#ayatana 2009-08-24
<DanRabbit> no, we don't need pixmaps at all
<mac_v> oh yeah , you have a light window theme, yeah that doesnt need one :)
<mac_v> i was thinking of one i have been working one and havent completed
<DanRabbit> hehe
<DanRabbit> okay I'm finished
<DanRabbit> let me uplaod
<DanRabbit> http://elementary-project.com/abuse/eGTK_0.9.13.6.tar.gz
<mac_v> yup , thats a match :) looks good 
<DanRabbit> The best part is, go to customize and play with the colors :D
<GreySim> Ooh, I'm liking this, though the panel taskbar bits could use some padding.
<DanRabbit> Feel free to hack away and let me know what you'd like differnet.
<DanRabbit> It's quite fledgling :D
<GreySim> Whee, Humanity orange GTK. Nice.
<mac_v> DanRabbit: any idea on making an icon theme that matches the recent panel ones?
<mac_v> ideas*
<DanRabbit> What do you mean?
<mac_v> hehe , i like the panel icons , but as i said they dont feel part of the Humanity theme :(
<mac_v> but thats just my feeling
<DanRabbit> I see
<DanRabbit> Well, I have to run to the store to get some Ink really fast
<DanRabbit> I'll think about it :D
<mac_v> :)
<GreySim> There is some unfortunate behavior when hiding the menubar. I don't know if it just happens when there is a menubar expected but hidden, or if it happens to anything without a menu, but: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/22777/screenshot_001_LQ8qx7.png
<GreySim> Ah, Tomboy note windows look fine, so it must be because it thinks there should be a menubar, because there *is* a menubar, just not currently displayed...
<DanRabbit> It's a bug in Murrine
<DanRabbit> I've asked cimi about it and I don't know whether or not he's going to fix it
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<mac_v> djsiegel: hi... the ayatana bugs which were invalidated , are now inaccessible ! since the branch ayatana now does exist , it just gives page not found error, how do we retrieve them?
<djsiegel> mac_v they are tagged "ayatana"
<djsiegel> use search
<mac_v> djsiegel: thats not the problem , tags wont work , let me get you the link
<mac_v> if a bug existed only in ayatana , then it points to > https://bugs.launchpad.net/dead-ayatana , if it has other projects , then we can access them
<mac_v> djsiegel: ^
<djsiegel> mac_v, talk to kiko in #launchpad
<djsiegel> DanRabbit: ping
<DanRabbit> djsiegel: pong
<djsiegel> hey DanRabbit 
<DanRabbit> what's up?
<mac_v> DanRabbit: ping ;p
<DanRabbit> mac_v: pong
<mac_v> DanRabbit: i have some [very few] of your icons in 128px , most are the same ... opinion?
<mac_v> wait i'll give the link
<DanRabbit> exciting :D
<DanRabbit> btw, I just made the most awesome discovery of all time.
<mac_v> that i'm *not* a genius ? ;p
<DanRabbit> mac_v: you can specify certain applications to use different icons with gtkrc
<DanRabbit> This will make panel theming without breaking applications fully possible!
<mac_v> hmm... never knew ! which theme does that?
<DanRabbit> eGTK does now :D
<DanRabbit> bzr branch lp:egtk
<mac_v> DanRabbit: http://filebin.ca/wpsdwm/Humanity.tar.gz
<DanRabbit> Also, this means I can different icons on buttons and tabs and toolbars
<mac_v> very minr details have been edited , bookmarks minor tweaks , the image loading i added a transparency , the logout button is same , but now its change
<mac_v> changed*
<DanRabbit> Cool, I'll probably merge those in
<mac_v> DanRabbit: oh wait i forgot! i think your save is a different color . orange?
<DanRabbit> yea
<DanRabbit> :D
<mac_v> DanRabbit: i have too many crashes/bugs atm , else i would have done a lot more :( , debugging is really bugging me!
<DanRabbit> hehe
<mac_v> DanRabbit: i also notice you dont do icons in all sizes , so which are the ones you would want first for 128px?
<DanRabbit> I'm trying to do icons in all sizes.
<DanRabbit> I tend to do the ones most relevant to the icons function first
<DanRabbit> So, whatever icons you think you would see in large sizes would be the most appopriate.
<mac_v> yeah you have already mentioned
<DanRabbit> So, I'd say probably Apps?
<mac_v> yeah , also why have you changed the shape of the shutdown buttons and now they are red? ;p
<DanRabbit> request
<mac_v> DanRabbit: lol , i told ya !
<DanRabbit> huh?
<mac_v> DanRabbit: that the shutdown icon might be requested in red ;)
<DanRabbit> oh tea
<DanRabbit> yea*
<mac_v> DanRabbit: if you are receiving mail from any *invalid* papercuts , change them to NULL project.
<mac_v> mrooney|w: ^
<DanRabbit> okay
#ayatana 2009-08-25
<kholerabbi> Could someone with knowledge of notification standards and the indicator-applet make a convincing request at the Skype for Linux developer's blog?   http://share.skype.com/sites/linux/2009/07/skype_for_linux_an_update.html
<kholerabbi> a request for Skype to support galago/notification standards*
<SiDi>  do they have a proper bug tracker ?
<kholerabbi> SiDi: Yes, but it's dusty, and not being used much atm
<SiDi> kholerabbi, but a blog comment isnt the place for a feature request :P
<kholerabbi> A bug report would be great, of course :P
<kholerabbi> https://developer.skype.com/jira/browse/SCL seems to be the place, would you be willing to report a bug?
<kholerabbi> SiDi: I would do it myself, but I want someone convincing and with real knowledge :P
<SiDi> Alright, i'm gonna write it :P
<kholerabbi> That's awesome, I believe they have some sort of voting system. So post the link here when you're done =)
<SiDi> err i have to create an account and give them my email address :/
<SiDi> sorry but i fear i actually cant do it  ^.^
<kholerabbi> You don't want to give them your email address?
<kholerabbi> SiDi: https://www.google.com/accounts/NewAccount ;)
<SiDi> :)
<kholerabbi> Ah, I have to go, g'night.
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<rickspencer3> djsiegel_: I meant my last reply to our ayatana mail good naturedly ... but I'm worried it didn't come off that way
<rickspencer3> I seriously meant that I defer to your judgement on the topic
<rickspencer3> :)
<djsiegel_> rickspencer3: no, no problem
<djsiegel_> rickspencer3: but remember, I am the design team
<djsiegel_> so saying "let's defer to the pros/the design team" kind of implies that you are talking about someone else
<djsiegel_> I am on the design team, rather
<rickspencer3> djsiegel_: I meant the design team, as "the pros"
<rickspencer3> I meant "the pros *on* the design team"
<rickspencer3> :/
<djsiegel_> does that include me?
<rickspencer3> yes, of course
<djsiegel_> ok, just checking :)
<rickspencer3> sorry
<rickspencer3> don't know what's the matter with me today
<djsiegel_> just wasn't sure who you were referring to :)
 * rickspencer3 untangles virtual tongue
<djsiegel_> lol, don't worry about it
<rickspencer3> *sigh*
<rickspencer3> I suck so badly
<rickspencer3> to be clear, for the record ...
<djsiegel_> No you don't.
 * djsiegel_ hugs rick
<rickspencer3> I meant to day, I was deferring the decision specifically to you, as you are the professional designer
 * rickspencer3 hugs back
<mac_v> mat_t: lol , awesome title
<djsiegel_> rickspencer3: have you seen Kupfer?
<rickspencer3> I don't think so
 * rickspencer3 googles
<djsiegel_> rickspencer3: it's a GNOME Do port to python, basically. It looks like it's going to be a pretty popular project, and right now they don't have a PPA or anything. Maybe you could introduce them to quickly?
<djsiegel_> They get a PPA and other cool quickly features, and their users/new devs get introduced to quickly?
<rickspencer3> djsiegel_: sounds good
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> I would wait until after feature freeze, if I were they
<rickspencer3> as quickly is waiting for desktopcouch to settle down before release 0.2
<rickspencer3> though if they want to get started right away, they should grab 0.2 from the ppa, rather than 0.1 from universe
<djsiegel_> ok
<rickspencer3> I'll be working on the release tutorial in the next couple of days
<rickspencer3> unfortunately there is some complexity with setting up pgp keys before you can upload
<SiDi> rickspencer3, does quickly also have packaging tools ?
<rickspencer3> SiDi: yes
<rickspencer3> there is $quickly package ... which will make a deb
<rickspencer3> and $quickly release ... which will make a ppa
<SiDi> Do they allow splitting a source tarball into several binary packages based on different paths ? :P
<rickspencer3> SiDi: don't know
<rickspencer3> I doubt it
<rickspencer3> you could ask didrocks in #quickly
<rickspencer3> that seems like an advanced scenario, though
<SiDi> :(
 * MacSlow -> capoeira-break
 * SiDi hides
<mat_t> mac_v: thx ;)
<mat_t> djsiegel_: can you have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/418703? I'm not sure what packages are guilty here
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 418703 in hundredpapercuts "Busy mouse cursor flickers like mad" [Undecided,New] 
<djsiegel_> hmm
<djsiegel_> I can look, mat_t, but I am not sure I will find :)
<mat_t> :)
<mat_t> that's where we all are - in the perpetual spiral of seek-and-hide
<mat_t> :P
 * SiDi thinks very strongly about Intel's GPU drivers.
<mac_v> mat_t: AFAIK , that is actually a graphics card issue ,xorg 
<mac_v> mat_t: not a papercut actually ;p
<SiDi> anything but a papercut :D
<mat_t> mac_v: cool, can you re-link it?
<mat_t> mac_v: I want to keep it as a bug *somewhere*
<mac_v> mat_t: i dont know the graphics card for dell mini9 , might wanna get a second opinion from bryce though :)
<mat_t> mac_v: thx
<SiDi> want me to re-set it ?
<SiDi> to xserver-xorg-video-intel ?
<mac_v> SiDi: if its intel yup :)
<mat_t> thx SiDi
 * mat_t go home
<mac_v> mat_t: speaks like ET ;p
<mat_t> bye everyone, see ya'll tomorrow
<SiDi> its a GMA950 afaik
<mat_t> mac_v: nice catch
<SiDi> see you mat_t 
<mat_t> ;)
<SiDi> aw, im not in n-o's top contributors anymore :( :p
<mrooney|w> djsiegel_: if I make a 60 second or so screen cast of an application I'm working on, and specifically a feature in it, would you be able to give me a quick review of what is good and bad?
<mrooney|w> or is there another person who might?
<SiDi> mrooney|w, ? :D
<bcurtiswx> hey all, im wondering.. for Indicator Applet to support apps.. they they have to support minimizing to try natively.. or will indicator applet do this for apps that don't have native support for that?
<bcurtiswx> if that needs to be worded differently please let me know that as well :-\
<SiDi> bcurtiswx, you need to use the libindicate dbus api to communicate with it, afaik
<SiDi> and you dont need to do anything related to tray icon
<bcurtiswx> i think the MPT wants to implement empathy into the IA, but its not done yet.  Thanks for the help
<bcurtiswx> may be good to do that, with empathy going deafult IM client
<djsiegel_> mrooney|w: yes sir
<mac_v> djsiegel_: did you have a look at this > Bug #417593
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 417593 in gnome-applets "Sticky Notes [mouse behavior] not consistent with system-wide behavior" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/417593
<djsiegel_> mac_v, hmm, I don't think it;s a paper cut
<djsiegel_> we install tomboy by default
<mac_v> djsiegel_: sticky notes is also in the default
<djsiegel_> which is the de jure sticky note default app
<djsiegel_> right, but, with a highly discoverable notes app
<mac_v> djsiegel_:  its in the panel applets
<djsiegel_> and a not easily discoverable app
<djsiegel_> mac_v, yeah I know all the facts
<djsiegel_> I really don't think this affects many users
<mac_v> ok... we'll leave it as such
<djsiegel_> the average user would not encounter this
<djsiegel_> Maybe 1 in 1000 would ?
<djsiegel_> fewer?
<djsiegel_> I would say this does not alleviate a pain for more than 1 in 1000 users
<mac_v> djsiegel_: if we fall short , we can use it ?
<djsiegel_> very safe statement
<djsiegel_> no, it's just too puny
<djsiegel_> if we fall short, we fall short
<djsiegel_> let's not count this one
<mac_v> no probs
<djsiegel_> good bug, but not a (good) paper cut
<djsiegel_> cool
<SiDi> mrooney|w, if you want me to have a look at it feel free to mail it to me (sidnioulz AT gmail DOT com)
#ayatana 2009-08-26
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: ping
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<SiDi> tedg, hello
<tedg> SiDi: Howdy
<SiDi> Fine, you ?
<SiDi> tedg, Do you know if there is still someone planning to separate libindicate and indicator-applet ? :D
<tedg> SiDi: Doing well.  It's done :)
<SiDi> Aaaaaw
<SiDi> Where can i catch the lib please ? :)
<SiDi> (lp:libindicate, found it !)
<SiDi> tedg, many thanks for having done it :]
<DBO> hey MacSlow, sorry about the empty diff
<DBO> my push failed
<DBO> fixed now :)
<MacSlow> DBO, np
<tedg> SiDi: No problem.
<tedg> SiDi: There should be new split source packages hitting Karmic... I think they hit yesterday.
<tedg> kenvandine: ^^ The separate libindicate source package is in now, right?
<SiDi> tedg, great !
<SiDi> now i have to make sure indicator-applet-xfce builds and find someone to package it :P
<kenvandine> tedg, yes
<SiDi> !info libindicate karmic
<ubot4> SiDi: Package libindicate does not exist in karmic
<SiDi> !info libindicate1 karmic
<ubot4> SiDi: libindicate1 (source: indicator-applet): GNOME panel indicator applet - shared library. In component main, is optional. Version 0.1.6-0ubuntu1 (karmic), package size 21 kB, installed size 108 kB
<kenvandine> libindicate2 is the binary
<SiDi> ah
<kenvandine> libindicate | 0.2.0~bzr325-0ubuntu1 |        karmic | source
<SiDi>  libindicate2 (source: indicator-applet) from ubot4 
<SiDi> brb, rebooting the router
<mac_v> tedg: hi... the i-a-sus , is showing icon-missing as the icon? is that a known bug?
<tedg> mac_v: Yes.  It's patched upstream :)
<mac_v> hmm... nice thanx.
<DanRabbit1> mac_v: pong
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: lol... got up early ? ;) just a sec
<DanRabbit1> Yea, I have school in an hour :(
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/1.svg , http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/2.svg   which do you like better?
<DanRabbit1> Thinner stroke :D
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: yeah , me too , just confirming how you wanted it ;)
<DanRabbit1> thanks 
<mac_v>  :)
<SiDi`Laptop> !info libpango1.0-0 karmic
<ubot4> SiDi`Laptop: libpango1.0-0 (source: pango1.0): Layout and rendering of internationalized text. In component main, is optional. Version 1.25.3-0ubuntu1 (karmic), package size 312 kB, installed size 924 kB
<MacSlow> DBO, eeejay would be the best to review the atk-patches... I don't know ATK at all and can only look for "coding-style" stuff or general things like translatable strings.
<DBO> yeah translatable strings is what I always forget
<DBO> every
<DBO> single
<DBO> time
<DBO> but yeah, how do we get an eeejay involved?
<MacSlow> I've been looking for him on IRC, but he does not seem to be online
<DBO> MacSlow, translatable string issue is fixed =)
<DBO> sorry for the delay, was working on maximus
<DBO> perhaps we should request a direct review from eeejay
<SiDi> Damn pkg-config
<SiDi> tedg, kenvandine if i wanted to check for the presence of libindicate in autotools, any idea what package name i should give to pkg-config ? :S
<tedg> SiDi: indicate
<tedg> SiDi: Usually it's the file name in /usr/lib/pkgconfig -- typically I'll just do an "ls" there to look for things.
<SiDi> thanks tedg :D
<MacSlow> DBO, would be cool, but does LP's merge-proposal interface/UI allow that? I don't know.
<mac_v> mpt: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/new1.png , if you like the color i can complete the whole animation
<mpt> mac_v, nice!
<mpt> mac_v, I think you might find that if you animate it, it's like spinning an egg, because it's a bit oval
<mpt> so you'd need to trim a bit off the arrow tails to make it circular, I guess
<mac_v> mpt: nope the arrow head is causing the illusion , I'v taken care of the circle ;)
<mac_v> mpt: oh! oops! i gave the link to the wrong image > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/new.png
<mpt> ah, much better
<mac_v> mpt: hehe , you are right about the first one though ;) 
<mpt> mac_v, so I'm happy to go through as many iterations of this as you like until you get bored. ;-) It probably should be a bit less yellow
<mpt> If you'd rather leave it as it is, please attach it to a software-store bug report
<mac_v> mpt: yeah, the color was my concern too , i'll try a different shade
<mac_v> mpt: bug report or wiki?
<mpt> mac_v, ah, wiki works too
<djsiegel> mrooney|w mac_v, next week is Ubuntu Developer Week
<djsiegel> will you be around?
<mrooney|w> yes I think so
<mac_v> yup
<djsiegel> Ok, I have the week off and may be out of reach, but there's a paper cutting session thursday
<mac_v> djsiegel: BTW wat time is it?
<djsiegel> I may try to get it moved to weds
<djsiegel> let me grab the page 1 sec
<djsiegel> MDC2: ping ^
<MDC2> djsiegel, pong!
<djsiegel> mrooney|w mac_v MDC2 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek
<djsiegel> so, I will be in the session for paper cutting there, would be great if you guys could attend
<mrooney|w> ah ok
<djsiegel> the focus of the week is development in ubuntu, and I've asked dholbach to make the remaining 60 paper cuts that need some attention the focus
<djsiegel> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscri
<djsiegel> eld.milestone%3Alist=13597&field.milestone%3Alist=13644&field.milestone%3Alist=13598&field.milestone%3Alist=13629&field.milestone%3Alist=13630&field.milestone%3Alist=13631&field.milestone%3Alist=13640&field.milestone%3Alist=13641&field.milestone%3Alist=13642&field.milestone%3Alist=13643&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_cve.used=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY
<djsiegel> those (nice url, huh?)
<mac_v> djsiegel: the url got cut ;p
<djsiegel> ok 1 sec
<djsiegel> http://tinyurl.com/mbpmob
<djsiegel> that's all milestoned paper cuts that aren't yet fixed
<djsiegel> ah, I may cut off In Progress
<djsiegel> http://tinyurl.com/nml6jo
<djsiegel> so, in all sessions that deal with fixing bugs, /these/ should be the samples/examples that devs are encouraged to focus on
<djsiegel> I think there were 400 people at the last UDW
<djsiegel> so, 400 / 60Â = almost 7 devs per paper cut remaining
<MDC2> djsiegel, i'll be working next week but i can probably hang around and poke some code from time to time.. but where is it? ;-) #??
<djsiegel> #ubuntu-classroom
<djsiegel> so there will be a lot of activity, and we will need to be there to support it
<djsiegel> but like I said, I will be unavailable for most of the week so more fall son you guys if you're avilable
<djsiegel> they are normal bugs, so our participation is not required
<djsiegel> but it would be good for some of us to be available
<djsiegel> Man, I am working in a public library, and this family with 8 children, all under 6 years old, is letting them run around screaming like it's a playground
<djsiegel> (my in-ear noise blocking headphones are out of commission due to a faulty wire)
<DBO> djsiegel, any fun papercuts up my ally you know of offhand?
<DBO> I'd like to be one of the 100
<djsiegel> DBO, let me see
<djsiegel> I have been using Safari 4 for a week, and its "awesome bar" is really cruddy
<djsiegel> it doesn't search your history well
<DBO> yeah its more of an "okay bar"
<DBO> also, did you see my first major code contribution landed in the public yesterday?
<MDC2> djsiegel, safari - aren't you running linux? ;-)
<DBO> the new icons in the window pickers applet =)
<djsiegel> DBO: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/8949
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 8949 in hundredpapercuts "Opening a deleted 'recent document' results in a new file." [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<DBO> consider it done djsiegel ;)
<djsiegel> MDC2: usually, but I switched to my MBP to get better adobe air performance and increased screen space to work on some mockups
<djsiegel> DBO: there is a patch there
<djsiegel> may be a good starting place
<DBO> awesome
<djsiegel> when someone shows the recent documents menu, if a recent document is a local file that no longer exists, it should not show up in the menu
<djsiegel> I think that's a reasonable fix/
<djsiegel> maybe the recent documents API should not tell you about deleted files, but that's a deeper change
<djsiegel> but if you have a better solution, DBO, by all means
<DBO> i think this is better handled at the level of the consumer of the recent documents api
<djsiegel> but why should the API tell you about recent files that no longer exist?
<djsiegel> if the user deleted the file, what's the point of telling them about it any longer?
<DBO> because drives can be disconnected
<DBO> local drives even
<DBO> do it all the time
<djsiegel> but you'd still want to see the file?
<DBO> yes, and if its in a path thats in my /etc/mtab, even offer to try to mount when I attempt to access it
<mac_v> DBO: what sort of bugs are you interested in? i could find you some :)
<djsiegel> who is Ted M Lin/
<djsiegel> what is is nick, rather
<djsiegel> we need to find him and ask him to follow up on his paper cuts!
<DBO> mac_v, I love heavy interface lifting, make me do some cairo. Of course those are rarely paper cuts, so I also would do anything that lets me engineer a solution
<djsiegel> he's done at least 5 patches
<DBO> I like a challenge :)
<djsiegel> so, we have https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/385850
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 385850 in hundredpapercuts "Ship fewer screensavers by default" [Low,Confirmed] 
<djsiegel> it's ready in a branch
<djsiegel> do we need to subscribe someone to get this merged?
<djsiegel> these are things that should be taken care of next week
<djsiegel> a good number of paper cuts have branches with fixes
<djsiegel> and they need to be sponsored and merged
<mac_v> hmm... let me see :)
<mac_v> DBO: Bug #416624 , a little interface clean up , not too heavy ;)
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 416624 in hundredpapercuts "Preferred Applications is a little confusing." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416624
<DBO> oooo I wanna do that one
<djsiegel> that is not a paper cut
<mac_v> djsiegel: you were the one who made DanRabbit1  file it ;)
<djsiegel> no, it's a good bug
<djsiegel> but, I am sure DBO could do it in a day
<djsiegel> DBO, let me know if you tackle it and we can count it
<mac_v>  good bug, but not a (good) paper cut ? ;p
<djsiegel> we can schedule it in a round and remove another
<DBO> djsiegel, roger, girlfriend is in chicago tonight, so I might just sit down and do some binge coding
<djsiegel> nice
<djsiegel> DanRabbit1 filed another good one, let me find
<mac_v> DBO: then i'll find you some more ;p
<djsiegel> DBO, will you apply for membership in papercutters so you can change statuses and milestones?
<djsiegel> I will approve you
<DBO> sure
<DBO> done
<MDC2> about bug 416624, when entering a custom command; could there be a legend describing what "%s" is?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 416624 in hundredpapercuts "Preferred Applications is a little confusing." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416624
<DBO> MDC2, it should give an example
<DBO> like if you type foo --file=%s
<DBO> it would say "e.g. : foo --file=bar.txt"
<MDC2> is %s the only one availble?
<DBO> i dont think so
<DBO> maybe?
<MDC2> so.. it might be good to show what special commands are available?
<DBO> maybe
<MDC2> and i think that %s here refers to an url...
<DBO> erm yes it would in this case
<MDC2> see - if not even I know what %s is.. how will the "user" know ;-)
<DBO> neural lace?
<djsiegel> MDC2: yes, that's one of the drivers behind a separate dialog
<djsiegel> there's room for info about those keys
<djsiegel> but for the paper cut, it's not necessary to add new information like that
<djsiegel> I wish we had OS X style sheets
<djsiegel> instead of using a modal dialog for this
<DBO> sheets are more or less well positioned modal dialogs
<djsiegel> MDC2: those symbols are explained in the docs for XDG .desktop files spec I believe
<djsiegel> DBO, right, but they are attached to the parent window have have no decoration
<DBO> right, well positioned windows
<DBO> modal windows with flare!
<djsiegel> MDC2 and in the docs for g_desktop_file_open or something
<DBO> hell I bet I could write a 100 line app to turn all modal windows into OS X style sheets
<djsiegel> DBO do it, would be a sweet patch to gtk
<MDC2> djsiegel, oh.. it surly should be visible in the gui :-)
<DBO> you dont need to patch GTK
<djsiegel> you don;t need to
<djsiegel> but it would be nice to make it an explicit new dialog class
<MDC2> dbo, if we do it - it should be in gtk
<MDC2> i heard we had sheets in gtk / cocoa (?) now..
<djsiegel> I mean, you could try sheetifying modal dialogs w/ parent windows
<djsiegel> but that could get funky
<djsiegel> those modal dialogs could have modal dialogs :)
<djsiegel> or open other things
<DBO> dont sheetify a modal dialog to a modal dialog
<djsiegel> DBO here's a bug in the same vein as the recent docs: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/19069
<DBO> or a model dialog above a certain size
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 19069 in hundredpapercuts "Nautilus browser's pathbar displays non-existent folders" [Low,Confirmed] 
<djsiegel> has a patch, upstream is on it
<djsiegel> just fyi
<djsiegel> wouldn't hurt to ping cosimo
<DBO> what am I supposed to do in that kind of case
<DBO> Im a coder, not a packager
<djsiegel> just say "hey cosimo, you have the patch you said you were polishing?"
<djsiegel> he might say "oh yeah, forgot, let me merge"
<djsiegel> or "no, here's what I've got, can you finish and ping me back and I will merge?"
<djsiegel> that's basically what I do on these when they have a patch and stop moving
<djsiegel> "hey, upstream, umm, about that patch you reviewed and said looked good to merge..."
<djsiegel> "think we can merge it before 2010?"
<DBO> patching gtk to have a sheet modal window would take 100 lines of code including boiler plate code me thinks :)
<djsiegel> Like 2-line diff against gnome-panel hanging around bugzilla since 2002(?)
<mac_v> djsiegel: you need to send mail upstream about > Bug #388949 , 
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 388949 in hundredpapercuts "'Clean Up by Name' -> 'Arrange by Name'" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388949
<djsiegel> that solves ordering problems when changing resolution
<djsiegel> we had 44 dupes of that bug in LP
<mac_v> i mena the nautilus mailing list 
<MDC2> about the pathbar patch; i think it needs some polish first..
<djsiegel> turns out the 7 year old patch worked like a charm
<MDC2> its got #if 0 in it....
<djsiegel> mac_v, yeah
<DBO> well at least I no longer wonder what you do with your day djsiegel :P
<djsiegel> ha
<djsiegel> I have been doing other things
<djsiegel> haven't one PPCs in a good week
<djsiegel> I think there's a chance we will get a good 75 of these done
<djsiegel> I think 45 are done now
<DBO> im a bit surprised at how much trouble it is to get working code upstream
<djsiegel> hopefully the 400 devs here for UDW will descend like angels next week
<DBO> UDW is a physical event?
<djsiegel> DBO, yeah...
<djsiegel> not many people are home, it seems
<djsiegel> you knock on the door with a fruit basket...
<djsiegel> and nobody opens
<DBO> well if Verizon Wireless and TV taught me anything it's this
<DBO> you dont get them to open the door unless you have Catherine Zeta Jones do the knocking
<djsiegel__> DBO: you might be on to something there
<DBO> C Zeta Jones is a win
<djsiegel__> DBO: are you up for some major invasive plastic surgery?
<DBO> only if I get a weekend to fondle my new C Zeta Jones body
<DBO> it would be nice of XDG specified a Soft Window Strut
<DBO> similar to our current struts
<DBO> but not enforced as dramatically
<DBO> perfect for things like autohide panels
<DBO> or sidebars
<mac_v> DBO: wanna add support for thunderbird and messaging menu? ;)
<DBO> the what?
<mac_v> indicator applet
<DBO> messaging menu?
<DBO> i dont have karmic
<mac_v> DBO: i thought it behaves the same in Jaunty ... does it show the icon always? or virtual box ;p
<DBO> it behaves the same but its 10 times more worthless
<DBO> since nothing uses it
<DBO> I dont even really understand what its there for
<DBO> all I know is I can click on it, and then sometimes it will have a buddy's screen name listed, and if I click on that the window starts blinking in my task list
<mac_v> lol , its worthless here too , awaiting some development , its supposed to be a launcher + indicator
<DBO> or more usually, I click it and nothing happens because the window was already blinking
<DBO> all I know is SOMEBODY forgot to run wnck_set_client_type (WNCK_CLIENT_TYPE_PAGER)
<DBO> then it would actually be useful...
<DBO> letting me switch desktops and so on...
<mac_v> hm.. in karmic it switches windows and desktops when the app is selected. or maybe i set it as such 
<DBO> oh then they fixed it :P
<mac_v> DBO: are you familiar with gvfs and nautilus code?
<DBO> familiar no, able to dive in and understand yes
<DBO> well I am familiar with coding gvfs stuff
<mac_v> Bug #301035 , this bug needs a bit of tweek in both
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 301035 in hundredpapercuts "Place an Ubuntu icon/emblem on the system partition" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/301035
<mac_v> tweak*
<mac_v> see my comment #20 , icons stuff can be done but the code needs to be in place
<DBO> looking
<DBO> so really you want a patch to gvfs to detect if a filesystem (or rather any file) resides on a particular type of filesystem...
<DBO> mm I am thinking we dont even need to patch gvfs to get that info
<DBO> maybe not with gvfs however
<DBO> I dont know, we'll see
<mac_v> DBO: yeah , basically it already know the filesystem type, windows are usually ntfs/fat , so assign the window icon, apple assign apple icon , for the filesystem , we assign the Ubuntu icon, just the signla need to be sent
<mac_v> knows*
<DBO> yep
<DBO> yeah gio is still pretty rapidly changing
<DBO> shouldn't be too hard to get an upstream change on this one
<djsiegel> mac_v can you show me a screenshot of the new behavior for this: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/407116 ?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 407116 in hundredpapercuts "The thumbnail of an image should not be bigger than the image itself" [Low,Fix released] 
<djsiegel> if it's a real improvement, I will milestone it
<djsiegel> otherwise, I want to mark-affects nautilus and invalidate the paper cut
<mac_v> djsiegel: http://imagebin.ca/view/AM7wvFi.html , notice the 48px and the 128px
<djsiegel> eww, wish those were at least centered
<djsiegel> that just looks terrible still!
<mac_v> djsiegel: centered? i think they are
<djsiegel> vertically ?
<mac_v> yeah
<djsiegel> there's no grid there
<mac_v> oh grid , no grid
<djsiegel> hmmm
<djsiegel> is that the default layout behavior in karmic?
<mac_v> djsiegel: its anything larger than 96px is shown at 96 px and anything smaller is at its own size
<djsiegel> it all flows together like that?
<djsiegel> ok, I suppose we can count it
<djsiegel> but what if I have a 1px square png ?
<djsiegel> is the icon a 1px square ?!
<djsiegel> in that case, it's a regression
<mac_v> previously it used to scale , everything up to or down to 96px
<djsiegel> right
<djsiegel> I understand
<djsiegel> I think this change is not necessarily an improvement
<mac_v> i dont think there can be a 1px icon ;p
<mac_v> but yeah feels a bit inconsistent
<mac_v> personally , i liked how it was before all shown at 96 px
<mac_v> djsiegel: i think it has a grid... just dont know how to describe it , the default size of the folder icons icons is used , and the thumbnails is used centered in that , if bigger it is shown bigger... does that make sense to you ?
<mac_v> the thumbnails are centered in that folder icon grid
<djsiegel> Nautilus needs all of it's layout stuff redone
<djsiegel> on the desktop window, and in normal windows
<djsiegel> icons should not have drastically different dimentions
<mac_v> djsiegel: the desktop has changed too , 
<djsiegel> how so?
<mac_v> djsiegel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/388418/comments/7
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 388418 in nautilus "Smaller icons on the desktop compared to the Nautilus window" [Undecided,Invalid] 
<DanRabbit1> Nautilus fork, ftw
<djsiegel> DBO:  you might have fun with this one too: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/16492
<DanRabbit1> who's with me?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 16492 in hundredpapercuts "Mouse pointer should disappear when keyboard is in use and mouse isn't" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<DBO> djsiegel, you know the active window indicator on docky?
<mac_v> i would not say disappear would be better, but rather semi transparent would be nicer , if possible , usually while typing sometimes we might check for the pointer
<djsiegel> yup
<DBO> ok, now that you have that in mind
<DBO> picture in your head the window picker applet
<DBO> remove the button like background of the icons in there
<DBO> (since we got rid of them)
<DBO> and make the icons full panel size
<djsiegel> DBO and it looks like the Win7 taskbar?
<djsiegel> :)
<DBO> active window is full opacity
<djsiegel> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/387467/comments/7 is maybe one of my best comments ever
<djsiegel> lol
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 387467 in totem "obtuse error when ejecting a playing DVD" [Low,Confirmed] 
<DBO> inactive windows are 55%
<DBO> however this is too subtle
<djsiegel> DBO, yeah, alpha does not work will with current gnome-panel
<DBO> no I have the alpha bit working fine
<DBO> its a matter of you just cant easily tell whats active/not
<djsiegel> hmm
<DBO> I could really use a chat with those guys who were at UDS
<DBO> your teammates
<djsiegel> DBO: related to the recent docs paper cut: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/415737
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 415737 in hundredpapercuts "Listings in Recent Documents should be dimmed when no longer available" [Undecided,New] 
<djsiegel> you might want to choose between them
<djsiegel> DBO, what's up? need some help designing a dialog?
<djsiegel> I've really boned up on that skill in the past month or two :)
<djsiegel> I must do 1 a day
<djsiegel> I take my morning vitamin, then design my daily dialoh
<djsiegel> g
<DBO> no I just need ideas on how to indicate the active window in such a small space
<DBO> and we cant rely on a simple background because sometimes the icon pretty much consumes the whole damned area
<DBO> unless we add left/right padding
<DBO> which we can do
<djsiegel> hmm? I am not entirely clear on the concent
<djsiegel> concept
<djsiegel> do you have a mockup?
<DBO> you have a 24x200 area
<DBO> on it lay a bunch of 24x24 icons
<DBO> representing all the windows on your desktop
<DBO> lets say there are 5 of them
<DBO> indicate the one which is active
<DBO> you may, if desired, resize the icons to be smaller
<DBO> or apply any other transform to them I can figure out how to do in cairo
<DBO> djsiegel?
<djsiegel> DBO : hayoo
<djsiegel> I would "bold" the active one
<djsiegel> is there a label?
<DBO> nope
<DBO> just icons
<djsiegel> hmm
<djsiegel> drop shadow
<DBO> you know... the window picker applet from UNR...
<DBO> its on a black background
<djsiegel> ah
<djsiegel> I am unfamiliar
<DBO> currently I am trying out making innactive windows 90% the size of active windows and 55% opacity
<DBO> this makes it obvious to me
<DBO> but part of the reason for this work was to make it possible to use 100% of the bar size for icons
<DBO> this is actually quite a hard problem for me...
<djsiegel> DBO, I will look when I have some time later
<djsiegel> I need lunch
<DBO> alrighty
<djsiegel> my mom just called me for help with voicemail on the iphone
<djsiegel> she simply doesn't understand the Visual Voicemail feature
<djsiegel> "I see a list of the people who left me voicemail, but how do I call to get my voicemails? Do I press #33?"
<djsiegel> "Mom, those /are/ the voicemails"
<djsiegel> "Press play"
<Mark__T> SiDi: ping
<SiDi> Mark__T pong
#ayatana 2009-08-27
<mac_v> !log
<ubot4> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<Mark__T> Hey, I just compiled indicator-messages to work with the new seperated libindicator/libindicate. Do I need to do some action for pidging to work with that? (restarting/rebuilding ...)
<Mark__T> Okay, found the reason: undefined symbol: indicate_indicator_set_property_icon
<Mark__T> in pidgin-libnotify
<mac_v> mpt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore/Icons progress icon  , you need to subscribe to the page ;)
<Mark__T> SiDi: did you manage to build xfce4-indicator-plugin?
<SiDi> Mark__T, hi
<SiDi> not really :D
<SiDi> Well, i did, the applet works
<SiDi> but it doesnt display messages
<SiDi> because of no indicator-messages. And this one depends on indicator-applet so i'm back at the start point
<Mark__T> SiDi: I have the plugin running, and the 'No indicators' messages is gone because I rebuilt indicator-messages, but pidgin refuses to load pidgin-libnotify plugin
<SiDi> lawl
<Mark__T> I think I should try {em,tele}pathy
<SiDi> i think there are unit tests in one of the indicator packages
<Mark__T> SiDi: I get undefined symbol: indicate_indicator_set_property_icon from pidgin-libnotify
<Mark__T> I guess I need to talk to kenvandine or ted
<SiDi> yeah :/
<SiDi> maybe a side effect of the split
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<dashua> SiDi, notify-osd in the middle of the desktop now?
<SiDi> dashua, yeh, im not responsible for that :P
<dashua> Ah alright ;)
<SiDi> dashua, that's a bit shocking but it might be better than in a corner
<SiDi> i dont have an opinion yet :P
<dashua> Yeah, I'm indifferent as well.
<mac_v> dashua: which type bubble does that? for me all seem on top right
<dashua> All notifications now it seems
<dashua> Oh nice.  Camera shutter sound in sound-theme-freedesktop 0.4 on screenshot
<dashua> Cool
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/23031/screenshot_A6RaYJ.png
<mac_v> i think i need to *not* update ;p
<SiDi> dashua, i know someone who has a notify-osd branch in which you can change the color of the bubble :P
<SiDi> To make even sexier screenshots
<dashua> Oh, link me please :)
<SiDi> (lp:~sidi/notify-osd/xfconf-experimental :P)
<SiDi> (but its based on 0.9.16, not 18
<dashua> Ok thx
<dashua> http://paste.ubuntu.com/260378/
<dashua> I need any flags? 
<DanRabbit1> is that really going to be the new default behavior?
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: yes!
<DanRabbit1> ah...
<DanRabbit1> I hope there's a preference to put it back.
<mac_v> i'm updating to join in on the confusion ;0
<DanRabbit1> I mean, yea it's more noticeable
<DanRabbit1> but, it's also going to be invasive
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: i dont think we will get a pref
<DanRabbit1> :(
<DanRabbit1> I guess that's what god created hackers for...
<SiDi> dashua, Oo
<SiDi> dashua, you dont only have this ? give me the whole output please :)
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: notify-osd has too many rules , prefs for that would break a lot of stuff
<SiDi> DanRabbit1, actually on a pure technical plan, you're less likely to be disturbed by it if its on the middle than if its on the top
<SiDi> except during presentations
<DanRabbit1> and videos
<SiDi> in which case you're likely to have disabled them
<SiDi> yeh, videos too
<dashua> SiDi, http://paste.ubuntu.com/260379/
<DanRabbit1> i don't even know how to disable
<SiDi> dashua, EPIC
<SiDi> i forgot to push a file :D :D
<dashua> Ah
<SiDi> pushed 
<SiDi> MacSlow, the last diff i gave you is probably wrong then :D
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: actually for me this works out great , i use a single right vertical panel , and previously for notification daemon i had the area in the exact same spot... so yah \o/
<mac_v> ;p
<DanRabbit1> that's why I suggest a pref
<MacSlow> SiDi, sorry... very busy atm and not near the gconf/xconf stuff atm
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: if keep saying perfs MacSlow will strangle you ;)
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: bring it up in ayatana mailing list
<SiDi> MacSlow, no problem :P better that way since i forgot a file in the tree
<MacSlow> DanRabbit1, listen to mac_v  :)
<SiDi> if i add 20 lines of code it'll be a 3000 lines patch :d
<SiDi> DanRabbit1, the code for positioning has probably changed A LOT
<SiDi> which means setting up a pref would be long
<SiDi> and require some code split, probably
<DanRabbit1> I'm just saying
<DanRabbit1> for me
<DanRabbit1> I'm going to block the update
<DanRabbit1> We need one of these things: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RU2A985UKbY/SOrPTW4FZ4I/AAAAAAAABnw/b4aspUNuhfk/s400/Picture+6.png
<DanRabbit1> the little desktop, I mean
<SiDi> DanRabbit1, if there are MANY complaints about it post release, feel free to bug me ~1 or 2 months before 10.04 feature freeze ;P
<DanRabbit1> haha... why wait for tomorrow?
<SiDi> because i have tons of bugs to fix in other apps :P
<DanRabbit1> SiDi: have you blogged about the change?
<SiDi> about which ? i'm not a notify-osd dev, i just like messing with it :P
<DanRabbit1> ah, well whoever decided it would look better in the middle of the screen should blog about why it's better
<SiDi> because it doesnt cover your apps toolbar
<SiDi> for instance DanRabbit1, with the top right positioning, firefox's search entry was covered
<DanRabbit1> ah, I think a better fix would have been a close button.
<SiDi> which was preventing from seeing what you write
<DanRabbit1> SiDi: you can click through.
<SiDi> close button == need to move the mouse too, and to _accurately_ click on a part of the bubble
<SiDi> yeh but usually you use keyboard shortcuts
<SiDi> so the entry is focused but covered by a bubble
<DanRabbit1> it could just show on mouseover
<DanRabbit1> the close button I mean
<SiDi> if it covers content in the middle you can scroll up/down in almost all apps to move the content you wanna read
<SiDi> with both mouse & keyboard
<SiDi> but the close button requires to hover the bubble, aim a corner, and click
<SiDi> while with n-o we can prevent a bubble from disturbing just by hovering it
<DanRabbit1> yea, I dunno
<DanRabbit1> I just disgree with the whole behavior of notify-osd sometimes
<DanRabbit1> It's confusing
<DanRabbit1> and weird.
<SiDi> Yes, it's weird
<DanRabbit1> and, I'm not a total computer noob
<DanRabbit1> my mom would explode.
<SiDi> but i think that once the old habits are gone, n-o will be more agreable than the previous ones
<SiDi> DanRabbit1, iits because you're not a 'noob' :) you got habits
<SiDi> i love being able to royally ignore notifications when i focus on something else
<SiDi> and i love being notified about whats going on in my computer
<SiDi> and n-o allows me both much more easily than notification-daemon with its down timeouts and actions
<DanRabbit1> Yea, notify OSD definitely needs to get actions
<DanRabbit1> that was convenient
<SiDi> NO
<SiDi> definately, no :P
<SiDi> i was so sick of things opening without my consent when i wasnt aiming the close button correctly
<SiDi> notifications are for notifying
<DanRabbit1> adjust your mouse :p
<SiDi> if they want actions, there's the messaging applet
<DanRabbit1> which is bad juju
<ScottK> SiDi: That's one view.  It doesn't seem widely shared so far.
<SiDi> ScottK, people dont like things that respect semantics :D
<DanRabbit1> messaging applet is all about bad :(
<DanRabbit1> we need less clutter, not more.
<ScottK> SiDi: Personally I'm not a fan of "Ha! I'm going to tell you about something, but not actually let you deal with it", but I understand this isn't going to change.
<DanRabbit1> ScottK: I agree fully
<DanRabbit1> That was the killer feature that got me to switch to Banshee
<ScottK> DanRabbit1: It's also a settled issue for notify-osd and Gnome in Ubuntu.
<ScottK> There's no point in rediscussing it.
<DanRabbit1> I know :(
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: FWIW , it protested against it when proposed in the ayatana mailing list :)
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: this was proposed a long time back , you can check out the discussion in archives
<mac_v> s/it/I
<djsiegel__> DBO lamalex DanRabbit1: http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/08/26/losing-my-religion/
<ScottK> He has some valid point, but is fundamentally wrong.  Design is no different than code in these regards.
<DBO> morning djsiegel__ 
<DBO> is otto around? :)
<djsiegel__> DBO: he's coming, his nick is chaotic
<DBO> awesome
<chaotic> DBO: hey
<DBO> hey chaotic :)
<chaotic> DBO: I've just realised I never got back to you on that last email - really sorry about that
<DBO> its okay
<chaotic> DBO: been super busy
<chaotic> how you doing?
<DBO> that project has been stalled by my being super busy also
<DBO> I have been alright, enjoying my new job, loving working with canonical :)
<chaotic> DBO: cool
<DBO> so I have a challenge for you
<chaotic> DBO: so what can I help with?
<chaotic> DBO: uh huh
<DBO> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/269345/wpa_active_window.png
<DBO> that is the new look of the icons of the window picker applet
<DBO> they are bigger in general
<DBO> which means they are no longer actually gtk buttons
<DBO> but I need a method of identifying the active window from the not active ones
<DBO> you can kinda see what I came up with, but I am not really happy with it
<DBO> are you familiar with the window picker applet from UNR?
<chaotic> DBO: in that png it's the one in the middle right?
<DBO> yes
<chaotic> DBO: not really familiar
<DBO> ok, well the philosophy is really simple, there is an icon for every window. These icons are height of the panel (24px) and are packed next to each other. There is a 3px border on each side we can play with also.
<chaotic> DBO: deselected could go to greyscale?
<chaotic> DBO: they look a little blurry - are they scaled?
<DBO> unfortunately yes
<chaotic> DBO: ah
<DBO> there is no good way to get quality icons 100% of the time :(
<DBO> I am working on that problem in another one of my projects, but it isn't ready yet
<chaotic> DBO: know what you mean
<chaotic> can you use a highlight colour behind?
<DBO> sure
<DBO> just keep in mind sometimes that icon can be pretty much wholly consuming of the 24x24 area leaving only the 3px borders...
<DBO> so I am also dimming the opacity of the other icons, but its hard to notice that...
<chaotic> no I see that
<chaotic> can deselected become greyscale?
<DBO> I could do that
<DBO> Im pretty sure I can make anything you can dream up happen :)
<DBO> thats why its a challenge, you dream up the awesome, I make it happen
<chaotic> DBO: hahaha
<chaotic> DBO: can you send me some full screenshots so I can see it in context?
<DBO> yes
<DBO> let me put on a UNR theme also
<DBO> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/269345/UNR-wpa-screen.png
<DBO> chaotic, ^^
<chaotic> DBO: looking
<chaotic> DBO: hmmm, does get lost a bit
<DBO> yeah
<chaotic> DBO: that mail icon stands out a lot - how come that's highlighted so much
<DBO> on the right?
<DBO> no idea, ignore that...
<DBO> thats not really part of this issue :)
<chaotic> DBO: no, I know but they background colour makes a big difference there
<DBO> it does make a difference, we could do something like that
<DBO> however I really was hoping to be more subtle :P
<DBO> excuse me for a moment, I need to restart my x server
<DBO> maximus always screws up my windows...
<DBO> back
<chaotic> DBO: I'll have a think, have to leave shortly I'm afraid
<DBO> chaotic, thats all I ask :)
<DBO> chaotic, one more thing, if you think it should be animated or something like that, I can do that too.
<djsiegel__> mrooney|w: any idea which project this affects? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/344228
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 344228 in hundredpapercuts "Deleting an image that's used as a desktop wallpaper removed it as a wallpaper without notice" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<djsiegel__> gnome-settings-manager or something?
<mrooney|w> well, I guess it would depend on how you want to fix it
<mrooney|w> nautilus handles deleting it I believe, so you might want a warning there
<djsiegel__> gnome-control-center ?
<djsiegel__> nah
<djsiegel__> the user should be able to download a photo to their desktop
<djsiegel__> set it as the background
<djsiegel__> and delete the photo
<djsiegel__> deleting a file should not change you desktop
<djsiegel__> users don't think how the software works
<Mark__T> SiDi: ping
<SiDi> pong
<SiDi> average lag : 6000ms
<SiDi> packet loss : 0%
<Mark__T> do yo still have the pidgin error I pasted here in your history?
<SiDi> hm, no ? :P
<SiDi> well, its somewhere in my history... but i dont even know in which browser
<Mark__T> just the missing symbol thing I pasted in this channel
<SiDi> do you want me to search for it ?
<SiDi> (and, which paste site was it ?)
<Mark__T> it was a oneliner in here, me explaining why pidgin-libnotify doesn't work
<SiDi> oh
<SiDi> Mark__T, i cant find it in my history
<Mark__T> np, tomorrow I need to send it to me from the box I try to run latest indicator foo
<Mark__T> so that I have that information at hand when kenvandine or tedg wake up
<SiDi> :)
<lamalex> djsiegel_: that would definitely be nautilus
<djsiegel_> lamalex: I don't know...
<lamalex> seems like it'd be an easy fix too, just copy the photo to a private nautilus directory ~/.local/share/nautilus/ or something, and use that
<djsiegel_> right, but the piece of software that would make the copy
<djsiegel_> unfortunately, there needs to be a background API
<djsiegel_> right now, I think individual apps just set the gconf key
<djsiegel_> but something watches that key for changes
<djsiegel_> does nautilus draw the desktop wallpaper?
<lamalex> nautilus draws it yes
<lamalex> well it would just always be $XDG_DATA_HOME/nautilus/wallpaper
<lamalex> what would be *the* wallpaper file
<lamalex> s/what/that
<lamalex> when you set new wallpaper it would get copied there
<lamalex> unrelated to the old file
 * lamalex thinks that ^ is a decent solution
<djsiegel_> well, there's a lot of push behind being able to edit the current image
<djsiegel_> see my user story on the bug
<lamalex> I don't think that's right, if you edit the image you should have to reset it, or expect that if you delete it, it goes away
<djsiegel_> hmm
<djsiegel_> I think editing an image is a more advanced action than deleting or moving a file
<djsiegel_> novice users will delete and move files often
<lamalex> god these fscking notifications are driving me nuts
<djsiegel_> but if you open an image and edit it
<djsiegel_> haha
<djsiegel_> I am updating now
<mac_v> lamalex: me too! seems totally weird when a mail notification pops up in the center!
<lamalex> mac_v: you should 2nd my post to the ayatana list
<lamalex> every time one pops up ive got like a 3 second "wtf is this?" period
<mac_v> lamalex: FWIW , i did protest the minute it was proposed > https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg00106.html
<lamalex> mac_v: yah, i think i remember
<mac_v> lamalex: but when its not something they are going to listen to ... its like why bother! uninstall and use mumbles ;)
<DanRabbit1> djsiegel_: I agree with that article quite a bit. Sometimes you need a little dictatorship. The democracy should be in choosing who's in charge.
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: when you install mumbles , it will block a lot ot notify-osd bubbles :)
<DanRabbit1> mumbles?
<mac_v> yeah , mumbles , it uses old notification daemon
<DanRabbit1> so we can use actions and that?
<DanRabbit1> I'll check it out.
<DanRabbit1> I have to go make lunch right now though :D
<popey> so i take it the middle of the right side of the screen for the notification bubble is intentional, i dont need to file a bug?
<DanRabbit1> yea, it's intentional :/
<popey> how [insert_word_I_havent_thought_of_yet]
<DanRabbit1> yea, that was my reaction too
<lamalex> seems to be the concensus
<DanRabbit1> I'm glad you agree as well, lamalex
<lamalex> there's a thread going on the list
<lamalex> DanRabbit1: how's that tictactoe icon coming
<lamalex> :)
<DanRabbit1> give me one second
<DanRabbit1> thoughts? http://elementary-project.com/abuse/tictactoe.svg
<SiDi> DanRabbit1, write a hacker symbol with o's ? :D
<lamalex> the triple Os should have a line through them, that's a winning move!
<DanRabbit1> I was thinking along those lines, but it just didn't look good.
<popey> SiDi: I was thinking the same thing!
<lamalex> DanRabbit1: you should move the top X to the top left and block the O
<popey> the hacker logo but in a game of O and X
<lamalex> and leave it asymatric
<lamalex> asymmetric
<DanRabbit1> okay
<DanRabbit1> let me check my french fries real fast :D
<lamalex> yum
<DanRabbit1> they're ready
<DanRabbit1> I'll brb
<mrooney|w> djsiegel1: do you think the papercutters team could be unsubscibed from all papercut bugs, and let that up to individual members if they want to?
<mrooney|w> it is too much volume for me and is making it hard for me to process the actual bugs I am subscribed to
#ayatana 2009-08-28
<hyperair> is anyone noticing notify-osd place notifications in in the middle-right portion of the screen
<mac_v> hyperair: are you subscribed to ayatana mail?
<mac_v> ;)
<hyperair> eh no i'm not
<hyperair> why?
<mac_v> hyperair: thats a new "Feature"
<hyperair> ..what?
<mac_v> MacSlow: just a small doubt , how are the bubbles classified? the ones over the line and the ones below the line? is it user triggered and non-user-triggered?
<mac_v> hyperair: yup a feature
<hyperair> this looks pretty annoying.
<mac_v> hyperair: take it to the man ;)
<hyperair> i didn't really like removing them actions on notifications, but at least that was tolerable
<hyperair> this is *ridiculous*
<MacSlow> mac_v, atm the sync. notifications appear above the "half line" and async. ones below it
<mac_v> hmm... 
<hyperair> it looks like it's floating in the middle of nowhere.
 * mac_v checks notify-osd wiki for sync and async difference
<hyperair> imo, i have text in the middle of the screen more often than at the corner
<MacSlow> mac_v, synchronous bubble = feedback bubble
<MacSlow> mac_v, e.g. like screen-brightness, volume etc.
<mac_v> MacSlow: so those are usually user triggered right? except for switching from DC to AC , which is actually user triggered
<mac_v> the async are just mail/wireless notifications and stuff
<MacSlow> mac_v, correct
<mac_v> MacSlow: ah... thanx :)
<mac_v> hyperair: if you are irritated you *need* to discuss this in ayatana mailing list and convince sabdfl
<hyperair> maybe i will.
<hyperair> i still have to read through that entire thread first
<Michalxo> hello MacSlow . What is going to happen with notifications? 
<MacSlow> Michalxo, could be a bit more specific with your question?
<Michalxo> that irritating middle section.. will you move it to top/bottom right or are you going to keep it as it is now?
<Michalxo> I like notifications very much, but that middle is *yuck* 
<mac_v> Michalxo: you need to express your dissent to ayatana mailing list
<Michalxo> ok thank you :)
<mac_v> Michalxo: the discussion has already started against the position , but awaiting a bigger response to revert to top
<Michalxo> well.. few of us has already "signed" this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/419894
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 419894 in notify-osd "notify-osd images appear at the middle right of screen" [Undecided,Invalid] 
<mac_v> Michalxo: oh... didnt notice that bug , kindly add that bug in your response too :)
<MacSlow> Michalxo, be sure to read the "New notification placement" thread there.
<Michalxo> ayatana seems to be "down"? I can't connect to server
<Michalxo> ok thank you very much guys :)
<MacSlow> Michalxo, in http://macslow.net/?p=381 I explicitly wrote "experiment with centering bubbles vertically ..."
<Michalxo> well.. I think I missed that.. but at first we thought it's a bug :)
<Michalxo> silly questoin.. how can I respond on that mailing list?
<Michalxo> I am not in any subscribed team...
<shakaran> Micahlxo: Go to https://launchpad.net/~ayatana, near to "Members" section, click on "join the team"
<Michalxo> ahaaa :)
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<hyperair> what's the ayatana list address?
<kholerabbi> ayatana@lists.launchpad.net I think
<hyperair> alright, thanks
 * hyperair is *very* annoyed with the new notify-osd behaviour
<hyperair> because some people appear to have in the top right corner, notify-osd now renders its notifications in the middle, right of the screen, as if i don't have things there >=(
<hyperair> so much for staying out of my way. it's not blocking everything i do, from emails to terminals to web pages, among other things
<hyperair> ugh
<hyperair> hmm wait, there's already a thread about it
<hyperair> MacSlow: what do you think about the new notifications position, honestly?
<mac_v> hyperair: everyone agrees they need to be back on top , but Mark is waiting for dissent from a lot of users , so pls show dissent ;)
<mac_v> hyperair: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg00557.html
<hyperair> mac_v: i'm afraid i might not be able to keep a civil tone if/when i do begin showing dissent.
<mac_v> hehe , we need to try :)
<MacSlow> hyperair, I like it better (because it revmoves a bit of complexity from the code, if stays like that) :)
 * mac_v > reboot
<hyperair> heh
<hyperair> but it now gets in my way without fail :-(
<hyperair> i have thunderbird in its three-pane layout mode, and hence the email contents are all squashed in the right side
<hyperair> now, when a  notification appaers, it completely blocks a few rows of text
<hyperair> after my previous rant here, i was trying to keep an open mind about it, but when that happened while i was reading my mail, it seriously got on my nerves.
<MacSlow> hyperair, I move the mouse over it and it fades
<hyperair> MacSlow: yes, good idea. move your mouse over it. but there's another bug in that.
<hyperair> MacSlow: have you tried having an entire *queue* of notifications?
<hyperair> leave your mouse over it, and see what happens when the next notification comes in
<hyperair> the new notification doesn't fade, and now i have to keep moving my mouse every time a new notification comes in
<MacSlow> for that case we're considering to skip the initial fade-prevention
<hyperair> i still find it annoying that it gets in my way. =\
<hyperair> just fyi, when i'm programming, i generally have a two-paned editor
<hyperair> when a notification comes in, it completely blocks my view of the file on the right.
<hyperair> and when you're using something like emacs or vim, chances are that one of the reasons you're using it is *because* you don't want to touch your mouse.
<shakaran> I have a question. Why not make a GUI where the user can choose?
<shakaran> Just a window with a dropdown list for the position. Many people would welcome this.
<hyperair> yeah, i'm rather curious about that as well
<mac_v> shakaran: why dont you ask on the ML? or MacSlow you wanna answer that ;p
<shakaran> I do not mean that ML
<mac_v> shakaran: hyperair: repeating from yesterday  "if keep saying perfs MacSlow will strangle you ;)"
<mac_v> ML= mailinglist
<hyperair> mac_v: perfs?
<mac_v> user preference for changing the position
<hyperair> mac_v: and i'd say bring it on. i'm going to need someone to strange if notify-osd stays like this.
<hyperair> strangle*
<mac_v> lol 
<mac_v> its a tough coding , but sure coding help is welcome from all sources :)
 * mac_v wonders what he has to do with notify-osd anyway and shuts up
 * hyperair stamps "User" on mac_v's forehead
<shakaran> Some users have made to customize the color patches, I've also seen patches to restore the former position
<mac_v> correction  "notify-osd User" ;)
<hyperair> heh
<shakaran> well, customization is needed
<shakaran> If you give it to the users, you have more users and the more important thing, good desktop experience
 * hyperair nods
<hyperair> it would be nice to be able to customize notify-osd even if gconf-editor needs to be used
<hyperair> also it appears that i now get two updates available icons
<hyperair> fun.
<shakaran> or a simple file, only give the option
<hyperair> too hackish
<shakaran> well, I have to write this on ML for the record?
<hyperair> go ahead, imo
<hyperair> and while you're at it, please post a post dripping with sarcasm about the whole change in position on my behalf.
<hyperair> sarcasm being the most important ingredient.
<hyperair> don't quote me, though
<shakaran> dont respect is more important
<hyperair> ?
<hyperair> nono respect is important. be very polite
<shakaran> Sarcasm is not a good way to ask for things.
<hyperair> dissent needs to be shown ;)
 * hyperair shuts up before he leads anybody astray
<MacSlow> mac_v, shakaran, hyperair: I really don't like preferences in general... it is usually a sign that interaction-design failed or missed something... furthermore it makes code more complex, in order to avoid or intercept "stupid" inputs.
<hyperair> MacSlow: but lack of preferences makes software rigid and takes away freedom of choice, somewhat
<shakaran> yeah notify-osd is being rigid more and more
<MacSlow> mac_v, shakaran, hyperair: and once you start to move in that direction, the tendency is to have people tweak the s**t out of things... just look at the gazillion options you can tweak in compiz and its plugins
<hyperair> MacSlow: you're looking at an extreme case.
<MacSlow> hyperair, shakaran: finding the right balance here is the "art" I guess.
<hyperair> imo just a little bit of tweaking would be nice
<shakaran> yes, but your balance for now is zero prefs
<mac_v> MacSlow: i really dont care much for prefs  , but would be fun to have , just bling for me... 
<shakaran> if the people make a lot patch for prefs you could include in the official branch
<MacSlow> shakaran, there is some work for gconf in the pipe already... but it'll take some time before I can turn to that.
<hyperair> hmm nice
<shakaran> Well, it's a start
<hyperair> actually i don't really care about prefs as long as it works nicely for me (and appearing in the middle of my screen is *not* nice.
<ScottK> MacSlow: Unless you assume everyone is the same and uses a computer the same way, I don't see how preferences are avoidable.  It's not just getting design right.
<MacSlow> ScottK, some tweaks will be possible (afore mentioned gconf work) I just stated my general/personal view on the topic... and the ultimate goal of interaction-design (ok it's a bit utopian :)
<hyperair> we'd all have to be clones of each other for one size to fit all
<ScottK> Unfortunately, at least so far, the lack of configurability has been the source of a lot of resistance from people.  I'd care a lot less about default config if things could be changed to suit.
<tgpraveen1> MacSlow: does the ppa of notify-osd for jaunty have vertical placement of notifications
<MacSlow> tgpraveen1, I don't know which PPA you're talking about. I did not create one.
<LordMetroid> How do I join the mailing list?
<LordMetroid> I want to send a message
<hyperair> launchpad.net/~ayatana
<LordMetroid> There we go
<LordMetroid> thank you
<mac_v> lololol , notify-osd is creating more interest than the update notifier ;p
<Mark__T> tedg: ping
<tedg> Good morning Mark__T
<zoomy942> good morning
<Mark__T> tedg: I get 'undefined symbol: indicate_indicator_set_property_icon' with pidgin-libnotify 0.14
<Mark__T> I guess my indicator patches aren't up to date
<Mark__T> anyway, gtg
<tedg> Ah, he left.
<tedg> Yes, you need libindicate-gtk...
<tedg> If someone sees him tomorrow... can you mention that?
<tedg> kenvandine: Do you know Mark__T's mail by chance?
<kenvandine> mark@foresightlinux.org
<tedg> kenvandine: Thanks, mail sent.
<mac_v> hm... weird, the messaging menu , indicates a new message and as soon as i access evolution via the menu , it changes to regular icon , even when mail is not read... is that the design ? or a bug?
<mac_v> on the contrary if i access from evolution from the window list , the indication does not change 
<mac_v> *access evolution from
<tedg> mac_v: It should change back no mater how you select evolution.
<mac_v> tedg: nope it does not , i checked several times , selecting from the window list does not change the status , [oh i'm using cairo-dock , would that have something to do?]
<tedg> mac_v: Shouldn't.  File a bug in evolution-indicator if there isn't one already.
<mac_v> hmm... ok
<mac_v> actually i think the indication should change only when all the mail is read , not simply on selecting the app ;) so i'm gonna let this bug stay ;p
<mac_v> BTW tedg ,what is the icon indicator-red gonna be used for?
<tedg> mac_v: I'm not aware of an indicator-red...  where is it?
<tedg> Infact, I don't have it on my system :)
<mac_v> tedg: .. humanity icon theme has a new 3rd icon , indicator-messages-red
<mac_v> since that icon theme is directed heavily by sabdfl , i was wondering maybe new feature :)
<tgpraveen1> already in feature  freeze
<tgpraveen1> so unlikely
<tgpraveen1> mac_v: btw mind uploading the icor  a ss
<tgpraveen1> icon or SS
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: that was there a long before
<tgpraveen1> ohok
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: SS?
<tgpraveen1> screen shot
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: just do ~$ bzr branch lp:humanity
<mac_v> by long before i mean around 1-2 weeks :)
<tgpraveen1> hi i wanted to know what was decided for notification for fullscreen apps
<tgpraveen1> how will it be handled in karmic i rmeember a long discussion taking place
<tgpraveen1> what is the final decision?
<natewiebe13> probably asked too many times.. but what is the status of notify-osd? (is it being changed back to the top or is there going to be an option as to the location?)
<natewiebe13> anyone?
<MacSlow> tgpraveen1, from what I remember the IM-status should be used to determine if or if not to suppress non-critical/urgent notifications.
<MacSlow> gee... some folks are impatient
<DanRabbit> mac_v: I don't know what it is
<DanRabbit> it was in Human so I just made one ;D
<mac_v> DanRabbit: yeah , some knows what it is for but who ? 
<mac_v> ;p
<mac_v> someone*
<DanRabbit> haha
<DanRabbit> I bet ken put it in there just to make us freak out
<mac_v> kenvandine: booo  , 
<mac_v> any ideas what the icon indicator-messages-red is for?
<kenvandine> away
<kenvandine> i assume
<DanRabbit> mac_v: I named it wrong :)
<DanRabbit> it's supposed to be new-messages-red
<kenvandine> oh
<mac_v> DanRabbit: booo to you too! 
<DanRabbit> haha, see I have no idea what I'm doing :)
<mac_v> DanRabbit: i confused tedg with the wrong label
<DanRabbit> I just draw things
<mac_v> DanRabbit: btw.. interested in drawing an icon for Software store?
<mac_v> or hands already full ;p
<DanRabbit> Software Store?
<mac_v> app center = software store
<mac_v> DanRabbit: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore/Icons
<DanRabbit> oh
<DanRabbit> cool
<DanRabbit> the little store ones are cute, but it doesn't really look like anything :D
<mac_v> yeah i too think its cute , just needs a bit of touch up
<DanRabbit> too much detail for a small space
<DanRabbit> plus, optical media
<DanRabbit> we don't use optical media
<DanRabbit> it's going away
<DanRabbit> so those icons are going to have to go away pretty soon :)
<mac_v> DanRabbit: the progress icon is in the branch , they are jsut figuring a way to animate it ;) , the rest are still open to ideas 
<mac_v> just*
<DanRabbit> sweet :D
<DanRabbit> yea, the progress looks goof
<DanRabbit> good*
<mac_v> goofy? ;0
<DanRabbit> I meant to put good :)
 * mac_v was just teasing ;)
<DanRabbit> mac_v: hmm, I'll think about it
<DanRabbit> right now I can't think of anything better than the generic package installer icon I have now  :)
<mac_v> DanRabbit: me too , totally blank :(
<Mark__T> tedg: so what can I do to make pidgin-notify work again?
<tedg> Mark__T: You just need to add "indicator-gtk" to the PKG_CONFIG check.
<tedg> Mark__T: Sorry, indicate-gtk
<Mark__T> okay thx
<Mark__T> can't try before monday though
<tedg> Mark__T: Oh, and probably a "#include <libindicate-gtk/indicator.h>"
<Mark__T> will you ship these new splitup packages with 09.10?
<tedg> Mark__T, yes.
 * tedg misses jabber.
<djsiegel_> mrooney|w: hey, can you try to find where this bug belongs? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/387791
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 387791 in hundredpapercuts ""Do not disconnect" and "ok to disconnect" device notifications should not use the same icon" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<mrooney|w> Surely!
<mrooney|w> Want to unsubscribe papercutters from all papercut bugs? ;)
<djsiegel_> mrooney|w: hmm?
#ayatana 2009-08-29
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: hmm... the wireless/battery panel icons end up blurry > http://imagebin.ca/view/RgUfsKq.html , but the volume is fine , i believe its because the icons dont exist in the 24px 
<bratsche> Hey all.
<DanRabbit1> mac_v: I'm working on it :D
<DanRabbit1> I'm just trying to solve some issues with the monochrome status stuff, and then I'll scale
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: why does it have 5 signals? o.0
<mac_v> shouldn it be 4?
<DanRabbit1> Yea, but for the size and spacing and angle I wanted, I had to do 5
<DanRabbit1> do you think it's a really bad idea :p ?
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: hehe , yup , i'v already done one with correct scaling  , i'm not sure what you are talking about 
<DanRabbit1> done one what?
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: oh long time ago , just a sec , let me find it... its a different style but can be done similar
<DanRabbit1> Well, i wanted the bars to go up at a certain angle, and I wanted the bars to be a certain width, and I wanted the icon to have a certain width, and I couldn't satisfy that with 4 bars
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/nm-signal-75.svg
<mac_v> but angle? i dont notice any angle , they seem straight 
<mac_v> mine are a different width , than yours though
<DanRabbit1> I mean the angle from the shortest bar to the tallest bar
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/nm-signal-76.svg , just a quick edit to make it simialr to yours
<DanRabbit1> I only see 1 bar :p
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: oh its white , change the background
<DanRabbit1> o lol
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: whats your icon color?
<mac_v> #
<DanRabbit1> It's evolving right now
<DanRabbit1> I'm about to change it
<DanRabbit1> but currently, 717171ff
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/nm-signal-77.svg
<DanRabbit1> Yea, not the width or angle I want :D
<mac_v> ;p
<mac_v> you want 2px?
<DanRabbit1> yea
<DanRabbit1> It has to be approximately 15x15 pixels
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/nm-signal-78.svg
<DanRabbit1> and less spacing
<DanRabbit1> and it won't work
<DanRabbit1> I promise
<DanRabbit1> you can't have the width I want and the spacing I want and the total width I want
<DanRabbit1> they conflict
<mac_v> yup , i'v got an idea
<DanRabbit1> :p
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/nm-signal-60.svg
<DanRabbit1> oh, your smart as hell, aren't you ?
<mac_v> very rough work ;)
<DanRabbit1> that's very nice
<DanRabbit1> damn, your good
<DanRabbit1> could you do them all?
<mac_v> hehe ;)
<DanRabbit1> (because I'm lazy :D )
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: no probs  , its easy once you have the idea :)
<DanRabbit1> cool
<mac_v> DanRabbit1:  changes you want?
<mac_v> any*
<mac_v> or color wise?
<DanRabbit1> make the color whatever you think would be best for the default human theme
<DanRabbit1> don't worry about dark panels or anything like that
<DanRabbit1> I'm doing a branch for that
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: using the same color as the rest is better , you were mentioning something earlier about changing the color?
<DanRabbit1> Yea, I'm forking Humanity
<DanRabbit1> one for light panels and one for dark panels
<mac_v> i was saying this > <DanRabbit1> It's evolving right now
<mac_v> [12:04] <DanRabbit1> I'm about to change it
<mac_v> [12:04] <DanRabbit1> but currently, 717171ff
<mac_v> or was that about the fork?
<DanRabbit1> Yea, because that color is somewhere in the middle
<DanRabbit1> I tried to find a color that would look good for both
<DanRabbit1> but David is unhappy with the results
<mac_v> very tough , to find middle ground  , the easiest way is to add a background to the present ,
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: that way no probs with either panel
<DanRabbit1> If you want to give it a go, feel free
<DanRabbit1> otherwise, try 4D4D4Dff
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: same color 717171ff but added a background http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/nm-signal-61.png
<DanRabbit1> how's it look on white panels?
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/inwhite.png
<DanRabbit1> hmm
<DanRabbit1> any way to get it a little brighter on the dark panel?
<mac_v> in white panels, the background doesnt show , 
<mac_v> the shade could be lighter  , just a sec
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/black.png http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/newWhite.png
<DanRabbit1> no too bad :)
<DanRabbit1> Let's try those and see if that makes David happy :D
<lamalex> DanRabbit1: are humanity icons going to be karmic's icons?
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: which? do you think the color was wrong for with or for black?
<DanRabbit1> I don't know
<mac_v> white*
<DanRabbit1> mac_v: Ideally it'd be brighter on black and darker on white :D
<DanRabbit1> but, I think you've come the closest we're going to get
<DanRabbit1> it looks good
<DanRabbit1> lamalex: I'm pretty sure Neil said that they were going to be default in UNR
<lamalex> sweet, congrats
<lamalex> hope they make it into ubu proper
<DanRabbit1> but David said that Mark didn't like them enough to have them go in Ubuntu yet
<lamalex> would be a huge improvement
<DanRabbit1> supposedly they'll be in the community themes package or whatever though
<lamalex> Mark also wants vertically centered notification bubbles
<lamalex> just sayin ;)
<DanRabbit1> yea
<DanRabbit1> lol
<DanRabbit1> well
<DanRabbit1> sometimes I think he needs to rethink how much he knows about UI design
<DanRabbit1> no offense
<lamalex> "just sayin"
<mac_v> lamalex: i though he replied wanted to change it
<mac_v> but just testing for a few more days
<DanRabbit1> what I read was that he didn't really want to change it and he wanted to leave it until people really started complaining
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: right ;)
<DanRabbit1> not to be mean! not to be rude!
<lamalex> yah, not the same thing as wanting to change it at all
<DanRabbit1> I love Ubuntu
<DanRabbit1> but
<DanRabbit1> some people just don't have every talent in the world.
<mac_v> hehe , dont worry there is so much hate for it he is bound to change it ;)
<mac_v>  <DanRabbit1> sometimes I think he needs to rethink how much he knows about UI design , well said ;)
<DanRabbit1> haha, I don't know if I want that line quoted :D
<mac_v> lol , i hope irc log has some problem and keeps adding that to ayatana topic ;0
<DanRabbit1> oh god...
<DanRabbit1> anyhow!
<mac_v> back to the icon
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: you want it the darker for white? or the current color i showed is fine?
<DanRabbit1> if you can get it darker, that'd be awesome
<DanRabbit1> I really don't know how you're doing it
<mac_v> hehe ;) i'm adding a back ground for each signal  , it told you this earlier for some other icon
<DanRabbit1> might have been the battery
<DanRabbit1> either way, I suck at that
 * DanRabbit1 doesn't like admitting his faults, but he does anyways...
<mac_v> oh yeah... it was for the battery 
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/new-white.png , http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/new-black.png
<DanRabbit1> your old black one looked darker
<DanRabbit1> I like the more contrast for the not-filled bar though
<DanRabbit1> the white ones look like basically the same color
<DanRabbit1> I meant to say the old black one was brighter :D
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: hehe ;) , so which is better? hard to tell but gotta choose ;p
<DanRabbit1> the last one before
<DanRabbit1> 2nd to latest
<mac_v> ok
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: just to confirm , you want the full set with this color > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Final-black.png , http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Final-white.png
<DanRabbit1> yep, looking sexy
<mac_v> ok , :) 
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: ping , i'v got the icons ready :)
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: just realized ,  there is something inherently wrong with nm applet and how it deals with icons!
<tgpraveen1> hello what was the final decision taken on behaviour of notifications in full screen apps?
<nocturn> Hi, I just found out that the new notification bubbles in the middle of the screen are a design choice and not a bug
<nocturn> Anyone know the reasoning behind this move?
<DanRabbit1> mac_v: ping
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: nm has stupid coding! its uses only a part of the 22px grid , if anything is bigger it does some crappy scaling readjustment
<DanRabbit1> Yea, that's lame
<mac_v> that is why the icons are never clear!
<DanRabbit1> I know that the battery and volume manager applet does some weird crappy scaling
<mac_v> i'v figured it out for nm
<DanRabbit1> Is it something we can easily fix?
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: volume does no such scaling ,volume is perfect
<DanRabbit1> I dunno, volume looks crappy for me :/
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: yes we can workaround it...
<mac_v> nm
<DanRabbit1> I mean, do you think it'd be easy to push a fix to the applet upstream
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: i'm not sure about that , we need to ask asac
<mac_v> see the volume has no blurryness > http://imagebin.ca/view/RgUfsKq.html
<DanRabbit1> try a horizontal panel really quick
<mac_v> ah no... it rearranges the icons :(
<mac_v> ok wait
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: works fine with horizontal top panel
<DanRabbit1> here let me take a screen of mine
<DanRabbit1> http://elementary-project.com/abuse/Screenshot-1.png
<DanRabbit1> sharp nm, blurry volume
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: http://imagebin.ca/view/yx3p6R.html
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: lol how did you get the nm sharp?
<DanRabbit1> I did nothing :)
<DanRabbit1> The only thing different here is the color
<mac_v> weird , it works the opposite for me!
<DanRabbit1> btw, can I have your new nm icons?
<mac_v> nm blurry , volume sharp
<mac_v> just a sec 
<mac_v> damn! everything is so slow! , give me a min
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/nm.tar
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: got it, screenshot ? stupid thing doesnt show up properly for me :(
<DanRabbit1> wait, what?
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: i wonder the blurring is a notification area bug , for me the one on the left is blurry and so is for you , i dont think it has to do with the nm/volumeapplet
<DanRabbit1> it's possible that it's about placement
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: to test do a $pulseaudio -k
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: wait
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: first test the icon theme with the nm icons , see how it works , take a screenshot , then $pulseaudio -k
<DanRabbit1> okay
<DanRabbit1> give me a second
<DanRabbit1> okay, it looks good
<DanRabbit1> I've got a clear nm-applet still
<mac_v> let me see :) 
<DanRabbit1> hmm
<DanRabbit1> pulseaudio -k did nothing for me
<mac_v> didnt the audio icon switch?
<DanRabbit1> no
<mac_v> then do $killall pulseaudio
<mac_v> are you on jaunty or karmic?
<DanRabbit1> jaunty
<mac_v> hehe! 
<DanRabbit1> last time I tried Karmic it 'sploded my computer
<mac_v> thats the old volume applet in jaunty.
<DanRabbit1> http://elementary-project.com/abuse/Screenshot.png
<DanRabbit1> see pretty :D
<mac_v> do you dual boot?
<DanRabbit1> OSX and Jaunty
<hyperair> oho, that looks nice.
<mac_v> damn it! i cant use my own icon!
<DanRabbit1> mac_v: you've pretty much succeeded at making it look sexy on dark and light panels
<mac_v> :)
<mac_v> hmm , DanRabbit1  try to remove the the volume applet or move ti to the left
<mac_v> it*
<DanRabbit1> I did, it doesn't change
<DanRabbit1> I moved it all over the place :)
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: oh then there the applet bug is solved in karmic ;)
<mac_v> volume *
<DanRabbit1> hah
<DanRabbit1> Maybe, I'll try to upgrade again
<DanRabbit1> Do you know offhand if they support Intel GMA now?
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: solved because that applet has been deprecated and removed ;p
<DanRabbit1> lol
<mac_v> nope don know about GMA
<DanRabbit1> hehe
<DanRabbit1> mac_v: are you Robert Dryer?
<mac_v> who's he ? o.0
<DanRabbit1> okay nvm
<DanRabbit1> lol
<DanRabbit1> I want to put your name in special thanks in the AUTHORS file
<mac_v> you knwo where i'm from does that name sound even remotely similar ;p
<DanRabbit1> haha, you never know.
<mac_v> PM ->
<DanRabbit1> :D
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: keep the screenshot , might be handly when we report the bug
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: silly question , but just to check , did you unlock the notification area before you moved the volume applet?
<DanRabbit1> yes sir :D
<DanRabbit1> I tried locked and unlocked
<mac_v> :(\
 * mac_v adds another bug in his todo list
<DanRabbit1> haha
<DanRabbit> mac_v: any ideas for a wired icon?
 * mac_v checks the present one
<mac_v> DanRabbit: what have you got so far?
<DanRabbit> nothing :D
<DanRabbit> I have some errands to run though, so I'm out for a while :D
<DanRabbit> check out BZR, I changed the inactive color a little so It'd be more clear on a dark panel.
<DanRabbit> also, I applied the color changes to the battery and volume and messaging applets
<mac_v> nice ;) , works both ways 
<mac_v> DanRabbit: booo > "I don't think these icons are confusing taken in context. " ;p
<DanRabbit> haha
<DanRabbit> you think the sidebar icons are bad?
<DanRabbit> mac_v: ^
<mac_v> DanRabbit: i think they *will* confuse users :( , thats why with breathe we change the 16px
<mac_v> previously we did it similar
<mac_v> then we changed it
<mac_v> DanRabbit: the icons should represent themselves and not supposed to be taken from the context of the menu they are in 
<DanRabbit> I've never heard anyone complain about how finder does it :D
<mac_v> DanRabbit: you and david are tooo influenced by OSX
<mac_v> ;p
<DanRabbit> haha
<DanRabbit> it's a very pretty operating system
<DanRabbit> we both dual boot :D
<mac_v> OSX , does do several things right , but not all 
<DanRabbit> I agree
<DanRabbit> otherwise, I wouldn't be here
<DanRabbit> :p
<mac_v> as i said the icons should be able to convey the meaning by itself and for users who are familiar with only Windows , it would be confusing
<DanRabbit> oh god don't get me started on windows
<mac_v> hehe... ok pls dont get me started too
<DanRabbit> Ubuntu, Mac OS, computing in general is going to be difficult for a Windows user
<DanRabbit> I don't gauge things by how a Windows user would see it
<DanRabbit> otherwise you'd end up all ass-backwards
<mac_v> i dont think the windows to ubuntu migration is very difficult , i'v seen several take to it very quickly
<DanRabbit> I work with the hope that one day my mom will use a computer
<SiDi> mac_v: users coming from windows find EVERYTHING confusing
<SiDi> especially good design since they're not used to it
 * SiDi hides
<mac_v> SiDi: lol 
 * mac_v  thinks Penn&Teller should make a show about Windows
<mrooney> hello everyone
 * SiDi waves at mrooney 
<mac_v> DanRabbit: how about using the icon firefox , thunderird , evolution use for connect and disconnect ?
<mac_v> for wired^
<DanRabbit> what icon is that?
 * DanRabbit doesn't use firefox, thunderbird, or evolution
<mac_v> just open evolution , its the one of 2 plugs connected , at the bottom left
<DanRabbit> oh
<DanRabbit> mac_v: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/30986417/volume-nm-icons.png
<DanRabbit> both are sharp
<mac_v> in which? karmic or jaunty?
<mac_v> what theme?
<mac_v> gtk
<DanRabbit> skiki
<mac_v> DanRabbit: transparency for the inactive should be even lesser , especially for the dark themes
<DanRabbit> mmkay
<DanRabbit> I'm off to run errands :D
<DanRabbit> let me know if you come up with something better
<mac_v> nothing more than that :) , only thing i would adjust would be the transparency
<mac_v> DanRabbit: hmm... did you check the volume/nm icon from the ~/.icons folder or from /usr/share/ ? i think that makes a difference :(
<mac_v> i'v now moved the same icons to the usr/share and i too dont see blurriness
<dashua> mac_v, DanRabbit Can you change indicator applet as well in Humanity to the scale you did the volume and nm-applet icons?
<dashua> Shades are much better, just can't see the connection animation
<mac_v> dashua: yeah i think the i-a needs to be done
<mac_v> dashua: which connection animation?
<mac_v> the firefox like one?
<dashua> Spinner
<dashua> Yeah
<dashua> A grey scale one would be cool like the other two you did.
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/23217/screenshot_006_56N9y1.png
<dashua> That looks much better
<mac_v> hehe , i have an idea for that ;) but havent mentioned to DanRabbit yet, because he has already done the connection animation :)
<dashua> Ah ok
<dashua> Breathe should inherit this panel icons.  They're awesome.
<dashua> these*
<dashua> mac_v, indicator-applet-sus broken for you?
<dashua> I have no icon on any set.
<mac_v> dashua: yup , no icon , known issue , already fixed upstream 
<dashua> Ah cool
<mac_v> dashua: hehe mention the panels to cory ;p
<dashua> I will.  They just add a professional feel to Breathe.  
<dashua> Nice work
<mac_v> dashua: thanks... actually all i did was edit the colors , and make an nm icon set to fit the theme , basically it was DanRabbit 
<mac_v> idea
<dashua> Nice work to you both :)
<mac_v> dashua: Cory would probably kill me , why i didnt do this for breathe ;p
<dashua> Hehe.  You better run and hide when I make the suggestion.  I just have Breathe inherit Humanity instead of Human
<mac_v> i'm using humanity inherits too ;)
#ayatana 2009-08-30
<mac_v> DanRabbit: ping
<arvind_k> hi, the new notify-osd  doesnt work properly, the bubble comes in the centre of the screen.even though its been fixed in launchpad its not being fixed upstream, why is it so?
<maxb> What is the rationale for changing the location of notify-osd in Karmic?
<arvind_k> maxb, look into LP
<arvind_k> maxb, to fix it... and i really dont understand why notifications must come in centre of the screen
<maxb> I don't think LP is the answer here. This is not a bug, it's the designers (from my perspective) changing things without adequate consideration for the users.
<mac_v> maxb: the discussion is ging on in ayatana mailing list about this
<mac_v> going*
<mac_v> arvind_k: ^
#ayatana 2010-08-30
<sense> good afternoon
<devildante> is it normal that the datetime indicator doesn't show?
<gambs> devildante: Apparently.
<gambs> Several people have mentioned that it's been stripped out.
<gambs> (But, as I use indicator-complete, I hadn't noticed XD)
<devildante> but I liked it :(
<gambs> You can get it back.
<devildante> gambs: installing -complete made it return! thanks :)
 * devildante wonders why -complete is not default - they wouldn't have to bother with *two* indicator applets
<gambs> Complete isn't default because the network indicator and datetime are ready fro primetime last I heard.
<gambs> So, desktop will use the old clock applet still.
<gambs> (For instance, my datetime indicator doesn't update what day it is on the calendar unless I restart my computer... So, it still says it's Saturday)
<devildante> mmm... thanks gambs :)
<gambs> No problem!
<meebey> kenvandine: do you know if twitter finds it acceptable to ship the api key in source but not regular binary distribution (as hidden in binary content)
<meebey> or dont they like if "forks" or different distros will use the same key
<kenvandine> meebey, the compromise i came to them was separating the key from the source
<kenvandine> by putting the key in packaging
<meebey> kenvandine: even if the source is not the regular distribution? as its not python...
<kenvandine> however, if anyone abuses it they will shut it down
<meebey> hrmpf
<kenvandine> they just don't want it to be very discovera ble
<meebey> kenvandine: source isnt, it needs lots of skillz
<kenvandine> if they disable the key, we need to get an update out with the new key
<meebey> true
<meebey> so better to allow to pass it at buildtime
<meebey> without shipping it in the regular source
<kenvandine> yeah... and frankly it is easier to go to dev.twitter.com and register a new app than to go digging in bzr for someone else's :)
<kenvandine> but oh well... :)
<meebey> yes
<meebey> kind if stupid
<meebey> s/if/of/
<meebey> hm
<kenvandine> yeah... they aren't really focused on our use case... desktop apps aren't the top of their priority stack
<meebey> actually I have an idea
<meebey> hrhr
<meebey> I will include a default key that is replacable at buildtime
<meebey> if it ever gets abused
<kenvandine> yeah
<meebey> distros can simply replace it
<meebey> ^^
<kenvandine> gwibber is doing that too now :)
<kenvandine> yup
<meebey> :)
<kenvandine> we are including a default key that we don't care if it gets shutdown
<meebey> yep
<kenvandine> and provide an override mechanism for distros to use their own
<meebey> do you use a differet name for that one or something?
<kenvandine> same variable names
<kenvandine> but they come from a different file
<kenvandine> which isn't included in gwibber source
<kenvandine> but in the package
<kenvandine> if that file exists, it uses it for overrides
<kenvandine> so you can override any default setting
<kenvandine> not just the key
<meebey> kenvandine: ic
<meebey> kenvandine: with name I meant the software name though in the twitter app db
<kenvandine> oh... that is tied to the key
<meebey> Gwibber Official, Gwibber FOSS, etc
<kenvandine> so nothing in code
<meebey> or just Gwibber for all?
<meebey> or shows the name in the tweet though
<meebey> thats why I ask
<kenvandine> it shows the name associated with the key
<kenvandine> so for Ubuntu, it now says "from Ubuntu"
<kenvandine> instead of from Gwibber
<meebey> hm ic
<meebey> Gwibber (Ubuntu) would have been nicer probably
<meebey> ^^
<kenvandine> that is up to the app owner on twitter
<meebey> I think I will use Smuxi (default key in source), Smuxi Official, Smuxi ($Distro) if neeed someday
<kenvandine> well the owner of the key controls that name, the app developer doesn't
<meebey> I know
<meebey> as I upstream and downstream though
<meebey> ^^
<meebey> +am
<kenvandine> true
<meebey> I do control that
<kenvandine> but if fedora packages it then they control it
<kenvandine> for example
<meebey> indeed
<meebey> thats why I want to give good example :)
<kenvandine> :)
<meebey> so --engine-twitter-engine needs an optional parameter, righto
<meebey> errr --enable-twitter-engine
<meebey> kenvandine: I just made indicate and notify deps optional for the backwards distros
<kenvandine> cool
<meebey> say non-debian and non-ubuntu ones
<meebey> ^^
<meebey> notify-sharp seems to be more spread though
<meebey> do you know if inidicate is available elsewhere?
<meebey> I would prefere makign the default to "yes" and not "auto"
<meebey> but only if the major distros ship it
<kenvandine> i know foresight does
<meebey> kenvandine: is gwibber also using them as optional builddeps?
<kenvandine> but not sure about others
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> well optional runtime
<meebey> ah ic
 * kenvandine hugs python
<kenvandine> :)
<meebey> its doable in C# too but its nasty, needs black magic
<meebey> kenvandine: will gwibber break in the 1st sep?
<meebey> s/in/on/
<kenvandine> if this update isn't out yet
<kenvandine> well sort of... it'll stop working with twitter
<meebey> hehe, I am not alone then...
<meebey> yeah I meant the twitter support of it
<kenvandine> lots of people are behind..
<meebey> this has good and bad sides
<meebey> good is that most crappy apps will now simply die, finally
<kenvandine> i think pino won't work either
<meebey> bad is that is puts so much stress on us
<kenvandine> yeah, and i need to backport this for lucid and get an SRU
<kenvandine> :/
<meebey> the JSON parser that Twitterizer uses (the twitter lib that smuxi uses) has a bug currently, making it a showstopper :/
<meebey> kenvandine: thanks for the nice chat! going back to hackery...
<kenvandine> np
<kenvandine> good luck :)
<foo123> I don't suppose I can get support for using libindicator here? I'm having a signal problem
<foo123> I am using pygtk and appindicator and it appears that I am not receiving most signals. I would like a signal that I can use to determine when the indicator menu is being displayed.
#ayatana 2010-08-31
<foo123> is the C/C++ interface for libindicator more stable than the python one?
<foo123> hello?
<RAOF> foo123: Probably a bit late for most of the members of this channel.
<RAOF> And what do you mean by âstableâ in this instance (it's got multiple distinct meanings, sadly)
<foo123> submenus have a reversed order
<foo123> it flickers badly
<foo123> I can't seem to get any signal that would indicate if the menu is visible
<foo123> topic_menu_item.set_state(gtk.STATE_INSENSITIVE) makes the item insensitive
<foo123> but I can't set it back
<RAOF> I'm not sure about that.
<RAOF> So, you're using the âdoes what the API docs describeâ meaning of âstabilityâ, then :)
<foo123> set_state(gtk.STATE_NORMAL) does not make it senstive again
<foo123> but .set_sensitive(True) works go figure
<foo123> the big problem is I don't seem to get any events except the 4 useless appindicator events and the menu "activated" one
<foo123> and that if I make a menu a submenu the items are ordered from bottom to top but if I make it a regular menu it is ordered correctly... WHY?!?!
<foo123> anyone know anything about indicators?
<nigelb> !ask | foo123
<ubot5> foo123: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<foo123> I already asked my question ...
<RAOF> foo123: Describing what you're actually trying to do will probably result in a better class of response.
<RAOF> Although, again, that response is likely to require waiting until the ayatana people are actually awake :)
<foo123> no problem, what time is usually good?
<RAOF> UK working hours are generally good.
<RAOF> (So, in around 8 hours) :)
<RAOF> But, although I'm not particularly familiar with the details of appindicators, it sounds to me like you're possibly trying to do something they're not designed for.
<Cimi> hi chaotic
<chaotic> Cimi: morning
<Cimi> skype man? :)
<Cimi> chaotic ^^
<chaotic> Cimi: just got a few things I need to do quickly - I'll get hold of you in about 10 mins if that's ok
<Cimi> cool
<Cimi> I'll wait
<Cimi> as always, ott's minutes last twice :))
<klattimer> Cimi: I'm really enjoying your new theme
<klattimer> keep up the good work :)
<Cimi> thanks karl
<chaotic> Cimi: actually they last 4 times longer :)
<chaotic> Cimi: be there soon
<Cimi> ok
<klattimer> mpt, seb128 I've just sent you an email regarding the gsd indicator
<klattimer> mpt I hope this makes you a little happier with them :)
<JanCBorchardt> vish, just saw that you assigned a bug from papercuts to null, should we do that with bugs that are not relevant to papercuts? (this seems to be the only way to unsubscribe papercutters)
<vish> JanCBorchardt: yeah, if they are not ppc just switch them over to null
<vish> JanCBorchardt: we get enough mails already ;)
<JanCBorchardt> vish, cool, I searched for a way to do that just the other day ;)
<vish> JanCBorchardt: usually if bug was reported only in ppc, i switch it over to the relevant bug task, if the relevant bug task is already there it goes to null
<JanCBorchardt> vish, yep, thanks. I accidentally didnât switch over then but made it to affect the other project as well.
<JanCBorchardt> vish, oh and have you thought about the redirection after unmount thing?
<JanCBorchardt> vish, and I just saw that you already nulled the copy-paste bug in the past to no avail ;)
<klattimer> mpt: I'd like your comment on this; https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-ubuntu/+bug/620331
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 620331 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "please drop icon from keyboard indicator (affected: 1, heat: 10)" [Low,In progress]
<mpt> klattimer, sent
<klattimer> mpt: replied to you and cc'd mark and tedg as mark's been following this one
<klattimer> thing is, we can probably produce all the icons we need now, and use them
<klattimer> would be good if ivanka or davidbarth could look into getting the art done
<bcurtiswx> hey all, idk if this is a indicator or gwibber issue, but when I'm actively viewing gwibber, why are entries for @replies still showing up in the indicator-me ?
<bcurtiswx> i.e i see an @reply visually on gwibber, and it still shows an entry in indicator-me
<bcurtiswx> the applet. sorry
<foo123> Is the C indicator API less broken than the python one? Right now I have a few issues. My app does not receive signals, underlines are not usable as menu labels, submenus have a reversed order, and the menu items flicker when they are updated. Not to mention to disintuitiveness of "remove from panel" when you right click on the icon
<klattimer> foo123: I have the signals problem with ibus
<klattimer> if you hang on a tick I'll find you the bug number so you can add your comment
<klattimer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/564034
<ubot5> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list.index(x): x not in list (https://launchpad.net/bugs/564034)
<klattimer> there you go
<foo123> The qustion is should I bother rewriting my indicator in C or should I give up on indicators and go back to implementing it as a panel applet
<klattimer> foo123: definitely stick to the indicators
<klattimer> tedg: is probably working on the bugs in the python bindings
<foo123> I am getting the impression that the bugs are not being fixed for 10.04 LTS
<klattimer> foo123: you'd have to ask tedg about that
<klattimer> I know sense has fixed one of the bugs you talked about
<klattimer> or maybe the same bug, dunno https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/608219
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 608219 in Application Indicators "Submenus not added when done so with Glade (affected: 1, heat: 103)" [Undecided,In progress]
<tedg> foo123, It's hard to get things backported, but if there is a bug, I have no issue trying to help.
<tedg> foo123, Sorry, I was in a meeting.
<foo123> I'm trying to figure out what I should do from a LTS standpoint
<foo123> I think it might be better for me to wait for the next LTS release at this point
<foo123> I need the signals problem fixed so that I can get dynamic menus to work without consuming cpu while unused and to keep it from flickering
<foo123> I dont know if the submenus being in reverse order is apython thing or not
<foo123> and the underline bug #611943 is something I need fixed
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 611943 in Application Indicators "menu items don't respect set_use_underline (affected: 1, heat: 10)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/611943
<foo123> If these can't get fixed for lucid I'll need to go back to regular applets until the next LTS
#ayatana 2010-09-01
<klattimer> morning seb128
<klattimer> do you have any new bugs for me?
<seb128> hey klattimer
 * klattimer is just starting on the rhythmbox bug
<seb128> sorry I didn't reply to your email yesterday, I started trying to get some bugs but it was late and stopped
<seb128> I think you can close this one since we dropped the indicator change
<klattimer> heh, no worries dude
<seb128> now the sound menu is used
<klattimer> yeah, but it isn't about the indicator issue
<klattimer> it's about the playing/not playing issue now
<klattimer> so when it's not playing, rhythmbox should exit
<seb128> oh, I though you were speaking about the ctrl-W one
<klattimer> I can fix that I believe with a minimum change
<klattimer> seb128: yeah I am, but if you look at mpt's comment #8
<klattimer> it's no longer about the ctrl-w thing, as that bug is actually fixed
<klattimer> the issue is with the behaviour of rhythmbox after the shortcut key is pressed
<seb128> ok, makes sense
<klattimer> The bug should have been renamed tbh
<seb128> can you do that?
<seb128> klattimer, while you are on rhythmbox, bug #618944
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 618944 in libindicate (Ubuntu Maverick) "rhythmbox crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke() (affected: 12, heat: 192)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/618944
<seb128> klattimer, I've assigned it to you
<seb128> not sure if the bug is in rhythmbox or in the indicator stack
<seb128> it seems to crash this way every time you close it
<klattimer> seb128: is it reproducible? this might also be the cause of or a duplicate of https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/606052
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 606052 in Application Indicators "indicator-application-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke() (affected: 2, heat: 16)" [High,Incomplete]
<seb128> klattimer, it happens every time I close rhythmbox there
<seb128> can you try if you have the issue as well?
<klattimer> i will once my box stops going insane :/
<klattimer> grr looks like I've got a weird memory leak in gsd
<klattimer> probably my fault :/
<klattimer> shit
<klattimer> 85% cpu and 40% memory
<seb128> klattimer, oh, I noticed g-s-d tends to crash when removing the indicator applet
<seb128> I guess if you could investigate the leak and that you have enough for today
<klattimer> ok, I'll try and resolve these two issues before i move on to rhythmbox
<klattimer> seb128: know of a way of getting print messages out of gsd
<klattimer> I'm still coding it blind
<seb128> gnome-settings-daemon --no-daemon --debug
<seb128> stop the running instance before though
<klattimer> k
<klattimer> cheers
<seb128> klattimer, bug #624477 could be due to your changes as well I'm not sure, it lacks details to be worked right now I think
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 624477 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Gnome Settings Daemon uses 100% CPU load (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/624477
<klattimer> seb128: yeah I think that's my fault
<klattimer> pretty sure I know the cause of it too
<seb128> great ;-)
<klattimer> xkl_engine_save_state triggers a state-changed signal, which then calls a function which xkl_engine_save_state's again, ad infinitum
<klattimer> it's a relatively easy fix too
<klattimer> and may also prevent the memory leak
<klattimer> my biggest worry is that I might be triggering a leak in libgnomexkb
<klattimer> hey seb128 you're unassigning my bugs?
<seb128> klattimer, sorry, I was reviewing your assigned buglist and I figured you would probably not work on those now since we are after freeze and you have other things to keep you busy until the end of the week
<klattimer> ok cool
<seb128> klattimer, you still want to work on those?
<klattimer> gajim was on my list after rhythmbox
<seb128> oh ok
<klattimer> and the keyboard layout sometimes changes is an interesting one I'd like to keep track of
<seb128> I figured it would be better to do hplip since it's the default installation
<seb128> where gajim is just yet another im client
<klattimer> seb128: IIRC we're waiting on something in QT before I can do that
<seb128> what about apport?
<klattimer> yeah, I'll do that one
<seb128> ok, excellent
<klattimer> that's kinda important if we want people to help us track bugs
<klattimer> because AFAIK we're removing the notification area soon
<seb128> next cycle
<klattimer> oh, right
<klattimer> ok
<seb128> we still have nm-applet there for this cycle at least so we can't drop it
<klattimer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/627838 < pretty big usability fail
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 627838 in Application Indicators ""Remove from Panel" removes all of the indicators (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> yes :-(
<klattimer> from the specs I think it says we want to remove the right click menu from all applets in the end
<klattimer> is that correct?
<seb128> klattimer, apport is ui frozen though for maverick now, so if you want to do gajim maybe just do it
<klattimer> k
<seb128> I doubt we will do a lot on gnome-panel applets now
<seb128> in the next cycle we will likely go for the new world
<seb128> neither unity nor gnome-shell use applets
<seb128> so that's an issue that will go away by itself
<klattimer> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-ubuntu/+bug/599844
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 599844 in Ayatana Ubuntu "Port the keyboard indicator in gsd to use the app. indicator protocol (affected: 1, heat: 12)" [Medium,Fix released]
<klattimer> new patch for fixing the cpu/mem issue
<seb128> ok
<seb128> it combines the previous change and the fix then?
<klattimer> yeah
<seb128> klattimer, hum, you added the wrong change
<klattimer> ?
<seb128> klattimer, the content doesn't seems to be g-s-d code
<klattimer> oops :/ sorry
<seb128> no worry ;-)
<klattimer> one double click off by a few pixels
<klattimer> the right one has been uploaded now
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I will test that locally and get it in after the beta freeze
<klattimer> excellent
<klattimer> davidbarth: do you want me to draw these icons soon? or do you want me to concentrate on proper bugs?
<davidbarth> klattimer: hi karl
<davidbarth> klattimer: i just wanted to record that this icon story has been going for a while, but now it feels really late to me
<davidbarth> klattimer: so to answer your question, yes, i'd rather have you concentrate on proper bugs
<davidbarth> klattimer: that's what this part of the development cycle is for now ;)
<klattimer> davidbarth: there are TWO icon stories
<klattimer> the ibus one, which is the old one
<klattimer> and the new g-s-d one
<davidbarth> klattimer: oh, and the m17 icons are ibus?
<klattimer> yep
<davidbarth> ugh, i'll never get used to it
<klattimer> heh
<davidbarth> anyway, both are late
<klattimer> for ibus, there's probably another 50 or so icons which aren't in m17n
<klattimer> but m17n covers the majority of the icons which would be used
<klattimer> davidbarth: I only just produced the patch to add flag support as a result of some community members kicking up a fuss about not having them anymore
<klattimer> the g-s-d patch would need a little reworking to make it even better but as for now, the people who want flags, can have flags
<davidbarth> klattimer: i don't think we'll want to land that patch; it's fine that it's available, but what we really want is the letter code solution mpt described
<klattimer> davidbarth: the patch also fixes a CPU and memory bug now
<klattimer> so it needs to be landed
<klattimer> the show flags is not the default however
<klattimer> as it's set in a hidden gconf key
<davidbarth> i'd rather not had that key if we know we're not going to support it in the next version
<klattimer> when we want to have the letter code/box solution mpt described all we need to do is slightly modify the patch and set the default key to on
<davidbarth> as soon as you add a key, it means people will use it and be annoyed when it gets removed
<klattimer> davidbarth: the key has existed for some time
<klattimer> it's not something I've added
<davidbarth> ah ok
<klattimer> but having it, gives us a clear route to the solution we want
<davidbarth> how?
<davidbarth> because if brings back some dynamic icon code path?
<klattimer> well, we have a way of displaying themed icons in the indicator right now
<davidbarth> k
<klattimer> davidbarth: also, I have a feeling that someone has already created symbolic icons which match mpt's spec
<davidbarth> klattimer: technically, the new patch should be added to a new bug that explains the CPU and mem issue you fixed
<klattimer> as per the icon in this screenshot
<klattimer> http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/7358/screenshotnw.png
<davidbarth> because of the freeze process now
<davidbarth> sweet
<klattimer> davidbarth: there is another bug for the cpu/mem issue
<klattimer> the patch was added to the gsd bug because it seems more appropriate a place to put it
<klattimer> as it doesn't just deal with the bug itself
<klattimer> davidbarth: here's the cpu/mem bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/624477
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 624477 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Gnome Settings Daemon uses 100% CPU load (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Low,Fix committed]
<davidbarth> seb128: ok, to keep the patch on the old bug? or would you prefer it to move to the cpu/mem issue one?
<seb128> davidbarth, klattimer: let g-s-d things as they are bug wise, no need of extra comments on bugs
<seb128> we will just get the updated patch in after beta, it adds support for something that was in lucid and not ported yet and which is not on by default
<seb128> there is no need to bother asking exception for it, we will just update as a bug fix after beta rather
<davidbarth> klattimer: btw, i'm reviewing your bugs quickly
<davidbarth> klattimer: cleaing up the n-osd assignments in particular
<klattimer> davidbarth: I think I only took on two notify osd bugs
<klattimer> the ones I thought could be fixed fastest
<klattimer> app-indicators took priority so I only managed a fix for one
<davidbarth> ok
<klattimer> seb128: I'm checking out this rhythmbox bug
<klattimer> and I can confirm it happens
<seb128> that's a start ;-)
<klattimer> the only thing is, I can't find a patch which enables the sound menu indicator in rhythmbox
<klattimer> any hints as to where the code lies would be most appreciated
<seb128> 16_ubuntu_ayatana_register.patch
<seb128> it's very simplist
<klattimer> seb128: surely that can't be ALL of the code?
<klattimer> i was looking at that exact file
<seb128> it is, we don't have an appindicator
<seb128> it's just doing registration
<klattimer> yeah, I thought there'd be a plugin or something
<seb128> then doing mpris over dbus
<seb128> with indicator-sound
<klattimer> oh, right now it's starting to click
<klattimer> hmm, so this is a difficult bug to fix then, as it seems impossible that the ayatana patch could cause that crash to happen
<seb128> that's why I assigned that to libindicate and not rhythmbox
<seb128> tedg might have an idea there?
<klattimer> oh, I thought it was assigned to rhythmbox
<seb128> klattimer, if you think it's rather a ted bug feel free to bounce him back to him and focus on things you can do easily
<seb128> -him
<seb128> there is no point for you to dive into code you don't know for half a day to fix that
<klattimer> seb128: in that case, it is a duplicate
<seb128> of what bug?
<klattimer> hang on I marked them the other way round
<klattimer> seb128: bug 606052
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 606052 in Application Indicators "indicator-application-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke() (dup-of: 618944)" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606052
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 618944 in libindicate (Ubuntu Maverick) "rhythmbox crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke() (affected: 14, heat: 202)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/618944
<klattimer> I checked the stack trace, they have slightly different causes, but they're the same bug
<seb128> ok, nice catch
<seb128> it's rather a bug for ted I guess, right?
<klattimer> looks like it
<klattimer> I can still work on it if tedg is busy?
<seb128> tedg, ^
<seb128> klattimer, do you know the concerned codebase or not?
<seb128> klattimer, I think it would make sense to focus on things you know so you can some extra ones done rather than spending a day learning some new part of the stack to debug it
<seb128> tedg, do you think you will have time to debug that one?
<klattimer> seb128: have I known any codebase I've encountered so far? no... but it doesn't bother me much
<klattimer> :)
<seb128> right, it's just that efficiency might be better working on things you know
<seb128> klattimer, maybe start on another until ted replies?
<seb128> you can still investigate that one tomorrow if the has no time for it
<klattimer> sure
<kklimonda> hum, why there is no indicator-sound-dbgsym package?
<klattimer> seb128: I added a slightly updated patch to the g-s-d bug
<klattimer> this time to either/or the icon/label
<seb128> ok
<klattimer> I think this way is best, as it means one gconf change and a new set of icons added to the theme in order to display the [ GB ] or [ RU ] as mpt specified
<klattimer> ... the question is, can something like that be done mid cycle if the code is identical, or do you prefer that it's left until the next cycle?
<kklimonda> tedg: ping
<seb128> klattimer, I doubt we will change that in stable update
<seb128> but we will get it next cycle
<klattimer> shame
<klattimer> it would be nice in LTS
<seb128> well the lts was 6 months ago
<seb128> well not exactly yet, but last cycle
<seb128> we don't have libappindicator supporting icons there etc
<kklimonda> seb128: what is important at this stage? crash fixing or functionality fixing?
<tedg> re
<seb128> kklimonda, whatever is an issuer for the userexperience fixing
<seb128> crashes being annoying issues and high on the list usually
<seb128> wb tedg
<seb128> ok, I'm away for an hour
<seb128> bbl
<kklimonda> seb128: tedg: indicator-sound crashes when rhythmbox is playing something mounted over gvfs, I can fix the crash easily but getting art to display may take more work
<seb128> kklimonda, conor is working on that
<seb128> it's the artwork fetching
<kklimonda> yeah
<ronoc> kklimonda: hi, I'm working on a fix right now for the remote arturl
<ronoc> will be in tmrw's release
<kklimonda> ronoc: thanks, I can't use sound menu since I've imported my library ;)
<tedg> kklimonda, Okay, so is that the one that's a libindicate bug?  Do you have a fix for that?
<ronoc> kklimonda: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~cjcurran/indicator-sound/remote-art-handling
<ronoc> have it working just need to tidy a few things
<kklimonda> ronoc: hmm.. why do you check http:// ? that's not the only case :)
<ronoc> kklimonda: true, I have more code to push this is just a first cut
<kklimonda> ronoc: why not use Gvfs?
<kklimonda> tedg: nah, ronoc is working on it - I can poke him now! :)
<kklimonda> seb128: and in bug 626379, would it be enough to stop g-s-d from crashing? That's pretty simple fix for an edge case (that should never happen but obviously it does)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 626379 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in g_main_context_dispatch() (affected: 1, heat: 1736)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/626379
<tedg> Ah, okay.  kklimonda you'd be surprised how much work I pass off on ronoc ;)
<kklimonda> unfortunately I can't reproduce g-s-d crash so investigating it isn't simple..
<ronoc> Cimi: ping !
#ayatana 2010-09-02
<Cimi> ronoc: pong
<ronoc> hi Cimi
<ronoc> I was speaking with chaotic yesterday and we noticed the rounded album art actually clips the album severely reducing its area by a bit too much
<Cimi> yep
<ronoc> it also doesn't look square ?
<ronoc> I filed a bug
 * ronoc searches for bug no.
<Cimi> I haven't tried it yet
<ronoc> its in 0.4.1 which is in maverick
<ronoc> Cimi: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/indicator-sound/+bug/627962
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 627962 in The Sound Menu "album art not square (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Low,Confirmed]
<ronoc> do you have time to look at this ?
<Cimi> not much time but if it's easy yes
<ronoc> Cimi: no worries, let me know if you time to look at it, if not I will get around to it
<Cimi> ronoc: for the moment no
<Cimi> I mean, if you can afford this it's better for me to work on my tasks
<Cimi> at first glance it seems the area is wrong, at least you have to do a cairo_translate or draw 0.5px of offset
<ronoc> okay grand will take a look
<davidbarth> Cimi: Hi man, the new radiance is superb! ;)
<Cimi> thank you
<klattimer> Cimi: how about, having the application indicator spacing based on screen width
<klattimer> it's useful that you can slide between them, and on a HUGE screen, I'd like a bigger target
<klattimer> on a small screen it makes sense to use less spacing
<Cimi> could be but i'm not the right man to ask those things :)
<klattimer> meh. it's just and idea
<klattimer> :)
<Cimi> ivanka: iainfarrell pls ask otto to come (he is working with the wallpaper)
<iainfarrell> Hi Cimi
<Cimi> hi iain!
<iainfarrell> he's away from his desk just now
<Cimi> ok
<iainfarrell> will ping him when he's back
<davidbarth> Cimi: hey man, kvalo just mentioned that on irc https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/538499
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 538499 in light-themes (Ubuntu) "warning spam on stdout: CRITICAL **: murrine_style_draw_box_gap: assertion `height >= -1' failed (affected: 104, heat: 492)" [Medium,Triaged]
<davidbarth> Cimi: which is an annoying bug for emacs users
<davidbarth> Cimi: the bug itself is not critical, but if you can think of a good way to get rid of it, millions of emacs users would thank you ;)
<Cimi> vi >> emacs
<Cimi> (not true, just kidding :D )
<nigelb> its true :p
<Cimi> well, I don't know where this bug comes from :D
<Cimi> davidbarth: how can i reproduce it?
<Cimi> I have installe emacs
<davidbarth> launch emacs from a terminal and you should see the error messages
<davidbarth> Cimi: ^^
<Cimi> yep
<Cimi> no bug here
<Cimi> davidbarth: ok, the bug is not reproduceable with the new light themes
<Cimi> it seems it depends on GtkRange::trough-under-steppers = 0
<Cimi> which is used by old ambiance
<Cimi> but, looking at the patch, sounds more like a bug in emacs itself
<Cimi> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/52700148/shut-up-warning.diff
<Cimi> this is the patch in murrine, quite ugly
<davidbarth> Cimi: hmm, contract-based programming, no need to bother with the bozos, in a way ;)
<Cimi> davidbarth: yeah but "it's not my problem" is not the answer I would like to give
<Cimi> it's not professional
<bratsche> Hey htorque
<htorque> hey
<bratsche> Do you still get the errors that you described here?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/appmenu-gtk/+bug/624100
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 624100 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu) "dbus_g_proxy_begin_call: assertion `!DBUS_G_PROXY_DESTROYED (proxy)' failed (affected: 1, heat: 495)" [Undecided,New]
<htorque> just checked it some minutes ago - i'm no longer seeing the dbus related critical warning but still the "drawable is not a pixmap or window" one
<bratsche> htorque: Any chance you could build the branch I attached there and see if that fixes it?
<bratsche> I'm not able to see either of the errors, so I don't know how to verify if it's fixed.
<htorque> i can try to reproduce it on a maverick install i did some days ago - should be "cleaner"
<htorque> bratsche, not seeing any of those two warnings with the fresh maverick install
<bratsche> Hmm.. I hate it when bugs mysteriously disappear. :)
<htorque> bratsche, but on this machine i'm still at 0.1.7-0ubuntu1
<htorque> will update
 * htorque off for a restart
<htorque> bratsche, i purged and re-installed appmenu-gtk & co., and now i'm no longer seeing the warnings
<bratsche> Hmm, okay.
<bratsche> htorque: Thanks very much!
<htorque> bratsche, np - i think i will reinstall this system... don't wanna spam LP with bugs no one can reproduce ;)
<bratsche> heh
<htorque> bratsche, maybe i cannot reproduce those warnings anymore because the global nautilus menu doesn't seem to work right now (that i can reproduce on the other system). some menu items don't work at all while others trigger wrong functions.
<htorque> other applications work fine
<bratsche> htorque: Uhh.. that's news to me.  What menu is working wrong?  I need to test this out. :)
<htorque> bratsche, in a desktop session: eg. File -> Close does nothing, Go -> Template opens the Network folders properties
<bratsche> File -> Close in what app?
<htorque> nautilus
<htorque> only nautilus
<bratsche> That's working just fine for me.
<bratsche> I just tried it.
 * bratsche reinstalls appmenu-gtk from apt
<bratsche> Yeah, I just reinstalled appmenu-gtk on my Meerkat laptop and Close still worked for me.
<htorque> that's weird cause i'm seeing this on two different systems
<bratsche> htorque: Have you been running Unity inside a Gnome session by any chance?
<htorque> when it was released, but only a couple of times - on the second system: no. but i have it installed on both machines.
<htorque> bratsche, after logging out and logging in again, it seems to work just fine. if i can find a way to reliably reproduce it in a VM, i'll open a bug report
<bratsche> htorque: seb128 was able to reproduce it, but it's because he sometimes runs Unity inside his Desktop session and they're both running on the same session bus.
<htorque> i definitely haven't run unity inside a desktop session for the past months
<htorque> bratsche, try this: start a desktop session with the applet in the panel, start nautilus, close nautilus via the global menu, repeat this another three times, the fifth time you start nautilus, the global menu should only show "File Edit" - close nautilus, remove and re-add the applet, start nautilus -> now the complete global menu shows up but the menu items don't work or trigger wrong functions. i can reproduce this on two different systems and a
<htorque> VM and it seems to only affect nautilus. for your viewing pleasure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DarLUN8LmL8
<bratsche> Ah, fucked up.  Thanks. :)
<htorque> bratsche, another way (the way i initially triggered it, i guess): start a desktop session without the applet, open and close nautilus four times, add the applet, open nautilus -> same behavior
<htorque> heh, yeah, some nice weird bug
<bratsche> That's definitely got to be a bug in appmenu-gtk then.
<htorque> should i open a bug report? if so, any additional files you want me to add?
<bratsche> Yeah, do you mind opening a bug against appmenu-gtk and assigning to me?
<htorque> will do
<bratsche> Thanks dude!
<htorque> bratsche, apparently i can't assign anyone to a bug, see bug 628983
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 628983 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu) "Nautilus: menu items not working or triggering wrong functions (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628983
<bratsche> I took it.
<bratsche> Thanks!
<bratsche> I'm going to go grab some lunch now though.
<bratsche> htorque: After you open 5 Nautilus windows, are you just getting the "Desktop" menu or are you getting a normal Nautilus menu that just doesn't work right?
<htorque> bratsche, with the applet present, the fifth time i open a window, it shows "File Edit", after removing and re-adding the applet i'm getting the normal menu, it just doesn't work
<bratsche> k
#ayatana 2010-09-03
<meebey> kenvandine: \o/ https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smuxi/+bug/629159
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 629159 in smuxi (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Sync smuxi 0.8-1 (Universe) from Debian experimental (main) (affected: 2, heat: 14)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<meebey> kenvandine: working oauth :)
<meebey> kenvandine: and ayatana awesomeness
<RAOF> meebey: Ooooh, yes please!
<bilalakhtar> vish: You got a 'Thank You' from sabdfl! congrats! :D
<vish> bilalakhtar: hmm,k.. ;)
<Cimi> iainfarrell: please change "thirteen heads are better than one" :D
<Cimi> they change everyday :D
<Cimi> how they are eleven
<Cimi> *now
<Cimi> iainfarrell: MacSlow: yesterday I went with my motorcycle on the hills near my city, amazing lovin' the sense of liberty!
<MacSlow> Cimi, iainfarrell: I did my first clutch-up and power-wheelies on my Duc yesterday evening *evil.grin*
<iainfarrell> heh Cimi you'll be addicted in no time
<iainfarrell> it's amazing fun
<Cimi> yes
<iainfarrell> Cimi: tomorrow I test ride this http://www.bestmotorcyclepictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/2009-bmw-k1300r-wallpaper.jpg
<Cimi> so powerful
<Cimi> omg :D
<MacSlow> iainfarrell, interesting... but looks very bulky
<MacSlow> Cimi, iainfarrell: tried this http://tinyurl.com/2f9qywy some weeks ago... nice trouble-maker (has the potential to get you into trouble with the cops easily :)
<iainfarrell> heh, yeah MacSlow I would really like to try one
<MacSlow> iainfarrell, but I would go with the small one (796) because the 1100 evo sp is even taller than my 848
<iainfarrell> MacSlow: yeah
<MacSlow> iainfarrell, in terms of agility (in the city) and nimbleness, it can't get better than supermoto
<iainfarrell> MacSlow: quite :)
<iainfarrell> MacSlow: but I need/ want to tour on mine
<iainfarrell> so supermoto is out
<MacSlow> yeah... certainly not good for going long distances
<fagan> I wonder when mpt will be about
 * fagan wants some attention for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/626414
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 626414 in software-center (Ubuntu) "FPS sub genre in games (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<fagan> I wonder is mpt on holidays
<kklimonda> are nvidia drivers really that bad that just using unity heats up my laptop?
<fagan> kklimonda: well it depends on how old your card is
<fagan> ive run it on an absolutely horrible computer and it was fine
<kklimonda> fagan: g84 with 128MB of ram
<fagan> thats old enough kklimonda
<kklimonda> fagan: seriously?
<kklimonda> that's g84 i.e. 8400M
<fagan> oh ok
<kklimonda> well, actually a quadro 140m which is 8400M based ;)
<fagan> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1028703/nvidia-g84-g86-bad :D
<kklimonda> fagan: yes, that ine
<kklimonda> one*
<fagan> well unity is supposed to be really light
<fagan> so I presume its you not it
<kklimonda> exactly why I'm wondering if there is something in clutter that is terrible ineffective with nvidia binary blob
<fagan> well nvidia drivers are great in most cases
<fagan> probably something isnt quite implemented great yet in the drivers
<fagan> since unity is made to run on small computers it needs to be light
<kklimonda> I love how I can almost see my card redrawing appmenu-gtk ;)
<fagan> lol
<fagan> intel have bad drivers and this card is bad but still this computer is able to run unity with no problems
<fagan> so weird
<kklimonda> it got better after either restart or restart and update
<kklimonda> I wonder if it's the good idea to push just about everything through dbus - at some point it will simply become a bottleneck..
<fagan> well the dbus gets a lot of traffic but the computers can handle it
<fagan> and its a lot faster now anyway
<kklimonda> can they?
<fagan> well im on the minimum requirements machine at the moment and its fine
<kklimonda> can you click on File position in app menu and start moving mouse fast from left to right?
<fagan> im not on unity at the moment
<fagan> :(
<kklimonda> I've started seeing a "loading" animation after few seconds of doing that ;)
<fagan> seif: having computer issues?
<seif> fagan, yes
<seif> unity
<fagan> crashing?
<vish> kklimonda: me testing unity now as well , let me try that..
<vish>  +/
<vish> kklimonda: yup, i see that too , but for a very brief moment :)
<vish> kklimonda: and this is on an intel , so might be why it is shorter here...
#ayatana 2010-09-04
<avalmez> hello
<avalmez> newbie...help?
<dylan-m> Hey, quick question on Unity's global menu stuff :)
<fagan> dylan-m: hey
<fagan> (try not to ask to ask a question its not good IRC form )
<fagan> ask away
<dylan-m> According to Unity's design, when a window is unmaximized, is the application menu _meant_ to stay in the top panel or should it follow the title bar and be drawn in the window client again?
<fagan> The menu should always be on the top
<vish> heh , weird that synaptic chooses not to use the app menu ;)
<fagan> vish: whys that?
<vish> fagan: i guess no one looked into it :)
<dylan-m> That would probably be because Synaptic is running as root, so it won't be connected to your session's dbus bus
<vish> or that^
<fagan> yeah thats right
<dylan-m> Which is why aptdaemon is a wonderful, excellent thing
<fagan> doesnt mean much to the regular user so its ok to get it next release
<Omega> Have you guys looked into tiling window managers?
<dylan-m> fagan: Thanks for the answer! It does feel a bit funny to me, but if it's designed for I'm happy!
<dylan-m> (I would probably like it better if I stopped being stubborn and turned off âfocus follows mouseâ)
<fagan> Omega: tiling window managers were a bad bad fad from the 90s that never took off
<Omega> I believe that tiling is very powerfull, but they are not there yet.
<Omega> fagan: Why do you think it is bad?
<fagan> it is
<fagan> its good if you have a huge screen
<fagan> but 99% of people dont
<Omega> But, there are also hybrid approaches
<Omega> like bluetile
<fagan> maybe so but you could just not have your windows maximized in a normal window manager
<fagan> tiling is kinda redundant as a practice
<fagan> since you can do it anyway with regular window managers
<fagan> maybe not in the same way but the result is the same
<Omega> It takes more effort to split the screen on a what you call normal window manager.
<fagan> not really
<fagan> just drag the windows to where you want
<Omega> So it's half-off screen?
<fagan> not really
<Omega> Okay, how do you split the screen so two applications share it?
<Omega> What are the steps.
<fagan> you resize the two windows so they both fit
<Omega> one by one
<Omega> and then move them
<fagan> yep
<Omega> resize again
<Omega> With a tiling window manager, you just resize (one) and the other also resizes
<fagan> the current model is the most flexible and is the most widely used way of doing things
<Omega> I don't see how it is more flexible, with bluetile you can also stack windows.
<fagan> the only other one we may look at is how mac does it where the windows size to their natural sizes
<Omega> Even Windows has some sort of tiling in it's latest operating system.
<Omega> s/Windows/Microsoft
<fagan> they have each application like we have its just the list is stacked to save space
<Omega> No, I mean when you drag an application to the edge of the screen it 'snaps'
<Omega> It's just that with stacking window managers you spend a lot of time arranging windows.
<fagan> well we have it so it sizes the window to the last size it was before it was before it was maximized
<Omega> I'm not talking about minimizing and maximizing.
<fagan> I think compiz has that somewhere too
<fagan> I dont think its the default behavior but its there
<Omega> Oh.
<fagan> But we are moving to Gnome Shell soon ish (within two cycles maybe) and that kinda likes the behavior that every program is maxed
<dylan-m> I wouldn't really call Win7's approach "tiling," because the snapped windows don't influence the others in any way.
<dylan-m> It does demonstrate that there's a lot of cool stuff one can add to conventional stacking window managers without completely changing them. Lots of room for adventurous souls to experiment with stuff that makes sorting windows a bit easier. (A spring simulation for pushing windows against each other springs to mind).
<Omega> Yeah, a hybrid approach would work, I believe.
<fagan> Man I love two finger scrolling
<Omega> I can't get it to work ):
<Omega> Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccniJHjo_Uw
<fagan> lol I just found a really nice crash in nautilus
<fagan> damn doesnt trigger apport
<fagan> :/
<fagan> hmmm someone scroll really fast over the listbox that says icon view in nautilus for a sec
<fagan> go up and down over and over again
<fagan> and it should crash
<Omega> Watch the video please.
<dylan-m> I think you blew up thorwil's computer :P
<fagan> nice
<Omega> That's just one experiment, there are loads of other ways we can make it better.
<dylan-m> fagan: Okay, I reproduced your crash! :)
<fagan> nice
<fagan> im such an awesome tester
<fagan> im going to make a bug
<fagan> :D
<dylan-m> It was a bit tricky, thoughâ¦ Wasn't cooperating when I was going _really_ quickly, then it crashed when I did it a bit slower (so that it showed each state instead of just jumping straight between Icon View and List View)
<fagan> I got it when I scrolled over it once
<Omega> Scrolling?
<fagan> ah its already a bug
<fagan> :/
<Omega> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE_Qb7arW3s
<Omega> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb8arxn5C-0&feature=channel Is also interesting.
<Omega> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccniJHjo_Uw
<Omega> Eh, I already pasted that.
<Omega> Paste-o.
#ayatana 2011-08-29
<didrocks> good morning
<bschaefer> didrocks: Morning, I hope you had a good break
<didrocks> bschaefer: hey! Yeah, the break was excellent, thanks :)
<bschaefer> didrocks: Excellent! Now you get to work again! O and also the CJK patch went through while you were away (thought I would tell since you wanted to know haha)
<didrocks> bschaefer: oh excellent news! so xapian is now cjk aware in oneiric ;)
<bschaefer> yup! Now to fix the ibus support for oneiric :)
<didrocks> good luck!
<bschaefer> thanks!
<htorque_> didrocks: good morning! there's a bad mem leak bug affecting unity-panel-service (bug 835646), but it's not just in unity but also in unity-2d, so i'm not sure about the packages/tasks anymore. can you help me out?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 835646 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity-panel-service memory leak when starting various applications" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/835646
<didrocks> htorque_: it's in the unity source package (unity-services binary package in fact)
<didrocks> hey ;)
<didrocks> htorque_: if you need to know from which package a binary is, you can use dpkg -S <binary_name>
<htorque_> i'm just not sure if unity-panel-service is actually causing the problem, it's just the thing that eats the ram
<htorque_> but if you say 'unity', then i certainly don't doubt it ;-)
<htorque_> thanks :-)
<thumper> htorque_: can you please subscribe me to the bug (assuming you are filing one)
<thumper> htorque_: preferably with examples of what is causing it to leak
<htorque_> thumper: done
<thumper> htorque_: ta
<htorque_> thumper: example: open and close any application and check mem usage of unity-panel-service before/after.
<htorque_> gimp is an extreme example
<andyrock> didrocks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/692444 it's marked as fix released but it doesn't work for me
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 692444 in bamf (Ubuntu) "clicking trash multiple times opens multiple instances of it." [Undecided,Fix committed]
<andyrock> didrocks, so this new bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/836516 should be confirmed or should be marked as a duplicate?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 836516 in unity (Ubuntu) "If the trash folder is opened, when the user click on it nautilus should open the previous folder, not a new window." [Undecided,New]
<didrocks> andyrock: this bug has clearly been fixed at some point, I would just take the new one and mark it confirm personnaly
<andyrock> didrocks, ok thx
<didrocks> andyrock: yw ;)
<apw> anybody know which bit controls the backlight brightness when 'idle' ?  seems to be a fixed brightness which means it increases brightness when you are on minimum
<dbarth> apw: not sure if that's still there, but it used to live inside gpm; see http://www.google.fr/codesearch#WoT5Z9VreaQ/src/gpm-brightness.c&type=cs
<andyrock> htorque, can you check my last commit?
<andyrock> the problem is difficult to solve but it should at least reduce the problem
<andyrock> i think that it works 7-8/10 times
#ayatana 2011-08-30
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning
<htorque> andyrock: hi, i'm sorry to tell you, but the branch didn't change a thing here :-(  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/673326/out.ogv
<andyrock> htorque, i'm working on it... i've also write an email on ayatana-dev
<zniavre_> good afternoon
<zniavre_> the new appearence properties for gtk theme into gnome-control-center can read only gtk-3.0 theme from usr/share/themes or from local ~/.themes too ?
<zniavre_> root/.themes * sorry
<zniavre_> i do not want to move a folder from my own into /usr/share/themes to get my theme into the appearence "stuff"
<davidcalle> zniavre, AFAIK it doesn't read ~/.themes
<zniavre> davidcalle,  thank you answering,  it will read /home/USER/.themes ? or it's not priority ?
<jml> the launcher doesn't seem to be hiding at all any more for me. this means I can't use maximized windows, as the left-hand side is obscured and unclickable.
<davidcalle> zniavre, I hope it will.
<zniavre> great
<zniavre> thank you
<jml> is there a work-around?
<andyrock> njpatel, test-gtest no loger works
<andyrock> ./tests/test-gtest
<andyrock> FATAL: Unable to connect to test serviceandyrock
<andyrock> sorry
<andyrock> ./tests/test-gtest
<andyrock> FATAL: Unable to connect to test service
<njpatel> andyrock, make gcheck
<andyrock> thx
<jjardon> tedg: hey, any idea how to reproduce https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-datetime/+bug/774071 ? Also, do you have any other indicator when you can reproduce the bug?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 774071 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "Indicator-datetime-service renders 100% CPU usage" [Low,Expired]
<tedg> jjardon, No, it happens randomly.  When it happens EDS is spaming the bus with messages.
<tedg> jjardon, No, it doesn't happen with other indicators.
<tedg> jjardon, So something in datetime is causing EDS to go haywire.  But if you kill the datetime service, EDS stops.
<tedg> jjardon, DBO claims to get it a lot.  Not sure why.  But he might have more information.
<jjardon> tedg: I mean, do you have installed the indicator-weather, reading the bug report seems that can be related
<tedg> jjardon, I do have it installed.  Though, I can't imagine how they'd be related...
<jjardon> tedg: ok, thanks. I have patches to fix the delays in the date using the new glib api (that will be in the glib release of today). Also, Do you have any chance to look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-datetime/+bug/807509 ? David told me that maybe you have some time to take a look
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 807509 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Cannot click on Calendar to select another day, month or year" [High,Triaged]
<tedg> jjardon, There's really no interaction between weather and datetime.
<tedg> jjardon, I am looking at it.  Made some progress, but it's a tricky one.
<Trevinho> njpatel: hi... I've updated the indicator redesign branch against new trunk... Is it fine for review now?
<Trevinho> tedg: I've seen the "clear notification" thing you've made... I saw that you always show that menu item, but in the case you disable it for clicks... Isn't better to hide it at all (as I did in my client-side implementation?)
<tedg> Trevinho, No, not really.  In general, hiding things makes it so that people can't remember where things are.  If you disable it, then you're showing the state.
<om26er> tedg, sometimes the clear button is active even there is no notification pending, should I file it?
<tedg> om26er, Uhm, yeah.  Any information about how to recreate would also be useful.
<Trevinho> om26er: I've found the same too
<om26er> tedg, sure.
<om26er> Trevinho, you report and i'll be the confirmer, deal ? :D
<Trevinho> Ok... om26er: and please check also the issue I've described in the last comment of this merge: https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity/fix-688117/+merge/70084
<om26er> Trevinho, yes i can reproduce it here
<jjardon> tedg: Could you apply the patch from https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-datetime/+bug/730476/comments/29 . I tested it here and seems to be correct
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 730476 in Indicator Date and Time "Part of the time appears cut off when displaying the day of the week and date" [Undecided,In progress]
<jjardon> tedg: or do you want me to create a branch instead?
<tedg> jjardon, Sure, a branch would be better as that way I won't miss it when making releases.
<tedg> jjardon, Though, in that case we need the contributor to sign the CA if they haven't.
<tedg> jjardon, So I'll talk to them.
<Amaranth> so it seems the BUILD_TESTING build option in unity doesn't actually disable building tests
<Amaranth> hehe, unity has a fixme saying "this needs to be GL_TRIANGLE_STRIP"
<Amaranth> well, thanks for thinking about me anyway :D
<njpatel> andyrock, hey dude, have you come across this recently? https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/830887 I fixed a bunch of rendering bugs over the past week and I'm unable to reproduce the issue now
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 830887 in unity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Dash shows an empty icon for some applications." [High,Confirmed]
<njpatel> Amaranth, we love you really
<andyrock> njpatel, mmm no... but in the dash there still are app without icons...
<andyrock> i mean: when i wrote the bug ccsm, gedit, etc. sometimes had no icons
<andyrock> now i think that there are no default icon when app icon is not present/found
<andyrock> *thre is no default
<njpatel> andyrock, can you give me an example app?
<njpatel> (easier to fix with an example)
<andyrock> dconf-editor
<Amaranth> not sure why that needed a fixme, looks like it was a simple swap to convert
<njpatel> andyrock, sweet, thanks
<andyrock> njpatel, yw! if you need a screenshot let me now :)
<njpatel> andyrock, will do :)
<andyrock> njpatel, if i keep pressed an icon dash, the first icon of the row is selected
<htorque> andyrock: confirmed, did you open a bug report?
<andyrock> htorque, about what? :)
<htorque> > if i keep pressed an icon dash, the first icon of the row is selected
<andyrock> ah... no :) can you do it?
<htorque> sure
<andyrock> thx
<htorque> andyrock: bug 837560 - sorry took some time (needed to build unity first)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 837560 in unity "Dash: clicking any item will also highlight the first item" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837560
<andyrock> htorque, np
<andyrock> DBO, any idea how to solve the dnd issue?
<DBO> andyrock, I wont lie, I haven't even given it a thought
<DBO> were you the dude I was telling not to leak CompScreen?
<andyrock> DBO, yup
<DBO> did you fix the null thing?
<DBO> also, just because compiz cant spell display doesn't mean we cant :)
<DBO> WindowManager::Display
<DBO> instead of WindowManager::Dpy :)
<DBO> Im sorry for being so rough on you
<andyrock> DBO, null thing solved using a simple null check
<andyrock> btw you are evil ahahah :)
<andyrock> but i will change Dpy to Display
<Trevinho> DBO: please could you check this again: https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity/fix-690143/+merge/73430
<Trevinho> I ported it to current code
<DBO> Trevinho, timing is good, doing now
<Trevinho> nice :D
<Trevinho> And.... Since the timing is good when you've done... You also would have to merge the bamf branch I sent one month ago... :P
<Trevinho> If it's nice then I'll work on the other branch related to the window mapping... Since there still are severe issues...
<andyrock> I think that Display* Display() is not legal
<andyrock> i'va to use Display* display()
<andyrock> DBO ^^^
<andyrock> *i've
<DBO> uhm
<DBO> Display* Display should be legal
<DBO> how does it complain?
<DBO> if you must, do Display* XDisplay();
<andyrock> /usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:495:26: error: changes meaning of âDisplayâ from âtypedef struct _XDisplay Displayâ [-fpermissive]
<andyrock> home/andyrock/Desktop/other-dnd-fixes2/plugins/unityshell/src/PluginAdapter.h:137:3: error: âDisplayâ does not name a type
<andyrock> XDisplay should be good
<Omega> I miss being on the same time as you guys ): every since I moved to europe ):
<Omega> s/ry/r/
<andyrock> DBO, can i use nux::GetGraphicsDisplay()->GetX11Display();
<andyrock> in DNDCollectionWindow?
<DBO> launcher has a Display that gets set on it
<DBO> it could easily pass that along
<DBO> and again just handle the null case
<jcastro> DBO: thanks for merging those BAMF fixes
<jcastro> like a month later
<DBO> andyrock, Launcher::display
<DBO> jcastro, shut up
<jcastro> stay classy!
<jcastro> DBO: clean em out before thursday, that would be swell
<Trevinho> Hi jcastro
<Trevinho> How long...! :)
<DBO> jcastro, if you could get the community to like what we do by Thursday, that would be swell
<jcastro> DBO: remember when you did stuff people liked they also flamed you
<jcastro> it's just your personality, you're a target of ridicule. :p
<jcastro> Trevinho: hey did you see someone found a workaround to the bamf bug?
<Trevinho> For the chromium thing ?
<jcastro> yeah
<Trevinho> Well... I read something, but not in detail...
<Trevinho> However I hope we could get that fixed soon... Now all the stuff we're depending on are fine. We just need to put our things int the correct order.
<DBO> Trevinho, your queue is now empty
<Trevinho> Oh, cool DBO... However not completely... I still wait for the branch I sent you in private and to rewrite the one window mapping one...
<Trevinho> Also because you introduced a bug :P
<DBO> where?
<Trevinho> DBO: read my last comment: https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity/fix-688117/+merge/70084
<DBO> Trevinho, works fine ehre
<Trevinho> really? also om26er confirmed that to me...
<Trevinho> mhmh...
<DBO> yeah just double checked
<DBO> workspace switching works fine
<Trevinho> DBO: maybe that was before the recent change....
<DBO> maybe
<Trevinho> fine, so ;)
<jcastro> \o/
<DBO> only issue is in alt-tab, fixing that now
<DBO> Trevinho, great work though
<jcastro> DBO: the stacking one?
<DBO> jcastro, no
<Trevinho> thanks DBO ;)
<DBO> jcastro, your buddy needs to get back to me and confirm I am speaking before I book a hotel
<jcastro> DBO: ohio linux is fun, you'll have a good time
<jcastro> DBO: hey are you in charge of the dash blur or is that neil?
<DBO> jcastro, depends on your problem
<jcastro> still a bit too light on light backgrounds
<DBO> poke gord
 * jcastro nods
<Trevinho> DBO: the indicator branch is more related to njpatel, isn't it?
<DBO> Trevinho, yes
<htorque> Trevinho: nice work on the arrow thing! :-)
<Trevinho> thanks htorque ;)
<Andy80> hi
<Trevinho> hi Andy80
<Andy80> Trevinho: welcome back from holidays :)
<Trevinho> Thanks Andy80 ;)
<htorque> would such artifacts be a compiz issue: http://img.xrmb2.net/images/703132.png ? (that's on intel on two systems, about to check with nvidia)
<DBO> ping me please
<Trevinho> DBO: I've just checked to map a window that is visible in another viewport..
<Trevinho> but currently a scale is launched for that application...
<Trevinho> (if more than one window is available)
<Trevinho> isn't that wrong?
<Trevinho> I guess that the scale should be performed only on second click
<Trevinho> And however DBO I still have the issue... Open just one window for an application, put it in forground and switch viewport. Click on that application launcher icon, then it won't be mapped and no vp switch is performed to show it
<DBO> Trevinho, still cant reproduce
<Trevinho> that's weird
<DBO> why do you say mapped?
<DBO> Trevinho, ^^
<DBO> no mapping should happen in what you describe
<Trevinho> Mh, DBO sorry... Not mapped... I meant is not shown
<Trevinho> no VP switch is done...
<DBO> Trevinho, cont reproduce
<Trevinho> so if there's just one window opened, the its launcher icon is not useful at all
<Trevinho> DBO: it's so strange.... I guess I'm running unity trunk right now
<DBO> Trevinho, is your compiz up to date
<Trevinho> yes
<Trevinho> compiz 1:0.9.5.92+bzr2791-0ubuntu1
<DBO> and compiz-plugins-main-default
<Trevinho> Mhmh... OK that was outdated... :P
<Trevinho> sorry
<Trevinho> DBO: plugins updated, issue remains
<DBO> Trevinho, did you update all the other compiz things?
<Trevinho> yes
<DBO> Trevinho, I suggest dark cult rituals
<DBO> or restarting your session
<Trevinho> DBO: I'll try to dance in my room singin something I learned in Africa... Maybe it helps
<DBO> Trevinho, sacrifice a virgin if you can find one
#ayatana 2011-08-31
<didrocks> good morning
<davidyu> Hi
<jono> MacSlow, glad you weighed in on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/824916
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 824916 in unity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Dash text is unreadable with some background pictures" [High,Incomplete]
<jono> this is what I figured would be a good solution too
<MacSlow> jono, I never understood why this wasn't done in the first place... this solution is "battle-proven" in notify-osd for some cycles now... and it would add to making things look more consistent. We'll see what Design thinks about it.
<jono> MacSlow, totally agree
<MacSlow> hey andyrock
<jono> it sounds like it just needs to design sign-off
<andyrock> hey MacSlow
<MacSlow> jono, yup
<jono> and someone on DX to own the bug and get the design sign-off
<davidcalle> MacSlow, wasn't there the idea during the cycle to make notify-osd take the same color as the Dash and alt+tab?
<MacSlow> jono, I guess that would be me (due to my nosd-legacy and having done most of the text-rendering anyway).
<davidcalle> I remember seeing some commits about that.
<MacSlow> davidcalle, yes... I worked on that... but it's not reviewed and there are some other things we've not made up our minds on yet.
<davidcalle> MacSlow, ok :)
<MacSlow> davidcalle, check http://people.canonical.com/~mmueller/notify-osd-avgerage-bg-color-1.jpg (1..7)
<davidcalle> MacSlow, I've already seen it. Now we just need the panel to take this color ;)
<davidcalle> Hi njpatel
<jono> MacSlow, would you be happy to talk to the design team today to get a +1 on that and move this bug forward?
<MacSlow> jono, generally yes... but I don't want to break the "line of organization" allocating bug-fixing time :)
<jono> aha! ;-)
<jono> so long as it gets fixed, whatever is easiest :-)
<jono> fortunately it is a pretty cosmetic bug
<jono> thanks ma
<jono> thanks MacSlow
<jono> I am heading to bed now :-)
<MacSlow> jono, good night
<andyrock> i just woke up and jono's going to go to bed :)
<jono> andyrock, bonkers, eh? :-)
<jono> night all!
<jono> keep on rocking in the free world :-)
<njpatel> davidcalle, hey
<davidcalle> njpatel, I'm switching back to python for lens developement. Jono wants a working one before release and I don't think I'm going to make it in time with Vala, at least not with the features I want.
<davidcalle> So, I have one question :)
<njpatel> davidcalle, makes sense
<njpatel> davidcalle, kamstrup is back too, so I think he can help with making the python stuff work nicely
<davidcalle> njpatel, he just got back, I won't harass him before at least a week ;)
<njpatel> davidcalle, no, no, it's good to harass him, he likes it
<kamstrup> davidcalle: I'm still setting up my dev environment, but should be up to speed soon
<davidcalle> kamstrup, great
<kamstrup> njpatel: no, no... you "caress" not "harass"!
<andyrock> njpatel gord, when dragging from a "not fullscreen dash" to desktop using a short and continuous mouse move
<andyrock> it's impossible draggins something on the desktop
<andyrock> without using an extra click
<andyrock> *extra move
<andyrock> the problem is more evident using a touchpad
<njpatel> andyrock, with trunk?
<andyrock> yes...
<andyrock> and the problem is not due to DNDCollectionWindow
<andyrock> I disabled it
<andyrock> the problem is:
<andyrock> 1) when the dash x window is moved offscreen
<andyrock> the hovered input window doesn't became the dnd target window
<andyrock> without an extra mouse move
<njpatel> ah, weird
<andyrock> we can create a fake mouse move
<andyrock> but there is a race condition
<andyrock> in fact what happen if the mouse il released when the dash window is still onscreen
<andyrock> i've the same problem in DNDCollectionWindow and no idea how to solve the race condition
<andyrock> it happens not so often, but it's not good
<andyrock> Trevinho, around?
<Andy80> hi guys
<andyrock> JohnLea, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/764673
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 764673 in unity (Ubuntu) "Launcher - Spread should not affect the state of window" [High,Confirmed]
<andyrock> i no longer have this bug
<JohnLea> andyrock; just tested with the latest Oneiric, still present but now somewhat intermittent
<JohnLea> andyrock, open 3 windows of the same app, minimise 1, select one of the other windows, and then start repeatedly clicking on that app's launcher icon
<JohnLea> andyrock; the minimised window flickers before disappearing when leaving the spread, and after a few time of opening/leaving the spread it magically un-minimises itself
<andyrock> JohnLea, one window disappears...
<JohnLea> andyrock; ?
<andyrock> open 3 windows of the same app, minimise 1, select one of the other windows, and then start repeatedly clicking on that app's launcher icon
<JohnLea> andyrock; what should happen is that the first click should: open the spread showing all three windows.
<JohnLea> the second click should then: close the spread and leave the two open windows displayed
<JohnLea> the third click should be the same action as the first click
<JohnLea> the forth the same as the second, ect...
<JohnLea> does that make sense?
<andyrock> JohnLea, totally... but it's a "smspillaz bug"
<JohnLea> andyrock; I've just pinged Sam to jump on to this channel if he is about, but I think it is very very early in the morning for him now
<JohnLea> andyrock; have you worked on this bug already, or were you just about to start?
<andyrock> JohnLea, i've already worked on scale plugin...
<andyrock> but right now i cannot work on it because for weird reason i can no longer build it from sources
<andyrock> i've to fix first of all the timeout problem in scale plugin but for the above reason i cannot
<Trevinho> andyrock: did you ask for me before?
<andyrock> Trevinho, private chat so we can speak Italian :)
<smspillaz> andyrock: hi
<smspillaz> andyrock: someone asked me to poke you about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/764673
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 764673 in unity (Ubuntu) "Launcher - Spread should not affect the state of window" [High,Confirmed]
<andyrock> smspillaz, JohnLea did
<andyrock> well first of all when I try to build scale plugin from lp:compiz-core
<andyrock> i get a cmake error
<andyrock> http://paste.ubuntu.com/678839/
<andyrock> i get the same error from lp:compiz-core and apt-get source compiz...
<smspillaz> hang on
<smspillaz> I might not have resynced that repo
<smspillaz> hmm actually
<smspillaz> if you're building lp:compiz-core you shouldn't get that
<smspillaz> are you building all of lp:compiz-core or just the scale plugin on its own?
<smspillaz> since I don't think building the plugins within lp:compiz-core on their own is supported just yet with the release code I wrote (I need to fix that)
<andyrock> smspillaz, just the scale plugin
<smspillaz> in fact, I'll do that right now so that I don't forget
<smspillaz> andyrock: ok, I'll be about 5 minutes
<smspillaz> (in order to check if this works I actually need to install compiz temporarily)
<andyrock> smspillaz, np...
<smspillaz> andyrock: lp:~compiz-team/compiz-core/compiz-core.dont_require_version
<smspillaz> (awaiting review)
<smspillaz> https://code.launchpad.net/~compiz-team/compiz-core/compiz-core.dont_require_version/+merge/73520
<andyrock> smspillaz, ok thx.... about minimized windows.
<smspillaz> andyrock: yah
<andyrock> sometimes when i minimed chromium (other apps too)
<andyrock> it receive mouse inputs
<smspillaz> andyrock: have you got the "keep previews of minimized windows" option enabled in the workarounds plugin ?
<andyrock> no...
<smspillaz> ok
<smspillaz> I just know that one is broken and I haven't had time to fix it
<andyrock> and i run unity --reset to be sure
<smspillaz> I haven't been able to reproduce this myself, though if you can let me know what apps particularly trigger it then I might be able to look into it
<smspillaz> otherwise
<smspillaz> in unity/tests
<smspillaz> there's a test there called test-minimize-handler
<smspillaz> so if you go into build/tests/test-minimize-handler
<smspillaz> and then run it with ./test-minimize-handler window_id
<smspillaz> where window_id is the id you get from xwininfo
<smspillaz> it will simulate what's going on
<smspillaz> and if you can still interact with the window while its visible
<smspillaz> then there's a problem with that app
<smspillaz> (also try test-input-remover too)
<smspillaz> (I knew these would come in use!)
<andyrock> i'll do it
<andyrock> so the window id of chrome is 0x3c00044
<andyrock> i run the test passing this it
<andyrock> now using 'm' and 'u' i should be able to minimize/unminimize it?
<smspillaz> simulate minimize
<smspillaz> so it won't actually minimize
<andyrock> i've the problem right know
<andyrock> chrome is minimize
<andyrock> but if i right click on the desktop
<andyrock> i get the chrome context menu
<smspillaz> ok
<smspillaz> try this one
<smspillaz> xwininfo -tree (on the chromium window while it's unminimized)
<smspillaz> and then xwininfo -id (the specified parent window twice)
<smspillaz> that will get you the frame window
<smspillaz> and then do  tests/test-input-remover (the frame window id)
<smspillaz> and then do  tests/test-input-remover (the frame window id) 10 actually
<smspillaz> since maybe chromium is changing its input shape
<smspillaz> ah
<smspillaz> hang on
<smspillaz> are you using chromium's client side decorations ?
<andyrock> yes
<smspillaz> that would be it
<smspillaz> yep, I can reproduce that
<smspillaz> sweet
<andyrock> but sometime i get the same error with geany and xchat
<andyrock> no so ofter
<smspillaz> can you file a bug saying that when you've got chromium's client side decorations on the window shape changes and we don't respond to that ?
<andyrock> when it will happens i'll send you more info
<andyrock> of course
<smspillaz> cheers
 * smspillaz knew there would be problems with this *sigh*
<smspillaz> add that to the list of my 1 billion reasons why CSD is evil
<smspillaz> though I guess it sort of doesn't count since removing input shape + inhibiting painting is also evil
<andyrock> i read your blog post ;)
<smspillaz> I saw
<smspillaz> let me know when you get up and running with the scale plugin
<smspillaz> I'm just finishing some delicious hacks on the expo plugin
<andyrock> Using chromium's client side decorations minimizing it, it is still able to catch input event
<andyrock> is it a good title? i really need to improve my English
<smspillaz> sounds great
<andyrock> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/838062
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 838062 in unity "Using chromium's client side decorations and minimizing it, it is still able to catch input events" [Undecided,New]
<htorque> hm, i've also seen that with ccsm
<davidcalle> Midori does it.
<smspillaz> can you all get me steps to reproduce then ? :)
<davidcalle> Midori : 1) Make sure every other windows are minimized. 2) Open Midori. 3) Minimize it. 4) Type. -> Midori urlbar history is displayed on the desktop.
<davidcalle> smspillaz, ^
<htorque> i'm not sure how to reproduce it with ccsm, i just remember that i minimized it (all other windows were minimized) and wanted to click on the desktop -> a pulldown menu from ccsm appeared
<kenvandine> Kaleo, good morning
<kenvandine> is unity-2d not honoring the same gsettings key for the systray whitelist?
<Kaleo> kenvandine: good morning
<kenvandine> Kaleo, oh... unity-2d has something for displaying a legacytray ...
<Kaleo> kenvandine: no we don't have the whitelist
<kenvandine> Kaleo, so we have to patch all the apps that use the systray again?
<Kaleo> kenvandine: the legacytray is the systray
<kenvandine> ugh... too late in the cycle to do that
<kenvandine> there have been users complaining about getting gnome-power-manager there too
<Kaleo> I see
<Kaleo> I thought they were patched already from Natty
<kenvandine> i think they have all been dropped...
<Kaleo> kenvandine: well, that's very sad and unexpected
<kenvandine> :(
<Kaleo> kenvandine: if I am correct the simplest thing is to implement the whitelist in u2d right?
<kenvandine> Kaleo, yes
<kenvandine> i thought the plan for this cycle was to make unity-2d have more infrastructure in common with unity3d
<kenvandine> i would expect to see the same indicators in both environments
<Kaleo> kenvandine: the indicators are the same
<Kaleo> kenvandine: just not the systray
<Kaleo> kenvandine: task logged as https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/707354
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 707354 in unity-2d "[panel] Implement whitelisting for legacy tray applet" [Medium,Confirmed]
<kenvandine> Kaleo, right... but i think if you are loading the same indicators as unity3d
<kenvandine> you get the whitelist for free
 * kenvandine could be wrong... 
<kenvandine> didrocks, ^^
<Andy80> was, any Natty+GoogleMusicUploader user, able to make it work? I can't see the icon in the indicator using Unity, while I see it normally in Ubuntu Classic session...
<didrocks> the whitelist is in libunity-misc
<didrocks> which makes the rendering IIRC, not related to the panel lservice
<kenvandine> good
<htorque> before i file a bug report: are file results in the dash search are supposed to show up before application results? if i hit super, type 'xchat', and hit enter, it shows me "xchat.png" rather than starting xchat
<kenvandine> Kaleo, does that help?
<Kaleo> kenvandine: yeah, it means that we have our own support for systray, separate from u3d
<kenvandine> which i thought you wouldn't need to do anymore...
<didrocks> the whitelist should simply be in the panel service, that would be easier
<Kaleo> didrocks: it sounds a bit late for that, no?
<kenvandine> didrocks, right... but he shouldn't need his own legacytray right?
<didrocks> Kaleo: depends, the code for the reject is small and can be relocated/tested easily
<kenvandine> Kaleo, it is far less intrusive than patching a bunch of apps
<Kaleo> didrocks: it's not just the reject, AFAIK the systray items are not exposed by the unity-panel-service
<kenvandine> Kaleo, and it would make the behavior between unity and unity-2d more consistent, which is important
<Kaleo> kenvandine: well, definitely
<didrocks> Kaleo: ah, in that case, sux, indeed
<Kaleo> kenvandine: we will implement the whitelisting in our systray as per the bug
<kenvandine> Kaleo, i guess just make it share the same gsettings key
<Kaleo> kenvandine: exactly
<kenvandine> Kaleo, thx
<Andy80> new bug ( #838103 ) reported ;)
<Andy80> (the bot is sleeping....)
<JohnLea> Trevinho; hyia, I'm just reviewing Oneiric and I noticed your patch to bug #690143 has not yet landed.  Is there anything blocking this that I can help with?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 690143 in unity "Launcher - Implement workspace/launcher cross interactions" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/690143
<JohnLea> Trevinho; I would like to test your new backlight mode in the next round of user testing ;-)
<beevvy> are there any plans to make libindicate-qt not dependent on the glib libindicate?
<beevvy> agateau: ^^
<agateau> beevvy: no, there is no such plan
<beevvy> agateau: ok, thanks
<htorque> JohnLea: that should be in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/revision/1462 AFAIK
<apw> do we expect oneiric to be able to handle external monitors plugged in ?
<apw> i am seeing compiz crashing out
<smspillaz> yes
<smspillaz> apw: stacktrace ?
<apw> smspillaz, waiting for the bug thing to do its thing
<smspillaz> apw: I hotplug monitors all the time so this comes as a bit of surprise to me :)
<apw> smspillaz, what h/w do you use
<apw> i am hearing multiple reports of utter failure with intel graphics on netbooks
<apw> smspillaz, i assume the crash report that apport takes has the stack trace in it?
<apw> smspillaz, excellent keyboard no longer works ... luckily i can cut-n-paste in apport's bug
<smspillaz> apw: nouveau 8800GT
<apw> bug #838128
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 838128 could not be found
<smspillaz> apw: I think in cases where you plug a monitor in where the combined resolution would be more than your maximum texture size you can expect problems
<smspillaz> apw: I know that the maximum texture size on intel is *excessively* low
<apw> smspillaz, what still, we reallly don't want to support netbooks do we
<smspillaz> apw: of course we support netbooks
<apw> smspillaz, the monitor would push us over 2048 wide which is likely the texture width indeed
<apw> but no one output is more than the texture size
<smspillaz> apw: it's a development version for a reason ;-) I've been discussion how to handle this problem with jaytaoko for the past week now and I've got some ideas about it, but its complicated
<apw> smspillaz, well it worked in natty so we must have known how to fix it before
<smspillaz> apw: in natty we weren't doing things like redirecting output into a giant fbo :)
<smspillaz> (for real time blurs and the like)
<apw> smspillaz, well we did for the first half of the cycle, and then we fixed it cause it broke netbooks
<smspillaz> apw: the fbo support didn't land till quite late in the cycle actually
<smspillaz> apw: anyways, the point being that I have some ideas on how to fix this
<smspillaz> apw: but its complicated and I need to sit down with jay and work it out
<smspillaz> so once I've got some other stuff on my plate, I'll get on to this, don't worry
<smspillaz> *off my plate
<drussell> I notice there are quite a few bugs with the unity launcher not autohiding... is there a particularly well known issue that explains what I'm seeing on a fully updated 11.10 today?
<drussell> it's only started happening today
<smspillaz> drussell: yes, it will be fixed tomorrow
<drussell> smspillaz: ahh cool, do you have the bug number to hand that I should keep an eye on?
<smspillaz> drussell: not on me, no
<drussell> smspillaz: ok, thanks, feel free to ping it @ me ;o)
<apw> do we know about the idle brightness being sometimes higher than the busy brightness on battery; and is gnome-setting-daemon still on the hook for such bugs?
<smspillaz> apw: fyi, for now the workaround is to arrange your monitors so that your combined resolution doesn't exceed 2048 pixels in any direction
<smspillaz> usually that means a top/bottom configuration rather than a left/right one
<apw> smspillaz, while that is a reasonable request, with intel graphics it autodetects the plug and automatically puts it on the right
<smspillaz> apw: I think there's a way to tell xrandr not to do that
<apw> and blows you up in a heap completly without a window manager before you can do 'owt about it
<smspillaz> apw: can't remember what it was off the top of my head though
<apw> smspillaz, can you remind me how to ask the render width
<smspillaz> apw: ???
<apw> smspillaz, couldn't compiz at least not display on the right of the screen
<apw> ie just stop short at 2k pixels when the render size is too small
<apw> smspillaz, there is some glx command which spits out the max renderable XxY
<Kaleo> kenvandine: the whitelist support is under review now
<smspillaz> apw: the correct solution is to use multitexturing
<smspillaz> err
<smspillaz> multiple textures
<smspillaz> multitexturing is something different
<smspillaz> apw: compiz can already do this btws
<smspillaz> err
<smspillaz> *btw
<smspillaz> fingers aren't working right today
<smspillaz> apw: disable unity and enable the "copy to texture" plugin in ccsm and compiz should be able to handle the monitor just fine
<apw> smspillaz, i am happy with the right soln.  i am wondering if we could bodge something to just carry on and leave the right side of my screen as not there at all, but at least not make core files and let me move the display
<smspillaz> apw: ah
<kenvandine> Kaleo, cool
<smspillaz> apw: well, you could force your output dimentions before you plug in your monitor
<smspillaz> apw: eg in ccsm -> general options -> output
<smspillaz> just add an entry like
<smspillaz> heightx2048+0+0
<smspillaz> and uncheck detect outputs
<apw> smspillaz, will give that a go in a bit
<apw> smspillaz, is there some way to get the unity panel (erm the thing with lenses on it) to resize so i can see the little icon menu at the bottom
<smspillaz> apw: iirc the fix for that is coming at some point, though I'm not in charge of that so I don't know
<Trevinho> JohnLea: about the patch related to bug #690143 now it should be landed in trunk
<Trevinho> You can test the new backlight so compiling the bzr versino
<ubot5> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #690143 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/690143). The error has been logged
<Trevinho> version*
<Trevinho> however I must admit that there's still a bug that I don't think that can easily solved: if you right-click on the window decoration and you move a window to another workspace in a such way the indicator doesn't get updated... In fact we don't have a smart way to check where a window is in a such case
<Trevinho> however I should do more tests on that
<smspillaz> Trevinho: window->geometry () should do it
<smspillaz> (even though the thought of that makes me sick because of how wrong compiz gets that, but this is another discussion)
<Trevinho> smspillaz: the problem is getting the event of the vp changed
<Trevinho> window movement should work
<Trevinho> but I guess I'd need to add too many filters in that case
<drussell> speaking of xrandr commands being needed because the display settings get things wrong...
<drussell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/828623
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 828623 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome control centre does not allow you to disable the laptop screen while leaving an external connected screen working" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<drussell> is anyone here able to steer me in the right direction of who's best to speak to to get it at least triaged/looked at
<drussell> (this is 11.10 again)
<smspillaz> Trevinho: is this from within unity ?
<Trevinho> yes
<smspillaz> Trevinho: don't we hook into signals from the wall plugin in that case ? (start_viewport_switch and end_viewport_switch)
<Trevinho> Of course, and I use them
<Trevinho> but they're related to the screen
<Trevinho> not to a window
<Trevinho> I need that a window will say "Hey... I just moved to viewport X"
<smspillaz> Trevinho: moveNotify with dx == screen->width () will do that
<smspillaz> at least if the wall plugin works the way I think it does
<Trevinho> I checked that some times ago, but it wasn't working too well
<Trevinho> I'll recheck tonight
<smspillaz> it's not 100% reliable
<smspillaz> Trevinho: http://git.compiz.org/compiz/core/tree/src/window.cpp#n5050
<smspillaz> Trevinho: if you just need to know that a window moved to another viewport, then you can check for window->invisible () on moveNotify as well
<smspillaz> Trevinho: unfortunately, there's no such concept of "viewports owning a particular window". That's not really how largedesktop works
<Trevinho> ok, thanks
<Trevinho> I've to go now, but tonight I'll look into that
<smspillaz> :)
<smspillaz> have fun
<jcastro> didrocks: ping
<didrocks> jcastro: hey!
<jcastro> howdy!
<jcastro> I have a quicklist question for you
<jcastro> so let's say I have update manager on my launcher
<jcastro> I only get the "check for updates" quicklist when update-manager is running
<jcastro> if it's not running there's nothing in the list
<didrocks> should be a dynamic quicklist then
<didrocks> (which depends on the component running then)
<jcastro> so it's like, not really a quicklist at all, unless it's running, at that point why have a quicklist. when it makes me run the app and I have the button right there
<jcastro> ok so is this a bug in update manager or is it just how quicklists work?
<didrocks> yeah, it's maybe not really useful
<jcastro> it has to be in u-m because like firefox keeps its quicklists when not running
<didrocks> should maybe be a static quicklist, launching update-manger in a mode where it apt-get update?
<jcastro> right
<didrocks> not sure if update-manager has that TBH
<jcastro> so I just needed to know where to file the bug
<didrocks> (this option)
<didrocks> oh, the quicklist is in update-manager code itself
<didrocks> (as the .desktop file for the static quicklist)
<didrocks> so yeah, bug update-manager :)
<jcastro> awesome, thanks!
<htorque_> Trevinho: have you thought about making the launcher items pulse like normal when starting (in "backlight and edge illum. toggles" mode)? right now i find it a bit difficult to see whether a program starts or not.
<andyrock> DBO, dash has the same DNDCollectionWindow issue https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/837968
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 837968 in unity "Dragging and dropping something from dash to other windows require an extra mouse moveÂ·" [Undecided,New]
<andyrock> and the problem is not due to dndcollectionwindow
<DBO> andyrock, thats due to teh nature of DND
<DBO> im not exactly sure what can be done about it really
<andyrock> but this problem sucks and should be fixed :)
<DBO> the XDND protocol isn't very flexible in this manner...
<DBO> happens to GTK also
<Trevinho> htorque_: No I didn't think about that, but it would be a nice idea... Open a bug about that
<htorque_> Trevinho: will do :-)
<Trevinho> Nice, feel free to call me back about that... Now I can't do it, but I'll give a look.
<jjohansen> is there an indicator to get crash reports that notification report and ask for you to click on the notification icon?
<htorque_> Trevinho: bug 838283 - maybe it can be made an additional option so it can be evaluated during user testing (if that's done somehow sometime).
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 838283 in unity "Edge illumination launch animation hard to see" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838283
<Trevinho> thanks htorque_
<Trevinho> jjardon: apport gtk has a tray-icon, but I guess it has not ported to libappindicator yet
<htorque_> Trevinho: thanks for being open to suggestions ;-)
<andyrock> htorque, Trevinho is open not only to suggestions ;)
<Trevinho> What the hell are you meaning andyrock?!?
<andyrock> Trevinho, muahahahah
<Trevinho> little bastard!
<Baabelfish> hello, any idea if it's possible to do global menu applet to the panel?
<Andy80> andyrock, Trevinho you two!!! Don't damage the name of the "italian stallions" :D
<kamstrup> kenvandine: dee-0.5.20 is out
<kenvandine> kamstrup, thx!
<kamstrup> kenvandine: tell the people with the pitchforks to stand down now ;-)
<kenvandine> :-D
<kamstrup> kenvandine: here's the changelog https://launchpad.net/dee/+milestone/0.5.20, since we're already shipping the relevant patches it's not hugely important, otoh we also know from experience now that the patches are safe :-)
<kenvandine> yeah :)
<kenvandine> i'll think about updating the package after beta1 :)
<kenvandine> kamstrup, do you think the blocking problem i have when the models are refreshing could be related to the FilterModel I am using?
<kamstrup> kenvandine: how many rows/changes are going into the model?
<kenvandine> when it clears and appends a couple thousand rows... I guess the filter is being reapplied on every change
<kamstrup> the filter is applied incrementally to new rows
<kenvandine> right
<kenvandine> so if i have 2000 appends
<kenvandine> right after a clear
<kenvandine> it has to filter each row
<kamstrup> yes
<kamstrup> but assuming this filter is a collator filter it should be cheap
<kenvandine> "cheap"
<kenvandine> about 2 seconds
<kamstrup> no, maybe 20ms worst case
<kenvandine> how about a filter of a filter?
<kenvandine> i filter by a column first
<kenvandine> the collate that
<kamstrup> kenvandine: it basically becomes a merge sort of 2k items I think
<kenvandine> and i do that 8 filter models
<kamstrup> hehe, i can see that the layout is not exactly trivial...
<kenvandine> one model, filtered by a column into 8 different filtermodels
<kenvandine> then apply the collator filter on that
<kamstrup> ah that way
<kamstrup> a collator on each of the 8 filter models?
<kenvandine> yes
<kamstrup> ok i have the picture
<kenvandine> they are all sorted by time
<kamstrup> still shouldn't be too bad I think
<kenvandine> but the point of all the filters is to have one per stream
<kamstrup> although we are talking 1 + 2*8 "row-added" signals
<kenvandine> right
<kamstrup> + the same amount of "row-removed" beforethat I assume
<kenvandine> i experimented with not clearing the model first
<kenvandine> and it got slower
<kenvandine> because the model got bigger and bigger
<kamstrup> if you wanna do clever updates you almost certainly need some indexes on the right columns
<kenvandine> quickly got over 10k
<kenvandine> i never looked at the indexes
<kamstrup> a 10k model shouldn't be a problem as such
<kamstrup> it all depends on how you use it
<kamstrup> if you traverse the entire model often then sure
<kenvandine> but i am filtering it like crazy
<kamstrup> but if you only use limited subsections and otherwise access it via indexes
<kamstrup> right
<kamstrup> filtering should be efficient as well
<kamstrup> but it sounds odd that you have to rebuild so much data
<kenvandine> just once
<kamstrup> ah, right
<kenvandine> after loading from the resource manager
<kenvandine> so you have instant data, but then i need to bring it in sync with what the service has
<kenvandine> then i just get changes from the service
<kenvandine> which are small
<kamstrup> ok, and in order to take in these changes you need to rebuild the entire model - right?
<kenvandine> yes
<kamstrup> and that's where you take te hit
<kenvandine> well... just on load
<kamstrup> right
<kenvandine> otherwise it is pretty speedy
<kamstrup> kenvandine: any chance the service can just write directly to the resource
<kenvandine> no
<kamstrup> and then the view just re-reads from the RM?
<kamstrup> bugger :-)
<kenvandine> then i need to parse the json on the way out
<kenvandine> and leaks like hell
<kamstrup> hehe
<kenvandine> there is where i plan to be at next cycle though
<kenvandine> using a shared model managed by the service
<kenvandine> but that requires redesign of the db schema
<kenvandine> kamstrup, so if you start gwibber and try to scroll or click anything for the first few seconds you can't
<kenvandine> and sometimes compiz grays it out... but not often
<kenvandine> i've tried moving all the parsing and refreshing the model into async function
<kenvandine> but once i start changing the model, it doesn't matter
<kamstrup> kenvandine: I think I need to dive into the code to really come with some proper suggestions :-)
<kamstrup> kenvandine: but it worries me a bit that shuffling json around - you should profile this
<kenvandine> understand
<kenvandine> we are going to get rid of the json
<kamstrup> kenvandine: some tasty GTimers and some printfs should do fine :-)
<kenvandine> when refresh_model gets run in libgwibber/streams.vala
<kenvandine> that is when it blocks
<kenvandine> until that is done
<kamstrup> kenvandine: ok, i'll dig in when I've had some sleep
<kenvandine> cool
<kenvandine> thx!
<hakermania> Hey guys, I'd like to ask about libunity, what does the UnityLauncherEntry argument inside the C code mean? What should I place there? Any C code example arounf?
<hakermania> around*
<hakermania> Ok, nv I found it :)
#ayatana 2011-09-01
<Andy80> hi guys :)
<didrocks> good morning
<nhaines> didrocks: good morning!
<didrocks> hey nhaines
<MacSlow> hey folks
<didrocks> kamstrup: hey, do you have a second for playing with some cjk foo?
<didrocks> in xapian (apt-xapian index)
<kamstrup> didrocks: give me 15 mins
<htorque> njpatel: it's likely not one of those indicators: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/77655516/log.png
<htorque> the jump at the beginning was caused by opening some programs iirc
<njpatel> htorque, ah, excellent
<njpatel> htorque, I'll try and take a look today
<htorque> but i see that the appmenu is missing, so that's something left to test
<htorque> njpatel: however, i don't quite understand your directions: "probably from metacity, without an exsiting global menu" - should i run metacity --replace and run the command? with valgrind? or just look at mem consumption?
<njpatel> htorque, you can initially just look at memory consumption of the indicator-loader with appmenu, to confirm/deny if it's leaking when you start an app
<njpatel> htorque, valgrind will give you a deeper analysis if it is, I guess
<htorque> but i should replace compiz & co with metacity, right?
<njpatel> htorque, the reason for running it in metacity is that you can't have two appmenus running, so you can't run in unity
<njpatel> htorque, right, exactly
<njpatel> just metacity --replace from a terminal will do
<htorque> so now i don't have a panel at all - is it still useful then?
<njpatel> yep
<njpatel> htorque, with indicator-loader, you're just testing a single indicator at a time, which is good to isolate the issue
<njpatel> if it doesnt' leak, most likely something is wrong in the service itself, or maybe another indicator
<didrocks> kamstrup: I didn't touch that ;)
<kamstrup> didrocks: in a nutshell what I mean: python -c "import os; os.environ['FOOBAR'] = 1; print os.environ['FOOBAR'] == 1"
<apinheiro> njpatel, ok thanks, although he is not here ...
<apinheiro> just in case
<kamstrup> throws an error because you can only pass strings into environ[]
<njpatel> apinheiro, yeah, he's in US so her ein a few hours
<apinheiro> njpatel, these messages from panel-service:
<apinheiro> (unity-panel-service:5672): LIBDBUSMENU-GTK-WARNING **: Child is realized, but doesn't have a GTK Widget!
<apinheiro> (unity-panel-service:5672): LIBDBUSMENU-GTK-WARNING **: Got new menuitem signal, which means they want something
<apinheiro> (unity-panel-service:5672): LIBDBUSMENU-GTK-WARNING **:   that I simply don't have
<apinheiro> do you know if those are normal messages
<njpatel> no idea
<njpatel> I actually have the same question for him
<kamstrup> didrocks: and if you change 1 to '1' you get False: python -c "import os; os.environ['FOOBAR'] = '1'; print os.environ['FOOBAR'] == 1"
<didrocks> kamstrup: oh, I clearly know that, I'm not the one making the patch once again :-)
<apinheiro> njpatel, ok, is because I'm working on that panel-service crash with a11y enabled, and that "he doesn't have a GTK widget" sounds something to look at
<kamstrup> didrocks: the reason I bang on about this is that afaics this means the db is reindexed on *every* run
<kamstrup> didrocks: is the cjk patch applied to xapian by default now in Oneiric?
<didrocks> kamstrup: yeah, and the testsuite doesn't pass anyway, so I think nobody tested it
<didrocks> kamstrup: yes, it is :)
<kamstrup> didrocks: how can that possibly go wrong?!?!?!11 ;-)
<didrocks> kamstrup: touching data! never be afraid :-)
<njpatel> apinheiro, heh, yeah :)
<kamstrup> didrocks: i'll let you touch my data
<didrocks> kamstrup: that's so kind! I let you spy my computer with zg already, so, in some kind of mutual touch ;)
<kamstrup> didrocks: kinky
<htorque> njpatel: the amount of leakage is definitely influenced by the menu (eg. with 180 simple menu items in the menubar, u-p-s mem consumption raises by 15mb, with one it's just a couple of kb)
<njpatel> htorque, right, the reason why I thought it must be appmenu is because the panel service only extracts info about the toplevel menu items (it has no idea about the actual menus), and hence I felt that appmenu is leaking something in constructing the actual menu tree
<htorque> good, because putting more items in a menu didn't change anything
<kamstrup> didrocks: attached a fixed patch to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-xapian-index/+bug/838274
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 838274 in apt-xapian-index (Ubuntu) "The indexer should use the new CJK tokenizer" [High,Fix committed]
<didrocks> kamstrup: did yo utest it, you should get a missing "import os"
<didrocks> in update-apt-xapian-index
<didrocks> kamstrup: tell me if the testsuite still run after that :)
<kamstrup> didrocks: ah, wait...
<kamstrup> didrocks: needs some more fixing I can see :-)
<didrocks> kamstrup: indeed :)
<kamstrup> didrocks: ok v3 of the patch is running with all tests - I even added 3 new test cases so the diff has grown somewhat. But this should be upstreamable now i think
<didrocks> kamstrup: excellent news, do you think it's that part which is used by software-center or we should force a reindexing as well before reopening the database as well?
<kamstrup> didrocks: i don't have the faintest clue what S-C is doing :-)
<kamstrup> didrocks: S-C has it's own index in addition to the axi one
<kamstrup> so S-C prolly needs patching in a similar spirit
<didrocks> kamstrup: ah, because I was thinking that it was using the axi one
<didrocks> so we could have activate this env var unconditionnaly
<kamstrup> didrocks: it is using 2 indexes
<kamstrup> i think we should, but still, the code needs to work regardless as other distros might not set it
<kamstrup> (mostly thinking about the zg bits here though)
<didrocks> kamstrup: indeed
<kamstrup> didrocks: is upstream watching these bugs, or should we ping someone?
<didrocks> kamstrup: I think we should ping them, but I won't block on that for now
<kamstrup> didrocks: i'll move on to the zg-fts bits cjk enablement now, is mvo on top of the S-C issue or should I take that later?
<didrocks> kamstrup: mvo is on vacation, not sure if you have the time to look at it, otherwise tremolux will (but he doesn't really have a clue as well)
<kamstrup> hehe :-)
<kamstrup> i'll see if I get around to it
<om26er> JohnLea, Hi could you confirm if bug 838759 is a design decision or a bug?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 838759 in unity "window title should not appear until cursor leaves the menubar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838759
<didrocks> kamstrup: great ;)
<Trevinho> om26er: I know it's strange but it seems something the design want... No menu unitil you move again! :o
<om26er> oh twitter people are saying its by design :/ andyrock Trevinho
<Trevinho> yes..
<om26er> Trevinho, :(
<andyrock> om26er, have you said my pastebin?
<andyrock> it should be easy to fix but the comment let me think that it's by design
<om26er> andyrock, the window button problem stands, doesnt it?
<om26er> on second click on the menus window buttons dont show
<om26er> unless cursor is moved
<Trevinho> om26er: are you still confirming the bug of the VP switch (move to another VP and select the launcher button of the focused window in another vp => Nothing happens after the click) ?
<Trevinho> If you do please report, I can confirm :P
<Trevinho> (and work on it)
<om26er> Trevinho, i confirmed it yesterday, i am reporting it now :)
<Trevinho> thanks :)
<Trevinho> since DBO can't reproduce it...
<andyrock> om26er, which window button problem?
<Trevinho> om26er: check these issues using my branch please, I guess I've solved them...
<om26er> andyrock, see in the video, when i click on the menu again window controls dont appear the faded title does
<Trevinho> om26er: Ah, That's true
<Trevinho> I'll fix that.
<om26er> Trevinho, i'll report that and assign you as well ;)
<Trevinho> ok
<om26er> launcher stuck hard this time, it wont hide :/
<Trevinho> These panel issues are really annoying
<andyrock> om26er, wanted behavior too?
<Trevinho> but I guess we're in the right way...
<andyrock> i mean the window buttons appear only when the menu appears...
<Trevinho> andyrock: it could be... But it's better to have a reply by JohnLea (or design, in general) about these things.
<andyrock> so if the menu is not shown why we should show the window buttons?
<andyrock> Trevinho, mpt too (I guess)
<Trevinho> of course...
<Trevinho> no, andyrock... The problem is on the second click
<Trevinho> On the second click only the menus are shown
<Trevinho> and this is not so consistent
<andyrock> ah i got it...
<Trevinho> also if that is enough (as you reclick without moving, we guess you want to see the menu)
<andyrock> Trevinho, btw i guess that design info are needed
<andyrock> *is
<JohnLea> Trevinho; andyrock; just about to grab lunch, will get back to you in 30min
<andyrock> JohnLea, np
<JohnLea> om26er, Trevinho; re. bug #838759, good catch! Yes the current behaviour wrong and needs fixing.  I've confirmed the bug
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 838759 in unity "window title should not appear until cursor leaves the menubar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838759
<JohnLea> om26er, Trevinho; any idea how people got the idea that bug 838759 behaviour was by design?  !! :/
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 838759 in unity "window title should not appear until cursor leaves the menubar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838759
<Trevinho> JohnLea: this is the code that implement that http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/679655/
<Trevinho> I also found a bug somewhere mentioning it
<JohnLea> Trevinho; cool, I've confirmed bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/838759 if you could fix it that would be great ;-)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 838759 in unity "window title should not appear until cursor leaves the menubar" [Undecided,New]
<Trevinho> ok JohnLea  I'll work on it
<Trevinho> JohnLea: and what about the other thing we discussed before? (as you can see in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/78696225/5ii.ogg on second click no window buttons are shown)
<JohnLea> Trevinho; yes that's a bug, would that not be fixed with the solution om26er outlined in bug #838759?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 838759 in unity "window title should not appear until cursor leaves the menubar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838759
<Trevinho> I guess it will JohnLea. I've to check btw
<Trevinho> JohnLea: however about the #838759 I'm pretty sure that I've read about that behaviour in an unity bug (maybe related to ayatana design too)....
<Trevinho> Otherwise I would have fixed for a long time :D
<JohnLea> Trevinho; it is definitely a bug ;-)  If any other items like this come up please ping me and I'll try to help clarify
<Trevinho> No problem... However I'm happy it's a bug :P I didn't like that behavior!
<Andy80> hi guys :)
<Andy80> Kaleo: I'll have to upgrade my vm to Oneiric before being able to work to that bug ;) doing right now
<Kaleo> Andy80: good luck ;)
<apinheiro> tedg, hi, you here?
<tedg> apinheiro, Yes, but I'm testing something where my machine might shutdown (or I get a good backtrace)... give me a second.
<Andy80> apinheiro: the one who work at Igalia?
<apinheiro> Andy80, yes
<apinheiro> I usually use API as my IRC nickname, but someone already registered it
<Andy80> apinheiro: hi :) don't know if you remember me.... I did a summer internship 2 years ago in your company :) que tal?
<apinheiro> tedg, btw, my previous question, Im trying to fix that crash on panel-service when a11y is on, and I have these messages:
<apinheiro> <apinheiro> (unity-panel-service:5672): LIBDBUSMENU-GTK-WARNING **: Child is realized, but doesn't have a GTK Widget!
<apinheiro> <apinheiro> (unity-panel-service:5672): LIBDBUSMENU-GTK-WARNING **: Got new menuitem signal, which means they want something
<apinheiro> <apinheiro> (unity-panel-service:5672): LIBDBUSMENU-GTK-WARNING **:   that I simply don't have
<apinheiro> it is normal?
<apinheiro> Andy80, hi, yes I remember you  ;), fine thanks
<tedg> apinheiro, Uhm, I don't think that those should be happening.  Do they happen without a11y?
<apinheiro> well, I asked that in the morning
<apinheiro> and
 * apinheiro looking backlog
<Andy80> andyrock: I'm upgrading my VM to Oneiric. I will need your help with that Nautilus-dbus stuff later if you can
<andyrock> of course
<apinheiro> <njpatel> apinheiro, yeah, he's in US so her ein a few hours
<apinheiro> <apinheiro> njpatel, these messages from panel-service:
<apinheiro> <apinheiro> (unity-panel-service:5672): LIBDBUSMENU-GTK-WARNING **: Child is realized, but doesn't have a GTK Widget!
<apinheiro> <apinheiro> (unity-panel-service:5672): LIBDBUSMENU-GTK-WARNING **: Got new menuitem signal, which means they want something
<apinheiro> <apinheiro> (unity-panel-service:5672): LIBDBUSMENU-GTK-WARNING **:   that I simply don't have
<apinheiro> <apinheiro> do you know if those are normal messages
<apinheiro> <njpatel> no idea
<apinheiro> <njpatel> I actually have the same question for him
<apinheiro> tedg, ^
<apinheiro> tedg, I also see messages like:
<apinheiro>  "IndicatorObject class does not have an accessible description."
<andyrock> Andy80, btw Kaleo told me that in QT there is already a dbus helper class...
<apinheiro> and finally, I have a question about indicators, although not sure if they are related with dbusmenu
<apinheiro> on indicator.h:
<apinheiro> 	@get_menu: Gets the image for this object.  Should be set
<apinheiro> 		to #NULL if @get_entries is set.  Should NOT ref the
<apinheiro> 		object.
<tedg> apinheiro, The not having an accessible description is just to make us do the work, though it shouldn't harm anything.
<andyrock> so i think you should use it instead of UnityCore::DBusWrapper
<Andy80> andyrock: I know that class, but I don't need help for using the QDbus class, I need to know which parameters to give it, which strings to use ecc....
<apinheiro> tedg, ok, anyway I'm just setting "" in this case
<apinheiro> but about that doc
<apinheiro> do you know what would happen if you ref that menu?
<andyrock> Andy80, no problem then :)
<tedg> apinheiro, Memory leak
<Andy80> andyrock: thanks :)
<apinheiro> tedg, why, shouldn't the indicator be freed on the last unref?
<tedg> apinheiro, But, in general, it should be "does not" instead of "should not"
<andyrock> Andy80, yw...
<tedg> apinheiro, The indicator should, but it's saying that by calling "get_menu" you are not incrementing the ref count.
<apinheiro> tedg, ah ok
<apinheiro> but you could increment the ref count
<apinheiro> right?
<apinheiro> I mean to ensure that the object will be alive while you are working with it
<tedg> apinheiro, Yes, and you should if you're working with it.  Just some of the callers just pass it to GTK which does it's own increment, so I didn't want to have one stuck in the middle.
<tedg> apinheiro, This way users can treat it more like a floating count.
<apinheiro> tedg, anyway don't worry, just asking, on the a11y side there are a weak reaf, so if the object is freed, the atk object should be notified
<apinheiro> tedg, so going back to my "weird messages questions"
<apinheiro> do you know if I'm doing something wrong?
<apinheiro> I mean if there are something missing in my system?
<tedg> apinheiro, No, it's basically saying that it thinks the menu item should have a GTK Menu Item associated with it, but it doesn't.
<tedg> apinheiro, It could be a sign of some sort of race condition.
<tedg> apinheiro, I'd be curious if the a11y slows down the construction of the GTK+ widgets in some way that we're not taking into account.
<apinheiro> working on a bug and found a race condition ... this can be tricky
<apinheiro> hmm
<apinheiro> tedg, well, in that case I will disable a11y and check it
<apinheiro> but anyway, njpatel said that he also wanted to ask
<tedg> apinheiro, Yeah, that'd be best, just to see.
<apinheiro> so I suppose that this also happens without a11y  enabled
<tedg> apinheiro, Yeah, njpatel is like that ;-)
<njpatel> I like to ask things
<htorque> tedg: njpatel asked me to run indicator-loader to check memory consumption of an indicator, but that seemed to fail and i think i got the very same warnings
<htorque> could this be connected?
 * tedg keeps njpatel's secret that he's really 5 years old.
<njpatel> htorque, UBUNTU_MENU_PROXY="" before using indicator-loader apparently!
<njpatel> tedg, but WHY?
<htorque> tried that
<tedg> htorque, Getting the same messages or no indicator at all?
<htorque> the indicator-loader just showed "File" (appmenu loaded)
<apinheiro> njpatel, we were talking about this:
<apinheiro> <njpatel> apinheiro, yeah, he's in US so her ein a few hours
<apinheiro> <apinheiro> njpatel, these messages from panel-service:
<apinheiro> <apinheiro> (unity-panel-service:5672): LIBDBUSMENU-GTK-WARNING **: Child is realized, but doesn't have a GTK Widget!
<apinheiro> <apinheiro> (unity-panel-service:5672): LIBDBUSMENU-GTK-WARNING **: Got new menuitem signal, which means they want something
<apinheiro> <apinheiro> (unity-panel-service:5672): LIBDBUSMENU-GTK-WARNING **:   that I simply don't have
<apinheiro> <apinheiro> do you know if those are normal messages
<tedg> htorque, Did you set UBUNTU_MENUPROXY= or the wrong env like njpatel said ;-)
<apinheiro> <njpatel> no idea
<htorque> yeah, thanks apinheiro
<apinheiro> <njpatel> I actually have the same question for him
<apinheiro> and your "I actually have the same question for him"
<htorque> tedg: the right one ;)
<tedg> htorque, Hmm, that works for me...
<tedg> htorque, Which indicator?
<htorque> i posted the output of indicator-loader here but that did get logged and i'm on a different machine now :(
<htorque> appmenu
<apinheiro> btw, when I get the panel-service working without a crash
<apinheiro> I can open the menus with the mouse pointer
<apinheiro> but I'm not able to navigate or give the focus with F10
<apinheiro> is this only happening to me?
<apinheiro> njpatel, htorque ? ^
<htorque> F10 doesn't do anything here
<apinheiro> ?Â¿
<apinheiro> F10 is supposed to give the focus to the panel
<apinheiro> have this changed?
<apinheiro> is not related to those memory comsuption issues, but just asking as is related with the panel
<htorque> when opened with the mouse i can navigate within the toplevel menu, but i cannot switch left and right
<apinheiro> somewhat offtopic I know
<apinheiro> htorque, urgh
<apinheiro> that confirms that panel key nav is broken :/
<tedg> htorque, Hmm, I'm not sure that appmenu works in the loader in general, since it's based on which window has focus.  When the loader has focus, it tries to show menus from it.  So you can't really click on another window and interact with its menus.
<tedg> It unfortunately makes appmenu ridiculously hard to debug.
<htorque> tedg it was just to confirm whether it's causing bug 835646
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 835646 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity-panel-service memory leak when starting various applications" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/835646
<tedg> We should probably add a delayed mode for using the loader.  We could use the loading hints to determine whether it should be on or not.
<tedg> njpatel, Did you ever include a mode in unity-panel-service where you could specify which indicators it would load?
<htorque> apinheiro: i think it's not broken per se, but rather that the mouse pointer keeps the selection on the toplevel menu it's pointing to - with F10 working, this wouldn't be a problem i guess
<njpatel> tedg, I did, but it seems like someone removed it :(
<apinheiro> njpatel, do you know something about this F10 issue? I mean, is F10 now assigned to a different short-cut?
<njpatel> apinheiro, nope, need to investigate it
<apinheiro> njpatel, ok, I will keep focus on the crash then
 * apinheiro reminds that he need to check if those messages are also present without a11y enabled
<htorque_> tedg: that's the output i got from indicator-loader when testing it earlier: http://paste.ubuntu.com/679567/
<htorque_> will try again
<tedg> htorque_, You've got a GTK2/3 conflict there.  You need to use loader3 with the GTK3 indicators.
<htorque_> oh dear
<htorque_> is that in libindicator-tools?
<tedg> htorque_, I think so.
<htorque_> libindicator3-tools...
<tedg> Oh, yes
<htorque_> meh
<apinheiro> tedg, forget my question, it seems that those warning only appear if I launch by hand the panel service from a terminal that it is not in the same session that unity
<apinheiro> executing this "in a normal way" I don't get those messages
<apinheiro> sorry for the noies
<apinheiro> noise
<tedg> Hmm, that's interesting... I wonder why that is.
<htorque_> \o/ loader3 works
<apinheiro> tedg, in my environment I have a "working session" and the session where I made the "unity --replace", so I move from one to the other using ctrl+alt+F7/F8
<apinheiro> I was running the panel-service from a terminal on my working session,
<apinheiro> (with a export DISPLAY)
<apinheiro> and in this case I got those messages
<htorque_> njpatel: starting gimp adds lots of ram to the loader process ;-)
<apinheiro> again, sorry for the noise
<htorque_> njpatel: should i now run valgrind on that and attach the output to the bug report?
<tedg> htorque_, Yeah, that'd be good.
<htorque_> will do :)
<tedg> htorque_, Firefox is also good if you have lots of bookmarks.
<htorque_> unfortunately no ff user
<htorque_> kile and gimp work fine
<htorque_> tedg: there are a couple of "???" entries in the log about libfontconfig/libexpat/libpango but i couldn't find debug symbols for those packages. is that a problem? also i forgot to install dbgsym for loader3 :-/
<tedg> htorque_, naw, we're not going to get those solved today :-/
<htorque_> ok, it's uploaded: bug 835646
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 835646 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity-panel-service memory leak when starting various applications" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/835646
<htorque_> if you need anything else, let me know
<jml> tedg: hi
<tedg> jml, Howdy
<tedg> htorque_, Thanks!
<htorque_> tedg: yw :)
<tedg> Unfortunately that doesn't seem to have any smoking guns in it.
 * tedg quickly concludes that there's no way it's his fault, it must be njpatel's bug ;-)
<jml> tedg: I just tried the valgrind thing you suggested
<jml> tedg: but... umm... where does the output go?
<jml> bug 740382
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 740382 in indicator-session (Ubuntu) "gtk-logout-helper crashed with SIGABRT in __libc_start_main()" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740382
<tedg> jml, You'll need to redirect it to a file.
<tedg> jml, So I guess I should have included that in my command line :-)
<tedg> htorque_, Did you just start GIMP, or start it and shut it down before closing the loader?
<jml> tedg: np. I'll do that now. How will I know if I've triggered the condition?
<tedg> jml, Well, I'm guessing that it doesn't shutdown, no?
<jml> tedg: ok :)
<tedg> jml, I'm guessing that somewhere in that log there has to be an invalid read/write.
<jml> tedg: stdout & stderr, or just one of them?
<tedg> jml, Oh, grab them all.  /me is feeling generous with LP's disk space.
<htorque_> tedg: i started it, waited for the loader to show the menu, then closed it. started it again, a.s.o.
<tedg> htorque_, Okay, makes sense.  Just making sure.
<tedg> As much as I love blaming njpatel, I try to not do it arbitrarily, well, not all the time.
<njpatel> htorque, it's tedg's fault and he knows it
<njpatel> I don't leak. Nor does my code.
<htorque_> i only know that it's not my fault. opening applications seems like expected behavior. :P
<Trevinho> Some times ago I also gave a look to this problem
<andyrock> JohnLea, Finally I found the time to fix this https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/832631
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 832631 in unity (Ubuntu) "Dnd hover timeout in spread view does not work as expected" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<andyrock> i've add this behavior
<Trevinho> and it seems that unity-panel-service itself is working well
<Trevinho> according to valgrind
<Trevinho> it seems something more related to the indicators
<Trevinho> and libappmenu seems the one
<tedg> Trevinho, Heresy I say!
 * tedg sends the Spanish inquisition!
<Trevinho> tedg: I know it's not your fault... :)
<andyrock> the timeout is reset if the mouse hover another window or if the mouse move more than 3px
<Trevinho> but, the fact is that also running the appmenu-indicator in natty, the leak persists
<tedg> Trevinho, Did you try running the test app indicators under valgrind and see if anything came up?
<Trevinho> so, maybe it's not directly connected to that indicator, but to something going wrong in the framework
<Trevinho> I don't, but there's a valgrind log attached to the mentioned bug
<Trevinho> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/78705404/valgrind.log
<andyrock> there is a 6x6 rect and the mouse pointer is the center, when the mouse pointer go outside of this rect the timeout is reset
<andyrock> is it ok?
<tedg> Trevinho, That is appmenu not application though...
<tedg> Really both of them are pretty dynamic.  If there's a memory leak, it'd have to be one of those.
<jml> tedg: attached
<jml> tedg: my computer doesn't have working g-s-d now.
<Trevinho> ah, sorry tedg I'll check
<htorque_> applications definitely has one: bug 829961
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 829961 in Unity Foundations "indicator-applications leaks memory" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829961
<jml> tedg: so, uhh, I'll do launch that manually
<htorque_> but that's not affected by starting applications
<JohnLea> andyrock; great news!  Do you know if it will be landing in today's or next week's release?
<andyrock> it's not a unity bug but a scale plugin one
<andyrock> https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/compiz-core/fix-832631
<smspillaz> andyrock: poke
<smspillaz> andyrock: what's the reason for resetting scale on mouse motion ?
<smspillaz> (or a buffer of mouse motion)
<smspillaz> seems like it only makes sense to do it per window
<smspillaz> err
<smspillaz> the scale dnd timeout
<andyrock> smspillaz, well if you move the mouse a lot without changing window the timeout don't reset
<andyrock> *doesn't
<andyrock> JohnLea, ^^^
<smspillaz> andyrock: ah, so you want it so that it it resets when you move the mouse around inside the client window a little bit, but not when you move it a lot
<andyrock> smspillaz, yes
<smspillaz> andyrock: in that case it might make more sense to accumulate motion events
<andyrock> feel free to remove the rect... :)
<smspillaz> andyrock: like, watch MotionNotify, and if we've moved more than X pixels then reset the timeout
<smspillaz> (timer.stop (), timer.start ())
<andyrock> during the xndd we don't get the motionnotify events
<smspillaz> ah, crap, that's right
<smspillaz> ehh
<andyrock> i think because the mouse is grabbed by the source
<smspillaz> well hang on
<andyrock> but the source should do it for us
<om26er> Trevinho, bug 838923 wont that be compiz?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 838923 in unity (Ubuntu) "Start dragging a maximized application title causes it to re-decorate" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838923
<smspillaz> you should get xdndPosition?
<smspillaz> om26er: the redecoration is done by unity
<andyrock> yes....
<smspillaz> andyrock: so you can use that, right ?
<om26er> there are a few other bugs reported already about it though.
<andyrock> case ClientMessage:
<andyrock> 	    if (event->xclient.message_type == Atoms::xdndPosition)
<andyrock> 	    {
<andyrock> smspillaz, ^^^
<om26er> smspillaz, oh ok..
<smspillaz> andyrock: what's wrong with using xdndPosition ?
<andyrock> smspillaz, we alredy use xdndPosition :)
<andyrock> and get x,y form the message event
<smspillaz> andyrock: right. so instead of using the rect, what you could do is accumulate the pointer movement
<Trevinho> om26er: I gess that it's just an unity policy
<smspillaz> (eg, save the last x and y co-ords, and apply that to a global dmovement)
<Trevinho> I can control the decoration, but I don't know how to manage it
<smspillaz> and then if dmovement > threshold reset the timer
<andyrock> ok... i got it
<andyrock> can i ask you why? CompRect is slow?
<smspillaz> andyrock: I'm thinking of cases where the user moves their cursor in one direction the entire time
<andyrock> smspillaz, i don't understand... if the mouse move outside of the rect the rect update itself.
<andyrock> but i will do it... np
<smspillaz> andyrock: right, although this way is slightly more consistent
<andyrock> what do you think is a good threshold?
<smspillaz> might be worth making it an option
<andyrock> ok ok :)
<smspillaz> you know how that works?
<andyrock> of course...
<smspillaz> awesome
<andyrock> i added some option to unity code
<smspillaz> :)
<andyrock> i think it's the same
<smspillaz> yep, same
<andyrock> we have an option for the timeout so it make sense
<smspillaz> also, compiz coding style has spaces between function calls and brackets
<smspillaz> and spaces between operators and members
<smspillaz> oh, I think that it might be better to have a member in the ScaleScreen class "mDistance"
<smspillaz> oh! and I almost forgot, pointerX and pointerY are updated on xdndPosition iirc
<smspillaz> so you don't need to save their position :)
<smspillaz> you can just use pointerX - lastPointerX
<andyrock> so there is no need to use this stuff
<andyrock> int x = event->xclient.data.l[2] >> 16;
<andyrock> 			int y = event->xclient.data.l[2] & 0xffff;
<andyrock> smspillaz, ^^^
<smspillaz> andyrock: right, although you'll need to know what the last pointer position was
<andyrock> smspillaz, using lastPointerX and pointerX and Pythagorean Theorem works well :)
<smspillaz> andyrock: sweet :)
<smspillaz> andyrock: update your merge proposal and I'll merge that in
<smspillaz> good work
<andyrock> smspillaz, do you prefer a private member or i can use optionGetDndDistance every time?
<andyrock> all the other option are not saved in a private member
<om26er> smspillaz, is this branch https://code.launchpad.net/~smspillaz/unity/unity.fix_838062/+merge/73703 supposed to fix those issues reported in minimize?
<om26er> like windows wont raise etc
<smspillaz> om26er: it will fix input still being around for those windows like chromium with CSD
<smspillaz> andyrock: yeah, using the option directly is fine
<om26er> smspillaz, that would close a bunch of lp bugs, I'll link them as I find :0
<om26er> *:)
<smspillaz> om26er:  :)
<smspillaz> some applications do some really weird stuff
<andyrock> smspillaz, can you give me the astyle command to format properly the code
<andyrock> you know compiz style is weird (tab + space i really don't understand why :) )
<om26er> Trevinho, will your panel fix branch also fix bug 835989 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 835989 in unity (Ubuntu) "Launcher - does not hide if revealed from top 24px of the left edge of the screen" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/835989
<andyrock> om26er, about dnd dash bug
<andyrock> the cause of the problem is similar but it's due to different parts of code
<andyrock> so fixing one doesn't fix the other
<andyrock> one... but if we found a solution we can use it both in the dash problem and collection window one
<Trevinho> om26er: I've to check but I guess no
<Trevinho> om26er: checked. No
<om26er> andyrock, aha alright
<Trevinho> Maybe I'll look to that aftherwards
<om26er> Trevinho, that'l be cool
<Andy80> Kaleo: I've noticed this behaviour on Unity-2d running on Oneiric: even if you maximize a window, you still see two application window title. The one in the top unity bar and the other one below. I try to make a screenshot...
 * om26er think Andy80 is using compiz
<Andy80> om26er: eh?
<smspillaz> andyrock: I don't have it on me
<om26er> Andy80, the problem happens when you are using compiz with unity-2d
<om26er> Andy80, bug 705182
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 705182 in unity-2d "[window management] With Compiz window decorations are shown both in the panel and in the window itself" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705182
<Andy80> om26er: I don't know if I'm using compiz or not... I just upgraded my VM from Natty to Oneiric
<Andy80> I didn't choose to use compiz by my own
<om26er> Andy80, you can try metacity --replace and afterwards see if the issue happens or not
<om26er> but there must be a better way to know which window manager is running though i dont know how :/
<Andy80> om26er: tried.... I still have the same bug
<Andy80> om26er: how do I disable Compiz?
<om26er> Andy80, not sure how, metacity --replace disables compiz
<om26er> gotta run, its EID :D
<andyrock> smspillaz, what do you mean for "I don't have it on me"?
<smspillaz> andyrock: like, I don't have any astyle command that you can use
<smspillaz> andyrock: but I don't really like autoindent
<smspillaz> causes problems
<smspillaz> andyrock: the general style is
<smspillaz> 8 wide tabs
<smspillaz> spaces between functions and brackets ()
<smspillaz> camelCaseVariables
<smspillaz> and the tabbing goes something like
<smspillaz> 1 indent:
<smspillaz> 4 spaces
<smspillaz> 2 indents
<smspillaz> 1 tab
<smspillaz> 3 indents:
<smspillaz> 1 tab, 4 spaces
<smspillaz> 4 indents
<smspillaz> 2 tabs
<smspillaz> etc
<smspillaz> so think of it as "indents" and "half indents"
<smspillaz> where an indent is 1 tab and a half indent is 4 spaces
<andyrock> ok.... it's a bit weird :)
<smspillaz> (it's X11 style)
<smspillaz> yes it is
<smspillaz> however, changing it is a nightmare
<L42y> Hi, I'm building unity in Arch Linux. When I run unity with command: "unity --replace -v --log=~/unity.log", it ouput "unity-panel-service: no process found" "compiz (core) - Debug: Could not stat() file /usr/lib/compiz/libcore.so : No such file or directory" "compiz (core) - Warn: Value type is not yet set" and unity dosen't show up
<smspillaz> because if you change it you'll break bzr blame and git blame and we can't do that since a lot of the code is not well documented
<smspillaz> L42y: is the unity plugin being loaded?
<smspillaz> look for "Initializing unityshell options ... done"
<L42y> smspillaz: I enable it in ccsm
<smspillaz> L42y: right, but is it actually being loaded
<andyrock> my unity creshed.... damn
<L42y> smspillaz: When I run ccsm, I see "Initializing unityshell options...done"
<L42y> Is this means unity loaded?
<smspillaz> yes
<smspillaz> and you can't see anything ?
<L42y> smspillaz: Yeah, I run the command in kde.
<smspillaz> haven't really got any ideas then, sorry man :/
<L42y> smspillaz: Thank you for your help.
<smspillaz> andyrock: mergee
<smspillaz> andyrock: merged
<andyrock> smspillaz, thx :)
<thumper> morning
#ayatana 2011-09-02
<didrocks> good morning
<kamstrup> didrocks: https://launchpad.net/zeitgeist-extensions/trunk/0.0.9 is out. Never mind 0.0.8...
<didrocks> kamstrup: excellent, thanks :)
<kamstrup> njpatel: I'll be looking into the libunity gir issue
<njpatel> kamstrup, awesome :D
<njpatel> the pythonics will be happy
<njpatel> (and me, I need to write a grooveshark lens for app developer week!)
<njpatel> s/lens/scope
<kamstrup> njpatel: lol
<kamstrup> njpatel: any bug report?
<njpatel> kamstrup, none that I can find, but davidcalle has been venturing into making a python lens/scope
<njpatel> kamstrup, really I just need someone to test to see what's broken, if anything
<njpatel> kamstrup, main issue is that it's had no testing...
<kamstrup> njpatel: ok, i'll try to forward port my old python lens and see where it takes me
<njpatel> shweet
 * davidcalle hugs kamstrup
<kamstrup> davidcalle: :-)
<didrocks> kamstrup: zeitgeist-daemon is craching a lot since the update
<didrocks> kamstrup: the fts one
<AlanBell> I have been doing some hacking about so that I could use the application lens
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/appmenu.ogv
<AlanBell> I feel the lens suffers from extreme scope creep to the point that it fails the primary purpose of launching applications I want to run
<didrocks> kamstrup: bug #839382
<AlanBell> so I ripped out the zeitgeist unpredictable stuff at the top and the advert for random stuff from software centre at the bottom and switched the filters to categories
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 839382 could not be found
<AlanBell> now I can find and run applications again \o/
<seif> didrocks, i will also look into it
<didrocks> seif: adding you to it
<AlanBell> would there be a way of making the main applications lens work like this (configuration option somewhere to turn off the cruft)?
<didrocks> seif: done, you should have access
<seif> wow
<seif> this is messed up
<didrocks> kamstrup: seif: so, you have the symbol from the cjkied fts, the system one is running now and you should get the rest of the stacktrace in a few min (minus the fts part as the symbol won't match)
<kamstrup> didrocks: odd, I am dogfooding it here without issues...
<didrocks> kamstrup: I just installed the new version, killed the daemon, killed the datahub, and the unity-files-lens
<didrocks> kamstrup: then go to the file lens, it restarts the family
<didrocks> make a search
<didrocks> a get this crash, reliably (and not result at all, of course)
<didrocks> kamstrup: do you think I missed something?
<kamstrup> didrocks: don't know... I just killed zg here, and let the rest of the services sort themselves out :-)
<didrocks> kamstrup: I'm downgrading fts to confirm
<didrocks> kamstrup: no crash after downgrading and killing zg
<kamstrup> didrocks: ?! 32 or 64 bit?
<didrocks> kamstrup: 32
<kamstrup> didrocks: m2
<didrocks> kamstrup: weren't you talking about a quiet Friday? :p
<kamstrup> didrocks: so, it's a segfault in libxapian in fact, and not just some Python screwup
<didrocks> kamstrup: indeed, seems you trigger a bug in the xapian xjk patch, maybe?
<didrocks> cjk*
<didrocks> kamstrup: I think your database is upgraded with the zg-fts change?
<kamstrup> didrocks: can you run the test.sh script from the fts package?
<didrocks> kamstrup: ok, should I reinstall it?
<kamstrup> didrocks: you need to install Xvfb
<didrocks> or it takes from trunk?
<kamstrup> didrocks: you can run it seprately, it's sets up its own bus and everything
<didrocks> kamstrup: let's have a try
<kamstrup> didrocks: from tarball or trunk - it's the same
<didrocks> kamstrup: $ ./fts/test.sh
<didrocks> Done - tests passed
<kamstrup> ?!
<kamstrup> odd
<kamstrup> so, probably happening when reindexing...
<didrocks> kamstrup: I don't see how it takes the local fts extension in your script
<kamstrup> didrocks: magic
<didrocks> export PYTHONPATH="$(dirname $0)"
<didrocks> ok :)
<didrocks> kamstrup: I fear magic :)
<kamstrup> as you should
<kamstrup> :-)
<didrocks> heh :)
<didrocks> kamstrup: let me reinstall 0.0.9 and try, if it was the reindexing
<kamstrup> didrocks: can you kill zeitgeist-daemon and start it manually in a term to watch the output?
<didrocks> kamstrup: sure
<kamstrup> didrocks: or wait - we have a ~/.cache/zeitgeist/daemon.log in fact :-)
<didrocks> kamstrup: I see a lot of "Indexing"
<kamstrup> didrocks: that indicates that it reindexes your db
<didrocks> [DEBUG - zeitgeist.fts] Committing FTS index
<didrocks> ok, let's try a search
<didrocks> working now
<kamstrup> hehe, I feared as muc
<kamstrup> h
<didrocks> weird, the reindexing sounds fast, but maybe you continued where it failed?
<kamstrup> no, it should be transactional
<didrocks> ok, so maybe as it was started by the lens
<kamstrup> s/should be/is/
<didrocks> and the lens was started while opening the file one
<didrocks> I didn't wait enough
<didrocks> hum, would be there a way to avoid that? block answering?
<didrocks> or returning dummy empty data?
<kamstrup> didrocks: yeah, the reindexing can take a little time depending on log size and cpu
<didrocks> it will be better than nothing
<didrocks> you restarted insulting my computer! :-)
<didrocks> yes, it's slow! ;-)
<kamstrup> didrocks: lol
<didrocks> kamstrup: so maybe sending back empty data? no result for a while is better than a crash?
<kamstrup> didrocks: I still don't understand why we crash...
<kamstrup> didrocks: in theory it should just work
<seif> kamstrup, i think i know one of the crashes
<seif> well its not ur bug exactly
<kamstrup> seif: "one of"? we have more than one?
<seif> lol
<seif> https://bugs.launchpad.net/zeitgeist/+bug/807950/
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 807950 in zeitgeist (Ubuntu Oneiric) "zeitgeist-daemon crashed with LookupError in remove_from_connection(): <_zeitgeist.engine.remote.RemoteInterface at /org/gnome/zeitgeist/log/activity at 0xb74ee2cc> is not exported at a location matching (None,None)" [High,Triaged]
<seif> but this is a crash that happens on session end
<kamstrup> ah
<seif> but notified upon the next session start
<didrocks> kamstrup: I guess we should find a solution before I push fts to oneiric, isn't it?
<kamstrup> seif: we are discussing a crash that occurs in relation to me enabling indexing of CJK characters in the latest fts
<kamstrup> didrocks: :-S yes
<seif> kamstrup, ok count me out
<seif> sorry
<kamstrup> seif: :-)
<kamstrup> didrocks: it's not impossible that it's some race condition in libxapian. I do the indexing in a thread to avoid starving the mainloop of zg - but searches are coming in from the main thread. I am quite sure the xapian API is thread safe, but maybe not so mch :-)
<didrocks> kamstrup: as you wish, I'm happy with a workaround for blocking the search meanwhile if it touches xapian
<kamstrup> didrocks: I can see, most conveniently, the threadstacktrace includes the line in the fts.py the segfault was at
<kamstrup> didrocks: namely line 251
<didrocks> I would be surprised about xapian not being thread safe as well
<kamstrup> didrocks: it's probably trying to write some updates in the worker thread, and then I try to close the index from the main thread
<didrocks> kamstrup: makes sense :)
<andyrock> Trevinho, around=
<andyrock> ?
<andyrock> smspillaz, around?
<andyrock> with unity (last revno) when i minimize an app and then i raise it, only the window decorators appear...
<andyrock> only client side decorator windows (like chrome) work...
<kamstrup> didrocks: Browsing the docs I can't actually see anywhere they explicitly say that the apis are thread safe
<kamstrup> didrocks: maybe I just assume it because I am used to that from Lucene...
<kamstrup> it is single-writer-multiple-reader, but that's not the same as thread safe
<didrocks> kamstrup: oh really? but anyway, you are in single-writer one-reader mode there, isn't it?
<kamstrup> didrocks: it would look like that, but not really :-) The .close() call is from the main thread, and it may do writing...
<didrocks> ahah!
<didrocks> yeah, ok ;)
<kamstrup> didrocks: aha! so I am a dufus... http://xapian.org/docs/overview.html (search for "thread")
<didrocks> kamstrup: you can say you wanted to ensure it's the case ;)
<kamstrup> didrocks: so you say your api is not thread safe?! I don't believe you! ;-)
<didrocks> kamstrup: heh, "I will proove your're wrong!" :-)
<kamstrup> didrocks: i'll grab some tea and fix it
<didrocks> kamstrup: I guess you mean "fix xapian to make it thread safe" </kidding>
<smspillaz> andyrock: rgeat
<smspillaz> *great
<smspillaz> andyrock: I'll fix that, hang on
<andyrock> smspillaz, thx
<kamstrup> didrocks: fudge! this is gonna be hairy... :-( sqlite is not thread safe - so I can't access the zg db from my xapian worker thread...
<kamstrup> didrocks: aha! I am so clever! I have the elegant solution!
<didrocks> kamstrup: \o/ what are you doing to do?
<seif> kamstrup, you are a show off (I wish i had those mighty hacking fingers)
<kamstrup> didrocks: ok can you test r63?
<didrocks> kamstrup: sure, one sec
<didrocks> kamstrup: the thing is that I'm already upgraded
<kamstrup> didrocks: one way to test is to kill zg, and then rm -rf ~/.local/share/zeitgeist/fts.index, and restart zg
<kamstrup> which also reminds me... I should add a DBus method to trigger a reindex...
<didrocks> kamstrup: ok ;) I won't loose all my files indexation that are already indexed? (won't start from an empty database)
<seif> didrocks, nope
<kamstrup> didrocks: nope, the db is left intact, it's just the xapian  index
<seif> didrocks, u lose them if u remove activity.sqlite
<didrocks> ok, doing then :)
<didrocks> oh so, it will reopens all the files seen by zg (in activity.sqlite) and restart indexing, got it!
<didrocks> kamstrup: hum, crashedâ¦
<didrocks> kamstrup: weird, it continued indexing, for a while (can see that), I made some research, still indexing
<didrocks> and at some pointâ¦ crashâ¦
<didrocks> then respawn
<didrocks> and now, it indexed everything again
<didrocks> and search works
<didrocks> qlet me check if the crash is not when I killed it
<didrocks> no, it's a little bit later
<didrocks> 8875 [2011-09-02 12:57:24,301] - DEBUG - zeitgeist.fts - Indexing 'application:/
<didrocks> 11738 [2011-09-02 12:58:19,247] - DEBUG - singleton - Checking for another running instance...
<didrocks> 11738 [2011-09-02 12:58:19,839] - INFO - zeitgeist.sql - Using database: /home/didrocks/.local/share/zeitgeist/activity.sqlite
<didrocks> kamstrup: easier to read like that: http://paste.ubuntu.com/680468/
<kamstrup> didrocks: a "crash" is a little less well defined because we have multiple threads here. Just because one thread prints stacktrace the others can continue running
<didrocks> kamstrup: ah, indeedâ¦ it seems the whole process stopped for a while though?
<kamstrup> didrocks: odd...
<didrocks> but at least, it finished its job without me having to restart
<kamstrup> didrocks: if you pull the latest rev I have added a ForceReindex() method you can call over d-feet
<didrocks> kamstrup: ok :) at least, I think we can go with that one, wdyt?
<didrocks> took 5 minutes there to reindex everything
<kamstrup> didrocks: wow!
<kamstrup> didrocks: how many items in your log?
<didrocks> I was untarring Qt at the same time :)
<kamstrup> didrocks: not fair :-)
<didrocks> so not relevant! :-)
<didrocks> kamstrup: ok, can u roll a releaz pleaz? :)
<kamstrup> didrocks: i think the latest rev is good. And with the ForceReindex method on DBus we can more easily debug problems that might pop up
<didrocks> indeed :)
<kamstrup> didrocks: ok, I'll roll it up for you then
<didrocks> excellent, thanks! :)
<kamstrup> didrocks: ok... third time's the charm https://launchpad.net/zeitgeist-extensions/trunk/0.0.10
<didrocks> kamstrup: I prefer when there are only binary digits in a release version :)
<kamstrup> :-)
<didrocks> kamstrup: hum, there will still be some search stuff to tweak (I guess it's timeouting in the home dash)
<didrocks> kamstrup: like, I'm searching "foo" in the file lens and I get a foo file (just one result)
<didrocks> doing the same in the home dash, and I get nothing
<kamstrup> didrocks: is that while it's indexing - or a general problem?
<didrocks> kamstrup: general problem
<kamstrup> didrocks: hmmm, that's a new one... I ownder if it's somehow related to https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/837075
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 837075 in unity "Cannot search for some apps in Dash" [High,Confirmed]
 * kamstrup needs to log out
<didrocks> kamstrup: already on natty, some people mentionned to get unreliable result IIRC (on the french forum for instance)
<kamstrup> didrocks: odd... I use it all the time 100% reliable...
<didrocks> kamstrup: I guess it appears more on "slow" machines/harddrives
<kamstrup> didrocks: probably - which tends to indicate that it's a race condition
<kamstrup> didrocks: and only in files?
<didrocks> yeah, I guess so
<kamstrup> ie not in apps
<didrocks> not sure, I can reproduceably get it in files
<didrocks> do you want me to launch the daemon by hand?
<didrocks> so that I can see if the result is set before/after the timeout
<kamstrup> that'd be nice
<didrocks> kamstrup: will do in a few (10 minutes), just finishing some qteries first :)
<kamstrup> sure
<om26er> kamstrup, since you are back ;) what do you think about this bug 820322
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 820322 in unity (Ubuntu) "searching for the same term the second time in the dash is slow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820322
<om26er> unity or the daemons bug in your opinion ?
<om26er> it seems not be an issue anymore in Oneirc :/
<kamstrup> om26er: I can't seem to reproduce that here...
<didrocks> kamstrup: from what I see it's really because the daemon is slow to answer (it answers after the timeout)
<om26er> kamstrup, me neither false alarm :(
<didrocks> kamstrup: I guess it's worse when doing the same search in all lens in parallel
<kamstrup> om26er: but generally I'd say a Unity issue, as in most cases the daemons should onlyt get *faster* on the second query as the caches are warm
<njpatel> om26er, I fixed it last week I believe
<om26er> kamstrup, something certainly changed in the dash which made it little better.
<njpatel> i was doing something silly...let's not talk about it :)
<om26er> and now we know who fixed it ;-)
<kamstrup> :-)
<njpatel> kamstrup, did we learn about threads today? ;D
<kamstrup> njpatel: watch out - or your life will be hanging by a thread...
<kamstrup> ;-)
<htorque> oh, the search result order has been fixed. thanks, i was sick of opening "xchat.png". :P
<njpatel> kamstrup, hehe
<om26er> njpatel, in dash applications are not given the higher priority in the result
<kamstrup> didrocks: you're not depending on specific bzr branches for releases of dee, right? I want to split trunk into a stable 0.5 series and a 0.6 all-things-go series
<htorque> om26er: they do? that's what i was talking about.
<njpatel> I manage to "fix" my duplicated music issue yesterday by accidentally deleting 3/4 of my music :/
<njpatel> om26er, 'tis a bug, please file against 4.14.0 and assign to me
<om26er> htorque, yes i search empathy and got to gwibber results
<didrocks> kamstrup: no, it's ok, you can do the split :)
<njpatel> htorque, om26er it's random
<kamstrup> \o/ rock and roll
<htorque> njpatel: oh, in that case i take back the 'thanks' :P
<njpatel> :)
<om26er> eww
<om26er> smspillaz, this branch is causing some serious problems https://code.launchpad.net/+branch/~smspillaz/unity/unity.fix_838062
<om26er> combined with https://code.launchpad.net/~smspillaz/unity/unity.fix_output_bug/+merge/73752
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 73752 in Bazaar "Bzr needs a simple way to prevent revision history changing order on shared branches" [Low,Fix released]
<kamstrup> njpatel: ! one can no longer type a URL into the Dash? I did that just last week...
<njpatel> kamstrup, what the hell? the dash just crashed when I typed in htt
<njpatel> kamstrup, is that the issue you had?
<kamstrup> njpatel: not exactly. I just expect example.org to give me one hit which launches the url
<njpatel> kamstrup, we're sending stuff out to the lenses, maybe I broke something there? (it was in files scope, right? I thought that part of the code was fine :/)
<kamstrup> njpatel: I can't recall exactly where that code was - but yeah, it was a simple regex...
<kamstrup> njpatel: hmmm... also seems my files lens has stopped responding
<njpatel> kamstrup, definitely in files lens, but first I'll take a quick look at why this crashed
<njpatel> kamstrup, http://www.google.com works
<njpatel> www.google.com works too
<njpatel> kamstrup, so, yeah, definitely hang in files place is the issue
<roignac> guys, did anybody had experience of creating lenses using python and libunity-4.0?
<smspillaz> om26er: yeah, I'm aware. these problems are complicated though, give me some time
<om26er> didrocks, Hi is there a way to override gpu blacklist?
<didrocks> om26er: indeed, there is one
 * didrocks doesn't remember the variable he added :)
<om26er> haha
<didrocks> om26er: one sec :)
<om26er> didrocks, any where i should look?
<om26er> ok..
<didrocks> om26er: just set UNITY_FORCE_START to something :)
<didrocks> export UNITY_FORCE_START=1
<om26er> didrocks, thank you
<didrocks> yw ;)
<greyback> mardy: hey I'm Gerry. I was looking at the wallpaper bug, and can (like you) only find nautilus to blame.
<mardy> greyback: yep. I also tried with all the unity-components not running, and it still happens
<greyback> mardy: I must check to see if it happens with Unity.
<didrocks> mardy: FYI, I uploaded the metacity change
<didrocks> mardy: thanks :)
<mardy> didrocks: thanks to you! BTW, I also submitted the patch upstream (as a bug), so you might have to remove it from debian/patches/ if it ever gets accepted
<didrocks> mardy: sure, the usual business :) try to ping marmanel to ensure he can have a look
<didrocks> mardy: he's sick right now apparently
<mardy> didrocks: ok, I'll ping him at regular intervals :-)
<AlanBell> roignac: I think the gwibber lens is in python
<roignac> well, the previous version did
<roignac> now they are ported to vala
<AlanBell> gah, OK I was looking at their packaging
<AlanBell> vala makes my head spin
<AlanBell> not the language itself, just the c files it makes and compiler errors that report against the c files rather than the vala files
<njpatel> AlanBell, it's actually way better than it used to be but, yes, sometimes you just want to kill someone
<AlanBell> I would be interested in porting my appmenu lens to python because I think it is overcomplicated in vala
<njpatel> preferably a vala dev
<njpatel> appmenu lens?
<njpatel> do tell
<roignac> i'm actually pretty happy with python
<roignac> but libunity-4.0 bindings just don't allow me to set filters for a lens
<AlanBell> I took the applications lens and ripped out the zeitgeist stuff and the software centre suggestions and the filters and made it just show applications categorised by category
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/appmenu.ogv
<AlanBell> so now I can find and run applications using unity \o/
<roignac> more info here - https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libunity/+question/169894 - I'd be pretty happy to solve this
<lucazade> AlanBell is that categorized Unity dash someway official?
<njpatel> AlanBell, lol, nice
<njpatel> AlanBell, the filters aren't helping?
<njpatel> (in 11.10)
<AlanBell> lucazade: nope, it was just me ripping out stuff until I could use it!
<AlanBell> the filters take up half the dash
<lucazade> AlanBell, thanks.. i was thinking to the same layout for the dash
<AlanBell> so I had a dash with three lines of icons, top being zeitgeist recently used stuff, bottom being adverts of random stuff from software centre right hand side being the filters, so half of the middle line was three of the applications I had installed
<Kaleo> hey didrocks, got a minute?
<Kaleo> didrocks: mardy, greyback and I are looking at some visual glitches that happen during session login; I found 4 of them so far
<AlanBell> code is here https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+junk/appmenu-lens
<jcastro> heya didrocks
<AlanBell> jcastro suggested I package it for extras, but I have no idea how to do that
<didrocks> hey jcastro
<jcastro> didrocks: doing anything?
 * jcastro tries to trap didrocks 
<jcastro> so I was looking at: https://launchpad.net/unity/+patches
<jcastro> because why not ....
<didrocks> jcastro: not stopping since this morning :/
<didrocks> pinging machine this week
<jcastro> ah ok
<jcastro> I can bother someone else
<didrocks> jcastro: likeâ¦ dx? ;-)
<jcastro> yeah, well I was just wondering if a patch gets accepted into ubuntu why it remains open in the upstream project
<jcastro> but I'll figure it out
<jcastro> I think it's just an LPism
<didrocks> jcastro: let me have a look
<didrocks> (quick one ;))
<jcastro> I think if people are just attaching patches then I can have someone grab them and properly propose them
<didrocks> jcastro: no patch is in ubuntu, I just closed the cjk one
<Kaleo> didrocks: the one that I think you should have a look at is https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/839610 because I suspect 02_additional_marge_for_unity.patch patch to Nautilus might be the culprit
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 839610 in unity-2d "Background wallpaper briefly appears shifted horizontally by around 15 pixels on startup" [Medium,Confirmed]
<AlanBell> njpatel: could the main applications lens be made to be uncluttered and categorised?
<lucazade> Kaleo, I believe bug 804435 is a dup of that wallpaper bug
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 804435 in unity-2d "Wallpaper is loaded twice with different alignment by gnome-session and nautilus (Oneiric)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804435
<njpatel> AlanBell, have you tried out 11.10 (sorry if you've answered)
<AlanBell> njpatel: this is using 11.10
<njpatel> AlanBell, allows you to filter per-category pretty easily
<Kaleo> lucazade: no, I don't think so; when I deactivate gnome-session's wallpaper it still occurs
<AlanBell> yes, the filters kind of wokr
<njpatel> AlanBell, ah, then no, main apps lens are hard-coded in the lens
<didrocks> Kaleo: the patch only touches the icon
<lucazade> Kaleo, ok :)
<didrocks> Kaleo: not the wallpaper
<AlanBell> njpatel: but the filters use up half the room in the dash
<Kaleo> didrocks: ok
<Kaleo> lucazade: I just added clearer steps to reproduce
<AlanBell> if there was an option to turn off the zeitgeist suggestions (they are not too bad) and the software centre stuff (really dislike that) then I would be fine with it
<didrocks> Kaleo: it's really some separated process, I can have a look next week to confirm anyway
<Kaleo> didrocks: we have 4 different bugs that hinder the visual beauty of the login process
<njpatel> interesting
<didrocks> Kaleo: indeed, in particular, the one making everything grey
<Kaleo> didrocks: 2-3 of them affecting both unity-2d and unity
<kenvandine> haha... yesterdays unity release has broken the horizontal renderer again and unity-2d fixed it's horizontal renderer
<Kaleo> kenvandine: do you like it?
<Kaleo> kenvandine: (the u2d's one I mean)
<kenvandine> Kaleo, of course :)
<Kaleo> kenvandine: great, let us know if anything's wrong with it
<davidcalle> Kaleo, the grey text looks a lot better than 3D
<kenvandine> will do
<Kaleo> davidcalle: cool
<didrocks> jcastro: ok, I'm a little bit more in a quiet time right now, do you need me for anything? :)
<didrocks> Kaleo: as well ^
<Kaleo> didrocks: yes :)
<Kaleo> didrocks: me me me me :)
<jcastro> didrocks: just wondering if it's worth going through all the bugs with patches
<jcastro> and see if there's any low hanging fruit
<didrocks> jcastro: I guess that someone on dx should do it, the list is not that long :)
 * jcastro nods
<jcastro> Kaleo: welcome back!
<Kaleo> jcastro: :)
<Kaleo> jcastro: you mean kamstrup no?
<jcastro> oh right
<jcastro> but also, hi to you!
<ronoc> kenvandine, -> https://launchpad.net/indicator-session/+milestone/0.3.4
<ronoc> 0.3.4.2
<ronoc> should fix the apt menuitem weirdness
<kenvandine> ronoc, i got it
<kenvandine> any bug associated with it?
<ronoc> kenvandine, yep
 * ronoc finds bug no
<ronoc> kenvandine, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-session/+bug/831650
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 831650 in indicator-session (Ubuntu) "indicator-session states 'software up-to-date' although there're updates available" [Undecided,New]
<kenvandine> thx
<jono> gord, if I remember right, did you write the code that speeds up the search and presentation of items in the dash?
<jono> I seem to remember it was you
<jono> it is rocking because the dash feels really zippy now :-)
<gord> jono, not search but yeah presentation, anything drawing related really
<jono> great work!
<gord> jono, still only done half the performance speedups :)
<jono> seriously?
<gord> more to come next week
<jono> so it is going to get faster?
<jono> rocking!
<jcastro> ~15 minutes until AMA
<jcastro> I started a hangout if you guys wanna prep
<jono> jcastro, where does it take place, the AMA?
<jcastro> reddit,com/r/Ubuntu
<njpatel> jcastro, I'll probably join in in around an hour or so, once i get back home
<jcastro> njpatel: sweeeeeeeeet.
<jcastro> we're now answering questions about Unity on reddit! http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/k2nvl/we_are_the_ubuntu_unity_development_team_we_3/
<jono> jcastro, posted to FB too, jcastro
<lamalex> jono, fixing your music lens bugs :)
<jono> lamalex, you, rock, pal!
<jcastro> lamalex: you already have a music lens question
<jcastro> jono: ta for that, I got g+ covered too
<lamalex> far out
<jcastro> lamalex: and now a followup
<jcastro> wow, this got popular fast!
<lamalex> yah cuz unity da coolest
<jono> btw, are you folks aware the files lens is not displaying accurately filtered results?
<jono> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/839807
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 839807 in unity (Ubuntu) "Files lens results filter produces inaccacurate results" [Undecided,New]
<jono> RAOF, around?
<AlanBell> is there a problem with lenses where a category that gets expanded does not quite show the last row of icons?
<davidcalle> kenvandine, hi
#ayatana 2011-09-03
<ach1m> smspillaz, is there a chance that you could have a look at this bug â https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/770155
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 770155 in compiz (Ubuntu) "window jumps partly to another workspace" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<smspillaz> ach1m: sure, but not right now
<smspillaz> ach1m: assign it to me if you want me to look at it, I'm going to be drawing up bug hit lists next week
<ach1m> smspillaz, okay, I would be happy if this could be fixed for the next LTS :-)
<ach1m> smspillaz, as it seems I can't assign you, but you can assign yourself to it, right?
<ach1m> I think I have no permission to change the assignment.
<ach1m> smspillaz, thx
<andyrock> AlanBell, hi
<AlanBell> hi
<abandersnatch> So, will we get a list of apps in the next ubuntu update?
<Andy80> Trevinho: hey!
<abandersnatch> I'm going to probably say no
<Trevinho> Hi Andy80
<abandersnatch> im told you can run multiple instances of an application in ocelot. However, you do not have a proper menu
<abandersnatch> Stop Trying To Copy The Iphone
<abandersnatch> it does not work on desktops and it just looks cheap and crappy and it makes finding applications a hassle and a half
<abandersnatch> no one, absolutely no one but the most self deluded individual in the world thinks this is a google idea
<abandersnatch> its like running Android x86 on a desktop
<abandersnatch> try it, its crappy. Because lists of icons do not work on a desktop. Even Google has said this. STOP DOING THIS!
<htorque> hm, i need to 'make' unity two times, first time it fails like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/681300/
<ephan> htorque, and it works the second time? Odd
<htorque> ephan: yes, compiles fine the second time
<Andy80> I'm trying to compile Unity-2d on Oneiric. Executing "cmake ." I get this error: package 'indicator' not found. Should not "sudo apt-get build-dep unity-2d" resolve all the deps?
<Andy80> how can I disable the Unity-2d automatica restart?
<Andy80> I've followed the instructions here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity2D
<Andy80> but it doesn't work
<Andy80> I need to disable it and kill it
<fvalverd> Hi !
<fvalverd> I wonder if someone knows how to change the gnome-terminal transparency level on unity
<htorque> Andy80: if i kill panel and launcher at the same time it doesn't restart here ('killall unity-2d-launcher; killall unity-2d-panel')
<Andy80> htorque: I fixed it killing with kill -9, thanks anyway :)
#ayatana 2011-09-04
<sbte> jcastro, the UbuntuBugControl wiki says I need to ask you if I can get access to the private bugs reported for emesene?
<jcastro> sbte: I usually give bug control to the upstream authors
<jcastro> I am not sure about the private bugs though
<jcastro> I don't know how those get sorted.
<sbte> jcastro, that's in bug control right?
<jcastro> I think that's the "security contact" field
<ephan> Speaking of bugs, doesn't bug 840871 need design?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 840871 in unity (Ubuntu) "dash doesn't show item using all space" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840871
<sbte> jcastro, could I still get bug control then?
<jcastro> sure I just need you to sign the CoC
<jcastro> and then a link to some of your work upstream or something so I am sure you're not just a random guy off the street. :)
<sbte> jcastro, signing the CCA is not enough?
<jcastro> what's the CCA?
<sbte> Canonical Contributor Agreement
<jcastro> oh no, that's not related
<sbte> jcastro, ok
<jcastro> but I see you're on the emesene team already so you just need to check the one box, let me find where it is
<jcastro> https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.1/
<jcastro> and then https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.1/+sign to sign it
<sbte> jcastro, yep, I'm syncing my key now
<jcastro> rock and roll
<ephan> Am I supposed to be able to edit bug reports? As in, edit what the reporter originally said?
<ephan> It seems like I can, but I see no reason for it, though.
<sbte> jcastro, done
<sbte> jcastro, I have access to the private bugs too now
<sbte> thanks for adding me
<jcastro> sbte: oh great, looks like it all worked out, awesome
<Andy80> hi jcastro :)
<ball> Hello, I like pie.
#ayatana 2016-09-02
<Lugsole> Hello
<Lugsole> Any one on?
