#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-30
<rick_h> gah, OLF talk submissions are open. /me ponders
<rick_h> ok, now that the boy is in bed I get the honor of going out and shoveling the driveway, yay me
<snap-l> w00t
<snap-l> Did that already
<snap-l> http://www.cafepress.com/soullesstees.440929848
<brousch> kind of dark outside
<tjagoda> Indeed, shovel during day!
<tjagoda> 15:30 UTC/GMT is 10:30AM our time, yes?
<tjagoda> I assume that my brain can do math
<tjagoda> But
<tjagoda> You know what they say about those assumptions.
<rick_h> add 5 hours
<rick_h> so yea, you're right
<tjagoda> That is when my brief phone call from Matt is
<rick_h> cool, matt is a good guy
<tjagoda> Hopefully
<tjagoda> He does not tell me my ambitions are larger than the scope of the role
<snap-l> Phew
<snap-l> Just finished up the dishes
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> I <3 BeautifulStoneSoup
<snap-l> forgot that audacity uses XML files for the .aup file
<snap-l> and am using that to figure out track starts
<rick_h> Stone?
<rick_h> http://www.quora.com/Engineering-Management/Why-are-software-development-task-estimations-regularly-off-by-a-factor-of-2-3
<rick_h> http://abstrusegoose.com/432
<rick_h> good day for code jokes
<snap-l> BeautifulStoneSoup is the XML component for BeautifulSoup
<rick_h> oh, cool. Never used anything but BS
<brousch> i believe that
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, it knocks the pants off of anthing else I've used for parsing XML
<rick_h> http://lxml.de/ is what I usually use for that when I have to
<brousch> grpug folks love lxml
<rick_h> yea, it's got C extensions, fast, and supports more xml bits than others though I don't normally need xpath and all taht
<brousch> Adam Williams loves xml, and he loves lxml
<rick_h> there's always one nut :P
<Raggs> how difucult is it to remove kubuntu desktop once an alternative is installed?
<mydogsnameisrudy> http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purekde
<Raggs> close, but that [age shows how to remove everything but kde
<mydogsnameisrudy> oh sorry ;)
<brousch> pretty much impossible
<mydogsnameisrudy> i see that no commands for that?
<brousch> you can sudo apt-get remove --purge kubuntu-desktop
<brousch> but that doesn't really remove anything
<Raggs> ok
<Raggs> n
<mydogsnameisrudy> so looks like a reload of ubuntu
<brousch> it doesn't hurt anything to leave it in
<rick_h> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/522/ in case you don't follow the CHC mailing list
<snap-l> rick_h: Was that the show and tell idea?
<rick_h> snap-l: yea
<snap-l> Yeah, that looks interesting
<snap-l> Maybe we could incorporate that into the long-edition?
<rick_h> I can't decide. On the one hand, sure cool to see real things
<rick_h> on the other, it's not like showing bookie will do me a ton of good, these guys are already doing their own things
<rick_h> and how often is the plan to do this, I'll be showing the same thing for the last year lol
<snap-l> WEll, how much of it is encouragement, and how much of it is navelgazing
<rick_h> right
<snap-l> I think it's good to show your stuff when you think it's ready
<rick_h> yea, definitely
<rick_h> but that's what I mean I wonder the purpose
<snap-l> and maybe it's encouraging to have some arbitrary deadline so you have something to work towars.
<rick_h> if it's for design idea/help? Just to show/motivate others?
<rick_h> is it just to put the name out there and try to get local business peeps to show off to?
<snap-l> bingo.
<snap-l> Sounds like VC fodder. ;)
<rick_h> which might be unfair to say :)
<brousch> but all the business peeps would have to show something too
<rick_h> but it has that potential
<brousch> the "must show" requirement to attend will turn off many people
<rick_h> brousch: yea, definitely
<brousch> a lot of people
<rick_h> but helps prevent a meeting of 10 people where only one guy gets up to show something
<rick_h> I can understand it
<snap-l> http://justinsomnia.org/2011/03/why-does-that-qr-code-take-me-to-justinsomnia-org/ <- Bwahahaha
<rick_h> widox: http://element34.ca/blog/introducing-phpwebdriver
<rick_h> O dpm
<rick_h> I don't know why that strikes me as so wrong...php webdriver ugh
<rick_h> and ignore the Odpm, that's what happens at a standing desk when you step away and come back to the keyboard just off a key
<snap-l> oson?
<snap-l> rick_h: What's so wrong about a PHP web driver?
<rick_h> I don't know, it just irks...I guess it's like php shell scripting is what is comes down to
<snap-l> Though PHP should get something like injection testing. ;)
<rick_h> even when I did php work, using it so script shell stuff was something that set my teeth on edge
<snap-l> "Your code has 3,203 SQL injection attacks"
<rick_h>  /so/to
<brousch> there are php/gtk bindings
<brousch> try to beat that level of wrongness
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, I've seen some of those. It does tend to grate
<snap-l> brousch: One could argue that Javascript bindings for GTK wouold be just as bad, were it not for Javascript's prominence on the server side
<snap-l> http://zetcode.com/gui/javascriptgtktutorial/introduction/
<ColonelPanic001> my god, it's nearly February and I still can't register for Penguicon. For a tech-related con, you'd think it was being run by my technophobic grandmother.
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Yeah, there have been some issues
<rick_h> snap-l: come on, I thought Gnome Shell was all JS
<rick_h> JS to rule them all!
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: every year is like this, though.
<snap-l> It's like I've woken up in bizarro world.
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: I liken it to a racecar, on fire, skidding to the finish line
<snap-l> Somehow it manages to get 1st place, and still be awesome
<snap-l> but damned if I'd drive it like that
<ColonelPanic001> "You should go to Penguicon, random person!" "Yeah? What's going on there this year?"  "I have no f'ing idea! And I won't until the week of the event!"
<snap-l> It's kinda like the Mystery Dum Dum Sucker
<ColonelPanic001> maybe someone can do a presentation on "How to install a damn wordpress site"
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Actually, waldo323 is working on it
<ColonelPanic001> "lol are custom see-are-m dont work"
<snap-l> It's not quite as simple as you might imagine
<ColonelPanic001> "THEN JUST INSTALL WORDPRESS OR SOMETHING IT'S JUST A STATIC SITE ANYWAY"
<snap-l> Be nice.
<ColonelPanic001> :\
<snap-l> I'm sure the adage of "patches welcome" would apply.
<ColonelPanic001> I would gladly install wordpress for them.
<brousch> ooooooh, ColonelPanic001, benevolent leader snap-l is gonna CoC-slap you!
<ColonelPanic001> haha
<ColonelPanic001> It won't be too traumatizing. I've seen the CoC before. :(
<snap-l> Nah, not going that far
<ColonelPanic001> It can't be too bad. I go back every year.
<ColonelPanic001> it'd just be nice to know, once, what it is I'm registering for.
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> It's a surprise. :)
<rick_h> the problem isn't that you don't know what you're registering for, it's that you do know, and it's not the talks
<snap-l> I don't think half of the presenters know they're presenting yet
<snap-l> I mean, rick_h doesn't know he's doing some python presentation at Penguicon yet.
<brousch> they should just make it a barcamp
<ColonelPanic001> "Surprise! The only things on the schedule are stuff about chakras and auras!"
<rick_h> snap-l doesn't know I'm not going yet
<rick_h> to the coffee shop!
<snap-l> rick_h doesn't know that while he thinks he's not going, he's still going
<rick_h> nananananananananana code-man!
<ColonelPanic001> any of you losers on Diaspora?
<brousch> all of us!
<brousch> that's where all of the actual useful content is
<ColonelPanic001> I'm going to add Craig and then talk about nothing but whining about Penguicon
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: I deleted my Diaspora account
<ColonelPanic001> it got too mainstream
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> No, unfortunately it didn't really pan out for me
<brousch> more popular than identica
<snap-l> Relaly?
<snap-l> brousch: POint me to something useful on diaspora
<brousch> i can't. you deleted your account
<ColonelPanic001> can't you...
<snap-l> Feh
<ColonelPanic001> damnit brousch
<ColonelPanic001> I was in the middle of saying that
<snap-l> brousch: I think you're confusing Diaspora with Google Plus
<snap-l> It's understandable, though
<snap-l> http://www.gizmag.com/diaspora-google-plus-resemblance/20638/
<rick_h> never signed up
 * snap-l is addicted to Keurig.
<rick_h> snap-l: hah, yea I used to use the mocha cups when in the office there
<brousch> i assumed keurig was a rock band of some sort
<rick_h> heh, no the famous k-cups
<rick_h> everyone is making coffee in the k-cups format these days
<rick_h> it's the perfect example of the razor/razor blades == $$
<brousch> blah, i use a drip machine, bring it in a thermos
<ColonelPanic001> k-cups?
<rick_h> short for keurig
<rick_h> http://www.keurig.com/shop/k-cups/all-k-cups
<rick_h> basically single serve cups of all kinds of variety
<rick_h> so you stick it in, brew a cup of coffee, toss the cup
<brousch> i have used those in hotels
<rick_h> morpace has them around the office with some certains flavors
<rick_h> I used to bring in my own
<brousch> i like using the machine
<rick_h> yea, it's a pretty clean/quick way to go but the cost of the cups as a per-serving thing is a bit nuts vs a bag of beans that can last a month
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, was going to say
<ColonelPanic001> sounds great for vareity, but wasteful
<rick_h> yea
<snap-l> Well, it's actually pretty effective for a quick cuppa-joe
<snap-l> instead of trusting a pot indeterminate-origin coffee.
<rick_h> yea, it's very user friendly. That whole convience thing
<rick_h> no pot to clean out
<rick_h> not the best tasting, but passes
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, that part sounds good
<brousch> you need a syringe to inject other things into the cartridge before brewing
<ColonelPanic001> but, extra packaging, etc, etc, as opposed to the "usual" way
<rick_h> ColonelPanic001: right
<ColonelPanic001> it would be *awesome*, though, for just getting a massive vareity of stuff to try
<brousch> well if the packaging is all recyclable or biodegradable, who cares?
<ColonelPanic001> didn't notice right away, they have tea, coffee, etc
<ColonelPanic001> brousch: still energy used to make it, and I doubt it is. Maybe though, I didn't look
<snap-l> They're decidedly not-green
<brousch> i just had a hippie idea. sell a kit to turn the used cartridges into tiny desk plants
<ColonelPanic001> brousch: I like it
<brousch> a little packet of dirt to mix with the grounds and a seed or two
<ColonelPanic001> someone get the patent office in here
<snap-l> Save for the hole at the bottom, that's a brilliant idea
<snap-l> and the filter media
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: tape or something, maybe?
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Have you ever tried taping a leak?
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, maybe just make the cup so that's easy to remove
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: yeah, thoguht that as I typed it
<snap-l> ;)
<ColonelPanic001> maybe special tape
<ColonelPanic001> magic tape
<brousch> it needs drainage
<brousch> i'll have to look at some cartridges. i think they use it at The Factory coworking place so maybe i can get some today
<ColonelPanic001> maybe the box they come in has a wax coating, and is shaped to hold the cups with a small gap below the cup
<ColonelPanic001> set cup in there, can drain freely into that
<ColonelPanic001> now I'm craving french vanilla cappuccino
<ColonelPanic001> >:-|
<rick_h> having a vanilla sugar free latte atm :)
<brousch> i have switched to soy in my fru-fru coffees
<brousch> good stuff
<ColonelPanic001> except for rare exceptions, the only coffee I drink is from a local coffeeshop. I rarely "drink coffee" in the usual sense, like at work or home or whatever
<ColonelPanic001> and even then it's almost always french vanilla cappuccino, etc. Not just "coffee"
<rick_h> ColonelPanic001: +1
<rick_h> I was a mocha guy for a long time but been hunting tasty lower calorie versions of coffee that's not real coffee
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, that keeps me from drinkning it much
<ColonelPanic001> never had mocha
<ColonelPanic001> I haven't been very adventerous
<rick_h> that's where I found coffee. This place in Flint had a great mocha. whip cream + shaved choc on top
<rick_h> was almost a hot sundae
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<brousch> i drink black decaf coffee 4-5 days a week and biggby decaf soy nutty buddy 1-2
<snap-l> Bah, decaf is for wimps
 * snap-l loves dark coffeee
<rick_h> yea, don't get the point of decaf
<snap-l> It's like non-alcoholic beer
<rick_h> snap-l: thought of you the other day, caribou was giving away samples of their eclipse stuff
<ColonelPanic001> I like french vanilla cappuccino, but sometimes I won't want to be up until 3am. Behold, decaf
<ColonelPanic001> :)
<rick_h> yea, if I go for that second coffee at CHC it goes decaf
<rick_h> but only then
<ColonelPanic001> I only get one at all decaf
<ColonelPanic001> or I'll be up until morning
<ColonelPanic001> damnit. I need to do something about the light in here
<brousch> caffeine gives me angina, so i drink decaf
<ColonelPanic001> it is beyond me why people would just turn on lights on their desk in a overly bright office where the glare already annoys me
<ColonelPanic001> but no, coworker comes in, turns on the under-shelf lights every morning
<ColonelPanic001> THE MONITORS LIGHT UP ON THEIR OWN, SMARTY
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, I want to try that
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, I fear for that day
<snap-l> hypertension, etc.
<brousch> i overdid it for a while, super biggby red-eyes with extra shot a couple of times a week. that's 4 shots of espresso in a 24oz coffee. i think i broke something.
<brousch> something like 500mg of caffeine
<rick_h> ouch
<ColonelPanic001> I just seem to be fairly sensitive to caffeine. If I drink a 20oz of Pepsi in the evening, even just 7pm or so, I'll be up until 3am without even realizing it
<rick_h> I need ot start backing down. I've noticed that for the last few weeks I've gotten a coffee every day of the week here
<rick_h> man, glad I'm not that bad
<ColonelPanic001> I have a tendancy to stay up late anyway, but it makes it much worse
<rick_h> yea, was proud of myself. Normally without wifely supervision I end up awake hacking at 3am
<rick_h> but I was in bed by 11 each night yay!
<rick_h> of course I've been sick so that helped
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<ColonelPanic001> my girlfriend used to complain, now it's just understood when she goes to bed at 9pm, and I say "I'll be right there in a bit", I mean "like hell, I'll be there in a couple of hours"
<rick_h> ll
<rick_h> funny thing is that when she's here, I end up in bed before her
<rick_h> it's a pure mental thing, strange
<snap-l> JoDee's found out that "in a bit" means anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour
<snap-l> <- bad boy
<ColonelPanic001> it's partially her fault anyway, going to bed at 9pm. I'm not 12.
<snap-l> Yeah, I can't go to bed that early.
<snap-l> Oh, 3.0 release of Virtualenv wrapper!
<rick_h> heh
<snap-l> How did we ever do development before virtual machines?
<snap-l> Man, I love being able to have a machine that I can just put up and rip apart
<snap-l> and if things go pear-shaped, I can tear it down without a care in the world.
<brousch> we did it right the first time instead of just trying it out
<rick_h> hah, "we were just better"
<snap-l> pffft
<snap-l> I think we just did it on production, and hoped to God it didn't blow up
<snap-l> If you were lucky, you got something called "Staging"
<_stink_> sadly.... that is still done
<brousch> i was gonna say, i still do that
<snap-l> shame
<brousch> wait, i have a development copy of my access db
<brousch> but foxpro changes happen in production because it's commercial software
<snap-l> Ugh
<snap-l> See, that pisses me off
<snap-l> not that you're doing the best you can
<brousch> all i can do is wreck reports though
<brousch> unless i got really stupid
<snap-l> but that type of software is licensed in such a way that you have to do something sub-optimal
<brousch> now that i think about it, if i really tried i could have a development VM for it
<snap-l> Go forth, then
<brousch> but every time i want to change a report i have to kick every one out, copy GB of files to the dev, let everyone back in, muck around in dev, kick everyone out, make the changes, let everyone back in
<_stink_> ew
<tjagoda> Ahoy
<brousch> yaar
<Wolfger> avast
<tjagoda> The interview seemed to go well.
<tjagoda> Definitely not just a dumb helpdesk position, which is awesome.
<Wolfger> You got an interview for Canonical? Awesome! I'm jealous.
<rick_h> tjagoda: awesome
<snap-l>  http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/humor/ATT_Copyright_true.html
<tjagoda> wolfger: just a short 10 minute thing.  I'm supposed to hear in 3 or so days if I get further.
<snap-l>  Huh, hadn't really dug into what Hip Hop (the PHP complier) is
<snap-l> (was referenced in an article)
<rick_h> hip hop == "we chose php for our company and come hell our high water we're going to keep using PHP for our code...scale baby scale!"
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> That's a pretty fair assessment
<rick_h> heh, "stupid twitter moving crap to the JVM...should have just hired some compiler nerds to make a super ruby->C compiler so that they could just make ruby faster
<greg-g> snap-l: :) thanks for that AT&T/bin/true link
<jrwren> that is true.
<jrwren> objectiveC is evidence that compiled ruby could be FAST
<jrwren> for really fast php, see phlanger :o
<snap-l> greg-g: You're welcome. :)
<rick_h> I'm missing the object-c/ruby connection?
<snap-l> rick_h: I'm glad I'm not the only one
<Blazeix> maybe he's referring to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacRuby
<rick_h> ah interesting
<rick_h> not looked at that much, heard macruby but figured it was like mac-vim
<rick_h> ruby with some mac bindings
<rick_h> then again I guess I knew ironruby wasn't ruby + windows apis so I'm a moron
<snap-l> Man, all of these trans-compiled languages. ;)
<snap-l> rick_h: I think you can be forgiven since iron* was targeted to the .net vm
<snap-l> I wouldn't have guessed that objective C would be a stepping point for Ruby to Mac.
<jrwren> no, not at all.
<jrwren> objc/ruby connection because they are VERY similar languages, that is all.
<jrwren> all I mean is that given how similar objc is to ruby, there is very little reason for objc to be so fast, and ruby to be slow.
<rick_h> I've not looked at a ton of ObjC but I wouldn't have considered them similar
<jrwren> certainly not syntax wise, but lang wise it is very similar
<jrwren> very similar smalltalk inspired object model
<snap-l> jrwren: Isn't objc compiled?
<rick_h> gotcha, yea guess as I've never used ObjC I can't really compare at more than superficial levels
<jrwren> yes, objc is compiled. that is part of my point. compile ruby. any code that isn't in exec() should compile just fine
<snap-l> jrwren: But then you can't monkey-patch. ;)
<jrwren> yes you can :p
<jrwren> in fact objc formalizes it. its call protocols
<jrwren> err.
<jrwren> sorry, categories
<jrwren> but you don't have to formalize it.
<jrwren> objc even lets you do method missing :p
<jrwren> its very rubylike AFAICT
<snap-l> But then if they make it fast, we'll have to start taking it seriously.
<jrwren> it would be unwise to not take it seriously, as is.
<snap-l> truth
<jrwren> I mean... if google can make JS as fast as V8 makes it... no reason ruby can't be just as fast.
<rick_h> what are we not taking seriously? I've lost track?
<snap-l> rick_h: ruby
<rick_h> oh ruby, I keep poking at ruby then realize I can do it in python
<snap-l> 3.2.1.
<snap-l> Man, wasn't even fast enough for THAT. :)
<rick_h> :P
<jrwren> 3.2.1? rails?
<jrwren> you can do anything in python
<jrwren> but I still use other stuff
<rick_h> ask diana about how I was the typing champion
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, definitely, I use JS/node for simple socket servers
<rick_h> and php when I have to
<rick_h> and wheee make files
<rick_h> so bash
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> wait, doesn't make just use whatever shell is /bin/sh?  link to zsh FTW!
<rick_h> but yea, I've not completed one ruby thing that wasn't just some script for checking battery levels/etc
<rick_h> heh, I can't assume that on the prod boxes
<rick_h> no zsh ootb with Ubuntu like RH
<rick_h> :(
<ColonelPanic001> :\
<jrwren> cursed production!
<brousch> rick so make the first part of every script an installer for zsh
<snap-l> rick_h: Oh, it's already come up
<rick_h> snap-l: what's come up?
<rick_h> zsh?
<rick_h> poor zsh has no champion any more at morpace now
<snap-l> rick_h: No, the fact that you bested the resident typing champion
<rick_h> oh heh :)
<snap-l> Apparently I'm failing her as a buddy if I can't make keyboards cry
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h> lol, you went clicky right? takes time to build up those finger muscles
<snap-l> Nah, I went soft.
<snap-l> I have a quiet keyboard.
<snap-l> Logitech K520
<snap-l> Comes with a M310 mouse
<jrwren> no Cherry MX?
<jrwren> ive decided ALPS switches are not good enough. i want Cherry MX
<snap-l> jrwren: Not to my knowledge.
<snap-l> Though I might get something different in the near future
<snap-l> this was a nice $50 combo
<snap-l> And honestly, it was the least offensive of the keyboards that I tried
<snap-l> save for the $100 models that felt only a little bit better
<snap-l> but sadly, none of them have the nice tactile feel of my mac keyboard.
<rick_h> jrwren: careful, MX feel strange. They're not like the buckling springs
<rick_h> jrwren: I've got a pair of cherry mx, one blue and one brown
<snap-l> If they didn't sound like a firing range, I'd love the feel of the buckling springs.
<rick_h> yea, I miss my buckling springs, I need to sneak that keyboard back from morpace
<snap-l> Which one?
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h> so I meant to let what's her name "try" it, but seems she thoght I was giving it to her
<rick_h> and I forget to clear it up before I left
<snap-l> Oh, the typing champ?
<rick_h> the person I beat at the typing thing
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> blanking on her name now
<snap-l> Good luck with that. :)
<rick_h> heh, yea I've given it up
<snap-l> She watches Dexter. I'm not trying to take thet keyboard away for anything
<rick_h> but I've been tempted to go back from cherry MX to buckling springs
<brousch> dexter is awesome
<rick_h> I REALLY wish they had buckling springs that were 10less
<rick_h> <3 the size of the 10less keyboards
<jrwren> Dexter is awesome.
<brousch> jrwren: impossible. you must contradict me
<jrwren> i cannot
<brousch> S4 was the bizomb
<tjagoda> Where do you even buy a buckling spring keyboard?
<tjagoda> There's das keyboard, but I dont think that's the fancy spring you speak of
<rick_h> http://pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=PCK&Screen=PROD&Category_Code=UltraClassic&Product_Code=UB40P4A
<rick_h> I'm getting one right now actually :)
<brousch> second hand store near a landfill in china
<rick_h> they're bought the IBM patents and are the only ones allowed to make true buckling springs
<tjagoda> Oh hello, USB
<rick_h> yep
<tjagoda> And ludicrously cheaper than http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional/
<rick_h> yep, and you get true springs
<tjagoda> Time to impulse buy
<rick_h> follow me on the impulse train!
<brousch> i'll have to think about that
<greg-g> hilarious: http://store.daskeyboard.com/Reusable-Earplugs/dp/B003ALN3QE
<rick_h> and done, will be back to true clicky end of week
<rick_h> greg-g: :) nice
<rick_h> greg-g: I have had my wife come by the office and shut the door on me before
<brousch> it's not too loud unless you can hear it over the drumming in the next room
<tjagoda> Impulse purchase complete
<tjagoda> The things I'm willing to spend $100 on...
<rick_h> tjagoda: woot! welcome to the club
<rick_h> tjagoda: careful https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7JlTF6-Yj26LsJlrHByu19MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
<rick_h> that's only half the ones in the closet :)
<tjagoda> I do not subscribe to your fruity ergonomic keyboards
<greg-g> *cough* addict *cough*
<rick_h> mmmm, a buckling spring having a baby with a MS natural...now THAT would be a keyboard
<rick_h> greg-g: everyone's got to have a hobby
<jrwren> i drove rick_h to order a new kb!
<greg-g> I have 2 friends who swear by the kenesis
<rick_h> jrwren: you bastard!
<rick_h> greg-g: man, I keep trying but I've got an older model without a key for my tiling needs
<rick_h> greg-g: it's missing the windows key which turns into my tiling controls
<rick_h> greg-g: but yea, the is sweet and every so often I try it again. It feels awesome after a bit
<greg-g> huh, intersting, didn't realize that
<greg-g> (the lack of win/super key)
<brousch> oh wow, the new unicomp is coming out in march. it will come in 8 colors, can be converted between split and classic, and will only cost $49!
<rick_h> the ones now have it
<rick_h> greg-g: I'm always tempted to try to get a new/newer one
<rick_h> I think if I had that I'd be set and would make the switch
<tjagoda> when you start buying keyboard covers, you know you're in a dark place http://pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=PCK&Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=ProtectiveCovers
<rick_h> greg-g: mine is just an old ebay auction because I can't stomach full price for those even now
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> the two friends who have them both have wrist issues
<rick_h> yea, I can see how it would help. You reallyonly move your fingers to hit nearly every key
<rick_h> it's almost strange feeling
<brousch> i move my whole hands to hit every key. never had wrist problems
<brousch> hunt-n-peck ftw!
<rick_h> right, but if you had wrist problems all that movement would hurt
<tjagoda> I think that he's saying is that he has 0 wrist articulation
<tjagoda> and that he types with forearm muscles
<tjagoda> He has some strange iron crucible which locks his wrists into rigid placement. =P
<tjagoda> Man
<jrwren> lol
<tjagoda> Should've ordered the faster shipping on this keyboard
<jrwren> anyone run chromeos on kvm?
<brousch> i ran it once on virtualbox about a year ago
<brousch> chromebook ftw
<tjagoda> One of my dual heads died over the weekend
<tjagoda> Feels like I'm computing with only one eyeball
<brousch> cross your eyes
<brousch> now you have 2 monitors again
<rick_h> heh, so helpful that brousch
<brousch> you're welcome
<tjagoda> Ordered the upclass UltraSharp 24"
<brousch> this also works on women. you can have a 3some without marital problems
<brousch> you're even more welcome
<tjagoda> I imagine she finds your cross-eyes highly attractive
<brousch> twins even
<snap-l> God, I hate MS Natural keyboards
<snap-l> And it's not that I hate MS (they make good hardware) but that whole "typing on a mountain" thing drives me insane
<rick_h> if they only had decent switches I'd still be living on those
<rick_h> they lost their way with that 4000 crappola
<tjagoda> Typing on a mountain
<tjagoda> lol
<snap-l> Computer case shows up tomorrow
<snap-l> Hah, JoDee got some Caribou Eclipse coffee for us to try out.
<brousch> does it sparkle?
<Blazeix> uhoh, just heard the DBAs yell, "WTF, A CARTESIAN JOIN??", as they're investigating a db lock that's preventing us from working.
<Blazeix> i suspect i'll soon witness a beheading.
<snap-l> That can't be good
 * snap-l is listening to Symphony No. 3 in C minor (Saint Saens)
<rick_h> Blazeix: lol, don't anger the DBAs
<tjagoda> When I hear things like "Cartesian Join," I am reminded how little I know about the inner depths of serious databasery
 * jjesse googles cartesian join
<ColonelPanic001> I keep meaning to read more on DB stuff
<ColonelPanic001> I have this "Database In Depth" book, but I mean more about using dbs than theory
<ColonelPanic001> but usually you look up books and they want to assuem you don't know what a select is
<Blazeix> here's a decent explanation on why cartesian joins are bad: http://www.rampant-books.com/t_hpsdba_77_cartesian_join_operations.htm
<Blazeix> basically when doing a cartesian join on two tables, with row counts N and M, you get N*M results.
<Blazeix> which is almost never what you want
<snap-l> That's best-case cartesian join
<ColonelPanic001> processors are too fast anyway
<Blazeix> but seriously, this db lock sucks. I can't work.
<snap-l> usually what happens is every single table in the join gets pulled several times over, and then your database goes "poof"
<snap-l> Blazeix: Oracle, or MS-SQL?
<Blazeix> ms-sql
<tjagoda> And then your DBA screams "WTF, A CARTESIAN JOIN?!"
<snap-l> Blazeix: I don't envy you right now
<Blazeix> it's actually pretty cool
<Blazeix> not t-sql in particular, but what the project is doing with it
<rick_h> oh come on, what could possibly go wrong with a little SELECT * FROM a FULL OUTER JOIN b FULL OUTER JOIN c WHERE 1?
<snap-l> Blazeix: It seemed to me like Sybase with all of the fixes
<snap-l> and a company that could actually make a go of it
<Blazeix> i'm not deep enough in DBs yet to have an opinion. my queries work and return data :)
<Blazeix> and there's a sweet enterprisey MERGE statement which is great for what I'm doing
 * snap-l wonders if the sweet, enterprisey MERGE statement will get Blazeix's head lopped off. ;)
<Blazeix> hah, no, i'm safe. it locked some time while I was at lunch
<Blazeix> so unless MERGE spins up a thread in the background and executes later; i should be fine
<tjagoda> "I know you said MERGE, but what I assume you said is DROP ALL TABLES in six hours."
<rick_h> Blazeix: is hat insert or replace type stuff?
<rick_h>  /hat/that
<Blazeix> yeah, so you specify two tables, a src and a target, and the columns that you want to join on, then outline scenarios for when to insert/update/delete from the target
<Blazeix> http://charliedigital.com/2009/06/05/t-sql-merge-my-new-friend/
<rick_h> lol "Awesome! Admittedly, I'm still trying to come up with some legitimate uses for this in my day-to-day application programming "
<Blazeix> heh, datamarts are the picture-perfect use case
<snap-l> Blazeix: You said Join, correct?
<snap-l> as in join two tables...
<snap-l> ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I believe we have our smoking gun. ;)
<tjagoda> Wonder if anybody has ever mass joined tables in a database as part of a ragequit or something
<snap-l> "If the DB's blown to bits, you shall not acquit"
<rick_h> Blazeix: ok, so you're generating more specific R/O type tables?
<rick_h> and using merge to provide the right set of data then?
 * rick_h hasn't heard datamart before and he's read a couple of db books
<Blazeix> part of ETL
<rick_h> heh, I can't help but think of datamart as the sql equiv of map/reduce
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, gotcha
<Blazeix> basically datawarehousing
<rick_h> yea, http://searchsqlserver.techtarget.com/definition/data-mart isn't bad
<snap-l> Best little Data Whorehouse in Texas
<Blazeix> we use the terms interchangeably here, but according to wikipedia there's a difference
<rick_h> ok, so I can see how the merge thing is cool there
<rick_h> woot! reid created tag v3.5.0pr2 at yui/yui3
<Blazeix> awesome!
 * rick_h dances around waiting for the blog post summary of changes 
<Blazeix> hopefully there's a date input widget :P
 * tjagoda has no clue what you're speaking of
<rick_h> Blazeix: :P
<rick_h> Blazeix: there is date
<rick_h> but not time
<rick_h> wasn't that what you wanted?
<rick_h> YUI has class extensions, just add time support :)
<Blazeix> no, date input is what I wanted
<Blazeix> time input is tricky
<rick_h> the calendar widget didn't work for you?
<Blazeix> i'll just go with two input boxes for time...
<rick_h> or it was beta
<Blazeix> the calendar widget is just for displaying a calendar inline, right?
<Blazeix> no good way to attach it to an input box's icon?
<brousch> i have not seen a time input widget that was better than a text box
<rick_h>  The calendar is currently not enabled with popup functionality: it will be released as a calendar plugin in 3.5
<rick_h> to quote the docs
<rick_h> http://stage.yuilibrary.com/yui/docs/calendar/
<Blazeix> right, which is why I asked if it was in 3.5pr2 :)
<rick_h> Blazeix: basically all you'd do though is create the object on page load, call obj.render() on click, and on close obj.get('value')
<Blazeix> brousch: yeah, there are all sorts of clever time input widgets, and they all kind of weird
<brousch> they are all annoying, clumsy, and slower than typing in a time
<Blazeix> rick_h: right, I could create my own widget based off of that, just like i could pretty easily create a numeric spinner widget
<Blazeix> but you shouldn't have to for a js library that's on version 3.5
<Blazeix> or 3.4
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, it looks like it'll be final in 3.5
<rick_h> but there's event for catching click, selectionChange, widget:render and there are show/hide methods. So as long as it looks pretty and such it's 6 lines of glue code to hook into an input/input icon
<Blazeix> we'll see. there's a bunch of minor papercuts on the UI side of YUI. there are enough little things like that to scare me away for now
<rick_h> gotcha
<Blazeix> i love their combo loader
<Blazeix> and there overall infrastructure / mvc stuff looks promising
<Blazeix> but i'm not going to buy into a prebuilt solution if i have to compromise on things that users will judge my apps on.
<PainBank1> how do you like YUI?
<Blazeix> rick_h can give you a good summary of it :)
<snap-l> PainBank1: Let's just say rick_h and YUI are registered at Bed Bath and Beyond, and it'll be a civil ceremony.
<PainBank1> awwwww
<snap-l> Anyone else think the drop box icon in Ubuntu Unity doesn't look like an open box?
<snap-l> Is there a preferred way to keep a module-level "global varaible" in Python?
<brousch> store it in __init__.py?
<brousch> well, declare it there
<snap-l> Yeah, but I have a boat-load of them that get used in another function
<snap-l> And I have a lot of "global foo \n global bar \n ..."
<brousch> put them in a dict in __init__.py
<snap-l> Hmm..
<snap-l> Not sure that's an improvement
<brousch> fewer imports
<Blazeix> what are all these global variables for? app configuration?
<snap-l> Yeah, it's an automated process
<snap-l> first half sets up the environment, second half runs it
<snap-l> before I did Sphinx docs for it, it didn't have an explicit main()
<snap-l> now that I have Sphinx docs, it has an explicit main, and the global variables fall apart
<Blazeix> i'd just make some config object/dict and dump the properties in there
<Blazeix> not sure if there's a better way.
<snap-l> Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of
<snap-l> hmm
<Blazeix> fwiw, python's configparser returns a dict of strings
<Blazeix> basically
<greg-g> btw everyone, this is the most amazing thing I have in digital form: http://grossmeier.net/files/rowan/911-audio/
<brousch> what'd i miss on the globals discussion?
<greg-g> brousch: you missed something even more important: the most amazing thing I have in digital form: http://grossmeier.net/files/rowan/911-audio/
<brousch> d00d
<brousch> you did it all at home?
<greg-g> well, Carrie did most of it
<greg-g> but yeah :)
<greg-g> unplanned homebirth
<brousch> ucrazy!
<brousch> i'm gonna wait until after dinner to listen though ;)
<greg-g> yes, yes we are/were
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> nothing bad
<greg-g> you hear a baby crying in the background
<greg-g> luckily, you don't hear me crying in the background
<brousch> did you deliver?
<brousch> catch?
<greg-g> I caught him, yeah
<greg-g> and cut the umbilical cord with a scalple (the EMTs didn't have scissors)
<brousch> nice
<greg-g> 'twas crazy
<brousch> i can't imagine. it was crazy enough for us at the hospital
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-31
<brousch> cord is freakish, isn't it
<brousch> ew, yeah, george pooped in utero too
<brousch> nasty mess
<greg-g> check out the bottom image, the 7 cm example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbilical_cord#Early_versus_delayed_clamping
<greg-g> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Detached_Umbilical_Cord.jpg  <-- That's Rowan
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> fml
<brousch> my dad is on unity and i need to walk him through something
<brousch> over the phone
<greg-g> hah
<Blazeix> "ok, first install vnc"
<jrwren> doesn't ubuntu one have built in desktop sharing?
<Blazeix> I imagine the blocker is setting up the router to allow it
<jrwren> ubuntuone should solve the nat traversal problem.
<jrwren> if it doesn't, then fail!
<jrwren> hell, even chrome has a desktop sharing extension
<brousch> ah well, fixed one problem
<brousch> now i need to figure out how to do desktop sharing or have him set the monitor resolution
<snap-l> Tool on Delicious Agony
<_stink_> hey, discovered today that the old 'wait 30 minute after a meal before doing something physical' is true
<_stink_> in the form of my son
<snap-l> cramps?
<_stink_> who ran around like a lunatic after dinner then barfed on my wife.
<snap-l> I think it's true for some people
<_stink_> then it is for him and me.  i didn't barf today, though.
<snap-l> I don't have a problem with it, outside of being sleepy for a bit afterward
<_stink_> i mostly remember hearing that i shouldn't swim
<_stink_> but i can barely swim anyway :P
<snap-l> I think that's a wives tale
<_stink_> damn my parents for fibbing to me.
<brousch> snap-l++
<brousch> _stink_.son.barf++
<_stink_> hehehe
<_stink_> she's gotten it 4 times now
<_stink_> to my one
<_stink_> i was winding him up too
<_stink_> so i think i'm mostly to blame
<brousch> very nice
<brousch> before my son's birth i made a deal with my wife. she cleans all poops and i clean all pukes
<brousch> he has never puked
<_stink_> wowsers
<_stink_> never?
<_stink_> man
<snap-l> brousch: Remind me to take you guys to Cedar Point
<brousch> so, the deal fell through
<_stink_> aw man
<_stink_> and while i used to be queasy about barf, i scrub that stuff like a champ now
<snap-l> One hour on the Tilt-A-Whirl after eating a bucket of carny-fries should do the trick
<_stink_> snap-l: i will not go on any rides ever.
<brousch> ever?
<snap-l> _stink_: Wow, that's harsh
<_stink_> last time i went to cedar point i bailed after one of the lightweight rides
<_stink_> because i was all barfy
<snap-l> motion sickness?
<_stink_> yeah
<brousch> snap-l: last time i came close to barfing was one of the simulators at Disney World
<brousch> the fake movement hits me harder than real movement
<snap-l> The only ones I don't like are the ones where I'm falling
<snap-l> You can spin me right 'round (baby right 'round, like a record) and I'm fine.
<_stink_> man i'm exact opposite
<_stink_> i sometimes wonder about motion sickness.  it's kind of an interesting thing evolutionarily.
<snap-l> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJv5qLsLYoo for the reference)
<_stink_> like for the last 200000 years, there weren't Air Force pilot spin-o-rama machines.
<_stink_> or vans to sit in the back of for a 6 hour car ride
<_stink_> but now that we do that stuff...
<_stink_> i barf.
<snap-l> I think you mighthave some trouble with equilibrium
<snap-l> "The most common hypothesis for the cause of motion sickness is that it functions as a defense mechanism against neurotoxins.[7] The area postrema in the brain is responsible for inducing vomiting when poisons are detected, and for resolving conflicts between vision and balance. When feeling motion but not seeing it (for example, in a ship with no windows), the inner ear transmits to the brain that
<snap-l> it senses motion, but the eyes tell the brain that everything is still. As a result of the discordance, the brain will come to the conclusion that one of them is hallucinating and further conclude that the hallucination is due to poison ingestion. The brain responds by inducing vomiting, to clear the supposed toxin."
<_stink_> haha, yeah, was just reading wikipedia too
<snap-l> ;)
<brousch> I started moving things off of Dreamhost today. It's not because of recent problems they've had, it's due to reading comments from users on the Dreamhost Status blog that I realized what kind of morons I am sharing a server with and it scares me
<_stink_> hehe
<snap-l> brousch: You're just realizing this?
<brousch> i had naively assumed they were people like me
<snap-l> Dreamhost has had that feeling of "I have this custom PHP script that has 15 ways to do a SQL Injection, and will take out a MySQL server because of the 20 cartesian products just to get a user record"
<brousch> it actually has a really nice set of one click to 9install, they do maintenance php apps
<brousch> what the ... snap-l do you make this comic? http://hijinksensue.com/2012/01/29/truemetalfacts/
<brousch> now to bed, with that in my head
<tjagoda> HOLY DIVER
<snap-l> brousch: I wish
<snap-l> I think I have created the most vile Club Metal yet.
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2012/01/31/open-metalcast-special-interview-episode-on-wings-of-wax/
<rick_h> awesome snap-l !
<Wolfger> morning
<snap-l> rick_h: Thanks. :)
<snap-l> Hopefully will have an interview with Jono by the end of the week
<brousch> for omc?
<snap-l> Yep
<brousch> or for a job at canonical?
<snap-l> Pfft, Canonical. ;)
<snap-l> Nobody gets hired in at Canonical. :)
<snap-l> You'd have to be some sort of rockstar to even get in at canonical
<brousch> greg-g is in SF. he could scrape some jono dna and mail it to you
<snap-l> Um, yay?
<brousch> then you can splice it with yours, become a rock star, and join canonical
<brousch> duh
<snap-l> silly me
<snap-l> Yay, case is Out For Delivery
<tjagoda> AVAST!
<Wolfger> Yoho!
<rick_h> is it friday yet?
<Wolfger> yo-no!
<rick_h> @$#@$#@
<rick_h> crap, did I do perl again? sry
<tjagoda> http://www.zdnet.com/photos/a-first-look-at-ubuntu-linuxs-head-up-display-gallery/6341176?tag=search-results-rivers;item9
<tjagoda> Anybody see that?
<tjagoda> Hm.
<tjagoda> I might actually like that.
<rick_h> yea, we'll see how it goes
<tjagoda> I just wonder if I'll get tired of all the confused typing to figure out what I want
<tjagoda> Like
<tjagoda> wtf do I type when I want to go to double spacing?
<tjagoda> =P
<tjagoda> http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/01/testing-hud-heads-up-display.html
<tjagoda> If anybody's feeling Hudventurous
<Wolfger> rick_h: never apologize for doing perl. Perl is awesome.
<rick_h> Wolfger: ummm...yea...riiight
<tjagoda> Perl is awesome like chainsaws are awesome
<rick_h> "you only ever need to fire it up that one time a year"?
<tjagoda> And it feels really badass until it cuts off your leg
<Wolfger> Perl is awesome like a Swiss Army Chainsaw is awesome.
<Wolfger> when you need something done fast, and don't care how it looks, let'er rip
<tjagoda> And hope that you have great insurance benefits
<tjagoda> For when you need to have all your fingers reattached
<tjagoda> Hm
<tjagoda> Does Canonical provide insurance benefits, rick_h?
<tjagoda> It just occurred to me how frighteningly complex that must be when your employees are everywhere
<rick_h> tjagoda: yea
<tjagoda> I am intimidated by the HR person who figured out what benefits package of purchase in Tasmania.
<tjagoda> to purchase*
<rick_h> heh, well not sure how it works there
<Raggs> tjagoda, the question is what about people who have nationalized health plans, how does Canonical handle that?
<rick_h> the US has a business office/company in out of Mass.
<tjagoda> Apparently its spelled Tasmania
<tjagoda> I apologize to all the Tasmanians who read our IRC logs and became offended.
<rick_h> heh, we've got a Tasmanian on LP
<rick_h> several from Australia actually
<tjagoda> Matt had mentioned that yesterday, Tasmania specifically
<rick_h> ah, gotcha
<PainBank> tjagoda: what were you applying for at cananoical?
<tjagoda> Support on the Launchpad team
<PainBank> ah, cool.
<snap-l> Just went through orientation
<brousch> are you more less orriented now?
<brousch> oriental?
<rick_h> snap-l: completed?
<rick_h> snap-l: or just finally getting to the formal class bits?
<snap-l> rick_h: The formalities
<snap-l> Reading through the new staff manual
<rick_h> snap-l: gotcha, fun stuff
<snap-l> Oh yeah
<snap-l> I guess tomorrow is the dog-and-pony show
<brousch> which will you ride?
<rick_h> dog and pony show?
<snap-l> rick_h: Each of the managers showing what they do
<rick_h> snap-l: ah, gotcha
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_and_pony_show
<tjagoda> snap-l starting a new job?
<snap-l> tjagoda: Same one I've been starting, yes. :)
<tjagoda> tjagoda is clearly not up to speed on current channel events
<tjagoda> http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/421951_10150638859566214_127828101213_11214458_880237923_n.jpg
<tjagoda> That awkward moment when you realize there is a valid reason for the Middle East hating us
<snap-l> tjagoda: Yeah, we're not exactly the most friendly people
<jason_> rick_h, you're not supposed to continue to participate in the community once you are hired
<jason_> sorry
<jason_> company policy
<snap-l> jason_: Shouldn't you be fixing something? :)
<jason_> snap-l, I am
<jason_> right now
<_stink_> i wonder if that number includes all violent civilian deaths in Iraq since we invaded.
<snap-l> focus follows mouse. #1 priority
<_stink_> e.g., sectarian violence.
<jason_> heeeellllll no
<jason_> snap-l, I would rather kill myself than try to fight that battle again
<snap-l> jason_: I'll help if it doesn't get fixed. ;)
<tjagoda> And then Unity exploded
<rick_h> jason_: I'm only here to distract and cause confusion
<rick_h> and make sure they all know that all problems are from jason_
<tjagoda> I dont know who jason_ is, but I assume he's the reason Unity hardlocks my PC.
<rick_h> tjagoda: exactly!
<jason_> tjagoda, hardware?
<rick_h> me job here is done
<tjagoda> System76
<tjagoda> Laptop
<tjagoda> The 13.3 inch model which literally has the Ubuntu logo branded on its lid
<jason_> hardware?
<tjagoda> lulz
<tjagoda> I would have to try and find it on the s76 wiki
<jason_> tjagoda, I learned one thing from that infographic of yours
<jason_> we killed the shit out of Iraq
<tjagoda> Oh god
<tjagoda> Thats now logged forever =P
<snap-l> It's not like it isn't a matter of public record
<tjagoda> And we probably just moved up like six rankings on the terrorist hit list
<snap-l> Oh, so we're 6 levels up from #1?
<snap-l> Goodto know. ;)
<jason_> nor is it like thats anything new in the history of western people... we tend to kill all sorts of people
<tjagoda> Especially Indians.
<jason_> we love killing indians
<snap-l> Go with what you know.
<jason_> never in the history of the world have a people been so effectively killed
 * snap-l lines up for his CoC slap and handbasket to hell
<tjagoda> Nazi's? =(
<jason_> nope
<snap-l> Goodwin, here we come
<jason_> not even close
<tjagoda> rofl.
<jason_> think about it this way
<tjagoda> Surly the Nazi's must be winning in numbers though
<jason_> hell no
<tjagoda> TO GOOGLE!
<jason_> when we found the mayans
<jason_> they had the largest city
<jason_> in the world
<jason_> how many are left?
<jason_> 0
<jason_> none
<jason_> we killed the SHIT out of them
<snap-l> But at least we have their calendar.
<tjagoda> Oh, I was only counting USA-killed indians
<jason_> but thats not fair
<jason_> most of them were in central america
<brousch> there are many mayans left
<brousch> they just don't live in the ruins
<tjagoda> THEN WHY DON'T THEY EXPLAIN THEIR CALENDAR?!
<snap-l> brousch:  IF you make a joke about Maya renderfarms, I'll hurt you. :)
<snap-l> tjagoda: They did
<tjagoda> Oh.
<tjagoda> Well
<snap-l> tjagoda: They say that it repeats
<tjagoda> Kudos to them
<snap-l> but of course that doesn't get communicated
<brousch> too boring
<jason_> brousch, sorry I meant to imply that their entire civilization and way of life was completely destroyed
<snap-l> Funnily enough, you can't believe everything you see on Ancient Aliens.
<jjesse> snap-l,  really?  i'm so disappointed now
<tjagoda> Canonical's never gonna hire me now that jason_ has associated me with mass native genocide =P
<snap-l> jjesse: Hope you have some stiff drinks handy, because I'll disabuse a few notions for you. :)
<jjesse> hahaha i'm not current on the show, i keep on forgetting to watch
<tjagoda> Ugh
<snap-l> jjesse: We watched it on Netflix
<tjagoda> an iPhone just crossed my desk
<snap-l> it's a textbook case of logical fallacy.
<tjagoda> Considering taking it out of the box, throwing it out, and inserting a blackberry torch in its place.
<snap-l> tjagoda: Actually, you have some reason to do that for corporate usage
<snap-l> since it doesn't have the security.
<jason_> tjagoda, we hire all sorts of weird people
<jason_> Im sure you're not too weird
<jason_> want my job?
<tjagoda> I'm applying for Launchpad Support
<jason_> tjagoda, sure you dont want my job instead?
<rick_h> jason_: you're chained where you are
<rick_h> don't you have some tv bugs to fix? :P
<jason_> TV?
<tjagoda> snap-l: My building is full of blackberries, the sales office is full of iPhone4S's because blackberries conspicuously started falling in toilets after the first iPhone got in the door
<rick_h> jason_: yea, unity everywhere
<tjagoda> "HOW DID IT FALL IN THE TOILET.  YOU DONT EVEN HAVE SHIRT POCKETS!"
<tjagoda> If I get the Launchpad support job I imagine I will be lost and confused for the first month, drifting off balance in  a job which does not require me to constantly carry a leatherman
<snap-l> tjagoda: You can still carry one
<snap-l> tjagoda: Pretty sure they don't have a "no leatherman" policy (though I do believe there's a no-assless-chaps policy)
<snap-l> That's pretty much standard corporate fare.
<snap-l> (and for those of you who just pictured tjagoda in chaps, you're welcome)
<brousch> luckily i have not met him, so i was able to mentally substitute beyonce in leather chaps
<tjagoda> I am neither female nor black, your mental substitution is flawed!
<tjagoda> Excited after yesterday's interview though
<tjagoda> Felt that my responses matched what he was looking for, which is good because I didn't intentionally set out to deliver a what-you-want-to-hear spiel
<tjagoda> Also, Brousch, a whole new set of lego characters for you to $$$ on
<tjagoda> http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/429477_10150528790653403_6665038402_9091598_989518281_n.jpg
<brousch> oh great. now i can't let my son watch the movies
<tjagoda> Also
<tjagoda> CCP World Headquarters is an epic building
<tjagoda> http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/419861_10150559051499394_17614129393_8560906_614269394_n.jpg
<tjagoda> CCP = Makers of EVE Online
<snap-l> Also holders of the White Wolf IP
<tjagoda> Or perhaps thats just their conference center
<tjagoda> I am unsure now
<tjagoda> snap-l: The who?
<tjagoda> Nevermind
<tjagoda> Google told me
<tjagoda> "Mitt Romney is expected to win the Florida primary, despite Newt Gingrich literally promising Florida voters the Moon. Romney has been campaigning in Florida with Sen. John McCain, who beat him for the 2008 Republican nomination. Ron Paul, who didn't campaign in Florida at all, is coming in behind the two frontrunners, followed by Rick Santorum."
<snap-l> tjagoda: Did you Google Santorum? :)
<tjagoda> I heard about that
<snap-l> http://us.asmodee.com/ressources/articles/making-a-game-from-prototype-to-project.php
<tjagoda> Man, the internet has a serious bromance with Ron Paul
<PainBank> not MY internet!
<tjagoda> But he's so fun an quirky
<tjagoda> Its like electing your funny Uncle to be President
<snap-l> That's because we're all a bunch of hippies
<tjagoda> I cannot imagine a world in which all American military units are actually within the borders of America
<tjagoda> What kind of crazy logic is that?
<snap-l> found it humorous that the "hydroponics gardening" shop near MH Caribou has a BIG picture of Ron Paul on their door.
<PainBank> pre-WW2
<PainBank> and something I agree with to some degree.
<tjagoda> I would love to see us remove deployments from the WW2 holdovers
<snap-l> PainBank: I think that's the problem with Ron Paul
<snap-l> On the surface, he makes sense
<tjagoda> Like the bazillions of troops in germany
<PainBank> that is why I said some degree.
<PainBank> germany... japan... keeping some local like that make sense...
<snap-l> unfortunately, #1: He's not Congress, and #2: He's a bit draconian in his policies.
<PainBank> but just cause we have troops everywhere doesn't mean we have to use them...
<PainBank> yup
<PainBank> snap-l: agree
<tjagoda> I like the total withdrawal.
<tjagoda> And I mean
<tjagoda> We can get anywhere in the globe in a matter of minutes with our superfast missiles
<snap-l> What's humrous too is how much authority the president really has
<tjagoda> Is it really necessary to have a bunch of marines staring at China from Asia?
<snap-l> i.e.: not much
<snap-l> tjagoda: Frankly, China scares me
<snap-l> They're the folks who have the where-with-all to actually make good on threats.
<tjagoda> China's foreign policy is very much one of "ignore the rest of the world because we're already mega huge"
<snap-l> if China did trade sanctions, we'd have to re-learn how to make the lube to screw ourselves
<PainBank> snap-l: china doesn't scare me!  haven't you seen Red Dawn 2 yet?
<tjagoda> I am not entirely opposed to the results of China trade sanctions. =(
<PainBank> snap-l: lol
<PainBank> nice
<PainBank> so true
<snap-l> PainBank: Dude, this is the place that screws with their own currency on a regular basis
<PainBank> I know, I know... just messing with you.
<PainBank> I have a lot of concerns about them as well, but their communism isn't the same as the soviets... actually, it may be worse if that is possible.
<tjagoda> Commcapitalism
<tjagoda> Commucapitalism*
<snap-l> Yeah, at least Soviet-era communism wasn't sustainable
<snap-l> (at least we know that now)
<tjagoda> Does China even really get to be called Communist anymoer?
<tjagoda> more*
<snap-l> yes
<PainBank> ah, yup
<tjagoda> Are they not just really totalitarian Capitalists in the making? =(
<PainBank> they are, but their path to get there is through capitalism... unfortunately...
<PainBank> but we like our goods cheap here.
<PainBank> china is like the robot ship on Wall-E.... slowly taking us over... while we sit fat and happy....
<tjagoda> PainBank obviously wants us to invade China
<snap-l> Wolfger: http://www.maxhire.net/cp/?E4596C721443515B7E571B217756186B026277405601
<PainBank> ROCK ON!!!!
<PainBank> or... perhaps...
<PainBank> just impose IRAN style trade sanctions and start making everything here again... at least until it can be made by some other BIG country a bit more friendly, like, oh say India...
<PainBank> snap-l: nice.
<PainBank> so if I apply for a postion for HTML5 app dev and tell them I have done HTML5 since 1997, would that be a lie?
<PainBank> haha
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> I've been wanting HTML5 since 1997
<PainBank> hehe
<tjagoda> PainBank: Or Brazil?
<PainBank> I would prefer Brazil....
<PainBank> have ya seen the hotties from there!  whoooohooooo
<PainBank> anyone ever try out a 3G repeater or amplifier for a cell phone?  I miss my high data rates when up north.
<PainBank> . If you don't read the internet you are uninformed, if you do read the internet you are misinformed.
<PainBank> adaption of a quote.
<Wolfger> snap-l: Yes, we have their (Mayan) calendar, but it's clearly worthless. They said the world would end in 2012, but it ended much, much sooner than that (for them)
<PainBank> Wolfger: noooo, they just left eaarth
<Wolfger> tjagoda: I worship CCP
<Wolfger> PainBank: Red Dawn 2 came out? I've been waiting for it ever since I saw the set in Mount Clemens
<PainBank> no... haha
<jrwren> zomg, I didn't know it was THIS bad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.dwg
<PainBank> but I am waiting for it too... of course it won't live up to the 1st... but I will take what I can get for suvival stories
<PainBank> "DWG" redirects here. For the cereal byproduct of the distillation process, seeÂ Distillers wet grains.
<brousch> jrwren: what do you mean?
<PainBank> haha, that was at the top of the link
<jrwren> dealing with cad files... I didn't know DWG was a TM IP disaster.
<snap-l> If it involves Autodesk in any way, consider it a disaster.
<brousch> oh yeah, it is one of my pet peeves
<brousch> you have to pay into some shady org to use libs to read the files
<snap-l> Autodesk is one of the companies that I truly despise, next to Oracle
<brousch> autodesk changes the dwg standard every 3 years to shake out anyone who has reverse-engineered it
<jrwren> and they sue over plain text in the file!!!
<jrwren> because that plain text is their TM!
<jrwren> my jaw dropped.
<jrwren> IP in this world needs great revisions.
<snap-l> jrwren: Yep, they're Grade A, FDA approved assholes
<brousch> they give you a free viewer to download, but it is the most monstrously bloated piece of software ever
<jrwren> if the FDA approved it, ya know it ain't good :p
<snap-l> Other companies are ground chuck to their Kobe Beef of asshollery.
<brousch> i have to run a windows VM just to run their win3.1-looking license manager
<snap-l> http://magnatune.com/artists/ion <- Sounds a lot like Red Shift
<jrwren> music, or Red Shift the physics description of light behaving like doppler effect in sound?'
<snap-l> Red Shift the ambient band
<jrwren> ever listen to Delien? the song Red Pod :)
<snap-l> http://www.redshift.biz/
<snap-l> Not ringing a bell
<snap-l> http://www.downloadplatform.com/directory.php?artist=81&title=Redshift
<snap-l> Love the album Down time
<rick_h> I declare it beer time
<rick_h> that is all...
<brousch> good. bring me 2
<rick_h> http://davenicolette.wordpress.com/2012/01/31/well-actually/
<brousch> ug, tedious article
<snap-l> Yay, case arrived.
<snap-l> Left At:
<snap-l> Met Customer Woman
<tjagoda> Whoot
<tjagoda> New monitor shipped
<brousch> ooooh, customer woman
<Blazeix> android humble bundle: http://www.humblebundle.com/?android
<snap-l> Yeah, that's awesome.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-01
<snap-l> New case is in. It's sharp
<snap-l> and by sharp, I mean it's going to cut me at some point during this build
<mydogsnameisrudy> hmm sounds orgazmic
<snap-l> haven't had a case like that in a while.
<brousch> fun times with the subaru
<rick_h> brousch: yea?
<brousch> transmission issues
<brousch> looks like a common problem on this era of subaru
<brousch> it hit 123456 miles last night!
<brousch> but it has trouble shifting into drive
<rick_h> yuck
<mydogsnameisrudy> change the filter and oil lately?
<brousch> mydogsnameisrudy: it has regular maintenance from a mechanic
<rick_h> brousch: what year is it? I took my last one to 180k <3
<brousch> i found a forum with many others having this exact same problem, but the only solutions are transmission flush and filter (gives you 6 months of usage) or transmission rebuild
<brousch> 2000 forester
<rick_h> ah, outback for life!
<rick_h> brousch: yea, I've heard of some of that from the early 2k models
<brousch> i liked the outback better, but this is the wife's car so she had final say
<rick_h> when I got my 99 I test drove both and the forrester feels roomier, but the outback is more solid/quiet
<brousch> we got it in 2003 with 19k miles, so it's had a good run
<rick_h> yea, nice thing is that fix the tranny and it's still got another good life in it
<brousch> tranny fix is $2000+, car is worth $3000
<brousch> $3000 if it's working ;)
<brousch> also we've put a grand into it in the last 6 months with the first time this happened, broken shift cable, and burst radiator, so it's not feeling like something that will last will another 50k miles
<rick_h> brousch: ugh, sucky
<snap-l> brousch: Sorry to hear that.
<Wolfger> brousch: Which gear is "drive"? 1st? 5th?
<Wolfger> 1st gets me going, but 5th is what I spend most of my time in...
<brousch> 1st
<brousch> automatic
<Wolfger> But I generally find that any one gear is skipable.
<Wolfger> Well there's your problem! :-)
<rick_h> hard to skip 5th
<brousch> but trying to go using 1,2 or 3 has the same result
<Wolfger> bah
<Wolfger> rick_h: I can skip (forgo) 5th if need be, but MPG would suffer
<rick_h> skip != forgo :P
<brousch> real cars have 7 forward gears
<Wolfger> but skip =~ forgo
<brousch> you wimps and your 5
<Wolfger> real drivers shift their own gears, not leave it to the whims of a mechanical device
<rick_h> yea, <3 my stick
<brousch> yeah, i kind of miss that
<rick_h> but it does suck that it's hard to get the nice upgrades since sticks are usually saved for the lower end builds
<brousch> but then i spend 75% of my time on city streets with stop lights and signs every 1/2 mile
<Wolfger> at any rate, sorry to hear about your costly repairs :-(
<Wolfger> FWIW, my Jeep is approaching the quarter-million mark on the odometer, no major issues other than the radiator rusting out last year.
<brousch> yeah, jeeps last forvever
<brousch> fall apart bit by bit from the outisde in
<Wolfger> Yeah, I'm getting some water inside when it rains... but I don't consider that a major issue for some reason :-p
<Wolfger> inside -> the rugs get wet, not inside -> raining on my head
<Wolfger> I'm sure the body will rust completely away before I have powertrain issues
<rick_h> just keep telling myself "doing this nasty hack in your code is ok...it'll let you get to fix it...it'll be ok"
<brousch> hehe http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/stewart-michigan.png
<_stink_> hah
<Wolfger> brousch, snap-l: we should incorporate that into the LoCo logo
<Wolfger> rick_h: hack code is fine... for now...
<Wolfger> What are the odds it will ever bite you in the butt? ;-)
<rick_h> heh, I'm proud, I've not blown up and quit yet. :)
<Wolfger> uh-oh
<Wolfger> trouble in Canonical paradise?
<rick_h> let's just say that it's a compliment to my will power I've not begun a man hunt for the people that did the JS work in LP :)
<_stink_> hah
<Wolfger> LOL
<rick_h> I know that they say "you don't need ruby experts, you need programming experts!" but some damn good programmers can write some HORRIBLE javascript!
<Wolfger> It's comforting, somewhat, to know that bad code infiltrates every company to some degree. At least... comforting for as long as I don't change jobs.
<brousch> ohman, google groups pages are much easier to use than facebook
<brousch> switching is really easy
<Wolfger> woot
<Wolfger> I have really come to loathe
<Wolfger> Facebook
<brousch> adding manager is simple too
<snap-l> rick_h: I did some code wrangling yesterday that made me feel like I needed some lysol afterward
<snap-l> rick_h: Also, Javascript is not regular programming
<snap-l> Normal programming makes some assumptions which are patently false in Javascript.
<Blazeix> like what?
<snap-l> scope rules
<snap-l> Conventions for hiding or containing scope
<snap-l> prototyping vs. OO
<snap-l> JAvascript reminds me of C++ in many regards, because your preconceptions can get you into some deep trouble
<Blazeix> scope i'm not so sure about. python scope is funky as well
<snap-l> Well, in a way, yes
<snap-l> Python's scoping is more geared towards making sure you're explicit when using globals
<Blazeix> and variables leaking out of if/while blocks
<snap-l> Javascript encourages global usage
<snap-l> s/encourages/sends out invitations, and has a party whenever there's/
<Blazeix> yeah, binding to the global object is stupid
<Blazeix> as in a stupid language design deecision
<snap-l> (I know it's not that bad, but it seems like every Javascript book I've read, without exception, starts off with "Here's how to avoid global scope")
<Blazeix> i guess i'd argue that js differences aren't that large, when compared to differences between other languages
<Blazeix> i'm bristling at "not regular programming" being used as an excuse to not learn a language
<Blazeix> though I know that's not what you were going for :)
<snap-l> Blazeix: Oh, no, that's not it at all
<snap-l> More that "if you're not programming for Javascript, you'll be in for a world of hurt"
<snap-l> If you treat C++ as C with nicer malloc, you're also in for a world of hurt
<snap-l> Of course, that's almost true of any language, now that I think about it. ;)
 * snap-l gets ready to restate his null hypothesis
<snap-l> Perhaps Javascript isn't approached as a new language, but more as "web glue", and that's where it gets folks into trouble
<snap-l> they only learn enough for their project, not to really understand it
 * snap-l waits for _stink_ to yell at him for using the phrase "null hypothesis". ;)
<rick_h> the thing with JS is that it's bolted on a lot of things
<rick_h> like in Launchpad
<rick_h> which then means as it grows, you have to unbolt it and start to make sense of it, get it under tests that didn't exist, break assumptions, functionality that was done server side since the server side code was generating hte JS code
<rick_h> which is where I'm at, trying to wrangle years of bad practice into good practices, but as you start to do it, you break so much code that you have to go back, implement bad things before you can start to fix them
<rick_h> maybe shell is the only thing that tend to get abused so much because you can just do quick things with it and it's not really part of hte main app
<rick_h> so it ends up not tested, no one knows how it works, etc
<brousch> shell scripting is a great analogue
<brousch> it's the bash of the web
<snap-l> brousch: rick_h ++
<rick_h> except in JS you can start to turn that bash code into a full application now
<brousch> i'm sure you can make a real application in bash
<rick_h> I'm sure it's possible
<rick_h> but not common as making a reall app in JS is becoming common
<brousch> that's just because Google hasn't shown you how yet
<rick_h> lol
<Blazeix> next google blogpost "we're sunsetting this whole 'web' thing"
<rick_h> naw, "bash for App Engine support! with a new sdk we call BwT!"
<rick_h> ksh users everywhere cry out "Why doesn't Google love us?!"
<Wolfger> psh
 * Wolfger wonders why he has never actually installed perl shell... it only seems natural...
<jrwren> anyone know how I can get bash to show me readline variables, like completions-ignore-case
<snap-l> Wolfger: Because you're not that masochistic?
<brousch> snap-l: come on, look who you're talking about
<brousch> there must be some other reason
<brousch> oh no! the choo-choo train! http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/se_mich/amtrak-train-crash-in-jackson-county
<jrwren> O_O
<snap-l> Ugh, not cool.
<snap-l> I love that during the recording of The Gates of Delerium by Yes, a rack of automobile parts fell during the drum take
<snap-l> and they left it in.
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gates_of_Delirium
<Wolfger> snap-l: Me, not masochistic? I've been a contractor at Chrysler for nearly 11 years now.
<Wolfger> brousch: the reason is laziness
<snap-l> Wolfger: Heh
<snap-l> Wolfger: Sadly I think there are contractors at Chrysler that have been there longer than most full-time folks.
<snap-l> So dippy.
<Wolfger> ...
<Wolfger> I think snap-l just called me dippy.
<snap-l> Um, no
<snap-l> I mean Chrysler's whole hiring practices
<Wolfger> :-)
<Wolfger> They're actually hiring pretty decently lately
<Wolfger> but I lack the requisite 4-year degree to continue doing what I've been doing the past 11 years if I attempt to hire in.
<Blazeix> my boss (who codes) joined the company 4 years ago, and he doesn't have a degree. so it's still possible.
<Blazeix> just maybe not at chrysler
<Wolfger> Yeah, problem with big companies is that they tend to adopt arbitrary rules and adhere strictly to them.
<Wolfger> There's a massive disconnect between the HR dept and the people who actually conduct interviews
<jrwren> yet another reason to not work for a bug company
<brousch> yeah, also, the bugs
<brousch> man, they're killers
 * krondor won't even talk about the depressing government hiring process
<snap-l> Blazeix: Chrysler is blazingly stupid about their degree requirements
<snap-l> krondor: One of my friends keeps sending me job reqs for the state of michigan
<snap-l> unless they could guarantee a frat-party every single day, I think I'd want to kill myself.
<brousch> quick and dirty logo. thoughts? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/grmobiledev-logo-400px.png
<snap-l> INteresting start
<brousch> i think it's all there. maybe just mess with fonts and finger thicknesses
<krondor> hmm, I'm not sure I like the gray for the fingers instead of black
<brousch> everything black, or gray phone, black fingers?
<krondor> everything black I'm thinking
<krondor> or make the colors a more obvious difference.  The gray is too similar to the black
<brousch> they are pretty close
<brousch> hm, a dark yellow hand works well too
<Blazeix> what about android green?
<Blazeix> would that be too light?
<krondor> I'd make the four fingers shorter and fatter and more evenly spaced across the phone.  I'd make the thumb maybe come up midway to the edge of Dev
<krondor> Fills in the logo a bit more, and play with some fonts (Ubuntu font might look nice)
<krondor> Also I'd androidify it a bit more :)  Green Blazeix++ and get rid of that iphone circle for a home, back, switch icon
<krondor> but that's because I'm biased
<brousch> :P
<brousch> the green is so glaring
<brousch> oh crap, gotta run
<tjagoda> Terrible suspense is terrible
<tjagoda> I think tomorrow or Friday is when I'm supposed to hear back from Canonical
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-02
<tjagoda> Holy crap
<tjagoda> I'm watching the Star Trek TNG remastered sampler disc
<tjagoda> So so so clear and crisp
<tjagoda> Did not know that film from the 80's could be composited this clear
<rick_h> snap-l: http://muffinresearch.co.uk/archives/2010/10/15/fake-smtp-server-with-python/ is the type of thing
<rick_h> but that's not exactly it
<rick_h> http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/663879-smtp-server-simulation-using-python
<rick_h> https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=fake+smtp+server+write+to+file+testing+#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&source=hp&q=fake+smtp+server+write+to+file+testing+python&pbx=1&oq=fake+smtp+server+write+to+file+testing+python&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=29947l30639l0l30829l7l7l0l0l0l0l144l832l0.7l7l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=202a1680c10bcd1a&biw=1278&bih=691
<rick_h> ouch
<rick_h> https://github.com/apresta/tagger
<rick_h> http://code.google.com/p/autotags
<Blazeix> ah nice, I don't think i've seen that before
<rick_h> yea, just found that one
<rick_h> stuff to play with
<tjagoda> And then rick_h closes his browser in sadness, as the project is hosted on github instead of launchpad
<rick_h> heh
<tjagoda> and he is contractually obligated to not use it
<rick_h> OMG! kernel update finally fixed my second display off my dock!
<rick_h> YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY!
<Blazeix> nice!
<rick_h> now, keep it in portrait or do three full wide displays?
<snap-l> rick_h: IT was the keys that did it. :)
<Blazeix> i'm thinking you should put them in tiefighter mode
<Blazeix> []==[]
<rick_h> hah!
<rick_h> I was thinking that my other display, on the desktop I run in synergy would work well in portrait since it's usually just irc/twitter
<rick_h> stacked on top like that
<tjagoda> Go big
<tjagoda> buy more displays
<tjagoda> EYEFINITY 6!
<tjagoda> 4 Portraits 2 horizontals
<rick_h> I have been tempted to try stacked two  displays on top of each other
<tjagoda> I thought about that once, but I dislike all the vertical motion
<tjagoda> http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/405782_3249689601391_1241499697_3474482_1125725368_n.jpg
<tjagoda> Kids, if you dont make your bed, the zombies will literally kill you
<rick_h> Blazeix: is there an awesome shortcut to make an app show on all tags?
<rick_h> I know you can pick specific additional ones
<rick_h> Blazeix: so ctrl-shift-meta # will overlap an app onto that tag as well
<Blazeix> hm, not that I know of
<Blazeix> though it looks pretty easy to make one in rc.lua, just copying off of ctrl-shift-meta #
<rick_h> yea, looking at it now
<rick_h> moved the shortcut to just ctrl-meta-#
<rick_h> and yea, should be able to add a special script command there
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning
<snap-l> blargh
<snap-l> which, loosley translated, means "morning"
<mydogsnameisrudy> liking your case still?
<snap-l> Yeah, I haven't had a chance to move the components yet.
<mydogsnameisrudy> new build or using old system
<snap-l> Probably won't get a chance until this weekend
<snap-l> Old system, new case
<mydogsnameisrudy> oke
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> morning, rick_h
<mydogsnameisrudy> blargh
<mydogsnameisrudy> ;)
<snap-l> mydogsnameisrudy: Ah, that's an improper usage
<mydogsnameisrudy> doh my bad
<snap-l> it's only for before 6:45am that you would use blargh
<mydogsnameisrudy> ic good to know
<snap-l> between 6:45am and 7:00am, it's "feh"
<snap-l> Tricky language to get the hang of
<snap-l> has about 100 ways to say "morning"
<snap-l> but none for "good morning"
<snap-l> And with that, I think I'm awake enough to get started with the day.
<snap-l> brb
<brousch> i jinxed my kid
<brousch> he puked for the first time last night
<rick_h> ruh roh
<brousch> nasty stuff
<brousch> i figured it was my cooking, but turns out something is going around daycare
<rick_h> gotta love it
<brousch> now i'm paranoid i will get it
<rick_h> basically count on it
<brousch> oh man, you need to get me a pycon shirt when you're there
<brousch> http://gazit.me/2012/02/01/iterations.html
<rick_h> brousch: sure thing
<rick_h> brousch: just remind me and let me know what size. I think they sell extras (don't recall for sure)
<rick_h> last year they had some extras at the sprints
<brousch> ok
<snap-l> 'allo again
<rick_h> party
<snap-l> Oh, that's a nice design
<brousch> rick_h: better bring an extra suitcase to carry all the shirts back
<rick_h> hah! UPS store baby!
<snap-l> Yeah, $25 for an extra bag means you can justify a VERY large box.
<brousch> or you could give away your clothes to homeless people and use that bag
<Wolfger> morning
<snap-l> Wolfger: yo
<Wolfger> Anybody here do MichiPUG? I'm contemplating getting off my arse tonight.
<Wolfger> I probably won't, but I'm thinking about it :-p
<snap-l> I'd recommend it
<snap-l> it's a good group
<Wolfger> good to know
<snap-l> I'm not going to be able to make it (agai)
<snap-l> got an interview with Jono for Severed Fifth tonight
<snap-l> (yay me)
<Wolfger> yay
<rick_h> Wolfger: go, python koans will be good for you
<snap-l> Hoping to have it up tonight
<rick_h> do it!
<rick_h> snap-l: awesome!
<snap-l> Yeah, Python Koans are pretty cool
 * snap-l should have lead with that. ;)
<Wolfger> What's the parking like around SRT? Any idea?
<rick_h> Heh, varies
<snap-l> There's at least one structure
<rick_h> yea, there's one structure a block over and down
<snap-l> IT's a few blocks over.
<rick_h> there's a parking lot one block past SRT
<rick_h> across from the post office if the construction is over, jrwren ?
<snap-l> Is that still there?
<rick_h> he'd know the latest/greatest news
<rick_h> snap-l: think so, it was just blocked by construction and you could only get in the back way the next street over I thought
<rick_h> which made it further than the parking structure
<rick_h> Wolfger: and there's on the street parking as you can get it. THink the metering stops at 6 or 6:30pm?
<rick_h> again, jrwren should know, he was a bit street parker
<snap-l> I'll be so happy when the superbowl is over so my inbox can return to somewhat normal
<snap-l> every fucking restaurant I've subscribed to has some special going on
<rick_h> I'll be happy when the elections are over and my social networks can return to normal
<snap-l> rick_h: That too
<rick_h> no one gets my email!
<snap-l> I eagerly await the phone calls
<snap-l> and by phone calls, I mean the idiot celebrity endorsements.
<snap-l> robocalls
<snap-l> rick_h: Heh, I'm a whore for coupons
<rick_h> I get mugged at Kroger since I refuse to do their damn "membership card"
<snap-l> I won't shop there because of that
<krondor> meijer ftw
<rick_h> "what?! you don't have a card, why...that load of bread could be on sale!"
<brousch> yeah, go to meijers
<rick_h> yea, but mejier == down the hwy and kroger is across the street
<brousch> you buy bread buy the load?!
<rick_h> so weekly big trips are meijer, but short need things are kroger across the street
<snap-l> brousch: You have to at Kroger
<rick_h> brousch: oh yea
<snap-l> 1 load of bread = $10
<rick_h> sorry, typing bad so I can justify the keyboard when it comes :P
<snap-l> 1 loaf of bread = $1.50
<rick_h> I'll have fewer typos when the UPS man gets off his !@#$@
<snap-l> rick_h: *coughbullshitcough*
<brousch> why is he sitting on a perl?
<rick_h> hey, don't crush my dreams!
<snap-l> Though I can fully appreciate new keyboard
<snap-l> you start doing all of the ergonomic typing things that you should be doing all along because it's a new keyboard
<snap-l> and not the slouchy stuff that you do with a not-new keyboard
<Wolfger> snap-l: so a load is just shy of 7 loafs?
<snap-l> 1 load = 10 loafs
<Wolfger> or is there a slight discount for bulk?
<snap-l> with discount card
<rick_h> it's like a bakers dozen
<rick_h> you get one extra
<rick_h> 1load = 11 loafs
<snap-l> but if you buy one, you get it for regular price.
 * snap-l hates that shit too
<snap-l> That's why I <3 meijer
<snap-l> 3 for $10 doesn't mean that 1 == $4.50
<snap-l> it means 1 = $3.33
<Wolfger> snap-l: it means you pay an extra penny for the third one??? That's an outrage!
<snap-l> Well, or however that works
 * snap-l should have used a number that divided nicely, but you get the point
<Wolfger> Your point is you don't want to save money per unit for buying in bulk?
<snap-l> Meijer may be Dutch, but they don't put the screws to their customers
<snap-l> oh FFS
<Wolfger> heh
<snap-l> Wolfger: No, I mean Kroger does (or did shit) where you had to buy ridiculous quantities of things to get the discount
<snap-l> so you'd have to buy 4 cans of tuna when you only wanted one in order to get the discount.
<Wolfger> The infamous 10 for $10
<snap-l> That's actually not too bad
<snap-l> We can usually pick up enough 10 for $10
<Wolfger> I love 10 for 10 on bricks of cheese
<snap-l> Cheese decimation. ;)
<Wolfger> ftw
<brousch> via the Twitters DM: @alexDGS Know anyone who you could call a 'Linux Engineer' looking for a job in MI?
<brousch> Diskless Workstations guy I think
<_stink_> brousch: yep, you got it
<rick_h> damn code reviews are tough
<rick_h> I'd NEVER let code like that through, but it's how the rest of it is currently, and seems to work...and ugh
<rick_h> but damn is that UGLY code
<ColonelPanic001> I assume rick_h is referring to using 3 spaces instead of 4.
<rick_h> heh, not quite
<brousch> tabs
<greg-g> say that: "This matches the style of the code around it, but, it seems to be a bit messy/ugly. Approved for the sake of fixing a bug, but lets work on improving this section iteratively soon." or somesuch
<greg-g> rick_h: ^
<snap-l> rick_h: Heh
<snap-l> greg-g: Yo should be a diplomat
<greg-g> not a bad gig, really
<greg-g> who wants to be president so I can be a diplomat?
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, that's where I ended up. I had to chat with my mentor
<snap-l> How about you be president, and I'll be the diplomat
<rick_h> basically, because he's on the other side of the world, it's tough to block his work
<rick_h> but I did up a demo of the 'pretty' way and tried to make "optional suggestions"
<greg-g> rick_h: oh, and that added dimension sucks
<greg-g> well done :)
<rick_h> but yea, it's tough because your job as reviewer is to catch issues
<rick_h> but on the other hand there's the teaching, the standards keeping, etc
<greg-g> not to be a teacher, necessarily?
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h> but what is "lesson" and what is "no, you cannot land this change like this"
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h> anyway, fun morning, how we all doing :)
<snap-l> Cleaning up code to make testing easier
<snap-l> funnily enough, it'll make everything easier, so go figure. ;)
<rick_h> yea, the trouble is that cleaning can turn into a never ending saga and there's that matter of opinion in there
<snap-l> Yeah, trying not to go into the weeds
<snap-l> But it's OH SO EASY!
 * Wolfger imagines President Harding and Diplomat Grossmeier...
<Wolfger> some poor country is going to get bombed.
<snap-l> Screw your domestic policy, show me the code
<Blazeix> "djibouti? that sounds suspiciously like django. kill 'em"
<Wolfger> Yeah, what am I thinking... Other countries are safe, congress would get reamed for writing convoluted laws, though.
<snap-l> "WHAT?!?! PEP8 FAILS?!? 0% test coverage?!? Say hello to God for me, motherfuckers."
<greg-g> Blazeix: lol
<greg-g> actually, lolz all around ;)
<rick_h> I'm so happy to have a group that "understands" me so
<rick_h> and they say online communities aren't real :P
<Wolfger> Ha!
<greg-g> GROUP HUG!
<greg-g> fine
<rick_h> always the hippy wants to hug :P
<greg-g> :)
 * rick_h is now curious if SF deals end in hugs instead of hand shakes
<greg-g> only the best deals
 * snap-l did not see "hand shakes"
<greg-g> lol
<greg-g> you guys, I was supposed to be getting work done!
<snap-l> Too late
<rick_h> bah, I'm putting off more code reviews
<rick_h> ugh
<rick_h> I mean, wtf does this really do? https://code.launchpad.net/~adeuring/launchpad/bug-829074/+merge/91302
<rick_h> and for the curious https://code.launchpad.net/~wallyworld/launchpad/confirm-reviewer-subscription-330290/+merge/90070
<greg-g> "You do not currently have access to the pastebin." in nice big bold letters
<greg-g> (don't really care, just thought it was funny)
<rick_h> oh, didn't realize it was private
<snap-l> I could see both links
<greg-g> just the paste.canonical thing
<rick_h> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/vkISyRtfZ4JZGROrfj6k/
<rick_h> yea, I try not to put links to my own pastebin in LP things that could be around a while
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h> I know I had to sign into it, but didn't realize the pastebin @canonical was private/locked out
<rick_h> good to know
<snap-l> ugh
<snap-l> Line 145+
<snap-l> https://code.launchpad.net/~wallyworld/launchpad/confirm-reviewer-subscription-330290/+merge/90070
<rick_h> snap-l: that's actually ok
<rick_h> this requires a lot of modules and each test file is completely indepenant and doesn't use combo loaded files/etc so that the tests are pure
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> Bah, I'm an idjit
<snap-l> Thought that was inline in a python file. Sorry
<rick_h> lol, no all of this is JS
<snap-l> Yeah, that'll teach me to skim
<greg-g> just fyi, the other channel I'm in just had a group hug :P
<greg-g> I may or may not have instigated it
<rick_h> hah, greg-g is going elsewhere for his needs since we don't satisfy
<greg-g> complimentary, not replacement
<greg-g> </diplomat>
<Wolfger> I hate Microsoft Outlook with the burning passion of a thousand suns.
<Wolfger> or possibly just the way Chrysler has it set up, I dunno.
<rick_h> that's ok, just hate on outlook
<rick_h> works for us
<Wolfger> corporate IT has a funny way of making bad things even worse
<MonkeyJuiCe> groupwise rules
<Wolfger> My coworkers have become accustomed to me spontaneously saying "I hate Microsoft" (sometimes/often with an expletive) multiple times per day
<Wolfger> MonkeyJuiCe: I'm not familiar with Groupwise, but it sounds too much like ProjectWise for me to have a good opinion of it.
<MonkeyJuiCe> it sucks lol so dont even look
<Wolfger> although I'm nearly positive that ProjectWise isn't as bad as the way we use it makes it.
<MonkeyJuiCe> state of michigan uses groupwise  ..
<MonkeyJuiCe> well did when i was there
<rick_h> scary http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/02/visualizing-facebooks-media-store-how-big-is-100-petabytes/
<brousch> woohoo! i recovered access to the GRPUG google app engine account
<brousch> been working on that for a month
<krondor> MonkeyJuiCe:  I wouldn't call GroupWise worse than Outlook.  I think I hate all corp mail clients though.
<krondor> note I've designed too many Exchange and GroupWise systems to have an untainted opinion.  Squirrelmail/Horde/Roundcube for all I say.
<brousch> gmail is the only true webmail
<krondor> gmail is indeed the best
<brousch> roundcube was awesome 5 years ago. it has not changed since then
<brousch> i had such high hopes
<krondor> yeah I see S/MIME and PGP is still on their planned features list 5 years running :|
<brousch> where is the slick python webmail?
<krondor> along with rules and filters (ugh)
<brousch> roundcube got LDAP and then stopped doing anything
<krondor> gmail is too good so I think everyone has given up, well except for fat clients.  They still update.
<brousch> wow, i totally read that as "fat chicks"
<brousch> someone needs to CoC-slap me
<rick_h> man, keyboards with number pads are so huge!
<brousch> you need to grow another arm and hand to use it properly
<Wolfger> snap-l: All the case you'll ever need -> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Build-a-Lego-Computer/
<snap-l> Oh, nice. :)
<snap-l> Though I'd be pretty worried about static electricity
<rick_h> damn...IE testing/working coming up in LP discussion
<rick_h> I forsee a LOT of IE JS testing in my future :/
<brousch> might as well switch to windows
<rick_h> brousch: don't make me get your voodoo doll out
<brousch> i thought i saw you collecting my hairs in the middle of the night
<rick_h> new book I've been reading :P
<snap-l> Is that an O'Reilly book?
<brousch> no, it's a for dummies
<snap-l> "Vodoo: The Definitive Guide"
<snap-l> Followed by "Head First Vodoo"
<brousch> http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Voodoo/dp/0028642368/
<rick_h> oh hell, they're even debating IE6 support
<brousch> why does a search for "voodoo for dummies" return "sex for dummies"?
<snap-l> rick_h: OH HELL NO
<snap-l> IE6 is dead
<rick_h> debating, I don't know it's more than 20% atm
<snap-l> Do NOT screw the corpse of IE back to life
<brousch> also, you should support netscape
<snap-l> no no no no no
<rick_h> heh, for sure man!
<snap-l> Maybe you could support HTML3 too
<snap-l> table formatting FTW
<brousch> if i can't use launchpad on my win95 virtual machine then FU in the neck. you are FAIL
<snap-l> MOSAIC would like some Launchpad love too
<rick_h> grrr, pyinotify daemonize isn't playing nice
<rick_h> so so close
<greg-g> I just deposited a check using my phone. I live in the future.
<rick_h> greg-g: isn't it great!
<greg-g> especially when you are the point person for a house of 5 rooms/checks per/mo, yep!
<rick_h> nice
<snap-l> Yeah, I had fun explaining how that all worked.
<snap-l> Wondering at what point the check will just disappear altogeter
<snap-l> It's not too far off, IMHO
<snap-l> Though I wonder how quickly it'll be before there's automated ways to intercept check images
<brousch> not long. thanks for the deposit greg-g!
<brousch> i'll put it towards a new car
<rick_h> hah
<greg-g> heh, apropos form another channel:
<greg-g> paroneayea: I mean, it really isn't much different than reality, if it is contested it is contested.
<greg-g> paroneayea: though, now there was a scan of my signature (you still have to endorse the back) that went from my phone to their servers, sure hope it was encrypted
<greg-g> and I hope that image isn't saved on my phone somewhere I don't know about but could be hacked by some other evil app I install
<greg-g> I just used hacked how journalists do!
<snap-l> Aw, I'm telling...
<brousch> lol, some bad language http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGxKhUuZ0Rc&feature=youtu.be
<snap-l> mitechie: ah buckling spring keyboard how I missed you...the firmness, the travel...the shape of those nice pyramid keycaps. Ahhhhh
<snap-l> Get. A. Room.
<rick_h> snap-l: lol, you saw the get a room response?
<snap-l> No, that was my response.
<rick_h> https://twitter.com/#!/bitprophet/status/165161529522651137
<snap-l> Didn't know I was in the majority opinion. ;)
<snap-l> hah, that's awesome.
<rick_h> let's just say it was shared
<brousch> and make sure the room is soundproof
<rick_h> actually the sound on this one is a bit lower/deeper which I find easier to ignore than the cherry blues I think.
<rick_h> they're higher pitched a bit
<brousch> i don't want to hear you banging away
<snap-l> KL-PING
<snap-l> KL-PING
<snap-l> KL-PING
<brousch> on your keyboard
<rick_h> come on, let's do a hangout
<rick_h> :)
<snap-l> Bring it to CHC
<tjagoda> OMG KEYBOARD SO AWESOME
<tjagoda> This actually markedly improves my typing accuracy
<tjagoda> Turns out it was shoddy keyboards all these years, and not growing senility
<rick_h> tjagoda: you gets yours today as well?
<tjagoda> Yep
<rick_h> awesome, congrats
<tjagoda> Two keys were dislodged during shipping
<tjagoda> But they went back on easy enough
<rick_h> yea, the keys on these things aren't bad to take off when you need to
<rick_h> they're pretty heavy duty
<tjagoda> I wish I could order ubuntu keys for it to replace the windows keys
<tjagoda> =(
<rick_h> yea, that's the only problem with these
<rick_h> the cherry keyboards have a lot more custom keycaps options
<rick_h> since a lot more makers of keyboards use the cherry mx switches
<rick_h> but only pckeyboards there can make these
<tjagoda> Its so weighty that it doesn't slide around my desk as I type
<tjagoda> I enjoy this
<mydogsnameisrudy> what do you use to edit code ?
<tjagoda> I am also glad I live alone, considering how much noise this makes
<tjagoda> Wonder if it will be good for gaming.  Its awesome for general typing.
<tjagoda> lol
<tjagoda> ALT and Windows are in the wrong spot
<tjagoda> Talk about several moments of confusion
<rick_h> tjagoda: meh, they're right. Just going to have to adjust :)
<rick_h> mydogsnameisrudy: vim is the one true answer
<tjagoda> I just flipped the key around
<rick_h> heh, that works as well
<rick_h> most of my keyboards are ctrl-meta-alt though
<tjagoda> This one was CTRL-ALT-META
<tjagoda> I made it CTRL-META-ALT
<rick_h> is it? I thuoght you got the same keyboard I did
<tjagoda> I did
<snap-l> tjagoda: Did you order the mac version?
<tjagoda> nope
<tjagoda> I think somebody just misassembled it
<snap-l> Check the model #
<tjagoda> The button puts out the right signal
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<tjagoda> The plastic bits were just swapped around
<snap-l> tjagoda: They just thought you should have a Mac.
<tjagoda> Over my dead body!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-03
<mydogsnameisrudy> is there a way to turn on number lines in vim
<greg-g> Q: Is there a way to $Do_Something in vim? A: Yes.
<mydogsnameisrudy> just a noob ?
<Blazeix> mydogsnameisrudy: :set nu
<mydogsnameisrudy> thx
<Blazeix> :set nonu to turn it off
<mydogsnameisrudy> ok so it has to be set every time
<Blazeix> mydogsnameisrudy: put it a file called ~/.vimrc in your home directory
<mydogsnameisrudy> ah got it thx again
<tjagoda> I bet rick_h's .vimrc is like 300 lines long
<rick_h> https://github.com/mitechie/pyvim/blob/master/.vimrc 612 with comments
<mydogsnameisrudy> mine had 1 line ;)
<tjagoda> It has dependencies?!
<rick_h> but of course!
<mydogsnameisrudy> ah hmmm i much to learn...
<Blazeix> tjagoda: you're stepping into a whole new world. hang on...
<tjagoda> rick_h has not yet moved out of github and into launchpad!
<rick_h> heh, I still <3 git
<rick_h> I'm not sold on this bzr stuff
<rick_h> ugh
<rick_h> besides, I've got 41 watchers of my pyvim repo :)
<tjagoda> lol
<tjagoda> My launchpad participation is sporadic, as my extra free time comes and goes
<jrwren> git > bzr
<jrwren> want evidence?
<jrwren> checking a 1GB file.
<jrwren> then say ooops.
<jrwren> and you want to delete it from history.
<jrwren> git can
<jrwren> bzr can't
<rick_h> heh
<rick_h> yea, I'm fighting with people sworn to bzr "it's so user friendly..."
<rick_h> *sigh*
<rick_h> hate to break it to you, the best tools are never the user friendly ones, that's why they're user friendly
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> and sure... its user friendly, i fyou are used to cvs or svn.
<jrwren> but its NOT user friendly when you have painted yourself into a corner and are stuck.
<jrwren> git is more difficult at first becuase its putting you on the path to success.
<rick_h> yep, and "it's almost as fast as git" if you do 4 different things that aren't defaults to make things quicker
<rick_h> default bzr is still slow as @#$#@$
<jrwren> and if you do paint yourself into a corner with git, it is easy to get out. that is not really true of bzr
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> speed matters.
<jrwren> i used bzr for a couple years.
<jrwren> then hg for a couple years
<jrwren> and now git :)
<jrwren> so I htink I can speak to them all reasonable well.
<rick_h> yea, same here, except I've got this 4th step of back to bzr
<jrwren> i used to be one of those "its easier" guys
<jrwren> and I'll be first to admit, I was wrong
<rick_h> bzr->hg->git-> aw crap really? bzr
<jrwren> yar, that sucks.
<rick_h> heh yea, I remember when I was saying "man, git seems like a fanboi movement, like django or rails"
<jrwren> yup.
<snap-l> Heh, I  remember that phase
<snap-l> and now I'm a git fanboi
<rick_h> snap-l: welcome to the club :)
<tjagoda> So
<rick_h> So party!
<tjagoda> How long before Rick_H single handedly rips Bzr from launchpad and replaces it with git
<rick_h> tjagoda: hehe, that's *never* going to happen. LP and bzr go together like Linux and gcc
<tjagoda> Typing on the new keyboard is very satisfying
<tjagoda> I enjoy its solid metal construction.
<rick_h> tjagoda: there you go, now you have a solid weapon if someone comes after you :)
<tjagoda> Keyboard AND home defense weapon.
<Blazeix> reminds me of the cell phone with crime deterrent http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgoVrAR3YOo
<snap-l> Interview with Severed Fifth uploading
<tjagoda> OMG
<tjagoda> Crime deterrent
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2012/02/02/open-metalcast-special-interview-episode-severed-fifth-liberate/
<rick_h> morning, yay friday
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning ..
<snap-l> Gooooood morning
<mydogsnameisrudy> my old brain is in pain.. heh
<rick_h> snap-l: interview stuff all go well?
<Wolfger> Friday! \o/
<tjagoda> Ahoy
<Wolfger> yarr
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, it was a really good interview
<snap-l> If anyone wants to give some reddit love to the interview... ;)
<rick_h> linky?
<snap-l> One sec
<brousch> i think the sum total of everything i've done on reddit is up-vote 3 of snap-l's posts
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/Metal/comments/p983q/severed_fifth_liberate_releases_today_open/
<snap-l> Heh
<tjagoda> EDI makes me hate life.
<tjagoda> I love how the entire Auto Industry disregards AIAG standards despite the fact that they had major input in creating them in the first place.
<tjagoda> FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU AIAG!
<snap-l> tjagoda: You should know by now that any time the industry creates a standard, it's mostly to get folks off their back so they can get back to doing what they want to be doing
<snap-l> "Here, here's a standards group. Now go play in a freeway while I get shit done"
<brousch> i will change my name to this symbol, kind of like the artist formerly known as prince did http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f4a9/index.htm
<mydogsnameisrudy> u"\U0001F4A9"
<snap-l> brousch: I'm totally stealing that and putting it on plus. :)
<tjagoda> I do not understand this joke, because I do not understand the artist formerly known as prince. =(
<snap-l> tjagoda: So, when did you first realize you were dead to me?
<snap-l> brousch: Please change your nick accordingly, and remember to update launchpad.
<brousch> tjagoda: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_(musician)#The_New_Power_Generation_and_name_change:_1991.E2.80.9394
<brousch> ð©
<brousch> hm, doesn't work in pidgin yet
<snap-l> Font doesn't support it
<snap-l> I think there's only two known fonts that support it
<brousch> in honor of this i declare it to be a "blasting poo armageddon" day
<brousch> snap-l: thanks :P
<brousch> oooh, a python conference in chicago http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/1/prweb8945991.htm
<brousch> that's 2 hours closer to me than columbus
<tjagoda> So
<tjagoda> Whose mailing out brousch's floppy disks?
<brousch> eh?
<tjagoda> brousch: the floppy disks full of your font symbol!
<brousch> ug, it will be nice getting the grpug site off of GAE
<brousch> too many hacks to make it work right
<tjagoda> Hope I get my follow up from Canonical today
<tjagoda> Or I will spend the entire weekend in enraged wonderment
<brousch> good luck!
<tjagoda> I'll just have rick call up Matt and demand a timeline
<tjagoda> I'm sure he's good with that
<tjagoda> =P
<jrwren> i hope i get a follow up for a new job too!
<jrwren> I'd actually be working with linux and python \m/
<brousch> whaaaaat?
<jrwren> i know, the world is gonna end.
 * brousch smells a troll
<jrwren> well, I've been doing objective-c for my day job for a couple months now. No more MSFT
<krondor> ooh byobu has tmux in 12.04?  My new fun thing to play with today.
<snap-l> Yeah, tmux is quickly replacing screen
<brousch> jrwren: where is it?
<jrwren> arbor networks
<jrwren> i fear the tmux
<rick_h> jrwren: awesome man, seemed cool when they hosted the python group
<jrwren> i'm still ctrl-a for everything in byobu, i turn off the F1-F12 bindings. I hope it is easy to do the same in byobu 12.04
<jrwren> rick_h: they have a new locaiton, beautiful building down on state street.
<rick_h> I switched to tmux but mapped ctrl-a as well
<jrwren> rick_h: and DAMN do they interview... I got awesome deep questions.
<rick_h> no byobu
<rick_h> jrwren: very cool, we'll have to chat about it some time
<jrwren> rick_h: well, I hope they make me a good offer :)
<rick_h> I was blown away by a position with them once I was thinking of tring to get in for python stuff
<rick_h> but seems there you do python, c, perl, anything
<snap-l> jrwren: Oh damn! Congrats!
<rick_h> jrwren: defintely
<jrwren> yup, its definitely an EVERYTHING job
<jrwren> but I look forward to getting great at python... instead of being python nub
<jrwren> rick_h: tcl too!
<rick_h> jrwren: hah, awesome
<snap-l> jrwren: Well, I guess I'd better ask you if we can use SRT for the Global Jam in March. :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Oh God, not TCL
<jrwren> snap-l: i'm sure that will still be fine. I'm not gonna burn any bridges here.
<jrwren> <3 SRT
<snap-l> jrwren: Whom do I need to put a bug in the ear?
<jrwren> i can be your point of contact
<snap-l> jrwren: Ok, awesome
<jrwren> but tell me the date so I can save it on my calendar and be here.
<snap-l> Haven't decided for sure, but thinking it'll be on the 3rd of March
<snap-l> Afternoon, like last time
<snap-l> hopefully not a home game, like last time. ;)
<jrwren> that isn't football season.
<jrwren> maybe march madness :)
<krondor> ctrl bindings have some issues for me in things like miniterm.py / minicom.  Fx bindings are welcome.
<snap-l> jrwren: heh
<jrwren> i ctrl-a, a like a pro
<snap-l> krondor: You're still using minicom?
<snap-l> God, haven't fired that up in years
<snap-l> but yeah, serial ports, embedded hardware.
<jrwren> to talk to network equipment via serial I assume?
<snap-l> yeah
<snap-l> Just thought he'd use Kermit like everyone else. ;)
 * snap-l hated Kermit
<krondor> jrwren++
<snap-l> it besmirched the good name of Kermits everywhere
<snap-l> jrwren: Please let me know if there's a conflict, otherwise will plan around SRT being available.
<snap-l> Wow, Pycon has 1500 attendees
<tjagoda> Remove attendees
<rick_h> yea, going to be epic
<tjagoda> replace with fanboys
<tjagoda> =p
<jrwren> that is huge.
<rick_h> yea, first time they've sold out like this
<rick_h> came close last year, but think it was something like 1300 people
<Wolfger> yikes
<Wolfger> that's a lot of Pythonistas
<snap-l> Figures, the one year that I'd like to get work to pay for it, they sell out. :)
<rick_h> many a line of code written in that 1.5wk
<snap-l> Wonder if there's an official metric of how much code gets generated in that time
<rick_h> it's funny to think about. I was going "yea, but only a few hundred will stay behind for sprints"
<rick_h> but that's the size of pyohio +
<snap-l> Yeah, exactly
<snap-l> PyOhio sprints were about 10% of that
<snap-l> if that
<rick_h> ok, time to hit the coffee shop, need a chance of scenery
<snap-l> chance of scenery? :)
<snap-l> Lovely landscapes?
<brousch> no chance of that today
<tjagoda> Its chance because he rolls dice to pick which coffee shop he goes to
<snap-l> Caribou
<snap-l> Just down the street from him
<snap-l> Wolfger: We have to get you on the Python bandwagon
<snap-l> At least get you out to PyOhio
<tjagoda> The closest coffee shop from my house is a Tim Hortons
<tjagoda> 15 mintues
<snap-l> tjagoda: Nothing wrong wtih that.
<Blazeix> ugh, Tim Hortons are disgusting. at least the ones in farmington hills
<Blazeix> they feel like a dingy mcdonalds
<snap-l> Blazeix: The closer to the mothership (Canada) the better they are
<snap-l> but yeah, the ones by us are pretty dreadfu
<tjagoda> Americans do not understand Timmies.
<rick_h> tjagoda: yea, caribou .5mi away
<rick_h> I should walk up here and when it's warmer I bike up here
<rick_h> Blazeix: exactly, I hear of these mythical great Tim Hortons, but it sure seems to me I'd be better off at a dunkin donuts in a gas station somewhere en route to Dallas TX
 * snap-l makes a note to take rick_h to a proper Timmies
<brousch> our tim hortons is very nice, but the food is bland
 * rick_h gets his passport ready since that seems the only way to experience this magical experience
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Port Huron
<snap-l> Just by the bridge
<brousch> rick_h: we ate at a decent tim hortons in columbus at pyohio
<rick_h> brousch: yea, I think the thing is that the fans have talked it up so much the donuts would have to be served by chocolate unicorns to keep up
<snap-l> We'll take JoDee there, since she likes to look at greighters
<snap-l> freighters, rather
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, we need to lower your expectations
<jrwren> Blazeix: ++  Tim Hortons IS the mcdonalds of canada
<snap-l> They're good, but not chocolate unicorns shitting glitter good
<tjagoda> More Tim Hortons than starbucks in Canada
<brousch> the onuts are good, but my tim hortons is 1/3 mile away from the best apple fritters in west michigan
<tjagoda> But also a ludicrous number of McDonalds in Canada
<snap-l> brousch: HAppy Yum Yum Fun Time Donuts and Chinese Food?
<brousch> marge's donut den
<snap-l> I'm surprised
<rick_h> heh
<brousch> http://www.margesdonutden.com/
<snap-l> That's funny, she doesn't look asian. :)
<brousch> little hole in the wall that's been there since before i was born
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<brousch> coffee sucks though
<snap-l> I'm sure it's been brewing since before you were born too
<brousch> i wouldn't doubt it
<snap-l> West MI has no idea how to make a decent cup of coffee
<brousch> there was one place, but it went out of business
<rick_h> what?! coffee not selling?
<rick_h> must have been a business challenged person
<brousch> i think so
<rick_h> seems like every places is trying to sell coffee and doing it these days
<brousch> it was open 24 hours, but was so dead between midnight and 7am that i would walk in on the owner sleeping on the couch
<snap-l> rick_h: That's because it keeps people in the store longer
<brousch> they needed a drive-thru
<snap-l> Yeah, some Biggby locations have drive-thru
<rick_h> drive-thru ftw, it's how I meet my caribou quota
<snap-l> Handy, save for when you're working from home, and the place is closed when you try the drive-thru
<brousch> my biggby has a drive-thru
<brousch> mostly why i go there
<snap-l> I like Biggby coffee too
<snap-l> the one on John R is a bitch to get in and out of, though
<snap-l> Had two of them by us in Macomb
<snap-l> Something tells me I'm never getting the vacation pay from $LASTJOB.
<snap-l> since it was supposed to be "end of month"
<_stink_> >:|
<snap-l> which was in January
<snap-l> However, since I left, their stock is going up
<rick_h> hmmm, that's not promising
<snap-l> Just call me the lead weight. ;)
<Wolfger> Damn. When I leave companies, they go out of business
<snap-l> Wolfger: You're never leaving Chrysler, then. The government will see to that. ;)
<tjagoda> lol
<rick_h> my new hero: http://codeslinger.posterous.com/if-youre-using-nodejs-youre-doing-life-wrong
<rick_h> says the guy that's written node code a few times
<tjagoda> lol
<Blazeix> how is yui on nodejs? does it fix a few of those issues?
<rick_h> some I guess, since you're using YUI modules you get some namespacing
<rick_h> doens't do anything for V8, callback fun, etc
<Blazeix> if you're doing the mvc stuff, i'd think that would fix some of the callback chains
<Blazeix> since you have a more eventy model
<rick_h> yea, but that's just the logic part. You've still got to get the routing/request processing and response setup done
<Blazeix> going to lunch, but this is an interesting discussion...
<rick_h> node.js is really pretty bare bones, now you end up stacking a framework on top like anything else
<rick_h> yea, have fun at lunch
<rick_h> *sigh* bzr, I want to believe...but quit sucking!!!!
<snap-l> heh
 * Wolfger gets rick_h one of those X-Files "I want to believe" posters
<Wolfger> how many years (months?) til you convert LP to Git or quit in disgust?
<rick_h> hah, there you go
<rick_h> I've just got to make it until the end of the year and I'll get something different with a diferent stack of tools (though still not git in all likelyhood)
<rick_h> dammit, why does a bzr push take *minute(s)* at 400kB/s?
<Wolfger> because awesomeness takes its time?
<Wolfger> It's cool, like The Fonz. Nobody ever rushes The Fonz.
<brousch> Wolfger++
<rick_h> dammit bzr, why are you trying to f@#$#ing upload 202MB of data? and dying at that point, which means it wants to upload more
<brousch> your code sure is bloated
<brousch> you including the Eclipse executable in there?
<rick_h> doh, you're not supposed to see that
<rick_h> and all my java stack since it's a build requirement now
<jrwren> wtf?
 * jrwren stops using canonical software
<jrwren> tehy cannot be trusted
<rick_h> :)
<rick_h> heh, there we go. Had to make a new branch off of dev, merge the branch that was having push issues, and then push from the new branch
<rick_h> finally
<Wolfger> see? You were just using it wrong. :-)
<rick_h> ummm yea, that's it
<Wolfger> lol
<brousch> you're pushing it wrong. try using the other hand
<rick_h> ah, needed the *other* bzr push command
<snap-l> Anyone got a link to the CoC? Keep this up, and I'll need to smack myself with it
<rick_h> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6206556/running-scripts-within-pyramid-framework-ie-without-a-server
 * rick_h goes off to cry in a corner
<tjagoda> No emails yet from canonical
<tjagoda> As Darth Vader would say
<tjagoda> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<snap-l> rick_h: There there, it's not a completely stupid question
<snap-l> and remember, there's no stupid questions, only stupid people.
<rick_h> snap-l: I can't help but read that and hear in my head "So, I've built this thin on top of a web framework that accepts a 'request" parameter and I do stuff with it...now how to I NOT use that on a web server but from something like cron...you know...totally different?"
<brousch> it has the kernel of a good question
<brousch> how to use the same database and settings from my pyramid app in a cron job
<rick_h> an no one in there goes "dude, wtf...break apart the code that does the cron part and import it into your web app and your cron script...done"
<rick_h> they're all full of firing off little mini wsgi servers and firing off a request to it
<snap-l> rick_h: eah, but the kernel of the question is "Look, I already set up all this stuff to interface with stuff. I don't want to decouple that and have to duplicate effort"
<snap-l> rick_h: THAT part pisses me off
<snap-l> if you have to fire up a web server to do automated processes, you're doing it wrong
<rick_h> right!
<rick_h> but no one says that in all those answers
<snap-l> Save for the "It's in Pyramid"
<rick_h> snap-l: hehe " Build failed in Jenkins: staples_dash #255"
<rick_h> guess I'm still somewhere
<snap-l> *cough*useworkemailforwork*cough*
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h> snap-l: uh huh...because work allows for perfect open imap access so I could get it at home in case builds failed didn't it...
<rick_h> oh right! it's firewalled and blocked off like a mofo that requires vpn :P
<snap-l> *cough*kerio*cough*
<brousch> oh man, i have people here who are failing to understand that. damn fools bought android phones and hooked it to their work google account
<snap-l> rick_h: Also got VPN working pretty well. :)
<rick_h> snap-l: cool, yea it works pretty well just not great from a phone
<rick_h> snap-l: I ended up running an smtp relay server off my desktop that was ssh tunnelled through my colo server so I could smtp without the vpn
<snap-l> Ah, right
<Wolfger> listening to rick_h's bzr woes, I now have "p-push it real good" stuck in my head
<brousch> good song
<rick_h> heh, glad I can help
<krondor> Trying to play with octopress it is now clear to me I have no clue what I'm doing with ruby.
<rick_h> heh
<krondor> seriously I can't even get rvm working on ubuntu (but I am blaming my work proxy on blowing up rvm install so far)
<krondor> bah this needs more caffeine brb
<rick_h> I think rbenv is the hot kid on the block now
<rick_h> just heads up
<snap-l> Bah
<jrwren> rvm is pretty damn easy to roll... must be your proxy.
<jrwren> can you get through it with HTTP_PROXY env var ?
<snap-l> What does rbenv offer now? Do I just run sudo and let it configure itself automagically?
<jrwren> you shouldn't sudo at all.
<jrwren> the whole point is that it is a non system environment
<brousch> like virtualenv, right?
<rick_h> yea
<snap-l> jrwren: That's my biggest beef with the ruby community
<rick_h> snap-l: you're thinking node :P
<snap-l> rick_h: pfft
<jrwren> they don't care about wasting disk space... they just want to get shit done.
<snap-l> jrwren: "Just download this unprotected script from github, and let us do the heavy lifting"
<jrwren> :)
<snap-l> After which you install half-of-the-fucking-net just to make something work
<brousch> is there no cheeseshop for ruby?
<rick_h> sure, rubygems.org or net or something
<rick_h> but if you think getting python packages, keeping up to date, etc is a pain...gems are 5x worse
<jrwren> that has not been my experience.
<jrwren> bundler makes it damn easy, and you can install the gem per project instead of per system.
<rick_h> really? my experience has been that people are much more likely to want you to just pull from github than to do tested releases
<jrwren> yes, that is true
<brousch> maybe the github is tested
<jrwren> but the tools are built to make doing that VERY easy and without impacting cross project
<brousch> all of the ruby people i know are test crazy
<rick_h> Oh no doubt on installing per project and such. I just mean that the state of gems and sites like ruby gems are much less likely to be up to date/greatest vs pypi
<jrwren> gem install blah is the latest IME.
<jrwren> IIRC there are ways you can point gem to github
<rick_h> yea, a lot like pip in that way
<jrwren> so its the same as cpan or whatever else.
<rick_h> rgr
<snap-l> bundler is OK
<snap-l> it's just different enough to make things interesting
<krondor> I'm back and caffeinated but now I've decided my time wouldn't be wasted trying this at home w/ no proxy.
<krondor> woops didn't mean for that to be a notice :|
<rick_h> whoa, plugged my mifi into my desktop to charge and network manager in precise tried to turn it into a wired net connection
 * rick_h wonders if that'd work hmmm
<krondor> I expect it would depending on the mifi.
<snap-l> rick_h: Whenever I plugged in my iPhone, Ubuntu was all set to turn it into a connection
<snap-l> Of course I didn't have tethering set up
<krondor> yeah I've done it with my droids with usb tethering on it and it always just worked on ubuntu and opensuse.
<rick_h> yea, just found it strange since hte mifi is wifi only that charging it would pick it up as a device like that
<brousch> hm, did google just screw all of you galaxy nexus owners? http://www.droid-life.com/2012/02/03/google-no-longer-considers-verizons-lte-galaxy-nexus-to-be-a-developer-phone/
<krondor> I haven't really used a mifi much, but it wouldn't surprise me if its internals weren't that far off from android phones (linux core)
<rick_h> brousch: don't make me cry please...wtf
<krondor> I'm thinking fallout from vzw's meddling with google wallet support
<rick_h> come on, if that mean I will not get future android updates from google wtf!
<krondor> sucks, but I have no doubts the community support will remain strong
<rick_h> it was the whole point for getting this phone
<rick_h> right, but I got this phone so I could get updated android without cyanogen and crap
<krondor> rick_h:  I doubt you'd get cut out of updates, but maybe updates would need vzw blessing first so added time
<krondor> still sucks
<rick_h> well that was always assumed, but if it's not a dev phone...
 * rick_h goes off to get really fired up before going to his vzw store again to find out why calls aren't going throgh to his phone...
<brousch> looks like i sit on the droid for a while longer to see how this shakes out
<krondor> woot time to go home and try ruby again
<snap-l> rick_h: Oh man
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-04
<brousch> rick_h: http://www.droid-life.com/2012/02/03/google-issues-statement-regarding-cdma-nexus-devices/
<rick_h> brousch: yea, saw some of that. ugh I guess
<brousch> sounds like updates from google will keep coming, but maybe problems with 3rd party ROMs?
<rick_h> I'm not sure tbh
<brousch> had you started cutting yourself yet?
<rick_h> not yet, I finally got the new phone to work so I can make phone calls
<rick_h> so still reinstalling all my crap
<brousch> you were unable to make calls?
<rick_h> not without a headset or on speakerphone
<brousch> yikes
<rick_h> man, 2hrs ago I was pysched to stay up late hacking on bookie
<brousch> how'd you f it up?
<rick_h> now I'm tired and just want to make some popcorn and chill
<rick_h> brousch: don't know, required a new phone so that came today and seem to be getting straight now
<brousch> darn low quality android phones
<rick_h> heh yea...those cheap bits of plastic...if only there was a more expensive one I could get that I could *know* would work and be perfect
<rick_h> oh right...this damn nexus is supposed to be that
<rick_h> lmorchard: you heading out to pycon?
<lmorchard> rick_h: Alas, no, though like 1/2 of mozilla webdev other than me is
<rick_h> heh yea I figured there'd big a large group with all the stuff the Tivac crew and such have been up to and since it's out their way
<snap-l> OK< going to see if I can move these components to the new case without breaking everything
<rick_h> good luck snap-l
<tjagoda> Tile shopping is hard work.
<jrwren> true
<jrwren> floor tile?
<tjagoda> Floor and wall
<tjagoda> having the 20 year old bathroom redone
<tjagoda> Well
<tjagoda> Probably more than 20
<snap-l> huzzah, new case installed
<snap-l> Ah, computer is now 47C instead of 54C
<snap-l> although getting the motherboard to line-up was a bit of a chore
<snap-l> stupid ATX design
<rick_h> snap-l: congrats
<jjesse> what are we congrating?
<rick_h> snap-l: has his new case all put together and his pc cooler than it was
<rick_h> all without bodily harm to himself or others
<jjesse> yay
<snap-l> Thank you. :)
<snap-l> I only swore a few times too
<rick_h> heh
<rick_h> then it was a proper computer project
<rick_h> every time I build a machine I swear I'm not going to do it again
<rick_h> then I keep doing it
<jrwren> i never swear I never will again
<jrwren> becuase I know what the non-self-build market is like, and I'd not want to run that shit.
<jrwren> working on my car on the ohter hand... :)
<rick_h> I've lost track of the right cpu/socket/etc BS
<jrwren> ah... i don't track it until I need to do a build.
<jrwren> i only do a build ever 2 yrs.
<rick_h> yea, same here
<jrwren> id LOVE to get an ivy bridgethis summer
<rick_h> more than that for me since I've gone laptop
<rick_h> yea, that'll be the debate, do the desktop upgrade and keep the laptop, or upgrade the laptop and keep using the desktop
<jrwren> oh true, and now I need ot balance what new job gives me.
<jrwren> assuming its a new job
<rick_h> now that I'm home full time it's getting tempting to go all 8 core, dual video card, 16gb of ram monster desktop
<jrwren> i do laptop/desktop/laptop/server
<rick_h> server is now moved to ec2
<jrwren> oh yeah, that would be so sweet.
<rick_h> actually I need to go get that out of the DC soon
<jrwren> oh wow... server moved to ec2, interesting.
<rick_h> yea, dual ec2 small instances paid for as reserved high capacity instances
<jrwren> that won't work for me because my server serves movies and tv, i want it to work offline
<rick_h> ah, yea
<rick_h> my desktop does all my local server stuff
<jrwren> if only I didn't to movie/tv
<rick_h> but now that I've got three displays I'm starting to itch to not run synergy between them
<rick_h> and just have one master machine
<jrwren> understood
<jrwren> ATI has those 3-dvi out cards.
<rick_h> orly
<jrwren> but i've no idea what linux on desktop video cards are good.
<jrwren> yup.
<rick_h> I figured I'd end up doing some sort of dual SLI card setup
<jrwren> its called eyevision or something?
<jrwren> lemme look it up.
<rick_h> yea, true, I've been intel only for so long
<jrwren> eyefinity?
<jrwren> yes, so with two eyefinity, you can drive 6 displays :)
<rick_h> hah! now we're talking, room to grow lol
<jrwren> yup
<rick_h> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODQ0OA
<jrwren> but to just drive 3, get an eyefinity card.
<jrwren> there ya go
<rick_h> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXJF6UVJfxw lol, there you go
<jrwren> sadly, it is REALLY hard to find cards with 3 digital out... seems 1 is always analgy :(
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> which is whatever for me really
<rick_h> as long as it can show a terminal I can always have one display that's not the best
<jrwren> id agree, except it is really annoying when 2 are bright and clear and one is a little dim and blurry
<jrwren> anyway, off to ikea with fam.  l8r
<rick_h> fun!
<jrwren> kids gotta have something to put all them toys in :)
<snap-l> I had some trouble trying to do the Crossfire set-up
<snap-l> but I think it's because I have two cheap cards
<snap-l> 3450 and 5450
<brousch> geez
<brousch> one monitor is enough for anyone
<brousch> just make it 30"
<snap-l> brousch: Yep
<snap-l> And we only really need a P4
<brousch> fine, but i need 8GB RAM
<brousch> and a 512GB SSD
<snap-l> Riiiiiiight
<rick_h> https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/cNYeLKcrntc
<rick_h> one is never enough
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Your desk looks spooky
<snap-l> All of those lights in the background make it look MYSTERIOUS
<rick_h> whoooooooooh
<rick_h> the camera makes them seem stranger than they are
<snap-l> Yeah
<rick_h> it's just nice indirect light when I work
<rick_h> jrwren: man, you hate tags in your bookmarks? :P
<jrwren> actually the JS for the tag page isn't working too well for me in FF
<jrwren> taht is why I ain't tagging.
<jrwren> better pizza? benitos or jets?
<snap-l> I like Jets personally
<jrwren> i'm loving benitos lately, but its been a long time since i had jets.
<snap-l> So, now that Verizon has fucked the Galaxy Nexus owners, what's the new phone hotness?
<jrwren> iphone
<snap-l> As soon as they get Linux support, I'm all over it. :)
<snap-l> Until then, it's time for an Android
<Blazeix> the new rumored hotness is the galaxy s3
<Blazeix> and i'm not convinced the whole galaxy nexus thing is as bad as the tech blogs are making it out to be
<jrwren> what do you mean linux support?
<snap-l> Yeah, aparently it's just that they're holding off on CDMA support
<snap-l> because CDMA is shit
<snap-l> jrwren: I mean the ability to put music on the iPhone without using a Mac or Windows PC
<snap-l> I mean the ability to start the phone without having to plug into iTunes
<Blazeix> "Google still plans to support the devices directly via software updates."
<Blazeix> nothing to see hear, move along
<Blazeix> s/hear/here/
<snap-l> Yeah, someone jumped the gun
<snap-l> (gee, on the internet? whooda thunk it)
<jrwren> snap-l: as of iOS5 you can run w/out itunes
<jrwren> you don't need to sync to anything, because you sync to icloud
<jrwren> but yeah... to get music on the phone, you need itunes AFAIK
<snap-l> jrwren: Yes, I know, but I still can't use it to put music on
<snap-l> Frankly, I liked my iPhone
<jrwren> i love mine, but i also don't mind windows or osx.
<jrwren> i love it all.
<jrwren> i love linux
<jrwren> i love rms
<jrwren> i love microsoft
<jrwren> i'm a lover
<brousch> when apple stops suing people over things like the shape of a tablet i'll be all over it
<brousch> and when i can sideload programs i want
<brousch> when i can wrote programs for iOS without having to use OSX
<jrwren> has google never sued anyone?
<jrwren> i'm just curious
<snap-l> Not sure offhand
<Blazeix> i'm sure they have
<jrwren> i know they have been on defense a lot
<brousch> i don't know, but this BS apple is pulling in europe is maddening
<snap-l> Yes, it is
<brousch> getting devices banned in whole countires
<brousch> i will not support that kind of company
<jrwren> ha! goog has initiated an interesting one
<jrwren> what is aapl doing in eu?
<jrwren> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2011/01/facing-off-against-microsoft-google-wins-lawsuit-over-key-government-contract.html
<brousch> jrwren: seriously? you don't know?
<jrwren> no idea.
<jrwren> unless it is the banning of samsung devices.
<brousch> right
<jrwren> but IMO that is just good business.
<jrwren> its why AAPL is the most profitable company in the world.
<jrwren> AAPL is MSFT of 1998 or whenever MSFT was at its peak
<brousch> it is not the kind of business i can support
<jrwren> i wish i hadn't sold my stock :)
<brousch> i need more than profit
<jrwren> ethics?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-05
<brousch> non-evil
<brousch> lock-in annoys the piss out of me
<jrwren> lock-in is how they all make money
<brousch> i understand that
<brousch> it still annoys the piss out of me
<brousch> it is good business from the company's point of view. it is annoying from their customers'
<jrwren> i guess i just got old and accepted it.
<jrwren> it used to piss me off too
<brousch> it is easier to accept it
<brousch> costs a little more, but easier
<brousch> kind of like religeon
<jrwren> fighting it is just as religeous.
<jrwren> i boycotted amazon for 10 yrs over 1-click
<jrwren> to what end?
<jrwren> not enjoying the luxury of puchasing from amazon.
<jrwren> the only one who got hurt was me.
<brousch> your conscience was happier
<brousch> we have to make value judgments all of the time. not using apple is one i can make right now without undue hardship on myself
<brousch> if i end up getting heavily into mobile i may have to change my tune
<jrwren> my conscience was happier, you are right.
<brousch> if we boycotted everything we should we'd have to live in caves in the desert
<jrwren> true
<brousch> so i say pick a few that mean a lot to you and that maybe you have a chance of influencing
<jrwren> "its not that i like the empire, i hate it. but there is nothing i can do about it right now"
<brousch> limited will power
<jrwren> nah.
<jrwren> its not a matter of will
<brousch> i think it is. if i had the willpower to abandon my family i'd be occupying DC until they fix the software patent laws
<brousch> turn into RMS
<jrwren> is that really the best action you could take to effect change?
<jrwren> I don't think it is.
<snap-l> http://askearache.blogspot.com/2012/02/scorn-on-earache-1992-1996.html
<snap-l> JoDee's in the other room playing "Just Dance 3"
<jrwren> o_O
<jrwren> why do I know scorn?
<snap-l> they've been around for 20 years
<snap-l> just dropped off the face of the earth in 2011
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQW6GUlakWY&feature=related
<rick_h> jrwren: what version of FF? I've tested it ok in FF9 on ubuntu. Do you get any console errors/etc?
<jrwren> 10 on osx :(
<jrwren> i'm not sure... it might be me.
<jrwren> it renders weird too.
<rick_h> really? hmmm, looks fine in FF9 on linux. wtf...can you screenshot and check the console for me when you get a chance?
<rick_h> I rewrote the tag control using my own code so anything that's wrong I should be able to get fixed, just didn't realize it had issues
<rick_h> jrwren: make sure you clear the JS cache I guess
<rick_h> jrwren: since I don't cache bust urls yet, maybe you're in upgrade limbo between releases on the server?
<jrwren> when i get a chance.
<rick_h> jrwren: appreciate it, sorry it's giving you issues :/
<jrwren> i am usually using bookie in the middle of doing stuff at work, so i can't always take time out to investigate.
<jrwren> i've no complaints.
<jrwren> glad to have the service
<jrwren> but i'll find some time soon
<rick_h> jrwren: understand, I'll see if I can figure out a way to run some tests.
<rick_h> Worst case I can fire at some online browser test things and check it out there
<jrwren> nah, don't waste your time. odds are its me.
<rick_h> knowing FF10 and OSX helps
<jrwren> with my noscript nonsense :)
<rick_h> jrwren: oh yea nothing works without JS, but it should all be hosted from the server under HTTPS with nothing external but a GA link which should fail gracefully
<jrwren> i'm trusting bookie.us... but no others.
<jrwren> you using CDN js at all?
<jrwren> yeah, nothing external, so it should all work.
<rick_h> jrwren: no, it's all hosted via my own combo loader app now
<rick_h> was using a cdn for stuff for a short tim
<rick_h> time that is
<snap-l> Just saw Wall-E
<snap-l> Yes, I know I'm late to the party.
<Blazeix> excellent movie :)
<snap-l> Yeah, it is
<tjagoda> I would like to amend the socially accepted Calendar to include more hours in the weekend.
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> yes
<brousch> very sparse crowd at meijer's this morning. cinnamon rolls now. children's museum later.
<tjagoda> So I'm not the only American now watching the super bowl?
<brousch> is it on already?
<tjagoda> I hope not
<brousch> then how are you watching it now?
<snap-l> tjagoda is actually from the future
<snap-l> a future where we are all using Blackberry phones
<tjagoda> oh damn
<tjagoda> s/now/not
<snap-l> not you're talking
<snap-l> ;)
<tjagoda> I come from a future in which you have all seen the wisdom of giving me all your money.
<tjagoda> Please do so now.
<snap-l> And like most time-travelling stories, I will not be swayed by a man from the future
<tjagoda> Haven't you watched enough Star Trek?
<tjagoda> HE IS ALWAYS TRUSTWORTHY!
<snap-l> Only if it's a federation ship
<snap-l> the rest: notsomuch
<tjagoda> I'll spraypaint federation decals on my house.
<brousch> i plan to do that to my van
<tjagoda> Your gonna put a captain chair in the back with a seatbelt for your son
<tjagoda> a viewscreen of TNG episodes
<tjagoda> and then swerve and slam on brakes during every battle?
<brousch> like this http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Chaffee_type_shuttlepod
<brousch> (roger b chaffee was from GR)
<brousch> http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Chaffee_Type_shuttle_CGI_model.jpg
<brousch> i have a silver toyota sienna, so i think it could work
<tjagoda> I approve of this.
<snap-l> http://www.blog.thesietch.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/100_1610.JPG
<snap-l> http://www.automopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/startrek-tngshuttle.jpg
<snap-l> http://www.automopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/startrek-originalshuttle.jpg
<snap-l> I don't think that will work. :)
<tjagoda> I like the hubcaps
<tjagoda> Kind of impressive if they can survive an expressway
<brousch> yeah, probably no nacells
<jrwren> tjagoda: i haven't decided if i'll watch.
<jrwren> since i'm not sure when it starts, i guess i'm leaning toward no.
<tjagoda> I'll watch my remastered TNG episodes instead.
<tjagoda> Because they look like beautiful.
<jrwren> i must get this remastered TNG
<tjagoda> They only have a sampler out atm
<jrwren> do you ever listen to Startalk podcast with Niel deGrasse Tyson?
<tjagoda> by 2015 they'll have re-released all the seasons in HD.
<snap-l> Y'know, the DVDs are nice.
<snap-l> Does HD really add much to it?
<jrwren> if you really like trek, you must listen to the nichelle nicols episode and whoppie goldberg episodes. some VERY interesting startrek bg there
<snap-l> Also, did they try to "fix" thinkgs
<tjagoda> The effects, as it turns out, have ludicrious more detail that was lost in the old format video
<tjagoda> and negative, they did not fix
<jrwren> i hate it when they try to "fix" things
<tjagoda> which is why its still 4:3 aspect ratio
<jrwren> fuk george lucas and the new FX and geedo shooting first
<tjagoda> because they would have had to retouch effects to make it widescreen
<snap-l> tjagoda: Well, they tried fixing TOS
<tjagoda> Basically, old film re-captured with better cameras which actually show all the detail that was originally there
<snap-l> and that put me right off
<tjagoda> TNG is the right way to remaster
<tjagoda> TOS is the wrong way to remaster
<tjagoda> They might re-record some of the music tracks, not sure about that
<snap-l> tjagoda: Why?
<tjagoda> They sound much clearer
<tjagoda> dunno if thats from just a lot of processing or not
<snap-l> Probably to make it sound better on tinny speakers
<snap-l> Though are they re-recording, or remastering?
<snap-l> Huge difference between the two
<tjagoda> http://trekmovie.com/2011/11/14/new-trailer-for-star-trek-tng-remastered/
<tjagoda> See and believe
<jrwren> not sure I want to see the actresses in HD.
<jrwren> they looked good when I was 12
<jrwren> in HD, they will look gross.
<brousch> i'm sure marina sirtis is still hawt
<jrwren> dunno...i'll bet not
<jrwren> and gates mcfadden? no way.
<jrwren> although I guess she did look good on Dream On
<tjagoda> But inner light is remastered
<tjagoda> you can see Picard play a flute IN HD
<jrwren> nice.
<snap-l> Actually, they did redo the effects
<tjagoda> They did not
<snap-l> They did
<snap-l> They had to
<tjagoda> They did not!
<snap-l> The ship in the old series wasn't high definiition
<tjagoda> There is an explanation somewhere
<jrwren> dude, upscale converstion
<tjagoda> but there is a lot of detail on the original film that is just lost in transfers
<snap-l> I remembere they had to do the CGI models over again for the movies
<tjagoda> Thats only if you widen the aspect ratio I believe
<jrwren> ffmpeg | upscale | prettyfilter | ffmpeg TADA!
<jrwren> zomg, use your brains.
<jrwren> they don't HAVE to.
<brousch> ffmpeg TADA
<jrwren> they wanted to, to get even better quality
<brousch> i'll have to check out that filter
<jrwren> its awesome.
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_in_Star_Trek#Balancing_digital_and_physical_models_in_films_.281994.E2.80.932002.29
<snap-l> early on they were models, but later on they started using more CGI
<jrwren> like when they introed borg?
<snap-l> And I remember eading somewhere that they detail on the early CGI and early enterprise models weren't detailed enough
<snap-l> the bog was a model, iirc
<snap-l> Bah, borg
<jrwren> maybe the first episodes
<jrwren> the later ones were cgi for sure
<snap-l> Well, when they started doing movies, they moved some of the assets to CGI, yes
<snap-l> The early models were quite brittle
<snap-l> http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/CGI
<snap-l> Star Trek was notorious for holding out on CGI
<jrwren> very surprised
<jrwren> i had no idea.
<snap-l> Yeah, and DS9 you can tell twhen they moved to CGI
<snap-l> early on, there's not much in the intro sequence. Then they start adding ships and shit
<jrwren> oh yeah.
<jrwren> i'm remember that.
<jrwren> it was pretty funny that they changed hte intro like that.
<jrwren> nice schooling snap-l
 * snap-l is the nerd that watches the making of specials. :)
<snap-l> always love effects.
<snap-l> and the creativity
<jrwren> nice
<snap-l> spent a few hours reading up on the differet models
<jrwren> so did you ever get into SG1 ?
<snap-l> Unfortunately, no
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> overall as a series and story I put it on par or above DS9.
<tjagoda> I always watch those specials
<snap-l> Anything I've done has been with either ACAD or Blender
<jrwren> DS9 being my favorite overall trek
<snap-l> Oh, sorry.
<snap-l> Star Gate.
<snap-l> Not SGI the company. ;)
<snap-l> Bah
<jrwren> lol
<tjagoda> I like to imagine I'm one of a single digit number of people who watched the entire Lord of the Rings extended special features =(
<snap-l> jrwren: No, I didn't get into SG1. The movie was a little wonky for my tastes
<jrwren> the TV show was a hard left
<snap-l> Yeah, my FIL watched it
<snap-l> Other problem was it was on cable
<jrwren> yup.
<snap-l> Maybe I'll add it to the netflix queue
<jrwren> showtime for the first 4 seasons too
<jrwren> before scifi picked it up and played reruns
<jrwren> that is right... jorge is the SG1 fan.
<jrwren> i knew someone in here was. i just couldn't remember.
<tjagoda> I watched all the SG's
<tjagoda> I even liked Universe
<jrwren> universe was excellent.
<jrwren> so sad that it was cancelled
<jrwren> and the end was kind of rushed
<tjagoda> The end of it wasn't even planned
<jrwren> ever watch portlandia? see what they did with BSG a couple weeks ago? so funny
<tjagoda> I have not
<brousch> we watched SG1 until we went to basic cable
<tjagoda> I miss the good old SG1 with Richard Dean Anderson
<tjagoda> and the earlier days of SG Atlantis
<brousch> that's about when we stopped. up to the ori
<greg-g> guess who can't sleep in, even though his kid is sleeping, because of an annoying head cold. This guy.
<greg-g> also, so true: http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-dad-figures-hes-got-at-least-three-more-month,27256/
<rick_h> greg-g: <3 that. I know I've had those thoughts. "Look, he can't remember this anyway so I can still walk around in my underwear dear"
<jrwren> zomg the Ori story line was a blast... plus... Julian Sands!!!
<snap-l> OK, I think I might need some help
<snap-l> but I think for my phone purchase, I'm seriously considering the iPhone. :)
<snap-l> Gotta love it when you find an album that you can't quickly tell if it's digital artifacting damage, or the actual song: http://glossolaliarecords.bandcamp.com/album/--2
<snap-l> And by love, I mean I want to beat people
<tjagoda> snap-l?  iPhones?
<tjagoda> World really is ending.
<rick_h> snap-l: seriously? You missing Aaron at CHC too much lately?
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Well, I need a phone that works, for starters
<rick_h> bah, the SB stream is silverlight
<snap-l> and from what I've seen, the Android phones all feel like htey're in late beta
<rick_h> snap-l: right, because no one's ever had to return their phone to apple before
<snap-l> never. :)
<rick_h> so just fyi, got the new hardware, fixed my google voice setting, and phone is back to normal for me
<rick_h> so yay
<snap-l> Secod reason is because Apple keeps the carriers on a short tether
<snap-l> rick_h: Ah, cool
<tjagoda> Hey
<snap-l> That's the part that I really hate. It's not the hardware, it's the retarded carriers
<tjagoda> This blackberry torch 9810 works awesome
<tjagoda> Just sayin'
<rick_h> yea, I hear it even takes phone calls
<snap-l> tjagoda: If I need a brick, I'll go to the brick yard
<rick_h> but once you're done talking on the phone you can go get your computer out to do anything else
<snap-l> I had a blackberry once. It was the most miserable experience ever
<tjagoda> My Blackberry can multitask while I'm talking on it
<tjagoda> That's been possible for a while
<snap-l> But can Blackberry remove the suck?
<rick_h> tjagoda: except that none of the apps are there :P and unless you're on the latest your browser doesn't load crap :P
<snap-l> rick_h: Oh, it does load crap
<snap-l> just like Lynx
<tjagoda> I am on the latest
<tjagoda> But I am not app crazy
<tjagoda> Meh
<snap-l> tjagoda: You CAN'T BE APP CRAZY ON A BLACKBERRY!
<snap-l> Fuck me
<snap-l> DO they still have SSH apps running $70?
<tjagoda> I just go to the free open source SSH apps which aren't in App World
<snap-l> Ah, apparently Jamendo unleashed the metal albums
<tjagoda> But I don't know whats in App World for SSH these days
<snap-l> seeing a lot of albums that disappeared from Thanksgiving to The New year.
<tjagoda> When I last looked it was years ago
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-28
<derekv> maybe i'll order that standup desk
<snap-l> derekv: I ordered a ball chair
<snap-l> and a Cherry MX black keyboard.
<derekv> cool
<rick_h_> grrr, hate when the wife drives in this crap
<rick_h_> can't we go back to the old days where I could have just told her to stay home
<derekv> what was that brand of desk we were talking about?
<derekv> was it geekdesk?
<rick_h_> that's what I've got
<rick_h_> http://www.geekdesk.com/default.asp?contentID=634 + solid core door for a top
<rick_h_> https://picasaweb.google.com/116120911388966791792/NewOffice#5672344860829706690
<rick_h_> thuogh a bit different setup now
<derekv> why the door frame
<derekv> just to save money?
<derekv> nice rack ... *snicker*
<greg-g> rick_h_: nothing planned
<rick_h_> derekv: yea, getting it without a top is cheaper and shipping is a chunk cheaper as well. The door was just $50 so saved some
<rick_h_> so we're officially CHC Royal Oak now :/
<widox> rick_h_: heh
<widox> rick_h_: there is a new Detroit one, but they didn't call it CHC...
<widox> but its the same thing
<rick_h_> yea, but I guess they're part of it
<rick_h_> why I got the email
<rick_h_>  There's
<rick_h_> > > one being started in downtown Detroit that's meeting next week:
<rick_h_> > >
<rick_h_> > > http://www.meetup.com/DetCoffeeCode/
<widox> yeah- this Thurs
<rick_h_> bah sorry, should have cleaned up first
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> Yay CHC Royal Oak
<snap-l> I guess it's time to re-locate to Madison Heights again. ;)
<rick_h_> shush
<rick_h_> CHC Where-ever-the-#$%#@-rick-sits :P
<snap-l> CHC Rick's Ass.
<snap-l> I <3 the date command
<snap-l> Check this out... give me a sec.
<snap-l> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1581617/
<rick_h_> ~50 tracks?
<snap-l> Yeah, that's around 3 hours of music
<snap-l> and (secret revealing time) I scripted picking around 60 tracks randomly in Python. (with artist checking)
<snap-l> I still review 'em after it picks 'em, but it's mostly to get a head start on creating a playlist.
<snap-l> Doing it manually is a real PITA
<rick_h_> gotcha
<rick_h_> didn't realize it was 3hrs
<snap-l> Yeah, that's on Metal Injection.fm
<snap-l> Funny enough, the guy who put together their radio station put the code for handling the shows on github
<snap-l> which helped me debug a problem with the ISO Week numbers he was using.
<rick_h_> lmao https://twitter.com/YOLO_YODA/status/295725404264738816/photo/1
<snap-l> OK, outside of using CTRL-W to delete a word back (which I use reflexively) what other keypresses will allow you to delete the previous word?
<snap-l> or better still, what do you guys use to do mass deletes like that? :)
<rick_h_> dd
<rick_h_> 0dfX
<rick_h_> where X is some character I want to delete up until
<rick_h_> then there's di( di" and di'
<snap-l> Hm. I now CTRL-U will delete the line while you're editing.
<jrwren> snap-l: you should do a metal room on turntable.fm :p
<snap-l> jrwren: Have they removed that dippy requirement to have a Facebook account?
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> you can just register with them, no FB or twitter needed
<snap-l> jrwren: Hm, might check them out again
<jrwren> we have a nice industrial room
<jrwren> http://turntable.fm/the_oontz_room_ebmelectroindustrialsynthpop
<widox> rick_h_: haha. thats great
<brousch> greg-g: You there?
<rick_h_> he's hiding
<brousch> No. He's dying
<brousch> Bad soy burger or something
<brousch> I make light of it, but he's not feeling well
<greg-g> brousch: :P I'm out on a short/slow walk in fresh air, stopped at a coffee shop. Still not feeling well, but didn't want to walk all the way back home yet :/
<greg-g> carrie made some awesome seafood dish last night, apparently I ate a bad oyster or something :/
<rick_h_> :(
<rick_h_> greg-g: asked about MI because I"m selling off a batch of my starter hand tools :P
<greg-g> oh no!
<rick_h_> want to see you carry on with a hand plane in the pocket lol
<greg-g> hah
<greg-g> yeah, lets see.......
<snap-l> Man, I wish Canonical stocked these: http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=862
<rick_h_> lol, now he's customizing the keyboard
<rick_h_> down the rabbit hole!
<greg-g> rick_h_: you might like this blog, or maybe not, it is "ecovillage" focused (he lives at one I visited when I was in undergrad), but awesome photos and work: http://www.small-scale.net/yearofmud/2013/01/28/timber-frame-joinery-how-to-cut-a-tenon/#.UQa_nuDU9E4
<rick_h_> greg-g: cool
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah yeah yeah
<brousch> greg-g: Good luck
<snap-l> greg-g: Hope you feel better soon
<brousch> greg-g: Would you mind sending your slides? I think Dave Brondsema is going to pad his talk with some license stuff
<greg-g> brousch: so, uh
<greg-g> that was the plan for this morning, originally (things got in the way last week :/ )
<brousch> Let me guess. Your slides are under a proprietary license!
<rick_h_> under a DNC license :P
<brousch> Ah, OK
<greg-g> I can send you something I did before at a similar (but longer) talk
<brousch> I think we can get by without them
<snap-l> They're under a kickinnutz license
<snap-l> you can share them, but greg-g reserves teh right to kick you in the nuts.
<brousch> Isn't that always the case?
<snap-l> brousch: You read the license agreement, didn't you?
<snap-l> It's part of browsing my site.
<greg-g> http://www.slideshare.net/greg.g/creative-commons-floss-mug
<snap-l> Hah! We got it first!
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> and I did a video of it too.
<snap-l> East side RUUUUUUULES
<greg-g> they're woefully out of date (any numbers are probably wrong) but yeah
<snap-l> GR always gets things later than the east siders. ;)
<snap-l> except great restaurants, decent bandwith, goodwill toward men
<greg-g> and awesome beer
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> having to lock my door at night and sleep with one eye open vs waiting a week for the latest hollywood blockbuster = totally worth it
<greg-g> so really, you win ;)
 * snap-l wonders what it would take to get a giant Amway building over on this side of the state. ;)
<brousch> Well Atomic Object opened up there
<brousch> That's one of our best dev shops
<snap-l> jrwren: OOP is totally dead. :)
<jrwren> ;]
<greg-g> rick_h_: also, related, not sure if I've shared http://freecabinporn.com/ with you before (I love the domain name)
<greg-g> ok, starting to hit my "in public" limit, time to mosy back home to a warm bed
<rick_h_> hah, thanks for the linkage
<greg-g> it is part of my daily mental health rss subscription :)
<brousch> I'm afraid to look
<rick_h_> just for jcastro http://theoatmeal.com/blog/dinosaur_hotel
<rick_h_> jcastro: for the next anniversary :P
<jcastro> hah awesome
<derekv> that feeling when you open a git repo by a group of windows using non developers,
<derekv> Now how to fix this without any risk of screwing someone up
<derekv> Transperently
<derekv> eg mixed line ending encodings
<snap-l> derekv: You don't.
<snap-l> Just take them out back and beat them over the head with a club.
<snap-l> It's easier that way.
<snap-l> I'm only half kidding
<snap-l> You'll probably need something more than a club.
<snap-l> Man, not another Rails exploit
<snap-l> it's going to be like Java soon.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-29
<rick_h_> wheee
<snap-l> Evening
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> morning and all that jazz
<brousch> Sick kid again today
<rick_h_> :(
<snap-l> brousch: Hope he feels better soon.
<snap-l> Sick kid === no fun
 * rick_h_ feels sick...just added MongoDB to vim dict 
<snap-l> rick_h_: all are welcome.
<rick_h_> grrrr...stupid people that can't set up a installable python package correctly...
<snap-l> Are we having fun yet?
<rick_h_> not really
<rick_h_> is it friday yet
<snap-l> Not yet.
<snap-l> Though we're gettig closer.
<jrwren> I am.
<jrwren> I think I know btter than pylint :p
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> just got through linting through a stupid library I had to fork because it's .tar.gz was uninstallable
<rick_h_> what is pylint telling you? The only one I think is the multiple imports around a try/except
<jrwren> pylint rule C0103 is stupid IMO. attr names (should match [a-z_][a-z0-9_]{2,30}$)
<jrwren> feels wrong.
<jrwren> {2,} is more like it
<rick_h_> oh man, what attr name are you using?
<jrwren> _update_trafic_trends_from_values_
<jrwren> and even that I don't like
<rick_h_> ends with _? and from_values I find is normally just wasted verbage :/
<jrwren> I'd rather it be update_traffic_trends_from_MORE_DESCRIPTION_values
<rick_h_> update_traffic_trends(values=None, another_source=None): dispatch from here
<rick_h_> imo :)
<jrwren> yeah, i considered that.
<jrwren> then I also consider someone with a shite editor who doesn't see the doc or even args.
<jrwren> I miss types.
<rick_h_> shush!
<jrwren> trailing _ is throw back from C. I should stop that habbit.
<jrwren> i guess it is not pythonic
<rick_h_> if they miss that then shove it. If they can't see the code or the docs then fubar
<rick_h_> what is it supposed to mean? Can't recall ever seeing that
<rick_h_> the underscaore that is
<jrwren> signifies private, like in python
<rick_h_> that's what the _ is for
<jrwren> but in C, all functions starting with _ are reserved
<rick_h_> to start with
<rick_h_> ah
<jrwren> can't do that in C
<jrwren> most compilers accept it, but it is technically out of spec.
<rick_h_> yea, the _update_traffic_trends already means private. And if it's private why bothering about docs/editors?
<jrwren> that is the OTHER thing.
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> C0111 pylint wants docstring on private
<jrwren> I'm like WTF
<jrwren> the bother is to convey intent to the next maintainer
<rick_h_> sure, why not? You wrote it, you should doc it when you come back to your code.
<rick_h_> right
<jrwren> this is NOT simple code at all, it gets head twisting
<rick_h_> all the more reason for docstrings
<jrwren> oh, so you are syaing yes to docstrings on the private
<rick_h_> yes
<jrwren> cool. I usually do anyway :)
<rick_h_> ok cool
<rick_h_> people don't doc their code enough for my tastes. Drives me nuts
<rick_h_> got handed this to review the other day and drove me nuts that there's not a single comment about expected structure of the data, why it's formatted in the way it is, etc http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~juju-jitsu/charmworld/trunk/view/head:/charmworld/jobs/cstat.py
<rick_h_> wanted to just return 'will-no-review-no-docs'
<jrwren> and THAT is another reason I like static types.
<jrwren> and I don't just mean static langs, but static types.
<jrwren> if you are using all dicts for structure in a static lang, its no different than a dynamic lang for opaque data structure
<jrwren> but when you define your own type heirarchy and use hte type system, its oh so discoverable
<rick_h_> right, well this is a mess because of mongodb everything's a dict pita
<rick_h_> we could implement our own model/type later on top but our TA has shot that down as unnecessary overhead :(
<jrwren> your TA is a fool.
<jrwren> :p
<rick_h_> hah! we can drink to that
<jrwren> you should gift him a copy of Domain Driven Development and expense i.
<rick_h_> many gifts I could grant...some of them with spinny little sharp ends
<rick_h_> but anyway, sorry you and pylint disagree today
<jrwren> its ok, i took your advice.
<jrwren> if i've learned anything in the past year its that i'm terrible at python
<rick_h_> it should have been...there's always someone worse and usually paid more than you :P
<jrwren> oh sure, I can make it do anything I want to, but its rarely pythonic when I do it. I usually think functional and then have to rethink to get it into python
<rick_h_> hmm, not sure why functional should throw it off
<jrwren> i find functional programming in python to be particularly challenging
<jrwren> i think because I'm used to C#,F#,ocaml style of functional
<jrwren> list comprehensions are almost anti-functional IMO
<jrwren> I know it isn't true
<rick_h_> ah ok. I mean you might need to grab some stdlib help but normally functional works ok
<rick_h_> but yea, it's a broad idea I guess
<jrwren> it is a different functional thought process than I'm used to
<jrwren> finding hte writing itertools funciton or deciding it doesn't exist...
<snap-l> Honestly I find my biggest problem in Python is not making classes soon enough
<snap-l> instead you get all of this sorta-related-data floating around inside of a file
<brousch1> rick_h_: Are you using Ming? http://merciless.sourceforge.net/tour.html
<rick_h_> brousch1: no, we're anti well defined schema atm...more overhead
<brousch1> speed freaks
<jrwren> i have opposite problem with classes too soon.
<jrwren> lots of behavior, no data
<rick_h_> every function call is sacred, every function call si great...
<jrwren> should have been module level functions
<jrwren> but i'm used to langs without module level functions where this is norm
<brousch1> The module is a class
<rick_h_> heh, without any instance separation
<rick_h_> on NO! it's a global! everyone run!
<brousch1> One instance should be enough for anyone
<jrwren> the module is a class?
<jrwren> no, its an instance of module
<rick_h_> jrwren: he's being sarcastic. from app import models. models.function()
<jrwren> oh, LOLz
<brousch1> greg-g: You feeling better? We found another lawyer to fill in last night. The talks went very well.
<greg-g> brousch1: yeah, got to feeling better around 4pm my time, after a lot of time out in the sun. Glad it worked out OK!
<brousch1> he had a talk partially prepared for a local conference in a month on a similar topic, so it worked very well
<greg-g> awesome
<brousch1> Plus he got free pizza and drinks at the meeting. Yours was going to be in bad shape after I ship it across the country
<brousch1> :D
<greg-g> haha, sad
<brousch1> http://www.mhacks.org/
<greg-g> yeah, saw that, and I almost puked for the second time this week
<brousch1> hah
<greg-g> seriously, disgusting
<brousch1> Energy drinks!
<brousch1> I don't understand the point or how hacks will be judged
<greg-g> but, HACK! ATHON! ALL NIGHT! THE ZONE! FACEBOOK! BILLIONAIRE!
<greg-g> that's why, because of stupidity
<greg-g> sorry, I'll go back to playing cribbage with the rest of the old folks in this here home
<brousch1> But you're the one in San Francisco. All of this is your fault
 * greg-g hangs head
<greg-g> I'm sorry, guys. I didn't mean it. It just, kind of happened. No one really saw it coming until it was too late.
<snap-l> I hope they have the purell-a-thon, or they'll really have a hack-athon.
<greg-g> har har har
<greg-g> ;)
<brousch1> We just had Startup Weekend in GR. It is similar, though more structured. I'm too old to do anything but sleep for 36 hours
<snap-l> I'm all for shoving developers in a closet somewhere with bandwidth, pizza and beer, but it feels like cheap labor.
<greg-g> it's worse than that
<snap-l> greg-g: elaborate, pls?
<greg-g> it perpetuates this stupid effing (sorry, if you want me to elaborate on that part, you might get more swear words) culture.
<snap-l> We only allow University students to participate; that includes undergradutes and graduates of 2-4 year institutions.
<greg-g> makes it seem all grandiose
 * jrwren rages against python
<snap-l> greg-g: That developing is all about adrenaline-fueled rushes?
<greg-g> and that "developing" == "startup"
<snap-l> greg-g: Ah, but I think it's a good thing, to a point
<greg-g> how so?
<snap-l> Sure, there's a lot of folks who think their dippy little idea is going to make them a boat-ton of money
<snap-l> but if it weren't for people trying to push the ball a little further, we might not have Facebook / Google / all of those sposnoring companies.
<snap-l> And something tells me it's a job fair in disguise.
<snap-l> What I don't like is the idea of companies looking for student workers who are naive, and prone to burn out trying to please their corporate masters.
<greg-g> right, def a job fair type thing, I suppose
<greg-g> yeah, that part is almost inherent in this culture out here, really
<snap-l> It's akin to having a talent competition where you get all of these "Rock stars" together to have a battle of the bands
<greg-g> hence google's free food, massages, laundry, school buses, etc
<snap-l> every one of them think they'll make it
<snap-l> and the industry is littered with the carcasses of those got ground up in the machinery.
<greg-g> warning, personal rant that may offend and/or provoke:
<greg-g> the epitome of capitalism
<greg-g> </rant>
<snap-l> Think about it: how much do you groan inside when someone says they're in a band
<brousch1> jrwren: What'd Python do to you now? Kicked your dog?
<snap-l> Now how much do you groan when soemone says they're in a startup
<brousch1> I don't groan so much as put on a look of pity
<greg-g> a ton more, becauase at least the people in bands really know they arne't going to make it big, and they aren't trying to suck the teet of a VC
<greg-g> at least, every person who I knew who was in a band knew the odds of making it big and lived their life accordingly. Not so with startup exec wannabes
<greg-g> of course, I'm soured of this culture here, I may be biased :)
<snap-l> greg-g: I've known a few bands that thought by moving to LA they'd make it big
<snap-l> It was a band I was in.
<snap-l> And no, we did not move. I left the band after graduation, and it dissolved soon after.
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> I didn't mean to (maybe I did?) make it out to be black and white, but, lets say it is broad generalizations
<greg-g> at least from my perspective
<snap-l> And I'd argue there's more examples of bands not making it than bands making it
<greg-g> (again, being here, inundated with it)
<snap-l> Yeah, totally.
<snap-l> Well, you also have people who want to ensure they never have to work in a corporate world
<greg-g> I may have a diff perspective if I were in LA
<greg-g> (the opposite, in fact, but I'd probably still dislike where I lived ;) )
<snap-l> And instead recreate it in their living room
<jcastro> snap-l: did your stuff get sorted when you increased the inotify watches?
<snap-l> jcastro: I haven't seen it since
<snap-l> I accepted the answer on askubuntu
<jrwren> brousch1: python just isn't what I want. its far from waht I would call good.  in this case sort v. sorted. sort doesn't return a value. FUNCTIONS SHOULD RETURN VALUES FFS!!!
<jcastro> snap-l: did you ask a question or use the one I linked you?
<snap-l> jcastro: I asked a question
<jcastro> link me up yo
<jcastro> I can search for it, but I don't know your username
<snap-l> http://askubuntu.com/questions/247461/cant-access-dropbox-folder-error-under-ubuntu-12-04
<snap-l> (You prevented someone from bolding Dropbox and 12.04)
<snap-l> ^^
<snap-l> jcastro: ^^
<snap-l> jcastro: Up there ^^^
<snap-l> ;)
<jcastro> got it
<rick_h_> jrwren: I'm with you on this one. I always have to look up and work around list.sort() sorted() etc
<jrwren> YAY! i don't suck!
<jrwren> seriously, its good to know that rick_h_ thinks the same things are warts as me.
<rick_h_> "every language has warts. If you don't think so you don't know it well enough"
<rick_h_> or something like that
<snap-l> tx
<snap-l> Yeah, sort and shuffle are always fun ones
<brousch1> s/language/thing/
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> http://r.bmark.us/u/0b17059e03ec04 s3 compitition ftw
<brousch1> I had a beta invite for that and never got around to trying it :(
<snap-l> I wouldn't call it a wart, more of a convention that isn't apparent
<snap-l> It's nice to not have to burn through temp lists to sort or shuffle a list.
<snap-l> but it isn't apparent when you do sorted_list = unsorted.sort()
<rick_h_> yea, I mean evertually you figured out sorted or instance.sort but it's still a wart
<rick_h_> especially when you consider len() :P
<snap-l> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003DQOTAA/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=decafbadnet-20&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B003DQOTAA&adid=1MX8EB40MRQ2PK9X98XE&
<snap-l> rick_h_: yeah
<snap-l> Picked up some of those environmental sound as mp3s for pretty cheap.
<snap-l> Ocean Waves, Thunderstorm by the Sea, and Thundering Rainstorm.
<snap-l> I'd like to know how HP can take a $6,400 laptop and still make it look cheap. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/hands-on-with-6400-of-workstation-class-laptop/
<brousch1> greg-g: Congrats
<greg-g> whoa, you already saw that! I just posted! :)
<greg-g> brousch1: thanks :)
<brousch1> GReader is right on it
<brousch1> Oh wait, it came via email
<rick_h_> greg-g: interesting, look forward to chatting release processes and such
<greg-g> rick_h_: yep, would love to get your thoughts, I'm going to be stealing from, I mean, borrowing the good ideas from Canonical ;)
<snap-l> greg-g: Nuts, now who will I talk CC 4.0 with? :)
<brousch1> When will you covert them to Python?
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Congratulations!
<snap-l> greg-g: Still in the bay area?
<rick_h_> coming back to MI! :P
<greg-g> yep, WMF is in downtown (SOMA area)
<snap-l> greg-g: Nuts and awesome.
<greg-g> 20 min bike ride versus 1 hour bike+caltrain
<snap-l> greg-g: Hm, so near soma.fm? :)
<greg-g> indeed, if they actually have an office that is ;)
<greg-g> I always imagined Somafm being distributed
<snap-l> Yeah, I don't know if they do or not.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-30
<snap-l> OK, so the cat is now spoiled
<snap-l> One state-of-the-piddle litterbox
<snap-l> and a sleepy corner
<jhansonxi> snap-l, the PetSafe self-cleaning model?
<jhansonxi> This is my review of it: http://www.amazon.com/review/R2ZLTN7EISR03L/ref=cm_cr_notf_fhv_prd
<snap-l> no, http://littersystem.com
<jhansonxi> Nifty but I like electronics.  I'm planning on adapting my PetSafe model for use with a 55-gallon drum for a waste container so I only have to empty it once a year.
<snap-l> I wanted to get the Petsafe one, but I didn't have an outlet near the litter box
<snap-l> also it looks pretty big
<snap-l> I remember reading this review. :)
<jhansonxi> It is big.
<jjesse-home> greg-g: congrats on the new job
<jjesse-home> just read the blog post
<jhansonxi> "electronics" is a bit of a stretch.  It's just an LED, a couple of gearmotors, and safety switches.  I might add a micro just so I can load Android on it.  That way I can graph cat output.
<greg-g> jjesse-home: thanks! :)
<greg-g> so, what do people think of the Dell XPS? That's standard issue at WMF apparently
<greg-g> is this a thing now? "Co-Founder / Co-CEO"
<snap-l> jcastro: Good God, you're all over this extinct animals reddit. ;)
<JonEdney> o/ all.  Some weather around here eh?
<JonEdney> Can't remember the last time I opened my window and listened to a thunderstorm roll by in January.
<rick_h_> yea, fun times
<snap-l> Yeah, it's quite wacky
<snap-l> later today we're suppsed to see snow
<rick_h_> Blazeix: snap-l widox jcastro and such early edition CHC 7pm tonight
<rick_h_> derekv: ^
<snap-l> rick_h_: I'll bring my keyboard. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> rick_h_: Also will bring Bob.
<rick_h_> Bob?
<snap-l> Isn't that what you call your Leopold Cherry Blue?
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<snap-l> He's hurt you already forgot.
<widox> oh, dang. thanks for the early reminder rick_h_
<widox> now, if only it was Friday...
<snap-l> and if only there were parachuting beer kegs
<rick_h_> friday can't come fast enough for sure
<shakes808> Good morning all
<snap-l> Hey shakes808, whassup?
<snap-l> Early CHC Royal Oak Edition tonight
<greg-g> g'morn
<greg-g> today feels like a new day :)
<rick_h_> wheee
<snap-l> It should. The calendar says it is
<brousch> greg-g: Free from the stress of CC?
<greg-g> brousch: yeppers :)
<brousch> And you can eat again!
 * snap-l waits for the "A plea from Greg Grossmeier" ad on Wikipedia
<greg-g> snap-l: I was interviewed for that, and my photo was taken (a few times) but I didn't make the cut (this was Oct '11)
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> Too beardy?
<rick_h_> they thought he was just trying to raise new bike funds
<rick_h_> ok, what kind of technical architect says the answer to deploying to production LTS is "just download the binary since the package is too old"
<rick_h_> ?!
<brousch> The kind that enjoys inviting the wrath of rick_h_?
<rick_h_> I mean $#@$ not even raring has the version of the package we need and rather than shove the feature the answer is to download a pre-compiled binary of the latest
<brousch> Maybe he's trolling!
<snap-l> rick_h_: What the fuck?
<snap-l> No, that's just stupipd
<snap-l> That's asking for trouble, tecnhical debt, and goes against everything I ever learned about sysadmin
<rick_h_> yea, just ranting
<snap-l> Re-roll the package
<snap-l> but DON'T just download a fucking binary
<shakes808> snap-l: Not much. Just dealing with legal. :-\
<shakes808> GO NY!!! lol
<rick_h_> NY?
<shakes808> I am working on the NY roll out. We are starting to do lending in NY here at Shore Mortgage / United Shore Fianacial ...blah blah blah. I am sick of this lol.
<shakes808> They wanted it done in Nov and here we are going into Feb and not near completion
<shakes808> lol
<rick_h_> NY = new york?
<shakes808> correct
<rick_h_> gotcha
<snap-l> I thought it was a sportball reference
<shakes808> ? Sportball?
<rick_h_> <3 sportball
<shakes808> ?Football?
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> Any sport
<shakes808> haha
<rick_h_> sportball == catch all for non-sports geeks
<shakes808> gotcha
<shakes808> So rick_h, SF or B?
<snap-l> Go Lions
<shakes808> HA HA
<rick_h_> shakes808: I can haz nuke in the middle of the stadium
<rick_h_> ?
<rick_h_> L on your head if you're a lions fan :P
<snap-l> The lions are due
<greg-g> rick_h_: man, btw, I really wish you had bookie.net/com/org/whatever, just saying ;)
<snap-l> Yeah, yry doing a google search for bookie sometime
 * rick_h_ sighs
<rick_h_> I can get bookie.bz, only one I can see
<greg-g> yuck
<snap-l> You should register notafuckinggamblingsite.com
<shakes808> I tried to log into bookie last night, but couldn't :( WTF lol
<snap-l> and then have it redirect to bookie. ;)
<rick_h_> shakes808: did you go through forgot login?
<greg-g> book.ie would have been perfect ;)
<shakes808> lol na, just said meh lol
<shakes808> using User Logic
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> Swear and yell at my computer for being stooped
<rick_h_> greg-g: hmm, gandi says "reserved for corporate services" wtf that means
<rick_h_> where is .ie?
<rick_h_> bookie.am
<greg-g> ireland
<rick_h_> bookie.cx
<rick_h_> oh hmm, bookie.fm?
<rick_h_> bookie.gg
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> haha
<rick_h_> oh, I like bookie.io
<greg-g> should be my personal tld ;)
<jrwren> http://bit.ly/WQrVPE  <-- i just sent that to someone when they replied "waht is that" after I said "there is coffee house coders tongiht"
<jrwren> am i bad?
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> bah, hate this rename. Oh well. my own fault I guess
<rick_h_> love that detroit is right there at the top
<rick_h_> gah
<greg-g> jrwren: lmgtfy is great, every now and then ;)
<rick_h_> greg-g: well bought bookie.io, though my ssl cert and all that isn't setup for it
<rick_h_> greg-g: so might be a bit before I look to change over I guess.
<widox> rick_h_: they haven't updated the chc website for ours though
<rick_h_> widox: yea, I think they still want us to add it
<rick_h_> I looked and they want to setup a subdomain and have us add in the template into the node app
<rick_h_> which is in that funky format I hate
<rick_h_> I should look at breaking down and doing that else setup our own static site
<widox> oh, are they finally moving to the node app instead of GAP?
<rick_h_> they said they would redirect the subdomain if we wanted. Tempted to put up a s3 simple site
<rick_h_> widox: yea, it's a diff domain I think
<widox> why are they making it so complicated?
<widox> gah
<snap-l> Should just make our own site, frankly
<snap-l> and ask for a cname
<rick_h_> because, they're AA peeps
<rick_h_> snap-l: ok, we'll make it a topic for tonight's meeting
<rick_h_> :P
<widox> I was actually thinking we should whip up something less janky for it. that nested frame GAP thing is junk
<rick_h_> I like the idea of consistant theming
<rick_h_> yea, true :(
<snap-l> rick_h_: I'm OK with that. ;)
<rick_h_> 'we really don't suck this bad...promise'
<rick_h_> damn people need to come do some of my work since they've got too much time on their hands https://twitter.com/waxpancake/status/296492713061265408
<greg-g> rick_h_: wow, you're quick, and take my complaints too seriously :) But that'll be good, yeah
<rick_h_> greg-g: well I liked it
<rick_h_> and I have wanted a better domain, but hover doesn't list it
<greg-g> good :)
<rick_h_> so gandi has more extensions since they're more internationally tied in
 * greg-g nods
 * greg-g loves ghandi
<greg-g> -h
<rick_h_> felt like I was signing my life away
<rick_h_> three diff checkboxes of terms to agree to
<snap-l> Yeah, they tend to make you more aware of what you're agreeing to than most
<snap-l> At least it isn't Godaddy, though
<snap-l> "Would you like the anti-not-privacy enabled for an additional $5 per domain, or the not-anti-value-privacy disabled for $10 per domain"
<snap-l> "Would you like us to SEO you CEO for an additonal $79 per domain"
<snap-l> "Would you like not to disable the not-exactly-a-shopping cart for $99 per domain"
<jrwren> not to mention that the godaddy TOS says that they own the domain that you just paid for and they are letting you use it.
<jrwren> they can take it from you at any time for any reason.
<greg-g> do all registrars? or do you know if others don't
<jrwren> that is a godaddy specific thing
<jrwren> well, others might, but mine does not, nor does many others
<greg-g> good to know
<greg-g> I could conceiveable see that being a standard thing
<jrwren> dnsimple <3
<rick_h_> bah, can't tell if they have .io and such domains
<snap-l> Who, gandi?
<rick_h_> https://dnsimple.com/tld-pricing
<rick_h_> found it, just took a bit
<rick_h_> you can't just start searching without an account like others
<snap-l> rick_h_: Webapp requiring NFS? What the fuck?
<rick_h_> heh, ask me at CHC
<rick_h_> what a day
<rick_h_> I'm about to run out to the garage to beat out some tension :)
<snap-l> The thought of anything requiring NFS and not being filesystem agnostic is perplexing
<rick_h_> add HA onto that as well :P
<snap-l> high availability and NFS are mutually erxclusive
<snap-l> Seriously, buy a SAN if you need HA
<jrwren> SANs suck.
<jrwren> never buy a san :p
<jrwren> indeed the thought of anything requiring NFS and not being fs agnostic is perplexing
<jcastro> CEPH BABY
<jrwren> CEPH is sweet.
<jrwren> but I'd prefer the s3 API to CEPH so I could target other file stores too.
<jrwren> ceph radosgw s3gw plz. k ty.
<jcastro> sure, but you wouldn't use ceph by itself, you'd have openstack provide that api for you
<jcastro> (or whatever)
<jrwren> ceph radosgw is alternative to teh default provided openstack s3 compat storage
<jrwren> so you'd choose whichever works best for you.
<jcastro> nod
<jcastro> man, I don't know how I lived without eneloops rick_h_
<jrwren> eneloops?
<rick_h_> jcastro: woot
<rick_h_> jrwren: http://www.amazon.com/Sanyo-Eneloop-Charger-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B003VLAEPQ/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1359581488&sr=8-5&keywords=eneloop
<jrwren> oh yes, eneloop, I use those too
<jrwren> great bats
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-31
<rick_h_> autocutsel -s PRIMARY &
<rick_h_> autocutsel -s CLIPBOARD &
<rick_h_> Blazeix: ^
<Blazeix> rick_h_: thanks
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch1> The snow is back
<brousch1> And the cold
<rick_h_> and furnace didn't start this morning...brrrr
<brousch1> yikes
<snap-l> Ugh. Got someone coming out to look at it rick_h_ ?
<rick_h_> snap-l: well, reboot seems to have fixed it
<rick_h_> so we'll see through the day I guess
<snap-l> Reboot? You running Linux on your furnace now?
<brousch1> Isn't everyone?
<snap-l> I have an old-school furnace
<snap-l> it has a little monkey shoveling coal into it
<rick_h_> heh, it's got a single little power switch
<rick_h_> flipping that and the burners seem to have come on
<brousch1> Ah, so you're running DOS on yours?
<snap-l> runfurn.bat
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> heat_70.bat
<snap-l> furn.exe /t 70 /u f /f 1
<rick_h_> while [ `/usr/bin/tmp` < 69 ] do /bin/run/heat done
<snap-l> That's not going to work. You're using unix degrees
<snap-l> You need to convert that temp stamp into farenheit
<rick_h_> http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2013/01/exploring-grand-canyon-on-google-maps.html wow
<rick_h_> man I'm not getting any work done today
<rick_h_> need to find keyboard shortcuts for going through street view
<snap-l> ?
<rick_h_> ah, you logged out/in
<rick_h_> http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2013/01/exploring-grand-canyon-on-google-maps.html wow
<snap-l> yeah, restarted my machine because shit was hanging
<snap-l> compiz was at 100%
<snap-l> and pulseaudio gave up a few days ago, but was still playing audio
<snap-l> OK< this is neat.
<jjesse> beautiful day to be working from a home office
<snap-l> yeah, I was half-tempted.
<jjesse> anyone tried to run Ubuntu on a Nexus7?
<jjesse> the on screen keyboard is way to small for me
<jjesse> kept hitting the wrong keys
<rick_h_> http://www.slashgear.com/is-googles-new-chrome-android-a-tease-for-android-apps-in-the-browser-31267578/ ok that's interesting
<jrwren> i don't know why reboot the furnace is funny. mine is computer controlled. Yours probably is too.
<brousch1> rick_h_: That is interesting
<brousch1> Makes my pants feel kind of tight
<_stink_> like you had a big meal?
<brousch1> Right right
<devinheitmueller> Hey, quick question:  in Ubuntu 10.X, whenever you resized a Gnome window it would show the width of the window during resize.  Seems like they got rid of that in newer versions.  Anybody know how to turn it back on (assuming it's configurable)?
<devinheitmueller> Pardon, I mean specifically a Gnome *terminal* window.
<jrwren> ubuntu 10.x? i'm afraid it may be that none of us run a 3 yr old ubuntu
<rick_h_> pre-unity?
<jrwren> oh, you mean make current ubuntu do something 10.x did.
<jrwren> I'd ask on askbuntu.com
<devinheitmueller> Fair enough.
<devinheitmueller> Yeah, this is pre-unity.
<jcastro> that's a compiz feature
<jcastro> (tag the question with compiz)
<devinheitmueller> jcastro: thanks.
<snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920026280.do
<brousch1> Ouch http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/31/detroit-fatal-multi-vehicle-crash/1880247/
<Blazeix> man, cory set up the royal oak CHC dns entry without me even having to ask: http://royaloak.coffeehousecoders.com/
<Blazeix> running off our github pages
<Blazeix> i'll be making tweaks later tonight to make it look a bit sharper; i'm open to suggestions
<Blazeix> aw, it's a bit messed up in IE. of course.
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> cup fail for my browser :(
<Blazeix> really? chrome?
<rick_h_> well it works but not the same cup
<Blazeix> oh, yeah, i went svg
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<Blazeix> the coffee cup _kind_ of looks like an open laptop
<Blazeix> with a weird growth
<rick_h_> lol
<Blazeix> but i think it's probably a bad idea to try to play up that concept
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> simple is best
<widox> Blazeix: sweet
<widox> the cup is in the middle of the page on the right side, is that right?
<Blazeix> ...no.
<rick_h_> Blazeix: I'd pull out the 'Other Groups' into a main body thing vs in Where
<Blazeix> widox: should look like http://files.fuqua.io/upload/chc.png
<Blazeix> rick_h_: yeah, i was debating just putting it down as like a footer
<Blazeix> without a white background, but with dark text
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, it's a bit too hidden atm I think
<rick_h_> I figured just after contact can be Other Groups: with the current theme/layout
<Blazeix> maybe, want to keep it simple though
<rick_h_> yea, understand
<Blazeix> i'll play around with that tonight
<rick_h_> maybe reword the "What" to talk up part of other groups and link in there?
<widox> Blazeix: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kslko7td52fl03p/chc_silly_mug.png
<rick_h_> widox: what browser/version/
<rick_h_> ?
<Blazeix> lol filename
<widox> :)
<Blazeix> coffee cup what are you doing there get back in the header
<widox> chromium 18.0.1025.168
<rick_h_> there's no audio sprite...this must be fail
<rick_h_> 18?!
<Blazeix> widox: yikes, i'm on chrome 24ish
<rick_h_> I'm on 26.0
<widox> yeah- I think I need to update...
<widox> silly work machine
<rick_h_> good to know i guess, but seems like it should have auto updated?
<widox> thought so, need to doubel check
<widox> Blazeix: can you just steal the standard CHC image? http://www.meetup.com/CoffeeHouseCoders/photos/1726151/183839262/#183839262
<rick_h_> fugly
<widox> though, I liked the old cup one better... http://www.meetup.com/CoffeeHouseCoders/photos/1726151/183839262/#29091921
<rick_h_> yea, less fugly...
<widox> true. but, what about keeping a common theme?
<rick_h_> an unfugly one? :)
<Blazeix> yeah, the coffee cup was definitely constrained by what was freely available / licensed
<Blazeix> so if someone can find a good one, i'm all for it
<widox> http://coffeehousecode.appspot.com/static/images/logo.gif
<widox> gotcha, just a thought
<Blazeix> anybody know/have the original art for that?
<Blazeix> kind of weird cup, but i suppose unique is a good thing...
<widox> brass knuckles, yo
<widox> no idea who originally created it though
<rick_h_> detroit coffee!
<rick_h_> bam!
<Blazeix> thoughts on this? http://openclipart.org/detail/10764/coffee-cup-by-sl4yerpl-10764
<rick_h_> it looks like it's sicking up off the side :/
<brousch1> I thought Detroit Coffee was a cup of "water" from Lake St Clare
<Blazeix> ooh: http://openclipart.org/detail/27828/realistic-coffee-cup---front-3d-view-by-mokush
<Blazeix> think i'll use that one. nice and modern
<Blazeix> basically just skulking: http://openclipart.org/search/?query=coffee
<Blazeix> lmk if there's one you guys like
<rick_h_> http://openclipart.org/detail/16977/coffee-by-jean_victor_balin ?
<Blazeix> hey, that svg is actually intelligently created
<Blazeix> like in how they laid out the svg paths
<Blazeix> what if i added the steam lines to the current cup?
<Blazeix> the saucer on the one you linked is kind of lacking
<rick_h_> I'm cool with the current cup, but I agree we need to tie into the rest of the CHC better
<rick_h_> so maybe we can just better tie in, color scheme to match with the green vs blue?
<widox> those guys need to get off the bootstrap wagon
<Blazeix> i think a2 is moving away from the brass knuckle cup
<widox> which is lame
<brousch1> Everyone loves bootstrap
<Blazeix> i think they want to use the one on the main page of http://www.meetup.com/CoffeeHouseCoders/
<Blazeix> which i think is terribly ugly
<widox> agreed
<rick_h_> yea, let's just kill that one
<rick_h_> I'll pay a designer before I put that onto a page
<Blazeix> what if i went from blue accents to green on the page?
<rick_h_> yea, wondering if we do that and get some linkage up and tie in more without the logo itself it would be cool?
<Blazeix> at least then the colors would be similar
<brousch1> You should make a cup out of the big fist thing
<Blazeix> but we're royal oak. maybe we could tie in weed and hippies
<rick_h_> woot!
<Blazeix> s/pies/sters/
<rick_h_> but we're not AA...so not that hipster
<brousch1> I have no idea what RO is known for
<rick_h_> what's a toned down hipster?
<Blazeix> yuppie?
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> now I want to hire a designer saying we're shooting for 'yuppie'
<widox> green version http://openclipart.org/people/TikiGiki/tikigiki_misc-coffee-cup-010.svg
<Blazeix> the cool things about svg is it's just a css change away to change the color :)
<Blazeix> like right now in the css i'm just saying fill:#3b3b3b to make it the darkish color
<widox> well up the anty, multiple cups! http://openclipart.org/detail/8378/coffee-mugs-by-johnny_automatic-8378
<Blazeix> cold war between CHCs, accumulating logo cups
<snap-l> If anyone is looking for Christmas gifts for me, this would be an excellent start: http://www.houzz.com/ideabooks/5078098/list/A-Car-Lover-s-Man-Cave-Kicks-Into-High-Luxury-Gear
<brousch1> D00d, it's not even February yet
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> What is Royal Oak known for?
<snap-l> Downtown ROyal Oak is the gathering of the Douches
<snap-l> Especially on Thursday Nights
<snap-l> There's Bike night, and then there's DOuche night.
<jrwren> restaurant city!
<rick_h_> snap-l: want!
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, no kidding
<rick_h_> so much wood!
<snap-l> And that's before we talk lumber.
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> they are real desperate to get me back on contract
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> noooo, you can't escape
<jcastro> $79 for both of us, unlimited everything
<brousch1> What's that?
<jcastro> tmo
<brousch1> ah
<jcastro> snap-l: it's not ting but I switched to simple and that's $600 a year in savings
<rick_h_> wow, amazon.com down
<snap-l> http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/amazon.com.html
<snap-l> jcastro: That's awesome. I paid $8 last month for my bill because of referrals. ;)
<brousch1> ohshit. I'm heading for the bunker.
<rick_h_> bunker?
<rick_h_> does it have pie?
<brousch1> Spam and water
<_stink_> you can make pie from that
<snap-l> You can make me throw up from that too
<snap-l> http://tomato.es/ <- Interesting if anyone is using Pomodoro
<jjesse> i'm on amazon.com right now
<snap-l> I can't get to the front page
<snap-l> everything else seems to work, though.
<jjesse> ah its the front page
<rick_h_> yea, I mean I figure it'll get updated and start working
<jjesse> you are right everything else does work
<rick_h_> but still was floored to see it down. Kind of like not getting google
<brousch1> jjesse: Enjoying this blizzard?
<jjesse> brousch1, yeah its pretty cool
<jjesse> had to go rescue my dad cause his car died on the highway
<brousch1> nice
<jjesse> good thing he was safe and on the shoulder
<brousch1> I'm home sick with the kid again today. We're watching the snow pile up
<jjesse> just needed to pick him up
<jjesse> yeah i'm working from home today
<jjesse> wife was supposed to do a girls night thing on the northwest side of town, i don't think she is going
<jhansonxi> Us folks up near Alpena don't get snow like you southerners.  Just cold and windy.
<Blazeix> any idea who this is? http://www.meetup.com/Coffee-House-Coders/-48374/
<Blazeix> founded January 31, 2013
<rick_h_> hmm, no udea
<rick_h_> idea
<brousch1> It is snap-l starting a splinter-cell
<snap-l> brousch1: I wouldn't do one in Novi
<brousch1> Exactly. It's misdirection
<brousch1> You're devious
<snap-l> I'm mor eclever than I realize, then. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-01
<Blazeix> rick_h_: snap-l widox any thoughts on http://files.fuqua.io/upload/royaloak.coffeehousecoders.com/
<Blazeix> or anybody else who wants to give feedback :)
<brousch1> Needs more rounded corners and bootstrap
<brousch1> I like the cup
<Blazeix> probably one of those 'share this on one of 27 different social networks' buttons, too
<Blazeix> and an amazon affiliate link
<Blazeix> argh, why do browsers not support svg favicons
<Blazeix> hm, i guess svg can include js, i suppose that's why.
<jhansonxi> brousch1: I thought Apple patented rounded corners.
<widox> Blazeix: ooh, green :)
<widox> and, the coffee cup is correctly in the top right corner
<widox> heh, they added a dropdown thing on the node app for the different editions: selecting ours is funny http://annarbor.coffeehousecoders.com/
<Blazeix> widox: yeah, pretty funny. maybe i can add a pretend twitter bootstrap header to increase consistency :D
<Blazeix> which one do people like better? http://files.fuqua.io/upload/chc/
<Blazeix> (coffeecup logo)
<Blazeix> the whole coffee-cup-that-looks-like-a-laptop concept is growing on me
<widox> I'm leaning more towards the left one
<widox> what about making the border thinner on the right one?
<Blazeix> ok, i think i'll go with the one on the left, thanks
<Blazeix> if you refresh i added one with a thinner border, but i don't think it turned out well
<widox> I dunno, not that bad. maybe the handle is a bit thick now though
<snap-l> blasI'm a little partial to the blue colorscheme
<snap-l> but it's quite nice.
<snap-l> Blazeix: ^^
<Blazeix> widox: made the handle a bit thinner
<Blazeix> snap-l: yeah, i'm a fan of blue too, but we need to CHC-ize it a bit
<Blazeix> luckily there are only two rgb values that need to be changed, so we can easily tweak to our heart's content
<Blazeix> hm, maybe the handle is _too_ thin now...
<Blazeix> i might just say screw it, graphics are hard, i'm using the one on the left :)
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> I don't think the SVG is that bad
<snap-l> It works. Gives it a 1950s diner geel
<snap-l> feel, even
<widox> Blazeix: whatever floats your boat, I like the right-most one though
<Blazeix> ooh, drama
<Blazeix> :P
<widox> ;)
<Blazeix> widox: ended up going with the right-most one, btw
<rick_h_> thanks Blazeix !
<rick_h_> http://xkcd.com/1168/ so so good
<rick_h_> scary thought of the day http://venturebeat.com/2013/01/30/rubygems-org-hacked-interrupting-heroku-services-and-putting-millions-of-sites-using-rails-at-risk/
<rick_h_> and TGIF
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, and deploying from github is an AWESOME idea
<snap-l> let's do more of that.
<rick_h_> yea, I need to update bookie to use a dl cache :)
<snap-l> It's python. It's not succeptible to stupidity. ;)
 * snap-l (knows he will eat those words someday)
<rick_h_> I would rather have the wiki attacked vs pypi
<brousch> eh?
<rick_h_> 13:29  rick_h_- scary thought of the day
<rick_h_> http://venturebeat.com/2013/01/30/rubygems-org-hacked-interrupting-heroku-services-and-putting-millions-of-sites-using-rails-at-risk/
<jjesse> brousch, your son feeling better today?
<brousch> No. We're all miserable
<brousch> rick_h_: Oh man. That sucks
<jjesse> that sucks sorry
<snap-l> brousch: Ugh, sorry to hear that.
<brousch> Sinus infections for everyone!
<brousch> I took the real pseudoephedrine this morning to get through some work. It's giving me the sweats and heart palpitations
<rick_h_> yea, that stuff messes with me too.
<brousch> There's one more powerful weapon, Afrin. It clears me completely for 2 hours and 15 minutes, and tehn it is like the Goblin King is sitting on my face
<snap-l> And that's an image I didn't need to have this morning
<brousch> You're welcome
<snap-l> USN-1696-1 fixed vulnerabilities in the Linux kernel. Due to an unrelated
<snap-l> regression inotify/fanotify stopped working after upgrading. This update
<snap-l> fixes the problem.
<snap-l> That might explain the dropbox issue
<rick_h_> coolio
<snap-l> Well, I fucked up
<rick_h_> oops
<snap-l> Apparently the Ting ETF thing was by reservation
<rick_h_> did you volunteer for something?
<greg-g> ETF?
<snap-l> and the reservations were gone in 8 miunutes
<snap-l> Early Terminiation Fee
<snap-l> ie: I could have registered the phone two weeks ago for the same results.
<snap-l> And I should have read more carefully.
<greg-g> oh sad
<greg-g> sorry man
<snap-l> Yeah, no worries
<snap-l> Not surprised it was gone in 8 minutes
<snap-l> just wish I could have saved the cost.
<greg-g> $10,000 isn't a ton, I suppose
<snap-l> Oh well.
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> what's your ETF then?
<brousch> snap-l: I was skeptical of that offer. It would've cost them a fortune
<greg-g> well, they limited it to a set amount, but yeah, addes up quickly when it's ~$200/pop
<snap-l> Well, it would have been a little nicer had they said it was essentially first-come-first-served and required you to be online at midnight
<snap-l> I wouldn't have waited.
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> I'm in the same boat as before, but I would have had the phone activated sooner, not later.
<snap-l> That's the part that stings
<snap-l> I've had two extra weeks of Verizon
<brousch> And an awesome hone collecting dust
<brousch> phone too
<brousch> Write them a strongly-worded letter
<rick_h_> well hook it up and use it on wifi
<rick_h_> access point up your other phone :P
<snap-l> I'm done worrying about it
<greg-g> good
<jcastro> buenas mornings
<rick_h_> TGIF!
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> got your back jrwren :) we keep a download-cache bzr repo that's just the .tar.gz of python deps
<rick_h_> deploy is bzr branch download-cache and install from there
<rick_h_> makes for nice static versioning and preventing pypi network issues nicely. Just need to get time to change my apps to do that myself
<jrwren> ok, i kinda see what you mean.
<jrwren> I need to some up with something like that.
<rick_h_> so if you look in that makefile right before that line I linked you to it makes sure download-cache is up to date and if not does a bzr pull
<jrwren> is it as simple as create a venv, version it in git, move that venv around with git clone/push and make more venvs by pointing pip to that original venv?
<rick_h_> no no no
<rick_h_> don't try to remove the venv, always rebuild it
<jrwren> so, mirror the pypi source that I need.
<rick_h_> create venv, bzr branch download-cache, run pip install -r requirements pointed at download-cache
<rick_h_> right, download-cache is a mirror of the packages and versions we need
<jrwren> right, so download-cache is your pypi (and ohter) mirror
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> pip supports installing from a local fs directory
<rick_h_> we just point pip at that directory with a bunch of flags to say "don't you dare ask the internet for anything"
<jrwren> need this.
<rick_h_> but it means any new dep has to be first added to the download cache, checked in, and pushed up
<jrwren> great for dep mgmt
<rick_h_> rgr
<jrwren> don't get a new version of pkg unless you really need it.
<rick_h_> our production required no internet access deploys
<jrwren> although I guess requirements.txt does that too
<rick_h_> right, requirements.txt helps since everything must be version pinned
<rick_h_> well, must be according to our standard practice
<rick_h_> but yea, we can hand production our app and our download-cache as tarballs for deploy
<rick_h_> I've got node packages in the download cache as well
<rick_h_> see the npm lines below the one I linked you to
<jrwren> *nod*
<jrwren> we dont' do any node production
<rick_h_> yea, this is just to build the css/less files on build
<jrwren> ah. good call
<rick_h_> but better than checking in both the dev/build files
<jrwren> *nod*
<rick_h_> but Makefile magic ftw :)
<jrwren> its not really magic.
<jrwren> what I would like is something to manage the download cache for me.
<jrwren> I could probably hack pip to do it
<rick_h_> ugh, starting to feel bad for the rails kids https://twitter.com/niallohiggins/status/297397819206160385
<widox> rick_h_: because that's a non-rails app??
<rick_h_> widox: just that 'it's not rails' is turning into a big selling point
<rick_h_> especially because the travisci folks are good folks
<rick_h_> always done free OSS builds and been building up in a good way
<widox> gotcha
<widox> yeah, that project is definitely a good thing
<rick_h_> Good news! Your Pebble is almost ready to ship. Please double
<rick_h_> check your shipping address in the Pebble Account system.
<rick_h_> woot!
<jcastro> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/17ogyo/xkcd_tar/c87hsre
<jcastro> it's comments like this
<jcastro> this is why I love reddit
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> love the follow up with all the other examples
<snap-l> I don't find the tar mnemonics that hard to remember.
<greg-g> rick_h_: odd question that I might be made fun of for: you ever looked into dash covers for your subaru?
<greg-g> the dash right above my glove compartment is starting to crack from the sun
<rick_h_> no, never have
<rick_h_> :(
<snap-l> greg-g: That's a common problem in climates where sunlight happens
<snap-l> Happens to all cars
<snap-l> sunlight dries out the plastic, and causes it to crack
<brousch> Going to get a car bra too?
<rick_h_> yea, have to keep the armor all on it
<snap-l> brousch: Gotta hold up those headlights.
<snap-l> (hi-beams)
<brousch> hawt
<jrwren> i don't have the tar issue either.
<greg-g> brousch: :P no, but my dad got me one of those headlight polishers since he noticed they were a bit foggy/oxidized
<greg-g> wouldn't mind a bug deflector, I like how that looked on my Ranger (and was fun to install, drilling into my hood)
<jcastro> greg-g: you don't have a windshield cardboard thing out there? Man that's like rule #1 in california for me
<greg-g> yeah, should :/
<dzho> I like the ones with fabric in the middle and memory wire of some kind on the periphery
<dzho> my wife can't usually be bothered to try to make them fold up though :(
<greg-g> ordered one
<rick_h_> man I love tests
<rick_h_> "wtf am I doing? Well I want this code to work..." put it in a test and watch it blow up, then make that code work
<jcastro> snap-l: PAGING CRAIG
<rick_h_> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-02
<brousch> http://www.dvice.com/2013-2-1/how-make-your-own-bagpipes-under-10
<greg-g> rick_h_: I'm getting those spoon knives!
<rick_h_> greg-g: awesome! so far our favorite ones are made from olive wood
<snap-l> jcastro: What's up?
<jcastro> snap-l: I am in RO for an hour or two tonight
<brousch1> Gorram foot of snow
<snap-l> jcastro: Oh yeah? Where at, and when?
<rick_h_droid> Kind of cool. setup newrelic on r.bmark.us
<rick_h_droid> need to see if I can get it setup on bookie maybe
<snap-l> What's newrelic?
<jcastro> snap-l: nm, too snowy
<jcastro> it's like crazy down here
<snap-l> Wuss.
<snap-l> jcastro: ^
<greg-g> rick_h_: good to know :)
<greg-g> where do people look online for cabin/house type rentals other than airbnb?
<widox> greg-g: I've also heard about http://www.vrbo.com/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-03
<rick_h_> snap-l: monitoring stuff
<tony-smlr> SMLR is Live Video:  http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=VfJSrvOI6qU
<snap-l> Afternoon, everyone.
<greg-g> hiya
<jrwren> hi
<Caboose1911> Hello everyone! what's going on?
<rick_h_> party
<Caboose1911> ah, superbowl?
<rick_h_> nope, jcastro has me looking at quadcopters on amz
<rick_h_> while waiting for an ebay auction to conclude...see party!
<rick_h_> :P
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-27
<rick_h_> and this is what you get for marrying a tool and outgrowing it http://sudomakethought.com/04-the-future-of-npm
<jrwren_> i don't get it.
<rick_h_> the couchdb replication scaling issues
<jrwren_> ah.
<rick_h_> and their issues in trying to cdn, lack of help by using the cdn, killing off some ability to replicate, etc
<rick_h_> jrwren_: re the kitchen sexist tweet: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/11761747585/sizes/l/ yes ma'am
<rick_h_> :P
<jrwren_> chopped wood?
<jrwren_> cut wood is not chopped wood. But now I don't know waht the tweet said.
<rick_h_> jrwren_: yea, you're right. it said chop some lumber. I got the lumber part
<rick_h_> wood tends to be a little different in that case
<rick_h_> so the tweet is a bit confused, but close enough
<rick_h_> anyone ever look at/run OpenMediaVault ?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: So essentially what I'm seeing is "don't use Couch for anything big"
<cmaloney> It was the undoing of Ubuntu One
<cmaloney> It seems to be the undoing of npm
<rick_h_>  cmaloney well, don't get married to any tech is more the wide thing I think. And never bet against http :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
<cmaloney> And stop wishing for bigger pipes for data. :)
<cmaloney> "Well, we would be fine if we could shove through 1TB / sec. ;) "
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren_> cold morning
<jrwren_> be safe ya'll
<rick_h_> yea, hiding in my basement with he space heater
<rick_h_> but did go shovel a path for hte wife to her car and clear the snow off
<rick_h_> it's light stuff, but got another 4-5" of it
<rick_h_> broke down and ordered a snow blower
<jrwren_> i'm dropping the kid at school and making my way to work.
<rick_h_> no it'll probably stop for the year
<jrwren_> whoa, 4"? I think I'll go get shoveling
<rick_h_> no/now
<rick_h_> well I went out yesterday and got a couple and I had probably another 3 in the drive. What I'm not sure about any more is how much 'fell' and how much blew? still, needs to move
<brousch> How's the electric snow shovel working?
<rick_h_> who's got an electric shovel?
<brousch> Didn't you buy an electric snow thing?
<rick_h_> no, yesterday ordered a snapper blower
<rick_h_> gas, 4cyl, etc. Just have to wait for it to arrive
<rick_h_> went to 4 stored and called a few more before giving up finding anything
<brousch> insane this year
<rick_h_> yea, I'm gone all next week and figured it's time to give in. Not going to ask my wife to do everythign else and plow through all the snow that might drop
<brousch> How bad was Saturday over there?
<rick_h_> it's not been bad, just keeps going. Had a little bit sat, little bit sunday, little bit last night
<brousch> We got a crapload Fri night and another 6-7" since then
<rick_h_> ah yea, it's been in 1-3" drops for us
<rick_h_>  6 hour total at the NWS office in White Lake
<rick_h_> so about 6" for the weekend it looks like according to wunderground spotters
<brousch> We went to Chicago on Fri night, so when I got back last night it was more than 1ft to shovel
<brousch> Then 3-4" more last night
<rick_h_> ouch, I was >--< close to just going all the way and getting a small two stage blower
<brousch> I want a ride-on snowblower now
<rick_h_> but the darn things are 4' long and I don't have that kind of garage space
<brousch> My small snowblower made in 1970 died 2 years ago and I hadn't bothered to get it fixed.
<brousch> Portland doesn't even have snow on the ground right now
<brousch> Coworkers are making fun of the 1ft snow hat on my minivan
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, I got a snowbrum to start clearing that stuff off
<rick_h_> brousch: nope, I've got portland and cape town in my weather list and it's nuts
<brousch> cape town?
<rick_h_> sprint next week, I've got shorts and sandals on AMZ order this week. :
<rick_h_> :/
<brousch> Ah, I was looking for a cape town, OR
<rick_h_> ah no, when sprints come up I tend to add their weather info so I see kind of what's going on there
<jrwren_> rick_h_: where you going all next week?
<cmaloney> Mark's secret sprint bunker
<jrwren_> i knew it!
<jrwren_> probably more juju junk i can't use.
<rick_h_> pretty much
<brousch> Digging my car out of the driveway last night https://www.dropbox.com/s/moipg0jez9welus/2014-01-26%2020.00.06.jpg
<brousch> That's a minivan
<rick_h_> hah, yea that's digging
<brousch> I have to throw snow over that 8ft fence now because the piles are too big
<jrwren_> so glad I have garage now.
<rick_h_> sssh, you'll get my wife going again
<rick_h_> we technically have one, just can't use it :)
<rick_h_> and this year has been a BAD year for her to remember that
<jrwren_> its you shop?
<rick_h_> yea, basically. There's some bikes/trash cans, etc in there.
<rick_h_> but mostly...shop/wood/cabinets/etc
<jrwren_> we fit 2 on our 1976 built 2 car garage. its tight, but worth it IMO
<rick_h_> yea, when we moved in we used to do that
<jrwren_> then you got a new hobbie
<rick_h_> I think my goal this summer is to try to rearrange things enough to be able to get her in
<rick_h_> if I can move the lumber storage out to under the new porch (if we get it) then I should be able to tighten up space
<jrwren_> just build yourself a new project garage :p
<rick_h_> heh, yea the thought has crossed my mind but $$$$
<jrwren_> understood
<rick_h_> so I try to sneak out in the morning and clear her car and such
<brousch> We have a 1 stall, but the garage is too full of yard stuff to use
<rick_h_> yea, that's why I've put off a snow blower for so long
<rick_h_> they're big
<brousch> I think I could use a fairly large one, but I'd have to park the cars at the end of the driveway near the road, clear the part by the garage, pull one car forward, clear where it was, pull the other car forward, clean the end of the driveway
<jrwren_> I like the exercise that shoveling gives me. :p
<brousch> My back does not like it
<rick_h_> jrwren_: +1
<rick_h_> jrwren_: honestly, if I was home vs away it would not have gotten ordered
<rick_h_> but I fear my wife with a 6inch dump while I wear sandals
<jrwren_> brousch: then you got a weak back, like me, its good to make it stronger
<brousch> Send her taunting MMS messages
<jrwren_> take her with you
<brousch> jrwren_++
<rick_h_> heh, I'm not sure she'll want to be around. It's going to be a sucky week.
<jrwren_> she will be warm and away from home, even if you don't see her, its better than here.
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I have a clever plan
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<cmaloney> 1) Get one of those avatar robots with the iPad attached to it.
<cmaloney> 2) Attach it to a snow blower
<cmaloney> 3) You can clean the drive with it from Cape Town. ;)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: hah, it needs a Rpi in there somewhere
<cmaloney> Naturally.
<jjesse> brousch: did your son have school thismorning?
<brousch> No
<jjesse> min eeither, i think thats the last "free" snow day for mine
<brousch> Tomorrow sounds bad too
<jjesse> yeah cold
<brousch> Probably cancel due to the wind chill or something
<jjesse> the charter school (due to no bussing) won't close until -30 they say
<cmaloney> jjesse: I hope that's Celsius. ;)
<jjesse> -30 F
<jjesse> wind chill
<cmaloney> That's still too cold for kids.
<jjesse> well indoor recess and no waiting at bus stops
<jjesse> still can get to school
<brousch> cmaloney: Wat? Why when I was a kid I had to walk 3/4 mile alone on unplowed streets uphill both ways to stand at the bus stop
<brousch> -30 Was when we put on gloves!
<jjesse> it does seem like we are getting "softer" when it comes to the cold
<jjesse> this just seems like an old school winter to me
<brousch> I remember maybe 2 snow days in 12 years of school. Now there are more than that every year
<greg-g> obligatory xkcd
<brousch> One highlight of our Chicago trip https://www.dropbox.com/s/2f4sv52l6ah38rb/2014-01-25%2018.07.11.jpg
<cmaloney> I <3 when I finish something and then realize it's not going to work the way that I intended it to work at all.
<cmaloney> And in fact the whole thing needs to be put into another table altogether.
<brousch> Latest photo from lunch today: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sablaj6ssm6nobz/2014-01-27%2013.01.45.jpg
<greg-g> brousch: puuuurty
<brousch> That brown in the pile in my mailbox, which has been destroyed. The foreground right is my driveway which has been walled up
<brousch> The pile on the right is what I will have to throw the driveway snow over tonight
<rick_h_> brousch: wins. My snow pile is only a little over the mailbox at this point. Your snow looks heavier as well. More wet due to lake effect?
<brousch> It was pretty dense, but not too bad
<rick_h_> I've discovered that shoveling means you end up with tall piles right by the driveway beacuse you only toss it that far while the folks with blowers have more even because the machines are spreading it out a lot farther
<brousch> Yeah, I try to throw it 4ft into the lawn, but that was not enough this year
<rick_h_> ours is so light that I have to shovel all the snow to the right side of the drive or else eat the snow as I toss it over the pile
<rick_h_> any wind at all just blows it back at me in cloud form
<brousch> The snow along the driveway itself is about 2ft high
<brousch> The road piles just get huge
<brousch> I might push it into the driveway and then to the sides
<rick_h_> I started doing that today
<rick_h_> pushing from the end of the drive to the middle and then tossing over
<brousch> I've never had to do that before
<rick_h_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/12175954635/
<rick_h_> for quick picks here
<rick_h_> hmm, guess I'm just about to the top of the mailbox
<brousch> rick_h_: That's a little less than what we had before Friday
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, no lake here
<rick_h_> but you can see in this one the small pile by the car http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/12176581216/in/photostream/
<rick_h_> I started pushing snow up to there to toss over instead now
<rick_h_> anyway, fun stuff
<brousch> rick_h_: It looks like your mailbox is leaning over
<rick_h_> brousch: yes, I need to replace it this summer
<rick_h_> been on the todo list for a while
<brousch> The piles around people with double-wide driveways here are crazy. Like 5ft tall berms along the driveways
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> OK, it appears Cloudkicker is going on tour for one month: http://blog.cloudkickermusic.com/post/74729258459/tour-details
<cmaloney> Closest is Cleveland Ohio
<cmaloney> (for us)
<cmaloney> greg-g: http://deepspacedestructors.bandcamp.com/album/ii
<cmaloney> Just got the physical disc in and the 4th track is pretty sweet
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-28
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> Apparently schools are closing left and right for tomorrow.
<cmaloney> OCC closed for tomorrow
<cmaloney> OU closed for tomorrow
<rick_h_> yea, it's all the rage to complain about schools closing for 'cold'
<rick_h_> poor neighbor's heat went out :/
<rick_h_> they came by to borrow space heaters, fortunately I've got a bunch
<rick_h_> and https://twitter.com/benbangert/status/427977310755508224 makes me smile
<rick_h_> but OT
<cmaloney> WEll, I think they're smart for closing for 'cold'.
<cmaloney> Because it's fucking cold out there. :)
<rick_h_> yea, love high tomorrow of 2...high
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-us-mi/
<cmaloney> greg-g: Would you change the topic pls?
<cmaloney> http://ur1.ca/gikdc
<cmaloney> br..r.r.r.rr.rr.rr.rr.rr.rrrr.
<rick_h_> yea, pretty much
<rick_h_> hmmm, I'm supposed to run up to the day care and make sure the boy goes to tumbling class...except that involves going outside
<cmaloney> tumbling is overrated.
<brousch> Man-up
<rick_h_> man-up? I barely got out of bed this morning
<brousch> Don't those steroids get you pumped up?
<cmaloney> I'll get the fallout shelter.
<rick_h_> treatment is done, but they just make me angry and snacky
<_stink_> your daycare stays open on these days?  our closes every time Birmingham schools close.
<_stink_> thankfully WSU also wimps out so i am home too.
<rick_h_> _stink_: yea, they close when the schools close because of snow, but so far they've not used 'cold'
<rick_h_> heh, proof it's too cold: https://github.com/mitechie current streak 8 days. Not warm enough to woodwork
<brousch> We use an in-home daycare, so it is open on snow days
<rick_h_> brousch: heh, I'd get nothing done at home then
<brousch> Someone else's home :P
<rick_h_> when the wife and kid are 'off' on thursdays I have to go mobile
<rick_h_> brousch: oic, that's cool
<rick_h_> http://www.buildwithchrome.com/builder# wheeee
<rick_h_> must ... not ... get ... sucked ... in
<widox> oh, neat
<brousch> rick_h_: nice find!
<waf> very cool. so the idea is that we place lego creations at actual GPS coordinates?
<waf> could have some neat augmented reality concepts
<brousch> cmaloney: This looks like something you would use http://imgur.com/a/yzLLf
<cmaloney> brousch: Um, no. :)
<cmaloney> But neat nonetheless. :)
<brousch> Really?
<cmaloney> I'm more of a dice tower fan
<cmaloney> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n8LNxGbZbs
<cmaloney> ^^
<brousch> That seems like a lot of work to replace a random number generator
<cmaloney> It's for those people who think /dev/random doesn't have enough entropy.
<greg-g> cmaloney: windows xp!
<cmaloney> What is getting no support in April, Alex?
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> the OS used for that dice tower optical recognition part
<cmaloney> yeah, not sure why they went with XP.
<cmaloney> Might be a case of "go with what you know"
<greg-g> which is also sad
<greg-g> ;)
<cmaloney> meh. I come to relish the scrambling machinations Microsoft is putting folks through
<brousch> rick_h_: Would this work for the Bookie Chrome extension? http://thenextweb.com/google/2014/01/28/google-brings-chrome-apps-android-ios-lets-developers-submit-google-play-apples-app-store/#!tFVxd
<brousch> Ah, nevermind, this is apps, not extensions
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, could write one but it'd have to be a full chrome app
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-29
<callmeDarwin> What the irc client you all prefer?
<rick_h_> irssi + tmux
<callmeDarwin> ok checking it out
<cmaloney> I'm using weechat + tmux
<jrwren> weechat, i hear good things.
<callmeDarwin> using XChat now but looking around
<callmeDarwin> I'll have to do some more research
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> Oh, the Pebble Steel actually looks like it wasn't beat senseless by the ugly stick
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/01/the-pebble-steel-review-wearables-2-0-arrive/
<cmaloney> I <3 "The Bad": "Some developers still think we want to type on our watches"
<rick_h_> yea, I can't wait until mine ships
<rick_h_> sad I ordered on annoucement day back at CES and missed the first batch
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Wow, that's some demand.
<cmaloney> also: http://www.reddit.com/r/csbooks/comments/1wfoid/hey_guys_im_looking_for_modern_programming/
<cmaloney> I'm an ass, but that's really a dumb question.
<brousch> Totally voting you up
<cmaloney> tx
<jrwren> cmaloney: did you see what the subreddit description says?
<brousch> Ah, they only want free versions of books
<brousch> cmaloney: I'm totally voting you down
<cmaloney> Bah
<cmaloney> Well something tells me it's not released like that.
<jrwren> add that do your comment and then the comment is good
<cmaloney> Whatever. I think she's just looking for free books, as is evidenced by her reply.
<jrwren> oh! a reply!
<rick_h_> woot! with the latest user import crossed 70k bookmarks https://bmark.us/dashboard
<widox> yay
<brousch> Will you send everyone a tshirt when you pass 100k?
<rick_h_> brousch: hah, no. I've got stickers though.
<widox> I think sending out a binder of everyones bookmarks when it reaches 100k is more appropriate :)
<widox> to save on ink, it could be the readable version
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Awesome!
<jrwren> i hate taking python scripts and turning them into proper packages
<rick_h_> jrwren: always start with either cookiecutter or modern-package-template and never have the problem
<cmaloney> http://www.metalinjection.net/tour-dates/motley-crue-announce-final-tour
<cmaloney> brousch: It even starts in Grand Rapids
<cmaloney> So no excuses
<jrwren> rick_h_: yeah... easier said
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I know but have to push. I hate scripts that aren't packagable
<jrwren> me too
<jrwren> i'm making it happen here. its just work for what feels like little gain
<rick_h_> yea, it's the kind of thing that once you start right you notice how nice life is
<rick_h_> especially if the script has deps/etc
<rick_h_> pita to have to go through a readme to use a script
<jrwren> when imp.find_module doesn't work. *rage*
<brousch> cmaloney: My excuse is that Motley Crue sucks
<cmaloney> brousch: All I hear is just more reasons you should go
<rick_h_> smoser: https://twitter.com/alex_gaynor/status/428592822912950272 ?
<smoser> that will be us eventually.
<smoser> and the answer will probably be 'no'
<smoser> :)
<rick_h_> smoser: cool, just ran into it and thought I'd mention
<smoser> the other answer is "its in the cloud image".
<smoser> currently docker maintains this tiny little ubuntu image.
<smoser> we're working towards them to use 'ubuntu core' more directly
<smoser> and posibly to also offer ubuntu cloud image
<smoser> although you can easily just use the ubutnu cloud image in docker too
<rick_h_> cool
<jrwren> ca-certificates IS installed.
<jrwren> at least on the cloud-image I'm running
<rick_h_> jrwren: right, that's what smoser is saying. It's in the cloud image, while Alex doesn't have it in the ubuntu docker image
<jrwren> ah.
<mathomastech> Finally got my Raspberry Pi up and running, and externally accessible via SSH! Only took about 3 weeks :)
<brousch> WTF
<brousch> Should take 30 minutes at most!
<jrwren> new python issue - i'm having problems with imp.find_module. one case it finds it, another case it doesn't.
<mathomastech> brousch: First time installed and setting up arch, messing with port forwarding, setting up DNS records, learning ssh, scp, and screen. All in all a solid day's worth of research and learning. But I only did it may a half hour at a time.
<mathomastech> If I had to do it again, I could probably get it done in an hour or under :)
<brousch> Good learnin
<jrwren> python kinda sucks.
<jrwren> its hacks ontop of hacks in too many places
<rick_h_> jrwren: yep
<jrwren> .NET was/is sooooooooo good in that regard.
<rick_h_> but let me show you ruby and its hacks :P
<jrwren> oh ruby is worse for sure.
<brousch> So go use Java!
<jrwren> NEVAR!
<rick_h_> hah, speaking of hacks
<jrwren> oracle is evil1!
<jrwren> imp.find_module just does not ork.
<jrwren> maybe a mac thing?
<jrwren> 2.7.5 venv thing?
<jrwren> this is driving me mad. can you tell?
<jrwren> even more troubling thing is that it works on antoher system.
<jrwren> someday, I'll master packages and modules
<jrwren> waht is the different between a.b and a/b when loading a module?
<brousch> This function does not handle hierarchical module names (names containing dots). In order to findÂ P.M, that is, submoduleÂ MÂ of packageÂ P, useÂ find_module()Â andÂ load_module()Â to find and load packageÂ P, and then useÂ find_module()with theÂ pathÂ argument set toÂ P.__path__. WhenÂ PÂ itself has a dotted name, apply this recipe recursively.
<jrwren> brousch: thanks!
<jrwren> which explains why a/b/c works on one system, but it doesn't explain why a/b/c doesn't work on antoher system.
<brousch> One system is superior
<brousch> The other is crap
<jrwren> agree, linux > osx
<brousch> Sorry. I don't have any actual useful advice
<jrwren> no, pointing that out was very helpful. I can attack the problem differently
<brousch> The docs have some system-specific wording, but it is not helpful
<jrwren> this is actually better.
<jrwren> i can specify path instead of searching sys.path
<jrwren> very helpful brousch
<brousch> RTFM!
<brousch> Now I feel better
<jrwren> now I get an import error runnign find_module
<jrwren> No frozen submodule named a/b.z
<jrwren> where I have find_module('z','a/b')
<jrwren> so weird!!!
<brousch> What is the /?
<brousch> OH, that's the path?
<jrwren> right
<greg-g> jcastro: hey! I'm in the same hotel for a product owner training thingy that the '08 Google UDS was!
<jrwren> 6 yrs seems like yestreday
<jcastro> greg-g, !
<jcastro> was that the one with the pool in the lobby?
<jcastro> like one of those long pools with rocks in it?
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> in crazy sprawl land of south bay
<greg-g> we had to walk like a mile to the nearest bar
<jcastro> yep
<greg-g> where you and I roomed :)
<cmaloney> my one regret is I never went to a physical UDS
<cmaloney> well, I have many regrets, but that's the most pertinent one at the moment.
<rick_h_> lmorchard: widox waf trevlar cmaloney reminder it's early CHC tonight 7pm
<trevlar> rick_h_: cool
<trevlar> hey could I borrow that cabinet making book from you?
<rick_h_> trevlar: sure, I'll bring a few books down if you'll be there and you can pick over them
<widox> rick_h_: blag, no CHC for me -- wife has the car in GR :(
<rick_h_> widox: booo
<rick_h_> widox: not up for a nice brisk walk? :P
<widox> hah!
<jrwren> brousch: load_module directly instead of using find_module FTW!!!
<jrwren> maybe python doesn't suck as bad I sometimes think <3
<brousch> It is the greatest programming language and ecosystem ever created
<jrwren> next to C# and .NET
<jrwren> or wait... ecosystem.
<jrwren> I take it back.
<jrwren> You are correct.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: http://r.bmark.us/u/af045a9add9327 heads up
<rick_h_> wtf? http://r.bmark.us/u/eb106a51277521
<brousch> hm
<rick_h_> my phone is now a lenovo phone?!
<brousch> If it's a Motorola
<rick_h_> yep
<rick_h_> motox
<brousch> Well, it could be worse
<brousch> Some of the new Lenovo tablets are interesting
<jrwren> anyone have tips for multiple pakcage_dir ?
<brousch> For whowha?
<rick_h_> jrwren: modern-package-template
<rick_h_> it's got the setup for that ootb
<rick_h_> which is one annoying thing because it's another dir level in the package and I've not needed it
<jrwren> i can't.
<jrwren> i'm WAY more complex than that.
<jrwren> i guess if setuptools can't do what i want, that is an option :)
<rick_h_> setuptools does it
<rick_h_> I just mean that it's 'template' is setup for it
<rick_h_> run it in an empty dir and look
<jrwren> too sipmle.
<jrwren> give me something moar complex than that.
<rick_h_> virtualenv ~/tmp/test-package && cd ~/tmp/test-package && bin/pip install modern-package-template && bin/paster create -t modern-package testthingy
<rick_h_> or something like that
<jrwren> yay, modern package template links to docs that don't exist anymore.
<rick_h_> they're right there? https://pypi.python.org/pypi/modern-package-template
<jrwren> links to docs.
<brousch> MPT does not have Python3 port, so it is deprecated
<jrwren> it links to http://packages.python.org/distribute/setuptools.html#namespace-packages
<jrwren> which is 404
<rick_h_> jrwren: oic
<rick_h_> brousch: right, cookiecutter is the new hotness
<rick_h_> brousch: but I've not used it
<brousch> I'll have to look at it. MPT was nice
<brousch> Next GRPUG meeting is packaging and distribution
<rick_h_> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/cookiecutter/0.7.0
<rick_h_> Works with Python 2.6, 2.7, 3.3, and PyPy.
<jrwren> i learned this today: http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/PythonEggs#accessing-package-resources
<jrwren> which is pretty cool
<rick_h_> yea, in theory you can package up a pyramid/etc app and if you access resources like that you just pip install package and can run it
<rick_h_> I use from pkg_resources to get the version number within the package now as well which is handy
<rick_h_> fewer places to update to get script --version to work
<rick_h_> https://github.com/juju/jenkins-github-lander/blob/develop/src/jenkinsgithublander/__init__.py
<brousch> Come talk about it next month. I'll buy you a beer at the 3rd best beer bar in the world in Beer City USA (2 years running)
<jrwren> haha, my use of open() and then load-module made it not zipsafe. hahah
<jrwren> i'm veyr close here.
<jrwren> 2 packages was the key
<jrwren> someday I'll get good at this :)
<jcastro> wait
<jcastro> WHAT
<jcastro> http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/29/5358620/lenovo-reportedly-buying-motorola-mobility-from-google
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, wtf
<rick_h_> jcastro: /me is nervous with my motox now
<jcastro> wasn't there an article on them cancelling nexus?
<jcastro> I was like "oh that makes sense, they have Moto now."
<rick_h_> yea, I saw something about that as they've not updated the N10 in a while
<jcastro> The Moto G in particular is a game changer
<rick_h_> but that article was pointing at those devices in the store that are Play Edition
<jcastro> I would think they didn't update the 10 because a) 7 is where it's at
<rick_h_> so they're getting out of the devices and encouraging them to put out a Play Edition to be auto updated/etc
 * rick_h_ <3 my N10
<jcastro> and b) The 10 was always performant, unlike the old 7, that _had_ to be updated
<rick_h_> much nicer for things
<rick_h_> yea, true. I don't feel like it's 'old' yet
<rick_h_> they did a good job putting good orig hardware in it
<jcastro> so let's see
<jcastro> Android's turned into a near monopoly
<jcastro> HTC is basically doomed
<jcastro> Moto will take _another 2 years_ to figure out whatever they're doing
<rick_h_> yea, :/
<rick_h_> samsung is owning stuff
<jcastro> Yeah, and LG is a small player
<rick_h_> yea, true
<rick_h_> Google initially bought Motorola Mobility for $12.5 billion back in 2012
<rick_h_> :/ is that a 9B write off then?
<jcastro> yeah but they sold off cable box division for like 2B
<rick_h_> poor motorola, they were a game changer
<jcastro> and moto had like 3B onhand cash
<rick_h_> and sad to see them go down like that
<jcastro> but still, the leftover cash ... all for patents
<jcastro> stupid
<rick_h_> yea? I guess. Still crazy to see "bought 12B" and sold for 3, even 8B
<jcastro> imagine if that money would have been spent on R&D instead of patent potfolios
<rick_h_> yea, the new phones are nice
<rick_h_> they were just starting to get out and running and then sell it
<jcastro> I don't have high hopes
<jcastro> especially after the new X1 Carbon
<rick_h_> yea, me either
<jcastro> DEATH SPIRAL
<rick_h_> that was a blow
<rick_h_> though I have to say I keep looking at that yoga2
<jcastro> Though what do I know ... maybe a $179 phone is why they kept losing money, heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-30
<rick_h_> waf: www.lenovo.com/images/gallery/1060x596/lenovo-laptop-thinkpad-x1-carbon-2-keyboard-3.jpg
<rick_h_> https://wiki.mozilla.org/CordovaFirefoxOS
<greg-g> fuck that keyboard
<rick_h_> greg-g: heh, I was showing waf why I don't have faith in lenovo any more
<rick_h_> the fact that the keyboard went through to production, and for sale, on a Thinkpad...is a fireable offense at the min
<cmaloney> Guarantee someoneover at ZDnet is heralding this as the killer feature
<jcastro> http://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpadcirclejerk
<jcastro> this is for you rick_h_
<jrwren> i know I should prefer to type easy_install, but pip is so much shorter and easier :)
<rick_h_> nope, pip won
<rick_h_> uninstall is a darn useful feature
<jrwren> oh yeah.
<jrwren> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/timelib/
<jrwren> nice module there.
<cmaloney> howdy.:)
<stabbinfresh> howdy :)
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> I'm going to start the day by thinking positive thoughts
<cmaloney> like say for instance this email: http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/albinomoose.asp
<cmaloney> Received from a family member
<cmaloney> that wasn't about Obama.
<cmaloney> Ah
<cmaloney> ahhhhhh
<jrwren> happy happy
<rick_h_> party party
<jrwren> pop quiz.
<jrwren> sudo apt-get remove libdbd-mysql-perl mysql-client-5.5 mysql-server mysql-server-5.5 python-mysqldb
<jrwren> why didn't I just apt-get remove libmysqlclient18
<jrwren> ?
<rick_h_> because you weren't sure?
<jrwren> nope.
<jrwren> snmpd depends on it :(
<jrwren> for some reason /usr/sbin/snmptrapd links against it. I can't imagine wh
<jrwren> why
<rick_h_> scale!
<jrwren> oh
<jrwren> The ability to log received traps to a MySQL database was added in Release 5.5
<jrwren> oh net-snmp.
<jrwren> you so silly
<rick_h_> heh, flaky as can be but the google now notifications are working
<widox> rick_h_: yeah, the overall UI changes in the recent update are wonky
<widox> also not a fan of extra icons all up in my status bar
<jcastro> rick_h_, in the browser?
<jcastro> they finally got the app menu to be able to be docked too iirc?
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea
<rick_h_> jcastro: latest canary build
<rick_h_> widox: yea, it'll settle. This has happened before
<rick_h_> the extra chrome in the space above the tabs
<widox> rick_h_: yep, it doesn't "fit" well into my tiling anymore
<cmaloney> I already run a chrome extension to block that crack
<cmaloney> (Google Plus notifications)
<cmaloney> that's all I need is for it to show up in my tray
<widox> cmaloney: this is more then just G+ stuff, its also the Now cards
<cmaloney> right, but it'll likely be all or nothing
<widox> if you use it on your phone for example
<rick_h_> right, the cool bit is the reminders I create on my phone are syncd
<rick_h_> but it's the now weather, sportsball team updates, etc
<cmaloney> yeah that would be handy
<cmaloney> but something telling me someone acknowledged my witticism on G+ is not
<cmaloney> because I am a delicate flower that must be acknowledged
<cmaloney> lest I wilt.
<brousch> How much snow it takes to cancel school http://i.imgur.com/CiuVwRq.png
<widox> yeah, you can turn that off but not Now notifications
<widox> so they are independant
<cmaloney> yeah, but for how long. :)
<cmaloney> seems plus is pervasive.
<brousch> Wow. That's some bait and switch. https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/chromebooks.html#pixel $279
<brousch> Click Buy: $1299
<rick_h_> how many movies can I get into the tablet...go go go
<rick_h_> wow, wtf brousch
<brousch> I was surpised the price had dropped so much
<rick_h_> no kidding
<brousch> I was ready to pick up 2 of them
<brousch> Heh, went to reddit to report it and someone already had https://plus.google.com/+RonnieJonesII/posts/Adde5Auns4H
<cmaloney> bah
<brousch> The Cr-48 is starting to show its age. Having trouble playing YouTube
<rick_h_> yea, some people have gotten some of the newer haswell based ones and liking them
<rick_h_> just make sure to get the ones with a little more GB of ram since multi-tasking is available now
<brousch> All of the new ones are a pathetic 1366x768
<brousch> I guess that's similar to the Cr-48, but I was hoping for better now
<jrwren> i have to lookup how to PPA, everytime :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: makefiles ftw
<jrwren> rick_h_: how does that help?
<brousch> sudo add-apt-repository ppa
<jrwren> brousch: no, submitting
<rick_h_> jrwren: don't have to look it up, just make sysdeps
<brousch> ah
<rick_h_> oh, submitting for a ppa, nvm
<brousch> 2leet4me
<rick_h_> brousch: bummer on the resolution. Even the HP 14 has that res :/
<brousch> They are positioned as cheapo laptops, like netbooks
<rick_h_> yea
<brousch> I guess Grandville schools (near here) is giving them to all kids soon
<rick_h_> I like them and keep track of dev. It'd make an interesting second machine for sure.
<brousch> Great kid's laptop
<rick_h_> kids, guest, night time watching tv thing
<rick_h_> cool, long battery, etc
<brousch> And my tech-impaired father loves his, and my tech-impaired brother loves his
<cmaloney> I think JoDee is the only person in the UNited States that gives a fuck about Curling.
<rick_h_> they still do curling?
<jrwren> I love curling
<rick_h_> :P
<jrwren> its VERY fun to drink and watch.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I stand corrected
<cmaloney> JoDee is the only sane person in the United States that gives a fuck about curling.
<cmaloney> :-P
<brousch> I like curling
<rick_h_> liking != caring
<rick_h_> for the record
<brousch> I care more about it than any sportsball
<brousch> It's like bowling on ice
<rick_h_> really? So you know of teams and players and standings?
<rick_h_> you track scores to see who won/lost?
<brousch> No, but I don't know any standings of any sportsball either
<rick_h_> then it's not caring :)
<brousch> If it's on TV, I am more likely to watch curling than sportsball
<brousch> That's probably the best way to put it
<jrwren> i know none of that.
<jrwren> I don't care about it at all.
<callmeDarwin> curling is great Sunday nap TV
<jrwren> but I do enjoy drinking beer and watching it
<jrwren> whoa, cloud-init docs looks good on the new RTD themem http://cloudinit.readthedocs.org/en/latest/topics/examples.html
<jrwren> smoser is my favorite person: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1244355
<smoser> jrwren, are you asking for that fixed in precise ?
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> in next cut of cloud image :)
<rick_h_> curses, of course my pebble steel ships today and arrives while on a sprint.
<jrwren> you've been waiting for that for a while
<brousch> rick_h_: That always happens to you
<rick_h_> yea, I was hoping it'd come before the trip. They were supposed to start shipping the 28th
<rick_h_> but it's going to hit the weekend now and oh well
<smoser> jrwren, shouldn't be too hard to do that. you could do the patch
<smoser> and i'd get it sponsored for you
<smoser> even mention your name in a changelog !
<jrwren> smoser: i don't even know where to begin. coach me?
<jrwren> smoser: e.g. I don't even know what cloudinit version is in precise-updates would I be working off cloud-init trunk or some branched version for precise?
<smoser> its fixd in trunk
<smoser> (bzr branch lp:cloud-init)
<smoser> its fixed in trusty:
<smoser> (bzr branch lp:ubuntu/cloud-init/trusty)
<smoser> its not fixed in precise-proposed
<jrwren> so, all I have to do is cherrypick the patch?
<smoser> (bzr branch lp:ubuntu/precise-proposed/cloud-init)
<smoser> yeah, basically.
<smoser> get lp:ubuntu/precise-proposed/cloud-init
<jrwren> sounds easy
<smoser> and then apply the fix from lp:cloud-init with quilt
<smoser> QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches
<smoser> you'll ned ^ to convince quilt where your patches are that are already applied.
<jrwren> i've never quilted.
<smoser> oh no?. its really a nice way of maintaining patches.
<jrwren> can't I just git cherry-pick ?
<smoser> well, no. :-(
<jrwren> was j/k
<brousch> rick_h_: How is your Nexus 10 holding up?
<jrwren> smoser: should I be reving this in changelog? like 0.6.4 ?
<smoser> 0.6.3-0ubuntu1.9 is what is current (just uploaded to precise-proposed yesterday)
<smoser> so next is 0.6.3-0ubuntu1.10
<jrwren> i'm asking for the ChangeLog line.
<jrwren> dch --increment it is.
<smoser> right. dch -i.
<smoser> the changelog line should just say something about the change.
<jrwren> ChangeLog v. debian/changelog
<smoser> ah.
<smoser> dch -i
<smoser> you're essentially looking to end up with a diff something like in
<jrwren> i did a bzr log -r 890 -v
<smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6845949/
<jrwren> err, -v -p
<jrwren> nah, that is SmartOS crap. I just want cloud-archive:
<rick_h_> brousch: well, loaded it up with movies for the flight. Got 6 downlaoded
<jrwren> i was going for this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6845957/
<smoser> jrwren, right. i was just saying that is an example of the cnages you'd make
<jrwren> but tree has been reorganzied making it not easy to follow
<jrwren> smoser: cool
<smoser> so what you have ther is reasonable.
<smoser> you end up with a new patch in debian/patches
<smoser> (and stupidly revision controlled .pc/* files)
<jrwren> ugh.
<jrwren> i don't do debian packages this way.
<smoser> quilt 3.0 is the format that is the most popular now.
<smoser> bzr revision controlls the .pc directories
<smoser> (i think thats annoying, but fighting it means that you fight a robot that does automated imports, and when fighting robots, you lose because they do stuff when you're sleeping)
<smoser> so i gave up.
<jrwren> this single commit doesn't even manually port cleanly.
<jrwren> add_sources in 0.6.3 takes a searchList instead of template_params
<jrwren> or... maybe i can deal with it.
<brousch> rick_h_: My wife has taken to the size of my TouchPad (10"), but the hackiness of Cyanogenmod on there bugs her. I'm thinking of a N10 for her
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, I mean I gave away my N7 and just use the N10. I find that things break down into 10" tasks and phone tasks
<rick_h_> ssh to real computer, writing doc with BT keyboard, or watching movies
<brousch> I'm getting too old to read PDFs on my N7 :(
<rick_h_> and tablet games for the boy once in a while
<rick_h_> heh, yea
<rick_h_> that too, I picked up a wine magazine subscription I use it for
<rick_h_> though I hate reading on lcv
<rick_h_> lcd
<brousch> color!
<rick_h_> yea I know
<rick_h_> but still, it's text
<jrwren> smoser: are there tests I can run?
<smoser> make test
<smoser> shoudl run
<smoser> i'm not sure if i added a test for that or not.
<brousch> I have a feeling I will love the N10 and will sell all of our old ones
<smoser> jrwren, yeah, and i know it isn't theeasiest port.
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, I was hoping they'd update it but honestly it doesn't have any issues
<rick_h_> brousch: and it sounds like they're not going to update it now :/
<smoser> porting the logic is fine.
<smoser> and even porting a easy hack of "if input.startswith("cloud:")"
<smoser> actually that might be the smartest / least invasive.
<jrwren> smoser: no, I think I grokked it.
<brousch> rick_h_: I've been waiting since Oct for new N10, but it is all just rumors
<rick_h_> brousch: yep
<jrwren> templater.render_string(source, template_params) was util.render_string(source, searchList)   threw me a bit.
<jrwren> smoser: so, I bzr committed, now what? :)
<smoser> bzr push lp:~ubuntu/precise-proposed/cloud-init/lp1244355
<smoser> err..
<smoser> sorry
<smoser> bzr push lp:~jrwren/ubuntu/precise-proposed/cloud-init/lp1244355
<smoser> i think.
<smoser> then open https://code.launchpad.net/~jrwren/ubuntu/precise-proposed/cloud-init/lp1244355
<smoser> (if jrwren is your lp id)
<smoser> and hit "submit for review"
<jrwren> evarlast, cuz I'm old school :)
<jrwren> No such distribution series precise-proposed.
<brousch> Ah, great. More snow is coming
<jrwren> maybe im' not bzr logged in
<rick_h_> brousch: yep, wife will get to use the snow blower for the first real time Sat
<jrwren> hrm, no, same error
<smoser> jrwren, i guess drop the -proposed
<jrwren> i just did it to cloud-init/cloud-init, but that is my problem.
<jrwren> you want a merge proposal for lp:ubuntu/precise-proposed/cloud-init ?
<smoser> right.
<jrwren> i added you as reviewer. I hope that is OK
<cmaloney> Wow, didn't realize that Serge  Hallyn was part of the LXC project
<cmaloney> he was at Hope college when I was there.
<cmaloney> I doubt he would remember me.
<smoser> jrwren, hey. yeah, that sifne. i took a quick look. you need to add a patch in debian/patches/
<smoser> i knwo . its annoying.
<smoser> but thats how it works
<smoser> it probalb wont build like this.
<jrwren> how to do that?
<jrwren> diff > debian/patches/XXX ?
<smoser> well, basically. yeah.
<smoser> but using quilt.
<smoser> you can do something like
<smoser> diff > my.diff
<smoser> quilt import my.diff
<smoser> i have to run.s
<smoser> sorry.
<jrwren> this is one no one contributes to debuntu
<jrwren> in bzr, how do I point my HEAd to -3 ?
<jrwren> seriously, I've no idea how you'all still use bzr.
<cmaloney> waf: ping
<jrwren> LP: Timeout error, please try again in a few minutes. is also why no one contributes :p
<cmaloney> waf: n/m. Taking my own advice and using email instead.
<cmaloney> jrwren: bitch bitch bitch
<jrwren> cmaloney: i know :)
<jrwren> I am a whiney bitch. This is well established
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> As long as you're OK with it. ;)
<jrwren> i'm not really. I shoudl put up or STFU
<cmaloney> I <3 that I can use the Squeezebox at the Barnes and Noble.
<cmaloney> Didn't get a chance to sync my phone so instead I can listen to some jazz in the cafe.
<jrwren> i use itunes at B&N :p
<jrwren> VPN home and play all my media from home fileserver
<jrwren> its comcastic
<rick_h_> jrwren: http://yannesposito.com/Scratch/en/blog/2009-12-14-Git-vs--Bzr/ and from that looks like bzr revert -r -3 pipo
<jrwren> didn't matter, just rebranched
<rick_h_> k
<jrwren> its simple: I don't know bzr, and I have zero incentive to.
<rick_h_> no argument here
<jrwren> TY though
<rick_h_> https://github.com/juju/juju-gui
<rick_h_> :)
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> very cool
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-31
<cmaloney> lmorchard: You have opened the floodgates.
<cmaloney> lmorchard: Prog metal is one of my favorite genres
<lmorchard> Heh, I figured I might
<cmaloney> Just added some more to the G+ post.
<lmorchard> Realized I was in a rut on like just 2 albums from 2 bands & needed to expand
<cmaloney> Yeah, I've been there. Usually lasts a week. ;)
<lmorchard> I think I listened to just 2 dream theater albums on repeat when I wrote my last book
<cmaloney> What's your opinion of the more metal trappings? (growl vocals, mega fast tempos, heavy distortion)?
<lmorchard> Lately for some reason I've been stuck on just one Mastodon album as my "get down to business" playlist
<cmaloney> Ah, now I have something to work with. :)
<cmaloney> Which album?
<lmorchard> Crack the Skye
<cmaloney> http://depthsnc.bandcamp.com/album/pizza-party-ep
<lmorchard> I can kind of go back & forth... I was on a Kansas trip like all last summer, but I can appreciate a lot of metal
<cmaloney> Did you pick up "The Hunter" from Mastodon?
<lmorchard> Hmm, been meaning to check that one out
<cmaloney> Blood Mountain and Crack The Skye are like Mastodon's "Master of Puppets / Ride the Lightning"
<cmaloney> The Hunter is their And Justice for All
<cmaloney> Solid album
<cmaloney> Opinions n Yes?
<lmorchard> Yeah, I'm a big Yes fan
<cmaloney> Fly from Here is a solid effort
<lmorchard> I'm a little so-so on the very newest stuff since Union, but haven't checked out Fly from Here yet
<cmaloney> I'm not a huge yes fan
<cmaloney> Jon ANderson was a take it / leave it part for a while
<lmorchard> This Pizza Party EP sounds like something I can get down with
<lmorchard> Looks like I got some playlists to load up for tomorrow :D
<cmaloney> http://cloudkickermusic.com/album/beacons
<cmaloney> http://cloudkickermusic.com/album/fade
<cmaloney> http://cloudkickermusic.com/album/let-yourself-be-huge
<cmaloney> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfZMTDcqKnQ
<cmaloney> The Ocean: Pelagial is my album of 2013.
<cmaloney> Played the fuck out of that album for a few weeks
<cmaloney> There's two discs: w/ Vocals and Instrumental
<cmaloney> I actually prefer the vocals which is rare for me.
<lmorchard> Heh, I forgot youtube lifted that old 10min limit on videos
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's nice to be able to preview an album without plunking down cash
<cmaloney> https://bandcamp.com/craigmaloney
<lmorchard> I've also been listening to a lot of Spotify, but still spring for albums occasionally
<cmaloney> not all of these are prog, but some of them
<cmaloney> are
<lmorchard> Heh, I see I've found a nicely sized iceberg here
<cmaloney> Oh yeah
<cmaloney> https://earache.bandcamp.com/album/outer-isolation
<cmaloney> if you can get over the guy's screaming vocals (took me a bit) this one is really rewarding
<cmaloney> thrash with technical death elements.
<lmorchard> Heh, Tetrastructural Minds starts off like I just hit the boss level
<cmaloney> You have.
<lmorchard> And I'm saying heh a lot
<cmaloney> But yeah it took me a little bit to get over the vocals
<lmorchard> Hmm, yeah, I could see that... might have to be in more angsty mood to really get into that
<cmaloney> It grows on you. It's a little jarring right out of the gate
<cmaloney> but it's one of my more listened to albums
<cmaloney> https://semanticsaturation.bandcamp.com/album/solipsistic
<lmorchard> I also used to listen to a lot of self-indulgent goth music, so  it's not totally out there
<cmaloney> This one is one of those prog instrumental albums with Derek Sherinian / Virgil Donati
<cmaloney> Sounds a lot like Planet X to me
<cmaloney> https://toundra.bandcamp.com/album/iii
<cmaloney> Haven't picked this one up yet
<lmorchard> I see I'll have to spend some time on bandcamp too
<cmaloney> yeah, bandcamp is amazing
<cmaloney> I think the post rock tag will keep you busy for a year.
<cmaloney> https://krimh.bandcamp.com/album/explore-2
<cmaloney> https://metropolisrecords.bandcamp.com/album/weapon
<cmaloney> *cough*
<lmorchard> Yeah, this is all good stuff, thanks for throwing it my way :)
<cmaloney> np. More than happy to share.
<cmaloney> If there's anything you want to check out feel free to ping me.
<lmorchard> Oh yeah, I think I bought that Skinny Puppy album, but haven't queued it up again since it came out
<cmaloney> lmorchard: It's fucking brilliant
<lmorchard> Have you heard any of the Ohgr stuff?
<cmaloney> I'm finding I prefer listening to the newer stuff
<cmaloney> No, sadly I haven't picked any up
<cmaloney> Not sure what my problem is, other than I don't think his stuff gets the distribution
<lmorchard> Ohgr's a lot like this new Skinny Puppy
<lmorchard> Maybe even a bit more poppy, oddly enough
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's what I've heard.
<cmaloney> Fuck, there's a new FLA album
<cmaloney> I can't keep up
<lmorchard> Heh
<lmorchard> Yeah, just when I thought all those bands were done, they get more work done
<cmaloney> I think that's why I've graviated away from industrial: there's a new album every year.
<cmaloney> I'm glad Ministry is calling it a day.
<lmorchard> Yeah, I lost track of Ministry probably like 10 years ago
<cmaloney> Ever since Filth Pig I lost interest.
<cmaloney> And everything since sounded like Psalm 69 revved up
<lmorchard> I will say that they did a cover of What A Wonderful World that hurt my brain, but yeah pretty much variations on Psalm 69
<cmaloney> I liked the covers album
<cmaloney> at least it wasn't bitching about Bush
<lmorchard> Wow, crimony they have a lot of albums I never noticed
<cmaloney> Ministry or FLA?
<lmorchard> Ministry.. yeah I think I checked out around Filth Pig too
<lmorchard> But FLA too
<cmaloney> FLA has been pretty consistently awesome when they're not fulfilling a contract.
<cmaloney> Monument was a corporate album
<lmorchard> Last FLA album I actually bought was Civilization
<cmaloney> everything since has been pretty solid.
<lmorchard> like in 2004
<lmorchard> Though I think I got Airmech too, but didn't realize it was FLA since it's also the sound track to a pretty neat game
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> Artificial Soldier is quite good
<cmaloney> IED is pretty good as well
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+AndrewChason/posts/Cbk4bukZ9CC
<lmorchard> This should be good
<cmaloney> lmorchard: Also congrats on finding Spock's Beard. They're an amazing band.
<cmaloney> one of my favorites
<jrwren> +1 on Skinny Puppy and Ogre
<cmaloney> I lucked into them on some mailing list
<cmaloney> (I think Dream Theater related)
<cmaloney> and by the kindness of strangers someone sent me their first few albums
<lmorchard> Yeah, I think I just randomly threw something at google like "give me another band like dream theater" and Spock's Beard came up
<cmaloney> lmorchard: Familiar with King's X?
<lmorchard> I'm somewhat amazed lately by Google returning useful stuff when I just vomit things into the search box
<lmorchard> I want to say I listened to some of their stuff in the 90s
<lmorchard> Oh probably the 80s, since I just peeked at wikipedia
<cmaloney> yeah, that was their key-day.
<cmaloney> hey-day.
<lmorchard> and embarassingly enough in relation to Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey
<cmaloney> gretchen goes to nebraska was 1989
<cmaloney> To me they're what Kansas would have been had Jimi Hendrix fronted them.
<lmorchard> Huh, that's an interesting idea
<cmaloney> and had they been a power-trio
<cmaloney> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x19t76c_king-s-x-performing-jimi-hendrix-s-manic-depression-at-woodstock-94_music
<cmaloney> lmorchard: Also: http://www.reddit.com/r/progrockmusic/
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/progmetal
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> morn
<brousch> rick_h_: You still here? I thought you left
<rick_h_> brousch: car arrives in an hour
<rick_h_> hopefully, never taken a metro car to the airport before
<brousch> That's right. Flee before the snow storm. You can't handle the snow!
<rick_h_> oh yea...scared me
<rick_h_> spend $$ on snow blower than leave so I don't have to use it
<rick_h_> nothing worse than getting a new toy you can't use
<brousch> Speaking of toys, my profit sharing bonus came in, so I'm ordering a N10 and wireless charger for my wife
<brousch> I'll probably give my N7 to my son, sell the weak tablets, and get an N10 for myself
<cmaloney> brousch: nice!
<cmaloney> Hope they net something
<brousch> They will: HP touchpad is still beloved by many, and Transformer Infinity is still worth something
<cmaloney> brousch: You looking at the "Buy It Now" prices on Ebay?
<brousch> I'll keep the Nook Color with CM as an Android 2.3 test device
<brousch> cmaloney: Hah, no
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: good game, btw.
<ColonelPanic001> that was fun. Much better on mobile, the notifications made all the difference
<brousch> Go?
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Actually I think you might have won that one
<cmaloney> wasn't sure about that one stone
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeah.
<cmaloney> We've been doing a play-by-post game on the Dragon Go Server
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: I have another game invite for you if you're interested.
<cmaloney> I have a hard time determining what is considered a dead stone
<cmaloney> and I wish the computer was better at picking those out
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: And yeah, it was a good game. Thank you for the chance to play against a real human
<cmaloney> I won one game against GNUGo with the highest handicap I could get. It was rather surreal
<cmaloney> It just started passing after I made a pretty major capture
<rick_h_> brousch: wireless charger for it? That's got to be a pita to use
<rick_h_> brousch: I got https://www.amazon.com/gp/css/order-history/ref=ohs_order_orderid?ie=UTF8&hasWorkingJavascript=1&opt=ab&qid=&search=105-5667181-1176227&sr= and like it
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: sure, I'll try and remember to start it up later
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Cool
 * cmaloney played another quick game at lunch. 5 handicap vs. Gnu Go on 9x9. Managed to get ahead again and gain territory.
<cmaloney> I look forward to the day when I can win on 9x9 without training wheels.
<cmaloney> The 19x19 board without training wheels seems a long way off. :)
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<cmaloney> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aQAuN_2gbUk/Us50rhHwasI/AAAAAAAAGCE/BaQYOu8M-Cc/w299-h775-no/9_3_coding.jpg
<ColonelPanic001> I like the one for latex
<cmaloney> My only regret with LaTeX is I don't have many uses for it on a daily basis
<cmaloney> but I know that if I ever decide to publish RPG stuff it'll all be done in LaTeX.
<cmaloney> unless it's for Steve Jackson Games because they have some funky Word template they use.
<cmaloney> ;)
<lmorchard> cmaloney: Getting into Go?
<brousch> rick_h_: I can't see that link since it looks like a link to your order. I guess this charger isn't wireless, just magnetic http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D8IC2IY/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<rick_h_> brousch: ah ic
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Original-Cable-Google-Faster-Charge/dp/B00D7NZLK6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391192799&sr=8-1&keywords=nexus+10+pogo+charger is what I got, something like it
<brousch> looks similar, but without a dock
<rick_h_> but yea, a pogo cable that's magnetic but no dock
<rick_h_> I've got it in a case and such and not sure how a dock would work
<rick_h_> because I want the case to stand it up when movie watching/playing games for the boy
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009RZPH1G/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<brousch> I have that for N7
<brousch> Well, similar
<rick_h_> still fits in a dock?
<brousch> No. The Touchpad has a wireless charging dock that makes it nice to grab and use
<brousch> I wanted similar for the N10
<cmaloney> lmorchard: Yeah, a little bit
<cmaloney> If it's good enough for Nolan Bushnell to name his company after it I figure I should give it a go. ;)
<brousch> http://laughingsquid.com/nasty-icons-a-collection-of-50-very-rude-vector-icons/
<brousch> Replace bookie icons with those
<jrwren> zomg, alt-left and alt-right changes windows? is this tmux default or byobu?
<jrwren> its byobu
<jrwren> pretty nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-01
<ColonelPanic001> bye, darwin
<ColonelPanic001> Darwin the Dolphin
<ColonelPanic001> Dagwood the Dagger
<ColonelPanic001> that show just like the letter D
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> Good mornig
<cmaloney> morning even
<rick_h_> howdy
<rick_h_> Africa is hot that is all
<greg-g> the south one?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That matches my expectations.
<jrwren> that snow is HEAVY
<jrwren> ouch my aching back
<cmaloney> I've given up all hope of going outside until Monday.
<cmaloney> Which is fine because I have plenty of crap to do at home before Monday anyway.
<gamerchick02> same here. i'd like to go to microcenter but... yeah.
<gamerchick02> anyone have a good rec for a bag for an HP Elitebook?
<gamerchick02> i have an 8540w right now and i'm going to be upgraded to a larger and heavier one at the end of this month
<rick_h_> dammit, sucky wifi is not acceptable
 * rick_h_ is sitting in the lobby because you canse SEE any of the APs from his room
<gamerchick02> i agree
<jrwren> 8540w is huge already and you are going bigger?!?  zomg do you work for GM?
<gamerchick02> Chrysler
<gamerchick02> i'll have massive arms by the time i switch jobs. :-P
<jrwren> i was close
<jrwren> ha!
<gamerchick02> hah you were!
<jrwren> michelle obama arms
<gamerchick02> i kind of do. but yeah. i need a padded bag. my swiss gear had a zipper come unstitched.
<gamerchick02> i'm looking at everything from Tom Bihn to Timbuk2 to targus but i'm not sure
<gamerchick02> i have a Bihn cafe bag and i love it through and through but i'm not sure i want to drop $180 on a briefcase and that's with no laptop insert (an additional $30!)
<rick_h_> I went small so can't help you
<rick_h_> <3 my tom bihn, I've owned a dozen packs and it's the best
<gamerchick02> well i *can't* go small. it's assigned and i'm on the CAD track so i guess bigger is better
<gamerchick02> tho i'm not going to be rocking the 17.3" one thank ye godx
<gamerchick02> gods\
<gamerchick02> typing is an issue for me tonight, forgive me.
<gamerchick02> did i tell you guys that i got the MaxKeyboard i was looking at with the Cherry Browns?
<gamerchick02> it got shipped to my mom's house and i'll get it next weekend. :-D
<jrwren> why is sh called a shell? from where did the use of the word shell come?
<gamerchick02> i dunno.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-02
<tony-smlr> SMLR Live is Video http://www.youtube.com/embed/uAs7qm7M81A  - Audio http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<tony-smlr> we are also chatting on #smlr
<rick_h_> howdy
<cmaloney> morning
<gamerchick02> morning to all the snowbound peeps in here.
<derekv> what the heck should I put for groupId in an new opensource library
<derekv> reminds me i need a company name
<derekv> for software
<derekv> or I could recycle my DBA 0panic.com
<jrwren> what is a groupId?
<derekv> its metainfo for maven, by convention its a domain name you control (reversed) and the same as a root package name for the project
<derekv> http://code.google.com/p/guava-libraries/source/browse/pom.xml#12
<jrwren> looks same as your package prefix
<derekv> yes
<derekv> damn android studio
<cmaloney> I've really disliked that practice in Java
<cmaloney> It makes sense for big companies but makes no sense for anyone else
<cmaloney> Though I really really want to register something lewd so I can release Java packages under that name
<cmaloney> like com.javafucksgoatsforbreakfast.package."
 * cmaloney checks to see if that's registered.
<cmaloney> Nope, still available.
<greg-g> paultag, of ubuntu/debian fam, has anized.org registered for this reason (org.anized.whatever)
<derekv> assholes
<derekv> 0panic.com is a valid domain name
<derekv> com.0panic is not a valid java package
<greg-g> haha
<greg-g> sorry
<greg-g> I feel for ya
<derekv> supposed i'll use com.controlallrobots
<derekv> everything about java is retarded
<cmaloney> yes
<cmaloney> This is the same company that promoted /opt
<derekv> I wouldn't be using it if I could just settle on one thing I'm into long enough to persue it as a career
<derekv> i have some pretty venomous thoughts about java sometimes... like how its an avenue for people whith no ability or interest to still enjoy careers as software developers
<greg-g> I doubt language makes much of a difference there
<cmaloney> yeah, I don't blame Java for that.
<derekv> maybe not
<cmaloney> I blame schools for choosing it as the anti-C++
<derekv> cmaloney: i think that's closer to what I'm trying to say
<cmaloney> and to be fair there were some neat things that Java promosed
<cmaloney> promised even
<greg-g> just stick with LISP
<cmaloney> and had Sun not been trying hard to keep Java from being taken over by Microsoft we might have had somet of them come to fruition
<derekv> ok i'm probably going to come off as an asshole here but, it has to happen sometimes.  on the one hand, you have things that are tough like getting good with pointers
<cmaloney> yep
<derekv> you have higher level stuff like closures or functional programming
<derekv> if neither one of those things is your schtick ... fine
<derekv> there's still ways to be a programmer
<cmaloney> I think the big problem was C++ was a big enough hot mess that anything looked better by comparison
<derekv> but I don't see the point for schools to dumb things down for poeple who want to call themselves computer scientists
<greg-g> they don't want to
<greg-g> that's the thing
<greg-g> they want a degree to get a job
<derekv> if your getting a degree in computer science, well, learn to use pointers, learn to understand lisp, etc
<greg-g> only the ones that go on to grad school want to be called computer scientists
<derekv> that's pretty easy to get too
<derekv> just time consuming
<derekv> maybe a PHD is different, I don't know
<waf> do you consider pointers to be part of computer science?
<greg-g> all education is easy if typical college stuff is easy for you
<waf> i'd say computer science is more about algorithms
 * greg-g nods
<waf> so java would work fine
<derekv> waf: yes but I understand what your saying
<waf> the language doesn't really matter
<derekv> waf: because pointers has to do with the reality of how machines actually work
<waf> now, i don't like java either, but it made sense for colleges to choose it at the time
<waf> so i think it makes sense to have maybe one or two classes where you use C
<waf> which most colleges have (citation needed)
<derekv> waf: if you subtract the physical machine totally and just focus on algorithms your actually just in a branch of Math now
<cmaloney> waf: I think that's part of the problem.
<cmaloney> derekv: Um, not really
<waf> derekv: right, which is why pretty much every college still has at least one C or C++ class
<cmaloney> If the machine is a VM then you learn the ins and outs of the VM.
<greg-g> let's see, debate/talk CS vs Math or go watch sportsball
<waf> well, out of my sample size of 3, all 3 had c/c++ mandatory classes
<cmaloney> greg-g: sportsball is overrated.
<waf> i have it on in the background. that counts right?
<greg-g> I don't have a tv, and all other options are apparently piracy on the high seas
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-26
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> well early one at least
<jrwren> morning.
<rick_h_> jrwren: glad to see you made it home from the airport safe
<rick_h_> catch up on much sleep?
<jrwren> oh yeah. I slept like mad.
<rick_h_> :)
<jrwren> Did go to sleep too early on sat though. Made it till about 7:30.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> heh
<ColonelPanic001> 'morning
<_stink_> hello
<cmaloney> Howdy.
<greg-g> MediaWiki Developer Summit starts NOW :)
<rick_h_> woot!
<rick_h_> go go gadget greg-g
<greg-g> after last week's Wikimedia All hands, it's a busy 2 weeks
<brousch> cmaloney: I take it you didn't get around the those Bookie Dev Start Docs
<cmaloney> Not yet
<cmaloney> So I get to play chaperone. :)
<brousch> Hm, the tablet clearly has the Windows button http://www.onedu.fi/web/offline/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-27
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> indeed
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> wooot!
<jrwren> is otou the opposite of woot?
<cmaloney> Of course.
<rick_h_> mmmmm so yummy https://flic.kr/p/qXsksL
<widox> rick_h_: oooo
<rick_h_> non fubar keyboard!
<widox> how you liking the 14"?
<rick_h_> jcastro: ^
<rick_h_> widox: so far I've just completed a usb install while on a standup meeting so no idea yet :)
<widox> yay mouse buttons
<rick_h_> but big res
<jcastro> man dude
<rick_h_> so hopefully nice
<widox> ah
<jcastro> what's the rez?
<rick_h_> 2560x1440
<brousch> wassat?
<jcastro> ! nice
<jcastro> I have one on my desktop
<jcastro> that rez screen I mean
<rick_h_> moar pixels!
<rick_h_> but yea, 14" seems so big after 12" for so long, then 13"
<rick_h_> feel like i'm that benjamin button living life in reverse
<rick_h_> went 15->14->12 and now back
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> I am resisting the move back up
<rick_h_> jcastro: will show in cape town
<rick_h_> bringing two laptops, one setup for private demo stuff and the new one as the workhorse
<jcastro> I want to type on it for a while
<jcastro> the thing is
<rick_h_> sure, I'll have two :)
<brousch> what model is that?
<rick_h_> borrow it for an afternoon lol
<rick_h_> brousch: x1 carbon
<jcastro> I am really seeing the benefits of the ramm ideal
<jcastro> throwaway chromebook for travel
<rick_h_> yea, tis true
<rick_h_> though I really need to be able to do demos/etc that gets hard across servers
<rick_h_> I have to bring the demo notebook for SSO/login from the cli
<rick_h_> for example, doign it on a remote server fails
<brousch> Very nice. Very expensive
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Ooooooh. :)
<mrgoodcat> afternoon :)
<mrgoodcat> my data structures class is at least partially graded by integration testing
<DrDaemonEye> afternoon mrgoodcat :)  Data Structures sounds like a fun way to spend an afternoon
<rick_h_> sounds like fun :)
 * DrDaemonEye needs to work on understanding data structures better
<mrgoodcat> it is pretty cool
<mrgoodcat> extra credit for fastest implementation each week
<mrgoodcat> thats fun :)
<mrgoodcat> EC for first working implementation too
<DrDaemonEye> I bet.  May I ask where you are taking this class at?
<mrgoodcat> OCC
<DrDaemonEye> ahh okay.  I took one at WCC when I was doing their c++ program
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Which campus?
<mrgoodcat> auburn
<cmaloney> You're not taking an astronomy class there are you?
<mrgoodcat> no lol
<mrgoodcat> sounds fun tho
<mrgoodcat> i <3 the natural sciences
<cmaloney> Thursday nights
<cmaloney> My wife teaches it. :)
<mrgoodcat> oh cool
<mrgoodcat> i think i remember hearing something about that at a CHC
<mrgoodcat> might have to take it sometime
<cmaloney> Yeah, if you need some science credits she'd be a good instructor
<cmaloney> though any of the instructors in Astronomy would be good
<mrgoodcat> +110pts extra credit for knowing craig :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, not so much
<mrgoodcat> lol
<cmaloney> You will work, but if you pay attention and do the work you'll be fine
<brousch> I would take that class just to heckle her
<mrgoodcat> my brother might have taken it
<mrgoodcat> he took astronomy but idk who his prof was
<cmaloney> brousch: You should know better. :)
<cmaloney> One does not heckle JoDee in her natural habitat.
<brousch> It is fun because I don't have to live with her. All of the repercussions fall on you
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Was it Thursday night?
<brousch> So by heckling her I am annoying you
<cmaloney> Because that's the only time she's taught
<mrgoodcat> not sure
<cmaloney> jcastro: That Robert T. Skype call is awesome.
<cmaloney> Have to watch the video
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> it's awesome
<rick_h_> one for cmaloney https://twitter.com/FromAnEgg/status/560112017269219330
<cmaloney> Wow. Not sure. Likely spreadsheets and a three-ring binder. :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: hah, I figured you'd have some gaming know-how on that one
<cmaloney> That's pretty much what I used when I GMed for JoDee on occasion
<cmaloney> file-folders and paper
<cmaloney> I think there's some special software that you can use, but that's the quickest / most flexible.
<cmaloney> Though I hadn't thought to use mindmaps
<cmaloney> Seems that could get ugly
<rick_h_> jcastro: any help/love finding answers appreciated http://askubuntu.com/questions/578600/getting-2015-x1-carbon-trackpiont-buttnos-to-work
<rick_h_> damn thing is in the bios turned off the trackpad and it still worked. :/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-28
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/01/youtube-declares-html5-video-ready-for-primetime-makes-it-default/
<cmaloney> YAY!
<cmaloney> Too bad I bet way too early on my bet with Wolfger
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> http://www.rushbackstage.com/rushbackstage/collectibles/rush-fly-by-night-barstool.html
<cmaloney> http://www.rushbackstage.com/rushbackstage/collectibles/rush-2112-barstool.html
<cmaloney> Seriously, if they had the Caress of Steel barstool I might consider it
<cmaloney> They have albums 1, 2, and 4
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-29
<cmaloney> Nice, apparently someone stole my Debit card number
<_stink_> D:
<rick_h_> ruh roh :/
<rick_h_> y
<cmaloney> Yeah, all fun
<cmaloney> At the very least they caught it
<rick_h_> yea, good stuff that it didn't go unnoticed
<cmaloney> ye gods
<cmaloney> ...
<cmaloney> You are all missing some incredible storytelling behind rick_h_
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> damn
<rick_h_> I'm working hard to block out the hard hitting first date (from online dating) discussion taking place
<cmaloney> I swear this guy is either living a charmed life or he's full of shit.
<cmaloney> half expecting him to tell her how she can save hundreds on car insurance.
<_stink_> try this one weird trick!
<cmaloney> Dude's an extra in a movie, a brony, Jiu Jitsu master.
<cmaloney> meditation
<cmaloney> positive vibes aplenty
<rick_h_> $ INI=test.ini make test_bookie.db
<rick_h_> cmaloney: ^
<rick_h_> $ make test
<rick_h_> http://docs.bmark.us/en/latest/tests.html
<jrwren> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<_stink_> yes
<brousch> This is my first time with Pete's Coffee. I expect a mouth party or I will be disappointed
<rick_h_> brousch: lol
<rick_h_> brousch: my first peet's vanilla latte I was all "stupid peets, closing down my caribou...O..M..G this is candy in my mouth!"
<DrDaemonEye> brousch: you'll have to tell me how Pete's coffee is... IIRC, there is one not too far from where I live.
<brousch> I am drinking decaf Sumatra. Hm, it lacks the burned aftertaste of Starbucks and has more flavor than Biggby's
<cmaloney> brousch: Is there a Peet's near you?
<cmaloney> All of the ones in our area shut
<rick_h_> cmaloney: he's out west, they get everything fun
<brousch> No. I ordered it through the mail
<rick_h_> it probably stays open until 10pm as well
<brousch> We actually have crap for coffee except downtown
<brousch> Really good stuff there
<cmaloney> yeah, we have Biggby, Starbucks, and a few independent locations
<cmaloney> but all of the Caribou locations closed, as well as the businesses that tried to make a go of the old locations
<cmaloney> I think JoDee's been heading to Biggby just to keep the damn place open. :)
<brousch> Biggby and Tim Hortons are my usuals
<DrDaemonEye> Hmm... got Starbucks, Biggby, and Espresso Royale.
<DrDaemonEye> And a bunch of independent shops
<jrwren> brousch: you ordered beans and brewed at home?
<brousch> They also ground the beans
<jrwren> that is good, at least you have a consistent grind.
<cmaloney> home grinder FTW
<jrwren> home burr grinder FTW, so I can have medium for drip and coarse for french press.
<jrwren> brousch: Truch Stop Organics Big Big Roast is excellent and might be on meijer shelves near you.
<brousch> I think this roast is not as dark as I like it.
<brousch> It has more fruity/acid than I like
<brousch> Lenovo is trying to ride the rick_h_ effect: ThinkPad X1 Carbon Touch Ultrabook; Web price:$1,499.00; After Instant Savings: $899.40; You save: $599.60
<brousch> Weird, the version with WQHD touch screen is cheaper than those with no touch and crappier resolution http://shop.lenovo.com/smb/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon-2/
<brousch> $1079 for i7 and 8GB. That 128GB M.s SSD is the only bad part
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-30
<cmaloney> jcastro: Just bought tickets for Rush
<cmaloney> (for JoDee and I)
<jcastro> going to buy them when I get off the plane
<jcastro> thanks for the reminder
<jcastro> (slammed today trying to get on a plane in a few hours)
<cmaloney> Ugh
<cmaloney> I twas pretty painless actually
<jcastro> yeah but I am mid-basement installation
<jcastro> money is like, disappearing
<cmaloney> Oh, lovely
<brousch> cmaloney: Will you go in the mosh pit?
<cmaloney> brousch: You've obviously never been toa Rush show
<cmaloney> it's more like everyone either on their feet or relaxed like the guy in the Memorex commercials.
<brousch> A concert without a mosh pit? What is this, elevator music?
<cmaloney> Would have picked floor but JoDee couldn't see over most of the folks there
<cmaloney> avg. height is 6"
<cmaloney> Er, 6'
<cmaloney> We're not smurf
<cmaloney> s
<cmaloney> Sheehs, VIP Silver is $304 each.
<cmaloney> Is there some big Football contest this weekend?
<cmaloney> ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-31
<jrwren> https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com
<cmaloney> jrwren: Ugh
<cmaloney> Having to hit mod in order to have escape == no
<havenstance> greetings
<cmaloney> night
<greg-g> is just starting
<jayis> woohoo
<greg-g> I don't think we've met, jayis.
<jayis> no I dont think so
<jayis> hi
<greg-g> hi there, I'm Greg :) Used to live in Ann Arbor, now out in the bay area.
<greg-g> (worked for the UMich library as copyright nerd, then for Creative Commons, now for Wikimedia Foundation)
<jayis> I am jayis! student and recently employee at wayne state
<havenstance> hi Greg :)
<havenstance> hi jayis
<greg-g> hi there havenstance :)
<havenstance> how ya been man?
<greg-g> Things are decent, I should actually get off of IRC, but I just wanted to say hi :)
<havenstance> yeah I'm just getting folding at home setup, I'll be off soon myself,
<havenstance> morning
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/912/detail/
<cmaloney> Reminder we have our meeting tomorrow
<cmaloney> We'll be talking about the Global Jam coming up next weekend, and the release party in April
<cmaloney> Hope to see you there!
<jrwren> so many meeting invites.
<jrwren> yeah, I can't believe 15.04 is so close.
<havenstance> God I hate windows servers
<havenstance> well let me rephrase, I dislike 2012 server.
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> 2012 server is better than 2008, is better than 2003
<havenstance> jrwren yeah I don't mind it, just didn't realize I had to manually make DHCP and DNS Authorized in 2012 :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-01
<gamerchick02> how's everyone faring with the snow?
<jrwren> too scared to go try and shovel.
<jrwren> how about you?
<gamerchick02> i went out for a paper and coffee at 8-ish and it's gotten worse. i'm chillin like a villian in my apartment and will probably go out and make sure my car still runs this afternoon
<gamerchick02> i wish i'd brought my stupid work laptop home this weekend so i'd be prepared for something like this. ugh, i'm so dumb
<gamerchick02> i was smart and went grocery shopping friday night. :-P
<brousch> A paper?
<gamerchick02> newspaper
<gamerchick02> a publication that comes out daily or weekly with news in the form of print. usually has local and national news in it.
<gamerchick02> :-P
<gamerchick02> and comics.
<brousch> http://www.quickmeme.com/img/98/98b39b21ff008afaa5cba1e79fc611b2ddb64b3f44f57e792397c517768f4433.jpg
<gamerchick02> hee
<gamerchick02> at least i don't get it delivered!
<gamerchick02> :-P
<gamerchick02> for those of you that have a Keurig 2.0: http://boingboing.net/2015/02/01/free-freedom-clip-turns-of.html
<cmaloney> morn
<gamerchick02> howdy cmaloney
<cmaloney> We did our grocery shopping last night
<gamerchick02> smart
<cmaloney> so we had big breakfast and are now chillin'
<gamerchick02> i figured it was gonna be crazy-crazy at meijer yesterday so i bucked up and went Friday night after work.
<cmaloney> JoDee and I used to like to read the paper: http://image1.masterfile.com/getImage/846-02796722em-1950s-COUPLE-MAN-WOMAN-READING-NEWSPAPER---.jpg
<gamerchick02> hee!
<gamerchick02> do you have those awesome glasses?
<cmaloney> But the kids now and their Internet these days: http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY_5a19812u.jpg
<gamerchick02> and are you a dapper dan man?
<gamerchick02> LOL the screen so he can't see the TV. nice!
<gamerchick02> and to think we now have TVs that cover a wall
<cmaloney> So yeah, this morning we decided to have breakfast: https://thiswastv.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/lucy05.png
<gamerchick02> (i love the vintage photos. for real though.)
<gamerchick02> i might listen to my record player later.
<cmaloney> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/04/73/a3/0473a37a29c63d0ce188923d6a951366.jpg
<cmaloney> http://siarchives.si.edu/sites/default/files/blog-attached-images/14434749379_03c76f6e7c_z.jpg
<gamerchick02> exactly. though i don't have that awesome hair
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> you don't have a record player?
<cmaloney> I have one. It's in the closet
 * cmaloney is a digital man
 * gamerchick02 is too but i also like traditional media
<cmaloney> http://retrothing.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452989a69e2012876d29738970c-800wi
<cmaloney> http://www.vinmag.com/online/media/gbu0/prodlg/AP1695-technics-cd-player-1980s.jpg
<gamerchick02> for pure convenience i love digital but i like to have the options to pick up an older record and know that i can play it
<gamerchick02> is that a CD drive?
<cmaloney> They're all CD players
<gamerchick02> nice.
<gamerchick02> i don't have a portable cd player anymore
<cmaloney> "1980s cd player" in google
<cmaloney> of course you don't. You have a phone that is 10x capable
<gamerchick02> :)
<cmaloney> http://www.acquris.se/images/sony_d-50_portable_cd-player_9.jpg
<cmaloney> Why would you carry around a single-purpose device?
<gamerchick02> and an ipad and an ipod (but i'm not using the ipod much anymore since i got a 32gb microsd card for my phone.
<gamerchick02> )
<gamerchick02> sometimes the single purpose device does a good job (think a trusty timex watch that gives the time and date).
<cmaloney> My 5 disc changer is in storage at the moment
<gamerchick02> i've got a 6-disc changer in the car
<cmaloney> Yeah, I di like my 5 disc changer
<gamerchick02> i WISH i had a bluetooth adapter or an aux in for my my car so so so bad
<cmaloney> but http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNTk5/z/uBgAAOSwa39UvZAp/$_35.JPG
<cmaloney> That's the one I have
<cmaloney> Best player I've ever owned
<gamerchick02> that's your car radio?
<cmaloney> Sounds amazing
<cmaloney> Nah, that's a separate CD player for my stereo
<gamerchick02> oh cool
<gamerchick02> i have a sony three piece that i got in college. i love it.
<cmaloney> Problem is I have the Squeezebox now so I never use it
<gamerchick02> i can't do "loud" in my apartment lest i piss off my neighbors
<cmaloney> understood
<cmaloney> bbiab
<gamerchick02> how do you like the squeezebox?
<gamerchick02> ok!
<cmaloney> I <3 it
<cmaloney> Unfortunately Logitech discontinued the hardware, but you can still find them rather inexpensively
<cmaloney> and there are computer-based clients so you can play your library on your computer
<gamerchick02> ooo
<gamerchick02> so it's like a hard drive that streams to speakers?
<cmaloney> IN a sense
<cmaloney> it's a whole eco-system comparable to iTunes or Sonos
<gamerchick02> ah
<cmaloney> but with a heavier OSS component
<gamerchick02> itunes is evil
<cmaloney> the server / clients are OSS
<cmaloney> even the hardware models
<gamerchick02> nice
<cmaloney> It's a little clunky to get set up but once you have it set up it's quite nice
<cmaloney> so not something that I'd give my non-technically adept relatives but something that once they had some help setting up it works nicely.
<gamerchick02> hrm that sounds neat. i'd love to be able to stream my music on my computer to a set of speakers in my living room (my computer is in the second bedroom in my apartment)
<cmaloney> Supports internet radio
<gamerchick02> ooo
<cmaloney> and Pandora (with MySqueezebox, iirc)
<gamerchick02> i have so much to listen to it's insane
<cmaloney> http://www.linuxjournaldigital.com/linuxjournal/201209?pg=73#pg71
<cmaloney> I wrote an article for Linux Journal describing the Squeezebox
<gamerchick02> woo thanks
<cmaloney> np
<cmaloney> If you have any questions LMK (PM me, or email: craig@decafbad.net). I love to wax eloquent about the Squeezebox
<gamerchick02> hee. i might give it a go
<gamerchick02> or i might not. i'd love to get this kind of thing going in my mom's house
<cmaloney> It's great because I can listen to my stuff at work and JoDee can (and has) turned on the radio in the basement and listened to something else
<cmaloney> and I've used it for parties to play music
<gamerchick02> oooh yeah
<gamerchick02> yeah no disc switching!
<cmaloney> Yep
<cmaloney> Great for Wagnerian Opera
<gamerchick02> great for... anything really. hah
<cmaloney> There's also a Smart Mix plugin that I use for creating automatic playlists
<gamerchick02> that's only if your music is tagged properly *snerk*
<cmaloney> so i tell it what genere I want it to use and tweak a few parameters and it'll play my library
<gamerchick02> i'm working on that with Musicbrainz Picard
<cmaloney> I try to tag everything with Musicbrainz. :)
<gamerchick02> +1 to Musicbrainz
<cmaloney> But yeah, if I hear something I don't want to hear in my mix it's my own damn fault for having it on my drive
<gamerchick02> hee yes.
<cmaloney> (You can set it to use external sources, or your own library)
<gamerchick02> very nice!
<cmaloney> So I won't have to worry about someone thinking that Nickelback is Dath Metal
<gamerchick02> oh lordy. Nickelback is horrible
<cmaloney> It scratches an itch that I don't have nor care to ever explore.
<cmaloney> Works for some, not my taste
<gamerchick02> it's... boring
<gamerchick02> i dunno
<cmaloney> If I were a frustrated 12 year old who thought Axe cologne was awesome and needed some inspiration on how to be an asshole in my later years I think Nickelback would fit that itch
<cmaloney> but none of that is relevant to me
<cmaloney> I'm already the asshole I want to be.
<gamerchick02> you need that on a t-shirt
<gamerchick02> "I'm already the asshole I want to be."
<cmaloney> ;)
<gamerchick02> gonna restart to fix something brb
<gamerchick02> back
<jrwren> shovelling session #1 done.
<gamerchick02> success?
<jrwren> yes.
<gamerchick02> awesome. i'm going out later and i'll clean the car off and shovel behind it
<gamerchick02> i mean i'm not going out but i'll go out to clean the car off.
<gamerchick02> sorry i'm unclear. ahem
<cmaloney> Sadly I think I'm going to need to shovel soon
<cmaloney> unless a band of feral children happen by my house loooking for alms
<gamerchick02> HAH
<gamerchick02> good luck
<akelling> HOw much snow you guys get up in MI?
<gamerchick02> depends on location but Auburn Hills is due for 4 to 7 inches
<akelling> wow
<gamerchick02> south of 59 probably 6-10
<akelling> Woke up with 4 inchs here in Colorado. Was not expecting that.
<gamerchick02> south of 94, i think they said 9-12
<akelling> Thats some snow
<gamerchick02> yeah
<akelling> My dog was not ammused this morning to say the least
<gamerchick02> LOL
<gamerchick02> i can see it "yay outside"
<gamerchick02> "WAIT WHAT IS THIS?!?!?!?"
<akelling> lol that about how it went down.
<gamerchick02> :)
<akelling> blurry pic but here she is this morning. https://content-na.drive.amazonaws.com/cdproxy/templink/BxAVY3L6kxI5FW71hYBMK3K4c2Fiz-8MW6kqqKrchBULAYspN?viewBox=1366
<gamerchick02> :) cute dog!
<akelling> That she is.
<cmaloney> Alas, no feral children in the neighborhood
<cmaloney> So I'm going to need to shovel
<cmaloney> bah
<gamerchick02> at first glance that looked like "ferel chicken"
<gamerchick02> anyway, enjoy your shovelling!
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> If they know how to shovel I'll take it
<cmaloney> JoDee's making hot cocoa. It's all good
<gamerchick02> :) yay for cocoa!
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+CraigMaloney/posts/D1E9P2Lig75
<gamerchick02> what's it been named?
<cmaloney> Our winter storm
<cmaloney> apparently they went and named it
<gamerchick02> oh joy
<cmaloney> Well, my shoveling went *poof*
<gamerchick02> yeah, it's getting crazy out there
<gamerchick02> after rathole radio i'm going to see if i can clean off the car and clean behind it but if i can't get out tomorrow i'll call it in. this sucks.
<havenstance2> greetings from Pittsburgh everyone :)
<havenstance2> cmaloney I noticed they named that... I kinda chuckled didn't know we were naming storms now
<cmaloney> Yeah I think I'm working from home tomorrow
<cmaloney> Next door just fired up their snowblower
<gamerchick02> i forgot my computer
<gamerchick02> yay another day of no pay!!!
<gamerchick02> >_<
<gamerchick02> i hate hate hate missing work
<gamerchick02> i've actually set my alarm 45 minutes early so maybe i can make it in for normal time
<havenstance2> what's the weather like in MI today?
<havenstance2> I imagine its pretty bad looking out my window
<gamerchick02> it is
<gamerchick02> it's been snowing on and off. right now it's "on"
<gamerchick02> and the piles are getting deeper in front of my apartment building. not sure if i should get up at the arse-crack of dawn tomorrow or beg off, but i'm going to at least try to get in.
<havenstance2> yeah I moved to Pittsburgh, its been freezing rain here all day
<gamerchick02> *nods*
<gamerchick02> sorry about that. it's almost worse.
<havenstance2> worst part is nobody knows how to drive here...
<gamerchick02> ugh
<havenstance2> I thought Michigan had the worlds worst drivers, until I came to Pittsburgh
<gamerchick02> i'm debating. if i can't get out i'll text in. my boss is cool about that. i feel bad that i left my laptop at work though. i could at least get started at 7 if i had it with me...
<gamerchick02> Ohio. my ex is a shit driver
<havenstance2> I'll hand that to you too Ohio is pretty bad
<havenstance2> worst part about Pittsburgh is you get Ohio, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia drivers all in one place
<gamerchick02> oh no!
<havenstance2> its not a normal day if I don't get cut off at least 5 times on the way to work.... and I'm not talking the car merge in front of you, I'm talking they start when they are only half way passed your car
<gamerchick02> good god
<havenstance2> forcing you to lock up the breaks or hit the edge of the road
<gamerchick02> time to invest in that hummer you always dreamed of
<havenstance2> im thinking of buying a F350 and putting a brush guard on it :)
<gamerchick02> hah!
<gamerchick02> get a Ram 4500
<gamerchick02> dualie.
<gamerchick02> that'll stop em.
<havenstance2> yeah lol, unfortunately the Ram's transmissions aren't the most reliable in the world.
<havenstance2> dodge usually stands beside them though so I'll give them that
<gamerchick02> they're much better than they were
<havenstance2> fair argument, I'd actually consider buying a dodge today
<havenstance2> friend of mine had one of the BAD ones....
<gamerchick02> (i work at Chrysler so i might be biased)
<havenstance2> :)
<havenstance2> understandable
<gamerchick02> BUT i do know they've been working super hard on the quality
<havenstance2> one thing I'll hand Chrysler though, when those transmissions go bad now, they have been helping replace them
<havenstance2> even the old ones, my buddy had a 2006 dodge ram, lost the transmission because a mounting bolt failed.
<havenstance2> Chrysler replaced it for him
<gamerchick02> ooo
<havenstance2> I was impressed
<gamerchick02> good on Chrysler!
<gamerchick02> good luck getting that out of GM
<gamerchick02> hah
<havenstance2> Dealership discovered it was a broken bolt that they had supposidly replaced once before.... so they gave him a new trans, I'd bet it was rebuilt but even still
<havenstance2> it worked and he didn't have to pay for it, i was exteremely impressed.
<gamerchick02> yeah, they usually will replace with rebuilt in an old truck.
<havenstance2> I have been contemplating buying a Dodge Charger tho :)
<gamerchick02> i'm proud they're staying by their work. even if it was crap before.
<gamerchick02> i think that's RWD. not good in this snow
<havenstance2> yeah, sand tubes help with that though
<havenstance2> I was born and raised by Traverse City, Michigan
<havenstance2> so snow is nothing new to me, but its like people out here don't understand anything about it
<havenstance2> and 3-4 inches, is a major deal apparently
<gamerchick02> 3-4 inches is nothing round here
<havenstance2> lol I don't even panic up north until I hear 2-4 feet :)
<gamerchick02> well in the metro detroit area they can't handle 6 much less anything related to feet.
<gamerchick02> i'm hoping things will be cleaned up tomorrow afternoon but that might be a pipe dream.
<gamerchick02> ugh
<havenstance2> town i lived in was in the snowbelt
<havenstance2> wasn't uncommon to wake up to a foot of fresh snow
<havenstance2> 3-4 inches was almost daily though
<gamerchick02> well i don't have 4WD so i may not be leaving tomorrow.
<havenstance2> home depot sells sand tubes
<havenstance2> put 6 of them in your trunk in the winter, and it helps alot with the snow
<gamerchick02> i don't have a truck. i have a Mazda 3
<havenstance2> it wont cure all your RWD Woes, but it does help quite a bit :)
<gamerchick02> hah yeah, it will!
<havenstance2> I did it with a Lincoln Towncar :)
<gamerchick02> also kitty litter
<havenstance2> yeah Kitty Litter works too
<havenstance2> but the sand tubes are easier to manage
<gamerchick02> yeah
<havenstance2> easier to store in the summer time
<havenstance2> Mazda 3 though, you could probably get away with 2-3 sand bags, iirc those aren't very heavy cars
<gamerchick02> true!
<havenstance2> I'd just put em in the trunk around the Spare Tire Compartment :)
<gamerchick02> my car is FWD. i'm usually ok as long as the snow is lower than the clearance on my car
<havenstance2> yeah, you have a foot of snow on the ground yet?
<gamerchick02> i don't think so. not yet.
<gamerchick02> 6 inches probably but it's been blowing around.
<gamerchick02> depends on where you measure it. :-P
<havenstance2> typically with a FWD anything, usually around a foot of snow can cause problems
<havenstance2> especially when it drifts
<gamerchick02> yeah
<havenstance2> I have a Cavalier and a Malibu Maxx
<havenstance2> the Cavalier was my favorite car for the winter
<gamerchick02> :)
<havenstance2> the Mailbu is surprisingly okay in the snow
<havenstance2> but that cavalier I only ever got it stuck once so I don't know how much snow exactly was its nemesis but a 3 foot drift buried it :)
<havenstance2> all you could see was the back half the car sticking out LOL
<gamerchick02> i've never gotten stuck with the MAzda.
<gamerchick02> no i take that back
<gamerchick02> i was stuck in the lot because of the ice. i couldn't get any grip to get out of my spot
<havenstance2> that's understandable, I'm learning here when they say freezing rain, they mean it
<gamerchick02> yeah. i prefer snow to freezing rain.
<havenstance2> these mountain roads are flat scary in the mornings after Freezing Rain
<gamerchick02> geez
<havenstance2> now the snow, I do fine in, in fact 3 inches of snow I'm heading to work getting looks from plow drivers like I'm nuts
<havenstance2> they plow here with pickups basically, and salt with converted trash trucks
<gamerchick02> :) we'll see if i can get out tomorrow.
<gamerchick02> it's times like that when i wish i had a 4WD Jeep
<havenstance2> I think you should be fine :)
<havenstance2> I'd buy one just to keep in the yard lol
<gamerchick02> lol!
<gamerchick02> jeeps are cool
<gamerchick02> shit gas mileage but cool
<havenstance2> newer jeeps get between 20-25mpg
<havenstance2> not great, but not bad for a jeep
<havenstance2> considering some of the older ones you were lucky to see 10 LOL
<gamerchick02> i get 25/30 in the Mazda. got 36/40 in the Saturn (granted it had a shit engine in it and the quality was crap. but good gas mileage)
<havenstance2> yeah, I get about 29 in the malibu
<havenstance2> I got over 30 in the cavalier though
<havenstance2> was pretty close to the saturn
<gamerchick02> they were the same car after saturn merged totally with GM
<havenstance2> I came through Detroit last weekend, hit Telegraph Ave on 75 at 5:02pm
<havenstance2> took almost 3 hours to get from Telegraph to Royal Oak...
<gamerchick02> like i said though, quality was crap. engine mounts rattled off pretty much every two years.
<gamerchick02> ugh. three hours. welcome to rush hour
<havenstance2> yeah that Cavalier was the same way, I eventually put a lock washer and 2 nuts on it to hold it
<gamerchick02> that would work!
<havenstance2> Wayze said there was an accident up by 8 mile but when I got there all I saw was a car going on a flat bed
<havenstance2> anyway, off to the Super Bowl party, have a good night :)
<gamerchick02> ok have fun!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-01
<cmaloney> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/43ls7j/no_post_after_rm_rf_systemd_uefi/
<mrgoodcat> anybody here use taiga.io?
<ColonelPanic001> never heard of it
<cmaloney> mroning
<cmaloney> I've used it and I wish we could use it at work
<cmaloney> (was re: taiga.io)
<mrgoodcat> yea
<mrgoodcat> ?
<mrgoodcat> i was thinking about giving it a crack
<cmaloney> It's pretty cool, but it's more for coders than for end users.
<cmaloney> that's part of why we're sticking with redmine
<jrwren> ah redmine! i forgot about redmine
<cmaloney> Taiga is pretty easy to install (throw it in a container)and play with.
<mrgoodcat> "more for coders than end users"
<mrgoodcat> that's a selling point imo
<mrgoodcat> it would be for purely internal products
<mrgoodcat> so i'm not worried about clients
<mrgoodcat> which is what i assume you mean by end users
<cmaloney> Right
<jrwren> ugh, just realized kalamazoo x is same weekend as penguicon. I know which one I'm going to. :)
<elswick> kzoo x is only one day..... do both
<cmaloney> jrwren: I think you're going to Penguicon because it's a better deal. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: ha!
<cmaloney> Think about it
<cmaloney> One day: Drink at bar with other Ubuntu folks
<cmaloney> Another day Learn something new about something you were only mindly curious about
<jrwren> ah, is release party there?
<cmaloney> Yep
<jrwren> in that case, I'm hosting a south west michigan ubuntu release party along with kalx :)
<cmaloney> Bah
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KABcmczPdg
<cmaloney> That moment when you realize it's been 5 years since the release of something you thought was released later on
<cmaloney> http://www.lib.umich.edu/blogs/eaten-grue/frogger-board-game
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-02
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-03
<shakes808> Good evening all.   I want to know what I should use for a network share between Ubuntu Server and Windows?  It looks like Samba is the defacto, is this correct?
<jrwren> shakes808: yes.
<shakes808> Thank you :)
<shakes808> I will install it.
<jrwren> its pretty great.
<cmaloney> Samba is pretty much the protocol for anything Windows
<shakes808> When setting up the samba, I am trying to get it so that I can access the user's home directory for the specified user logging into the folder.
<shakes808> either my google-foo isn't the greatest or searching the wrong things
<jrwren> shakes808: yes, use the smbpasswd command to set the smb password for that user
<shakes808> jrwren: thank you, will search for that.  That hasn't come up in my google searches or youtube results
<jrwren> shakes808: and [homes] is a special share in samba, just have it in samba
<jrwren> it will automatically share a homedir with same name as user.
<jrwren> so \\server\jrwren in jrwren's homedir samba will ask for auth, windows will show a prompt, and I'll type in teh password set for jrwren with smbpasswd
<shakes808> gotcha, let me try this out :)   thank you
<shakes808> jrwren: I added me and it won't let me because it is mapped to a different user.  I am SSH'd into my server and it should be name@server: correct?  and when I go to log into the share it should be \\IPADDRESS\user\home and log in with name@server
<jrwren> no \user there.
<jrwren> just \\ipaddress\username
<jrwren> and login with name & password, no @server
<shakes808> when i try to do that it puts my COMPUTER_NAME\user and gives me access denied
<jrwren> you sure you set the password for that user using smbpasswd ?
<shakes808> My Ubuntu Server doesn't have a domainname, that could be it
<shakes808> yes
<jrwren> do you have `security = user` and `encrypt passwords = true`   in your smb.conf ?
<shakes808> let me check
<jrwren> those should be ubuntu default, but honestly, my smb.conf is 10yrs old (or more)
<shakes808> I do not have
<shakes808> 'security = user' any where in the conf file
<jrwren> add those to the [global] section
<shakes808> and as for encrypt
<shakes808> i have the following
<jrwren> then again, they might be defaults and I just have explicit, but this is what has always worked for me.
<shakes808> unix password sync = yes
<shakes808> I can add them
<jrwren> you can ignore that for now.
<jrwren> security=user is default, so probably save to skip that.
<jrwren> bah, default is encrypt passwords = yes
<jrwren> so honestly, it should work.
<jrwren> you can test with smbclient on linux cmdline
<shakes808> how can i test that from my windows machine?
<jrwren> you don't, test the username and password over samba from the linux machine itself
<jrwren> smbclient //servername/user -U user
<jrwren> and type password when prompted
<jrwren> it will test that the smbpasswd is set correctly
<jrwren> user is not root, right?
<shakes808> correct
<shakes808> i got into it that way
<shakes808> i am in the smb: \>
<shakes808> just can't map the drive out on my windows machine ;(
<jrwren> ok, then its something windows side.
<jrwren> what windows version is it?
<shakes808> 8.1
<jrwren> and what samba version ?
<shakes808> samba --version says: Version 4.1.6-Ubuntu
<jrwren> what is that? trusty version? 14.04?
<shakes808> Correct, LTS
<shakes808> Just set up the server last weekend, and Samba in the last few hours
<jrwren> hrm, so I used to use samba3 and so my windows clients all had digital signing off
<jrwren> but apparently samba 4 supports that now, so now I really don't know.
<jrwren> ah, but default is disabled.
<jrwren> you could try setting `server signing = auto` in the global section
<shakes808> does it matter where or should it go in a specific spot?
<jrwren> no anywhere in the [global] section. i guess you may not be familiar with ini format files?
<jrwren> so, after [global] but before any other line that starts with [
<shakes808> getting used to them.  I need / want to get back into OSS things
<shakes808> that is why the attempt to set up the dev box as a UBUNTU and try to admin it ;)
<shakes808> Nope :(
<shakes808> Do I need to do anything to my host file on my WINDOWS machine?
<shakes808> jrwren: Thank you for you assistance tonight.  I am going to bed.  I'll ask some of my buddy's at work to see if they have run across anything like this.
<shakes808> good night
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-04
<cmaloney> greets
<Zimdale> groots
<hpucks> ello
<mrgoodcat> govna
<mrgoodcat> sry i didn't make chc tonight
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: THat's OK. WE only put it on your permanent record
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<mrgoodcat> who was it that came last week?
<cmaloney> I came
<cmaloney> Rick and Matt were here
<cmaloney> and now it's just me
<mrgoodcat> i was wondering who the guy sitting next to me was
<mrgoodcat> github posted a postmortem of the downtime we were experiencing and I thought he might be interested
<Zimdale> Is that the downtime the other night?
<Zimdale> Where it was down for a good 2-4 hours
<mrgoodcat> 2 hours and 6 minutes
<mrgoodcat> last wednesday night
<Zimdale> What caused it becuase it fucked up my night
<mrgoodcat> https://github.com/blog/2106-january-28th-incident-report
<mrgoodcat> power failure
<Zimdale> ah
<mrgoodcat> and some unexptected cascading failures due to a firmware bug in a certain model of server
<mrgoodcat> then their services weren't coming back up because the startup scripts depended on redis being up
<mrgoodcat> but the scripts were supposed to be starting redis
<Zimdale> ha
<cmaloney> Ah, the ol' single point of failure bug
<Zimdale> It's a hard bug to prevent
<mrgoodcat> it's interesting how so many things went wrong though
<Zimdale> That's usually how it works
<Zimdale> everything has to go wrong at once to bring down the world, otherwise nobody notices it
<mrgoodcat> power failure, some servers did not recognize their drives after a power cycle, the startup scripts depended on the things they were starting, the frontend servers didn't properly recognize that the backend services were down, and the team chat services were down because they were on the same servers as the github backend (which was difficult to troubleshoot in a coordinated manner without chat)
<mrgoodcat> thats a LOT of things all at once
<Zimdale> bad day for the github employees
<mrgoodcat> yea
<mrgoodcat> i've seen a few failures but nothing on that scale
<mrgoodcat> obviously by scale i don't mean number of users
<mrgoodcat> well that too
<mrgoodcat> but
<mrgoodcat> i have yet to have that hellish failure where services aren't coming back up and people are trying to use them and hardware is failing and and and and and
<Zimdale> Least it's not as bad as when us-east went down on aws, that was a blast
<mrgoodcat> heh
<mrgoodcat> nobody ever got fired for going with -ibm- amazon
<Zimdale> ibm amazon?
<mrgoodcat> was meant to be a strikethrough
<mrgoodcat> nobody has ever gotten fired for going with ibm
<mrgoodcat> you've never heard anybody say that?
<Zimdale> nope
<Zimdale> I feel like most should get fired for going with IBM >.>
<mrgoodcat> heh
<mrgoodcat> well not at the time that saying became popular
<Zimdale> I probably didn't exist when that saying was popular
<Zimdale> like in the 80s?
<mrgoodcat> one of my dad's friends is a regional sales manager for cisco and he was the first person to let me in on that saying
<mrgoodcat> its ok i didn't exist either
<mrgoodcat> its a story for old men
<mrgoodcat> i bet cmaloney has heard it
<mrgoodcat> no offense meant to cmaloney of course
<mrgoodcat> IBM is also the originating force behind the FUD acronym
<Zimdale> FUD?
<mrgoodcat> gene amdahl coined the phrase after leaving ibm
<mrgoodcat> fear uncertainty and doubt
<mrgoodcat> as in "microsoft is spreading FUD about linux and open source projects in order to promote its own interests"
<Zimdale> ah
<cmaloney> I haven't heard them put Amazon in there
<cmaloney> but I've heard the IBM thing
<mrgoodcat> "FUD is the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that IBM sales people instill in the minds of potential customers who might be considering Amdahl products." -Gene Amdahl 1975
<cmaloney> in anecdotes
<cmaloney> I'm not that fucking old. :)
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> i'm 23 so old is >25
<cmaloney> Oh, how I shall disabuse you of that notion
<mrgoodcat> another of my favorites is "youth and speed are no match for old age and treachery"
<Zimdale> Aren't you like 50 cmaloney?
<cmaloney> No. I'm not that old
<cmaloney> I was born in the 1970s
<cmaloney> same year that Rush formed.
<cmaloney> Er, no... scratch that
<cmaloney> They formed in 1968
<cmaloney> But the official first group was the year I was born
<cmaloney> Rutsey, Lifeson, and Lee
<Zimdale> I was born when the simpsons started
<jrwren> babies!!!
<jrwren> 'cept cmaloney
<cmaloney> So was my sister-in-law
<jrwren> cmaloney is a proper age
<cmaloney> That's right
<cmaloney> proper-like
<cmaloney> Fetch me my proper slippers and my proper glass of port
<jrwren> oooooh! I do like port.
<cmaloney> You may have port as well
<cmaloney> proper-like
<jrwren> that is the wierd thing about getting old... is all these young adults running around :p
<cmaloney> heh
<Zimdale> Depends on the port and if it's aerated
<cmaloney> Dow's Ruby Red Porto
<cmaloney> accept no inferior substitutes
<Zimdale> I definitely lean towards cabernet over port
<cmaloney> I prefer Merlots and Shiraz
<cmaloney> but Cabernet is OK
<jrwren> couldn't you make port with cab?
<Zimdale> No idea
<Zimdale> don't know THAT much about wine, must come with age
<Zimdale> ;)
<_stink_> zing!
<jrwren> port is wine fortified with brandy
<mrgoodcat> and yes you can make port with cab
<mrgoodcat> shiraz is best wine
<Zimdale> I like catawba grape wine but they are hard to find =(
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h__> party
<cmaloney> How are things on the not-here part of the world?
<rick_h__> good, chilly here in Rome
<cmaloney> What's the temps?
<cmaloney> Current conditions at Detroit City Airport, MI (KDET)
<cmaloney> Last updated Feb 04, 2016 - 07:53 AM EST / 2016.02.04 1253 UTC
<rick_h__> but had a nice photo tour this morning and resting my tired feets
<cmaloney>    Temperature: 32.0 F (0.0 C)
<cmaloney>    Relative Humidity: 72%
<cmaloney>    Wind: from the W (270 degrees) at 5 MPH (4 KT)
<cmaloney>    Sky conditions: overcast
<cmaloney>    Precipitation last hour: A trace
<cmaloney> Awesome
<cmaloney> looking forward to seeing hte results. :)
<rick_h__> so it's 50ish with 20-30mph winds
<rick_h__> but only brought a rain coat because don't need muh of a coat above 40 imo
<cmaloney> That's not too bad
<cmaloney> Ah, that's no fun
<rick_h__> but the wind made it chilly at times where I wish I'd had a hat
<rick_h__> bald heads != insulation :)_
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> I'm starting to realize that.
<cmaloney> I really wish the Ubuntu tablet wasn't named Aquarius
<cmaloney> for probably the dumbest reason imaginable
<cmaloney> Mattel had an ill-fated computer called the Aquarius
<cmaloney> it was under-powered, incompatible with their console, and was widely considered a flop
<cmaloney> again, dumb reason, but that's where my head went
<hpucks> huh.  that's interesting.  are they actually producing hardware or just a tablet build?
<hpucks> This is relevant to my interests since I run Ubuntu on a Surface Pro 3.
<cmaloney> I think they're contracting it out but don't have the details
<hpucks> ah
<cmaloney> Taht said I'd be quite surprised if Canonical had enough $$ to fund building a tablet / production from scratch
<jrwren> afaik that is all BQ
<greg-g> BQ?
<cmaloney> BBQ
<greg-g> Burger Queen?
<cmaloney> It's part of the OMGWTFBBQ alliance
<jrwren> greg-g: http://www.bq.com/es/ubuntu.html
<greg-g> gotcha
<cmaloney> "We are BQ"
<cmaloney> Well, that clears things up
<cmaloney> http://www.bq.com/uk/corporate-info
<cmaloney> Can't tell if official site or Onion
<jrwren> lol
<cmaloney> Seriously, someone got the "show some attitude" knob and ratcheted it to absurdity
<jrwren> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mundo_Reader
<jrwren> so in the US, i equate them to those $30 cody CVS tablets
<cmaloney> That's... not a ringing endorsement. :)
<jrwren> exactly
<cmaloney> I'll just be happy if I see an Ubuntu device in my lifetime that isn't in the hands of a Canonical employee
<jrwren> cmaloney: me too
<cmaloney> Like seeing an Apple Lisa in the wild with Twiggy Drives
<cmaloney> boy can dream
<jrwren> i remember when a buddy found a room full of lisa's in a closet at OU. It was 2002 or 2003
<cmaloney> Daaaaamn
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> most of them booted.
<cmaloney> I don't think I could have stopped hyperventilating
<jrwren> he was VERY excited.
<jrwren> i said, "Waht is a lisa?"
<jrwren> I had no idea.
<jrwren> once I understood what they were, I was in awe
<cmaloney> Yeah, its one of the holy grails of computing
<cmaloney> A Macintosh without Steve Jobs
<jrwren> apple was so different then. ipod has just come out, there was no music store. The story was to rip it yourself.
<jrwren> so the apple fables weren't popular back then.
<jrwren> no one knew ipod was going to be huge, even a year after its launch
<cmaloney> I like to think I knew
<cmaloney> but I was softer on Apple back then
<jrwren> i hated apple back then.
<jrwren> they had no good products IMO
<jrwren> OSX was still pretty bad. they still shipped OS9
<cmaloney> But once Apple started with the whole "Thermonuclear war" which hearkened back to the "look and feel" lawsuits I knew it was time to move on
<jrwren> wait, what?
<greg-g> <    jrwren> so in the US, i equate them to those $30 cody CVS tablets
<greg-g> but their photos are soooo sexy/porn like!
<cmaloney> jrwren: The whole "we'll kill android with patents"
<jrwren> greg-g: they are more beautiful devices and maybe that is too harsh, but they don't make any higher end models :(
<greg-g> seriously, some hardware photos, especially phones, look way too much like they were porn inspired
<jrwren> cmaloney: i didn't know that was ever a thing, nor did I knwo there was ever a patent lawsuit between android and apple
<cmaloney> greg-g: They are
<greg-g> "be sure to get the low angle crotch, I mean usb port shot!"
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, Apple flipped my "you are evil" bit with that.
<cmaloney> I kind of forgave the look and feel lawsuits of old but that just put them into the "never consider for personal stuff" list.
<jrwren> cmaloney: so how do you feel about ubuntu's aggressive control of its trademark? :]
<cmaloney> Trademarks are one thing
<cmaloney> I think the whole "use it or lose it" thing is ridiculous
<cmaloney> So I get why they're doing it
<cmaloney> Honestly I think the whole thing needs some reform
 * greg-g looks in, see's a troll, backs away
<cmaloney> greg-g: Join the party. :)
<greg-g> :) :)
<cmaloney> But yeah, trademark law is insane
<cmaloney> I find "intellectual property" (trademark, copyright, patent) infuriating.
<cmaloney> And I find Disney at the heart of why the system is so completely broken
<cmaloney> I have no love for Disney anymore.
<jrwren> +1
<jrwren> I never did.
<jrwren> I'm of the free Mickey crowd.
<jrwren> the sad part is that a majority of the population is so brainwashed they cannot see that its a removal of liberty.
<jrwren> they don't even understand it is liberty that they have given up.
<jrwren> that part is scary to me
<cmaloney> Yeah, completely
<cmaloney> that part is the most infuriating to me
<cmaloney> "We're letting one company own our culture. Wake up!"
<jrwren> *nod*
<greg-g> now I have RATM in my head
<greg-g> thank you cmaloney
<cmaloney> That was completely unintentional
 * cmaloney is not a RATM fan
<jrwren> hahaha, twitter is down!!! this is 2007 all over again!
<greg-g> jrwren: loaded for me
<jrwren> greg-g: downforeveryone says its not just me.
<greg-g> Looks like itâs just you. http://twitter.com/ seems to be UP.
<jrwren> sure NOW it says that.
<jrwren> 4min ago, not so much :p
<greg-g> :P
<greg-g> pics or it didn't happen
<jrwren> sheesh!
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> http://downdetector.com/status/twitter
<mrgoodcat> Problems at Twitter
<mrgoodcat> a few hundred reports in the last hour at downdetector
<greg-g> I don't normally share these things, but, this made me literal lol for longer than I care to admit: http://trumpdonald.org/
<greg-g> I mean, just play with it, it's great
<jrwren> greg-g: lolling
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-05
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h__> party
<cmaloney> rick_h__: Still in Rome?
<cmaloney> Doing as the Romans
<rick_h__> yea, will here until next thurs
<cmaloney> Cool
<jrwren> thurs!? why you get to leave early?  :]
<rick_h__> because I promised my family I'd not be away for 3 straight weekends :P
<cmaloney> Good promise.
<jrwren> YAY!
<rick_h__> and so the team can rant about me when I leave all day friday
<rick_h__> :P
<cmaloney> Heh
<jrwren> no... never...
<cmaloney> That's just an added side effect.
<cmaloney> like gravy
<rick_h__> hah
<brousch> Are remote presence tools so bad that you have to meet in person so frequently?
<rick_h__> heh, just when you're in charge of more teams there's more people meeting more often
<greg-g> ipads on a stick on a roomba for everyone!
<greg-g> each person gets one in your home, so everyone can stand behind your back and watch you work
<cmaloney> jrwren: https://www.etsy.com/shop/RetroConnector?ref=listing-shop-header-item-count
<cmaloney> most notably the Apple //e, ///, and Lisa cases
<cmaloney> And the Apple ][ disk drive Blue-Ray / DVD Drive
<jrwren> oh man, cool
<jrwren> that is not what I remember apple /// looking like
<jrwren> my dad found an apple /// on the side of the road, brought it home and it worked, lol
<cmaloney> Lucky
<jrwren> sure, but almost no media IIRC
<jrwren> it booted to basic
<cmaloney> It was kind of a garbage design but so iconic
<jrwren> but the basic was diff enough from 800xl that I knew that I couldn't do much with it.
<jrwren> i was around 8yo
<cmaloney> He fdound an Apple /// on the side of the road in the 1980s?
<cmaloney> I've heard everything now.
<cmaloney> That's hilarious.
<jrwren> I think so, yes.
<jrwren> I thnk it was '86
<jrwren> because we got amiga in '87
<jrwren> maybe my dad was lying and he actually bought it from a coworker or soemthing
<jrwren> but the display did look messed up like it fell off a car or something.
<cmaloney> Probably from someone trying to drop the thing the required 3 inches to reseat the chips.
<jrwren> ha!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-06
<shakes808> Morning everyone.  I am redoing my server and want to know what "Publishing applications" is in the software to install section.
<dzho> shakes808: on 14.04, I think that would be  agave, font-manager, fontforge, gimp, gimp-data-extras, gimp-gap, gimp-plugin-registry, gimp-ufraw, musescore, openclipart-svg, scribus
<dzho> which are the recommends from ubuntustudio-publishing
<dzho> this is based on tasksel
<shakes808> dzho: Thank you.  I actually just got that same answer in the ubuntu server chat.  Was just about to echo back in here.
<dzho> cool
<shakes808> this is what they sent me: http://packages.ubuntu.com/wily/ubuntustudio-publishing
<dzho> yeah.
<dzho> the way I dug that up was to install tasksel, and then
<dzho> tasksel --list-tasks
<dzho> and I saw the package, and so did
<shakes808> after my install finishes, I will try that
<dzho> apt-cache show ubuntustudio-publishing
<dzho> in general, if in doubt, leave it out, because you can always install it later
<dzho> for values of "always" that assume you have a decent network connection
<shakes808> yeah, that is what one of the other people said :)
<dzho> \o/
<dzho> we don't aspire to hivemind, but sometimes it happens :-)
<dzho> it's interesting they don't include dia in there
<dzho> and musescore is a funny choice for publishing in general, since it's specifically about music notation
<dzho> fits in a "music studio" sense but less so in a "graphic design studio" sense
<dzho> oh, another big one missing!
<dzho> inkscape!
<shakes808> haha
<dzho> apt-get install gimp scribus inkscape dia
 * dzho may look into what those other packages offer at some point
<shakes808> hmmm.  install finished and now it won't boot  :(
<dzho> :(
<shakes808> i can get into the bios
<dzho> is it in fact a bios machine or is an efi machine?
<dzho> how new, etc
<shakes808> the computer is an old DELL 330.  I had Ubuntu 14.04 LTS on this which I just upgraded from the last LTS.  I think something happened to it, because my user wasn't part of sudoer and I couldn't get into ROOT.  So I just went ahead and installed 15.10 on it.  and not it gets past the initial DELL boot screen but then blank.
<shakes808> I tried to SSH into it and nothing as well.
<shakes808>  :(
<shakes808> maybe too old for 15.10?
<shakes808> seeing if the usb boots up
<shakes808> yes :(
<dzho> optiplex 330
<dzho> with intel core 2 duo
<dzho> if that's it, shouldn't be a problem
<dzho> the only age-related problem I know about with regard to hardware has been with machines that didn't support PAE well
<dzho> and that has to do with hardware much older than core 2
<shakes808> right?! That is what I thought.  :( going to reinstall it
<shakes808> i am thinking that 15.10 can't be run on my hardware.  going back to 14.04
<shakes808> 14.04 works :) just need to get everything else updated.  thank you for your assistance today dzho
<dzho> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-07
<tony-smlr> we are live in the new Studio: SMLR E179/180 (2/7/2016) Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC5utlOYLEo Audio: http://www.podcastdetroit.com/event/sunday-morning-linux-review/
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> https://linuxcontainers.org/lxcfs/manpages//man1/lxcfs.1.html
<rick_h___> party
<cmaloney> We having fun yet?
<rick_h___> always!
<rick_h___> home made pasta dinner ftw
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-30
<cmaloney> morning
<shakes808> morning
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2017/01/30/open-metalcast-episode-147-salt-the-earth/
<Dekkard> its all aboot the Mahtay
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-31
<shakes808> morning
<cmaloney> ahoy
<widox> morning
<rick_h> jrwren: yea sorry, was jumping on the post more than yourself
<jrwren> oh, the post was definiting making some better way suggestions... adn it DOES have a point.
<jrwren> my comment was largely sparked by some folks I know who buy lots of books and don't read them and then complain they have no money while they have tens of thousands of dollars in unread books on their shelves. I'm not exagerating.
<rick_h> heh
<rick_h> the library is definitely an underutilized resource these days for sure
 * rick_h is guilty of that though my wife is good about it which makes me happy
<jrwren> rick_h: does clarkston have a library, or do you get to use orion twp?
<rick_h> jrwren: clarkston has one
<jrwren> clarkston probably built a nice new one since I was a kid. Most of the surrounding cities did in the 90s
<rick_h> my wife takes the boy every couple of weeks ot get a stack of libary books and to play the games on the computers there
<cmaloney> jrwren: Shut up about my library
 * cmaloney dusts the shelves
<rick_h> In 1965, the Womenâs club transferred the library to the authority of Independence Township. The Library was officially established under Act 269, the School Code of 1955, making the Library a Township Department governed by the Independence Township Board.
<rick_h> so a bit before the 90's it looks like
<cmaloney> I've been working to not buy so many books and instead find out if the library has it so they can store it instead.
<jrwren> oh wow, so it is the same old 80s library I remember from when I was a kid?
<jrwren> err, 60s library that I remember from the 80s. lol
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, looking at the history doc it was started in the 60s and expanded several times
<rick_h> jrwren: with a big $2M expansion in the late 80s
<cmaloney> <3
<jrwren> cmaloney: i have the crap dusty shelves too. I should probably do something about it.
<jrwren> but hten I also think about some of my favorite fiction and as the kid gets older I want her to be able to grab those books off the shelf.
<jrwren> but maybe in another 10yrs I'll clear the shelves.
<rick_h> heh, I'm waiting for my son to get reading more textual books so I can get him a kindle
 * rick_h has pared down the books on shelves waaaay down
<rick_h> and with audible/kindle I don't think I've more than a dozen books on the shelves in the last 2-3 years
<jrwren> ha! yeah!
<jrwren> sometimes i wish I were a digital reading person, but I am not.
<cmaloney> I vascillate betweehn digital / print
<rick_h> I wish I wasn't, but every time I travel or go camping, or finish a book while in the car somewhere I am glad
<rick_h> The "idea" of the physical book is attractive, but the practicalities just get in the way.
<rick_h> I'm just "whatever works to keep folks reading"
<rick_h> my son's got stacks of books taller than he is lol
<rick_h> have to find a good box to save them in for his own kids one day maybe
<cmaloney> rick_h: You're well on the way of the whole "living out of a knapsack" efficiency curve. ;)
<rick_h> wish I had more of that
<rick_h> cmaloney: working on it, will go to ghent next week with my tortuga backpack and that's it
<jrwren> you are probably right. My issue is, I'm too damn lazy to get organized enough to have an e-library that I want to read.
<cmaloney> Ye gods. :)
<cmaloney> The biggest problem I have with digital is the silly DRM nonsense
<jrwren> that too.
<rick_h> heh, see something good, search it in google, click the AMZ link, click if I want to listen or read it and have it delivered to my device
<cmaloney> Sorry, but I don't want to have to re-buy digital products if your business model goes belly up.
<rick_h> 60s later start listening/reading to it
<rick_h> yea, that's the part that will one day bite me I'm sure
<rick_h> it did with music
<jrwren> i've still got some cassette. :p
<cmaloney> That and RPG books are letter-sized and unless I get used to zoom / scroll they tend to be suboptimal to read
<cmaloney> plus I like books on a shelf
<rick_h> jrwren: lol we moved the entertainment center and my wife wants to know what's on a couple of VHS tapes that were in the back there
<jrwren> ha!
<rick_h> "if this has got cute video of you as a kid I'm digitizing it!!!"
<cmaloney> rick_h: Oh god
<rick_h> was about how the threat went
<jrwren> hahahaha. I wonder if we have any VHS still. We DO have a player.
<cmaloney> I have a bulk eraser if you want to borrow it
<rick_h> do you? don't tell my wife
<jrwren> but I do not think we have any tapes
<rick_h> we've not had one in forever
<jrwren> the player is sitting here on basement shelf. it hasn't been plugged in since we moved. lol
<cmaloney> My dad has a VHS / DVD burner. I can burn discs if you want
<jrwren> seems like as much as I try to purge old stuff, some things just stick around.
<cmaloney> Did that with the "Stella at 20" tapes that I have before they released them online
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-01
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> snowy morning
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Hoping I don't have to go out and shovel
<cmaloney> Go to work, sunlight.
<rick_h> yea, I thought I was done last night
<rick_h> looked like it had stopped, but had another couple of inches of fluffy stuff this AM
<rick_h> so had to do a 3rd pass
<cmaloney> lovely
<shakes808> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-02
<shakes808> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> off to an interview
<jrwren> gl hf
<cmaloney> thanks. it is in california
<jrwren> bad luck, have fun.
<cmaloney> so day-trip to get there, friday jnterview, and saturday head back
<cmaloney> working from home. ;)
<rick_h> cmaloney: you flying out for an interview?
<rick_h> cmaloney: that's fun, enjoy the weather!
<cmaloney> thanks. ;)
<cmaloney> yeah, out in mountain view
<rick_h> good luck!
<cmaloney> unfortunately the flight is first to vegas with a bunch of football fans
<shakes808> cmaloney: good luck man
<shakes808> cmaloney: Google?
<widox> cmaloney: cool, good luck!
<cmaloney> shakes808: nope. open soirce robotics
<cmaloney> thanks all!
<shakes808> awesome!  sounds fun
<cmaloney> that's the hope
<cmaloney> bbl
<brousch__> Good luck cmaloney !
<cmaloney> thankbyou
<cmaloney> part one of trip fone
<cmaloney> done
<_stink_> cmaloney: break a leg!
<cmaloney> thanks
<rick_h> how's vegas?
<greg-g> cmaloney: hey! you'll be super close but not close enough. Mountain View is about a hour and 45 minute drive from here, non traffic. I would shudder thinking of doing that during the commute hours (which are about 7-12 and 2-7)
<greg-g> but then lunch rush is 11:30-2, so yeah, traffic sucks here :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-03
<cmaloney> yeah no worries
<cmaloney> tomorrow is a full day as well
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> up early west coast?
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Body still thinks it's 8:30am
<cmaloney> That and I have an interview all day so sleep == impossible
<rick_h> time to get some good coffee!
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> no car
<jrwren> walk?
<cmaloney> Not much in walking distance
<jrwren> I know mountainview is suburban sprawl hell, but... but... hotel lobby coffee?
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's what I'm betting on
<greg-g> eek, yeah, there are dead areas of mtv
<jrwren> there are undead areas?
<greg-g> downtown, those 3 blocks, isn't *bad* just, small and you have to drive there and there's no parking and ugh bro-dudes
<jrwren> its been 16yrs since I was there :)
<jrwren> err... no... 15yrs almost to the day.
<greg-g> hah, nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-04
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> back home yet?
<cmaloney> No, flying out today.
<cmaloney> Back home after 10pm
<cmaloney> whee
<_stink_> how did it go?
<cmaloney> It went well. I did my best
<_stink_> o/o/o/
<cmaloney> Thanks. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-05
<cmaloney> morning
<gamerchick02> g'day cmaloney
<cmaloney> how goes?
<gamerchick02> roll up the rim has started. i didn't win this time but the coffee is good. :)
<cmaloney> eh
<cmaloney> heh
<gamerchick02> good! been busy and stuff.
<cmaloney> favorite time od the year
<gamerchick02> oh yeah. better than christmas. free coffee!!
<gamerchick02> :)
<cmaloney> Dale is now working over at the Biggby on 13 mile and John R.
<jrwren> is that tucker's brother?
<jrwren> because I really like them two. they faught evil and really suck it to 'em
<cmaloney> Um, no. :)
<cmaloney> Dale from Bean and Leaf
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-29
<waldo323> good morning
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<waldo323> it is michigan out again
<waldo323> er the weather has changed again today
<rick_h> yea, riding the bike friday, shoveling monday
<Scary_Guy> hey
<_stink_> off topic, but probably some overlap in interest: does anyone know if the national do not call registry applies to live (that is, not robocall) cold calls from real estate agencies?
<_stink_> i am looking but not sure.
<rick_h> I'd imagine. Honestly I'd get the call, mention you're on the DNC list and ask for their details and see if it stops.
<_stink_> i got mad too quickly to do any recon :)
<rick_h> heh, yea hate the spam calls
<rick_h> I end up never answering my phone and then once in a while miss stuff I do need.
<cmaloney> _stink_: Do you have a previous business relationship with this realtor?
<cmaloney> or their agency?
<_stink_> cmaloney: i thought about that... i searched my email for them first, which is the best way for me to know :)
<_stink_> maybe my wife has though
<_stink_> and even if she did something it would be limited to filling out a web form
<_stink_> which i guess is enough for them to call us until i tell them to stop
<_stink_> which... i did in so many words
<rick_h> heh "so many words...mostly of the four letter variety"
<cmaloney> _stink_: Yeah, we still get contacted by a realtor that we met when I was working at Sourceforge
<cmaloney> they make their rounds and call to let us know if we're still in the housing market
<rick_h> heh, those house folks don't mess around
<cmaloney> they have the tenacity of an Art Van salesperson
<cmaloney> who got a whiff of pleather-scented chum
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-30
<Scary_Guy> https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0108-national-do-not-call-registry third one down
<Scary_Guy> also this: https://egbg.home.xs4all.nl/counterscript.html
<Scary_Guy> in PDF too: https://egbg.home.xs4all.nl/english/counters.pdf
<Scary_Guy> finally, for the "special cases" there is: http://www.419eater.com/
<jrwren> I think flav is working here: https://news.engin.umich.edu/2018/01/internet-scanning-u-m-startup-offers-new-approach-to-cybersecurity/
<Scary_Guy> A. you mean that wasn't happening already?  and B. you don't mean Flavor Flav, do you.
<Scary_Guy> I still say we need a unicode character for rhetorical questions
<Alobar500> i didn't know there was a MI ubuntu team
<Scary_Guy> this is more of a general chat
<Scary_Guy> like people who use Ubuntu (and other *nix) who live in MI
<Alobar500> cool. Port Huron here.
<Scary_Guy> welcome, I'm in Madison Heights
<Alobar500> Nice. I'm an IRC novice. Where should I go for help with a booting problem? I've tried google for the past month to no avail.
<Scary_Guy> also you should check out mug.org even though you're kind of far.  they cast the meetings on youtube.
<Alobar500> ok will do thanks.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<n0p> jrwren: yup, that's the place
<jrwren> someone should have pointed Alobar500 to askubuntu.com :(
<cmaloney> What's that? :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: ouch!
<jrwren> so... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-30/amazon-berkshire-jpmorgan-to-set-up-a-health-company-for-staff   does this remind anyone of UAW & HAP in the 70s & 80s?
<cmaloney> only slightly
<cmaloney> Honestly I'm not sure why comanies aren't lobbying more for single payer health-care
<jrwren> i think they are, its just that health companies are lobbying more :)
<cmaloney> ugh
<brousch> When I brought it up with my old boss (small businesses) he told me that he uses health care as a differentiator to hire the best people
<jrwren> That is one option.
<jrwren> Another option is: all the best employers already provide really great health care. They have to, or people would leave.
<rick_h> jrwren: I think that there's a line there though. It's kind of a top X% that's true but there's a whole world below that threshold
<jrwren> rick_h: absolutely.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-31
<cmaloney> morning and all that
<cmaloney> CHC tonight
<cmaloney> https://www.meetup.com/Coffee-House-Coders-Royal-Oak/events/247176412/
<cmaloney> And Jorge will be presenting at the next MUG meeting about Kubernetes
<cmaloney> http://www.mug.org/
<cmaloney> https://www.meetup.com/Michigan-usr-group-Linux-Users-Group-in-Farmington-Hills/events/246870851/
<Scary_Guy> hi, planning on making the upcoming one
<cmaloney> Cool
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-01
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<jrwren> Good morning.
<jrwren> Is there a way to expose GIO mounts to comands which have no clue.
<jrwren> seems like a `gio run ...` command should exist.
<jrwren> or at least some LD_PRELOAD which intercepts open calls.
<cmaloney> GIO == ?
<jrwren> previously known as gvfs
<cmaloney> Ah
<cmaloney> Pretty sure it wasn't related to insurance, which is what DuckX2Go said
<jrwren> ya know how gnome/kde let you "mount" remote points, but they are only available in those gnome/kde programs?  Well that is GIO, but there is really no reason they need to be limited to programs explicitly written with gvfs.
<jrwren> ah, it is there by default.  just had to find it. shame on ubuntu for not making it more discoverable.
<jrwren> its in /run/user/1000/gvfs
<Scary_Guy> morning
<waldo323> good morning
<jrwren> i'm astounded this isn't more well known. that is actually pretty great.
<cmaloney> gvfs / gio?
<jrwren> yes
<waldo323> are gio mounts used for when connecting a device like an android phone?
<jrwren> no, that is a different protocol AFAIK
<jrwren> although, there may be some GIO plugin
<waldo323> ah yeah, fuse.gvfsd-fuse
<waldo323> I was remembering where my phone mounted to which was why I wondered
<waldo323> (it is nice to be able to use rcync etc to back it up)
<jrwren> same thing AFAICT.  gvfs/gio pretty much interchangable these days.
<waldo323> ah
<jrwren> I'm sure there is some history behind the two, but I vaguely recall KDE and Gnome merging on their VFS support and now its one system IIRC
<waldo323> I (usually) like it when people get together to make things better
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-02
<cmaloney> Good AM
<rick_h> Morning
<cmaloney> How goes?
<cmaloney> How do you like the hue lights?
<rick_h> I'm figuring it out still
<rick_h> I got some just white ones yesterday as they're a lot cheaper and figured most of the time I turn on/off lights based on if they're my daylight ones or soft white ones
<rick_h> I'm just not sure how I'm going to move the family from turning on/off light switches
<cmaloney> Just break the switches. :)
<cmaloney> It took a bit for JoDee to adopt to the X10 stuff
<rick_h> and in our living room we've got two lamps that have two switches on them. One switch is the soft white and one daylight, and then these other two lamps with just daylight on the other side of the room and I'm trying to figure out how to avoid a world where it's "hey google, turn on front lamp 1 and set color to daylight; hey google turn on front lamp 2 and set to daylight" as a replacement for flip switch;flip
<rick_h> switch
<rick_h> yea, I mean there's 14 bulbs in the living room in various lamps so not dropping the $$ to make them all color super power at once
<rick_h> figuring out how to set it up is kind of 'hmmmm...not sure'
<rick_h> anyway, it's cool in the office as I can move the light from blue in the morning through red at the end of the day and I do love how any light is now a dimable light
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Unfortuantely the wiring in this house makes X10 a bit of a pain
<cmaloney> having to do tricks to get the max coverage without dropping more $$ for repeaters and what-not
<cmaloney> But being in bed and turning off the living room light = A+
<rick_h> hah, yea I can see that
<widox> morning
<widox> rick_h: 14 bulbs in one room??
<rick_h> Yea, 4 lamps. Two have 3 each and two have 4 each on two switches. The first two are these towers with the paper cover and the others we use for the most part either 3 daylight on or the one soft white on.
<widox> I'm a light nazi. if you leave the room, you turn off the light. done :)
<widox> ah
<rick_h> Yea, but because I like daylight when doing stuff but soft at reading or movie time they're never all on at once
<widox> a bulb that mimics daylight?
<widox> I'm out of touch, I guess
<rick_h> Yea, I moved most of the house to daylight
<rick_h> It's just their color spectrum
<widox> huh. I think we have soft mostly
<rick_h> Most folks get soft white which are more red/yellow
<widox> soft or warm. but yep
<rick_h> Daylight it more pure white, true color for work like photos and such, and supposed to help with winter blues
<widox> ah
<rick_h> But not very 'mood setting'
<widox> like a SAD light
<rick_h> So I like this hue idea of same bulbs changing color
<rick_h> And every bulb can dim
<widox> dimming++
<rick_h> Anyway, it's fun to play with but it's one of those things you can setup in 100 ways so not sure how to do it yet
<rick_h> I wish I could just put the color bulbs in each lamp and decide later but that's a LOT more $$
<widox> you're talking about these guys? http://a.co/8aVW97F
<cmaloney> JoDee hates daylight bulbs so only my office has them
<widox> yeah, contractor put in regular bright white LEDs everywhere. Heather has been swapping them out to the warm ones...
<cmaloney> Previous owner of this house loved halogen bulbs
<cmaloney> They literally had incandescent-shaped bulbs with halogen cores in them
<cmaloney> I've been replacing them with LEDs where I can
<cmaloney> Still looking for a G8 dimmable bulb
<rick_h> widox: so I have 4 of those that came in the starter set, but I've since gotten these guys http://a.co/7I07noA that only do shades of white
<rick_h> I've got a bunch of LED daylight bulbs if anyone wants some :)
<cmaloney> Heh
<jrwren> rick_h: I'm lolling at you.  :p
<jrwren> "Internet of shit" is a meme for a reason.
<rick_h> jrwren: glad to be of service
<rick_h> jrwren: yea...it's toys to play with for sure
<jrwren> rick_h: Yeah, it can be fun.
<rick_h> evidently I'm more light curious than most running with different bulbs in different fixtures so I can tweak the lighting :P
<cmaloney> I think it's more training the family to turn off the lights when they leave the room. :)
<cmaloney> JoDee swears that I'm trying to kill her because I turn off all of the lights and keep the house dark
<cmaloney> problem is I'm more dark-adapted than she is, being part corporate mushroom and all
<widox> :D
<rick_h> so I actually put in motion sensor switches on the light inside the garage and the guest bathroom but now my son goes in and moves them to on vs auto
<rick_h> of course he also sometimes turns it into off from auto so I want into the room expecting light and go ...oh what blew out now?
<cmaloney> hahahahahaha
<cmaloney> Technology, foiled again
<brousch> I could see my son doing circuits around the house to make sure the auto-off lights stay on
<waldo323_> is daylight the coloring?
<rick_h> waldo323_: yea
<rick_h>  http://a.co/aJzZk9U
<waldo323_> i have a few spots that need to be converted to led so could use them if they are still looking for a home
<rick_h> waldo323_: sure, have about 10 of them atm. Just have to figure out how to get them to you
<cmaloney> MUg meeting?
<cmaloney> That's in two weeks
<rick_h> cmaloney: I should, when is the next one
<cmaloney> Feb 13th
<cmaloney> Jorge is presenting
<cmaloney> so you can give him shit about Kubernetes. :)
<rick_h> lol is he?
<cmaloney> And how it's a huge waste of time. ;)
<cmaloney> Yeah
<rick_h> hah, yea I'll try to make it out then
<rick_h> heh, so we built a whole distro around it and such? :P
<cmaloney> I'm messing
<cmaloney> I know just a teensy bit about it
<cmaloney> But it seems really interesting for large-scale deployments
<cmaloney> like Google
<rick_h> having the front door replaced and all I can think of now is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRSWpZiDquk
 * rick_h isn't going to be overly productive today...
<brousch> We replaced the door ourselves last summer. It took a full day and 6 trips to Home Depot.
<waldo323_> also, I work in commerce charter twp/west bloomfield now
<waldo323_> yikes
<waldo323_> i really don't want to replace my front door - house was built in the early 50s and i think the dimensions are unique to that time...i also have metal door frames for most of my doorways in the house- even most of the closets
<waldo323_> rick_h, how much would you like for them?
<rick_h> brousch: heh yea. I want it done by someone that knows the various bits and things it needs to be put in, trimmed, sealed, adjusted, etc
<rick_h> waldo323_: you can have them.
<brousch> My dad said it would be easy, he's done it before. However each house is subtly different, and mine had some annoyingly sized walls
<cmaloney> Yeah
<jrwren> I'd love a new front door with nice windows like rick_h's new one. Its on my list. :)
<cmaloney> Conceptually it's really easy
<jrwren> mental note: hire that out because I don't want to take all day and 6 trips to HD.
<rick_h> brousch: ouch yea
<rick_h> yea, I mean it's a square hole
<cmaloney> https://www.reddit.com/r/progmetal/comments/7urjks/bill_burr_talks_about_meshuggah_feb_2018/
<brousch> Yeah, I'm trying to say rick_h made the right choice
<jrwren> Framing is a skill which takes development.
<rick_h> but we had some air leakage around the door the last few years and when I investigated how to seal it I couldn't figure out wtf I was supposed to fix
<rick_h> experience..."haven't seen that before" turns into "yea solved that before"
<brousch> silicone all the things
<rick_h> lol
<cmaloney> Caulk the door shut
<rick_h> well the bottom was leaking air and the stuff I tried to stick onto the door just pulled off. the new door has this fancy adjustable base plate I hope will do better
<rick_h> lol
<jrwren> much like tech!
<rick_h> "from now on we only use the garage door"
<rick_h> jrwren: ++
<brousch> Now we need more attic insulation and baffles. My wife says, "You can just scoot around the attic on your back and nail it up. I saw it on youtube." oh hell no
<cmaloney> Yeah
<jrwren> "if I can do it, you can do it. have at it"
<cmaloney> was much like the time with the washing machine and replacing the springs
<jrwren> I got pros to blow foam and cellulose in my attic. it was well worth it.
<cmaloney> watched a youtube video, watched the dude in the video puncture the drum of the washing machine
<cmaloney> went "Nooooooope"
<rick_h> jrwren: +1 that's on my todo list for next winter for sure
<jrwren> Its also a matter of what kind of work you enjoy and what you don't. There are some things that I actually enjoy, and somethings that I don't and others that I aboslutely loath. I'll hire out the loathsome stuff.
<rick_h> we'll be in this house 12 years this summer so we're hitting a lot of stuff now
<jrwren> Cuz guess waht, I only get so much time off work and I'm gonna be VERY grumpy if I spent my whole weekend doing some stuff that I absolutely hate.
<jrwren> 12 years!  congrats!
<rick_h> I tried to convince the wife to move...no go
<jrwren> why move?
<jrwren> you've almost got the house paid off, then you can retire. :p
<jrwren> I tried to convince my wife to move too, and she was willing, but we couldn't agree on to where.
<_stink_> brousch: i put attic baffles in my old house
<_stink_> it was quite an experience
<rick_h> jrwren: hah, because I want 3 acres, a pole barn, and fewer neighbors
<cmaloney> Fewer human neighbors
<_stink_> head stuffed into the triangle edge of the roof with nails poking you in the eyeballs in the dark
<jrwren> rick_h: ah... yup. nice!
<rick_h> jrwren: but my wife desires none of those things so it's hard to convince someone to move, change schools, change is hard ...all that when she doesn't want it
<rick_h> _stink_: good times eh?
<brousch> _stink_: You are built better for that job. I am heavy and large
<jrwren> rick_h: yup, and... she is right :)
<rick_h> jrwren: :P
<rick_h> brousch: tell me about it! lol the last time I went into the attick through the little cut out in my son's bedroom closet I vowed that if I had to go up there again I'd cut the ceiling and put one of those pull down stairways in the hallway lol
<cmaloney> nice
<rick_h> "what's that? go to the attic? Fine, let me just get my saws-all
<_stink_> rick_h++
<_stink_> we had a drop down ladder in that house, it was nice
<_stink_> except in the winter when i put plastic over it
<brousch> I have 2 attics. One is accessible by taking everything out of the cleaning-supply closet and climbing on shelves. The other requires disassembling our only bedroom closet and removing everything from it.
<jrwren> one of my attics has the ladder and that is nice. The other does not, and its a pain.
<_stink_> brousch: i remember lying there in the dark listening to cars go by thinking "if i were single and i died here no one would ever find me"
<jrwren> _stink_: they'd find you when you started to smell.
<jrwren> _stink_: but if it is winter, not until spring. :p
<_stink_> haha
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> "hmm, what's changed recently? well daddy ran away from the family back in Jan so can't be related to that at all..."
<brousch> _stink_ would live up to his name
<rick_h> man, them moving from hammers to running saws at the front door is like the dentist running the drill
<rick_h> you cringe but hope it'll all be ok...
<cmaloney> just hope they don't say "whoops"
<rick_h> woot! before: https://photos.app.goo.gl/0XkSspn63otx1WR83 and after: https://photos.app.goo.gl/UqLLJtSlSnukC6ej2
<rick_h> and they did a whoops heh
<cmaloney> rick_h: nice!
<brousch> The windows on only one side makes me uncomfortable
<brousch> What are you hiding behind those bricks?
<brousch> much nicer though!
<widox> rick_h: nice
<widox> where did your doorbell go?
<widox> the trick-or-treaters will be confused now
<rick_h> and before: https://photos.app.goo.gl/wX4mnS0WDgUB6Jqz2 and after: https://photos.app.goo.gl/GACnUf2hjHjwQSum2 (really need to redo the roof and siding)
<rick_h> widox: so we had a wireless one but it's gone. I'm waiting for the nest hello to come out (pre-ordered) and will put that in once it's released either this month or next
<widox> :)
<widox> all kinds of new door fun. looks good!
<widox> we got a Therma-Tru entry doors, they look great. people think its a real wood door
<rick_h> Nice
<rick_h> lmao, I sent my wife a picture and she replies "you're going to be home when I get off work right? You realize I can't get into the house"
<rick_h> hadn't thought of that, but yea new doors/opener in the garage and the front door does mean you're locked out. lol sent the wife to work and changed all the locks!
<widox> hahaha
<widox> she picked up on that quick!
<rick_h> Anyone need a 8 port switch? Dell 2808 managed switch?
<jrwren> no ricknet?
<rick_h> jrwren: had to move to more ports so swapped out with a larger switch
<jrwren> ah, cool!
<jrwren> its too bad, I just picked up an 8port a few months ago. bad timing.
<rick_h> Yea all good.
<rick_h> This is how I get a full closet of stuff I don't use. Can't throw it out but not going to put it anywhere else.
<waldo323_> is it gigabit?
<waldo323_> I can take that too. (how much do you want for it?)  i have been meaning to get one but kept putting it off
<rick_h> waldo323_: sure
<rick_h> waldo323_: you can get dinner if we go out afterwards?
<waldo323_> yes
<rick_h> wfm
<waldo323_> cool thank you
<jrwren> oh man, this is absolutely great!  http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2018/02/rfc-ubuntu-1804-lts-minimal-images.html  I never thought I'd see the day.
<brousch> nice!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-03
<Scary_Guy> https://www.dlink-jp.com/wp-content/uploads/files/DGS-1008TL_EN_MAN_B1_R01.pdf is the switch I have, not managed though and doesn't really switch much.  right now just the main system and this Raspberry Pi I'm setting up
<cmaloney> Morning
<_stink_> hello
<jrwren> Good Morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-04
<cmaloney> Good morning pt. 2
