#ubuntu-phone 2011-11-28
<farrukhjon> hi guys!
<mika_> morning morning
#ubuntu-phone 2011-11-29
 * imnichol is away: I'm busy
 * imnichol is back (gone 00:03:16)
#ubuntu-phone 2011-12-01
 * imnichol is away: Away
 * imnichol is back (gone 00:24:23)
 * imnichol is away: I'm busy
 * imnichol is back (gone 00:00:41)
#ubuntu-phone 2011-12-02
<AlanBell> hi all, what is the aspect ratio and screen resolution of the phone you are targetting?
<imnichol> And we're back
<MrChrisDruif> Sup Ian?
<imnichol> Hahah
<imnichol> Is your name actually Chris by the way?
<MrChrisDruif> Yup, Druif is my last name even =)
<imnichol> Trustworthy sort of fellow
<imnichol> Using your real name on the internet
<MrChrisDruif> Yup, it's for a good cause, isn't it?
<imnichol> I'd say so
<imnichol> It's been my assumption that the UPhone project would require Canonical to actually develop hardware
<imnichol> Thoughts?
<MrChrisDruif> Well, not necessarily..
<imnichol> I think that as we've seen from Android/IOS, being able to present a solid device is critical if you want adoption
<MrChrisDruif> Seeing Android can run on current hardware, we should be able to do the same
<imnichol> Yes
<imnichol> I'm just worried about the tendency for 3rd parties to mess with stock android, and they invariably make it worse
<MrChrisDruif> Well, it's a bit the same like TV, and Tablet even. We should DEFINITIVELY consider our own hardware, but it should also to switch (say) Android for Ubuntu
<imnichol> You mean allow other people to install Ubuntu on their tablets/phones if they want?
<MrChrisDruif> Yup =)
<imnichol> Cool
<MrChrisDruif> Just like "Windows" PC running Ubuntu, it should be the same for phones
<imnichol> I know my excitement for these projects rests on the ability for me to go out and buy an "Ubuntu" device sold by Canonical, and know that they'll play nicely together and I have someone to turn to if they get broken in some way
<imnichol> I agree that even if it's not "officially supported" to install Ubuntu on your galaxy tab or whatever, we definitely want to do as much as possible to make it easy
<MrChrisDruif> That's what I'm talking about
<imnichol> Great
<MrChrisDruif> Please note that, like you, I've got nothing to say in form of decision making concerning anything at all =P
<imnichol> I really wish that Canonical staff would take a more active roll
<MrChrisDruif> But that's what I'd like to see, be able to install Ubuntu on said devices
<MrChrisDruif> Haha, I heard something about them not sure how to "integrate" with the community. They should hear US talking ;-)
<imnichol> hahah
<imnichol> With mobile devices, it's a lot harder for us to make decisions, since they're going to be the ones who (might) be making hardware
<imnichol> Phones are going to be interesting, because I believe there's some issues with the carriers not liking non-official OSs on phones
<MrChrisDruif> I think if we can ensure them that we can still get all the calls through their networks, then they are less warily
<imnichol> True
<MrChrisDruif> It's the hardware manufacturers we'd be more worried about
<imnichol> How so?
<MrChrisDruif> Well, what about warranties when we install on said devices?
<MrChrisDruif> Claims?
<imnichol> Ah yes
<imnichol> That's why I think it's necessary for Canonical to get into the hardware business at least a little
<imnichol> I want assurance that when I'm runing UPhone and the ssd fails, it can get replaced
<imnichol> No questions asked, no charge
<MrChrisDruif> Well...no questions asked? =P
<imnichol> (Unless of course I drop it off a building, I'd be ok with getting charged for that)
<MrChrisDruif> And no charge? Maybe only handling costs for the user?
<imnichol> I mean, what good does Ubuntu on a phone do if you bring it in because the screen is cracked and they're like "Oh man sorry you voided the warranty, we have to charge you full price to replace this"
<MrChrisDruif> Otherwise it would be a complete open faucet in terms of costs =P
<imnichol> I'm speaking broadly here, my point is that it needs to be as hassle free as possible
<MrChrisDruif> Agreed
<imnichol> Now to open a pandoras box if you don't mind:
<MrChrisDruif> I like opening those =)
<imnichol> You made some comment in #ubuntu-tablet about how you don't think Unity will work on phones.  Is that what you think or did I misunderstand you?
<MrChrisDruif> I did? When?
<imnichol> <MrChrisDruif> I'd actually think we might need to do something for desktop, but either gs or unity are good enough for tablet & desktop
<imnichol> <MrChrisDruif> Phones on the other hand ;-)
<MrChrisDruif> Ahh, that
<MrChrisDruif> =)
<MrChrisDruif> What you missed is some bit after that...
<MrChrisDruif> Where I said that for phones we'd atleast need a software stack for making calls with the carriers networks
<imnichol> Wouldn't that be able to just run as an application?
<MrChrisDruif> And indeed, maybe is current Unity not suitable for phones with their small screens
<MrChrisDruif> Add that Unity is more for "broad" screens like laptops and tablets in landscape mode
<MrChrisDruif> But that isn't really a natural position for a phone
<MrChrisDruif> mode=position
<imnichol> I agree that phones are suited to portrait orientation
<imnichol> But I use the original Palm Pre, where webos is almost identical to Unity except that the menu is on the bottom instead of the side
<imnichol> "Where webos's UI is amost identical to Unity"
<imnichol> And it works just fine
<imnichol> I think that the ability of the touch displays to identify where the user is trying to touch is great enough that the size of the icons won't be a huge problem
<imnichol> But if they want to stick with the menubar being on the side of the screen, you're right, that will be an issue
<MrChrisDruif> That is indeed a thought one to decide about by ourselves =P
<MrChrisDruif> Maybe get the two Alan's in?
<imnichol> Do you have a goat?  We should try to summon some of the Canonical engineers to help us
<imnichol> ;)
<MrChrisDruif> Haha
<MrChrisDruif> I was talking about AlanBell & popey
<imnichol> What exactly does popey do at canonical?
<imnichol> We could really use a designer
<MrChrisDruif> That my friend, I don't know =)
<imnichol> I agree, if anyone with more knowledge/ability wants to jump in, it would really rock
<MrChrisDruif> imnichol; how about this channel? #ubuntu-design ?
<imnichol> If you wouldn't mind bringing it up, that would be awesome.  I think you're the better communicator between the two of us
<MrChrisDruif> I am? ='D
<popey> hello
<MrChrisDruif> Hi popey
<popey> imnichol: I'm an Engineering Manager
<popey> I'm not a designer âº
<MrChrisDruif> popey; we're talking in #ubuntu-design atm =)
<popey> cool
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah, if you read the scrollback, you see we've got a design dilemma with the bar
<MrChrisDruif> imnichol; what could be another option is to "force" landscape mode on the phone as well? Just like portrait mode is forced in Android?
<imnichol> Hm
<imnichol> Ya know, I've been thinking about it and I'm wondering if it's not that much of a problem after all
<MrChrisDruif> I just thought of it and I don't think it's really an issue
<imnichol> Because who cares if the bar on the left obscures what's on the screen?
<MrChrisDruif> A lot of mobile apps would come better to their rights in landscape mode even
<imnichol> The only time it will appear at all is if the user is trying to switch to a different application
<imnichol> What do you mean by "come better to their rights"?
<MrChrisDruif> Well, they would be better suited on those screens
<imnichol> Oh ok
<imnichol> I'm looking at my phone as we speak
<MrChrisDruif> Keep in mind, those apps are designed for portrait screens
<MrChrisDruif> Take for example the mail app
<imnichol> And of course this all depends on the size of the phone(My Pre is 100.53 mm (3.958 in) (h) by 59.57 mm (2.345 in) (w)) but I think that a vertical bar would actually be best
<imnichol> Especially if the phone were a little wider than 2.345 inches
<MrChrisDruif> Wide being the long side of the screen?
<imnichol> If you're looking at an iphone that has the home button at the bottom: wide = left to right and tall = top to bottom
<imnichol> Does that clear it up?
<imnichol> ;)
<MrChrisDruif> Yup
<imnichol> I guess it can be better stated as "width" means the distance from the leftmost part of the phone to the rightmost if the phone is being held in portrait mode
<imnichol> That way I don't have to use an Apple example hahah
<MrChrisDruif> Haha, you could also use the Galaxy S's
<MrChrisDruif> S & SII
<imnichol> Ah yes
<imnichol> Unfortunately, I'm not letting myself do any mockups until after finals week
<MrChrisDruif> Haha
<imnichol> I would get too distracted and probably flunk a few of them
<imnichol> MrChrisDruif, what are the benefits of multiple workspaces?
<MrChrisDruif> Well, with swap you can move from one workspace to the other with on them running full-screen apps.
<MrChrisDruif> It's even how I use my desktop =D
<imnichol> Are you talking about not bringing up the menubar to switch between them?
<MrChrisDruif> Optionally
<MrChrisDruif> If you move apps to workspaces, then you flip your screen to them to switch OR call the Unity bar and let IT take you to the correct workspace
<imnichol> I've been assuming that to change between applications, we'll just be calling up the unity bar and then selecting the application icon
<MrChrisDruif> Well, that is of course an option =)
#ubuntu-phone 2011-12-03
<MrChrisDruif> Ow btw, did I mention we should be making storyboards here as well? Easiest way to do so would be with Pencil it seems =)
<dmj726> imnichol: MrChrisDruif: I think that maemo 5/meego might be a good place to look as far as UI for phones as well
<MrChrisDruif> I think if we start to look TOO much to other designs it won't be Unity again
<dmj726> MrChrisDruif: Well, yes, but looking at how others have presented certain functionality is useful I think
<dmj726> the UI in maemo 5 for instance has three layers, widget layer, dashboard (a grid showing all open windows), and application menu.
<MrChrisDruif> dmj726; It's not like I'm limiting you. Please go ahead and make a storyboard for Ubuntu Phone =)
<dmj726> the widget layer (called the home screen has up to four (hackable to more :P) screens for widgets and shortcuts, a bit similar to android in that respect
<dmj726> the dashboard is kind of like Scale plugin in compiz or expose on the Mac.  However there's really nothing else like it in the mobile world
<dmj726> You get a grid view (scrollable if there are more than 12 windows) of live previews of each window open, and you tap the preview to go to that window
<dmj726> in the menu bar, pressing the button in the corner will take you back to the dashboard, where you can tap to go to the application menu, the widget layer, or another window
<dmj726> Anyway, I'll maybe start storyboarding how some of this might fit with the unity paradigm
<imnichol> So, carrier IQ huh?  Lets hope Canonical can keep it off the UPhone
<MrChrisDruif> Carrier IQ? What is that even?
<imnichol> It's a program on IOS and Android(maybe on more phone os's as well) that logs every keystroke on the phone
<imnichol> There's an article about it on /. right now
#ubuntu-phone 2011-12-04
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, who is ready for a blow to the face?
<MrChrisDruif> I woke up, looked at omgubuntu and saw THIS article: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/12/ubuntu-mobile-phone-concepts/
<MrChrisDruif> I don't mind them mocking up stuff (heck, I love it) but why didn't we know about it? =(
<AlanBell> we do now
<AlanBell> more to the point, why didn't they know about the channel/mailing list
<AlanBell> and is there a phone wiki area that is an index of mockups that could link to these designs?
<MrChrisDruif> That was my point exactly
<MrChrisDruif> Originally we used UbuntuPhone's page for the UbuntuTV page, but I was thinking about taking the current design back to UbuntuPhone and even UbuntuTablet if we got that page (or need it for that matter)
<MrChrisDruif> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone
<MrChrisDruif> Anyhow, does anyone object to me changing it more to UbuntuTV's layout?
<MrChrisDruif> Wiki page is updated: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone
<jussi> MrChrisDruif: is it intended that the designs page doesnt point to a real page? or is it just yet to be created?
<MrChrisDruif> To be created, took a small break =)
<MrChrisDruif> Same with meetings page
<MrChrisDruif> jussi; All pages should be up now =)
