#edubuntu 2006-02-13
<farhood> I need help
<farhood> hello 
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<Lord_Athur> hi
<mhz> jsgotangco: ping
<jsgotangco> hi
<PWEB> hi
<PWEB> is there a way to put edubuntu over ubuntu?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
<jsgotangco> sudo apt-get install edubuntu-server
<jsgotangco> sudo apt-get install edubuntu-artwork
<jsgotangco> well there are a couple of packages but edubuntu-desktop would do for desktop use :)
<PWEB> where do i apt-get from (the edubuntu cd?)
<jsgotangco> no from the network
<jsgotangco> they're all in main
<PWEB> how? (1st day on linux....);)
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> open up synaptic
<PWEB> ok
<PWEB> opened
<jsgotangco> search for "edubuntu"
<jsgotangco> it should give you results
<jsgotangco> then just select edubuntu-desktop
<jsgotangco> the click apply
<PWEB> u rock! -- some reason that didnt work putting kubuntu over ubuntu
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> kubuntu-desktop
<jsgotangco> :)
<PWEB> yep it wasnt there
<jsgotangco> oh?
<jsgotangco> KGG Marvin Pascual? Sounds good to me!
<jsgotangco> err
<jsgotangco> sorry
<PWEB> i insted it from the iso - extracted the iso to a folder -- cd'ed to it and inst'ed from there
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> you can get it from the network though
<jsgotangco> not sure how to update from another cd
<PWEB> now i will select edubuntu when i login to ubuntu right?
<jsgotangco> nahhh
<jsgotangco> edubuntu-desktop installs the edubuntu package but still uses ubuntu core components
<PWEB> b/c thats what i do w/ kubuntu
<PWEB> login and select it
<PWEB> well, select it and login
<jsgotangco> edubuntu is stll gnome
<jsgotangco> with just different artwork
<PWEB> oh -- will it overide my ubuntu?
<jsgotangco> edubuntu is still ubuntu
<jsgotangco> both use gnome
<jsgotangco> when you log into gnome again, you'll see some added applications
<jsgotangco> like the kdedu apps
<PWEB> but this will have the education KDE too;ls
<PWEB> right
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> gcompris, tuxmath, etc.
<PWEB> will i login to ubuntu or gnome
<jsgotangco> its the same
<jsgotangco> there's no ubuntu login
<jsgotangco> its either gnome or another DE installed
<PWEB> oh right
<PWEB> it says Last -- not ubuntu
<PWEB> got confused
<PWEB> ever use linspire?
<jsgotangco> well not lately
<PWEB> oh
<jsgotangco> i hear its pretty good
<PWEB> can you play half life on linux?
<jsgotangco> haven't tried
<jsgotangco> you can try #ubuntu 
<PWEB> lol doubt it
<jsgotangco> you can ask at #ubuntu though
<PWEB> ok
<jsgotangco> you'll probably get better replies there because that is more of a user channel comapred here
<PWEB> lol IRC is a funny thing!
<PWEB> linux is so fast compared to the clunky windows im used to
<PWEB> thanks again
<mhz_ZZzz> JaneW: hi there
<mhz_ZZzz> JaneW: do we have meeting in 6.5 hours?
<jsgotangco> should be
<mhz> okis, jsgotangco again. :D
<JaneW> hi mhz
<JaneW> yes meeting day today
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<Bart11> hello ppl...
<Bart11> i just installed edubuntu... i did not promt me for the root pass. what is the deafult root pass?
<highvoltage> Bart11: there's not a root password
<highvoltage> Bart11: the first user you created is sudo-root
<highvoltage> so you can type "sudo command" to excecute something as root
<highvoltage> if you want a root shell, type "sudo -s"
<highvoltage> it will then prompt you for your password
<Bart11> ok...
<Bart11> ill try that now
<Bart11> thanx... how can i change the root pass? sorry i'm a noob.. just installed this to get my daughter to play with gcompris
<Kaiser_Away> don't enable root
<highvoltage> Bart11: Kamping_kaiser is right, it's best not to enable root, edubuntu is just not designed that way :)
<highvoltage> using sudo you can do everything you can with root
<highvoltage> -but
<highvoltage> to answer your question, if you really, really want a root account, you can do a "sudo passwd root", but don't do that!
<Bart11> y?
<highvoltage> some things break
<Bart11> oh ok
<highvoltage> for instance, if you boot into the rescue mode, it's supposed to drop you into a root shell
<highvoltage> but if you set a root password, and forget it, it's a bit more difficult to get into single user mode to reset it
<Bart11> ah ok... thanx
<highvoltage> that's one problem we've had with a school before
<highvoltage> but generally it's always good to use a system as it is intended to be used :)
<Bart11> i have another problem... i ahve a 15 inch aoc monitor and i can't get a resolution higher than 800x600 how can i fix this?
<Bart11> i'd like to atleast have a resolution of 1024x768
<Kamping_kaiser> Bart11: you have to run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<Kamping_kaiser> that should be able to fix it
<Bart11> ill have to run that in sudo root in a terminal right?
<Kamping_kaiser> yeh
<Kamping_kaiser> you have to run sudo in a terminal
<Bart11> ok.. i'll do that now.
<ogra> Bart11, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/RootSudo
<ogra> :)
<ogra> there is no problem in enabling root on edubuntu, just keep in mind that all gui tools that ask for the password still use sudo... it can get very confusing to enable root through this, but does no harm to the system ...
<TOZII> Is there any certain amount of hard disk space that we should have per account with edubuntu?
<signifer123> no...not really...
<signifer123> but you can limit the size of a users file qith the quota tool
<signifer123> with*
<TOZII> We're gonna have 1 server, 10 nodes, 50 accounts, and a RAID array of 8 18 Gb drives....
<TOZII> Do we have enough space?
<signifer123> for storing student files?
<TOZII> Yes.
<signifer123> just documents and other simple things or larger things like raw graphics
<signifer123> ?
<signifer123> actually nvm
<signifer123> thats plenty of space
<TOZII> Some image editing, documents, Newsletter files, homework, etc....
<signifer123> thats nearly 3 gigs per student
<signifer123> its fine
<TOZII> I'm a noob, I thoght RAIDS were redundant.
<signifer123> what kind of RAID you have?
<TOZII> I dunno.
<TOZII> I know that it's external.
<signifer123> i don't now much about raids..either...
<signifer123> so you really have 1.5 gigs per student since the other 1.5 is backup
<TOZII> I'm studying up now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID
<signifer123> :)
<signifer123> so having a raid doesn't tell you much, since theres like 12 types :-P
<Bart11> kamping_kaiser: does edubunto have a gui for setting up the xserver like mandrake and suse?
<ogra> nope
<signifer123> not a very pretty one
<Kamping_kaiser> Bart11: not in the way you think
<Kamping_kaiser> dpkg is the gui :)
<ogra> its done fully automatic ... normally you dont need to touch the X config at all
<signifer123> yeah ^^
<ogra> raed this as in 99.5% you wont touch it ...
<Bart11> i has my screen size limited to 800x600 and i want it to be 1024x768, is there an easy way to do taht?
<Bart11> taht
<Bart11> that
<ogra> on a thin client ? 
<ogra> or do you use the workstation version ...
<Bart11> i installed the workstation, its just for my kid
<ogra> then run: sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg 
<ogra> the values in there are the detected ones, so just hit enter until you come to the mode selection
<signifer123> hit enter till the end where you select the dispaly mode :)
<signifer123> aww...
<signifer123> beat me
<Bart11> i did and now my xserver wont work. i just formatted my hd and reinstalling now
<signifer123> ohh....kinda weird...
<signifer123> ogra: does adding them to xorg.conf actually work?
<Bart11> yeah, i tried mandrake 9 on that pc and i had no problem with the settings anfter install.
<ogra> signifer123, yes, but you have to do some tweaks if you want to be able to use dpkg then ...
<signifer123> ok.
<jsgotangco> see you guys later in the meeting
<jsgotangco> ciao
<signifer123> cya
<TOZII> The meeting will be in this channel?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> in #ubuntu-meeting
<Bart11> does ubuntu have some problems with built-in video cards by via?
<signifer123> i think it jsut underestimates alot of cards...it topped mine off at 1024x768
<signifer123> i tihnk it sticks all built ins at 640x480 though
<Bart11> ubunto uses xorg, not xfree86?
<signifer123> yeah...
<Kamping_kaiser> built ins you probably have to put aside system memory, so it gets a low res (well, there's my theory to start with)
<Bart11> yeah it shares 8 mb from system mem. have 256mb installed, had no problems with it, using mandrake 9 and 10.1 using xfree86, maybe its an xorg thing?
<TOZII> MEETING: 08 Feb at 12:00 UTC
<TOZII> What is UTC
<TOZII> ?
<juliux> TOZII, date -u
<juliux> TOZII, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utc
<TOZII> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time
<TOZII> lol!
<TOZII> thanx.
<juliux> np
<Kamping_kaiser> Bart11: maybe. it's probably not setting aside enough memory
<Bart11> ok
<Bart11> how do you set up grub so that it sets my other os to be the default? it is the pc on my mums table... hehhe
<Bart11> can i set it up so it automatically login?
<signifer123> mingetty
<signifer123> yeah
<TOZII> 08 Feb at 12:00 UTC is 1.5 hours from now?
<juliux> TOZII, yes
<Bart11> how do you set up grub so that it sets my other os to be the default? it is the pc on my mums table... hehhe
<Bart11> how can i set it up so it automatically logs-in?
<signifer123> System>Admin>Login Screen
<signifer123> then chekc automatic login on the first page
<signifer123> and choose the user
<signifer123> check*
<signifer123> and for the other os as defualt
<signifer123> /boot/grub/menu.lst 
<signifer123> back that up
<signifer123> thne in there there will be something like
<signifer123> color white/blue black/light-gray
<signifer123> default 1
<signifer123> timeout 10
<signifer123> change the default
<signifer123> to the list number of the OS you want it to boot to
<Bart11> ok thanx
<signifer123> TOZ you cna set the resultion in xorg.conf
<signifer123> it jsut won't work if it over guesses your monitor
<TOZII> lol! My rez is set just right.
<Bart11> where you from signifer123?
<Bart11> where can i find xorg.conf?
<juliux> /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<ogra> /etc/X11
<Bart11> k
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Dev Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in +- 75 minutes
<signifer123> USA
<signifer123> and i cannot goto meeting g2g before then :(
<signifer123> where are the logs upped to?
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<signifer123> thanks'
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Dev Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in +- 30 minutes
<Kamping_Kaiser> ty
<Bart11> who can jin the meeting??
<Bart11> join..
<ogra> everybody, its open 
<spacey> Bart11: its about the progress of development/documentation/stuff like that of the next release
<spacey> i have to go to school first, i'll try to be back on time. bbl
<Bart11> ok.. thanx
<Bart11> hey thanx for all the help, got everything configured ok
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Dev Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in +- 10 minutes
<mhz> Yagisan: hey!!
<Yagisan> G'day mhz
<mhz> Yagisan: hey!! hoo!!  hey!!  hoo!! (sound a bit hip hop)
* Yagisan shoots mhz
<Yagisan> mhz: this is a hip hop free zone
<juliux> realy?
<Yagisan> no, but even I a native speaker can't understand what they say
<mhz> Yagisan: lol
<mhz> Yagisan: i personally dislike: reggeton and hip hop
<mhz> (very much!)
<mhz> but... just put your hands in the air and say "hey   hoo   hey hoo.." :D
<Yagisan> heh. so why the good mood ? score a nice fat contract ?
<mhz> Yagisan: boooh, now I lost the mood...nope, no contract. Just good to see ya
<Yagisan> mhz: It's good to see you too
<Yagisan> mhz: finally starting to get my website translated
<mhz> cool!
<Yagisan> mhz: yep :) do you have CJK fonts installed ?
<mhz> no idea
<mhz> nope
<mhz> i dont
<Yagisan> mhz: k. http://eyagi.bpa.nu/eyagi/our-services/small-business-system-health-check?set_language=en (english, click the japanese flag to change)
<Yagisan> mhz: all I need now is spanish ;)
<mhz> lol
<mhz> i knew this was not gonna be easy :D
<Yagisan> mhz: yeah, my wife had some trouble with it
<Yagisan> mhz: like, every I.T related term. It's rather hard to explain that to a non-I.T person, then get it correctly translated
<Yagisan> mhz: she deserves a medal or something
<mhz> sure! do give it to her
<Yagisan> so mhz, can I interest you in a service ;)
<mhz> Yagisan: sure, Yagisan I can do ant work (a couple of paragrapsh every other day basis)
* mhz has also started translating this way for TheOpenCd project, ubuntu-cl.org wiki needs his love too, and I am getting material to write a book about Edubuntu :)
<Yagisan> mhz: that was a nice little system I build out of an ubuntu box. BTW does the website seem slow to you ?
<Yagisan> mhz: a book ?
<Yagisan> mhz: I like books. they still work in power outages :)
<Yagisan> mhz: TheOpenCd - that's the one with OSS apps for Windows right ?\
<mhz> yuyp
<Yagisan> mhz: cool. I'm remastering Windows cd's now. putting on services packs, hotfixes, new drivers, and a selection of OSS apps
<Yagisan> mhz: If I knew how, I'd also add ubuntu to it and put it on dvd
<mhz> ohhh
<mhz> why?
<Yagisan> mhz: need it for the customers. I find it funny that I know more about re,atering windows cd's then ubuntu ones
<Yagisan> mhz: besides, I can fit all Win2K,XP,3K on 1 cd
<mhz> lol
<Yagisan> mhz: I kid you not !!! they are almost identical. all you need to do is hard link the files that are identical
<mhz> oooohhhh
<Yagisan> mhz: And yet they charge $300AU for an update ?? almost nothing changes, it's unbelievable. still, I can start the migration to linux based systems by putting the OSS apps there on install
<Yagisan> mhz: and when I figure out how to add ubuntu, I can literally show them there is almost no difference
* Yagisan wishes we had a live ltsp version of ubuntu/edubuntu
<Yagisan> just boot one system up as the server, then boot the clients from the net
<ogra> Yagisan, try the performance on a liveCD
<ogra> (you can install it after boot)
<Yagisan> I just want something to demo to customers on their systems. <at least until the gods are happy and I can have a laptop>
<Yagisan> I've been trying to push Windows -> Ubuntu migrations lately, but I find a lot of inertia. A systemwide wine install might help get some more converts - so they can still run their expensive not-yet-replaceable-by-ubuntu app
<mhz> Yagisan: how much could you afford for a laptop?
<Yagisan> mhz: right now, nothing. My recent illness and my wifes injury made income 0 for two weeks, and my daughters birthday is on the 20th
<mhz> ooooohhh!
<mhz> gee!
* mhz will have a mokkaccino and a piece of JaneW 's cake, please
<highvoltage> cake?
<highvoltage> did I mention it's my birthday today and I haven't had cake yet!?
* highvoltage gets sucked back into work
<mhz> highvoltage: HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!! 
<mhz> \o\  \o/  /o/  !!!!
<mhz> highvoltage: (those were cheers and hugs)
<highvoltage> mhz: thanks!
<Yagisan> highvoltage: happy birthday. How old are you now ?
<ogra> highvoltage, hey so you are 8 days ahead of me :)
<ogra> HAPPY BIRTHDAY
<highvoltage> Yagisan: i tell people that i'm 29, but i'm 24 :)
<highvoltage> ogra: thanks, yay, another aquarius!
<Yagisan> mhz: good, I though it was you drunk at the party :)
<mhz> lol
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage, old guy
<jsgotangco> happy birthday dude
<highvoltage> okay, /me seriously need to go now, wish i could chat, l8r!
<highvoltage> thans jerome!
<Yagisan> highvoltage: people think I'm 29-30 because I've got a wife and two kids :(
<mhz> Yagisan: nope, maybe you saw ogra around walking over a ball
* highvoltage leaves for another meeting he's 22 minutes late for
<highvoltage> Yagisan: ah
<highvoltage> bye!
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I'm only 24
<highvoltage> :)
<mhz> Yagisan: try to walk on a ball and you'll get the feeling of what I am talking baout
<mhz> about
<JaneW> heh
* JaneW will be back - errand to run...
<jsgotangco> i still want to see a doc in progress :/
<mhz> jsgotangco: lol!!!
* mhz too
<beastie_> hi all... 
<jsgotangco> beastie_, yo
<jsgotangco> mhz, i'm really screaming for translations now...
<beastie_> does edubuntu login authentication via ldap server ?
<jsgotangco> anything outside the current toolchain can be hard for translations
<beastie_> does it support pam_ldap ?
<mhz> jsgotangco: sorry, could you rephrase?
<mhz> beastie_: no idea... but...ig gnulinux supports it... then yes, whyt not?
<mhz> OR, you mean LTSP?
<beastie_> not ltsp..just authenticate via ldap service
<mhz> jsgotangco: sorry, could you rephrase?
<zakame> I believe beastie_ means if edubuntu can be configured as an LDAP directory server
<jsgotangco> mhz, doing things in docbook makes it easier for us to create translation templates based the gnome toolchain
<ogra> sure, slapd is in universe pam_ldap should be supported 
<ogra> but you need to configure it manually
<mhz> zakame: oh, then my answer was 'correct' considering the typos ;)
<ogra> we dont focus beyond a single classroom server yet ... so there is no need for ldap
<mhz> jsgotangco: oh, i guess you are right
<ogra> it will be available with a default setup once we grow to school size
<zakame> mhz: well that could be a bug :)
<jsgotangco> ogra, would an am64 build work fine for now?
* jsgotangco about to download
<mhz> jsgotangco: and one of my 1st to do's once I have collected the info I need for edubuntu book is to learn docbook (though I had high hopes of using Moin platform :(  )
<ogra> jsgotangco, no idea i didnt test CDs since 2 weeks ...
<mhz> zakame: ;p
<jsgotangco> cheers =)
<ogra> jsgotangco, but if you download the iso now, you can very quick rsync it later ;)
<jsgotangco> ok
<beastie_> thanks mhz... i will try edubuntu.. talk to you later..
<ogra> (for me it takes <20min for a daily)
<mhz> beastie_: hehe, i used ldap once.... long ago
<jsgotangco> mine takes longer but tolerable < 40min
<mhz> I hardly remember the set up
<jsgotangco> mhz, do you know this? http://www.lalescu.ro/liviu/fet/
* mhz tabbing after getting rid of a stupid punk in #xfce that has sent me to RTFM with emphasis
<jsgotangco> im going to rest my eyes first and just come back in 2 hours
<jsgotangco> brb
<mhz> nap well
<mhz> jsgotangco: nice tip, I'll read about it. I used to know gtablix
<mhz> neurogeek: hi there!
<mhz> neurogeek: any ideas how I can contact your 'boss' in IRC ?
<JaneW> .
<neurogeek> mhz, EHLO.. how are you doing?
<neurogeek> not much chance to do that
<neurogeek> mhz, strusberg AT latinux DOT org
<mhz> neurogeek: ooooh :(
<mhz> okis
<mhz> neurogeek: any news on python favor?
<neurogeek> mhz, not much going on right now. We should be going to PyCon in two weeks :D
<neurogeek> but i've been soo overwhelmed by work this last couple of weeks, i've got little time to do anything else
<neurogeek> :S
<ogra> JaneW, stop talking in such long sentences :P
<JaneW> ogra: heh
<spacey> ogra: 
<spacey> you
<spacey> prefer 
<spacey> to read
<spacey> vertical?:P
<ogra> some
<ogra> times
<ogra> i
<ogra> do
<ogra> ,
<ogra> yes
<spacey> :p
<mhz> lol
<Yagisan> I
<Yagisan> p
<Yagisan> r
<Yagisan> e
<Yagisan> f
<Yagisan> e
<Yagisan> r
<mhz> .oO(things you can do when you have lots of free time :D )
<JaneW> ro
<JaneW> sdrawkcab
<mhz> read only ?
<Yagisan> to be more space conscious myself
<Yagisan> I could see so many more rooms if it was all vertical text
<ogra> mhz, probably an anagram
<Yagisan> or backwards
<mhz> lol
<Yagisan> pfft - that's how I read all government forms
<Yagisan> and they think I can't see what they are reading
* Yagisan sighs. Working with Windows is soul destroying
<Yagisan> night all
<mhz> brb
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<flint> ogra, ollie, you twitching out there as the sun sets?
<ogra> ??
<thefamousnomo> hello people, is anyone there today?
<thefamousnomo> awwwwww, come on!
<thefamousnomo> anyone.......?
<ogra> thefamousnomo, *
<thefamousnomo> orga!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
<thefamousnomo> i nearly gave up!
<ogra> so whats your prob ? 
<thefamousnomo> not getting any sound in some of the gcompris activities!
<thefamousnomo> is this an issue?
<ogra> thats breezy or dapper ? 
<thefamousnomo> breezy my friend
<ogra> and do you have the appropriate gcompris sounds installed for your language ? 
<thefamousnomo> desktop sounds fine, tuxpaint fine, just the point & click activities!
<thefamousnomo> not sure, how to do?
<thefamousnomo> i am able to switch on sound and music, from tick to cross...
<thefamousnomo> and back...
<ogra> open synaptic and look if the gcompris-sound-** package for your language is installed
<ogra> if not, install it and it should work fine
<thefamousnomo> machine for my son is not on network, any way to do this without shifting machine?
<ogra> first just take a look if its installed ...
<ogra> (requires no network)
<thefamousnomo> sorry man, will do, brb. thanks ogra!
<thefamousnomo> yeah got that man, gcompris-sound-en is installed ogra
<ogra> hmm, then it should work ....
<thefamousnomo> specifically the sounds on 'click on the orange toon' activity, hes only 3!
<thefamousnomo> hoping to start early... need sound to keep his attention!
<ogra> yes, i understand ...
<thefamousnomo> as i say, tuxpaint is fine and machine in general: fine.
<ogra> can you run gcompros from a terminal and look if any errors show up ?
<thefamousnomo> bear with me...
<thefamousnomo> a few warnings man, its in the other room...
<thefamousnomo> says no audio device
<ogra> hmm
<thefamousnomo> gnome.canvas is deprecated
<ogra> thats only a warning 
<thefamousnomo> ai is not running at full speed
<ogra> did you change anything with the sound settings ? 
<thefamousnomo> gcomris.comf set to enGB-utf8
<thefamousnomo> no man, just tried to start it up!
<thefamousnomo> all other sound is fine...
<ogra> i mean in the system ...
<ogra> not gcompris
<thefamousnomo> no, installed and here i am
<thefamousnomo> all default installation settings
<ogra> try runnning: esdctrl off 
<ogra> before starting gcompris
<thefamousnomo> ok, b back
<ogra> (do both from a termonal)
<ogra> *terminal
<thefamousnomo> no command esdctrl
<thefamousnomo> sudo esd makes a noise tho!
<ogra> hmm 
<ogra> dont run esd with sudo ...
<thefamousnomo> tried, just makes a noise
<ogra> but that it makes a noise is strange 
<thefamousnomo> its like a rapid scale, low to high!
<ogra> it should tell you that the device is already used 
<thefamousnomo> brb
<ogra> are you sure your sond is working ?
<thefamousnomo> sorry, esd (no sudo) tells me its working...
<ogra> ok
<thefamousnomo> already used as you say...
<ogra> try: killall esd 
<ogra> then try running gcompris
<thefamousnomo> brb
<mhz> ogra: i got a question ..
<mhz> ogra: my sound got suddenly broken
<mhz> how can i reconfig it?
* mhz is in breezy
* ogra sighs about all the sound problems when he is ill and wants to go to bed
<ogra> mhz, no sound at all ? 
<thefamousnomo> ogra, we have sound, stay up and have a drink!!!!
<thefamousnomo> can you explain what is going on in there?
<ogra> thefamousnomo, but you dont have sound in the rest of the desktop now
<thefamousnomo> sh*t!
<ogra> gcompris is not using esd for sound output for whatever reason 
<thefamousnomo> how to fix?
<mhz> ogra: xmms lets me hear just a second of a song and continues playing but with no sounds
<mhz> (all of sudden)
<ogra> mhz, the last time i used xmms is about 7 years ago ...
<thefamousnomo> ogra, ill catch you another night my friend, one step as they say...
<thefamousnomo> thanx for probs solved thus far!
<mhz> ogra: well, that happens also with video and firefox 
<ogra> thefamousnomo, we can write a little wrapper that stops esd if you start gcompris and starts it again afterwards
<ogra> mhz, did you fiddle with your sound settings somehow ? 
<thefamousnomo> sounds good, only done any scripting in whs(!) and php (favourite language)!
<thefamousnomo> for another night, thanx again!
<mhz> ogra: last thing I did was: rm -rf ~/.config ~/.xsession
<mhz> ogra: they should not affect sound at all
<mhz> ogra: and I rm -rf /tmp
<mhz> but then I mkdir /tmp back
<mhz> and chmod it correctly
<ogra> heh
<ogra> but you ripped off esd's pants with that ;)
<mhz> ooooh
<ogra> esd creates a socket in /tmp 
<mhz> good to know that
<ogra> so if it ran while you did that, it wont find the socket anymore
<mhz> eeek
<mhz> and how do i get it back?
<mhz> hehe, when I run 'esd' command I get bips like a modem
<mhz> :D
<mhz> for 3 secs
<ogra> just logging out and in again should solve it 
<ogra> so esd stops and starts again
<mhz> ogra: I have done that 3 times
<ogra> no idea then ...
<mhz> okis
<mhz> thx anyways
<ogra> sorry, but i feel very ill currently ... 
<mhz> ogra: man, no worries. I do understand and I was the 'xtreme-stupid'
<mhz> :)
<mhz> just get well soon
<ogra> i will, no worries 
<ogra> somehow cracked my back ...
<mhz> ask your girlfriend to make some tea and massages
<ogra> can hardly breathe 
<mhz> ogra: ooooh
<ogra> yup
<mhz> gee, log out and get a doctor then!
<ogra> i'm used to my broken back ... but normally its far lower down ...
<mhz> oooh, these geeks all have back issues
<ogra> today its a bit higher and hurts if the ribs move  ...
<mhz> so I wont make you laugh either?
<ogra> will be fine tomorrow again ... 
<ogra> better to avoid that :)
* mhz can't help feeling tempted to do so
<mhz> ogra: then please log out and get some rest
<mhz> OR maybe it's time you give a11y app. a good try :D
<ogra> jinty, !
<mhz> if we all se ogra here we'll interact with you but you should get serious rest
<ogra> jinty, is there any ETA for schooltool and zope3 to be fixed ? 
<jinty> hoy ogra!
<ogra> currently it breaks the edubuntu CDs and i dont like to take it out of the CDs ...
<jinty> yeah, sometime between the 16th and 23rd February
<ogra> phew 
<ogra> thats late ... (but still in time for feature freeze though)
<jinty> zope3 is "maybe-fixed" in unstable today...
<ogra> then i'll take it out for now ... else the CDs are not installable ...
<jinty> schooltool will just be a buxfix release of the old version that works with zope3.2
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/report.html
<ogra> its the main issue ... 
<ogra> but i'll survive with taking it out temporary
<jinty> i see, i'll ping you when it's fixed in unstable if you like
<ogra> yes !! 
<ogra> thanks a lot :)
<mhz> ogra: I tried 2 things before I logeed out for 4th time: $ esd -d /dev/dsp  AND  /etc/init.d/alsa reload
<mhz> it works now
<mhz> :D
<signifer123> good afternoon
<signifer123> grr...meeting logs isn't up :-p
<signifer123> hello again ,mhz
<mhz> hey man
<signifer123> jeeez knoppix has alot of files...
<signifer123> deos edubunt uhas a live?
#edubuntu 2006-02-14
<Lord_Athur> hi
<signifer123> hey
<kejava> anyone here familiar with the ltsp package on edubuntu?
<superseth> not i sir
<kejava> trying to get more info on the lts.conf file
<kejava> oh well, i'll #ltsp
<mhz> kejava: pong
<mhz> kejava: can you be more specific pelase ? ;)
<Chico_KDE> hahaha
<mhz> kejava: maybe I can help you but need more info
<Chico_KDE> I've to go, bye
<mhz> bytes
<kejava> sorry about that, in other forum
<kejava> i'm used to using ltsp on Slackware
<kejava> i installed regular ubuntu and then the ltsp package
<kejava> it's very diffrent from the slackware install i did before
<kejava> couldn't even find the lts.conf file
<kejava> is it even used?
<mhz> ahhh
<mhz> kejava: nope. Edubuntu LTSP is a modification of standard ltsp
<mhz> edubuntu ltsp uses ssh forwarding X
<kejava> yeah, it's surprisingly different
<kejava> was a real shocker for me
<kejava> so how do you config the terminals?  still use lts.conf?
<mhz> nope
<mhz> we use /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<kejava> omg!
<mhz> and that's pretty much what an admin should edit
<mhz> the rest is all done at the config time
<mhz> BUt
<mhz> assuming you have installed edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop
<mhz> no LTSP
<kejava> but wait, you need a way to configure the terminals.  like mouse, nfs, swap, x server, etc.  that can't be in dhcpd.conf
<kejava> what happens when you add a terminal?
<kejava> and you need to tweak monitor horizontal and vertical syncs
<mhz> kejava: ok, let's go a bit backwards
<mhz> the idea of Edubuntu team is that:
<mhz> a) a teeacher can become a kind of "lab admin"
<mhz> with almost no worries at all
<mhz> b) so he gets the cd
<mhz> c) he installs the edubuntu CD pressing enter at the boot prompt
<mhz> d) he waits and sets his network environments basics
<mhz> (ip, netmask, etc)
<mhz> e) he boots up each client and is presented with  LDM (Ltsp Display Manager)
<mhz> g) if a user exists in /etc/passwd (in server side) and is not currently logged in
<mhz> then he can login from the terminal
<mhz> and voila! it is all ssh forwarded
<mhz> so, 'everything' a user sees from terminal is actually happening at the server
<mhz> why would each monitor be set?
<kejava> thanks for the explaination but i'm aware of all of that.  already setup a network with ltsp on Slackware terminal server
<kejava> some monitors are not pnp
<kejava> not all hardware gets autodetected
<mhz> ohh, well, I did not know you knew :)
<kejava> previous versions of ltsp, you had to tell it or at least hint at what hardware was on the terminal
<kejava> no problemj :-)
<mhz> Not in Edubuntu, as we follow same exact Ubuntu principles... keep it the most user friendly as possible
<kejava> when you add a client, you edit the lts.conf file
<kejava> i see
<mhz> Of course, with a command line you can tweak everything as needed :D
<mhz> kejava: when i add a client, I edit nothing
<mhz> it is all auto dtected
<kejava> you using PXE boot roms in your NICs?
<mhz> yup, ideally
<mhz> :D
<mhz> that explains a lot?
<kejava> what about when you don't have PXE?
<kejava> you use etherboot floppies?
<mhz> oh, well, there is a howto I have not tried, and it explains boting via Floppy to get IP
<mhz> and starts the ptocess
<mhz> yup
* mhz has no floppy drives :(
<kejava> ever hear of DisklessWorkstations.com?
<kejava> i have three of their boxes, very nice to use
<kejava> not PXE version though
<kejava> also need to edit the lts.conf file for them and the other boxes on my network to function with ltsp on ubuntu
<kejava> well, thanks a lot mhz 
<kejava> better run
<Bart11> hello all!
<mhz> hi Bart11 !!
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> it is good to see such enthusiasm at the end of my tiring day
<Bart11> where you from mhz?
<mhz> Chile
<mhz> you?
<Bart11> oh ok..  it's just 11:20am here in the philippines
<Bart11> what time is is there?
<mhz> 00:19
<mhz> and I have been at the computer since 09:00 am
<mhz> :(
<Bart11> wow.. what have you been doing?? coding?
<mhz> Bart11: nope, helping some guys in a couple of IRC channels, translating stuff, doing some artwork, taking care of my daughter and house, giving love to some documents
<Bart11> that's alot of work
<mhz> yup
<mhz> but i love it
<mhz> esp, because it's for free :D
<Bart11> cool
<Bart11> hey need your opinion.. what would you recommend as min sys req for a standalone workstation?
<mhz> 'min sys req' ??
<Bart11> minimum system to run edubuntu as a stand alone workstation
<mhz> aahhh
<mhz> so for just a Desktop use?
<Bart11> yup
<mhz> 128 MB of Ram or up, 450 or 500 MHz, 4 GB
<Bart11> ok, thanx, hw about a server fr 2 thin clients, and the sys req for a thin client?
<Bart11> i'm asking coz im thinking of installing it on my kids sch.
<mhz> yup
<mhz> good idea
<mhz> well, as a server, you have to understand that it demands RAM, netwrok bandwith and HD work
<Bart11> i was thinking of just a command line server for 2 thin clients
<Bart11> i looked at their old pc and they are really old, one is a 486dx2 66, the other is like a P100, and another pc that i still have to check next week.
<mhz> server: 256 base RAM + 128 p/each client attached, at least 1 GHz
<Bart11> i'm kinda wieghing opions for them, they have around 10 -15 students only, so they dont have a budget
<mhz> clients: at least 48 MB RAM
<mhz> ideally, NIC's supporting PXE
<mhz> however you can use floppies to boot
<Bart11> ok,, thanx for the input
<Bart11> i think i'll just get them to get 2 old pc as standalone workstations... thanx
<Bart11> i can get away with a 3.2gb hd ryt?
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> yup, why not
<Bart11> thanx...
<mhz> yw
<Bart11> 128 ram and 450mhz and 3.2gb, thanx
* jsgotangco starts edubuntu amd64 test
<Bart11> hello kamping_kaiser, thanx for the help yesterday
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi Bart11, hows it going now?
<Kamping_Kaiser> no worries, btw
<Bart11> its great my kid liked it
<Kamping_Kaiser> cool :)
<Bart11> i fixed the resulution by editing the xorg.config file manulally so it's at 1024x768 now
<Bart11> i'll check out my kids sch pc's next week if i can install it on their pcs
<Kamping_Kaiser> gcompris? or edubuntu?
<Bart11> edubuntu
<Kamping_Kaiser> how do you find it (i havent looked at it yet)
<Bart11> it's at /etc/x11/xorg.conf
<Bart11> another guy help me yesterday
<Kamping_Kaiser> nah, it=edubuntu ;)
<TOZTWO> WOOHOO! I get my Lab parts on Friday!
<TOZTWO> $530 from the computer junk yard.
<Bart11> its in edubuntu.org
<Kamping_Kaiser> TOZTWO: :)
<TOZTWO> I'm gonna have 8 nodes in the lab, 2 nodes outside for when people have to work on something, but we're having class, 1 node in Bishop's office, and 1 node in the conference room for presentaions.
<TOZTWO> I got PII 400s for $15 each!
<Bart11> lucky for you toztwo
<Bart11> kamping_kaiser: u havn't gotten edubuntu yet?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Bart11: no.
<Bart11> it's nice
<TOZTWO> I just discoverd the computer recycle guy, and he's been here for 5 years already.
<Bart11> where you from toztwo?
<TOZTWO> He's got a big warehouse full of old der systems.
<TOZTWO> Texas.
<Bart11> $15 for an entire cpu?
* Kamping_Kaiser clicks download (i keep forgetting)
<TOZTWO> $15 for PII systems.
<Bart11> proc/mb/ram/hd/case/ps??
<TOZTWO> Monitor, keyboard mouse, VGA card, Sound card......
<Bart11> wish there are places like that here in the phils
<TOZTWO> PII 400-450(Couple of PIIIs), 32 Mb RAM, CDROM, Floppy, even the HDs, because it's too much trouble to take them out....
<ogra> TOZTWO, you'll need more ram
<Bart11> do you think he can ship it to the phils if i ordered?
<ogra> ubuntu ltsp needs 64MB minimum
<Bart11> but he has ram for sale too?
<TOZTWO> Uh-oh!
<ogra> (not true, 48MB work (kindof) but 64MB is recommended)
<TOZTWO> 32 megs are cheap.
<TOZTWO> He's got boxes of them.
<TOZTWO> I might get 12 sticks for $15.
<jsgotangco> ogra, are we still using gartoon?
<Bart11> does he have a website? can you give me his contact details? i have a 2nd cuz there in texas
<ogra> jsgotangco, for the young theme, yes ...
<jsgotangco> gartoon's not the default then?
<ogra> we have already the ability to switch between 3 themes in edubuntu-artwork, but there is no artwork yet
<TOZTWO> Bart11, No web site yet, he barely stays afloat, but I'll get the phone number for you. 
<ogra> nope, i wanted to make the mid age the default ... no idea which icon theme we'll choose for this ... i think gnome default
<jsgotangco> ok thanks
<Bart11> toztwo, thanx...
<Bart11> toztwo, his address would be nice too...
<TOZTWO> His name is Jonathan Harris, the company is Harris Distribution LLC. Temple Texas.
<TOZTWO> brb
<ogra> jsgotangco, we'll get professional artwork for the default theme ... i havent seen anything of it yet (silbs job)
<jsgotangco> okay
<TOZTWO> Whoa! He does have a website.!
<TOZTWO> http://www.hdg-llc.com/services
<Bart11> hello jsgotangco, ur from teh phils right?
<TOZTWO> http://www.hdg-llc.com/contact_us
<jsgotangco> Bart11, hi
<jsgotangco> Bart11, as well as zakame 
<Bart11> cool
<Bart11> do you know a good place to get cheap surplus pcs??
<jsgotangco> HMR
<zakame> Bart11: there's HMR at mandaluyong
<Bart11> i've been there it still is quite steep
<Bart11> toztwo: thanx
<jsgotangco> i dunno any place cheaper than that
<Bart11> ok thanx
<TOZTWO> According to the website, they've been there three years.
<Bart11> thanx toztwo
<TOZTWO> Harris' dad worked at L3 coding and just started working at the shop, I guess he's started working on the website.
<TOZTWO> "Until October of 2002, my son, Jonathan and I began discussing the task of building a family business."
<Bart11> cool
<Bart11> i'll ask my cuz if she can get me some and send it by mail
<TOZTWO> She's from a local city?
<jsgotangco> JaneW, don't remove kdedu!
<jsgotangco> don't push to remove rather
<Bart11> nt really sure where she lives, i'll mail her later
<ogra> jsgotangco, she isnt, i am
<JaneW> heh
<jsgotangco> :/
<JaneW> it seems to make sense
<JaneW> esp from a sizing perspective and ppl ask questions about it
<JaneW> like why we on Gnome if the apps are all KDE etc...
<ogra> jsgotangco, 1-200MB CD space for 5 apps is not really making sense
<Bart11> what's kdedu?
<jsgotangco> oh well you're the engineer :/
<ogra> jsgotangco, it wont be dropped in dapper, but its one of my targets for dapper+1 to find sane replacements for most of the stuff
<jsgotangco> yeah
<TOZTWO> I've been thinking abot the Gnome + KDE duality also.
<TOZTWO> Can the apps be ported?
<ogra> jsgotangco, as i said in the meeting yesterday, ppc and amd64 are constantly breaking
<ogra> nope
<ogra> sadly not
<ogra> but there are replacements for most of them ...
<ogra> they are lacking features the KDE ones have though
<jsgotangco> it'll need an inclusion report though
<TOZTWO> So GPeriodic is not a port of Kalzium?
<TOZTWO> Wow!
<ogra> gperiodic is a tool on its own
<TOZTWO> Now that I look at them side by side, I see that GPeriodic needs some work.
<ogra> yup
<ogra> its fine for the task, but lacks some of the cool features kalzium has
<ogra> (i.e. the timeline stuff to see when which element was discovered is a very noteable one)
<TOZTWO> qt and gtk are very different from each other? So that the apps wopuld be hard to port?
* Kamping_Kaiser discovers hes not on the edubuntu email list - but im *sure* i joined it :/
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh,m i have joined it :/
<Kamping_Kaiser> but i havent got any email from it
<TOZTWO> (My favorite Kalzium feature is the temperature slider)
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, pretty low traffic ...
<ogra> make some noise if you like ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> ;) *emails asking howto install wi8ndows on the thin client*
<Bart11> hey guyz, kinda noob, just like to ask y did edubuntu go for gnome rather than kde?
<TOZTWO> Ubuntu uses Gnome, edubuntu is based on ubuntu.
<ogra> because gnome takes about 20MB less memory for ltsp on the desktop ... its the default in ubuntu and we have the backing of the whole ubuntu team for it
<Bart11> oh ok, so kde is more resource hungry then?
<ogra> if we had gone for KDE, the ltsp server would have to be a bit bigger (memory wise) and KDE has only one developer working on it (as edubuntu has)
<Kamping_Kaiser> <3 Gnome
<ogra> additionally i dont know much about KDE programming ... would give me a hard time to care for it here :)
<Bart11> hey ogra, where you from?
<ogra> germany
<Bart11> cool
<Bart11> just out of curiousity, is janeW the only female here??
<ogra> dunno, the others hide behind their nicks :)
<Bart11> hahahha
<JaneW> I think others pop in from time to time
<JaneW> but it's hard to tell
* jsgotangco would rather keep it a secret
<JaneW> there were a few females teachers here a while ago
<JaneW> and that troll - but that was prolly a male
<ogra> jsgotangco, so you are secretly femaleish ? 
<Bart11> ic
<ogra> ;)
<jsgotangco> bwahaha
<Kamping_Kaiser> it could be JanEW, so a bloke ;)
<TOZchic> Where did I leave my skirt?
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<ogra> heh
<JaneW> yes I am a male
<jsgotangco> i actually use edubuntu to lure the younger population
<JaneW> ask ogra
<ogra> LOL
<jsgotangco> ok that didn't sound good
* Kamping_Kaiser tries to bite back an email to ubuntu-devel about tip of the day rubish
<JaneW> jsgotangco: sis!
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
* JaneW is always 'one of the guys' 
<Bart11> btw guyz and gals behind the dev, great job on edubuntu, i'll spread the word. my kid likes it, and i'll probably give a demo on her school next wek or so
<Bart11> week
<jsgotangco> cool
<TOZII> Bart11, it's aprivate school?
<Bart11> yup
<Bart11> but is quite a small school, 10 to 15 students
<TOZII> I used to work at a Charter school, and they wouldn't let me do anything.
<jsgotangco> 10, 15, 20, doesn't matter
<jsgotangco> spread the love
<TOZII> Public schools are works.
<TOZII> works = worse.
<TOZII> I'm promoting to churches.
<Bart11> hey jane, ur in africa, right?
<JaneW> Bart11: awesome
<JaneW> Bart11: how's Homer?
<JaneW> Bart11: yup... Cape Town to be exact
<jsgotangco> Homer?
<Bart11> he's quite fine, jsut drunk in the sofa wathcning tv... hhhe
<JaneW> Bart11: heh
<ogra> giggle
* TOZII is drunk at the keyboard
<Bart11> ;-)
<Bart11> janeW: got some slogans or posters that i can use??
<JaneW> yeah 'save the whales!'
<JaneW> 'Don't do drugs'
<Bart11> i'll got to my old shchool next month and show it them, the sys admin is a close friend of mine
<Bart11> i mean fro edubuntu... hehhehe
<JaneW> seriusly we don;t yet have edubuntu branded promo material
<Bart11> oh ok.
<jsgotangco> JaneW, i can be your poster boy
<JaneW> we d have this... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing
<JaneW> what the hell is wrong with my typing today? It's usually bad, but not THIS bad...
<Bart11> thanx jane
<TOZII> Will Breezy update to Dapper?
<JaneW> what do you mean? Can you upgrade from one to the other? Yes.
<ogra> sure
<TOZII> I mean without reinstalling.
<TOZII> You would upgrade just like with the critical updates?
<ogra> i'm not yet sure if you have to recreate the thin client chroot or not ... i'll do my best to preserve the upgrade path here (would be only one command anyway) but the changes are pretty heavy ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> TOZII: it basicly reinstalls your sytem, but it does it keeping all your settings and the same applictions
<ogra> the distro itself will be flawless to upgrade ...
* jsgotangco crosses fingers
<TOZII> If dapper has Gimpshop rather than Gimp, and I update Breezy......    ?
<ogra> jsgotangco, no need to :)
<ogra> dapper doesnt have gimpshop 
* jsgotangco crosses fingers of family
<jsgotangco> gimpshops a hack
<TOZII> But easier for n00bz
<ogra> and if dapper would have gimpshop, there are ways to tell the system that its a replacement for gimp ...
<ogra> dont worry 
<TOZII> I just didn't want to recreate 50 accounts, and/or backup and restore.
<ogra> the only worrying bit is the thin client nfs root ... i removed so many things to make it less memory hungry and boot faster that it might be necessary to rm -f /opt/ltsp/i386 and run ltsp-build-client again ...
<ogra> but thats only for booting the thin clients and trivial to do ...
<TOZII> Only once on the server right.
<ogra> yup
<TOZII> Coolbeans.
<ogra> you can upgrade it without wiping it, but there most likely would stuff remain that slows down the improvements 
<ogra> so for the full experience, wiping will be better ...
<ogra> i'll write it all up in the upgrade notes once we're this far :)
<TOZII> Someone will prolly write a script for those of us with lesser skillz, or at least a how-to.
<TOZII> thanx.
<ogra> sudo rm -f /opt/ltsp/i386 && sudo ltsp-build-client
<ogra> thats the script already ;)
<signifer123> ll now that was quick :-p
<TOZII> Can I double click on it?
<ogra> heh
* TOZII comes from a Winders world.
<ogra> you could wrap a .desktop file around it ... :)
<signifer123> put it in a file called whateveryou nameit.sh
<ogra> then its double clickable 
<signifer123> nvm then...
<ogra> yes, or put it in a shellscript :)
<TOZII> A shellscript is an executable text file?
<signifer123> yeah
<TOZII> If so, I wrote a couple that switch out the logos and layouts for Solar Wolf to explain the benefits of OSS.
<signifer123> someone whould make quick scripts :-p
<signifer123> all it does is be a fontend ot a script repository
<TOZII> One double click and the videogame is "rebranded" with the Church'es logo.
<signifer123> what videogame?
<TOZII> Solar wolf.
<signifer123> ohhh :-p
<TOZII> It's a Python game, so it's easy to edit.
<signifer123> don't yul ove python :-p
<signifer123> you love*
<ogra> even easier ... find the location of the pictures and just replace them :)
<signifer123> or get a plugin for gimp to do it
<ogra> (as long as they have same size and name it will just work)
<signifer123> :_p
<TOZII> Actually, that's what I did, but wiht a double clickable executable text file on the desktop.
<Kamping_Kaiser> bbl. food
<Kamping_Kaiser> hope there is some email to reply to when i get back :P
<TOZII> A simple file renaming script....
<TOZII> But to them, it was "Magic"
<TOZII> The Magic of open source.
<ogra> http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/
<ogra> thats a good starting point if you want to do scripting
<TOZII> They understand it a whole lot better when they see it happen.
<TOZII> "Wow! You wrote this videogame for the chuch?!?!?"
<TOZII> "Nope, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants."
<signifer123> "Nope, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants." - arn't like 99.999% of coders ;-)
<TOZII> Real coders.
<TOZII> Or is that real world coders.
<Bart11> hey signifier: thnx for the help yesterday
<signifer123> No Problem Bart11
<TOZII> Edubuntu workstation doesn't recognize floppy drives?
<Bart11> it was easier to edit the config file rather than sun the reconfigure thing
<signifer123> idk...pretty all the coders that don't work on the cpu
<signifer123> ohhh...:-p
<Bart11> sun=run heheh
<signifer123> sorry then...the reconfigure thing helped me out when my gfx stopped working
<TOZII> I only run it on a laptop without a floppy, but Bishop says that his workstation doesn't recognize his floppy.
<signifer123> :-P
<Bart11> oh ok...
<signifer123> really?
<signifer123> lemme graba floppy one sec
<ogra> TOZII, there was a bug ... its fixed in breezy-updates ... make sure you have the updates enabled in synaptic, it should install a new version of pmount
<TOZII> Ah!
<TOZII> he doesn't have an internet connectin at home.
<signifer123> well i guess I ahve it then becuase it works for me (as root)
<TOZII> I'll let him know.
<ogra> pmount is trivially small ... pull it down on your computer and copy the pmount package from /var/cache/apt/archive to the same directory on his machine to install it  ...
<ogra> take a CD if floppy or usbstick dont work
<signifer123> its download is 36.5 kb
<TOZII> He lost his Serial for Word, I told him to use OpenOffice, he said that OO doesn't recognize his floppy......
<signifer123> lol
<TOZII> He bought a used copy of Works, that required a 20 digit serial that he didn't have...........
<ogra> i think edubuntu is th eonly ubuntu variant that still has a big userbase with floppies and serial mice out there :)
<TOZII> I asked him again, why don't you just use Open Office?
<signifer123> which is why i like it :)
<signifer123> lol
<signifer123> does works run on wine?
<ogra> office runs on wine, so i'd guess works does too
<TOZII> I dunno, but I've got his machine on dual boot, XP Home and Edubuntu Workstation....
<signifer123> ohh...
<TOZII> Finally, I remind him that OO is multi platform.
<signifer123> ohhhth at low grade version of office
<signifer123> :-p
<TOZII> The first time that I installed OO on one of his machines 2 years ago, it was a Winders machine.
<signifer123> he like it?
<TOZII> He thought that OO was not Linux only, but edubuntu only.
<ogra> heh
<signifer123> whoah....
<TOZII> He likes the edubuntu OO.
<ogra> :)
<signifer123> :-) - just have ot
<signifer123> to*
<TOZII> He was so happy that I showed him the Winders version again, "no serialz, no hassles, no problem".
<signifer123> we need that slogan for something...
<signifer123> or at least a linux shirt with that on it
<TOZII> "roll your own"......Now there's a slogan
<signifer123> is it possible to take that out of context nad in the wrong way?
<signifer123> "roll yuor own"
<signifer123> with the typo os everyone says you have it spelled wrong
<signifer123> so<>os
<TOZII> Due to the per cigarette tobacco tax, there was a company that used to sell very long cigarrettes, that you were supposed to chop up into 5 cigarrettes each.....
<ogra> heh, funny idea
<signifer123> i wonder what happened....:-p
<TOZII> Latter they just revered back into the old pouch and paper days......
<TOZII> Sell a pouch of tobacco and 10 papers, as ten cigarrettes.......
<TOZII> But there was enough tobacco for 50 cigarettes.....
<signifer123> thats wat one of me relatives buys...becuase its "ssafer"
<signifer123> ughh...
<TOZII> Sell papers seperately, because there's no tax on papers.
<TOZII> Roll them fat as you like, or ltsp as you like.
<signifer123> i thought there was....
<TOZII> No taxes.
<Bart11> hey guyz, do you use a fax machine or ur pcs for fax?
<signifer123> nope...don't have a fax
<signifer123> kinda wish i did
<Bart11> is it easy to use modem for fax, using OSS??
<TOZII> I never could quite figer out how in tarnation to use on of thm thar facts machines.
<signifer123> you have a fax modem?
<Bart11> yup
<Bart11> its stored away somewhere in the garage.. hehhehe
<ogra> have a look at gfax in universe
<signifer123> well...you can set hylaFAX up a printer nad when you print ot it it send the fax
<signifer123> or try that ^^^^
<ogra> (indeed there is also hylafax, but thats rather for big companys)
<signifer123> ^^what i felt :-P^^
<TOZII> Ogra, maybe we could put bounties on Gnome ports of KDEdu apps?
<Bart11> ok.. so which is better hylafax of gfax? its mostly just fo recieving fax than sending them
<ogra> TOZII, probably in the future ... for dapper we already had a hard time to get pressed install CDs ...
<ogra> but we'll finally have them :)
<signifer123> Bart11 - not sure i'm pretty sure gfax needs mono
<TOZII> You mean, they're ready now?
<ogra> in april ... with the dapper release 
<TOZII> On a scale from 1 - 10, exactly how forked are we?
<ogra> 0
<ogra> :)
<TOZII> So edubuntu is exactly ubuntu with the ltsp installed?
<ogra> edubuntu is developed in ubuntu ...
<ogra> not exactly ...
<TOZII> .01 forked?
<ogra> the installer sets up the ltsp for you, the edubuntu-desktop and -server packages have some different software selection ... but all is made inside of ubuntu
<ogra> and there is edubuntu-artwork that cares for the appearance ...
<ogra> but the work i do in edubuntu is full ubuntu work and flows into ubuntu as well ...
<signifer123> brb i wanto see if edubuntu will run with wirelless and with fax mdem in...
<signifer123> modem*
<ogra> so if i develop a cool feature for edubuntu-artwork, it will also show up in ubuntu-artwork for example
<TOZII> But you do more than artwork?
<ogra> a fork would be to have our own repository of packages ...
<ogra> but all edubuntu stuff is also installable on a standard ubuntu ...
<ogra> the only real diversion happens in the installer ... (artwork of the cd screen and one line of code to set up ltsp)
<TOZII> So you could take a ubuntu instal, and reconfigure it so that it behaves just like edubuntu server?
<ogra> i care for ltsp, the edubuntu metapackages and the software we add for educational purposes
<ogra> yup
<ogra> and indeed i care for the cdimages :)
<TOZII> What time is it there now.
<TOZII> Just curious.
<ogra> at my place ? 
<ogra> 11:12am
<TOZII> 4:12AM here.
<TOZII> LTSP allows sound right?
<ogra> the new one in dapper, yes
<ogra> the breezy version didnt
<TOZII> April 6th?
<ogra> 23th i think 
<ogra> look at DapperReleaseSchedule on the wiki
<TOZII> And does sound support require more Ghz on the server CPU?
<ogra> nope
<TOZII> Coool.
<ogra> but a small amount of extra memory on the client ...
<TOZII> April 23rd.
<ogra> but 64MB should cover that still ...
<TOZII> Cool.
<TOZII> I ordered more memory already.
<TOZII> Left a message.
<TOZII> in Breezy, the Audio was beig processed by the server, and transfered to te clients, but it was not being processed on th eclients?
<ogra> in breezy it was only working for the first person which logged in ...
<ogra> in dapper it will be cleanly forwarded to each client ..
<ogra> (it already is in fact :) )
<TOZII> WOOHOO!
<TOZII> Thank you ogra.
<ogra> its my job :)
<ogra> (but also my passion indeed)
<TOZII> I told Bishop that I had talked to you MHZ and lguerra once for about 3 hours, and tat you guys helped me out a whole lot..........
<jsgotangco> really?
<ogra> jsgotangco, ?
<TOZII> He asked who you guys were.........
<TOZII> So I told him.......
* jsgotangco thought getting drunk was your passion
<ogra> lol
<ogra> not really ... i dont get drunk every day ... but i work on edubuntu every day
<TOZII> He couldn't understand why you guys ould spend so much time talking to me.........
<TOZII> ould = would
* jsgotangco wished he did that too
<TOZII> I tried to explain.......
<ogra> jsgotangco, being drunk occasionally ?
<jsgotangco> lol
<TOZII> Don't know if I did.....
<jsgotangco> well partly, i work in ubuntu everyday..
<jsgotangco> i guess that's good :)
<ogra> yeah 
<jsgotangco> oh by the way
<jsgotangco> i've uploaded some new docs
<jsgotangco> i'm going to upload a script to make it to html
<TOZII> I tod him that the reason that I don't charge him for the work that I do for him, is that the work I do is a priviledge.
<jsgotangco> should be availabe in doc.ubuntu.com later
<ogra> jsgotangco, cool 
<TOZII> If I charged him money, he couldn't afford me, then I wouldn't get to have any fun at all.
<ogra> TOZII, but you could charge for the service ...
<ogra> in facte thats what canonical does as well ...
<ogra> give the software out for free, but offer commercial support for it ...
<TOZII> I don't charge money, he pays me anyway.....
<ogra> ah, k
<ogra> mhz tries the above model in chile ...
<ogra> given that he is still around after 6 months it seems you can survive with it :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<TOZII> I do a whole lot of work for free, and recieve about 1/5th  value in compensation.....
<ogra> he even made it on tv with ubuntu/edubuntu over there
<jsgotangco> oh>
<jsgotangco> ?
<jsgotangco> wow
<TOZII> But if I chagred real money, I'd get 1/10th the amount of work.
<TOZII> I don't really care too much about the cash, I'm trying to find someone to help out.
<ogra> depends, if you need to feed children from it or have a angry wife at home, you might care for the cash ...
<TOZII> I'm working on building an "army" of people that have different skillsets......
<TOZII> I'm a single bachelor who survives on ramen noodles.....
<ogra> lol
<TOZII> Grahics, music, programming, web design, writing, publishing.......
<TOZII> I might be a little selfish.....
<TOZII> I want to show people tht they can do wonderful things wit technology......
<ogra> thats not selfish
<TOZII> You used to have to have a big following and a "hit song", now you can produce your own albums......
<signifer123> back...
<TOZII> You used to have to mail your manuscripts to publishers and magazines, now you can publish yor own stories.
<TOZII> Print your own magazines....
<TOZII> No more darkrooms and toxic chemicals, now it's Gimp and a good printer........
<TOZII> I tried selling an edubuntu lab to the church, no one was too enthused...........
<TOZII> I then tried selling them a church newsletter written, formatted, and edited by the youth group, and they were all for that.....
<signifer123> :)
<ogra> give them scribus as well, its in the edubuntu default install ...
<ogra> its a great DTP tool you can even use professionally
<TOZII> I told them that the youth would develope skills that were concrete and could be shown to potential employers, and they wanted it then.
<TOZII> DTP
<TOZII> O!
<TOZII> Desk Top Publishing.
<ogra> yup
<ogra> to make newspapers and flyers
<TOZII> Yeah, that's what I sold them.
* jsgotangco seems to have a slow transfer rate on the daily....
<ogra> jsgotangco, see -devel ... its broken 
<TOZII> They have a yoth organization called "Keepin' It Real".
<jsgotangco> argghh
<ogra> wait for the rebuild ....
<jsgotangco> ok
<TOZII> The Keepin' It Real Founder has been working for months on a trifold pamphlet using publisher.......
<TOZII> I could'a done it in 3 days with Scribus.
<jsgotangco> 14
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> i'll look at report.html before grabbing
<ogra> yes, makes sense
<TOZII> He said, "If you don't use Microsoft, then you don't have Publisher"......
<ogra> i just removed schooltool tepmorary ... the next report should look better
<ogra> heh
<TOZII> I told him, "We don't need Publisher. We have Scribus."
<TOZII> I said it with such conviction that he was ready to listen to what 
<TOZII> I was selling him.
<jsgotangco> ogra, if report.html is empty it means its fine?
<ogra> jsgotangco, yes .... if things like mailx and lsb stuff show up, it means its overflown ... that means it might or might not work ... (gambling)
<jsgotangco> kubuntu has a clean slate
<ogra> it has no overflow problems
<TOZII> I'm currently documenting this lab that I'm building. I was going to make a simple webpage, with images documenting how it was built, from hardware used to instalsation of the software, and even administration.....
<ogra> try dia for that ... 
<ogra> its good for schema stuff
<TOZII> Eventually, it will end up on our website, but we don't have a website yet.......
<TOZII> Is there someplace that I might host it in order to help others in the mean time?
<jsgotangco> ogra, it says its uninstallable...
<ogra> jsgotangco, kubuntu ? 
<jsgotangco> no edubuntu
<jsgotangco> unistallable packages
<ogra> yes
<jsgotangco> the only clue i got that its still -14 is linux-meta
<ogra> schooltool is broken ... and supposed to be fixed before 23rd
<ogra> the kernel image is the weong one ...
<TOZII> Thanx..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dia
<jsgotangco> ogra, ok thanks. i'll just wait for a heads up from you if we're ready then
<jsgotangco> (just want to do amd64 for now)
<signifer123> ughhh fax is a pain...
<signifer123> whats the hylafax password?
<mhz> ogra: hi... back better?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> not perfect yet, but a lot better :)
<mhz> ogra: cool!, please do be nice to your back at least until dapper :D 
<ogra> will be ...
<ogra> its just the frits of travelling with a lot of heavy stuff :)
<ogra> *fruits even
<ogra> i had my whole ltsp lab with me in london last week
<mhz> hehehe, I have been there too.
<mhz> (not in london! but yes, with lots of weight to travel)
<MotherLUG> Hello All
<Kamping_Kaiser> hiu :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> me recognises the nic from somewhere
<Kamping_Kaiser> ah, linuxsa email l8ist
<Kamping_Kaiser> i think
<Kamping_Kaiser> brb. checking
<MotherLUG> I have a question.  I have found a typo in the edubuntu FAQs page. Who should I contact please?
<MotherLUG> Yes Kamping_Kaiser , It is me.
<ogra> MotherLUG, on the wiki ? 
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi MotherLUG :)
<MotherLUG> ogra, yes
<MotherLUG> Kamping_Kaiser, Hello there
<ogra> MotherLUG, then just fix it :)
<ogra> thats why it is a wiki
<Kamping_Kaiser> :O
<MotherLUG> Thankyou, but I wanted to check first. I hate stepping on toes
<Kamping_Kaiser> )
<Kamping_Kaiser> *( :)
<ogra> MotherLUG, just change it, people who care about a particular page and its content should be subscribed to it :)
<MotherLUG> Just looking at subscibing as it's a locked page
<ogra> you need a launchpad account ...
<ogra> that will give you access to all ubuntu/edubuntu/kubuntu ressources
<Kamping_Kaiser> MotherLUG: what's the error?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i can fix it (I'm registerd with LP)
<MotherLUG> bottom of the FAQ's page it has    Edubuntu is also only available as an install. For a live CD, try Ubutun.com
<ogra> nice catch :)
<MotherLUG> ta
<MotherLUG> Kamping_Kaiser, Thankyou for that, another deed done for the day. Good Night All :D
<Kamping_Kaiser> LATER MATE
<ogra> night and thanks :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> er sorry
<Kamping_Kaiser> caps :$
<MotherLUG> Later.  No problem. Night
<Kamping_Kaiser> later
<Oxymoron> whats the diffrence between edubuntu and ubuntu?
<ogra> edubuntu installs a single classroom ltsp server by default, has added educational apps (kdeedu, tux4kids, gcompris ...) and different artwork ...
<ogra> similar to k12ltsp ...
<ogra> but you have a workstation install option to omit the server bits
<Oxymoron> when I installed my ubuntu, all was ok, but now when I start it says "edubuntu" whats up?
<ogra> did you install edubuntu-desktop ?
<ogra> then thats expected behavior
<Oxymoron> no I installed ubuntu
<pirast> is edubuntu-artwork-usplash installed?
<Oxymoron> where can I check that?
<ogra> you will only get the edubuntu bootscreen if oyu installed edubuntu-desktop or edubuntu-artwork or even edubuntu-artwork-usplash 
<Oxymoron> where can I check my artwork upsplash?
<pirast> run this in a terminal: dpkg -l | grep edubuntu-artwork-usplash
<Oxymoron> what does that do+
<pirast> if there is any output it is installed
<pirast> it looks if the package edubuntu-artwork-usplash is installed
<Oxymoron> ok
<ogra>  sudo update-alternatives --list usplash-artwork.so
<ogra> that will show you which bootsplashes are available on your system
<Oxymoron> yeah I have an edubuntu splash
<ogra>  sudo update-alternatives --config usplash-artwork.so
<ogra> that will offer you to change it
<eds0n> hey, I just got a problem with the edubuntu server, it was rebooted and suddenly I can't get into X, and there's no output on the log...
<eds0n> anyone had the same problem?
<Oxymoron> ogra: thatdid the trick, thanks
<ogra> eds0n, what did you do before ? 
<ogra> Oxymoron, you'll need to regenerate your initramfs ...
<Oxymoron> ogra: what does that mean?
<ogra> sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-$(uname -r) will do that
<eds0n> ogra: I just changed something in the xorg.conf file, but when I rebooted X it worked. It was only some Vsync and Hsync stuff. So if it was wrong, I've should've gotten an error message :-/
<Oxymoron> ogra: what will happen?
<ogra> the initramfs is a filesystem that gets executed on boot ... it needs regeneration to take the change 
<ogra> else you'll still have the edubuntu usplash :)
<eds0n> ogra: was after a complete reboot it didn't work
<eds0n> yeah, everything works until it tries to start gdm
<eds0n> then I get the usual X-server error, and asks if I want to see the output, and it's impty
<eds0n> *empty
<eds0n> nothing on the log files, but /var/log/gdm creates some empty ones 0 bytes
<ogra> also noting in /var/log/Xorg.*.log ?
<ogra> gdm has logging disabled by default, thats nothing special
<eds0n> no new Xorg.log is generated
<ogra> what happens if you try startx from a console ? 
<ogra> it should spit out an error 
<eds0n> yeah, it just spits out a general error
<eds0n> xinit 111 or something
<eds0n> and xauth writes a new file
<eds0n> I just find it wierd that it suddenly stopped working :-/
<ogra> it doesnt stop without you doing something 
<ogra> thats breezy ? 
<eds0n> jsut found out that xserver-xorg for some reason was broken.. ?
<ogra> is that breezy ?
<pirast> im off now, bye
<ogra> ciao pirast 
<eds0n> ogra: seems to work after reinstalling xserver-xorg heh
<eds0n> ogra: :)
<ogra> :)
<eds0n> ogra: have you used vmware clients to an edubuntu server? Starting the vmware client with PXE?
<ogra> nop
<eds0n> ogra: we've been trying this, but the client doesn't manage to start X
<eds0n> ogra: ah ok
<ogra> i'm developing ltsp, there is not much time left to play with other implementations :)
<ogra> i use real hardware for this ... :)
<eds0n> ogra: we're just going to test performance. So we wanted to see how it worked with vmware clients, but it's not important :)
<ogra> i tried a i386 with quemu on my ibook ...
<ogra> but i'm to impatient ... afetr 1h booting i stopped it ...
<eds0n> heh ok
<eds0n> well, thanks for you help
<ogra> youre welcom :)
<eds0n> if I find out about the vmware thing I'll let you know
<ogra> e
<eds0n> cya, gtg
<ogra> fine, we can put it on the wiki
<ogra> ciao
<jsgotangco> hrmmm i should try installing it in a vmware server then :)
<jsgotangco> would be interesting to see how edubuntu virtualization would work (probably sloooowww)
<ogra> you mean vmware ltsp clients ? 
<jsgotangco> no the ltsp server itself
<jsgotangco> dunno how a vmware ltsp client would work though (yet)
<jsgotangco> probably just the same
<ogra> that should work fine ... even running the server locally and a quemu based client should be fine ...
<ogra> (as long as you dont emulate foreign arches ;) )
<jsgotangco> ahhh
* jsgotangco yawns
<ui-fi> ola pessoal
<ui-fi> hello
<Burgwork> ogra, why did gobby and schooltool get removed?
<ogra> Burgwork, because schooltool breaks cdbuilds, waiting for upstream to upgrade 
<ogra> gobbys upstream decided to switch to howl ...
<ogra> i havent come around to talk to pkern yet if he might remove that dependency
<ogra> he knows about the problem though
<Burgwork> ogra, howl? are they crazy? maybe before avahi existed, but now?
<ogra> it uses the avahi-howl compatibility layer which we dont ship because upstream wants to drop it again
<ogra> debian has it though
<flint> ogra, I missed the answer to the chroot install error...
<flint> if you can shoot me an email with it.
<mhz> flint: hi
<ogra> flint, if you can repeaet what the error was ? 
<signifer123> Hello.
<MotherLUG> Morning All 
#edubuntu 2006-02-15
<jsgotangco> ogra, did we have an am64 overflow? the iso is almost 700mb
<flint> ogra, happens while trying to build the LTSP chroot...
<flint> ogra, here at the lab station, I have the old breezy edubuntu unit one swtich postion away from the new dapper machine so I can switch between the two and see the error.
<flint> DEBUG: configure ltsp-client-builder status 4
<flint> main menu[2036] : WARNING ***12
<flint> disregard line above ^
<flint> main menu[2036] : WARNING ***: Configuring 'ltsp-client-builder' failed with error code 100
<flint> main menu[2036] : WARNING ***: Menu Item 'ltsp-client-builder' failed
<flint> mhz enjoy dinner...
<bart11> hello ppl
<bart11> hey ogra: u awake??
<mhz_dinner> flint: sorry I am too dumb but where / how can I get to see CookBook ?
<jsgotangco> yeah
* mhz_dinner got caught at computer by wife... /me runs
<flint> mhz_dinner, oh yea, I like that woman!
<bart11> jsgotangco: hi
<flint> jsgotangco, keep in mind, I am not directly involved with this process.  my fetish is setting up a lab to do testing.  
<jsgotangco> tech pr0n
<flint> the question that I would ask mhz is did he realy put new material in the docbox bzr?
<flint> the docbox bzr is where all this stuff should be and were it should be available.
<flint> ogra, you out there buddy?  
<flint> ogra, I have been swtiching back and forth between these two machines getting a hand copy of be bottom of <alt> 1,3 & 4 on the sick puppy.
<flint> ogra, give me a sign... I know it is late in CE.
<bart11> guys, does linux now support writing to ntfs?
<flint> bart11, yea, you use the ntfs drivers in an emulation mode, or there is a native driver, take your pick (and your chances!) why do you want to do such a non fun thing?
<bart11> well... i have no choice hehhehe
<flint> note that you can mount the damn thing read only using the mount command.
<flint> bart11, if you have some partition space, then you can copy the stuff to a decent partition type.
<bart11> a fat32 would be better taht using a ntfs right? 
<flint> bart11, if you need to continue to read this stuff in the window$ domain, put this data in a fat32 partiton
<bart11> ok thanx...
<flint> bart11, and next time ONLY use fat32 and your life will be happy all the time!
<bart11> i'm just learning linux now... hehhee
<flint> bart11, fat32 is native to both os's I (and pardon the hypocracy) keep a lot of personal data in giant fat32 partitions that belong to hard drives mounted under my userid.  
<bart11> thanx
<flint> bart11, these are great places to store bulk files (eg multimedia), whatever
<flint> bart11, fat32 is your friend, ntfs is not.
<bart11> thanx for the info.
<bart11> hey flint, do you know a god dvd authoring software i can use on linux?
<jsgotangco> as in making dvd movies?
<bart11> yup
<bart11> that i can use on edubuntu, that's the only reason im stuck usung a winderz box
<Burgwork> bart11, this just got packaged --> ' http://pitivi.sourceforge.net/
<bart11> wait i'll go to that
<bart11> thanx burgwork
<bart11> i'll try it out
<Burgwork> bart11, np
<bart11> have u tried it out?
<Burgwork> nope
<bart11> ok.
<flint> bart11, you did not hear this from me but go install automatix...
<Burgwork> flint, please don't recommend that
<Burgwork> bart11, if you must use something, use easyubuntu
<flint> ok gocha
<MotherLUG> I was wondering if someone could advise me about who the correct person is that I need to contact about a problem in one of the webpages please
<Burgwork> MotherLUG, which page?
<MotherLUG> http://www.edubuntu.org/news.html
<MotherLUG> the icon for screenshots is there but the word screenshots disappears on this page only
<Burgwork> MotherLUG, email henrik at henrik@canonical.com
<MotherLUG> Burgwork, Thankyou :D
<Burgwork> MotherLUG, np
<bart11> what is easybuntu?
<Burgwork> bart11, another script for installing stuff
<bart11> ah ok
<jsgotangco> 200mb for 5 kde apps is so wrong...
<Burgwork> jsgotangco, is that what we need for the kdedu stuff?
<jsgotangco> yep
<jsgotangco> ppc and amd64 overflows
<Burgwork> kdedu is more than 5 apps
<jsgotangco> that's still a lot of space for a few kde apps
<Burgwork> yes
<Burgwork> but there are no other options
<jsgotangco> yep not at this time
<Burgwork> we ran into the same issue at work
<Burgwork> http://userful.com/products/discoverstation-kids
<jsgotangco> what about it?
<Burgwork> wondered what you thought and if there is anything we can borrow for edubuntu
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> i don't think we'll be using gartoon as default
<jsgotangco> Denemo looks useful if not niche
<Burgwork> is edubuntu switching away from gartoon?
<flint> ok gocha
<flint> Burgwork, does easybuntu install all the multimedia stuff?
<Burgwork> flint, I think so. I hate things like easyubuntu
<Burgwork> if you need to install something by deafult, use fai or kickstart
<flint> Burgwork, you all are in the userful space, which is all usb 2.0.
<jsgotangco> Burgwork, i believe the plan is having the capability to switch to three themes according to the audience level
<jsgotangco> he works at userful
<flint> Burgwork, that is very cool.  I have seen a userful install in Takoma Park Maryland, USA.
<Burgwork> small world
<flint> Burgwork, my question is could you use an ltsp type architecture over usb 2.0 
<Burgwork> ltsp is network based
<Burgwork> userful actually has a customer that uses our stuff over ltsp
<flint> Burgwork, by this I mean instead of using a multi headed monitor card and usb keyboards and mice
<Burgwork> no idea, I do sales
<flint> Burgwork, you use the speedy usb2.0 as the network media to interconnect ltsp workstations 
<flint> Burgwork, which tftp boot off their usb devices...
<flint> Burgwork, where 
<Burgwork> hmm, lost me there. I am not a highly technical person
<flint> Burgwork, where is your sales territory?
<Burgwork> arizona, colorado, kansas, oklahoma, louisiana, missouri, alaska, manitoba, nova scotia, newfoundland and bits of ontario and michigan
<LinuxJones> Burgwork, what do you sell ?
<flint> Burgwork, are you selling mostly to municipalities or to private educational institutions?
<Burgwork> LinuxJones, http://userful.com/products/library-ds
<Burgwork> flint, libraries
<flint> LinuxJones, he sells Userful
<flint> Burgwork, yea that is a good niche for Userful.
<LinuxJones> flint, I have been away for 5 months without internet access :D
<flint> LinuxJones, ah prison again,  got to stay off the pipe ma man... :^)
<flint> LinuxJones, seriously, how did you survive without the bit spike in your vein?
<LinuxJones> flint, almost I was working in Alberta :)
<flint> LinuxJones, aw come on, they have running water, electricity, fire and internet in Alberta!
<flint> LinuxJones, indooor plumbing is a touchy subject in that part of Canada...
<LinuxJones> flint, yeah but I didn't have my computer, I was busy working 7 days a week
<flint> LinuxJones, what is your trade? Not computer related?
<LinuxJones> flint, I am a construction worker
<flint> LinuxJones, gotcha.  hope it was indoor finishing you were up to and not sloping concrete on forms in the snow.
<flint> ogra, where the hell are you ma man!!!
<LinuxJones> flint, even worse I was working as an Insulator, yes it was all outside work
<flint> LinuxJones, spray insulation or batting?
<flint> LinuxJones, spray would not be too damn bad, but foam or batting needs to be stapled or nailed in.
<LinuxJones> flint, Insulating pipes at an Oil refinery, they use molded insulation
<flint> LinuxJones, interesting those foam sleve things in various colors and sizes...
<flint> gota go sksk
<LinuxJones> flint, I'm going out Scaffolding when I go back out
<LinuxJones> bye
<jelkner> can anyone here tell me the easiest way to setup zope3 instances in a user's home directory for learning/development purposes?
<mhz> flint: ping
<mhz> flint: sorry I am too dumb but where / how can I get to see CookBook ?
<flint> mhz, has ollie been around?
<mhz> yes and nope
<mhz> he's been in suffer
<bart11> hi mhz!
<mhz> his back is in pain
<mhz> bart11: hi
<bart11> how was dinner??
<flint> mhz ouch!!!
<mhz> flint: will you ever feel like responding my question ? ;)
<flint> to recap:
<flint> keep in mind, I am not directly involved with this process.  my fetish is setting up a lab to do testing.  
<flint> the question that I would ask mhz is did he realy put new material in the docbox bzr?
<flint> the docbox bzr is where all this stuff should be and were it should be 
<flint> ogra, you out there buddy?  
<mhz> flint: no have not because I have never seen any cookbook yet 
<flint> mhz yesterday morning did you say something about putting material out on the docbox?
<flint> it is on the docbox
<flint> you have an account
<mhz> flint: do i? still?
<flint> absolutely.
<mhz> wow
<flint> docbox.flint.com
<flint> do you remember the username and password?
<mhz> not at all
<mhz> flint: however I know zero about docbook
<flint> give me your phone number and I will skype you.  do you remember your username?
<flint> it is docbox not docbook.  docbox is a bzr repository.
<flint> anyone has read priviledges.
<mhz> duh!
<mhz> hehehe
<flint> if your username is mhz you may remember the default password.
* mhz is gonna try
<flint> that's the spirit.  I am now going to do something else...
<flint> sksk
<mhz> WOW! elive pre-release is out! http://linuxtracker.org/torrents-details.php?id=1431
<mhz> nice work!
* jsgotangco hasn't seen a cookbook either
<mhz> and I can't log in to that server :(
<Brunellus> hi there.  can anyone help me get dhcpd up?
<mhz> jsgotangco: why would xfonts-artwiz package let me use its fonts for the window interfaces and xchat and gimp, BUT for inkscape?
<Brunellus> I keep trying to start/stop/restart dhcp3-server, and it keeps returning "failed"  how do I get it up and running?
<mhz> Brunellus: hi
<mhz> what edubuntu version are you using?
<Brunellus> mhz, I'm not really using edubuntu
<Brunellus> but I figured I'd ask here, since there was a beter chance that people here boot off the network
<mhz> hmm, yes and nope
<mhz> it all depends on what your settings are
<mhz> Brunellus: could you see the error in /var/log/dhcpd.log ?
<Brunellus> no such log
<mhz> and/or could you use pastebin to let us see your confs?
<jsgotangco> hmm i dunno maybe inkscape only prefers vector-based fonts
<Brunellus> mhz, do I just paste to #pastebin?
<mhz> Brunellus: sorry, messages
<Brunellus> shall I message you with my configs?
<mhz> I mean /var/log/messages
<mhz> jsgotangco: good point
<mhz> jsgotangco: but nah.
<mhz> Brunellus: hmm, I can't remember a pastebin rightnow.. let me see
<jsgotangco> true
<mhz> Brunellus: http://pastebin.com/
<bart11> hey jsgotangco: i found a nice dvd software, but its a debian package can i instal it?
<mhz> that will give you a url + #
<jsgotangco> what dvd software?
<mhz> you paste whatever there and then save it
<bart11> dvd styler
<bart11> for authoring
<jsgotangco> url?
<mhz> Brunellus: then you provide the url+# here
<bart11> http://dvdstyler.sourceforge.net/downloads.html
<jsgotangco> it probably won't work
<jsgotangco> you could compile though :)
<bart11> y?
<Brunellus> http://pastebin.com/547831
<Brunellus> that's dhcpd.conf
<bart11> how do i conmpile?
<jsgotangco> gcc4
<bart11> ok, is it easy to compile??
* mhz visiting pastebin
* Brunellus sighs
<Brunellus> I should explain what I'm trying to do
<mhz> shoot
<Brunellus> I am trying to follow the directions for a localnet install on this wikipage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation/LocalNet
<Brunellus> I have done everything else...the only thing that's left, apparently, is to have my dhcp server up on this machine
<Brunellus> this machine (funes) will serve a boot image to a new machine
<mhz> Brunellus: yup, I understand your idea
<mhz> it seems to me you need to add more lines to it
<Brunellus> what shall I add?
<mhz> option routers 192.168....
<mhz> else, I dont think your machines will get ip, right jsgotangco ?
<mhz> maybe, even  option broadcast-address 192.168.1.255
<Brunellus> so option routers 192.168.1.1
<Brunellus> option broadcast-address 192.168.1.255
<Brunellus> ?
<mhz> yup
<mhz> and I am not sure if syntax must be strict
<mhz> but I'd place the closing '{' with no indentation (that is on the left margin)
<Brunellus> fail and fail
<Brunellus> OK, for those two option lines
<Brunellus> what is the syntax?
<mhz> Brunellus: could you read /var/log/message
<Brunellus> dhcpd: wrote 245 leases to leases file
<Brunellus> then a blank entry
<mhz> and.. where's the error entry?
<Brunellus> error entry?
<mhz> Brunellus: you said that dhcp server fails.
<mhz> how you  know that?
<Brunellus> sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
<Brunellus> *stopping DHCP server..... [fail] 
<Brunellus> *starting DHCP server.... [fail] 
<Brunellus> so what gives?
<mhz> Brunellus: then I am sorry. If message doesn't provide a message indicating what is actually failing.. no idea.
<Brunellus> ugh.
<mhz> or Brunellus you could install Edubuntu, use its dhcp settings and just change 2 lines so it also lets you netboot
<bart11> hey guyz, is it easy to compile??
<mhz> it was for me loong ago when I used gentoo for a couple of months
<bart11> hey mhz how r u?
* Brunellus sighs.  
<mhz> bart11: alive and kicking and changing a couple of ideas I had and were just about 30 minutes in inkscape. They have taken over 2 hours now.
<bart11> oh cool...
<bart11> can i install a deb package on edubuntu or i have to recompile it?
<mhz> bart11: you mean a package.deb ?
<mhz> what package?
<bart11> i'll send u the homepage.. jsut a min
<bart11> http://dvdstyler.sourceforge.net/
<mhz> bart11: well, if you can install it, yes you can. If it will brake something, no idea.
<mhz> dpkg -i package.deb
<bart11> how about if i just recompile it?
<Brunellus> OK mhz, I'm installing edubuntu-server and seeing if that doesn't fix this
<mhz> Brunellus: be optimistic..
<mhz> "see if this fixes it"
<mhz> bart11: then you'd be making sure it will be optimised for your os
<Brunellus> mhz: IME, optimism is misplaced when learning new ways to install stuff
<mhz> hehee, trondm_gone Brunellus 
<mhz> hehee, true Brunellus 
<Brunellus> from what I can see it's hauling in a lot of stuff I wanted anyway
<Brunellus> but it doesn't seem to be preconfiguring anything that I haven't touched already
<Brunellus> HOLY HEADS OF CATTLE
<Brunellus> DHCP server is UP!
* Brunellus runs to see if it boots
<mhz> Brunellus: good luck!
<Brunellus> Ok but now it won't boot
<Brunellus> h'm
<mhz> Brunellus: one thing is dhcp provides IP
<Brunellus> so how do I get it to boot now?
<mhz> Brunellus: and other thing is your 'clients' can boot from server
<Brunellus> OK, the client won't boot.  it's hwoing "media test failure, check cable" 
<Brunellus> the cable is known to be good
<mhz> Brunellus: breezy or dapper?
<Brunellus> mhz breezy
<mhz> Brunellus: try 2 more times
<Brunellus> ?
<mhz> (this has happened before
<Brunellus> try what 2 more times?
<mhz> to boot clients
<Brunellus> second trial...
<Brunellus> no, doesn't go.
<Brunellus> shall I restart the dchp server?
<mhz> Brunellus: hold on...
<mhz> you have two machines?
<Brunellus> correct!
<mhz> 1 server and 1 client
<Brunellus> yes.
<Brunellus> client is connected directly to server
<mhz> cross cable?
<Brunellus> no, straight.  ugh.  
<mhz> or normal ethernet cable?
<Brunellus> normal ethernet cable
<mhz> no way that will boot!
<Brunellus> haa!
<mhz> you need cross cable
<Brunellus> I need a switch?
<mhz> or a switch ?
<mhz> yes
<mhz> :D
<Brunellus> I have a spare old linksys router/switch/wireless access point lying around
<Brunellus> reckon that'll work?
* mhz has never used wireless yet
<Brunellus> no non o
<Brunellus> as in
<Brunellus> it is also a 4-port router/switch
<mhz> I have tried edubuntu like these 2 configs: ISP cable modem -> Server -> switch -> clients   ||   OR  ... server -> cross cable -> clients
* Brunellus runs to get his surplus hw
<mhz> Brunellus: AFAIK, 'routers' include their own dhcp server
<mhz> so, placing a router in between server | router | client wont work either
<Brunellus> if I disable the router's dhcp server?
<Brunellus> IOW, if I lobotomize it
<mhz> then it will act as a switch (i guess) and then it will work
<Brunellus> grand
<mhz> lol
<mhz> bart11:  sudo apt-cache show lg-issue83
<mhz> that number has a nice article about DVD authoring
<bart11> m using a win box now...
<bart11> brb
<bart11> m back
<jsgotangco> ogra, hmm i wonder if the new amd64 build is good to go now
<jsgotangco> Binaries from lsb 3.0-12ubuntu1 cannot be installed:
<ogra> looks still a bit broken ... 
<ogra> but you can only try :)
<jsgotangco> burning it now
<ogra> i'll test it myself during the day ...
<jsgotangco> wooooo accessibility option!
<jsgotangco> hrmm
<jsgotangco> ogra, does a cd-rom integrity failure mean anything for the whole distro not working?
<ogra> it does mean that your install will very likely fail
<jsgotangco> right
<ogra> and even more likely you can fix it by burning at lower speed
<jsgotangco> ogra, i meant during the time the iso was built by the server...
<ogra> where do you see a integrity failure there ? 
<jsgotangco> openoffice
<ogra> ??
<jsgotangco> im burning a new cd to verify again
<jsgotangco> "slowly"
<jsgotangco> :D
<ogra> good
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> hmmm the files are so compressed
<jsgotangco> ogra, ltsp chroot fails at 50%
<ogra> can you look at the console with which error ? 
<ogra> tty3 should have it
<jsgotangco> hold on im trying it again
<jsgotangco> couldn't find package inputattach
<ogra> ah
<ogra> ok
<jsgotangco> removing 'local diversion of /sbin/start-top-demon etc....
<jsgotangco> that's the build i took from current an hour ago
<ogra> yup
<ogra> inputattach was a dependency for ltsp-client ... debian requested to take it out of the deps ...
<ogra> i forgot to add it to a seed to have it on the CD ...
<jsgotangco> is there a workaround?
<ogra> (deps are automatically added)
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> i'll rsync later
<ogra> wait a while ... i'll add it to the seeds and rebuild the CD
<ogra> 1h ....
<jsgotangco> okie
<jsgotangco> amd64 btw
<ogra> could do it in 20min, but the seeds take time to sync
<ogra> it will be missing on all arched
<ogra> arches
<jsgotangco> its ok i'll just rsync tommorow morning
<jsgotangco> (7pm)
<eds0n> has anyone here done any performance test on servers running edubuntu with several clients?
<spacey> what kind of performance tests?
<MotherLUG> Hi  Is anyone aware of a PPC version of Edubuntu coming and secondly, Is a Live CD for Edubuntu on the cards?
<ogra> yes and yes
<MotherLUG> wooohooo, please let it be with dapper
<ogra> it will ;)
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/
<MotherLUG> ogra, You have made my day
<ogra> feel free to test and report breakage to me :)
<eds0n> spacey: performance when the clients load regular progs as firefox, openoffice etc. Bandwith, RAM, CPU
<eds0n> spacey: thinking of removing RAM to see how it affects performance tests
<MotherLUG> ogra, I certainly will. I need to learn it inside and out before I do the big presentation at my sons school
<ogra> :)
<mhz> .oO( ogras has usually been people's day maker)
<mhz> MotherLUG: how old's your son?
<MotherLUG> 8 in April
<MotherLUG> I have arranged for his school to get 13 Powermacs donated , and I so want to put edubuntu on them
<mhz> MotherLUG: I wrote an little article about edubuntu for primary school
<mhz> MotherLUG: it's in spanish, but maybe you can get someone to trasnlate it into spanish
<mhz> into english
<mhz> duh!
<MotherLUG> mhz, I would love to try
<ogra> mhz, i didnt know your spanish was *this* bad :P
<mhz> ehehehe
<ogra> :)
<mhz> ogra: back better, uh?
<ogra> heh, yes
<mhz> ;)
<ogra> busy trying to get the CDs in shape 
<mhz> I could easily tell
<ogra> even if flight4 wont come before the weekend
<mhz> oooh
<mhz> but was it planned to?
<mhz> MotherLUG: i'll upload it in 1 minute
<mhz> ogra: can I use your knowledge again?
<ogra> flight releases are never *planned* 
<MotherLUG> mhz, great thankyou
<ogra> they happen if the archive is in shape to do them ...
<ogra> we only have rough dates  ...
<ogra> mhz, ask away
<mhz> I installed xfonts-artwiz package. It seems it has a small bug. It is installed to a non common path for fonts. I can either link uncommon path to common fonts path OR unpack the source to the common path. However, Gimp and other apps do see the fonts listed and I can use them. BUT inkscape (a VERY important tool) only lists the fonts name but they look exactly the same, no diff at all.
<ogra> something with /usr/X11R6 in it ?
<mhz> ogra: re f4, hence I made that almost retoric question "but was it planned to?"
<ogra> we wanted it before the weekend ...
<mhz> F4/ oh, I see
<mhz> fonts/ rephrase please
<ogra> the path they get installed to, does it contain X11R6 ?#
<ogra> and is this in dapper ? 
<ogra> note that i cant do much about breezy breakages
<spacey> eds0n: not tested you, however i'm wondering about performance when someone uses a flash site in firefox
<mhz> BTW, I am in page 20 or something in the Debian doc on packaging. So far it seems it is just a matter of using a couple of commands and test the resuting package. Unless it gets difficult in the next pages, I'd say it is not big deal
<ogra> it is no big deal :)
<ogra> the big deal is to know all the policy docs for specific stuff ... even i sometimes get hit by my colleagues for non policy compliant packages
<mhz> ogra: DEB/ so why it sounded SO big a deal? AFAIK, I am not the one with that "cryptic" feeling these .deb things are only for real enlightened people
<mhz> oooh, that.
* mhz still looks at the keyboard when writing, sory
<mhz> ogra: re fonts/ yup, breezy.
<mhz> so, never mind, I'll wiki the solution
<mhz> and once I can play with dapper i'll see if it is solved
<ogra_> hmpf
<mhz> hmpf?
<ogra_> daily disconnect
<mhz> ahh
<mhz> MotherLUG: http://www.ubuntu-cl.org/Wiki/EdubuntuArticuloPrimaria
<MotherLUG> mhz, Thankyou
<mhz> MotherLUG: this article was written by me but on behalf of Tecnocimiento, so you can obiously ommit those parts :)
<mhz> your welcome
<MotherLUG> I'll get on to translating it tomorrow. It's midnight here and I'm heading to bed.
<MotherLUG> Thankyou All for your help :D
<mhz> MotherLUG: I'll remove that PDF from that url in 5 minutes. I dont want to upset other ubuntu-cl pals with my 'branding' names.
<mhz> MotherLUG: so it was donwloaded already?
<MotherLUG> I already have it pulled down and on my desk top
<mhz> okis, sleeo well
<mhz> p
<MotherLUG> thanks, Night
<Yagisan> eds0n: spacey: I've done a little ltsp testing - what would like to know ?
<Yagisan> spacey: btw - non-free flash tends to kill firefox often
<Yagisan> spacey: otherwise I don't see much cpu usage, but network bandwidth goes up
<spacey> my experience with flash is that it uses 100% cpu
<spacey> with the nonfree on
<spacey> one
<Yagisan> spacey: I should have said, I don't see much more cpu usage then usual
<Yagisan> spacey: but it dies often on crappy ads. I only have it as there are a few sites that need it, otherwise I'd purge it
<knario> hola a todos!
<knario> hola a todos quien sabe como instalar los drivers de un fx5200 que lo he instalado y el pc kaput!
<mhz> knario: this is an english channel, #edubuntu-es is para castellano
<mhz> :)
<ogra> knario, #ubuntu-es/#edubuntu-es/#kubuntu-es
<knario> a vale!
<D13GU___> hi all
<ogra> jsgotangco, amd64 live is ready for testing/usage ... works fine here
<jsgotangco> wow that was fast
<ogra> (live)
<ogra> install isnt tested yet and the lsb breakage wasnt sorted yet...
<jsgotangco> yes i'm grabbing it now
<jsgotangco> i saw the upload though
<flint> ogra, sorry business took longer than I thought... got a command line for me?
<ogra> yup, one sec
<flint> ogra, excellent...
<ogra>  rsync -z -a --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/edubuntu/daily-live/current/dapper-live-i386.iso dapper-live-i386.iso dapper-live-i386.iso
<ogra> run that in the dir where your iso is stored
<ogra> (change i386 to other arches if you want to test them)
<jsgotangco> we have a livecd?
<jsgotangco> (i didnt know that)
<ogra> sure :)
<jsgotangco> i thought it wasn't possible
<ogra> oh, indeed, that was the live iso 
<ogra> flint, ^^^
<ogra> change live to install there 
<jsgotangco> ltsp on live?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> only workstation 
<jsgotangco> ahhh right
<jsgotangco> yeah that's why i was so surprised
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> ltsp on live gives such a poor performance that it would give a bad impression
<jsgotangco> i would imagine
<jsgotangco> not everyone has at least 2GB  or ram
<flint> ogra, just copied the line, pasted it in, and it took off like a scalded cat!
<ogra> flint, noooo
<ogra> see above 
<ogra> thats the live iso ...
<ogra> change all occurences of "live" in that line to "install"
<ogra> sorry for that, i just pulled the live iso ...
<flint> gotcha... do me a favor, resend the line.  I will shut down the first one...
<flint> ogra, it is a solid truth "any job worth doing is worth doing twice" :^)
<ogra>  rsync -z -a --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/edubuntu/daily-live/current/dapper-install-i386.iso dapper-install-i386.iso dapper-install-i386.iso
<ogra> thats the right one now
<ogra> err
<ogra> STOP
<ogra>  rsync -z -a --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/edubuntu/daily/current/dapper-install-i386.iso dapper-install-i386.iso dapper-install-i386.iso
<ogra> but now
<ogra> *sigh*
<ogra> path was wrong
<flint> ogra this look familiar?
<flint> flint@edubuntu:~/Desktop$ rsync -z -a --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/edubuntu/daily-install/current/dapper-install-i386.iso dapper-install-i386.iso dapper-install-i386.iso
<flint> receiving file list ...
<flint> rsync: link_stat "edubuntu/daily-install/current/dapper-install-i386.iso" (in cdimage) failed: No such file or directory (2)
<flint> 0 files to consider
<flint> sent 4 bytes  received 17 bytes  14.00 bytes/sec
<flint> total size is 0  speedup is 0.00
<flint> rsync error: some files could not be transferred (code 23) at main.c(1173)
<flint> flint@edubuntu:~/Desktop$
<flint> I will copy and paste from the master....
<flint> ogra, ollie, look on the bright side.  We only need to get this working once and it should work for a while!
<flint> ogra, it is thinking:
<flint> receiving file list ...
<flint> 1 file to consider
<flint> ogra, this appears to be a good sign... eh?
<ogra> yup, my last line should be ok
<flint> ogra, I presume matt has some gui slop that does this as well.  BTW it just started transfering, must hit the difference!
<ogra> matt has a cronjob that runs at ~2am UTC
<ogra> pulling all live and install CDs
<flint> ogra, while I got you in a mellow mood, what is easybuntu?
<ogra> the same rubbish as automatix
<ogra> just another name
<flint> ogra, ollie, if there is a bottom to feed on I will find it first! :^)
<Yagisan> I hate that stuff - I stopped answering support emails as soon as I see automatix listed
<ogra> yup
<flint> note how I did not mention the "a" word out of respect...
<flint> Actually jsgotangco mentioned ezbuntu last night...
<flint> I believe I shall put together a series of bash scripts called "hardbuntu"...
<Yagisan> I have a 3rd party repo - I run a non-i386 arch. I'm not debugging someone else's crap that I can't even install - and yes vmwaring it IS too much effort. </rant>
<Yagisan> flint: It's called debian ;)
<flint> Yagisan, Excellent, nothing like a good RANT!!!  and lol to you...
<ogra> Yagisan, actually we have a hardened-ubuntu team ...
<flint> Yagisan, sarge?  
<Yagisan> ogra: I know. I was at the UDU discussions. It didn't get anyware :(
<flint> ogra, ollie be-have security weenies get no respect, and they deserve none.
<Yagisan> flint: pfft
<jsgotangco> ezbuntu?
<Yagisan> ogra: to get decent user transparent security we need to either change the toolchain and/or patch the kernel with parts that will not mainline
<jsgotangco> I did not say antyhing about it
<eds0n> :)
<ogra> Yagisan, i'm neither selinux nor hardened fan :)
<Yagisan> ogra: us security people are willing, but others aren't - so so hardened ubuntu. I make my own in my spare time
<flint> selinux is a way to take a good operating system and run it on an 8 MHz 386.
<Yagisan> ogra: that funny thing is, we can harden it *without* breaking functionallity
* Yagisan isn't a selinux fan.
<ogra> Yagisan, i know ajmich has prepared a lot of stuff, he just doesnt get to finish it
* eds0n slaps ingard
<flint> Yagisan, two words, logging and DAC.
<Yagisan> ogra: yep. I look forward to testing it
<flint> Yagisan, one of the best parts of Ubuntu is to see security models evolve.
<Yagisan> flint: yes, but it does not need to be so heavyweight for Ubuntu's targeted base
<Yagisan> IMHO a great start would be to build everything with a ssp hardened toolchain. makes it harder for buffer overflow attacks
<Yagisan> but binaries work fine
<flint> Yagisan, Python is a very good bedrock.  Here is what I mean by different approaches...
<flint> http://www.flint.com/papers/misste/MISSTE_FINAL.htm
<flint> Yagisan, security is about vulnerability, threat and trust.  It is mostly about people.  It is a social science with a technical component.  It is not a technical subject.
<jsgotangco> we love needless complexity
<flint> anyway, i gotta go burn a cd... ollie it looks like soup.  what is the checkcd command at boot time?
<jsgotangco> it has its own cd integrity test menu entry
<ogra> flint, it has a menu ;)
<flint> jsgotangco, there is nothing wrong with complexity, when done right it is most artful.
<flint> ogra, that is no fun! :^)
<jsgotangco> you might want to try the a11y functionailiy (F4)
<ogra> but looks shiny :)
<flint> jsgotangco, a case in point... a menu, how complex!
<jsgotangco> bah
<flint> ogra, indeed it does - Thanks!
* ogra wonders why Burgwork didnt complain about the countdown anymore
<msoeken> hi, what is the name of the iconset used in edubuntu?
<Yagisan> flint: I'll read your link in a bit. I am rather aware of how e-security works, we are talking about my day job after all
<ogra> msoeken, gartoon
<msoeken> ogra, thanks
<Yagisan> flint: most of my billable hours is basically training users rather then testing security tech and deploying it
* Yagisan off to read link
<flint> Yagisan, my deepest symphathy.  I am trying to avoid security work.  The novelty in the misste approach is that I had two US government broadcast agencies game off each other to improve their security.
<flint> Yagisan, ...and it worked!
<flint> I am off to break Olivers hard work...sksk
* ogra goes ppc live testing
* Yagisan wonders - but I *like* my job now
<Yagisan> night all
<bobulator> hey, has anyone got any idea why i can ping servers, but internet browsing won't work? it's really odd. it works fine on this ibook...
<ogra> in edubuntu ?
<bobulator> yarr
<bobulator> server specifically
<bobulator> although my ubuntu laptop isnt working either
<ogra> breezy or dapper ?`
<bobulator> breezy
<ogra> have a look at /etc/resolv.conf
<bobulator> nameserver 192.168.0.1
<bobulator> thats the AP
<ogra> is a nameserver running on it ? 
<bobulator> if i can fix this router itll make life much easier too
<bobulator> hmm, its an adsl router thing
<bobulator> just 1 eth out
<bobulator> not sure
<ogra> try setting a real nameserver manually to test its the issue 
<ogra> nameserver 217.115.139.139
<bobulator> ok...
<ogra> try that ^^
<bobulator> ok, ill just ahve to unplug this, back in a sec, ta :)
<zerzan> that worked, woo, thanks :)
<zerzan> i was bobulator btw
<ogra> i guessed that :)
<zerzan> right then, next task... hoe can i make the dispplay go above 640x480? :)
<ogra> on the server or on a thin client ? 
<zerzan> sorry for my typing this keyboard is rubbish
<zerzan> server
<ogra> it didnt detect the monitor right it seems ...
<zerzan> yeah 
<zerzan> hmm
<zerzan> not a garphics card thing?
<ogra> you can run: sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg 
<zerzan> *graphics
<ogra> the values there are the autodetected values, change only the resolution, for the rest hit enter
<zerzan> k
<ogra> if that doesnt work, you can try to re run it and select advanced for the monitor and give it the correct hsync and vrefersh values from your monitor
<zerzan> k
<zerzan> so the bottom 3 are selected, 1024 to 640
<ogra> ok
<zerzan> how do i get the hsync and vrefresh values?
<ogra> from your monitor handbook ? 
<zerzan> haha, good one ;)
<zerzan> ill see what happens on defaults
<ogra> err
<ogra> your graphics card has more than 1M ?
<ogra> (note that <=1MB  cards cant do more than 640x480)
<zerzan> dont think so, all the kit we have is hand me downs. my good graphics card broke wjem we did the first install, well annoying
<zerzan> it mgiht be though
<zerzan> it looks quite new
<zerzan> is it worth trying another monitor?
<zerzan> and do i eed to reset/
<ogra> yup
<ogra> if that one doesnt work 
<ogra> check if it reports the right values
<ogra> sudo ddcprobe
<zerzan> yeah it supports it
<ogra> ^^ that reads the monitors BIOS
<zerzan> ill just try a reset then?
<ogra> in fact thats what the X autodetection uses
<zerzan> k
<zerzan> right, reset. brb
<ogra> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg is what resets the config ...
<ogra> oh, you mean the machine 
<zerzan> hmm still doesnt work :( 640x480@60hz
<zerzan> what was the command to test the monitor again? just gonna write it down
<ogra> what kind of graphics card is this ? 
<zerzan> ummm
<ogra> ddcprobe+
<ogra> err omit the +
<zerzan> hmm not sure, is there a command to detect the vid card?
<ogra> lspci 
<ogra> should show you the card
<zerzan> cirrus logic gd 5446
<ogra> oh, good old cirrus ...
<zerzan> haha, are they a bit rubbish?
<ogra> grep Driver| /etc/X11/xorg.conf 
<ogra> nope, but they are around since ages ...
<ogra> might be that it has only 1MB 
<ogra> if its an older model
<zerzan> it does only have 1 meg i think
<ogra> ah, that explains irt 
<ogra> edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf and turn down the DefaultDepth value ...
<ogra> 16 or below should give you more than 640
<zerzan> hmm its o 16 now
<ogra> turn it to 8
<ogra> (even that looks weird)
<zerzan> k
<zerzan> do i need a reset?
<ogra> just hit ctrl-alt-backspace in graphics mode 
<ogra> that restarts the gui
<zerzan> ooh good one,getting lots of top tips :)
<zerzan> hmm its taking its time...
<zerzan> hmm theres a '3D rage II+DVD' knocking about here, reckon thatll be a better bet?
<ogra> yes, i guess so
<zerzan> ok, ill give it a go, thanks laods for your help btw. will i need to rerun that config program again/
<ogra> yup
<zerzan> what was it called?
<ogra> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<zerzan> aweosme, thanks. back in 5...
<zerzan> woo! that worked, thanks :)
<zerzan> so i take it that config file sets the max allowable refresh rates too?
<ogra> :)
<ogra> yup
<zerzan> cool
<zerzan> rightt, now all i need to make work is the network ;)
<zerzan> you should see the motley collection of bits in this room, if we can make them all work it'll be a miracle
<ogra> heh
<zerzan> first thing is, i take it i disable the dhcp server on everyhting except the server?
<ogra> yup
<zerzan> cool
<ogra> makes sense
<ogra> else they'll clash
<zerzan> and then i plug the server, the adsl router jobby and all the thins straight into a switch
<ogra> yup
<ogra> see the wikipage from the topic, there are some hints
<zerzan> if i disable the dhcp server on a regular router, will it act as a switch for all intents and purpouses?
<ogra> it should, yes
<zerzan> cool, i found teh edubuntu wiki stuff quite thin on the gorund
<zerzan> reet, well i either need to fix one router or find the power suplpy for the other... this could take a while!
<ogra> yes, sorry, havnet come around to update yet ...
<zerzan> its ok, ill write up the problems ive had if you like when it's all finsihed?
<ogra> sure :)
<zerzan> :)
<zerzan> and really, if we can make this stuff work... anyone can make anything work.
<ogra> edubuntu is supposed to be able to make anything work ;)
<zerzan> apart from crap graphics cards :p
<zerzan> most of these network cards dont have net boot either so im gonan need to work out how to boot them from floppy
<ogra> it worked ... it just wasnt pleasnt :)
<zerzan> haha i guess :p
<zerzan> if everyone used irc, lynx and pine we'd be fine
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
<zerzan> cool, i saw that.. when it works, il be impressed :)
<ogra> works for most people .
<zerzan> if you put in a net bootable card should it detect it automaticaly?
<ogra> as long as its PXE it will work out of the box, yes
<zerzan> its been a bit sketchy but then everythings  abit broke and its hard to work out which bit it is...
<zerzan> didnt know if i might need to update the bios on some older ocmputers
<jsgotangco> night
<zerzan> ok...
<zerzan> i dont think you can disable dhcp on this router
<zerzan> if i disable dhcp on the server, will everything work ok?
<zerzan> i gues smy quesiton is: does it matter which box is doing dhcp?
<zerzan> oh well i just found it after all, but i guess the question still stands
<ogra> if you can tell your router how to provide the bootimage and make it point to the right root path for the nfs mount, the you could use the router ...
<zerzan_> ahhh ok
<zerzan_> hmm
<zerzan_> best to leave it off i guess
<ogra> yup
<zerzan_> shall i plug the internet feed into the wan port or just a regular eth port? i sense im not really using it for it's designed purpous any more, bhut not sure how far to push it...
<zerzan> whoops got disconnected
<zerzan> so... if im using a router as a switch (by turning dhcp off) can i still use the wan port for internet access or will i just need to plug it into a regular port?
<zerzan> if that makes sense
<ogra> it should work with the wan port ... 
<ogra> you just need to know whic ip it has if you want to use it as gateway
<zerzan> cool
<zerzan> how do i set it, in the control panel?
<zerzan> oh sod it, here we go
<zerzan> into the depths... 
<zerzan> ok, next question :p
<zerzan> i have a client that it set to net boot, but it doesnt seem to be working... any ideas?
<zerzan> its set to PXE
<ogra> you edited the dhcpd.conf file like the install notes describe ? 
<zerzan> umm
<zerzan> we'll im using a 192.168.0.x setup. so i thgouht i didnt need to?
<ogra> is dhcpd running ? 
<zerzan> yup
<ogra> hmm, then it shoudl work ...
<ogra> whats the error ? 
<zerzan> it doesnt show anyhting up
<zerzan> it searches for a boot record form the floppy
<ogra> then it doesnt netboot 
<zerzan> hm ok
<zerzan> theres a menu i can go into where i can set it to net boot though
<zerzan> and if i put a diff card it in doesnt bring up the option for the menu
<zerzan> 'boot protocol' has the choices PXE or RPL
<zerzan> other options... PnP/BEV boot
<zerzan> default boot (set to network)
<zerzan> local boot (disabled)
<zerzan> prompt time (2)
<zerzan> setup message (enable)
<zerzan> power mngmt (acpi)
<zerzan> pnp/bev boot set to enable btw
<ogra> try to disable that ...
<ogra> if it tries to access the floppy it seems itzs not even trying ...
<zerzan> yea
<zerzan> yeha it just goes straihgt from the option to load the menu to trying to boot from floppy
<Burgwork> ogra, which timer?
<ogra> heh
<ogra> the one in gfxboot of the livecd
<jsgotangco> ogra, it does work on my side, thanks
<zerzan> ooh it says 'boot faliure', how ncie and unspecific
<zerzan> you reckon its probably the network card?
<ogra> might be 
<ogra> jsgotangco, the liveCD ?
<zerzan> right, my freinds giving me a reiki tretment, so i think thats enough for now. thanks a lot ogra, i've learnt a lot! probably back to bother you all later...
<jsgotangco> ogra, yup
<ogra> yay :)
<ogra> zerzan, feel free to :)
<jsgotangco> its nice to see amd64 live performance almost comparable to a 386 install
<jsgotangco> amd64 just flies
<ogra> yeah
<jsgotangco> hrmm after all this time, elkner and kjcole decided to call for help
<jsgotangco> they should have done it ealier ;)
<ogra> heh
#edubuntu 2006-02-16
<mhz> neurogeek: holas
<mhz> neurogeek: you are testing hurd??
<ulinskie> hi ogra 
<ulinskie> Hello people
<mhz_dinner> re
<MotherLUG> Hello All :D
<MotherLUG> I had a look at the edubuntu live CD this morning and I was wondering is there a particular place and way where I can log bugs I have found?
<mhz> MotherLUG: yup
<mhz> http://launchpad.net
<MotherLUG> I just got there
<MotherLUG> and was searching
<MotherLUG> mhz, Is there anywhere in particular that I need to go at launchpad?
<MotherLUG> sorry if I'm a PITA, this is all new to me
<MotherLUG> and I mostly don't want to stuff up
<mhz> MotherLUG: i'll check
<mhz> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
<mhz> MotherLUG: that url
<mhz> neurogeek: hi
<neurogeek> mhz, hello!!
<mhz> neurogeek: nice to see ya
<MotherLUG> mhz, Thankyou for your help
<mhz> MotherLUG: your welcome. Thx for submitting bugs
<mhz> that is one KEY contribution to improve development quality
<ulinskie> mhz, I was trying to modify my theme in the ubuntu wiki, but it is not functioning, then everytime I do it, my computer hangs 
<mhz> ulinskie: ooo
<mhz> that's weired
<mhz> ulinskie: you do it from userPreferences?
<ulinskie> mhz, yes I did it from UserPreferences
<ulinskie> mhz, I tried doing it for at elast 6 times
* mhz is gonna try it, too
<mhz> ulinskie: what theme are you selecting?
<ulinskie> hello mhz sorry my computer hanged up on me, 
<ulinskie> mhz, were u able to answer my query?
<mhz> ulinskie: what theme are you selecting?
<mhz> try now
<ulinskie> edubuntu
* ulinskie is away: visit wahoy.com, zamboanga's free online classified ads
<Godfather85> hi from Russia!
<Godfather85> that differenses: Ubuntu & EdUbuntu?
<ulinskie> hello can anybody help me regarding the changing the theme in the wiki thru UserPreferences, mine always says password does not match even if it is already correct
<jsgotangco> ulinskie, it doesn't happen to my account
<ulinskie> jsgotangco, what theme r u using?
<jsgotangco> edubuntu
<ulinskie> hmm.. do u have the power to reset my password?
<jsgotangco> nope
<ulinskie> I have used in for loggin in
<ulinskie> but it does not work when I modify my user preferences
<ulinskie> that'sweird
<jsgotangco> wiki password is based on your LP account
<ulinskie> wait I'll try again in another machine
<ulinskie> jsgotangco, still not working
<ulinskie> jsgotangco, I have already reset my password
<ulinskie> hmm..this is strange
<jsgotangco> dunno
<jsgotangco> try asking #launchpad
<ulinskie> ok  thanks
<ulinskie> jsgotangco, its a bug 
<jsgotangco> :)
<Flosoft> ogra: u there?
<ogra> Flosoft, yes, i am now :)
<Flosoft> ah ... check  the ltsp channel ogra
<ogra> yes, i saw that ... 
<ogra> what exactly do you mean ? 
<ogra> you want a windown desktop and do an rdp connection to a linux server ?
<jsgotangco> cheers
<Flosoft> yes
<Flosoft> as VNC doesn't start a new Session it is not the thing I need
<ogra> hmm, never played with that ... but it should be possible ... linux speaks rdp ...
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> i've done reverse though
<ogra> vnc *can* start a new session ... try xvnc on gdm ...
<jsgotangco> linux desktop -> windows server
<jsgotangco> (rdp)
<Flosoft> well I need: XP Home >>> Kubuntu Breezy
<ogra> then connect to this via vnc and log in through the exported gdm ... that should work
<ogra> (or kdm even)
<Flosoft> hmmm how do I set this up?
<Flosoft> because it should also adapt the resolution etc.
<ogra> xvnc has the option to connect to the running X server ... just make KDM start and attach xvnc to it ...
<ogra> (its really just a theory, but i guess it can work)
<Flosoft> is that XDMCP?
<ogra> nope, thats vnc then
<ogra> xdmcp means you run kdm on the client and connect through X network transport 
<Flosoft> so that is impossible for windows?
<jsgotangco> oh good udev update
<ogra> xdmcp ? 
<Flosoft> yes
<ogra> i think there are commercial X servers like hummingbird that enable you to do that ...
<ogra> but its pretty expansive 
<ogra> *expensive 
<Flosoft> crap
<ogra> >$500 a seat
<ogra> the vnc solution would be a compromise ...
<jsgotangco> jeezz
<ogra> but would indeed be slower ...
<Flosoft> damn ...
<ogra> freenx could probably help here, i never tried it since we cant include it yet 
<Flosoft> but freenx isn't yet in Breezy or dapper?
<ogra> thats what i wrote ...
<Flosoft> :(
<ogra> it ships its own crippled version of X libs ... we cant support that ...
<ogra> there are efforts going on to make it work with the Xlib from the distro, but thats not done yet ... nomachine doesnt want to take out the proprietary parts ...
<Flosoft> and how do I setup an Image Server? So that Clients in the network boot an Linux image from the Server?
<ogra> thats done by default in edubuntu ...
<Flosoft> I use Kubuntu :S
<ogra> you need a dhcp server that answers to PXE requests first ...
<ogra> the setup of the dhcp server points the client to a tftp server (mostly the same machine) 
<ogra> the tftp server provides a boot image to the client which then gets booted ...
<ogra> the bootimage mounts / via naf from an nfs server (as well mostly the same machine)
<ogra> s/naf/nfs/
<ogra> (what am i typing ... tsk)
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> doesn't that need netboot.gz?
<ogra> the essential bit is the dhcp server 
<Flosoft> hmmm ... well I use my router as dhcp :S
<ogra> which has all the info for the client ... (where the tftp server is, where to mount nfs from etc)
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
<jsgotangco> this one?
<jsgotangco> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
<jsgotangco> ?
<ogra> jsgotangco, thats a installer image ...
<jsgotangco> (for the installer that is)
<ogra> ltsp-server-standalone has all you need ...
<jsgotangco> but you need the same backend right? (dhcpd, tftpd)
<ogra> yup
<jsgotangco> i guess the dhcpd has a directive what to boot i guess
<ogra> nope, it only points the client to the tftpserver ...
<jsgotangco> and the tftpd has the image?
<ogra> yup ...
<ogra> a PXE image that points to the kernel and initramfs ...
<ogra> (which are also serverd by the tftpserver)
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> can i ask something
<jsgotangco> what's the difference between initrd.gz and initramfs?
<ogra> nope, youre not allowed :P
<ogra> initrd only hold the modules dir ... initramfs is a minimal system that contains scripts, binarys and the modules ... way more flexible ...
<jsgotangco> but initramfs is bigger right?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> a bit 
<jsgotangco> the cd installer still uses initrd.gz
<ogra> nope
<jsgotangco> huh?
<ogra> its initramfs as well ... 
<jsgotangco> okay our installation manual is way outdated...
<ogra> look in your /boot dir 
<jsgotangco> (not surprising)
<ogra> initramfs images are called initrd.img ...
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> (historically based i think)
<jsgotangco> its 6.2MB
<jsgotangco> the kernel is 1.3 but i guess that is compressed
<ogra> a netboot image only needs to be 3MB though
<jsgotangco> hmm interesting
<ogra> but the installer initramfs is somewhat special ...
<ogra> it has some extra parts (dont ask which, thats kamion land)
<ogra> recent ltsp initramfs netboot images shouldnt be greater than 4MB ...
<ogra> (else i've failed ;) )
<jsgotangco> hmm i'm getting it better now
<jsgotangco> before i thought it was voodoo
<ogra> the netboot initramfs only needs the network drivers, until recently it shipped everything ...
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> but what about the vga module or whatever graphics it needs?
<ogra> thats in the kernel ...
<ogra> vga16 i think
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> this is quite interesting...
<jsgotangco> ahh need to reboot :/
<jsgotangco> brb
<Yagisan> G'day All
<jsgotangco> hi
* Yagisan wonders why a customer would spend more then $20 on mobile calls to me to dispute a $20 charge on an invoice
<Yagisan> hey jsgotangco what's up
<Yagisan> so odd - when the first thing I said was - I'll correct it.
<jsgotangco> haha
<Yagisan> even sent a free service voucher to them
<Yagisan> yet still not happy. Can't please everyone it seems
<Yagisan> so hows your weekend jsgotangco
<Yagisan> ?
<Yagisan> Is it just me, or is evolution + spamassassin unable to block spam sent as images ?
<jsgotangco> oh i just declined a speaking stint at a local university because they wanted to stage a debate with people from MS
<jsgotangco> good thing the MS folks declined too
<ogra> Yagisan, you have german customers ? thats sounds way to german to play in .au :)
<Yagisan> ogra: no German customers yet. Would you like to be the first ? :)
<ogra> heh, phear me if i sue you for a 20 cent difference in a bill :P
<Yagisan> ogra: BTW why too german ?
<ogra> because i saw people doing that ^^^ ...
<ogra> and its very typical for us :(
<ogra> germans are doctrinarires
<ogra> (at least the majority)
<Yagisan> ogra: They complained about the cost of a weekend call out. IE it cost me $20 to get there and back (they *are* almost an hour away from me) and I charged them at cost. Next time, they can pay before I turn up on the weekend
* Yagisan wonders - if it is so hard to get someone to come out on weekends - is it because the customers don't want to pay ?
<ogra> likely
<Yagisan> hmm - perhaps I should buy a "cluebat" in the sporting goods section to help remind customers that weekends are not free
<ogra> :)
<Yagisan> new terms & conditions. If on a weekend/public holiday/after hours and you need Yagisan, first open your wallet. Do you have at least $20 - if so take all of it out and place in an envelope with Yagisan written on it. Now call Yagisan, when he arrives - hand envelope (and contents) to him. Now describe your problem.
<Yagisan> marvel at how he now recovers your login/internet/whatever password
<jelkner> one of our edubuntu servers has stopped serving clients
<jelkner> mount: Mounting /dev on /root/dev failded: No such file or directory
<jelkner> Target filessystem doesn't have /sbin/init
<jelkner> oh, before that
<jelkner> mount: Mounting /root/dev on /dev/.static/dev failed: No such file or directory
<jelkner> anyone here know what this means?
<Yagisan> jelkner: is that on the client or server ?
<jelkner> the client
<jelkner> i'm talking to you know from the server
<jelkner> so that seems to be working ok
<jelkner> but clients won't boot
<jelkner> s/know/now ;-)
<Yagisan> jelkner: have you tried to reboot the clients ?
<jelkner> Yagisan: yes, serveral times
<jelkner> i also restarted the server
<jelkner> the server comes back up fine
<jelkner> but the clients are not booting
<jelkner> this is in a public library
<jelkner> the librarian called me and told me it has been like this all day (yesterday)
<ogra> jelkner, check if the nfs server is running ...
<ogra> i suppose that breezy ?
<jelkner> yes
<ogra> *thats
<jelkner> i tried:
<jelkner> /etc/init.d/nfs-kernel-server restart
<ogra> ps ax|grep nfs 
<ogra> that should give you some lines
<ogra> then check /etc/exports
<jelkner> ps ax|grep nfs
<jelkner> oops, wrong terminal ;-)
<ogra> additionally make sure there is no other dhcp running anywher
<ogra> e
<jelkner>  ps ax|grep nfs
<jelkner>  9503 ?        S      0:00 [nfsd] 
<jelkner>  9504 ?        S      0:00 [nfsd] 
<jelkner>  9505 ?        S      0:00 [nfsd] 
<jelkner>  9506 ?        S      0:00 [nfsd] 
<jelkner>  9507 ?        S      0:00 [nfsd] 
<jelkner>  9508 ?        S      0:00 [nfsd] 
<jelkner>  9509 ?        S      0:00 [nfsd] 
<jelkner>  9510 ?        S      0:00 [nfsd] 
<ogra> stop pasting please
<jelkner> ok
<ogra> if you need to paste use a pastebot 
<ogra> s/bot/bin
<jelkner> what is a pastebot?
<Yagisan> jelkner: pastebin
<ogra> pastebin.ubuntulinux.nl for example ...
<ogra> so look at /etc/exports 
<Yagisan> or http://pastebin.com/ eg
<ogra> it should have a line pointing to /opt/ltsp
<jelkner> yes
<ogra> ok
<jelkner> pastebin.ubuntulinux.nl doesn't seem to be there
<jelkner> but pastebin.com is
<ogra> then check if the client shows the right "rootserver:" ip on boot ...
<ogra> should be the server ip...
<Yagisan> jelkner: did anything on the network change at all ? anyone adjust the ebubuntu server, put in a new dhcp server ?
<jelkner> no
<jelkner> not that i know of
<jelkner> i'm not here most of the time
<ogra> note that these little internet routers often come with a dhcp server enabled
<jelkner> but the librarian wouldn't do that
<jelkner> ahh
<ogra> so if someone resetted the router or replaced it, it could be that there is one running
<jelkner> but the root server seems correct
<jelkner> Running /scripts/nfs-premount is ok, too, i think
<jelkner> but then nfs: server 192.168.0.254 not responding, timed out
<ogra> so its definately a nfs or a network problem ...
<ogra> the ip is correct i suppose
<jelkner> yes
<ogra> this looks very much like #19196, but if you say it doent boot on second attempt it must be something else ...
<ogra> *doesnt
<jelkner> i tried 5 times
<jelkner> same symptom each time
<ogra> in any case servers dont just stop working, someone must have changed something to cause this
<jelkner> any suggestions on how to diagnose?
<ogra> find out what was changed ...
<jelkner> how?
<ogra> ask ... ?
<Yagisan> jelkner: ask
<jelkner> the librarian doesn't know
<ogra> if you didnt, someone else must have changed something ...
<Yagisan> someone has obviously changed something
<jelkner> people come in all day and use these machines
<Yagisan> kids ? network staff ?
<jelkner> kids and patrons, it's a library
<Yagisan> is there any *new* equipment ?
<ogra> cleaning personal ...
<jelkner> no
<jelkner> could be
<jelkner> but all i have to work with now is me and the machines
<ogra> unplugged the router to put the vaccum cleaner in ... after they replugged, the router reset itself ...
<jelkner> do you think it is the wireless router?
<jelkner> let me try that
<ogra> no idea 
<ogra> but you need to take the whole into account, not only you and the machines ;)
<Yagisan> often new/replacement routers are dropped in straight from the box with dhcp enabled eg for home users. You don't want that for a library
<Yagisan> does the libary offer wireless access for patrons ?
<jelkner> not yet
<jelkner> this whole thing came about because the local friends of the library group (of which i am a member) donated the equipment
<jelkner> for two edubuntu workstations
<jelkner> and a linksys rounter with wireless
<Yagisan> I'd check to see if the routers where replaced/rebooted, make sure no new devices are on the network, and that no one has joined multiple networks with some cable
<jelkner> ok, doing that now...
<Yagisan> causing other dhcp servers to answer the requests
<jelkner> ok, i need to break the network connect and reset the router so i can log into it
<jelkner> thanks all!
<jsgotangco> hiya JaneW 
<jsgotangco> or JaneW 's computer rather
<signifer123> does it matter what permissions libraries have?
<signifer123> soz
<AFDSf> hey
<signifer123> hello.
<AFDSf> mmm was browsing the edubuntu site, and saw a link for the irc chat. I'm a teacher in china, edubuntu looks really good
<ogra> :)
<signifer123> ^^
<AFDSf> thing is...
<AFDSf> of all the ubuntu versions (kubuntu, ubuntu + edubuntu) this is the one that was benefit most from having a live cd
<ogra> thats why we'll have one with the next release ;)
<AFDSf> that's really good to hear
<signifer123> cool...
<signifer123> will it be one cd or like 4 cd's or 1 dvd?
<ogra> feel free to test the daily build of the development version http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/
<AFDSf> every classroom we have computers with crappy win*ows, if I can just go along with a live cd of this..... oh my god HAPPY KIDS!
<AFDSf> ok i'll take a look at it
<ogra> yesterdays build should already be pretty usable ...
<AFDSf> that's excellent
<ogra> apart from regular breakage due to development
<AFDSf> but even so april release date is only 1 month after term start
<ogra> (noetwork interfaces have wrong naming, only english keaboard layout etc...)
<jsgotangco> the livecd though is workstation mode not server
<ogra> yes, it omits all the server bits
<AFDSf> can i ask why would someone use the edubuntu for a server>? I mean aren't they better off with the ubuntu?
<jsgotangco> but gives a good preview of the thin client for whatever its worth :)
<jsgotangco> AFDSf, edubuntu is an LTSP server by default
<ogra> AFDSf, edubuntu is a server distribution by default
<AFDSf> wow
<jsgotangco> yes :)
<ogra> a thin client classrom server ... to use your old hardware as terminals ...
* jsgotangco have to yet rsync the daily though
<AFDSf> i really hate to be dumb, but i thought it was built for kids - why would they use a server? Also what is a ltsp server?
<ogra> jsgotangco, i fixed the lsb issue, but the datacenter is moved around, so the binary doesnt show up yet 
<jsgotangco> AFDSf, for clasroom labs
<jsgotangco> ogra, ahhh so that explains why some services are erratic
<ogra> ltsp == linux terminal server project ...
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco I was here for a bit - just rebooting and blogging etc
<jsgotangco> wow JaneW blogs
<JaneW> taking the kids for a walk, since I have been neglecting them today as I am a bit sick
<jsgotangco> nice
<ogra> you have one powerful server and a bunch of diskless clients (i.e. resembled old PCs without disks) that work as terminals
<Yagisan> AFDSf: the teacher installs it on a server. The kids all use pcs/thin clients attached to the server
<AFDSf> wow that's really technical
<JaneW> jsgotangco: just about my life and such, no real work stuff like you guys ;)
<jsgotangco> AFDSf, but you can still enjoy edubuntu as a workstation for kids :)
<AFDSf> is it possible to use it, say in my situation. Just take a live cd into class and let them use the apps?
* jsgotangco is thinking of an article for freesoftwaremagazine.com
<jsgotangco> AFDSf, yes
<AFDSf> hmmm
<jsgotangco> the livecd has no server stuff
<ogra> AFDSf, it enables schools in poor countries to give every kid a pc workplace at school without spending a lot of money
<AFDSf> can i ask what the advantage with having a server setup is?
<Yagisan> AFDSf: actually its more like - insert cd -> next -> next -> next -> next -> next -> reboot -> edit 1 file. turn on kids computers
<AFDSf> oh...
<ogra> and you only have to manage the stuff on the server ... its very low maintenance work 
<jsgotangco> JaneW, gimme the url if possible :)
<AFDSf> but what does the server actually provide>?
<jsgotangco> whoa edubuntu marketing team in full force
<Yagisan> AFDSf: in a nutshell, everything
<ogra> imagine the terminals like additional keyboard mice and diaplays connected to a single machine
* jsgotangco starts blog stalking
<AFDSf> i can imagine this, but what is the advantage>?
<ogra> you can manage and maintain everything in one place 
<Yagisan> AFDSf: low cost, low maintaince. If a pc breaks it takes 60 seconds to replace it with another working one
<ogra> instead of maintaining say 20 copmputers in a class you only care for one ;)
<jsgotangco> yep
<jsgotangco> and your old machines come back to life
<jsgotangco> (as long as its in a network)
<ogra> if you install a new app, you only have to do it once for everyone
<AFDSf> so what is actually installed on the workstations?
<Yagisan> AFDSf: nothing
<Yagisan> you can take their hard disks out
<jsgotangco> none
<jsgotangco> just a network card
<AFDSf> but surely they need something to tell them to look for a server?
<AFDSf> network boot?
<ogra> yes, the network card ...
<signifer123> yep
<ogra> yup
<jsgotangco> the network card should be able to boot from a network
<Yagisan> either a network bootable card, boot floppy or boot cd
<Yagisan> I wrote a howto on the edubuntu wiki
<AFDSf> a boot cd can make them look for the server?
<ogra> a very good one ;)
<ogra> yup
<AFDSf> ah i see
<Yagisan> thanks ogra
<AFDSf> how long does it take for a workstation to load up from the server on a 100mps lan?
<ogra> Yagisan, i even often use it in #ltsp for ubuntu users :)
<ogra> AFDSf, the 5.10 version takse about 90sec for a standard PC  ... the 6.04 will be ~10-50sec
<Yagisan> ogra: nice :) Should have stuck a link in it to my website - try and get a few paying customers, so I can write more good documentation
<ogra> yeah 
<signifer123> whoag thats faster than i thoguht it would be for cat5 cable...
<AFDSf> i mean i boot ubuntu on my laptop from the harddrive and it takes maybe a couple of minutes... i'm guessing a flashy edubuntu will take 5 mins
<signifer123> edubuntu isn't that mcu hbigger than ubuntu
<ogra> that really depends on the hardware 
<Yagisan> AFDSf: no, takes about as long as a normal ubuntu boot
<AFDSf> but it's gonna be over lan
<ogra> Yagisan, not anymore ;)
<AFDSf> lan is much slower than harddrive
<ogra> Yagisan, usong my amd64 laptop as thin client i can boot in <15sec 
<AFDSf> jesus that's amazing
<AFDSf> i'm gonna try out this server setup on a vm
<ogra> (in dapper with the tweakage thats not completely in the package yet)
<Yagisan> AFDSf: as a ltsp user - I can assure you it boots quick.
<AFDSf> not that i could ever use it
<AFDSf> just interested
<AFDSf> so what is ltsp again?
<ogra> linux terminal server project 
<AFDSf> ah
<ogra> you can read about it on ltsp.org
<AFDSf> for me almost meaningless
<AFDSf> ok
<AFDSf>  cool 
<Yagisan> AFDSf: have you heard of citrix for windows ?
<AFDSf> well i'm really looking forward to seeing the final versions of these live cds
<jsgotangco> edubuntu's ltsp is cutting edge
<AFDSf> i'm dloading the preview right now
<AFDSf> no i haven't
<jsgotangco> its so good i love to bleed
<AFDSf> ok
<AFDSf> 1 more q
<Yagisan> AFDSf: oh, well it's citrix done right
<ogra> note that its still in development until april, so dont expect it to work 100% flawless :)
<ogra> (the liveCd that is)
<AFDSf> is it dead easy to setup the server, i mean for the average school teacher?
<Yagisan> that means it still works better then Windows out of the box
<AFDSf> yes no worries, i'd like to see what it's like though
<ogra> AFDSf, you need to edit one textfile 
<ogra> (to set it up)
<AFDSf> edit one file
<AFDSf> hehehehehe
<ogra> yup
<AFDSf> that can't be too hard
<AFDSf> wow, can we make ubuntu like this too?
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes has all info a teacher needs to set it up
<AFDSf> alright i;m going there
<ogra> ubuntu has ltsp on the Cd, its a bit more work to install it manually there, but not much
<Yagisan> ogra: it's on the cd now ? I needed net access last time
<ogra> edubuntu just does 4 of five needed steps for you ...
<ogra> Yagisan, it was in the ship seed in breezy, so it should be on the CD
<AFDSf> so what can i do if i install ltsp on ubuntu?
<AFDSf> (actually i prefer kubuntu)
<ogra> to do it manually, follow the ThinClientHowto from the wiki ...
<AFDSf> hmmm
<AFDSf> a little confused with ltsp, thin client etc
<AFDSf> not to worry, i'm gonna check this stuff out
<AFDSf> even if it doesn't quite work in my setup i wanna say that it's a fantastic project!
<AFDSf> thanks for all the tips guys
<ogra> in short: sudo apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone openssh-server && sudo ltsp-build-client && sudo gedit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf && sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
<ogra> thast all you need
<ogra> no matter if kubuntu or ubuntu
<AFDSf> btw if someone feels like hacking my system feel free, i;m running as root at the moment 
<ogra> heh
<AFDSf> i don't care
<AFDSf> this is a vm anyway
<AFDSf> i got a snapshot to save the day
<Yagisan> AFDSf:  please don't temp me
<AFDSf> show me how it's done!
<AFDSf> hey one other thing
<AFDSf> is it recommend to install a firewall in ubuntu?
<ogra> no need to
<AFDSf> even if i run ssh server?
<ogra> there are no apps that open any ports to the outside world ...
<ogra> then you open port 22 
<AFDSf> i have a friend in russia, he often logs in via ssh to help me
<AFDSf> yeah i can do it
<AFDSf> but i got no firewall, do i need one if i have port 22 open?
<Yagisan> I'd suggest using a firewall myself
<AFDSf> mmm
<AFDSf> apt-get install ???
<ogra> since ubuntu has no root user and attacks on ssh assume there is one, that should be pretty safe
<AFDSf> ah i disable root login too
<ogra> an attacker would have to guess the name of the adimn user first
<AFDSf> only one user can login via ssh
<Yagisan> ogra: people like me have multi-gig dictionaries
<ogra> every user can, but there is only the admin user who could do harm using sudo
<AFDSf> how can a firewall guard against someone guessing passwords>?
<Yagisan> AFDSf: well, it can stealth you pc from script kiddies
<AFDSf> what would they use to hack my ssh... would they use Guess-Who?
<ogra> in a default ubuntu they had to guess twice ...
<ogra> the user name and the matching password ...
<AFDSf> mm ok
<AFDSf> is firestarter the firewall i need? I have no idea about firewalls in linux
<ogra> imho its useless to have a firewall on a default ubuntu system ... (i know Yagisan will disagree)
<AFDSf> yeah i understand this, but i have port 22 open
<AFDSf> for ssh
<ogra> yes, but you know that ... 
<AFDSf> still don't need firewall?
<ogra> and what would you gain through a firewall ... 
<ogra> yu *want* port 22 open apparently to log in through it ...
<ogra> if you close it through a firewall you cant log in ...
<AFDSf> Yagisan I'd suggest using a firewall myse
<AFDSf> yagisan said, so i just follow advice and ask what firewall i need to look at
<AFDSf> maybe a firewall can protect the computer from port scans
<ogra> but you only have one open port ;)
* jsgotangco doesn't have a firewall in his ubuntu system either
<ogra> and you want this one open if you want to be able to log in
<Yagisan> ogra: yes, but we are both talking about an stock ubuntu desktop. I will apply the defense in depth, even though I know it makes little difference on most desktops
<jsgotangco> on my server, i'm only worried more on sql injections
<AFDSf> and if a run a webserver on port 80 and ssh on 22 i still don't need a firewall>?
<Yagisan> ogra: I rather the casual troublemaker not even notice the system is there
<jsgotangco> and that's more into program design rather than server config :)
<ogra> AFDSf, what would you do with a firewall for port 80 ?
<ogra> if you lock it down, nobody will see your websites :)
<Yagisan> he doesn't have a website their, I already checked
<AFDSf> so Yagisan what is a firewall program? I mean i guess i do "apt-get install....."
<Yagisan> AFDSf: BTW only 49 days uptime
<ogra> firewall program is already a wrong term made up by some silly marketing guys ...
<ogra> in fact its a port blocker 
<Yagisan> AFDSf: ubuntu has a built in firewall. it is called iptables.
<ogra> a firewall is a standalone machine that secures a LAN from a WAN
<Yagisan> ogra: the name is more descriptive when you compare it to a firewall in the firefighting sense
<AFDSf> yeah but then why does anyone ever use a firewall? I use a firewall underwindows even if i run a webserver, just make sure requests are forwrded to the server. The firewall protects the server from port scans so dickheads don't even see i have open ports and hence don't attempt a hack
<Yagisan> it's a zone that the fire can't cross to cause more damage
<Yagisan> AFDSf: you didn't describe a firewall under windows.
<ogra> AFDSf, windows has *many* open ports you should block
<ogra> thats why it makes sense to use a portblocker in windows
<Yagisan> AFDSf: a firewall works more like a traffic cop, deciding who may enter and who may not
<AFDSf> i'm aware of this, but even if it didn't and only 80 was open for webserver i'd still use a firewall
<Yagisan> AFDSf: as someone that gets payed to do this as a living
<ogra> Yagisan, if you have a brick wall with no doors behind the firewall, whats the usecase for the firewall (to come back to your firefighter example)
<Yagisan> the only advantage to you is that you may hide the system from inexperienced trouble makers
<AFDSf> a firewall sees when a single ip attempts to open multiple ports and promtly blocks the ip. Thus even a server listening on port 80 can't be discovered. The firewall won't block a single request to port 80 from a client and so the server remains useful. So I'm wondering what firewall i can setup on ubuntu?
<Yagisan> ogra: is the brick wall heritage listed ? ;)
<Yagisan> AFDSf: that is not a firewall
<AFDSf> what is it?
<Yagisan> that is a basic intrusion detection system
<AFDSf> oh hmm
<Yagisan> one that will get many false possitives
<AFDSf> what's the equivalent on ubuntu?
<ogra> AFDSf, firestarter is probably the best you can use if you want an easy gui ... but still there is no real use for it imho :)
<AFDSf> ah ok
<Yagisan> probably portsentry if we have it
<AFDSf> so let me ask in what situation would I even need any of these?
<Yagisan> you have multiple pcs
<AFDSf> multiple pcs doing what?
<ogra> to secure a whole network from the world ...
<Yagisan> and from the users
<AFDSf> so even i run a server system don't need this software?
<ogra> you have 10 pcs in a company ... so you would put a firewall (as in firewall machine) in place so nobody can get in from the internet ...
<AFDSf> just let the ports be open to all and sundry?
<AFDSf> ok i see when used as a nat
<Yagisan> AFDSf: ports *are not open* by default in ubuntu systems
<AFDSf> yeah i already got told this
<ogra> for protecting your network from the inside, i think a good rights management is more effective than having firewalls on all pcs
<AFDSf> i just asked if i;'m running shh and webserver in ubuntu do i need a firewall?
<Yagisan> ogra: I prefer a well designed network to complement that
<AFDSf> i know you just checked my system i have neither running at the moment, yesterday i did, and later i hope to
<ogra> thats why i'm only a developer and you are a security guy ;)
<Yagisan> ogra: yes, but between the two of us, we can make a secure, functional network
<ogra> heh, yes
<AFDSf> so an ubuntu server does not need firewall or intrusion detection?
<Yagisan> AFDSf: if you have *no* other services running, and implemented good access control, then yes you can get away with no firewall
<ogra> intrusion detection might make sense ... but i dont run a portblocker on my servers ...
<AFDSf> intrusion detection is firestarter?
<Yagisan> ogra: intrusion detection works best on both sides of a firewall system, to see what leaks through
<Yagisan> AFDSf: what sort - network or system ?
<ogra> yip
<AFDSf> alright
<Yagisan> AFDSf: two main types of IDS
<AFDSf> i try this, makes me feel a little safer
<AFDSf> mmm
<AFDSf> what are they?
<Yagisan> one designed to check the network, the other to check a single system
<Yagisan> eg snort is the 880 pound gorilla of network intrusion detection systems
<AFDSf> snort
<Yagisan> while aide is a good host intrusion detection system
<Yagisan> AFDSf: my www server
<Yagisan> I have a firewall on it - I filter certain types of traffic. I have a host intrusion detection system, and it is locked down pretty tightly
<AFDSf> hmm well
<AFDSf> i'm just gonna start up a server with no firewall etc and see how long it lasts on the www
<AFDSf> be interesting to see
<Yagisan> you'll probably get your first script kiddie attacks withing 24hrs
<AFDSf> what must i install to preven this?
<Yagisan> AFDSf: you last reboot your system christmas eve ?
<Yagisan> AFDSf: you can't
<Yagisan> AFDSf: if they can connect to your www server, they will attack it
<AFDSf> yeah
<Yagisan> I get them all the time
<AFDSf> so they attaxk every server on the web?
<Yagisan> yes
<AFDSf> what is it that stops them?:
<AFDSf> i mean what can u do to make it so difficult the go to find an easier tartget elsewhere?
<AFDSf> THEY GO TO FIND
<Yagisan> 1) run ubuntu
<AFDSf> 2)?
<AFDSf> cross my fingers? :D
<Yagisan> 2) keep your system up to date.
<AFDSf> ok is there number 3?
<Yagisan> 3) test your system regularly yourself, or hire someone to do it
<AFDSf> ok easy with auditor security
<Yagisan> I'd recommend myself
<AFDSf> 4 ?
<jsgotangco> lol
* jsgotangco notes down Yagisan as potential contractor
<AFDSf> m
<AFDSf> is there a 4?
<Yagisan> no essential things that I've missed
<AFDSf> mm cool
<Yagisan> 4) only run what is needed and nothing more
<AFDSf> fine, tomorrow i will get a server setup then you can try and do your best to screw it in the ass
<Yagisan> 5) run that with the lowest privileges needed to get the job done.
<jsgotangco> Yagisan, what about those that run their services in an external third party, ie, colo, hosting, etc.?
<jsgotangco> what should they be concerned about? its mostly httpd services running
<AFDSf> ah! my edubuntu cd is downloaded let me go and check it out. Thanks for all the advice peeps, I found this really enlightening. Cheers.
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: I've yet to find a colo that passed my security test :( ever wonder why I self-host on an ubuntu box ?
<jsgotangco> well colo are notorious
<jsgotangco> i had one colo and it was always a disaster
<AFDSf> see you around soon
<jsgotangco> but how about those dedicated hosts
<Yagisan> no worries mate
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: if you have root/admin/supervisor - harden it like it is you box
<jsgotangco> add IDS even?
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: main thing to rememember is to audit the cgi scripts. most www servers are compromised via cgi script errors
<jsgotangco> ahh right
<Yagisan> a host-based one is a good idea - and keep good backups
<Yagisan> I have more shameless promotion of myself at http://www.eyagiconsulting.com
<Yagisan> although I should add more content, incl tutorials
<Yagisan> anyway I should drag myself into bed. 4am now
<jsgotangco> me too
<jsgotangco> 1am
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> cheers
<Yagisan> night all. btw jsgotangco if your serious about that contracting thing, email me
<jsgotangco> yep
<C-O-L-T> does exist a kind of bitcomet program for linux?
<jsgotangco> Yagisan, yep..i have some stuff in spirit connect, i might just
<signifer123> Good Day, Again...
<signifer123> Snowing here...
<mhz> dead hot here
<signifer123> where are you?
<signifer123> south america?
<mhz> signifer123: yeah, Chile
<mhz> 3x C
<signifer123> so next release is april right?
<mhz> april 20th if no Murphy's around
<signifer123> k
<signifer123> frozen already?
<mhz> nope
<mhz> soon to be
<signifer123> :_p
<signifer123> have a whats new for it yet?
<yvesC> ogra, a question gcompris related
<yvesC> I suppose we are too late for 7.3 in drapper?
<ogra> yvesC, i could try, but i doubt i get approval
<yvesC> It's because we have a anoying bug in 7.2. Could a 7.2.2 be approval, just for this bug ?
<mhz> gcompris is KEY in edubuntu selling points
<ogra> (dapper will be supported for 3 years, its unlikely to get a new upstream in this late)
<ogra> 7.2.2 should be no problem
* mhz understands
* mhz understands, unfortunately :)
<ogra> i also noted a crasher that i didnt have time to track yet ... is that related ?
<yvesC> Bug#351978: gcompris: administration mode do not work in debian BTS.
<ogra> oki, thats enough to push it through i think
<yvesC> Ok, we do the 7.2.2 tonight.
<mhz> does 'push through' mean 'try to include it' ?
<ogra> great ...
<yvesC> Where did you had a crash ?
<ogra> it seems to crash after some time ... unrelated to the action ...
<ogra> but crahsers are fine to track after the freeze still 
<yvesC> strange. 
<ogra> currently i'm under heavy pressure to get the last features into ltsp before 23rd
<ogra> i'll track bugs afterwards ...
<bdoin> hi ogra
<ogra> hi bdoin 
<yvesC> bdoin, ogra just said 7.2.2 will be ok for drapper, but 7.3 is too late.
<ogra> likely ... i'll have to talk to matt ...
<ogra> probably he'll even approve 7.3 ... i wont catch him before monday though
<bdoin> so you want me to do a 7.2.2, I just made a 7.2.1 yesterday and have to make a 7.3RC1 today. 
<yvesC> I said we do a 7.2.2 tonight, in fact, bdoin you must do a 7.2.2 tonight.
<yvesC> 7.2.1 is not fully corrected. 
<mhz> oh, yes, it means "try to include it"
<ogra> as i said, i wont get him before monday, so you guys have time ... 
<ogra> dont get in a hurry everything with 7.2 in front will be easy to get in ...
<ogra> 7.3 will need some begging and a good reason :)
<ogra> (and a small diff would help as well)
<bdoin> ok
<bdoin> can I provide only a diff
<ogra> no, a 7.2.2 is fine, i mean the diff between versions ...
<ogra> the smaller this is, the easier i'll get it in
<ogra> i supposed 7.2 -> 7.3 will be bigger than 7.2 -> 7.2.2
<yvesC> Yes. 7.2 -> 73 has new activities, new images files for them, change in almost all our xml menu files.
<ogra> yes, thats what i suspected ...
<yvesC> 7.2 -> 7.2.2 is 20 lines, or something like that.
<ogra> thast fine, i can almost guarantee that i can get a 20 line change in
<yvesC> If i change breezy to drapper in my sources.list, i will get the actual drapper with the crash in gcompris ?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but you'll likely need to upgrade everything ...
<ogra> might be caused by something else, it doesnt need to be gcompris itself ...
<yvesC> if my computer works again after that, i am ok. I want check this crash cause.
<ogra> ok
<ogra> i'll check myself latest after 23rd ...
<yvesC> Thank's
<Lord_Athur> :O
<Lord_Athur> there are problems with the ubuntu page
<ogra> nope
<ogra> announced last week ...
<ogra> everything apart from releases.u.c and archive.u.c is down ...
<ogra> maintenance work ...
<Lord_Athur> ogra I can't enter to the edubuntu page....
<ogra> yes
<ogra> read what i wrote
<Lord_Athur> wait
<Lord_Athur> sorry :P
<ogra> :)
<ogra> its a planned outage for mainteance ...
<ogra> will last 90min to 6h ...
<Lord_Athur> thanks fot the information ogra 
<Lord_Athur> :O I wanted to download the edubunyu iso :P
<Lord_Athur> :O I wanted to download the edubuntu iso :P
<ogra> oh, sad ... :(
<Lord_Athur> jajaja
<ogra> the released versions are available ...
<Lord_Athur> now?
<ogra> but not the server with the dailies ...
<ogra> yup
<ogra> release.ubuntu.com should be there 
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> I will see it
<ogra> its redirected to sweden
<Lord_Athur> :O
<Lord_Athur> ogra, 
<yvesC> FYI, screenshot of new menu in next 7.4 (or 8) are here, with others activities: http://fynl.free.fr/dotclear/index.php?2006/01/31/106-quelques-nouvelles-de-gcompris-7-3-et-7-4
<Lord_Athur> the page you said is not there
<Lord_Athur> the release.ubuntu.com address 
<ogra> yvesC, cool !
<ogra> Lord_Athur, releases, not release
<Lord_Athur> :O
<Lord_Athur> i only pasted what you told me
<ogra> sorry
<ogra> anyway, its slow ... just trying to get it here
<Lord_Athur> yes
<Lord_Athur> this is there
<ogra> http://archive.ubuntu.com/mirror/cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/
<ogra> thats faster ;)
<Lord_Athur> ok thanks again
<Lord_Athur> ogra, there are only DVDs of breezy (i want a breezy cd image)
<ogra> http://archive.ubuntu.com/mirror/ubuntu-releases/edubuntu/breezy/
<ogra> try that one then :)
<Lord_Athur> that is the right
<yvesC> Can someone give the drapper's line for the sources.list, please ?  I got  an error
<Lord_Athur> :O
<ogra> just replace breezy with dapper everywhere
<Lord_Athur> ogra, the page is not fine
<ogra> and run apt-get update
<Lord_Athur> i could not download it
<ogra> Lord_Athur, whats wrong ? 
<Lord_Athur> but don't worry, i will try after
<yvesC> Couldn't stat source package list http://archive.ubuntu.com drapper/main Packages 
<Lord_Athur> the download does not start
<ogra> it doe shere
<ogra> yvesC, did you run sudo apt-get update ? 
<ogra> (works fine here)
<ogra> yvesC, drapper is wrong, its called dapper :)
<yvesC> sorry, my fault. it's not drapper, but dapper.
<yvesC> thanks
<ogra> :)
<lucasvo> yvesC: it's dapper dRake, not dRapper dake
<ogra> heh
#edubuntu 2006-02-17
<yvesC> ogra, 7.2.2 is in sourceforge.
<ogra> cool, thanks ... i'll contact mdz and clearify the freeze exception
<yvesC> who is mdz ?
<ogra> matt zimmerman, my CTO and the one who decides freeze exceptions ...
<yvesC> ok.
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<signifer123> cya
<Lord_Athur> pitux, 
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> Are you ready to work in our traslating project?
<Lord_Athur> mhz,  lo dije bn?
<Lord_Athur> :O
<Lord_Athur> hi arkan0x 
<arkan0x> hi Lord_Athur 
<Lord_Athur> have you got new news about the cdsl meeting?
<Lord_Athur> I had to leave you early, but.....
<arkan0x> Lord_Athur, not
<Lord_Athur> hey
<Lord_Athur> :O
<Lord_Athur> estas en el canal -es
<Lord_Athur> :P
<Lord_Athur> .o I've to go
<Lord_Athur> bye
<pitux> Lord_Athur, hello
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> I've go again
<signifer123> good morn
<flint> ogra, ollie you around?
<ogra> flint, yup
<ogra> (partially at least)
<flint> ogra, i am in a zope3 class on #schooltool but will stop in from moment to moment...
<ogra> oki
<mhz_CSS> .oO(ogra's back is not here) 
<mhz_CSS> :D
<ogra> heh
<ogra> no, but i was planning to have a bit of sunday, since i cant do much ... the servers in the datacenter are still getting shuffled around, so its kind of hard to fix things ..
<mhz_CSS> indeed
* mhz_CSS is trying diff CSS moin stuff to see if they can be applied to our site
<yvesC> ogra, i have ugraded on dappper my  ppc bbox.  It''s reallyy unsstable... Gnome freeze often :-/
<ogra> oh ? 
<ogra> i'm currently working on a g4 ibook ... (and do my main work on it since weeks) no instability so far
<yvesC> Not gnome, but something related to the mouse. The mouse movve but cannottt chage windows on panel
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> what kind of ppc is that ? 
<yvesC> And the keyboard give me multiple letters sometimes, like in line before
<yvesC> Powermac Bi G4 867 mirrored doors.
<ogra> sounds like a kernel or X problem 
<ogra> try asking in #ubuntu-kernel if there are known problems ...
<yvesC> gcompris crashes: yes, often. Something related to sound, gcompris -m does not crash so often.
<ogra> what does -m do ? 
<yvesC> mute (no sound)
<ogra> ah
<signifer123> sounds kernalish to me :-p
<ogra> the newest firefox forbids LD_PRELOAD, doe gcompris somewhere use LD_PRELOAD for sound stuff ?
<ogra> *does
<yvesC> SDL_Mixer plays sound for us..
<ogra> that should be fine ...
<ogra> we just have to drop LD_PRELOAD from all apps that use libesd ...
<ogra> else the half of the world crashes
<ogra> but SDL should be fine
<yvesC> Mummmm just now i cannot quit xchat the mouse does not answer onn cliick.
<yvesC> It's probably X, i can switch sessions   with ctl+alt+fn and others sessions get the click.
<ogra> yeah, sounds like X 
<ogra> what kind of youse is that ? 
<ogra> *mouse
<yvesC> 3 buttons 
<yvesC> usb
<ogra> hmm, might also be a udev issue ...
<ogra> even x is more likely
<yvesC> ogra, from gdb point of view gcompris crashes seems related to gobject (glib).  Without sounds it  works  fine.  I am going to investigate a  bit more
<ogra> great, thanks .. but as i said, there is no hurry, we have 2 months for bugfixing ;)
<ogra> so take your time ...
<mhz_CSS> .oO(those gcompris screenshots do look terrific)
<yvesC> mhz_CSS, thanks.
<mhz_CSS> thank you for that real cool job.
<mhz_CSS> gcompris is projecting as very good project, providing terrific solution for teachers, parents and kids
<signifer123> gcompris is in 6.04 right?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> its one of our killer apps
<yvesC> thanks again. we just do thnks we like our kids play with.
<signifer123> o ok
<signifer123> :-p
<signifer123> hey
<Lord_Athur> hi
<signifer123> hey
<signifer123> hello
<TOZTWO> Hello.
<Lord_Athur> hello
<Lord_Athur> xD
<signifer123> :-p
<flint> ogra, you alive?
<ogra> flint, about to go to bed
<flint> ogra, ltsp-client-builder failed... 
<ogra> whats up ? 
<ogra> yes, i know
<flint> hit you in the morning... got an idea or two.
<ogra> the inputattach fix isnt built yet
<flint> let me stew over night... get some sleep dream gread dreams... sksk
<ogra> and since tomorrow most likely gnome will break, flight 4 will still take some days
<flint> bona note!
#edubuntu 2006-02-18
<Kaiser_Sleeps> <grin> i just found all my edubuntu-devel email!
<Kaiser_Sleeps> it was in ubuntu-devel :/ 
<ogra> improve your filters :)
<Kaiser_Sleeps> ogra: i just did :)
<Kaiser_Sleeps> bblish
* ulinskie is away: visit wahoy.com, zamboanga's free online classified ads
<sniff> hey peeps!
<sniff> I just setup an edubuntu server!
<sniff> amazing
<jsgotangco> nice ;)
<sniff> there is a problem, a client can start to load up from the server but then stops :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<sniff> it says "Begin: running /scripts/nfs-premount.....
<sniff> [05:54]  <sniff> then it says "done"
<sniff>  the system stops there
<sniff> jsgotangco can u suggest anything i might do?
<highvoltage> sniff: is this the first client you booted from the server?
<highvoltage> sniff: you might just need to restart
<highvoltage> (the client)
<sniff> ok
<sniff> i will try
<sniff> it is the first time i booted from the server
* ulinskie is back (gone 03:45:43)
<sniff> hey
<sniff> i got the edubuntu ltsp server running and it looks fab. But when the clients load up their fonts and icons are different, doesn't really look any good, does anyone know why this may be?
<sniff> hello peeps? can anyone help please?
* ulinskie is away: 
<ogra> sniff, i assume you use the same user on all clients ... gnome-settings-daemon has a bug that prevents it from working if you are logged in multiple times with the same user ...
<ogra> use different users
<jsgotangco> ogra, hmmm still some issues with lsb
<ogra> jsgotangco, the buildds are broken since 2 days ...
<ogra> not much i can do
<jsgotangco> :/
<ogra> the amd64 lsb breakage is something different btw ...
<jsgotangco> i'll just do the live first
<ogra> its caused by oversizing ...
<ogra> live didnt change either due to no buildds running ...
<jsgotangco> ogra, edubuntu live seems fine though...
* jsgotangco looking at it now
<ogra> yes, it wont have changed since last time yoou tried ... :)
<jsgotangco> the only difference is that im testing it in a pentium d system now
<ogra> oh, ah :)
<spacey> ogra: btw, willow works fine in production :)
<ogra> yay
<spacey> never crasht at least
<spacey> :)
<ogra> there is still the issue with python-profiler ... i'd really love to know if thats really needed ...
<ogra> it would keep it in multiverse :(
<spacey> the multiverse thingy
<spacey> ye
<signifer123> morn...
<ogra> but i'm to busy with ltsp and CD builds and that wont change before feature freeze
<spacey> if i could do python i would help :p
<spacey> but i never touched it
<ogra> i'll look at it, but there is not much chance to get it into dapper after feature freeze
<jsgotangco> hmm how does Gnome chemistry utils fare?
<ogra> there is a lot going on in MOTUSience wrt gnome chemistry utils ...
<spacey> maybe someone else here has python skill?
* jsgotangco hides
<simondawes> need advice pleas. downloaded Edubuntu i386 ISO image twice now. burnt to CD using ISO settings .Tied to install but takes for ever seems to just lock up half way through. i know its not a harware problem as similar downloaded Ubuntu and burn installs fine
<jsgotangco> breezy?
<TOZTWO> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes says under Known Issues.....
<TOZTWO> "During install while the LTSP client environment is being set up, the progress reporting is a bit poor (expect this step to take about 10 min)."
<ogra> yeah...
<ogra> you can switch to tty3 (alt-f3) to see more progress
<simondawes> I'll try this thanks
<SiennaLizard> Hello everyone. Has anyone done an Edubuntu LTSP install here? Maybe for a school?
<SiennaLizard> Or are we all holding out for Dapper?
<ogra> SiennaLizard, there are several schools using edubuntu 
<ogra> dapper will have a lot of improvements in ltsp though ... 90% of development in edubuntu happened in tlsp this relase cycle
<ogra> *ltsp
<SiennaLizard> Cheers, Ogra. That's very good news. It's just things like audio that I don't fully understand with ltsp. I'd rather like to get a load of thin clients for this school I'm working for, but it would be the anciliary things like the local device stuff (sound, USB) that kept me from doing a full roll-out.
<ogra> local devices were deferred for next release ... sound is in ...
<SiennaLizard> are there any thin clients you'd particularly recommend to work with ltsp? What have you used for testing?
<SiennaLizard> i've been practicing with boot floppies and old laptops at the moment...
<ogra> the via C3 based ones i tested here are very slow ... 
<ogra> booting my amd64 laptop as thin client takes only 15sec though ...
<ogra> i'd recommend something PIII based with at least 64MB better 128MB 
<ogra> PII should also be fine ... 
<ogra> but the fully integrated CPU/sound/graphics based clients really suck ...
<signifer123> p2 are like 300 mhz :-P
<ogra> thats fine 
<signifer123> thin client?
<ogra> yup
<signifer123> i thoguht it was full client :-p
<SiennaLizard> fat client? 
<ogra> i mean 500Mhz is still better, but 300 will suffice ...
<ogra> i havent done anyy testing with fat clients ...
<SiennaLizard> right. cheers, Ogra.
<signifer123> standalone pc not fat or thin or dumb :-p
<ogra> but 126MB upwards should do ...
<ogra> and ~5-600Mhz ...
<signifer123> you guys have a thin client gui yet?
<signifer123> for automating mroe of the setup etc...
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
<ogra> working on it for dapper+1
<ogra> feel free to help ;)
<signifer123> far enough that its in 6.04?
<ogra> dapper+1 is 6.10
<signifer123> ok
<ogra> only the dhcpd.conf editing works so far, i have no time to work on gui stuff currently, need to get all these new nifty features into ltsp first :)
<signifer123> :_p
<ogra> then i can add guis for everything ;)
<signifer123> :)
<signifer123> it won't let me add login sessions :(
<ogra> ?
<ogra> whats "it" ?
<signifer123> LTSP manager?
<signifer123> does it save yet?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> as i said, the only working thing yet is the dhcpd.conf handling ...
<ogra> adding the lts.conf handling is easy as well ...
<signifer123> ohh...
<signifer123> well i don't know anything about either config so i couldn't really help that much :-P
<ogra> but the login session stuff needs to be prepared in ldm first ... 50% of the code is in there already, but the other 50% are missing
<ogra> (ldm heeds a config or session file and code that reads it)
<ogra> *needs
<signifer123> hows the student cp doing? http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/student-control-panel_shot.png
<signifer123> dahh.... it crashed...
<ogra> i'll cut out the buttons for vnc and remote execution, so its basically usable for monitoring students and logging them out in dapper ...
<signifer123> ok...
<_sniff> hey i'm a teacher in china, i'm looking to convert a school's systems to this edubuntu. I must say the idea is fantastic. Right now I;m running a vm network consisting of client and edubuntu server. But there are some problems....
<_sniff> most noticeably is that the client has different fonts and the icon scheme is different (much less interesting looking). Also during boot several problems are found with temp files etc.
<_sniff> any ideas on how to fix these up? I don't wanna roll this out on 200 systems only to find it has some quirks that i don't know how to iron out
<ogra> _sniff, there is a bug in gnome that breaks icon themes if you use the same user twice ...
<ogra> use different users and it should be fine
<_sniff> ok and what about the fonts?
<ogra> thats related 
<_sniff> also i don't quite understand about using the same user twice... does this mean each time someone logs on to the computer i must create a new user account?
<ogra> there is a tool called gnome-settings-daemon that cares for themes, fonts and icons ... it has the bug ...
<ogra> you should have an account for every student ...
<_sniff> this isn't the setup i was after
<ogra> there is a bug filed in gnomes bugzilla about it, but i dont know how fast they'll fix it 
<_sniff> actually my test network only has one client so how did i use the same user twice?
<ogra> you are logged in on the server and on the client with the same user i guess
<_sniff> ah i think that's right
<ogra> :)
<_sniff> i'm a bit dumb!
<_sniff> ok
<_sniff> two other things that bug me.... one is: if a client doesn't support network boot what options are there for starting it up to recognize the network?
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
<ogra> :)
<_sniff> what would i have to do to a stanrd ubuntu/kubuntu installation to make it work the same as edubuntu with regards the serving a clienting (i don't want all the games etc)
<ogra> check the wiki for ThinClientHowto
<_sniff> is it possible to use the installation cd of edubuntu to install a few files on to potential clients so they can boot and use the server.... or must rom images be made?
<ogra> you will need the rom images from rom-o-matic# ...
<_sniff> ok understood
<_sniff> sorry, but what does it involve to convert and installation of kubuntu or ubuntu into a server so that it can work similarly to edubuntu?  Is it a lot of work?#
<ogra> see the ThinClientHowto ... its in fact only five steps you need to do 
<ogra> its all on the wiki
<_sniff> the page doesn't load for me...
<_sniff> hmm
<_sniff> isn't it ltsp server setu?
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientHowto
<_sniff> ah
<_sniff> ogra are u running ubuntu/kubuntu now?
<_sniff> thank you that work
<ogra> _sniff, i'm writing the ltsp fot it :)
<ogra> so yes, i run it 
<_sniff> kubuntu?
<_sniff> ubuntu?
<ogra> ltsp is the same for all three ...
<ogra> but i develop edubuntu as well ...
<_sniff> well
<ogra> i run ubuntu on the laptop i'm currently on... but have also several edubuntu installations here
<_sniff> i wish the icon theme from edubuntu could be used in ubuntu as standard, it's much less drab
<ogra> you can just install gartoon-icon-theme and select it :)
<ogra> the package is in ubuntu as well 
<_sniff> gartoon
<_sniff> ok that's ace
<_sniff> am i right in thinking gnome has a substantially lower drain on system resources?
<_sniff> than hde?
<_sniff> kde
<ogra> not substantially ... but its less, yes 
<ogra> KDE will eat about 150MB per thin client on the server, gnome is happy with about 120
<_sniff> hmm?
<_sniff> the server needs 150mb of ram per client connected?
<ogra> with KDE 
<ogra> (not connected but per logged in user)
<ogra> gnome only needs 100-120
<_sniff> so 50 clients=  6gb ram?
<ogra> if you want it really low profile, use xubuntu-desktop (xfce)
<ogra> yes, about that size ...
<_sniff> jesus
<_sniff> that's impossible here
<ogra> but only if they are logged in simultaneously
<_sniff> mmm well the reason why we have 50 computers is because we need that many
<ogra> so install xubuntu-desktop, that has a way smaller memory footprint (didnt measure how much, but 32-64MB shoudl be ok)
<signifer123> 2 gig ram 5 gig swap?
<ogra> you wont be happy if the machine starts swapping ...
<SiennaLizard> is that strictly true, ogra? doesn't linux share loaded code between processes to some extent?
<_sniff> mmm how do i get the desktop to change to xfce
<ogra> SiennaLizard, yes, thats already in that numbers ...
<ogra> _sniff, just install xubuntu-desktop, it should just work ...
<SiennaLizard> gawd.
<ogra> SiennaLizard, there is a table with exact numbers from highvoltage (jonathan carter) on the edubuntu-devel mailing list, look it up in the archive ...
<_sniff> what if one is running a vanilla installation of kubuntu or ubuntu... how much does kde and gnome need>?
<_sniff> not ltsp or anything
<ogra> not less than 256MB 
<ogra> and a decent amount of CPU speed
<ogra> you *can* run it with 128, but thats no fun at all 
<signifer123> evne if you use openbox or ion ?
<signifer123> even*
<ogra> and will start swapping as soon as you open more than 2 websites in firefox
<ogra> signifer123, that was not the question :)
<ogra> indeed a *box windowmanager running standalone will need much... but you loose a lot in usability
<signifer123> ogra, i know but i thought maybe the lesser ones would run faster on lower system...
<signifer123> bit late :-p
<_sniff> what does gnome need? and what does kde  need?
<ogra> and in case you start a gnome or kde program, it still loads all the librarys and tools that are needed in the background
<ogra> _sniff, standalone ? 
<_sniff> yes
<ogra> see above ... 
<_sniff> kde and gnome have the same memory requirements?
<ogra> wo work fluid with them i'd recommend at least 256MB 
<ogra> gnome has a bit less memory reqs ...
<_sniff> these memory requirements are greater than win xp
<ogra> but i wouldnt run either of them with 128MB if you dont want unhappy users
<_sniff> mm i see
<ogra> it runs with 128MB ...
<signifer123> knoppix says you cna run it with kde at 96 mb
<ogra> signifer123, a recent one ? 
<_sniff> what would you use for shit computers with like 64mb?
<ogra> _sniff, ltsp and a powerful server
<signifer123> *box
<signifer123> or that^^
<_sniff> but standalone systems
<ogra> _sniff, xfce might work fine with 64MB ... i never tried it on such small systems 
<_sniff> my friend has a gay computer with 64mb, if i change it from windows to linux, what can be done?
<_sniff> ah alright
<ogra> use a "server" install (its in fact a minimal install with a weird name) and install xubuntu-desktop
<ogra> xubuntu is for low profile systems
<_sniff> i see
<ogra> but i dont know how low that goes
<_sniff> thanks for that
<_sniff> sounds about what i was looking for
<_sniff> guess we'll find out
<ogra> yes
<ogra> would be nice if you could report back, so we'd have some hints on the wiki for other people in the same situation 
<signifer123> Thinkpad 600E
<signifer123> PII 400MHz
<signifer123> 128 MB RAM
<signifer123> 6 GB hard drive --works decently
<_sniff> i hope to god ubuntu doesn't go the same way as suse. Suse used to be my fave but it's got so much damn eyecandy it goes like a turtle
<SiennaLizard> ogra, those stats were interesting, but not as off-putting as I thought they would be. The Mall school in Richmond used a dual-core system with 2 gigs of RAM to deal with 20 machines, or so, so that adds up nicely.
<signifer123> s odoes 64 meg p450
<signifer123> so does*
<ogra> SiennaLizard, the shared mem might scale with the amount of users....
<SiennaLizard> _sniff the nice thing about Ubuntu is you can choose your eyecandy and your window manager just through adding the packages with synaptic and restarting GDM.
<_sniff> are the error messagaes that i see when starting a thin client anything to worry about?  Things like could not mount tmp directory etc.?
<SiennaLizard> _sniff, when you log in, pick the WM you want out of the sessions list.
<ogra> _sniff, nope 
<_sniff> yeah but i like kde etc
<_sniff> so why does it write in big RED letters fail, when actually it doesn't matter
<ogra> _sniff, they are caused by starting (in ltsp unused) services on a read only filesystem ...
<_sniff> allright that's fantastic new
<_sniff> news
<ogra> the errors (and the services) are gone in the next release :)
<SiennaLizard> ogra, one of the messages refers to a fsck problem. Are there modifications that I could make to stop these checks trying to run?
<_sniff> ok cool stuff
<SiennaLizard> ogra. ahh. you've answered my question!
<ogra> and in fact ltsp has a bootsplash now that would hide tham anyway :)
<_sniff> wow a boot splash would be appreciated
<SiennaLizard> that's very good news.
<ogra> its in the dapper release (6.04)
<_sniff> how do you guys reply to a certain user in this irc?
<_sniff> i haven't used irc before a few days ago
<_sniff> i'm using Konversation
<ogra> _sniff, you mean the highlighting ? 
<_sniff> yes
<ogra> just say the name of the user in front of your sentencs
<_sniff> it automaticall puts USERNAME, xxxxxxxx
<ogra> the client highlights the line then 
<_sniff> you must type it?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> _sniff, 
<_sniff> annoying
<ogra> see
<_sniff> but that's so hard
<ogra> try with the first three letters and hit the tab key
<ogra> +or two ...
<_sniff> ogra: 
<ogra> depends hown many people with a similar name are in the room 
<_sniff> + or two?
<ogra> _sniff, :)
<_sniff> og  
<_sniff> ogra: 
<_sniff> ah i see
<ogra> in this room o+tab would suffice to catch me
<_sniff> ogra: 
<_sniff> yeah that's right
<ogra> s requires at least 3 letters here 
<_sniff> ok that's somewhat easier
<_sniff> how do i set my ubuntu up to be a dhcp server>
<_sniff> so that i can use ltsp?
<SiennaLizard> just press tab more times to move through them.
<SiennaLizard> _sniff, you can either use the standalone package.
<ogra> _sniff, ThinClientHowto explains it 
<SiennaLizard> _sniff, or use a dhcp server you've already got running on that box
<_sniff> erm
<_sniff> just installing ltsp starts a dhcp server rigth?
<SiennaLizard> I'm using the standalone one quite succesfully.
<ogra> _sniff, yes, but you need to adjust the config as described in the howto or in https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup
<_sniff> this is really cool, i wanted to set this up at home, where we have 3 computers, 1 of which can be a ltsp server. Using ubuntu means I don't give my parents a bunch of kids games to look at
<SiennaLizard> you can start it with /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server
<SiennaLizard> sorry, /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server
<SiennaLizard>  restart
<_sniff> what about setting up a dedicated dhcp server on the machine?
<SiennaLizard> that's part of the ltsp standalone package.
<SiennaLizard> _sniff, I think you need to get a non-production box and the howto, and have a go. That's all I did, and I'm no pro :-)
<_sniff> wouldn't it be ok to include a package selection in ubuntu installation so ltsp can be installed first. And also can replace evolution with tbord etc
<_sniff> alright i'm all for having a crack
<ogra> have a look at kickstart, that enables such setups ...
<_sniff> can't get another box, but i'm running 3 vms on my laptop as we speak, right now i'm inside a kubuntu vm
<_sniff> kickstart is where?
<_sniff> ah
<_sniff> in wiki
<ogra> :)
<_sniff> i would wipe windows off my laptop completely and just run ubuntu, but i can't get the sound to work
<_sniff> or 3d acceleration
<_sniff> or 5 button mouse
<_sniff> or hotplugging usb
<_sniff> or play mp3s
<ogra> sounds like you have a faily old laptop with broken acpi ...
<_sniff> no
<ogra> try booting with noacpi ...
<_sniff> sony vaio fs-115e, bought it several months ago
<ogra> apart from mp3 the other stuff works for 98% of our users
<ogra> mp3 needs some manual intervention... since we cant legally ship the codec
<_sniff> also, when i want to restart or shutdown the system sends the Sigkill or whatever, and that's it a blank screen... and never restarts
<ogra> thats acip 
<ogra> *acpi
<_sniff> so i disable it?
<_sniff> install with no acpi is this what i must do?
<ogra> yes, try that ... just add noacpi to the end of our kernel line on boot (hit esc if grub shows up, then you can edit it on the fly)
<ogra> *our/your 
<_sniff> when grub shows i hit esc
<ogra> yep
<_sniff> it it possible for me to adjust screen brightness?
<ogra> then you have the option to edit the kernel line ...
<_sniff> ok i edit the kernel line with "no acpi" ?
<ogra> i think so ... but i have no recent sony hardware here 
<_sniff> in my ubuntu system it detects my screen and gives me a slider to adjust the brightness but it makes no difference
<_sniff> the fn keys don't work either
<ogra> did you report a bug, so the developer can fix it ? 
<_sniff> no
<_sniff> which one should i report?
<ogra> do that then ;) 
<_sniff> so many things that don't work
<_sniff> the latest suse (10) most things work, apart from screen brightness. Also i have sound but the system mixer and volume control on the app have no effect
<ogra> most of them are related to the fact that sony ships broken acpi BIOSes that report wrong values ...
<ogra> as i said, you can work around that by disabling acpi ...
<_sniff> what benefits do i lose by disabling acpi?
<ogra> no idea, i usually dont buy broken hardware ... 
<ogra> but i guess power management will suffer a bit
<_sniff> i guess non of it is working at the moment anyway
<_sniff> the only thing that seems to be ok, is hibernating
<ogra> somebody should kick sony for not being standard compliant ...
<_sniff> but like i said ubuntu cannot even restart or shutdown my system (mandriva, suse and auditor all can do this!)
<_sniff> so which manufacturers of laptops are standard compliant or have a high chance of working with linux?
<ogra> that will work with the noacpi option ...
<ogra> i guess sound will as well
<ogra> ibm is fine, dell is about 70% good, 30% crap ... toshiba is fine apart from having a strange hotkey handling etc ...
<ogra> there are lists on the wiki
<_sniff> mmm i dislike ibm
<_sniff> dell are one of the most gay companies
<_sniff> and i've got nothing against toshiba
<ogra> some acers might be fine as well ... i have one that works fine with recent kernels, but is a bit buggy with older ones ...
<_sniff> mmmm i've seen quite a few decent acer laptops i reckon they're good
<_sniff> ok so do i need to do "no acpi" every system restart?
<ogra> nope, if it works with the test (its noacpi without space btw) you can add it to your grub setup... see the wiki 
<_sniff> the wiki
<ogra> yes :)
<_sniff> i search for acpi and get 0 results
<ogra> look at the laptop stuff, sorry i have a meeting now...
<_sniff> alright
<_sniff> but thank you very much for so much help
<_sniff> really appreciate it
<ogra> its all in the wiki ... anywhere :)
<_sniff> hey
<_sniff> can internet users connect to a ltsp server?
<_sniff> i mean is it a security vulnerability at all running ltsp?
<signifer123> depends on your setup
<signifer123> network setup
<signifer123> or config setup
<signifer123> commonly configuration o
<signifer123> no
<signifer123> unless the hacker spends his life porting all of the apps he needs to forge ip's
<jsgotangco> ogra, hey what do we call our installation for workstation/server? types? modes? eh?
<ogra> ?
<ogra> can you elaborate ?
<jsgotangco> ogra, what do we call them, "workstation mode" "workstation install" "workstation type"
<jsgotangco> "server mode" "server install" "server type (of install)"
* jsgotangco is rather finicky for an article lately
<jsgotangco> or maybe i'm just being too detailed
<ogra> i'd say server install 
<Yagisan> I'd go for install too myself
<ogra> but i'm still discussing that to be renamed to minimal install
<jsgotangco> yes instead of server
<ogra> its a sabdfl decision thats not easy to change
<jsgotangco> argghh
<ogra> see the thread in ubuntu-devel from ~2 months ago
<flint> ogra, you awake?
<ogra> flint, yes but pretty busy, i just broke my main machine
<flint> highvoltage, jonathan did is spell it right this morning...
<highvoltage> flint: :)
<flint> ogra, excellent.  jut a little good news, the only part of flight 3.1 that did not work was the chroot (and the serial mouse)
<ogra> yup
<highvoltage> hmmm. how do i make someone permanent opps...
<ogra> i know
* mode/#edubuntu [+o ogra]  by highvoltage
* mode/#edubuntu [+o JaneW]  by highvoltage
<ogra> highvoltage, i doubt thats permanent
<flint> i excpect the serial mouse not to work.  I will tell you why that is important.... if you are interested.
<ogra> i know why thats important
<zakame> hi all
<flint> ogra, ollie, when you say broken, did you use a hammer, axe or shotgun? :^)
<ogra> thats why i did put a whole day into getting inputattach in shape at the london distro sprint
<ogra> flint, something wiped my HD ...
<flint> ogra, i realise that I am distressingly cheerful about your progress but...
<flint> ogra, that is harsh.  ok I am going to stop this and do mondo/mindy for the rest of the day.  You are an inspiration ollie!!!
<ogra> flint, i'll ping the mailing list if there is a usable CD to test ... currnetly the whole gnome gets updated, there is no point in CD testing today
<flint> just glad to finally be able to report in... thanks.  will hassle some other innocent developer in the mean time...
<flint> ogra, a cigi break is in order eh?
* jsgotangco guess this is not a good time to ask about hwdb
<jsgotangco> :D
<ogra> jsgotangco, ask
<ogra> flint, i had 5 cigarettes in 2 minutes ... :)
<ogra> all saved, everything in order again 
<jsgotangco> ogra, is it still updated?
<ogra> DONT TEST TODAYS i386 CD !!!
<jsgotangco> yay
<ogra> jsgotangco, yup
<jsgotangco> ogra, i mean the application not the db :D
<ogra> 199865 datasets ...
<jsgotangco> does it still reside in your machine somewhere?
<ogra> it will see some bugfixes for dapper
<ogra> yup, but i have a new machine with tape backup and mirrored scsi drives as well as a backup here ...
<jsgotangco> ogra, the reason i ask is that we don't have a definitive HCL and that data could be useful...
<ogra> so the data is safe ... i'll see when i get time for the sql stuff
<ogra> you can access the datasets directly ...
<ogra> wget http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/fe203971e939f3d14440e3257d5ead06.xml.bz2 will get you the dataset locally 
<jsgotangco> that's a lot :D
<ogra> especially if you think about the fact that its all in a single folder :)
<jsgotangco> arghhh
<ogra> its a real ext3 stresstest ...
<jsgotangco> how do you decrpyt each dataset?
<ogra> (thats why i had to care for backing up everything ;) )
<ogra> its not encrypted ... just open it in an editor
<jsgotangco> hrmm
<jsgotangco> this could pose a challenge
<ogra> but dont do a wget http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/*.xml.bz2 please, it will make me poor and need 5.5G on your disk
<jsgotangco> doh..and i was supposed to paste it just now
* jsgotangco grabs it from ogra 's isdn
<ogra> i have a dvd backup here that goes up to 170000 i could send you ...
<ogra> the missing 20000 sets will mainly be dapper ...
<jsgotangco> well even just 10 of the dataset will do i'm just thinking of wa y to make it presentable
<ogra> yeah, so pull some sets ...
<ogra> i was thinking about a parser that presents the logs additionally to cpu and mem at least ...
<Yagisan> ogra: excuse the dumb question - but what is this hwdb you are talking about ?
<ogra> hwdb.ubuntu.com+
<ogra> err omit the +
<jsgotangco> Submissions Total: 199865 Today: 25459
<jsgotangco> wow is that Today real?
<ogra> yeahm the cronjob isnt running
<ogra> nope
<ogra> daily is about 500 to 800 ... depending on the day
<ogra> weekends are less
<jsgotangco> and it spikes upon release
<ogra> up to 1500 
<jsgotangco> 1500 machines sold to damnation not bad
<zakame> damnation?
<Yagisan> um - what's the use of this hwdb ?
<ogra> Yagisan, you have a hwdb client app in the systemtools menu ...
<jsgotangco> Yagisan, its ogra's little spyware
<jsgotangco> joke
<ogra> it collects all data from the device manager, dmesg and xorg logs and does a little questionnaire
<jsgotangco> (its actually optional)
<ogra> oh, and xorg.config ...
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Yagisan> well - if I had a default install I would, but I don't. Does it work on headless boxes ?
<ogra> nope
<jsgotangco> nope
<jsgotangco> (that's actually a good idea though)
<ogra> if you have a non headless box, install hwdb-client
<ogra> jsgotangco, its planned for the rewrite i want to do since breezy 
<Yagisan> oh - I'll run it on my ltsp server then
<Yagisan> all the others will missout - and they have some interesting things in them
<jsgotangco> 199865 datasets is the ultimate HCL list though if properply formatted
<Yagisan> (can you say geforce4 in a p2 233 - overkill there)
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> poor GPU
<ogra> you could try to use the gpu as fpu :)
<ogra> just patch the kernel a bit 
<Yagisan> it was all I had left in my spare parts box
<jsgotangco> boy would i love to dig in to your spare parts box
* Yagisan likes ogra's idea. have a patch for me ;)
<ogra> lol
<ogra> no kernel hacker, sorry :)
<jsgotangco> you don't get a geforce4 in a box everyday
<jsgotangco> ogra, seriously though, i'd like to branch the hwdb-client...and just study for now...
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: It has parts from my first 286 to whatever survived the last power surge/storm/flood/act of god/child so it is an eclectic collection of parts
<ogra> the client is in my bzr archive on people.u.c
<ogra> the server is a 100 line python script ...
<ogra> (or less, never counted lines there)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> dont expect anything, the code is a weird mess ...
<bobulator> hey... anyone got any idea why this thin client wont accept a password?
<jsgotangco> hrmmm wlan detection
<ogra> bobulator, check /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts
<bobulator> ta...
<jsgotangco> oh cool it even has sean's manual
<ogra> bobulator, there should be a line for your current host ...
<ogra> if you changed the ip of the interface the thin clients are on post install, you need to run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys again ...
<bobulator> i dont think i changed the ip address, but the only ip addresses in there are the server
<bobulator> it gets loads of write errors when it boots too?
<ogra> yes, thats fixed in dapper ...
<ogra> its cause because in breezy you still use a complete default system and the apps are not designed to run on a readonly system ...
<bobulator> is dapper still beta?
<ogra> none of the apps that start with an error is used, its just cosmetic and slows down the boot
<ogra> yup
<bobulator> and how can i fix it? 8)
<ogra> wait for dapper ? 
<bobulator> :p
<ogra> you can install usplash in the client chroot ...
<ogra> that will hide about 50% of the errors
<bobulator> why is it doing it anyway?
<ogra> read above
<bobulator> ohhhh
<bobulator> i gets ya, ok
<ogra> :)
<bobulator> so how do i do that usplash thing?
<ogra> i've thrown out all unneeded services in dapper and fixed the remaining ones  ...
<ogra> no errors in dapper ...
<bobulator> cool :D
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install usplash
<ogra> should do it ...
<ogra> worst case you need to copy the sources.list from the server and run apt-get update with the same chroot command ... in case it doesnt work ...
<bobulator> hmm it wont get the package
<ogra> whats the error ? 
<bobulator> 'unable to fetch some archives;
<bobulator> looks like its trying to get it off a cd?
<bobulator> oooh, maybe ive not edited the sources list
<ogra> yes, as i told you ... copy the sources.list and follow the advise ...
<bobulator> ok... im on the server now. not sure what you mean? sorry...
<bobulator> just edit in the backports?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install usplash
<mhz> JaneW: hi, ping
<bobulator> hmm its still trying to get from the cd?
* spacey working on getting thinclients to autologin
<ogra> mhz, she's ill
<mhz> ogra: oooh, thx
<ogra> spacey, eek, that will need evil hacks to ldm
<spacey> hehe, we gonna fix it up with old style ltsp. shouldn't be too hard
<spacey> with that
<flint> ogra, what's up with JaneW?
<spacey> gdm has the functionality
<ogra> ah, k... gdm should work
<ogra> flint, a cold with fever etc
<spacey> ogra: but it would be a useful feature in the future for ldm :P
<flint> ogra, bummer...
<spacey> although you would need a different approach
<spacey> i guess
<ogra> spacey, pretty hard to do secure 
<spacey> yeh
<spacey> as far as autologin is secure :)
<ogra> heh
<spacey> besides that i mean
<spacey> :p
<ogra> the thing is that you need the password file in the chroot for that ...
<ogra> thats pretty bad
<spacey> why?
<spacey> that wouldn't solve anything
<ogra> the login manager needs to know the sccounts ...
<ogra> *accounts
<spacey> you can fetch it from hostname i think
<spacey> have to configure the dhcp server to send hostnames to the clients
<spacey> and configure the thinclients to fetch that one
<spacey> but since its over ssh, you would need a not so private ssh key to login automaticly
<ogra> you still need an account name ...
<bobulator> arghhh, compouters are shit
<spacey> ogra: same as hostname
<ogra> spacey, hmm, that would need a host account for every host ... hard to automate
<spacey> jup
<spacey> but possible
<flint> could you give out the hostname when you give out the lease?
<ogra> flint, i still dont have the account on the server ...
<flint> ogra, i mean the host account could create as part of the lease script... 
<ogra> eeek evil ...
<flint> ogra, I stay up at night practicing stupid questions... :^)
<spacey> flint: dhcp server can send the hostname
<ogra> flint, arent you security consultant ? 
* ogra throws doubtful looks in flints direction
<flint> ogra, note the distinction EX-security consultant.  
<ogra> lol
<flint> ogra, I want to git-er-done... anyway you said it is over a secure pipe
<spacey> not really
<flint> ogra, and while it may appear that I am on the pipe with this suggestion...
<spacey> if the private key is in the chroot
<spacey> or maybe that doesn't matter
<spacey> anyway
<flint> ogra, keep in mind that these would be fresh, every time they are made from skel.
* ogra thinks flint should rather drop the pipe :)
<flint> ogra, aw but is sooo good...
<ogra> heh
<flint> ogra, another bad idea is could I help with the serial mouse problem?
<flint> ogra, got another bad idea...
<ogra> flint, its solved since last week 
<flint> ogra, ...rats...
<ogra> we just need inputattach on the CD ...
<flint> oh well back to creating havoc in the universe.  Glad you got your axe back ollie.
<ogra> which was shuffled serveral times since we couldnt agree which metapackage it should be in
<ogra> it found its final place now, but now the CD is broken#
<flint> ogra, the fun never stops...
<flint> ogra, back to mondo/mindi
<bob> so ogra, sorry to be so thick, let me get this straight... 1)the reason it wont let us log in is because theres something wrong with the network setup adn its not allowing an ssh session? and 2)the things that fail at startup dont really matter
<ogra> 2 is right 
<ogra> for 1, you can create a root password in the chroot and check /ver/log/ldm.log on the client ...
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
<bob> what is the chroot, sorry?
<ogra> then boot the client and switch to tty1 (ctrl-alt-f1)
<ogra> there log in as root
<ogra> and check the logfile
<bob> ok, ta...
<ogra> /opt/ltsp/i386 is the chroot the client mounts via nfs
<bob> is opt where the clients recieve their image from?
<bob> ah, cool :)
* Yagisan drags self off to bed. Night all. btw ogra, do we really need ops in here ?
<ogra> Yagisan, we need the opportunity for ops to kick trolls... highvoltage made me an op, no idea why ...
* mode/#edubuntu [-o ogra]  by ogra
<ogra> :)
<ogra> bob, yes, /opt is it ... and with the chroot command you can pretend /opt/ltsp/i386 to be / and perform actions in there
<Yagisan> :) I find it more fun when the trolls have no idea they are about to be kicked
<Yagisan> anyway I should be in bed
<ogra> night 
<bob> ahh i gets ya... althjough i think itll take a while to settle in
<bob> ldm.leg is empty
<bob> .log
<bob> and you meant /var/log/ldm, yeah?
<ogra> /var/log/ldm.log
<ogra> yup
<bob> empty
<ogra> you need to produce the error indeed to have something in ther
<bob> this is bad?
<ogra> so try a login first, then look inside the file :)
<bob> i gets ya :)
<bob> 'didnt get right output from the greeter'
<bob> want the rest?
<ogra> something ssh related ? 
<bob> cant see it... here we go
<bob> "traceback (msot recent call last)
<ogra> like "authentication failed" or "remote host closed connection" etc ...
<ogra> ugh, traceback ? 
<ogra> thats evil
<bob> file "/usr/sbin/ldm, line 93, in ? ldm.run()
<ogra> thats a default edubuntu install ? 
<bob> yarrr
<ogra> nothing tweaked at all ? 
<bob> nope... what could we have tweaked by accident?
<ogra> installed from the edubuntu breezy iso ? 
<bob> yup
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> you cant tweak anything in the chroot without the chroot command i gave you above
<bob> hmm, maybe me faffing around with the commands you gave me earlier changed something...
<bob> could have messed something up
<bob> hmm the other problem si theres 2 dhcp servers floating around coz the firmware o the router is a tad buggy and you cant turn it off, although im guessing it doesnt matter too much...
<ogra> but you obviously get the clients booting, so dhcp wont be an issue
<bob> yeah...
<ogra> wait a second, i have to rush into a meeting
<bob> thats cool :)
<jsgotangco> good night
<bob> ahha, chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update is trying to connect to 1.0.0.0 fo some reason
<paolob> Hi guys! I changed the network IPs (in /etc/network/interfaces and in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf and in /etc/hosts), and now the clients boot but doesn't permit login in gnome. Any hint?
<paolob> Before, the server was 10.152.0.1, and now it's 10.152.0.10
<paolob_> Hi guys! Anyone knows if it is possible that the edubuntu server has a IP with the last number <> 1? i.e., could it be 10.152.58.10, or must it be mandatorily 10.152.58.1?
<ogra> paolob, that doesnt matter ...
<ogra> note taht you need to run: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys on the server if you changed the ip 
<signifer123> good afternoon
<Burgwork> sa;lit
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> hi signifer123 
<Burgwork> salut even
<Lord_Athur> hi Burgwork 
<mhz_dishes> ogra: can i have your geek opinion on this, please? http://mhz.homelinux.org/tcwiki/MauricioHernandez/ScrapBook/XfceDesktop
<mhz_dishes> ogra: I mean the CSS, unless you like XFCE4 in balck
#edubuntu 2006-02-19
<BishopT> mhz: I like that design. Not everyone has a scrolly mouse, so the menu is closer to the scrollbar, I wish more sites would put menuss on the right side.
* BishopT is really TOZ on BishopT's PC.
<jsgotangco> ogra, it doesn't seem to build?
<ogra> jsgotangco, hmm, seems serpentine is broken
<jsgotangco> well even the meta package isn't installable
<ogra> yes, it depends on serpentine
<lucasvo> is it possible to start up gnome and kde at the same time?
<lucasvo> I have some strange mix
<lucasvo> I have gnome-toolbars but the kde bars as well
<lucasvo> :)
<ogra> known bug ...
<lucasvo> how can I fix it?
<ogra> you cant, wait for the devs to do it :)
<lucasvo> ok
<jsgotangco> that should have been fixed a while back
<jsgotangco> now its udev mixups
<ogra> jsgotangco, it was reported first on the weekend ... what do you expect ? 
<Yagisan> G'day all
<jsgotangco> ogra, :D
<jsgotangco> kvetch! kvetch! kvetch!
<Yagisan> man - I had a shit day with customers. damm cunt didn't want to pay after ordering parts (that I don't normally stock), and after they were installed.
<Yagisan> they thought theyed just take the system home with them
<jsgotangco> happy valentine's day ogra 
<jsgotangco> hehe
* jsgotangco gives ogra a cookie heart
<Yagisan> s/theyed/they would/
* lucasvo wants XGL
<lucasvo> :P
<ogra> lucasvo, just install it ... its in universe 
<ogra> jsgotangco, thanks :) 
<ogra> happy valentine
<lucasvo> ogra: and it works?
<Yagisan> and then they were unhappy when I ripped they box open and pulled the parts out.
<ogra> lucasvo, no idea 
<ogra> but its in since yesterday
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> feed the crack
<lucasvo> oh
<lucasvo> ok
<Yagisan> lucasvo: got a geforce 7800 supper delux sli bling bling card ? then maybe
<lucasvo> no
<lucasvo> Maxtor 5 year old 
<lucasvo> how can I find out if dualhead is supported?
<Yagisan> lucasvo: then why ? I doubt xgl will work well on an older card. 
<Yagisan> lucasvo: actually I wonder why it *needs* pixel shaders to do some of it's work.
<Yagisan> ogra: the hwdb - is it only supposed to show my cpu, ram and video details ?
<ogra> Yagisan, currently yes ...
<Yagisan> ogra: ok. I was wondering why there was nothing about my sound, network or tv tuner etc there
<ogra> its all there, just not displayed 
<ogra> (and it most likely wont until we have the zope sql interface to handle it ...
<jsgotangco> brb
<Yagisan> ogra: is it normal to only test the first sound card found ?
<ogra> yes, thats a feature i havent implemented yet ...
<Yagisan> ogra: ok. well, my puny little ltsp server is at http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/?xml=a8c596e2ff15fd3fd85c40f8afb59fa8
<Yagisan> which is yours ?
* lucasvo just bought a blackberry
<lucasvo> ogra: I'll lend you hardware if you convince mark to develop xubuntu
<lucasvo> a hx4700 :P
<ogra> lucasvo, we have a huge datacenter, no need for more hardware :)
<ogra> xubuntu will be in main in dapper
<lucasvo> cool
<ogra> so it will be on the edubunntu DVD ;)
<lucasvo> edubuntu dvd=main?
<lucasvo> ogra: is it possible to make an installation option to install a slim wm?
<ogra> yup, the DVDs hold all of main, a live and a install image
<Yagisan> will that be single, or dual layer dvd ?
<ogra> Yagisan, an iso image
<lucasvo> ogra: > 4.7GB?
<lucasvo> I would like to have a gnome GUI install tool
<Yagisan> lucasvo: actually it's 4.4GB for single layer
<ogra> look at releases.ubuntu.com ...
<lucasvo> so I can just run an install tool out of the live cd to install it on the machine
<Yagisan> what we need is a nice portable ogra tool, for when things go wrong. It needs to come with edubuntu by default, as we may need it before it is possible to "sudo aptitude install ogra" ;)
<ogra> lol
<ogra> so you support cloning ? 
<ogra> lucasvo, yes, have a look at espresso once its on the liveCD
<lucasvo> ogra: no, I prefer robots, they don't get tired :P
<lucasvo> ogra: and what about the xfce install option for thin clients?
<Yagisan> ogra: what do you call identical twins ? quite clearly they are clones, but only physically, because personality wise, they are different.
<ogra> lucasvo, you can install it afterwards ...
<Yagisan> lucasvo: what's the point of xfce on a thin client ?
<lucasvo> Yagisan: faster
<Yagisan> all the work is done on the server
<lucasvo> I mean on the server
<lucasvo> I said FOR and not ON
<lucasvo> I mean that one can choose between xfce or gnome as standard wm on server 
<lucasvo> but if I install xubuntu on breezy, the thin clients don't start up with xfce
<ogra> if you give me any opportunity to stuff it on the CD, we can think about it for dapper+1 or +2
<Yagisan> I get you now.
<lucasvo> where is the dapper+1 roadmap?
<ogra> dapper isnt out yet ...
<lucasvo> ogra: mark will continue the edubuntu project?
<ogra> why shouldnt he ?
<lucasvo> ogra: there aren't any drafts
<ogra> nope
<lucasvo> ogra: because it isn't sucessful enough?
<ogra> we make our specs at the conference after the release ...
<ogra> what ? 
<Yagisan> lucasvo: ???
<ogra> its pretty successful
<lucasvo> yeah I know
<lucasvo> but I don't know what he expects
<ogra> look at distrowatch ...
<ogra> we're in the top 100 ...
<lucasvo> yeah
<Yagisan> I look forward to full CJK support out of the box for edubuntu
<lucasvo> I didn't mean it serious
<lucasvo> CJK?
<ogra> Yagisan, we have scim in dapper ... it will be in edubuntu too
<Yagisan> Chinese, Japanese, Korean
<lucasvo> ah
<Yagisan> ogra: I know. I'm looking for "out-of-the-box" not add on after install
<Yagisan> that actually is my biggest gripe with hoary and breezy. CJK didn't work out-of-the-box, and it regressed in breezy :(
<ogra> Yagisan, i'm talking about out of the box as well
<Yagisan> as in on the cd ?
<ogra> scim will be installed with the language pack ...
<Yagisan> :)
<Yagisan> wait
<Yagisan> I have multiple language packs
<Yagisan> any issues there ?
<ogra> nope
<Yagisan> so eg Adding Korean won't break my Japanese setup
<Yagisan> ?
<ogra> i doubt that ...
* Yagisan cries
<ogra> if you want to make it really sure, help freeflying and the scim team ;)
<Yagisan> ogra: I better drag out a copy of vmware then. I really don't want to break my production box
<Yagisan> oddly qemu doesn't like me at the moment
<lucasvo> yeah, ubuntu should offer vmware images
<ogra> it does 
<lucasvo> really?
<lucasvo> cool
<Yagisan> lucasvo: I'd do it in qemu if I could get qemu and my network to talk
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/vmware/
<Yagisan> wow. that was unexpected
<Yagisan> it really exists.
<ogra> i dont lie, sure it does ;)
<Yagisan> hmm, we don't have an #ubuntu-c-newbies do we
<ogra> thats what #ubuntu is for
<Yagisan> what it is for, and what it actually is don't seem to match.
* Yagisan googles
* Yagisan has decided to learn C, not those OO languages his uni keeps pushing at him
<ogra> learn python :)
<signifer123> is python puer OO?
<signifer123> pure*
<signifer123> nvm
<Yagisan> whilst, I'm sure python is nice, no-one writes exploit code in it. I need to learn more C, as it can be a pain in the arse to do all my code in x86 assembler
<Yagisan> although, it would be good to know, after mastering C
<signifer123> lol x86 assembler is a bit silly to learn unless your handling bios level stuff :-P
<signifer123> or you are trying ot write the tiniest exe you can...
<signifer123> \bin
<Yagisan> signifer123: well, considering my job, it's a must have requirement. I'm actually rather good at it. :)
<signifer123> wait whats your job?
<Yagisan> signifer123: e-security consultant. I'm the good guy looking for all the holes in your system.
* lucasvo gave up with asm, it is too "easy"
<signifer123> ok....maybe you need it them for like 2 things :-p
<signifer123> ^^i'd be with lucasvo cept that style of coding is quite addicting
<Yagisan> I have a general rule with my x86 asm. if it is more the 3 pages long, it's too long and should be done higher level
<signifer123> :-p
* Yagisan once wrote a app that was 300 A4 pages of assembler
<Yagisan> that was not fun to maintain
<signifer123> Yagisan: i bet it wasn't...
<signifer123> what assembler?
<signifer123> i prefer Nasm..you?
<Yagisan> when I first started it was tasm, but yes, I switched to nasm/yasm
<Yagisan> signifer123: I still remember the fun I had when I first discovered flat real mode :)
* signifer123 cannot get his computer to switch to protected mode
<signifer123> :_p
<Yagisan> we have a new name for flat real mode now. Intel calls it "System management Mode"
<signifer123> ha....
<signifer123> never tried directx and asm
<signifer123> ...
* topic unset by salt_lick on #edubuntu
<salt_lick> hello
<salt_lick> any thin client experts here?
<salt_lick> I want to use edubuntu as a server for 3 thin client kiosks
<salt_lick> I want these to start, connect to the server, and launch a browser to a specific web page
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:salt_lick] : Thin clients
<sniff> anyone know how to do a filesystem check of a fat32 drive and fix any errors?
<Kamping_Kaiser> fsck.msdos or fsck.vfat? 
<Kamping_Kaiser> usual disclaimer about damaged filesystem
<salt_lick> hello
<salt_lick> did anyone answer my question about thin clients?
<salt_lick> my client crashed
<flint_> elkner you here?
<sithi> is mr. ogra there
<ogra> sithi, yes, i am ... sorry, very busy
<sithi> no problem sir, 
<sithi> i have few clarifications with fire fox only setup
<sithi> i thought i can send a detailed email about that
<sithi> please give me ur email. id
<sithi> hope u there
<ogra> ogra@ubuntu.com 
<ogra> :)
<sithi> :) thanks, please go thru my mail
<sithi> leaving for now.
<sithi> bye.
<mhz> juliux: ping
<juliux> mhz, pong
<mhz> Does any one here has RevolutionOS.mpg to lend a download?
<mhz> juliux: do you have that?
<juliux> i have only the linuxcode
<mhz> juliux: downloadable?
<juliux> mhz, yes
<juliux> mhz, search it by google it is free for download
<mhz> what kbps rate/speed ?
<juliux> puh
<juliux> i dont know
<mhz> okis, thx
<ogra> huzzah, the bug that prevents you from multiple logins is fixed :) you can now use the same user on all thin clients and still have icons, wallpaper and theme right :)
<bob> hey people
<bob> any idea why chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update is looking at 1.0.0.0?
<lucasvo> bob: hm, that ist strange
<lucasvo> bob: dns is working?
<lucasvo> bob: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dig google.ch?
<bob> chroot cant run command 'dig'?
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> hm, and ping google.ch
<lucasvo> bob: are you on dapper?
<bob> no
<bob> is it worth upgrading?
<lucasvo> bob: depends on what you use it for
<bob> haha ok
<bob> well
<bob> loads doesnt work atm
<lucasvo> for e.g. I only use it at home. 
<bob> chroot ping works
<bob> im trying to do thin client stuff and theres laods of problems
<lucasvo> bob: and what does the source.list in the chroot look like?
<bob> hmm, lokos pretty normal. everying uncommented apart from the cd
<lucasvo> bob: :P
<lucasvo> bob: in the chroot?
<bob> yeah
<lucasvo> bob: comment the cd and uncomment the main
<bob> oh sorry
<bob> the cd is commented
<bob> everything else isnt
<lucasvo> bob: anyway, why do you want to update?
<bob> whoops
<bob> umm
<bob> well
<bob> its just not working very well
<lucasvo> bob: what's not working?
<bob> laod of the thins kinda get halfway through boot and stop
<bob> when they do boot, some of them dont accept normal logins
<lucasvo> bob: where does it stop?
<bob> varies i think, this time on the hotplug stuff
<lucasvo> bob: so if some of them boot, then it is not a problem of the chroot
<bob> ok
<bob> the other reason i wnted to update is to install that usplash thing
<lucasvo> ah, ok
<lucasvo> but then you need to update to dapper
<bob> :)
<bob> how stable is it?
<lucasvo> I don't know, you can try to just change the sources.list in the chroot
<lucasvo> bob: ltsp works
<bob> oh, is the ltsp in breezy not quite there?
<lucasvo> bob: atm there is some bug with KDE/gnome
<lucasvo> but if you have only gnome installed it is ok
<lucasvo> bob: the ltsp in breezy is ok, but it is not as good as in dapper.
<bob> ahhh
<bob> how can we upgrade?
<lucasvo> most edubuntu specific work on dapper has been done on the ltsp stuff
<lucasvo> bob: how do you use your lts lab?
<bob> lts?
<lucasvo> ltsp
<bob> umm
<bob> well
<bob> theres a few computers we have, and we're all trying to get them to boot off the srever
<bob> 8 port hub connecting evreything atm
<lucasvo> 100mbit?
<bob> how do you tell?
<lucasvo> bob: what connection speed is your NIC?
<bob> everything we have is dontated :)
<lucasvo> what speed does your switch allow?
<bob> not sure
<bob> is it an issue?
<bob> it sounds like dapper would be a good idea.
<lucasvo> to update: remove every "breezy" you find in sources.list and write "dapper" instead
<bob> ok :)
<bob> then apt-get upgrade?
<lucasvo> first apt-get update 
<lucasvo> but yes afterwards
<lucasvo> and then there should be a list of packages being  held  back
<lucasvo> you have to install them manually
<lucasvo> sudo apt-get install _heldback_
<bob> good stuff. and i only need to do this in the normal root, not chroot yes?
<lucasvo> yes
<bob> k
<lucasvo> I think the chroot will be rebuilt anyway
<lucasvo> if you update
<bob> coool
<lucasvo> ?
<bob> wow, this is like living on the edge
<lucasvo> :P
<lucasvo> yes
<bob> im thikin running off an ide drive is probably bad too
<bob> although it should be able to handle like 2 thins
<mhz> ogra: what is Dive into Python?
<lucasvo> mhz: were you the one who gave me the book CSspy?
<mhz> lucasvo: it sounds very familiar to my eyes..
<mhz> what is that?
<lucasvo> a book about how to code python
<mhz> yes, I did
<lucasvo> ah ok
<mhz> How to think like a computer scientist from Python?
<bob> is it just me or is the apt repository well slow at the moment?
<lucasvo> ALIEN5.TTF                                          thinkCSpy.pdf
<lucasvo> bob: depends on your connection
<bob> its sposed to be a fast connection
<mhz> what is Dive into Python ?
<bob> 8meg
<bob> lies
<bob> all lies
<lucasvo> bob: it takes a little bit
<bob> 5k/s, its like my mdoem days!
<mhz> JaneW: ping, any better?
<ogra> mhz, its a python book thats installed on every ubuntu system ba default
<ogra> *by
<mhz> oohh
<mhz> where it goes to?
<ogra> i guess to /usr/share/doc ...
<mhz> ogra: okis, thx
<mhz> /usr/share/doc/diveintopython
<Spec> flint!
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: 15 Feb at 12:00 UTC | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes| edubuntu flight3 released !
#edubuntu 2007-02-12
<mathesis> how run supertux in the thin client?
<Burgundavia> mathesis: does supertux require opengl?
<mathesis> only the server run supertux in the thin clientes no
<mzuverink> Would anyone have a kvoctrain en to es and vice versa in kvtml or know of a link?
<mathesis> good evenning
<Burgundavia> greating mathesis
<mathesis> Burgundavia, yu have cyber with ltsp?
<Burgundavia> nope
<mathesis> what is you project ltsp?
<Burgundavia> are you asking me what I do for LTSP?
<mathesis> what is your objective or work with LTSP?
<Burgundavia> right, I don't work on LTSP
<Guest_523> hi this is the 1st time on IRC have tried to install edubuntu version 6.06 LTS from the disk I got from Cannonical when loading it will not load installer any suggestions?
<LaserJock> Guest_523: what does it do?
<Guest_523> It won't let me go forward it says it is missing the loader  I did the check cd option before I treid to install the message says a item is missing
<LaserJock> Guest_523: what option did you select to install?
<Guest_523> stand alone
<Guest_523> I can select language location etc but the next step won't go forward
<n2diy> Guest_523, and the next option is formatting the drive?
<n2diy> oh well.
<mathesis> thereis a problem if update edubuntu when finally the instalation firts?
<LaserJock> hi RichEd
<RichEd> greetz LaserJock
<willvdl> hey folks
<jsgotangco> hi
<willvdl> Anyone got some nice wiki-graphics I can use for our site?
<willvdl> highvoltage,
<willvdl> ping :)
<highvoltage> willvdl: pong
<willvdl> just on phone...
<willvdl> back.
<willvdl> highvoltage, I remember you quite liked that idea of how CC and Ubuntu DIY sites have simple large graphics on the front page
<willvdl> and was thinging of something similar for our wiki front page
<highvoltage> willvdl: that would indeed be nice
<highvoltage> willvdl: I think CC made their site a bit more complicated recently, though
<willvdl> got any nice graphics? or ideas ?
<willvdl> yes, CC did change some stuff
<highvoltage> I think I have an old mockup edubuntu.org web page in a tarball at home
<highvoltage> I could upload it tonight, it's nothing fancy though
<willvdl> cool. ag, some nice references and ideas is always good
<highvoltage> yep
<willvdl> where di those graphics come from that are currently on EdubuntuWiki?
<highvoltage> btw, are you at 12 plein again any time soon? I'll be close by there today tomorrow, and I could drop off a tuxlab cd if you want
<willvdl> I will hopefully be there all day tomorrow. that would be cool
<highvoltage> those are mostly crystal-svg icons where I just added edubuntu logos to
<willvdl> ah. easy enough
<highvoltage> the others are from the gartoon icon theme, mostly unmodified
<willvdl> I'll drop you a line tomorrow. maybe a quick Gallery Cafe too...
<highvoltage> ok
<cbx33> hey all
<highvoltage> hey cbx33
<jsgotangco> hey
<highvoltage> hey jsgotangco
* jsgotangco hugs highvoltage
<pipedrea1> omg
<highvoltage> pipedrea1: it's just an IRC hug okay!!!
* cbx33 hugs everyone
<jsgotangco> bwahhaa
<jsgotangco> don't get any funny thoughts
<jsgotangco> you haven't seen a whole group of ubuntu people hugging each other in a sprint often
<jsgotangco> :D
<juliux> hey highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey jules
<juliux> highvoltage, did you know how creates the drupal theme for edubuntu.org?
<highvoltage> juliux: I'm guilty of that
<juliux> highvoltage, cool
<highvoltage> juliux: I do think it's time for an update though
<juliux> highvoltage, it is possible to the the theme?
<highvoltage> to the the theme?
<juliux> get
<juliux> sorry
<juliux> highvoltage, i want to play around a little bit with the drupal theme
<highvoltage> of course, I'll tar it up for you
<juliux> thank you very much
<juliux> ogra, morning, any ideas about this http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/73721/ ?
<ogra> juliux, nope, works fine here ... do you see it ?
<juliux> ogra, not yet, edgy was every time faster then dapper here
<juliux> ogra, could it be that the client has not enough ram and starts swapping via the network during the boot process?
<ogra> could be
<juliux> i will ask how much ram his client has
<ogra> right
<juliux> i tested the transtec thinclients yesterday, they are realy fast
<juliux> and every thing is working out of the box
<juliux> sound, localdevice support, the screen resolution
<RichEd> hi rodarvus
<RichEd> see /msg
<jsgotangco> hey
<rodarvus> hi RichEd, jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: !
<jsgotangco> how is my favourite brazilian
<markvandenborre> hi RichEd
<RichEd> hi markvandenborre
<RichEd> (in a meeting but will pop back to check comments)
<markvandenborre> ok
<Swaps> hello matkvandenborre and RichEd
<Arjuna> newbie here with torrent question
<Arjuna> mutorrent keeps loosing the swarm
<Arjuna> failure: requested download is not authorized for use with this tracker
<kgoetz> perhaps try #Ubuntu, higher chance of an answer
<Arjuna> alright, but it is edununtu I'm downloading
<kgoetz> ah, so your not running [ed] ubuntu ?
<Arjuna> no i'm in windows, i'm trying to get the latest torrent for edubuntu
<kgoetz> not sure where to ask about that. *doesnt use windows*
<Arjuna> wait... are you a bot?
<kgoetz> not last i checked
<RichEd> Arjuna: have you tried a decent google search ?
<Swaps> RichEd: Would the workshop fit? It's on monday from 10 till 11 o'clock
<RichEd> google [ torrrent download windows +site:ubuntu.com ]  try that
<RichEd> hi swaps
<RichEd> monday is my main meeting unfortunately
<Swaps> :(
<RichEd> but i can join you guys on sunday for a chat and we can go through slides / questions etc.
<Swaps> ok that would be nice!
<RichEd> Swaps: where is the venue ... I will be in Brussels ... near the sheraton i beleive
<Arjuna> a google search because the tracker to get edubuntu isn't working?
<Swaps> uhu, i can come to brussels
<Swaps> no problem
<Swaps> i don't know right were it is bu i can check
<jenda> Why doesn't Edubuntu work as a LiveCD?
<markvandenborre> RichEd, if you want to drop by at the fair somewhere during the week
<Swaps> when do you arrive in brussels?
<Swaps> yes indeed, your always welcome!
<markvandenborre> it it a 30 minute commute from brussels by train
<Arjuna> i'm downloading the dvd live cd. I hope it works
<RichEd> I'm keeping wednesday free ... if I can fly late in the day, I'll be in to visit for sure
<markvandenborre> (+ a 5 minute cab)
<Arjuna> I'm at %50 after 2 days
<Arjuna> so, I'm guessing this isn't a common problem
<Arjuna> Nobody on here connected to the people running the tracker?
<Swaps> RichEd: Can you send us the slides you used in LCA?
<markvandenborre> RichEd,Swaps, /me leaving, busy & guess I'm not really needed here right now...
<RichEd> thanks markvandenborre
<markvandenborre> hope to cya on 05/03
<RichEd> Swaps: I'll mail my slides
<Swaps> szia
<Swaps> RichEd ok thanks
<Swaps> RichEd, what do you prefer to meet on sunday? or do you prefer to make the appointment later?
<RichEd> Swaps: let me confirm my flight arrivals etc.
<Swaps> RichEd, I will keep sunday free anyway... so no problem
<jsgotangco> ohhh mr weideman is travelling again
<RichEd> If I can make it in early, we can meet for lunch and a good belgian beer. I will confirm by the end of next week.
<Swaps> Ok good
<Swaps> if you want we can also meet on monday evening, or someday else
<Swaps> just let it know
<RichEd> monday is a dinner for my brussels meeting
<RichEd> but tuesday may be free
<RichEd> if you want the weekend to yourself, I understand
<Swaps> no problem for me
<Swaps> we have to prepare the booth anyway during the weekend
<Swaps> would the workshop fit on thursday?
<Swaps> maybe i can manage to exchange the 2 days
<Swaps> but i'm not sure
<ogra> RichEd, its to sad we're in italy on te fosdem weekend
<ogra> *the
<RichEd> yep ... I was thinking of trying to get to some sort of meeting on the way through ... just to introduce myself ...
* ogra was invited for a talk by someone in mountain view .... cant remember who ...
<ogra> i'd so love to hold a talk at fosdem ... its my favorite free software event
<ogra> but you cant have everyting ...
<RichEd> I have not checked out all the events ... there was something in Brussels as well ?
<juliux> jenda, if you download the live image you can use edubuntu as a livesystem
<jenda> ok
<jenda> but the default CD don't do.
<jenda> thx
<markvandenborre> RichEd, fosdem == brussels
<markvandenborre> oh dear, and I should have been gone already ...
* markvandenborre waves goodbye
<ogra> RichEd, http://fosdem.org/2007/
<juliux> jenda, what is the default cd for you? we have l a live and an install one with edgy and i think a desktop and a server one with feisty
<jenda> juliux: I meant the shipped Edgies.
<juliux> jenda, ahh
<jenda> juliux: BTW, I'm not whining, I'm just asking ;)
<juliux> jenda, i never tested one:(
<ogra> RichEd, they even have a "free educational software" workshop this year
<ogra> :/
<jenda> juliux: neither did I ;)
<ogra> jenda, the shipit CDs are the classroom server edition ... the server bits wouldnt fit on a liveCD
<jenda> juliux: I was complained to, though.
<jenda> ogra: ok
<jenda> ogra: thanks
<ogra> and we only had approval for one CD at shipit ...
<jenda> mhm
<ogra> since the classroom server is our declared default it was the non live one ...
<jenda> yes, yes :) thankee - I relayed to the source.
<Swaps> RichEd: It's not possible to exchange the days
<Swaps> RichEd: I was thinking that, but you never know
<Swaps> RichEd: If you have some questions, just ask or mail
<RichEd> not from my side ... #1 meeting is monday #2 is tuesday ... big reportback on many projects to the Minerva Agency ... I am one small attendee
<jsgotangco> hmmmm
* RichEd is out for a collection 20 mins
<Swaps> RichEd: Ok, np
<Swaps> RichEd: Have to go and arrange some other stuff for the fair now, thank you
<Swaps> RichEd: I'm a little bit sad that my uni doesn't use minerva :( (they use BB) I was member of the student council staff at the uni, tried to change the idea of my school, but it didn't worked. But the school was not so happy with the report we made, because they had to explain the decision :)
<Swaps> RichEd: ok i'm maybe mixing thing up, i'm not sure what minerva angency is, but i was thinking it were the people that are making minerva, which is the digital learning platform from University from Ghent
<RichEd> Swaps: I'm not sure what you mean here ? The Minerva I know is managing an EU Funded Project ... our Project Lead Organisation applied for funding through them, and we have to report back on progress & budget etc.
<Swaps> RichEd: It's a version of Doceos
<Swaps> dokeos
<Swaps> ok
<Swaps> so i mixed thing up :D
<RichEd> I haven't heard of dokeos ?
<Swaps> claroline?
<RichEd> nope :( give me a link and I will look it up later when I have some free time
<Swaps> http://www.dokeos.com/
<Swaps> it's a belgian started opensource project, a digital learning platform
<Swaps> like blackboard, but better because it's opensource
<RichEd> great ... I'll check it out ... thanks
<Swaps> it's used by a lot of university's
<Swaps> np
<Swaps> i have to go now
<RichEd> okay ... bye for today
<bddebian> Heya
<wizzy> ldap auth experts here ?
<ogra> wizzy, define experts ?  :)
<wizzy> Does login require read access to the password ? I just want it to bind, but my 256 slapd log shows SEARCH only, no BIND
<wizzy> It looks for &posixAccount, then shadowAccount - I have no shadow in my LDAP dir
<wizzy> ogra: Do you use LDAP login ?
<ogra> wizzy, i tried to develop if for feistym but pam isnt smart enough for the automation i planned, so it will wait until feisty+1
<ogra> yes, you need read access afaik
<wizzy> Ugh - why can't it use bind ??
<wizzy> http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=2103&highlight=&sid=bada780ad3065087b695e6eb0c042da4 shows bind
<willvdl> ogra, hey. is there a specific "testing" page you guys want to use? or do you jsut use the Ubuntu Testing Team page?
<ogra> willvdl, heno has set up all the testing stuff for herd tests
<willvdl> excellent.
<ogra> i'll announce it to edubuntu-users before the next herd releases (i.e. if we *need* testing)
<willvdl> putting together the links to edubuntu devel/testing/xxx on one page
<ogra> should be around wed ... herd4 is planned for thursday i think
<ogra> please contact heno for that, we dont use the wiki anymore
<willvdl> cool. I'll jsut wait for the announcement :)
<willvdl> I'll make a landing page so long for folks looking to help in edubuntu devel.
<willvdl> will basically jsut point to LP, ubuntu wiki etc.
<ogra> we have a forum for testing as well afaik
<willvdl> thanks. I'll look for that
<willvdl> I've done the same thing for docs. The doc team pages aren't enough so I have pages that logically (I hope) link to LP, help.u.c, handbook, wikis, how to participate, etc
<willvdl> mock-up: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu?action=show
<ogra> nice !
<ogra> looks cool
<willvdl> my brain hurts trying to figure out all the inter-links :)
#edubuntu 2007-02-13
<Burgwork> ogra: what does the kiosk mode do?
<nox-Hand> Hello hello!
<ogra> Burgwork, kiosk mode installs a simple webkiosk ....
<ogra> hi nox-Hand
<nox-Hand> Hey ogra
<nox-Hand> My mother is principal at a small school. They use Windows and do not want to keep doing so as it is not needed. They but need a PC system that runs the net, office, music, math stuff and a few Danish apps. That would be Edubuntu, correct?
<nox-Hand> The Danish apps I thought might be adaptable via Wine
<nox-Hand> They also need to have a user that has no admin, and it should reset settings at boot ( rm -rf ~/.* )
<nox-Hand> Edubuntu would be quite useable, yes? Oh, and the users should call upon network drives from a Win2k server. There are about.. six drives, so should not be a problem
<RichEd> nox-Hand: yes ... all sounds fine
<nox-Hand> RichEd: Awesome. Just wanted to make sure that someone else actually thought this possible :)
<RichEd> to modify anything significant or install anything requires root password
<jsgotangco> hello
<RichEd> ideally, you would want to go for a LTSP setup ... and every reboot loads standard desktop and runs apps off the server
<nox-Hand> RichEd: I know, thats why its all good :)
<nox-Hand> LTSP?
<nox-Hand> How does that work? Sounds good! :)
<nox-Hand> They currently have a reborn chip that restores everything at boot on their Windows PCs
<RichEd> LTSP is currently thin client only ... w/s run applications directly on the server (like terminal server)
<RichEd> We'll have LTSP Fat Client available in Oct ... where applications run locally, but get config from server on every reboot
<RichEd> let me get you a ref page for LTSP
<nox-Hand> Cheers!
<willvdl> RichEd, have a squizz at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu?action=show
<willvdl> current mockup
<RichEd> nox-Hand: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
<RichEd> note that with Ubuntu, you install LTSP as an additional extra
<RichEd> with Edubuntu install, you can install LTSP from the CD
<nox-Hand> This requires I set up a PC as server though :)
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> but at least you only maintain 1 machine
<jsgotangco> instead of several :)
<RichEd> hi jsgotangco
<RichEd> willvdl: loading it now
<jsgotangco> RichEd: hello there how are things
<jsgotangco> RichEd: so ive read about the edu conf
<nox-Hand> jsgotangco: Oh yeah! The other Pcs get updated apps automatically! :)
<jsgotangco> exactly
<RichEd> busy busy ... planning extended trip to europe and conference
<jsgotangco> that sounds fun
<RichEd> nox-Hand: think of it as terminals. there is only one image
<RichEd> jsgotangco: lots of fun actually ... like blunt trauma to the head
<nox-Hand> RichEd: With 30 PCs doing that at once.. will it be fast?
<jsgotangco> travelling is still fun especially if its about work you enjoy
<Kamping_Kaiser> nox-Hand: depends what 'fast' means
<RichEd> jsgotangco: travel is fun ... making arrangements and VISAs and hotels is not
<ogra> jsgotangco, that really depends
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> i wouldn't really know anyways i dont travel regularly especially long haul flights
<nox-Hand> Kamping_Kaiser: Long waits for opening the stuff that comes over network
<RichEd> nox-Hand: you need to work on around 2GB of RAM in the server per 6-8 w/s
<ogra> i love travelling, but i get less of my regular work done while i'm doing it .. even if i travel for work ...
<RichEd> if you have full blown w/s available, you may rather want to go for Fat Client
<nox-Hand> RichEd: w/s?
<RichEd> (when it becomes available)
<RichEd> work station
<nox-Hand> Eep
<nox-Hand> I hath not that
<nox-Hand> x)
<RichEd> ogra here is the man to ask ... he is Mr Ubuntu LTSP and a whole lot more
<Kamping_Kaiser> nox-Hand: are you doing thin clients or those fat client things?
<nox-Hand> Kamping_Kaiser: fat is with only configs, correct?
<Kamping_Kaiser> nox-Hand: fat is with stuff running on the client. afaik edgy is like dapper (only thin)
<nox-Hand> Bugger. Is it hard to create?
<nox-Hand> Though, to be honest, a standard install with removing all user configs in /home/user/ at boot. Would that not be fine?
<Kamping_Kaiser> for a public system?
<RichEd> nox-Hand: you have a fair amount of protection from users fiddling since they need sudo to do just about anything
<RichEd> running the updates / synaptics and all of that prompts for root password
<nox-Hand> Kamping_Kaiser: Well. They are students from 0-7th grade. I.e, till about 13 years old. They log in using the same user: student. Password is student, and the admin (teacher) has the sudo password.
<Kamping_Kaiser> limited accounts (ie not admin) accounts dont even see synaptic in the menus
<nox-Hand> Limited account indeed.
<nox-Hand> RichEd: Indeed. Why it should not be bad to use
<Kamping_Kaiser> not sure how it will handle multiple simultanious logins
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: that's why I am suggesting a standard stand-alone install ... which is the way nox-Hand is leaning.
<ogra> nox-Hand, a thin client only behaves like an additional set of monitor, keyboard and mouse on the server it boots from the network, needs no disk and doesnt run any apps locally ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd:  think i'd agree with you on taht.
<nox-Hand> RichEd: I agree. That should be good
<nox-Hand> ogra: I think the standalone is good though
<nox-Hand> user cannot do anything "critical"
<nox-Hand> Even a regular limited user on XP can kill most things. In Linux they are more safe :)
<ogra> nox-Hand, a fat client boots the whole OS from the net and runs everything locally, but still needs no disk and you maintain an image on the server
<nox-Hand> ogra: What is there to maintain?
<RichEd> ogra: that's my 1st choice, but we wont have it until 7.10 will we ?
<nox-Hand> Apart from the updates
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm waiting on hte next LTS. fat clients where i'm currently using thins would rock!
<ogra> nox-Hand, softweare installation, user administration etc
<ogra> RichEd, exactly
<ogra> as a teaser the kiosk mode enetered feisty last night :)
<ogra> its a cut down version of a fat client :)
<nox-Hand> ogra: Would an upgrade of one PC just be able to copy over to the others?
<Kamping_Kaiser> no
<Kamping_Kaiser> you could use the same packages though
<ajmitch> ogra: that's good to see, what is the kiosk mode?
<Kamping_Kaiser> (well, not unless you nfs mount half the os)
<nox-Hand> Hmmn
<nox-Hand> I dont know :/
<ajmitch> ltsp package changelog tells me nothing about kiosk mode :)
* ajmitch wonders how fat client mode will go with certain packages that need machine-specific files
<nox-Hand> I am going to try to get ahold of one of their laptops so I can set up a full Edubuntu with all the apps over Wine
<nox-Hand> To show them how it works
<nox-Hand> Then they can chose
<nox-Hand> choose*
<ogra> ajmitch, ltsp-build-client --kiosk installs metacity, firefox, sound and themes in the client chroot ... if oyu boot a client ff starts fullscreen ... if you reboot a client the image gets reset properly
<ajmitch> sounds useful
<ogra> a simple webkiosk
* ajmitch wonders if NEW will get touched this week
<ogra> currently it's missing an extra option for the homepage url (i'm fixing that after herd4) then you will be able to run your library webapp on the server and all clients can access it ;)
* ajmitch will probably just upload new authtool revisions & let NEW collect duplicates
<ajmitch> I'm sure dholbach will give me a universe UVF exception for awhile :)
<nox-Hand> How is Edubuntu with Danish Lang support?
<ajmitch> kiosk mode sounds like a popular option - I've seen similar stuff used a lot
<ogra> nox-Hand, you need to install the danish langpack after install, its not on the CD in edgy/dapper .... feisty will change that though
<nox-Hand> We have a lot of PCs at my school doing that in Win2K
<nox-Hand> (kiosk)
<nox-Hand> ogra: Not a problem
<nox-Hand> More whether there would be a lot that was not translated yet?
<ogra> if you can download a DVD, i'd suggest doing that, it contains al langpacks
<RichEd> nox-Hand: you'll also need to do some looking around yourself ... the wiki site has a good search facility :)
<RichEd> wiki.ubuntu.com
<RichEd> also try using google with: [+site:ubuntu.com your_search_terms]  it looks across all of the www help and wiki site pages
<nox-Hand> yay \o/
<RichEd> ( not being rude or unfriendly ... just busy :)
<nox-Hand> RichEd: Not a problem ;) You have been most helpful!
<RichEd> ogra: I was pointed towards this yesterday: http://www.dokeos.com/
<RichEd> I'll take a decent look at it for Edulinux when I have a chance ... just wanted to know if you have heard of it ?
<ogra> looks intresting
<nox-Hand> What is this DokeOS? Never ever heard of it :P
<jsgotangco> dokeos
<jsgotangco> nice name
<jsgotangco> heh
<RichEd> About Dokeos
<RichEd> Dokeos is an Open Source elearning and course management web application translated in 34 languages and helping more than 1.000 organisations worldwide to manage learning and collaboration activities.
<ogra> but dont forget, the decision for moodle was based on the amount of support adoption and documentation you can get for it
<RichEd> yep ... as an additional not as a substitute ... we should at least be aware of it in case someone proposes it
<nox-Hand> RichEd: I know :P Sounds cool x)
<highvoltage> ogra: I quite like how the --kiosk, --workstations stuff works with ltsp-build-client (from what I've read), it's UBER COOL!!
<ogra> well, its getting there
<ogra> i need to find an easy soluton to install flash in the kiosk mode
<highvoltage> what's the difficult part, accepting the license?
<ogra> no
<ogra> making it easy for the user ....
<ogra> i need a script that chroots into the client etc etc
<highvoltage> aah
<ogra> i dont want to bother users with "chroot into /opt/ltsp, now change your sources.list to enable multiverse etc etc"
<highvoltage> I thought that was planned to be integrated into the LTSP manager?
<ogra> not for feisty
<ogra> i'll be happy if ltsp-manager works for the default part in lts.conf by release ... building python-ltsp took a lot of time  ... but will make gui tools a charm in feisty+1
* ajmitch hacks out some ugly
<ogra> i wanted a solution from the ground up, so ltsp-manager suffers a bit this release, but we'll have python-ltsp in the future
<ogra> it will make it a lot easier to write web or commandline tools .... or simply a status monitor that pings you if oune of the ltsp services goes down
<ajmitch> there, some more ugly bits hacked out, now I need some more shiny bits to replace them
<cbx33> hi guys
<cbx33> anyone know much about working on mailman mailing lists
<ogra> cbx33, tfhee was mailman maintaine for quite some time in debian
<ogra> *tfheen
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> my new mailing list isn't working
<cbx33> well it is but I' ma mamber and I'm not getting the posts
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<RichEd> ping ogra
<bddebian> Heya
<Petaris> Has anyone here set up and edubuntu LTSP server that gets user auth via OpenLDAP/OpenDirectory?
<RichEd> ^ sbalneav / ogra ... any comment here for Petaris
<sbalneav> Petaris: Yep, I have.
<sbalneav> Open LDAP is what I use.
<Petaris> oh, cool
<ogra> RichEd, not from my side i dont have any windows licenses
<ogra> oh
<RichEd> ogra: nor does half of SE asia ;)
<ogra> sorry i read that as active directory
<RichEd> hi scotty ... sorry to get you involved before greeting you :)
<Petaris> sbalneav: Was it difficult to set up?
<ogra> openldp works just fine here ... i did some tests for the edubuntu-auth-server spec
<Petaris> ogra: its ok, thats what I am usually asking about
<Petaris> :)
<ogra> i didnt use opendirectory though
<Petaris> hrm
<ogra> http://www.moduli.net/pages/sarge-ldap-auth-howto
<sbalneav> Petaris: LDAP auth is slightly tricky to set up, but not impossible.  I basically followed a Debian guide a couple of years ago, and it's worked fine since.
<ogra> its similar to set it up in ubuntu
<Petaris> I am testing an Apple OS X server and I want to know if I can get auth working for my LTSP servers
<Petaris> sbalneav: I have the server set up
<Petaris> I just need the LTSP servers to be clients
<Petaris> ogra: ok thanks, I'll have a look at that how-to
<Petaris> is the client hard to setup or were you refering to the server side
<Petaris> ?
<ogra> both
<ogra> the evil part is to get pam right
<Petaris> more difficult then Active Dir auth?
<Petaris> ahh yes
<Petaris> pam
<ogra> just setting up slapd or libnss-ldap on its own isnt to hard
<Petaris> ok
<ogra> but integrating the pieces is
<Petaris> so its just the pam rules
<ogra> do you use ldm ?
<Petaris> I have weird issues with Active Dir auth so I am looking to switch to something else
<Petaris> ldm?
<ogra> the ltsp login manager
<Petaris> that sound so familiar
<Petaris> oh
<Petaris> ok
<ogra> or do you use xdmcp with gdm over the net ?
<Petaris> well I use what ever the default is
<ogra> ok
<Petaris> but I use xfce4 for the desktop
<ogra> then you use ldm ... make sure to add your rules to /etc/pam.d/ssh then
<Petaris> not that it matters
<Petaris> ok
<ogra> since thats what ldm uses in the backend ;)
<Petaris> and the how-to you posted should go over most of that?
<ogra> it should give you a hint what to do, yes
<Petaris> oh, is there a way to keep root from being authed to the server
<Petaris> just have it remain local
<Petaris> ok
<ogra> just dont add root to the ldap db ?
<ogra> pam should look locally if it doesnt find it on the ldap server ...
<Petaris> and it will just fall back to local auth?
<Petaris> oh, ok
<Petaris> cool
<ogra> (if you configured it like that)
<Petaris> right
<Petaris> ok, time to play
<Petaris> I am actually going to try this on an zenwalk box I have sitting here
<Petaris> but the LTSP servers are edubuntu of course
<cstextiles> Does anyone knows any utility through which i can use the vnc like utility in a ltsp environment?
<willvdl> ogra, would it be safe to say the following: (gimme second to type it)
<willvdl> Edubuntu can be installed/config'd as: Stand-Alone Workstation (all inclusive desktop PC)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> even though config'd sounds a bit weird :)
<willvdl> or as Server, where Server could include LTSP and or email/LAMP server
<ogra> no
<ogra> server always icludes ltsp in edubuntu
<willvdl> Server is LTSP rather
<willvdl> does our Server install include postfix,dovecote, apache etc. ?
<cstextiles> Does anyone knows any utility through which i can use the vnc like utility so that i can watch out the ltsp clients's screen?
<willvdl> cstextiles, chat to cbx33 about TCM...
<ogra> no
<ogra> it install schooltool, samba (unconfigured) and ltsp
<willvdl> ogra, gotcha, so different to ubuntu server
<ogra> *installs
<ogra> yep
<cstextiles> cbx33:  Does anyone knows any utility through which i can use the vnc like utility so that i can watch out the ltsp clients's screen? Someone pointed me out to chat with u regarding TCM for this question
<ogra> for moodle we'll use their LAMP though
<cbx33> cstextiles, in feisty TCM will allow you to do this
<willvdl> okie. all off one CD
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=209
<cstextiles> I am using 6.10 is it Fiesty Sorry but a newbie type and so asking
<cbx33> there ya go cstextiles
<cbx33> currently you can't do it in 6.10
<cbx33> it will debut in 7.04
<willvdl> ogra, with install options just like edgy.
<cbx33> I'm not sure if ogra has plans to backport it?
<willvdl> (just want my handbook frontmatter to be spot on)
<ogra> cbx33, why me ?
<ogra> cbx33, feel free to do it if you dont have better things to do wit your time ;)
<cstextiles> cbx33: Ya thanks I got that
<cbx33> well...i was kinda asking if it was a possibility
<willvdl> lol
<cstextiles> ogra: Please don't feel offended he was just giving me the possibilities
<willvdl> ogra's our bitch. he does what we say :P
<willvdl> or we poke him with sticks
<ogra> cstextiles, i dont feel offended :)
<ogra> cbx33, sure, feel free
<cbx33> hehe
<willvdl> cbx33, when is oyur book chapter released?
<cbx33> it should work fine on edgy
<cbx33> as it was mainly developed under edgy ...
<cbx33> says a rather embarrsed cbx33
<ogra> cbx33, i'm not sure ... you wont be able to use the binaries ...
<cbx33> willvdl, I'm waiting on Burgwork and mako to check it through
<ogra> (python2.5)
<ogra> its not in edgy ...
<cbx33> hmm
<ogra> so a recompile at least is needed
<cbx33> what about using 2.
<cbx33> 4
<cbx33> oh yeh
<cbx33> of course
<ogra> its not in feisty :)
<cstextiles> cbx33: Do u mean Toolkit for Conceptual Modeling (TCM)? or some other tool as this tool desciption seems me something different? Or is that tool has not been uplaoded I know that it will not be avialbe for 6.1 but just gathering info?
<ogra> feisty == py2.5 ----> edgy == 2.4
<cbx33> Thin Client Manager
<ogra> you dont need TCM for vnc though
<cbx33> no true
<Burgwork> cbx33: do you have time to chat about it at some point?
<ogra> just install a vnc server in the client chroot .... and use the tsclient from te gnome menu
<cbx33> Burgwork, sure...(gulp)
<cbx33> is now convenient?
<Burgwork> cbx33: nope
<cstextiles> I am using LTSP and so my LTSP client and the server shows the same ip address if i do ifconfig?
<Burgwork> ogra: what does kiosk mode do?
<cstextiles> ogra: I am using LTSP and so my LTSP client and the server shows the same ip address if i do ifconfig?
<ogra> Burgwork, /lastlog :P
<cbx33> Burgwork, when is good for you?
<Burgwork> ogra: ah, ok
<Burgwork> cool
<ogra> cstextiles, you are logged in on the server, indeed it shows the IP of the system your desktop is executed on
<ogra> imagine the client as only monitor/keyboard/mouse add-ons to the server, not as a realy system
<ogra> *real
<cstextiles> ogra:ya and so I can't use the VNC to look into the client's screen
<RichEd> ping ogra
<cstextiles> ogra: as it asks for the IP address or may be I don't know how to use VNC?
<ogra> cstextiles, you can ... the client ip is shown on the ldm screen (bottom right) the graphical output still happens on the client
<ogra> (i know its confusing)
<cstextiles> ogra: ldm? I did not got you
<cbx33> Burgwork, when did you want to chat?
<Burgwork> cbx33: hmm, let me see. I just started my work day here
<cbx33> ah right
<cbx33> sorry Burgwork I should have said sooner?
<cbx33> can i just ask if you don't mind....is it looking ok? or shockinly bad?
<Burgwork> usually I don;t talk with this nick unless I am at work :)
<cbx33> sorry Burgwork
<ogra> cstextiles, ltsp login manager, the thing you type your username and assword into
<Burgwork> no worries
<cbx33> you can drop me a mail if you want
<cstextiles> ogra: So by using that ip address I can see the screen of the client from server using VNC
<ogra> cstextiles, right, if you have a vnc server runnig on the client
<cstextiles> ogra: ya i got that. Thanks for the help
<Burgwork> cbx33: have you heard of this product: http://www.stagecast.com/
<cbx33> no i havn't
<cbx33> looks quite cool
<cbx33> like gcompris
<ogra> well, rather like a gcompris editor :)
<ogra> cool tool
<ogra> but proprietary, no ?
<Burgwork> yes, sadly
<Burgwork> school in the US contacted us about using our stuff with that
<maccam94> i'm looking to set up a good sized (700 computer) network, but right now i'm just testing on a couple of machines. I want some sort of network authentication available, is LDAP the main way to do this?
<maccam94> or are there other alternatives?
<Burgwork> ldap is the way
<maccam94> k
<maccam94> and is there a good GUI for it, or is it mostly configured through the cli?
<cbx33> ping Burgwork
<lewmnik_> I really like all the new stuff in Feisty, this will be HUGE!
<cbx33> know you're at work....really quick question - are you able to chat at all today? if so...in how many hours?
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi Pete
<LaserJock> cbx33: do you know how to use glade pretty well? I assume yes
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> i'd say i can use it
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> LaserJock, what ya need
<LaserJock> cbx33: you on gtalk?
<cbx33> yeh hang on
<cbx33> i am now
<SimonAnibal> See you all later!
<Burgwork> cbx33: pong
<cbx33> Burgwork, did you get my question?
<cbx33> twas merely, when do you finish work today?
<Burgwork> cbx33: ah, I finish in 3 hours, but I have a class tonight
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> np
<cbx33> is it csomething you can mail me about?
<cbx33> or is it thatbad?
<Burgwork> can we chat tomorrow night, my time?
<cbx33> not tomorrow
<cbx33> perhaps thursday?
<cbx33> what time evening your time?
<cbx33> i can do
<cbx33> 08-16 UTC
<cbx33> and then possibly 19-22 UTC
<Burgwork> 08 utc is midnight my time
<Burgwork> I can do that
<cbx33> it'll be a little after that....
<cbx33> probably around 8:30
<cbx33> as that's just when i get into work
<Burgwork> ugh, ok
<Burgwork> btw, Userful might have something for your "charging for printing" problem
<Burgwork> but one way is to use the pure cups queue
<cbx33> would it be easier to get mako to deal?
<Burgwork> simply set the printer to pause
<cbx33> ah cool
<Burgwork> then just bring up the admin panel and unpause print jobs
<Burgwork> this something several of our customers have in place already
<cbx33> excellent
<cbx33> so what ya wanna do....08:30 utc thursday, or something else?
<Burgwork> that time works
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll meet you then
<cbx33> do i need to bring anything?
<Burgwork> yourself
<Amaranth> cbx33: ack, web filtering again
<cbx33> Amaranth, yup
<Amaranth> whenever i feel like doing some real math i start poking at willowng again
<Amaranth> but then i go back to the shiny bits in compiz :P
<ajmitch> Amaranth: resist it
<Amaranth> ajmitch: but we've got OS X spaces before OS X :)
<ajmitch> yay
* ajmitch still prefers a WM that works :)
<Amaranth> my only bugs now are that if i start compiz with a minimized window the window is just _gone_ and it'll randomly lock up when you change the resolution (like to play a game)
<Amaranth> i'll figure them out or poke people until they do it for me
<Arjuna> just installed edubuntu 6.10 on an old pentiumII
<Arjuna> "unable to locate RDSP" on boot
<Arjuna> can't get past login, reboots to login after starting x and showing the desktop
<Arjuna> ideas?
<Arjuna> thx
#edubuntu 2007-02-14
<kgoetz> i want to execute a script on logout. gdm has /etc/gdm/PostSession/Default, but is that file read by ltsp? i'm under the impression the ltsp stuff uses ldm (or something)
<kgoetz> i ask because i want to remove a users home directory when they log out, and recreate it (its a public account)
<cstextiles> Can we start vino-server for all the users by default?
<Burgwork> kgoetz: sbalneavs was working on a pam method for doing that
<kgoetz> Burgwork: mmm ok. so that means 'it will be in future releases'?
<Burgwork> no idea, given FF has passed
<Burgwork> ask scott for the latest source code
<kgoetz> right. i'll keep looking then. i'm after something that will work for dapper now ;)
<Burgwork> a script will do it
<Burgwork> I have no idea about how ldm runs hooks
<Burgwork> ogra: ^ ?
<kgoetz> hm. meeting starting. bbl
<kgoetz> um.... i just noticed ldm isnt installed. is it not a dependancy of ltsp-server?
<kgoetz> or is it only installed on the client?
<kgoetz> aoh, only on client. sorry :|
<pisi_de> ping ogra
<ogra> pisi_de, pong ?
<pisi_de> juliux here
<pisi_de> we have a sun ultra 60 and are trying to buld ltsp-client i386 on that machine
<pisi_de> but it is still tryiong to build the sparc version, too
<pisi_de> we tried "--arch i386"
<ogra> i never tested on sparc ...
<pisi_de> ist there any config file for ltsp-build-client script?
<ogra> but the arch code is built so that is will only build i386 on i386 or amd64 hw ...
<ogra> there is stuff that needs to be executed in the chroot ... so you need a compatible arch
<ogra> i have a tarball with an edgy chroot ...
<ogra> if that helps ...
<pisi_de> also building on another machine and copying onto the sun?
<ogra> you need to unpack it to /opt/ltsp/i386 and run the two ltsp-update-* commands (untested)
<pisi_de> ok
<ogra> indeed, you could also build from an i386 that you run from a liveCd, mount /opt/ltsp readwrite via nfs from the server and run ltsp-build-client there
<ogra> afterwards you always need to run the ltsp-update-* scripts ...
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-tarballs/ltsp-tarball-20060211.tgz
<juliux_> ogra, my idea was to copy the ltsp chroot from my notebook via scp to the sun and then run ltsp-update
<ogra> that might work too
<juliux_> ok, we will test it;9
<juliux_> ogra, and pls mail me your postaddresse;)
<ogra> oh, crap, i forgot, sorry
<juliux_> don t worrie it is not to late;)
<juliux_> ogra, should i use the postaddress from your domain?
<ogra> heh, no
<juliux_> hehe
<ogra> sent
<juliux_> thxs
<juliux_> ogra, is there any thing we should test next weekend?
<juliux_> ogra, we have a lot of clients and different hardware there, and a lot of time;)
<ogra> test herd4 :)
<ogra> and the addon CD :)
<juliux_> ok
<rodarvus> good morning
<juliux_> hi rodarvus
<juliux_> rodarvus, did you tested ltsp5 on sparc?
<rodarvus> hey juliux_
<rodarvus> I don't have sparc at home, unfortunately
<juliux_> hehe
<rodarvus> (I used to, a few years ago, though)
<rodarvus> but the machines I had aged quite quickly, and I just gave them to someone else
<rodarvus> (they use *a lot* of electric power, too)
<juliux_> ok
<juliux_> ogra, we get an x on the thinclient;)
<juliux_> ogra, but then the networkcard in the sun get a problem:(
<ogra> what kind of problem ?
<pisi_de> maybe a faulty network card
<juliux_> it is a hardware problem
<pisi_de> trying other device
<juliux_> ogra, but the ltsp was working
<ogra> yay
<juliux_> after we fixed the nfs export;)
<ogra> fixed ?
<juliux_> yes there was no entry in the /etc/exports
<ogra> oh, right, ltsp-build-client sets the /etc/exports entry
<juliux_> i copied the entry from my notebook and the the ltsp starts and we get an ldm login at the thinclient
<ogra> great
<juliux_> ogra, now it is working;)
<ogra> yay
<ogra> using your chroot ? or the tarball ?
<juliux_> yes my chroot
<juliux_> where is the difference to your tarball?
<ogra> there shouldnt be one
<juliux_> ok
<juliux_> ogra, if we log in on the thinclient, x died and we get the ldm login screen again
<pisi_de> by using metacity session instead of default gnome session we get only a black backround with white mouse, no menu. but X does not die
<juliux_> ogra, it is possible to start only a xterm on the thinclient and not a whole gnome desktop?
<ogra> create an ~/.xsession :)
<ogra> but first check in ~/.xsession-errors why the gnome session dies
<pisi_de> .Xsession creaed
<pisi_de> created
<pisi_de> gnome-screensaver caused dead and restart of X server
<ogra> strange
<ogra> do the sessions work locally on the server ?
<juliux_> yes on the sun is gnome working well
<juliux_> ogra, that is the http://www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/7534/ xession-erros file
<ogra> what makes you think its gnome-screensaver ?
<pisi_de> starting only xterm
<pisi_de> and after that te screensaver kills x
<ogra> ??
<pisi_de> starting X with only xterm. then starting metacity, gnome-panel and gnome-screensaver in this order from the xterm
<pisi_de> maybe the screensaver ist not the only application causing this problem, but it ist one of them
<ogra> how is gnome-screensaver supposed to run without session dbus ?
<juliux_> ahh
<ogra> you need to run the complete session to test it ...
<ogra> which is a bit tricky, since if you have an ~/.xsession file that will override all other sessions if you just execute /etc/X11/Xsession
<juliux_> ok
<juliux_> so we should try to start every thing listed in /etc/X11/Xsession
<ogra> well, it sources a lot of stuff from /etc/X11/Xsession.d
<juliux_> i see
<ogra> probably install xfce, then you can log in to that (it will show up in the session selector after installing it)
<juliux_> thxs
<ogra> select it, open an xterm there and try to run /etc/X11/Xsession ... (gnome will complain about a window manager running already)
<ogra> oh, i mean xfwm above
<ogra> not xfce, no need for the whole desktop
<juliux_> we will try that;)
<juliux_> ogra, xfwm fvwm are booth not running, but fluxbox is running;)
<juliux_> ogra, it is a gnome problem;)
<VincentMX> hi
<VincentMX> where can i get any dutch Kanagram language packs?
<juliux_> VincentMX, it should be a part of the ducht kde language pack
<VincentMX> juliux_: ok
<VincentMX> some parts of kde programs are in english
<VincentMX> i need to down some vocabularies for Kanagram and KHangman
<VincentMX> does anybody know, where i can get those?
<bddebian> Heya
<nixternal> I should be connecting right around 20:00 UTC for today/tonight's meeting :)
<nixternal> I will be chillin' in the school cafe
<Spec> Is anyone here going to UbuCon?
<Spec> well, at any rate, i am...and i was asked to do a presentation/demo of edubuntu, any chance anyone here has any materials that would be useful presentation-wise?
<Spec> also, can anyone point me to a list of changes edubuntu makes to standard-ltsp?
<highvoltage> Spec: from LTSP version 5, Ubuntu's LTSP = LTSP.org
<Spec> meh, i haven't used ltsp since...3? maybe 4
<Spec> does it still use tftp?
<highvoltage> it does indeed
<highvoltage> just to download the initial kernel though
<Spec> yeap
<Spec> i thought edubuntu was trying to implement security w/ ltsp?
<highvoltage> it does
<Spec> in which ways has it changed since....two years ago? :P (if the list isn't too long)
<highvoltage> hardware detection has greatly improved, it now uses debian's hardware detection scripts
<highvoltage> it uses ssh to export the GUI now, instead of XDMCP
<Spec> ah
<highvoltage> that's a big security boost
<highvoltage> lots of extras have been added
<Spec> does it put applications on the thinclients?
<highvoltage> sound is getting better on clients
<Spec> ie: firefox
<highvoltage> usb flash disks now automount on client
<highvoltage> in the next version it would be possible
<Spec> sound has worked for years (for me), maybe i'm lucky
<highvoltage> it has a dounside though
<Spec> what's it called to put an app on a thinclient?
<highvoltage> you can only currenly run all apps localy, or from the server
<highvoltage> not a mixture of the two
<highvoltage> (but still diskless)
<Spec> yeah
<Spec> so either all or nothing?
<juliux> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi juliux
<juliux> highvoltage, did you have the drupal theme tar allready done?
<highvoltage> I have, can I email it to you?
<juliux> highvoltage, yes you can
<Spec> how easy is it to 'rebrand' edubuntu?
<highvoltage> quite easy
<Spec> as simple as making a theme or is there a script for rebranding and/or a how-to?
<highvoltage> there's a how-to on remastering ubuntu CD's
<Spec> ah, so it all applies to edubuntu just the same
<highvoltage> besides that you just have to make new usplash, gdm themes, etx
<highvoltage> yep
<Spec> there's another track on that i believe, so i'll only briefly mention it
<highvoltage> juliux: emailed. sorry, meant to send it sooner already.
<Spec> i wonder if i should make a oopresentation or not
<juliux> highvoltage, it is ok
<juliux> highvoltage, i had no time yet to use it;)
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: please behave yourself this time
<edubuntugirl> <sad face> ok </sad face>
<LaserJock> ajmitch: btw, I got my GTK/C++ stuff to work out last night
<LaserJock> I'm sort of suprised it worked
<ajmitch> well done :)
* ajmitch got very little done, needed sleep
<ogra> ******** Reminder * Edubuntu meeitng in #ubuntu-meeting in 13 minutes **********
<LaserJock> oh geeze, I forgot
<ogra> ******** Reminder * Edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 4 minutes **********
<ogra> ******** Reminder * Edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting starting now **********
<willvdl> woop
<willvdl> timing :)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<nixternal> so it looks like it was a good meeting
<nixternal> one of these days I will go for some Edubuntu membershiip (yes I know once you have one they are all the same, but it is the feeling of pride being on that great list)
<willvdl> come to Seville
<nixternal> sure, like the commercials says...
<nixternal> Got Money?
<nixternal> ;p
<juliux> willvdl, is there any sponsorships for sevilla?
<willvdl> probably
* juliux has also a finance problem;)
* willvdl has seen a euro once and dreams of one day owning one
<juliux> willvdl, should we send you one euro ?
<ogra> heh
<nixternal> when is Seville?
<nixternal> I am to lazy to look it up on the wiki :)
<willvdl> beginning May
<ogra> UES is may 3 and 4
<ogra> UDS starts on the 6th iirc
<nixternal> man, it has to always been when school is in session
<juliux> 5 may is community day
<nixternal> do one in Chicago already :)
<juliux> beginning of may is not a good time to travel from germany to spain
<nixternal> heh, by the time one gets done in Chicago, I will be living in either Europe (Greece or Spain) or Mexico (beach or, umm beach)
<nixternal> juliux: walk :)
<nixternal> stick the thumb out and hitch a ride
<juliux> nixternal, the first may is free in germany so many people take three days off and then they have 6 six days for holiday
<nixternal> man, I am moving to Germany then :)
<willvdl> juliux so come end of April
<nixternal> I need to either live on the beach, or a nice small villa
<juliux> willvdl, lol
<nixternal> both must indeed have high-speed though
<juliux> nixternal, ok you come to germany and we will work to sevilla;)
<juliux> willvdl, what should i do the days in spain?
<willvdl> it's downhill, you could skate there
<nixternal> man, I had a hell of a time flying to Canada a few months back because my name is on the list of terrorists or whatever it is
<nixternal> stupid government
<nixternal> how many Rich Johnsons have been accused of being a terrorist
<willvdl> one?
<nixternal> I have one of the most common names in the world
<nixternal> willvdl: haha, I wonder what my dad has been hiding :)
<ogra> i bet there are more john smitht's
<nixternal> ogra: oh that is a fact
<ogra> :)
<nixternal> I just met a John Smithe today, he spells his name with the e at the end
<willvdl> Qaryn Smythe : Karen Smith
<willvdl> righteous
<nixternal> heh
<willvdl> OK, nearly midnight. I need to go and pretend to my GF that nothing happened
<willvdl> the village folk do talk so
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> g'nite, I need to get to class anyways
<willvdl> I really think you should all join the Flat Earth Society and then I can keep normal office hours
<willvdl> ciao
<juliux> omg the cheapest flyight from dresden to sevilla and back is 270
<juliux> and i need 5h
<Spec> where's the logs for this channel?
<Spec> nevermind, found 'em
#edubuntu 2007-02-15
<cbx33> ping Burgwork
<Burgwork> cbx33: pong
<cbx33> you at work?
<Burgwork> see the nick
* cbx33 understands
<LaserJock> cbx33: hi
<cbx33> hey Las
<ajmitch> hi cbx33
<cbx33> hey aj
<cbx33> I keep missing the tab button
<cstextiles> How can I assign rights to the menu in the Applications menu according to the users in Ubuntu?
<LaserJock> cstextiles: how do you mean?
<LaserJock> cstextiles: you want to hide the menu?
<LaserJock> or have a different menu for each user?
<cstextiles> LaserJock: I want to hide the menu according to the user
<cstextiles> LaserJock: But may also want to add menu according to the user in short have custom addition or deletion to the users menu according to the rights?
<LaserJock> hmm, that's sort of a tough issue
<LaserJock> one way is to use sabayon
<cstextiles> LaserJock: Does sabayon comes with the Edubuntu CD itself I mean can i install that with that CD itself as my machine does not have Internet?
<cstextiles> LaserJock: Does sabayon provide me all the facilities I am asking
<LaserJock> cstextiles: I *think* it's on the CD
<LaserJock> and it can do much more than the menus
<LaserJock> it's a profile editor
<LaserJock> so you create a profile, edit the menu, desktop, whatever you like
<LaserJock> and assign a user to that profile, and when they login that's what they get
<cstextiles> LaserJock: Thanks for the same and let me try Thanks again
<mathesis> se ogra
<mathesis> how can i watch dvds?
<cbx33> pong Burgundavia
<cbx33> whooops, i mean ping
<LaserJock> hi cbx33
<cbx33> hey Laser
<cbx33> sorry burgundavia....gotta go to work now
<Burgundavia> cbx33: sorry, but I really need to sleep
<Burgundavia> edubuntugirl: tell cbx33 that I send regrets but am tired
<edubuntugirl> Righto, Burgundavia!
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: your bot rocks
<cbx33> ping Burgundavia
<edubuntugirl> cbx33: by the way, Burgundavia told me to tell you 'I send regrets but am tired' 12 minutes and 10 seconds ago (on Thu Feb 15 09:59:08 2007)
<Burgundavia> I am off to bed
<Burgundavia> valentines and all that
<cbx33> yeh, sure
<cbx33> I did come on earlier
<cbx33> but you weren't around
<cbx33> I was sat up in bed
<cbx33> with my pocketpc
<cbx33> wanna try for tomorrow?
<cbx33> I'll try and get up early like today
<Burgundavia> yep, that should work
<Burgundavia> I was off at Valentines dinner
<cbx33> but if I don't manage to get up ealy enough we'll say same time
<cbx33> did you have a good valentines?
<cbx33> yeh we did that too
<cbx33> and went to cinema to see Hot Fuzz
<cbx33> great flim
<highvoltage> sounds like a porno movie.
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<cbx33> ehe
<edubuntugirl> oO
<edubuntugirl> oO
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: tell LaserJock http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/14/2129208&from=rss
<edubuntugirl> Righto, highvoltage!
<TeePOG> morning everyone
<juliux> morning
<TeePOG> seems everyone is hard at work on edubuntu :-D
<TeePOG> or are they just idling/
<TeePOG> ?
<`VL> Hello. Where can i see the list of software in edubuntu? Is there scilab included?
<jbrefort> `VL, http://packages.ubuntu.com
<jbrefort> scilab is 4.0 in edgy
<rodarvus> good morning
<RichEd> hi rodarvus
<rodarvus> hey RichEd
<jsgotangco> hello
<juliux> hi jsgotangco
<highvoltage> TeePOG: yes, I am!
<highvoltage> sorry, just left as I got your message
<TeePOG> oh, thought you didn't want to be reconnised by groupies ^.^
<highvoltage> heh
<jsgotangco> CGI:IRC? heh, he's in a browser
<TeePOG> well, some people have restrictive firewalls
<jsgotangco> yeah i have that one at work too
<jsgotangco> sucks so much
<TeePOG> personally, even if I don't allow IRC for my users, I need it myself
<TeePOG> mainly for tech help
<jsgotangco> yes
<TeePOG> so it's good that i normally end up as the firewall admin ~_^
<sbalneav> Morning all
<TeePOG> afternoon sbalneav
<willvdl> woot. ciao all
<bddebian> Heya
<ElementC> Working on converting our local school board.  They're mostly hooked, with a few (minor) problems.
<ElementC> anyway I need advice on customizing a demo liveCD
<cstextiles> Limit UserId Login to one LTSP Client.i.e. I require that a particular user can login through only one LTSP Client i.e. Suppose I have a network of 10 PCs then the user can login only from Hardware Machine A and cannot do it from Machine B.Is that possible?
<ElementC> feel free to redirect me.
<cstextile1> !samba
<ubotu> samba is is the way to cooperate with Windows environments. Links with more info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MountWindowsSharesPermanently and http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/windows-networking.html - Samba can be administered via the web with SWAT
<cstextile1> !mumble
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about mumble - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<cstextile1> !profile
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about profile - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<cstextile1> !bash
<ubotu> The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome) or K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE).  Manuals: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicCommands
<cstextile1> ogra: I am getting Connection refused error when I am trying to connect to LTSP Client from the Edubuntu Server
<ogra> there is nothing running on the client you could connect to, what do you want to do ?
<cstextile1> ogra: I had started the Remote Desktop and started the vncviewer 192.168.0.250:0 from the server to connect to the client
<ogra> where did you start the vnc server ? in the users session ?
<cbx33> ogra, any idea why I keep getting a silly permission denied message when trying to make a branch on LP?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> do you try to make a TCM branch ?
<cbx33> well....that is next on my list
<cbx33> once i make a phimage branch
<ogra> good ...
<cbx33> because it's small and easy
<ogra> i was asked yesterday for the TCM source ...
<cbx33> ogra, I have my key registered on LP
<ogra> cant remember by whom, but i promised to ask you
<cbx33> ok I'll do that soon
<cbx33> how can i check it's working?
<ogra> make a commit :)
<ogra> cairo is tricky ...
<cbx33> i did bzr push --create-prefix sftp://petesavage@bazaar.launchpad.net/~petesavage/phimage/phimage-devel
* ogra pokes ldm with a stick ...
<cbx33> ogra, did you add my reboot button yet...poke poke
<ogra> that should work
<cbx33> yeh it doesn't
<ogra> not yet ...
<cbx33> maybe my ssh setup is wrong
<ogra> i'm jus switching the whole UI to cairo
<cbx33> what do i need ssh wise
<cbx33> my key is present and correct
<cstextile1> ogra: Yes I started the server in the users session
<ogra> nothing, your sshkey needs to be in your ~/.ssh dir and the public key needs to be on LP
<cbx33> that's all done
<ogra> cstextile1, well, that starts a vnc server on the edubuntu server ... the user sesssion runs on the server, not on the client
<ogra> cbx33, whats the error ?
<cbx33> permission denied(publickey)
<ogra> is phimage a registered product ?
<cbx33> ogra, ok fixed it
<cbx33> the ssh leys differed
<ogra> aha
<cbx33> silly cbx33
<cbx33> do you want a new product created for tcm?
<ogra> might make sense
<cbx33> and shall I grab the source pacakge and upload that as the first branch?
<ogra> sounds sane ...
<cbx33> ok
<cstextile1> ogra: No I go to the LTSP client I start the Remote Desktop over there
<cbx33> ogra do we have an edubuntu project registered on lp?
<cstextile1> ogra: and then run the vncviewer over the server with the Ip address of the client
<ogra> cstextile1, you are logged in on the console on the thi client ?
<ogra> cbx33, nope, not beyond the edubuntu packages
<cbx33> ok#
<ogra> cstextile1, a thin client gui session always runs on the server ... if you are logged in via the gui its the same as if you are logged in locally on the server
<ogra> so all you star if you start remote desktop from the gui is a vnc server on the server, not on the client
<cbx33> ogra I'm gonna include the debian folder too in the repo
<ogra> to start a vnc server on the client you need a vnc server that is started during boot of the client ... not related to your desktop session
<cstextile1> ogra: I goto the LTSP client hardware start it with Etherboot floppy and then goto remote desktop and start the Remote Desktop i.e. vino-server then I goto the Server machine start "vncviewer 192.168.0.250:0"
<ogra> as i said, that cant work
<cbx33> if i have the dsc, orig and diff how do i get it to extract it all agaoin?
<cstextile1> How to start the VNC server from the boot of the Ubuntu client i.e. I think by changing .bash_priofile or some type of file. Can you please convey me the path of that file as well as the command as If i type vino-server it start the GUI asking all the options of the Remote Desktop so someway to start the VNC server without popping the Remote Desktop
<cstextile1> ogra: How to start the VNC server from the boot of the Ubuntu client i.e. I think by changing .bash_priofile or some type of file. Can you please convey me the path of that file as well as the command as If i type vino-server it start the GUI asking all the options of the Remote Desktop so someway to start the VNC server without popping the Remote Desktop
<cbx33> nm
<cbx33> got it
<ogra> cstextile1, you need to create an initscript for the vnc server in the client chroot in /opt/ltsp/<arch>
<ogra> and install vnc server software
<cstextile1> Is vino-server same as vnc server?
<ogra> no
<ogra> vino-server uses vnc server, but is a gnome ap that needs gnome around
<cstextile1> ok so that means if i have vino server installed it already has vnc server installed
<cbx33> ogra, all done
<ogra> cstextile1, the on the edubuntu server, yes, but not in the client environment in /opt/ltsp/<arch<
<cstextile1> ok so u mean initially a minimal linux is installed and we have to change that particular linux to support vnc-server
<ogra> right
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<cbx33> ogra, howz that coming by the way
<ogra> makes you root inside the clietn envronment on the server
<cbx33> ogra, are you going to branch from my branch now?
<ogra> cbx33, i slept about 8h the last three days, i havent had time for vnc yet ... herd4 prepearation took a lot
<cstextile1> Ok Now I am getting you. But is that also Ubuntu Linux or syslinux and how to install vnc server over that I mean as there are no Ubuntu packages involved?
<ogra> cbx33, yeps
<cbx33> ogra, that's find
<ogra> cstextile1, syslinux is a bootloader ...
<ogra> the chroot in /opt/ltsp/i386 is a cut down ubuntu ...
<cstextile1> ogra: How to install vnc server over that minimal linux?
<ogra> and indeed includes syslinux to boot PXE :)
<ogra> as i said above, become root in there, then you can use apt like on a normal system ... changes will show up on all running clients immediately
<cstextile1> ogra: I am a newbie type in Linux so sorry if i ask silly questions. first start up a terminal in server then use chroot in /opt/ltsp/i386 to change the root directory and then use apt command is that what you are saying? This will install vnc-server in that partcular Linux and then i can modify to start the vnc server package
<ogra> right
<ogra> all you do during the chrooted session will change the client environment ...
<ogra> you can leave it with "exit" or by hitting ctrl-d
<cstextile1> will that chroot command only affect that terminal i.e. displaying /opt/ltsp/i386 folder as /?
<ogra> since the client chroot is a normal ubuntu. you can use all commands you are using on the server as well ..
<ogra> right
<ogra>  /opt/ltsp/i386 becomes / and you become root inside that environment
<cstextile1> can I execute a command suppose some script file which is not located in the /opt/ltsp/i386 folder but in some other folder say /home/user1/app.sh in a way that i do not allow the user to look into the shell file but can execute the same?
<ogra> thats something you would do on the server, the client doesnt know any users
<cstextile1> ogra: What I require to convey is that the user1 cannot read the app.sh but has a link in the Desktop through which he can execute that file?
<ogra> that wont work for shell scripts ...
<cstextile1> ogra: can it work for executable?
<ogra> a shell needs to be able to read the script ... since the shell runs with the users rights the user needs to be able to read
<cstextile1> ogra: I know that logic and was wondering if there was any kind of such facility. But can executable be run like that?
<ogra> a shell script is an executable ...
<ogra> (or can be)
<ogra> you can write a c program and compile it ... the binary wont be readable this easy
<ogra> but with scripts you will always need the readability ...
<cstextile1> ogra: Ya I know that but the actual probs is that i need to protect Java executables and they can be easily decompiled and so was finding some ways as if there is any way then i could protect java executable
<ogra> i guess selinux could do such a thing, but thats beyond my kowledge
<cstextile1> !selinux
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about selinux - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<ogra> http://selinux.sourceforge.net/
<cstextile1> ogra: Thanks for the link
<cstextile1> ogra: Reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SELinux
<Burgwork> Laser_away: are you aware of http://www.kdau.com/projects/gelemental/
<ogra> looks like gperiodic
<Laser_away> Burgwork: yes
<LaserJock> ogra: it is in fact, a restart of gperiodic
<edubuntugirl> LaserJock: by the way, highvoltage told me to tell you 'http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/14/2129208&from=rss' 9 hours, 29 minutes and 37 seconds ago (on Thu Feb 15 11:36:43 2007)
<LaserJock> ogra, Burgwork: they are using the Blue Obelisk Data Repository, which is a significant improvment over gperiodic
<LaserJock> I'd like to get bodr into Universe for Feisty
<LaserJock> it's in Debian NEW right now
<flippant> hello everyone
<flippant> i am having an install issue, can anyone help?
<Burgwork> shoot
<flippant> installer hangs a7 97% on 2nd phase of install
<flippant> low memory mode, pentium pro 200, 10gb disk
<flippant> 48mb RAM
<flippant> system won't boot upon reset
<flippant> last message seen is 'cleaning up...' then hangs
<ogra> what do you expect to run on that hardware ?
<ogra> a desktop ?
<flippant> was trying to install stand alone workstation
<flippant> not enough RAM?
<ogra> heh
<ogra> you should have around 200MB for a standalone workstation
<flippant> no NIC so thin client not an option
<ogra> 48MB is just enough to load the kernel and half of X
<ogra> but for the other half it will already start swapping
<flippant> hmm that would be bad, i was hoping that it would have an alternate shell for low mem mode
<ogra> you can try with xubuntu ...
<flippant> its for a little girl... i was hoping to run tuxpaint
<ogra> how long did you wait at the "cleaning up" step ? it takes quite some time, even on my amd64
<flippant> overnight
<ogra> (you can check with alt-f4)
<ogra> oh, ok
<flippant> is tuxpaint too much to hope for on 48 ram?
<ogra> tuxpaint fulscreen as the only app will surely work ...
<ogra> probably even witha small WM
<flippant> is it worth the trouble i wonder, i am a linux newbie
<pscheie> flippant: check out damn small linux (dsl)
<pscheie> I've run it on P75 machines with 16MB RAM
<ogra> i think even xubuntu recommends 96M
<flippant> alright i will check out DSL
<pscheie> not sure if you'll get tuxpaint to work on it though
<cbx33> either that or puppy
<cbx33> oh no
<cbx33> 48Mb RAM
<pscheie> puppy wants 128MB
<cbx33> well i ran it on 96 :p
<cbx33> once
<pscheie> runs from ram, very quick
<cbx33> oh it's blistering
<cbx33> I'd love an ubuntu/puppy crossover
<cbx33> do we have a load to ram option on our live cd?
<flippant> thanks everyone i will hack at it some more
<flippant> i wont give up just yet
<cbx33> good flippant
<cbx33> :)
<flippant> have a good day everyone, later
<ogra> http://sinecera.de/ldm_bg_idea.png
<ogra> ...
<cbx33> ogra, I'm getting grilled in launchpad...hehe
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> providing feedback...as i cocked up the tcm page ;)
<cbx33> ogra, me is a little unsure of the red outline
<cbx33> makes it hard to read
<ogra> hmm, i like it ... it makes it so nicely attached to the background ...
<ogra> as if it would grow in it
<ogra> but i can ask kwwii to make some variations
<LaserJock> it looks like "Flaming Feisty Edubuntu" to me :-)
<cbx33> can we try a white glow?
<ogra> cbx33, am i in the artteam ? :P
<cbx33> well it's the first I've seen of it
<ogra> i just asked for a cropped version of the new usplash logo ... seems that animated him to play around :)
<cbx33> ahh i see
<Petaris> Hi all
<cbx33> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette
<Petaris> ogra: I just did a fresh install of edubuntu and am installing the LDAP client components listed in that how-to you pointed me too but I can't find libpam-ldap, libnss-ldap, or nscd
<Petaris> is there some other repo other then the defaults I have to point to in order to get those packages?
<ogra> universe ...
<Petaris> ahh
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> universe is not default
<Petaris> ok found them
<Petaris> thanks ogra
* ajmitch wonders if pitti will process NEW on his archive day
<Petaris> time to go
<Petaris> later all
<Burgwork> oh, there is a good LDAP howto on the help wiki
<Burgwork> ogra, ajmitch: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAPClientAuthentication
<cbx33> hey Amaranth
<Amaranth> hey cbx33
<cbx33> saw the blog post ;)
<Amaranth> :D
<cbx33> is there anything i can do to help out on willow after fesity is release?
<Amaranth> hmm
<Amaranth> dunno, i'm not sure what i want to do with it
<cbx33> what's missing from it now?
<Burgwork> there are a few features willow is missing
<Amaranth> it needs a web frontend, a way to login to bypass the blocking, and a firefox/epiphany plugin to mark things as bad/good
<Amaranth> and i'm not at all happy with the naive page reading it does to get tokens
<cbx33> i see
<Amaranth> probably should be using beautifulsoup or something to get extra info about the page
<Amaranth> like number of words, number of images, etc
<Amaranth> because porn sites are usually all images
<cbx33> heh
* cbx33 wouldn't know :p
<cbx33> the kids at the school could seem to be able to find them though
<jbrefort> LaserJock, thanks for the patch. Can you send me the latest version of the glade file?
<LaserJock> jbrefort: I didn't send that too?
<jbrefort> just the patch
<LaserJock> oops
<LaserJock> jbrefort: hmm, that patch didn't include the glade file?
<LaserJock> I thought I diffed the whole tree
<jbrefort> I did not see it
<LaserJock> oh, because that would be a new file
<jbrefort> yes it needs cvs add
<LaserJock> sent
<jbrefort> thanks
<ajmitch> Burgwork: that post about APOC on planet gnome looks interesting
<Burgwork> ajmitch: indeed. I just hope they coordinate with the sabayon guys at Novell to work on getting the two bits merged
<ajmitch> it'd be nice to have some good management tools
<Burgwork> indeed
<Burgwork> and something good that GNOME says "this is our stuff"
* ajmitch hopes it's not written in java
<ajmitch> even though java is being freed, I'm not a big fan
<ajmitch> mono seems to have better platform integration
<Burgwork> I suspect java will get more as it is freed
<ogra> if its free we'll ship it by default
<ajmitch> it may even become popular, finally
<Burgwork> hopefully for feisty+1
<Burgwork> but having a good set of management tools that are blessed by upstream will be a major boon
<cbx33> nn guys
#edubuntu 2007-02-16
<mathesis> how can define in lts.conf screen 1024x768?
<jaime_k> May I ask general questions here?
<jsgotangco> go ahead there aren't much people online at the moment though
<jaime_k> I was wondering how hard it was to use edubuntu in a netboot environment.
<jaime_k> I have Macs at my school that use Apple's NetBoot and the ISC-DHCP server (running on FreeBSD and configured by hand) at the moment.  I have no experience with Linux network booting.
<jsgotangco> i am not familiar with netbooting with macs :/
<jaime_k> In brief:  The Apple NetBoot feature "injects" itself inside existing DHCP infrastructures.  You sort of just turn it on in the GUI of the server and don't modify the existing DHCP server at all.
<jaime_k> I'm not entirely sure how it does it, to be honest.  :)
<jaime_k> My big question, though, is how hard is the edubuntu netbooting?
<cbx33> hey Burgundavia
<jsgotangco> hey
<cbx33> hey js
<jsgotangco> how's it going
<cbx33> good, u?
<jsgotangco> its alright
<jsgotangco> nothing much happening though
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> same here
<cbx33> howz the job
<mathesis> hi
<mathesis> les regalo unos pics
<mathesis> http://www.compuevolucion.cymaho.com/IMG007.JPG
<mathesis> http://www.compuevolucion.cymaho.com/IMG006.JPG
<mathesis> http://www.compuevolucion.cymaho.com/IMG008.JPG
<mathesis> http://www.compuevolucion.cymaho.com/IMG009.JPG
<mathesis> http://www.compuevolucion.cymaho.com/IMG010.JPG
<cbx33> can you stop pasting
<mathesis> http://www.compuevolucion.cymaho.com/IMG011.JPG
<crimsun> no pete, pasting is the new fad.
<mathesis> http://www.compuevolucion.cymaho.com/IMG013.JPG
<cbx33> heh
<mathesis> check the last image
<mathesis> check  las link ;)
<mathesis> cyber coffe linux with edubuntu ;)
<cbx33> cool ;)
<cbx33> ping burgundavia
<mathesis> its cool edbuntu
<mathesis> i love edubuntu
<mathesis> ;)
<mathesis> see you tomorrow
<RichEd-1> hi cbx33 mathesis
<cbx33> hey rich
<jsgotangco> hey RichEd
<RichEd> you're up early pete ?
* RichEd waves to jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hello
<cbx33> rich yes
<cbx33> got a meeting with corey
<cbx33> trying to catch him earlier so he can sleep
<Burgundavia> cbx33: you up now?
<Burgundavia> rock
<cbx33> yup
<RichEd> hey Burgundavia ... good early morning to you
<Burgundavia> good evening RichEd
<Burgundavia> is 20 past 10 here
<cbx33> on pocketpc, typing speed limited
<cbx33> if you need more i'll switch to laptop
<Burgundavia> shall we switch to gobby?
<cbx33> heck lemme do that
<cbx33> ooooh
<cbx33> lemme get laptop then
<Burgundavia> ok
<pete_> hey Burgundavia
<pete_> on laptop now
<Burgundavia> have you got a gobby server or do I need to poke a hole in my firewall?
<pete_> i don;t have one
<Burgundavia> ok, I will do so
<pete_> i only just installed gobby
<pete_> thanks
<Burgundavia> ip in pm
<LaserJock> hi guys
<Burgundavia> hey LaserJock
<pete_> hi LaserJock
<pete_> Burgundavia, you kill the server?
<pete_> hey Burgundavia_ what happened?
<Burgundavia_> pete_: sorry, laptop power died
<Burgundavia_> did you get everything
<Burgundavia_> ?
<pete_> 6yup
<Burgundavia_> ok, good
<highvoltage> msg nickserv identify fa shizzile dizzile ma nizzle fizzle bizzle
<LaserJock> wow, that's quite the password highvoltage
<ajmitch> it was :)
<Burgundavia> oopos
<RichEd> ping highvoltage & hello to LaserJock & ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi RichEd
<highvoltage> LaserJock: it's my geky gangsta rap way of saying good morning :)
<highvoltage> RichEd: pong
<ogra_> juliux, i just went to the postbox ....
<ogra_> many many thanks !
<ogra_> !!!
<juliux> ogra_, happy birthday
<ogra_> thanks !
<juliux> *sing*
<ogra_> heh
<juliux> we need sound over irc;)
<cbx33> ogra: it's your birthday?
<ogra_> yep, a bit ...
<juliux> cbx33, yes it is;)
<cbx33> HAPPY BIRTHDAY dude!!
<ogra_> thanks !! :)
<cbx33> feedback from Corey on chapter was good
<cbx33> thanks fro all the help on that ogra
<cbx33> are you ok with me logging bugs for tcm in malone now?? just so that I don;t forget them?
<ogra_> sure
<juliux> ogra_, the sparc is running fine with ltsp and fluxebox
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, a bit?
<cbx33> yeh i didn't get that either Kamping_Kaiser
<juliux> cbx33, i only get it because i ask ogra_ if i can come to essen this weekend to our edubuntu weekend;)
<ogra_> Kamping_Kaiser, well, there are others :)
<ogra_> its not only my b-day :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra_, i'm not sure i see, but happy birthday ;)
<juliux> in this channel it is your birthday;)
<cbx33> ogra_: you mean it's other peoples too?
<ogra_> juliux, right, in the canonical channel i actually share it with two others :)
<juliux> ogra_, if you need more stickers let me know, i have here 3500 stickers;)
<ogra> nice ...
<ogra> for UES i think
<juliux> i have 500 edubuntu
<juliux> 1500 ubuntu, 1000 kubuntu and 500 xubuntu
<juliux> but i think we can get more from jenda
<ogra_> i should probably sell them on the edulinux meeting next week :)
<juliux> hehe
<juliux> you can make a good profit with them;)
<juliux> one sticker cost us 0,07
<cbx33> are they nice stickers?
<ogra_> yep
* cbx33 wants to see
<juliux> cbx33, i will make a picture if i have a digikam
<cbx33> :( - no i dont
<jsgotangco> stickers! i like!
<cbx33> ogra: should i be filing bugs against source or product?
<ogra_> highvoltage, any specific core packages apart from all these plugins you want in ?
<ogra_> cbx33, depends ... what for ?
<cbx33> tcm
<ogra_> source
<rockprincess> Happy Birthday Ogra, just seen it!!!!!
<cbx33> methinks ogra wanted to keep it quiet....NO WAY !!!
<ogra_> rockprincess, thanks :)
<cbx33> when would we file against product?
<ogra_> upstream bugs ...
<cbx33> i see
<ogra_> but since you are upstream in ubuntu, you can keep them in one place
<ogra_> at the point where other distros adopt it (i could imagine redhat and k12) you need the upstream one
<rockprincess> am I the only one who wants to have a kubuntu sticker instead of an ubuntu one?! :D
<cbx33> right i see
<ogra_> rockprincess, they are available ...
* cbx33 wants all of them
<cbx33> what type of stickers are they?
<juliux> rockprincess, i have also kubuntu ones;)
<ogra_> edubuntu ones werent until recently ... :)
<cbx33> are they the ricking case ones
<juliux> cbx33, the powered by stickers
<rockprincess> juliux: i know, and you'll hopefully get me one when you come over to vienna....pleasssse! :)
<ogra_> cbx33, the replacements for "designed for the bad thing from M$)
<cbx33> YAY
<cbx33> how can we get hold of some?
<ogra> come to UES :)
<cbx33> heh
<juliux> hehe
<cbx33> not the most helpful of ideas :p
<juliux> cbx33, or ask jenda he prints the stickers
<cbx33> I'm willing to pay for some
<cbx33> the kids would love them here ;)
<juliux> cbx33, i also get the stickers from him
<cbx33> they've been after those stickeres for ages
* cbx33 doubts he'll be able to go to UDS either
<cbx33> :(
<jsgotangco> UDS
* jsgotangco wonders if he could come
<pips1> !seen RichEd
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen riched - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<pips1> edubuntugirl: !seen RichEd
<edubuntugirl> pips1: *blink*
<pips1> ack
<pips1> edubuntugirl: tell RichEd I'm hoping to briefly talk to you on irc today, please let me know your availability in the next 4 days before you travel
<edubuntugirl> Righto, pips1!
<pips1> ta
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: announce Happy birthday ogra!
<edubuntugirl> Hear Me Now!  Hear Me Now!  Announcement from highvoltage!  'Happy birthday ogra'!
<ogra> hehe, thanks
<cstextiles> ogra_:  Happy Birthday ogra heard from highvoltage
<highvoltage> ogra: on the Xfce packages, I suppose the best would be to do an apt-cache show xubuntu-desktop and remove all the stuff that doesn't make sense to include, such as abiword, xubuntu-artwork, etc
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i'm just finishing with the firsdt set of seeds ...
<ogra> i dont expect it to be perfect initially c:)
* highvoltage crosses fingers that it works ok'ish at least the first time :)
<highvoltage> it doesn't seem that there's that much that can go wrong though.
<pips1> ogra is it true?
<pips1> Happy birthday, then!!
<ogra> pips1, thanks :)
<pips1> Hope you are getting to be somewhere in the sun today! :-)
<ogra> MY DESK IS IN THE SUN :)
<pips1> (It's nice and sunny here in Zurich)
<ogra> OOPS
<ogra> sorry
<pips1> ?
<ogra> didnt mean to shout
<pips1> caps lock
<pips1> hehe
<pips1> my office is rather dark, but I had a nice bicycle ride earlier :)
<ogra_> it would be nice if people could please check that and give some feedback http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ship-addon
<juliux> ogra_, what is with the mount-plugin for xfce?
<ogra_> gnome-volume-manager is already installed, afaik it uses that if available
<cbx33> :(
<juliux> the mount-plugin is only a applet like the diskapllet for the gnome pannel
<cbx33> phimage has a memory leak :(
<ogra_> if not, feel free to suggest it
<cbx33> but i can't see why
<ogra_> juliux, is it in main ?
<juliux> ogra_, yes apt-cache show xfce4-mount-plugin
<ogra_> i can add all kind of stuff as long as its in maijn :)
<juliux> great
<cbx33> heheh
<juliux> ogra_, is there a deadline for the addon cd?
<pips1> ogra what about x-chat? is that included on the cd by default for feisty?
<ogra_> juliux, not for stuff thats already in main ...
<ogra_> pips1, i'm not yet sure if we shouldnt add it to the first CD
<juliux> ogra_, good
<pips1> ah
* juliux needs time to take a look on xfce
<ogra_> i will have to rip out the stuff i just moved ...
<ogra_> so we will have free space, but i dont know how much yet
<pips1> what about including some games?
<pips1> just a thought :)
<pscheie> ogra_: in the 6.10 livecd are some of the kedu packages removed (presumably for space reasons) ?
<ogra_> we never shipped all of kdeedu ...
<ogra_> only a set of packages ... and as far as i remember we never removed any
<ogra_> kdeedu removal only makes sense as a whole, the apps are not the space consuming parts
<pscheie> I'm just comparing 6.10 with K12ltsp 6, and k12 has a few more edutainment apps
<pscheie> not sure if Eric adds those or what
<pscheie> e.g. KGeography
<pscheie> I thought that was part of kde edu
<pscheie> not a big deal
<pscheie> I generally install k12, 'cause I'm used to it, but give out edubuntu livecds to people so they can check it out on their own
<pscheie> they're obviously not identical, but close enough
<ogra_> k12 has five CDs or so ...
<ogra_> we have one ... (now two with feisty)
<pscheie> will the live cd be two cds?
<ogra_> it's always a matter of space :)
<ogra_> nope
<cbx33> :( - GAH memory leaks are a pain
<ogra_> the liveCD will have a selection of the best of the two install CDs
<cbx33> and I have no idea why it's happening
<ogra_> i have to figure out this week how to shuffle the packages rigth
<pscheie> I like the livecd to show off the apps, don't need the ltsp parts
<pips1> live = "best of" --> wow!
<cbx33> ogra_: you don;t have any tips for memory leakage in python do you?
<pscheie> pips1: right; otherwise we have to give the teachers a laptop with the whole shebang installed
<pscheie> live CDs < $ than laptops
<pscheie> ogra_: if the apps are not the space consumers, what are?
<pips1> language packs
<pips1> for the apps
<pscheie> ah, that makes sense
<ogra_> pscheie, libs and translations
<ogra_> for one 200k kdeedu app i need half of kde on the CD
<pips1> right
<pscheie> right, I kinda figured that
* pips1 is playing around with the 'screem' app
<pscheie> I've been trying to figure out a way to build a livecd for k12 but considering an installed system consumes >3GB, it wasn't looking good
<pscheie> then it dawned on me: edubuntu has most of the apps
<pscheie> has anyone tried building a livedvd?
<ogra_> why ? we have one ...
<ogra_> no need that you extra build another one :)
<pscheie> right--I'd much rather use someone else's work than do my own ;-)
<pscheie> I'm just a little slow, it didn't occur to me until recently
<pscheie> does edubuntu have a live dvd?
<pips1> pscheie: http://www.edubuntu.org/Download "The DVD image contains both the live, and install ISO's, as well as all the packages officially supported by Ubuntu"
<pscheie> ah, I was just looking at the mirror at the local university here, which doesn't have the dvd iso
<pscheie> thanks pips1
<pips1> well, I'm actually not sure where to get the dvd... the link on edubuntu.org/Download brings you to the *daily build* which is for testing purposes only
<pips1> ^^ ogra?
<pscheie> I see an edgy dvd iso from Oct. 2006
<pips1> pscheie: where?
<pscheie> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/
<pips1> oh, I didn't pay attention
<pips1> I was only looking at the title of the page, but indeed, you can find both 6.10 release (edgy) and the daily build for feisty
<pips1> :)
<pscheie> pips1: do you know if the live dvd includes kgeography?
<pscheie> the live cd doesn't seem to have it
<pips1> I don't know
<pscheie> but i'm not sure if it's part of kde edu or not
<pscheie> I don't see it listed in the manifest for the dvd
<pips1> yeah, I was just checking myself :) so... no.
<pscheie> the kgeography website says it ships with kde-edu 3.5
<pscheie> what version of kde edu is in edubuntu 6.10?
<pips1> I don't think ubuntu main has the whole of kde-edu.. (not sure)
<bddebian> Heya
<pscheie> that's what I was asking ogra about, if they pick & choose parts from kde edu or include the whole bundle
<pscheie> it seemed like he indicated they just put the whole bundle in (why wouldn't they?)
<pips1> well, up to know, we had severe space limitation on the single cd...
<pscheie> right, I can appreciate that
<pscheie> that's why I thought perhaps the dvd would have the whole bundle
<pips1> I think the dvd is a bit of a "second class citizen", i.e. it's just a combination of the live and install CDs
<pips1> afaik
<pscheie> perhaps I'll try remastering the live cd, toss out some language files, put in some apps
<pscheie> make it a 'greatest hits' disk as you suggested
<pscheie> does the live cd include the ltsp parts?
<pscheie> I would not need or want those
<pscheie> since the point is to just show off the apps that come with it, to give to teachers, etc.
<pips1> right
<pips1> about the dvd, see http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=307060
* pips1 just stumbled across http://www.ubuntu-hr.org/ningi/
<pips1> ^^^ note that this is a community project
<pips1> i.e. not an official release
<pscheie> anyone know how much space the GUI installer takes up on the live cd?
<pscheie> I'd think not too much, but I really have no idea
<cstextile1> Is there any way to get the workstation id or no like ws001 from the LTSP client so that i can use in the shell script for some custom operation?
<pscheie> cstextile1: $LTSP_HOSTNAME
<cstextile1> pscheie: This works in the Edubuntu 6.10 as I had tried set command to see all the variables but could not find?
<pscheie> hmm, now I can't find it either
<pscheie> try $DISPLAY
<cstextile1> Does set command shows all the variables?
<pscheie> env
<cstextile1> What is the $DISPLAY shows?
<pscheie> env command shows all environment variables
<pscheie> $DISPLAY is an environment variable, not a command
<cstextile1> ok so "env" is the command  I had typed just "set" to see the variables
<cstextile1> what does plain "set" command shows
<pscheie> it shows the workstation number or address of your client
<pscheie> type 'echo $DISPLAY'
<cstextile1> pscheie: Ya I got that I will try from Edubuntu amchine which is at a different location and so asked you that
<pscheie> I think set is a holdover from C shell or some other earlier shell
<cstextile1> pscheie: ya that's why after showing some variables it shows some C constructs
<pscheie> if you want just the workstation number you can do this:
<pscheie> echo $DISPLAY|cut -d. -f1
<pscheie> and it will strip off the other parts
<cstextile1> I got that I have wrote that command and I will use the same command
<cstextile1> so it will give me the workstation no
<mathesis> hi ogra
<pscheie> cstextile1: right
<cstextile1> pscheie:Thanks for the same
<Laser_away> ogra: pingy pingy, pitti approved rasmol MIR
<ogra> Laser_away, pfft, already seeded ....
<ogra> :)
<Laser_away> lol
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20070216/
<ogra> i only managed to get 88M ob the addon CD yet
<ogra> *on
<ogra> if i get to 200 i'm good :)
<ogra> (average between the arches)
<cbx33> ping ogra ogra_
<Laser_away> ogra: will the 1st CD get more?
<jbrefort> Laser_away, commited your patch with a few cosmetic changes
<Laser_away> jbrefort: cool, thanks
<Sigurd112> ahoi
<mathesis> hi
<mathesis> where is documentatio for lts.conf in edubuntu
<mathesis>   /usr/share/doc/
<Thrallie> #archlinux
<Thrallie> #archlinux
#edubuntu 2007-02-17
<kgoetz> oh. i just had ltsp-server-standalone fail to install nfs exports :/ or is that a function of build client? *tests*
<kgoetz> can access a repository from a browser, but not using ltsp-build-client :/ just my luck
<kgoetz> ah, its a function of l-b-c. sorry about noise
<eroniusmaximus> Hello
<eroniusmaximus> whats a reasonable amount of space to install Edubuntu?
<kgoetz> server?go with 5 gig+home space
<eroniusmaximus> just want to install it at home
<eroniusmaximus> dual boot
<eroniusmaximus> on laptop, so i havent that much space
<kgoetz> workstation mightr fit in 2 gig
<LaserJock> I would still got with 3-5GB
<kgoetz> &^^
<LaserJock> ~2GB is the required spects
<LaserJock> *specs
<eroniusmaximus> plus some Swapspace plus some NTFS space or something eh...
<eroniusmaximus> hm
<kgoetz> 2 gig is 'look dont touch' ;)
<eroniusmaximus> i was thinking i want enough to use bittorent to download DVDrips,
<eroniusmaximus> hm
<kgoetz> anyone had RPC issues with ltsp-server-standalone?
<kgoetz> i'm wondering if theres some package doing RPC stuff tahts not dependended on by teh package, but should be (left of because its in -base or -minimial etc)
<kgoetz> oh, fixed it. updated kernels, updated ssh keys, rebooted (i stuffed up reming the host), it works. something there fixed it
* kgoetz notices theres no way to halt an ltsp client without a mouse
<highvoltage> kgoetz: I've had RPC problems before
<highvoltage> kgoetz: but I could never figure out how to troubleshoot it properly
<highvoltage> kgoetz: you can halt a thin client with a keyboard, by pressing alt+printscreen+o at the same time
<kgoetz> thanks re halting. what an odd way to do it :)
<kgoetz> brb
<highvoltage> kgoetz: was this also by any chance the first time that server was booted up?
<highvoltage> kgoetz: I've also seen that once where it helped rebooting the server after first boot
<kgoetz> highvoltage: yes it was (after ltsp was installed)
* kgoetz tries to work out why he can log in if his password is 'xxx' but not something secure
<smile> how risky is it to install Ubuntu onto a laptop
<smile> my laptop
<LaserJock> depends on what you mean by "risky" and what laptop
<juliux> smile, no risk no fun;)
<LaserJock> I'm using it it right now on my toshiba to do pretty much everything
<kgoetz> ditto my compaq's
<lee___> do we really get cds
<lee___> for free
<lee___> hello
<kgoetz> from shipit yes
<kgoetz> and patience will get you everware
<lee___> now i've ordered for 5 ubuntu cd's will it be completely free
<kgoetz> if you ordred 6.06.1 lts
<lee___> yup
<lee___> is this the latest version of ubuntu?
<kgoetz> no. hte latest is 6.10
<lee___> is there any diffrence between the two? Can i use it to teach students in my school?
<kgoetz> imo 6.06 is better, but there is some nice stuff in the newer versoin. i think you'll find 606 is more stable at any reate
<lee___> will they charge me for shipment at my doorstep?
<kgoetz> on 606? not that i recall
<cbx33> kgoetz, what's better about 6.06 in your opinion?
<kgoetz> cbx33: LTS, stability (in a big way)
<kgoetz> plus a few gripes aobut edgy
<kgoetz> *few little
<cbx33> kgoetz, are those gripes going to be fixed in feisty?
<bimberi> lee___: nope, delivered to your address of choice at no cost to you :)
<kgoetz> cbx33: i dont know, but since one of them is 'using vim-tiny', the boot splash (still), starting stuff once gdm is up, lsb compliance, i doubt it.
<kgoetz> one/some
<cbx33> kgoetz, if they are bugs, i urge you to report them on Launchpad
<cbx33> so we can get them fixed
<kgoetz> cbx33: well i suspect they are features (or work in progress features), which is why i havent reported them as bugs. perhaps i should grab a feisty iso (bit late now FF is gone though)
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> but bug fixes are still possible
<kgoetz> daily-live?
<highvoltage> cbx33: have you ever heard of a kibibyte?
<cbx33> no highvoltage what's that?
<kgoetz> kilobyte using 1000 not 1024
<highvoltage> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibibyte
<highvoltage> I've never seen the term before, which I find strange
<cbx33> me neither
<kgoetz> you must have seen gibibyte though
<cbx33> hard to pronounce fast too
<cbx33> kgoetz, I've never seen it
<kgoetz> like ubuntu ;)
<kgoetz> cbx33: oh
<highvoltage> I haven't seen gibibyte either
<cbx33> and I'm a netowrk manager
<cbx33> i would hope to hav seen it
<highvoltage> perhaps I just read to fast and read it as gigabyte and megabyte
<highvoltage> cbx33: I'm going to ask a whole bunch of network admins next week :)
<kgoetz> cbx33: `ifconfig |grep RX`
<kgoetz> notice MiB and KiB
<cbx33> highvoltage, blog about it :p
<cbx33> kgoetz, now I have seen that before
<kgoetz> cbx33: its the short hand
<cbx33> but never knew what it really meant,
* kgoetz tries to remember other commands
<kgoetz> df -H (iirc)
<cbx33> indeed
* cbx33 thinks he needs to file a bug against df
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> it should use
<cbx33> GB and GiB
<cbx33> or soemthing like that
<cbx33> not just G for both
<kgoetz> true, but you have to 'opt in' to using the GiB switch
<cbx33> true but
<cbx33> h and H are very similar
<kgoetz> true. if it makes you happy use --si insted of -H :P
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> hey juliux
<juliux> hi cbx33
<Rondom> kgoetz: 1 kibibyte is 1024 bytes not 1000 iirc, the bi means binary or something
<kgoetz> are you sure? hm.
<kgoetz> your right
* kgoetz hm. again
<cbx33> heh
<pirast> hi
<pirast> we are now testing edubuntu in essen
<pirast> and juliux server is overloaded :-)
* Kamping_Kaiser got ltsp gateway workign (netbooting the gateway)
<Kamping_Kaiser> yay for masochism
<Kamping_Kaiser> now to make it useful...
<cbx33> hehe
<edubuntugirl> Kamping_Kaiser: watch it ;)
<smile> I have problem with installation, please help
<Kamping_Kaiser> tomorrows problem. 1am is my time to sleep ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> night all. good luck smile
<highvoltage> goodnight Kamping_Kaiser
<smile> which country are you in
<smile> The resizing of the partition doesnt work
<jbrefort> smile, a M$Win partition?
<dockane> hi.. maybe my question is a bit offtopic, anyway: i am looking for some sort of e-learning software which enables a pupil and a teacher to chat together mathematical issues with some functions for drawing primitives like triangles, circles and x/y(/z) graphs. the teachers os is ubuntu, the pupils probably windows
<ace> ping ogra
<Shodane> hello
<Shodane> does edubuntu include xfce?
<highvoltage> Shodane: not by default, but you can install the xfce interface from the archives
<Shodane> ok...
<Shodane> do you know if there's software included to manage users (ie courses, classes, students...)?
<highvoltage> there's schooltool, although it's still under heavy developmetn
<Shodane> does it work?
<Shodane> that's a calendar...
<stgraber> I'm doing some testing on how to smoothly introduce people to Edubuntu (with LTSP). The idea is to be able to connected to the Edubuntu terminal server with the less software and settings needed and that directly from Windows
<highvoltage> stgraber: like a Windows client for LTSP?
<stgraber> The best would be to use a RDP server on Ubuntu (I heard of xrdp) but it's not easy to connect it to the XDMCP server
<stgraber> yes
<highvoltage> cool
<ogra> there is no xdmcp running on edubuntu
<stgraber> but I'm currently looking on the best way to do that
<highvoltage> you could probably also do it with Putty and a X server for Windows
<ogra> right
<ogra> thats the right way
<highvoltage> which way, ogra?
<ogra> yours
<highvoltage> cool :)
<ogra> putty and Xserver
<stgraber> Actually I didn't find any really free and easy to use X server for windows
<ogra> Xorg has none ?
<stgraber> there is cygwin but it's not what I call "easy"
<ogra> well
<highvoltage> a friend of mine installed it on his windows machine last week, and he says it was quite easy
* highvoltage tries to find him on jabber
<stgraber> My other idea is to try this NoMachine stuff, I heard that the video quality is quite good and it should be easy to install on the server (with sound working)
<highvoltage> the good thing about that is that it would be fast over slow connections. but the big downside is, you have to install extra software on the server for that to work.
<stgraber> my other problem is that it would be really better to have a standalone software which doesn't need any kind of Administrator right to be launched as the admin are quite paranoiac here ...
<stgraber> Oh, I just found a free X server for windows, http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/
<highvoltage> hmmm... I wonder if local devices will work if you install dbus for windows
<highvoltage> it's probably a far stretch :)
* stgraber would be happy if display and sound works :)
<cbx33> stgraber, cygwin is pretty easy ;)
<cbx33> check out my blog i did it the other day in under an hour...and I was trying out colinux too
<jamie> Can any one help me. I am trying to install an older kernel on ltsp as the latest one on edgy does not seem to support the sound balster module on the sff very well. How do I do this please?
<Burgundavia> hmm, no cbx33
<jamie> Can any one help me. I am trying to install an older kernel on ltsp as the latest one on edgy does not seem to support the sound balster module on the sff very well. How do I do this please
#edubuntu 2007-02-18
<kgoetz> does the ltsp implimentation in 6.06.1 lts support swap for the clients?
<crazy_bus> I'm trying to help my next door neighbour lear long multipication.  Is there a program to help them?
<juliux> ogra, morning
<juliux> did anybody tested feisty herd4?
<juliux> we cannt log in here on the clients
<kgoetz> i was wondering if the reason(Your machine is being used by terminal servers to verify users via NFS (Network File System), NIS, or some other method.) given here (http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Shadow-Password-HOWTO-2.html#ss2.1) was why the clients on the ltsp setups dont use shadow passwords?
<juliux> pisi_de, ys76 we should open an extra test channel;)
<ogra> kgoetz, dapper ltsp supports nbd swap, but you need to set up an nbdserver manually
<kgoetz> ogra: is that from source manual, or custom config manual?
<ogra> kgoetz, there are no passwords on thin clients at all, no account is enabled by default
<juliux> hey ogra
<ogra> he juliux
<kgoetz> i made an account in my chroot for testing purposes
<ogra> did you check .xsession-errors ?
<ogra> kgoetz, right, but a normal user who doesnt debug, test or tweak the client chroot will never do that
<kgoetz> sure.
<juliux> ogra, yes, it was an sshkey problem, after running ltsp-update-sshkeys 5 times it was working
<kgoetz> i'm not saying it should :)
<ogra> juliux, 5 times ?
<juliux> ogra, yes
<ogra> kgoetz, well, it could :)
<kgoetz> ok, thanks ogra :)
<ogra> the client system is not different to the server one ... it can do everything the server can as well
<ogra> its just a matter of package configuration
<kgoetz> right then. i'll have a bit more of a poke
<crazy_bus> I'm trying to help my next door neighbour lear long multipication.  Is there a program to help them?
<ogra> Laser_away would know if he werent away :)
<crazy_bus> What time is he not usually away?
<ogra> he's in US Pacific time i think ... or near that
<juliux> ogra, how can i start the thinclient manager on herd4??
<ogra> should be in the control center
<ogra> but there is still a static testuserlist switched on, you wont see much
<ogra> tcm needs some love before release
<juliux> ogra, http://www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/7625/
<ogra> sudo
<ogra> seems cbx33 checks for UID 0 to late
<juliux> ogra, ok
<juliux> ogra, i will collect bugs;)
<ogra> note that it will also throw a lot of px help output to the console ...
<juliux> ogra, i see
<ogra> thats a known drawback of the static userlist stuff ... not a bug
<juliux> ogra, and in the herd4 package is the config from cbx33 so you see user which are not there
<ogra> "<ogra> but there is still a static testuserlist switched on, you wont see much"
<juliux> ogra, sorry
<ogra> :)
<ogra> brb
<juliux> is there a way to playaround with tcm?
<Burgundavia> edubuntugirl: tell cbx33 that I vant to suck his blood..er..I mean I want his chapter
<edubuntugirl> Righto, Burgundavia!
#edubuntu 2008-02-11
<stgraber> ogra: italc 1.0.6 released with the fixes for almost all of the reported bugs, I have an updated package ready for testing here : http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/italc/
<stgraber> ogra: I plan to have the final one ready for upload on Tuesday afternoon/evening
<mejymejy> i am trying a gutsy install on an amd64 with an nvidia fx 5200 and getting a freeze up after initial bootup... i think it is the vcard
<mejymejy> ive seen some posts that describe similar problems
<mejymejy> ive tried multiple boot options
<mejymejy> nothing seems to be working
<achandrashekar> hello. I need some assistance with how to configure two ltsp servers using ldap as the primary authentication method installed on one of the two servers.
<achandrashekar> Is there a clear how to to accomplish this as I suspect I will have over 50 clients.
<kgoetz> no, not really. there is a guide on setting up ldap on the ubuntu wiki
<achandrashekar> i see. I need a methodology to support over 60 users. I have been searching now for over a day and a half for sites. Is the methodology the best way to go about supporting that many clients besides pumping a huge amount of ram in just one box.
<kgoetz> setting up ldap is a bit of a chore if your not used to it, otherwise the idea seems sane enough
<achandrashekar> i see. I got the basic jist that the second server should authenticate its passwords with the first server (likely using the ldap client). However, Im not exactly sure if all I need is just the ltsp server installed. Im only guessing that the client once booting up decides which server to connect to. The architecture is a bit confusing to me.
<kgoetz> i'm at work, so i'm not sure i have time to sit down and talk you through it :(
<achandrashekar> no problem. I will wait and see and see what someone comes up with.
<johnny> hi, i see something that should perhaps be mentioned in the edubuntu docs
<johnny> in the section where it talks about syncronizing desktop files
<johnny> Replication of desktop profiles
<johnny> maybe it should mention that they can also be served over http and ldap
<johnny> so it doesn't have to be maintained across all
<JonathanFerguson> Does anyone currently 'ere know how to setup Quagga?
<pvh_sa|wrk> hi there... i'm trying to set up ltsp with an ubuntu server and a FreeBSD dhcp server
<pvh_sa|wrk> i manage to get the client to download pxeboot.0 and boot up, but it doesn't mount the root filesystem... in fact, it doesn't talk to the ubuntu server at all, even though i have option root-path set in the DHCP to point it at the ubuntu server
<pvh_sa|wrk> any hints?? i think i'm not setting enough or not setting the right stuff in dhcp config
<pvh_sa|wrk> ah! got it working with next-server!
<stgraber> ogra: ping
<RoboCop> when will the next version of *buntu going to release ?
<laga> ogra: ping
<laga> ogra_cmpc: ping
 * laga wonders where ogra has gone
<pem725> how do I update different images such as amd64 and i386 on my edubuntu 7.10 install?  When I issue ltsp-update-images, I only get amd64 rebuilt
<suprememind> hello
<suprememind> i have a problem with thin clients
<suprememind> somebody can help me pls?
<suprememind> there's somebody alive?
<laga> ask a question and somebody might have an answer
<suprememind> ok, sometimes thin clients closes session unexpectedly
<suprememind> and sometimes mouse doesn't work, then i reboot and works ok again
<suprememind> hmm?
<suprememind> ?
<suprememind> ok, i assume nobody can help me with a possible solution
<suprememind> thanks anyway
<suprememind> hola?
<suprememind> la la la
<alumno10> help
<suprememind> mmm
<alumno10> hi
<alumno10> sometimes session closes unexpectedly in thin clients
<alumno10> does somebody know why? i read logs but it doesn't help much :/.
<laga> alumno10: yes, we saw it. please be patient
<alumno10> ok
<alumno10> laga, are you a bot?
<laga> no
<laga> are you?
<alumno10> yes
<alumno10> actually no
<alumno10> but, do you had experienced some problem like mine (ocassionaly session closing in thin clients)
<laga> no, i don't use edubuntu
<alumno10> and you are in edubuntu channel because..
<laga> because i can!
<alumno10> mmm i though u can help me
<alumno10> *could
<laga> someone in here probably can, but it's not me and not everyone is here right now
<alumno10> mmm
<TelnetManta> man this chan has really gone down hill.
<johnny> how so?
<johnny> ogra are you about?
<johnny> i wanted to let you know the status of sabayon with gnome 2.21
<johnny> it will NOT work
<johnny> gnome-settings-daemon doesn't work inside an xnest atm
<johnny> even as of 2.21.91
<johnny> unless there's something else that needs t be bumped..
<johnny> it seems to fail on the keyboard stuff
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: ping
<ogra_cmpc> stgraber, hey
<ogra_cmpc> i didnt get hold of \sh yet, sorry
<johnny> ogra i said some things about sabayon previously
<johnny> did you see that?
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: not needed
<johnny>  atm it seems like it will only work on Xephyr
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: we found the bug during the weekend + tons of other (basically all the bugs opened on SF.net are now closed)
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: I also have updated some UI patches and included the LTSP scripts, package is now building for feisty,gutsy,hardy on amd64 and i386
<ogra_cmpc> johnny, surely on my other machine :) i wasnt near my regular desktop today
<johnny> ?
<johnny> oh
<johnny> yeah
<johnny> i was hoping to do Xephyr after this release, but i don't know if gnome-settings-daemons bugs will be fixed in time
<ogra_cmpc> 'do Xephyr' ?
<johnny> federico won't have time to hack on sabayon for two weeks
<johnny> add Xephyr as an option
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: the package should be good as it's, I'll do some more testing tomorrow at school. But last I tried everything was working (demo mode included)
<ogra_cmpc> stgraber, cool, i'll upload it tomorrow (sme ltsp stuff to do tonght, i'll do an upload orgy tomorrow then)
<ogra_cmpc> johnny, didnt you just say Xephyr is the only thing it runs on ?
<ogra_cmpc> so whats required to make it work then ?
<ogra_cmpc> (beyond adding a dependency to teh package)
<johnny> well, it's possible that the bug could be fixed in gnome-settings-daemon
<johnny> but Xephyr opens up a smaller screen and sabayon has no option to set the resolution of the session
<ogra_cmpc> i thought Xephyr was supposed to be xnest compatible ...
<ogra_cmpc> sabayon worked with that before
 * ogra_cmpc doesnt understand how that affects g-s-d
<johnny> try to run it
<ogra_cmpc> i'm on a classmatepc, far from any hw that could even start sabayon additionally to xchat
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<johnny> ogra_cmpc, gnome-settings-daemon crashes when loading the a11y keyboard
<johnny> but only under xnest
<ogra_cmpc> ah
<ogra_cmpc> is that filed?
<johnny> well i just reproduced it
<johnny> on hardy
<johnny> as of yesterday
<johnny> and i wanted to talk matias
<johnny> cuz he mentioned something about it
<johnny> as in.. known problem on a bug that already exists
<ogra_cmpc> i'll test it tomorrow morning in the office
<johnny> if we switched to Xephyr we'd have to request a free break i think
#edubuntu 2008-02-12
<achandrashekar> hello, i need some assistance with an installation of edubuntu in standalone mode. It appears my system does not have the pxelinux.0 file a noted in dhcpd.conf and I dont know how to get it install it. Can someone help out?
<achandrashekar> hello, i need some assistance with an installation of edubuntu in standalone mode. It appears my system does not have the pxelinux.0 file a noted in dhcpd.conf and I dont know how to get it install it. Can someone help out?
<pvh_sa|wrk> has anyone here ever run edubuntu as "zeroclient" setup? i.e. 1 server, 2 monitors, 2 keyboards, 2 mice, and 2 independent login sessions?
<cooli1> hi anyone here tried to download the training pdf's from the wiki
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc, RichEd: Just did some additional testing of iTalc, everything seems to work even using some Windows computers
<stgraber> I also did some test with low resolution screen as client (800x600 and 640x480), it works correctly, the only problem being that the student will have to scroll the screen if the teacher's resolution is higher than his
 * RichEd brings out the garlic, the silver bullets and the wooden cross
<laga> ogra: ping
<laga> ogra_cmpc: ping
<RichEd> stgraber: sound good ... a scroll or pan is okay ... they will have to do that for some of their local apps anyway
<stgraber> right, and resizing the picture on the fly takes way too much CPU usage
<stgraber> best would be that the teacher think to lower his own resolution before starting the demo
<RichEd> stgraber: that would make sense actually ... the teacher should really demo it in the same mode that the student would experience
<RichEd> besides, the rest of the world has really moved on from the 800x600 screen res that was more or less okay in the days of DOS, so if intel want to go with 800x480 .... they must expect a few little compromises
<stgraber> RichEd: I gave italc a try at 640x480, the teacher UI seems to be usable. The only problem is that you won't have much space for the classroom screen preview
<stgraber> but the demo on and demo off buttons are accessible, so it's fine to start a demo mode at low resolution
<stgraber> RichEd: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/italc/screenshots/
<RichEd> stgraber: will check it out now
<stgraber> so as long as the teacher is using the sidebar to select the clients and not the live preview, everything should work fine even at 640x480
<achandrashekar> hello when configuring dhcp failover/load balancing for ltsp, i entered the failover parameters. DHCP server fails to start. any ideas?
<johnny> bad config?
<pvh_sa|wrk> my LTSP client gets the ubuntu login screen - then i login and all i get is a black screen - any hints on how to debug this?
<stgraber> ogra, ogra_cmpc: around ?
<laga> stgraber: i wonder where he's gone
<Joris_> ogra/ogra_cmpc: you comming to fosdem next week by any chance?
<Joris_> or anybody else here :)
<ogra> stgraber, pong
<ogra> stgraber, http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/italc/source/ is that the package i can upload ?
<stgraber> ogra: yep
<ogra> ok, uploading :)
<stgraber> cool
<ogra> et voila :)
<stgraber> ogra: What about the MIR, can that be done before Thursday or will be done afterward and need a FF exception or something similar ?
<laga> yay, he's back :)
<ogra> stgraber, we should get the MIR ready asap, i think we can get it through even after FF
<laga> ogra: looked at the patches? :)
<belutz> ogra, hi :D
<joakim1> harrharr
<fannagoganna> hi, wondering if there's a bluish edubuntu background (in addition to the yellowish one).
<juckum> http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/drinks/A273/
<juckum> :D
<Cheerio> install standard boot IPL to memory stick
<Cheerio> o sorry
<achandrashekar> hello. I believe i have my configuration correct for dhcp failover/load balancing for my ltsp clients on the master. I tried just to test with the master. Is it absolutely necessary that I have the slave running or configured? Any time i put in the failover parameter in /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf the clients cannot boot or find the pxelinux.0. However, when taking it out, it works fine.
<achandrashekar> anybody?
<achandrashekar> its been silent in here for 3 days now...all 31 users are asleep?
<achandrashekar> :(
<ogra> achandrashekar, feature freeze tomorrow, everyone is extremely busy
<ogra> laga, i added your mythbuntu plugin as is for now, but in the debian dir under extra-plugins, so we dont need to fiddle with upstream for hardy ;) and chanegs can still go in
<achandrashekar> i see. Okay....I understand. Im desperate for some help on this and have been across 3 channels with no answers. :(
<ogra> achandrashekar, yes, i saw you in #ltsp :)
<ogra> dtrask once wrote a very detailed wikipage on the ubuntu wiki
<achandrashekar> my fear is that maybe the wiki instructions dont work for 7.10
<ogra> (dont ask me for the name though)
<achandrashekar> i used the instructions
<achandrashekar> :)
<achandrashekar> and just dealt with the master.
<ogra> well, thast all i can point to atm
<achandrashekar> okay... i also read the "very similar" version fro k12ltsp
<ogra> your best hope is that moquist is bored/has spare time or dtrask comes by
<achandrashekar> all i need is a simple answer of " hey you need both servers to be up" before you go testing. I just have the master up
<achandrashekar> but...i will go ahead and just do it anyways and see what happens.
<achandrashekar> i appreciate the response :)
<achandrashekar> thnx
<laga> ogra: ping :)
<laga> ogra: thanks for fixing those bugs
<laga> ogra: any hope for the initramfs patch? it's OK if it doesn't go in, i can put it in my own package
<laga> ogra: any hope for the initramfs patch? it's OK if it doesn't go in, i can put it in my own package
<ogra> ergh, i've missed that one
<ogra> do you have the bug number handy ?
<laga> ogra: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/190016
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 190016 in ltsp "[patch] Mythbuntu: add aufs support and various other options to initramfs" [Wishlist,New]
<ogra> thanks
<laga> ogra: there's two small issues with this: 1) the WOL initramfs hook will generate warnings if etherwake is not installed 2.) the path for the overlay is /opt/ltsp/overlay/ and ltsp-update-kernel thinks its a real chrooted install. should just change that path :)
<ogra> yeah, just looking at it
<ogra> i'd actually prefer to not patch ltsp_nbd itself ... i'll think about something we can do from the plugin ...
<laga> ogra: we can put it in the mythbuntu-diskless-client meta package
<ogra> yeah, that sounds like it makes sense
<ogra> does mythbuntu-diskless-client depend on ltsp-client ?
<ogra> hrm, seems its not out of new yet
<laga> ogra: ltsp-client-core.
<laga> ogra: i don't think ltsp-client is needed on fat clients
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> core has the ltsp initramfs stuff ...
<laga> yup
<laga> ogra: do you think that's a problem? it's not
<laga> i already ship a config file there: conf.d/mythbuntu
<laga> which will override conf.d/ltsp
<ogra> we need to do it through the initramfs config then ... iirc configs placed in /etc/initramfs/conf.d override the ones in /usr
<laga> problem solved :)
<laga> that's the plan at least. %)
<ogra> well, it wont *just override*
<ogra> it needs to eb in the right place else you cant predict which one applies :)
<ogra> but yes essentially thats the right approach
<laga> you can predict which one applies IMHO. if you look at init, you can see it's using simple shell magic to source the config files
<laga> which will be in alphabetical order
<ogra> right, but you cant rely that nobody changes the name :)
<laga> agreed.
<ogra> so using the override dirs is better
<ogra> thats actually their purpose
<ogra> and i thik youre the first one to use it :)
<laga> yay :)
<laga> i kinda fell in love with LTSP even though i don't use it as X terminal :)
<ogra> hmm, we should probably just start to use sequence nubers for the filenames ...
<ogra> instead of making it more complicated
<laga> ogra: yes, i was going to suggested that
<laga> (but then i forgot about it)
<ogra> well, thats somethng debian should agree on as well then, that needs discussion
<ogra> nothing we can fix now
<laga> right
<laga> ok, i'll put that stuff in my own package then. what about the ticket? close it, submit it to upstream..?
<ogra> the bug you mean ?
<laga> yup
<ogra> mark it invalid or fix released if your included the code in your package
<ogra> we need to test that stuff anyway and i dont expect it to work without rough edges :)
 * ogra takes a break and then moves on to ldm packaging 
<laga> aww, poor code. :) i don't expect it to work w/o rough edges either. i'll bug you again next cycle :)
 * ogra wonders if fixing 13 bugs in one upload gains you luck or misfortune :)
<laga> ogra: happy users if anything
<ogra> heh, hopefully
<crimsun> from my experience, both.
<crimsun> it's pseudorandom which outweighs the other.
<stgraber> ogra: ouch, 13bugs closed with only one upload, impressive :)
<lns> Anyone in here using Koolu thin clients with Gutsy?
<theunixgeek> I think Edubuntu should be renamed to Ubuntu Education Edition
<ogra_cmpc> theunixgeek, thats exsactly waht we will do over 6the next releases
<theunixgeek> ogra_cmpc: really? so Edubuntu 8.04 will really be Ubuntu Educational Edition 8.04?
<ogra_cmpc> no
<ogra_cmpc> 8.04 will be edubuntu (ubuntu educational edition)
<ogra_cmpc> 8.10 will be ubuntu educational edition (edubuntu)
<theunixgeek> ogra_cmpc: where can I get info on 8.10?
<ogra_cmpc> nowhere yet
<ogra_cmpc> new releases are defined during the ubuntu conference shortly after a relese
<ogra_cmpc> the next will be at the beginning of may ...
#edubuntu 2008-02-13
<lns> ogra_cmpc, haven't you done work with Koolu TCs before?
<ari_stress> morning
<TelnetManta> evening
<Brenwil> hi all
<Brenwil> blank
<lanhelp> hello
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> hi
<lanhelp> I have a doubt about thin clients bootup
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> what happened?
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> are u using edubuntu?
<lanhelp> thin clients boots properly, works great
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> thats a good start hehe
<lanhelp> but its takes 2 minutes between kernel loading and the start of the boot process
<lanhelp> sticks on .................Done.
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> oh ok
<lanhelp> seems that nothing happens during this time
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> tell me exactly, what does it say before the .......
<lanhelp> 1. kernel loads faster
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> is it TFTP.................?
<lanhelp> all the dots ...................................
<lanhelp> yes
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> its your network
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> how many clients do you have?
<lanhelp> 5
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> which type of network card is in the server?
<lanhelp> the kernel tftp download is very fast
<lanhelp> 2 seconds to show all the dots
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> ah
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> oh ok
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> thats different
<lanhelp> the problem is after the tftp
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> so its actually boot
<lanhelp> yes
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> hmmmm, what are your clients?
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> old pcs?
<lanhelp> all the clients have this behaviour
<ogra> edit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and remove "quiet" and "splash" that will give you more output than dots ;)
<lanhelp> pentium 4
<lanhelp> 256mb of ram
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> yeah i think ogra can help you more with this than me
<lanhelp> after the 2 minutes , it begins to show text output on the screen and its very fast to bring LDM
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> after you do what ogra says with that file tell us the output
<lanhelp> I think something is hanging the initial boot proccess
<lanhelp> ok, I will do that know
<lanhelp> thanks!
<lanhelp> removing quiet and splash doesnt show me nothing during the pause
<lanhelp> i got a new problem!
<lanhelp> ldm says now that the ws inst authorized to connect
<lanhelp> I do the command ltsp-update-sshkeys
<lanhelp> and workstations stopped
<lanhelp> about the hanging problem, the keyboard doesnt work, numlock or any light change
<lanhelp> during the 2 minutes
<lanhelp> it really freezes
<lanhelp> wich is the next step after tftp download? kernel execution?
<ogra> the dots you see if quiet is switched on are actually the decompression process of the kernel
<lanhelp> yes
<lanhelp> the ws hangs, the keyboard hangs, after 2 minutes text output from bootup process appears and keyboard is functional again
<lanhelp> the system is working very good after that
<lanhelp> in some ws, net shows one line, like RHINE LINK ON
<lanhelp> after ......Done.
<lanhelp> others not
<lanhelp> but all ws hangs
<ogra> is the switch you have sitting between server and clients managed ?
<lanhelp> no is passive
<lanhelp> i can try to connect a croosover directly between server and one client to see
<lanhelp> with 7.04 i got no problem here
<ogra> was the server that has the prob upgraded or freshly installed ?
<lanhelp> freshly
<lanhelp> Im very excited about ltsp in gutsy
<lanhelp> very reliable
<lanhelp> its a transport company in brazil
<lanhelp> we have 5 stations at present time
<ogra> well, it has its bugs .... we changed a lot of stuff in gutsy that didnt go without damage ... hardy will improve a lot since we didnt do any feature development at all this time ... only bugfixing
<das-t> ogra: are you a developer? we noticed that some clients that had no problem with 7.04 only boot into a resolution of 800 with 7.10 which is why we will skipp the latest release
<das-t> i am just about to test this over here @ my end
<lanhelp> I have 3 ltsp servers working, Im planing
<lanhelp> to switch to hardy on may
<lanhelp> im not a dev (yet!)
<lanhelp> I got the 800x600 prob here
<lanhelp> in some stations
<lanhelp> but its solved now
<lanhelp> all working under gutsy
<lanhelp> the sound system on 7.10 is very good
<das-t> with the latest updates? did you get clients running that way that did not work at the beginning of release 7.10?
<lanhelp> yes
<lanhelp> one station
<lanhelp> with nvidia riva tnt card
<das-t> i heard we have several boxes with this problem, though the installation might not be absolutely up to date as they are located in tansania with a very shaky internet connection ... to say the leaset.
<das-t> i am from linux4afrika.de
<RichEd-1> ogra ? you around
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> i just installed 7.10, i get "this workstation isn't authorized to connect to server", is this normal? anyone know which file to put allowed hosts in or something like that?
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> ok im running ltsp-update-image, might work:)
<das-t> gaz_hayes_the_2n: you found it, you need to update the image if an ip address changes.
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> ah, yeah, it works now hehe
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> wow this is much better than k12ltsp which is what i was using before
<gaz_hayes_the_2n> at least this has a proper implimentation of synaptic
<highvoltage> RichEd, ogra: ping
<RichEd> highvoltage:pong
<highvoltage> RichEd: I think it would be useful if we joined https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-derivatives/2008-February/000081.html meeting
<highvoltage> RichEd: even though edubuntu wouldn't strictly be a standalone installation, I think many of the common issues (artwork, etc) would still be applicable
<alkisg> Hi guys! On Edubuntu Gutsy 7.10 my clients take a long time to logon (minutes). I've read on the lists that it may be a DNS server fault. Question: why do I need a DNS server? My router is on another subnet, the LTSP server has access to it, but not the clients. Do I have to install a DNS server to my LTSP server? Can I work around it with option root-path  "192.168.0.254:/opt/ltsp/i386"; in lts.conf?
<alkisg> (router = existing DNS server)
<RichEd> === edubuntu/education meeting in #ubuntu-meeting = 25 mins ===
<RichEd> === edubuntu/education meeting in #ubuntu-meeting = 3 mins ===
<Kamping_Kaiser> grr.
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, will it be long?
 * stgraber waves
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: not too sure ... prolly not
<RichEd> just found out that the fridge puts the meeting an hour later than usual :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> :/ DST?
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: something funny somewhere
<RichEd> === edubuntu/education meeting in #ubuntu-meeting = delayed for an hour ===
<RichEd> sorry guys ... the fridge schedule was incorrect
<Kamping_Kaiser> these things happen
<RichEd> i think we should stick to the advertised time
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: if you need the sleep, we'll understand if you are not around :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, i'm about to head off, its been a long day :)
 * RichEd excuses Kamping_Kaiser from active duty for the extended day
 * Kamping_Kaiser switches to inactive duty
<RichEd> !seen ogra
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen ogra - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<RichEd> highvoltage: what's happened to edubuntugirl ?
<highvoltage> she's misbehaving again
 * highvoltage should pay more attention to her
<highvoltage> actually, I think I should just install a newer version of her software
<highvoltage> should go quickly, I'll do it tonight!
<RichEd> highvoltage: well that's what happens when you name a bot as a her ... moody, misbehaving, demands attention
<highvoltage> RichEd: ssssh, careful!
<RichEd> === edubuntu/education meeting in #ubuntu-meeting = 2 mins ===
<RichEd> will probably be a short meeting ... ogra does not seem to be available today
<stgraber> RichEd, ogra: Sorry guys, I had managed to have the 12:00-13:00 hour free for the IRC meeting but not 13:00-14:00 :(
<RichEd> stgraber: no problem ... ogra gave us the good news <ogra> italc is uploaded
<RichEd> and i gave thanks to you for the work on that
<stgraber> still some bugs to fix though, it seems that all crashes aren't fixed yet. Anyway, the goal was to have it uploaded before FF and with a reasonable stability
<stgraber> which I tink we have
<stgraber> now we have some months to fix the remaining bugs
<random0ne> greetings
<random0ne> has anyone encountered a policy authorizing or encouraging the use of open source licensing?  i am writing a proposal for our technology department
<pygi> random0ne, what do you mean? Our government for example issued some papers that encourage usage of open source products
<random0ne> i am tired of asking for approval to use open source licenses
<random0ne> pygi: i want to submit a policy recommendation that makes osi licenses the norm and proprietary the exception
<random0ne> pygi: any links you have would be greatly appriciated
<pygi> random0ne, even If I had them, they're not in english
<random0ne> pygi: heh.  english is the only language i'm any good in :(
<pygi> random0ne, however ... I'd be happy to advise you when you have something ready? :)
<random0ne> pygi: excellent
<pygi> random0ne, are you registered at freenode?
<pygi> I can pm you my mail
<random0ne> my nick is registered, if that is what you mean.
<pygi> random0ne, ok, you got pm =)
<pygi> hey LaserJock folk :)
<random0ne> i'm surprised i can't find any examples of policiies
<pygi> random0ne, just write something, and we'll try to come up with something sane :)
<random0ne> pygi: heh
<LaserJock> hi pygi
<random0ne> found something! http://www.utexas.edu/vp/it/policies/opensource.php
<fredsua> Hi there.  I am a newbie to the linus system.  I was in the process of intalling edubuntu on my laptop and it seems to freeze up.
<fredsua> I have a 930Mhz Pentium 3, 10G HD and 256RAM
<fredsua> Right now it is frozen in the "installing system" at 15%
<fredsua> Help!
<fredsua> Can anyone help?
<fredsua> help!!!
<laga> fredsua: calm down.
<laga> fredsua: if someone has an answer/hint, they'll let you know. not everyone in here is online all the time
<laga> fredsua: maybe it just needs a while?
<fredsua> unfortunately its been like this for more than 15 minutes
<random0ne> fredsua: you could try a different installer.  many laptops have specialized hardware and there are some differences in the kernels used by the different installers
<random0ne> fredsua: have you googled edubuntu OR ubuntu YOURLAPTOPMODEL?
<fredsua> I was just googleing this subject.
<fredsua> It turns out that I need to download Ubuntu Alternate and install it
<random0ne> fredsua: nicely done
<fredsua> then run edubuntu-desktop
<fredsua> I wonder why edubuntu doesn't install right?
<random0ne> fredsua: specialized laptop hardware
<stgraber> fredsua: the live environment (graphic install) requires at least 300MB of RAM in order to work correctly
<stgraber> fredsua: so you indeed need the alternate installer which is text based and works fine with low amount of RAM
<stgraber> fredsua: the desktop once installed will work correctly with your 256MB, the RAM amount is only a problem during the installation
<fredsua> I see, thanks for the info.  As a newbie, this information is readily available in the Ubuntu website and it is a bit frustrating some times.
<fredsua> I meant to say, is not readily available.  :-)
<johnny> you could be the first to add it :)
<Goosemoose> When is edubuntu releasing a hardy version?
<LaserJock> Goosemoose: same day as everybody else :-)
<LaserJock> Goosemoose: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule for the details
<Goosemoose> ok, im looking at one of the features in it and trying to figure out if i should postpone my 200 computer rollout
<stgraber> Goosemoose: which one ?
<Goosemoose> likewise
<Goosemoose> hey stgraber
<Goosemoose> i want the active directory login to work
<Goosemoose> If it will work with the preseed I have right now with edubuntu then I can do that
<Goosemoose> I know dendrobates says he updated a new build of it
<Goosemoose> oh man, in april
<Goosemoose> would definitely rather do this now
<Goosemoose> anyone using likewise?
<Goosemoose> http://www.likewisesoftware.com/products/likewise_open/
#edubuntu 2008-02-14
<Picachoo> where can i get quality top famouse games that work in linux? or can be run fine with wine?
<Kamping_Kaiser> depends what you mean by 'famous' and 'quality'
<Picachoo> most played
<Kamping_Kaiser> eg quake3?
<Kamping_Kaiser> tbh, i think that your question is probably better asked in #ubuntu
<Picachoo> ok
<neil_d> Hi I was wondering about using an ltsp server to send faxes, is there a howto etc on this ?
<juliux> morning
<lanhelp> hello!
<lanhelp> im using ubuntu ltsp since 7.04. After installed 7.10, thin clients doesnt display local hard disk mount icon, only floppy and cdrom, its a 7.10 known issue?
<johnny> yes
<johnny> oh
<johnny> i don't know
<johnny> sorry read it wrong
<johnny> check bugs i guess..
<ffm> what can we use to manage a lab of ubuntu machines, all are local  booting.
<ogra> ffm, try italc
<ffm> ogra: will look into
<lns> Does anyone know where I can get the xorg AMD/geode driver v2.7.7.6 ?
<lns> (for gutsy)
<johnny> if it's not in the repos, then you prolly have to build it yourself
<johnny> or submit a bug
<Goosemoose> how do you guys lock down the machines so students dont screw stuff up?
<johnny> i use sabayon for part of that
<johnny> it's imperfect atm tho
<johnny> part of it will require policykit i'm sure
<pygi> submit patches :p
<johnny> don't tell me that
<johnny> i have svn access
<pygi> oh :P
<johnny> or :p me
 * pygi hides then :P
<johnny> i hate that
<pygi> apologies :)
<johnny> i'm working on it
<johnny> problem after problem :)
<johnny> now i'm having problems making it work in xnest
<johnny> dueto gnome-settings-daemon
<johnny> in 2.21
<johnny> and also gvfs..
<pygi> johnny, I just assume when people say something is wrong, they havent tried to help :)
<johnny> trying to help :)
<johnny> spent way too long figuring things out so far
<pygi> that's good :)
<johnny> like autotools
<pygi> heh, autotools
<Goosemoose> johnny, if you're using sabayon, is there some way to push that in a preseed installation?
<pygi> dont mention it :p
<pygi> bad bad bad :P
<johnny> not the profiles
<johnny> afaik
<johnny> or wait.. sorry.. i don't know enough about preseed
<johnny> to verify that
<johnny> i do know they can be pulled via http
<johnny> or ldap (supposably)
<johnny> if it lets you put random files on the file system , then sure
<Goosemoose> hmm
<Goosemoose> it does
<LaserJock> ogra: will we have the addon cd ready for Alpha5?
<Goosemoose> so the security settings just get saved to a file?
<johnny> it's basic lockdown for the desktop session
<johnny> it's not very intensive atm
<Goosemoose> is there something more?
<johnny> it depends on what you're trying to lock down
<johnny> it'd be better to get sabayon/pessulus working together
<johnny> and better
<Goosemoose> ok
<Goosemoose> ill have to check those out then
<Goosemoose> 200 computers in a high school
<Goosemoose> very mischevious
<lns> So I tried the new amd geode xorg 2.7.7.6 drivers... the resolution on my thin clients still don't get detected at 1024x768 :( (Gutsy) any ideas?
<lns> it's getting detected at 16bit color now (instead of 16 colors..ugh) but the resolution still isn't allowing me to go above 800x600.
<laga_> lns: ask the xorg people?
<lns> laga_, nope - i didn't know it went above an ltsp/video driver detection issue.
<laga_> lns: is it using the right driver? seems so
<laga_> is there anything in Xorg.log?
<lns> laga_, it should be the right driver...let me check xorg.log - haven't since i updated the driver
<lns> I'm getting a bunch of these in Xorg.6.log:
<lns> "AMD(0): Not using default mode "1280x1024" (unknown reason)
<lns> and
<lns> "AMD(0): Not using default mode "1280x1024" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan)
#edubuntu 2008-02-15
<lns> If any of you are interested I'm tracking my issue here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-amd/+bug/180742
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180742 in xorg-server "xf86-video-amd: switching to a vcons fails" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<johnny> ogra, so how does gvfs affect what you're doing with ltsp? anything?
<johnny> any problems caused?
<ogra> i didnt test the new ltspfs yet
<ogra> (since i do my tests in the free version of virtualbox i dont have USB support)
<ogra> but i actually dont expect any problems
<johnny> well, what you need to test .. is to make sure that logout actually closes down the mounts
<johnny> which i seem to be having on and off troubles with
<johnny> it seems that gvfs hasn't gotten the love it deserves
<johnny> imo
<johnny> ogra, have you gotten vbox additions to work in hardy vbox?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> with a patch i dug up upstream for the older kernels, but recently tehre was an update of the modules, the current hardy package should worjk with the current hady kernel
<johnny> uggh
<johnny> didn't work so far
<johnny> altho i do have vboxvfs showing up in lsmod
<johnny> ogra, do you know anything about this? http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=432947
<ubotu> Gnome bug 432947 in general "Mouse pointer keeps busy while Sabayon is ready to work" [Minor,Unconfirmed]
<johnny> as i see hardy still uses gksu for some apps (atm at least)
<johnny> i've replicated that in ubuntu
<johnny> either way.. it's definitely a distro bug,as sabayon uses gnomesu by default in any case
<laga_> ogra: did you ever add support for alternate dhcp ports? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2006-August/000172.html
<ogra> laga_, i think dhclient prevents that deliberately so your second dhcp request will fail
<ogra> at leat in recnet versions
<laga_> ogra: the second dhcp request happens in the initramfs, doesn't it?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> in the running system
<ogra> err, nonsense
<ogra> the first one happens from the bootloader ... the second one from initramfs
<ogra> and s/dhclient/ipconfig/
<laga_> and the third one (being dhclient) will fail?
<ogra> the second one will already fail
<laga_> ogra: did you actually check that URL? you can just add -q <port> to the ipconfig call it seems
<ogra> as i said above, that was deliberately dropped i think
<laga_> ogra: ah, i misunderstood you then. sorry about that :)
<laga_> ogra: the code seems to be there in gutsy's klibc-utils
<laga_> ogra: just checked for hardy. it's still in the README and in usr/kinit/ipconfig/main.c so i guess it wasn't removed
<ogra> hmm, i read it was ...
<laga_> ogra: i can make a patch if you want (next week, no time right now)
<ogra> if ysou can prove that it works :)
<ogra> i know it doesnt if you forcefully set the port in the ltsp_nbd script
<laga_> ogra: sure.
<laga_> ogra: you mean if you use -p <port>?
<ogra> yes
<laga_> hum.
<laga_> i'll just try it w/ my other changes
<ogra> there is a guy on the edubuntu ML who is playing with non standard prots since a while
<ogra> *ports
<laga_> IP-Config: binding source port to 1337, dest to 1336
<laga_> seems like it works. maybe there was another problem at your end. i'll just test it and let you know.
<_mAyDaY_> hello everyone :) , could someone please take a look at this -- http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=695775
<_mAyDaY_> and comment? :)
<johnny> ldap .
<johnny> and the pam thing
<_mAyDaY_> isn't the pam thing only local ?
<_mAyDaY_> ie. will it record remaining time in someway in ldap?
<johnny> chill with the nick tho
<johnny> no need for the upper and lower case
<_mAyDaY_> it's an old habbit :o)
<johnny> i'm sure there's a way to store it in ldap somehow
<_lowercase_> k
<_lowercase_> is that the only way you see it?
<johnny> well you'll be doing some script on the user side for sure
<johnny> i'm sure there are other ways
<johnny> maybe if i get some time i can look it up
<_lowercase_> i wonder why the edubuntu team hasn't done any work in that direction
<_lowercase_> since it's pretty useful for schools or such
<johnny> they have enough to do already
<johnny> i'm sure stuff like that is on the radar
<johnny> this is what they are working on integrating now
<johnny> http://italc.sourceforge.net/
<_lowercase_> very nice
<johnny> somebody else might have some advice for you too
<_lowercase_> *hats off*
<johnny> if you stick around for a bit
<_lowercase_> sure
<_lowercase_> i'll come by often
<new710> Hello...
<johnny> i'd suggest idling
<johnny> for awhile
<new710> I have a question about deploying edubuntu in a school for about 25 computers.
<_lowercase_> due to technical issues, i can't idle (as in, leave the box running infinitly:)
<new710> How should I go about doing that?
<johnny> uhmm?
<johnny> that's too broad
<johnny> did you read the edubuntu handbook?
<johnny> that's a good start
<new710> Is there a way to install it to a server and deploy automatically?
<new710> Not thin clients, though.....
<johnny> most people do thin clients
<johnny> evne with real pcs
<new710> My server is not that powerful, will that many users, 25, impact performance?
<LaserJock> what are the specs?
<new710> Server is a P4, hyperthreading (don't recall the clock speed, but it is ubder 3GHz), 2 GB RAM.
<new710> ^under...
<LaserJock> I would think the RAM would be the limiter
<new710> Yeah.... I guess most of the processing will be handled by the clients.
<new710> Do you know how much RAM each thin client requires (default)?
<LaserJock> the handbook says the server needs: 256 + (128 * users) MB
<LaserJock> so you need about 3.5GB RAM
<LaserJock> new710: check out http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/server-hw.html
<new710> Ok, thank you very much for your help.  I know I should read the handbook!!!
<new710> Just that this school wants to upgrade to 2003 server and I mentioned this as a possible alternative.
<new710> Also comes with the usual Linux benefits, etc.
<_lowercase_> btw. can someone plz in few sentences explain (i didn't read the documentation:o) what is the role of the edubuntu server?
<gyaresu> Hey. Is edubuntu still a supported project?
<laga_> read the documentation? :)
<gyaresu> http://www.edubuntu.org/ThinClientConfig
<gyaresu> that's my point.
<laga_> gyaresu: was talking to _lowercase_
<gyaresu> link to "Edubuntu Handbook" not there... http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<gyaresu> laga_: Ah. Sorry.
<_lowercase_> laga_: just in few words :) , not in detail
<laga_> gyaresu: google "edubuntu handbook" and it comes up http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<laga_> gyaresu: looks like the URL is wrong
<LaserJock> _lowercase_: the server "serves" everything over the network to the thin client
<new710> The server acts as a controller for all of the thin clients connected to it.
<laga_> copyright 2004, 2005, 2006. hum.
<LaserJock> _lowercase_: have you ever done X forwarding? where you ssh into another machine and start up an X app?
<_lowercase_> LaserJock: yup
<LaserJock> _lowercase_: this is basically like that, but way cooler
<_lowercase_> that pretty much answers my question :)
<new710> Every thin client logs in to the server as their own user.
<LaserJock> the thin client just has a kernel,ssh, and X
<LaserJock> everything else is run on the server and is "forwarded" to the thin client
<_lowercase_> i get it, thnx :)
<LaserJock> that's why the thin client doesn't need a hard drive
<LaserJock> gyaresu: Edubuntu is very much a supported project
<_lowercase_> LaserJock: do you maybe have an idea for my inital question?
<new710> I was wondering, can the thin client do some processing in processor-intensive applications?
<johnny> that's something that is in the pipeline
<LaserJock> new710: well, there is work going on for that kind of thing
<LaserJock> new710: called local apps. where we actually run some stuff on the thin client
<LaserJock> like openGL apps
<new710> Yes, sounds good.
<LaserJock> _lowercase_: well, my guess would be ldap. time usage is something we'd like to do better with but just haven't seen good software for that
<gyaresu> I'm going to put a server into a cafe to run thin clients and manage wireless connections. Is edubuntu already setup to do proxy & shaping?
<LaserJock> but I actually don't run LTSP so I'm probably not the best to ask
<johnny> gyaresu, i useopenwrt
<_lowercase_> k
<johnny> err i use openwrt for that wireless part
<new710> Laserjock: Thanks for your help!
<gyaresu> johnny: I use Tomato. Not really gonna help with shaping though eh?
<gyaresu> johnny: I want a proxy so that it's a captive portal and does caching.
<johnny> yes.. captive portal
<johnny> i use coova atm
<gyaresu> johnny: Maybe even radius server.
<gyaresu> ah. not heard of it.
<johnny> i didn't need a radius server
 * gyaresu is googling coova
<johnny> but it does have that option
<gyaresu> How's it working out for you?
<johnny> mostly well
<johnny> i just used the TOS acceptance thing
<gyaresu> johnny: So some things not working?
#edubuntu 2008-02-16
 * ogra_cmpc reads the "academic free license"
<ogra_cmpc> ... 5) This section intentionally omitted. ...
<ogra_cmpc> i wonder if that the academic part of it ...
 * ogra_cmpc shakes head
<LaserJock> heh
<kgoetz> hehe
<johnny> lol
<johnny> ogra wtf is is a classmatepc
<johnny> hmm.. btw.. i'm not impressed by bzr so far
<johnny> i was hoping i'd like it better
<ogra_cmpc> http://www.classmatepc.com/
<johnny> oh.. their olpc competition
<johnny> i forgot about that thing
<ogra_cmpc> pfft
<ogra_cmpc> no competition if you look at the HW
<ogra_cmpc> or at the strategies
<kgoetz> for what value of 'no'? heh
<ogra_cmpc> OLPC tries to develop new concepts for hard and software based on sociological studies about human interaction in teaching
<ogra_cmpc> they are a scientific project ....
<LaserJock> yep
<ogra_cmpc> intel is a HW manufacturer ... they want to give every kid in the world a usable laptop and earn some money with it
<LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: somebody tried to sneak OLPC's squeak into Fedora saying it was "MIT" license ;-)
<ogra_cmpc> LOL !
<LaserJock> I'm surprised they use squeak so much given it's non-freeness
<ogra_cmpc> especially since fedora really just turns into a second debian regarding their license policy changes recently
<kgoetz> LaserJock: how does olpcs squeak differer from normal squeak?
<ogra_cmpc> there were some silly removals i heard of
<johnny> i've had this prejudice against rpm that i cant shake
<johnny> have't used an rpm based distro sine 2001
<kgoetz> thier being hyper caustios
<kgoetz> *sp
<LaserJock> kgoetz: it's got some special stuff to work with OLPC hardware
<LaserJock> and then they've built a lot of goodies for kids I guess
<LaserJock> using etoys
<LaserJock> I've recently spent a week with Fedora when I didn't have an Ubuntu alternate disk around
<kgoetz> LaserJock: i was wonderin if olpc's version was less-free then the standard squeak, or if its just the normal 'non-freeness'
<ogra_cmpc> and ?
<LaserJock> it was definitely better than openSUSE
<kgoetz> *wondering
<LaserJock> but some things are hard to get used to
<LaserJock> I had a lot of problems with networking
<LaserJock> that "Just Worked" in Ubuntu
<ogra_cmpc> really ?
<LaserJock> yeah, Fedora won't work with my uni's VPN
<ogra_cmpc> they claim their NM works better :P
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> NM isn't even turned on by default
<ogra_cmpc> i had some discussions with warren :)
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<LaserJock> I had to go into the service config thingy
<ogra_cmpc> i didnt know that
<LaserJock> and enable it
<LaserJock> then go into the network config thingy
<LaserJock> and tell it to let NM manage the interfaces
<LaserJock> *that* took me some time to figure out
<ogra_cmpc> yeah, i can imagine
<LaserJock> but the VPN issue was the hardest
<LaserJock> Ubuntu has network-manager-pptp
<LaserJock> which makes my uni VPN a breeze
<LaserJock> but I couldn't for the life of me get Fedora to work with it
<LaserJock> they're really wanting to beef up Edu stuff though
<LaserJock> not just LTSP
<ogra_cmpc> well, from hardy+1 on we'll do that too
<ogra_cmpc> for hardy i just want the cd change to work
<ogra_cmpc> in hardy+1 we can finally take care for some apps and for filling up the CD
<ogra_cmpc> warren tries to merge k12ltsp into fedora ...
<LaserJock> what is the CD situation
<ogra_cmpc> but he just starts
<LaserJock> I saw cjwatson making seed changes
<ogra_cmpc> the seed and germinate chnages are done
<ogra_cmpc> cd build changes are still missing
<ogra_cmpc> but should be done next week
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I had wanted to try to get a little more onto it
<ogra_cmpc> alpha5 will definately have the new setup
<LaserJock> but squeak is taking most of my *buntu time at the moment :(
<LaserJock> the new octave3.0 is supposed to be a real good Matlab replacement
<ogra_cmpc> we need to find a way to only have langpacks on there that are not on the ubuntu cd already
<LaserJock> oh, that's a good point
<ogra_cmpc> currently we waste a lot of space
<LaserJock> ltsp is also on there as well, right?
<LaserJock> but that doesn't take much space
<ogra_cmpc> i'm not even sure anyone uses the langpacks from the cd
<ogra_cmpc> nope
<ogra_cmpc> no ltsp on there
<LaserJock> it might be worth having all the gcompris sound packages if we don't already
<ogra_cmpc> moodle, postgres, apache, php ...
<LaserJock> those things are a pain to download
<ogra_cmpc> everything in /live will go to addon
<ogra_cmpc> -live
<LaserJock> ah, shipaddon has then
<LaserJock> *them
<LaserJock> I spent a good part of the day in #gcompris
<ogra_cmpc> we'll have the old edubuntu desktop again ... but with the difference that it depends on ubuntu-desktop
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> there's a new release of gcompris I'm gonna try to get into Hardy
<LaserJock> it should fix a bunch of crashers
<ogra_cmpc> great
 * ogra_cmpc thinks he finally found the right combo of apps for a speedy and blingy cmpc desktop
<ogra_cmpc> i've tried a good amount of docks now on this HW ... cairo-dock is the first one thats not stuttering ... really impressive
<LaserJock> I talked to the gcompris Debian maintainer and he said he'd have the new version shortly
<LaserJock> I'll file a UVFe/sync request after that
<ogra_cmpc> cool
<achandrashekar> hello. I had posted to the list with my question(s) as well. Hoep someone can answer here as well.
<achandrashekar> When installing in standalone mode. I first receive a message on a single nic device that I need to edit /etc/default/dhcp
<achandrashekar> and then i notice that once installed NOT all packages are installed to make to serve ltsp
<achandrashekar> as a result, I completely re-installed ltsp-standalone
<achandrashekar> then..re-edit the dhcp.conf.
<achandrashekar> The question is - Am I going about the standalone correctly?
<achandrashekar> Next question is about failover-dhcp
<achandrashekar> I couldnt get it working following the directions to the T on wiki
<achandrashekar> but i had only one box installed, do i need both to be up?
<achandrashekar> I couldnt even get the image to boot on my clients.
<achandrashekar> but if i try to get a simple config of dhcp.conf...then no issues.
<achandrashekar> all right we will try the mail lists....again.
<achandrashekar> :/
<lowercase_> greetz everyone
<edu_help_pls> hello
<edu_help_pls> is there anybody who can help me with an issue?
<edu_help_pls> ?
<edu_help_pls> who can help me with an issue with edubuntu???
<laga_> edu_help_pls: ask a question and wait - someone might have an answer
<edu_help_pls> ok
<edu_help_pls> so
<edu_help_pls> i have tried to implement a project  with edubuntu. 1 server and 20 diskless clients. 10/100 24 port switch. 10/100/1000 nic. I need to run Firefox on all clients. But when 3-4-5 clients access a flash website any other client does not respond as the network is suffocated
<edu_help_pls> the network reaches 12MBs traffic
<edu_help_pls> why????
<edu_help_pls> is flash doing so much traffic????
<edu_help_pls> flash=swf
<laga_> edu_help_pls: relax with the question marks. i don't have an answer (other than flash playback probably takes a lot of playback as each picture is transmitted over the network).
<laga_> maybe someone in here knows :)
<edu_help_pls> but i hope there is a sollution because otherwise i'm dead
<edu_help_pls> :(
#edubuntu 2008-02-17
<Liono> how to log all the "screen unlocking events"  for ever. and continuous even resumable after shutdowns ?  log all unlocks for a full month.  (i want to force lock screen. the screen saver has an option but for idle time. i want to force lock. no matter what.)
<Liono> the auth.log dont shows successfull unlock events. it only shows unsuccesful ones
<Liono> using kubuntu. PAM only logs (in auth.log) the unsuccesful tries. i need the  sucsecfuls ones onlY)
#edubuntu 2009-02-09
<nothingman> hi, all
<LaserJock> hi nothingman
<nothingman> what's new?
<LaserJock> not a ton
<xmedex> hello...someone could help me
<LaserJock> xmedex: what do you need?
<stgraber> LaserJock: pong (hyper late one)
<LaserJock> stgraber: np, just wanted to catch up a bit
<LaserJock> stgraber: you available for a meeting sometime this week?
<stgraber> LaserJock: probably yes
<LaserJock> stgraber: what's a good time of day for you?
<LaserJock> stgraber: how's LTSP going?
<stgraber> LaserJock: anytime from 8am-12am and 1pm-5pm EST should be fine
<stgraber> LaserJock: LTSP is going fine, I just uploaded a new package a few hours ago and have a few things to implement before FF but that still leaves me plenty of time
<LaserJock> stgraber: you been able to do many test installs?
<stgraber> most features are already there, I just need to implement a better way of adding Ubuntu-specific stuff to it (like hardware-specific workarounds)
<stgraber> I'm actually testing ltsp-build-client to make sure it behaves as it should :) then I have to make sure it works on the CD as well (it failed for alpha-4 ...)
<stgraber> I also uploaded a new italc to my PPA for testing, it should fix most issues I heard about (mainly for LTSP users)
<LaserJock> stgraber: ok, cool
<stgraber> I'll test it next week and if there is no regression upload it
<stgraber> one thing I still have to do is to update the default themes in ldm but not having the new artwork for ubuntu doesn't help :)
<stgraber> though we have a different freeze for that IIRC
<LaserJock> rright
<LaserJock> stgraber: have you had a chance to look at how LTSP is doing on Hardy lately?
<LaserJock> vorian: heah
<vorian> HI!
<vorian> LaserJock: I'm working on sponsoring the sugar update... and suddenly realized of all the channels i'm on, this was not one :)
<stgraber> LaserJock: not really, scotty wanted to look at what would need to be fixed in hardy.
<LaserJock> stgraber: k, np
<stgraber> LaserJock: I don't deploy Hardy anymore and the hardy we deployed was some kind of fork ...
<LaserJock> vorian: ah, cool
<stgraber> LaserJock: the main issue I guess is that since Hardy a very large part of LTSP was changed making it hard to backport a fix to Hardy (it'd already be hard for Intrepid)
<stgraber> my customers are actually running Jaunty's LTSP backported on Intrepid :)
<LaserJock> vorian: thanks for those uploads
<vorian> LaserJock: no problem, these packages are very well made :)
<LaserJock> vorian: I'm sure morgs will be glad to hear that
<vorian> :)
<vorian> hrm
<vorian> archives down?
<vorian> seems that way
<stgraber> yeah
<stgraber> I uploaded to it several hours ago and it's still pending
<stgraber> built fine but never reached the archive
<vorian> my pbuilder is getting 404's when it tries to get dependancies
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I built something just a minute or two ago
<stgraber> yeah, you get confirmation from LP, then it builds but never appears in the archive :) LTSP is marked as pending (as in pending upload to archive.ubuntu.com) for a few hours now
<stgraber> (but is built for all archs so seems like it's the cron job doing the copy from LP to archive that's failing)
 * vorian tries another mirror
<stgraber> I'm using archive.ubuntu.com so it's supposed to be up to date :)
<stgraber> and LP marks it as PENDING so it's not a mirroring issue, otherwise it'd be PUBLISHED and missing on the mirrors
 * LaserJock kicks edubuntu-meta around a few times
<LaserJock> stupid thing
<LaserJock> take that dpkg!!
<LaserJock> edubuntu-meta away
<vorian> all sugar packages away!
<vorian> morgs: awesome job!
<alkisg> LaserJock: about all the (gcompris-sound-cs) dependencies, can't gcompris recommend a package based on the system language? E.g. gcompris-sound-el isn't even on the list, and all other sounds are useless for e.g. greek schools...
<LaserJock> we don't have any mechanism to make that work right now
<alkisg> LaserJock: ok, I thought it would be simple (like gnome-language-pack-*)... :)
<LaserJock> the only system I know for that is in ubiquity, which doesn't help us out
<LaserJock> well, if the sounds were in a lang-pack then yes
<LaserJock> but they're not and I can't imagine that would ever happen
<LaserJock> alkisg: I really can't think of any good system off hand to make it better
<alkisg> I don't know almost anything about packaging, so don't mind me... :)
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if the language selector could be used, perhaps though
<alkisg> I just thought language-based selection of packages would be something that the .deb packaging system would offer
<LaserJock> nope, that's all stuff we have to add on top
<LaserJock> the packaging system itself just provides for hard-coded dependencies, there's nothing dynamic about it
<alkisg> So when I install openoffice, how does e.g. openoffice.org-l10n-el get installed?
<alkisg> That's ubiquity magic?
<LaserJock> yep
<alkisg> Ah, I see the problem... :(
<alkisg> .debs should support at least a <system-lang> macro. E.g. gcompris recommends gcompris-sound-<system-lang|en>
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure if it's ubiquity or the language selector for OO.o
<LaserJock> language-support-translations-el depends on openoffice.org-l10n-el
<alkisg> I don't have language-support-translations-el installed
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> then perhaps that's ubiquity
<alkisg> (but I think I should, thanks! :))
<LaserJock> it used to be we didn't even have the flexibility of Recommends
<LaserJock> we got that around Intrepid I think
<LaserJock> it used to be only packages in Depends where installed, and if one of them was uninstalled it uninstalled everything
<sbalneav> Morning all
<nubae> hmmm so my connection dropped yesteday and just got back from fossdem...
<nubae> ogra u around?
<alkisg> hey nubae - get up your bot, we need logs! :P :D
<alkisg> (welcome back)!
<ogra> alkisg, ubuntulog doesnt suffice ?
<ogra> nubae, with half an eye ...
<alkisg> ogra: sorry, wrong channel, I was talking about the #ltsp logs :)
<ogra> :)
<nubae> ogra.... hey there
<nubae> so u just wanted to know ure objections to moving to kde as the edubuntu platform]
<nubae> obviously not entirely, but juts to get an inflflux of developers
<ogra> my objections are that edubuntu shouldnt care about the desktop ... its an addon
<nubae> we already use the deps from kde-edu and lets be honest they are the best ones and work the way they are supposed to]
<ogra> i dont doubt that
<nubae> an addon without the most important aspect... it wont addon to kde will it?
<ogra> but edubuntu should work with icewm as well as with gnome and kde by including the best edu apps possible, regardless what platform is underneatj
<ogra> thats why we put about six months of effort into decoupling it from the desktop
<ogra> sure it will addon to kde
<ogra> laser has split it into two parts though (a kde and a gnome part( which i wouldnt agree with either ...
<nubae> hmmm but what about integration of aps like the one I mentioned using plasmoids as teacher tools
<ogra> but thats up to you guys anyway
<ogra> i just am not happy to hear someone say edubuntu is kde now or edubuntu is gnome only
<ogra> since that means all my work i put into removing that desktop binding was moot
<ogra> the idea was to have it just a s the best set of edu apps possible with the option to install it as metapackage on any given desktop you like
<LaserJock> morning all
<ogra> reverting that to deeply bind it into any desktop again imho totally misses the point
<ogra> and will just re-fuel the desktop wars again
<ogra> hey LaserJock
<nubae> hey LaserJock
<nubae> was just talking about something that involves u kinda
<nubae> yesterday and the day before I was in fossdem
<nubae> and spoke for a couple hours to the kde guys
<nubae> who expressed a greast interest into getting involved in edubuntu
<LaserJock> awesome
<nubae> ogra was just saying that it kinda defeats the purpose, bieng htat it shold be platform independent
<ogra> no
<ogra> thats not what i said, i appreciate kde devs (especially kdeedu) getting involved
<nubae> but i was shown some exsiting apps, based on plasmoids that totally blew my mind... with reallty a couple of lines of code they made a parley plasmoid that switched every 10 seconds with words/sentences based on languages u choose
<nubae> that kinda shit is exactly what children need
<LaserJock> nubae: right
<nubae> the kde-edu team is massive
<LaserJock> yep
<ogra> wht i said was that we made a lot of effort to make edubuntu an addon thats desktop independent and that i strongly oppose to declare is as a kde or gnome solution but that it should be usable on *any* kind of desktop and sould be promoted like that
<nubae> they wanna get involved
<nubae> Ive been given the details on who to get involved with at the kde level team
<nubae> and get them to be a part of edubuntu
<LaserJock> ogra: I agree, however there are some complications to that
<nubae> the question is, do we all agree?
<ogra> i.e. if a school has an underpowered ltsp server they should be able to use edubuntu on top of icewm ltsp desktops
<ogra> without having to think about it being kde, gnome whatever
<LaserJock> our primary focus should *always* be Education
<nubae> ogra but it doesnt work that way... take a loook at sugar
<ogra> nubae, as i said, i dont have to say anyting anymore in edubuntu land its up to you all
<nubae> it does stuff dependent on what sugar deps are required
<LaserJock> ogra: except you're the Edubuntu godfather :-)
<nubae> the other thing is.... kde 4.2 soesnt with with ltsp
<LaserJock> ogra: you have more Edubuntu experience than all of us combined I think
<nubae> it severlty limits our deployments
<ogra> LaserJock, but i dont do anything anymore ... i'm happy to step back ... just stating my opinion
<LaserJock> ogra: sure, I'm just saying it's a very valued opinion
<nubae> but u are involved in many aspects
<nubae> we need your leadership in some ways, and your experience
<ogra> LaserJock, i'm aware of that :)
<LaserJock> ok, so let me step back for a sec
<LaserJock> Edubuntu is about education, simple enough
<ogra> nubae, so what about sugar ... the edubuntu-sugar metapackage would pull in all deps needed
<nubae> we are talking about an addoncc
<nubae> addoncd
<ogra> and ?
<LaserJock> one of the issues that we have is that it's rather difficult to create a totally DE-neutral educational layer
<nubae> what happens when we combine sugar, kde and gnome
<ogra> if you seed the metapackage germinate will dtrt
<nubae> ]are we then talking about a addon dvd?
<LaserJock> nubae: no
<LaserJock> adding sugar to what we already have would be easy
<LaserJock> the problem is that the CD relys on Ubuntu
<LaserJock> hence the "gnome dependency"
<nubae> but not kde and gnome with the entire desktop
<nubae> which we need for the plasmoids
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> so this is why we have edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-desktop-kde, IMO
<nubae> right!
<LaserJock> the eductional apps are the same
<LaserJock> but we fill in the cracks to make them work with the underlying DE
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> however, the *educational* components should basically be the same no matter what
<nubae> sounds complicated
<LaserJock> it is
<nubae> but u are more devs than I
<LaserJock> for instance, what about Xubuntu?!
<nubae> I am more a marketing guy
 * ogra would propose to talk to cjwatson for a better solution that makes it reasier ;)
<ogra> *easier
<nubae> \well the biggest flaw is ltsp not working in kde
<ogra> which is totally unrelated to edubuntu
<nubae> we lost 68 millions kids cause if that in brazil
<ogra> sure sure
<LaserJock> nubae: we did?
<ogra> where do these numbers come from *g*
<nubae> the kde guys
<ogra> heh
<nubae> they reiterated it yesterday
<LaserJock> I don't think *we* lost 68 million kids
<nubae> the cant alll be making up the same numbers
<LaserJock> Linux *gained* 68 million kids, that's great
<nubae> look, ltsp is totally related to eduaction
<nubae> its the biggest market
<nubae> we all know this
<LaserJock> it's one part of it
 * ogra wouldnt want to have to care for 68mio kids ... the daily amount of milk alone ...
<ogra> oh my
<nubae> the biggest by far
<LaserJock> I see a lot of people who are talking about moving away to LTSP
<LaserJock> to netbooks
<ogra> right
<nubae> ]well we can combine that
<ogra> ltsp's usecase is far bigger than edu
<LaserJock> and edu's is far bigger than ltsp
<nubae> and in fact i know devs working on it like nomad
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> but there is a good intersection
<ogra> right as well
<alkisg> ...also, if students get to know linux from their educational years, it'll be easier for them to use linux later on. Education is critical...
<LaserJock> so, that's why I have LTSP as an area of focus in our strategy document
<nubae> anyway msut eat... ill get back in conversation soonl...
<LaserJock> it's not *everything* but it's a common use case we need to care about at some level
<LaserJock> right now though, the focus should be on getting what we *do* have ready
<ogra> sure
<ogra> make KDE work with ltsp then
<LaserJock> right
<ogra> its not ltsp's fault
<LaserJock> I told aseigo that and he said he'd look into it
<ogra> its just that nobody ever cared to fix the apps
<LaserJock> so, if KDE people want to help out, awesome
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> there's always a home for edu devs here :-)
<ogra> no objection here
<LaserJock> alternatively, we're not just going to hop completely on the KDE boat either
<ogra> but nobae is talking about "edubuntu is no KDE only, hooray" ... thats what i was objecting
<LaserJock> sure
<ogra> *now
<LaserJock> I think we're now "equal oppritunity" :-)
<ogra> edubuntu needs to be xubuntu, gnome, icewm, kde, lxde, younameit
<LaserJock> basically how I see it is this
<ogra> its surely not there yet with the desktop deps ... but it cam a long way already
<ogra> *came
<LaserJock> 1) we create educational app metapackage/bundles
<LaserJock> those can be install on any *buntu
<LaserJock> 2) edubuntu-desktop* add in special DE-specific extras for the "big guys" to make the Ubuntu/Kubuntu experience better
<LaserJock> the problem is really only on the .iso as far as I can see
<LaserJock> as we have to essentially pick a .iso to base off of
<ogra> and thats something cjwatson can solve
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> so if KDE people want to come in and make edubuntu-desktop-kde better and make KDE Edu better, awesome
<LaserJock> if GNOME people want to make edubuntu-desktop and sabayon, etc. better, awesome
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> but we are *education*, wherever that is
<LaserJock> right now KDE has some *very* powerful stuff in plasma, etc.
<ogra> apparently
<LaserJock> and we can always encourage them in that to make KDE better for education
 * ogra has to belive the hype apparently :)
<LaserJock> it's pretty sweet
<LaserJock> but it seems heavy to me
<LaserJock> not something I'd want to run on loaded LTSP servers, for instance
<ogra> well, the whole of KDE4 is still far from being shaken out properly imho
<ogra> at least what i have seen so far
<LaserJock> KDE 4.2 is significanly better, almost usable even ;-)
<ogra> it definately needs to lose a lot of weight ... gnome 2.x took several years to get to that point
<ogra> i wouldnt assume KDE to be massively faster
<LaserJock> apparently it runs on netbooks OK
<LaserJock> but I haven't tried it
<LaserJock> ogra: somebody has filed a bug requesting the removal of debian-edu from Ubuntu
<LaserJock> ogra: do you have any thoughts on what Debian would think of that?
<ogra> nothing i guess ... it breaks anyway on ubuntu
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> apparently morgs was having problems with their sugar package
<ogra> its totally debian centric and does a lot nonstd stuff afauk
<ogra> *afaik
<LaserJock> I think I'll go ahead and ack it, it's so confusing as is to have education-*
<ogra> like editing conffiles from postinst etc ... unless they fixed that
<LaserJock> I just don't want Debian thinking we're being mean
<LaserJock> :-)
<ogra> do you know who filed it ?
<LaserJock> it was filed by  lfaraone in response to a bug from morgs
<LaserJock> and slangasek asked for an ack
<LaserJock> it in Universe so technically MOTU territory
<LaserJock> but I think it's more an issue with Edubuntu
<LaserJock> since I plan on having a set of educational metapackage for Universe the usefulness of the debian-edu ones is much less
<LaserJock> especially when we have transitions
<LaserJock> for instance, I believe their still using KDE3 stuff so some of the packages are uninstallable
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> just drop it
<LaserJock> yikes, Debian has fixed a *ton* of moodle bugs
<LaserJock> and there's new maintainers
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> moodle is my hell of pain ...
<ogra> i still havent found the time to merge it
<ogra> and even keescook is hunting me down for it already
<ogra> it being a security risk in jaunty ...
<LaserJock> ogra: I'll have a look
<LaserJock> we've gotten a few upgrade/uninstallable bugs from it as well
 * ogra hugs LaserJock 
<LaserJock> server stuff isn't my best area, but it wouldn't hurt to learn some more ;-)
<LaserJock> it might be a good chance to use the ~edubuntu-dev PPA
<LaserJock> since I think it might need some testing before we just shove it in
#edubuntu 2009-02-10
<Ahmuck> i need to lock the screen size in at 1024x768 for all clients
<Ahmuck> i assume there is a management utility to do this?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: Well, you could just set the screen dimensions in gconf
<sbalneav> and make it a mandatory setting.
<Ahmuck> ok.  i'll do that.  thx
<david__> Hello, I'm trying to install the Edubuntu education addon cd and I'm having problems, when I put the cd in the drive and click install add on, it starts to install but it gets to 33 out of 104 and says there was an error and asks if i want to keep ignoring the uninstalled packages. I tried a few times  and then I added the CDROM to software sources then tried a few more times. I don't know linux or ubuntu to well could someone please help?
<david__> ne1 here?
<LaserJock> david__: on sec
<LaserJock> david__: what version of Edubuntu/Ubuntu?
<LaserJock> david__: and do you happen to know what package it gets messed up on?
<david__> 8.10
<david__> no, let me try to run it again
<david__> can i just install from the rpos?
<david__> repos?
<david__> W: Failed to fetch cdrom:[Edubuntu 8.10 _Intrepid Ibex_ - Release amd64 Binary-1 (20081027.1)]/pool/main/e/edubuntu-addon-meta/app-install-data-edubuntu_0.8_all.deb
<david__>   Hash Sum mismatch
<david__> that is at the top of the list
<david__> kino_1.3.0-2ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<david__> and that one is at the bottom of the list
<loic-m> ogra, are you there?
<ogra> loic-m, only with half an eye, very busy, what up ?
<ogra> *whats
<loic-m> Just a question about tuxtype/tuxmath Ubuntu changes in case you know
<loic-m> Changelog for ubuntu1 : add X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=tuxtype
<loic-m> Since with new versions the other diffs with Debian should only be that, I was wondering what it does and if it's really useful since tuxmath don't have that
<loic-m> It could be because that release had Ubuntu changes for two language translations, and since they're now upstream the X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain could be dropped. However I don't know for sure.
<loic-m> Another explanation would have been because the .desktop file has Rosetta translations - but I couldn't find any tuxtype related stuff in Rosetta (on Launchpad)
<loic-m> Need to shut down, I'll read the logs tonight if somebody can provide an answer
<ogra> loic-m, the X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain setting is used by language packs
<highvoltage> LaserJock: half a kilogram even? :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: whoops, I replied to something ancient (just had to hold in pgdn for a few seconds there)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you get my email to -devel about EC and LP teams?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep I ded
<highvoltage> *did
<highvoltage> LaserJock: only read it today though, I didn't have a chance to check my email really since before the weekend
<LaserJock> k, np
<LaserJock> just wanted to make sure my emails were getting through
<LaserJock> Gmail doesn't exactly give me confidence as they don't really show your email arriving to the list
<Lns> Hey all
<LaserJock> hi Lns
<Lns> Can you do localapps with a Hardy server and an Ibex chroot?
<Lns> hey LaserJock !
<alkisg> Lns: does that boot? !!!
<Lns> alkisg: never tried, just asking ;)
<Lns> As you probably know, I like sticking w/LTS - but I could really use localapp and/or fat client functionality
<Lns> i think fat clients work in hardy, right?
<alkisg> I think the ltsp client / server differences would be too vast for it to boot
<Lns> alkisg: gotcha.. i was worried about that. Too bad
<alkisg> Hey, I'm newbie, don't take my word for it, wait for the experts.. :)
<Lns> i'll have to try the fat client script when i'm feeling gutsy (no pun intended)
<Lns> alkisg: i think you're far from a newbie ;)
<alkisg> Nah... Last April I started using Linux exclusively. Not even a year yet... :(
<alkisg> (damn 17 years of DOS/Windows...)
<Lns> oh wow
<Lns> i guess that makes me a vet! =p (using linux since RH 5.1 in '95)
<alkisg> Wow!!!
<Lns> of course i'm lazy so i wasn't always learning what i should have been (scripting, coding, etc.)
<alkisg> First time I used internet was around '98... I couldn't even get my hands on RH 5.1 :)
<LaserJock> I've been using Linux since RH 7.2 in 2002
<beachsurfin> what software allows me to view what each client is doing on their desktop?
<Lns> beachsurfin: iTalc
<Lns> I apologize to everyone here for not picking up the ball on the Edubuntu wiki..i've been so slammed
<Lns> it's still on my to-do list though
<Lns> I'm having to study RT to convert my existing ticketing database over
<beachsurfin> thanks Lns
<LaserJock> yeah, I think I'm going to tighten up the Jaunty TODO and set milestones
<LaserJock> we've only got 9 days until Feature Freeze
<Lns> that's insane
<Lns> I *just* upgraded to the Ibex on my eee :)
<Lns> it was impossible without a format (4GB SSD)
<Lns> what sucks is that I was looking forward to hibernate in swap, but I was in a rush and accepted defaults for partitions (256mb swap) and I have 512mb ram..so there's never enough room :(
<LaserJock> Lns: ah yeah, I've done that before
<alkisg> Can't a swap file be used for hibernation? I thought there was a workaround for this...
<Lns> alkisg: not sure. I don't get why *buntu likes swap partitions for hibernation anyway
<Lns> seems kind of weird
<LaserJock> Lns: it's a good place to put stuff
<Lns> LaserJock: but...it's used for...swap!
<Lns> how does it flush what it needs from swap to make room for hibernation?
 * Lns probably just doesn't get it
<LaserJock> swap always gets flushed anyway
<LaserJock> I don't understand much of it
<Lns> ah
<LaserJock> but it does mean you always have that space there
<LaserJock> it's a known quantity
 * Lns will probably have to use parted to resize, and turn swap off since it's an SSD anyway
<LaserJock> and since the kernel is already used to moving stuff from swap into RAM I assume it's easier to implement
<Lns> kinda funny..it'll move swap into ram, then back into swap to hibernate :p
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> so all it does is shuffle between the two
<Lns> wonder if that could be optimized
<LaserJock> ogra: I sent an email to the Debian moodle maintainers, who are also upstream devs I think
<ogra> i dont hink they are upstream
<LaserJock> hmm, I thought at least one said they were somewhere along the line
<ogra> we made some attamept to get upstream involved though ...
<ogra> so they probably finally took over
<LaserJock> yeah
<ogra> moquist had some very long conversations with the upstream guys to get the split going about a year ago
<ogra> great to see they finally did it
<ogra> sad to see that moquist vanished
<ogra> he actually wanted o take over maintenance in debian and ubuntu back then, but stepped down shortly after that
<LaserJock> yeah, there are new maintainers as of November
<ogra> ah, well, cool if thats actualy upstream
<LaserJock> yeah, I could really use his help with this merge :-)
 * ogra could really need som understanding of HEX
<LaserJock> yeah, I don't envy you
<ogra> tinkering with bootloaders isnt really fun
 * LaserJock would rather  stick to edu stuff
<ogra> well, nobody told me in advance that i would have to hack up debians broken bootloaders :P
<LaserJock> ogra: that reminds me, some people reported bugs about the edubuntu bootsplash making their system unbootable
<LaserJock> ogra: do you happen to know if things have changed since the last time you updated the artwork package?
<ogra> no, i dont
<ogra> worst case just drop it
<LaserJock> it doesn't exactly make a ton of sense for an "addon layer"
<LaserJock> I wonder if we really should remove the bootsplash but leave the other artwork
<alkisg> "understanding of HEX" - ogra, what is HEX?
<ogra> well, there should be artwork packages for the respective desktops imho
<LaserJock> ogra: sure, but the bootsplash kind of implies a different OS, you know?
<ogra> alkisg, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=451882
<ubottu> Debian bug 451882 in apex-nslu2 "Increase CONFIG_RAMDISK_SIZE" [Normal,Closed]
<ogra> LaserJock, yes, i said desktop :)
<LaserJock> ogra: exactly
<ogra> alkisg, by the looks of it i need the proper value for 5M
 * alkisg reads...
<ogra> hmm seems 0x004CCCC0 might be what i want
<alkisg> Erm, I didn't get it. I thought the result (6291440 bytes transferred) is just 0x00600000 minus the header (=16 bytes).
<alkisg> ogra, the man that opened the bug just asked for a static change in the header to 0x00600000 - 16... So for 5M you'd need 5M - 16.
<alkisg> So 0x004FFFF0
<LaserJock> anybody have any Edubuntu bugs that they feel *must* be fixed for Jaunty?
<stgraber> LaserJock: as in, package we maintain or really "edubuntu" (package list, meta, task, ...) ?
#edubuntu 2009-02-11
<LaserJock> stgraber: anything that has a bug report
<LaserJock> stgraber: I'm looking at getting RCbugs/milestones going
<nubae> gosh using a belgian keyboard is like learning how to type again
<nubae> LaserJockus... how goes?
<nubae> damn insomnia got me up again
<nubae> bah no one around to keep me co,pany :(
<LaserJock> nubae!!
<LaserJock> nubae: I've been wondering where you went
<nubae> here i q,
<nubae> am
<nubae> damn stupid belgian keyboard
<LaserJock> nubae: I'm working on moodle
<nubae>  reallly!!!
<nubae> u?
<nubae> god heavens why?
<nubae> not that I am unhqppy or qnything
<nubae> qs u cqn see q gets replqced zith a
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I'm working on the moodle packaging
<LaserJock> not moodle itself
<nubae> aaaah
<nubae> wow... Ill be happy bout that
<LaserJock> there are a huge number of security vulnerabilities in our current versions
<nubae> Ill do a little dance for u
<LaserJock> anyway, I'm not a moodle user, so my testing consists of "does it load in the browser?"
<LaserJock> if I were to upload to a PPA would you be willing to test?
<nubae> but of course
<nubae> Im so heqvily involved in moodle dev, it kinda makes my stomach turn
<LaserJock> what Ubuntu version could you test on?
<nubae> but as u can probably guess I installed everything from source
<nubae> dude
<nubae> while u are qt it::: please package mahara
<nubae> ill test on whatever u tell me, hqve a teaching conference coming in a couple weeks
<nubae> zould be good time to test in the field
<nubae> so whatcha think about what I mentioned yesterday
<nubae> ogra didnt seem too thrilled
<nubae> but the kde folkds are like 100 percent with us
<nubae> qt first when u mentioned it I kinda was on the fence... but talking to them I got pretty convinced
<LaserJock> well, I know what ogra was saying
<LaserJock> we can't just drop gnome and say "we're a KDE shop now!!!"
<nubae> its qbout undoing his work
<LaserJock> but on the other hand we're certainly not "no KDE allowed" obviously
<nubae> that shit happens all the time in osp
<LaserJock> no, he pioneered a lot of it
<LaserJock> he stuck by KDE Edu from the first
<nubae> i know thqt
<LaserJock> the thing is we're trying to shoot for DE neutrality
<LaserJock> more than shifting from one to the other
<nubae> and am the first to appreciate that... but must we start alking backwards?
<LaserJock> how do you mean?
<nubae> walking
<nubae> kde is clearly now the superior plqtform
<LaserJock> well, that's somewhat irrelevent though
<nubae> it wasnt when ogrq did all the wonderful stuff he did
<nubae> no it isnt
<LaserJock> well, it quite often was better
<LaserJock> that's why we carried KDE deps forever
<nubae> ze need the best damn edu platform to deploy
<nubae> this is not about devs
<LaserJock> because KDE Edu is a world class suite of software
<nubae> this is about educators
<LaserJock> exactly
<LaserJock> whether those educators choose Gnome or KDE shouldn't matter
<nubae> but they are kde guys LaserJock
<LaserJock> great
<LaserJock> so edubuntu-desktop-kde should rock!
<LaserJock> and KDE Edu will continue to rock
<nubae> we join we become 3 ti,es ,ore capable
<nubae> right1
<LaserJock> no, I don't think so actually
<nubae> but focus should be on that noz
<nubae> now
<LaserJock> we're a distro, a distro does inherently different things than upstreams
<nubae> god I hate this keyboqrd
<LaserJock> I can usually understand you :-)
<nubae> our upstream is edu
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> of all flavors
<nubae> zo fuck the platform
<LaserJock> so we work with KDE, we work with gnome, we work with moodle, we work with tux4kids
<nubae> use whats best qt the moment
<LaserJock> well, it's not that easy though
<nubae> and u tell me what is that?
<nubae> in terms of guys getting involed
<LaserJock> you can't focus down on a single DE and the be switching back-n-forth all the time
<nubae> in terms of appps that really work?
<LaserJock> for getting people involved, we'd certianly welcome KDE people
<LaserJock> that doesn't mean we're KDE-only
<nubae> ok lets take a step bqck...
<nubae> I never meant that at all
<nubae> but we must make it clear we are not a gnome project
<LaserJock> well, that's what I've been doing with most of my time in Jaunty
<nubae> and that my friend is not obvious
<nubae> i realise
<LaserJock> right now edubuntu-desktop-kde is equal, finally
<nubae> but u are one man
<LaserJock> I talked with asegio
<LaserJock> we've made neutral app bundles
<nubae> get the damn help from these guys thqt are itching to join
<LaserJock> well ...
<LaserJock> the channels have always been open
<LaserJock> people don't step up
<nubae> i dont belive thqt
<LaserJock> if they want to, I'm very very happy
<nubae> I was told i person that u guys dont communicqte
<LaserJock> but I've made quite a few calls for help, as has sbalneav, ogra, and others in the last couple years
<nubae> ok, to zho?
<LaserJock> and stgraber and I are the only ones left standing
<nubae> jeez... who
<LaserJock> to Planet Ubuntu
<LaserJock> edubuntu-devel and edubuntu-users
<LaserJock> any time I've talked with upstreams I've said we're more than happy to collaborate and get help
<nubae> i will join u soon; I promise... let me get the hang of pqckqging
<nubae> but I also like the community binding part
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> I mean, bottom line, it takes a lot of work to keep things running
<LaserJock> and right now there isn't anybody to do it right
<LaserJock> so yeah, we could do better at getting people involved
<nubae> LaserJock u are thinking inisie the box
<LaserJock> I'm thinking in current reality
<LaserJock> so yeah, a bit inside the box
<LaserJock> but I'm facing Feature Freeze in 9 days
<nubae> no; u mentioned devel and users
<nubae> sorry that is not the edu community
<LaserJock> people want results, but very very few want to help
<nubae> thats not even 10%
<LaserJock> well, more *can* help than want
<LaserJock> I know there are a lot of well-meaning people out there that would love to get involved and help
<nubae> so do what u can, no one will ever be ungrqteful
<LaserJock> but it currently takes around 1 year to "create" a dev
<nubae> but we need to grow this community
<LaserJock> and most people just won't make it
<nubae> big time
<LaserJock> I totally agree
<LaserJock> I'd like to reach out more to upstream to try to get them involved
<LaserJock> as they already know the software
<LaserJock> they just need the packaging bits
<LaserJock> but a lot of them are already overloaded, and I've really had very little success with getting upstreams deeply involved
<nubae> ok, why dont we try this for a testing period
<nubae> let ,e be the communicqtor
<nubae> between attrqcting talent
<nubae> i know the technics... I know the politics
<nubae> in fact I belive i would be more help ther than on strqight dev
<LaserJock> well, I understand what you're saying
<LaserJock> but what happens if we attract some people?
<LaserJock> if say a KDE dev emails the list and says "how can I help?", what do we do?
<nubae> isnt that any easy quetion to answer?
<LaserJock> no, it's not
<nubae> explqin
<nubae> fucking keyboard
<LaserJock> right now I'd have to say "go spend 6 months learning packaging and get back to me"
<nubae> wait wait wait
<nubae> their job would be to integrqte edubuntu into jde
<nubae> kde
<nubae> qlong zith plas,oids I mentioned yestereday
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> that's more a KDE thing
<LaserJock> I mean, I don't see plasmoids, etc. as really a Edubuntu-specific thing
<LaserJock> so you're talking more about people developing *for* Edubuntu, not people *developing* Edubuntu
<LaserJock> right?
<nubae> absoliutely
<nubae> does the platform matter?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> the problem is I need people actually putting Edubuntu together
<nubae> ze trying to get ,ore users... or force the, to use mostly crqp
<nubae> sugqr is another great example of thqt
<LaserJock> people writing plasmoids and stuff is great
<LaserJock> but that's a pretty upstream task
<LaserJock> though one we can certainly play a role in
<LaserJock> but if people write 30 new apps for Edubuntu and yet nobody is there to make sure the packaging is maintained, we're not in a good position
<LaserJock> I'd really like to see Edubuntu expand and offer more and more to users
<nubae> ok, maybe this is just ,y ignorance
<LaserJock> but I think our first priority needs to be making sure that the current stuff actually works
<nubae> isnt packagn the same for kde folks qs for gno,e folks?
<LaserJock> no
<nubae> hmmm
<LaserJock> it's like two different worlds :-)
<LaserJock> and that doesn't really matter
<nubae> now I get u then
<LaserJock> I don't have gnome people
<LaserJock> it's just me for everything but LTSP
<nubae> sorry debiqn/ubuntu
<LaserJock> what do you mean?
<LaserJock> is the packaging different between the two?
<nubae> no no::: I meqn differentation between kde gnome
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> well KDE packaging is fairly different
<LaserJock> it's pretty well organized and standardized though
<nubae> but cqn u guys synchro?
<LaserJock> between Debian and Ubuntu?
<nubae> well stupid auesstion::
<nubae> u do already zith kdeedu
<nubae> no kde gno,e
<LaserJock> I don't know what you'd syncronize
<nubae> fuck fuck fuck:::: killl me noz::: never ,qke ,e use q belgiqn keyboqrd again
<nubae> packaging
<LaserJock> well, they're just totally different things
<LaserJock> the thing is with most gnome apps is they have no consistency
<nubae> ok more simply... can u guys zork together to mqke q common structure?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> there's just too many things going on
<LaserJock> you'd have to coordinate a lot of people, and a lot of people will disagree
<nubae> ok... so use packagekit
<nubae> or s,qrt
<nubae> smart
<LaserJock> that doesn't help
<nubae> zork together dammit
<nubae> zork... funny
<LaserJock> ok, but that doesn't change anything
<LaserJock> gnome/kde packaging style differences is not a big deal
<nubae> yes it does... it brings a commonly focused community togethere
<nubae> more than one ltsp and gnome guy
<LaserJock> well, but it really doesn't do much
<nubae> and suddenly a bunch o f edu guys::: even getting paid for what they do
<LaserJock> packaging is done basically on a per/app basis
<nubae> so????
<LaserJock> well, so I'm not sure what  you're trying to achieve
<nubae> its community plqnning and organizing
<LaserJock> oh, well we can do that
<LaserJock> but we need a community
<nubae> we do what u stqrted... an objective, mission statement
<nubae> but one big enough where it matters ands it not just ( members at most
<nubae> I dont wanna make ya feel vad really
<LaserJock> well, I like the current doc ok
<LaserJock> for now
<nubae> I just wanna see this wonderful group of people be successful
<LaserJock> as we grow we can grow it
<LaserJock> but I don't know if you can make it much bigger without it being kinda useless
<nubae> useless
<nubae> ok? what negative ,ind set brought that on?
<nubae> sorry, I, euro; I can be a bit blunt at times
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> what I mean is, if you paint *too* large of a misson/objective it's very difficult to get down to specifics and people aren't really very focused
<LaserJock> you know what I mean?
<LaserJock> nubae: btw, do you know of any good ways to get Edubuntu disks or like the Ubuntu DVD
<nubae> how do u mean
<nubae> physically?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I got an email from a teacher in the US who is doing a workshop for ~ 100 technology coordinators from all over the world
<LaserJock> he's wondering how to get some CDs/DVDs to pass out
<LaserJock> grrr, 239 open bugs and 208 unassigned
<nubae> wai... ubuntu cds or edubuntu qddoncds?
<LaserJock> well, he says DVDs
<nubae> ok so must meqn the entire suite
<nubae> well had u asked me 2 ago
<nubae> I wass at fossdem wherer I got free cds from everyone imqginqble
<nubae> U could hqve seriously helped
<nubae> ill talk to riched if  see hi,
<nubae> him
<LaserJock> I don't know what to tell people other than to buy them online
<nubae> dude why should gcompris go in games?
<nubae> its totally a teacher app especialllcy with the ,onitoring tools
<nubae> in fqct sugar is moddeling their entire teacher ,onitoring suite on it
<LaserJock> well, because that's what it calls itself
<LaserJock> an educational game
<LaserJock> we basically do games == preschool
<nubae> ok? maybz u dont need my opinion but that just confuses
<nubae> if its edu
<nubae> put it edu
<LaserJock> well, it is in edu
<LaserJock> it's just edu -> games
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> on the installer anyway
<LaserJock> in the application menu it's split up I think
<LaserJock> gcompris is in games and the admin tool is somewhere else, maybe Other
<nubae> aha
<LaserJock> if we put everything edu in Education then it gets pretty overloaded
<nubae> not at all
<nubae> then it looks like we hqve qn edu suite
<LaserJock> no, but like 30 apps in there isn't going to do very well
<nubae> we cqn subsplit them
<LaserJock> that's what edubuntu-menus is for
<LaserJock> which we need to finish
<nubae> so what co,plicq-ate sg-shit?
<LaserJock> well, we need a GUI that runs the alacarte menu editor, then fix up the results
<nubae> or sorry are you saying iy nrrds to be done that way in the edu menu?
<LaserJock> yeah
<nubae> ok
<LaserJock> we can't change the normal menu
<LaserJock> but we can use edubuntu-menus
<nubae> y not?
<LaserJock> because Gnome just implements the XDG standard
<LaserJock> and it does so with only one level of menus
<nubae> that doesnt meqn anything to me
<LaserJock> well, essentially it means that the Applications menu is pre-determined
<LaserJock> unless you override it as we do with edubuntu-menus
<nubae> y?
<LaserJock> well, because there's a menu standard
<LaserJock> so we have to override the standard to do anything different
<nubae> so?
<LaserJock> well, so our way to do that is edubuntu-menus and we haven't finished it
<LaserJock> because we lack a GUI to allow for editing the menus
<nubae> ok
<LaserJock> hmm, I need to take edubuntu-desktop-kde off the .iso
<LaserJock> at least if we want it to be self-consistent, which I think we do
<nubae> i gotta get some sleep... but pleqse lets cntinue this conv.
<nubae> ze do
<nubae> u are totally correct
<nubae> gnight
<LaserJock> bah, why the heck is moodle installing both mysql and postgresql bits
<LaserJock> geeze, had to track it way back to apr-util
<beachsurfin> could someone please specify to me what type of thin clients could be used w/ edubuntu?
<LaserJock> it sort of depends on the server I think
<beachsurfin> wouldn't it be difficult to use blender is such a setup?
<LaserJock> beachsurfin: you might want to try #ltsp actually
<LaserJock> it probably would
<LaserJock> you'd probably want to go with a fat-client setup for that
<beachsurfin> thanks LaserJock
<marabout> LaserJock:  OK as I want to set up a network using Ubuntu for my children so I figured that was the way to go..?
<marabout> *Edubuntu rather
<LaserJock> marabout: how many machines?
<marabout> LaserJock:  I have 2-3 right now, compaq 5000US, emachine T3046, and a G3 mac tower
<marabout> LaserJock:  any insights, tips...? or I guess it is all pretty straight forward
<LaserJock> well, I just wonder if LTSP is going to be worthwile for you
<LaserJock> having 1 machine to administer rather than 3 is certainly nice
<LaserJock> but if the setup turns out to be not straightforward it might not be worth it
<LaserJock> you can *certainly* give it a shot and see if it works out for you
<LaserJock> and if it doesn't just go with non-LTSP installs
<LaserJock> marabout: and if you need some LTSP help the #ltsp channel is a great resource
<marabout> LaserJock:  Ok thanks will do. Take care
<LaserJock> have fun
<nubae> LaserJock pleqse take out the postgres mess from the moodle installer
<nubae> it makes no sense and on top of it breaks
<LaserJock> nubae: we're trying to figure that out
<LaserJock> nubae: Debian wants to take our changes
<LaserJock> but we need to figure out how to deal with the DBs
<nubae> i hace so much animosity to some of these purists
<LaserJock> well, I'm getting a lot of mixed messages here
<LaserJock> a lot of people want mysql, a lot of people don't
<LaserJock> since moodle can use either I don't see how we can lock people into just one
<nubae> we STILL dnt have libabiword co,piled into abizord (./configure --enqble-libabiword) for 8 god ddamned months
<LaserJock> welcome to my world :-)
<nubae> dont believe that... I work in the field (moodle), its what I curre"ntly get pai for
<nubae> only ever seen one postgres install and when they get that big, they figure out hoz to installl the,selves
<nubae> mysal, is plenty and used by th ! deployments I currently work with
<LaserJock> I know, but as soon as I lock into mysql I'll get all kinds of bug reports about postgresql
<LaserJock> if we can make the choosing work, we should do it
<LaserJock> if not, then we can talk about choosing one
<LaserJock> if people install via edubuntu-server they'll get postgresql and it should all work ok right now
<nubae> jeezzz fucking numbers are reveresed on begliqn keyboard... hqve to press shift plus number to get number :) 8 deps I meant
<nubae> LaserJock fqr greater gurus thqn u hqve tried (olpc for one) and gqve up
<nubae> tond give urself thqt headache plese
<nubae> dont focus on the shinny bits as Martiin Langhoff is fa,ous for saying
<LaserJock> ok, but I'm not sure I exactly have a choice here
<nubae> y the hell not?
<nubae> qho forces u to put postgres in the packages?
<nubae> qnd then cause ,oodle to fail installing
<LaserJock> well, postgresql doesn't make it fail
<LaserJock> having 2 different DBs does
<nubae> give q nqme qnd I`ll go beat them with my seaqel stick
<nubae> so then take postgres out
<LaserJock> but I think it's general policy that if a package can support multiple DBs then the packaging should as well
<nubae> it is by fqr the most unused
<nubae> qnd anyone wanting to use it knows how to instqll it believe me
<nubae> no rocket science
<nubae> Ive done it
<nubae> qnd im not even q dev
<LaserJock> I can talk with the Server Team and see what they think
<LaserJock> I'm just not sure we can drop to 1 DB
<nubae> it works like thqt zith every other distro
<nubae> lqve the dbe in, just dont codependit
<nubae> bt... did u get to see the litte utube video of the kids using the xos in graz
<nubae> check my page
<LaserJock> waht do you mean by codependent?
<nubae> i meqn instqll mysql with moodle
<nubae> make postgres qs q db availabke but not installed into moodle
<nubae> no choice
 * nubae is going to kill himself if he needs to use q belgian keyboqrd qny longer
<LaserJock> I suppose, but if you want postgresql that means you have to have mysql installed to get moodle from apt
<LaserJock> nubae: that video is pretty fun
<nubae> dude... for someone who knows how to both instqll and manage postgres; unsinstalling mysql is not too hard
<nubae> believe ,e
<nubae> me
<LaserJock> no, I mean they'd lose moodle as well
<LaserJock> so the options are:
<nubae> first deployment in Europe!
<LaserJock> 1) mysql + our moodle
<nubae> no why
<nubae> right
<LaserJock> 2) postgresql + mysql + our moodle
<nubae> no
<LaserJock> 3) postgresql + not our moodle
<nubae> that doesnt and will nevver zork
<nubae> option 3
<nubae> option 1 as defqult
<LaserJock> if mysql is a dep then if you remove it you remove moodle
<nubae> if u qre using moodle
<LaserJock> so people are stuck in one of those 3 options
<nubae> its highly unlikely ud be re,oving ,ysql
<nubae> give people some credit
<LaserJock> why?
<nubae> cquse they knoz the 2 are connected
<LaserJock> I mean, that's exactly what I'd do
<nubae> qnd if they are postgres guys
<LaserJock> so I wouldn't think it'd be *that* uncommon of a case
<nubae> they knoz how to fix q postgres install in secs
<LaserJock> ok, but that's not my point
<LaserJock> installing postgresql is not the issue, it's moodle
<nubae> ok what is?
<nubae> yes it instqlls with the default server mysql
<LaserJock> if I wanted to use postgresql I'm stuck with option 2 or 3
<LaserJock> and I suspect people mostly don't want 2)
<nubae> no::: then u usually  q highly trqined experience ad,in zho zould knoz in seconds hoz to uninstqll mysql qnd then postgres
<LaserJock> so that leaves people with not installing moodle from the archives
<nubae> there is q MASSIVE difference between the knowledge level of q postrgreser qnd and a mysqlr
<LaserJock> but not in terms of just installing moodle
<nubae> postgres is the oracle of the linux world
<LaserJock> I can just as easily choose one or the other, no diff
<nubae> its not needed
<LaserJock> other than a lot of people I know like postgres better
<LaserJock> so I usually go that route
<nubae> it causes confusion and conflicts
<LaserJock> right
<nubae> its teachers installing this stuff
<LaserJock> yep
<nubae> of course they do, they qre devs
<nubae> co talk to some teachers and ,mention posgres whatch their reaction
<LaserJock> ok, but that doesn't really matter
<LaserJock> mention mysql and you'll get a similar reaction
<nubae> yes it does::: we want ,ore educqtors using our software
<nubae> ze dont want to ,ake it co,plex and i,pÃ´ssible to install
<nubae> no u zon
<nubae> wont
<nubae> educqtors knoz wat mysql is
<nubae> cuqse its used in everything
<nubae> zithin moodle it should be possible; but a coice mqdfe by qn qdmin
<nubae> that make sense?
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but my problem is if say the IT staff say they want postgresql
<LaserJock> then the person can't use moodle from ubuntu
<nubae> then let them go ahead and do it
<nubae> its like ' lines of bqsh
<nubae> zhere is the issue?
<nubae> thats not true
<LaserJock> the issue is, the point of packaging this stuff is so that users can install it
<nubae> postgres exists qs q seperqte pqckqge
<LaserJock> I know that
<nubae> users!
<LaserJock> but if moodle depends on mysql then they're screwed
<nubae> admins instqll postgres
<nubae> users install the base
<LaserJock> users install it as well
<nubae> instqll what as well postgres?
<nubae> never
<LaserJock> they are now!
<nubae> qt least ive never seen it
<LaserJock> we default to postgresql
<LaserJock> so quite a few people are installing it
<nubae> which doesnt zork my friend
<LaserJock> postgresql works just fine
<nubae> i have q how to on my zebsite to prove it
<nubae> not zithin the moodle instqller
<LaserJock> how do you mean?
<nubae> go qheqd qnd try install moodle right now
<nubae> see what i mean
<nubae> the postgres part fails
<nubae> ive done it at least 5 times
<nubae> same result
<nubae> unless something changed of course, but I severely doubt it
<LaserJock> ah right
<LaserJock> I've got a pile of bug reports for that
<nubae> hmmmm
<LaserJock> but that's a problem with moodle's packaging I'm pretty sure
<LaserJock> not postgresql
<nubae> so what is the easizst most praxctical solution
<nubae> right
<nubae> take the ,other fucker out
<LaserJock> dude, I realize what you're saying
<LaserJock> I don't like having to worry about this stuff
<LaserJock> but I don't always get to do it the easy way
<nubae> let experienced admins choose it when they need it (1000+Â° users
<LaserJock> I'll be talking to Debian and the Server Team about it
<nubae> ok
<LaserJock> Debian was OK with using postgresql
<nubae> cool
<nubae> fuck debiqn in this cae
<LaserJock> but I'll double check
<nubae> they screwed up enough shit alreqdy
<LaserJock> well, they've really stepped up with the new maintainers
<LaserJock> who include a moodle developer
<nubae> for moodle really?
<nubae> then y u fixing the issue?
<nubae> its not a ubuntu bug
<LaserJock> because it needs to be done now
<LaserJock> well, it is, sorta
<LaserJock> we totally redid the debconf stuff
<nubae> yeah, I gqvee u workable solution
<LaserJock> well, it's not exactly an easy solution
<LaserJock> it's not bad, but not trivial either
<nubae> we do not need to 2 dbs for moodle
<nubae> ze need the most common zorkable one
<LaserJock> well, that's not exactly the traditional way we do things
<nubae> k enough nbeed to get breqkfqst, its 9 here
<LaserJock> but it may need to happen in this case
<LaserJock> I need to get to bed
<nubae> do it
<nubae> sleep my good friend
<LaserJock> I'll keep poking people about it though
<LaserJock> we'll either fix it up or go with 1
<LaserJock> the current situation isn't very good
<nubae> no it sucks
<nubae> no one installs from repos
<nubae> thqt is a big no no
<LaserJock> night
<nubae> ok sleep well
<Nubae-laptop> alkisg: u there?
<alkisg> Nubae-laptop: yup
<alkisg> (classroom break :P)
<LaserJock> nubae: I talked with one of the Debian moodle maintainers
<LaserJock> nubae: they suggested that maybe dbconfig-common could help us out
<Ahmuck> does ubuntu ltsp have a admin management user/console?
<Ahmuck> outside of sudo?
<Lns> Ahmuck: what do you mean admin management user/console?
<Ahmuck> outside of sudo.  like jr-admin
<Ahmuck> for user add, passwd, vbox managment, etc.
<ogra> since you do all that on a normal ubuntu machine, you use System->Administration usually
<ogra> vbox brings its own interface no need to duplicate that
<Ahmuck> system-admin usualy requires sudo access ?
<flyingsquirrel32> How do I modify my dhcp.conf to make my LTSP install work with a single nic?
<ogra> if your NIC IP matches the network defined in the file you dont need to modify it at all
<ogra> dont forget that ubuntu ltsp uses /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf though
<LaserJock> ogra: somehow I've managed to become part of the moodle maintainers in Debian ;-)
<ogra> wohoo
<LaserJock> ogra: they're really making a lot of improvements and they want to work with Ubuntu quite a bit
<ogra> cool !
<LaserJock> they were even linking up CVEs in LP, etc.
<ogra> i wonder if we should move moodle out of main though
<LaserJock> I wonder
<LaserJock> hmm
<ogra> that would loosen the deps
<LaserJock> we could make edubuntu-server be in Universe
<LaserJock> not worry about it on the CD
<ogra> postgres is the main DB because its in main
<LaserJock> mysql is in Main as well though isn't it?
<ogra> though there was a contract about e-s at some point
<ogra> yes, it wasnt when moodle came in though
<LaserJock> ah
<ogra> and postgres was the supported DB
<LaserJock> well, Debian suggested looking into dbconfig-common
<LaserJock> which is in Main
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> I think the big problem is the embedded libraries
<ogra> probably best is to talk to the server team to ask them what they suggest
<LaserJock> it's sort of weird, but I think getting all the deps in Main might be pretty hard
<ogra> is there still so much ?
<LaserJock> quite a few, but a lot of the packaged ones are in Universe
<ogra> shouldnt be
<LaserJock> I filed a MIR for smarty
<LaserJock> but yui would require javascript-common and wwwconfig-common
<LaserJock> not sure about the others yet
<ogra> they were in main already, just make sure you follow an advice of the security team to have them split out
<ogra> and that it was our initiative that convinced upstream
<ogra> so we have a responsibility imho
<LaserJock> well, the problem in some cases is that the packaged versions have deps we don't want
<LaserJock> in Main anyway
<ogra> wwwconfig-common is a nono
<LaserJock> even though the embedded version doesn't require them
<ogra> that needs to be worked around
<LaserJock> right, just not something I'm going to do in a weekend ;-)
<ogra> no idea about javascript-common, its the first time i see it
<LaserJock> I've seen it a few times
<ogra> our package shouldnt have any deps on wwwconfig-common
<ogra> since it entered main
<LaserJock> I know
<LaserJock> and it doesn't
<ogra> right, thats a delta we always carried
<LaserJock> the problem is that the Debian-packaged version of the embedded libs *do* dep on it
<ogra> hmm
<LaserJock> so the concern is tracking down all the maintainers for the split out libs
<LaserJock> and making sure they're not using wwwconfig-common or whatever else would cause problems
<LaserJock> so if we could drop edubunt-server and moodle to Universe for a while until we get that all figured out
<LaserJock> we could also include some other good apps like mahara
<LaserJock> I don't know if dropping it from Main would cause any issues for Canonical or not
<ogra> supportability
<LaserJock> ogra: my plan regarding embedded libs was to just do what I can and keep the internal copies of the ones I can get into Main for now
<LaserJock> for right now only smarty and yui have been split out by Debian
<LaserJock> 1 I can get into Main, the other not right now
<ogra> yeah, sounds like a good plan
<LaserJock> for Jaunty+1 we can take another look
<LaserJock> I told the Debian maintainers that we don't want wwwconfig-common
<LaserJock> and they said they'd looked over our changes to moodle and were ok with them
<LaserJock> so I'm hoping to have by Alpha 5 a almost completly syncable moodle
<ogra> cool
<flyingsquirrel32> ogra: Thanks for the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf tip. That explains things...
<Ahmuck> back
<paulgm> Is there an edubuntu livecd?  I can't find it anywhere on the site, only an addon CD for an existing ubuntu
<LaserJock> paulgm: no, there isn't a livecd
<LaserJock> paulgm: it wouldn't nearly fit
<paulgm> That's a shame.  I'd like to show this to a local library that has asked me to sort out the group of PCs they let kids play around on.
<paulgm> No chance of getting it on a DVD either?
<LaserJock> well, I'm looking at that right now
<LaserJock> the edu stuff is on the DVD
<LaserJock> but it's not "installed" in the Live part
<LaserJock> I'm trying to do it to see if it works right now
<LaserJock> darn, ran out of RAM
<LaserJock> paulgm: I think it'd work if you have enough RAM to load the stuff in
<LaserJock> paulgm: you can load the DVD, then install the Edu stuff you want
<LaserJock> paulgm: another option, if you're up for it, would be to make your own Live disk using something like Ubuntu Customization Kit (UCK)
<LaserJock> paulgm: we just don't have the resources to maintain a DVD on our own right now and the CD doesn't have nearly enough space for all the educational apps
<paulgm> Sure, I understand.  I hadn't heard about the Ubuntu Construction Kit - I'll go have a play and see what I can come up with.
<paulgm> Thanks for the help :)
<LaserJock> paulgm: no problem
<loic-m_> paulgm: you could also install first it on a usb key or an external harddrive (provided the computer support booting on USB devices, or else you swap the hd)
<LaserJock> or you can bring in a laptop
<flyingsquirrel32> How can I add screen resolutions to my ltsp client?
#edubuntu 2009-02-12
<Lns> flyingsquirrel32: look into lts.conf settings in the documentation
<LaserJock> stgraber: at some point before jaunty is released will you have time to look at the italic bugs?
<alkisg1> LaserJock: iTalc bugs? which ones, he fixed most of them...
<LaserJock> there's only 3
<alkisg1> where? https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-italc-devel
<LaserJock> alkisg1: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/italc
<LaserJock> alkisg1: you can also get those from hitting "Show package report" from the URL you gave me
<alkisg1> Ah, ok, it's just paperwork, he fixed other, more "critical" bugs :)
<LaserJock> sure, that's why I said "sometime before jaunty is released"
<alkisg1> LaserJock: when is the last date before we can send patches for bugs for jaunty?
<LaserJock> well ...
<LaserJock> depends on the bug
<alkisg1> Small ones :)
<alkisg1> No UI involved
<LaserJock> April 9th
<alkisg1> Ah, ok, I'll be waiting for the beta then before installing it :)
<alkisg1> Ty!
<LaserJock> what!
<LaserJock> you can't do that! :-)
<LaserJock> we need testers *before* we can no longer fix things :-)
<LaserJock> well, I guess Beta gives us 2 weeks
<alkisg1> I tried the alpha, but it doesn't work well in my laptop - no touchpad :(
<LaserJock> Kubuntu or Ubuntu?
<alkisg1> both
<LaserJock> hmm, Kubuntu was having some problems with that
<LaserJock> Ubuntu though has been doing ok for me that way
<alkisg1> And all my personal files are there, so I'll have major problems with data loss... :O
<LaserJock> meh, backups ;-)
<LaserJock> I keep all my data on a separate partition, and back up that partition decently often
<alkisg1> Nah... backups are for people that don't like risks :)
<alkisg1> (or are not as bored of them as I) :P
<LaserJock> but I blow away installs fairly often
<LaserJock> I usually keep 2 OSs on my laptop and reinstall them every couple months
<alkisg1> I usually have the latest + the previous ubuntu version in my laptop, and ~30 other OSes in vmware/virtualbox etc
<LaserJock> I have latest + development and I don't have enough room for that many VMs :-)
<alkisg1> Heh... win95a/dsl/delilinux etc only need ~100mb
<LaserJock> I've got a XP partition (only Windows in the house) that 16GB
<LaserJock> and then several ~5 GB linux VMs
<alkisg1> Fortunately my laptop hd is 250Gb... otherwise I'd have to use an external one all the time
<highvoltage> 12300 ilab3     20   0  4352  1504  1068 S  0.0  0.0  0:00.00 bash -c echo LTSPROCKS; /bin/sh -
<highvoltage> ^^^ is that normal or is someone playing tricks on me?
<ogra> thats the sentinel the first ssh connection (the one not forwarding X ) sets
 * nubae2 waves to the German speaking ally
<ogra> guten morgen nubae2 :)
<alkisg1> Good morning all, hey nubae2, were you looking for me yesterday?
<nubae2> i was alkisg1
<nubae2> but cannot for the world rem,ember why
<nubae2> something to do with ltsp on kde
<alkisg1> Hm... I tried Kubuntu jaunty yesterday, the kernel has problems with my touchpad...
<alkisg1> ...so I think I'll try it later on, maybe when it's beta
 * ogra hopes alkisg1 filed a bug :)
<alkisg1> ogra: nope :-D Filed another one for filezilla which corrupted ~2000 of my files, though... :P
<alkisg1> nubae2: why don't the logs at #ltsp work?
<alkisg1> nubae2: and I talked to pitt about system-config-user and users-admin... He told me that there's a try for a new user management tool in fedora: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-May/msg00006.html
<nubae2> ah shit again?
<nubae2> ok, gonna move the bot to another server
<nubae2> its even cronned and everything
<nubae2> but think the idiotic sysadmins at godaddy caught on
<nubae2> I have to log #sugar now too anyway
<nubae2> hmmm... why do I get this with sudo (and fix please): udo: /var/run/sudo owned by uid 1000, should be uid 0
<alkisg1> Don't know, why don't you try deleting it with `gksu gnome-terminal` ?
<nubae2> alkisg1: logs fixed
<nubae2> not sure why they werent updating... anway we didnt loose them, they just werent getting to the page
<alkisg1> Ah, good
<nubae2> @locate alkigs1
<nubae2> @blog gr alkisg
 * alkisg doesn't have properties "locate" or "blog", try again...
<alkisg> :P
<nubae2> dfoh were not in ltsp
<nubae2> of course bot wont respond
<Ahmuck> is there a way to print out ttf font styles on a spec sheet that is in the ubuntu system?
<alkisg> Ahmuck: huh? You mean a list of the ttf fonts in the system, rendered with the fonts themselves?
<Ahmuck> yes
<Ahmuck> something i could look at for font representation
<Ahmuck> for scribus, and DTP
<alkisg> Well, I don't know if any easier way exists, but you could make a very simple script that would produce an .html file with all your fonts, which you would then open with firefox
<Ahmuck> i was thinking the same thing
<alkisg> And I think I have some code to generate a .pdf from python, using a specific font
<alkisg> Ahmuck: see `man fc-list` for an easy way to get the installed font list
<Ahmuck> have you seen a application that would allow the creation of ttf fonts from someone's handwriting ?
<Ahmuck> http://www.webpagepublicity.com/free-fonts-a2.html#FreeFonts
<alkisg> I've heard of such applications, but I haven't tried any of them. And I think there was also a free web service for this.
<Ahmuck> is ttf creation really that hard?
<Ahmuck> it would seem to me it's a matter of creating a svg gallery of fonts
<Ahmuck> and then inputing them into key signatures
<Ahmuck> forgive my terminology
<alkisg> To create a font from scratch? Yeah, it's really hard!
 * Ahmuck gets out wacom bamboo and writes - new font
<Ahmuck> via inkscape for svg font types, and then convert to ttf
<Ahmuck> ?
<alkisg> Well, a typographer would need some months to create a new font... I don't know how quickly you could do it. :)
<alkisg> It's not only about drawing the letters; kerning, hinting etc take a _lot_ of time
<Ahmuck> my question is why?
<Ahmuck> why months ?
<Ahmuck> that i understand, but what is a font really
<alkisg> Because it takes 1 hour for each letter? :)
<Ahmuck> it's a fancy letter
<alkisg> Yeah, but you have to draw the points exactly
<Ahmuck> and a handwriting font (someones handwriting) would only require they write two or three samples
<Ahmuck> which then put in for a==a, etc.
<Ahmuck> it may seem i'm over simplyfing things, but from my perspective, it seems simple
<alkisg> Ahmuck: apt-get install fontographer and try it :)
<alkisg> E.g. you may draw a letter, but when you try to use it at 12 points it may not draw well, so you have to move it, modify the line width etc
<alkisg> And if you draw "a" and then "i" and you put them side by side and they're too far apart, you have to fix that. And not only for a specific size, for all sizes.
<alkisg> And there are > 65000 characters to draw for a unicode font...
<Ahmuck> ah
<alkisg> And a lot of variations for the same letter or for letter combinations
<Ahmuck> alkisg: what do u do?
<Ahmuck> ? do u do ?
<Ahmuck> heh
<Ahmuck> ?doudo?
<alkisg> Ahmuck: I'm a teacher
<Ahmuck> science, math, computer ?
<alkisg> computers, in kids 12-18 years old
<LaserJock> awesome
<LaserJock> alkisg: do you teach any programming then?
<alkisg> Yeah, sometimes pascal, c, or basic, and mostly a greek programming language for which i've also build an ide/interpreter
<LaserJock> alkisg: any Python?
<alkisg> No, we don't teach python in greece. Shame, I know, it's a fine language
<LaserJock> it is a shame
<LaserJock> you could do some basic pyqt stuff fairly easily
<alkisg> Sure, and it would be easier to teach, the kids would be interested in this
<Ahmuck> i'd like to see a python learning enviroment such as alice, though i'm not into 3d
<LaserJock> emacs is no good? :-)
<nubae2> vi is better
<nubae2> :p
<nubae2> LaserJock: around?
<nubae2> Lns: ?
<LaserJock> nubae2: am now
<nubae2> ah cool
<nubae2> I need to run a vm for Jaunty debugging/testing
<nubae2> I heard vbox is having problems
<nubae2> u recommend kvm?
<nubae2> and which jaunty... a daily build?
<LaserJock> I'm using vbox and haven't had any problems really
<LaserJock> nubae2: you could start with Alpha 4
<LaserJock> nubae2: also starting next week we need to test the Ubuntu DVD
 * ogra comforts LaserJock 
<ogra> make sure to rsync daily else the downloads get huge
<LaserJock> ogra: did you see the change cjwatson made?
<ogra> nope ?
<ogra> i only see dmraid related work from him today
<LaserJock> I asked him about the DVD d-i installer
<ogra> ah
<LaserJock> it was being preseeded so that it only installed the normal Ubuntu install
<LaserJock> so he took out the preseeding so that tasksel pops up
<nubae2> the vbox problems I heard about were sugar related, which I need to run too inside the vm
<LaserJock> so I *think* you should be able to select the Edubuntu tasks and get a Edubuntu install all in one go
<LaserJock> nubae2: ah, then if you can run kvm I'd go for that
<LaserJock> I can't on my laptop so I use vbox
<LaserJock> ogra: I also filed a bug about LTSP not being in the F4 menu on the DVD
<LaserJock> nubae2: should I write an email to -devel with details on what and how to test?
<nubae2> maybe yeah, others will want to do the same
<nubae2> also, alternate or desktop?
<ogra> nubae2, alternate or DVD
<ogra> there is no edubunti live anymore (which would be desktop)
<ogra> *edubuntu
<LaserJock> if the DVD thing works out it might be a really a nice system
<LaserJock> -a
<nubae2> ok, Ill try dvd then
<nubae2> or are u saying in a week?
<LaserJock> after Saturday
<LaserJock> that's when the next DVD will be built with the change
<nubae2> so for now?
<nubae2> alternate
<LaserJock> sure
<nubae2> gosh, u still need that list of universe apps from me dont u?
<LaserJock> it'd be handy
<nubae2> oh, btw.... things became really really heated with sugar/debian/ubuntu cooperation
<LaserJock> oh?
<nubae2> so basically ubuntu has now officially forked from debian
<LaserJock> good grief
<nubae2> yeah... if u read the emails some would make u cry
<nubae2> u know Jonas?
<LaserJock> perhaps
<nubae2> Smordgard
<nubae2> debian packager
<LaserJock> yeah
<nubae2> and holger levsen
<LaserJock> yep
<nubae2> well, as u probably know Jonas is not the easiest person to deal with
<nubae2> from what I hear
<nubae2> just rumours, and from what I've seen in response to my mails
<nubae2> so anyway, u know about the abiword issue
<LaserJock> sure
<nubae2> basically its ./configure --enable-libabiword and we have a lot of things suddenly fixed in sugar
<nubae2> well, Jonas will not do anything but stick to releasing 0.82
<nubae2> for lenny
<LaserJock> right
<nubae2> and holger suggested something in between
<nubae2> which errupted into a little flame war
<nubae2> he then went on to call ubuntu a fork
<nubae2> and that we really dont know how to do packaging and dont understand debian policy
<nubae2> etc etc
<nubae2> so in the end David Farning wrote an official email stating that due to the political status quo, it was best to go our own ways and merge to experimental when the time comes
<nubae2> just so u know :-)
<ogra> which holger ?
<ogra> levsen ?
<nubae2> yup
<ogra> grmpf ...
<nubae2> nice guy
<nubae2> holger
<nubae2> I met him at fossdem
<ogra> yeah, he is
<nubae2> and he got some real grief from Jonas man...
<ogra> he was the first person every showing me ltsp :)
<nubae2> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 03:37:15PM +0100, Holger Levsen wrote:
<nubae2> what I build.
<nubae2> Please stop posting noise that can be mistaken as invitation to break
<nubae2> >please relax...
<nubae2> the second part was Jonas
<nubae2> after holger had already been attacked and just quietly asked to relax
<nubae2> amazing...
<nubae2> so thats that... I guess that means abiword is also forked
<nubae2> and all its deps
<nubae2> its weird cause Holger seemed such a calm relaxed, just totally chilled out guy... and he was being attacked... made no sense
<LaserJock> nubae2: where is that happening?
<nubae2> iaep list
<LaserJock> I checked debian-olpc-devel and didn't see anything
<nubae2> its all sugar related
<nubae2> its an education project list
<nubae2> acutally u should probably subscribe, if u have the time
<nubae2> its a very wide circle of educators
<nubae2> I feel kinda bad, cause I started the entire thread... and it ended being 51 answers and forks of those emails
<nubae2> jeez
<nubae2> Hi,
<nubae2> regards,
<nubae2> thats all holder said...
<nubae2> alioth gito repos.)
<nubae2> (I'd be happy to sponsor if someone provides those packages as branch in the
<nubae2> it in unstable...
<nubae2> holger
<nubae2> we could prepare sugar 0.83 (or 0.84) in experimental, as long as we dont want
 * nubae2 sighs
<LaserJock> well, it doesn't look at bad as it sounded
<LaserJock> right now is a good time for Ubuntu to leap forward
<nubae2> all I said was, look sugar doesnt work on ubuntu, we cant include it in jaunty in its current state
<LaserJock> but surely once Lenny is out Debian will be looking at what Ubuntu's been doing
<nubae2> 50% doesnt work... and the packagers responsible have no interest in doing anything but their git way
<nubae2> freezing everyone else from moving forwards
<nubae2> Lenny is now offficially to be released 14th
<LaserJock> well, I think you need to kinda calm down a bit if you can
<nubae2> holger at least confirmed this
<LaserJock> it's going to take quite some work to get everything working
<nubae2> oh, I am... now we can actually work
<LaserJock> and is not a Lenny deal
<nubae2> but as it stood.... nothing was going to change until lenny+1
<nubae2> when would that be?
<LaserJock> the 15th
<nubae2> funny guy
<nubae2> :p
<LaserJock> no, I'm serious
<nubae2> its the 14th
<nubae2> and im talking lenny +1
<LaserJock> on the 15th lenny+1 (called squeeze) starts
<nubae2> oh
<nubae2> i mean stable release
<LaserJock> so that's when we can get everything moving
<nubae2> u know what i mean
<LaserJock> we don't care about what's in their stable release
<LaserJock> only unstable
<nubae2> i know
<LaserJock> lenny is just currently blocking most movement in Debian
<nubae2> i was more talking about debian's sugar release
<LaserJock> so once that roadblock is released then we can sync up again
<nubae2> not just debian though so many other upstream projects
<nubae2> I mean I get it, I do... the stability and everything... but newer projects really really suffer because of that
<LaserJock> yep, that's the way it works
<LaserJock> it's a balancing act
 * nubae2 is still learning the politics of it all
<nubae2> and boy is there a lot of that
<LaserJock> so has somebody filed a bug in Debian to split out libabiword?
<nubae2> i guess the sugar ubuntu team will be hard at work tomorrow doing that
<LaserJock> filing the bug?
<nubae2> bugs
<nubae2> whole of sugar is splitting off
<LaserJock> nah, nah
<nubae2> we move to 0.83/0.84, they stay at 0.82
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but that's not unusual
<LaserJock> but what about abiword?
<nubae2> http://luke.faraone.cc/2009/02/forking-sugar-from-debian/
<LaserJock> this is kinda rediculous
<LaserJock> I don't see a reason for all this
<nubae2> the reason is that one guy is stopping sugar from progressing if this isnt done this way
<nubae2> we're supposed to be a team
<LaserJock> he can't stop you
<LaserJock> it's git!
<LaserJock> that's the wonderful part of distributed revision control
<nubae2> but he has... its been 8 months with the same crap
<LaserJock> no, no, no
<LaserJock> hang on
<LaserJock> you have a git repo
<LaserJock> you guys can make a branch for Jaunty
<LaserJock> with 0.84
<nubae2> on ubuntu yes
<nubae2> forking
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> forking is when you no longer merge
<LaserJock> you guys *should* merge once Lenny is out
<LaserJock> you're just moving ahead for a time for Jaunty
<nubae2> but the main package maintainer doesnt want to
<LaserJock> but that is *not* a fork
<nubae2> he alrready calls it a fork
<LaserJock> he wants 0.84 after Lenny is released, right?
<nubae2> not until he decides its stable, no
<LaserJock> ok, well fine
<LaserJock> but whenever that is
<LaserJock> so there's no reason why you can't create a 0.84 branch
<LaserJock> to get everything ready
<nubae2> but thats exactly what holger suggested
<nubae2> and was blocked
<nubae2> its the reason for the fork
<LaserJock> well, i don't know that it really was blocked
<LaserJock> I thought he blocked parallel uploads
<LaserJock> does Jona refuse to let anybody create a 0.84 branch in git?
<LaserJock> Jonas
<nubae2> I believe it is more important to have a full core set of Sugar packages
<nubae2> packages. But we are not there yet!
<nubae2> Certainly it is best to have multiple fully working full sets of Sugar
<nubae2> half-baked sets of packages that does not work fully.
<nubae2> that actually works (even if not the very newest), than multiple
<nubae2> >Couldn't we simply clone the current "stable" tree and import later
<LaserJock> ok, but that doesn't answer my question
<nubae2> packaging!
<nubae2> Current source handling is already too complex: Noone except me is
<nubae2> >releases into that, no extra software changes needed?
<nubae2> I guess it requires some more upstream debain packagers to get involved
<nubae2> I dunno
<nubae2> but its the right decision imho to move forwards and whenever its decided its not experimental anymore (0.84) actually merge again
<LaserJock> right, but you can work in the same git repo
<LaserJock> same team
<LaserJock> instead it's all "we're forking!"
<LaserJock> which is not a great community builder
<nubae2> right right, I strongly argued against that
<nubae2> but Jonas wants to use topgit
<nubae2> and only that
<nubae2> we are a team, and we'd like to help, but if only he can push changes, what's the point of keeping the status quo?
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure you guys could work it out, but I'll leave that alone
<LaserJock> it's git, he doesn't have to be involved
<LaserJock> but the issue now is how to get anything going in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> does the sugar team have any MOTUs?
<LaserJock> are they talking with Xubuntu?
<nubae2> I can send u the email stream if u want, its 51 responses... but its just silly at this point... whats been explained to me, and I dont know enough about this stuff to comment is that he doesnt want to loose the power to control the sugar releases
#edubuntu 2009-02-13
<nubae2> no, no motus
<LaserJock> I found the archive of the email
<nubae2> enjoy :-)
<LaserJock> my point is he doesn't have to do anything
<nubae2> hes the only package manager
<LaserJock> that doesn't *matter*
<LaserJock> that's what I'm trying to get at
<LaserJock> he's irrelevant
<nubae2> how would we then get our packages into debian?
<LaserJock> you *don't*
<nubae2> right, thats a fork
<LaserJock> *no*
<nubae2> ok, maybe I dont get the politics of this then...
<LaserJock> you can work in the Debian git repo in a 0.84 branch
<LaserJock> and *nothing* is uploaded to Debian
<LaserJock> Ubuntu just takes the git branch and uploads to Ubuntu
<LaserJock> later on when Jonas decides he wants to upload 0.84 to Debian he can do that
<LaserJock> but it's the same team, no forking
<LaserJock> it's the same git, etc.
<nubae2> well, Jonas will do his thing
<nubae2> and we will do ours
<nubae2> so who knows what happens later on down the line
<LaserJock> ok, well whatever, I'll be quiet :-)
<nubae2> but yeah hopefully there will be some civil merging
<LaserJock> but how are you guys going to get Sugar fixed up?
<nubae2> for one, by packaging abiword with libabiword
<nubae2> fixing evince
<nubae2> and alll the packages that depend on those
<LaserJock> any new package should ideally be uploaded *today* btw
<LaserJock> so who's going to do libabiword?
<LaserJock> that's not a trivial change
<nubae2> I see what u mean... but I only know the people involved... I'm not gonna take responsibility for messing something this major up
<LaserJock> right, I'm just saying
<LaserJock> this stuff needs to get figured out ASAP
<nubae2> morgan is probably the right person to do it
<LaserJock> because, like I said, it should've been done by today
<nubae2> luke has been doing a lot of it, but he's not as experienced
<nubae2> the fork was announced about 45 minutes ago
<nubae2> whatcha want us to do?
<nubae2> the problem is the amount of deps abiword needs
<LaserJock> find somebody to get the packaging work done
<nubae2> its a true pain in the ass
<LaserJock> this is why Sugar needs to work on getting some devs going
<nubae2> hmmm.... I can think of one person
<nubae2> :-)
<LaserJock> Xubuntu needs to be consulted
<nubae2> look dont worry about it, we're anyway all focused on 0.83/0.84 and its major list of bugs
<nubae2> libabiword thing is just one of many
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but I'm not exactly sure libabiword is gonna make it
<nubae2> and what has xubuntu got to do with this?
<LaserJock> so ...
<LaserJock> Xubuntu is the usual maintainer of abiword
<nubae2> ah
<LaserJock> they have the most experience with the package
<nubae2> cause it comes in their main
<nubae2> gotcha
<LaserJock> and they would also be affected by any changes
<LaserJock> you don't want to go screwing their package up right before a Freeze ;-)
<nubae2> darn,.... when's feature freeze?
<LaserJock> next thursday
<nubae2> ok, well we'll sort it by then
<LaserJock> generally that's when they stop processing the queu
<LaserJock> +e
<nubae2> yeah well this wouldnt be the first exception
<nubae2> anyway, dude, u have enough to worry about with edubuntu
<LaserJock> well, Feature Freeze may *not* apply, I don't know
<nubae2> it was already decided nto to include in jaunty
<LaserJock> it's the same source and upstream version
<nubae2> so... leave this issue to someone else man
<LaserJock> but a new binary
<nubae2> welll a binary is easy
<LaserJock> if you're not familiar with library packaging it can be a real pain
<LaserJock> and it'll have to go through NEW
<LaserJock> and since the debdiff has been rejected once already it's important to get another shot going soon
<nubae2> LaserJock: u're taking this too personal man, let someone else take this one on
<nubae2> its not on your shoulders
<nubae2> or mine
<nubae2> basically, Jonas started attacking the competency of ubuntu devs themselves
<nubae2> etc etc
<LaserJock> sure, I know the usual thing
<LaserJock> but given that, you now have 0 Debian help
<nubae2> nah thats not true
<nubae2> we have holger
<LaserJock> so I'm just trying to give some advice on making sure this thing makes it in Jaunty
<nubae2> who more than wants to help
<nubae2> what makes it into Jaunty?
<nubae2> sguar?
<nubae2> sugar?
<LaserJock> a decently working sugar
<LaserJock> vorian has really been helping
<nubae2> well, its 2 real big ones that need to be fixed, abiword, and evince
<LaserJock> you all need to give him some major props as he's a KDE guy
<nubae2> tomeu is working on evince
<LaserJock> right, but the problem is I've seen fixes for both of those rejected already
<nubae2> and morgan/lfaraone will work on libabiword
<LaserJock> and you're talking about pretty core apps
<nubae2> by who?
<nubae2> Jonas?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> both tomeu and lfaraone's initial tries
<nubae2> can i have a look at the links
<LaserJock> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/320440
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 320440 in abiword "Sugar needs abiword built with libabiword" [Medium,In progress]
<nubae2> I feel - and that needs to be coordinated with Debian.
<nubae2> so it was a Jonas issue
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> it was rejected because it was a bad patch
<LaserJock> so dholbach suggested working with Debian as lfaraone didn't seem to understand library packaging well
<nubae2> ok, let me have a chat with lfaraone
<nubae2> and find out what we can do
<nubae2> right that was the attack from Jonas, who refused to help him
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> Jonas is not *any* part of that bug
<LaserJock> now, if you can convince Masayuki Hatta to do the split in abiword right after lenny is release you might have a shot at it
<nubae2> I'm not saying he was
<nubae2> Im saying, that when he asked Jonas to help him with it, he was flatly told, u dont know enough about the technical stuff in git to get involved
<LaserJock> otherwise you need to get somebody in Ubuntu to do it right and convince Xubuntu and a Core Dev that it's a good idea
<nubae2> Im talking with luke about that right now
<nubae2> man.... politics
<LaserJock> considering abiword's history I think it's unlikely that we'll want to do it
<nubae2> if this is how its its gonna be every time....
<LaserJock> abiword used to be forked from Debian and it was a giant pain
<nubae2> we aint got a choice in the matter
<LaserJock> it's unlikely people will want to do it again unless Debian has at least said they're going to do it at some point
<nubae2> well, holger said he'd take it over
<nubae2> thats fine isnt it?
<LaserJock> take over what?
<nubae2> maintaining it
<vorian> LaserJock: it's really no problem at all, just poke me if/when you guys need help :)
<LaserJock> nubae2: abiword?
<nubae2> yes.... but vorian^^^ what kinda help are u offering :D
<LaserJock> nubae2: you can't just hijack people's packages, I doubt that's what he meant anyway
<LaserJock> nubae2: holger doesn't maintain abiword so he's really not allowed to upload something like this
<LaserJock> but perhaps he just meant offering a patch to the current maintainers
<LaserJock> but it's still all rather late
<LaserJock> oh well
<nubae2> look, if u read the entire thread, u'll see how truly uncivil it all became
<LaserJock> I'm just gonna have to say "not my problem" and let morgs, et. al take care of it
<LaserJock> right, I understand
<LaserJock> but Jonas doesn't matter
<nubae2> a little bit of help was asked for to get the problem fixed once and for all, but it was stated by certain debian people that they would only work with 0.82
<LaserJock> the question is how to go about getting things done for Jaunty
<nubae2> right
<nubae2> me... I'm fixing this by making a sugar on a stick and compiling abiword with libabiword from source
<nubae2> that will work for me and my schools
<nubae2> this is the latest luke email to jonas, which I think seems fine: Ubuntu will sync their changes back to Debian as soon as we can; that is, as soon as Sugar releases its next stable version. Which brings up a related question: are "beta" and "Release Candidate"s considered stable enough for Debian inclusion in your opinion?
<nubae2> the issue here is, there is no point, and nobody will, work on 0.82 in the sugar team
<nubae2> its just not gonna happen
 * nubae2 wishes he had more time and was a faster learner so he could fix this himself, but hes not...
<LaserJock> well, splitting abiword wouldn't take much time
<LaserJock> doing all the paperwork and making sure all relevant parties are happy will
<nubae2> i know, hence my own little solution :-)
<nubae2> u know... fedora doesnt have this problem
<nubae2> they happily managed to advance to a quite acceptable version in a matter of weeks
<nubae2> what a sad state of affairs
 * nubae2 breathes a little lighter....
<LaserJock> well, Fedora does a lot of things well
<LaserJock> but other things not so well
<LaserJock> they seem fairly interested in OLPC stuff
<nubae2> yup, but clearly in this situ.... no politics were involved
<nubae2> they just went and did the work
<LaserJock> well, that's good and bad
<LaserJock> we have politics because we have a lot of people all collaborating and depending on each other
<LaserJock> Fedora doesn't have to work with derivatives and quite a lot of their stuff is managed through Red Hat
<LaserJock> so it tends to be more "this is how we're gonna do it" rather than "how are we gonna do it?"
<nubae2> Fedora has derivates too
<nubae2> maybe not such big ones
<LaserJock> not like our relationship with Debian really
<nubae2> but still, Im sure they have their own political battles, but it just seems from this recent experience like something went big time wrong
<nubae2> and I wonder how I (we) can learn from it
<LaserJock> well, it's somewhat common when a strong player in Debian is nasty
<LaserJock> and it always comes out at release time
<LaserJock> the problem is always going to be incompatible objectives and timelines
<LaserJock> I dont think it's particularly wise to work on Ubuntu via Debian
<LaserJock> if Ubuntu people want to work on Debian, awesome. but they have to remember they are working on Debian, not Ubuntu
<nubae2> yeah well it always seemed like it was 2 times the power
<nubae2> but in times like this it seems the opposite :-)
<LaserJock> heh, yeah
<nubae2> I guess the bsd distros go through similar stuff
<nubae2> cause of their hierarchy
<nubae2> I actually bought back like 15 distro cds from fossdem (free copies of course) so I'm curious to see where they're all at now
<nubae2> the ubuntu ones were gone on the first day in under 2 hours
<nubae2> was funny
<LaserJock> it is
<nubae2> and gentoo had its own hand written no labels cds
<LaserJock> because they're the easiest to download
<nubae2> mandriva had the coolest looking case by far
<nubae2> and then there were like 8 different bsd derivs (pcbsd,
<nubae2> and ll its clones
<nubae2> forget the names now
<nubae2> but basically just all freebsd
<nubae2> there were some really interesting xmpp talks
<nubae2> a whole day of different xmpp apps
<nubae2> was impressive
<LaserJock> well, I think I'm gonna maybe send out an email with the things I'm doing for Jaunty
<LaserJock> and the rest are just gonna have to be up for grabs
<LaserJock> I've talked some various devs and they've been encouraging about just asking the developer community for help
<nubae2> oh yeah...
<nubae2> I have the kde contact details here for u
<nubae2> for the guys who really wanted to be involved with edubuntu
<nubae2> u want tel too? or just email?
<LaserJock> email is good
<nubae2> Jos Poortvliet (jospoortvliet@kde.org)
<nubae2> he seemed to know what was the current state of affairs of the apps quite well and showed me some plasmoid magic...
<nubae2> from the Netherlands
<nubae2> also, he showed me the new kstars
<nubae2> which is actually starting to rival celestia
<nubae2> git-buildpackage is what exactly?
<LaserJock> nubae2: it helps you build source packages from a git repo
<LaserJock> and with that I've gotta run
<nubae2> mornin alkisg
<alkisg> Hey nubae2, what's up?
<alkisg> You're a morning type too, heh? :)
<nubae2> well sometimes a all nighter type
<nubae2> but usually morning yeah
<nubae2> it all depends
<nubae2> u know the way it is... if u get into something u sometimes cant stop
<alkisg> Yeah, I know... Not being able to sleep after 7:00 am is a curse :(
<nubae2> hey whats ure email again?
<nubae2> I have something that will make u crack up... email from debian maintainers concerning sugar :-)
<nubae2> and what bad people ubuntu guys really are
<alkisg> Heh... alkisg at gmail
<nubae2> quite unbelievable actually
<nubae2> It was the 56 or 57th message in the thread that I ended up having been stupid enough to start
<nubae2> causing a fork from debian
<nubae2> ahh man, what a day/night
 * alkisg reads...
<nubae2> and the only thing i did was ask for help
<alkisg> Oh no you're gonna start a schism :D
<alkisg> People will remember you as the guy who started the war :P
<nubae2> jeez... the guy is just nuts though
<nubae2> hes flamed everyone on sugar and ubuntu
<alkisg> The bad thing with the internet is that this guy could be a 12 year old kid...
<nubae2> yeah, I fear not
<alkisg> Anyway gotta get my kids to school. guten Morgen :)
<nubae> go for it ;-)
<nubae> moaning
<nubae> ooof.. no afternoon already
<jaggedaloc> Hey room...  anyone have any knowledge of the edubuntu remix for the Classmate 2go PC?
<jaggedaloc> I'm wondering if it ever went further than Release Canidate stage.
<nubae> ogra would be the one to ask for that
<ogra> i'm not working on that anymore, our OEM team works with intel directly now, which means intel controls where or how (or if at all) the image gets published
<ogra> my work on it ended with what you find on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/classmate/images/hardy/
<jaggedaloc> thanks
<jaggedaloc> ogra: Opinion -- should I try Ubuntu Netbook Remix?
<ogra> sure, you can do that
<ogra> afaik thats what the new classmate image will be based on as well
<jaggedaloc> thanks one million
 * nubae waves
<LaserJock> hi nubae
<nubae> hey... so u missed the email that got the jackpot
<nubae> from yesterday
<nubae> I didnt respond anymore, because it was just incredible.... I showed alkisg this morning he was lol
<nubae> it just got so personal, i was adviced by more mature people on the list to just not even answer anymore, because it became a straight out, ubuntu is crap and it has caused debian to die kinda thread
<nubae> so I just read the email, mouth open a little, and then left it at that... anyway, on to more practical things
<nubae> Spoke to morgan and Lfaraone today
<LaserJock> nubae: and any progress made?
<nubae> jut to bring this back public, in case others read...
<nubae> I believe he wants to test it himself first
<nubae> right I understand
<LaserJock> np
<LaserJock> just as soon as you can
<LaserJock> get it up there for review
<LaserJock> how's evince?
<nubae> ill make sure it gets to u?
<nubae> also supposedly fixed
<LaserJock> has it been uploaded?
<nubae> and nm problem, which was really a regression
<nubae> well its all in their ppas i believe
<LaserJock> I hate to beat a dead horse, but it's not fixed until it's in the archive
<nubae> they really should pass it on to motu
<LaserJock> MOTU isn't sufficent
<LaserJock> it has to be Core Dev
<nubae> ok, so pass it to you then?
<LaserJock> well, I can look at it, but evince should go to Desktop Team
<LaserJock> and abiword should likely go to Xubuntu
<nubae> ok im still unsure of the flow of packages and maybe they are too or maybe not
<nubae> ill make sure to find out though
<nubae> i have to go eat, bbiab
<LaserJock> if you need a "does this seem reasonable" I can certainly look at the patches
<LaserJock> but you generally should go to the people most affected by the changes
<LaserJock> generally the Desktop Team takes care of Gnome and Xubuntu takes care of gnumeric & abiword
<nubae> right, we'll (or I'll if it is just me) learn that process as quickly as I can
<LaserJock> any core dev *can* upload it, but it's nice to get the most relevant team
<Lns> Hey all
<LaserJock> hi Lns
<Lns> Anyone know why, when editing moinmoin (ubuntu) wiki, and putting in a bash script #!/bin/bash (in a code block), it takes it out when viewing it? Any way to show it?
<Lns> hey LaserJock =)
<LaserJock> well, # is a macro definition in moin
<nubae> whats the delimiter again?
<LaserJock> I don't know offhand how you escape that
<Lns> it just started doing that recently afaik
<nubae> backslash?
<alkisg> Lns:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NautilusScriptsHowto
<alkisg> There's an example there, see the code
<alkisg> Search for /bin/bash
<Lns> alkisg: thanks!! looks like you just have to indent that line
<nubae> hmm really?
<nubae> thats easy then
<Lns> of course that leaves space when people want to copy/paste
<LaserJock> an I hate doing MIRs :/
 * nubae is gonna get that list of universe apps to LaserJock tonight
<Lns> For anyone wondering what i've been up to, here ya go: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AutomatedTCStartup
<nubae> hmmm your pages get prettier and prettier :p
<LaserJock> nubae: yeah, we're not going to get anything into Main it looks like so we should try to do the best we can with Universe
<Lns> nubae: prettier? =p
<nubae> and that way we can get some feedback on the apps too
<nubae> ofr Jaunty+1
<LaserJock> nubae: yeah, exactly
<nubae> Lns: yes, nicer looking
<LaserJock> it will give a much easier way to push things into Main as well, I think
<alkisg> Hey, CategoryLtsp? :)
<Lns> nubae: haha..thanks!
<LaserJock> so you have "General Universe" -> "Edubuntu Universe" -> "Edubuntu Main"
<Lns> alkisg: yup =) that's in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLtspTemplate
<nubae> whats the state of sabayon now btw, wasnt following that much
<alkisg> Wow, someone's been reading the moinmoin docs... :)
<nubae> who's in the mood for some quick regexp bashisms?
<LaserJock> nubae: well, sabayon hasn't changed :/
<nubae> oh, I thought it was kinda fixed
<LaserJock> well, we found some bugs
<LaserJock> but you fix one and another pops up, and so on
<nubae> ah right
<Lns> "If at first you don't succeed, call it v1.0"
<alkisg> Has anyone used prism? I'm trying to bundle into .debs some flash/html educational applications...
<LaserJock> I've used it before
<alkisg> LaserJock: succesfully? had any problems?
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> I didn't end up using it a ton
<LaserJock> as I just open up tabs for the apps I'd be using anyway
<alkisg> Yeah, for experienced users it's not really useful, I was thinking about the young students...
<LaserJock> yeah, seems like it would be awesome
<Ahmuck> Lns: call it ME.  and if you don't suceed the second time, call it Vista
<Lns> Ahmuck: ha
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: and if it doesn't work a third time switch two whole numbers
<LaserJock> s/two/to/
<nubae> http://zim-wiki.org/
<Lns> nubae: oo, looks like tomboy notes. I like "sticky notes" for their simplicity in design, but wish it had note linking
<Lns> tomboy notes is a bit much for me
#edubuntu 2009-02-14
<nubae2> wann geht ihr eigentlich schifahr3en losss?
<nubae2> David
<nubae2> hmmm.... oops
<nubae2> clearly that was meant for a private msg, I apologize
<alkisg> I'm packaging a flash-based educational application (english language lessons) into a deb. The application doesn't have any version number, what's a valid version number to give it? 1.0-1ubuntu1 ?
<alkisg> (in the DEBIAN/control file)
<loic-m> 1.0-0ubuntu1 if it's not in Debian (XubuntuY where X is Debian revision, 0 when it doesn't come from a package in Debian)
<alkisg> Thanks a lot loic-m :)
<loic-m> you're welcome
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you gonna be around this weekend at all?
#edubuntu 2009-02-15
<nothingman> hi, all
<Ahmuck-Sr> someone want to correct the last e-mail that came from the list ?
<head_> Hello.
<Nubae-laptop> oh man.... has an
<Nubae-laptop> anyone used opensuse lately?
<Nubae-laptop> I cannot believe they even dare to call it a Linux derivateve anymore
<Nubae-laptop> Suse wont be seeing my  desktop in a verv very long time...... its lile Linux done, the microsoft way..... reminds me of IE
#edubuntu 2010-02-15
<mhall119> highvoltage, looks like my GDM problem wasn't a problem afterall, just VirtualBox being funny, so I should hopefully have Qimo Session packages this week
<mhall119> I'll ping you when they're ready, and we can see what our options are at that point
<highvoltage> hi sbalneav
<highvoltage> sbalneav, alkisg, nixternal: the Ubuntu Developer Board meeting is tomorrow at 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> would be good if you could attend, as you know we're applying for upload rights for all edubuntu packages for the edubuntu-dev group. would be nice if we could get this sorted out
 * alkisg will try to make it - might be back home at 15:20, though... :-/
<alkisg> Thanks highvoltage
<highvoltage> alkisg: that should be fine, I guess it will take them a few minutes to get everything rolling
<joerg> hi
<highvoltage> hi joerg
<joerg> do you know the gosa project?
<joerg> it is an easy peasy ldap gui thing
<joerg> to manage users, groups, hosts, whatever stuff you can put into ladp
<joerg> ldap
<joerg> thought it might be interesting to provide that as option for the school server project :)
<joerg> so had a look at it, and well....the ubuntu slapd uses that new directory-style config - so schemas need to be converted to ldif.
<joerg> I downloaded the stable gosa release, ldif files already included.
<joerg> but completely broken.
<joerg> somebody did search and replace with a text editor on the old. *.schema files and replaced a bit too much :)
<joerg> I fixed them all
<joerg> opened a ticket about it and attached a patch.
<joerg> the project leader closed the ticket and marked it as "fixed".
<joerg> what he did? he simply removed the broken *.ldif files and said: better none than unmaintainend :)
<Lns> Morning everyone
<highvoltage> morning Lns
<Lns> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> Lns: there's an Ubuntu Developer Board meeting tomorrow in #ubuntu-meeting at 15:00 UTC, would be nice if you could join, we're applying for the upload rights so that members of edubuntu-dev would be able to upload any edubuntu related packages if needed
<Lns> Hey I had an idea the other night.. are there any facilities for something of a "virtual ppa" ? What I mean is, maybe a PPA URL that simply 'contains' an administrated list of other PPAs..kind of like a ppa group
<highvoltage> joerg: sorry I was in other channels, didn't see your messages yet :)
<Lns> highvoltage: that's great! Would it be advantegous for me to be there even though I'm not really a part of edubuntu-dev?
<highvoltage> Lns: that would be nice for ppa's that depend on packages in other ppa's
<highvoltage> Lns: currently, no one is part of edubuntu-dev, but it will be formed hopefully soon :)
<Lns> ah cool =)
<highvoltage> Lns: but you are on the Edubuntu Council who will be administering the Edubuntu Developers group, so although not strictly necessary, it would be nice to have you there
<Lns> highvoltage: exactly. A good example could be some sort of 'edubuntu ppa' where we could pull from other PPAs such as if there were a tux4kids/gcompris/etc ppa with newer packages
<alkisg> Lns: you can just copy the packages
<Lns> highvoltage: so 15:00 UTC is ... 7AM here..yikes ;)
<alkisg> That's what I do with my own PPAs, I copy whatever I find useful, so that my schools need only have my PPAs in their sources.
<Lns> alkisg: yeah but that creates an inconsistency that manually has to be updated too
<highvoltage> Lns: that's a feature you'll have to discuss with the Launchpad team though. perhaps suggest it on #launchpad :)
<alkisg> Lns: inconsistency?
<Lns> alkisg: if the original ppa gets updated, yours doesnt..?
<alkisg> Sure, that's a good thing
<alkisg> Are you sure that you trust the newer version?
<Lns> it is definitely a good thing in some cases, in others it might be better to have them link to the original developer ppa too :)
<Lns> both have good use cases
<alkisg> For that to work, you'd either need to accept unsigned packages, or put all of the linked ppa keys to your apt keyring
<Lns> or, there could be some sort of inhereting functionality with the "virtual ppa"
<joerg> vmlintu, hey....are u there? there's a little typo in part 1 of your excellent ldap setup guide ;)
<vmlintu> joerg: hi..
<joerg> vmlintu, it's in init_database.ldif
<joerg> vmlintu, line 5
<vmlintu> joerg: dc: edu ?
<joerg> vmlintu, yepp
<vmlintu> hmm.. what it should be? (I'm slow today)
<joerg> hmm....
<joerg> vmlintu, trying to find it :D
<vmlintu> are you getting an error somewhere?
<joerg> vmlintu, the thing is, I have done that ages ago
<joerg> and it didn't work. I fixed it and it worke.
<joerg> just don't know where I have that file....
<vmlintu> did you use the file as-is or did you modify it?
<joerg> vmlintu, well, didn't use example.org :)
<vmlintu> did you change dc=edu on the dn line?
<joerg> vmlintu, mhhmm....
<joerg> vmlintu, I cannot find it.
<joerg> edu is correct in that case :-/
<joerg> vmlintu, mhhm....was my mistake probably :)
<joerg> vmlintu, the host is demo.myserv-project.org
<joerg> maybe I change the edu to org and it didn't work :)
<joerg> because it must be demo
<vmlintu> if you use dc=demo,dc=myserv-project,dc=org for it, dc needs to match the demo
<joerg> vmlintu, yepp.....I know....strange
<Lns> does anyone think it'd be a horrible idea to try and install libasound2 package from 8.10 into 8.04? I'm trying to satisfy a dependancy for newest version of rdesktop in stgraber's ppa
<crimsun> horrible, no. Not recommended certainly.
<crimsun> if you really want that you should backport the source package itself instead of dropping in the binary.
<Lns> crimsun: thx.. I just ended up installing from source =)
<Lns> rdesktop isn't seeing my win2k3 VM's sound device. I can log in through vmware and use it fine, but an 'rdesktop -r sound:local <ip_of_win_svr> doesn't work :(
<Lns> it's weird because pretty much a duplicate setup over at another school works fine
<crimsun> Lns: err, that may cause issues...
<crimsun> Lns: if you have a locally-compiled (/usr/local/lib) alsa-lib in addition to a distro-provided one (in /usr/lib), you should be aware of other packages possibly misbehaving unless recompiled against the newer one.
<Lns> crimsun: thanks - i just figured it out from gadi - was a windows setting i had to disable (ts config: disable audio device mapping)
<huayra> hi
<huayra> does edubuntu support roaming profiles?
<highvoltage> when you use ltsp you your profiles are quite mobile
<huayra> do you know if any of Canonical course offerings cover this? There's a Debian-Edu/Skolelinux admin that wants to migrate to Ubuntu if this option is available and if he can get training
<highvoltage> there's ltsp training happening soon that's provided by upstream LTSP I believe, but as far as I know that's just in the US
<huayra> highvoltage: Isthe edubuntu team planning to work closer with DebianEdu/SkoleLinux? I know a whole bunch of the Skolelinux people here in Norway and if you guys would like to get in touch I could arrange something
<highvoltage> huayra: we have distant contact, sbalneav hangsout in their irc channel and maintains our relationship with them
<huayra> they have contacted me earlier (I am the contact member of the Norwegian LoCo) about this
<huayra> I see
<highvoltage> huayra: it would certainly be nice to have a better working relationship with them
<highvoltage> huayra: would be nice if you hang around too!
<huayra> I am going to tak with the community guy over there and see what he thinks
<highvoltage> huayra: sbalneav is also upstream LTSP so he could possibly give you some more info on that too
<huayra> I am adding the channel to my autojoin list ;)
<highvoltage> awesome :)
<huayra> highvoltage, thanks a lot!
<highvoltage> and thanks to you, huayra
<mhall119> highvoltage, https://launchpad.net/~scratch/+archive/ppa/+packages the Scratch package for Lucid is available
<mhall119> I should have some for Qimo tomorrow (expecting final art tonight)
<highvoltage> mhall119: cool
<mhall119> highvoltage, I used the email address he has listed in LP, and he's pretty responsive if you guys need something from him while reviewing it
#edubuntu 2010-02-16
<IngForigua> Hi every one
<IngForigua> someone knows any program as http://www.softronix.com/logo.html for linux
<zapotec> Hello all! I have a question regarding http://edubuntu.org/FAQ: "How is Edubuntu related to Ubuntu?". The section there says that edubuntu is an additional package on top of ubuntu. However, I am currently downloading a 32bit "Edubuntu" DVD. Is this DVD equal to "Ubuntu" + the "edubuntu addon"?
<mhall119> zapotec, Edubuntu used to be an add-on, as of 9.10 it started to have it's own DVD image again.
<zapotec> Thanks mhall119
<mhall119> np
<hamish_> can anyone direct me to a site that recommends/lists business applications developed to run on ubuntu?
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: Qimo session packages for Lucid are up! https://launchpad.net/~qimo-maintainers/+archive/ppa/+packages
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: great!
<highvoltage> hi sbalneav
<highvoltage> just a reminder that the DMB meeting is starting soon in #ubuntu-meeting, we're last on the agenda so it will probably take several minutes before we're up
<sbalneav> OK, I'll be there
<mhall119|work> what's DMB?
<sbalneav> There now
<mhall119|work> an, nevermind
<mhall119|work> developer membership board
<sbalneav> Mail sent on next bug day, Feb 23rd
<highvoltage> cool.
<sbalneav> I'll book the day off at work.
<sbalneav> Just watching the baloney that's going on #ubuntu-meeing.
<sbalneav> I'm a full GNOME foundation member.  I have git access to all projects, voting on the board, access to a gnome.org mailing address, etc.
<sbalneav> Never had to take a test.
<highvoltage> if only #ubuntu-meeting came with a fast-forward button :)
<sbalneav> Never had to get asked, "So, you have access to Sabayon, please justify to us why you should be allowed access to anything else."
<highvoltage> sbalneav: to be perfectly honest, I like them being strict about it. I feel more comfortable knowing that MOTUs are expected to know a few things first before they're allowed to mess with packages going on my system
<sbalneav> riiiiiiiiiiiiiigh
<sbalneav> t
<sbalneav> As opposed to all the people you don't know upstream, right?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I trust the gnome project's judgement as well!
<sbalneav> Then why can't we just do like Gnome: one person who HAS motu/coredev access vouches for a new member?  Why the spanish inquisition? :)
<sbalneav> eh, whatever, doesn't bother me one way or the other.
<highvoltage> imho 5 minutes worth of questions is hardly all that terrible
<highvoltage> a motu application is basically some basic details with some endorsements from your sponsors. so it's not so much different from what you're suggesting
<highvoltage> but as I've said, I think the process will at least become faster with the archive-reorg
<highvoltage> (and with that also a bit less "cold" and impersonal)
<stgraber> Guys, we have a working Edubuntu DVD image today !!! (with the Menu editor and everything !!!)
<highvoltage> stgraber: AWESOME! I've been eagerly awaiting this image... /me syncs
<stgraber> I tested 64bit, I don't know if the 32bit one works too but at least it's there
<highvoltage> I'll be using the 32bit disc
<alkisg> highvoltage: I guess the developer board meeting is over?
<highvoltage> alkisg: still going, they're busy with motu approvals we're last on the agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<alkisg> Ah good :)
<stgraber> I have some real doubts we'll make it to this part of the agenda ...
<stgraber> I have to leave in 20min for another meeting so I won't be able to do any overtime for that meeting
<highvoltage> especially at the current pace :/
<stgraber> yeah ...
<highvoltage> when would the next DMB meeting be?
<stgraber> in two weeks (I think)
<stgraber> next candidate should be a lot faster though (I hope)
<stgraber> highvoltage: doh ... /me wonders why he didn't see that on some wiki page ...
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'm quite sure I did, looking for it now. altough the TeamDelegation page does clearly say TB
<stgraber> highvoltage: next TB meeting is next week. Can you add it there and book me in Zimbra so I'm sure to attend ?
<highvoltage> stgraber: will do
<stgraber> alkisg: ping
<alkisg> stgraber: pong
<stgraber> alkisg: can you join nbd-proxy ?
<highvoltage> stgraber: it's during the edubuntu bug day so it shouldn't be to hard to attend
<stgraber> highvoltage: indeed
<stgraber> alkisg: I should really teach these guys a bit more IRC :) they didn't notice you were on IRC but not in the channel ... ;)
<alkisg> Heh :)
<alkisg> stgraber: my tftpd not starting bug - if I just add a 10 seconds delay it works, so it must be a race: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tftp-hpa/+bug/522509
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 522509 in tftp-hpa "tftpd-hpa doesn't start on boot" [Undecided,New]
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: I uploaded my packages to REVU
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: oops, I never made an LP bug to package Qimo
<mhall119|work> can I make the bug against the Qimo project in LP, or should it be against something else?
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: yes you'll have to mark each bug in your package changelog as well
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: yes that will be fine
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: so I will need to make new packages?
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: you can just add it and rebuild, no need even to change the version number
<mhall119|work> won't revu reject it if I send a modified package with the same version number?
<mhall119|work> my ppa does that
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: what is a "needs-packaging" but?  Is that a tag on any bug report?
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: yes
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: it's described on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages if you'd like a more complete explanation
<mhall119|work> thanks
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: revu doesn't care about the version number since revu doesn't build and release the package anywhere
<mhall119|work> do I need to make 3 bug reports because i have 3 package?
<mhall119|work> or just one bug report for all three?
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: I believe you should do 3.
<mhall119|work> I have qimo-session, which depends on qimo-wallpaper and qimo-games
<mhall119|work> I couldn't just make one for qimo-session?
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Saw the new "tree" background yesterday.  Looks nice!
<highvoltage> sbalneav: did you get it via the updated artwork package?
<mhall119|work> highvoltage:what's this warning about not having a debian/watch file?
<mhall119|work> what is it, and what should I do with it?
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: you're supposed to have a watch file, it checks whether there's new releases of the upstream tarball
<highvoltage> here's the contents of a watch file for the package enna, for example:
<highvoltage> http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/02/16/1416220/Meteorite-Contains-Complex-Organic-Molecules
<highvoltage> oops, not that paste
<highvoltage> version=3
<highvoltage> http://enna.geexbox.org/releases/enna-(.*)\.tar\.bz2
<mhall119|work> okay, so it checks a URL pattern for new upstream versions?
<mhall119|work> but I don't have upstream packages for Qimo
<sbalneav> highvoltage: yeah
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: hmm, I'm not sure what the exact right thing would be to do in that case. can you ask on #ubuntu-motu perhaps?
<highvoltage> (I'll listen there as wwell since I'd like to know as well)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: cool! I hoped that it would make todays image but seems like it didn't
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: are you getting all of that?
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: yep
<mhall119|work> making sense to you?
<mhall119|work> cause I'm feeling a bit lost
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: ok, no problem
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: basically, this is going to be a native package. so you don't need a watch file and the version numbers shouldn't contain an ubuntu suffix in the version number
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: best is probably to upload what you got then we look at that
<mhall119|work> it's on revu
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/u/mhall119
<mhall119|work> is there a way to remove older versions from revu?
 * mhall119|work feels like he's left a mess
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: don't :)
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: it seems a bit daunting in the beginning, it will get better I promise
<mhall119|work> ok
<mhall119|work> well, they're up there, the best I can do I think
<mhall119|work> whoops, accidentally hit "archive" on one of my packages
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: would you like me to comment here or on the revu page? I guess it's probably best to comment there
<mhall119|work> yeah, for documentation sake
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: your copyright file mentions CC-BY-SA and GPL and GPLv2, and there's a copy of the GPLv3 in the COPYING file you added
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: I suppose that COPYING file isn't meant to be there?
<mhall119|work> woops
<mhall119|work> it was giving me a warning for not having a copy of the GPL
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: include it in the copyright file, along with the CC-BY-SA license. looking at the edubuntu-artwork package that seems to be the right way to do it
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: once we have that we can ping stephane who can review it again, I think it will be fine then and we can upload
<mhall119|work> I saw somewhere that the path to the GPL-2 was wrong, I'm gonna see if that fixes the warning
<mhall119|work> nope, didn't fix it
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: changed COPYING to be GPLv2
<mhall119|work> stgraber: could you mind reviewing my qimo packages? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/u/mhall119
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: I used the same copyright file for all 3 packages, is that an issue with qimo-wallpaper?
<mhall119|work> I condenced all the licensed to be GPLv2
<mhall119|work> in copyright and COPYING
<mhall119|work> so it's GPLv2 and CC-BY-SA
<mhall119|work> stephane is out now, isn't he
<highvoltage> I believe he's in a meeting
<highvoltage> checking qimo-session now and then -games
<mhall119|work> cool, thanks
<Lns> Anyone have an opinion of installing Lucid on a production LTSP server, but with the administrator being ...me? :) I use my LTSP server every day for business operations, I'm not scared of running into a bug here or there, but kinda need to have at least basic functionality not breaking. Any experiences to help me decide to do this or not?
<ogra> dont
<Lns> ogra: ok =) I trust you!
<highvoltage> Lns: I'm with ogra. as far as I can tell things are quite good at the moment, but you could potentially run into a *big* problem with any update
<ogra> test server == fine ... production == dont :)
<Lns> haha! ok.. well i do have a 1U test server sitting around. I think I need to put it on there at least.
<Lns> I want to help report bugs as much as possible
<ogra> ++
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> for testing I think it's even ok if you run an LTSP server in a virtual machine. probably not ideal when you want to do performance testing though
<Lns> what sucks is that it doesn't have vt extensions :( only one OS at a time, boo
<highvoltage> oddly enough I haven't noticed much difference on my machines with VT extentions and those that don't
<Lns> highvoltage: i hear ya..
<Lns> highvoltage: well I can't install libvirt/friends without it unfortunately
<Lns> at least in debian, which i really wanted as my host
<highvoltage> Lns: stgraber is working on LXC for lucid, that allows you to create an ubuntu container within ubuntu that will give you very good performance
<Lns> highvoltage: w/o vt?
<highvoltage> Lns: yep. it gives you better performance than a virtualized machine with VT, since it's not virtualized
<Lns> !!
<highvoltage> Lns: it's almost like having chroots but each with their own /proc, etc
<Lns> highvoltage: sounds like bsd jails
<highvoltage> Lns: it's pretty much the same
<Lns> nice!
<Lns> i've heard very good things about bsd jails
<highvoltage> Lns: I have some nice machines that don't have vt extensions so I'm looking forward to using that in lucid too
<Lns> that is awesome. Yeah this is a 2x dualcore xeon 3ghz server. would be nice to take advantage of multiple running OSes
<Lns> stgraber should backport LXC to hardy. *ducks*
<Lns> ;)
<highvoltage> Lns: nice thing about lxc is that it's in the upstream kernel, so you don't have to compile kernel modules or do anything weird in order to use it. just install the lxc userspace modules and go with it.
<alkisg> highvoltage: any HOW TOs available for LXC?
<Lns> highvoltage: so they're compiling it directly into the kernel eh?
 * Lns waves to alkisg 
<stgraber> Lns: you need at least 2.6.28 to have it working ;)
<alkisg> Hey Lns (I'd use Lucid on my school, but I'd never update until the final is out :P )
<Lns> stgraber: darn, i'm still at 2.6.24-27 ;)
<highvoltage> alkisg, Lns: stgraber blogged about it here: http://www.stgraber.org/2009/11/06/lxc-containers-or-extremely-fast-virtualization
<highvoltage> unfortunately Lucid hosts doesn't work under lucid yet
<highvoltage> but it is being worked on
<Lns> =p
<alkisg> Ouch
<alkisg> No sugar then
 * Lns bookmarks stgraber's site
<highvoltage> should only use it for production when lucid is released, of course :)
<Lns> So no Lucid alternate cd yet?
<highvoltage> for Edubuntu? there won't be.
<Lns> Oh sorry meant ubu
<highvoltage> Lns: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20100216/
<Lns> highvoltage: yeah downloading that right now :)
<Lns> never heard of zsync before, awesome!
<mhall119|work> any advice on who at Canonical I can talk to about getting HTTP hosting for the Qimo ISO?
<mhall119|work> I keep losing USA mirror hosts
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: Hmmmm, good one.
<sbalneav> qimo's based on ubuntu, IIRC?
<mhall119|work> I was going to try plying dinda with alcohol this weekend, but if that falls through...
<mhall119|work> yes, Xubuntu specifically
<dinda> mhall119|work: heh - I'll hold you to that!  ;)
<mhall119|work> if it'll get me hosting, I'll do it
<dinda> mhall119|work: was just trying to think of who you might ping on the hosting
<dinda> mhall119|work: it's too big for a PPA, i assume?
<mhall119|work> I have the packages in the PPA
<mhall119|work> I need to host an ISO
<highvoltage> not sure where they'd host that, they don't currently host any isos that aren't built internally
<dinda> mhall119|work: gotta let you know, it will be a tough sell at the moment, our IS team is pretty overworked and there's no one minding the education/edubuntu shop at the moment
<mhall119|work> I'm just causing the IS team all kinds of work
<mhall119|work> what with loco-directory and all
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: well, let them work for their money ;)
<dinda> mhall119|work: yeah, canonical only hosts its own iso s
<mhall119|work> they host Edubuntu ISO's don't they?
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: edubuntu isos are built by canonical build serveers
<mhall119|work> or is that still officially theirs
<mhall119|work> even though it's not funded
<dinda> mhall119|work: yes but i think that is a legacy deal
<mhall119|work> heck, I'd be happy to use their build servers too ;)
<dinda> until Canonical figures out what to do with the whole edubuntu project
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: it's not officially funded, but Canonical still provides us with all of the Edubuntu infrastucture
<highvoltage> (same as they do with Xubuntu, Ubuntu Studio, Kubuntu, etc)
<highvoltage> I can't see any reason why they would stop doing so, it's basically in their best interest
<dinda> highvoltage: it is :)
<mhall119|work> okay, who in the Canonical hierarchy has small children that would love Qimo?
<highvoltage> nixternal: hey there, are you around?
<dinda> mhall119|work: you're a good salesman :)
<mhall119|work> I'm a good talking salesman, so far I haven't actually sold it
<dinda> mhall119|work: I'm very much looking forward to a demo this weekend
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: I could host some images for you in germany
<mhall119|work> dinda: I'm getting it ready as we speak, and highvoltage has been helping me get the packages ready
<dinda> mhall119|work: will you have a booth or demo area?
<mhall119|work> booth
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: most of europe and africa should have a speedy connection to there, it's in hetzner's datacenter
<mhall119|work> we were between Debian and O'Reilly last year
<mhall119|work> hope for an equally good spot this year
<ubuntu-newbie> Can someone point me in the right direction?  Trying to get a Classmate 3 (M&A Companion Touch) running UNR 9.10, to get the touch screen to work.  WOrks in WIn XP home and will "click" but can't get pointer to track.
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: we've got some european mirros
<mhall119|work> it's my USA mirrors that keep getting overburdened and taken down
<ubuntu-newbie> Tried Qimo and found the "dock" thing in the bottom got in the way.
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: don't the universities there all have big mirrors with admins who will happily host it?
<highvoltage> ubuntu-newbie: hang around a bit, ogra might be able to tell you
<mhall119|work> ubuntu-newbie: it's not so much a dock as it is a launcher, and the games should all go fullscreen
<dinda> mhall119|work: that's what I was just thinking - maybe some Uni with a big education program
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: I don't know, I haven't tried the universities yet
<dinda> mhall119|work: I know Univ. of Texas and some others are mirror sites
<highvoltage> in my country pretty much all the universities mirror everything
<mhall119|work> yeah, there's a bunch that mirror other OSS apps
<highvoltage> uhm, I mean, mirrors pretty much everything
<mhall119|work> I'm just not sure how to get on the list
<dinda> yeah, ack, that University in Oregon that hosts everything FOSS
<dinda> just read an article on them
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: usually they have some form of a mirror index with the administrators e-mail address on there
 * dinda goes to find the article bookmark
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: just did a quick google and it seems like you could try harvard at least: https://wiki.med.harvard.edu/Software/Mirrors
<mhall119|work> I should try my own university first I suppose
<mhall119|work> ah ha!  found a contact, thanks for the advice
<nixternal> highvoltage: yes
<dinda> found it
<dinda> http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid80_gci1378294,00.html
<highvoltage> nixternal: do you perhaps have a few moments to review some packages? they're not big ones at least
<nixternal> highvoltage: sure, I can review some
<highvoltage> nixternal: it's the 3 ones on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/u/mhall119
<highvoltage> nixternal: if we can get it in before Thursday then we can ship a Qimo desktop as option with Edubuntu, which would be quite cool
<sbalneav> highvoltage++
<sbalneav> That would be awesome.  Would also solve mhall119|work's hosting issues.
<mhall119|work> not really
<mhall119|work> I'd still need to host the ISO
<nixternal> highvoltage: reviewed...need a bit of work yet... mhall119|work fyi, 80 chars wide or less for all files under debian/ directory
<mhall119|work> nixternal: I was afraid of that, creative commons didn't supply a nice plain text version of the license text
<nixternal> copyright files are a pita honestly since archive admins are typically pretty anal over them, so you need to lists the files that fall under each license
<highvoltage> nixternal: thanks!
<mhall119|work> nixternal: how should I do that?
<nixternal> mhall119|work: there is a plain text version, it is just hard as hell to find...I found it once
<mhall119|work> just CC_BY_SA:
<mhall119|work> file 1
<mhall119|work> file 2
<mhall119|work> GPLv2:
<mhall119|work> file 3
<mhall119|work> file 4
<nixternal> let me do something really quick and pastebin it for you
<nixternal> ok, mhall119|work for instance...qimo-wallpaper package, COPYING file is GPLv2, but none of the png files are GPL, just CC-by-SA
<nixternal> actually, I don't think qimo-wallpaper package will fly, as there is no source files for the png files
<mhall119|work> huh what?
<mhall119|work> source for the png?
<nixternal> copyright file should state where I can download the source
<mhall119|work> of an image?
<nixternal> well, I don't think those png files were created with gimp, I am fairly certain they were created with inkscape, in which there should be an svg file somewhere
<nixternal> or, if they were created with gimp, I think the gimp source file is a .xcf file, a file that has all of the layers of the image
<mhall119|work> I'm pretty sure they were created in Photoshop
<nixternal> then there should be a .psd file
<mhall119|work> I didn't make them
<nixternal> or .psd files
<mhall119|work> why is that required?
<nixternal> open source :)
<nixternal> you need the source, as the .png files are a graphics binary equivalent
<mhall119|work> but the images are cc-by-sa, that's not required for that
<nixternal> ahh, the upstream tarball doesn't contain them either
<highvoltage> nixternal: are you 100% sure that the image sources need to be included? I don't believe we've done that for the edubuntu-artwork ever
<nixternal> ahh, yeah, that silly GPL COPYING file is throwing me off
<nixternal> mhall119|work: thanks for reminding me they are cc
<mhall119|work> I will make individualized copyright files for each package to avoid this confusion
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: I'm quite sure it all needs to go into the debian/copyright file
<nixternal> heh, since you can manipulate that you upstream silly you :D
<mhall119|work> should I inline the GPLv2 text into debian/copyright, or is it okay to leave in COPYING?
<nixternal> in the debian/copyright file, if you have a COPYING file in the tarball that has the full CC-by-SA text, then all you need in the copyright file is the CC Deed part
<nixternal> why is there is GPLv2 in the first place?
<nixternal> the images in qimo-wallpaper are cc-by-sa right?
<nixternal> there is no gplv2 code that I can see anywhere
<mhall119|work> nixternal: yes
<mhall119|work> not in the -wallpaper package
<mhall119|work> I just used the same debian/copyright for all 3 packages
 * mhall119|work was being lazy
<Lns> ....holy crap. My new install of lucid (ubuntu) just booted up in like 5 seconds.
<Lns> faster than standby!
<mhall119|work> hold crap the cc-by-sa is long
<highvoltage> Lns: heh, it is quite nice isn't it? :)
<Lns> anyone know about the status of sun java for 10.04? It's not in the latest build, I see http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1406969&page=2 that points to repo politics...anyone know if it's going to (try to) be in 10.04 final?
<Lns> highvoltage: crazy fast!!
<mhall119|work> crap, I've got to go home
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: nixternal: I'll finish the copyright changes this evening (eastern time)
<mhall119|work> Lns: I heard it's being removed from Debian, so Ubuntu has been trying to phase it out as well
<nixternal> and I will be watching the olympics this evening (chicago time) :p
<mhall119|work> NBC doesn't even start coverate until 8pm here
<nixternal> you need AT&T U-Verse
<nixternal> we have the Olympic's Channel
<nixternal> with multi-view which is really nice
<nixternal> I was watching curling earlier
<highvoltage> multi-view, that sounds nice
<highvoltage> so is that like, picture in picture or do you cycle through angles?
<mhall119|work> yeah, I have Verizon FiOS
<mhall119|work> sucks
<nixternal> highvoltage: there is a main screen, then down the right side of the screen are the other channels displaying different olympic events, then there are selections for news, medals, and such along the bottom...there is some interactive stuff as well such as online games too which is pretty neat
<Ahmuck-Sr> sbalneav: www.dropbox.com :)
#edubuntu 2010-02-17
<mhall119|work> nixternal: highvoltage: I cleaned up the copyright and control and compat files on my packages and uploaded new ones
<mhall119|work> stgraber: ^^
<stgraber> Edubuntu menu editor announced: http://www.stgraber.org/2010/02/16/say-hi-edubuntu-menu-editor
<mhall119|work> stgraber: nice, is that part of sabayon?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: ?
<stgraber> mhall119|work: nope, sabayon works quite differently actually. You could use it to perform something similar, though we wanted to follow the XDG standards there which offers a good number of advantages compared to sabayon's way (overwritting files in the home directory). XDG uses configuration in /etc/, scripts to determine what profile to apply and in which order (it supports inheriting options).
<stgraber> mhall119|work: basically, we're using the same backend functions as gnome-simple-menu-editor and alacarte but make it apply system-wide using the existing XDG and desktop-profile infrastructure.
<stgraber> mhall119|work: in the future, the idea is to be able to use that inheriting (we do it at Revolution Linux, but manually for now) and be able to apply a district-wide menu, then school-specifc, then grade-specific
<stgraber> each adding entries, hiding others and renaming some others
<mhall119|work> ah, ok
<mhall119|work> I might want that
<mhall119|work> for Qimo
<stgraber> also, it makes it extremely easy to export your new menu (you don't even need to be an admin to create the menu, you only need to be an admin to apply it), share it with colleagues, other schools, ... and import + assign the ones you want
<mhall119|work> I'd love to make a launcher panel that gets it's launchers from an XDG category
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: That's what you need sabayon for :)
<sbalneav> Well, actually, if you know gconf inside and out, you don't need sabayon at all. :)
<stgraber> sbalneav: it'd really be great if we could have sabayon to use XDG to do that kind of group-based settings (gconf/menu) instead of unpacking a .tar.gz in the home directory :) but that's a lot of work to make that all user friendly ...
<stgraber> sbalneav: XDG is very powerful and can do everything that sabayon can do (as long as it's in xdg or gconf) but it's quite hard to put a UI on top of that. The menu editor is our first try at doing that :)
<sbalneav> XDG doesn't handle gconf, AFAIK
<stgraber> it does
<mgariepy> XDG no but desktop-profiles does.
<sbalneav> buh?
<stgraber> right, desktop-profiles does. Sorry got mixed up between these two again ;)
<mgariepy> well kinda does
<stgraber> but we have inheriting working and the same magic applies (checking for system groups or whatever you want and apply or not based on that)
<stgraber> though we never used it in production (or am I wrong there ?) so we haven't spent that much time testing/fixing it (where needed)
<sbalneav> Well, there's no reason why sabayon CAN'T do whatever it can within the XDG framework.
<sbalneav> the various sources (gconf and file are the only two working ones) just basically keep track of changes
<mgariepy> we use inheriting for screen locking in gnome
<sbalneav> then they zip the changes up into a zipfile, which gets unpacked into the users $HOME.
<mgariepy> $ cat /etc/gconf/2/path  | grep -2 "sabayon\|desktop-profiles"
<stgraber> right, instead of unpacking in $HOME, you'd unpack ONCE in /etc/desktop-profiles/ and put a desktop-profile script that matches the user or the group and apply whatever is in desktop-profiles if it matches
<sbalneav> nothing says the sources couldn't be modified to take the changes and turn them into something XDG compliant.
<mgariepy> both are supported by gnome ;)
<sbalneav> yeag
<stgraber> that way you'll save a lot of space and have inheriting working at the same time
<sbalneav> I think making sabayon XDG compliant would be a laudable, and exceedingly useful goal.
<stgraber> yep
<mgariepy> hey sbalneav have you played with menueditor a bit ?
<sbalneav> Not yet, but I'm going to kick off an edubuntu DVD download tonight, re-install my box from scratch to test the installer, and I'll have a look at it then.
<sbalneav> the ned dvd's there, yes?
<stgraber> sbalneav: today's daily works quite well and contains the menu editor
<sbalneav> cool.  I'll kick off the download before bedtime
<stgraber> oh, actually, tomorrow's already built :)
<stgraber> no idea if it works but I see no reason it wouldn't
<stgraber> oh, and we have the new artwork on that one too !!
<stgraber> just in time for tomorrow's meeting, great
 * stgraber rsyncs (sorry mgariepy ;))
<sbalneav> What's the rsync line again? (save me the hunting in my notes, please :))
<stgraber> rsync -avPz rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/edubuntu/dvd/20100217/lucid-dvd-amd64.iso lucid-dvd-amd64.iso
<stgraber> I just started that one, not sure it's the right one but at least it's downloading something ;)
<stgraber> ok, looking at what it's doing, it's downloading only the missing parts, so it's the right rsync line :)
<sbalneav> got it.  downloading
<stgraber> https://www.stgraber.org/download/images/edubuntu-daily.png
<stgraber> screenshot of the default desktop on current daily
<stgraber> and we have 763 language pack packages ;)
<stgraber> for 273 languages !!!
<stgraber> 139 actually once we drop the per-country variants
<Ahmuck-Sr> awesome work on menu system
<Ahmuck-Sr> this is a big ++
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: What did you mean about the ping you gave me about dropbox.com?
<Ahmuck-Sr> i found it on xpud.  it was interesting.  don't recall the stream of conciousnes that would have caused me to drop it here though
<sbalneav> Doesn't load for me.
<sbalneav> oh, now it does
<sbalneav> earlier it was saying it couldn't find the domain.
<mgariepy> gnite everyone
<sbalneav> Same here, heading to bed.
<sbalneav> Nioght all
<mhall119|work> stgraber: I mean, I want to make the qimo launcher include launchers from the Games menu
<mhall119|work> so that if a user installed a new game, the launcher for it shows up in Qimo's launcher automagically
<mhall119|work> I don't think sabayon can do that, can it?
<mhall119|work> well I'm calling it a night
<mhall119|work> stgraber: nixternal: highvoltage: if you guys could check my Qimo packages again in the morning, I would appreciate it
<lightnin> Hi All - I'm trying to Scratch - a programming language for kids developed at MIT Media lab - into multiverse in time for feature freeze. We need advocacy from a few MOTUs - can anyone help? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/scratch
<lightnin> oops I'm trying to _get_ Scratch into multiverse...
<alkisg> ÎÎ±Î»Î·Î¼Î­ÏÎ±
<Eeyore-Jr> anybody up?
<alkisg> Hi Eeyore-Jr
<Eeyore-Jr> seen this? - http://www.ylmf.org/en/
<alkisg> No - is that Ubuntu with a Windows theme?
<Eeyore-Jr> it's based on ubuntu, yes
<Eeyore-Jr> as of this week, i'm dumping my kubuntu install
 * alkisg wonders why people keep releasing ubuntu remixes instead of just theme packages...
<Eeyore-Jr> i like ubuntu netbook remix
<Eeyore-Jr> ubuntu makes it hard to theme?
<alkisg> I don't think so, it's standard gnome themes...
<Eeyore-Jr> anywho, i always use the command line to install software, havn't looked at the latest software installer, but this installer is a breeeeze
<alkisg> Heh, it's fun that they have the standard gnome menu, but on their site the screenshot is a mockup with the windows start menu :D
<Tm_T> not to mention the're apparently company behind that
<Tm_T> +s
<Tm_T> -other typos ):
<Eeyore-Jr> companies behind ylmf?
<Eeyore-Jr> Tm_T: ?
<Eeyore-Jr> alkisg: yes, i noticed that the screenshot has a windows menu.  wondered if that menu was available, and looking now
<Eeyore-Jr> upon closer inspection, i see ubuntu has the same software installer
<Eeyore-Jr> it really is nothing but a themed verison of ubuntu
<alkisg> Right... and I think the windows-looking theme can also be found in the gnome themes site
<Eeyore-Jr> problem is, i doubt one would get away with using that theme on OEM computers
<Eeyore-Jr> because of copyright
<Eeyore-Jr> it's interesting though, as i've completly re-discoverd gnome
<Eeyore-Jr> and am seriously considering dumping kde because of the overhead it puts on my system
<Tm_T> Eeyore-Jr: see the footer in that site
<Eeyore-Jr> wonder how they can claim copyright?
<Eeyore-Jr> oddly nuff, i love kde apps, amarok, k3b, showfoto, etc.
<Eeyore-Jr> konversation
<Eeyore-Jr> well, it's 3:00 am for me, so i'd better be getting some rest
<huayra> hi highvoltage
<huayra> I took contact with a friend I know @ Skolelinux (the original project manager Knut yrvin, who is also the community manager of Qt, Now Nokia R&D)
<huayra> He copied me with the Norwegian organization behind the development of Debian-Edu/Skolelinux here in Norway
<huayra> There's some background already: http://wiki.skolelinux.de/Kooperation/Edubuntu
<huayra> the idea should be to maybe get some Edubuntu people to be part of the Debian-Edu/Skolelinux Code Sprints and viceversa regarding i.e. the next UDS
<highvoltage> huayra: great
<huayra> and find out whatever happened to this great cooperation plans we had
<huayra> and where we can continue from wherever we left
<highvoltage> huayra: Petter and Knut was also at the Edubuntu Summit in 2005
<huayra> I know, saw the link
<highvoltage> huayra: lots of things happened in Edubuntu since then and in short, we basically started over last year
<huayra> I have followed your development as well
<huayra> and realied that you have laid new plans and revigoritized the project
<highvoltage> indeed
<huayra> that's why this debian/ubuntu cooperation comes at such an exciting point in time
<huayra> and we could make those synergies also apply to these parallell
<huayra> projects
<highvoltage> I added #debian-edu to my autojoins at least :)
<huayra> good :)
<huayra> I will have a dialogue with them and see what we can do or at least try to get some working poitns up and see if we can have some edubuntu people at the next FRISK code sprint/summit
<huayra> Will keep you updated ;)
<joerg> hi
<mhall119|work> morning
<lightnin> Hi All - I'm trying to get Scratch - a programming language for kids developed at MIT Media lab - into multiverse in time for feature freeze. We need advocacy from a few MOTUs - can anyone help? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/scratch
<highvoltage> hi there joerg, mhall119|work and lightnin
<lightnin> Hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> lightnin: downloading the scratch sourcepackage now... will take a few minutes because I'm syncing edubuntu disc as well
<lightnin> highvoltage: great! Thanks :)
<highvoltage> lightnin: I might be wrong which is why I'm checking with you first, MIT license is a free license so why would it go into multiverse?
<highvoltage> lightnin: nevermind that, I see now :)
<lightnin> highvoltage: Ah - there are extra caveats. The software interfaces with our server (a repository of Scratch projects), so we don't make the sharing code available.
<highvoltage> lightnin: the postinst does a chmod 666 to /etc/defaults.list before making a change and then reverts it back
<highvoltage> lightnin: the script runs as root so that isn't necessary
<highvoltage> lightnin: postrm has unnecessary use of cat that you can get rid of by using sed -i
<lightnin> highvoltage: Ah, great! Removed chmod 666 line
<lightnin> highvoltage: Probably these are related to install problems in Kubuntu: https://www.assembla.com/spaces/scratchonlinux/tickets/9-package-tries-to-write-to-defaults-list-file-in-kubuntu--which-doesn-t-exist-
<lightnin> highvoltage: Is there a better way?
<highvoltage> lightnin: if you use sed -i you don't have to do the mv anymore, so yes it will solve that
<highvoltage> so instead of having:
<highvoltage> cat /etc/gnome/defaults.list | sed -e '/application\/x\-scratch\-project\=scratch\.desktop/d' > ./defaults.list
<highvoltage> mv ./defaults.list /etc/gnome/defaults.list
<highvoltage> you should have sed -i '/application\/x\-scratch\-project\=scratch\.desktop/d' /etc/gnome/defaults.list
<highvoltage> you could check whether the file exist first before doing that with an if statement
<lightnin> highvoltage: now I must reveal the true depth of my ignorance...
<lightnin> highvoltage: Not sure how to do that in this kind of script...
<highvoltage> if [ -f /etc/gnome/defaults.list ]; then
<highvoltage>   sed -i '/application\/x\-scratch\-project\=scratch\.desktop/d' /etc/gnome/defaults.list
<highvoltage> fi
<highvoltage> (-f checks whether a file exists)
<lightnin> awesome
<lightnin> highvoltage: so I should probably do same in posinst: if [ -f /etc/gnome/defaults.list ]; then echo "application/x-scratch-project=scratch.desktop" >> /etc/gnome/defaults.list
<lightnin> and same for chmod 644 line?
<highvoltage> lightnin: you don't need to do the chmod
<lightnin> highvoltage: ah, not even the closing one, 644 - ok makes sense.
<highvoltage> lightnin: and also what I'm suggestions will fix the problems in the scripts, not sure if it's the 100% right way to do it, but we'll get it in shape as far as we can and then get a second reviewer to look at it
<lightnin> highvoltage: Wonderful! Have added changes (and read brief tutorial about scripts). Shall I build and test a new package, or shall we look at other issues?
<highvoltage> lightnin: hold on a bit first
<highvoltage> lightnin: you should add ${misc:Depends} as s dependency
<lightnin> highvoltage: lol! it turned into a smiley...
<lightnin> so: Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}    ?
<highvoltage> lightnin: yep
<highvoltage> lightnin: your version number doesn't seem right, although I'm not 100% sure what it should be. I suggest you ask on #ubuntu-motu
<highvoltage> lightnin: and once you have that right you should rebuilt and submit again. if you ask nixternal nicely he'll review the package as well. he's more capable than me when it comes to reviewing. I don't think there are much you have to sort out after that
<lightnin> highvoltage: Great! Are the other errors (the Lintian error) listed on the revu page ok to disregard?
<lightnin> It doesn't seem to like our original maintainer line in the control file...
<highvoltage> lightnin: I think you should drop that field, but it might be best to get a second opinion
<lightnin> I'm not attached to it, if it's causing problems.. Just put it in there to match what the packaging wiki described. So I'll remove it.
<lightnin> highvoltage: Thanks _so_ much for all your help. We really appreciate it! :)
<sbalneav> Morning all
<joerg> evening :)
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: what's the process for bug fixes to packages in revu or universe?
<mhall119|work> I assume the freeze doesn't block them
<mhall119|work> is that correct?
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: that is correct
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav
<mhall119|work> cool, cause I just found a bug in my session configs ;)
<mhall119|work> success!
<sbalneav> Morning alkisg
<alkisg> Hi sbalneav
<joerg> sbalneav, hey....can you help me with some ldap stuff?
<sbalneav> joerg: sure.
<sbalneav> what can I help you with?
<joerg> just a conceptional question
<sbalneav> Sure, shoot.
<joerg> http://www.myserv-project.org/specs:social
<joerg> just scan this one first
<joerg> that gives you an idea how users and groups are organized
<joerg> basically: there are profiles which contain interactive applications to collaborate and share things like files, materials, media.
<joerg> the owner has the right to change them (should add that as well, that's missing)
<joerg> owner is the user himself or the group's founder/manager.
<joerg> sbalneav, and now....the question is: how to map that to ldap
<joerg> authentication of the users is not a problem at all.
<joerg> they'll have a posixAccount in the ldap DB and we can get the information from there.
<joerg> but the groups....they are my problem.
<joerg> usually a group (on a unix system) is a bunch of users that have the same permissions.
<joerg> which is true for groups like "teachers" and "students"
<joerg> but there will be heaps of groups like "class11a", "bowling-club", "students-newspaper" which don't need that.
<sbalneav> right.
<joerg> they just wanna have their profile with a discussion board
<joerg> and in the case of the mag/newspaper a shared folder
<sbalneav> So probably what you want is an additional schema object, associated with myserv-project
<joerg> where group members (or maybe everybody) can upload files and hand in articles or photos.
<sbalneav> this schema object could be a simple string
<joerg> sbalneav, well, either that or nothing at all.
<joerg> if only the webapp needs that information
<joerg> why not keep it in the webapp's postgres?
<sbalneav> Well, true
<sbalneav> but it would be nice to extend that to ldap
<sbalneav> as a central point of admin
<joerg> sure
<joerg> just to have it in one place, right?
<sbalneav> right
<joerg> but what I think: I am using django as webframework
<sbalneav> what you don't want, for an admin, when he/she adds a user, is have to do 14 things in 14 places
<joerg> and it provides an easy to use administration for users, groups and all the models.
<sbalneav> so add the user in ldap
<sbalneav> then create a board
<sbalneav> then do this
<sbalneav> then do that, etc. :)
<joerg> it would be nice to be not too dependent on ldap
<joerg> I mean....ldap is the way to go
<sbalneav> Well, sure, you don't want to be dependent on ldap
<joerg> for a high school with 1.200 students like my old high school
<joerg> but imagine a primary school
<joerg> 200 students, 10 teachers or so
<joerg> I don't want to give them an ldap setup.
<sbalneav> right, yeah, LDAP's overkill in that use-case
<joerg> because in the primary schools, usually only teachers have accounts
<joerg> and setting up ldap for ten persons? :)
<joerg> so, I thought about using the DB in the first place
<joerg> and provide a synchronisation mechanism.
<joerg> in django you have models and objects
<joerg> to access the DB tables
<joerg> and you could add a "signal" to a model like an interest group.
<joerg> which means: whenever somebody adds, deletes or changes an interest group, the signal is fired.
<sbalneav> lets put it this way: if you WANTED to tie arbitrary groups (formums, etc) into ldap, it's not that hard to do.  Just create schema object, off the top of my head, I'd say use the same schema type as posixGroup, so you can add arbitrary number od memberID's, then just make is a user writable schema object.
<joerg> and the data could be written to ldap as well
<sbalneav> right.
<joerg> if the school has the ldap module running.
<joerg> if not, nothing will happen.
<sbalneav> right.
<joerg> ok, well
<sbalneav> doing what you want to do is perfectly valid, and easy under ldap.
<joerg> now the only question is: interaction with the outside world :)
<sbalneav> Well, ldap's permission framework allows you to specify updates from only certain hosts.
<joerg> sbalneav, no, that's not what I mean
<joerg> external services
<sbalneav> ah, ok
<joerg> the webapp is under my control
<joerg> if I need something special I add a schema to ldap and I am done.
<sbalneav> correct.
<joerg> but, right now (with the crappy solution we have), there are only posixGroups
<sbalneav> If you'd like, I could sit down today and create you some schema objects
<joerg> which are stored in /etc/group of course because the company maintaining that solution probably thinks ldap is the name of my dog or a spice or whatever
<joerg> at least they never heard of it it seems :D
<joerg> sbalneav, hang on :)
<sbalneav> ok :)
<joerg> you could do that, but maybe it is too early...
<joerg> I have a lot of ideas in my head and can't always say: yes, this is the way to go
<joerg> so we might end up changing schemas again and again....
<sbalneav> No problem.  You let me know what you need, ldap wise, I'll make it happen.
<lightnin> highvoltage: I've uploaded the changes we talked about. Still working on the version issue - can you advocate now?
<lightnin> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/scratch
<joerg> sbalneav, cool thx
<joerg> sbalneav, but do you have an idea how to get the backend things going?
<joerg> sbalneav, like, an interest group "school-newspaper" will need to have an e-mail adress.
<joerg> sbalneav, would be enough if mail to school-newspaper@myschool.edu gets forwarded to all users in that group.
<joerg> I know I could easily implement that by using an internal messaging system in the webapp
<joerg> but people from outside the school would need to apply for an account first
<joerg> and people want traditional old fashioned e-mail
<joerg> because they have always used it.
<joerg> and the old proprietary solution provided e-mail adresses for groups as well and if the new one doesn't it will be concerned as worse and will not be accepted :P
<joerg> sbalneav, so somehow these interest groups which are no posix groups, should be honoured by the mailserver / the aliases stuff
<lightnin> Anyone have a minute? I need to figure out how to fix the versioning on my native debian package.
<stgraber> meeting in 7 minutes
<highvoltage> Edubuntu meeting in about 7... ok what stgraber said
<stgraber> hehe ;)
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> Lns, sbalneav, nixternal, alkisg: this will also be an EC meeting, fwiwi
<highvoltage> (without the extra 'i' that my wireless keyboard decided to add)
<Lns> whoops! hehe thx highvoltage
<highvoltage> stgraber: hmm, I don't see mgariepy on the agenda
<highvoltage> stgraber: he is up for membership tonight right?
<mgariepy> yeah i think so.
<stgraber> yep, he's supposed to be on the agenda
<highvoltage> ok I'll add it
<highvoltage> (it as in the item, not 'it' as in mgariepy :) )
<sbalneav> just FYI, I've got a meeting in an hour, but we usually don't run longer than an hour, so...
<sbalneav> should be fine.
<stgraber> hehe, just after I told mgariepy that you consider no longer consider him human ;)
<sbalneav> He's superhuman
<stgraber> will be back in 2 min. See you at the meeting
<mgariepy> trust me sbalneav i'm not hehe
<highvoltage> ooh, time!
<highvoltage> let's cross over...
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: you wanted to know something regarding your uploads to revu?
<mhall119|work> yes
<mhall119|work> I have changes to some of the config files to fix a bug
<mhall119|work> should I push those changes up to revu
<highvoltage> nixternal: btw, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kov2G0GouBw
<mhall119|work> or would that make getting approval take longer?
<mhall119|work> in which case, should I just wait until it's approved then upload it as a bug fix
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: if you can upload it now, no problem, although once it's in we'll have plenty of time to make changes for bugs
<mhall119|work> ok
<mhall119|work> in that case, I'll wait until I've done some more testing so I can group fixes
<Lns> lol highvoltage ! nice yt
<nixternal> highvoltage: I should have guessed that was on big bang theory :)
<alkisg> Lns: when you installed openbsd-inetd yesterday, have you done `apt-get update` before that? (I'm no longer experiencing this problem, so I'm wondering if you used an older version or if it only happens on the first installation)
<highvoltage> nixternal: :D
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: rock paper scissors spock lizzard is http://www.samkass.com/theories/RPSSL.html and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kov2G0GouBw
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: One learns a new thing every day
<Lns> alkisg: well I used the daily build from yesterday, but i always apt-get update before installing anything
<alkisg> Ah ok in that case the bug's still there :)
<Lns> yep =)
<Lns> girlbot! haha
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: RPPSL is <reply> See rock paper scissors spock lizzard
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: Got it
<Lns> so that's the official edubuntu tie-breaker now
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: looking at the qimo-session package...
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: looks like it's been done by a pro :)
<highvoltage> I'm just not sure about the version number
<highvoltage> nixternal: mhall119|work has the version number for qimo-session (a native package) as 2.0.0, is that fine or must it be 2.0.0-1?
<highvoltage> Lns: heh, I guess we'll use it unofficially :)
<highvoltage> I think the bot has support for rock paper scissors, maybe she just needs an update...
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: lsmod
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: Plugins: admin, conversions, core, eval, factoid, feeds, film, fun, games, geography, google, help, icecast, identity, karma, languages, log, lotto, meetings, memo, network, oeis, quotes, rfc, seen, social, sources, strings, test, urlgrab and urlinfo
<highvoltage> oh it's not enabled yet, I'll do it tomorrow
<Lns> 8| icecast?
<highvoltage> Lns: well the bot is an ibid. it's not specific to just irc. it does jabber as well and pretty much anything that python.twisted can talk to
<Lns> that's really cool. Actually I might be setting up my first icecast server soon, with any luck. Students are starting to get into podcasting, i'm trying to convince them to try out a school-based network radio system =)
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: I was told by someone in #ubuntu-motu that native package number doesn't have -stuff on it
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: I just checked with stgraber, it's fine like it is
<mhall119|work> ok
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: just in a skype call, be with you in a few mins
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: all three packages look great, giving them +1's...
<nixternal> highvoltage: 2.0.0-1 or 2.0.0-0ubuntu1 if there are plans on it going into debian as well
<mhall119|work> not right now there aren't
<highvoltage> nixternal: I thought it needed a -1, but aparently 2.0.0 is fine. do you perhaps have a moment to review them? I think they're 100%.
<sbalneav> highvoltage:
<sbalneav> stgraber:
<highvoltage> sbalneav: hi, stgraber notified me that you uploaded the gartoon-redux package to revu
<sbalneav> The gartoon-redux is in revu
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> ok ;)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: can you change the maintainer to the ubuntu developers line and also update the standards version to at least 3.8.3?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: and also add ${misc:Depends} as a dependency
<highvoltage> sbalneav: do you have a needs-packaging bug for this package in LP or should I create one quickly?
<sbalneav> create one, I guess
<sbalneav> I'm looking into the above.
<joerg> sbalneav, hey....any idea about what I asked a few hours ago? the e-mail thing?
<joerg> shall I post it again or do u have the logs?
<sbalneav> Saw it haven't had a chance to respond.
<sbalneav> highvoltage: What do you want for a maintainer:
<sbalneav> Maintainer: Ubuntu Desktop Team <ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com>
<sbalneav> ?
<sbalneav> That's what sabayon is
<highvoltage> sbalneav: make it Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>
<highvoltage> sbalneav: that will probably be Edubuntu Developers after next week, but we can change it in the future
<joerg> sbalneav, ever checked out gosa-project.org?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: how are things
<sbalneav> highvoltage: I'm getting a whacky error
<sbalneav> ah no wait
<sbalneav> ok, repushing
<sbalneav> one sec
<sbalneav> highvoltage: ok, 0ubuntu3 pushed
<highvoltage> sbalneav: thanks
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: tell sbalneav please ping me when you're back :)
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: Done
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: weather for sherbrooke, qc
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: In Sherbrooke, Quebec at 5:44 PM EST on February 17, 2010: -2Â°C; Humidity: 86%; Wind: WNW at 9Â km/h; Conditions: Light Snow; Sunrise/set: 6:45 AM EST/5:16 PM EST; Moonrise/set: 7:42 AM EST/9:15 PM EST
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: weather for cape town
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: In Cape Town, South Africa at 1:00 AM SAST on February 18, 2010: 17Â°C; Humidity: 68%; Wind: SW at 9Â km/h; Conditions: Clear; Sunrise/set: 6:23 AM SAST/7:35 PM SAST; Moonrise/set: 10:15 AM SAST/9:26 PM SAST
<highvoltage> the gap is starting to close, at least.
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: qimo packages made it, with only minutes to spare :)
#edubuntu 2010-02-18
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: announce feature freeze is now in effect
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: One learns a new thing every day
<highvoltage> oops
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: forget announce feature freeze
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: Yessir
<sbalneav> highvoltage: ping\
<edubuntugirl> sbalneav: By the way, highvoltage on freenode told me "tell sbalneav please ping me when you're back :)" 1 hour, 57 minutes and 41 seconds ago
<sbalneav> Gee, thanks :)
<highvoltage> hey sbalneav :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: at least we don't have to get the gartoon-redux package in *right now*
<highvoltage> sbalneav: it's covered by the artwork freeze but it would still be nice to get it in before the end of the week
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I'm going to sleep now since its 2:36am here but we'll talk again tomorrow!
<sbalneav> highvoltage: cool, yeah get some sleep :)
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: Qimo packages made what?
<mhall119|work> thank you highvoltage and nixternal
<mgariepy> sbalneav, when you launch sabayon with gksu does the cursor stay in the busy position forever, for profilemanager it stay there for like 30 seconds even tho it takes like 4 sec to start
<stgraber> mgariepy: takes more like 0.5s here then 30s of that wait cursor ;)
<mgariepy> hmm not on karmic
<mgariepy> but that's great then ;)
<stgraber> yeah, everything is just faster in lucid ;)
<mgariepy> with your ssd
<stgraber> well, that helps but Lucid in general is faster
 * stgraber should really reinstall his laptop ... hundreds of useless packages and a ton of hacks have piled up since alpha1
<mgariepy> same for me but mine was a karmic alpha i think.
<sbalneav> mgariepy: yeah\
<sbalneav> it's a bug in gksu
<mgariepy> ok
<sbalneav> the code's a nightmare
<sbalneav> You know the screen-scraping stuff we do with ldm for the ssh connection?
<sbalneav> gksu does that for sudo
<sbalneav> so, if you've already authenticated (i.e. the sudo runs right away without asking for a password) the gksu sits there in the main thread for 30 seconds looking for a passord prompt
<mgariepy> ouch
<sbalneav> meanwhile, the apps aready running.
<mgariepy> omg
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> man, I can't get that new pam module running fast enough :)
<sbalneav> I've already got it authenticating
<sbalneav> the libssh stuff's going to be MUCH more sane.
<stgraber> looking forward to getting rid of all that expect code ;)
<sbalneav> oh, you have no idea
<sbalneav> that code's my worst nightmare
<sbalneav> I'm simultaneously very proud, and very ashamed I wrote it.
<sbalneav> Proud that it worked, and it was the only solution we had to the problem
<sbalneav> Ashamed that it was such a gawd-awful hack
<stgraber> well, I guess you haven't looked at NX's code then ;)
<stgraber> ldm is so clean compared to it :)
<stgraber> NX is using ssh for communication (so it's using expect too) but then it has its own protocol (implemented as a shell) with some more expect to in the end run a daemon on both side of the SSH link and use a ssh tunnel for data ;)
<sbalneav> No, I long ago gave up on looking under rocks for gross things that squiggle just for the fun of it :) I only do it as needs must.
<stgraber> the good thing they did is force a standard protocol rather than fight with PAM, the only issue is that they added a second layer of expect for that
<sbalneav> "If engineers built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization" :)
<stgraber> hehe ;)
<sbalneav> On a lighter note, I was down at Windsor Plywood today looking at 6" tongue-in-groove knotty-pine siding and flooring to finish the basement on my cottage over the spring break
<sbalneav> so, by end of march, I'll know if I can host the mini-hackfest :)
<stgraber> yeah !
<mhall119|work> anyone know a good bittorrent tracker for hosting a Qimo ISO?
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: heh, never hosted anything on BT.  Only ever downloaded ISO's :)
<sbalneav> Still no luck with hosting?
<mhall119|work> I used linuxtracker.org for 1.0, but their site isn't responding anymore
<mhall119|work> actually I did have luck, University of South Florida (where I'm going to school) is going to host a mirror
<stgraber> mhall119|work: I don't know of any good tracker, though once you find one, please give me a .torrent and I'll put one of my server so it seeds it (100Mb/s)
<mhall119|work> sure will
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: what about ibiblio?
<sbalneav> they maitain a huge archive of a lot of Linux ISO's
<mhall119|work> haven't contacted them yet, I think USF hosting should be enough, they have plenty of bandwidth
<mhall119|work> my non-USA mirrors seem to be doing okay
<mhall119|work> Qimo 2 Alpha 2 ISO is now available: http://www.quinncoincorporated.org/qimo-2.0-desktop-alpha2.iso
<mhall119|work> if anyone could help seed, that would be much appreciated
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: now that the Qimo packages are approved, what's the process for bugfixes?
<mhall119|work> stgraber: The Qimo ISO is up for seeding: http://www.quinncoincorporated.org/qimo-2.0-desktop-alpha2.iso
<mhall119|work> http://www.quinncoincorporated.org/qimo-2.0-desktop-alpha2.iso.torrent that is
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: bug fixes are *much* simpler than getting a new package in, especially since only one person needs to sponsor it, we'll talk about it a bit later, I'm just in the middle of a few things at the moment
<mhall119|work> sure, no problem
<mhall119|work> wasn't there talk about a Netbook edition of Edubuntu?
<highvoltage> stgraber: how did ltsp-livecd cause a ftbfs?
<stgraber> highvoltage: it was my fault, I called it debian/ltsp-livecd but the package is also called ltsp-livecd and so uses debian/ltsp-livecd/ as build directory
<stgraber> highvoltage: I moved it to debian/scripts/ltsp-livecd to workaround that issue
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah ok, thanks
#edubuntu 2010-02-19
<joerg> hi
<sbalneav> Eveving all
<joerg> sbalneav, found an answer? :D
<joerg> I am not even sure if I remember correctly what I asked you ^^
<sbalneav> Eurhg, sitting in a cafe after a full day of "Team Training" at work, waiting for my sons piano lesson to end.
<sbalneav> hold on...
<sbalneav> Yeah, the mail thing.  Well, at then end of the day, a mail sever's gotta have a drop box to deliver to.
<sbalneav> usually, that can be handled by procmail
<sbalneav> and procmail can call external programs
<sbalneav> so
<sbalneav> it wouldnt be to hard to set up a "school-newspaper" alias that delivers to a pipe
<sbalneav> the pipe's a program that looks up your group mappings in ldap via your custom schema
<sbalneav> and outputs a list of actual dropboxes to deliver to
<sbalneav> or, if it's a web only group
<sbalneav> could post the message via inserting into whatever your backend is.  Postgresql for ex.
<sbalneav> so I think that one could be worked around.
<joerg> yeah, it is postgres of course :)
<joerg> ok, that sounds great
<joerg> haven't really looked at procmail and stuff yet
<sbalneav> I mean, what you're wanting to do isn't MUCH different from a mailing list.
<joerg> I just wonder: do I need users? :)
<sbalneav> all that differes is the back end.
<joerg> I mean real posixAccounts?
<sbalneav> No
<joerg> if the school does not use LTSP?
<sbalneav> not so long as you provide a custom back end delivery program
<joerg> but the mailserver needs accounts, doesn't it?
<sbalneav> which is pretty easy
<sbalneav> Well, the mailserver can get it's accounts from ldap
<joerg> hmm
<joerg> yeah, and that don't need to be posixAccoutns?
<sbalneav> No, you can usually specify whatever you want your filter to be.
<joerg> and how does auth work? the user doesn't have a shadowPassword attribute then?!
<joerg> for the password as well?
<sbalneav> So long as you're not logging into unix itself, no.
<sbalneav> shadowPassword et al. are needed by pam
<joerg> yeah
<sbalneav> if you're not doing pam logins, you can "roll your own"
<sbalneav> I know with postfix, which is what we use, you can set up completely arbitrary user lookup mechanisms
<sbalneav> via the filters
<joerg> cool
<joerg> but maybe posix account is not that bad?!
<joerg> I mean, if people have their accounts already that will be posixAccounts I guess
<sbalneav> right
<joerg> so if I build it on top of possixAccount to be compatible with existing stuff....
<joerg> and tell them not to use pam_ldap if they don't need it...
<sbalneav> yeah, that would give you the widest dispesion
<joerg> that should be fine, shouldn't it?
<sbalneav> dispersion
<sbalneav> yeah, that would work fine
<joerg> yeah. I just remember what you said ages ago
<joerg> when we were discussing about creating users in a webbased frontend.
<joerg> which is absolutely needed for our setup.
<sbalneav> right, you want to make it as easy as you can for th widest audience.
<joerg> because 199 of 200 schools don't have the know how and resources to run ltsp or learn how to do that via ssh
<joerg> and if I do it like this: web based user management for posixAccounts which can be turned off
<joerg> and is not recommended if you have "real users" with pam_ldap / nss?
<joerg> because 499 of 500 schools will only want to use the web based stuff
<joerg> and the mailserver maybe
<joerg> to fetch their mail
<joerg> no, not even that
<joerg> but the webmail app will need to talk to a mailserver on behalf of the user
<joerg> that's our experience
<joerg> the current configuration (which is highly insecure, I know) has: webbased access, ftp access to home and group dirs, imap(s) to mailserver, samba to home and group dirs
<joerg> and maybe 5 out of thousand uses all these services.
<sbalneav> I know samba for sure's pretty dependent upon the posixAcccount model
<sbalneav> imap's dependent upon the model.
<joerg> sbalneav, hmm....but samba needs real users I think.
<joerg> sbalneav, I mean for filesystem access for example.
<joerg> that would be my next question
<joerg> how can a user that is not a unix user access the filesystem?
<joerg> the webapp can store it in the DB - what files belong to what user
<joerg> and what permissions are set
<Ahmuck-Sr> hrm, i've forgotten what i needed to make a folder under home writeable by all
<Ahmuck-Sr> nm, i just chmod the directory
<mgariepy> good morning all
<reynolds> can anyone tell me how to give my students read write permission to a shared folder on their desktop? right now whenever on user creates a file its locked to other users.
<sbalneav> You'll need a group to which all the students belong to, i.e. "students"
<sbalneav> Then create the directory owned root, with group ownership students
<sbalneav> then, set the setgid bit on the dir with chmod 2770 dir
<reynolds> ok ill try that. thanks
<sbalneav> then when they create files in the directory, they'll be owned by the group.
<sbalneav> Heading home for the day, back on later tonight.
<lightnin1> hey highvoltage
<lightnin1> nixternal?
<highvoltage> hey lightnin1
<lightnin1> Hey - I'm sitting here with Mako. We just uploaded a fixes for scratch.  Any chance of making it in? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/scratch
#edubuntu 2010-02-20
<lightnin1> highvoltage: Should be good to go.
<highvoltage> lightnin1: ok looking at it now...
<highvoltage> lightnin1: except the section says non-free/devel, I guess you meant multiverse/devel
<lightnin1> ooops! followed the lead of a Debian package. Mako hasn't done much multiverse. We'll make that change and upload again right now.
<highvoltage> I'll just add it as a comment as well...
<highvoltage> lightnin1: any chance you can add a watch file as well?
<lightnin1> highvoltage: There's no upstream tarball available... at the moment.
<lightnin1> highvoltage: This will be the first time this particular source package is published.
<highvoltage> lightnin1: ok
<joerg> hi
<joerg> the mailing list got busy :)
<joerg> almost as busy as this channel ^^
<lightnin> highvoltage: I'm back.
<joerg> great ^^
<highvoltage> joerg: indeed :)
<joerg> ltsp guys, is it possible to run a single app in a window on a windows machine or even in the browser? :)
<joerg> I just think of students who don't have openoffice at home for example
<joerg> and it would be cool if they could just surf to some central server and click some link "start openoffice" and a window pops up
<highvoltage> lightnin: I'm just goint to change it to multiverse and upload
<lightnin> highvoltage: already updated on revu.
<highvoltage> lightnin: great!
<highvoltage> lightnin: only change you made the archive?
<lightnin> yep
<highvoltage> uploading...
<highvoltage> technically we should be in feature freeze but let's see if they let it through
<lightnin> highvoltage:got my fingers crossed...it's only multiverse...
<lightnin> highvoltage: I gotta hit the road. Thanks for your help today! :)
<joerg> I want an ajax based NX client :P
<pyrosoft> I have just installed edubuntu onto hdd but my network wont establish a connection
<alkisg> wireless?
<joerg> evening
#edubuntu 2010-02-21
<Beasterly> Hi
<Beasterly> Is there some maths app on Edubuntu?
<Ahmuck-Sr> think midori would work as a browser better than firefox?
<pyrosoft> anyone here?
<alkisg> Wow, 17 seconds... why didn't we answer already?
<joerg> hey hey
#edubuntu 2011-02-15
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<coz_> hey guys  is this the correct flickr page for wallpapers    http://www.flickr.com/groups/edubuntu/
<doctormo> highvoltage: Hey there
<highvoltage> hi doctormo
<highvoltage> how are you doing?
<doctormo> The ArtTeam would like a quick email to the list confirming what we're up to.
<doctormo> So the current pool can be closed etc.
<highvoltage> ok, that is indeed overdue
#edubuntu 2011-02-16
<highvoltage> good morning
<stgraber> good morning highvoltage
<vmlintu> good afternoon
<vmlintu> are others having trouble with lucid's i845 x.org drivers?
 * highvoltage hasn't used i845 in a few years
<vmlintu> there seems to be still plenty of those in use in some places..
<highvoltage> they were really good and cheap cards
<vmlintu> I had no problems with them on hardy, but after lucid there seems to be more problems that I can count..
<vmlintu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/541492
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 541492 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Lucid) "MASTER: [i845] GPU lockup" [High,Triaged]
<vmlintu> it seems like nothing fixes them for real
<highvoltage> if I could wish for one big improvement in ubuntu, it would be less hardware support regressions between versions
<vmlintu> I couldn't agree more
<highvoltage> doctormo: finally got round to sending that email (had way too many things I've been doing since last night)
<doctormo> highvoltage: Great, thanks for that.
<doctormo> highvoltage: I can't find it atm, it must be working it's way
<doctormo> to me
<highvoltage> doctormo: ok, I cc'd you on your gmail account so that one should be there already
<highvoltage> I have another meeting in 45 minutes or so, so I won't be able to make the Edubuntu meeting (if there's going to be one)
<alkisg> Nah we refuse to have a meeting without you :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: seems like I'm not getting out of it that easy, that other meeting got cancelled :)
<alkisg> Heh :)
<highvoltage> Edubuntu meeting time!
<mhall119> no qimo progress at all to report ;9
<mhall119> :(
<mhall119> debmower still doesn't work, and I haven't gotten around to ripping apart an xubuntu iso yet
<mhall119> highvoltage: if push comes to shove, is there room on the DVD for Xfce?
<highvoltage> ditto what I said on -meeting :)
<mgariepy> :q
<mgariepy> hmm focus problem again...
#edubuntu 2011-02-17
<nukent> hello
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<mgariepy> ls
<highvoltage> mgariepy: No such file or directory
<mgariepy> the I/O wait here is quite high.. this system doen't respond fast enough i think..
#edubuntu 2011-02-18
<hajour> hai all
<hajour> anybody around here?
<hajour> i have copy some .so it will be more clear my question
<hajour> <hajour> will speechprogram also work in combination with a electronic school board
<hajour> <hajour> ?
<hajour> <hajour> that would be great is that is possible
<hajour> <hajour> is=if
<hajour> <JackyAlcine> I have no idea.
<hajour> <JackyAlcine> If it runs some sort of Linux kernel, perhaps.
<hajour> <hajour> can we test that somewhere or let test?
<hajour> <hajour> i go ask it in edubuntu JackyAlcine
#edubuntu 2011-02-19
<doctormo> highvoltage: Crunch time!
<lenutio> hi I am wondering if edubuntu has any kind of speed reader scripts or programs (for a person to read document faster?
<HedgeMage> lenutio: I don't know about one for teh default gnome desktop, but there's one in xfce
<HedgeMage> lenutio: the xfce dictionary app has a speed reading trainer in it.
<lenutio> is that for edubuntu? or xubuntu?
<lenutio> what abou the version two of 10.04?
<masai47> I just installed edubuntu and while I could connect to the internet in a live environment from a USB within the new install I can not, the nm-applet is not showing up, and I am not really sure what is wrong.
<alkisg> masai47: try opening a terminal and running: sudo dhclient eth0
<masai47> no such device
<alkisg> ifconfig -a
<alkisg> What devices are there?
<alkisg> eth1 etc?
<masai47> eth3
<alkisg> OK, try with eth3 then
<masai47> ok, that brought back some info
<alkisg> Now try: ping www.google.com
<alkisg> Do you have net access now?
<masai47> I think it is doing it
<alkisg> OK. Now, run this: cat /etc/network/interfaces
<alkisg> And put the results to pastebin
<alkisg> !pastebin
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<masai47> I think it is working now
<masai47> not sure how that changed anything
<alkisg> Did you put the result to pastebin?
<alkisg> If so, paste the link here.
<alkisg> The change we did was not permanent
<masai47> sorry, I am on internet from a different computer than the one that I am having difficulties with so no pastiing but it says auto eth3  iface eth3 inet static   then gives an address and netmask
<alkisg> It was just to get you temporary internet access
<alkisg> So that you can then paste that file and so that we can fix its problems
<alkisg> You still have errors in that file
<alkisg> In the next reboot again you'll have no internet access
<masai47> ok
<masai47> one moment on pastebin slow internet in africa
<alkisg> sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<alkisg> pastebin /etc/network/interfaces
<alkisg> This will put it to pastebin without opening a web browser
<masai47> paste.ubuntu.com/569194/
<alkisg> You're missing the gateway
<alkisg> Scroll up in the terminal
<alkisg> See the output of dhclient
<alkisg> And paste that to pastebin too
<masai47> sorry
<masai47> could we start over
<alkisg> OK
<alkisg> Run this command: ip -oneline -family inet route show
<alkisg> What's the output?
<masai47> paste.ubuntu.com/569196/
<alkisg> You need to modify your /etc/network/interfaces
<alkisg> So that it contains the following:
<alkisg> auto lo
<alkisg> iface lo inet loopback
<alkisg> auto eth3
<alkisg> iface eth3 inet static
<alkisg> address 192.168.1.254
<alkisg>  netmask 255.255.255.0
<alkisg> gateway 192.168.1.1
<masai47> paste.ubuntu.com/569197/
<alkisg> OK scratch that then
<masai47> ok, what is the quickest way of changing that file
<alkisg> address 192.168.1.10
<alkisg> gateway 192.168.1.254
<alkisg> ^^ those are the correct ones
<alkisg> If you have a GUI, use: sudo gedit /etc/network/interfaces
<masai47> I dont see a gateway line
<masai47> that number is under address
<alkisg> Yes, that's why you don't have internet access
<masai47> ok, just made that change so it now has address / gateway / netmask
<alkisg> address = .10, gateway = .254
<alkisg> Reboot the server
<alkisg> And see if it has internet access
<masai47> so if I restart it will work now
<masai47> ok
<masai47> I had dpkg installing a bunch of deb files, is there a way of having it stop?
<alkisg> No, don't
<alkisg> And also don't use dpkg directly, use either gdebi or apt
<masai47> ok
<masai47> I have been having to install edubuntu and a bunch of additional packages and updates on computers with no internet, and dpkg was all I had figured out on installing .dep files that had been downloaded by another computer
<masai47> I am way over my head on this but the next think I want to see if I can do is set up this computer so that it can act as a data server for a bunch of other computers so that user accounts and /home can be stored on it and the other computers look to it for log on credentials
<alkisg> masai47: that's done automatically, for ltsp thin and fat clients
<masai47> ok, I just restarted the computer and I cant seem to connect to the internet again
<masai47> running dhclient eth3 seemed to fix it
<alkisg> Before running dhclient check if your /etc/resolv.conf contains a valid dns server
<alkisg> Or, remove the static declaration from /etc/network/interfaces, and just use network-manager to manage your connections
<alkisg> Whichever seems easier for you.
<bluebows> I just installed Edubuntu on a computer.  When I try to open firefox I get an XML Parsing Error: undefined entity   Location: chrome:browser/content/browser.xul   line number 31, column 1:  <window id="main-window"
<HedgeMage> bluebows: have you tried googling that error?
#edubuntu 2011-02-20
<alkisg> Unfinished description at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-edubuntu-n-seed-review
<stgraber> hmm, indeed, fixed.
<highvolt1ge> heh
<mhall119> highvoltage: have you had a chance to do anything with debmower?
<highvoltage> mhall119: yep, worked on it a bit on Friday, busy implementing the LXC parts that will isolate everything from the host, not completed yet but it's happening :)
<Firemouth> hello
<Firemouth> i'm having some performance problems with client computers using edubuntu
<Firemouth> i have two identical laptops, one is the server and one is booting off the network
<Firemouth> im trying to use Tux Typing
<Firemouth> it works fine on the server laptop
<Firemouth> but its a slide show on the client
<Firemouth> anyone have any suggestions on how to improve the performace on the client laptop?
<Firemouth> maybe a step in the right direction... i verified the server is connected at 100mbits
<Firemouth> is there a way i can check to see what speed the client is connected to the network?
<Firemouth> it _should_ be connected at the same speed being the same hardware but i'd like to verify it so i can eliminate that as being a source of the problem
<alkisg> Firemouth: are you using LTSP?
<Firemouth> yes
<alkisg> Do you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in lts.conf?
<Firemouth> i do not know, i will check, do you know where i'd find that file to save me some time looking for it? :)
<alkisg> Sure, do this:
<alkisg> sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
<alkisg> And put the following into that file, if it's empty:
<alkisg> [Default]
<alkisg> LDM_DIRECTX=True
<alkisg> Then reboot the client, you should see great improvement.
<alkisg> BUT there's a security cost, so after trying it, go and read the ltsp docs
<Firemouth> its a local lan so security isn't a concern
<Firemouth> k got it in there, rebooting client
<Firemouth> hmm
<Firemouth> not seeing any improvement
<Firemouth> do i need to reboot anything on the server?
<Firemouth> i did a full reboot of the client
<alkisg> Just the client
<Firemouth> hm
<alkisg> On the client, open a gnome terminal
<alkisg> There, run this command: ltsp-localapps xterm
<alkisg> An xterm will open
<alkisg> On that xterm, run this command: getltscfg -a
<alkisg> And paste the contents
<Firemouth> says its not currently installed
<alkisg> You missed something
<alkisg> Did an xterm open?
<Firemouth> sorry i must be missing something
<Firemouth> i did Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal
<Firemouth> are you looking for something different?
<Firemouth> oh crap
<Firemouth> i missed a step, sorry
<alkisg> :)
<Firemouth> ok
<Firemouth> got the xterm jup
<Firemouth> up*
<alkisg> That's called a "local xterm". Run that `getltscfg -a` command there.
<Firemouth> LDM_DIRECTX="True"
<Firemouth> export LDM_DIRECTX
<alkisg> OK. Continue with: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
<Firemouth> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: nVidia Corporation G72M [GeForce Go 7400] [10de:01d8] (reva1)
<Firemouth> Subsystem: Sony Corporation Device [104d:81e6]
<Firemouth> Kernel driver in use: nouveau
<alkisg> OK, I don't see anything bad there
<Firemouth> is there a way to confirm the client is connected @ 100mbits ?
<alkisg> E.g. you should be able to watch full screen video with no lost frames
<alkisg> Sure, with the ip command
<alkisg> Let me find the exact syntax...
<alkisg> (so that you don't have to install ethtool...)
<Firemouth> oh
<Firemouth> already installed it
<alkisg> In the chroot?
<Firemouth> not sure, i did sudo apt-get install ethtool on the server
<alkisg> Then nope :)
<Firemouth> hehe k
<alkisg> Hmmm more difficult than I thought :D
<alkisg> OK, try this:
<Firemouth> yeah i was playing with it, not getting anywhere
<alkisg> Open lts.conf again, and add this at its bottom:
<Firemouth> k
<alkisg> SCREEN_02=shell
<alkisg> Reboot the client.
<alkisg> When it boots, press alt+ctrl+f2
<alkisg> There, run: apt-get install ethtool
<alkisg> And then: ethtool eth0
<Firemouth> k
<Firemouth> installing...
<Firemouth> or so i thought, doing an update
<Firemouth> thats better
<alkisg> (the installation there is not permanent, it's the exported disk which is like a tmpfs )
<Firemouth> or not
<Firemouth> ah
<Firemouth> ok well its not able to get it
<Firemouth> :-/
<Firemouth> it can pign google
<Firemouth> so dns / routing / internet access is good
<Firemouth> went in just fine on the server
<alkisg> apt-get update && apt-get install ethtool, can't get ethtool?
<Firemouth> trying
<Firemouth> i ran those two separately already thought
<Firemouth> update then install
<alkisg> OK
<alkisg> If your server has the same arch, try scp user@server:/usr/sbin/ethtool /tmp/
<Firemouth> Failed to fetch http://ftpmaster.internal/ubuntu/pool/main/e/ethtool/ethtool_2.6.34-2_i386.deb Size mismatch
<Firemouth> that domain name looks wrong eh
<alkisg> Ah it's your sources.list
<alkisg> You can scp it from the server if you want
<Firemouth> k trying that
<alkisg> /etc/apt/sources.list
<Firemouth> hm
<Firemouth> no such file or directory
<Firemouth> (on the ethtool)
<alkisg> Try `ls /usr/sbin/ethtool` on the server
<Firemouth> no such file or dir
<alkisg> Didn't you say you installed it?
<alkisg> sudo apt-get install ethtool
<Firemouth> got the sources
<Firemouth> sure did
<Firemouth> yeah i used it to cehck the link speed on the server
<alkisg> which ethtool
<alkisg> That tells you where it's installed
<alkisg> It should be in /usr/sbin/ethtool
<Firemouth> /sbin/ethtool
<Firemouth> im trying to do the update / install again
<alkisg> Is that edubuntu? Which version?
<alkisg> In my Lucid, it's in /usr/sbin/ethtool
<Firemouth> yup, edubuntu
<Firemouth> 10.10
<Firemouth> but
<Firemouth> i got the ethtool installed on the client by copying the source file
<Firemouth> showing 100mbits
<Firemouth> so thats not it
<alkisg> Right. So you're as good as it gets
<alkisg> E.g. if you try to play a divx video on the client, you should be able to watch it full screen with no dropped frames
<Firemouth> interesting
<Firemouth> tux typing doestn want to seem to do it
<Firemouth> i'd like to try testing something like you're saying, any suggestions how to easily test the video liek you're saying?
<Firemouth> try youtube or something?
<alkisg> Btw seems that ethtool got moved from lucid to maverick: http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/i386/ethtool/filelist vs http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick/i386/ethtool/filelist
<alkisg> So that's why you couldn't find it in /usr/sbin/ethtool
<Firemouth> ahhh
<alkisg> Not flash
<alkisg> Open something in totem
<Firemouth> k, gotta erboot the client, i removed taht shell line
<alkisg> No need keep it till you get it right
<alkisg> You can return to your GUI with alt+ctrl+f7
<Firemouth> oh
<Firemouth> hm there arent any sample videos on here are there?
<Firemouth> (this is basically a fresh install)
<alkisg> No idea, just get one from the net, e.g. http://www.greektube.org/download.php?vid=89683
<Firemouth> k downloading
<Firemouth> hm
<Firemouth> needs some codecs
<Firemouth> tries to install them but fails
<Firemouth> untrusted packages
<Firemouth> and just fails lol
<Firemouth> lemme try something else
<Firemouth> and im drawing a total blank lol
<Firemouth> k i think i got soemthign to test
<Firemouth> gimmie just a few min
<Firemouth> i have an avi and wmv
<Firemouth> good grief
<Firemouth> i cant install these plugins
<Firemouth> gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly
<Firemouth> gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg
<Firemouth> gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3
<Firemouth> ok, gpupdate looks like it fixed taht problem
<Firemouth> wow
<Firemouth> there it goes
<Firemouth> watching clerks no problem
<Firemouth> thats amazing
<alkisg> Right. So your setup is fine.
<alkisg> Anything else is app specific
<Firemouth> well that just sucks then, lol
<alkisg> E.g. full screen flash sucks because it doesn't use XV
<Firemouth> gotcha
<alkisg> SDL also sucks sometimes (tux* uses SDL afaik)
<Firemouth> i guess i dont get it then, rhetorical question.... why would they package edubuntu with tux typing if it cant be used via thin client...
<Firemouth> unless it just wasnt meant to be used that way?
<Firemouth> i'm new to this virtual desktop stuff so i'm not well versed on the limitations
<Firemouth> this is just amazing to me though
<Firemouth> streaming a movie
<Firemouth> (i'm easily amazed at times)
<alkisg> That's not streaming in the usual sense
<alkisg> It's just remote X
<Firemouth> ah
<Firemouth> however it's doing it, its doing it ;)
<alkisg> So while the movie is encoded at e.g. 1 mbps, you're using 50 mbps
<alkisg> Because the movie travels unencoded, uncompressed
<Firemouth> interesting
<Firemouth> server is holding steady @ 10.9mbits
<alkisg> So all the decoding happens on the server, so your client could be e.g. just 300 mhz
<alkisg> Then it's a small movie. You can use any movie up to 95 mbps with your current network
<Firemouth> yeah its a 600mbish file
<Firemouth> not the best copy, hehe
<Firemouth> sweet
<Firemouth> well thank you for all your help
<alkisg> np
#edubuntu 2012-02-13
<alkisg> highvoltage: the new epoptes bugfixing release is available in precise, in debian and in our ppa, so it's a good time for us to do that blog post you wanted - no hurries of course
<highvoltage> alkisg: whohoo! great :)
#edubuntu 2012-02-14
<itomas> hello, could anyone help with a problem with a thin client not booting due to nbd_server problems?
<itomas> thx
<alkisg> stgraber: please do the following changes to the ltsp packaging:
<alkisg> * debian/ltsp-client-core.install:client/initramfs/hooks/ltsp usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks
<alkisg> - debian/ltsp-client-core.install:client/initramfs/scripts/ltsp_nbd usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts
<alkisg> - debian/rules:cp $(CURDIR)/client/initscripts/ltsp-setup $(CURDIR)/debian/ltsp-client-core.ltsp-client-setup.init
<alkisg> ...we won't be using ltsp_nbd and ltsp-setup anymore :)
<alkisg> (and if vagrantc wants he can completely remove ltsp-setup)
<alkisg> Ah and: - rules:	dh_installinit --name=ltsp-client-setup --no-start -u"start 32 S ."
<stgraber> alkisg: ok, I'll have a look
<stgraber> alkisg: so should I remove all of these you listed above?
<alkisg> stgraber: yes
<alkisg> The line with the star * is a modification
<alkisg> hooks/ltsp_nbd renamed to hooks/ltsp
<stgraber> alkisg: right, I did that one already I think (in the latest PPA build)
<alkisg> So the known problems for now are:
<alkisg> 1) broken default SCREEN_07, I'm fixing it now,
<alkisg> 2) no nbd-proxy wrapper, will do that next,
<alkisg> 3) borked shutdown, we'll need again upstart jobs for reboot/shutdown, but not the old ones, new ones to do nbd-client -d; echo o > sysrq trigger etc
<alkisg> So that no nbd-server processes are left on the server
<alkisg> As now that nbd-server is not started from inetd, it takes 2 hours for the connections to get killed
<stgraber> ok, I can restore the old ones and add nbd-client -d
<alkisg> Right, although it would be nice if they could somehow wait a bit until the ssh + epoptes connections are closed, I'll see if I can find a clean way for that
<alkisg> Killing epoptes should do it, not sure about ssh
<alkisg> pkill -f '^epoptes-client \+m'
<stgraber> alkisg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/841781/
<stgraber> oops
<stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/841784/
<stgraber>  /dev/mapp will be replaced by /dev/nbd btw
<stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/841786/
<alkisg> stgraber: hmmm if nbd-proxy is killed, then nbd-client will cause a disk access error, no?
<stgraber> probably indeed, I guess I'll need to move it to a separate kill after nbd-client
<alkisg> Also, exec reboot won't work unless you cache it first, better use the REISUB magic
<alkisg> And I'm using `exec -a` to run epoptes-client, so killall won't work, please use the pkill I wrote above
<alkisg> echo o > /proc/sysrq-trigger
<alkisg> I've tested that that works even without a root nbd connection active
<stgraber> alkisg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/841792/
<alkisg> I think killall isn't available in thin chroots, let me see if I have one...
<stgraber> alkisg: I guess these two should be moved upstream actually and applied to the overlay at boot time
<alkisg> stgraber: ah, yes, right
<alkisg> So leave them to me, I'll put them to init-ltsp.d/common
<alkisg> or /ubuntu, better
<stgraber> alkisg: because of an overlayfs bug, you'll need to call 'initctl reload-configuration || true' after writing the jobs to /etc/init/
<stgraber> alkisg: or actually, after doing any change to /etc/init
<alkisg> stgraber: err why? It appears to work fine so far
<alkisg> We do that in the init=/sbin/init-ltsp phase, right?
<stgraber> ah right, doing it before starting init works indeed, sorry ;)
<alkisg> :)
<stgraber> the bug only appears when init is already started
<alkisg> Yeah I would worry if we were to do that
<alkisg> So once I commit the default screen fix (really soon), ltsp will be bootable again, so a new package will be nice.
<stgraber> ok, just ping me when you need it
<alkisg> ty
<alkisg> stgraber: I fixed many problems, I think it's time for a new package if you please.
<alkisg> Next goal, nbd-proxy-wrapper :)
<stgraber> alkisg: ok, uploading one now
<alkisg> ty
<stgraber> alkisg: next time you push something to trunk, can you do "bzr tag current --delete" before "bzr push"?
<stgraber> alkisg: current shouldn't exist in the LP branch, it's just a local tag I use for snapshots ;) but it requires a commit to drop it
<alkisg> Sure
<alkisg> In about an hour, along with the nbd-proxy wrapper script
<stgraber> alkisg: uploaded
#edubuntu 2012-02-15
<alkisg> stgraber: ping, whenever you're ready for some nbd configuration chat.. :)
<stgraber> alkisg: ok, give me 10 minutes to catch up on what happened during the night ;)
<alkisg> :)
<alkisg> I decided to not wait for the chat, to push the changes, and if you don't like them we can just revert them
<alkisg> The idea is that 2 configuration files will be static, /etc/nbd-server/config and /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/swap.conf
<alkisg> ...and will be generated the first time ltsp-update-image is ran, and after that the nbd-server will be started
<alkisg> We could ship them with the ltsp package as conffiles as well if we wanted
<alkisg> (although it'd make more sense for the nbd package to ship the /etc/nbd-server/config file itself)
<stgraber> alkisg: why do we need to touch /etc/nbd-server/config?
<alkisg> stgraber: it doesn't exist by default, does it?
<alkisg> Ah, nbd-server doesn't have a default includedir directive
<alkisg> So it ships an /etc/nbd-server/conf.d dir without using it
<alkisg> And we need to put an includedir directive for nbd-server to start at all
<alkisg> At least that's what strace and the man page told me
<stgraber> alkisg: can't you just copy /usr/share/nbd-server/nbd-server.conf.tmpl ?
<stgraber> alkisg: so basically checking if /etc/nbd-server/config exists, if it does, don't do anything (we don't want to touch existing files), if it doesn't, then copy /usr/share/nbd-server/nbd-server.conf.tmpl to /etc/nbd-server/config and add the LTSP stuff in .d
<alkisg> stgraber: and the swap.conf too, and start nbd-server
<alkisg> I already put the code for those in ltsp-update-image
<stgraber> right
<alkisg> So I only need to put the `cp`, ok
<alkisg> stgraber: a policy problem though
<alkisg> We shouldn't have static filenames in /tmp
<alkisg> And I'm using /tmp/nbd-swap/XXX, static names
<alkisg> ...because nbdrootd doesn't run as root, and can't create them in /var/run/ or elsewhere
<stgraber> right, doesn't seem too bad though
<alkisg> OK, let's leave it that way, if vagrantc has a better idea we can update it
<stgraber> alkisg: one more case we need to deal with sadly, is the case where we already have an ltsp generated /etc/nbd-server/config, and overwrite it in that case
<alkisg> stgraber: does that have static content, something we can grep to see if we need to overwrite it?
 * alkisg was still on 10.04 until a few months ago...
<stgraber> alkisg: not that I can see, we mostly have ltsp- in the share name but that's not necessarily the case
<stgraber> alkisg: easiest would be to md5sum /usr/share/nbd-server/nbd-server.conf.tmpl and /etc/nbd-server/config
<stgraber> alkisg: if they don't match, ask if we should override it (and mention that you have to, if you're upgrading from an older LTSP)
<alkisg> Hmm that will be annoying, on every ltsp-update-image, if the user puts something else in his config
<alkisg> Better check the file date and ask?
<alkisg> Or at least grep for ltsp inside that file, and issue a warning with big letters
<stgraber> alkisg: well, we could make the check a bit clever and ask only if:
<stgraber> alkisg: /etc/nbd-server/config exists and doesn't match /usr/share/nbd-server/nbd-server.conf.tmpl and /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/ltsp doesn't exist
<stgraber> so that should only do it the first time the user runs ltsp-update-image then
<stgraber> as after that we'll have the ltsp file in con.d
<stgraber> *conf.d
<alkisg> stgraber: I thought /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/swap.conf would be a better name.. more generic than ltsp
<alkisg> I'm using that in the current code
<stgraber> alkisg: well, that's for the swap but what are you using for the root device?
<alkisg> The name of the image
<alkisg> E.g. i386.img => ltsp_i386.conf
<alkisg> ltsp_amd64.conf etc
<alkisg> (at least that's what I was planning to, I can't run ltsp-update-image currently and I didn't do any testing)
<stgraber> ok, so have ltsp-update-image look for the ltsp_$arch.conf one
<alkisg> Why not swap.conf, which is static?
<alkisg> arch will vary on each ltsp-update-image call, if the user has many chroots...
<alkisg> so he'll get prompted many times
<stgraber> hmm, right, I'm just trying to think how people will remove the swap stuff
<alkisg> We can easily have an /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf option to disable swap
<alkisg> Without removing that file
<stgraber> ok, so if we have an option of disabling swap without removing swap.conf, we can indeed check for swap.conf
<stgraber> I'm still not sure if I prefer swap.conf or ltsp_swap.conf, considering that as you just pointed out, the config of the swap stuff is in /etc/ltsp/ and the swap stuff is shipped with ltsp ;)
<alkisg> The manpage says that the nbd-server prerun script can deny the image serving
<stgraber> I guess ltsp_swap.conf would actually be easier for packagers, that way when purging ltsp we could rm /etc/nbd/config/ltsp_*
<alkisg> We can also just put it as a conffile in the ltsp package
<alkisg> And another way to disable it is to just empty it
<alkisg> Or to comment out the lines
<alkisg> We can also say so in the file header
<alkisg> It'll even be preserved on package upgrades, etc
<stgraber> well, no, because if we make it a conf file, we can't use it to know if /etc/nbd-server/config has been updated...
<stgraber> alkisg: ok, why don't we:
<stgraber>  - ship /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/ltsp_swap.conf in the package as conffile
<stgraber>  - have ltsp-update-image look for /etc/nbd-server/.ltsp_converted
 * alkisg likes nbdswapd.conf a bit better
<alkisg> (although that will have the same name as /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf, so never mind :D)
<stgraber>  - if it's not there, then prompt the user and copy /usr/share/nbd-server/nbd-server.conf.tmpl over /etc/nbd-server/config, then touch .ltsp_converted
<alkisg> Better yet, let's pretend to keep a backup of the old file :D
<alkisg> Instead of touching
<alkisg> So, /etc/nbd-server/config.ltsp_converted
<stgraber> we could move /etc/nbd-server/config to /etc/nbd-server/config.before-ltsp
<stgraber> (.ltsp_converted sounds like it's the file being used by nbd, .before-ltsp makes it clear it's a backup)
<alkisg> The only bad thing is that the user won't be able to get rid of that file without getting the prompt again
<stgraber> but then we need to also do the md5sum because people will likely remove /etc/nbd-server/config.before-ltsp when doing some cleanup and we don't want to remove it
<alkisg> stgraber: why don't we do the rename in postinst?
<alkisg> Check the version being upgraded, and if it's the last shipped ltsp, do it
<alkisg> I have some code in epoptes.postinst doing that
<stgraber> because we don't run ltsp-update-image in postinst, so that'd break people's system on upgrade
<alkisg> Just a rename
<alkisg> mv /etc/nbd-server/config /etc/nbd-server/config.ltsp-backup
<alkisg> Then ltsp-update-image will create a new one
<alkisg> (whenever the user calls it)
<stgraber> hmm, right, I can do that, it's not really clean and some people will complain, but the rest of LTSP is even more hackish usually, so ...
<alkisg> Hehe true
<alkisg> So we'll need to tag a new version, and use dpkg --compare-versions against that
<stgraber> yeah
<stgraber> well, I could check for -gt 5.2.16+
<stgraber> or actually -gt 5.2.16+bzrXXXX where XXXX is when we finish the conf.d changes
<stgraber> so even PPA packages will work
<alkisg> Nice
<kleewyck> What's the current method or installing LTSP on Edubuntu? Just use the normal Edubuntu DVD then install ltsp on top?
<alkisg> stgraber: that pad.ubuntu.com is very annoying, it needs authentication every few hours, and it doesn't even get me to the correct page after the authentication, etc...  we should use pad.ubuntu-uk.org next time
#edubuntu 2012-02-16
<alkisg> stgraber: please upload packages for *both* ldm and ltsp to your ppa, so that I do a final clean ltsp-build-client test when I come back in about 3 hours from now.
<alkisg> For the reboot/shutdown problem, I think the cleanest thing to do at this point is to create an init-ltsp.d script which will mv /sbin/nbd-client /sbin/nbd-client.real, and create a new /sbin/nbd-client wrapper,
<alkisg> which will check if the parameters are "nbd-client -d /dev/nbd0", then "echo o > sysrq" etc, else chain to the real nbd-client
<alkisg> I think `runlevel` will tell us if we need to reboot or shutdown
<alkisg> I'll test + commit that when I get back in about 3 hours
<stgraber> alkisg: ldm? I'm not planning an ldm upload today, the one in the archive should be good (unless you recently pushed something to ldm-trunk that we absolutely need)
<alkisg> stgraber: I removed the -fp from all poweroff/reboots
<alkisg> So that clients shut down properly - although we still need an nbd-client override
<stgraber> alkisg: ok, is that all? if so, you should ask vagrant to push it to Debian when he has a moment and I'll sync it as bugfix
<alkisg> Yup...
<alkisg> I think the nbd-client override is a reasonable way to have clean shutdowns, until the nbd package is updated to handle it itself...
<alkisg> I'm not sure if I'll have the time to do it before featurefreeze today, but that's a bugfix too, isn't it?
<stgraber> I guess we can have it pass as bugfix yeah...
<alkisg> Meh I think I'll just write a new /etc/init.d/nbd-client service, that we'll use to override the current one, and then propose it to Wouter so that it eventually goes upstream
<alkisg> That /etc/nbd-client configuration file looks horrible
#edubuntu 2012-02-18
<pdk_knight> First time using irc. Any one please help on edubuntu menu profiles
<alkisg> pdk_knight: hi, on saturdays not a lot of people monitor irc, so you may want to try on a weekday instead
<pdk_knight> Thanks will do
#edubuntu 2012-02-19
<kedarm> Hi! When I try to log in to my Ubuntu box and enter a wrong password, it takes a llllong time to come back. Where should I start looking to diagnose this problem?
<kedarm> It eventually does come back and give me the login window, but it really sits there for long verifying the password ...
#edubuntu 2013-02-11
<oo-dragon> just wondering out there.  what do people use to remotely manage their edubuntu servers? I have a LTSP server and I don't want to mess up the SSH / terminal clients by accident
<netrunner_> Hi
<netrunner_> highvoltage: You there brother?
<Nadeem> It is me
<Nadeem> Need some help regarding ltsp
<Nadeem> I installed edubuntu 12.04.1 on a system in my lab, at the time of installing, i selected ltsp.
<Nadeem>  did a custom installation and made it dual boot with Windows 7, Installation finished, booted. Now when boothing other  systems in the lab, they just no boot from lan
<Nadeem>  The system had only 1 NIC, and I skipped in installation,did that mess it up. Or am I doing something wrong
<designbybeck> I have to vent real quick. This made me sick. Microsoft impacting lives in education. http://www.microsoft.com/about/corporatecitizenship/en-us/youthspark/spotlight/jeremymoore/
<designbybeck> I wish Microsoft would stop corrupting our students. I wish Microsoft would stop paying off our governments and educators!
<designbybeck> *sigh*
#edubuntu 2013-02-12
<netrunner_> Hi
<netrunner_> Anyone active here, need to ask some stuff about installing edubuntu in a lab?
<highvoltage> hi netrunner_
<netrunner_> highvoltage: Hi brother
<netrunner_> It is me kamil
<highvoltage> hi, welcome back
<netrunner_> So yesterday I installed Edubuntu on one of the systems in my lab
<highvoltage> yeah you said you had a problem setting up ltsp but found the problem?
<netrunner_> in installer I selected ltsp with gnome fallback(so that it works netter)
<netrunner_> better*
<netrunner_> All the systems in the lab have only 1 nic
<netrunner_> can I get ltsp working?
<highvoltage> yep
<netrunner_> How?
<highvoltage> in the installer you can select the one nic you have while installing LTSP
<netrunner_> Did that
<highvoltage> it might warn that it's in use
<highvoltage> but you can continue still
<highvoltage> netrunner_: and then? didn't it get configured?
<netrunner_> No
<netrunner_> I skipped in Installation
<netrunner_> could that be the reason
<netrunner_> When I selected other machines to boot from lan
<netrunner_> it will not pick the the image
<highvoltage> hmm, not sure what you mean.
<netrunner_> I mean the installation fionished
<netrunner_> I booted the edubuntu installation
<netrunner_> booted fine, logged in
<netrunner_> then I booted the other systems in lab and set it to boot from lan
<netrunner_> they should work right?
<netrunner_> Cause in ltsp--live they worked like that, I started ltsp-live, booted other lab systems and they showed edubuntu login screen
<highvoltage> ah right
<highvoltage> so when you install edubuntu, there's an option that you have to enable to get LTSP installed on the edubuntu system
<highvoltage> this one: http://edubuntu.org/sites/default/files/docimages/install-precise/030-edubuntu-options-oneiric.png
<highvoltage> so you have to tick the "Install" checkbox there for it to work
<netrunner_> Bro I did that
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> so, what I'd suggest is
<highvoltage> check the network configuration on your ltsp server, check what the IP address is
<highvoltage> and check /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf to see that it's in the same range (should be 192.168.0.254 with the same range in dhcpd.conf, by default)
<netrunner_> The network showed no wired connection, I had to create one
<highvoltage> ah
<highvoltage> ok, it will probably work if you set the server ip to 192.168.0.254 and reboot
<netrunner_> I just don't remember the message it was giving in the network indicator
<netrunner_> okay
<highvoltage> otherwise, if you want to use another IP, you would need ot update the dhcpd.conf and run ltsp-update-sshkeys
<netrunner_> okay I will try this
<netrunner_> brother at what times can I find you online? I will try this and report to you. :-)
<netrunner_> Okay brother, I will taking your leave now.
<netrunner_> will be*
<netrunner_> :
<netrunner_> :)
<netrunner_> Thanks for the help.
<murthy> herwig++ v2.6.2 ftbfs. this is a partial build log http://paste.kde.org/669782/
<vow> i need help
#edubuntu 2013-02-14
<smeag0l> good morning
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'm writing the skeleton of the announcement.
<stgraber> highvoltage: http://www.edubuntu.org/news/12.04.2-release
<highvoltage> stgraber: I guess I would just remove the insert some stuff here part
<stgraber> highvoltage: ok, so simply not quote anything in this one?
<highvoltage> (well, I just did it)
<highvoltage> stgraber: unless you have some quotes gathered? I don't have anything atm
<stgraber> highvoltage: nope, was wondering if you had any. As you don't, it's fine to just drop the paragraph altogether
<stgraber> highvoltage: alright. I'll prepare the mirror and the e-mail announcement. Looks like we're getting close to release as we need to get 12.04.2 out before alpha2 can be released (and we want both done by EOD UK time if possible)
<highvoltage> stgraber: who besides kubuntu is doing alpha2? ubuntu core?
<stgraber> highvoltage: ubuntu cloud
<stgraber> (just the cloud images, not server)
<Tstoner98133> Hi!  I am installing edubuntu-12.04.1-dvd-amd64 on a Toshiba Satellite C655-S5212 64 bit.  the dvd installs and I come up to a graphic background screen wiht a big satellite (coincidence?) and a login prompt.  Apparently I need credentials at this point?  which I can't find reference to.  or something wrong?   Help?
<Tstoner98133> I can now see that I did not go through the full installation process.  I selected the language as the first step, and then the next screen I see is the GUI login.  I am sure there are directions regarding this problem but I dont know where to look.  Any help :-)
<highvoltage> Tstoner98133: hmm, while installing it will ask you for a username and password
<highvoltage> Tstoner98133: if the setup didn't complete, it might be a good idea to restart the installation, otherwise who knows what else didn't finish up :)
<Tstoner98133_> i tried it twice with the same result.  boot from the CD.  select language.  whir whir.  GUI login screen.  Seeing the installation guide there are a number of setup screens which should appear but don't
<stgraber> sounds like you're either having an extremely weird installation bug (can you try installing in english?) or your DVD/iso image is somehow corrupted
<Tstoner98133> I did select english as the install.  I saw something referring to a hardware problem causing the install to go to a shell prompt, but I assumed that would be a CLI not a GUI prompt
<stgraber> ok, so english is usually pretty well tested, so it's not a generic installer problem at least :)
<stgraber> so I'd recommend re-downloading the image (you may as well take 12.04.2 then, it'll be released in a couple of hours) and try burning on a new media
<stgraber> you can find the 12.04.2 images at: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/12.04.2/release/
<highvoltage> Tstoner98133: weird, that's something we've never seen before. and you wrote it to DVD, not a CD? might be good to do a test of the disc to make sure it downloaded and burned correctly
<Tstoner98133> thats a good plan, I will try that
#edubuntu 2013-02-15
<ssbob> howdy folks, got a Edubuntu 13.04 question. Trying to test it on vbox and after the install I am unable to login as myself or the guest login
<ssbob> some message displays on the screen but it flashes back to the login GUI too fast to read it
<phillw> ssbob: as the topic says, please be patient.
<ssbob> of course
<phillw> edubuntu is highly regarded, but has few 'full time' people.
<stgraber> ssbob: what kind of session was that? unity or fallback?
<ssbob> unity
<ssbob> the default, this is right after a full install.
<stgraber> well, you can choose between the two during the install, so that's why I asked ;)
<stgraber> anyway, can you try with fallback? (may be called Gnome Classic)
<ssbob> ok I will try it
<stgraber> you should be able to select it from the login screen
<ssbob> yep thanks for the help
<ssbob> thanks stgraber I figured it out, GNOME Fallback was kicking me back to the login screen, while the other two options seemed to work. Odd
<stgraber> I'll mention that to highvoltage since he's been doing fallback stuff lately
<ssbob> I will file the bug and indicate what I found
<phillw> ssbob: thanks. there is a simple rule for bugs... discussing a bug does not raise a bug report :)
<phillw> stgraber: as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Overview/Install_Bugs would ssbob be best to report this as an 'x' bug?
<stgraber> phillw: no
<stgraber> file it against edubuntu-desktop for now
<phillw> stgraber: thanks.
<phillw> ssbob: did you get that?
<ssbob> ok thanks
<phillw> stgraber: thanks for your time on this. Whilst I am firmly in favour of edubuntu and am shamed for not being able to spend more time on the team, I will help out wherever I can.
#edubuntu 2013-02-16
<ssbob> stgraber, I created bug 1126782 for the edubuntu desktop bug discussed earlier, FYI.
<ubottu> bug 1126782 in edubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "desktop won't load with gnome failback " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1126782
<stgraber> thanks
<murthy> herwig FTBFS, here is the partial buildlog http://paste.kde.org/673010/
<murthy> *herwig++
#edubuntu 2013-02-17
<vow_> hi
<vow_> which is the folder for ebooks on ubuntu?
<vow_> ebooks downloaded with ubuntu software center?
#edubuntu 2014-02-10
<highvoltage> debian 7.4 changelog entry:
<highvoltage> "lxc: Use latest upstream provided lxc-debian; add rsync to Recommends"
<highvoltage> stgraber: glad someone went ahead and just did a nmu on that ^^^ :P
<highvoltage> "11:49 < buxy> but now someone should step up to take over lxc, it's not sustainable to keep it  maintained the way it is
<highvoltage> "
<highvoltage> stgraber: I wish I could twist your arm to maintain lxc in debian too
<stgraber> highvoltage: so did dba give up on it?
<highvoltage> stgraber: looking at the debian changelog it doesn't seem so
<highvoltage> stgraber: but it seems like mostly everyone is keen for someone else to hijack it
<stgraber> highvoltage: well, I don't have any kind of authority to hijack the package from him (not being DD or even DM) but if there's a reasonably simple way for me to take over maintenance, sure I'll do it. Ubuntu now has a perfectly clean package (no patch, no custom config or init scripts, ...) so the exact same could be pushed to Debian and synced.
<highvoltage> stgraber: cool. well I'm keeping an eye on it will let you know if a gap opens :)
#edubuntu 2014-02-12
<stgraber> highvoltage: hey, so for Edubuntu Server in 14.04, you may have noticed I've been slightly busy with other things and I doubt I'll have time to do everything I wanted for this release.
<stgraber> highvoltage: I think we should at least drop any integration with the installer and have it supported in-archive instead
<stgraber> this would save us most of the actual problematic work (as installer changes require translations, tend to be fragile and can't be SRUed)
<ogra_> you mean you plan to get sleep before the release ?
 * ogra_ shakes head .... the youth these days ... 
<ogra_> :)
<stgraber> I doubt I'll get to sleep much but unfortunately I haven't found a way to clone myself yet or find a way to add extra hours in a day :)
<ogra_> yeah, i dont get why mark doesnt invest lots of $$$ into a cloning research company ... it would help a lot in canonical too ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok. I tried to get it going so that I could fix some problems but didn't understand what was breaking at first glance. maybe when you do get a chance to work on it you can show me around a bit if there's enough time?
<highvoltage> I took 3 days off from today to tomorrow, but I always find myself in more unexpected trouble
<highvoltage> like tomorrow I have to go give a class on licensing to law students interested in spreading creative commons in africa
<highvoltage> and ended up spending the whole day preparing for that.
#edubuntu 2014-02-13
<stgraber> highvolt1ge: just uploaded a new samba4 and edubuntu-server, between those two you should be able to bootstrap a working environment (I just did here with some hacked up packages)
<stgraber> services that are confirmed to work are samba4, manager webuid and dns
<stgraber> ltsp gets bootstraped fine but isn't integrated with the dhcp yet and I haven't tested the dhcp server yet (though it's running, so at least the config is valid)
<mgariepy> stgraber, ping()
<mgariepy> edubuntu menu-editor, le menu bar est pas cachÃ© par unity par hazard ?
<stgraber> elle peut arriver dans le global menu j'imagine, mais Ã§a c'est normal
<mgariepy> stgraber, tu utilise unity toi ?
<mgariepy> tu peux valider que c'est bien la ?
<stgraber> je vois deux menu, File et Help avec deux entrÃ©es chaque
<mgariepy> kk Ã§a me semble normal ..
#edubuntu 2014-02-16
<aboki> I am a volunteer ICT teacher in my community but i need support to help give our younger generation ICT knowledge can  your group give such support? i am from Abeokuta, Ogun State in Nigeria.
<highvoltage> hi aboki
<aboki> hello!
<highvoltage> aboki: generally you can just ask here, but you'll typically have to leave you irc session open since poeple aren't always at their PCs or looking at their screens
<highvoltage> aboki: but usually if you hang around here long enough, you'll get an answer
<aboki> ok
<highvoltage> aboki: welcome to edubuntu!
<aboki> thanks
#edubuntu 2015-02-14
<CRRob> Hello.... Fresh install of edubuntu 14.04 LTSP.  Client trying to PXEBoot is getting TFTP timeout error.   Looking for help solving this error.
<CRRob> Additional Info:  Fresh install of Edupuntu 12.04 LTSP boots fine.
#edubuntu 2016-02-21
<highvoltage> Absol
#edubuntu 2017-02-13
<nickamg> Hello all
<nickamg> Anyone about for some support?
<nickamg> I recently installed Edubuntu on my daughter HP Envy and it crashed randomly
<nickamg> hello?
<nickamg> Anyone online yet?
<jbayfield> Hello! :)
<nickamg> Oh hey
<nickamg> man I'm having some serious problems getting this distro working
<jbayfield> What's going on? I can't say I'll definitely have any ideas but it's worth a shot.
<nickamg> Well I have a HP Envy
<nickamg> Laptop
<nickamg> using an 120gb SSD
<nickamg> Installed the OS no problems
<nickamg> But crashes randomly
<nickamg> I did find some kind of possible fix but I don't really understand how to do it
<jbayfield> Interesting - when you say it crashes are there any particular error messages or a description of what actually happens? Could you share the possible fix you found?
#edubuntu 2017-02-16
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [ppc64el] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.23.90-0ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [amd64] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.23.90-0ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [s390x] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.23.90-0ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [i386] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.23.90-0ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [powerpc] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.23.90-0ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [arm64] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.23.90-0ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [armhf] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.23.90-0ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
#edubuntu 2018-02-12
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [17.2-30-gf7deaf15-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 17.2-35-gf576b2a2-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (artful-proposed/main) [17.2-30-gf7deaf15-0ubuntu1~17.10.1 => 17.2-35-gf576b2a2-0ubuntu1~17.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-02-14
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (artful-proposed/main) [17.2-30-gf7deaf15-0ubuntu1~17.10.1 => 17.2-35-gf576b2a2-0ubuntu1~17.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [17.2-30-gf7deaf15-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 17.2-35-gf576b2a2-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
<lawrence> Hi all
<lawrence> I just installed edubuntu 14.04 on a new amd64 pc for a school.
<lawrence> The install went without a hitch but the client, a Dell optiplex boots to where its negotiating what seems to be packet size with the server, then goes to a blank screen where it freezes
<lawrence> I am quite honestly stumped. Also, based on a previous LTSP irc discussion it was recommended that I install ltsp-manager. apt0get is unable to locate the package. Any help is appreciated. Thanks
<lawrence> says Negotiation: ..size-512MB (Clears before I could catch the rest.
#edubuntu 2018-02-15
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: open-vm-tools (artful-proposed/main) [2:10.1.10-3 => 2:10.1.10-3ubuntu0.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: open-vm-tools (xenial-proposed/main) [2:10.0.7-3227872-5ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 2:10.0.7-3227872-5ubuntu1~16.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2019-02-15
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: open-vm-tools (bionic-proposed/main) [2:10.3.0-0ubuntu1~18.04.3 => 2:10.3.5-6~ubuntu0.18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: open-vm-tools (cosmic-proposed/main) [2:10.3.0-0ubuntu3 => 2:10.3.5-6~ubuntu0.18.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
