#xubuntu-devel 2010-12-06
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do we have any issues in Xubuntu 10.04 we need to get fixed before the .2 release Feb 17?
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: no, I don't recall any blocking issue (but since I'm using 4.7 for a long time, maybe I'm forgetting something ;)
<charlie-tca> Great! Thanks
<charlie-tca> I will look at the bug reports too. Maybe I forgot one
<charlie-tca> being 10.04 is an LTS release, I would like to get an up-to-date image for it. There are a ton of updates when you install now.
<micahg> charlie-tca: BTW, we're updating Thunderbird to 3.1.7 on Lucid, that might be a nice change for 10.04.2 as well
<charlie-tca> Great! Every little thing helps :-)
<charlie-tca> hm, well, everything big thing helps too, and thunderbird is pretty big!
<micahg> an we'll be able to backport lightning from maverick as well after the update
<micahg> charlie-tca: FYI: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mozillateam/2010-December/001199.html
<charlie-tca> thanks
 * charlie-tca wishes mozilla had kept the best stand-alone calendar - Sunbird
<micahg> charlie-tca: well, there was no one to maintain it
<charlie-tca> sounds like an excuse to get rid of it ;-)
<micahg> charlie-tca: it's very sad actually, there aren't many people working on lightning at the moment
<charlie-tca> Too bad they did not stay on Sunbird instead, then. It was probably the best stand-alone calendar out there
<micahg> charlie-tca: that had more overhead :)
<charlie-tca> It's okay, I guess. At least I got one more reason to want that .2 release image
<charlie-tca> huh?
<charlie-tca> default is one panel across the top and a dock on the bottom in natty with xfce4.7
<charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/126610
<micahg> charlie-tca: looks cool
<charlie-tca> How to make it work?
<charlie-tca> no applications menu
<micahg> charlie-tca: did you try to add one?
<charlie-tca> no mixer, either, for sound
<charlie-tca> micahg: how?
<micahg> charlie-tca: right click on the panel
<micahg> might have been a bug migrating the settings
<charlie-tca> You're right
<charlie-tca> everything is backwards now. the whole panel flipped 180 degrees. 
<charlie-tca> this is just weird
<charlie-tca> I am bad at change, I guess
<charlie-tca> Maybe I should have kept the old configuration, instead of "let me see what you changed"
<micahg> maybe :)
<charlie-tca> oh, all my icons left the desktop, too
<micahg> there used to be a setting to show those on demand
<charlie-tca> um, it was part of "Desktop", right/
<charlie-tca> which is gone
 * micahg doesn't have natty installed yet, time to upgrade the netbook now that it's working again
<charlie-tca> Well, this will be F-U-N now
<charlie-tca> Natty isn't really working yet
<charlie-tca> hm, I can't survive without my orage clocks, either
<charlie-tca> Well, it is different! Kind of a refreshing change
#xubuntu-devel 2010-12-07
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: the more I use the new panels, the more I like it. It is very streamlined for use. 
<TheSheep> new panels? where?
<mr_pouit> it's just that the new panel switched all its config to xfconf, so the xubuntu-default-settings parameters don't work anymore in natty
<mr_pouit> (but yeah, it's probably a good time to reconsider the layout we use in xubuntu)
<mr_pouit> and no, you should not upgrade now, really ;]
<TheSheep> one thing that I like in my panel is the large desktop switcher right in the middle of it
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i agree on rethinking the panel-layout
<ochosi> mr_pouit: as soon as i've installed natty i'll try to work on one
<ochosi> (i mean on a good layout)
<TheSheep> ochosi: how would you do it?
<mr_pouit> I think he plans to use 20 floating panels to form the "ochosi" word :p
<TheSheep> I was more interested in the process of coming up with a good layout
<TheSheep> I never actually saw how it is done
<ochosi> mr_pouit: hehe
<ochosi> TheSheep: well, i guess i'll just try a few different layouts and use them for a while
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<TheSheep> ochosi: I see, that easy
<charlie-tca> I kind of like that bottom panel with the launchers in it, myself
<charlie-tca> Using Application Finder to launch apps instead of menus is a little strange at first, but works well when you get used to it.
<TheSheep> http://www.sheep.art.pl/misc/shot.png <-- my favorite layout, since 1999
<TheSheep> :)
<TheSheep> but I don't use a taskbar
<charlie-tca> You would like what is in natty now, then
<TheSheep> obligatory taskbar?
<charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/126610
<charlie-tca> You can remove the top panel completely
<TheSheep> you always could
<TheSheep> the key thing for me is that workspace switcher
<TheSheep> I use it instead of taskbar
<TheSheep> different sets of apps on different workspaces
<charlie-tca> That's what I run. 7 workspaces now
<TheSheep> the point is, with ubuntu's panels the workspace switcher is too small to be useful
<TheSheep> you cannot easily drag the windows or even see the icons
<TheSheep> with xfce-style panel it can be much bigger
<charlie-tca> true enough
<charlie-tca> I am trying different things with it. today it is in the bottom panel, with the launchers, so I can grow it bigger 
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: I think you can add a menu back, it should work ;)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: it did. But I thought I could try with just app finder too
<mr_pouit> aah, ok :p
<mr_pouit> for 4.10 they have some ideas about that, i.e. merge xfrun and appfinder
<ochosi> hm, why not just make a "menu"-launcher that launches the app-finder instead of showing the menu?
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: ah, btw, xfce4-panel 4.8 is (almost) a complete rewrite, so the backtraces we got with the 4.6 one will probably be useless. So you can decide either to close existing bugs, or maybe ask the reporters to retry with natty... (I don't know what the bugsquad recommends in these cases)
<charlie-tca> ochosi: that is the default
<ablomen> mr_pouit, ooh ooh are there going to be new python/perl/whatever bindings too?
<charlie-tca> It's the magnifying glass in the image
<ochosi> charlie-tca: a-ha, haven't tried natty yet. but it sounds like a cool idea
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: really?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: k, maybe we need a clearer icon for it
<charlie-tca> I will close some, and request a re-test with others then
<charlie-tca> ochosi: yes. Perhaps our logo would be better. There is a choice to display text only or icon, too
<ochosi> yep, maybe text-only would be cool
<charlie-tca> If I follow this layout right, the bottom panel is just a panel with some launchers added to it
<mr_pouit> ablomen: I know there are some bindings for thunar (thunarx-python), but I'm not up-to-date for pyxfce (and none of them are packaged for the moment)
<charlie-tca> I didn't like text only, because it grabs the text from app finder, and things like firefox came out wayyyy ling
<charlie-tca> long, too
<ochosi> k, i thought maybe the names are truncated
<mr_pouit> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/tree/migrate/default.xml for the current vanilla default config from upstream
<charlie-tca> The text for it is something like "Firefox 4.0 Beta 7 - Web browser" 
<charlie-tca> That's what I picked when it upgraded, mr_pouit 
<mr_pouit> yeah
<charlie-tca> Gave like three choices, default, keep old, and something else
<ablomen> yeah there where some undocumented python bindings for xfce panel somewhere, but also not packaged (and not really working), ah well i will wait and see if something happens in that respect
<mr_pouit> in the top panel you have "actions | tasklist | pager | clock | systray", and the bottom one, only "show desktop | term | file manager | webbrowser | appfinder"
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> term/
<charlie-tca> term didn't show on here. I got three blank launchers instead
<charlie-tca> Maybe because I had launchers in the panel already?
<mr_pouit> mmh, there should be a "directory menu" item next to the appfinder also
<charlie-tca> Yeah, that one kind of sucks, too
<charlie-tca> It shows the /home/USER directory, and is hard to use
<ochosi> is that something like the places-plugin currently?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> It is a full list of /home/USER without hidden files
<ochosi> is it configurable?
<ochosi> i mean: can you define what folder it shows
<charlie-tca> No shortcuts, no way to pick anything outside of /home/USER
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: right click on it?
<mr_pouit> you can't configure it?
<mr_pouit> ochosi: _Comment=Show a directory tree in a menu
<charlie-tca> You can choose to start in a different directory
<charlie-tca> So, I guess choosing / would show the entire computer without hidden files
<mr_pouit> yep
<charlie-tca> Still not as functional as places
<mr_pouit> yep, but I'm afraid we'll have to drop places from the default panel layout
<ochosi> yeah, it's kinda different i guess
<ochosi> but it sounds interesting
<ochosi> is the plugin not compatible anymore?
<mr_pouit> because it still relies on thunar-vfs and not gio
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I would like orage back
<ochosi> yes, a calendar like orage would be cool
<mr_pouit> so mounting removable volumes will be awful (you can't unmount with thunar-vfs something you mounted with gio iirc)
<mr_pouit> yeah yeah, gimme some time :p
<ochosi> someone on xfce-dev said that its codebase is very ugly, so no-one wants to port it
<charlie-tca> I don't like the calendar so much as the clocks
<ochosi> mr_pouit: so orage is compatible with the new panel?
<charlie-tca> I can have gmt and local time on the panel with orage
<mr_pouit> ochosi: yes
<mr_pouit> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Natty/Xfce4.8
<mr_pouit> if it's listed here, I still haven't uploaded the new version
<mr_pouit> I've done 13 of them yesterday and the day before, still 25 to go
<ochosi> wow, you've actually come quite far already
<ochosi> congrats
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit is the BEST! He does a great job getting things done
<ochosi> true
<mr_pouit> well, these 13 were the easy ones... :p
<ochosi> :)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: lightDM will be usable this cycle 
<mr_pouit> really? that's nice
<charlie-tca> well, not really the enthusiam I hoped for, but at least you acknowledged it, huh?
<ochosi> do you plan to use lightdm in xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> I have hopes yet, but it will be up to mr_pouit as to whether or not we really can
<charlie-tca> He might have his hands full with the xfce4.8 merges 
<ochosi> mmh, i guess that's higher priority for now
<ochosi> charlie-tca: btw, it would be nice if you could test greybird with natty/xfce4.8, just to see how it works out
<charlie-tca> I can do that. You have to tell me how and where to get it again, though. I seem to be slow on these things
<ochosi> hehe, np
<ochosi> just dl the tarball from here: http://shimmerproject.org/hg/bluebird-colors
<ochosi> or if you like, you can also install mercurial and then sync it every now and then
<ochosi> but i have to say i don't work on it on a daily basis, so don't expect too many updates ;)
<charlie-tca> I don't get along with those kinds of things. I will just download it when you tell me to
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: well, I gave a quick look at the reported bugs, and it seems there are still many issues (and another debian pkg-xfce maintainer who is working on that found several issues too)
<mr_pouit> but if robert says that lightdm will be usable this cycle, that's fine
<charlie-tca> Okay, thank you for looking
<mr_pouit> I'm happy to drop this *Ã¹Ã¹*Ã¹$^^$ gdm3
<charlie-tca> Robert said Lubuntu is looking to use it, too
<mr_pouit> okay great ;>
<charlie-tca> It will stay gtk2 this cycle, too
<ochosi> charlie-tca: sure, i'll let you know when there are major changes
<charlie-tca> Thanks, ochosi 
<ochosi> charlie-tca: for now feel free to drop me general feedback
<charlie-tca> Okiedokie
<charlie-tca> installing now in natty
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i just want to avoid this "last-minute-artwork"-tradition xubuntu has/had
<ochosi> k nice
<mr_pouit> let's be optimistic and say "had" :p
<charlie-tca> That would really be great! I keep hoping to avoid that, too
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I will keep in touch with Robert on it and try to keep you informed
<ochosi> well since we're already looking at arty stuff i think we're already avoiding it ;)
<charlie-tca> :-)
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: do you know if he plans to take care of the packaging himself? (upload it in natty, etc.)
<mr_pouit> (that would be great ;p)
<charlie-tca> I don't know yet, but I will ask him
<ochosi> btw who is robert?
<mr_pouit> Robert Ancell, the developer of lightdm
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> i read about lightdm some time ago on planet.ubuntu
<mr_pouit> (also an upstream gnome developer, the dev of simple-scan, and probably also a canonical employee)
<ochosi> guess that was himself postnig
<ochosi> i see, a guy with multiple identities :)
<charlie-tca> unlike so many of us ;-)
<ochosi> hehe
<charlie-tca> OMG! colors in the panel I can see
<charlie-tca> ochosi: faenza icon set ?
<ochosi> you mean the one i'm working on?
<charlie-tca> No, the one I should use with greybird
<ochosi> http://shimmerproject.org/hg/faenza-xfce
<ochosi> try this one
<ochosi> it's not complete yet
<charlie-tca> I don't think the one I have is either, but some of the icons have changed lately
<ochosi> see this page for a list of open issues with the icons: http://wiki.knome.fi/shimmer:faenza_for_xfce
<ochosi> (you could maybe collect all that info in an artwork-wiki-page for natty)
<charlie-tca> I will do that. Then I can other people where it all is easily
<ochosi> great
<ochosi> also: if you could add some contact details for me in case people find issues that are not yet on that list
<charlie-tca> Will do
<ochosi> sry, g2g now
<ochosi> see you guys around
<charlie-tca> thanks
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: I uploaded the new orage ;)
<charlie-tca> w00t! thank you. You have my thanks at least through this cycle!
<mr_pouit> huhu, no problem ;>
<mr_pouit> (I hope it'll work ;D)
<charlie-tca> I will find out as soon as it shows up in upgrades
#xubuntu-devel 2010-12-08
<charlie-tca> ochosi: too much gray text on gray backgrounds, it is blurring for me
<charlie-tca> um, broke natty now, bad. 
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: orage works great after a restart.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: unfortunately, it restart without any panels, and no window title bars either. adding the panels puts them their, but nothing on the panels works.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: the launchers are dead, the workspace switcher is dead, the quit button is dead
<charlie-tca> the windows don't respect the panels at all now. 
<charlie-tca> Can not change themes, since Settings Manager -> Window Manager is blank
<charlie-tca> I can use the single workspace that is active. I can only use whatever window starts on top. The rest can not be raised
<charlie-tca> But, Thank you for orage.
<charlie-tca> micahg: why does firefox never came back with any tabs?
<micahg> charlie-tca: that would be a bug :)
<micahg> session restore should be working
<charlie-tca> It restarts with a single blank tab now
<charlie-tca> I suppose you know it is going to be hard to report the bug for a bit. things are kind of jumbled up at the moment.
<charlie-tca> :-)
<micahg> charlie-tca: maybe it's a xubuntu quirk, I think chrisccoulson is on natty already
<charlie-tca> I have to wonder if Ubuntu did not do something to us again. Since all the window title bars are gone
<micahg> compiz?
<charlie-tca> unity
<charlie-tca> I think takes the title bar away and puts the menu in the top panel, isn't it?
<charlie-tca> We did not lose the window menus, but the windows start on top the panel in the top right corner now
<charlie-tca> s/top right/top left
<micahg> charlie-tca: yeah, sounds like Ubuntu hijacked compiz for unity
<charlie-tca> but we don't use compiz
<micahg> charlie-tca: oh, right, xfwm?
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> compiz and unity are not installed
<micahg> charlie-tca: in that case I would think it's a bug in xfwm
<charlie-tca> Well, then. I just need to wait for everything to catch up, I guess. 
<charlie-tca> Well, I feel better now. Alpha is living up to what it should be... :-)
<charlie-tca> found the problem. Xfce4-session failed to start
<micahg> ah
<charlie-tca> well, that is part of it anyway. I will investigate more tomorrow, I guess. 
<charlie-tca> starting the session manager did give the window title bar and panels back, anyway
<ochosi> charlie-tca: hm, could you please be a bit more specific? grey text where on what grey areas?
<charlie-tca> I can try to be. 
<charlie-tca> ochosi: window title and menus
<charlie-tca> firefox, list of bookmarks
<charlie-tca> claws-mail, all read mail is gray text
<charlie-tca> the main window to read my mail is gray text
<charlie-tca> liferea - all feeds are gray
<ochosi> aha interesting
<charlie-tca> all text in the feeds are gray
<mr_pouit> I guess some screenshots would be nice :p
<ochosi> yep :)
<ochosi> i don't seem to have those issues with the theme in maverick
<charlie-tca> It's almost all the text
<ochosi> maybe something changed in natty
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> like that is not possible :-)
<ochosi> the window-title is understandable, but the current xfwm-theme is far from final
<ochosi> sure, anyways, a screenshot would be nice
<charlie-tca> alrighty, I will screenshot stuff in a bit
<ochosi> just to be able to compare
<mr_pouit> (and I rebuilt the current natty murrine engine to use it on debian unstable, and it works fine here, so probably not a natty-specific issue)
<ochosi> mmh
<charlie-tca> and, not yours at all, I can not change anything on the desktop yet. I lost the picture yesterday and it looks like brown only today
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I know, I am patiently waiting on that one
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: check that xfce4-settings-helper is running, and also xfdesktop
<mr_pouit> (and xfwm4, etc.)
<mr_pouit> from what you wrote earlier this morning, it seems like nothing is running (no session manager, no settings manager, no window manager, etc)
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> neat, huh?
<charlie-tca> don't see no xfdesktop running
<charlie-tca> um, no such package, xfdesktop
<mr_pouit> try with xfdesktop4
<charlie-tca> not installed
<charlie-tca> candidate: 4.7.4-0ubuntu1
<mr_pouit> yeah, it probably got removed when you installed the new panel
<charlie-tca> oops
<mr_pouit> install it back then, and your desktop should be back
<charlie-tca> restarting
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: got it
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> That is much better than the dark brown background
<charlie-tca> got icons and wallpaper now
<ochosi> charlie-tca: did anything change with the theme now?
<charlie-tca> nope
<charlie-tca> well, I mean yes, but it is things like different icons
<charlie-tca> Since I have your icons loaded too
<charlie-tca> Oh, ochosi, I wanted you to look at a wiki page, if you have time
<ochosi> k, link?
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Natty
<charlie-tca> Do we want to move that stuff to the Artwork page itself?
<ochosi> with artwork-page you're referring to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork ?
<charlie-tca> yup
<ochosi> well, in fact it would make sense to me that the artwork page is the same as the one for the current cycle
<charlie-tca> I am going to advertise the page, need to make sure it reads good
<ochosi> meaning artwork = natty, but after natty Artwork/Natty is kept whilst Artwork then contains the stuff for 11.10
<ochosi> currently it's too hard for people to find the artwork for the current cycle
<charlie-tca> So, move it to xubuntu/Artwork, at the end of the release cycle, archive it and start again?
<ochosi> yeah, that was the idea
<charlie-tca> That actually makes sense to me. I will do it this week
<ochosi> or even keep both the xb/Artwork page and xb/Artwork/natty in sync and just update xb/Artwork when the next cycle starts
<ochosi> cool
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<ochosi> btw, i'll talk to knome about greybird versioning, i mean we'll do releases that can be linked to from the wiki page
<ochosi> so that people can download it directly from there
<charlie-tca> Neat!
<ochosi> btw, if you don't mind i'd like to edit the installation instructions a bit
<charlie-tca> Go ahead. That's why I wanted you to check it out
<ochosi> charlie-tca: k, updated it a bit here and there, i'll maybe rework it a bit as soon as i have more time
<charlie-tca> Great! Thanks for helping
 * ochosi is wondering why all wallpaper submissions up to now are dark blue...
<charlie-tca> Trying to get away from it. Thorwil keeps trying to tell them we other other colors included, but...
<charlie-tca> We do need to know if the window borders, title bar, background, and panels will be the colors I see now
<ochosi> yeah, well i would say "we need to decide"
<ochosi> the point is that the current colors are my proposal, i've been working with/on them for a month or so
<ochosi> and i still like them, which should be a good sign
<charlie-tca> ooops
<charlie-tca> yes, that is a good sign
<charlie-tca> I will let him know, then
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> g2g now, bbl
<charlie-tca> okay
<robertf> Hello
<charlie-tca> Hello, robertf 
<robertf> i've a problem to try xubuntu 11.04. I downloaded the iso image. I can choose the language, the keyboard layout. After, there is a message "there was a problem reading data from cd-rom. Please make sure it is in the drive.
<robertf> i use an usb stick
<charlie-tca> Did you burn to usb using usb-creator in 10.10?
<robertf> charlie-tca: no, i only copy these files initrd.gz, vmlinuz, from natty repository to usb drive and the natty-desktop-i386.iso
<charlie-tca> Then it won't work, as far as I know
<robertf> i alsa created the syslinux.cfg and added default vmlinuz and append initrd=initrd.gz
<charlie-tca> !burn
<ubottu> CD/DVD Burning software: K3b (KDE), gnomebaker, brasero, serpentine, graveman, Nautilus-CD-Burner, GToaster, xcdroast (GNOME), wodim (terminal-based). Burning .iso files: see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto
<charlie-tca> !iso
<ubottu> To mount an ISO disc image, type Â« sudo mount -o loop <ISO-filename> <mountpoint> Â» - There is a list of useful cd image conversion tools at http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/CD_Image_Conversion - Always verify the ISO using !MD5 before !burning.
<charlie-tca> well
<robertf> the md5sum is correct
<charlie-tca> yeah, those were wrong
<charlie-tca> Might ask in #xubuntu, which is the support channel. they might have a better idea.
<robertf> charlie-tca: thank you
<charlie-tca> You are welcome
<charlie-tca> Just ask your question and someone will answer if they can
<charlie-tca> ochosi: by the way, the icons in "notification area" seem to shrink and grow randomly. Sometimes they are as big as the other icons, other times they are about 8px X 8px, which is really hard to see on 40opx panels
<charlie-tca> well, 40px panels, even
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: by the way, I heard they are going to move apport to gtk3, too
<mr_pouit> yeah, they're going to move all utils to gtk3
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> ochosi, mr_pouit : http://imagebin.org/126996  shows the gray text best. Also all dropdowns are gray on gray similar to the title bar
<charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/126992 for shrinking notification area icons
 * charlie-tca thinks they shrank completely now, they are gone
<charlie-tca> ochosi: let me know it is my eyes, not the colors
<micahg> charlie-tca: mr_pouit: FYI, it looks like there won't be any major gtk3 porting happening in natty
<charlie-tca> thank you, micahg 
#xubuntu-devel 2010-12-09
<mhall119> is the xubuntu iso currently >700MB also?
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<mhall119> morning charlie-tca 
<mhall119> is the xubuntu iso currently >700MB also?
<charlie-tca> yup
<mhall119> any idea what's causing that?  Or is this typical for alpha1 isos?
<charlie-tca> Alternate is about the right size, but the desktop is oversize
<charlie-tca> typical about this time
<mhall119> ok
<charlie-tca> caused by stuff from Ubuntu
<mhall119> I got the latest daily downloaded last night, so I'm going to try my xdg-launcher on it
<charlie-tca> did it install?
<mhall119> I haven't tried it yet
<charlie-tca> I can't log in today. GDM is broken
<mhall119> I'll let you know when I do
<mhall119> :(
<mhall119> not a good thing to have broken
<mhall119> can you at least ctrl+alt+f1, login as yourself, then startx?
<charlie-tca> true, but only if you plan to use Nagtty
<mhall119> or xtartxfce4
<charlie-tca> startx will work with sudo, but starts the xfce session instead of xubuntu
<mhall119> start...blah
<charlie-tca> I dropped down to maverick
<mhall119> oh right, I think you just need to change the XDG_CONFIG_HOME and XDG_DATA_DIRS env variables to make it use the Xubuntu defaults
<charlie-tca> I keep the latest release and the development release up to date until beta or rc
<charlie-tca> If the development release breaks too bad for me, I just drop back to the stable release
<charlie-tca> <pitti> sudo rm -r /etc/X11/Xsession.d/52libcanberra-gtk3-module_add-to-gtk-modules/
<charlie-tca> <pitti> that's actually the proper fix :-) 
<charlie-tca> heh, and that makes gdm work again
<charlie-tca> whew! back in natty again
<charlie-tca> ochosi: did you get the screenshots above?
<scott-work> hi, i'm scott lavender, the lead for ubuntu studio, i am presuming that xubuntu will be using gnome2 as the default session, can someone help me determine how i can do this for the ubuntu studio images?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: how do create the session for Xubuntu ? ^ ^ 
<charlie-tca> scott-work: actually, we use xfce, but it means a different session
<scott-work> charlie-tca: DOH!
<scott-work> lol
<scott-work> i actually knew that, but am multi-tasking coupled with i'm a dough head sometimes :P
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit or cody-somerville will know how to do what you want, though. 
<micahg_netbook> charlie-tca: good morning
<charlie-tca> Good morning, micahg_netbook 
<charlie-tca> How are things looking today?
<micahg_netbook> charlie-tca: ok, I have some weird things with xubuntu on my netbook with ubuntu-desktop  installed
<micahg_netbook> not sure what would happen w/out ubuntu-desktop
<charlie-tca> It's a meta-package, it is safe to remove it
<micahg_netbook> charlie-tca: I meant w/out the GNOME  components ;)
<charlie-tca> hm, that can be problematic
<micahg_netbook> as in a pure xubuntu install
<charlie-tca> Did you choose the xubuntu-session at GDM?
<micahg_netbook> yes
<charlie-tca> what kind of weird things?
<micahg_netbook> well, multiple don't show this message when connecting to wireless networks
<micahg_netbook> applications menu is squished like it should be the XFCE icon
 * micahg_netbook needs to file some bugs
<charlie-tca> do you have both xfce-notifyd and gnome notifications installed?
 * micahg_netbook checks
<charlie-tca> applications menu might have replaced gnome's menu
<micahg_netbook> charlie-tca: neither actually
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> That's different
<micahg_netbook> notifications seem to work, this is maverick BTW
<charlie-tca> still got to use something to display those notices
<charlie-tca> With gnome changes, it gets harder and harder to get things to work right when adding ubuntu-desktop to xubuntu or Xubuntu-desktop to ubuntu
<charlie-tca> notify-osd should be generating those
<micahg_netbook> charlie-tca: yep
<charlie-tca> Hard to do anything with the multiples, though
<mhall119> /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.Notifications.service should tell you what program is providing the notifications service 
<mhall119> woot, xdg-launcher mostly works in Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> :-)
<mhall119> it runs anyway, but still not using the menu data I want it to be using
<mhall119> still, it's progress
<charlie-tca> agreed
<ochosi> hey charlie-tca 
<ochosi> yes, got the screenshots
<ochosi> to be honest i don't see any problems there... :/
<ochosi> the text is not black though, the color is 3C3C3C, if you like we can test black there
<ochosi> charlie-tca: bbl
<charlie-tca> ochosi: Please, let's test black text if we can
<charlie-tca> I am looking at accessibility as much as everything else. I want to be able to say we got it right for everyone
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu Community Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 30 minutes, agenda is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Mettings 
<charlie-tca> Well the agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu Community Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: ^ ^ ^  
<mr_pouit> micahg: the main work is already "roughly" done in pkg-xfce's svn repo
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, idk how to grab packages from there
<mr_pouit> it probably needs a bit of polishing (e.g. delete autogenerated autotools files), but you don't need to coordinate with debian for that
<mr_pouit> and I can push your changes if really needed
<mr_pouit> micahg: you can grab the full repo with 'svn co svn://anonymous@svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-xfce/'
<mr_pouit> (more on http://pkg-xfce.alioth.debian.org/)
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, so I do that, then test and upload?  then update the wiki by moving to uploaded w/the ver #?
<mr_pouit> for panel plugins, the version is not really useful, you can simply put it with the upload date, below the table yeah :)
<micahg> ok
<micahg> will try to do at least a couple this weekend
<micahg> mr_pouit: why is xfce4 using 3.0 (native) instead of 3.0 (quilt)?
<mr_pouit> it's a native metapackage, so 3.0 (quilt) isn't very useful
<micahg> oh, hmm, I guess I misunderstood what it was :-/
<mr_pouit> micahg: it's a metapackage to install the mandatory packages for a basic xfce4 desktop
<micahg> mr_pouit: right, that makes sense now
<mr_pouit> (but we have xubuntu-desktop in ubuntu, so it's only useful when you want a very minimal install)
<micahg> or if people don't want the xubuntu branding
<mr_pouit> yep
<mr_pouit> dinner time, bbl
<charlie-tca> micahg: are we asking testing for thunderbird, or did you say to disregard that part/
<charlie-tca> ?
<micahg> charlie-tca: well, it'll probably be pushed to Lucid today or tomorrow, so idk if it's worth putting out a call for testing, you can mention it as an update if you like that TB in Lucid is being upgraded to 3.1.7
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> thanks
<micahg> charlie-tca: I'll make sure to coordinate with you for the next major update
<charlie-tca> Works for me. 
<ochosi> charlie-tca: may i ask you a few things about the screenshot again?
<charlie-tca> sure
<ochosi> the "gray text in liferea" screenshot, where's readability the worst for you?
<charlie-tca> The text area below the titles
<ochosi> i mean the tree on the left showing your subscriptions should be fine, right?
<ochosi> below what titles?
<charlie-tca> Yes, that is okay, I don't have to see it often
<charlie-tca> The main body of text
<ochosi> you mean the "radioweather writes..." stuff?
<charlie-tca> yup
<ochosi> i see
<charlie-tca> that appears to be a grey text, and it blurs after a little bit
<ochosi> hm, well, it isn't black as stated earlier
<ochosi> would you mind quickly testing the black?
<charlie-tca> Happy to try it
<charlie-tca> What happens is too many grays begin to blend together
<ochosi> if you could edit your /usr/share/themes/greybird/gtk-2.0/gtkrc line 7 and make the "text_color:#000000"
<ochosi> since it's only this one value involved it's easiest if you just try it
<ochosi> then you have to reload the theme, meaning switching back and forth
<charlie-tca> That changed the feeds to black
<charlie-tca> and the titles above the text box
<ochosi> yeah, it should in fact change all the text to black
<charlie-tca> Maybe it did
<ochosi> unless liferea doesn't adhere to the gtk-standards
<ochosi> could you just post another comparable screenshot?
<charlie-tca> My eyes are clouding again, makes it harder to see, but I like that
<charlie-tca> Does it help if I say I can read it easier?
<ochosi> hehe, sure
<charlie-tca> https://imagebin.org/127182
<ochosi> i mean it's just more contrasty
<charlie-tca> Sometimes that matters on the monitor
<micahg> charlie-tca: TB 3.1.7 was just published to -security
<charlie-tca> thanks, micahg 
<ochosi> hm, something doesn't work with the link you just posted... (404)
<charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/127182
<charlie-tca> Well, I have to go to a piano recital now. I will be back later. Thanks for trying, though
<charlie-tca> That second link worked, right?
<ochosi> yep, i'll try it for a while myself and then push the change to the mercurial repository
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<ochosi> no problem
<ochosi> happy we're talking about stuff like this early enough
#xubuntu-devel 2010-12-10
<charlie-tca> Well, that was just oodles of fun
<charlie-tca> ochosi: a plus... more than 30 minutes of reading without blurring tonight. 
<ochosi> charlie-tca: okeydokey, sounds like making the text-color black is a win
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i just pushed the change to the repository
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<davmor2> morning charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> ochosi: Really glad we got things working earlier to even suggest possible changes this time!
<charlie-tca> Hello, davmor2 
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu Alternate images are the right size today
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu alternate i386 fails to install; probably not ready yet :-(
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yep, i just recently joined the discussion on ubuntu-art-ml
<charlie-tca> Good! I am trying to understand just a little bit of what they try to tell me, but it isn't easy.
<charlie-tca> ochosi: http://imagebin.org/127303
<charlie-tca> ochosi: might be a bad hilight color?
<charlie-tca> The black stripe is hilighting a message to please enter your name; it only shows it hilighted if nothing was entered
<charlie-tca> ochosi: Maybe we can blame that one on Thunderbird?
<charlie-tca> micahg: is this generated by TBird or the theme used? 
<charlie-tca>  http://imagebin.org/127303
<micahg> charlie-tca: I missed the first aprt
<micahg> *part
<charlie-tca> entering new accounts in Thunderbird
<micahg> what about it
<mr_pouit> ah, lightdm is in new
<charlie-tca> really?
<mr_pouit> yup
<charlie-tca> making progress, then
<charlie-tca> micahg: missed something there. When I enter a new account, if I skip the name, I get a black hilight saying enter name, I think. It actually shows up as a black stripe 
<micahg> charlie-tca: what video drier?
<charlie-tca> nvidia hardware driver
<micahg> charlie-tca: yeah, there are some nvidia issues w/Thunderbird
<micahg> and Firefox for that matter
<charlie-tca> I see. I set up thunderbird to check things out in natty.
<micahg> charlie-tca: does the upstream build have the same issue?
<charlie-tca> huh?
<charlie-tca> and I would find out by...
<micahg> charlie-tca: http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/, download into your home directory and decompress, then run
<charlie-tca> looking
<charlie-tca> That's 3.1.7
<charlie-tca> That's what I got in Natty already
<charlie-tca> Or did Ubuntu make changes?
<davmor2> charlie-tca: it could be a backend lib issue
<charlie-tca> downloading
<davmor2> charlie-tca: are both FF and TB effected
<charlie-tca> I don't know. I don't know how to trigger hilighting in ff
<charlie-tca> This is gray background, gray text, black hilight
<davmor2> ouch
<charlie-tca> heh, I guess that says it all lol
<charlie-tca> It's kind of hard to read
<micahg> davmor2: FF in which series?
<micahg> davmor2: Firefox in natty is 4.0b7, also, we don't use system cairo for Firefox
<micahg> so that might be affecting it as well
<davmor2> charlie-tca: I think bug report with screenshot/screencast and mark it urgent :)
<charlie-tca> checking the upstream version first
<davmor2> charlie-tca: what the highlighting in other email clients like as well?  claws for example
<davmor2> that should help rule out theme issues
<charlie-tca> white on gray hilight
<charlie-tca> heh, you are right. 
<charlie-tca> I will switch themes and see, too, then
<charlie-tca> Looks like the gtk theme
<davmor2> charlie-tca: Yay!
#xubuntu-devel 2010-12-11
<thorwil> how do i take a screenshot on xfce?
<thorwil> ochosi: i was hoping i could have a look at greybird on xfce easily, but http://www.foopics.com/showfull/44a956824577cfef1f1477ffc07f8719
<thorwil> any idea on how to fix the appearance? i'm not willing to install lots xubuntu packages
<TheSheep> thorwil: what do you want to fix?
<thorwil> TheSheep: i want the look of xubuntu with greybird on my ubuntu install, so i can take a representative screenshot and provide feedback to ochosi
<thorwil> obviously the panel and the widget theme are not right
<TheSheep> thorwil: possibly you have some rules in your .gtkrc-2.0
<TheSheep> thorwil: or the panel background was set by another theme and when you switched stayed like that
<TheSheep> thorwil: this something happens for me, I just switch between a couple of themes then
<thorwil> renaming the .gtkrc-2.0 to hide and then switching theme did the trick
<thorwil> TheSheep: thanks
<charlie-tca> Good morning
#xubuntu-devel 2010-12-12
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<insomaniacal> Any devs on?
<insomaniacal> fuck.
<mr_pouit> ?
<charlie-tca> did you miss the 2 second response time?
<mr_pouit> yeah :P
<TheSheep> don't worry, I'm pretty sure he had a support question
<charlie-tca> We will never know now ;-)
<j3mc> hi all
<j3mc> it's really j1mc, but i'm on free wifi that apparently blocks irc
<j3mc> so i had to join via the freenode webchat
<j3mc> i will share this with "Dan the Man" (? I think that's his name . . . ), but I'm looking to refactor the Xubuntu docs
<j3mc> I think we can repurpose pretty much all of the content, but I would like to reorganize things and make it easier for people to find what they are looking for.
<j3mc> Here is a screenshot of what I have worked up so far: http://yfrog.com/3vthexubuntuhelpguide008p
<j3mc> Some of the sections are cut-off, so you can't see them.
<j3mc> I'm going to push them to an experimental branch for now, but the silly wifi here apparently blocks SSH?
<charlie-tca> Fantastic idea! will it make it easier to maintain?
<j3mc> charlie-tca: here we go: bzr branch lp:~jwcampbell/+junk/xubuntu-mallard
<charlie-tca> j3mc: think the guy is "Book_em_Dano" on IRC
<j3mc> charlie-tca: yes, that's his name
<j3mc> yes, i think it would be easier to maintain
<charlie-tca> Good. We like easy.
<j3mc> i *just* pushed to that branch, so it may take a few minutes to sync up.  if you want to view it / play w/ it . . .   you could pull the branch, then do "yelp xubuntu-mallard/"
<j3mc> the docs are viewable in yelp, but would be converted to html for the actual docs
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will try. I am pretty bad in bzr, though
<charlie-tca> I like the html part
<j3mc> just doing "bzr branch lp:~jwcampbell/+junk/xubuntu-mallard" and then "yelp xubuntu-mallard/" should do it
<charlie-tca> I will try
<charlie-tca> Thanks for doing that, j3mc 
<j3mc> yw, charlie-tca - i hope that Book 'em Danno is open to this
<charlie-tca> me too
<j3mc> i'm going to work on it just a bit more, and will send a note out to the mailing list.
<charlie-tca> That does look nicer !
 * charlie-tca managed to get the file downloaded
 * charlie-tca installed Dropbox, tired of fighting with UbuntuOne without Gnome
<j3mc> charlie-tca: ah, yes, i had a good experience with dropbox when i was using it
<charlie-tca> heh, I been fighting with UbuntuOne for about a year now, and it doesn't work 
<j3mc> i'm headed offline for a bit, but will send a note out about the docs a little later today.
<charlie-tca> Okay, have a good day!
<j3mc> you, too!  thanks, charlie
<charlie-tca> ochosi: is it intended that the sliders have no defined area; it blends into the background - 
<charlie-tca> ochosi: http://imgebin.org/127621 bottom and shortcuts sliders defined by arrows only
#xubuntu-devel 2011-12-05
<ScottL> ochosi, madnick, should i wait until later to take xubuntu-default-settings and xubuntu-artwork for redoing ubuntu studio stuff?
<ochosi> ScottL: you're asking because you think it'll change so much you might have to redo it again later?
<ScottL> ochosi, aye, i don't mind waiting a week or so
<ochosi> ScottL: k, well i don't think that there will be radical changes. mostly new versions of packages that already exist. mr_pouit, any opinion on this?
<scott-work> good morning
<Unit193> Howdy
<ochosi> current greybird-git branch (gtk2 vs. gtk3): http://imagebin.org/187075
<scott-work> ochosi: i think the gtk3 looks better, in particular i like the options not active, i like being able to read the text more easily even if i can't do anything with it
<ochosi> scott-work: you mean the comboboxentry.insensitive and the gtkentry.insensitive ?
<scott-work> ochosi: and checkbutton3, checkbutton4, radiobutton3, and radiobutton4 as well (or in particular)
<ochosi> scott-work: right, guess i could fix that in gtk2
<ochosi> scott-work: any other comments?
<scott-work> ochosi: hehe, i'm not a graphic design guy, i just saw the difference and realized how much i disliked not being able to see the unactive options
<ochosi> scott-work: ok :)
<ochosi> scott-work: well thanks anyway, i'll try to tweak that a bit
<scott-work> ochosi: i'll look again though
<scott-work> ochosi: i do have a suggestion, the scroll bar (which isn't visible on the gtk3 image) could be darker
<scott-work> scroll bar = the little bar on the side of a window that allows you to scroll the information in the window up and down
<ochosi> scott-work: there you go: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-12052011-022055pm.php
<ochosi> hm, about the scrollbar: not sure, i personally like that it kinda blends in, i wanted something less obtrusive/obvious than in previous versions
<scott-work> ochosi: yeah, i like that, it still shows that you can't pick those options but they are still easily readible
<ochosi> think i'll also tweak the disabled combo-entries to look like gtk3
<scott-work> ochosi: okay (re: scroll bars), it was just a suggestion
<ochosi> i like that a lot more
<ochosi> sure, always feel free to suggest :)
<ochosi> scott-work: with tweaked combo-entries (the insensitive-part): http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-12052011-022435pm.php
<scott-work> ochosi: have you considered some other shade of green or even another color (maybe darker blue) for the back/forward arrows and such?
 * scott-work is thinking outside of his usual box this morning ;)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> scott-work: you're referring to the icons?
<scott-work> ochosi: oh, yes, i suppose i am, aren't it
<scott-work> aren't i
<ochosi> scott-work: we had the item "new icon theme" in our roadmap for this release, but since we didn't find an assignee it's postponed
<ochosi> scott-work: but yes, it was planned as a modification of the current theme, so potentially the arrows would've been changed as well
 * scott-work is listening to phantom of the opera "overture"
<scott-work> ochosi: i want to ask you a question, it's kinda far reaching and slightly full of self-interest and you are completely within your right to tell me no
<ochosi> scott-work: ok, shoot :)
<scott-work> ochosi: instead of me taking the stuff xubuntu is doing for themes and such, it seems like the total work load would be reduced if ubuntu studio's needs were incorporated into the xubuntu packages
<ochosi> scott-work: i guess so
<scott-work> my original concern was that i would lose any new changes you make, unless i'm in the loop and then take the diff and push it into our packages
<scott-work> then i thought about trying to make what ubuntu studio packages maintain are _just_ the diffs and make our stuff depend on your stuff
<scott-work> but then things change and we don't know aobut them and pow! somethings different, wrong, or broken
<ochosi> yeah, i can see why you'd consider that a problem
<scott-work> so i thought perhaps incorporating our changes into your package would provide a minimally different alternative to install (an anology would be like including extra backgrounds for desktop)
<scott-work> ochosi: but this isn't a decision to be made right now (even if you and i suppose knome, et al even considered it)
<ochosi> what changes would that be concretely?
 * scott-work is thinking through his list that is conviently left at home ;)
<ochosi> hehe
<scott-work> okay, things that are definitive:
<scott-work> wallpaper
<scott-work> some minor panel layouts
<scott-work> probably menu structure too
<scott-work> hmmm, this might not be so minor after all
<knome> heh
<knome> menu structure is quite minor
<ochosi> i guess you can keep the panel layouts and menu structure conveniently in a package "ubuntu-studio-settings"
<ochosi> for other things, e.g. the theme, you can use the xubuntu package directly
<scott-work> knome: but probably not if you are including it in xubuntu packages though
<knome> we are yeah
<knome> just create your own
<scott-work> ochosi: i saw what you (i presume it was you) with the icon set basing it on elementary and elementary-mono-dark then adding your own specific icons to supplement those
<scott-work> it was this that gave me the idea earlier
<ochosi> yeah, we're doing that, true
<ochosi> i guess you could try to do the same with the gtk-theme
<knome> hmm...
<ochosi> but menus and panels are completely unrelated to the gtk-theme
<scott-work> but my thought was that you are not replacing icons, just adding supplementary ones
<ochosi> well, we could also replace icons
<scott-work> i don't know how that would work depending on xubuntu-default-settings and then say, replacing the menu structure
<ochosi> well, that's different
<knome> why would you be depending on xubuntu-default-settings
<ochosi> the menu-thing isn't really packaging-related
 * scott-work wants to point out that he isn't trying to offload work onto someone else, he's quite happy to do the tinkering and tedious stuff
<ochosi> errr
<ochosi> i meant the icon-stuff is not packaging-related. it's a function of gtk-icon-themes that they can "inherit" other themes
<scott-work> the menu structure is included in xubuntu-default-settings isn't it?  i thought it was
<scott-work> oh, icon-stuff
<ochosi> so all we had to do is put a dependency on the xubuntu-icon-theme package to get elementary as well
 * knome shuts up
<knome> :)
<ochosi> with gtk-themes you can do something similar
<scott-work> hehe
<scott-work> ochosi: let me look at this some more when i get home and think about the changes i have written down
<scott-work> oh, distributor logo and menu icon would change too
<ochosi> so basically we'd have to either: split our package into stuff we share with you and then have two addons
 * scott-work is thinking about the "must change" things
<ochosi> or: you simply clone our package and change whatever you wanna change in there
<scott-work> ochosi: oooooh, that's another good idea
<knome> yeah...
<knome> that was what i was thinking 
<knome> :P
<ochosi> scott-work: but the first option has a huge caveat
<scott-work> ochosi: i worry about the cloning part not facilitating us keeping up with any changes you make
<scott-work> but that is something that we might have to just accept
<ochosi> scott-work: if we settle on things we want there now, that might be fine. but let's say next release things look different: that'd mean we'd have to settle on the minimal consensus for the base-settings-package again (which might be really tedious in the worst case)
<scott-work> ochosi: very good point
<scott-work> it's hard enough to make a decision with only one team ;)
<ochosi> scott-work: depends on how you clone/maintain your code. it's mostly text-files
<scott-work> ochosi: agreed, and i hope to document well my considerations and locations for changing
<scott-work> maybe even introduce a new text file just for the configuration changes
<ochosi> scott-work: with git i feel really fine about that. i've pulled stuff from gmb maintaining my local diffs all the time (and that means staying up-to-date _with_ modifications)
<ochosi> yeah, i mean in general it's a good idea to simplify and share things
<ochosi> guess in the end it's not really my place to discuss it, it's more for packagers :)
<scott-work> oh, i think i see what you are saying ochosi 
<scott-work> using git, i mean
<ochosi> yep
<ochosi> i guess it's possible with bzr as well, i just don't know it that well
<scott-work> heh, i don't either all that well :P
<mr_pouit> scott-work: if you want only minimal changes from xubuntu-default-settings, then you can create ubuntu-studio-default-settings to ship only the two or three config files you changed, add a dep on xubuntu-default-settings...
<mr_pouit> ... and set XDG_CONFIG_DIRS to /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/:/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu:/etc/xdg
<mr_pouit> but imho, you should rather create your own package with all the conf you want, and not rely on xubuntu-default-settings
<scott-work> mr_pouit: ack
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i know we talked about this already a few times, but is there any half-sane way to change "greybird" into "Greybird"?
<mr_pouit> there are several ways, and there are more or less half-insane ;>
<ochosi> ok :)
<ochosi> adding a symlink is not ideal, i know, but that'd at least not break things for people
<ochosi> is there any other way to avoid breakage for people who set their theme to "greybird"?
<mr_pouit> patch xfce4-settings/xfce4-settings-helper
<mr_pouit> (that's the worst one I could think of ;-)
<ochosi> hah
<ochosi> i'd just really like to stop to carry forward this stupid little bug
<ochosi> especially if we cut down the themes
<mr_pouit> ochosi: see that with Corsac, he's the Debian maintainer of murrine-themes
<mr_pouit> if he does it, I'll make the change in ubuntu too
<ochosi> meh, can't we have our own package for that?
<mr_pouit> greybird is already there since oneiric =]
<ochosi> i think he included so many themes for a good reason and arguing with him over each and every one sounds like a bad idea
<ochosi> i know it is
<ochosi> and it's nice for debian users :)
<mr_pouit> then what? Create a shimmer-themes package?
<ochosi> wouldn't it be easier to just create a new package for xubuntu-themes?
<mr_pouit> mmh
<ochosi> just sayin, i think the cleanup would be a good idea
<ochosi> maybe include more themes there, not just the "shimmer" ones
<knome> that's why it's in the roadmap
<ochosi> yeah, i mean that package could solve both the issues with gtk and xfwm themes
<ochosi> and a good thing would be to have more themes with gtk3 support, maybe even go and look for themes on the interwebs
<ochosi> what do you think about that knome ? ^
<mr_pouit> I'm not so sure about this cleanup, because it'd mean dropping themes for xfwm4/gtk2-engine-xfce/murrine-themes/etc. and then a big fun with breaks/replaces for the new package we ship them into...
<ochosi> so would it make more sense to talk to olivier to split the themes (apart from default) from the xfwm-package upstream?
<mr_pouit> there's already a split between xfwm4 and xfwm4-themes though
<ochosi> yeah, one reason more to kick those themes to the xfwm4-themes package, no?
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: to Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | Working on: Precise Pangolin | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Bugs List: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/PrecisePangolin | Daily Testing results: http://91.189.93.73/qatracker/milestones/204/builds
<mr_pouit> yes
<ochosi> mr_pouit: hm, which is better, a bugreport (that might start to rot) or ping olivier directly?
<knome> ochosi, maybr
<ochosi> knome: ?
<ochosi> ah
<knome> ochosi, the gtk3 thing
<ochosi> yeah, in the meantime i thought a bit more about, not sure how many themes out there have complete xfce-support, which is also mandatory
<ochosi> i mean i could theoretically fix them up
<ochosi> but i'm afraid there won't be too many with complete gtk3 and xfce support
<ochosi> maybe a few though that'll work well enough
<knome> yeah
<scott-work> this may be a silly suggestion and completely against accepted ethos...
<scott-work> but there sounds like a lot of detractions with the murrine-themes package, perhaps making a specific xubuntu one is in order (even though it duplicates code)
 * scott-work is afraid his ignorance is showing ;)
<ochosi> yeah, that
<ochosi> 's basically what we were discussing earlier
<charlie-tca> crashed ubiquity on the desktop 386 in VBox today. Will attempt hardware install next.
<charlie-tca> Caught by bug 894768 ; Can not reproduce on hardware
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 894768 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "Installation randomly fails with: File "/usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/install_misc.py", line 621, in copy_file targetfh.write(buf) IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument " [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894768
<plantoschka> irc://irc://irc.opensuse.org/suse
<plantoschka> oh sorry :-D
<astraljava> *blasphemy*
<baizon> :D
<charlie-tca> hm, anyone still doing daily smoke tests for Xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> Well, that's a shame.
<madnick> Nobody pokes me anymore, there was no clear indication that we would even do alpha 1. Infact I do download images when I'm blocked on my items, but I don't know if there is any known problems, or anything like that to test
<charlie-tca> I see. We do need to do daily testing again. 
<madnick> Its my fault however
<charlie-tca> I can start poking people for testing, if it helps
<madnick> Yes, that would be great
<charlie-tca> :)
<charlie-tca> I started smoke testing this week.
<madnick> okay, i will start tomorrow, and I can only cover 2 images per day now, because I swapped down my connection, to save some money
<charlie-tca> That's okay. Even if you could do one every other day, it would be great!
<madnick> awsome
<charlie-tca> I can do a test on each image daily, but sometimes the results need verifying.
<madnick> :) 
<Unit193> I'm syncing now, I fixed the issue I had
<charlie-tca> Great!
<charlie-tca> I can give reminders here, if we need them.
<charlie-tca> desktop 386 in a VBox on a 64bit machine fails regularly now. That is the biggest bug I know about.
<Unit193> I have a 32bit VBox on a 32bit OS
<charlie-tca> That should work, then
<charlie-tca> I had to test it on hardware to get a pass
<charlie-tca> by the way, the daily tracker now allows multiple entries per person.
<charlie-tca> That will be good when testing on different machines, or VBox and hardware, maybe.
<Unit193> Sadly, I still can't test on hardware, and if I could, it's one of those that the video isn't supported (Main computer isn't)
<charlie-tca> I can test on hardware. I have both ati and nvidia cards working now, and will run hardware tests a couple of times a week, if we have other testers.
<Unit193> I actually saw drc in #Xubuntu maybe a month back :P
<charlie-tca> Yeah, he is around, but ignoring us now.
<pleia2> oooh, my xubuntu stickers should arrive today (ordered some from moo.com :))
<Unit193> Make sure you post pics ;)
<pleia2> once I have them and confirm awesomeness I'll put creation details on the wiki
<pleia2> and that too!
<charlie-tca> great!
<charlie-tca> I am waiting for an obi110 box to arrive.
<charlie-tca> Okay, enough for today.
<scott-work> pleia2: it looks like moo.com is actually kinda inexpensive, i might do something like that for swag for ubuntu studio
<pleia2> scott-work: it's not bad and once you order something once they send you deals pretty often (20-30% off certain items each month, I buy stickers when they have sales)
<pleia2> and the quality is really high, not like vistaprint (which is dead cheap, but I only use them for really basic things where quality isn't a huge deal)
<GridCube> when will next  meeting be?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-12-06
<micahg> this is good news if their schedule keeps and we keep it seeded: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTAyMzE (gimp 2.8 close to release)
<pleia2> stickers: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6463719329/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6463719291/
<pleia2> as you can see from the second, the black outline on the sheet isn't actually on the sticker itself
<Unit193> My goodness I feel sorry for that laptop ;)
<Unit193> They look rather nice
<pleia2> my laptop loves me <3
<pleia2> it loves sparkles and ponies
<Unit193> Too bad the blue wasn't darker though :/
<pleia2> the flash might have washed it out a bit, hard to get accurately colored photos of small things
<micahg> knome: you pick a time I can't come :)
<knome> micahg, can you come if i move it to some direction with an hour or so?
<micahg> knome: an hour before this week, normally it's fine at that time, I have a previous engagement at 20:00 UTC this thursday
<knome> so 17UTC?
<knome> or what :)
<micahg> knome: meetings aren't necessarily incumbent on my being present though
<knome> yeah, i know
<knome> do you have the draft for the release stuff ready?
<micahg> 18:00 UTC would work fine for me this week ,19:00 in the future is fine, I can only stay for an hour though
<knome> ah
<knome> yeah
<micahg> knome: I'll draft later tonight
<knome> i hope to get the meetings done in 1 hour
<knome> this meeting time is in no way written in the stone
<madnick> Todays images seems to work
<Unit193> You know what? Screw it, I did the test, it works, good day
#xubuntu-devel 2011-12-07
<pleia2> http://twitter.com/#!/XubuntuLinux
<pleia2> well, there is nothing on it
<pleia2> but it now exists
<pleia2> I figure we just tweet the blog posts there
<knome> hihi
<knome> great
<knome> btw..
<knome> looking at the right sidebar in twitter
<knome> the logo looks a bit ugly? ;)
<knome> no rounded (transparent) corners? ;)
<pleia2> hrm, mouse does not squish well
<knome> no, the mouse looks okay
<knome> it's the corners that eeks mee
<pleia2> ah, maybe transparent png will work better then
 * pleia2 experiments
<knome> mmh
<knome> not completely transparent, the mouse should be white :)
<pleia2> ok, there
<knome> yeah, great
<knome> pleia2, for some reason, it appears that the xubuntu twitter icon is back to non-transparent :|
<knome> pleia2, now it looks transparent again.
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/brainstorm-20111207-01-rays.png
<knome> jono, where in irc can i contact the cd-image team, or anybody that knows about maybe-ubiquity?
<pleia2> knome: shiny
<pleia2> but not tall enough?
<knome> that's exported from svg
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> my idea is to create a wallpaper that spans both my monitors
<knome> so the normal user would basically see the right-hand side only
<jono> knome, not sure, you might want to mail ubuntu-devel or ask in #ubuntu-devel
<knome> ok.
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> Testing today, manual install or guided resize
<charlie-tca> well, manual partitioning or guided resize
<madnick> Did i386 desktop
<madnick> It works
<charlie-tca> Update the iso tracker?
<madnick> About to test alt
<madnick> oh, i perhaps should hehe
<madnick> i will
<charlie-tca> http://91.189.93.73/qatracker/milestones/204/builds
<charlie-tca> Thanks for running those!
<ochosi> btw, if you're testing xubuntu-stuff it'd be nice if you could test greybird again
<ochosi> i rewrote big parts of the gtk3-theme
<madnick> where is the repo?
<ochosi> i think it should work fine, but i don't have a full gnome3 environment here, so it might be that i don't see some widgets that are broekn
<ochosi> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird
<madnick> thanks
<ochosi> np
<madnick> ill try it on the image im installing now
<charlie-tca> I can test it, but I am still running Xubuntu 11.10 here. Can add the themes to precise in a test setup, though
<ochosi> you don't have to use git if you don't want, you can also dl a tarball from github
<ochosi> ok, well even 11.10 is fine
<ochosi> anything really :)
<ochosi> thanks for testing!
<charlie-tca> downloading now
<charlie-tca> you are very welcome
<charlie-tca> Anyone able to install using the 64bit images today?
<charlie-tca> madnick, you need to update the daily tracker for your tests, please.
<madnick> charlie-tca: irl poked me (fridge stopped working, had to go and get fuses) will do it now, the install is done I see
<charlie-tca> Did we do the same tests? I had to run some, since there were none in the tracker yet
<charlie-tca> OH! sorry. misread that line. Did you get the refrigerator fixed?
<madnick> Yes, but all my food is ruined :(
<charlie-tca> Ouch!
<charlie-tca> That doesn't help anything :(
<madnick> Btw, today is the first time I login to the tracker, it says: Warning: http://91.189.93.73/ does not look like a trustworthy URL. 
<madnick> Ill just login :P
<madnick> charlie-tca: btw, the desktop one today, said i was not connected to internet.
<madnick> But Im not sure its a bug
<madnick> Or if the DNS was not updated
<charlie-tca> weird
<charlie-tca> mine connected
<charlie-tca> I don't remember if the URL gave me that message or not. If it did, I must have added an exception to firefox
<madnick> Well, its the same url I got from the release channel, so i will trust it 
<madnick> ok i filled in all things i've tested so far, will continue to poke around a bit
<charlie-tca> Thanks for doing that. I am sorry to hear about the food, though.
<madnick> The worst part about it, is that I have stocked up on some nice caribou :(
<madnick> Can't eat that now
<charlie-tca> Oh, man!
<charlie-tca> I really think that is good eating, too
<madnick> I will make sure to change my fuses from 6amp to 10amp, but I am not allowed to do it, change the panel, because im technically not a certified electrician, even tho I worked alot with eletricity/eletronics, last time i changed some stuff they got pretty mad :P
<charlie-tca> I know that one, too. I been yelled at by some mighty fine electricians for doing stuff like that.
<madnick> yup, it is quite frustrating :P
<madnick> knome: since I'm sorta done with the greeter things, where shall i put it? launchpad?
<madnick> (this includes the settings interface)
<charlie-tca> Will have to wait until tomorrow to see if Alternate 64 will work
<charlie-tca> GridCube: good afternoon, sir
<GridCube> good afternoon mister charlie-tca 
<GridCube> how are you in this nice day?
<charlie-tca> Testing is going daily again. You were correct about the daily tracker.
<GridCube> :) great!
<charlie-tca> I am fine, finger is healing nicely
<GridCube> i've done just a few tests lately, like 2
<GridCube> :) good to hear that 
<scott-work> charlie-tca: what happened to your finger?  nothing too bad i hope
<charlie-tca> I cut it, doc put 4 stitches in it
<charlie-tca> I bleed well
<GridCube> :o
<GridCube> well its good now
<GridCube> so charlie-tca, you can get some nice reports of tests?
<GridCube> like charts and things
<charlie-tca> Not that I can find yet
<GridCube> thats what madnick and I where working on next :P superb charts for tests
<charlie-tca> So far, all I get is the results on the tracker. I can't seem to get reports to work
<GridCube> :) oh well it will come i guess
<GridCube> its still better than the google spreadsheet
<charlie-tca> You think? I hope so. It doesn't help much when all you can see is today's results
<GridCube> true that
<charlie-tca> I don't get to see if it failed even yesterday
<GridCube> i think that, data is there, report system should be there too
<charlie-tca> I agree. Maybe that is still in-work, though
<charlie-tca> We can now have more than one entry for each test, per person. If I test both VBox and hardware, I can make two entries for it.
<GridCube> :) yes
<GridCube> and in theory you will be able to load presets of test machines, so you cansay... "i did x test with y specs" 
<GridCube> also bug reports reported there would send a message to the reported bug with the user specs, testcase and build number
<GridCube> but that was particularly hard to do as far as i understand
<charlie-tca> I don't know where you put your test machine information
<GridCube> its not enabled yet
<GridCube> it should be on the user configuration panel
<GridCube> stgraber said it would be implemented but he didnt knew when
<charlie-tca> All Xubuntu 64bit images fail to install today
<knome> GridCube, remember that you have until the end of next week to write and finish the specification for discussion about the media players :)
<GridCube> yes 
<GridCube> bad weeks, finals and such
<knome> well yeah. still
<GridCube> i could simply drop all of it, its a matter of tastes, and sudo apt-get its just a few strikes away, tho i still think gmusicbrowser its like the worst of all posible options
<knome> GridCube, i do encourage writing the specification though.
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> will try to get it done
<knome> thanks
<GridCube> :)
<knome> it's not so strict, we can wait a bit longer, but the general idea is to have the specs written, so we have time to discuss and implement too
<GridCube> ok
<knome> the ultimate deadline is something around the end of the year, but as most of us have several items, discussind and dealing incomplete specs might drag a bit
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> talking about issues
<knome> mm?
<GridCube> i've send a message to the guy that did the kbdleds thing, he never answered
<knome> try again
<knome> things don't always come easy
<Unit193> I'd say the GDoc was better, I could actually enter stuff in that...
<pleia2> charlie-tca: thanks, since the doc he linked was just a draft I wasn't sure if "3 or 5" was a placeholder or an actual choice we had :)
<charlie-tca> Choice, I don't think anyone touched the draft since it was drawn up at UDS
<pleia2> that's good
<charlie-tca> :)
<pleia2> http://www.thevarguy.com/2011/12/07/open-source-heartbreak-learning-to-love-again-with-xfce4/
<baizon> nice to hear :)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-12-08
<ScottL> ochosi, knome:  just want to say, i think greybird is one hell of a theme
<ScottL> i've been playing with the others that ship with xubuntu and i find most are not esthetically attractive at all, but greybird certainly is
<ochosi> thanks ScottL 
<ScottL> is there a default tool installed to adjust the monitor
<ScottL> perhaps for adjusting multi-monitor settings and such
<ScottL> lxarandar?
<Unit193> ScottL: Check out Blackbird, it's a good start even though it's not done ;)
<ochosi> ScottL: settings-manager > display?
<astraljava> Anyone here using unetbootin for USB sticks when creating a start-up disk?
<astraljava> What can I do when it gives me the wrong /dev/sdX and doesn't let me change it?
<knome> install windows
<astraljava> *rolls eyes*
<astraljava> What start-up disk did you think I was attempting to create?!
<knome> :)
<astraljava> TTL ry. is a funny organisation. In their newsletter, which is HTML of course, it says "if the newsletter is broken, please click on link to read it online".
<knome> :P
<astraljava> Reading that email on mutt under xterm, is a loooooot of fun,
<astraljava> knome: How nice our government really is: http://tinyurl.com/7dk5o92
<knome> heh
<GridCube> meeting time?
<astraljava> No. Hammer time!
 * GridCube dances
<knome> hah
<knome> what hammer? :P
<knome> yup
<knome> let's wait for a while for people to pop up
 * madnick pops u
<knome> we don't have much on the agenda, so it should be quick
<astraljava> http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/picture/NastyFO/HAMMERTIME.png
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Dec  8 18:01:47 2011 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> #topic Ongoing Business
<knome> #subtopic Ubuntu moving to 5-year release schedule for LTS
<GridCube> i think its pretty obvious by now that we can not do that
<knome> #info micahg created a proposal/draft for Xubuntu LTS's, can be read at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-December/008082.html
<knome> any comments about that?
 * micahg was hoping mr_pouit could comment
<knome> i'm planning to carrying this to our next meeting, where we could have a simple yay/nay vote for this
 * GridCube seconds
<knome> meanwhile let's read any discussion/comments
<knome> but i think this is a good proposal, and it's looks viable too
<GridCube> as i just said, and not being a developer or nothing, i don't think we should commit to that
<knome> commit to *what* ?
<GridCube> 5 years lts
<knome> yeah, that's not what micah is proposing. did you read the mail/link?
<GridCube> yes, 3 years
<knome> exactly. if you have any comments about the current proposed LTS plan, feel free to send them to the mailing list so others can chime in
<GridCube> sorry for the missunderstandment
<knome> #info Wait one more week for comments/discussion on the mailing list
<GridCube> :) ok
<knome> #info Voting on the draft by micahg in the next community meeting
<knome> #info Following micahg's plan would also maintain our recognized derivative status
<knome> #subtopic Meeting times
<knome> #action knome to set up a new schedule for meetings, where meetings would ideally happen in the middle of the week to make it easier for the release meeting updates
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to set up a new schedule for meetings, where meetings would ideally happen in the middle of the week to make it easier for the release meeting updates
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> #subtopic Packaging, Development
<knome> micahg, ?
<micahg> not too much going on, just some package name changes and armhf coming online
<knome> can you post that again with #info in the beginning of the line? thanks :)
<micahg> #info not too much going on, just some font package name changes and armhf coming online
<knome> #subtopic Bug Triage, Testing
<knome> GridCube, any updates?
<knome> apparently not
<GridCube> not really
<knome> #subtopic Website, Documentation
<pleia2> we had website sprint on Saturday, results here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-December/008071.html
<knome> pleia2, with #info, pleeeease :)
<pleia2> bah
<knome> heh
<pleia2> #info we had website sprint on Saturday, results here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-December/008071.html
<pleia2> I do want to repeat that we need feedback on useful stuff for http://wp.xubuntu.org/developertools/
<knome> #info we need feedback on useful stuff for http://wp.xubuntu.org/developertools/
<pleia2> sorry, do I need to info every line?
<knome> anything you want in the team updates
<pleia2> ok
<GridCube> that should have been an action instead
<knome> GridCube, not really, with no assignee nick
<GridCube> :P
<pleia2> that's about it :)
<knome> yeah
<knome> #indo we probably need a third (and hopefully final) website sprint, more information will be on the mailing lists later
<knome> #info we probably need a third (and hopefully final) website sprint, more information will be on the mailing lists later
<knome> #subtopic Marketing, Artwork
<knome> ochosi, you here?
<knome> pleia2, what about twitter? :)
<pleia2> #info We now have a twitter account at @XubuntuLinux
<pleia2> #info and stickers! I've detailed how others can make them too here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing#Current_projects
<GridCube> the people from studio wanted to merge stuff with us, wasnt that something to do with wallpapers and stuff?
<knome> GridCube, yes, but that's something they need to go through
<GridCube> :) ok
<knome> pleia2, what's the minimum amount of stickers, any prices?
<pleia2> knome: depends on where you are, moo.com is in the UK and US, for me stickers start at $13 for 52 (the minimum) plus shipping
<knome> okay
<knome> so that's about $.25 for a sticker :)
<knome> not too bad
<knome> #subtopic General updates
<knome> something else that we might want to add to the team reports, or note at the release meeting?
<GridCube> not from me
<madnick> knome: could you email the report?
<knome> madnick, i can
<madnick> to release meeting
<madnick> awesome
<knome> been a quiet week, but that's just calm before the storm
<knome> madnick, btw, can you attend the meeting? i can't, i probably won't be online much whole day tomorrow
<madnick> I likely can
<knome> okay
<knome> if you can't... it's just canonical bureaucracy
<knome> ;)
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> #info No announcements.
<knome> #topic Other Business
<knome> any other business?
<micahg> knome: that's not fair
<knome> micahg, what is? :)
<micahg> canonical bureaucracy?
<knome> i was just kidding. but really, if it seems we can't attend even if trying moderately, it's not the end of the world.
<madnick> I've been attending and answering questions so far
<micahg> ok
<knome> yeah. the idea is to be able to attend every week
<knome> i hope to not bump into *any* surprises this cycle
<knome> #info No other business.
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Dec  8 18:26:59 2011 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2011/xubuntu-devel.2011-12-08-18.01.moin.txt
<astraljava> That's gotta be the world record.
<knome> yeah
<knome> and i was focusing on typing slowly
<knome> so i don't do any typos
<astraljava> I hope you don't feel bad about that one #indo.
<knome> hehe
<knome> http://animalsbeingdicks.com/page/14
<astraljava> *ouch*
<ochosi> sorry, seems i just missed the meeting
<knome> yeah. by 12 minutes :)
<ochosi> that's not _very_ much :)
<knome> almost half of the meeting ;)
<ochosi> lol
<pleia2> knome: are we publishing the meeting notes somewhere? (I need to grab them for UWN)
<knome> pleia2, sure.
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<pleia2> oh good
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2011-12-08 :)
<pleia2> thanks
<knome> i just fixed some formatting there
<knome> might want to refresh
<knome> skaet, we're voting about the xubuntu lts plans in our next meeting in about a week :)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-12-09
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | Working on: Precise Pangolin | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Bugs List: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/PrecisePangolin | Daily Testing results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds
<charlie-tca> To all the testers: we are now tracking daily testing on the qa.iso.ubuntu.com tracker
<charlie-tca> Anybody able to do the full disk installs today?
<madnick> yes, i will do it after the meeting
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<GridCube> charlie-tca, alternate 32bits on vbox full install, its ok?
<charlie-tca> yes, that would be great! It should be working in VBox again
<GridCube> :)
<madnick> hehe, forgot which channel the meeting was in :(
<GridCube> madnick, do you know what "detailer specifications" should say? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/DefaultMediaPlayer
<GridCube> i mean, what is it for?
<madnick> Sorry no
<GridCube> mmkay
<GridCube> will ask knome then
<ochosi> GridCube: i think what needs to be done generally is an in-depth application comparison between the current and the proposed default
<GridCube> yes, but when it try to do that my patent dislike for gmusicbrowser doesnt let me be... mmm... objetive?
<ochosi> then you're probably not the right person for that job?
<GridCube> i said that, but then again im the one who wants we using a good music player instead of gmb on xubuntu
<ochosi> i'm not saying that you can't be biased, but your bias can't be the sole basis of an app-comparison
<GridCube> and i have to find a way of doing so being objetive so its taking time :P
<ochosi> taking time is fine
<GridCube> thats why it has a huge "work in progress" there :P
<ochosi> right
<GridCube> hey ochosi question, i've accidentally deleted the sound applet from my panel
<ochosi> well, doing an app-comparison really should include quite a wide variety of aspects, even stuff that has nothing to do with usability (e.g. maintenance, packaging, health of the project)
<ochosi> you mean the indicator?
<GridCube> yes 
<GridCube> the one that also controls the music player
<ochosi> then i guess you need to reinstall the package indicator-sound
<GridCube> its installed, i've just removed it from the panel :/
<ochosi> then you need to add the indicator-plugin back to the panel
<ochosi> you can't remove one indicator by itself, you can only remove the whole plugin
<GridCube> oooh
<GridCube> its there now
<GridCube> how weird
<ochosi> why is that weird? :)
<GridCube> because the indicator plugin was activated
<GridCube> but just the sound thingy wasnt
<ochosi> are you sure?
<ochosi> e.g. nm-applet falls back to normal trayicon if you remove the indicator
<GridCube> dunno
<GridCube> there
<GridCube> i lost the sound thingy again
<Unit193> The testing page *FINALLY* let me login >_<
<GridCube> the indicator plugin closes and restarts but the sound thingy doesnt come back if i do that, the nm-applet does tho
<ochosi> then it's just nm-applet falling back to trayicon
<GridCube> guess so
<ochosi> what do you exactly mean when you're saying "it closes and restarts"?
<GridCube> if i close the indicato plugin (left click > close) it restarts and it only has the nm-applet
<charlie-tca> They are still working on the tracker page
<ochosi> you mean "remove"?
<GridCube> yes "Quitar"
<astraljava> Indicator Plugin has a Guitar applet?! *cool*
<ochosi> GridCube: that means you're removing it. if you want to keep the sound-indicator (and all other indicators for that matter) you can't remove it
<ochosi> GridCube: it's like removing any other plugin from the panel and then saying "why isn't it there anymore"? :)
<GridCube> yes i know, i just didnt knew how to get it back after accidentally removing it
<ochosi> k :)
<ochosi> bbl
<GridCube> :)
<pleia2> http://linuxblog.darkduck.com/2011/12/xubuntu-unbelievable-easyness-of.html
<GridCube> its unvelieble how long tests are being lately, this installation im doing has started 2 hours ago and i still have like 2 more hours to go according the installator
<Unit193> I seem to know someone that's already running Pangolin of some sort (be it VM or not)
<GridCube> i've installed it a few times already
<GridCube> each time seems to take more time to install
<Unit193> Keeps it though, updates and su7ch
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> great had to reboot
<GridCube> lost the installation
#xubuntu-devel 2011-12-10
<astraljava> Hmm... interesting. Muting works from Fn+F7, but unmuting doesn't.
<knome> madnick, there will be no release-meeting on 23 or 30
<planter> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-12-11
<micahg> ooh, one more package and I can upload xubuntu-meta for armhf
<ochosi> morning everyone
<baizon> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> hi baizon 
<micahg> about to upload the meta for armhf...
<ochosi> what's armhf?
<micahg> a new port
<micahg> arm with hard float
<ochosi> interesting
<ochosi> in what devices is that used?
<micahg> I think it's usable in most newer arm machines
<ochosi> ok
<Lectus> Hello! Where can i submit bugs to Xubuntu dev team? I think I found one.
<ochosi> generally on launchpad
<ochosi> but depending on what part of xubuntu it affects, you might have to redirect it upstream
<Lectus> it might be XFCE thing
<ochosi> you can also search on launchpad or bugzilla.xfce.org whether a bugreport already exists
<ochosi> what's the bug then?
<Lectus> when the clock shows a date with accents like Ã¡ the clock disappears from the panel
<Lectus> might be something with unicode support
<ochosi> which clock are you using?
<ochosi> (there are three plugins for that)
<Lectus> the normal clock applet... though I switched to Orage clock and the clock doesn't disappear, but it shows a weird character instead
<ochosi> ok, you can also try the datetime-plugin
<ochosi> but you might have to install that one first
<ochosi> xfce4-datetime-plugin (i think)
<Lectus> I'll take a look at it
<ochosi> those bugs should definitely be reported to xfce-devs
<ochosi> you can also report them in launchpad, but it's better if they get fixed upstream
<Lectus> yeah I'll report them because it's something trivial but annoying
<ochosi> yes
<micahg> mr_pouit: sorry I didn't add the gvfs-backends before uploading the -meta
<mr_pouit> micahg: in precise?
<micahg> yeah
<mr_pouit> I think I did it back then?
<mr_pouit> mmh
<micahg> haha, that was oneiric, never mind :)
<mr_pouit> at least the bug is marked as fix released ;D
<mr_pouit> huhu ok
#xubuntu-devel 2012-12-03
<mr_pouit> mmh, this is "alpha week", isn't it?
<mr_pouit> so I'll upload exo 0.10.0 and thunar 1.6.0 next week, not to disturb testing...
<elfy> didn't think there were any alpha's - just specific testing as and when 
<mr_pouit> knome will know
<smartboyhw> mr_pouit, no alpha except Kubuntu I think
<smartboyhw> I saw on the -release mailing list
<mr_pouit> no alpha except Xubuntu
<mr_pouit> oh no, you're right
<mr_pouit> so I don't need to wait ;>
<elfy> mr_pouit: not as far as I know 
<knome> mr_pouit, no, just go ahead
<smartboyhw> mr_pouit, exact mail: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-November/002088.html
<mr_pouit> yeah, I'm subscribed, so I found it ;-)
<zequence> knome: Hi. We changed the look on the Ubuntu Studio front page a bit. Put the news page there. Let us know what you think
<knome> zequence, i know you did. i helped scott do it :)
<knome> zequence, also, see the RT ticket i sent (you should've gotten an autoreply from RT)
<knome> zequence, as long as you/US are happy, i'm fine with whatever you do with the site :)
<zequence> knome: What is the code changing? Something about the news?
<knome> zequence, go to the front page, and scroll to bottom
<knome> wait, what...
<knome> zequence, well, there used to be an unnecessary link at the footer.
<knome> zequence, it's simply removing that (a very trivial change) and some php comments
<knome> anyway, 99.99% of people wouldn't even notice that
<knome> :)
<knome> hey bluesabre 
<zequence> Yea, probably
<bluesabre> hey knome
<zequence> We'll be doing a bit more news postings now, so hopefully that page will come alive more
<knome> zequence, if there's something else you need from me regarding the administration or code, feel free to ping me
<knome> zequence, but generally, please go away and change things as you see fit, no need to ask my permission :)
<zequence> knome: I think we aren't sure yet what we want, but one thing that comes to mind is it might be nice having a header on the front page, above the news, saying something like "Latest News"
<knome> zequence, right. do you think you'll make progress on knowing what you want soonish, or should i push that change in now?
<zequence> knome: Let me discuss it first. As it is a change in the code, would be ok if we could upload ourselves, but with all the hazzle of going through rt. seems like we better be totally sure
<zequence> I'm assuming you need to do a change to the theme..
<knome> yup. you can't pass IS though.
<knome> as long as the site is served by canonical, IS will need to go through the changes
<knome> that's why i asked if you're progressing; it's easier to get more changes in at the same time than dropping small things here and there
<zequence> Would probably be best to use a staging site in our own control. I could set one up.
<zequence> knome: I'll get back to you :)
<knome> probably, if you're unsure of the changes you want to do
<knome> zequence, great! :)
<knome> hey micahg, you around and have a moment?
<micahg> knome: a short moment :)
<knome> micahg, do you know if the action buttons applet uses xfce4-session-logout?
<micahg> knome: offhand, no idea
<knome> micahg, if yes, what's the parameter to give to it to get the confirmation dialog?
<knome> micahg, if not, what's the command to get that?
<knome> meh
<knome> i was hoping you knew ;]
 * micahg hasn't really dug into the xfce codebase, mr_pouit would be the one to ask
<knome> yeah, i know, but he's idle
<knome> i'll just try to find out myself
<micahg> I can look later in the week if he doesn't get back to you
<knome> nah
<knome> i'll just dig it up somewhere
<micahg> knome: figure out which binary hosts it, pull-lp-source foo; then grep
<knome> or ask him if i haven't found the answer before lionel gets back
<knome> i looked at the source already, i don't think it's that
<micahg> (that's what I'd have to do anyways)
<knome> but... :)
<knome> i'll find out.
<knome> thanks anyway :)
<knome> and have a nice day/evening
<GridCube> knome, http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/actions
<GridCube> its says; The plugin uses xfce4-session to handle the power actions, so it won't function properly if you use another or no session manager. 
<knome> GridCube, that seems outdated, and it's not really the question :)
<knome> GridCube, uses xfce4-session for sure, but what's the dialog/how does it call it to get the confirmation screen
<knome> GridCube, i don't mean the screen you get where you can choose what you want to do
<knome> GridCube, but the dialog which asks you if you *really* want to shut down/whatever
<GridCube> oh, ok, im trying to figure out how that progam is called actually, theres no reference to "action buttons" on the xfce git or synaptic
<knome> xfce4-session-logout is the one that's launched
<knome> but that + --help doesn't tell me how to get the confirmation dialog if i choose a specified action
<GridCube> thats the logout, not action buttons
<mr_pouit> the small dialog with the timer is created by the panel pkugin
<mr_pouit> *plugin
<GridCube> how is that plugin called?
<knome> micahg, that tells a lot.. :)
<knome> err, mr_pouit 
<mr_pouit> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/tree/plugins/actions/actions.c#n725
<knome> mr_pouit, so there's no way to get that without the applet?
<mr_pouit> I don't think so
<knome> exit
<knome> oops, wrong window
<knome> so, yeah
<knome> that answers my question
<knome> i'll just do something else then
<mr_pouit> hop, this thunar 1.6.0 upload closes 23 bugs
<knome> cool
<pleia2> there is now a https://www.facebook.com/xubuntuhungary
<pleia2> two admins who are known in the hungarian community, and me
<GridCube> there should be a xubuntu.deviantart.com, to ask for wallpapers and such
<pleia2> I think we'd need to make the decision to include more artwork first
<pleia2> which means dropping more default apps or going beyond CD size
<GridCube> pleia2, not so sure, i mean, having a place where we can encourage our users to go and find a theming community for their desktops aint that bad, regardless of wallpaper space
<micahg> we can have stuff in the archive that's not in the default install
<pleia2> micahg: ah, right!
<pleia2> GridCube: I just don't want to tell people to do work that has no possibility of being included
<pleia2> waste of effort and all that
<micahg> we can even do like Ubuntu Studio and have an installer in the menu that says get more wallpaper here or something
<pleia2> yeah, I like how they do that for some things
<pleia2> I want one for gimp and gnumeric :)
 * drc has used the same wallpaper for...or...three or four years :)
<pleia2> drc: yeah, me too
<elfy> I've probably still got the wallpaper I used 3 years ago ... 
<pleia2> *normal* people really like default selections of backgrounds
<elfy> oh right ... 
<elfy> :)
<drc> there's a difference between never throwing anything away and using the same thing for a long time:)
<elfy> ha ha 
<drc> I <might> use differing wallpapers if you could assign a different one to each virtual desktop
<pleia2> that would be neat
<elfy> then I'd feel honour bound to have different ones on each screen and would go nuts choosing 
<pleia2> hehe
<drc> Seeing as how I only have 2 VD's, it's not much of a problem for me.
<pleia2> 16 \o/
<drc> I'd have to take my shoes off to count that high.
<pleia2> true
<elfy> me too drc 
 * drc thinks pleia2's machine must resemble a maze of twisty passages full of grues.
 * pleia2 always carries a flashlight
 * drc wonders how many turns it takes her to turn it on?
<drc> But back to GridCube's original idea...There are many places one can get/put wallpapers...not sure there needs to be a "xubnuntu" wallpaper site/place/whatever.
<drc> Maybe a greater appeal to the artistic community for new wallpapers for new issues?
<knome> the problem with wallpapers are the size.
<knome> s/are/is/
<GridCube> knome, that can be arranged on the submit to gallery preferences of the deviantart groups
<knome> there are other ways to sort it out if they are not on the ISO.
<GridCube> mmhm yes
#xubuntu-devel 2012-12-04
<zequence> knome: I've setup a playground site for Ubuntu Studio
<knome> zequence, tack, i got the login info :)
<zequence> knome: Just trying to find out how to change the language.. I'm guessing I need to do that in a config file, since the language option is not available in general settings
<knome> the config file yeah, and then you need to upload .po -file to wp-content/languages/
<knome> (those aren't there if you downloaded from wordpress.org)
<zequence> ok
<knome> if you downloaded from .se, i'd assume changing the lang config in wp-config.php in root would be enough
<zequence> I didn't install it manually myself, so the setup is a bit custom I think
<zequence> Perhaps that is not such a good thing
<knome> mmh, maybe not
<knome> when you install yourself, you need to do a few more steps, but then again you know what you did :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-12-05
<ahoneybun> quiet
<Unit193> It is, but ye sure didn't wait long to find out for sure.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-12-07
<scott-work> pleia2: ping :)
<scott-work> knome: ping
<ochosi> scott-work: are you on a pinging spree? :)
<scott-work> hehe, i don't think so ;)  just had two different questions
<ochosi> btw, i think both read their backlogs
<pleia2> scott-work: pong
<scott-work> pleia2: hi!  there seems to be some confusion in #ubuntustudio-devel about email addresses and twitter. did you use an '@xubuntu.org' email address to set up xubuntu's twitter account?
<pleia2> scott-work: the @xubuntu.org addresses don't exist
<pleia2> but we have twitter.com/xubuntu for twitter
<scott-work> btw, this is a beautiful page: https://twitter.com/Xubuntu
<pleia2> thanks :)
<pleia2> knome did it
<scott-work> pleia2: okay. that clarifies some issues then. thank you very much.
<scott-work> pleia2: how are you doing? i haven't seen or talked with you for a while.
<scott-work> but i think you got married since i saw you?
<pleia2> scott-work: doing well, super busy with work changes and things, and *planning for* the wedding in April :)
<pleia2> hope all is well with you!
<scott-work> pleia2: hehe, sorry for misunderstanding or misremembering about the wedding, but i felt like a congratulations was probably appropriate :)  congratulations!
<pleia2> thanks :)
<scott-work> i'm doing well, got a lot of things going on (especially at work) but things are starting to transition again so i'm getting more involved in ubuntu studio work again. i just wish my personal projects were moving a little faster though as there is sooo much i want to do.
<pleia2> I sure know how that can be
<GridCube> !st
#xubuntu-devel 2012-12-08
<ochosi> pleia2: i guess xubuntu could make use of g+ new community feature
<smartboyhw> BTW we already set up one for Ubuntu Studio
<smartboyhw> So good for you guys to set up a Xubuntu one
<pleia2> ochosi: volunteering? :)
<ochosi> pleia2: ooops :)
<pleia2> ochosi: I think like most of our other resources we'll see if something springs up organically and then bestow official-hood upon them when they are awesome
<ochosi> yeah, makes sense
<pleia2> (unless someone actually does want to volunteer to run it, then by all means, but I think we're all too busy)
<ochosi> yeah, agreed to that
<ochosi> actually it has been awkwardly silent here since uds
<ochosi> i mean not all the time, but in general
<pleia2> yeah
<ochosi> btw, i've been working quite a bit on the icon-theme
<ochosi> i think we might actually pull off a png theme for 13.04
<pleia2> yeah, I saw some talk in #shimmer
<ochosi> which would speed up the whole experience
<pleia2> sweet
<ochosi> basically i've been drawing missing sizes of icons lately
<ochosi> and pulling in new/updated icons from elementary upstream
<pleia2> :)
<ochosi> adnan: didn't you want to contribute to xubuntu artwork at some point?
<adnan> mhm
<adnan> let me just read up quickly
<ochosi> sure, ping me when you have time :)
<adnan> atm got some uni stuff
<adnan> I'll hl u when I got free time
<ochosi> sure, no rush
<adnan> icons or?
<ochosi> yah
<adnan> btw rendering clay model of my university blender project:  Fra:1 Mem:78.30M (126.56M, peak 210.12M) | Mem: 19.52M, Peak: 19.52M | Scene, RenderLayer | Elapsed: 12:55:01.98 | Rendering | Path Tracing Tile 5783/6480
<adnan> xD
<ochosi> mostly cause working on them alone isn't as much fun as doing it as a team, and because it's low-hanging fruit
<adnan> 13 hours lol
<adnan> mhm
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-02
<elfy> ochosi: not got time to deal with it now - but just so you know - neither mrpouit's nor micah's ppas have trusty - set them to saucy and then apt fails to find libxfce4ui
<Noskcaj> elfy, I still think the best course of action is to get libxfce4ui uploaded to experimental
<ochosi> Noskcaj: maybe, but i think the best course of action is to get things uploaded to ubuntu asap
<elfy> agreed ochosi 
<ochosi> i'm a fan of the additional value of getting things through debian, but in my experience, we lose a lot of valuable time
<Noskcaj> Yeah, i'm working on libxfce now, it should be ppa ready soon
<ochosi> cool
<Noskcaj> What should the maintainer be?
<ochosi> good question, if you only throw it in a PPA it's not that important
<ochosi> but libxfce4ui is already packaged
<ochosi> micah did that one
<ochosi> the one we need is the indicator-plugin
<elfy> libxfce4ui is the one I'm not finding 
<ochosi> yeah, but for that one i would presume that copying the package within a PPA to trusty would suffice
<Noskcaj> ochosi, I was adding a few changes for the pkg-xfce svn as well, minor stuff
<elfy> I hate wandering around in launchpad trying to find downloads
<ochosi> Noskcaj: ah right
<elfy> not that it really matters I guess, until I can ask people to test it properly from PPAs it's a moot point
<Noskcaj> Plus i'll add symbols.
<ochosi> elfy: yeah i think ideally we will have all three packages in a PPA together...
<Noskcaj> We should use ~xubuntu-dev for that, but i'll see if i can get it all into my PPA
<elfy> I'm just redoing the 'old' panel for the moment 
<ochosi> Noskcaj: yeah, in a way we should, otoh for testing it can also be a separate PPA so it's easier and more straightforward for testers
<ochosi> in the end we should get this into trusty anyway and hopefully also back into saucy
<elfy> yep +1 to both of those
<elfy> tbh though it's shouldn't be should get this into trusty, but have to :p
<ochosi> yeah...
<ochosi> Noskcaj: i really hope you'll get package upload rights soon, micahg is always very swamped with work...
<elfy> and +1 to that as well
<Noskcaj> :)
 * ochosi feels he has to keep going saying stuff that elfy will then +1...
<elfy> +1
<elfy> :p
<ochosi> bbl
<Noskcaj> Everything is at https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/indicator-gtk3 , I probably did some packaging wrong due to not getting a test build to go
<ali1234> ochosi: fixed GVariant
<slickymaster> morning all
<slickymaster> elfy: as soon as you have a minute to spare please merge https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/ubuntu-manual-tests/+merge/196989
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: ping
<knome> slickymaster, merged and updated in the tracker
<knome> err
<knome> not yet
<knome> ;)
<knome> now it is
<slickymaster> knome: thanks
<slickymaster> proceeding now to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1250560
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1250560 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Use of gksudo/gksu in testcases for Xubuntu Desktop in Trusty Daily " [Undecided,In progress]
<knome> :)
<cub> Hi elfy, I read the "Xubuntu and Autopilot Testing" email you sent to the Ubuntu Studio devel-list asking if anyone would have time to look into it, what would that be? Where can I find out more on what we would need to do?
<knome> cub, generally for digging into autopilot, join #ubuntu-quality
<ochosi> morning all
<knome> hullo ochosi 
<ochosi> hullo knome 
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, pong
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: morning. 
<slickymaster> morning ochosi 
<knome> hey jjfrv8 :)
<jjfrv8> hey all
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: just wanted to know if you want to split things with the xfdesktop like we did with parole
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, you want to do Usage and I'll do Preferences?
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: it's a deal :)
<jjfrv8> cool
<slickymaster> I saw that you already define in the wiki the template to work with
<jjfrv8> ah ok, was just going to ask you that
<ochosi> actually, before we continue, i think i'll try to replicate the namespace of docs.xfce
<ochosi> then i don't have to change all the links again :)
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, when you say the 'template' you mean this? http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stds-xfdesktop
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: yeaps, that's the one
<jjfrv8> :)
<slickymaster> I probably should had called it the screenshot standardization document
<ochosi> hm, seems i can't easily do that as xfce does some url-rewriting...
<ochosi> so nevermind me :)
<knome> ochosi, boo. ;)
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, I think I gave you the same permissions you had before. If not, maybe ochosi would be able to fix it, I won't be around til later this evening.
<ochosi> yeah, i'm an admin on the wiki now, so if you have problems, i can (hopefully) help
<slickymaster> jjfrv8, ochosi, if needed I'll bother you with that ;)
<ochosi> sounds good :>
<jjfrv8> i'm surprised I could type this early :)  bbl
<elfy> knome: ok - checked the various issues with the testcases on the pad - done bugs for them - all of them :(
<knome> heh
<elfy> linked it all to the blueprint so I don't forget 
<knome> oki
<slickymaster> elfy: hi, you're a hard man to find
<elfy> hi slickymaster - I always reply to mails :)
<slickymaster> elfy: I'm thinking that we should probably think of making a manual testcase for mugshot
<slickymaster> elfy: I can do it, of you're ok with it
<elfy> yep - I just want to make sure that testcases we're doing for the new features are properly installable before hand
<elfy> I assume you saw the mail to the dev list at the weekend re the new things
<slickymaster> yeaps
<elfy> k
<slickymaster> the question is, where is the bug going to be filled against, ubuntu manual tests, mugshot itself or xubuntu -qa?
<elfy> and I've just reported some bugs that are linked to the qa blueprint that we'll need to deal with as well
<elfy> manual tests
<slickymaster> do you want me to raise it or do you prefer to do it yourself?
<elfy> you can if you want - just make sure to link the bug on the blueprint as well :)
<elfy> we'll need at least 3 - mugshot/menulibre/lightlocker
<slickymaster> ok, will do, including the testcase itself, since I've already translated it and tested it before
<elfy> possibly also gtk3 ind - but I'm not sure that we can actually test that :)
<elfy> and if whiskermenu is going to be a default - we'll need one for that as well
<knome> elfy, the gtk3 indicators are going to be at least in some way intertwined with the panel tests
<slickymaster> elfy: yes, but there's no guaranties on the whiskermenu yet, are there? 
<elfy> yea - maybe so knome - but still what can we test? the indicators work?
<elfy> slickymaster: no - not yet
<knome> elfy, yep, like if the sound indicator changes the volume when you scoll over it and such
<knome> scroll too
<slickymaster> well, I'll start on the mugshot one
<elfy> yep - not much work in getting that into a test tbh
<elfy> slickymaster: ok :)
<slickymaster> afterwards I'll pick up on whatever it's needed
<elfy> slickymaster: are you going to report all 3 though? 
<slickymaster> elfy: yes, no problem
<elfy> ok - thanks
<slickymaster> np
<slickymaster> I'll try to do it after lunch
<knome> elfy, slickymaster: just a warning that menulibre is changing... poke bluesabre 
<elfy> slickymaster: actually - I'm sitting here feeling sorry for myself - I'll report them all and link them - you'll be able to pick them up from the blueprint
<elfy> knome: ok - thanks - I need to tie down when these things are going to appear - was waiting till later in the day to grab bluesabre 
<slickymaster> elfy: okie dokie, I'll wait thejn
<slickymaster> *then
<knome> the menulibre changes should land relatively soon
<elfy> ok 
<slickymaster> elfy: I'll try also to get https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1250560 done by the middle of the week to get it merge and the tracker updated for the wekkend
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1250560 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Use of gksudo/gksu in testcases for Xubuntu Desktop in Trusty Daily " [Undecided,In progress]
<slickymaster> *weekend
<elfy> ok - all done 
<elfy> slickymaster: ok thanks
<slickymaster> elfy: yeah, saw it
 * DanChapman waves to elfy and slickymaster
<elfy> hi DanChapman :)
 * slickymaster waves back to DanChapman 
<slickymaster> hi DanChapman 
<slickymaster> elfy: quick question, What do you mean by old format in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1256892
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1256892 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "No mention of menu in test for USC" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> it's not been updated to the new way of writing them
<elfy> but I'm going to talk to balloons about that one 
<slickymaster> ok
<elfy> I've assigned me to it now 
<elfy> bbl
<bluesabre> elfy, knome, slickymaster: it's going to be 95% different than the existing version, so don't bother writing any tests yet :)
<bluesabre> bbl
<slickymaster> bluesabre: ok
<slickymaster> elfy: I also picked https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1256894 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1256898
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1256894 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "XFCE bottom panel missing from testcase" [Undecided,In progress]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1256898 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed : xfce4 session handling" [Undecided,In progress]
<elfy> bluesabre: thanks 
<knome> elfy, slickymaster: edited bug 1256894 to be flavor-agnostic
<ubottu> bug 1256894 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Hidden panels' popping up missing from testcase" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1256894
<elfy> ok
<ochosi> ali1234: wait, so does that mean i can test it now without trashing my panel config? :)
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it means maybe it won't trash your panel
<ochosi> hehe, ok
<ali1234> i just tried it on a different computer and it worked
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> so you can save your panel config with it and you can push a config-file through it?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> save.py > panel.cfg
<ali1234> load.py panel.cfg
<ali1234> if you have launchers it doesn't backup the .desktop, so they break
<ali1234> copied them manually and it works
<brainwash> does the software-center crash few seconds after launch for anybody else (trusty)?
<slickymaster_> brainwash: yes, there's a bug reported on that, by me, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/1204073
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1204073 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed with signal 5 in _XReadEvents()" [Medium,New]
<brainwash> looks different
<brainwash> it is basically bug 1251814
<ubottu> bug 1251814 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software-center crashes after launching" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1251814
<brainwash> my report is currently hidden
<brainwash> "software-center crashed with signal 5 in cairo_surface_flush()"
<ochosi> ali1234: sweet, that sounds almost like what you had in mind for version 1.0
<slickymaster_> brainwash: when you say hidden, you mean you can't access the report in /var/crash ?
<brainwash> nah, set to private I mean
<slickymaster_> ah
<brainwash> apport has uploaded a huge core dump :D
<slickymaster_> about 15-17 MB I would guess
<brainwash> 14.3
<slickymaster_> I've experienced that one, also
<brainwash> I will boot a daily image and test it later
<slickymaster_> I'm testing today's image as we speak, so in a matter of minutes I'll ping after trying SC
<slickymaster_> ping you ^^
<brainwash> ok :)
<ochosi> elfy: if and after you've tried Noskcaj's PPA (https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/indicator-gtk3) and it works, would you mind updating the wiki instructions?
<elfy> ochosi: I'll try and get on that tomorrow at some point - and if I do get it working - of course I will :)
<ochosi> elfy: thanks very cool. i'd do it but i don't have a trusty testbox at this point..
<elfy> ochosi: yep - that's ok 
<slickymaster_> brainwash: yeaps. comirmed
<slickymaster_> *confirmed
<brainwash> slickymaster_: thanks
<slickymaster_> brainwash: I'm going to upload to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/1251814 the backtrace of my crash as there is none in that bug report
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1251814 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software-center crashes after launching" [High,Incomplete]
<brainwash> slickymaster_: ok, I'll mark my report as dupe later
<slickymaster_> ok
<slickymaster_> bbl
<Noskcaj> What should i do to fix https://launchpadlibrarian.net/158111167/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.xfce4-indicator-plugin_2.2.0-2ubuntu1.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ?
<mr_pouit> checking for gtk+-3.0 >= 3.6.0... not found
<mr_pouit> you're missing the build dep on gtk3 devel libs
<Noskcaj> thanks, will fix
<mr_pouit> that was actually written in the log :P
<Noskcaj> I am too stupid for this. 
<Noskcaj> why can't the issue always be at the bottom of the log
<mr_pouit> it was at the bottom of the "classic" configure script output "checking for $stuff..."
<mr_pouit> but because of the failure, it printed the whole config.log, which isn't particularly readable
<Noskcaj> yeah, i saw
<Noskcaj> mr_pouit,Since you are here, could you help with a gthumb packaging issue? https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/gthumb/3.2.5 has the details. 
<Noskcaj> Can someone review https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-terminal/0.6.2-4ubuntu1 ?
<ochosi> ali1234: wow, instead of the patch being merged, something rather unexpected happened and the bug in lightdm was marked "invalid" (without explanation): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1256150
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1256150 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Xorg guest session fails to start if the user has logged out and logged in again" [High,Confirmed]
<ochosi> ali1234: meh, stupid me, overlooked it was marked invalid only for xorg... anyway, highlighted the issue to robert and he said he'll push your fix, so congrats and thanks! :)
<slickymaster> good night all
<Unit193> slickymaster: Sleep well. ;)
<slickymaster> I'll hope so, when I'll get to bed
<Noskcaj> Can someone with a spare 14.04 install try https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/indicator-gtk3 ? I don't fully trust my packaging
<Noskcaj> I know the dependencies are wrong, not sure what else. It should all be put in a new ~xubuntu-dev PPA really
<ochosi> Noskcaj: if you can also upload the pkgs for saucy, i'm in
<ochosi> Noskcaj: theoretically you could try to just copy the packages to saucy, but i'm not sure it's the same
<ochosi> either way, thanks for your efforts!
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-03
<slickymaster> knome, I was starting to work on https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1250560, but apparently elfy already had replaced every occurrence of gksudo with a non-root command
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1250560 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Use of gksudo/gksu in testcases for Xubuntu Desktop in Trusty Daily " [Undecided,In progress]
<knome> heh.
<slickymaster> so, the question is what do I do with the bug?
<knome> if it's fixed, mark it as fix released ;)
<slickymaster> knome, ok, thanks
<Unit193> knome: Fix commited, unless you can apt-get it.
<slickymaster> Unit193, actually I was in doubt between commited and released
<slickymaster> *committed
<knome> Unit193, well that's not appropriate
<knome> slickymaster, if it's in the tracker, released; if it's not in the tracker, committed
<slickymaster> knome, it's in the tracker
<knome> then it's released
<slickymaster> so we can consider that the fix has already been released
<slickymaster> ok
<slickymaster> done
<slickymaster> morning all
<ochosi> morning
<knome> hullo
<slickymaster> ochosi: according to http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stds-xfdesktop the appearance style to be is used is Xfce
<ochosi> slickymaster: yeah, since this is a part of xfce-core, we have to stick to their guidelines
<ochosi> and it's less problematic as with parole because there's no gtk3 part
<slickymaster> ochosi: WTH can I get this style? I've wrecked my brain searching for it but haven't been able to find it
<ochosi> ok, you need to install the package "gtk2-engines-xfce"
<slickymaster> I must be going dumb or something :(
<ochosi> nah, it's not really intuitive
<ochosi> sorry for not mentioning that earlier
<slickymaster> done
<ochosi> i thought we had discussed that already when commencing work on the parole docs
<slickymaster> tks
<slickymaster> nopes, and since I'm faithful to Greybird-Mac never have used it before
<slickymaster> but it's done
<ochosi> ah, greybird-mac? how does that look exactly?
<slickymaster> IMHO, and with the elementary Xfce darker icons it's one of the best looking desktops out there
<ochosi> :)
 * ochosi bows
<slickymaster> ochosi: aren't we going to do a command-line options for xfdesktop, like we did with parole?
 * slickymaster thanks
<slickymaster> ochosi: ^^^
<ochosi> yeah, that's currently in "advanced" in xfdesktop
<slickymaster> saw it now
<slickymaster> it's quite incomplete though
<slickymaster> I'm guessing it's still not finished, right?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i guess more of the xfce docs could use work
<ochosi> don't think anyone's really working on that
<slickymaster> since we're working on it, I'll complete the command-line options for xfdesktop
<ochosi> sweet
<ochosi> eric will be quite happy about that
<Laney> hello
<Laney> can someone review https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-session/light-locker/+merge/196436 ?
<ochosi> hey Laney 
<Laney> hiya
<ochosi> the patch looks ok, i don't know about the packaging
<ochosi> i'll quickly test the patch here though, just to be sure, one sec...
<Laney> seems fine
<ali1234> looks wrong to me
<Laney> maybe you want to have it forwarded upstream though
<ali1234> i mean why is there a patch, and also the same change on the file the patch is supposed to apply to?
<ochosi> yeah, that's the packaging part i don't know much about
<ochosi> Laney: yeah, i'll make sure it gets upstream too
<slickymaster> ochosi: I was thinking if he shouldn't made a separate command-line section for xfdesktop rather than buried it on the bottom of the advanced section
<slickymaster> what do you think?
<ali1234> xfdesktop has command line options?
<ali1234> all these components should have consistent command line options really.
<slickymaster> yes ali1234, just a few but it does have them
<ali1234> like, --replace, --reload, -r - pick one dammit
<slickymaster> yeah, - -reload, - -windowlist, - -arrange, - -display and several others
<ochosi> slickymaster: yeah, sounds like a good suggestion
<ochosi> hey eric_the_idiot 
<slickymaster> ochosi: I'll do it
<ochosi> great, thanks slickymaster 
<slickymaster> ochosi: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:command-line is done
<slickymaster> ochosi: can I now remove the existing reference (it's just a paragraph tbh) from the http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:advanced section?
<brainwash> ochosi: gtk3 indicators 1) bold font is being used for menues 2) sound indicator menu is somewhat incomplete 3) nm-applet is falls back to the "ugly" notification style icon 4) blacklisting needed for prevent duplicated functionality (2x date time, 2x session panel entry,..)
<brainwash> ochosi: and only Greybird offers full theme support for the indicators, right?
<brainwash> ochosi: additional information for 2), the general and per-application volume sliders are not visible
<ali1234> brainwash: orion has full support
<ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/panel-switch <- i rewrote this to support the missing .desktop files
<ali1234> it fully works now
<ali1234> just needs a UI
<ali1234> send me panel configs
<ochosi> slickymaster: yeah, feel free to remove the duplicate stuff
<ochosi> slickymaster: thanks for doing the command-line options! looks fine to me, i'll also forward the link to eric to see what he thinks
<ochosi> brainwash: i think pretty much all our themes support gtk3 indicators already (at least they should, as I added support in saucy in case they would be backported or even finished in time)
<ochosi> the fix for non-bold menu-items in greybird indeed landed after the saucy release
<ochosi> or at least after it was clear the gtk3 indicators wouldn't make it
<ochosi> so it's already in ggit
<brainwash> ochosi: numix behaves weird, you can see a grey border for a brief moment when you hover over the icons
<ochosi> ali1234: awesome! i presume you'll do a gnome2 panel-layout yourself? i can send you an eOS panel layout
<brainwash> and the other themes do no appear to be 100% compatible yet
<ochosi> ali1234: and then we can gather a list of what else we want (windows probably)
<ochosi> brainwash: yes, numix also has that fix in git
<brainwash> ochosi: oh wait, I guess I need to use the git version of the shimmer themes or?
<ochosi> brainwash: i moved that down on my priorities list as it got clearer that the gtk3 indicators wouldn't make it into saucy
<ochosi> yeah, please use the daily-PPA of shimmer
<ochosi> or git, as you prefer
<brainwash> so my current trusty setup is patchwork mess
<ochosi> also bluebird still has some issues in the saucy version, try git in general for the themes
<brainwash> we need to push all the changes into the official repo :D
<ochosi> yeah, well for testing there'll be a PPA for the indicators and there's one for the themes
<slickymaster> ochosi: np
<brainwash> ochosi: indicator session and  date&time won't be used in the default setup, right?
<brainwash> and any ideas regarding the network manager applet? currently it falls back to the normal notification icon
<brainwash> so it loads the gtk2 version of the applet
<ali1234> ochosi: my layout is pretty much "gnome 2"
<ochosi> brainwash: i would suppose those problems arise from you not having removed the gtk2-indicators...
<ochosi> (i'm not sure, but sound and networking really sounds like it)
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, i thought so :)
<ochosi> ali1234: how do we handle stuff like "fallbacks"? can we? or: should we? (e.g. if whiskermenu isn't available, use the appmenu instead)
<ochosi> that is actually the only fallback-case that comes to mind right now ^
<ali1234> use packagekit to install it
<ochosi> yeah, possible
<ochosi> hmpf, that is something we need to improve at some point in parole too...
<brainwash> ochosi: nm-applet falls back most of the times for me, it only launched properly once so far
<brainwash> maybe some weird race condition
<ochosi> so you don't have indicator-application-gtk2 installed?
<brainwash> and the sound indicator menu is still incomplete
<brainwash> I removed them
<ochosi> how is it incomplete?
<ochosi> (might be trusty-specific, in saucy these things are fine)
<brainwash> the volume sliders are missing
<ochosi> could also be that it's a problem of the packagin
<ochosi> what version are you using?
<brainwash> version of?
<brainwash> up-to-date trusty
<ochosi> xfce4-indicator-plugin
<ochosi> you need 2.2.0
<ochosi> or git-master
<ochosi> (but that's the same atm i think)
<ochosi> otherwise clowns will eat you
<brainwash> 2.2.0
<brainwash> this time nm-applet loaded the fallback icon again and the volume indicator invisible + no menu
<brainwash> on top of that the sync indicator is missing this time
<brainwash> randomness after login :D
<ochosi> fun
<brainwash> does anyone else actually test this stuff on TRUSTY? :)
<ochosi> i dunno, as long as i can't test trusty, i can't say much...
<ochosi> yeah, i think elfy will do that
<ochosi> not sure he has started already
<ochosi> (i mean not only, but the idea is to make gtk3 indicators a regular testcase i think)
<brainwash> we should focus on getting this done, it's a main change
<brainwash> in Xubuntu
<brainwash> and trusty is a lts release
<ochosi> yeah, it's quite high on our priority list anyway
<stefcc> yep, empty volume idicator here too, trusty up-to-date 
<ochosi> it does work in ubuntu though, i presume?
<ochosi> s/ubuntu/unity/
<brainwash> it did the last time I checked (2 days ago)
<ali1234> brainwash: sudo apt-get install libido3-0.1-0
<brainwash> let me check
<brainwash> installed already
<ali1234> yeah i see the problem
<ali1234> it's not in the build dependencies
<ali1234> so it is built without support
<brainwash> indicators are fine in unity
<ali1234> yeah because unity has a build dep on libido3
<brainwash> in xubuntu the sound indicator does not display the global volume slider and the play/back/forward buttons for every sound app listed in the menu
<ali1234> i know
<brainwash> it's installed
<ali1234> it doesn't matter
<ali1234> it needs to be installed when the package builds
<brainwash> and nm-applet tends to fall back to normal notification icon
<brainwash> ah
<ochosi> ali1234: so basically a packaging issue..?
<ali1234> yes
<ochosi> ok, we gotta talk to Noskcaj then when he's around
<ali1234> just ask him to add libido3-dev to build deps (or whatever it's called)
<ochosi> i presume the panel-config has to be quite "clean", no?
<ali1234> that should fix it
<ali1234> i wish we could report bugs on ppas
<ali1234> that would be super useful
<brainwash> another relog and this time nm-applet did load properly as indicator and the sync indicator is present too...
<brainwash> maybe caused by the fact, that the indicators are now being started via autostart?
<brainwash> so a strange race condition occurs
<ali1234> the indicators not loading properly at startup is a race condition for which there is a fix in -proposed
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/+bug/1239710
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1239710 in indicator-session (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime or -session missing ~10% of the time" [High,Fix committed]
<brainwash> proposed is activated
<brainwash> and I've marked both these indicators (session, datetime) as hidden
<ali1234> thats probably why you don't see them then, lol
<ali1234> m-applet is indicator-application
<ali1234> and the sync indicator won't show up unless there is something to sync
<brainwash> right, I don't want to see them
<brainwash> sync one always shows up
<brainwash> in unity and in xubuntu, if things start properly
<brainwash> sound one is not missing
<brainwash> I'll create a bug report later
<ochosi> brainwash: i'd wait until the build problem is solved and then test again before reporting the bug (just to avoid additional work)
<ochosi> or did you build the indicator-plugin yourself with libido3 support?
<brainwash> ochosi: ppa
<brainwash> ochosi: that would only solve the sound indicator menu (missing slider, sound control buttons), or?
<brainwash> but not the race condition (nm-applet, sync indicator)
<micahg> so, FYI, python 2.7 will be in main for 14.04, so no need to migrate to python3 yet
<lderan> good to know
<ochosi> brainwash: not sure, as i can't test...
<slickymaster> bbl
<ochosi> Noskcaj: for the indicator-plugin to work properly, could you please add libido3-dev to the build-deps?
<ochosi> (in your PPA)
<Noskcaj> ok
<ochosi> thanks!
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Anything else i should do? (I'm not worried about unneeded Bdeps, they aren't hurting anything)
<ochosi> Noskcaj: no i think that should fix the main issue at the moment
<slickymaster> good night all
<knome> hello
<slickymaster> knome, :)
<Noskcaj_school> bluesabre: I've got catfish 0.8.2 into debian. Can you remove your version from mentors?
<Noskcaj_school> And check the remaining bugs
<Noskcaj_school> ochosi: PPA fixed
<ochosi> Noskcaj_school: nice! thanks a bunch!
<ochosi> Noskcaj_school: i'll try the saucy version and let you know
<Noskcaj_school> :)
<Noskcaj_school> And for Laney's question earlier, the extra stuff was because i left the patch applied, i can fix when i get home if it's an issue
<ochosi> Noskcaj_school: yeah, no problem. we'll also tackle it upstream by the way
<Noskcaj_school> good
<ochosi> i talked to cavalier today, we might have to talk again to come to a solution though
<ochosi> (he wanted dm-tool instead of light-locker-command etc.)
<brainwash> whisker menu does not display the entries for about-xfce, contribute to xfce, and so on
<Noskcaj_school> brainwash: possibly because it's gottcode, not real xfce
<brainwash> but we need that stuff for xubuntu, or?
<ochosi> brainwash: about xfce shows up fine here
<brainwash> I don't think hiding them is an option
<brainwash> ochosi: which category?
<ochosi> brainwash: i did a simple search
<ochosi> so i think we can pin them to favorites
<brainwash> yeah, that is the point, these entries are hidden
<brainwash> and they should be visible all the time or be easy accessible, right?
<ochosi> possible, i think we still have to figure out how whiskermenu reads/treats desktop files
<ochosi> well, i'm not sure whether "contribute to xfce" has to be visible all the time
<brainwash> it is in the current app menu :)
<ochosi> yeah, but it's not written in stone
<ochosi> things are up for discussion
<ochosi> with a new menu, things might change a little
<ochosi> but yeah, no-one has brought up that issue so far
<ochosi> Noskcaj: nice, your PPA works
<ochosi> at least for me on saucy
<ochosi> brainwash: i got no indicator issues now with the rebuilt packages from Noskcaj's PPA
<ochosi> hm, seems desktop folks are working on a unity-control-center
<ochosi> as soon as someone can confirm that Noskcaj's PPA (https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/indicator-gtk3) works also for trusty, i'll update the wiki instructions for indicators accordingly
<Noskcaj_school> ochosi: Should i ask the whiskermenu to try and come onto irc occasionally so you can ask him about how it works or suggest features?
<ochosi> Noskcaj_school: do you know him? :)
<ochosi> i mean yeah, would be nice if he'd hang out here sometimes
<ochosi> he's also quite responsive via github tickets
<Unit193> ochosi: Did someone review the packaging, btw?
<ochosi> Unit193: review packaging of what?
<slickymaster> I'm off.
<slickymaster> cy tomorrow guys
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-04
<elfy> knome: hi - trapped a femoral nerve here - lots of pain, going to be away for a while, expiring from -release soon it seems - assuming you've no issue with redoing that neither have I
<elfy> reading e-mails from time to time is all I'm doing
<Unit193> Ouch.
<slickymaster> good morning all
<ochosi> morning
<ochosi> slickymaster: btw, eric liked the commandline stuff of xfdesktop-docs
<slickymaster> morning ochosi 
<slickymaster> glad to ear that
<ochosi> the summary doesn't seem to be complete yet though, right?
<slickymaster> yes, you're right. I'm planning on doing that later on
<ochosi> okie
<ochosi> just let me know when stuff is ready for review
<ochosi> and keep up the good work! )
<ochosi> :)
<slickymaster> ochosi: tk. I just want to start on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1256910, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1256898 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1256898 also
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1256910 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed : Mugshot" [Undecided,In progress]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1256898 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed : xfce4 session handling" [Undecided,In progress]
<ochosi> sure, sounds good
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: Thanks for getting catfish into debian!
<bluesabre> btw, any way we can get python 2 and 3 packages of pexpect-3.0 into debian?  https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pexpect
<bluesabre> its the first release with python3 support, so I don't have to do this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/catfish/+bug/1257500
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1257500 in catfish (Ubuntu) "Contains embedded copy of pexpect" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> (this also affects mugshot)
<brainwash> ochosi: sound indicator is fine now
<ochosi> brainwash: cool, good to hear
<ochosi> strange, seems with the package from Noskcaj's PPA that race-condition of the sound-indicator not showing it's icon is back :/
<ochosi> brainwash: it would be nice if you could write down the issues you found and we could discuss them at the meeting tomorrow (possibly at the wiki-page for gtk3-indicators for trusty)
<brainwash> ochosi: only the race condition is still present (invisible sound icon, missing sync icon, fallback nm-applet)
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> strange, it must be a build problem, because i didn't have this race condition with the version i compiled manually here
<ochosi> probably the libido3 dependency still doesn't work
<slickymaster> does anyone knows if there is such a tag like <key></key> that can be used in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests
<brainwash> slickymaster: bug 1163886
<ubottu> bug 1163886 in webkit (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed with signal 5 with WebKit 2.0+" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1163886
<brainwash> does comment 31/45 fix the issue for you?
<slickymaster> brainwash: give a sec and I'll test it
<slickymaster> brainwash: it will have to be more than a second :P
<brainwash> no need to hurry
<brainwash> I cannot access my test system at the moment, so I will test it later too
<slickymaster> I have to set up a new Trusty box. I'll download today's image, install it and afterwards I'll test it and tomorrow I'll report you the results
<slickymaster> brainwash: thanks for the heads-up
<slickymaster> bluesabre: ping
<slickymaster> bluesabre: following https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1256910 and because of the existence of https://bugs.launchpad.net/mugshot/+bug/1229205 I have a question for you
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1256910 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed : Mugshot" [Undecided,In progress]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1229205 in Mugshot "Help button results in Document not found" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<slickymaster> bluesabre: what is supposed to happen when the Help button is clicked? Does offline help documentation opens in a dialog window or does the default browser opens at Mugshot online documentation or is the user given a chance to choose between one of the two previous options??
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Would you mind checking the three unfixed bugs at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=no&src=catfish ?
<ali1234> Noskcaj: the indicator ppa works now
<Noskcaj> ali1234, yay, i didn't break anything
<Unit193> < ochosi> strange, seems with the package from Noskcaj's PPA that race-condition of the sound-indicator not showing it's icon is back :/
<Noskcaj> works fine for me. Was that before i added libido-dev?
<ali1234> unrelated
<Unit193> Just had to point it out. :D
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Since your libxfce4ui package wasn't much different from Mica's, I went ahead and copied it to here https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/xfce for the xfwm test (I don't like dupes, but easier than adding several repos)
<ochosi> yeah, not sure why i have that race condition here :/
<ochosi> i'll reinstall everything
<ali1234> what's the xfwm test?
<ochosi> atm it's still a bit of a mix
<ochosi> bbl
<Unit193> ali1234: Tabwin, themeable alt+tab, works best with a branch of greybird but functional otherwise as well.
<Noskcaj> this would all be a lot easier if we bribed corsac to upload the xfce 4.11 stuff to experimental
<stefcc> hey Nosk xfce 4.11 is expected when approximately  =)
<Unit193> If you're asking when Xfce 4.11 will be released, it is being somewhat slowly now, but those a development releases, 4.12 is the next actual release.
<Noskcaj> stefcc, Bits of 4.11 are out, it's not a proper release. We're waiting for debian to upload them, but they need more people to help with bug triage
<slickymaster> good night all
<Unit193> Howdy, slick. ;)
<slickymaster> hi there, Unit193
<stefcc> thanks Nosk , good night slicky ;p 
<slickymaster> Unit193, still no news on the Launchpad automatic translations front?
<slickymaster> hi stefcc. night
<Unit193> slickymaster: I have no idea.  I haven't seen any updates when pulling from bzr, but that's all I know.
<Unit193> I'm English (and Gibberish) only, so translations aren't something I know much about.
<slickymaster> Unit193, :P the reason I asked is because http://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu/pt/ is still in the same state, translation wise
<Unit193> Understandable.  I just checked: No revisions or tags to pull.
<slickymaster> we'll have to poke knome on the issue
<Unit193> Yeah, since it says pt is 100%, and I can read a little bit of that? :P
<slickymaster> D
<slickymaster> :D
<slickymaster> Noskcaj, ping
<ochosi> ali1234: sorry i haven't been able to send you my panel-config yet, how do you want it, email, pastebin?
<ochosi> also, have you included the xubuntu-default setup yet?
<ochosi> that would be one more preset from my pov
<ali1234> i don't have a system with the default setup
<ali1234> first thing i do is delete it
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> well, it's still on launchpad
<ochosi> lemme go and fetch it
<Unit193> It's normally also in /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/
<ochosi> yeah, that's where i was looking, but my connection is so lame
<ochosi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/raring/files/head:/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/panel/
<ochosi> ali1234: this is raring ^ but it's still at the same rev as trunk
<ochosi> so it's fine
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> i'm going to fix the damn indicator-sound-gtk2
<ali1234> then i'm going to get it SRU'd
<ali1234> then we're never going to ship that piece of *&^*^% ever again, right?
<ali1234> i bet the fix is a 1 liner as well
<ochosi> we should somehow set up bug-bounty stuff
<ochosi> or at least that's what i wonder about sometimes
<ali1234> did someone test the raring versions?
<ochosi> of what? gtk3-indicators?
<ochosi> or of the indicator-gtk2 packages
<ali1234> indicator-sound and indicator-sound-gtk2
<ochosi> if you mean the latter i didn't
<ali1234> the reason it doesn't work is because those two packages are no longer compatible
<ochosi> yeah, so they didn't drag along the gtk2 version with some changes
<ochosi> that's as far as i remember when we last discussed this
<ali1234> but i know how lazy those guys are... the change is probably tiny
<ochosi> :>
<ochosi> i thought the changes were big, but tbh i never checked
<ochosi> wow, the config.txt file panel-switch creates is quite compressed :)
<ali1234> it is if you ask for bz2
<ochosi> righty
<ochosi> that worked almost perfectly
<ochosi> only the whiskermenu config was lost for some reason
<ali1234> then it does not store it's configuration inside the panel config
<ochosi> hmm, why not...
<ochosi> gottcode: hey there! :)
<ali1234> i dunno... maybe because it sucks :)
<gottcode> ochosi: yo :)
<ochosi> gottcode: i was wondering why whiskermenu doesn't store it's config in the xfce4-panel config? (and ignore that rude statement there ;))
<ali1234> all plugins are supposed to store config inside the panel /plugins/ stuff, so that you can have more than one with different configs
<gottcode> it uses the rc file path given to it by the panel
<ochosi> gottcode: ali1234 wrote a nice python tool to backup panel-config and restore it (and load presets), so i noticed that whiskermenu uses an rc file
<ali1234> the tricky thing though, is that if the config is stored outside the panel config, then it shouldn't be lost
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> true that
<ali1234> because it wouldn't have been touched
<ali1234> pastebin your config.txt please
<ochosi> one sec
<ali1234> did you try to restore on a different computer?
<ochosi> http://dpaste.com/1493056/
<ochosi> i only have this one here...
<ochosi> i temporarily moved abroad, so i'm kinda low on resources atm
<ali1234> ok so that stored nothing except that plugin-9 is a whiskermenu
<ochosi> yup
<ali1234> then it doesn't make any sense why the config would disappear
<ochosi> gottcode: just out of curiosity, why are the categories on the right in whiskermenu? (coming from the xfce appmenu i'd have expected them on the left)
<gottcode> ochosi: the intent was to make it easier to get to the favorites
<ochosi> ali1234: hm, i have several whiskermenu rc files here, i'll clean that up (although there is a -9)
<Unit193> ali1234: I've been using older versions, yes.  Raring and or precise.
<ali1234> Unit193: any idea what the upstream source for -gtk2 is?
<ochosi> gottcode: you mean the apps are closer to the mouse-cursor when you open the menu?
<ali1234> ochosi: it should still be plugin-9 before and after, so the config should not get lost
<gottcode> ochosi: yup
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, but probably it loads the first whiskermenu.rc file it can find, and not whiskermenu-9.rc
<ochosi> gottcode: very clever!
<ali1234> that makes no sense... but if true, it's a bug
<ochosi> ali1234: well for now i don't have a good explanation, but i'll test with cleaning up the rc files and report back
<gottcode> ochosi: thanks :)
<ochosi> gottcode: i really like whiskermenu i have to say, also the fact that it opens so speedily and everything, great work on that!
<Unit193> ali1234: Not really, the package source was s/-gtk2//
<gottcode> ochosi: :)
<ali1234> Unit193: not on saucy
<ali1234> this makes no sense
<ochosi> gottcode: fwiw, we're having a community meeting tomorrow and it's possible that whiskermenu will come up (i proposed to replace the traditional menu with it), so if you have time to hang out here that'd be great
<ali1234> i don't understand how one is derived from the other
<Unit193> http://paste.debian.net/69414/
<gottcode> ochosi: cool, what time?
<ochosi> gottcode: lemme check, iirc it was 20UTC but i'm not sure now...
<ochosi> 19 UTC
<ali1234> Unit193: that is indicator-messages
<Unit193> Package: indicator-messages-gtk2
<gottcode> ochosi: I should be around for that
<ochosi> gottcode: sweet!
<ochosi> brb
<ali1234> Unit193: yes, indicator-messages-gtk2
<Unit193> Exactly, that's what I pasted.  You can see at the top Package: and Source:
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> indicator-MESSAGES-gtk2 != indicator-sound-gtk2
<ali1234> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/indicator-sound-gtk2
<ali1234> source package is indicator-sound-gtk2
<ali1234> in saucy
<Unit193> http://paste.debian.net/69415/ right.
<Unit193> (That's all the information I have on that.)
<ochosi> gottcode: btw, do you have more plans with whiskermenu? to me it seems pretty complete
<gottcode> ochosi: not a whole lot more, just what is in the github issues really
<ochosi> gottcode: ah, lemme check those then..
<ochosi> gottcode: oops, issue #44 sounds like what i just asked... :p
<gottcode> ochosi: no worries, I've gotten asked that a couple of times in email already today :)
<ochosi> hehe, even a bit more sorry then
<Unit193> Um, why are indicator-sound's deps silly?
<gottcode> ochosi: it's like bugzilla voting, lets me know it is a popular request :p
<ochosi> gottcode: i just remembered i submitted the resize-grip issue
<ochosi> gottcode: i'm starting to wonder whether the visual representation is really needed
<ochosi> you mentioned that one reason you draw the rectangle yourself is that the theme might not show resize-grips
<gottcode> ochosi: just have a blank corner that can be dragged, like kickoff?
<ochosi> how should the user then know what that triangle means?
<gottcode> that's true
<ochosi> i mean the triangle somewhat says "touch me"
<ochosi> on the other hand, i think it's up to themers to support resize-grips
<gottcode> but if your theme doesn't draw a triangle, or draws nothing at all...
<ochosi> unless you intentionally disable it, it should be drawn in every engine i know
<ochosi> yeah, i'd consider that a bug in the theme though
<ochosi> i mean i see your point of better being safe, but in a way your taking responsibility for what isn't 100% yours
<gottcode> true
<gottcode> and I have seen users who think the menu can't be resized even with the triangle there
<ali1234> i patched gtk to never draw resize grips
<ochosi> so if a theme just replaces the resize-grip intentionally with a 1px blank pixmap, the functionality of the widget is also borked, right?
<ali1234> even if the theme requests them
<ali1234> they are completely dumb
<ali1234> and they mess up many programs
<ochosi> ali1234: sounds like the opposity of the patch ubuntu did back in the day (after which we had resize grips in xfdesktop etc etc :D
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> that's why i did it
<ochosi> ali1234: i know now why the whiskermenu-config was lost
<ochosi> to try whether your app really restores all my panels, i removed one of them (containing whiskermenu)
<ochosi> doing that, the rc-file was deleted by the panel
<ochosi> so while your app restored the panel-config just fine, the rc-file was obviously lost
<ochosi> so your app works fine
<ochosi> you might wanna fix your config though: http://dpaste.com/1493097/
<ali1234> no that's because it doesn't make the directories
<ali1234> i'llfix it
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> right, i thought the desktop-file wasn't in the tarball or something (hadn't checked)
<ochosi> btw, a fallback-option for when loading fails would be nice
<ochosi> or, it would be nice if it could be "tested" whether loading would fail
<ochosi> but being able to save and restore panel configs is really convenient, great work on that1
<ochosi> s/1/!/
<bluesabre> slickymaster: Clicking the Help button should open up yelp/ghelp:mugshot
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: re those bugs...
<slickymaster> bluesabre, hmm... so it will use the browser to open that page, right?
<bluesabre> slickymaster: it should open yelp
<slickymaster> bluesabre, ok, thanks
<bluesabre> but thats one of the things I'm going to discard for the next release, yelp is like a bad word around here sometimes :)
<ochosi> hehe
<slickymaster> yeah, but i'll have to include it in the testcase or do you planning on having the next release available for trusty?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: I'll look into each of them, probably good info from each
<bluesabre> slickymaster: I've gotta work on all of that, some core changes needed to get it into debian
<bluesabre> and its gotta hit debian before we'll accept it in xubuntu
<slickymaster> bluesabre, I'll include the reference to yelp, then
<bluesabre> k
<slickymaster> it's something that can be changed any time we want to, anyhow 
<slickymaster> bluesabre, tks
<ochosi> gottcode: re: issue #43, that's perfect! why shouldn't the user change those icons via the icon-theme?
<gottcode> ochosi: the icons are the standard icons, so if they want to use the settings action to perform a shutdown they would need to change it globally
<ochosi> yeah, and to be frank, using a settings icon for shutdown is weird :p
<gottcode> plus the tooltip text would say "All Settings" :p
<ochosi> the standard icons are really fine imo, theoretically ppl can even just override those icons if they know how to do icon-themes (override them via a custom icon-theme in ~/.icons)
<ochosi> hehe
<gottcode> true
<ala1234> should i use ppa:gottcode/gcppa?
<slickymaster> I'm off. cy tomorrow guys
<ochosi> gottcode: hmm, why is the file-open icon in your screenshot fuzzy...
<ochosi> just checked and the icon should be there in elementary-xfce in 22px
<gottcode> ochosi: probably because I didn't force the icon to be any specific size
<ochosi> hmm, it should work either way because the icon is png
<ochosi> or are you using the icons from git (hence in svg)?
<gottcode> from git
<ochosi> aah
<ochosi> ok :)
<ochosi> in that case fuzzy is ok
<ochosi> you can use the daily PPA if you want
<ochosi> then you get the png theme
<ochosi> which is faster and sharper
<gottcode> tricky to do, I'm an Archer :p
<ochosi> hehe, i see
<ochosi> in that case you'd have to run the pngscript locally
<gottcode> could suggest that as an update to the AUR packaging
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> fwiw, did you know you can alt-right-click-drag whiskermenu after opening it to resize it?
<ochosi> but only before clicking something
<ochosi> seems xfwm4 only gives up control over it after it gets focus
<gottcode> ha! that's pretty funny
<gottcode> I can still drag it even after interacting with it
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, that ppa is fine (ppa:gottcode/gcppa)
<ali1234> ochosi: i pushed a fix for the directory creation
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-05
<ochosi> gottcode: for me it depends on what widget has focus, if the entry has focus, i cant resize
<gottcode> ochosi: interesting, for me I can resize even with the entry having focus
<ochosi> ali1234: works now!
<ali1234> natch :)
<ochosi> ali1234: is that really how it's supposed to look? http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-12052013-010458am.php
<ochosi> (that separator in the top right is expanded)
<ali1234> yeah pretty much
<ali1234> i dunno about that...
<ochosi> the rest seems fine i guess
<ochosi> i gotta say i already love that app
<ochosi> nice work on that
<ali1234> yeah that's wrong
<ali1234> let me check the stuff
<ochosi> gottcode: hmm, i'm using the ochosi/tabwin branch (although that shouldn't really make a difference for this case)
<ali1234> ochosi: can you check in the settings editor what is going on there?
<ochosi> sure, one sec
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> this is kind of weird
<ali1234> it's actually wrong in my settings
<ochosi> but it looks ok?
<ali1234> that plugin does not have the "expand" (bool) key at all
<ali1234> for me it's not expanded, for you it is
<ali1234> i guess if the key is missing it does something random
<ali1234> this is probably a bug in xfce4-panel, not setting a default
<ochosi> how long do you have your panel?
<ali1234> 1920 pixels
<ochosi> and your config
<ochosi> oh wait, no, not sure that was changed in 4.10
<ochosi> only the windowlist got the expand dropped i think...
<ochosi> hm, no, i think it did change in 4.10
<ochosi> before expand was one of the options in the dropdown, not a bool
<ali1234> well this config is not old
<ali1234> however when i made it i might have reused some of the items already present from the default config
<ochosi> hm
<ali1234> which would explain it probably
<ochosi> default config of xubuntu or of xfce upstream?
<ali1234> yeah the leftmost and rightmost ones are both like this
<ali1234> and xubuntu default config
<ochosi> hm, strange
<ali1234> anyway, the trick here is to just make sure that we don't ship buggy configs :)
<ochosi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/raring/view/head:/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/panel/default.xml#L88
<ochosi> crap
<ochosi> that's it ^
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> i just pushed a fixed config
<ali1234> just a matter of toggling expand on each one and saving it again
<ochosi> yup
<ali1234> i wonder why it defaults to expanded for you but not for me
<Noskcaj-school> bluesabre: The pexpect update request is at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=729518
<ubottu> Debian bug 729518 in python-pexpect "python-pexpect: Packaging for new upstream version" [Normal,Open]
<bluesabre> fantastic, thanks Noskcaj-school!
<Noskcaj-school> I should get to that once i've adopted a few of gottcode's packages that are orphaned in debian
<bluesabre> awesome
<ochosi> ali1234: no idea really
<gottcode> I'm off, talk to you all later
<ochosi> seeya gottcode 
<ali1234> and fixed
<ali1234> so... how do you think about this? : i've patch indicator-sound-gtk2 to load it's own dbus service instead of the gtk3 one, by changing the dbus name
<ali1234> this means that stuff like music players won't appear in the menu
<ali1234> however you will be able to change the volume
<holstein> you think it'll be a 50/50 split?
<Unit193> dpkg-divert it. :P
<ali1234> you lost me
<Unit193> Basically, it moves that file, tells dpkg that indicator-sound's file is at $newlocation, and installs it's own file there.
<ali1234> yeah, that's no good
<ali1234> that will break unity
<Unit193> Only when -gtk2 is installed.
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> another possibility is detect when the gtk3 service is running, and then kill it
<ali1234> actually
<ali1234> if we start up the other service before the panel and indicators load it should work
<Unit193> 1. Somewhat kidding, hence the ":P"  2. In theory, -gtk2 can't be used in unity.
<ali1234> i think that's actually a better idea
<ali1234> i wonder how to achieve it though
<ali1234> system("/usr/share/blah/indicator-sound-service") ... maybe
<Unit193> I went back to precise and raring packages, personally.
<Unit193> (Updated to gtk3 today, reverted.)
<ali1234> yeah the thing is that people don't know how to do that
<ali1234> and i'm tired of listening to the whining
<Unit193> Oh, it's not a fix by any means!  Yeah, if we can't backport, would be best for sure.
 * Unit193 shuts up, then. :)
<ali1234> hmm... best fix
<ali1234> make the gtk2 indicator export both interfaces
<ali1234> though i doubt it will work with players anyway
<ali1234> right, fix is in mah ppa
<ali1234> let's see if it builds
<ali1234> https://launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/+archive/indicator-sound-gtk2
<ali1234> Unit193: so does eg rythmbox appear in the sound menu with the raring package installed on saucy?
<Unit193> ali1234: VLC does, yes.
<Unit193> 0.8.5.0-0ubuntu2.1
<Unit193> So, that'd be precise.
<ali1234> huh... wow
<ali1234> it works even with my patched version
<ali1234> it must not care what the dbus name is
<ali1234> and just look for the interface name
<ali1234> incredible
<Unit193> Nice.
<ali1234> unbelievable
<ali1234> patch is 4 lines btw
<Unit193> Hah, nice...  So, think the standard is interface name?
<ali1234> i guess it must be
<ali1234> com.canonical.indicator.sound isn't on the bus, com.canonical.indicator.sound-gtk2 is, and gmusicbrowser is in the sound menu
<ali1234> so i think this might actually be SRU worthy
<ali1234> it shouldn't break anything, and it doesn't even have reduced functionality
<skellat> ali1234: Do you have good news for LP Bug 1208204 before I write the reply discussing why there is no infrastructure for a 13.10.1 and that if people think the fix is so simple they are encouraged to submit patches & debdiffs?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208204
<ali1234> skellat: sure, it's fixed
<ali1234> ppa will build in 20 minutes or so hopefully
<skellat> Excellent
<skellat> No need to wander down the BOFH road then with the commentators on that bug then
<ali1234> i don't even understand why it works
<ali1234> but it works
<skellat> ali1234: If it successfully builds, would you be willing to please put this on the Thursday meeting agenda for discussion?
<ali1234> i don't know how to do that
<ali1234> also that's today
 * skellat is on the other side of the Atlantic from ali1234 where it is still late Wednesday night
<ali1234> so... what do you want to discuss about it?
<ali1234> i mean it's a 4 line patch... it's nothing to do with xubuntu really
<ali1234> it's the indicator that is broken
<ali1234> getting it SRU'd will be a matter of convincing ubuntu-desktop it's a good idea (which shouldn't be too hard)
<skellat> Just so that we go through the motions for the folks complaining and Look Like We're Taking Official Notice & Action
<ali1234> ok, sure
<skellat> This should be the link for editing the agenda page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings?action=edit&editor=text
<skellat> Your LP login credentials would be needed
<ali1234> done
<skellat> Merci beaucoup
<skellat> Thank you 
<skellat> ali1234: I look forward to a wonderful discussion that will be mostly for the record so we can throw a link in the comments to that bug so people can read it and hopefully stop whining as their plea has been attended to
<skellat> :-)
<astraljava> Hey guys, anyone on trusty with their daily machine yet? Worth upgrading? I
<astraljava> sorry, I was mainly thinking about the indicator plugin, getting the volume applet working etc.
<Noskcaj> astraljava, I'm on it, no major changes yet. You could always just enable my gtk3 indicator ppa
<astraljava> Noskcaj: Thanks, that sounds like a plan, actually.
<Unit193> astraljava: Or if you read up a bit, there's a 4 line patch to get the gtk2 ones.
<astraljava> Unit193: Yeah, I just noticed. :) Oh well, got it up already. It's missing an icon, but I don't really care cause I know it's there. Thanks, Noskcaj!
<astraljava> Interesting, that last update seems to have made the system a tad snappier. Wonder why.
<Unit193> What got pulled in?
<astraljava> I can't remember anymore, updates had been sitting in there for a few days until I rebooted just now.
<astraljava> libido3-0.1-0, avahi-daemon and friends, linux-image-3.11.0-14-generic et al.
<ali1234> micahg: i have a trivial fix for the gtk2 indicator
<ali1234> it's a debdiff at the moment
<ali1234> thing is, i can't figure out who to send a MR to
<Unit193> ali1234: Can't attach to the bug report and subscribe sponsors?
<ali1234> i could, but would that cause the bug to get fixed "upstream"?
<ali1234> does upstream even exist?
<ali1234> nobody seems to know...
<ali1234> the ppa build btw: https://launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/+archive/indicator-sound-gtk2
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/indicators-gtk2 only upstream I know of for gtk2, but I've not tracked it much.
<astraljava> Yeah my understanding is nobody maintains the gtk2 versions anymore, but I could be wrong. It's been a while since I've heard anything about that stuff.
<Unit193> astraljava: Not far off at least.
<ali1234> somebody must maintain it - it got uploaded to saucy
<Unit193> Just copied on up (and fixed control file)
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/indicator-sound-gtk2/+changelog
<ali1234> mr_pouit: you know anything 'bout this?
<slickymaster> good morning all
<slickymaster> knome: ping
<ali1234> knome: i fixed the gtk2 indicator you know...
<ali1234> i got tired of all the complaining
<ali1234> in the end it took about 2 hours
<ochosi> ali1234: you definitely should've started working on xubuntu 6 months ago already...
<ali1234> i started working on it the same day i started using it :)
<ali1234> you're right though. i should have known the writing was on the wall for gnome-panel
<ali1234> a year ago or more
<ochosi> yeah, well unless you're a fan of the mate/cinnamon idea
<ali1234> mate is too big a project
<ochosi> how do you want me to send you the panel-config btw?
<ochosi> yeah, it's huge...
<ali1234> panelconfig.py save ochosi.tar.bz2
<ali1234> then send me the bz2 any way you want
<ochosi> and much of it seems to be s/gnome/mate/
<ochosi> yeah, i've already created the bz2
<ali1234> yeah, i really don't like when people go crazy on the source with sed... it just makes problems
<ochosi> i was wondering how you want it (email, pastebin)
<ali1234> the consort project had a better idea... just fork the stuff that you actually want to change
<ali1234> sadly that was abandoned
<ali1234> email is fine
<ochosi> ok, sent
<ali1234> heh, yeah, description metadata should be added
<ali1234> i guess description.txt and maybe screenshot.png inside the bz2
<ochosi> sounds good!
<ochosi> could you please try my panel layout?
<ali1234> also it needs to scan /usr/share/panelconfigs or something
<ochosi> cause it uses the relative-width feature of the panel
<ochosi> and i wonder whether that works on other resolutions
<ochosi> (mine is 1280x800)
<ali1234> it looks kind of messed up
<ochosi> :/
<ali1234> maybe it's supposed to be like that
<ochosi> i was afraid that absolute coordinates are saved
<ali1234> nah... it should never use absolute
<ali1234> just one panel right?
<ochosi> | Panel1 (40% width) | Panel2 (20%) | Panel3 (40%) |
<ali1234> oh, i see
<ochosi> Panel1=whiskermenu
<ochosi> Panel2=clock
<ochosi> Panel3=indicators, tray
<ali1234> panel 3 isn't big enough for all my indicators
<ali1234> how do you switch between windows??
<ochosi> i use plank
<ochosi> although not for window-switching
<ochosi> i only use tabwin for that
<ochosi> actually plank is there for other ppl who use my computer, i use kb-shortcuts mostly
<ali1234> can we patch screenshot tool to use an image host that doesn't require a password, like imagebin or imgur?
<ochosi> yeah, we should...
<ochosi> screenshooter is really a nice tool, but the zimagez-aspect sucks 
<ali1234> or maybe even U1
<ochosi> true
<ochosi> (or dropbox)
<brainwash> u1 does not require a password?
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=280675
<ali1234> brainwash: not every single time, no
<brainwash> so you mean the login process?
<ochosi> ali1234: that looks about right, was it like that when you loaded it?
<ali1234> yeah
<ochosi> ok, cool
<ochosi> or wait, who were you answering now? :)
<ali1234> you :)
<ochosi> ok, good
<ali1234> brainwash: dunno what you mean...
<ali1234> with U1 you login once and it's remembered forever... you can share files on the dbus api
<ochosi> yeah, i had to set my password for zimagez to something very unsafe in order to make the submitting-process less annoying..
<brainwash> I mean you need an account for u1, but it's optional for zimagez, or?
<ali1234> brainwash: it's not optional with the screenshot tool, it demands you enter your password every single time you want to share an image
<knome> slickymaster, pong
<ochosi> ali1234: how hard would you say is it to add more sources to the screenshooter?
<ochosi> morning knome 
<ali1234> no idea
<brainwash> save the password?
<ali1234> brainwash: thing is though, i don't want yet another account
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, securely...? distribution-independent? ...
<knome> good day ochosi 
<slickymaster> morning knome
<slickymaster> knome: can you please merge https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/ubuntu-manual-tests/+merge/197801 and update the tracker?
<brainwash> plain text only visible to the user? like the mail watcher plugin?
<slickymaster> knome: it's a simple fix, just a mere grammar correction
<knome> slickymaster, i'll do that.
<ochosi> brainwash: hmpf, yeah, i think that was the reason there is no option to save the password...
<slickymaster> knome: another thing, I've already made https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1256910 and I'll propose a merge tonight, but as elfy is recovering can you review it?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1256910 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed : Mugshot" [Undecided,In progress]
<brainwash> ochosi: or keep in the memory for like 10min (timestamp)?
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, i think at the moment the problem is that the screenshooter isn't under development
<knome> slickymaster, review what? the merge when you've done it?
<brainwash> ochosi: but ali1234 is our secret weapon :)
<knome> slickymaster, 197801 merged and pushed to tracker
<slickymaster> knome: yeah, I will propose it to merge tonight. I'm not able to do it at work because I'm behind a proxy
<ochosi> brainwash: indeed ;)
<knome> slickymaster, sure, but was that what you were asking?
<slickymaster> knome: yes
<knome> mm, sure, i can do it
<knome> though ochosi or bluesabre would be better persons to review if it's correct
<slickymaster> I'll ping then
<knome> i can then merge and push
<slickymaster> knome: okie dokie. thanks
<knome> we have a meeting today at 19UTC
<bluesabre> knome: going to miss said meeting
 * ochosi probably too...
<brainwash> ali1234: will the changes for the smooth greeter/desktop transition get merged automatically at some point or do the patches need to be backported before trusty gets released?
<ochosi> it's dinner-time here and we're invited, so...
<ali1234> brainwash: they should get merged in 4.11
<ali1234> only xfwm4 is still waiting for stuff to get merged
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: see what slickymaster just asked though, maybe you can help with that
<brainwash> ali1234: ok
<ochosi> yeah, not sure we get xfwm4 4.11 in trusty
<ali1234> owever it will need a distropatch to enable MONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP
<ochosi> the greeter and the desktop will be fixed more or less automatically
<bluesabre> slickymaster: let me know when you do your merge request :)
<brainwash> so xfwm will not be upgraded to 4.11 for trusty?
<slickymaster> bluesabre: of course, no problem
<ochosi> brainwash: i'm not sure, probably not (i would be in favor though)
<ochosi> don't think we've really discussed xfwm4 for trusty
<bluesabre> are there any xfwm4 branches that add touch events to the wm?
<knome> no, i don't think we did
<knome> is olivier the only one who can/will/won't approve to xfwm?
<ali1234> no, nick seems to be running the show now
<ochosi> olivier hasn't been around for ages
<ochosi> nick is basically the xfce project leader and reviews/merges code for all core-components
<ochosi> he's also the one who has contributed to all parts of xfce (well, like guys before him did, e.g. JPohlmann)
<knome> ochosi, ok, so basically we could get patches in via nick
<bluesabre> olivier ocassionally appears on the MLs to shoot down xfwm4 suggestions
<bluesabre> :)
<ali1234> yeah, he's plain wrong on that one btw
<knome> bluesabre, ssshhhh, this is a logged channel :P
<ochosi> "occasionally" = once
<ochosi> once a year
<bluesabre> #undo
<ochosi> knome: yes
<knome> ok, that's good enough for me
<knome> what do we want in?
<knome> is it relesae-critical?
<knome> or is it just something that would be "nice to have"
<ochosi> well for the greeter-transition, there is something we wanna cherry-pick
<knome> okay
<ali1234> well my stuff is all features, cosmetic bugfixes, and memory leak fixes
<ochosi> feature-wise, there's zoom for xfwm4
<ochosi> and the new tabwin which introduces mouse-click events and much nicer theming support
<knome> i don't know if the features are something we want to argue about (unless we want them really badly), but bugfixes and memory leak fixes should get in
<ochosi> (mouse-click events are nice for touchscreens)
<bluesabre> +1
<knome> i guess
<knome> that's not the primary target group for xubuntu though
<ali1234> zooming is a killer feature
<ochosi> yeah, i wasn't explaining that specifically for xubuntu
<ochosi> ali1234: +1
<ali1234> so many people told me they miss compiz zooming
<ochosi> knome: i was just explaining it in general cause ppl might wonder why mouse is important in alt-tab
<ali1234> no other WM except kwin has zooming at all... and in kwin it sucks
<ochosi> also, the patch for zoom is really small...
<knome> features are a slippery slope to get in
<knome> fixes we should push nick to merge
<ochosi> well the question with the fixes is whether they get backported to 4.10
<ochosi> if not, we'd need xfwm4 4.11
<knome> yep
<ali1234> he was positive about accepting all my stuff
<ali1234> it's just a matter of getting around to it
<ochosi> yeah, i'm sure he'll merge it
<knome> if he was... then let's do it :P
<ochosi> he just told me so a few days ago
<ali1234> ochosi: can i commit your panel config on the repo?
<knome> ok, i'm off
<knome> see you later
<ochosi> ali1234: sure, thanks!
<ali1234> ok, pushed
<slickymaster> brainwash: did you get to test https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/1163886/comments/45
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1163886 in webkit (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed with signal 5 with WebKit 2.0+" [Critical,Confirmed]
<ali1234> ochosi: just out of interest... why did you use 3 panels like that?
<slickymaster> I haven't been able to test it just yet. Planning on doing it this afternoon
<ochosi> ali1234: otherwise it's impossible to keep the clock absolutely centered
<ali1234> ah, i see, yes
<ochosi> it's a bit silly, i agree
<ochosi> bluesabre and me were thinking about creating a container-plugin for something like that at some point
<ali1234> gnome-panel 3 has something a bit like that
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i don't know how they do it though
<ali1234> it uses relative positioning, but each panel has three independent areas
<ochosi> i mean the thing is that xfce panel is extremely flexible
<ochosi> ah nice
<ochosi> that's a cool idea
<ali1234> so it works like your 3 panel setup, except it's all one panel
<ochosi> doesn't even sound like it's extremely hard to code
<ali1234> probably not at all
<ochosi> btw, i always wanted window-titles in xfwm4 to have an option for absolute centering...
<ochosi> very trivial patch, but that one was shot down by olivier :p
<ali1234> biggest challenge would be adding the required GUI changes
<ali1234> absolute centering?
<ali1234> nope, do not want :)
<ochosi> well currently it depends on the amount of buttons in the decoration whether the title is really centered
<ochosi> that's kinda odd, no?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> http://ubuntuone.com/4YlgAZNtOhGhD5gsq4pBWg
<ali1234> this window would look funny if the title was absolute centered
<ali1234> in my opinion anyway...
<ochosi> yeah, i know, small windows are very the absolute centering craps out
<ochosi> but somehow other wms also manage it
<ochosi> i guess they set a treshold width
<ali1234> yes, but on large windows you can't really tell it's not absolute centered anyway
<ali1234> i guess you can if you have a clock in the center top panel :)
<ochosi> exactly ;)
<ochosi> also
<ochosi> i thought xfwm4 had a center-snap feature (doesn't seem to work now for some reason)
<ali1234> what is center snap?
<ochosi> taking a window and dragging it to the center-top of the screen it'll snap on horizontally being centered
<ochosi> at least i do remember this feature, maybe i'm just misremembering things
<ali1234> like when you drag a window to the top and it maximizes?
<bluesabre> never saw that feature
<ali1234> hmm... i might implement windows 7 side snapping :)
<ochosi> if you mean tiling, that's already there
<ali1234> trouble is it conflicts with workspace switching
<bluesabre> ali1234: the side snapping is already there
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> true
<ochosi> :)
<ali1234> doesn't work for me
<ochosi> which is why you have to deactivate workspace-switching for it to work ;)
<bluesabre> you can also attach it to keyboard shortcuts in the window manager settings
<ochosi> (it doesn't look as cool as in compiz though)
<bluesabre> you can disable multiple workspaces or disable workspace wrapping
<bluesabre> (you can always right-click the titlebar and move it or drag with the workspaces panel plugin
<ali1234> cool... bound it to the keyboard
<ochosi> well one option would be to add a modifier for one of those actions
<ochosi> but alt is already taken
<ali1234> alt+numpad for each side
<ali1234> needs top-left etc so i can have 4 windows :)
<ochosi> true
<bluesabre> yeah, thats the one thing I'd like to steal from kde
<ochosi> hard to do for the mouse though
<ochosi> unless you just bind it to a "corner-area"
<ali1234> bluesabre: or unity :P
<bluesabre> ah :)
<ochosi> how does unity/compiz do it? alt-drag window to a corner?
<ali1234> everything is configrable
<ali1234> by default you just drag it to the edge
<ali1234> you have to push against the edge to change workspace
<brainwash> slickymaster: works, commenting the mentioned line disables the banner in the software-center
<slickymaster> brainwash: I'll confirm you that, this afternoon :)
<brainwash> slickymaster: so it looks like some packages have been upgraded in trusty (until now those new package versions were only offered by the gnome3 ppa)
<brainwash> ochosi, ali1234: most of the time indicator-application-service fails to start -> "no watchers, service timing out."
<slickymaster> brainwash: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2013-December/004358.html
<slickymaster> got run for now
<slickymaster> bbÃ§
<slickymaster> bbl
<slickymaster> knome, bluesabre, https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/mugshot/+merge/197873 at your disposal for review
<ali1234> brainwash: meaning?
<ali1234> you're not supposed to run the services manually - they use dbus activation
<ali1234> that means they get started when something needs them. if nothing starts using the dbus interface within some time limit, you see that message
<brainwash> ali1234: the question is, why does it fail?
<ali1234> i don't know. where do you see that message, and when?
<brainwash> x session log
<brainwash> when the indicator plugin gets loaded I assume
<ali1234> ok. and ... do you have any actual problems with appindicators?
<ali1234> it could simply be that you don't have any appindicators so it is shutting down naturally
<brainwash> yes, nm-applet reverts to notification icon and sync indicator does not show up at all
<ali1234> sync indicator is not an appindicator
<brainwash> so both, app and sync, sometime to not start
<brainwash> sometimes do not start
<ali1234> ok, so you found the reason why they don't start...
<ali1234> this is a known bug, however
<brainwash> it is?
<ali1234> yes
<brainwash> xfce specific?
<ali1234> no
<brainwash> works all the time in unity
<ali1234> and what happens if you restart the panel?
<ali1234> what is probably happening is that all the indicators start at once and spam out dbus, and so they don't connect fast enough
<ali1234> we can work around this by putting in a small delay in the indicator-plugin
<brainwash> restarting the panel did not help once so far
<brainwash> ok, worth testing I guess
<ali1234> put a sleep(5) in indicator_load_indicator() in indicator.c
<ali1234> actally don't do that
<ali1234> put usleep(5000);
<elfy> Unit193: welcome to that team - you do know I'll pester you I hope :)
<slickymaster> hi elfy
<slickymaster> how have you been recovering?
<elfy> hi slickymaster 
<elfy> slowly
<slickymaster> hopefuly everything will go well
<elfy> :)
<slickymaster> don't know if you saw it https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/mugshot/+merge/197873 is already ready for review
<elfy> I noticed it - but that's all 
<elfy> thanks though :)
<slickymaster> np
<slickymaster> ;)
<elfy> slickymaster: do you know if nosckaj's PPA is ready at all?
<slickymaster> I think so. He added pexpect to it and as far as I know things didn't got borken
<slickymaster> broken ^^
<elfy> ok - I'll try and get to look at that tomorrow hopefully
<slickymaster> will you be able to attend today's meeting?
<elfy> hoping to 
<slickymaster> it's probably better if you rest now, even though I would guess that you are sick of so much resting :)
<elfy> well - I've managed about 4 or 5 hours sleep in the last few days
<slickymaster> well, I won't bother you, so you can rest a bit
<slickymaster> elfy: do you think https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1255835 should be included in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=%22InstallationMedia:+Xubuntu%22&orderby=-importance&field.status:list=NEW&field.status:list=CONFIRMED&field.status:list=TRIAGED&field.status:list=INPROGRESS&field.status:list=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status:list=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status:list=INCOMPL
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1255835 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Incomplete Lanugage Support dialog on first bootup" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> link fails 
<elfy> slickymaster: ^^
<slickymaster> elfy: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1255835 should be included in http://bit.ly/18bwkqM
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1255835 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Incomplete Lanugage Support dialog on first bootup" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> I guess so - needs tag is all
<elfy> or not 
<elfy> not sure why it's not there and I'm not really in the fram of mind to work it out :)
<slickymaster> elfy: I'n added the xubuntu tag, so a new query will probably retrieve it also
<Orioa> does anyone know if they are working on the login screen bug for the newest version of xubuntu so that you are able to change the background
<ochosi> Orioa: what exactly do you mean?
<Orioa> i mean there is a known issue with xubuntu with being able to change the login background
<Orioa> in the newest version
<holstein> you mean, with the login manager?
<Orioa> yeah
<holstein> i would check upstream with the project then
<Orioa> i have tried ubuntu tweak replacing the link to wallpaper in the gtk.greeter. conf file even try to change the file format nothing works
<ochosi> Orioa: the xubuntu greeter should pick up the wallpaper set by xfce's desktop manager
<ochosi> (i.e. xfdesktop)
<ochosi> the wallpaper in /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf is the fallback
<Orioa> were would i find that file if you don't mind
<ochosi> what file?
<slickymaster> elfy: sorry for that, it seems that we crushed ourselves. I've already 'retagged' with xubuntu
<Orioa> (i.e. xfdesktop
<holstein> Orioa: /etc/lightdm/litghdm-gtk-greeter.conf is the location
<Orioa> ive try changing it there but it does not work
<holstein> Orioa: how did you change it? maybe its an issue with your code
<ochosi> Orioa: i'm not sure why you wanna know the location of the config-file, because you can use desktop-settings to change the wallpaper... (~/.config/xfce/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-desktop.xml)
<Orioa> were it says desktop background i changed the link there
<ochosi> holstein: did you not read my comment from before?
<Orioa> not on the desktop but the log in window
<ochosi> Orioa: those two should be identical
<ochosi> as soon as you set a wallpaper in xubuntu, it's also used in the greeter for your user
<holstein> ochosi: which comment, specifically
<Orioa> its not working that way sorry
<ochosi> holstein: the coment that that file is only the fallback
<Orioa> for one i would like to have a different wallaper for them and the only wallaper on login screen is black
<holstein> ochosi: i was just responding to "where is the file"
<holstein> i'll keep quiet
<Orioa> so if that file is only the fallback what one do i change
<ochosi> Orioa: ok, first things first, let's head over to #xubuntu, because this is the development channel, not the support channel (and you're seeing a bug)
<Orioa> k
<Orioa> how do i get there
<ochosi> is this the first time you use irc? :)
<ochosi>  /join #xubuntu
<Orioa> no but not all to familar with it yet but learning
<ochosi> sure, no worries
<Orioa> ok im there
<slickymaster> i'm off now
<knome> hey people,
<knome> meeting in 45mins
<skellat> knome: ACK
<Noskcaj> morning everyone
<Noskcaj> gottcode, What are the Qt5 build dependancies of you packages? I'm trying to upload peg-e through pkg-games and adopt 4 other packages
<gottcode> Noskcaj: shouldn't libqt5-dev handle it all?
<Noskcaj> that's not a package in debian or ubuntu
<gottcode> ah, I see. what about qtbase5-dev?
<Noskcaj> That's what i tried. I'll paste the error i get for you to have a look
<Noskcaj> (it only happens in a chroot, whatever is needed is on my PC)
<Noskcaj> Also, can you recommend a watch file? I've only got a working one using your github releases
<gottcode> Never made a watch file before, actually. :)
<gottcode> Since it's all my stuff, I figured out the barest amount to package them.
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Dec  5 19:00:05 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> who's here for the meeting (or otherwise hanging out?)
<knome> !team | Meeting time!
<ubottu> Meeting time!: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, micahg, mr_pouit, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, Unit193
<jjfrv8-work> o/
<pleia2> o/
<slickymaster> o/
<ali1234> o/
<knome> #topic Items carried on
<knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting 
<knome> #action knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week 
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
<knome> TBD
<knome> #action micahg to talk to barry about python2.7/3 situation 
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to talk to barry about python2.7/3 situation
<knome> micahg, ?
<knome> micahg, "#action micahg to talk to barry about python2.7/3 situation"
<skellat> o/
<ochosi> o/
<knome> micahg-work, is that done, or shall we carry on?
<micahg-work> WRT 14.04, python 2.7 is staying in main, so we're good
<knome> okay, i guess if we're good, then that's a good thing ;)
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x16dcf90>
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> Team, please use #info and #action as appropriate.
<Noskcaj> o/
<knome> ochosi, updates?
<ochosi> #info ochosi is testing getting rid of gnome-icon-theme in 14.04 to reduce overhead
<knome> that's ++
<ochosi> #info Everyone can test that by using the shimmer daily PPA (bluesabre put up trusty packages today)
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/daily
<skellat> #info skellat is satisfied with testing whiskermenu via no-change backport to 12.04 and is willing to vote on a proposal to make it default
<ochosi> thanks knome 
<ochosi> gottcode, the author of whiskermenu is also here, if you have questions
<skellat> #info skellat has made no-change backport versions available in ppa:skellat/tests for those willing to try whiskermenu who are not yet on trusty
<knome> we can either 1) vote if we want to make whiskermenu default and then reconsider further actions or 2) build up a full proposal of the new panel layout (which is ought to change), including how whiskermenu is integrated, and vote on that as a whole
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~skellat/+archive/tests
<knome> i'm preferring 2)
<ochosi> hm, quick question, who of you has tried whiskermenu so far?
<skellat> o/
<knome> not yet, but but.. i've seen screenshots!
<jjfrv8-work> o/ in Precise
<ali1234> i've tried it briefly. it's not something i would use.
<ali1234> (and so i can't really comment on whether it's good or bad)
<Noskcaj> I tried it and prefer it, but try to stick to the default desktop so i'm not using it now
<knome> since i don't use menus, i don't know how i would "test" whiskermenu in a daily environment..
<ochosi> ali1234: well you know the difference between the standard menu and whiskermenu feature-wise
<slickymaster> I haven't tried, but like knome I saw screenshots
<elfy> ochosi: I've used it a bit and fin dit fine 
<jjfrv8-work> It's my default now
<ochosi> knome: you can bind it to a shortcut and use it instead of appfinder to launch apps
<Unit193> I didn't try it because it didn't look like something I would prefer, I'll try it at some point.
<knome> i know the difference as well, and i generally have no exceptions to include it
<ochosi> ok
<knome> ochosi, i don't use appfinder either ... :)
<elfy> well we need to decide whether our users would find it useful then 
<knome> ultimately, even if we included whiskermenu in the default panel layout, people can get the normal menu back
<Unit193> Nor do I, except to function as xfrun.
<ochosi> well fine, despite this not being a formal voting process, i got some feedback, i think i can do the panel-proposal
<elfy> not on whether we do - especially if some of us don't use menus at all
<skellat> :-)
<knome> and with the possible patch/app done by ali1234, we might be able to make panel layout editing easier
<knome> ali1234, can you #info the progress on that?
<ochosi> yup, that's very true
<knome> because i think we want that documented...
<ali1234> #info ali1234 made a tool to easily change panel layouts: https://github.com/ali1234/panel-switch/
<elfy> sorry - can't sit here - have fun
<ali1234> #info command line only at the moment, but it does the job. needs someone to design a gui
<ochosi> ali1234: wanna set up a page in the xubuntu wiki for that?
<knome> i think that's a cool idea.
<ali1234> not really, but if you create it, i'll fill in the details
<knome> i can create that
<knome> #action knome to create a wikipage for panel layout switcher
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to create a wikipage for panel layout switcher
<knome> just remind me after the meeting and i'll get that item done right now
<knome> other updates?
<skellat> I'm ready for the agenda item
<skellat> I hope ali1234 is too
<knome> heh, sure
<knome> let's move forward
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> anybody have any?
<knome> okay.
<knome> #topic New and emerging items
<Noskcaj> Maybe that whiskermenu 1.2.2 is out, will be in ubuntu some time this week. parole 0.5.4 is also out, once again will be uploaded soon
<knome> yeah, new versions will be landing in trusty for a long time to go
<knome> #subtopic Fixing the Gtk2 sound indicator in Saucy, in a way that can be SRU'd (ali1234) 
<skellat> If I may speak first to this sound indicator issue
<knome> go ahead
<skellat> We already have at least one user, Richard Elkins, actually advocating on our -devel mailing list that users switch away to Mint.  The bug comments have been getting a bit out of hand with people complaining that this is "a simple fix" yet not putting forward patches or debdiffs.
<skellat> I'm very thankful for the work ali1234 has done.
<skellat> And I defer to him to explain it at this time.
<ali1234> ok... so first let me explain why it is broken
<ali1234> the indicator is in two parts: the bit that draws the menu, and the dbus backend that communicates between the menu and pulseaudio, music players etc
<ali1234> the indicator obviously cmes in gtk2 and gtk3 versions. they both come with a backend service, which is launched on dbus activation. both versions of the backend have the same dbus name, so what happens in practice is you always get the gtk3 version of the backend
<ali1234> this working in raring, but the backend was completely rewritten in saucy, so this no longer works
<ali1234> the "simple fix" posted on the bug comments isn't really a fix at all: it will break many things
<ali1234> so i finally got annoyed enough to look into fixing it properly, and it turned out to be very easy
<knome> ok, how do we get this in? :>
<ali1234> all that is required is to change the dbus name so that the gtk2 indicator asks for a different dbus name, ie "com.canonical.indicator.sound-gtk2" instead of "com.canonical.indicator.sound"
<ali1234> this turns out to be a 4 line patch
<knome> does that fix the issue for xubuntu, but doesn't break the same thing for other flavors?
<ali1234> i had initially thought this wouldn't work, because music players wouldn't know to use the different dbus name, but it turns out for some reason this is not an issue and it works fine
<ochosi> knome: i guess we need to do a debdiff or something and then get a sponsor to SRU it?
<ali1234> this fixes the problem for anyone using the gtk2 indicator still, and does not affect any other flavours at all
<skellat> ali1234: Would a suitable sponsor be available to navigate this through the SRU process?
<ali1234> i don't see why not
<ali1234> i have a debdiff, and a ppa with the fixed package
<knome> that's the the social requirements
<knome> skellat, want to run through those with ali1234?
<knome> skellat, (and then the sponsorship queue)
<micahg-work> if it's that small, I can certainly sponsor it
<knome> ok, cool
<ochosi> well 4 lines? :>
<knome> that's huge ;)
<ochosi> s/if// ;)
<micahg-work> I like 4 line patches :)
<ali1234> i'm not sure whether to do it through a MR against "gtk2 indicators"
<ali1234> it needs fixing in trusty and saucy
<micahg-work> don't you need 2 MRs though?
<ali1234> micahg-work: yes, but only because i had to change the packaging as well as the code
<knome> ali1234, except that we're looking to handle the issue differently in trusty (gtk3 indicators support)
<ali1234> and they are done in different repos i think... but i can't figure out how this stuff is managed
<micahg-work> well, doesn't the service name need to change as well?
<ali1234> knome: if the gtk2 indicator will still be in the repos, then i want it to work, even if we don't use it
<knome> ali1234, sure, fix approved ;)
<ali1234> micahg-work: the service and indicator are all in the same package
<micahg-work> ah, ok
<ali1234> let me show you the debdiff...
<ali1234> micahg-work: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6526233/
<ali1234> so basically it changes the service name in both halves of the indicator, and then adjusts the packaging so that the service file is included (normally it isn't because it would conflict with the gtk3 one, as they would have the same name)
<micahg-work> ok
<micahg-work> I can do this Sat night (can't do it right now as I need to compare some stuff and it'll take a bit more than just a test build)
<knome> micahg-work, do you need the formal SRU progress followed by that, or will you just handle it?
<ali1234> that comment in debian/rules should probably also go, since it's no longer true
<micahg-work> ali1234, lines 30-32 of the paste need a space in the pattch
<ali1234> this is why i'd rather do a MR against a upstream repo :)
<micahg-work> knome, if someone can fill in the paperwork for the bug, that would help, I can upload to trusty/saucy once I verify the packaging piece
<knome> micahg-work, cheers
<knome> skellat, since you are familiar with both the issue and the SRU process, would you be willing to help ali1234 file the paperwork?
<micahg-work> ali1234, that's fine, but all this should be going away in trusty anyways, right?
<skellat> knome: Yes
<knome> skellat, thanks!
<ali1234> micahg-work: maybe for xubuntu but i think lubuntu still uses it?
<micahg-work> skellat, just assign the saucy (if it exists) + default tasks to me
<knome> #action skellat and ali1234 to look at the SRU progress for indicator-sound-GTK2
<meetingology> ACTION: skellat and ali1234 to look at the SRU progress for indicator-sound-GTK2
<ali1234> i mean theoretically the gtk2 indicators should have gone away a long time ago
<micahg-work> (it might already be assigned to me)
<knome> #action micahg-work to SRU indicator-sound-GTK2
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg-work to SRU indicator-sound-GTK2
<knome> do we need to go through something else about this?
<skellat> Just note that we need to review progress next week as well as somebody pinging the bug thread on -devel with an update.
<knome> #action team to review indicator-sound-GTK2 progress next week and send an update to the mailing list
<meetingology> ACTION: team to review indicator-sound-GTK2 progress next week and send an update to the mailing list
<knome> #nick team
<knome> is there other items that we should go through, or should we schedule the next meeting and then wrap this one?
<knome> pleia2, you still slept the meeting!
<knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
<knome> #info Next meeting Dec 12, 19UTC
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x16ca9d0>
<knome> #info Next meeting Thursday Dec 12, 19UTC
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Dec  5 19:33:47 2013 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-12-05-19.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-12-05-19.00.html
<knome> ta
<pleia2> I was here :) just didn't have much to say
<knome> so slept! :P
<pleia2> :P
<knome> minutes are up
<micahg-work> ali1234, thanks for figuring that out
<Noskcaj> gottcode, the error i'm getting is http://paste.ubuntu.com/6526181/
<Noskcaj> Which of your packages (that are in debian) don't use qmake?
<gottcode> Only whiskermenu.
<ali1234> knome: reminder about wikipage for panel-switcher :)
<Noskcaj> ok. Then i really need to find what is breaking everything's build with qt5
<knome> ali1234, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/PanelLayoutSwitcher
<knome> ali1234, just fill in the parts that seem appropriate.
<ali1234> right-o
<Unit193> pleia2: Yep, same here.
<knome> yeah, boring meeting :d
<gottcode> Noskcaj: tetzle also requires libqt5opengl5-dev, nothing else does
<knome> well we didn't have many issues on the agenda.
<Noskcaj> gottcode, I had that too. 
<Unit193> http://goo.gl/6qj0qr
<Unit193> Wouldn't it be better to use xdg.BaseDirectory.xdg_config_home in panel-switcher?
<gottcode> Noskcaj: Looks like you also need the qt5-default package as a build dep to tell qtchooser which qmake to actually use
<Noskcaj> thanks gottcode, it works. I'll try and do some uploads later today
<gottcode> Glad I could help
<Noskcaj> Why do you include .exe files in the source?
<Noskcaj> The only other issues are every binary needs a manpage, and Some keywords in the .desktop would be nice
<gottcode> The exe files are only used under Windows, in Linux you can just recommend jhead for lossless JPEG rotation
<gottcode> Makes it easier for other people to make their own Windows builds of the game
<Noskcaj> ok, i'll make a custom tarball to remove that
<ali1234> brainwash: so apparently the way indicators work changed again, this might be why you have missing indicators
<Noskcaj> gottcode, On linux, would i be safe to delete the whole tools/ folder or should i jut remove the windows binaries?
<gottcode> Noskcaj: safe to delete the tools folder
<Unit193> forestpiskie: Hey, if you get to bug me about -qa, do I get to bug you about QA?  https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/xfce ;)
<ali1234> Unit193: why?
<ali1234> Unit193: (why xdg.BaseDirectory.xdg_config_home?)
<ali1234> oh, you mean instead of the hard coded path to ~/.config?
<ali1234> if so, then yes, probably
<ali1234> it's currently only a proof of concept :)
<Unit193> Sure, was thinking in theory you can move that, but I've never seen it done.
<ochosi> ali1234: crap, really? indicators work differently *again* in trusty?
<ochosi> i'm starting to think we should just improve the xfce4-soundmenu plugin...
<ochosi> and drop all that indicator-madness for good
<brainwash> really? some of them just start via autostart now
<ochosi> well ali1234 said so a few hours ago
<ochosi> (i just returned now)
<brainwash> I will do some testing tomorrow
<brainwash> but most of the time the appindicator service does not start for me
<brainwash> it complains that there are no watchers
<ochosi> yeah, well i have no idea what's happening in trusty, i just quoted
<brainwash> looks almost like I'm the only one actually testing trusty and some of the new features/fixes :D
<ochosi> i think there are more ppl, probably you're just talking too much to me ;)
<knome> i think it's still a bit slow on the trusty testing
<knome> will pump up once we get to the alphas
<ochosi> true that
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-06
<knome> ali1234, did you get your hands on the linux identity magazine already?
<ochosi> ali1234: i never received a copy of that (weren't they sent out at some point?)
<knome> ochosi, seriously? crap.
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> ochosi, do you want a paper copy?
<ochosi> i forgot about it again
<ochosi> well, if you have a digital copy, that's fine as well
<knome> you should contact sonny...
<ochosi> don't wanna waste paper or money for the post
<knome> hmm.
<knome> i might
<ochosi> and it's ok, i know what i wrote ;)
<knome> i have some non-final PDF exports
<knome> i could see if i find the final version
<knome> or ask sonny for one
<knome> nah, i don't have
<knome> maybe pleia2 has
<ochosi> alrighty, i'm off, night everyone!
<knome> nighty
<bluesabre> slickymaster: looks good to me
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-network/+bug/1185565
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1185565 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Indicators should have Upstart jobs" [Medium,In progress]
<ali1234> brainwash: what happens if you run this in a terminal: "initÂ --userÂ --startup-eventÂ indicator-services-start & xfce4-panel -r"
<ali1234> brainwash: scratch that. try this: "initctl emit indicator-services-start && xfce4-panel -r"
<ochosi_> ali1234: i presume this test is mostly valuable in trusty?
<ali1234> ochosi_: only in trusty :)
<ali1234> ochosi_: see #ubuntu-desktop
<ochosi> ali1234: very cool of you to check that out now
<ali1234> well i don't want us to get stuck on -gtk2 yet again because the -gtk3 indicators changed and nobody noticed
<ali1234> we might have to distropatch this in though
<ali1234> but hey, it's two lines
<ochosi> why distropatch? is anyone outside ubuntu using indicators?
<ali1234> yes, arch
<ochosi> actually it might be interesting at some point to support gnome3 indicators
<ali1234> has the full unity stack
<ochosi> if that's at all possible
<ochosi> ah, cool
<ali1234> well, i'm not touching anything gnome3 :P
<ochosi> ;)
<ali1234> they will probably be written in javascript and html and require linking the panel against webkit
<Unit193> ochosi: IIRC, Ubuntu hasn't even had a real release with gtk3 indicators...
<Unit193> ali1234: Arch has everything, well almost, not sure if they got mir working.
<ali1234> what do you mean?
<ali1234> ubuntu has used exclusively gtk3 indicators since at least 12.04
<ochosi> ali1234: quick question, for panel-switch's UI, would you want a mockup or something in glade?
<ali1234> either
<ali1234> i don't really know how to use glade
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> well i can do something simplistic in inkscape then
<ochosi> i presume you'll do a gtk3 UI?
<ali1234> meh.
<ali1234> you going to use gtk3 only stuff in the design?
<ochosi> nah
<ochosi> only standard widgets that exist in both worlds
<ochosi> so theoretically you should be able to make it build with gtk2 and 3
<ali1234> well it's python... there is no "build"
<ochosi> ok
<slickymaster> morning all
<knome> morning slickymaster 
<knome> slickymaster, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FrontPageRefresh
<knome> ;)
<slickymaster> hi knome, good morning
<slickymaster> I'll take a more thorough look at home, tonight
<slickymaster> but it looks much better
<knome> sure
<knome> not much has changed since the last time
<slickymaster> well, it has now a more aesthetically appealing
<knome> heh, yep
<knome> do you have some time do discuss the content-related stuff now, or should we postpone that for the evening as well?
<slickymaster> by the way, if you feel like wasting a few minutes of your time, https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/mugshot/+merge/197873 is ready for review and possible merge
<knome> ah, i could do that possibly later
<slickymaster> I would prefer to do it after dinner, 21:00 UTC
<slickymaster> is that good for you
<knome> ok, that works
<slickymaster> bluesabre already gave its ok to the test http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/12/06/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t01:11
<knome> ah, cool
<knome> then i should get to that a bit faster
<slickymaster> I'm try to see if I can manage to finish http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs by today
<slickymaster> trying ^^
<ochosi> slickymaster: sweet!
<slickymaster> but it's not going to be easy
<slickymaster> morning ochosi :)
<knome> i believe the mugshot test is a completely new one?
<slickymaster> I've already made same changes to http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:command-line
<knome> ochosi, want to answer the user on #x?
<slickymaster> yes its knome 
<knome> ;)=
<slickymaster> it is ^^
 * slickymaster fingers are completely frozen
<knome> heh, cold in there?
<slickymaster> not like in Finland, but pretty damn cold for a mediterranean autumn  
<slickymaster> right now 3Âº C
<slickymaster> and the heating is broken at work
<knome> awh
<knome> i don't think it's *too* cold outside here either
<knome> says +1 :)
<slickymaster> :)
<ochosi> ali1234: this is a very minimal starting point: http://imagebin.org/280849
<ochosi> ali1234: the save button is supposed to save the current layout under a new name (so it's actually a save-as button)
<ochosi> knome: in case you also wanna take a look at the mockup ^
<knome> k
<ali1234> yeah that's pretty much what i was imagining
<knome> slickymaster, test for mugshot is merged and in the tracker
<slickymaster> thanks knome, time to start https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1256898
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1256898 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed : xfce4 session handling" [Undecided,In progress]
<ochosi> ali1234: for loading new layouts into the thing, i thought just DND it into the window
<ochosi> at first i was also thinking about a reset button or something, but it's somehow too confusing
<ochosi> (reset to what?)
<ochosi> i guess something like a popup-dialog on the apply button saying "your current layout will be lost, really apply?" would be better
<brainwash> ali1234: http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=8481
<ali1234> brainwash: yeah, fixed
<brainwash> ali1234: should I test and emit the signal for the indicator or does it not work
<ali1234> when thepatches get pulled
<ali1234> brainwash: give it a try. it might act a bit funny though
<ali1234> like the initctl command might hang
<ali1234> if so just reload the panel on another terminal
<brainwash> ok
<ochosi> ali1234: want me to attach the mockup to the xubuntu-wiki page for panel-switch?
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> brainwash: where did you see those errors about "No watchers"
<brainwash> ali1234: xsession log
<brainwash> so the command did get stuck, but it worked somewhat
<brainwash> however, the nm-applet still showed up as gtkstatusicon
<ali1234> yes, that is a different bug
<brainwash> seems related
<elfy> Unit193: not really sure what you mean 
<elfy> hey brainwash 
<brainwash> if my sync indicator is able to load properly, then nm-applet did also
<brainwash> elfy: hi :)
<ali1234> brainwash: see #ubuntu-desktop
<brainwash> so back to dbus activation?
<ali1234> not unless we patch it back in
<ochosi> good you got a hold of tedg though
<elfy> any logs for yesterday's meeting ochosi ?
<slickymaster> here you go elfy http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-12-05-19.00.html
<slickymaster> good morning ;)
<elfy> ty slickymaster 
<ochosi> ah, too late...
<elfy> never too late ochosi - you would have :)
<ali1234> brainwash: try putting INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes in /etc/environment and restart
<brainwash> that var name :D
<brainwash> let me test
<ali1234> seems to work good for me
<brainwash> ali1234: works
<ali1234> brainwash: completely?
<brainwash> seems so
<ali1234> cool
<ali1234> that's an easy fix then, and tedg agreed it is a bug and should get fixed
<ali1234> infact i'm gonna do a branch
<brainwash> yet another branch :)
<ali1234> i just posted the gtk2 fix ppa on the bug report and ML thread
<ali1234> brainwash: well this is a bug in libindicator3
<brainwash> you are fixing so much stuff, you are really awesome :D
<bluesabre> +1
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> i'll start prepping our icon-theme with symbolic icons now for the gtk3 indicators...
<ochosi> then at some point, we would be able to drop the -dark icon-theme-variant
<ali1234> why?
<ali1234> isn't that the default one?
<ochosi> yeah, but it only makes stuff in the panel use bright icons
<ochosi> so that if the panel bg is dark, you can still see them
<ochosi> with symbolic icons, that's not necessary anymore
<ali1234> isn't that what you want, if you have dark panels?
<ochosi> depending on the theme-bg, the indicators will adjust
<ochosi> (it uses the fg color of the panel/indicator widget to color the icon)
<ali1234> i see, sounds good
<ochosi> yeah, that's one of the *real* benefit of gtk3
<ochosi> benefits
<ochosi> cause that principle works everywhere, also in menus
<ochosi> so e.g. if you have dark hover-color with dark icons in menus, that's not a problem anymore, the selected item/icon will just use fgcolor as if it were a font
<bluesabre> ochosi: but we still have gtk2 system tray icons
<ochosi> bluesabre: yes, i know, for that we will have to keep -dark around
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> but not necessarily set it by default anymore
<ochosi> and luckily the indicators use different icon-names from e.g. xfce4-powermanager
<ochosi> so powerman icons can be kept while indicator icons will be dropped and use -symbolic instead
<ali1234> can't we just use indicator-power?
<bluesabre> yes and no, I believe the xfce4-power-manager requires its system tray icon
<bluesabre> we can hide the system tray, but xfce apps depend on it
<ochosi> we can
<ochosi> i have a patch for indicator-power that helps with xfce-powerman
<ochosi> (i.e. going to power-settings opens xfce4-powermans settings)
<ali1234> can you do anything about the spacing of systray icons? so they're not all squashed together, but equally spaced like indicators?
<bluesabre> right, but you'll have two battery icons in your systray
<ochosi> bluesabre: no, you can set the systray icon to "always hide" in powerman
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> that works! :)
<ochosi> ali1234: i can try to improve that, yeah
<ochosi> ali1234: difference is: indicators are buttons, so they have more padding around them naturally
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/280886 <- also this
<ali1234> this only seems to happen if xfce4-power-manager is the only icon in the systray
<ali1234> seems to happen with any theme
<ochosi> have you tried to use elementary-xfce there?
<ochosi> cause for some odd reason, having a horizontally laying battery never worked for that trayicon (i know it sounds weird...)
<ali1234> ah yeah that does fix it
<ali1234> yeah this only happens with ubuntu-mono icons
<ochosi> yeah, hmpf, not much i can do about that...
<ali1234> plugin bug?
<ochosi> you can take the battery-icons from elementary-xfce and copy them over to ubuntu-mono
<ochosi> yeah i think it's a powerman trayicon bug
<ali1234> it renders correctly if there's any other icons in the systray...
<ali1234> probably something to do with the icon size
<ochosi> ah hm
<ochosi> probably
<ali1234> i'll put it on the list
<ochosi> gotta go, have a nice day everyone
<knome> bluesabre, i guess you are fine in continuing in ~xubuntu-release until the release of 14.04?
<slickymaster> I'm off
<slickymaster> bbl
<knome> slickymaster, ping
<knome> slickymaster, rather here :)
<slickymaster> there's something  I've noticed. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/FromLinux hasn't been edited/updated since 201
<slickymaster> 2010 ^^
<knome> yep...
<slickymaster> and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/FromMacOSX also
<knome> i guess that's a general problem for the wiki
<slickymaster> yes, that's very true
<knome> somehow, for me, the way the signpost is categorised, doesn't work
<slickymaster> there's a lack of tags in dozens of pages
<knome> i has the slight problem of guessing what people want
<slickymaster> namely the Needs Updating tag
<knome> by what argument do all power users wnat to become programmers?
<slickymaster> I've faced that exact same problem with https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NewDocs
<slickymaster> that was one of the reasons I've created a sort of a sand-box area for it
<skellat> knome: I think that is a social issue in need of escalation so that we can best deal with Customer Execution
<skellat> s/Customer Execution/Customer Service Execution/
<knome> slickymaster, another thing that pops out is some of the warnings, ie in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sound
<knome> slickymaster, shouldn't the warning be in the wikimarkup as a comment rather than something that's facing all users, even those who only want to read the wiki and do not even think about contributing
<slickymaster> knome, yeaps, agree
<slickymaster> even though I must confess that I've never came across that type of tag
<knome> that's one some of the pages linked from the frontpage
<knome> like Sound, Printers, InputDevices
<slickymaster> hm hm
<slickymaster> another link I have serious doubts about is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Signpost/Answers#signpost
<knome> well the signpost as a complete entity is a bit weird
<knome> ultimately, just https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Signpost/Destinations could be modified to be a "list ofresources"
<slickymaster> basically it leads to an almost dead end for someone not used to the wiki concept
<knome> (and even that list isn't exhaustive)
<knome> and that page is highly repetitive
<knome> there should only be one howto; "how to connect to irc"
<knome> then just telling the people to fill in the right channel
<knome> or, the better, easier way,
<knome> just link to the freenode webchat with channel details filled automatically
<slickymaster> yes, 
<knome> in the same way we are linking people to #xubuntu on our installer
<slickymaster> one thing though I think you should consider is to add a link to http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<slickymaster> for many people it's their gateway to *buntu
<slickymaster> afk (back in a sec)
<knome> well basically we should link all external/additional resources somewhere
<knome> not only the ubuntu manual, but also say, the xubuntu documentation
<slickymaster> once I agrre
<slickymaster> agree
<knome> where should that list be?
<knome> well, meh
<knome> that's a hard question
<knome> if the ideal answer seems to be "at the top of the front page", that tells me the help wiki is crap
 * slickymaster nods
<knome> if it's at the bottom, the question is if we should list them all on the frontpage, or create another page for the resources (probably the better option)
<slickymaster> and one thing must be considered IMO, which is the fact that the front page shouldn't be a continuous scroll  of items
<slickymaster> that would contradict its concept, the way I see it
<slickymaster> I would go with your second option, creating another page just for resources
<slickymaster> are you not considering adding any references to touch devices?
<knome> the help topics -section shoud be edited and extended as needed
<knome> i've just copied over all the things that were in the current front page
<slickymaster> you mean extended on the front page itself? in the existent table?
<knome> yep
<knome> say there was a completely new category of hardware
<knome> the blingbling devices
<knome> one should simply add that to the listing as appropriate
<slickymaster> but aren't you afraid that might cause an incredible growth on the page size?
<knome> ultimately, all the content should be "alive" and editable by people who know the wiki content
<knome> if it grows, maybe the main categories should be rethought
<slickymaster> my fear is that the page easily can became a huge sheet where people will have to go through a non-stop scroll to get to the Find your way... for instance
<knome> heh.
<knome> sure.
<knome> i guess we need to rethink that once i get the rest of the page reformatted
<knome> we can look at a better way to format the topic list as well
<slickymaster> yes, it's a tricky thing to balance design conception and pragmatic contents
<knome> not sure if all the descriptions are needed in the frontpage as they are now
<knome> but ultimately, (again) i want to leave those considerations to the people who know the (scale of the) content in the wiki
<slickymaster> you mean the second column in the tables?
<knome> yes
<slickymaster> well but any sort of description ought to be present
<knome> well
<knome> consider this
<knome> Printers
<knome> Setting up and using your printer
<knome> isn't that obvious?
<slickymaster> no argues with that one :)
<knome> we could split the list in three paragraphs
<slickymaster> but building software, on the other hand, might not be so accessible 
<knome> sure
<belkinsa> Hey all, I heard you have a wiki issue.
<slickymaster> some of therm can be shortened
<slickymaster> hi belkinsa 
<knome> hullo
<slickymaster> you should talk with knome 
<belkinsa> Okay, skellat is passing me on the scrollback.
<knome> o/
<knome> i don't have an "issue" as it is,
<slickymaster> afk
<knome> i'm working on refreshing the help wiki front page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FrontPageRefresh
<pleia2> and knome is scared of #ubuntu-doc
<pleia2> :P
<knome> no, not really
<pleia2> really should be having discussions there
<knome> i just want to limit the channel amount
<knome> but ma, wasn't me who started the discussion!
<belkinsa> Yeah, if it's a doc issue.
<knome> and -doc was quite quiet the last time i told i was working on that
<knome> for days
<knome> then i parted.
<skellat> knome: belkinsa has been looking at tagging issues herself in the wiki
<skellat> You two should discuss together perhaps
<knome> my focus of interest isn't the tagging or the content itself as much as the way the information is laid out
<skellat> knome: Which is still part of her domain of concern
<knome> sure...
 * skellat wanders off to get some tea
<knome> jjfrv8, hey, ping me when you're around
<bluesabre> knome: sure thing, hopefully I'll be helpful with it :)
<knome> oki, then i'll extend your membership
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-07
<jjfrv8> knome, I'm around if you still are.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, pexpect 3 is now in debian, should be built and moved to ubuntu this weekend
<jjfrv8> knome, I'll try to catch up with you tomorrow.
<skellat> LP Bug 1258713 just popped up.  Hey bluesabre, how close are we to the support window closing for 13.04?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1258713 in catfish (Ubuntu) "Catfish crashing with gi._glib.GError: Icon 'camera-photo' not present in theme" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1258713
<Unit193> Ubuntu 13.04 "Raring Ringtail" 49
<Unit193> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS "Precise Pangolin" 1236
<Unit193> Ubuntu 12.10 "Quantal Quetzal" 132
<Unit193> Ubuntu 13.10 "Saucy Salamander" 222
<skellat> Unit193: Only 49 more days?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: that is fantastic news
<bluesabre> skellat, enough time for me to push a fix :)
<knome> pleia2, oi, lots of wiki admin goodness :)
<jjfrv8> knome, ping
<jjfrv8> knome, sorry i missed you again. I probably won't be back until tomorrow.
<knome> jjfrv8, i'm here
<knome> jjfrv8, if you have some time...
<jjfrv8> ok, what's up?
<knome> we attended the docs team meeting with pleia2
<knome> there was an idea to do a "what's new" page or something for LTS->LTS (and possibly last release->LTTS)
<knome> what do you think of this?
<knome> would it be sensible to try to do this for xubuntu as well?
<jjfrv8> yeah, I think that makes sense
<knome> ok, cool
<knome> another thing i wanted to ask is if you have any questions about the blueprints or something else?
<jjfrv8> not about that but where will this "what's new" page go?
<knome> that's to be discussed
<knome> could be at least a blog article
<knome> and we could craft a pdf or sth from that as well
<jjfrv8> ok. i guess we can't do it until we actually know what's going to be new, eh?
<knome> heh, sure
<knome> well we know some things that are going to be new
<knome> xfce stuff and that
<knome> 12.04 had different things
<jjfrv8> I should add it to the blueprint, then?
<knome> you or me can do that
<knome> you'll get some karma if you do... :)
<jjfrv8> yeah, I need karma... or something :)
<knome> hehe
<knome> jjfrv8, cheers! and see you later, if you need to run :)
<jjfrv8> BP updated. Thanks. Back tomorrow.
<brainwash> ochosi: did you confirm that the sound indicator icon is sometimes missing/invisible?
<ali1234> brainwash: i get that sometimes... but not seen it on trusty (yet)
<brainwash> happens now quite regularly for me (trusty)
<brainwash> maybe related to the strange delay on the first login
<brainwash> whisker menu panel item showing up delayed, sound indicator icon missing, xfdesktop using fall back theme
<brainwash> that's what I notice quite often
<brainwash> restarting the sound-indicator-service restores the icon
<ali1234> yeah, could definitely be related
<ali1234> we probably need to look at the order things load up
<Noskcaj> gthumb 3.2.5 is now in debian
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-08
<skellat> micahg: You want me to open the bug for SRU paperwork to get started for killing off the indicators issue?
<skellat> ali1234: Are you still around at this hour?
<ali1234> yeah
<skellat> Have you started an SRU bug already?
<ali1234> no
<skellat> Crud
<skellat> Let me see if I can get one started so we can fill in the blanks for micahg
<skellat> ali1234: What's the package we would be updating?
<ali1234> indicator-sound-gtk2
<ali1234> do we really need a new bug? what's wrong with the existing one?
<skellat> ali1234: I thought about using the existing one
<skellat> I don't want the current commentators messing with the SRU stuff
<skellat> But, we can still use the current bug
<skellat> http://pad.lv/1208204
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208204 in indicator-sound-gtk2 (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged]
<ali1234> fair enough
<ali1234> so, random question
<ali1234> in my ppa the debdiff only shows the difference between the current version and the previous one i uploaded, which i deleted
<ali1234> why?
<Unit193> Because it's a diff from "this version to previous"
<ali1234> but previous no longer exists
<Unit193> And when you upload a newer version, the older one will also no longer exist.
<skellat> ali1234: Here's what I've got so far for the SRU paperwork: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6538478/
<ali1234> Unit193: that's the thing: when i uploaded a new version, the old ones stayed and i had to manually delete them
<Unit193> ali1234: They will until the new ones are fully built and published, yes.
<ali1234> skellat: so the biggest regression potential is if it cnflicts with the gtk3 indicator somehow
<skellat> How would we know?
<ali1234> "try it"
<ali1234> the only way i can think of is if the two services both use the same dconf keys or something
<skellat> Lets shift to this Etherpad to edit perhaps: http://pad.ubuntu.com/spiE1k9rME
<ali1234> which they do
<ali1234> but i don't know if it matters
<skellat> ali1234: Does it look somewhat decent now?
<ali1234> yeah, i didn't want you to delete the whole paragraph. i think we should mention we only want to fix the gtk2 indicator because landing gtk3 would be huge
<skellat> Sorry
<skellat> Just hit Control-Z on my end
<skellat> ali1234: It looks like all three derive from the same source project: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicators-gtk2
<ali1234> yes, that project was set up to maintain the gtk2 versions after upstream dropped them
<ali1234> ido-gtk2 is a support library which draws widgets
<skellat> ali1234: You satisfied with the way the SRU paperwork looks?
<ali1234> yes
<skellat> Should we go ahead and use the existing bug still?
<skellat> It is triaged so I actually can just change the description then assign it to micahg and be done with it
<ali1234> up to your judgement
<skellat> There are risks with the commentators though
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> i can watch the bug for silly changes
<skellat> Screw it, LP Bug #1208204 it is!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208204 in indicator-sound-gtk2 (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208204
<ali1234> otoh at least it looks like we're doing something
<ali1234> rather than hiding it
<ali1234> so... shall i post a debdiff then?
<skellat> ali1234: We should leave that for micahg
<ali1234> how do you mean?
<skellat> He's supposed to do his own build and upload
<ali1234> yeah, but won't he need the debdiff to know what to actually fix?
<skellat> True
<skellat> Go for it
<skellat> I had to make a request in #ubuntu-bugs for somebody to assign the bug to him since I lack that power
<ali1234> hmm... attachment seems to have got lost somewhere... i don't see it
<ali1234> oh well
<skellat> It is moving on the right path
<Unit193> ali1234: I see the debdiff on the right side, under "Patches"
<ali1234> ah yes
<Unit193> bluesabre: /var/lib/dpkg/info/lightdm-gtk-greeter.postinst: 20: /var/lib/dpkg/info/lightdm-gtk-greeter.postinst: /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults: not found  ===  http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/amd64/lightdm/filelist
<Unit193> lightdm (1.9.4-0ubuntu1): - Remove lightdm-set-defaults and gdmflexiserver.
<Unit193> "New" method: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/unity-greeter/trusty/view/head:/debian/50-unity-greeter.conf
<Unit193> I could propose 10-xubuntu.conf for xubuntu-default-settings, if that's actually needed (very easy.)
<Unit193> Anywho: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/unity-greeter/trusty/revision/57 - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/ubuntu-settings/trusty/revision/10
<knome> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu.html
<elfy> nice - glad to see that -qa has things listed and not just me :p
<knome> heh
<elfy> leave it a little while and then move things from -qa to ~Unit193 
<knome> yep
<knome> sounds fair
<knome> elfy, was there anybody who responded to the mail sent to -testers, or did you see new testers pop up in the tracker?
<bluesabre> ah, Unit193: please do :)
<elfy> knome: no replies to me - and I've not been in any fit state to check if we've got any new names
<knome> oki
<brainwash> ali1234: you should inform these users about the recent upstream changes http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=8481
<ali1234> i don't have a forum account
<brainwash> I do, but I would need to recover my password
<brainwash> and the affected package "xfwm4 (ubuntu)" should be changed to "xfwm4" or? bug 1232804
<ubottu> bug 1232804 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Improve "login greeter -> desktop" transition in Xubuntu" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232804
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> i'm looking at tearing and opengl
<ali1234> opengl compositing is an order of magnitude slower on nvidia
<ali1234> but it fixes the tearing that you get with Xrender
<brainwash> so opengl instead of xrender as backend?
<brainwash> what about the recent addition of vsync to xfwm4?
<ali1234> so i'm wondering why we can't just render everything to a buffer with Xrender (like we do now) and then copy that buffer into the opengl backbuffer one time
<ali1234> the vsync code doesn't work on nvidia
<ali1234> nvidia drivers are crap for anything but games
<brainwash> doesn't the driver offer a vsync option?
<ali1234> yes, for opengl
<brainwash> like the AMD one does
<brainwash> oh
<brainwash> sounds a bit complicated
<ali1234> yes it is a bit
<brainwash> how about copying the code of some other compositing manager? :)
<brainwash> like compton
<brainwash> still, not an easy task
<brainwash> so xfwm4 could run with both backends, xrender or opengl
<ali1234> compton compositor is almost identical to xfwm4
<ali1234> they are both copied directly from xcompmgr
<ali1234> compton even still has some of the bugs i've fixed in xfwm4
<brainwash> but it can use opengl
<ali1234> yes, which means it's slow on nvidia
<ali1234> like 15FPS slow
<brainwash> ok, mmh, blame nvidia?
<ali1234> i don't see a reason to render every window using opengl
<ali1234> do it all with xrender and the copy it using opengl at the end
<ali1234> we already render everything in an offscreen buffer
<ali1234> this should be easy
<brainwash> yes, sounds easy
<brainwash> I could test it on my AMD powered system, if you come up with a patch :)
<slickymaster> afternoon all
<knome> hey slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hi knome 
<slickymaster> just finished reading -meeting logs for last friday
<slickymaster> but still got update myself on the dozen of mails from the mailing 
<knome> that'll take some time
<slickymaster> :)
<slickymaster> knome, congrats. Just saw the new https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ page
<slickymaster> Is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OtherResources finished or are you still working on it?
<knome> pretty much finished. but it's of course always a WIP
<slickymaster> yes
<slickymaster> nice work knome 
<slickymaster> . kudos
<knome> ta
<elfy> hi slickymaster knome 
<knome> hullo elfy 
<elfy> better today - been driving :)
<slickymaster> hi elfy
<slickymaster> glad to hear that
<knome> cool
<elfy> :)
<slickymaster> elfy, saw the mail from -qa
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> it's not from -qa ;)
<elfy> it's from me :)
<elfy> not everyone in the -qa team actaully got the mail :p
<slickymaster> will answer it today. Trying to catch up with all the mail knome presented me this weekend
<slickymaster> noticed that now ;)
<elfy> slickymaster: no rush on it at all 
<elfy> I've got a whole week to try and catch up on
<slickymaster> did you saw the mugshot manual test?
<knome> i don't think i'm on ubuntu-qa if that's something in there;)
<elfy> knome: you are on -qa, but I didn't bother CC'ing you in to it - if anything comes of it you will get a fait accompli :D
<knome> goodie
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Did the one.
<Unit193> Uhh, that so did not work, I hate bzr.
<Unit193> There.
<slickymaster> knome, as you were on the xubuntu subject, how is https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1213933 going to be dealt with, directly in ubiquity?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1213933 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Slideshow recommends trying out environment which isn't present" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<knome> slickymaster, we need to review the slideshow
<slickymaster> yes, there's also the reference to 13.10 in the first slide that has to be changed
<knome> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html
<slickymaster> I can assign myself to both and propose a merge? what do you think?
<knome> we probably need to look at the slideshow at large, but works for me
<knome> are you familiar with the slideshow branch or want a brief introduction?
<slickymaster> it's very similar to other branches on other LP teams, or am I wrong?
<slickymaster> I will just be working on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html/files/head:/slideshows/xubuntu/slides/
<knome> the pulling and stuff is similar, i was referring to the contents
<slickymaster> knome,  ^^
<knome> yep.
<knome> you can test the slideshow as well though
<slickymaster> yeah, I think i can manage
<knome> in the root directory for the branch, type: ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu
<slickymaster> anyway, I'm assuming that you'll be one of the reviewers, right?
<knome> yep.
<slickymaster> you mean to run it and test it locally
<knome> yep
<slickymaster> will do
<knome> after you've made your changes, just run that command
<knome> and you'll see your changes
<slickymaster> ok
<slickymaster> I'll assign myself
<knome> and can play around in a fake slideshow environment
<knome> cheers :)
<slickymaster> you do keep us busy
<knome> and myself ;)
<slickymaster> very true ;)
<slickymaster> knome, I getting: bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:~slickymaster/ubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/": No such distribution series ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu. when pushing my branch
<slickymaster> can it be a permissions iusse?
<slickymaster> nevermind knome I figured it out
<slickymaster> knome, available for your review and merge https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+merge/198184
<knome> slickymaster, cheers, will get to that later
<slickymaster> okie dokie, knome 
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-01
<ochosi> jjfrv8: this looks great! you can drop all references to light-locker btw, since it's not directly related to xfce
<ochosi> althoguh we could decide at the end to add notes for usage with xscreensaver and light-locker
<ochosi> maybe in the faq or in a separate section
<ochosi> one more note, for xfce's docs we should ideally use the xfce gtk theme and the faenza icon theme in order to be consistent with the other docs
<ochosi> sorry i didn't mention that before, i thought you knew that already
<ochosi> for parole we made an exception because it's a gtk3 app and the xfce theme doesn't support that well enough
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> morning elfy 
<ochosi> Unit193: so the panel is now simply from git master in your PPA?
<Unit193> Yep.
<ochosi> hmkay, i guess then there might still be an issue or two to be sorted out
<ochosi> or i don't have the latest update
<ochosi> hm, crap. seems i do. weird.
<Unit193> git20141127.2c86bef
<ochosi> yeah, that's the one that was supposed to fix whiskermenu making the panel duck away when open
<ochosi> not entirely sure why it works for autohide and not for intelligent
<ochosi> might have to poke the code a little more
<Unit193> Ahh, whisker, didn't try that.
<ochosi> yeah, hadn't tested that previously either because it's an external plugin
<slickymasterWork> knome, seeing Unit193's branch now
<slickymasterWork> so, if I'm seeing it correctly, mainly the important thing is the epubstyle addition to /desktop-guide/Makefile
<sidi> slickymaster, will have a look at that french thingy
<sidi> slickymaster, it should be "veille" instead of "vielle"
<bluesabre> good morning folks
<sidi> slickymaster, trying to get the privileges on Transifex
<sidi> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey sidi :)
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<bluesabre> how are things?
<slickymasterWork> great sidi, thanks a lot for that
<slickymasterWork> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hiya slickymasterWork
<slickymasterWork> and morning also, sidi, ochosi 
<sidi> slickymaster, i cant do the change myself as im not on the Transifex team. i cant find a link to request and both m8t and NSchemer are offline
<sidi> mrpouit, are you on the French transifex team?
<slickymasterWork> mrpouit as been absence for a while now
<bluesabre> he still pops up for a quick few every now and again
<sidi> alright
<ochosi> well, mostly if pinged via mail
<sidi> slickymaster, any idea which panel plugin could contain a "suspend" button?
<slickymasterWork> I'll have a answer for you a a few minutes sidi, I had to dig it up last friday
<slickymasterWork> but I forgot what was the one :P
<sidi> slickymaster, confirmed fixed after checking transifex for relevant plugins
<slickymasterWork> sidi, check xfce4-applications-menu plugin
<sidi> could be your own xubuntu plugin
<sidi> slickymaster, interestingly that one isnt on Transifex
<slickymasterWork> hmm.. that's odd
<sidi> might be part of xfce4-panel
<sidi> couldnt find any wrong string anyway, marked as fixed on Xfce trunk
<ochosi> could've also been in the power-manager
<ochosi> that used to have a suspend menuitem in 1.2
<slickymasterWork> ochosi, did you saw the screenshot the original reporter posted?
<ochosi> hm, maybe i did, but it's been to long
<ochosi> can't remember now
<ochosi> link?
<slickymasterWork> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfce4-panel/+bug/1397353/+attachment/4270193/+files/typo_xfce.png
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1397353 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "xfce4: Typo in the french "suspend" translation" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> oh right, action buttons it is
<ochosi> lunchtime, bbiab
<slickymasterWork> by the looks it seems they usinf Xfce on top of Ubuntu
<slickymasterWork> s/usinf/using
<sidi> slickymaster, could it be a ubuntu-specific shutdown menu?
<sidi> i dont remember having a plugin with a "change users" menu item on Arch+Xfce?
<bluesabre> That's the "Action Buttons" xfce panel plugin
<bluesabre> "actions" in xfconf
<sidi> bluesabre, the Transifex page for panel plugins does not seem to have this one either :/
<bluesabre> it might be a part of the panel itself
<sidi> yeah i found it in the pot
<bluesabre> I think it is
<bluesabre> /plugins/actions/actions.c
<bluesabre> :)
<sidi> there is no occurrence of the buggy string in the xfce4-panel french po file
<sidi> confirmed fixed.
<sidi> ttyl back to work!
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> also getting ready for work now, bbl
<bluesabre> ping me with any uploads to be done, if anybody has them :)
<bluesabre> looks like xfpm is up to be uploaded tonight :)
<bluesabre> will take care of that when I return
<eric_the_idiot> bluesabre, just trying to keep you busy :)
<bluesabre> eric_the_idiot: more!
<bluesabre> :D
<eric_the_idiot> bluesabre, Done! xfsm 4.11.1 :P
<ochosi> :>
<knome> slickymasterWork, and epub (re: the docs Makefile
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre: http://lkubuntu.wordpress.com/2014/12/01/estsaver-v0-1-2-first-stable-release-plus-a-website/
<brainwash> knome: are there plans to switch to a different screen locker?
<knome> brainwash, no
<brainwash> the linked one looks weird :)
<knome> sure... it's a very new one
<knome> just keeping an eye on what others do
<brainwash> they reinvent the wheel :>
<knome> if you haven't noticed, that happens a lot around
<brainwash> especially with screen lockers
<jjfrv8> ochosi, thanks, I'll redo the screenshots and revise the notes.
<ochosi> jjfrv8: thanks, and sorry for the additional work :/
<jjfrv8> np, I had forgotten about Parole being an exception
<jjfrv8> ochosi, since I've got to redo the screenshots anyway, question for you: are the default settings shown in the existing shots xubu-specific?
<jjfrv8> I thought there might be some value in showing the defaults, but only if they were universal. 
<jjfrv8> Otherwise, perhaps I should show some more realistic settings, especially making the battery vs. powered ones different.
<ochosi> jjfrv8: feel free to show "realistic" settings. i don't think it's really important to show the defaults there, especially as those might change over time and we don't wanna redo the screenshots all the time
<jjfrv8> k
<dkessel> ochosi: want to schedule the next meeting?
<ochosi> dkessel: indeed, thanks for the reminder, i shall do that now
<ochosi> elfy: around? what would be a good time for you?
<elfy> generally post 1800UTC 
<elfy> but there's not much I need to be involved in atm I'd say - probably more useful to do it for other people 
<ochosi> hm, ok
<elfy> well - there's not :)
<elfy> if we were ontop of alpha2 perhaps it would be different ;)
<ochosi> dkessel: done
<dkessel> thanks. sunday might even work :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: oh nice, they have mentioned menulibre on the Linux Action Show
<brainwash> which reminded me of bug 1361143
<ubottu> bug 1361143 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Please release menulibre-2.0.6 to trusty" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1361143
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-02
<bluesabre> Unit193: any idea what would make quilt not see debian/patches/series ?
<bluesabre> ./xfce4-session-4.11.0/debian/patches/series
<bluesabre> ./xfce4-session-4.11.1/debian/patches/series
<bluesabre> works in 4.11.0, not in 4.11.1
<bluesabre> makes me think I'm crazy
<bluesabre> can you take a look (quilt push -a)?
<bluesabre> smdavis.us/tmp/quilt_is_crazy.tar.gz
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hardly had to look, xfce4-session-4.11.0/.pc/
<bluesabre> drat
<Unit193> bluesabre: Don't worry, it's voodoo to me too.
<bluesabre> ok, got the new xfce4-session packaged up, no immediately noticeable issues
<Unit193> Any benefit?
<bluesabre> "- Use pkexec for xfsm-shutdown (Bug 9952)" could be interesting
<ubottu> bug 9952 in udev (Ubuntu) "an error msg with udev when boot up" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/9952
<bluesabre> xfce bug 9952
<ubottu> xfce bug 9952 in General "UPower >= 0.99.0 no longer does hibernate and suspend" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9952
<bluesabre> forestpiskie: xfce4-power-manager 1.4.2 and xfce4-session 4.11.1 uploaded to vivid.  Both should be painless :)
<bluesabre> brainwash: yes, it was on the Linux Action Show in its first iteration :)
 * Unit193 stabbity stabs bluesabre.
 * bluesabre bleedity bleeds
<Unit193> bluesabre: Where'd you get this xfpm package anyway?
<bluesabre> ?
 * bluesabre packaged it himself
<Unit193> Or, did you drop all the deps from 4.11 to 4.10?  The stabbing was for systemd-services again.
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> I really need to remember to remove that
<bluesabre> remind me tomorrow and I will upload ubuntu2
<bluesabre> that was the unstable 1.4.1 -> vivid -> 1.4.2 packaging
 * bluesabre included the debian changelog
<Unit193> libupower-glib-dev (<< 0.99) => libupower-glib-dev (>= 0.99)  and all the xfce packages went from 4.11.x to 4.10.  I was just wondering if that was intentional.
<bluesabre> yeah, upower 0.99 in vivid
<bluesabre> and xfce deps were lowered to 4.10 in unstable
<bluesabre> http://packages.ubuntu.com/vivid/libupower-glib-dev
<Unit193> Cool, cool. :)
 * Unit193 really isn't stalking bluesabre.
<bluesabre> dropping systemd-services now
 * bluesabre feels stalked
<bluesabre> Unit193: Merry (early) Christmas!
<bluesabre> xfce4-power-manager (1.4.2-0ubuntu2) vivid; urgency=medium
<bluesabre>   * debian/control: Drop depends on systemd-services, virtual package
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hah, nice! :P
<Unit193> Bumped PPA stuffs too.
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> you'll want to keep upower < 0.99
<bluesabre> for trusty/utopic
<Unit193> Check -verbose.
<bluesabre> cheater
<bluesabre> XP
<Unit193> Well, has to work for trusty, utopic, and vivid.
<bluesabre> time for bed, back tomorrow
<Unit193> OK.  Sleep tight and danke.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Wild guess, you didn't look at the pending merges from xfpm/xfce4-session?
<Noskcaj> Deleting mine now
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: didn't have a notification that you had packaged the updated xfpm/xfce4-session
<bluesabre> did you subscribe me to the merges?
<bluesabre> just drop me a ping on here as you have merges ready... I usually don't go looking for them.  If there's anything that was still in the queue for me to upload, let me know - finally getting back into the groove of things
<Unit193> Mornin' bluesabre.
<bluesabre> brainwash: if all goes as planned, will get menulibre-2.0.6 uploaded to trusty-proposed tonight
<bluesabre> hey Unit193
<bluesabre> want me to upload inxi tonight? :)
<Unit193> Mmm, should be able to change it for Ubuntu, sure.
<bluesabre> k
<Unit193> If ye think it's worth it.
<bluesabre> I find inxi to be pretty cool, so yeah, :)
<bluesabre> heading out now, yesterday's commute was crap, so getting a head start
<bluesabre> have a good one
<Unit193> Good luck.
<brainwash> bluesabre: that's good news :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-03
<brainwash> bluesabre: bug 1398619 might affect gtk-greeter and xfce4-indicator-plugin
<ubottu> bug 1398619 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "No indicators displayed when systemd-sysv is installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1398619
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/vivid/xfce4-indicator-plugin/vivid/view/head:/debian/patches/01_upstart-init.patch
<brainwash> ali1234: ^
<brainwash> I guess we should add our packages to the lp report, or?
<Unit193> Just call `upstart` (/sbin/upstart)
<brainwash> sure, that's the solution
<Unit193> For now.
<bluesabre> yeah, go ahead and add them
<brainwash> ok
<bluesabre> subscribed myself to the bug
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://paste.openstack.org/show/XJNXGBgvoZc0AUdYiEG2 diff for easy reading, dsc is in /source/
<bluesabre> made sense until "dsc is in /source/"
<Unit193> Too lazy to type https://sigma.unit193.net/source/inxi_2.2.16-0ubuntu1.dsc
<bluesabre> danke
<Unit193> Bitte schÃ¶n.
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://paste.openstack.org/show/mO9KSCpRfq6wwaVRzgee/ and https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-indicator-plugin_2.3.2-0ubuntu3.dsc
 * bluesabre gives Unit193 a cookie
<Unit193> Hopefully that's what you want. :D
<Unit193> And cookies. :D
<Unit193> Anything else to look into tonight?
<bluesabre> not to my knowledge. doing a spot check on menulibre for trusty then uploading it and going to bed
<brainwash> bluesabre: want to apply the patch from bug 1211933 ? it's a very simple patch and now is the right time to test it
<ubottu> bug 1211933 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "mkinitramfs blows up on casper dependency" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1211933
<brainwash> before we get closer to 16.04 :)
<brainwash> Unit193: do you agree that the patch is harmless? ^
<Unit193> Heey, I was staying out of that just fine and dandy. :(
<brainwash> can no one review this patch? :D
<Unit193> I am actually looking into it though. :P
<Unit193> Of course, I defer to Sean.
<brainwash> thanks
<Unit193> Right, so I'm in full agreement with that bug, we should not be doing that where it is and we should in fact do it after prereqs.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Please commit that patch.
<brainwash> great!
<brainwash> Unit193: oh, yet another systemd 217 upload
<Unit193> brainwash: Yep, there sure was.  Can you also mark that as affecting  ubuntustudio-live  ?
<brainwash> does it affect ubuntu studio?
<Unit193> That'd be why I asked, yep.
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/vivid/ubuntustudio-live/vivid/view/head:/livedvd/ubiquity/target-config/48ubuntustudio_maybe_ubiquity
<brainwash> ah
<brainwash> just found it also
<Unit193> Mythbuntu is fine.
<brainwash> I tend to forget about ubuntu studio, but we actually share many bugs :)
<Unit193> I tend to forget about Mythbuntu more, or the fact it uses Xfce at the very least.
<skellat> unit193, bluesabre: Are we going to have to introduce a "Conflicts" or "Breaks" in packaging for either xubuntu-meta or xubuntu-default-settings to ensure we don't have things like systemd-sysv let alone anything else from The War co-installed with systemd in the end this cycle?
<Unit193> Erm, we should not be conflicting with systemd-sysv, that'd be joining "the war" and playing very poorly.
<skellat> Unit193: The thread over on ubuntu-devel where people were bringing up Devuan had a few folks noting that choice of init hasn't really been part of Ubuntu or its flavors.  I'm just wondering if it is a social decision we need to fall in line with in terms of what we support or not at this point.
<Unit193> We already have to go and fix things because of Unity and GNOME, there's no why trying to choose what init system we use and differing from the rest of the core systems would make any sense whatsoever, it'd just add a lot more work that we don't have the manpower for.  There's also the indicators breaking every release, the wayland/mir/xorg thing, and who knows what else.  It would make about as 
<Unit193> much sense as trying to support sysvinit, and adding init scripts to every package missing them and supporting it for the next n releases.
<Unit193> The indicator and user session should be about the only thing that will matter, and I haven't heard anything abuot changing user sessions yet.
<Unit193> (Indicators is heavily related to user sessions for that matter.)
<skellat> This is why I'm asking after reading that bug traffic relative to indicators and systemd-sysv
<skellat> More explanation is better than just staring at the driveway pondering how to best salt it to fend off ice build up
 * skellat has been getting pelted with hail and freezing rain today
<brainwash> skellat: people who care about which init system is being used most likely don't use ubuntu anyway :)
<Luyin> why does anybody care about the init system 'most used'? I'd rather care about which is fulfilling my requirements best.
<brainwash> used, most likely
<brainwash> we just make sure that things don't break and if they do, we'll fix them
<Luyin> oh, my mistake, brainwash. I thought 'likely' belonged to 'don't â¦ anyway', which doesn't make much sense now I come to think of it
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, mrpouit: Do we still need the 01_fix-48-migration.patch in notes-plugin? It's our only diff
<Cykik> locked myself out of root; any tips?
<knome> Cykik, first, you shouldn't have a root account, second, the support channel is #xubuntu
<Cykik> hi knome.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-04
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: good question... I'll poke it a bit and see
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thanks for committing that.
<brainwash> bug 1399048
<ubottu> bug 1399048 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Update to 3.14" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1399048
<bluesabre> so it begins
<bluesabre> :)
<ObrienDave> another cycle?
<ObrienDave> or another day? ;P
<bluesabre> yes, that too
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> talking about the gtk-3.14 update
<brainwash> bluesabre: the xfce4 meta package recommends desktop-base, which makes sense in debian. should we change it to suggests in ubuntu?
<brainwash> the package installs debian background, grub + plymouth theme and so on
<brainwash> bug 1080865
<ubottu> bug 1080865 in xfce4 (Ubuntu) "Debian instead of Ubuntu grub splash" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1080865
<brainwash> or just keep things untouched and mark it as won't fix?
<Unit193> Changes sync => delta, I wouldn't.
<brainwash> yes, that's the problem
<brainwash> but this meta package does not get changes very often
<brainwash> changed
<Unit193> (And desktop-base has/will have some pretty sweet artwork. :P )
<knome> or create a new package for xfce4 to depend on that introduces ubuntu/xfce art
<Unit193> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianArt/Themes/Lines if that one wins for example, I can see myself using it. :P
<brainwash> it should use the default ubuntu grub/plymouth theme and Xfce desktop background
<brainwash> if desktop-base is not present
<brainwash> well, that's what I would expect
<Unit193> -base stuff is hardly seen.
<Unit193> Also, we plan on keeping xfce-4.12 updated?
<knome> i'd hope we could land it soon
<knome> there has been talks about releasing before the end of the year
<brainwash> release without alpha, beta and rc phase?
<knome> i don't know the details.
<knome> but to be fair, there has been a lot of preparation time..
<brainwash> you are right, but with the recent amount of new commits there should be some time frame to test everything
<brainwash> for potential regressions
<knome> i'm not the one who decides on releasing, i've just heard that discussion
<knome> so please follow the discussion and raise the question in #xfce-dev if it seems like things are progressing too fast
<brainwash> ok then
<Unit193> And the mailing list a bit too.
<knome> yep
<ET_Warrior> Hello.
<knome> hello
<ET_Warrior> So I have to make an account at the launchpad, on Ubuntu One to help contribute/
<ET_Warrior> ?
<ET_Warrior> Not a problem... :~)
<knome> it's not a hard requirement, but it helps with a lot of things
<knome> and welcome
<ET_Warrior> I love Linux so far, but I have had some troubles with it... but no bigey, as it's part of the learning process.
<knome> have you got an idea what would you like to contribute with?
<ET_Warrior> I actually just installed Xubuntu on Tuesday I believ.e
<knome> s/with/to/
<ET_Warrior> I'd like to help with some bugs I'm having, and I could help translate to.
<knome> if you have a spare machine (or are willing to do vm tests), you can help with testing the newest releases and application versions
<knome> otherwise, simply filing the bugs and following up with information the developers as is good
<knome> translations are handled here and there; are you familiar with this list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Package_translations yet?
<ET_Warrior> I do have a spare machine... but it's "legacy hardware".
<ET_Warrior> Thanks.
<knome> that's okay
<ET_Warrior> Xubuntu should run alright on it though.
<knome> either elfy, slickymaster or me can give you more information on testing (though i'm going to be off soon)
<ET_Warrior> I wanted to get a 1 GB RAM stick from my family member that he'd never used, and put it into my old XP system with only 512MB of RAM.
<knome> xubuntu running fine is a good start; what we test with our image and package testing is that NEW application versions and core stuff works with xubuntu
<ET_Warrior> Alright... I apologize if I'm unfamiliarized with some terminology, like I said, I'm a bit of a Linux newbie.
<knome> that's okay :)
<knome> the image testing pretty much means you'll install xubuntu on the machine once per test
<knome> so it's not suitable for a machine that's used daily
<ET_Warrior> Yeah, I don't really use that machine at all... I was going to try to get Q4OS, on it, but I failed.
<ET_Warrior> Xubuntu, I'm so happy that I was led to it.
<knome> there's quite a bunch of good information at http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/#testing for testing
<ET_Warrior> It seems it's exactly what I was looking for in a Linux.
<knome> glad to hear that :)
<ET_Warrior> I wanted a plain, and simple linux, that's modest, and yet is stable, and fast, and has a strong community.
<ET_Warrior> But at the same time, I wanted a more "pretty" looking linux.
<ET_Warrior> Xubuntu is it.
<knome> great!
<ET_Warrior> And I love the fact that Linux is a thriving community of people wanting to help one-another.
<ET_Warrior> And everything for the most part is open-source.
<ET_Warrior> How it should be!
<ET_Warrior> :D
<knome> i'm going to run off for some time now, but feel free to ask questions as you go; i'll answer when i'm back if you're still here, and/or others are able to assist you to get started as well
<knome> thanks for the interest!
<ET_Warrior> Okay, sure.
<ET_Warrior> I understand.
<ET_Warrior> So lightweight! I'm only using 18% memory.
<Unit193> Logan_: Any chance I can trick you into uploading a git snapshot into vivid?  Current version is 100% useless as the API changed: Debian #770133.
<ubottu> Debian bug 770133 in gcalcli "gcalcli 2.x is no longer compatible with google's api" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/770133
<ochosi> evening everyone
 * ochosi tried to follow while being away
<ochosi> but let me know if there are important news i might've missed
<Unit193> ochosi: Still not sure if it's of interest to you, but I built a package with the patch from Xfce: #11255.
<ubottu> xfce bug 11255 in General "[Xfce4-datetime-plugin] close window and deactive button on focus-out event" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11255
<ochosi> oh nice
<Unit193> It's there, I don't care really if Xubuntu wants it or not, but I needed it. :P
<ochosi> added to the buglist
<ochosi> need to figure out who has push rights there
<ochosi> thing is, we don't use it in xubuntu anymore
<ochosi> but still, it seems like a good idea to implement that
<Unit193> We don't?
<Unit193> Huh.
<ochosi> we use the panel-internal clock plugin, unless i'm mistaken
<Unit193> OK, I'm just confused now. :D
<Unit193> ochosi: Right, so xfce4-datetime-plugin wasn't even installed on this computer, was just the other one.  Seems it was leftover from something...  So, while the patch is very handy, 'Clock' is default and a replacement.
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> and clock doesn't have that problem
<Unit193> No, so there's only minor differences, unless that other bug that I linked to gets fixed, then I'm back to datetime. :P
<Unit193> So is it still worth uploading the patched version?
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> but it'd also be nice getting it merged upstream
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-datetime-plugin_0.6.2-2ubuntu2.dsc
<etwarrior> ochosi: Hey, I see you're in this chat too!
<ochosi> well yes
<etwarrior> So you're a developer then?
<ochosi> ypu
<ochosi> yup
<etwarrior> I would like to help with the Xubuntu project myself.
<Unit193> ochosi is the Xubuntu project lead.
<etwarrior> Oh wow! Haha.
<ochosi> yeah, read it in the backlog etwarrior 
<ochosi> new contributors are always more than welcome
<etwarrior> Nice to meat you.
<etwarrior> meet*
<ochosi> i've just been away for a few days, so i'm still catching up on things
<etwarrior> Well I can certainly try to help with the project... I personally like the Xfce, and even the LXDE environments, and the MATE one is okay too.
<etwarrior> But I went with Xubuntu.
<etwarrior> I have a few things written down here that I was having trouble with.
<ochosi> you mean bugs or missing features?
<etwarrior> Just some bugs I'm haivng.
<etwarrior> having*
<etwarrior> A lot of them seem to have been sorted out actually, haha... probably the updates that fixed them.
<etwarrior> Sometimes if I return to my computer from sleep mode (since it's a laptop), I have to force restart because I get a black screen.
<ochosi> yeah, there are issues with suspend
<ochosi> are you on a macbook?
<Unit193> Is this the ll bug?
<ochosi> no
<ochosi> even without ll, i saw that black screen bug on a macbook
<etwarrior> Yes.
<etwarrior> I was on a macbook.
<etwarrior> or am
<etwarrior> I think that I sent a report in.
<etwarrior> So you must've got it?
<ochosi> probably, but i get so much bugmail these days, i don't have enough time to check them "all"
<etwarrior> I would like to help with translating too...
<etwarrior> Uhh, is there a way to use other characters on Linux; I'm sure there is..
<etwarrior> Je parle francais.
<etwarrior> but the 'c' has to have the cedile on it.
<ochosi> yeah, check the keyboard layout
<etwarrior> I see..
<etwarrior> Je parle francais un peu.
<etwarrior> So just a bit, but I think that I understand it good enough that I could help.
<knome> etwarrior, did you check the link a pasted to you about translations?
<etwarrior> Uhh... if I did, I lost it; but I don't know if I did click it or not..
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Package_translations
<etwarrior> Thanks.
<etwarrior> C'est lire-marked. ;Â¬)
<etwarrior> It's book-marked... haha.
<etwarrior> marked isn't the french, not sure what it would be.
<knome> bookmark is the correct term
<etwarrior> No, but lire = book, but I didn't know the French term for marked.
<knome> right... maybe translating to french isn't your forte then :P
<ochosi> etwarrior: errrm, "livre" = book "lire" = read
<etwarrior> Oh, right... 
<etwarrior> Like I said, my French isn't 100%.
<etwarrior> I understand how the language works a lot better than I did though.
<etwarrior> The adjective comes after the word... so they don't say *dark* green, they say "vert fonce'"
<etwarrior> with the e accent grave
<etwarrior> So "green dark"
<etwarrior> or green [that is] dark.
<knome> for discussing french grammar and other curiosities, we have #xubuntu-offtopic 
<etwarrior> Okay, thanks.
<etwarrior> This is a developer's channel... you're right; I apologize for going off-topic.
<knome> that's fine.
<slickymaster> evening guys
<knome> hello slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hey knome
<slickymaster> I saw we have a new potential contributor
<slickymaster> that's good
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-05
<matte88_> hello everybody!
<Unit193> Howdy.
<matte88_> guys I'd like to contribute to xubuntu development but I don't know where to start. I'm a young computer engineer (I'm 25, got my MS last year) and it would be great to write some code for xubuntu. Can you please address me? I've already an account on launchpad, created a gpg key, etc (followed the tutorial)
<knome> hello
<knome> on the coding front, xubuntu doesn't have *too many* applications built/maintined "in-house"
<knome> but we do rely much on xfce, and work with them too
<knome> so maybe that would be a good place to start... in addition to the obvious "work on something that scratches your own itch"
<knome> that said, is there a specific area where/app which you would like to help with?
<matte88_> not really right now..I think that it would be great to understand how do you guys work for now
<matte88_> then I'll figure it out :)
<matte88_> I mean it would be great to work on some core functions, but I'm aware that's early right now
<Noskcaj> matte88_, Maybe take a look at the xfce bugzilla
<knome> well, most of our "core" functions come from xfce, so that's the place to contribute for those
<knome> anyway, to get to know people, hang out in this channel, take part in meetings (next one is on sunday, 18UTC)
<Noskcaj> and of the apps that aren't xfce, most are written in python and maintained by bluesaber (our head of developement)
<knome> and/or ochosi, and others
<matte88_> great! what will be the topic of the meeting?
<knome> matte88_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes might be useful to get some idea what's going on as well, and for development things, i can specifically encourage reading the "Release cycle" subsection; for an idea of the scope, you should look at the "Packages related to Xubuntu" subsection
<knome> meetings cover anything and everything that relates to xubuntu
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings always has the agenda for the next meeting (which is empty right now though)
<knome> but those who can, take part on the meeting and update on what they have been working on (and if they have cleared any of the open action items assigned to them)
<knome> outside that, it's mostly freeform
<knome> (even that is pretty freeform, but that we do every time)
<matte88_> sounds good. I'll try to meet you on sunday them
<matte88_> *then
<knome> the meetings page also has the minutes from the last meeting, so you can get an idea how it goes
<knome> welcome! :)
<knome> and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask on this channel or the mailing list, people are friendly and willing to help
<Unit193> Except me, I'm the local jerk.
<matte88_> that's awesome! 
<knome> mm... beef jerky
 * knome bites Unit193 
<matte88_> Unit193 you helped me a lot on the other channel!!
<matte88_> gotta go now..see you soon guys, and thank you very much one more time
<knome> matte88_, you'll learn how people have different sense of humor too. Unit193 has those weird, submissibe jokes.
<knome> submissive too.. :P
<Unit193> Self deprecating.
<knome> now there's only Unit192 left.
<knome> he became scared of our dry jokes :(
<knome> "got... to... get.. OUT!"
 * skellat is reminded you need a particular sense of humor for developing Xubuntu
<knome> that helps.
<knome> i would say it's obligatory to have ANY sense of humor.
<skellat> Well, I got lost in trying to figure out how to respond to somebody who really wanted to contribute to *buntu overall but apparently had no luck signing the Code of Conduct let alone using GnuPG
<skellat> I just couldn't find a way to not sound cold in replying to that person's situation
<knome> maybe they could have helped in a non-technical way
<knome> granted, some people have a strong will, but not the skills
<knome> and that's okay as well :)
<skellat> Yep
<skellat> Are we actually talking about anything really big in Sunday's meeting?
<skellat> The agenda is otherwise blank
<knome> i doubt so
<knome> but who knows?
<skellat> I can't promise I won't have the lights go out on me this time
<skellat> Though I will say I've got *very* good UPS units that kept me online when we did have the power outage
<knome> well you know, it's just a meeting... :)
<knome> with weirdos from the internet, that is
<skellat> Yep
<Unit193> knome: That's quite the truth right there, think the same way. :P
<knome> it isn't quite the truth, it is the truth :P
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/z61xQGIifwtHm0o0AxJD/ just seen in -devel.
<slickymasterWork> my vivid box is upstart free
<ochosi> those of you who run vivid already, are there any grave issues?
<ochosi> i'd like to do a real install this weekend, ideally before the weekend
<ochosi> err, before the meeting
 * ochosi needs coffee
<slickymasterWork> other than bug 1399131, nothing special so far ochosi
<ubottu> bug 1399131 in thermald (Ubuntu) "package thermald 1.3-7 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1399131
<Unit193> ochosi: Wonderful!  OK, so do we care about -hamster-plugin at all?
<Unit193> I have no real hardware installs, waiting until after A1.
<ochosi> ok, thanks slickymasterWork 
<ochosi> Unit193: i always forget what that plugin was all about...
<slickymasterWork> np ochosi 
<ochosi> do you have it packaged already? then i'll just install and test it quickly
<Unit193> ochosi: Elaborate time tracker, so it'd seem.  Feel free to bump the question to bluesabre.
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> so you don't have a package for it yet then?
<ochosi> generally a time-tracker sounds useful
<Unit193> Of course, it's in extras, that's why I ask.
<Unit193> "Newest version on remote site is 1.6, local version is 1.2" is more specifically why I want to know, but nevertheless.
<ochosi> ok, i'll test it now
<ochosi> and sorry for not just looking instead of asking :)
<Unit193> Meh, it works.
<Unit193> You had me now, easier to ask.  Been there.
<ochosi> woot, that pulls in "hamster-indicator"?
<ochosi> hm, looks sorta useful to me
<ochosi> so it's under active development right now?
<Unit193> Should be hamster-applet, actually.  And yeah.
<ochosi> well hamster-applet too
<Unit193> -applet recommends -indicator, it's dumb like that.
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> silly
<Unit193> It's part of the merge from Debian, how silly.
<Unit193> * Recommends hamster-indicator (LP: #1049078) - Jamie Strandboge
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1049078 in hamster-applet (Ubuntu) "Should include hamster-indicator in its list of "Recommended packages"" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049078
<brainwash> ochosi: https://github.com/gottcode/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/issues is back
<ochosi> brainwash: i know
<elfy> ochosi: I've not seen any thing that would count as a grave issues in vivid, not seen anything more than piddling ones - but I don't suspend, use more than one monitor, run it on laptop 
<ochosi> ok, thanks elf
<ochosi> elfy: 
<elfy> welcome :)
<elfy> I hope that when you do that you'll report the image stuff on the tracker ;)
<Unit193> Well, new -hamster-plugin up anyway, can evaluate later I guess.
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce/+packages <--- hamster, that is.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-06
<brainwash> Noskcaj: bug 1308533 is fixed in utopic/vidid, right?
<ubottu> bug 1308533 in exo (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Non-english live-cd: some programs are in English although their name is in Non-english, and vice-versa" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308533
<brainwash> bluesabre: parole > xdg-screensaver resume > xset s default  causes bug 1363540
<ubottu> bug 1363540 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole resets screen timeout to 600 on exit" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1363540
<elfy> ochosi: ^^ and therein lies my mysterious screensaver keeps setting to 10 minutes \o/ 
<brainwash> elfy: can you confirm this part? "Also, it does not matter whether the option to prevent the screen saver is on or off in parole preferences."
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> ok, so we got two bugs, one in parole and one in xdg-screensaver
<elfy> actually there's a bug in xfpm as well
<elfy> parole sets to 600s - open pm, still set to never (here) you have to change time to foo - close pm, open pm to reset to Never (here) for it to actually set
<brainwash> so pm does not read the current timeout value
<brainwash> I cannot test it right now
<elfy> I guess not
<elfy> anyway - all that aside - I'm just glad I know what was causing it :)
<jjfrv8> ochosi, can you take another look at the powerman docs? I've updated the screenshots and filled in the Plugin section.
<jjfrv8> I really wanted to get a shot of an external device showing in the indicator dropdown but so far I've been unable to find any that show up.
<ochosi> elfy, brainwash thanks for unriddling that! should be fixable (e.g. by using xfce4-powerman instead of xdg-screensaver where available)
<elfy> ochosi: I was very pleased to see that bug - I thought I was going nuts :p
<ochosi> yeah, i can relate :)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: thanks a bunch, i'll check them out!
<elfy> ochosi: tomorrow at the meeting - I've got a forum council one at the same time in -meeting (which will be short) then one in another channel with the same people, but I'll try and keep up with in here - might take pings to get me though
<ochosi> ok, good to know
<ochosi> sorry, i wasn't aware of the forum council meeting, otherwise i'd have chosen a different hour
<elfy> that's ok :)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: cool, screenshots look great so far, guess only the devices are missing and then we can soon move this over to docs.xfce.org
<Noskcaj> brainwash, yeah
<Noskcaj> You can check by looking at the .deb size differences
<brainwash> Noskcaj: ok, I'll mark it as fixed
<brainwash> ochosi: fixing xdg-screensaver would be the right approach, it's just strange that no one else has noticed this issue yet (or reported it)
<ochosi> brainwash: not sure it is, tbh
<ochosi> it's a script, so it can't easily restore the settings
<ochosi> unless it saves them somewhere already
<brainwash> but is has to be fixed anyway, because other players depend on it too
<ochosi> can't remember, it's been too long that i looked at this crappy script
<brainwash> you can store values in a tmp file
<ochosi> yeah, i guess others do that too
<ochosi> well frankly the last time i tried to fix it upstream, i just ended up getting not so helpful replies
<ochosi> so feel free to give it a stab yourself
<brainwash> the bug in the parole code needs to be fixed too
<brainwash> it seems to run xdg-screensaver regardless of the "prevent screensaver while playing stuff" setting
<ochosi> possible, i haven't looked in a while
<brainwash> fairly easy to fix, maybe I'll take a look
<brainwash> where are the new people who want to contribute? :)
<ochosi> yeah, where are they?
<brainwash> ochosi: and regarding the file manager entry showing up twice in the whisker search page, how about highlighting entries from the settings category? something like "File Manager"  + " - Settings" -> "File Manager - Settings"
<brainwash> maybe in italic
<brainwash> would be a feature request for gottcode
<brainwash> this way we won't need to rename or hide anything
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-07
<bluesabre> hey all, fun bug(s) there
<Unit193> Howdy.
<ochosi> in case you're referring to the xdg-screensaver one, then yes
<ochosi> "fun" times
<ochosi> but at least now we know what is messing with the blank-time
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Not sure if you saw, but I pulled the patch for datetime to deactivate when it loses focus, no idea if you want that uploaded.
<ochosi> Unit193: there's another patch in datetime-master btw
<Unit193> ochosi: Looking at it as we speak even.  You may have accidentally a word.
<Unit193> Or, -ly.
<brainwash> ochosi: do you like the whisker search page idea? dynamically adding something like " - Settings" to entries from the settings category
<brainwash> if no, then I won't bother requesting it
<brainwash> the user searches for "Filemana" and whisker menu returns "File Manager" + "File Manager - Settings"
<ochosi> yeah, actually i think it'd be better to just show descriptions in that case
<ochosi> or decide to not show thunar-settings at all
<brainwash> yeah, showing the description is another solution
<ochosi> showing the category is just rarely useful
<brainwash> only in the search page
<brainwash> the settings category is special :)
<brainwash> I'm thinking about making it subtle, like using italic font for the added " - Settings" part
<brainwash> or grey color
<brainwash> mmh, it somehow feels like this should be very easy to implement
<brainwash> bluesabre: you do have a multi monitor setup, or?
<brainwash> bluesabre: starting with 14.10 we received some reports which describe this crash https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11350
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11350 in Xfsettingsd "xfsettingsd crash on changes of monitor configurataion: BadRRCrtc (serial 2615 error_code 148 request_code 140 minor_code 21)" [Major,New]
<brainwash> these bug reporters unplug the external screen which triggers a crash of xfsettingsd
<brainwash> a common use case I'd think
<bluesabre> brainwash: yes, I've seen that, and have a proposed fix here: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11107#c7
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11107 in Xfsettingsd "xfsettingsd resets TV mode to NULL on power cycle" [Normal,New]
<bluesabre> I'll probably go ahead and commit that fix, then figure out why it doesn't actually fix the bug its linked to
<bluesabre> brainwash: at home I have a single monitor setup, dual at work (running trusty there)
<bluesabre> Unit193: haven't had a chance to look at that yet, but if you have the fix, I'll upload it
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> http://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-datetime-plugin_0.6.2-2ubuntu2.dsc fixes it so it's like the clock plugin, I only pulled the patch from bugzilla, which was later committed.  There's another commit that makes it work better with the new hiding option too, if you/we care?
<bluesabre> actually, since we don't ship that one anymore, its not in the packageset
<bluesabre> maybe we can convince logan to upload it :)
<bluesabre> I really need to request an xfce packageset
<bluesabre> I'll try to get the paperwork together for that this weekend, I think its an obvious thing for us to have
<Unit193> Ah, then no worries.  Having you in the Xubuntu packageset has been extreamly helpful, keep it up!
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> And yes, Xfce makes sense, unless you just go for MOTU.
<bluesabre> we can cheat.... add it to the xubuntu-desktop recommends, wait til it hits packageset, upload it ;)
<Unit193> Or suggests? :P
<bluesabre> yeah, or that :P
<Unit193> We have the clock plugin, which is nearly functionally the same.
<bluesabre> I plan to apply for MOTU this cycle, once life settles down a bit and I am done moving
<Unit193> Whichever gets the gsimplecal like feature (http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10202) is the one I'm going to vote for. :P
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10202 in General "Display multiple timezones" [Enhancement,New]
<Unit193> Awesome!\
<bluesabre> but I want to get the packageset going if possible, so we can just add more of you guys as you step up to bat :)
<Unit193> I stepped up, now I send lots more uploads to you! :----D
<Unit193> ..And keep sending off others to Debian.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I'm happy to sponsor what I can
<Unit193> And I still try to make it easy.  How was the application process anyway?
<bluesabre> for packageset?
<bluesabre> pretty painless reall
<bluesabre> y
<Unit193> Sounds like the worst of it is updating the wiki and the meeting.  Finding sigs isn't fun, but not too hard one would hope.
<bluesabre> yeah, lots of writing and bugging folks like dholbach
<bluesabre> and Logan_
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> looks like those two were my endorsements, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeanDavis/DeveloperApplication
<Unit193> I may be able to trick Lo gan into it, but not so sure about anyone else.
<bluesabre> I'll endorse, not sure if that carries any weight :)
<bluesabre> give me more things to upload :D
<Unit193> http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=Unit+193&sponsoree_search=name  I sure will!
<bluesabre> but for now, going to go slack off... be back in the morning :)
<bluesabre> nice!
<Unit193> Have fun!
<Logan_> Unit193: who is Lo gan
<Unit193> 'lo again!
<Logan_> :P
<Unit193> Logan_: Got the thing I pinged you about in Debian, but experimental so had to requestsync it. :P
<Logan_> jog my memory
<Logan_> this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcalcli/+bug/1399800
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1399800 in gcalcli (Ubuntu) "Sync gcalcli 3.1-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> gcalcli's api change
<Unit193> Err, Google's API change, right.  That.
<Logan_> one sec
<Unit193> Yey!  Danke.
<Logan_> Unit193: synced
<Unit193> Danke.
<Logan_> bitte
<Unit193> And as that's the only simple one, that's enough for tonight. \o/
<brainwash> ali1234: you wanted to add a comment to bug 1087242 (that's the reason why I've subscribed you)
<ubottu> bug 1087242 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "XFWM4 not disabling the compositor effects on some fullscreen apps" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087242
<brainwash> about fullscreen windows which are actually windowed, or something like that
<ali1234> ah... i actually learned a bit more about that the other day
<ali1234> xfwm only unredirects override redirect fullscreen windows for some reason
<ali1234> most fullscreen windows aren't override redirect, this puts them above all other windows
<brainwash> the app has to set this property?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> technically any app can set override redirect on any window, because X11
<brainwash> oh..
<ali1234> but norally the app does it
<ali1234> http://tronche.com/gui/x/xlib/window/attributes/override-redirect.html
<brainwash> maybe add an option to always do this regardless of what the app wants?
<ali1234> would probably be better to just make xfwm unredirect windows even if they aren't override redirect
<ali1234> this will cause stacking bugs though
<ali1234> unredirect is a bit of a hack unfortunately, and xfwm alread has many hacks...
<brainwash> and it requires even more hacks
<ochosi> !team | sorry about the meeting-time mixup, but i can't make it at 18UTC as scheduled. details sent to ML: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-December/010495.html
<ochosi> hmpf, well that didn't work
<knome> ubottu, ping
<ubottu> pong
<ubottu> pong!
<ochosi> Unit193: ping
<ochosi> !factoid
<ubottu> Hi! I'm #xubuntu-devel's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi | Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins | Bot channels and general info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots | Make a clone of me: /msg ubottu botclone
<ochosi> ok, let's try this again...
<ochosi> !team | sorry about the meeting-time mixup, but i can't make it at 18UTC as scheduled. details sent to ML: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-December/010495.html
<ochosi> grr, ubottu you suck!
<ochosi> !team
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<ochosi> read above...
<ali1234> i don't think pipe works that way
<knome> ali1234, it does.
<brainwash> Unit193: are you familiar with xfce4-terminal.wrapper which is included in the debian/ubuntu package?
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/vivid/xfce4-terminal/vivid/view/head:/debian/xfce4-terminal.wrapper
<brainwash> it appears to be incomplete
<brainwash> I'll file a debian report
 * ochosi waves hello from vivid
 * ochosi heads over to the tracker...
 * elfy bets you only saw the black screen bug in the livesession
<ochosi> elfy: wrong bet, i didn't see that at all because i was hit by that COM32R bug
<ochosi> other than that, it's all good
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> elfy: while we're both around...
<ochosi> there are some features that have been recently implemented in xfce and some that i'm considering to push, but they all need some testing
<elfy> ok
<ochosi> the one thing is intelligent hiding of the panel
<elfy> yep - saw some chat about that 
<ochosi> i've fixed it up myself recently and i've also used it, but i think it needs more people using it to discover potential points of failure
<ochosi> would you be willing to test that out and to forward it to others who are testing?
<elfy> right - makes sense - availablity? 
<ochosi> (we'd make sure there's a PPA ofc)
<ochosi> if testing goes well, i'd talk to andrzejr to get a dev-release so we can roll it into 15.04
<elfy> okey doke - do that and I'll surely add it here - once it's available on ppa we can call on the m/l and testers lp contact too
<ochosi> cool, thanks!
<ochosi> just to be sure, is the concept of "intelligent hiding" implicitely understood these days..=
<ochosi> ?
<elfy> not completely - but I *think* it hides if something happens to be where the panel is showing
<elfy> then unhides when something is gone 
<ochosi> right, so the general idea is: the panel is visible unless something is in its way
<ochosi> "something" = usually a window (or an open menu from the panel)
<ochosi> so maximized window -> panel hidden
<elfy> yea - that was my understanding 
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> i think unity's side-panel does the same
<elfy> mmm - what if app not maximimised but positioned where panel is 
<ochosi> so that could be a good point of reference for testers who are familiar with unity
<ochosi> in that case it'd be hidden too
<ochosi> so if you move a window to the panel's position, it'll go away
<elfy> and yes - assuming that unity thing hasn't changed - unity panel autohides 
<elfy> ok - so yep - I understand what it should do then :)
<ochosi> but: this only reflects the position of the currently focused window
<ochosi> so if you switch from a maximized window to a non-maximized+non-overlapping window, it'll show u
<ochosi> p
<ochosi> the second feature (although there's more work ahead until i'm there) is corner-tiling for xfwm4 plus an option to make it maximize windows instead of tiling to 50% when dragged to the top of the screen
<elfy> ochosi: ok - so only hides for focussed window - useful 
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i think it's a useful feature
<elfy> and as for 2nd - yep - as long as there's an easy way for us to get it tested - just tell me when it's there :)
<elfy> same with anything really 
<ali1234> unity actually doesn't do this any more
<ali1234> they were never able to make it work correctly, so they disabled it by default
<ochosi> elfy: ok, thanks!
<ochosi> ali1234: ah, hm, interesting. i wonder why though, it's not like other docks don't get it right (like plank)
<ali1234> you could say the same thing about pretty much every feature of unity
<ochosi> i've never used it so i'd rather not
<elfy> ali1234: thanks - it's a while since I properly looked at ubuntu
<ochosi> but yeah, i do hope we got it right with xfce4-panel
<ali1234> for most of the problems with unity the answer is because the design is stupid
<ali1234> ie the design requires something that isn't actually possible, so rather than implement something else that is, they just leave the broken feature, because the design document is set in stone
<ochosi> jjfrv8: i've copied over the xfpm docs and eric_the_idiot is taking the two screenshots that show the devices, so i gues we can consider that done for now
<ochosi> thanks a lot for your effort - it's much appreciated!
<ochosi> here they are: http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/1.4/start
<ochosi> sorry folks, gotta run :/
<ochosi> in terms of the meeting, my updates would've been that a theme-rewrite will probably take place in the next weeks for Greybird and Numix (port to SASS to keep in sync with gtk upstream more easily)
<ochosi> this means we'll have to test them quite a bit i guess
<ochosi> and it'll also mean that the other themes will only receive bugfixes, if even
<ochosi> Orion, Albatross and Bluebird most likely won't be ported to SASS
<ochosi> (unless someone else does it)
<ochosi> also started some exploratory vivid testing and will continue with that, we still have quite a few bugs to be tackled
<ochosi> hopefully we can coordinate that sometime in the near future
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<ochosi> bluesabre: also, that python-indicate or python-libappindicator is still missing from our default install, so blueman is a trayicon instead of an indicator
 * ochosi out
<pleia2> doh, why did I wake up? :P
<pleia2> (ok ok, it's 10am, but my bed is so snuggly!)
<skellat> pleia2: Up for meeting we're apparently not having
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> I don't have anything this week anyway :)
<pleia2> anything == news from me re: team
<elfy> I assume we'll just shuffle quietly along and reschedule then :p
<Unit193> ochosi: Pong.
<Unit193> brainwash: At the very least, in a terminal run: /usr/bin/xfce4-terminal --version  vs  /usr/bin/xfce4-terminal.wrapper --version  What's the point of the wrapper exactly?
<Unit193> Ah, I think I see.
<brainwash> it's apparently needed in debian land
<Unit193> `xfce4-terminal echo foo bar` vs `xfce4-terminal.wrapper echo foo bar`: debian/xfce4-terminal.wrapper: stole code from gnome-terminal to match its behavior on '-x' and '-e'.                              closes: debian #548166
<ubottu> Debian bug 548166 in xfce4-terminal "xfce4-terminal: emailing by mutt from openoffice fails" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/548166
<brainwash> interesting
<brainwash> I guess I won't bother with this then
<Unit193> You're still correct though, it's missing options.
<ochosi> Unit193: i wanted to ask you whether you could update the daily panel build in your PPA so i can copy it to staging, so then elfy&co can test intelligent hiding
<ochosi> there was another fix i think after your latest snapshot (unless you've rebuilt again already)
<ochosi> also, i'm planning to merge this on top of xfwm4 master and then creating a patch-set from it. so if you could then throw that in a PPA so more people can do regression-testing before i propose to merge it to master, that'd be great!
<ochosi> anyway, gotta run off again, ttyl
<Unit193> Sure, can do.  Just not this second.  I'll get it tonight.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-11-30
<tsimonq2> well, got a good portion of them done
<flocculant> jjfrv8: remember the pavucontrol mute bug? here it's related to logitech webcam - same with someone else on https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93108 - same for you? If not could you comment on it :)
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 93108 in pavucontrol "Starting pavucontrol creates sound drop-out [related to C270/C910 Logitech webcam]" [Normal,Needinfo]
<cajuntechie> Hi everyone. Quick question: My C++ chops are really rusty (like 5-8 years old) but I want to get involved in the project. Any room for a pythong dev?
<jjfrv8> flocculant, will try to look into the pavucontrol thing later this evening.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-12-01
<bluesabre> evening all
<jjfrv8> flocculant, I no longer have the machine that exhibited the problem for me. However, it showed the problem even without a webcam.
<jjfrv8> I don't happen to have a webcam on hand right now but I can fetch one tomorrow and see if I can get one of my machines to misbehave with it.
<flocculant> jjfrv8: if you didn't have a webcam then that's enough I'd say
<flocculant> jjfrv8: rather - a usb audio device plugged in? certainly not having something of the like plugged in stops the issue for me
<bluesabre> flocculant: I actually have a usb sound card that I can test that theory with
<Nairwolf> hi, I've heard about a wallpapers contest, is it still available ? 
<Nairwolf> Hi, do you know if the contest for the next wallpaper is still opened ? 
<flocculant> bluesabre: that'd be good - though it is entirely possible that xonar sound card + usb thing is the issue - seems the sound card "Volume element Master has 8 channels. That's too much! I can't handle that!" and pulse has kittens :p
<flocculant> Nairwolf: re wallpaper thing - waiting for something to get to the m/l about it
<flocculant> it'll come up on the meeting Friday too
<flocculant> but afaik last time it was just loads of work for people - hence wanting volunteers to deal with it 
<Nairwolf> hi floculant, what are you saying by "something to get to the m/l about it" ? 
<flocculant> knome's got an action from the last meeting to do that - and ask for volunteers, pretty sure that if we don't get community help then we'll not be doing it
<Nairwolf> okay, maybe I will add my support and help
<Nairwolf> But the next community meeting is friday, right ?
<flocculant> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/20/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t22:42
<flocculant> but I suspect more in the logs
<Nairwolf> okay, thanks
<flocculant> and yes next meeting is Friday 12:00UTC
<Nairwolf> I don't know yet I will be here, because I'm at my school at this time
<Nairwolf> But I will see, I can't promise
<flocculant> yep
<Nairwolf> Tonight, I can't speak too much (I have to submit a report for someone before the end of the day), I will talk with knome later
<flocculant> I suspect we'll get a few meetings at more US time
<Nairwolf> I'm from France, so US time isn't great for me. It just that it's a Friday
<Nairwolf> But that's okay
<flocculant> aah right ok :)
<flocculant> they're not always a Friday nor at that time(ish) 
<Nairwolf> oh, that's right ! 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-12-02
<jjfrv8> flocculant, plugged in a webcam and still no drop-outs on either machine. Sorry!
<Logan> Unit193: do you want to merge in the new light-locker and see if it still works? ;P
<bluesabre> evening folks
<Unit193> Logan: It works now? :P  Might want bluesabre on that one.
<Unit193> bluesabre: owdy.
<bluesabre> Unit193: lol
<Logan> idk, I've never used it
<Unit193> I've used it before, but don't.  Nice job on the lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings sync, thanks.
<bluesabre> I'll take a look at it soon if you don't sync it before
<flocculant> jjfrv8: thanks :)
<bluesabre> knome: you mentioned that you knew where I could find some launchpad/ubuntu one login api resources... still have those? getting close to needing them in the wallpaper app
<pleia2> VPS update: jcastro is going to see if he can find us some vendor he has contacts with to donate something to us, we'll see
<pleia2> I stressed reliable and long term (I don't want to switch providers every year, I'd rather just pay for a VPS myself)
<flocculant> ty pleia2 :)
<flocculant> pleia2: I assume nothing came of community funds then :(
<pleia2> flocculant: "I think people should host where they want ... but if we can get them free stuff on official ubuntu providers, then ++"
<pleia2> so if our heart is set on paying and using community funds, that's ok
<flocculant> right - ok :)
<flocculant> as far as I'm concerned I would obviously +1 whichever option was best for those of *us* who actually deal with it :D
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> if we get put on some flakey free system or are restricted in any way, I'll call for revert ;)
<flocculant> yep :)
<ochosi> evening all
<flocculant> hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> hey flocculant 
<ochosi> good to hear that the gtk3 issue is fixd
<flocculant> how's things ?
<ochosi> busy busy :)
<ochosi> lotsa work during the day, little sleep during the nights ;)
<flocculant> yea - actually not sure if it's out for all tbh - lost track of that :)
<flocculant> aah yes - remember them days well :p
<flocculant> I'll try not to mention my lie-ins and naps in the afternoon 
<flocculant> I'm set up as a mentor for the googly thing - shall be setting some qa related tasks
<Unit193> G'luck!
<flocculant> we shall see - nothing particularly hard 
<ochosi> well lucky you, i have no time for sleepy times during the day
<flocculant> Unit193: just so you know - I'm going to cycle to the beginning of the meeting chairs - which is you next 
<ochosi> oh nice, googly mentor - congrats :)
<flocculant> then you can set one at stupid o'clock for micahg ... 
<Unit193> Bleh...
<flocculant> ochosi: got to talk to bluesabre about that - thinking that one task could be confirm and upstream some NEW bugs 
<flocculant> Unit193: thought you might think that :p
<Unit193> What if it's just me and him?  Record time? :D
<flocculant> well hopefully you could spend an hour sorting out the cd for core :p
<Unit193> Nope.webm
<flocculant> it'll soon be March then we can forget all about core till 2018 
<flocculant> though to be fair I've more or less forgotten about it in 2015 ;)
<Unit193> So has -devel.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-12-03
<bluesabre> evening all
<slickymaster> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey slickymaster 
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<bluesabre> flocculant: that's a pretty good idea
 * micahg wonders what flocculant has against micahg time
<Unit193> Likely he actually sleeps, I think he's weird.
<Unit193> micahg: Give me time ranges or bad days or something like that and I'll see what matches mine.
<micahg> meh, I only do that at 11:00 UTC :p
<flocculant> micahg: likely nothing at all if I was where you are :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: perhaps you could have a think about which to target for bugs - I was thinking about thunbugar :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: looking for and confirming bugs, yes?
<bluesabre> thunar would be a good place, lots of known bugs
<bluesabre> but so few people able to work with its code
<bluesabre> knome: do you know where I can find some lp/ubuntu one login examples?
<bluesabre> knome: I should have an initial version of the image submission/compare app ready tomorrow/this weekend
<flocculant> bluesabre: if you've another you could suggest instead then I'm easy to please :)
<knome> bluesabre, examples of the code?
<Unit193> knome: Your turn to poke stgraber, no?
<Unit193> slangasek?
<knome> some day.
<knome> oh, he's around
<Unit193> slang is active now at least.  And not sure if ochosi has poked him yet, but if not might be good.
<knome> did we use to ping him on #u-d?
<knome> or -release?
<Unit193> -devel.
<knome> done
<Unit193> Thanks.
<Unit193> (Figure multiple people poking has to help more than one.)
 * knome shrugs
#xubuntu-devel 2015-12-04
<flocculant> morning 
<flocculant> !team | meeting in 15 minutes or so
<ubottu> meeting in 15 minutes or so: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<bluesabre> wooooo
<flocculant> factoid's out of date 
<Unit193> Fixed.
<flocculant> Unit193 is so obviously "here" now :p
<flocculant> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Dec  4 12:00:33 2015 UTC.  The chair is flocculant. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<flocculant> who's here then :)
<bluesabre> o/
<flocculant> #topic Open action items
<flocculant> two of these
<flocculant> ochosi's got done
<flocculant> knome's not - I guess just keep that going - if he want's to get someone else to do it :)
<flocculant> #ACTION: knome to send a mail about volunteers to run the wallpaper contest #
<flocculant> #action knome to send a mail about volunteers to run the wallpaper contest #
<meetingology> ACTION: : knome to send a mail about volunteers to run the wallpaper contest #
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to send a mail about volunteers to run the wallpaper contest #
<flocculant> omg
<flocculant> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<bluesabre> #info: making steady progress on the wallpaper submission/voting tool, will be putting it up on github this weekend for others to pitch in
<flocculant> meetingbot needs winding up
<flocculant> bluesabre: we going straight to updates then :p
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> well
<bluesabre> thats an open action item
<bluesabre> (bluesabre to look into creating a submission/voting interface for the wallpaper contest)
<flocculant> oh yes - sorry bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> :p
<flocculant> headachy here
<flocculant> already :p
<flocculant> hi micahg_mobile :)
<bluesabre> sleepy here
<bluesabre> hey micahg_mobile 
<micahg_mobile> Hi 
<flocculant> #topic Updates and Announcements
<flocculant> let's get the announcements done first
<flocculant> #info gmusicbrowser removed from seed
<flocculant> that's that then
<flocculant> any updates from people not on the tracker 
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> its a slow start for m
<bluesabre> e
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> #info QA ran IRC testing session on sunday - thanks axkwi-dave 
<flocculant> #info QA will do another session between A2 and B1
<bluesabre> good job
<flocculant> bit more specific on packages 
<flocculant> #info VPS from pleia2 logs > jcastro is going to see if he can find us some vendor he has contacts with to donate something to us, we'll see
<bluesabre> nice
<flocculant> nothing else from me
<bluesabre> nothing here
<flocculant> micahg_mobile: got anything? 
<micahg_mobile> Not at this time
<flocculant> okey doke
<flocculant> #topic Discussion
<flocculant> #sub-topic
<flocculant> meh
<flocculant> #sub-topic Volunteers for running a 16.04 Community Wallpaper contest? 
<flocculant> #subtopic Volunteers for running a 16.04 Community Wallpaper contest? 
<flocculant> not much to do here - waiting on both meetingbot and knome 
<flocculant> #subtopic Ubuntu Software Center 
<flocculant> same type of thing unless anyone knows anything solid
<bluesabre> yeah, we might also be using the webapp I am working on for this, which should reduce the workload for submitting, validating, and voting on wps
<flocculant> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: SUBTOPIC
<bluesabre> #info we might also be using the webapp I am working on for this, which should reduce the workload for submitting, validating, and voting on wps
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - that'll help I suspect
<bluesabre> yes
<flocculant> but I guess the stumbling block will be managing to get volunteer(S) 
<bluesabre> yes, getting submissions, and then getting folks that want to vote
<micahg_mobile> What's the issue with USC?
<flocculant> bluesabre: anymore? 
<flocculant> micahg_mobile: sorry - got ahead of myself on that :D
<micahg_mobile> Ah, ok
<bluesabre> ready for usc
<flocculant> #subtopic Ubuntu Software Center 
<flocculant> micahg_mobile: if Ubuntu aren't going to use it for 16.04 will it get any sort of support? 
<flocculant> oh dear
<bluesabre> micahg_mobile: ubuntu is switching to gnome-software for 16.04 and beyond
<bluesabre> welp
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> he's gone ... 
<flocculant> wait for him to get back :p
<bluesabre> micahg_mobile: ubuntu is switching to gnome-software for 16.04 and beyond
<flocculant> micahg_mobile: if Ubuntu aren't going to use it for 16.04 will it get any sort of support? 
<flocculant> and if not - do we use something we know won't get support? 
<flocculant> or do we move as well
<micahg_mobile> Ah, yeah, we should follow Ubuntu if they're using a GTK package 
<bluesabre> that's my general feeling as well
<flocculant> right
<micahg_mobile> It's not python 3 ready and they're going python 3 only for the ISO (or at least trying to)
<flocculant> I don't know if eventually it needs a vote or one of those Tech Lead prerogative things - but no rush as long as we're aware
<micahg_mobile> Which reminds me, that might be nice for us too :)
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> that should help the iso bloat
<flocculant> at which point micahg_mobile can sort out the oversize warning :D
<micahg_mobile> Though, if our LTS support cycle is still only 3 years, we can wait until the next LTS as 2.7 is supported until 2020
<micahg_mobile> Heh, yeah, we'll need to discuss ISO size soon 
<flocculant> I can't imagine us making support length longer 
<Spass_> hello
<flocculant> hi Spass_ 
<bluesabre> hello Spass_ 
<micahg_mobile> We're 150MB over right now
<bluesabre> and that will probably get worse before it gets better
<micahg_mobile> Well, USC being swapped out might actually reduce it a little bit
<Spass_> is it true that mozilla is droping thunderbird?
<flocculant> Spass_: I heard something - but right now we're in the middle of a meeting :)
<Spass_> ups, sorry :)
<flocculant> I guess atm all we need to is watch for noises that the gnome app is actually available 
<knome> flocculant, re: mail for wallpaper contest, i'll push that forward when i have time
<flocculant> knome: yep :)
<flocculant> anyone want to spend more time on USC? not sure there's much we can do other than be aware - which we are
<bluesabre> that's it from me
<micahg_mobile> I'm good
<flocculant> #subtopic google code-in
<flocculant> #info QA added a couple of tasks for people to test iso and packages
<flocculant> bluesabre: what I'd really like to do is maybe add something along the lines of what I pinged you with
<bluesabre> flocculant: yes, is there a place where we are storing these tasks/ideas?
<flocculant> but happy not too if you think it's going to cause more trouble than it's worth :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: nope - I've just had them in my head :D
<micahg_mobile> Any GTK 3 porting needed?
<micahg_mobile> Or python 3
<knome> bluesabre, poke jose
<flocculant> bluesabre: http://pad.ubuntu.com/GCI
<bluesabre> knome: I'd like to get our list in a place then poke jose with ^ pad
<flocculant> poking jose won't help here 
<knome> aha
<knome> anyway, the deadline for the submissions from us is close
<flocculant> and we don't need to poke anyone else - I can add them - might need Nick to add someone like bluesabre as a mentor is all :)
<flocculant> deadline is 7th
<flocculant> but
<knome> he's (jose) been assigned to be in touch with the flavors
<flocculant> we can add tasks during the time it is live I am told
<knome> so i would be in touch with him about potential stuff incoming
<flocculant> knome: yes but rather pointless if there's someone in team using the m/l and in the channel :)
<flocculant> which is all stuff no-one really knows here - because it's only just come up :)
<knome> i just think it would be good/fair to be in touch with him as he's been poking me about this on PM
<knome> i just told him to join this channel too, but he's likely sleeping now
<flocculant> oh - I'll ping him in the channel about it then :)
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> in whatever channel, yeah
<knome> mostly just to say "we might have X"
<flocculant> bluesabre: that ^^ pad then 
<knome> so he's informed about it
<knome> and able to react to it when need be
<knome> and stuff
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: so I'll let you think about that :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: will do
<flocculant> anymore on that? 
<flocculant> anyone got anything else to bring up if not :)
<knome> i'll try to have some time to look the pad with thought
<knome> oh, it's not too much...
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> flocculant: nothing more from me
<knome> i'll try to figure out if we want something else then
<bluesabre> micahg_mobile must be on a train
<flocculant> knome: yea - it's sparse :p
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> knome: what we there thinking about was getting someone to confirm some new bugs and upstream them
<knome> yeah
<flocculant> just wondering about what package 
<micahg> no, just a crashy chat client
<flocculant> micahg: :)
<knome> what about screen locking problems and that stuff specifically?
<knome> bluesabre?
<bluesabre> knome: yes that could be beneficial
<flocculant> knome: sounds useful to me
<bluesabre> and more hardware variety could mean more potential solutions
<knome> yes
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea
<bluesabre> maybe we can get cavalier as a mentor on for that as well
<knome> i would probably list that as one of the items for us
<knome> but there is no clear goal for that
<bluesabre> ochosi may be interested with the lines around here
<knome> well expect "make sure it works"
<knome> bluesabre, in 16.04, when the login screen appears, it blinks black
<knome> is that known?
<flocculant> knome: I've seen mention elsewhere - but not seen it myself
<knome> ok - i have it on nvidia and integrated intel...
<knome> i can help debug it $later
<knome> but smoothening things like that would be ++
<bluesabre> knome: alrighty, did not know that was back
<knome> apparently it is
<knome> i didn't have it on 15.10
<knome> wait
<bluesabre> btw, cooking and getting ready for work, in case I drop off here and there
<knome> i have it on 15.10
<knome> i didn't have it on 15.04
<flocculant> knome: I'll see if I can dig it out - but, not seen it mentioned on Xubuntu 
<knome> silly..
<knome> flocculant, i saw one person ask about it on #xubuntu 
<flocculant> ok 
<knome> apparently it doesn't block keyboard input
<knome> i can't remember if he said that there was some problems with kb layouts or not
<knome> eg. the right kb layout was only initiated after the blink
<knome> but yeah, i'll get back to this later
<flocculant> ok - so anything else? 
<knome> i don't think so at this point
<knome> well maybe except
<flocculant> micahg bluesabre ? 
<flocculant> :)
<knome> even if i'm going to be busy, i intend to be more or less active as previously
<bluesabre> nothing more atm
<knome> so feel free to leave me PM's, pings or emails and i'll likely respond to them in a few days at most
<flocculant> knome: :)
<micahg> I can try to have a look at ubuntu core again
<micahg> s/ubuntu/xubuntu/
<knome> ok, bbl -<
<flocculant> micahg: oh that would be useful - people have pinged slangasek about it since we started this cycle
<bluesabre> micahg: I took a look at those the other day, they still look good and merge conflicts are mainly in debian changelog
<flocculant> micahg: can I action that? 
<bluesabre> or with bzr just failing to merge
<bluesabre> but feel free to give those a good push :D
<micahg> resolving the conflicts would be good, but ideally, if all the comments are addressed, I'd like to at least get an ACK from the CD team, I can do relevant uploads
<bluesabre> right
<flocculant> #action micahg to look at the xubuntu core issue
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to look at the xubuntu core issue
<bluesabre> its a moving target, with constant changes and uploads, so it'd be best to resolve right before merging/uploading
<micahg> makes sense
<flocculant> obviously if we're still trying to do this then I'd prefer it done as soon as practical so we can get other eyes on it via testing
<flocculant> anymore peeps? 
<bluesabre> nope
<flocculant> #topic Schedule next meeting
<flocculant> not sure how I got shoved up the list last time - so starting again from the top :p
<flocculant> #action Unit193 to schedule the next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to schedule the next meeting
<flocculant> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Dec  4 12:49:54 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-12-04-12.00.moin.txt
<flocculant> thanks bluesabre micahg knome :)
<micahg> oh, I was going to say we should announce the new CC in case people missed it: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2015-November/001162.html
<flocculant> oh 
<micahg> thanks flocculant 
<flocculant> oh meh
<flocculant> didn't subtopic the cd discussion ... 
<flocculant> oh well - can't go back - logs are done now
<flocculant> micahg: glad to be able to shift the time so you could be here :)
<flocculant> off for a while now - have a good day everyone :)
<knome> posted http://open.knome.fi/2015/12/04/clock-applets-xfce-panel-xubuntu-1510/
<pleia2> Orage4ever
<pleia2> G+ and fb shared too
<flocculant> evening pleia2 
<knome> pleia2, cheers :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-12-05
<Suek0> hi
<flocculant> hi Suek0 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-12-06
<Nairwolf> hi guys
<Nairwolf> I've seen the mail of flocculant, if I want to test these packages, I need to do it with the daily distribution, right ? 
<knome> Nairwolf, hang around and he'll give you more information
<Nairwolf> okay ;)
<Nairwolf> I've started to install the daily iso of xubuntu xeral
<knome> xenial you mean
<Nairwolf> oups
<Nairwolf> yes, of course ;)
<knome> pleia2, what's up with the server request?
<Unit193> She's second guessing it, remembered how much effort it'll cost.
<pleia2> knome: no news since the update flocculant shared during the meeting on friday
<knome> okay, can we pokey pokey people? :P
<pleia2> yes, but jcastro had to email the partners, and wait for a response and it's only been 2 business days
<pleia2> so I think I poke some time later next week :)
<knome> aha
<knome> then i just didn't read the update :P
<Nairwolf> I wasn't here for the last meeting. Where I can read a summary of the meeting ? 
<knome> yep
<knome> !meetings
<ubottu> Team meetings are held in #ubuntu-meeting - See Â« /msg ubottu logs Â» for transcripts.
<knome> hmph
<knome> not there
<knome> !meetings-#xubuntu-devel is <reply> Xubuntu community meetings are held in #xubuntu-devel - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings for meeting times, agenda and meeting archive
<ubottu> I'll remember that, knome
<knome> Nairwolf, ^
<Nairwolf> oh, thanks
<knome> np
<Nairwolf> but with #ubuntu-meeting, I've found also logs, so it's also great ;)
<pleia2> just not our logs
<Nairwolf> indeed
<knome> !meetings-#xubuntu-devel is <reply> Xubuntu community meetings are held in #xubuntu-devel - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings for meeting times, agenda and meeting archive - Other team meetings are held in #ubuntu-meeting, see !logs for more
<ubottu> But meetings-#xubuntu-devel already means something else!
<knome> !no, meetings-#xubuntu-devel is <reply> Xubuntu community meetings are held in #xubuntu-devel - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings for meeting times, agenda and meeting archive - Other team meetings are held in #ubuntu-meeting, see !logs for more
<ubottu> I'll remember that knome
<knome> there we go
<Unit193> !meetings-#xubuntu is <alias> meetings-#xubuntu-devel
<Unit193> ! meetings-#xubuntu-offtopic is <alias> meetings-#xubuntu-devel
<ubottu> I'll remember that, Unit193
<ubottu> I'll remember that, Unit193
<Nairwolf> I will probably give a help for the walppaper contest
<Nairwolf> It was for you knome
<knome> yes, noticed - thanks
<knome> let's see what kind of help we need - depends much on the features of the submission webapp bluesabre is putting up
<pleia2> ooh, usb sticks
<Nairwolf> ok, I will wait your announce
<pleia2> https://www.hellotux.com/xubuntu1510_flash_drive
<knome> pleia2, want to talk about issues related to gabor
<knome> ...'s last mail
<Nairwolf> pleia2 : Oh, that's so sexy ! I have one of this usb key, but it's so fragile...
<Nairwolf> I've put my usb key with my key ring, it was always with me. But, one day, I've discovered that the frame of my usb was broken. Now, I can't slot my usb on my computer...
<knome> usb keys are so last season
<Nairwolf> are you saying that cloud is more modern ? 
<knome> i'm using sd cards myself
<Nairwolf> can you boot from sd card ?
<knome> at least with my laptop
<Nairwolf> I've never tried with my laptop
<Nairwolf> pleia2 : do you where is going the money of this usb stick ? 
<pleia2> knome: k, I have things to do today (husband is going on work trip, need to prepare)
<pleia2> Nairwolf: just like the other xubuntu products, a percentage is set aside for us to redeem as goods for our community members and such
 * pleia2 back to pack things
<Nairwolf> okay
<Nairwolf> I should probably buy one of this usb stick
<knome> pleia2, it can wait too
<Unit193> What are all the plans for this, btw?
<knome> "this"?
<Unit193> This = Xubuntu server.
<knome> docs. tracker. wiki. xubuntu.org
<dennis_> Good afternoon all! How do I put in a feature request ... or sorts?
<dennis_> :)
<knome> dennis_, depends what the feature request is
<dennis_> knome, I really enjoy the distro, but I would  Like to see the desktop modernized with an updated default theme, wallpaper, and icon pack.
<knome> dennis_, aha... and what would the modernized theme look like?
<Unit193> Hot Dog Stand.
<dennis_> knome, I was thinking something along these lines : http://imgur.com/a/M4YHF
<dennis_> knome, a slightly updated layout as well
<knome> how is that more modern than what is in 15.10 (for example) currently?
<knome> i can see the panel layout is clearly different, and there is a different icon theme, but i can't see much difference on the theme or wallpaper
<knome> (and the logo colors used in that way... nope)
<dennis_> logo was just an example, but I think the Icon theme and panel layout cleans it up a bit
<dennis_> especially the panel
<dennis_> I tried to keep the themeing similar to what existed so it was not a drastic change.
<knome> you can send a mail to the xubuntu-devel mailing list with your proposed changes so it can be discussed
<knome> i don't think the change will be made for 16.04 though (since we want to avoid unexpected regressions), but at least it's there then
<knome> for what it's worth, i don't completely agree on all changes there (and there isn't even too many of them)
<dennis_> cool. That's fine. Just  thought I would bring it up. I think the distro (as well as XFCE) gets a bad wrap for looking old.
<knome> i don't think the distro looks old.
<knome> while your proposal has some things that would probably appeal the wider audience, there's also much more potential that it starts looking much much older much much faster
<Unit193> I thought boxy stuff was from the days of CDE or whatnot...
<Unit193> dennis_: Well, to be fair yeah Xfce by default does look pretty bad, but IMO Xubuntu (and Manjaro, ftm) do a good job.
<knome> faenza-style icons or not is a matter of taste
<dennis_> I would not be offended if it was rejected. I would always keep my personal theming the same. However, I just figured I would bring up. I just had a number of people slam XFCE (and Xubuntu) then show them what can be done to it (not just this theme, but a few others) and they tend to change their mind a bit.
<knome> dennis_, yes, we do realize people want different things; but xfce (and thus xubuntu) *is* customizable
<knome> we've even gone further and created more tools to customize more things than was previously possible
<dennis_> knome, of course theming/icons is all a matter of taste.
<knome> deciding on default is a completely different thing than deciding on your own preferences
<knome> i would disagree that all design issues are subjective
<knome> it may sound harsh, but sometimes it's just best to decide for the user
<knome> design is not only guided by looks, it's guided by usability, accessibility, and more
<dennis_> I will bring the proposal to the  xubuntu-devel mailing list if it sticks great...if not... thats fine too
<dennis_> Thanks for your help
<knome> np
<flocculant> Nairwolf: evening - if you can run tests with a xenial that's better 
<flocculant> if not then wily with the dev ppas - depends on if you're using a vm or not
<flocculant> nvm - I see Nairwolf> I've started to install the daily iso now lol 
<Nairwolf> hi flocculant, yes, that's what I've done : I'm using the daily iso
<knome> many fixes and updates pushed to the website branch, if there are anything else that bothers you with the website, ping me
<knome> bbl
<Nairwolf> ok knome ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-12-05
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: seen the mail from someone confused about xub qa/testers?
<akxwi-dave> hi kev,  the one from 15.37?
<flocculant> that's the one :)
<akxwi-dave> yup..
<flocculant> cool
<flocculant> recently joined testers 
<flocculant> suppose we should think about wording of qa so it's obvious 
<akxwi-dave> i had a look at that as well, and noticed same..   and I agree,,  :-)
<flocculant> apart from anything the current description is wrong :p
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: maybe "Moderated team allowing Xubuntu testers to become members of Xubuntu Team following regular contribution to the Xubuntu project."
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  how about "Moderated team allowing Xubuntu testers to be invited to become members of Xubuntu Team following regular contribution to the Xubuntu project
<flocculant> yup works for me 
<knome> slickymaster, oh, i forgot to mention you a side-effect of something we're trying out...
<knome> slickymaster, you might have figured it out, but
<knome> slickymaster, we now have our docs main branch under ~xubuntu-doc - this means everybody who is on that team has push rights to the branch that is used to build our official docs
#xubuntu-devel 2016-12-06
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: did you reply to that person?
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  not yet.. hard drive died last night, spent the night recovering data and rebuilding PC....
<akxwi-dave> sending one now..
<flocculant> that sucks
<akxwi-dave> tell me.. that was a 2TB drive... 1TB for Xubuntu, and 1 for data shared with windows
<bluesabre> evening all
#xubuntu-devel 2016-12-07
<mchl_nix> Hey. I was wondering where I can find the package name / source of the battery indicator. Specifically in 16.04
<mchl_nix> Is that something up stream or specific to xubuntu?
<bluesabre> mchl_nix, that's xfce4-power-manager's panel plugin
<mchl_nix> I see.
<mchl_nix> Is the code for it on launchpad?
<bluesabre> mchl_nix, https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager
<mchl_nix> Oh. Thanks :)
<mchl_nix> Are you familiar with this particular project?
<bluesabre> mchl_nix, very vaguely, you'll want to join #xfce-dev and reach out there to find the devs
<mchl_nix> I see. Will see tomorrow. Thanks for your time :)
<bluesabre> no problemo
#xubuntu-devel 2016-12-08
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> hey Unit193 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-12-09
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello seany sean
<bluesabre> hey there pasii pasi
<knome> haha
<bluesabre> working on new sgt-launcher release/package to get this thing uploaded
<knome> nice
 * bluesabre knows pybuild was supposed to make debian packaging easy, but >.<
<Unit193> ...You don't think it does?
<bluesabre> gets messy with gtk apps
<bluesabre> Unit193, been wrestling with doing it "correctly", result https://launchpadlibrarian.net/297291441/sgt-launcher_0.2.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
<Unit193> knome: Can you auto-discard *.date?
<flocculant> bluesabre: doncha just love updates to things that were working before updating ... http://i.imgur.com/3lfF8yN.png
<flocculant> nothing showing in indicator panel now the upstart patch is dropped
<flocculant> bluesabre: rebuilding 64bit now, if I get time I'll look tonight 
<knome> Unit193, done
<Unit193> Danke.
<flocculant> evening knome Unit193 
<knome> hello flocculant 
<Unit193> Howdy.
<mchl_nix> Hi Unit193 
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1648889
<ubottu> bug 1648889 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Removal of upstart patch breaks indicator-plugin" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1648889
<flocculant> pinged xnox in -release about it too
<Unit193> Of course it breaks it, that's how it's telling them to launch,
<flocculant> wouldn't know
<flocculant> I can be sarky on the bug report - probably won't help much though
<Unit193> Wow, he seriously just dropped the patch...  That's awesome.
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> would probably help if someone at least confirmed it - which likely doesn't need anyone to even check :p
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> flocculant, thanks for the note
<bluesabre> lovely news. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1641300
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1641300 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] sgt-launcher" [Wishlist,Fix committed]
<knome> :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-12-10
<flocculant> bluesabre: \o/ and welcome, even if I'm usually the bearer of bad news :p
<bluesabre> yay, the themes are back in the packageset, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/zesty/xubuntu
<ochosi> bluesabre: wow, that only took... 3 cycles or so? :)
<ochosi> (for something we owned as much as anyone can own package content)
<ochosi> </sarcasm>
<bluesabre> ochosi, we had gotten shimmer-themes back, but then we broke shimmer themes up and lost upload again
<ochosi> yeah, don't get why we lost upload rights again though
<bluesabre> packageset things are a bit finnicky is all
<ochosi> yeah obviously
#xubuntu-devel 2016-12-11
<tracker8> Hi
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r488 Fix ConversationListView in Geary (GTK 3.20+)... (by Sean Davis)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-12-04
<flocculant> bluesabre: just clementine
<flocculant> tried qmmp, audacious, didn't expect the mpd things to work anyway
<flocculant> ochosi: will turn it on again :)
<flocculant> ochosi: anythng in particular to test there?
<bluesabre> flocculant: and do those work with indicator-sound
<bluesabre> flocculant: looks like audacity doesn't support MPRIS playlists
<flocculant> bluesabre: no idea tbh - never used it
<flocculant> bluesabre: also audacious and audacity - while slightly confusing namewise - are different things :p
<flocculant> https://i.imgur.com/yXudAnn.png apparently it's on here
<flocculant> bluesabre: if you want me to do so - I can install and check as many different music players that I can find
<tacocat> is anyone able/willing to push https://qa.debian.org/cgi-bin/vcswatch?package=lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings to debian? my usual sponsor has been inactive lately
<ochosi> flocculant: mostly whether the state of the panel icon is always correct
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - added the panel thing - will see what happens (was correct when added - assuming it lists all that's been logged until I cleared the log)
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> plus the icon changes if new/unread notifications come about
<flocculant> ok - will see what goes on, currently I am logging blocked apps
<flocculant> yea - assumed that to be the case
<flocculant> ok - will see what goes on, currently I am logging blocked apps - always
<ochosi> okeydokey
<bluesabre> flocculant: woops, meant audacious
<Unit193> flocculant: I'm presuming you aren't around, right?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Want to pretend to be floc a minute?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'm sure I can be flocculant...
<bluesabre> the bugs are bad and everywhere
<bluesabre> when are they getting fixed?
<bluesabre> ...
<bluesabre> forums
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> (I'm sorry flocculant)
<Unit193> I saw he was a mod on discourse. 0_o
<Unit193> bluesabre: You've been linked.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-12-05
<Unit193> bluesabre: So, I guess that wouldn't be tonight then. :P
<flocculant> bluesabre: ha ha 
<Unit193> Oh right, flocculant!
<Unit193> Boop.
<flocculant> yea that's fine - go for it :)
<Unit193> Done!
<flocculant> k
<flocculant> back later
<Unit193> Byebyebyebye.
<slickymasterWork> knome, I already have a brief description of Atril, Engrampa and Mate Calculator to the -docs
<slickymasterWork> will push them to the branch tonight or tomorrow
<knome> slickymasterWork, you can't push to my branch though
<slickymasterWork> no, to yours I can't :P
<slickymasterWork> what we can do is you push yours into main and afterwards I'll push the descriptions
<knome> bluesabre, are the mate apps in our seed already?
<slickymasterWork> what do you think?
<knome> or you just create a new branch based on mine
<knome> eg. pull it, then push to your personal repo
<slickymasterWork> or that, :P
<slickymasterWork> if bluesabre haven't seeded them yet, I'll go that way
<knome> my branch is a trivial change anyway
<slickymasterWork> hm hm
<knome> so i don't even care if i have a commit or chbgelog entry for that
<knome> changelog
<knome> sigh at phone kb
<slickymasterWork> yeps
<knome> bbabl
<bluesabre> knome, yup, been there since about 2 days after we agreed on them
<slickymasterWork> thanks for the heads up, bluesabre 
<slickymasterWork> knome, I'll be pushing the descriptions to the main branch then
<bluesabre> (feel free to take the bionic daily for a spin and report bugs) :-)
<slickymasterWork> been doing that for a few weeks now, bluesabre 
<slickymasterWork> even with the PPAs
<slickymasterWork> this week is core time though 
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: very nice :)
<slickymasterWork> :P
<slickymasterWork> Unit193, both in VMware
<slickymasterWork> 17.10 installed fine
<slickymasterWork> 18.04 crashed immediately after copying the initial files 
<slickymasterWork> no crash log detected to paste you
<slickymasterWork> will install both tonight in my Asus Eee PC
<slickymasterWork> Unit193, managed to get a print screen just before 18.04 crashed
<slickymasterWork> https://imgur.com/a/id9Ze
<flocculant> evening 
<slickymasterWork> evening flocculant 
<flocculant> hi slickymasterWork 
<flocculant> ochosi: notifications doesn't appear to be logging tbird currently, was fine this morning
<flocculant> ochosi: funnily enough - 2 of the mails it's not logging are from the error tracker about xfce4-notifyd :P
<slickymasterWork> lol don't deal properly with self, flocculant 
<ochosi> flocculant: what do you mean by "not logging tbird"? did you update notifyd since this morning..?
<flocculant> ochosi: just in time :p
<flocculant> was just about to say more lol
<flocculant> tbird notifications look very hit and miss - some get notified, some don't - maybe filters in tbird affect it 
<flocculant> and no I turned pc off at ~06:40
<ochosi> that's weird
<ochosi> so you log all of them and some appear but are not in the log..?
<flocculant> ochosi: yea
<flocculant> but 
<flocculant> don't know if this is something it would 'always or normally' do - I'm just looking at it cos you asked
<knome> bluesabre, slickymaster: ack
<ochosi> flocculant: very strange. what types of notifications are those then that don't get logged?
<ochosi> just fyi, so-called "transient" notifications don't ever get logged
<ochosi> that's part of the notification standard
<ochosi> so possibly some tbird notifications are marked as transient
<ochosi> (like e.g. audio-volume notifications or brightness-change notifications in xfpm 1.6.1)
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - perhaps that's what it is then
<flocculant> ochosi: mmm - just had the notify icon change to tell me of track changes in clementine, I turned clementine off about 45 minutes ago
<flocculant> catch comments tomorrow - night all
<Unit193> slickymaster: Oh right, should say thanks!  Bionic isn't as much of a worry right now, though that's a be disturbing.
<ochosi> Unit193: any blockers to get xkb-plugin 0.8.x in bionic?
<ochosi> that's one of the things i noticed that we're missing
<Unit193> It was in a PPA somewhere I think.
<ochosi> it has quite a few nice improvements over the fairly old and busted 0.7.1
<ochosi> (i know 0.7.1 is not *that* old ;))
<ochosi> could also start with it in the staging PPA
<Unit193> ~/Downloads/xfce4-gtk3/xfce4-xkb-plugin-0.8.1 see?  Is it in a PPA somewhere?
<ochosi> not that i know of
<ochosi> i think we just overlooked it
<Unit193> Was in xfce4-gtk3.
<ochosi> (so far)
<ochosi> ah ok
<Unit193> No, because I have it, packaged.
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> we == everyone but Unit193 
<Unit193> Dowh. :(
<ochosi> in the list of packages to get into bionic we overlooked it
<Unit193> Aha.
<ochosi> i had forgotten about it and nobody else mentioned i
<ochosi> t
<Unit193> Well, it seems to have fallen out when we moved from xfce4-gtk3 to experimental.
<ochosi> anything else we're missing from there that's a potential candidate?
<Unit193> Want to know our delta to Debian (vcs) if I upload xkb? :P
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/PTajaBLuv168daE2P33d/ :P
<Unit193> ochosi: I'm not seeing anything other than perhaps whisker and pa-pl need bumped.
<Unit193> ochosi: I'm looking at https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/xfce412.html though.
<ochosi> heh, nice diff
<ochosi> wow, debian has xfce4-settings 4.13.1?
<ochosi> fwiw, screenshooter seems fine it its gtk3 version
<ochosi> no differences that are noticeable
<Unit193> 1. Experimental, remember that polls experimental.  2. screenshooter is "stable", but depends on development libs so is in limbo (and a bit crappy too, but meh.)
<Unit193> ...Wait, did I just say that with my Debian hat on? :3
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> depends on devel libs?
<ninetls> bluesabre: I know this is not a good place to make such requests but I'll ask anyway
<ninetls> irrc you are developing lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings, isn't it?
<ninetls> I noticed that it supports to be plugged in xfce4-settings window
<ninetls> but it doesn't work since X-XfcePluggable=true is not set in lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings.desktop
<ninetls> I know that this configuration tool is not related to xfce but it contains code to support xfce4-settings plug!
<ninetls> how about enabling it?
<ninetls> ochosi: he probably means that libexo-2 is only available in exo 0.11.x which is development release
<ochosi> ah ok
<ninetls> but being development release it's the only version that supports gtk3
<ninetls> 0.10.x provided libexo-1 only with gtk2 dependency
<ochosi> i think that lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings *is* pluggable
<ochosi> at least it is here
<ninetls> probably ubuntu patch
<ninetls> but not in upstream
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/xihaT77.png
<ochosi> ubuntu is pretty upstreamish for greeter-settings
<Unit193> export PYBUILD_INSTALL_ARGS=--xfce-integration
<Unit193> No patches.
<ninetls> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/trunk/view/head:/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings.desktop.in
<ninetls> oh
<ninetls> there is an arg
<ninetls> seems that arch maintainers don't know about it
#xubuntu-devel 2017-12-06
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [bionic] r641 Add Atril, Engrampa and Mate Calculator descriptions in guid... (by David Pires)
<bluesabre> woohoo
<bluesabre> Unit193: sorry, never know how busy and away I'm going to be until I get back
<Unit193> Hah. :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Well the real floc showed up.
<bluesabre> Unit193: That's a relief
<flocculant> for who :p
<Unit193> Well, slick is all that's come of it.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I will eventually - time is harder for me to find nowadays
<Unit193> Oh nono, I didn't mean from you or the team.  I was thinking outside.
<flocculant> I guessed that - but give the 3 or 4 people who bother for us some time to read it :D
<akxwi-dave> bug 1736738
<ubottu> bug 1736738 in xfce4-notifyd (Ubuntu) "xfce4-notifyd assert failure: *** Error in `/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/xfce4/notifyd/xfce4-notifyd': double free or corruption (fasttop): 0x022dd7c0 ***" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1736738
<ochosi> akxwi-dave: interesting, could you also submit an upstream report for me?
<ochosi> haven't seen this issue at all
<ochosi> also feel free to test the latest version from git, i fixed some compiler issues already
<akxwi-dave> cheers will do mate..  (on both)
<akxwi-dave> ochosi:  xfce bug 14060
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14060 in general "xfce4-notifyd assert failure: *** Error in `/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/xfce4/notifyd/xfce4-notifyd': double free or corruption (fasttop): 0x022dd7c0 ***" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14060
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello
<bluesabre> hey pasi
<knome> o/ sean
<Unit193> ...Was I going to do something?
<bluesabre> Unit193: maybeeeeeeeee
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...You wanna add support for Xfce in ayatana-indicator-session?
<bluesabre> Unit193: Generally yes, wanting to do it myself right now, nope :D
<Unit193> Upstream is interested.
<Unit193> https://github.com/AyatanaIndicators/ayatana-indicator-session/commit/35cfd3c37eb12de99c35cc2c6ce7f65aed558a84 was the version for mate, looks decently easy.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-12-07
<ochosi> bluesabre: what're your thoughts on fixing up gtk-theme-config for 18.04 (it's quite broken right now) and adding it to the dev blueprint?
<ochosi> bluesabre: tbh i feel the alternative is dropping it, it doesn't make much sense in its current state
<ninetls> bluesabre: finally I tested your mpris support added to pa-plugin
<ninetls> works great!
<ninetls> very useful since I have hardware buttons to control playback
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> ochosi: I patched it a bit for 17.10... works fine for some themes, awful for others... and not sure how to improve
<bluesabre> ninetls: great! :)
<Unit193> sass is great for themes, not so much for gtk-theme-config.
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> bluesabre: i just tested it briefly for greybird in 17.10 and it didn't seem to work, maybe i should've restarted my session...
<ochosi> and yeah, sass is probably problematic there...
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also: MATE depends.
<bluesabre> Unit193: indeed, need to get back to that
<bluesabre> Really wish I had more time to do things during the week :\
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin 0.3.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin-0-3-4-released-tp50207.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> ochosi: added it to the dev blueprint... would you be interested in taking the charge for that, being the experienced theme developer and all?
<bluesabre> Unit193: want to package pa-plug 0.3.4? If we already have libwnck in the iso, you can build the plugin with it for a new feature, otherwise it's fine to leave it out for now
<bluesabre> the libwnck support is optional and config-disabled by default, so it doesn't hurt to build it in
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: I'm probably going to suggest some patches to the mate app packaging soon. Where would you prefer those submitted?
<flocculant> ochosi: was fiddling about with the power plugin - turned on system tray icon - you know it's completely different? https://imagebin.ca/v/3jtUn7Mh6I0M
<flocculant> greybird from ppa obviously
<Unit193> wnck is in other things too, Xfce likes it.  What's it do precisely?
<Unit193> Corsac got to it before I could!
<Unit193> bluesabre: Which players didn't support raise?
<bluesabre> Unit193: spotify
<ninetls> bluesabre: it compares xesam:title with window title and then raises matched window?
<ninetls> this thing is too heuristic
<ninetls> I have a mad idea
<ninetls> how about allowing user to configure his own custom pattern? :D
<ninetls> I know it's overkill
<ninetls> but it would be much more useful
#xubuntu-devel 2017-12-08
<bluesabre> ninetls: it compares the window title and the title defined in the .desktop file
<bluesabre> Since it checks when the application first makes a dbus connection, it can usually grab the application title
<bluesabre> In any case, it's a last fallback for the silly media players that implement the hard bits of the mpris spec but not the easy one
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> flocculant: yes, trayicon standard doesnt support symbolic icons and no text, so percentage and time and symbolic icon are only in thr pane plugin
<ochosi> bluesabre: well, i wouldnt *like* to, but i guess i can take a look
<bluesabre> ochosi: you're definiutely more qualified... I tried fixing it, and see how for I made it :D
<bluesabre> Typing at an angle guarantees no quality
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> neither does typing on a phone ;)
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre: All MATE packaging for Ubuntu and conducted in Debian via the pkg-mate team. 
<flexiondotorg> What changes do you require? 
#xubuntu-devel 2017-12-09
<flocculant> ochosi: wasn't talking about that - just the comepletely different icon there :p
<flocculant> anyway - noted it :)
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, that's symbolic vs non-symbolic. in adwaita those two types are extremely inconsiste t
<ochosi> also not easy to draw the powerline and adapter in a monochrome 16px version
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - wasn't sure about that - and yea I can imagine it being a pita doing that in monochrome 16px :p
<ochosi> that's why i went for the very generic circle with the flash
#xubuntu-devel 2017-12-10
<Unit193> Orage broke sync, and is sync'able again.  lightdm-gtk-greeter up.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-12-03
<brainwash> bluesabre: I noticed that the bug text for bug 1795135 describes one thing, but the report is now used for another thing
<ubottu> bug 1795135 in X.Org X server "XFCE window buttons are not clickable at the top of the screen" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1795135
<brainwash> it was originally filed against Greybird
<brainwash> and ochosi has fixed something in the panel code and greybird css
<brainwash> however, this is not tracked by the report
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14729
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14729 in Window Buttons "Buttons do not respond to click" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<brainwash> so, I think we need a copy of that launchpad report, and adjust the text of the existing one to match the tracked bug
<ochosi> brainwash: actually it's all pretty well described in the commit: https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/commit/?id=e56e869
<ochosi> but agreed, this one also helped: https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/commit/?id=52d4c333269452a03a0f1f8c527861b5cd21792d
<ochosi> and this is the related greybird commit: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/commit/0904216995f1108f517b98432000fb70a021932d
<brainwash> ochosi: you agree that a separate report is needed? or should everything be tracked in one report?
<ochosi> the main question for me is: what is the point of the report
<ochosi> is it to do an SRU?
<brainwash> unlikely
<ochosi> tracking the issue itself is probably not that relevant if we don't want to SRU this, because it has been fixed already and will be gone with the 19.04 release
<ochosi> so i don't have a strong opinion if we want to track this issue in multiple reports that are all "fix committed" or just in one umbrella-report
<brainwash> ochosi: I'll wait to see what bluesabre says about this
<ochosi> sure
<brainwash> it's his report after all :)
<bluesabre> Hello!
<bluesabre> It's something that should be SRU'd... If we ship a panel on top layout, the experience shouldn't bite
<ochosi> it's actually only two commits, the cosmetic panel one could be omitted
#xubuntu-devel 2018-12-06
<knome> hmm, so i just changed the #xubuntu topic link for 18.10 to the release page, but instead of mentioning the latest release, why don't we just say "Supported releases:" and the link to https://xubuntu.org/releases ?
<flocculant> knome: makes sense
#xubuntu-devel 2018-12-07
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: garcon 0.6.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-garcon-0-6-2-released-tp52242.html (by Romain Bouvier)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-12-08
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-mpc-plugin 0.5.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-mpc-plugin-0-5-1-released-tp52271.html (by Landry Breuil-2)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-12-02
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is ochosi
#xubuntu-devel 2019-12-03
<Unit193> After fixing Debian #886247 locally, I'm finally able to see the message after several months.  It was a very anticlimatic message.
<ubottu> Debian bug 886247 in listadmin "program dies with 'Wide character in subroutine entry at /usr/bin/listadmin line 556'" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/886247
#xubuntu-devel 2019-12-04
<ochosi> Unit193: i can confirm that the upgrade of xiccd through your PPA fixed the problem/s with it
<ochosi> i have been running it for a while now, no issues at all
<ochosi> with 0.2.x it was fairly frequent (every second session or so)
<Unit193> Well that's a plus.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-12-05
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: libxfce4ui 4.15.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-libxfce4ui-4-15-0-released-tp56684.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-12-08
<ochosi> hmm, we need to change the icon for the xubuntu help desktop file... doesn't show any icon with Adwaita
<smkellat> LP Bug 1855621
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1855621 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Documentation refers to apt-offline which no longer ships in Focal Fossa" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1855621
<smkellat> I'm very rusty at these sorts of things.
