#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-28
<dholbach> good morning
<Fenario> patm:
<Fenario> patm: ping
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-29
<smagoun_> amitk_: you said that a new hardy kernel has been taken care of?
<amitk_> smagoun_: the fix is in, an upload to hardy was rejected due to upcoming freeze. I am prepping to upload to PPA now...
<smagoun_> ah, ok
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> tfheen, StevenK: I assigned two sponsoring bugs - one to each of you - mobile stuff :-)
<Mithrandir> dholbach: ok
<dholbach> Mithrandir: right... Mithrandir, not tfheen ;-)
<Mithrandir> tfheen is just an impostor.
<dholbach> seems bfiller was quite busy filing bugs :)
<Mithrandir> they want to get to be MOTUs
<dholbach> bring it on!
<Mithrandir> yeah
<Mithrandir> we need to sit down and think about people who want to be core-dev, but only contributing to a small portion, like, mobile.
<Mithrandir> and what the process should look like
<dholbach> that's fine
<dholbach> it's the same for kernel people or upstream folks
<dholbach> I asked the TB and they said that no policy change is necessary
<Mithrandir> ok
<dholbach> for core-dev: applicants send an application mail (CC they sponsors) to the MC, they will speak out recommendation if all is good, pass it on to the TB
<Mithrandir> yeah, we're not there yet, but it's nice to have the path ready.
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> I guess it's easier to go for MOTU first, then for core-dev, but it's certainly possible to go for core-dev first
<Mithrandir> humm, ok.
 * lool applied for core-dev last week
<bspencer> yo lool 
<lool> Heya
<lool> Hmm too late
<bspencer> lool, I created a gobby session : Hildon 2.0 Port
<bspencer> sabotage, StevenK, rustyl :  gobby session:  Hildon 2.0 Port
<sabotage> bspencer: need context?
<StevenK> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/libh/libhildon/libhildon_1.0.5+repack-0ubuntu1/changelog
<lool> bfiller_: I reviewed almost everything you pushed to hildon-desktop, so apart of actually runnin/testing them, I think these are fine
<lool> bfiller_: Small note: make sure you wrap debian/changelog at 78
<bfiller_> lool: ok, thanks
<lool> Thanks all!  Have fun!
<GrueMaster> Any timelines as to when Ubuntu-mobile (gutsy or hardy) will update their packages with moblin.org?  There is a new moblin-media package that is needed to test helix, but it has a lot of dependencies.
<lool> GrueMaster: I sent a summary of what's blocking this update to both the moblin and the ubuntu-mobile lists
<lool> GrueMaster: This was a couple of days ago; did anything change on the topic that I might not be aware of?
<lool> StevenK, bspencer, bfiller_: I've finished typing the hildon-desktop entry in gobby; I'll check IRC from time to time if you need me :)
<lool> StevenK, bspencer, bfiller_: I think it would work best if we could assign one or more persons to each module and the general tasks
<bfiller_> lool: I agree
<GrueMaster> I must have missed it.  I'll look through my archive.
<bspencer> lool, thanks for the help
<lool> bspencer: I checked our planning, and I have to fetch a car before dinner tomorrow
<StevenK> Woo
<lool> So I might have to leave as soon as 18:00 18:30 my time
<bspencer> ok.  can we call you at 9am our time?
<bspencer> what does that map to in my world?
<lool> It maps to 8am on your side, too early I'd guess
<lool> bspencer: That would work, but I don't want to push you all to stay up to 11pm
<lool> and counting
<lool> That would be after your dinner and all
<lool> StevenK: When are you leaving exactly?
<StevenK> lool: Leaving ...?
<lool> StevenK: I understood you weren't there tomorrow, but perhaps I misunderstood
<StevenK> ... I am here tomorrow ...
<lool> StevenK: Ok, nm then :)
<lool> bspencer: I think I'll eat very early tomorrow and stay late at home with the DSL
<lool> bspencer: Let's stick to 17/19 UTC tomorrow, i'll stay at home
<lool> Oh only 9 hours difference, so that 9/11 on your side
<lool> bspencer: If you're at UTC-8, How would 18/20 UTC sound?  10/12 your side, 19/21 my side
<bspencer> lool, ?
<bspencer> 10/12 = 10am ?
<lool> bspencer: Yes
<robr_laptop> so what's the url to the meeting agenda?
<lool> bspencer: Works for you?
<lool> Can anybody in portland confirm you're at UTC -8?  I'm at UTC +1
<smagoun> lool: that is correct
<bspencer> lool, sorry, got into another discussion.
<bspencer> yes... we are UTC -8
<bspencer> We'll call at 10am
<bspencer> Wednesday
<lool> Cool
<bspencer> sabotage,   sudo mount bind <src dir> <dest dir>
<bspencer> sabotage, sudo mount --bind ~/src /opt/Jan11/targets/test/fs/root/src/
<cwong1> bspencer: is Rob with you?
<bspencer> cwong1, nope
<cwong1> ok
<Mithrandir> StevenK: cheese evince hildon-desktop libhildonfm libhildonhelp liferea tasks contacts-snapshot dates galculator hildon-control-panel moblin-applets moblin-chat python-hildon
<Mithrandir> grep-dctrl -s Package -n -F Build-Depends -r libhildon-1-dev  /var/lib/apt/lists/*Sources | tr  \\n " "
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Danke
<smagoun> StevenK: would you swing by when you have a chance? I have a question about packaging
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-30
<amitk_> inuka_desk: 
<amitk_> [hardy-ume-ppa]
<amitk_> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net
<amitk_> incoming = ~ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu/
<amitk_> login = anonymous
<amitk_> distributions = hardy
<inuka_desk> amitk,thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<bspencer> lool: hey
<bspencer> sorry late
<bspencer> lool:  maybe StevenK  already said our status
<lool> bspencer: NP, do you still want us to have a call?
<bspencer> I added patches for the hildon-1
<lool> bspencer: That's excellent
<bspencer> bfiller and I are working through adding patches for hildon-desktop
<lool> bspencer: I heard Bill merged with newer upstream
<bspencer> we haven't tested anything though
<bspencer> just done the paperwork so far
<bspencer> s/paper/patch
<bfiller> bspencer: I'm going to test it out now
<bspencer> bfiller: ok.  we won't be calling you
<bspencer> bfiller:  I hope that we'll have hildon-desktop patches are updated today
<bspencer> we have one issue to resolve:  freedesktop.org changes in hildon-desktop
<bspencer> horace made a big patch with lots of small changes to the path.  (example:  change .osso to .config )  to comply with the freedesktop.org spec
<lool> bspencer: The FDO stuff is best discussed with upstream
<bspencer> and I need to go back and make sure those horace cchanges are really necessary
<bspencer> lool:  true... we could hold off on applying the patch
<lool> In fact, if they don't /fix/ anything, you can send them upstream without applying them
<bspencer> I would think we start an email with a proposed patch of changes.
<bspencer> agree
<lool> For some Ubuntu patches, I go via upstream and don't add them directly to our trees
<lool> bspencer: So no call?
<lool> Then I'll finish my reports and shutdown the internet!  \o/
<bspencer> no call.
<bspencer> ok.  thanks for stoping by.  the agenda has been in flux
<lool> Have fun all!
 * lool &
<HappyCamp_laptop> What's that smell by tonyespy ?
<HappyCamp_laptop> smagoun: do you smell that?
<smagoun> HappyCamp_laptop: nope. must be near you
<tonyespy> HappyCamp_laptop: I think you're smelling yourself bee-atch
<HappyCamp_laptop> LOL
<Mithrandir> tonyespy: you volunteered to get any patches from moblin for NM into Ubuntu; how's that going=?going?
<tonyespy> HappyCamp_laptop: for the record, I ate no beans last nite...
<tonyespy> Mithrandir: it's not
<HappyCamp_laptop> cheers from the room tonyespy !!!
<HappyCamp_laptop> \o/
<tonyespy> Mithradir: right now I'm trying to get my kernel trees setup on zinc
<Mithrandir> tonyespy: 'k
<tonyespy> Mithrandir: let's discuss nm patches this afternoon
<Mithrandir> bfiller: how's the osso-af-settings merge going?
<tonyespy> Mithrandir: there's really only one core nm patch, and one or two nm-applet patches
<bfiller> Mithrandir: that is done, committed change to bzr
<Mithrandir> sounds good
<Mithrandir> bfiller: cool, then I'll pester happycamp to get rid of the repo on moblin.org
<Mithrandir> bfiller: you'll get it uploaded too?
<bfiller> Mithrandir: actually, not sure if all the moblin changes have been merged yet
<bfiller> Mithrandir: I need to check on this
<Mithrandir> bfiller: ok, that was what I was asking about.  Pleasetell me when it's done.
<bfiller> Mithrandir: will do
<Mithrandir> consensus was we don't use hildon-control-panel, right?
<smagoun> Mithrandir: I think we (MBU) still use it
<ChickenCutlass> Mithrandir, we use it for the Q1 build
<Mithrandir> ahkay, let's not nuke it then. :-)
<bfiller> Mithrandir: osso-af-settings is all set, we have all the moblin changes
<bfiller> Mithrandir: if you could upload I'd appreciate as I'm working on hildon-desktop
<bfiller> Mithrandir: in hell...
<Mithrandir> just off bzr?
<bfiller> Mithrandir: yes, off ubuntu branch
<Mithrandir> good, good
<agoliveir1> HappyCamp: The package is hildon-libs-l10n-engb
<agoliveira> HappyCamp_laptop, HappyCamp_ubuntu : The package is hildon-libs-l10n-engb
<HappyCamp_laptop> agoliveira: thanks
<HappyCamp_laptop> agoliveira: done with removing hildon-libs-l10n-engb from the fsets
<agoliveira> HappyCamp_laptop: Cool.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-31
<dholbach> good morning
<repete> !seen kwii
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen kwii - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Mithrandir> are there anybody around who would mind if we had the meeting in person?
<Mithrandir> given that it tends to be Canonical and Intel people contributing and most of those are already present in the room.
<Mithrandir> we'll be happy to have it here if there are anybody external, though.
<alek_desk> Mithrandir: hi
<alek_desk> robr: hi
<Mithrandir> alek_desk: yo
<alek_desk> Mithrandir, hoyo. Then I could sleep again. if no IRC meeting here :)
<Mithrandir> alek_desk: you could come into the office? :-P
<alek_desk> Mithrandir, :) go to office at 1AM in PRC is not very good idea.
<Mithrandir> alek_desk: oh, you're in China.  Sorry. :-)
<Mithrandir> I thought you were local to Portland, for some reason.
<GrueMaster> Awe, where's your sense of adventure?
<alek_desk> Mithrandir, haha.
<Mithrandir> alek_desk: we have all the names of your kernel people, for access to kernel.ubuntu.com?  If so, we'll take the rest offline here in Oregon
<robr> alek_desk: hi
<alek_desk> Mithrandir, yes. I think so.
<Mithrandir> alek_desk: ok, goodie.  See you around then. :-)
<alek_desk> robr, about the booting performance issue.
<alek_desk> Mithrandir, see you.
<alek_desk> Martin got the "real" data comparison, do you see the mail ?
<Jay-laptop> alek_desk: robr is busy checking his emails next to me :-)
<alek_desk> robr, we think for Ubuntu booting counting, our data included BIOS time originally.
<alek_desk> Jay-laptop, thanks :)
<alek_desk> robr, while for RF's data, it is pure OS booting time
<alek_desk> so actually, our image boot faster than RF image.
<robr> alek_desk: what do you mean?
<alek_desk> Jay-laptop, do you see the patch feng sent out
<alek_desk> robr, it was said RF booting only need 51 seconds and Moblin image booting need 61 seconds in a mail sent by Ubuntu people.
<robr> alek_desk: i saw martin's email
<alek_desk> robr, actually the RF data did not count BIOS time.
<Jay-laptop> alek_desk: Not yet, did he send it to ubuntu kernel-team?
<alek_desk> Jay-laptop, no.
<robr> alek_desk: the timings that Martin included, by whom and where was the timings taken?
<alek_desk> robr, Martin tested it on a CRB C0 board.
<robr> alek_desk: we think the numbers that were sent out were on a different BIOS and customer hw
<GrueMaster> I'm in the lab now with D0 CB and Bios 67.  My timing for Moblin 20080114 is 61 seconds (less 18 seconds for bios).
<GrueMaster> My tests on RF were ~65 seconds.
<GrueMaster> This is from power on.
<alek_desk> robr, GrueMaster, I think we should only count pure OS booting time for both.
<alek_desk> robr, BTW, we got a EFI bios from tinao team, it only costs 3 seconds.
<Mithrandir> I don't think we want EFI if we can avoid it.  According to what I've heard from mjg59, suspend and such can become interesting then
<alek_desk> Mithrandir, the EFI team here want to push that though :(
<Mithrandir> also, 3s is quite a bit
<Mithrandir> alek_desk: do you mean the total is 3s, or it is 18s+3s?
<robr> alek_desk: i agree we need to be talking about the same thing and breakout the numbers ... we can't ignore bios time, so we need to measure it,  all measurements need to be broken out
<robr> Mithrandir: what about EFI makes suspend interesting?
<Mithrandir> I don't remember the details, sorry.  It might be something else than suspend
<Mithrandir> usplash will break, at least, unless EFI maps the video bios at the same address as the legacy address.
<StevenK> Which I suspect is unlikely
<alek_desk> Mithrandir, according to our test, usplash works.
<Mithrandir> alek_desk: hum, ok.
<Mithrandir> I'm not even pretending to know much about EFI; I just know that if mjg59 tells me it might well break something, it might well break something. :-)
<robr> there are other reasons to not like EFI -- i should give the disclaimer that i used to work in the EFI group at Intel
<alek_desk> :)
<suihkulokki> linuxbios!
<Mithrandir> alek_desk: could you respond to my question about whether it's 3s total or 3s more (with EFI)?
<alek_desk> Mithrandir, oh, sorry, it is total time.
<alek_desk> from power on to loading kernel by Elilo
<robr> alek_desk: that's 3s for EFI and booting the kernel and launching X Windows?
<alek_desk> robr, from press power button to Elilo appears
<robr> alek_desk: ahh, you mean 3 seconds to load ELILO
<Mithrandir> robr: slightly optimistic, that. :-)
<alek_desk> robr, the BIOS initialization is very fast
<alek_desk> And X window startup is really time consuming.
<robr> alek_desk: i wouldn't say 3 seconds is fast, it's just fast for a PC BIOS
<alek_desk> robr, it is much faster then current CRB bios
<robr> anyway it's a little pointless to be talking about which flavor of BIOS is used or not used -- it will be the customer that decides one way or another
<alek_desk> robr, yes. we know.
<robr> we can only reduce the OS boot time and that is what we should focus on 
<alek_desk> robr, yes. But currently have no idea how to make kernel boot faster or to let X startup faster. :(
<robr> alek_desk: one thing that will help with booting the kernel faster is to compile all the required drivers into the kernel instead of loadable modules
<robr> alek_desk: i believe most drivers are compiled in on the moblin kernel, but not all
<robr> alek_desk: but i think we need to have brainstorming meeting with Ubuntu engineers and rusty and see if we can get a bin list of things to try to reduce boot speed
<alek_desk> robr, yes. especially for GUI stuff, since almost half of time is eaten by them.
<alek_desk> robr, there is another issue about HDA audio
<alek_desk> there are 50+ extra nobody care IRQs trigger during HDA working
<robr> GrueMaster: any ideas on alek_desk 's comment about HDA?
<alek_desk> Martin already filed a launchpad report to track that.
<GrueMaster> Oops, missed it. 
<GrueMaster> I was away fending off another fire.
<GrueMaster> I'm going to do some quick tests of alsa 1.0.16 today.  I think it will help, as there have been some substantial changes to the core code.
<bspencer> bfiller, looking at the log at:  https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/hildon-desktop/ubuntu
<HappyCamp_laptop> bspencer: smagoun rustyl Mithrandir robr:  So are we going to have a hardy sync up?  Figure out what still needs to be done, etc...   
<bspencer> HappyCamp_laptop, good to do.  When?  We are in the middle of finding out what that is.
<HappyCamp_laptop> bspencer: I would think sooner the better, so people know what needs to be done.
<Mithrandir> HappyCamp_laptop: we had the small bits that were still hanging from Monday discussed earlier.  Read https://intel.wiki.canonical.com/Mobile/UbuntuMobileSprintJanuary2008/MoblinReviewNotes and strike through what's done.
<smagoun> inuka_desk: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Testing/libdrm/Hardy/libdrm2_2.3.0-4ubuntu4~804um1_lpia.deb
<smagoun> http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Testing/libdrm/Hardy/libdrm2-dbg_2.3.0-4ubuntu4~804um1_lpia.deb
<smagoun> http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Testing/libdrm/Hardy/libdrm-dev_2.3.0-4ubuntu4~804um1_lpia.deb
<smagoun> http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Testing/xserver-xorg-video-psb/Hardy/xserver-xorg-video-psb_0.2.6-0ubuntu1~804um1_i386.deb
<smagoun> http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Testing/xserver-xorg-video-psb/Hardy/xserver-xorg-video-psb-dbg_0.2.6-0ubuntu1~804um1_i386.deb
<bspencer> bfiller, I have patches against hm-statusbar-container
<bspencer> which doesn't exist in Hildon 2.0
<bspencer> it is for embedding the statusbar
<bspencer> do you want to add these in stages, or just a single patch with a fully updated hm-statusbar container ?
<bfiller> bspencer: yup, I'm creating a patch right now that adds it
<bspencer> hm... then my patch which also adds it needs to be changed :)
<bfiller> bspencer: I wonder if it might be easier for you to wait till I'm done
<bspencer> yep
<bfiller> bspencer: I'm almost there
<bfiller> bspencer: probably 1 more hour
<GrueMaster> smagoun:  Do you already have the Beta6 kernel module intigrated?  These drivers are very version dependent on the kernel module.
<bspencer> bfiller, np
<bspencer> in fact all the changes I have touch that file   (dynamic screen size, statusbar length fix)
<Mithrandir> ToddBrandt: were you part of the moblin integration discussion monday?
<smagoun> GrueMaster: for gutsy or hardy?
<GrueMaster> Both.  If you plan on integrating the beta6 video drivers for X, you need the corresponding kernel module.
<ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: no I missed that one
<GrueMaster> I just saw your post with the links.
<Mithrandir> ToddBrandt: ok, you have an action item to get the matchbox keyboard manager things into the PPA (and upstream).
<Mithrandir> ToddBrandt: I'm not going to ask how it's going, then. :-)
<smagoun> GrueMaster: Inuka has a LUM with the beta 6 driver, and we're trying that alongside bryce's updates to the x server
<ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: who gave me the AR? Was it Mauri?
<Mithrandir> ToddBrandt: I think she was in the meeting, yes.
<GrueMaster> ok, just checking.  I remember that Gutsy had the Beta3 X drivers and the alpha kernel module for a while.
<smagoun> GrueMaster: yup, it's a bit of a mess :)
<GrueMaster> It happens.
<sabotage> kyleN: whered yall go?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-02-01
<dholbach> good morning
<StevenK> HappyCamp_laptop: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<HappyCamp_laptop> StevenK: Thanks!
<smagoun> Hi all, I'm looking for a sponsor to get an update to the moblin-applets package into universe: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/moblin-applets/+bug/187181
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 187181 in moblin-applets "Upgrade to moblin-applets 0.27" [Undecided,In progress] 
<sabotage> kyleN_:  apt-get install gtk-theme-switch
<kyleN_> sabotage: excellent. thx
<sabotage> Its a start (someone elses) and does not yet handle icons that I can see yet...still looking at the source
<sabotage> but it does what you wanted
<kyleN_> sabotage_afk:  that's a big leg up for us. much appreciated
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-02-02
<sabotage> kyleN_: after reading through the code for gtk-theme-switch, it seems to only update gtk rc settings and not in a system wide way, but only by users ~/.gtk-2.0/gtkrc file
<kyleN_> sabotage: does it do it system wide for the current user?
<sabotage> so its assuming a desktop env  with multiple users, not quite what we're trying to address, but could be adapted to our needs
<sabotage> yes/no...
<kyleN_> sabotage: not sure the multiple users assumption is relevant for a MID though
<sabotage> settings in users home dir take precedence over system wide, so it *looks* system wide 
<sabotage> agreed
<sabotage> also, it's missing some key subsystem settings 
<kyleN_> looking sys wide may be good enough
<kyleN_> what's missing?
<sabotage> like matchbox, icons, gconf settings and backgrounds
<kyleN_> matchbox and backgrounds strike me as critical
<sabotage> not if we don't have a "user" (we do now, but not sure if that will stay the case)
<sabotage> background is actually quite /interesting/
<sabotage> ;)
<sabotage> setting the X background does nothing for us
<kyleN_> why, on one ever sees that?
<sabotage> the background is HomeArea dependant
<sabotage> so if the UI is flash based, then we need to get the flash plugin to change its bg image
<sabotage> if it's HTML/Xul based, then we need to effect the DOM settings via CSS or some Javascript interface
<kyleN_> well, the home plugin flash shows sometimes, then it reverts to the normal marquee + app when an app launches
<sabotage> and if we use Clutter, well, I've no idea yet how that gets changed yet ;)
<kyleN_> right, those are good points. our specific need is flash home ui, user changes it, then the rest of the UI gets the same fonts/colors/gtk theme
<sabotage> but when the app goes away, then the flash ui shows again and I assume you want the bg changes to be persistant, right?
<kyleN_> the flash ui is full screen
<kyleN_> so there is no bg
<sabotage> most of the rest is very doable...just not 100% sure how we'll tackle the background
<kyleN_> where's the background if the flash ui is full screen?
<StevenK> Behind the flash ui, I'm guessing
<sabotage> that's a misnomer...the HTML ui and the Clutter ui are also "fjull screen", but all of them have "background" like properties that users will want to alter
<kyleN_> right - invisible, right?
<sabotage> no, embedded in the flash SWF
<kyleN_> ah, our short term need does not involve the user changing it
<kyleN_> say, two flash movies, with two equivalent themes. not user configurables
<sabotage> does your idea of changing the theme involve sending a message to the flash ui to change its colors. etc...?
<kyleN_> actually, there are multiple flash movies, i believe
<kyleN_> the user can switch between them
<kyleN_> they have a different look and feel
<kyleN_> when the user switches, we want all the rest to switch too
<sabotage> ok for now I suppose, but most users will expect to be able to set an image in their photo viewer/library to the screen background
<kyleN_> that is, they switch, then launch an app, flash goes away
<sabotage> right?
<kyleN_> marquee and app are themes to match the flash move
<kyleN_> yes, that will be nice but it is not a deliverable for the custom team right now
<kyleN_> the other is
<sabotage> ah, you're switching the HomeArea applet then...that's a bit different, not really "theme" related
<kyleN_> we switch, then the REST switches accordingly
<kyleN_> automatically
<kyleN_> where the REST is colors fonts and gtk theme
<sabotage> ok
<kyleN_> you think that is likely to be doable without too much mountain climbing?
<sabotage> so then the "REST" you are refering to should be doable
<kyleN_> excellent!
<sabotage> the current tool is a bit insufficient but adaptable.
<kyleN_> i figure when the flash switches, it uses out javasscript api to make the appropriate calls, whatever they turn out to be
<sabotage> I've a running list of thing it needs to be adapted to do
<kyleN_> this will be a big help
<sabotage> I'm not promising to *DO
<sabotage> * the changes ;)
<sabotage> though I'll probably take a stab at it as it relates to the rest of the theme work I am doing
<kyleN_> right. whatever you can do, even if it is just invistigate and report, that will be a help
<sabotage> it's just not on our POR to provide a theme switcher
<sabotage> yep
<kyleN_> cool. I'd like to stay in touch on this
<kyleN_> but for now, our week in Hillsboro is just about OVER!
<sabotage> I'll send my notes to the mail list once I get back on the Intel network
<kyleN_> back to soggy massachusetts
<kyleN_> cool
<sabotage> soggy or snowy?
<kyleN_> soggy, i hear. 
<kyleN_> was snowy though. we had three snowfalls of 10-12 inches each earlier
<feng_> ;d
<feng_> ;dls
<feng_> sorry for the mis-input, just tried  a new BT keyboard
<Termy2007> hi.. i want to ged rid of windows mobile 2003 se on my t-mobile pda... will ubuntu mobile be available for this device?
<Termy2007> can anyone help me?
<ComradeHaz> Evening gent's. Pretty sure I know the answer, and pretty sure it's no - but has ubuntu mobile made it onto any HTC Kaisers yet?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-02-03
<rzr> hi
<rzr> look for this device : http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9710143183.html
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-26
<devin_> do you guys deal with wireless cards?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-27
 * playya  needs ogra's openmoko debugging board
<FreeSoul> hi guys, i was looking for a way to ask ubuntu mobile guys to enable CONFIG_LIBERTAS_SDIO, CONFIG_LIBERTAS and CONFIG_MMC to enable Marvell 8686 SDIO wifi card that is on Benq mid s6. It's in kernel since 2.6.24. Thanks everybody
<FreeSoul> anyone?
<persia> FreeSoul, I filed a bug about that in September.  I'll see if I can find the number.
<FreeSoul> oh, thanks persia! can i also have the url? i'd like to make a couple of software requests
<persia> FreeSoul, It's bug #274704 : if you know what needs changing to make it work, I'd be happy, as the lack of connectivity on that device is a persistent annoyance.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274704 in linux-lpia "Wireless network interface not recognised" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274704
<FreeSoul> that would probably be usefull for anybody
<persia> Oh, software requests?  Do you mean new packages?
<FreeSoul> yohoo :) thanks!
<FreeSoul> uhmmm not exactly
<persia> OK.  What do you mean?
<FreeSoul> persia: i have a mid and i've tested ubuntu mobile too and there're a couple of things that everybody seems to have forget about: 
<persia> I'm not sure "forgot" is the right word, but yeah, I've noticed some things too.
<persia> So, what are you thinking?
<FreeSoul> we have a touchscreen and we can't take a note handwriting. I don't mean handwriting recongnition, just drawing, taking notes and save them in a graphic format like png, pdf or whatever
<persia> Doesn't xournal do that?
<FreeSoul> and second: no pin or password at boot time.
<persia> Oh, the no password at boot time is a feature.
<persia> There's actually some work this cycle to make it possible to have a password for network access, but it still won't ask password at boot.
<FreeSoul> yes i mean, if you take my mid you can access personal data and files so a simple authentication would be great, in X, so that we have sw keyboard working and all the rest
<persia> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mid-display-manager is the spec about enabling support for having usernames and passwords (amoung other features).
<FreeSoul> yeah as password at book i mean like the login password to start and X session
<persia> There's no real chance of that being turned on.  There's too many people who want it to work without a password.
<FreeSoul> uhmmm quite strange :)
<persia> You could do an encrypted loopback filesystem for protected data.
<FreeSoul> anyway at least password after recovery from standby :)
<persia> For instance, I used to keep some passwords on my Zaurus, but I had the file containing the passwords encrypted, so I needed to enter a password to see them.
<persia> There's really no chance of that.
<FreeSoul> yes but consider concat list, email applications, and so on...
<persia> I know.
<FreeSoul> anyway ok this is not as necessary as eanbling the wifi driver :)
<persia> You could bring it up at the weekly meeting (12:00 UTC on Thursdays), but from previous discussions, I think it's not going to happen.
<persia> Alternately, if you want to get involved in the mid-display-manager effort, you might be able to submit some code that could provide an option to enable passwords post-install for those who wanted them.
<persia> No, having the hardware enabled is a first-class problem.  We all end up customising our installs anyway, so the selection of software is only a second-class problem.
<FreeSoul> sure
<FreeSoul> anyway running the live usb image the touchscreen won't work now... it worked until 17 november release.... later i could not test it and now i can't use the touchscreen mouse
<persia> What hardware do you have?
<FreeSoul> BenQ MID S6
<FreeSoul> http://benq.it/products/MobileInternetDevice/?product=1048&page=specifications
<FreeSoul> it's in italian but I'm sure you can understand specs :P
<FreeSoul> http://www.benq.com/products/MobileInternetDevice/?product=1402&page=specifications the english page :)
<persia> That looks suspiciously like the Aigo
<persia> I'm going to guess it uses the same touchscreen, for which the drivers are annoyingly closed.
<persia> There's been several requests to the driver providers to port to the new X stack, but it's yet to happen to my knowledge.
<FreeSoul> persia, i've already come here saying that the benq mid s6 comes with a DVD with full sources of everything that is on the device. kernel, drivers, patches, everything
<FreeSoul> so drivers, at least for the benq mid s6, are open
<persia> I remember, and I think you and I and Celtiore were looking into what could be used.
<FreeSoul> yep :)
<Celtiore> hi
<FreeSoul> hi there Celtiore
<persia> My memory is that there was a binary blob for the touchscreen drivers that didn't work with newer X, and that we didn't have source.
<Celtiore> who HL me :p
<persia> Celtiore, I did, mentioning that you were part of the conversation that FreeSoul, you, and I had several months ago about the touchscreen drivers.
<FreeSoul> guys i've dvd here with me, just tell me where i can put it and i upload it
<FreeSoul> of course it has also drivers for g-sensor and for scrollpad
<persia> FreeSoul, Does the source you have on the DVD include touchscreen drivers?  Do these drivers compile against the current X in Ubuntu?  Do you have a license to redistribute this source?
<Celtiore> FreeSoul, you have already upload it
<Celtiore> the dvd don't have the source code concerning touchscreen
<FreeSoul> uhmmmm.... you sure??
<Celtiore> yes
<FreeSoul> uhmm
<persia> That matches my memory of the previous investigation as well.
<Celtiore> if you want, you can try the last ubuntu 8.04.1 with touchscrenn working
<FreeSoul> well, the touchscreen was working a few months ago :)
<Celtiore> yes with ubuntu 7.10
<FreeSoul> Celtiore: yep i was hoping the driver in 9.04 :)
<FreeSoul> with 8.04 it was ok
<Celtiore> http://www.midwiki.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=53&func=view&catid=4&id=311&limit=6&limitstart=12#327
<Celtiore> here you can find the last official closed driver : http://www.ideacom.com.tw/DR_UTS6680.htm
<Celtiore> but not yet 8.10 or 9.04
<Celtiore> i send an email, but no answer :(
<FreeSoul> uhmmm ok
<FreeSoul> it's incredible hardware makes still don't understand the importance of drivers
<FreeSoul> ok guys I'll wait some days more since i'm busy at the unviersity now.... I hope someone will solve driver problems for both touchscreen and wifi
<FreeSoul> i have to go now :'(
<persia> FreeSoul, For WiFi, please comment on that bug with your suggested solution.
<Celtiore> all are solved ?!
<persia> For touchscreen, it's more a matter of working with the manufacturer to get drivers, unfortunately, or reverse engineering them.
<persia> Celtiore, No :(
<Celtiore> we can use it with ubuntu 8.04 
<FreeSoul> persia: done
<FreeSoul> now i go guys, i'm sorry, i gotta study
<FreeSoul> c ya soon
<persia> Celtiore, Yes, but that's getting rather out of date, and large chunks of MID didn't get properly sorted until 8.10.
<Celtiore> sure
<Celtiore> i'm sorry but last day i ask which deb contain 'gtk-update-icon-cache', and ogra give me the right package, but i don't remember it :(
<Celtiore> who can help me 
<persia> There's two easy ways to check.  If you have that, try `dpkg -S $(which gtk-update-icon-cache)`
<Celtiore> thanks you
<persia> If you don't, try installing apt-file and running `apt-file search gtk-update-icon-cache`
<ogra> or dpkg -S `which gtk-update-icon-cache`
<ogra> though iirc there is also a debhelper tool for that 
<ogra> dh_iconcache ? 
<persia> dh_icons, but that solves a slightly different issue.
<ogra> "dh_icons is a debhelper program that updates Freedesktop icon caches when needed, using the update-icon-caches program provided by GTK+2.12."
<ogra> well, it should provide you the same 
<persia> Um, no.
<persia> dh_icons creates debhelper maintainer script stubs that call gtk-update-icon-cache
<persia> If you want to update it locally yourself, this is different.
<persia> You can't call the update at package build time, you need to call dh_icons.  Similarly, you can't call dh_icons on an installed system, you need to call gtk-update-icon-cache (or whichever is appropriate for your environment).
<ogra> ah, yeah, you are missing the background :) 
<persia> dh_iconcache was a slightly different implementation of the debhelper solution, which was introduced as Ubuntu-local, and is now obsolete.
<persia> Ah, true :)
<ogra> Celtiore wanted to get rid of a lintian warning :)
<persia> dh_icons is the right solution for that.
<ogra> right
<Celtiore> persia, i have a question 
<Celtiore> aigo mid have bluetooth and gps
<Celtiore> but i can't find with ubuntu :(
<Celtiore> http://www.midwiki.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&amp;Itemid=53&amp;func=view&amp;catid=4&amp;id=345#346
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-28
<gfather> hello guys
<gfather> on wich devices mid edtion run on ?
<gfather> can i port it to freerunner ?
<playya> gfather, good idea
<gfather> yes , i dont know what devices it could run on , maybe 7inch stuff , not sure
<playya> i started to bring some parts in a lokal bitbake archive but deleted my whole work :(
<playya> its hard to run it on 800x480
<playya> and i think most of the programs won't fit on the screen resolution
<gfather> mmm
<gfather> weould if it can be customized , i think it could be great to run on freerunner , good cpu , good ram , and touch
<playya> most apps are designed for 4:3. freerunner has a 3:4 screen
<gfather> so it could look very nice
<gfather> well we can rotate that , right
<gfather> so it will ve 4:3
<playya> thats why mickey is working on UMAF
<gfather> playya where i can find documentation that could help me port it ,
<gfather> and maybe someone to help :)
<playya> http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Untitled_Mobile_Application_Framework
<playya> but it is not even implemented
<playya> and in the begin it will be based on elementary
<playya> do you know any packages in the ubuntu repo base on enlightenmen?
<gfather> i didnt understad what u mean ?
<playya> you might want to read the bitbake manual
<gfather> ok
<playya> gfather, ever used bitbake/mokomakefile before?
<gfather> yes
<gfather> mokomakefile
<playya> the you have a lot of examples in the openembedded/packages directory
<gfather> playya yes , well i thought becouse debian is ported to freeruner , we can sue the same kernel patches and drivers
<playya> it think they use the OM kernel
<playya> the .26
<gfather> playya gonna read more on the subject , if u know someone thats interested to help , tell me pleas
<playya> me and another guy
<playya> but i do not have really the time to do alot for it :(
<persia> Ubuntu can't run on the freerunner: the Ubuntu armel port requires at least armv5t, which the freerunner doesn't have.
<playya> but it might be possible for n800
<gfather> :(
<persia> Yeah.  The n800 ought just work.  Main issue is kernel.
<gfather> but couldent work even if we used some debian files ?
<Celtiore> Hi,
<persia> Sure.  I think Debian runs on the freerunner.
<gfather> debian runs of the freerunner, thats why im sure it can ubuntu mid could work also
<Celtiore> persia, do you know if we can find how-to concerning mods for desktop ?
<playya> brb
<persia> Celtiore, What sort of mods?
<ogra> playya, i'm driving to berlin on sunday ... should i drop off the debug board somewhere on my way ? 
<gfather> ogra i want a test device and debug board to pleas :)
<Celtiore> mods, for display new icons
<Celtiore> and about hildon-navigator ...
<gfather> persia could you explain more pleas
<persia> Celtiore, I don't know about hildon-navigator, and I only know about displaying icons for intrepid & jaunty.  I don't know of any guides.
<Celtiore> ok
<persia> gfather, The compilation for Debian and Ubuntu differ for armel, with the result that Ubuntu binary packages can't run on the freerunner.  You may be able to recompile some of them locally, or you could work with Debian folk to integrate some of the changes (if they work).
<playya> ogra, wrong direction :(
<playya> i could ask a prof. if you can drop it in brandenburg :P
<ogra> playya, you moved from GÃ ?
<gfather> i see :(
<playya> i never lived in GÃ
<gfather> and it may need more ram than what freerunner has
<ogra> oh, i thought you study there
<playya> i live in villinge/offenburg
<persia> gfather, Maybe, but the processor is really the issue.
<ogra> ah, crap
<playya> are you going to visit linuxtag/cebit?
<ogra> not sure about either
<playya> i try to be there in the ubuntu booth
<ogra> i'm very likely going to FOSDEM as many/most of us after the sprint
<playya> julius and i figured out that belgium is really expensive
<ogra> pfft
<ogra> its the greatest european event 
<playya> and my exams start on monday
<ogra> worth spending some extra money
<ogra> ah, thats bad indeed
<playya> I'm broke, too
<playya> need a GSoC project to finance this years congresses :P
<ogra> heh
<playya> or a paid bachelor thesis
<playya> persia, i don't see a arm kernel on http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git
<playya> where can i find it?
<playya> gfather, btw. the glamo sucks
<ogra> playya, its the normal ubuntu kernel ... 
<ogra> there is no specific arm tree
<ogra> currently iop32x, ixp4xx, orion5x and versatile are built 
<ogra> we're waiting for the kernel team to merge the linux-omap tree for soe omap arches 
<persia> playya, http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git/ubuntu/ubuntu-jaunty.git
<ogra> (and this whole conversation is totally off topic in this channel :P we should switch to #ubuntu-arm)
<ogra> before persia gets a heart attack :P
<persia> heh
<ogra> :)
<gfather[a]> one question , is ubuntu mid been localized to arabic ?
<persia> gfather[a], Probably only partially.  More translations welcome.
<gfather> well if u need just tell me , and on what device i could run it to test and localize , though i have only a desktop
<persia> You can test on a desktop in a virtual environment.  It works in kvm or qemu.
<persia> Beyond that, I don't know of any devices with full hardware support right now.  Maybe some UMPCs.
<gfather> i see
<ogra> well, the Q1
<persia> I thought I heard of issues with the Q1U touchscreen for jaunty.  Are they sorted?
<ogra> at least *most* HW of it is supported
<ogra> no, just writing the netbook image to USB to test 
<persia> Well, the D4 seems to work fairly well, excepting networking.
<persia> Oh, yeah, I was specifically meaning MID devices.  There's fairly good HW support for a fair number of netbooks and UMPCs for the netbook image.
<persia> Even the MID image ought run on a fair number of them.
<ogra> i didnt have a rsyncable MID image 
<ogra> unr was faster for testing the touchscreen issue
<ogra> timo wants logs ... 
<persia> Of course :)
 * ogra would prefer to do arm work today, but that seems critical
<crevette> hello
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-29
<Oxone> Hi, can anyone help me with mobile softwares please ?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-30
<tomodachi> so what does one do with this "img" file
<tomodachi> is it an bootable iso?
<tomodachi> should one dd it to a bootable device?
<tomodachi> planning to install ubuntu-mid on my OLPC laptop
<rzr> tomodachi: how the olpc project going ?
<tomodachi> rzr: wentto bed after that so havent even started 
<tomodachi> rzr: i can keep you posted if youre interested
<rzr> i stay around anyway
<tomodachi> rzr: ill try to rememver my promise
<rzr> tomodachi: are you impressed w/ moblin ? http://www.newlc.com/en/watch-moblin-distro-netbooks-and-atom-devices
<tomodachi> rzr: havent used it at all so far :)
<tomodachi> not even seen it live
<tomodachi> i just know i want something debian-like for my olpc
<tomodachi> the centos on my olpc has a to old kernel and it to slow for my tastes
<rzr> i made a video , but it's not very interessing
<tomodachi> cool
<tomodachi> i'll have a look
<tomodachi> feels very kde? :)
<persia> !m
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about m
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-31
<tomodachi> extremely little talk here isnt there?
<playya> pssshhhht
<playya> bubu time
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-02-01
<rbelem> persia, ping
<zim> Hi all. Just installing UNRfor a friend are there any other themes that look lighter?
<Yerushalmi> My computer refuses to permanently enter hibernate; it goes through all of the motions preparing to hibernate but then just pops me into a blank-until-you-move-the-mouse-to-get-the-login screen. What's going on and how can I fix this?
<zim> Yerushalmi: what is your computer? some the  hibernate wont work. have you tryed suspend?
<Yerushalmi> Suspend works fine. I have an Eee PC
<Yerushalmi> My pm-suspend.log file makes it clear the computer's going all the way into hibernate and popping out again instantly
<zim> sorry no idea?
<Yerushalmi> :(
<Yerushalmi> zim: Well, perhaps you can help with something else?
<Yerushalmi> A lot of times various windows pop up too tall for my monitor
<Yerushalmi> For instance, the Palimpsest Disk Utility, a lot of times some of the options or confirm buttons are simply too long for the screen
<Yerushalmi> I've had to add a display icon to the top so I can quickly change the monitor orientation, hold the computer sideways, select the options that I need, then change it back :p
<Yerushalmi> Anyway I can fix this?
<zim1> sorry interweb droped :)
<zim1> fire away
<Yerushalmi> zim1: welcome back. Did you see my other question?
<Yerushalmi> guess not :p
<Yerushalmi> A lot of times various windows pop up too tall for my monitor
<Yerushalmi> For instance, the Palimpsest Disk Utility, a lot of times some of the options or confirm buttons are simply too long for the screen
<Yerushalmi> I've had to add a display icon to the top so I can quickly change the monitor orientation, hold the computer sideways, select the options that I need, then change it back :p
<Yerushalmi> Any way I can fix this?
<zim1> The problem is loads of software is written for bigger screens :(
<zim1> poke the devs
<Yerushalmi> Heh. But there's no way to push a window higher than the top of the screen so I can see what's stuck below the bottom?
<Yerushalmi> Or to add some sort of scroll?
<zim1> dont think so and (am new to UNR) but it looks like all apps are in tabs so you cant resize/move the window
<Yerushalmi> *nod*
<Yerushalmi> *sigh* This hibernate thing is really irritating me, though
<zim1> with standard gnome you would hold down alt 
<Yerushalmi> Ah! I can do that?
<Yerushalmi> *checks it out*
<Yerushalmi> Awesome!
<Yerushalmi> Thanks!
<Yerushalmi> That's one of three problems solved.
<zim1> kewl
<Yerushalmi> So, third question
<Yerushalmi> Somehow, and I don't know how, my date and time and power menus have found themselves to the left of instead of to the right of the battery, wireless, audio, and display icons.
<zim1> fire away
<Yerushalmi> How do I rearrange them back?
<zim1> look for a || that is dotted can you see it?
<zim1> Q 4 you
<zim1> are there any other themes I can use in UNR my friend is not going to like ubuntu brown :)
<Yerushalmi> A what that is dotted? I don't know where I'm looking.
<Yerushalmi> (And I know nothing about themes or anything - I've only had ubuntu for two weeks)
<zim1> on the top bar right click untick lock to panel move stuff about
<Yerushalmi> Cool, okay, I can get it to move around, but it still won't let me move them to the right of the 
<Yerushalmi> *to the right of the icons.
<zim1> try move icons to the left
<Yerushalmi> That was my obvious thought, but the icons don't have lock to panel or move buttons when I right click them
<zim1> sorry no idea then
<zim1> is there a remote desktop for UNR?
<Yerushalmi> Hehe. Thanks anyways.
<Yerushalmi> Even if there was, the computer's not connected to the net right now.
<zim1> no for my comp
<Yerushalmi> Oh, lol
<Yerushalmi> Thanks, zim :)
<zim1> I am setting it up for a freind who will be on the phone in 5 min with HOW ......
<rbelem> asac, ian_brasil, persia http://public.me.com/alexis.menard
<rbelem> take a look in this video
<rbelem> :-)
<rbelem> asac, r u there?
<zim1> Hi all. How can I add/remove folders from the Files & Folders Menu ?
<zim1> hello world anyone in?
<lool> I don't think that's configurable
<lool> You would need to rebuild the launcher
<lool> But I think your gtk bookmarks should appear there IIRC
<zim1> lool: many thanks. :(
<zim1> lool: Ty Bookmark worked :)
<asac> rbelem: we are at platform sprint
<asac> so not as responsive atm
<rbelem> asac, np :-)
<rbelem> asac, i talked to the maintainer
<rbelem> asac, and there are some changes that i want to discuss with you and persia 
<asac> rbelem: i will try to get persia in here when i see him
<rbelem> asac, ok :-)
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-02-02
<persia> rbelem: Which changes?
<mezquitale> anyone knows how to login to an ssh server using a private key?
<persia> mezquitale: I just use `ssh ${SERVER}` from a user with a private key in .ssh
<persia> Err, .ssh/
<mezquitale> persia, i mean what client will allow me to log in to the ssh server using a mobile phone?
<persia> I use open-ssh.
<persia> Err, openssh.
<persia> Technically, openssh-client
<persia> But it really depends on what you call a "phone" :)
<mezquitale> persia, i have a phone with windows mobile 6.1, i have an open ssh server
<persia> Can't tell you anything about windows mobile.  Maybe someone else?
<mezquitale> persia, thanks either way, is there another channel for mobile devices?
<persia> I don't know of one.  This channel is about running ubuntu on mobile devices.  Maybe the folk in #ubuntu can suggest where you might get information on using non-Ubuntu mobile devices to access Ubuntu.
<mezquitale> what a jad file?
<mezquitale> what's a jad file i mean
<persia> A jad file?
<ian_brasil> mezquitale, it is a java application deployment file
<mezquitale> ian_brasil, you think that file will install an app in my windows mobile or should I use a jar file?
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-02-03
<TheOne> hi, does anyone knows the ubuntu launchpad project ubudroid ?
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-02-06
<Yerushalmi> Hey folks. Is anybody available to help me figure out why I can't hibernate?
