#ubuntu-mobile 2007-09-10
<dholbach> good morning
<stgraber>  /whois heno
<stgraber> oops :)
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Good morning. Did you call me?
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: no, should I have?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: No, I was having a coffee and my adsl went down for a minute and I had the impression that you called me just before that. Just checking.
<Mithrandir> ah, no, I didn't
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Cool. Thanks.
* mjg59 pokes contacts a bit harder
<mjg59> I've got most of a useful hildon UI now
* agoliveira hugs mjg59 :)
<dholbach> rock on mjg59
<kwwii> now if someone would ever fix the themeing issues we could also make it look nice
<mawhalen> tfheen - will Ubuntu-mobile stay on 2.6.22?
<agoliveira> mawhalen: Hi. I don't have the final word on this but believe so.
<mawhalen> agoliveira - thanks
<mdz> mawhalen: yes
<mdz> mawhalen: though I'm told that Intel has some power management fixes in for .23 which we might want to backport
<mawhalen> mdz:  do you know who that was?
<mdz> mawhalen: arjan
<Sciri> Mithrandir: What's the status on the additional packages that mfrey asked you to include in the Ubuntu Mobile fset/dependencies like Bluez, Network Manager, etc.? I just brought up a Q1 ultra using the latest Gutsy Image Creator and it's still missing Control Panels and a bunch of applets.
<Mithrandir> Sciri: since they're not in Ubuntu yet, I'm not adding them to any seed or fset; prod HappyCamp into getting it through the sponsorship process
<Sciri> Mithrandir: OK, thanks...I'll ping him.
<buzzinfly> is this the right place to talk about mini-PCIe Intel wireless cards?????
<bspencer> Mithrandir, ping
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-09-11
<dholbach> good morning
<asac> Mithrandir: hey ... that upload wasn't really coordinated :)
<asac> (did you just add midbrowser?)
<Mithrandir> asac: yes, I just added midbrowser (or rather, I moved the variants into a variable and added midbrowser there)
<asac> hmm ... ok i will redo that in my tree then 
<asac> the package is really messy ... there have been a bunch of uploads with broken alternatives in the past by MOTUs and I wanted to get it right this time ;)
<Mithrandir> well, this is a first step in getting rid of the broken alternatives.
<asac> no idea :) ... its cleanup of history ... 
<Mithrandir> I think having alternatives for it is utter crack, but, well, you're the mozilla guy. :-P
<asac> actually this morning i woke up and wanted to try what pop suggesteed
<asac> s/pop/bob/
<Mithrandir> all browsers should just have /usr/lib/browser/plugins or something that they look in, IMO
<asac> e.g. link to /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
<Mithrandir> we talked about that some time ago, iirc
<asac> Mithrandir: we will have that with xulrunner 1.9 (gutsy+1)
<asac> yeah
<asac> Mithrandir: whatelse would you suggest (e.g. instead of alternatives)
<asac> Mithrandir: you want to conflict gnash + flashplugin-nonfree for instance?
<Mithrandir> you'd add the conflict between gnash's plugin, not the main gnash package, but yes, sure.
<Mithrandir> if people want to use different plugins in different browsers, the browsers should give higher priority to ~/.blah/plugins and the user can install the plugin he wants there
<asac> what i don't like about that is that you need to add conflicts for all flash packages to all other flash packages ;)
<Mithrandir> no, you don't.  Provides: mozilla-flashplugin\nConflicts: mozilla-flashplugin\nReplaces: mozilla-flashplugin
<asac> Mithrandir: ok so you can conflict on a virtual package (even though you provide that package)?
<Mithrandir> sure, look at what all the MTAs do.
<asac> Mithrandir: your idea about user install .blah/plugins on their own sounds good,
<asac> the main issue i see with that is that in the free software world software often is not distributed as binary. So people that cannot install our package need to build from source et al
<asac> currently they can just ln -s /usr/lib/gnash/libgnashplugin.so ~/.mozilla/plugins/ ... even though flashplugin-nonfree is systemwide default
<asac> but maybe i will just do it ... just to get rid of this alternative mess :)
<Mithrandir> or have a single alternatives if you believe there is real value in it
<Mithrandir> but having one value per browser is a mess and a madness
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: who is Adilson Oliveira on irc?
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: agoliveira 
<agoliveira> That's me :)
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: oh dear.  i suck.
<Hobbsee> agoliveira: hiya!
<agoliveira> Hobbsee: Hi. What's up?
<Hobbsee> agoliveira: --> /query, no need to use this channel
<mjg59> agoliveira: Do you have a spec for what level of functionality is desired in the contacts application?
<agoliveira> mjg59: Sorry for the delay, hold on please, I'm on phone.
<agoliveira> mjg59: Sorry, I was in a call with the new business guy here in Brazil. I don't have a spec but I believe that the basic things like record people data and search are expected. Are you thinking about any missing features?
<mjg59> agoliveira: Ok, should be doable
<ian_brasil> i have been doing an apt-get upgrade inside a target for a few days now and the package ubuntu-mobile is always being held back...any idea why?
<Mithrandir> you should be doing dist-upgrade.  apt-get upgrade never removes anything, nor installs new packages.
<bfiller> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> bfiller: pong
<bfiller> dholbach: I'll pulled source for gnome-system-tools using apt-get source and made mods to it. My question is I want to store the changes in local bzr repository for now. Do I need to do a bzr init and bzr add * to set that up?
<dholbach> bfiller: you can just branch off your local checkout
<dholbach> bzr branch gnome-system-tools gnome-system-tools.local
<dholbach> for example
<bfiller> dholbach: cool. I'll give that a try
<dholbach> rock on :)
<bfiller> dholbach: you the man!!
<dholbach> hehe :-)
<ian_brasil> Mithrandir: thanks
<dholbach> bfiller: you can push that up to launchpad later on then, running    bzr push --remember sftp://bfiller@bazaar.launchpad.net/~bfiller/gnome-system-tools/fillers-fixes
<bfiller> dholbach: Does gnome-system-tools currently live in launchpad?
<dholbach> sorry, it's gst
<dholbach> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/gst/+branches?field.lifecycle=ALL&field.lifecycle-empty-marker=1
<dholbach> that's a legacy problem, since the cvs data from gnome was imported were stuck with gst instead of gnome-system-tools
<dholbach> shorter type, but harder to discover
<dholbach> shorter to type
<bfiller> dholbach: when I run bzr branch gnome-system-tools gnome-system-tools.local it complains gnome-system-tools is not a branch
<dholbach> are you in the right directory?
<dholbach> if 'ls' gives you the gnome-system-tools dir and you have a .bzr in it, that command should work fine
<bfiller> dholbach: I think the problem is when I do apt-get source gnome-system-tools, there is no .bzr directory after it unpacks the source
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> I thought you had gotten it from running  bzr get ...   or something
<bfiller> dholbach: Is it hosted in bzr anywhere? I couldn't find that
<dholbach> in that case, I'd probably try to clean the diff between a fresh run of   apt-get source gnome-system-tools  as best as I can
<dholbach> no, I don't think it is
<bfiller> dholbach: not sure I understand
<dholbach> I though you had gotten it from bzr from somewhere, I misunderstood
<bfiller> dholbach: ok
<dholbach> so yeah, if you want to keep further changes in bzr, you might want to run debclean, then run bzr init; bzr add *; bzr commit -m "initial commit"
<bfiller> dholbach: sounds like a plan
<bfiller> dholbach: thanks for your help
<dholbach> no problem :)
<agoliveira> Hmmm... Looks like the unionfs module on the image created with the latest image-creator is crashing... :( checking...
<agoliveira> in a Q1
<mjg59> agoliveira: Yeah, various people have noticed that
<agoliveira> mjg59: Well, +1 here, just confirmed. I shouldn't have tried a new image today :( Thanks.
<guardian> does ubuntu-mobile plan to impose an input method framework ? 
<guardian> uim ? scim ? hildon ?
<guardian> xim ?
<agoliveira> Cool stuff for us to keep an eye: http://enlightenment.sourceforge.net/Libraries/Edje/
<agoliveira> Is there any workaround for this hanging problem that rendered my Q1 useless that I missed?
<kwwii> nope, but you just convinced me not to update ;-)
* agoliveira grumbles about this new kernel...
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: downgrade the kernel is a workaroudn.
<Mithrandir> I've filed a bug about it
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I've tried the -ume kernel and didn't work. I'm downgrading it right now.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Thanks for filling the bug I was about to do it after testing the new kernel.
<Mithrandir> happy to help
<amitk> agoliveira: it's the unionfs bug that is bothering you?
<agoliveira> Yep... and bothering is a mild way to put it :)
<amitk> agoliveira: :) pkl is looking into it....
<agoliveira> amitk: Great. Thanks.
* agoliveira is going out to the accountant. brb.
<Sciri> Any ETA on the above mentioned Q1 problem? I built an image-creator image for my Q1 yesterday; I take it I shouldn't update it today? ;)
<agoliveira> Sciri: Exactly. The kernel is broken.
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-09-12
<dholbach> good morning
<Mithrandir> hi Daniel
* Mithrandir goes scrounging for breakfast
<dholbach> heya Tollef
<dholbach> asac: can you take a look at bug 133452?
<ian_brasil> on mamemo we call a permanent applet on the desktop ..like a gDesklet..a Home applet. On UME does this concept exist?..it is not a marquee,status bar or control plugin as far as i can tell
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Can you point me to schedule you've being working on? I lost the URL.
<agoliveira> mjg59: Hi. You have being working on python-hildon binds, right? How are they going?
<mjg59> agoliveira: Yeah. Slightly slowly - should be done by the end of the week
<mjg59> contacts is now working but ugly
<agoliveira> mjg59: Cool. I'm just colecting info on the current status of UME stuff. Thanks.
<mawhalen> mdz - is it possible to get one of the Samsung Q1U to Alexander Sacs?
<mdz> mawhalen: yes, that's possible
<mdz> mawhalen: I'll see to it
<mawhalen> mdz:  great
<patm> agoliveira: I just sent you an email
<agoliveira> patm: I'll play the offline backup for you, hold on :)
<agoliveira> patm: I'm uploading it to my website and I'll let you know when it's done.
<patm> agoliveira: I owe you one for sure
<agoliveira> patm: Save it for the UDS ;)
<agoliveira> patm: It will take some time tough as my upload bandwidth is a bit limited.
<agoliveira> bspencer: Hi Bob. Have a minute?
<bspencer> in two secs.
<bspencer> agoliveira, hello
<bspencer> I was just asking about claws and lpia :)
<bspencer> oy, I just missed my dentist appt .   
<bspencer> agoliveira, whenever you're ready
<bspencer> Mithrandir, ping
<agoliveira> bspencer: Sorry, I was testing something in fullscreen
<bspencer> agoliveira, np
<agoliveira> bspencer: I just want to know the status of moblin-media and moblin-chat
<bspencer> agoliveira, both are functional
<agoliveira> bspencer: Can I git them and package?
<bspencer> moblin-media is usable, but has a major UI upgrade planned
<bspencer> agoliveira, yes
<agoliveira> or do you have a package already?
<bspencer> we have a package
<agoliveira> Even cooler :) I'll see that tomorrow
<agoliveira> bspencer: Anything you want to know from me?
<bspencer> how has Mithrandir done it with other moblin-packaged projecdts?
<bspencer> agoliveira, yeah.  If I want to run claws-hildon on my Samsung
<bspencer> do I need to checkout the source and rebuild it?
<bspencer> also, Mithrandir didn't send out the weekly notice for the meeting.  Do you want me to do that?
<agoliveira> bspencer: Currently, it's the better bet as we don't have a full lpia build yet.
<agoliveira> s/better/best
<bspencer> agoliveira, ok.  If I get the .deb pkg from "ports.ubuntu.com" will that work ?
<agoliveira> bspencer: Possibly but you will have to force the instalation and take care of the deppendencies manually.
<agoliveira> bspencer: I mean, should work, yes.
<bspencer> agoliveira, ok.  maybe I'll just build it
<bspencer> makes sense.
<agoliveira> bspencer: If you build it you will still have to deal with the dependencies or hack your way around them on the debian/control and rules as it's coded to only present the hildon interface when build on lpia bootstrap
<agoliveira> Hmmm... maybe I can help you out... hold on a minute...
<bspencer> agoliveira, is it possible to hack something on the system to make it appear as lpia ?
<agoliveira> bspencer: I don't know but I do have some preliminary binaries hacked to work on i386. You can try them.
<bspencer> agoliveira, ok.  if you send them to me I'll try them.  I should probably get some source working here too just in case I want to fix a pet-peeve bug :)
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: please make sure to coordinate any uploads of stuff hosted on moblin.org with HappyCamp 
<Mithrandir> bspencer: hi
<bspencer> I'll verify that our packages for moblin-media and moblin-chat are as good as we can make them for you tomorrow.  You'll probably still find things to fix.
<bspencer> Mithrandir, good evening.  I was just pinging to see if you'd like me to send your weekly "send status report" email.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Sure do.
<Mithrandir> bspencer: if you'd like, sure.
<bspencer> Mithrandir, oh, and also... what are the chances of getting openedhand's clutter v0.4 into gutsy at this late date?  (current version is 0.2)
<bspencer> that is what I really wanted to ask
<bspencer> my /really/ good reason is that the new UI needs v0.4
<Mithrandir> bspencer: shouldn't be a problem at all.
<bspencer> Mithrandir, where do I make that request?  
<Mithrandir> bspencer: is it in Debian?
<Mithrandir> seems like it
<Mithrandir> bspencer: follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess and tell me the bug # and I'll ack it
<bspencer> Mithrandir, yes, libclutter-0.2-dev is available in gusty now
<bspencer> ok.  I'll follow the steps
<agoliveira> bspencer: Got my msg?
<bspencer> yeah, and also registered my nick so you can see my "thx" ;)
<agoliveira> bspencer: Right :)
<agoliveira> bspencer: Anything else. I got to go. I have some cooking lessons to attend today :)
<bspencer> nope
<agoliveira> ?
<bspencer> have a good night
<agoliveira> Cool. Bye.
<lucasr> yo
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-09-13
<dholbach> good morning
<Sciri> Mithrandir: I just did a new Q1 image last night with samsung-full-mobile-stack-with-proprietary and ubuntu-staging and then did an apt-get dist-upgrade this morning when I saw a new moblin-applets was available; the Network Manager Applet icon still isn't showing up in the status bar.
<Sciri> Mithrandir: Also, when trying to run the Network Configuration control panel, I now get "You are not allowed to access the system configuration" since it appears we're not running as root anymore.
<ian_brasil> i just got pyphantom to execute om ume if anyone is interested...there is a video of this here http://ianlawrence.info/random-stuff/pyphantom-on-ubuntu-mobile/
<Mithrandir> Sciri: can you install gksudo and see if that fixes it?
<Sciri> OK, trying now...
<Sciri> Package gksudo not available...
<Sciri> Ahhh, found the package...gksu...installing now
<Sciri> Mithrandir: Nope, installed the gksu package and still no applet in the status bar and still getting the permission problem in the Network Config control panel.
<Sciri> Is there any additional configuration needed for gksudo to work?
<Sciri> (I rebooted as well)
<Mithrandir> I wouldn't think you needed more config, no.
<Mithrandir> for nm, can you check if nm-applet is running?
<Sciri> Nope, nm-applet isn't running...
<agoliveira_lunch> Sciri: Shawn, didn't you have the unionfs problem?
<Sciri> agoliveira: I did last night...was fighting with it untii midnight. Rebooted this morning and it worked fine. And I didn't change anything between last night and today.
<Sciri> So I have no idea why it's working now and wasn't working last night. I literally shut the Q1 down at the frozen swap screen last night and turned it back on this morning; running fine.
<agoliveira> Sciri: Weird... I didn't play with my Q1 today. Did you use the daily build or image-creator to generate the image?
<Mithrandir> Sciri: can you post your .xsession-errors somewhere?
<Mithrandir> the dailies don't work due to busticated kernel
<agoliveira> Sciri: BTW, your pepper sauce is already ordered as promissed ;)
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I see.
<Sciri> agoliveira: Last night I upgraded my Gutsy host with apt-get dist-upgrade and got the latest Gutsy image-creator. Created a fresh samsung-full-mobile-stack-with-proprietary/ubuntu-staging Project and Target. And the Q1 wouldn't boot. But booted fine this morning.
<Sciri> Mithrandir: Sure, let me just get it on the network and grab the file.
<Mithrandir> Sciri: cheers.
<agoliveira> Well, I'll give it a try later.
* agoliveira grumbles about the fscking noise of the sander the builders are using in the next room :(
<Sciri> agoliveira: Oooh...hot sauce! Thanks!
<Mithrandir> hi Don, Peter
<Don_Johnson> hello
<ptung1> Hello
<mawhalen> Mauri joined too
<Mithrandir> ah, sorry, I didn't see you.  Hiya. :-)
<agoliveira> Sciri: Yep. My older sister is going to pay me a visit next month and she will bring something special for you :)
<Mithrandir> asac,amitk: you around?
<Sciri> agoliveira: I am looking forward to the pain it will bring. ;)
<benj3one> oh wow
<agoliveira> Sciri: Cool. This one I asked her to bring is not very hot but very, very tasty in IMHO.
<mawhalen> Role call from Intel - Rusty?  Todd?  Carl?  Bob?  John?
<amitk> Mithrandir: yes
<mawhalen> Rob is on vacation and will be back next week
<ToddBrandt> yo
<CharliefJohnson> Charlie's here!
* agoliveira waves all yawning USA people :)
<Don_Johnson> Don Johnson from Intel is here.
<asac> Mithrandir: still involved in other meeting ... will be here in a few
<rustyl> i'm here
<Mithrandir> asac: ahkay.
<CharliefJohnson> Just finishing 20oz very strong coffee.
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir: Are we at critical mass?
<agoliveira> CharliefJohnson: If I know american coffee, unless it's a spresso, it's probably about as strong as my tea :)
<Mithrandir> CharliefJohnson: I believe we are, yes.
<Mithrandir> mawhalen: who are you missing on your end?
<mawhalen> Bob
<mawhalen> and John
<mawhalen> Carl is joining - Carl?
<Mithrandir> Carl's here, cwong1
<cwong1> here
<Mithrandir> ok, let's start.
<Mithrandir> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:54. The chair is Mithrandir.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
<Mithrandir> clock's still off.
<agoliveira> I was about to say that
* asac is here
<Mithrandir> sorry, just trying to catch up with myself here and finding out which specs we have status reports for on the mailing list
* agoliveira just heard a loud bang and the lights went off... no break kicking in... crap... be back in 30 secs
<Mithrandir> missing from:
<Mithrandir> - browser
<Mithrandir> - mobile-image-creatioin
<Mithrandir> - mobile-utilities
<Mithrandir> does that seem right?
<ToddBrandt> sending mine out right now, sorry
<ToddBrandt> moblin-utilities is on the list now
<Mithrandir> ok, thanks.
<Mithrandir> the agenda I have is:
<Mithrandir> - action items from last week
<Mithrandir> - status reports
<Mithrandir> - kernel status
<Mithrandir> anybody have any more agenda items?
<Mithrandir> hi bob
<bspencer> hi
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir: Need to ask about GPLv3 
<Mithrandir> ok
<Mithrandir> if anybody has any more, tell me and I'll add it during the meeting
* agoliveira is back... main power is down. I hope the nobreak holds it...
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  action items from last week
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items from last week 
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir:  How about App status ?  Was there anything sent?
<Mithrandir> I see Charlie got Waldo to send out status reports now; thanks a lot.
<bspencer> CharliefJohnson: I sent for media and chat.
<cwong1> CharliefJohnson: I sent the midbrowser
<Mithrandir> cwong1: you did?  I haven't seen it
* asac neither
<bspencer> haha!
<bspencer> 9:06am
<cwong1> I sent to ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com
<Mithrandir> ah, there
<cwong1> at 9:01
<bspencer> I got it
<asac> right ... last minute submission ;)
<Mithrandir> The psb driver should be fine now, Charlie, have you tested that?
<Mithrandir> I'm not sure how to see whether it's accellerating ops or not.
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir: No we still have an issue.  Our contractor has an issue with the patch that was submitted.  i need to send Steve his comments.
<Mithrandir> ok, can you follow up on that?
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir:  yes
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  Charlie to follow up with Steve wrt psb patch for EXA 2.1
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Charlie to follow up with Steve wrt psb patch for EXA 2.1 
<Mithrandir> thanks.
<Mithrandir> ToddBrandt: you were to check up dbus for gconf, how's that gone?
<ToddBrandt> actually I need some clarification on that, what is it you're looking for Bob?
<bspencer> dbus uses corba by default
<bspencer> in gnome
<ToddBrandt> I've been preoccupied with bug fixing this week and haven't had time to check into this one
<rustyl> ?
<rustyl> did you mean gconf ?
<bspencer> Nokia had some patches for gconf to use dbus instead
<bspencer> rustyl: sorry, yes
<bspencer> gconf uses corba by default
<bspencer> the assignment was to look at IPC wrt gconf
<bspencer> and make sure it is what we want it to be
<bspencer> if we don't have to include corba, it is one less thing
<bspencer> that's all.
<ToddBrandt> so in hildon-desktop?
<bspencer> hildon-desktop uses dbus for notifications
<bspencer> I don't know much about gconf as I've not looked into it 
<bspencer> wrt communication
<rustyl> bspencer, yes, gconf uses orbit
<rustyl> at least the version we use
<ToddBrandt> ok, I'll have a look at this as I test out the keybindings applet this week
<Mithrandir> it'd probably be compromised of prodding a bit at libgconf too
<ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: yea, my understanding of gconf is evolving as I enable the applets
<Mithrandir> ok, I think you win the action item again. :-)
<ToddBrandt> :)
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  ToddBrandt to further investigate dbus for gconf
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ToddBrandt to further investigate dbus for gconf 
<Mithrandir> I checked up on the lsb-base bug that broken nm, and uploaded a fix.
<Mithrandir> (from Todd, iirc?)
<ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: great, when can we expect that to be in ubuntu gutsy?
<Mithrandir> CharliefJohnson: you were to investigate updates to mobile-power-thermal-opts, which has been posted, so thanks for that.
<Mithrandir> ToddBrandt: it's been there since Friday or so
<ToddBrandt> excellent!
<Mithrandir> bfiller,rustyl,bspencer: the three of you were to work out the details on how to get the event mechanism in m-b-f working well
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir: I remember to nag them the night before.
<bspencer> Mithrandir: yes we were.
<bspencer> but only bfiller followed up
<Mithrandir> CharliefJohnson: yup, thanks.  It's usually what's needed.
<bspencer> and so we haven't finished our assignment
* agoliveira makes a note to buy a nobreak that *has* a way to shut up the alarm :(
<rustyl> i saw the email yesterdaay from ben, but i haven't responded yet
<Mithrandir> rustyl: on a slightly related note, can the mobile-application-service be removed from the archive now?
<bspencer> Mithrandir: yes
<Mithrandir> ok, coo.
<bspencer> you can remove the glorious "MAS"
<bspencer> :.(
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  tfheen to get mas removed from the archive
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tfheen to get mas removed from the archive 
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  bfiller, rustyl, bspencer to work out details on how to get event mechanism in mobile-basic-flash work well, in a meaningful way
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bfiller, rustyl, bspencer to work out details on how to get event mechanism in mobile-basic-flash work well, in a meaningful way 
<bspencer> Mithrandir: thanks
<Mithrandir> I reviewed and approved specs, but that's some of an ongoing process.
<rustyl> Mithrandir, on that same note, you need to update the ubuntu-mobile meta package to not pull in the application service
<Mithrandir> rustyl: ack, that'll be part of it.
<Mithrandir> and I failed to raise the scheduling on the mailing list, so I get that again
<Mithrandir> sorry, doorbell
<sodarock_home> while Mithrandir gets the doorbell anyone know the link to Mootbot?  To review action items?
<agoliveira> bspencer: "mas" in portuguese means "but" or "evil females" which makes sense in a kind of kinky way :)
<ToddBrandt> lol
<agoliveira> sodarock_home: I think only Mithrandir can do it now as he's the chairperson.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20070906_1555.html
<sodarock_home> Oh I know that.  I just wanted to see them :)  Thanks Mithrandir 
<bspencer> agoliveira: thanks for the info
<bspencer> :)
<agoliveira> Ah.. sorry I misunderstood your request.
<Mithrandir> oh s/agolivera/sodarock_home/
<Mithrandir> chop off the last bit of the URL and you get the directory
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  tfheen to raise scheduling/freezes on mailing list, decision to be taken in next week's meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tfheen to raise scheduling/freezes on mailing list, decision to be taken in next week's meeting 
<Mithrandir> moving on to status reports
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  status reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  status reports 
<Mithrandir> now that browser and mobile-utilities have been sent to the list, we only have mobile-image-creation left.
* sodarock_home thinks he has
* sodarock_home knows he has failed in this area :(
<Mithrandir> sodarock_home: slacker. :-P  Now you get to make up for it.
<sodarock_home> Okay I can talk about MIC now if wanted?
<Mithrandir> aka, what's up in m-i-c land?
<Mithrandir> yes, please.
<bspencer> a new icon for one
<sodarock_home> Okay.  Edited the GUI to remove the ISO buttons.
<sodarock_home> Yes a new "MIC" icon that replaces "PB"
<sodarock_home> Started work on the project save and restore.
<rustyl> now that's progress
<sodarock_home> Currently can save a project via the command line.
<rustyl> on the icon.... that is
<sodarock_home> Woot!  icon!
<sodarock_home> Added a throbber for writing a USB image.
<sodarock_home> Throbber should not stop anymore when creating a USB image.
<bspencer> sodarock_home: fixed a bug I was having too where image-creator would get wiped off my system and I'd have to logout when an error occured.
<bspencer> very big for me
<Mithrandir> you were reworking the config system too?
<sodarock_home> Yes.  Had MIC make symbolic links into absolute links.  This was causing bugs before with bspencer
<sodarock_home> The config system is well into place.
<sodarock_home> More things should be added as time goes by.  But the basic stuff is there and I have seen no problems from the config system.
<sodarock_home> That's all I can think of off the top of my head.   Can read the debian/changelog for more details.
<Mithrandir> nice, thanks.
<Mithrandir> what's next week's plans?
<sodarock_home> Hopefully get the save and restore feature completed.  I know some pepper guys want that to work.
<bspencer> yes, and me too.  Then we can have a well-known working project/target without having to create one
<bspencer> no more complaints about failures holding people up
<bspencer> (at least as often)
<sodarock_home> That's all I got for now.
<Mithrandir> thanks a lot.
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  kernel status
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel status 
<Mithrandir> amitk: the kernel is busted at the moment due to unionfs being broken in gutsy
<Mithrandir> any idea when we can expect a fix for that?
<amitk> Mithrandir: that's correct.
<amitk> pkl (the filesystems expert) can only look at it next week. I will look at it tonight...
<amitk> we could ask for the patch to be rolled back until a fix is found though.
<Mithrandir> that'd be helpful
<agoliveira> amitk: That would be great.
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir: One note guys.  The status of daily quite visible within Intel.  It staying broke for multiple days at a time causes a lot of issues and I end up doing lots of explaining.
<amitk> I will talk to the kernel team. There is going to be a kernel upload tomorrow. So a revert will get us back on our horses on Monday
<alek_xdu1> Mithrandir, do you know what's the last change for, I mean unionfs
<sodarock_home> CharliefJohnson: Hopefully the save/restore with the PDK will help somewhat with issues like that.
<sodarock_home> s/PDK/Moblin Image Creator/
<amitk> alek_xdu1: it was to bring unionfs in sync with upstream
<Mithrandir> CharliefJohnson: understood.
<alek_xdu1> amitk, thanks. I'm curious if Moblin kernel need do this also.
<CharliefJohnson> sodarock_home:  I don't really use image-creator.  Just the menlow_full daily builds.
<Mithrandir> amitk: it would be useful if we can work out a process to get fixes/workarounds for such problems applied a bit quicker through a well-defined procedure.
<sodarock_home> Ahh.  Okay.  never mind then.
<Mithrandir> do you have any suggestions to what we can do in that regard?
<agoliveira> sodarock_home: I tried both. Same problem.
<amitk> Currently, the only thing I can think of is a special daily build for UME kernels
<rustyl> Mithrandir, do you keep the older kernel packages around in the gutsy apt repositories?
<sodarock_home> agoliveira: huh?  what?
<Mithrandir> rustyl: they're possible to find through launchpad, yes.
<agoliveira> sodarock_home: daily builds against UME
<Mithrandir> slightly involved process, but certainly not impossible.
<CharliefJohnson> amitk: Are kernel fixes/changes only uploaded at set intervals ?? (Sorry I don't know the procedure.)
<rustyl> Mithrandir, i was thinking... if our fset installed a specific kernel version then we could just update the fset when a warm body verifies the new kernel works as expected
<rustyl> but that only works if the older kernel packages stick around in the apt repositor
<amitk> CharliefJohnson: That is correct. About 2-3 times a month. This is because preparing the ABI, testing the builds on all supported architectures takes some time
<Mithrandir> amitk: ok, so maybe we should have a test case that at least does a basic functionality test of what we need for UME would be useful?
<CharliefJohnson> amitk: Do they test UME ??  Make sure it still installs?
<amitk> Mithrandir: yes.. but this one came out of the blue... it was because of Apparmor changes
<Mithrandir> amitk: we shouldn't end up being overcautious, I agree, but when those kinds of problem happens, it's very problematic.
<amitk> CharliefJohnson: Yes, UME is tested. But in this case it slipped through the cracks associated with timezones
<CharliefJohnson> amitk, Mithrandir : The issue isn't the introduced bug.  It is the time to get a fix.  
<amitk> CharliefJohnson: agreed and noted.
<Mithrandir> amitk: can you take an action item to think some good thoughts about ways to work around the problem if it appears again?
<amitk> Mithrandir: I will. This is clearly unacceptable.
<Mithrandir> thanks
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir, amitk : Great.  Thanks.
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  amit to investigate ways to work around or fix critical kernel problems when then pop up
<MootBot> ACTION received:  amit to investigate ways to work around or fix critical kernel problems when then pop up 
<Mithrandir> ok, moving on to GPLv3
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  GPLv3
<MootBot> New Topic:  GPLv3 
<CharliefJohnson> Do we expect Hardy Heron to contain any GPLv3 code ??  
<Mithrandir> yes
<CharliefJohnson> The Intel legal beavers are asking.
<CharliefJohnson> Do we know what yet ?  There isn't any in Gutsy, right?
<Mithrandir> depending on how the usb-client spec is actually implemented, it'll use samba which is now GPLv3, at least newer major releases.
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir: i hadn't heard that samba had moved.  GPLv3 is cause great anxiety with Intel.
<mjg59> CharliefJohnson: Most code from the FSF will probably be GPLv3 by then. So that includes things like our C compiler.
<Mithrandir> CharliefJohnson: http://news.samba.org/announcements/samba_gplv3/ , so that changed two months ago.
<mjg59> Not shipping GPLv3 code really isn't an option for us
<rustyl> or any other linux distribution for that matter
<agoliveira> +1
<Mithrandir> we'll have to learn how GPLv3 and GPLv2 interacts (or doesn't), though
<CharliefJohnson> mjg59: I realize that.  I need to make it clear to the powers that be however.  
<ToddBrandt> CharliefJohnson: I've included some code in moblin-applets that's GPL2+, does that plus mean anything I should be worried about?
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir: Gutsy has no GPLv3, correct?
<Mithrandir> ToddBrandt: you can treat GPLv2+ as GPLv2 just fine.
* ToddBrandt says phew... *wipes his brow*
<Mithrandir> CharliefJohnson: I honestly don't know.
<mjg59> CharliefJohnson: I think it would be difficult for us to absolutely commit to that, given the quantity of software we have
<Mithrandir> well, binutils is GPL-3
<Mithrandir> so we clearly have GPLv3 code in gutsy.
<CharliefJohnson> Was that in the license list you sent me a while back?
<Mithrandir> I don't remember, but as I noted in that list, it was a snapshot of what was in gutsy at that time, not what would be in the released version
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir: I need an updated license list.  Can you send me a new one for Gutsy?   This is more of a business issue, and I can take this offline for now.
<Mithrandir> ok.
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir: Can you record an action to send me an updated license list for Gutsy?
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  tfheen to send CharliefJohnson updated list of licences for UME components.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tfheen to send CharliefJohnson updated list of licences for UME components. 
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir, : thanks!
<Mithrandir> CharliefJohnson: did you get your question about app statuses answered?
<agoliveira> I was waiting for my turn.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: heh, sure
<CharliefJohnson> Casual Games were to be  chosen and uploaded by today.  Did that happen?
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  App status
<MootBot> New Topic:  App status 
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: please go ahead
* ToddBrandt wonders if we can add gnome-games to the moblin build, he has been using sudoku alot on his Samsung
<agoliveira> Ok, from the top, I aways try to keep the applications page on the wiki updated so you can aways check there anytime.
<agoliveira> About the applications themselves:
<agoliveira> The last few days we had added hildonized galculator and Evince.
<agoliveira> Also hildonized, of course.
<agoliveira> I made a series of tests with games and I choose a few the results are:
<agoliveira> 3D Games: Foobillard, Neverball and Neverputt, Supertux and Planet Penguin Racer - Very easy, they are there yet and as they run fullscreen, no adaptations are needed.  
<agoliveira> 2D games: Frozen Bubble, aisleriot, blackjack, gnometris, gnome-sudoku and gnomine. The problem here is that they will need hildonization with exception of Frozen Bubble.
<CharliefJohnson> agoliveira: I don't have the URL for that in front of me.  Has the list of identified apps on the wiki page?  Not just the list of possibilities - be which were choosen.
<agoliveira> I just sent the list
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: I don't think we need that many games?  3-4 in total should be ok, I'd say.
<agoliveira> All those games are already availble so pick them :)
<amitk> agoliveira: all of them are hildonized?
<Mithrandir> you've looked at them, so it's better if you give your assessment.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I would include them all as long as I can hildonize the interfaces of the 2D games. You are asking to limit :)
<agoliveira> amitk: No, this needs to be done for some of the 2D games
<agoliveira> and gaming is a matter of taste so, if I has to chose, say 4, I would do:
<agoliveira> 3D: Foobillard, Neverball and Neverputt (they are the same)
<agoliveira> 2D: Frozen bubble and gnome-suduku
<ToddBrandt> Isecond the sudoku vote
<bspencer> I've played with Neverball and it works pretty good, with some small tweaks
<agoliveira> I mean, gnome-sudoku
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: yes, I'm saying you should pick a total of 3 or 4.
<agoliveira> I also checked some of the games already ported for maemo but they usually make use of the hardware keys which would add another problem for us so I just left them aside for now.
<Mithrandir> sounds fine, then, and we'll start with those
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Fine to me.
<Mithrandir> to what extent do they need changes?
<agoliveira> One can just add on the fsets. They are already built.
<Mithrandir> ok, and gnome-sudoku for instance is already hildonised?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: just the gnome-sudoku needs hildonization but it's fairly simple
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I can have it done as soon as I finish my current tasks, say monday
<Mithrandir> ok, but the rest are either fullscreen or already hildonised for lpia?
<agoliveira> Fullscreen
<Mithrandir> ok, thanks.
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir:  Can we have an action to update the wiki/blueprint to clear identify which apps have been chosen for UME.  Similar to that table I sent out last week.   
<agoliveira> IS that satisfactory for all of you?
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  agoliveira to update wiki with what applications have been chosen
<MootBot> ACTION received:  agoliveira to update wiki with what applications have been chosen 
<agoliveira> No problem.
<Mithrandir> ok, anybody got any more business?
<agoliveira> Im' fine.
<bspencer> one note
<bspencer> tomorrow, this same time, kwwii and I will discuss UI
* agoliveira boos bspencer
<bspencer> on this channel
<bspencer> fyi
<Mithrandir> sounds good
<bspencer> that's all
<kwwii> so everyone stay away from your computers at this time tomorrow
<kwwii> :p
<Mithrandir> heh
<agoliveira> kwwii: BTW, I need to talk to you for a few minutes, can we?
<Mithrandir> meeting adjourned.
<Mithrandir> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:01.
<kwwii> agoliveira: sure
<bspencer> agoliveira: in US "boos" is a positive thing ;)
<Mithrandir> thanks everybody.
<Mithrandir> HappyCamp: how's the sponsorship process working for you?
<agoliveira> bspencer: Really? :) You americans are weird :)
<bspencer> agoliveira: oh wait, that was booze
<sodarock_home> Mithrandir: Okay.  But I have to work with our guys to get stuff pushed into Gutsy to make sure I progress faster.
<kwwii> agoliveira: how can I be of service?
<agoliveira> kwwii: Can you gifve me 5 min? Ana just came in with my coffee :)
<kwwii> agoliveira:  sure but in 15 I am going to run to the store
<kwwii> agoliveira: or we can talk in about half an hour when I get back
<agoliveira> kwwii: Are you comming back?
<kwwii> yepp
<agoliveira> deal
<kwwii> ok, see you soon
<agoliveira> kwwii: Ping me when you get back
<bspencer_> agoliveira, I saw you said we had "galculator"
<agoliveira> bspencer_: I saw a galculator on the image but not hildonized.
<bspencer_> we hildonized galculator
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Really? I thought we agreed that Intel would contact me before any application chenges so we don't have duplicated efforts.
<agoliveira> changes
<kwwii> agoliveira: ping
<agoliveira> kwwii: Yo. Actually it's a quite simple request. I need to know what's the ume theme status.
<kwwii> agoliveira: I am still waiting to be able to test it
<kwwii> agoliveira: I have a first test theme ready
<kwwii> agoliveira: the most work at this point needs to be done on the colors in the gtkrc
<kwwii> and this is nasty "edit, check what changed, edit again" work
<agoliveira> kwwii: Is there anything I can pack?
<kwwii> agoliveira: nope, I have a package ready, actually
<agoliveira> kwwii: Does it work in some form? If so, please, upload it.
<kwwii> but until I can test the gtkrc in a decent way the font colors are somewhat unreadable in parts
<kwwii> agoliveira: the package builds but you cannot install it because we are missing parts
<kwwii> parts of code, not of the theme
<agoliveira> kwwii: Is anyone working on this?
<kwwii> bspencer_ said that he would see to this stuff this week
<kwwii> I have kinda been waiting for two weeks on this
<kwwii> so I worked on a few icons in the meantime
<kwwii> tha tis something else we will need to do
<kwwii> branch the tango set and start modifying it for our needs
<agoliveira> kwwii: Cool. Actually it was Matt who asked me to make a report about the status of things.
<agoliveira> I mean UME things.
<agoliveira> kwwii: Thanks.
<kwwii> agoliveira: great, I really hope we can start moving forward on this soon
<Mithrandir> Sciri: can you add set -x to the top of /usr/share/ume-config-common/ume-gui-start and repaste your .xsession-errors?
<Sciri> Mithrandir: OK, will do...
<Mithrandir> thanks
<Sciri> Mithrandir: One unrelated note...I've found with the broken kernel if you reboot enough times it eventually comes up...I'm running an image built this morning.
<Mithrandir> Sciri: ok, useful to know.
<Sciri> Mithrandir: OK, the new pastelog is at http://paste.debian.net/37032 (Fresh reboot. X came up but nm-applet did not load so I manually ran nm-applet to bring up the network).
<Sciri> Mithrandir: Also, on this fresh image (samsung with proprietary) I have root privs back to the Control Panels work; just no nm-applet running at boot.
<Sciri> *so the Control Panels work
<Mithrandir> Sciri: can you change the echo in the line going for START in $(echo ... into ls?
<Mithrandir> so it turns into for START in $(ls /etc/xdg/autostart/*.desktop /usr/share/autostart/*.desktop /usr/share/gnome/autostart/*.desktop | sort -u | grep -v "*"); do
<Sciri> ls or ls -1?
<Mithrandir> doesn't matter.
<Sciri> OK...
<Mithrandir> actually, wait a sec
<Mithrandir> for START in $(find /etc/xdg/autostart/ /usr/share/autostart/ /usr/share/gnome/autostart/ -name \*.desktop); do
<Mithrandir> is what the line should look like
<Sciri> Ooops...just rebooted. I'll change it to find when it comes back up...
<Mithrandir> thanks
<Mithrandir> and you can rm ~ume/.xsession-errors too
<Mithrandir> since it's appended to
<Sciri> Already did...
<Sciri> Oh...ls worked. I have nm-applet and Bluetooth in the status bar at boot now...should I still change it to find?
<Mithrandir> well, it's going to be find in the next upload, but feel free to have it be ls, ls should be fine as well
<Sciri> Great, I'll switch it to find so it matches what will be in the next package release.
<Sciri> Any ETA on when that build will fire so we can update our target?
<smagoun> Anyone have dates installed? 0.4.3-1ubuntu2 segfaults for me, is that expected?
<agoliveira> smagoun: Last time I tried worked fine. Can you open a bug please?
<Mithrandir> Sciri: new ume-config-common uploaded, so it should be available in a bit less than two hours, I hope
<Sciri> Mithrandir: 
<Sciri> Mithrandir: Outstanding
<Mithrandir> Sciri: sorry it took a bit, I was on a conference call
<Sciri> No worries! :)
<agoliveira> I'm leaving on cue today, no overtime because I'm doing some cooking classes :) If you need anything email me and I'll check it out later. Bye!
<bspencer> kwwii, sleeping?
<kwwii> bspencer: not quite yet
<kwwii> wassup?
<bspencer> you da man!
<bspencer> quick question you might know
<kwwii> sure, shoot away
<bspencer> we have this simple app which sets the color of buttons manually
<kwwii> so it has it's own gtkrc
<bspencer> gtk_widget_modify_bg(buttonPkg->button2, GTK_STATE_NORMAL, &color)
<bspencer> but this gets overridden by the theme
<bspencer> is it possible to say "don't use the theme, I'm smarter"
<bspencer> if I remove the env var that points to the theme  (e.g. GTKRC....) then it keeps our color, otherwise it overrides it
<bspencer> (remove the env variable in a terminal before I start our app)
<bspencer> this was a common problem that other apps guys were saying (like media player) when they would try to set the background to a specific color that was different than the theme.   (maybe htis is a taboo thing to do)
<kwwii> I think there should be a way to point to an app specific gtkrc, but I have no idea how
<bspencer> ok.  I'll google for that
<bspencer> at least an app specific gtkrc for /some/ things, and then use the parent gtkrc for others.
<kwwii> exactly, whatever is defined in the app specific gtkrc overides the system stuff, otherwise the rest is left along
<kwwii> alone
<bspencer> cool.  I found some references.  I'll try it.
<kwwii> btw I had a long talk with tango people
<bspencer> ah
<kwwii> I know how to deal with the icon theme now
<kwwii> but kyle will not like it :-)
<kwwii> and they are intersted in helping us where possible
<kwwii> but more on that tomorrow
<bspencer> ha ha.  yes.  looking forward to more info tom.
<bspencer> thanks.  the brain implant we put in your head seems to work to notify you when you are summoned.
<kwwii> hehe, it is the loud "ping" that happens when someone mentions my nick
<bspencer> working from home has its disadvantages
<kwwii> in the meantime, my son says "papa, someone is talking to you!"
<DAmm2> Are there screenshots of recent daily builds? I have a Samsung Q1 and I'm very anxious to see how it looks
<kwwii_> although working from the SUSE office wasn't much better, I just spent more time an hour away from home
<kwwii_> netsplit, what fun
<kwwii> finally time for sleep...see you tomorrow
<bspencer> kwwii, see ya.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-09-08
<ALoGeNo> hi
<Guillaum3> greets. where can i find a list of mobile devices that support ubuntu ?
<Guillaum3> all i've seen so far was on the HTC Shift
<Guillaum3> beeing an HTC fan, i loved that bit of news. but what else?
<amitk> Guillaum3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/FAQ
<lool> One quick fix for people with the upstart session issue is to remove openvt and redirect to/from /dev/tty7
<lool> exec su -l ubuntu -c ... </dev/tty7 >/dev/tty7 2>&1
<lool> Wouah "dpkg: serious warning: files list file for package `bash-completion' missing, assuming package has no files currently installed
<lool> Same for libgucharmap6 and libcdio7
<ogra> out of diskspace ? 
<lool> ogra: Argh I hope not
<lool> StevenK, persia_: I'm not sure it's worth researching the mbf issue right now
<StevenK> lool: Hmm?
<lool> StevenK, persia_: I straced hildon-desktop to see whether mbf was reading .menu and .desktop files, but it hangs in gconf
<lool> Doing rename()s and unlink()s on .gconfd files
<lool> I think we're hit by the same unionfs issue
<StevenK> Ah
<StevenK> So we probably want to wait for the new kernel
<lool> Yes
<StevenK> lool: Is it uploaded?
<lool> The kernel is, but it failed to build naturally
<StevenK> Now it's needs building
<ian_brasil> hi..anyone now how to query power policy manager for the current active policies?
<lool> ogra: Hey did you setup a bzr branch with scripts?
<ogra> not yet, no
<lool> I have a couple here which might be in the same vein as the one you posted on the wiki
<ogra> how about creating a branch for the team ? 
<lool> ogra: Yup
<lool> persia_: Just for the record, I managed to boot the current ubuntu-mid image with unionfs and the i386 kernel
<lool> StevenK: So I think I found the issue with mbf's menu
<lool> StevenK: It uses a bogus name for the preferneces menu
<lool> And it does something really stupid when it doesn't find one
<lool>         context->cat_table = g_hash_table_new (g_str_hash, g_str_equal);
<lool>         context->cat_table = set_up_cat_table (context, APPLICATIONS_MENU);
<lool>         context->cat_table = set_up_cat_table (context, PREFERENCES_MENU);
<lool> set_up_cat_table() returns NULL on error
<lool>   root = xmlDocGetRootElement (doc);
<lool>   if (NULL == root)
<lool>     return NULL;
<lool> ...
<lool> StevenK: Actually it wasn't renamed, it's just in a different package
<lool> Wow the file is only there on my desktop and not on lpia
<lool> StevenK: So it's actually a gnome-menus upstream issue; we didn't notice because the conffile wasn't removed on upgrades, but it was dropped from the package
<lool> Or it was removed upstream and not properly in the packaging
<lool> Anyway, mbf should use settings.menu now
<davidm> lool, I can test using my Q1 again, power supply arrived, yea.
<lool> davidm: Good news!
<lool> davidm: And the images are about to be fixed too!
<davidm> Very good news, now all we need are working images and an installer. ;-)
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-09-09
<StevenK> lool: So mbf needs a patch?
<lool> StevenK: Your inbox has one
<lool> And I'm in bed
<StevenK> Woot
 * StevenK hadn't quite got to his ubuntu mail yet
<slytherin> Anyone with enough knowledge of bluetooth so as to comment on current state of bluez stack in intrepid?
<persia> slytherin: It's up-to-date for 3.x excepting bluez-gnome, which is fairly heavily patched.  I looked at moving to 0.28 last month, but think it might be easier to cherrypick stuff from upstream rather than merge all the Ubuntu patches forward at this point.
<persia> I've tested it for comms with a couple phones, and organised some testing for other phones that had problems mine didn't expose.  It seems to be working.  I've not tested bluetooth input or bluetooth printing.
<slytherin> persia: The bluetooth package seems to be slpit in different binary packages. Some of which are in universe, like bluez-input, bluez-network. I was wondering if anyone is working on moving them to main and having installed by default.
<persia> slytherin: Not as far as I know, although to be honest, I mostly work on universe flavours.  You probably want to talk to the Desktop team.
<persia> They would be the ones to decide if it ought be installed on the Desktop by default (which is what most people mean by "installed by default".
<slytherin> persia: I will talk with StevenK who is last uploader
<persia> slytherin: If you like :)  I was involved in that upload.
<slytherin> persia: In my opinion at least input service is essential. Sadly I don't have any bluetooth mouse to do any tests. :-(
<persia> slytherin: I suspect it's about CD space.  There's arguments over as little as a megabyte sometimes.
<persia> Truly, if you want it on the CD, you'll do best to talk to the Desktop folk, regardless of the fact that it tends to be touched by Mobile people.
<slytherin> persia: I doubt that space is a concern because these were part of standard bluez stack previously. Only recently they have been split as plugins. So it must be only few KBs of overhead.
<persia> slytherin: It may just be oversight then, but it's the Desktop team that controls the Desktop seed: nothing we can do :)
<slytherin> persia: And what I don't understand is why those packages in universe in the first place. I will file a bug to move them to main.
<persia> If there is something specifically buggy about the packages, we'd like to help, as there are a number of critical use cases for MIDs and subnotebooks for bluetooth.
<persia> slytherin: They are probably in universe because nothing in main depends on them.  If you want to move them to main, remember to follow the MIR process.
<slytherin> persia: The reason nothing in main depends on them is because the packages were non-existent in hardy. Do I really need MIR? They come from same source. bluez-audio is in main which also comes form same source.
<persia> Sometimes if the source is in main, you don't need an MIR: it depends on why the binary is in universe.  For the situation you describe, it sounds like a regression from hardy to keep them in universe, and so they ought be seeded, or recommended, or something.
<persia> The desktop team can help you understand if they ought be included, and help get them in the right place.
<slytherin> persia: They out to be in 'recommended' for bluez-utils. I will file a bug so discussion happen there.
<persia> slytherin: Could you subscribe me to the bug?  I'd be interested in following the conversation.
<slytherin> persia: sure
<ogra_> the question is if there is space on the CD :)
<persia> Please also point the Desktop team at the bug, as they may not see it otherwise, and it ought get sorted pre-Alpha6
<slytherin> sure
<ogra_> if you add them as recommends it will be pulled on the CD so one should determine the size that eats for such a proposal
<StevenK> slytherin: I know next to nothing about bluetooth, and have no plans to get it promoted
<slytherin> ogra_: few KBs. Will let you exact size once I am done with filing bug
<ogra> slytherin, just add that info to the bug (also dont forget to look for deps they might pull in)
<slytherin> ha ha ha, the guy who split the packages i from Dell - Mario Limonciello <mario_limonciello@dell.com> :-)
<persia> slytherin: You may also find him around as superm1, when he's not at Dell (and perhaps wearing his "Leader of Mythbuntu" hat).
<slytherin> superm1 is about to become core dev right?
<persia> He has submitted an application.
<slytherin> persia: if you are interested we can work on bluez-gnome update over weekend.
<persia> slytherin: I'm interested, but I'm just not sure the upstream fixes are valuable enough to break FF, and haven't dug through them enough to verify they don't break FF.
<slytherin> persia: 0.28 is the last release corresponding to bluez-utils 3.x series. Since it is unlikely that we will pull bluez 4.x in, it is better to get bluez-gnome updated.
<persia> slytherin: That was precisely my thinking last month :)
<slytherin> Let's do it then. :-D
<persia> OK.  Catch me saturday then.
<slytherin> sure
<slytherin> persia: What are your views about asking FF for bluez-firmware package? It was never synced from Debian. It has 'can-distribute' binary blobs for some broadcom bluetooth chipsets. Theer are few bugs in LP asking for that package.
<persia> slytherin: I actually don't have any devices that need it, nor any specific feelings one way or the other.
<persia> If we don't provide the firmware somewhere else, it's probably worth checking with MOTU Release if it can go in multiverse, assuming the devices are prevalent.
<persia> I very much doubt it is suitable for restricted, as there's *lots* of hardware out there that doesn't require special firmware.
<slytherin> persia: I am not qualified to decide where it should go. Anyway, should I send a mail to motu-release list?
<persia> No.  If you can't catch a member in #ubuntu-motu, send it to ubuntu-motu@
<slytherin> hmm
 * slytherin looks up the list of members of motu-release team.
<persia> ogra: What does "(EE) config/hal: couldn't initialise context: (null) ((null))" mean to you?
<Celtiore> hi from france
<Celtiore> where can i find the 'how to' for the evtouch driver to calibrate touchscreen on aigo mid
<persia> Hey Celtiore.  How's the aigo working?
<Celtiore> fine
<persia> Well, except for the touchscreen :)
<Celtiore> wifi working now on 2.6.24.19-lpia
<persia> Cool.
<Celtiore> touchscreen is working now
<Celtiore> i just need to find how to calibrate it
<persia> Ah.  It's the same HOWTO as for any other evtouch, which basically means fiddle with the numbers until you get something that works.
<Celtiore> if someone can help me :)
<Celtiore> ok, but where can i find the SAME howto :) :)
<persia> The person working on getting evtouch data for calibration is usually in this channel, so there's a good chance of that, but he's away right now.
<persia> (or at least not responding to me: perhaps he'll be back in a moment)
<Celtiore> can you give me the nickname ?
<persia> http://www.conan.de/touchscreen/evtouch.html
<persia> It's ogra, but you might find someone else who also knows, so it's not likely best to repeatedly highlight just to ask the question.
<persia> Anyway, the trick is finding the right values for MinX, MinY, MaxX, and MaxY.  Aside from trial and error, or deep reading of techspecs, I don't know any way to accomplish this.
<persia> Once someone has done it, the results can be fed into an automatic calibrator.  The essential data are the output of lshal and the known working xorg.conf with the correct calibration.
<persia> There are some calibration tools, but from what I understand, they all work less than optimally, in different ways.
<Celtiore> yes
<Celtiore> the problem is : i install the calibration script
<Celtiore> but i can't finish correctly
<persia> Yes, that seems to be how the calibration tools generally work :)  I've not heard of any that work cleanly.
<GrueMaster> StevenK: Ping - Where is the kernel source for 2.6.24-18-lpia?  Do I need git or is tehre a tarball that can be downloaded for rebuilding/modifying?
<persia> GrueMaster: It's quite late there, but you might find some luck from http://archive.mobile.ubuntu.com/pool/um-hardy-updates/main/l/linux/
<persia> There's probably a git tree as well, but I don't happen to know the location.
<persia> Also, are you sure you want to play with 2.6.24-18 ?  I suspect that 2.6.24-21 is more interesting (as it matches the current download with -updates installed)
<GrueMaster> Not for me.  Someone is pinging me for it, and I am not at Intel anymore, so I don't have all my links.
<GrueMaster> Thanks, I passed it along.
<ian_brasil> are the long(er) term plans for UME to continue with Hildon (if not what are the thoughts about alternatives?) 
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-09-10
<StevenK> GrueMaster: It should be able to be dug up.
<ALoGeNo> hi
<persia> ALoGeNo: Hello.
<ALoGeNo> hey
<Celtiore> hi
<Celtiore> i need help :p
<Celtiore> ok ...
<Celtiore> how can i compile : http://stz-softwaretechnik.com/~ke/touchscreen/evtouch.html version 0.87 with kernel 2.6.24.19-lpia ?
<Celtiore> i think it's the only way to calibrate the touchscreen for aigo mid
<lool> apart of the fact the mouse doesn't work anymore or oddly, today's image brings up Xorg  \o/
<lool> and it has categories
<lool> and it has network and runs apt-get update without hanging
<lool> It's just dead slow for some reason
<lool> NM-applet doesn't come up all the time, but it doesn't crash for me
<ogra> lool, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xf86-input-evtouch/+bug/261873/comments/3 use that file in case you test on the Q1
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261873 in xf86-input-evtouch "make evtouch devices work with hal-input in intrepid" [High,Triaged] 
<ogra> for the mouse i think persia said he didnt see the psmouse module loaded, for a test you could dump it into /etc/modules
<lool> ogra: No, it's in kvm
<ogra> well, psmouse might help ...
<lool> Dunno what changed that broke kvm support so much; I think it's just very slow
<lool> ogra: psmouse?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> lsmod|grep psmouse
<lool> ogra: Another module is providing mouse support
<ogra> oh, riht, kvm has its own stuff like the vbox guest modules ... vbos falls back on ps2 emu though
<ogra> *vbox
<lool> ogra: You're running the dailies in vbox?
<ogra> nope, no vbox atm
<ogra> i didnt come around yet to fix the modules 
<lool> I wonder whether it will cause havoc if I use vbox with kvm installed and presumaly its modules loaded
<ogra> i dont think they clash
<ogra> but there are no vbox modules for 2.6.27-2 yet
<ogra> i updated them to -1 exactly the same day BenC uploaded -2 :(
<lool> ogra: Hey I think you forgot pushing your netbook-launcher-remix -> netbook-launcher rename in the packaging branch at ~netbook-remix-team/netbook-remix-launcher/ubuntu
<ogra> oh, i wasnt aware we have a branch for that 
<ogra> will push that 
<lool> ogra: Please retag 1.1-0ubuntu1 when done
<ogra> will do
<kunisch> anyone here with experience with the gm945 chipset ?
<venome> hi folks, has anyone of you tried running Moblin on a Geode platform (AMD)?
<venome> (or do you think that it'll work without having to compile all the projects by myself?
<rbelem> I ran ubuntu-mobile on geode
<ian_brasil> hey rbelem
<ian_brasil> is this still valid
<ian_brasil> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UMEGuide/ApplicationDevelopment/AnatomyOfUMEPythonApplication
<ian_brasil> the part about the Exec on the desktop files
<rbelem> ian_brasil, i think main.py should be in your pythonpath
<ian_brasil> so the part about applications living in /usr/share is no longer correct
<ian_brasil> package your python app into /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/
<ian_brasil> and in /usr/bin/<name_of_app> import the modules and call main
<rbelem> ian_brasil, your setup.py will install into the best place
<ian_brasil> and the desktop file like 1 [Desktop Entry] 
<ian_brasil> 2 Encoding=UTF-8 
<ian_brasil> 3 Name=ians_app
<ian_brasil> 4 Comment=My App
<ian_brasil> 5 Exec=ians_app
<rbelem> ian_brasil, Categories, Type, Terminal, StartupNotify are missing
<ian_brasil> right..this was just the top :)
<rbelem> ian_brasil, more info at http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/
<ian_brasil> thx
<rbelem> ;-)
<angel1603> Hey
<angel1603> I have a have a couple of questions
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-09-11
<lool> StevenK: Would you be tempted to update the langpacks in the ppa?
<StevenK> lool: Not really
<lool> ogra: perhaps?
<ogra> i never touched langpackas in my life 
<ogra> *packs
<lool> ogra: Perfect
<StevenK> I haven't either
<samjam> If you look on sernets log of todays irc you'll see someone has beeing talking about lang packs recently
<lool> ogra: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/ubuntu-mobile-ppa-langpacks.txt
<lool> ogra: The idea is to rescue data/mozilla.tar.gz in each langpack and carry it over in the new langpack from hardy-updates
<ogra> ah, k
<lool> ogra: I'd prefer someone else doing this this time around as to share kl
<lool> ogra: Oh you don't know about the archive.mobile.u.c archive, do you?
<ogra> not really, no
<lool> ogra: Can I give you a phone call?
<ogra> gimme a sec to install my new phone :) 
<lool> Ok, so I'll call landline I guess :)
<ogra> yeah, i got a DECT headset thingie
 * StevenK hugs his DECT phones
 * lool is tempted to replace is DECT phone
<lool> *his
<suihkulokki> landline? dect? did I enter a museum?
<lool> suihkulokki: Well my "landline" is connected to the DSL router which also provides SIP   :-P
<suihkulokki> ah
<ogra> lool, line is up
<lool> ogra: calling
<lool> Anyone with a webcam tempted to try out ekiga?
<ALoGeNo> what is ekiga?
<lool> video conferencing app
<ALoGeNo> oh okey :)
<persia> lool: Apparently the session upstart job has another race condition, and tends to start before hal, which causes issues with Xinput2 hotplug.  You had opinions about upstart vs. init.d in hardy.  Do you still hold them?  Do you see any issues moving this to an init script?
<lool> IRC meeting in one minute on #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> Does anyone happen to have an image up right now?  If so, could you share the contents of /etc/apt/sources.list?
<ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/45782/
<davidm> I do not
<ogra> edit_squashfs.sh ./ubuntu-mid.img is faaast :)
<persia> ogra: Thank you.  It's the directory I wasn't sure about, and I didn't want to run edit-image when I was already editing files in the VFAT.
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> edit-image needs to start using $(tmpdir)
<ogra> that way it wont clash
<persia> Well, also, what happens when you've two different tools editing the same files in two different locations from the same loopmount?
<persia> It's just chancy.
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> first push to lp:~ubuntu-mobile-dev/ubuntu-mobile/mobile-scripts done :)
<lool> ogra: please drop fusa from mobile :)
<ogra> good
<ogra> ah, sorry, used wrong channel 
<persia> Why should fusa be dropped from mobile?  Imagine the case where a couple shares a subnotebook...
<ogra> by default it will have the ubuntu user
<ogra> they are free to install it if tehy go away from the default setup
<persia> OK.  Makes sense.
<ian_brasil> i tried to change .gtkrc-2.0 to show the blondie theme as opposed to mobilebasic ...is there something else i need to do?
<ian_brasil> ah, ok there is no index.theme
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-09-12
<ian_brasil> hi
<ian_brasil> if anyone is still awake ;) 
<ian_brasil> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/25ume-config-common_startup
<ian_brasil> used to export the the GTK2_RC_FILES environment variables for Gtk+2 widget themes here as follows: 
<ian_brasil> export GTK2_RC_FILES=/usr/share/themes/proview/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:/usr/share/themes/proview/gtk-2.0/gtkrc.maemo_af_desktop
<ian_brasil> oops ...even export GTK2_RC_FILES=/usr/share/themes/mobilebasic/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:/usr/share/themes/mobilebasic/gtk-2.0/gtkrc.maemo_af_desktop
<ian_brasil> it no longer does this and i wondered why
<StevenK> ian_brasil: On Intrepid?
<ian_brasil> no hardy
<StevenK> The theme is set in gconf
<StevenK> (For both Hardy and Intrepid
<ian_brasil> so you do not override in  /usr/share/ume-config-common/ume-gui-start in matchbox /usr/bin/matchbox-window-manager \
<ian_brasil>     -theme /usr/share/themes/mobilebasic/matchbox/theme.xml \
<ian_brasil> StevenK: ok thx..i will look at gconf
<StevenK> ian_brasil: It's set in the moblin-applets postinst, for some reason.
<ian_brasil> yikes
<crevette> hi there 
<crevette> does someone plan to upgrade bluez-gnome to 0.28 ?If not I can try to ask a Feature Exception
<persia> crevette: Some of us have thought about it, and we're planning to look at the code again tomorrow.  Is there something specific about 0.28 that you need?
<crevette> no appart to stick to the latest bluez-gnome
<crevette> I think it should be pretty dsafe as new changes happens in bluez 4 now
<crevette> I preparing a pbuilder env to build it
<persia> crevette: I've built it.  Builds fine.
<crevette> okay
<crevette> do you have a deb to test it ?
<persia> If you want a local copy, I'd recommend basing of the debian packaging, as that applies without any editing.  If you use the Ubuntu packaging, you'll need to revert some patches (as the Ubuntu upstream tarball is older)
<crevette> ah I didn't look to debian package :/
<cgregan> davmor2: ping
<davmor2> cgregan: pong
<cgregan> How's your afternoon going?
<davmor2> Quite at the moment why (think Chris is sounding ominous)
<cgregan> muahahahah
<ogra> yeah, he has this looong list of tasks for you :P
<davmor2> see how I knew ;)
<ogra> heh
 * ogra was joking :)
<cgregan> davmor2: I was cleaning up the UME case area and the installation area needed updating for Intrepid
<cgregan> I deleted all the MIC/Xephyr stuff
<cgregan> But the KVM area needs to be altered so it refers to the correct repos
<cgregan> Since you put that section together...could you get the info to update it?
<cgregan> Not too long of a list :-)
<davmor2> Yes no probs sticking with KVM this round then :)
<cgregan> Yes...the current images already support KNM boot
<cgregan> KVM
<cgregan> So we might even be able to shorten the process
<cgregan> Like..install KVM...point to latest image from cdimage and go
<davmor2> I'll have a play with it this afternoon and see what I come up with then :)
<cgregan> Sweet! Thanks
<cgregan> Next! now serving.....lool: ping
<cgregan> :-)
 * davmor2 lool: don't answer it's a trick ;)
<cgregan> hey...no fair davmor2! :-)
<cgregan> I have lool's home phone number..so he will have to answer eventually! ;-)
<cgregan> I also have a man inside his house I bribed with soft cuddly things.....he is still in diapers, but I'm sure he'd back me up.
<davmor2> :D
<lool> cgregan: Ah I don't see the pings in the form "blah lool: ping"; try "lool: ping" to get my attention  ;)
<lool> cgregan: How may I help?
<davmor2> lool: foolish mortal
<lool> Yup, that's me
<davmor2> you've fallen for his trick
<lool> Either that or the guy with the diapers would have taken over my office
<davmor2> :)
<davmor2> cgregan: just a quick double check the latest images are the ones in mid correct?
<cgregan> davmor2: correct
 * persia updates the /topic
<davmor2> np's 
<persia> Oh, I already did that :)
<cgregan> lool: Do we have a list of what apps are being ripped out or replaced in Intrepid? I do not want to get overzealous with my wiki updates
<lool> cgregan: We didn't build such a list; I think we might rip down more apps down the road to the release
<lool> cgregan: We mostly care about functionality such as chat, web browsing, email
<cgregan> lool: And they are moving to the mozilla stack?
<lool> cgregan: hmm why is that?
<cgregan> Well...we had that discussion of TB
<cgregan> figured there might be a move to Firefox as well
 * davmor2 download the latest image
<persia> cgregan: The current images use midbrowser, TB, and pidgin.
<persia> Firefox was there, but it's a beast on smaller hardware, and not very UI-efficient.
<persia> (so we pulled it today)
<cgregan> persia: Ok....was wondering 
<persia> cgregan: Understandably: it's been an effort to get anything even vaguely inspectable, so most of the changes have only been visible on the seeds, which isn't very visible.
<persia> Please try an image: if there's an app you want added or removed, it's worth discussion.
<cgregan> persia: Will do
<cgregan> thanks all
<ian_brasil> i downloaded the current image last night and i can get to the UI in kvm but there X freezes..is this known issue or shall i file a bug?
<ogra> freezes ?
<ogra> how ? 
<persia> ian_brasil: It's actually not frozen, it's just not accepting any input.
<ogra> there is a known bug with X starting before hal
<ogra> right
<persia> There's a race condition with starting X.  Switch to a different VT, and run `sudo stop session; sudo start session` to get it working.
<persia> This ought be sorted in the next image.
<ian_brasil> persia: cool, thx
<ian_brasil> images are created daily right?
<persia> ian_brasil: There is an automated process to create them daily, and sometimes additional images are created if there is some reason it's worth while.
<persia> There are two images for 20080912 for example, because 20080912 had a build failure, so 20080912.1 was created to test some other things.
<ian_brasil> persia: ok cool..there seems to be lots of new goodies to play with in the image anyway :)
<persia> ian_brasil: You mean that it works?
<persia> Also, which image do you have?  20080911, 20080912, or 20080912.2 ?
<ian_brasil> i mean that i can see the UI with what looks like lots of new stuff to play but it is not working no..i have 20080912.2
<ian_brasil> if this is current on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mid/intrepid/current/
<ian_brasil> using ogras script i  get this error
<ian_brasil> cp: writing `/tmp/image/casper/filesystem.squashfs': No space left on device
<persia> How much extra stuff did you add?
<ian_brasil> i just did a dist-upgrade
<persia> There's only about 20G free, minus the preseed files, the kernel, and other miscellaneous bits.
<persia> Hrm.  That oughtn't make it that much bigger :(
<persia> Maybe do an `apt-get clean` afterwards?  It may be that your /var/cache/apt/archives directory contains a bunch of files.
<ian_brasil> ok
<persia> If that doesn't work, you'll need a bigger VFAT in which to put it.  This can be done, but it's a little trickier.
<ogra> persia, 20G ?
<ogra> you mean s/G/M
<persia> Erm.  20M !
<ogra> we should make that 100M
 * persia probably needs to be a little more diurnal
<persia> I was thinking we might hardcode at 510M so we can know we fit on 512M sticks, and then try to have as much space left over as possible.
<ogra> where are we at not ? 
<ogra> *now
<ogra> 480M ?
<persia> 20080912.1 is 570M, but it's too big.
<ogra> woah
<persia> Yeah.  Needs more trimming.
<ogra> my last downloaded one has 419M
<ogra> 2008-08-28 though
<persia> I suspect that doesn't have the installer.  Note that we're currently shipping fvwm1, so there's plenty of stuff we neither want nor use to drop.
<ogra> fvwm1 o_O
<ogra> who seelcted that ? 
<persia> Also, it's worth considering if we really want to ship *all* of openoffice.org
<persia> I've not tracked it down yet: it's not seeded, but comes from the package relations.  It's surely a bug.
<ogra> ah, i thought it was the WM we use 
<ian_brasil> what happened to trebuet ..the open office loader?
<ogra> seems not to be in the archive 
<persia> ian_brasil: Currently we're shipping both treb and oo.o.
<persia> ian_brasil: From what I understand, this isn't entirely intentional, but just a side effect of some other changes that happened in intrepid that also affect us.
<persia> ogra: If you have time, take a look at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mid/intrepid/20080912.1/ubuntu-mid.manifest to see if anything else strikes you as odd.
<persia> I'm sure you'll end up with similar things for -mobile.
<ogra> once i have images i'll do a huge cleanup
<persia> Can you not construct images still?  I know they aren't automated, but what's blocking local creation?
<ogra> though i want to stick as close o -desktop as i can with -mobile
<ogra> to much other stuff on my todo ... i'll probably build one on the weekend
<persia> In that case, I think you'll want to create a CD image, and use evand's tool to generate USB images.
<ogra> i need to prepare the patches for steven as well
<persia> Should be minor: it's just another flavour, and not arch-specific or anything.
<ogra> right
<ogra> but i dont want a CD image 
<persia> Well, livecd-rootfs doesn't generate a CD image: it only generates a squashfs.  Wrapping that into a VFAT image is fairly easy (as your scriot demonstrates).
<ogra> right
<ogra> but i want to use the same tool
<persia> I suspect it's a 5 line change to livecd-rootfs to allow generation of -mobile images, after which you just need a wrapper.
<ogra> right
<ogra> wrapper -> one if or case statement to stevens build script
<ogra> to use a different size for the vfat and the other names
<persia> Actually, if you're planning to update that script, I'd recommend just appending, or doing a loop, rather than using if or case.
<persia> Unless you think you'll have a significant use case for a different frequency of image generation.
<ogra> i dont
<ogra> but i will need a bigger vfat
<persia> It's currently calculated as squashfs size + constant, so you get that for free as long as nobody decides to take my thoughts about 512M sticks seriously.
<ogra> i'd like to make 800M ones
<ogra> so people can esily modify 
<ogra> i dont expect my squashfs to be bigger than the liveCD one though
<persia> I'm tempted by your idea of just increasing the buffer to ~100M or so, rather than using hardcoded sizes.
<ogra> if that works ill enhance my image editor to a synaptics wrapper ;)
<persia> Probably good for both images (although downloading 100M of empty space will annoy some people)
<ogra> so you can just call it with --gui and have synaptics spawned inside the squashfs 
<persia> Are you really expecting a lot of people to need image modifications?  Why not just install it?
<ogra> well, its only me toying around ... but synaptic is inside the image anyway, so why not have a point and click option 
<ogra> its tirvial :)
<persia> I guess, but I think you're building the best buggy-whip ever with that sort of thing.  Cool, but ultimately not that useful.
<StevenK> I agree. 100M of empty space is excessive.
<StevenK> 30M *maybe*, but not 100M
<persia> Essentially, the only use case I see for modified images is for 1) more aggressive preseeding for factory installs or 2) adding a couple extra bits to get networking post-install.
<ogra> rebranding is another one
<ogra> there are at least three hackish solutions to modify the live iso in a gui way
<persia> ogra: One feature I'd like to see in the script is an apt-get clean: it allows users to apt-get update rather than rsyncing a new image.
<ogra> if possible i'd like to prevent that 
<ogra> yeah, apt-get clean should be added ... 
<ogra> feel free to change in the bzr branch :)
<persia> People keep encouraging me to do stuff instead of pointing stuff out ...
<persia> :)
<persia> And the wiki too?  Is that up-to-date?  Have you set it to automatcially pull from bzr head?
<persia> Where's the code in bzr?
<ogra> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile-dev/ubuntu-mobile/mobile-scripts
<ogra> image-tools subdir
<ogra> can the wiki pull from bzr ? 
 * ogra didnt know 
<ogra> i wanted to simlply point to LP to the branch
<persia> I believe moin can include an arbitrary URL
<ogra> though i think lool wanted to have the scripts packaged at some point
<persia> Might as well toss that one in ubuntu-dev-tools, no?
<ogra> i think he meant to have a ubuntu-mobile-scripts package once we have a collection in that branch
<ogra> or ubuntu-mobile-dev-scripts
<persia> Do you think we'll have enough of them?
<ogra> stevens build wrapper 
<ogra> loic has some casper modifying scripts 
<ogra> i might add some to mine as well 
<ogra> actually i'd like to have various frontend scripts using the current one for different modifications
<persia> I think the build wrapper belongs in livecd-rootfs along with the CD build wrapper, although given the timing, I don't mind it not being there for intrepid.
<ogra> well, not for intrepid anyway
<ogra> for now we have the branch and should go on collecting them there
<persia> I think the casper-modifying scripts belong to the set of lore devoted to modifying liveCDs (and live images), rather than being mobile specfic.
<ogra> in jaunty we should review the branch and do a cleanup
<persia> Well, I'm not going to complain about revision control and public source :)  Still, I don't think it ought be collected as a package.
<ogra> lets see 
<ogra> nothing we need to decide now :)
<persia> http://paste.ubuntu.com/46294/ look right to you?
<ogra> i would put it into a separate chroot call and line 
<ogra> for better readability 
<ogra> oh
<ogra> heh
<ogra> yes, looks good to me 
 * ogra saw a - where none is 
<ogra> i should stop for the day 
<ogra> susie is also starting to look unpleased ... 
<ian_brasil> I am trying to turn accessibility on in gconf but it is not working
<ian_brasil> root@lawrence:/# gconftool-2 --type bool --set /desktop/gnome/accessibility/enable true
<ian_brasil> root@lawrence:/# gconftool --get /desktop/gnome/interface/accessibility 
<ian_brasil> false
<ian_brasil> any ideas?
<ogra> ian_brasil, do you try that in the chroot ? 
<ogra> that wont work ... 
<ogra> gconftool expects a running gconfd 
<ian_brasil> i am inside the chroot
<ogra> if you want a system setting use a file in /usr/share/gconf/defaults/
<ogra> echo '/desktop/gnome/accessibility/enable "true"' >/usr/share/gconf/defaults/65-a11y
<ogra> then run update-gconf-defaults in the chroot
<ogra> ahyway, really out now ... susie moans ...
<persia> ian_brasil: You'll really need to do that in the booted system, rather than in the image.
<ian_brasil> persia: why is that?
<persia> ian_brasil: Because you're not running the daemons in the image, so you don't have the right environment for the tools.  I suppose you could start and stop the daemons manually, or manually adjust the gconf settings DB, but neither of those are at all easy.
<ian_brasil> persia: the apt-get clean worked and i have a new image..the apt-get dist-upgrade has also solved the X problem
<persia> ian_brasil: Excellent news.  I'd tested that locally, but hadn't gone back since it was uploaded.
<persia> What HW are you using?
<ian_brasil> i am using kvm
<persia> Oh well.  Usability testing only then.  I've yet to hear of anyone testing the new images on HW other than the Samsung, and was curious how the new Xinput stuff worked for special keys and the like.
<persia> I know the X team has been focusing on getting all the special function keys working for laptops, but I've not heard of much effort to set the right keymappings for MID-type function keys (not that there are so many MIDs available: mostly UMPCs and netbooks)
<ian_brasil> ha ha..clicking on the terminal brings up time and date!
<persia> For me it was launching Thunderbird.  There's something funny with the terminal.
<persia> One workaround is to use ctrl-alt-1 and then type "sendkey ctrl-alt-f2" to get a different VT.
<persia> (or maybe it's ctrl-alt-2 on the host keyboard : I forget exactly, as I usually use -monitor stdio)
<ian_brasil> persia: what is  -monitor stdio ?
<kadakas> Will Ubuntu mobile work for HTC P4350 smartphone?
<ian_brasil> kadakas: from the FAQ link at the top
<ian_brasil> Ubuntu does not currently provide ARM binaries for any flavour. Although the Ubuntu MID flavour currently has some optimisations for the "lpia" architecture, one of the goals of the MobileTeam is to develop architecture-neutral solutions. Some people and groups have compiled portions of Ubuntu for ARM processors with a fair degree of success, but there is no firm expectation that any Ubuntu flavour will work on an ARM-based devi
<ian_brasil> ce at this time.
<kadakas> thank you
<kadakas> ill return this subject in a year :p
<chuck> has anyone tried running this on the eee pc?
<jebba> chuck, see #eeepc too
<chuck> bspencer_ works at intel?!
<bspencer_> chuck is that you?  the /real/ chuck?  
<chuck> yes, i'm chuck norris
 * bspencer_ quickly runs "Who is"
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-09-13
<matteo> hi all
<matteo> what are tha lpia compiler flags?
<persia> chuck: A couple people have tried it on the EeePC : general consensus is the 1) It takes a *long* time to install without feedback, and 2) the EeePC is not a MID.  Look for Ubuntu Mobile in intrepid.
<persia> ian_brasil: -monitor stdio puts the KVM monitor in the shell from which you launched KVM, which can give you useful metacontrol of your instance.
<ian_brasil> persia: ok thanks
<ian_brasil> re-rolling the squashfs makes the hd work for its money ;)
<persia> ian_brasil: /tmp on tmpfs can help with that.
<persia> Also, the 20080913 image appears to have suffered a mishap, so one still can't install (although it's usable as a live image).
<ian_brasil> i don't understand
<persia> I added the following to /etc/fstab:
<persia> tmpfs /tmp tmpfs nodev,nosuid 0 0
<ian_brasil> ah,ok
<persia> What that does it create a /tmp that is half the size of physical RAM, and anything stored in /tmp goes to RAM.  In practice, much of it ends up being committed to swap, but it means that it only gets written to disk when the space in /tmp exceeds the cache buffers, rather than immediately, which can speed up operations on temporary files for machines with slower access to secondary storage (not SSD)
<persia> (or even not 10K drives - just having a 7200, 5400, or slower drive makes this a win)
<persia> Of course, the downside is that one wants to clean up /tmp to hibernate, and it's in RAM, so if one is short RAM, it may limit the size of what one can put in /tmp.
<ian_brasil> i will try that for sure. its a good job you are always here and don't sleep much persia ;)
<persia> ian_brasil: I do sleep.  That's why it took me so long to answer your question about -monitor.
<ian_brasil> ok..well thanks anyway
<ian_brasil> damn, out of space again
<ian_brasil> it is annoying that it gets right to the end before this error
<persia> It's hard to know how well the chroot will compress in advance, and when it copies the squashfs, there might just not be enough room.
<persia> Also, still out of space after running apt-get clean?  Is this a different issue?
<persia> Lastly, do you have firefox installed?  Some of the earlier images did, and you might be able to remove it to regain space.
<ian_brasil> i will try and remove firefox
<persia> You might also install deborphan and see what else can be dropped.  Alternately pull a new image :)
<ian_brasil> i think the space issue is going to cause a lot of confusion/questions..i think i will write a wiki page about this at some point
<persia> Probably best if you just mention it as a warning on the current wiki page.  I think you are the primary user of this now: ogra and I have used it some, but not to the extent you use it.
<ian_brasil> OK..space is a concern in order that the image fits on a 512MB pen drive , right?
<ian_brasil> just want to clarify this
<persia> Well, it's of interest to me, as I only have one pen drive > 512M, but they sell them at the corner store here, so it's not essential or anything.
<persia> Anyway, the current images are well over 512M, so since that criteria hasn't been met, it's not worth trying to enforce it unless you have a good idea about which packages we would do better without, and we can try to find out why they are being installed.
<ian_brasil> i am asking why is there the 20MB additional size limit when you are working inside the chroot...i missed that part of the conversation earlier
<persia> ian_brasil: It's just an arbitrary number.
<persia> Essentially, the VFAT image needs enough extra space to hold the kernel, the manifests, the preseeding, and the boot configuration files.
<persia> 20M was determined as a number that would probably handle all that without much fuss.
<persia> After the images were available, ogra put together the image-editing script, which opened new possibilities.
<persia> At this point, it's a matter of debate whether the image should contain more empty space (longer downloads, but more flexible) or stay small.
<persia> Personally, I think it's better to stay small, and upgrade an installed system, but that's currently blocked on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/20080522ubuntu14/+build/715838
<ian_brasil> ah i understand now
<persia> With luck, the image generated in ~21 hours will work for installs.  If not, I'm 100% certain the image generated in ~69 hours will allow installs.
<persia> (I very much suspect the image generated in ~45 hours will be identical to the one in ~21 hours)
<ian_brasil> i am in the camp of longer downloads with more space...with this you can make a larger theme and customize more for an OEM
<persia> ian_brasil: I guess, but I'd suspect most OEMs would prefer the even greater flexibility of generating the images themselves.
<persia> To do that, just use the squashfs-editing portion of the image-editor script, and then create a VFAT image of sufficient size, and stuff in the squashfs, kernel, preseeds (likely different for OEMs anyway), manifests (also likely different for replicable installs), and boot hints.
<persia> syslinux the VFAT image, and you're done.
<persia> The key part here is that the OEM likely wants to change the preseeds and manifests to change the way the install works.
<persia> For someone just playing around, adding a couple packages to the image works.  This is also very important when testing changes to enable new hardware.
<persia> For hardware enablement, once it's complete, I'd hope to get support into the official images.
<persia> For installing a couple fun packages that someone always uses, 20M (or maybe 30M) ought be enough.  Too much size makes latency *very* painful for those of us with long-haul connections to cdimage.ubuntu.com
<persia> Also, for folk with download caps, an extra 100M every few days can add up quickly to a 2G or 3G ceiling.
<ian_brasil> I suppose this depends to a certain extent on the OEM. In my experience some do not want to get involved in this level of customization...they just ask can I put my own applications and my own theme on ume...a quick and easy way to do enable this to happen could give this sector a good kickstart...maybe a community maintained larger vfat image might work for this? 
<persia> ian_brasil: Could be, although I'd think putting together a script to expand the VFAT is probably easier, both to maintain, and to get hosted.
<persia> I'm thinking just something that takes an existing .img as an argument, and a second argument that says how much space to add.  It then creates a VFAT that is the desired amount larger, and copies in the contents, for later use with the image editor.
<persia> Does that sound useful to you>
<persia> s/>/?/
<ian_brasil> that sounds extremely useful to me
<persia> It's also not that big, and reusable.
<ian_brasil> and a much better idea than big downloads
<persia> I'm chasing a few other things today, but if you've time to put something together, I'm happy to test, or act as a sounding board if you want to talk through something.
<ian_brasil> ok...i will try to hack something up this weekend for that
<persia> ian_brasil: Oh, right, it's still Friday night for you :)
<ian_brasil> yes, talking of which it is time to sleep! thanks again for the advice
<persia> Have a good night.
<crevette> hey people
<crevette> just a dumb question, bluez 4 is not targeted for intrepid?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-09-14
<crevette> hello
<crevette> I'm looking to do a merge for bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez-utils/+bug/258738
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258738 in bluez-utils "intrepid regression: bluetooth services without name in tab "Services"" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<famicom> pl
<famicom> quick question
<famicom> i just installed hardy on my eeepc
<famicom> with blood sweat and tears
<famicom> BUT
<famicom> what is the correct install precedure to install UME
<famicom> oh wait
<famicom> wrong edition
<famicom> looking for UME
<persia> crevette: You probably want to talk to slytherin, who is working on the same thing.
<persia> famicom: The best procedure to install Ubuntu MID hardy on EeePC is to download the mccasslin image, boot it off a USB stick, and wait for quite a while.  Most people seem to think it looks cool, but isn't well suited for the EeePC (which makes sense as it's designed for 4-6" screens).  For intrepid, there will be an Ubuntu Mobile that works better on that sort of hardware.
<famicom> what was crevette working on
<Ward1983> is there anything for ARM yet?
<Ward1983> guess not
<Ward1983> thanx for the info :s
<persia> famicom: Bug #258738
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258738 in bluez-utils "intrepid regression: bluetooth services without name in tab "Services"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258738
<persia> Ward1983: Nope.  You can track the supported architectures from https://launchpad.net/+builds
<famicom> cant be that hard to do
<persia> famicom: Not really.  At this point it's mostly testing to make sure the expected fix doesn't cause any other issues.
<slytherin> has anyone successfully done bluetooth file transfer from pc to phone in intrepid?
<famicom> eh
<famicom> whats the deal with ume launcher
<famicom> and the intel i915 chipset
<BenLauDC> famicom: compiz  issue?
<famicom> I dont think i have it installed
<Vr|3Z0> hi all
<famicom> hummm
<leopard65> hi
<famicom> does ubuntu-ume really use that many resources
<famicom> it runs like a dog
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-09-07
<mdz> njpatel, around?
<njpatel> mdz: hi
<mdz> njpatel, I've noticed in current Karmic UNR that the window picker applet doesn't blink the xchat icon when I have messages waiting
<mdz> is that a) feature, b) w-p-a bug, c) something else?
<mdz> (this used to work)
<njpatel> mdz: it should be fading in-and-out rather than blinking, but if it's not doing that either, sounds like a bug
<mdz> njpatel, if it is, it's too subtle for me to notice it
<mdz> njpatel, wait 5 seconds and say something to me again?
<njpatel> mdz: could you file a bug and I'll assign it to jason, who was dealing with the new fade code
<njpatel> sure
<njpatel> mdz: test
<mdz> njpatel, aha, it is working.  it is indeed just too subtle for my middle-aged eyes
<mdz> I have literally been thinking it was broken for the past week
<njpatel> mdz: okay, then bug should be "fade too subtle for mdz's middle-aged eyes" ;-)
<mdz> njpatel, ok
<njpatel> mdz: if you didn't notice it, it should really be made more clearer, please still file a bug, and I'll get it fixed for tomorrow's release
<mdz> njpatel, doing so now
<njpatel> thanks!
<lool> mdz: We changed colors recently so it might have degraded the feature
<lool> we had to change icons for instance
<mdz> filed bug 425813
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 425813 in window-picker-applet "Notification fading is so subtle that I don't notice" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/425813
<mdz> lool, can you assign it to jason for me since njpatel left? I don't know who that is
<lool> mdz: Sure
<lool> (sorry had a kernel crash)
<lool> mdz: Jason Smith ~jassmith
<lool> working on UNR / DX
<lool> assigned
<mdz> lool, thanks
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-09-08
<ramvi> this launchpad entry says ubuntu moblin remix has a beta available, but that isn't correct, is it? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-moblin-remix
<ramvi> nevermind, found it here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-moblin-remix/daily-live/current/
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-09-09
<EricInBNE> It was suggested in #ubuntu-devel I ask what is the status of mobile-karmic-android-execution-environment? 
<EricInBNE> Id like to contribute to this projekt.
<lool> EricInBNE: Good question
<lool> EricInBNE: I'm not sure who's working on that in Ubuntu
<lool> EricInBNE: But some Canonical OEM folks worked on it a while ago
<lool> ChickenCutClass and DebbieFoghorn
<lool> this represents some of the UDS discussions on the topic: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/AndroidExecutionEnvironment
<EricInBNE> http://mjfrey.blogspot.com/
<EricInBNE> lool, I sent that guy an email but he ignored it
<lool> EricInBNE: I'm afraid these are busy people  :-/
<lool> EricInBNE: are you familiar with ubuntu packaging and/or android alrready?
<EricInBNE> yeah I write code for android. 
<EricInBNE> looks like no pkgs in karmic-koala-beta5 either.
<lool> Ok; so my memory of where things stood is quite faint at this point
<lool> EricInBNE: Basically I recall a demo at UDS where each android app was running in its own environment
<lool> with toplevel panel in each window
<lool> One dalvik per app
<lool> that was heavy and not really nice since you didnt get much android/ubuntu integration
<lool> I understand the bulk of the effort was into patching android bits to build under ubuntu and in particular getting it to build with glibc
<wutzara> i'm interessted in using the moblin interface. But the original moblin wont work on a CeleronM-processor. It is possible, that the ubuntu moblin remix work on such a processor?
<lool> also, they used some kernel patches but not all of them
<lool> EricInBNE: What was your goal exactly?  Running android apps under ubuntu?
<lool> wutzara: it does yes
<EricInBNE> lool: I run an android startup about 5 engineers. we'd love to have our app running on ubuntu. 
<lool> wutzara: We're building our packages for the usual Ubuntu architectures, the daily image is an i386 one and supports 586+ or 686+ so celeron m is definitely supported
<EricInBNE> we are writing quite a bit of open source code at the moment
<lool> EricInBNE: That's excellent
<lool> EricInBNE: Well it's still a little early for Michael/Debbie (they are on the East Coast) but I'll try getting in touch with them to see where things stand
<EricInBNE> lool, cool. if Im asleep just /msg gambler (thats another entity of me that runs 24hrs)
<wutzara> ok. Thats excellent. Is there a possibility to collaborate on the interface? or are there plans for an sdk or something?
<lool> EricInBNE: ack
<lool> wutzara: android or moblin?
<wutzara> lool: moblin
<lool> wutzara: what do you need an sdk for?
<lool> I mean it's just regular ubuntu development style
<wutzara> :) i dont know the regular ubuntu development style ;) i thought because the UI is something new, with many new librarys (clutter etc pp) so i thought it can be possible that a environment for development will be puplished ;)
<lool> wutzara: it's the same environment
<lool> wutzara: You can either develop from moblin or from regular ubuntu
<EricInBNE> lool, it would be great if he just published his git or bzr tree somewhere...
<wutzara> is it possible to make programs that integrate directly into the interface of moblin? for example i want a RSS Reader for the HomeZone
<lool> wutzara: I bet it's absolutely doable
<lool> wutzara: Check out what the existing applets do and do the same thing
<wutzara> lool: ok thanks for the informations! at the moment i try to start the live-cd with my usb-stick. in my first attempt he said something about uncompression failure. Is it possible to run that iso from usb?
<lool> wutzara: You cant dd the ISO to USB like the moblin images
<lool> wutzara: You need to use usb-creator to write it to an USB stick
<wutzara> i use the usb-creator from ubuntu.
<lool> wutzara: that should work
<lool> wutzara: so what's the issue exactly?
<lool> Do you get the language menu?
<wutzara> lool: yes i see the language menu and start only the live-cd without installation. then a uncompession failure stop the boot process. but maybe my stick was not clean so i decided to partition it new
<wutzara> lool: now it works i see the bootbar
<ogra> heh, bootbar ...
<davmor2> I noticed something missing off of unr last night.  I went to click on network in order to connect to my samba share and it isn't there :(
 * ogra remembers a user calling it "the worm" in a bug ... "my worm is only 1/4 long" :)
<StevenK> davmor2: Does the same bug impact desktop?
<davmor2> StevenK: no place->network is listed only on unr
<davmor2> sorry should be a comma after listed
<davmor2> StevenK: you can access it if you first open nautilus and then select network but I think it should be displayed under devices or something on the default system
<StevenK> davmor2: File a wishlist bug against netbook-launcher
<davmor2> StevenK: No probs
<mdz> where is the equivalent of Places->Connect to server in UNR?
<plars> mdz: I don't think there is one right now, unless you count doing it directly from nautilus
<plars> mdz: should be pretty simple to add a menu item for nautilus-connect-server though
<mdz> plars, thanks
<plars> mdz: I don't *think* I've seen a bug on that one yet, but I can hunt around a bit an open one, unless you'd prefer to
<playya> lool, ping
<lool> playya: half pong
<lool> playya: Just ask here or send an email, I might drop soon (11pm here)
<playya> hehe. me too
<playya> i just saw you are a gstreamer maintainer and want to ask sth about a patch
<playya> gst_child_proxy_{set,get}_property checks to early for G_IS_VALUE(value)
<playya> should i remove it completely or move it after the lookup lool ?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-09-10
<ChickenCutlass> ChickenCutlass: test
<lool> playya: Without looking at the source code it sounds like it's definitely something you want to ask upstream
<lool> playya: I could check it out myself but I'm doing any gstreamer development, only packaging and even so almost none of it in the last year
<lool> playya: So best to ask directly on #gstreamer
<playya> lool, ok
<playya> after i wrote a test, i figured out that my patch would move the object to g_object_set_property
<gambler> lool, did u get a chance to talk to michael
<lool> gambler: s*** I'm sorry it completely escaped my mind; I'm setting up a reminder for later today to ask him
<lool> I was focused on oo.o issues yesterday
<lool> gambler: I just added a calendar entry in my afternoon/their morning for me to check it out with them
<lool> gambler: Do I have your email?
<gambler> lool, eric.ml.mail@gmail.com
<gambler> np btw
<bigon> hi
<bigon> any idea why libhildon is so old in ubuntu?
<lool> gambler: around?
<lool> bigon: Because we didnt merge it and dont have much time to spend on merging it I guess   :-/
<bigon> lool: :/ because I tried to compile some code I've on a tutorial for the upcomming n900 and it ftbfs
<bigon> and it works with the version in debian
<lool> bigon: :-/
<lool> bigon: If you have some bandwidth for the merge...
<bigon> I will have a look
<bigon> but there are lot of hildon pkg that need to be merged
<bigon> :/
<bigon> pfff this pkg is a mess
<lool> bigon: :-/
<bigon> lool: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libhildon/+bug/427542
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 427542 in libhildon "please merge libhildon 2.1.34.debian.1-5" [Wishlist,New]
<lool> bigon: What's the diff against?
<lool> debian version?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-09-11
<bigon> lool: yeah de diff is againts debian
<epuzarne> TomHal: ping
<TomHal> epuzarne: yo
<ian_brasil> umr is i386
 * ian_brasil wonders what it is like on lpia
<ogra> more broken ?
<ian_brasil> ogra, most probably
<davmor2> guys I'm going to have a play with a fresh unr install on HW anything I should look out for that should now be fixed?
<lool> ian_brasil: dont use lpia
<lool> ian_brasil: It's basically going away but it's cheaper to keep it than to bring it up again
<GrueMaster> davmor2: do you have the hardware to reproduce https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/427479 ?  My system went down last week and is in for warranty repair.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427479 in ubuntu-moblin-remix "wireless not work" [Undecided,New]
<GrueMaster> It's on an Acer Aspire One A110
<davidbarth> lool: i've updated: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> lool: the milestoned bugs are all in: https://edge.launchpad.net/unr/+milestone/ubuntu-9.10-ui-freeze
<lool> davidbarth: thanks
<lool> davidbarth: sorry I didnt ping you about ours
<davmor2> GrueMaster: I can have a look I'll have to dl the image though so it won't be for a bit
<GrueMaster> k
<davmor2> GrueMaster: luckily for you that is the exact machine I had :)
<davmor2> have even
<GrueMaster> Cool, excellent.
<GrueMaster> I hope I get mine back soon.
<ian_brasil> lool, will there be no new MID releases?
<ogra> unless the community gets their MER port going its unlikely
<lool> ian_brasil: No unless someone shapes them up again
<ian_brasil> the guys from mer were asking about this
<lool> ian_brasil: We did it for moblin 1; then we stopped doing any moblin stuff and focused on UNR and armel stuff; we can help interested people in getting a MID image out again but wont lead the effort
<ian_brasil> fair enough
<ian_brasil> what areas need most work?
<lool> ian_brasil: Hildon merges from Debian, new upstream hildon versions, shaping the default config and updating seeds/metas, testing images
<davmor2> GrueMaster: I can confirm from live session that it isn't seeing the atheros card for conections
<GrueMaster> great.  sigh.
<GrueMaster> Can you see what driver is loaded?  Should be ath5k.
<davmor2> GrueMaster: lsmod | grep ath*  shows ath5k, mac80211, led_class
<davmor2> although the leds aren't on like they are in unr
<davmor2> or kne
<GrueMaster> Ok, thanks.  Looks like this may be a netmanager issue then.
<davmor2> GrueMaster: iwlist and iwconfig seem to want to try and do stuff but are unable to I'm wondering if the kill switch from ntemanager is the issue and the wireless is still switched off?
<GrueMaster> if you can see any access points with "sudo iwlist wlan0 scan" then it should be working ok.
<GrueMaster> That means the radio is on.
<davmor2> yeah it's showing stuff up so it's on
<GrueMaster> ok
<ian_brasil> lool, with a sustained effort is a karmic MID release doable or is it too late?
<lool> ian_brasil: Hmm would be hard but perhaps doable; it's hard to tell, it's been a while we didn't touch that stuff
<lool> ian_brasil: With "sustained" efforts probably doable  :-)
<ian_brasil> lool, ok..i will write to the list with some action points
<ian_brasil> you want to help rbelem ?
<rbelem> ian_brasil, yep :-)
<ian_brasil> great
<rbelem> I already worked with hildon related things at indt
<ian_brasil> ok.."Hildon merges from Debian" is the thing I am most worried about if we are going to do this
<ian_brasil> so experience with Hildon will be great
<rbelem> no worries 
<rbelem> ian_brasil, I will get latest hildon sources
<lool> ian_brasil, rbelem: So what is it you would like to have in MID?  Mer?  Moblin 1?  Pure hildon?
<rbelem> lool, maybe mer
<ian_brasil> lool, Mer
<rbelem> lool, what do you think is the best choice?
<lool> ian_brasil, rbelem: So these folks are using OBS and must have some clearly defined source repos; you want to walk through their packages in leaf order, see whether we have them in ubuntu, whether the version is high enough/differs, and prepare ubuntu uploads updating karmic where relevant
<lool> I would start by pulling an image from them, looking how it works and what components are used, then preparing a list of components/versions to compare against ubuntu
<rbelem> cool
<rbelem> lool, we'll start doing this
<rbelem> lool, there is another project similar to hildon. do you remeber the name?
<rbelem> lool, i remember that you were discussing about that last year, i guess
<ian_brasil> rbelem, lets make a start with this then
<rbelem> ian_brasil, lool, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid/Mobile/AlternativesToHildon
<ian_brasil> rbelem, Kiker does not seem very active
<ian_brasil> oops, Hiker
<rbelem> ian_brasil, hum... but it seems more flexible than hildon.
<rbelem> ian_brasil, lets see the latest hildon
<ian_brasil> rbelem, ok
<rbelem> ian_brasil, it will be really cool see the new tools on mid
<lool> rbelem: intrepid is relatively old stuff by now
 * rbelem is looking for hildon tarball
<ian_brasil> rbelem, i would rather have a solid stable community release than bells and whistles..at least for a start
<rbelem> ian_brasil, for now we can have an in the edge relase, and in kamic+1 it will be more stable
<rbelem> ian_brasil, what do you think?
<lool> ian_brasil, rbelem: You're not forced to keep the name MID BTW
<lool> We have seeds and metas in place for it but that's all up to you
<rbelem> hildon is not at http://git.gnome.org/cgit/
<lool> I would align names with team names, upstream names and PPA name if possible
<ian_brasil> that sounds like a good plan..i will ping the mer guys as I remember them saying they had set things up to work with ubuntu
<rbelem> lool, i was playing with ubuntu-cdimage these times
<lool> rbelem, ian_brasil: I suggest that whenever you're blocked on review / upload from one of the universe/main sponsors or us, you push to your PPA first and start integration with karmic + ppa
<lool> rbelem: Hmm good luck
<rbelem> lool, i'm very familiar with this right now
<ian_brasil> lool, maybe it is better to keep MID than polluting the mobile namespace even more but lets think about that
<lool> ian_brasil: In my opinion all generic names suck
<lool> It's best to use codenames
<lool> Like Mer
<lool> If it's Mer you want to ship, check with them whether you can use that
<lool> Like Ubuntu Mer Remix or something
<rbelem> do you know what Mer means?
<ian_brasil> rbelem, sea?
<rbelem> ian_brasil, sea?
<lool> Yeah
<rbelem> nice!
<rbelem> :-)
<rbelem> i think Ubuntu Mer Remix is cool name
<rbelem> lets use it :-D
<lool> You are required to use "Remix" along Ubuntu if it's not 100% from Ubuntu packages, but you can keep using the name remix if you're built 100% from Ubuntu
<lool> That's why we have Ubuntu Netbook Remix and Ubuntu Moblin Remix
<rbelem> hum... i did know about that
<rbelem> :-)
<rbelem> lool, i have i meeting now, come back in some minutes
<lool> it's 8:30 pm for me, might disappear any time
<wutzara> then you are in an european time zone ;)
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-09-13
<wutzara_netbook> anyone knows how i can compile the netbook-remix-launcher? i know its an autotool-project. But i dont know how to compile it
