#ubuntu-mobile 2008-03-25
<slytherin> Mithrandir: 2 questions. 1. Any plan to upgrade bluez-utils and bluez-gnome? 2. Can you take a look at bug 191704 and see if the bug is valid i.e. we need all the binaries for connections. I myself don't have bluetooth mouse/keyboard, so can't comment.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 191704 in bluez-utils "hidd binary removed form bluez-utils package unable to connect as a result" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191704
<Mithrandir> slytherin: I don't own a bluetooth keyboard or mouse either, so I can't verify that bug.
<Mithrandir> slytherin: but hidd shouldn't be needed; upstream says the input service supercedes it.
<Mithrandir> slytherin: as for bluez-utils and -gnome, I would need to look at them again.
<slytherin> Mithrandir: Apparently people don't have a clear understanding as to how the new method works. That is the reason they are complaining about hidd binary being absent.
<slytherin> Mithrandir: I will add a comment redirecting all to wiki so that they can try the dbus method.
<Mithrandir> cheers
<slytherin> Mithrandir: in case the new method doesn't work or is having any problem, I think it makes sense to reintroduce the binaries. One of the commenter also offered to but a bluetooth mouse/keyboard set for the developers so that they can verify and fix the bug. :-)
<Mithrandir> I guess I could just go out and buy a keyboard and mouse and fix it that way.
<slytherin> Mithrandir: sadly, in the place where I live, most of the hardware vendors have no idea about bluetooth input devices. :-(
<Mithrandir> slytherin: I live in downtown Oslo, getting the hardware isn't going to be a problem.  It might take me a day or two at least, though.  (Even more so since I'm waiting to get a new DSL line installed so I can't leave the house today)
<slytherin> Mithrandir: no issues. But it is my personal opinion that this bug is a blocker for hardy release.
<\sh> guys, could someone test a wine build ib lpia on real hw? I'm trying to let it build now
<\sh> s/ib/for/
<\sh> agoliveira: hey :) two things: would you like to send you claws-mail patch to the claws-mail bugtracker with infos about what you changed, why and where...so they can discuss the inclusion of your patch?:)
<\sh> agoliveira: and if you are a type of adventure guy, please test wine on lpia (find packages here: http://www.sourcecode.de/content/wine-low-power-intel-architecture-lpia)
<agoliveira> \sh: Sure, just don't think I'll be able to do it in the next few days. We have a deadline coming.
<\sh> agoliveira: one claws-mail dev got in touch with me and asked about it :) 
<agoliveira> \sh: Cool. I'll see to it.
<\sh> agoliveira: now everybody can see the files I attached to the article too 
<hazard5150> Is Loic in here?
<mjg59> hazard5150: lool
<hazard5150> mjg59: ?
<mjg59> hazard5150: lool is Loic
<hazard5150> mjg59: Heh. I thought you had typo'd "lol" and couldn't figure out why you were laughing at me already. :-P
<mjg59> Haha
<mjg59> No, sorry about that :)
<hazard5150> Not your fault I misinterpreted.
<hazard5150> lool: I didnt' feel up to registering with launchpad before I leave for lunch, and wanted to let you know that I encountered what appears to be bug #151670 outside of VirtualBox. I ran gparted to resize an existing Windows partition, and then when I tried to install (using resierfs on the two empty partitions) it hung on the Prepare Partitions phase.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151670 in partman-partitioning "Crashes when creating reiserfs filesystem" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151670
<hazard5150> I tried several times, and left it there for as much as 2.5 hours without any change. I can reproduce the problem if you need any info, just send me a /msg and I'll come back.
 * hazard5150 hopes that he sees that, and heads out for lunch.
<hazard5150> mjg59: Thanks again.
<lool> (I confirmed #151670 in response to the ping by hazard5150)
<bspencer> configure.ac question for Linux pros
 * bspencer thinks they must be here somewhere
<bspencer>  my pkg needs libgconf2-dev to build.  Knowing that, how do I discover the correct configure.ac PKG_CHECK_MODULES(...) line
<bspencer> .
<bspencer> lool, Mithrandir   can one of you remind me what the process is for getting new changes into hardy?
<bspencer> in other words, am I supposed to update the hardy PPA, or you will do it?
<bspencer> I make changes to our master branch, then I push those changes into our internal build, and then does someone else pull the changes they want for hardy?
<bspencer> hardy image creation seems to be broken
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-03-26
 * bspencer attempts to fix hardy image failure by pushing cairo and pango source packages to PPA...
<taosinker> hi all
<taosinker> nice to meet you
<taosinker> why no any msg left by you?
<sabotage> lool: ping
<lool> sabotage: pong
<lool> sabotage: I'm in the conference call
<sabotage> I was looking into the blueprint for theming action from last meeting
<sabotage> and I find this: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-theming
<sabotage> but I can not edit it, no permission to create the blueprint
<sabotage> lool: sorry, get back to me when not on a call
<lool> sabotage: Are you a member of ubuntu-mobile?
<sabotage> yes (pretty sure)
<lool> sabotage: I think Tollef is the owner and we are stuck
<lool> Mithrandir: Can you make ubuntu-mobile owner of the specs you currently own
<sabotage> confirmed, I am a member of ubuntu-mobile
<lool> sabotage: probably an ownership issue
<sabotage> ok...I also did not have the ability to register a new blueprint so...
<sabotage> maybe has to do with my permissions?
<lool> sabotage: I've mailed Mithrandir to please set ubuntu-mobile as owner
<sabotage> lool: thanks
<bspencer> no bfiller ?
<smagoun> lool: have you or anyone on your team tried elisa on a Q1? I get a nasty message about my graphics hardware not being configured right, have you seen it?
<smagoun> "Your graphical hardware is not properly configured to support 3D software such as Elisa Media Center"
<smagoun> I have elisa-0.3.5-1, and other 3D apps work fine
<lool> smagoun: I didn't see it
<lool> smagoun: I know some hardware isn't supported by pigment ATM with a SVN only fix, but I don't think this was associated with an error message
<smagoun> lool: found a workaround. Naturally it has nothing to do w/ the error message :(
<smagoun> https://code.fluendo.com/elisa/trac/ticket/1165
<lool> smagoun: wow
<lool> smagoun: If you find a nicer patch, I'll bridge it to the archive or upstream; they are on #elisa BTW
<lool> s/nicer/nice
<lool> s/nice/
<smagoun> lool: ok, thanks
<smagoun> bfiller: The problem with the mobile-basic-flash in the PPA is that the version is 0.35, which is incorrect (there is no such thing as 0.35, it hasn't been released). Sounds like there's another problem on Intel's side, there are two 0.34 tags in git (hardy-v0.34 and RELEASE_0.34) that contain very different code.
<bspencer> bfiller, ping
<bfiller> smagoun: ok
<bfiller> bspencer: what's up
<bspencer> bfiller, howdy.  we finished first round of changes for freedesktop.org
<bfiller> bspencer: great
<bspencer> it makes changes and may have unexpected results
<bfiller> bspencer: such as?
<bspencer> I added two gconf keys:   onlyshowin_filter and onlyshowin_ignore to help reduce the short term impact
<bspencer> if an application doesn't supply OnlyShowIn=GNOME;Mobile, then it doesn't appear
<bspencer> if it has a category that doesn't map to gnome-menus default, it will show up in "Other"
<bspencer> the nice "Mobile" category is gone
<bspencer> the default home screen now comes up to Accessories as the first thing the user sees
<lool> bspencer: Did you discuss this at FreeDesktop or GNOME?  It would rock to get applications writer set this key properly in their .Desktop files
<bspencer> galculator doesn't have an icon
<bspencer> ...the list is long
<bfiller> bspencer: so if onlyshowin_ignore is true, then all apps will be displayed in "Other" even if they don't have the onlyshowin property set?
<bspencer> bfiller, not exactly...
<bspencer> onlyshowin_filter = bool     FALSE = don't filter anything
<bspencer> if FALSE, then it will show all .desktop file apps.   (e.g. bluetooth_analyzer, etc.)
<bspencer> if TRUE, it filters and you get a very reduced set
<bfiller> bspencer: I see
<bspencer> so I added the next key:  onlyshowin_ignore = [list of desktop files to show regardless]
<bspencer> onlyshowin_ignore defaults to something like  [browser, moblin-media(x3), galculator, mousepad, ...]
<bspencer> onlyshowin_ignore should be removed later when everyone is onboard.
<bspencer> open for suggestions
<bspencer> I kind of think that while using .desktop is nice, using OnlyShowIn is a hassle
<bspencer> but it is standard
<lool> bspencer: It's required for systems where you install KDE and GNOME packages for instance
<bfiller> bspencer: it sounds like a good solution. The key is making the .desktop files correct
<bspencer> one thing undefined is what to show on the first-time, because "Accessories" is lame, and "All" now shows the Preferences apps so it is too cluttered
<bspencer> and I was hesitant to fork the gnome_menu and add a new "Mobile" category
<lool> bspencer: What about adding a Main or Home category?
<bspencer> what we would need is either to have a mobile-basic-flash specific config, or add a new category group to /etc/xdg/menus/application.menu combined with .desktop file changes to add themselves to this group
<bspencer> lool, yes, right that is an option.
<bspencer> but how does an app-writer know if he should be there?  That is a UI-specific decisoin.
<bspencer> s/UI/Home-screen implementation
<bfiller> bspencer: I think adding a new category group to application.menu combined with .desktop would make sense
<bfiller> bspencer: the same way apps have conditional mobile code for ui they could do the same for .desktop?
<lool> bspencer: Why not simply not use All but some sensible Applications combination of all categories?
<lool> That is, Home would only show the .desktop files in categories which we have decided should be on the home screen
<bspencer> lool, bfiller   you're going in separate directions
<bspencer> lool's idea is easier and is mobile-basic-flash specific, true?
<lool> bfiller: I think bspencer is correct that it's hard for people to tell whether to list their app in this category
<lool> And it would be lots of patching
<lool> bspencer: We could set a per category flag whether to include it or not
<bspencer> lool, that would be simple enough.  We could add another gconf key even with a list of Home categories.
<bfiller> lool: but aren't apps going to have modify their .desktop files already to add the onlyshowin property to be shown in the mobile UI?
<lool> Actually we can probably express it already; something like <Not><Category>Settings</Category></Not>
<lool> bfiller: But that's going to be done as part of hildonization
<lool> bfiller: While deciding whether to be shown or not by default is a bit hard to ask to an upstream
<bspencer> and one mobile UI might choose to only show 4 apps, while another (ours) would show all apps except Preferenes
<lool> bfiller: It might be simpler to have a specific .menu file rather than gconf keys IMO
<lool> s/bfiller/bspencer
<lool> So many b*s!
<bfiller> lool: as part of hildonization for .desktop files why would it be difficult to add "Category=Mobile"?
<lool> bspencer: Hmm that's a good point; but the configuration place already exists
<lool> bspencer: Let us simply define a Menu which corresponds to what to show on the home screen and this should be customized by each implementation
<lool> bfiller: That's fine, it's exactly what I agree should be done; what's hard is to ask people to add X-ShowOnHomeScreen: yes or similar
<bspencer> won't everyone just put that, even if they shouldn't be on the home screen?
<lool> Exactly, which is why I'm saying a .desktop file level solution isn't ok
<lool> I think the solution is to define a menu and display whatever it matches on the home screen; the home menu so to say; it could include everything except settings by default
<lool> And be customized for $ui or $customer
<lool> But it's a single file to patch
<bfiller> lool: I agree. I think I'm confused with the difference between Category field in .desktop file and Categories that are shown in the Mobile UI
<lool> Changing 20 apps .desktop files for a customer would be painful
<lool> bfiller: Mobile UI doesn't show categorgies but Menus (I hope!)
<lool> categorgies hmm don't want to know what I was thinking of
<bspencer> it does what Ubuntu does now, same categories
<bspencer> and follows the same rules -- if no app there, it doesn't show.   If no matching category:  Other
<bfiller> bspencer, lool : I get it now. I agree with lool's solution :)
<lool> bspencer: Categories or menus?
<bspencer> lool,  uh...
<lool> bspencer: If you open /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu on an Ubuntu system
 * bspencer opens...
<lool> It's a tree of Menus
<lool> Defining filters on .desktop files
<lool> The filters can be based on the categories in the .desktop files
<bspencer> lool, oh, right.  Yes -- that is the Name we show
<lool> Cool
<lool> bspencer: So simply define a Home menu, make it include everything except settings
<bspencer> which is a little odd sometimes.
<lool> And if someone needs to specialize, he only has to change this file
<bspencer> for example, if you put "Internet" in your category, it won't show up in "Internet".  You have to put "Network" 
<bspencer> > lool, define a Home menu
<lool> bspencer: The menu is the Internet menu, and it includes anything related to Network
<bspencer>  in a separate file ?
<lool> bspencer: I don't know whether that's possible, but I suspect it is
<bspencer> installed separately by mobile-basic-flash.    Or try to patch gnome-menu?
<bspencer> lool, yes I think a separate one is possible, I see settings.menu and preferences.menu there.
<bspencer> I'll look into it
<lool> bspencer: In Debian, we have gnome-applications.menu, gnome-screensavers.menu, etc.
<bspencer> yep
<bfiller> bspencer: I'm pretty sure there is a cascading effect of menus. I believe it will look in  a special direcotry in the user's home dir
<lool> You could have mobile-ui-foo.menu which would say how menus are layered in this UI
<bspencer> ok.  I think I have enough to go forward here.
<lool> bspencer: preferences.menu is used in System -> Preferences under GNOME
<lool> And screensavers, I'm sure you know where it's used :Ã )
<lool> bspencer: Cool
<bspencer> bfiller, let's chat about hardy
<bspencer> bfiller, two things:   broken, and smagoun's email
<bspencer> I tried to build hardy image but hildon-desktop wouldn't install (last night).
<bspencer> something about cairo and pango version mismatch
<bspencer> is anyone building hardy and has this been addressed, or do I need to?
<bspencer> rusty and I hypothesized that if we pushed a newer source version of pango and cairo to PPA it might work.
<bspencer> lool, I guess I should bug you about it too.  ^^ 
<bfiller> bspencer: we build a nightly hardy image of a hardy snapshot and PPA. It did not have the problem you are referring to.
<ToddBrandt> bfiller: I'm trying to do a build with mccaslin-lpia-ubuntu-hardy-ppa-snapshot but it seems to have troubles creating the project, it loops forever on a set of packages with apt-get install, have you seen this?
<bfiller> lool: did the nightly core image work correctly
<bspencer> bfiller, hm.  Is the snapshot the same as I would get using the "snapshot" option in MIC?
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, welcome to the same conversation :)
<lool> bspencer: I'd need more info
<lool> bspencer: What APT repos are you using and what was the exact failure?
<lool> Ah ToddBrandt has the same issue
<ToddBrandt> ahh, nice
<lool> ATM, I don't have a screen attached to the host where I run MIC on; if you give me the exact APT error, I could figure it out perhaps :)
<ToddBrandt> incidentally, mccaslin-lpia-ubuntu-hardy-ppa installs without error
<bfiller> bspencer: not sure what image-creator snapshot is - we are using hardy snapshot from a few days agaon
<bfiller> s/agaon/ago
<smagoun> bspencer: we (Lexington/MSG) have our own snapshots that don't correspond to the ones from the core team
<lool> ToddBrandt, bspencer: would one of you be so kind to provide 
<lool> me the error?
<bspencer> lool, yep, fetching...
<bfiller> bspencer: I'm guessing something in hardy was reve'd that is causing hildon-desktop from ppa to fail?
<ToddBrandt> lool, I can give you the whole output log if you want
<ToddBrandt> 1 sec
<lool> ToddBrandt: The important part is the apt-get install failure
<lool> Oh heck, I'll run image-creator in ssh -X
<bfiller> lool: I thought moblin should be pointing at core's hardy snapshopt + PPA?
<lool> bfiller: Did I contradict this earlier?
<bspencer> lool, while my hardy image builds... let me double-check something we just agreed on
<bspencer> if I add a new .menu file to the xdg/menus location, the only control I have is specifying which categories to show in my "Home" category.  I can't specify specific apps.
<bfiller> lool: no you didn't, just not sure if the moblin guys are pointing at the right place
<ToddBrandt> I'm grabbing the error from the log
<lool> bspencer: I don't know what the .menu files allow; perhaps you can name app?
<bspencer> so if a home screen wants to filter the apps, that would be something they do on their own, not dictated by us.
<bspencer> lool, ok, sure.
<bspencer> I'll look into it.
<lool> bfiller: Right; I usually double check what people are using as APT sources
<lool> bspencer: It would be part of writing the config; should be a one hour job
<ToddBrandt> lool, bfiller: http://moblin.pastebin.org/25522
<bspencer> I'm seeing a different error today.  Something about mobile-basic-flash not being configured.
 * bspencer reads ToddBrandt's log
<lool> ToddBrandt: And with what config you say this is happening?
<ToddBrandt> lool: mccaslin-lpia-ubuntu-hardy-ppa-snapshot
<lool> Ah crap, I am creating a -ppa one, not a -snapshot
<ToddBrandt> mccaslin-lpia-ubuntu-hardy-ppa works fine, mccaslin-lpia-ubuntu-hardy-ppa-snapshot is busted
<lool> ToddBrandt: So what happens is pretty simple: packages uploaded to the ppa are built against the latest version of hardy and this might create dependencies on versions which have been uploaded to hardy after the snapshot
<lool> ToddBrandt: The solution is to find what is required and also push it to the ppa
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: oh wait, I see the error you mentioned, that apparantly happened even earlier and may have cause the pastebin error I showed
<lool> It's something which davidm and rustyl have discussed in depth I think
<crevette> heya there
<ToddBrandt> lool: this error happens during project creation, the one I sent before was target creation
<ToddBrandt> http://moblin.pastebin.org/25523
<ToddBrandt> lool: this is the command I use image-creator --command=create-project --platform-name=mccaslin-lpia-ubuntu-hardy-ppa-snapshot --project-name=atomichardy --project-desc=test --project-path=/usr/src/projects/atomichardy
<bspencer> http://moblin.pastebin.org/25525
<lool> #
<lool> Setting up mobile-basic-flash (0.38) ...
<lool> #
<lool> I/O warning : failed to load external entity "/etc/gconf/schemas/mobile-basic-flash.schemas"
<lool> #
<lool> Failed to open `/etc/gconf/schemas/mobile-basic-flash.schemas': No such file or directory
<lool> That's pretty bad
<bspencer> I wonder when it was uploaded....
<lool> bspencer: Hmm that's gutsy
<bspencer> I haven't uploaded to hardy since we changed the schema
<bspencer> because it wasn't ready yet.   :-\
 * lool builds for -snapshot now
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: ok, this may seem wierd, but I just tried to build a mccaslin-lpia-ubuntu-hardy-ppa-snapshot project outside the Intel firewall and it worked
<bspencer> so how does mobile-basic-flash v0.38 get into hardy?
 * bspencer is perplexed
<ToddBrandt> we may have some bad links in there
<lool> ToddBrandt: It failed for me
<smagoun> bspencer: there is no mobile-basic-flash v0.38 in hardy or in the PPA
<bspencer> lool, same error?
<bfiller> lool: the MSG group's solution to the Hardy/PPA mismatch is to have stable snapshots of both Hardy and PPA. Both then get reved together to prevent mismatch.
<lool> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6112/
<bspencer> lool, that is what I expected to see
<bspencer> lool, that is what I came to complain about.  Not sure about the other issue.  I'll look into it.
<bspencer> :)
<bspencer> perhaps cairo and pango have been updated in hardy
<ToddBrandt> lool: oh never mind, I got the same error, but the project built far enough that I can build moblin-applets so I'm cool with that for now
<lool> So hildon-desktop fails to install with this combination
<lool> This is mostly thanks to GNOME 2.22
<lool> pango1.0 1.20.0-1 was uploaded the 2008-03-11; hildon-desktop was uploaded to the ppa 2008-03-21
<lool> When it built, it started to require libpango1.0-0 >= 1.20, but only 1.19.4-0ubuntu1 is available
<lool> I've uploaded pango1.0_1.20.0-1ubuntu1~804um1.dsc to the um ppa now; once it's built, this will be solved
<lool> Same issue with cairo, libcairo2 >= 1.5.12 is now required
<lool> 1.5.8 is available
<bspencer> lool, much thanks
<bfiller> lool: I uploaded that version of hildon-desktop that is causing the problem. I did not know to check for newer dependecies in Hardy vs. Snapshot. What should I have done differently?
<RwL> should Skype run on UME? any special way to install?
<lool> cairo_1.5.14-0ubuntu1~804um1 pushed
<lool> bspencer: This is all I see for now; ping me again if you see it later on
<lool> bfiller: Hmm
<bspencer> lool, great.
<bspencer> RwL, I haven't tried Skype, but most apps I have tried do work.  Give it a shot.
<bspencer> bfiller, I hear you have a fix in the works to dismiss the startup banner when a dialog pops up.
<bfiller> bspencer: yes I do. It's working on my modified version of m-b-f. I need to grab your latest m-b-f and test and make a patch. Hopefully I'll get this done this week.
<bspencer> bfiller, I'd like that patch.  The firefox dialog is always right there behind the banner "Restore previous session" ...
<bfiller> bspencer: I also have a (better) fix that will solve the singleton app issue *without* having to modify the .desktop file
<bfiller> bspencer: I will get these both to you when they are complete for sure
<ToddBrandt> bfiller: I just uploaded moblin-applets 0.49.1 with that build bug fix
<bfiller> ToddBrandt: great, thanks
<bspencer> bfiller, you mean a singleton app for any app regardless of their .desktop ?  Great!
<bfiller> bspencer: yes, my previous fix assumed their was a valid StartupWMClass defined in the .desktop, otherwise it would not work. The new way assumes everything is a singleton. It could be modified to check for the "SingleInstance" property in the .desktop. I think this is standard..
<\sh> guys, I need some people to test wine on lpia :)
<GrueMaster> What in wine needs to be tested?
<\sh> GrueMaster: e.g. installing an windows app and how it hits the cpu on real lpia devices
<\sh> GrueMaster: use windows rar as an example...and no I don't want to test "windows games" on it
<crevette> \sh: winmine !!!
<crevette> :)
<GrueMaster> No games?  Awe....
<\sh> crevette: that will work out of the box ;)
<crevette> or minesweeper whatever it is called
<crevette> :)
<\sh> GrueMaster: well, I don't know anything about the ram on those devices..so it's hard to tell what is a good test case ,)
 * \sh needs to get hands on a nokia device
<lool> \sh: Nokia is arm
<GrueMaster> My understanding is that the actual units will have a min of 256M.
<\sh> or whatever is cheap 
<lool> lpia is Intel and we have like 256MB
<\sh> and has intel in it
<lool> \sh: You can actually run lpia on a regular PC; it's 32-bits
<crevette> launch your laptop with mem=256
<crevette> or in a vmware guest
<GrueMaster> I'll check the wine DB and see what apps work well.  No need to test apps that don't work.
<\sh> lool: are hct vendor devices (which runs win mobile normally) a perfect candidate?
<\sh> GrueMaster: you'll find lpia packages of wine on my blog.
<\sh> GrueMaster: http://www.sourcecode.de/content/wine-low-power-intel-architecture-lpia 
<lool> \sh: These are arm too
<lool> I think
<\sh> well, the fun part is to simulate a cpu with less then 3GHz ... I guess those devices are not so fast as my desktop or any vmware running on my desktop
<\sh> HTC shift is lpia...
<GrueMaster> \sh:  Got it.  I'll try to test it later this afternoon (it's 2:20pm now).
<\sh> GrueMaster: thx a lot...if that works..I'll need to convince people to add lpia to the P-a-s file for debian and ubuntu
<lool> \sh: There's a pas for ubuntu?!
<\sh> lool: we share it with debian
<lool> Hmm ok, didn't know that
<lool> Makes a couple of things clearer to me now
<crevette> a pas ?
<lool> Packages arch specific
<lool> a file where you say what to not build on some arches
<crevette> ah okay, thank you, I can back to sleep now
<crevette>  :)
<\sh> crevette: http://cvs.debian.org/srcdep/Packages-arch-specific?rev=1.742&root=dak&view=markup
<\sh> {elmo,lamont,infinity} needs to be bribed ;) 
<\sh> hmm htc shift x9500 with umts and hsdpa  for 1169 euro on amazon...my wife will kill me if I hit the "buy now" button
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, 
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: howdy
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, what platform did you create to get the mobile-basic-flash error you posted in your pastebin?
<ToddBrandt> snapshot one
<ToddBrandt> mccaslin-lpia-ubuntu-hardy-ppa-snapshot
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, I can't reproduce it
<bspencer> I can reproduce it with non-snapshot gutsy image, just not hardy snapshot
<ToddBrandt> did you create a target?
<ToddBrandt> The error is on target creation
<bspencer> oh, ok.
<bspencer> I thought I did
<ToddBrandt> yea both the project and target fail with errors
<ToddBrandt> http://moblin.pastebin.org/25523 is for the project build error
<ToddBrandt> http://moblin.pastebin.org/25522 is for the target error
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: and actually I don't see the mobile-basi-c-flash error in either, I think lool is the only one to see it so far
 * bspencer needs a clue for installing schemas
<bspencer> there's too many ways
<bspencer> and I don't do it right apparently
<bspencer> :(
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: is your latest in mobile-basic-flash master?
<bspencer> yep
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, I have the step to install the schema when the user runs "make install"
<bspencer> instead of forcing them to do it with a postinst script
<bspencer> and I used dh_gconf
<bspencer> but somewhere it screwed up, so I'm redoing it 
<ToddBrandt> heh, I think that's why I bailed on it
<bspencer> I thought it was working yesterdaqy when I checked in.  I verified that I could install the package and make an image too, but for some reason today it is not working
<ToddBrandt> dh_gconf is a gnome thing
<bspencer> ToddBrandt,  in schemasdir = $(GCONF_SCHEMA_FILE_DIR)
<bspencer> where does GCONF_SCHEMA_FILE_DIR get defined?
<bspencer> is that part of AM_GCONF_SOURCE_2 ?
<bspencer> (in my configure.ac,  but not in yours anywhere I can see)
<ToddBrandt> I use the gconf-schemas command, it knows on its own
<ToddBrandt> There's probably some reason for me to use dh_gconf in the rules file to install the schemas but I'll be damned if I could ever get it to work properly
<RwL> error trying to install Skype: package architecture (i386) does not match system (lpia)
<RwL> I downloaded the Ubuntu 7.4+ deb...
<RwL> should I be installing it via apt-get instead?
<bspencer> RwL, :(  You'll have to tweak the source to get it to install
<bspencer> because that package is blocking based on arch check
<agoliveira> RwL: or just manually install forcing the arch if the idea is just testing. Should work the same.
<agoliveira> RwL: dpkg --force-architecture IIRC
<RwL> aha! thanks, will check & try
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, if I put postinst in debian directory, do I need to do more to get it to run ?
<bspencer> or is just having it sufficient ?
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, how can I remove a schema from my gconf to reset the system ?
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: once you call gconf-schemas --register, it's registered, every user on the system will then get those settings by default
<ToddBrandt> there changes get put in their .gconf dir
<bspencer> yeah, I copied your pattern, put the gconf-schemas in a postinst file
<RwL> agoliveira: that bypassed the architecture check but there are apparently dependency problems too. should I just try to get those via apt-get? (libqt4-core and libqt4-gui were the ones listed)
<bspencer> do I need to call that somewhere (I don't see it anywhere so I assume that it just gets run)
<ToddBrandt> I just remove them
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, right, how?
<ToddBrandt> however the correct way to do it is with the --unregister
<ToddBrandt> gconf-schemas --unregister
<ToddBrandt> I think I should fix that in my postrm
<bspencer> hm,... postrm :)
<ToddBrandt> yep, if someone can explain to me why that's bad I'll change it
<ToddBrandt> but until that day, it works so well
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, but why is OLD_DIR=/etc/gconf/schemas and not /usr/share/gconf/schemas ?
<agoliveira> RwL: Yes, if you solve the dependencies manually it should install
<ToddBrandt> because that's a bug I think, I need to use --unregister
<ToddBrandt> it's probably leaving those things on the system after uninstall, which is bad
<bspencer> got it
<bspencer> I'll try
<bspencer> argh!  I just now realize that horace made changes last night
<bspencer> thus the broken schema.  Mine was working!  :(
<ToddBrandt> bfiller: I added the moblin-settings-xsettings.c code to moblin-settings-daemon, however in order to ensure I've done it properly can you tell me what you use to test?
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: ahhhh, so then it shall me I who copies your code :D
<ToddBrandt> bfiller: and if it's on hardy I have no way to test that at the moment, I can't create a target image with MIC
 * ToddBrandt just realizes that bfiller isn't even here
<ToddBrandt> kyleN: I added the moblin-settings-xsettings.c code to moblin-settings-daemon, however in order to ensure I've done it properly can you tell me what you use to test?
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, gconf-schemas --unregister <file> doesn't remove them when I run gconf-editor
 * bspencer looks at how to restart gconf...
<ToddBrandt> gconf-editor only looks at the changes, if the user has changes made to those keys then they'll stay
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, oh.  do I remove ~/... something?
 * bspencer looks
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: you have to remember that gconf is actually a joke on us linux guys by the windows developers who created the registry. They're laughing at us right now...
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, if it worked like the registry I'd have no complaints.   (sad but true)
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: worst case you could delete the directory path under /root/.gconf and /home/ume/.gconf but that's getting hacky
<bspencer> is there a non-hack way?  I just want ot verify that my install actually creates the schema correctly in my target
<bspencer> but I can't get rid of the old schema
<ToddBrandt> Actually, why don;t you use gconftool-2?
<bspencer> ok.  I'm usin git
<bspencer> I gconftool-2 --shutdown
<ToddBrandt> you can run that as whatever user, then tell it to kill those keys
<bspencer> still has schema
<ToddBrandt> bspencer, run man gconftool-2
<ToddBrandt> --recursive-unset
<ToddBrandt>               Recursively unset all keys at or below the key/directory names on the command line.
<ToddBrandt> there's also --unapply-schema which II've never tried
<ToddBrandt> kyleN: I added the moblin-settings-xsettings.c code to moblin-settings-daemon, however in order to ensure I've done it properly can you tell me what you use to test?
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, needless to say, none of those commands gets rid of my gconf keys :(
<bspencer> but I'll just make a new target and try it there
<ToddBrandt> I think user gconf changes aren't meant to be removed
<bspencer> I think gconf removal is impossible
<ToddBrandt> yea
<bspencer> :)
<ToddBrandt> which seems wrong
<ToddBrandt> but there it is
<lool> ToddBrandt, bspencer: MIC should be able to go further with the -snapshot platform
<ToddBrandt> lool: did you fix it?
<lool> Yes, well the uploads I did to the ppa fixed it
<ToddBrandt> ahh, kewl
<ToddBrandt> I'll try it now, thanks!
<lool> ToddBrandt: It will probably fail in the q1full fset subsequently though; it just did for me
<ToddBrandt> How can I help fix that?
<ToddBrandt> i.e. how do I figure out which packages to upload from the errors, and then how do I upload them?
<lool> ToddBrandt: So for instance, the error I now get is:
<lool> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6123/
<lool> ToddBrandt: I then chroot /srv/chroots/mccaslin-lpia-hardy-ppa-snapshot/targets/q1ufull/fs /bin/bash
<lool> Reproduce with apt-get install ubuntu-mobile
<ToddBrandt> oh lord, moblin-applets is breaking it
<lool> Then I try "apt-get install ubuntu-mobile cheese"
<lool> and I see:
<lool> The following packages have unmet dependencies: cheese: Depends: libebook1.2-9 (>= 2.22.0) but 2.21.92-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
<lool> At which point it's clear that libebook1.2-9 is too old now
<ToddBrandt> yea, that's the about-=me dialogs dep
<lool> So I'll snapshot eds
<lool> It's going to take a while
<ToddBrandt> wait, so I need to upload the latest ebook to hardy?
<ToddBrandt> can you explain what snapshot eds does?
 * ToddBrandt admits his ignorance
<lool> ToddBrandt: Oh nothing in particular, I took EDS from hardy, and pushed it to th eppa
<lool> With a proper changelog entry and version
<lool> I'm uploading evolution-data-server_2.22.0-0ubuntu2~804um1.dsc now
<lool> When it's built, we should see the install continuing
<ToddBrandt> ahh, so that should take care of the libebook dep
<lool> Yes
<ToddBrandt> would I have access to upload things like that?
<ToddBrandt> i.e. could I be of help instead of just someboedy whining?
<lool> Sure, you could do it as well
<lool> Anybody in ubuntu-mobile can
<ToddBrandt> gotcha
<lool> Another fix is to take a newer snapshot
<ToddBrandt> oh yea, with dput
<lool> And the proper fix is to build against the snapshot, but this requires a separate archive
<ToddBrandt> lool: ok, so I find the hardy package that will satisfy the dependency, then I doanload it, pull out its source, and create the .source/.build.dsc files that are needed for spu, then I dput it to moblin-ppa?
<ToddBrandt> spu = dput
<lool> Yes
<ToddBrandt> gotcha
<lool> If you look at my cairo of pango1.0 uploads, you should see the delta with hardy is only the changelog
<lool> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+archive/+builds => building now
<ToddBrandt> ok
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-03-27
<lool> ToddBrandt, bspencer: now fixed up to samsungq1u full target creation
<lool> evolution-data-server finally decided to build on i386
<ToddBrandt> lool: sweet, I'll try rebuilding again
<bspencer> lool, hm.. is that  a known problem?
<lool> bspencer: Which one?
<bspencer> lool,  what is samsungglu ?
<lool> samsung q1 ultra full
<bspencer> oh
<dholbach> good morning
<ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: you online?
<Mithrandir> ToddBrandt: yes
<ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: how do I see the list of bugs assigned to moblin-applets for hardy?
<ToddBrandt> Are they mixed in with the gutsy bugs?
<ToddBrandt> I finally have a working hardy image and want to get some of these bugs off the radar
<Mithrandir> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/moblin-applets/ you mean?
<ToddBrandt> ahh, there it is
<ToddBrandt> thanks
<cgregan> Is there a wiki out there for setting up a Xephyr session for UME?
<RwL> cgregan: no a wiki, but I finally got UME going in Xephyr via these instructions: http://www.moblin.org/documentation_howto/howto_create-image.php
<cgregan> RwL: Thanks
<RwL> do you already have a version of Moblin Image Creator installed?
<RwL> can anyone point me to a list of the default home screen apps for UME? I've been messing around, installing all kinds of things to see if they'll work, and I've found myself with 65 icons when I view all. Wondering which ones made it on there with which installations.
<smoser> does anyone know the difference between "Mobile Developer" and "Mobile Engineer" (http://www.ubuntu.com/employment) ?
<lool> RwL: The default list should be mostly the one pulled by the ubuntu-mobile meta package
<lool> RwL: Any FreeDesktop app is probably listed by default for now
<agoliveira> smoser: The Ubuntu Mobile Engineer will work with the core team and  Developer with MID Team which has different responsabilities.
<smagoun> smoser: there's not much practical difference. I think one reports to the core ubuntu mobile team, and one works for the team that customizes UM for various OEM/ODMs. The two teams work quite closely, and many responsibilities are shared.
<lool> smagoun: But if you're smart, take the UME one
<lool> :-P
<lool> s/smagoung/smoser, but just kidding anyway
<smagoun> lool: nah, we (MID/MSG Team) get more new hardware to play with!
<smoser> agoliveira, smagoun thanks.  I had thought that it might be a statement of level (ie, one being a promotion from the other).
<smoser> thanks.
<smagoun> smoser: no promotion that I'm aware of, if you find out there is one please let me know!
<lool> smoser: If you're good enough, you can get the UME position from the start, yeah
<lool> Ah /me stops joking and gets back to work
<agoliveira> smagoun: Yeah that gives you some geek points but I rather work from my home or from the beach if I want to :)
<lool> agoliveira: Hmm I think Lexington isn't a hard requirement anymore now
<smagoun> agoliveira: I work in the office, and I get to sit RIGHT NEXT TO ChickenCutlass.
<lool> smagoun: And that's a feature?  :)
<Sciri> And I get to throw things at smagoun.
<agoliveira> lool: Can you please, don't spoil my turn in the pissing contest? :)
<agoliveira> smagoun: Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't know that. :P
<RwL> lool: afraid I don't know how to find/identify that meta package... I found /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-mobile via find but all I see is the changelog
<lool> RwL: It's a package, you'll see it in your preferred package manager!?!
<lool> RwL: "apt-get install ubuntu-mobile" will install it for example
<RwL> ah, OK... I'm browsing the package now in Synaptic but I'm still clueless on how to identify where or how it pulls the list of default apps I was interested in.
<lool> Meeting in 2
 * ToddBrandt is here
 * agoliveira is here but forgot the coffee... sigh...
<lool> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:01. The chair is lool.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<lool> Hi all
<ToddBrandt> oy
<lool> Let's start with the action items!
<lool> [topic] Debbie to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] [cted]
<MootBot> New Topic:  Debbie to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] [cted] 
<lool> DebbieFoghorn: Heya; so I think you did this
<DebbieFoghorn> lool: yes I did.
<DebbieFoghorn> The charts are on our internal wiki
<lool> So you wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/GeneratingBootchartsForUMEImage
<lool> DebbieFoghorn: Could you please promote the chart on the public wiki?  I think Pat gave is ok
<DebbieFoghorn> lool: Sure, I'll do that now.
<lool> DebbieFoghorn: Thanks; should I keep the action open?  I guess not, people will see them on the same wiki page, right?
<lool> DebbieFoghorn: And thanks for putting that together
<lool> Moving to next action otem
<lool> *item sorry
<lool> [topic] kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored [cted]f
<MootBot> New Topic:  kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored [cted]f 
<lool> kyleN: I see you compiled some results on the wiki already
<lool> kyleN: Tell us more
<kyleN> for some reason, I am seeing no messages. I will log out and in.
<lool> See you in a sec
<lool> kyleN: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6136/
<lool> kyleN: Seeing messages now?
<lool> Hmm I guess we'll defer the actions to later in the meeting
<kyleN> hey
<kyleN> there it is
<lool> kyleN: hey, you copy now?
<kyleN> is it my action item?
<kyleN> yes
<kyleN> irc client bug, sorry
<lool> kyleN: It is
<lool> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6136
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/6136 
<kyleN> ok, I made progress on my action
<kyleN> the problem as I see it is translating hildon
<kyleN> i divided it into a series of problems and came up with solutions
<lool> kyleN: Are these on the wiki?
<kyleN> I wrote it up here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonTranslation
<kyleN> the bottom line is that I now see a path towards translating hildon
<kyleN> which is a relief
<kyleN> it will require several things, but see the wiki
<kyleN> there are a couple questions near the bottom that need addressing
<lool> Not quite sure why you started a new page instead of changing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/MobileLangpack
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonTranslation
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonTranslation 
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/MobileLangpack
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/MobileLangpack 
<kyleN> translating hildon is related but different
<lool> Well I see many common tasks in both pages
<kyleN> fine. I wrote this last night at 2 a.m.
<lool> So back to the action point, the actual goal was to build domains <-> source packages maps; I see a map at the bottom of your page
<lool> It seems that it's a consumer map; do you also have a provider map?
<kyleN> i don't know what you mean
<lool> It's a list of where domains are in use; do you have a list of where to find templates?
<kyleN> yes, i describe it in the wiki
<kyleN> each of the source packages I ID there has the appropriate source template
<lool> Oh it's on the right, ok
<kyleN> what I did was:
<lool> kyleN: Looks good
<kyleN> 1) find all domains called by hildon packages we use
<kyleN> 2) find the source templates in maemo
<kyleN> it took a lot of work to get there, but c'est la vie
<kyleN> and describe how we can actually translate hildon, with a couple options
<kyleN> and open questions
<lool> kyleN: The results are quite useful though: we now can tell what we miss and where we will find it
<kyleN> cool.
<kyleN> some of it is automated using my python tool. 
<kyleN> that's the part that analyzes source packages nad provides a report of domains called
<lool> kyleN: That's excellent, it means that if hildon folks add modules or move things around, we can rebuild the map
<DebbieFoghorn> lool: FYI, the bootcharts are now uploaded to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/GeneratingBootchartsForUMEImage.  Let me know if you need anything else from me.
<kyleN> yes, with some work
<lool> DebbieFoghorn: Thanks
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/GeneratingBootchartsForUMEImage
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/GeneratingBootchartsForUMEImage 
<lool> Ok; thanks a lot to kyleN 
<lool> Moving to next action now
<kyleN> my pleasure
<lool> [topic] kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] [cted]
<MootBot> New Topic:  kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] [cted] 
<lool> kyleN: It's you again \o/ :)
<kyleN> alas, I will have to take another pass on this, offering up the usual (but valid) excuses
<lool> kyleN: So some meetings ago we wondered what hildon-help is and whether we need it
<lool> kyleN: Ok
<lool> [action] kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] [cted] [cted]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] [cted] [cted] 
<lool> [topic] lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] [cted]
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] [cted] 
<lool> So
<lool> I didn't see any uploads of these; did someone work on them?
<lool> bfiller_, smagoun, horaceli (bspencer?)?
<smagoun> lool: no time yet :(
<lool> agoliveira
<lool> I didn't do my second module either
<bfiller_> lool: same here, did not get to it
<lool> I know agoliveira was in conference last week
 * agoliveira is ashamed to say not yet but intends to complete until next meeting saving any emergency.
<lool> Ok; so I'm keeping the weekly review open
<lool> [action] lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] [cted] [cted]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] [cted] [cted] 
<lool> [topic] lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process [cted]
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process [cted] 
<lool> It's my turn to announce I failed doing this again
<bspencer> lool:  We /would/ have done our Hildon 2.0 update... but we didn't have a document to follow
<bspencer> :P
<lool> Easter, busy week, and Moblin conf call yesterday; I didn't manage to put a solid chunk of time to do it
<lool> bspencer: Ah, I do have notes on that
<lool> bspencer: I'll add them to the Hildon 2.0 wiki page
<lool> bspencer: The path I followed is quite painful, some shortcuts can be taken
 * agoliveira didn't like much the last lool's line :)
<lool> [action] lool to document tips for Hildon 2.0 updates on Hildon 2.0 wiki page
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to document tips for Hildon 2.0 updates on Hildon 2.0 wiki page 
<lool> agoliveira: It actually means you wont have a nearly as painful path ;)
<lool> Back to documenting the tarball -> ppa update process; I'll do it tomorrow for sure unless hit by a truck or a new high priority assignment, but it's highest on my todo list I swear
<lool> s/swear/promess
<lool> swearing is bad
<lool> [action] lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process [cted] [cted scheduled for Friday the 28th]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process [cted] [cted scheduled for Friday the 28th] 
<lool> [topic] lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process [cted]
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process [cted] 
<lool> Hmm this is about the same
<lool> Not quite sure why I have it as two actions; but i'll send it to rustyl_ immediately after it's written!
<rustyl_> ok
<lool> [action] lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process [cted] [cted scheduled for Friday the 28th]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process [cted] [cted scheduled for Friday the 28th] 
<lool> [topic] rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process [cted as blocked by lool last week]
<MootBot> New Topic:  rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process [cted as blocked by lool last week] 
<lool> rustyl_: So hmm, nothing to discuss; I'm still blocking you sadly, but should resolve tomorrow
<rustyl_> ok
<lool> [action] rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process [cted as blocked by lool last week and the week before that...]
<lool> [topic] ToddBrandt to talk to bspencer and mawhalen about the merging with Hardy and bfiller and lool, etc.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process [cted as blocked by lool last week and the week before that...] 
<MootBot> New Topic:  ToddBrandt to talk to bspencer and mawhalen about the merging with Hardy and bfiller and lool, etc. 
<lool> ToddBrandt, bspencer, mawhalen: ^
<lool> We didn't do this
<bspencer> true... remind again about it?
<lool> ToddBrandt, bspencer, mawhalen: we're happy to host the confcall if needs be; could you send bfiller_ and myself an agenda?
<lool> bspencer: I have no idea, I understand it was proposed by you folks; probably in last week's minutes
<bspencer> yeah, I proposed it
<mawhalen> I don't know what this is either
<bspencer> what were we talking about though.
<bspencer> merging Control Panel applets with upstream ?
<bfiller_> bspencer: it had to do with keeping moblin-applets in sync (or not) with gnome
<ToddBrandt> oh right
<bspencer> ok.  it's all coming back to me now
<bspencer> yeah, we didn't do that yet.
<lool> I think davidm requested this action twice
<ToddBrandt> the plusses and minuses of maintaining moblin-applets with completely up-to-date additions from its parent package: gnome-control-center
<lool> I didn't quite understand it last week TBH
<fbc> Hi all! I just read the write up on fullcirclemagazine.org and was wondering whether there would be a branch of the project that would run on Intels Xscale processors such as those in the Motorola Q's?
<lool> fbc: We're in the middle of a meeting right now; could you ask after the meeting?  Thanks!
<fbc> all.. sry
<bspencer> lool: continue the action.
<bspencer> what time can we meet to discuss ?
<bspencer> Monday...10amPDT ?
<lool> bspencer: The 5pm UTC slot could be a good one for; it's morning for MSG and evening here
<lool> Early morning for you
<bspencer> 5pm == ?
<bspencer> ?PDT
<lool> 10am PDT => 17 UTC, we agree :)
<lool> IIUC
<bspencer> yeah, "early" through me off
<lool> Ah there's a catch, I'm switching to summer time this WE
<bfiller_> bspencer, lool: that works for me
<lool> One hour earlier would be preferable for me, but I can do it
<bspencer> Monday 10am sound OK for ToddBrandt mawhalen  (maybe rustyl_ if he's around) for a short discussion on future of moblin-applets vs. gnome ?
<ToddBrandt> sounds good
<ToddBrandt> oh wait, this monday?
<lool> Yes
<mawhalen> Is is a phone meeting or IRC?
<lool> mawhalen: phone
<ToddBrandt> Crap, I have an appointment with my accoundtant this monday
<lool> Wednesday?
<ToddBrandt> can you make it Tuesday?
<ToddBrandt> sure
<lool> Or Tuesday would work at that time
<lool> bfiller_: Tuesday?
<bspencer> Tues yes, Wed no.
<lool> I'm not sure davidm's conference line is free though
<bspencer> we can set the conference, np.
<bfiller_> lool: Tuesday works
<lool> bspencer: Can you send us details for Tuesday, 5pm UTC?
<bspencer> I'll send an invite for Tue 10am PDT  5PM utc
<bspencer> ACTION bOB...
<lool> bspencer: Well no need to review this "action" next week ;)
<bspencer> sure
<lool> Ok; done with action items
<lool> Moving to current items
<lool> [topic] Moblin implementation of gettext and intltool, how's it going? (kyleN)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Moblin implementation of gettext and intltool, how's it going? (kyleN) 
<kyleN> Lool and I both wrote up wiki pages on impl'ing i18n. I believe Moblin was going to do this for all relevant packages (those that expose strings in UI). What is the status of this effort? 
<lool> bspencer, rustyl_: Could we assign i18nization or at least l10nization to Moblin projects maintainers?
<bspencer> we've filed bugs for outstand i18n bugts in media player
<bspencer> most are fixed.  media import still has a bug
<bspencer> I know of one other moblin-media location that isn't yet i18n
<lool> bspencer: Which Moblin projects are i18ned/miss it?
<bspencer> cwong... hm, not online.
<lool> If you don't have the information and think you can build it, can we build it for next week?
<bspencer> I think browser is already, following Firefox mechanism
<bspencer> lool: yes.
<bspencer> ToddBrandt: is appletsw i18n ?
<lool> bspencer: Ok for you to take the action?
<bspencer> lool: love to
<lool> Cool
<HappyCamp_laptop> kyleN: Can you send the link to the wiki page?  for i18n stuff
<ToddBrandt> moblin-applets is, is that what you mean?
<lool> [action] bspencer to list i18n status for Moblin project
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer to list i18n status for Moblin project 
<kyleN> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/I18nMobileCode
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/I18nMobileCode 
<kyleN> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/I18nQuickstart
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/I18nQuickstart 
<lool> Ok; sounds like a plan then
<lool> Anything else on the topic?
<HappyCamp_laptop> thanks
<kyleN> not from me, thank god
<kyleN> ;)
<lool> No other topic to discuss?
<kyleN> one
<HappyCamp_laptop> so nothing about i18n for python?
<ToddBrandt> lool: what about the gtk_theme gconf stuff I was supposed to add to moblin-setings-daemon
<kyleN> HappyCamp_laptop: I actually mention MIC as a model for doing it in python
<lool> ToddBrandt: Hmm how come we missed that action
<ToddBrandt> lool: it's there now in GASTON
<HappyCamp_laptop> k.  The title I thought said C code from my very quick look.  Will check it out :)
<kyleN> ToddBrandt: thanks for remembering
<lool> ToddBrandt: For some reason, it's not on the action list
<lool> ToddBrandt: Let's do it
<lool> [topic] ToddBrandt's action on gtk_theme gconf stuff for moblin-setings-daemon
<MootBot> New Topic:  ToddBrandt's action on gtk_theme gconf stuff for moblin-setings-daemon 
<ToddBrandt> lool: I haven't put it in hardy yet because I need to test it on gaston first, is there an app you'd like me to make sure works?
<lool> ToddBrandt: I see you committed stuff on that today
<ToddBrandt> yea
<lool> ToddBrandt: I think that if you test it works with gconftool-2, it will be good enough
<ToddBrandt> oh that's it?
<ToddBrandt> not theme-switcher or anything, ok
<lool> ToddBrandt: Well I think that's all you were asked, but then if you feel like also implementing a theme switching applet, you would be welcome
<kyleN> +1
<ToddBrandt> I need to, it's on my plate, it's just way off on the side of the plate, I'll look at that this week
<lool> ToddBrandt: But thanks for your efforts in implementing this
<ToddBrandt> no problem, sorry for the lateness btw
<kyleN> totally
<lool> I think it was a missing infrastructure for MSG folks which can now happily implement some theme switching in /some way/ :)
<lool> Ok; any other topic to discuss today?
<kyleN> one
<lool> kyleN: Go ahead
<kyleN> can moblin characterize whether they will fix gestures in media?
<lool> [topic] (kyleN) can moblin characterize whether they will fix gestures in media?
<MootBot> New Topic:  (kyleN) can moblin characterize whether they will fix gestures in media? 
<lool> kyleN: So you're seeing a bug or missing feature and would like to know whether support or fixing support for this is planned?
<patm> kyleN, while in Portland I was told that this feature was removed due to lack of interest, although I did not see the discussion that lead to that
<kyleN> nor I
<kyleN> I think it's very much wanted and appropriate
<lool> bspencer: Who would know?
<bspencer> no gestures
<bspencer> what does gestures mean?
<bspencer> when were there gestures?
<kyleN> it measns lide finger to right to page to next photo
<lool> bspencer: You move the stylus to the right, it switches to the next song
<kyleN> slide finger to scale up, scale down
<kyleN> slide to rotate
<bspencer> yeah, I understand
<kyleN> these used to work
<bspencer> witt the current media player no gestures are planned
<bspencer> they didn't work with the current navigation though
<kyleN> (maybe not scale)
<bspencer> touch zoom, panning, etc.
<bspencer> they would just surprise the user
<patm> bspencer, who decided for panning over gestures?
<bspencer> me
<patm> our issue is the customer had this interface for 3 months then it disappeared
 * agoliveira thinks this should be done in a lower lever to be avaiable to every application.
<bspencer> patm: you could go back to pre-panning and get the code
<bspencer> I honestly found it awkward, esp when there was no visual feedback
<bspencer> you would move your finger and suddenly the picture changed 
<lool> But it's in CocoaTouch!
<patm> I understand, was there a discussion about the change?
<bspencer> :)
<bspencer> we changed it about 4 months ago or more.  Bfeore our last get together
<patm> I will have to ask the customers which they prefer now
<bspencer> patm: ok.  Let me know and we can find the previous code
<patm> bspencer, appreciate some help, thanks
<lool> patm: "We want both with a setting to switch between the two" muahahaa
<kyleN> lol w/ lool
<patm> lool, yikes
<lool> Okely; anything more on the topic?
<lool> Anybody with an additional surprize topic?
<patm> I have one
<lool> Go ahead
 * agoliveira runs away as fast as possible
<patm> who is the current contact for wifi drivers on the moblin team?
<patm> like for marvell 8686 an d8688
<mawhalen> It's Feng Tang
<lool> [topic] (patm) who is the current contact for wifi drivers on the moblin team?
<patm> mawhalen, will you be on the cal later?
<MootBot> New Topic:  (patm) who is the current contact for wifi drivers on the moblin team? 
<alek_desk> tang feng
<mawhalen> patm: I will and I had sent your previous email to Feng and just got a reply back
<alek_desk> feng.tang@intel.com
<mawhalen> We can discuss
<patm> ok we can defer until the call thanks
<mawhalen> in the next meting
<mawhalen> meeting
<patm> ok lool thanks
<lool> Okay; topic seems done
<mawhalen> lool: are you calling for opens?
<fbc> How about moblelin for xscale?
<lool> mawhalen: I'm waiting for any other topic to discuss today
<lool> fbc: See FAQ in topic
<fbc> lool, k
<agoliveira> fbc: Please, check the FAQ.
<mawhalen> lool: we should discuss PPM - patm could lead.
<mawhalen> mbbas is online
<mawhalen> sorry - mabbas
<HappyCamp_laptop> fbc did anyone mention the FAQ ;)
<lool> [topic] (mawhalen) PPM discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  (mawhalen) PPM discussion 
<bspencer> lool:  do I have to update the website, or can I just mention that both hardy and non-hardy images were broken this week but are now fixed and should be working.  <end of topic>
<lool> mawhalen: Could you introduce the topic?
<mawhalen> I was under the impression that there were opens with PPM that need to be discussed.  
<lool> bspencer: Not quite sure which website you mean?
<patm> mabbas, mawhalen there was a discussion at the last sprint...
<lool> patm: Do you have questions on ppm?
<mawhalen> patm: i can't find the minutes
<patm> and a number of actions were captured and posted to the wiki
<lool> bspencer: But sure, do update it if you like
<patm> I sent a pointer but it is on an internal shared wiki not public
<patm> the basic question is status vs that work, and the current state of the PPM
<patm> is it in use for anything in the current build, was the power button logic intergated to it?
 * lool (female voice) tuduh    FIVE
<patm> were the modularization changes to run scripts made to it?
<mabbas> do I reporta status here?
<bspencer> lool:  clever :)
<patm> mabbas, briefly then a follow up email?
<mawhalen> patm: and just caught up with email, I'll send the list to Mohamed from the wiki
<bspencer> mabbas:  we have an ongoing AR to send a status report of the week's work for mobile stuff to this list.  Then we can discuss any outstanding issues here.  But give a brief status if you want.
<mabbas> I just got a request to integrate S3 and S4 into and now in the process to add these feature
<mabbas> I have not done any thing for the power button logic intergated to it
<mabbas> Who to contact for power button?
 * lool 2 minutes to end of meeting; can't stay longer, but I'm happy to delegate
<patm> mawhalen, lets also discuss next meeting
<patm> I don't want to take over for lool
<patm> lool, can we have an action to check PPM status next meeting?
<lool> mawhalen: Can you open an item for next meeting?
<mawhalen> yes
<lool> Thanks!
<GrueMaster> Very brief update.
<GrueMaster> quick update for \sh:  wine for lpia seems to work.  System installed ie4lnx without errupting into fire and brimstone.
<GrueMaster> Haven't tested any games.
<lool> Cool
<lool> Any other topic?
<lool> Ok; thanks a lot to everybody for making it to the meeting!
<lool> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:02.
<\sh> GrueMaster_away: thx for testing...I'm trying to enable wine for lpia :)
<GrueMaster> \sh:  I'm back.  I didn't see any major issues with installing and running wine.
<GrueMaster> And I don't think it will damage any platforms.  
<inuka_desk> GrueMaster, ping
<GrueMaster> Pong
<inuka_desk> GrueMaster, have question about the mesa libs in psb Beta9, do the libglut so files need to be installed as well for the 3d driver to work correctly?
<GrueMaster> No, but I think they are modified for better performance.  I just finished rebuilding for today's hardy snapshot.  I'll test it as soon as I'm done eating and get back to you.
<inuka_desk> GrueMaster: thanks
<GrueMaster> inuka_desk:  Ping.  The only thing I see that isn't in Ubuntu by default or added by the PSB drivers is libglut.so and libGLw.so
<GrueMaster> And I don't see any performance differences with or without them.  libGL.so and libGLU.so are also different (same names), but copying all the new drivers over the top doesn't change performance of GLXGears.
<inuka_desk> GrueMaster: the mesa libs from upstream has changes to libgl1 libglu1 which seems to make performance better for gutsy. Mesa also has libglut in it was wondering if that needs to be installed over freeglut.
<GrueMaster> The hardy image I have didn't have libglut installed, and I don't see any difference with it.
<inuka_desk> GrueMaster: thanks, that answers my question.
<fetter_oml> moin moin
<GrueMaster> Anyone know what the procedure is for filing a bug?  I need to see if one is filed for changing resolutions.
<fetter_oml> im sry, no :/
<bspencer> is lool still around ?
<StevenK> It's 10 to 1 am in Paris, so doubtfully
<bspencer> yeah, but he's a crazy man
<fetter_oml> goodnight everyone (here in .de is one o clock :D )
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-03-28
<bspencer> launchpad is offline for maintenance?
<bspencer> at 5pm PDT?
<bspencer> grrrr!!!
<StevenK> It's midnight UTC, mind you
<bspencer> StevenK, hm...  Saturday or Sunday at 3am UTC might be a better time for something that is supposed to be supporting a global community
<StevenK> To be honest, do you want to start an upgrade at midnight or 3am? :-) I know which I'd prefer.
<bspencer> well, if I'm the guy doing it, I want to start at around 2pm on a sunny weekday afternoon.
<StevenK> Haha
<bspencer> and not worry if it takes a few days to finish
<bspencer> :)
<StevenK> bspencer: That raises interesting comments, like: "I can't upgrade that today. Look, it's overcast!"
<bspencer> or "I would upgrade the server, but I forgot my jacket and the server room is chilly!"
<StevenK> I've tried that at a previous job. It didn't fly. :-)
<dholbach> good morning
<MaxRide> HAHA, Found you.  =)
<MaxRide> n_n;  Celebration aside. I have a Samsung Q1 which I wanted to install Ubuntu on, is Mobile in Beta or Available at this time/
<MaxRide> u_u;  Well, Sorry about not sticking around for a reply. I'll check back at a "sane" time when people are actually awake. I'm running Ubuntu on a server, so I have to keep it shutdown at night or I can't get a wink of sleep.  =(
<fetter_oml> moin moin
<RwL> is there a moderately easy way to add and remove programs from the UME home screen?
 * fetter_oml has the same question
<lool> RwL: They need to be ported to be visible there; their .desktop file should mention Categories=Mobile
<RwL> is there a moderately easy way to add and remove programs from the UME home screen?
<RwL> oops, sorry... meant to reply to lool w/ a follow up :p
<RwL> but I think I can google it up
<RwL> what provisions, if any, are there for switching between multiple open apps on UME? If there aren't any implemented yet, are there any planned?
 * davidm is away:  
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-03-29
<vvlist> has anyone tried installing the ubuntu-mobile packages from the hardy repos?
<vvlist> because I installed -everything- in the repos, set the theme, and added a gdm entry to login and when I get to the hildon desktop there are icons but the panel is all messed up
<vvlist> does anyone know how to get the interface to look like it does on the ubuntu website? I think it's called plankton or something
<vvlist> ...the non flash interface
<vvlist> google isn't helping much
<dns53> is anyone around?
<fetter_oml> moin moin
<dns53> hello
<dns53> why is no one ever around in this channel?
<fetter_oml> im around
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-03-23
<rmacyn1> does anyone know what the default ume password is? I've tried root, ume, ubuntu....nothing !
<rmacyn1> I'm tring to ssh into my MENLO(JAX10) device
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-03-24
<sabdfl> hi folks
<sabdfl> just installed the UNR on an Acer Aspire, looks good!
<lool> sabdfl: Good to hear
<lool> There are major issues with the intel driver on some netbooks at the moment though
<sabdfl> i'll send an installation report to the list
<lool> Thanks
<sabdfl> yes, wifi is busted here :-/
<sabdfl> but i know that's a documented issue
<lool> Hmm was actually thinking of one of the other intel drivers, the video one; I had issues with not merged realtek drivers up to alpha 6, but it's ok now
<sabdfl> is it a known issue that indicator-messages is not installed?
<davmor2> sabdfl: if you rmmod acer-mwi wifi should spring into life
<lool> sabdfl: You mean the new notification system in general?
<sabdfl> davmor2: *rmmod* ?
<mdz> sabdfl: yes
<davmor2> sabdfl: you can blacklist it if it works but yes 
<mdz> see bug 319825
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 319825 in linux "acer_wmi in Jaunty on Aspire One exposes non-functional (always disabled) rfkill device" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/319825
<sabdfl> interesting hardware approach by acer
<sabdfl> lool: part of the notification system is a set of persistent indicators on the panel
<sabdfl> to handle things like "joe just IM'd me, I want to reply"
<sabdfl> we take away "buttons on notifications" but we add "persistent indicators"
<sabdfl> the indicator applet is a gnome-panel host for those persistent indicators
<lool> sabdfl: If there's no dependency between this and the alsdorf, we could include it
<sabdfl> that's installed in my image
<sabdfl> lool: there's no dependency
<sabdfl> but they should both be installed
<lool> Ok
<sabdfl> the applet is installed and on the panel (yay!)
<lool> Yeah I wondered why I couldn't do anything with it yesterday
<lool> sabdfl: So I'm adding indicator-messages, evolution-indicator, and pidgin-libnotify to the seed; thanks
<sabdfl> thanks lool, you rock
<sabdfl> is the seed also published as a task?
<lool> Yes
<lool> Task-Description: Ubuntu Netbook Remix
<lool> StevenK: ^^^ seed update
<sabdfl> looks great, i just found it as mobile-netbook-remix
<davmor2> lool: is that going to require a re-spin or will this be for after beta?
<lool> davmor2: It's for post beta
<davmor2> lool: phew
<lool> davmor2: It needs an upload of mobile-meta and a respin
<davmor2> lool: no, no after beta is fine with me :)
<lool> StevenK: I wonder whether we should be tracking changes to the desktop seeds more effectively, perhaps either by matter of bzr merges or by having a common seed just like desktop-common, but for GNOME-ish seeds
<lool> ogra: around?
<lool> ogra: mdz said your imagewriter was great and we should consider having it in universe if usb-creator support is too late; do you know how we stand with usb-creator?
<lool> ogra: (this started on #ubuntu-devel)
<ogra> lool, yes, saw that, i havent done anything with -creator
<ogra> lool, -imagewriter has a plasma frontend though (NCommander wrote it during UDS) while -creator is gnome only
<lool> ogra: I would still recommend we work on merging these relatively close tools, but for jaunty could you pick up packaging of imagewriter?  or perhaps NCommander?
<lool> (in universe is fine)
<ogra> its packaged since intrepid (the gnome part) 
<ogra> just didnt make it into the archive because pitti didnt like my dd hack 
<lool> Eh
<ogra> i *do* like it though
<lool> Well could you work on fixing that or convincing him then?
<ogra> and didnt like to change it
<ogra> i'll try
<davmor2> lool: AAO the linpus lite works in the same manner you need to press the button to wake it
<davmor2> I replied to the list but mail is in queque to be approved I must not of changed mailing address :(
<lool> davmor2: it doesn't really confirm whether it's a BIOS or userspace issue; the reverse would have proven the contrary though :)
<lool> davmor2: It could be a BIOS bug or a BIOS know or an userspace bug
<lool> It's certainly not hardware as it detects lid closure and doesn't respond to the power button as long as the lid is clsoed (for me)
<davmor2> lool: iirc you had to do the same with xp too
<lool> davmor2: That's interesting
<lool> I guess this points strongly at a BIOS bug; I wish we had tools to point these out
<davmor2> in fact if memory serves you had the flashy button on any acer you shut the lid on.  I'll double check the next time I'm in a computer shop :)
<davmor2> lool has something happened to the install icon when I installed end of last week it was in favourites
<lool> persia: ^ is this related to your recent changes?
<davmor2> lool just reading sabdfl's mail
<persia> lool, No.  The only change to casper I have pending is related to showing Install on MID, and I attempted an alternate development workflow, which ended up not being the right model.
<persia> I've not otherwise changed it for some time, and the favourites change for UNR should have been there for quite a while.
<davmor2> persia: wasn't in alpha 6 but was afterwards
<lool> davmor2: No idea then
<persia> davmor2, Right.  Ought still be there.
<lool> favorites are handled in the launcher package
<persia> No.
<davmor2> lool:  I'll take a look after
<persia> The install icon only appears in favourites because of casper hacks.
<davmor2> lool, persia: downloading now about 5mins left
<lool> I think favorites handling has changed; but there's no changelog
<davmor2> make that 4minutes
<persia> davmor2, Great.  Let me know if it isn't there, and stick casper.log in a bug.
<davmor2> persia: np's
<davmor2> transfering to usb now
<ogra> sabdfl, the new notification system has probs with the clutter based launcher (the same probs you run into if you try to run compiz with the launcher, the composite handling of clutter clashes with other systems, njpatel can surely elaborate)
<ogra> i think thats the reason why notifications are not there by default
<ogra> lool, ^^^
<ogra> (i'm only talking about notify-osd here btw ... we could probably add a gconf switch that anforces it to not run in composite mode (i.e. like it does in metacity), that should solve the probs)
<ogra> *enforces
<davmor2> sabdfl, lool, persia: The installer is it favourites next to pidgin
<davmor2> It might benefit from being to right of the pidgin rather than the left
<persia> That's where it belongs :)  Thanks for the confirmation.
<persia> The order isn't preset: it comes from the sort order of the menu entry string values.  Since "Install" is before "Pidgin", it comes to the left.
<davmor2> but I'm guessing it's cause it is in alphabetical that it is to the left
<lool> ogra: this is not about the notification bubbles
<lool> ogra: I've had this discussion with sabdfl already
<lool> ogra: It's about the message indicator in the panel
<ogra> lool, but we could make them work if notify-osd had a gconf key to switch to non-composite mode
<lool> ogra: This is not about notify-osd
<ogra> wouldnt look as pretty as composite ones, but we wouldnt lose the functionallity
<ogra> i understand that
<ogra> (thats why i added the line in brackets below :) )
<ian_brasil> is there a how to on touch screens anywhere?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-03-25
<mdz> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/2475 shows no tests so far for UNR; do you need some help?
<mdz> lool,ogra: ^^
<ogra> we surely could use help, i'm personally totally hogged by babbage testing and collecting bugs atm
<ogra> not sure about the rest of the team
<lool> mdz: This is known
<StevenK> mdz: I'll test UNR Beta when I get up.
<lool> mdz: plars worked on defining the tests
<lool> mdz: Oh wait they just showed up
<lool> mdz: Up until this morning there was no testcase at this address
<lool> It was pending a DB update by IS, and was just completed great
<lool> plars: ^
<mdz> lool: ah, yes, I saw that RT ticket get closed earlier todya
<mdz> today
<plars> lool, mdz: they are linked to empty testcases it looks like though, they need to be linked to the actual ones
<plars> either that or I need to just move the ones I wrote to the names they put there... that may be easier
<lool> I think that'll be easier
<plars> lool: I'll have that this morning
<mdz> plars,lool: please don't let that block actually doing the testing, though
<plars> mdz: of course not :)
<davmor2> mdz: As far as I know people were told to report tests against umpc for now iirc
<mdz> davmor2: I'm talking about UNR
<davmor2> mdz: Yes and umpc is being dropped so using that testcase for tracking alone I believe it's what happen last time round
<davmor2> mdz: slangasek can let you know for sure
<persia> davmor2, That's precisely the thing that's just being sorted.
<davmor2> persia: :)
<davmor2> persia: fingers crossed it will be right for RC :)
 * ogra_babbage tickles mdz and davidm from a ubiquity installed babbage board :)
<ogra> the user needs to jump through a bunch of hoops but it can be done :D
<metalman> I have a dell mini w/ dell's crappy ubuntu 8.04 custom and I need to get 8.10 on it. Would this be possible to do w/o an external CD/USB drive, just by updating the repos? It needs the lpia arch
<persia> metalman, Somewhat.  There are likely some patches in the custom version you have installed that may not be available in 8.10, so you may find that you lose as much as you gain.
<persia> You'd do better to try an 8.10 liveCD first (which you can do with a USB key using the usb-creator package, although you might have to grab a backport).
<persia> That said, yes, you could just change the repositories, and you ought see the right results.
<persia> (but you may find oddities related to the patches).
<persia> Also, the state of the packages for lpia in 8.10 was not as good as the state of the packages for i386.  
<metalman> i see
<persia> If you are replacing the provided operating system, you may also want to consider changing architectures (although that would be a reinstall).
<metalman> yeah, I basically want to completely reinstall ubuntu witha fresh 8.10. and that would tricky w/ just a repo change your saying
<metalman> might you suggest the repos to use to try an upgrade to 8.10? before I go out buying a USB drive to do the reinstall
<lool> ogra: "ubiquity installed board" + "bunch of hoops" => doesn't compute
<ogra> ubiquity installed roofts + bunch of hoops for bootloader :P
<lool> + workaround for USB
<ogra> ??
<ogra> oh, right
<ogra> workaround for syslog you mean
<lool> For USB messages in syslog; the problem is not in syslog
<persia> metalman, I really think you'd be wiser to get a USB stick (1GB or 2GB would do) to test a live 8.10 enviroment *before* you change what's already installed.
<metalman> persia: roger, thanks
<plars> metalman: for a mini, you may want to take a look at Ubuntu netbook remix
<plars> I have a mini9, and I'm running 9.04 UNR on it and am pretty happy with it
<plars> Installed around alpha5, but I've been keeping it updated
<metalman> yeah, mine's a mini 9
<metalman> the guide on ubuntumini.com says it should work using a liveusb of the standard 8.10 i386 iso
<persia> It certainly ought to do so.  Give that a shot, and see if you like it.  If you do, you can just run the install, and replace what you have.
<metalman> doh, usb-creator freezes on Starting up. any other tool for creating the live usb?
<persia> Freezes on "starting up"?
<persia> Before you select the image, etc.?
<metalman> after selecting the iso and usb drive, the Starting Up dialog comes up and freezes
<metalman> at 'installing the bootloader to /dev/sdb1'
<metalman> there were some dependcy issues when I installed usb-creator. I think it complained about syslinux and parted not being installed
<persia> metalman, Did you install those packages?
<metalman> i tried, but more complaints. installing syslinux complains there is no mtools. Then trying to install mtools it says usb-creator depends on syslinux and parted!
<metalman> very weird
<persia> You really need to install the whole set together.
<persia> I suspect that mtools installed, but that the outstanding partial install of usb-creator was still pending, and it complained.
<persia> Try installing syslinux again.
<persia> Once that works, try installing parted.
<persia> Then try usb-creator again.
<metalman> apt-get -f install syslinux gives syslinux depends on mtools
<persia> Don't be surprised if it succeeds at installing usb-creator before you tell it to do so again, just because you installed everything it needed.
<persia> Right.  try just `apt-get -f install`
<metalman> sweet
<metalman> that worked, it needed libparted also :)
<persia> Cool.  does it work now?
<metalman> woot!
<metalman> Copying files...
<metalman> thanks persia
<persia> Excellent.
<ian_brasil> metalman: you could try xfce ..it runs great but it is a pig to install as you cannot see any of the buttons and have to install from memory
<persia> ian_brasil, The Xubuntu livecd doesn't work on the Mini 9?
<ian_brasil> persia: on an acer aspire no
 * ian_brasil missed the part about the Mini 9
<persia> ian_brasil, That's an annoying bug, and probably deserves filing.
<persia> I suspect it's fixable, although I don't know anywhere near enough about either Xubuntu or video drivers to suggest how.
<metalman> lookks like its booting successfully from the 8.10 usb
<metalman> a general ubuntu question: which keyboard layout will give me key combos for international chars, like Ã©, Ã±, etc.
<metalman> plars: do you know which keyboard layout will work for that on the mini9?
<metalman> i couldn't get those chars workin with dell's 8.04
<plars> metalman: I've only used the default layout, but I don't use international chars
<plars> metalman: In the install, when you choose keyboard layout, you should be able to test it
<ian_brasil> persia: its only annoying if you have not already memorized all the install screens ;)..but anyway https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/348585
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/348585/+text)
<persia> ian_brasil, But most of us haven't :)
<metalman> hmm, dunno which key would be altgr on this keyboard
<metalman> none works
<persia> Generally it's right alt, but the keyboard might need to define it.
<metalman> yeah the right alt on this mini9 doesn't do anything, ha
<persia> ian_brasil, It's probably a good idea to specify which daily image (e.g. Today's date), and what hardware.  It must work for someone, or it wouldn't be passing the install tests for beta.
<ian_brasil> persia:ok
<persia> Oh, and by "what hardware", I mean 1) the model number and 2) if you have it, the video adaptor model.
<metalman> will the netbook remix generally be faster?
<persia> It's just a different selection of applications.  Whether it's faster really depends on your hardware, and work practices.
<ogra> and the fuel you use :)
<persia> ian_brasil, Might your Xubuntu install issue be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/325958 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 325958 in ubiquity "Jaunty Alpha 4: Ubiquity windows does not fit on 1024x600 screen" [High,Triaged]
<metalman> thanks for your help, persia and others, the 8.10 install went well
<persia> metalman, Good to hear.  Hope you like it.
<ian_brasil> persia: yes that is it..i marked #325958 as a duplicate
<ian_brasil> or rather marked #348585 as a duplicate of #325958
<persia> ian_brasil, Cool.  One of the Xubuntu folk thought it might be, and recommended using the alternate installer for Ubuntu on such a screen.
<persia> heh.  Yeah.  Best to preserve that detailed discussion :)
<aholler> hi, just a quick question, has already anyone had the idea to place the icons on the right side of the launcher on the right side of the icon-text? That was first thing which has come into my mind when I saw a screen shot of the netbook-launcher.
<aholler> might be tricky because I assume this would be require a non-standard-widget, but I think it would be worth the effort. imho at least for the look and feel ;)
<Leon_Nardella> Hello. Is there a channel specific to the Netbook Remix?
<rzr> Leon_Nardella: never heard about one
<rzr> checked the wiki ?
<Leon_Nardella> Sure.
<rzr> btw how fast does unr boot on eee700 ?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-03-26
<rzr> hi
<rzr> are u following moblin ?
<mdz> lool:  should I open a bug about the hibernate thing? or is it already fixed?
<lool> mdz: It's uploaded in the unapproved queue
<lool> I feel really bad that it's the first thing I suspected and I didn't believe it and went on for the crazy options, pff
<lool> at least I walked thru the GPM code a little
<ogra> doesnt gpm look for a new maintainer ? :)
<mdz> lool: thanks
<hggdh> hello folks
<hggdh> I have just emailed davidm with a question, then this channel 1was brought to my attention...
<hggdh> there is a new effort on Evolution upstream to provide a netbook email client -- http://blogs.gnome.org/sragavan/2009/03/18/announcing-anjal-the-new-mail-for-netbooks/
<hggdh> I packages the basic pre-reqs for Jaunty, and would like to know if they could be published under the M-T PPA (currently they are published under my own PPA)
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-03-27
<davmor2> lool: I've been thinking about what sabdfl was saying about the installer not being obvious.  Is there not a way to make it's icon larger than the others, so it's more obvious?
<lool> davmor2: Not that I know of, this would need a new feature; you should bring it up with UNR folks
<lool> njpatel: ^
<lool> StevenK: ^
<lool> bfiller isn't around yet (too early on east coast)
<njpatel> lool: davmor2: yes, that would be a new feature
<njpatel> (and not an easy one atm)
<davmor2> njpatel: Just thinking out aloud 
<gywst> any ubuntu netbook docs for n00bs?
<njpatel> davmor2: sure, and it's appreciated :) 
<davmor2> njpatel: out of interest why do you have xournal and gedit in unr.  xournal I'm guessing is a touch screen app which doesn't work with a touch pad so kinda make it useless on netbooks
<lool> njpatel: What about the Quit... entry?  I know it isn't there in UNR 1, but it would seem like a nice place to hook install   O:-)
<davmor2> only spoted post beta
<lool> err s/UNR 1/UNR +1
<lool> gywst: What topic?  check help.ubuntu.com perhaps?
<davmor2> lool: have the whole of the top bar as install :)
<njpatel> lool: do you mean above the quit.. button?
<njpatel> lool:  can the live-cd have a different gconf set-up than the normal install?
<njpatel> (i may have a crafty plan)
<persia> njpatel, It certainly can.  The fact that "Install" appears in Favorites at all is part of the live CD hacks.
<lool> njpatel: yes
<lool> The only thing I fear is UI freeze
<davmor2> lool: If it makes it more obvious on how to install I'm sure it will get granted all be it kickin' and screamin'
<lool> njpatel: Any idea why update-manager isn't maximized?  wrong window type?
<lool> njpatel: Cause after alt-F10 it looks decent
<lool> even on a tiny screen
<njpatel> lool: it's probably in maximus's exception list
<lool> njpatel: Ok; it's not along totem and cheese in the gconf overrides though
<njpatel> lool: maximus has an in-built exception list 
<lool> Aha
<njpatel> lool: which probably needs to be transferred to gconf
<njpatel> :-/
<njpatel> it worked for oem, but I think we get bitten by it in normal installs
<lool> njpatel: If you can quickly confirm that this exception isn't needed anymore, or if there's another reason to blacklist it that I should now about, I'm happy to hear
<lool> normal installs?
<njpatel> normal installs != intrepid/jaunty installs
<njpatel> oem images
<njpatel> lool: does update-manager look/work okay when maximised?
<njpatel> lool: I think I should make a default_exceptions gconf key which has those apps in the maximus schema, and then users at least have the option to remove those apps that they want maximised
<njpatel> the current way sucks for users
<lool> njpatel: sorry was in meeting
<njpatel> np 
<lool> njpatel: update-manager looks ok when maximized here, perhaps it's best if you confirm yourself though
<lool> njpatel: nothing urgent however
<lool> njpatel: it's just that your eye is trained to what could go wrong  ;-)
<njpatel> will do :)
<lool> njpatel: I think gconf keys are nice for customizations like OEM versus Ubuntu, but we should avoid a plethora of keys for end users
<lool> But in this case it sounds good to have one
<njpatel> lool: i agree, but I think it works for this issue
<lool> Yeah
<njpatel> cool, I'll add it to my todo list
<lool> njpatel: thanks a lot
<njpatel> np, and btw, thanks for the triaging help on the UNR bugs, it's appreciated 
<lool> Oh I'm not really triaging, just giving a hand on issues I can solve quickly / easily
<njpatel> either way, it helps me out :)
<lool> njpatel: apw's kernel fixes the eeepc slowness for me
<lool> plars: ^
<plars> lool: cool
<njpatel> lool: awesome, I was going to try it out later on today too
<plars> lool: I thought I just saw a post in that bug from someone else saying it didn't work though
<plars> lool: I may have misread it though... just caught a quick glance from email while I was working on something else
<lool> plars: That other person mentions improvement but has to disable a specific feature which I don't about
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-03-28
<kpok> ff
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-03-29
<dublin> is there a torrent for the new jaunty beta fir mid/lpia?
<dublin> any torrents for the new 9.04 (jaunty) beta for mid/lpia?
<ToHellWithGA> i'm trying to figure out which ubuntu variant my grandmother should be using on her very old dell laptop
<ToHellWithGA> i thought the netbook thing looked like a good plan because of the low footprint then read that it has a minimum processor of intel atom
<ToHellWithGA> her laptop has a 266MHz Pentium II
<ToHellWithGA> 3.6GB hard drive :-) and nearly 3 hours of battery life
<lool> ToHellWithGA: i386 version should just work
<lool> ToHellWithGA: But you do need 3D support
<ToHellWithGA> lool: i dunno if i'm going to have that.  the computer shipped with windows 95
<ToHellWithGA> it barely played 3d games after coaxing
<ToHellWithGA> i guess i'll find out if the old chipset has 3d drivers :)
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-03-29
<Invisrc> hey anyone here
<mkarnicki> yeah, me :D
<mkarnicki> but i was also waiting for 'somebody' - it's rather silent here
<mkarnicki> so i'm idleing to see any discussions :)
<Invisrc> hey
<awolfson> lool, Hi. I followed instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Ports and created a full system emulation environment. What is the command to boot from created hda disk
<lool> awolfson: Did it install a kernel?
<lool> awolfson: Easiest: drop -initrd and add root=/dev/sda or sda1 do your -append
<awolfson> Installation finished, but how can I check?
<lool> awolfson: Most correct: write a script which loop-mounts the disk, copies the installed kernel and initrd out of it into the host, umounts, and boots this
<awolfson> lool, how boot command looks like, I did not find it in that wiki
<lool> awolfson: e.g. qemu-system-arm -M versatilepb -m 256 -cpu cortex-a8 -kernel vmlinuz -hda sda.qcow2 -append "mem=256M root=/dev/sda1"
<lool> awolfson: What's missing from the landscape here is a means to abstract this away from the user; that mean could be a wrapper script as I mention earlier, but you can try the above approach which should work but wont allow you to use an initrd for instance
<awolfson>  qemu-system-arm -boot -M versatilepb -m 256 -cpu cortex-a8 -kernel EXTRACTED_KERNEL -initrd EXTRACTED_INITRD -hda sda.qcow2 -append "root=/dev/sda1 mem=256M"
<awolfson> lool, is it correct?
<lool> awolfson: That looks correct, yes; if you're using an initrd you can also use a more clever root=
<lool> awolfson: For instance, one can use UUIDs in root= for initrd boots, so you could use a fixed string referencing your root fs without mentionning the hardware device (sda)
<lool> awolfson: If you develop such a script, or want help developing one, I'm happy to assist
<lool> One way to mount partitioned devices is with losetup + kpartx
<lool> awolfson: There's also one completely different approach which is related to kexec, but that's another story
<awolfson> lool, how about GUI wrappers around QEMU - are they any good?
<lool> awolfson: But first, you should test with the manual command-line
<lool> awolfson: GUI is another topic; the way I'd propose to solve the GUI problem is by integrating the boot script into libvirt; libvirt allows you to define new types of virtual machines (e.g. "QEMU ARM machine") and how to boot them
<lool> awolfson: So we could add a libvirt config for this, and use the libvirt GUI tools (virt-viewer)
<awolfson> lool, Unfortuntely I don't know anything about libvirt :(
<lool> awolfson: So to recap, what I'd do if I were you now: a) test manually
<lool> b) automate extraction
<lool> c) look into libvirt integration
<lool> that's by increasing order of complexity
<lool> awolfson: It's ok, libvirt is what we use for all Ubuntu vms and containers stuff, it's well documented and in use in e.g. UEC
<lool> awolfson: But libvirt is quite high level still; first make sure things work for you   :-)
<awolfson> lool, OK give me couple of hours, I need to finish something and will give a,b,c a try
<lool> awolfson: Great; ttyl
<awolfson> lool, One more question - do I need "-boot" in the command?
<lool> awolfson: No
<lool> awolfson: it starts the kernel when you pass -kernel
<lool> awolfson: -boot is for e.g. when you have a memory holder where the emulated BIOS can read your boot device i
<lool> id
<awolfson> lool, System boots up to the login: prompt. I created user ubuntu, passwd ubuntu user. It accepts it but just ends up with new login prompt
<awolfson> lool, I tried to loop mount sda.qcow2 but was not able to. fdisk -l sda.qcow2 reports no partition table. I guess it is normal
<lool> awolfson: Oh right, you're using a .qcow2, that's a bit more complex
<lool> awolfson: I didn't think of that when advising loop mounting
<lool> awolfson: So what's the error when you're logging in with ubuntu/ubuntu?
<lool> awolfson: Concerning loop-mounting, there are two ways: either use qemu-nbd (which will serve your QEMU disk image files -- whatever the format -- as nbd devices you can mount), or convert your image to raw (with qemu-img for instance0
<awolfson> lool, there is no error it just goes back to login: after printing welcome message
<lool> awolfson: Problem of raw images is that they take a lot of space
<lool> awolfson: Something must be failing then
<lool> awolfson: You could pass "init=/bin/sh" on the -append line and debug from there
<awolfson> I can boot in single user mode by adding single to -append
<lool> awolfson: e.g. you could run "su - ubuntu" or check the system log from the shell it spawns
<awolfson> I tried it but there was nothing special in the log
<lool> awolfson: Did you check auth.log?
<lool> awolfson: You could try su - ubuntu, or even running a getty
<awolfson> lool, authentication failure for user ubuntu :(
<lool> awolfson: Are you sure you didn't mistype the password?
<lool> awolfson: Try changing it
<lool> (perhaps you mistyped it during install that is)
<awolfson> lool, I tried misstype the passwd - i am getting error message in that case. I am adduser from the root shell now
<awolfson> lool, I added ubuntu1 passwd ubuntu1 from the root shell - it goes to the login loop again
<awolfson> lool, You just install it like it is instructed in a wiki page and it worked? Right?
<lool> awolfson: I didn't actually try a full install, but that should work yes
<lool> awolfson: if it doesn't it's a bug, but it might not be trivial to debug remotely
<lool> awolfson: So if it says authentication failure, it sounds like a PAM-level issue; you could dive into PAM debug options
<awolfson> lool, BTW among other things, however unlikely - this is a network install - may be something wrong in initrd image
<awolfson> lool, I will return to it in couple of hours. I have single user console so it is probably not specifc to QEMU at that point
<lool> Ok
<lool> awolfson: If all else fails, upload your .qcow2 somewhere and I could take a look
<awolfson> lool, also I found how to mount qcow2 image (So far did not work for me) so may be I shall start from extracting initrd and kernel?
<awolfson> lool, qcow2 is 1.1G I could enable remote desktop on my laptop if necessary
<lool> awolfson: As you wish, but I'm at a customer site today and tomorrow, then hotel, then on leave
<lool> so hard for me to stay on line
 * lool disappears
<awolfson> lool, OK i brb
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-03-30
<lifeless> how old is fedora 10 ? [asking in the context of gma500 support - there is a new intel release of the IEGD]
<GrueMaster> lifeless: Fedora 10 is using the 2.6.27 kernel.  Last time I worked with the PSB drivers, they wouldn't build on kernels >2.6.28 due to the major changes to the drm core (Tungsten forked the driver back in Fedora Core 6).
<lifeless> GrueMaster: the kernel drivers are easy to patch, its the X blob thats a problem
