc_> too much release partying
<mapps> haha
<mapps> too much partying
<popey> evening
<mapps> usual routine
<mapps> evening popey
<mapps> some day i'll learn..30 this year;p shouldve leant by now
<penguin42> 30 years of partying or just 30 years?
<mapps> wekk
<mapps> 30years old
<mapps> so just 30years
<penguin42> youngster :-)
<mapps> party time began at uni
<mapps> haha
<mapps> young,,,,whenever i gi out im the oldest git there
<mapps> 17/18 year olds everywhere
<mapps> and there's old perv mapps
<bashrc> 30 years of partying.  woohoo
<daubers> Evening
<popey> yo
<Azelphur> popey: question...why on earth do you have to "buy" steam in the software centre?
<popey> Azelphur:  bug 968974
<lubotu3> bug 968974 in unity-lens-applications (Ubuntu) "Some free applications looks like paid applications with price 0.00 and with buy button" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968974
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> so basically, been a bug for years and isn't gonna get fixed :P
<popey> Azelphur: patches welcome
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-19
<ali1234> Azelphur: the real question is why are you still using software centre?
<Azelphur> ali1234: I'm not, but other new users are :P
<ali1234> oh, them.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> looks like popey is on pump.io
<directhex> pope.io
<brobostigon> :)
<mapps> urgh
<mapps> mugged it again
<bashrc> I appear to have got my server into a condition of stability by stopping the oom-killer from killing mysql
<directhex> om nom nom oom
<directhex> the linux oom killer is unfit for purpose
<ali1234> anyone got the link to that FAQ about how to write alsa applications properly so they work with pulseaudio?
<ali1234> it was like "alsa best-practices" or something
<SuperEngineer> Dear work's laptop, I do recall I told you what would happen if your Outlook in box botred me to tears... I gave you fair warning... I warn you that I knew how to "delete all"... I did warn you that I knew where the off switch off was.... I did warn you that I Steam installed on my own pooter... ;)
<SuperEngineer> *bored
 * SuperEngineer kills work's laptop
<SuperEngineer> [and laughs manically - movie style]
<bashrc> directhex: the oom-killer is just unintelligent and can't tell critical applications from non-critical ones
<directhex> bashrc, it also can't complete a kill op before getting invoked again, on a machine with a lot of ram, since it doesn't scale
<bashrc> with a lot of ram you can set swapiness to zero, but I'm only on a Beaglebone with limited system resources
<bashrc> the next kernel release for the Beaglebone should also include zram, which may help
<directhex> RamDoubler(tm) for Linux(tm)!
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> any idea how to identify a process pinging tonnes of udp connections?
<andylockran> 19:24:40.561770 IP 220.241.62.169.49838 > 85.119.82.243.10320: UDP, length 172
<penguin42> that can be tricky
<andylockran> yeah, proving to be
<andylockran> have spent a few hours on it so far
<penguin42> have you tried looking at the contents of the packets to see if they suggest anything?
<penguin42> hmm I wonder if you can do it with perf's trace
<andylockran> the packets contents don't give me any clues
<penguin42> andylockran: try perf trace -a -e sendmsg
<andylockran> though I can tell it looks like it's being used as a rtp relay
<penguin42> says he guessing it's using sendmsg to send the packets
<andylockran> hmm, kinda buging me now
<penguin42> andylockran: Try that perf command - it should show every process using the sendmsg syscall
<andylockran> merlin:/# perf
<andylockran> /usr/bin/perf: line 24: exec: perf_2.6.32: not found
<andylockran> E: linux-tools-2.6.32 is not installed.
<penguin42> if you tab complete on perf_ do you have anything?
<penguin42> hmm bit old, might not have trace
<penguin42> andylockran: The other way that might work is creating an iptalbes rule to block them - not sure if that would show the process in the log?
<andylockran> Ok - blocking the process via ip seems to have blocked the data
<andylockran> but the process is still running
<penguin42> but are you generating logs showing it?
<andylockran> all I've got at the moment is the tcpdump
<penguin42> andylockran: I mean make the iptables log the rejects - I can't remember what info you get in the logs when you do that
<andylockran> ooh, ok
<andylockran> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/4dd0e8da0d82cfa8e63a
<penguin42> andylockran: ah, external syslogging?
<penguin42> what's pid 1881 then?
<andylockran> named
<penguin42> so is that saying that named is sending zillions of moans to rsyslog for some reason?
<andylockran> still going strong with those proceses stoped
<penguin42> did you check if you had perf_something installed ?
<andylockran> I've got perf_3.2
<andylockran> perf: 'trace' is not a perf-command. See 'perf --help'.
<penguin42> yeh probably too new a feature
<penguin42> thing is if they were going to rsyslog I'd have expected some text in the packet - how are you capturing them with tcpdump?
<andylockran> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/793876c3889facf530c3
<penguin42> yeh what tcpdump command are you using?
<shauno> curious, do you have then coming inbound too?
<andylockran> I used wireshark
<MartijnVdS> ShireWark
<andylockran> inbound, nthing.
<penguin42> andylockran: So with your wireshark, what's the contents of those packets - 200 bytes of something
<andylockran> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/a1c43dbb4ab4bea1f808
<penguin42> hmm, 200 bytes of not much
<andylockran> 22:43:39.533789 IP (tos 0x80, ttl 56, id 30442, offset 0, flags [DF], proto TCP (6), length 100)
<andylockran>     80.229.11.208.57889 > 85.119.82.243.22: Flags [P.], cksum 0x67c6 (correct), seq 192:240, ack 196913, win 8192, options [nop,nop,TS val 512981144 ecr 183589], length 48
<andylockran> there are loads - lots of them each second
<penguin42> andylockran: You could trace strace -p on every process one at a time until you find the victim
<penguin42> andylockran: is something showing up in top as using cpu - if it's shifting that much you'd think it would be
<shauno> that last one I'd expect to see loads of
<andylockran> yeah - nothing is showing load
<penguin42> if you just run perf top for a few seconds what's it showing?
<shauno> loads and loads.  it's your ssh connection.  so as you try to list the packets, it's creating more packets, so it lists more packets ..
<penguin42> shauno: Oh yeh, that's not the UDP packets he was previously complaining of though
<shauno> right, just pointing out that the last one is a red herring :)
<penguin42> andylockran: So the packet you grabbed the hex of - how did you select that, have you got the actual udp packets you're worrying about
<andylockran> Just randomly selected
<andylockran> they all seem v. similar at the top level
<andylockran> the IP that they're comunicating with is weird though
<andylockran> 220.241.62.169
<andylockran> which comes up as a phone site - so I guess I'm relaying their calls for free
<shauno> hong kong.  lovely.
<andylockran> even with inbound and outbound conns blocked to that ip, it continues.
<penguin42> andylockran: iptraffic rule?
<penguin42> iptables I mean
<penguin42> andylockran: However, if your box has been owned it could have a hidden process that won't show up in top or anything
<andylockran> set https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ec3cb8a7cc08801ff1b0
<andylockran> penguin42: scared it's the latter :(
<penguin42> andylockran: so what does   perf top    show ?
<andylockran> penguin42: nowt
<penguin42> andylockran: How do you mean nowt
<andylockran> it doesn't show anything.  just says 0 cycles (not sure how to use it though)
<penguin42> really? Oh never seen that
<penguin42> andylockran: What distro?
<andylockran> debian wheezy
<penguin42> the other possibility is it's just got something like an ipsec or other kernel level vpn enabled
<penguin42> andylockran: if you do    mount -t debugfs nodev /sys/kernel/debug   does it mount it?
<andylockran> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/d594efb9b8523dc679b8
<penguin42> ok, what about ls /sys/kernel/debug/tracing ?
<andylockran> ls /sys/kernel/debug/tracing
<andylockran> available_events   buffer_size_kb  events   per_cpu	    README	    set_event  trace_clock   trace_options  tracing_cpumask  tracing_on
<andylockran> available_tracers  current_tracer  options  printk_formats  saved_cmdlines  trace      trace_marker  trace_pipe     tracing_enabled
<penguin42> ooh that's promising - now can I figure out ftrace
<andylockran> cheers for your time buddy - much appreciated
<penguin42> andylockran: Can you install the trace-cmd package?
<andylockran> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rostedt/trace-cmd.git?
<penguin42> yes, although it should be packaged - it is on ubuntu, not sure about wheezy
<andylockran> installed
<penguin42> andylockran: so hmm now the idea is to do    trace-cmd record   something to record something
<penguin42> andylockran: Maybe all the syscalls
<andylockran> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ae9c17f2124c3a77612c
<penguin42> andylockran: how about    trace-cmd record -e syscalls:sys_exit_sendmsg
<andylockran> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7a07a716341c6ddc7368
<penguin42> andylockran: trace-cmd list |grep send
<andylockran> merlin:~/trace-cmd# trace-cmd list |grep send
<andylockran> sched:sched_signal_send
<penguin42> hmm that's boring - it doesn't seem to have syscalls
<penguin42> how about grep for    net    instead of send?
<penguin42> if it has net_dev_xmit  it would be good
<andylockran> nothing on net
<penguin42> ok, that's just too old
<davmor2> Well this seems to of worked.   Server Upgrades FTW
<andylockran> perf_5.2
<penguin42> andylockran: Other than strace'ing every pid I can't think of much
<penguin42> andylockran: Your kernel/perf is just too old for any of the funkier tools
<andylockran> aww . damnit :(
<penguin42> andylockran: Tried running rkhunter?
<penguin42> andylockran: Anything fun in dmesg?
<andylockran> nowt
<penguin42> andylockran: well I'm out of ideas - it's not looking good for the machine though
<shauno> why do they always put blue LEDs in wifi dongles :/  if something's going on the side of my laptop, it shouldn't have a rescue strobe attached to it
<penguin42> shauno: Because we've run out of other LED colours that are 'cool'
<shauno> I'm entirely in favour of no LEDs
<StevenR> hrrm. As far as I can tell, Ubuntu 14.04 LTS is released.... why doesn't do-release-upgrade see it?
 * penguin42 has half a memory that in 10.04 the update didn't happen until 12.04.1 was out, but I might be imagining that
<StevenR> penguin42: you're right
<StevenR> Users of 12.04 LTS will be offered the automatic upgrade when 14.04.1 LTS is released, which is scheduled for July 24th
<StevenR> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2014/04/17/ubuntu-14-04-trusty-tahr-released/
<StevenR> thanks penguin42
<penguin42> still, I should probably upgrade my dad's 12.10
<ging> is there an ubuntu ppa related channel?
<penguin42> not that I'm aware of, there is #ubuntu-packaging if your problem is rying to package stuff
<ging> trying to find out if you can put a binary package you have no source for in a ppa
<penguin42> I suspect that's technically doable, not sure if it's allowed under the rules or not
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-20
<mapps> hm
<mapps> guess thats kife hey]
<shauno> o_o
<mapps>   i meant life
 * penguin42 guessed
<mapps> ;[
<mapps> spent 12hrs at lomgs
<penguin42> lomgs?
<mapps> good morning
<mapps> ust sad to my dadn  thebn 'you cant diem love you tooo much fo that'
<mapps>    arg
<mapps> done too much k
<szymon_g> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> moo
<penguin42> arrrgh!
<bashrc> meow
<Monotoko> woof
<shauno> completely OT, but I don't seem to be interupting anything .. is the term gadgie recognised around the UK? or just scotland/north-east
<directhex> never heard of it
<directhex> if it's scottish, i assume it is an adjective and means "battered and deep fried"
<shauno> heh.  it's the roma (eg, gypsy) version of 'gentile' (outsider, etc).  but it seems to have shown up in various slangs in slightly different forms
<shauno> trying to help someone translate something, and not sure whether she should use it (although it does involve gypsies, so it's the best word for the job, if available)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Seeker`> o/
<Monotoko> I've never heard gadgie in Yorkshire
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-13
<diddledan> this was posted in another room, but https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xap1/v/t42.1790-2/11097880_809151599172890_356111680_n.mp4?oh=ac38253012576f02eef814bfea47586a&oe=552B41B0
<ali1234> warburtons bread is the most horrible bread ever
<ali1234> and that advert makes them look like neo-nazis
<mapps> hi all
<diddledan> allo mapps
<mapps> oFF TO PRAHA on sunday;D
<diddledan> ali1234: aye the bread from warburtons is of the type that I refer to as "blotting paper"
<mapps> 19th-26th april:)
<MartijnVdS> morningsa
<mapps> morning MartijnVdS
<knightwise> morning peeps
<knightwise> just installing the new stable version of Freya and giving it a go
<knightwise> looks pretty good at first sight
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> yo MooDoo
<knightwise> how are you doing :)
<MooDoo> hello knightwise yeah i'm ok thanks.
<knightwise> installing Freya for the moment . looks very good
<knightwise> very mature distro
<MooDoo> knightwise: elemental?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> good $time_description *
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<zmoylan-pi> monday the 13th... should be worse than a friday the 13th which kinda cancel each other out? :-P
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 how are you on this fine day?
<davmor2> MooDoo: awake
<davmor2> MooDoo: you?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i'm ok thanks :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday and happy Scrabble Day! :-D
 * zmoylan-pi boggles...
<MooDoo> howdy JamesTait Oxyphenbutazone that's 1778 points to you
<JamesTait> Well played. ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's not a word there is an o missing :P
<davmor2> Oxypheno, surely
<MooDoo> ah shush you
<MooDoo> ooo books arriving today forgot about that - sorry totally irrelevant change of subject
<davmor2> MooDoo: you're just trying to get away from the fact that the dyslexic knew you spelt a word wrong :P  admit it :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: cough cough
<MooDoo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyphenbutazone - nope
 * zmoylan-pi hands MooDoo a throat lozenge
<davmor2> MooDoo: highest score ever was BENZOXYCAMPHORS 1830
<MooDoo> damn you google
<MooDoo> I will beat you one day morley
<MooDoo> :D
 * zmoylan-pi wonders what the profession of the person who scored that was...
<MooDoo> footballer ;)
<zmoylan-pi> ah it seems to be the theroretical maximum and didn't happen in a competition...
<Myrtti_> time of day
<Myrtti> https://youtu.be/r0IZ_TEzg7M I wonder if it'll be available on Linux
<MooDoo> looks fun
<Myrtti> I can't decide if his accent is intentional or is it like that for real
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: professional scrabble players
<zmoylan-pi> so a video game version of skanger me banger? :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RlXJCwSjwg
<popey> Myrtti: well, it's unity5.. so should be able to
<popey> Myrtti: that guy is hilarious
<Myrtti> popey: apparently the car is modeled to ridiculous reality
<popey> yeah, it looks like it
<Myrtti> I don't understand anything of cars but apparently the engine starts to knock if the vents have been assembled wrongly
<Myrtti> etc
<Myrtti> vents, valves, whathaveyou
<Myrtti> needs all the fluids refilled etc
<popey> yeah valves.
<Myrtti> summer car is a Finnish institution of buying a banger in the spring (preferably with recently renewed car insurance (in Finland it's attached to the car, not the driver) and recent MOT, drive it around and then get it baled once winter is turning in and you'd have to change into winter tyres you don't have and don't want to buy
 * davmor2 so wants it to be vents now :D
<Myrtti> http://www.johannesrojola.com/msc/
<davmor2> JamesTait, MooDoo: I wonder if you could cram in floccinaucinihilipilification or pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis :D
<willcooke> czajkowski, ping?
<JamesTait> davmor2, bless you.
<davmor2> I don't think the board is wide enough for either but they are such nice words
<popey> Myrtti: he is quite funny
<knightwise> boom :)
<knightwise> ubuntu phone just arrived
<popey> \o/
<Myrtti> I think I might have cracked my Nexus 5 screen on the London trip :-|
<davmor2> Knightmare: don't install machine vs machine you will lose hours of your life
<Myrtti> shoved it too hard into my full handbag
<zmoylan-pi> ouch, priced a replacement screen?
<Myrtti> 75 to 99 with installation
<directhex_> that's not so bad, honestly
<directhex_> it's a high res screen, and hard to replace
<Myrtti> almost went to a place to have it changed while we were in London but someone said that I shouldn't rush into things. Well, that means that I'm now very much not rushing because this certainly is not London where I could have gotten it fixed the same day
<directhex_> /o\
<directhex_> lots of cobblers do screen repair too
<directhex_> it's a transferrable skill! replacing touchscreens is almost exactly the same as nailing heels to shoes
<zmoylan-pi> my father a trained cobbler _was_ a dab hand with electrics and electronics in his day...
<popey> cobblers
<popey> awls
<zmoylan-pi> i did have a cobbler in train station alter a bag back in 90s to make a compartment for psion 5 to slide into that saved it a few dents and bangs
<zmoylan-pi> kinda of a holster within the bag
<popey> pew pew pew!
<MooDoo> why can i picture popey behind a sofa playing cowboys and indians with his kids when he says pew pew pew!
<popey> I bought a load of caps for Sams guns
<MooDoo> ahem i mean playing starwars lol
<MooDoo> popey: the ones in a strip or little red ones?
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004RI7ZNQ a thousand shots for 5.50
<MooDoo> yup i remember them :D
<MooDoo> i remember the brown ones that came in a long strip, you used to rub a stone down a load of them lol
<popey> no, the plastic ringsyeah
<MooDoo> ah the memories
<zmoylan-pi> ah the plastic rings that you cut off the actual caps and put them in guns that fitted onto keyrings.  very loud
<zmoylan-pi> i still occasionly see the plastic rings caps in discount stores, haven't seen the paper roll caps since early 80s
<davmor2> MooDoo: I picture popey playing lazer tag with his kids and his wife walking in and ruining all the fun ala Castle :)
<popey> yesterday all the kids in the street were out playing
<popey> easter break is cool when it's sunny
<popey> there's about 15 kids in our road, and they're all similar ages, and all get on well
 * davmor2 pictures popey out with them starting the water fight cause that's the way he rolls
<zmoylan-pi> when i play ad&d at one group we all use nerf to settle arguments, works well :-)
<MooDoo> davmor2: next time there will be a nerf gun outside with a message "Hi, I also have a nurf gun and am hidden in the house, looser cooks tea" ;)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahahaha
<zmoylan-pi> i think i saw that on reddit :-)
<czajkowski> willcooke: pong
<MooDoo> zmoylan-pi: yeah probably where i got it from, just seemed appropriate.
<willcooke> czajkowski, Do you happen to remember the name of that lad who installed Ubuntu on his mates computers at school?  I can't find the article anywhere.
<diplo>  /j #telegram
<diplo> Oops :)
<czajkowski> willcooke: pm ?
<willcooke> czajkowski, thx
<czajkowski> popey: willcooke FYI https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-ie/2013-December/001366.html
<popey> Myrtti: saw this and thought of you https://twitter.com/kartsa82/status/587605750253486080
<zmoylan-pi> i saw a moomin dvd on sale yesterday and thought of posting a pic here...
<MooDoo> love the moomins
<DJones> A friend of mine from Finland is mad on Moomins, her partner must send her at least one picture a day on moomin art/decor/themed cups/knitting patterns etc
<brobostigon> any ideas on something like pushbullet/pushover that can push irssi highlights to ubuntu touch?
<davmor2> MooDoo: next you'll be saying you like noggin the nog and ivor the engine too ;)
<zmoylan-pi> clangers and bagpuss too
<MooDoo> davmor2: and others :) fireball xl5, joe 90, terrahawks etc etc
<foobarry> i watched bertha the other day
<davmor2> MooDoo: battle of the planets, starfleet, thunderbirds, captain scarlet, dungeons and dragons, teenage mutant ninja turtles, transforms, thundercats, he-man, THE MUPPETS and fraggle rock
<mapps> is betfair working?
<mapps> can someone check
<mapps> www.betfair.com
<mapps> just timing out for me;/
<ali1234> terrahawks was great. you don;t see stuff like this in kids shows any more: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/71/200493485_3768ae3e23.jpg
<foobarry> bruce forsyth?
<moreati1> mapps: it's down http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.betfair.com
<ali1234> http://s.sidereel.com/episodes/159751/featured/28464.jpg
<popey> Yeah, I loved Terrahawks
<popey> especially the cubes vs balls thing
<popey> with Windsor Davies as the voice
<ali1234> i had a terrahawks colouring book
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZC9B0YJ8W8 nostalgia!
<mapps> thanks
<Myrtti> Cities:Skylines players might benefit from watching Twitch's best traffic mangler, CleaveTV on http://twitch.tv/cleavetv
<mapps> so it isnt my end - last month couldnt get on for a week yet worked for everyone else
<Myrtti> I still suck in the game tho
<davmor2> popey: MooDoo: you're both of the right age, do you remember Black Hole?
<ali1234> you mean disney's the black hole?
<davmor2> ali1234: yeap the one with maximillion and old ben
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes loved it
<MooDoo> vincent
<davmor2> popey: the balls in terrahawks video reminded me of it :)
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5pOiyD4h6E and old ben was the beat up one :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: http://www.bugeyedmonster.com/toys/blackhole/blackhole/blowup/334inchall.jpg
<MooDoo> davmor2: it was old bob
<davmor2> MooDoo: I new it was old and began with b I was close :D
<davmor2> Old bobs the name and shootings the game :D
<MooDoo> :d
<MooDoo> did you look at the photo?
<ali1234> does anyone remember a live action show that was like king arthur vs aliens?
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> Dungeon Quest?
<ali1234> the aliens all wore black leather and had storm troopers with laser guns
<ali1234> and king arthur had magic
<foobarry> sounds like some pervy geeks dream
<ali1234> i think the aliens might have been time travellers
<ali1234> would have been on tv around 1984
<bigcalm> 70s 80s or 90s?
<bigcalm> Okay
<ali1234> and it was a british show
<bigcalm> http://www.imdb.com/list/ls002724091/
<ali1234> it wasn't a kids show
<bigcalm> That changes matters a lot
<ali1234> well, i mean it wasn't on kids TV
<ali1234> it was like doctor who
<ali1234> or merlin/atlantis that they show now
<foobarry> ah
<foobarry> knights of god?
<ali1234> yes that could very well be it
<foobarry> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_God
<ali1234> yes that is definitely it
<ali1234> there's a helicopter in the intro
<ali1234> i was gonna say i thought there was a helicopter
<ali1234> oh look there's the laser gun storm troopers
<ali1234> and more black helicopters
<foobarry> i never saw it
<ali1234> apparently it was only ever shown once
<foobarry> i have a lifelong habit of not really watching ITV
<foobarry> it was canned due to lameness apparently
<mapps> lol
<awilkins> Really it was canned because Arthur beats the fascists!
<mapps> betfair's down due to a DDOS attack
<awilkins> We can't have the proles thinking they can win!
<mapps> been down 4 hours!
<mapps> paying their 'engineers' and other people fortunes and cant deal with a DDOS attack
<mapps> pathetic
<foobarry> :-|
<foobarry> its very hard to deal with DDOS
<mapps> well
<mapps> I'm sure the likes of Google/twitter/facebook get targeted..no?
<foobarry> because its very similar actually supplying a web service
<mapps> not sure what that means
<awilkins> Beating DDOS is really only possible if you have a large distributed infrastructure
<foobarry> if you have a web service that is popular
<foobarry> then it supplies web pages to lots of different people
<foobarry> a DDOS is very similar to that
<foobarry> the first D in DDOS suggests that there are various/many sources
<mapps> ya
<mapps> you mean because theyd have multiple servers multiple locations
<mapps> i assumed betfair would too
<foobarry> yeah sure,
<foobarry> but DDOS will eat them all
<foobarry> given sufficient capacity
<mapps> yea
<mapps> theyre trying to claim it's a competitor on twitter
<mapps> ;]
<foobarry> i have no love for betting companies
<mapps> they pay me very well so im happy enough
<mapps> only reason i moved ;]
<ali1234> is there some large gambling event currently?
<ali1234> if i was a betfair competitor i would have ddos'ed them on saturday
<mapps> nah
<mapps> yea saturdays are our busy day
<mapps> like 150 events in play
<ali1234> especially when it's the boat race and the grand national
<mapps> sometimes on CL days our site goes down due to demand
<mapps> the money that comes in every minute is quite shocking
<mapps> people refer to work as 'the big green machine' just prints money O_o
<diddledan> mapps: can they print some money for me? (without requiring me to gamble) :-p
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> bit tired today hm
<ChunkzZ> what channels are you guys on, on freenode? I'm on 24.
<daftykins> some ubuntu, some Kodi... some chat
<popey> only 49 now. trimmed down a bit
<ChunkzZ> what one's popey ?
<popey> wat?
<popey> oh, which channels
<popey> lots :)
<ChunkzZ> pic ?
<popey> nah. I'd have to blur some out
<daftykins> ChunkzZ: why don't you ask us what you're really after? because asking people what channels they're in isn't exactly... normal.
<ChunkzZ> daftykins, I'm not after anything!!!!!!!!
<diddledan> plus you can just /whois them
<ChunkzZ> popey, okay no worries
<daftykins> ooook.
<Laney> not on freenode you can't
<daftykins> sure you can, depends on those channel modes though
<diddledan> oh fair enough, Laney , I just assumed having never tried it
<Laney> (by default)
<Laney> no, it depends on user mode +i which is on by default
<daftykins> oh ok
<daftykins> things used to be much different on Quakenet
<ChunkzZ> daftykins, you're the 1 who ripped in to me about kodi?
<daftykins> i don't have a clue what you mean
<ChunkzZ> you were on about some illegal stuff, remmeber now?
<ChunkzZ> streaming is illegal etc etc etc or whatever shit you said. :p
<ChunkzZ> sorry excuse my French
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> streaming isn't inherently illegal. it's only illegal if you're streaming copyright works that you haven't got license for
<daftykins> oh probably, enforcing channel policy in #kodi of not permitting illegal addons or repos to be spoken of
<daftykins> well regardless of if that was me, another channel isn't the place to discuss that.
<diddledan> o...k...
<diddledan> guess he didn't like the answer?
<ChunkzZ> daftykins, diddledan https://torrentfreak.com/anti-piracy-group-admits-streaming-movies-isnt-illegal-130624/ that is all see ya
<daftykins> sadly #kodi attracts a lot of idiots who aren't even aware of what they're being told not to discuss, so they start throwing out links like the above that are trying to justify their actions... when the main issue is simply that in #kodi the naughty repos and add-ons are off topic :)
<daftykins> unfortunately a lot of people out there make money by loading up little devices with these copyright infringing addons then sell them with Kodi as their base, which then make them come to #kodi when something doesn't work
<directhex_> bloody teenagers
<popey> s/teenagers/people/
<awilkins> Grrarr. Outlook.com is being annoying by refusing to accept mails from my personal domain. Feel I may have spoiled something by defining SPF records.
<awilkins> Even when relayed through my DNS provider it's not working
<daftykins> outlook.com eh - novel choice 0o
<awilkins> It's our work email provider
<awilkins> Trying to get my Redmine server to mail things to it
<awilkins> I have postfix / dovecot all nicely running on the server
<awilkins> It mails things to GMail just fine
<awilkins> Even though GMail was initially canning it as spam (switched to my DNS mail relay and it's in my inbox)
<diddledan> awilkins: afaicr outlook andpreviously hotmail require that you submit your spf details via a webform because microsoft don't trust standards
<daftykins> lol
<awilkins> *donk*
<awilkins> My home IP (where my server is at) is on some evil blocklist they have
<awilkins> Got a "sod off" message from their server
<bashrc_> I have the same issue
<bashrc_> some domains won't accept email from me because of a spurious IP based blocklist
<awilkins> Aha, now they are at least going to my junkbpox
<awilkins> A quick mark of them as not-junk and it's going to my inbox
<awilkins> HUzzah
<awilkins> I don't sync my junkbox to Thunderbird
<popey> golly https://twitter.com/unity3d/status/587492191829958656
<popey> is the 3ds powerful enough to run unity3d games?
<foobarry> does vlc on ubuntu stream to chromecast?
<foobarry> maybe ill just plugin hdmi
<popey> dont see how it can
<davmor2> popey: it does say the new nitendo 3ds
<popey> yeah
<davmor2> popey: I don't know if that means there is going to be a new one released
<popey> a new one was recently announced
<davmor2> popey: indeed just looking at it now
<ali1234> presumably you still have to jump through all the nintendo licensing hoops though?
<popey> I guess
<popey> no real "official" indie game scene on nintendo is there?
<ali1234> no, only homebrew linux stuff
<ali1234> afaik
<davmor2> popey: so looking at the spec the new 3ds sounds like a tablet with 2 small screens instead of one large one
<ali1234> the old one was too
<ali1234> nintendo have been using ARM since the gameboy advance
<directhex_> davmor2: your comment on spec is more true than you realise
<directhex_> davmor2: the "2ds" cut-price 2d-only 3ds variant is literally a larger lcd with a bunch of it hidden behind plastic, as it's cheaper than 2 separate smaller screens
<MartijnVdS> and when it breaks, it's all broken at once!
<MartijnVdS> </experience>
<mapps> phew
<mapps> thought id lost my sim
<mapps> got a dual sim phone but both are nano phone takes micro..couldnt even order the adapter to gib;/
<mapps> waiting for it to arrive in spain#
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-14
<mapps> hi guys
<Azelphur> Hmm, playing with pulseaudio over the network. I've got it running but it stutters like hell. My first thought was network throughput issues but the server is on ethernet, and the client is around a meter away from the router, I can shove 7MB/sec through the connection and pulse seems to only want ~300KB/sec, any ideas?
<Azelphur> Feels like it needs a buffer or something
<mapps> pulseaudio? you streaming audio?
<Azelphur> mapps, yup, I got it working reasonably well now, still a tiny bit of stuttering but it only seems to be firefox that stutters
<Azelphur> I'm calling it a win. :)
<Azelphur> mapps, out on holiday so I got my two laptops, one of which runs my IM stuff while I am working on my main, pulse streaming from the IM laptop to the main one and synergy too, \o/
<mapps> what are you streaming/what do you use to stream and what you use to listen
<mapps> i thought pulseaudio was just to do with normal sound not streaming..sure id heard of it before
<Azelphur> pulseaudio is the answer to all those questions
<mapps> hm
<mapps> so you can stream say mp3 using it?
<Azelphur> mapps, any app that makes sound on my little laptop comes out of my big laptop
<Azelphur> open VLC and play a MP3, the audio will come out of the other laptop
<mapps> ahh ok
<mapps> i get it
<Azelphur> I'll video demo actually because it's cool, one sec
<mapps> why doi you want it like this really?
<Azelphur> so I can hear when I get messages on my little laptop?
<mapps> so its not just for streaming music..am i right that pulseaudio is to di with audio on local machine too
<mapps> ok:)
<mapps> IM being like Jabber/ICQ/ whatever people use now i guess.:P
<Azelphur> IRC is IM :)
<mapps> ahh
<Azelphur> gah, slow US internet connection, feel like I'm in a third world country :P
<Azelphur> gonna take 10 minutes to upload a 20 second video
<mapps> hah
<mapps> where are you?
<Azelphur> Just south of LA
<mapps> cool..how long far
<Azelphur> until may
<mapps> nice
<mapps> with work?
<Azelphur> yea, here for work
<mapps> nice
<mapps> couldnt you have done the work remotely in theory? or just not possible at all
<Azelphur> mapps, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA6Ply8QS8M there we go
<Azelphur> mapps, it is, but I come out every now and again just to hang and this time we have a bit of a deal to seal
<mapps> cool:)
<mapps> going to any cool places whilst there
<knightwise> morning peeps
<Azelphur> mapps, maybe universal or something, nothing planned
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Can anybody recommend a HP colour printer/scanner/fax etc that prints up to A3
 * knightwise hates printers
<directhex_> DJones: that's not a big selection
<directhex_> DJones: HP multi-function printers that can do A3 and are sold in the UK: OfficeJet 7500, .
<DJones> Yeah, that was about the only one I could find
<DJones> I think problem solved anyway, just getting a cheap a4 printer to last 3 months until we can change computer systems to one that will actually allow us to select which paper tray we want to print from on the main printer
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<DJones> Moin
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> howdy howdy howdy
<bigcalm> popey: how's GTA V?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: my mate is chomping at the bit, he gets his copy delivered today and he's at work.
<bigcalm> MooDoo: given a good internet connection, eager beavers like us downloaded via Steam on the 7th
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yeah bit big isn't it?
<bigcalm> https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/585531979665448960
<bigcalm> Happy GTA V day, JamesTait
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Equal Pay Day! :-D
<bigcalm> :P
<foobarry> :|
<JamesTait> bigcalm, o/
<davmor2> JamesTait: no really not happening unless we all get the same money as the boss ;)
<foobarry> and animals too?
<foobarry> do they get fair pay?
<zmoylan-pi> or is it because women usually are paid less equal pay day?
<directhex_> the latter
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, yes, to do with the gender gap, and promoting equal pay for equal work.
<MooDoo> bigcalm: don't forget the 5gb day 1 patch for gta V wow
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<directhex_> MooDoo: only 5gb? small by modern standards
<directhex_> MooDoo: also, gta5 doesn't work if your windows username is not strictly alphanumeric, e.g. has accents in it or punctuation :p
<awilkins> https://twitter.com/jeffgerstmann/status/587840969598373888 <<?!"?
<directhex_> awilkins: modern gaming
<bigcalm> Eugh
<MooDoo> will get xbox one version i think lol
<awilkins> If you use that feature, it should post a screenshot on your twitter feed with a comment that says "Look at me! I'm a TOTAL LAMER!"
<zmoylan-pi> a complete leroy jenkins
<foobarry> awilkins: isn't that just the same as the rich kids at school buying a complete pack of all the stickers in teh sticker album?
<foobarry> i but yeah DLC sucks, and EA are the epitomy of it
<awilkins> In that it's infuriating and it spoils the achievements of those with skill? Yes....
<Myrtti> kek, BBC Cambridgeshire retweeted my tweet and then undid it X-D
<popey> bigcalm: good fun :)
<popey> bigcalm: didn't get to play it until ~40 mins past midnight as it had to decrypt/unpack 60GB on spinning rust
<bigcalm> popey: that's what I'll have to wait for when I get home about 8pm tonight as well then
<bigcalm> popey: Did you get to choose your name in the game?
<popey> uh
<popey> dunno
<bigcalm> Ah, doh
<bigcalm> Names aren't needed until playing online
<bigcalm> I'm just used to Hat Films / YogsCast playing online
<zmoylan-pi> go for a name that is the epitome of british driving... noddy :-D
<bigcalm> I wanna go home!
<popey> bigcalm: my GPU is unable to run it at a decent res or framerate
<popey> So I anticipate buying another one rather soon
<foobarry> i bet a console is cheaper than a gpu
<awilkins> Hmm, you can get the next-tier-down GPU for Â£100-200
<awilkins> Usually
<awilkins> And that will make everything go faster.
<zmoylan-pi> wow, i intend replacing my main system for around â¬200 :-)
<awilkins> New console only makes new console games faster. And they cost a bomb.
<popey> I bet a console can't do what my pc does
<foobarry> console avoids the GPU race
 * awilkins shrugs
<popey> GPU race allows for trickle down economics
<awilkins> Haven't changed my GPU in years
<popey> My son can have my old GPU
<popey> me either
<awilkins> Forgotten which model I have actually
<popey> 14/08/2011 was when I bought this GTX 460 from overclockers according to my email.
<awilkins> It runs Elite : Dangerous between 30 and 60 frames at 1920x1080 ergo it is good enough
<popey> maybe not.
<popey> Mine runs GTA V at 1366x768 at 30fps :S
<bigcalm> My home system has a "nVidia GeForce GTX 660" no idea how it'll fair
<awilkins> GTX 560 Ti on the 12th Feb 2011
<popey> not a lot better than mine I think
<bigcalm> Poop
<foobarry> i don't have a home system anymore
<foobarry> just a laptop and a microserver
<bigcalm> "GeForce GTX 750 Ti" in my work workstation
<bigcalm> Maybe I should add a 2nd drive and install GameOS on it
<awilkins> My next GPU will probably be part of my Next Big Upgrade
<popey> heh
<awilkins> I'll need something that can do 60Hz in 3D stereo in most games at whatever res the Oculus Rift CV1 comes out at
<awilkins> foobarry, Running a Pi2 as a microserver
<foobarry> RAIDed disk?
<awilkins> foobarry, No
<awilkins> But it's not critical
<awilkins> If I start needing heavy storage I'll defer that to my NAS box
<popey> hah, all the broadcasts in steam are gta 5 today
<awilkins> That has MySQL and a bunch of other apps available for it's default OS as "apps"
<awilkins> NAS has a RAID 0 array of 2x 4TB WD reds
<awilkins> Oh, sorry
<awilkins> RAID 1
<awilkins> RAID 0 wouldn't be much use
<davmor2> popey: it wouldn't be an excuse to buy the latest dell that you are looking for would it?
<TwistedLucidity> Question: Is there an easy way to automagically keep (say) the last 3 kernel versions, rather than have them all hang around and cause problems when running updates?
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: sudo apt-get autoremove
<TwistedLucidity> So...so run that prior to every update?
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: should leave you with Current kernel/new kernel and original kernel iirc
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: OK, seems simple enough. Just have to remember to do it!
<TwistedLucidity> It's easy enough to fix, but seeing "Kernel updates failed. Panic, human. PANIC NOW!" is never fun. :-)
 * bigcalm comforts himself by watching the GTA V videos on Steam
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: just alias apt-get-dist to sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -y && sudo apt-get autoremove  done ;)
<popey> wow, steam update which hits you in the face with a GTA 5 support note
<popey> windows user names have to be A-Z, a-z and 0-9 only, anything else and GTA 5 won't install
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Heh....I knew this was the place to ask
<popey> davmor2: no. :)
 * TwistedLucidity really should look into Landscape or something
<popey> \o/ landscape
<popey> free for 10 machines
<popey> (and 10 VMs)
<foobarry> wonder if a bug or anti le^eâ¬Â½Â²â¬3t speak
<TwistedLucidity> Aye, which is why I should look into it. Or something anyway. "sudo apt...." is not a big deal, but manually having to hit a number of machines becomes, well, a drag
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: landscape makes it much easier and really don't run that it may break your system :)  but if you run sudo apt-get autoremove on 14.04 + it will remove old kernel images
<ali1234> how many GTA games have they made now and they still can't even parse a string correctly?
<popey> heh
<TwistedLucidity> 3 physical boxes, 1 always-on VM (maybe more soon).
<popey> i added my mums machine to my landscape
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: I do it now as it saves me manually culling them to make /boot have enough free space for the new kernels :)
<popey> makes life easier so I can remotely do stuff to her machine even now she's changed ISP and I have no SSH access
<TwistedLucidity> That reminds me, I really need to have the router poll the WAN IP and update the DNS records is needs be.
<TwistedLucidity> Or if Landscape can do it, that'll be fine too.
<awilkins> popey, There's an idea
<awilkins> Does 14.04 support it?
<TwistedLucidity> A project to look into over the next few months once everything else is out of the way. Yeesh. Roll-on retirement!
<TwistedLucidity> In ~35 years.
<awilkins> Although TBH I think I have mum on the dynamic DNS + SSH port forward
 * TwistedLucidity starts sobbing
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Is your router running something you can put a cron job on?
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, I'm using duckdns and all you have to do is fetch a particular URL periodically
<TwistedLucidity> DD-WRT, even has some pre-configured muck for some companies. But MythicBeasts isn't one - so yeah, need to slap in a wee script.
<awilkins> I have my CNAME records point at the duckdns names and I'm all good
<TwistedLucidity> Never heard of DuckDNS before. DDG folks?
<awilkins> Don't think so
<awilkins> It's just some guys who did it for learning purposes
<popey> awilkins: yes
<awilkins> No association with DDG : http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1muz4q/duckdns_a_completely_free_as_in_beer_ddns_solution/ccd6z0x
<awilkins> (quote : some guy on the internet claiming to be the DuckDNS guy)
<popey> bigcalm: someone was live streaming their gta 5 setup last night on launch, and left their key on screen, someone stole it immediately.
<awilkins> Ouch
<czajkowski> so who's coming for drinks next week ! http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3087-release-drinks/
<awilkins> Boo, we need drinkies in Manchester
<popey> do it
<Myrtti> I'd consider if I hadn't just been to London to vote and apply for a new passport
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> popey: :(
<awilkins> Have DMed @madlabuk to see if there's any possibility of Ubuntu Drinkies next Thursday
<awilkins> They already seem to have a Java meetup and a meeting of their Space Programme
<awilkins> So I'll probably be heading there that night anyway!
<directhex_> new car buying is exciting, but delays are frustrating
<foobarry> what u buying directhex_
<directhex_> A CAR :O
<directhex_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2iThBoxYbY
<bigcalm> A Volt!
<foobarry> are they electric/hybrid?
<bigcalm> Fully elec
<foobarry> i keep nearly getting run over by electrics
<foobarry> living in surburbia you often cross quiet streets using your ears
<foobarry> especially cul de sacs
<zmoylan-pi> a habit you'll unlearn or darwin will sort it out
<foobarry> hoping they would get a noise added to them
<foobarry> also,
<foobarry> stepping out from the kerb and a guy decided to pull away from kerb without indicating
<popey> directhex_: that looks quite nice
<foobarry> i didn't know his intention or able to second guess because the engine was not making noise
<directhex_> foobarry: "it's complicated"
<directhex_> foobarry: at low speeds, it's all electric
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Always look. Both ways. Push-cyclists are quiet and they can kill peds as well.
<foobarry> sure, but in the case of driver in car deciding to drive away from kerbn suddenly, i had no way of knowing
<foobarry> if i had heard engine i would have beeen aware of driver in car etc
<directhex_> foobarry: at high speeds, it's PE hybrid like a prius. at low speeds if you forgot to charge it (or ran it flat), it's all electric w/ petrol generator
<awilkins> Have discovered that my car allowance gets paid regardless of whether I spend it on car
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: In that scenario, true. Which is why you throw yourself on to the bonnet and then sue them.
<awilkins> This is almost disappointing because now I have no incentive to drive anything nicer
<foobarry> or they would drive away
<zmoylan-pi> rocket powered roller skates awilkins :-)
<foobarry> lawn mower
<awilkins> I thought about leasing a Tesla but it's a MITE over my budget
<directhex_> foobarry: https://youtu.be/hbhIB1oDoxU?t=167
<zmoylan-pi> do reliant robin have a leccy version yet? :-)
<foobarry> can anyone recommend a garden fork that won't break easily?
<zmoylan-pi> how many forks have you broken?
<foobarry> 1
<zmoylan-pi> then it might have been the fork or it might have been you using it wrong.  get another and wait
<foobarry> but reading the reviews it seems lot of other people do too
<zmoylan-pi> because people use them wrong
<popey> or people leave them outside and they rot
<foobarry> not sure whether to get teh Â£15 one or splash out on the wilkinson sword stainless steel one
<zmoylan-pi> they stick them in compacted soil and try to break the soil by applying pressure to the fork
<foobarry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004WJ0SJI
<foobarry> or maybe a cheaper carbon steel one :S
<foobarry> you never know what reviewers on the net are doing
<foobarry> or how crazy/stupid they are
<davmor2> directhex_: don't buy that one you know pronouncing xul is too close to saying zool ;)
<zmoylan-pi> at least it's not the beetlejuice model
<directhex_> davmor2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg7MAacSPNM
<davmor2> directhex_: there is no chevy only xul
<directhex_> sigh @ focus in unity
<popey> https://yougov.co.uk/#/centre GRAPHS!
<Laney> barely anybody is bothering to campaign around here
<Laney> safe seat, safe ward
<Laney> zzzz
<popey> same here
<popey> had a letter through the door from a councillor saying sorry he'd missed us (we were in)
<zmoylan-pi> some sort of pi activated spotlight pointing at the doorstep with fanfare music... :-)
<ali1234> dueling banjos?
<Laney> i tweeted some of them asking if there's a hustings
<Laney> no reply
<Laney> might do a chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> What have I done? *hides*
<popey> what has he done?
<Laney> oh
<chrisccoulson> Laney, oh, are you referring to how I voted in May?
<Laney> sure am
<chrisccoulson> aha :)
<Laney> it's incredibly tedious to page down your tweets back to then
<chrisccoulson> I'll probably be voting the same way again
<Laney> twitter seems to have given up giving me new ones
<popey> chrisccoulson: how did you vote?
<chrisccoulson> Laney, is this what you're looking for? https://twitter.com/chrisccoulson/status/469437833179316224
<popey> haha
<Laney> :D
<ali1234> wait, why do the parties get to write a tagline?
<chrisccoulson> ali1234, it makes the ballot paper larger, which means it's easier to draw a cock on it using a black marker pen
<chrisccoulson> Laney, what constituency are you in?
<czajkowski> popey: dont suppose you know if the bluetooth on the Ubuntu phone will work with a selfie stick ?
<popey> haha
<Laney> chrisccoulson: Nottingham East
<popey> Not sure I want to know
<popey> czajkowski: almost certainly not
<popey> czajkowski: file a bug :)
<ali1234> chrisccoulson: there's zero chance of labour not winning nottingham east
<MooDoo> Laney: chrisccoulson gedling borough here
<chrisccoulson> Laney, aha, I feel a bit sorry for you. Chris Leslie is quite an unremarkable MP
<czajkowski> popey: well I'll get one and test it then I can at least file the bug knowing I've tried before I file it
<popey> czajkowski: i think we have bluetooth configured to only allow headphones / speakers right now
<popey> that can change
<popey> but the camera app doesn't have the facility, so yeah, test and file a bug
<czajkowski> will do
<czajkowski> wanted to use the phone at mobile week NYC
<czajkowski> would have been a great way to demo it working
<czajkowski> popey: next co working day we may have folks from Xamarin joining us :)
<czajkowski> can be all about the mobile
<czajkowski> the story of my life right now
<czajkowski> I swear my laptop has a mind of its own today. keeps going up in volume and I'm not touching it
 * popey looks at directhex_ 
<directhex_> wot?
<popey> be nice to have xamarin available on linux..
<popey> (and ubuntu phone)
<directhex_> yes, it would.
<popey> we can dream...
<czajkowski> There is a Xamarin and COuchbase workshop next month free to all if anyone is interested  http://www.meetup.com/Couchbase-London/events/221820591/
<directhex_> popey: i think it'll be an easier sell for me once steam machines launch
<directhex_> i can push the indie gamedev angle, via monogame
<popey> Right
<popey> That's later in the year?
<popey> I see controllers go on sale in November.
<directhex_> everything is november
<zmoylan-pi> crimbo is coming...
<zmoylan-pi> only a few 100 shopping days left
<popey> http://www.xmasclock.com/
<popey> 254
<foobarry> new features in 15.04?
<zmoylan-pi> see, nearly into the christmas rush!! :-)
 * popey updates his amazon wishlist for christmas
<zmoylan-pi> only summer, back to school and halloween sales to go
<foobarry> plasma5 looks like kde4 without the cashew
<davmor2> popey: are you on vivid?
<davmor2> popey: desktop
<foobarry> 5. Locally Integrated Menus are now default.
<foobarry> ^^ global menu is gone?
<ali1234> foobarry: does that mean i have to stop trolling KDE users by calling it "the peanut"?
<foobarry> if you can find any ,it seems so
<foobarry> 15.04 looks like the lowest key release in ages
<popey> davmor2: yup
<davmor2> popey: did you update today yet?
<popey> yes
<popey> a few minutes ago
<davmor2> popey: can you press AltGr and see if it displays the menus for you please
<popey> it doesnt
<popey> oh, 22 more updates to go
<popey> a thousand kde packages
<popey> davmor2: i haven't logged out or rebooted for ages, so I may not be a good gauge of anything
<popey>  13:55:17 up 5 days, 17:34,  4 users,  load average: 0.81, 0.65, 0.70
<foobarry> elementary freya got released \o/
<popey> don't forget to pay for your iso!
<foobarry> i was going to contribute actually :D
<foobarry> or maybe sponsor a bug
<foobarry> https://www.bountysource.com/
<popey> haha http://askubuntu.com/questions/607935/what-determines-permissions-in-dev
<popey> no answers for 2 days.
<popey> I stick a "free internet points" bounty on it, and get instant answers! :D
<foobarry> yay for free internet points
<ali1234> because questions without bounties get buried in seconds
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Ah, but are any of them correct?
<popey> dunno, need to figure that out
<ali1234> permissions in dev are determined by udev btw
<TwistedLucidity> Still, a wrong answer is probably still better than the OP replying with "It's OK, I fixed it." and then never saying how...
<popey> well yes, because it's triggered discussion on a couple of answers
<TwistedLucidity> There should be a special place in hell for people like that
<ali1234> the answer by serg is the correct one
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Why not just read the manual?
 * TwistedLucidity starts running
<ali1234> read the manual for udev? hahahahahahhhaha
<popey> thought so
<ali1234> implying it even exists
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: A code without documentation is poor code.
<ali1234> i agree
<ali1234> the really funny part is that even lennart himself couldn't write a correct udev rule for pulseaudio
<ali1234> but his attempted worked correctly for years due to undefined behaviour
<ali1234> then one day it broke
<ali1234> but apparently all of systemd is documented and has stability guarantees /s
<TwistedLucidity> I hope the documentation has been tested....
<ali1234> the documentation for udev is basically equivalent to bad autogenerated doxygen stuff - it tells you absolutely nothing
<ali1234> essentially it gives you a list of valid keywords and identifiers and tells you nothing about what they do
<TwistedLucidity> "getFoo(): This method gets a foo and returns foo." with no explanation on what a "foo" is, why you want one or where to use it.
<TwistedLucidity> I hate things like that
<TwistedLucidity> Idea: have a second coder write the unit tests based solely off the comments....
 * TwistedLucidity cackles evily
<ali1234> popey: btw the person asking why you think permissions are wrong has a good point
<ali1234> /dev/input/event* should only be readable by root
<ali1234> mumble had better have a damn good reason for doing so, because it looks awfully like malware
<ali1234> i would hope it's for something like "push to talk" when a game has grabbed all keyboard input from X
<ali1234> the good news is that with udev you can control permissions down to individual devices. so for push-to-talk you could get one of those usb buttons (ie a 1 key keyboard) and only allow mumble to access that
<ali1234> so yeah udev isn't all bad
<shauno> reminds me, I was looking for a way for python to grab keyboard input in a background process
<zmoylan-pi> no security implications there...
<shauno> :)
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, I hate doxygen
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, set a policy of having documented methods on one of my last projects
<shauno> (it's not really an environment with any security implications for input.  the 'keyboard' is a lirc dongle - IR receiver that presents itself as a keyboard to the OS)
<awilkins> Some smartarse deployed Doxygen and ka-pow! Documentation.
<popey> ali1234: yeah.
<awilkins> Or it's Java equivalent
<popey> ali1234: it is for push to talk, yes. mumble couldn't see my keypresses until I fiddled with that.
<ali1234> nothing wrong with doxygen and similar when used correctly
<awilkins> Problem was the classes and methods had some of the most obtuse and confusing names possible
<ali1234> problem is nobody ever does
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Or comments that make perfect sense at the time, but don't 3 years later.
<TwistedLucidity> And if you do fully elaborate methods in the docs (or link to the full elaboration), when the code changes people don't update the docs
<TwistedLucidity> Or they move the docs
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, My rule of thumb for any comment is - can you make the code clear enough not to need it
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: That does help, but it often not enough
<TwistedLucidity> I work on a system where you can export documents. The can have multiple 'pages', linked content, reditions and so on.
<TwistedLucidity> An export is a non-trivial operation for various reasons.
<TwistedLucidity> So the method "doc.export" has a bunch of flags for which version, rendition etc
<TwistedLucidity> The code is perfectly clear.
<TwistedLucidity> The interations between those switches and the edge cases? No so much
<awilkins> Class diagram from one of the projects I despaired of : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/refset-classes.png
<TwistedLucidity> Or why the defaults are the way they are.
<awilkins> That one is LESS complicated than the diagram for the single class at the top
<awilkins> Which has around 200 methods accumulated from about 12 interfaces it implements
<awilkins> The methods are hidden because they are redonkulous
<TwistedLucidity> It doesn't matter how bad it is, so long as you follow the process to create badness. ISO9001 approval!
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: I fear for your unit tests......
<awilkins> Aha, found the class at the top : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/ConceptComponent.png
<bashrc> :)
<awilkins> The worst thing is, it's generic (  type params R, C)
<awilkins> And param C is    "C extends ConceptComponent<R, C> "
<awilkins> Yes, this class is it's own grandpa
<awilkins> And it's abstract. So any instance of it also it's own grandpa while also being a child of it's own grandpa
<awilkins> Grandpa being 2,860 lines of what seems to be mostly type casting...
<awilkins> And it implements eleven (11!!) interfaces
<TwistedLucidity> Classception
<awilkins> Yeah, pretty much
<awilkins> I've written generics code that makes co-workers wince
<awilkins> This makes me want to curl up into a ball and cry for mummy until the bad code goes away
<TwistedLucidity> Java is becoming a lumbering beast. Time it was torn down and reborn
<awilkins> Happilyu I
<TwistedLucidity> Well, I guess it has. dotNet.
<zmoylan-pi> java 2: this time you'll cry
<awilkins> am no longer responsible for any aspect of this project!
<awilkins> I like C# as a language
<awilkins> But I think Java has nicked most of the good bits from it
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: java could do with sheding some of the legacy cruft
<intrbiz> .net is just as bloated now
<TwistedLucidity> Speaking of Java...I have to fingure out why the runtime method signatures seem to bear no relation to the source. I suspect I have goosed Maven.....
 * zmoylan-pi is writing a small script in perl at the mo...
 * TwistedLucidity longs to return to COBOL
<zmoylan-pi> i find perl is very like basic of 8 bit days...
<intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: really?
<directhex_> god i hate java dev
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, if the method sigs are wrong, then you have the wrong combination of src and runtime
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, most of my scripts look very like basic code i would write
<TwistedLucidity> Java is OK server-side (could be better, but it's kinda OK). Front-end Java makes me want to cry
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Like, totally different versions
<awilkins> Yeah, the best thing about .NET is the WIndows.Forms library
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Yeah, I know. But all the timestamps match. This is what I get for having to work on 3 versions at onces and compile a patch.....
<awilkins> And the designers - even the FOSS one (SharpDevelop) is a joy to use next to ANYTHING I've used for Java
<awilkins> Proper round-tripping of code to form!
<awilkins> GUI code in a separate file so you can concentrate on logic!
<TwistedLucidity> Oh FFS....*there's* the problem!
<directhex_> professionally, aaaaaAAAAAaaaaAAAaaaaAAAAAaaaAAAAaaaaaAAAAAAa java dev hurts
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Err....GUI separation is just best practice, innit?
<TwistedLucidity> directhex_: Pays the bills
<directhex_> TwistedLucidity: it's nice when the IDE makes it easy without being restrictive
<directhex_> TwistedLucidity: e.g. in monodevelop, i like being able to design complex widgets in code, and drag-and-drop them in the designer
<TwistedLucidity> Having used IntelliJ and Eclipse for a while and whilst Eclipse is dreadful and IntelliJ has very nice features (like a functioning Maven integration)....Eclipse is still better.
<intrbiz> one avoids GUI work at all cost
<ali1234> that sounds awesome
<directhex_> eclipse is why i quit java dev in 2004.
<awilkins> Eclipse is much better now
<directhex_> "use eclipse, it is the best!" *tries* "OH GOD WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR BRAIN RUN AWAAAAAAAAAAAAY"
<awilkins> Eclipse + Maven is quite tolerable
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: m2e works fine
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: m2e is terrible.
<TwistedLucidity> Barely functional
<awilkins> *developing* for eclipse.... well, hopefully e4 is easier
<awilkins> m2e is OK in Luna
<awilkins> The "no lifecycle plugin" thing gets old
<ali1234> i've never been patient enough to wait for eclipse to load
<TwistedLucidity> Have to manually add every plug-in to the correct lifecycle state in the super-pom or m2e barfs.
<directhex_> i hate all these things
<directhex_> i'd rather be writing c#
<TwistedLucidity> Freedom hater :-P
<awilkins> They should probably have a paper-cuts hackfest that fixes all the common ones
<intrbiz> TBF nothing complicated in my POMs
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, I am getting a kicking for the Maven stuff being way to slow
<TwistedLucidity> We might revert to Ant at this rate
<intrbiz> Ant is awful
<TwistedLucidity> But it works
<TwistedLucidity> For example - you can copy files!
<foobarry> Dec is worse
<TwistedLucidity> We want Maven for the dependency management, some of the plug-ins etc as they make life much, much easier.
<TwistedLucidity> But we need to generate ~10 WARs from a single call, and it doesn't look like Maven can cope
<TwistedLucidity> So that's multiple calls
<TwistedLucidity> Hence too slow
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: what is the difference in these WARs?
<TwistedLucidity> Various deployment factors (backing systems - so different versions of the 'core' code, target web application etc).
<TwistedLucidity> So at the moment, Maven compiles the WARs with the variations with the backing systems (all based on dependencies, Maven is awesome at that)
<TwistedLucidity> Then Ant copies in the various configuration overlays that are needed for each web app server
<TwistedLucidity> Then WARs it as required
<TwistedLucidity> For my investigation, Maven simply cannot cope with the concept of copying a file from location A->B
<TwistedLucidity> I also doubt it's possible to have it generator multiple WARs in a single hit; not looked at that yet
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: it would be trivial to write a MOJO to do that
<intrbiz> and yes I would like to kill whoever though calling them that was a good idea
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: are you using modules to make up for 10 variants?
<awilkins> Is doing this in the build system the best idea? - yeah
<awilkins> That's just what I was going to say - sounds more like a job for Guice / Modules
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: As far as possible, yes
<TwistedLucidity> But there a few odds 'n sods which are just easier to yank from source control and spaff into the target folders.
<awilkins> 'tis possible to do this
<TwistedLucidity> The class, web templates, dependencies etc are all in Maven
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: worst case, writing a custom packaging plugin is pretty easy
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: Might come to that. I think part of the problem is the Ant/Maven interface
 * awilkins pukes in his mouth a bit at mixing Ant and Maven
<awilkins> Yeah, it's horrible
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: No choice
<TwistedLucidity> We have *got* to use Ant
<awilkins> The most seamless ways are to copy properties from Maven to Ant but it's a fiddle
<awilkins> That could use some love, TBH
<awilkins> Things that you would expect to "Just Work(tm)" don't
<TwistedLucidity> If I call "ant precompile package deploy" that ends up being at least three separate calls into Maven. Each time Maven check the sourc etc etc
<awilkins> Whoa, you're calling Maven from Ant??!
<TwistedLucidity> I'd rather just do "mvn war:exploded -Dfoo=bar" or whatever and let it run
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Yes
<awilkins> And I thought calling Ant from Maven was icky...
<TwistedLucidity> If I can convince people to ditch Ant at least for the Java stuff (we have dotNet and other stuff in the mix as well) then I'd be a happy man
<TwistedLucidity> If I can get Maven to generate multiple results....which should be doable via profiles. Maybe.
<awilkins> Should be able to do multiple executions
<awilkins> Don't know if you can execute multiple profiles in parallel or even series (without just ... starting the job again)
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Yeah, that's what we do now; multiples
<TwistedLucidity> I was thinking of trying to multithread it. Once the assets are in Maven, it's really just a case of assembly. There is no need to re-check source etc.
<awilkins> Break it up into multiple poms, one that installs the assets, one that assembles them?
<TwistedLucidity> That could work, couldn't it?
<awilkins> Give them a daddy POM for properties and version management, etc.
<TwistedLucidity> The Ant (yes, yuck) could got "Thread 1: mvn war:exploded -Dfoo=1", "Thread 2: mvn war:exploded -Dfoo=2" and so forth
<awilkins> Apparently you can also run multiple profiles
<awilkins> But I don't know if it does them in parallel
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: have you looked at the asembly plugin?
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: Tried to. Couldn't understand it
<TwistedLucidity> So gave up because I could get Ant to do what was needed in 5 minutes.
<TwistedLucidity> Time is also a serious factor
<TwistedLucidity> Says he, chatting on IRC.....
 * TwistedLucidity is testing. Honest.
 * awilkins has done assemblies before
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: with the asemlby plugin you can easily copy in files etc to an archive
<TwistedLucidity> Being able to parallelise stuff would be awesome
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: That's what I thought, but it didn't seem to be easy. Not a simple case of "source -> destination"
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: you specify via ant filesets what to include
<foobarry> the builders took off and threw away my hozelock fitting on my garden tap
<TwistedLucidity> I seem to recall it making zero sense when I read the Maven docs. <- See? someone who reads docs!
<foobarry> what do i need to buy please?
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: New builders
<foobarry> they are albanian, maybe hozelock isn't a thing over there
<foobarry> they also used my wifes facvourite dish to mix plaster
<TwistedLucidity> Why did they not have their own plastic mixer-tub wotsit?
<foobarry> all questions are null and void due to language barrier
<TwistedLucidity> Although plaster can be removed - you might get lucky
<foobarry> nope, long time ago
<foobarry> and then they left it inthe garden
<TwistedLucidity> Without wishing to rile you up...why did you hire builders you couldn't communicate with?
<TwistedLucidity> I may be misunderstanding...
<TwistedLucidity> I do that a lot.
<TwistedLucidity> See: Maven assemblies
<foobarry> i hired an essex man
<foobarry> but his grunt workers are albanian
<TwistedLucidity> Well, there's yer problem! :-)
<foobarry> the modern hierarchy
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, guess it's the way it goes.
<TwistedLucidity> If you got the builder via "Trust-a-trader" or soemthing; complain
<foobarry> they also didn't use our toilet
<foobarry> for the entire 2-3 onths
<TwistedLucidity> The used the dog's food bowl?
<foobarry> nope
<zmoylan-pi> his roses came up great that year :-)
<foobarry> a pile of leaves at the end of the garden
<TwistedLucidity> Deffo report the builder
<foobarry> what for?
<foobarry> they did a good job (except for the leaky roof)
<TwistedLucidity> Substandard work, and endangering public health.
<foobarry> with their poo?
<TwistedLucidity> Yes, their poop
<foobarry> i should have taken their crowbar as payment but i gave it back to them today
<TwistedLucidity> Embedded in a skull?
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins, intrbiz: I will go away and look and more discrete POMs/assemblies
<knightwise> ok
<knightwise> logged in over ssh via the terminal app om the ubuntu phone
<knightwise> too bad i dont have any function keys
<knightwise> ah i DO have function keys
<popey> :)
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: SSH into something and bring up some curses tools. Tell hipsters it's the prototype next-gen iOS. :-P
<awilkins> Then run cmatrix on it.
<zmoylan-pi> green text on black background for maximum hipsterness
<popey> hah, what's the best nerd thing to run in a terminal
<popey> moon buggy?
<popey> "We have the latest games!"
<popey> s/latest/best/
<popey> s/best/oldest/
<popey> s/the\ oldest/some"
<popey> etc
<zmoylan-pi> nethack...
<zmoylan-pi> i have tmux with split screens. one for irc using irssi and newsbeuter an rss reader as well. sometimes i split one panel to give a command prompt to get other things done...
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: bit.ly/HWTechMelodrama
<diddledan> there's very little info about it on that page but it runs several cli tools in a tmux session to recreate every hollywood computer visual ever
<diddledan> ok, maybe not recreate, but simulate
<popey> Did any of you play snipes on netware?
<popey> I loved that, one of the first realtime networked games I ever played
<popey> in ~1993 or so, maybe before.
<popey> http://www.infoden.in.rs/kepek/NSNIPES1.jpg
<popey> was awesome
<diplo> popey: dkirklands hollywood thing :) ref terminal app :)
<zmoylan-pi> dr-dos used to have a great vector based space networked shootem up... spacewars?
<MartijnVdS> Wheee! http://www.nealstephenson.com/news/2015/04/13/seveneves-excerpt/
<diddledan> re: dkirkland's hollywood thing - launchpad shows a package in distributions for vivid - does that mean vivid has it in the main repo?
<diddledan> ref: https://launchpad.net/hollywood/+packages
<daftykins> ah another dead disk owner discovered at bed time last night - http://paste.ubuntu.com/10819664/
<daftykins> i really ought to keep a tally ;)
<diddledan> well done, daftykins
<shauno> disks really don't like you, do they?
<daftykins> :P
<diddledan> daftykins: I'm working on something that'll let you find out. but time. I don't have enough
<daftykins> the user in #ubuntu was complaining of the software center repeatedly failing, and even command line updates claiming the package lists were corrupted
<diddledan> aah the raw read error rate is huge
<daftykins> it's the discover and pending state of bad sectors that's the true kicker :D
<daftykins> *discovery
<daftykins> that disk wouldn't function normally until a good dd zero fill to find and remap everything in one go
<bigcalm> Anybody good with bash know how to help me with this? syntax error near unexpected token `FILENAME="${f/$PRE_DEPLOY//}"'
<popey> http://www.reddit.com/r/Whatcouldgowrong/comments/32jrfn/display_my_gta_v_key_for_all_to_see_on_live/
<popey> ho ho
<popey> bigcalm: you have two different types of quotes
<popey> ` at the start
<popey> ' at the end
<popey> they mismatch
<daftykins> heh yeah i read about that one. some were a little bit too keen!
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> i don't understand that gta key thing
<ali1234> twitch has like a 15 second lag
<ali1234> so if he typed in his key and then hit enter, he'd already have registered it before anyone on twitch saw it
<ali1234> did he like type it in to the box and then go and make a cup of tea?
<daftykins> you know how with Steam it pops up to tell you your key? in the corner of the window
<daftykins> he had that displayed for ages
<ali1234> yes, but i have never needed to type that key in to play the game
<ali1234> i don't understand why that thing even shows up
<daftykins> yeah i've seen it on far more games than actually require it to be entered
<daftykins> but there are some like GTA which require an online account be created with it i think
<ali1234> so on GTA V, you buy the game on a DRM platform which tells you the key, and then you need to type that key back in so that the DRM platform will let you play the game?
<ali1234> doesn't that seem a bit...redundant?
<ali1234> i honestly don't understand why people put up with that stuff
<diddledan> ali1234: double DRM
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> ali1234: because if we DRM all the things twice then WIN
<diddledan> I loathe DRM anyway
<ali1234> i don't mind DRM as long as it isn't completely incompetent
<diddledan> most DRM _IS_ compltely incompetent tho
<shauno> I have a healthy distrust for it because I still play things that are 20 years old, and don't expect any of the current schemes to function in 20 years
<daftykins> because they want to play on PC ;)
<diddledan> I don't mind DRM on streaming provided that I can actually stream on my device of choice
<diddledan> shauno: yes, I don't like that a lot of DRM these days requires persistent connections
<shauno> not just persistent connections, but for their service to still be functioning
<diddledan> and of course there's the "OMG ONLINE"-only games that get their servers shut down because num-players < X
<diddledan> EA have done that a while back with a whole slew of games IIRC
<diddledan> randomness alert: Apple ought to release a proprietary version of IRC and call it iIRC
<diddledan> shauno: shush! I enjoy thinking!
<daftykins> years ago i got given a Mac - first task was a clean install of the OS - second was to find an IRC client
<daftykins> i was shocked to find pretty much all were pay-for, madness!
<shauno> it's not as bad as it sounds
<shauno> the 'wave' before that were all pretty much terrible
<daftykins> gotta run, pub quiz in 1hr the other side of the island - that's a whole 20 min ride away :D
<shauno> snak & ircle and such
<daftykins> ah yeah snak rings a bell
<daftykins> ta-ra \o
<diddledan> now we've got textual which is actually not bad, although a memory hog due to using webkit
<shauno> (although the most popular paid-for client currently is also floss.  you can buy it from the appstore, or build it from github)
<shauno> have fun
<diddledan> shauno: I paid for it even though it's OSS
<diddledan> shauno: I'm perfectly happy to support folk if they retain the OSS model
<shauno> heh, ditto.  because I'm lazy.  but it's nice to know it's all on github too
<diddledan> I don't mind proprietary either. but taking an OSS codebase and closing it is something I hate
<diddledan> yeah, paying for convenience is a good model
<ChunkzZ> pot, kettle, black - daftykins.
<diddledan> ChunkzZ: ?
<popey> 18:47 < ali1234> so on GTA V, you buy the game on a DRM platform which tells you the key, and then you need to type  that key back in so that the DRM platform will let you play the game?
<popey> no
<popey> you don't need to type the key in, but it puts it on screen for you to copy and save somewhere
<popey> (I certainly didn't type it in)
<ali1234> why would you need to save it if you don't need to type it in?
<ali1234> and why can anyone steal your game by just copying that number?
<ali1234> it's like "here's a number which is completely useless for any other purpose other than stealing your game, keep it safe"
<shauno> I'm still impressed that someone actually stole it though
<shauno> even if they did have some minutes to do so, they'd have to have a non-steam copy all ready to go, but not yet past the activation stage?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> bought it physical, installed it on two computers, waited for someone dumb to show their key on twitch
<popey> surely you can just click the button and say "add game to steam" and punch in the number, without having downloaded it
<popey> then download after
<shauno> hm, I didn't think of that.  I've only ever used that for redeeming humble codes
<ali1234> popey: doesn't that mean that if you buy it on steam it is infinitely transferable?
<ali1234> if you click "add to steam" and then type in your own CD key, does it make the steam server explode?
 * popey shrugs
<diddledan> is that like googling for google?
<diddledan> (my brother aparently did that a while back and accidentally followed an advert to a bad site)
<diddledan> he was looking for chrome I believe
<diddledan> http://gizmodo.com/every-wi-fi-router-should-look-like-the-uss-enterprise-1695903201
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> shauno: flaming sticks of fire: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html#.VQ3J2FyWtPY
<diddledan> 20 minutes
<shauno> oooh kerbalnauts *clicks*
<diddledan> that's expensive. thrust worth 1.3meelion pounds
<shauno> I'm not sure .... nm
<diddledan> d'oh the stream died on me
 * diddledan reloads the page
<diddledan> I don't like that they have a terminator count
<shauno> they really should get nasatv on the appletv
<shauno> it's a shame we can't have a launchpad.  we have lots of big empty bits with nothing in it
<diddledan> the auto sequence for the terminators has started!
<diddledan> I guess it's judgement day
<shauno> I hope not.  if they outsource the rapture to commercial interests, that'd be messy
<diddledan> lol
<Scorpians> o/
<diddledan> ello Scorpians
<Scorpians> o/ shauno
<Scorpians> <-- bomberman
<diddledan> shauno: Scorpians is from "the other place"
<shauno> hah.  ello
<diddledan> Scorpians: you'll have to watch your language in here, we're family-friendly :-p
<Scorpians> is english ok? well bad english?
<Scorpians> is binary accepted
<diddledan> yeah, just no swearing or mentioning of n0rty body parts
<diddledan> how old is this rocket? just wondering if it's allowed to smoke
<Scorpians> lol
<Scorpians> how exactly does it stay up? lower level clamps or is it sitting on its engine exhausts
<diddledan> KSP would have you believe it's sitting on theengine cones
<Scorpians> t- 20
<Scorpians> t10 GO GO GO GO
<diddledan> I think I'm slightly behind you
<shauno> I'm still at -15!
<shauno> no spoilers please :)
<Scorpians> ohh IT WILL SHOW us the stargate shots. if ya see one that looks like a stargate its in tank fuel camera.
<Scorpians> or is that ula?
<shauno> I hope they don't break this one.  it's carrying a very important espresso machine
<Scorpians> i wonder if it will actully land this time.
<diddledan> grr, the stream died on me
<Scorpians> check other channel i linked 3 the youtube and yourstream are ok
<Scorpians> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csVpa25iqH0
<Scorpians> no its the right side camra looked froze the left side was still moving
<Scorpians> Elon Musk
<Scorpians> â@elonmusk
<Scorpians> Ascent successful. Dragon enroute to Space Station. Rocket landed on droneship, but too hard for survival.
<diddledan> darnit
<diddledan> how hard is it to not crash considering they did it on the moon back in the 60s
<shauno> "landed too hard for survival" sounds a lot like "missiled the droneship"
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> indeed :-p
<diddledan> I guess they need yet another new barge
<Scorpians> problem is they cant save to much fuel or its wasted. they have to cary that reserve fuel up.  and coming down its controled by fins, last time it crashed as a fin failed.  if you watched the tests it full powers about 5m off the ground. if its not timed perfect or a wave hits the boat and pushes it up could be difference of crash and land.
<Scorpians> they should stick to there 2nd idea of landing on land.
<diddledan> why do they call them missiles when these days they rarely miss?
<shauno> I just imagine one guy at the back of the office jumping up and shouting "yeah,BULLSEYE".  and everyone else slowly turning to stare at him
<diddledan> hahaha
<Scorpians> lol
<diddledan> lol, that gave me a jolly good laugh
<diddledan> don't you love when you laugh out loud and feel an idiot because you're on your own with nobody nearby to hear you
<shauno> no.  I live on the internet.  I feel awkward when there *are* other people to hear me doing a goofy impression
<diddledan> grr, git is seriously weeing me off right now. I can't get it to push to company's git repo
<diddledan> it helpfully says: Write failed: Broken pipe
<shauno> isn't that ssh?
<diddledan> aye, I think it's the ssh side that's the issue, yes
<shauno> I mean, there's no reason it'd be unique to ssh; but I know ssh creates that exact message, and suspect it's mayhaps not a coincidence
<diddledan> yup, it's defo ssh
<diddledan> but as to how to fix it. pas d'idÃ©e
<shauno> that's generally where the docs give you "contact your system administrator"  :)
<shauno> can you ssh to the same box ordinarily?  (eg, should you be able to?)
<diddledan> yeah, I hate that when I'm the admin
<diddledan> I should be able to, but I can't - same error
<shauno> perfect.  add -vvvv when you try to ssh without git, and you should get more feedback than you could ever want
<diddledan> debug1: Requesting no-more-sessions@openssh.com
<diddledan> o_O
<Scorpians> whens 04-15 out
<diddledan> it seems to authenticate, then get down to spawning the shell which ends with: debug2: channel 0: open confirm rwindow 0 rmax 32768
<diddledan> then after a delay it prints the broken pipemessage
<diddledan> does ssh use more than a single connection?
<diddledan> e.g. like ftp
<shauno> good lord no
<diddledan> so all comms go over the initial connection attempt?
<shauno> I believe so
<diddledan> is just I got two internet addresses which are round-robin for outgoing connections to load balance between two ISPs
<diddledan> a single connection shouldn't hop tho
<diddledan> and I also set destination port of 22 to always go out a single route as an attempt to fix this
<intrbiz> diddledan: SSH channels are multiplexed down one SSH connection, channels in SSH are part of the procol, EG: shell channel, command channel, etc
<diddledan> intrbiz: that's what I thought
<diddledan> intrbiz: which suggests that my load-balancing shouldn't affect it
<diddledan> I can ssh other hosts fine
<intrbiz> diddledan: can you ssh, eg: ssh git@host to the server you are pushing too? (things like gitlab will give a MOTD etc)
<diddledan> no
<intrbiz> diddledan: what error do you get when you try that?
<diddledan> same
<intrbiz> do you have access to the server logs?
<diddledan> not without ssh
<intrbiz> can you ssh via another host?
<diddledan> err.. why yes
<intrbiz> diddledan: ssh via the other host and look at the server logs, might have some pointers
<diddledan> it seems syslog is dead but auth.log shows: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10823929/
<shauno> dead?
<diddledan> dead syslog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10823933/
<intrbiz> diddledan: has your disk gone read only?
<diddledan> nope
<intrbiz> diddledan: what is in dmesg?
<diddledan> hmm, there's some OOMs
<shauno> df & df -i ?
<shauno> (syslog not having a fd is just kinda creepy)
<intrbiz> diddledan: probably worth rebooting the box then, OOM tends to equal lots of instability
<diddledan> I don't have the access to fix it if it doesn't come back tho
<intrbiz> I've seen syslog get killed by OOM killer all to often before
<diddledan> I'll email the system owner
<intrbiz> diddledan: what git mangement stuff are you running?
<diddledan> right now I can kill-off several seemingly excess ssh: git processes
<diddledan> we're running gitolite
<diddledan> the issue with syslog seems to be that /dev is full
<diddledan> this is an ancient gentoo
<diddledan> it can't be upgraded either
<intrbiz> diddledan: sounds like its time for some TLC
<intrbiz> diddledan: move to gitlab?
<diddledan> not my machine
<diddledan> there's a plan to move to gitlab  but it never seemed to happen
<diddledan> gitlab was installed and populated and then.. nada.
<intrbiz> diddledan: ah
<shauno> dev is full?
<shauno> I assume something's writing to a device that never existed, so they're actually just filling a file?
<diddledan> shauno: no idea
<shauno> well, look for huge files in /dev  lol
<diddledan> aye. tty12
<mappps> ;]
<shauno> that's actually the kinda thing I'd do.  have syslog logging to a tty, etc
<shauno> but you kinda need a device that exists.  especially now with tmpfs, devfs, etc .. you're filling a ramdisk
<diddledan> yup, it seems syslog-ng is set to log to /dev/tty12
<shauno> I know it's not your box .. but I'd move that somewhere else (the existing file, so you can slap someone with it).  and see how much sanity is restored just like magic
<diddledan> fixed
<shauno> I mean, not logging there, or creating the device would be nice.  but if you're treading on someopne else's toes, at least letting it live until morning is nice
<diddledan> I just deleted the file and stopped the syslog from trying to recreate it :-D
<diddledan> I wonder if that will fix the ssh problem, too
<shauno> heh, that works.  I don't know what liberties you're allowed to take with the machine :)
<shauno> only one way to find out?
<diddledan> :-)
<shauno> (but it's probably related, if dev is full you can't create a new /dev/pts/foo
<diddledan> seems not to have fixed the ssh :-(
<shauno> oh well.  point the logging somewhere sane and you can start troubleshooting that without guesswork
<diddledan> absolutely zero helpful messages :-(
<intrbiz> diddledan: are the gitolite processes taking ages to run? is the SSH connection dieing because gitolite has not responded quick enough?
<diddledan> intrbiz: it seemsthe ssh connections are hanging around after the timeout on the client
<diddledan> e.g. http://paste.ubuntu.com/10824088/
<intrbiz> diddledan: you could try adding ServerAliveInterval 60 option in your git config for the host
<diddledan> ok, I think there's a problem with virgin media
<diddledan> switching my ssh to go via sky instead works fine
<shauno> really?
<diddledan> it's either that or my config for routing ssh to virgin was messed
<diddledan> I can flip it back and see
<diddledan> ok, flipping it back also worked so I'm guessing my loadbalancing must be a mess
<diddledan> I've added some more rules which should help with connection-stickiness
<diddledan> it seems that my previous rules weren't keeping a connection stuck to the wan it started on
<shauno> so, you broked it, and the fact the server was all kinds of purple was just incidental?
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> at least the server is less broke than it was after my forey
<shauno> well, I guess this is normal if you use gentoo on servers
<shauno> they're probably all messed up, you just never look :)
<diddledan> too scared to look morelike
<diddledan> you know they're misconfigured up the wotsit but if you don't look you won't be tempted to try to fix it
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-15
<daftykins> i see that strange fellow Chunkz has been highlighting me for no reason
<daftykins> always a shame with nutjobs run free online :(
<zmoylan-pi> the price we pay for free networks
<diddledan> daftykins: I have no idea what he has against you
<diddledan> daftykins: I asked him what he meant but he just quit instead of replying
<daftykins> *nod* clearly harbouring a grudge about the alleged Kodi conversation from a prior time
<daftykins> not to worry!
<daftykins> how are we all doing?
<daftykins> i'm just in from pub quiz night
<diddledan> good good ta
<daftykins> excellent!
<daftykins> and zmoylan-pi? i spy you in the corner there!
<daftykins> despite my post-ride-home wonky eyes
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> riding makes your eyes wonky?
<diddledan> no the booze prior to the ride makes his eyes wonky
<diddledan> :-p
<shauno> surely daftykins wouldn't drive & drive!
<diddledan> isn't there a law about drunk in charge of a bicycle?
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan> shauno: try that sentence again! :-p
<daftykins> diddledan: probably, but i don't know it - so i'm safe ;D
<daftykins> i even recorded part of my ride home
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> but it ended up being 600MB in 1080p 0o
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> that's a lot of emm bees
<daftykins> sure is
<diddledan> (I hate that foreigners say "emm bee" instead of MegaBytews
<daftykins> still uploading to the box of dropping, too
<daftykins> do they really?
<daftykins> what about French with their megaoctets
<shauno> there is a law about it, yes :p
<diddledan> the french are actually sort of sensible
<shauno> I like octets!
<daftykins> shauno: ah well we won't worry about that, likely Guernsey hasn't cottoned onto it
<diddledan> it's the indian subcontinent that's the problem
<daftykins> though as it goes in the tail portion of my video i notice a police van followed by a police car doing the rounds
<shauno> I don't like that bytes have nothing to do with words anymore.  it seems illogical to me that a 64bit machine uses 8bit bytes!
<diddledan> eh?
<shauno> so I like megaoctet, because it makes clear they're just measuring chunks of 8, regardless of the platforms wordiness
<diddledan> aren't all bytes 8-bit?
<shauno> I don't believe they always have been.  it just kinda settled into a convention at some point
<zmoylan-pi> or lots of nibbles
<diddledan> a nibble is 4bits
<daftykins> i remember answering a pub quiz question about a nibble being 4 bits?
<daftykins> that was up in Portsmouth though, when i was masquerading as a mainlander
<diddledan> you whart?!
<diddledan> bloomin' foreigners
<diddledan> coming here, answering our quizzes
<diddledan> how very dare they!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> best part was i tagged onto a group of ex school teachers who won every week practically
<diddledan> I saw "school" and immediately pre-read the next word as "girls"
<daftykins> how have you not been banned yet XD
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I'm not sure on that front :-p
<zmoylan-pi> they see how ugly diddledan is and take pity? :-P
<shauno> that's why he only comes out at night
<diddledan> :-D
<diddledan> where's tamworth?>
 * diddledan goes to teh googs
<daftykins> south west?
<diddledan> close, birmingham
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> can you tell i'm foreign yet?
<diddledan> a parcel just left there at 17minutes past the hour
<diddledan> it's due for arrival before noon according to UPS
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> UPS tracking is awesome
<diddledan> is a shame they don't do live gps
<diddledan> that would be awesome
<diddledan> allo knightwise
<ali1234> it would totally be possible
<diddledan> indeed
<diddledan> they already have the data internally IIRC
<ali1234> but people would probably use it to rob the vans
<diddledan> good point
<ali1234> yeah they absolutely have the data
<shauno> you can stalk DPD pretty well, and they don't seem to have any issues with it ?
<ali1234> only on the final leg though
<diddledan> I'm expecting the package to be coming down the M40 to london/slough area
<diddledan> maybe M6
<diddledan> then M1
<diddledan> so either M40 or M1
<daftykins> i've heard it's no fun up the M1
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> the A1M is pretty painful, too
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> wussat?
<diddledan> it's a motorwayification of the A1
<diddledan> is only a short bit of road before you leave the motorway-rules
<diddledan> but it clogs up
<diddledan> I last went on it to get to letchworth
<diddledan> there was an accident
<diddledan> helechopper and everything
<daftykins> :/
<diddledan> looks like my server just did it's nightly updates
<daftykins> auto reboot? 0o
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> what OS is that?
<diddledan> unattended-upgrades in ubuntu
<daftykins> ah i see
<daftykins> i chose no to a 14.04 but am kinda sad that i don't even get told there are updates now
<daftykins> i'll need to work out how to change that after the fact
<shauno> seems kernel patching hit the mainline kernel now?  perhaps that won't last much longer :)
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> annoyingly ubuntu seems to require a reboot for anything remotely central, despite being able to restart the service affected
<diddledan> e.g. libc won't update without a reboot, so even if the kernel gets patches live you still need to reboot for stuff ontop of the kernel
<daftykins> i did wonder if you seasoned veterans had some way of switching to a newer kernel without a restart
<daftykins> i thought someone claimed that was a thing once
<ali1234> it's called ksplice
<shauno> there was ksplice a few years back, but I think someone bought it and burried it
<diddledan> there's kexec which can swap out the kernel without actually forcing the hardware to reset but otherwise there's the proprietary ksplice as ali1234 says
<diddledan> shauno: oracle
<ali1234> kexec is a mess
<ali1234> pretty much guaranteed to never work :(
<diddledan> ali1234: yeah
<ali1234> the kernel nearly always expects the hardware to be in the reset state
<shauno> glibc I can understand though.  so many things link to it, that replacing it live is almost as heady as the kernel
<diddledan> yup, it runs through a shutdown sequence as normal but instead of killing the cpu for a reboot it just swaps the kernel
<ali1234> yes but nobody ever writes proper shutdown and startup code
<diddledan> and then runs through a complete reinit
<shauno> otherwise "restart every process that uses libc" and "reboot" really don't seem so different
<ali1234> they rely on the hardware being in a known state because you have power cycled
<ali1234> this is why kexec never works properly on arm boards, for example
<diddledan> shauno: it seems that any library which has more than one user will require a reboot tho
<diddledan> the ubuntu or debian devs seem to liberally apply the "must reboot" flag
<diddledan> on desktop if X gets updated they tell you that you NEED to reboot
<shauno> I guess it's just a bunch of trade-offs that you find yourself disagreeing on
<diddledan> despite beingable to kill X and restart it
<shauno> eg, the mess when everyone upgraded openssl but didn't restart any of the processes linked to it
<diddledan> yeah well that's just bad admin
<shauno> hence the trade-offs.  more and more distros presume a bad admin :)
<diddledan> it's turning into windows tho
<diddledan> for years we've highlighted the lack of reboots as a feature
<ali1234> welcome to six years ago
<diddledan> now we can't do that
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> ubuntu slowly trashed that since i started for sure
<shauno> I've never been convinced that lack of reboots is a feature though
<ali1234> it's even less important these days
<shauno> uptime posturing has always boiled down to people boasting about how long they've been running a known-vulnerable kernel for
<daftykins> when you really look at who cares about uptime, it is essentially kids on IRC + forums, right? :)
<diddledan> daftykins: yeah
<diddledan> email sign-off with an uptime or some image on a forum that pulls a live uptime every time it's loaded
<diddledan> and then there's IRC /exec uptime
<shauno> well, I think anyone who actually should care about uptime, ends up having a bunch of nodes that don't care about uptime, stuffed behind haproxy?
<shauno> so "their uptime" and "each machine's uptime" aren't the same thing
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> "the cloud"
<diddledan> "someone else's computer" :-p
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> if your service is only running on one machine you are doing it wrong
<shauno> it doesn't need to be someone else's :)
<diddledan> shauno: it does if you're gonna call it "teh clouds"
<ali1234> again, only if you are trapped in six years ago
<shauno> it's just the same thing we've done since before it was cool.  you don't have one dns server.  you rarely have one mx.  the service is bigger than the machines
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> the problem is now it has a name other than HA
<shauno> clouds and HA aren't the same thing :)
<ali1234> to me, "the cloud" means all the old redundancy tricks, except now with virtual machines
<shauno> I think there's some new tricks in there too
<ali1234> maybe a few
<diddledan> blob storage is a fairly modern concept
<shauno> scalability has changed a lot, with chef/ansible/whatever.  "we need more of foo" turns into a very automated process.  even one that doesn't require a person to decide
<ali1234> yes, but that's all the benefits of virtualization
<shauno> I mean, now it can be your load balancer that decides that it doesn't have enough workers and spins some more up
<ali1234> the only reason it was hard before was because someone had to buy a new computer and then set it up
<shauno> the other really weird one is being able to deploy to more than one cloud.  so you can have x availability in house, and if you reach it, you spin more up on amazon
<shauno> I know that's just VMs too, but it does lend some genuinely new tricks
<shauno> (burst scaling is fun too.  you don't need to be big enough for your busiest day, just an average day.  if you have one day a year that's crazy, you can spin up nodes for that day only)
<daftykins> who remembers this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAr8LmiTxCA
<daftykins> Byker Grove!
<shauno> I thought they outlawed that
<diddledan> there's some amazing fashion there
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> must require coats 24/7 up norf
<daftykins> i was just saying to a mate from across the pond that i wouldn't mind checking out the north!
<daftykins> part of me doesn't 100% believe that people speak like that
<shauno> oh you poor innocent soul
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i'm as southern as they come, almost
<daftykins> Jersey is a bit further
<shauno> look up bobby thompson on youtube
<daftykins> seems i'd have more chance with Rab C Nesbitt
<daftykins> and even then it's not a sure thing
<diddledan> I can't understand a thing in rab c nesbit
<daftykins> same here
<shauno> bobby sounds a whole lot like one of my uncles.  he's my go-to when I have to explain why I don't always understand him
<daftykins> i'd just find my dad giggling away to it on the TV most days
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdA26Bl0EEA
<daftykins> i don't get _any_ relevant part
<ali1234> really?
<shauno> might not help that a lot of the jokes are quite dated too
<daftykins> well i've always had issues with hearing speech y'see
<daftykins> might not help that my cat is currently asleep blocking the laptop speakers
<daftykins> head in the crook of my elbow
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> that said, if you want a laugh, turn the auto-subtitles on ;)
<ali1234> i think a lot of what he is saying is deliberate gibberish and that's the joke
<daftykins> oh :( well that's not funny then!
<shauno> really?  there's 2 or 3 bits where he wanders off into mumbles, but most of it seems fine
<daftykins> disk porn! https://www.dropbox.com/s/00bzkubbvat9hgx/IMG_20150413_190602.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> had to swap those over the other day, so many screws!
<diddledan> only 32 screws :-p
<daftykins> still :P
<diddledan> teehee
<daftykins> also had to remove 5 years of dust from the enclosures
<diddledan> yeek
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> what's weird, is i rsync'd the old array to new... created the same group + users
<daftykins> and yet i'm still seeing file permission issues on the Windows clients =/
<diddledan> maybe samba?
<daftykins> well, in some places it seemed to bring over folders but not +x the folders which was odd
<daftykins> i had no idea how i'd recursively add +x to both user+group for folders in a tree only, so i just nuked it and let the client PC copy over again
<diddledan> chmod +X /path
<diddledan> -R
<diddledan> chmod -R +X /path
<diddledan> -R is recursive
<diddledan> +X is execute on folders only
<daftykins> o rly
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> well, until i get an example of what they can't do i'm at a loss as to what's not working
<diddledan> so you can chmod -R +rX /path to add read and folder-execute
<daftykins> it seems on the old setup i had a create rule on the samba share to set everything as 0770, which i relaxed to 0660 this time - but i don't think it's working
<daftykins> that sounds like it wouldn't hurt to run across the whole path
<daftykins> both their users are members of the group, as well as mine, so all 3 of us should be able to mess about with things for the most part
<diddledan> if you only want it on user and group (not world) then use ug+rX
<daftykins> ho-hum
<daftykins> *nod*
<diddledan> so: chmod -R ug+rX /foo
<shauno> huh, now this I never knew.  I just find -type f & -type d
<diddledan> shauno: yup
<diddledan> shauno: I used to use that too
<shauno> oh nice, the +X thing is in bsd's chmod too.  even better
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> rock on tommy!
<daftykins> oh dear the hour hand is pointing at the 3
<diddledan> eep
<shauno> I've already given up on that one.  I work at 6.  now I don't trust myself to wake up in time
<daftykins> see i can sleep, but i'm a bit too good at it
<shauno> right.  I apparently need more practice at the whole waking-up-on-demand bit
<diddledan> I'm awesome at turning off the alarm in my sleep
<daftykins> i was only ever good at waking up on time if i knew i had a flight to catch
<daftykins> diddledan: haha, truly unconscious silencing?
<diddledan> more waking up just enough to figure out the kill switch and then asleep again immediately
<daftykins> yeah i do that :(
<daftykins> i actually have 3 alarms back to back, most days i don't even remember 3 going off
<shauno> touchscreens have helped with that.  they take to random flailing quite well
<diddledan> see,I'd just do it three times and still be asleep
<daftykins> yeah i do exactly that :<
<diddledan> I'd be most annoyed at having to do it three times, however!
<daftykins> have you guys just found forgiving employers that are ok with x hours put in whenever you can?
<shauno> the only trick I've found actually reliable though, is I also set 3 alarms.  quarter to 5, 5, and then 5:30 ..
<diddledan> it'll be a case of "widdle off I'm asleep dammit!"
<shauno> but set the 5:30 alarm to be my ringtone.  for some reason that throws my brain into a blind panic
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> I can sleep through 3 alarms, and then wake up when they call me to find out where I am
<diddledan> "boss is phoning!"
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> exactly!
<daftykins> erk!
<shauno> so I co-opted that trained panic into waking me up before he does
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> cunning
<daftykins> see i think this very conversation would have made my brain cotton on
<daftykins> so upon 5:30am it'd be like "heh, silly past me trying to trick sleepy me"
<shauno> I've read that setting multiple alarms is actually counterproductive though
<diddledan> you think "oh the next one will get me"
<shauno> right.  your trained response is that the alarm matters less.  the next one matters.  but if you're not awake enough to keep track, you're doomed
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> that's very true, i don't recall which one it is at any point
<diddledan> I think volume matters, too
<diddledan> and having neighbours that'll moan
<daftykins> and location? i have mine within arms reach of asleep
<daftykins> which is likely a mistake
<diddledan> yeah I do that too
<shauno> anyway, timers on my Hue lights seem to really help with this
<shauno> the first alarm goes off just to mess with me.  the second alarm is joined by my bedroom light coming on full with a blue tint that almost hurts
<daftykins> lights with colours O_O
<diddledan> automated lights no less
<diddledan> voodoo I tell ya!
<shauno> it's not so much coloured, more variations on off-white
<daftykins> surely Ireland doesn't have this technology?!
<shauno> (it can do coloured, I found it to be quite useless.  different whites are neat though)
<shauno> awww is north france getting jealou?
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> yes :(
<diddledan> jelly belly!
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/933m716t9zjw293/BF4.mp4?dl=0
<daftykins> pew pew pew
<daftykins> there's me Monday night
<daftykins> despatching shauno and his lights *whistle*
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> oh my word, cat breath
<daftykins> oh that's strong.
<diddledan> yey?
<shauno> that ... looks nothing like minecraft
<daftykins> i do not craft mines, no
<diddledan> it's minecraft 3d
<daftykins> much to one of those friends dismay
<diddledan> or minecraft real-d
<shauno> I've never really been into shooters at all. whenever I see them it's just like .. holy familyfriendly, people do this for fun?
<daftykins> i mostly gave in to buying this one to join those two mates playing it
<daftykins> went from terrible to not too bad, now
<diddledan> my experience of shooters is hearing the chainsaw on doom and running like a scared rabbit
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i used to love the way doom games didn't clear up the bodies, so a single room would just be littered
<shauno> see, doom & quake don't count :)
<daftykins> shauno: i bet it would horrify older generations who saw combat
<shauno> but I think the more they try to be realistic, the less interested I am
<shauno> I mean, I was playing yar's revenge this evening.  I like games to feel like games
<shauno> if I wanted reality I wouldn't be living on the internet
<daftykins> that makes me think of Tasha Yar
<Azelphur> don't suppose there are any Irish folks here that mind doing me a real quick favour? :)
<daftykins> shauno's close enough :D
<Azelphur> Haha
<shauno> que?
<Azelphur> Basically I just want someone to call +353-1-4361726 and tell me if it's still up, it's a PSTN gateway
<shauno> this is definitely a machine and not someone who's annoyed you?
<Azelphur> should be a computer that answers and asks you to enter a VOIP number
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> he's going to kick off a worm that brings down CTU
<Azelphur> shauno, it's definitely a machine (at least, it should be, it's a very old number)
<daftykins> i've seen this one in 24
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> it's one of the sipbroker PSTN gateways, but sipbrokers website is down (and for god knows how long) I got it from archive.org, so I'm wondering if it's working or not
<shauno> fast tones, it's not in service
<Azelphur> awh :(
<Azelphur> 0766-020026 is also listed under ireland, is that a mobile number or something?
<shauno> I'm not sure what that is.  it shouldn't exist?
<diddledan> that's a uk number
<Azelphur> really? I'm gonna try dialing that then lol
<Azelphur> see what happens
<diddledan> no wait
<diddledan> maybe it's one digit short
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> yeah the UK numbers i had during Uni time were one more digit on the area code bit
<shauno> it looks about the right length, if you assume that it's now 01766
<daftykins> like 07716 for O2
<diddledan> it might be a really old mobile number - some mobiles were one digit short back in the 90s
<Azelphur> it answered but that one has definitely been shut down
<Azelphur> shame, no break in for Ireland then, oh well, thanks shauno :)
<shauno> irish cells are all 08...
<Azelphur> for those that don't know, they are basically computers that have a local phone number and will forward your call to a VOIP line, so you can call a VOIP line from essentially anywhere using a break in
<shauno> just so you know not to 'test' those at 3:30am  lol
<shauno> oh hold up
<diddledan> ?
<Azelphur> really handy if someone is going abroad since they can essentially call my mobile as if it were a local call using a breakin :))
<shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dialling_codes_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Other_codes
<shauno> apparently 076 in RoI is "IP-based numbering".  whoever she is when she's at home
<Azelphur> shauno, makes sense since it's a VOIP service
<shauno> yeah, just didn't think of that because 07... is always north-west, and there's not 6 places up there lol
<Azelphur> http://web.archive.org/web/20150212074031/http://www.sipbroker.com/sipbroker/action/pstnNumbers is the site with all the fancy numbers :)
<shauno> okay, 076 602 0026 gives me same fast tones
<diddledan> surely if sipbroker doens't exist then their numbers won't either?
<shauno> (when it just goes 'boop boop boop' and hangs up)
<shauno> we don't get the same apologetic lady BT has
<diddledan> blueface still have a website
<Azelphur> diddledan, yea seems that way, looks like all the UK numbers are down
<Azelphur> such a shame, was a really really useful service
<diddledan> oh wiat
<diddledan> that's still via the wayback machine
<Azelphur> diddledan, nah I checked, they are still up
<daftykins> surely skype functions via a similar method to give low rate calls 0o
<Azelphur> just guess sipbroker is gone
<Azelphur> daftykins, yea but people can't call your Skype for free / local call
<daftykins> *nod* i've never tried getting a skype in number, not sure on the fees
<Azelphur> scenario being, gf going to Ireland on short notice, wanted to give her an Irish breakin so she can call me
<daftykins> it's kinda neat being able to text one way
<Azelphur> hehe yea
<Azelphur> been there done that
<shauno> I was just about to say, I'd throw up a skype-in number for a month, then kill it again
<Azelphur> yea may be my best option
<diddledan> http://www.blueface.ie/helpandadvice/useful-numbers.php#access
<Azelphur> good thinking
<shauno> although do look into whether it's actually worth it
<Azelphur> diddledan, yea, no breakin
<shauno> on my mobile, it isn't.  if I'm in the UK and I call a UK number, I get charged an international call (ie->uk) and international roaming because I'm not at home
<daftykins> same here
<Azelphur> yea
<daftykins> we pick up PAYG SIMs to handle England :P
<diddledan> skype ftw
<shauno> so an irish number might not work out best for her.  she'll still get stung, just twice instead of once  lol
<diddledan> unless she can find a payphone :-p
<shauno> lol .. good luck with that
<Azelphur> ^ or she is staying with family so just use their phone
<shauno> ah
<shauno> skype's maybe your best bet then, depending on what her parents have :)
<Azelphur> I used to use it for my game server people to call me too
<Azelphur> since anyone anywhere could call me as a local call, shame
<Azelphur> At least sipgate is still up so UK people can call my mobile as if it were a landline :p
<shauno> but no-one has landlines anymore.  they only care about whether you're in the same network as them or not :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> the boss seems to enjoy being on O2 for London usage now instead of Vodafone
<daftykins> says it's a lot better
<shauno> that's one I really wish the EU would hurry up and roflstomp.  they keep threatening to
<daftykins> so Vodafone must've really dropped the ball
<shauno> I've had a e1300 bill for roaming before.  it's daft.
<Azelphur> I love three for roaming, I'm in USA right now and I can do whatever I want for nothing
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> are you on some mental contract though?
<Azelphur> nope, Â£12.60/mo
<Azelphur> http://www.three.co.uk/Discover/Phones/Feel_At_Home
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> that might actually beat O2 for the boss' given business travel usage
<shauno> we don't seem to have that here
<shauno> "three like home" here gives you 2gb of data when you're roaming, as long as it's somewhere that also has 3
<shauno> which is basically nowhere useful
<shauno> austria, denmark, hong kong, italy, sweden, uk
<shauno> anywhere else it's 25 cents per mb
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> (inside the eu.  or 5eur/mb outside the eu)
<Azelphur> but yea I'm using mine all the time here in USA, I even made a call in Switzerland on the way
<Azelphur> feel at home is awesome
<daftykins> Azelphur: i looked up your cheap CPU comparison but down here in VAT free land the difference is quite low :(
<shauno> I'm kinda bummed that 3 bought out O2 here, because 3.ie is kinda terrible
<diddledan> shauno: I believe they did in the uk too
<Azelphur> daftykins, cpu comparison?
<daftykins> Azelphur: the US vs. UK price
<Azelphur> oh the CPU I posted ages ago
<daftykins> ja
<daftykins> i was always under the impression they are pretty pants in the UK due to their walled garden interwebs, though maybe that was years ago
<daftykins> (3)
<Azelphur> nah no walled garden afaik
<shauno> heh, they still have "planet 3" here
<shauno> it seems to be a weak version of yahoo, that happens to sell ringtones and java games, but doesn't count towards your data usage
<diddledan> shauno: https://vine.co/v/euEpIVegiIx
<diddledan> that's the stage 1 killing the barge
<shauno> I really want to see the next few seconds.  why on earth do they think vine is suitable for this?!
<diddledan> no idea
<diddledan> I don't actually know what vine is supposed to be
<shauno> as far as I can tell, instagram in video for people with ADD
<diddledan> I don't get why they can't youtube it
<shauno> because that's not social enough.  that's not where the all-important 12yo demographic is these days
<diddledan> and what's the point in looping 3 seconds of video?
<shauno> (and yes, that statement is almost as ludicrous as it is realistic.  it's depressing)
<daftykins> vine is a thing that shouldn't exist to my mind
<diddledan> I guess it's a gif?
<daftykins> what problem does it solve? :(
<shauno> 4am and mother decides she wants to chat.  people just assume I'm awake now :/
<daftykins> how is she up at this hour too 0o
<shauno> she's in the US
<daftykins> crikey!
<shauno> I just noticed on that vine link.  is "Just Read The Instructions" the name of the ship?!
<shauno> and man, /r/alienblue is getting hilarious.  ever since reddit bought it, the only things it's gained are a new appid (so if you paid for it previously, it doesn't count anymore), and a 'bug' that displays 'sponsored posts' way more often than intended
<knightwise> morning
<diddledan> wow. it seems googley shiny causes windwos 10 to grind to a halt
<diddledan> specifically when googley stainless-steel is open it can cause the entire system to enter IO/wait (it appears)
<mappps> hi alll
<mappps> morning;]
<diddledan> allo mappps
<mappps> time for me to watch silicon valley series 2 ep1
<mappps> quite a funny series..you seen it?
<mappps> :)
<diddledan> I think I saw one
<mappps> its good;)
<knightwise> anyone installed telegram via the command line yet ?
 * diddledan signals with some morse code
<knightwise> ...---...
<diddledan> I prefer candygrams
<diddledan> "candygram for mongo"
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/P8ciVBQixpU
<mappps> isnt telegram the secure im app
<mappps> i thought it was for phones?
<knightwise> yep , but it also works on the command line
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<MooDoo> howdy
<MooDoo> it's a bit quiet here lol
<diplo> MORNING!
<diddledan> morning
<diplo> :)
<diplo> knightwise: yeah I have
<diplo> Trying to integrate it into Nagios :)
<diddledan> diplo: nagios?
<diddledan> diplo: how would you integrate telegram with nagios?
<diddledan> oh for alerts?
<diplo> yah
<diplo> On particular customers using telegram-cli :)
<diplo> Sorta got it working
<diplo> Better than SMS, biggest issue is it's a daemon
<knightwise> i just need a way to install it on my raspberry pi
<diddledan> PI!
<diddledan> mmpie
<diddledan> (I created a function called "mmpie" in something recently
<diddledan> (a website)
<diddledan> specifically it was a sass/scss mixin
<diddledan> @extend %mmpie
<diplo> knightwise: telegram ?
<foobarry> Dear Sir/Madam,
<foobarry> Can you recommend a new main frame for me?
<foobarry> The requirement for the main frame is as follow:
<foobarry> price below 500 GBP processor must be at least i5
<diddledan> err
<foobarry> :D
<diddledan> foobarry: is that legit?
<foobarry> yes
<diddledan> yeesh
<awilkins> That person sounds like they are from a different era
<foobarry> and country
<foobarry> and universe
<awilkins> knightwise, What do you want to install on your Pi?
<knightwise> i run all mu commend line apps from the pi
<diddledan> main frame as opposed to mainframe is an interesting comparison to investigate
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Sell them an analogue computer.
<shauno> I have a wee script called mmmpi!
<diddledan> shauno: \o/
<diplo> knightwise: https://github.com/vysheng/tg
<diddledan> I wonder where my parcel is
<shauno> it's nifty.  it does a broadcast ping6 on my ethernet port, then tries to ssh to the reply it didn't recognise
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> so pi>eth->laptop, run mmmpi and you're in :)
<foobarry> something about sunshine makes me hungry and happy
<awilkins> shauno, That's a cool idea
<awilkins> Would you mind sticking that up on a gist?
<diddledan> "hey everyone, who's there? oh, who are you.. let me ssh-in and see what you're up to!"
<shauno> it'd be even neater if raspbian didn't disable ipv6 by default
<awilkins> Oh
<awilkins> Hah, doesn't fix the no.1 use case for it, sshing a new Pi
<shauno> right
<awilkins> You just have to know that it by default spangs a particular IP address
<diddledan> shauno: can't you do a v4 version?
<awilkins> v4 won't work as well because of address masking?
<diddledan> o_O
 * awilkins doesn't actually know
<shauno> http://pastebin.com/x1dRW8k9  (may contain macisms)
<awilkins> I had to fiddle around setting addresses manually to get a Pi / ethernet port setup working
<diddledan> the pi should auto configure an autoip when dhcp fails
<diddledan> (169.x.x.x?)
<diddledan> I forget the range they use
<shauno> also, may contain ugly :|
<foobarry> 169.254.
<diddledan> it's a standard mechanism
<diddledan> well done, foobarry
<foobarry> i hat ethat range
<foobarry> it means something is wrong :(
<awilkins> Which range does a wired ethernet port on Ubuntu select when it has no DHCP then
<awilkins> (don't know)
<foobarry> when DHCP is set and it can't find the server?
<shauno> that's why I like v6 link-local addresses.  if it worked, they have a link local address & a routed address.  if it didn't work, they still have a link-local address
<diddledan> awilkins: 169.254.x.x
<awilkins> So... it should work IPv4 then
<diddledan> it eitheruses that range or just dies
<diddledan> I haven't tried ubunut's network-manager in such a scenario
<diddledan> oo boon oot :-p
<diddledan> grr @ noisy people outside
<diddledan> hmm, wonder what they're up to - they gota sign with the virginmedia logo and they're cutting a long hole in  the road
<Laney> some kind of grinding going on here too
<diddledan> looks like they have a roll of fibre on the truck
<shauno> they're fixing your ssh :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> maybe they're gonna give me OMGLIGHTSPEED
<Laney> he's angle grinding some railing
 * Laney shuts the window :(
<diddledan> my blokes are doing that to the road
<diddledan> two grinders are running
<foobarry> perfect weather for it
<foobarry> wait for the 10am irn bru break
<diddledan> they'll only have been working for 30 minutes
<foobarry> soudns about right
<shauno> you can get irn bru in amazingstoke?
<foobarry> you can even get tizer
<shauno> is it in the world foods section in tesco?
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> is it called iron brew, or irn bru. i mean how should a southerner call it
<davmor2> diddledan: 2 grinders 8 of you 1 of me I make that pims o'clock
<diddledan> there's 8 of me?!
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Microvolunteering Day! :-D
<diddledan> micro volunteering?
<davmor2> diddledan: you are the 1 me
<davmor2> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xnfudWQqf0
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSvov8TVFgk or this one
<davmor2> diddledan: or this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk4ekuVVs94
<davmor2> popey: will like the last one
<popey> MooDoo: happy birthday
<MooDoo> popey: thank you :)
<awilkins> Dammit, Windows just ate half of the hour I had to work on something. Even after I gave it an extra virtual CPU! Ungrateful cur....
<bashrc_> Windows is high maintenance
<zmoylan-pi> i'm a big fan of how you can't use your windows system while it does updates unlike proper oses
<foobarry> especially when you boot out of windows to linux for a meeting
<foobarry> and the laptop is unusuable for the whole meeting because updates
<zmoylan-pi> 1 of 117 updates...
 * bashrc_ is glad he doesn't use Windows
<zmoylan-pi> see the german team that got relegated due to updates? http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/03/german-pro-basketball-team-relegated-to-lower-division-due-to-windows-update/
<awilkins> I am, alas, forced to use Windows because everyone else does
<awilkins> Yeah, I saw that story
<foobarry> i only have windows for vmware reasons
<foobarry> vsphereclientOS
<awilkins> I use VirtualBox
<foobarry> last had windows on my work desktop pre 2000
<awilkins> I keep it around for i) Games and ii) Compatibility with MS OFfice and our webconferencing software
<awilkins> Our webconferencing software keeps pretending they'll support Linux soon.
<foobarry> good luck
<awilkins> Meanwhile, even GoToMeeting is supporting WebRTC now
 * popey only has windows for GameOS and GameDevOS stuff
<awilkins> Shame that the boss owns a share in the one we use, they are going to get their lunch eaten
<zmoylan-pi> if god had wanted us to use webconferencing it would be available on linux :-P
<popey> my windows pc got an nvidia driver update last night, it has an optimal settings wizard thing which optimised GTA5 upwards, which was nice
<popey> wish we had that on linux
<TwistedLucidity> I wish nvidia supported GNU/Linux properly
<zmoylan-pi> didn't nvidia downgrade a driver at one point as the linux one had more features than the windows one? or was that some other manufacturer?
<TwistedLucidity> Can't recall. The lack of Optimus support from nvidia is a total embuggartion.
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQ3NDE NVIDIA Drops Linux Driver Feature Not Found On Windows
<TwistedLucidity> Yes, I know about Prime. But that requires a log-out.
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: nvidia are known for producing the same card and then locking things down in firmware. In fairness, they are not the only OEM to do that.
<zmoylan-pi> true, but to remove something because their windows driver doesn't is a new low
<bashrc_> disableware
<zmoylan-pi> and they irked that nice man linus, takes a lot to do that :-P
<TwistedLucidity> I can see why they did it (does make it easier for support) but Phoronix is also correct; the door should have been left open for end-users to go outwith support.
<TwistedLucidity> I don't think many large OEMs "get" the culture that many GNU/Linux users share "I'll tinker, I'll break it, and then I'll fix it - I just need the docs"
<TwistedLucidity> Reminds me, I need to send Verbatim a support email because their SSD docs contain zero info on block-size and I know for a fact the firmware is lying (no way it's 512bytes)
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't make them look cutting edge when some spotty teenager in their bedroom gets features working on their cards before they do
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: it's probably 4k
<popey> IBM were doing locking in firmware before most of us were born.
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Yeah, that's what I think too. But there's no mention of Erase Block Size either; so a support call it is.
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> phone all the people!
<TwistedLucidity> And that's where OEMs fail. The include marketing information, but no technical information
<TwistedLucidity> popey: The zero-ohm resistor.
<zmoylan-pi> the way ibm did it i was ok with.  you leased their equipment to do a certain task.  and while an upgrade was often a switch away it would affect how often it needed maintenance
<diddledan> yeah they don't care about technical people - they want to convince managers that they should buy new shiny
<zmoylan-pi> i think it more speaks about how we don't 'own' the hardware we buy anymore
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Which I am cool with. Just have a sodding PDF or a page at the back of the marketing blurb. Lenovo (for all the recent ills) are pretty good and giving you all the detail you could ever want.
<diddledan> then thosemanagers say to their tech team "here I bought you this! have at it!"
<diddledan> hmm, my dad bought a lenovo the other day. I forgot to check with him whether he's looked for superfish
<TwistedLucidity> It is a sweet SSD though. If I had time I would actually see if it has boosted the Pi's speed (but I mostly need it for the low-power storage)
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Depends on the model. Proper Thinkpads never had it, only consumer level. Best bet is nuke and re-install.
<diddledan> it's a desktop
<TwistedLucidity> Nuke and re-install.
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> try pc decrapifier
<zmoylan-pi> might save the reinstall
<TwistedLucidity> CCleaner too
<TwistedLucidity> Piriform do some powerful, and fairly easy to use, Windows tools. "Recuva" is a good, basic recovery tool.
<diddledan> oh, be careful with spybot search n destroy - dad (again) had issue with running it causing major slowdowns on internet access - turns out it dumps a shedload of entries into the hosts file
<diddledan> several hundred k-work
<diddledan> worth&*
<foobarry> only if you ask it to i think
<foobarry> if my 10yr old memory serves correct
<foobarry> malware bytes anti malware seemed better
<TwistedLucidity> It's trying to do a poor-man's network-level block. Thing is, how browsers react to that van vary.
<diddledan> and if you run a webserver on your local pc then more fun ensues
<diddledan> it points everything at 127.0.0.1
<TwistedLucidity> I have "pixelsrv" installed on the router, that coupled with some DNSMasq magic means the browser *always* gets a speedy and valid response for a blocked domain. a 1x1px gif.
<popey> http://imgur.com/gallery/KojPK oh my!
<awilkins> ^ re :god and webconferencing.... we were intended to use Wave
<awilkins> With a steadily richer variety of document / wavelet types available for each collaborative task
<diddledan> wave still exists under a non-google entity I believe?
<popey> it does?
<popey> I thought it was shut down and the people moved to other things
<awilkins> It's in the Apache incubator
<awilkins> But there have been noises about dropping it recently
<awilkins> The codebase is rather unwieldy it seems
<awilkins> there's http://wiab.pro as well (wanting to keep it running)
<diddledan> https://rizzoma.com/
<awilkins> There's an upswing in effort to try and stop it dying altogether, but yes, most of the core developers have gone (probably because they took the OT stuff and enhanced Google Docs with it instead)
<awilkins> diddledan, Shiny
<awilkins> diddledan, Hah, one of the default waves in that implementation is one of my pet ideas for wave (expressed by someone else)
<awilkins> Wave for Electronic Health Records.
<awilkins> Possibly because I commented on it back in 2010 and it still knows that...
<awilkins> Oops, 2009
<awilkins> Wow, Wave is old
<TwistedLucidity> Watched "Independence Day" recently. That's nearly 20 years old.
<diddledan> nowai
<awilkins> Still really dig Bill Pullman's speech
<diddledan> metoo
<diddledan> I got chills hearing that
<TwistedLucidity> Only issue I have with my home network is OS X. Open a web page takes over 2 minutes for initial load. Stupid thing.
<foobarry> i hate that film with a passion
<foobarry> its in my top 10 hated films
<awilkins> And think the last shot of the film should have been a statue of Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum with their wioves mourning them
<zmoylan-pi> i hate armageddon more
<TwistedLucidity> It's a terrbile film, but good fun.
<zmoylan-pi> oh i like 'bad' films but sometimes they are too bad.
<diddledan> oh no you did not shoot that green poo at me
<awilkins> It's total cheese. This is underlined by Brent Spiner's performance as the archetypical nerd scientist.
<diddledan> he's gonna be in the sequel
<foobarry> i hate the american habit of saving the world
<awilkins> As soon as you see that first shot of him you just go ... .OOOOh, it's not really taking itself seriously, is it
<diddledan> foobarry: isn't that what we keep them around for?
<zmoylan-pi> infecting the aliens computer with a mac...
<TwistedLucidity> "Blarg, we have travelled interstellar distances in our own lifetime at speed great than c. Commence the invasion!" "K'arg, should be encrypt our communications channel?" "Pfft....why? Use a basic binary countdown in the clear!"
<awilkins> In the sequel they should have the laughing skull of the virus be Steve Job's rotting face
<awilkins> Don't think the aliens were a faster-than-light culture
<awilkins> Sally from Oblivion was a similar (but technologically singular) kind of thing
<TwistedLucidity> "Blarg, we can hover ships larger that cities in the air with no visible force our technology prowess overpowers these vermin, commence the air assault!" "K'arg, should we enable 'friend or foe' detection and close the launch ports?" "Pfft...no."
<TwistedLucidity> "K'arg a ship we haven't see for nearly 40 local years has suddenly appeared, it's not responding to hail. Could be a trap." Blarg, let them in, let them in. It'll be fine. Trust me!"
<awilkins> It's like Armageddon. It's space opera. It's fun.
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: I more meant that if the movie were to be consistent, it would have been about 2 minutes log. Aliens arrives, humans dead, the end.
<awilkins> You take the needle off the record of disbelief and enjoy it.
<foobarry> its long and boring
<foobarry> james bond is ridiculous but fun
<diddledan> I've never been one to pick holes in movies - I appreciate them all for just a fun time
<foobarry> ID is boring and stupid
<zmoylan-pi> civilisation that has crossed between stars versus civilisation that got to the moon BEFORE putting wheels on suitcases... :-)
<awilkins> The aliens should have just used a mass driver and killed us all with a nuclear winter
<awilkins> Then colonised our planet for the resources
<awilkins> They've been flying between stellar systems for aeons, what's a few more thousand year?
<TwistedLucidity> Now, the concept in the book "Footfall" was interesting. The aliens were advanced, but had found the tech so had no real understanding. The produced things by rote, never changing. Their tech was more like holy relics.
<zmoylan-pi> in which case a simple virus to wipe out the humans would do the trick
<TwistedLucidity> But the humans could innovate. Made for a decent book.
<TwistedLucidity> Footfall: Niven & Pournelle
<zmoylan-pi> niven and pournelle do decent sci fi
<zmoylan-pi> old school
<TwistedLucidity> Armageddon was also dumb. Send up a bot, paint half the asteroid white. Job done.
<TwistedLucidity> Well, maybe not white; but reflective.
<zmoylan-pi> but we have all these nukes sitting around...
<TwistedLucidity> Wouldn't work.
<popey> Interstellar is quite good
<popey> watched that twice now.
<diddledan> I like that interstellar uses relativity
<zmoylan-pi> i like 2010, the monolith is just so far beyond our understanding
<diddledan> they left it open for a sequel too
<TwistedLucidity> It's an interesting concept and if you like that, check out "Predestination".
<TwistedLucidity> popey: ^
<popey> also, you should all read this comic, it's good http://www.reddit.com/r/ubuntu
<popey> er
<popey> stupid copy/paste
<popey> http://www.shigabooks.com/index.php?page=001 this comic :)
<popey> thanks TwistedLucidity
<zmoylan-pi> and if you like scifi with aliens that's fun, the fifth element... :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: heck yeah!
<diddledan> mooltipass!
<popey> Leeloo mooltipass!
<bashrc_> is Ubuntu still cool?
<zmoylan-pi> it's green
<awilkins> SUPERGREEN
<diddledan> soylent green!
<popey> ugh, chris pirillo
 * awilkins has ordered some Joylent Green
<diddledan> awilkins: that sounds joyful
<TwistedLucidity> "The Man from Earth" is also relatively enjoyable
<awilkins> THere's a US company that does "Soylent" a full foodstuff that you dilute with water
<awilkins> It's open-source
<awilkins> The EU version is Joylent
<popey> http://www.soylent.me/
<awilkins> That's the stuff
<TwistedLucidity> Urgh, so much JS to permit through.
<awilkins> On one hand, I'm a foodie and the idea of it disgusts me because it seems to suck all the joy from food
<directhex_> i find the concept of soylent rather depressing, but not everyone loves food
<popey> yeah
<awilkins> On the other hand, I acknowledge that I don't have the time to be a *proper* foodie all the time and this leads me to just throw crap into my face
<zmoylan-pi> at least they're not using the original recipie? :-)
<popey> friend of mine had a wife (now ex) who didn't enjoy food at all
<TwistedLucidity> It's the future, unless people stop sprogging.
<popey> we ordered pizza when she was round one day, she said no
<popey> i asked what i could make for her, what does she like..
<popey> ended up making baked beans on a pizza base for her
<diddledan> o_O
<awilkins> That's just broken
<diddledan> that's just wrong
<popey> ikr
<directhex_> wife has a friend who basically only eats breaded chicken
<popey> there's a guy who works on some free software project I can't remember, and he only eats bread and butter
<diddledan> ergh
<bashrc_> gosh
<popey> like _only_
<TwistedLucidity> If it's proper bread....
<popey> he is _tiny_
<TwistedLucidity> Not the standard UK loaf....
<awilkins> So : I ordered some because I reckon it will nourish me better during those times when I'm workaholic-ing and can't be arsed being a proper foodie.
<TwistedLucidity> But still...he can't be in good shape
<awilkins> Yeah, no way is bread and butter nutritionally complete
<zmoylan-pi> you can live on it a long time
<awilkins> "survive"
<diddledan> reminds me of the diet I had to undergo before getting my gallbladder removed - two weeks of milk. milk. and nothing but milk.
<directhex_> i am on a diet
<zmoylan-pi> no, live.  some people don't eat much, they get by on next to nothing.  and can do it for a long long time
<diddledan> not allowed any sugar in tea
<directhex_> but my diet is compatible with cheeseburgers, booze, and takeaway pizza
<diddledan> directhex_: I hear ya!
<diddledan> diddledan: cheeseburger for lunch today methinks
<diddledan> o_O
<directhex_> i've lost a stone in about 5-6 weeks
<diddledan> while eating cheesy burgers?!
<directhex_> yep!
<zmoylan-pi> throwing away the bread?
<diddledan> that's unpossible
<TwistedLucidity> And the burger and the cheese, only eating the salad?
<directhex_> easy peasy.
<diddledan> don't tell me you do the whole moving your body thing?
<zmoylan-pi> a mate is a body builder who live on junk food, but throws away the bread.  atkins fan
<directhex_> diddledan: yes!
<diddledan> dear god man!
<directhex_> diddledan: if i don't, i have to eat less.
<directhex_> diddledan: i can buy a mcdonalds double cheeseburger with 40 minutes on the exercise bike.
<diddledan> I need one of those
<diddledan> I don't mind cycling
<TwistedLucidity> A McDeath burger?
<bashrc_> what about a zombie shuffler?
<directhex_> and by 40 minutes imean 42 minutes
<directhex_> and by 42 minutes, i mean an episode of babylon 5
<diddledan> though I would need a static one so I can't fall off when I exhaust myself
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> bab5 ftw!
<directhex_> diddledan: i just got a fold-"flat" one from argos.
<TwistedLucidity> My host has a local network and a VPN connection. The VPN is stable. But for some reason the NAT connection the VM is using to access the VPN keeps dropping. Dashed irritation.
<popey> hah
<knightwise> hey popey , diddledan
<knightwise> popey: happy belated birthday btw
<zmoylan-pi> but if it folds flat how are you supposed to hang clothes on it?! :-)
<davmor2> JamesTait: Microvolunteer day you say.....okay I volunteer to microwave you I don't know why you'd want me too though but hey I'm not going to argue
<popey> thanks knightwise
<TwistedLucidity> Seems a bit better now I'm running "ping -t <server>". I wonder what's going wrong...host and VM are Windows. That's probably the answer....
<davmor2> MooDoo: man now you are as owld as popey again for a moment it must of felt great to be young again ;)
<knightwise> i've seen statues on easter island younger then popey
<popey> !
<knightwise> just like popey they were only partially excavated :p
<davmor2> knightwise: dude that's harsh, funny as hell, but harsh ;)
<knightwise> Just kidding :)
 * knightwise loves popey ! 
<davmor2> popey: on a plus side you still have more hair that me and MooDoo put together :)
<knightwise> if we include popeys back that is ..
<bashrc_> :)
<zmoylan-pi> what if count your backs? :-P
 * knightwise is very proud of his chesthairs
<knightwise> all three of them
<foobarry> i have three too
<foobarry> and daddy long legs sprouting out of nipples
<Myrtti> did I link to this earlier? https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/linux-essential-details-like-zones-road-previews-not-rendered-in-game-hack-workaround.844896/page-2
<popey> nope
<Myrtti> I'm playing Cities:Skylines on my XPS 13 now ^____^
<Myrtti> well not now, obviously
<Myrtti> but I could if I wanted to
<popey> heh
<zmoylan-pi> multitask better :-P
<Myrtti> I should multitask to kitchen to get more coffee
<awilkins> I am a very hairy person
<awilkins> Not quite Robin Williams levels of hairy
<awilkins> But hairy
<diplo> TMI
<foobarry> its called fur
<davmor2> awilkins: pfff that amateur
<awilkins> Poll : alternative to Xenu Link Sleuth that's i) OSS and ii) Not Windows-only
<foobarry> awilkins: wget?
<awilkins> for the purposes of link auditing? ew.
<foobarry> wine+xenu?
<foobarry> does not fulfil 1)
<foobarry> linkchecker-gui
<foobarry> https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/precise/linkchecker-gui/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc_> morning
<bigcalm> popey: could you lob me your .exe sometime today please?
<popey> is that wise?
<bigcalm> I dunno
<popey> dunno if it has some key in it
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<bigcalm> I'll kill my install and re-download
<popey> tried searching online for fixes?
<bigcalm> Yes, nothing apparent other than people complaining that they have the same issue
 * bigcalm grumbles at being in the office for the 3rd day running
<bigcalm> Can't do anything until tonight
<bigcalm> If Steam could maintain 12.4MB/s, I should be able to redownload in 1 hour 22 minutes
<zmoylan-pi> they should have a monthly magazine and put it on the cover... on an audio casette... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> but it does sound like a perfect job for torrents
<Myrtti> http://uptime.is/99.98
<diddledan> Myrtti: secret alien tech?!
<zmoylan-pi> only responds to macs?
<davmor2> bigcalm: but you chose to go to the office :P
<foobarry> had a fire alarm in the sunshine
<popey> Convenient
<foobarry> was nice. except that i had just reloaded the firewall
<popey> ice lollys?
<foobarry> was my first thought
<foobarry> but shop was far
<zmoylan-pi> and foobarry was far away...
<zmoylan-pi> no cool pops in canteen freezer to grab on these occasions? :-)
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> i fear the sun will be going away for 2 months
<foobarry> i have a man laying a patio on saturday so i expect rain
<zmoylan-pi> and you need a plastic skeleton to bury under the patio for future excavators... :-P
<foobarry> my neighbour 2 doors down threw a half moon edging spade in the skip
<foobarry> my wife asked if she could have it
<foobarry> the neighbour said yes please, i would be nice to return home
<foobarry> turns out it belonged to the original owner of my house :)
<popey> hah
<popey> when we first moved in, we filled in the pond (wife hates ponds, dangerous for toddlers) and a neighbour came round "oh, hello, how are you settling in?"
<zmoylan-pi> ask if they have the superman issue #1 that belonged as well... :-D
<popey> I wanted to say "other than undoing all the stupid stuff the previous owner did, fine!!" but just said "fine" instead.
<popey> Turns out he was the previous owners brother.
<popey> glad I bit my lip, he was quite a brick outhouse
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> ponds are bad
<foobarry> a bad thing happened to a friend
<foobarry> and their kid :(
<foobarry> its jsut not worth it
<davmor2> popey: you say "Convenient" like he triggered the alarm
<mappps> i like ponds
<mappps> :)
<mappps> Don't have a garden anymore so can't have one anyway ;[
<foobarry> we usually get fire alarms around exam period
<foobarry> but there are some men replacing all the doors with doors 1mm thicker
<foobarry> doing the regular door replacement scheme for fire regs that absolutely nobody else bothers with
<foobarry> a colleague has the stupid whistle notification on his phone, and literally received 20 in a minute
<mappps> lol
<foobarry> he doesn't realise his colleagues want to stab him
<foobarry> he spends all day eating
<davmor2> foobarry: feed him the phone
<awilkins> Put his phone in a metal biscuit tin
<awilkins> We used to do that for a manager that left his phone in his office
<awilkins> Faraday cage. No more notifiers.
<foobarry> he's at his desk
<foobarry> it would have gone out of the window otherwise
<foobarry> no awareness of the annoyance caused
<mappps> gone over my 3gb 'unlimited' allowance..they slow it down but i guess its not too bad
<mappps> 20kB/s
<mappps> o2 used to cap it to like 1kB/s when you went over
<mappps> at least with 20 can still access email/whatsapp/websites/skype
<foobarry> google services eats all my data
<foobarry> can't turn it off or i don't receive hangouts
<mappps> :(
<mappps> how much you get
<foobarry> 1 GB :(
<mappps> i get 20gb 4g with ee..but thats no good to me here ;( wish i could change that to a few gb of roaming data
<foobarry> nope, 250MB
<mappps> why not get more;p
<foobarry> because i spend all my money on nappies
<mappps> =[
<foobarry> this smarties easter egg came with smarties inside but not in a bag
<foobarry> so you crack it open and smarties everywhere
<zmoylan-pi> smartie bomb...
<foobarry> now they are in my belly
<foobarry> i wanted the egg first
<zmoylan-pi> safely disarmed...
<mappps> grmpf
<mappps> raining here
 * mappps slaps foobarry around a bit with a large trout
<mappps> oops
<mappps> almost time to walk to the gym too ugh
<zmoylan-pi> can't you take a taxi? :-)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm in the office today because lornajane is
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm telling your wife of you going into an office just cause there is a girlie there ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: my wife is here too
<diddledan> pic.twitter.com/W8kasKBlCI
<bigcalm> davmor2: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/588369546421108736/photo/1
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahaha
<ne2k> I am using 14.04 desktop. I am running spotify's official package. I can play and pause spotify using the sound menu and using a key mapped to Play/Pause using keyboard shortcuts (the Pause key in this case).
<popey> Good for you! :D
<popey> (so can I)
<ne2k> if spotify is playing, xdotool key XF86AudioPause and XF86AudioStop both have the desired effect, but if spotify is not playing, xdotool key XF86AudioPause and XF86AudioPlay have no effect
<ne2k> any idea how to debug what is going on here?
<popey> is spotify open but not playing?
<popey> works here...
<ne2k> popey, yes, it is open and paused. if I press the keyboard key, it works. if I press the button in the sound menu, it works. if I press the button in spotify, it works. but if I run xdotool key XF86AudioPlay or XF86AudioPause, it makes no difference
<ne2k> it does not start playing
<popey> well, play works, pause doesn't
<popey> stop does
<popey> odd
<popey> maybe ask them in #spotify?
<popey> I dunno
<ne2k> I am also running spotcommander and blockify. I wonder if either of these is making a difference
<ne2k> I will stop them and see
<popey> hah, good luck getting any support in #spotify then
<ne2k> bizarre. I closed all three, and reopened spotify, and now the keyboard key is not working
<ne2k> I'm guessing the commands get to spotify via dbus
<ne2k> realized I didn't quit blockify cleanly. it has a bug whereby if you press the [X] it doesn't shut down properly
<popey> You'll have to ask someone else.
 * Myrtti has just paid for Spotify for the benefit of using it on Linux for years like a good girl would
<Myrtti> also offline mobile playlists.
 * zmoylan-pi hugs my fm radio...
<ne2k> https://community.spotify.com/t5/Help-Desktop-Linux-Mac-and/Linux-dbus-bug-calling-Play-has-no-effect/td-p/482822 popey
<ne2k> whaddya know!
<ne2k> qdbus has the desired effect -- good stuff
<Myrtti> I listened to the radio yesterday, although online since I don't have a radio at bedside
<popey> bigcalm: does your windows username contain a hyphen?
<Myrtti> listened to the local candidates talk about immigration - that was a fun listen. They had a UKIP candidate who was a second generation Polish immigrant.
<bigcalm> popey: no, it's my 1st name
<popey> just a thought
<bigcalm> Aye
<bigcalm> popey: just remembered that I have LUG tonight. Won't be able to poke it until tomorrow now :*
<bigcalm> :(
<popey> directhex_: may know of magic ways to make steam games not un-work
<popey> awwww
<popey> I'll play for you.
 * popey opens it
<bigcalm> You do that :P
<bigcalm> directhex_: for context, my GTA V is missing PlayGTAV.exe
<directhex_> right click game in library, properties, local files tab, verify integrity of game cache
<bigcalm> directhex_: did that and it passed
<bigcalm> directhex_: actual issue is that loading from Steam makes the game mode selection box appear (Play GTA V, Play GTA V Online). Selecting either option closes that box and then doesn't do anything else
<directhex_> just for lulz, try creating a new windows user and login as them
<bigcalm> directhex_: I'd have to redownload the 59gb
<bigcalm> ?
<directhex_> no, windows stores games in c:\progra~1
<awilkins> By default
<awilkins> My Steam folder is j:\Steam
<bigcalm> Okay
<bigcalm> I'll try tomorrow
<ArthurGrace> AlanBell, Just wondering how that Raspberry Pi project is coming along ? i.e. Now that UbuntuMate is on the raspberry ...
<daftykins> MATE is? on all models or just the 2?
<ArthurGrace> I think it's just the 2.
<daftykins> makes sense, given the ARM level
<ArthurGrace> slow as watching paint dry though.
<ArthurGrace> is AlanBell ever on this channel ?
<ArthurGrace> gone quiet over the last 12 months.
<ArthurGrace> Screw this, what am I wasting my time here for ? Sod this !
<directhex_> use wayland on pi if you want speed
<daftykins> what an odd attitude on that chap
 * brobostigon makes a note of wayland on pi.
<ali12341> you might as well use dispmanx directly
<ali12341> wayland on pi is pretty buggy
<popey> MATE on Pi2 is surprisingly usable.
<popey> (if that's what you want)
<ali12341> yeah but you need pi2 :)
<roy_> hello everyone :)
<roy_> Is there any linux app that show the disk usage like what we see in windows right after clicking the MY COMPUTER icon.???
<popey> roy_: on ubuntu there is an app called "disks" which shows you how much space is used
<davmor2> roy_: there is system monitor also
<davmor2> roy_: open the dash and just type in system and that will give you a tool similar to windows system monitor.  then if you need more in depth stuff disks is definitely the place to go :)
<roy_> thanks popey & davmor2, Disks utility was not pre-installed in my ubuntu studio, I have installed it from software center & it serves my purpose very well. Thanks friend. :)
<roy_> yup system monitor is awesome too.
<roy_> thanks again mate.
<roy_> Recently I went through an article about ubuntu 4.0 kernel. Will it support on my 14.04 ubuntu studio?
<roy_> I have never tried installing kernels manually!
<roy_> have you people tried the new kernel?
<roy_> sorry. its linux 4.0 kernel
<ali12341> it was only released like 2 days ago
<davmor2> roy_: most likely won't land on 14.04.  14.04 is an LTS so that will add security patches but not new stuff.
<davmor2> roy_: 16.04 will likely be based off of a 4.x kernel branch
<roy_> then which distro is best for tinkering with linux?
<roy_> which distro are you using at the moment davmor2?
<davmor2> I'm on 15.04 but then I'm in QA so I'm trying to break it, Ubuntu won't get 4.0 kernel till next release 15.10 but that is because it landed way too late in the cycle for this release
<roy_> gotta go mate. nice meeting you. have fun. bye. :)
<davmor2> popey: look at the picture of clegg in the news scope, is it me or is his policies to sell you ms windows
<diddledan> evenin
<daftykins> hello sir
<mappps> my oh my
<mappps> again..go out in public and i just wonder how some people manage in life
<mappps> went to a bar opposite me to watch the champions league..group of young english chavs there..1 girls about 18 with a kid and talking about getting her childs ears pierced
<mappps> now..the child can only be id guess ~ max 6months old?
<mappps> im no parent..but seems like a bad idea:)
<daftykins> ;/
<mappps> maybe i'm wrong;P
<mappps> i then heard her friend say 'dont trust google' when talking about finding information for parents online
<mappps> do they not realise google isnt the actual source
<awilkins> I've stopped being surprised at the level of ignorance people have of technology
<awilkins> And the youth of today are less equipped to understand it than us older folks
<mappps> i expect these kids will grow up to be contributing members of society..not
<mappps> honestly this was like being in Stoke/Manchester..thick english chavs
<daftykins> mappps: how are these types making it to Gib 0o
<mappps> I'd be shocked if any of them had any education between them
<mappps> daftykins i wondered
<mappps> we're paying Â£1600 RENT
<mappps> my mate pays Â£1200
<mappps> etc
<mappps> but then i was told by a guy that lives here that locals and people 'in need' get council housing..like UK..but the diff being its a lot cheaper..80-100 quid a month
<mappps> locals get access to it by just being local
<mappps> but if i had kids and turned up here i think i could apply
<mappps> no other way they could be here..you get a feel for people by the way they speak and appear..sure its not always right..buti figured this girl was trash then i hear her say '#when i go back to work'
<mappps> and why are they all out in a bar with 3 kids under 1 year
<mappps> my parents wouldn't have dreamed of taking us out to some dump that young
<daftykins> i always thought most bars had no-kids rules :>
<mappps> seemingly not these days
<mappps> what would the benefit survivors do
<mappps> they wouldn't be able to go to the bars/pubs during the day
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-16
<knightwise> morning peeps
<mappps> morning Knightmare
<mappps> knightwise :)
<mappps> zmoylan-pi diddledan daftykins lurking?;)
<knightwise> hey mappps , how are you doing todya
<mappps> not bad..just finished work *7am local time ..gonna watch the americans
<mappps> you watch it? brilliant show imo:)
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you knightwise?
<knightwise> doin ok :) Crapload of work for the client but .. whats new
<MooDoo> yeah i here ya buddy
<knightwise> mostly useless paperwork stuff
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc_> morning
<MooDoo> mornig
<brobostigon> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy High Five Day! :-D
<bigcalm> JamesTait: ^
<bigcalm> Sorry, that was a high 6
 * davmor2 holds his hand in the air and waits for JamesTait to get the step ladder out to slap it
<JamesTait> Oi! I'm not that short!
<davmor2> JamesTait: okay box
<JamesTait> Anyway, davmor2, you want to be careful lifting your arms that high, what with your bad back. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: no it's safe I tried it out first :D
<JamesTait> bigcalm, (ï½ã»_ã»)ãã½(ã»_ã»ï½)
<bigcalm> :D
<JamesTait> I wonder why my gnome-terminal with irssi is showing up as Files in the switcher. :-/
<davmor2> JamesTait: cause you broke it
<JamesTait> davmor2, you mean I'm doing your job for you now? :-P
<diplo> rah! Got Nagios sending alerts via telegram... win!
<davmor2> JamesTait: welcome to my wonderful world of what breaks next
<foobarry> diplo: is there a documented process?
<diplo> Nope, but I can write one :)
<diplo> It's only taken me a few weeks :D
<diplo> Do you use Telegram foobarry ?
<foobarry> no, but i would bookmark the documentation for consideration of using it :D
<diplo> heh, well I'll refine for now then as it's not perfect yet... but is working :)
<foobarry> telegram is like whatsapp,yep?
<diplo> yeah but opensource
<diplo> Much prefer it! Most of my mates have moved to it now
<popey> \o/ Telegram
<diplo> + desktop app! and telegram-cli !!!
<foobarry> i've never had any success with fringe apps
<foobarry> because mates don't use them
<knightwise> i have it on the phone ...
<foobarry> but i could use this for work chat
<foobarry> and also nagios integration would be good
<diplo> It's not fringe anymore, taking away a lot of Whatsapp users
<foobarry> is the API easy?
<diplo> They've had millions of people signing up
<popey> I'm in a telegram group with 114 people in it
<diplo> Umm easy, no...
<foobarry> i have a bot that i'd like to talk telegram
<diplo> yeah we have some large groups
<diplo> foobarry: Code out there for that already, check on github
<diplo> Just started playing with telepy
<diplo> Not fully implemented yet though
<TwistedLucidity> Morning.
<TwistedLucidity> I appear to have spinning rust from the furture! dd is telling me the transfer speed is 2.1GB/s :-S
<TwistedLucidity> I don't think I am testing what I think I am testing.....
<davmor2> \o/ telegram \o/
<knightwise> ok , just need to get it working on the raspberry pi
<diplo> I run on my laptop, cli works suprisingly well on the server too
<knightwise> i seem to have in installed
<knightwise> ive started the telegram-daemon
<knightwise> but .. now what ?
<davmor2> diplo: the app on the phone is actually nicer than the one on android :)
<TwistedLucidity> Quick Pi question - is a 2MB/s WiFi transfer speed typical?
<foobarry> 16Mbit/s?
<diplo> knightwise: ./telegram-cli is what I run
<diplo> msg <username> message here
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Aye
<diplo> Or msg user#idhere
<knightwise> diplo: hmm.. no such file
<diplo> On UT ? davmor2
<davmor2> diplo: yeap
<diplo> CLI on the PI knightwise ?
<diplo> https://telegram.org/dl/cli
<diplo> yeah, going to try UT soon
<diplo> https://github.com/vysheng/tg <-- What I use knightwise , configure and make once you have deps installed
<knightwise> do i do the git clone in the /etc directory ?
<TwistedLucidity> Using a 150Mbit/s dongle, lappy has a 270Mbit/s wireless; so neither of those are an issue. Both on N. Bit puzzled as to why it is so s-l-o-w...
<diplo> I didn't no, I ran it from the user that was running it for me
<knightwise> ok , but that user doesnt have sudo rights on my system
<diplo> I actually grabbed the zip at the time as I couldn't install git on the machine I was running it on
<knightwise> is that a problem ?
<diplo> Wasn't for me as long as deps were previously installed
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Telegram looks like all shades of awesome
<TwistedLucidity> The image for "Open". Much lol
<diplo> And they put improvements in all the time
 * TwistedLucidity doubts the URL would be suitable for a 'family friend'y channel
<knightwise> diplo: running it now
<knightwise> doing the ./configure command
<knightwise> and running the make command
<knightwise> takes a while on the pi :)
<diplo> Took a fair while on my server :)
<knightwise>  so who wants to add me ?
<popey> I'm popeydc on telegram, feel free to add me
<diplo> andy_p for me :)
<diplo> That's an underscore if it doesn't show :)
<foobarry> seen this? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.handwriting.ime
<knightwise> diplo ?  you @diplo ?
<diplo> andy_p is mine
<diplo> foobarry: Mate is using it currently
<knightwise> ok, now i just need to get the wife to use it :)
<knightwise> so we can get away from googletalk
<diplo> Got my whole family to move to it, mum doesnt have a smart phone but you can still do it. Installed on her N7 with her mobile number as the contact
<diplo> Have a family group etc
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: The Palm Pilot is risen!
<popey> yeah, we have a family group too
<popey> \o/ Palm!
 * popey still has a Palm T|X which I boot up now and then
<popey> then remember it can't do WPA, so it is useless
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Telegram is on public servers; yeah?
 * zmoylan-pi has a palm tungsten e somewhere about
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Is some ways the Palm (and a few others) were ahead of the network infrastructure curve.
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: the good old days
<diplo> Yeah, well run by telegram yeah
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Thought so. Wonder is if a private instance could be hosted...I could do curious things with that...
<diplo> not afaik
<knightwise> TwistedLucidity: start your own secret empire ?
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: No. ECMS integration. I did one on StatusNet ages ago. Plan was to, in the end, allow users message the ECMS system to get it to respond.
<TwistedLucidity> Kinda lost steam though
<knightwise> ecms ?
<TwistedLucidity> Enterprise Content Management System. Ma-hooisve object stores of every version, of every document that a business uses.
<TwistedLucidity> Version control for suits.
<TwistedLucidity> Ouch. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/15/virginia-hacking-voting-machines-security
<foobarry> i need to root my device to use a ps2 controller with android? :(
<foobarry> http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/33112/how-to-use-generic-usb-joysticks-in-android-via-otg
<directhex_> collecting new car tomorrow afternoon
<knightwise> ok , i have telegram setup but .. how do i configure it ?
<knightwise> i have don the telegram-cli -k public key thing but ...then what ,
<knightwise> ah
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Get prompted for your number ?
<diplo> Should send an alert to your phone with a code
<knightwise> diplo , i just sent you a msg
<knightwise> got the alert :)
<diplo> not had it yet
<knightwise> can you send me one ? @knightwise
<diplo> Sent
<knightwise> got it
<knightwise> i must have the synthax wrong
<knightwise> isnt it msg @andy_p test ?
<diplo> Nope, no @
<diplo> afaik, but I've not tried with usernames before
<diplo> All the people I contact are in my contacts
<diplo> Could try contact_list andy_p
<diplo> It'll give you a ID, so you can msg user#numberhere message here
<knightwise> ok , so i sent you a couple of messages but it doesnt look like they are getting through. i am seeing notifications that you are going online / offline all the time
<diplo> Have you tried the above ?
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like marketing speak...
<diplo> foobarry: Stuck the files in my git repo ( very new to git! so hope it's ok! )
<diplo> Let me know if you want the link, it's the first iteration of the files, defo needs some work
<foobarry> yes pls, u can PM it if you like
<foobarry> we bought github enterprise for inhouse github server
<foobarry> its github but onsite
<diplo> Done if you haven't seen, oh nice.. my place won't spend money, I've done this because I had trouble getting it work properly... it's by no means perfect though! Going to improve on it over the weeks
<foobarry> its actually a bit annoying to deploy
<foobarry> quite non standard
<diplo> The cli thing?
<knightwise> aha
<knightwise> i seem to have telegram running
<popey> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> send a postcard or something... :-P
<knightwise> popey: but how do i add you to my contact list ?
<popey> add my phone number or @popeydc on telegram
<knightwise> hmm.. i can open a new chat with you on the phone app
<knightwise> but that doesnt put you in my contact list apparently
<diplo> Only way is to add number to get in contact list afaik, you can just message people via the username
<knightwise> aha , so i need popeys number instead of their username ?
<popey> my phone number is quite widely known :)
<diplo> I believe so yeah, can still message.. just can't save afaik
<zmoylan-pi> ask the nsa, gchq, kgb... :-)
<knightwise> and my raspberry pi has another command line app to overload its busy cpu :)
<zmoylan-pi> this pi will never take it....
<popey> I tried Ubuntu MATE on the Pi 2 yesterday
<popey> I was surprised how well it runs.
<zmoylan-pi> the pi2 is a seriously beefy little cpu.
<knightwise> indeed
<knightwise> it makes for a great thin client too
<knightwise> or a chromebook suppository
<zmoylan-pi> soon the smart hat will be a reality :-)
<Myrtti> Google Drive \o/
<knightwise> For collaboration .. it is a sweet sweet thing
 * popey finally paid for irssinotifier
<awilkins> Multicore makes a big difference on modern desktop s
<davmor2> popey: is that the android thing?
 * knightwise has quadcore I7 mbp
<knightwise> it fliez
 * awilkins is running Ruby on Rails on a Pi2... with acceptable performance!!!!
<awilkins> My work-issue laptop is buggering fast
 * brobostigon is also an irssinotifier user.
 * awilkins pardon me
<knightwise> did you guys get a box with your p2 or do you just use a lego case ?
<popey> davmor2: yes
<awilkins> knightwise, I got the FLIRC case
<popey> i have no case. i should make a lego one
<popey> actually I could draw one, I have a 3d pen
<awilkins> It looks like a proper little Mac Mini or something
<knightwise> popey: that would be an elegant case indeed
<popey> nah
<popey> it would look a mess
<awilkins> yeah, "popey, for cases that look like you put a USB port in a mass of wadded up chewing gum"
<popey> yes
<davmor2> awilkins: are you trying to say all of your cases don't look like that?
<knightwise> 49
<knightwise> oops
<knightwise> wrong window
<zmoylan-pi> when we all know the true answer is 42...
<davmor2> knightwise: isn't that the sweet and sour?  I'm assuming you were ordering a Chinese ;)
<knightwise> mpsyt :)
<knightwise> youtube music player
<knightwise> track 49
<zmoylan-pi> or 99 if you have access to ice cream and a flake...
<awilkins> http://thepihut.com/products/flirc-raspberry-pi-b-case  < dead nice
<popey> hah, makes it look like a NUC
<zmoylan-pi> but a smidge smaller
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFF0n5YqZ78 video review of it
<popey> ooh, that is nice
 * knightwise is pooped 
<knightwise> been in front of the pc non stop for allmost 10 hours
<awilkins> The only reason I'd get another case is if I wanted to fit HAT boards or the camera module
<knightwise> gonna chill afk a bit. ttyl
<awilkins> I may get a camera module for my Pi B 1.0
<awilkins> I have an app in mind for it
<zmoylan-pi> who's been stealing biccies from the kitchen!! :-)
<intrbiz> awilkins: I've got a copy of my monitoring system running on my Odroid U3, PostgreSQL 9.4, RabbitMQ, Nginx, and all my java based services, runs pretty well all things considered
<Myrtti> kek http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/pantones-newest-color-is-minion-yellow-design-news-218277
<TwistedLucidity> "a color that heightens awareness and creates clarity...the color of hope, joy and optimism"
<TwistedLucidity> Please excuse me whilst I hurl
<zmoylan-pi> that'll add some colour
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: and carrots mysteriously
<zmoylan-pi> with hints of jackson pollock
<diddledan> shauno: ask and you shall receive: better footage of the barge landing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeIHJ-i7yVk
<TwistedLucidity> Wouldn't some decent parachutes be easier & lighter?
 * TwistedLucidity is not a rocket engineer outside of Kerbal
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> diddledan: old.
<diddledan> oh?
<shauno> I was thinking about parachutes .. but I wonder if that'd leave them floating around on the breeze too much to be able to hit a small target
<shauno> perhaps just drogues to help it stay upright
<zmoylan-pi> i reckon some sort of ground net raised at last moment to catch and balance
<NET||abuse> hi folks, having a btrfs issue here,
<diddledan> I say they should put wings on it and a jet turbine :-p
<NET||abuse> got a volume on /mnt (i know bad location)   and it's on a disk /dev/xvdb of 456G    but only seems to be using 45G, 36G is used,, btrfs filesystem resize max /mnt    isn't working :(
<NET||abuse> not sure why, says file too big
<TwistedLucidity> The Kerbal version (as seen on CBS) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzkaVTeguNk
<TwistedLucidity> And longer more complete version (different creator) showing more explosions
<TwistedLucidity> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9I55o8hQgs
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan, shauno: ^
<TwistedLucidity> And with that, g'night!
<shauno> lol, how did I know it was gonna be scott manley
<diddledan> shauno: because "fly safe!"
<diddledan> he is pretty awesome tho
<vetman3309> hi
<davmor2> vetman3309: hi
<vetman3309> how is going?
<DJones> Sheesh, what a dodgy day, new server delivered, support staff in place to set it up, main software supplier says sorry no, it won't work on  server, it only works on peer to peer networks, what century are we living in
<DJones> It'll only work on a win xp/7 machine or windows server 2003
<popey> lulz
 * DJones kicks popey for laughing at obsolete systems
<DJones> I'm just grateful we're killing the system
<DJones> in 3 months
<shauno> don't you love buying new hardware for systems where the EOL is so close you can taste it
<diddledan> craycray!
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> so at my cousin's wedding the other week, as a special request the "you may kiss the bride" bit was inserted to the order of service and just as he goes in for the snog my niece (2) calls out "naughty naughty"
<diddledan> best timing evar!
<diddledan> if only someone had it on film
<Laney> deeeeeeebate time
<Myrtti> yeah, watching
<shauno> not watching \o/
<Laney> is it the same format as the other one?
<Laney> seems so
<Myrtti> Finnish debate was at 20 their time and I didn't bother to watch since I had already voted
<DJones> shauno: No,  this is down to a software developer not being prepared to accept that the internet exists and their refusal to accept that windows 3.0 is no longer supported
<directhex_> similar. but dave and nick are in hiding
<directhex_> i once had to deal with software whose dev supported amd64 solaris, but not amd64 linux
<directhex_> they were "keeping an eye" on that platform's viability
<directhex_> this was an HPC app. in 2008.
<diddledan> which was "that" platform that they were keeping an eye on?
<diddledan> they're analysing the viability of linux?
<shauno> amd64 seems like a flash in the pan.  they should play it safe and stick with ia64  *nods*
<diddledan> mmhmm
<diddledan> ia64 ftw
<diddledan> I want one just for the giggles
<directhex_> diddledan: amd64 linux. they did i386 linux,]
<directhex_> i used to admin an itanium system
<diddledan> we'd not have efi without ia64 remember :-p
<directhex_> 256 cores, 1T RAM
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> that's a big system
<directhex_> badly behaved SLES desktop!
<directhex_> 1 rack big
<foobarry> my colleague bought one off ebay
<directhex_> or was it 2?
<foobarry> recently
<directhex_> anyway, best parallel system i've ever used
<directhex_> *so* fast. yay sgi.
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> sgi were good
<foobarry> we also recently threw away a whole rack of altix sgi
<diddledan> the jurrassic park machines were sgi's
<foobarry> so much RAMs
<foobarry> nobody was using it
<diddledan> foobarry: not altair? :-p
<foobarry> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altix
<diddledan> looks like the only linux supported on itanium according to wiki is gentoo
<diddledan> it just goes to show (itanium) that being first and better doesn't mean you win :-p
<directhex_> diddledan: we ran SLES 10, which is what SGI supported on that hardware
<directhex_> that or RHEL 5
<diddledan> nerdgasm: https://youtu.be/ngElkyQ6Rhs
<diddledan> IRC really needs to allow huge letters for such times as you need to convey a huge SQUEEE
<dogmatic69_> any idea why my virtual machine is saying no space left on device, but df -h says 4GB free
<intrbiz> HTTP parsing, in kernel mode, smart move Windows - https://ma.ttias.be/remote-code-execution-via-http-request-in-iis-on-windows/
<intrbiz> dogmatic69_: has the host run out of storage space, if it's a thin provisioned disk?
<dogmatic69_> intrbiz: doubt that... /dev/md127p1                 2.7T  889G  1.7T  35% /raid
<intrbiz> dogmatic69_: what hypervisor?
<intrbiz> dogmatic69_: what disk format?
<diddledan> windows y u do dis?
<diddledan> unrelated to the http.sys issue above
<dogmatic69_> intrbiz: hypervisor? like virtualbox?
<diddledan> dogmatic69_: what filesystem?
<dogmatic69_> the drive is 'Normal (VDI)'
<dogmatic69_> what ever was the default install
<intrbiz> dogmatic69_: have you looked at dmesg in the VM ?
<diddledan> inode count?
<dogmatic69_> going to now, just rebooting again
<dogmatic69_> great, now df -h cannot read table of mounted file systems
<diddledan> o_O
<dogmatic69_> its, working now but still not /root. only the links to host
<diddledan> o_O
<intrbiz> dogmatic69_: what does /proc/mounts show?
<dogmatic69_> here is dmesg
<dogmatic69_> http://pastebin.com/jiuhWg4i
<dogmatic69_> proc/mounts has loads, want a paste?
<intrbiz> may as well
<dogmatic69_> http://pastebin.com/LTJBxt5P
<dogmatic69_> idk why df -h has no / but I can ls / and see folders
<dogmatic69_> I also just removed a file with no issues :/
<intrbiz> dogmatic69_: is /etc/mtab empty?
<dogmatic69_> nope
<dogmatic69_> that as the last 3 entries in mounts
<dogmatic69_> the /media/... ones
<intrbiz> dogmatic69_: is / listed?
<dogmatic69_> no
<dogmatic69_> 3 entries like 'pictures /media/sf_pictures vboxsf gid=999,rw 0 0'
<intrbiz> dogmatic69_: that'll be why df is broken
<dogmatic69_> but 3 different ones
<diddledan> root is mounted fine
<diddledan> what does df actually say?
<dogmatic69_> It has those same 3 entries
<dogmatic69_> but no /
<diddledan> paste?
<intrbiz> dogmatic69_: you can update mtab with: grep -v rootfs /proc/mounts > /etc/mtab
<dogmatic69_> http://pastebin.com/jUWAGaPa
<dogmatic69_> ok, that made df -h have more, but looks wonky.. paste comming
<dogmatic69_> http://pastebin.com/ku5LKWrQ
<dogmatic69_> all the none
<dogmatic69_> well, I can now write files...
<dogmatic69_> thanks diddledan / intrbiz
<dogmatic69_> but, why and how to avoid this again...
<diddledan> permissions on /etc/mtab wonky?
<diddledan> should be root:root 644
<intrbiz> dogmatic69_: an incorrect mtab is likely to be the result of not being able to write to / due to the original error
<shauno> don't most just symlink mtab to /proc now?
<diddledan> you'd think, shauno ,but seems 14.04 doesn't
<dogmatic69_> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1156 Apr 16 22:47 /etc/mtab
<intrbiz> dogmatic69_: can you also paste df -i
<intrbiz> shauno: openSUSE certainly does
<dogmatic69_> http://pastebin.com/Mj67NCAL
<diddledan> bingoi
<diddledan> inodes
<dogmatic69_> ok, it I use tab / autocomplete it complains about the same space issue
<diddledan> you're out
<shauno> debian does too.  and for long enough that I actually know this, so probably for 5+ years
<dogmatic69_> oh :S
<dogmatic69_> where do I buy more inodes :D
<intrbiz> dogmatic69_: being out of inodes will the the cause
 * diddledan points to his first comment way up at the top
<intrbiz> diddledan: indeed
<diddledan> ]specifically: 22:35 <diddledan> inode count? :-p
<diddledan> now someone pat me on the back!
<diddledan> :-D
 * dogmatic69_ pats diddledan on the back
<intrbiz> dogmatic69_: do you have lots of small files on this disk?
<dogmatic69_> intrbiz: the only thing on the disk is install stuff from apt-get
<dogmatic69_> all the real data is shared from host
<intrbiz> IIRC you can't increase the inode ratio on ext4
<dogmatic69_> found it, there is like 10 kernals with 5k inodes in each
<diddledan> o_O
<dogmatic69_> apt-get autoremove that crap
<diddledan> surely a kernel is just one file?
<diddledan> + an initrd
<dogmatic69_> http://pastebin.com/3gE8ypHq
<diddledan> and should be stored in /boot
<dogmatic69_> well maybe not kernal, but related..
<diddledan> oh, /lib/modules
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> autoremove that
<diddledan> though that's only about 5% of your total allocation
<diddledan> 25k(ish) out of1 meelion
<dogmatic69_> I think its counting the stuff on mounted drives...
<dogmatic69_> is that right?
<diddledan> each filesystem has a separate inode count
<dogmatic69_> ok
<dogmatic69_>  /sys/kernel has 12k
<intrbiz> dogmatic69_: /sys is a virtual filesystem
<dogmatic69_> oh ok
<dogmatic69_> usr/src has 250k
<dogmatic69_> and all linux-headers-3.xx.xx again
<dogmatic69_> I have autoclean / autoremoved and rebooted
<dogmatic69_> down to 71% used now :)
<dogmatic69_> thanks again
<dogmatic69_> had to apt-get purge linux-headers ... to clear that stuff out, autoremove does not do it
<diddledan> you want the headers for at least the version of the kernel you're booting into normallyu
<dogmatic69_> ye, it removed all so I reinstalled the current ones
<diddledan> fair enuff
<dogmatic69_> it seems like doing purge linux-...41 will remove 4* eg, 41, 42, 43.. 49
<dogmatic69_> idk if its just me but seems wrong http://pastebin.com/5b3Jk8VZ
<dogmatic69_> idk how 'linux-headers-3.13.0-35*' matches the list to be removed there.
<diddledan> it's treated as a regex
<dogmatic69_> 45* matches 49?
<dogmatic69_> I thought 45<anything>
<diddledan> so you're asking for 3<Anything>13<anything>0-3<5 any number of times including none>
<dogmatic69_> gah. I get ya
<diddledan> you probably want to use the command: apt-get purge 'linux-headers-3\.13\.0-35.*'
<dogmatic69_> right
<diddledan> where \. is a literal dot, and .* is anything
<diddledan> you need to put it in single-quotes so that the \. doesn't get expanded by bash before handing to apt
<diddledan> bash shell expansion can be a pain
<dogmatic69_> ye
<dogmatic69_> cheers. well I have some inodes again \o/
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> inodes ftw?
<dogmatic69_>  /var has .5M
<diddledan> glad you managed to sort it
<dogmatic69_>  /var/tmp, can be cleaned out?
<dogmatic69_> actually, its ntop...
<diddledan> worst case to fix inode outage is to create a new filesystem elsewhere and copy the files across
<diddledan> then delete the old filesystem
<diddledan> /var/tmp should be ok to clear though sometimes running programs may be using files currently
<diddledan> the best option for /var/tmp and /tmp is to clear them on initial boot
<ball> If I have a text file with a list of filenames, how can I find the checksum of each file?
<ball> I would like to deduplicate some photos.
<ball> Oh! I may have just thought of a way...
<ball> No. That won't work.
<diddledan> ball: for file in "$(cat listoffiles.txt)"; do md5sum "$file" >> md5sums.txt; done
<diddledan> try that
<ball> diddledan: Thanks, I'll try it.
<ball> ./foo2: 3: ./foo2: md5sum: Argument list too long
<ball> ^- does it not work if there are spaces in the filename?
<ball> perhaps I need to escape out the quote somehow.
<ball> (double-quotes)
<diddledan> should work with spaces
<diddledan> actually, no it won;'t
<diddledan> hmm
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-17
<ball> I'm using Ubuntu for the first time in quite a long while.
<ball> For the most part I like it.
<ball> It seems to work well on my daughter's computer.
<ball> brb
<diddledan> hmm, phpmyadmin just surprised me - I created a database and a database_dev and it grouped them in the interface
<m0nkey_> it does that
<m0nkey_> has done for a while
<diddledan> I've not used it in forever
<ball> Wht does a database_dev do?
 * m0nkey_ thorws ball the extra I and L to attach to the word.
<ball> I /knew/ there was something dodgy about database people! ;-)
<diddledan> ball: I meant database as a generic term for a named database - the point was the _dev was appended to the name of another database
<diddledan> so I created <databasename> and <databasename>_dev
<ball> Oh, does _dev just signify the development version of a database?
<diddledan> it's purely semantic - I just chose _dev arbitrarily to mean just that
<m0nkey_> diddledan, http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608025
 * ball nods
<ball> I get it now. Thanks for explaining.
<m0nkey_> Weird cpu cooler
<m0nkey_> I ordered
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> double decker!
<m0nkey_> 120mm & 92mm fans
<diddledan> that really is weird
<m0nkey_> they say it's comptable with my board, hopefully it is
<m0nkey_> In fact, I ordered two different ones. This is the second.
<m0nkey_> Turned out the first I ordered wasn't suitable for my TDP
<diddledan> :-(
<m0nkey_> I got to return the first one. Which would have been perfect.
<m0nkey_> My case is already full of Noctua fans
<m0nkey_> I'm kinda a fan (heh, get it?) of Noctua
<m0nkey_> I found the stock Intel cooler not to be up to snuff
<m0nkey_> Especially for gaming
<m0nkey_> However, I have the same Intel cooler in my NAS which has a E3 Xeon. That one seems to be just fine.
<ball> Oh that's weird. I quite Rhythmbox but it's still playing music.
<m0nkey_> It does that
<ball> I HUPped it.
<ball> That put it out of its misery.
<m0nkey_> Why? Go to the volume control and stop it
<m0nkey_> HUP is more reload, TERM is to shutdown gracefully
<m0nkey_> -9 is BURN IT WITH FIRE!
<diddledan> -9 == -KILL?
<m0nkey_> kill -9
<m0nkey_> Basically pull the rug from under it's feet.
<diddledan> no, I mean `kill -9` == `kill -KILL`?
<m0nkey_> -TERM is happier
<m0nkey_> -9 or -KILL... -9 is shorter :D
<ball> m0nkey_: HUP did the job.
<ball> HUP is a hang-up, which is what I wanted.
<ball> Does ubuntu ship with a GUI-based text editor?
<ball> (with search and replace)?
<ball> Oh, found it.
<diddledan> gedit
<zmoylan-pi> and about 50,000 more are available...
<m0nkey_> vim-gtk
<ball> gedit worked.
<knightwise> morning peeps
<MooDoo> morning all
<directhex_> yes, it is!
<directhex_> new car day :D
<MooDoo> yay
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Bat Appreciation Day! :-D
<directhex_> more importantly, happy directhex's new car day
<JamesTait> And happy JamesTait's new MTB drivetrain day. :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: close enough right https://www.pinterest.com/pin/135319163775397306/ â popey you'll like this one :)
<popey> catman
<davmor2> popey: that has to be it's name and do you think they go in the garden and shout "Dinner, Dinner, Dinner, Dinner Catman" to call hime in?
<davmor2> -e
<foobarry> http://boingboing.net/2015/04/16/scythe-vs-weedwhacker.html
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> davmor2, nice! :)
<foobarry> well, i liked all of the origami except the winner which was lame!
<davmor2> JamesTait: sneaky see nearly caterday so drop in cat on bat appreciation day :D
<popey> the winner had more 'likes'
<foobarry> ah that old chestnut
<foobarry> i think thats why people often do "the 5 with most likes will be entered into a final where the judges choose"
<popey> yeah, that would have been better
<foobarry> but hey, its a free comp
<foobarry> they can do what they like
<foobarry> i was gonna do a unicorn and airbrush the completed thing it in rainbow colours but i got sick :(
<diddledan> morning
<popey> Yes.
<shauno> :(
<shauno> this morning seems to be filled with nonsensical tickets from strange countries. I was in no way prepared for this when I crawled out of bed.
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> Subject: objects fled far away
<shauno> "Dear Colleagues, recently I faced with the problem that some of our customers moved in Afghanistan, but they were in Russia. When I try to return object in the desired Russia it disappeared. Have someone of you have this problem and is it a possibility to return the object back."
<shauno> (I wouldn't bother reading it twice, it doesn't seem to help)
<diddledan> err
<zmoylan-pi> send them a cardboard box and a few stamps? :-)
<shauno> well, I think there's a very obvious answer.  I'm just struggling to put it into polite terms.
<zmoylan-pi> ah well, if you're polite the message has no chance to penetrate that skull...
<foobarry> write an asnwer and then google translate it into another language and then back again
<zmoylan-pi> or run it through 3 different languages to maximise the distortion
<MooDoo> yay
<zmoylan-pi> realised it's friday or discovered a fiver in pocket you didn't know you had...
<davmor2> popey, JamesTait : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2DCExerOsA a suggestion for the name of the release :D
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Wibbling Walrus?
<foobarry> woolly woofter?
<foobarry> (1980s schoolboy insult)
<TwistedLucidity> Wacky Wombat
<TwistedLucidity> So I tried some ramdisk network transfers and got ~71MB/s. About 50% of network capacity. A wee bitty better, still suspect I have some config issues.
<knightwise> Elementary Freya = prrrretty !
<knightwise> have the vm running on a 29 inch widescreen monitor (fullscreen) and its gorgeous
<knightwise> and pretty snappy too!
<foobarry> yeah its lovely
<foobarry> one feature i like is..
<foobarry> you get notifications on actions that you ran in the terminal if you susequently switch windows
<foobarry> e.g. apt-get dist-upgrade, start using chrome in full screen, get a little notification to say the upgrade finished
<foobarry> also ctrl-c and ctrl-v work in terminal as copy paste in context aware manner
<knightwise> that is SOO pretty
<foobarry> maybe compiz conditioned me into expecting poor performance, but its super fast too innit?
<foobarry> try it on bare metal...
<ali1234> ctrl-c copies in the terminal??
<ali1234> have we found a desktop even more stupid than GNOME?
<zmoylan-pi> that would be nice
<davmor2> foobarry: unity8 is much faster than unity7 too :)
<ali1234> everything is faster than compiz
<TwistedLucidity> I remember checking it out a while back (pre-Freya). It did look good.
<TwistedLucidity> CTRL-C/V in the terminal catches me out all the time
<zmoylan-pi> it should *just* work :-)
<foobarry> ali1234: its context aware
<foobarry> http://www.veeam.com/endpoint-backup-free.html << for you windows users
<ali1234> i don't really see how it can be context aware in a meaningful way
<foobarry> . If there is some text selected and you press Ctrl+C it will copy the selected text to clipboard. If no text is selected the default behavior will be applied (end process signal will be sent).
<TwistedLucidity> That's pretty neat. In a dangerous sort of way
<foobarry> you can disable it if you wish,
<foobarry> ctrl-c only kills a running command that isn't in background, which is usually poor practice
<ali1234> i can see it going badly
<foobarry> thats the kneejerks reaction
<ali1234> if you want to copy something from the output of a running process
<ali1234> and it scrolls when you are trying to select, clearing the selection
<ali1234> and then you accidentally kill it
<foobarry> measure twice , cut once, or use middle button :D
<ali1234> i always use middle button
<ali1234> hat's one reason why i don't like GNOME
<foobarry> me too, mianly from habit, although when i have to use a windows VDI session i get annoyed
<knightwise> I think gnome3 is pretty slick
<foobarry> i tried gnome3 for 6 months and couldn't hack it
<foobarry> no looking back from elementary after it released
 * zmoylan-pi sticks with xfce for now
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Did you pay or did you cheat the system by stealing the F/OSS OS? :-P
<knightwise> I had elementary running on my macbook air ..
<knightwise> (bare metal)
<knightwise> it wuzzz perfect !
<zmoylan-pi> past tense?
<foobarry> funny about the elementary pay comments when i'm prety sure ubuntu tried that pay suggestion page for a while
<popey> not quite the same
<popey> they're similar, sure.
<MooDoo> foobarry: wasn't there an uproar about it years ago?  they still going on about it now?
<popey> the comments about elementary were because they posted a blog entry telling people that they're "cheating" by downloading for zero
<popey> the ubuntu one is still there, and we still get donations from it
<TwistedLucidity> I don't think Canoncial insulted folks....
<popey> which we use to fund lots of things
<popey> (including community developers going to conferences, hardware, event packages etc)
<foobarry> popey: didn't they reword the blog almost immediately
<popey> no, it took a lot of flak before they re-worded it
<foobarry> they mainly encourage adding $$ to bountysource
<foobarry> the same day though
<popey> They also are a little creative with the truth about where the money goes
<foobarry> i didn't even get to read the original as it happened and changed in a night i think
<foobarry> https://www.bountysource.com/teams/elementary
<popey> yeah, i think cassidy posted it and then went to bed
<foobarry> as long as its not abused, then bountysource is a good idea
<popey> It's a very pretty desktop, and they've got some nice touches.
<foobarry> although i hope it doesn't mean that other bugs don't get fixed
<foobarry> shame they fell out with joey omg as omg got a lot more boring since then
<foobarry> (about 3 years ago now)
<popey> they did?
<popey> didn't know that.
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> got a bit frosty
<foobarry> they are on talking terms again now
<foobarry> but at one point it was a bit awkward
<foobarry> joey used to promote them all the time , most days
<popey> i think joey gets flak from readers for talking about !ubuntu
<popey> mind you he gets flak from everyone
<foobarry> i think the disagreement was related to people (inc joey) who suggested they do a ppa for easy access to elementary but the e guys had their goal of making distinct OS
<foobarry> i gues elemetnary just started as a cool theme back in the day
<popey> yeah
<popey> having a ppa would dilute their brand
<shauno> it still feels like it pretty much is a ppa?  it still uses the ubuntu repos, just adds theirs too
<foobarry> lots of dinstrict things now though
<foobarry> everything is different
<popey> if you install freya, you get ubuntu packages and their ppa
<foobarry> even the greeter, terminal, window manager, etc
<popey> although I dont see any doc on how they made the iso
<popey> so no way of knowing what else is in there
<foobarry> you can build yourself,
<popey> ubuntu + ppa ?
<foobarry> since thats what teh kiddies were doing pre release
<shauno> I had a poke around with it, fairly superficially, but noticed they're still using the normal repo, that's all
<foobarry> all the desktop env is not common to ubuntu though
<popey> this is one reason why I think cinnamon got rid of their stable ppa.
<popey> because if you make it too easy to install your special sauce on ubuntu, what's the point of you existing?
<popey> someone could do as we did with ubuntu mate, and create a derivative which bypasses them
<popey> I think that would worry them.
<foobarry> make it easy = more users
<foobarry> separate iso = different brand different ideologoy
<shauno> stop telling your uses they're pirates = more users
<ali1234> what prevents anyone from just downloading all the src debs and putting them in a ppa?
<popey> do we know for sure every package on the iso came from the ppa or archive?
<popey> if so, yeah, anyone could do that
<ali1234> if we don't know that, why don't we know that?
<foobarry> i think u guys are looking for issues where there aren't any
<ali1234> i think the issue is more with ubuntu
<foobarry> i ran ubuntu+ppa= elementary for ages
<popey> I'm not looking for any issues.
<ali1234> it should be reproducable and self-hosting
<foobarry> and realised some stuff didn't work right (notifications , screen lock etc)
<foobarry> make ur own iso and be different,
<foobarry> not just another ubuntu
<ali1234> i should be able to apt-get install launchpad and have it ready to squeeze out ISOs in under a day
<ali1234> and those ISOs should be binary identical to the official ones
<popey> launchpad doesn't build ISOs
<ali1234> it does however build all the packages in those ISOs
<popey> indeed.
<popey> but the isos are built elsewhere
<popey> !info germinate
<popey> bah
<lubotu3`> germinate (source: germinate): expand dependencies in a list of seed packages. In component main, is optional. Version 2.18 (utopic), package size 19 kB, installed size 89 kB
<popey> and other stuff :)
<ali1234> it's good that debian is starting to adopt the reproducible build stuff
<ali1234> https://reproducible.debian.net/unstable/stats_pkg_state.png
<directhex_> mono 4 is reproducible by default, that's a couple of hundred more packages once it goes into the archive
<directhex_> ali1234: did you see my proof-of-concept for inserting a backdoor into debian, and why reproducible builds would help?
<ali1234> no
<directhex_> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2wz8gp/debian_working_on_reproducible_builds/covlz8r
<MooDoo> directhex_: why would you want a back door?
<popey> proof of concept
<MooDoo> ah
<directhex_> MooDoo: i wouldn't personally. but an "evil" debian developer could inject whatever they liked into packages used by thousands or millions of people
<MooDoo> directhex_: i was speed reading and missed the important part lol
<directhex_> an apache patch which accepts a special handshake to give local access, fr'example
<foobarry> directhex_: you are proposing test rebuilds of all binaries and checking hashes?
<davmor2> MooDoo: to get into the garden normally :P
<ali1234> foobarry: he's not proposing it, debian is
<directhex_> foobarry: the reproducible builds project proposes this
<directhex_> foobarry: we altered mono's compiler to support it
<foobarry> oh, i read your comment but not the link :D
<MooDoo> directhex_: just wated a video about debian LTS was quite interesting shame they don't have the money or the amount of developers
<foobarry> "Debian is working on a new project named âreproducible buildsâ with the stated goal â It should be possible to reproduce, byte for byte, every build of every package in Debian. "
<MooDoo> davmor2: shush you lol
<foobarry> i assumed/thought that was already in place...
<ali1234> foobarry: not even close unfortunately
<directhex_> foobarry: nope
<directhex_> foobarry: for the mono example (which i'm most familiar with), .net binaries contain a timestamp, and a GUID, when compiled
<ali1234> far too many things embed the hostname of the build machine too
<foobarry> surprised debian accepts binaries - the binaries that get put on an iso are surely builds from source though?
<directhex_> foobarry: nope!
<foobarry> oh
<foobarry> launchpad does though?
<directhex_> yes!
<foobarry> which is probably where my assumption came from, and redhat/centos
<directhex_> all launchpad builds are from source... assuming you trust the launchpad sysadmin ^_^
<foobarry> i couldn foresee a situation where something bad happens and everyone says "how could this have been allowed to happen!"
<foobarry> could*
<foobarry> in debian
<popey> there was a debian talk at fosdem this year where this was discussed (among other things)
<popey> and the "dirty secret" that some packages in the debian archive were built on developer machines
<popey> not on buildds
<foobarry> yay my grass seed and fork arrived.
<popey> http://video.fosdem.org/2015/devroom-distributions/distributions_boring_solved_problem.mp4
<directhex_> almsot every package, in fact
<directhex_> the debian archive *requires* that devs submit binary packages. the buildd network will compile on other arches as needed
<directhex_> e.g. for mono, i compile on my amd64 laptop, which generates amd64 and arch-independent packages. the debian buildd network does the arm, mips, etc, builds
<directhex_> so for every package, one arch (usually amd64 or i386) was done on the developer's pc
<popey> blimey, didn't realise it was as "bad" as that
<directhex_> this status quo hasn't been fixed, for 2 reasons: 1) there are 3 packages that cannot be built on amd64 or i386, but are arch:all once compiled. and we have no way to represent this state in a build-everything-on-debian-infra way
<directhex_> 2) it's felt that without requiring binaries, devs might upload buggy source packages that don't in fact compile
<foobarry> today i learned what a hoe is for
<bashrc_> nice
<popey> for growing pumpkins in minecraft
<foobarry> apparently its the ideal tool for removing small weeds in your shrub beds
<foobarry> my life will never be the same
<MooDoo> foobarry: i'm with popey ;)
<foobarry> one day i'll actually play MC
<foobarry> when its free on android
 * bashrc_ has never played MC
<davmor2> foobarry: it's also useful for quickly chopping in fertiliser to help plant grow too
<foobarry> ah, nice
<foobarry> or grass seed perhaps?
<davmor2> foobarry: no you don't plant grass you lay it on top
 * diddledan restrains comments about hoes
<foobarry> dutch hoes no less
<diddledan> oh myy
<diddledan> reminds me of the story of the lad with his finger
<davmor2> foobarry: then you spend an age trying to stop the bird eating it all
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> i bought a net
<shauno> oooh, just got home to find new phone waiting for me
<diddledan> what'd ya get?
<shauno> this ubuntu one.  I was nosey
<diddledan> heh
<shauno> oh. I need a new simcard though.  oops
<diddledan> heh
<diddledan> there's too many different sizes these days
<foobarry> i use scissors
<knightwise> i'll be moving over to my ubuntu phone fulltime
<shauno> scissors won't make my card bigger
<foobarry> been locked out of my account 5 times in 2 days :(
<foobarry> my work account
<shauno> hm.  reboot loop.  oops
<popey> shauno: feel free to join #ubuntu-touch if you want to shout at ubuntu phone devs :)
<shauno> lol, not yet.  I want to play with it enough that I'm not just whining because it's different
<popey> well, a boot loop is an issue :)
<shauno> (although yes, first boot, into the indicators, it told me I had to upgrade, so I did.  it never came back)
<shauno> well, not 'had to', but I figure it's usually a good idea because your platforms itterate fast
<popey> never came back?
<shauno> it gets to the bq screen, then just flashes on and off like a belisha beacon
<shauno> so I did up&power until it gave me a little text menu, tried 'normal boot', it did it again.  so this time I'm trying 'recovery', which I'm assuming is the sadface
<shauno> hm, nope, recovery goes back to the belisha beacon, just takes longer to get there
<popey> would be helpful to raise this in #ubuntu-touch
<popey> so we can a) debug and b) fix
<shauno> fair enough.  gonna go for coffee first though.  let it sit and think
<shauno> with so few buttons, it seems your options are "press things" or "leave it alone".  and I've already tried the first
<diddledan> push all the things!
<foobarry> get on a webcam and stream it to the phone chan
<shauno> heh, it's back
<shauno> I think perhaps the upgrade/reboot process is just quite noisy .. it just doesn't look convincing
<shauno> getting there :)  trying to put an imap client on now  (it comes with gmail but not email :(
<diddledan> wait, gmail isn't email?
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> </troll>
<shauno> don't get me started :p
<diddledan> popey: the audio on that fosdem video you posted is terrible - it's silent and then suddenly REALLY LOUD BREATHING and then silent again
<diddledan> popey: the ubuntu podcast does way better than that :-D
<shauno> lol, I just found popey in the store
<diddledan> yey?
<diddledan> what's he doing in the store?
<diddledan> can you watch him browsing through the shelveS?
<shauno> telling me the weather, it seems
<shauno> I assume it's the same pope, it has that little confused smiley face
<diddledan> is it inappropriate to call popey the holy papa?
<shauno> yes.  you're creepy enough when you're trying not to be
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> .. since when have I ever tried not to be creepy?
<knightwise> diddledan: you couldn't if you tried
<shauno> pft, I need ubuntu to use the ubuntu-sdk?  people yell at apple for that :p
<popey> you can use vim and adb
<shauno> adb is in the android sdk?  I think it'll be easier to stick ubuntu in a VM  lol
<popey> its in the repo
<popey> and the sdk ppa
<shauno> ah ok.  I found the instructions, but still installing ubuntu so hadn't go that far
<Myrtti> could someone remind me again how I can find the old kernel packages I can remove to free up space from /boot+
 * bashrc_ wonders why /boot isn't bigger by default
<Myrtti> because I made it that way, probably
<zmoylan-pi> sudo apt-get autoremove?
<daftykins> apt-get autoremove will remove some older ones, but if you've really got some old cruft on there you should use...
<bashrc_> I've also had the same issue in the past. There is a way of clearing out old kernels
<daftykins> "dpkg -l | grep linux-image"
<daftykins> or just look in /boot and and remove linux-image-3.x.0-##-generic for example
<zmoylan-pi> i got 1/4 gb back when i ran it :-)
<bashrc_> but these days it's not as if we're pushed for HDD/SDD space, so I don't know why that partition isn't made bigger by default
<daftykins>  /boot hasn't been a partition for years
<Myrtti> it is if you've got encryption
<daftykins> in fact i'm not even sure if the installer ever made it one
<bashrc_> yes
<daftykins> well yeah but you have only to look at the number of tears falling down peoples faces in #ubuntu to have feelings about encryption there :D
<bashrc_> I always use full disk encryption these days
<daftykins> plus its' major bugs such as yeah - making a tiny /boot
<Myrtti> The upgrade needs a total of 99,0 M free space on disk '/boot'. Please free at least an additional 20,5 M of disk space on '/boot'. Empty your trash and remove temporary packages of former installations using 'sudo apt-get clean'.
<Myrtti> bah
<daftykins> Myrtti: yeah, so list the kernels? :)
<bashrc_> I suggest that this kind of stuff should be automatic these days
<daftykins> or you might have root 5% reserved on which'd take some
<daftykins> a quick tune2fs to disable that might help a tiny bit
<daftykins> well it is with autoremove - but you can't go stealing someones older kernels automatically :) you need a fallback sometimes
<bashrc_> true, but the average user probably doesn't need to keep five kernels and when this problem occurs it breaks system updates
<daftykins> only for those with nuts partitioning :> so as long as the encrypted /boot size has been fixed in the installer, it should be good
<Myrtti> I swear to god I already uninstalled these once
<daftykins> use purge perhaps
<daftykins> i did have someone the other day who i told to remove them, then they were still there in /boot - was a bit weird
<Myrtti> yeah, purge is a given
<daftykins> i don't think so, not normally necessary
<davmor2> m/me listening to Stairway to Heaven LOUD why cause it's still sounds great :D
<davmor2> -m at front don't know where that came from
<zmoylan-pi> that's the keyboard vibrating under your hands...
<daftykins> :>
 * daftykins does a Waynes World and points at the "No Stairway" sign in the music shop
<zmoylan-pi> denied...
<davmor2> 404: Stairway not found
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> i finally reinstalled my web server VM to trusty last night \o/
<daftykins> very smooth just scp'ing over the document root, setting up a clean install with the same passwords then a quick mysql dump of the database and restore
<daftykins> but my word how the apache2 configs have changed since 10.04 :P
<zmoylan-pi> ok i want to see this film :-D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72RqpItxd8M&feature=youtu.be
<daftykins> can you say what it is so i don't have to click? ;)
<intrbiz> daftykins: is 10.04 Apache 2.0 ?
<zmoylan-pi> and miss out the supreme 80ness and cliche ridden wonderfull ness of kung fury?? :-)
<shauno> reminds me of one I heard re: traffic volumes.  a highway to hell vs a stairway to heaven
<daftykins> intrbiz: yip
<shauno> curious, does android have a swipe-action on every edge like this too?
<brobostigon> like this? ubuntu touch?
<shauno> yeah
<brobostigon> not on its own, but there is certain sw to add similer, yes.
<brobostigon> like gmd gesturecontrol.
<shauno> hm, okay.  just curious where they got that idea from.  most of it's pretty logical, bar that
<Myrtti> where did I see someone giving a tip on Chrome on HiDPI?
<Myrtti> was it popey
<popey> no
<Myrtti> it was yesterday or today... gah
<shauno> well, I'm curious to see what I can build on it.  but I'm not sure I'll actually use it as a phone.  the UI is just way too combersome
<davmor2> MooDoo, popey: you guys should be owld enough to know the lyrics "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and style"
<ali1234> shauno: the android camera app has edge swiping
<ali1234> most apps don't have an action on every single edge
<ali1234> most of the standard ones use the left edge for opening the sidebar
<shauno> I think I'm just frustrated because the most common thing I find myself doing is repeatedly trying to hit the little < to go back a page
<shauno> eg, read an email, go to read the next email .. you're stabbing tiny targets to get back to the mailbox
<shauno> there's probably a lot of ios bias there where that's what I assume the left side is for
<shauno> but I'm not sure it helps that while you can swipe left/right on the header bar in scopes, you can't do the same for the header bar anywhere else
<ali1234> ingmail the left and right edges move to the previous/next email thread when in message view
<ali1234> in mailbox view it opens the sidebar
<ali1234> oh and you don't need to swipe from the edge
<ali1234> also theres two back buttons, the OS one at the bottom and one in the top left
<shauno> right, I'm on the ubuntu one .. no hardware back
<ali1234> my phone can't reliably tell the difference between a swipe and a tap anyway
<ali1234> oh yeah the ubuntu UI is a bit strange
<ali1234> it used to be you had to swipe up from the bottom to open a menu before you could even see the back button
<ali1234> i don't know what it's like these days but i heard they got rid of that bottom menu entirely
<shauno> (I'd also love to know how to stop the 'vibrate any time I tap anything' thing.  I thought I turned it off in the settings, but a couple of apps still do it regardless)
<ali1234> report bugs
<ali1234> then go to irc and complain loudly
<ali1234> then when they sarcastically ask if you reported a bug, whip out the URL
<daftykins> ali1234: not very funny to enable #ubuntu-ees to act even more atrociously :(
<daftykins> unless this is another thing :D
<ali1234> what is ubuntu-ees?
<diddledan> is it time to stop working yet?
<diddledan> ooh, I got a reply from canonical legal :-)
<diddledan> "we're looking into your request and will get back to you shortly"
<intrbiz> diddledan: request for what?
<diddledan> trademark usage
<shauno> o_O
<popey> for what?
<ali1234> Azelphur: do you know of a self-hosted video streaming platform like twitch.tv?
<ali1234> (or anyone else)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-18
<daftykins> something wrong with it itself? :)
<ali1234> what, twitch?
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> i use it from my xbox one quite a bit
<daftykins> though i suspect the main streaming platform OBS doesn't have a Linux client
<ali1234> no, it does
<ali1234> works fine
<ali1234> the problem with twitch is that i don't want to stream games, i don't want it to be public, i don't want it to have ads, and i want to run it on my own server...
<ali1234> i just want something with identical functionality (reflecting a stream from my computer to multiple web browser viewers)
<daftykins> ah i see
<daftykins> hrmm nah sorry no ideas :(
<daftykins> here's my brothers speed test of Guernsey's recent LTE rollout... https://www.dropbox.com/s/fj9k6qyfxpswpbx/IMG-20150418-WA0000.jpg?dl=0
<knightwise> 02has anyone played with the native calendar app on ubuntu phone yett  ?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<elfy> morning bigcalm
<daftykins> morn o/
<knightwise> morning bigcalm elfy
<elfy> hi knightwise
<daftykins> aaaaah what a night
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> morning daftykins
<daftykins> ah i had the pleasure just now of seeing GTA V running on my ageing PC - with an xbox controller plugged in no less
<daftykins> quite the jump up even for this old thing, from the xbox 360 version i last played
<directhex_> i can't get excited for gta5
<directhex_> i really didn't like 4
<daftykins> totally different, all issues with IV fixed
<directhex_> except the biker dlc, i liked that
<daftykins> TLAD :D that was neat
<daftykins> still clumsy model animations that made it feel like you were controlling a cow in a shopping trolley, mind
<directhex_> didn't like the gay dlc. seemed to amplify the worst bits of the base game
<directhex_> yes! i always said nico steered like a cow
<directhex_> we are unified in our bovine analogies <3
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> truth be told i'm just ripping off Yahtzee's description of a Tomb Raider adventure, i must admit
<directhex_> "go here to do a quest!" *drive drive drive* "return between 2:30am and 2:45am to start this quest". THANKS, GAME
<daftykins> that was a highly foolish mechanic
<daftykins> may as well implement petrol
<directhex_> so were the beeeeeg american teeeeeties
<daftykins> i like to taunt a mate in another channel by highlighting the least fun part of IV, occasionally...
<daftykins> "Hey <friend> do you want to go bowling!?"
<directhex_> heh
<directhex_> i also enjoyed having to stop and queue at toll booths to not get wanted stars Â¬_Â¬
<directhex_> basically, saint's row 3 was fun, gta4 was not
<daftykins> ah in fairness i sped through every time and it was easy to evade
<directhex_> also, i have a new gadget \o/
<daftykins> ooh, do tell?
<directhex_> car! :D
<directhex_> it plugs in, that makes it a gadget
<daftykins> :O electric?
<daftykins> hrmm simply mail solutions seems to be down for a client 0o
<daftykins> just called up from sunny Spain
<directhex_> daftykins: volt!
<directhex_> i bought an *american* car ._.
<daftykins> all your visits to the US have confused you!
<directhex_> i've driven a chevy before - a camaro
<popey> knightwise: yes, wassup?
<daftykins> popey: got a known hijack/shifty site spammer in #ubuntu today - wwwBUKOLAYcom (don't visit)
<daftykins> ah another op has woken up
<popey> oh?
<daftykins> chatting to ikonia about 'em
<popey> k
<daftykins> done \o/
<Myrtti> as a sidenote, if you haven't yet noticed, the Nabee flight socks have a spring sale
<popey> heh
<popey> nice one daftykins
<daftykins> ty :D
<MooDoo> howdy all
<zmoylan-pi> "o/
<penguin42> my dad is disgusted at the replacement kettle I just got him; it doesn't have a light!
<shauno> why on earth would you buy a kettle with no light?
<penguin42> I didn't know it didn't have a light!  I bought a kettle that was metal bodied, 3kw and 1.7l and with a full handle; I didn't even think to check for the presence of a light
<zmoylan-pi> why would a kettle need a light?  for deaf folk?
<shauno> it's tradition.
<shauno> it irks me enough that they all seem to like blue ones now.  it should be red.
<zmoylan-pi> blue leds are just wrong
<penguin42> they were cool; 10 years ago
<shauno> it's not so much that I mind them, but they seem to show up in places you really don't want them
<shauno> (especially every laptop mffr that puts them between the keyboard and the screen)
<zmoylan-pi> red leds for bad, green leds for good.  blue leds are just redundant.
<shauno> I prefer red for most things.  it doesn't feel like it's boring into your eyeballs from the other side of the room.
<penguin42> well for a kettle, one that changed colour to let you know how close it was to boiling would be best
 * penguin42 registers a complaint with Russell Hobbs that their form for registering for a 3rd year of guarantee really shouldn't ask for marital status
<penguin42> and DoB, and email, phone number and mobile number,etc etc
<shauno> perfect - you can ask them why their kettle doesn't have a light while you're at it :)
<penguin42> I could
<zmoylan-pi> i give up on web forms that ask gender or insist on 2 separate name fields
<shauno> I would, to be honest.  I wouldn't contact them *just* to ask, but if you're already sending them something, it's a small chance to o_O someone's day
<penguin42> sorry, I forgot when I sent them the nasty 'formal data protection query' mail
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-19
<isleofmandan> Info: Isle of Man release party for Ubuntu 15.04 - http://iom.lug.org.uk
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<awilkins> Anyone know why I can't import python packages I've definitely just installed (via the package manager?)
<penguin42> a 2 vs 3 thing?
<awilkins> Hmm, maybe, tried both 2 and 3 though
<awilkins> Ok... i) the apt package isn't the package I was looking for so it's root namespace is different
<awilkins> ii) Once you find that out it works in 2 but not 3
<awilkins> I do think the friction between the Python / Ruby and Debian package management is annoying
<penguin42> yeh it always happens when you have two different package management systems
<directhex_> It's Complicated
<directhex_> as is everything i seem to ever comment on
<penguin42> well you wouldn't want to comment on anything so simple that it was below you
<directhex_> true :p
<directhex_> but your summary was reasonable
<mappps> yay
<mappps> leaving now;D holiday time
<foobarry> anyone tried the fitness tracker bands?
<foobarry> to monitor sleep and walkies
<daftykins> chap i know got given a fitbit a bit ago
<daftykins> seems to use a web based stat tracker on the PC
<daftykins> so must run a local server
<foobarry> the xiaomi one is v cheap and you use an android/apple app
<diddledan> I've got an ms band (as of wednesday)
<diddledan> doubles as a watch
<foobarry> multiple sclerosis?
<diddledan> apparently my heart-rate goes down to about 55 when I'm asleep
<diddledan> err. no. microsoft
<foobarry> oh
<foobarry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Xiaomi-Lightweight-Smart-Bluetooth4-0-Bracelet-Black/dp/B00RMO0T5I
<foobarry> these are v cheap
<foobarry> i dont think it measures heart rate though
<foobarry> just sleep and walking
<foobarry> and notification vibrate
<popey> foobarry: i have a fitbit
<popey> blimety that xiaomi thing is cheap
<foobarry> only does 2 things
<foobarry> my bro in law has one
<popey> the fitbit only does two things
<popey> (the one I have)
<popey> but mine is an older version, the first band
<foobarry> popey: fitbit is a gimmick or useful?
<foobarry> maybe i just like the idea of collecting data
<popey> its good for setting  targets
<popey> and can wake you gently
<popey> and monitor your sleep pattern
<popey> so has valid uses
<foobarry> i haz no  targets
<popey> if any of those are important to you.
<popey> 10k steps a day is a good target
<foobarry> but is fun for comparing steps vs wife
<popey> a good starter anyway
<popey> yeah
<foobarry> do u stil use it?
<popey> no
<popey> not often
<popey> yet another thing to keep charged
<daftykins> i reckon that's their main issue, all this fitness lark
<popey> i did use a phone based one on the iphone a while back
<popey> "Moves"
<popey> which was really rather well done.
<popey> counted steps as you'd expect but also provided little maps of where you did the steps
<popey> so was dead handy for doing things like looking back over a week and seeing where you ate when you come to do your expenses
<daftykins> another average day on the main roads of Guernsey - https://www.dropbox.com/s/5y8ngn723zc8ba3/IMG_20150419_181747.jpg?dl=0
<foobarry> the xiaomi one lasts 30 days or so allegedly
<foobarry> don't quote me on that tho
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-18
<diddledan> ok, that's interesting. I tried replacing /init from my ubuntu-on-windows and restarted the lxss service - seems /init gets replaced by the system on startup of the service every time
<diddledan> guess MS don't want us to run a real init :-p
<zmoylan-pi> autoexec.init :-P
<diddledan> nope, it's an elf binary :-D
<diddledan> it's called init and it's in /
<zmoylan-pi> you underestimate ms ability to mix 2 systems and chose worst from both... :-)
<diddledan> there's no estimation needed. I have facts
<popey> yeah, they made their own init
<diddledan> I wonder what magic they had to put in their own init - it seems there's a bit of copying of windows config by the init process as provided
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> daftykins: <diddledan> ok, that's interesting. I tried replacing /init from my ubuntu-on-windows and restarted the lxss service - seems /init gets replaced by the system on startup of the service every time
<diddledan> and.. <diddledan> guess MS don't want us to run a real init :-p
<diddledan> then popey chimed-in with (which my reply was to where you went o0) <popey> yeah, they made their own init
<diddledan> daftykins: and now you're caught-up with everything that happened while you were away :-D
<daftykins> that works on two levels ;D
<daftykins> it's Microsofts, init!
<daftykins> yaaaay
<daftykins> i shall call you my IRC message taker
<diddledan> oh yeah, I questioned what a kornbluth was but zmoylan-pi had nary a clue
<diddledan> totes microsoft's init, init
<daftykins> kornbluth is Germany's freenode server, which i use(d)
<diddledan> gotchabob
<daftykins> i've just switched to Wilhelm in France after giving up on him coming back though
<daftykins> so i guess now i'm seeing Wilhelm </Archer>
<diddledan> I guess they named it after cecil kornbluth who came up in my googling
<diddledan> or Cyril? I can't remember now
 * diddledan goes and googles him again
<diddledan> cyril
<daftykins> figgis
<diddledan> consider him well and truly googled! with bing
<daftykins> ah, bung
<daftykins> still find it funny those microsoft guys at the build event said google
<daftykins> whoops ;D fired!
<diddledan> you should watch pretty much any presentation by MS' Scott Hanselman - he's a good presenter and funny
<diddledan> it was watching him I first heard the phrase "I'll just Google it. With Bing"
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ah i think he did say that so maybe that's just his thing
<daftykins> http://fittish.deadspin.com/secret-thermal-camera-footage-allegedly-shows-seven-pro-1771492666
<daftykins> shame the vid is French
<diddledan> it's a bit touch-and-go with the footage they gathered. it might or it might not be motorised - the heat signature is only slightly different compared to other riders so it might just be their bike behaving differently to the friction of the rider peddling. really needs accurate temperature readings
<diddledan> of course while they're gathering accurate temperatures they could just as easily take the thing apart
<daftykins> could be quite fun to have a witch hunt and cut open bikes though
<daftykins> apart from the waste, i'm not fond of waste
<daftykins> g'night folks o/ have a good week!
<knightwise> morning
<penutgelo> it is
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bittin> http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/98906/ubuntu-16-04-from-warty-to-wimpy-las-413/
<MooDoo> morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Pet Owners Independence Day! ð
<ujjain> morning all
<ujjain> is it John's Birthday Party or Johns Birthday Party?
<ujjain> my name is Dennis, it's Dennis' Birthday Party?
<ujjain> my birthday is in 4 weeks and I'm planning a party
<popey> ujjain: all correct
<davmor2> popey: and they wonder why English is hard to learn
<davmor2> JamesTait: loads of suggestions, but basically, hounds of love, who let the dogs out, dogs day afternoon, love cats, cool for cats, and finally anything by the petshop boys :D
<zmoylan-pi> and not i walk the lion by johnny cash? :-P
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: lion sleeps tonight by tight fit maybe, oh and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSTBFZ-To2E
<diddledan> davmor2: born free, maybe, too?
<davmor2> diddledan: No I think Charly wins over all :)
<diddledan> I made a rant about WSL on the Windows Feedback Hub: feedback-hub:?contextid=387&feedbackid=a80d04ba-398d-4cee-82fc-f91e61013bf9&form=1&src=2
<diddledan> unfortunately the feedback hub doesn't list the feedback via an http uri
<diddledan> maybe I should suggest that as a new feature
<popey> Happy Birthday Gord... miss you :(
<diddledan> yikes: https://twitter.com/mikko/status/722104854173376512
<zmoylan-pi> what's googles definition of compromised? facebook thumbs up button? :-)
<daftykins> diddledan: mmm seems few know it's not a set and forget thing to run a site
<D3VLiiNLAD89> are we allowed to talk raspberry here?
<Safiyyah> Need advice on buying a new notebook,  anyone here?
<daftykins> hi Safiyyah, keeping well?
<Safiyyah> Am good,  you?
<daftykins> yeah all well thanks :) in the market for new toys is it?
<Safiyyah> Yes
<Safiyyah> Also last time my computer was called a museum piece,  I  need to know what upgrades to do to make it  dual monitor,  one monitor being a 43 inch TV monitor
<Safiyyah> Well at least am here for fun information,  not  a dead computer
<daftykins> a second TV whilst keeping the existing one that requires the manual config file each time?
<Safiyyah> Yes
<daftykins> mmm life is going to get harder with keeping that one around, if you'll have to keep using it over VGA
<Safiyyah> The upgrade would leave it's HdMi port available
<daftykins> ah cool so you could switch to a glorious digital connection and leave behind the troubles
<Safiyyah> At the moment it is busy supporting the Bluray player and the  wii
<daftykins> last time you popped in you had to get something new didn't you? i forget what
<Safiyyah> I have one HdMi slot in my graphics card....  That might ve tge upgrade needed
<daftykins> it'd need another appropriate output too
<daftykins> you said notebook though... are you after replacing the desktop with a laptop, or upgrading the desktop?
<Safiyyah> Keeping the desktop for media entertainment,  boring giant spreadsheet work,  kids homework etc.  Notebook for studying and work too
<Safiyyah> Kids are growing up,  there is a clash for time on the desktop
<daftykins> and both need to drive the two TVs at once, or only the desktop?
<Safiyyah> Only the desktop
<Safiyyah> Notebook is unrelated
<Safiyyah> I  just want advice
<daftykins> ok, well if the graphics card was the passive asus GT610 or similar i remember, it should have 1 x HDMI, 1 x VGA and 1 x DVI so it could be connected to the two TVs at once - maybe stick to VGA with the existing one, or get an HDMI to DVI cable
<Safiyyah> So if the new one uses tge HdMi port then theoretically it should work
<Safiyyah> Okay cool
<Safiyyah> Now onto the notebook
<Safiyyah> Have a budget of 200
<daftykins> ouch.
<daftykins> that's a tall order
<rewrp> Just got my bq tablet. Now chatting using it!
<daftykins> ok i had a giggle at a silly case on pcworld.com then found .co.uk ;)
<daftykins> diddledan: haha: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3054226/hardware/hands-on-with-the-crazy-looking-stealth-machines-nighthawk-2-pc.html
<daftykins> Safiyyah: you can probably pick up a chromebook for <Â£200 over there, but i wouldn't be so sure about installing ubuntu on them all
<daftykins> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/703_7006_70006_xx_xx/1_20/price-asc/xx-criteria.html
<Safiyyah> Lol
<Safiyyah> I  don't trust chrome books
<Safiyyah> They  don't work offline
<Safiyyah> I  something with a proper hard drive
<daftykins> all the Â£250 and under systems typically give a real problem or outright prevent Linux installation
<Safiyyah> Hmm
<Safiyyah> I was eying an Asus on very
<daftykins> where?
<Safiyyah> http://www.very.co.uk/asus-e200-ha-interegl-atomtrade-x5-processor-2gbnbspram-32gb-ssd-hard-drive-116-inch-2-in-1-laptop-with-free-1-year-subscription-to-microsoft-office-365-personal-gold/1600059101.prd
<daftykins> yeah that's the same thing, it claims SSD but it's really an eMMC drive
<daftykins> something like this would be infinitely more capable - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-ideapad-Laptop-Notebook-Purple/dp/B015Q3BKO0
<Safiyyah> Monitor should be around 10 inches
<Safiyyah> Will be taking it out and about
<Safiyyah> Sorry I should have said
<Safiyyah> Nice colour though
<daftykins> mmm yeah you're not going to get that, for that money and be able to install Linux
<Safiyyah> Okay show me what you want to recommend as long as it's a 10 inch ish
<Safiyyah> Let me see the damage
<daftykins> nah i'm sayin'g i've got nothing
<Safiyyah> Awww
<daftykins> the above Lenovo isn't very portable
<daftykins> i think it does 4hrs tops with Windows, so i dread to think what battery life with Linux would be
<Safiyyah> It's as big as my husband's laptop
<Safiyyah> That's too big
<Safiyyah> Oh does Linux chew out the battery?
<daftykins> in my experience it often doesn't compare
<daftykins> hmm for 10" i think you'd be looking at tablets, where the Linux install angle might be a no-go
<Safiyyah> Hmm let me do some more thinking gor a couple of days and come back
<Safiyyah> Atleast we solved the monitor issue
<Safiyyah> For the desktop
<Safiyyah> Maybe I can stretch to 11 inches
<Safiyyah> But no more
<Safiyyah> What happened to ubuntu on eepc
<Safiyyah> ?
<Safiyyah> Did that end?
<daftykins> netbooks are utterly rubbish and only good for recycling now
<daftykins> in fact i argued they were so on their release
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> Safiyyah: you know i actually have one of my clients' old travelling business laptops that can be donated to a good home, as we've retired it... you could have it for postage cost
<daftykins> few years old, but it runs the lower end ones like xubuntu great
<Safiyyah> Send me a private message
<Safiyyah> Can't work out how to do it on andchat
<ali1234> daftykins: if you think netbooks are too slow, do you think a phone can run a desktop?
<daftykins> that's a flawed question given netbooks are a set spec from x years ago
<ali1234> do you think a modern phone is faster than a netbook?
<daftykins> failing to see the point here, maybe you're mistaking me for someone that liked the convergence idea
<ali1234> someone must think its a good idea
<daftykins> *facepalm*
<ali1234> would be interesting to see some benchmarks
<ali1234> did the M10 ship yet?
<popey> some people have received theirs
<mapito> hi all
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> you've got more nicks than a manx!
<mapito> ;]
<n1md4> hi.  i was looking to upgrade to 16.04 from 15.10 but it's not yet available through the repos, but is on iso https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes/ when is it due to be rolled out?
<daftykins> #ubuntu would be better right now
<n1md4> thanks, daftykins, i'll give that a try.
<daftykins> they have a date of the 22nd or 24th according to the site, so i'd be surprised if it's out yet
<daftykins> let the early adopters get burnt ;)
<n1md4> ... well, that's also what I thought.  Oh, well there is that :)
<n1md4> I may then just be patient.
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-19
<n1md4> thanks, bye.
<diddledan> thursday
<popey> Google is a bit dead here
<popey> docs, mail, plus...
<popey> probably means bed time
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> normally it's virgin media's desyncs that enforce early bed, i found - in England
<mapito> desync? modem econnecting?
<mapito> *reconnecting
<knightwise> morning
<ball> Mornin'
<ball> Goodnight.
<MooDoo> morning all
<Guest1123> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Hanging Out Day! ð
 * Guest1123 kicks nickserv
<zmoylan-pi> do we let strangers hang out here? :-)
<Guest1123> Most certainly not. ð
<Myrtti> tsk.
<knightwise> morning peeps
<knightwise> I'm feeling daring today
<knightwise> went to work with my ubuntu phone ... AND my ubuntu laptop
<davmor2> knightwise: and it just worked end of drama right?
<knightwise> davmor2: so far so good. the ubuntu phone isn't perfect but its able to do what I need on a basic level.
<knightwise> still have the ipad with a simcard as a failover
<knightwise> i run my company off my phone and such
<knightwise> so it REALY needs to work
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYcX534JqG4 or if it is the other Hanging https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXx1S6O-T30
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> ok :) doing a full ubuntu day today
<knightwise> so far things are going ok , but the ubuntu phone is a tad on the slow side sometimes
<knightwise> 14.04 xps to work WITH the Ubuntu phone. (I am carrying my ipad as a backup)
<zmoylan-pi> but is the ubuntu phone slow because of the os or the hardware do you think? i've heard it said it's the mediocre hardware
<popey> bpoth
<popey> -p
<popey> the bq e4.5 isn't a terrifically fast phone
<popey> and we have identified some bottlenecks in software
<popey> there's a team working on it
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: what popey said
<knightwise> You cant compare it when it comes to speed to a high end flagship android or IOS phone, but you cant compare the price either
<ali1234> my phone cost Â£50 and it never feels slow
<knightwise> ali1234: nokia 3310 ?
<zmoylan-pi> i can only hopee it keeps improving and becomes available over the counter
<ali1234> no, blade apex 2
<ali1234> it has the same CPU has the moto g
<knightwise> looks nice :)
<zmoylan-pi> i have an android i got for â¬69 huawei y625 i use as a mini tablet and i use a nokia asha 302 dumbphone as phone
 * knightwise last time i'm buying a samsung flagship OR an ios flagship phone
<ali1234> nobody buys flagship phones anymore ... they actually downgraded the CPU in the S7 because having a fast CPU in a phone is completely pointless
<zmoylan-pi> ios was too locked down for me and google just seems to get creepier every year
<ali1234> and because noody is willing to pay more for a faster one
<knightwise> Samsung is becoming the bonzi buddy of mobiles these days
<davmor2> ali1234: it's actually more the power drain, I think there is a half way point where if you keep it so the phone lasts longer than a day you keep the apps running without glitches everyone is happy
<ali1234> it's purely that nobody wants to pay Â£500 for a phone when they can buy one for Â£50 and it does all the exact same things
<zmoylan-pi> apple still manage
<ali1234> apple are struggling because of this
<davmor2> knightwise: what the hell is gekko anyway?
<zmoylan-pi> sales are dropping but that might be more they have reached saturation
<ali1234> it's not so much that they've reached saturation as they've reached saturation in the market that's willing to pay $700 for a phone
<ali1234> which is a market which is shrinking
<knightwise> gekko is the mail client
<davmor2> knightwise: gekko do you mean dekko
<davmor2> knightwise: the email client on the phone
<knightwise> Sorry Dekko !
<knightwise> Got it to play nice with the Google contact list ...
<knightwise> so now i can use it for the company
<davmor2> knightwise: nice
<ujjain> who is a Global Cross-Platform Broadcast client based in West London?
<popey> could be anyone really. there's a bunch of media companies in west london
<diddledan> http://thenextweb.com/insider/2016/04/17/turns-dude-didnt-delete-entire-company-single-line-code/%E2%80%8B/
<diddledan> we obviously didn't see that coming, did we?!
<diddledan> popey: Ujjain: "a bunch of media companies" <-- soho is the media production centre for britain
<diddledan> pretty much every facilities house is there
<ujjain> hmm,
<diddledan> I know this, because daddy!
<diddledan> having a VTR engineer in the family means I find out a lot about broadcast and media production in-stories
<diddledan> although he's retired now
<diddledan> ujjain: it's probably SKY though
<ujjain> yeah could be yeah
<diddledan> the warcraft movie might be fun https://youtu.be/65AjY_nRdqE
<davmor2> diddledan: like every game based movie it will either be awesome or awful and nothing inbetween
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> I still like tomb raider - even though it's terrible
<diddledan> probably because it's got Angelina's jolies
<davmor2> diddledan: tut tut, I enjoyed them too even though they weren't great, I also liked the original hitman film, max payne was just weird, doom was god awful
<diddledan> doom was .. yeah .. they really didn't do that well
<diddledan> the first-person bit was just plain stupid
<davmor2> diddledan: No I disagree, if they had done the whole thing like it was a game of doom (with the good graphics obviously) I think it would of been a much better film. I mean how many people will sit and watch a good player play a decent first person and love it
<Azelphur> I've been running KDE on my laptop for a while now, getting seriously tempted to switch to it from XFCE o.O
<Azelphur> It seems forward thinking, but in a sensible way, I like KDE connect, it's really nice
<Azelphur> and the fact that they have most of the compiz features implemented (although why no mouse bindings, so strange)
<daftykins> only Ktrouble is you'll start Kthinking all Kthings begin with a K
<popey> Klies
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> at least they follow the principlr of kiss
<daftykins> KDE is shiny, student
<ali1234> Azelphur: no mouse bindings because everything on KDE uses the same binding system, and that thing doesn't support mouse buttons, never has
<Azelphur> ali1234: still weird, really should support it
<Azelphur> daftykins: I know, Gwenview really confused me.
<daftykins> that doesn't have a K!
<zmoylan-pi> the k is not only silent but invisible...
<daftykins> :D
<Azelphur> I just received a lovely letter from free, telling me how they're currently reviewing their price plans and in order to offer their customers the most competitive deals, they sometimes have to phase out older tarrifs, like mine, so they are raising my bill to Â£20/mo for the same thing...but giving me an exclusive Â£3 monthly discount!
<Azelphur> three, not free, oops :)
<Azelphur> Corperate doublespeak at it's finest though, I must say
<daftykins> what's the rate you're on now?
<Azelphur> Â£12.60/mo
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> i went with O2 for my clients' travelling business phone + separate mobile data SIM for his laptop
<daftykins> they did this evil thing without asking where if he rocked up in a new country, which he does a lot with worldwide travel, they'd instantly throw on the bill Â£99 for 'a month of free data'
<daftykins> cue having to call in to complain - i got a Â£500 refund arranged o0
<zmoylan-pi> they are trying to phase out prepay her in ireland and replace the plans with rolling contracts.  for me this would be a 400% increase...
<daftykins> yowzer
<Azelphur> https://Ç¢.cc/-e1
<Azelphur> I really do have to give them credit for the corporate doublespeak, for a letter saying "we're nearly doubling your monthly bill" it really comes off well
<zmoylan-pi> i use the phone so little that â¬5 lasts 2-3 months. under rolling contract i'd have to pay â¬5 every 2 weeks just to stay connected... too expensive for how little i use it
<zmoylan-pi> my personal best is â¬5 for 6 months
<zmoylan-pi> so now only tescomobile in ireland does prepay but it looks like they are moving away from it as it's no longer mentioned in their plans
<daftykins> no competition over there to hop to someone else?
<zmoylan-pi> so if they bump me to rolling contract i'll just dump all my sims
<daftykins> amusingly you'd probably do better having a smartphone and jump on public wifi with skype XD
<zmoylan-pi> lots of competition but lots of doublespeak
<Azelphur> My mobile is my primary phone, I have pay as you go on my landline and don't actually have a phone plugged in.
<Azelphur> but still, I'm really just amazed by the wording in that letter, whoever wrote that is definitely good at the corporate doublespeak lol
<daftykins> hmm does that abolish line rental costs? my landline is Â£9.99/mo i think
<zmoylan-pi> if they want to gouge idiots into paying â¬40 per month fair enough but i don't play games and will just drop them
<daftykins> have to have it as my VDSL2 is phone line delivered though
<Azelphur> daftykins: no it doesn't sadly, still have to have line rental for VDSL2
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: yea I will never pay that much, I was paying Â£12.60 and hopefully I'll get something new in that ballpark
<daftykins> oh you do use the same tech
<zmoylan-pi> â¬10 a month to me is money wasted.  for 2-3 texts and 1-2 calls and using data on 2g-3g 1-2 days <50mb per day
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: yea, each to his own. I use mine a lot, go through a few GB every month easily.
<zmoylan-pi> and that's fine but the rolling contracts seems to have come in as the eu clampe down on roaming
<Azelphur> I'm not sure what you mean by rolling contract, I generally stay out of contracts and just pay once a month
<Azelphur> like to be free to switch if they screw me, as they often do
<zmoylan-pi> so they're trying to push people who barely use their services into stupid price plans that are wrong for them
<Azelphur> oh totally agree, that's common too
<zmoylan-pi> a rolling contract is the new prepay in ireland.  â¬5-10 every 2 weeks covers calls and data but at the end of the 2 weeks you need to pay again even if you didn't use the phone
<zmoylan-pi> it's not like prepay were you have credit which is drained as you use it.
<Azelphur> yea, that's horrible, pay as you go is dying and I don't like it
<Azelphur> I'd love to buy something for a backup internet connection, pay for 10GB and just use it when my connection is down until it runs out, but they expire it every month -_-
<zmoylan-pi> what will happen is people like me will find ways to use vibre or whatsapp for sms on wifi and voip on computers/tablets for voice and have no dealings with phone company.  and we will become an expanding group as students save money
<Azelphur> yea, I'm heavily using VOIP myself, I actually have Skype out although I'm tempted to drop it
<daftykins> the same scenario you describe is what makes travel for us islanders hell
<daftykins> even coming up to England we don't have the same telcos at all, so it's just get rinsed on roaming or pick up a PAYG - often it takes a day to get that going though
<daftykins> you can't buy anything over here or set it up here often too, as they often need to see the home network to activate
<Azelphur> lame
<Azelphur> that's one of the things I'll hate about leaving three - International roaming isn't gonna be good
<daftykins> i wonder if t-mo goes one way only, my friend in the US uses it and can go on data in England
<daftykins> (t-mobile US)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-20
<mappps> hi
<knightwise> hey mappps
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> morning peeps
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> hey davmor2 how are you doin
<davmor2> Busier than a bee, but good thanks you
<knightwise> same here :)
<knightwise> 4 days of fulltime work at the main client + a bunch of smaller projects are keeping me busy
<davmor2> knightwise: Release week, I don't think I need to say any more than that really do I ;)
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2 knightwise
<knightwise> davmor2: i understan
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
 * knightwise listening to the podcast 
<davmor2> MooDoo: how were you adventures in Mousewich
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> my 3yr old daughter is insisting on being called r2d2. i am snowtrooper and mummy is sky lukewalker
<davmor2> foobarry: know your place you imperial scum sucker
<davmor2> foobarry: does Mommy say this isn't the droid your looking?
<foobarry> sometimes she decides to just talk blip blop blip
<foobarry> kids can keep up the charade for hours without forgetting
<davmor2> foobarry: that's because fantasy is all real to kids, it's just the stupid adults that forget their parts ;)
<foobarry> i had dreams about dragons last night
<foobarry> cos i killed one in skyrim just before bed
<davmor2> foobarry: you're one up on me I can't remember the last dream I had
<knightwise> Perhaps you can pop her head out of the sunroof of the car and drive around on the freeway
<knightwise> get the real "astromech on an X-wing" experience
<davmor2> knightwise: he would be instantly fined for not having her wear a seatbelt
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Volunteer Recognition Day! ð
<knightwise> You could lock her in place by partialy closing the sunroof
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsoqRvYqWDg just for you :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, ð
<davmor2> knightwise: so how did you get on with your all ubuntu experiment
<diddledan> https://www.petri.com/eu-formally-charges-google-antitrust-violations
<davmor2> diddledan: yeah I'm sure it is just Europes way to make more money, Fine MS for browser and now Google too :)
<zmoylan-pi> god forbid they make google obey the rules
<zmoylan-pi> even if the rules can seem silly
<knightwise> davmor2: pretty good. The phone was a little frustrating since I had some issuew with battery life
<knightwise> but it got stuff done
<knightwise> as for the desktop : Still workin on Ubuntu :) At work ! ! !
<diddledan> I watched the new start warts last night. I like how they had both generations together in the same film for the old guard to hand-off to the new. Although I can't figure out Whoopie Goldburg's Gainan being on the ship where kirk gets sucked into the nexus
<zmoylan-pi> it was the tardis appearing in the background that confused me...
<zmoylan-pi> and don't get me started on bowmans pod from 2001 been in the prequel... http://www.eeggs.com/items/1935.html
<knightwise> Sshhttaaaap !  please stop mixing the universes
<knightwise> my geek ocd is going haywire
<knightwise> holy crap its true !
<knightwise> Thats bowmans pod !
<diddledan> knightwise: I can't believe they killed...
<zmoylan-pi> my god it's full of star wars...
<diddledan> Kenny. you bar stewards
<zmoylan-pi> 1 tshirt to unite them all... http://acddistribution.blogspot.ie/2015/06/new-from-offworld-designs-omg-its-r2d2.html
<diddledan> 1 tshirt to bind them
<zmoylan-pi> 1 tshirt to flush out the ocd...
<diddledan> you have to watch out for people randomly starting to twitch as you approach
<diddledan> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<DJones> Aww, how sad,Victoria Wood has passed away from cancer
<diddledan> ffs
<diddledan> 2016 shtapit!
<diddledan> 2016 has been a bad year for my heroes
<DJones> Yep, couldn't agree more with that
<DJones> She was there through my childhood into becoming an adult.  Same eith the young ones
<davmor2> diddledan: let this be a lesson to you to stop having hero's
<davmor2> But man that sucks
<davmor2> Victoria Wood was one of my favourite comedy writers she always just did enough to raise a smile without going too far
<DJones> davmor2: Have to agree with that, she could make you laugh just by standing/sitting in front of you whithout opening her mouth
<DJones> All of the audience with victoria wood shows have been amazing
<bashrc> there seems to have been a cull of celebs this year
<bashrc> was never a big VW fan, but vaguely remember some sketch of hers involving a tent
<DJones> bashrc: Yep, there's a supergroup of musicians up there now
<DJones> Travelling willbury's will have nothing on them if they release an album
<foobarry> VW wrote a song that morrissey ripped off for the smiths
<bashrc> heh
<davmor2> Victoria Woods and Les Dawson are the two comedians I loved behind a piano especially when they went of key for Les or off song for Victoria :D
<diplo> zmoylan-pi: I want that tshirt!
<diplo> Bah hadn't noticed the time :D
<sebsebseb> popey: ping
<popey> sebsebseb: pong
<sebsebseb> popey: so I got the cheaper Ubuntu tablet
<sebsebseb> today
<sebsebseb> ,but yep
<sebsebseb> not working so well without a bluetooth mouse nad keyboard
<sebsebseb> I wonder if O2G will work I guess not
<sebsebseb> popey: when setting up it would let me put in the passcode using the touch screen keyboard, but after set up it never comes up except for unlocking.  really no way to just have the touch screen keyboard like the phone or there is but a ha ack?
<sebsebseb> seems if I choose on a bluetooth keyboard and mouse on amazon in the next two hours and order it
<sebsebseb> I should even get by tommorwo if I do one day delivery on check out as well
<bashrc> are ubuntu tablets available?
<sebsebseb> bashrc: indeed
<sebsebseb> bashrc: now the pre order is over as well
<sebsebseb> so can buy without the case and screen protecter if youw ant
<sebsebseb> bashrc: I pre ordered this one though
<sebsebseb> that one
<sebsebseb> that one, using lap top since can't type on the tablet
<bashrc> ah
<sebsebseb> since no blueetouth mouse nad keyboard as I was aying, maybe  the O2G  device will work for a usb mouse and keyboard though, not tried that yet
<sebsebseb> bashrc: yeah that's annoying actsaully why does it require a blueetooth keyboard and mouse or apaprnatly I mean I knew that, I read lots of stuff saying that ,but now I got one, and I am thinking why
<sebsebseb> I was in Brussels even where they said on the talks for the tablet when I asked that yeah would need blue tooth
<sebsebseb> but it should work with a touch screen keyboard most of the time to really, or you would think so, but nope it seems
<bashrc> why does a tablet need a separate keyboard?
<sebsebseb> exactly
<sebsebseb> touch sreen keyboard only came up to put in the wireless password,  and  it comes up also to unlock the tablet  but that's it, not seen it otherwise
<sebsebseb> might be a way to hack it to bring it up all the time like the phone though
<popey> sebsebseb: might want to ask in #ubuntu-touch
<popey> i dont even have one
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah I know you don't
<sebsebseb> but thought you might have known
<bashrc> looks ok
<sebsebseb> bashrc: I found out  what it was in touch
<sebsebseb> comes up for the native apps
<sebsebseb> but not things like gedit firefox etc
<zmoylan-pi> a tshirt like diplo is timeless... :-)
<sebsebseb> I guess that's where indeed need the bluetooth keyboard
<bashrc> I think when you connect a keyboard it becomes a desktop OS
<bashrc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/02/bq-aquaris-m10-ubuntu-tablet-announced-specs
<sebsebseb> bashrc: yeah that's the idea I think
<bashrc> cool
<sebsebseb> I guess that's why gedit firefox etc didn't work as I was saying
<sebsebseb> need bluetooth for that
<sebsebseb> someone said use the native apps in touch though, and yep that brings up the touch keyboard
<daftykins> cor, early documentary footage found in colour of a young David Attenborough
<daftykins> that sounds fun
<zmoylan-pi> when mammoths stomped across europe... ;-)
<daftykins> they seem to be doing so much with him it's like he hasn't passed away when they want him too, so they have to keep putting out memorium stuff as specials!
<daftykins> *to
<zmoylan-pi> next up the feeding frenzy of the great white... without a cage... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> or they could do the old seal costume with the polar bears trick... http://www.gifbin.com/982508
<daftykins> "kissed by a rose on a grave"
<daftykins> oh wrong Seal
<davmor2> daftykins: Kissed by a rose on the grey
<daftykins> is that how it goes?
<Bob_8732>  quebert
 * zmoylan-pi starts singing tomorrow... http://betanews.com/2016/04/20/canonical-ubuntu-linux-16-04-lts/
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: stop you're making it rain
<pavlushka> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<daftykins> and so it begins
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-21
<mappps> hi;]
<daftykins> o/
<mappps> the boy ..film sounds ok
<daftykins> my bet is it's about a boy
<diddledan> https://motherboard.vice.com/read/in-a-first-judge-throws-out-evidence-obtained-from-fbi-malware
<daftykins> ooh err
<daftykins> mmm chocolate raisins
<pavlushka> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<daftykins> please don't do that
<pavlushka> daftykins: cp
<daftykins> courgette piracy?
<pavlushka> daftykins: what? never heard of that,
<daftykins> i was guessing what your 'cp' was :D
<pavlushka> cp, And I was guessing what your courgette means, http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/glossary/courgette
<pavlushka> :p
<pavlushka> and yeah, we do that often, your cp thing, :p
<daftykins> i was more just asking what you meant, not giving rise to your nonsensical stream of gibberish
<pavlushka> daftykins: if you are busy, you can say that but please dont talk like that, I have no intention to disturb anyone.
<diddledan> smh
<daftykins> indeed sir, shake those haribo!
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> :-p
<pavlushka> did I get anything wrong that diddledan smh-ing?
<sebsebseb>  
<SebUbuntuTablet>  
<diddledan> what music should I put-on for a heavy coding session today?
<knightwise> Jean Michel Jarre : Teo and Tea
<zmoylan-pi> sunshine and lollipops... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQmBXEZEYtg
<zmoylan-pi> if it's good for car chases... :-)
<awilkins> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<awilkins> :p
<diddledan> today?
<MooDoo> morning all
<awilkins> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/04/20/canonical-unveils-6th-lts-release-of-ubuntu-with-16-04/
<knightwise> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you knightwise?
<knightwise> Doin ok :)
<knightwise> Listening to some music on spotify , then finding that music on youtube and downloading it :)
<knightwise> mps-youtube ftw :)
<MooDoo> knightwise: just studying for my MS exam, but not taking it that serious as it's not till July
<knightwise> MooDoo: not enough pressure for a procrastinator to veer into action
<MooDoo> knightwise: I'll read a lot this weekend.
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> hey davmor2
<MooDoo> hi davmor2
<davmor2> morning knightwise MooDoo, 'ow am ya?
<knightwise> Toppadamownin2ya
<davmor2> knightwise: house of pain really have a lot to answer for, it's all I hear when I see that :)
<knightwise> lol
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy High Five Day! âµ ð
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<SuperMatt> morning all
<knightwise> hey SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> today might be the day I move back to Ubuntu
 * knightwise has been browsing around for a way to organise content from RSS feeds into my automated social media streams
<knightwise> read : Tying together rss reader ifttt and Hootsuite auto-posting
<knightwise> SuperMatt: Windows Millenium is going to miss you
<SuperMatt> I've been using Fedora for the last year or so
<diddledan> :-o
<knightwise> Pirchforks anyone ?
<knightwise> piTchforks
<knightwise> Considering moving to tinytiny RSS and hosting the whole Shbang mysellf
<SuperMatt> knightwise: good call
<SuperMatt> I use it myself
<knightwise> SuperMatt: have you tried any integrations with Pocket or Instapaper ?
<zmoylan-pi> create a static website on dropbox for all your rss feeds
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSC9cgvtkRs
<zmoylan-pi> for mobile rss i use opera minis rss reader
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: a static website for RSS feeds ?
<knightwise> davmor2: great track
<zmoylan-pi> well if you're filtering the rss feeds for news items that might interest you then filter them out to a static web page you can access knightwise
<knightwise> Like the "published feeds" in tt-rss ?
<knightwise> the ifttt script i have running takes all the articles I push to instapaper into a spreadsheet (links and description) . Those get uploaded to Hootsuite for scheduled auto-posting to facebook and linkedin
<foobarry> i'd like a bot that removes dupes from twitter feeds and republishes them
<foobarry> had to unsub from boingboing etc because of the horrendous dupe spamming
<zmoylan-pi> i just move the busy more noise twitter feeds into a list and use plume or tweetdeck to show those lists in alternate streams
<foobarry> there is a better way
<SuperMatt> knightwise: no, I haven't, sorry
<diddledan> is anyone here using virginmedia?
<diddledan> my connection went down at about 1-2 am last night and is still dead as an upside-down dog
<diddledan> very helpful, also, that the vm status page is currently offline
<zmoylan-pi> do they have a outage page anywhere?
<diddledan> they do, but as I say, it's offline
<diplo> bigcalm and  popey do I belive
<popey> o/
<diddledan> o/
<diddledan> http://www.virginmedia.com/servicestatus goes to a "holding" page for me
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like they rm -rf a server somewhere... :-)
<diddledan> like 123-reg did?
<popey> I am on virgin and i'm still here
<diplo> You can still make payments! :P
<MooDoo> I've virgin and i'm still here too :)
<MooDoo> diddledan: 123-reg was a huge fubar
<diplo> Ah twas MooDoo on VM :)
<davmor2> I'm on virgin too
 * MooDoo is looking to build a new router
<zmoylan-pi> all is well https://national.virginmedia.com/service-announcements/status
<zmoylan-pi> but that might just be a lgl
<diplo> When the big BT outage happened, all their status pages said the same :)
<zmoylan-pi> hence lgl, lying green light... :-)
<diddledan> that's their non-cable services
<diddledan> but I'm guessing it's just me as popey and davmor2 have reported they're fine
<MooDoo> any one ever played with pfsense?
<diplo> A long time ago MooDoo - we're thinking of testing it at work again
<MooDoo> yeah i'm looking into it now, not necessarily work, but definately at home
<diplo> That's when I last used it at home, had a old PC running it with a few connectors
<MooDoo> yeah want to turn my vm super hub into modem only mode.
<diplo> but with routers getting cheaper i moved away
<MooDoo> yeah there is that as well
<diplo> I bought the witi for that reason, but can't get modem passthrough to work with sky :/
<diplo> So going to move to VM soon
<MooDoo> ah i'll see what I do, always in two minds
<diplo> What would you run pfsense on?
<MooDoo> self built mini atx probably
<diplo> So cheap and powerful now
<MooDoo> yeah definately
<diplo> Mine was an old p166 or something, no lights on it and PSU probably cost me LOTS!
<MooDoo> just that it's probably cheaper to get a cheap ac router than build a pc
<diplo> But less control I guess, unless you go for openwrt
<MooDoo> yeah, I think I'd rather go with something a little more powerful as my kids are getting older and will want internet access and their own computers soon
<diplo> hah exactly my thoughts too
<diplo> Yours youtube fanatics ?
<MooDoo> diplo: oh just a bit, fgtv etc etc
<davmor2> MooDoo: just use opendns and have it block everything :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: I use opendns any way
<davmor2> MooDoo: you think you do do you ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: ?
<davmor2> MooDoo: I get a nice mix of opendns error pages and virginmedia error pages as on the super hub there is a virgindns entry you can't get rid of :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: I use my own dhcp server so I can give the client on the lan the opendns dns
<MooDoo> which im guessing you do too?
<davmor2> MooDoo: indeed opendns on my openwrt router but the gateway to the internet is still the superhub which can then randomly change the outcome :)
<MooDoo> yay virgin :)
 * MooDoo wonders how many quit messages will be people upgrading ;)
<foobarry> how do you deal with trolls in the workplace?
<foobarry> i.e. people who know how to make the exact comment to wind you and others up, to obstruct work rather than make progress, usually the most lazy good for nothing out there, which winds you up all the more?
<foobarry> its very hard to ignore
<popey> i dont have any
<foobarry> it's easier to ignore internet trolls, just click and move on
<foobarry> i'm not used to it with grown-ups
<TwistedLucidity> Ignore the comments. If performance is sub-par, speak with their manager. If they are being actively abusive/aggressive, speak with HR.
<davmor2> oi popey I'm not having that I go out of my way to troll you ;)
<popey> true dat
<knightwise> Fire-extinguisher-to-the-face helps
<davmor2> foobarry: mostly ignore them, if it gets aggressive or impacts your work inform a manager
<foobarry> oh i tell him
<foobarry> he knows
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: I believe that's against the CoC. Finding someone at the bottom of the stairs is, however, a tragic accident
 * MooDoo is wathing a lot of IS FB down messages on twitter :)
<knightwise> Gravity is a patient lover :)
<foobarry> fb isn't down
<foobarry> i'm watching a video right now
<MooDoo> fb it is for quite a few people
<sebsebseb> popey: what's an email client for Ubuntu Touch?  thought there was maybe one by default, but brif look now and doesn't seem like it
<brobostigon> dekko?
<JamesTait> Dekko is on the phone by default since OTA10, I think?
<DanChapman> Yeah it was included by default in ota-10
<sebsebseb> oh dekko hmm
<sebsebseb> I don't thini that's on the tablet though
<sebsebseb> but that's  a bit of a older version by default I guess
 * sebsebseb really quite likes the cheaper tablet so far, wil buy FHD at a later date as well, got HD yep
<sebsebseb> I  just bought bluetooth keyboards and mouse and such on Amazon last night, but  I think I am going to start using a lot :)
<popey> the tablet shipped with ota 9
<popey> AIUI
<popey> I don't have one
<sebsebseb> ah ha 0ta 9 that explains no dekko I guess then, I did see there was some kind of update or someting though I Think
<sebsebseb> what does AI mean?
<popey> yeah, update it
<sebsebseb> yep Firefox or Ubuntu browser for browsing
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah I will tommorow I think,  got to break away from the computer etc world pretty soon,  since got some plans for today,  things to get ready for etc
<davmor2> sebsebseb: in tablet mode use the ubuntu web browser, with the keyboard and mouse you can use either.
<SuperMatt> is 16.04 officially released now? Lots of outlets reporting it, but no official word on the site
<MooDoo> sebsebseb: Artificial Intellegence?
<MooDoo> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<TwistedLucidity> WHY NOT!?!
<SuperMatt> I figured as much
 * TwistedLucidity blames popey
<popey> wise
<sebsebseb> davmor2: yeah I have figured that one out I thik
<sebsebseb> davmor2: and you said was it last night
<sebsebseb> or someone
<sebsebseb> davmor2: the convergence apps work sort of with the touch screen, but not to type, need a keyboard to type
<sebsebseb> the native apps work either way
<sebsebseb> and yes a phablet someone else with the tablet I guess
<davmor2> sebsebseb: yes so it is a feature being worked on but is actually really hard to get working well and really low level so lots of work involved. But the goal is to be able to use anything in any mode eventually
<sebsebseb> davmor2: yep and I guess this kind of thing is indeed why convergence isn't quite fully ready yet
<sebsebseb> davmor2: as in ready for joe and jane average for example
<sebsebseb> who may for some reason end up with an Ubuntu device or buying one form some where
<popey> sebsebseb: http://getsuperbook.com/ like the nexdock
<sebsebseb> popey: oh right well, I have already crowd funded the Nexdock :)
<sebsebseb> popey: they probably saw the Nexdock compaigain and thought oh let's do something similar!
<sebsebseb> and where you find out about that one?
<sebsebseb> popey: hmm it's some kid of OS or someting on it to? software?
<sebsebseb> it's got some kind of OS?
<popey> you know as much as me
<TwistedLucidity> "Use NexDock with the latest Windows 10 mobile..." <- yeeargh!
 * TwistedLucidity runs away
<knightwise> The lumia HAS a windows dock to do this
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: no the Nexdock can be used with Android, Ubuntu, lap tops, etc etc too, look more cloestly at the campain
<sebsebseb> also you can't buy that verson of the Nexdock anymore from them
<sebsebseb> since the campain is over
 * sebsebseb right really needs to go and get ready for something now hmm,  especailly if then going to go to cinema a bit later as well
<sebsebseb> bye
<sebsebseb> bye
 * sebsebseb breaks away
 * sebsebseb breaks away from IRC
<sebsebseb> bye
<sebsebseb> bye
<diddledan> so is it out yet?
<Myrtti> nothing on the announcement mailing list yet
<MooDoo> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<MooDoo> diddledan: it is here apparently - http://mirror.bytemark.co.uk/ubuntu-releases/16.04/
<Myrtti> "maybe"
<MooDoo> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<MooDoo> popey: says it's out on twitter :)
<popey> FSVO "it"
<MooDoo> ok that might be the podcast lol
<popey> Gotcha :)
<TwistedLucidity> I guess it's time to upgrade from 14.10. What me, lazy?
<TwistedLucidity> And by "upgrade" I really mean "Nuke & pave"
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<bigcalm> No?
<AuroraAvenue> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<TwistedLucidity> Never fear, Kerbal Space Program 1.1 is out; you can crash rockets until 16.04 drops.
<bigcalm> Are Bytemark wrong? https://twitter.com/bytemark/status/723147660073525248
<bigcalm> I'm confused
<TwistedLucidity> Maybe it's "out" to various parnters, but hasn't yet replicated across enough mirrors for it to be public?
<bigcalm> Could be
<bigcalm> Not on Digital Ocean yet
<AuroraAvenue> popey, Why am I the only one on #ubuntu-community ? Where is everyone ?
<Demented-Idiot> bigcalm: Bytemark run a mirror so they have a copy of 16.04 but until its anounced properly its not the final version :) We've been playing with our deployment systems here in preparation for it to drop
<popey> AuroraAvenue: because the channel is #ubuntu-tommunity-team
<AuroraAvenue> fair enough. cheers
<bigcalm> Who's Tom?
<popey> minus typos
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3`> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 10th September 2016, Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3350-real-ale-train-2016/
<bigcalm> :D
<Myrtti> I think the story I heard years and years ago was basically what TwistedLucidity said, but also with the added reason of discouraging the public to download it so that other mirrors could sync it proper. That isn't to say that there won't be changes to it and it's not the final one.
<Myrtti> or whatevs
<Myrtti> you got the idea
<Myrtti> I'm not in my brightest, hubby had to go to work middle of the night last night for a product launch, so I've not slept the best of nights sleep
<bigcalm> For some reason I was expecting it to be released on the last Thursday of the month
<Myrtti> it's been the third Thursday as far as I remember
<bigcalm> Ah
<Myrtti> with the exception of 10.10
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I kept my wife awake with my snoring. She's not a happy bunny
<bigcalm> Indeed
<popey> We say it's "out" when the release manager sends the mail to the announce list
<popey> because that's when everything is "done"
<Myrtti> we got a new bed last week, it's lush
<popey> including mirroring to CDNs and stuff
<Myrtti> popey: exactomundo
<popey> and every time someone pulls from releases.ubuntu.com etc it reduces the bandwidth for us to sync to mirrors
<bigcalm> I want a new bed. One that has memory foam and not laytex for the topper. There's a horrible me sized dent in the bed where it has settled
<popey> i had that feeling while laying in bed
<AuroraAvenue> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<Myrtti> we've got the best non-spring mattress from IKEA and a Julian Bowen sprung slat bed to go with it
<popey> grabbed phone - said to wifey, shall I get a new mattress? memory foam one
<popey> opened amazon app. clicked "buy it now" and it arrived next day
<popey> done
<popey> i love buying bed from my bed
<Myrtti> the divan had given up the ghost - the support struts had given in under the chipboard
<AuroraAvenue> popey, Are you on 'Prime' , then ?
<Myrtti> and it being divided to two pieces to a head piece and foot piece - it was hitting my hip :-(
<bigcalm> I can't bring myself to buy a bed online. It's one of those things that I need to try 1st
<Myrtti> bigcalm: we had a list of what we needed and wanted and found it online - no showrooms anywhere had it on display.
<bigcalm> IKEA is good then?
<Myrtti> well our bed frame isn't from IKEA, we might get their sprung slats later if need be
<popey> ya
<Myrtti> we just couldn't find a bed frame from them that fulfilled what we wanted, despite the effort
<bigcalm> Considering how much we spent on the mattress we have, I'm loathed to get a new one. Ever
<Myrtti> http://www.ukbedstore.com/wooden-bed-frames/julian-bowen-amsterdam-5ft-kingsize-low-foot-end-oak-bed-frame.html
<AuroraAvenue> popey, Is there a way to install Ubuntu-Touch on a Nexus 4 on Windows 7 ?
<Myrtti> bigcalm: that ticked all our boxes: 1) solid wood 2) sprung slats 3) no footboard 4) space underneath for storage boxes
<popey> AuroraAvenue: yeah, I think so, with the adb tools
<AuroraAvenue> popey, Do you know of a tutorial (?) - 'cos I cant find one.
<AuroraAvenue> popey, Thinking about it - it's alright I shall install 16.04 ontop after today, anyways.
<AuroraAvenue> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<AuroraAvenue> I don't get it - OMG says it is ! http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/04/ubuntu-16-04-download-new-features
<Myrtti> OMG is not the official announcement
<AuroraAvenue> k
<Myrtti> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/
<AuroraAvenue> Always some obscure part of the eco-system - where news actually lives.
<popey> not really. that's the official announcement, but ubuntu.com and other places get updated too
<Myrtti> the crowds are getting restless, getting their pitchforks
<Myrtti> *rubblerubblerubble*
 * JamesTait has a hammer ready to fend them off.
<popey> heheh
 * m0nkey_ will remain on 14.04
<m0nkey_> In other news, the remote start on my car is failing to function.
<Myrtti> awwww
 * AuroraAvenue imagines JamesTait http://i.imgur.com/7NR6wQQ.gifv
<m0nkey_> I think it's the remote battery, because when I got super close to the engine bay it worked.. once.
<m0nkey_> It's a CR2032.. being a computer guy I should have a ton of them. Yet, I can't find one.
<JamesTait> AuroraAvenue, you've been listening to davmor2 too much. ð
<m0nkey_> Oh, in other other news. Parents are on the way over.
<davmor2> JamesTait: pfff he's obviously in qa
<Myrtti> fun times. We've got masses of stuff to do but should try to schedule a trip to see inlaws... ho hum.
<m0nkey_> Anyway, how are you? Everything good?
<Myrtti> just normal everyday life :-) D is upstairs sleeping his last nights 'woo we're finally shipping the labour of months work project tonight... at 0200' lack of sleep away
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> When is it due to ship?
<Myrtti> I think originally February, then March for testing.
<m0nkey_> Oh, so a different project? lol
<Myrtti> yeah
<Myrtti> maybe he'll do something not work related at home for a while...
<Myrtti> (it's not been quite as bad as I might make it sound)
<m0nkey_> :)
<m0nkey_> How's the other project going?
<Myrtti> nothing newsworthy :-)
<Myrtti> ie. no news is good news
<m0nkey_> True
<m0nkey_> Btw, we might be visiting England sometime next year. My niece is getting married, we're not sure of the date, but I'd like to make an effort to come visit you guys.
<Myrtti> ooooo \o/
<AuroraAvenue> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<AuroraAvenue> Getting late - it's usually 2pm.
<m0nkey_> I guess something is not out yet. lol
<AuroraAvenue> 16.04
<ali1234> i seem to recall that last release the factoid didn't even get updated
<m0nkey_> 14.04 4 LIFE!
<SuperMatt> AuroraAvenue: most of them have landed ~5pm, from what I remember
<AuroraAvenue> my bad, sorry.
<Myrtti> I think I've seen anything from 1300 to 1700
<AuroraAvenue> I certainly remember something earlier around 1-2pm ~ but that's going back somewhat.
<AuroraAvenue> Any questions ? #juju channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUbCvcBBeg8
<ali1234> is juju still a thing?
<AuroraAvenue> I guess.
<AuroraAvenue> ali1234: I guess your not a blogger .
<AuroraAvenue> https://jujucharms.com/q/ghost
<JamesTait> ali1234, very much so, yes. âº
<ali1234> i haven't heard anything about it for what seems like years
<JamesTait> Juju 2.0 was released just last week, IIRC.
<AuroraAvenue> Ghost is good, I find http://alternativeto.net/software/ghost/
<ali1234> is it possible to run juju on one computer yet?
<ali1234> in production i mean
<AuroraAvenue> I shall ask.
<ali1234> that was always the big problem for me. it would increase my infrastructure costs about 10x if i need an instance for every virtual machine it uses
<JamesTait> ali1234, so you mean to deploy services to node 0?
<ali1234> i mean i have one dedicated server and i want to use juju
<JamesTait> Yes, you can do that.
<AuroraAvenue> ali1234: Yes it is.
<ali1234> i could do it before but it was always marked "DO NOT USE THIS IN PRODUCTION"
<popey> it's all lxc/lxd now isn't it JamesTait ?
<popey> (I know nothing about juju)
<JamesTait> popey, that's how we tend to use it for development, but you can actually deploy services directly to the bootstrap node.
<brmbrmcar> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<brmbrmcar> :(
 * brmbrmcar cries
<JamesTait> I started out with an exiting VPS and created a Juju environment from it using the manual provider.
<JamesTait> Then do something along the lines of `juju deploy cs:apache2 --to=0` (might not be quite the right syntax).
<brobostigon> anyone seen this bug before? https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=811094
<lubotu3`> Debian bug 811094 in libpam-poldi "broken default configuration" [Important,Open]
<ali1234> "one comical license"
<AuroraAvenue> ali1234: yeah, got that , hehe
<ali1234> i should use that on my projects
<AuroraAvenue> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<Myrtti> AuroraAvenue: for what it's worth, you might not even get an accurate update from lubotu3`'s factoids, unless the locobots are going to be synchronised right after the release is announced
<AuroraAvenue> So it's worthless tryin' ?
<brmbrmcar> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<AuroraAvenue> brmbrmcar: How crouton going ?
<brmbrmcar> I haven't tried it yet for 16.04...
<JamesTait> According to ubuntu.com it is out.
<brmbrmcar> I'll probably do a clean install when it is supported.
<brmbrmcar> Oh yeah!
<AuroraAvenue> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<AuroraAvenue> JamesTait: What the link ?
<ali1234> www.ubuntu.com
<brmbrmcar> ubuntu.com/download
<JamesTait> AuroraAvenue, I'm just going by the banner on ubuntu.com
<brmbrmcar> I'm going by download page.
<ali1234> the images have been up for hours lol
<brmbrmcar> But the download only recently added.
<ali1234> yes
<AuroraAvenue> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/thank-you?country=IM&version=16.04&architecture=amd64
<ali1234> until it's released the images can change
<brmbrmcar> I want Ubuntu 16.04!
<brmbrmcar> I want it!
<ali1234> [Rate 20993.9/569.3 KB]
<ali1234> i think my server is throttled
<highbury> http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/releases.ubuntu.com/16.04/
<ali1234> either that or nobody is bothering with torrents
<highbury> for Kent University's UK Mirror serveice
<highbury> .torrent and .metalink files are there
 * bashrc checks distrowatch
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2016-April/000207.html
<popey> *now* it's out
<Myrtti> gj, congrats to the team
<brmbrmcar> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> It's Out!!! See - http://www.ubuntu.com/download
<brmbrmcar> YAY
<brmbrmcar> Next step: crouton support
<ali1234> popey: did the snappy docs get rewritten as promised?
 * AuroraAvenue deploys his Squirrel Army .....
<popey> que?
<ali1234> oh maybe it was ogra i was talking to
<popey> probbaly
<ali1234> i'll go and ask him rignow, he'll like that lol
<bashrc> I'll download the MATE version whenever it's out and use that as my "new users" distro.
<popey> :)
<ali1234> does 16.04 have the unity 8 preview session thing?
<popey> i dont think it's on the cd
<popey> but in the archive
<popey> but i may have manually installed it
<popey> yeah, not installed here
<popey> unity8-desktop-session-mir
<ali1234> thanks
<ali1234> is there like... a tablet session?
<ali1234> or does it automatically know if you have a touchscreen?
<popey> well, it knows that you don't have a keyboard
<ali1234> but i do have a keyboard
<popey> great!
<ali1234> and a touchscreen
<popey> so you wont get osk
<popey> but you will be able to touch, yeah
<ali1234> it's even multitouch i think
<ali1234> well i'll try it and see what happens
<AuroraAvenue> Downloaded it .. ready to install :-)
<AuroraAvenue> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> It's Out!!! See - http://www.ubuntu.com/download
<diddledan> I'll be ready next time
 * diddledan still coding
<DJones> Another musician being reported as passing away, Prince
<brobostigon> prince, forimally known as prince.
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_%28musician%29
<brobostigon> prince, formally known as prince.
<zmoylan-pi> is his name in unicode?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: "The Unicode Standard contains a no-Prince rule: "the Unicode Standard does not encode idiosyncratic, personal, novel, rarely exchanged, or private-use characters"."
<Myrtti> wondering why there's no sources to BBC
<Myrtti> or Guardian
<Myrtti> for the Prince news
<zmoylan-pi> now on daily fail
<DJones> THis looks like the original source http://www.tmz.com/2016/04/21/prince-dead-at-57/
<DJones> Myrtti: BBC now http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36106778?
<m0nkey_> wtf
<m0nkey_> 2016 is turning into a real killer. :-(
<zmoylan-pi> and it's only april...
<m0nkey_> It's devastating. David Bowie, Terry Wogan, Ronny Corbett, Victoria Wood, now Prince.
<zmoylan-pi> paul daniels and a few others i think
<Myrtti> don't jinx it too much
<Myrtti> not today
<Myrtti> not _today_
<m0nkey_> Oh yeah, forgot about Daniels
<m0nkey_> wow.. parents flight lands in approx 1.5hrs, customs waiting time is 5 minutes. sounds like i got to leave in an hour to go to the airport.
<m0nkey_> the flight also left half hour late
<m0nkey_> basically, what was a 7.5hr flight is less than 6.5
<zmoylan-pi> that's some tail wind...
<m0nkey_> hell yeah
<AuroraAvenue_> Bad Voltage is out ... https://twitter.com/badvoltage/status/723176043893288961
<ali1234> okay 16.04 is installed
<AuroraAvenue_> ali1234: Your ready to blast into this then: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/04/10-things-to-do-after-installing-ubuntu-16-04-lts
<lopta> What makes Ubuntu different from other Linux distributions such as Debian?
<AuroraAvenue_> lopta: Wow your late to the party.
 * AuroraAvenue_ welcomes lopta
<ali1234> hmm i don't think i'll be doing any of those things
<lopta> AuroraAvenue_: I don't understand.
<AuroraAvenue_> ali1234: I don't think you'd approve of 'anything' I ever could give you even if I tried . Try helping lopta out will you ?
<ali1234> lopta: ubuntu (the desktop) is focused almost entirely on mobile and apps now
<lopta> Ah ok. That would explain Unity.
<ali1234> to this end they've written their own display server
<ali1234> their own user interface
<ali1234> and invented their own packaging system
<ali1234> none of which is compatible with other distributions
<lopta> Do people prefer Ubuntu's packaging system?
<AuroraAvenue_> It's called the Ubuntu eco-system.
<ali1234> nobody knows yet because it isn't finished
<zmoylan-pi> and if you don't like unity (i don't) you can still go with kubuntu, xubuntu, lubuntu which still gives you a good distro with a lot of support
<ali1234> there is actually a kind of preview of it in 16.04
<ali1234> this is actually their second attempt at re-inventing Mac app bundles
<ali1234> the first one, click, never went anywhere afaict
<lopta> Does Ubuntu Phone use something like Unity?
<ali1234> it uses unity
<lopta> I should google for screen shots.
<ali1234> unity 8 to be specific
<ali1234> it looks almost exactly the same as unity 7
<ali1234> okay unity8 is now installed and i logged in
<zmoylan-pi> good luck :-)
<ali1234> i just get a black screen
<ali1234> popey?
<lopta> Am I right in thinking that Unity is supposed to appeal to manufacturers of tablets and phones (and laptops?)?
<ali1234> lopta: yes
 * lopta ponders
<ali1234> ooo it did somehting
<ali1234> screensaver still works
<ali1234> well it has completely crashed
<ali1234> there's no ttys running?
<ali1234> i don't know what to do now
<ali1234> going to have to pull the battery
<lopta> ali1234: What're you testing it on?
<ali1234> a lenovo convertible
<lopta> ali1234: Does it have a keyboard?
<ali1234> yes
<lopta> (not that familiar with convertibles)
<lopta> Does Alt-F2 bring anything up?
<ali1234> yes. it says "/dev/sda1: clean, ....."
<ali1234> there are not ttys though
<lopta> That's Alt-F2 and not Ctrl+Alt+F2 ?
<ali1234> oh sorry. alt-f2 does nothing at all
<lopta> Ah, ok.
<ali1234> (as you would expect)
<lopta> What does Ctrl-Alt-Backspace do?
<ali1234> nothing
<lopta> Oh, so much for that theory then.
<ali1234> ah the power button
<ali1234> that works
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8-desktop-session/+bug/1537389
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1537389 in unity8-desktop-session (Ubuntu) "The Desktop Never Loads and just stays on a black screen" [Critical,Confirmed]
<ali1234> oh i have ttys now
<lopta> Is Ubuntu popular?
<ali1234> how do you define popular?
<lopta> I suppose that's tough to measure.
<zmoylan-pi> it's #3 on distrowatch which is a crude measure http://distrowatch.com/
<lopta> zmoylan-pi: I'll take that as a "yes".
<ali1234> running ubuntu-bug... let's see what it attaches
 * lopta ponders
<Myrtti> distrowatch is whack
<lopta> Whack is a bad thing, right?
 * lopta fires up a laptop to burn a DVD
<zmoylan-pi> you can put the distro on a usb drive if you want to save yourself a dvd
<lopta> zmoylan-pi: This one's not an Ubuntu disc. Thanks for the suggestion though.
<lopta> Well, it's a disc for a distribution that is based on Ubuntu.
<popey> yo
<lopta> ...I may try an Ubuntu disc afterwards, if I get time.
<lopta> (today)
<Myrtti> lopta: well. The 'crude measure' is actually just 'how many people have looked at the page about Ubuntu on distrowatch' measure.
<lopta> Hello popey!
<ali1234> popey: unity8 is borked
<Myrtti> so it's not much of any value.
<lopta> Myrtti: That doesn't seem very scientific ;-)
<ali1234> black screen, nothing happens. any ideas where i should look?
<Myrtti> lopta: yeah, it's not.
<lopta> ali1234: Not at the screen, apparently ;-)
<ali1234> apparently
<ali1234> i ran "ubuntu-bug unity8-desktop-session-mir" to see if it would attach anything useful, it did not
<lopta> Is Mir lighter than X?
<ali1234> there are no relevant errors on dmesg or syslog either
<ali1234> lopta: probably... anything is lighter than X
<lopta> ali1234: I'm surprised by that.
<lopta> ali1234: Faster too?
<ali1234> theoretically
<ali1234> it's kind of hard to say when you just get a black screen
<zmoylan-pi> but a fast black screen using little ram... :-P
<ali1234> the display server is not usually the limiting factor if you have decent hardware
<ali1234> unless you are playing a game
<lopta> ali1234: Is this the first Ubuntu that included Mir, or used it by default?
<ali1234> it does not use it by default
<lopta> ali1234: Did you choose to try it?
<ali1234> and the unity 8 preview has been available since 14.04
<popey> ali1234:  which video card?
<ali1234> some kind of intel
<popey> hm
<ali1234> Atom D4xx/D5xx/N4xx/N5xx Integrated
<popey> I'd be inclined to ubuntu-bug unity8 or mir
<popey> look in ~/.cache/upstart
<lopta> ali1234: Don't use have the PowerVR GPU in them?
<popey> unity8 log and unity8-dash log
<ali1234> hmm there's some crashes in there
<lopta> If it's what I think it is, it's not intel graphics, even though it's on an Intel die.
<popey> that is also plausible
<popey> ew poulsbo
<ali1234> it's not poulsbo
<popey> ok
<ali1234> hang on i'll find out exactly what it is
<lopta> Cedarview?
<ali1234> it's this, but that's not very helpful: http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/catalog/component/pci/8086%3Aa011/
<ali1234> apparently it is i915
<ali1234> supports opengl 1.5, no ES
<ali1234> another bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1536662
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1536662 in mir (Ubuntu) "[regression] Black screen: Mir hangs and then crashes on startup/login due to reading from /dev/random" [Critical,Triaged]
<ali1234> "Before logging in, move the mouse around lots, for at least 20 seconds." hehehe
<popey> :)
<ali1234> says its fixed
<ali1234> i think my graphics is pineview
<lopta> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Atom_microprocessors#.22Cedarview.22_.2832_nm.29
<lopta> Pineview should be Dxxx rather than Dxxxx, iirc.
<popey> fix committed, not released
<ali1234> my CPU is N455
<popey> so not in the archive?
<ali1234> hmm possibly
<lopta> Ah, that's Pineview then I think. I'll check.
<lopta> Great, that's Intel graphics then.
<ali1234> hmm let me reboot, wipe the logs, and try again
<ali1234> aww i forgot to move the mouse around
<lopta> I have to go home now.
<ali1234> excessive mouse motion didn't help
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15973611/
<ali1234> hmm let's try ubuntu-bug unity8 since i have a crash file for it
<ali1234> so te weird thing is i have a core dump that says unity8 exited with sigabort
<ali1234> but it's still running
<ali1234> maybe it is out of date
<ali1234> hmm bamfdaemon is crashing
<ali1234> but again, it's still running
<popey> bamfdaemon isn't used in unity8
<ali1234> yeah it appears to be crashing because there is not X11 available
<popey> ah
<ali1234> so i guess that is not related
<popey> are you logging out and logging in with unity8 session?
<ali1234> no
<popey> ah
<popey> do that :)
<ali1234> i am selecting unity8 at the greeter
<popey> oh, same thing
<ali1234> i am not logging out, i don't have autologin set up. i thought thats what you meant
<popey> oh
<popey> i dont think we test side by side
<popey> bet it works if you logout
<ali1234> no no
<ali1234> you don't understand
<ali1234> i am not logging out because i am not logging in
<ali1234> so there is nothing for me to log out of
<ali1234> i could log in, then log out, then try unity8, if you think that would help?
<ali1234> i do this: reboot -> select unity8 at greeter -> log in to unity8
<ali1234> i have only logged in to unity7 once in order to install unity8
<popey> oh
<popey> sorry, thats what I meant
<popey> only one session
<popey> yeah, file a bug :)
<ali1234> against unity8?
<ali1234> i already filed one against unity8-desktop-session
<ali1234> but apport didn't collect anything useful
<ali1234> ah, i think i can apport-collect more useful information
<ali1234> on the existing bug
<ali1234> hmm that didn't work
<popey> yeah, against unity8
<ali1234> okay it still didn't attach the unity8.log
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8-desktop-session/+bug/1573253
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1573292 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1573253 Black screen after greeter." [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> wait no
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1573292 that one
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1573292 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Black screen after greeter." [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> hmm i should have read that other bug all the way to the end
<ali1234> pineview isnt supported
<ali1234> unity 7 is pretty smooth though so thats nice
<ali1234> takes forever to log in though
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-22
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> watched dirty grandpa..retty funny
<mapps> pretty
<knightwise> morning peeps
<highbury> hmmm. tried using the advanced partitioning option whilst installing a new VirtualBox guest. The advanced partition options is displayed, but nothing seems to be changeable
<knightwise> Comin to you livvvvvvvvvvve from my own digitalocean droplet !
<davmor2> Man this year just gets suckier now Prince :(
<diplo> Had enough of hearing about him, not in here too :(
<bashrc> meh
 * SuperMatt is back to using Ubuntu on his desktop machines
 * popey is back to using Ubuntu on his desktop
<popey> (as I have since 2004 :) )
<SuperMatt> I had a brief stint with Fedora
<davmor2> SuperMatt: isn't it nice to be back home :)
<SuperMatt> And the reason why is silly - at my last job, the machines weren't all that powerful, so gnome was the best DE for me, and Fedora had the most up to date version of gnome
<popey> Ubuntu MATE is quite nice for low end machines
<popey> I have it on a 10 year old Thinkpad T43 here :)
<SuperMatt> yeah, but it didn't work the way I liked
<popey> ahh
<diplo> Also using Mate on an old Dell optiplex
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> any of you know where they hid the plugins folder in tt-rss ?
 * brobostigon uses owncloud for rss.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Earth Day! ð  ð
<SuperMatt> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/143208806219/switching-to-the-bleeding-edge-version
<SuperMatt> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> ð SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: the obvious one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAi3VTSdTxU
<Mazda> Hello guys i have " Error reading from remote server" when i'm trying to get http://192.168.5.120/SOGo from browser, there is my /etc/apache2/conf.d/SOGo.conf http://pastebin.com/LqSkzhKZ
<foobarry> trying out unity8
<foobarry> something bad happened
<foobarry> anyone got it working with virtualbox?
<popey> it doesn't work in vbox
<foobarry> vbox issue?
<foobarry> assume so.
<popey> mir
<popey> only works on free drivers right now
<DJones> You should expect to encounter bugs (and possibly performance issues, doubly-true if your device uses AMD graphics? http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1496?
<DJones> Grr, wrong paste
<DJones> popey: Is this the official codename http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1496?
<foobarry> unified messaging app? http://www.meetfranz.com/#download
<popey> DJones: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/yakkety/
<DJones> I guess thats a Yak then
<popey> :)
<zmoylan-pi> at least theirs a song...
<knightwise> I just considered :
<knightwise> For the price of a raspberry pi , you can have a vm on digital ocean for an entire year
<popey> can't plug a webcam into it though.
<popey> or plug it into a telly :)
<Mazda> Hello guys i have " Error reading from remote server" when i'm trying to get http://192.168.5.120/SOGo from browser, there is my /etc/apache2/conf.d/SOGo.conf http://pastebin.com/LqSkzhKZ
<knightwise> dkjd
<knightwise> oops sowwt$
<foobarry> and a raspbi lasts more than a year
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> omg. 16.10 is called...
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/-cHB3Rbz1OI
<daftykins> :D
<brmbrmcar> It needs renaming!
<diddledan> not gonna happen
<daftykins> i'm typing from the new desktop at last \o/
<diddledan> ooh, you finished building it?!
<daftykins> yep got the case from Germany yesterday a.m.
<diddledan> nice
<daftykins> postie said "i am so glad you're home" as he puffed and panted from carrying it up my hill
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> posties can be awesome people
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xkbx3vbk4wu3e3w/IMG_20160421_223946.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> he's pretty cool that one yeah :D sounds northern
<daftykins> which isn't hard down here granted, but northern for England ;)
<diddledan> that's a tidy case
<diddledan> I went budget on my last one - there's zero cable-management
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> this thing has a good 30mm gap behind the mobo tray to stuff things, very handy
<daftykins> *barely* got the ATX power top left from the PSU up to the corner there XD
<daftykins> first time i've put together a desktop with no sign of an optical
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> no smudged-disk (blurry)?
<daftykins> i wouldn't have any reason to use them in a PC to be honest
<daftykins> i've used my xbox one as a player the rare times i've given my discs a spin :D
<foobarry> any easlsticsearch ppl in here?
<diddledan> foobarry: I have one set-up but haven't actually got around to playing yet
<foobarry> :(
<foobarry> i have unassigned shards that i need to dispose of
<daftykins> no fly tipping!
<daftykins> https://thestack.com/world/2016/04/21/sites-that-block-adblockers-seem-to-be-suffering/
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> http://techblo.gg/stuff/controller1.jpg http://techblo.gg/stuff/controller2.jpg
<daftykins> nothing to it and yet it doesn't work right! D:
<diddledan> biggest complaint over ubuntu-on-windows so far has been impersonating root instead of an unprivileged user in the linux environment (note that being root doesn't mean you can do root-level stuff to your host)
<diddledan> so you can run in windows the command "lxrun /setdefaultuser myuberuseraccount"
<diddledan> you can now*
<ali1234> that seems like a silly complaint
<diddledan> yeah especially as su works
<ali1234> it is effectively a private chroot
<diddledan> indeed
<ali1234> my biggest complaint is how much stuff doesn't work in it
<diddledan> it's not like the root user in ubuntu could do admin stuff to windows which would be a way of elevating if that were the case
<diddledan> haha. listening to the ubuntu podcast - new sport of extreme presentations sounds fun
<diddledan> rm -rf / and then start presenting for e.g.
<knightwise> hey diddledan :) What episode ?
<diddledan> knightwise: s09e08
<knightwise> ah :) Gotta check that one out
<diddledan> it only went live yesterday, so you're not too tardy :-p
<knightwise> I have podget grepping the feeds at home
<diddledan> I use the web thingy called pocketcasts
<knightwise> diddledan: a web based aggregator ?
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> https://play.pocketcasts.com
<knightwise> oooh , sync casts across devices ?
<knightwise> but does it download them or stream them ?
<diddledan> when you use their website it streams. they have apps for ios and android though which I believe lets you do both stream or download
<knightwise> diddledan: i'm interested !
<knightwise> been looking for a solution to "pickup where i left off"
<diddledan> it's not terribly expensive - each platform requires a one-off payment to acquire access, so that means I paid for the ios app and the website separately
<knightwise> ok , that sounds fair
<diddledan> I'm impressed that in over a year they've never requested any further payment than the original
<knightwise> yep , I know what you mean
<knightwise> just moved all my feeds out of feedly because their ifttt integration is now a payed service
<diddledan> I have no idea how they can keep their site online without subscriptions
<knightwise> Now running my own tt-rss server
<AuroraAvenue_> off to bed, night all.
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> do we need to know that considering AuroraAvenue_ hasn't uttered anything for several hours (i.e. I've not seen anything since I opened the window)
<brmbrmcar> Early :)
 * diddledan pretends to be in a brmbrmcar and honks his horn
<brmbrmcar> :D
<diddledan> "what a moron driver!" reply: "honk your lights at him!" reply 2: "or flash your horn!"
<brmbrmcar> I am scared of the horn irrationally.
<ben_xyzzy> how do I make the system default text size smaller in Xenial? It's a bit of a Fisher-Price OS ATM
<deadlock> Hey, all! When I try to experiment the live media without installation, it happens. http://imgur.com/BYgw7Ll Anyone knows how to solve it?
<ali1234> i don't know how to solve it. the problem is your amd graphics card
<deadlock> ali1234, i understand. But until version 15.10 I had no problem. You think that it will be solved?
<ali1234> probably not
<ali1234> amd will release a new series of graphics cards and drop support for the old ones
<ali1234> the new ones will have a different set of bugs
<diddledan> aren't AMD graphics cards effectively unsupported in 16.04 right now?
<ali1234> no idea
<diddledan> I heard the drivers were a mess for this iteration
<ali1234> they have always been a mess though
<diddledan> moreso :-p
<ali1234> i haven't heard anything specific
<diddledan> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/03/ubuntu-drops-amd-catalyst-fglrx-driver-16-04
<diddledan> that's what I read I think
<ali1234> catalyst was never installed by default anyway
<ali1234> so that's unlikely to be the problem here
<diddledan> yeah I realised when I just googled that it's only the fglrx
<deadlock> My driver is compatible with new Crimson driver. Crimson will not supported on new Ubuntu versions?
<ali1234> never even heard of that
<diddledan> me either
<deadlock> ali1234, diddledan, thank you, guys. I will to search more about it.
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-23
<Azelphur> Anyone here know much about sslh? trying to get transparent working and having no luck
<diddledan> what I'm currently messing with:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/m6qEm1du/
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> that's the right response :-p
<daftykins> is it gonna be a help site?
<diddledan> that's probably a good idea to add in addition
<diddledan> right now it's the barebones of release tracking
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> wouldn't the # give away when a release came out though :D
<diddledan> well.. yes.. but that's only to the month
<daftykins> true, not to the second
 * daftykins suggests microseconds
<daftykins> >:D
<diddledan> :-p
<mapps> hi
<daftykins> mornin'
<daftykins> what's new?
<diddledan> so, I think I have almost every iteration of microsoft's operating systems since dos3.2
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> I just found dos 4 and dos 5
<diddledan> so that completes dos 3 thru 6
<diddledan> and I've got win3.11, win95, win98, winme, win2k, winxp, winvista, win8 and win10 (missing win7!)
<daftykins> 98SE!
<daftykins> 95 OSR2!
<daftykins> ;)
<mapps> de nada
<mapps> ive gotta go morrisons..ddnt have tie yesterday and have no food
<mapps> grmpf
<mapps> going to slovaikia in 2 months yay
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> what'd you need a tie for?
<mapps> time i meant
<mapps> typo
<daftykins> aww that's far less interesting :D
<daftykins> so how's life down south?
<mapps> all good, slight pain its hard work ordering stuff to here
<mapps> but i get by
<mapps> goiing to err campino del rey in a few weeks
<daftykins> you need yourself an electronics mule
<daftykins> ah har
<mapps> heh
<diddledan> is that someone who shoves a new laptop up their jacksee?
<mapps> camino del rey looks cool u seen it?
<daftykins> no sir-ee
<mapps> google it;)
<daftykins> i've got another Malaga fly through trip planned for June but it's work only again so 2 days =|
<diddledan> :-(
<daftykins> if i had a license i could probably go for longer but eh
<diddledan> work travel sucks
<daftykins> on the plus side i can use it as a holiday home myself in future i think
<diddledan> \o/
<mapps> why do u need a license
<mapps> did u check it..it looks cool
<diddledan> plus if you can you'll be living like royalty the amount he's decked that place out
<daftykins> did i tell you they'd laid like 5m^2 of tiles in the lounge before he visited and said they were the wrong direction, so had to start over? :D
<diddledan> wha?! wrong direction tiles?!!!
<daftykins> tip
<diddledan> the horror!
<mapps> hm
<daftykins> i asked him about it
<mapps> so why license
<daftykins> apparently it's like stripes vs. bands on fat people
<mapps> taxi or bus everywhere
<diddledan> so his room looked overweight?
<daftykins> yeah i could try speaking to other folks i guess :>
<daftykins> diddledan: yep
<daftykins> or too skinny
<daftykins> i think too skinny
<diddledan> I like big butts and I cannot lie
<mapps> hm
<daftykins> most other brothers cannot deny
<daftykins> when a tile is laid...
<daftykins> yeah.
<daftykins> diddlekins, performing at a club near you
<daftykins> actually that name sounds really really wrong
<AuroraAvenue_> Morning.
<daftykins> \o
<AuroraAvenue_> nephew in town from Holland this morning. Racketball first.
<daftykins> Tennis o0
<AuroraAvenue_> daftykins: Not quite, it's on a squash court.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<brmbrmcar> Morning.
<brobostigon> morning brmbrmcar
<brmbrmcar> :)
<diddledan> beep beep
<brobostigon> meep meep
<brmbrmcar> beep meeep
<foobarry> mooo
<ali1234> bug 1574018
<lubotu3> bug 1574018 in linux (Ubuntu) "Atheros AR9285 wifi does not work after warm boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574018
<penguin42> does anyone know any ex-ferranti people around Bracknell?
<SparkySergal> nickserv identify intoterlod
<SparkySergal> hi, whats the best audio drivers for ubuntu? I have pulse as default but it's not great quallity and not all apps like to find the microphone
<daftykins> hehe, audio drivers
<Nokaji> So is it out yet?
<daftykins> here's a tip, we're past the release date
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-24
<ali1234> just got this nonsense: http://paste.ubuntu.com/16018011/
<daftykins> ooh-err
<penguin42> that should NOT happen
<ali1234> it might be bad ram. i already lost one stick from this machine
<daftykins> i was about to hazard a query as to whether it's stable
<ali1234> also apparently my SSD is running at 113 C
<daftykins> haha, what's reading that?
<penguin42> and wth have you got the fjes module loaded
<ali1234> whats fjes
<penguin42> oh, I've got fjes loaded as well
<penguin42> ali1234: As far as I can tell a driver for some very obscure Fujitsu hardware
<daftykins> wouldn't hurt to run a memtest86+ pass?
<ali1234> Apr 24 01:21:59 al-desktop smartd[923]: Device: /dev/sdb [SAT], SMART Usage Attribute: 194 Temperature_Celsius changed from 115 to 116
<ali1234> oh wait that's sdb, a hdd
<penguin42> still rather toasty
<ali1234> pretty sure i'd be able to smell the label burning if that was true
<daftykins> smartctl concur?
<ali1234> 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   117   105   000    Old_age   Always       -       35
<penguin42> the 'raw' value in smart data tend to be a bit weird
<ali1234> the raw value is 35
<penguin42> hmm
<ali1234> 117 is the "value"
<daftykins> it's always like that in my experience
<ali1234> http://cdn2.funscrape.com/Images/3/3791892598683728.jpg
<daftykins> ah memtest it and walk away :D
<mapps> hi all
<directhex> anyone upgraded to 16.04 and having issues with starting unity3d games?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<brmbrmcar> Morning.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon , how are you doing
<brobostigon> not bad, and you?
<knightwise> fixing up some ifttt scritps and some Spreadsheet magic for the companies rss feed
<brobostigon> :)
<riyasmp> guys. can any one tell me if thts possible to make a multi session (data) dvd like with the CDs on ubunut?
<DJones> riyasmp: This forum thread suggests its possible http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1586517
<riyasmp> DJones, thanks. no useful fix in that thread. looks like dates back to 2010 .
<penguin42> who knew it; there's apparently a UK-Belgium interconnect for gas
<brobostigon> how do i speed up qemu, or is there a faster method?
<penguin42> brobostigon: What are you doing with it?
<penguin42> brobostigon: and how are you running it?
<brobostigon> qemu-system-x86_64 haiku.img
<brobostigon> trying to test a haiku image, on my new computr,
<penguin42> oh ok, yeh that will be slow as hell with no options
<penguin42> brobostigon: -M pc,accel=kvm -m 1024M -smp 2
<penguin42> brobostigon: i.e. turn on KVM, give it 1GB of RAM and 2 vCPUs
<brobostigon> ok, ty.
<penguin42> brobostigon: better?
<brobostigon> i am just compiling an updated image.
<brobostigon> build failiure, :(
 * penguin42 hands brobostigon a type 5 build encouragement hammer
 * brobostigon thanks penguin42, and starts bashing with the hammer.
<brobostigon> qemu-system-x86_64 -M pc,accel=kvm -m 1024M -smp 2 haiku-nightly-anyboot.image
<brobostigon> Could not access KVM kernel module: No such file or directory
<brobostigon> failed to initialize KVM: No such file or directory
<penguin42> brobostigon: ls -l /dev/kvm
<brobostigon> ls -l /dev/kvm
<brobostigon> ls: cannot access '/dev/kvm': No such file or directory
<penguin42> brobostigon: intel or amd ?
<brobostigon> intel
<penguin42> brobostigon: You've probably got it switched off in the bios - what does  sudo modprobe kvm_intel   say ?
<brobostigon> modprobe: ERROR: could not insert 'kvm_intel': Operation not supported
<penguin42> brobostigon: ok, exactly which CPU do you have?
<brobostigon> ok, let me check, next i reboot.
<brobostigon> moment.
<brobostigon> lshw is quite detailed, how much cpu detail do oyu want?
<penguin42> brobostigon: The model name line from /proc/cpuinfo
<brobostigon> ok,
<brobostigon> model name      : Genuine Intel(R) CPU           U7300  @ 1.30GHz
<penguin42> http://ark.intel.com/products/42791/Intel-Core2-Duo-Processor-SU7300-3M-Cache-1_30-GHz-800-MHz-FSB?q=u7300  suggests it does have VT - so check the BIOS
<brobostigon> ok, thank you.
<brobostigon> let me reboot, and see what i can find.
<Azelphur> Hmm, tempting, I told three I was leaving because they are upping my bill
<Azelphur> they offered me unlimited minutes/texts and 30GB data (+tethering) for Â£20/mo 12 month contract
<Azelphur> told them I don't like the 12 month contract so he's gonna see if he can waive it :P
<brobostigon> penguin42: found the switch in the bios.
<penguin42> good luck :-)
<penguin42> oh that good luck was for Azelphur but brobostigon can have some of it as well :-)
<knightwise> Logstalia = Cool !
<brobostigon> penguin42: thank you, :)
<diddledan> kvm-ok is a useful utility to determine what's wrong with kvm
<brobostigon> yes good luck Azelphur
<brobostigon> ty diddledan
<Azelphur> no waive, but they said they'll give me Â£12/mo unlimited minutes, texts and 4GB Data +Tethering, not so bad I guess.
<brobostigon> oh well.
<diddledan> knightwise: logstalia?
<diddledan> knightwise: this: http://logstalgia.io/?
<knightwise> indeed :)
<knightwise> running it live on my server on digitalocean :)
<knightwise> purdy sweet to see packets go back and forth
<diddledan> I wonder what it'ld be like on cloudflare's logs? there's a nice talk here about a 300Gb/s DDoS they survived: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w04ZAXftQ_Y
<knightwise> you can find a video on the DDos they did on the vLC servers captured by Logtastic
<knightwise> sorry , logstalgia
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> does anyone use N1 email client thingy?
<diddledan> wondering what folk make of it
<popey> dont like the idea of the mail being on their server
<penguin42> popey: how did that intel graphics thing get nailed in the end?
<diddledan> this is a fun one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-software/+bug/1573206
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1573206 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "GNOME Software does not install third-party .deb packages" [High,Confirmed]
<daftykins> oof, that's a shocker
<diddledan> morning
<daftykins> \o
<oldspice> hello
 * daftykins holds his nose
<diddledan> I've got no nose
<daftykins> and no strings either!
<diddledan> bloomin terrible!
<diddledan> oh, you didn't reply right
<daftykins> i didn't?
<diddledan> you're supposed to question my smell
<diddledan> "I've got no nose...." "really? how do you smell?" "bloomin aweful"
<diddledan> awful*
<daftykins> aaah
<daftykins> that old chestnut
<diddledan84> I wonder why it has chosen 84 as a random number?
<daftykins> when you're, eighty-four ~
<diddledan_> will you still feed me, will you still beat me?
<diddledan_> I love this snippet from Lenny Henry: https://youtu.be/M_pwt9_AgbA
<diddledan_> hmm, no timecode
<diddledan_> lemme get a better link
<diddledan_> https://youtu.be/M_pwt9_AgbA?t=429
<diddledan_> same video, just fast-forwarded to the bit I like
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> wonky aspect ;/
<diddledan_> speaking of fast-forwarding.. don't you hate when you get a DVD or blurry out to put on the telly and find it's not been rewound to the beginning?
<daftykins> ah every time!
<daftykins> i pop the lid off the player and act like a DJ
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> I tried that.. with the plastic disc off the top of a stack of blank discs.. turns out eyes and laser-beams don't mix well
<diddledan_> the clear plastic disc off the top*
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> refracting to harm the entire room
<diddledan_> discoball would be useful there
<oldspice> ola, anyone around?
<oldspice> ?
<agoodm> ye
<diddledan_> nay
<oldspice> ?
<agoodm> im here :P
<oldspice> I wonder if anyone can help with a bluetooth speaker?
<agoodm> perhaps i can
<oldspice> it worked fine, then I installed 16.04. I didnt much like unity so removed it and installed gnome3 but now the speaker sounds awful. it has 2 modes. it can either be just a speaker, and sound good, or it can be a headset and act as a mic, in that mode it sounds terrible. I have both options but it just sounds terrible.
<agoodm> oldspice did you upgrade or fresh install?
<oldspice> I did a fresh install
<daftykins> what were you on before?
<oldspice> 15.10
<oldspice> I had been dual booting win 8.1 but i took the opportunity of a lts release to do away with win
<daftykins> shame, bet this device worked there ;)
<oldspice> True, but the impotence of windows to do anything interesting. or be trusted...
<daftykins> this isn't the place for tinfoil hattery
<daftykins> so, strikes me that you either install actual ubuntu-gnome from the ground up, go back, or wait
<agoodm> personally im putting up with 15.10 while i wait for third party software folks to catch up
<oldspice> could it be that 15.10 is just better?
<daftykins> no, older is never better
<oldspice> I installed it after reading that it had done away with the lenses and amazon plug ins
<daftykins> oh dear you read into that stuff?
<oldspice> I still had amazon rubbish
<oldspice> I'm not paranoid. I just don't want to share my searches with amazon.
<oldspice> or anyone else.
<daftykins> right but that feature is off by default and controllable
<oldspice> is it?
<daftykins> hmm, tad amusing when you speak ill of another OS but don't know the situation with what you claim is better
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-17
<LorJSR> list
<LorJSR> Welp
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<m0nkey_> daftykins: I had a response from Louis on reddit :) https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/65rnwk/apple_uses_spite_to_force_planned_obsolescence/dgcyflo/
<ali1234> i mean he's right, it's a really boring video
<ali1234> and i like watching electronics repair videos
<ali1234> also he doesn't even do a good repair job lol
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/853987219241095168
<diddledan> how do I report someone on launchpad for spamming?
<diddledan> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vsftpd/+bug/1160372 (see the last two comments)
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1160372 in openSUSE "Login is not possible" [High,Fix released]
<penguin42> diddledan: You can ask on #launchpad  and I think the other thing is to do an ask-a-question of the launchpad team
<diddledan> danke
<thudkol> Hi. With many Ubuntu installations across many machines I've noticed that trying to change video driver to nvidia in Additional Drivers often fails with no error messages. It simply reverts to xorg driver with no comment. Any idea how I can find out why?
<thudkol> Here's syslog, though again, no errors: https://paste.ubuntu.com/24402080/ are there other logs I could be looking in?
<daftykins> m0nkey_: XD
<daftykins> ali1234: what's bad about it?
<ali1234> instead of properly repairing the pad he just soldered a bit of wire under the chip
<daftykins> i suspect it's a time-result trade-off
<ali1234> i mean sure it works but all the people saying "wow amazing job" in the comments have absolutely no idea what they are talking about
<ali1234> doing it properly wouldn't take that much longer
<ali1234> the only difference is you have to wait 12 hours for the epoxy to cure but its not like you have to sit and stare at it while that happens
<daftykins> hmm, never seen a missing pad resolved
<ali1234> search "lifted smd pad repair" on youtube, there's loads of videos
<daftykins> ah well if he did that and the issue ended up being a dead PCH or CPU anyway, then that'd be a waste
<ali1234> then you replace the chip too
<daftykins> neither are viable
<penguin42> heck, never tried replacing a pad
<daftykins> i mean i watch his videos a lot and i'm totally new to it, but there must be a reason he does it the way he does...
<ali1234> cos its cheap and easy
<ali1234> this is how you do it properly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx50YtEC2S8
<ali1234> there's nothing wrong with doing it the lazy way, i mean i've done it myself
<ali1234> i wouldn't pay someone $350 to do that though
<daftykins> yeah, in other videos he explains that sure, if he weren't right in the centre of Manhattan the prices he charges wouldn't be so high
<daftykins> often he knows that Apple ask customers for upwards of $700 for a full out motherboard swap too, so just undercuts it
<ali1234> yep. but he's not doing a good job
<ali1234> just a passable one
<ali1234> sure, apple will give the customer a new board, but they won't just landfill the old one. it will get repaired and then given to some other customer
<ali1234> they do that for efficiency, not in order to sell more motherboards
<zmoylan-pi> i see so many people going around with phones with cracked screens that i don't think people care about quality anymore
<daftykins> only if it's a given age model - but yeah they ship them back to China for repair
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i think they just don't care about their possessions ;) careless idiots
<ali1234> they can swap the motherboard in minutes, and then take the ~48 hours needed to do the repair job properly
<daftykins> of course there's the angle that the premium devices are more prone to screen shatter when dropped too
<daftykins> ali1234: Apple don't do that though :) that's the crime
<ali1234> of course they do
<daftykins> not in-house in the US, no
<ali1234> no, they ship the board to china and ship the reconditioned ones back
<ali1234> but customer won't want to wait for that
<daftykins> yip, with a customer getting a blank refurb
<daftykins> "oh, you mean you don't pay us for iCloud services so all your data is stored with is and restorable?"
<daftykins> s/is/us/
<zmoylan-pi> apple with their cash hoard could build a mini hyperloop to send sick phones to china for motherboard swap and have them back a few hours later... :-P
<ali1234> mini?
<ali1234> all the way to china is mini?
<zmoylan-pi> narrow gauge so won't transport humans so to speak...
<ali1234> oh i see, just big enough for devices
<zmoylan-pi> think futurama transport tubes...
<diddledan> a succubus: http://www.starshiptitanic.com/game/succubus.html
<ali1234> or like the original pneumatic tube systems that inspired hyperloop
<zmoylan-pi> there's still a few of those still around...
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of supermarkets now have them for cash deposits that seem to be a new use of them
<penguin42> is it that new?
<zmoylan-pi> well new supermarkets installing them after years of not using them so i'm thinking someone is flogging them new now
<zmoylan-pi> a quick search turns up a lot of competing systems..
<daftykins> o0
<zmoylan-pi> on plus side unhappy customers who want to complain and set up companynamesucks.com domains to complain might not do as well as they hoped... :-P
<diddledan> diddledansucks.com
<diddledan> one of you probably have that already?
 * daftykins whistles
<lopta> Did Ubuntu abandon i386?
<lopta> I'm wondering whether I need to dig out my amd64 test rig.
<lopta> Think I found the answer.
<daftykins> 32-bit got the chop at some point i think, not sure if it's past or future
<ali1234> the archive is still built for i386
<ali1234> you might need to use the alternate iso to install it though
<daftykins> then you might still get PAE issues
<ali1234> that's purely down to what kernel you decide to install
<ali1234> ie it's easily fixed
<daftykins> if you're fighting to keep using 32-bit machines, it's time to reevaluate life :)
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> unless you're on arm
<ali1234> but that's a whole different can of worms
 * hamitron is currently struggling with 256MB ram on his server
<razian_> Hello !
<daftykins> \o
<zmoylan-pi> i'll have you know daftykins that i intend at some point to get an 8bit cpm machine up and going :-)
<daftykins> hamitron: oof even my irssi only VM is up to 384MB now due to newer and newer releases :)
<hamitron> I'm considering upgrading to 4GB
<razian_> Hi, I have a problem with xubuntu setup, can anyone help me please ? :)
<ali1234> i think you can install cp/m on an arduino
<daftykins> razian_: ask away, with detail, on one line
<hamitron> I got the memory sat on my desk now... just can't risk having downtime at this time of the week
<zmoylan-pi> there seems to be 1-2 z80 based systems still been built for cpm enthusiasts/masochists...
<ali1234> https://hackaday.io/project/19560-z80-cpm-computer-using-an-arduino
<lopta> CP/M!
<zmoylan-pi> i think the arduino is way over powered for cpm :-D
<lopta> I miss CP/M.
<ali1234> back when s1mp3 was popular we briefly entertained the idea of running cp/m on them
<ali1234> 8 bit avr is pretty close to the original machines that ran cp/m actually
<zmoylan-pi> i remember we got a cp/m system in our office to transfer the data from it to our pc based crm accounts system.  it had better sound capabilities than pcs built 10+ years after it and played midi files
<zmoylan-pi> but no serial port so we had to export the data via lpt -> rs232 using an interfaker... https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6069/6074303957_8d92001eb8_z.jpg
<lopta> zmoylan-pi: Couldn't do PLIP?
<zmoylan-pi> the data was locked up in propietary software so options were parallel or nowt
<lopta> Ah, I understand.
<lopta> "Pretend I'm a daisywheel printer..." ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> that's the puppy :-)
<razian_> When installing xubuntu, a message appears saying that grub2 can not be installed and that the installation will stop. I do not have any operating system (windows was crushed during installation), I just have a usb to install xuubuntu and am currently on the test session of xubuntu
<ali1234> razian_: modern computer with uefi?
<zmoylan-pi> is secure boot on/off?
<razian_> Yes
<ali1234> uefi / secure boot requires a FAT partition to store boot files
<ali1234> did you delete that, when you deleted windows?
<ali1234> if so you will need to recreate it
<lopta> Does ubuntu-17.04-desktop-i386.iso only work from a CD or can I use dd to dump it onto a USB flash stick?
<lopta> (and expect it to boot)?
<ali1234> lopta: you can dd it to a flash disk
<ali1234> it will boot
<razian_> Hmm, yes I think
<ali1234> all major distros support hybrid iso at this point
<ali1234> even for uefi
<lopta> Thanks
<lopta> ali1234: I don't use Linux much.
<ali1234> i think even windows can do it at this point :)
<lopta> I don't use Windows much ;-)
<lopta> brb
 * zmoylan-pi hands out the pitchforks and torches to deal with the os/2 user :-P
<lopta> CP/M > OS/2 ;-)
<lopta> I have to go now.
<razian_> ali1234 : Should I create a FAT partition to have a good installation?
<ali1234> "my home planet needs me"
<ali1234> razian_: i'm just looking up the documentation
<razian_> Thanks
<ali1234> can you open a terminal and run "sudo fdisk -l | pastebinit"
<razian_> Yes
<ali1234> if it says pastebinit not found then "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install pastebinit"
<ali1234> this will upload information abut your partitions (just the sizes and whatever) and give you a link
<ali1234> paste the link here
<razian_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24403368/
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> thats an interesting collection of disks
<ali1234> which one did you install on?
<razian_> On my SSD (sda), I want my /home on sdc and keep my sdb data
<ali1234> i see. and indeed you don't have any uefi partition on sda
<razian_> No
<ali1234> if sdb has precious data on it, i would unplug it while trying to get this working
<ali1234> just as a precaution
<razian_> "precious"... just my windows games, if it will be delete it's not a real problem. my precious datas are in my external hard drive
<ali1234> okay well that's up to you
<ali1234> i'm reading the docs and i get the impression that the install should create the uefi partition if it doesn't exist
<ali1234> however, maybe it doesn't depending on what install method you choose
<ali1234> you can also do it manually
<razian_> I use the manual install method, cause i want the /home on sdc
<daftykins> it does, but razian_ has booted in EFI mode and the installer is playing it safe with wiping the disks
<ali1234> that could be why
<daftykins> one of the drives needs to have the first sectors zero'd then it'll intall.
<ali1234> arch wiki has some docs on how to make the boot partition manually: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/EFI_System_Partition
<daftykins> *install
<daftykins> nah manual would just be more work than it's worth
<ali1234> yep that will probably work too delete the whole partition table, not just the partitions
<daftykins> razian_: do any of those 3 disks have data you need to keep?
<razian_> I'l prefer to keep sdb's datas, but it's not really important
<ali1234> as i said, just unplug it... the installer doesn't need to know about data drives anyway. actually even separate /home is very easy to do post-install
<daftykins> ^ shutdown, unplug sdb and sdc and come back with just sda plugged in
<daftykins> i know you want home elsewhere but you can worry about that later
<razian_> Okay nice
<razian_> Thanks you ! :D
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-18
<daftykins> and then they never returned...
<SuperMatt> morning
<TwistedLucidity> o/
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> what's new?
<MooDoo> not a lot, been playing about with game recording on my laptop.
<SuperMatt> I've never understood people that spend mroe time watching other people play games than playing themselves
<SuperMatt> although it's not different to watching football matches
<TwistedLucidity> SuperMatt: I totally get it. I don't have time to play games, but I have 5-10mins to watch someone's edited video of them playing.
<SuperMatt> makes sense, I guess
<TwistedLucidity> Escpecially when said watching is in the background of whatever it is I'm doing.
<MooDoo> I just like to play the odd game now and again, if someone else can get enjoyment from watching how bad I am, then fair does lol
<SuperMatt> Only game I've considered worthwhile playing recently is Doom
<zmoylan-pi> even in the 80s people would gather around the arcade machine of someone doing very well in some game or other
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: I'm a bit limited with the games I play at the moment, laptop isn't that good :)
<SuperMatt> But that's if someone was doing well. A lot of the stuff being uploaded is not that
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<SuperMatt> Of course, if you have limited time, OpenTTD is where it's at.
<MooDoo> wow blast from the past there SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> hardly, a new version was released only this month
<davmor2> MooDoo: from the abondedwares get dune and run it in dosbox, it's like an early command and conquer
<SuperMatt> c&c was awesome
<SuperMatt> They don't make 'em like that any more
<MooDoo> davmor2: nice :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Mon^WTuesday, and happy World Heritage Day! ð
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> ð MooDoo
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib-Qiyklq-Q got to be this :D
<acheronUK> uh oh... election
<SuperMatt> Maybe JamesTait can tell us what day June 8th would be
<JamesTait> Election day, of course. ð
<JamesTait> Jerky Day. Upsy Daisy Day. World Oceans Day.
<zmoylan-pi> d-day +2 day
<JamesTait> Best Friends Day.
<SuperMatt> Upsy Daisy Day will be the correct one
<JamesTait> Name Your Poison Day.
<zmoylan-pi> and not 'oh no, not again day'
<JamesTait> Plus what zmoylan-pi said.
<JamesTait> Jam Doughnut Day.
<JamesTait> (It actually says Jelly-filled Donut, but we know what they mean)
<zmoylan-pi> that would discriminate against diabetics unless you provide bagels as a safer option...
<TwistedLucidity> Diabetic jam is a thing, but is falls through the hole in the bagel.
<zmoylan-pi> probably for the best if it's anything like diabetic chocolate...
<davmor2> JamesTait, acheronUK, zmoylan-pi: don't worry guys I'll have you covered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnBMLG57sro
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Thorton's does good stuff apparently. G/F's mother buys loads of it when she's over to take home.
<davmor2> JamesTait: although this might be more appropriate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY
<JamesTait> Heh. âº
<acheronUK> davmor2: must had read my mind! immediately thought of that R.E.M. track
<arsen> h i see
<zmoylan-pi> pfft. floppy disk problems... :-) http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/tumblr_oohx87Hr2R1vnq1cro1_400.gif
<SuperMatt> lawls
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> that's awesome
<diddledan> what system is it though?
<diddledan> it's very bulky
<zmoylan-pi> i suspect it's a /laptop/ on a shuttle
<zmoylan-pi> probably a ruggedised one at that for extra brickiness factor
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/stef/status/854292740821176321
<Azelphur> Random question: Don't suppose anyone knows any suitcases that meet wizz airs requirments, I can find bags, but not suitcases.
<diddledan> show@ubuntupodcast.org
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> wrong link
<diddledan> https://blog.adafruit.com/2017/04/18/is-mp3-now-patent-free-makerbusiness-technicolor/
<diddledan> the zuck of myfacespacebook+ is on stage: https://www.facebook.com/FacebookforDevelopers/videos/vb.19292868552/10154613896183553/?type=3&theater
<lopta> Ah poop. I can't even test Ubuntu on my 32-bit test rig.
<daftykins> oh?
<daftykins> honestly there's no point pursuing 32-bit kit
<zmoylan-pi> murmur murmur murmur...
<daftykins> ? :)
<zmoylan-pi> I SAID RHUBARB RHUBARB RHUBARB :-P
<lopta> I don't for production use but this was more of a convenience thing.
<lopta> ...and out of interest.
<lopta> Eventually I got an error message about not having PAE and CX8 on the CPU.
<lopta> ...so that'd do it.
<daftykins> yeah i mentioned hitting the PAE wall t'other day, not sure if you were about by then though
<daftykins> honestly i dump way better kit, so single core 32-bit just nooooo :>
<lopta> These are expendable, so I keep them around.
 * zmoylan-pi pats my trusty 286 and tells it to ignore the nasty man... :-)
<lopta> If I have need of an OS/2 1.x test rig I might keep an AT around. ;-)
<lopta> Thankfully I don't.
<zmoylan-pi> i kept the 286 around for 5.25" and also programming dongles and uploading firmware/logos to receipt printers... and configuring touchscreens
<lopta> 5.25" 1200K? ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> 1.2mb... oodles of space...
<lopta> Not quite 1.2M
<zmoylan-pi> well you can overformat them...
<daftykins> cor :P
<daftykins> squeeze out a couple more KB? ;)
<zmoylan-pi> just 2-3 of those babies to store a music mp3... :-)
<daftykins> haha and here's me getting some vinyl rip FLAC that has ~80MB single tracks
<daftykins> alrighty, bed time \o
<lopta> ...and there I thought my 128M Smartmedia card was small! ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> that 286 was shipped with a 40mb hard drive which dos 3.3 partitioned as 32mb + 8mb
<lopta> Goodnight daftykins
<zmoylan-pi> thank goodness for dr-dos that allowed it to be 40mb...
<lopta> :-)
<lopta> More of a CP/M-86 man, myself.
<zmoylan-pi> we settled on dr-dos as we wanted the builtin networking... i wanted the russian dos they used on satellites...
<lopta> DR-DOS did inherit some nice features from DOSPLUS and (via that) CP/M-86
<zmoylan-pi> and the wireframe network space shooty game...
<zmoylan-pi> very handy for testing network speed :-)
<lopta> I don't remember that.
<zmoylan-pi> netwars... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMp1RrCy4w4
<lopta> Oh well. Time to fetch the children
<zmoylan-pi> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-19
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<TwistedLucidity> o/
<SuperMatt> morning
<davmor2> Who here uses a completely Vanilla Gnome, no extensions, no addons, no tweaking in any way
<brobostigon> i have done, yes. gnome-shell no addons.
<davmor2> brobostigon: I mean uses now daily as is no extensions or tweaks,  People I asks who use Fedora have both said mostly vanilla but I use x extension or tweak tool to make it work the way I want
<brobostigon> davmor2: ah i see, yes tweak tool can change some useful things to add some useful elements.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Poetry And The Creative Mind Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> their was an engineer from nantucket...
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no1vf854aUc and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WmGMdaxQLk
<JamesTait> davmor2, first one is more the kind of uplifting tune required, I think. ð
<SuperMatt> I turn on a couple of tweaks, namely legacy alt+tab, and clicking an icon in the dash always opens a new window
<SuperMatt> I sometimes change the fonts too, but that's it
<SuperMatt> it's otherwise vanilla gnome shell
<davmor2> SuperMatt: that is almost exactly what two of my redhat friends do, basically gnome vanilla but with 3-4 tweaks to make it work for them
<davmor2> but wouldn't you think it made sense to fine the commonly used tweaks and extensions and make that the default gnome based on that
<SuperMatt> Yes, I would agree with you there
<SuperMatt> problem is that because some of the addons are packaged with the distro, I don't think the extensions page can track them
<SuperMatt> unless it's sending metrics back to the server
<foobarry> vanilla gnome is for sadists
<zmoylan-pi> none of those in the linux community... :-P
<foobarry> arc theme looks quite nice
<foobarry> and minwaita looks kinda handy although you can tweak your own css settings easily
<foobarry> because title bars this size are plain broken http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Here-s-How-to-Install-the-Beautiful-Arc-GTK-plus-Flat-Theme-on-Linux-483143-2.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> see i think the title bar is fine, it's just that the tool bar should be part of it and not below it...
<foobarry> https://github.com/andreisergiu98/arc-flatabulous-theme
<foobarry> looks usable
<foobarry> i gotta see terminal windows though since i use so many
<zmoylan-pi> i am _not_ a fan of transparent terminals though
<TwistedLucidity> Black text on a black background whilst runing Suicide Linux. 100% security.
<rdanter> with a black keyboard with black labels and black led's that light up black?
<TwistedLucidity> Whilst flying into a sun on autopilot
<TwistedLucidity> "Hotblack Linux". That'd be hysterically funny. For 20 seconds.
<Azelphur> just trying to use Python on a fresh Ubuntu EC2 instance: https://dpaste.de/9eo3 ... wat
<rdanter> Hotblack Linux 1704 "Cricket" Release :)
<diddledan> Azelphur: try running python3 rather than python
<diddledan> the alternatives system should have sorted that though
<diddledan> you might have luck with dpkg-reconfigure? (that's a black box to me, though, I just know that it fixes some things I've had problems with in the past)
<diddledan> s/fixes/has fixed/
<rdanter> "python" should be python 2 and "python3" should be, well, python 3
<diddledan> silly customers! https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20170418-00/?p=95985
<daftykins> Azelphur: yeah you need to play with update-alternatives by the sounds
<daftykins> assuming the choice is to have python map to python3 by default, or whether python will always mean <3
<daftykins> heh, < 3 that is
<daftykins> although you can have a heart, too
<diddledan> <3
 * diddledan hugs
<daftykins> zomg i have a start date for my bathroom works!
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> that's unpossible!
<daftykins> 8th o' May
<diddledan> you love PHP so much you make it go places it wasn't meant for: http://www.peachpie.io/2017/04/tutorial-vs2017.html
<SuperMatt> my current favourite language is Go
<davmor2> daftykins: O'May you mean she has defected to Ireland already?
<SuperMatt> how to start a thread in go: go func() {fmt.Println("hello")}()
<foobarry> man,its like the old days on omgubuntu. joey has his mojo back!
<daftykins> davmor2: 'speaking' with a Guernsey accent there :)
<diddledan> SuperMatt: I been messing with go, too - it's quite a different way of thinking but I like it
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-20
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Volunteer Recognition Day! ð  ð
<diddledan> fun finding people's passwords at the first few minutes of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVXEwfH6FLc
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOgpT5rEKIU and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TO48Cnl66w think that covers it :D
<foobarry> uploading to imgur from firefox has broken again :(
<foobarry> has anyone seen this issue with nagios? load value axis has gone weird http://imgur.com/a/WaUcJ
<diddledan> davmor2: alanis morisette is in the nuddy!
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: That. Is. Horrify.
 * TwistedLucidity leaves the comment that's a response to deliberately ambiguous
<diddledan> aww, the blurred her naughty bits
<diddledan> they*
<TwistedLucidity> Perve.
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> as if folks expect anything sensible out of me..
<TwistedLucidity> On the subject of passwords, I still use the "CorrectHorseBatteryStaple" paradigm. Nice and long, easy to recall.
<TwistedLucidity> Not sure if that's still advised or not.
<BigRedS> i think "use a password manager and" is the normal advice now
<zmoylan-pi> dictionary attacks can process stupidly high numbers these days...
<BigRedS> ... and a ridiculous password
<diddledan> the standard method advised these days is purely random but stored in a password manager
<diddledan> BigRedS beat me
<TwistedLucidity> BigRedS: I use LastPass - but I have spotted that it struggles with string Content Security Protection on sites. Also, it can break privacy in Private tabs.
<BigRedS> but, yeah, dictionary attacking for 3-5 random dictionary words is simpler than for 8-32 alphanumerics
<BigRedS> I use pass, I distrust a password manager that my browser can talk to. But that's at the expense of half the benefit of a password manager...
<BigRedS> it's also GPG based, though, so one day I'll break that and find I can't get at any of my passwords...
<TwistedLucidity> Is it? 50k^3 < 26^8? I'd need to do the math....
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, I want to get off LastPass. Although it doesn't have any super-critical passwords (e.g. banking etc)
<BigRedS> actually, I guess random is the key; if you really are using random words then it's fine. But most people aren't
<diddledan> https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/20/mastercard-built-in-fingerprint-sensor/
<TwistedLucidity> I'm certainly not using items on my desk, otherwise all passwords would be "MessMessMess"
<knightwise> morning peeps
<zmoylan-pi> but if you buy really really cheap hardware then it would be $brandNameThatDoesntExistAnymoreFromCountryThatsBeenRenamedSinceTheirRevolution
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Fingerprints are not passwords. Fingerprints are not passwords. Fingerprints are not passwords. Fingerprints are not passwords. Fingerprints are not passwords.
<TwistedLucidity> Although they are handy for 2FA in that scenario.
<foobarry> i have a box with 6 GPU...wanna give me your hash?
<foobarry> password hash, not drugs
<knightwise> hey alan_g
<knightwise> when is the next show coming out ?
<alan_g> ?
<knightwise> srr , wrong alan :)
<diddledan> knightwise: did you mean popey ?
<knightwise> yep
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Sure, here you go - hunter2
 * diddledan logs into TwistedLucidity 's privates and fiddles with the billing to charge them lots of monies
<diddledan> hang on. that password isn't working!
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: what's your password? I think you might have changed it
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Yeah, changed it to ********
<diddledan> wait, IRC censored that. I didn't know that was a thing. What do you see when I type my password?: mybananaisbent
<TwistedLucidity> Evil, class 1 EU bananas. Not any more in the People's Glorious Republik of Maytonia!
<davmor2> Ah hunter2
<arsen> Password1234!
<arsen> is that hidden to you?
 * zmoylan-pi calls dibs on their itunes :-)
<davmor2> arsen: Password1234! yes all I see is a bunch of stars
<arsen> cool
<arsen> irc is clever like that!
<Azelphur> to be fair, I wish IRCd operators put a little patch in to stop " /msg nickserv identify" (note the space at the beginning)
<Azelphur> so many people get hit by that one :)
<zmoylan-pi> or we could teach people to do such things in a non channel window...
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<Azelphur> todays challenge: identify this laptop, https://nextcloud.azelphur.com/nextcloud/index.php/s/KbyMikwxRNF5fzn
<acheronUK> Toshiba Satellite P845T ?
<zmoylan-pi> looks more asus to me...
<davmor2> MooDoo: how do me owld mucka
<foobarry> acer/asus keyboard, toshiba screen?
<Azelphur> acheronUK: certainly looks like it, you did well :)
<foobarry> eww windows and celeron sticker.
<foobarry> made a mistake of not taking those off on the first day once and had a non-faded patch forever after removing it late
<zmoylan-pi> and offset touch pad due to numberpad so icky keyboard as well
<diddledan> laptops aren't meant to have a numberpad
<diddledan> they just ruin it
<zmoylan-pi> except for accountants
<zmoylan-pi> but they should really get an external usb keyboard for that as the internal ones aren't great
<Azelphur> good point actually, it's not a Toshiba Satellite P845T, the Toshiba Satellite P845T doesn't have a numpad
<Azelphur> close, but no cigar
<Azelphur> but using your description, looks like a P875-31P
<acheronUK> maybe just a P850?
<foobarry> seen the pinebook?
<foobarry> https://www.pine64.org/
<diddledan> so cheap. shame it doesn't have many rams
<zmoylan-pi> buy 3 and run seperate tasks on each :-)
<daftykins> lol number pad.
<foobarry> [86804.517813] drm/i915: Resetting chip after gpu hang
<foobarry> ewww
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> more common than you think probably
<foobarry> yeah whenever i resume from suspend
<foobarry> and the machine freezes
<daftykins> don't use sleep? :)
<zmoylan-pi> as an insomniac i resemble that remark :-P
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: ah you just need a BIOS update or change of OS!
 * zmoylan-pi clings to os/2 and starts a rousing chorus of the ibm song... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am_sSvIT4xk
<daftykins> i'm actually far enough along with insurance for my domestic drama that i can buy things for the bathroom now!
<daftykins> they didn't even quibble over the rebuild spec one bit
<zmoylan-pi> so you've sourced the most expensive rubber duck you can find? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it runs linux AND android...
<daftykins> wow yep the local B&Q guy admits they pocket the VAT
<daftykins> "oh it goes on other stuff like freight and so on"
<zmoylan-pi> well... they have the resources to fortify the place and keep the tax bods out for ages... :-)
<daftykins> that they do!
<arsen> why do dell laptops (inspiron 13) only come with 128/256gig SSDs now ?
<arsen> the highest spec one you appear to be able to 'upgrade' to 512 :/
<zmoylan-pi> because we all trust the cloud :-P
<daftykins> it's always cheaper to do it yourself after the fact anyway
<arsen> my sister said something along those lines zmoylan-pi
<daftykins> i just order in for folk with spinning rust :)
<arsen> not sure i want to get my sis to self-install windows  on her own new laptop sadly, daftykins
<daftykins> seriously? it's ready, aim, fire these days
<arsen> i tend to avoid these kinds of complex issues by just paying through the nose for apple stuff.
<daftykins> you're at least browsing the outlet pages for the ace prices, yeah?
<arsen> didn't do much yet, just had a peak on the dell website to wonder why they dont offer more storage
<daftykins> yeah way better to have machines you can't upgrade ;D
<arsen> laptops should come standard with 2 * 1TB SSDs in raid1 tbh
<zmoylan-pi> you can upgrade an apple.... you just a very very steady hand to desolder the old ram and solder in the new ram :-P
<daftykins> SSDs in RAID is chavtastic computing, sir
<arsen> not much to upgrade in my mac tbh, i7/16gig :/
<arsen> does iterm2 in effortless style. lol.
<arsen> probably easier than working out a reliable backup solution thogh daftykins :D
<daftykins> well you have to use their backup, because if a machine from Apple dies you can't even remove the drive anymore! it's soldered on!* (* - most models)
<arsen> yeh i meant more for my sis rather htan me
<arsen> appleland does rely on timemachine, or drive imaging
<daftykins> it is good :( i hate to admit
<daftykins> it's just everything else...
<arsen> age odl debate, works for me :D sister is windows background so need to find her a decent laptop to run her bakery biz from
<daftykins> kinda funny a client of mine who got persuaded into an iMac for home and regrets it hugely
<daftykins> oh that reminds me
<daftykins> how do you tactfully bring up to a client that you keep seeing their shifty browsing history - in order to educate them on private browsing modes? :D
<arsen> im not sure id go imac. i like my macbook, but i use PC for gaming / other stuff
<arsen> 'antivirus scan found some odd browsing history'
<daftykins> nah they're too limited, in fact they're even worse on the storage side because you can only get those stupid fusion drive combos
<arsen> i guess if youre just using it as a terminal
<arsen> which is kinda how i use my macbook for work
<arsen> tho it does power some screens. i couldnt work from a windows machine these days, and ubuntu isn't terribly enterprise friendly
<BigRedS> does OSX do middle-click paste? That's easily the most annoying thing about using Windows for me
<daftykins> you know macs don't even have two buttons, right? :)
<arsen> fraid not, BigRedS
<arsen> well
<arsen> it does in iterm.
<BigRedS> haha, oh yeah, I forgot about that!
<BigRedS> but even with a normal mouse plugged in, do you not get that?
<arsen> yeh
<arsen> i use a logitech 'mx master'
<arsen> and i can middle click paste into terms
<diddledan> I don't always middle click, but when I do, it's quite hard
<diddledan> s/it's/I do it/ maybe?
<acheronUK> Artful Aardvark :)
<diddledan> utility voltage just went up to 252V. my UPS kicked-in because it detected it as abbarent - AVR: Active Voltage Regulation/Reduction (IIRC)
<diddledan> back down to 248V now
<zmoylan-pi> someone in currys has a mate flush out the marginal hardware just before the weekend to boost sales
<lopta> "marginal" in what way?
<zmoylan-pi> a little extra juice will fry it
<lopta> Hmm.
<diddledan> I like cortana
<diddledan> she's hot
<zmoylan-pi> wait till you meet a real woman... :-P
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> but by then he'll think he can ask them for the weather and allsorts :(
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> hey, daftykins, set an alarm for 30 minutes
<diddledan> in-built adblockers?! https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-and-google-reportedly-planning-on-adding-a-built-in-ad-blocker-to-edge-and-chrome/
<diddledan> hello? https://twitter.com/lizfraser1/status/855107725575041024
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> ok Master Chief
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-21
<daftykins> m0nkey_: wake up, it's Louis time! ;)
<m0nkey_> ALready here
<m0nkey_> *there
<m0nkey_> And i've taken to watching on twitch
<daftykins> ah har, i did follow him on there but i see he's got it so you don't get notified
<daftykins> i've not been up late enough to see him live for a while :> i should've entered that giveaway!
<m0nkey_> i get notifications from twitch
<daftykins> by email?
<m0nkey_> yup
<m0nkey_> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/INqu1LTg/
<daftykins> hmmmm maybe the new option that comes up when you hit follow from the android app controls email notifications and/or ones from the app
<daftykins> ah i mostly avoid the site, in fact if you tend not to bother with chat, check out livestreamer.io - it's ace :D
<daftykins> it's never Lupis, it's never the coil, it's never the LED driver
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> m0nkey_: wow this one is so crusty
<m0nkey_> bleh
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> not bad, and you?
<MooDoo> glad it's friday, but yeah ok
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> me too, whole of next week on holiday from work, :)
<MooDoo> ooo nice :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: you're glad it's Friday :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: :)
<SuperMatt> I'm so glad it's Friday, this is our last day in this crummy office before we move to the main campus
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: have fun with the move :)
<SuperMatt> It's gonna be real simple
<SuperMatt> Other people are moving the equipment
<SuperMatt> I've just gotta bag up my personal stuff and it'll get moved
<MooDoo> so you got to stand up, walk a bit then sit down again? lol
<SuperMatt> Should be on my desky Monday morning
<MooDoo> result
<SuperMatt> pretty much
<SuperMatt> and I get to leave at 3 today
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Tea Day! ð  ðµ â
<SuperMatt>  yucky!
<davmor2> Boston Harbour Worlds biggest teacup
<zmoylan-pi> so 10 bedsheets sewn together filled with tea for the biggest teabag and boston tea party 2.0!!   \o/
<SuperMatt> D:
<SuperMatt> tea is just so yucky
<zmoylan-pi> then you're drinking the wrong tea
<SuperMatt> and I'm extremely hungry
<zmoylan-pi> there are a *LOT* of varieties
<SuperMatt> I'm OK with green or fruity teas, but black tea can jog right on
<SuperMatt> but I'd rather not have them at all
<zmoylan-pi> tis not for everyone... but i love coming in from outdoors on a cold day and that first sip of a mug of hot tea...
<SuperMatt> Or come in from a cold day and have a glass of whisky
<zmoylan-pi> an american tries irish and uk tea...  http://boingboing.net/2017/04/20/tea-barrys-vs-pgtips.html
<davmor2> JamesTait: has to be this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8Ybkj7oLJU
<daftykins> haha i just got a cheap little Dell outlet machine which uses proprietary cables from the motherboard to provide SATA power - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s5wrfnfnuegtza4/AAD_1jzwEmmZonxOD_vhTsV3a?dl=0
<daftykins> after many transfers, Dell want Â£35 for a second one of these cables XD
<foobarry> ebay?
<daftykins> yep, had to hunt a bit more as the part number did nothing - Â£12.50 from Latvia
<daftykins> still a bit obscene :)
<foobarry> they are semi proprietary
<foobarry> had a similar issue with gpu power cables recently
<daftykins> yeah motherboard end is definitely specific
<daftykins> really? the 6 and 8 pin jobs?
<daftykins> did you lack a capable PSU and require a molex adapter or something?
<foobarry> i added a bunch of GPU to a server and it had a power bar thing
<foobarry> needed these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-pcs-6-PIN-TO-6-PIN-PCIE-graphic-card-POWER-CABLE-CCBL-146H-9-ORIGINAL-/222373205521
<foobarry> others i looked at were mainly extension cables or proprtary HP ones
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> what's that box do?
<foobarry> its got 6 gpu cards for playing with machine learning etc
<daftykins> funky!
<daftykins> i was more expecting a sort of terminal server for CAD users :D
<foobarry> i cracked a load of passwords with it
<daftykins> weak hashes?
<foobarry> i used the rockyou password list plus extra heuristics
<foobarry> worked well
<foobarry> google rewards is great. every time i buy my lunch from sainsbrys or asda i get 20p back for saying i had a great time
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> single tap of the phone to do that?
<foobarry> pretty much
<foobarry> they send a survey the next day
<foobarry> two taps
<daftykins> how's the google rewards bit tie in? i make use of Android Pay but haven't heard of that
<foobarry> it's a separate app daftykins called google rewards i think
<foobarry> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.paidtasks
<selinuxium> Hi all.
<BigRedS> hello!
<diddledan> awesome quote: "aaah, you just broke my production.. oil rig"
<daftykins> foobarry: ah i see, ta!
<zmoylan-pi> ::david attenborough voice:: and here we track the foraging habits of the lesser daftykins as it... :-P
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> insurance job accomodation quotes all received \o/
<zmoylan-pi> +3 adulting award unlocked
<daftykins> mm i'm not feeling lucky today else i'd roll for a 'zero snags build'
<daftykins> i've never tried D'n'D though so i'm sure i'm far wide of the mark!
<zmoylan-pi> that is always -2 on a friday
<daftykins> ooh
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: what'd you get up to today, sir? any good walks?
<zmoylan-pi> quick shuffle late down to town and back, a minimum 10,000 paces for my daily exercise... lots of kids parties going on along the route... end of the term holidays i suspect
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> so soon o0
<zmoylan-pi> so all those monday commuters will have something to swear at
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i kinda groan coming home as i wonder how late the town drunks are going to be trying to climb the scaffold on the building opposite me, again :P
<zmoylan-pi> are they climbing to put a traffic cone on top or claim a traffic cone previously installed as their prize?
<daftykins> hehe, usually just comparing manhood to the onlooking suiters, i think
<zmoylan-pi> there's a march for science going in town tomorrow so will probably get a bit of my daily exercise in that...
<daftykins> ah y'gotta come up with some good science themed chants to start
<zmoylan-pi> 2, 4, 6, 8 and other even numbers!!
<daftykins> \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-22
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon how are you doing ?
<brobostigon> knightwise: not too bad, a week off from work now ahead of me, some need rest, and you?
<brobostigon> needed*
<brobostigon> spent more time with my fiance, :)
<brobostigon> spend*
<knightwise>  wish i could say the same. Working in the library this afternoon while the wife is taking classes
<brobostigon> :(
<knightwise> its life , but i'm ok . love to work in the library
<knightwise> nice and peacefull here , although my clients still manage to get a hold of me
<brobostigon> :)
<moreati> Morning all. Could someone on 17.04 confirm something for me: in Chromium, if you hover over a link does the mouse pointer become a white hand with a black outline, or the inverse?
<daftykins> i think i've had my three dramas now, can they stop? :) https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ehdkt3a41ol6wk0/AABmBGSZRFuh7CWp3TcrBukka?dl=0
<penguin42> ewww
<daftykins> just hosting a small dinner party!
<penguin42> daftykins: Get an ant eater?
<daftykins> hehe, well the stuff they're enjoying is poison, not sure how it works though
<daftykins> http://www.vitax.co.uk/home-garden/nippon-ant-killer-liquid/ funky
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-23
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning al
<MooDoo> all even
<zmoylan-pi> how about those who are odd?
<zmoylan-pi> this _IS_ irc... :-)
<MooDoo> hehe :)
<MooDoo> just reinstalled laptop with ubuntu gnome....contrversial ;)
<zmoylan-pi> on a sunday... in a channel for linux... which only ups the oddness factor...
<MooDoo> people who know me know i'm odd
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not only odder than you imagine, i'm odder than you can imagine...
<MooDoo> I'm using a command line music player for heavans sake ;)
<zmoylan-pi> my main phone is nokia symbian
<MooDoo> ok you're odd ;)
 * zmoylan-pi hunts for some 8bit game music on my nokia to listen to...
<MooDoo> https://www.playonloop.com/music-loops-category/videogame/
<Safiyyah> need help recovering my system. It crashed, I have an encrypted home drive (Yes I have the password), I am on MATE live USB,
<Safiyyah> when it is not finding the encrypted drive
<Safiyyah> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24439954/
<Safiyyah> is anyone here?
<prohobo> no
<Safiyyah> lol
<Safiyyah> do you know how to recover an encrypted home drive, please help!
<Safiyyah> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24440035/
<Safiyyah> when I opened a root caja browser it still just give me the read me file and the how to access your private data
<m0nkey_> Says it right there. Enter your MOUNT passphrase that you wrote down.
<penguin42> you did write it down....?
<m0nkey_> Otherwise, restore from backup :)
<safiyyah> nvidia drivers, do you still use them with a hdmi connection?
<safiyyah> directhex_, foobarry ali1234
<safiyyah> diddledan,
<ali1234> yes
<safiyyah> ali1234, thanks
<safiyyah> going to try now
<safiyyah> do I STILL need to customise xorg?
<safiyyah> i have a new samsung hdmi 32 inch computer monitor.... you guys were really fed up with my old TV so I made sure it was a monitor
<ali1234> probably not
<safiyyah> oh yeiii, am going to have a go now
<safiyyah> and then I nearly died with my encrypted home drive today
<safiyyah> how do I find the encryption key?
<safiyyah> I will log in from the laptop
<ali1234> i don't know anything about that, sorry
<safiyyah__> restarting the pc
<safiyyah__> the display doesn't look bad on nouveau to be fair
<safiyyah__> but compiz is hard to not have
<daftykins> heh good ol' safiyyah
<daftykins> still better than 90% of help seekers :P
<zmoylan-pi> i connects my rasp pi with scart like nature intended... none of this namby pamby wishy washy hdmi for me :-P
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i haven't seen the ants at all today!
<zmoylan-pi> they're plotting something...
<daftykins> they're either onto my methods with the poison, or found a better food source
<zmoylan-pi> my money is that they're eating better than you... :-P
<daftykins> :O
<zmoylan-pi> omg it's full of sprites... https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1835143999/zx-spectrum-next/
<popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1835143999/zx-spectrum-next/ squeeee
<zmoylan-pi> you'd never fill 512k!
<daftykins> even more stuff with HDMI, what will you do, zmoylan-pi? :)
<zmoylan-pi> it does vga and analog too :-)
<daftykins> nooooo
<zmoylan-pi> they know their audience :-D
<daftykins> ah yep finally got to the rear snap
<zmoylan-pi> i could use vga or use my adapter to connect it via scart... /maxHipster
<zmoylan-pi> but for a modern reborn speccy... i'd buy a hdmi capable screen...
<daftykins> *gasp*
<zmoylan-pi> or cast acquire new monitor and be given one by someone who's already replacing their screen with newer device... it's how i get a lot of stuff...
<zmoylan-pi> that's where i got my lovely vga/scart/analog lcd screen which cost a stupid amount of money when it was new but was electronic junk when i got it
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> http://www.prad.de/images/monitore/dell_2408wfp/dell_2408wfp_rev_a01_anschluesse_1.jpg
<daftykins> my old 2008 models might be your dream device!
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-16
<avis> whats going on ?
<knightwise> good morning peeps
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> Today I ventured out of the house without a jacket. Spring is finally here
<knightwise> hey SuperMatt , how you doing dude
<SuperMatt> good thanks, you?
<knightwise> doing ok , been playing around with retropie a little this weekend.
<knightwise> gotta find me an old laptop to install it on
<knightwise> a pi is nice but then you always need a screen and stuff
<SuperMatt> what's retropie?
<knightwise> SuperMatt: the best game emulator you can ever one
<knightwise> own
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> knightwise: I can see why you'd want a screen for it then
<SuperMatt> My next project will probably be to manually configure a pi as a dns server within my home, using dnssec and 1.1.1.1
<SuperMatt> so all of my dns requests, even on my phone, will be secure
<knightwise> SuperMatt: yeah heard abou that service , need to update our DHCP too
<SuperMatt> I'm using 1.1.1.1 on my laptop, and it was trvially easy to set up. But I'd like it to be the default for my house
<diplo> Morning all!
<huw> huwf
<daftykins> this avis guy was a bit of a spam artist the other day?
<daftykins> avis-: connection trouble? also you spammed the channel recently?
<SuperEngineer> corned beef is better than spam. you only get probs from spammers, never corned beefers ;-)
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> spam is nicer than corned beef... but it depends how you prepare it of course...
<daftykins> i don't believe i've ever tried
<awilkins> Slice of spam, slice of cheap white bread, cut crusts off, cut in half, press each half onto either side of spam, fry in a pan until golden brown both sides.
<awilkins> Or maybe spam musubi (spam nigiri, basically)
<awilkins> Spam : the hot pink salty meat you can enjoy any time
<SuperEngineer> omg... what I have I started here???!!!!
<zmoylan-pi> all those hawaiians can't be wrong... :-)
<diddledan> spacex continue to be nutters! now they're gonna use a "party balloon" to land their bits: https://www.space.com/40313-spacex-rocket-landing-giant-party-balloon.html
<zmoylan-pi> i wonder if they have access to lawn chair larrys deckchair... :-)
<daftykins> ooh-err, wouldn't want my bits attached to balloons
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-17
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> is it possible to add a breakaway to an existing lanyard that doesnt have one?
<SuperMatt> I would imagine it's possible, but considering the time and effort costs, I would just buy a new lanyard
<brobostigon> very true., yes
<brobostigon> maybe for the moment then, my ubuntu one might be better then, than my D&D one. :)
<SuperMatt> I've given up on lanyards
<brobostigon> its a temporary solution, as i am moving into a new flat, to keep my new and old keys temporerily seperate in a way that they wont get lost.
<SuperMatt> a smart solution
<brobostigon> certainly.
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon, if you want to give me both sets of keys [and the relevant addresses] I promise I'll keep your keys nice and safe for you :D
<brobostigon> hmmm, :)
<zmoylan-pi> send him a pic of your keys on social media... :-P
<brobostigon> lolz
 * SuperEngineer prefers wax imprints btw :-)
<zmoylan-pi> not always dependable.  when devalera was broken out of a british prison he sent a wax impression of the keys needed in a candle.  the keys made from that impression failed.  thankfully he had a backup key made in the prison just in case... :-)
<SuperEngineer> [should have used putty]
<SuperEngineer> [so I'm told] ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> not much call for putty in a prison...
<SuperEngineer> :D
<SuperEngineer> Fortunately, never been in a prison, but I bet if you cou walk in and shout "anybody want some putty", there'd be plenty of takers!
<zmoylan-pi> run that past urban dicionary before trying it kids...
<SuperEngineer> lol
<zmoylan-pi> and even then, don't, prison slang is a whole other ballgame
<SuperEngineer> There are 72 users currently on this channel, I bet urban dictionary has just had 70 extra hits for "putty" ;-p
<zmoylan-pi> a fair few are bots i think
<SuperEngineer> +1
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-18
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<diplo> o/
<SuperMatt> morning all
<SuperMatt> 'tis a fine morning to be sure
<SuperEngineer> yikes! was just about to suspend my machine with Hexchat running...
<SuperMatt> IRC is dying
<SuperMatt> long live irc!
<SuperEngineer> before I do, does anyone know if suspending Hexchat...
<SuperEngineer> is going to cause freenode to send annoying messages to y'all
<SuperMatt> I imagine you just disconnect and we see nothing of you
<SuperEngineer> cool, apologies in advance in case of etc.... ;-)
<daftykins> sheesh, Dale Winton gone
<diddledan> bah
<diddledan> I vote we suspend people's death privileges
<daftykins> ok, but don't lose the password to change it back
<diddledan> shared by popey in telegram: https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/WhisperedBonyBuffalo
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-19
<diddledan> (telegram is where all the cool kids seem to be, these days)
<diddledan> and by cool kids, I mean popey and Wimpress
<ali1234> the gif is currently the number one post on reddit lol
<diddledan> that just proves the visceral nature of reddit for discerning news
<ali1234> can you use telegram without giving them your phone number?
<diddledan> no :-(
<ali1234> not interested then
<diddledan> it's not as bad as whatsapp though, which requires you to share your contacts before it lets you talk to anyone
<daftykins> somewhere out there, there's probably a shauno, too...
<daftykins> hmm not even not-shauno has been very active these days
<daftykins> in fact he's gone!
<diddledan> :-o
<daftykins> ( m0nkey )
<daftykins> if that was even the nick
<diddledan> it was, and is
<diddledan> he's over in #freenas right now
<daftykins> daym he quit on us
<diddledan> https://www.anandtech.com/show/12665/western-digital-launches-ultrastar-dc-hc530-14-tb-pmr-with-tdmr-hdd
<daftykins> amusingly i just pasted that elsewhere, 267MB/sec from a spinner!
<diddledan> interesting.. that article helpfully points out that 14TB offers 40% more space than 10TB
<daftykins> cor
<daftykins> a news bot in another channel usefully reported that debian 10 was to be succeeded by 11 and 12, the other day o0
<diddledan> omg. really? 11?!
<daftykins> i don't even know if i have the numbers right :>
<diddledan> it's 1 louder!
<Wimpress> diddledan: Cool?!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<knightwise> heyapeepz
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<daftykins> hrmm someones OnePlus 3T android phone was on strike from showing calendar entries today, (google apps, but MS Exchange account)
<daftykins> had to delete it and re-add to win :O
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-20
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<SuperMatt> morning all
<brobostigon> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-21
<daftykins> well that was some standard input and output
<zmoylan-pi> you put the right standard in, you put the right standard out...
<zmoylan-pi> and that's how you know it's not microsoft... :-D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
 * zmoylan-pi looks at ideal weather outside and plans to lurk indoors like the geek that i am... :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> that's the spirit!
<zmoylan-pi> i'm irish, i need sunscreen if it's a full moon and cloudless... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it can't end well... :-) http://www.vitamin-ha.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Top-Memes-irish-girl-sunbathing-the-other-one.jpg
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> I made a thing: https://isitoutyet.info
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> good jerb
<diddledan> just need to fill in all the history now
<daftykins> i don't see a clock countdown!
<SuperEngineer> if omer Simpson worked in bakery, would he spend the whole day going, "doh!"
<SuperEngineer> s/omer/Homer ....doh!
<brobostigon> lolz.
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-22
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<knightwise> hey peepz
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> just installed 18.04 on my old imac
<knightwise> very impressed so far
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> also installing it on my xps13 , cant use the windows version on my xps because of the GDPR
<brobostigon> i havent tried it yet, might roll a live usb before i upgrade, to test things out.
<zmoylan-pi> i usually wait a week or two after the release in case there are any whoopsies
<brobostigon> yes, hence my precaution of testing prior also.
<knightwise> its pretty clean . Its amazing how fast gnome/unity is right now
<knightwise> even on a dual core imac with 4 gigs of ram and a 128ssd
<knightwise> still no bluetooth love though. i think it has something to do with the firmware of the bluetooth chip of my xps
<knightwise> so no bluetooth mouse :(
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> i had problems like that with the wifi on my ibm thinkpad.
<knightwise> which is a shame if you have a 1200 euro top of the line laptop and need to plug in an IR receiver for your mouse
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not fan of bt mice or keyboards.  you think about a problem, you come up with a solution. you start typing and have to wait 5 seconds for bt to unsuspend... :-/
<knightwise> Hmm.. dont have that problem very often
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen it on every bt keyboard so far and i've seen a fair few. haven't tried apple keyboard mind and they may have added a few shortcuts to make it more elegant
<knightwise> does anyone else have BT issues with their XPS ?
<zmoylan-pi> is anyone awake with an xps you mean :-)
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: correct :)
