#ubuntu-artwork 2006-02-13
<derek[] > People, if you're using linux, please have a look here: http://derek.shorturl.com/temp/typeclarity_compare.html
<klepas> derek[] : what OS do you run?
<derek[] > I'm running Ubuntu 5.04, Gnome
<klepas> okay
<klepas> also take into considering that GNOME uses a different font renderer than KDE uses for example
<derek[] > i see
<klepas> therefore, noting that the upper example is "linux" is actually not really all that precise
<klepas> it would be more accurate to write "GNOME
<klepas> *"GNOME:
<klepas> ack
<klepas> can't spell this eve :)
<klepas> also, GNOME runs under UNIX too, so you would get the same rendering
<klepas> and finally
<klepas> go to System -> Preferences -> Fonts and configure your fonts and their rendering how you see fit. :)
<klepas> and one observation, "Is there a way to make the text render as crisp and fine (neatly kerned) as it looks on windows?"
<klepas> what you're after is a actually a lack of a feature
<derek[] > :)
<derek[] > I know
<derek[] > antialiasing
<klepas> windows anti-aliasing is poor and therefore displays poorly
<derek[] > when antialiasing is applied to smaller fonts, it looks 'blotted'
<klepas> but yes, you can change rendering of anti-aliasing in the fonts configuration dialogue under GNOME
<klepas> yes
<derek[] > and I don't like it
<klepas> because there are several areas which must not be blurred in a font
<klepas> others may
<klepas> at least with truetype
<derek[] > ok, let me update the page
<klepas> andyfitz can tell you a lot more about it (he does font design)
<klepas> :)
<derek[] > (and I did play with the font settings in gnome.. didn't help)
<klepas> oh?
<derek[] > also, note that the kerning is very bad
<derek[] > bad kerning with antialiasing on small fonts can make it look horrible
<klepas> yep
<klepas> that is something you cannot fix under linux
<klepas> because it's inbuilt into the fonts
<klepas> and windows will have it too shortly (better rendering). iirc
<derek[] > you mean antialiasing ?
<klepas> yep
<derek[] > damn :)
<klepas> btw -> http://davyd.ucc.asn.au/images/gpl3-reloaded.jpg
<klepas> :P
<klepas> the GPL! Reloaded!
<derek[] > klepas, refresh: http://derek.shorturl.com/temp/typeclarity_compare.html
<klepas> featuring RMS and my arm
<derek[] > ;)
<klepas> derek[] : change your global gnome fonts (other than the monospace one) to bistream vera sans and then to size 8
<klepas> :)
<derek[] > ok
<derek[] > Hi
<derek[] > Hi
<derek[] > How do you install a new ttf font in Ubuntu?
<mhz> usually, with apt
<mhz> or synaptics
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-02-14
<jsgotangco> hmm yasis looks great
<derek[] > what's yasis?
<jsgotangco> icon set
<derek[] > k
<mhz_food> jsgotangco: i still prefer the more refreshing look of art.gnome.org/themes/icon/1100
<jsgotangco> dropline?
<jsgotangco> the look like clearn gartoon :)
<mhz_food> hehehe
<jsgotangco> s/clearn/clean
<mhz_food> a little bit
<derek[] > give the link to yasis
<jsgotangco> mhz_food, did you really appear on tv for edubuntu?
<derek[] > plz
<mhz_food> well, maybe is because i am too into 3 sets for edubuntu levels + xfce instead of gnome :)
<mhz_food> jsgotangco: yup, 3 minutes
<mhz_food> jsgotangco: why?
<jsgotangco> derek[] , http://art.gnome.org/themes/icon/1168
<jsgotangco> wow
<mhz_food> too ugly?
<derek[] > thx
<derek[] > on TV in which country?
<jsgotangco> hey at least you got to be on TV and we don't :)
<mhz_food> jsgotangco: the note was about Free as in Freedom. I talked almost 2 minutes about Ubuntu and Edubuntu. That was in a tv program called Invasion, 'Chilevision' Channel (Chile)
<jsgotangco> haha
<jsgotangco> nice title
<jsgotangco> "Invasion Chilevision"
<mhz_food> :0
<jsgotangco> like a sci-fi B Movie
<mhz_food> the program: Invasion
<mhz_food> Channel: Chilevision
<mhz_food> country: Chile
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> "Invasion Chilevision"
<mhz_food> okis
<jsgotangco> :D
<jsgotangco> invade what?
<mhz_food> jsgotangco: the producer promised me to provide a MPG file of it but I have been waiting for almost 2 months
<derek[] > i see
<mhz_food> and still nothing
<mhz_food> :(
<mhz_food> jsgotangco: however, if we can carry out out little event at the end of april, I am sure I will have TV and Radio coverage
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<mhz_food> jsgotangco: oh,, and I just got a phone call requesting I write a 2nd doc about Edubuntu for a magazine delievered at over 500 schools for free
<mhz_food> (they had one of my articles issued in December)
<jsgotangco> wow
<mhz_food> next issue is for March
<jsgotangco> did you get paid for that?
<mhz_food> nope :(
<jsgotangco> doh
* mhz_food never gets paid
<jsgotangco> i was given money once
<jsgotangco> well not paid
<mhz_food> I am even selling my Zaurus SL-5500 and my Fujitsu B2175 :(
<jsgotangco> jeezz
<jsgotangco> don't sell the zaurus
* jsgotangco used to be in openzaurus
* mhz_food loves the Z but... 
<mhz_food> congrats!
<jsgotangco> i'd  love to get a 5500 again
<jsgotangco> now i regret selling mine a few years ago
<mhz_food> jsgotangco: well, mine is perfect shape
<mhz_food> :)
<jsgotangco> argghh
<derek[] > bbl
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-02-18
<artnay> hey guys, how are you?
<artnay> I finally managed to get one computer functional, two to go... ;)
<Tm_T> artnay: yay!
<artnay> how come unity-no-red isn't proposed as the default metacity theme? have you tried it?
<derek_> Hi
<mhz> http://handprint.com/HP/WCL/color2.html
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-02-19
<klepas> moin
<Mizar> hi all
<Mizar> where can I find an image or thumbnail with:  download Ubuntu ?
<artnay> hey
<artnay> check out http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/06/02/14/151215.shtml and grep omeg
<Tm_T> hmm
<Tm_T> so true
<artnay> I should update this one to dapper
<Tm_T> "this one" ?
<artnay> I was on the verge of installing damnsmall on this computer, but decided to stick with ubuntu
<artnay> P3 500 MHz & 128 MB
<artnay> I've disabled lots of services, uninstalled programs (due the 4,3 GB HD), compiled a new kernel etc.
<artnay> still lagging a bit
<Tm_T> ah
<Tm_T> 2.6.15 kernel is faster than 2.6.12 (atleast here)
<artnay> it's because of memory, I'll get some old SDRAMs hopefully on this week
<mhz> artnay: hey
<artnay> I'm waiting for a new mobo from Asus
<Tm_T> we do need some "bosses" here
<artnay> mhz: hi, long time no irc
<Tm_T> someone to say what to do
<artnay> Tm_T: that's about canonical
<Tm_T> aye
<artnay> they haven't covered that area yet
<mhz> artnay: what if you did: a) install ubuntu 'server install', b) install xubuntu-desktop, c) the apps you need 
<artnay> I think it was klepas who said he was told they're getting a manager some time soon
* mhz has lived with 3 to 9 GB HD's alll his geek life
<artnay> at LCA
<Tm_T> artnay: yay!
<artnay> mhz: it's that stupid ubuntu-desktop
<artnay> it depends on lots of things that I do not need
<mhz> artnay: yeah, I only keep it because I test edubuntu
<mhz> artnay: however, I am working on an edubuntu-lite :)
<artnay> well I'm not going to stay with this comp for a long time, that's for sure
<mhz> (so far, it will install xfce4)
<artnay> waiting for RMA
<mhz> RMA ??
<artnay> hopefully it won't take weeks anymore
<mhz> xubuntu-desktop is aimed to be free of gnome
<artnay> xfce is fine, but I was thinking some more extreme such as ion
<artnay> so I can grab off a few SDRAMs ;)
<artnay> so the next icon set... would it be too much of fork if the *yasis theme would use some tango action icons? that way you'd have a more unified desktop when there's lots of tango skins for different applications
<artnay> take firefox as an example, and what user sees while looking at the default ubuntu packaged fx. it would blend into desktop that way
<artnay> well not maybe 100 percently, but still the action icons would be the same and would probably make the user experience more sane
<artnay> any thoughts?
<artnay> oh crap, gnome-look seems to be down (at least for me). does anyone have a package for metacity theme called unity? what's the license?
<artnay> and how thick should the metacity border be? does usability team have a word on that?
<artnay> so does gnome-look work for you? it replies but http doesn't seem to be responsive
<artnay> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Evaluation/MetacityTheme - unity is now added
<artnay> any idea why gfxboottheme has its own title on /Artwork?
<artnay> damn, I can't help it I find /Artwork hard to navigate
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-02-12
<Falladir> where can I find the people who work on the Human theme?
<Falladir> the default window decorations for Feisty Herd 3 have some nasty warts
<stochastic> Hey room, I'm in the process of trying to package some icons for a theme but I'm having some troubles finding where the icons in the main ubuntu menu (the one beside the Internet category in particular) are located
<darkmatter> stochastic, <iconthemename>/<size>/categories
<darkmatter> just use tango, tangerine, or the gnome icons as reference (they're the most inclusive for icon coverage)
<stochastic> darkmatter: the Internet icon I've replaced and installed the new theme but it's still using the old icon in the menu
<stochastic> all the other icons have changed
<darkmatter> hmmm.... what theme are you using as a guide/template?
<stochastic> I've taken Human and Gnome icons and put them together into one big folder and am slowly replacing all the files in them
<darkmatter> ahhh.
<stochastic> what puzzles me is that all the other category icons have behaved like you would expect
<stochastic> but not Internet
<darkmatter> perhaps a missing symlink
<stochastic> do you know where the config file is for the menu that way I can see what icon it's pulling up and trouble shoot from there
<darkmatter> there should be 5 seperate links to applications-internet.<svg or png>
<stochastic> yup I've got all 5
<darkmatter> hmmm
<darkmatter> does the theme have a cache file?
<darkmatter> icon-theme.cache in the top directory
<stochastic> wow, wait now that I am checking each size (24x24 etc) I realized that I hadn't switched the 22x22 size yet
<stochastic> my bad
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> that'll do it
<stochastic> yup
<stochastic> thanks though
<darkmatter> lol.. anytime
<darkmatter> I'm just kinda fighting with the pixmap engine atm
<darkmatter> troy_s, ping?
<troy_s> go
<troy_s> darkmatter: ?
<darkmatter> yo'
<darkmatter> question regarding text entries with the pixmap engine
<troy_s> stochastic: Look at freedesktop and how the icon naming scheme works.
<troy_s> Yes shoot.
<troy_s> as in input boxes?
<darkmatter> I've got a very nice entry done up... but am trying to get an overlay applied so the shadows show up properly
<darkmatter> troy_s, yup
<troy_s> stochastic: The 'device' that controls icons is the index.theme file at the root of the icon direcotry.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Ok so?
<troy_s> darkmatter: problem?
<darkmatter> because as is.... the base color covers the central part of the pixmap
<troy_s> stochastic: You basically need to follow the icon naming scheme _AND_ include the names for some legacy apps.
<darkmatter> thus... no shadows.. one sec.. Ill past together the images n upload them
<troy_s> so your have your root image
<troy_s> and your overlay
<troy_s> what do you mean by base colour?
<troy_s> in the overlay?
<troy_s> Ok type the stuff... I am off to watch a movie with wife.
<troy_s> I'll reply when I am back.
<darkmatter> troy_s, just a sec... imageshack is being slow
<darkmatter> troy_s, http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/387577231/
<darkmatter> didnt bother to scale up the correct images (right side)... but thats "close enough" of a visual... basically, the shadow is in the overlay (I even tried by adding it to the root image)
<darkmatter> but the base color (as in base[NORMAL}, rtc in gtk terms... in laymans terms the color behind text) hides it
<darkmatter> I need to get them to render to look like the right side of that shot
<darkmatter> the dang thing is hiding my part of the boarder and completely obscuring the shadows
<darkmatter> 'lo BHSPitMonkey
<BHSPitMonkey> yo
<darkmatter> hey... you have any experience with the pixmap engine?
<darkmatter> brb
<darkmatter> BHSPitMonkey, ignore the lazy unscaled pasting... but do you have any clue as to how to get the <left> to behave like the <right> http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/387577231/ ??? (the right is the actual root image and overlay... basic idea of how the entries should be rendering)
<darkmatter> it seems that the base color of the gtk insists on covering the work I sid on the entries
<darkmatter> *did
<BHSPitMonkey> no clue
<darkmatter> hrmm
<troy_s> dark
<troy_s> darkmatter: you still here?
<troy_s> darkmatter: Have you tried issuing them for all states and tried flatbox as well as box?
<darkmatter> ahhh... nope...I'll try in a second
<troy_s> Ok bed for me, but what I would try is capturing it from a higher level class
<troy_s> and try flat_box as well as box
<darkmatter> ok
<troy_s> Let me know how that works.
<troy_s> A) Try a higher level widget
<troy_s> B) Try both box and flat_box
<troy_s> then you can whittle away the possibilities from there.
<troy_s> Obviously also make sure that you are using an app that will render them correctly ;)
<darkmatter> klepas, ping!
<klepas> darkmatter: dinner, then i shall be back :)
<darkmatter> ok... I just added some bling to the text entries ;)
<darkmatter> damn overlay finally worked
<kwwii> moin
<darkmatter> hi kwwii
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/387720827/in/set-72157594488098254/ <--- it looks better in person (ignore the spin and comboentry buttons... there still the old versions)
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<kwwii> hi darkmatter
<kwwii> looks nice
<darkmatter> thanks... I'm still going to shoot myself over that typo though;)
<darkmatter> been trying to get the overlay working for three days..... I had it defined as an overlay_file instead of a file... that was silly
<kwwii> lol
<EmxBA> where can I download this theme shown on  http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/387720827/in/set-72157594488098254/ ?
<darkmatter> EmxBA, I have an older copy uploaded on gnome look.... gimmie a minute or two... I'll commit a few changes and update then link you to it
<klepas> darkmatter: back
<darkmatter> k
<kwwii> working on the usplash - gotta love it
<kwwii> 256 color is so 1980
<darkmatter> klepas, http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/387720827/ <-- starting to add the new widgets (text/frame/shadows)
<darkmatter> so I decided to give a minor update to the 'preview' built to keep the lil users at bay for a bit longer
<darkmatter> ;)
<darkmatter> klepas, the buttons still suck... and I havent commited the panel or menu changes yet... but http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=52050
<darkmatter> I want to try some textual effects with the menus though.... something to make text in prelight "pop"
<klepas> on a completely unrelated note i am so happy that xfce 4.4 terms right clicking and selecting open link in browser now respects my preferences and opens them in an existing browsers window as a tab
<klepas> on a related note
<klepas> YOU ROCK!
<klepas> :)
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> slowly starting to "bling without bling"
<darkmatter> klepas.... scarily enough (and no one _should_ actually notice when its done)... Glory is picking up some interesting influences
<darkmatter> mac like sensibility (but not mac design) and beos simplicity
<darkmatter> *ducks*
<kwwii> darkmatter: look nice
<kwwii> darkmatter: the only suggestion I have is to make the buttons in the windowdeco a bit bigger
<darkmatter> kwwii, thanks... still needs new buttons and a panel
<darkmatter> kwwii, thats not the themes window decor ;)
<klepas> darkmatter: you should inset the scrollbar more
<klepas> it's too light
<darkmatter> its going to use fair sized but simple glyphs
<klepas> i'd just darken some of the colours a bit
<kwwii> darkmatter: yeah, I almost thought as much
<klepas> ie. if i pop into Evolution identifying areas of the app by contrast and colours could be improved if the colours were a bit more heavier
<darkmatter> klepas... been working on that too... slightly shadowing the thumbs and adding a gradient trough
<klepas> scrollbar is almost the right size methinks
<klepas> i'm heavily tempted... to switch to this theme :P
<darkmatter> klepas... yes... a bit perhaps.... but the theme as is (the unfinishe will not show till widgets match up version) relies a lot on 3dish effects to make things pop
<klepas> i really, really <3 the text entry boxes dude
<darkmatter> kwwii, will us "x", arrowythingy up, arrowythingy down for the metacity buttons
<darkmatter> klepas... yeah... they kinda punch ya in the eye in a good way :P
<kwwii> darkmatter: sounds good
<darkmatter> kwwii... using the glyphs instead of full fledged buttons I can probably create a reasonably large target without adding to much weight to the titlebar (I dont like "fat" windows)
<kwwii> darkmatter: very good idea. makes it usable and pretty at the same time
* klepas adopts MorningGlory
<klepas> you better make those changes ^^
<darkmatter> I am
<elkbuntu> what are we all cooing over?
<darkmatter> elkbuntu, a slow but steady wip
<klepas> elkbuntu: sexy gtk widget-ry
<elkbuntu>  which link?
<darkmatter> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=52050
<darkmatter> only part sexay though
<darkmatter> I made the mistake of showing people screenies.. and as always happens... got hounded... so I spat out a cheap speed gimped preview... now I'm slowly updating it to keep them silent  ;O
<elkbuntu> hmm... a bit plain atm, but im sure that will change
<darkmatter> elkbuntu... its changing most definitely... the new textentries just got uploaded... just not in the screenies
<darkmatter> elkbuntu, screenie sucks... it only looks good in person... but http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/387720827/
<elkbuntu> ooh, glowy
<darkmatter> yup... starting to add gradients and shadows
<darkmatter> right now working on the "proper" widgets... then after I have something worthy of being a beta I can start messing with textual effects
<kwwii> for anyone who wants to see the usplash stuff
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/usplash_1.png
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/usplash_1a.png
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/usplash_1b.png
* klepas likes this one most -> http://sinecera.de/usplash_1.png
<kwwii> klepas: do you think that the white line around the text is too white?
<klepas> nah
<klepas> matches the white line around "ubuntu"
<kwwii> klepas: actually that line around ubuntu is what I meant ;-)
<kwwii> I thought about making it a bit darker
* kwwii eats a quick lunch, brb
<klepas> oh, sorry
<klepas> nah -- it's fine
<elkbuntu> usplash_1.png is my vote
<andreasn> kwwii: what's the status on integrating usplash, gdm and desktop-splash? I recall reading something about it in the wiki quite some time ago.
<PingunZ> kwwii, why did you blur the text gloss ?
<kwwii> andreasn: integrating as in making them look alike?
<andreasn> yes, so you don't bounce from screen to screen
<andreasn> more like now-the-computer-starts-up
<andreasn> just checking if there is some concrete plans for that in this release
<andreasn> it would rock quite hard
<kwwii> andreasn: no idea...more of a hardware thing I guess
<kwwii> I know sabdfl would love it
<kwwii> the usplash has to be black
<kwwii> there is no way around that
<andreasn> yeah, I guess the boot is quite a tech problem in itself right now
<kwwii> exactly
<andreasn> can't really remember where I read it in the wiki either
<kwwii> gotta reboot, brb
<kwwii> re
<troy_s> kwwii how goes the bikeshed?
<kwwii> troy_s: wonderfull :-)
<kwwii> -l
<kwwii> updated the usplash
<kwwii> waiting for the package to appear
<troy_s> pulling gdm now.
<troy_s> are you running edgy?
<troy_s> i can't seem to get bloody vmware up
<troy_s> grr.
<troy_s> what are you running kwwii?  kubuntu or ubuntu on that lappy of yours?
<troy_s> kwwii did you merge alef's fix yet?
<troy_s> and if not, should i branch off of theirs?
<troy_s> nevermind
<kwwii> troy_s: it should have been included already
<troy_s> its merged by daniel.
<troy_s> pulling now.
<troy_s> and kwwii
<kwwii> exactly :-)
<troy_s> wtf is the status of the bloody
<kwwii> he works for me now :p
<troy_s> hasty gl face browser?
<kwwii> no idea
<kwwii> haven't heard much about it in a while
<kwwii> guess I should ping macslow
<troy_s> Lord...
<troy_s> classic
<troy_s> it seems everyone is obsessed with this 'pursuit of eyecandy' not realizing that the apple designers actually try to do it with a functional / feedback related orientation.
<troy_s> this vaguely reminds me of the video game industry after wolfenstein 3d.
<kwwii> lol
<andreasn> troy_s: what problems are you encountering with vmware?
<kwwii> finishing up the edubuntu stuff now
<troy_s> andreasn: It won't load
<troy_s> kwwii Did mark get you on Edubuntu now too?
<andreasn> troy_s: I got problems with the current packages, said it couldn't find some kernel stuff
<andreasn> so I had to move some stuff around manually
<troy_s> andreasn: I wonder if it has to do with the recent kernel update.
<troy_s> It simply won't load at my end on edgy 64.
<troy_s> Which is odd.
<troy_s> Unfortunately, I don't have the bloody time to dick with it right now.
<troy_s> Grr... why the hell doesn't a symbollic link work for gdm themes?
<troy_s> kwwii Arrgggh
<troy_s> kwwii Well that poorly coded xml file is a nightmare beyond repair in this short time.  The main problem is that they use fixed sized fonts which is going to be problematic if everything else scales around it
<troy_s> either you end up with a logon (on a high res monitor) with a very small bar / etc. or we fix it to scale and the font remains small.
<kwwii> troy_s: ok, that is life
<troy_s> Its really stupid.
<kwwii> luckily kde doesn't use hard coded font sizes
<troy_s> Well GNOME shouldn't either.
<kwwii> it just gets totally messed up ones from the Xserver
<kwwii> :p
<troy_s> You _can_, and the buffoonary did so.
<troy_s> Yeah it should take system defaults.
<troy_s> I won't name names, but one of them is worth half a billion dollars.
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> I think he's worth more than that in the meantime
<troy_s> My gut instinct tells me to change them all to scale
<kwwii> so he must be doing something right
<troy_s> and let the 'font' issues arise as bugs.
<kwwii> not a bad idea either
<kwwii> as long as we can still revert if we have to
<troy_s> something != all_things
<troy_s> well... reverting is handled by bzr.
<troy_s> It needs a tidy
<troy_s> and your desire to say add 5% round to the entry bar is pretty simple
<troy_s> just requires the svgs
<kwwii> ok, http://sinecera.de/edubuntu_pics.tar.gz
<kwwii> the usplash for edubuntu
<kwwii> well, the svg is not the problem
<troy_s> So if you are doing the artwork for Edubuntu, how many folks have their noses bent out of shape in Edubuntu land?
<kwwii> getting it in the XML is
<troy_s> XML is dead easy
<troy_s> for gdm
<kwwii> lol, not too many :-)
<kwwii> it seems I am doing work for all the buntus
<troy_s> Somehow I doubt that.
<troy_s> Wholly Edubuntu Satanic edition.
<troy_s> Very 'firey' looking logo.
<troy_s> They have.
<troy_s> Well on the upside with you doing all of them
<troy_s> at least they will all have similarity now.
<troy_s> +1 on that.
<troy_s> the inconsistent palette issue was addressed during edgy, and hopefully will at least get a decent wallaper this time too so that is another +2
<troy_s> better than bloody dapper nightmare of 'gold' to 'tan' to 'dark hue'
<troy_s> (even if it is monochromatic -- still a battle that needed to be fought during edgy -- alebeit the bunkness wallpaper wasn't terrific)
<troy_s> kwwii are you doing the lsplashes?
<troy_s> because as it stands now, does edubuntu use the one with the lined paper?
<troy_s> (which would leave ubuntu/edubuntu in similar with kubuntu being different)
<lizardking> troy_s: Hi!
<troy_s> greets lizardking
<lizardking> troy_s: Good topic, friend!
<lizardking> ;)
<troy_s> Rather appropriate for the buntu's.
<lizardking> do you think?
<troy_s> ;)
<kwwii> troy_s: lsplash?
<kwwii> not sure I get you
<troy_s> logon splash
<lizardking> troy_s: oransun is now up and runnying on daniel's repo. I'm waiting for the renaming of the product in launchpad...
<kwwii> troy_s: yes, I plan to work on that too
<kwwii> any ideas for it?
<kwwii> lol, it is for satanic schools :-)
<troy_s> apparently
<kwwii> I think we could work out a plan to make all the *ubuntu artwork variants of the same design
<kwwii> but we need more time for that
<kwwii> like, one brown/tan, one blue/purple, and one orange/red version
<kwwii> of the same design all the way through
<troy_s> with a reoccuring motif yes...
<troy_s> that said, i imagine if you dicker with all of them they will get a certain element of that anyways.
<kwwii> true
<kwwii> I think that we should get feisty out the door asap and start immediatly working on the next stuff and plan from the beginning on to do it that way
<troy_s> great idea kwwiii
<troy_s> that said, there is only so much room so a certain amount of wiggling around inside the paramters is probably not ideal.
<troy_s> it would probably be a major accomplishment to get a _real_ palette for f+1 (read more than monochromatic)
<troy_s> perhaps that is a big enough 'revolution' lol
<kwwii> yeah, it would definitly be the right first step to take in any case
<troy_s> revisionist architecture, but architecture none-the-less
<troy_s> in an ideal world
<troy_s> with you in there
<troy_s> you could get the palette
<troy_s> get a few motifs in place
<troy_s> et.c
<kwwii> yeah, well, let's see how impressed sabdfl is after feisty :-)
<troy_s> it depends on how bipolar he is.
<troy_s> i don't imagine that he should be anything
<troy_s> it isn't like much is really changing
<troy_s> therefore he has no reason to turn bipolar.
<kwwii> to be honest, until this whole thing is done, I do not know what to expect as this is my first time doing everything
<troy_s> kwwii I woudn't sweat it.
<troy_s> The changes are pretty 'nonexistent' minor (despite being a lot of effort to get them done)
<kwwii> yeah, ture
<kwwii> true
<kwwii> the thing is that until now I did kubuntu totally on my own without any input from anyone
<kwwii> so now pleasing the guy paying me is important :p
<kwwii> and this job is important for me as it allows me to go beyond just working on kde
<kwwii> anyway...time for a film
<troy_s> kwwii -- indeed.
<troy_s> kwwii -- ultimately though, if you are concerned about the future prospects of jobs, you will really need to prove your abilities as a designer I believe -- that means pushing a bit.
<troy_s> (if not a lot, in the case of the *buntu's)
<kwwii> well, I would rather leverage my experience in the field than be a designer for all the buntus :-)
<kwwii> there are plans to hire others as well
* kwwii is afk for a film
<Viper550> hello everyone!
<nysosym> hi there :)
<nysosym> kwwii congratulations, i like the new usplash very much! :D
<Viper550> new usplash? on Kubuntu?
<nysosym> no ubuntu
<Viper550> is it just a refresh to Edgy?
<nysosym> more or less, anyway i like it :D
<kwwii> nysosym: cool, thanks :-)
<kwwii> it is mainly an improvement on edgy
<Viper550> I've got Dapper running in VMware on my new computer
<Viper550> Also, I see you are needing ideas for a new update notifier icon?
<nysosym> i think we sould make the tango update icon human like
<nysosym> http://tango.freedesktop.org/static/cvs/tango-icon-theme/scalable/apps/system-software-update.svg
<nysosym> because to have a desktop standard would be nice
<nysosym> tousends of different icons make users confuse
<nysosym> but thats only my mind ^
<kwwii> there is a difference between having a standard for software and making a unique distribution
<kwwii> that is what sooo many people don't get
<kwwii> why doesn't MS and Apple make things look and work the same?
<nysosym> kwwii, sure, but human has many similar things of tango, one more or less is ok ^
<kwwii> sure
<kwwii> but even better would be to humanize it
<kwwii> or at least tangerine-anize it
<nysosym> that's what i think, replace the blue tango ball, with the orange human one, make "the cable" human like etc. :D
<kwwii> exactly
<nysosym> i think this would be the best solution, for the update icon problem
<kwwii> yepp
<nysosym> hehe, "human icons" in google and the "best result" is the first one :D
<nysosym> ohh i love my mac ^^
<nysosym> i know, it's a matter of taste, but MS has so much money and the new vista icons looking very boring. And Apple with the "old style" is so much better i think :D
<kwwii> I think it is more about making artwork for the masses
<nysosym> that's the way why i like the oxygen icons they has a little bit from the osx icons :)
<nysosym> kwwii, i know it's only a very smart preiew when i ask my friends and all of them love the osx icons. But the most of them are windows users from the ground..
<kwwii> it also depends on who you talk to
<nysosym> i think apple has the much more better "mass solution"
<kwwii> talk to all different kinds of people, different ages, different countries, cultures
<nysosym> and a "must have" effect
<kwwii> oh, I love mac
<kwwii> I have three
<kwwii> ;-)
<nysosym> welcome to the club :D
<nysosym> << mac user since 5 years :)
<nysosym> but in any way is must use windows for my work *grml*
<nysosym> and my heart and the best community beats for linux :D
<nysosym> here u can have the feeling as a small user u can "change the world"
* kwwii uses mac since 18 years
<nysosym> ohh *go down to my knies*
<nysosym> :D
<kwwii> ;-)
<nysosym> *knees ^^
<nysosym> the german inside of me....
<kwwii> lol
<nysosym> kwwii, do u speak german as well as english?
<kwwii> nysosym: klar
<nysosym> wieso mach ich mich dann mit englisch rumm? ^^
<kwwii> lol, weil in diese Channel nur Englisch gesprochen wird :p
<nysosym> klar "learning by doing", aber manches kann ich noch besser in deutsch sagen
<kwwii> kann ich gut verstehen
<nysosym> sry @all for german!
<kwwii> ab und zu mal passt
<kwwii> aber nicht immer
<nysosym> ja, sind aber auch kaum welche hier die lauschen, nehme ich an ^^
<kwwii> sonst regt sich jemand auf
<nysosym> hast du jabber oder hnliches?
<kwwii> normalaweise mache ich nur irc
<nysosym> damit ich dich auch in deiner Freizeit belstigen kann ^^
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> was ist'en freizeit?
<kwwii> kenne ich nicht :p
<kwwii> bin immer am arbeiten
<nysosym> ok, was machst du denn beruflich?
<kwwii> ich arbeite doch fr Canonical
<kwwii> knslter ;-)
<nysosym> traumjob oder?
<kwwii> ja schon
<kwwii> ist aber viel mehr arbeit als mann denkt
<nysosym> hi BHSPitLappy :)
<nysosym> kwwii, yes?
<BHSPitMonkey> yo
<BHSPitLappy> yo
<kwwii> nysosym: yepp
<nysosym> kwwii, i don't think that this is an easy job, but i will do the same in my future
<nysosym> i love it to be creative, with UI etc. :D
<kwwii> nysosym: cool, good luck!
<nysosym> kwwii, thx!
<nysosym> what do u learn to do your actually job kwwii ?
<kwwii> nysosym: founded my own company a long time ago ;-)
<kwwii> worked for suse for 7 years
<kwwii> after that
<kwwii> it is more about experience and talent
<nysosym> i will have studies in "Medien Informatik"
<nysosym> is this a good way?
<nysosym> are would u say, i should open although my own company?
<nysosym> *or
<nysosym> i'm a little bit double-minded
<kwwii> well, it is not a bad start, but you have to really get into it and do whatever you can
<nysosym> a own company is very hard to realize without adds espacially in these time
<kwwii> it all comes down to contacts and good work
<nysosym> kwwii, sure, but i live in a small city (15000 Owners) here aren't so many companys to make them a logo or similar things.
<kwwii> nysosym: yeah, that is a problem with doing it yourself
<nysosym> and the graphic market is very crowded i think, without a good name "in the scene", is it very very very hard to earn money
<kwwii> yepp
<nysosym> but what do u think, i'm 19 years old, my love are graphics and other similar thing (new technologys ect.). I doesn't have much money, not richt and not poor, studies would be good i think, build new contacts and increase my skill. But there is so much time, that i need for these studies, i will earn money in the near time, with doing a art job...
<nysosym> what would u do when u will be 19 in these time, with these premises
<kwwii> well, studying is always good
<kwwii> you can still earn money on the side
<kwwii> if you somehow find a way to earn a lot of money without studying then perhaps that is good
<nysosym> sry for that question, but i like to ask a person with much experience in these sector, and find someone is very difficult. :)
<kwwii> but usually getting some kind of studies done is better
<kwwii> for instance, I studied civil engineering :-)
<nysosym> ohh okay :D
<nysosym> and in the middle of your studies you created your company?
<kwwii> nope, afterwards
<nysosym> anyway thx for your answers, it's alltime very nice to talk with u and i know my goal for the future :)
<kwwii> no problem
<nysosym> how old are u kwwii (can i ask that)? :)
<kwwii> 36
<nysosym> nice :)
<nysosym> sry that a bombard u with so many questions
<kwwii> no problem
<nysosym> i should make a new update icon for human, instead to ask so many questions :D
<nysosym> but i will do that next morning, here is it 11PM and i will wake up 5AM ^^
<nysosym> that's the reason that i will go to bed now.
<kwwii> cool
<kwwii> see you
<nysosym> thx for all kwwii have a nive day and hope to see u soon ;)
<nysosym> *nice
<nysosym> bye bye gn8 @all
<EmxBA> hah I need free ssh access with apache there...some space that'll be used for IRC bot that'll log one channel but I can't leave my PC always online so I can't have my own server...does anyone know where can I get some?
<troy_s> wtf?
<EmxBA> LOL, maybe not right channel, but do you know some free server that can give me web space and ssh acess?
<msikma> This is an artwork discussion channel
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-02-13
<Viper550> You need ideas for a new update-notifier icon?
<troy_s> No.
<troy_s> No one has ideas.
<Viper550> I do...
<troy_s> *sigh*
<darkstar> hi there
<PingunZ> hello
<darkstar> quite today, isn't it?
<darkstar> Just apoproached edgy, coming from openSuse.. Is there a way to have an OSX-like desktop, the easy way?
<darkmatter> yup
<darkmatter> welll... kinda
<darkmatter> theres several osx like themes
<darkmatter> theres also
<lizardking> darkmatter: look at gnomelook
<darkstar> I prefer using gnome, btw
<darkmatter> a macmenu for gtk
<lizardking> darkmatter: I think apple style is hard to copy
<darkstar> not a real clone of the ma style.. something more pleasant than the standard look
<darkmatter> lizardking, not really... ony real "hardpoints" are the tabs
<lizardking> darkmatter: yes
<lizardking> lizardking: also gnome panels
<darkmatter> but not that it matters... I'm not really a "mac guy"... but I con almost perfectly clone mac style (I've done it for clients)... its just not a "one click" operation
<darkmatter> *can
<darkstar> so should I take a look at gnome-look?
<darkmatter> sure
<darkstar> any suggestions? any known theme that works well according to your opinion?
<darkmatter> hmmmm... hard to say... my themes not done (thus not worthy)... and a lot of themes  that are "done" arent... hmmmmm
<darkstar> tell you what: I'll go taking a look. if anything pleases me i'll grab it.
<darkstar> Thanks for your help.
<darkstar> Have a good one.
<darkmatter> troy_s, another thing for your consideration to add to the list of exported elements, scrollbars
<troy_s> darkmatter: I was under the impression that we were going to try and expose everything.
<darkmatter> yup
<darkmatter> anyay.. been up all night.. nap time
<darkmatter> ;)
<troy_s> Yah
<troy_s> nicht
<troy_s> Builder of bikesheds -- kwwii you in?
<Viper550> You said you were going to have trouble with getting the Usplash artwork into GFXBOOT
<Viper550> anyone here?
<kwwii> I am here but I am in a meeting
<kwwii> so i am not really here
<Viper550> Okay then, I see you got my email about me noticing that gfxboot oddity on Ubuntu CE
<kwwii> yeah, thanks for mentioning that, i would not have noticed
<Viper550> I'm also considering whipping up a new Ubuntu login screen using the new version of the Gnome GDM theme (with the ok/cancel buttons) as the base
<kwwii> you mean a new gdm theme or a new login splash?
<Viper550> gdm, that's what I said
<msikma> hmm
<msikma> Doesn't the latest unstable version of Ubuntu have DejaVu Condensed as default font?
<kwwii> msikma: yes, it should
<msikma> Does anyone know for sure?
<msikma> If it is, then the default hinting must be set to "slight"
<msikma> The hinting seems to not work at all on the other settings.
<msikma> But it does work rather nicely on "slight".
<kwwii> msikma: that is a problem with gnome
<kwwii> msikma: I'll look into that
<msikma> It's kind of strange how it doesn't get hinted on "medium"
<Viper550> This new font is well, interesting
<kwwii> msikma: yeah, seems freaky
<Viper550> I actually kinda like it, looks more contemporary
<kwwii> Viper550: not sure how much we are going to change the GDM for feisty
<Viper550> I'm trying to make it as simliar to the old one as possible layout wise
<Viper550> And from what I saw on the Wiki, you are doing most of the work on Fiesty.
<kwwii> yeah, pretty much all of it
<kwwii> since I am getting paid to do it
<Viper550> O_O
<kwwii> of course, that does not mean that others cannot help, just that in the end I'll be responsible for it (responsible to report to sabdfl that is)
<Viper550> k then! Is there a preview app for GDM themes?
<kwwii> not that I know of
<Viper550> So far, I've replaced the background, the Options icon, and the "new default fonts"
<troy_s> kwwii
<troy_s> You in?
<Viper550> wanna see my XML so far?
<Viper550> p.s. troy_S: he's in a meeting
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-02-14
<kwwii> troy_s: hey man
<troy_s> sup kwwii?
<kwwii> had to fix a friends windows computer
<kwwii> ie turn it off, unplug it, turn it back on
<kwwii> thanks be to god that worked
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> anything new happening with you kwwii?
<kwwii> troy_s: not too much, been working on the usplash pretty much all day
<kwwii> that and lots of emails :-)
<kwwii> troy_s: you?
<troy_s> yeah there are a few of those.
<troy_s> not as much as I would have liked to.  i need to get some scrapbook shit together for this film project.
<troy_s> alas, my head is pounding.
<troy_s> have you been chatting with sab?
<kwwii> been ping-ponging each other with emails
<troy_s> super fun
<kwwii> yeah, really
<kwwii> no...really :p
<kwwii> actually, until now the colaboration has been very working very well
<troy_s> until now?
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> collaboration... sure.
<troy_s> well hopefully it will go ok for you...
<troy_s> i can't imagine otherwise unless you try to really hit some distinctive elements out.
<kwwii> well, with the time schedule for feisty doing something radically new is out of the question anyway
<kwwii> and doing radically new things is not probably going to be done by one person anyway, lest it go astray
<troy_s> kwwii Well yes.  The point being is that the 6 month cycle isn't exactly conducive to a longer term level of design anyways.
<troy_s> I wouldn't even say radical is a question -- just getting everything into a suitable top drawer sort of presentation would take longer than a 6month cycle.
<troy_s> Right now, the underlying issues are handicapping that element anyways.
<kwwii> right on both counts
<kwwii> and to think that I did a release every 3 months at suse
<kwwii> it's like being expected to fart artwork
<troy_s> kwwii well that would really cripple the bloody work.
<troy_s> kwwii I think that in order to really have a chance, we need to be developing the next while twiddling the now enough to keep sab happy.
<troy_s> That said, the 'next' would also need to be approved by him, which again, given that he has had completely free reign, seems to be
<troy_s> a problem to try and actually develop any sort of distinct identity.
<kwwii> troy_s: yepp, I agree with that
<Viper550> Is any of the Fiesty art so far on the wiki/in packages?
<kwwii> Viper550: nope, only in packages
<kwwii> erm, reread your question
<kwwii> no wiki stuff, only packages
<kwwii> and only the usplash and a wallpaper until onw
<kwwii> now
<nysosym> hi there :)
<kwwii> moin
<kwwii> w00t! the usplash is now final :-)
<nysosym> have u seen my new icon for update notifier kwwii ? :)
<nysosym> Yes? Can is see them? :)
<kwwii> nysosym: it is in the process of being uploaded
<kwwii> nysosym: hrm, I guess I missed that - really liked the one lapo made
<nysosym> ok, but i can't use feisty, madwifi doesn't work and i can't see the new version :-/
<nysosym> kwwii: sure i like lapos although very much, but i think these icons doesn't match with the human look
<kwwii> nysosym: yeah, they need a bit of gloss and so
<kwwii> but the metaphor itsel is very nice
<kwwii> did you post a version to the mailing list?
<kwwii> if so, I cannot find it
<nysosym> damn, anytime i send new mails with my new adress and these aren't in this list
<nysosym> mom
<nysosym> its out :)
<kwwii> nysosym: probably need to change the list subscription to point to the new address
<nysosym> do u have a new mail?
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> here is a few ideas
<nysosym> good :)
<kwwii> the white has very little contrast against the orange
<kwwii> and I think that orange is more along the lines of what we need than red
<kwwii> the gloss on the icon should probably be curved to match the gloss on other icons (like the folder, for instance)
<nysosym> well, i have used the orange from the human folders ^^
<nysosym> the gloss is although from the folders ^^
<kwwii> you would probably need to add a slight line around the white arrow
<kwwii> yeah, the gloss itself is ok, but it should probably have a curved lower edge
<nysosym> well, good points thx :)
<nysosym> i will do my best :)
<kwwii> no problem
<kwwii> sabdfl really likes the ones that lapo sent, btw...not sure how much time I would stick into making other versions :-)
<kwwii> not that I want to stop you, just thought you should know
* kwwii muss zum Steuerberater, bbl
<nysosym> no problem, i didn't have a problem with this, i can't use my icon for mayself for instance ^^
<kwwii> cool
<nysosym> can`t =can ^^
<kwwii> yeah, I figured that out ;-)
<nysosym> hehe ;)
<nysosym> kwwii: the gloss more to the bottom of this icon?
<kwwii> nysosym: not necessarily...just add a curve to it
<kwwii> gotta run...be back later
<nysosym> thx, have a nice day :)
<nysosym> hi andreasn
<andreasn> hi nysosym
<andreasn> how are things?
<nysosym> andreasn: well, all fine here :)
<nysosym> little bit stress, valentine day...
<nysosym> woman.... ^^
<nysosym> andreasn: what do u think about my update notifier icon?
<nysosym> http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=g4642vy9.png
<nysosym> re
<andreasn> looks a bit unsharp, but other than that it looks nice
<kwwii> hi andreasn
<kwwii> how's things?
<andreasn> I have a cold
<andreasn> so I more or less slept all day
<kwwii> ouch
<kwwii> sorry to hear that
<kwwii> get well soon :-)
<andreasn> but now I'm trying to track down a invoice to a customer that might have got lost in the post
<andreasn> thanks
<troy_s> wholly overcomplicated 24 pixel icons.
<troy_s> kwwii re the update lapo icon -- humanize it if sabdfl is going to go with it.  otherwise it is yet one more step down the road to frankenstein.
<nysosym> hi there
<nysosym> hi Seveas
<kwwii> howdy Seveas
<kwwii> Seveas: thinking about including a decent set of aspect ratios in the usplash
<kwwii> Seveas: any ideas on that front?
<kwwii> Seveas: oh, and it looks like we are going to be able to use 16 or 24bit graphics
<Seveas> kwwii, -ETIME, I planned on doing that for feisty but some hell in my private life prevented that
<Seveas> 16/24bit: not in the near future
<kwwii> Seveas: from what mjg59 and tfheen say it should be doable (we'll still have the 256 as backup)
<Seveas> kwwii, good to hear, they know infinitelymore than me about that
<kwwii> Seveas: it would certainly make it easier to make pics for it
<kwwii> Seveas: but in any case, I want to include a few aspect ratios and I thought maybe you have an idea which ones would be good
<kwwii> and which sizes I should make
<kwwii> Seveas: the new stuff is pure svg (and already works with 8bit)
<kwwii> so the pics are not a problem
<kwwii> Seveas: but I do not want to include too much as it only takes up space on the CDs
<nysosym> kwwii: hi, please make a 1680x1050 version of usplash! :)))
<nysosym> here is my favorite list 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024, 1280x800, 1680x1050, 1680x1200
<nysosym> that's the most used resolutions :)
<nysosym> there is all in 4:3, 4:5, 16:10, 16:9
<nysosym> gn8 @ all :)
<msikma> 16:9? That's very uncommonly used by monitors, isn't it?
<msikma> All wide screens I've ever used or seen were 16:10.
<kwwii> yeah, 16:10 is probably a better ratio
<PingunZ> mine is 16:10
* PingunZ feels hip
<troy_s> 16:9 is standard HD.
<msikma> troy_s: yes, for primarily televisions
<msikma> I have never seen a 16:9 computer monitor
<msikma> I guess you could support those that hook up Ubuntu on an external HD television but it seems that there's very limited space on the CD.
<troy_s> msikma: Not really an issue if SVG is included on the cd
<troy_s> seems to make the most logical sense.
<msikma> You'll still need to tell it to downscale properly and proportionally, and in that case you might as well use a large PNG
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-02-15
<troy_s> Not exactly.
<troy_s> A) the svg should be smaller
<troy_s> B) setting gnome's wallpaper to 'zoom' accomodates proper scaling (albeit not 100% perfect composition, but c'est la vie)
<kwwii> troy_s: this is about including different aspect ratios for the usplash
<troy_s> wasn't there an issue with aspects for usplash?
<troy_s> as in you can't always know that it will return from power saving with proper aspect?
<kwwii> nope that had to do with the color depth
<kwwii> but that issue is solved as well
<kwwii> looks like we'll be using 16 or 24bit soon
<troy_s> 16 is a waste of time
<troy_s> worse than 256
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> wrong
<troy_s> uh right
<kwwii> the bootsplash takes 16 of 24 from a jpeg
<kwwii> and I helped write it
<kwwii> believe me I know
<troy_s> 16bpp == 555
<kwwii> 565
<troy_s> yes.
<troy_s> so you are talking colour banding
<kwwii> and that is worse than only using 256 colors?
<troy_s> only time 16 bits comes in ahead is when you have a plethora of colours... even then, it is ugly.
<troy_s> 256 palettized.
<troy_s> greater range.
<kwwii> dude, my experience proves otherwise
<kwwii> but we can agree to disagree
<troy_s> on anything with gradients, 16bpp is simply awful.
<kwwii> not if you do it right
<troy_s> 32 colours to express a gradient is not exactly optimal.
<troy_s> even if you dither the piss out of it.
<kwwii> it is jpeg, so no dithering
<troy_s> wtf does jpeg have to do with dithering?
<kwwii> ahhh, you mean dithering the gradient in the app itself
<kwwii> anyway...I'll be happy to have it
<kwwii> just look at the bootsplash artwork that is available
<kwwii> and then look at the usplash artwork
<troy_s> that's an awful method to evaluate.  just look at the bulk of work out there in general.  ;)
<troy_s> usplash to bootsplash is like comparing borked to borken.
<kwwii> troy_s: the only real difference (other than the box and text rendering in the bootsplash) is the color depth
<kwwii> anyway
<kwwii> time for bed
<kwwii> moin
<nysosym> hi there
<nysosym> re
<kwwii> hey man
<darkmatter> yo
<kwwii> howdy darkmatter, nysosym and everyone else :-)
<nysosym> hi kwwii my friend :D
<nysosym> and hio darkmatter :))))
<nysosym> herd 4 comes out today?
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> well, today or tomorrow
<kwwii> but it is being made now
<darkmatter> and a good ol' top o' the mornin' to ya' too kwwii :)
<nysosym> nice, i hope heard 4 does work on my machine, the installer from the daily from yesterday crashs, at loading partition manager
<nysosym> but madwifi and my sound was working great :)
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> yeah, it didn't work too well on my machine either
<nysosym> kwwii, i have started to work on media keys in human look now :D
<kwwii> nysosym: cool :-)
<kwwii> I was supposed to be having a conf call with my boss
<kwwii> but it appears he is still sleeping :p
<nysosym> hehe :D
<kwwii> either that or he meant 11 at night
<nysosym> ok at this time i will although go to bed ^^
<kwwii> I guess everyone has seen this: http://www.isity.net/blog/
<kwwii> that is what we need to work up to
<nysosym> can i ask, why do u tried to call him? :)
<kwwii> because I don't want to pay for it :-)
<kwwii> and it is not an important call
<kwwii> more to give him the feeling that he knows what is going on I guess
<nysosym> wow, the fedora artwork is amazing! O.o
<nysosym> no reason to switch, but amazing :D
<darkmatter> nice.. is that the official artwork????
* darkmatter attacks fedoras server to scavenge up the files :D
<nysosym> it seams so
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> she has done it for the last 3 releases or so
<kwwii> amazing stuff
<kwwii> and it is based off of community themes
<kwwii> and flickr pics
<nysosym> yes, very consistent and professional :)
<nysosym> it seams that the ballon, is one of the new fedora metaphors
<nysosym> darkmatter, i think we shouldn't be envious, we should create something better ;)
<darkmatter> hehe
<kwwii> note however that it was not done by a group of people
<nysosym> i think we should add more african like stuff, i like brown, very warm and beautiful, but more typical african stuff would be although nice
<nysosym> kwwii, sure, but i love to speak in plural ^
<kwwii> nysosym: actually, I think we could do something like that as a group
<kwwii> since there are so many pieces
<kwwii> but we need a team that takes direction well
<kwwii> not 5 poeple with 10 different ideas
<kwwii> that is good at the start
<kwwii> but when we have one look down it takes everyone walking down the same path to create a unified look
<nysosym> yes, well formed specifications
<nysosym> i had a conversation with troy_s for a longer time, that we need more specifications, like apple and ms
<kwwii> well, there is also a matter of time
<nysosym> kwwii, sure, what we should do is increasing the specifications from version to version. The way that we go in the history, but with more defination, we shouldn't try to make in every realese a revolution in graphic style
<nysosym> for sure not for the end of life, i think every 2-3 years we should create something completely new
<nysosym> or more years ^^
<kwwii> yeah
<kwwii> not sure I would call them spefications, more like guidelines
<kwwii> specfications
<kwwii> ahhhh
<kwwii> specifications
<nysosym> kwwii, yes, thats the much better word ;)
<nysosym> a strong line to work on for 2-3 years with enough elbowroom for ideas
<kwwii> well, the first part is to get an art director
<kwwii> and that is in the works
<nysosym> i vote for u ;)
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> I would have to move to london for that
<nysosym> why that? *confused*
<kwwii> damn inkscape just died
<kwwii> well, there is several reasons
<kwwii> 1) to be in the office to work with the marketing people, etc
<nysosym> the headquarter of canoncial is in london?
<kwwii> 2) it is hard to do that kind of coordination from another country, you need to see the printed material, etc. when it is happening
<kwwii> yepp
<nysosym> ok all clear now :D
<nysosym> ok but who is in london?
<nysosym> or other, which person is in the inner circle for the art-director?
<nysosym> and why does inkscape die?
<kwwii> no idea who they are looking at
<kwwii> I know they want to hire one, that is all
<kwwii> and that will be my boss
<kwwii> inkscape dies because it is poorly written software
<kwwii> :p
<nysosym> hmmm, a fresh air in the ubuntu-art work?
<nysosym> kwwii, yes, that's true it's slow, but free ^^
<nysosym> xara is very nice and fast and i love the way for transitions :D
<nysosym> but svg support is miserable
<darkmatter> xara's ok...
<darkmatter> inkscapes better :P
<nysosym> darkmatter, not in all ways ;)
<darkmatter> :P
<nysosym> ohh i will have a lunch now :)
<nysosym> cya
<darkmatter> bye
<kwwii> see you
* kwwii has a call
<kwwii> be back later
<nysosym> hav fun ;)
<nysosym> re
<nysosym> hi klepas
<klepas> hey, sup?
<nysosym> sup?
<klepas> what's up :)
<nysosym> ahh ok, fedora has a good artwork ^^
<nysosym> http://www.isity.net/blog/
<nysosym> damn, inkscape should have a autosave option ^^
<kwwii> nysosym: well, when it crashes it saves a file
<kwwii> so that is at least something
<nysosym> kwwii, yes, but not in any time, "saving failed" ^^
<kwwii> ouch
<nysosym> no problem, i have again the same status :)
<klepas> nysosym: yea, fedora has some nice work in it :)
<klepas> nysosym: is that your blog?
<nysosym> klepas,no, i love ubuntu :D
<klepas> *nod*
* klepas needs to get in touch with that dude
<kwwii> klepas: it is a woman :-)
<kwwii> erm
<nysosym> woman? O.o
<kwwii> I will shut up, not sure what I am talking about
<kwwii> I meant the person doing the RH stuff
<nysosym> no :D
<nysosym> please don't shut up ^^
<kwwii> lol
<klepas> oh, i jumped to conclusions
<klepas> kwwii: thanks
<kwwii> klepas: np
<kwwii> she has a masters degree in design from harvard
<klepas> far out
<klepas> i definitely need to say hi :)
<kwwii> yeah, made me feel small pretty quickly
<kwwii> the neatest part about that artwork is that it is based on community themes and flickr pics
<klepas> yea
<klepas> *cough* unlike ubuntu *cough*
<nysosym> klepas hmm?
<nysosym> ubuntu has many work from the community inside :D
<klepas> nothing that is default
<nysosym> klepas, my emblems for instance ^^
<kwwii> klepas: that will change in the future
<klepas> that's the plan
<nysosym> kwwii, play button, what do u think?
<nysosym> http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zeichnung2hz3.png
<kwwii> nysosym: nice, probably needs a bit more saturation
<nysosym> no problem :D
* klepas exports a 5867x3373 PNG :)
<kwwii> klepas: have you noticed how slow inkscape is at rendering stuff with blur?
<kwwii> it took me 3.5 hours to render the current wallpaper
<nysosym> O.o
<nysosym> is slow, but so slow? ^^
<nysosym> *its
<klepas> kwwii: yep
<klepas> considering the work i am rendering has over 30 large blurs... this one will take a fair while
<klepas> this work has iirc 2000+ mouse-created objects
<nysosym> kwwii, better? http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zeichnung222ma3.png
<nysosym> hmm i need a graphic tablet...
<nysosym> another stupid bug in inkscape
<nysosym> http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bugfp9.png
<nysosym> the dotted line should be on the last end of the triangle
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> yeah
<nysosym> damn, icon creation eats so much time :D
<nysosym> kwwii, has u seen my resolutions for usplash yesterday?
<kwwii> nysosym: nope
<kwwii> ahhh
<kwwii> I mean yes
<kwwii> but that is too many
<nysosym> hmm can usplash scaling down?
<kwwii> I brought that up as an issue at the meeting tonight
<kwwii> nope, it only scales up
<nysosym> damn
<nysosym> ^^
<kwwii> I'll let the developers figure it out
<kwwii> I guess at least including a 1280x800 would be a good start
<nysosym> yes for widescreen users
<nysosym> i think usplash would be better as xml base, with a center option. :D
<nysosym> in that way u could create a little ubuntu image which looks good in every resolution ^^
<nysosym> and this would reduce space :)
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> well, this is not really our decision
<kwwii> but it looks like it will support 16bit graphics
<kwwii> which is great
<kwwii> as we can then do full screen themes
<nysosym> cool, maybe in the next release? :D
<nysosym> ok kwwii i will go to work now, hope to see u in the next time :)
<nysosym> have a nice day ;)
<troy_s> greets all.
<troy_s> wow... imagine that... a clearly communicated vision in open source software
<troy_s> redhat gets it right
<troy_s> Look a motif!
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o troy_s]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : Welcome to #ubuntu-artwork.  Fedora gets it right -- http://www.isity.net/blog/
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
<kwwii> of course that vision was done by one person, not a team
<troy_s> kwwii It is possible to do that sort of work within a team.
<troy_s> kwwii I have seen it.
<troy_s> kwwii I think it is simply the fact that she knows all the beats.  She is well versed in the creative process.
<troy_s> that is quite simply the first piece of free software work that I have seen that properly fleshes out creative ideas.
<troy_s> the communication factor is functionally clear, the integrated use of a motif, the palette issues, etc.
<troy_s> And besides, if your argument was that a single person achieves this level of quality, look to all the other single person endeavours out there.  It certainly can work as a single person (look at the bulk of the rubbish on *look), but it too can work in a team based scenario (Apple comes to mind) for larger projects.
<troy_s> kwwii Did you get the wallpaper rendered bro?
<kwwii> troy_s: the fact thaqt her stuff is based on community themes and flickr artwork amazed me
<troy_s> Well...
<kwwii> actually, my point was that it is harder to do it in a team
<troy_s> she simply looked outside at the 'proposals'
<kwwii> more people = more problems
<troy_s> kwwii It is absoultely tough.
<troy_s> but it also is simply a matter of numbers
<troy_s> like a game of chess
<kwwii> man this connection is killing me, gonna restart my client
<kwwii> brb
<troy_s> one player plays against two solid players, the one player will probably lose.
<troy_s> ok chat in a sec
<troy_s> Good now?
<kwwii> yeah
<kwwii> better
<kwwii> my server is slow for some reason
<kwwii> and typing was hell
<troy_s> I think as grown up folks interested in art and design etc
<troy_s> It is key to see the essence of what someone is trying to communicate through a mock
<troy_s> which she clearly did
<troy_s> if you look at the source of the inspiration, it is very clunky
<troy_s> and probably wouldn't get a second look by most folks.  but she simply saw through the actual execution to the root of the idea.
<troy_s> which i suppose is a skill unto itself.
<troy_s> I know I try to work on that sort of approach every day -- try to see what the creator of a piece is seeing in the work that 'works' for them.
<kwwii> yeah, she has a masters degree in design from harvard :p
<troy_s> It is a terrific body of work, well fleshed out.
<troy_s> Yeah I should get my MA
<troy_s> I have been putting it off for too long...
<troy_s> I really want to spend a year or so working on form.
<kwwii> although it looks awesome I must say that the wallpaper is a bit too complicated for a default
<troy_s> I think it is a little on the contrasty
<troy_s> I have been experimenting with that sort of thing, and I think 'business' is nice in a wallpaper if you can meet the
<troy_s> contrast requirements
<troy_s> (eg test icons against areas etc.)
<kwwii> yeah
<troy_s> that said
<troy_s> audience rules all
<troy_s> and her body of work is quite clearly aimed at a particular audience
<troy_s> who cares nothing about contrast issues.
<kwwii> defnitely
<troy_s> And I am partial to that thinking.
<troy_s> ubuntu still needs to define a clear target audience
<troy_s> and then a clear set of objectives from top down.
<kwwii> note that the artwork is for fedora, not RH itself
<troy_s> exactly ;)
<troy_s> fedora being the 'desktop' end now.
<troy_s> i would expect that if she were to design for RH
<troy_s> she would probably attempt to address the business sector with the design.
<kwwii> yepp
<troy_s> (see on a bank terminal)
<kwwii> well in about 4 weeks I'll be done with feisty
<troy_s> Ubuntu's strength however, is in the groundswell of 'users' who are coming from winblows / apple
<kwwii> and then I will start right away on planning the next stuff
<troy_s> kwwii maybe think about longer term goals?
<kwwii> yepp, exactly
<troy_s> kwwii otherwise it is just another novell for you -- pinch off small loafs.
<kwwii> I'll probably try to look 3 releases out
<kwwii> and set goals for each one
<kwwii> it will take a while just to get the whole process running
<troy_s> Again, if we could at some point get sabdfl to do two things
<troy_s> well i believe that was clear in edgy
<kwwii> heck, it will take a while just to get the powers that be used to working on things this way
<troy_s> the journey is the goal.
<troy_s> the problem is that Ubuntu will _never_ achieve Fedora's level of discipline
<kwwii> my excuse is "sorry, I am still training my boss"
<troy_s> It would take two things primarily:
<troy_s>  1) sabdfl stand down on design.
<troy_s>  2) Power given to an art director.
<troy_s> And in order to avoid bikesheds
<troy_s> 2.1) Art director have formal training and experience.
<troy_s> 2.2) Be innovative -- the realm of 'free design' is just starting.
<troy_s> Bikesheds are always a nightmare.
<troy_s> that said,
<kwwii> the hard thing is that most art directors that you find are not used to working in an open source setting
<troy_s> having a bloody target audience helps to alleviate that strain.
<kwwii> yeah, true
<troy_s> kwwii:  Not exactly.  Every art director I know
<troy_s> works on a team
<troy_s> a very _big_ team.
<troy_s> that crosses feature film art directors and established video game art directors.
<kwwii> oh sure, but there are definite levels of responsiblity and everyone knows where the top of the ladder is
<troy_s> they all have extremely good team skills.
<troy_s> Yes.  That said,
<troy_s> I believe there is room for that paradigm to be shifted
<troy_s> To have a 'consensus' built design structure.
<kwwii> I would not say that edgy was done as a team...rather it was done as many one-man teams
<troy_s> kwwii: Edgy was designed
<troy_s> to have sabdfl step in at many points
<troy_s> which he DID not.
<troy_s> those are client checkpoints
<troy_s> to steer.
<troy_s> without that, you are left floating.
<kwwii> true
<troy_s> That said, knowing what I know now, it is probably wise if sabdfl simply steps away from the table.
<troy_s> He will never get an art director with education and training to fill the role he wants.
<troy_s> And I would bet my house on that.
<troy_s> (with his current mentality)
<troy_s> If you want a very practical approach -- head into a tattoo parlour and ask the tattoo artist to colour in the linework built by someone else.
<troy_s> ;)
<kwwii> hehe, that works great in prison!
<troy_s> exactly
<troy_s> and that is exactly what we have right now in design
<troy_s> prison design
<troy_s> FTW crudely scrawled across our knuckles of *buntu desktop boxes.
<troy_s> Again, even if you look at the smallest of small details
<troy_s> despite the background itself, we at least ended up with a GDM/Lsplash/Wall that has the same palette
<troy_s> Which was a MASSIVE bit of fighting even to get the broken implementation we have now.
<kwwii> lol
<troy_s> I think sabdfl is really in a prime spot to really push FOSS -- imagine an Ubuntu desktop box
<troy_s> what would it look like etc...
<troy_s> sabdfl has the resources to make that a very real proposition
<kwwii> well, the first step is to get someone he trusts in the right position
<kwwii> or things will never change
<troy_s> and i firmly believe that having that sort of 'vision' is required to elevate ubuntu.  i am impressed that fedora has quit hiring the 'usual suspects' in foss 'art'
<troy_s> kwwii Unfortunately, the person he trusts might not be coupled with the ability structure, so I am not certain.
<troy_s> (not pointing at you, pointing at 'the person')
<kwwii> yeah, finding the right person is hard too
<troy_s> For example
<kwwii> but given a bit of power and a bit of time to do things right would be a big step in the right direction
<troy_s> as i was saying before, i had the art director from 'the final cut' lined up
<troy_s> but it simply wasn't an option to involve him
<troy_s> (he did some amazing work on Robin Williams wooden laptop/edit suite)
<troy_s> and further, there is no way in hell that i would put him in a room with sabdfl as i know he would just exhale a massive sigh at the end.
<troy_s> Hell, I wouldn't involve students at a design school.
<kwwii> that is what I meant when I said that most art directors won't fit well in a FOSS company environment
<kwwii> it is not just ubuntu that works like this
<kwwii> many companies do
<troy_s> The 'foss' company is a new thing
<kwwii> and it is so sad
<troy_s> and it must learn
<troy_s> just as fedora very clearly has
<kwwii> they need a boss who is not a developer
<kwwii> or can think around being one
<troy_s> and there are _many_ people like that
<troy_s> video games have been around for ages
<troy_s> to name but one small niche
<troy_s> The problem is that the FOSS community is cliquy
<kwwii> well, the difference here is that you are mainly stuck with the technology that already exists, you cannot push the limit on that much
<troy_s> and they turn their noses up at the practical implications of having true educated and specialized folks in partner areas.
<kwwii> if you go too far away from upstream you are killing yourself
<troy_s> I don't think it is the technology.
<kwwii> that is defnitely true
<troy_s> But that is certainly a part of it.
<kwwii> it is like they feel their toes getting stepped on
<troy_s> For example, the panel implementation in GNOME is simply awful.
<troy_s> As developers, they have a good solid generation of learning behind them.
<kwwii> well, if you create too much new technology it is impossible to maintain it
<troy_s> As creative types -- designers etc -- it is starting _now_.
<kwwii> you need upstream to support a lot of this tsuff
<kwwii> stuff
<troy_s> kwwii I don't know if it is about too much or trying to support a 'bigger' picture.
<kwwii> so like the face browser, it will not happen very quickly
<troy_s> The foss community of developers has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are very skilled at developing architecture.
<troy_s> face browser blah.
<kwwii> but they have to buy into it, believe in it
<troy_s> ;)
<kwwii> or they will never do it
<troy_s> Yes... or
<troy_s> as with Ubuntu / Red Had
<troy_s> have the person paying the bills buy into it.
<troy_s> to get the codebase in place.
<troy_s> Right now though, regarding Ubuntu design, it has nothing to do with technology
<kwwii> yeah, not yet
<kwwii> we are not that far
<troy_s> It is purely about getting an audience locked
<troy_s> Realizing that the GNOME / KDE myth of 'users' is a very varied area
<troy_s> We need a good demographic to target
<troy_s> and a research based approach to design
<kwwii> we have been working on trying to get that in place in kde for a while
<troy_s> that touches on every element from icon size in the panels (what joe average user wants 22 pixel icons?)
<kwwii> and what we have found is that the developers themselves hinder that process
<troy_s> well and it sounds 'exclusiory'
<troy_s> which is ALREADY is, I might add, just not in an outspoken way.
<kwwii> many FOSS projects are "by developers, for developers" and they want to keep it that way
<troy_s> Then they have lost sight of Richard Stallman's vision.
<kwwii> I can point you to several cases where developers have quit because they feel like the true vision is being lost
<kwwii> yepp
<troy_s> Sure.
<troy_s> In the end, it is completely irrelevant.
<troy_s> Many people will have their noses bent out of shape.
<kwwii> but without deveopers you never get anywhere
<troy_s> Well FOSS has proven that you can now pay developers
<troy_s> There are many developers who are willing to work in FOSS who have yet to discover it.
<kwwii> true
<troy_s> That said, what are your practical steps for the next bit?
<troy_s> (and i think the furor that was caused at the end of Edgy was largely because there were community people following more closely than sabdfl -- and saw the potentials)
<troy_s> kwwii Oh yeah
<troy_s> is that wallpaper rendered?
<troy_s> kwwii: ?
<kwwii> yeah, did it again today
<troy_s> You have a thumber?
<EmxBA> this http://www.isity.net/blog/ looks nice ;)
<kwwii> not yet, I'll make one in a bit
<kwwii> gotta cook dinner first :-)
<kwwii> my son is yelling "I'm hungry"
<troy_s> Bah
<troy_s> WORK FIRST FAMILY SECOND
<troy_s> lol
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> tell that to my wife
<troy_s> go feed your young mouth
<troy_s> kwwii: I live it... I know ;)
<troy_s> EmxBA: Yes, but it is far too communicative for sabdfl.  NHH -- never happen here.  :)
<EmxBA> :)
<troy_s> I speak that with the utmost seriousness.
<troy_s> Remember, sabdfl is the guy who wore cornbraids not that long ago.
<troy_s> His aesthetic is ... questionable.
<troy_s> greetings brottman
<nysosym> hi there :)
<nysosym> hi brottman :)
<nysosym> kwwii: usplash is final now? :)
<nysosym> hi kwwii_ :D
<nysosym> timeout?
<kwwii_> moved from wired to wireless
<kwwii> that's better
<nysosym> yes :)
<nysosym> anyway, usplash is final?
<kwwii> pretty much, yew
<kwwii> yes
<kwwii> meeting...bbl
<nysosym> which resolution do u have integrated? :)
<newz2000> whoa, that link in the topic is amazing
<newz2000> hey, in Edgy, I'm trying to find the icon used for System -> Help -> Commercial Support, anyone know where that is?
<nysosym> newz2000: usr/share/icons/gnome/24x24/generic/stock_send-fax
<nysosym> .png
<newz2000> nysosym: thanks!
<nysosym> no problem ;)
<newz2000> oh man, that's teh biggest one
<newz2000> (hoping to use a 48x48 on the website)
<newz2000> oh well, there are others
<nysosym> well, i will go to bed now :)
<nysosym> have a nice day @all, see u soon! :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-02-16
<nysosym> hi there :)
<BHSPitMonkey> yo
<nysosym> re
<nysosym> hi kwwii :)
<nysosym> and hi darkmatter :)
<nysosym> und PingunZ ^^
<PingunZ> hey
<nysosym> i can't find the icon for the upper left corner, to change these in /usr/share/icons
<nysosym> http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bildschirmfototo3.png
<darkmatter> hi nysosym
<nysosym> any ideas?
<darkmatter> I'm busy hacking atm ;)
<darkmatter> new slab... gnome-main-menu version 2
<nysosym> no problem darkmatter ;)
<nysosym> wow, what du u change?
<nysosym> *do
<nysosym> can i be a beta tester? ^^
<darkmatter> nysosym, not changing anything really... just making the new version from novell ubuntu friendly
<darkmatter> nysosym, http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotze0.png <--- thats fresh from svn... first compile to see what needs fixing
<nysosym> darkmatter: ahh ok nice and thx :)
<darkmatter> now time to crack open gedit
<nysosym> ahh ok, i know it's a matter of taste, but for me these menu is tooo big ^^
<darkmatter> nysosym, "big" is a tradeoff of actual usable design... the slabs not perfect... but you certainly wont get anything more usable in a container any smaller ;)
<nysosym> ok :D
<nysosym> http://soapbox.msn.com/video.aspx?vid=f9061379-003b-4fc4-b542-0c18bc0e84e2
<nysosym> wow....
<kwwii> w00t!
<kwwii> I got svgs working in GDM to round the boxes
<kwwii> nifty doodle
<PingunZ> kwwii, show mee
<kwwii> PingunZ: gotta figure out how to take a screenshot first :p
<kwwii> PingunZ: still working on it, but I could post the files I changed and added if you want to test it
<kwwii> I need to make sure that it works at all resolutions
<elkbuntu> kwwii, for screenshot, vmware?
<nysosym> kwwii: jippi feisty work fine here, now :D
<nysosym> But, Network-Manager need new "human-like" icons
<darkmatter> ewww... "human-like"???
<kwwii> elkbuntu: for some reason I cannot install ubuntu in vmware
<kwwii> nysosym: yeah
<elkbuntu> this.. is not a good thing :-/
<nysosym> darkmatter: why not?
<elkbuntu> mind you, vmware hates me too
<kwwii> well, my cdrom is in a docking station and for some reason after it boots it does not find the drive
<darkmatter> stick to the tango guidlelines... its the standard now
<kwwii> elkbuntu: I am sure there is a way around it
<kwwii> but I am too lazy to figure it out
<darkmatter> and jimmac did up a sweet set of tango nm applet goodies
<nysosym> darkmatter: but tango isn't the standard for ubuntu ;)
<elkbuntu> kwwii, a recompile probably
<elkbuntu> which of course isnt likely ;)
<kwwii> ;-)
<darkmatter> nysosym, its the standard for gnome and everything else ubuntu is using... which is why ubuntu currently looks like crap... they should either use tangerine or redesign human to follow the guidlines
<kwwii> boah, ever looked at the xml that inkscape writes?
<kwwii> total shit
<kwwii> the app says width=2px
<kwwii> and the svg says width="1.95843736"
<nysosym> *check*
<kwwii> sory for my potty mouth
<nysosym> kwwii: no problem :D
<elkbuntu> kwwii, forgiven. you do restrain yourself reasonably well ;)
<nysosym> thats the true :D
<kwwii> bad, bad inkscape
<nysosym> kwwii: thats the reason why, some icons looks a little bit blurry
<kwwii> I mean, how hard can that be?
<kwwii> even AI doesn't do that
<kwwii> is the wiki dead?
<nysosym> other question, where i can find the icon in the upper left corner to change?
<nysosym> http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bildschirmfotoxb7.png
<elkbuntu> kwwii, is a weekend approaching?
<elkbuntu> wiki downtime used to be a v.regular weekend occurrance
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> nysosym: that is a tango icon
<elkbuntu> anything from thursday to monday was fair game
<nysosym> kwwii: sure, but this is there when i have activated the human symbols...
<kwwii> nysosym: human defaults back to tangerine and then tango
<kwwii> it might also be simply copied into Human
<nysosym> thx, i will have a look on it kwwii :)
<elkbuntu> <Spo8> hmm... it would seem the entire help.ubuntu.com is down.
<elkbuntu> seems it's not just the wiki
<andreasn> nysosym: the name is system-software-update in apps
<elkbuntu> help. seems revived, wiki still sleeps
<kwwii> wow, even launchpad is dead
<kwwii> who tripped over the cord?
<elkbuntu> * mvo_ wonders if something is wrong with bazaar.lp.net
<elkbuntu> <Hobbsee> mvo_: see #launchpad
<elkbuntu> <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: DB vacuuming, another 5 or 10 minutes.
<elkbuntu> from -devel, so
<nysosym> thx andreasn :)
<nysosym> all works fine now :)
<kwwii> yeah, you just gotta know the right person :-)
<nysosym> yes, in every situations of life :D
<PingunZ> kwwii, I was out .. you can make screenies with gdmthemetester
<PingunZ> lemme get you the right command
<PingunZ> kwwii, gdmthemetester xdmcp YourGDM
<PingunZ> and feel free to send me the files ;)
<kwwii> PingunZ: no xnest installed here
<kwwii> I'll send you files, but know that it is not done yet
<kwwii> so no commenting on the artwork :-)
<PingunZ> ok
<PingunZ> I'll do a screenie ;)
<kwwii> PingunZ: http://sinecera.de/human-feisty-rounded.tar.gz
<kwwii> the logo looks like crap
<kwwii> but the boxes are rounded ;-)
<kwwii> we need to test it to see that it works at different resolutions
<nysosym> cya
<nysosym> go to work now
<nysosym> have a nice day
<PingunZ> kwwii, uploading screenie
<PingunZ> kwwii, http://pingunz.googlepages.com/humangdm.jpg
<PingunZ> ^^
<kwwii> PingunZ: cool, thanks
<kwwii> it works :-)
<kwwii> but the logo looks crappy
<kwwii> how do you like the entry box?
<PingunZ> well .. jpeg compression
<PingunZ> looks great
<PingunZ> here
<kwwii> probably need to tweak the colors a bit
<kwwii> but I tried to make it look the same as on the desktop
<PingunZ> kwwii, uploading in .png for better quality
<kwwii> PingunZ: great, thnx
<PingunZ> http://pingunz.googlepages.com/human.png
<kwwii> now I'll work on the logo a bit
<PingunZ> wasn't the gdm going to be changed
<PingunZ> I mean .. that ' smooth ' gdm thingie
<kwwii> PingunZ: you mean the face browser or such?
<PingunZ> yes .. and it was animated etv
<PingunZ> *etc
<kwwii> I was hoping so, but I have not heard anything about it in a while
<kwwii> I guess that if we do not turn compiz in by default it is impossible
<PingunZ> gdm has nothing to do with compiz
<kwwii> well, how can you do such 3D stuff without AIXGL or such
<kwwii> not compiz, I know
<kwwii> wrong choice of words
<PingunZ> hmm
<PingunZ> if they decide to install video drivers correctly there will be no problem with that gdm
<kwwii> the video driver installation has been pushed back to feisty+1
<PingunZ> oh
<PingunZ> what a shame
<kwwii> well, we got a lot of flak about that
<PingunZ> what's flak ?
<darkmatter> heh.. technically you wouldnt need accelerated gfx to do an animated gdm... you just cant get "3D" without it
<darkmatter> PingunZ, getting bitched at
<darkmatter> about
<darkmatter> etc
<PingunZ> ok
<PingunZ> so rather negative comments ? :D
<darkmatter> yup
<PingunZ> I get that
<PingunZ> ty darkmatter
<PingunZ> btw, how's the menu going ?
<darkmatter> kwwii, you should fix them all and clone vista's login for spite ;)
<elkbuntu> darkmatter, i believe kwwii rather likes his job
<PingunZ> :)
<darkmatter> PingunZ, soso... right now I'm not bothering with the schemas, I'm trying to figure out why the places arent showing.. lots of code to dig through
<darkmatter> elkbuntu, :P
<PingunZ> darkmatter, where can I get it ? :)
<PingunZ> a .deb prefferably, I don't really feel like compiling it from source
<kwwii> darkmatter: lol
<darkmatter> PingunZ, gnome cvs just co gnome-main-menu/branches
<darkmatter> no .debs
<PingunZ> doh
<darkmatter> its in really active dev
<PingunZ> oh
<kwwii> PingunZ: want to try another logo on that gdm?
<PingunZ> yeah, fine
<darkmatter> I'm going to check for updates after my nappy... and finish hacking
<PingunZ> darkmatter, I'll wait till I'm back from my snowboard vacation then ;)
<darkmatter> lol
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/ubuntu.png
<elkbuntu> darkmatter, you realise i just read that as 'after my diaper'
<kwwii> lol, that is for a different kind of dark matter
<darkmatter> PingunZ, the real deal is digging through all the code n backporting to 2.16... meh... I should just install fiesty
<PingunZ> I will, when i'm back :)
<darkmatter> elkbuntu, sheesh... I'm not that old,,, its like... 2 more years before I need attends
<elkbuntu> kwwii, rofl
<darkmatter> bbiab.. nature calls... and I answer
<kwwii> PingunZ: think you could make another screenshot of that?
<PingunZ> you want me to replace the logo with that logo and then make a screenie ?
<kwwii> PingunZ: yes please :-)
<PingunZ> ok
<PingunZ> hold on
<PingunZ> kwwii, http://pingunz.googlepages.com/ubuntu.png
<kwwii> PingunZ: excellent, thanks
<kwwii> ;-)
<PingunZ> np
<elkbuntu> aww.. decided against gloss?
<kwwii> elkbuntu: that is the same logo as in the usplash
<kwwii> might have to add some more because it is on a light bg
<elkbuntu> yeah, it's a wee bit blurry
<kwwii> ok, I am out for a while - bll
<kwwii> bbl
<kwwii> PingunZ: thanks again for the screenshot - I sent it to sabdfl to get his opinion on the rounded boxes
<PingunZ> salute him from me, will ya ? :)
<kwwii> lol, yeah
<troy_s> greets
<troy_s> that new logo in GDM is too heavy.
* troy_s bikesheds a bit.
<troy_s> Edgy one still seems superior in elegance.
<troy_s> and kwwii -- you should post your 1.9xxxx pixel size issue in #inkscape
<troy_s> see if there is a reasoning for it or whatever.
<vdepizzol> will ubuntu.com website use a new layout after feisty release?
<EmxBA> like which one, vdepizzol ?
<vdepizzol> EmxBA: this one? http://www.ingral.com.br/~vdepizzol/ubuntu/index.htm
<vdepizzol> (not ready yet)
<EmxBA> that's pretty nice :)
<andreasn> wow, nice navigation!
<vdepizzol> the header menu should look like this old mockup: http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/1219/ubuntuhomejn0.png
<EmxBA> Feisty artwork will be designed by kwwii -- of Kubuntu Edgy and KDE Oxygen Icon fame. He will be working closely with sabdfl in the design. Do not expect community involvement in defining this portion. kwwii is only going to do artwork, no job for others or...I don't get it :(
<vdepizzol> :|
<nysosym> hi there :)
<troy_s> greets nysosym
<troy_s> nysosym: Missed you a couple of times that you were here.
<nysosym> hi troy_s :)
<nysosym> sure, i had to do some work
<troy_s> Ditto.
<troy_s> How are things?
<nysosym> very fine, by you?
<troy_s> Fine thanks.
<nysosym> no problem, everytime again :)
<nysosym> what do u do in these times? :)
<nysosym> yesterday we have a conversation about the new fedora artwork and that these balloon will be a new metaphor for Fedora. My meaning was, that we need more african style in ubuntu, maybe a african elefant etc. . What do u think about troy_s?
<troy_s> nysosym: sorry
<troy_s> i was afk
<troy_s> back now if you wish to discuss.
<troy_s> nysosym: I believe that Fedora is symptomatic of someone with formal training in the fine arts discipline.
<troy_s> It is nothing more than a manifestation of a schooled approach -- albeit without the implied discussion regarding audience.
<nysosym> troy_s: no problem ;)
<troy_s> My personal thoughts regarding 'overarching' Ubuntu design is that it should 100% avoid the plastic looks of vista / osx
<troy_s> and turn 100% towards organics.
<troy_s> wood, stone, etc.
<troy_s> that said, it will never happen.
<troy_s> motifs have been around since the dark ages, and Fedora simply implements them.  Again, anyone with 1% of schooled knowledge knows that a motif is one element of your design implementation.
<troy_s> Motifs help to bridge continuity, establish your communication (what you are 'saying' between the lines of the design), etc.
<troy_s> There are also musical / sound motifs, but that is about sixteen generations past where the development of ubuntu is.  For more information on audio motifs, studying hitchcock doesn't hurt -- as his films used them extensively.
<nysosym> yes, the plastic look, is a moldy, wood and stones are very good ideas with a future, bu a well formed wood/stone texture is very difficult to render and i think a lot of people wan't a window with a wood texture like the interior in her car
<troy_s> nysosym: Unfortunately it appears that Ubuntu will continue to chase the silly obsolete and archaic plasticky gloss of OSX/Vista and use rather cheeseball imagery for their packaging.
<troy_s> nysosym: Yes, organics have been tried (and often reoccur) in interior vehicle design.
<troy_s> That said, they have yet to be embraced regarding technology.
<troy_s> I believe it could work wonderfully as it tends to communicate a more 'human' / 'real' / 'traditional value' sense -- as opposed to plastic gloss that communicates 'gadgetry'
<troy_s> Further, if you examine extremely high end appliances, the current trend is to integrate organics.
<nysosym> fully agree with u
<troy_s> It all makes perfect sense, but it will never happen.
<troy_s> A) We lack educated art folks.
<troy_s> B) We lack a leader who values the design aspects of the product.
<troy_s> C) We lack a target audience.
<troy_s> etc. etc.
<nysosym> troy_s: but there are other problems in a window with a wood/stone design, fonts are diffivult to read, small buttons go under in a flood of transitions etc.
<troy_s> We do have many talented folks interested, but their abilities will always be only as good as the default design direction permits them to be.
<troy_s> nysosym: All negotiable.
<nysosym> kwwii: says that a art leader will be adjusted in the next time :)
<troy_s> Those are certainly elements that need to be addressed, but to imply that they are insurmountable issues is simply not the case.
<troy_s> nysosym: I have zero expectations for Ubuntu design.
<troy_s> Which is probably a healthy expectation at this point.
<nysosym> hi andreasn
<andreasn> hey nysosym
<troy_s> Fedora's work has set a new benchmark for all FS design in my opinion.
<nysosym> troy_s: sure, another point in the conversation with kwwii was a design specification for ubuntu design. Ma idea was a guidline for 2-3 years, in these time the design of ubuntu will improved in every release, but with a well formed goal.
<troy_s> nysosym: I don't know if it needs to take that long at all.
<troy_s> nysosym: Once you have an audience, a chosen design communication direction, etc., the bits fall into place rapidly.
<troy_s> for example, if you chose something like 'industrial', choosing a palette is relatively easy -- which also limits a plethora of other design issues.
<nysosym> troy_s: yes, but other way are insurmountable with a release circle of 6 month, we can't made a design revolution in every release of ubuntu
<troy_s> agree
<troy_s> but we could realistically be far more flexible
<troy_s> either target the LTS releases for entire new looks
<troy_s> etc.
<nysosym> troy_s: the design of OSX for example is uptodate since 5 Years and the design was improved in every osx release
<troy_s> nysosym: Yeah but it is starting to look pretty dated.
<troy_s> nysosym: Which again is why I stress that Ubuntu could easily grab the lead in design if it simply had a more innovative attitude.
<troy_s> plastics and gloss are bloody _done_
<nysosym> troy_s: yes, but what i would say, a design guid with a lifetime with 2-3 years aren't tooo long
<nysosym> *guide
<troy_s> nysosym: LTS releases are 1.5 years.
<troy_s> With a fully firing team, I believe those targets would be very attainable.
<nysosym> troy_s: sure, but the question is, "what is the future"
<nysosym> we hav matt and gloss, semi matt in a different way, with very smooth transitions
<troy_s> nysosym: It doesn't take much to at least make a POKE at the future.
<troy_s> nysosym: Simply examine the design trends around you
<nysosym> i think, are very less surfaces for the future
<troy_s> nysosym: In vehicles, furniture, architecture, etc.
<troy_s> Design 'trends' tend to reflect cultural values
<troy_s> As we are living with 80s computing trends, they tend to still reflect the values of the 80s
<troy_s> being gadets, plastics, etc.
<nysosym> troy_s: ok, but the glossy look has a very high priority in many kinds of technology, TFT-Screens, Handys, Notebooks etc.
<troy_s> 90s introduced the idea that we have a responsibility to the environment -- recycling, global warming, etc., -- and by no fluke -- a good deal of 'organic grown' produce became mainstream.
<troy_s> nysosym: Yes.  They are chasing yesterday.
<troy_s> nysosym: If you look to the entire spectrum of technology vendors
<troy_s> nysosym: How many are noted for their design innovation?  ;)
<troy_s> that is a pretty good indicator.
<troy_s> I can think of Apple in the 90s.  That is about where it ends.
<nysosym> ohh i think i know many design inovations in technology, especially in concept cars. The glossy look is very actual, and aluminum although. That all thing that we have in the past or in these time
<nysosym> really new structures aren't availabe
<troy_s> when i said technology vendors, i was specifically referring to computing, sorry.
<troy_s> Some car design has been innovated.
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> but the 'plastic' design issue is larger than simply discussing gloss -- there are many natural organic objects that offer specular gloss etc.
<troy_s> it really is the 'full' communication package -- for example, look at Vista's packaging
<troy_s> The inner display 'retainer' clip is clearly visible, the product case is thick enough to expose the refraction of the plastic, etc.
<troy_s> the packaging artwork binds up the plastic glossy feel.
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> Very clearly they are trying to catch onto the consumer 'must have this shiny plastic gadget' trend.
<nysosym> and again i agree with u, i waiting for a long time, for something new on the desktop market. Organic structures are very good, u will have the feeling, that du doesn't use a computer, but a thing that u help to life your life.
<troy_s> Yep!
<troy_s> Bingo - smack on.
<troy_s> Computers went from being expensive toys (Apple ] [ era)
<troy_s> to useful 'office equipment' (Win 3.1 era)
<troy_s> to very much a manifestation of life
<troy_s> art/music/
<troy_s> education
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> r
<troy_s> 'real life'
<troy_s> and therefore, the no brainer design direction is to reflect those values in the design of the desktop computer / interface.
<nysosym> yes, that's the trend, life your life on a PC, without a feeling that u use a PC. So many portals for people, games, blogs, video communitys ect.
<nysosym> that feeling should be banned on the desktop
<nysosym> and again, these will be possible with multitouch displays
<troy_s> Realistically, Ubuntu is a perfect candidate to establish the newer trend.
<troy_s> It simply 'fits' too well.
<nysosym> fresh design in combination with a new input method will be the best thing to give people these feelings
<troy_s> Ok.  I must run out to pick up some things for the house.  Chat soon.
<troy_s> Great chatting with you again nysosym .
<nysosym> ok, have a nice day and hope to have such a nice conversation soon ;)
<nysosym> in that way http://rebron.org/blogarchives/pimpzilla.jpg
<troy_s> LOL
<troy_s> that's hilarious
<troy_s> Awsome
<nysosym> these are although a very nice structur ;)
<troy_s> _hilarious_
<troy_s> Hell that is funny.
<nysosym> yes, but something new ;)
<troy_s> Do you get your private messages?
<msikma> Hmm, that screenshot is Dutch
<troy_s> That is damn funny
<nysosym> yes i get them all :)
<nysosym> troy_s: ?
<nysosym> jabber has lost the connection
<nysosym> hi darkmatter
<darkmatter> good afternoon nysosym
<nysosym> how are u? :)
<darkmatter> me?? I'm doing alright... just woke up actually. How are you doing?
<nysosym> i need some sleep, but i have no reaction to do that ^^
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-02-17
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> Now Playing: Lateralus by Tool from Lateralus (2:59/9:23)
<darkmatter> oops.. wrong tab
<darkmatter> >_>
<troy_s> Greets darkmatter
<darkmatter> morn troy_s
<troy_s> darkmatter: Another tool fan ;)
<troy_s> Good stuff.
<darkmatter> troy_s, yup
<nysosym> wb darkmatter
<darkmatter> :)
<darkmatter> nor for long.. think I may need to reboot in a sec
<nysosym> good bye all
<kwwii> re
<kwwii> troy_s: ping? I got rounded box's working in GDM
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/ubuntuscreen.png
<BHSPitLappy> pretty
<BHSPitMonkey> question
<kwwii> going to bed soon
<kwwii> 4am here
<coz_> 10PM here
<kwwii> lucky you
<kwwii> sleep time here
<coz_> kwwii, well been wher eyouare sleep wise didn't like going to bed at 4am:)
<coz_> kwwii, sleep well guy rest is more importatnt that irc
<troy_s> kwwii yeah i saw that.
<troy_s> kwwii its pretty simple
<troy_s> as you found out.
<nysosym> hi darkmatter :)
<darkmatter> hi nyosym
<nysosym> still allive? :D
<darkmatter> yes... about to work on my them a bit... just finished updating my e17 install
<darkmatter> *theme
<nysosym> nice to hear :)
<darkmatter> damn... enlightenment has the prettiest icons
<nysosym> nice, but not the best, i think
<elkbuntu> it'd be nicer if it were stable
<nysosym> wb darkmatter and hi andreasn :)
<andreasn> hey
<darkmatter> hi
<darkmatter> hmmm... e is getting pretty
<darkmatter> http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs412&d=07076&f=Screenshot.png
<nysosym> darkmatter: sure, but e17 is tooo unstable
<darkmatter> nysosym, no its not.. its perfectly stable... until tomorrows update :P
<nysosym> brbl, cya all :)
<nysosym> re
<nysosym> hi klepas :)
<klepas> hey :)
<nysosym> my first steps in grunge look, what do u think about? :D
<nysosym> http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=testik4.png
<klepas> rockin' :)
<klepas> what's it for?
<nysosym> only a idea for the #ubun2design project :)
<nysosym> read more
<nysosym> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubun2design/u2Reference/u2OfficialDesignGuidelines
<klepas> nice
* klepas bookmarks
<BHSPitMonkey_> If I just want to start figuring out glade and make a mock-up or two, should I get glade-gnome-3?
<BHSPitMonkey_> or glade-gnome-2? or glade-2 or glade-3?
<Riddell> BHSPitMonkey: glade-2 seems most common
<Riddell> although some people use glade-3 and it's not clever enough to tell you which you need if you open an existing file
<BHSPitMonkey> yeah..
<kwwii> re
<kwwii> great, inkscape dies again
<nysosym> hi there :)
<kwwii> howdy
<nysosym> hi kwwii, how are u?  :)
<kwwii> I wish that I knew how to take a screenshot of gdm
<kwwii> nysosym: good, and you?
<kwwii> went out last night with a bunch of old suse friends
<nysosym> fine :)
<kwwii> and got totally plastered
<nysosym> hehe :)
<nysosym> hmmm u can use xnest to make a gdm screenshot
<kwwii> yeah, I wonder how well that works with aixgl
<nysosym> it works, but what is your problem?
<kwwii> just worried about installing it :-)
<kwwii> since I need this machine to work
<nysosym> ok, that's a problem ^^
<nysosym> kwwii: what do u think about my first steps in grunge style?
<nysosym> http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=testik4.png
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> did you trace that?
<nysosym> hmm what do u mean?
<nysosym> i had these in svg too, when u that mean ^^
<kwwii> I meant taking a pic and then running a trace program on it (or the built in function in inkscape) to create vectors out of it
<nysosym> yes, that's the way that i used to made these :)
<nysosym> the simplest and best way i think
<kwwii> yepp
<nysosym> any ideas to improve these? :D
<nysosym> i'm open for everything ;)
<kwwii> smooth the vectors
<nysosym> hmm but it's should look "dirty"
<kwwii> perhaps work on the colors then
<kwwii> gotta restart X brb
<nysosym> ok :)
<nysosym> thx for ideas :)
<nysosym> kwwii: is it possible, that i can see the results of your actual work? :)
<kwwii> nysosym: on gdm you mean?
<nysosym> yes
<kwwii> once I figure out how to make a screenshot, es
<kwwii> yes
<nysosym> hmm and when u change to your new gdm, start xnest, make a screenshot and after that, u change to your "old" gdm theme, i think your working machine is it irresistible
<kwwii> I need xnest to to run the gdmthemetester
<nysosym> hmm in my own experience is xnest only a new terminal with a running x server, the new gdm is automaticly in there, i didn't need a gdmthemetester.
<nysosym> *automatic ^^
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/Screenshot.png
<kwwii> nysosym: now it works
<nysosym> thx kwwii, it looks very very nice! :)
<kwwii> thanks :-)
<nysosym> one idea, is it possible to made a little shadow on the upper side of the bottom line?
<kwwii> I am working on that part now
<nysosym> nice, something like that?
<nysosym> http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=g3171zh3.png
<kwwii> something like that but simpler
<nysosym> cool, i'm happy :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-02-18
<kwwii> hey all....
<kwwii> wake up!
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/ubuntu_feisty_screen3.png
<darkmatter> kwwii, very nice
<darkmatter> oh... love the comments in the oxygen trunk ;-)
<kwwii> darkmatter: yeah, I kinda flipped out
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> what did he do?
<troy_s> kwwii nicer -- on the lean logo.
<troy_s> if you want to add the shadow, just replace the rectangle with an svg.
<troy_s> relatively simple
<kwwii> troy_s: which one do you mean?
<kwwii> troy_s: do you mean a shadow on the login window in the middle?
<kwwii> everything expect for the bg, and the logo are svgs
<kwwii> icons and text are pixmaps too
<kwwii> well
<kwwii> text is text
<kwwii> you get my meaning
<kwwii> I'll push a branch now
<troy_s> kwwii the thinner logo looks better.
<troy_s> at least sabdfl will let the snorefest go
<troy_s> he didn't want to change anything at all during edgy
<troy_s> it was a little frustrating
<kwwii> pushing a branch now
<troy_s> is the text hard coded still, or did you take the liberty of changing that?
<kwwii> troy_s: not sure I understand you...
<kwwii> the thing I would like to change most is the icons
<kwwii> and the color choice
<kwwii> it worls poorly
<kwwii> works
<kwwii> ok, pushed the stuff I missed before
<kwwii> hello?
<kwwii> hi klepas
<kwwii> morning there?
<klepas> hey kwwii
<klepas> what's up?
<klepas> yea :)
<klepas> well, early afternoon
<kwwii> just finished working on gdm
<klepas> 12:20 :)
<kwwii> hehe
<klepas> nice :)
<klepas> finished http://klepas.org/Got_It/
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/ubuntu_feisty_screen3.png
<klepas> nice; is that going to be fiesty's official theme?
<kwwii> nice :-)
<kwwii> klepas: it is the beginning of one, yes
<kwwii> I am sure a lot will change
<kwwii> what do you think?
<klepas> going for darker tones
<klepas> i like it
<kwwii> cool :-)
<kwwii> it probably needs a lot of work that I don't see now, but I have been working on that all evening
<kwwii> need to sleep on it
<klepas> http://klepas.org/Got_It/themes.html#download :)
<kwwii> sweet
<troy_s> kwwii we tried to change the color
<troy_s> to something that was a little more in hue line
<troy_s> or off to the sides
<kwwii> troy_s: on the icons, you mean?
<troy_s> yes
<troy_s> sabdfl kaiboshed it all
<kwwii> they seem too dark to me
<troy_s> in fact, we had something that was very very simple at one point
<troy_s> a clear translucent bubble etc.
<troy_s> all worked very well
<troy_s> he kaiboshed everything
<troy_s> like a fool.
<kwwii> I'll look into changing them
<troy_s> more or less along the lines of what you are going for now
<kwwii> well, we will see what happens
<troy_s> I initially tried changing nothing except bring the wallpaper/gdm into al8ignment
<troy_s> of course, that was in the dapper era
<kwwii> 2:35am here
<kwwii> time to sleep
<troy_s> where the wallpaper had to be 'dark' to prevent that 'eye strain' crap.
<troy_s> yah get some sleep
<troy_s> good work on the logo text
<troy_s> it is pretty minimal, but hopefully he will take the changes this time.
<kwwii> thanks :-) it still needs some work, but it is pretty hard to get it right
<troy_s> last time he simply wasn't ready.
<troy_s> yeah
<troy_s> well it is soooo minor that it isn't really an issue
<kwwii> we'll see
<troy_s> and i can't even really believe that we are scrutinizing such silly small changes.
<troy_s> but alas...
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> I am off ...
<kwwii> see you
<troy_s> nicht kwwii
<troy_s> chat tomorrw
<BHSPitMonkey> yawn.
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<klepas> darkmatter: ping
<BHSPitLappy> hmm
<BHSPitLappy> I have a bone to pick with an icon bug, but is it worth it?
<BHSPitLappy> for all I know, it could be fixed for feisty already
<BHSPitLappy> well, in case anyone listens, I'm referring to the orange "you've got updates" icon.  It's not transparent around it. I hate it.
<BHSPitLappy> http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/4109/screenshot1qp2.png
<nysosym> hi there :)
<klepas> moin nysosym
<nysosym> hi klepas :)
<nysosym> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCCVt0Wyn4M << just amazing!
<nysosym> brb cya
<troy_s> BHSPitLappy: I think that icon is going to be changed anyways.
<troy_s> It's easier if you just abort that system tray altogether.
<troy_s> ;)
<nysosym> hi there :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-02-11
<abdulla> guys im fed up of these themes , their is about 8 people who are wise enough to make great themes like LXG .
<abdulla> im wondering why people are doing these scary / gothic / sad themes
<abdulla> and we dont want windows themes
<abdulla> i think many are lazy to speak this but now let me represent the 17,000 ubuntu users
<abdulla> if ubuntu want to succeed for 8.04 i recommend :) a theme to be in with hardy , a theme that will be unique not dark but a colory theme which makes the eye comfortable with the use but not complication
<Toma-> have you got anything to submit?
<abdulla> i hope the art people can dream the answer because even me i dont know how a comfortable theme must be but my theory is their
<abdulla> nothing to submit but my analogy of comfort says most themes are black and sad we want something like LXG but greater and it can be greater if people work hard on it like they do with gothic themes
<Toma-> lxg?
<abdulla> letme show u
<abdulla> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/LXG+%28LinuX+G%29?content=72870
<abdulla> brb
<Toma-> are you on the mailing list?
<abdulla> back Toma- wwhat mailing list?
<Toma-> the ubuntu-art mailing list
<abdulla> for?
<Toma-> thats where all the development is.
<abdulla> i didnt get you
<abdulla> i visit gnome-look.org
<Toma-> i wouldnt rant in IRC about what needs changing and fixing.
<Toma-> also, the stuff on gnome-look is generally not whats going into the next ubuntu
<abdulla> i dont want to speak to ubuntu - art list is their a linux art list? something i can talk to the osts around debian art ubuntu art red hat art etc.. , because maybe i can get great feedback which hopefully i have ingitiated a dejavu wakeup call from their nightmare themes which they are diving deep insuch projects i just hope they realise and maybe change their route and style this will give a great score for LINUX as a great System
<abdulla>  then MAC and WIndows not only great , but cooler :)
<abdulla> im in ubuntu-art where is the mailing list?
<Toma-> Goooooogle http://www.google.com/
<Toma-> the thing is, alot of the art for distros comes from the community
<Toma-> so there may be piles and piles of crub themes there are also some great themes out there
<Toma-> same with the windows community
<Toma-> the default works ok, then you can get some nice themes, and some Hello Kitty themes
<abdulla> hehehe so men must be the gothic life
<abdulla> i dont know why im complaining after i use LXG and clear looks but  im not an arts person but im a manager which i want to be suited with comfort rather then a client who works
<Toma-> exactly.
<abdulla> see , if a system wants to win it must be very clear :) something which gives the sytem a glossy happiness
<Toma-> no-one i speak to in the community uses the default theme anyway
<abdulla> do you know what i dont like about the backgrounds? it disturbs the themes do you know that?
<Toma-> personally, gloss makes me sick
<abdulla> you must have a background to match a reciprocal of your theme so it may look good
<abdulla> no i just wish if their is an engine or something im not good in computer talks but i mean something which will make the back ground become 8 frames behind the themes and windows which will make theme show clearer however when minimize to desktop the background gets back to default 8 steps forward
<Toma-> fullstops...
<abdulla> i mean by 8 frames away from the windwos/themes i mean that not 8 frames as go behind but 8 frames means X8 reversable in colors etc.. which shows the picture as its getting mozarty style which makes the theme show better and concentration and comfort of eye is better
<abdulla> the art people know what im talking about
<abdulla> somebody send these logs to ubuntu art lo
<Toma-> mozart style?
<Toma-> ...he was a musician...
<abdulla> no i dont know what was it
<abdulla> mozart its something similar in words
<abdulla> which makes photo lower in gaze get it?
<Toma-> monet?
<abdulla> dunno lets see this
<Toma-> ive got to run, sorry
<abdulla> i wish im an artist
<abdulla> take care Toma-
<abdulla> if any art french man here please read all i wrote he might get it
<abdulla> cya and i hope somebody do such theme :)
<abdulla> and make such engine
<abdulla> and technology
<troy_s> Otkadeto returns!
<_MMA_> Where!?
<Toma-> hey _MMA_
<Toma-> I know you like the grunge thing...
<Toma-> http://members.iinet.net.au/~haste/e17/Untitled.png
<Toma-> the cool think about e17, is that with the right coding, those little corners will work on any resolution without and issues
<Toma-> :P
<_MMA_> Toma-: troy_s might be the guy to talk to about that for out Hardy+1 release. :P
<Toma-> cool :)
<maximilion> Good afternoon :)
<maximilion> What's the best program to create "animated PNG" cursors?
<maximilion> (PNG as in 8 bit transparency)
<kwwii> maximilion: what kind of animation? png does not support animation in and of itself
<maximilion> Well, .mng I guess?
<maximilion> I just installed Ubuntu 3 days ago, a bit wet behind my ears :)
<maximilion> But I don't know how to go from .mng to a theme package, so it can be installed and used...
<kwwii> if you want to make an mng you can use imagemagick
<kwwii> just make all the states as png files and then use imagemigick to create an mng out of them
<kwwii> there are scripts for turning pixmaps into the right format for the cursors
<maximilion> No icon editors? :o
<kwwii> hehe, nope
<maximilion> I found one, anyway: "Gnome Icon Editor". If it can save .xpm, can the cursor then be installed?
<maximilion> URL: http://linuxappfinder.com/package/gnome-iconedit
<kwwii> xpm does not support animation, it is a simple pixmap format
<kwwii> and even gimp would save xpm files
<_MMA_> GIMP also saves .mng.
<maximilion> Yeah, it didn't say it supported animated cursors.
<maximilion> I didn't know .xpm didn't support animation - is there a file extension for animated cursors?
<_MMA_> Best to grab a set and look.
<kwwii> maximilion: the cursors are not in xpm format anyway
<kwwii> they have their own format
<kwwii> hi _MMA_
<maximilion> _MMA_: It seems people use icon-slicer to get an XML file+cursor/icon files to make a theme package?
<_MMA_> GIMP *might* do it with the gimp-gap plugin.
<_MMA_> maximilion: No clue.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Hi
<kwwii> maximilion: no idea, the only way I have ever done it is using the scripts available with X using both png and svg as source files
<kwwii> in any case you will still need to draw each state of the animation
<kwwii> s/state/frame
<_MMA_> yep.
<maximilion> Yeah, don't need to be doing anything extreme, basically I just want to instantly see where the pointer is just by looking at the screen
<maximilion> So there is no filetype associated with "replace 'pointer' cursor with this animation please"? :)
<_MMA_> maximilion: Comb through gnome-look. Should give you an idea.
<maximilion> I would have to make a theme consisting of 1 XML file and 1 "pointer" file? XML is no problem I think, I could look at an existing theme. But I would need to know how to make the cursorfile though, since it has no extension or anything.
<maximilion> If I could draw frames in gimp or export from imagemagick, I could just replace that file I'm currently using?
<maximilion> You should add .org to that _MMA_ - some of us don't know all the Linux sites yet ;)
<_MMA_> Bet to try yourself. Just start hacking. ;)
<_MMA_> *Best
<maximilion> I thought it was a utility, like gconf-editor :)
<kwwii> nope, you cannot just replace the existing cursors with an xpm or png
<kwwii> basically you create the files and then use xcursorgen to make the actual files that X can use
<kwwii> that script needs png files
<kwwii> you also have to define the nominal size and hotspot information
<kwwii> erm, as well as a ms-delay for an animation
<maximilion> Yes, which is what you usually do in an icon editor ;)
<maximilion> So imagemagick can't do this?
<kwwii> I have never seen an icon editor which can do this
<kwwii> cursors are not icons ;-)
<maximilion> I think this a good start utility when I setup coding SDL ;)
<_MMA_> maximilion: It's really just a situation where digging up documentation on the web is best. Help here would require alot of hand-holding. Why I haven't tried to do it myself. ;) Tools on linux can be very different. You wont always find what you're used to from another OS.
<maximilion> kwwii: Well, I meant cursor editor... many come as editors for both cursors and icons
<kwwii> maximilion: on which platform?
<maximilion> Coding SDL? Linux ofc :)
<maximilion> I will look if my aniCursor on XP will export Linux themes
<maximilion> Food! Back in a bit, thanks to all of you for you help :D
<kwwii> these editors you have used in XP allow you to enter the hotspot, etc?
<maximilion> kwwii: Yes, of course. Such as these http://www.bluechillies.com/software/icon-edit-linux.html
<kwwii> maximilion: it doesn't look like any of those will export cursors for X though :-(
<maximilion> No, one of them imported them though
<maximilion> kwwii: AniCursor didn't either. So I think I will get proper docs or ask at gnome-look.org, and make a utility.
<Toma-> can gnome background do anything cool in terms of relation to the corners and alignment?
<_MMA_> Toma-: Only with Brightside or Compiz. AFAIK
<Toma-> Ahh ok
 * kwwii heads home for the day
<salty-horse> troy_s, have you, by any chance, found where the Human arrow icons are? :)
<kwwii> salty-horse: they would be in the human theme :-)
<salty-horse> kwwii, I looked hard and didn't find them
<_MMA_> Which arrows?
<_MMA_>  /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/actions ?
<thorwil> yep, there's back and forward
<salty-horse> no. the ones that appear in, say, gnome-panel's hide buttons
<salty-horse> and in scrollbars
<salty-horse> (if those are the same)
<_MMA_> Thats part of the theme.
<thorwil> not icon theme, but widget theme
<_MMA_> Dependent on the engine I believe.
<_MMA_> Yeah ^^^
<kwwii> those are drawn with cairo
<kwwii> no easy way to get to those
<kwwii> but it should be really easy to draw them
<thorwil> a one eyed man could do it with one hand tied on his back!!
<kwwii> :p
 * _MMA_ pokes thorwil in the eye.
<salty-horse> but where are they defined? (the drawing instructions)
<thorwil> _MMA_ hits glass
<thorwil> salty-horse: what do you want to do with it?
<salty-horse> I want to figure out why the arrows in the gnome-panel's hide buttons are misaligned. the left one is ok, but the right one is off by a pixel (both buttons are the same width, but the arrows are not positioned the same way inside them -- Clearlooks is fine, Human isn't)
<thorwil> salty-horse: you might have more luck in ubuntu-desktop, as this purely technical now. you could also file a bug report and see ...
<salty-horse> I'll file a report, let the magic elves do the hard work :)
<_MMA_> Id file against ubuntlooks as thats the engine it uses.
<salty-horse> ok
<kwwii> my guess is that is has something to do with how it is antialiased
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-02-12
<DShepherd> where can i find the logs for the last ubuntu-artwork meeting?
<kwwii> there was no meeting
<kwwii> as per my email
<DShepherd> oh ok
<kwwii> since nobody replied to the first email
<DShepherd> thanks kwwii
<kwwii> no prob
<kwwii> I will be sending another email soon
<DShepherd> ok
<kwwii> so that we can have a real meeting
<DShepherd> real?
<DShepherd> :-)
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> as real as possible with this bunch :p
<DShepherd> ok
<DShepherd> kwwii, any clue when the art direction will be decided? or are you still watching and waiting?
<kwwii> I am going to start testing things for hardy tomorrow
<kwwii> so tomorrow feta kuli goes in as wallpaper
<kwwii> and we will start testing the new clear looks stuff
<kwwii> for hardy we will not change much more than that kind of stuff
<DShepherd> ok
<DShepherd> kwwii, so should i gather that the art direction is clear now
<DShepherd> ?
<kwwii> DShepherd: yes, I assumed that after my mail a few weeks ago it was
<DShepherd> ok
<DShepherd> that is indeed sweet kwwii.
<kwwii> it is in my email from the 28th of January, I can resend it to you if you'd like
<DShepherd> kwwii, let me see if can find it first
<DShepherd> maybe i missed it or overlooked it or something
<kwwii> no worries, you are not the first to have missed it :-)
<DShepherd> now, tat makes me feel so much better now :-)
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> I kind of expected everyone to flip out and ask a bunch of questions but nobody responded at all
<kwwii> well, a few responded but not what I expected
<kwwii> that's all from me for tonight, see you tomorrow
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-02-13
<troy_s> kwwii: Tell me that you added a little complexity to the fela kuti wallpaper.
<kwwii> troy_s: actually I was going to use your version :p
<troy_s> kwwii: YIKES.  It needs a tidy... that was a PoP.
<kwwii> troy_s: right, I fixed up the brown bg and made the stuff in the background a bit more transparent
<kwwii> anyway, it is just a test :p (and it is already submitted so it is too late now!)
<troy_s> kwwii: Yeah the palettizing is what I was probably getting at.
 * troy_s outs.
<kwwii> see you
 * kwwii heads off to pick up a valentine day present for the little woman
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> funky
<Rapouc> hello there
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-02-14
<xivulon> Hi all
<kwwii> hi
<xivulon> Not sure if you heard from heno, but we would need some artwork for wubi and umenu
<xivulon> I did some basic one myself
<xivulon> at the very least need icons for xubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu
<xivulon> did not manage to find them around
<xivulon> so now I am using the ubuntu icon all over, which of course is less than desirable
<kwwii> I made an image for him yesterday...did you see that?
<xivulon> ah no
<xivulon> do you have a link?
<kwwii> as far as icons go, we do not have anything other than the logos
<kwwii> it is an image for the background of the win installer thingy
<xivulon> can you make icons from the svg for me?
<kwwii> if you have inkscape you can make them yourself :-)
<kwwii> although we might want to use some 3D version
<xivulon> I am very short on time since feature freeze is tomorrow, did look for 5 minutes in inkscape and failed
<kwwii> I guess we could take the 3D logos from GDM/KDM
<xivulon> Would need the equivalent of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=UbuntuLogo.ico
<kwwii> well, you need to export the bitmap in inkscape and then open that in gimp and save it as in .ico file
<xivulon> kwwii: I do not have a linux machine handy at the moment, the first time I will get one is tonight, and have yet to test the new ISO, which gets high priority
<kwwii> so you only need a kubuntu and edubuntu version, right?
<xivulon> and xubuntu
<xivulon> thanks
<xivulon> If I am not around you can ask heno (or anyone in the ubuntu-installer team) to drop them in umenu/wubi > data/images/Distroname.ico
<kwwii> I might get around to it later tonight, kinda busy atm
<xivulon> sure
<xivulon> Current artwork is here: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/umenu/devel/files/agostino.russo%40gmail.com-20080214093250-yz6az1e54m6y17u5?file_id=images-20080212233008-kvy2sm0usmkk5nf3-11
<xivulon> I just took the basic log svg and dropped a shadow in gimp
<xivulon> that is as far as my graphic skills go :P
<xivulon> If you want to test it from linux, use bzr to grab umenu sources, then run:
<xivulon> make prerequisites && make && make debug
<kwwii> hehe, not enough time for all of that..I might find time to make convert and icon or such later though
<xivulon> The icon should ideally be ready before alpha, for the rest I guess general artwork deadlines apply
<andreasn> kwwii: hi!
<andreasn> kwwii: it seems I got unsubscribed from the mailing list some time ago (to many bounced messages or something weird)
<andreasn> I saw in the archives that there was some meeting coming up (or has there already been one?)
<kwwii> andreasn: I am going to announce another meeting today
<kwwii> andreasn: I think that after a certain amount of time it auto-unsubscribes people
<andreasn> ah, because I hadnt sent anything in a while?
<kwwii> xivulon: luckily the artwork deadlines are set by me :-)
<kwwii> andreasn: actually, I think it just does that to normal members all the time
<kwwii> it is the launchpad team stuff which does it I think
<andreasn> ah
<xivulon> kwwii: ahah great news
<xivulon> by the way, it might be a good idea to have the icons also on the wiki, others might want to use them too
<kwwii> xivulon: not sure if there is a good reason to put an .ico version of the logo (which is available in the more flexible svg format anyway)
<kwwii> on the wiki
<kwwii> andreasn: it is nothing personal, no worries :-)
<andreasn> kwwii: regarding the mailing list? oh, I know what kind of person you are... ;)
<kwwii> hehe
<andreasn> heavy drinking and randomly deleting people on a Wednesday night
<kwwii> I spend the evenings with a beer in my hand randomly unsubscribing people
<kwwii> lol, exactly
<andreasn> anyway, Ill try to attend to the meeting
<kwwii> ok, time for lunch, bbiab
<kwwii> cool
<andreasn> now, lunch
<xivulon> lunch time for me too, bye and thx
<troy_s> kwwii: You have a screenie of how the wallpaper looks in Hardy?
 * thorwil builds a rocket
<kwwii> troy_s: nope, I want to get the clear looks stuff taken care of first
<avetenebrae> hi all
<kwwii> hi
<avetenebrae> hi kwwii
<avetenebrae> what's up here?
<kwwii> not much atm
<avetenebrae> lol ok
<avetenebrae> first time here, wanted to look around ubuntu designers ;)
<kwwii> probably a better time to get a good opinion of what goes on here
<avetenebrae> how does the collaboration work?
<kwwii> generally, people watch the mailing list, here and perhaps the blueprints on launchpad to know what is going on and they help if they can
<avetenebrae> ok thanks!
<avetenebrae> where is the mailing list please?
<kwwii> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
<avetenebrae> thanks :)
<kwwii> np
<avetenebrae> by all!
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-02-15
<hbons> hi, where do i propose a alternate theme to ship with ubuntu?
<_MMA_> hbons: On the wiki.
<hbons> _MMA_: ok, thanks:)
<TuxCrafter> hello everybody
<TuxCrafter> is the fluxbuntu artwork creator in this channel?
<nothlit> troy_s: ^
<troy_s> nothlit: ?
<kwwii_> ok, so apparently my packaging skills suck
<kwwii_> anyone here want to fix up the wallpaper package?
<troy_s> kwwii_: What is there to fix?  Makefile hell?
<kwwii_> troy_s: no, just some funky changelog stuff I don't get
<troy_s> ?
<nothlit> troy_s: someone asked for you earlier (flux art) :)
<troy_s> nothlit: Oh missed it.
<kwwii_> apparently the last version was wrong and now my version is wrong as well
<kwwii_> I'll figure it out
<kwwii_> personally, I find that having artists do packaging is silly
<nothlit> isn't there a whole desktop team of developers who can package?
<kwwii_> nothlit: well, nobody is interested
<kwwii_> it took me two days to get one of them to even look at the source packages I made
<xivulon> kwwii: added a few basic icons yesterday, in effect was quite trivial!
<xivulon> I had been looking for some "tools" to generate icons within inkscape the day before did not occur to me to try save as in gimp...
<xivulon> I must say they look far worse than the ubuntu one though...
<xivulon> all these to say that I still need (proper) icons, but not that urgently... :P
<kwwii> xivulon: cool, I'll add that to our team meeting and maybe we can find someone to help
<xivulon> thx
<Toma-> im looking for an article or guide on creating kde themes... anyone?
<kwwii> Toma-: there is no general article on such stuff
<kwwii> Toma-: but I am pretty good at it :-)
<Toma-> what did you do to find out how stuff works?
<Toma-> is it all plain text stuff?
<kwwii> well, I have quite a few years experience (did all the suse artwork for 7 years)
<kwwii> gotta head out now for a bit, bbl
<Toma-> hmm ok thanks anyway
<thorwil> i just learned that the artwork for the annoying bugs and brainstorm sites have to be modified, to not contain any hint of the ubuntu logo
<andreasn> thorwil: hey!
<andreasn> thorwil: thanks for your e-mail with the gtk logo
<thorwil> that all because people on different levels have different ideas how official or "community-driven" the sites shall be
<thorwil> andreasn: hi. np
<andreasn> I think it looks great, we should probably add the thinner "inside" lines so it looks transparent
<thorwil> so this is what you get for investing days. upper management kills it and never talks to you
<thorwil> andreasn: bbiab
<thorwil> andreasn: rl interruption, sorry
<andreasn> np
<thorwil> inside lines?
<andreasn> http://live.gnome.org/GTKLogo?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=gtk-logo.png
<andreasn> the "inner" dudes are slimmer
<thorwil> aha!
<andreasn> I can add that to your version, if you dont want to do it yourself
<thorwil> andreasn: cool, it's your logo ;)
<andreasn> Im really glad that someone with real perspective drawing knowledge took a look at this :)
<andreasn> I kind of slept through those classes...
<thorwil> andreasn: that someone is called Blender ;)
<andreasn> aha!
<andreasn> :D
<thorwil> while i can do that manually, i took blender to have it absolutely perfect
<thorwil> and for being able to fine tune the proportions by moving the camera
<thorwil> kwwii: do you see a conflict between my annoying_bugs and brainstorm logos and the ubuntu logo trademark policy?
<_MMA_> thorwil: Can you link us to something saying there was a conflict?
<thorwil> _MMA_: private mail from henrik, so no
<thorwil> i'm only disclosing this since the decision will be out for everyone to see and maybe i can get some argumentative help
<_MMA_> Well if this was private, I dont think it should be brought up here. But generally speaking, I can see why people would want the logo gone. At least for the Launchpad bugs one.
<kwwii> thorwil: well, good brand policy says that one never changes a logo but I am not sure how well that fits in this case
<kwwii> thorwil: who told you this?
<thorwil> kwwii: henrik told me. he said that the company actively works to avoid abuse of the logo and he implies its somehow in the trademark policy
<thorwil> would anyone say google has a bad brand policy?
<kwwii> thorwil: hrm, I'll ask him about whether this is his opinion or whether he got that from someone else
<thorwil> kwwii: no need, i guess
<kwwii> google is a special case as those changes are part of there short term branding
<kwwii> s/there/their
<thorwil> kwwii: this _might_ come from the global head of oerations
<kwwii> are those logos for official sites?
<kwwii> thorwil: I doubt that it came from anyone like that :p
<thorwil> +p
<kwwii> I know that we allow people to change the logo for non-official sites
<thorwil> kwwii: seems it has just now been decided to treat the sites more like community projects and less official-canonicalesc
<kwwii> hrm, then it should not be a problem I think
<kwwii> I will check into this...the work you did was really nice I would hate to see that go to waste
<thorwil> kwwii: thank you, this is what i was hoping for! :)
<thorwil> maybe i should have PMed you, but earlier today i was a bit angry and thought everyone should know about these communication issues :/
<kwwii> hehe, no worries, I can understand your frustration
<thorwil> phew :)
<kwwii> well, I am off for the evening, bbl
<kwwii> thorwil: got a quick response from Henrick...it was a pretty official decision but I am discussing it with those who made it, I'll let you know what happens
<thorwil> kwwii: ok
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-02-16
<ubuntuwestbengal> is there an approval process to join the artwork team?
<ubuntuwestbengal> is there an approval process to join the artwork team?
<Madpilot> not really
<thorwil> _MMA_: boo!
<_MMA_> baaaaa..
<thorwil> :)
<thorwil> _MMA_: what do you have in mind?
<_MMA_> I have some ideas/examples but just wanted to see if you were interested 1st. Reply back if you can and Ill do up something up with details.
<_MMA_> Im kinda cleaning up the house ATM. Just happened to be vacuuming near the 'puter. :P
<thorwil> ok
<thorwil> suck on, then ;)
<_MMA_> :P
<troy_s> njpatel: How goes AWN 3.0 dev?
<njpatel> njpatel: not very well :-) been unwell so it was stalled until a few days ago
<njpatel> back to normal now, so working towards it
<njpatel> sorry troy_s, not njpatel, I think it's time for some rest :-)
<troy_s> njpatel: Not njpatel?
<njpatel> troy_s: no, I meant I wrote my previous message for attention of myself :-)
<troy_s> LOL
<njpatel> i'm the correct njpatel :-)
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-02-17
<troy_s> thorwil: How are things?
<thorwil> troy_s: fine. my rocket landed on the submissions page. and you?
<troy_s> thorwil: Not too bad.  Trying to tie up some web design crapps.
<thorwil> troy_s: crapps?
<troy_s> thorwil: Just some odds and ends.  A little bit of sorting through some of the more 'semantic' rubbish to make things tidier.
<troy_s> thorwil: How goes the idea site thing?
<thorwil> troy_s: waiting for the results of ken's intervention
<troy_s> thorwil: Ugh.
<troy_s> thorwil: I would avoid interventions... they are for naught in the grand scheme of things.
<troy_s> thorwil: In the end, it comes down to the fundamental issue that the people who are calling and steering 1) have no clue and 2) have no clue.
<troy_s> thorwil: And the steering, in the end, is atrocious anyways.  What our lovely little bunker of FOSS love culture fails to realize is that to have any impact in mainstream land of the type say, the Lutz campaign, takes an actual art director with bleeding edge vision.
<troy_s> thorwil: Hell -- _any_ degree of art awareness outside of this myopic field would help.
<thorwil> troy_s: i have nothing to lose. it's either logos as they are or nothing of my work at all (if they respect my wish)
<troy_s> thorwil: Good stance.
<thorwil> troy_s: people at the top might tell you that the project is successful the way it's run, so why change? ...
<troy_s> thorwil: The hyper-insecure branding is ridiculous anyways.  I have no clue why we insist on putting the bloody Ubuntu logo on everything.  It is damn mooky.
<troy_s> thorwil: I believe I have said that on a number of occasions.
<troy_s> thorwil: And on that count, one's definition of successful might change.
<troy_s> thorwil: One could argue that MS is successful, but their artistry and design leaves a little to be desired.
<troy_s> thorwil: And perhaps, in some fashion, all of that is compounding against them at this moment.
<thorwil> a little? but see, there are mayn people on the streets who don't see it. or don't care, at least
<troy_s> thorwil: Or vice versa, Apple's insistence on a clear vision perhaps has aided them when mainstream users choose a system based on words such as 'simplicity, elegance, etc.'
<troy_s> thorwil: Everyone sees it and everyone cares.
<troy_s> thorwil: Make no mistake, the average viewer is amazingly astute, even if they cannot vocalize it as such.
<troy_s> thorwil: Visual literacy is nothing more than another breed of literacy.  Many people cannot read or write, but they understand people speaking to them.
<troy_s> thorwil: Off to launch rockets with my daughter... chat soon.
<thorwil> ok
<thorwil> andreasn: thanks :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-02-09
<kwwii> q!
<Flannel> wq
<Yasumoto> kwwii: sorry to bug you again, but I totally forget
<Yasumoto> do you know who might have the original SVG for the bugjam logo?
<kwwii> Flannel: no doubt :p
<kwwii> Yasumoto: I'll boot my other laptop and check, one second
<Yasumoto> kwwii: awesome, thanks so much :)
<kwwii> Yasumoto: sorry, I cannot find it...no idea what happened
<kwwii> Yasumoto: bascially, it was just a couple of icons composited anyway
<Yasumoto> kwwii: aw, sorry about that, thanks for checking
<Yasumoto> do you happen to recall where you found the icons? We're trying to set up some banners for our event
<kwwii> Yasumoto: they are gnome icons, iirc :)
<kwwii> if not that, then tango I guess
<kwwii> Yasumoto: to be honest, that pic is a bit ugly
<kwwii> in the meantime, I imagine you could do much better
<Yasumoto> kwwii: alright, I gotcha
<Yasumoto> cool, thanks for the help :)
<Yasumoto> If we whip something "better" together, I'll be sure to let you know
<knome> wut
<knome> :)
<kwwii> Yasumoto: cool, that would be great
<dashua> Breathe power options = yummy :)
 * dashua waits to remove the green GNOME "running man"  in his FUSA applet
<_MMA_> dashua: Soon. ;)
<dashua> :)
<dashua> Man, they look good.
<dashua> If I were an artist, that would have been really close.
<dashua> Eggshell/satin like finish.
<darkmatter> _MMA_: just make sure breathe doesn't end up sucking hard and I won't have too kill you ;)
<_MMA_> darkmatter: It will be a reflection of the people who make it. Which sadly, atm, is 1 person. (with parts from the Oxygen folks)
<darkmatter> _MMA_: well, as long as its not tango styled you're relatively safe :P
<_MMA_> darkmatter: And *everyone* should remember, what's there now might not be there in 6months and beyond.
<_MMA_> I hope to get alot of stuff from Oxygen up as place holders soon. (Im mostly been doing mimetypes atm)
<darkmatter> _MMA_: indeed. one-ma dev is a pita (personal and ongoing experience with that :P)
<lobster> _MMA_ I saw you "have to" build country-flags, I have a large set of wolrds coutry flags here, I can send it you if you want to..
<_MMA_> lobster: Well, I don't "have to" but would like to as it's part of the Freedesktop spec. I'd like to see what you have.
<_MMA_> lobster: Did you create these?
<_MMA_> lobster: And an email is most likely best to transfer the files.
<lobster> no, I found it sometime in the web, don't know about the license
<_MMA_> Then sorry, I can't use them.
<lobster> Yes i Know, but maybe its just easy to redraw?
<_MMA_> I need to have all that stuff straight.
<lobster> kk
<_MMA_> lobster: I was actually thinking about using a circle with the flag in it (filling the circle) but I gotta get the base look right.
<darkmatter> ahh.. finally. I nice relaxing color combo :D http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7789/screenshot6ey9.png
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-02-10
<kwwii> _MMA_: hey man, do you remember if the usplash progress bar coordinates are from the top or the bottom?
<_MMA_> kwwii: No. Don't remember. Sorry.
<knome> 'lo. suppose we can use any jackalope artwork in the next xubuntu release as well, right?
<_MMA_> I don't see why not.
<knome> ok, thanks.
<knome> i'll let you all know if we use something.
<_MMA_> andreasn: Bah... Ruby scripts suck. python is better. :P http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~breathe-dev/breathe-icon-set/trunk/files
<andreasn> ah, scripting languages, I never really cared for scripting languages
<andreasn> once I was reading a book on php on the bus and a drunk programmer(?) told me that it was no longer "in"
<_MMA_> andreasn: :P Are you rendering multiple icons from a single file?
<andreasn> but it solved my problem with a website feed thing two days later
<andreasn> for the gpm thing? yes
<_MMA_> andreasn: Wow. A geek tellin' another geek he's uncool. :P
<andreasn> he had to get off at the next stop, so I never got to know what was "in"
<_MMA_> Python!! :P
<knome> monty python!
<_MMA_> andreasn: I was thinking about doing it (multiple icons from single file) for Breathe but I got things working fine atm. Don't wanna jinx it. :P
<andreasn> as long as it works it works. gpm was kind of a special case, since all the batteries have to be the same, and there are, like a hundred of them in total
<_MMA_> Ouch.
<andreasn> so it just use a clone for the base part of it
<andreasn> hugsie, um, kind of likes icons, a lot
<_MMA_> andreasn: I should probable ask JonCruz when he's in #inkscape but do you know how the ArtLibre icon spec is supposed to be supported *in* a set? ie: What category the icons go in?
<andreasn> hm, I guess that stuff like import/export, different zoom levels etc. would go into actions
<kwwii> _MMA_: ok, so should I go through with the mailing list rename?
<kwwii> _MMA_: moving ubuntu-art to ubuntu-art-discuss (while keeping everyone subscribed)
<andreasn> rotate and mirror are also actions, then we have a lot of "tools", is it possible to just come up with a new category name like that without breaking shit?
<andreasn> _MMA_, in short, I don't think I have a good answer to you. Maybe dobey have a good idea about it
<kwwii> hey andreasn, my plans for london have changed
<andreasn> kwwii, ah, good. Mine too :)
<kwwii> I will be there next week tue-thurs and the week after that tue-fri
<andreasn> thos won't be in town until early march again, so maybe I'll go there then
<kwwii> andreasn: hrm, I'll be in Cape Town the second week of march, not sure about london around that time yet
<_MMA_> andreasn: Ok. Ill ask Jon. :P
<kwwii> _MMA_: so what do you think about the email list?
<kwwii> they wanna do it now...don't want to hold them back from their work
<_MMA_> kwwii: I don't know. I'm generally a little hesitant about the idea still but the above looks fine.
<_MMA_> I just hope we can get the right people over to the new ubuntu-art.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Maybe the new one should be ubuntu-art-devel?
<kwwii> yeah, maybe
<_MMA_> kwwii: Wait!!
<kwwii> ?
<_MMA_> Maybe that's the solution? Make the new list ubuntu-art-devel?
<_MMA_> Kep things as they are?
<_MMA_> *Keep
<kwwii> yeah, just leave this list as is and create a new one
<kwwii> which is moderated, etc
<_MMA_> yep
<thorwil> stupid list remains stupid and we get a new clean one? ;)
<thorwil> although i have to say it has been quite focused, lately
<_MMA_> Might be best. Though, I remain hesitant since the issues that started this process months ago have for the most part subsided.
<_MMA_> thorwil: Agreed
<thorwil> i wonder what led this guy to think that themes specifically for the alphas would make sense: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/AlphaThemes
 * _MMA_ shrugs.
<_MMA_> Kinda sad the plan to have different wallpapers for the alphas fell through.
<thorwil> yes, makes one wonder why anyone would still submit anything
<_MMA_> thorwil: Here's SebastiÃ¡n. http://www.facebook.com/people/Sebastian-Porta/1148451871 Nice to see he's an older guy. :P
<thorwil> _MMA_: what, did you think he's 16? :)
<_MMA_> thorwil: Well, you can't really blame me as it is the norm. :) But given his writing style I woulda guessed 20's with a good head on his shoulders.
<thorwil> _MMA_: yeah. though what does writing style in a foreign language mean? :)
<zniavre> hello
<_MMA_> Even though I know it's his 2nd language, what he says, his choice of words, still lead me to believe he's not a kid.
<thorwil> ack
<zniavre> there is a way to make firefox and open office scrollbar as in nautilus or gtk apps ?
<_MMA_> zniavre: FF3 should grab the scrollbar fine. Im not sure about OO.o.
<zniavre> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/187396/jaunty.png
<zniavre> 3 softs 3 diffrents scrollbars
<_MMA_> zniavre: Yeah. Just slightly though.
<_MMA_> zniavre: What applet are you using to display the menu in the panelbar?
<zniavre> globalmenu 0.7
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-02-11
<_MMA_> ve it to me.
<_MMA_> gah
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> oh baby, I am soooo going to give it to you
<_MMA_> Pidgin does this thing where if you typing in one tab, then get a PM, it focuses the next tab. Not the PM. So if you're in the middle of typing and don't realize it, you get what I did above. Real annoying.
<kwwii> don't worry, the new notification stuff will fix everything
<_MMA_> \o/
<_MMA_> It's gonna be our duct tape.
<kwwii> it does indeed have a sticky feel to it
<_MMA_> :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-02-12
<SiDi> hi
<kwwii> thorwil: hi, get my email?
<thorwil> kwwii: hi! yes, and now you can get mine ;)
<kwwii> ;)
<kwwii> savvas: ping? I was wondering what your opinion was on adding a larger sized pic to the usplash
<kwwii> thorwil: great comments, thanks!
<kwwii> thorwil: I have now put the audience and message slides at front
<thorwil> kwwii: np. before the competition?
<kwwii> thorwil: well, I have added a part to the message slide introducing the whole thing
<thorwil> kwwii: did you consider to point at the specific goals for jaunty as possible themes for the background?
<kwwii> thorwil: not sure what you mean by goals for jaunty
<thorwil> kwwii: afair the main points were fast boot and integration with online services
<kwwii> thorwil: that might not be a bad idea
<kwwii> as well as adding that there will be the notification system stuff constantly putting bubbles on your desktop
<kwwii> for better or worse, it is away
<savvas> kwwii: greater than 800x600? if it's not going to affect boot speed, I would do it :) I think opensuse uses higher resolutions
<savvas> It would be nice to see a percentage of the used resolutions in ubuntu
<kwwii> savvas: we currently only include a 1365x768 pre-scaled ic
<kwwii> pic
<kwwii> savvas: I thought about adding a 1600x1200 and a 1440x900 scaled down to 1200x900
<savvas> yes!! :p
<kwwii> btw, I assume that the pre-scaled pics just get scaled up when shown on a wider monitor
<kwwii> ?
<kwwii> ie, it is not just 16:9
<kwwii> but also 16:10, etc
<_MMA_> kwwii: You talkin' Usplash?
<savvas> oh, I'm not an expert, but did a lot of people ask for these resolutions?
<kwwii> _MMA_: yepp
<kwwii> savvas: nope, people just complain that it gets stretched
<_MMA_> kwwii: It seems they dont scale up. Its more like the monitor just used 800x600 by default. So stretches yes but uses a lower res.
<savvas> kwwii: since you're working on usplash, could you poke a developer for bug #203299 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 203299 in linux "usplash crashed with SIGSEGV in __svgalib_get_perm()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203299
<savvas> it keeps crashing usplash randomly
<kwwii> savvas: our goal is to use plymouth by +1, I haven't gotten much traction with the changes I wanted for jaunty
 * savvas looks
<savvas> plymouth is another software for splash screen?
<_MMA_> yep
<kwwii> yes
<kwwii> RH stuff
<kwwii> uses KMS
<MadsRH> kwwii: Have you (and SlowMac) started the Plymouth work? It sounds great!
<savvas> looks sexy in fedora: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Image:Tours_Fedora10_012_Plymouth_Boot.png :P
<kwwii> MadsRH: there is some work on getting a branch building for jaunty
<Cimi> kwwii, you should update the engine, maybe before march
<kwwii> Cimi: yeah, I was trying to find someone to push that off on
<Cimi> kwwii, wait for 2 weeks
 * kwwii is still working on the usplash
<kwwii> ok, waiting is easy at this point :p
<kwwii> no crack though, eh?
<Cimi> i need to add support for progressbars inside the entry
<Cimi> like safari
<Cimi> http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2986/schermatamb8.png
<kwwii> erm, ok...not sure I get it though
<Cimi> that looks sweet
 * Cimi loves blue
<kwwii> hehe, but has nothing to do with what you just said about "progressbars inside the entry", or?
<Cimi> no :P
<Cimi> that was from lucazade
<kwwii> it is nice though
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-02-13
<MadsRH> #ubuntu-classroom
<MadsRH> ups... sorry :-[
<tretle> cimi
<Cimi> ?
<tretle> any chance you could update the murrine cream theme to use the shiki window border
<Cimi> shiki?
<tretle> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Shiki-Colors?content=86717
<tretle> murrine cream would look even nicer if it had the menu bar blend with the border when using shiki window border
<Cimi> i don't like the dark menubar
<Cimi> i don't like dust too
<_MMA_> Yeah. They're ugly. ;)
<savvas> I like dust with a bright menubar :P
<Cimi> _MMA_, ugly is Â© Cimi
<tretle> wtf is that icon before cimi
<Cimi> copyright
<tretle> have u used shiki, its real nice...  used dust but didnt like it.... shiki is more vibrant
<savvas> Â¿uoÉÄ± ÊÉÉ¥Ê ÊnoqÉ ÊouÊ Ê,uop noÊ uÉÇÉ¯ noÊ
<tretle> wtf
<savvas> tretle: ?
<tretle> is it a bug with jaunty or did you deliberately write that upside down somehow
<savvas> tretle: your eyes must be tired and you're looking upside down :)
<tretle> seriously?
<savvas> neah, just messing with you :P
<tretle> lol, was about to take a screenshot :D
<savvas> tretle: it's unicode
<tretle> ah
<savvas> where was that site.. hm..
<savvas> here we go: http://www.sherv.net/flip.html
<tretle> oh and if anyone decides to give shiki colors a try I would recommend using it with the mist icon theme
<tretle> savvas which one do you use on irc?
<tretle> ÊsÓÊ
<tretle> ah
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-02-14
<_MMA_> 1ooÉ Êou ÇÉ¹,noÊ :Ç1ÊÇÉ¹Ê
<_MMA_> :P
<tretle> hey
<SealV> http://www.picamatic.com/view/2156150_Screenshot-2/
<SealV> give some feedback on the backgrond please
<SealV> http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/9436/screenshot2tw3.png
<SealV> fixed link
<_MMA_> SealV: Wow. I kinda dig that.
<SealV> :3
<SealV> inspired by sand dunes. I will put up a wiki entry for it soon
<_MMA_> SealV: Yeah man. I really like it. SVG?
<SealV> yes...well to a point...Inkscape refuses to give a smooth gradient. so I did that part in the gimp
<SealV> dither support how I crave thee
<_MMA_> SealV: *Please* do the final @ 2560x1600. :)
<SealV> will do. Actually hold on, I will redo it right now (currently at 1920x1440
<_MMA_> SealV: 2560x1600 covers up to 30" monitors. If you do have a SVG, maybe someone can help you with the gradient issue.
<_MMA_> SealV: If this doesn't get picked up for Ubuntu, I'd like to use it in another project I'm doing. A "alternative" desktop set of packages.
<SealV> well the gradient giving me gyp is the main background, the dunes them selves are pure svg
<_MMA_> Still a work in frogress.
<SealV> awesome
<_MMA_> SealV: Well one thing that can be done, is setting the background in the appearences app and your image is just used in front.
<_MMA_> SealV: *VERY* WIP. https://launchpad.net/alternativedesktop
<SealV> hmm...something to consider, I dont think this thing will work with light colors in the back though..
<SealV> I think the alternative thing is a frightfully good idea
<_MMA_> SealV: Would you mind sending me the SVG to tinker with?
<SealV> its messy so be warned.. I will also send you the xcf which is a bit cleaner.
<_MMA_> coryisatm@ubuntu.com
<_MMA_> SealV: The alt-desktop thing is gonna be odd because it has to be installed over top a CLI install. So it won't be for everyone.
<SealV> :o how much customization are you going for?
<SealV> also sent
<_MMA_> SealV: That's still to be determined. It will only have 1 panel. Limited applets. Still gotta work out some details.
<_MMA_> (got the email)
<SealV>  I wish default would switch to one panel, on my lap top the default takes up 38px (19 each) on a 12.1 in screen...
<_MMA_> SealV: Oh you could totally get this SVG working right. Lemmie tinker.
<SealV> have at it good sir, my inscape-devel has been crashing far too much recently
<_MMA_> Really? Been rock-solid here.
<SealV> wat. mine keeps crashing whenever I try to use the triangle out feature of the pencil/bezier... etc...
<SealV> you install from this no? deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/inkscape-nightly/ubuntu intrepid main
<_MMA_> SealV: Yep
<_MMA_> SealV: I'm sending the SVG back. I just resized some things and played with the layout. Maybe you can tweak things a bit more. I'm sure it could use a hand with layering of things.
<SealV> seems to be a bug in inkcape-devel that is upposedly fixed.. hmm.
<SealV> also got it
<_MMA_> k
<SealV> awesome.. now which do you prefer in terms of background color?
<SealV> http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4719/screenshot3os6.png
<SealV> or
<SealV> http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9469/screenshot4jy5.png
<gaminggeek> 4
<gaminggeek> but does it really have to be brown?
<gaminggeek> nobody like the brown
<gaminggeek> *lines
<gaminggeek> *likes
<SealV> what color were you thinking of?
<gaminggeek> anything but brown :P
<gaminggeek> I'm so sick of that ubuntu brand :|
<SealV> =__= not good, not brown basically leaves me with (orange/red/yellow)
<gaminggeek> try a right yellow maybe
<SealV> 4 is more reddish than brown, I prefer it as well
<gaminggeek> not a bright strong yellow
<gaminggeek> but a nice mellow one :)
<_MMA_> SealV: The brown is fine.
<SealV> mma: is that the first link or the second?
<_MMA_> 2nd
<_MMA_> SealV: The red tint feels odd.
<_MMA_> I'd maybe try a tan background with the curves having Ubuntu colors.
<_MMA_> Ill tinker tomorrow. Gotta sleep now.
<SealV> good night, I will email you the updated svg
<SealV> sent
<SealV> also gaming geek: yellow doesnt work/neither does red
<SealV> :o two cimis?
<SealV> is greater tablet support still on for jaunty?
<_MMA_> SealV: I haven't seen anything new lately.
<SealV> :(
<SealV> http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/02/04/hp-releases-netbook-interface-for-ubuntu/
<SealV> damn
<SealV> I need to get this on my laptop
<_MMA_> SealV: You can do it but it's hackish. Look at the forums for the thread.
<SealV> I just found the thread
<SealV> lpia is atom based?
 * _MMA_ shrugs.
<SealV> its not hackish at all. the gtk is awesome
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-02-15
<_MMA_> SealV: No no. Getting it installed. --force-arch and all.
<SealV> eh? I didn't do that I just used the packages from the /universe/lpiabinary
<SealV> *&% why is emerald such a frozen turd? I am glad the compiz people are dropping it
<_MMA_> They are re-writing it IIRC.
<SealV> nah.. clean replace w/ backwards compat called Jasper
<Nece228> Hi
<Nece228> i want to make my arch linux look like ubuntu
<Nece228> but some human icons like sound file icon or appearance icon is missing - instead of human icon it uses gnome icon
<Nece228> i copied ubuntu human from ubuntu intrepid which is with gnome 2.24.1 and i have arch gnome 2.24.3
<Nece228> i tried to copy ubuntu's gnome theme to arch's but it doesnt affect anything
<Nece228> any clues?
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-02-15
<kwwii> good morning all
<thorwil> good morning!
<darkmatter> good morning, and don't spay salt water into your head to clean out infected sinuses unless you have a high pain threshhold
<thorwil> 0.o
<kwwii> darkmatter: that is what pills are for
<kwwii> both the infection and the pain :P
<darkmatter> thorwil: bah. recovering from a sinus infection. decongestants, not surprisingly, do not decongest
<thorwil> yeah, the right sort of pills can even make you think the world would be a happy place!
<kwwii> thorwil: anything that helps ;)
<darkmatter> kwwii: well, for the infection yes, for the pain, not really. go on, ask me how many shots I needed the last time I had a medical procedure done :P
<kwwii> :p
 * darkmatter has a high tolerance to anything with an anesthetic or analgesic property. 
<darkmatter> makes dentists and benzocaine uber fun
<kwwii> hehe, done too much
<kwwii> smoke break, bbiab
<thorwil> iainfarrell: it seems MÃ¡irÃ­n (Fedora art lead) is serious about creating a platform for artwork submissions. to track, compare, discuss and develop things. much more structured than a wiki, reducing overhead and barrier to entry
<thorwil> iainfarrell: might Canonical be interested in joining the development effort?
<iainfarrell> thorwil: That sounds really interesting
<iainfarrell> kwwii and I should get some details from you
<kwwii> thorwil: right, saw that on the list
<iainfarrell> kwwii: Do you know M?ir?n?
<kwwii> iainfarrell: yes
<thorwil> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/02/13/random-idea-for-design-collaboration-tool/
<kwwii> iainfarrell: we've discussed this kind of thing before
<thorwil> iainfarrell: i think her nick is mizmo. easier to type ;)
<kwwii> I think that her idea is not exactly what we need to be mroe procudtive
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> productive
<kwwii> but the basic idea is good
<thorwil> the "basic idea" is still shape-able
<thorwil> i actually started an attempt at creating a google app engine thing that collects information from our flickr artwork pool
<thorwil> to then allow people with accounts to select items (photos) for the next release
<darkmatter> just use gobby
<thorwil> currently it looks like it's too big a task for me, though
<thorwil> darkmatter: you could as well say: just use morse code
<thorwil> iainfarrell: i think it would be a plus to have artwork for at least ubuntu and fedora in one place, making it easy to compare. could help spurn some cooperation/competition
<thorwil> could be separate instances of one codebase, too, though
<kwwii> I imagine that fedora has slightly different needs than we do, but the basis could easily be the same
<thorwil> yeah, things like having categories (icons/themes/wallpapers/poster-flyer/...)
<thorwil> automatic thumbnails (one of the details making the wiki suck)
<kwwii> yepp
<thorwil> nested comments, where each comment is associated with the version it refers to
<iainfarrell> thorwil: Let me talk to Ken about it, sounds like it could be good but best for him to lead it
<thorwil> iainfarrell: ok. i'm sure you will be able to talk him into taking on some additional responsibility and he will love you for it ;)
<kwwii> :p
<thorwil> (not meant to point to another course of action)
<kwwii> vish: any word on a new humanity-icon-theme package?
<vish> kwwii: working on it as we speak :)  adding 16px gpm icons is %*$% I'll request a merge by tomorrow
<vish> soo many icons gpm requires :(
<kwwii> vish: cool, let me know if there is anything I can help with
<kwwii> luckily most of those gpm icons are never used
<vish> yeah almost done , just need to do it again for the dark
<vish> kwwii: the rhythmbox icon is mixed up after the app indicator update , now when rhythmbox starts it use the playing icon instead of the notplaying icon
<darkmatter> gpm is ghey ;o
<vish> kwwii: also , the MeMenu is using icons with what labels? does it use the -panel icons?
<kwwii> vish: yes, indeed
<kwwii> vish: I talked to ted about that, we agreed on -panel for now
<kwwii> vish: not sure of the names, but they should be straight forward
<vish> kwwii: ah cool , we didnt have monochrome icon leak into empathy since it was using its own labels , but that is about to change for 2.30 , where it would also use the user-* labels... we just need to make sure the MeMenu uses the fallbacks
<vish> with the -panel as the main icons
<kwwii> vish: the icons in the MeMenu are the empathy status icons
<kwwii> vish: right, I can talk to ted about that
<darkmatter> hmmm..... I should install amiga 4.1
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> wow, they have made kmail so horribly broken that I will now switch to (eek!) thunderbird
<thorwil> http://www.zacbarton.com/homosapien/customizer/
<zniavre> hello on the artwork wiki website i remember a page with all darkroom bugs, this page still exists?
<thorwil> zniavre: i don't recall deleting it :)
<zacbarton> what do you think thorwil?
<thorwil> zacbarton: it's a really nice demo
<zacbarton> yeah it's shaping up quite nicely
<thorwil> zacbarton: how did you go about implementing iz?
<zacbarton> i coded a metacity parser in php that replicates the meatcity drawing commands but using php
<zacbarton> so the preview actually is a preview
<thorwil> wow. i thought it would be a simpler and hence limited solution
<zacbarton> na ive spent some time on it :-)
<thorwil> zacbarton: i guess more people should know about it
<zacbarton> thorwil: yea im trying to get the word out. kinda hard to do.
<zacbarton> thorwil: i'll keep plugging away
<zacbarton> thorwil: i hope to add different titlebar styles and different sets of buttons at some point
<zacbarton> thorwil: any suggestions?
<thorwil> zacbarton: Dust and New Wave?
<zacbarton> thorwil: so allow editing the dust and new wave themes?
<thorwil> zacbarton: i just meant for having different titlebar styles
<zacbarton> thorwil: right. then that definitely is do'able
<thorwil> zacbarton: what you have here sits in an odd space between theme authoring and the limited Appearance options on the desktop
<zacbarton> thorwil: thats where creating the parse was the right move
<zacbarton> thorwil: yea. when i first started the theme (on gnome-look) everyone wanted things slightly differently, as i would too. so i decided to let them tweak the theme themselves
<thorwil> it's a shame theming is so opaque, setting up a huge barrier in front of customization. it shouldn't be more difficult than changing a document template for writing letters
<zacbarton> thorwil: yea i agree. editing xml to change just the color or rounded borders isnt very good
<zacbarton> thorwil: so hopefully since editing themes isnt easy the tool ive created helps
<zniavre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/NewHumanTesting   yeah found it
<zniavre> this page gives a good ideas of wich apps can work badly
<vish> kwwii: neither the volume applet nor the MeMenu uses the -panel icons :(
<kwwii> vish: yeah, I just noticed that
<kwwii> vish: don't worry, he works for us...it *will* work
<vish> :D
<kwwii> vish: lol
<kwwii> vish: I figured it out
<kwwii> it is no longer using 24 pixel icons
<vish> kwwii: how do i phrase this > http://paste.ubuntu.com/376975/ , for changelog
<vish> yeah
<kwwii> vish: it goes directly in the panel now so it uses 22x22
<vish> apart from that there is huge list of bugs below but that^ is the part I'm not sure how to phrase it to sound "official" ;)
<kwwii> vish: you can add something like "Included different sizes for various icons
<kwwii> "
<kwwii> vish: ie, I don't need to understand everything for simple stuff like that
<vish> ;p
<kwwii> vish: essentially, the changelog is important for me to be able to get your latest stuff and view the changes so that I can include them in ubuntu without being afraid you've b0rked something :P
<kwwii> or included something inappropriate, etc
<vish> and i also figured out the gtk volume icon blurriness , yay and finally included a new volume icon ;)
<kwwii> vish: killer ;)
<vish> gtk need a file named .png ... so i added a symlink named volume-*.png to a svg and it is solved :D
<vish> crappy gtk ;p
<kwwii> vish: I am going to head back to my hotel in about half an hour. When you're happy with your changes let know and I will get it uploaded asap
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> vish: funny how gtk is with that stuff, it reads the image header to determine the type but then hardcodes file name extensions
<vish> argh! lp is killing me :/
<vish> ah! anyone know what I'm doing wrong >  bzr push lp:~vish.../ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release/new
<vish> bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:~vish.../ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release/new": No such project: ubuntu-art-pkg
<vish> kwwii: around^ ?
<vish> bah , nvm , i gonna use humanity as root  :s
<zniavre> good evening
<zniavre> the new indicator "thing" is a part of gnome or ubuntu ?
<vish> zniavre: huh? dint understand... canonical is doing it, if that was the question :)
<zniavre> sorry my bad english (im too old to improve it now , and you can't hear my accent hopefully)
<vish> zniavre: actually , its not your fault English is the bad one ;)
<vish> zniavre: is there any way to change the treeview -/+ to the old arrow?
<vish> rather gtkexpander
<zniavre> i do not know. using clearlooks style ?
<vish> ah right..
<vish> the new murrine change doesnt look good :/
<zniavre> the new indicator stuff change does not look good too
<zniavre> i do not like it at all
<zniavre> there is no alternatives
<vish> zniavre: heh , i use a vertical panel and it sucks even worse :/  ... all the icons[except one] are out of the screen
<zniavre> the "stuff" display horizontal even the panel is vertical ?
<vish> yeah :/
<vish> i havent restarted my session[after indicator-sound] just to prevent volume applet getting out of the screen
<vish> indicator-sound update*
<zniavre> im quite angry they took out the old volume applet
<zniavre> it was my request > where to complain about that ?
<vish> zniavre: if you remove the indicator applet  the old volume applet will return
<zniavre> no
<vish> but you will also loose the the messaging menu
<zniavre> im not social personn
<zniavre> i do not use empathy/evolution/thunderbird/facebook
<vish> zniavre: then you can remove the indicator applet , it is supposed to fallback to old notification area icons/applet , if it doesnt it is a bug
<zniavre> a ok
<zniavre> opening launchapd bug right now
<vish> zniavre: have you restarted session after removing the indicator applet?
<zniavre> i will try right now too 2sec
<zniavre> so i got a bug
<vish> yeah :/
<zniavre> gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel
<zniavre> oops sorry
<zniavre> vish,  are you sure about that ? (old volume-controler coming if i delete he indicator-applet) ?
<vish> zniavre: that was what i was told... :) i can check again if you like
<vish> zniavre: filed the bug?
<zniavre> not yet im first asking question
<zniavre> i do not know why i hav the feeling reporting a bug is much longer/complicated tahn before , im right ?
<vish> zniavre: just asked  , if it doesnt return it is a bug
<zniavre> filing a bug is a real pain now ...
<kwwii> vish: hey
<kwwii> vish: just saw your merge request, I'll get it done and uploaded asap
<kwwii> thanks ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-02-16
<vish> am i the only one who sees something shooting out of the elephants ass!  >  http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_baer/4354379009/     /me wonders why kwwii really liked it ;p
<darkmatter> vish: nah. that elephant looks burrito powered :P
<vish> exactly!
<darkmatter> afterburner!
<kwwii> vish, darkmatter: hehe, I saw the pic and thought I need to go to a special place
<darkmatter> lol
<kwwii> vish: we'll need to look into how well the coloured icons work in the panel
<kwwii> vish: I'm busy today, but once this is tested a bit we can work on improving things as needed
<kwwii> vish: I assigned the bug to you, but I'll help fix it ;)
<vish> kwwii: yeah , i expected that bug ;)
<kwwii> vish: cool, I think we'll test it a bit and see chat comes of the discussion
<vish> i'm testing a few versions of that icon , rather than waiting and using it later , i felt having a bug would help push an upload later ;p
<kwwii> yes, indeed
<dashua> kwwii, bzr branch lp:~dashua/human-theme/HumanLoginMurrine
<dashua> Looks pretty sexxy.  Let me know what you think?
<kwwii> dashua: thanks, I'll check it out
<dashua> Code needs some cleansing, but all is working.
<dashua> Cool
<vish> kwwii: a heads up for the battery-fully-charged icon too , for now i'v just used a hue shift for the green , it seems to be able grab more attention for the battery , for the indicator-messages though i wasnt sure
<kwwii> vish: yeah, I was worried about how the green and red will show up on the panel
<kwwii> vish: we might need to add a very slight outer line or such
<vish> kwwii: the red i havent changed anything , its the same from karmic
<kwwii> vish: right, and I think it needs tweaking ;)
<vish> :)
<kwwii> vish: one thing I noticed is that it is impossible to copy the files in Humanity to another dir in the terminal because it complains about the symlinks being too deep
<vish> kwwii: not sure what you mean?
<kwwii> vish: we need to be carefull that the symlinks are logically used... I think it will also make the theme slower to load
<kwwii> well, normall you have one source file and a bunch of symlinks pointing to it
<kwwii> but now, we have one source file and a couple of symlinks pointint to it, and then other symlinks pointing to those symlinks
<vish> kwwii: ah , right  , thats been a problem for some time.. for now I'v corrected a few such things , gpm for example..
<vish> there are a lot more :(
<kwwii> Error opening file '/home/kwwii/source/humanity-icon-theme-0.4.1ubuntu6~ppa2/Humanity/apps/24/menu-editor.svg': Too many levels of symbolic links
<kwwii> that is the error I get
<kwwii> but anyway
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/42860/screenshot_003_S7pPap.png
<dashua> Roigh screen
<dashua> Rough*
<vish> kwwii: yeah ,  symlinks pointing to other symlinks are actually new specific icons which need to be done.. which would replace the symlink.. but yeah , thats a mess :)
<kwwii> vish: indeed ;)
<tgpraveen12> vish: is it intentional to have new icons for openoffice files
<vish> tgpraveen12: what?
<vish> tgpraveen12: hmm that sounded rude.. rather .. huh? :)
<tgpraveen12> after the update all my .doc and .ppt files etc have different kind of icons
<tgpraveen12> wasnt being rude
<tgpraveen12> sorry if it sounded that way
<vish> tgpraveen12: nah , my response seemed to sound rude ;)
<tgpraveen12> ;-)
<vish> tgpraveen12: yes , more MIME icons have been added
<vish> tgpraveen12: do you have a screenshot of the messaging menu?
<vish> tgpraveen12: is is blurry? i'm not sure if it uses a 16px or 22px icon
<tgpraveen12> me menu?
<tgpraveen12> one sec i will do it
<tgpraveen12> http://bayimg.com/EakPEAACh
<tgpraveen12> vish: ^^
<vish> k..
<vish> thanks
<zniavre_> good evening
<zniavre_> what is the name of the red underlined zone please? > http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4349/capture1cc.png
<zniavre_> is it themeable ?
<zniavre_> i can't find the name with eXperience
<troy_s> zniavre_: I strongly suspect that uses 'selected' tone.
<zniavre> troy_s,  could you please repeat my xchat crashed unfortunatly ?
<troy_s> zniavre: I am not entirely sure you can theme that region, as it isn't horribly clear what region it is. I'd strongly suspect it is using the selected tone for the colour.
<zniavre> ok
<troy_s> vish: How are things cooking for you?
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-02-17
<vish> troy_s: heya... been bushy.. pixel-pushing humanity for lucid release :D
<vish> busy*
 * darkmatter pushes pixels up vish... nm ;p
<vish> ;)
<vish> hmm , this looks wrong for so many reasons >  http://old.nabble.com/file/p27613841/humanity2.png , can be mistaken for several body parts ;p
<troy_s> vish: That's the upside of working with workshopping.
<troy_s> vish: You avoid the 'OMFG THAT'S A PENIS!!!'
<troy_s> vish: At any rate, have things settled in on the cover a bit?
<vish> troy_s: yup , finally! after whining a lot ... a cover without the animal is acceptable ;)
<troy_s> vish: That's positive. How's the typeface selection going?
<troy_s> vish: Better I hope?
<vish> thorwil is a happier guy nowadays and new directions are acceptable too... typeface is goin on too
<troy_s> vish: So progress is being made. That's positive.
<troy_s> vish: Hopefully everyone is feeling more on the same page and that the thing is evolving in a positive manner.
<vish>  yeah.. :)
<kwwii> morning everyone
<thorwil> http://durian.blender.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/final-cartoon-team-durian-colors-all.jpg
 * kwwii heads out to the airport
<zniavre> good evening
<zniavre> i want to tupdate my icon set with new trash icon but it does not appreas into nautilus sidepanel
<zniavre> update*
<zniavre> (sorry for typos )
<kwwii> hey kids
 * kwwii returns from London
<kwwii> and spams the list
<dashua> Hey kwwii
<troy_s> kwwii: Serious question, wtf is up with icons for mimetypes. _Dead_ serious.
<troy_s> kwwii: Isn't that sort of dare I say - retro as a Greek column?
<troy_s> kwwii: Would it not make more sense to simply adopt and polish the already existing thumbnailers available?
<kwwii> troy_s: erm, not sure exactly what you mean
<troy_s> kwwii: Icons are a misery of yesterday, and most certainly a dead trend. They aren't exactly illuminating to just about anyone.
<troy_s> kwwii: Well... it's like suggesting we should have an icon that looks like xxx for a jpg.
<troy_s> kwwii: When the real question should be "Why the hell in 2010 are we using a singular icon to represent any sort of data?"
<troy_s> kwwii: Follow me?
<kwwii> troy_s: to some extent you can't simply change *everything* at once (without a really good plan)
<troy_s> kwwii: I have to say, even a precursory examination of the possible thumbnailers (Ubuntu Forums)
<troy_s> kwwii: I don't think that's 'everything'
<troy_s> kwwii: The counter view is borderline ludditedom
<kwwii> troy_s: in that sense, I do agree that icons and the current desktop metaphor is fscked
<troy_s> kwwii: At one point, jpgs were thumbnailed.
<kwwii> but I think you'll see that change in the future
<troy_s> kwwii: PDFs are (?)
<kwwii> troy_s: well, look at how nautilus deals with previews
<kwwii> it is shit
<troy_s> kwwii: Raw should be there already (I think it is if you install gnome-raw-thumbnailers)
<troy_s> kwwii: Point is - all of the crap is already there.
<kwwii> the previews are these large ugly icons and the icons are much smaller...all in neat rows
<troy_s> kwwii: Whatever the case, it eliminates the whole icon bruhaha
<troy_s> kwwii: And more importantly, pushes one step further down the road of meaningful representational data.
<troy_s> kwwii: As in 'We are already doing it'
<troy_s> kwwii: It just seems that for some reason, we haven't implemented the bloody OpenOffice thumbnailer that is out there already.
<troy_s> kwwii: (PDF is already there right?)
<kwwii> troy_s: to be honest, kde does it much better
<kwwii> :p
<troy_s> kwwii: And KDE is not well done either.
<troy_s> kwwii: So let's be fair to fair.
<troy_s> kwwii: But that doesn't help Ubuntu _now_ of course.
<troy_s> kwwii: Which is the point - the work is already done.
<troy_s> kwwii: (And I just tested, PDF is already thumbnailed on my install)
<kwwii> no, indeed but in some technical areas it is simply a bit more advanced (in one way or another due to the fact that their toolkit is developed by a company)
<troy_s> kwwii: (ODT is _not_)
<kwwii> sure
<troy_s> kwwii: Moot point if it all ends up looking like asstastic rigid Libretypical.
<troy_s> kwwii: Short question: Why the hell isn't Ubuntu using the OpenOffice thumbnailer.
<troy_s> kwwii: How much coverage (legit question) is there in thumbnailers now? Probably what - 60-75%?
<kwwii> troy_s: to be honest, I have no idea
<troy_s> kwwii: (Leaves room for improvement of course - I seem to remember someone on the forums having done a thumbnailer for mp3/ogg/flac music tracks that showed an albumcover and a glyph or something.)
<kwwii> it's almost 1am here, I got back from London a couple of hours ago and I've had two vodka tonic's with lime
<troy_s> kwwii: Might be a better question than watching 10 people flounder with what a fricking icon should look like (and probably bringing about a bunch of moot points)
<kwwii> :p
<troy_s> kwwii: Lol.
<troy_s> kwwii: Just throwing it out. Seems like a dog chasing it's tail.
<troy_s> kwwii: And wasting time while doing it.
<kwwii> troy_s: send me an email..I definitely won't remember this in details tomorrow
<kwwii> you might have a very good point ;)
<troy_s> kwwii: Do I dare click this fricking button? DO I?
<kwwii> troy_s: I think that one could create an design which includes pretty much any symbol for any given thing and as long as the *entire* concept is done correctly from start the user would still figure it out
<troy_s> kwwii: Bah. You just barfed up classic freetard design ethic.
<kwwii> when I moved from MS to Mac it was hard
<troy_s> kwwii: Who is the user :)
<troy_s> kwwii: Exactly.
<kwwii> well, not that extreme, but you get the point
<troy_s> Point is, no matter WHAT the decision, someone somewhere is going to be learning.
<kwwii> yes, true
<troy_s> kwwii: All those fools chatting about intuitive are well... uh... they should probably go study something for a while.
<kwwii> if you didn't have to learn it wouldn't be a different system
<troy_s> kwwii: Exactly.
<troy_s> kwwii: It's difference. If it weren't, it'd be the same.
<troy_s> kwwii: But the issue with the fricking icons that pops up over and over is that it's forest through trees.
<kwwii> troy_s: true, but I think you'll see that change in the future
<troy_s> kwwii: Lol. How long have I been hearing that?
<kwwii> wow, the first time I can say that and really mean it with intent ;)
<troy_s> kwwii: You are starting to sound like Microsoft over there.
<kwwii> troy_s: ask me in 6 months that same question and we'll have an honest talk
<troy_s> kwwii: Ugh. If I remember.
<kwwii> troy_s: honestly, the design team is just now jelling, so to speak
<troy_s> kwwii: It's ethic.
<troy_s> kwwii: Where there is none.
<kwwii> I think lucid +1 is going to be pretty cool
<troy_s> kwwii: With the memenu leading the way?
<kwwii> we've already started long term planning
<troy_s> lol
<kwwii> hehe, well
<troy_s> kwwii: _exactly_
<kwwii> that is lucid
<troy_s> kwwii: *ahem*.
<kwwii> give us a chance to get up to speed
<troy_s> kwwii: How much more chance before someone somewhere calls the tripe? It's been tripe all along?
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-02-18
<kwwii> you cannot form a large group of very talented people from different fields and expect something in months
<troy_s> kwwii: I think I'm the guy that would probably have been saying that from the start no? You are preaching to the choir.
<kwwii> troy_s: you can see that as a positive factor...anything you do good is a break from the past :p
<troy_s> kwwii: But Microsoft, with limitless money and bottomless ability to recruit is still Microsoft.
<troy_s> kwwii: Which is why I still think this is a question of culture.
<troy_s> kwwii: In the _meantime_... something that is a baby step in the right direction (or at least overarching apparent trending I could probably argue) is representational data.
<troy_s> kwwii: You could probably push that overnight.
<troy_s> kwwii: And no one would really notice
<troy_s> kwwii: And it solves a 'problem' without doing any work.
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> kwwii: Not to mention that a mailing list with 22(!!!) replies on a fricking Word document is ... what's the word... WTF.
<kwwii> :)
<troy_s> kwwii: Agree?
<kwwii> yes. agreed
<kwwii> I think that once the canonical design team shows their strengths the community might change a bit
<troy_s> kwwii: Lol... I actually subscribed to the list again just to rant on that ridiculous thread but alas, I can't even reply to the fricking thread.
<troy_s> kwwii: The memenu is the rallying cry. It shall be the beginning of something huge.
<troy_s> kwwii: fskcing brutal.
<troy_s> kwwii: Voldemort?
<kwwii> troy_s: I think that once all the indicator menus are implemented, tested and such things will make more sense
<kwwii> naturally, there is a lot to change
<kwwii> but it will evolve and there is a plan for that
<troy_s> kwwii: How about coming up with SOME aesthetic SOMEWHERE that is appealing to SOMEONE?
<troy_s> kwwii: Does no one on that entire team know about the aesthetic usability effect?
<troy_s> kwwii: You must just be sitting there squirming.
<kwwii> troy_s: to be honest, I wish I could talk about some of the ideas we've discussed but I imagine I would lose my job *really* quickly
<troy_s> kwwii: Yes I know. Why do you think I have _never_ pushed you on anything?
<kwwii> again, the team is just now really gettig into high gear
<troy_s> kwwii: Especially in a logged channel.
<troy_s> kwwii: But let's face it, no one was talking about design around these parts until someone saw an economic upside.
<kwwii> troy_s: lol, give it 6 months
<troy_s> kwwii: No one mentionned art (and in fact, if you look closely, it's still tough to spot an artist / designer)
<troy_s> kwwii: I hope D is given a large say in that gongshow of webpresence.
<troy_s> kwwii: But time will tell. (Hell, how many others have his cred there?)
<troy_s> kwwii: Side note, _WTF_ happened to Julian?
<kwwii> lol
<troy_s> kwwii: It is water way under the bridge now.
<troy_s> kwwii: WAY
<kwwii> I really liked Julian
<troy_s> kwwii: Gee... because maybe he seemed to show that he had a shred of a clue and credibility?
<kwwii> http://www.flickr.com/photos/kwwii/3331322429/
<troy_s> kwwii: I don't imagine that anyone that has a shred of credibility turns into a patsy there.
<kwwii> I think overall it was the case of the right person at the wrong time
<troy_s> kwwii: Wow. Mirco's damn short.
<troy_s> kwwii: LOL
<troy_s> kwwii: That looks like Castro behind Mark there. When are those from?
<kwwii> Ivanka (who he hired), has kinda taken over the roll but in her own amazing way
<kwwii> she is really killer
<kwwii> as a team, we are much more effective because of Ivanka
<troy_s> kwwii: The _glaring_ hole is that there isn't any visual design going on. Anyone that has read the article knows full well that, like it or not, the aesthetic usability effect is _real_ and it in fact is more important than the _actual_ usability.
<kwwii> troy_s: the developer sprint in Berlin a year and two weeks ago
<troy_s> kwwii: So the visual design component is still a gongshow.
<troy_s> kwwii: Too bad. I quite thought that Julian's approach to the workspace reenvisioning etc was _spot_ on.
<troy_s> kwwii: And I'm sure that was an abortion when it came to implementation.
<kwwii> troy_s: I understand what you're saying and why but I think you should give us a few months time to get things rolling
<kwwii> I don't think that anything he did has died
<kwwii> and with that, I will head off to bed
<troy_s> kwwii: Is D's reach going to extend into the desktop?
<troy_s> kwwii: Nacht.
<kwwii> troy_s: dom is amazing and although his work on the desktop is very limited there are influences of his work...we are approaching this holistically
<kwwii> troy_s: imagine all the touching points in really getting it right and then think about how much time and effort that would *really* be
<troy_s> kwwii: I am not saying for a SECOND that any of this shit is simple or easy etc.
<troy_s> kwwii: You full well know that.
<kwwii> it might be hard for the community to understand how things work in general and even harder for those in the know because they expect something and see no results
<troy_s> kwwii: Part of it, in fact, should be _eliminating_ touchpoints that are a gongshow.
<troy_s> (good luck selling that one)
<kwwii> in answer to that I say, wait it out...we're coming ;)
<troy_s> kwwii: Well c'mon, it isn't like there is even a remote shred of a body of work or any sense of building.
<troy_s> kwwii: So the community is entirely fair to be evaluating things in that light.
<kwwii> troy_s: for any given release there are certain things you can improve and some you simply cannot, that does not mean that you don't have a master plan for the full future of all media
<troy_s> kwwii: C'mon.
<kwwii> troy_s: yes, there is little for anyone to feel or see until now
<troy_s> kwwii: We could _just_ look at the wallpaper as symptomatic.
<troy_s> kwwii: (And yes, I'm aware of that bearfight behind the doors)
<troy_s> kwwii: Anyways, get some sleep
<kwwii> troy_s: hey, brown is brown...it's cool
<kwwii> :P
<troy_s> kwwii: Brown is fine
<troy_s> kwwii: Shit ability isn't.
<kwwii> troy_s: just kidding
<troy_s> kwwii: Hell... I'd dare say that if you dropped James White in there he'd say the same thing about brown.
<troy_s> kwwii: Funniest part is that after all this time, brown's deadly chic right now.
<troy_s> kwwii: But we still pooch it.
<troy_s> kwwii: Now sleep.
<kwwii> I actually included a picture of James Brown in jail in a presentation to Mark about new theme ideas
<troy_s> kwwii: WHITE. lol
<troy_s> kwwii: James WHITE. LOL
<troy_s> lmao
<troy_s> kwwii: Water flows down. You are in a desert.
<kwwii> lol
<troy_s> kwwii: Fertile ground not.
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> how is it that I have never heard of James White?
<kwwii> other than the SF author
<troy_s> kwwii: He's a pretty hot commodity these days.
<troy_s> kwwii: And talented as hell.
<kwwii> troy_s: seen http://blog.chaotic.co.uk/
<troy_s> kwwii: btdtgtts
<kwwii> ?
<troy_s> kwwii: been there done that
<troy_s> blah blah
<troy_s> kwwii: Yes.
<troy_s> kwwii: I don't know if the solution is fanbois.
<troy_s> kwwii: Of that ilk. With little passion or care.
<troy_s> kwwii: Rather like Apple hiring a bunch of Microsoft fanbois.
<troy_s> kwwii: Just two pennies, but it's weka.
<troy_s> weak even
<troy_s> kwwii: (Dare say that you'd probably agree on that front.)
<kwwii> I dare say, we might just impress you yet ;-)
<troy_s> kwwii: It isn't me you need to worry about. I'm just some dipsh*t.
<kwwii> :P
<troy_s> kwwii: Anyways, I don't think that data supports 'Yay'. lol. D for certain.
<troy_s> kwwii: But that, not so much.
<kwwii> good morning
<iainfarrell> kwwii: morning :)
<kwwii> iainfarrell: hey
<zniavre> good morning
<zniavre> there is somewhere nautilus 2.29 rgba support ppa's ?
 * darkmatter hands kwwii a quadruple shot of espresso. gmornin', and get to work! ;p
<thorwil> morning!
<kwwii> darkmatter: hehe
<kwwii> zniavre: not that I know of
<kwwii> zniavre: we started doing rgba code in gtk itself but there were some major X errrors in a some apps so we've postponed that work
<kwwii> hi thorwil, how's things?
<thorwil> kwwii: hating myself for getting involved in the manual project despite having enough on the list :)
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> thorwil: I imagine you could spend a lot of time on that
<thorwil> font selection alone eats hours
<kwwii> I can just imagine the discussions about layout and such are lots of fun
<thorwil> there is no discussion on layout :)
<kwwii> not yet, you eman
<kwwii> mean
<thorwil> we have a latex wizard and it seems like i can leave it to him
<thorwil> the fun so far involved people thinking having a lynx on the title page would be a must
<thorwil> thankfully i could convince the leader it's not :)
<kwwii> thorwil: hehe, I used to do a *lot* of work with TeX (making the SuSE books)
<kwwii> you have to know what your are doing to get the layout right
<thorwil> i stopped using latex when being very happy with it turned into being fucking frustrated, because i could not even start to do layout invloving pictures with it
 * thorwil -> lunch
<kwwii> ;)
 * vish hehe was happy when thorwil became the manual design-team leader ;p  
 * vish back into woodwork
 * darkmatter is decidedly unhappy after his walk
<thorwil> tr
<Equiet> Hi. http://stelmaria.equiet.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/_r1_c1.png
<Equiet> It's my mockup for http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/02/13/random-idea-for-design-collaboration-tool/ .
<Equiet> The upper half is quite done.
<kwwii> Equiet: intersting
<Equiet> (Any feedback would be appreciated.)
<zleap> hi Merula
<Merula> hi :$
<zleap> hi
<Merula> it's.. quiet
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> mat_t, can you help Merula
<Merula> can anyone? :/
<zleap> lol
<Merula> is anyone... here?
<Merula> except us, zleap
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> the wonders of Free software, this,
 * vish surprised at activity here ;)
<Merula> oooh someone else
<zleap> hi vish
<zleap> can you help Merula please
<vish> hi..
<zleap> hi
<vish> Merula: what's up?
<Merula> care to explain, zleap? :/
<Merula> else i'll make an eejit outta myself :P
<zleap> ok Merula wants to look in to helping with the art project
<vish> Merula: to start you can have a look at the wiki > http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork and some of the projects you can get involved in are listed there
<Merula> but i';ve never done any of this stuff before :(
<Merula> hence why i need help
<vish> Merula: not sure i understand?  what are your interests ?  you are looking to be involved in which aspect?
<Merula> im an expressive artist. i draw and paint and computer manipulate.
<zleap> vish, i suggested looking here, as Merula said she wasnt a programmer or technical in that way
<vish> Merula: do you have an online portfolio ?
<Merula> erm... unless you include 12/13 yr old drawings then not at the moment :/
<Merula> i can set one up?
<vish> it not a problem , just wanted to have an insight :)
<vish> its*
<zleap> Merula, that sounds a good idea anyway
<Merula> http://www.youtube.com/jennie140695  < = they're my old drawings on videos
<vish> Merula: the official artwork is usually done and decided by the canonical design team , the community usually helps in the artwork as and when required
<Merula> ok
<zleap> so right now things are quiet, or is there a time of day when there is more activity
<thorwil> it's pretty random
<thorwil> but what do you expect?
<zleap> well #ubuntu-uk is qutie busy
<thorwil> *talking* about artwork all day? ;)
<Merula> yes
<zleap> so some channels have a peek times of activity
<vish> ;)
<vish> zleap: well , there is not much to keep talking about art all day ;)  ... the activity here is _very_ low
<zleap> ok
<Merula> what's the gender spread like? male dominated? (as per usual X_X)
<vish> well its the web... gender doesnt really matter ;)
<vish> Merula: it isnt clear what help you are looking for...
<Merula> it was all zleap's idea *pokes*
<zleap> hi
<Merula> he said i could get more involved here
<vish> Merula: the Canonical design team lead is a woman ... ;)
<thorwil> troy_s: interesting showcase regarding design competitions: http://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/european_organic_euro-leaf.php
<zleap> well i suggested irc as we were alrady in irc anyway
<troy_s> thorwil: Greets brother. How you doing?
<zleap> but you contribute according to what skills you have
<Merula> vish: ok then
<thorwil> troy_s: things move slowly :)
<troy_s> Look at the 'End Justify Means' poll... LOL
<vish> Merula: currently there is design work going on for the Ubuntu manual.. you can work on that if you are interested
<Merula> what sort of design?
<troy_s> Merula: You have a portfolio?
<Merula> troy_s: no, i dont know how
<troy_s> Merula: Hrm. What does that mean exactly? You don't know how to put samples of work up online?
<Merula> erm, i;ve never done design before. like i said, i do expressive art. like cartoons and paintings...
<Merula> that doesn't mean i can't do design
<zleap> Merula, the manual is online,  i guess things like taking screen shots of applications
<vish> Merula: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Artwork
<troy_s> Merula: The point is though, everyone is largely strangers here. That means it is _extremely_ difficult to evaluate where someone would fit in with a given project.
<zleap> Merula, to bring you upto speed, this project is to include a decent manual for users  in the next release 10.04
<Merula> i don't think any of this is suited to me at all :/
<Merula> sorry for the waste of time, guys
<troy_s> LOL
<troy_s> And I guess that is where it lays.
<vish> troy_s: ;)  why do you intimidate ;p
<troy_s> vish: I don't think that was intimidation.
<vish> just kidding ;)
<troy_s> vish: But enough already with the people that drop in for five minutes and want to do crap.
<vish> troy_s: yeah , but Merula seemed to fit for the anime stuff ..
<vish> zleap: there is the > http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/anime-boston-well-on-our-way/
<troy_s> vish: How much effort does it take to push a project along?
<troy_s> vish: And then wonder how long someone would last in a project of any depth if you aren't willing to spend what - five minutes chatting in IRC?
<vish> troy_s: yeah , it was disappointing at the quit speed the user left :(
<zleap> so what does the anime project involve
<zleap> i havre posted that link to the other channel
<vish> zleap: i'm not sure either , you can ask Merula to comment on the blog...
<zleap> what is the average age here
<zleap> ok will ask
<thorwil> 34.56
<vish> lol!
<troy_s> I'm pretty sure that kwwii and I drag the average age up into the 'in dog years we are dead' zone.
<Equiet> <Equiet> Hi. http://stelmaria.equiet.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/_r1_c1.png // Have seen?
<zleap> so what is this anime event then
<zleap> what needs doing from a drawing / artistic viewpoint
<vish> Equiet: whats the cross and the check mark for?
<Equiet> vish: That means approved, rejected and pending.
<vish> ah..
<Equiet> I was too lazy to find icons for that.
<vish> Equiet: where does one comment?
<thorwil> Equiet: talked with mizmo?
<Equiet> vish: It's not done yet.
<vish> ah..
<Equiet> Look only at upper half.
<Equiet> thorwil: No.
<Equiet> Who is mizmo?
<vish> Equiet: mizmo is mairin
<Equiet> Ah...
<vish> Equiet: for a site which is to display the artwork , a bigger would be more ideal , IMO  ..
<zleap> http://divajutta.com/doctormo/ubunchu/ looks more useful
<troy_s> zleap: I believe that Martin (that site) commissioned a few drawings at a local comicon.
<troy_s> zleap: They should be somewhere on that blog.
<zleap> ok
<Equiet> vish: What to be bigger?
<zleap> so they pay people or just get contributions
<vish> Equiet: from your mockup , the thumbnail size at the top part is small... it would be better if it was bigger thumbnail... better perspective
<troy_s> zleap: He paid the artists.
<zleap> ah
<troy_s> zleap: That said, the three of them are also very skilled.
<zleap> so this project is still active then
<troy_s> zleap: He is unlikely to pay anyone unless he would deem them in line with the view.
<zleap> k
<troy_s> zleap: No clue. But if you look at the samples, you will see that at least one is of solid quality.
<troy_s> zleap: The other is questionable, and that said, I would be willing to say that it is probably 1000% better than what the community might be able to create.
<troy_s> zleap: I'd like to think I was wrong, but I'd say it is a safe bet.
<zleap> ok i have suggested to merula she gets in touch with the project directly
<Equiet> Do you like http://stelmaria.equiet.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/abstractive_r1_c1.jpg ? Isn't it too simple?
<yemanja> for me it's beautiful :)
<troy_s> zleap: Make sure that she actually has some work up.
<yemanja> wish software you use to do it Equiet ?
<Equiet> Adobe Fireworks CS4.
<thorwil> Equiet: do you read abduzeedo?
<troy_s> zleap: It is like showing up in a kernel channel and saying that you don't have any sample code etc up.
<zleap> ok
<Equiet> thorwil: Yes, I do.
<thorwil> Equiet: that picture screams abduzeedo and not in a good way
<zleap> ok i have offered to host a few files
<Equiet> I used a font from there...
<zleap> so we need to contact martin right
<troy_s> zleap: And please explain to here that if she took offense to my comment, I apologies - that wasn't the intention.
<troy_s> zleap: Although I suspect she just felt over her head with the manual link etc.
<troy_s> zleap: I'd say it is pretty simple. Gather up some work, montage it in imagemagick or create a simple contact sheet of reasonable size, and get it to Martin.
<troy_s> zleap: That's a pretty simple path.
<troy_s> zleap: The work will likely speak for itself.
<troy_s> zleap: (In either direction.)
<zleap> ok
<zleap> chat later
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-02-19
<thorwil> apple botched the shiny floor effect (via photoshopdisasters): http://images.apple.com/iphone/iphone-3gs/images/app-store-download-20090608.jpg
<Equiet> http://stelmaria.equiet.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/designhub2.png
<FLOZz> hello _o/
<Equiet> Hi.
<thorwil> lol, armored battle lynx and darth koala. who thinks of such silly stuff ;p
<thorwil> Equiet: there should be no need for "Home", the site name in the top right can take on that role
<thorwil> "Browse projects" is odd. strange place
<thorwil> Equiet: i think the top section should be reserved for the site name/logo, login/account and search to go with what is somewhat common these days.
<thorwil> Equiet: next area should answer the question: where am i?
<thorwil> i would suggest using breadcrumbs, but on a site like this, it could be more about tags
<Equiet> Hm? Breadcrumb to what?
<thorwil> Equiet: e.g. Fedora/Wallpapers/13/BlueVelvet
<thorwil> Equiet: but what i was just about to explain: it could be Fedora/13/Wallpapers, or Wallpapers/Fedora/13 ...
<thorwil> so it should probably be more like a query and not imply a hierarchy so much
<thorwil> such a navigation section could have fields for Distribution, Distribution Version, Type (wallpaper, gtk-theme, icon-theme, ...), Author ...
<Equiet> F5.
<thorwil> better. that "in" is a small but important detail
<Equiet> F5.
<thorwil> Equiet: i'd flip Search and Logged_in. search in top right is very common
<thorwil> Equiet: the shadow below the image areas is not satisfying. if you look at the top and side edges, it looks like the area is almost flat, just a tiny bit raised from the ground
<thorwil> Equiet: if you then look at the bottom edge, it seems that either the image or the background would have to bend for such a shadow
 * thorwil -> coffee
<Equiet> I think it looks better when searchbox is on left side. (F5)
 * Equiet TV.
<zniavre> hello what is the name of the new engines for gtk-engines-pixmap please ?
<zniavre> it seems lucid missing it
<zniavre> is that pixbuf ?
<zniavre> pfff forget it.... shame on me
<zniavre> :o)
<omega425> this may not b the right way of using a chat room but let me try it any way have a tv made by proveiw and the company has  gone out of business I need a toggle switch for pwr supply on model #mh422hub so thx  insight
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-02-20
<]grimm[> Is there a changelog available for what's new in Dust 0.5?
<]grimm[> It seems like there are quite a few changes from the 0.4.x series, but I also had some difficulty applying the theme, so I was curious as to which changes I'm seeing are by design
<zniavre_> good afternoon
<darkmatter> o/
<FLOZz> _o/ zniavre_
<vish> whaaaaaat > http://anotherubuntu.blogspot.com/2010/02/no-human-theme-in-ubuntu-1004.html
<vish> i guess no magic from kwwii  ?  :(
<darkmatter> vish: I've said it once and I've said it a thousand times. shuttlebucks shouldn't be allowed anywhere near anything remotely resembling a pixel ;
<vish> darkmatter: lol ;)     i always had a weird doubt... was his named changed to "shuttle"worth after he went to space or ...
<darkmatter> lol
<vish> did he just go to space since his name was "shuttle"worth ;p
<zniavre_> :o)
<zniavre_> this new theme will look as this strange website to be logged into all canonical services ?
<zniavre_> i can't re-find the page damned me ...
<mrmcq2u> hmmm... seems to be allot of hubabub bub bub about a new theme for lucid
<zniavre_> let's wait and see
<mrmcq2u> indeed
<zniavre_> :o)
<mrmcq2u> http://www.flickr.com/photos/28220431@N07/3882949515/in/pool-ubuntu-artwork - awesome wallpaper proposal on the lucid group :)
<dashua> zniavre_, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/43427/screenshot_009_qaF1wf.png
<dashua> Finally think I got a nice login theme.  Probably a futile effort now, but check it out if you get some time :)
<zniavre> dashua it looks quite good
<lucazade> hi! any idea on new lucid theme?
<Equiet> lucazade: Hi. The graphic look do you mean?
<lucazade> yes, the new gtk theme announced
<Equiet> I guess nobody knows.
<lucazade> :)
<kwwii> who announced a gtk theme?
<kwwii> all we announced was that we want to refresh the community themes
<lucazade> mark himself
<kwwii> mark only said that we would have a new metacity theme
<lucazade> ah ok
<lucazade> my fault
<kwwii> I just try to avoid rumours when I can ;)
<lucazade> thanks for clarification
<kwwii> np
<vish> kwwii: http://anotherubuntu.blogspot.com/2010/02/no-human-theme-in-ubuntu-1004.html  so this is only about the metacity? phew :D
<kwwii> vish: let me watch that before I answer
<dashua> zniavre, Like it?
<dashua> Not a bad theme by itself actually.  I'm for dark themes but that is a little too rich.
<dashua> Great for login though.
<kwwii> vish: erm, yeah...we'll see what comes of that
<kwwii> I am quite surprised to hear that myself
<vish> :(
<bahe> i'm still waiting for a good theme
<bahe> i don't like those abused comic-vectorial themes
<thorwil> kwwii: it's a 5 year plan, so there will be plenty time for you to catch up ;>
<psyke83> hi
<psyke83> dashua: I see your merge proposal to my branch. I'll be happy to add it, but bzr is warning me about a lot of conflicts, and seems to want to delete a lot of files...
<dashua> Hey psyke83
<dashua> Oops
<dashua> Deny it and I'll resend.  Sent the wrong one with just the Login theme.
<psyke83> ok
<dashua> Give me a sec :)
<psyke83> no problem :)
<psyke83> I've set the status to rejected
<dashua> Ok thx.  Fixing it now.  Let me know what you think?
<dashua> psyke83, Should be ok now.  Sorry about that.
<psyke83> dashua: you didn't add a changelog update, do you want to do that, or will I?
<psyke83> well, I suppose it's better for me to add it to my changelog update, and credit you on that line
<dashua> If  you don't mind.
<dashua> I'll check it out and see what you did.  Still learning bzr to some extent :)
<dashua> Thx
<psyke83> sure... will I add your name to the AUTHORS file too?
<dashua> Cool, thx.
<kwwii> shit, I missed everyone
<zniavre> :o(
<kwwii> :P
<zniavre> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FJH0hYZmVtc/S3sT7FZ5u5I/AAAAAAAAF1k/sGQpr31nEVs/s1600-h/Selection_004.png
<kwwii> hrm, that link doesn't work
<zniavre> sorry ... mine ?
<kwwii> yeah
<kwwii> seems to be a bug in my browser
<kwwii> chrome doesn't allow me to log in
<kwwii> no keyboard input
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-02-21
<vish> nice :D  >   http://0pointer.de/blog/photos/brussels-cathedral.html
<darkmatter> lol. "It's not currently possible and would need an entire rewrite of the  GTK libraries. I believe that basically an RGBA colourmap needs to be  enabled a core level for rounded-corners in menus to become reality. " <--- people should like. educate themselves before flapping their gums.
<darkmatter> darn. I can't post a reply because the site croaked on send. they're conspiring to block my honesty and freedom of speech!
<zniavre> good morning
<zniavre> darkmatter,  wich website is it ?
<darkmatter> gnome-look. I just saw crap about 'you can't have anti-aliased round corners without a complete rewrite of gtk and argb. it's impossible". I wanted to politely inform them that anti-aliased rounded corners have been possible since the late '80's. all 2D
<zniavre> i was thinking install rgba module again on my lucid but atm it's almost broken
<zniavre> vish, all murine themes does that ?
<vish> zniavre: yup , in almost every theme using a murrine engine
<zniavre> ok (it's not my new progressbar concept)
<vish> hehe :D
<zniavre> :o)
<kwwii> darkmatter: nonsense, with our client side deco patch and rgba patch we get nicely anti-aliased rounded windows
<kwwii> in fact, we can have windows of any size
<darkmatter> kwwii: I meant that it can be done with a simple algorithm. no need for any level of compositing. no need to over-complicate crap. that post was like "omg! it's impossible without compositing! you'd need to rewrite gtk for that!"
<kwwii> darkmatter: this is all possible without compositing
<kwwii> anyway, time for lunch
<darkmatter> kwwii: that's my point. it doesn't even require rgba. the nab I wanted to reply to obviously missed the late '80s
<kwwii> ;)
<zniavre> vish,  it must be something wrong with nvidia driver packaging i m trying last from nvidia.com and it works as a charm (murrine theme)
<vish> zniavre: hmm.. maybe. or maybe they added a few bits to the nvidia ubuntu to make the gtk-csd work... but it is definitely  something worth mentioning in the bug
<vish> zniavre: but I'm using ATI , and i have problems too
<zniavre> ...
<zniavre> ok sorry
<vish> zniavre: nothing to be sorry about ;)  .. you can mention it on the bug , it might work for someone else too
<zniavre> https://launchpad.net/bugs/523108  in fact it was another one but it solved xorg cpu eating
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 523108 in nvidia-settings "nvidia x server settings on ubuntu 10.4" [Undecided,New]
<Viper550> Okay, so new theme for next release?
<thorwil> ooh, inkscape just removed 666 unused definitions!
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-02-14
<troy_s> coz_: What's up Cozzie?
<coz_> troy_s,  hey guy :)
<coz_> troy_s,  so how are you ?  its early in t he morning there ,,,yes?
<troy_s> 4:19PM
<troy_s> So not quite.
<coz_> troy_s,  ,,, where are you located?
<troy_s> coz_: Vancouver, BC, Canada.
<coz_> ah
<troy_s> coz_: Plus or minus 30 minutes.
<coz_> troy_s,  ok ,,, for some reason I kept thinking  breat Britain
<troy_s> coz_: Non.
<thorwil> vish: seen http://www.projblog.com/?p=2506 ?
<vish> thorwil: yea.. ;)
<vish> and it was interesting to note the author of the third one too ;p
<thorwil> vish: isn't it great how he combines mentioning the wallpaper pack and linking his flickr pool?
<vish> thorwil: not to forget how he mentions the wrong link for the design brief
<vish> thorwil: I'm going to delete this page content: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/AlternateNattyWallpapers and redirect to the design team blogs, any objections?
<thorwil> vish: i'm puzzled how to handle this ... but don't want to waste any more time on this shit
<thorwil> vish: which makes either total ignorance or a quick and hard reaction attractive
<vish> thorwil: well, for one, you could blog and say "correction to the earlier blog" and point to john's blog ;)
<thorwil> vish: i could, if it was clear to me where the non-phot wallpapers are really supposed to go
<vish> hmm! :(
<vish> yea, iain messed up there..
<vish> thorwil: if you know how to create tags or pools on flikr, just start one and say this is the one :D
<vish> thorwil: iain would surely not object.. he probably just overlooked this..
<thorwil> hmm
<thorwil> i will email ivanka, let's see if she will clear things up
<vish> neat!
<vish> thorwil: hmm, what is the right syntax for wiki redirect?
<thorwil> vish: i don't recall. overwritten by clojure haskell erlang emacs shortcuts ...
<vish> lol ;p
<vish> thorwil: cc iain on that mail, i'm pretty sure he just overlooked that groups issue
<vish> he would have thought folks would just tag the wallpapers
<vish> thorwil: ^^
<thorwil> vish: done
<thorwil> speak of the devil ...
<thorwil> ivanka: good evening :)
<thorwil> vish: "Team namespace was used by spammer; clean page and Redirect to the official post."? cute :)
<vish> ;)
<vish> thorwil: not one person replied to his mail on the mailing list.. and it is pretty clear to others as well that he is having issues with others..
<vish> and still he makes no effort at trying to directly address the issues pointed out
 * vish shrugs..
<coz_> vish,  who is this?
<vish> coz_: the artwork ML spammer ;)
<coz_> oh!!!
<vish> thorwil: are you aware that doctormo has taken the edubuntu task ?
<vish> err, taken == assigned
<thorwil> vish: he showed me a wallpaper. 2 version, with and without narwhals
<vish> thorwil: cool, yea.. and highvoltage too asked this question about john
<thorwil> i really hate that you don't get to see all images in our groups, unless you log in
<raknorak> hi
<raknorak> is there a change for the power icon planed?
<raknorak> i think it's to wide
<vish> raknorak: power icon? why?
<vish> ah!
<vish> raknorak: mark likes big batteries :)
<raknorak> hmmm ^^
<vish> raknorak: the icon from ubuntu-mono would probably not change, it is intentionally made wide.. your best bet is either change the icon theme or edit that icon
<raknorak> what was the intention?
<vish> raknorak: to keep it wider,and make it easier to notice the charge levels
<raknorak> maybe a bit more contrast for the charge level
<raknorak> the grey is a bit too dark :)
<coz_> hope that one guy doesnt mint,,, I made a gimp splash from his wallpaper submission   http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/Gimp/4/gimp-splash.png
<coz_> doesnt "mind"  unless of course he likes mint
<coz_> that is a very attractive wallpaper....
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-02-15
<vish> thorwil: hey.. heard back from iainfarrell or ivanka?
<thorwil> vish: nope
<vish> hm..
<vish> iainfarrell: hey.. where are folks supposed to submit for the illustration wallpapers?
<vish> iainfarrell: we've just mentioned as flickr.. but dint mention the tags or to which group..
<iainfarrell> vish: In the updated blog post it says it's the same place
<iainfarrell> so same group
<iainfarrell> still labelled Natty wallpaper
<iainfarrell> or nattywallpaper :)
<vish> iainfarrell: cool! yea, it seemed the same system.. but thorwil and I were not very sure.. thanks for clearing it up. :)
<iainfarrell> nw
<iainfarrell> basically to a judge it doesn't matter what type of wallpaper it is
<iainfarrell> you're reviewing submissions
<iainfarrell> we're reserving at least 3 places
<iainfarrell> if more drawn entries seem to have merit
<iainfarrell> we can choose more
<iainfarrell> and we'll create a separate pool for the shortlist
<vish> iainfarrell: but then wouldnt the illustrations be difficult to find?
<vish> we usually have a large collection..
<vish> iainfarrell: anyhoo.. its your PITA ;p
<iainfarrell> vish: why would they be hard to find?
<vish> not sure. but someone mentioned that.. :)
<vish> iainfarrell: btw, is ivanka on leave or is she around?
<vish> not exactly *your*  so .. s/your PITA/not my PITA ;)
<iainfarrell> ivanka's been out this AM and is in a meeting
<vish> k..
<iainfarrell> if you look at a search on Flickr
<iainfarrell> for example http://www.flickr.com/search/groups/?q=nattywallpaper&m=pool&w=556923%40N24&z=t
<iainfarrell> I typically get the judges
<iainfarrell> to search by screen
<iainfarrell> so I lock the pool once we've passed the end date
<iainfarrell> and then send them a note saying "you look at pages 1 - 6"
<iainfarrell> and the next person "7 - X"
<vish>  ah!
<iainfarrell> that way they can browse like this
<iainfarrell> and it's easy to see the different ones
<vish> iainfarrell: neat, so you probably know *better* what works for this.. :) it was just something that folks were concerned about and I wasnt sure how things worked there..
<iainfarrell> well hope that helps :)
<iainfarrell> didn't think people not judging would be too concerned with the process
<vish> iainfarrell: yea.. i dont know why either.. but they claimed that(single pool) as a reason why illustrations were not included in the earlier releases..
<vish> but twas that we just dint reserve any place for those! ;)
 * vish now waits for thorwil's post :)
<thorwil> vish: hmm?
<vish> thorwil: a correction to the earlier blog type of thing ;)
<vish> thorwil: i'v updated the page with where the submissions need to go.. : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/AlternateNattyWallpapers
<vish> thorwil: sheesh! he has been "propagating" his groups *everywhere* Â» http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-artwork/discuss/72157625738501389/ see his comment :/
<vish> he has done that even before we switched to flickr !
<coz_> vish,  apparenlty j_baer is an issue?
<vish> coz_: yea, an issue as in misleading people and making them submit at the wrong place ;)
<coz_> oh!!  damn  ,, I wonder if I fell for it  myself?
<vish> coz_: he just doesnt want to ask or listen to anyone.. :(
<coz_> oh man
<vish> coz_: yup :p
<coz_> vish,  damn damn damn
<coz_> vish,  should I remove work from those sites ?
<vish> coz_: sure.. just submit to the ubuntu artwork group and tag this right..
<coz_> ok
<vish> s/this/them
<coz_> you have quick link for ubuntu artwork group?
<vish> coz_: its in : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/AlternateNattyWallpapers
<coz_> vish,  cool thanks... so just link to the flickr account I have?/
<vish> yea i guess.. i havent used flickr :)
<coz_> vish,  ok I will remove from his group links and figure out the right way :)
<thorwil> vish: think i got the right tone? http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/watch-out-regarding-natty-wallpaper-submissions/
<vish> thorwil: hmm.. i would not use that tone for a blog :)
<coz_> sounds to the point
<coz_> though
<vish> yea.. my sentiments too.. but thats not something /i/ might take to a blog.
<thorwil> vish: heh, isn't that why you asked me to blog about it? ;)
<vish> lol! ;p
<vish> yea, thorwil is my henchman ;p
<vish>  such a waste of time with john :/
<coz_> ok so this is the correct one  ...yes?   http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-artwork/
<vish> yup
<coz_> ok  adding now :)
 * thorwil adds a ",please" to make the post so much nicer!
<vish> thorwil: better.. :)
<coz_> ok I have to break here...be back later
<iheartubuntu> hi all. i cant seem to find the site, but i recall there is a website now where people can upload their ubuntu artwork such as flyers, cd sleeves, etc. i cannot seem to find the site though. does anyone recall this? thanks
<doctormo> iheartubuntu: You mean spread ubuntu?
<iheartubuntu> maybe thats it?
<doctormo> iheartubuntu: It is it.
<iheartubuntu> thats it! thanks
<doctormo> you're welcome
<coz_> is edubuntu and kubuntu etc etc  also on that ubuntu artwork flickr?
<thorwil> coz_: no. kubuntu are doing their own thing, i guess. we have specific flickr pools for edubuntu, xubuntu and lubuntu
<coz_> thorwil,  ok I will look for them..thanks
<vish> coz_: edubuntu is off the table from what i hear(someone is already assigned the task).. so xubuntu and lubuntu are open
<coz_> vish,  ah ok  mm
<coz_> vish,  well I believe I removed  the 3 pieces from those " sudo groups"  and put them on the official one :)
<vish> neat!
<coz_> I meant seudo  but it was a play on words   but then you all knew that :)
<vish> :)
<thorwil> vish: how is edubuntu off the table? if nobody else's but a chosen one submissions are wanted anymore, that has to be stated clearly
<vish> thorwil: well, i just read the meeting logs.. i'm hoping the concerned would state it ;)
<thorwil> doctormo: do you know more about that? ^
<doctormo> thorwil: about what?
<thorwil> doctormo: what vish said: "edubuntu is off the table from what i hear(someone is already assigned the task).."
<doctormo> Ah yes, Edubuntu, I've been asked to do it.
<thorwil> doctormo: but the pool is still very much open?
<doctormo> thorwil: There was a meeting last week, I should have reminded highvoltage to close the pool.
<thorwil> doctormo: please make it happen. including mail to the list
<doctormo> thorwil: the right people have been informed.
<thorwil> ty
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-02-16
 * thorwil moves edubuntu natty wallpaper spec to Completed
<thorwil> highvoltage: regarding contests: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/11/20/on-design-contests-in-floss/
<highvoltage> thorwil: *nod* I'm aware of your position there, doctormo pointed it out to me again last week as well :)
<thorwil> cool :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-02-17
 * vish is the evil gloomy darkness of the day! ;p
<vish> thorwil: what poll is sergey talking about..?
<highvoltage> vish: lol
<thorwil> vish: pah, i'm the hordak to your skeletor
<thorwil> vish: obviously he thinks a poll will be the way to go
<thorwil> vish: since out of 1000+ subscribers, there's maybe a small handful who's opinion i would give any weight to, a poll would just shift the problem, from my pov
<thorwil> vish: but i think it's you turn to remind that a big part of the reason for the delay was you pointing out that we should  have the results of that survey
 * highvoltage wonders if there's actually a solution to that problem
<thorwil> i should have (tried to) kill the whole thing before it started, shooting down the proposal. but i was too distracted back then
<vish> yea.. i blame you! ;p
 * highvoltage just saw thorwil's email. hectic.
<vish> hrm! :s
<thorwil> highvoltage: after a few days of consideration, hectic sounds strange
<woutervddn> hey guys, I was wondering where I could find an icon list. in the pictograms.pdf of the branding guidelines there are some, but is there a pool or such with more in them?
<woutervddn> I saw some icons on spreadubuntu that weren't in that file so I'm curious about where they are from..
<doctormo> woutervddn: Some have been made by community artists, other have been made by the canonical design team
<doctormo> the design team ones are available as a tar.gz as svg files
<doctormo> Spread ubuntu is the best place for all the community media ones.
<woutervddn> doctormo: where are those of the design team? I searched everywhere but I think I look over it :s
<doctormo> http://design.canonical.com/brand/
<doctormo> You can also take svg files out of pdf files using inkscape. I did that for quite a few.
<woutervddn> oh god.. I looked on that page I didn't see the /pictograms folder.. :s
<woutervddn> sorry it's getting late here.. Thx anyways.. ;-)
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-02-18
 * vish facepalms at typo should have been "Misled"
<thorwil> vish: having mistyped misled is a meager misstep, nothing that should make you feel miserable
<vish>  :)
<vish> thorwil: i've also noticed john sends his best regards ;p
<thorwil> i still don't know if it's a mental deficiency, or very sophisticated trolling
<vish> heh, lets go with "mental" for now ;)
<thorwil> but interesting that 2 people know to make use of CC and no one else ...
<vish> leogg is a member of the regional board..
<vish> i think the americas one
<thorwil> CC: carbon copy, not community council
<vish> oh! lol
<thorwil> hooray for abbrev. overloading. creative commons, too
<coz_> well the mailing list "stuff" is distressing
<coz_> vish,   I assume the "member" discussed in the mailing list is  jbaer ?
<vish> coz_: afaik, that is whom thorwil , doctormo and I are referring to..
<vish> heh! the same day, we have two replies, one person saying there is no critique and another saying critique is harsh!
<vish> plain madness! :/
<coz_> vish,   absolutely
<coz_> vish,   harsh critisism I have not witnessed
<coz_> except maybe from that  "evilvish" guy  lol
<vish> yea.. :)
<coz_> :)
<vish> i have no more patience for jbaer or his sheer stupidity
 * darkmatter waves vigorously in the direction of coz_ and vish
<coz_> darkmatter,  hey guy :)
<vish> how very odd that he creates his own teams and expects people to come asking him to stop
<vish> as if everyone has nothing else to do..
<coz_> vish,  i understand the desire to contribute... I am not quite sure I understand the move to "fork"  the team... seems a bit over the top
<vish> yea..
<coz_> I have non need for control .. h ere... I have been here for years... I have had my run ins with people from ubuntu-forums over "content"  of graphics,, and certainly wanted change,, this year has brought much of that change ... I really dont want anyone to leave..
<coz_> does this jbear even come here?
<vish> coz_: he lives in his own universe
<coz_> vish,  mm  and yet he has drawn in many people,,, myself included out of ignorance
<vish> coz_: he contacts(spams) a lot of people and misleads
<coz_> vish,   apparenlty
<coz_> vish,  is there no solution?
<vish> coz_: solution for? :)
<coz_> vish,  well anyone leaving... jbear  stopping or joining in as part of the community?
<vish> coz_: i dont know what i can say... someone other than the usual should reply (hint hint) ;)
<vish> the usual suspects*
<coz_> vish,  ah  I completely understand
<coz_> vish,  I assume attempts have been made to discuss things with jbear  as well ...yes?
<vish> coz_: yep, doctormo , thorwil and myself have tried talking to him in private emails, but he does not provide answers about his actions
<highvoltage> good mornign rays of sunshine
<coz_> highvoltage,  hey guy
<coz_> I assume "guy"
<highvoltage> yep
<vish> coz_: i'm completely flabbergasted! i'm like telling people are not submitting at the right place, the place where judges will look  and he ask what is the harm! o.0
<vish> asks*
<vish> if noone mentioned it even now, there would have been no submissions in the actual pool and we would not have had any illustrations :/
<coz_> vish,   understood...  well "if"  his actions were not meant to be " competitive" or done out of malice against this group,,, then at the very least it came at the wrong time...
<coz_> and either way... the "lack" of discussion  prevents any other conclusion  than  apathy to how things are organized
<vish> coz_: that is a big if ;)
<vish> coz_: if he has not understood where the submissions need to go, he should have asked iain
<coz_> damn fingers
<vish>  why create a new team and ask everyone to submit there..
<coz_> vish,  its clear he understands
<vish> yea
<coz_> well let me put my own comments into the mailing list then
<vish> thanks :)
<coz_> vish  who here is actually on the "design team" ?
<highvoltage> jbear lead us (edubuntu) to believe that his effort for a wallpaper was from the ubuntu-art project as a whole. perhaps at the time it was, I still don't know all the details. but I only recently came to realise (after talking to doctormo and some others) that it's definitely not the case now
<vish> highvoltage: thats his MO ;)
<vish> coz_: i asked iain on tuesday i think, it is logged here
<coz_> ok
<vish> coz_: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/02/15/%23ubuntu-artwork.html
<vish> coz_: pls dont quote that on the ML :D
<coz_> thanks looking
<coz_> ok :)
<thorwil> B-)
<vish> bah.. thats the max i can spend talking about john for the day..
<vish> anymore and i'd get insane (even more than now ;))
<thorwil> vish: you should drop out, too
<vish> thorwil: yea, thinking about it as well.. better we just shut the team down
<doctormo> vish: I will go when you go, but you should stay here to talk
<vish> doctormo: :)  the only reason i'm staying on(by a thread) right now, is to hope that people do not get misled further
<vish> seriously i cannot understand why someone would be so stubborn and not sure what he is trying to achieve..
<doctormo> vish: Ah well, I've gone away to do code and I shan't be showing it to anyone or mentioning it until it's basically done.
<doctormo> Because I'm sick of trying to get tools off the ground and being shot down.
<doctormo> Collaboration just means pain.
<vish> hehe!
<vish> doctormo: have you noticed the drop in replies from the design team? they are obviously ignoring john too
<doctormo> They're also a busy team
<vish> yep, that too..
<doctormo> I don't think we should give up on the core idea of the art team, because we show such a bad face to open organisation to the design team.
<vish> if we continue on this path, pretty soon the artwork team would be shut or merged into ayatana
<doctormo> Nah, there is a very different aspect between the two.
<vish> we seriously cant have one person continuously misrepresenting and spreading false info, just because he has the time to spend on this
<vish> if this goes on, then design blog alone is enough.. design team can announce info
<vish> and there need not be any conversations..
<vish> and no one would be able to call themselves representatives ;)
<doctormo> vish: Who administers the mailing list?
<vish> doctormo: kwwii i suppose
<doctormo> the only way to clear this is to get john banned from the mailing list and kicked from being an Ubuntu member.
<vish> doctormo: more than the mailing list. he privately contacts a lot of people
<doctormo> And that would be REALLY hard
<vish> doctormo: the contacting privately is the main problem, he has been going around just asking stating that he is the representative for the art team
<vish> and announcing that there is this competition
<doctormo> Do we have a launchpad team?
<vish> doctormo: yup
<doctormo> kwwii again?
<vish> hmm, i think so
<vish> doctormo: the part where he turns crazy is where he misleads people to his teams instead of the artwork team
<vish> err, s/teams/groups
<doctormo> reptilian civil service empire building. bleh
<vish> doctormo: he is like a nigerian spam scammer ;p
<doctormo> but worse, fishing attacks ;-)
<vish> :D
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-02-19
<troy_s> Wow. I'm impressed.
<troy_s> vish / cozziemoto
<vish> troy_s: heya!
<vish> troy_s: what seems to have impressed you? ;)
<troy_s> vish: How goes it vishy?
<vish> just hanging in there.. :) how about you?
<troy_s> vish: Same busy rubbish that bores the snot out of folks.
<vish> haha!
<troy_s> vish: How goes things?
<troy_s> vish: Anything interesting?
<vish> troy_s: well, nothing interesting per-se.. but weird things going on thats all ;)
<vish> troy_s:  "<troy_s> Wow. I'm impressed."  whats that about?
<troy_s> vish: I'll leave it at that.
<troy_s> vish: Re: The Topic. Bring the fellow into this forum and I will talk to them.
<vish> troy_s: hmm, not sure I follow
<troy_s> vish: If you can get the individual to make an appearance in here, it might be easier to achieve a resolution.
<vish> troy_s: you mean john?
<troy_s> ...
<vish> troy_s: we've tried that, but he does not want to come here..
<troy_s> Well that is unfortunate.
<troy_s> I'd hope that the goals are the net sum. I'm actually inclined to entirely back Coz's last mail that I got forwarded.
<vish> i think he considers himself a lone ranger or maverick or whatever
<vish> troy_s: yup, thats why i dont see banning john as a solution
<troy_s> 1) The work. If the work is good, it can often justify the means. Thus far, the work isn't good. Period. Full stop. End point. Clearly a result of:
<vish> troy_s: basically, thorwil or me asking for answers did not get any reply from john
<vish> troy_s: so i was hoping someone else will call him out.. and yay! coz did :)
<troy_s> 2) The people. What has been brought to the table? What gains have been made in this regard? Zero. Nothing. Nil. Case closed. Failure.
<troy_s> See the strength of coz's statement is backed up with some work. Real work. You might not like Coz's aesthetic choices, but he is likely a monumental leap beyond the rest.
<troy_s> _That_ is the cultural problem. Giving equal voice and that goofy 'lets-not-define-it' freedom. Free to do this. Free to do that. Anarchy. That isn't healthy freedom (which implies restrictions)
<troy_s> So about the best thing I can see is to support folks like coz_ because, gollllyyyyy, they can actually create work.
<troy_s> But it's good to see some challenges. Might rile up something.
<troy_s> vish: What are your thoughts?
<vish> troy_s: yea, but my mind kinda mind-fudged right now.. dont even want to spend time thinking about that stupidness
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> It is sad that there isn't ultimately really any work.
<vish> precisely!
<vish> silly high-schoolish drama, like teenagers
<troy_s> But I can't see an easy path forward there. There is clearly a need for a collective of sorts. Managing how to generate work from that is about oh... phase 194123.
<troy_s> vish: I will say that I've been pretty damn impressed with some individuals I've bumped into of late.
<vish> cool!
<vish> troy_s: basically people dont understand the importance artwork plays in the OS or what importance is given right now for artwork/design â¦ and he seems to want to control it o.0
<troy_s> vish: Well... let's not be quite that harsh. I'd probably extend that bloody line right up the ladder.
<troy_s> vish: I mean, honestly, who does?
<vish> ha! :)
<troy_s> vish: It's such a complex dance. All of the /me does is probably pretty bunk.
<vish> troy_s: right, but anyone not in the position to control it, should not act like the way he is doing..
<troy_s> vish: No. And that probably takes me back to point 2. People.
<vish> yea..
<troy_s> vish: There is so much rubbish to be smashed and dashed in an instant, but alas, there is zero credibility.
<troy_s> vish: It is one thing to have leadership, another to have credibility.
 * vish nods
<troy_s> vish: And credibility is no easy path I'd estimate.
<troy_s> vish: I am pretty sure that we could probably agree that in all of Libre software there is a 0.0001% there.
<vish> troy_s: well, if things keep going on with such silliness, even I'd give up.. you do know that thorwil quit right?
<troy_s> vish: Yes someone pointed me in that way.
<troy_s> vish: I'm not entirely sure quitting is a bad thing. Probably only 'bad' if nothing is learnt.
<vish> yup..
<vish> troy_s: well, not basically cause of john, but more that if such behavior is tolerated, nothing will be achieved
<vish> we can rather just imagine we live in castles and riding poines
<vish> ponies*
<troy_s> vish: It isn't the behaviour. It's about people remember? ;)
<vish> yea, i say behvaior, you say people, potato , potato ;p
<troy_s> vish: Probably takes us right back full circle to that discussion we had about the reality that this mythical "Freedom" rubbish will _repel_ an audience.
<troy_s> vish: The solution should be relatively easy to see at this point.
<troy_s> (at least to the woes you are facing at the moment.)
<vish> exactly! no serious artist will spend time on an imaginary goal, and if the artist has even the slightest bit of thinking power he would realize that even that imaginary goal is not achievable
<vish> anyhoo.. i'm going afk in a bit, will catch up later.. :)
<troy_s> vish: Email me.
<troy_s> vish: Ciao.
<vish> sure thing.
<LegacyCX> Hi
<doctormo> vish: hello
<coz_> hey guys
<vish> doctormo: hey..
<doctormo> hey vish
<doctormo> your email was very direct, :-)
<popey> vish: for the record you dont have to ask the cc to deal with john
<popey> the leadership within the team can choose to eject someone who is disruptive
<popey> the cc will of course help and support you if you feel that it's not something you can easily do
<popey> but dont feel that you _have_ to resort to the CC
 * popey removes his CC hat
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-02-20
<doctormo> cozziemoto:
<vish> popey: ah! ok. :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-02-15
<newhoa> If I'm playing with a Gtk3 theme that can be rendered using either the Unico or Adwaita with just a few unnoticeable tweaks, is there any reason I should prefer one over the other? Speed benefits, better support, better future support, etc?
