#ubuntu-tv 2012-01-09
<mhall119> follow Ubuntu TV on Google+ https://plus.google.com/104659991254860976283
<jussi> Morning all
<jussi> Is it planned a version of the TV unity will come out with precise?
<popey> jussi: no
<jussi> popey: when do you expect it to be available ?
<jussi> in alpha format
<popey> soon
 * AlanBell wonders how much of a working demo it is at CES
<AlanBell> and who it is that likes "in the night garden"
<AlanBell> iggle piggle is the jar jar binks of children's TV
<mcbaine1> mornin' all
<popey> heh AlanBell
<popey> AlanBell: there is some functionality working, but not a huge amount
<popey> code will be available 'soon'
<popey> soon as in hours not weeks
<AlanBell> ok, so stuff does move
<popey> yes
<popey> its not static, its not just a video
<AlanBell> cool
<popey> if I wasn't in Budapest I'd offer for you to come over to my house to see it :D
<dmj726> popey: this is great news!
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-tv to: Welcome to #ubuntu-tv | http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tv | http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UbuntuTV | http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UbuntuTV-Issues | This channel is logged to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | http://ubuntu.com/tv | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq_WaOLjdyQ
<MobileDruif> I hope Canonical has had a good laugh about everyone in this channel thinking of having any influence. It's a shame that everything is developed already in secrecy
<AlanBell> nice
<AlanBell> MobileDruif: relax
<AlanBell> it isn't already developed in secrecy
<MobileDruif> At least that's my idea of how it went
<MobileDruif> AlanBell: tell me how I *should* look at the current developments? (Developments being the announcements made at CES/the released code?)
<MobileDruif> Can you*
<mhall119> did everyone follow https://plus.google.com/104659991254860976283 yet?
<MobileDruif> mhall119: I do
<daker> mhall119, the images are real or just mockups ?
<mhall119> daker: a real demo
<mhall119> daker: you can watch the video at http://www.ubuntu.com/tv
<MobileDruif> daker: newest omgubuntu article apparently has a vid
<MobileDruif> Haha
<daker> mhall119, sorry but they fail at product launch!
<MobileDruif> Anyhow, anyone capable of explaining the situation to me?
<daker> mhall119, see the difference http://www.google.com/tv/
<mhall119> daker: they're not pitching it to consumers, they're pitching it to manufacturers
<daker> it's the same,you are launching a product ã
<daker> mhall119, it will work on my 32" LG LCD-TV ?
<MobileDruif> Does it have 2GB of disk space and 1GB of RAM?
<daker> the TV ?
<MobileDruif> Yeah, what else?
<daker> it depends on the OEM
<MobileDruif> http://www.ubuntu.com/tv/features-and-specs
<mhall119> code is up: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tv
<mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Contributing
<jussi> mhall119: yay!
<jussi> mhall119: are there packages yet?
<jussi> ie. a ppa?
<mhall119> jussi: not that I see
<jussi> :(
<mhall119> jussi: there wasn't even a bzr branch last night
<jussi> mhall119: yeah, I just figured whoever wrote that code mightve actually packaged it also
<mhall119> jussi: I can ask around, but since they're at CES I may not get a response
<jussi> mhall119: ok
<jussi> branch wont check out for me :/
<jussi> Permission denied (publickey).
<jussi> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
<mhall119> weird, let me try
<jussi> popey: also, you need to update the entry message: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots (re: ubuntulog)
<mhall119> jussi: worked for me, maybe it was just a connection issue?
<spikeb> is there a FAQ for ubuntu tv yet?
<jussi> mhall119: no, Ive tried several times and the message says something about pubkey
<mhall119> yeah, that's an ssh error...
<mhall119> have you tried bzr launchpad-login?
<jussi> I hadnt, but just did, returns my user (jussi01) and then the other thing fails
<jussi> mhall119: its not somehow limited to employees is it?
<mhall119> jussi: launchpad says it's public
<jussi> hrm
<jussi> wonder whats happening there.
<jussi> conspiricy, Ive been blocked!!! :P
<mhall119> do you have your ssh pubkey on launchpad?
<jussi> hrm, this is the work machine, lemme check.
<mhall119> jussi: also, try viewing http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tv/ubuntutv/trunk/files
<jussi> ahh bollocks, this machine isnt on LP. lemme upload it.
<jussi> and yeah, browsing works
<jussi> mhall119: right, works now. thanks for the troubleshooting :)
<mhall119> np
<mhall119> I just had to bribe an official to look the other way so I could let you in on the conspiracy ;)
<jussi> lol
<jussi> ooh, theres a debian folder there...
<MobileDruif> Haha
<jussi> I wonder if we can stick this into a PPA some how... ?
<mhall119> worth a shot
<MobileDruif> Should be doable
<MobileDruif> It's already on lp right?
<jussi> yup
<jussi> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tv
<MobileDruif> Can't it be put in a ppa from that page?
<spikeb> ooh, a video lens for unity. cool.
<MobileDruif> Might be nice
<mhall119> MobileDruif: PPAs are only for people and teams
<MobileDruif> And ubuntu-tv isn't a team?
<mhall119> oh, you're right
 * mhall119 hasn't had his morning coffee yet
<mhall119> then yes, we could make a ppa for the team and host packages there
 * MobileDruif neither
<MobileDruif> ;D
 * jussi smiles at mhall119
 * MobileDruif gives mhall119 his morning coffee ;)
 * jussi waits for mhall119 to provide the ppa line and an eta for packages built :D
<jussi> anyways, local copy building now
<jussi> also: sudo apt-get install debhelper dh-translations cmake pkg-config libqt4-dev libqt4-opengl-dev libglib2.0-dev libwnck-3-dev libpango1.0-dev libqtgconf-dev libdconf-qt-dev libqtbamf-dev libqtdee-dev libdbusmenu-qt-dev libx11-dev libindicator3-dev libgtk-3-dev libutouch-geis-dev libstartup-notification0-dev libunity-core-4.0-dev libnux-1.0-dev libxi-dev
<jussi> theres the build deps for it on one line ;)
<MobileDruif> Ghehe
<jussi> mhall119: also, would be nice to have the bug tracker, translations, blueprints and answers opened for this
<MobileDruif> Oeh, translations :D
<MobileDruif> We already had a request for that :P
<sladen> hello people
<sladen> seems the CES thing has hit the interwebs
<sladen> MobileDruif: and what makes you think you haven't or are not having an influence?
<dmj726> Actually, it looks like a lot of the ideas discussed in this channel and mailing list have been taken into consideration
 * jussi waves to sladen
<jussi> sladen: when are you coming to visit me again ?
<sladen> jussi: remember that time I came up there (in a rush, admittedly), bumped into the son of the person I'd gone to visit in Muhos
<dmj726> sladen: might I be accurate on that?  Otherwise there seems to have been a lot of ideas come up with independently
<MobileDruif> That might be so, but still: because everything code-wise was developed without any info one way our the other made me feel left out
<sladen> jussi: shall be back for Sauna at some point.  Is it snowing there?
<dmj726> MobileDruif: I can understand where you're coming from there
<MobileDruif> Or*
<dmj726> definitely digging the design though
<sladen> MobileDruif: what you're seeing is a prototype/mockup/test-framework.  It will then be possible to take those design ideas, interate/discuss/evolve them more easily now there's something public and demoable and work on the implementation itself
<sladen> MobileDruif: if you look around this channel there are people like Kaleo who is suddenly very relieved and jumping for joy when I saw him a few minutes ago
<sladen> dmj726: yes, there are people listening in the channel even if they've not been able to say much on certain subjects
<dmj726> definitely glad to see the second screen and third party applications aspects included
<MobileDruif> The last few months have been eerily quiet. We've asked for more direction from above, but nothing was given. Except Marks blog-post saying we had some great ideas (even referring to our feature list), have we been stagnant. I think it's a shame that it's only been going in one-direction. I'm just letting my frustrations speak now.
<MobileDruif> I'm not one to hold a grudge, so make a clean slate and continue with this great project
<dmj726> Yeah, I think a lot of us would like to get feedback on what Canonical people are thinking and also start hacking on the platform ourselves
<dmj726> this release definitely helps on that front
<MobileDruif> sladen: I hope you understand where I'm coming from
<jussi> sladen: excellent. and yes, we have snow (~50cm) but no, its not snowing currently
<sladen> MobileDruif: yes, the CES deadline, was a bit fixed.  Things were focused on getting something (based on the ideas at UDS, and since) ready for CES.  Which is a pretty short amount of time (2 months since end of UDS, of which the holiday eat quite a chunk)
<jussi> so, quick question for those in the know. Ive made this and installed it, is it now a selection from login? or?
<sladen> jussi: what's "this" ?
<sladen> jussi: links, URLs, ?
 * jussi points to scroll back and adds:  https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tv
<MobileDruif> Code on the ubuntu-tv lp sladen
 * jussi says meh and goes to try
<Kaleo> MobileDruif: hi!
<Kaleo> hi others!
<MobileDruif> Kaleo: Aloha :)
<Kaleo> MobileDruif: I am sorry the code was private for a few weeks
<Kaleo> MobileDruif: it's kind of an experiment thing
<mhall119> wow, the channel is starting to get busy now!
<MobileDruif> ...and the conversation?
<jussi> meh, doesnt seem to be there :(
<jussi> Kaleo: how do I start it?
<Kaleo> MobileDruif: and I also am sorry about the lack of presence from me here
<Kaleo> MobileDruif: the reason is very plain: working extremely hard for a few weeks
<Kaleo> MobileDruif: (I had my girlfriend complaining every day..)
<MobileDruif> Kaleo: sorry to hear that your girlfriend complained everyday
<Kaleo> MobileDruif: she is relieved now :)
<sladen> ahem
<MobileDruif> Woops, wrong button
<Kaleo> MobileDruif: :)
<jussi> so seriously, no one can tell me how to start it?
<jussi> Kaleo: mhall119 ?
<Kaleo> jussi: I can!
<jussi> Kaleo: please do! :D
<Kaleo> jussi: though it is in the wiki no?
<jussi> Kaleo: Ive compiled (cmake, make make install). what now?
<jussi> Kaleo: which wiki where?
<Kaleo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Contributing
<Kaleo> there :)
<jussi> the readme was very vague.  :(
<Kaleo> does that help?
<MobileDruif> jussi: /Contributing I believe
<jussi> Kaleo: Im reading now. perhaps worth adding that url into the readme file?
<jussi> also, what does ~s do in the bzr command?
<Saviq> jussi, it's not an option - it's just the name of the team
<MobileDruif> It's gonna be merged with unity-2d
<MobileDruif> ?
<jussi> oh :(
<MobileDruif> Saviq: I see you're hard at work with the wiki pages?
<jussi> so... what the difference in code from  bzr branch "lp:~ubuntu-tv/ubuntutv/trunk" and "bzr branch lp:~s-team/ubuntutv/trunk" if any?
<Saviq> jussi, we just had to move the code, sorry for that
<Saviq> there is no ~ubuntu-tv/ubuntutv/{trunk,unity-lens-video} anymore
<jussi> oh, so I grabbed before it was moved then.
<jussi> there si no difference in code though?
<sladen> jussi: the 's-team' is a bit like the 'a-team', just an abbreviation of something else
<Saviq> jussi, just go `bzr pull --remember ~s-team/ubuntutv/trunk` there
<mhall119> Kaleo: Saviq: can we get an actual LP project for this?
<jussi> Saviq: thanks
<Saviq> mhall119, most of it will get merged back into unity-2d
<Saviq> mhall119, and the project is simply "ubuntutv"
<mhall119> Saviq: ok
<mhall119> thanks
<Saviq> we couldn't connect lp:ubuntutv yet, we'll do that soon
<MobileDruif> Can there be anything said about ubuntu phone now your all chatty again?
<sladen> MobileDruif: you could try asking in #ubuntu-phone
<sladen> ;-)
<Kaleo> MobileDruif: the phone is definitely not my arena :)
<Kaleo> MobileDruif: I would guess that this would be the last platform we tackme
<Kaleo> tackle
<Kaleo> MobileDruif: I feel like we have so much to get on with already
<jussi> Kaleo: strange question here. If Im running kde can I just run it?  or do I need to be running metacity?
<Kaleo> jussi: it should be fine
<Kaleo> jussi: mileage may vary performance wise depending on your window manage
<Kaleo> rr
<jussi> ok, lemme try it :)
<Kaleo> MobileDruif: like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/MergePlan
<Kaleo> MobileDruif: document that got created 5 minutes ago :)
<MobileDruif> I know ;)
<MobileDruif> I'm subscribed to every page subsequent of UbuntuTV, so I also get notified about new pages
<Saviq> nerochiaro, plan is great
<nerochiaro> Saviq: Kaleo: any ideas on the TODOs that are in there ?
<nerochiaro> i suppose i can start tackling point #1 anyway
<nerochiaro> Saviq: Kaleo: how do we go review-wise for this work ?
<Saviq> we got lp:ubuntutv
<jussi> Kaleo: seems it didnt work. loaded my normal unity over the top of kde (I have unity installed here as an alternate)
<tsdgeos> jussi: you probably need to shut-down plasma-desktop
<jussi> ok, can I run this from a tty ?
<nerochiaro> you should be able to
<jussi> ok, lemme try that
<Saviq> jussi, what does `gsettings get com.canonical.Unity2d form-factor` say?
<mhall119> Saviq: do you guys have it doing form-factor auto-detection to determine what variant of Unity to run?
<Saviq> mhall119, not yet
<Saviq> jussi, actually make that `dconf read /com/canonical/unity-2d/form-factor`
<MobileDruif> Anyhow I'm going offline, battery is getting low
<jussi> Saviq: returns nothing
<jussi> anyways, Im off now. 9 months pregnant wife waiting for me at home ;)
<jussi> please leave me messages tho
<sladen> jussi: wow.  Best wishes for all 2 (or 3 if it arrives) of you
<Saviq> jussi, did you follow the point about setting that dconf key?
<Saviq> anyone else managed to run it? or - even more interesting - did not manage to run it for some reason?
<daker> hello Kaleo
<Saviq> daker, he's not here right now
<daker> ã
<mhall119> Kaleo: Saviq: do we have any information about the remote control for Ubuntu TV?
<rsalveti> Kaleo: hey, first issue I saw at the instructions, you're using xbmc 10 to create the metadata
<rsalveti> we're using the 11 release, that we have running on arm
<rsalveti> they should be compatible, but not fully sure
<Saviq> rsalveti, they are
<jussi> Saviq: I did run it. it returned nothing.
<rsalveti> Saviq: great
<jussi> Saviq: In anycase, Im off to the hospital with the wife - hopefully when I return there will be 3 of us :D
<Saviq> jussi, awesome!
 * jussi hugs Saviq and runs off
<mhall119> jussi: congrats!
<jussi> mhall119: not yet! :D
<mhall119> jussi: I thought you were gone, assumed you'd get that after :)
<jussi> mhall119: Im jusyt leaving :P
<mhall119> jussi: remember to breath, and don't lock your knees
<mhall119> the rest is up to her ;)
<jussi> lol
<MrChrisDruif> Aloha
<maxolasersquad> Will/can Ubuntu-TV handle ISOs?
<dmj726> maxolasersquad: my guess would be yes either out of the box or with additional software installed
<maxolasersquad> Cool, I've been ripping my DVDs since my kids like to scratch them up.
<maxolasersquad> Ripping to ISO that is.
<dmj726> I'm not from Canonical
<dmj726> but they would have to prevent installation of medibuntu and vlc to stop the ability to play ISOs
<dmj726> My guess is that it will behave like regular Ubuntu with a special UI
<tgm4883> dmj726, AFAIK, it's going to be Unity 2d
<dmj726> tgm4883: basically the backend internals will most likely be little changed
<dmj726> so things like gstreamer and so forth
<nerochiaro> Saviq: do you know if revision 824 from lp:unity-2d is essentially the same as revision 848 from the shell branch ? ("make scrollbar abstract" is the title of the commits).It looks like they are the same to me.
<nerochiaro> Saviq: rev 872 also seems to do again the same thing too
<nerochiaro> Saviq: however in trunk the scrollbar ends up in libunity-2d while il the shell branch it ends up in shell/common. what's the right place in the end ?
<popey> hi pleia2
<pleia2> hello
<tgm4883> -hi
<sladen> hello pleia2
<sladen> pleia2: greetings from Buda, or is it pest
<nerochiaro> or both
<pleia2> depends on the side of the river :)
<popey> sladen: decided what to do for food?
<sladen> popey: nope
<sladen> popey: are you still hanging around?
<sladen> popey: and are you sitll going to be there in 5 minutes?
<popey> i am in my room
<popey> sladen: ping me before you go out
<sladen> popey: okay, hat, coat etc
<popey> sladen: 5 mins, see you in reception
<rsalveti> Saviq: Kaleo: unfortunately the current qtmobility is using video texturing just for GL, not for GLES
<rsalveti> but luckily qtmobility 1.2 also has GLES support, but specifically to maemo 6 atm
<rsalveti> because of the proprietary extensions
<rsalveti> I'm discussing that with robclark, as he created one extension we currently use at XBMC, to see if we can get it to work with latest qtmobility and panda
<Saviq> nerochiaro, in the end - shell/common of course
<Saviq> but we didn't have that common place before
<Saviq> and yes, they're basically the same thing, one done upstream, the other just for tv
<Saviq> rsalveti, cool
<MrChrisDruif> Saviq; I'm missing the discussion?
<Saviq> MrChrisDruif, I'm just reading the backlog, sorry :)
<nerochiaro> Saviq: ok, i'll keep that in mind tomorrow. there are a few things to fix because the merge moves it to libunity2dprivate so i'll have to revert that
<Saviq> nerochiaro, yeah
<MrChrisDruif> Ghehe
 * MrChrisDruif doesn't have backlog
<Saviq> poor MrChrisDruif ;)
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah, I'm missing out ^_^
<Guus-> Is there anyone in here to who I could submit an idea?
<rsalveti> Kaleo: http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Always-Innovating-HDMI-Dongle
<rsalveti> similar with a pandaboard
<rsalveti> would be nice and probably easy to have ubuntu tv running on it :-)
#ubuntu-tv 2012-01-10
<Saviq> Guus-, it's best to write to join https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tv and write to the mailing list there
<davilla> I'm very confused by this statement on the contributors page "Myth TV and XBMC are popular open-source TV projects, particularly in the Ubuntu community. Weâre very pleased to collaborate with members of both communities, enhancing the quality of back-end code that is shared between projects." As a mainline XBMC dev, 1st that I've heard of any collaboration. None of the other XBMC devs know anything about this either.
<davilla> What gives ?
<wagnerrp> davilla: heh... i was thinking the same thing
<wagnerrp> there was some group discussion on irc we were all invited to late last october
<davilla> did you go ?
<wagnerrp> and one i see two of the mythbuntu guys in here (one has been active on their mailing list)
<wagnerrp> no, didnt make it, they mentioned it in our dev channel shortly before it happened, the day ove
<wagnerrp> *of
<davilla> while the statement is flattering, it's quite misleading to the open source community at large.
<mrand> Maybe it's supposed to be future tense... i.e., they intend on collaborating.
<davilla> hehe, I think they know enough of the english lang to know the difference.
<wagnerrp> ah, make that three
<wagnerrp> there was discussion on the list about using mythbackend to provide their PVR capability, but i havent had a chance to look through the code to see if that went anywhere
<davilla> says gstreamer based, while we a gst codec working, it's pretty raw right now.
<wagnerrp> its likely gstreamer based because its qt based
<wagnerrp> the two are pretty closely tied together
<davilla> there is an internal gstplayer for embedded but that's not been made public yet.
<davilla> "There are no branches related to Ubuntu TV in Launchpad today."
<davilla> ok, where's the code ?
<Kaleo> davilla: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Contributing
<Kaleo> davilla: the wording seems a bit confusing
<wagnerrp> or you can browse... http://bazaar.launchpad.net/!s-team/ubuntutv/trunk/files
<Kaleo> davilla: but I am french, so not too sure
<wagnerrp> make that... http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~s-team/ubuntutv/trunk/files
<Kaleo> davilla: the intention is "we would love collaborating whenever possible/makes sense"
<davilla> very, I'm native english speaker and I find it confusing
<Kaleo> davilla: I am sorry about that (I am one of the developers)
<davilla> ahh,
<davilla> Can you correct it please.
<Kaleo> davilla, wagnerrp: nice to meet you!
<Kaleo> davilla: I can definitely try to find out who writes these things :)
<wagnerrp> davilla: looks like they use your metadata processor, i assume to generate your XML-based nfo files
<Kaleo> wagnerrp: we did yep
<Kaleo> wagnerrp: but it's offline
<Kaleo> wagnerrp: more to demonstrate the concept
<wagnerrp> ah
<Kaleo> wagnerrp: thanks a lot by the way
<Kaleo> (the concept of the UI)
<Kaleo> (not the concept of the metadata processor=
<wagnerrp> huh?
<wagnerrp> i havent done much of anything in regards to UI work
<wagnerrp> anything recent UI related in mythtv, you would be looking for Stuart Morgan, or possibly Robert McNamara
<Kaleo> wagnerrp: sorry, there was a misunderstanding
<Kaleo> wagnerrp: I was saying thank you for the great metadata processor; but now I realised that you are not part of XBMC, right?
<wagnerrp> no, mythtv
<Kaleo> wagnerrp: sorry
<Kaleo> davilla: thanks!
<wagnerrp> heh
<davilla> sry wagnerrp :)
<Kaleo> wagnerrp, davilla: guys, it's really really late for me; I need to sleep
<Kaleo> if you have a last comment/question for me, you have 1 minute :)
<wagnerrp> 1AM? the night is still so young!
<Kaleo> davilla: I'll figure out to have the wording right
<Kaleo> wagnerrp: 2am
<Kaleo> wagnerrp: and I slept only 2 hours last night...
<davilla> np Kaleo, get some sleep.
<Kaleo> davilla: cheers
<wagnerrp> hmm... i never can remember if its 5 or 6... stupid DST
<wagnerrp> night
<Kaleo> wagnerrp: thanks
 * davilla goes back to beating up arm boxes.
<wagnerrp> Kaleo: just something of note, if youre using XBMC's metadata grabber system, youre also using their scripts, and accessing the same sites
<wagnerrp> sites like themoviedb.org are licensed for non-commercial use only
<wagnerrp> your stuff is open source, but you also plan to sell a product based off of it
<wagnerrp> i dont know how that would line up with those kinds of sources, or if you would need to license it from some other provider such as Tribune
<sladen> Kaleo: see you at 9am, sharp ;-)   Night night all
<GeekShadow> oh channel for tuvalu
<GeekShadow> :D
<GeekShadow> is there iso yet to test ubuntu tv ?
<L-----D> GeekShadow, I just about to ask the same question?
<davilla> ahh, yes. we have our own keys for some of those sites.
<wagnerrp> there is that too, at least TMDB and TTVDB both have specific keys intended for use with single applications
<L-----D> so is there any code/release? or we still at the mockup stage
<davilla> wagnerrp: did you see the new broadcom device, takes mpeg2, transcodes to h264 for streaming
<wagnerrp> havent been paying much attention to broadcom since they pretty much abandoned linux support for the crystalhd
<davilla> some sort of atsc -> h264 converter
<wagnerrp> good waste of a bunch of Jarod Wilson's time
<davilla> I'd say the linux community abandoned it :)
<davilla> we could never get anyone else interested in working on it.
<wagnerrp> jarod actually wrote the bulk of the linux driver under contract
<wagnerrp> and between him and mark, they intended to maintain support in mythtv
<davilla> wrong
<davilla> broadcom did the bulk, jarod and I brought it up to current kernel and cleansed it.
<wagnerrp> ah
<wagnerrp> didnt realize you were involved in that
<davilla> I'm the one that contacted broadcom about it and talked jarod into helping me.
<davilla> we spent 4 months going round and round with broadcom legal :)
<wagnerrp> is that the same chip the elgato people use? or something new?
<wagnerrp> i know they have some hardware transcoder that fits in a USB stick
<davilla> I really need to bring the osx driver/lib up to date with the current code.
<davilla> nah, different thing, crystalhd only does decode.
<wagnerrp> no, this new broadcom transcoder you just mentioned
<davilla> humm, this is new.
<davilla> not seen any product using it yet, just chipset specs.
<davilla> maybe ces will show some vapor :) lol
<wagnerrp> the elgato thing is almost three years old, turbo.264
<wagnerrp> so definitely not the same thing
<davilla> yea, that's what that thing was called, worked sort of ok... until i7's came along.
<wagnerrp> because the i7 can do software transcodes faster than it? or because of the quicksync stuff?
<davilla> yes, i7 and raw sw transcode
<davilla> here's backstory on crystalhd http://wilsonet.com/?p=14
<davilla> support for it went into ffmpeg a month or so ago. libav hates hw decoder and will not backport.
<wagnerrp> hard to believe it was a year ago all that went down
<wagnerrp> we still havent decided which to go with for our next sync
<davilla> we sync again after Eden goes out, ffmpeg again. we have a few devs that are also ffmpeg devs so.. omygod we are actually getting patches into it.
<davilla> still, it's a painful process
<wagnerrp> ive never checked, do you run your own internal copy (as we do) or try to link up to whatever is on the system?
<davilla> we can do either
<wagnerrp> our ffmpeg guy was Janne, and hes been pretty much absent for the past year
<davilla> --external-ffmpeg in configure switches from internal to external
<L-----D> hey, is there any document about write a app/plugin for UTV?
<davilla> of course, the external would have none of our patches, we carry 61 patches now. ouch.
<davilla> when we sync again, that drops in half
<wagnerrp> L-----D: i dont think theres much beyond what you see here (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV) and what you can glean from reading the source itself
<wagnerrp> weve got a big chunk of stuff we have to deal with each sync for proper playback of digital broadcasts, and because we still carry around NUVs
<wagnerrp> plus theres the whole issue our build system is built around ffmpeg's
<L-----D> using ffmpeg as video player's backend?
<wagnerrp> L-----D: independent, discussion of mythtv and xbmc
<wagnerrp> ubuntutv's player is currently gstreamer derived
<L-----D> why should utv care about xbmc?
<davilla> L-----D: guess where they get metadata from ?
<wagnerrp> because they currently say it is based off them... http://www.ubuntu.com/tv/contributors
<L-----D> xbmc's media library is not extendable, I really hope utv can write its own library and metadata providers
<davilla> see step 2 -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Contributing
<L-----D> yes, i saw it
<wagnerrp> you can very easily write new grabber scripts for XBMC
<wagnerrp> well... very easily for anyone who knows their way around text parsing and xml
<L-----D> well, I switched from XBMC to MediaPortal mostly because XBMC's library it not designed to be shared between TV sets
<davilla> that's changed now, you can use mysql to share databases.
<wagnerrp> thats a completely different issue from not being extendable
<wagnerrp> havent you had a shared database for years now?
<davilla> not seamless I have to admit.
<davilla> but it's easy to do.
<davilla> even atv2 users can do it :) and we have lots of those running a single db with multiple atv2s.
<L-----D> davilla, last time I looked into XBMC (years ago) try to connect XBMC to my UPnP/DLNA media server without success
 * tgm4883 sighs
<davilla> that was years ago :) much different now
<tgm4883> I hate that
<tgm4883> "last time I looked into X (years ago)"
<tgm4883> do people not realize that things change, and in the open source world, usually at a very fast pace?
<wagnerrp> last time i looked into video playback on linux 10 years ago, Matrox was the way to go
<davilla> hahaha
<davilla> last time I looked 30 years ago, papertape was the best storage medium
<wagnerrp> not sure why you would want to use upnp anyway when you could just mount over nfs and get the benefit of all that native metadata
<L-----D> wagnerrp, because I want the same center server for both clients: XBMC XBox360 PS3 WMP
<wagnerrp> so use upnp for the rest, and give xbmc direct access so it can use all of its fancy features
<L-----D> well, if we can re-use most part of XBMC, we may just need a XBMC skin, what will be the difference between UTV and XBMC?
<wagnerrp> right now, they are completely different applications
<wagnerrp> the only thing being reused currently is an external scanner for metadata, that has to be run manually by the user
<wagnerrp> its a temporary thing theyve been using for testing to get something to play around with in the UI
<L-----D> wagnerrp, I've already wrote a java app act as UPnP Media Server also include media library and metadata grabber, that's why I want to connect UPnP to XBMC
<L-----D> wagnerrp, what about unity 3d?
<wagnerrp> honestly, i dont even know what that is, im not an ubuntu user
<L-----D> O_O I though you're one of the ubuntu tv dev teams
<davilla> run wagnerrp run fast and far :)
<wagnerrp> no, as mentioned, davilla and i are here because xbmc and mythtv were listed as cooperating to make ubuntu tv happen
<wagnerrp> being part of xbmc and mythtv, respectively, that was the first we had heard of such
<L-----D> ;D
<wagnerrp> they are temporarily using xbmc's metadata stuff
<L-----D> yes, and a file system based library
<wagnerrp> and mythtv... well i dont know what role we play, but some of the mythbuntu guys are around here working on it
<L-----D> to provide dvb/atsc playback?
<wagnerrp> that would be recording rather, if that
<L-----D> davilla, is XBMC skin system changed is past days?
<wagnerrp> myth's frontend is not suited for anything you may want to stuff inside a tv
<davilla> if last time you looked was several years ago, yes.
<L-----D> wagnerrp, I though UTV won't support recording directly from what I read on the mail list
<L-----D> davilla, I was thought to write a media center my own, since MediaPortal V2 can't reach a stable release for years
<davilla> confluence (horizontal) is the current native skin, touched for iOS.
<L-----D> davilla, I've trid to clone the XMBC video player to provided UPnP connect to my library
<L-----D> davilla, but it is too difficut for me, since I'm not a CPP developer
<davilla> L-----D: the internal player (dvdplayer) is very complicated, it's much easier to use that API and do a new one. we do that for embedded boxes like sigma, cex41xx and raspberry-pi.
<davilla> we also have a gstreamer based one but that's not public yet.
<wagnerrp> you have support for sigmadesigns stuff? i didnt realize they ever opened their specs such that anyone could develop one
<davilla> UPnP should work fine now.
<davilla> wagnerrp: yes, it should go public in another month or so.
<L-----D> davilla, last time I saw XMBC use GeeXbox upnp library, which discontinued
<L-----D> davilla, do you have your own UPnP library now?
<davilla> L-----D: not sure what's used, not my area of code.
<L-----D> davilla, and access file share through UPnP won't enough, it also need access custom metadata from UPnP server
<kieppie> nice work, guys!
<davilla> wagnerrp: there's a pull/req pending for directfb support, that came from sigma work as it's directfb based.
<kieppie> think I'll give it a stab alongside my XBMC system
<wagnerrp> how do you resolve that sort of stuff with the rest of your UI? i thought it required everything be OpenGL
<davilla> sigma renders video to separate video plane, gl/gles does not even see it. we added a bypass mode so gl/gles renderer pretends but really gets out of the way.
<L-----D> davilla, what language can i use to dev a plugin now
<davilla> so gl/gles is on top of video so we just punch a hole for video and any gl/gles overlays just work.
<davilla> L-----D: python
<davilla> we do same for most embedded as they also render video from hw decoders on separate video plane.
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: Saviq: do we have any plan to try to keep qml files out of libunity2dprivate (like we did for the Scrollbar) ? there's still GnomeBackground in there
<Saviq> nerochiaro, I don't think we can fix that yet
<Saviq> 'cause the spread and the launcher uses that
<nerochiaro> Saviq: ah, i think you're right
<nerochiaro> Saviq: well, spread is really the issue
<Saviq> yup
<nerochiaro> Saviq: Kaleo: mergin from trunk there are a bunch of things that expect UnityCore to be version 5, how do I get it ?
<tsdgeos> nerochiaro: sent you a mail gerry sent me with the instructions
<nerochiaro> tsdgeos: thanks
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: you removed from LauncherClient the only remaining piece of code it still had in it, and left only an empty class there in libunity2dprivate. Any specific reason for not removing the whole class entirely ?
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: nope
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: knock yourself out
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: i'll add it to the TODO for when i finish the merge
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: cheers
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: was just curious about why you didn't just do it yourself. just lazy ? ;)
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: rush and co
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: ok, one more thing: the launcher in the shell branch is already up to date to the modifications you have done in rev 826 in trunk titled "[launcher][dash] Resolved some discrepancies in layout with design: - launcher width ..."
<nerochiaro> ?
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: I don't know
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: 90% sure yes
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: that was my guess too, but i don't know the rationale of these changes so i'm not sure how to check anyway
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: i'll just go with assuming it's already done and then you can check in the end if it's allright
<nerochiaro> will be easy to fix if it's not
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: Saviq: does any of you know why after following the instructions to install the unity-team/staging ppa and all the new packages from it I still get this: https://pastebin.canonical.com/57929/ (note the path to the icon for the lens. should not be mentioning version 4 anymore, since it's not installed)
<daker> is there any wiki page that explains how to use it on a TV ?
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: sounds like a bug in the lens; check with the unity devs
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: all lenses do that. they also missing the new v5 DBUS properties from what i can see
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: there don't seem to be any of the usual suspects around in irc (kamstrup, didrocks), can you fetch someone live around there ?
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: who did the API update?
<Kaleo> (to v5)
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: gerry it seems
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: and approved by kamstrup, that's why i was looking for him (also he's the guy that works most on lenses AFAIK)
<L-----D> hi, do I need to learn QML/Qt to develop app for UTV?
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: no, the change in the unity core PAI
<Kaleo> API
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: not in Unity 2D
<Kaleo> L-----D: there is no set plan for that yet
<L-----D> or any app will do, just like lanuch app from Unity desktop
<Kaleo> L-----D: but that's definitely a good option
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: ah, i don't know, need to check
<Kaleo> L-----D: desktop apps are not meant to run there
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: didn't look into unity core at all
<Kaleo> L-----D: their UIs are not suited for a TV
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: that's the change
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: why do you ask who made it ?
<L-----D> Kaleo, yes, I know, but I have a java app which UI designed for 10" interface
<L-----D> Kaleo, will it worked in UTV?
<Kaleo> L-----D: for now, yes
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: you are asking me to ping somebody
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: better if I ping the right person
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: ok, let me check then
<L-----D> Kaleo, what about remote controller?
<Kaleo> L-----D: what about it?
<Kaleo> L-----D: we don't do anything special with them so far
<Kaleo> L-----D: your UI should support remote control type of navigation
<L-----D> Kaleo, I thought remote controller (like LIRC based) will be handled by UTV, like mapping to key event or something
<L-----D> it not seems a function should be handled by independent application
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: the changes on that stuff that breaks are by michal hruby, approved by kamstrup
<Saviq> L-----D, remote controls are becoming standard HID devices
<Saviq> L-----D, LIRC will only be useful for very weird remotes very soon
<Saviq> most standard stuff (like the mce, for example) you just plug in and use right now
<Saviq> it will just send XF86Play etc.
<L-----D> Saviq, I use mce remote on windows, but I don't know it also works on ubuntu :o
<Saviq> L-----D, of course it does
<Saviq> just plug it in
<Saviq> no LIRC required
<Saviq> L-----D, you seem to have been trying a lot of stuff a long time ago
<Saviq> time to update your experiences :)
<MrChrisDruif> A Ubuntu TV PPA?
<popey> is that a question ?
<MrChrisDruif> Nope, not really. I just spotted the omg article
<popey> cool
<MrChrisDruif> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/how-to-install-ubuntu-tv-right-now-via-ppa/
<dmj726> just saw that myself
<Saviq> you don't need the GSETTINGS_SCHEMA_DIR= though
<MrChrisDruif> Nope?
<sladen> rsalveti: kudos for the good read in your  http://rsalveti.wordpress.com/2012/01/10/ubuntu-tv-ui-at-pandaboard-and-next-steps/  post
<Saviq> MrChrisDruif, it was only required when running uninstalled
<Saviq> rsalveti, yeah, good stuff!
<Saviq> and the command is wrong, it should be unity-2d-shell, not unity-shell-2d
<MrChrisDruif> Saviq; "Mathieu Comandon" also noticed that
<MrChrisDruif> About the wrong command
<MrChrisDruif> Why is the unity-2d package updated and not a new package installed, like ubuntu-tv ?
<MrChrisDruif> Creating a new session instead of replacing an other session?
<hakermania> Hello. I haven't completely understood what Ubuntu TV is... Is it an OS that will run on TVs being sold by Canonical? Is it an OS for PCs that is especially designed for video viewing? Is it an OS for TVs that will be sold to large companies like LG? What is it? Thanks!
<mhall119> Saviq: is there an 'official' PPA for the current Ubuntu TV?
<mhall119> hakermania: it's Ubuntu designed to be embedded into TVs by large companies like LG
<mhall119> hakermania: it's also a platform designed to be targetted by content providers like Netflix
<mhall119> hakermania: but it's still something you can install on your desktop to play local media files on your TV
<nerochiaro> mhall119: AFAIK there's no official ppa yet, but maybe this can help: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/how-to-install-ubuntu-tv-right-now-via-ppa/
<hakermania> mhall119, thanks a lot :D
<mhall119> nerochiaro: I saw that, I just don't want to link people to random PPAs, it breaks the whole security model of using repositories
<nerochiaro> mhall119: you'll have to go from source then, i don't think there's any other alternative for now. again, AFAIK
<mhall119> ok
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: ok
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: ok ?
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: I'll make him be on IRC
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: mhr3 on IRC
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: please see if he can ping me when he comes in, i don't have joins displayed in irc
<davilla> morning Kaleo, sleep well :)
<Kaleo> davilla: ;)
<mwcampbell> Will Ubuntu TV include a web browser?
<mwcampbell> My guess is that web browsing would be cumbersome with a 10-foot interface.
<popey> mwcampbell: it probably will actually
<mhall119> mwcampbell: both, yes
<mwcampbell> Any idea which browser is more likely to be used?
<popey> no, we haven't evaluated that yet
<popey> and it may not even be a full browser in the usual sense
<mhall119> it would be nice if there was a browser designed to be used through a remote control
<mhall119> like how we're seeing browsers designed for touch interfaces
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: all the stuff from trunk now mereged into the shell branch. moving on to implementing what's missing according to MERGE-TODO. are you ok with the order things are listed in there ?
<nerochiaro> as I plan to go through the list in that order
<wagnerrp> popey: all the js and QT script files, i rather figured it WAS a browser
<popey> haha
<davilla> Kaleo: do you have any tech contacts a ces, one of our devs is there and wants to meet.
<davilla> Kaleo: meet TheUni_ , TheUni_ Kaleo :)
<TheUni_> hi Kaleo
<mhall119> hi TheUni_
<TheUni_> hi mhall119. are you working on ubuntu-tv ?
<mcbaine1> hi there, i was just wondering if anyone know about any Ubuntu-tv videos online from CES yet ???
<mcbaine1> plz specify any web-link you know of ....
<mhall119> TheUni_: not directly, no, but I work for Canonical
<mhall119> mcbaine1: yes, follow Ubuntu TV on Google+, I've been posting all the CES coverage there
<mhall119> https://plus.google.com/u/0/104659991254860976283/
<mcbaine1> opening...
<TheUni_> mhall119: ah, ok. I'm with XBMC at CES, was hoping to setup a quick tech meeting while I'm here
<mwcampbell> Has anyone on the Ubuntu TV team given any thought to accessibility for users with disabilities? I'm thinking particularly of blind users.
<mwcampbell> I suppose the accessibility of Ubuntu TV will depend to a large extent on the accessibility of Unity.
<mwcampbell> Specifically Unity 2D, right?
<mhall119> mwcampbell: I don't know, I'm not sure how the typical desktop accessibility features would work on a remote-controlled UI
<mhall119> mwcampbell: yeah, which is Qt, which I've heard isn't great for a11y
<mhall119> mcbaine1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT2btFsfj8Y is a video from CES
<mcbaine1> mhall119, Interesting video on google+ ... but i didn't see any usage of youtube on the UbuntuTV shown ... why is that ??
<mcbaine1> opening..
<mhall119> mcbaine1: it's demo software, the youtube components may not be working
<mcbaine1> oh dear... fail.
<mwcampbell> mhall119: Last I checked, GTK had the best accessibility. But Qt is probably better than a completely custom UI.
<mwcampbell> mhall119: As for a remote control UI, I don't yet have any direct experience with such things, but doesn't that normally involve moving through items in a menu, then selecting one?
<mhall119> mcbaine1: you can probably  use the YouTube lens developed by someone else to accomplish the feature
<mcbaine1> mmm you see youtube = online video , these days.
 * tgm4883 sighs
<mhall119> the YouTube lens can play it in Totem, no browser, no flash
 * mcbaine1 drnks his milk.
<tgm4883> mcbaine1, then I guess it's a good thing this is a tech demo at a non-user event
<mcbaine1> personally, i don't see this concept progressing any more than what was shown and i therefore feel as ubuntu has missed the mark , the trisquel team will accomplish youtube on tv .
<tgm4883> and so will the Ubuntu TV team
 * mcbaine1 wonders when hell freezes over ..
<tgm4883> popey, ping
<mhall119> mcbaine1: again,a YouTube lens already exists that works
<mhall119> whether or not that's what is shown in the demo I don't know
<mhall119> so, in summary, YouTube on Ubuntu TV already exists
<maxolasersquad> mhall119: The latest build from the instructions has a Youtube icon, but it doesn't function right now.
<maxolasersquad> Youtube on TV has been solved many times over.
<mwcampbell> Is there a written description of the way Ubuntu TV's remote control UI works, or is intended to work?
<maxolasersquad> mcbaine1: It's pretty early to expect it to be feature rich.  The demo is just that, a demo ... of things to come ... not of exactly what will be released.
<mhall119> maxolasersquad: have you tried installing the community-developed YouTube lens and scope?
<maxolasersquad> No, do you have a link?
<mhall119> mwcampbell: I don't think there is one yet, no
<maxolasersquad> mhall119: ^^
<mhall119> maxolasersquad: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/unity-youtube-lens-updates-with-browser-free-video-playback/
<mhall119> it opens in totem though, rather than what it should for Ubuntu TV
<mhall119> at least, I assume it will, maybe it'll "just work"
<mhall119> vlc, not totem
<tgm4883> mhall119, actually, I think it will just work
<mhall119> but it wouldn't take much to open it full-screen in whatever Ubuntu TV uses for video playback
<tgm4883> it should call the default video player
<mhall119> tgm4883: if it goes by the mimetype it might
<mhall119> tgm4883: since it's pulling from YouTube, nto local files, I'm not sure how it get's passed
<maxolasersquad> mhall119: Unfortunately the ppa doesn't include precise.
<mhall119> maxolasersquad: yeah, I think they're only targetting 11.10 right now
<mhall119> for the demo anyway
<popey> tgm4883: pong
<mhall119> Saviq: Kaleo: are either of you on Facebook?  I have an Ubuntu TV page there now too
<tgm4883> popey, so do we know anything about the actual TV functionality of Ubuntu-TV yet? (eg. DVR)
<popey> we know that doesnt exist
<popey> (the dvr bits)
<tgm4883> Is there any Ubuntu TV documentation anywhere for developing for it?
<tgm4883> or is it strictly read the code and figure it out
<tgm4883> seems like it should be rather easy to use http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Services_API
<popey> Kaleo / Saviq would probably be best to ask about that
<tgm4883> popey, they are canonical?
<popey> yes
<tgm4883> i'll watch for them to be around then
<Saviq> wagnerrp, that's not Qt script, it's QML
<Saviq> mwcampbell, hey, trying to answer all your questions in order, sorry if they were answered already
<Saviq> mwcampbell, a11y is one of the priorities for unity2d, which means ubuntu tv is actually already quite accessible
<Saviq> and we could easily make it 100% accessible
<mwcampbell> Saviq: cool, thanks
<Saviq> mwcampbell, re remote - minimum for that _concept_ is 9 buttons
<Saviq> usual navigation, enter, back and left, top, right bars
<Saviq> youtube there is just a placeholder, remember it's all a _concept_
<mhall119> Saviq: does the concept run standard Unity lenses currently?
<Saviq> mhall119, I'm not on FB, I don't think Kaleo is, either
<Saviq> tgm4883, no docs right now, since there's no product to develop for, no sdk plans, nothing like that yet
<Saviq> it's just concept / demo code
<Saviq> mhall119, it could, although they are disabled right now
<Saviq> as the UI wasn't tested for stuff other than movies
<Saviq> so it's just the custom / fake video lens right now
<Saviq> but you could easily enable the music (apps doesn't really make sense) button in the launcher
<Saviq> and have the music lens run
<AlanBell> is it tied to 2d forever or could it be done in unity 3d on openGL capable hardware?
<Saviq> AlanBell, it's running on OpenGL
<Saviq> 2d is really a misnomer
<AlanBell> oooh, ok
<Saviq> AlanBell, on theverge you can see it running on a Revo
<Saviq> which is Atom + ION
<Saviq> it's quite snappy there
<AlanBell> so the launcher buttons open different lenses
<Saviq> AlanBell, that's the concept right now - no bottom lens bar since it would be difficult to get there via keyboard navigation
<AlanBell> that makes a heap more sense than desktop unity launcher to be honest
<Saviq> that depends
<Saviq> if you have something like 6 lenses
<AlanBell> really don't like the way it mixes up stuff you have running and stuff that isn't running but is pinned
<Saviq> then half of your launcher will be used by lens buttons
<Saviq> AlanBell, that's because it isn't a task bar, but that's a discussion for #ayatana, really
<AlanBell> yeah, I know
<Saviq> mhall119, re youtube lens - you could also easily hook up the youtube button to the youtube lens
<Saviq> and as long as it will give a stream url with correct mime type, it should play inside Ubuntu TV
<Saviq> no disk buffering yet, though
#ubuntu-tv 2012-01-11
<tgm4883> Saviq, are you handing the DVR type stuff?
<tgm4883> I ask, because the next version of MythTV should have this nice service API http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Services_API
<Saviq> tgm4883, there wasn't any real evaluation of DVRs, but myth is definitely on the table
<tgm4883> Saviq, Other than daily use of Unity, I don't know much about it. I've been reading up on lenses and scopes for the last 30 minutes, is that basically what this will be made out of? (lenses and scopes)
<tgm4883> ie. there will be a videos lense, which there could be a mythtv scope for
<tgm4883> ah I see you basically answered that with a yes above
<tgm4883> sorry just reading backlog :)(
<Saviq> tgm4883, it really depends
<Saviq> the most integrated approach would probably be with a mythtv scope for the video lens
<Saviq> a bit more customized - a separate lens for mythtv
<Saviq> and even more custom, if required - just a fullscreen app that will just paint whatever it wants
<tgm4883> Saviq, is there plans for a DVR lens?
<tgm4883> it just seems that "videos" doesn't encompass everything that a DVR would be expected to do
<Saviq> tgm4883, why not?
<tgm4883> Saviq, well to me, Video would be for video playback. If I wanted to schedule a recording I don't really think that fits
<tgm4883> on the other hand
<tgm4883> if I'm searching, I would want it to search though both recorded content, videos, and possibly upcoming recordings
<tgm4883> TV guide wouldn't really fit into a video lens IMO
<Saviq> tgm4883, that's why we have a separate EPG
<Saviq> that's a fairly standard grid
<tgm4883> Saviq, ah nice
<tgm4883> so maybe videos is the proper place for it (mythTV)
<tgm4883> Saviq, is there a target for shipping this? (eg. 12.04)
<Saviq> tgm4883, nope
<tgm4883> even better, cause the services API isn't going to be done until MythTV 0.25, which is going to miss the 12.04 cut off
<tgm4883> ah, hometime
 * tgm4883 heads out
<Saviq> cheers
<jimmy_dean> anybody around?
<Saviq> jimmy_dean, it's 2am here, so not for long, but still here
<jimmy_dean> Is there much of a community working on UbuntuTV yet?
<jimmy_dean> I'd like to contribute
<Saviq> did you see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Contributing ?
<mhall119> Saviq: are you in Budapest?
<Saviq> mhall119, yes
<mhall119> I figured you were in Vegas
<Saviq> mhall119, no, just mgmt went there
<Saviq> jimmy_dean, and http://www.ubuntu.com/tv/contributors
<jimmy_dean> Saviq, yes I saw that
<mhall119> lucky them
<Saviq> mhall119, not really, AFAIK
<jimmy_dean> not that last link though
<Saviq> manning the booth whole day
<Saviq> jimmy_dean, best subscribe to the ubuntu-tv list
<mhall119> doesn't sound so bad
<mhall119> jimmy_dean: we've been discussing Ubuntu TV and playing with mockups around here for about a month
<jimmy_dean> Saviq, just did that...ok
<mhall119> now that there's some concept code to work on, we'll probably start hacking
 * mhall119 needs to brush up on his C++
<jimmy_dean> so where did the code that is being demoed at CES come from?
<Saviq> it's a proof of concept developed at Canonical
<mhall119> jimmy_dean: a small band of crazy hackers inside Canonical
<jimmy_dean> ok, I have quite a bit of experience working on software like Ubuntu TV for a living
<mhall119> I can only assume they were locked in a small room and force-fed coffee
<jimmy_dean> lol
<jimmy_dean> and I'd like to put it to some actual good use :)
<mhall119> jimmy_dean: the code is up on launchpad, and instructions on the wiki for getting it going
<Saviq> mhall119, ok, you seem to be handling it, I'm off, cheers!
<mhall119> Saviq: g'night
<jimmy_dean> thanks Saviq
<jimmy_dean> night
<jimmy_dean> mhall119, so neither you nor Saviq work for Canonical?
<mhall119> we both do, actually
<mhall119> Saviq I believe was one of those crazy coffee-fueled hackers that produced the demo shown at CES
<jimmy_dean> oh ok, nice
<mhall119> I'm a developer liason, helping people use Ubuntu technology
<jimmy_dean> do you enjoy working for Canonical?
<mhall119> oh yes, it's an amazing place to work, and you get to work with so many very smart and talented people
<jimmy_dean> awesome, I'd really like to work for Canonical as well
<jimmy_dean> it does sound quite awesome
<mhall119> in what capacity?
<jimmy_dean> developer
<jimmy_dean> I currently work for a company making software that is very very similar to Ubuntu TV
<jimmy_dean> using GStreamer
<mhall119> http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical/careers lists the current openings, see if something there sounds right for you and send in your application
<jimmy_dean> I've actually just applied a few days ago :)
<jimmy_dean> haven't heard a thing back yet
<mhall119> it can take a while
<jimmy_dean> that's what I hear
<mhall119> I applied to probably a dozen positions over more than a year before I got hired
<jimmy_dean> really, so you can apply to more than one at a time?
<mhall119> it's very competative
<jimmy_dean> that's ok?
<mhall119> yeah, that's fine
<jimmy_dean> nice to know, I may apply to another one then
<mhall119> if you get an interview, just let the person know you've applied to other positions, but it won't count against you
<jimmy_dean> excellent
<jimmy_dean> thanks for the tip
<mhall119> I had 2 interviews for 2 separate positions when one of them hired me :)
<mhall119> no problem
<jimmy_dean> well gotta run for the evening, but I hope to be back to contribute and watch the project progress
<L-----D> is my understanding correct that UTV is a modified version of unity 2d
<tgm4883> L-----D, IIRC, no
<tgm4883> I'll have to look though the backlog though for the full answer
<L-----D> tgm4883, thanks, so it that true UTV BASED on a modofied version of unity 2d?
<tgm4883> L-----D, Saviq	AlanBell, it's running on OpenGL	23:14
<tgm4883> Saviq	2d is really a misnomer
<tgm4883> that is what was said earlier, take from it what you want
<tgm4883> I read it as it's not unity2d, but looking at it again, it's probably based on that
<L-----D> hmmm
<Saviq> tgm4883, yes it's based off of unity2d, only that it should never have been named 2d
<Saviq> L-----D, yes it is based off of unity 2d, under OpenGL
<Saviq> the "2d" part of the name does not mean it can't do 3d, it simply was designed to work on 2d
<Saviq> initially
<L-----D> Saviq, then is there any plan for unity3d?
<Saviq> there is no plan for unity2d right now, either
<Saviq> it's a concept, that's all
<L-----D> Saviq, OK
<L-----D> Saviq, but if I want to prepare some dev skills for UTV dev, what would I need
<Saviq> there's no plans right now that could tell you that, sorry
<L-----D> Saviq, and since UTV also going to run on arm platform, something like Java/JVM based app would not be a good idea?
<Saviq> we'll let all of you guys know once we know it
<Saviq> L-----D, when is ever a Java/JVM based app a good idea ;P
<L-----D> Saviq, ;(
<Saviq> L-----D, there's better options to go cross platform
<Saviq> but yeah, rather too big of an overhead there
<Saviq> but again - there're really no concrete plans right now
<L-----D> Saviq, I have a media library and a media server in Java already, I want to connect/show it on UTV
<L-----D> Saviq, what knowledge do I need to develop a Lens/Scope for Ubuntu TV?
<Saviq> L-----D, scratch the "TV" from that sentence and read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses
<ernstp> I'm curious about the "real" TV part of Ubuntu TV, ie DVB/DVR stuff
<ernstp> The program guide looked very similary to MythTV
<ernstp> Is the plan to use the mythtv backend? Or maybe Gnome DVB daemon?
<popey> the program guide was mostly a mockup
<popey> no decision has been made about that, but re-using existing code like mythtv makes sense
<mhall119> L-----D: actually most ARM chips can natively execute a subset of Java bytecode
<mhall119> Saviq: Kaleo: http://askubuntu.com/questions/94490/what-is-the-api-for-new-lens-features-in-the-ubuntu-tv-alpha/94608#94608
<Saviq> eh
<mhall119> Saviq: I posted a response, just wanted to make sure I was accurate
<Saviq> yeah
<Saviq> we didn't get nor introduce anything new to the lenses
<Saviq> API
<mhall119> Saviq: is there any chance we can get a blog post or something about how the demo was built, what was working and what was just for show, etc?
<mhall119> either from you or someone else involved
<Saviq> mhall119, might make sense, we'll definitely talk about that
<mhall119> cool, thanks
<mhall119> oh, an interview with pete goodall
<L-----D> a Team Blog will better
<popey> mhall119: where?
<mhall119> popey: http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/10/2697982/interview-ubuntu-tv-pete-goodall
<popey> ta
<mhall119> \o/ about 10 minutes in he talks about all of the discussions we've had in here over the last month or two
<nerochiaro> mhall119: in fact most of the stuff in the demo isn't lenses at all, except for the coverflow list of movies
<nerochiaro> mhall119: the stuff mentioned in the question on askubuntu is all picking up data directly from fake data sources
<mhall119> nerochiaro: that's what I figured, just wanted to make sure I wasn't telling them wrong
<nerochiaro> mhall119: answer sounds good to me
<mhall119> cool
<mhall119> this project is making be think about building an HTPC again...
<mhall119> popey: what email do you use for G+?
<mhall119> I'd like to add you as a manager for the Ubuntu TV page
<nerochiaro> mhall119: i know how you feel. i just purchased a REVO yesterday in fact ;)
<mhall119> heh, a google search for 'REVO' gets me http://popey.com/blog/2010/01/14/ubuntu-boxee-and-get_iplayer-on-the-acer-aspire-revo/ :)
<nerochiaro> i got the 3700 but yeah, more or less the same device
<nerochiaro> sounded like a good replacement for my aging htpc so even if i can't run utv on it just yet it's still going to be a good replacement
<nerochiaro> it consume less, it's quieter
<mhall119> yes, I may need to get one of those
<popey> mhall119: my first name dot my last name at gmail dot com
<mhall119> nerochiaro: it would be nice if there was some 'target dev hardware' for those of us who want to play before OEMs start selling it
<mhall119> popey: thanks
<nerochiaro> mhall119: for the demo the revo 3700 was the target hardware
<mhall119> popey: invited
<popey> ta
<mhall119> nerochiaro: will that continue to be the case?  If so, I'd like to be able to advertise it
<nerochiaro> mhall119: i don't know. i guess a lot depends on the feedback we get at CES
<mhall119> nerochiaro: if we can get some kind of a commitment for community devs before they shell out $300, that would be great
<mhall119> does the revo support IR remotes like the boxee remote?
<mhall119> or does the remote itself come with a reciever
<nerochiaro> mhall119: i think it's too early to be recommending hardware, but it's just my personal opinion.
<popey> the boxee remote is bluetooth isnt it?
<popey> and the revo doesn't have bluetooth built in (mine doesn't anyway) but usb bluetooth dongles are free with breakfast cereal these days
<Saviq> the boxee remote is RF, but not bluetooth, AFAIK
<Saviq> or maybe it is, just that you need the dongle anyway
<mhall119> popey: looks like it comes witha usb reciever: http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-DSM-22-Boxee-Remote/dp/B00480OSVK
<popey> even better
<popey> thanks for clarifying
<mhall119> hmmm, $350 for an HTPC, not bad
<popey> tempted to get one myself
<mhall119> me too
<popey> i chucked an SSD and 4GB RAM in my Revo, flies now âº
<mhall119> nerochiaro: can that please be discussed?  It'll be hard to build a community of contributors if we can't tell them what hardware they can use to hack on it
<mhall119> but I think enough people would invest $350
<nerochiaro> mhall119: certainly, but ask willcooke first, i think he's the most appropriate person to comment on that kind of commitment
<mhall119> is he in Vegas?
<nerochiaro> i think so
<mhall119> ok, I'll try him later then
<nerochiaro> (i've been on vacation for the past couple weeks, i'm still getting up to speed on who's where ;))
<mhall119> popey: added to as admin for the facebook page too
<popey> thanks
<popey> Will is indeed in Vegas
 * mhall119 wants a naughty cake
<popey> âº
<MrChrisDruif> Do the naughty cakes taste good popey ?
<popey> the yellow ones are yum
<Saviq> mhall119, if the revo would be deemed the target device... no real need to put out any $s
<Saviq> we developed it on our laptops, connected to the tv for verification
<Saviq> but that's about it
<popey> We're working on getting it built on armel
<popey> we have a little problem with the infrastructure which we're working on.
<Saviq> but yeah, if ^ pans out, something like a panda board would probably be best to at least test out the performance
<mhall119> cool
<MrChrisDruif> But panda is ARMv6 if I remember correctly?
<mhall119> doesn't really matter what it is, as long as we have something we can point to
<davilla> panda is armv7/neon
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, I've been proven wrong before ^_^
<tgm4883> I'd hope that this is something that is eventually released as an ISO that could be installed on anything
<tgm4883> or are we just talking REVO as lowest hardware form
<MrChrisDruif> Seems like a plan tgm4883
<Saviq> tgm4883, "eventually" is really a huge void
<popey> we already have an iso which has been tested internally
<popey> but it's not something I'd put my name on :D
<popey> I'll spin one up which is less sucky if you like
<MrChrisDruif> Would be nice I think
<tgm4883> either way, I have a zotac with an atom 330 and ION that I use as a MythTV frontend
<tgm4883> which sounds similar in hardware to the revo
<MrChrisDruif> Revo is the same hw I thought
<tgm4883> could be, I heard it has an atom and ION, but I didn't bother looking at the specs
<tgm4883> If I find out I'm not total crap at making lenses and scopes AND I have some extra time at work I'll try and start a mythtv scope
<tgm4883> and with that, off to work
<mhall119> lenses and scopes aren't difficult, join #ayatana for help on those
<nerochiaro> especially lenses in python are quite easy to do
<Saviq> or vala, too, AFAIK
<AlanBell> most (maybe all) of the standard lenses are vala
<Saviq> yup
<AlanBell> I found it a bit complicated to work on, but that could be because I was working with existing lenses and really wanted a clean starting point
<nerochiaro> true that, i just mention python since it's the only thing i tried to use and it was real quick
<Saviq> I just wasn't sure of the "quite easy" aspect of vala ;)
<Saviq> never touched it yet
<AlanBell> vala compiles down to c which then gets compiled again
<AlanBell> so you get error reports referencing line numbers in autogenerated c files which is a little confusing, but OK once you understand what is going on and that you shouldn't mess with the .c files
<nerochiaro> AlanBell: and it's such a joy when it spits out some wrong C ;) (even though it's happening a lot less now that it's more mature)
<popey> meh, someone else can spin up an iso, it's more effort than it's worth
<mhall119> you know you guys did something right with Ubuntu TV, when by far the most frequent complaint is only that the dash background should be darker :)
<mhall119> 498 followers on G+, so close
<nerochiaro> mhall119: how many on fb ?
<mhall119> don't ask :(
<mhall119> just follow
<mhall119> and spread the word, so I have something better to report on that front :)
<nerochiaro> mhall119: ;)
<tgm4883> facebook :(
<popey> meh
<popey> we go where the users are âº
<tsdgeos> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-TV/133518260097999 ?
<tsdgeos> https://www.facebook.com/pages/UbuntuTV/163423337003689 ?
<tsdgeos> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-TV/292073127507356 ?
<tsdgeos> too many
<tsdgeos> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-TV/292073127507356 <--- i guess this is the good one?
<mhall119> gah, I wish Facebook wouldn't let people make multiple pages for the same name
<popey> well
<popey> we can get a nice url if more people 'like' it
<mhall119> +1
<mhall119> I mean, 'like'
<popey> get jono to pimp it on the ubuntu facebook page mhall119 and we'll get hundreds in an instant
<mhall119> popey: good idea
<popey> i am sat with him now
<popey> right, he's gonna do it now, so we have 9 'likes' at the moment.
<popey> haha, 86
<popey> 96
<mhall119> 241
<popey> https://www.facebook.com/UbuntuTV  is now ours :D
<mhall119> almost 400 now
<mhall119> \o/
<popey> Right, off out for our team dinner to celebrate :D
<mhall119> enjoy
 * MrChrisDruif can't watch that interview of Peter Goodall <_<"
<tgm4883> Since hardware hasn't been worked out yet, I'd like to see something similar to what wagnerrp proposed
<tgm4883> in case he hasn't said it in here
<tgm4883> <wagnerrp> put a mounting bay on the back of the tv for some standard form factor i.e. make it something you could stuff any mini-itx system in it. feed power, HDMI, network, and IR (if not provided by the HDMI) and just use it as one of the inputs on the TV. so three years down the line, you want to upgrade the capabilities with a faster system, you arent stuck with an expensive and now antiquated tv
<tgm4883> I mean, you could certainly ship a TV with this already in it, but make it something that the user could upgrade in the future
<MrChrisDruif> I had an idea about that in my head already
<MrChrisDruif> But I didn't know if Ubuntu/Canonical was going into the hw market
<tgm4883> MrChrisDruif, that is the ideal situation, but if you need a common hardware platform you could create a STB similar in size to a ROKU, then have the TV have a slot in the back you could slide it into providing all of the connections.
<tgm4883> That is how I think apple would do an actual TV, unless they really expect people to buy a $2000 TV every 2 years
<MrChrisDruif> It was indeed more of a standards idea
<MrChrisDruif> Having standards for TV's just like computers would be a huge boon!!
<wagnerrp> the consequence is that you can then replace the brains without requiring you to purchase a new $2000 TV every two years
<wagnerrp> with TV manufacturers scrambling to find new features to give users a reason to continue purchasing
<wagnerrp> such a thing might be a hard sell
<tgm4883> wagnerrp, true
<tgm4883> perhaps they would be willing to produce the pluggable STB box?
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah, would be easier to sell this idea to computer and display manufacturers
<MrChrisDruif> settopbox box?
<tgm4883> thats a much easier thing to swallow for the consumer, generating more smaller sales
<tgm4883> MrChrisDruif, to go with my NIC card ;)
<MrChrisDruif> NIC=??
<tgm4883> Network Interface Card
<wagnerrp> network interface card card
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah
<wagnerrp> set top box box
<MrChrisDruif> Or as we say in Holland "APK Keuring" which loosely translates into "Generale Periodic Check Check"
<MrChrisDruif> APK = MOT
<tgm4883> I'd definitly like to see both the software and hardware upgradable
<MrChrisDruif> Indeed
<mhall119> tgm4883: the problem is that so many of the improvements to televisions lately have been in the screens
<mhall119> you can't turn a non-3d TV into a 3d TV without replacing the screen
<mhall119> High Def to Ultra Def or 4k, same thing
<mhall119> LCD to OLED
<mhall119> etc
<MrChrisDruif> mhall119; it all depends on HOW you'd construct it
<wagnerrp> the average consumer isnt going for 3D no matter how much its getting pushed
<MrChrisDruif> You'd need to see the hardware parts as separate, just like with a computer
<mhall119> not yet, everybody bought new HDTVs right before 3d came out
<MrChrisDruif> wagnerrp; A lot of my friends have got a 3D screen already
<wagnerrp> 4K panels arent going to be of use until we actually get content at that resolution, and the current internet streaming options dont even come close to bluray quality
<wagnerrp> MrChrisDruif: i dare say a lot of your friends are techies, spending a lot of money for every new gadget that comes out
<mhall119> MrChrisDruif: what exactly would you want to replace anyway?
<mhall119> CPU? you're not going to be doing much multi-tasking on a TV
<MrChrisDruif> wagnerrp; you'd probably be right about that ^_^ but to counter that...they're students
<mhall119> GPU? It's already doing full 1080p
<mhall119> network?  Maybe, but the bottleneck if going to be the ISP, not local LAN or WLAN speeds
<wagnerrp> mhall119: switching out a box would allow a tv to go from current h264 streaming content, to future vp8 streaming content, to whatever h264's replacement will be due in draft in the next year or so
<mhall119> storage?  That's the only reasonable one, I think, and between cloud and NAS you don't need to touch the tv
<wagnerrp> provide more power for future apps, or whatever you may want to do with it
<mhall119> it's possible, but I don't currently see a market for componet upgrades to TVs
<wagnerrp> the point is, computers have been rapidly advancing for decades, TVs really didnt start changing significantly until about 10 years ago
<mhall119> not without replacing the screen, anyway
<wagnerrp> at at the moment, the market seems to have largely run out of steam until something replaces bluray and ATSC with higher resolutions
<wagnerrp> sure, there are new panel techs coming out, but tv manufacturers are advertising "smarts" more than anything else to sell stuff
<wagnerrp> access your network content, access facebook, access twitter, etc...
<wagnerrp> swap out the smarts with better smarts, rather than having to buy a new tv
<imnichol> wagnerrp, are you arguing for UbuntuTV as a set-top box?  Or as a modular TV?
<mhall119> the *only* thing I can definitely see fueling such a market would be replacing console gaming with in-TV gaming
<wagnerrp> im saying dont stuff it into the TV, requiring a new TV should you want to upgrade its capability
<wagnerrp> have a modular bay in the TV that you can swap out with something different
<wagnerrp> something like the old expansion bay on the N64
<imnichol> I don't see any manufacturers wanting to go along with that
<mhall119> imnichol: not quite set-top, but replacable in the same way
<wagnerrp> imnichol: yes, thats the problem with the idea
<wagnerrp> make the smarts modular, and they lose something they could otherwise use to entice you to a new tv
<mhall119> basically he's saying a TV that is a docking station
<imnichol> Presumably Canonical wants to make money, and we want to see Ubuntu have as much adoption as possible; both of those require that UbuntuTV get as large a chunk of the marketshare as possible
<mhall119> not smart on it's own
<imnichol> And I doubt that a modular TV would be successful in that field
<mhall119> though I bet if an OEM wanted to ship Ubuntu on such a modular TV, we won't say no ;)
<imnichol> Correct mhall119 :)
<wagnerrp> imnichol: something modular would be advantageous to the consumer, if the consumer understood its purpose... something integrated would be advantageous to the manufacturer, and would allow a slightly slimmer device
<mhall119> wagnerrp: so basically it's a manufacturer's decision, if they think they can make more money on a modular TV, they'll make that
<mhall119> but I don't think they can
<imnichol> wagnerrp, Problem is most consumers don't care enough about that
<imnichol> The number of people who want to upgrade their TV is tiny
<imnichol> Me included
<imnichol> I just want to buy at TV and not have to worry about it anymore
 * mhall119 still has only SD TVs
<imnichol> mhall119 is a caveman ;)
<wagnerrp> imnichol: i would say anyone over 40 wants to upgrade their tv
<mhall119> they're in color!
<mhall119> imnichol: when I can buy an unlocked Ubuntu HDTV, then I'll upgrade
<wagnerrp> someone who ran that same CRT through VCR, to DVD, possibly Bluray and got their couponed DTAs for the analog shutdown
<wagnerrp> this whole throw away and replace with a slightly better model is something that has only existed with TVs for about 10 years
<MrChrisDruif> mhall119; you are missing some an option here: gaming. Current hardware might quite easily play 1080p without trouble, but what about gaming?
<mhall119> MrChrisDruif: I specifically said that gaming would do it
<MrChrisDruif> Woops...missed that in the stream of text ^_^
<mhall119> 19:23 < mhall119> the *only* thing I can definitely see fueling such a market would be  replacing console gaming with in-TV gaming
<MrChrisDruif> But that's a taboo currently in Linux in general
<mhall119> taboo?
<mhall119> I don't think so
<wagnerrp> gaming?
<MrChrisDruif> Gaming in Linux, yes
<wagnerrp> but we have tux racer! and that one where you have to isolate bouncing balls!
<mhall119> it's not taboo, it's just scarce
<MrChrisDruif> It's not good atm
<mhall119> look at the humble indie bundles, those are popular among Linux users
<MrChrisDruif> Not for serious gaming
<MrChrisDruif> Yes, compared to the other options...it's pretty fun gaming...but have you seen some serious good game for sell like MW3 for Linux?
<mhall119> no
<mhall119> it's not taboo, it's a catch22
<mhall119> no games == no gamers == no games
<MrChrisDruif> Yup
<wagnerrp> basically, these were just musings, coming from experience with the mythtv community
<MrChrisDruif> The chicken and the egg problem is what it's also called
<mhall119> yup
<wagnerrp> right now, one of the cleanest installs you can do would be a slim Atom unit, or mac mini, or mini-itx system in an M350, velcro'd to the back of a TV
<MrChrisDruif> VESA mounts?
<wagnerrp> or vesa mounts, but then that prevents you from using those mounts to mount the tv, and sometimes the stand itself uses those mounts
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah
<wagnerrp> this would have just been a continuation of that concept, but having it "dock" so you could get rid of the cables, or use very short patch cables
<MrChrisDruif> So like I said, integrated would be nice. But in such a way that only the screen needs replacing...or just parts of the hardware
<wagnerrp> but you still retain control over the smarts that run the TV, rather than having it be something you may need to "jailbreak" or risk irreparably damaging
<wagnerrp> do you turn your TV into a PC, or do you add PC-like capabilities to your TV
<MrChrisDruif> I think the first
<wagnerrp> it all comes down to who is actually in control of it
<MrChrisDruif> We need standards for that
<tgm4883> mhall119, further, There aren't many TV's that you can buy anymore that aren't 3D
<MrChrisDruif> tgm4883; enough in my country
<tgm4883> I think if the TV was a 1080p screen that supported 3D, that you would be set for quite some time, providing you could upgrade the processing unit
<tgm4883> the low end units aren't going to have that built in dock anyway
<maxolasersquad> q
<MrChrisDruif> Yes?
<mcbaine1> elo ??
<mhall119> hi
#ubuntu-tv 2012-01-12
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: the MERGE-TODO seems well sorted
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: the priority for me is that I can use it as my day to day desktop env asap so that I find the bugs
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: good. i'm 75% done on the input shaping task
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: great
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: which is the biggest show stopper IMHO
<nerochiaro> everything else is details, but don't prevent you to use day to day
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: btw, the packages in the staging ppa seem to have an ugly looking bottom-right corner for the dash when it's in desktop mode. is that supposed to be there ?
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: https://chinstrap.canonical.com/~osomon/unity-2d/dash-not-fullscreen.png
<Saviq> nerochiaro, did you get mhr3 in the end?
<nerochiaro> Saviq: Kaleo brought his laptop to him and he explained live
<nerochiaro> Saviq: all solved
<Saviq> ok
<Saviq> nerochiaro, I'll take your screenshot to greyback
<nerochiaro> Saviq: oh, so he's around, i thougth he was on holidays
<Saviq> nah, he's here in Budapest
<Saviq> nerochiaro, it's a known issue
<nerochiaro> Saviq: what i need to know is if that corner is gonna stay rounded or if that will change
<Saviq> yeah the image just needs to get fixed
<nerochiaro> ok
<iceroot> at the moment we dont have a (meta)package? so it will be build from source?
<Saviq> iceroot, it's just a concept right now, no real point in building it for people
<Saviq> iceroot, there's a ppa though (obviously) ;)
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: can you report a bug about the dash corner thing as high priority and ping gerry about it?
<iceroot> Saviq: good to know thank you, we had a big announcment in germany about ubuntu-tv on a very big website
<Saviq> Kaleo, he knows that issue already
<iceroot> Saviq: i think i will doe some testing and report bugs and so on
<Saviq> iceroot, could you give a link?
<iceroot> Saviq: one moment
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: Saviq pinged him already, said he's aware of it
<iceroot> Saviq: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Ubuntu-fuer-Fernseher-1405708.html (german version), http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Canonical-unveils-Ubuntu-TV-at-CES-1405634.html (english version). its the biggest it-website in germany
<Saviq> Kaleo, popey ^
<iceroot> also see http://www.golem.de/1201/88880.html (german version only)
<popey> âº
<iceroot> so we are working with the normal bug-system on launchpad for ubuntu-tv? or is it really just a concept without a need of testing and so on?
<mhall119> popey: Saviq: Kaleo: nerochiaro: anybody interested in doing a classroom session about Ubuntu TV for Ubuntu Developer Week?
<tgm4883> mhall119, is there anything to teach that couldn't be in the unity/lenses session?
<mhall119> tgm4883: most likely
<popey> mhall119: can i be an admin on the g+ page?
<mhall119> popey: you aren't? let me check
<popey> alan.pope at gmail
<popey> (is my g+ account)
<mhall119> popey: I send an invite
<mhall119> let me know if you  want me to re-send it
<popey> mhall119: i didnt get it
<chrisvilla> Has anyone seen http://spiceofdesign.deviantart.com/art/Response-to-Ubuntu-TV-278493286 ?
<Saviq> chrisvilla, nice, thanks
<chrisvilla> Saviq, what do you reckon?
<mhall119> chrisvilla: nice, but the widgets are all way too small for a 10 foot display
<Saviq> yeah
<Saviq> chrisvilla, I don't like the indicators bar
<mhall119> the color will likely be possible with the new Unity-5.0 options
<chrisvilla> I didn't design it, but I'd just like to pass on comments to the designer
<mhall119> Saviq: it would be really, really nice if one of the UbuntuTV hackers can give a short presentation during Ubuntu Developer Week to boost community interest and involvement
<Saviq> mhall119, yeah I saw that, we'll talk about it
<mhall119> thanks
<tgm4883> +1 to that design with the show image in the background
<mhall119> wow, over 200,000 views of the Ubuntu TV video on YouTube
<nerochiaro> Saviq: i updated the input shape branch to use bitmaps like i mentioned before. it's working much better now, should have no more bugs.
<nerochiaro> popey: ping
<tgm4883> Are there any screenshots of what recorded tv episodes would look like?
<tgm4883> and/or is there a different view for looking at a bunch of recorded tv shows?
<tgm4883> all the images I've seen so far seem to be of videos, which while similar, are still very different to tv shows
<tgm4883> alternatively, Is there expected data that needs to be fed to the videos lens for tv shows?
<popey> nerochiaro: pong
<popey> tgm4883: there is a screenshot i have seen which shows a motorbike on a road, with a side-bar
<nerochiaro> popey: hi. i just wanted to ask you some questions on how to setup the nvidia driver on a REVO, but i think i managed to take care of it already for the most part
<popey> nerochiaro: sudo apt-get install nvidia-current libvdpau1
<popey> job done âº
<nerochiaro> popey: i did that with jockey, but i guess it's the same deal
<popey> yeah
<nerochiaro> popey: the ony thing that it's missing is fixing some overscan problems i'm having with my tv i guess
<popey> but add libvdpau manually
<nerochiaro> will do
 * popey stabs overscan in the face
<nerochiaro> yeah, hate it with all my soul
<nerochiaro> popey: do you happen to have any clues on that maybe ?
<popey> i never use it on TVs, so sorry, no
<nerochiaro> popey: ok, np
<tgm4883> popey, any link to that? I'm having difficulty finding it
<popey> i saw it on a news site, cant recall which one, will rummage
<popey> http://www.linuxnov.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Ubuntu-TV-Screenshot-4.png  there is one
<popey> tgm4883: i cant find it, sorry
<popey> Saviq knows the pic I mean. maybe he can get clearance to show it
<popey> it's basically just a background of the video running and the sidebar showing synopsis with Now/Next overlayed
<tgm4883> popey, actually this screenshot seems to be what I'm looking for
<popey> cool
<popey> remember its just a mockup
<tgm4883> basically I just wanted to know about what data was expected to be available for TV shows
<popey> there's no guarantee it will be what gets delivered, if indeed anything gets delivered
<popey> it would be nice if we had more than just the time/date and synopsis, some more data we could use to do referential lookups to other shows etc would be nice
<popey> being able to automagically figure out another showing of the same show to enable multiple-tuner recording would be nice too
<popey> (basically the usual stuff you expect a myth box to do)
<tgm4883> popey, this is what is returned using the mythtv services API when looking at recorded shows (for 0.25)  http://pastebin.com/vDgVwyWY
<tgm4883> although there seems to be a minor bug, the random text in there should likely be surrounded by description tags
<tgm4883> line 21
<popey> lots of detail there though
<tgm4883> yea
<tgm4883> there isn't anything that says season/episode# ,but I bet that is retreivable via SeriesId and ProgramId
<tgm4883> Ideally, In that screenshot you posted, I'd like to see a button "more info" that we could hide description inside
<tgm4883> It bugs me that you can see a description on the main screen for a series you might be trying to catch up on (spoiler alert anyone?)
<popey> heh, good point
#ubuntu-tv 2012-01-13
<wizbit> jeeze there is a channel already
<wizbit> mythtv ftw
<tgm4883> ...
<tgm4883> ok
<wagnerrp> tgm4883: did you ever recall seeing a 'dustybin' in the mythtv-users channel years back?
<wagnerrp> about once a week he would come in, taking about some new device that would be the "perfect frontend"
<wagnerrp> and he would keep pestering iamlindoro, so iamlindoro would start banning him for longer and longer durations
<wagnerrp> well at some point way back, 'dustybin' decided to change his name to 'wizbit'
<L-----D> hey wagnerrp
<wagnerrp> hello
<tgm4883> wagnerrp, I don't remember him
<nerochiaro> Saviq: Kaleo: pushed some more fixes to the shell branch. would be nice to get some feedback or even a review. In the meantime I'm moving on with other tasks, but I'll make them on top of that branch as having shaping makes it easier to debug and test.
<nerochiaro> Saviq: Kaleo: and by shell branch i mean lp:~unity-2d-team/unity-2d/unity-2d-shell-shaped/
<Kaleo> ok
<Saviq> nerochiaro, I have one thing already: don't set the shell size to its childrens' width
<Saviq> nerochiaro, just make it fullscreen all the time
<nerochiaro> Saviq: sounds good
<nerochiaro> Saviq: done
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: is there a specific reason why in your Unity2dPanel thickness patch you don't keep setting fixed[Width|Height] to a value matching the thickness ?
<Saviq> nerochiaro, he's flying right now
<nerochiaro> Saviq: ah
<nerochiaro> Saviq: i'll poke him monday i guess then
<Saviq> nerochiaro, can you point me at the code? maybe I will find something?
<nerochiaro> Saviq: check PanelManager::instantiatePanel
<nerochiaro> basically he replaced setThickness for setFixedHeight
<nerochiaro> i think both are needed
<nerochiaro> (or at least putting both solve the issue)
<Saviq> why would you need to set height? it's anchored to top and bottom of the shell?
<Saviq> nerochiaro, ^?
<nerochiaro> Saviq: well, i don't understand exactly where the bug comes from, but if the panel doesn't have the height fixed whenever it's showing some menu in it it will expand vertically to maybe 1/3 of the screen, and never come back to its normal size
<nerochiaro> Saviq: you can try it by launching unity-2d-panel from the shell+shape branch
<nerochiaro> and i just verified that by adding a setFixedHeight stops the problem from happening
<nerochiaro> so for now i'm going on with that workaround and working on the actual task (changing the size of the dash with the window menu buttons)
<Saviq> oh that
<Saviq> setFixedHeight looks required for the panel, yeah
<nerochiaro> do you understand why, though ?
<Saviq> not yet
<nerochiaro> ok, i'll keep fixed size for now. let me know if you manage to find out what's going on
<Saviq> nerochiaro, so I'm thinking WM does something to the panel, and setThickness doesn't set the maximum / minimum height
<Saviq> and I'm thinking maybe it should
<nerochiaro> Saviq: i'm not sure about the WM, it usually leaves alone the dock windows, and the panel is a dock window
<Saviq> nerochiaro, thinking again... indicators?
<nerochiaro> Saviq: indicators or xembedded legacy tray icons ?
<Saviq> yup, one of them
<Saviq> let me kill remmina
<Saviq> actually the menu bar
<Saviq> if I hover the panel (reveal the menus)
<Saviq> then it expands
<nerochiaro> Saviq: yep, or press the alt key
<Saviq> reproducible 100%
<Saviq> yup, exactly
<Saviq> I'll have a look
<nerochiaro> Saviq: yes. but my original question was "what does it expand vertically?"
<nerochiaro> because setting fixed height seems like a workaround for the real issue: the menubar expanding vertically
<Saviq> nerochiaro, the menu bar applet must be broken - it expands for some reason
<Saviq> and forces the panel to expand to fit it
<nerochiaro> right, makes sense. so the real fix should be in the menubar applet
<Saviq> yup
<nerochiaro> we're just hiding the problem with fixedheight
<Saviq> I'll have a look
<nerochiaro> thank you
<mhall119> re
<mhall119> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixiepixel/6676837595/
<LABcrab> Hey!  How does Ubuntu TV work?
<LABcrab> But my satellite provider makes me get those clunky PVRs!
<mhall119> LABcrab: what was shown at CES was a demo, not production ready code
<LABcrab> mhall119: Oh, well, hello again.  :)  Can't Ubuntu TV be used on a PC with, say, 24 inches LED monitor?
<mhall119> the features made for it are being merged back into Unity itself
<LABcrab> Windows Media Centre or Front Row much?
<mhall119> yes, you will be able to run it from a PC
<mhall119> in fact, it was being run from a PC at the show
<mhall119> but again, its concept code at this point
<mhall119> you can try it out though, the code is available
<LABcrab> Is it like sudo apt-get install ubuntu-tv?
<mhall119> http://www.ubuntu.com/tv/contributors
<mhall119> there's a PPA run by someone else, you can get it that way if you want, but those packages aren't from Canonical
<mhall119> LABcrab: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/how-to-install-ubuntu-tv-right-now-via-ppa/
<LABcrab> For example, Telus here uses Microsoft.  i hope it doesn't mean fragmentation, such as being forced to use one platform or another.
<mhall119> LABcrab: it'll be up to the OEMs and content providers to either agree to standards or not
<mhall119> Ubuntu is just trying to offer them something to agree on
<LABcrab> Such as being able to choose an OS?
<LABcrab> i also don't mind little devices like the Apple TV.  They're pretty and small compared to the bulky PVRs.
<mhall119> yes, or at least an interface that can be implemented by a third party oS
<LABcrab> Or even the concept of using an app for each provider, although i prefer native applications.
<mhall119> Ubuntu TV wants to provide a single app for each media type, not each media source
<mhall119> instead, there would be a movie "Lens" in Unity, and then each provider would have their own "Scope" to feed into it
<LABcrab> So the TV will be a computer in the future?
<mhall119> yes
<mhall119> some already are
<mhall119> some TVs (the Bravia I think) already run Linux by default
<wagnerrp> a good number of TVs already run some blend of Linux mixed with busybox
<wagnerrp> do some searching, youll find a bunch of lawsuits of BB vs. X TV manufacturer
<wagnerrp> for violating GPL and not releasing their source
<LABcrab> "Smart" TVs.  Yeah, there's already fragmentation.  Sony has this type of TV, LG has this type, Samsung this, Dynex that.  Apps for one TV won't work on another, necessarily.
<davilla> sounds like typical linux distro :)
<LABcrab> Not really.  That's like saying "Android with HTC Sense" versus "Android with LiveScape" etc.
<mhall119> LABcrab: that's what Ubuntu TV hopes to fix, one platform across multiple devices and multiple content providers
<mhall119> even better, the same platform will be available on PCs, and soon on tablets, phones, and in-vehicle-infotainment devices
<LABcrab> True.
<mhall119> which means Netflix only needs to write one app for Ubuntu
<mhall119> and they get it everywhere
<LABcrab> Sweet.
<LABcrab> But even with smartphones, it's uncertain whether Windows will return as a leader.
<mhall119> they certainly have an uphill climb
<LABcrab> i'm pretty confident they will shake things up.
<LABcrab> As long as they don't just have one or two phones per carrier, versus half a dozen of BlackBerries and dozens of Androids.
<LABcrab> They tend to have few phones.  Unfortunately, no support for video calling yet.
<wagnerrp> mhall119: the problem with that concept is it means ubuntu tv could only be distributed in binary form, and the hardware would need to be locked to signed binaries
<LABcrab> In all of this, why is Ubuntu focusing on TVs instead of, say, smartphones?
<wagnerrp> lest someone recompiled the netflix app to bypass DRM
<wagnerrp> or recompiled the X server to fake direct rendering, and again bypass DRM
<LABcrab> Free software purists can either choose not to use Netflix, or buy DRM free movies.
<wagnerrp> its got nothing to do with being a purist
<wagnerrp> DRM is either implemented on a locked down system outside the control of the user, or is implemented by someone who doesnt know what theyre doing
<mhall119> wagnerrp: why is that?
<wagnerrp> the whole reason Microsoft spent all that time developing their protected video path is to prevent any user-run application from intercepting the video
<LABcrab> But what about the issue of recording movies?
<wagnerrp> what issue?
<LABcrab> Should recording copies be legal, but not distributing them and/or keeping them longer than entitled to?
<LABcrab> Copyright?
<mhall119> wagnerrp: true, but I'm hoping the content creators will come around to realizing that DRM costs more than it's worth and opt for more, cheaper downloads instead
<LABcrab> Good point.
<wagnerrp> ATSC and clear QAM is unencrypted, and you can do whatever you want with them, copyright or otherwise
<LABcrab> DVDs can be copied easy as pie.
<LABcrab> And the good ol' days of recordable cable TV.
<mhall119> wagnerrp: the music industry has already accepted teh futility of DRM
<wagnerrp> 'copy freely' cable content is marked with no DRM, so a cablecard tuner will allow you to do whatever you want with them, copyright or otherwise
<mhall119> hopefully the movie/tv industry follows suit soon
<LABcrab> i don't know if my PVR has DRM.
<davilla> in about 10 years, maybe
<wagnerrp> WMC is the only application currently allowed to handle DRM'd cable at the moment, since theyre the only system with guaranteed protection from the card all the way to the display
<mhall119> probably not, because you have no real way of getting stuff off your PVR
<wagnerrp> and as far as DVDs and blurays, you cant copy them without breaching DRM (and the DMCA)
<LABcrab> Oh a new Google now?
<LABcrab> So what's the point of a PVR that you have to carry around to show the shows to other people?
<mhall119> recording stuff to watch at home later
<LABcrab> That's not like a VCR where you just take the tapes!  Which are way smaller than the PVR, by the way.
<LABcrab> mhall119: Which requires the PVR to be on 24/7/365.
<mhall119> LABcrab: which is why your PVR probably doesn't bother with DRM
<mhall119> LABcrab: yes, most of them are
<LABcrab> Unless it's on a timer controlled by the TV.
<wagnerrp> LABcrab: for instance, the late model tivos... they may run linux, but linux never has access to the content in unencrypted form
<wagnerrp> all decryption, decoding, and compositing is done within a controlled path in the video hardware
<LABcrab> Doesn't HDMI show an SD picture if a device doesn't support PVP?
<wagnerrp> no, thats something called the 'image constraint token', which is as yet rarely used
<wagnerrp> and is effectively independent from HDMI
<wagnerrp> HDMI supports HDCP, and if certain formats such as bluray have the ICT active, and the player cannot authenticate an HDCP pathway all the way to the TV, it will downscale the content
<LABcrab> To 480p?
<wagnerrp> something like that
<wagnerrp> as far as i know, there are only a handful of movies that currently activate that
<LABcrab> So some of them still work in 1080p?
<wagnerrp> most studios have announced they have no intention of ever enabling that feature
<LABcrab> Does that mean 0p or 480p or 1080p?
<wagnerrp> without that flag, the player will operate as normal
<wagnerrp> with that flag, it will downscale any unencrypted digital or analog outputs to something like 480p, i dont know if thats the actual resolution
<LABcrab> Okay, so you're telling me it's a good thing, that most content can play at 1080p?
<wagnerrp> as far as normal behavior, at least my PS3 will not display anything at all over HDMI without HDCP
<LABcrab> With or without HDCP?
<wagnerrp> at least that was the case last time i tried it in late 2006
<wagnerrp> looks like its actually 540p
<wagnerrp> so its quartered
<LABcrab> qHD.
<wagnerrp> anyway, it all comes down to the same issue as when i was talking about form factor (the smarts being a removable module on the back side of the TV, rather than embedded)
<wagnerrp> is ubuntutv is intended for the mass market that doesnt know and doesnt care about DRM, so long as their stuff works
<wagnerrp> or is it intended for the tinkerers
<wagnerrp> there is news on tech sites all the time about people jailbreaking their smart phones
<wagnerrp> but i would bet the number of owners who actually do so is probably somewhere around 5-10%
<wagnerrp> and likely a good portion of them never bother to actually load anything 3rd party on after doing so
<LABcrab> Except for Netflix.
<wagnerrp> how is netflix different?
<wagnerrp> netflix streaming exists on silverlight, which means OSX (with a closed source display interface) and Windows (with a closed source display interface and protected path)
<wagnerrp> and it exists on a whole plethora of locked down systems from game consoles, to locked down STBs, to locked down cell phones
<wagnerrp> while some of those platforms can be jailbroken, doing so causes the netflix application to cease function
<LABcrab> What about Android?
<wagnerrp> the application detects an unauthenticated firmware, and refuses to function
<LABcrab> :(
<wagnerrp> which is what every good consumer's reaction should be after grasping the consequences of DRM
<LABcrab> In several cases, it seems nothing can be done about it.
<wagnerrp> although at least in this instance, DRM is used to protect content available through a subscription service
<wagnerrp> as opposed to something like DVD/Bluray which is your own, purchased, personal property
<tgm4883> wagnerrp, I wasn't following the whole conversation, but my cyanogenmod based rom plays netflix
<wagnerrp> oh? everything i had heard in the past said video players, ebook readers, and the like shut down on jailbroken phones
<tgm4883> wagnerrp, nope, works fine here
<tgm4883> I just verified
<wagnerrp> the only think i could find in reference was some kludgy work around for getting netflix to work again on a broken iphone
<wagnerrp> *thing
<tgm4883> wagnerrp, I just had to install it from the market
<tgm4883> pretty simple
<tgm4883> hulu works as well
<wagnerrp> no one at hulu really seems to care about making a secure system
<wagnerrp> its like someone over there high up realizes that if someone actually wants to rip them off, they going to instead go to somewhere else with higher quality
<wagnerrp> so whatever security you have through flash/rtmpe is just a 'good show' for the content owners
<LABcrab> Ciao room!
#ubuntu-tv 2012-01-15
<robclark> hmm, apparently ubuntu-tv doesn't block the screensaver
<davilla> hey robclark :)
<robclark> hey davilla
<robclark> fwiw, ubuntu tv runs on arm ;-)   https://github.com/robclark/qtmobility-1.1.0
<davilla> nice
<MrChrisDruif> robclark; and that is a problem?
<robclark> nope :-)
<MrChrisDruif> About the screensaver I mean
<robclark> (well, screensaver part is if it comes on half way thru movie)
<davilla> was about to say :)
<robclark> totem does something to supress screensaver while playing, fwiw
<robclark> not sure exactly how, but ubuntu-tv really should do the same
<rsalveti> yup, mplayer also supports blocking screensaver
<davilla> as does xbmc :)
<robclark> I guess a lot of people find screensavers kicking in mid-movie as a bit annoying ;-)
<MrChrisDruif> That's true, so only suppress it during video playback?
<robclark> I think so.. well, I guess in TV form factor you probably don't want screensaver on by default anyways, but definitely surpress it during video playback
<rsalveti> at least with wdtv the screensaver is enabled by default when not playing any media
<MrChrisDruif> wdtv?
<MrChrisDruif> And screensaver on by default isn't a bad idea
<rsalveti> media center
<rsalveti> from Western Digital
<MrChrisDruif> Ah...kay
#ubuntu-tv 2013-01-07
<tgm4883> mhall119, is it just me, or does sharedmodel not support append using python 3 on 12.04?
<mhall119> tgm4883: what is sharedmodel?
<tgm4883> when adding results from a scope
<tgm4883> looks like its part of deemodel
<tgm4883> or deesharedmodel
<mhall119> oh
<tgm4883> it's the only thing I can think of here, the same code works fine on 12.10 using python 3, and that part of the code didn't actually change between my python 2 and 3 port
<tgm4883> so it seems to be an issue only with sharedmodel with python 3 on 12.04
<tgm4883> model = search.props.results_model
<tgm4883> it comes from that
<mhall119> it could be, I think there may have been some hacks in the python2-gir code that may have been removed in the python3 version
<bobweaver> Oo
<mhall119> tgm4883: try .append_row
<tgm4883> mhall119, yea I tried that, it only accepts 2 things
<mhall119> that's in Dee.Model
<tgm4883> not 8
<tgm4883> IDK what it's looking for though
<mhall119> tgm4883: maybe pass it a list or tuple of the values?
<bobweaver> mhall119,  can scopes listen to other dbus things ?
<bobweaver> like com.canonical.whatever.gsshema.xml
<mhall119> bobweaver: yeah, they can listed to anything
<mhall119> listen
<tgm4883> hmm, not so much
<tgm4883> Expected GLib.Variant
<mhall119> :/
<mhall119> the C API shows both, so something's going wrong in the GIR translation
<mhall119> http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/c/dee/dee-1.0-DeeModel.html
<bobweaver> if you like have on com.canonical.Unity2d.Dash mythip-backend  it can listent to that and you can put that in python so there is no need to read extrenal files ?
<tgm4883> mhall119, bug report?
<mhall119> bobweaver: I'm not following
<tgm4883> mhall119, this sounds like something that isn't going to be fixed :/
<tgm4883> if it is in fact a bug
<mhall119> tgm4883: yeah, against libdee
<mhall119> tgm4883: it might be, something was done to make it work in python3
<tgm4883> ok, i'll file a bug report
<bobweaver> mhall119,  say I have on the path  com.canonical.Unity2d.Dash a Key that is  "mythip-backend"  can I use that somehow as a var in python in a lens or scope.  so like instead of hardcoding in a 192.168.whatever I can use that or instead of making a local file I can use that. :)
<bobweaver> key is set to string
<mhall119> bobweaver: oh, a dconf key? yeah you can read that
<bobweaver> mhall119,  I think that that would make things more intergrated with Unity
<mhall119> bobweaver: see the code example here: http://mhall119.com/2012/12/adding-privacy-setting-support-to-your-unity-lens/
<bobweaver> because then one can just pass the  com.canonical.Unity2d.Dash previews
<bobweaver> or other things like having the vars in the py set dconf stuff
<bobweaver> then user can also change this things or add things like say com.canonical.Unity2d.Dash add.video.source
<bobweaver> I will look at that example thanks
<bobweaver> << py noob
<mhall119> bobweaver: currently yes, in the future sandboxing might prevent it from being able to set those keys
<bobweaver> sweet
<tgm4883> mhall119, would I expect to be able to resolve it by installing the libdee version from 12.10?  because that doesn't fix it
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  you are tying to get the scope going on virtual thingy ?  and it is libdee ?
<tgm4883> yea
<tgm4883> new scope in 12.04
<mhall119> tgm4883: I wouldn't think so, it's probably in python3-gi, but filing the bug against libdee should get the right people looking into it
<tgm4883> ok
<mhall119> since both python2 and python3 are just using gir1.2-dee-1.0
<bobweaver> so I had this Great Idea that if I make a glib path and key for effects in qml. Then users could change all the ways that things are loading ect by using the dash config thingy that I made. but after spending 2 hours getting that going I found out that you can not set easing.type: <var here> waste of time lol
<bobweaver> making all these "effects" so that user can set it would be cool
<bobweaver> http://doc.qt.digia.com/qt/qml-propertyanimation.html#easing.type-prop
<bobweaver> I am just going to have to make a custon element I think
<tgm4883> mhall119, yep, gir1.2-dee-1.0. Installing the 12.10 version of that fixed it. Opened up https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dee/+bug/1096708
<mhall119> oh really? what version did you have?
<tgm4883> it was a fresh 12.04.1 vm install,  so probably 1.0.10
<tgm4883> 1.0.14 is in 12.10
<tgm4883> bobweaver, ^^
<tgm4883> mhall119, I'll do another clean install and verify
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  let me look at what I got
<bobweaver> libdee-1.0-4
<bobweaver> apt-cache policy libdee-dev
<bobweaver> libdee-dev:
<bobweaver>   Installed: 1.0.10-0ubuntu1
<bobweaver> maybe I should try to push unity up to that ?
<tgm4883> bobweaver, i'm installing again to verify it's just the one package and that a full update doesn't fix it
<tgm4883> since I forgot this was a fresh 12.04.1 VM install without updates
<bobweaver> ahh
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  what are deps on package ?
<tgm4883> should be a quick reinstall
<bobweaver> when you get a chance
<tgm4883> I didn't have to install any new deps
<tgm4883> just the one package I think
<tgm4883> I installed 2, but i think it's just the one
<tgm4883> bobweaver, mhall119 confirmed that the issue exists on a fully updated 12.04 vm, and that both packages need to be upgraded
<tgm4883> updated https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dee/+bug/1096708
<bobweaver> you know what thi is going to be a paing in the rear but I am going to try and upgrade all this to 12.10
<mhall119> tgm4883: nice, hopefully that'll make it easy for them to backport a fix
<bobweaver> or 13.04
<bobweaver> this is going to be hard to do but it is worth a shot
<mhall119> why will it be hard?
<bobweaver> because there where many changes to unity that made it so 2d would not build
<bobweaver> that is only reason that I am still on 12.04
<bobweaver> brb booting into new version
<dcope> are you all installing tv over 12.04 or 12.10?
<tgm4883> dcope, currently bobweaver has alpha code on 12.04
<dcope> tgm4883: ah, nice
<dcope> is there any timeframe for releases?
<tgm4883> dcope, IDK, you'd have to ask bobweaver ;)
<dcope> i'd like to contribute and test... finally bought parts for my htpc yesterday, just waiting for them to arrive
<bobweaver> yes dcope  it is just a messaround ppa nothing that is set in stone just personal
<dcope> ok
<bobweaver> dcope,  the ppa is u2t/bleedingedge
<dcope> yeah, still have it bookmarked
<dcope> don't think i'm going to be able to try the tuner stuff, i'm planning on cancelling directv once all my parts get in
<bobweaver> but again it just Ubuntu Tv Mock up that I used to make into something so that I could use it at home
<dcope> maybe tuner for digital if i can find a good antenna that is small
<bobweaver> dcope,  my antenna is made out of 2X4's and copper wire and solder it is 4 foot tall and ugly
<dcope> haha
<bobweaver> << can afford cable atm
<dcope> i can afford it but it's a useless expense. plus, directv is increasing their prices this year.
<dcope> i would like to get some sort of sabnzb integration with ubuntu tv
<A329> g'day you all
<A329> I think that this is a pretty nice project
<A329> I wanna participate it, and try it
<A329> I have a question regarding the hardware stuff needed:  can be used any kind of ARM / android devices ?
<A329> for isntanace I have an woxter tv 200 android set box
<A329> a woxter tv 200 android set box
<A329> if anyone have a bit experience with the ubuntu tv ecosystem I will appreciate his experience to talk me about the project just only to have a good start point
<A329> g'day anyone alive
<A329> ?
<A329> hi sjesek
<A329> hi shesek
<shesek> hey
<shesek> do I know you?
<A329> i am fine
<A329> nop I am new
<A329> I wanna gather experiences with people that works with ubuntu tv
<A329> hardware platform supported:  any ARM device with HDMI connector can be useed
<shesek> I'm afraid I'm just lurking around, I don't have much to do with ubuntu tv development
<shesek> or with ubuntu tv at all, really
<A329> thanks
<A329> sounds a nea project
<A329> neat
<A329> the problem are around the media sources
<A329> the ecosystem of services
<A329> he main problem that the whole manufacturing tv sets are trying to move people to a specific media content
<A329> and are different among platforms
<A329> is a war of "smart tv" solutions but it the media content does not converge in a standarization   will got a frustated solution
<A329> technically:  google tv,  android tv,    apple tv are pretty clouse technically  with different GUI
<A329> and I will don't buy the whole brands products in order to access all medias
<tgm4883> A329, I've got to go switch out a few power strips in 2 of our server cabinets at work, but I can probably answer most of your questions later
<A329> thks tgm4883
<mhall119> A329: TV is a tough business to crack, certainly
<mhall119> it's certainly going to take more than just a pretty UI
<A39> sorry
<A39> I lost the connection
<A39> I am A329
<A39> the main problem of smart tv is not the application implementation for itself
<A39> the huge problem that i see that the whole television set should have a standarization of source media to broadcast
<A39> smart tv solutions does not go to win if sony, LG, set top boxes, does not have the capabilities to share the same content
<A39> I am not talking about private  content
<A39> located at home
<A39> for instance should exist an amgnostic provider that serve  the medias
<A39> to all boxes like in radio internet approach we have vTuner pr skeezebox
<A39> or*
<tgm4883> A39, that is far more dependent on content providers than on manufacturers
<A329> sorry again here
<A329> the mini mac enter into suspense mode and I lost the connection
<A329> yep I am agree with you
<A329> this is a provider problem
<A329> but regarding the user
<A329> is a stoper of smart tech
<tgm4883> A329, not sure I follow what you are saying about the user
<A329> user = the customer that bought a tv set with smart tv
<A329> the content differ among tv brands
<A329> sony on its brand brodcast sony films
<A329> that LG does not have the chance to watch it
<A329> if we have a provider entity out of tv brands that sells access to source content
<A329> the customer chance to access it without depending tv set brand
<A329> something close to vtuner on radio
<A329> vnter are spread out sony, yamaha, denon....... what ever
<A329> and vtner will charge for the connection service to all brands
#ubuntu-tv 2013-01-08
<mhall119> bobweaver: tgm4883: http://ces.cnet.com/ces-videos/ about an hour in is the Samsung smart TV stuff
#ubuntu-tv 2013-01-09
<tgm4883> bobweaver, http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/05/hdhomerun-prime-is-the-first-cablecard-tuner-to-deliver-live-tv/
<bobweaver> cool stuff
<tgm4883> bobweaver, we should look at what it would take to build a upnp client into the dash
<bobweaver> fsda
<tgm4883> jlk;
<bobweaver> lkjh
<tgm4883> sdfg
<bobweaver> not sure how the 1st one got posted lol
 * tgm4883 shrugs
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  so I started making a Ubuntu SDK app kinda fun lots of bugs
<bobweaver> makes for more fun in the end
<tgm4883> nice
<jhodapp> I can speak that language
<jhodapp> iueriu
<bobweaver> lol
<bobweaver> poqwo
<jhodapp> :)
<jhodapp> you insult me!
<bobweaver> lol
<bobweaver> here is buggy sdk app that I wrote in the last 9 hours
<bobweaver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqW021vrTqg&webm=1
<bobweaver> I am trying to keep that all with the Ubuntu sdk tools but some of them are ..... but most are great.
<jhodapp> that's awesome bobweaver
<bobweaver> I like the theming options but it needs alot I mean alot of work
<bobweaver> I was thinking about making a api lib for it (Ubuntu SDK ) that is so that users can import  that
<bobweaver> import Ubuntu.Components.Apis 0.1
<jhodapp> bobweaver, yeah, it's been released early so that people can start working with it
<bobweaver> that is what I figured jhodapp
<bobweaver> jhodapp,  got time for a PM ?
<jhodapp> bobweaver, sure, I've got a min or 2
#ubuntu-tv 2013-01-10
<dcope> is there any remote support yet?
<dcope> bobweaver: nice
<dcope> bobweaver: btw, are you the lead on this?
<tgm4883> dcope, bobweaver isn't here right now, so he can't see your messages
<tgm4883> but yes, he is the lead on the unity work being done
<dcope> ah
<dcope> cool
<dcope> tgm4883: how stable is the build from the wiki?
<tgm4883> dcope, IDK, the best to run is probably from the PPA
<dcope> ah
<dcope> cool, i'll just install that one that bobweaver linked me to
<tgm4883> ok
<dcope> bunch of parts came in, about ready to build this htpc.. probably this weekend.
#ubuntu-tv 2013-01-11
<bobweaver> ping tgm4883
<bobweaver> So I am thinking about making a mythtv app for the phone.  just a little simple one and I was wondering what are the things that you use the most with myth ? also I am not sure if I should do 1 of 2 things.  1) if you are not on local how to get access to backend with out opening it up in router (port forwarding ect) 2)?  storage of the xml data base it self into a very small sqllight table is also a option for all the metadata and what n
<bobweaver> ot.  This would make it have to call TVdb and TMDB stight and not the backend.  Just not sure how I would even pass a video like that
<bobweaver> just wanted to get your thoughts on that
<bobweaver> maybe if I make a ssh client in app that way one can ssh into box and forward ports for phone ?  I sure that there is a myth mobile already maybe this is a bad idea lol
<tgm4883> bobweaver, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.mythtv&hl=en
<bobweaver> Thanks tgm4883
#ubuntu-tv 2013-01-13
<sirdancealot1> o/
<trijntje> Hi all. I'm thinking about writing a tv guide lens. Before I start, I want to make sure that a similar project does't already exist, so there's no duplicate effort
<trijntje> I've been looking around on launchpad but it looks like there is no such thing, is that correct?
<sirdancealot1> i wonder if theres any effort at all </troll
<sirdancealot1> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-r-tv-development http://www.doadjustyourset.com/2012/11/01/ubuntu-tv-uds-r-update/
<sirdancealot1> two todos i found today
<trijntje> sirdancealot1: thanks, it looks  there is some stuff for a tv program guide on the todo lists
<mhall119> trijntje: tgm4883 is already working on a TV guide lens using MythTV as a backend
<trijntje> mhall119: do you know where his code lives? I don't see anything about a TV guide on his launchpad https://code.launchpad.net/~tgm4883
<mhall119> trijntje: nope, you'd have to ask him
<trijntje> mhall119: thanks for the pointer, I'll shoot him an email
<tgm4883> bobweaver, ping
<tgm4883> trijntje, I've just got the scope portion written. I haven't started the lens portion yet
<tgm4883> trijntje, bobweaver was going to make one for me, I'm unsure if he's started on it yet. You should at least talk with him on what new layout features are available
<bobweaver> hey tgm4883
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  it is kinda hard at this time due to some things that are going on internal with Ubuntu TV
 * bobweaver is stuck between Rock and a Hard Place 
<bobweaver> You know the Hurry up and wait game
<bobweaver> hey tgm4883  I am not recording anything on myth tv atm but I can not change channels. what is up with that ? backend is up and says that there is nothing recording but yet I can only change 3 channels
<bobweaver> Like I can switch for  10_1 to 10_2 and 10_3 but nothing at all that is like 8.1 or 32.1
<bobweaver> Well that was crazy I tried to open up myth front end on backend and it says that all tuners are busy
<bobweaver> I am rebooting backend to see if that helps
<bobweaver> AllRight I got all my Channels back
<trijntje> hi tgm4883 and bobweaver
<bobweaver> Hello trijntje
<trijntje> A little bit of background: I want to create a tv guide lens to ship with the localised dutch ubuntu images, so I'm not specifically involved with ubuntu TV
<trijntje> I'm guessing that the same lens can be used on the TV and desktop interface?
<bobweaver> with myth tv ?
<bobweaver> trijntje,  it all depends on what you are using as a backend if I understand you righ t
<bobweaver> so you want to make a iso that is only for the dutch and uses mythtv as backend to read lens ?
<bobweaver> at any rate I do not want to be involved in anything carry's water in Nationalism. What can you tell me trijntje  that makes it not Nationalism ?
<trijntje> bobweaver: I just want to create a 'normal' tv guide lens, ie for use on the desktop.
<bobweaver> ahh
<bobweaver> in unity 3d or 2d  ?
<bobweaver> like you want the Rendering to look like a tvguide ?
<trijntje> 3d I think, since 2d is no longer available on the latest releases of ubuntu
<bobweaver> ok you will have to hack unity 3d then
<bobweaver> adding things like TileHorizantial.cpp  but make that for guide and also need to make a way that Unity knows that that is the render type that you want to render
<bobweaver> this can be dont in the lens its self
<bobweaver> trijntje,  what kinda lens have you made in the past ?
<trijntje> bobweaver: this would be my first lens. For now I'd be happy to get the functionality working in the default unity layout, without anything fance
<trijntje> *fancy
<trijntje> You were thinking something along these lines? http://askubuntu.com/questions/94490/what-is-the-api-for-new-lens-features-in-the-ubuntu-tv-alpha
<bobweaver> No that is all fake
<bobweaver> but Render type like that is possible
<bobweaver> right now if you take a look at this kens
<bobweaver> lens *
<bobweaver> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~davidc3/u2t/watchseries/view/head:/src/unity-lens-series
<bobweaver> See line 37
<bobweaver> and 40
<bobweaver> so in 3d there is three render types
<bobweaver> Coverflow
<bobweaver> and the 2 that are in that example
<bobweaver> but if you make a new rendering type then you can call tha t
<bobweaver> I do not think that you can call coverflow though because they took it out of 3d because it is not ready
<bobweaver> at anyrate if you want to just make a lens that works. Questions that I would ask myself is where am I getting my data from ? how do I want to render it to screen.  what is the effects that I want to put on it.  how can I take a data point and read from it in python so that dee knows what is going on ?
<bobweaver> things like that
<bobweaver> like if I am using mythtv I am going to query the backend If I am using youtube I am going to query youtube api
<bobweaver> what Am I going to pass to unity as iconhint mimetype uri name
<trijntje> bobweaver: yeah, first I should get more familiar with how lenses work. But if tgm4883 has the scope portion written I could just use that as backend and only write a simple lens right?
<bobweaver> well that all depends on what it is that you are using
<bobweaver> data source that is ^^
<trijntje> or are those scopes using mythtv as backend? I'm not very familiar with mythTV, but that would probably make the lens rather big :P
<bobweaver> if mythtv then yes you can use his api
<bobweaver> It all depends on where you want to get your data from
 * bobweaver knows nothing at all about dutch tv 
<bobweaver> the picture from the link you posted is Unity 2d
<bobweaver> it reads xml files that are hard coded at this point
<bobweaver> the file is called Epg.qml it is under the dash in the ubuntu tv mockup code.  I took it out of my stuff for now
<bobweaver> I use unity 2d with qml webview to just render a mythweb
<trijntje> bobweaver: it looks like mythtv has a bunch of grabbers for Dutch television, so I guess I'll use one of those
<trijntje> http://wiki.mythtv.nl/index.php/Grabbers
<bobweaver> http://imagebin.org/242788
<bobweaver> I just change from tv to desktop to tablet with this
<bobweaver> http://imagebin.org/242789
<trijntje> thats handy
<bobweaver> yes it is
<bobweaver> I can change any glib settings that there is from there
<bobweaver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJUFSgaX5E0
<bobweaver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QBr55htroA
<bobweaver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb8s7pSBu30
<bobweaver> Sorry about the sound I do not have the money for a good mic
 * bobweaver is super poor :) 
<trijntje> Thanks for your time bobweaver, you've given me a lot to think about. I'll go read some more and try to get a simple lens to work, and I'll contact you or tgm when I've gotten started
<bobweaver> Cool have fun with that
<bobweaver> trijntje,  you may also look to people like davidcalle and mhall119  mhall119  knows alot about lens also
<bobweaver> I think he wrote the guide on wiki.ubuntu.com but I could be wrong about tha t
<bobweaver> that *
<bobweaver> trijntje,  thanks for looking at my videos :) even though I am american :P
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  how do I turn down vol in myth just the vol that the player is using
<bobweaver> ?
<trijntje> bobweaver: not everybody speaks English, so we can't all use the same system. Some of us need localised apps ;)
<trijntje> See you later, have a nice evening!
<bobweaver> that is why there is things like u2d.tr("text goes here to translate ")
<bobweaver> but it was nice to meet you
#ubuntu-tv 2014-01-10
<chihchun> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/cmV4LnRzYWlAY2Fub25pY2FsLmNvbQ.13elrs50vlnvut0vfs211rlkec
