#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-11
<jrwren> lucid? upgrade to natty
<rick_h_> heh, yea. I know. I'm all behind the times
<rick_h_> but not setting up a server to natty, I kind of like the 5yr plan
<snap-l> re: UPSes, yeah, my power problems were because I have old wiring coming to the house
<snap-l> and the contacts were really old.
<snap-l> g'night
<rick_h_> 12min until the awesome greg-g interview goes live
<brousch> how long is it?
<rick_h_> about 45min I think
<rick_h_> just finished listening myself
<rick_h_> 46.23
<rick_h_> http://lococast.net/archives/475
<rick_h_> appreciate any RT <3 http://twitter.com/#!/mitechie/status/57413806107799552
<wolfger> I really wish journalists/editors would use an ounce of sense before writing headlines...
<wolfger> "Speed possible factor in deadly motorcycle crash"
<wolfger> No, it's a definite factor. I've never heard of a stationary motorcycle crashing.
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> Actually, the interview is 57:45 (with bumpers)
<snap-l> so, around 56 minutes in total
<brousch> rick_h_: if you want RT love, you gotta leave us 14 unused characters :P
<snap-l> wolfger: No, it's a possibility
<brousch> otherwise i am forced to mangle your messge
<rick_h_> brousch: hmm, only if you do old style RT
<rick_h_> if you just use the normal RT it does it without touching the message
<brousch> whatever hootsuite does
<rick_h_> e.g. from the twitter website or whatever
<snap-l> wolfger: the motorcycle might have crashed into a tree while on the back of a trailer. ;)
<rick_h_> sorry hootsuite does it wrong and sucks
<wolfger> snap-l: at which point, speed is still a factor. :-)
<brousch> ah, i think found a setting for new style
<rick_h_> there you go, ty sir
<brousch> that's better
<snap-l> Sent out a tweet / dent as well
<brousch> i would dent, but i think my only followers on there are people already in this channel
<brousch> d00d, should put it up on diaspora
<snap-l> Yeah, that's a highly effective echo chamber.
<wolfger> ROFL
<wolfger> It's an echo-y chamber alright
<brousch> ones of people will see my message there
<wolfger> The Japanese have a word for "cell phone decorated with beads".... <shudder>
<rick_h_> bedazzle?
<brousch> rick_h_: isn't that for clothes?
<brousch> or has it branched out since middle school?
<wolfger> has it branched out???
<brousch> i'm just glad i had a boy so i don't have to deal with it
 * wolfger tell brousch *not* to Google "vajazzled", since he's obviously lived a sheltered life
<brousch> my ignorance stems from my lack of pcon attendance
<wolfger> well I hope you rectify that some day
<rick_h_> snap-l: looks like I'm missing a lot of stuff: http://linuxoutlaws.com/podcast/200
<brousch> geez
<snap-l> rick_h_: That's someone who does studio recordings for a living. :)
<snap-l> Or at least more than just a hobby.
<snap-l> But yeah, golf. ;)
<rick_h_> naw, all that berringer stuff, yuck
<snap-l> I do however take issue with their show notes
<rick_h_> and honestly, never been impressed with their sound
<snap-l> I don't think anyone can listen to The Linux Link Tech Show
<rick_h_> though good to know that's how they ustream and such as I've been looking at that
<snap-l> Honestly, I'm a "get the sound into the computer as quickly and efficiently as possible"
<snap-l> I can do wonders with it before it even hits the drive
<snap-l> all of this pre-processing makes me nervous
<snap-l> er, I mean, I can do wonders with it when it hits the drive
<snap-l> after
<snap-l> gah, clarity of thought elusive.
<tjagoda> lol'
<tjagoda> Its the heat burst from yesterday
<tjagoda> I am in the same boat.
<tjagoda> I never lived in a two-level home before
<tjagoda> I think I may embark on an epic project of zoned temperature controls.
<rick_h_> tjagoda: yea, two stories is awful since upstairs is always so hot
<rick_h_> and downstairs is cool, but doesn't tend to be bedroom space
<snap-l> Well, that and we had the window open last night
<snap-l> so all through the night I was waiting for the rain to come in
<tjagoda> I found a small fan
<snap-l> thought JoDee might have stirred during the thunderstorm since she's the light sleeper, bot to no avail
<tjagoda> which sits in place of the register cover
<tjagoda> and is designed to increase the flow of air up the ducts to your upper floor
<snap-l> Yes, I am a rat-bastard that will wait for my wife to close the window. ;)
<tjagoda> I may purchase and see if it makes any impact
<rick_h_> heh, yea we didn't get real rain to close until around 3 or 4 am
<tjagoda> Yeah
<rick_h_> I have a few vornado fans I use all year round
<rick_h_> <3
<rick_h_> in the winter put behind a radiator heater (electric) to help with the basement rooms
<rick_h_> and in the summer, to help the whole house fan move air through the house/circulate the cold air from the AC
<tjagoda> I already have central air
<tjagoda> so with the proper application of solder and servo I could totally make a zoned system
<tjagoda> Which hopefully would not burst into flames =P
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> i have just learned which vents to open and close during which season
<tjagoda> I psuedo do that
<brousch> quad level home
<tjagoda> Shut off the heat vents to my office in the winter since the PC heats it anyway
<wolfger> tjagoda needs a better pc
<tjagoda> wolfger: my PC generates so much heat because it is high performance
<tjagoda> Well
<tjagoda> it was a couple years ago
<tjagoda> Dual Radeon HD4870's make most of the head
<tjagoda> I have a Phenom II but I have that on liquid cooling
<tjagoda> Hrm
<tjagoda> This is an interesting one
<tjagoda> laptop got a new battery
<tjagoda> will run on the battery fine
<tjagoda> but it will not boot unless plugged into the wall
<tjagoda> Undervoltage battery?
<snap-l>   MB Temperature:    +54.0Â°C  (high = +45.0Â°C, crit = +95.0Â°C)
<snap-l> CPU Temperature:  +109.4Â°F  (high = +149.0Â°F, crit = +203.0Â°F)
<snap-l> MB Temperature:   +129.2Â°F  (high = +113.0Â°F, crit = +203.0Â°F)
<snap-l> That's my machine
<snap-l> tjagoda: May need to be fully charged?
<tjagoda> It is
<tjagoda> It was a replacement battery
<tjagoda> as the old one was old and no longer held charge
<tjagoda> Basically, you get the: push power button -> Battery indicator blinks amber
<tjagoda> which to me would indicate battery fault
<tjagoda> yet it still runs like normal when its booted on power, then detached from power and run on battery
<_stink_> shouldn't there be a spike in power draw on boot?
<_stink_> id' be worried the battery isn't good.
<_stink_> even if it can maintain a system already running.
<tjagoda> I could probably just get CDW to RMA me a new battery
<_stink_> that'd be my approach.
<rick_h_> j+1
<rick_h_> eeer, just +1
<krondor> woot #xoom guys just got SD card working, stupid moto.
<tjagoda> Hows everybody else's stability on Unity, btw?
<snap-l> I'm not using it as a primary environment
<snap-l> but overall it's OK
<tjagoda> I discovered that walking away from my laptop for a few hours results in me coming back to it, frozen, in mid screensaver
<tjagoda> 100% of the time
<tjagoda> I use it gingerly
<tjagoda> in fear that it will soon crash
<tjagoda> I should switch back into Gnome classic and see if performance is more stable
<wolfger> Anybody have any experience with or opinion on PyCamp?
<rick_h_> nope
<snap-l> none here
<snap-l> jcastro: Where'd you guys go for the dino exhibit?
<jrwren> can someone on identica reply to this and tell him "no it doesn't" http://identi.ca/notice/67394509
<snap-l> jrwren: The several byte header is uncompressed
<snap-l> though the @G limit is bullshit
<snap-l> 2G
<snap-l> There was a patch for certain OSes for >4GB
<jcastro> snap-l: U of M paleontology museum
<snap-l> Ah, cool
<greg-g> rick_h_: / snap-l hey, uh, both DBO's and my interviews are labelled "episode 15" in the blog post title
<rick_h_> oops
<snap-l> Blame rick_h_
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h_> copy/paste at the worst
<rick_h_> yea, my fault
<DBO> im the real episode 15
<greg-g> will the real episode 15 please stand up
<DBO> all the other episode 15's are just imitating
<rick_h_> updated, thanks for the heads up
<greg-g> no worries
<rick_h_> what I get for working on crap right before bed
<rick_h_> ugh, crazy weekend
<greg-g> I bet
<DBO> Im starting to think the entire world was on overdrive this weekend
<rick_h_> and this is why we label .mp3 files by date vs episode number
<rick_h_> DBO: heh, yea though nice when you get a lot done over a weekend
<DBO> 14 bugs closed in a weekend
<DBO> Im happy with myself
<greg-g> I was on overdrive last week, you should see my status update for work, and that was with a day off to fly to SF for all of 15 hours of feet on the ground
<_stink_> i think it's spring motivation.
<snap-l> yeah, yesterday we went outside and started doing yardwork
<krondor> the weather is making it really hard to focus on this documentation, god I hate doc.
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> man, this sucks. Review time has hit and I'm supposed to peer review people I did one project with.
<rick_h_> i hated that project, it sucked, how do I know if it's them or the project?
<snap-l> rick_h_: You don't. :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: wheeee
<rick_h_> how vague can I word these answers so as to remain anon and really not rate anything in particular
<snap-l> "I'm not sure whether to blame the monkeys or the zoo-keeper for the amount of shit that was in the project cage".
<Blazeix> "Bob is an achiever in the field of accomplishment."
<rick_h_> thank you "meets expectations" drop down
<rick_h_> "Yep, he met expectations by taking care of xxx and yyy"...
<rick_h_> not checked for length so good so far
<jrwren> snap-l: there is no limit for gzip... at least not the gnu version.
<jrwren> cat uncompressed | gzip > compressed   # there is no limit here, its unpossible.
<wolfger> the ambiguity of "meets expectations" is astounding
<snap-l> It's the ultimate weasel phrase.
<rick_h_> well, there's hints there for you
<snap-l> jrwren: There was at one time on certain OSes
<snap-l> 1.2.4
<snap-l> but the analysis that the person made is bogus
<jrwren> right.
<snap-l> I <3 calls that go completely off the rails.
<snap-l> yay, a request for a status report
<snap-l> Otherwise known as the 1 hour you'll never get back reporting the 7 hours fretting over what to put in the status report.
<snap-l> rick_h_: 15:02 < jono_> snap-l, nice work on the lococast :-)
<rick_h_> nice
<rick_h_> on which part?
<rick_h_> or just in general?
<snap-l> Not sure
<rick_h_> wondering if he checked out greg or DBO or what
<snap-l> Told him to thank you as well
<rick_h_> ah, nice
<rick_h_> well cool, I think we're on track. We kept saying a year and I looked it up, 6/21 is one year
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> train kept-a-rollin' all night long
<rick_h_> snap-l: so greg-g's interview
<snap-l> yes?
<rick_h_> snap-l: that's what he was checking out that prompted the comment
<rick_h_> sorry, back to jono
<snap-l> Ah, OK.
<snap-l> Well, greg-g is interesting to talk  to anyway. ;)
<snap-l> and greg-g is _so dreamy_
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> it's the beard
<snap-l> I'm installing Python under Windows
<snap-l> fear me
<rick_h_> there's a disturbance in the force
 * greg-g blushes
<greg-g> snap-l: where did jono say that? PM?
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea
<brousch> snap-l: it's really quite nice. windows becomes 100x more useful afterwards
<snap-l> greg-g: and in the severed fifth channel
<snap-l> though not with a link to the direct eposide
<snap-l> episode, even
<greg-g> cool
<greg-g> sad that he hasn't said anything to me ;)
<greg-g> (he == jono)
<snap-l> Not sure if the network is the problem, but boy is this miserable.
<rick_h_> lol, he knows where the true great work was done, snap-l then me, and then the talent :P
<rick_h_> and only came to me because snap-l said to tell me
<snap-l> Yeah, it's because I'm fantastic. :)
<rick_h_> well, he's we know you have your total OMC fame
<rick_h_> bah
<rick_h_> that came out a bit twisted
<snap-l> skippy we damn know
<snap-l> Does windows seriously not explode eggs?
<greg-g> lol
<snap-l> I hate corporate proxies
<krondor> snap-l: ++ (or wait +1 is the new coolness right?)
<_stink_> is it?
<snap-l> Since google is so in to Python, I'd think they'd use reaction = reaction + 1
<snap-l> [Like]
<snap-l> [fuck facebook]
<jrwren> i don't like broken eggs.
<snap-l> Hurray for meetings
<rick_h_> yay?
<snap-l> stil in one
<rick_h_> oh
<brousch> must â¦ resist â¦ troll â¦ post
<brousch> "A client wants me to convert their asp/mssql webapp to php/mysql."
<rick_h_> run!
<brousch> it's from the grlug list
<brousch> I'm not sure that's really an improvement
<Blazeix> brousch++ for using actual ellipses
<brousch> adium did it for me
<brousch> i did three periods
<Blazeix> well fine. I revoke my ++ and target it at adium.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-12
<jrwren> â¦
<snap-l> Good eeeevening
<jjesse> yes it is
<jjesse> 8:44 pm
<jjesse> doh
<jjesse> wrong channel
<_stink_> when i was a kid, 8:44pm was snacktime before bed
<_stink_> my brother at like age 8 would go push the buttons on the microwave to make it say 8:44
<_stink_> when it was 7pm
<jjesse> hahaha
<_stink_> rotten kid
<jjesse> mmmm snack time
<greg-g> _stink_: you're brother is awesome
<_stink_> clever, at least.
<greg-g> g'morning
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> greg-g: any wikimedia news?
<greg-g> not yet, I'll find out "early this week" which means it better be today :)
<brousch> tjagoda: Show all windows open in Unity? I think jcastro covered that in his demo video
<rick_h_> greg-g: awesome
<tjagoda> brousch: Where is this video?
<brousch> http://castrojo.blip.tv/file/4997614/
<tjagoda> So many hard lockups with 11.04
<tjagoda> =(
<brousch> really?
<wolfger> wifi back to crapping out every 3 minutes in 11.04 :-(
<wolfger> and occasionally hard locking when I modprobe it back
<tjagoda> I have no clue why it hardlocks
<tjagoda> I'll just walk away
<tjagoda> come back to a frozen screensaver
<tjagoda> =(
<snap-l> tjagoda: Maybe your machine has crap video drivers?
<brousch> is it one of those fancy 3d screensavers?
<brousch> i always use blank screen
<snap-l> Yeah, me too.
<tjagoda> My machine is a system76
<tjagoda> It does not have crap video drivers
<tjagoda> =(
<tjagoda> Pretty sure its intel anyway
<snap-l> It has Intel, right?
<snap-l> So, yes it does. :)
<tjagoda> Dude
<tjagoda> I have had it since 2009
<tjagoda> You know how many lockups I had?
<tjagoda> 0
<tjagoda> Big fat 0
<tjagoda> Never even crashed to login until Unity
<snap-l> You're not trying hard enough
<tjagoda> thing was rock freaking solid
<snap-l> See? Unity has unlocked the potential of your laptop
<snap-l> The potential for locking up
<snap-l> it's in every machine
<tjagoda> ...
<tjagoda> I hate you so much
<tjagoda> =P
<tjagoda> Perhaps when system76 catches up to 11.04 and releases an updated system76-driver it will improve
<krondor> hmm http://ubuntu-releases.eecs.wsu.edu/natty/ seems down
<tjagoda> It resolved here
<tjagoda> And I am able to grab the iso
<tjagoda> Your DNS has a failwhale
<tjagoda> ?
<rick_h_> damn work for their IE only freaking review site working...ugh
<rick_h_> and people that force caps in their urls deservce to be shot
<rick_h_> that is all...
<krondor> yeah i get connection timed out on uverse but everything else seems good, maybe I'll try google's dns and see
<krondor> my uverse is acting all batty lately anyway
<rick_h_> krondor: yea, was having some issues yesterday as well
<rick_h_> I setup google dns and still having some unhappy bits over the pipes
<tjagoda> Comcast dns was fail a while back
<tjagoda> I like openDNS
<rick_h_> comcast always has DNS issues, that alone made me setup DNS on my colo at first
<tjagoda> 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220 			
<snap-l> Yeah, I use Google DNS
<snap-l> seems to be pretty rock-solid.
<krondor> rick_h_:  it's because uverse knows its end is coming at my house so it has to act up (data caps on the way and alll)
<snap-l> krondor: Funny enough, they (AT&T)just laid some fiber over here, and had someone go door-to-door to let everyone know.
<tjagoda> lol
<snap-l> So there may be more traffic. ;)
<tjagoda> Thats kind of sad
<tjagoda> "PLEASE DONT LEAVE"
<tjagoda> "NEW FIBER LOL!"
<snap-l> I already did
<snap-l> I'm on wowway, and it's nice.
<tjagoda> If wow offered service out here I'd switch in a heartbeat
<tjagoda> Loathe comcast
<krondor> yeah that's how I ended up switching to it, the door to door guys have promos online doesn't.  It was like 300 dollars in visa gift cards plus half off the service for 1 year.
<tjagoda> Anybody run on FiOS?
<tjagoda> Don't they put "no caps" into their advertising?
<snap-l> Comcast is shit
<krondor> I need to look at wow again, heard good things but last I looked they only had like 8 mbps in my area.  I hear it's near 18 now or something...
<snap-l> I only have 8Mbps
<snap-l> though their home page makes me want to puke.
<snap-l> if I go to wowway.com, it redirects me to their portal
<greg-g> geez, I leave for my bikeride in and you all turn into chatty cathys
<tjagoda> Does Fios even run in michigan?
<krondor> tjagoda:  not that I've heard
<tjagoda> ='(
<snap-l> Wow, they have 15down, 2 up
<snap-l> 72.99
<tjagoda> mmmm
<tjagoda> And they don't try and filter your shit and make it difficult to run home servers
<tjagoda> Have a friend who runs an entire exchange server from his basement on wow
<snap-l> add phone, and you only get 8Mbps
<rick_h_> krondor: do you hit the caps? on userver it's some 250gb
<rick_h_> while I'm cranky about the caps in general, I don't think I come up to them
<krondor> that's kind of pricey for that.  Uverse is $60 for 24 down 3 up, but if it's capped I guess what's the point?
<rick_h_> the only other option is to go back to comcast which only has half the speed and ugh cable
<krondor> rick_h_:  they're not active yet in our area but they're coming, I've heard May.  It's 250 GB/month for all plans.
<rick_h_> krondor: right, but I'm not coming up to 250gb/mo
<krondor> you can exceed it 3 times for the life of your account and after the 3rd overage they bill you the excess.
<rick_h_> so still > comcast
<rick_h_> nice
<snap-l> Oh that's brilliant
<krondor> I'm over it most months.  Netflix is a hungry animal.
<rick_h_> yea, we do netflix, but tends to just be a movie/two per week
<rick_h_> not a daily affair
<rick_h_> so where you headed to then?
<rick_h_> do you have more than comcast in the area?
<krondor> wow as well, I'd probably be looking at WoW first and then maybe comcast or comcast business class.
<rick_h_> n0p_: why did you guys cancel wow? I don't recall
<rick_h_> yea, I think jcastro has the comcast business class and loves it
<n0p_> primarily because of the move
<rick_h_> gotcha
<n0p_> was sorta wanting to, just due to the overall expense
<n0p_> but was satisfied with their service overall
<snap-l> Did you get the cable TV stuff?
<n0p_> oh, yeah, was just TV
<n0p_> stuck with comcast for Internet
<snap-l> Yeah, TV is expensive
<n0p_> Wow speeds are slower
<snap-l> I just use them for phone and internet
<n0p_> or at least they were when i was evaluating
<snap-l> They still are
<snap-l> 8Mbps down, 1Mbps up
<snap-l> You can get 15/2, but that's without phone
<snap-l> which leads me to believe they're reserving bandwidth. ;)
<rick_h_> people still have phones?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Land-lines at that.
<n0p_> heh, yeah, broadvoice still
<rick_h_> n0p_: yea, same here
<n0p_> still good for call that consume minutes
<snap-l> Funy enough, for conference calls, I still use Skype. ;)
<snap-l> 1800 calls = free
<n0p_> i cant imagine talking on a real land line again, i am sure the quality would be awesome
<snap-l> I love my land-line
<n0p_> cell and voip phones are not that great imo
<snap-l> Well, my land-line is voip, and it's pretty good
<n0p_> they get the job done, but miss the clarity of a call
<snap-l> compared with what I was using before with DSL / Land Line, it's comparable
<snap-l> and considering that all of the traffic now is VOIP anyway (even on a conventional land line)... :)
<snap-l> BTW: MUG Tonight, folks.
<n0p_> heh, yeah
<rick_h_> man, not going to make another one
<rick_h_> 0-4 this year :(
<snap-l> priorities, man. ;)
<snap-l> Just leave Michael home alone. What's the wors that could happen?
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> Dear Ticketmaster: Someone who bought tickets for Rush might like Bob Seger. They're not likely to enjoy Glee or NKOTB / BSB.
<brousch> sounds like logical associations to me, and i'm sure they have petabytes of data behind their suggestions
<wolfger> snap-l: you didn't see the Rush episode of Glee?
<jrwren> there is a rush episode?
<krondor> and that BSB documentary had them mentioning Rush as a primary musical influence for the producer that actually wrote their songs, oh wait I mean I've never seen a BSB documentary.
<jrwren> what is BSB?
<jrwren> back street boys?
<greg-g> back street's back, ALL RIGHT!
<_stink_> and that's why greg-g is a hit with the ladies.
<jrwren> dismantled lists paula abdul as an influence... sooo....
<greg-g> _stink_: hey, in high school, two years in a row, my buddies and I did full-length dances to BSB songs, 1 song the first year then added another one the second year. The ladies loved it.
<wolfger> Hey, she influenced my teenage years...
<wolfger> now I look at her and say "wtf was I thinking?"
<greg-g> we watched their music video and learned their dance moves. We had a buddy who if it wasn't a preacher's son would have been, well, you know ;)
<jrwren> wolfger: i am guessing that is how it was for dismantled. i've you've never heard 'em, they are hella sweet adn you wouldn't guess paula as influence
<_stink_> greg-g: i have now slotted the high school aged greg-g into a nice little stereotyped box. :)
<jrwren> greg-g: lol
<jrwren> greg-g: cliche
<greg-g> _stink_: awesome
<greg-g> jrwren: :P
<_stink_> greg-g: did you have some kind of mock rock competition thing at which to do those dances?
<greg-g> oh, no, sorry, this was at prom, that was an important part of that story
<_stink_> ahhhh
<_stink_> wow
<greg-g> sorry, multitask.... huh, ohai
<tjagoda> bwahaha
<tjagoda> I just bansihed non-blackberry devices from this workplace
<tjagoda> RIM should thank me.
<greg-g> way to go, jerk
<greg-g> hater of choice
<tjagoda> Not like Android is going to be open much longer anyway ;D
<greg-g> or something
<snap-l> tjagoda: Way to make a monoculture
<brousch> fascist bureaucrat. die in a shredder
<snap-l> I hope Blackberry doesn't have some major bug that paralyzes your infrastructure.
<snap-l> When Ford got nailed witht eh "ILoveYou" virus, my Linux machine was one of the few able to continue working
<tjagoda> Mmmm
<tjagoda> Easily manageable monoculture
<wolfger> Mmmm. Easily destroyable monoculture
<snap-l> Of course, I kept saying "I love you" to the PC support guy. ;)
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> And so are all my windows end nodes
<jrwren> but blackberry SUCKS!!!
<snap-l> Your network looks tasty.
<jrwren> well, it sucks for end users. blackberry from an admin pov is SWEET.
<jrwren> as long as you ahve budget for bb ent server.
<tjagoda> I finally agree with jrwren on something =P
<tjagoda> My e-mail is so secure that the UAE wants to outlaw blackberries
<jrwren> lol.
<tjagoda> SCREW YOUR USER FRIENDLINESS
<jrwren> weren't people protesting there recently?
<jrwren> err, no... that was saudi arabiea.
<tjagoda> Yeah, I think UAE has been placid thus far
<jrwren> didn't the saudi gvment get a special BB deal ?
<tjagoda> They got banned
<tjagoda> but then agreed to the possibility of putting a routing server in saudi arabia
<brousch> you know what's even more secure? not using email at all. cheaper, too
<tjagoda> You know what's even more secure?
<tjagoda> This abacus
<tjagoda> =P
<brousch> i disagree. an abacus would be easier to see from a satellite compared to a calculator screen
<tjagoda> I can put a virus on your calculator
<tjagoda> it runs basic
<tjagoda> you've probably got a monoculture of TI devices
<tjagoda> unless your a freak like snap-l with his HP
<tjagoda> =P
<brousch> we have special-purpose construction calcs actually
<snap-l> tjagoda: You mean my wife's HP
<snap-l> which she loves.
<brousch> my calculator runs android
<snap-l> *sigh*
<snap-l> Banshee 2.0 under Lucid won't be able to support tue U1MS
<snap-l> and Rhythmbox doesn't have an update for the newer, and more stable U1 foo
<tjagoda> What is U1MS?
<snap-l> so I either need to stick with 1.8.1, which is a crashy piece of shit
<snap-l> Ubuntu 1 Music Store
<snap-l> or upgrade to Natty / Maverick
<snap-l> God bless Banshee
<wolfger> or switch to AmazonMP3
<wolfger> :-D
<snap-l> wolfger: Fuck off
 * wolfger removes snap-l's seatbelts
<tjagoda> Seatbelts!
<tjagoda> Trolololol
<tjagoda> You are all trolls
<tjagoda> =P
<greg-g> you didn't know? #ubuntu-us-mi will be renamed #michigan-troll-proving-grounds
<Milyardo> trollface.jpg !!!!!
<krondor> tjagoda: so you've seen the blackberry pwn2own results then right? lol
<Milyardo> snap-l: I'm sure there will be a PPA with banshee+U1MS
<jrwren> there just isn't yet :(
<Milyardo> :(
<snap-l> I doubt it
<jrwren> so go make one.
<snap-l> jrwren: You first. :)
<tjagoda> snap-l should come join us in crashahppy natty
<tjagoda> crashhappy*
<snap-l> I'd like to actually have what I used to have working work again
<snap-l> unfortunately, I can't seem to install anything for Banshee that will get the U1 music store working again
<snap-l> whatever I have is compiled for 1.6.1
<snap-l> (*sigh*)
<jrwren> is the U1 add in open source?
<krondor> main rig now has natty instead of gentoo :)
<wolfger> What's with this * crap in correcting a typo. Doesn't anybody know how to regex anymore?
<Milyardo> jrwren: yeah its just a frontend for libubuntuone
<wolfger> krondor: boo!
<jrwren> I'd go do it, but I don't have a lucid system anymore... i'm all natty
<krondor> wolfger I have a short attention span, so we'll see how long it lasts
<wolfger> if the don't get my wifi working again, I'm ditching Natty for Oneiric
<jrwren> what wifi?
<wolfger> realtek
<jrwren> i've been only intel for so long, its been great.
<wolfger> was busted all to hell, then became functional, now again busted all to hell
<tjagoda> I hope my stability comes back when system76 released the 11.04 version of system76-driver
<snap-l> I love how LTS is pretty much Long Term Suck-it. ;)
<wolfger> LOL
<tjagoda> Yeah
<wolfger> snap-l++
<tjagoda> bad choice for an LTS
<tjagoda> reaaaal bad choice
<wolfger> even if he was rude to me
<tjagoda> to much change
<wolfger> ;-)
<tjagoda> Is 11.10 supposed to have a focus of quality?
<tjagoda> =P
<brousch> 12.04 would be the next lts
<wolfger> I seriously doubt it
<snap-l> Well, seriously, 10.04 is pretty much becoming useless
<brousch> because you can't use the fancy new music store?
<wolfger> we are at Quality Quail -3 (those of us running Natty)
<snap-l> Because stability is no longer supported.
<brousch> i think we have different definitions of useful
<jcastro> snap-l: the definition of "stable" in an LTS is least amount of change as possible
<snap-l> jcastro: Well, I had to upgrade my Ubuntu One to have it stable
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> :-/
<brousch> i have machines i want to sit there for 2, 3, 4 years without mucking around
<snap-l> and that change busted rhythmbox's U1 store
<tjagoda> Rythmwhat?
<jrwren> for servers I've found LTS to be rock solid.
<tjagoda> Whats that?
<wolfger> File a bug on LP. I'm sure they'll get right on that
<snap-l> and now Banshee is going to drop U1 because of dependencies for Lucid
<tjagoda> ;)
<rick_h_> so...the broken bit is relying on u1 :P
<jrwren> as for desktop... i can't understand teh LTS mindset.
<tjagoda> I can
<jcastro> jrwren: I can
<snap-l> jrwren: I don't want shit to break.
<tjagoda> Truth
<tjagoda> Put that shit out on enterprise desktops
<tjagoda> then sleep
<rick_h_> jrwren: my desktop is for deving to servers, why not keep pretty close?
<tjagoda> and do an upgrade cycle in 2 years
<tjagoda> =P
<jrwren> rick_h_: now THAT i understand.  rick_h_ ftw
<rick_h_> lol, right because all the enterprise running XP is upgrading every 2 years
<jcastro> chrome + LTS = the win
<snap-l> jcastro: If you want the message thread, LMK
<jcastro> snap-l: fwd it to me pls.
<tjagoda> rick_h: bad analogy
<tjagoda> windows vista sucked
<jcastro> hey, in other, surprising good news, we fixed that guy's gpodder bug!
<snap-l> jcastro: Forwarded.
<rick_h_> that's ok tjagoda I hear win7 is 2% over XP now yay
<tjagoda> We're rolling to win7 next quarter
<wolfger> Win7 ftw \o/
<brousch> we are running 5 year old winxp desktops here. it sucks
<tjagoda> I wait for SP1 to be well-entrenched
<rick_h_> just like staples is rolling to IE8...oh that's right, they said that last april
<tjagoda> Well
 * rick_h_ hates large corps
<tjagoda> I am not staples
<tjagoda> So screw you
<brousch> my 10.04 lts desktop is bleeding edge compared to the rest of my users
<tjagoda> =P
<rick_h_> I never said tjagoda, I said "enterprises"
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> why be specific when you can be general and use a large brush :)
<wolfger> ...and while we're talking about upgrades... how can I downgrade my phone back off of Froyo? It really rather sucks :-p
<brousch> flash an old rom?
<jcastro> snap-l: oh man, that totally sucks
<jcastro> snap-l: does the amazon store work?
<snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, so essentially I'm fucked for purchasing via U1
<snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, it works, but I'd rather use U1, funny enough
<jcastro> yeah that is funny
<jcastro> I've been waiting for the amazon store
<jcastro> either way, a purchase helps ubuntu
<tjagoda> Does ubuntu make any $$ of the U1MS?
<tjagoda> Ah
<tjagoda> Does it make more off one or the other?
<snap-l> jcastro: Thing is, I don't have to worry about backing up my purchases with U1
<tjagoda> And is Ubuntu still loosing as opposed to making money?  =(
<snap-l> It's the most clever way for my music wants
<tjagoda> http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/04/05/canonical_kills_free_ubuntu_cd_program/
<snap-l> tjagoda: Not news.
<jrwren> that is so last week.
<tjagoda> It is news to I
<tjagoda> Sadness
<tjagoda> I had fond memories of being young and enraged at how long I had to wait for that disk
<tjagoda> because I was on dial-up at home
<tjagoda> =P
<jcastro> locos are fine
<jcastro> we just won't be sending individuals CDs
<jcastro> USB keys are the way to go at locos anyway imo, it's so much faster and less annoying than CD installs
<tjagoda> True
<tjagoda> netbook doesn't even had CDROM anymore
<jrwren> ++
<jrwren> the other day I had wished I had kept or copied one of those keys from you
<jcastro> heh
<jrwren> plus 1G keys are basically free these days.
<jcastro> I have a PXE installer at home
<jrwren> i was at work.
<jcastro> IMO it never made sense to do CDs in the USA and Europe
<jcastro> should have concentrated on the low income countries
<snap-l> ++
<snap-l> though folks in the USA and Europe would have bitched
<jcastro> I mean, it's nice marketing, but do we really need premade  ISOs at our events?
<krondor> wolfger: just move forward to gingerbread
<jcastro> when one of us could have just burned them
<jrwren> but I guess there is an ubuntu server at work that I could turn into a PXE in no time.
<jcastro> jrwren: we're close to finishing cobbler integration
<jcastro> next LTS will be awesome in that regard
<jrwren> sweet.
<jcastro> "cobbler --add whatever-release" or something
<jrwren> plus the CDs are out of date pretty quick.
<jcastro> yeah
<jrwren> i've seen little stacks of old ubuntu lying around lots of places.
<jcastro> it can like autoupdate
<snap-l> I always love it whenever I mention that I use U1 and U1MS.
<snap-l> I feel like the only one who uses this stuff
<rick_h_> snap-l: :)
<brousch> i feel special with my stack of ancient ubuntu CDs. started with warty
<snap-l> (1) Consult Ubuntu Forums for information about portable music players that are supported by Ubuntu. Ubuntu 10.04 LTS now supports iPhone and iPod Touch.
<snap-l> ^ HAH!
<rick_h_> scary that something says "consult ubuntu forums"
<snap-l> a-yep
<tjagoda> snap-l: Do you still fit inside the 2GB, or did you pay out for more?
<snap-l> I spent more $$
<greg-g> snap-l: what the hell suggested "consulting" the forums? it is more like "banging your head against"
<snap-l> https://one.ubuntu.com/music/
<greg-g> not even a link to a specific thread, wow, way to throw people to the wolves with that one. Why didn't they just say "RTFM"?
<snap-l> Consult the Googles
<snap-l> lmgtfy.com
<greg-g> love that site
<gamerchick02> lol @ greg-g
<gamerchick02> a specific thread is a good idea.
<gamerchick02> oh, and listening to the newest lococast! woo!
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: awesome, I think it's a pretty good one myself :)
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> i'll have to pause it, because we're getting lunch.
<snap-l> I'm proud of all of the episodes we've done
<gamerchick02> i've been interrupted three times in listening, and missed a bunch. i love lococast
<gamerchick02> i've been answering email like a boss this morning.
<snap-l> Each one starts off feeling like "what are we going to talk about", and in the end, I feel like we pulled something special out of each one.
<snap-l> gamerchick02: Yeah, today is a productivity day for me
<snap-l> Had 14 follow-up mails. Now, I have 4
<gamerchick02> it's really nice out too
<gamerchick02> nice
<snap-l> Yeah, I think I'm going to move my base of operations to conference room 2
<snap-l> aka: the lving room
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> more comfortable?
<snap-l> More light
<gamerchick02> ah
<gamerchick02> bbiab. lunch
<snap-l> http://www.humblebundle.com/
<snap-l> IT'S ON
<tjagoda> I like the stats there
<tjagoda> Average Windows: $4.37
<tjagoda> Average Mac: $6.93
<tjagoda> Average Linux: $12.24
<tjagoda> And they say there's no money in the linux game market ;)
<snap-l> I gave 'em $20
<rick_h_> you cheap bastarts...oh wait...that big number is us
<snap-l> considering I was going to get the two Shadowground games at some point, it's a no-brainer
<snap-l> those games are awesome.
<rick_h_> snap-l: I'm telling jodee, the groupon of games just sucked you in :P
<snap-l> I don't care.
<snap-l> She knows my hot-buttons.
<tjagoda> snap-l: Does it auto-determine your platform?
<tjagoda> Or do you pick during checkout?
<snap-l> I didn't choose, so I think it's auto-dtermined
<tjagoda> Then I'll wait until I'm home on the Linux machine
<wolfger> Linux users pay more for free games because they have lower expectations :-p
<ColonelPanic001> wolfger ++
<wolfger> The windows guy is like "WTF? This sucks compared to WoW."
<wolfger> or whatever today's hot game is
<wolfger> I really need to get Eve running on Ubuntu... But first I need a wifi that doesn't crap out every 3 minutes
<wolfger> Then I'd only use Win7 on the weekends, when the wife wants to play some DDO
<rick_h_> yay for sucky work network, can't even stream music to the desktop now
<gamerchick02> back.
<gamerchick02> wolfger: he's comparing an indie game to WoW?
<_stink_> a third humble bundle??
<gamerchick02> looks like it.
<wolfger> gamerchick02: I'm saying that's the mentality
<wolfger> Linux gamers are much more appreciative of indy games than Windows gamers are
<_stink_> hot damn.
<gamerchick02> i'm saying that's silly. ;) some expecations are crazy
<gamerchick02> we are!
<gamerchick02> and i like indy stuff on windows too.
<wolfger> Android is pissing me off now
<wolfger> is there any way to stop apps from starting themselves.... over and over... no matter how many times I kill them?!?
<wolfger> I mean, aside from uninstalling the apps, which I am on the verge of doing.
<gamerchick02> i'd just uninstall them and if they ask why, tell them why.
<gamerchick02> sorry about that
<gamerchick02> ok. seriously, fuck you, yahoo: "Sorry, the all-new Yahoo! Mail does not support your browser."
<gamerchick02> that's a load of crap if I've ever seen it. i'm running chrome beta. >_<
<krondor> wolfger: what apps?
<krondor> people still use yahoo mail?  what UAString does chrome beta use anyway?
<tjagoda> wolfger: You play EVE?
<tjagoda> There are a few penguicon network guys who play EVE as well that I corp'ed with for a while
<gamerchick02> krondor: I keep it around for spam crap (like signing up for various things)
<tjagoda> I think you can egt it working under WINE
<wolfger> krondor: well let's see... Since the last time I hit the ATK button, the following apps have restarted without my intervention or consent: AT&T Hot Spots, Mustard, Facebook. But there are more, I routinely see 9 or so apps running that I never started
<wolfger> tjagoda: I am an EVE addict
<tjagoda> Wolfger: I have a battlecruiser
<tjagoda> I think
<tjagoda> Hard to remember, I've been off the rocks for a few months
<wolfger> Well, look me up sometime. (i.e. play again sometime)
<krondor> wolfger: those have services to check for notifications.  That's why they show in your running list.
<wolfger> I've got it installed under WINE, but it goes to the "accept the EULA" screen which is blank and I can't scroll to the bottom of nothing to accept.... :-p
<krondor> wolfger:  do you use a taskkiller?  don't in froyo and up, they're not helpful and make things worse really..
<wolfger> krondor: I'm using ATK, but the damne things keep respawning. More have come back during this conversation: Dropbox, Playmaker, Firefox, Mediahub have also spawned
<tjagoda> Somebody payed $1024 for the humble bundle
<wolfger> There's no excuse for this
<rick_h_> that's so awesome I'm speachless
<tjagoda> I know
<gamerchick02> that is awesome, re paying $1024 for the bundle...
<gamerchick02> wow
<tjagoda> I hope he was on Linux
<tjagoda> he/she
<tjagoda> Looks like a twitter name
<tjagoda> @ExpiredPopsicle
<gamerchick02> lol @ the twitter name.
<_stink_> it would be awesome if we had some warning about these, and we (the loco) could pool together for a huge payment, then share the files.
<_stink_> i guess that would reduce the # for linux, but give us a potential huge payment.
<tjagoda> http://twitter.com/humble
<tjagoda> ExpiredPopsicle is a coder/artists
<tjagoda> artist
<tjagoda> looks like Linux
<tjagoda> whoot
<jjesse> can someone explain to me why i should be excited google docs now does pagination?
<tjagoda> PAGINATION IS FUCKING SWEET
<jjesse> cause every other word process program could do it forever?
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> Basically
<jjesse> so i should b e excited that google docs can do things everyone else can?
<brousch> wolfger: what phone do you have? my boss has a htc somethingorother and has the same problem
<wolfger> brousch: Samsung Captivate
<wolfger> Google shows other people complaining the same since Froyo update
<wolfger> and some folks say the solution is to use built-in task manager instead of ATK, but those people are smoking 7 gram rocks
<_stink_> i just had to look up 'pagination'.
<wolfger> because the built in task manager is trying to tell me I have 0 programs running, despite the fact that I have some programs which I have manually started and left running on purpose :-p
<wolfger> I did get into the settings and kill some services, but not every program I'm having issues with had an associated service
<rick_h_> crap, they've made django loving a class in college now? http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/go9wc/ask_python_why_are_lesspopular_web_frameworks/
<brousch> is 7 grams a big rock or a small rock?
<rick_h_> depends on the type of rock :)
<rick_h_> diamond == big
<brousch> rick_h_: what else is there to love about python?
<rick_h_> brousch: clearly I've been missing out
<wolfger> brousch: I assume 7g is a big rock, from the way Charlie Sheen portrays it
<rick_h_> I promise to reform my ways immediately and throw sqlalchemy, mako, and all to the curb
<brousch> rick_h_: well wolfger mentioned smoking it, so i assume it is some kind of edible rock
<brousch> rick_h_: django and web2py are what make python awesome
<jrwren> they aren't less popular.
<jrwren> we do more django than rails here.
<rick_h_> jrwren: nothing to do with rails
<brousch> jrwren: nice
<rick_h_> it's in the python world
<jrwren> rails people are busy talking about how awesome they are, python people are quietly shipping sweet software.
<rick_h_> django == popular kid vs all the really functional python web frameworks out there
<brousch> chicago has a django group
<jrwren> oh... isee the question now.
<_stink_> wow, rick_h_ got going on django and brousch didn't even have to bait him :P
<jrwren> that is a silly question.
<brousch> 30 people at the meeting
<rick_h_> _stink_: the article was bait
<jrwren> flip that question around... why are tehre so many interesting adn experimental python web framekworks?
<_stink_> hehe
<wolfger> "django" always makes me think "Mr. Bojangles"
<jrwren> well DUH! because "We are finding better ways to develop software."
<brousch> even though i use mostly django, i'm glad there are these other frameworks. people are still thinking about how to solve problems better
<brousch> some of those discoveries eventually make their way into django
<brousch> if you hate rails, you probably aren't going to use ruby. if you hate django, you still have a lot of options for using python
<snap-l> brousch: ++
<wolfger> use perl;
<brousch> are there any webapp frameworks in perl?
<snap-l> brousch: Yes, there are
<snap-l> Mason, iirc
<brousch> my impression is that perl's only purpose is to create open source applications that no one else can understand
<wolfger> brousch: Catalyst
<wolfger> also, apparently, Mojolicious
<wolfger> https://www.socialtext.net/perl5/web_frameworks
<wolfger> there's lots there
<jrwren> what is the perl mvc framework that Randy likes ?
<wolfger> I dunno. Randy who?
<snap-l> Randall Schwartz
<wolfger> CGI::Prototype if Google is to be believed. :-)
<jrwren> noes
<wolfger> No, Google isn't to be believed?
<wolfger> Or no, not Randall Schwartz?
<jrwren> yes randal s.
<jrwren> but not cgi::prototype
<jrwren> I might be thinking of his smalltalk framework he loved, but I swear there was a perl framekwork that he said was similar.
<snap-l> I think it's telling that nobody in our little group knows of any that are all that good
<wolfger> Yes. It's telling that none of us use Perl for web apps. Or at least, not since the 80's when Mason was the shit.
<wolfger> early 90's even
<snap-l> I never even used Mason
<snap-l> coded it all via CGI.pm
<snap-l> That was the shit, and nbody could tell me otherwise. :)
<wolfger> yeah, pretty much.
<wolfger> Mason was "better", but not worth learning for what I was doing.
<snap-l> I never even heard of it until much later.
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> cgi.pm was the bomb.
<jrwren> slashcode is still perl.
<gamerchick02> has anyone heard of losing their mouse pointer on their second monitor? that happened to me a little bit ago, and that's why i disappeared for a minute.
<tjagoda> wtf?
<gamerchick02> to me? indeed.
<gamerchick02> very strange. not sure what was going on there.
<gamerchick02> i logged out and back in and it's fine.
<tjagoda> So it just blinked away
<tjagoda> Sounds like natty.
<tjagoda> =P
<gamerchick02> yeah. was very strange
<gamerchick02> but if i hovered over something, it'd highlight
<gamerchick02> you know how you hover over someone's name in empathy and the hover thing shows? yeah, i was getting that, but no cursor.
<_stink_> i've seen X bugs like that before.
<_stink_> only the logout-login fixes it for what i remember.
<tjagoda> Time for Wayland! ;)
<gamerchick02> i've never had that happen before.
<gamerchick02> oh well, a first time for everything, right?
<greg-g> gamerchick02: now you can feel a part of the club, or something ;)
<gamerchick02> or something is right. heh
<gamerchick02> ok, just happened again. wtf?
<gamerchick02> i'm getting some updates. i'll restart after them and see if my problem goes away.
<snap-l> God, I want to lik this band, but whomever records their music needs to take up another career
<snap-l> http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/87934
<gamerchick02> which band?
<snap-l> Usually a band that has a shit studio album has a better live album
<snap-l> or vice versa
<snap-l> but this band has both
<gamerchick02> oi. bad music or badly recorded?
<snap-l> badly recorded
<gamerchick02> ah
<gamerchick02> ok. logging out and back in. stupid loss of mouse pointer.
<gamerchick02> bbiab
<snap-l> there is no excuse for poorly recorded industrial music. :)
<rick_h_> lol, love my company
<rick_h_> so 'on the ball'
<brousch> they must be. they hired you
<rick_h_> "We think video is the future, so we're going to have a team compitition to make the best video with these flip cams"
<rick_h_> "winning team gets a flip cam for each person on the team!"
 * rick_h_ debates raising hand..."you saw cisco is killing flip right?"
<brousch> that's how they got them so cheap
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> i assume you'll be posting your nerdcore video on youtube
<rick_h_> but of course...with my flip cam...ugh
<rick_h_> first the netbook for christmas bonus and now flip cam compitition
<brousch> i hate video. it's so slow
<brousch> slow to shoot. slow to process. slow to download. slow to watch
<rick_h_> irc-cam?
<brousch> do that video->ascii thing they were doing at the meeting
<snap-l> God, I hate passwords on this one system
<snap-l> It requires 6-8 characters, and at least one special character
<jjesse> isn't that standard?
<snap-l> But apparently the special character that I chose isn't accepted on the login screen
<snap-l> FilterType":15,"ValidChars":"_%!$*","id":"FilteredtxtPassword"
<snap-l> Seriously, if you're going to require at least one special character, you might want to open up the field just a hair
<jrwren> what does meta-a do in irssi?
<_stink_> moves to the next channel with unread messages
<rick_h_> looks like it goes to the next channel
<rick_h_> ooh, even better
<jrwren> why have i never used this before?
<jrwren> now i just need a "to window you just came from" and I'm happy happy
<_stink_> yeah, i can't believe there's nothing that does that.
<Blazeix> weechat has that feature. If you type meta+4, it will go to window 4, and if you hit it again it goes back to the original window
<ColonelPanic001> Blazeix ++
<jrwren> weechat?
<jrwren> irssi 4 life
<Blazeix> If you can get past the stupid name, it's actually quite a nice client :)
<Milyardo> mylife4irssi
<snap-l> Is anyone else going to ignite on Thursday?
<widox> anyone know where to go for the mug meeting tonight?
<snap-l> Sure
<snap-l> Engineering Society of Detroit
<snap-l> 20700 Civic Center Drive
<snap-l> Suite 450
<snap-l> Southfield, MI 48076
<widox> where at inside?
<jrwren> suite 450?
<snap-l> yes
<widox> oh, heh
 * widox can't read
<widox> better question, any heads up on finding the room?
<jrwren> take elevator to 4th floor.
<jrwren> follow sign to 450
<snap-l> Yeah, it's pretty straightforward
<widox> ok, thanks. wasn't sure what the building was like
<Blazeix> watch out for the spike traps
<_stink_> it's like Pitfall
<snap-l> _stink_: Shhh, you'll give away the ending
<_stink_> haha
<widox> har
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-13
<rick_h_> how's MUG?
<rick_h_> guess it's almost done...too late
<Blazeix> rick_h_: MUG was good. No internet connection though :(
<snap-l> howdy.
<brousch> this sucks for half of the people using a 5 year old computer https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-96/+bug/741930/comments/5
<brousch> same bug for nvidia-173 legacy drivers
<tjagoda> You could be like the current state of my intel
<tjagoda> and just crash every 2 hours
<tjagoda> would that be better?
<tjagoda> =P
<brousch> at least you get to use unity for 2 hours at a stretch ...
<tjagoda> I like how we break, fix, break, break, fix in our release cycles
<tjagoda> My formerly rock-solid Ubuntu is now unreliabel and flakey at best =(
<tjagoda> reliable*
<brousch> beta
<tjagoda> This close to launch I am not inclined to accept that as excuse
<brousch> if you want solid, don't upgrade until 3 months after release
<tjagoda> There is an inherent problem in that statement
<tjagoda> in that it says its okay to release things lacking in quality
<tjagoda> =P
<brousch> everybody does it
<brousch> microsoft started it
<tjagoda> ....!!!!!
 * tjagoda explodes
<brousch> everyone knows you don't install MS until SP1 is out
<brousch> if MS does it, that makes it OK for everyone else
<tjagoda> This reasoning is flawed
<tjagoda> If MS makes shit, it should not mean that everybody else should therefore make shit
<tjagoda> it means they make shit and I don't want to use it
<tjagoda> non-shit should be the goal!
<tjagoda> =P
<brousch> obviously that is impossible
<tjagoda> 7.04 happened
<brousch> you end up with red hat, who releases software that's 2 year out of date so it's stable
<tjagoda> it is not impossible
<tjagoda> 7.04 was the last ubuntu that delivered new features while still remaning solid for me =(
<rick_h_> sometimes I just love being able to view the code to figure out how the heck to do something, or how to call methods, etc
<rick_h_> but dammit, when the code makes no sense, it's worse than the lack of docs ugh
<tjagoda> tomorrow is kernel and release freeze day
<tjagoda> They then have 7 days until they build the release image
<snap-l> tjagoda: Which means you'll have a more stable system soon if you file bugs. ;)
<snap-l> otherwise quitcherbitchin'
<tjagoda> I have been, thank you =(
<snap-l> On the plus side, I have the Ubuntu One Music store again
<tjagoda> Even a minor unity one where libreoffice close/min/max buttons do not appear when you launch from files versus launching from the launcher
<snap-l> (under Rhythmbox. Did an uninstall of the old plugin, and an install of the new plugin)
<snap-l> was version 0.1.8, now version 0.0.9
<snap-l> Thank you, screwy numbering conventions.
<tjagoda> Wait
<snap-l> tjagoda: Are you sure the problem isn't with your video drivers?
<snap-l> That's sounding an awful lot like video problems.
<tjagoda> I am absolutely certain that my video drivers do not make only three buttons appear or disappear based on how I launch the program
<tjagoda> It's inside libreoffice
<tjagoda> happens nowhere else
<tjagoda> Are there any changes in libreoffice apart from the name, btw?
<tjagoda> I didn't notice much different, but I didn't look very hard
<snap-l> tjagoda: You should notice more as more release  come forth
<snap-l> mostly it's the ability to accept patches
<tjagoda> Mostly just organizational changes then?
<snap-l> tjagoda: Well, there's also a few patches that didn't get accepted into Open Office for one reason or another
<snap-l> http://www.libreoffice.org/download/new-features-and-fixes/
<snap-l> Stuff like "Import of Microsoft Works documents"
<snap-l> Many Wordperfect import improvements*
<tjagoda> WORD PRO IMPORT FILTER!
<tjagoda> WWOOOOOHOOOO!
<tjagoda> LOTUS BABY!
<brousch> lotus 123?
<tjagoda> We still use Lotus Approach in some DB's here
<tjagoda> I have like 40 licenses of the Lotus Smart Suite
<brousch> if it can open lotus 123 spreadsheets i will kiss somebody
<tjagoda> They do not explicity mention it
<brousch> damnit. our lotus is too old
<snap-l> ugh
<rick_h_> heh "dammit, we have lotus"
<rick_h_> had to correct that for you :)
<brousch> i'm way beyond that
<brousch> lotus 123 R 4. comes on 4 floppies
<brousch> damn thing still runs in win7
<brousch> sorry, 1-2-3 Release 5 for Windows
<brousch> copyright 1991, 1994
<ColonelPanic001> how does the Nook compare to the Kindle? Thoughts?
<brousch> nook color can easily become a real android tablet
<brousch> that's +++ in my book
<ColonelPanic001> http://www.woot.com/
<ColonelPanic001> is why I ask
<brousch> ah
<rick_h_> I say crap, but I know a couple of people that like their nooks
<ColonelPanic001> why's that
<ColonelPanic001> ?
<rick_h_> I've not been able to check with them on if they've used a kindle
<rick_h_> when I tried one in the store the software was horrible, bad usability, hung up on me, had to reset it
<ColonelPanic001> ah
<rick_h_> the dual screen thing I found distracting
<rick_h_> now, they've made some software updates over time
<ColonelPanic001> I'm still leaning towards waiting on ereaders anyway, for the moment
<rick_h_> so maybe it's better
<brousch> i have friends who like their nook
<ColonelPanic001> though, they're getting cheap enough for me to probably do it soon
<rick_h_> but I find the kindle better hardware, battery life, and I already buy most of my bookis via amazon
<ColonelPanic001> how's the DRMness?
<rick_h_> brousch: but any that can compare nook v kindle? That's what I'm looking for
<rick_h_> of the nook? it's drm-y, but it does to epub I think so that's a win if you get your books from other sources
<rick_h_> and kindle doesn't :(
<ColonelPanic001> of either, I suppose. I just like the idea of getting the books with as little DRM as possible, rather than "rent them until they take them back", etc
<ColonelPanic001> especially since ebooks are often not that much cheaper anyway, seems
<snap-l> Any eBook reader is DRMy.
<ColonelPanic001> equally, though?
<brousch> i think the drm depends more on where you buy it than on what you run it
<snap-l> brousch: ++
<brousch> where you buy the book
<ColonelPanic001> ah. noted'
<brousch> or "acquire" the book
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: If you want the DRM books, buy a device that handles wirless and shopping on the device
<snap-l> The Kobo that I bought handles it that way, and I would be hard-pressed to notice the DRM
<snap-l> That said, I have two books that I bought that way.
<snap-l> If you use the PC client, it's a miserable experience.
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<snap-l> rick_h_: Nice... so Natty is shipping with a busticated pyopenssh?
<snap-l> I love too that the folks that we're working with to solve the Java "Null Pointer Exception" issue are blaming my script for sending something malformed
<snap-l> Which might be true, but it's also true of someone elses' Perl program
<snap-l> Which leads me to believe that it might not just be our code that's faulty.
<rick_h_> snap-l: wheeeee
<snap-l> Yeah, isn't that the first step in debugging: blame the OS
<brousch> i thought that was only if you're running windows
<snap-l> (literally had a VB coder tell me that the OS was faulty because his code was crashing
<wolfger> snap-l: http://www.teefury.com/
<wolfger> also, any other old school gamers ^^
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> i am demoing natty next thursday at wmlug. should i use the tablet with broken nvidia drivers, the netbook with broken wifi drivers, or a virtual machine running on my mac?
<snap-l> brousch: Tough call. :)
<brousch> we'll see how the virtualbox vm works. if it fails unity i'll try to scrounge up a laptop with working drivers
<greg-g> so sad
<brousch> yeah, the worst part is i like it and am excitd about it
<brousch> i might have a usb wifi dongle i could use on the netbook
<wolfger> netbook with a wire?
<brousch> i haven't presented at this location. there will probably be ethernet, but i can't assume it right now
<brousch> crap. the last presenter had trouble with the projector in linux
<brousch> sounds like i need to make a trip out there beforehand
<rick_h_> ugh, 2.5hrs down the drain debugging stupid IE css bugs with absolute positioned crap
<windows_> if anyone is looking for a job Urban Science has openings. beware... it's 99% Microsoft
<windows_> https://careers-urbanscience.icims.com/jobs/intro
<snap-l> I wonder if the Circus is hiring, because right now I want to run away and join it
<rick_h_> snap-l: ruh roh
<snap-l> Java and I have irreconcilable differences
<rick_h_> snap-l: time to lawyer up...who's going to get the laptop in the split?
<_stink_> i think that pre-nup you agreed to by clicking 'Next' is gonna be a tough o ne
<rick_h_> oooh, good cap
<rick_h_> /cap/call
<ColonelPanic001> I wish I could access my Safari account (via the ACM) through the Kindle for Android app
 * ColonelPanic001 daydreams
<ColonelPanic001> I guess I could do it via a browser, but online online as far as I know, etc. meh, good enough
<rick_h_> ColonelPanic001: yea, if I could get safari access on the kindle I'd subscribe today
<rick_h_> but then there's little desire to buy the books, just subscribe
<ColonelPanic001> yeah.
<jrwren> what did java do to you?
<rick_h_> "bend over user..."
<jrwren> user?
<rick_h_> tron
<jrwren> the virus that is the win32 installer?
<rick_h_> sorry, have a strange thing going today, part monday's, part just out of it
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/13/hacker-gains-access-to-wordpress-com-servers/
<rick_h_> so who's getting hacked next
<brousch> bmark.us
<rick_h_> woo!
<jrwren> lol
<rick_h_> lol, jrwren what did you get called a fanboi for?
<brousch> i declare ubuntu 10.04 the ubuntu developer edition. it's so easy to get it up and running and it's just like your deploy environment
<jrwren> i'm watching the mix keynote.
<rick_h_> brousch: so LTS == dev edition?
<brousch> sounds good to me
<brousch> i really miss apt-get when i work in osx
<rick_h_> #1 reason to not use osx
<brousch> oh awesome, pydev is now included with aptana 3
<brousch> no need to install it seperately
<rick_h_> snap-l: you guys going to Ignite tomorrow?
<snap-l> I have tickets, but I'm thinking I'll pass
<snap-l> rick_h_: You planning on going?
<rick_h_> yea, we've got babysitter and all
<rick_h_> so we're a bit more dedicated lol
<snap-l> Ah, very cool
<snap-l> Apparently. ;)
<rick_h_> well, when we leave the house it takes us a bit more planning/commitment
<greg-g> rick_h_: cool man, I bet jcastro will be there. carrie and i are about 50/50 at this point
<rick_h_> cool
<jcastro> there's going to be like 1000 people there this time
<jcastro> we should go!
<snap-l> I sent JoDee some of the particulars. She might be interested in going
<jcastro> greg-g: you guys should come, haven't seen carrie since ... the wedding? that can't be right.
<greg-g> geez, uh, maybe!
<rick_h_> greg-g: any word yet from put west?
<rick_h_> /put/out
<_stink_> ..
<rick_h_> ummm...yea
<rick_h_> so about the news
<_stink_> :P
<jjesse> what news?
<rick_h_> greg-g: news or no news...just curious
<greg-g> news, complicated news
<greg-g> uber short version: a no
<jjesse> good complicated or bad complicated? or none of our business news
<rick_h_> hmmm, well don't like the uber short version
<greg-g> less short version: no, but we still want you here, so we're looking for a place for you, how do you like this other position?
<rick_h_> did you get a name and address? Road trip!
<_stink_> well, that's good.
<greg-g> haha
<_stink_> greg-g: do you like the other position?
<greg-g> yeah, the best rejection I could have gotten really
<rick_h_> greg-g: ok, that's cool. Other position isn't janitor right?
<greg-g> meh
<_stink_> heh
<greg-g> haha
<rick_h_> well I mean it wasn't an insulting no
<greg-g> so, the other position is more dev than I want, but the guy who I was referred to is also hiring for a position that I do like, so when I chat with him, I'll work my magic
<rick_h_> "we really like you, how about you come make fries for a bit and we'll see where we can fit you in"
<greg-g> :)
<_stink_> that's the sort of thing where in like 3 years they surprise you with an offer that's really nice.
<jjesse> mmmmmm fries
<_stink_> or, based on that, << 3 years.
<rick_h_> more dev than you like? How is that possible?
 * rick_h_ doesn't compute that bit
<rick_h_> :P
<greg-g> haha, yeah
<rick_h_> well ok, so that's still kind of cool, but not as cool
<greg-g> but apparently, my skill level is higher than most of the people who have already applied for that position (my skill level being low)
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> still working my way in :)
<greg-g> maybe
<rick_h_> in the door is 90% right
<snap-l> greg-g: That's awesome!
<snap-l> At least it isn't a "no, go away, and lose this number"
<greg-g> no kidding
<snap-l> I hate those
<greg-g> made me feel sad and nice at the same time
<rick_h_> that's kind of funny that you've got more dev exp than the CA applying people
<rick_h_> I thought great devs were falling out of trees if you're in CA
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> wait, what did i miss?
<jjesse> <greg-g> less short version: no, but we still want you here, so we're looking for a place for you, how do you like this other position?
<rick_h_> brousch: the coolest best thing ever...but too late
<brousch> i disconnected for like 13 seconds
<rick_h_> yea, too bad
<snap-l> It's gotta be hanging out with rick_h_
<rick_h_> so I missed that reference
<rick_h_> probably better that way
<rick_h_> man I have the monday's today
<snap-l> "We just thought you were a poor schlub, but you know the true power of VI. I must speak with the master at once!"
<snap-l> "Master, it is THE ONE that was prophesised"
<snap-l> "He comes to us seeking employment as a mere community manager, but he knows too much"
<snap-l> "his eyes sparkle as one who knows the true path to enlightenment"
<snap-l> "I have waited many years for this. It is truly a sign. We had a place for THE ONE, but it was shuffled away during the last reo-org. We shall indeed make a place for 'the one'"
<brousch> "his beard bristles with boundless knowledge, each hair represents a hard-won fiber of The Truth"
<snap-l> Why is it that book publishers that should know better don't have eBooks?
<brousch> they want to die
<brousch> interesting. vbox 4.0.5 guest additions pre-release for natty http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads
<brousch> maybe this will fix unity in vbox
<jjesse> yay
<brousch> omg it worked
<brousch> i have unity in a vbox vm
<jjesse> yay
<brousch> greg-g: how about github? http://jobs.github.com/positions/3dbea538-6575-11e0-8264-7c5c81f937a2
<brousch> jjesse: i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or foreal
<jjesse> foreal
<jjesse> i've been fighting vbox and natty for a long time
<jjesse> makes hard to document when you keep having display problems
<brousch> for some reason i had to mount that iso manually
<jjesse> i'm thinking about spending the weekend reloading my laptop, might just go to natty
<brousch> then ran 'sudo /media/cdrom1/aurorun.sh'
<jjesse> aurorun?  is that some harry potter command?
<brousch> indeed, it is magic
<jjesse> summon the aurors from azkaban
<rick_h_> brousch: damn, you beat me to it
<rick_h_> just saw that on twitter
<brousch> saw what?
<brousch> oh, the github thing?
<rick_h_> yea, the github community mananger opening
<brousch> ur tubez r 2 slow
<rick_h_> doh!
<rick_h_> what I get for driving
<rick_h_> I should keep myself parked in front of my laptop
<brousch> hootsuite brings the tubes to me everywhre
<rick_h_> yes, but I don't think it does the irc to greg-g
<rick_h_> that took me stopping at the coffeeshop
<snap-l> That would be the one "blah blah is a githubber" message that would be woth the subscription. :)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> so guess we need to check out greg-g's ruby is these days
<snap-l> and natty is flakey
<rick_h_> we're just now stating that?
<snap-l> But that's while running compiz on the host machine
<snap-l> I meant in a VM
<rick_h_> ah
<snap-l> Bah, and gnome-settings-daemon kees crashing
<brousch> it's stable so far, but my host is my mbp
<brousch> shadow under the top panel is acting funny
<snap-l> Wordpress.com had a major security brea, btw
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, pasted that earlier. Concensus is that bmark.us will be next high priority target
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h_> bah, I shold have brought hedaphones
<snap-l> caribou noisy?
<rick_h_> yea, and getting busier
<rick_h_> this is the one on 16mi though
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> If you want to drop down, I can loan you some headphones
<snap-l> though that'll likely defeat the purpose
<rick_h_> heh, naw all good.
<rick_h_> just whining as I'm apt to do
<rick_h_> heh, let's see if I can get kicked off the network here by trying to readable my whole install now
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/gp66n/nokia_laying_off_up_to_6000_staff_and_all_the/
<snap-l> Ouch
<snap-l> http://www.qconbeijing.com/download/Gavin%20keynote.pdf
<snap-l> Apparently the new hotness is to put stuff on the JVM other than Java
<rick_h_> man, always suprises me how many people have their ringtone the thme song from american beauty
<ColonelPanic001> I don't think I've heard that
<snap-l> I don't remember the theme
<greg-g> brousch: huh, do you know when that was posted?
<rick_h_> greg-g: just saw it shared on twitter today
<rick_h_> and that was from the github twitter account
<greg-g> rick_h_: cool
<greg-g> tbh, this is what I'm hoping to weasel my way into: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Job_openings/Head_of_Community_Fellowship_Program
<rick_h_> nice!
<snap-l> Gah, afternoon confernce calls are the worst
<ColonelPanic001> a car crash would be worse.
<snap-l> I meant of the genus conferencus callus
<ColonelPanic001> a conference call to discuss it later would be worse.
<ColonelPanic001> >_>
 * ColonelPanic001 ducks
 * waldo323_ most likely will miss CHC tonight due to name on plane flight needs to be fixed problem :(
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: This WAS a conference call to continue a conference call on MOnday
<waldo323_> ick
<ColonelPanic001> lolz, that's pretty annoying, you're right there
<snap-l> waldo323_: Ugh
<jcastro> OMG
<jcastro> $2 oberons at ignite tomorrow
<snap-l> I feel sluggish today.
<rick_h_> snap-l: +1
<snap-l> http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/lights/e791/?cpg=157H&image
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-14
<snap-l> What the fuck Ponzi bullshit is occurring behind us?
<widox> snap-l: join in now to make huge a return!!
<snap-l> We're selling services
<snap-l> It is talking every fiber of my being not to turn around and say that this is a huge load of horseshit
<snap-l> Bwahahahaha
<rick_h_> they were talking about verizon microcell type boxes/etc earlier
<snap-l> Gee, either they're like Amway, or they're just talking shit
<snap-l> Perhaps I repeat myself
<snap-l> here's the hard sell
<snap-l> I hope they sell shovels, because this is hip deep
<snap-l> my BS detector is screaming
<rick_h_> Blazeix: https://launchpad.net/~rharding/+archive/ppa
<snap-l> Dear God...
<greg-g> I'm missing some fun times at CHC, eh?
<Blazeix> I'm generally really good at blocking people out while working. But not with these guys.
<rick_h_> yea, we're surrounded
<rick_h_> 'STFU' and "ooh, VOIP FTW!"
<snap-l> Someone is selling some bullshit VOIP shit
<jjesse> when does beta 2 come out?
<rick_h_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
<jjesse> tomorrow
<snap-l> I'm going to blow up from all of the bullshit flying around.
<Blazeix> 25.6 trillion in revenue? That's pretty impressive
<widox> A TRILLION DOLLARS!
<snap-l> I think they'd make more money selling each other shit on Amazon using each other's referral codes.
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: http://vimeo.com/19465332
<rick_h_> http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=node.js+v8+debugger
<rick_h_> wow, 4yrs later: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/174449
<rick_h_> ok, well 3.5
<snap-l> apt-cache searches the *cache*, not some remote online database
<snap-l> Seriously? That took 3.5 years?
<ColonelPanic001> >_>
<rick_h_> :)
<greg-g> g'morn
<snap-l> I'm a litle bit pissed
<snap-l> I just got told that our web services gateway needs \r\n, not just \n
<snap-l> in an expression that gets sent to it
<snap-l> and that I should really use wireshark to test this out beforehand
<snap-l> Considering a) I'm on a unix machine, and \n is damn fine enough without adding the carriage return, and b) it's https, so wireshark is pretty much useless, that recommendation was tried
<rick_h_> heh
<Milyardo> wireshark? for what?
<snap-l> So, now to tell this group that requiring \r\n is anachronistic
<snap-l> Milyardo: To debug the soap request we were sending
<snap-l> Apparently they're correct. It's in the RFC and everything
<snap-l> so essentially the W3C is anachronistic.
<_stink_> huh - when i was sending soap to a horrible windows stack server, it handled \n just fine.
<_stink_> and this product was/is horrible.
<snap-l> between the request bondaries?
<_stink_> i never built a \r\n anywhere.
<_stink_> by request boundaries, do you mean something like many requests in one TCP connection or something?
<snap-l> considering I downloaded this from another source, I tend to agree.
<snap-l> Yeah, attachments
<_stink_> ah, ok.  i may have never done that in particular.
<snap-l> That's OK, it doesn't seem to work anyway.
<greg-g> snap-l: dang RFC's laying down the law
<greg-g> (they're the closest thing we have to laws on the web)
<snap-l> Well, what I loved was how snotty this person was about it
<snap-l> and in the end, it still doesn't work
<rick_h_>  well if you were hoping the tech team shoots down unity, not likely: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2011/04/unity-environment-in-good-shape-on-track-for-ubuntu-1104.ars
<snap-l> asked him if he actually ran the code
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> but of course not, why would you go through all that trouble
<snap-l> He came off as a real dick of "if you haven't done something so simple, I can't be bothered to help you"
<greg-g> grr
<brousch> GRR? coming here for a visit?
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> i hate macs.
<jrwren> they mouse accel is all fucked and the home and end keys do the wrong thing. this old dog will be windows and linux 4 ever.
<rick_h_> + .5
<_stink_> haha
<jrwren> if 11.10 goes further with teh mac direction and changes the mouse adn home/end, I'm changing distro :)
<jrwren> and that is the start of my troll bait for today.
<rick_h_> lol, take my window manager, but leave my home/end keys
<rick_h_> snap-l sounds too busy to fight back today
<rick_h_> but his angst levels might be elevated, could be a good time if he arrives
<brousch> jrwren: you have home and end keys?
<brousch> and a mouse?
<snap-l> Acutally, I agree that home / end on a mac are kind of screwed up
<snap-l> was one thing that really didn't make sense.
<snap-l> rick_h_: So, neener neener. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> booooo, that wasn't entertaining
<jrwren> at least the ide I'm in does emacs ctrl-a, ctrl-e, but after 6yrs of home and end, i'm having a rough time adjusting
<jrwren> rick_h_: shall i attempt to make snap-l's angst levels rise further?
<snap-l> The mac mouse profiles are different than Windows
<rick_h_> I'm trying to train myself away from home/end
<rick_h_> it's too far away
<snap-l> I think they're smoother, not necessarily better.
<snap-l> I got away from ctrl-a for home on the command-line because of screen. :)
<snap-l> but ctrl-e is a godsend
<jrwren> rick_h_: 6-10 yrs ago I was home/end free... i was all emacs & vim and could easily switch between those two env.
<jrwren> but i lost that skill :(
<jrwren> snap-l: you don't ctrl-a a
<jrwren> i type ctrl-a a more than ctrl-a for BOL and so I often get ^A when i'm outside of screen :)
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> I don't use screen as much as I should
<rick_h_> so I've not started to work around it's shortcuts
<snap-l> I think Byobu's shortcuts are better. They use the Fn keys.
<snap-l> so Fn2 is new screen
<snap-l> But Ctrl-A still works, though
<rick_h_> bah, it messes me up for some reason. Something fails for me, tring to recall what
<_stink_> just remap screen's prefix to `.
<snap-l> Leave it to GNU utilities to screw up keybindings between programs in the termial
<rick_h_> I keep trying byobu but end up back to screen
<greg-g> ok, I just tested ctrl+a and ctrl+e in vim, and uh, that was amazing. ctrl-a added 1 to any number I was on and ctrl-e copied whatever was below/above to the line I was one
<snap-l> greg-g: Yes, repeat after me: vi is not emacs. ;)
<jrwren> i hate byobu shortcuts.
<jrwren> i use byobu for the nice bottom bar, but I still use they screen keyboard
<jrwren> i want to figure out how to turn off the byobu Fn keys.
<greg-g> snap-l: oh, it was emacs they were talking about
 * greg-g hangs head
<snap-l> Well, bash command line in emacs mode
<snap-l> which is more sensical than the vim shortcut mode
<snap-l> and this is from a hardcore vim user.
<jrwren> greg-g: bash starts in emacs mode by default on most distro. type a line in bash adn try ctrl-a ctrle there.
<rick_h_> psh, zsh + vim mode == heaven
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yes yes, we know.
<jrwren> snap-l: agreed, although I have played with the bash vim mode and decided that it would be very sweet if I were a sysadmin
<snap-l> jrwren: Agreed
<rick_h_> did I mention zsh > bash?
<rick_h_> :)
<jrwren> i didn't discover bash vim mode until after I left sysadmin world :(
<jrwren> zsh is BARELY > bash
<rick_h_> hahahahahahahahahahaha
<jrwren> and given bash is more ubiquotous, i'll stick with being able to run my scripts more places.
<rick_h_> bash feels like logging into cmd.exe
<jrwren> note: I stole that argument from jam for perl > python :)
<rick_h_> who said anything about scripts
<rick_h_> I mean in just usage
<jrwren> i spike scripts at the cmd line all the time.
<rick_h_> zsh, type less:do more (I should start an ad campaign)
<jrwren> then ctrl-a echo ' and ctrl-e ' > startofnewscript
<jrwren> type less? well, I do like ot type less.
<rick_h_> 0 == shorter than ctrl-a
<rick_h_> $ = shorter than ctrl-e
<jrwren> meh, esc 0, you ahve to get into mode.
<jrwren> so its 2 keys to 2 keys.
<rick_h_> it accepts the same alias I use in vim, jj, it supports D, dw, d4w, etc
<jrwren> or 4 keys to 3 keys
<jrwren> yes yes, bash vim mode does all that too
<snap-l> And now we have our morning flamewar. :)
<rick_h_> nope, bash does not allow you to map a custom esc
<rick_h_> there we go! flame on!
<jrwren> you mean change meta?
<jrwren> sure it does.
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/zshrc for the nice lovely list
<rick_h_> no, I mean allow me to say "map jj to esc when in insert mode"
<jrwren> because its not actually ESC, its meta... and in bash it comes from readline, so just set meta to what you want in .readlinerc.
<rick_h_> bindkey "jj" vi-cmd-mode
<jrwren> what do you use for your meta?
<jrwren> jj?
<jrwren> wtf is jj?
<rick_h_> meta lol
<rick_h_> it's an easier to hit home row combo to change modes
<jrwren> like literally typing hte j key twice?
<rick_h_> yes, in rapid succession
<jrwren> how rapid? I htink I might hate that.
<jrwren> "double click the j key"
<jrwren> rol
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> much nicer than the esc key, or ctrl-] and such
<rick_h_> so shell matches vim == win
<rick_h_> without doing any meta/etc remapping
<jrwren> indeed that is sweet.
<jrwren> you use teh same thing to toggle modes in vim?
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> " Maps for jj to act as Esc
<rick_h_> ino jj <esc>
<rick_h_> cno jj <c-c>
<_stink_> aren't there some Icelandic words with adjacent 'j's?
<_stink_> what if you needed to type them?
<rick_h_> yep, thankfully I don't care since I'm american and hate the rest of the world with a fiery passion
<rick_h_> I do sometimes need j's and you have to slow down
<rick_h_> it has a timeout where if you don't hit a second key, it just types a j
<rick_h_> the rest of the time I can switch modes much faster from home row so it's a worthwile tradeoff
<Blazeix> I hear the Hajj is nice this time of year.
<_stink_> Blazeix++
<rick_h_> lol, how long did that take to pull up?
<snap-l> http://www.digibarn.com/collections/screenshots/xerox-star-8010/index.html
<rick_h_> loading...loading...loading...
<_stink_> yeah, dns times out here
<snap-l> I think it's getting slashdotted
<rick_h_> cache comes up sans images
<brousch> came up very quickly for me just now
<brousch> hm, all of the links are purple like i'd already visited them
<brousch> wow, they had email and non-English letters back then
<snap-l> Yeah, pretty radical.
<snap-l> Grr, I hate it when I'm wrong
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<snap-l> Yeah, apparently \r\n is needed
<snap-l> and the XML I was sending was messed up
<snap-l> It's positional, not a list like I thought it was.
<snap-l> blargh
<snap-l> On the plus side, I have something working. :)
<jrwren> \r\n ?
<jrwren> on linux?  :(
<tjagoda> Somebody didn't get the memo
<rick_h_> http://www.rabbitmq.com/resources/RabbitMQ_Oxford_Geek_Night.pdf
<wolfger> what memo?
 * wolfger didn't get a memo :-(
<TeamXlink> Is running a 300 wat recommended graphics card on a 250wat psu a bad idea?
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> The card will perform incorrect math when under-voltage
<tjagoda> Strange glitches and etc.
<TeamXlink> Alright, sweet thank you!
<tjagoda> np
<wolfger> uh...
<wolfger> wouldn't that actually be under-current?
<wolfger> <-- nit-picky
<Milyardo> wolfger: V=IR, decreasing voltage decreases current since R is constant
<wolfger> Milyardo: P=IE. If a 250W power supply provides 5VDC (or 24VDC, or whatever), the full load amps is constant. If a device requires 350W, it's not asking for higher than normal volts, therefore it must be asking for higher than available amps
<wolfger> there is such a thing as a current supply, where the current is constant and the voltage varies, but I've never seen such a thing in a computer. Pinout specify the constant voltage supplied, amps is variable depending on the draw.
<ColonelPanic001> for a second I thought I accidently was looking in #hamradio
<_stink_> hah
<snap-l> http://www.baekdal.com/media/facebook-deemphasizing-twitter-and-brands
<snap-l> Bah
<snap-l> http://www.baekdal.com/media/facebook-deemphasizing-twitter-and-brands/32F41CE1F5434A37949409815D8978F9AE71601BBCC80153B99E26BDACFD7218
<snap-l> Need the hash in order to not get pestered to subscribe
<brousch> a multi-network client like hootsuite gets around that problem
<snap-l> Frankly, it's yet another example of how Facebook changes the terms of what they'll allow on their site
<snap-l> Don't worry, it will get worse.
<brousch> i hate facebook
<snap-l> I do too. I deleted my account a while ago
<snap-l> But, Facebook is moving more and more toward social activity over social presence. It is not enough just to follow somebody. You also have to hug them.
<brousch> jrwren: can i send zuckerberg a flaming bag of turds? i know you have opinions about who does and doesn't deserve one
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://www.androidcentral.com/top-htc-thunderbolt-accessories for the wife
<snap-l> Figures that the second purchase is an expanded battery
<snap-l> THis sucker LOVES the battery
<rick_h_> yea, I've had the extended battery for a while now and love the difference it makes
<rick_h_> though a year in it's starting to wear down a bit
<brousch> ah damnitall. we hired a guy to help set up 3d modelling. he is now asking me how to sum a column in excel
<jjesse> maybe you shouldn't have hired the guy who showed up w/ the book "3d modeling for dummies"
<tjagoda> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_J6GPB38gQ&feature=related
<brousch> jjesse: boss's brother
<jjesse> awesome
<greg-g> snap-l: digging the industrial OMC episode (yes, i'm behind in actually listening to them)
<snap-l> greg-g: Cool! Glad you're enjoying it!
<greg-g> my boss walks in, asks whether I wear the headphones to listen to music or to make people think I listen to much. I say "both." She then asks what I'm listening to. I should have plugged OMC, but, I don't think she would have understood the term "industrial" :)
<_stink_> so what did you say?
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> bethoven
<snap-l> One of my bosses got a taste of Frederik Thorndendal's Special Defects
<snap-l> She said it was acid music
<greg-g> "internet radio"
<snap-l> Bah, that's overbroad
<_stink_> cop out
<_stink_> "sounds" :P
<snap-l> Waveforms that are pleasing to my earholes
<_stink_> hah
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5FxKow-LJM <- You need to take the opportunity to expand their mind
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-15
<greg-g> jcastro: hehe http://grossmeier.net/files/screenshots/which-is-it.png
<greg-g> http://blog.grossmeier.net/2011/04/14/mug-sponsorship-success/
<greg-g> If you couldn't guess from the url: our sponsorship drive was a success!
<widox> greg-g: awesome!
<widox> was going to ask if you got my money
<greg-g> widox: yep, sure did!
<rick_h_> yay!
<jjesse> yay greg-g
<jjesse> also got my taxes done before they were due
<jjesse> yay
<rick_h_> heh, finished ours today, have to put the check in the mail tomorrow :(
<jjesse> getting money back from federal and paying state and city
<rick_h_> damn, hit another error, up to 3,430 bookmarks processed, time to fix error and start over
<jjesse> wow thats a lot of bookmarks
<rick_h_> heh, the total is over 15k
<rick_h_> got a sample from a guy with many bookmarks to stress test bookie
<jjesse> 15k bookmarks?  wow
<jjesse> i can't remember the last time i bookmarked a site, doesn't google take care of that for me?
<rick_h_> yea, just a few. Makes for good test material
<rick_h_> sorry, 16733 actually
<rick_h_> with 7344 tags
<rick_h_> I've only got 1/10 that
<rick_h_> but yea, trying to load up the content of all of those pages without getting any sort of script error
<wolfger> morning
<brousch> coffee
<wolfger> cool... I used to read WTF all the time. He's coming to Penguicon. http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Penguicon-2011.aspx
<rick_h_> ugh, zzzzzz
<rick_h_> I have a feeling not much is going to get done today
<brousch> turn that frown upside-down and get hoppin!
<widox> at least its friday!
<rick_h_> yea, so sleepy though, and road trip
<rick_h_> I need to place a new law, all wife's friends must live within a 30min radius
<brousch> you visiting the better side of the state today?
<tjagoda> brousch is far too happy this morning
<brousch> unity has been running for 2 days in my VM. what's not to be happy about?
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, will be in muskeegon tonight/tomorrow
<brousch> too cold to have fun
<brousch> you could go to GLSEC
<rick_h_> yea, 1yr old birthday party so booked already
<rick_h_> and not sticking around long enough to have free time
<brousch> party party
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh joy
<snap-l> and it's your favoritest person, I'm sure. :)
<rick_h_> she's cool, her husband I still can't believe she married
<rick_h_> full tool factor in effect
<brousch> welcome to muskegon
<rick_h_> yea, basically
<brousch> the flint of west michigan
<snap-l> I thought it was more Ferndale than Flint
<rick_h_> this is the guy that was doing night PC monitoring shifts for mejier and wanted to know how he could get to 'do what you do with the working from home and great pay' in less than a year 'without going to school, I don't have time for that'
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh boy.
<snap-l> One of those "You fuck around on the Internet all day and get paid $$" folks? :)
<brousch> PC Pro Schools!
<rick_h_> well, it's the case of "I'm in computers"
<rick_h_> so you ask and find out he sits in a control center with a bunch of monitors and if any lights go red he calls someone
<snap-l> Yeah, that's all we do; surf the net and collect paychekcs
<brousch> tell him to start a blog. it is the road to riches with no effort
<snap-l> Or a podcast
<brousch> he'll need an editor ...
<snap-l> Heck, we're only .00001% away from that island.
<snap-l> progress!
<rick_h_> have we made $0.0001 yet?
<snap-l> I think you got a referral once.
<snap-l> unless you bought from your own code. ;)
<rick_h_> phew, almost had to use a soap api at work...but they don't support the api for the admin side of the app, only the report generation
<wolfger> .00001% away? Or .00001% towards?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh God
<snap-l> wolfger: What do you think? :)
<rick_h_> 26 clicks with 0 conversions so far according to AMZ
<wolfger> I think it's the opposite of what you said
<tjagoda> brousch: It hasn't crashed on you?
<tjagoda> Mine crashes if I try to use the 3d matrix screensaver =(
<rick_h_> I need to tie the podcast into a business so I can write off gear expenses
<snap-l> rick_h_: Well, 4 more clicks, and we can get 6% of nothing instead of 4%
<brousch> tjagoda: nope. and it's been through half a dozen sleep cycles too
<tjagoda> ..wow
<wolfger> rick_h_: Shh. Don't say "amz" too loudly. snap-l will blow a gasket.
<tjagoda> I crash a few times a day
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<rick_h_> I think I might upgrade today
<rick_h_> in place upgrade on the laptop
<tjagoda> The register just posted I terrible review of beta 2
<rick_h_> I don't have anything due today, might as well break my systesm to bits
<snap-l> wolfger: You might want to try a 1980s toy, because my ripcord is a little hardr to find.
<wolfger> lol
<tjagoda> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/14/ubuntu_second_beta/
<tjagoda> rick_h: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/14/ubuntu_second_beta/
<rick_h_> and no, that doesn't mean unity will touch this
<brousch> tjagoda: i just installed the lastest dist-upgrade. we'll see if it dies
<wolfger> snap-l: That's not how I recall our last conversation going.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh, you know you'll give it 10 minutes.
<tjagoda> hmm
<tjagoda> I should do a dist-upgrade when I get home
<rick_h_> snap-l: hmmm, doubtful
<tjagoda> I only did a normal upgrade last night
<brousch> wolfger: it's not that he hates amazon, it's that he is a big ubuntu one fanboy
<wolfger> brousch: it's both
<snap-l> wolfger: Talk to my UPS guy. I don't hate Amazon. :)
<brousch> all of the nautilus icons changed to a very greyish brown
<brousch> they all look disabled
<brousch> like they're unavailable
<brousch> i think all of the latest icon changes are less intuitive than the previous icons
<rick_h_> crap, what's the upgrade -d command? I just had it and lost it
<wolfger> snap-l: you have an irrational hatred of AmazonMP3
<brousch> rick_h_: do-release-upgrade ?
<rick_h_> no, that's not it. You send a -d for development release to this command
<rick_h_> heh, guess that has it, I'm thinking of a different one though, oh well
<rick_h_> I'll try this one then
<brousch> you're going natty on your main laptop?
<rick_h_> yea, nothing due for work today and having a giant WTH moment
<brousch> hm, i think it's not using the theme it says it is
<rick_h_> 11 installed packages are no longer supported by Canonical. You can
<rick_h_> still get support from the community.
<rick_h_> hmmm, I wonder what those 11 are :/
<rick_h_> it would be nice to have those listed
<brousch> awesome and vim
<rick_h_> ah, details, got it
<brousch> git
<rick_h_>  f-spot gnome-user-share gnupg-curl ibus-m17n  libflickrnet2.2-cil libgnome-keyring1.0-cil libgnome-pilot2  liboil0.3 plymouth-x11 psfontmgr python-fstab
<rick_h_> You have to download a total of 1336M. This download will take about
<rick_h_> 23 minutes with your connection.
<rick_h_> let-r-rip
<brousch> bite me
<brousch> 1.3GB in 23 minutes
<rick_h_> though times like this I do wish I had the higher end plan
<brousch> heh, tried to take a screenshot of the funky theme and it locked up with half-transparent windows. good thing i'm using a VM so i can take a screenshot of the locked up screenshot
<brousch> now to wander launchpad
<brousch> must be video glitch. changing out of full screen mode fixed it
<brousch> heh, screenshots in unity are apparntly useless
<wolfger> how so?
<wolfger> oh, nm. I scrolled back :-)
<rick_h_> wtf is with the perma broadcast of gib? I mean, does anyone want to see video of PC? really?
<snap-l> rick_h_: I think gib is going to be the next JustinTV
<snap-l> I'm getting a little tired of him saying that everything needs broadcasting
<snap-l> I understand that it's new and cool, and likely interests him, but logistically it's a pain in the ass.
<snap-l> Unless he wants to spend his money buying bandwidth (myfi), I'd rather not be a party to abusing someone else's bandwidth.
<snap-l> And he's been to other release parties. Nobody, but nobody wants to watch a bunch of guys drink beer and talk about / install Ubuntu
<snap-l> unless a) they're participating, or b) you're Diggnation.
<rick_h_> I think I need to send him the content article I was reading today
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/gp/goldbox/ref=pe_36550_19506740_pe_00_head
<rick_h_> http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2011/04/12/make-your-content-make-a-difference/
<rick_h_> snap-l: you suck...that is all
<snap-l> rick_h_: Just let me play with it once you get it. ;)
<rick_h_> I can't...man but me wants...
<rick_h_> I think my wife would hide me in a muskeengon swamp if I did
<snap-l> Pretty sure she would.
<rick_h_> I can't manage to close the window though lol.
<rick_h_> you know a new one is coming before school I bet
<snap-l> rick_h_: They're moving towards free
<snap-l> I an feel it
<snap-l> It's a reverse auction on the kindle
<rick_h_> yea, but I'm not willing to go ads for it
<rick_h_> I'll pay for the dippy device, and you know the DX isn't on that free list
<snap-l> Not for $114, but what about $25?
<rick_h_> and that dx has 3g, hmmmm
<snap-l> If the ads prove successful, they might even go lower
<snap-l> Send them out to the prime customers.
<rick_h_> no, I'm completely against ads on there
<rick_h_> 110%
<snap-l> You are, but how many people are?
<rick_h_> it's like saying ubuntu can put ads on the boot/shutdown screens. No way
<rick_h_> I know, and even pople against it will end up with them
<rick_h_> they'll sell :( but I can't stand the lack of places I can go sans-ads any more
<wolfger> $300 for a Kindle. On sale. Really??? People pay for that?
<rick_h_> man, that DX at that price is gold...ugh...
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm not a fan of ads either.
<rick_h_> wolfger: it's the larger DX model
<snap-l> It's the holy grail of eBook readers
<snap-l> Ah to be able to read PDF files without zooming...
<rick_h_> exactly, especially since I've started to get teh books straight from the publishers in pdf form
<snap-l> https://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/27081
<rick_h_> though I still think it'd be too heavy for that bed time reading
<wolfger> rick_h_: I don't care what model it is. It's sole purpose in life is to allow you to buy overpriced e-books. If it's not free, you're paying too much.
<rick_h_> snap-l: nice, I was thinking of looking that upo
<snap-l> wolfger: You know not what you talk about
<rick_h_> wolfger: yea, because it's free to deviver hardware with month-long battery life and 1000+ books in one sleek device
<snap-l> Or you're trolling. :)
<brousch> i can buy an ipad for $300!
<wolfger> snap-l: It has a purpose other than reading e-books that cost as much as hardcover books?
<rick_h_> right, and an i-pad sucks for reading books
<brousch> no way. steve jobs says it is perfect for books
<rick_h_> it all depends on the books you get I guess
<snap-l> wolfger: Yes, and it's called reading discounted PDF and ePub files from tech publishers
<wolfger> hmm
<rick_h_> if I didn't just write a fat check to the tax man that thing would be ordered
<rick_h_> and I'd owe my wife a lot of points for forgiveness
<rick_h_> the darn thing is too big to hide from here :)
<rick_h_> /here/her
<brousch> tell her you got a bumper for your old one
<brousch> so it just seems bigger
<snap-l> rick_h_: You wouldn't have time to read it, because your ass would be giving foot-rubs every waking moment.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> I might be able to get $99 for mine, that covers part of it
<rick_h_> anyone need a $200 python script written? :)
<brousch> tons of them on rent a coder
<brousch> it will only tak you 2 weeks
<rick_h_> lol, awesome
<snap-l> "I want a new website. NExt facebook. IPO opportunity. $200"
<rick_h_> "I'd like a copy of digg for $50"
<rick_h_> ooh, pricey one there
<snap-l> "Meeet me at Caribou for my awesome new business opportunity."
<rick_h_> lol, "VOIP is the future!"
<tjagoda> My tax return paid for my blackberry playbook
<tjagoda> =)
<rick_h_> tjagoda: heh, well it's all good. Just means I didn't give the govt a nice loan all year interest free
<snap-l> tjagoda: Oh, so you're the other person that bought one?
<rick_h_> but enjoy that playbook, loving the mixed reviews coming in
<tjagoda> Excellent hardware reviews so far
<jrwren> brousch: you can snipe zuckerberg for all I care.
<rick_h_> so so from the one's I've read
<tjagoda> Supposedly 10 hours battery life
<rick_h_> and bad on the software side
<tjagoda> Nobody's really been able to review much of the software
<tjagoda> It all really comes down to whether or not your article was written my somebody lusting for an iPad
<rick_h_> heh, I don't think it's that single minded
<tjagoda> So many of the reviews are obviously biased in one direction or the other
<tjagoda> either in favor or blackberry or in favor of apple
<wolfger> rick_h_: you could stream the launch party on a $20 pay-per-view :-D
<tjagoda> nobody seems to care about the Android tab's
<rick_h_> and I've seen 7hrs - 10hrs dependind on how the battery test was done http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/13/blackberry-playbook-review/
<tjagoda> I like that both it's camera and display are real HD
<greg-g> rick_h_: thanks for that last tweet :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: no problem, good stuff
<greg-g> I felt bad, I/you beat them to the punch by a couple days ;)
<rick_h_> ok, upgrade done...brb (hopefully)
<greg-g> eek
<tjagoda> Has a mini-HDMI port too
<tjagoda> epid
<tjagoda> epic*
<brousch> RIP rick_h_
<rick_h_> yay, made it this far
<rick_h_> ugh, seems a small delay in things atm
<greg-g> don't worry, it is just churning through your dotfiles removing things that aren't in the standard user interface
<brousch> i think they are shoving a bunch of updates through this morning
<brousch> every time i dist-upgrade there's new stuff
<rick_h_> ugh, still no dual monitor...not that I was overly hopefull
<rick_h_> but held out a small chance
<snap-l> huh, didn't realize there's still a PowerPC Ubuntu
<snap-l> One of the guys at MUG was mentioning something about PowerPC
<greg-g> rick_h_: no dual monitor? isn't that kind of a showstopper?
<greg-g> ok, question, if a non-profit organization that funds some full-time paid devs on an open-source project that has an active/large volunteer dev community was thinking of doing some R&D type experiments on the code...
<rick_h_> greg-g: been like this since I updated my bios back in 10.04
<greg-g> Like, doing throw-away interface changes etc, what do you think the volunteer dev communities' reaction would be to a call for help? These experiments will most likely be choosen by the organization not the community (but of coruse with community input)
<rick_h_> greg-g: so if...?
<greg-g> I was thinking, initially, it'd be "heck no I'm not doing your dirty work for you"
<greg-g> but then I thought that these might be fun/interesting/out of the ordinary so it actually might illicit contributions from the volunteer side
<rick_h_> well, I think it'd be mixed
<rick_h_> right, R&D == more fun usually
<greg-g> yeah, always, I guess
<rick_h_> but also might not be 'scratch my itch'
<snap-l> Depends on how it's sold
<rick_h_> and then there's the 'hey, you're hiring people to work on that, either hire me or forget it'
<rick_h_> yea
<snap-l> If you sell it as "we'd like you to do the heavy lifting, and we'll cherry-pick the goodies", ten it'll be bad.
<greg-g> right right
<snap-l> if you sell it as "we're holding a contest..."
<snap-l> then that might work
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> bah, I'm only on 10.10
<greg-g> alright, thanks for being a sounding board
 * greg-g goes back to this email
<snap-l> greg-g: There's a way to make what they want palletable
<snap-l> contests might not be the way, but something where it's collaborative, with the idea that the community might not have the final word
<brousch> rick_h_: you have to upgrade through each release, you can't skip them
<brousch> except LTS to LTS
<greg-g> snap-l: right, definitely
<rick_h_> yea, and the maverick->natty won't go because of existing packages it looks like
<rick_h_> the problem with contents is that some people are paid devs
<snap-l> greg-g: Or they could just tell the truth
<snap-l> "Hey, we're not UI designers, and we want the best interface possible"
<snap-l> "We don't have enough $$ to pay, but we'd like some help to make this awesome"
<snap-l> (or whatever the situation is)
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, definitely nuanced
<snap-l> worst case, the community says no, so then you know what you can work with
<snap-l> but I'm sure if they have a developed community, someone will step up
<snap-l> I mean, there's people that develop Linux for free, even though Linus and others are paid.
<snap-l> Have I mentioned how much I hate Java lately?
<snap-l> because there's a lot of stupid in this language.
<waldo323> is that a class i missed?
<waldo323> ;)
<snap-l> ex: I'm looking to use Jax-ws
<snap-l> 2.1.7 is distributed as a .jar, with ne class called "main"
<snap-l> 2.2.3 is a zip file with everything that I need, apparently.
<snap-l> Except 2.2.3 gives me this admonition that JDK 1.6 ships with blah blah, which is not compatible with blah blah unless I use the blah blah extension to blah blah the blah blah
<snap-l> Ah, it's because I need to accept the CDDL before using 2.1.7
<snap-l> How clever.
<jrwren> snap-l: you basically have to be a java dev to rn that shit. best step up.
<snap-l> jrwren: So, in order to run java, first I need to be a java developer
<snap-l> that's consistent with my experience.
<snap-l> Maybe I should send away for one of those certifications so I can learn the secret handshake
<jrwren> that is my beleif.
<jrwren> i remember trying to run java servets when I was a sysadmin, I basically had to be a java dev.
<jrwren> I don't think that has changed.
<snap-l> jrwren: Nah, just dump the war files in a directory, and restart the server
<snap-l> Or, more accurately, dump the war files in a directory, and take down the server
<snap-l> same effect, really.
<snap-l> .war. HUNGH, good God y'all
<snap-l> What is it good for? Fuckin' up my TOMCAT
<snap-l> Woooo
<wolfger> LOL
<jrwren> yeah, then many apps aren't web configurationble.
<jrwren> so go edit some properties file somewhere.
<jrwren> and often finding that file is a bitch because its burried deep in some j2ee server location
<snap-l> jrwren: And this is reason #1 why I go to MichiPUG and not Java Anonymous
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> you go to michipug now?
<snap-l> On occasion
<snap-l> You've seen me there. ;)
<snap-l> I'm the guy that's not rick_h_ ;)
<rick_h_> ok, so getting desparate now...did I mention that I deserve what I get for trying to upgrade to natty?
<rick_h_> I think my system is about to blow up, time to get the usb drive ready lol
<snap-l> Did you back up prior to this?
<rick_h_> nope :)
<brousch> did you lobotomize yourself last night?
<rick_h_> pretty much
<rick_h_> no, most of my stuff is in git repos or dropbox
<rick_h_> made sure I pushed my git repos before starting this
<rick_h_> though now that I did redo my colo I guess those git repos aren't in the 'cloud' any more
<brousch> a common datacenter?
<brousch> how quaint
<rick_h_> please sir, might I have a natty upgrade?
<wolfger> snap-l: so there's a whole 3 of you that go to Michipug?
<rick_h_> ok, well uninstalling all of xorg makes the upgrade process go thorugh for me
<rick_h_> well, at least it starts, we'll see how it turns out in the end
<rick_h_> another 1.3gb of downloads yay
<brousch> geez
<rick_h_> uverse hates me today
<jrwren> i haven't been to michipug in a long time.
<snap-l> wolfger: There were over 10 people at the last meeting.
<snap-l> Didn't think to get an accurate headcount
<wolfger> snap-l: then "I'm the guy that's not rick_h_" isn't all that helpful... :-p
<rick_h_> no, that's a good help. we get confused a lot
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> I love Borders. Now I'm getting coupons in the mail that are "excludes toys, games, puzzles, and stuffed animals"
<rick_h_> "not valid on tomatos, fabric softener, or fish"
<snap-l> Apparently I broke them by purchasing just about every Munchkin core set they had. ;)
<snap-l> "40% coupon, + 10% borders member, + $5 bonus bucks"
<snap-l> and a free tasty beverage.
<jcastro> rick_h_: this LG 2x looks awesome
<jcastro> http://www.androidcentral.com/hands-lg-optimus-2x
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, the LG stuff is starting to look good
<jcastro> lame that it's only 2.2 though
<rick_h_> jcastro: you notice that there's a lack of trackballs on the new phones?
<jcastro> no I didn't
<rick_h_> yea, holding out for ice cream sandwhich for my next phone
<jcastro> I don't know if I like that or not
<rick_h_> thinking 4g + that will carry me for a bit
<rick_h_> yea, like the droid X has arrow keys on the keyboard to make up for it
<rick_h_> but I like the hardware button there
<rick_h_> I use that to wake my device and such
<rick_h_> and for moving around/etc
<rick_h_> but all the new fancy phones, no button/optical trackball
<rick_h_> jcastro: how'd the night finish up?
<rick_h_> was good stuff saying hi
<rick_h_> oh man, her cat is named vi, I should name my rotty vim when I get him/her: http://amayita.livejournal.com/197886.html
<jcastro> was fine
<jcastro> went to slows BBQ
<rick_h_> nice
<jcastro> I wish they had a nice midrange android in the $350 price range
<greg-g> btw, _stink_ or rick_h_ or snap-l who is trustedsage in #bookie?
<snap-l> nfc
<rick_h_> greg-g: no idea, never spoken in there
<rick_h_> he's a silent follower I guess
<rick_h_> I think he might be a guy from AA group that got told about bookie early on? the guy that wants the right-click in the chrome bookmark?
<rick_h_> but not verified
<krondor> mmm slow's
<rick_h_> I need to head there, do love me some bbq
<brousch> damn you all. i'm starving and taking a late lunch
<snap-l> Apparently Groove Salad is in the annoying female vocals section of the program
<krondor> here's a good table of the dual core phones coming out, their specs, and their carriers (not release times though)  http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/15/htc-sensation-versus-the-rest-of-the-dual-core-world-smartphone/
<wolfger> dual-core CPU phones
<wolfger> there's something your parents would never have dreamed up
<rick_h_> it's all our fault, we should stop calling them phones
<rick_h_> it's the true personal computer
<wolfger> really, yeah
<wolfger> I think I will start calling mine a mini-tablet
<wolfger> I think phone calls amount to <10% of my total usage
<rick_h_> ooh, install almost done yay
<wolfger> and it's only as high as it is because I'm in a hotel 4 nights a week and talking to home
<snap-l> jrwren: You remember you joking about Java requiring you to be a Java Developer in order to run Java?
<snap-l> Just ran into that with wsdlimport.sh
<jrwren> i wasn't joking.
<snap-l> Apparently, you need to run this in order to get the libraries that I was looking for
<jrwren> was there a smiley when I wrote it?
<snap-l> No, you're absolutely right
<snap-l> what an impenetrable piece of shit
<snap-l> and part of the problem was that the certificates for our environment weren't set up properly in my dev environment
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> cert mgmt is always so painful
<snap-l> Oh happy fuckin' day: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150591993642#ht_1699wt_840
<snap-l> I swear, Wendy Carlos' music is worth more than gold at the prices people put this stuff at.
<snap-l> http://cgi.ebay.com/SWITCHED-BACH-WENDY-CARLOS-LE-GOLD-CD-RARE-/380332329178#ht_500wt_855
<greg-g> rick_h_: everyone is getting on this tiling bandwagon: http://mizage.com/divvy/
<rick_h_> greg-g: yep, large displays, multi head display, people don't want to ahve to manually drag/resize things
<rick_h_> even the gui fans are catching on
<rick_h_> few more years it'll be full auto tiling I think
<rick_h_> lol, requires you to click/drag to organize
<rick_h_> bah, poor implementations ugh
<snap-l> The circle will be complete the day Lifehacker says you can double your productivity by hooking a VT220 to your serial port, and run Word Perfect 5.1
<rick_h_> geeze, this update manager "building data structures" is taking forever
<rick_h_> I'm closing in an hour :/
<rick_h_> and only at 36%
<snap-l> rick_h_: Were you looking at getting nothing done today? Because I think you're succeeding beyond your wildest dreams. ;)
<snap-l> http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Oracle-Announces-Its-Intention-to-Move-OpenOfficeorg-to-a-Community-Based-Project-NASDAQ-ORCL-1428324.htm
<snap-l> Man, Oracle, is there nothing you can't fuck up?
<brousch> it has already moved, without their blessing
<snap-l> exactly.
<snap-l> If this was their intention all along, why the messy fork?
<brousch> messy?
<snap-l> Would you say Libreoffice was a clean fork?
<snap-l> I'm not so sure it was clean
<brousch> looked good to me
<tjagoda> If I had the option of forking away from oracle
<tjagoda> or waiting and moving with oracle
<tjagoda> I would fork
<snap-l> tjagoda: ++
<brousch> hudson/jenkins seems messier
<snap-l> brousch: Oh no doubt
<brousch> with libreoffice, everyone jumped on board
<brousch> first version was usable and stable and came out quickly
<tjagoda> It's not like any commercial organizations really use openoffice anyway
<tjagoda> as it sucks so much compared to MS office
<tjagoda> =P
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, definitely. Up to 75% now
<rick_h_> though I did get lunch/mail tax check between then and the new 75% margin
<snap-l> but Only 4/11 worked out how to change the background picture. This is not as bad as it looks: for some of the others, Charline had asked them *not* to right-click on the desktop, because she was testing access to settings in general. Nevertheless, no-one found System Settings, in the session menu or anywhere else.
<snap-l> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-April/032988.html
<snap-l> Nobody seemed to understand what the Ubuntu button was for, or the distinction between the Dash main screen and the Applications screen.
<rick_h_> lmao "../thought the ubuntu software center was a trash can"
<_stink_> hahaha
<snap-l> Seriously, it's a paper bag
<rick_h_> love this! "(P10 was particularly unlucky in doing ..."
<rick_h_> poor sap
<fdvalero>  lol
<rick_h_> oh man, these are funny. I need to read these more often
<rick_h_> (P2 deserves special mention for finding and launching the game's .desktop file amongst piles of detritus in Nautilus's "File System" search results.)
<rick_h_> ooh, that final one stings a bit
<rick_h_> 5/11 participants (P2, P3, P5, P9, P10, P11) crashed Unity during their hour of testing. And towards the end of her test, P11 opened a zombie quicklist that stayed on top of everything and didn't respond to clicks.
<tjagoda> Mhm
<tjagoda> Unity is awesome
<tjagoda> jcastro: WHAT HAVE YOU ALL DONE
<tjagoda> =P
<wolfger> 13 days til launch!
 * rick_h_ reconsiders my 92% through upgrade now lol
<tjagoda> I like that I'm not the only person saying unity is bad now
<rick_h_> One dichotomy I see between this study group and this discussion is a lack of
<rick_h_> any dedicated Ubuntu users.  I know there's a lot of focus on jumping the
<rick_h_> exactly!
<rick_h_> chasm, but I would have thought it would have been useful to see how an
<rick_h_> experienced user of Ubuntu's version of Gnome managed to transition to Unity.
<tjagoda> previously it was just me and then snap-l would light a paper bag of poop on my porch
<tjagoda> =P
<rick_h_> wow, I can't wait to interview Charline now
<gamerchick02> rick_h_: i've been kind of addressing that on my blog
<rick_h_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-April/032997.html
<rick_h_> dammit, I hate these new browsers with their controls spread across the whole width of their window
<rick_h_> back, forward, stop, reload should all be in the same dippy place
<rick_h_> and stop/reload should be the one button (which most do now)
<tjagoda> rick_h: You can change that in Firefox 4...
<tjagoda> Right Click -> Customize, drag the button
<tjagoda> For instance, back, forward, stop, reload, and home are all right next to each other on the left of my menu
<rick_h_> tjagoda: ah, good to know
<tjagoda> and stop/reload are one button still
<rick_h_> using FF since I pulled chrome out for the upgrade proces
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: linky?
<tjagoda> I love FF4
<gamerchick02> http://gamerchick02.posterous.com
<tjagoda> I have bookmark and preference syncing setup too
<tjagoda> Chrome no longer has any HUGE features which I dont I think
<gamerchick02> some of it is ubuntu goodness, and some of it is podcast babble
<rick_h_> tjagoda: I'm not a fan of the top ui
<rick_h_> and chrome (ime) is still much faster launch/etc
<rick_h_> and when you get things like extension sync, that's a huge +1 for me (and why I just uninstalled it pre-upgrade, a fresh install will sync everything back)
<tjagoda> why would I care about fast launch?
<tjagoda> I never close firefox
<tjagoda> I open it once and leave it up
<tjagoda> Browsing is very snappy now
<wolfger> 4eva
<snap-l> tjagoda: Why do you say I'm sending flaming crap your way?
<snap-l> Unity is growing on me
<snap-l> And it still needs a bunch of polish
<rick_h_> heh, well that went horribly bad
<rick_h_> laptop I think is offically toast
<rick_h_> anyone hit me up with a .iso link to the natty b2 please?
<snap-l> toast as in "needs more jam"?
<rick_h_> toast as in boots to grub and then I get pretty purle screen with nadda
<rick_h_> boot into safe mode, plymouth bombs "unable to locate mountall"
<snap-l> zsync http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/natty-desktop-amd64.iso.zsync
<rick_h_> crap, no copy/paste in cmd-line server mode ugh, this could take a sec
<rick_h_> bah, installing ubuntu desktop on the home file server so can't install zsync right now
<rick_h_> ok, will just be patient
<snap-l> You can get the iso
<snap-l> one sec.
<snap-l> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/natty-desktop-amd64.iso
<tjagoda> rick_h is so going to be in #linuxMint-us-mi or #debian-us-mi by the end of the day
<tjagoda> =P
<wolfger> #gentoo-us-mi
<rick_h_> snap-l: ty, downloading while I wait for the ubuntu-desktop pacakge to finish
<gamerchick02> good luck, rick_h_
<greg-g> yeah, no sounding fun
<rick_h_> heh, no, I'll get it installed. Just need to get a download, usb boot drive made up, do the backup of files I wanted to avoid
<rick_h_> and then do a fresh install vs upgrade
<gamerchick02> I have a bunch of stuff coming down the pipe for my blog: lococast review, Good Game and Good Game SP review, more impressions of ubuntu natty.
<rick_h_> oh well, did I mention I deserve whatever I get for trying to do an upgrade today?
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ i did a upgrade and I get a GLib error when i try to run sudo.
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: awesome!
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: never got that cleared out?
<gamerchick02> nope
<rick_h_> ugh, yea I think fresh is the only way to go
<tjagoda> I have done upgrades since 2009
<gamerchick02> the problem isn't on my netbook, which i did an upgrade from maverick netbook.
<tjagoda> I think my system76 shipped with 9.10
<rick_h_> which I normally do, but I got a bug up my pants today about getting B2 going and upgrading
<tjagoda> maybe even 9.04
<gamerchick02> fresh install of maverick netbook, then upgrade to natty
<tjagoda> netupgraded the whole way baby
<gamerchick02> nice!
<snap-l> gamerchick02: There was only one video game show that I could stand
<rick_h_> tjagoda: must be all your BB magic :P
<snap-l> it was on channel-flip. Name escapes me right now.
<gamerchick02> snap-l: this is Aussie so it's from a different perspective. i really like it.
<tjagoda> I usually wait a few weeks post release before I upgraded
<snap-l> Play:Digital
<gamerchick02> cool.
<snap-l> Most of them are too puerile for my tastes
<gamerchick02> snap-l: http://www.abc.net.au/tv/goodgame/
<gamerchick02> check it out
<gamerchick02> see what you think
<rick_h_> oh heh, looks like after install the paritions on disk moved around on it
<rick_h_> anyone know how to get from uuid to /dev/sda1-5?
<gamerchick02> unfortunately, no, i don't.
<rick_h_> hmm, maybe not. I guess that does check out
<snap-l> gamerchick02: Meh, it's inoffensive. ;)
<gamerchick02> uh, is that a bad thing?
<snap-l> No, that's a good thing
<snap-l> Makes me think that Doctor Who is reviewing games.
<gamerchick02> i like it because it doesn't talk down to me, and it covers more than just FPS and h4rdc0r3 stuff like wow.
<gamerchick02> they have some nice reviews of DS games.
<gamerchick02> GGSP is for the younger set, and i watch it as well
<gamerchick02> they cover some really nice G-PG games. and tell you which ones to avoid.
<Blazeix> rick_h_: you just mean `ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid` ?
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, nvm, it's got some boot problem, but it's not the drives
<rick_h_> screw it, going to go with a fresh install
<rick_h_> downloading arch install now
<snap-l> ruh roh
<rick_h_> along with a natty b2 as a backup I think
<rick_h_> yea, I think this might be the straw beating on the camel
<rick_h_> if the arch install goes through and I can at least use my system shortly...
<rick_h_> only problem is I leave for GR in a few hours...ugh
<gamerchick02> you have 2 computers though... i assume because you're on irc.
<Blazeix> rick_h_: cool, just an fyi that ssh isn't installed ootb, so install openssh if you want to finish set up remotely
<brousch> rick_h_: please do not refer to GR when you mean muskegon. that is like calling ann arbor flint
<rick_h_> lol brousch
<rick_h_> Blazeix: cool, good to know
<rick_h_> yea, I've got a desktop that's running ubuntu server for build.bmark.us and such
<rick_h_> so in terminal 3 on irc
<rick_h_> while 4 is downloading a new iso
<rick_h_> and 2 is doing a desktop install
<rick_h_> but wife's laptop is downloading the iso for recovery stuff
<brousch> ut oh. it's always trouble when you have to get the wife's computer involved in an install
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> easier to make the boot disks I think
<rick_h_> and browsing to find the urls to the isos
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, get ready for questions I guess. I know it's going to be a learning curve, but I think it's time to jump
<rick_h_> feel free to tell me to shove off and goole :)
<Blazeix> rick_h_: sure. This is the best resource: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners%27_Guide
<brousch> will you be changing all of your servers to match your new dev environment?
<rick_h_> ty sir will bookmark once I get chrome/bookie back
<Blazeix> it says "beginners", but there's a lot of arch-specific stuff
<rick_h_> brousch: well, if it works my new desktop at work might turn into an arch install
<rick_h_> I don't think I'll be changing wife/build server for now since I just got the thing running
<rick_h_> we'll see, I'm not 100% arch will work for everything yet
<rick_h_> sound I'm worried about tbh
<rick_h_> but sound scares me in any linux
<brousch> there's always osx and virtualbox waiting for you
<gamerchick02> wow, you're really using all your computing power.
<snap-l> brousch: Do you normally kick people when they're down? :)
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, use vbox for windows stuff, but I've never had great luck mapping devices through an OS it didn't work with to a virtual machine
<Blazeix> yeah, you'll definitely become intimately familiar with what your system is doing, since you have to set it up from scratch :)
<Blazeix> the wiki is super useful though
<gamerchick02> i'm not elite enough to work with Arch. i dunno. seems like a lot of work.
<rick_h_> heh, ubuntu has gotten to be so much work for me these days
<Blazeix> It can be a pain if you want the whole gnome ecosystem
<Blazeix> most people just have simple window managers, though
<Blazeix> Though i do use nautilus, because it's so damn convenient.
<rick_h_> thunar
<gamerchick02> i, uh, guess i don't customize my computer that much?
<gamerchick02> i'm using a straight install of natty though.
<brousch> snap-l: it's easier to kick them when they're down. i don't have to lift my leg so high.
<Blazeix> rick_h_: have you used thunar's recent gvfs stuff? I'm considering moving back to it for that.
<Blazeix> gvfs was the main reason I switched from thunar to nautilus
<rick_h_> gvfs?
<rick_h_> I only use the automount perl script
<Blazeix> browsing ftp/smb by just navigating to it.
<rick_h_> ah, nope
<rick_h_> I don't use that
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ is the move to arch to avoid Unity? (curious)
<rick_h_> I've avoided unity for a couple of years now
<rick_h_> I don't run gnome
<gamerchick02> ah, ok.
<rick_h_> zsh, awesomeWM, don't use gwibber, oo2, etc
<rick_h_> so first thing I do is change all the ootb settings anyway
<gamerchick02> oooh. so it makes sense for you to move to something else.
<gamerchick02> what about going with something like Crunchbang?
<rick_h_> thought about it, but it's a side thing. It's very dependant on ubuntu, etc
<gamerchick02> it's based on Debian now.
<rick_h_> ah, that's right, forgot they moved over
<gamerchick02> yep.
<gamerchick02> might be worth looking into.
<ColonelPanic001> gamerchick02: I saw in the news recently - I'm sorry for your loss.
<ColonelPanic001> You and the two other people that use Flock will have to switch to Firefox or Opera or something.
<ColonelPanic001> :P
<gamerchick02> i've long since switched to Chrome, as Flock wasn't available for ubuntu.
<gamerchick02> it was good while it lasted.
<gamerchick02> when they were bought by Zynga, i figured they'd be shutting down pretty soon.
<gamerchick02> :(
<gamerchick02> Opera? really? :-P
<snap-l> Flock was the social media browser, right?
<snap-l> THat seemed rather...um, what's the word... stupid?
<gamerchick02> yes, it was, snap-l
<gamerchick02> it's not really stupid. they had a nice integrated blog poster, and an easy way to post stuff to digg and whatnot
<ColonelPanic001> It had some neat/interesting stuff
<ColonelPanic001> just not something I'd use much
<ColonelPanic001> I tried it out now and then
<snap-l> gamerchick02: But it essentially was Firefox with a bunch of plugins for tossing content
<gamerchick02> but, all that can be done through extensions in both chrome and firefox now
<ColonelPanic001> yes.
 * snap-l never checked it out
<gamerchick02> yes, it was.
<gamerchick02> then it was based on Chromium for awhile, and they didn't release it for anything but Windows.
<gamerchick02> that was one of it's downfalls. i think they had the most vocal users from linux and mac platforms
<snap-l> Well, anything by Zynga isi suspect IMHO
<snap-l> They're about as beloved to me as Six Apart.
<gamerchick02> oi. yeah
<ColonelPanic001> I didn't know flock was anything but FF based
<ColonelPanic001> interestin'
<gamerchick02> i've blocked everything by Zynga on facebook
<ColonelPanic001> I just disabled apps.
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<snap-l> I just disabled Facebook.
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> ;)
<ColonelPanic001> I'll somehow get by without knowing which sitcom character I'm most like
<gamerchick02> XYZ wants you to trade with them in CittyDoucheVille, will you accept?
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<ColonelPanic001> exactly
<gamerchick02> NO. *smacks facebook*
<ColonelPanic001> I forget those games exist, usually
<gamerchick02> me too.
<snap-l> Unless someone is planning a raid in my pants, I'm not interested.
<gamerchick02> i've hidden most of them
<gamerchick02> in your pants?
<gamerchick02> *dumps ants in snap-l's pants* he he
 * gamerchick02 runs away
<ColonelPanic001> she hid most of them in snap-l's pants.
<snap-l> I just remember a bunch of folks planning shiit in Mafia wars
<snap-l> bah
<gamerchick02> oh, i forgot about that game
<gamerchick02> it hit myspace too.
<gamerchick02> and twitter. i had to unfollow some people because that shit was taking over my timeline
<ColonelPanic001> myspace hasn't died yet?
<gamerchick02> no. it's now a music network
<snap-l> Not for lack of trying
<ColonelPanic001> I laugh every time I think of how much News Corp spent on that, and when.
<ColonelPanic001> practically the next day, it nosedived more than it alreayd had been
<tjagoda> Hahahahahahaha
<gamerchick02> yeah.
<tjagoda> Rupert Murdock lolz
<ColonelPanic001> serves them f'ing right.
<gamerchick02> they thought they were getting something good
<ColonelPanic001> because they were f'ing stupid
<gamerchick02> "when old media tries new media"
<gamerchick02> i see a headline.
<gamerchick02> :-P
<snap-l> Well, to be fair, they could have made some $$ off of MySpace
<ColonelPanic001> I'm still convinced myshit was written by one drunken guy on a napkin while still at the bar.
<gamerchick02> yes, but they didn't
<snap-l> unfortunately, it was approximately 1 year before they bought it
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<tjagoda> I remember myspace
<tjagoda> back when I thought facebook was strange
<ColonelPanic001> "oh look, a f'ing terrible site known for being terrible, already on a steady decline. Let's buy it and make some money!"
<gamerchick02> i think it was! "duuuuude, i bet i can get assholes to cough up allll their info on the web..." *hic*
<snap-l> There's still bands that have myspace pages
<snap-l> but most of them have moved on to Facebook
<tjagoda> Tons of bands on myspace
<gamerchick02> yeah. i'd rather check them on bandcamp
<tjagoda> It's clearly the internet's premier music space
<tjagoda> duh
<gamerchick02> at least i can actually GET their music off bandcamp
<tjagoda> Might as well call it..
<tjagoda> Musicspace..
<tjagoda> =P
<gamerchick02> how do you download off of myspace?
<snap-l> tjagoda: Right, just like Harpo's.
<tjagoda> Why would you want to download, when you can stream and LOOK AT THEIR PRETTY ADS?
<snap-l> http://www.harposconcerttheatre.com/
<gamerchick02> because i don't want a seizure?
<gamerchick02> nice, snap-l
<tjagoda> But
<tjagoda> You'd never have seen this trailer for fast five which is on their homepage
<gamerchick02> is this all metal, snap-l?
<snap-l> Their primary focus is metal, yes.
<tjagoda> Or that "SUkk ittt HOe" is featured on the browse page next to "Jugalette Misti"
<snap-l> Used to be mostly hair metal bands
<snap-l> Myspace pages are usually half-good
<snap-l> Top half: Info about the band, some samples
<tjagoda> I've always been stlightly terrified by the metal genre
<snap-l> bottom half: 500 PG-13 avatars of people saying "Tanks4 teh 4DD, d00000dz"
<tjagoda> The whole satanist-style-cool thing weirds me out a bit
<snap-l> tjagoda: You don't liksten to the right music
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com
<tjagoda> I don't really like much music either
<tjagoda> I'm a classical sort of fellow
<snap-l> Turn up your speakers loud when you play it. :)
<snap-l> At least check out the instrumetalcast.
<gamerchick02> sorry about that. not sure what happened there
<gamerchick02> i've been listening to the metalcast a bit.
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2011/03/25/open-metalcast-instrumetalcast-2-groovy-djent/
<gamerchick02> thanks, snap-l
<snap-l> I'm hoping to have an interview with Cloudkicker coming up soon
<snap-l> Really looking forward to that interview.
<snap-l> http://cloudkicker.bandcamp.com/album/beacons
<gamerchick02> cool
<gamerchick02> wow. i really like bandcamp
<tjagoda> I am not a fan of the "play it loud" genre
<tjagoda> =(
<gamerchick02> http://blackbirdblackbird.bandcamp.com/ this is what i've been listening to recently
<gamerchick02> call me a hipster if you want, but i like this stuff.
<tjagoda> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fziTZ3m-khE is as close as I get to metal
<tjagoda> <3 the Germans
<gamerchick02> this is kind of like industrial. interesting.
<ColonelPanic001> at work/lazy - what is it?
<snap-l> tjagoda: Ahh, a Nitzer Ebb fan. ;)
<ColonelPanic001> ah
<gamerchick02> colenelpanic001, are you talking about blackbird blackbird?
<snap-l> tjagoda: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0HsjYtdAKM
<ColonelPanic001> heard of them, never got around to investigating them
<gamerchick02> blackbird blackbird is like... floaty.
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: tjagoda's was PanzerMensch
<tjagoda> Indeed it was
<tjagoda> Which is superior to this Nitzer thus far
<snap-l> Mine was Nitzer Ebb
<tjagoda> Too much downtime
<tjagoda> I get bored when it's all electronic for long periods with no lyric =(
<snap-l> Then try some Front 242 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJayfIt7kWo
<gamerchick02> i like some all electro music
<snap-l> tjagoda: Por Vous: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeWBD7zHG8o
<ColonelPanic001> for electronic stuff, I like Combichrist, Covenant, etc, too
<tjagoda> None of this has so far beaten my beloved Panzermensch
<tjagoda> I dislike the literal screaming
<tjagoda> snap-l is on a mission though
<jrwren> Nitzer Ebb IS industrial. I'd include them as a defining group :)
<tjagoda> He is determined to find something.
<tjagoda> =P
<jrwren> oh... And One - Pnazermench, LOLz.
<jrwren> i saw them years ago.
<jrwren> most And One songs are pretty shitty.
<snap-l> tjagoda: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQShIPWPg_Y
<jrwren> but Panzermensch is pretty fun
<gamerchick02> what the hell is wrong with people?
<gamerchick02> i don't like being attacked for what I use
<jrwren> what you mean?
<jrwren> attacked?
<jrwren> well, if you are using crack, other crackheads might attack you.
<gamerchick02> i was in #crunchbang and some little asshole is like "ur a nub. lol a gurl in irc? wut?"
<jrwren> rofl.
<gamerchick02> stupid asshat.
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: meh, there's a large number of these things out there 'idiots' they're called.
<jrwren> join #crunchbang
<rick_h_> basically /ignore
<jrwren> oops
<rick_h_> lol
<gamerchick02> i can ignore little fuckheads like that?
<tjagoda> I didn't even know what crunchbang was until you just mentioned it
<jrwren> gamerchick02: yeah, don't let fools like that speak for our gender and I won't let sarah palin speak for yours :)
<gamerchick02> like in IRC?
<gamerchick02> thank you, jwren
<gamerchick02> jrwren, i mean. dangit
<rick_h_> jrwren: awesome reference
<jrwren> yeah, me too, I've never heard of crunchbang
<gamerchick02> Palin is a fuckwit
<snap-l> tjagoda: OK, this song will rip the doors off of PanzerMensch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS-gGYaA8F0
<jrwren> i like how the topic says http://crunchbanglinux.org/wiki/irc_rules.
<jrwren> and rule #1 says something to the effect of "don't be sexist"
<gamerchick02> well, the dude who runs it must not be in there
<jrwren> oh fuck yeah, some puppy in the house.
<snap-l> That's one of my top ten puppy songs
<jrwren> warlock, killing game...
<snap-l> Candle
<gamerchick02> i like corenomial
<snap-l> Testure
<snap-l> Assimilate
<ColonelPanic001> did I miss some Palin-bashing?
<gamerchick02> he's really cool, but he must not moderate the irc room
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Nope, was just a passing reference.
<jrwren> the pro-test video is just too fun
<ColonelPanic001> :\
<snap-l> What I loved was I saw it at a Best Buy one time in the checkout line
<gamerchick02> a CD of them?
<tjagoda> crunchbang is a channel full of people who want to be ubuntu
<snap-l> No, the video
<tjagoda> but were rejected
<jrwren> i should get back into breakin'
<snap-l> gamerchick02: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS-gGYaA8F0
<jrwren> they have TVs in the checkout line?
<snap-l> yeah, overhead
<gamerchick02> thanks, snap-l
<ColonelPanic001> never heard of crunchbag
<gamerchick02> tjagoda, i don't think the irc is moderated the way the forums are
<ColonelPanic001> sounds like potato chip enthusists
<snap-l> Oh, hell, and Tin Omen, Chainsaw
<rick_h_> man, even esata isn't fast enough, need an external ssd :/
<gamerchick02> it's a debian based openbox distro
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIyL8ti3SME <- Tin Omen
<rick_h_> yea, was an ubuntu one initially
<jrwren> openbox ubuntu :)
<rick_h_> checked it out a little bit when I went traveling through window managers
<gamerchick02> it was
<jrwren> i ran openbox back in 1999
<jrwren> but only for a few months.
<rick_h_> heh, openbox led me on my tiling crusade
<snap-l> I'm amazed how many lyrics I've misheard of Skinny Puppy. ;)
<jrwren> smothered hope!
<snap-l> At least this has the subtitles of the lyrics.
<snap-l> Oh, hell yes.
<jrwren> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUS3PJ2PtpI
<jrwren> I think chanting "smothered hope" is more fun than shouting panzermench
<tjagoda> I have executed ColonelPanic's recommended trolling in #crunchbang
<gamerchick02> i guess i'm not in the mood to deal with twerps who are out to argue.
<gamerchick02> troll away
<gamerchick02> v43 or something was the little asshole's name
<ColonelPanic001> wat
<ColonelPanic001> I didn't recommend trolling anyone
<ColonelPanic001> I don't oppose it either...
 * ColonelPanic001 denies everything
<gamerchick02> if you want to go ahead. i'm not in the mood to deal with kids.
<tjagoda> I'm trolling their dumb name
<tjagoda> but they don't seem to feel very trolled
<gamerchick02> no, he's a little dickhead
<gamerchick02> "i'm better than you, you use ubuntu, you're a nub"
<ColonelPanic001> meh. they happen. It's the internets. Not worth worrying about
<snap-l> tjagoda: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WprVzlwP-GY
<jrwren> haha... they look so young (and alive in dwane's case) in the smothered hope video
<gamerchick02> someone called my name in the channel, i responded and was hoping for nice conversation. i got a little asshat claiming that i don't exist because i'm female on the internet and in irc.
<ColonelPanic001> ages old (bad, outdated) joke
<ColonelPanic001> not worth worrying about
<gamerchick02> that's what i like about this room. i feel welcome in here.
<gamerchick02> i feel welcome in linuxoutlaws too.
<ColonelPanic001> actually, as soon as you leave, we all talk about you.
 * ColonelPanic001 ducks
<gamerchick02> LOL, i'm sure.
<ColonelPanic001> "psst.. you guys... she uses FLOCK! lolz!"
<gamerchick02> "is she really a lady?" "does she even exist?" "is she a robot?"
<gamerchick02> i use chrome/ium, lolz. ;)
<snap-l> You should run eliza as a bot in that channel
<gamerchick02> but i do feel welcome in here
<gamerchick02> i decided to just not go in the channel anymore.
<gamerchick02> i left and probably won't be back for awhile.
<ColonelPanic001> best way to defeat a childish troll.
<ColonelPanic001> just ignore them, or leave
<snap-l> Hello, I am Eliza
<ColonelPanic001> a 3 second joke on their part followed by a 30 minute bit of frustration from the receiver just is lopsided.
<jrwren> flock? the dead browser?
<ColonelPanic001> flock
<gamerchick02> oh, i'm sure they're talking about me. "she left. she's a child. haha can't take a little joke, typical woman"
<snap-l> Don't you ever say Hello?
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: Hello!
<snap-l> How are you today.. What would you like to discuss?
<gamerchick02> snap-l cheese.
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: strings
<tjagoda> I would like to discuss pasta.
<snap-l> Tell me more...
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: pasta is delicious
 * ColonelPanic001 is a Pastafarian
<snap-l> Come, come, elucidate your thoughts.
<tjagoda> Pastafarian
<tjagoda> lulz
<gamerchick02> cheese is delicious!
<snap-l> That is quite interesting
<tjagoda> What sort of hat would a Pastafarian adopt?
<snap-l> Come, come, elucidate your thoughts.
<snap-l> What do you think?
<ColonelPanic001> tjagoda: a colander, of course
<snap-l> http://www.manifestation.com/neurotoys/eliza.php3
<gamerchick02> hey, i can combine my love for cheese and pasta, by putting the cheese ON the pasta! we have epic deliciousness here, people!
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxuZ-zcL3E0
<tjagoda> I did not know what a colander actually was
<gamerchick02> you didn't?
<jrwren> that skinny puppy was a nice diversion... back to Code64
<snap-l> It's that think you put pasta appointments in
<gamerchick02> i'm listening to oldies on the radio.
<gamerchick02> LOL, snap-l
<ColonelPanic001> tjagoda: I learned via FSM
<ColonelPanic001> before that, I called it a strainer/drainer/whatever
<tjagoda> FSM?
<ColonelPanic001> FSM!
<tjagoda> Yes
<snap-l> FML!
<tjagoda> FSM>
<gamerchick02> flying spaghetti monster!
<ColonelPanic001> tjagoda: you know not of this noodlelyness?
<jrwren> fagot shit monthly
<tjagoda> Negative
<ColonelPanic001> jrwren: stay out of my subscriptions
<gamerchick02> he touched me with his noodley appendage!
<jrwren> lol
<ColonelPanic001> gamerchick02: I did not.
<ColonelPanic001> That was something else.
<gamerchick02> wait. that sounds soooo wrong.
<gamerchick02> oops.
<ColonelPanic001> tjagoda: http://www.venganza.org/
<tjagoda> xD
 * gamerchick02 laughs til she cries
<tjagoda> Ahh
<tjagoda> I argued with the dick in crunchbang
<tjagoda> called him elitist
<gamerchick02> nice. what'd he have to say?
<tjagoda> and then linked to that site and left
<tjagoda> =P
<gamerchick02> nice!
<rick_h_> arch installing
<tjagoda> Pastafarian
<rick_h_> go go go
<tjagoda> That's going to have me giggling for ages
<tjagoda> Rick_h betrays us! </3
<snap-l> It's just a phase
<tjagoda> http://save-our-sperm.org/
<tjagoda> Hope none of you are strongly anti-abortion
<tjagoda> =P
<gamerchick02> you know, rick_h_ said that arch was installing and then you said Pastafarian, tjagoda, and i read it as "Arch Installing Pastafarian"
<jrwren> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FMyy2Ty-Lc
<tjagoda> omg
<tjagoda> PASTAFARIAN LINUX
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<jrwren> i'm pro abortion.
<tjagoda> and pasta-linux.com is available.
<gamerchick02> \o/
<jrwren> not just pro choice. i'm pro abortion
<gamerchick02> does it come with a plate of spaghetti?
<tjagoda> We will sell linux-powered pasta cookers.
<gamerchick02> i'm pro-choice.
<gamerchick02> *shrug* the government should stay out of my pants.
<tjagoda> If it's outlawed, we can always hit you with a bat like the teenagers do it
<jrwren> and the church should stay out of mine.
<gamerchick02> lol, jrwren
<snap-l> I'm pro-baseball bats
<ColonelPanic001> I don't like abortion at all, I just don't like the government dictating medical matters
<ColonelPanic001> and, it tends to be simplistic
<tjagoda> Well
<jrwren> tjagoda: we can do better than that. coathanger up the baby hole
<tjagoda> nobody should LIKE abortion
<ColonelPanic001> instead of outlawing abortion, promote sex education and contraception
<jrwren> why the fuck not?
<jrwren> I LOVE abortion.
<tjagoda> And you're a troll
<ColonelPanic001> tjagoda: I'd love abortion, if it's extended to adults of my choosing ;D
<tjagoda> nobody cares
<tjagoda> =P
<jrwren> thank fucking jesus for abortion.
<rick_h_> really? this is the topic of the day?
<tjagoda> ...
<tjagoda> I didn't do it
<tjagoda> >>
<gamerchick02> i thought the topic of the day was you switching to Arch, rick_h_ ;)
<jrwren> if god didn't love abortion she wouldn't have created it.
<tjagoda> WHY IS THIS CHANNEL LOGGED
<ColonelPanic001> you're right, rick_h_
<tjagoda> DAMNIT GREG-G
<jrwren> rofl.
<ColonelPanic001> Let's talk about seatbelts
<ColonelPanic001> that's everyone's favorite
<tjagoda> xD
<gamerchick02> :)
<jrwren> i love that rick left :(
<gamerchick02> oh, charlie chaplin is on google today
<greg-g> oops?
<tjagoda> Remember when I said "I hope nobody is anti-abortion?"
<gamerchick02> http://www.google.com/
<tjagoda> I think Rick is
<tjagoda> =P
<jrwren> have you seen his kids? they are super cute.
<gamerchick02> i'm anti-jerkface.
<greg-g> honestly, the only reason I thought it would be cool to log the channel was for automatic meeting logs on the LocoDirectory (it does this for you if you tell it when a meeting started and stopped)
<_stink_> yeah, Big Brother
<tjagoda> mhm
<jrwren> lets make aborbuntu
<tjagoda> Not fooling us with that shit
<ColonelPanic001> if you're on IRC, it's safe to assume *someone* in the channel is logging
<jrwren> that is very true.
<ColonelPanic001> log all you want
<tjagoda> Although
<greg-g> do I need to read the scroll back and smooth anything out, here?
<tjagoda> This is just going to make more noise for people who google for my name
<_stink_> no.
<tjagoda> =P
<ColonelPanic001> greg-g: NO DON'T LOOK
<_stink_> jrwren: is being a sillypants.
<greg-g> :P
<tjagoda> We may have also trolled another Distro while you weren't looking
<jrwren> HEY!  That is Mr. stupid insane-o silly pants
<ColonelPanic001> jrwren: don't get pompus with your titles.
 * greg-g ignores and goes back to work
<tjagoda> The rightly honorable Lord silly pants
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: ROFL
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: that was awesome.
<gamerchick02> sillypants. i like that
<gamerchick02> MAH PANTS ARE SILLEH!!
<tjagoda> ROFL what?
<gamerchick02> he the son of King Sillypants?
<tjagoda> The honorable dynasty of Sillypants
<ColonelPanic001> this is /b/ hour of #ubuntu-us-mi
<snap-l> Holy crap... I was thinking of putting together a CD of the Open Metalcast episodes to hand out at Penguicon
<snap-l> but it's 2.3GB
<ColonelPanic001> haha
<gamerchick02> wow.
<tjagoda> Make a blu-ray
<tjagoda> That's open, right?
<snap-l> I can make a DVD just the same, but damn
<ColonelPanic001> maybe something to toss a USB drive into and copy to it?
<tjagoda> You can call it "The Glory Hole"
<tjagoda> =P
<jrwren> ZOMG
<ColonelPanic001> yes
<tjagoda> That would be kind of amusing actually
<gamerchick02> http://www.csmonitor.com/Innovation/Horizons/2011/0415/Charlie-Chaplin-s-122nd-birthday-celebrated-with-special-Google-doodle
<tjagoda> Random machine with a USB port called the glory hole
<gamerchick02> LOL
<tjagoda> transfering random things to your USB device
<gamerchick02> this is the /b/ hour of the ubuntu-us-mi channel
<ColonelPanic001> tjagoda: I'd do it
<tjagoda> MAKE IT SO!
<ColonelPanic001> tjagoda: it copies files off your drive, stores them, then from all the stored file sit randomly selects one, copies over, repeats until full.
<tjagoda> "Guess you shouldn't have left your tax return on that flash drive!"
<tjagoda> =P
<ColonelPanic001> or worse.
<tjagoda> "Every flash drive in this hotel is injected with the Blaster worm."
<tjagoda> Disease like a real glory hole!
<ColonelPanic001> tjagoda: get to it
<ColonelPanic001> it must be done
<tjagoda> Would be kind of cool to have something that either randomly erases the drive, or puts a neat quote or video clip
<tjagoda> or a puzzle
<tjagoda> a puzzle would be epic
<ColonelPanic001> maybe at random, it just reformats the drive and leaves it empty
<tjagoda> lulz
<tjagoda> If I had the technical skill to create this and have it look good before penguicon I would
<snap-l> Hmm, 30 discs replicated with paper sleeves for $100
<tjagoda> What would be really epic
<tjagoda> is if it grabbed random 4chan images
<tjagoda> =P
<Team-Xlink> LOL
<gamerchick02> snap-l is this going to be an audio CD?
<gamerchick02> or an MP3 CD?
<snap-l> God no
<snap-l> MP3 / OGG
<gamerchick02> ah
<snap-l> at least, it's an idle thought
<gamerchick02> it's a neat idea, but you may want to pick your best episode and burn it so people can listen to it in their car on the way home.
<ColonelPanic001> tjagoda: nah, I like the idea of randomly trading around their own files. Everything there was someone else's at the con
<tjagoda> I would have to at least put a warning on it then
<tjagoda> "Beware what you put into the glory hole, someone else might get it" or so on
<TeamXlink> Whos going to be the unlucky one who traded with someone and recieved terrorist attack plans?
<ColonelPanic001> tjagoda
<tjagoda> 100% fact
<tjagoda> It would get full of something illegal so fast
<tjagoda> Be a warez and illegal porn hub in minutes I bet
<TeamXlink> Good thing this isn't windows-con if it was it would be a virus spreaders dream.
<snap-l>   Merlin Mann (22 minutes ago from web)
<snap-l> SEO: An industry based on yelling "NEW JERSEY!"âthen hoping someone mistakes you for Bruce Springsteen. For a second.
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<jrwren> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkCqc3NApc4
<TeamXlink> Most Windows users get viruses because there not that smart, thats why there still running windows. Linux users are smart, they only get hacked.
<snap-l> OK, going AFK so I can claim something useful was done today.
<tjagoda> lulz
<gamerchick02> lol
<TeamXlink> Haha
 * krondor reads the scrollback... yeah it's friday isn't it?
<tjagoda> NO
 * greg-g slightly read scroll back
<greg-g> Just set up one of these, snap-l http://wiki.daviddarts.com/PirateBox
<greg-g> actually, that'd be awesome for PC
<tjagoda> oh wow
<tjagoda> that would be
<tjagoda> I need to build one
<tjagoda> oh
<tjagoda> it uses a dockstar
<tjagoda> cool
<greg-g> call it PenguinBox
<greg-g> PenguiBox
<snap-l> Um, does this strike anyone else as a quick way to make an otherwise $50 book into an extremely expensive book? http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780240809748
<snap-l> greg-g: nice
<brousch> i've gotten more accomplished in 2 hours than this consultant has in 2 weeks. i feel like rick_h_
<brousch> wait a minute. that didn't autocomplete. omg, where's rick_h_?!
<_stink_> the earlier topic scared him off
<brousch> the glory hole?
<ColonelPanic001> seatbelts
<brousch> glory hole: run long usb cables to different rooms. people plug in a usb dongle, when someone else plugs in, 1 file is exchanged between them.
<ColonelPanic001> also amusing
<ColonelPanic001> good idea
<ColonelPanic001> do it
<brousch> pointless
<brousch> it will be all pictures of genitalia exchanged at pcon
<brousch> by the end everyone will have 100 copies of goatse.cx guy
<snap-l> http://mmnml.tumblr.com/post/4638952719/mnmlst-dsk
<greg-g> snap-l: wait a second, I can purchase the copyright page for that book for $32?
<greg-g> and the effing index is $32?
<snap-l> Yeah, or I could buy the kindle version for less
<snap-l> Pretty stupid.
<snap-l> http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?571153-Have-you-ever-bought-anything-based-on-freebies&p=13784168#post13784168
<snap-l> greg-g: ^^
<snap-l> It's a bulletted list of why Eclipse Phase was released as Creative Commons.
<greg-g> huh
<greg-g> coolio
<snap-l> Yeah, pretty pragmatic view
<snap-l> http://www.eclipsephase.com/posthuman-2010-year-end-review
<fdvalero> #ubuntu
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-16
<fdvalero> //
<brousch> ??
<slestak> good morning
<slestak> anyone up yet?
<jjesse> yes
<slestak> is the usb-creator.exe on beta2 a known issue?
<slestak> i can select the iso, and the usb stick, but the Make Startup Disk button is not selectable
<slestak> going to try formatting the usb stick
<jjesse> no idea
<jjesse> i actually burned a dvd this time
<jjesse> think i'm going to reload my win7 to ubuntu
<slestak> i know i can use unetbootin and whatnot.  trying to use purely what came from ubuntu and its docs
<slestak> my debmint crapped the bed today, so im trying beta2
<slestak> kernel panic
<jjesse> my one tie up right now is gotomeeting
<slestak> will gtm work in a vm?
<jjesse> hopefully
<jjesse> rebooting to begin the install and try it out
<snap-l> Good morning
<slestak> intresting experience with beta 2 install this am
<slestak> i preserved my homedir (liek I do alot) and replaced debmint on anohter partition and the resulting natty isont functional
<slestak> is not*
<slestak> ive booted back to the live media to see what i can salvage
<slestak> gonna head to #ubuntu+1
<brousch> probably a gnome settings issue
<slestak> i bet
<slestak> i think it might be perms
<slestak> i dont know if I have write permisions to my homedir
<slestak> it is listed at user 1000
<slestak> which according to the new /etc/passwd, the new user steve is also user 1000
<slestak> ive backed everything up
<slestak> i might delete every hidden folder in ~ and see if unity will recreate what it needs.
<slestak> should, based on teh fact you can create a new user at any moment that will have an empty homedir
<slestak> gonna reboot, brb
<slestak> hrm, no joy
<snap-l> That's very strange.
<greg-g> if I accidentally drag a tab out of a gnome-terminal window and it creates a separate new window, how do I put it back in that original group of tabs?
<_stink_> greg-g: i *think* you can create a new tab inthe window that was created when you dragged it off to show the tab bar
<_stink_> then drag the tab you want back onto the original window's tab bar
<_stink_> then close the spare tab in the new window
<greg-g> aha!
<greg-g> maybe! good idea
<greg-g> oh that _stink_, always with the good ideas (it worked)
<slestak> got a real problem this afternoon on my bigger inspiron
<slestak> with ubiquity
<_stink_> greg-g: coolio
<slestak> was talking with lcb in #ubuntu+1
<slestak> I am on my 5 install today, the first did not exhibit this problem, all since then have so I wounder if there something cached in the usb persistent file sys
<greg-g> slestak: I just read the scrollback of what is in here, sounds not fun. I haven't dealt with multi-linux-os installs on the same machine in a looong time so I don't have any crazy ideas for you :/
<slestak> it is http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1453020 problem
<slestak> the fella i was talkign to was basically saying this is not a problem, that reinstalls are valid on empty media, I i called bunk.
<slestak> if i have an empty partition or two, i should be able to install anywhere (within reason.)  10.04 was installed here, replaced by mint debian, now trying to put natty on here
<slestak> with 2 formatted partitions, the install should be cake
<slestak> does anyone know how to wipe out the persistent seciotn of the usb install media?
<greg-g> no clue, other than blowing the whole usb clean
<slestak> syslog is saying it cannot mount /target
<slestak> it has something to  do with ubiquity and reinstalls
<jjesse> afternoon :)
<greg-g> slestak: can you try to see what the reproducible parts are and create a bug report?
<greg-g> attaching all relevant logs, of course
<greg-g> you seem to know your way around at least part of the system, so someone with your knowledge is good for bug reports with these issues
<greg-g> heya jjesse :)
<jjesse> slestak:  still trying to use the usb creator
<jjesse> hello greg-g
<slestak> i think i see what is occuring
<slestak> I am using the 3rd option to choose my own partitons
<slestak> jjesse: no, usbcreator never worked for me.  i had to use unetbottin
<slestak> on reinstall, when using partman, after you choose Forward, it starts formatting and copy files while you are setting keyboard and timezone
<jjesse> slestak:  ah bummer
<slestak> after choosing timezone, it DOES NOT have the last window we used to have to promtp for user name
<jjesse> reloaded my laptop got ready to build my vm of windows 7 and released i left my windows 7 iso at home
<jjesse> yay for having a backup iso in the cloud
<slestak> then it fails with error 10, gived me the option to continue anyway and then is stuck in a modal error "The user you selected is invalid"
<slestak> that is the problem, when reinstalling using partman, it DOES NOT ask you to define your user.  On the first install it did
<slestak> i need to run, got to get some stuff for my daughter.
<slestak> bbl
<slestak> i am hesitant to file a bug, when if comes from a mortal, it is one of thousands
<slestak> when it comes from a loco leader, it moves :(
<slestak> i will file it, but that is what i think will occur
<jjesse> umm maybe subscrbe people or post here so we can +1
<greg-g> slestak: good bug reports move, no matter who they are from
<slestak> kk
<slestak> kk
<slestak> good points both
<slestak> bbl, i am late
<greg-g> people who see hundreds of bug a day are happy when they see one with good details/information so they can work on it
<greg-g> later!
<greg-g> snap-l: I'm glad we think the same regarding sparkles and spandex :)
<jjesse> if i need the java plugin in my browser (chrome) what package do i install?
<greg-g> doesn't chrome come bundled with binaries of everything?
<jjesse> umm no idea need to use a website that requires java nad tells me the plugin is not installed
<jjesse> installed icedtea-plugin
<jjesse> or installing
<greg-g> jjesse: did that work?
<jjesse> don't know, getting a message that things were actively refused
<jjesse> though not prompted for java
<jjesse> might need a restart of chrome but don't want to kill my download
<jjesse> @ in-laws and they are having problems w/ the intertubes
<greg-g> lovely
<jjesse> yeah well at least they have internet, about a year ago they were still on dial-up
<slestak> hola, back
<slestak> dang walmart sucks the life outta me
<snap-l> Record Store Day = supported.
<slestak> team, my ubiquity issue is 763155
<slestak> bug 763155
<slestak> greg-g: are you greg_g on lp?
<greg-g> greg.grossmeier
<slestak> subbing you to my bug
<greg-g> cool
<slestak> im kinda stuck here now.  the install toasted my grub, so bleh
<slestak> i feel my other partitions are ok, i just need to fix grub
<slestak> can I so an apt-get update and upgrade to see if ubiquity has been patched since beta2
<greg-g> ruh roh: https://identi.ca/conversation/68886640 (see where they bring in Jane Silber and what she said at a GNOME advisory board meeting)
<snap-l> Honestly, I think Harmony should just go away
<snap-l> seriously, people are taking this stuff way too seriously
<greg-g> well, I may be biased (given my day job) but I think copyright issues are pretty serious
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-17
<snap-l> They are, but the amount of whining is intolerable
<greg-g> I don't believe it is whining
<greg-g> I think it is real concerns when a company requires copyright *transfer* (not just a non-exclusive license) for your work so that they could produce a proprietary version. The rhetoric from the companies is pathetic compared to the real concerns of the volunteer developers'.
<snap-l> Then don't contribute
<greg-g> "trust us" is not an answer
<greg-g> snap-l: exactly, and that is exactly what the companies are saying to the community
<snap-l> somewhere in there is a compromise.
<greg-g> that is why we have LibreOffice
<greg-g> when the companies are saying, implicitly, "don't contribute here" but then on the other hand say "yay, we're a community/open-source project! We're cool!" that is a *tad* disingenuous.
<snap-l> its' funny, but the more you tell people they're not welcome, the more they don't come around anymore
<snap-l> and the more they tell their friends
<snap-l> it's weird how that works
<greg-g> :) true, so, guess what will happen to Unity?
<greg-g> that's more of a statement/command than a question, I guess.
<snap-l> Well, if it turns out that Haromony, Unity, and Community are just bullshit buzzwords, then we'll have some soul searching to do
<snap-l> on whether we want to be a part of any of the above.
<greg-g> interesting way to group/phrase that.
 * greg-g would love to take the time to write a blog post about this :/
<snap-l> I'm not close enough to it to make anything intelligent
<snap-l> all I see are the results
<jjesse> doesn't harmony fly in the face of everything JOno wrote in his book?
<snap-l> jjesse: It's starting to make me think that the hardcopy is going up on Amazon soon
<jjesse> i think i got a free soft copy someplace
<snap-l> And there it goes.
<greg-g> jjesse: I don't know if he even addresses copyright assignment/licensing agreements
<snap-l> It mostly talks about Creative Commons
<snap-l> Earlier I went into detail about why openness and transparency are important in volunteer
<snap-l> communities. Dictatorial communities are something of an antithesis to this approach,
<snap-l> and their leaders always face the risk of not being representative of the views of the wider
<snap-l> community.
<snap-l> -- Jono Bacon
<greg-g> yeah, kind of related but not directly
<snap-l> Yeah, sort of
<snap-l> Have to say, I'm very disappointed with how I've perceived Canonical operating this cycle
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> Seriously, if they prove Bradley Kuhn right, I'll be _pissed off_
<greg-g> lol
<jjesse> who is bradley kuhn?
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/bkuhn
<snap-l> http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1529.html
<rick_h_> howdy, back to civilization (well computer)
<rick_h_> did I miss anything while I was away?
<greg-g> welcome back, rick_h_
<greg-g> not a ton, just the implosion of the ubuntu community
<rick_h_> oh yea? cool
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> Blazeix: crap, have things a bit prettier on arch, but even with the .38 kernel no dual monitor setup for me :(
<rick_h_> Blazeix: what's the equiv of a -dev package for arch?
<greg-g> oh man, first my buddy Pete from Minneapolis, now you. That Arch stuff :/
<greg-g> ;)
<rick_h_> yea, I'm going to get some nixternal love later I'm sure
<nixternal> huh
<nixternal> greg-g: don't worry about it, it won't take him long to get tired of arch
<nixternal> after using arch for a bit, i came to the realization that arch is for people who are scared of gentoo and deathly afriad of slackware or lfs
<greg-g> hah
<slestak> i never did get grub right.  had to force windows bootloader to take over again
<nixternal> rick_h_ will like it up until they do a python upgrade, then he will be in here flipping out
<greg-g> slestak: suck :/
<greg-g> nixternal: hahaha
<slestak> been sould searching for hours.  ready to try sth different
<rick_h_> nixternal: hey, that's me
<nixternal> it was neat how arch dismantled themselves and made their distro useless for a week last year when they decided it was time to upgrade to python3. they broke everything with a single upload
<rick_h_> lfs, oh hell no
<rick_h_> just left ubuntu
<nixternal> lfs was fun the first time
<slestak> opensuse has some fans in my lug
<nixternal> that's because of all the resources opensuse hogs, need all those fans to try and cool it down :p
<rick_h_> if my system's going to break might as well have some fun
<rick_h_> I've been saying I'm not canonical/ubuntu's target user anyway
<greg-g> when "fun" == "time spent figuring things out instead of getting work done" I'm kind of not on board :P
<rick_h_> might as well try some distro where I am the target user
<nixternal> greg-g: when did the community implode? did I miss something? granted I have been doing 'Mark all as read' in Google Reader lately :)
<greg-g> nixternal: I was exaggerating based on snap-l and I's discussion of the Harmony project
<nixternal> ahh
<rick_h_> what is this? I missed it I guess
<Blazeix> hell yes arch is for people who are scared of gentoo, lfs, and slackware.
<Blazeix> I think that could be said of every distro
<Blazeix> rick_h_: what is -dev in ubuntu, is it bleeding edge?
<greg-g> Blazeix: packages that provide the needed bits to build things that depend on them. Like, if you software needs foo to compile/build, you need to foo-dev installed. But you don't need it installed if you are just running the already compiled/built thing.
<Blazeix> rick_h_: I haven't ever needed to install extra packages to do development like that.
<Blazeix> though the majority of the compiling I do is handled via AUR
<Blazeix> Is the dual monitor issue a known driver bug? It's rare to have dual monitors not work under any distro nowadays.
<snap-l> Man, could Project Harmony have picked a worse name
<snap-l> considering there's a group to prevent child abuse with the same moniker.
<snap-l> And Harmony is the name of the Apache Java project
<snap-l> which is what I was initially thinking folks were discussing
<Blazeix> yeah, same sort of thing for Unity. I use Microsoft's Unity at work, and a while back I was testing out the game framework Unity.
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pymAoh7KH64&NR=1
<Blazeix> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-April/032988.html
<Blazeix> snap-l: bullet point 6 ^
<snap-l> Blazeix: Yeah, I saw that. :)
<Blazeix> one of my friends wants to buy a book so he can begin learning about databases. Any recommendations?
<Blazeix> He's a C developer, absoutely zero SQL experience
<Blazeix> thinking about just pointing him toward an O'Reilly book
<snap-l> Blazeix: What does e want to learn re: databases?
<Blazeix> basic use in an application
<snap-l> What language?
<Blazeix> nothing to deep. He's trying to learn django and his lack of db experience is holding him back
<snap-l> Well, shit.. just learn Django
<snap-l> doesn't it have the DB stuff bolted on?
<snap-l> All he'd need to know right now is stuff goes in, stuff goes out
<snap-l> Or are you looking for things like creating users / grants, and the like?
<Blazeix> I don't think he's happy with treating it as a black box
<Blazeix> yeah, user permissions, creating tables, intelligent table design
<Blazeix> actually, wikibooks might have something...
<snap-l> I think he's asking for the impossible. :)
<snap-l> wThe Beginning MySQL book from Apress is nice
<snap-l> even has some code samples
<snap-l> http://www.apress.com/9781590595350
<Blazeix> ok, thanks. I just pointed him to wikibook's SQL lessons
<Blazeix> Hopefully then he can learn more, and figure out exactly what he wants :)
<Blazeix> ooh, that looks nice. Right now he's just using sqlite, though he has a postgres install on his server.
<snap-l> http://books.slashdot.org/story/04/11/17/1827201/The-Definitive-Guide-to-MySQL-2nd-Ed
<Blazeix> this might be good too http://www.apress.com/9781590594780
<Blazeix> oh awesome slashdot review
<snap-l> Yeah, that's also a good book
<Blazeix> thanks, I sent the links over his way
<snap-l> np
<rick_h_> Blazeix: looks like just the mysql packages has the header files (at least things seem to be building)
<rick_h_> as for the dual monitors: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/729788
<rick_h_> I had seen somewhere someone fixing it with a .38 kernel update so had hoped the arch kernels would be the savior there
<brousch> rick_h_: can't you downgrade your bios to the working version?
<rick_h_> brousch: no, the version I was on is no longer available for download
<rick_h_> they only ahve the last XX versions
<rick_h_> hmmm, ok cool. So while I can't get the full 1920 display on the second monitor
<rick_h_> I can set to the max xrandr/kernel/driver things it can do (
<rick_h_> 1280x1024
<rick_h_> and I can then set the monitor to not stretch the image
<rick_h_> so nice wide bars on the sides of the display, but a set of pixels I didn't have earlier
<brousch> 1280 pixel should be enough for anyone
<rick_h_> lol, silly man
<brousch> 1280x800 is the perfect resolution. my mbp tells me so
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> rick_h_: So, how is Arch treating you?
<brousch> jcastro: do you run a gmail notifier in unity? if so, which one?
<jcastro> brousch: I don't
<jcastro> there's a bunch of half finished crap ones though. :(
<jcastro> brousch: ask on askubuntu.com and tag it software-recommendation
<brousch> heh
<brousch> a guy asked me which one i use because all he found were broken crap ones ;)
<Blazeix> yeah, they're all in a sad state. I used to run Cloud Services Notifier, which I found to be the best
<Blazeix> it at least integrates with gnome's keyring
<Blazeix> you have to be careful, a lot of them are poorly written, and will either store your password in plain-text, or download and parse the html of the gmail web interface.
<rick_h_> snap-l: so far so good, not had a lot of time behind the machine with the travels
<rick_h_> so still getting things setup
<rick_h_> taking a little longer than usual since I can't copy/paste my normal setup commands from the wiki I have
<rick_h_> Blazeix: ping
<snap-l> rick_h_: Cool. Will have to see what's up next time we meet
<rick_h_> yea, good stuff
<rick_h_> working on getting things setup to be able to do work on monday, wheee
<snap-l> wewt
<rick_h_> heh, so many years of training colliding
 * rick_h_ loads up /var/www...oh...doesn't exist
<Blazeix> rick_h_: /srv/http
<rick_h_> yea, just mean that there's different ways of doing things
<rick_h_> I finally got used to sudo service XXX and now it's /etc/rc.d/xxx
<rick_h_> all good though
<Blazeix> Whenever I'm on a ubuntu system now I type "/etc/rc.d/... damn. /etc/init.d/... damn"
<Blazeix> then I usually give up
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> Interesting, I didn't realize that the Daisy format is designed for print-disabled readers
<snap-l> and has a key that you get from the Library of Congress.
<rick_h_> ?? Daisy format?
<greg-g> e-text
<rick_h_> ah, never heard of it before
<snap-l> http://openlibrary.org/
<snap-l> Was looking for a book in ebook format (Asimov's Guide to the Bible)
<snap-l> and noticed that the Internet Archive had a copy of it
<snap-l> but it's in protected DAISY format
<rick_h_> interesting
<snap-l> I have a copy of it in hardcover, but it's a big book.
<snap-l> and was thinking there might be a way to get it in ebook format
<snap-l> alas, I don't see a way (no pun intended)
<rick_h_> Blazeix _stink_ snap-l widox anyone else: http://bmark.us/events.html
<rick_h_> Blazeix: what flash player do you use?
<rick_h_> package that is?
<Blazeix> rick_h_: flashplugin from the multilib repo
<rick_h_> k, cool
<rick_h_> I saw a ton in AUR
<rick_h_> and wasn't sure
<rick_h_> wow, just a few deps there
<jcastro> snap-l: we're leaving here in about 30 minutes
<greg-g> ok, stackexchange is officially stupid
<greg-g> I'm apparently logged into askubuntu with one account and meta.askubuntu with another. When I try to log out of meta.askubuntu it asks me to confirm that I want to log out, but it is confirming the logout of the username that is on askubuntu, not meta.askubuntu
<rick_h_> oops
<greg-g> and all I want to do is freaking request to merge two accounts, but I need 5 reputation points on askubuntu to even ask for help on meta.askbuntu, which is dumb as hell
<greg-g> the account that is logged into meta only has 1, the one that is logged into askubuntu has 23, but I can't log out of meta, so, yeah, stuck. jcastro I blame you. ;)
 * greg-g goes back to bookie stuff instead :)
<jcastro> did you use a different OID each time or something?
<jcastro> http://meta.askubuntu.com/users/1694/greg-grossmeier
<jcastro> is you on meta
<greg-g> yes
<greg-g> user11778 is the one associated with LP account, greg.grossmeier is associated with my creativecommons.net account
<greg-g> er, greg-grossmeier I guess
<jcastro> oh
<jcastro> so you need to go back and add the second OID to your account
<greg-g> ah, I guess I just had to wait a few minutes for it to recognize that, now I'm greg-grossmeier on meta... will ask the question
<rick_h_> greg-g: cheat? remove the cookies manually via firebug/etc
<jcastro> greg-g: I just add multiple OIDs to my account, that way whichever one I use that day works
<greg-g> rick_h_: I'm of the opinion that I shouldn't need to :) and I'll complain before I re-activate firebug ;)
<rick_h_> heh, yea since you're good
<greg-g> jcastro: yeah, but since the UI sucked balls initially, it created 2 accounts for me
<jcastro> oh
<greg-g> :), I'll figure it out from here
<greg-g> jcastro: though, if you want to help (if you can, not sure) http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/1260/please-merge-the-accounts-greg-grossmeier-and-user11778 . Don't feel obligated, I'm fine waiting.
<jcastro> they usually get those fast
<greg-g> cool thanks buddy
<jcastro> I can't see user11778 though
<greg-g> I swear that is what it told me I was
<jcastro> oh well
<jcastro> they'll sort it
<greg-g> http://askubuntu.com/users/11778/user11778
<jcastro> ah
<jcastro> snap-l: leaving now!
<snap-l> Cool
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-09
<snap-l> Whew.
<snap-l> Holiday is over
<snap-l> now it's time to think about going to work tomorrow
<snap-l> (sigh)
<rick_h> yea, ugh
<brousch> rick_h: what'd you put on heroku?
<rick_h> brousch: http://readable.bmark.us/
<rick_h> doing pretty well, tested with seige to get aroud 27req/s with the async url fetcher
<rick_h> considering I'm doing another http call and I'm limited to the upstream server it works cool
<brousch> so you broke out the parser into its own app?
<rick_h> brousch: yea, so in order to scale it out I thought it'd be cool to make it its own app and just have bookie call it when it does backgroud processing/etc
<rick_h> plus it gives me something to tinker with heroky with, it's very limited in scope, and doing it with tornado/async to play with that as well
<rick_h> should help reduce some code overhead in bookie, make this potentially useful
<rick_h> I can do a bookmark that just feeds the current url to the /view/ call and you can get readable text without bookmarking
<rick_h> and running on one heroku instance is free, so you could very quickly setup your own vs the bookie install
<rick_h> anyway, something to tinker with, having fun with new stuff
<brousch> nice
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> for those of you that need more books: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/603/
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> rick_h: NOOOOOOOOOO
<rick_h> snap-l: I never loaded the page, I don't want to look lol
<brousch> This sounds like Penguicon to me http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/04/09/hermetically-yours
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> Or just about every conference
<snap-l> "Hi, it's a pleaseure to meet you. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go fumigate my hand in Purell"/
<brousch> this is crazy http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1760499
<brousch> you need to do all of that crap just to run your own code on your own ipad?
<snap-l> Remind me to blokc informit at the router level as well
<snap-l> Man, but they have the worst articles.
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> ALmost as bad as PC MAgazine
<snap-l> Any time I read some BS half-researched article, it's usually from infoworld, informit, or PC magazine
<snap-l> That said, Doug Hellman and WEsley Chun are the exceptions
<brousch> i am feeling more dense than usual this morning
<brousch> how do i put my ~/.vimrc and ~/.vim in a repo on gihub? do i have to git init my ~ dir?
<rick_h> so I check my stuff out to ~/configs
<rick_h> and have an install.py that symlinks it to ~
<brousch> ah, so you put it in a separate dir and symlink to where it belongs
<snap-l> I have a .git directory in my .vim directory
<brousch> snap-l: but that wouldn't get .vimrc
<snap-l> which has vimrc and gvimrc in there with a link to ~/.vimrc and .gvimrc
<rick_h> brousch: yea, and it let me keep all my dotfiles/ssh files/vim in one place for updating/etc
<brousch> hm
<rick_h> brousch: https://github.com/mitechie/pyvim
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, and you put .zshrc and other foo in there.
<rick_h> https://github.com/mitechie/pyvim/blob/master/install.py
<snap-l> ACtually, I'm surprised you don't have .zshrc in configs
<brousch> geez
<brousch> wow, that's just for vim?
<rick_h> yea, I've got the same setup for git reops for email config, dotfiles, vim, ssh, and ~/bin
<rick_h> so it's a bit copy/paste
<rick_h> brousch: but that's installing all my pathogen bundles as well
<rick_h> snap-l: don't you want to go scripting tmux now? :)
<brousch> i think this will work
<brousch> put the vim stuff in ~/configs/vim and have a simple install.sh to symlink where they belong
<jrwren> i have to admit, i'm not sure that I like that solution, but I've not come up with anything better :(
<rick_h> yea, I like it well enough
<brousch> thanks
<rick_h> but yea, I've got a bunch of repos since my vim is published it can't have anything private in it
<rick_h> my ssh is it's own config so that the private keys only get installed on my main system, etc
<rick_h> not all my systems need to do email, so no sense having my email acct passwords on every machine
<jrwren> you put private keys on github?
<rick_h> no, I don't
<jrwren> ah, i see.
<rick_h> that's why I have 5 different repos in ~/configs
<snap-l> rick_h: Oh yeah
<snap-l> It's the only reason I considered making a configs directory. :)
<jrwren> rick_h: making any progress on moving all the bzr stuff to git there? :p
<rick_h> jrwren: heh, I wish...not a bzr fan
<rick_h> brousch: and then you start to get stuff like: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/604/ :)
<brousch> wow
<brousch> i suppose that has its own repo too
<rick_h> there's more to that: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/605/
<rick_h> brousch: yea, a new repo called 'install'
<brousch> rick_h: where do you keep all these repos?
<rick_h> brousch: so yea, the idea is to git clone install from my local server, and then it runs the rest of the install steps via make commands there
<rick_h> brousch: public ones are on github, one private one is on github, and a couple others are copied on a local machine and a backup remote machine so I've got two copies
<rick_h> gits is a alias for one of my local machines basically
<brousch> i'll probably put it in a bitbucket private repo
<rick_h> this is 3 installs (so 1.5yr?) in the making. Each install I automate/document a little more and a little more
<rick_h> this last install took really just over an hour to get most things back up
<rick_h> most of that downloading things :)
<brousch> is that setting up awesome or unity?
<rick_h> well it installs awesome and my dotfiles has my awesome config in it
<rick_h> but you choose what to log into at boot time
<rick_h> so I can logout/in to unity any time
<brousch> nice
<brousch> what's with using make instead of bash?
<brousch> or zsh
<rick_h> so make uses bash
<rick_h> it's using shell commands to perform the steps
<rick_h> the nice thing is I can rerun parts
<rick_h> so when I install a package, to make sure my install keeps up to date, I add it to my makefile command and rerun that
<rick_h> and you get deps, so when I make configs, the ~/configs directory is auto created as a dep
<rick_h> that kind of stuff
<jrwren> can't you SHELL=/usr/bin/zsh at the top of your make file? :)
<rick_h> yea, but not doing anything that really needs it
<brousch> woohoo, it works!
<rick_h> yay
<jrwren> i think today I'll go to precise.
<jrwren> update-manager -d here I come.
<jrwren> i'll do it remote even.
<jrwren> that is how confident I am.
<rick_h> party!
<jrwren> s/update-manager/do-release-upgrade/
<brousch> jrwren: that's because you do your work on a different machine
<jrwren> *its working*
<jrwren> brousch: um, yes and no.
<jrwren> said machine runs a lot of "production" services for me.
<jrwren> e.g. if it is down, i hear about it from my wife pretty quickly.
<_stink_> anyone use this badboy? http://mosh.mit.edu/
<rick_h> I hate bzr...damn thing...
<rick_h> _stink_: nope, never heard of it
<_stink_> do i win a prize for hearing about something terminaly before rick_h?
<ColonelPanic001> you should.
<_stink_> o/
<rick_h> _stink_: you can have a bookie badge at penguicon if you're there :P
<_stink_> yay!
<snap-l> I'm curious what the protocol they use is
<snap-l> apparently I fail at scrolling
<snap-l> So, you have to expose the server in order to connect to it. Not sure I trust that.
 * snap-l loves his SSH tunnels
<jrwren> i love snap-l's ssh tunnels too
<rick_h> always love it when people don't know vim so they write their own crap for it http://vimbits.com/bits/351
<jrwren> a replacement for ssh? this does not sound good.
 * brousch has no interest in snap-l's love tunnels
<snap-l> jrwren: It's not quite as bad as it first appears
<jrwren> lol @ local echo as a selling point.
<snap-l> but it looks like you lose key auth
<jrwren> it certainly looks interesting
<rick_h> bwuhahaha beat into submission! http://ramblings.timgolden.me.uk/2012/04/09/pep8-it-is-then/
<snap-l> nice to know that the energy trail mix I was eating that has soybeans and other nuts "Contains: Soy, Nuts"
<snap-l> I'd be downright pissed if it didn't.
<jrwren> TIL: bash supports loadable builtins
<jrwren> http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashLoadable
<snap-l> rick_h: http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920024057.do?sortby=publicationDate
<rick_h> snap-l: cool
<rick_h> but honestly, I've not run across much where I'd need the stuff.
<snap-l> Me either, but that doesn't keep my "buy it now" finger from itching.
<rick_h> heh, I'm starting to lose the trigger...
 * rick_h hides the Go and Ruby books he recently picke dup on whims
<snap-l> rick_h: *coughbullshitcough*
<rick_h> need to get those meds going snap-l :)
<rick_h> I am running out of light reading stuff. I like to read a bit before bed and getting tough
<rick_h> so I just start up more code projects :P
<rick_h> hey, I picked up that tornado book and now using tornado on readable.bmark.us :P
 * snap-l wonders what a 5 * book is for rick_h
<rick_h> snap-l: you know my wife's rule :P
<rick_h> "rick_h isn't picky...he's just easily displeased"
<rick_h> I don't give perfect ratings unless I'm blown away
<rick_h> it makes review season at work hard
<rick_h> brousch: have you scaled anything on heroku? Used multi workers?
<brousch> no
<brousch> i only have grpug on there, and it is tiny
<rick_h> k
<brousch> rick_h: as usual, you are on the cutting edge
<rick_h> brousch: well just curious more than anything how it works for scaling out. Just launches more instances of your app/proxies I'd imagine
<rick_h> I'll write up a bunch of test urls and try siege at it
<brousch> i am weak and resort to GAE for scale
<rick_h> yea, don't need to scale out much at the moment, but it seems interesting that I might be able to runa heroku command to fire up 3 more dynos, run my background cron job, and then shut them down again
<rick_h> to help scale out the readable processing backend
<rick_h> it's a bit more appealing than setting up multiple/larger ec2 instances
<brousch> even with juju?
<rick_h> hmm, interesting thought. The issue I have with juju is I need to fire up more boxes
<rick_h> one to run juju on, one for each app
<rick_h> I guess with this app it's just n+1
<brousch> well i assume whatever machine is requesting the readable version would fire up the instances/turn on moar dynos
<rick_h> yea, since it's a cron job the idea is just that scale up, process cron job, go back down to free tier
<rick_h> I guess it needs the heroku tools and my ssh key in order to do that
<brousch> ah, i was thinking it was a queue
<brousch> seems reasonable though
<rick_h> anyway, stuff to tinker with
<snap-l> Fuck
<snap-l> fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
<snap-l> http://www.npr.org/2012/04/09/150281080/at-t-lets-go-of-shrinking-yellow-pages-business
<rick_h> ?
<rick_h> because att is awesome?
<snap-l> I hope this doesn't include the White Pages
<snap-l> because if it does, I hope that the FTC steps in to ensure that Cerberus doesn't start marketing the hell out of that data.
<rick_h> I wonder if I'm even in the white pages
<brousch> bah, switch to mobile
<snap-l> I know I am
<snap-l> my phone number is listed as a FAX number.
<snap-l> WOW gave me the option, so I took it. ;)
<brousch> ahahaha
<snap-l> Also, for those playing at home, Cerberus was the company that purchased Chrysler from Daimler
<rick_h> lol https://twitter.com/#!/davidsiegel/status/189380898695811074
<snap-l> and ended selling Chrysler to Fiat
<snap-l> rick_h: I think that's the 5th or 6th sign of the apocalypse
<rick_h> yea, they're coming in big batches lately
<brousch> well, it is 2012
<jrwren> is there a way to get apt to allow me to merge changes between changed configuration files?
<jrwren> e.g. my php.ini file has changed. I want to merge the changes that apt is suggesting.
<jrwren> not overwrite
<jrwren> s/apt/dpkg/
<snap-l> jrwren: I thought there was an option for that
<snap-l>  ie: if it's possible, it'll offer it
<jrwren> https://gist.github.com/2344650  you can see a diff
<snap-l> but usually I just obliterate the config with whatever the package maintainer had, and apply afterward
<jrwren> but you cannot merge
<jrwren> i'll keep local and look at the .dpkg-suggested later
<snap-l> I <3 how this spam uses a news article to trick the bayes filters.
<snap-l> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-04/groupon-ipo-scandal-is-the-sleaze-that-s-legal.html
<rick_h> heh, groupon has struck me as just a unsavory company from day one
<snap-l> YEah, they're like Entertainment Books
<greg-g> I keep trying to convince Carrie that Groupon/Livingsocial are not worth our time, but she keeps vetoing me
<rick_h> thankfully my wife hasn't found/messed with them yet
<greg-g> I can't believe I'm being vetoed after the shenanigans Groupon pulled, and the fact that we have at least two that we'll never use because we bought them pre-baby
<snap-l> JoDee looked at them, but frankly there were only a handful that seemed interesting
<snap-l> and all of them felt like a deal with the devil
<snap-l> (Groupon, not Living Social)
<snap-l> And the 6th seal breaks: http://allthingsd.com/20120409/breaking-facebook-to-acquire-instagram-for-1-billion/?mod=tweet
<rick_h> holy crap...
<rick_h> can you freaking imagine? 2yrs of work, and sure, work your @#$#@ off, but 2yrs of work and bought out for that kind of $$?
<snap-l> rick_h: STOP TALKING AND START WORKING ON BOOKIE
<rick_h> no kidding, not that it'd ever be a freaking billion dollar anything
<snap-l> Shush
<rick_h> but hell, I'd just like to earn a living hacking on stuff I want to hack on
<snap-l> I'm sure Yahoo will be back in the market for a bookmarking application
<rick_h> lmao
<rick_h> geeze...that's crushing.
<rick_h> I should stop reading these startup books and such.
<greg-g> startups are toxic
<rick_h> yea, definitely, but appeals so much to the builder in me
<rick_h> 245687
<rick_h> grrr, stupid thing
<greg-g> building is great
<greg-g> the startup mentality/ethic(or lack there-of) is toxic
<greg-g> sorry, after moving to the mecca of startups, I can confirm all bad press
<rick_h> ah, yea having never done/worked with that stuff I don't have experience for that stuff
<rick_h> for me I just see people that have a passion for just building cool stuff and that's what I love.
<rick_h> even my woodworking/etc is all about just making things
 * greg-g is also in a bad mood re most investors that anything that smells like one he'll probably not like
<rick_h> so I romanticize it I'm sure
<greg-g> rick_h++
<rick_h> lol: https://twitter.com/#!/rands/status/189400929173372928
<greg-g> nice
<jrwren> ~wait?
<greg-g> glad I didn't install the app
<jrwren> toxic?
<jrwren> how are startups toxic?
<greg-g> :) heh, I knew I would troll jrwren with that comment
<greg-g> sorry, see the /me comment above
<jrwren> ah.
<jrwren> generalizations.
<greg-g> yeah
<jrwren> fair enough.
<greg-g> generalizations+stereotypes+some first hand experience ;)
<greg-g> I work in the same building as 500 Startups
<greg-g> the group, luckily there aren't 500 startups here
<greg-g> (also, did you know that 500 startups has only worked with ~200 startups? heh)
<rick_h> lol, going to say that must be a big building or some small startups
<jrwren> ha!
<greg-g> one startup per child
<jrwren> some startups are great.
<greg-g> right, totally. startup just means 'burgeoning business' which can be anywhere on the good/bad ethical/unethical whatever/not-whatever spectrum
<jrwren> yay!
<greg-g> but, given certain inputs, certain outputs tend to come to pass
<rick_h> yea, but I think a lot of people, especially outside certain circles automatically throw up some filters when they hear 'startup'
<jrwren> sure.
<jrwren> i hear "low paid"
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> that's one of them :)
<rick_h> long hours, some blinders on the head, and partially salely
<rick_h> to start
<snap-l> I think the big thing that drives me nuts about startups is this thought that every startup has to conform to this notion of 25 hour days, adrenaline-fueled binges, and no money for the promise of a big payout
<rick_h> yea, I really respect what guys like the pinboard guys do. Gary Bernhardt as well. Setup something to earn a living.
<snap-l> I would love to make something to earn a living off of
<snap-l> unfortunately, outside of a lifestyle kickstarter, I'm not sure how to go about that. ;)
<greg-g> help me fund my beer fridge
<greg-g> help me buy a new mattress
<snap-l> Help me stick it to the man
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> for $100,000, I will tatoo your name on my ass.
<jrwren> like SRT as a "startup" ?
<rick_h> how do you cleaim that income lol
<snap-l> rick_h: hobby
<rick_h> "Ass defamation: $100,000"
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, I suppose, but it seems that in that kind of setup you're really dependant on the types of work/projects you can get your hands on
<snap-l> Well, you could take the tattoo iteself off as a business expense.
<rick_h> this is kind of crazy http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/09/right-before-acquisition-instagram-closed-50m-at-a-500m-valuation-from-sequoia-thrive-greylock-and-benchmark/
<jrwren> rick_h: yes, you are VERY dependant.
<jrwren> but it does have the "make a place we want to work" value
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, definitely has potential to be really cool
<jjesse> instagram worth $1 billion dollars or equal to purchasing 4 boeing 777's
<rick_h> and seems that they've acomplished that there
<rick_h> hah, well when you put it that way
<jrwren> even that $500M valuation is nuts.
<rick_h> actually, wasn't the new Giants/Jets stadium 1B to build?
<rick_h> that's crazy
<jrwren> wtf would you say flickr is worth?
<jjesse> is it the community behind instagram or the app they are after?
<snap-l> jrwren: To the people who host photos there, lots
<greg-g> jjesse: community
<snap-l> jrwren: To the people searching for photos there, lots
<rick_h> I don't know, evidently I suck at these maths...I missed "hyperbolic valuations theory" when I was taking calc 3
<greg-g> now a-days apps are a secondary thought, you can always throw 30 more devs at a problem. But community (ie: personal data to monetize with ads or sponsorshis or whatever the fuck) is where the money is
<snap-l> jrwren: To everyone else who couldn't care less, nothing.
<snap-l> greg-g: Which is fascinating to see the number of people looking to cancel their instagram accounts.
<jrwren> i'm trying to find what yahoo paid for clikr
<rick_h> well, facebook is a pretty binary ecosystem
<jrwren> * paid for flickr
<snap-l> but that's to be expected
<greg-g> snap-l: they are? I doubt it'll be any sig percentage
<snap-l> greg-g: I think it'll be 5-10%
<snap-l> But I think Facebook just wants the community to be on Facebook
<greg-g> facebook really seems like it is going to win the web war from google
<rick_h> jrwren: Yahoo! acquired Ludicorp and Flickr in March 2005. The reported acquisition cost was $35 million
<jrwren> lol.
<rick_h> I have to agree with most people, I don't see how this buys anything for Facebook.
<jrwren> I'd suggest that flickr then was more valuable than instagram is now.
<rick_h> Facebook has more resources, more talent, more tech know how, more customers.
<jrwren> but pros disagree with me :)
<snap-l> jrwren: The mobile component is what's adding the crack-frosting to this cake
<greg-g> jrwren: and now you see why the JOBS Act is dumb
 * greg-g chuckles
<jjesse> the mobile part is the key
<snap-l> OMG, I CAN POST FROM MY PHONE?!?!?!?!
 * greg-g is on a jrwren trolling party bus today
<jrwren> greg-g: fuk no.
<jrwren> jobs act means I could have got in on the double my money overnight action :)
<jrwren> the flickr phone app is pretty good. maybe better than instagram.
<snap-l> jrwren: I have a charity you can support
<jrwren> but... but... trendy filters!
<jcastro> Instagram! Powered by Ubuntu
<greg-g> lol
<snap-l> it's the Society for the prevention of the buying power of idiots.
<snap-l> Just send us your donation, and we'll see that idiots everywhere won't be able to make stupid purchases.
<snap-l> Ask your friends to make matching donations.
<greg-g> it DOUBLES the effect of your contribution!
<snap-l> absolutely.
<rick_h> cool, found a local clarkston dev, node.js fanboi it appears, but still.
<jrwren> snap-l: so your goal is the destruction of walmart?
<greg-g> rick_h: ???
<rick_h> greg-g: sorry, just surprised there are other real techy people in my local area.
<snap-l> jrwren: If I could take in what walmart takes in, I'd be very happy.
<snap-l> rick_h: It's not like you live in the boonies
<rick_h> greg-g: especially condering all the driving I do to hang out with you techy folks :P
<snap-l> you have an ice cream stand that isn't attached to a cow, for God's sake.
<jrwren> snap-l: ha! hahahahah!
<greg-g> rick_h: ah, thought you got inspired by instagram and hired a second bookie employee ;)
<jrwren> cooks farm dairy!  nom nom nom
<rick_h> greg-g: lmao, now you're talking
<rick_h> jrwren: the local place started service cook's ice cream
<snap-l> rick_h: There you go: put in an ad in Craigslist for a developer
<rick_h> and then respond to it myself?
<snap-l> "The internet is booming, and we need to grow our business"
<snap-l> "looking for qualified rockstar developers to help take us to the next level"
<snap-l> "Must be willing to swear your soul to the company. Pay is upwards of $8 an hour, commesurate with experience"
<snap-l> dhh: Dude, it's so not like last time. Those were desktop eyeballs. Everyone knows they ain't worth shit. These are MOBILE eyeballs, PLAYA!
<greg-g> they have a point that mobile eyeballs are worth more (more situated data, and easier access to your other data eg contacts)
<greg-g> situated/contextualized
<greg-g> you thought Google just wanted to make an "open source" alternative to iphone to be the "good guy"? :)
<rick_h> https://twitter.com/#!/garybernhardt/status/189409227767427072 lol
<greg-g> nice
<jrwren> <3 Gary
<snap-l> @benhjacobs: Kodak goes bankrupt and Instagram is worth a billion dollars. 2012, y'all.
<jrwren> fukin crazy.
<jrwren> instagram doesn't even have a website.
<jrwren> just the app.
<jrwren> i've no idea where it even posts to.
<jrwren> no WAY is it worth a billion
<jrwren> this is insane.
<snap-l> RT @hasanahmad: @jeffjarvis now all fb has to do is acquire tumblr and the hipster suicide watch will begin
<snap-l> lol
<greg-g> jrwren: that's the point (no web, just app) that way you control ALL data
<greg-g> appifuckication
<snap-l> greg-g: I value that answer at $500 internet bucks
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> instaram is worth so much because it runs on django
<rick_h> clearly :P
<brousch> and gunicorn
<brousch> a good stack http://instagram-engineering.tumblr.com/post/13649370142/what-powers-instagram-hundreds-of-instances-dozens-of
<snap-l> Also, now that INstagram is $1B, I look forward to Polaroid suing for trademark infringement
<jrwren> how is that a good stack?
<jrwren> some WEIRD choices there.
<jrwren> I'm sure they had their reasons.
<jrwren> not that I'm knocking the python/django/gunicorn choices.
<brousch> what is weird?
<rick_h> no, but 25 app servers and 12 db servers?
<jrwren> EBS
<jrwren> they complain about EBS spindles.
<jrwren> why not just store images in S3 ?
<jrwren> its literally for what S3 was made
<rick_h> "The photos themselves go straight to Amazon S3"
<jrwren> lol, i missed that then!
<jrwren> sheeesh.
<jrwren> reading fail.
<jrwren> ty rick_h
<rick_h> np, was just reading that line myself so had it handy :)
<jrwren> in that case, its a damn shame to hear that their pg on ebs is so slow.
<rick_h> well ebs disk is known to have issues
<jrwren> because meta data for users and photos for only a few TB of photes should NOT be that much.
<rick_h> there's a LOT of posts out there trying to hack on that
<snap-l> Also, Microsoft apparently bought some Netscape patents
<jrwren> from whom?
<jrwren> from AOL?
<snap-l> Yep
<rick_h> yea, a whole "realizing the value of our patent portfolio" deal
<brousch> $1billion dollars worth
<rick_h> the articles coming out of that were nuts
<snap-l> So, at what point does the bubble burst again?
<jjesse> except AOL kept the Netscape URL and the Netscape ISP
<jjesse> wtf Netscape ISP is i don't know but it is apparently out there
<snap-l> I mean, we have patent portfolios that are essentially just a lot of hot air
<snap-l> and companies who have a freemium business model
<snap-l> Wondering if Groupon will be this generation's Pets.com
<snap-l> s/generation/iteration/
<brousch> linux-magazine makes me want to kick puppies
<brousch> they always have a small, interesting abstract then you have to download a PDF for the full article
<snap-l> brousch: And you have to subscribe too, if it's a more recent article.
<brousch> YOU BETTER RUN, PUPPIES
<rick_h> grrrr.."to cancel please call out special number...and wait on hold forever!! bwuhahaha!"
<snap-l> rick_h: What are you canceling?
<rick_h> broadvoice
<rick_h> we never use the land line phones at all, just give verizon our $$ and skip this fake land line
<snap-l> rick_h: Ah, lovely.
<rick_h> damn! 15min hold, say I want to cancel...and transferred back on hold
<snap-l> My only worry with that is having all lines of communicaion cut in an emergency
<snap-l> says the man with a VOIP service that goes AWOL when the power is cut.
<rick_h> yea, but I can google voice through my laptop the same as this broadvoice voip setup
<rick_h> and I have my stuff on battery backup for some of that
<snap-l> Yeah, same here
<rick_h> the only thing was the nice ability to put phones across the house and for the wife doing call to not have to keep around her cell phone
<rick_h> but she's gotten to where she never uses the 'land' line so done with it
<snap-l> Yeah, we use our land line a lot
<snap-l> our cell phones are essentially messaging terminals
<rick_h> when the route went boom I left it un hoooked up, think that was 3mo ago
<snap-l> and for mobile.
<rick_h> heh yea, even my MIL is texting
<snap-l> My parents are luddites
<snap-l> My dad's phone doesn't accept texts, I learned this weekend.
<rick_h> orly, wow
<snap-l> ANd my mom could probably well served with a brick
<snap-l> so she could threaten someone to use their cell phone in case of an emergency.
<jrwren> you could always get a google voice account and hook that up to your land line.
<jrwren> for the cost of a ATA
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, end of the day, we use our cells for everything so not a lot of point other than to let the boy play with the land line phones
<rick_h> he loves that
<jrwren> *nod*
<jrwren> i'm still paying $17/mo for vonage for no good reason.
<brousch> we dumped landline 18 months ago
<brousch> haven't had any problems
<jrwren> the nice thing about a land line is that it will potentially keep working in a MAJOR power outage.
<jrwren> like the aug 2001 blackout.
<jrwren> was that 2001?
<jrwren> err, 2033
<brousch> well you still have 911 service on your landline
<jrwren> i don't think even a 1500VA UPS will last for 3-4 days powering a router, cable modem and ATA
<rick_h> no, you're in generator area there
<jrwren> brousch: you might. My wires aren't wired to ATT in my walls
<jrwren> i should run some tests and see just how long a UPS can power the cable modem router and ATA
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, that was the only thing that was working
<jrwren> just thinking about the 2k3 blackout makes me want to eat icecream.
<jrwren> had to clear out the freezer :)
<snap-l> http://twitpic.com/97ub0z
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-czZr2e-pl0 <- Neurotech's latest EP
<brousch> that is so 2 hours ago
<snap-l> which?
<brousch> neeeurotech
<snap-l> brousch: You're on their mailing list, aren't you? :)
<brousch> of course
<snap-l> http://askubuntu.com/a/101634/1614 <- This is very useful information
<snap-l> I give the poster $500 internet bucks
<brousch> heh. it is silly how often people ask that
<brousch> i think 3/4 of my reputation points are from similar questions
<snap-l> http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/09/computer-legend-and-gaming-pioneer-jack-tramiel-dies-at-age-83/
<rick_h> geeze, this freaking nas has a 'desktop'
<greg-g> lol
<waldo323_> the Penguicon schedule is available http://penguicon2012.sched.org/ it is still a work in progress and there is still time for some additions as well
<waldo323_> they/we are looking for feedback so we can solve issues before it goes to print
<rick_h> so pushing 4-5MB/s across gigabit so far in rsync backup
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-10
<rick_h> ok, hourly backups to the nas...now I feel all grown up
<rick_h> man, I really can't seem to get it to top 5MB/s
<rick_h> snap-l: heh, so this thing has an app for streaming files to a logitech squeezebox
<widox> rick_h: did you get a new NAS?
<rick_h> widox: yea
<rick_h> usb drive full and needed larger drives anyway
<widox> which model?
<rick_h> DS212J
<widox> I should update mine...
<widox> its a few years old
<rick_h> there was a big thread about various nas devices at work pushed me over the edge
<rick_h> hopefully this helps, need to setup the wife's laptop to it
<widox> hows the sound? I hate those small buzzing fans some models come with
<rick_h> it's got a single decent size fan in the back, not a small one
<rick_h> the disks grinding are louder than the fan
<rick_h> and got a pair of 2TB 5400 rpm disks so they're not horrible
<snap-l> rick_h: So, when are you getting a Squeezebox? :)
<rick_h> snap-l: heh, just got the nas so have to reset the toy funds
<snap-l> I'm talking about 'em at MDLUG on Saturday in case you need a demo
<rick_h> but getting closer
<snap-l> rick_h: You can run Squeezeslave now. :)
<rick_h> meh, point is to run it upstairs away from all the computers
<snap-l> http://sourceforge.net/projects/softsqueeze/files/squeezeslave/squeezeslave-1.2.311/
<snap-l> http://sourceforge.net/projects/softsqueeze/files/squeezeslave/squeezeslave-1.2.311/squeezeslave-1.2-311-lnx26.tar.gz/download
<snap-l> rick_h: So now you have a use for that netbook. ;)
<snap-l> rick_h: There's also an Android app
<snap-l> http://www.appbrain.com/app/squeeze-player/de.bluegaspode.squeezeplayer
<snap-l> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.bluegaspode.squeezeplayer
<rick_h> hmm, can you rsync from one remote to another remote through a 3rd party?
<snap-l> rick_h: Not sure I follow
<rick_h> from my desktop I want to backup my ec2 server to my nas
<snap-l> Hm, I think you can do that
<rick_h> The source and destination cannot both be remote.
<rick_h> :(
<snap-l> rick_h: Bummer
<widox> heh, "Supported Clients: Ubuntu 9.04 onward"
<widox> rick_h: I hope you set up Wordpres on it too!
<rick_h> well, I guess if I setup auto rsync to my desktiop, and make sure it then rsyncs that dir during its backup I'll be ok
<rick_h> widox: yea, it's a bit of hit/miss. the setup isn't as smooth as you'd like
<rick_h> but you can ssh, install apps, etc
<rick_h> so it's not horrible as long as you know a little bit
<rick_h> I'm bummed at the speeds though, I've got the slow model, but maxing out cpu at 5MB/s and online it says it did 30
<rick_h> but I did get the 'cheap' model
<widox> hm
<widox> 30 and 5 is quite the diff
<rick_h> yea, now that was "windows upload" so guessing not rsync
<rick_h> and the cpu thing is saying each rsync (running two) is eating 30% cpu
<rick_h> so maybe however they did the windows transfer was less cpu intensive?
<snap-l> rsync is very CPU intensive
<snap-l> So you may be taxing it because it has to check the destination first
<widox> hah, "The performance figures are achieved in Synology lab by using very powerful client computers with extremely optimized network settings, and could vary on different environments. A regular office desktop/notebook may not be able to achieve this high performance figures."
<rick_h> yea, I'll test some downloads out of it I guess, and get around to setting up some smb/nfs and see how that does
<snap-l> widox: snort
<rick_h> I mean, 5MB/s is ok. I've backed up my whole laptop so far, and working through my old 500GB backup disk
<rick_h> and it's fast enough for doing most things I'll want out of it, but just disappointing
<snap-l> rick_h: You may also be disk bound
<snap-l> 5400RPM isn't that fast
<rick_h> snap-l: shouldn't be, 30GB/s on those
<snap-l> 3.0Gb/s
<snap-l> SATA 2?
<snap-l> er SATA?
<rick_h> snap-l: right, sorry, Interface: SATA 3.0Gbps Max. External Transfer Rate: 300 MB/s
<rick_h> swapped a G/M there
<snap-l> Which is theoretical
<snap-l> you're never going to see that speed
<rick_h> oh definitely
<snap-l> You're probably pushing more like 178MB/s
<rick_h> but I was hoping to get closer to the 30MB the synology site demo'd
<snap-l> and if you're ding RAID, it's also going to be CPU bound if they don't support it in Hardware.
<rick_h> gigabit is maxed out 125MBish, disks 150ish
<rick_h> synology says 30ish
<rick_h> I'm hitting 5
<rick_h> thus disappoint :(
<rick_h> but still, 2TB, on the network, low power, raid1 ... all yummy bits
<snap-l> Bad Drive?
<rick_h> no, cpu is at 100%, I'm sure I'm maxing out the devive
<rick_h> device
<rick_h> http://uploads.mitechie.com/new_nas.png
<rick_h> anyway, let it finish while I sleep. See you guys at mug tomorrow
<rick_h> ugh, so 13GB/hr so far and the old backup drive is 400+GB which works out to over 36 hours
<widox> oo, you can write web apps for it, http://www.synology.com/support/3rd_party_app_int.php?lang=enu
<rick_h> interesting, it runs php so that's one thing you could do
<jrwren> wiat? you got a slow synology?
<jrwren> synology is just linux. if you root it you can run pretty much anything.
<jrwren> but, lol @ 13GB/hr. I do 13GB in about 2-3 minutes
<rick_h> snap-l: remind me I've got 2 cmd lines for tonight
<rick_h> rst2html.py mug_notes.rts > /tmp/mug_notes.html
<brousch> rst r0x
<rick_h> heh oops
<rick_h> didn't realize I pasted that in there
<brousch> uh huh. you were showing off
<rick_h> bwuhahahaha
<brousch> just like your fancy number generator
<rick_h> going to show off httpie and httpcode for mug hopefully
<rick_h> if they let me do two awesome things!
<brousch> no one can stop rick_h's awesome
<brousch> let them try!
<rick_h> exactly, I'll just take over the stage and fight them off with sticks
<brousch> you just not stop talking
<brousch> hm, was that English?
<rick_h> so it's snowing here...
<Blazeix> nope, i refused to acknowledge that.
<brousch> hm, not cold enough here
<rick_h> weather.com says it's 37 here...but it's still drop little bits of white stuff
<brousch> new background http://dvice.com/archives/2012/04/unearthly-image.php
<rick_h> yea that one was cool
<brousch> looks good on my phone too
<snap-l> rick_h: WIll remind you. :)
<rick_h> snap-l: okie, can I do two please? they're super cool I promise :)
<snap-l> Also, on an unrelated note, I think I figured out how to add a cue sheet to the mp3 files for OMC
<snap-l> rick_h: I'll have to ask the board.
<snap-l> (j/k)
<rick_h> I've got inside connections
<rick_h> yay, html5 music playing on google music through the web interface
<brousch> rick_h: i use a chrome app for it, then keep it on workspace 10
<brousch> /opt/google/chrome/google-chrome --app="http://music.google.com" --new-window %U
<jrwren> rick_h: have you stuck a kilowatt on the synology yet to see what the power draw is?
<rick_h> jrwren: not yet
<rick_h> I'm waiting for the backup to finish up and then I'll put it in it's final home (vs middle of my desk) and I'll try it then
<jrwren> i wonder if it is slow because of some other reason. misconfigured network speed. autoneg and 100/half or something like that?
<jrwren> but you said CPU was pegged, so that is probably it.
<snap-l> I blame a non-optimized network, and non-lab environment
<snap-l> also blaming quantum mechanics, because that always throws a wrench in things.
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, the switch confirms it's gigabit, and it's a fresh raid1 and I wanted for it to init before dropping data to it
<rick_h> now maybe some jumbo frame setup? The NAS is setup for it, but not sure on the desktop
<rick_h> it's an older desktop at this point, but really since the cpu is maxed and the synology "Ideal" situation is 30MB/s 1/6 of that in 'non-optimized' I guess
<rick_h> thankfully I only got/use this thing for backups and not to try to run vm's off of it
<rick_h> The NAS was slower when writing small files, though, where it managed 11MB/sec in RAID 0 and a little under 10MB/sec in RAID 1.
<rick_h> Overall, the disk is much faster than its predecessor, the DS211j, when reading and writing large files, but is 3MB/s slower when dealing with small files.
<rick_h> probably hates me doing just a flat rsync like this vs tar/copy
<rick_h> so in this review it runs 18W under load, 15W idle
<jrwren> how long as apt-cache showpkg existed? have I been living under a rock?
<jrwren> rick_h: O_O that is probably it!
<jrwren> the NAS is sending jumbo frames and teh desktop is dropping them.
<jrwren> you can get 500-600Mbit without jumbo and it would be WAY faster.
<jrwren> you can't mix jumbo frames on teh same ethernet.
<jrwren> its all or nothing.
<jrwren> I'd turn off jumbo on the NAS and see if that helps.
<jrwren> but again, if your CPU is pegged... it probably doesn't matter.
<rick_h> ah, I lied...it's disabled.
<rick_h> I've got a setting for it
<jrwren> ah ok.
<jrwren> whew.
<snap-l> Oh shit, I'm losing online traffic to my competitors. A random e-mail just told me so
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> Better unleash the SEO monkeys
<brousch> snap-l: i will SEO you for only $1000
<snap-l> Fly py pagerankies, fly!
<snap-l> brousch: All taken care of
<brousch> damnit, now i'm losing online traffic to my competitors, the pagerankies
<jrwren> anyone know how to speed up the "processing triggers for man-db" step in dpkg?
<jrwren> hahaha... espeak is awesome.
<brousch> ut oh, time to get rid of those ebooks http://www.pythondiary.com/blog/Apr.10,2012/instant-django-release-information.html
<jrwren> if you want to laugh or o_O  http://delays.xmtp.net/~jrwren/NewSystemNotes.mp3
<snap-l> brousch: Django is suddenly not cool
<brousch> suddenly?
<snap-l> hah
<brousch> it's too popular. the hipsters move on
<brousch> expect an influx of skinny jeans and tophats at your Pyramid meetings
<brousch> snap-l: but seriously, why do you say it's not cool?
<widox> hah, maybe that guy should start a Kickstarter project for Instant Django
<brousch> bah, i see now. i pasted the wrong link
<widox> like the recent Ruby on Rails for Mac brewhaha
<brousch> ok, here's the ebook link http://healthland.time.com/2012/03/14/do-e-books-impair-memory/
<rick_h> no wolfger?
<rick_h> well any perl gurus https://plus.google.com/115784859563110525602/posts/E7cZw6vhaSV
<ColonelPanic001> wat
<rick_h> Don't know, I didn't look at it for fear I'd get a perl induced headache :)
<rick_h> I'm now starting to feel really old: http://i.imgur.com/vynW8.png
<rick_h> I mean...I *guess* I can see that if you grew up seeing the movie...but
<jjesse> seriously?
<jjesse> how dumb is america now ;(
<brousch> doesn't it say in the movie that it's based on real events?
<rick_h> yea, but even when you seee stuff like that you think it's some sort of dramatic adaptatoin
<jcastro> we should just tell people other stuff is based on real event
<jcastro> "yes, my grandpa actually went through the hunger games"
<_stink_> Independence Day
<jcastro> "WHAT."
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> really confuse them
<rick_h> "My great grandson went through the hunger games"
<brousch> is that any good?
<rick_h> no, but I seem to be the minority in that
<rick_h> didn't care for the book or the movie
<jcastro> I thought it was good
<brousch> i have resisted because so much of the hype for it is from the same people who like twilight
<ColonelPanic001> I already saw Battle Royale and read The Long Walk
<rick_h> yea, I mean the book is more for kids and the popularity is driven by younger audience
<ColonelPanic001> I did just finally finish Guns, Germs, and Steel, though
<ColonelPanic001> somehow I think that works out for the better
<brousch> i read the first twilight book. i will not be suckered again!
<rick_h> yea my aunt suckered me into hunger games
<rick_h> but my wife read all three i think
<brousch> my wife is a twidork
<_stink_> i'm sorry.
<greg-g> oh blog commentors, I don't know why I even let it through and responded :)
<rick_h> greg-g: huh?
<jrwren> rick_h: hahaha... kids will be kids.
<jrwren> next it will be, omg pearl harbor was real...
<greg-g> rick_h: someone responded to my latest quick post anonymously and tried to take my post in a way it wasn't intended is all :)
<jrwren> and then zomg, armegheddon was real?...
<greg-g> heh
<rick_h> greg-g: I wasn't sure there myself tbh
<rick_h> greg-g: it had a lot of potential layers
<greg-g> rick_h: yeah, lots o layers and me not giving it the time it needed to actually be written well
<greg-g> mostly my fault, I suppose. it started with a joke (the photo) but then I tried to make it serious and such. oh well
<rick_h> greg-g: welcome to parenthood! :)
<greg-g> rick_h: no. kidding.
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, that's what it seemed like. Started out one way, but with the ending it got where you had to go back and look at it again
<greg-g> yeah, I call it, "literary"
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> man, it's showing harder now
<jasonwert> where are you at rick_h ?
<greg-g> north of detroit
<jasonwert> No snow in Traverse City
<rick_h> jasonwert: clarkston area
<rick_h> greg-g: that's crazy video of the bike rider
<rick_h> though I'm floored they're biking down the middle of the street
<greg-g> where they should be
 * rick_h is still a biking on the sidewalk/trail kind of biking
<greg-g> rick_h: if I only take a foot on the right side, a driver thinks "oh, I can share that lane with them and pass them when another car is in the left lane" which is a complete and utter fallacy.
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, can see that
<greg-g> I am required to have 3 feet between me and a passing car. That won't work in that situation
<rick_h> just surpised they weren't with pedestrians in the sidewalk path on the side
<greg-g> bikes are normally not allowed on pedestrian paths for good reason. 3 mph person vs 15 mph bike is nasty
<greg-g> bike get a full lane, the world needs to know and get over this
<rick_h> yea
<greg-g> (whether or not it is the law in your state, it is the only, I repeat only, sensible conclusion other than separate bike and car and pedestrian lanes)
 * greg-g calms down, no one here is arguing with you greg
<greg-g> :)
 * rick_h hides from greg-g's wrath
<brousch> ug, bikers in the street are annoying
<brousch> i bump them to let them know i want to pass
<rick_h> brousch: and his 'swapping paint'
<brousch> speed limit is 45, y u go 10?
<rick_h> hey, I avg 12mph with stops thank you :P
<greg-g> rick_h++
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Can someone riddle me why bikes feel they don't have to stop for traffic signals?
<brousch> snap-l: because their riders will get tired
<greg-g> snap-l: that is a long standing debate in the biking world.
<snap-l> More than once I've seen a biker casually drift through an intersection
<greg-g> argument 1) your on the road, abide by the rules. QED.
<snap-l> and frankly I find it disrespectful
<snap-l> and unsafe
<brousch> i treat a bike like a drunken pedestrian in the street because that's how they behave
<rick_h> QED, that's new to me
 * rick_h learned him some new stuff today
<rick_h> brousch: and I treat drivers like cell phon yacking non-attention paying idiots because that's what they are
<brousch> going against the flow of traffic, weaving between cars, on and off the sidewalk, zipping through stop signs
<rick_h> I can see I'll be in an accident one day, too many people roll up into lights without looking
<snap-l> When I'm on a bike, I treat cars like I would if I were in a car: ready to give me a door prize
<greg-g> argument 2) bikes are inherently different things than cars and have much different affordances. rolling through a stop sign is safer than when a car does it because bikes are going orders of magnitude slower. Mostly, the point is: stop signs would not exist if it weren't for cars or really big bike intersections.
<snap-l> brousch: YYYYYYEEEEESSSSSSS.
<snap-l> greg-g: Argument 2 is unsafe.
<greg-g> I'm not taking sides, just explaining my udnerstanding of the arguments
<greg-g> so are cars, inherently
<brousch> i think 1in 10 bikes i see on the road are riding reasonably
<snap-l> greg-g: And the infrastructure is designed with cars as 1st class citizens
<greg-g> I am more likely to get brain damage from using a car properly than I am from ridinig a bike, but I'm forced to wear a helmet on my bike (there is a good TED talk on this very topic)
<greg-g> snap-l: rightfully or wrongfully, correct, it was. Things are changing, luckily.
<brousch> speed kills!
<snap-l> greg-g: Tell that to the guy I know who managed to smack his melon on his bike in a car crash
<brousch> greg-g: i assume there are more bike lanes in hippiville
<greg-g> brousch: actually, not at all
<snap-l> brousch: YEah, the taxis love 'em.
<greg-g> brousch: we just ride in the road, where we are supposed to be, and drivers out here finally fucking got the message that we are supposed to be there
<snap-l> greg-g: If I'm behind a bike, I'll go their speed
<snap-l> but that's a respect for being on the road
<snap-l> I expect bikes to also respect the laws of the road
<brousch> http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-to-be-sponsored-by-blue-systems
<greg-g> snap-l: there's always going to be people who hurt their head on a bike, just like there is always going to be people who don't get in car accidents, but the numbers show a reality that is different than our conceptions
<snap-l> ergo, respect stop signs, respect lanes and flows of traffic
<snap-l> and if you don't, expect consequences.
<rick_h> brousch: saw that and that blue systems needs a real website
<rick_h> who are they? what do they do? all I see is "Sponsors kde stuff"
<greg-g> yeah, like tickets. I've gotten a ticket for not having my lights on my bike at night. luckily I got the fine waived by showing them (the police station) I have lights. Just like you would if you had a burnt out light on a car.
<snap-l> greg-g: Again, respect.
<brousch> rick_h: hah, ok, yeah that is a sad website
<snap-l> Drifting through a red light / stop sign shows no respect
<snap-l> and that in turn angers drivers, rightly or wrongly.
<rick_h> snap-l: sorry, but wtf does that have to do with "respect" respect for what? You a driver? the laws of the road, the inconvienced poeple that happen to see it?
<rick_h> it shows people are idiots, I see people in cars roll through red lights, pink lights, etc
<rick_h> idiots are everywhere, enjoy the world :)
<snap-l> rick_h: Traffic flows work because everyone on the road respects the same laws
<greg-g> right, just like the majority of drivers in A2 were effing disrepectful to me the entire time. I was called names for doing what I was legally required to do and not given "respect" each time they passed me (I routintely touched cars as they passed, which was a violation of the laws).
<greg-g> so, the respect argument is great, in theory, but fails miserably in reality
<rick_h> please, no one in MI respects the laws
<greg-g> snap-l: that is a fallacy (traffic flow works) ask any city planner ;)
<brousch> i see the slow speed as the biggest issue
<greg-g> brousch: define issue
<greg-g> I see the almost killing me as the biggest issue ;)
<brousch> at best a bike is going 20mph in a 35mph zone, while cars are going 40mph
<snap-l> Yes, and when a biker rolls trhough an intersection and becomes an art-deco hood ornament, I'm sure they'll feel righteous indignation at the cars who were obeying the traffic lights.
<brousch> the slow speed causes anger. anger leads to hatred
<greg-g> snap-l: that is a non sequitor
<snap-l> greg-g: Regardless, it pisses me off
<greg-g> fair
<snap-l> And whether argument 1 or argument 2 is right, I want there to be some understanding that we can all agree on
<greg-g> so, helmets and seat belt laws, where is wolfger when you need him?
<snap-l> if bikes are somehow above the traffic laws, we need to know
<snap-l> and yes, respect is a two-way street (pardon the pun), and it pisses me off when cars don't afford bikes the same courtesy.
<greg-g> snap-l: just like motorcycles are above them (ie: motorcycles have different affordances and have different laws, like they can "split lanes" and ride between two cars if they deam it safe)
<greg-g> yay puns!
<greg-g> at least, the lane splitting is legal here
<snap-l> greg-g: And that too pisses me off
<greg-g> not sure about MI, honestly
<greg-g> snap-l: why, it is what the law says they can do?
<greg-g> respect the law
<brousch> they can share lanes, i don't know about going between cars
<snap-l> greg-g: If the law says it's legal, I'll get over it
<snap-l> but experience tells me it's generally not safe to do so
<greg-g> I may have mis-represented: they can go between cars (ie: between the two lanes of a 4 lane road) at a stop light/stsop sign if traffic is backed up
 * snap-l is for simple, clear rules when it comes to traffic. :)
<greg-g> and I reall ythink they can split lanes  here in CA on the highway.... /me doesn't care enough to look it up
<greg-g> they do, at least :)
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting#Legal_status
<snap-l> God bless Wikipedia
<greg-g> awesome
<greg-g> CA is unique in this
<greg-g> interesting
<snap-l> Again, if I know it's possible, I won't be surprised / angered.
 * greg-g nods
<brousch> wow, i see that all the time
<snap-l> brousch: Me too, especially on I696
<snap-l> and Hall Road, home of the douchebags
<greg-g> I find it not annoying at stop signs, makes sense, they accelerate SOO much faster (even when not trying) that they should be allowed to do it as it only increases the efficiency of the traffic
<greg-g> (ie: gets them out of the way)
<brousch> oh wow, i didn;t see that riddell is leaving canonical to work on kubuntu
<brousch> that is cool
<jjesse> pretty exiting
<jjesse> the concern is the name/trademark
<_stink_> oh man nice scrollback to go through here, thanks guys
<jjesse> as if Canonical will allow them to continue w/ the trademark
<jjesse> if not they have to change
<greg-g> _stink_: hehe
<greg-g> jjesse: it would just have to be called "The Ubuntu KDE Remix" or something else stupid ;)
<jjesse> would they be allowed to use Ubuntu
<greg-g> yeah
<jjesse> especially if it was for a commercial use
<greg-g> the Remix name can be used as long as you use ubuntu.com repos
<jjesse> ah
<greg-g> see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-February/001215.html
<jjesse> interesting
<greg-g> there was a big hoop la about the Ubuntu Business Remix (Canonical driven) using ubuntu.com repos PLUS a canonical.com repo that had proprietary software in it
<jjesse> ubuntu business remix doesn't seem like a good idea
<jjesse> nothing really different
<greg-g> just some change in defaults
<_stink_> man, argument 2) is insance.
<_stink_> er
<greg-g> like not having gwibber
<_stink_> insane.
<jjesse> yeah it is
<greg-g> _stink_: now now, you missed the fun, lets not open this back up ;)
<_stink_> i know, i need to be reading here more
<greg-g> hehe
<_stink_> now i will suffer
<jrwren> lane splitting is NOT legal in MI
<greg-g> jrwren: right, only in CA
<jrwren> amazing world.
<jjesse> i'm trying to figure out if it is snowing or hailing
<jjesse> or some other weird ice/snow mix
<rick_h> jjesse: it's very confused out there today
<rick_h> and I think my sinus's etc are getting cranky at the adjustments being made
<krondor> snap-l:  re: drivers showing respsect for road, jerks actually improve traffic flow;
<krondor> http://physicsbuzz.physicscentral.com/2009/07/jerks-actually-reduce-risk-of-traffic.html
<greg-g> krondor: nice
<greg-g> I've always loved it when fluid dynamics people analyze traffic flow
<greg-g> ever wondered how those Free Conf Call systems stay afloat? I did, now I don't http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_pumping
<jrwren> wow.
<jrwren> sweet info greg-g
<jrwren> wow... i actually side wtih ATT against GOOG and Skype.
<jrwren> if you can dial phone numbers, you shouldn't be blocked.
<jrwren> i guess i'm old school.
<jrwren> now, that said, if you want to proxy access to a number with a VRU credit card collecting toll system, i'm fine with that too.
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Honestly, I think those rural telecom fees are bullshit
 * greg-g hasn't really thought about telco policy for too long to comment
<jrwren> snap-l: why? Should the rural simply not have telephone or even electricity?
<snap-l> First off, the government created these problems (the cost sharing)
<jrwren> that is true.
<jrwren> but not bad.
<snap-l> And frankly, SKype and Google are not common carriers
<jrwren> esp if we have a government of the people, by the people and for hte people ;)
<jrwren> not being common does not mean you get to play by different rules. I hope.
<snap-l> They need to revisit the phone system. I'd wager most, if not all of this traffic is IP anyway.
<brousch> http://gawker.com/5899787/finding-goatse-the-mystery-man-behind-the-most-disturbing-internet-meme-in-history
<jrwren> brousch: no way in hell am i clicking that.
<greg-g> is that SFW?
<snap-l> jrwren: It hopefully means that we can cut off a lot of legacy bullshit that has dogged the phone companies since the 1920s
<brousch> greg-g: so far
<snap-l> jrwren: I'd love for AT&T to be competitive
<snap-l> I don't want Google and Skype dragged down to ensure it
<jrwren> so that raises the question: should the values of rural electrification and rural telefony be extended to IP?
<snap-l> jrwren: My silent libertarian says it's not the govt's responsibility to make sure your outhouse flushes.
<jrwren> what does your practical american say?
<greg-g> brousch: wow, thanks. (also, obvs, links from that story are NSFW)
<snap-l> jrwren: That we'll all bear the brunt for 80 years of bandaids.
<brousch> some dirty talk in the middle of the article
<snap-l> Honestly, every time I look at the regulation of phone service, it just reeks of spur-of-the-moment fixing
<snap-l> nobody pictured the phone company as we have it today
<snap-l> (500 non-competitive fiefdoms)
<greg-g> I have a great book on the topic (telco regulation history) but I haven't read it since 2007
<greg-g> ugh, working with people who send html-only email and badly formated .docx files :/
<greg-g> (conf planner contractor)
<brousch> you poor little thing :P
<brousch> welcome to my every day
<greg-g> brousch: hey, I chose to work in an environment that discouraged that sort of thing (though, we do use google docs way too much). :)
<brousch> let me send you some PDFs that won't open or print without hitting your swap for 4GB
<jrwren> i encourage you to get over it.
<ColonelPanic001> my favorite it is "please see attached PDF for an important announcement by X"
<ColonelPanic001> the attached PDF is three lines long
<jrwren> i like to reply to a lot of that shit with stuff like "I read my mail on my phone and my phone can't read your messages. Can you change teh way you work?"
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: I have a buddy who has a financial advisor who sends him emails that consist of nothing other than a signature and an attached DOC file. The DOC is where the content is. Apparently, the system they use does this so it can automatically generate a paper trail :)
<ColonelPanic001> greg-g: I hadn't thought of that, admittedly
<ColonelPanic001> I still hate it though. For the record, or something.
<brousch> couldn't they just BCC all outgoing mail to a print spool?
<jrwren> how does it automatically generate a paper trail? its still just as stupid as originally suggested.
<greg-g> I assume they are writing their emails within some system not a normal email client, but I have no clue
<greg-g> correction: "emails"
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l>  Probably on a VAX using Word Perfect
<snap-l> that just happens to have a .doc export
<brousch> word perfect may be correct. it is still used in many law firms
<snap-l> http://linuxmafia.com/wpfaq/downloadwp8.html
<snap-l> http://practical-tech.com/operating-system/linux/wordperfect-for-linux-lives-on-sort-of/326/
<snap-l> Before jumping into this project, be certain to carefully read Moenâs FAQ. There are many ways an installation can go wrong on modern systems. The program also lacks support support for many fonts. It will also fail on attempting to import any Word file later than Word 97, and it will fail, period, on importing any Word file if the system date is set later than September 9, 2001.
<greg-g> lol
<snap-l> TIL: Corel still sells Word Perfect
<snap-l> Thought it was pretty much abandonware
<rick_h> ok, bookmarklet for the http://readable.bmark.us on the front page. I've got to work on the css and get it shared between Bookie and thisservice but cool to try out
<rick_h> there we go, little prettier
<rick_h> http://readable.bmark.us/view/http%3A%2F%2Fsportsillustrated.cnn.com%2Fbaseball%2Fmlb%2Fgameflash%2F2012%2F04%2F10%2F40548_recap.html%3Fsct%3Dmlb_t2_a3
<greg-g> rick_h: weird, gnome-terminal doesn't like those links
<rick_h> hmm, wonder if it's because of the escaped http and such is there twice
<greg-g> could not open the address "http://........" Operation not supported
<greg-g> probably?
<rick_h> bet it blows up the regex ?
<greg-g> though the underline is right, and I can copy/paste just fine
<rick_h> meh, switch to urxvt :P
<greg-g> this, my good sir, in a bug
<greg-g> s/in/is/
<rick_h> I broke it! yay!
<greg-g> rick_h: your local fuzz tester
<snap-l> I fucking HATE unicode in ython
<greg-g> you should try python
<rick_h> yea, it's got great unicode support :)
<snap-l> Well, the beauty is it doesn't fail in nose
<snap-l> but it fails in real life.
<rick_h> then your test input doesn't match your real input
<snap-l> No, it's because somewhere in this code, Python is being a bitch
<snap-l> right around the print statement
<snap-l> and no amount of unicoercion is making it work.
<snap-l> Could I pester you to look at this:
<snap-l> https://github.com/craigmaloney/shownotes/tree/
<snap-l> python src/shownotes.py -j tests/test_files/playlist_instr_005.json -a tests/test_files/open_metalcast_instrumetalcast_005.aup -c > tests/response_nonascii.py
<jcastro> rick_h: I broke down and got that proliant microserver
<jcastro> since robbie got like 8 of them
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, I was tempted, but man...once you get that + 4 disks...you're up to $1k again
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> I have a server and a disk array already though
<jcastro> this neatley combines them into one box so I can get rid of them
<rick_h> yea, good stuff
<jcastro> I have this old dell clamshell desktop as a "server"
<rick_h> yea,I was using a desktop but requires too much maint.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-11
<rick_h> waldo323: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/753052/strip-html-from-strings-in-python
<jrwren> any pythonists notice urandom gone from os module after upgrading to precise (I think that is what did it) ?
<jrwren> bah, just had to redo virtualenv :(
<jrwren> not nearly as nice as rvm
<jrwren> but still better than nothing.
<snap-l> Oh FFS
<snap-l> rick_h: I think I figured out the problem
<snap-l> the redirect that I'm doing is somehow being treated as ASCII, not unicode.
<snap-l> That's why nosetests is working
<snap-l> and why the redirect fails
<rick_h> snap-l: wtf, terminal not unicode? does it even hit your terminal when you do a redirect?
<rick_h> Blazeix: http://blog.brightbox.co.uk/posts/next-generation-ruby-packages-for-ubuntu
<snap-l> rick_h: I have NFC why the redirect was causing the problem
<snap-l> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-bugs-list/2007-February/037279.html
<snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4545661/unicodedecodeerror-when-redirecting-to-file
<rick_h> snap-l: guess it's time to add a -o flag to your script
<snap-l> rick_h: Nah, it's an easy fix to wrap stdout.
<snap-l> most of the time I don't need it redirected, so that's why it never came up
<snap-l> rick_h: Thank you very much for looking into this last night, though. I guess I need to learn more about 2.x's unicode support.
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, definitely. You'll hit it a lot at work as you work with things
<rick_h> morpace does a significant amount of spanish/chinese stuff that'll hit unicode issues
<rick_h> check out qmail sometime. It's got to handle unicode on the db side, in the file uploads, etc
<rick_h> ugh
<brousch> just move it all to python3
<rick_h> now you're talking!
<rick_h> beat me to my first python3 code
<brousch> really?
<brousch> you still haven't used it?
<rick_h> brousch: just for other people's packagse I've had to hack with/do releases for
<rick_h> brousch: but no, I don't have a script in my toolbox with #!/usr/bin/env python3
<brousch> pyramid is on py3. you have no excuse
<rick_h> brousch: sure I do
<rick_h> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/requirements.txt
<brousch> geez
<rick_h> bookie is bigger than it seems :)
<brousch> break out all requirements without py3 into their own oldcrap.py service
<rick_h> heh, but then you coudln't build/serve JS files, do readable parsing, encrypt passwords, do sqlalchemy migrations, etc
<rick_h> it's down to a handfull of packages though
<rick_h> I could look at making the new readable service thing python3 except the readable library isn't python3 and heroku doesn't support it
<rick_h> damn, backup to nas still going. 38hrs and running
<rick_h> almost up to 600GB...damn slow thing
<brousch> that's right, heroku doesn't have it yet. GAE either
<brousch> i think webfaction does, but they're not free
<snap-l> I have used the word Goose-greaser in a work e-mail
<brousch> do you work on a pultry farm?
<brousch> or a poultry farm?
<rick_h> wow, I'm a little bit dying to know how you fit that into something
<brousch> yeah, snap-l, how did you fit a greased goose into something? and into what did you fit it?
<rick_h> and did it fit better with the greasing?
<brousch> and what did you use as grease?
<snap-l> It's working off of a cooking analogy that was given to me
<snap-l> ie: it's easier to have 10 cooks get 1/10th of the flour you need than for 10 cooks to spread crisco on a goose.
<snap-l> It's like the analogy equivalant of manna from heaven.
<rick_h> ummm, wow
<rick_h> ugh, I don't feel like working today
<brousch> seems like a 10 man goose greasing would go quickly
<rick_h> I just want to hack on my own code
<brousch> rick_h: that makes for a long day
<rick_h> brousch: yea, well had to start my day by rolling back a code change and getting two new sets of code reviews to fix more stuff so ugh
<brousch> code reviews sound incredibly boring
<rick_h> they're actually pretty good
<rick_h> http://www.daniweb.com/software-development/news/420497/why-software-engineer-is-officially-americas-best-job
<rick_h> didn't realize that broadcaster and butcher were such bad gigs
<snap-l> Broadcasters love to bitch
<snap-l> frankly I wouldn't want a job as a broadcaster, though. Too much pressure to operform, and the constant looming threat that your job may evaporate overnight
<snap-l> especially now that "traditional media" is getting supplanted.
<snap-l> My friend that worked on West Michigan radio is quite happy working on car restoration
<snap-l> http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/demotivational-posters-history.jpg
<rick_h> ok, I'm not into windows bashing atm, but that's kind of funny
<brousch> rick_h: then you're not using it enough ;)
<rick_h> brousch: I never use it!
<brousch> see, that's why you have no urge to bash it
<rick_h> works for me :)
<brousch> what does your wife use?
<rick_h> brousch: she uses windows and ubuntu
<rick_h> but I've gotten myself out of most involvement
<brousch> me too. then she went 6 months without updating and caught something
<brousch> now the regular beatings will begin again
<rick_h> heh
<jrwren> lol @ caught something.
<brousch> penguicon should just say it's an unconference
<greg-g> brousch: +1
<greg-g> an unconference with the planning done before hand, quasi-unconference
<rick_h> heh
<brousch> well then they just need to set the date and location and not worry about talks
<rick_h> I don't know how well that works for multi-day things
<rick_h> which day do I show up, how long do I stay. I think unconference would work best with a limited scope
<_stink_> yeah, i think they have a happy medium
<_stink_> i have to say i'm encouraged by the schedule so far
<_stink_> more like ~4 years ago
<brousch> rick_h: you come all days and stay the whole time
<rick_h> brousch: ummm, nope
<brousch> barcampify it
<snap-l> Nah, I think it needs the scheduling
<snap-l> I mean, would ou want a flashmob of furries in the middle of your ipv6 talk?
<snap-l> That would not be a route to happiness.
 * waldo323_ shudders... furries
<waldo323_> isn't notacon planned more like an unconference?
<greg-g> ipv6 talk... route to happiness, lol
<_stink_> snap-l++
<waldo323_> I think we'd be open to having portions of penguicon setup for open tech talks, not sure how barcamp works   /me goes to google
<waldo323_> hmm if there is space when would we want a barcamp event and for how long? and what would we need?
<brousch> no talks scheduled before the conference. you have a grid of time slots and rooms and people sign up as they go
<rick_h> I think that'd be a cool way to do the tech track. Make it a bit split of space. Show up with a board and 'tracks' for things like networking, hacker, development or something nad just fill the board/do it
<brousch> you'd to make sure the rooms you pick for tech have projectors
<rick_h> by track, makers bring real crap
<rick_h> if you're not showing code just talk, be engaging
<rick_h> make all the agile folks do their presenations without their pretty images on slides
<waldo323_> today is cutoff for the program book but we could still potentially add barcamp slots
<rick_h> naw, wouldn't mess with this year
<waldo323_> ok
<rick_h> but I wonder if it would help the tech track next year, unconference within a conference
<waldo323_> i like it
<rick_h> I might even be willing to help with something like that if it was limited scope. Kind of a Sat for your tech needs thing
<snap-l> Just got a CD from INdia
<waldo323_> sat as in satellite?
<rick_h> for metalcast?
<rick_h> waldo323_: Sat as in saturday
<snap-l> rick_h: Yep
<rick_h> e.g. not Fri-Sun all day
<waldo323_> ah
<snap-l> http://burnthewater.bandcamp.com/
<waldo323_> that would be great
<rick_h> cool snap-l
<snap-l> Yeah, loving this global community we have
<snap-l> "This EP was recorded using a 10$ mic, 120$ guitar, a cheap ZOOM processor onto a (really old) Celeron pc. So all donations to this EP directly goes to the artist for funding his upcoming projects/albums."
<snap-l> DUde charged $2 for the disc
<snap-l> granted, it's a CD-R, but still, I'm impressed.
<rick_h> 061483
<snap-l> BINGO!
<rick_h> damn
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h> been doing so good lately at not hitting it
<waldo323_> is there any bad blood between foocamp and barcamp?
<brousch> does foocamp still exist?
<waldo323_> not sure, doesn't look like it but i wanted to know more than the websites are saying if it was known
<waldo323_> esp if we were able to get someone from o'reilly
<waldo323_> seemed like there may or may not be from  http://barcamp.org/w/page/402874/FooCamp
<brousch> i haven't heard of any bad blood. heck o'reilly was a sponsor at barcampgr
<snap-l> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120410/07284618438/open-textbook-startup-sued-allegedly-copying-distinctive-selection-arrangement-presentation-facts-existing-titles.shtml <- Fuck Pearson, FUck Cengage, and Fuck Macmillian.
<waldo323_> ok cool
<waldo323_> no to snap-l's
<waldo323_> er the fact that its happening anyway... opentextbook shouldn't be bogged down with that icky-ness
<rick_h> it is a little bit cheesy
<greg-g> I agree with the fsck statements, but this case is a bit weird and I'm not sure what is goign to happen
<greg-g> it will have repurcussions which ever way it goes
<llua> :|
<snap-l> greg-g: This is the same look and feel bullshit that Apple did in the 1980s with the macintosh
<snap-l> IT's the presentation of information
<greg-g> kind of
<greg-g> except they say directly: we take their content, and find replacements for everything, and repackage it as a repalcement book
<snap-l> greg-g: and they haven't sued every other publisher? :)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> publishers advertise how their stuff is unique and cutting edge
<greg-g> boundless says it is a replacement aligning to the same content
<greg-g> basically, the publishers could have chosen to sue Open.Michigan for doing similar things (re-creating illustrations in our OER) but they chose to go after the one that has A) the worst visuals (ie: how the judge and public will see them, and how easy it'll be to make them look bad, I mean, for fucks sake, the CEO's headshot includes a 4 inch pop'ed collar!) and B) they can get statutory damanges from boundless, not so for UMich
<snap-l> This and the SOPA stuff have sealed it for me
<snap-l> They are decidedly against that which they stand for
<greg-g> what do they stand for?
<greg-g> they stand for profit making, that is all
<greg-g> they choose to do it by selling stuff to schools
<snap-l> Freedom of expression
<snap-l> learning
<greg-g> where does it say that?
<snap-l> They're a publisher
<greg-g> and....
<snap-l> if there's no freedom of speech, they don't exist.
<greg-g> publishers started out as the mouth peice of the monarchy
<greg-g> think that publishers have some sort of freedom is a thing which only existed in the US after we kicked the brits butts
<greg-g> and then, we were considered pirates
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> the statute of anne, the first law governing the making of copies (ie: copyright law) was a law that gave monopolies to the publishers that the queen liked. If the queen didn't like them, she chose not to give them the ability to print.
<greg-g> (that's just your factoid of the day re copyright ;) )
<greg-g> so, snap-l, I would love to think that today's publishers stand for something that could be considered an "ideal" but I have become EXTREMELY jadded recently and see that any corporation is only out for one thing: profit. If it doesn't make them profit, they don't do it, nevermind if there is some other higher meaning.
<greg-g> snap-l: just saying: sorry if I came across in any way other than "publishers are only out for money, ideals don't mean anything to them, thus, this lawsuit is perfectly logical for them"
<snap-l> There are publishers that don't act like assclowns
<snap-l> GOod publishers
<snap-l> and I want to support that
<snap-l> and tell the asshats where they can go
<brousch> they only act nice to sucker in the freetards
<greg-g> right, but I don't think O'Reilly/whoever would be terribly happy if someone made a service that purported to be making replacement books based on their structure :/
<greg-g> brousch: I didn't want to say it.... ;)
<brousch> it's only logical
<greg-g> brousch: but that elludes to something that I've unfortunately used: the business case for opennes. Subsuming the ethical case with cold hard economics :)
<brousch> well, a business is in business to make money. if they weren't, they'd be a nonprofit
<greg-g> right
<brousch> and suddenly i understand apple
<greg-g> ?
<brousch> they exist to make money, not to make users happy
<greg-g> right
<greg-g> this is news?
<brousch> i haven't put much thought into it
<greg-g> they make addictive products and sell them in a way only cults could love, which is great to make money
<rick_h> I don't want to be the bad guy, but if I setup a class I earned a living teaching, and someone copied the class structure, notes, order, and offered it next door...I'm not sure I'd be a happy camper either
<greg-g> I really think I see similarities between Apple conferences and MLM/Pyramid Scheme conferences
<brousch> rick_h: for free!
<greg-g> rick_h: totally understand. But there is this concept in (C)-law that is referred to the "idea/expression divide" which basically just states that the only thing that is protected/restricted by copyright is the expression, not the underlying idea.
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, I understand. And the fact that publishers have a history that make people cranky with them to start doesn't help
<greg-g> if there wasn't that divide, Wikipedia couln't have existed because someone, somewhere, had already written about all those topics
<rick_h> but that's why I say it's a but slimy vs illegal
<snap-l> rick_h: You have no idea how education works, and how many teachers yoink things. :)
<greg-g> rick_h: /me nods
<snap-l> and how many educators believe they're not bound by copyright
<greg-g> heh, yeah, yoinking happens everywhere ;)
<rick_h> snap-l: I have an idea or three, but I find it too easy to put the thing in terms I could agre with them with
<snap-l> rick_h: AS a publisher who cares about selling books, I'd be pissed
<snap-l> as a publisher who cares about education, I'd be flattered.
<snap-l> Guarantee you, if you took 5 intro to blah books, they'd all look extremely similar
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, but take it away from books. I make a bike part that makes bikes a little bit safer. Someone comes along and gives away a version that's close, free (cause safety is deserved by all) and .0125" smaller than mine so it's not a direct copy
<snap-l> and if this case succeeds, it'll have far-reaching effects on trade dress
<snap-l> rick_h: And that's where patents come in
<snap-l> which don't apply to ideas, just to manufacturing
<rick_h> yea, I guess, but the layout/structure/order/visuals/etc of a book meant to teach is a bit more than an idea
<rick_h> and the reason they can copy it is because it's manufactured and put on shelves
<snap-l> Back to books: if someone decided that the D&D monster manual was some form of copyrightable trade dress (Stats, picture, description) there'd be a lot of crying
<snap-l> Classes follow a certain flow. You'd be hard pressed to learn about advanced physics without first learning about force / motion
<greg-g> oh no, we made the jump to bike analogies while I wasn't looking!
<greg-g> ;)
<brousch> wtf happened to cars?
<snap-l> Granted there may be some extreme similarities between the two books, but frankly this is ridiculous
<rick_h> greg-g: bwuhahaha
<greg-g> brousch: apparently rick_h is now a hippie too :)
<rick_h> brousch: didn't you hear, the auto industry is dead
<greg-g> haha
<snap-l> It's a text book. There's going to be similarities
<rick_h> hey, I almost bike more than ride in the car these days
<greg-g> rick_h: NICE!
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, but this isn't *some* it's *copying*
<greg-g> ... the idea not the expression, but yeah
<snap-l> "It's a desktop metaphor. Clearly it's Apple's copyrighted material"
<greg-g> lemme find some good examples from Open.Michigan
<greg-g> lemme finish this important email first. :)
<rick_h> heh, no work!
<snap-l> greg-g: This is not important. :)
<brousch> i think greg-g actually gets paid for this now
<brousch> "muggle education" or something
<brousch> hm, this looks pretty nice http://semantic.gs/
<brousch> i hate grids where i have grid info in my divs
<rick_h> not flexible width...die in a fie
<rick_h> fire that is
<brousch> it can be fluid
<rick_h> ok, nvm my bad for quick read
<brousch> @total-width: 100%; // Switch from pixels to percentages
<greg-g> https://open.umich.edu/wiki/Casebook
<greg-g> see the Charts, Graphs, Scietific Images, Chemical Structures, etc sections
 * greg-g had a hand in that https://open.umich.edu/wiki/index.php?title=Casebook&action=history
<rick_h> greg-g: that's interesting
<greg-g> it'll break you mind wrt how you think about copyright and content if you let it :)
<rick_h> greg-g's motto https://twitter.com/#!/hadleybeeman/status/190093792366440448
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, my argument is totallythe whole "how I *feel* about this ethically" vs legally
<greg-g> rick_h: lol
<greg-g> rick_h: and I respect that, but just know that when I push back or give hypotheticals to try and poke holes in the lack of consistency... just remember that tweet :P
<rick_h> :)
<jrwren> greg-g: i prefer to let Free Culture break my mind on those topics, tyvm
<greg-g> jrwren: to each their own ;)
<greg-g> honestly, since this channel isn't publicly logged anymore, I'm surprised we were sent a nastry gram just because of that wiki page
<greg-g> s/were/weren't/
<jrwren> oh?
 * _stink_ posts all his logs
<greg-g> yeah, I mean, it is backed up by court cases that support our arguments, but, that page represents the very thing which boundless is being sued over
<jrwren> greg-g: you mean just linking that page?
<snap-l> This channel is logged
<greg-g> jrwren: rather, the stated policy (-ish) of Open.Michigan
<greg-g> snap-l: publicly?
<greg-g> oh, hey, ubuntulo12 is here
<snap-l> ubuntu-mi is logged
<brousch> ah, crap. there goes my political career
<greg-g> I thought he left
<snap-l> Yeah, was fixed near the begining of the year.
<greg-g> dangit
<snap-l> I sent you all a memo
<greg-g> you know i don't read memos
<snap-l> ergo...
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> heh, well then http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/04/11/%23ubuntu-us-mi.txt
<snap-l> Not following where we'd get flamed, though
<greg-g> we? sorry, bad grammer/punctuation on my part. I meant: I'll say this in here since we're no longer logged: surprised we (Open.Michigan) wasn't sent a nastrygram for just the existence of that page (and examples of where we published content based on its assumptions/assertions)
<rick_h> ah, that makes more sense
 * greg-g goes back to grammar skul
<jrwren> lol
 * jrwren puts greg-g in the english grammer slammer
<_stink_> slammar?
<jrwren> and you'll get a C!
<jrwren> greg-g: that page only confuses me.
<jrwren> e.g. on the michigan seal.
<jrwren> In addition, it is a creative piece of expression, although as a government work, it is not protected by copyright law.
<jrwren> but by that standard, every professors publication is a government work.
<jrwren> yet the are (c) and published by journals.
<greg-g> jrwren: you're my source of understanding corporations/free market: how does the last sentence in this article make logical sense: http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2012/04/doj-terms-settlement-ebook/
<greg-g> jrwren: state gov != fed gov. Only fed gov't work (some exceptions) is not restricted by (C)
<greg-g> state gov and city/muncipal govs retain (C) in their creations
<jrwren> greg-g: interesting, thanks.
<jrwren> greg-g: it doesn't.
<greg-g> the restrictions include: work the fed govt contracted can be restricted by (C) (sometimes) and works that the fed govt acquired
<jrwren> greg-g: last sentence is (R) free market propoganda b.s.
<jrwren> last paragraph, even.
<greg-g> also, it is only PD in the US, the Fed govt can enforce its international copyright in works it created if it so chose
<greg-g> jrwren: that's what I thought, thanks :)
<greg-g> "he Pepper Spray Used, the MK-9, First Aerosol Projector, Was Not an
<greg-g> Authorized Weapon for Use by the UCDPD"
<greg-g> How do cops get supplied unauthorized weapons?!
<greg-g> this may not be news for the Michigan crowd, but you may have saw the UC Davis pepper spray incident?
<greg-g> the report from the independent commission is out today http://reynosoreport.ucdavis.edu/reynoso-report.pdf
<snap-l> greg-g: I believe it went national
<greg-g> ah, probably did. I get so scewed of what is national/local anymore with the intarweb
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> But yeah,this is going to be interesting
<snap-l> But I'm not surprised
<brousch> i'm sure cops have different weapons for different circumstances - like big ass guns when a perp has a rocket launcher
<snap-l> s/rocket launcher/lollipop/
<greg-g> brousch: yes, but they are all pre-approved
<greg-g> you don't just go down to the gun store to arm a police station
<greg-g> cops must be trained in the use of their approved weapons
<greg-g> key paragraph:
<brousch> right, but they have to choose what to use for each circumstance
<greg-g> "Lt. Pike is also responsible for the specific pepper spray weapon he used, the MK-9, and
<greg-g> the manner in which he used it. The MK-9 is not an authorized weapon under UCDPD
<greg-g> guidelines. UCDPD officers were not trained in how to use it correctly. And Lt. Pike did
<brousch> probably have a big pile of them in the trunk
<greg-g> not use it correctly. The MK-9 is a higher pressure type of pepper spray than what
<greg-g> officers normally carry on their utility belts
<greg-g> (MK-4). It is designed for crowd dispersal
<greg-g> rather than field applications and â[t]he recommended minimum distance for . . .
<greg-g> application of the MK-9 is six feet.â Lt. Pike appeared to be spraying protesters at a much
<greg-g> closer distance than 6 feet
<brousch> right, so it's an approved weapon, but wasn't used properly
<greg-g> brousch: yeah, they do, from an approved list.
<greg-g> no, it wasnot an authorized weapon. period
<brousch> well then he's hosed
<greg-g> "The MK-9 is not an authorized weapon under UCDPD guidelines"
<snap-l> All this to prove conclusively that this guy is an asshole
<brousch> of course the guidelines could say something like "the MK-4 is not approved for peaceful hippies, but is approved for rowdy fratboys"
<snap-l> greg-g: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/casually-pepper-spray-everything-cop
<brousch> but yeah, still an asshole
<greg-g> snap-l++
<greg-g> when cops don't follow their own guidelines, I stop respecting cops (fyi: this happened years ago)
<greg-g> bullies, the lot of them
<brousch> i can't blame them sometimes. my future brother in law is a cop and some of the stories he tells are crazy
<brousch> he's at wayne state
<_stink_> sorry
<brousch> you get rowdy, he will get to spray you
<greg-g> sure, hopefully with an approved weapon in the way he was trained to do it.
<greg-g> and "get to spray you" is putting it in a way that seems nefarious
<greg-g> "have to spray you" sounds more like what a cop should say
 * greg-g should log out of IRC for the rest of the week
<brousch> you have gotten very grumpy since you moved ;)
<_stink_> i like it.
<greg-g> I think I have, too
<greg-g> grumpy, and nit picky with language, etc
<brousch> they must take things too seriously out there. need to have more fun
<greg-g> I think it's a mixture of also dealing with annoying conference planners/hotel representatives when ITS NOT EVEN MY JOB
<_stink_> :O
<brousch> I'M NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE HERE TODAY
<snap-l> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/847271320/ogre-designers-edition
<greg-g> brousch: really? go home :)
<snap-l> Y'know, if facebook really wants to get into mobile, I think Nokia is pretty cheap nowadays.
<snap-l> Make them the official phone of facebook, and BOOM!
<snap-l> You can sepia the negative out of the instagram purchase.
<brousch> hm, and MS and FB aren't really competitors
<snap-l> It's a win win win win win
<jrwren> greg-g: you would think cops are trained in use of their weapons, but I'd not consider them trained
<jrwren> "All this to prove conclusively that this guy is an asshole"
<jrwren> *cough* cop *cough*
<snap-l> jrwren: I carefully chose my words
<snap-l> not all cops are assholes
<jrwren> agreed.
<snap-l> that said, I have run into some that definitely drag down the lot
<jrwren> but as long as we are making generalizations...
<snap-l> heh
<jrwren> when i was a child, i was always taught that police are here to help. to serve and protect.
<jrwren> i'm not teaching my kid that.
<jrwren> i'm teaching her that cops are out to get you.
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiX7GTelTPM
<jrwren> they'll try to pin something on you.
<snap-l> jrwren: ^^
<jrwren> they have to implement terrible laws
<jrwren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5gRIud57jQ
<jrwren> :)
<snap-l> I have that on CD
<snap-l> because I'm a BOSS
<jrwren> nice.
<greg-g> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLBEZoagX6o
 * greg-g can play that game, too ;)
<greg-g> or, maybe better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xnTW-4SVeE&feature=related
<greg-g> man that last song I linked is so good
<jrwren> dpz is always good.
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> bad version, the ending there is annoying (stupid youtuber) this one is better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_YKpSAJ3_o
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2mZVOd0jWY
<Blazeix> rick_h: have you seen http://www.meteor.com/main ?
<Blazeix> interesting, though the client-side db client gives me pause :)
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, seen the traffic, not watched the video
<rick_h> from what I've read it's rather immature and I've got enough going atm
<Blazeix> oh yeah, it's totally not ready for prime time, but it's an interesting step in dev workflow
<rick_h> yea, I saw about about the people behind it and I guess I should check it out
<rick_h> but honestly, had a @#$@ day and just not interested atm lol
<Blazeix> aw, sorry
<rick_h> all good, just explaining why I'm not my super eager "ooh something new to learn" self :)
<Blazeix> ruby beating the crap out of you, i understand :)
<rick_h> hah
<greg-g> rick_h: luckily, all the brogrammers on HackerNews won't touch it because it is GPL, you'll have the run of the place when you have time ;)
<rick_h> greg-g: heh yea saw some of that discussion as well
<rick_h> and when can we quit the brogrammer stuff? I'm getting close to a rant I think
<rick_h> the interwebs have been boiling things lately
<greg-g> "man! they're so lame, not letting me take their code and putting it into my properitary product and not give them anything! Such lame-os!"
<rick_h> Blazeix: shouldn't you be in a acar on the way here?
<greg-g> rick_h: fair
<greg-g> (re: brogrammers)
<greg-g> wait, if I keep using the term will that make you record a new rant?
<greg-g> brogrammer brogrammer brogrammer brogrammer brogrammer brogrammer
<greg-g> (its like buffalo)
<rick_h> no, because when this kettle boils I'm likely to say things that will get me in trouble
<greg-g> haha
<greg-g> then pretend you didn't see all those brogrammers I typed
<rick_h> between the women in programming stuff, the drinking while at conferences stuff, "hey dude, I hear you like some tests in your tests" crap...
<rick_h> gah!
<Blazeix> rick_h: yeah, still at work :) I should be there around 8:30
<greg-g> rick_h: get the politics out of your code, eh?
<rick_h> well at least be reasonable about it.
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> I mean...wtf...people like to drink when the socialize and not talk code 24/7 at a conference...who knew?
<rick_h> anyway, building up a lot of aingst, need to turn off HN/Reddit/etc
<Blazeix> yeah, you need to be careful with the word 'brogrammer'
<Blazeix> it seems to be turning into a synonym for 'someone who disagrees with me'
<rick_h> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-12
<jrwren> was it outkast that said something like "y aknow, as much as I hate this motha fucka, i love this mohta fucka "
<jrwren> that is the USA
<jrwren> GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!  5.5 weeks after i start a new job and I get offered a job for the #1 company on my list for whom to work #firstworldproblems
<rick_h> jrwren: dude, what's #1? I'm curious now
<rick_h> but awesome on getting the offer, major bummer on the timing
<greg-g> MS
<rick_h> so that was awesome, three new peeps at chc in one night
<Blazeix> yeah, it was a really fun night
<rick_h> *sigh* crossed 48hrs and still backing up to nas
<waldo323_> best case for getting called to help out with a virus... dad had it cleaned by the time I got there to help :)
<rick_h> yay1
<rick_h> yay! looks better
<Blazeix> sad. I tried to install meteor on my arch machine, and the installer says "Unable to install. Meteor supports RedHat and Debian"
<Blazeix> it's a god damn shell script. come on.
<rick_h> ouch
<Blazeix> cool, already a PKGBUILD for it
<snap-l> ugh
<snap-l> any way to d/l the shell script and overrie?
<Blazeix> i'll use the PKGBUILD, someone in the arch community already did the work
<Blazeix> it just downloads the deb and unpacks it, it looksl ike
<Blazeix> *looks like
<greg-g> wow, Blue Systems is growing
<greg-g> two canonical employees are now going to be working on Kubuntu there
<rick_h> yea, if only I could see wtf blue systems is
<greg-g> haha, yeah, there's still that :)
<snap-l> If only there were a commercial enterprise dedicated to contributing to KDE
<snap-l> Oh, wait, there are: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE#Commercial_enterprises
<Blazeix> ah yes, good old KlarÃ¤lvdalens Datakonsult AB
<snap-l> KDE, the FahrvergnÃ¼gen of the desktop
<rick_h> hey derekv, sounds like a familiar name
<derekv> hi
<derekv> anyways I saw about MUG on twitter
<derekv> I have you in my twitter feed.
<rick_h> ah, coolness
<derekv> something about "MUG" rang a bell, and I looked, and I was like, hey look that guy holding up a mic preamp (or whatever that is) lives in mi, and there's a thing going on, and its a mile from my house, holy crap
<rick_h> lol, awesome, what's your twitter account?
<derekv> @derekverlee
<jrwren> xamarin was the #1 place
<smoser> snap-l, when you arrive, perhaps you can help
<smoser> http://askubuntu.com/questions/121288/installed-12-04-on-lenovo-x120e-now-i-cant-boot
<snap-l> smoser: I haven't run into that, fortunately
<snap-l> Though the last step that you did looks familiar
<snap-l> But after I couldn't boot, I wiped the machine and started fresh
<snap-l> smoser: I have just let Ubuntu do the partitioning rather than manually partition, because invariably if I set it up manually, it never works.
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<brousch> morn
<snap-l> Welcome, derekv. I'm the guy with the tank shirt.
<jrwren> good morning
 * brousch shudders at the thought of snap-l in a tank-top 
<jrwren> ditto
<brousch> jrwren: what's the best way to connect to a server from osx over sftp?
<brousch> finder does not seem to understand sft
<brousch> jrwren: nvm, i found it
<brousch> seems strange it's not installed by default
<jrwren> it is installed by default.
<jrwren> (venv)jwren@eng-6-70:{}~ $ which sftp
<jrwren> /usr/bin/sftp
<jrwren> it even integrates with KeyChain.App, which is good or bad depending on the type of user you are :)
<brousch> i mean no gui is installed and finder doesn't understand it
<brousch> i installed macfuse and sshfs
<brousch> dolphin and nautilus have spiled me
<jrwren> oh.
<jrwren> lol, nope, no gui AFAIK
<jrwren> I am a cmd line guy. i rarely use finder
<jrwren> and I never use dolphin or nautilus
<brousch> i need to copy gobs of files. that's annoying with command line sftp
<jrwren> that has not been my experience.
<rick_h> ok, cloud search is interesting from aws
<jrwren> agreed
<rick_h> might be the way to scale out bookie search if it ever gets big
<rick_h> vs setting up/managing solr servers
<rick_h> http://www.aviiq.com/pages/ready-clips ok pretty usb cables
<brousch> aws cloud search?
<snap-l> rick_h: Nice, but I can see those having limited functionality.
<brousch> amazon rolls out so much stuff i can't keep track
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, but nice travel functionality
<rick_h> brousch: you must follow the aws blog :)
<snap-l> you'd have to have your device parallel to the port.
<snap-l> It's a parallel port. ;)
<rick_h> http://aws.typepad.com/
<rick_h> they bend
<rick_h> but yea, not sure how much they'll hold a bend
<snap-l> rick_h: Like a SATA cable
<brousch> i'm such a cheap bastard. any price over $9.99/mo turns me off
<snap-l> Heh
<brousch> rick_h: did you look at https://github.com/klen/zeta-library ? supposed to be a more complete version of python-scss
<rick_h> brousch: no, seems like a lot more than I need to deal with
<rick_h> ugh, doctests...
<brousch> heh
 * brousch imagines rick_h putting away his APPROVED stamp and pulling out his REVOKED stamp
<rick_h> pretty much...
<rick_h> no I mean I just need the sass stuff which is in two files it looks like and seems ok
<rick_h> I don't see it providing the command line commands I need, but it's probably meta wrapped somewhere else
<rick_h> I'm pretty happy with pyscss
<rick_h> it's got some warts, but working well for me
<jrwren> snap-l: I just put on Alice In Chains' Facelift. It sounds great! I am noticing the lack of compression! :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Squeezebox?
<jrwren> yes
<brousch> ah, geekers, i was comparing to a different python-scss
<jrwren> snap-l: but i mean master compression, ya know?
<jrwren> not lossy compression
<snap-l> Is this a remastered version?
<jrwren> no
<jrwren> ripped by me from my 1993ish purchased CD
<jrwren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpmN2PH5uKg
<snap-l> jrwren: Just wondering why the sudden enthusiasm. ;)
<jrwren> oh, its been a while since I listened to an album that wasn't over produced I guess.
<rick_h> ok, this is a bit strange tbh: http://voices.canonical.com/ubuntuone/2012/04/12/a-sneak-peek-of-send-to-ubuntu-one/
<brousch> be nice for mobile
<brousch> for instance, if i find something i want while on android, i'd download it and move it to dropbox so it would be on my computer. this would do it all in one step
<rick_h> right so this seems for publishers not for normal consumers
<brousch> right
<rick_h> the site would have to support this, but then they've got something so tied into U1 and only U!
<brousch> i assume download to U1 would be one of many options
<brousch> download to Dropbox
<brousch> download old school
<snap-l> I think it's to complete with Amazon's cloud services
<snap-l> so when you buy music from places other than Ubuntu One (which I can't tell if it's still in business or not), you could have the tracks automagically sent to your cloud drive.
<snap-l> or your ebooks, or whatever
<snap-l> It's a bit of a catch-up move, but it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
<rick_h> right, but if you buy them from U1 it's already synced right? So this would have to be just third parties
<rick_h> well interesting I guess
<snap-l> Only for U1
<snap-l> but lets say they partner with Baen books
<snap-l> or emusic or any of the other online stores
<snap-l> Magnatune, for instance.
<snap-l> It opens it up outside of the U1 music store
<snap-l> which I'm wondering if 7digital backed out.
<snap-l> because they redesigned the site, and broke Banshee
<snap-l> Frankly, if they had an option that didn't require me to use the player, I'd use it more.
<rick_h> brousch: have you found a way to just play a whole artist in google music?
<snap-l> *squeezebox*
<brousch> on the web view, click Artists, select one, click Play
<rick_h> ugh, but if you search an artist you don't see it
<rick_h> and wtf, I hate when things include "The .." in sorting
<brousch> hm, searching an artist works for me. has a dropdown box with autocompleted artists
<rick_h> right, but select an artist and you get a list of albums
<rick_h> I want to play all content by that artist from that search results
<brousch> i get all of the songs
<rick_h> I get a result set of the artist with a block for each album
<brousch> the selections have a type by them
<rick_h> right, I got that
<snap-l> http://stores.7digital.com/default.aspx?shop=265&partner=983
<rick_h> so let's say I select "The Doors - artist"
<rick_h> I get a page with the 4 albums I have by them
<rick_h> I can play each album, but can't "play all doors" from here
<brousch> if you start playing one it just moves to the next automatically
<brousch> so at the end of the first album it will jump to the next
<brousch> basically whatever is on the screen when you start playing becomes your playlist
<brousch> and you can click around without messing it up. you can get back to it by clicking the little thumbnail rithg of the >> on the bottom. if you start playing something else, that becomes your new current playlist
<brousch> this seems really similar to juju http://adrian.org.ar/python/automatic-setup-of-django-nginx-and-gunicorn-on-ec2
<rick_h> a little bit, it doens't have the coordination between services and such it would seem
<rick_h> but a lightweight ec2 specific version sure
<rick_h> (so can't use this with lxc or such locally, HP cloud, etc)
<brousch> lxc?
<rick_h> light weight virtual machines
<rick_h> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LXC
<greg-g> now, that was neat. I'm using mosh (mosh.mit.edu) and this ssh session just kept on trucking after resume from suspend after 2 days :)
<rick_h> very cool
<greg-g> (I mean, I had to screen -raAd since I took over the screen session at home, but, whatever)
<jrwren> LXC is just modern vserver
<jrwren> juju rules can work with LXC ?
<jrwren> i'm too afraid to try mosh.
<jrwren> whoa... libvirt LXC support. this is new to me. sounds awesome.
<jrwren> holy shit, if I can testdrive with LXC!!! that would be so sweet!
<krondor> jrwren:  aye, juju docs actually encourage lxc for local testing before you rack up your costs on ec2 or something.
<jrwren> all the packages, but single kernel.
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, a lot of the juju work is done locally via lxc
<jrwren> krondor: ty, that is awesome.
<rick_h> LP is using lxc to do parallel test runs. Break the tests up into parts, fire up LXC on a multi core machine, and let each LXC crank through the tests
<jrwren> ha!
<rick_h> think they tested it on a large ec2 box with 8 or 16 'cores' and got testing from 6hrs to 50min
<jrwren> integration tests I assume?
<rick_h> all tests
<jrwren> impressive.
<rick_h> 17k+ of them
<jrwren> if they are unit tests they should be able to run in parallel without even the overhead of LXC
<jrwren> there must be some state that requires isolation?
<rick_h> yea, I'm not on teh team so not sure how they split the workload
<rick_h> yea, zope provides some test tools for creating isolated 'layers' during runs. I'm not into how it all works yet
<rick_h> but that's also JS tests, background tests, all kinds of crap
<rick_h> http://benjamin.mako.hill.usesthis.com/ awesome in so many ways
<rick_h> man, I love this guy, thinkpad, model M, awesome WM, zsh...what? emacs->vim and back to emacs? ugh
<rick_h> booo scuttle vs bookie
<greg-g> "The college police department once showed up at my dorm room to investigate a noise complaint at 4AM. It was me typing. No joke."
<rick_h> I love that, I have a new goal in life
<greg-g> rick_h: you know mako, right?
<rick_h> well met him once when he was in town to talk for something
<greg-g> weren't you at that BWW when he and someone else were in town at Dearborn or something
<rick_h> met up at a bar at some point
<greg-g> right right, that
<rick_h> yea
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> need to get the FF extension finished and get him on bookie vs scuttle :)
<greg-g> rick_h: YES!
<greg-g> he's a diehard Fx fan because of Zotero
<rick_h> ah, cool
<rick_h> it is like reading a mirror as far as tools/tech though
<greg-g> man, that is a long and thorough writeup
<rick_h> yea, very much so
 * greg-g is impressed
<greg-g> rick_h: shared the mako thing in other channel, buddy in there said:
<greg-g> 12:37 <    willkg> he doesn't mention pyblosxom, though. :(
<greg-g> (mako uses it, and willkg is the author of it)
<rick_h> :(
<rick_h> is that still going? I should check that out again
<snap-l> Boo, bose speakers.
<snap-l> (was re: mako's setup)
<rick_h> gotcha
<jrwren> zotero?
<greg-g> jrwren: the citation management etc Fx plugin
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, no one's perfect ;)
<greg-g> "no highs, no lows, must be bose"
<jrwren> mako's post is nice.
<jrwren> i'm pretty much running my dream setup. *sigh* OSX :(
<rick_h> we had OSX users at CHC last night, felt so dirty!
<jrwren> but my vim setup is great as is my firefox.
<jrwren> newsblur looks good. I should get off greader and into that.
<rick_h> no j/k :/
<rick_h> but is python it looks like
<rick_h> django even
<greg-g> yeah, ditto re newsblur
<snap-l> I've started reconsidering moving back to rss2email
<snap-l> and just filter it into a folder
<snap-l> mostly because I don't have much of the impetus to share or view other shares like I used to
<snap-l> They mishandled sharing in Google Reader
<brousch> snap-l: i have mine setup so if i star an item in greader an ifttt rule grabs it and sends it to FB and twitter. g+ sharing is obvious
<jcastro> hmm, what is this newsblur
<snap-l> brousch: Right, but the reason I moved to greader was because other people were sharing.
<snap-l> and now that's in G+
<snap-l> so I can again be an island.
<rick_h> greader is just a good reader, has a nice mobile app
<rick_h> newsblur demo seems slow, ui very busy, no keyboard shortcuts
<rick_h> share/smare, I just want to process my feeds quickly
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, and I have that infrastructure already.
<snap-l> It's called e-mail. :)
<greg-g> hmmmm... I like the idea of rss2email, but I do still get a kick out of sharing stuff I find interesting (especially when people comment on it, which does happen sometimes ;) )
<snap-l> And I can paste a link
<snap-l> Thanks, I think you just tipped me over the edge. ;)
<jcastro> omg
<jcastro> http://www.dollarshaveclub.com/
<jcastro> watch the video
<snap-l> Man, the dollars have clubs?
<greg-g> snap-l: :) glad I could help
<greg-g> snap-l++
<jcastro> the video is brilliant
<greg-g> ugh, he really annoys me
<snap-l> jcastro: Next you'll be telling me there's no expert sex change
<jcastro> pity it's cartridge blades, I switched to a safety razor last month
<snap-l> Just get a different beard
<jcastro> I am now as frugal and hippie as any average greg-g
<snap-l> like the almost peach-fuzz that comes out of my face.
<greg-g> jcastro: yay!
<jrwren> newsblur slow, busy ui, no kb shortcuts.... nothing like all the rest of mako configu.
<greg-g> so, really, no kb shortcuts?
<rick_h> yea, but OSS rss isn't a big thing out there
<rick_h> greg-g: well I tried loading a feed and j/k'ing with no success
<rick_h> haven't checked the docs/source
<greg-g> n for next
<greg-g> not sure what previous is
<jrwren> lol @ dollar shave club
<jcastro> yea greader's vim shortcuts are like, awesome
<greg-g> oh, and j/k does work
<greg-g> there's a whole keyboard shortcuts thingy in the settings
<jcastro> my problem with greader (and now G+) is they have more space for meta crap instead of content
<jrwren> i've been using safety razor for years. cartridge=scam
<jcastro> jrwren: yeah I went all out last month, got all new gear.
<jrwren> badger brush?
<jcastro> yeah
<jrwren> nice.
<jcastro> I have a ton of soaps and all sorts of different shaving creams, sticks, and stuff
<jcastro> I have been doing a bunch of experimenting
<greg-g> rick_h: http://grossmeier.net/files/tmp/NewsBlur_kb.png
<jcastro> My brother is in chile and every month he comes to visit to finish school, and each month I give him cartridge razors because they are so expensive overseas
<jcastro> and it's like, $30 for 6
<jcastro> so instead I bought him a nice chrome plated set of stuff he can keep forever, and the razors are like $30 for a year's worth
<rick_h> greg-g: ok, I take it back I guess.
<rick_h> snap-l: heh, so I just got an email about mug on tues
<jcastro> jrwren: https://picasaweb.google.com/116015965439782966698/RandomCrap#5730567131307344674
<brousch> jrwren, the shaving hipster
<jcastro> (my stuff is the previous pic
<greg-g> jcastro: holy cow, you should move to SF!
<jcastro> hah yeah
<jcastro> I only recently found out it's also a hipster trend
<greg-g> too many things are :)
<greg-g> they taint them all
<greg-g> because you can't do them without being called out on it, (see above) :)
<brousch> youarecorrectsir
<brousch> when the hipsters start doing something, i stop. so now i have a beard
<brousch> this makes me the ultimate hipster
<jcastro> hipsters can have beards
<brousch> i shave with knives i flintknapped myself
<greg-g> brousch: you're such a paleo-hipster
<jcastro> hah
<greg-g> I assume all anthro geeks know this, but I assume you heard the story about an archaeologist who flintknapped the scalpes he had his surgeon use for some surgery and how he had less scaring because they're way sharper than metal blades?
<greg-g> scalpes? haha, scalples, scalpels?
 * greg-g can't spell some days
<jrwren> its not hipster.
<jrwren> its totally CHEAP
<brousch> it's hip to be cheap due to the recession
<jrwren> jcastro: that omega soap is pretty nice, I've used it.
<jrwren> i have that same razor and stand.
<jrwren> err... no different stand and different brush.
<jrwren> but same razor
<rick_h> 158635
<jcastro> I am kind of overdoing it
<rick_h> dammit
<jcastro> any money I would have saved is gone by trying out all these handmade soaps and other greg stuff
<rick_h> lol
<jcastro> like, I am looking at handmade shaving scuttles now, etc.
<rick_h> geeze, quite the collection there
<rick_h> scuttle?
<jcastro> it's a double mug
<rick_h> hmm, I've always thoght of taking razor to head vs the short trim I do now, wonder if this stuff would work ok for it
<jcastro> you can pour hot water inbetween sections
<greg-g> jcastro: yes, but, it isn't all about the saved money, is it? Its also about supporting your local hand crafted artisan green organic grass feed pastured unbleached unscented recycled soy dyed carbon offset products, right?
<jcastro> so your lather in the top bow stays warm
<jcastro> greg-g: man, it's like you're living Portlandia
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> took me a few to get all of those :)
<jcastro> I think the biggest change is the move from alcohol shaving cream to mostly glycerine stuff
<jcastro> that's what made the difference for me
<jcastro> my face is like healthier and stuff, no more bumps, etc.
<jcastro> greg-g: here you go:
<jcastro> "I feel better connected with the natural things around me"
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> jcastro: you need to get out of FL before they turn you into a beach bum down there
<greg-g> jcastro: see, you're getting it already!
<jcastro> too late!
<greg-g> jcastro may out hippy me someday, it sounds like
<jcastro> In exactly 3:45 hours/mins I am going to the pool.
 * rick_h can't fathom this
<jrwren> <3 Portlandia.
<jrwren> the spirit of the 90s is still alive...
<jrwren> in portland
<jcastro> rick_h: don't laugh, I am bringing all this kit to UDS, I know you will dig it.
<jcastro> this has Rick nerd-passion written all over it
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, I've already wishlisted a few things
<rick_h> shaving and I don't agree
<jcastro> nor me
<rick_h> and I've tried all kinds of electric/etc
<rick_h> so if your praising it's tempting
<jrwren> oh no.
<rick_h> but sounds complicated like I'll have to read stuff
<jrwren> electric is terrible.
<jcastro> I still only shave every other day
<jrwren> this is what got me going: http://artofmanliness.com/2008/01/04/how-to-shave-like-your-grandpa/
<jcastro> but when your face stops being butchered it actually is like, a pampering experience
<rick_h> I only do twice a week, face can't take it more
<rick_h> bookmarked...
<jrwren> that is all i ever read
<jcastro> http://www.reddit.com/r/wicked_edge
<jcastro> mine was we were in the mall
<jcastro> and jill didn't know what to get me for my birthday
<jcastro> and we went to art of shaving
<jcastro> then she spent all this money on me
<greg-g> did jcastro just say "pampering"?
<jcastro> and then I got home and researched and realized I could have done it for the fraction of the price
<jcastro> greg-g: yes
<jcastro> pampering
<jcastro> like ... the feeling you get when getting a massage, etc.
<greg-g> :)
<jcastro> rick_h: plus the best part is, no matter how long you take, you'll still be done waaaay earlier than she will anyway
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> TMI
<jcastro> seriously if I was in MI, I would submit an ignite talk on this stuff
<jcastro> rick_h: I already know you will end up like me
<rick_h> lol
<jcastro> we're going to end up  looking for WW2-era gillettes, restoring them on the weekend
<rick_h> man, I'm that predictable am I/
<rick_h> ?
<jcastro> yep
<jcastro> I know craig would be too, but he's not cursed with beards like we are
<brousch> a beard is not a curse
<brousch> maybe a scraggly beard is
<snap-l> I have converted to rss2email
<snap-l> brousch: I have a scraggly ceard
<snap-l> beard, even
<snap-l> I look like a teenager trying to grow a chin all the tim
<snap-l> Finding it interesting how many feeds I have have gone awol
<snap-l> but google reader never told me
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, ditto
<greg-g> man, why am I balking at newsblur now? I was ready to do the $12 a year for unlimited feeds, but seeing that the only android client costs $1 made we pause?
<rick_h> greg-g: crazy how that goes isn't it?
<greg-g> people are weird
<rick_h> I do that sometimes, "ok, $100 in...wtf...another $10 for shipping, screw that"
<greg-g> exactly
<jrwren> yay amazon EBS!  our volume experienced a failure due to multiple failures of the underlying hardware components and we were unable to recover it.
<greg-g> eek
<rick_h> jrwren: doh :/
<rick_h> ebs snapshot recently?
<brousch> yikes
<jrwren> no idea. its our teams.
<brousch> isn't that impossible?
<rick_h> brousch: no, nothing is impossible
<brousch> it's the cloud!
<jrwren> that is waht i find so amuzing
<rick_h> everything can eventually fail. redundant is only so if part of it stays up
<greg-g> brousch: you sound like a manager I know. "cloud" == "unicorns and pixie dust"
<rick_h> basically
<brousch> pixie dusted unicorns are impossible to kill
<greg-g> brousch: "why don't we just use the cloud to speed up ...." "hey US Gov't, it's called 'the cloud', you should try it sometime" (in response to a DOL webapp not always working)
<jrwren> rofl
<brousch> jrwren: this just in "DreamHost2:07 PMÂ Â -Â Â InvolverÂ Â -Â Â PublicAll support tickets that are related to the Irvine Data Center outage are being filtered and will be responded to in a block message due to the amount coming in. Thank you for your patience."
<brousch> it looks like you're not the only one with big issues today
<jrwren> lol.
<krondor> ugh reading the scrollback makes me want to invest more time in my setup...
<rick_h> krondor: you shaving or computing setup?
<rick_h> :P
<jrwren> razor setup?
<krondor> argh both I think
<krondor> though I hate shaving, but you guys did a good job on 'the pitch'.
<brousch> yes, they left out the mess and time investments
<brousch> and the bloodletting as you learn
<greg-g> mmmm, blood letting
<jrwren> i now know too much about greg-g's sex life.
<krondor> hmm penguicon talk times are finalized it seems, and I'm on for Friday only! Woot.  Means low stress Sat/Sun. http://penguicon2012.sched.org/
<rick_h> krondor: same here yay
<snap-l> Did someone let the ossmichigan.org domain expire?
<greg-g> ruh roh
<rick_h> snap-l: probably, we were supposed to be setting up the planet on mug
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> Just noticed the feed was dead.
<greg-g> wonder if the opml/whatever is saved somewhere?
<rick_h> yea, no idae
<rick_h> idea that is
<greg-g> lol, snap-l will like this:
<greg-g> co worker just said they got a homeopathic remedy for their hay fever, they only used a half dose and they feel worse
<greg-g> shouldn't it be STRONGER?!?!
<greg-g> sorry, off-topic
<greg-g> back on topic: So annoying that Google Docs can do a better job at rendering .docs better than LO.
<rick_h> jcastro: what's the soap I'm supposed to start out with?
<rick_h> getting razor/brush to try out
<greg-g> lol
<rick_h> oh come on, if it's better shaving I've got to at least try it, not sure I need the blade 'variety pack'
<greg-g> I know, it is just awesome seeing you get an idea in your head and you run with it faster than most. I put it on a todo list, mull over it for a while, forget about it, then remember in a month "oh yeah, I should do that" and finally do :)
<rick_h> well I'm nothing if short fused on playing with new things
<jcastro> rick_h: hang on
<jcastro> I made a beginner kit list on amazon
<greg-g> wow, this is getting intense
<jcastro> http://www.amazon.com/registry/wishlist/29PLHU5C60F75/ref=cm_wl_rlist_go_o
<jcastro> actually that merkur part is a bit hardcore
<rick_h> yea, no kidding. Wasn't going there
<jcastro> but I know Rick, he's an engineer, and he can appreciate a razor made from one BLOCK OF PURE STEEL
<rick_h> hell yea, I used to make stuff out of blocks of pure steel
<greg-g> hah, getting started? $175 plz
<jcastro> those merkur razors, nice
<jcastro> they're like $40 though
<jcastro> but it's like, the only one you ever buy
<rick_h> yea, got the merkur heavy duty in the cart and a badger brush
<jcastro> pity we did not learn this in our 20's
<jcastro> ok so you need soap?
<rick_h> yea, that's the hang up
<rick_h> the article has like 6 different things, it's all over the map
<jcastro> http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B00008X5CH?tag=adapas02-20
<jcastro> it's also at your local CVS for like $1.50
<jcastro> but I am not a pro, that's the soap I got when I started and it's still around
<jcastro> you need that and then steal one of your soup bowls
<jcastro> rick_h: if you want to not go with soap
<jcastro> this is what I got my brother: http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B000JY0X4U?tag=adapas02-20
<jcastro> that's like a year's worth
<rick_h> ok, thanks, that helps
<jcastro> the nice thing about that is you just plunk your brush in there and then lather your face
<jcastro> the soap you need a bowl, etc.
<jcastro> which is fun
<jcastro> but takes longer
<jcastro> at some point you'll mix and match soap and cream into your own concoctions
<jcastro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjhIy9rgWQU
<jcastro> ^^ there are three of these
<jcastro> watch those too
<jcastro> that outta be enough
<jcastro> ignore the whole "zen" greg hippie crap
<rick_h> lol
<jcastro> also, that guy kind of reminds me of snap-l
<rick_h> ok, done
<rick_h> we'll see monday
<jcastro> oh hey
<jcastro> badger brush right?
<rick_h> yea
 * jcastro nods
<jcastro> rick_h: in the video I linked, you can ignore the product recommendations
<jcastro> I just get what's on amazon
<rick_h> cool
<jcastro> and the razors that come with your razor will last you a few weeks anyway
<rick_h> yea, that's what I figure.
<jcastro> this guy has good videos
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-13
<jrwren> re: shaving soap. pretty much anything will work too. Ivory or Dove are both gental and super cheap.
<jrwren> don't skimp on brush.
<jrwren> I had a boar brush for a while, it was terrible.
<jrwren> Badger is where it is at.
<snap-l> jcastro: How does this remind you of me?
<jcastro> snap-l: no idea
<jcastro> like he'd be your brother or something
<snap-l> Ah, if I had a dopey brother that obsessed over shaving.
<jrwren> jcastro: for what is the witch hazel?
<rick_h> jcastro: I kind of a agree, though I don't think I saw it until you said something
<jcastro> jrwren: I think people use it for like an aftershave
<jcastro> and astrigen
<jrwren> yeah, i use it as an astringent, hopefully to minimize my pores, so I can be more perty :p
<jrwren> but I dunno what it does for my shaving.
<jrwren> i shall try it as aftershave.
<jrwren> TOMORROW!
<jcastro> I don't use it
<jcastro> I am trying to avoid turning into a crazy person
<jcastro> like audiophiles with cable elevators
<snap-l> jcastro: Too late
<jrwren> well, a pint of whichhazel is like $0.79 at meijer :)
<snap-l> I expect you to be putting ferrite cores in your bathroom
<jcastro> snap-l: oxygen free
<snap-l> jrwren: http://www.michiguide.com/archives2012/2012/04/newsmakers-and-links-april-12.html
<jrwren> wtf?
<jrwren> well that is great. I hope they get some $$$ and increase their signal
<jrwren> because its a weak signal even on campus
<rick_h> morning party people
<snap-l> Goooood morning
<snap-l> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/04/12/2332239/indian-man-charged-with-blasphemy-for-exposing-miracle
<jrwren> anyone else get spammed by mug announce this morning ?
<rick_h> yea, last night got two of them for last tues's meetings
<snap-l> Yes, it's my fault
<rick_h> get him!
<snap-l> I've been playing with r2e, and accidentally did a reset
<rick_h> grrr, bzr die!
<snap-l> my poor mail server is getting hammered as well. :)
<snap-l> 337 feeds, some of which go back to 2007
<rick_h> doesn't it limit it at all?
<snap-l> not well
<rick_h> I mean I load a feed into greader it only grabs the last 10
<rick_h> ugh, that's off. My poor notmuch db would get hammered and seaching my email would be forever corrupt
<snap-l> There is a --no-send flag
<snap-l> but, when it runs in cron, there's not nuck you can do about it without killing it
<rick_h> finally got the old backups to the nas. Found out I copied an rsync command from their docs that did symlink copying which made for a much larger copy that I intended
<snap-l> Oh, lovely
<rick_h> yea, so ended up blowing away some stuff and restarting some backups
<rick_h> so only took a week to get the backups off, now to get the curent systems copying there now
<brousch> i am experiencing the future, and it sucks
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> what broke now brousch ?
<brousch> We wanted to get a backup set of keys for the new used car
<brousch> $230
<brousch> the key has some encryption chip in it that pairs with a chip in the ignition
<rick_h> ah yea
<brousch> they have to program it, and only dealerships can do it
<rick_h> car keys these days...can't keep people out of hte cars, but they can try to keep them from starting it
<brousch> $230 for a key. these guys have their dicks in the peanut butter
<brousch> you know what it costed to have a guy come out and break into the car when my wife locked herself out? $45
<brousch> so she can lock herself out 5x for the price of a key
<snap-l> brousch: Even better are the rfid keys
<snap-l> expect those in the near future
<brousch> rfid is cheap. that's the whole point
<snap-l> so some thief will still be able to hotwire your car, but he'll be able to do it from 50 feet away
<brousch> so why does it cost $230 to put it in a key?
<snap-l> and you'll have to pay $500 for their newfangled keyfob
<rick_h> well if anyone at the dealership touched it you nkow you add $100 to it
<snap-l> brousch: the same reason it costs $600 for an in-dash radio that sounds worse than a college boombox
<rick_h> and the programmer probably costs the dealership $100,000,000
<brousch> that's maybe the most annoying part. only the dealership has the equipment to make a new key
<rick_h> yea, else break-ins would be easy!
<brousch> locked in tighter than an iphone
<snap-l> brousch: Come to Detroit. I'm sure some warehouse somewhere has the same exact equipment
<brousch> i mean come on, i live in grand rapids. my car is never going to be stolen
<brousch> http://www.autotransponder.com/2009_subaru_forester_keys_and_keyless_entry_remotes
<snap-l> brousch: It'll be moved if you happen to park on a nickel, though.
<snap-l> Probably towed
<brousch> so the key itself is $10 and the fob is $70. $70 for a nickle worth of plastick and a dollar in electronics
<snap-l> I <3 MUG
<rick_h> ?
<snap-l> Sent out a message about the r2e screw up
<snap-l> Hi Craig.
<snap-l> Do you have any experience with building home media pc that utilizes things like XMBC ?
<rick_h> lmao
<snap-l> *headdesk*
<rick_h> doh, krondor is doing his charm school at the same time as the web bof? booo
<rick_h> crap, can we edit the PC schedule stuff at all? Where's waldo...
 * brousch snickers
<brousch> sorry, couldn't help it
<rick_h> it was intentional :)
<jrwren> brousch: i have solved this exact key problem.
<jrwren> i just don't lock my car doors.
<brousch> nice
<brousch> i think i can get a remote door fob for cheap and program it myself
<brousch> that will be good enough for now
<brousch> still $70
<jrwren> dist-upgrade is listing some NEW packages to be installed. how can I pin them as not install?
<brousch> i found a programmable aftermarket fob for $40. at least i can open the doors even if i won't be able to start the car
<jrwren> a my own q: use upgrade instead of dist-upgrade
<brousch> rick_h: i just saw your team pic from budapest. you've lost a lot of weight since i last saw you. good job!
<rick_h> thanks
<jrwren> http://gizmodo.com/5901263/court-rules-it-is-impossible-to-steal-computer-code  I preduct that SCOTUS will overturn this case.
<snap-l> greg-g: http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1680-how-boiron-scammed-me-and-paid-for-it.html
<snap-l> jrwren: I expect the scotus to overturn something specific to this case, but nothing more
<snap-l> the SCOTUS doesn't give the broad sweeps that I wish it would.
<rick_h> send help to the first person that ever sends me a MP with a doctest in it.
<rick_h> the fury that will be unleashed...
<jrwren> EVERY scotus ruling IS broad sweeping.
<jrwren> MP ?
 * jrwren sends rick_h an MP
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unleash_the_Fury
<rick_h> jrwren: merge proposal sorry
<rick_h> pull request, pick your term
<jrwren> snap-l: I'm most amused that its posed on teh James Randi page.
<jrwren> patch ?
<rick_h> jrwren: sure, that'll count
<snap-l> jrwren: Which, the homeopathy page?
<snap-l> There's a whole foundation with James Randi's name on it
<snap-l> The James Randi Educational Foundation (jref)
<snap-l> I got JoDee a membership to it
<jrwren> snap-l: yes, the homoepath page.
<jrwren> yeah, Janice hosted James Randi for Ann ARbor Science and Sceptics.
<jrwren> only reason I know of the guy
<snap-l> He's the closest the skeptical community has to a religious figure.
<ColonelPanic001> I don't believe that
<jrwren> lol
<greg-g> snap-l: re those accidental MUG announce mails: they're also in HTML :/
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> you're welcome.
 * snap-l needs to split out a separate r2e instance for that.
<rick_h> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android seems like a pretty sweet idea
<rick_h> more clocks than KDE!
<brousch> unpossible!
<greg-g> btw, we had an honest to goodness thunderstorm in SF last night. That never happens. I mean, people who have lived here for over a decade said that there was more lightnight and thunder last night than the whole time they've been here
<greg-g> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2129246/Once-lifetime-picture-lightning-striking-San-Franciscos-Bay-Bridge.html
<rick_h> yea, saw that pic, awesome
<greg-g> and just so you aren't momemtarily confused like I was, that is the Bay Bridge, not the Golden Gate :)
<greg-g> I know it is in the title/url/etc, but they also said "iconic" which most people would assume refers to the GG
<snap-l> I thought that referred to the Greg Grossmeier
<greg-g> haha, nice, I didn't even realize that when I typed it
<greg-g> also, Rowan loved it. He was so intrigued by it all
<greg-g> aha! i figured out the muttrc problem!
<greg-g> now, just need to figure out how to fix it
<greg-g> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/618/
<greg-g> the problem and explanation ^^^ for those who care to look
 * jrwren contemplates moving to mutt
<rick_h> greg-g: is there a space in between sent and mail?
<rick_h> if so you might have to escape it?
<greg-g> I know it is an escaping issue, but man, I'm bad at remembering all the little.....
<greg-g> hmmm
<greg-g> yes, there is (stupid gmail's "imap" server implementation)
<rick_h> folder-hook +mitechie.* set query_command='"goobook query \'%s\'"'
<rick_h> so I've had to do that where I have spaces/etc in there
<rick_h> folder-hook +mitechie.* set sendmail='"/usr/bin/msmtp -a mitechie"'
<rick_h> same thing there
<greg-g> w00t!
<greg-g> that was it (adding the 's)
<greg-g> thanks rick_h
<rick_h> awesome
<rick_h> np
<greg-g> I'm so bad at remember the escaping rules
<rick_h> yea, it's strange in there, I can't explain it, but know it works for my rules
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> jrwren: do it, you'll have tons of config file support from rick_h  and I
<jrwren> ok, i will.
<jrwren> got a getting started guide?
<jrwren> or should I just look for rich_h dotfiles on github?
<rick_h> I don't keep my email stuff on github since it's pretty personal
<rick_h> https://bmark.us/recent/mutt has some good mutt links/info
<jrwren> multiaccount mutt looks like shit.
<jrwren> I think I'll pass for now.
<greg-g> jrwren: wha? nah, I love it
<greg-g> I use 3 imap accounts plus 5 From: addresses with no problem
<jrwren> all the multiacct things I saw looked ugly config
<greg-g> config may be 'ugly' but use isn't.
<greg-g> really, my sig/default FROM is auto-set based on which folder the email I am reply to is in (or which one I'm just looking at right now).
<greg-g> but I can change the from: by just doing one of v1, v2, v3, v4, v5
<greg-g> n0p: :) http://flixel.com/flixel/9fb92fe986fe799834ee
<n0p> :-D
<jcastro> rick_h: your gear get in yet?
<jcastro> greg-g: that is one awesome pic
<rick_h> jcastro: what gear?
<rick_h> jrwren: I don't use the sidebar. I just use . and such to know which dirs have new email and jump to them
<rick_h> jrwren: but I did end up aggregating my accounts into one single imap account I manage now
<snap-l> greg-g: Those "Flixel" images (cinemagraphs) are CREEPY
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-14
<brousch> semantic.gs is nice
<brousch> got a responsive fluid layout going with no grid crap in the html
<rick_h> I'm briliant, don't rm my nosetests.xml file and somehow the nosetests build step got erased
<rick_h> so for weeks been saying all tests are fine by using the old nosetests.xml files
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, boneheaded moves appear to be the norm
<rick_h> been that kind of day...
<rick_h> drinking lots of wine to compensate
<rick_h> wheeee
<snap-l> It makes you smarter.
<rick_h> definitely
<rick_h> and type better
<rick_h> how's everyone else's friday night going?
<snap-l> Putting together OMC 45
<snap-l> With a glass of port
<rick_h> nice
<snap-l> http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2012/04/13/white-trash-repairs-os-wars/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ThereIFixedIt+%28There%2C+I+Fixed+It.%29
<snap-l> Streamlined a lot of putting together OMC
<snap-l> not the actual show, but building the episode from a .wav file
<rick_h> snap-l: that's good, more time for the fun part, less for the busy work
<rick_h> 281689
<rick_h> _stink__: so the doors are no match for michael any more. He's opening them all today :/
<rick_h> and now that he's not in his crib, I fear waking up to him walking in my room grabbing my face and telling me to do something
<rick_h> 128831
<_stink__> rick_h: haha!
<_stink__> yikes!
<_stink__> rick_h: how has the transition to big bed gone?
<rick_h> _stink_: good, he's lost some stuff animals off the edge, but he's actually staying pretty much put
<rick_h> brousch: http://www.craigkerstiens.com/2012/04/13/apps_to_services/ here you go, part of why I don't like django
<rick_h> I'm a fan of the services model, see bookie_readable
<JonEdney> I'm still prettry new to Ubuntu and can't really contribute much currently, but would eventually like to.  The Michigan events, is there a fee for non-members to attend?
<rick_h> definitely
<rick_h> JonEdney: there's the release part coming up at Penguicon, I guess is that still going to be free snap-l ?
<rick_h> snap-l: since it's in a room this year?
<rick_h> JonEdney: but many of us meet up at mug.org meetings, and coffeehousecoders meetings which are free
<JonEdney> Yeah I see a few of those, which is very interesting.  I may be making some strong attempts to attend these, I was introduced to Ubuntu about 2 months ago and just love everything the community is about.
<rick_h> JonEdney: awesome, are you in the SE mi area?
<JonEdney> Yeah, I'm in Westland
<rick_h> JonEdney: very cool, well welcome to the ubuntu side of things
<rick_h> man, <3 offlineimap but when it locks up and I don't notice...fun catchup time
<greg-g> JonEdney: welcome to the channel. Feel free to hang around and meet us all.
<greg-g> JonEdney: most live in SE Mich, some out west, I'm actually in San Francisco (just moved from Ann Arbor this summer)
<JonEdney> Very awesome, I work for a web hosting company in Ann Arbor.
<greg-g> JonEdney: ArborNet?
<jcastro> rick_h: gear come in yet?
<greg-g> jcastro: btw, the shopping cart logo thing for the Charms wiki page is adorable :) (yes, I haven't looked into that documentation much yet)
<greg-g> it made me smile, I like that
<rick_h> jcastro: shaving gear? no, monday
<JonEdney> greg-g: A2 Hosting actually, sorry was on the phone.
<rick_h> ah cool, I think A2 hosting is sponsoring MUG
<rick_h> mmm, hack or nap...hack or nap. The question that arises every time the boy goes down for nap time
<greg-g> hack+coffee
<greg-g> alright, time for me to join the facial hair party and look for a new beard trimmer
<rick_h> i've not had good luck with that
<rick_h> rocking the argparse subcommands
<rick_h> bookie_api invites list
<rick_h> bookie invites set -u admin -i 999
<rick_h> bwuhahaha
<jrwren> gnome should just admit that copy/paste in terminal is a mistake and change back to copy on selection and paste w/middle or right click
<rick_h> people that like that behavior should move on from gnome-terminal :)
<jrwren> rxvt is so 1996
<jrwren> but i'll take recommendations
<jrwren> its not like i'm in desktop linux often. but its infuriating to use gnome teriminal
<rick_h> rxvt-unicode is my choice http://www.techdrivein.com/2011/06/9-good-terminal-emulators-for-linux.html
<rick_h> I think it includes 256colors ootb now in 12.04
<jrwren> wtf, i just 7z a something on what machine and now I can't 7z x it on another???
<jrwren> oh sure, try again and it works.
<jrwren> hrmf.
<derekv> My shoulder actually hurts from too much mouse dependance and bad posture.  =[
<rick_h> derekv: ouch, ergo time
<derekv> I ame very very overdo for a long vacation, involving outdoors, sunshine, excersize, no computers
<derekv> A reset
<derekv> No computer because if I have one with me I'll just use it the whole time.
<rick_h> yea, I do that a couple times a year
<derekv> Is this your blog
<derekv> lococast?
<rick_h> derekv: it's the podcast snap-l and I do (every once in a long while)
<rick_h> blog.mitechie.com is my blog I blog to once in a long while
<rick_h> but the vim screencasts I did. I'm a vim fanboi and attemt to convert people.
<rick_h> I claim brousch as a success story, I think
<derekv> I'm not sure if I'm an emacs "fanboy", I use it, its just randomly what I decided to use way back ... i use vim/vi for banging on config files in terminal and know just the basic commands
<jrwren> <3 vim
<rick_h> I moved to vim for all my editing needs a couple of years back
<rick_h> been a big win
<rick_h> https://github.com/mitechie/pyvim
<jrwren> i get red squiggles in my vim when there are errors :)
<derekv> If someone asks me if they should learn one or the other, I shrug and say "I like emacs, seems like more people I meet like vim."
<derekv> I think if your picking between those two your on the right track
<rick_h> yea, I say that vi at least is on every system so you'll need to know it at some point
<rick_h> but yea, I respect emacs users since at least they're not using some plugin to eclipse in their day job
<rick_h> I even tried to do emacs once but failed horribly
<derekv> Yep I usually explain that advantage,
<rick_h> got the books/etc
<derekv> My brother decided to start learning to program and on my advice he picked python (even thouh I don't use it much)
<derekv> and _really_ likes it
<rick_h> good call
<derekv> He asked me about books so I went to #python, looked at the /topic, and gave hime the zed shaw book
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> i haven't found very many great python books.
<jrwren> i have found a few terrible ones :(
<derekv> which seemed to work pretty well until it got too tough for him then he started flipping between different books
<rick_h> yea, I went through a ton of books
<rick_h> but to be honest, when I learned/moved over to python it was mainly on hacking/moving forward
<rick_h> weren't really books that I could point to and "that one taught me the python I know today"
<derekv> At first he was like "which should learn 2x or 3x?" so I looked at that issue and was like, oh great ... he was reading all these forum posts etc
<rick_h> heh, that's pretty common. Fortunately you can learn either these days and move along ok
<rick_h> but 2 is easier since more stuff will work there
<derekv> He didn't have the cultural understanding to interpret all that stuff
<rick_h> yea, it's the issue with being new
<derekv> Plus it seems like when your starting, you have this feeling that your going to be locked into one platform and you have to pick the right one now
<rick_h> http://docs.python-guide.org/en/latest/index.html
<derekv> And a lot of bad comments out there that seem to support this.
<derekv> Had to keep telling him, you can switch later it won't hurt even if you pick the wrong one your not getting married.
<derekv> Anyways I guess whether it was my influence or what, but he later came back and was like, "I've been learning shell and I think that everyone should learn the shell before they learn to program"  =]
<derekv> I've met CS grads who I had to explain to them what a shell was.
<derekv> He also decided to learn vim.
<derekv> The only thing I insisted on was that he learn git =]
<derekv> rick_h, didn't you say something about using make files to rollout your dev enviroment?
<derekv> was that something you planned for lococast?
<rick_h> derekv: I might talk about it at MUG
<rick_h> I'll talk about it some on lococast as well probably
<derekv> I really like the concept.
<rick_h> yea, took me a bit to 'get' it and even still it's a big thing but I'm loving the use
<derekv> Do you get that to work on windows or are you so lucky to not have to ever think about that?
<rick_h> not really any more
<rick_h> bah, phantomjs is hating on me...so close
<derekv> "Unable to install. Meteor supports RedHat and Debian." boooooo
<derekv> also, I'm officially fed up  with xchat
<derekv> ahhhh here we go, erc =]
<derekv> aghk color scheme fail! =[
<derekv> Red on blue.
<Blazeix> sounds beautiful
<derekv> Any syntax highlighting system / color theme engine needs to do sanity checks
<derekv> I'm pretty sure there are formulas available.
<rick_h> dammit, can't get this to work. xvfb, phantomjs, jenkins...ugh...suck a not fun combo
<derekv> I'm having a hell of a time with xvfb, webdriver, tomcat, elastic bamboo
<derekv> different tests fail every build.
<Blazeix> does phantomjs require xvfb?
<Blazeix> i thought it was standalone
<rick_h> it needs it to run headless I think
<Blazeix> oh, apparently the newest version is standalone, but older versions aren't
<rick_h> trying to run it under jenkins user
<Blazeix> "Starting from PhantomJS version 1.5, the Linux version is pure headless and does not need X11/Xlib anymore and thus there is no need to use Xvfb."
<rick_h> orly...ok yea, using one version back, guess an upgrade is work it
<rick_h> yea, 1.4 here
<rick_h> cool, just wasn't sure on the ppas and didn't want to manually build
<rick_h> hah, started compile and now I see: "With 4 parallel compile jobs on a modern machine, the entire process takes roughly 30 minutes."
<snap-l> Sorry, have been AWOL most of the day
<snap-l> dentist teeth cleaning, Squeeebox presentation, and have some friends over.
<rick_h> party time
<snap-l> Yo yo yo
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt-QDXUeQnY
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUQtRVqRKuY&feature=related
<rick_h> Blazeix: thakns for the heads up on the phantomjs 1.5 updates. Works ok now
<Blazeix> awesome
<rick_h> yea, no nice xunit output, but at least can run the JS tests now in jenkins and get pass/fail
<snap-l> brousch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miZLob1Hi4I <- Local guys
<snap-l> Love the first comment:
<snap-l> "I'mï»¿ in a band."
<snap-l> "What do you play?"
<snap-l> "The beard."
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-15
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N15i1bKnTA
<jrwren> snap-l: wtf is that i love my bike?
<jrwren> snap-l: whoa! this battlecross is pretty swete
<jrwren> snap-l: lol, shot at magic stick
<jrwren> snap-l: what kind of metal do you call those last two bands?
<rick_h> morning
<brousch> ug
<brousch> stiff today
<brousch> played golf at arcadia bluffs yesterday
<rick_h> ah, good stuff
<rick_h> was a good day to get out and about
<snap-l> jrwren: Detroit-area. :)
<brousch> also, responsive design is fun
<rick_h> brousch: heh, tinkering with it for something?
<rick_h> man, argparse is sweet
<rick_h> the nested parsers is just awesome once you figure it out
<rick_h> man, another new person asking about CHC on the michipug list
<brousch> next webdev doesn't have enough speakers, so i figured i'd mess with it
<rick_h> could we really outgrow our space in two weeks of time?
<brousch> semantic.gs is the bizomb
<rick_h> brousch: ah, very cool
<rick_h> lol
<brousch> fluid, responsive grid with no span crap in your html
<brousch> uses scss or less
<rick_h> either one?
<brousch> right
<rick_h> that's cool
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqYdwJ-DTGo
<rick_h> you drug pusher!
<snap-l> Heh. :)
<rick_h> doh, don't forget to make your default make rule not be clean_all
<snap-l> rick_h: Ouch
<snap-l> Yeah, default to all
<rick_h> redownloading venv/packages since I just wiped the venv on accidnet
<jrwren> i shall just call it shitty vocal metal then.
<snap-l> jrwren: Could call it Deathcore
<jrwren> ah, ok.
<snap-l> I dunno.. people get realy tied up with the labeling of things.
<jrwren> i listen to gothic and symphonic metal. MUCH different ;)
<snap-l> Personally, I categorize it as "stuff I like" and "stuff I don't care for"
<jrwren> me too, but that is orthoginal.
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> That's me, Mr. Orthagonal.
<snap-l> Orthagonal Man Orthagonal man
<jrwren> e.g. cradle of filfth I actually like and they are more death metal.
<snap-l> Doing things as orthagonally as he can
<jrwren> nice.
<snap-l> What's it like? It's not important
<snap-l> Orthagonal man
<jrwren> ya know... I really can't stand modern TMBG
<snap-l> jrwren: It's not new anymore
<jrwren> what's not new?
<snap-l> It's very hard to keep the novelty.
<jrwren> oh. right.
<jrwren> but even Lincoln is a great album IMO
<snap-l> ++
<jrwren> but far less novel than the one after it.
<snap-l> Flood?
<jrwren> but I herd john henry and it sounded so vanila and stopped listening to 'em.
<jrwren> lol, yeah, flood, probably their most popular
<snap-l> Apollo 18 was good
<jrwren> ya know, i never really listened to that one. I should.
<snap-l> And then Factory Showroom was... middling
<jrwren> its just... things like "here ocme hte abcs" and "here come the 123s" should be great for me and my 5yr old... but I can't stand them.
<snap-l> "I liked them before my kids did"
<snap-l> hipster dad.
<jrwren> um... no.
<snap-l> ;)
<jrwren> my kid doesn't like those 2 albums either :)
<jrwren> she does like Why Does The Sun Shine
<jrwren> as do I
<snap-l> "Daddy, put on the ramones"
<snap-l> "I don' wanna be berries in pet cemmitaries"
<jrwren> lol
<snap-l> s/be/eat/
<rick_h> rst2html.py weekly_report.rst > /tmp/weekly_report.html
<rick_h> oops
<greg-g> rick_h: heh, I have the same thing in a script I run on taskwarrior output :)
<rick_h> greg-g: :) well trying it out for writing wordpress posts vs raw html
<rick_h> though the stupid newline crap drives me nuts. If I'm editing "raw html mode" don't create new breaks for me :/
<greg-g> oh, I see, weekly_report.rst wasn't auto-generated, that was the blogpost.
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h> greg-g: right
<greg-g> hah, bookie api being the cli version of bookie, I like :)
<rick_h> yea, well it'll provide both since the cli is nothing but calls to the python api
<greg-g> s/version/interface/
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h> so you can pip install that and get the cmd line tool and in your own scripts import bookie_api
<greg-g> ohhhh, neat
<greg-g> your "fontawesome" reminded me: what do you think of the new AWESOME project from Canonical? Taking away hits for the best window manager ;)
<rick_h> heh, well it lacks an 'e' :)
<rick_h> I think it's cheesy myself, but it's what was determined
<greg-g> oh, heh, I missed that, dang autocorrect
<greg-g> (my brain's autocorrect, that is)
<rick_h> yea, understand...like I said...a bit cheesy
<greg-g> :)
<derekv> oh shit is this a tiling window manager?
<derekv> it sure looks like it
<derekv> I open all my windows... get gets dark and start thundering
<derekv> windows on my house windows
<rick_h> huh?
<rick_h> derekv: is what a tiling WM?
<derekv> awesome
<derekv> installing it
<derekv> "awesome" window manager
<rick_h> yea, awesome is a tiling WM, some of us are tiling fans
<rick_h> Blazeix: widox_ _stink_
<rick_h> we're working on converting greg-g, but taking time
<derekv> I tried really hard using something called lars wm
<rick_h> widox_: is running xmonad and _stink_ still running the rat poison child?
<derekv> I couldn't make it work for me but really wanted to, it was like 90% worked great
<rick_h> 75515y9
<rick_h> bah
<rick_h> yea, there's a couple of trade offs
<derekv> then some applications just refused to label their windows and dialogs correctly and lars wouldn't know where to place them
<rick_h> but I find that the normal usage is so worht it
<rick_h> just beware, sans any config they tend to not do much and need docs to help figure out how to do things
<rick_h> since they're all keyboard driven, discoverability lacks
<derekv> I remember my biggest pet peave was firefox opening dialogs and not labeling the window or resource, larswm would stick it behind firefox so it became a popunder, and I wouldn't know why firefox wasn't responding
<derekv> but that was >10 years ago I think
<rick_h> yea, there are still some fuglyness with that stuff since you get giant dialogs that get tiled like a full app
<rick_h> and if it doesn't have a close button/etc you have ot use the WM commands (win-shift-c) to close it
<derekv> yes, derek's unpublished rules of UI : don't open another window to ask the user something.  never, ever use a blocking dialog.  all windows should be fully resizeable.
<derekv> and  someone still uses mutt I see
<rick_h> heck yea
<rick_h> I'm pretty much cli if I can
<derekv> mutt is the best
<rick_h> yea, notmuch brought me back to mutt
<rick_h> since now I have decent fulltext search
<derekv> my third email address migrated to gapps just recently, meaning all three of my main emails are now on gapps... meaning its past due to set up my own mail server
<rick_h> http://blog.mitechie.com/2011/11/20/an-updated-email-config-2-offlineimap-mutt-and-dovecot-ftw/
<derekv> Thanks
<rick_h> not complete, but yea I pull a few different email accouts into a single imap server from one of my ec2 instances
<rick_h> and then mutt and my phone just pull from my own dovecot server as a single combined mailbox
<derekv> I keep toying with the idea of doing some sort of universal inbox app.  When I've looked a ...
<derekv> holy crap lightning
<derekv> bbl
<rick_h> see ya
<snap-l> Lots of lightning
<rick_h> 533758
<snap-l> âWeâre not paying that much for black and white print outs. Give us the white ink for free.â
<greg-g> uh oh, a blog post on offlineimap and email setup...
 * greg-g reads
<greg-g> oh right, that one
<brousch> awesome. only 150 lines of scss to make this version that looks good on 1080p to 320px iphone http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/dritharat.com/index.html
<brousch> no divs that are used just to wrap other divs and no column/span crap in the html
<Blazeix> wow, i love the fonts
<brousch> heh, yeah, the artsy stuff is not my doing
<Blazeix> actually, did that compile down to 130 lines of css?
<brousch> just the making it a web page and responsive
<brousch> Blazeix: looks like it
<Blazeix> that's actually a testament to css, then :)
<Blazeix> or sass's compiler
<brousch> the compiler puts some }} on the same line and cut out some blank lines
<brousch> my scss looks like pep8 python ;)
<brousch> here ya go http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/dritharat.com/index.html
<brousch> blah
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/dritharat.com/css/responsive.scss
<brousch> ah, broken on IE
<brousch> now the real fun begins
<brousch> ie8 does not support media queries. can we just kick all IE users off the internet?
<brousch> hah, got ie working with a couple of helper projects
<rick_h> 362604
<rick_h> bah
<brousch> humbug
<snap-l> brousch: re: kicking all IE users off of the internet: sounds like a plan to me.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-08
<waldo323> is there a meeting tonight?
<jjesse> i'm here but a bit afk as i put my son to bed
<snap-l> There's a meeting tonight
<snap-l> sorry, I'm running a little late
<snap-l> Who all is here for the meeting?
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/514/detail/ <- agenda
<Ahuka> I'm not here. I'm just an illusion.
<waldo323> quite alright by me, i was lucky to get back with food for the meeting
<snap-l> OK, let's get started then
<snap-l> We have a few things to cover for the meeting
<snap-l> first off: Release party at Penguicon
<snap-l> We'll be once again having our release party at penguicon
<snap-l> That's on the Friday evening, from 7-8
<snap-l> pm
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/2167-ubuntu-1304-release-party/
<snap-l> I'll update the event with more information
<snap-l> But the short of it is it'll be at the hotel bar.
<snap-l> and you'll be able to buy drinks and have a good time
<snap-l> in whatever combination of the two you care to do. :)
<snap-l> Im not sure if the west side is planning a release party. brousch, do you have any plans set up?
<brousch> I do not
<jjesse> what is the date?
<jjesse> trying to see if i would be around
<snap-l> 4/26
<jjesse> cool i'll be around on the west side i think
<snap-l> If you folks want to plan something, feel free to add it to the events list on the site.
<snap-l> that goes for anyone else who wants to set p a release party
<snap-l> If you don't have access to the loco calendar, please feel free to find someone who does to add it
<brousch> ug, that week is too busy already
<snap-l> brousch: Delegate. :)
<brousch> mon: grwebdev; tue: friendlycode; wed: grmakers; thu: wmlug
<brousch> next mon: glsec conference
<snap-l> What is it with the west siders and their conferences? :)
<brousch> We have a lot of stuff!
<snap-l> Sheesh, you'd think you were a tech hub or something. ;)
<brousch> Working on it
<snap-l> Anywho, that's what's on the schedule at the moment
<waldo323> the 25th is the actual release day right?
<snap-l> again, if you want to organize a party, please feel free.
<snap-l> waldo323: Not sure. Frankly I've not been paying attention. :)
<snap-l> I'd be pleasently surprised if it releases on that date. :)
<Ahuka> I'll weait uintil after Penguicon anyway.
<snap-l> Anyone running 13.04 at the moment?
<snap-l> I've heard the video drivers are vastly improved.
<snap-l> as in it'll render in realtime. ;)
<waldo323> nice
<snap-l> Anything else on the release parties?
<snap-l> Definitely hope to see you all there. :)
<snap-l> I tried to get a conference pack, but I have a feeling we won't have one in time
<snap-l> But there will be plenty of 12.10 DVDs and 12.04 CDs
<snap-l> my plan is to leave Penguicon with less DVDs than when I came
<snap-l> so take some DVDs and distribute them.
<snap-l> 13.04 will not have DVDs, so that's a relief... er, good news.
<snap-l> Which brings me to the next topic.
<jjesse> brousch, what is glsec?  link to it?
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/team/514/agenda/1486/update/
<snap-l> There was esome talk at the latest UDS about dropping the distinction between Approvedn and Unapproved Locos
<snap-l> Which I fully support. I think we've gotten way too hung up on the distinction between which groups are approved, and which ones are unapproved.
<snap-l> But regardless of the decision of the Loco Council regarding dropping the approved / unapproved statuses, I think it's time for us to seriouosly think about our approval status
<snap-l> and instead switch to unapproved status come the renewal.
<snap-l> Reasons are as follows:
<snap-l> 1) With the dropping of DVD shipments, and less resources for Canonical to distribute amongst the teams, the distinctions between approved and unapproved become moot.
<snap-l> 2) Our group has a lot of intertia, but we're dwingling in time and commitment abilities
<snap-l> dwingling? That's a new one. ;)
<brousch> please keep your dwingling in your pants
<brousch> jjesse: http://glsec.softwaregr.org/
<snap-l> 3) I think it's more honest with ourselves about what we're doing as a group. One of the reasons I kept the CHC stuff on the calendar is because it "looked good". But it hasn't been an Ubuntu Hour in over a year.
<snap-l> And for selfish reasons, I hate the team reports that are required as part of the approval process. They're a pain in the butt.
<snap-l> Is there anyone opposed to us going unapproved should the time come for us to make a decision?
<brousch> It is fine with me
<Ahuka> No, I don't see any need for it anyway.
<snap-l> My hope is the council will do away with the distinction so we won't have to make the decision, but should we be called to make a decision, I think it's the better decision to take.
<waldo323> would it make it more difficult for us to become approved again if we found that we wanted to attain that status at some point in the future?
<snap-l> If anyone wants to talk offline, please feel free to email me: craig@decafbad.net
<snap-l> waldo323: I don't believe so. There's a grace period and some reforming that can happen
<snap-l> But I think the process has become entirely too bureaucratic
<snap-l> And the traditional reasons for approved teams are going away.
<snap-l> The sooner they remove the distinction, the happier folks will be.
<waldo323> it would be better to spend the time doing other things than paper work
<snap-l> Well, and not kidding ourselves either.
 * waldo323 nods
<snap-l> OK, so if nothing else on that topic, our last topic:
<snap-l> Community Service.
<snap-l> This is an idea that's been percolating in my head of just taking out some time (much like the global jam) that isn't tied to a particular event
<snap-l> and just do something related to Ubuntu
<jjesse> brousch,  thanks
<snap-l> No pressure. No drum beating.
<snap-l> I don't have much beyond those little notes, but if someone is interested, we could try for something in the next cycle.
<snap-l> Give it some thought. There's no need to decide this meeting. :)
<waldo323> are you looking for ideas like helping with habitat for humanity for a day and things like that?
<snap-l> Not necessarily, but that's something we could do as well.
<snap-l> Anywho, if you have any ideas, please feel free to post them to the list
<snap-l> and we can discuss at the next meeting
<snap-l> Any other business to discuss?
<brousch> I can't think of any
<snap-l> OK, I think that's it for me
<snap-l> and for this meeting
<snap-l> Thanks everyone!
<waldo323> thank you
<jjesse> so i'm here in Brookfield WI and all the Caribou coffees in Milwaukee are closing and only 1 of them is reopening as a Peets
<snap-l> Yeah, it's pretty fucked up.
<jjesse> they all close next sunday at noon
<snap-l> Nice.
<snap-l> How very clockwork of them
<jjesse> so going to load up before leaving :)
<snap-l> I've been buying mugs every time I've gon there
<jjesse> nice
<brousch> In git, I want to include a certain directory and the README.md within it, but I want to exclude everything else in that dir. How do I do that?
<rick_h_> add the rest to .gitignore
<rick_h_> always keep a clean git st command
<brousch> I think I got it
<brousch> backups/*
<brousch> ! backups/README.md
<brousch> brousch@foxmeat:~/Projects/viget-theme$ git st
<brousch> git: 'st' is not a git command. See 'git --help'.
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/923/ fixed :P
<brousch> Well other people will use this and I want to make sure they don't checkin a backup, which is about 2GB and contains information that shouldn't be in the repo
<rick_h_> gotcha
<rick_h_> so why the readme in the backup dir?
<brousch> To explain why it exists
<brousch> The backup dir needs to exist becaus eit gets mapped into a vagrant guest
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> oooh, that's some sneaky shit http://thejh.net/misc/website-terminal-copy-paste
<rick_h_> yea, Blazeix I think posted that over the weekend
<rick_h_> oh so true
<rick_h_> greg-g: _stink_ http://reasonsmysoniscrying.tumblr.com/ brilliant!
<_stink_> rick_h_: hahahaha
<_stink_> i saw a link to that earlier
<_stink_> gotta hit it later
<brousch> heh
<rick_h_> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/04/does-webkit-face-a-troubled-future-now-that-google-is-gone did not expect to see the word 'oracle' in this and now I'm afraid
<snap-l> I don't get the hullabaloo
<snap-l> My only concern is that Google drags it's heels on releasing the source
<snap-l> This reminds me of the XFree86 vs. Xorg split
<snap-l> in the end either they'll merge back together, or one will outpce the other one
<jcastro> jrwren: is that AD Azure thing basically PAAS AD?
<jcastro> like, a company can just pay to have AD?
<jrwren> no, I didnt' see that scenario mentioned, although it might work with persistent azure vpn.
<jcastro> oh so it's AD for the cloud instances?
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> you can federate to your premise AD or extend your permise AD into azure.
<snap-l> Annette Funecello died today.
<snap-l> All that is good and right in the world is gone
 * rick_h_ googles Annette Funecello
<jrwren> i was going to mourn by watching beach blanket bingo, but decided on psyco beach party instead.
<snap-l> Yeah, that's the problem; most of her work was Disney dreck.
<jrwren> arguably the first manufactured actress of disney
<snap-l> The proto-Britney
<jrwren> she was before hailey mills
<jrwren> britney left disney pretty early on.
<snap-l> Tried to find a list of Disney Actresses, but unfortunately it was all way too current
<snap-l> aka: didn't recognize any names on the list.
<snap-l> aka: old
<jrwren> I think of that red haired coke head girl as the more modern disney product
<avid_fan> !sed
<greg-g> ?
<snap-l> Who just turned on the regex on my machine?
<snap-l> ANSWERS! I WANT ANSWERS!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-09
<derekv> ggs
<derekv> =p wrong chat
<rick_h_> ok, I'm going to sound like a google fanboi or whatever, but wtf MS and company giong after android. You can have access to the source/android withuot the google bits, you just don't get access to the google bits.
<rick_h_> iOS you don't get access to ANYTHING
<brousch> context?
<rick_h_> sorry, assumed everyone's been seeing the anti trust complaints brought up in the EU by MS, Nokia, Oracle, etc
<rick_h_> http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2013/04/09/google-microsoft-antitrust/2066403/ for instance
<brousch> They are desperate
<snap-l> rick_h_: Microsoft is using Google paranoia to try to get some anti-trust shit started.
<snap-l> Any port in a storm, and all.
<jrwren> if I was ms, I'd be kicking and scratching like that too.
<jrwren> EU made them ship a version of their OS without browser, without media player - and for what?
<jrwren> to waste time really.
<jrwren> and cost court fees and stuff.
<rick_h_> so the 'share the pain' idea then?
<jrwren> Its pretty arguable that GOOG is even more entrenched in search than MS ever was in desktop computer.
<jrwren> yes.
<jrwren> share the pain.
<brousch> I really can't blame MS for going after Google on mobile
<jrwren> The government is crazy - it needs to beat up huge corporations equally.
<rick_h_> I think the stats show it's not equal though
<jrwren> i blame the EU
<rick_h_> MS had over 95% back then if I recall
<rick_h_> but yea, EU fail
<rick_h_> google share end of '12 67%
<snap-l> I do find it strangely satisfying that MS is bitching about OSS though.
<rick_h_> MS is still over 90% market share according to wikipedia
<snap-l> That's desktop
<snap-l> They're nowhere near that in mobile
<rick_h_> oh definitely
<snap-l> and they're noticing that mobile is the new PC
<rick_h_> but I'm comparing MS when they got in trouble with EU vs google's share of search
<snap-l> I don't think that's a valid comparison
<snap-l> you can switch search engines with a few keystrokes
<snap-l> you can't change your OS nearly as easily.
<rick_h_> ok, well just addressing jrwren above. :P
<rick_h_> " Its pretty arguable that GOOG is even more entrenched in search than MS ever was in desktop computer."
<rick_h_> this does seem to be a little bit like MS going after canonical by using it's free OS to go after music purchases, file storage users, etc
<jrwren> the case isn't about google phone share, its about google search share.
<jrwren> ms is going after canonical?
<jrwren> I don't see where MS is bitching about OSS.
<jrwren> snap-l: you reading between the lines somehwere?
<jrwren> http://thejh.net/misc/website-terminal-copy-paste
<snap-l> jrwren: There was a mention of Android in that article.
<jrwren> android is open source again?
<brousch> :P
<snap-l> Reminder: MUG Meeting tonight.
<rick_h_droid> party
<jhansonxi> A funding campaign for a 3D scanner (supports Linux): http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/photon-3d-scanner
<greg-g> I'm lazy, are the designs all freely licensed?
<jhansonxi> greg-g, are you referring to the scanner?
<greg-g> yeppers
<jhansonxi> No info about licensing so I think not.  Some of devs have open source experience.
<jhansonxi> It's small but big enough for capturing 3D meshes of small models and household items for use in Blender.
<jcastro> greg-g: thinking of you!
<jcastro> http://i.imgur.com/VDPR0EI.jpg
<greg-g> jhansonxi: sounds neat, I just have a policy against funding anything that isn't Freely licensed :)
<greg-g> jcastro: you and you shavers, denying your manhood ;)
<jcastro> :)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> so when we we move to Austin now? At least it should have better food than KC
<greg-g> wait, google fiber in Austin now?
<rick_h_> "mid-2014"
<greg-g> also, KC has pretty good BBQ, not as good as Texas, I admit, though ;)
<greg-g> hrmmmmmm, I doubt I can swing that with Carrie :)
<rick_h_> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57578651-93/google-fiber-heads-to-austin/
<Blazeix> well, if we have to move CHC due to Caribou issues, i suggest moving it to Austin, TX.
<rick_h_> hah!
<greg-g> hey, we're making changes anyways, just rip the bandaid off and do them all at once!
<rick_h_> but it's not portland :P
 * rick_h_ hates TX
<greg-g> the only good thing in TX is a buddy of mine who moved to Austin recently
<brousch> Sounds hot
<rick_h_> I do hear Austin is unlines most of TX, but there's the whole heat issue
<brousch> Too hot
<rick_h_> yep
<snap-l> But just think of it: you could saddle up some of the insects and fly to work
<snap-l> It'd be like riding a pegasus, except 100x creepier
<greg-g> snap-l: you ever tried to suggest music to the somafm djs?
 * greg-g loves the heat
<snap-l> greg-g: No, I haven't the foggiest how to do so
<greg-g> there are emails for the djs listed, snap-l, so I'll just do that, just wondering if you know they are generally receptive/unreceptive (nevermind what their website says)
<greg-g> Folk Forward has a really limited set of artists so far, I could send him like 20 names and it'll keep the same feel but be much less annoying (ugh, Ben Howard again?!)
<rick_h_> greg-g: https://plus.google.com/u/0/104537541227697934010/posts/ZctvqrYf4sy !!! /me wants!
<greg-g> rick_h_: that's awesome
<jrwren> rick_h_: hahaha, you are gonna build that, aren't you?
<rick_h_> jrwren: I mean come on, bottle of wine, some crackers. Ride bikes down to the park withthe wife. Tell me that doesn't get you badass husband points!
<greg-g> haha
<greg-g> I normally just use my pannier, but this is sexier
<rick_h_> fold out table
<brousch> Who can pick one of these up for me? http://blog.djangocircus.com/post/47543083800/django-pony-unchained-hoodies
<jrwren> yup.
<jcastro> that is awesome
<snap-l> Linode just upped the memory on their offerings
<snap-l> $20 for 1GB
<brousch> nice
<snap-l> Howdy.
<rick_h_> party party
<greg-g> I'm on a tall building roof with lyz (pleia2), it is super nice out here in SF, I'm kind hot in the sun
 * rick_h_ looks out into the rainy 40deg day
<greg-g> hey, we don't get many nice days here
<snap-l> WE're out here at MUG. :)
<snap-l> Hello weeds
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-10
<greg-g> I learned something awesome, flights.google.com is powered by LISP in the backend
<snap-l> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren> greg-g: are you sure?  google is pretty anti-lisp.  did they aquire it?
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, ISA or something or other was the company they acquired
<greg-g> jrwren: a googler lives with me and told me last night
<jrwren> cool.
<jrwren> like when yahoo aquired paul grahams store?
<jrwren> and removed the lisp and destroyed it? :)
<jrwren> google will probably do the same thing :p
<greg-g> heh, hope not
<greg-g> but man, flights.google.com is sooo much better than anything else I've tried
<greg-g> the graph of cost variance by time, wonderful
<jrwren> i just went to it and realized I have no destination.
<jrwren> no where to go.
<jrwren> i like home
<greg-g> jrwren: :) the only trip I have planned is amsterdam in may for a MediaWiki hackathon
<jrwren> hackathon, right.
<greg-g> I'll be hacking
<greg-g> .... my lungs out
<rick_h_> dogsled driver!
<jrwren> hahahah.
<jrwren> smokeathon is more like it.
<jrwren> is the hackathon at a coffee house?
<snap-l> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OIt4kUWyqsE/UWVs_FdZsnI/AAAAAAAAWKs/ZnZd2uKxhg8/s554/wtfmcds.jpg
<greg-g> wait, really, the new xbox console is seriously called xbox720?
<greg-g> talk about version number inflation
<snap-l> Why not?
<greg-g> and people were mad at chrome/firefox!
<snap-l> I'm sure then next one will be 1080
<greg-g> will it be p or i?
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> But what's funny is I'm sure people will confuse it with not being 1080p
<greg-g> 'zactly
<snap-l> SO, the original was a 180
<snap-l> The second one came around full circle
<snap-l> and this new one has been around the block a few times.
<snap-l> Or does it mean they're giving us the run-around on DRM and always-on? :)
<snap-l> All I know is whomever does their marketing needs to be flogged
<greg-g> yeah, just saw an article on that, but the 720 part is what inflammed me ;)
<snap-l> Honestly, I can't think of a good reason to upgrade to the new consoles outside of habit
<greg-g> go on, be a good consumer, follow the habit we spend millions marketing to make you believe it's just a habit
<jrwren> xbox 1440
<jhansonxi> I think they're just trying to stick to a circle theme, like Blu-Ray and "red ring of death"
<snap-l> It's taking every last bit of my willpower to not write in the memo field of this check to the Treasury "For: a do-nothing congress, who'd rather prop up banks too big to fail instead of punishing them"
<dzho> also, tl;dr
<dzho> and "propping up" doesn't jibe with "do nothing"
<dzho> more like "do the wrong thing"
<dzho> except, of course, until I get my money out.  prop them up *until* then
<greg-g> I've said it once and I'll say it again, this Dell XPS is the worst laptop I've had in a long time
<snap-l> dzho: A door stop can still prop a door while remaining perfectly still
<dzho> yes.
<rick_h_> greg-g: :(
<rick_h_> greg-g: I keep finding people that want to order one I have to scare away
<greg-g> yay! ubuntu official support! what?! this is the worst kernel experience I've had in a long time!
<greg-g> so bad
<greg-g> "just install the PPA" A) isn't the right answer and B) still doesn't help
<greg-g> hahaha: "There is zero overlap between developers who prefer IPAs and developers who prefer IDEs." - @hipsterhacker
<jhansonxi> greg-g: What's the problem with the XPS?  I'm thinking of replacing my 10-year old Toshiba.
<greg-g> horrible support from Ubuntu, heh
<greg-g> jhansonxi: seriously, if you're thinking about an XPS, you actually want a Lenovo x-series
<jhansonxi> I haven't started shopping seriously yet.  Not sure what I want.  I have a dead Inspiron 11z netbook that may be fixable but I probably need a bigger screen.  I've looked at some ZaReason models and other Linux vendors.
<jhansonxi> There's also the Google chromebook
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-11
<gamerchick02> hullo. anyone around?
<snap-l> Hello there
<gamerchick02> how's it going? i managed to watch part of Mr. Selfridge and then fall asleep so i didn't make it to the meetingo n Sunday. :(
<gamerchick02> how's CHC going?
<rick_h_> party party
<gamerchick02> woot
<gamerchick02> long day. i gott aget back there again, but i'm not sure if me and my mac would be welcome. :-P
<Blazeix> gamerchick02: the macs are making a comeback
<Blazeix> 4 thinkpads vs 3 macs
<gamerchick02> i bought an 11" Air and it was probably the best purchase I've made, computer-wise. except for the parts for my desktop, of course.
<gamerchick02> i've always wanted a thinkpad.
<gamerchick02> i think they're super cool
<gamerchick02> i'm jealous of rick_h_'s thinkpad (i think he has the 12" one with awesomeWM, yes?)
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: yes
<gamerchick02> cool. i saw it and was like, "wow, that's so cool"
<gamerchick02> i was rocking the System76 at the time and it was heavy like whoah.
<gamerchick02> reminds me of my work laptop. my CAD beast, hah. the new CAD machines are even more beastly
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/ireneros/status/322104096368779264 ftw
<rick_h_> http://pyvideo.org/video/517/pyohio-2010--wrangling-the-bits--standardizing-ho
<rick_h_> waldo323: ^^
<waldo323> thanks
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/04/if-you-make-pcs-and-youre-not-lenovo-you-might-be-in-trouble/
<aprez> good evening good evening good evening
<snap-l> jcastro: http://arcadeheroes.com/2013/04/09/next-from-stern-pinball-metallica-pinball/
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/LujwY84RtnU <- I owe you a beer. :)
<rick_h_> oh wow, been on G+ for a year?
<snap-l> a-yep
<rick_h_> heh, how did you find that post?
<rick_h_> I never really seem to go back through old G+
<greg-g> jcastro: http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/2013/04/09/how-to-increase-donations-to-an-open-source-project/
<greg-g> "Ask for a donation when the download is occurring not when a user is browsing the project site.
<greg-g> "
<jcastro> that's really cool
<jcastro> I'll pass it along
<snap-l> rick_h_: It was a Google search
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/fIiOeCMHmrJ0UOL1DsWy/ <- This is why I <3 Ting.
<greg-g> snap-l: is that the TOS change? yeah, good people
<greg-g> also, spending <$50/mo for two smart phones == awesome
<snap-l> Yeah
<greg-g> thanks again :)
<snap-l> Worst bill was $56 for three phones
<snap-l> NP. Glad it's working out. :)
<greg-g> you should be, otherwise I'd be berating you constantly
<snap-l> Hah. :)
<snap-l> I'd expect that from jcastro, even if it was working. :)
<greg-g> but really, I was already on sprint, so nothing changed service coverage-wise for me
<greg-g> true
<jcastro> heh
<greg-g> he probably drove a Bereta in HS but changed the decals to read berates
<jcastro> I switched from tmo->simplemobile for similar savings
<jcastro> also, I don't berate everyone
<jcastro> just people who don't agree with me
<snap-l> Neat thing is I already sent back a phone that wasn't working, and they replaced it
<snap-l> jcastro: Which is.... um... planet Earth. ;)
<jcastro> unless you disagree with me on music, technology, cars, shaving, and basically everything else, we're good!
<jrwren> snap-l: I'm totally gonna put that in my memo field. TY for idea.
<jrwren> rick_h_: do you have preference for implicit or explicit tuples?
<jrwren> e.g.
<jrwren> a, b = f()
<jrwren> or
<jrwren> (a, b) = f()
<jrwren> and same for statement parameter, mostly return
<jrwren> return a, b   -= or =-   return (a, b)
<rick_h_> jrwren: so I hate when implicit tuple ofr return values
<rick_h_> but for splitting a,b = f() I like it
<jrwren> i think i'm going to try to prefer explicit always, but I really don't know why.
<rick_h_> yea, I don't think you'll see that much
<jrwren> nope.
<jrwren> a coworker pointed out in review that i was not consistent.
<jrwren> in one function i had return a, b and in antoehr I had return (c, d)
<rick_h_> yea, so for return I don't like it in particular because it's too easy to edit/change something and have that trailing comma or such
<jrwren> i'm not sure what you mean?
<rick_h_> return one, two
<rick_h_> return one, two, three
<rick_h_> ret = {one: xx, two: xxx: three
<rick_h_> return ret,
<rick_h_> doh, tuple came back
<jrwren> ah.
<rick_h_> just that when you have the implicit I seem to eventually get bit by refactoring that ends up with a tuple error which shows up as an unpacking error in the code
<rick_h_> and it doesn't show until it's used, usually later in the code
<rick_h_> so I guss I have two rules. if you're doing some work in a method first, last = user.getFullname() is preferred
<rick_h_> if you're returning: return (first, last)
<rick_h_> is preferred
<rick_h_> imo and all that
<jrwren> i'll take it!
<jrwren> thanks.
<snap-l> jrwren: What are you putting in your memo field?
<snap-l> Finally, an Open Source Project that doesn't suck: http://opensourcevacuumcleaner.com/
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> if it doesn't suck...then wouldn't that means it sucks?
<jrwren> snap-l: something about bad us congress.
<greg-g> snap-l: "for a do nothing congress etc"
<snap-l> Ah. :)
<snap-l> Right. :)
<snap-l> I need at least a 2-3 hour window to know where someone is referencing. ;)
<rick_h_> man, I checked out a review of that system76 high end desktop. The silence of the water cool is sweeeeet
<rick_h_> I need a Sentry to github issues button
<greg-g> this..... isn't good: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/925/
<rick_h_> hmm, that seems to be a sign of 'boom'
<_stink_> heh, broken dmesg?
<_stink_> er
<greg-g> apparently the "double free" thing is a weird bug that happens sometimes, according to paultag
<greg-g> not with dmesg only
<jhansonxi> greg-g, with that kind of error in something as simple as dmesg I would suspect failing hardware (bad RAM, overheating CPU)
<greg-g> :(
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> ugh, yeah, shutdown -h now isn't completing
<jhansonxi> greg-g, Its gone rogue!  RUN!
<greg-g> poor little eeepc
<jhansonxi> The fan failed in my friend's EeePC.  Was a pain to replace but it is possible.
<aprez> Hello hello hello :D
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> Evening.
<rick_h_> evening
<greg-g> afternoon
<rick_h_> psh, don't be playing that. Everyone knows our evening with 30deg and 2" of rain is so awesome
<rick_h_> and afternoons in places with sun is completely overrated
<rick_h_> phew, is it friday yet?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-12
<jrwren> evening.
<jrwren> i actually had good luck with packaging with git-buildpackage. yay debian/ubuntu
<rick_h_> cool
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> ok, maybe driving to Oakland isn't such a bad plan... http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-04-12/hacking-an-airplane-with-only-an-android-phone
<brousch> I am so tired today
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, that one really got some attention
<rick_h_> snap-l: so time to figure out how to hide my android devices from security
<snap-l> Good luck with that. :)
<snap-l> Frankly, flying is overrated
<snap-l> go by boat.
<snap-l> also, <3 it when I have to fix code that I never wanted to touch in the first place.
<snap-l> It's broken in the other system too, but because it's all new, it needs to not be broken
<snap-l> And it's broken because it was never designed to never have data
<snap-l> so the moment this releases, my fixes will be moot
<snap-l> And I was so looking forward to today.
<snap-l> me and my big mouth
<snap-l> yes, I'm a whiny bitch.
<snap-l> so, should I take the App.net account that Ars is offering? :)
<nullspace> hello all
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> Howdy.
<ColonelPanic001> 'morning
<rick_h_> yay it arrived! http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/8643031022/ 5mo and 10 days from order to delivery
<snap-l> Looks rather plane.
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h_> hehe
<brousch> This Synology NAS is slick
<rick_h_> <3 mine
<brousch> I put 4 Samsung 840 Pro 512GB SSDs in it
<rick_h_> nice!
<rick_h_> I just have the low end dual one with 2-2TB disks in it
<brousch> I might have to get another one for our slow storage. This has such a nice interface
<jrwren> O_O
<jrwren> that is a total waste of a NAS
<jrwren> why the hell would you put SSD into it when you are using it over 1Gigabit ?
<jrwren> 4 rusty disks can max out 1gigabit, no problem.
<brousch> It has an esata port
<jrwren> ah, that is a good reason.
<brousch> Also usb3
<jrwren> usb3 is still slower than gigabit, isn't it?
<brousch> Really a nice, flexible device
<jrwren> oh, 5gigabit.
<jrwren> nice.
<brousch> It came with 2 cat5e cables, but no esata, so I have to run out and get one
<brousch> But at least I could set it up over the network
<jrwren> i don't think i've ever seen an esata cable.
<UnFixed> i think usb3 gets closer to 3Gb/s
<UnFixed> but yes, faster than gigabit
<rick_h_> heh, I've got a pair of external esata drive carriers. One 2.5 and one 3.5
<rick_h_> <3
<rick_h_> best full system backup/recovery every done.
<brousch> Is an esata cable just a regular sata cable?
<rick_h_> no
<rick_h_> well, basically
<greg-g> yeah, basically
<brousch> it has no little notch
<rick_h_> I was htinking that the external one was keyed a bit or something
<rick_h_> but I'd have to go pull it out and compare atm
<brousch> http://www.amazon.com/SATA-to-eSATA-Cable/dp/B003ENM5IA
<brousch> Well I just realized my server has no esata port, so I need a little more than a cable
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> yea, time to get a new mobo! new computer!
<rick_h_> or a esata card if you want to go the little route
<brousch> Forgot how old that thing is
<jrwren> i thought the external one was powered.
<brousch> WTF nobody has esata cards in stock
<brousch> Closest computer shop had no cards and no esata cables. Best Buy had a cable, but no cards. Farther shop had nothing
<snap-l> eSATA never really caught on, that's why it's hard to find
<snap-l> You can trip on USB cables and cards all day long though
<brousch> right
<jrwren> why do you need a card? just plug it into a sata port.
<snap-l> eSATA is not the same
<jrwren> afaik it is exactly teh same, just different pinout.
<jrwren> has power
<snap-l> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thecus-brings-sata-external-storage,1245-2.html
<brousch> I don't even see a hold adequate for running the cable into the server case
<brousch> a hole
<snap-l> Pinouts are the same, but they purposely made different connectors
<jrwren> cut the connector to fit.
<snap-l> jrwren: You'd have to cut the connector on the drive
<brousch> Or I can delay a few days and order a proper setup from The Internets
<snap-l> see that notch?
<brousch> OH, both places had a bunch of firewire cards and cables. Who the hell uses firewire?!
<snap-l> Macintosh
<snap-l> DV cameras
<snap-l> pro studios
<brousch> Not since like 2006
<snap-l> You'd be surprised
<brousch> I wonder if Radioshack is a worth a try
<brousch> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200111
<brousch> This is all I frickin need
<snap-l> Mac-heads swear by their firewire. it wasn't until 2010 that it stopped being as popular
<snap-l> brousch: Are you kidding?
<snap-l> Radio Shack barely has anything anymore other than annoying salespeople
<brousch> Yeah, but it's on the way home
<snap-l> I mean, it might be worth a shot, but gird your loins for the inevitable "who is your cellphone provider" question
<snap-l> and "hey, we have batteries"
 * snap-l just came up with a rude retort for the second one
<jrwren> i've got a laptop with a failing internal drive, and an external esata connector. This conversation has inspired me to try that esata direct to an external drive
<snap-l> I'll be interested to hear your successes and failures
<jrwren> googel esata hacks
<snap-l> the ones I'm seeing are all adding a hardware port to a machine
<jrwren> me too :(
<snap-l> brousch: Also, Rat Shack has esata, but not in stores acc to their site
<snap-l> brousch: road trip to Microcenter? ;)
<jrwren> http://metku.net/index.html?path=mods/baby-sata/index_eng
<jrwren> lol
<snap-l> didn't load here
<snap-l> jrwren: See? :)
<jrwren> yup
<ColonelPanic001> heh, rat shack
<ColonelPanic001> in ham radio circles, I've heard the term "cellphone hut" used a lot.
<jrwren> juju kinda works around debconf afaict. I'm only moderately surprised.
<brousch> I give up. Ordering from Newegg and I'll do it next week
<snap-l> brousch: That's the spirit
<brousch> Too tired
<jrwren> ah, no it doesnt, it works with debconf. just took me a while to find that part.
<jcastro> rick_h_: I might be going a bit overboard ... http://imgur.com/A5LZV9T
<greg-g> what the ef?
<greg-g> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130404/01213022571/thomas-cooley-law-schools-reputation-is-dumps-so-its-thinking-about-changing-its-name.shtml
<greg-g> jcastro: you have a problem
<rick_h_> jcastro: :P hah, I'm still on one razor with one set of blades.
<rick_h_> jcastro: if you get the good stuff to start no need for 20 of them
<rick_h_> oh wait, that's your pile?
<jcastro> I don't collect crap, that is the good stuff, lol
<rick_h_> sorry, just fixing a broken test and read that as greg saying I had a problem
<jcastro> yeah
<rick_h_> dude, 4 diff razors? and diff kinds of blades?
<jcastro> stay classy Cooley law
<rick_h_> 3 more and one for each day of the week. Over half way there
<jcastro> yeah I like to experiment
<jcastro> the short Merkur HD is my travel razor, that's why it's so stubby
<rick_h_> yea, that's one thing I need but didn't think the TSA would let me take one
<rick_h_> so I do portable razors for sprints
<jcastro> the TTO's are the daily shavers, and the one in the box I found today at an antique shop
<jcastro> the 4th long handle one in the middle is Jill's
<jcastro> I am convincing her this is awesome
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> you go
<jcastro> http://www.reddit.com/r/wicked_edge/comments/1c8jrt/found_a_cool_vintage_gillette_at_an_antique_store/
<greg-g> jcastro: also, stay classy western michigan university
<jcastro> I need to find a kickass wood stand for this stuff
<jcastro> greg-g: there's a cooley law @ MSU too
<jcastro> it's like, way to tarnish the brand guys ...
<jcastro> rick_h_: the one TTO is my birth year (1975) so I had to have it
<rick_h_> jcastro: that's cool
<jcastro> and the other one is a Gillette Fat Boy which is like, fucking the awesomest razor ever made
<jcastro> 1961.
<jcastro> you can rotate the knob and adjust the angle-of-attack on the blade, etc.
<rick_h_> ok, time for dinner break before...bbiab
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-13
<derekv> i wasn't really crazy about the last two dr episodes
<derekv> but I'm a sucker for disapointment
<snap-l> yeah, i thinkthisseasonisgoingtobeastinker
<snap-l> well, i need to use the space bar
<snap-l> Good morning, fellow Earth travellers
<brousch> it is snowing
<snap-l> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/tethercell-control-battery-operated-devices-from-your-smartphone-or-tablet
<snap-l> Either it's brilliant, or stupid. Cannot determine which
<brousch> snap-l: fucking brilliant
<brousch> The ability to disable a toy from anywhere
<brousch> To find a remote stuck in the VCR
<tony-smlr> SMLR is live now!  Video: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCB0VMOf9Kw53CMh9bl4X5nA?v=lqJjdPX9pSY , Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<snap-l> I <3 the Salvation Army.
<snap-l> Picked up a disc on a lark (Ivan Moravec plays Chopin). Didn't know who he was prior (I'm a luddite some times), but apparently he's regarded as one of the foremost interpreters of Chopin.
<snap-l> Also found an Astor Piazzolla recording with Astor Piazzolla performing his own work.
<brousch> I have no idea what you're talking about
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-14
<snap-l> Windows really hates me.
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2013/04/13/windows-hates-me/
<jrwren> snap-l: i'll have to snag that Ivan Moravec. I assume you like his interpretation?
<rick_h_> woot, first bookie commit from the tablet
<rick_h_> and double woot for a new contributor
<snap-l> jrwren: It works for me, but I'm not a piano snob
<snap-l> I have no idea what too much rubato is. :)
<derekv> http://www.theonion.com/articles/my-computer-totally-hates-me-vs-god-do-i-hate-that,11538/
<snap-l> I really, really hate Windows XP
<snap-l> More importantly, I hate whomever decided to not ship device drivers for different hardware.
<snap-l> So now I have a copy of my parent's machine that won't boot because it's in a virtual machine
<snap-l> It gets to mup.sys, and promptly shits
<dzho> everytime I add a network printer to someone's win box, I have similar dark thoughts.
<dzho> why tf couldn't they have just put generic ps and pcl drivers in there?
<rick_h_> the thing is that windows XP is OLD! Linux or even OSX from that long ago (...what year did OSX come out?) would also suck
<derekv> windows is bs.
<derekv> simply BS
<derekv> frankly the reason for its popularity is largely due to ms office
<derekv> I use OS/2
<derekv> much better =p
<derekv> trying to figure out why i keep getting charged like .45c/mo from aws when the panel reports i got no instances and nothing in s3
<dzho> OS/2!
<dzho> rick_h_: you know, PCL and PS are even older.
<dzho> and, last time I had this experience it was on something newer than XP
<dzho> win 7 I think
<rick_h_> dzho: I did mean more for snap-l and the install issues
<rick_h_> dzho: for printing yea, everyone wants a special driver that puts a pretty special UX in front of the user and comes with some lovely branding for you to get advertised through
<derekv> open letter anyone who makes an app/application for steaming audio and does not provide a place to tweak buffering settings-> your app is BS.
<derekv> (this includes iTunes)
<derekv> also i frequently regret having bought this ipad when i think of how much it costs compaired to a nexus7
<derekv> like i'd rather program for ios than actually use it =p
<derekv> the way that apps are so isolated seems a bit dumb, like almost you are stepping back to dos days
<snap-l> rick_h_: understood, but ffs you would hope it wouldn't take a complete dump just because you replaced the machine.
<snap-l> i find that line of thinking rerprehensoble
<snap-l> But, on the plus side, it got my parents to consider using a Virtual machine.
<snap-l> So that's a plus
<derekv> anyone used carbonite
<derekv> rates look reasonable
<snap-l> derekv: I have not, but TWIT advertises them
<snap-l> So at least they pass some of the twit muster
<derekv> sure
<snap-l> That said, they advertised the Drobo like crazy, and now they don't.
<derekv> they sure like spinright
<derekv> feel like its half the show
<derekv> this week in spinright is awesome
<derekv> the whole twit podcasts thing sortof not my favorite, good guys but they are long winded, they tend to explain things in a pretty good way but take a long time to do it
<derekv> then they talk about spinright and other sponsers a lot and i just can't take it for 2hrs
<derekv> i usually learn stuff when i listen but feel like it should be 45 minutes not 2hr
<snap-l> Spinrite is pretty good, though
<snap-l> and that's how Steve Gibson makes his money
<derekv> https://myblogtest.telegr.am/
<derekv> static site generator based (hoisted) hosting service
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-07
<cmaloney> jsjgruber: Awesome!
<jsjgruber> cmaloney, Monthly meeing at 9?
<cmaloney> That's the plan. :)
<jsjgruber> I gotta put it on the calendar.
<cmaloney> I have it on the loco calendar but for whatever reason Google Calendar isn't picking it up
<jsjgruber> Strange. Looking forward to the MUG meeting Tuesday.
<cmaloney> me too
<jsjgruber> cmaloney, I took a look at http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/753/detail/ical/ and it only has one event--next month's regular meeting on 5/5.
<jsjgruber> Just used wget on it
<jsjgruber> I think I'm full of it. I'm going to try it again.
<jsjgruber> I was full of it, wasn't looking at the correct calendar. When I tried to add the correct calendar to google I got a parsing error. Subsequent retries don't give me a message though. python vobject seems like it can read it however.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: http://www.rushisaband.com/blog/2014/04/06/3987/Grapes-Under-Pressure-Wine-Event-with-Geddy-Lee-and-Alex-Lifeson-charity-auction
<cmaloney> Yeah, there's something screwy with Google and that calendar.
<cmaloney> We'll be starting the meeting in about...
<cmaloney> now. :)
<cmaloney> Welcome to the April Ubuntu US MI meeting
<cmaloney> May I have a show of hands for who all is part of the meeting tonight?
<cmaloney> Don't be shy.
 * widox may or may not be here
<jsjgruber> I'm here
<cmaloney> w00!
<cmaloney> Anyone else?
<cmaloney> OK, well let's get started then
<cmaloney> First order of business" Ubuntu Global Jam recap
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/752/detail/ (Here's the agenda)
<cmaloney> I think I can speak for everyone when I say "snuck up on me"
<cmaloney> Or at least it feels like this release snuck up on me. :)
<widox> yep. wait, its Apirl?!
<cmaloney> I didn't get a chance to get to any jamming
<cmaloney> I think the only person I saw jamming was jsjgruber
<cmaloney> widox: Yep, it's April. :)
<jsjgruber> Then I guess I wasn't late :-)
<cmaloney> jsjgruber: Not really
<cmaloney> I think you can congratulate yourself on being our participant in the Global Jam
<cmaloney> Any participation is better than none. :)
<jsjgruber> Outch. Gotta stop that back patting.
<cmaloney> but yeah, I think last month's missed meeting really put a damper on things.
<jsjgruber> No doubt
<cmaloney> That and we haven't been paying a whole lot of attention to the outside world.
<cmaloney> Likely the snow. ;)
<cmaloney> I'm OK with chalking it up to snow.
<cmaloney> Anyone opposed? :)
<jsjgruber> No objection, it was definitely the snow.
<cmaloney> Cool. We're blaming the snow. :)
<jsjgruber> :-)
<cmaloney> Anyothing else on the Global Jam?
<cmaloney> If not I'd like to move on to the next topic:
<cmaloney> PENGUICON RELEASE PARTY!
<cmaloney> Penguicon is happening next month (First weekend of May)
<cmaloney> And as luck would have it we're celebrating the release of 14.04 LTS around the same time
<cmaloney> And since we've had good participation at Penguicon for the previous release parties I went ahead and scheduled us an event there.
<cmaloney> So we'll be meeting at Penguicon for one of the Ubuntu Release Parties.
<cmaloney> Note: if you want to schedule an Ubuntu MI release party please feel free to do so
<cmaloney> LMK and I'll get it on the Loco event calendat
<cmaloney> Calendar
<cmaloney> Anywho, last I checked we were scheduled on Saturday from 8pm to 9pm.
<cmaloney> http://2014.penguicon.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/2014-Penguicon-Schedule-by-room.pdf
<cmaloney> Sorry, 8pm-10pm.
<cmaloney> Which is right against the Smithee awards. :(
<cmaloney> But alas, that's the plan as of this moment
<cmaloney> more to come of course.
<cmaloney> UNfortunately that means we'll be meeting the day after the release party in IRC, so this is the last "big meeting" before the release party.
<cmaloney> Again, if you want to organize a release party outside of the Penguicon party please let me know
<cmaloney> and publicize it on the mailing list.
<cmaloney> I know not everyone is going to Penguicon
<cmaloney> and I know that West Michigan might have something amorpheously planned as well.
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> I'd like to have other folks take over some of the event planning if possible.
<cmaloney> and I know we're a lattitudinally and logitudinally diverse set of folks.
<cmaloney> so if Penguicon's distance might as well be the "Here be Dragons" part of your mental map and you want to have a release party please feel free to start one up.
<cmaloney> Regardless, I hope to see and meet many of you during the release party.
<jsjgruber> I'm not aware of anyone interested in Ubuntu in my area. There's a Toledo unix users group but they seem to be more interested in Arch et al.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I think Ohio has the same issues that we have: lots of geographically diverse cities.
<cmaloney> Grand Rapids, Lansing, Traverse City, Detroit, Port Huron
<cmaloney> Even Flint.
<cmaloney> There's some distance between us
<jsjgruber> Yep, at least it seems like Columbus is a hotbed of interest in all things *nix.
<brousch> I have nothing planned
<cmaloney> Right
<cmaloney> brousch: You just don't know it yet. :)
<jsjgruber> Thanks for arranging the Penguicon event, Craig.
<cmaloney> np. Twas easy
<cmaloney> Penguicon does a lot of heavy lifting for the event.
<cmaloney> Anything else related to the release party?
<cmaloney> (Also: I ordered the 14.04 discs. Not sure if they'll be here in time for the release party)
<cmaloney> But will send them out to folks as requested
<cmaloney> I'll send out a note to the mailing list once I have them in my hot little hands.
<jsjgruber> That's good.
<jsjgruber> What's the date for Trusty?
<cmaloney> April 26th
<cmaloney> er, sorry.
<cmaloney> April 17th
<jsjgruber> Thanks
<cmaloney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<cmaloney> Any other questions?
<jsjgruber> I have a suggestion
<jsjgruber> Off the topic of release parties
<cmaloney> Sure thing
<jsjgruber> A little thing I try to do to help a little in bandwidth for the release--
<jsjgruber> I wait until a few days before release and zsync the last daily for the development release (this time after this Thursday)...
<jsjgruber> Then I zsync the release, which has never changed a thing...Then I join a bittorrent becomeing a seeder within just a couple of minutes.
<cmaloney> cool
<jsjgruber> I figure it helps get the torrent going
<cmaloney> yeah, I think I'm going to try to do something like that as well
<cmaloney> especially since this is a LTS
<jsjgruber> I'm doing well with Trusty. How are reports? Anyone hear anything?
<Havenstance> How can I install Ubuntu on a separate drive from my windows without breaking win 8?
<cmaloney> I haven't played with it but from what I've heard it's really shaping up to be a solid release.
<rick_h_> I've got it on 3 machines now
<rick_h_> get it now, less installing to do on slower pipes later
<jsjgruber> Havenstance, when you install from the CD you can download from the Ubuntu web site, it presents you with that option. I'd wait for the next release is released on the 17th, however.
<jsjgruber> Havenstance, you can have a look at askubuntu.com, ask here and on #ubuntu for help when you are ready to do it.
<Havenstance> Yeah I found it I'm doing a test run now I want to see what all I can run on it before the new release when that drops I plan to install it fresh without win if possible
<Havenstance> I picked erase then chose the disk I wanted vs the ssd it will either work or not lol
<Havenstance> I have a ghost IMG of win so I'm not to worried just didn't want to if I didn't have to
<jsjgruber> Havenstance, yep, I often install to flash drives myself. Nice and cheap if a little slow. cmaloney anything else we should cover in our meeting?
<Havenstance> Oh shit didn't know there was a meeting haven't checked my email lol sorry guys :(
<jsjgruber> No problem.
<Havenstance> If the meeting is regarding the new release do we know what type of ssd support if any there will be?
<Havenstance> That's been my question since 13.10
<cmaloney> I think we're set for the meeting.
<cmaloney> Havenstance: I don't know particulars about the release.
<jsjgruber> Thanks, Craig.
<cmaloney> Thanks everyone for coming out!
<Havenstance> Heh sry for hijacking the meeting
<jsjgruber> Havenstance, np, you didn't know.  I'm afraid I don't know about SSD support either. I know there are some UI changes, but I'm more interested in robustness issues than hardware.
<Havenstance> jsjgruber, yeah I was only asking because the one time I tried to put 13.10 on my SSD in place of windows I spent days trying to get this thing working and it wouldn't. Unless I ran the SSD in IDE mode which seemed to defeat the purpose of having an SSD anyway
<Havenstance> but even still ubuntu is a great OS and I appreciate everything that everyone who works on it is doing for the community. I've always liked ubuntu's approach to Linux
<jsjgruber> I see. I just don't know about SSD's. They sound cool, and I tried to debug a problem that people were having, in part, because their systems booted so fast. askubuntu may have some information for you. There have also been some recent Ubuntu 14.04 reviews that might mention this area.
<jsjgruber> Havenstance, yep about Ubuntu itself. I think the community is generally very cool.
<Havenstance> I'll do some reading, I just figured while we had some people who work for canonical in here figured maybe someone might know :).
<jsjgruber> Cool
<rick_h_> Havenstance: what are you looking for?
<rick_h_> Havenstance: what kind of ssd support are you looking for? It adds trim support, but that's all I know about.
<rick_h_> and I don't recall if that's trusty or the last release that had that
<Havenstance> rick_h_, if it has trim support then it will probably run on SSD
<rick_h_> Havenstance: it's run on ssd's forever
<rick_h_> I've been ssd only for 4 years? 5 maybe?
<Havenstance> IIRC, it had trim in 13.10 but it didn't support AHCI boot mode at least not with my particular mobo
<Havenstance> soon as I went to IDE with no AHCI mode it worked well
<rick_h_> I've been using ssd in desktop and laptop for at least 4 years. It's not ssd that's the issue. Must have been something else with your chipset
<Havenstance> possibly, they just said that the SSD wasn't officially supported yet.
<rick_h_> yea, whoever told you that was nuts
<Havenstance> some guy in #ubuntu
<Havenstance> no clue the name lol
<rick_h_> ok, well nuts with taste :)
<Havenstance> been over a year ago
<cmaloney> They may mean some of the special SSD extensions
<Havenstance> he said its been known to run on some SSDs but the SSD wasn't offcially supported by canonical. whether its true or not I don't officially know as I never really took the time to research it, I took it at face value and put ubuntu on my ATA and never had a problem again.
<cmaloney> like TRIM support
<cmaloney> but I think TRIM is on by default for 14.04
<rick_h_> I guess. Maybe I've not run into strange ssd drive implementations and not noticed it
<Havenstance> Only reason I even asked tonight was cuz I haven't dual booted in so long I forgot. but I ended up going with a VM on my 2nd screen so I could use Ubuntu and Windows side-by-side.
<rick_h_> I'm pretty much intel or bust on ssds, though I have two non-intel for my msata second drives
<rick_h_> but never had to think about it
<Havenstance> rick_h_, its possible that I did something wrong too
<Havenstance> this was like my first go with 13.10 I think
<Havenstance> but I have an OCZ Vector as my SSD
<Havenstance> so maybe its actually the prob vs SSD in general who knows :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: or widox didn't one of you run tt-rss?
<cmaloney> Looking into running your own?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: no, someone suggested an extention to submit links to bookie
<rick_h_> cmaloney: and looking for someone that's used it that can advise or be bribed :)
<cmaloney> Ah, OK.
<rick_h_> https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/384 ftr
<bookiebot> open - bookie sending plugin for tt-rss
<cmaloney> I might be bribed into using it. :)
<rick_h_> I've had an open bug about trying to get newsblur updated to work with it
<cmaloney> but currently am running rss2email
<rick_h_> I love the idea of sending stuff from rss straight to bookmarks
<cmaloney> yeah, that's an interesting prospect.
<cmaloney> Especially since I'm pretty vicious with deleting old RSS entries.
<rick_h_> yea, same here. I go through, and if I want to keep it around open it, then bookmark it
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, for a bit, I'm on newsblur
<rick_h_> greg-g: ah ok
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> morn
<Havenstance> new 14.04 just installed in less than 5 mins... EPIC
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<Havenstance> not too bad, I'll be leaving for work in just a couple minutes
<Havenstance> but once I get there it shouldn't be too bad
<cmaloney> cool
<Haven|Home> early though, hate early days lol. but anyway heading out i'll see ya in about an hour cmaloney
<cmaloney> Laterness.
<widox> rick_h_: I used to, I'm currently using feedly
<cmaloney> Apparently nobody wants to run their own RSS service :)
<widox> the biggest reason I stopped using it was for the lack of being mobile friendly
<widox> but, that was a few years ago
<greg-g> there's now a ttrss app in F-droid, haven't used it...
<brousch> cmaloney: There are a couple of newer forks of planet-planet
<brousch> I guess that' more aggregator than reader though
<brousch> Automatically submit each RSS feed item to Bookie with a tag "unread", then create a reader that polls those and removes the "unread" tag as you read
<cmaloney> brousch: That sounds painful
<cmaloney> I think I'm going to try to install tt-rss in a lxc container and see if I like it
<brousch> Nah, a small call to the bookie api from a modified planet-planet, then a mobile app
<cmaloney> or I can just use rss2email and be done with it. :)
<brousch> weak
<brousch> I might make the Bookie thing once private bookmarks are available
<cmaloney> If you want to complicate a workflow please start with your own. ;)
<brousch> Did you rent drums yet?
<cmaloney> see above
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> brousch: If drums are delivered to Pycon I will gladly bang on them.
<brousch> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEIL-PEART-Miniature-DRUMSET-Rush-for-decoration-only-/251492338140
<cmaloney> brousch: Nice
<cmaloney> Though I think that's not his setup from that era.
<cmaloney> http://i.imgur.com/q9r3nga.jpg
<cmaloney> There's a set that I would love to play sometime.
<brousch> That's a lot of drums
<cmaloney> Yep. :)
<cmaloney> Actually, the more I look at that model I think it is closer to his setup than I remember.
<cmaloney> Though the heads aren't quite right.
<cmaloney> <- big nerd.
<cmaloney> Reminds me of someone dissing a Star Trek Miniatures game because the ships were't the right scale.
<brousch> I want video of you sitting in the hallway with posters playing those tiny drums and singing about pyohio
<cmaloney> People in hell want ice water. :)
<brousch> Incorrect. There are no people in Hell because Hell does not exist
<jrwren> F-droid?
<greg-g> jrwren: free-software only 'app store' (have we decided if that is a generic term or owned by Apple yet?)
<jrwren> so... a repository
<Haven|Work> greg-g, im impressed with the new installer 14.04 installed in about ten minutes
<brousch> jrwren: I mentioned F-Droid to you before, when you were ranting about openness on Android
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, just has it's own app that kinda acts like google play
<brousch> I'm trying to get my Kivy apps in there, but they do an automated build thing that assumes normal Android apps
<jrwren> yes, I couldn't remember if f-droid was the same as the app repo you mentioned before
<brousch> F is for Free!
<greg-g> should I capitalize the F in F-Droid, "big F Free"
<greg-g> FaiF
<jrwren> free and in freedom of speech?
<cmaloney> Free as in Freedom
<jrwren> whooo hooo! i gotta addthat story to my shitty tablet
<brousch> Google Drive section is interesting http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/769023-three-alternatives-to-ubuntu-one-cloud-service/
<jrwren> hahahahaha
<jrwren> less of this: http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/04/06/the-1-new-paid-app-in-the-play-store-costs-4-has-over-10000-downloads-a-4-7-star-rating-and-its-a-total-scam/
<jrwren> more freedom
<brousch> Damn fool users
<cmaloney> jrwren: How would you suggest they fix the store?
<jrwren> cmaloney: I was not being serious?
<cmaloney> Just checking. :)
<jrwren> interesting... awscli is python3 only in trusty - http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/admin/awscli
<jrwren> packaging your own stuff and relying on mirrors is fun. but I end up with - while ! apt-get install mynewpkg ; do sleep 60 ; apt-get update ; done
<mrgoodcat> if pip is so much better, why is easy_install still a thing?
<mrgoodcat> is there any reason at all to use easy_install over pip?
<brousch> I use easy_install to install pip
<brousch> I think easy_install can do eggs, but pip cannot
<jrwren> yup, there are reasons, but you don't need to know them until you need to know them :p
<rick_h_> jrwren: ftw
<mrgoodcat> well that's helpful
<mrgoodcat> thanks brousch
<brousch> Like Internet Explorer is only useful for downloading Chrome and viewing govt websites
<mrgoodcat> lol
<rick_h_> it'll disappear as python 3.4 has pip ootb and wheels are gaining support
<rick_h_> man, I finished up that hatching twitter book. I wasn't going to mess with it but kept hearing about it. Crazy crazy stuff
<rick_h_> anyone else read through it?
<brousch> wat?
<rick_h_> http://www.audible.com/search/ref=a_mn_at_ano_tseft__galileo/181-2313956-2499647?advsearchKeywords=hatching+twitter&sprefix=hatching
<rick_h_> crazy book
<jrwren> eggs are cool, its too bad they weren't used more.
<jrwren> I think now is a turning point in python world.
<jrwren> we will look back on the last 5 yrs as the black death time of python
<jrwren> when eggs weren't used for reasons
<jrwren> when there were many python version.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Will add it to my goodreads list.
<cmaloney> I'm up to ch. 6 of the Debt book.
<cmaloney> I really wish the library catalog had a way to save URLs.
<cmaloney> their URLs are completely non-functional out of the session.
<rick_h_> ugh
<cmaloney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7218199/
<cmaloney> Contents
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-08
<rick_h_> man, I want my screened porch for tonight
<rick_h_> sitting out with the rain falling <3
<cmaloney> rick_h_: yeah
<cmaloney> Just realized I had an album on my drive that I'm never going to listen to
<rick_h_> she's coming out with drawings and estimates tomorrow after work
 * rick_h_ gets ancy
<rick_h_> hah, save a few MB?
<cmaloney> yeah
<cmaloney> http://www.discogs.com/James-Last-Orchestra-Classics/release/2295927
<cmaloney> Not that it's horrible, but I can't take it seriously.
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO5adfLmhT4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJvegsPb9S4
<cmaloney> That the style
<cmaloney> That's
<cmaloney> Well, it looks like the newsblur dude got $24 of my dollars
<widox> cmaloney: I'll take $24
<widox> and you don't even need to fill out a form
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> g'morning
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren> mug tonight?
<rick_h_> it is tonight
<cmaloney> Yep, it's tonight
<cmaloney> I think we're going to try a Google Hangout as well, but it's better to be there in person
<cmaloney> No lg.
<cmaloney> lag.
 * ColonelPanic001 shakes fist at freenode server
<cmaloney> They're rebooting because of SSL upgrades.
<jrwren> yay SSL
<cmaloney> http://onethingwell.org/post/82086102238/shundle <- rick_h_
<rick_h_> cursed! another wine shipment when I'm gone
<rick_h_> poor timing
<rick_h_> cmaloney: heh, interestnig
<rick_h_> I missed that bash got two line shell prompts
<jrwren> you are gone?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> pycon
<rick_h_> well, will be when it arrives
<rick_h_> and wine shipments require adult sigs
<rick_h_> to deliver them or they get sent back.
<rick_h_> hah, changing the shipment address to my wife's work office
<rick_h_> surprise!
<rick_h_> no opening it before I get back!
<jrwren> oh right, pycon. duh
<jrwren> there are 3-4 arbor people there. maybe more.
<widox> rick_h_: just send it to my place, I'll be around :)
<rick_h_> widox: :P
<rick_h_> it's the good winery I joined to. Best stuff
<widox> prefect then!
<widox> I'll save the corks :-O
<widox> rick_h_: when do you leave?
<rick_h_> never, I must cancel my flight and hotel to protect my wine!
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> ;=
<cmaloney> Vampire squirrel?
<brousch> rick_h_: Did you try the swill I sent?
<rick_h_> brousch: not yet, need a good chill day to warm it up
<brousch> Yeah, just missed the winter
<cmaloney> JoDee just installed git on her laptop.
<cmaloney> I am a lucky man.
<akelling> The MUG meeting tonight?
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> see you there.
<akelling> sweet!
<cmaloney> jrwren: Awesomesauce
 * greg-g grumbles about heartbleed
<greg-g> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-ambassadors/2014-April/000666.html
<jrwren> greg-g: well played
<mathomastech> greg-g: Read about that earlier today. Just sat down to update my server. Kinda scary...
<greg-g> yep
<greg-g> luckily we have people in Australia who updated our stuff last night
<jrwren> that is nice.
<cmaloney> Evening
<Havenstance> evening cmaloney
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/events/cdief9etf9vtqdlnuh83fmplft0
<Havenstance> watching now
<greg-g> what the
<cmaloney> ?
<greg-g> wow
<greg-g> hello!
<cmaloney> Howdy!
<greg-g> delay.....
<greg-g> also, facebook?!
<Havenstance> dead?
<waf> working on it. router problems.
<Havenstance> happens :)
<mrgoodcat> hello everyone
<cmaloney> OK, router should be back
<cmaloney> Will get the hangout up in a bit.
<Havenstance> hey mrgoodcat
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: google hangout for /usr/group?
<mrgoodcat> stupid class... wish i could attend
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Yeah, the mug meeting
<cmaloney> we'll have it up online
<cmaloney> on youtube
<mrgoodcat> ko
<mrgoodcat> ok rather
<Havenstance> I wish I could actually attend one of these
<Havenstance> but living this far north its almost impossible
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: join the hangout
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, I did :)
<mrgoodcat> anybody here a fan of rails?
<Havenstance> just stating a point that I wish I could actually attned you know?
<Havenstance> I take it the meeting isn't going to be up?
<cmaloney> Havenstance: One sec.
<cmaloney> We're almost there.
<waf> we were having some "people looking for jobs" sort of thing that we don't want to broadcast :)
<Havenstance> np, didn't know if it was me or if I had the wrong URL.
<cmaloney> IS it broadcasting?
<Havenstance> it doesn't say so
<Havenstance> it said the event was over, maybe need to create a new one or something?
<cmaloney> bugger.
<cmaloney> one sec.
<cmaloney> http://youtu.be/QJ1PCMMoxi4
<Havenstance> that vid is 6:50 long
<Havenstance> cmaloney, yeah its not working man, that video shows as a 6:50 Video from just before the router died.
<tony-smlr> Looks like he just restarted the video
<tony-smlr> try again
<cmaloney> http://youtu.be/BfHj64uIhfU
<Havenstance> https://plus.google.com/events/c1umj5mauchhm74isptsc4dk130 new hangout addr
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+MugOrgPage
<cmaloney> If it craps out it should show the new event
<Havenstance> you jinxed it lol
<cmaloney> Just follow the plus page for mugorg. :)
<Havenstance> got it :) Just saying, it was working till you said it might break :D
<cmaloney> Yeah, I have that power. :)
<Havenstance> cmaloney, was it you that mentioned that facebook got around your like button block?
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> I think it was because they were using ssl
<cmaloney> which I can't filter.
<cmaloney> since it was doing packet inspection
<cmaloney> but I did change home to have a hosts file that transates Facebook to localhost
<Havenstance> lots of good information this guy is giving out
<cmaloney> yeah
<jrwren> greg-g: its a pretty sweet presentation on facebook network infrastructure
<havenstance> Yup, Very good presentation
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-09
<cmaloney> Glad you could watch it
<havenstance> me too, learned alot, not that I'd ever know how to use any of it but it was good information just the same
<tony-smlr> Cool stuf,  this is the link he was talking about when they opensource the datacenters: http://www.opencompute.org/
<cmaloney> heh
<tony-smlr> This is other open source projects they work on https://code.facebook.com/projects/
<Havenstance> I have never in my life seen such a tempermental computer
<Havenstance> tried to add a PCI Graphics Card, it fought me for a good half hour on booting afterwards. come to find out someone didn't put enough screws in this machine. So the PCI Card wasn't seating into the slot properly. Stuck up about the width of a piece of hair...
<greg-g> jrwren: sad I missed! was it recorded?
 * greg-g goes
<cmaloney> greg-g: Both Gib and waldo323 recorded it.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Apparently UPS is having "conditions [that] have caused the delivery date and time to change"
<cmaloney> Got an email that said Thursday, now Today.
<cmaloney> Was scheduled for today
<cmaloney> Wonder if one of those conditions was Amazon getting up in their business.
<rick_h_> morning ugh
<cmaloney> rick_h_: We missed you at MUG last night
<rick_h_> yea, well with a week of travel away too much to do
<cmaloney> Figured as much
<rick_h_> camper is in the driveway, designer giving us sticker shock on porch, and helping wife prep the house
<cmaloney> Sticker shock. That's always fun.
<rick_h_> heh, well I was up at one area, then she brought me down to a lower number 'estimate' and I got all happy, then went over my original idea of a number yesterday
<rick_h_> but she's just so rough on it, so now we get a real estimate and we'll see
<rick_h_> wheeeeee
<cmaloney> Nice.
<cmaloney> hoping for some good news your way.
<cmaloney> yay resetting passwords on sites!
<mrgoodcat> morning party people
<mrgoodcat> has everyone patched their openssl?
<rick_h_> why? did something happen?
<rick_h_> :P
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> i just found one more system that has an old version of ssl
<mrgoodcat> but it turns out it's too old to be vulnerable to heartbleed
<mrgoodcat> :S
<Havenstance2> mrgoodcat, the openssl is part of zentyal isn't it?
<mrgoodcat> openssl isn't a part of zentyal per-se
<mrgoodcat> why do you ask?
<mrgoodcat> if you have automatic updates set up you should be fine
<Havenstance2> just curious if i need to patch it for heartbleed :)
 * Havenstance2 remotes home & checks it out 
<Havenstance2> lol
<mrgoodcat> apt-get update && apt-get upgrade should be fine
<mrgoodcat> run the command `openssl version` on your server
<Havenstance2> I should have the new server here today too, so if I put zentyal on that should I do an apt-get updgrade?
<mrgoodcat> anything older than 1.0.1 is fine
<mrgoodcat> and anything newer than 1.0.1g is fine
<Havenstance2> 1.0.1e
<mrgoodcat> you're vulnerable
<Havenstance2> damn
<mrgoodcat> unrelated note.... cough.... what's your ip?
<Havenstance2> not sure lol
<mrgoodcat> it was a joke man
<Havenstance2> :)
<mrgoodcat> just update and you should be fine
<Havenstance2> I know
<Havenstance2> I have a VPN Tunnel I use for it
<mrgoodcat> well your VPN encryption isn't doing you any good until you update
<mrgoodcat> and you have to restart any services using it
<Havenstance2> upgrading it now :)
<mrgoodcat> probably better to just reboot the machine
<Havenstance2> sudo reboot the entire box?
<Havenstance2> that's what I was thinking
<mrgoodcat> that's what i did
<Havenstance2> now if i install a new server today is it going to have the heartbleed vulnerability?
<mrgoodcat> the company can afford 16 seconds of downtime to patch something like heartbleed
<mrgoodcat> probably not
<Havenstance2> ok
<Havenstance2> i'll double check to be safe of course
<mrgoodcat> well actually that's not accurate
<Havenstance2> it would depend if it pulled packages from the net right?
<mrgoodcat> if you install ubuntu from disc then yes you are vulnerable
<mrgoodcat> but if you pull from the net then it will update automagically
<mrgoodcat> 14.04 currently has 1.0.1f on disc
<Havenstance2> i'll still opt to run the openssl version just to be safe
<mrgoodcat> 13.10 is vuln
<jrwren> rick_h_: designer for what?
<jrwren> Havenstance2: imap ssl likely needs the heartbleed patch
<rick_h_> jrwren: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gozj35lmsfv5k8m/2014-04-09%2008.09.55.jpg
<rick_h_> jrwren: well, rotate that around
<jrwren> a barn?
<jrwren> or really just RV storage?
<rick_h_> lol
<mrgoodcat> 10.04 and older are unaffected tho
<rick_h_> no, a screned back porch
<rick_h_> jrwren: ^
<jrwren> oh. cool.
 * rick_h_ is mad he can't rotate that photo in dropbox
<mrgoodcat> download -> rotate -> upload
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: that...sounds like work
<mrgoodcat> tada
 * mrgoodcat dances
<brousch> fuckit. I'm switching back to telnet
<Havenstance2> jrwren, how do i patch that?
<jrwren> Havenstance2: update libssl1.0.0 package and restart services
<Havenstance2> jrwren, will do thank you :0
<Havenstance2> :)
<mrgoodcat> trusty RC tomorrow ;)
<mrgoodcat> er :)
<Havenstance2> so as a recap mrgoodcat openssl 0.9.8e should be secure against heartbleed?
<mrgoodcat> against heartbleed yes
<mrgoodcat> openssl heartbeat support wasn't included until the 1.0.1 series
<Havenstance2> k, this is on the current clearos network controller here which will be ultimately giving way to zentyal by this time Friday
<Havenstance2> so I won't worry about it then :)
<brousch> rick_h_: How many gsoc slots did you get?
<rick_h_> brousch: got 2
<brousch> nice!
<rick_h_> yea, we we're in business
<mrgoodcat> good for you
<mrgoodcat> any idea which students you got?
<brousch> psf got 52 slots, they were expecting 40
<mrgoodcat> psf..... python something foundation?
<mrgoodcat> software?....
<brousch> yes
<brousch> The PSF is acting as a middle man for a bunch of Python GSoC projects
<mrgoodcat> just found the motherlode
<mrgoodcat> https://github.com/vhf/free-programming-books
<cmaloney> I really hate mysql's 'username'@'localhost' user format
<mrgoodcat> why?
<cmaloney> it's stupid? :)
<mrgoodcat> can't say it's ever bothered me
<mrgoodcat> maybe i'm just used to it
<cmaloney> I don't like having to create two users
<mrgoodcat> one for localhost one for remote connections?
<cmaloney> yes
<cmaloney> It's a use-case that I've rarely seen be useful
<cmaloney> (the host-limited connection limited by the database)
<mrgoodcat> yea i got that
<mrgoodcat> there isn't a way to make one user available to all hosts?
<mrgoodcat> try 0.0.0.0
<cmaloney> There's %, but I believe Mysql treats that differently than localhost
<mrgoodcat> yup
<mrgoodcat> that's remote
<cmaloney> which is stupid.
<mrgoodcat> it's supposed to be a 'security' feature i think
<cmaloney> Understood. I think it misses the mark
<mrgoodcat> you could run mysql on a non-standard port then ssh tunnel to localhost so all remote connections show up as local...
<mrgoodcat> that would be damn hacky tho
<cmaloney> Or I could put up a firewall rule to do what MySQL is ill-equipped to handle.
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> anywho, ranting
<cmaloney> I'd rather be PostgreSQL.
<mrgoodcat> i'd rather be someone using PostgreSQL
<mrgoodcat> being a database seems like a lot of work
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I think someone out there is wrong on the internet. better go investigate.
<cmaloney> ;)
<mrgoodcat> apparently % works on localhost as well as remote
<mrgoodcat> if you have 2 users it will default to the @localhost user if you connect from local
<mrgoodcat> but it isn't specifically required
<mrgoodcat> on some systems there is a field in mysql.users where user is blank but host is localhost
<mrgoodcat> and this makes it so % can only connect from remote
<mrgoodcat> drop user ''@'localhost';
<mrgoodcat> flush priveleges;
<mrgoodcat> unless you WANT the anonymous user
<cmaloney> Hmm.
<cmaloney> Will have to lok into this further
<cmaloney> but for now I have what I need.
<cmaloney> Thanks!
<mrgoodcat> np
<mrgoodcat> i haven't tested it but the internet assures me it doesn't ever lie
<cmaloney> heh
<nullspace> sup all
<mrgoodcat> hi
<cmaloney> Howdy nullspace
<mrgoodcat> chc @ 8 tonight?
<mrgoodcat> for some reason my phone says 9pm
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's tonight
<cmaloney> DST? :)
<mrgoodcat> but 8:00 right?
<mrgoodcat> i think it's been wrong in my phone since the beginning
<Havenstance2> YAWN :(
<Havenstance2> winautomation is the antichrist
<mrgoodcat> win* is the antichrist
<Havenstance2> Microsoft = Antichrist
<Havenstance2> :)
<jrwren> hardly.
<jrwren> google or apple are far more scary
<rick_h_> crap did dropbox just take over techcrunch?
<jrwren> they had some big announce today. I don't know what it was.
<rick_h_> had a few of them it looks like
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: where did you see that?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: techcrunch, they released a mail client, a photo app, and some business apps
<rick_h_> trying out their mail client on the phone atm
<rick_h_> kind of cool
<brousch> dropbox mail client?
<mrgoodcat> what makes you think they took over techcrunch from that?
<mrgoodcat> oh wait
<mrgoodcat> i get it
<mrgoodcat> it was a joke
<mrgoodcat> holy crap
<mrgoodcat> ignore me
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: because my rss feed was 6 dropbox things in a row
<rick_h_> from techcrunch
<mrgoodcat> yup
<mrgoodcat> i get it now
<rick_h_> :)
<mrgoodcat> jeebus i feel slow
<rick_h_> he's not as crazy as he seems sometimes...but only sometimes
<mrgoodcat> is the mail client good?
<rick_h_> it's cool, different with the swipy-ness
<rick_h_> like the idea of built in snooze
<rick_h_> snoozing all my pycon trip emails until tomorrow
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: how did you download the mail client
<mrgoodcat> i can't get it
<mrgoodcat> did you just get it from google play?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: from play store
<mrgoodcat> i can't seem to find it
<mrgoodcat> even on a computer
<rick_h_> I went from the techcrunch article to the dropbox app website to the play store to sending it to my phone
<mrgoodcat> the play store link is broken for me
<mrgoodcat> got it
<mrgoodcat> for some reason the play store doesn't play nice with the google-chrome unstable
<rick_h_> :) it's what I'm on
<rick_h_> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mailboxapp
<mrgoodcat> worked fine with firefox
<greg-g> also https://twitter.com/trevortimm/status/453987795770834944
<brousch> Carousel seems the most useful, but I'm still skeptical of its longevity due to being closed source
<brousch> Is Mediagoblin stable now?
<rick_h_> yea, and it doesn't have edit/etc
<greg-g> brousch: ish?
<greg-g> re mediagoblin
<greg-g> if you're comfortable getting dirty with deploying python webapps
<brousch> depends on how dirty
<greg-g> still not packaged in debian :/
<greg-g> venv and all that
<brousch> It's based on their own python web framework
<rick_h_> I thought it was django based?
<brousch> No, it is django-like
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> double ugh
<brousch> I've contributed to 2 rounds of their fundraisers
<Havenstance_> spock@spock-ubuntu:~$ openssl version
<Havenstance_> OpenSSL 1.0.1 14 Mar 2012
<Havenstance_> Isn't this part of the Heart Bleed Bug?
<Havenstance_> should prollie ask this in #xubuntu sry
<Havenstance_> mrgoodcat, whoever thought up the samba module in Zentyal is my hero. Just added another storage disk. had to reboot gparted the drive, configured Fstab, mounted it, and its sharing on the network. took less then 5 minutes :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-10
<jrwren> Havenstance_: yes, looks like it.
<Havenstance_> jrwren, that was a virtual machine running it. I just shut it off.
<jrwren> Havenstance_: bummer that you had to reboot. I went from 4TB to 12TB (adding 2 - 4TB drives) without a reboot
<Havenstance_> jrwren, I rebooted cuz the mobo was too old to support hot swap :)
<Havenstance_> at home I use a bunch of old stuff that i've thrown together
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance_: if you want to check if you are vuln to the heartbleed to `openssl version -a` and check your build date
<mrgoodcat> should be built in the last 2 days
<Havenstance_> okay
<Havenstance_> yeah those in #xubuntu were rather rude and unhelpful about it
<Havenstance_> mon apr 7 :) should be good, ty man
<cmaloney> http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/superdirt-algoriddims
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat:
<jrwren> Havenstance_: dpkg -p libssl1.0.0
<jrwren> the Version field there should be newer than what is listed on this page: http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2165-1/
<Havenstance_> jrwren, thanks for the info man :)
<Havenstance_> I just built this install from USB like 2 days ago
<Havenstance_> idk if that matters but not really worried about it, i'll be upgrading to 14.04 lts soon as it goes live
<mrgoodcat> upgrade tomorrow
<mrgoodcat> final beta
<mrgoodcat> and the tubes will be faster
<jrwren> it matters :)
<jrwren> upgrade now. help test the betas.
<Havenstance_> sadly enough, this hardware won't run 14.04 yet I tried a daily build the other day
<Havenstance_> it died
<cmaloney> http://www.lordi.fi/
<jrwren> am tip:  echo BYOBU_PYTHON=python >> .byoburc   to prevent byobu from running python -c 'import snack' EVERY time it refreshes status line
<cmaloney> jrwren: I stopped using byobu in favor of tmux
<cmaloney> https://github.com/paultag/hy
<cmaloney> https://github.com/hylang/hy/blob/master/hy/importer.py
<jrwren> i use byobu-tmux
<jrwren> i am a sucker for status line
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: http://openmetalcast.com
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> holy shit, this wikipedian died this weekend in a climbing accident, this is her last edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Peer_review/Bringing_Up_Baby/archive2&diff=prev&oldid=601663764
<greg-g> so sad.
<cmaloney> :(
<cmaloney> Always sad to hear someone pass away
<Havenstance> is there a list of sites somewhere that were hit by heartbleed?
<Havenstance> I keep getting questions on this because our local news channel just picked this up this morning
<brousch> All of them
<Havenstance> brousch, that's kind of what I was leaning towards.
<Havenstance> because even if the site in question doesn't use openSSL that doesn't mean that the DNS Server or something else wouldn't be using it potentially exposing passwords
<jrwren> DNS Server or something else?
<Havenstance> I know our network server has openssl 1.0.1d or something crazy like that on it.
<Havenstance> jrwren, gateways, hosts, datacenters. all the information goes thru them first does it not?
<jrwren> umm... yes?
<jrwren> well, not "hosts"
<jrwren> everything is a "host"
<Havenstance> or am i understanding this wrong
<jrwren> it sounds like you are understanding this wrong.
<jrwren> all information definitely does not go to a dns server.
<jrwren> this isn't a packet sniffing vulnerability either, so just becuase https traffic traverses a gateway, does not make it inspectable
<Havenstance> okay so the purpose of open ssl is you call out thru the DNS Server gateway all that jazz, then establish a secure connection with that site alone
<jrwren> "call out thru teh dns server" does nto makes sense.
<Havenstance> but if the site you are calling out to is vulnerable then your secure connection is compromised. DNS, Gateway, and anything in between no longer matter after the secure connection is made with the website no?
<jrwren> I can't understand what you are saying. You aren't using the common words used to describe network connections and sessions.
<Havenstance> I havent even finished my first cup of coffee cut me some slack :D not fully awake yet :)
<jrwren> hahah! me too.
<Havenstance> what im asking is when you establish a secure connection, does it still call for DNS Translation after the connection is established? My understanding of OpenSSL is about zero to be honest
<jrwren> after? no.
<Havenstance> Case in point, My network configuration here, I have the client machines, who route through the server, the server hosts DHCP, DNS, and a VPN Tunnel, Then I route to a router which does essentially the same thing as the server except its DNS calls to my ISP's DNS Server, from there its handed to my ISP and they route the traffic through the closest datacenters and on to the destination
<Havenstance> if there's a breach at any point in between isn't there a problem?
<jrwren> define "breach"
<Havenstance> breach being a heartbleed vulnerability
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> then no, no problem.
<Havenstance> okay, because my system actually establishes a SSL connection with the destination not the points in between
<jrwren> right
<Havenstance> perfect, I understood it right, I just couldn't explain it to save my ass this morning lol
<Havenstance> btw, list of sites here https://github.com/musalbas/heartbleed-masstest/blob/master/top1000.txt
<Havenstance> shows some vulnerable, some not vulnerable and some not using SSL
<Havenstance> incase you get bombarded with questions about this over your office coffee pot this morning too
<rick_h_> party party here come pycon!
<jrwren> yay!
<cmaloney> Woo woo
<greg-g> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/04/10/wikimedias-response-to-the-heartbleed-security-vulnerability/
<brousch> http://pyjvm.org/
<jrwren> different from jython?
<jrwren> OH GOD!
<jrwren> brousch: why?!?!   why!!?!?
<brousch> I don't know, but I wanted to share the wonder with you all
<brousch> jython on pyjvm would be awesome
<jrwren> pyjvm on jython on pyjvm
<brousch> Can we run pyjvm on pypy?
<jrwren> probably
<mrgoodcat> hahahahahhaa
<mrgoodcat> i wonder what posessed them to make that
<jrwren> python + json + performance => terrible terrible terrible
<rick_h_> jrwren: there's json libs that use c-helpers to go faster
<rick_h_> actually thought the built in json did now :/
<cmaloney> lo
<jrwren> rick_h_: they suck.
<jrwren> its like whoever wrote json and simplejson weren't python programmers and weren't C or Java programmers either.
<jrwren> I'm pretty sure with a minor incision, I can make it much faster for my meniacle use case.
<Havenstance_> ...
<Havenstance_> so I get home, old lady packed up the house, she gone...
<gamerchick02> whoa really? :(
<jrwren> i got simplejson to do what I want. it ain't pretty.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-11
<jrwren> i've analysis paralysis
<jrwren> i just noticed the CCAL on this pub: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0094215
<jrwren> YAY!!!
<cmaloney> Howdy
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, do you know if I could install zentyal over say xubuntu server?
<jrwren> https://twitter.com/day9tv/status/454512579570716672
<jrwren> wow, no idea how THAT copied.
<jrwren> i meants: https://twitter.com/flowchainsensei/status/454510645548154880
<Havenstance> so many rednecks here
<Havenstance> one conversation about the government, next conversation about some lady bringing a baby to a bar, last conversation the methods of brewing beer vs making moonshine
<Havenstance> God I love my job :)
<Havenstance> jrwren, the graphic is hilarious
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: i'm confused by what you mean
<mrgoodcat> xubuntu server is an oxymoron
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, yeah I just want the xubuntu gui instead of the lubuntu gui with zentyal. the lubuntu one is always broken no matter how many times I try to use it. Fileman doesn't work and a few other minor annoyances. Things that wouldn't bother me but I know will drive my boss looney
<mrgoodcat> hmm
<mrgoodcat> i guess i've never used any sort of GUI with zentyal except for the web based so....
<mrgoodcat> idk
<Havenstance> This new server is quick as hell
<Havenstance> Newegg gave us a free upgrade from the 6 core vishera to the 8 core because they were out of the 6
<brousch> That could be a problem for people who use software licensed by the # of cores
<Havenstance> yeah but honestly shouldn't matter much for this rig
<Havenstance> he WAY overbuilt for a network controller
<Havenstance> xD
<mrgoodcat> lol brousch this isn't microsoft
<brousch> mrgoodcat: I know, but that upgrade would actual screw some people
<mrgoodcat> yea
<mrgoodcat> have you read Havenstance's chat logs though?
<mrgoodcat> i wouldn't worry too much about things like "licensing" or "legality"
<mrgoodcat> they're all just words
<jrwren> Havenstance: just apt-get remove the xfce packages and apt-get install lxde
<jrwren> if you want to get really crazy you can lookup the package list and make sure you add/remove all the right ones.
<brousch> ug, yeah, removing xfce/gnome/kde from ubuntu is hard
<brousch> even if you remove all xfce* there are still some lingering things
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, yeah I tend to not worry too much about licensing :) if it were windows I might worry
<brousch> That is a bad choice
 * brousch dials up the BSA
<jrwren> what?!?!
<jrwren> its not hard at all.
 * ColonelPanic001 is an Eagle Scout
<ColonelPanic001> brousch: you called?
<brousch> heh
<jrwren> https://twitter.com/jakevdp/status/454305129299079169  & https://twitter.com/jegpeek/status/454307408551374848
<brousch> nice
<jrwren> re: this week MUG meeting, what is Marlon's last name?
<cmaloney> Dutta
<cmaloney> (I blieve)
<nullspace> jrwren: I'm waiting on my perl 6 shirt
<jrwren> nullspace: ha!
<nullspace> I wonder how many grones or blank stares I'd get if I wore a Java 8 shirt to PyCon
<jrwren> hahahaha
<jrwren> did you see pyjvm brousch linked yesterday?
<nullspace> I just threw up in my mouth a little
<jrwren> hahahaha
<jrwren> you are overly sensitive. :p
<nullspace> though I'm curious how they did it, did they read Java byte code and reinterperit it or is it just a joke?
<nullspace> becuase this one, https://github.com/mrorii/pyjvm looks like a joke
<jrwren> why is that a joke?
<nullspace> it doesn't look like it does anything, I'm not a python coder so maybe I'm missing something
<jrwren> the guts are here: https://github.com/mrorii/pyjvm/blob/master/pyjvm/method.py
<jrwren> it looks like maybe it runs a trivial example
<jrwren> beyond that, it looks VERY incomplete
<nullspace> yeah I just saw that one and the opt codes
<nullspace> first file I looked at was Thread and I frowned
<jrwren> same here
<Havenstance> if i encrypt a folder on my 2.5tb md raid does that folder have to have a defined filesize? or could I just use truecrypt and decrypt it to share at boot up?
<Havenstance> bad explanation
<Havenstance> I want to create a folder within my raid device which is unencrypted currently, I want to encrypt only that folder and share it over my network. Basically ensuring that all data within the folder is encrypted but the rest of the drive is not
<Havenstance> to do this do I need to define a size that the particular folder in question can grow to, or will it just grow to the size of the raid
<jrwren> i don't know of any filesystems which support encryption on a folder by folder basis other than NTFS on Windows.
<Havenstance> true crypt claims to do it on ext4... whether it works or not I'll find out but just don't want to encrypt the whole drive
<Havenstance> but rather like /media/storage for instance
<Havenstance> Creates a virtual encrypted disk within a file and mounts it as a real disk.
<Havenstance> suppose i'll just fly blind into it :) if it works cool, if I break something at least I have a computer fast enough to reinstall without a problem :D
<Havenstance> just some reason I can't get the partitioner in the installer to work with encryption I have broke that like 7 times now lol
<nullspace> I think you need to declare the max size of the encrypted container upfront.
<jrwren> truecrypt uses a loopback file, AFAIK.
<Havenstance> not really sure how it works but I'm all for playing with it
<jrwren> so you would preallocate a file, potentially sparse, mount it to the folder you want, and move on
<Havenstance> its gonna be a samba share, that's the onlyl reason I want it encrypted
<Havenstance> but for some reason when I had my raid set with 4 devices, I had 1 swap, 1 boot, 1/home and 1 large storage part when i installed it failed to install grub
<nullspace> oh your trying to setup encryption at install?
<nullspace> I'd just get the system up and running first then deal with encryption setup
<Havenstance> not anymore, I gave up that idea
<Havenstance> nullspace, exactly what I'm doing now
<Havenstance> the way I wanted was the whole disk running in Raid, with one part for swap, one part for boot, one part for root, and one part for storage but it didn't like that configuration when it came time to install grub cuz I created separate raid1 devices for all 4 mount points.
<nullspace> so yeah just setup your encrypted file and write a script that runs teh decryption commands and handles the mounting but obviously ommiting the passphrase,
<Havenstance> well the passphrase would be stored on a usb key was the intention. you put in a usb key hit the script and it finds that file on that key and it decrypts the drive. fo some reason my boss is stuck on not having to enter a password even though its probably the safest encryption method out there
<nullspace> could make it even easier and write  udev rule for when that usb key is plugged in to run the script on the drive. But yeah if that usb drive dies your hosed unless you know the passphrase
<Havenstance> someone said that you could do the usb drive by label, so tat you could have 2 or 3 copies of it?
<Havenstance> don't know how that would work though
<nullspace> by label?
<nullspace> you mean uuid?
<Havenstance> like label the device "Thumb" and when it sees a USB Key with the name of Thumb it searches for the file if it finds it then the partition is unlocked
<Havenstance> if it doesn't find it then it locks the part down
<nullspace> that sounds like a bad idea
<Havenstance> i agree
<Havenstance> my idea of encryption is you use a password that only you know
<Havenstance> with lots of letters numbers and pretty little @ symbols and stuff....
<Havenstance> and you enter it every time you boot your machine because that's the best way to do it. but he's set on if he's not here and I'm not here someone in the store has to be able to boot this thing
<Havenstance> now keep in mind all of this security is for a damn true value hardware store
<cmaloney> afternoon
<jrwren> anyone every use iptables match-set ?  it seems to not be matching for me.
<jrwren> ah, src,dst is and not or.  ipset works
<Havenstance> I think I found my problem getting GRUB to install
<Havenstance> I turned the bootable flag on for my partitions I wanted it in. but didn't specifically define a /boot location
<Havenstance> 5th time the charm maybe?
<cmaloney> heh
<Havenstance> i suppose that's what happens when you have a linux n00b configure your server
<mrgoodcat>  hey quick python question: if i want a function to always run in its own thread, is there a way to do that?
<mrgoodcat> or do i have to have a function inside the function that i call using start_new_thread?
<mrgoodcat> this is what i'm currently doing http://hastebin.com/pafiwosowi.py
<Havenstance> hm, after some reasearch it appears what I was experiencing is part of a bug filed with ubuntu regarding grub2
<Havenstance> looks as though starting all the partitions at the beginning of the free space was causing trouble as it reserves 63 sectors however grub2 requires 64 secotrs. I put in a 40gb hdd to hold the FS and grub & all that jazz and raided the 2.0tb drives. should show up better anyway. not sure how well its going to work if at all but hopefully
<brousch> mrgoodcat: You could http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14234547/threads-with-decorators
<mrgoodcat> brousch: pretty much what i ended up with
<mrgoodcat> based on a suggestion from another channel
<mrgoodcat> but thanks
<Havenstance> if anyone has a nvidia GPU and runs windows 8.1 don't think about updating to the new beta driver....
<Havenstance> it just broke my machine hard....
 * Havenstance now has a broken window :( o well time to put ubuntu on it <3
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-12
<mathomastech> Anyone use QT for crossplatform development? I'm seeing weird GUI rendering on Windows. The spacing and sizing is all off. http://plus.google.com/+MarcThomas/posts/ZanrVWuq39U
<Havenstance> mathomastech, what's this program do? it looks interesting to say the least
<mathomastech> Havenstance: Its essentially a group chat application for a gaming community I am part of.
<Havenstance> mathomastech, I have no coding experience but a friend of mine does, he was trying to write a universal teamspeak mysql db editor as well
<Havenstance> not sure how he got it to work tbh but i'll ask him
<Havenstance> him and I run gaming communities as well, he's in FL and I live up in Northern Michigan by Cadillac
<mathomastech> Havenstance: Cool. What community? Maybe we've crossed paths at some point in game.
<Havenstance> I run Spock Clan, sort of a trekkie lol
<mathomastech> Havenstance: Haven't run into you guys as far as I know.
<Havenstance> what community you a part of?
<mathomastech> Hellbound Soldiers, or HBS
<Havenstance> hm, can't recall but i'll look into it. right now my clan is pretty well dying off.
<Havenstance> would be going stronger if I had time to put into it
<mathomastech> Yea, it can be rough getting it off the ground. HBS was been around for over 10 years. I joined about 1 1/2 years ago. I'm currently in the third level of Command so I oversee all the different games we support. Part of that means mainting all the servers, applying plugins and updates, etc. It's pretty fun. This is more of a side project for them. Planning on releasing the beta tonight except I have to
<mathomastech> get the windows app looking good first.
<Havenstance> I'd have to see it actually run on windows to know what you mean. cuz in the picture it looks like how windows normally is
<Havenstance> except I can't blow the picture up
<Havenstance> this box only has 1024x768 resolution and its ubuntu :)
<mathomastech> Ahh. Basically different widgets have boarders (though they shouln't). The spacing of different widgets in relation to others is different. The size of widgets also are skewed.
<mathomastech> I am thinking I might just have to create a seperate UI file for windows. It's just going to suck to have to maintain 2 different versions on the same thing.
<Havenstance> you could write both for windows and linux
<Havenstance> use linux version with mscorefonts
<Havenstance> idk how well it will work but its worth a shot. might even try one of the universal languages, I don't know much about writing code at all
<mathomastech> Worth taking a look at. I just created a seperate set of GUI files specifically for windows. All the functionality is idential, just the sizing and spacing is a bit different in order to accomodate properly. Until I find a better solution I'll just have to do this.
<cmaloney> evening
<mathomastech> cmaloney: Evening. How's pycon?
<jrwren> zomg, did you know today is the day marty goes forward into time in back to the future 2?
<jrwren> today and everday for the past 10 yrs.
<mathomastech> I still need to watch that movie
<cmaloney> Wow
<cmaloney> Hello everyone
<cmaloney> Pycon is awesome
<cmaloney> It's really cool to put faces to folks that have been so amazing.
<gamerchick02> how is it that i never make it out of microcenter spending less than $100?
<cmaloney> i wish i knew
<gamerchick02> i dropped off my macbook (let's try again!) for recall repair and made the mistake of walking around
<gamerchick02> got a nonbacklit ducky w/reds for work and a mic for WoW so i can use my comfy Sony cans
 * gamerchick02 waves at widox
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-13
 * Havenstance kicks net.split
<Havenstance> hey ya'll :)
<gamerchick02> howdy havenstance
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> hello from frenchy land
<jrwren> yay!
<jrwren> how is it?
<rick_h_> it's cool, conf is all done and sprints start tomorrow
<rick_h_> good time, I think I went to 4 or 5 talks, but crazy awesome hallway track and such
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-06
<jrwren> good evening
<gamerchick02> howdy jrwren
<jrwren> good weekend!!!
<gamerchick02> yes!
<gamerchick02> relaxing.
<jrwren> Polt won Sc2 Season1 2015 and umich came in 2nd at regionals, which I attended \m/
<gamerchick02> coolQ
<gamerchick02> ! not Q
<gamerchick02> hah
<jrwren> and I was at least 24hrs without my laptop and I didn't twitch from withdrawl :p
<gamerchick02> have you tried out a pebble?
<jrwren> nope
<gamerchick02> lol, i'll be a week away from my computer in June and i'll be fine
<jrwren> other folks here love theirs. My wrist is anchor free.
<gamerchick02> well, i'm thinking about a Pebble Time. new and in color!
<gamerchick02> i have a watch. but it's a Timex. :-P
<gamerchick02> and the cool thing about a Pebble Time is that it's supposed to last 7 days on one charge
<jrwren> timex is sweet.
<gamerchick02> it was $20.
<gamerchick02> just a basic one with the date and a indiglo light
<jrwren> my daughter wears a timex that was my bday present when I turned 5. that was 33yrs ago
<gamerchick02> nice
<jrwren> oh, I forgot I wore an indiglo for a few years I really like that watch.
<cmaloney> I <3 my Pebble
<gamerchick02> howdy cmaloney. i was wondering if you had a pebble or a google wear
<cmaloney> picked up the Pebble Time when JoDee asked if we were getting htem.
<cmaloney> Pebble
<gamerchick02> i want a pebble time i think
<cmaloney> But I tend to be a little behind the curve
<gamerchick02> that's ok
 * cmaloney has been playing with a lot of emulators lately
<gamerchick02> you're talking to someone who has a Samsung Galaxy S3
<cmaloney> <3 the Spectrum machine
<gamerchick02> :)
<cmaloney> Samsung S2 Epic 4G touch. :)
<gamerchick02> OMG this lady is having twins; the first was stillborn
<jrwren> isn't a galaxy s3 from about 4yrs ago?
<gamerchick02> yes, i am watching Call the Midwife
<gamerchick02> 3 years ago i think
<gamerchick02> it runs kitkat!
<cmaloney> It's newer than my phone. :)
<jrwren> that makes me want more downton abbey
<gamerchick02> there is only one more series of Downton
<jrwren> i know. so sad and yet so good.
<cmaloney> Thank Christ.
<gamerchick02> you don't like Downton, cmaloney?
<cmaloney> No, I'm saying they'll start losing the plot if it keeps going
<gamerchick02> YAY a live baby!
<gamerchick02> true
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> i'm always happy when shows end before rather than after their time.
<gamerchick02> yes!
<cmaloney> See: Big Bang Theory
<gamerchick02> oi
<cmaloney> should have ended a while ago but that horse just keeps on whipping
<gamerchick02> should have died awhile ago? i'm not a huge fan of that show
<gamerchick02> i've watch bits and bobs
<gamerchick02> for geek culture, The IT Crowd is much better
<jrwren> big bang theory should have died aftr first episode.
<cmaloney> jrwren: *cough*
<jrwren> bbt laughs AT nerds, not WITH nerds.
<cmaloney> JoDee watches it. I think it's a bingo-machine of nerd tropes.
<gamerchick02> so true
<gamerchick02> so so true
<gamerchick02> again, The IT Crowd is very funny, if very British.
<gamerchick02> if you like that, then it's awesome.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I <3 IT Crowd
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> now it's Selfridge. bleh
<gamerchick02> i wish Wolf Hall was on at 9
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
<cmaloney> Anywho, we can start the meeting
<cmaloney> which I'm sure everyone was waiting to start.
<gamerchick02> i guess. :-P i was watching Call the Midwife. was a good episode
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/914/detail/
<cmaloney> That's the agenda for this meeting
<cmaloney> which will be quite brief. :)
<gamerchick02> i have something that's come up so i can't come. i'm super bummed that i can't come. :(
<cmaloney> We have our release party on Friday at Penguicon
<cmaloney> bmmer indeed.
<cmaloney> Believe it's at 8pm
<gamerchick02> nice
<cmaloney> We'll be in the bar again par usual
<gamerchick02> nice.
<cmaloney> I doubt we'll have CDs and what-not to give away
<cmaloney> Will have to check to see
<gamerchick02> no swag? though most people just... download it.
<gamerchick02> hah
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's pretty much why folks show up
<cmaloney> swag and booze
<cmaloney> Oh, and to hang out with folks
<gamerchick02> :)
<cmaloney> But yeah, that's the plan for this time around
<cmaloney> if someone wants to schedule another release party outside of the Penguicon one please feel free.
<gamerchick02> any ideas for a more northerly one?
<cmaloney> I think it's a great idea.
<cmaloney> If that's what you're looking for. :)
<gamerchick02> well, i'm not sure. suddenly a lot of crap has popped up for this month for me.
<cmaloney> Right, but if someone wants to organize a more northerly Michigan event I'm all for that.
<gamerchick02> yes!
<gamerchick02> i'm surprised there's not a community around more universities
<cmaloney> Yeah, not sure why that is
<gamerchick02> Kettering didn't have a linux club.
<cmaloney> I know we get at least someone from time to time looking for something not in the Detroit area
<waldo323> Sorry I'm late :-/ didn't realize it was 9 already
<gamerchick02> well there's a bunch of people in the Grand Rapids area, i do believe. but not many in Mid-MI or Flint or even northern MI.
<gamerchick02> hi waldo323
<waldo323> Hi gamerchick02
<cmaloney> waldo323: No worries. :)
<cmaloney> Not a whole lot going on that you weren't aware of
<cmaloney> Anywho, that's all that I have at the moment
<gamerchick02> nice
<cmaloney> Thank you everyone for coming out!
<gamerchick02> you're welcome!
<gamerchick02> i have a question: what is your favorite thing about your Pebble?
<waldo323> Thank you for hosting
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Battery life, and doesn't over-promise.
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> what do you think of the new Pebble Time? color screen and stuff?
<cmaloney> Haven't received it yet.
<cmaloney> Kickstarter just finished
<gamerchick02> you ordered one? sa-wheet
<cmaloney> Yep
<gamerchick02> please send some impressions to g+ or your blog after you have it for awhile
<gamerchick02> i'm seriously thinking of getting one when it hits stores/the web.
<gamerchick02> i missed the kickstarter. :( but i've been looking at a smartwatch and i think the Time will hit all the things i need.
<cmaloney> Will do
<gamerchick02> thanks
<gamerchick02> are you getting the Steel or the regular Time?
<cmaloney> Regular
<gamerchick02> ok cool
<gamerchick02> i think i'll get one when it comes out to stores. i'd like to see how large it would be on my wrist
<cmaloney> Well, I have the Steel and the original Pebble. They're not small. :)
<gamerchick02> ok
<gamerchick02> smaller than the Wear ones, maybe?
<gamerchick02> that's why i want to see it in the store. when it comes to best buy or something i'll see if fits my wrist
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> Apparently I'm the only person in the office that doesn't own anything Tigers related
<cmaloney> Or at least didn't wear anything Tigers related.
<rick_h_> well if I was there I'd have joined you
<cmaloney> (I still have a rather faded button from 1984 World Series)
<cmaloney> Yeah, not into supporting pro sportball. :)
<cmaloney> Now, if it were "dress like your favorite video game character" I'd be all over that.
<jrwren> oh right, opening day. go tigers.
<rick_h_> seems odd for opening day when I saw snow falling yesterday
<cmaloney> Yeah, well... Welcome to Michigan.
<derekv> yay my bouncer
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/04/new-york-woman-can-send-divorce-papers-via-facebook/
<cmaloney> Welcome to the future
<derekv> served and witnessed
<cmaloney> the fun bits are in the details.
<derekv> one more reason to kill your facebook
<cmaloney> I'd love to know how one divorces someone who disappears
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-07
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> morn
<ColonelPanic001> ing
<_stink_> si
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<rick_h_> will let you know in an hour
<rick_h_> meeting time
<cmaloney> Woo woo
<ibouvousaime> hello guys I'm trying to use a nvidia card with blender but blender doesnt seem to see it I get his log when I'm trying to see if the gpu is active http://ur1.ca/k4jsr my driver info is http://ur1.ca/k4jto  I already have the nvidia seting manager installed and have libcuda1-346 installed
<cmaloney> ibouvousaime: I'd check to see if the card is still supported
<ibouvousaime> Okay cmaloney
<ibouvousaime> so cmaloney is it supported ? sorry my internet went down for a moment
<ibouvousaime> ohh xD
<ibouvousaime> nvm
<ibouvousaime> misread what you said
<greg-g> welp, neighbor kids are over, time to be done with work I guess :)
<greg-g> 3 boys between 3 and 6... :)
<_stink_> batten down the hatches
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-08
<snypz> hello all
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I see you found your dream-keyboard
<SneakyPhil> good morning
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :) and going to try the greens
<cmaloney> Y'know, if I could figure out how to get mutt to display images for rss feeds I'd be happier
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Really? I'd like to give them a quick test as well
<rick_h_> we'll see then when this thing massdrops :)
<cmaloney> I'd love to get my hands on some clears to try out
<rick_h_> I wanted to try something firmer than the blues
<rick_h_> quiet mechanical keyboard fml :P
<cmaloney> Oh, those are clacky?
<cmaloney> Right, greens are clacky.
<cmaloney> n/m. :)
<cmaloney> Seriously though, if mutt had better image support I think I'd ditch Thunderbird entirely.
<SneakyPhil> would something like this work? https://cuasan.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/viewing-images-with-mutt-on-ubuntu-via-mailcap-configuration/
<cmaloney> Hm, that's interesting. :)
<cmaloney> Was hoping for something more like w3m handing the images
<cmaloney> since it does that pretty brilliantly.
<SneakyPhil> boom http://paul.kuntke.de/blog/2012/07/16/view-images-in-mutt/
<cmaloney> Thanks. Unfortunately I thinkn there's something hinky in my mutt config.
<derekv> how in the world can you still use mutt?
<derekv> i had to give up like 10 years ago since everyone was sending me html
<greg-g> every mail client sucks, it just sucks the least
<greg-g> I use mutt for all work and personal email
<derekv> eh, i'd say it was the best
<derekv> but i couldn't get it wired up to handle html in any reasonable way
<greg-g> derekv: read the tagline that I misquoted: http://www.mutt.org/  ;)
<cmaloney> derekv: I like it because it gets me in and out of mail quicker than thunderbird
<cmaloney> I can focus
<greg-g> taht
<cmaloney> The only problem is I use rss2email for feeds
<cmaloney> and opening a browser for comics is a royal PITA
<greg-g> so, lack of focus :)
<greg-g> oh
<derekv> yea i'm totally in agreement... nvm i'll ask later
<derekv> gtg
<cmaloney> I mean it's kind of an edge-case
<cmaloney> and frankly it's not a deal-breaker but it's my biggest nice-to-have
<cmaloney> And yes, I could use [rss-feeder-of-choice] instead
<cmaloney> but rss2email really fits my workflow
<mrgoodcat> any dwm users here?
<rick_h_> nope, awesomeWM
<cscheib> xfce
<cmaloney> Unity. :)
<cscheib> ugh.
<cscheib> oops, did I say that out loud?
<greg-g> gnome-shell!
<SneakyPhil> gui? doesn't that make things all sticky
<mrgoodcat> well i guess my question isn't really dwm specific anyways. i'm trying to get the volume of hw:0,0 in c. for some reason i keep getting 87...
<mrgoodcat> ah nevermind i got it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-09
<gamerchick02> hello party people
<rick_h_> party
<gamerchick02> how's CHC? i cleaned and called my mom and now i'm watching Nature.
<gamerchick02> also i'm tired right now too so going out is like not going to work for me (work's been taking whatever energy i have and sucking it out of me :( )
<cmaloney> CHC is going we..
<cmaloney> well, even
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<SneakyPhil> good morning
<SneakyPhil> I have a question not specifically about linux, but dealing with people
<SneakyPhil> Throughout my env I have been using saltstack for config management etc for months now
<SneakyPhil> the other week the IT director decided that we need to jump onto the chef wagon because another company we work with uses it
<SneakyPhil> Has anyone ever needed to rip out something that has been working well to replace it with esssentially the same thing?
<cmaloney> Have you played with Chef at all?
<SneakyPhil> I have been, yes. To me it's not as good feeling as writing salt states
<cmaloney> But to answer your question: Yep, been there multiple times
<cmaloney> What's your relationship with the IT director?
<SneakyPhil> "sneakyphil is the guy who does the linux things and plays jesus for me"
<SneakyPhil> my developers have taken saltstack upon themselves for their own projects even
<cmaloney> Then you need to talk
<cmaloney> show him what the differences are and why Chef might not fit
<cmaloney> Have an adult conversation about it. :)
<SneakyPhil> heh
<SneakyPhil> thank you
<SneakyPhil> to powerpoint
 * SneakyPhil away
<cmaloney> Well, you don't necessarily need powerpoint
<cmaloney> just a simple "here's what we're currently doin,g and here's why Chef might not be a good fit"
<rick_h_> jcastro: hah love http://www.jorgecastro.org/2015/04/09/keeping-your-options-open
<jcastro> :D
<cmaloney> jcastro: Nice.
<cmaloney> I'm continually amazed that HP is a footnote in cloud
<cmaloney> I hear more about Microsoft cloud services than HP
<jrwren> cmaloney: might appreciate this
<jrwren> Armageddon Dildos into Rachmaninov
<cmaloney> on orders of magnatude
<jrwren> THAT IS A TRANSITION
<jrwren> cmaloney: that is because HPs cloud really sucks.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Sounds like a great covers album
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> jrwren: What blessed you with that transition?
<jrwren> cmaloney: hahaha, no covers, just a jolting transition.
<jrwren> cmaloney: itunes random
<jrwren> cmaloney: from "My Top Rated"
<cmaloney> jrwren: Seriously though, how hard could it be to just be a provider of cloud boxes
<cmaloney> jrwren: gah, that seems inevitable then (re: transitions)
<cmaloney> Rachmaninov is one of my favorite composers / performers.
<jrwren> cmaloney: its HP. "Seriously though, how hard could it be" and then messing up is what they've done for the past 20yrs in IT.
<jrwren> cmaloney: this rachmaninov I got by your recommendation. its DSO performing
<cmaloney> jrwren: Ah, nice.
<jrwren> Symphony No 2
<cmaloney> That's a great album
<cmaloney> no. 3 lacks a bit but no. 2 is amazing.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-10
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> TGIF and all that.
<cmaloney> Text <- entirety of the plain-text body of a Dodge service specials email I received.
<jrwren> all these stupid computer watches stir fond memories of timex datalink
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<cmaloney> jrwren: I wish I could share in the fond memories
<cmaloney> but the Datalink never had decent Linux support. :)
<jrwren> truth!
<jrwren> that may have been why I stopped using mine.
<SneakyPhil> jcastro: the image in your http://www.jorgecastro.org/2015/04/09/keeping-your-options-open/ post is missing
<greg-g> rick_h_: "reorg" is the word du month
<greg-g> hence the /me breathes
<jrwren> greg-g: is new CTO!!!
<greg-g> jrwren: not 100% far from the truth
<cmaloney> CIO
<cmaloney> CGO
<cmaloney> Chief Greg Officer.
<cmaloney> letterhead: "From the office of my own bad self"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-11
<cmaloney> I <3 that Amazon now has prime stations
<cmaloney> because a) it's another indication that "heavy metal" isn't covered, and b) it doesn't work under Linux.
<cmaloney> hurray outsider!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-12
<cscheib> cmaloney: there's a metal & hard rock station
<cmaloney> cscheib_: would be nicer if I could tell it More like this. they have genesis as a station
<cmaloney> also: morning
<cscheib_> bah, humbug
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/comments/327tv3/which_one_of_you_at_14_seconds/
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-11
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> uh oh... error on kernel upgrade.  /etc/kernel/postinst.d/initramfs-tools exited with return code 1
<_stink_> now i don't know what state my machine is in
<rick_h_> happy?
<_stink_> if i never reboot, i never have to find out :)
<_stink_> was https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/798414
<_stink_> purge-old-kernels and some aptitude fiddling got it happy again
<rick_h_> yay
<cmaloney> woo woo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-12
<rick_h_> ok, I normally hate these things but 3min in I was laughing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PivpCKEiQOQ
<_stink_> haha, yes
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> BTW: MUG Tonight.
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, that one is good
<greg-g> I still haven't seen the original movie, that scene is going to be so weird for me
<cmaloney> I tried watching Downfall
<cmaloney> I got about 2/3rds through it
<cmaloney> the major reason I stopped was because I wanted Hitler to shoot himself sooner.
<cmaloney> It's a very good movie. Portrays Hitler as a beleagured leader
<cmaloney> but it gives him no quarter. He's still a monster
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> pro-tip: When trying to figure out how to display a list in a mako template, you do not want to type in "mako list" into Google.
<cmaloney> Apparently Australia has co-opted that term for their sex offender list.
<rick_h_> ouch
<brousch> Yeah, right cmaloney , like you didn't know that
<cmaloney> brousch: You can sleep better tonight knowing that I did not know that.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-13
<shakes808> evening
<cmaloney> Evening
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Apparently JoDee is not a fan of my "urgent" music this morning (Tron: Uprising soundtrack)
<jcastro> rick_h_: where in the pacific are you going?
<rick_h_> jcastro: maui and the big island
<jcastro> !!
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, 10yr anniv trip
<rick_h_> had our 10yr in March and heading out for it this weekend
<cmaloney> nice!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-14
<shakes808> evening all
<cmaloney> Party
<rick_h_> wheeee
<rick_h_> shakes808: you at your CHC?
<shakes808> rick_h_: correct.
<shakes808> slow moving at the moment, but that is fine.  I don't need peoples to be able to do what I need ;) :)
<shakes808> I have been trying to get the CHC to run in CodeAnywhere.com and C9.io but can't seem to figure out how to look at it.  The app runs, but can't navigate to it to see if my changes are there
<shakes808> I forked the main CHC project
<shakes808> looks like it doesn't know what to do with the request and responses in the anon functions :(
<cmaloney> Morning!
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> That it is
<shakes808> rick_h_: are you guys using GO Language?
<cmaloney> They're using Go for Juju pretty heavily
<shakes808> cmaloney: thank you
<cmaloney> np. I think the source is up on github if you're curious.
<cmaloney> https://github.com/juju
<gamerchick02> https://telegram.me/ubuntuusmi if anyone wants to join in the telegram fun! :)
<gamerchick02> and yes i'm aware that ubuntuusmi is all in one string, but apparently they don't allow dashes. blah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-15
<mrgoodcat> i joined but i can't talk...
<mrgoodcat> is it just announcements?
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Is this the telegram.me?
<mrgoodcat> yea
<cmaloney> Check with gamerchick02. She's the one running it.
<cmaloney> She's on G+ in the community
<mrgoodcat> ok
<mrgoodcat> not really worried about it anyways
<jrwren> she has us mutted ;p
<mrgoodcat> it seems that way
<mrgoodcat> i'm sure its a channel setting that people are muted by default
<ColonelPanic001> what's telegram?
<mrgoodcat> just a chat client
<mrgoodcat> their primary selling point is security and encryption
<jrwren> telegram is not signal :p
<jrwren> telegram got some bad press a few years ago:  http://unhandledexpression.com/2013/12/17/telegram-stand-back-we-know-maths/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-16
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> how are you?
<_stink_> early
<_stink_> :P
<_stink_> you?
<gamerchick02> morning cmaloney
<gamerchick02> and _stink_
<gamerchick02> gotta go grocery shopping. exciting i know. :-P
<cmaloney> woo woo
<cmaloney> getting my hair cut in a bit
<Scary_Guy> morning.  tiring of Mint.  May bite the bullet and switch to OpenBSD, but not sure if I want the headache, but I do want the security.
<cmaloney> Seems a bit drastic to me
<Scary_Guy> probably, but better to be safe than sorry.  My system is always online so I want it as secure as possible.
<cmaloney> I'd use a firewall in between. :)
<cmaloney> Share the work
<Scary_Guy> Yeah, I'm just thinking if they get past that.  Using OpenWRT on the router
<Scary_Guy> Really I wish everyone was this paranoid about their security
<Scary_Guy> although then we wouldn't get neat shows like Mr. Robot
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-17
<jrwren> cmaloney: you see this? https://github.com/mntmn/amiga2000-gfxcard
<cmaloney> jrwren: will take a peek
<cmaloney> jrwren: That's pretty sweet. I hadn't seen that before.
<_stink_> jrwren: fun read
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-10
<cmaloney> morning
<mrgoodcat> morning
<brousch__> Happy Monday
<rick_h> Morning
<brousch__> My son caught a cold on the last weekend of spring break.
<jrwren> thanks murphy
<brousch__> Yeah, we spent the last 2 days of great weather in the house
<jrwren> oh... :(  that sucks.
<rick_h> yea, was nice to get to walk the boy to school this morning
<jrwren> oh nice!
<brousch__> I should try that. We're about 1/4 mile as the crow flies, but 3/4 to 3 miles depending on how flooded the swamp is
<rick_h> heh, yea. It's a little under a mile each way. So makes for a couple of good 20min walks there/back I try to get away from the computer when I can
<rick_h> and if we can ride bikes it's fast
<cmaloney> nice
<rick_h> ok wow, now I wish I hadn't watched that united fiasco video...
<brousch__> eh?
<rick_h> twitter is alight with condemnation for the united removal of a passenger from the plane they overbooked.
<rick_h> https://twitter.com/JayseDavid/status/851223662976004096 is the latest version to come across my feed
<brousch__> Wow
<brousch__> I would be so pissed if I missed a flight because it was overbooked
<rick_h> well there's that but this is they let you on the plane, sit into a seat, and then dragged you off?
<cmaloney> Seriously, that's some shit
<cmaloney> And they wonder why people don't want to fly anymore
<cmaloney> There's the "We fucked up, here's a voucher" approach
<cmaloney> and there's the "We're assholes" approach
<rick_h> not to be all "thank goodness *I* fly Delta" but https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2017/04/09/why-delta-air-lines-paid-me-11000-not-to-fly-to-florida-this-weekend/#7fb60a714de1
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm glad my last flight was on Delta.
<Zimdale> I dunno, our CEO was stuck in LAX for 3+ days this weekend because Delta's clusterfuck. He had to just go buy a ticket for a different airline.
<Zimdale> Got there thursday and ended up flying out through soutwest sunday
<Zimdale> southwest*
<cmaloney> Wow
<cmaloney> That's awful
<Zimdale> #allAirlinesSuck :(
<cmaloney> I think today is trying to killme
<cmaloney> Sitting in the cafe over at Macomb
<cmaloney> and between the service dog and Axe body spray I'm going to asphyxiate
<brousch__> So the dog is strangling you because you are wearing Axe?
<cmaloney> That took some effort to misread didn't it? :)
<brousch__> Yes
<cmaloney> Company that I applied to is apparently asking for 5+ years of NodeJS experience.
<cmaloney> good luck with that.
<Zimdale> We have a guy apply that claimed he had 11 years of Angular
<cmaloney> Is there another tech called "Angular" that isn't AngularJs?
<Zimdale> not that I know of
<Zimdale> He hardly spoke english so I am pretty sure the recruiter was just an ass
<cmaloney> Ugh. That sucks.
<Zimdale> Recruiter also told us he had 9/10 communication skills and we could hardly understand eachother with almost no comprehension
<Zimdale> I think they fired that recruiter after that though
<cmaloney> I feel bad for the dude. I wonder if he was coached into this position.
<Zimdale> yeah
<Zimdale> We had that a lot too with recruiters pushing jrs into sr interviews and stuff
<Zimdale> was just uncomfortable for everyone
<cmaloney> Yeah, no joke
<Zimdale> It's kind of difficult because if they were good enough to be able to accurately judge people they wouldn't be recruiters because they'd make more as devs
<cmaloney> or as dev managers
<Zimdale> That's why I always prefer internal recruiters
<Zimdale> It's less playing the numbers game and they can usually test for culture
<cmaloney> http://imgur.com/r4lz7u9
<Zimdale> haha
<brousch__> The tail disturbs me
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-11
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2017/04/10/open-metalcast-episode-152-death-by-algorithms/
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<brousch__> Correct
<shakes808> morning
<widox> heyo
<cmaloney> btw: MUG tonight.
<cmaloney> Me talking about an Introduction to Debugging in PYthon
<cmaloney> and Tony Bemus talking about firewalls
<Zimdale> Trying out your talk for Pcon?
<cmaloney> Yep
<rick_h> cmaloney: awesome!
<rick_h> cmaloney: you submit to #pyohio?
<cmaloney> Not yet
<cmaloney> Thinking about it though
 * rick_h nudges cmaloney poke poke
<cmaloney> it's only been 10 years since I've been going. I might as well start now
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> something like that
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2017/04/11/regrets/
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/b/109767935477156086705/events/c45ep2a4n0couhokqcunq4u58d8 < Mug Meeting
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-12
<cmaloney> Dammit Canonical, now is not the time when you should be letting go of all of your talented people
<cmaloney> *wah*
 * cmaloney beginis thinking about plan D, where I write books that parents are embarrassed to read to their kids
<cmaloney> "The Fucking Duck", "The Shittiest Day", and "Don't grow older because reality sucks":
<_stink_> like about puberty?
<_stink_> ah i wasn't far off
<cmaloney> Yeah, puderty is good too
<cmaloney> "Why does it hurt when I pee"
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> cmaloney: how did the MUG meeting go?
<cmaloney> pretty well. I have a few things to add to the presentation before Penguicon
<rick_h> yea, it's really good to practice things like that
<cmaloney> and Tony's talk on firewalls was really good. JoDee was there and she said she learned more about firewalls than in her networking class.
<rick_h> lol, that's awesome
<rick_h> tony's smart people so good stuff
<cmaloney> Yeah, definitely.
<cmaloney> bbiab. Getting a roast for dinner (Because the roast we had really did go south on April 10th. )
<Zimdale> I'll probably check it out at pcon
<Zimdale> pending if I can get up by 9 am that saturday
<rick_h> lol, always a challenge
<Zimdale> Hangovers are pretty curel at pcon :(
<brousch__> rick_h: Were you spared the Canonical axe?
<rick_h> brousch__: yea
<brousch__> That's good
<rick_h> hopefully it'll feel that way in a bit :/ but yea rough times
<brousch__> I went through that recently: half of the company let go and I survived. It is tough.
<shakes808> rick_h: Canonical downsized?
<rick_h> shakes808: yea, bit cuts this week
<shakes808> wow that's shitty, but good thing you dodged that axe
<cmaloney> Zimdale: Yeah, the 9am slot is pretty brutal. Not sure if it's as bad as 9am on Sunday though.
<rick_h> cmaloney: good call
<cmaloney> Yeah, unfortunately it dumps a lot of good folks into the pool that I'm trying to swim in
<cmaloney> (The Canonical axe)
<Zimdale> like smlr at pcon?  I feel for those guys
<cmaloney> eg: "why would I hire themediocreprogrammer.com when I can get Barry Warsaw"?
<cmaloney> Zimdale: That's their thing though.
<cmaloney> They've been Sunday Morning for the longest time
<Zimdale> Yup
<brousch__> Hm, I'm surprised JuJu people were cut. Isn't that one of the projects that is continuing?
<cmaloney> Likely cutting Python developers
<cmaloney> I think the only thing that is still Python is launchpad and some odds and sods on the desktop
<rick_h> So it's not a specific style of dev but kind of an across the board thing
<cmaloney> Still sucks though.
<rick_h> oh there's a lot of sucking going on for sure
<brousch__> phrasing
<rick_h> :)
<brousch__> So most everything else has moved to Go?
<rick_h> Oh, most things are in Go for sure. I think it's a case of just right tool/right job. I mean a lot of python is done around the Juju ecosystem, python-libjuju, etc. But the core products like Juju, snaps, lxd etc are Go. I think the snapcraft tool is Python.
<rick_h> but the axe wasn't about folks that have skill x or y. e.g. this wasn't any sort of great python purge.
<cmaloney> https://quitter.is/notice/3122143 <- Replacing /dev/null with a filesystem
<cmaloney> s/fiesystem/file/
<rick_h> hmm, can't load that?
<cmaloney> It's just the one quip, but it looks like it's trying to make you use the qvitter page
<brousch__> We're moving some things from Python to Go also
<jrwren> so sad. its the wrong move.
<jrwren> pypy is faster than go in some cases, and there is no denying python is a far more powerful language.
<cmaloney> jrwren: But Google uses it, so it must be good
<cmaloney> if Google used Rust we'd be bitching about everyone moving to Rush
<cmaloney> Rust, too
<cmaloney> You should already be well into Rush by now
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> exactly.
<jrwren> google has far to much weight and not enought critics.
<jrwren> it is was an MSFT language, everyone would be critical.
<cmaloney> (Now I want to make a Rush language where people invoke the compiler using "gdd"
<jrwren> swift IS an aaple language and everyone IS critical.
<cmaloney> and instead of lex, it'd be "alex"
<jrwren> google always gets a pass, even though they are the biggest spy and customer abuser next to facebook
<brousch__> Bigger than Comcast?
<jrwren> yes.
<jrwren> because at least comcast can't read your email because its over https, but google can read all of your email
<jrwren> and does, and uses it to build a profile of you to target ads and other things.
<cmaloney> They're working on that
<jrwren> and they sell you things so that you'll pay for the privilege of having google spy on you. its mind boggling.
<cmaloney> "Please accept this certificate so that we may use our MITM service to better help our customers"
<jrwren> exactly, or... use our browser, which has its own list of trusted CA.
<jrwren> you don't think they made chrome because FF was slow, do you? :)
 * jrwren takes off tin foil hat.
<cmaloney> I not only have a mouse on my desk, but now I have a cat: https://plus.google.com/photos/117777908934895049975/album/6408130867260141809
<jrwren> new cat?  yay! congrats.
<Zimdale> yay cat!
<cmaloney> jrwren: Not new cat. She's coming up on 5 years old. :)
<Zimdale> Cat's a cat and should always be congratulated
<cmaloney> Darn tootin.
<jrwren> oh. just joined the desk. nice.
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> JoDee was vacuuming, and Pixel uses my desk as a safe haven
<shakes808> that cat isn't doing a great job at taking care of the mouse!!!  I think your broken is cat.
<cmaloney> Is there a particular reason why React lets you do stuff like var foo = <p>Hello foo</p>;
<cmaloney> seems like we're constantly tweaking the "presentation inside the code" boundries
<jrwren> cmaloney: we don't care about that anymore.
<Zimdale> What do you mean, just the jsx idea or putting jsx inside variables?
<cmaloney> The jsx file
 * cmaloney is playing with CodeAcademy and the first thing they're showing is JSX
<Zimdale> That's like react's whole thing, basically creating their own shadowdom
<cmaloney> and they're all about this "var = <p>Hello</p>;" stuff
<cmaloney> like a kid that's proud of the dookie on the carpet
<Zimdale> yeah then in the render you would do "<foo />"
<Zimdale> kinda sorta maybe
<Zimdale> would actually probably be <span>{foo}</span> or something similar
<jrwren> cmaloney: your instinct is exactly right and there is no great solution. react mixes presentation concerns and it is a problem.
<cmaloney> It's like someone said "PHP got it right, so lets do more of that"
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> 'cept its client side.
<cmaloney> But then again, this is Facebook, so PHP is the lingua-franca there
<Zimdale> Ehhhhh I gotcha, I think they justify it by saying "React is just the view layer so it's still part of the view"
<jrwren> ^^^ what Zimdale said
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's not too horrible, just weird.
<Zimdale> Once you get used to it, it's pretty sweet
<Zimdale> then you can contribute to pocket penguin \o/
<cmaloney> Exactly
<Zimdale> except do not learn from that horrible alt framework I used
<Zimdale> my god the regerts
<Zimdale> That was a lot of "oshit I have to build this all before pcon" decisions so it's missing some pretty essentia things like docs :(
<jrwren> anyone know if I can split panes in tmux, but have the pane windows be unique tmux sessions?
<jrwren> i'd like to navigate tmux windows in each pane isntead of having the panes exist in a window.
<jrwren> maybe I can just join-pain my way there.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I've never tried to use multiple sessions with tmux like that
<jrwren> yeah :/
<jrwren> join-pane is good enough. a little ackward, but I'll take it.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-13
<jrwren> It would help me & 4th&5th grade First Lego League a lot if you follow this link, scroll down and vote: http://bit.ly/2onMSbN
<shakes808> sorry jrwren, i don't remember what my facebook credentials are :|
<cmaloney> I have no FB presence
<jrwren> its ok. thanks for clicking
<shakes808> I can open a bunch of incognito browsers and click away, if just visiting will help
<shakes808> haha
<jrwren> no, i think it needs FB login
<cmaloney> that's harsh
<cmaloney> "But all of my friends are privacy-wonks and OSS bigots"
<cmaloney> "Sucks to be you kiddo"
<jrwren> oh, its ok.
<cmaloney> now if they recognized toots from GNUSocial... ;)
<cmaloney> morning / afternoon
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> How goes?
<_stink_> eh
<_stink_> juggling darts :P
<_stink_> you?
<shakes808> chainsaws
<cmaloney> Trying once again to relearn the front-end stack for a job challenge
<cmaloney> Thinking about juggling torches whole doused in gasoline. ;)
<Zimdale> That the react thing>?
<cmaloney> Yeah
<Zimdale> Yeah react seems to be a pretty hot buzz word right now :(
<jrwren> yes, be sure to say "reducer" a lot when talking about your redux react bullshit
<jrwren> make a bingo card, but don't actually yell bingo when you win, just sit silently with the satisfaction that its all bullshit
<cmaloney> Actually this one is a 4 hour "work day" where I get to prioritize work and fix something
<cmaloney> that's not actually on the product
<brousch__> wtf
<cmaloney> This is my life now
<brousch__> That sounds like something you'd have an intern do, not an experienced person
<cmaloney> Unfortunately it's costly enough to hire / train people that they'd rather subject everyone to some form of test to see if they can code
<jrwren> cmaloney: 8 queens problem :)
<cmaloney> Like hiring someone at the Meijer bakery but subjecting them to The British Baking Show challenges prior.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I read that. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: omg, so good!
<Zimdale> Yeah we've done interviews like that at myl ast place
<Zimdale> it's brutal and was mostly a culture fit thing moreso than a real "test"
<greg-g> that's rough
<cmaloney> Unfortunately it's also common
<cmaloney> So unless you've kept up with the industry in the past 4 years, and can emerge fully-formed like Goddess Athena, ready to churn out code, kick ass, and be a perfect culture fit then you're garbage.
<Zimdale> pretty muich
<greg-g> :(
<greg-g> we'd never do that here, fwiw
<cmaloney> Would that I could get a response. ;)
<brousch__> greg-g: Do you guys still use SaltStack?
<Zimdale> Where is here greg-g?
<greg-g> cmaloney: :/
<greg-g> brousch__: trying to get rid of it :)
<greg-g> Zimdale: Wikimedia Foundation
<Zimdale> I know someone that was interviewing for wikimedia
<Zimdale> for like the last 4 months
<Zimdale> Seems like a cool place
<greg-g> heh, we're sometimes slow :) (which sucks, because we lose good people that way)
<Zimdale> I think he's still interviewing
<Zimdale> he kind of dropped out of contact after the last company basically folded :(
<brousch__> greg-g: We are moving to SaltStack at Limelight Networks. Mind if I ask why you're getting rid of it?
<greg-g> well, I can tell you why we aren't using it for deploy-related things: it's a root-focused tool. To do any debugging you need to have root, and most deployers don't
<greg-g> and Ops is writing their own automation framework that mostly supersedes it
<brousch__> Ambitious
<brousch__> It is not well-loved here, but the decision came from higher up
<greg-g> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cumin
<jrwren> wtf?
<jrwren> why are you worried about root?
<greg-g> jrwren: what do you mean?
<jrwren> I mean, if someone is deploying something, why are you concerned about root access?
<greg-g> because you don't need root to deploy :)
<jrwren> you don't need power tools to build a house, but it sure helps. :)
<greg-g> also, we give our deploy privs to volunteers (in trusted cases, after they sign an NDA because deployers do have access to the DBs which obviously have private user info)
<greg-g> no, it makes it worse in this case
<greg-g> root is a crutch
<greg-g> if you do things as root you're doing it wrong (99% of the time)
<jrwren> that is a very old way of thinking.
<jrwren> its certainly not true 99% of the time anymore.
<greg-g> switching a symlink and doing a git-pull (opposite order) doesn't need root :)
<jrwren> true enough.
<greg-g> separation of concerns
<jrwren> you are using unix user security model to allow untrusted people to deploy. THAT is a good reason.
<greg-g> well, trusted but volunteer
<jrwren> oh yes, privilege separation is a must for processes. I don't want to suggest it isn't.
<greg-g> you might not know how Wikipedia works, but ;)
<jrwren> oh definitely, I do not.
<greg-g> we're weird
<jrwren> I only want to argue your generalizeation :p
<greg-g> a combo of "old school opsen" plus "volunteers having access to info/tooling no one would ever dream of giving"
<jrwren> its ok, i'll move along :)
<greg-g> now, I am annoyed by how little Ops gives out root, even in limited cases/services
<greg-g> it's a long standing issue :)
<jrwren> its pretty common, especially for an old guard type org with an old mindset.
 * greg-g nods
<jrwren> Canonical is no better and probably a lot worse.
<jrwren> But Arbor... oh man... that was devops... best... devops...env... ever.
<greg-g> yeah, our Ops team also has a high percentage of DDs and DMs
<jrwren> DD and DM?
<greg-g> Debian Developers/Maintainers
<jrwren> oh! nice!
<jrwren> well next time I need a DD sponsor I'll ask you to get me in touch.
<greg-g> yeah, it is for a lot of things, but also, it imparts a certain world view many times :)
<jrwren> oh definitely.
<greg-g> which isn't inherently "wrong" or "right" just, yeah, you know
<jrwren> at this point, I think the ubuntu/debian packager mindset is flawed and too limiting. I thank them for what we have got to this point, but we need more flexibility in some things that they consider hard rules.
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> but then the npm way... not great either ;)
<jrwren> well... no...
<jrwren> but not terrible either
<cmaloney> JavaScript is a cancer.
<jrwren> and for shipping production software there are ways to meet in the middle.
<jrwren> linux is a cancer. I like cancer.
<greg-g> and the "just make a container with all your dependencies" is a nice idea, but a pain to maintain/do fixes/security updates when needed
<jrwren> ugh... "make a container" is terrible.
<cmaloney> greg-g: I remember at SF.net that we had issues with how little access we gave our engineers
<jrwren> it means you can't actually package your software in a repeatable way.
<cmaloney> eventually we became more liberal
<greg-g> jrwren: exactly, so annoying :)
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oDAkmfoAgA
<greg-g> why do I get a distinct Mike Patton feel from this?
<cmaloney> Not sure if Mike Patton was influenced by Joe Jackson, but I know Anthrax was.
<cmaloney> That and Latin music tends to get parodied when people are sarcastic
<cmaloney> not sure who started that trend
<cmaloney> "Wanna tell someone to go fuck themselves? Do it in a Bossa Nova."
<cmaloney> Joe Jackson also did "Cha Cha Loco"
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwR3wFox6r8
<jrwren> i only know the Joe Jackson song that he did with William Shatner
<cmaloney> Sure it wasn't Ben Folds?
<cmaloney> Apparently it was all three.
<jrwren> was it?
<cmaloney> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4myrb0
<jrwren> Common People?
<cmaloney> Apparently.
<jrwren> album version is WAY better tahn this live version
<cmaloney> <3 Joe Jackson though. If you dive into his discography you're in for some treats
<cmaloney> I can't even recommend a starter album because they're vastly different from each other
<jrwren> huh, Ben has Bass and Synth credits on the album version. how did I miss that?
<cmaloney> eg: Stepping Out is different from Night Music, Willpower, Big World, Beat Crazy, Jumpin' Jive, Body & Soul, Laughter and Lust
<jrwren> oh sheesh, Ben is on most of the tracks on this album. I guess I knew he was on some, but I didn't know it was most.
<cmaloney> Ben Folds is talented
<jrwren> no doubt. for sure.
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJwt2dxx9yg
<cmaloney> You've probably heard this song without realizing it was Joe Jackson
<cmaloney> and "Is she really going out with him"
<cmaloney> And this is the cover that I wish the band I was in would have taken more seriously: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be7iNHw8QoQ
<shakes808> cmaloney: aren't they coming in concert soon?
<cmaloney> I don't know.
<shakes808> they are on tour with killswitch
<shakes808> but not coming here, unless they already came
<cmaloney> Joe Jackson? :)
<shakes808> Anthrax
<shakes808> HAHA, can you imagine Joe Jackson and Killswitch Engaged touring together haha
<shakes808> there would be some very confused people there
<shakes808> I would have loved to see Weather Report: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqashW66D7o
<cmaloney> weather report is amazing
<gamerchick02> they are.
<gamerchick02> thanks for the link
<gamerchick02> has everyone updated their ubuntu machines?
<gamerchick02> i think i'm going to tonight
<cmaloney> i need to get my linode off of 12.04
<gamerchick02> :)
<_stink_> same
 * greg-g 's jessie digitalocean is doing fine ;)
<gamerchick02> woohoo
<jrwren> jessie is current.
<shakes808> cmaloney: python 3 question -> I have a list of strings that I create from doing a web crawl.  I am now trying to get the substring so I can manipulate it to navigate to a webpage to download a picture.  How do I do something like substring(0: {index where "characters-i-am-looking-for})
<cmaloney> Are you looking for something like "img=" ?
<shakes808> I think i found what i am looking for: print(item[:item.index("ers/")+4])
<cmaloney> That looks awful. :)
<shakes808> I am going to be manipulating the url that I scrapped and have to append to it to grab the url for the img
<shakes808> HAHA
<shakes808> <--- Less than mediocre programmer
<shakes808> is there a more elegant way to do that?
<cmaloney> what about item.find('ers/') ?
<cmaloney> or, if you know you're splitting off everything after 'ers/', do a split on that
<shakes808> it still stops  and have to append: +4 to that
<shakes808> print(item[:item.find("ers/") + 4])
<cmaloney> (head, tail) = item.split('ers/')
<shakes808> print(item[:item.split("ers/")])
<shakes808> that didn't work
<cmaloney> no
<jrwren> shakes808: have you considered using scrapy?
<jrwren> shakes808: are you using beautiful soup?
<cmaloney> print (item.split('ers/)[1))
<cmaloney> and yes, use Beautiful Soup if you're looking for something in a tag
<cmaloney> because jesus-tap-dancing-Christ parsing HTML is a PITA
<shakes808> I just found this: http://www.netinstructions.com/how-to-make-a-web-crawler-in-under-50-lines-of-python-code/
<shakes808> and been manipulating this
<shakes808> I have the urls that I am looking for, just need to manipulate them to get the images
<cmaloney> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10600079/python-beautifulsoup-img-tag-parsing
<cmaloney> Seriously, if you're parsing html you are reinventing BS4
<cmaloney> Which might be OK, but yipes.
<shakes808> haha, i didn't reinvent it, that post did ;)
<shakes808> but that looks very similar to what I have
<cmaloney> Yeah, and it's under 50 lines of code. ;)
<shakes808> HAHA
<shakes808> fair enough
<shakes808> I will take a look at BS
<shakes808> after I try this out.  though
<cmaloney> And if you want the images minus the http://foo.bar/baz/img.jpg then I'd do a split on that (uri.split.'/'[-1] and Bob's your uncle.
<cmaloney> Sure, I understand. :)
<cmaloney> bbl.
<shakes808> haha, actually what you gave me is going to work out i think
<shakes808> I will post my final code when I get it working
<_stink_> publish it on pypi
<_stink_> call it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-14
<_stink_> JustOkSoup
<cmaloney> MediocreSoup++
<shakes808> alright, so here is what i have, but the image part isn't working correctly.  I see the files but can't open them :|
<shakes808> https://pastebin.com/r5Ht0J8q
<shakes808> the split stopped working, went back to the " ... + 4"
<shakes808> don't know why it worked one time and then stopped later
<shakes808> what am i doing wrong with saving the images?
<cmaloney> Which site are you crawling?
<shakes808> spider("http://www.smashbros.com/us/", "characters/", 1)
<shakes808> there is the command line call
<cmaloney> So you're trying to get all of the character images?
<shakes808> correct
<cmaloney> What I'd try
<cmaloney> #1: split on /
<cmaloney> and get the pages that way
<cmaloney> so you'd have site, country, characters, character_name
<shakes808> so do a split on item like this -> (h, b, baseURL, country, characters, character_name  = item.split("/")
<cmaloney> Yeah
<jrwren> is there a reason you cannot simply use wget?
<shakes808> ??? Just found the script and started modifying it.
<shakes808> jrwren: I just tried using wget and the same outcome, creates the files on my local but can't open them ->   os.system("wget -c " + fullURL + " -O " + savedPicture)
<shakes808> be back online in 20ish
<shakes808> bak
<shakes808> back*
<shakes808> i think i found one of my issues.  i had the final url incorrect.  but i have some things to hammer out.  might have to find another way to get the url so i can get the correct png.  I found that bowser's image is called koopa
<cmaloney> nice
<cmaloney> welcome to Nintendo. ;)
<shakes808> mega-man is named rockman :|  wth haha
<cmaloney> That's what he's called in Japan
<shakes808> oh really?
<shakes808> didn't know that
<shakes808> so now i figure out how to get the images from the site
<cmaloney> schweet.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<Zimdale> Morning
<_stink_> yes
<jrwren> good morning
<cmaloney> How goes?
<brousch__> Too busy
<brousch__> I'm giving a talk Monday and have no time this weekend to prepare
<_stink_> wing it?
<rick_h> steal cmaloney's talk
<jrwren> you'll find time.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it only has a few flaws in it. :)
<brousch__> Well mine is supposed to be about SaltStack
<shakes808> morning
<cmaloney> brousch__: I have one about Ansible that you can steal. :)
<brousch__> Yeah, one problem I have is there's not a lot of interest in Salt. People on complex systems are using Chef/Puppet, and smaller systems are using Ansible
<brousch__> When I asked for requests about specific Salt use cases, it was stuff more suited to Ansible
 * shakes808 naive to such things
<shakes808> what is Salt / Ansible / Chef / Puppet?   Automation for DevOPs?
<cmaloney> shakes808: It's system configuration / management
<cmaloney> eg: instead of logging into a machine, ensuring there's a directory present, and doing git clone repo:foo tag/bar you can instead run a playbook that will do that
<cmaloney> (and any other steps needed to make that work)
<cmaloney> (eg: ensure that build-essential is installed, that you have Python3, etc.)
<jrwren> https://saltstack.com "Intelligent orchestration for the software-defined data center"
<cmaloney> Puppet does the same thing (in a sense) but it has clients that ping a server to see what all needs doing
<jrwren> why would you ever want build-essential installed on a production server?  duh, i guess if it is your build server :)
<cmaloney> (unsure about Chef, and Salt Stack)
<cmaloney> jrwren: Don't ask.
<cmaloney> we built our own Python on our prod servers
<brousch__> Salt has a "master" that can control the "minions"
<cmaloney> Salt has possibly the worst terminology out of them
<cmaloney> "pillars"
<brousch__> Or multiple masters and mid-level managers (syndics) in cases like ours
<jrwren> cmaloney: you are doing it wrong.
<brousch__> Pillar is used for system-specific variables, but we only use it for encrypted data here
<jrwren> :p
<cmaloney> jrwren: I no longer work there, so don't care. :)
<rick_h> get ahead of the curve: https://github.com/purpleidea/mgmt
<rick_h> that had a lot of attention at cgfmgmtcamp in ghent this year
<brousch__> rick_h: We already have cfengine, chef, and Salt in production
<rick_h> jrwren: :) always comes down to the build artifact on all of these doesn't it.
<jrwren> cmaloney: its ok. I do it wrong every day. "we have to"
<rick_h> brousch__: right, time for another one!
<jrwren> rick_h: yup.
<brousch__> And sendconf
<cmaloney> jrwren: Had I had my druthers I would have made RPM packages that we would install
<cmaloney> or containers that we would deploy to.
<jrwren> cmaloney: exactly!
<cmaloney> but they were also CentOS6 machines so lord knows what we would have blown up
<cmaloney> (again, not my decision to deploy to CentOS)
<cmaloney> so a /usr/local/bin/python pre-built on the target machine was the least of my problems.
<brousch__> rick_h: Not "had" in production, "have" in production. It's kind of a mess
<jrwren> cmaloney: IME (10+yrs ago) building rpms is a bit easier than building debs and it all just works once you get it. I'm sure you'd have been fine.
<shakes808> cmaloney - what is wrong with CentOS?  The company that I am working for is looking to switch over to that from Debian because of compatibility issues with another service.
<rick_h> shakes808: :/
<rick_h> shakes808: what service?
<cmaloney> Oracle
<rick_h> lol
<cmaloney> shakes808: CentOS is not bad, but it tends to be crufty
<cmaloney> The version we had didn't get Python 2.7 until it was pailfully out of date to ship 2.6
<shakes808> we are switching our virtual hosts or something.  From Xen to something else.  And their conversions from Xen include - Red Hat, Cent, Ubuntu, and some other one but not Debian.   We don't understand how they support Ubuntu but not Debian ( to my knowledge Ubuntu is based off of Debian, correct? )
<jrwren> oh yes, that is why py26 had support for so long.
<jrwren> ubuntu has their own kernel, different from debian kernel
<cmaloney> xen to kvm lijely
<cmaloney> xen has a lot of security issues
<jrwren> how did you manage the li in likely, but not the j?
<cmaloney> linode is migrating customers off of xen
<jrwren> and yet... EC2.
<cmaloney> phone keyboadd
<jrwren> Xen is GPL, right? oh, but is it not AGPL so AWS can keep theri mods for EC2 only?
<cmaloney> possibly? nfc
<cmaloney> could also be that kvm is best suited for linux only vs multiple os
<cmaloney> haven't peeked thst hsrd ibto ut
<cmaloney> (i'm creating my own language)
<jrwren> definitely not.
<cmaloney> which?
<jrwren> Xen has 2 modes. HVM and whatever the default is.
<jrwren> kvm/qemu is good at any OS, windows, et.
<jrwren> but Xen has been around a little longer, it is possible that for windows the drivers function better.
<jrwren> the virtio drivers for kvm/qemu can be a pain in windows.
<cmaloney> ah
<jrwren> remember last night... er afternoon with greg-g, we were talking about packaging extremists. The most recent debian-devel msg is on that subject and it points out that section 4.13 of debian policy says "SHOULD" not "MUST" :)
<rick_h> you can't get 3 techies in a room to agree on "must" :P
<jrwren> so true! that is why design by commitee fails. BDFL wins
<brousch__> rick_h: Ah, crap mgmt is written in Go. Now our people will get excited about it
<rick_h> brousch__: yea, it's fast, builds across platforms pretty well, etc
<rick_h> brousch__: :P
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> too bad it can't benenfit from shared memory of shared libraries.
<shakes808> we are moving from Xen to VMWare
<shakes808> and they contacted their support and they flat out said they don't support that conversion
<jrwren> lol, WHAT??
<shakes808> yeah, that is what we don't understand either.
<shakes808> how much different is Debian to Ubuntu that they would support the latter but not former?
<shakes808> it is all rick_h fault ! HAHA
<jrwren> oh, VERY .
<jrwren> because the kernel is what matters when it comes to VM support.
<cmaloney> Totally
<jrwren> also, "support" is all about contracts.
<jrwren> they don't support debian because there is no company behind it.
<cmaloney> Ideally it shouldn't give two figs about what the kernel is that's running it
<jrwren> they support ubuntu because canonical partners with them to support it.
<jrwren> there is always 2 things.  1. what is supported.   2. what works.
<jrwren> I'm always a little surprised when any company says they support centos, but centos is EXACTLY rhel with the name changed, so its a way of saying you support RHEL without partnering with RH, I guess?
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's a lateral movel
<jrwren> what kernel does debian even ship these days. isn't jessie 3.13 or some such?
<jrwren> 3.16
<rick_h> yea support means testing which means $$ which means trying to get partners to help subsidize it and it's hard to "partner with debian"
<jrwren> so latest debian ships 3.16 kernel. that is VERY different than what Ubuntu does with HWE kernels: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack#Kernel.2FSupport.A14.04.x_Ubuntu_Kernel_Support
<shakes808> with that logic, Ubuntu 14.x has the same kernel as Debian then.  So in theory, it should be supported since they had the same kernel.  .... correct?!
<jrwren> 14.04 did, but 14.04.[15] upgraded.
<jrwren> and even then the kernel build options are different.
<jrwren> and "supported" no.
<jrwren> will it work, yes.
<rick_h> "supported" as in it might work? Or "supported" as in "VMware will answer the phone"?
<rick_h> two different things :)
<shakes808> HAHA, awesome
<cmaloney> Yeah, 14.04 has the Hardware Enablement Stack
<cmaloney> so you can use the later video card drivers
 * cmaloney has it on all of his machiens
<cmaloney> machines
<shakes808> i guess that kind of makes sense from their side though.  Canonical has people that can support it for sure as where Debian doesn't have that?   As for Debian, doesn't have anyone but the community behind it?
<cmaloney> I <3 how my shit-ass AMD process from 2012 is dusting JoDee's recent laptop w/ an i5 chip
<cmaloney> s/process/processor/
<jrwren> debian is community effort. you could probably install the ubuntu kernel debs on debian and it would all be nice.
<jrwren> but jessie isn't packaged that way out of the box.
<cmaloney> "AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor"
<jrwren> cmaloney: REALLY!?!?!
<jrwren> that is surprising.
<cmaloney> "Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300HQ CPU @ 2.30GHz"
<cmaloney> It's a laptop though, so there might be some power-management shenannigans going on that I'm not aware of
<jrwren> on what is it "dusting" it?
<jrwren> support means you can call them adn they'll try to help you. That also means if they fix your problem  you may need to add their private support repo or maybe even a repo just for you with fixes just for you, because they haven't tested your fixes enough for a general release
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'm running Python2 tests for Astropy
<cmaloney> er, Python3
<cmaloney> and my desktop machine completed them faster than JoDee's machine
<jrwren> cool.
<cmaloney> which is still processing those tests
<jrwren> its that high clock rate.
<jrwren> http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/148/AMD_FX-Series_FX-8350_vs_Intel_Core_i5_Mobile_i5-6300HQ.html
<cmaloney> Ah, it looks like it's underclocked
<cmaloney> it also consumes an order of magintude more power
<cmaloney> also likely doesn't help that she's now watching Big Bang Theory on the machine
<cmaloney> (*sigh*)
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> no, that won't help.
<jrwren> still, I had no idea AMD processors could even keep up with intel, especially skylake
<cmaloney> Trying to explain why anyone would want to use a virtualenv is fun
<cmaloney> (for someone who isn't a developer)
<gamerchick02> i'm doing my upgrade now. for some reason it didn't pop last night. oh well
<jrwren> yacketty and z are the first time in yrs that I didn't upgrade. I'm still on xenial like a sucka.
<brousch__> jrwren: That's one sign of old age - sitting on LTS
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> i really should upgrade eh?
<cmaloney> So is it a sign of being elderly when you're still on 12.04 and 14.04?
<cmaloney> Get me my walker and my whipping cane.
<brousch__> Senility
 * rick_h watches jedi teaser 5x and then tries to go back to work
 * shakes808 agrees with rick_h
<jrwren> i'm doing xenail->yackety
<jrwren> it asks:
<jrwren> 126 packages are going to be removed.
<jrwren> Removing the packages can take several hours.
<jrwren> how long do you think it will really take?
<jrwren> I'm thinking 3 minutes.
<cmaloney> I think it depends
<jrwren> oh wow... it just plain failed the remove.
<cmaloney> but yeah, several hours seems a bit much
<jrwren> instantly moving to next step
<cmaloney> x -> z?
<jrwren> err, well, yes, once I clean up a bit.
<jrwren> I like to audit installed pacakges and apt purge anything I no longer need eveyr time I upgrade.
<jrwren> keeps pkg count down and makes for speedier upgrades
<jrwren> apt autoremove was the same pkglist and it took less than 1m.
<jrwren> that hours message must be hard coded from a long time ago with no attempt to estimate
<cmaloney> Likel one of those "on a really slow computer this could take a long time" messages.
<jrwren> no matter what, its a bug. its the wrong message.
<jrwren> we can do better :)
<cmaloney> Playing around with JavaScript, so decided to do my traditional "Hello World"
<cmaloney> https://github.com/craigmaloney/js_shutbox
<jrwren> that was a fun cleanup session... now y->z :)
<jrwren> anyone know why my upgrade from yakkety to zesty says its removing strongswan? did ipsec move to different package or is it gone from ubuntu?
<jrwren> http://packages.ubuntu.com/zesty/strongswan-charon is there. I guess it is OK
<jrwren> Fetched 1,352 MB in 6s (2,309 kB/s)
<jrwren> it was a lot longer than 6s.... more ubuntu bugs :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-15
<gamerchick02> ubuntu-gnome installed! i'm liking it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-09
<Scary_Guy> https://vimeo.com/263108265 free this weekend I guess
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> and the snow snow snow...#$%@%#
<jrwren> yeah, i just looked out the window and said some curses out loud.
<brousch> I'd say ours is more like sleet
<cmaloney> heh
<Scary_Guy> It's April, what is this shit?  also good morning
<waldo323> april showers, doesn't specify the type of showers
<waldo323> the phrase is unfortunately weakly typed
<jrwren> lol @ weakly typed
<Scary_Guy> what I really hate it it appears to give validity to those that say "if there's no global warming, why is it so cold?"
<Scary_Guy> If we're not devolving as a species, why are they so dumb?
<rick_h_> Well I think the big thing is I was spoiled the last two years.
<rick_h_> by this time I was fishing off the kayak last year
<jrwren> yup. i'm itching to get into the kayak
<rick_h_> yea, hoping to get the boy one this summer so he can go out with me
<rick_h_> he was having fun paddling around my aunt's up at her lake placed
<jrwren> awesome. If I continue to enjoy it I'm going to upgrade from my inflatable to something a little nicer and then bring the kiddo in the inflatable when we go together.
<jrwren> I really like the inflatable becuase I can throw it in the trunk of car and just go.
<jrwren> Upgrade will mean a bar and rack system for the car.
<jrwren> as it is, I tie her tube to the back of the kayak and drag her around. She likes that.
<rick_h_> hah
<jrwren> I don't like it because it slows me down a lot and I get tired faster :)
<rick_h_> I do hate it when I've got to get the ladder to get the kayak on/off the top of the truck
<rick_h_> makes me wish I'd have gone for the smaller models heh
<jrwren> heh
<rick_h_> yep...that's snow. https://www.instagram.com/p/BhXbOtPF0g1/
<cmaloney> You're getting a lot more than we are
<Scary_Guy> http://www.humoar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/identifying-wood.jpg
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-10
<gamerchick02_> rick_h_, April snow makes things... grow?
<Scary_Guy> Makes my anger grow that there is snow
<Scary_Guy> I don't really mind the snow, it's the cold I hate
<Scary_Guy> snow just sucks to drive in
<rick_h_> it's well over an inch here now...
<rick_h_> I guess it's 45 tomorrow so it'll just melt
<rick_h_> but still, looks like quite the winter wonderland atm
<waldo323> good spring/winter morning...it was spring when I left for work and winter when I got to work
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> rick_h_:Yeah, we have a light dusting on the ground today
<cmaloney> reminder: MUG meeting tonight. Michael Lucas will be there!
<cmaloney> But if you can't be there we should be streaming tonight
<cmaloney> (check the website fo details)
<cmaloney> Also we have board elections
<rick_h_> It's pretty out I guess https://photos.app.goo.gl/h0lFcKXCC1PFLVTo1
<cmaloney> Wow.
<cmaloney> BTW: I mentioned to JoDee that you were upset that you couldn't go kayaking. She said you could still go kayaking. It could be a whole new sport
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> Ice man cometh
<waldo323> https://goo.gl/images/j3XM6D
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> nice
<jrwren> some folks do cold weather kayaking, but i've decided never to try. :)
<rick_h_> yea, I like slashing some cool water on me to cool down in the summer
<rick_h_> not sure on kayaking with the goal of "no water on me!"
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> If anyone is interested in a front-end position in Ann Arbor the following came in my mail from Blue Chip Talent: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/r4WRQdGQbJ/
<jrwren> wow, i must be getting old. I don't even consider descriptions that don't tell me what the company does.
<brousch> It is nice to be able to choose a job based on what the company does as well as the technology you'd be doing
<cmaloney> I've hit the point too where if it says "adtech", "fintech", or "blockchain" I'm not going to be a good fit
<cmaloney> your priorities are not in-line with the priorities that I have
<waldo323> the name of my next company -> AdTech FinTech Blockchain, strategy card and board games for the tech savvy
<waldo323> or rather AdTech FinTech Blockchain Games, strategy card and board games for the tech savvy
<cmaloney> waldo323: Don't make me come over there...
<cmaloney> Though if you combine AdTech, FinTech, BlockChain, and Cryptocurrencies I think you create the Douchebag Singularity
<brousch> I think he's trying to make sure you stay away
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/qedtherese/status/970856226106982401 there you go
<rick_h_> looks like still folks hacking on the bookmark/link problem
<cmaloney> We're streaming the MUG meeting now
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-11
<rick_h_> dammit https://twitter.com/mitechie/status/984044809408122880
<Scary_Guy> Starbucks sucks anyway :P  what happened specifically though?
<rick_h_> the image there, now to get wifi you have to give info and agree to marketing emails
<Scary_Guy> oh, didn't see that
<rick_h_> and I've fallen out of the habit of bringing my mifi as backup, oh well. Phone hotspot it is
<rick_h_> yea, one button "I agree" to get whatever you want to send me...
<rick_h_> booooo
<Scary_Guy> or cantenna :p
<Scary_Guy> I'm less worried about spam and more worried about monitoring of traffic, unless you have a VPN
<Scary_Guy> anyway brb, I need to restart
<jrwren> xfinitywifi?
<jrwren> its everywhere in Ann Arbor, rather nice if you are a comcast customer.
 * rick_h_ isn't a comcast customer
<rick_h_> well, I'm a comcast business I guess
<rick_h_> I'll just use my cell data, fast enough for this work and I've got no problems paying for my use.
<rick_h_> I'm just not signing up to get spammed and such
<jrwren> is comcast business not xfinity? you have a comcast account, right? you can probably use xfinity wifi
<rick_h_> no, I've got a comcastbusiness account. It's a different set
<jrwren> dang
<jrwren> good to know. i've considered getting one for hosting servers at home. I guess I won't.
<rick_h_> Yea, it was funny because one day the xfinity sales guy came by to tell me about how the neighborhood got a speed upgrade and I had left them long ago and they wanted me back
<rick_h_> "umm, I am a comcast customer...I've been back with you for a couple of years"
<rick_h_> but because I'm a business customer it's a different system
<jrwren> ha!
<Scary_Guy> I'd rather use dialup than them honestly.  horrible company
<Scary_Guy> I guess it's good if you have no other options, although I guess not having internet is always an option too
<rick_h_> Yea, the big thing is that doing video/photos/etc end of the day I need upload bandwidth
<rick_h_> still can't get as much as I want and pay through the nose
<rick_h_> first company to give me 50/50 either way wins my $$
<Scary_Guy> anyway, nap time, bbl
<cmaloney> This is kind of strange: https://stackoverflow.com/jobs/173294/software-engineering-manager-100k-yr-crossover
<rick_h_> yea, saw that
<rick_h_> Curious about an eng mgr position being a coding contest thing...has the smell of "free work" to it but maybe not.
<cmaloney> The company that they're hiring for seems like a managerial trainwreck according to Glassdoor
<rick_h_> hah, well that's why they're hiring managers :P
<cmaloney> With a coding challenge. ;)
<brousch> To be a manager, you have to be the best coder?
<cmaloney> sounds like they're more interested in the game than the results
<rick_h_> yep, then you hire a bunch of coders better than you as the manager and win!
<cmaloney> Then your prefecture gets to eat
<cmaloney> or something
<Scary_Guy> They hire security staff using a pit and some lions
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-13
<jrwren> lol, same server from DAYS ago. it never recovered.
<jrwren> load average: 1383.19, 1382.80, 1381.43
<jrwren> terminal responsive. network responsive. I'm listening to music from it & chatting with you on it.
<jrwren> but `sync` never returns.
<jrwren> I love linux.
<jrwren> even when there is an error it is rock solid.
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> good stuff
<rick_h_> well, once it's load gets down to reasonable
<cmaloney> Sounds like there's bad hardware involved
<cmaloney> or corrupted somethingorother
<cmaloney> but yeah, Linux is amazing for how much it'll try to keep going unless it can't.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-14
<Scary_Guy> yeah, fucked up my xkb settings the other day.  it ran, just without any keyboard input whatsoever.  had to figure out what I did and fix that before it would function again.
<Scary_Guy> that's what I get for wanting a working scroll lock i guess
<jrwren> scroll lock to actually pause scrolling?
<Scary_Guy> some people actually use the terminal for things, strange IKR?
<jrwren> that is a silly response.
<jrwren> i counter with: terminals didn't have scroll lock.
<jrwren> but now I'm not so sure.
 * jrwren looks for scroll lock on the adm3a
<jrwren> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-3A#/media/File:KB_Terminal_ADM3A.svg
<jrwren> no scroll lock
<jrwren> therefore some people actually use the terminal for things without scroll lock
<jrwren> and vi was writtn without scroll lock, so i can too.
<Scary_Guy> the ADM3A didn't have a lot of things.  and vi is crap :p
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> so objective.
<jrwren> aren't you going to MLWTTKK tonight?
<Scary_Guy> nope, City Club
<Scary_Guy> I hate The Token, I'm not a fan of the promoter, and MLWTTKK has been pretty lackluster I've heard
<Scary_Guy> recently that is, I like their music but their stage presence has been abysmal according to multiple friends
<Scary_Guy> Industrial Detroit is doing City and I'm picking up some friends then heading down
<Scary_Guy> I hear the weather is going to suck so I'm expecting everything to suffer in terms of attendance
<Scary_Guy> anyway, l8r
<cmaloney> ed is the only true editor
<jrwren> i can't remember how to use it. or ex. or edlin
<jrwren> anyone know how I can xargs to a bash function?
<cmaloney> https://stackoverflow.com/jobs/173633/free-bass-fishing-lessons-for-lead-data-engineer-catch-co
<cmaloney> If it's one argument shouldn't that happen automatically?
<cmaloney> er, sorry, script, not function.
<cmaloney> um.... not sure offhand
<cmaloney> jrwren: Did you find somethhing on stack overflow because I found this: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11003418/calling-shell-functions-with-xargs
<cmaloney> not sure if that's exactly what you're looking for
<jrwren> I think that is same as I found, but it didnt' work for me, not sure why.
<jrwren> I ended up wildcarding the args.
<Scary_Guy> C-m C-x butterfly
<Scary_Guy> sorry, C-x M-c M-butterfly
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-15
<cmaloney> Hoping we don't lose power, but our lights are flickering
<Scary_Guy> I had the UPS trip a few times.  Space heater went out twice so lost enough power for it to do that
<Scary_Guy> it got down to 63, I have it set to 78, and it's currently still at 69/70
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-06
<jrwren> whoa... I had missed this... this is great: https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-1-1-1-1-for-families/
<_stink_> nice!
<greg-g> the danger of censorship: https://blog.cloudflare.com/the-mistake-that-caused-1-1-1-3-to-block-lgbtqia-sites-today/
<rick_h_> yea...hello "slippery slope" debate
<cmaloney> Please no
<Scary_Guy> The things I hate most about censorship are __________ and __________
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> it is still a great product for some use cases.
<Scary_Guy> China would disagree only because it doesn't go far enough. :P
<Dekkard> lol
<Dekkard> ok.. Im going to the store, who needs Matzo.. passover starts wednesday
<Dekkard> anyone??
<Dekkard> Beuhler??
<cmaloney> I'll eat Matzo, but I don't need it
<cmaloney> I can eat the leavened stuff just the same
<Dekkard> they dont call it the bread of affliction for nothing
<cmaloney> eh, they're actually kinda good. I quite like them
<cmaloney> but if there's a shortage I don't need to eat them
<Dekkard> lol
<cmaloney> kinda like gluten free / vegetarian meals: I'll eat them but if someone needs then I'll be glad to let them have my share
<Dekkard> got 5 boxes, including one from ukraine
<Dekkard> no shortage here
<cmaloney> <3
<Dekkard> i always loose weight @ passover.. sandwiches loose their luster
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-07
<Scary_Guy> @Dekkard happy early Passover https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGXcXFH_CHY :)
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<rick_h_> not too bad.
<rick_h_> Aunt's birthday, working on the new standing desk setup which is nice.
<rick_h_> little crazy at that end of cycle stuff at work wheeee
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Are you still out-and-about?
<jrwren> i saw today's kernel updates and got excited for a sec, i thought it might have the wireguard backports, but it doesn't.
<rick_h_> yea, a bit soon for that unfortunately. Especially in an LTS release
<jrwren> 19.10 tho
<rick_h_> 20.10?
<jrwren> no. i just mean I saw teh update come in 19.10.
 * greg-g yawns
<cmaloney> morning, greg-g
<jrwren> so... debian is having a covid19 hackathon... https://lwn.net/Articles/816280/
<jrwren> cool I htink, so I click the bugs link.
<jrwren> https://blends.debian.org/med/bugs/covid-19.html
<jrwren> top bug on the list is that some package doesn't build on hurd.
<jrwren> oh right, now I remember why I don't care about debian.
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> taking people to task for having fun with their pet projects :P
<greg-g> (and that's the only mention of hurd on the page...)
<greg-g> (and by "top" it's "first alphabetically by package name and only middling importance (yellow))
<greg-g> throw a " up there to balance my quotes
<jrwren> stop belittling my experience with your facts. ;)
<greg-g> <3
<cmaloney> All we are saying is give hurd a chance
<rick_h_> that's ok, every time I've got to chase down a bug because s390x failed I cry inside
<cmaloney> All we are saying is give IBM Mainframes that happen to run Linux a chance
<cmaloney> Also, I'm sure that IBM no longer makes their owk equipment anymore. Do we know who makes s390x en?
<rick_h_> no idea, but IBM pays us to make sure all our stuff works on everything IBM
<jrwren> ugh... so true... i'm not sure which is worse.
<Scary_Guy> https://i.imgur.com/TGYC0Q2.jpeg
<Dekkard> hehe..I actually had an email correspondence with his ild lawyer Eben once
<Dekkard> those were the days
<Dekkard> Actually had one with Andy Tannenbaum too
<Dekkard> he sent me an email like a year later looking for someone for a faculty position
<Dekkard> ???
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-08
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> howdy
<cmaloney> We're meeting with the Ann Arbor CHC group tonight: https://www.meetup.com/Ann-Arbor-Coffee-House-Coders/events/268775964/
<cmaloney> Trying to get the word out. :)
<rick_h_> Nice
<jrwren> https://legacyos.org/hpe-sets-end-date-for-hobbyist-licenses-for-openvms/  almost like you should put your stock in such things eh?
<rick_h_> got it https://twitter.com/mitechie/status/1247891593635348482
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Thank you!
<cmaloney> jrwren: This just reaffirms to me that unless it's an OSI-approved license it's just another rug waiting to be pulled
<jrwren> yup
<cmaloney> Also this feels precisely like the wrong sort of folks to poke with license costs
<cmaloney> I mean, if you're the sort of person who picks up old VAX hardware and runs VMS on it, you're a pretty hardcore fan
<cmaloney> Also, "student licenses" sound like fun, especially with a 6 month renewal
<jrwren> yeah, i don't think DEC, Compaq, or HP was ever accused of doing a good job building their user base outside of enterprise.
<jrwren> you'd think they'd take a clue from MSFT, but nope.
<cmaloney> Well, it's a separate company from HPE
<cmaloney> which, I'm sure that was a bunch of former DEC / CompaQ / HP employees creating a company because HPE couldn't be bothered to support the OS
<cmaloney> But DEC was never cheap when it came to licenses. I remember pricing out the "multi-user license" for a DEC Alpha.
<cmaloney> $10K in 1990s $$
<cmaloney> It was absurd
<cmaloney> The compiler license for these machines was also absurd
<jrwren> i mean over the last 25 yrs.
<jrwren> the last 25 have provided a lot of lessons that whoever owns the IP has chosen to ignore
<jrwren> sure, and then alpha linux came out, and even windows NT for alpha and those were cheaper.
<jrwren> and people wonder why windows servers got such traction. That is a huge part of it right there. They were very cheap by comparison
<cmaloney> Totally
<cmaloney> I mean, you could say that VMS was never a hobbyist OS
<cmaloney> and that providing cheap licenses somehow devalues their production OS prices
<cmaloney> I dunno. It's hard not to feel slightly smug about not having to worry about this. ;)
<jrwren> yup
<rick_h_> cmaloney:  wheeeee
<rick_h_> cmaloney:  do you know any of these folks?
 * rick_h_ looks up wtf "livecode" is
<cmaloney> I know Brian and Paul Vagnozzi
<cmaloney> they come to the Royal Oak CHC meeting
<cmaloney> and I've seen a few of the other folks at the meeting (I made it there in Feb 2019)
<rick_h_> cool
<cmaloney> Yeah, definitely some cross-pollination
<cmaloney> A few folks look familiar from inteviews and what-not, but I'm shit with names
<rick_h_> hah yea ok
<jrwren> i probably know a lot of 'em since I go to AA CHC often enough
<cmaloney> likely
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-09
<cmaloney> pair pair pair pair pair pair pair pair pair programming. :)
<rick_h_> lol
<Scary_Guy> So, I have the strangest issue.  apt/apt-get error out aborting after whatever % and aptitude/synaptic just crash out.  Anyone have any ideas?
<Scary_Guy> I'm not even sure why this is doing this.  I haven't screwed with any repos (before it started, anyway)
<_stink_> disk space?
<Scary_Guy> 7.9g/64g
<_stink_> maybe check dmesg | tail?
<Scary_Guy> I don't see anything weird
<Scary_Guy> Ran it twice, the output didn't change
<Scary_Guy> I'm probably overdue for a reinstall anyway.
<jrwren> i have an install that is 13+yrs old. they are never required.
<Scary_Guy> They are when you fnord things up as much as I do :/
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> is anyone excited over the nvidia hybrid graphics issues being fixed in 5.7?
<rick_h_> yay? /me doesn't own any but always better to support more stuff
<cmaloney> um, sure? :)
<jrwren> whoa... i just got that system76 email for lemur pro... now I really want one.
<cmaloney> Is that a laptop / desktop?
<jrwren> laptop.
<jrwren> 2.2lb
<jrwren> my form factor, much like a macbook air.
<cmaloney> Oh, nice
<cmaloney> I need to replace my X120e at some point
<cmaloney> but damn if that laptop isn't perfect in every other way
<Scary_Guy> I've heard S76 described as "old Apple" so I'm excited to see what they're doing.
<cmaloney> Seriously, if they managed to figure out how to replace the guts of an X120e with a new mobo / more memory I'd be all over it
<cmaloney> also make it a free upgrade and replace my careful sticker collection on the lid
<cmaloney> that's all I ask
<Scary_Guy> Swap lids
<cmaloney> Nah, I want someone in the factory to carefully remove all of the stickers and replace them. ;)
<jrwren> this new lemur pro uses coreboot and open firmware.
<cmaloney> <3
<jrwren> probably the first production laptop with those features that isn't stupid priced.
<jrwren> because it is also very reasonably priced.
<jrwren> you can spec it out with max CPU (4.9Ghz) and max ram (40GB) for $1900 with a 1 TB NMVe
<jrwren> even the default $1099 option is damned sweet.
<jrwren> if I wasn't poor right now I'd totally buy it.
<cmaloney> Yeah, this is really nice
<cmaloney> That's actually not bad for price
<cmaloney> I'm surprised.
<cmaloney> Usually on a System76 laptop I get sticker shock
<cmaloney> But 24GB, i7 with 500GB nvme is under $1600
<cmaloney> not bad at all
 * cmaloney makes contemplating noises
<cmaloney> If we ever have in-person CHC again I'm totally thinking about getting this as a little present for myself
<cmaloney> Disabled ME
<cmaloney> <3
 * cmaloney puts this in my laptop wishlist
<jrwren> yup, going on my wish list... if I have money left over after paying taxes and maybe if I still get a bonus this year.
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> JoDee's got temp full-time at the moment, but academia is weird yo
<cmaloney> so we're saving up everything in case things go weird over the summer / fall
<cmaloney> Plus, quarterly taxes are fun
<cmaloney> "I have $$$ in the bank" *writes check* I have $ in the bank
<cmaloney> .$$ in the bank. ;)
<Scary_Guy> "files list file for package 'libdiscid0:amd64' is missing final newline"  Progress?
<jrwren> yes, becasue that is really easy to fix.
<jrwren> go add the newline
<Scary_Guy> lol
<greg-g> cmaloney: my next laptop I'm going to get a skin so I can save the sticker collection
<jrwren> i like ending a sticker collection and starting new.
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, same, just keep the old skin+stickers on the wall/in a drawer somewhere for old times sake :)
<jrwren> ah, yeah, that would be cool.
<jrwren> you could take a pciture and make a print
<greg-g> I think lmorchard does this
<greg-g> he's a collector extraodinar though
<cmaloney> Yeah, Les is way more into stickers
<cmaloney> I mean, worst case I'll just re-buy the ones that I like on RedBubble
<cmaloney> and collect anew.
<jrwren> buy stickers?!?! :)
<jrwren> i look at my current laptop back and stickers and there is very little love.
<jrwren> I love the one that i bought on my first canonical EU trip from some nursing students in brussles.
<cmaloney> Yes, I buy stickers to support artists
<jrwren> and I love some of hte local businesses that i have stickers, but the rest I dont' really care about
<cmaloney> I've peeled a few off of this laptop
<cmaloney> in part because a) the company changed, b) the site no longer works, or c) needed to make room
<cmaloney> The only one that I'm particularly salty about is O'Reilly.
<cmaloney> but w/e. Happy business-plan-change.
<cmaloney> I'm sure the conference business is really working out right about now
<jrwren> which is good IMO.
<jrwren> i've always prefered teh non-profit community run conferences.
<jrwren> for profit conference business has always been a scam IMO
<cmaloney> I really enjoy this, actually
<cmaloney> I've been to a few panels that I wouldn't otherwise attend
<cmaloney> Like Libreplanet
<jrwren> oh, you've joined some previously-not-virtual events?  cool!
<cmaloney> And yeah, for-profit conferences are kind of a waste
<cmaloney> Yeah, mostly for curiousity to see how they're run, but also because the topics were interesting
<cmaloney> I didn't realize that Zoom had some break-out room functionality. That's pretty nice
<cmaloney> It's a little ham-fisted though
<cmaloney> but when people ask me about these things I have some answers
<jrwren> whoa... TIL: https://rhx.github.io/SwiftGtk/
<jrwren> It's about It's about It's about it's about it's about it's about it's about it's about us
<jrwren> I t ' s   a b o u t   I t ' s   a b o u t   I t ' s   a b o u t   i t ' s   a b o u t   i t ' s   a b o u t   i t ' s   a b o u t   i t ' s   a b o u t   i t ' s   a b o u t   u s
<greg-g> cmaloney: the breakout room feature is, I'm pretty sure, the only thing that's good about Zoom and keeping it in use within Wikimedia. If we can make something else provide that, without making us self-host (because reasons), I think I could get us to switch.
<jrwren> i've been meaning to get a jitsi instance up... but I've been lazy
<rick_h_> yea, there's talk of charming jitsi
<jrwren> charming eh? that's interesting.
<jrwren> here... let me do that for ya: https://hub.docker.com/u/jitsi/  ;)
<rick_h_> hah
<greg-g> [Global Notice] Hello all, this is just a reminder that this weekend, planned Saturday April 11th early UTC afternoon, we will purge unused nicks, accounts and channels. Please see https://freenode.net/news/scheduled-maintenance-services-database-spring-cleaning for details and what you need to do in order to keep your rarely used nicknames.
<greg-g> Time to get those fresh cool nicks you always wanted but they weren't available ^
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Totally getting that CountFloyd nick I always wanted
<cmaloney> (note: totes kidding)
 * rick_h_ is hoping to get rick_h without tails
<greg-g> "greg" is still in use, sadly
<rick_h_> yea, I'm not thinking I'll get "rick"
<rick_h_> though that would be boss
<rick_h_> ugh, this whole "keep doing one job while ramping up on another" is for the birds. /me vents
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Ugh, that really sucks
<jrwren> this isn't hte first time you've done this there, is it?
<jrwren> i'm trying to remember how you transitioned when I was there.
<rick_h_> normally just moved I guess
<rick_h_> it's odd to be on calls for both teams at the same time
<rick_h_> or maybe it was just last time I moved since I had no responsibilities
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-10
<jrwren> anyone know for sure where to put the https://make-linux-fast-again.com line?
<jrwren> ah. https://linuxreviews.org/HOWTO_make_Linux_run_blazing_fast_(again)_on_Intel_CPUs
<jrwren> mitigations=off much shorter in /etc/sysconfig/grub
<jrwren> TIL: you can get 2600 magazine as a kind sub
<jrwren> *kindle sub*
<rick_h_> cool
<cmaloney> That's cool
<cmaloney> now you'll know how to hack your grades
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-11
<Scary_Guy> Just in case anyone was wondering this solved my issue with apt https://blog.mbedded.ninja/programming/operating-systems/linux/programs/apt/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-12
<Dekkard> while I am enjoying the joy of the festival of unlevened bread, I would like to wish ya'all a happy easter.
