#ubuntu-mobile 2008-03-17
<dholbach> jamesh: 
<cprov> FYI, the fix to avoid failed-to-upload kernels is released, you can retry the i386 linux-image-ume build.
<smagoun> lool: davidm: Minutes from last week's IRC meeting aren't available, I get a 403 from the server: http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20080313_1700.html
<smagoun> seems like it affects all meeting minutes
<davidm> Something is messed up on that server
<davidm> I'll look into it.
<smagoun> davidm: thx
<davidm> smagoun, they are moving hosting, so I'll have to get a copy of the logs and stash them somewhere.
<smagoun> davidm: Is that something that should be hosted by canonical?
<davidm> Sort of but mootbot is an eggdrop bot and elmo would not host it on a canonical server
<davidm> Anyway I have the logs upuntil last week, and I'll stash them on a canonical server and relink them.  Then I'll grab my logs for last week and stash that up as well as the logs for last week mootbot are unreachable for now.
<smagoun> That figures. elmo needs a server dedicated to running the things he won't host on a canonical server.
<smagoun> davidm: thanks, that'd be great.
<davidm> Just give me an hour or so, I need to sort out where the logs are going to live.
<davidm> might be a little longer then that but it's solvable since I now have the backup logs.
<lool> cwong1, bspencer: conference?
<lool> patm: ^
<patm> I am on
<Assid> heya
<lool> bspencer_, cwong1: thanks!
<patm> +1
<bspencer_> patm, the silent listener
<bspencer_> I forgot you were on the call
<patm> bspencer, just gathering data :-)
<asac> bspencer_: cwong1: lool: thanks
<asac> patm: thanks as well ;)
<patm> np
<davidm> smagoun, all meeting logs restored, last weeks meeting is a plain text log, not a mootbot log, but it's there now. Sorry.
<smagoun> davidm: great, thanks
<davidm> Your welcome, took a little while to get the logs, and reconnect them.
<davidm> Had to edit every wiki meeting page.
<davidm> fair warning if mootbot reappears here don't use it unless you test it to make sure you can reach it's logs.
<bspencer_> How do I boot into single-user mode in ubuntu?
<bspencer_> I tried "single" and init=/bin/bash
<bspencer_> both booted to a black screen.
<lool> bspencer_: Pass 1 (runlevel) on the cmdline I think
<lool> But init=/bin/sh should work too
<lool> bspencer_: If this is under UME, perhaps you uncovered an issue with the upstart script to start Xorg or something
<bspencer_> lool,  thx.
<smagoun> bspencer: I just add 'single' to the grub cmdline, it works in UME too
<bspencer_> hm...  I'm trying to help someone who dropped by who forgot their root pswd and it didn't work, but who knows what is going on .  I'll try again
<eleftherios> why isn't anyone talking about ubuntu on mobile phones? Hardware restrictions at present?
<eleftherios> why isn't there an iphone like phone running ubuntu mobile?
<bspencer_> eleftherios, good Q.  currently ubuntu mobile only supports x86 and x86 can't yet fit into phones
<bspencer_> so either ubuntu-mobile would need to support an architecture that is avail in a phone or Intel would need to create a chip that fits in a phone
<bspencer_> I assume both will happen in the near future :)
<eleftherios> bspencer: I would assume so
<desertc> eleftherios: check out the Nokia N800 or N810 for an iPhone alternative
<desertc> Runs a distribution called Maemo.  It's not Ubuntu, but it is very good.
<eleftherios> desertc: it is not a phone though 
<eleftherios> desertc: also, I would like to have stock debian or ubuntu, not something cooked up by a culture-less company like Nokia
<eleftherios> :-)
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-03-18
<desertc> eleftherios: I use it for Voice over IP calls all the time
<eleftherios> yes, that's always an option 
<desertc> As long as you are in an area where you can get WiFi access.  For me that's all the time, except when I'm driving.  Plus, the cellular communication is proprietary, not an open protocol.
<eleftherios> desertc: I can't expect to have WiFi access most of the time although I live in London
<eleftherios> most networks are locked when you do find them
<eleftherios> It is a far cry from a real phone that runs ubuntu
<eleftherios> :-)
<eleftherios> I will try to make my own, I have seen other people doing it
<desertc> I spend 95% of my time either at home or at the office.  It's just the 5% of the time I that I need to figure out, but at least it's all open protocols.
<desertc> Oh, for sure.  Sign me up to order the first Ubuntu phone.
<desertc> Just saying, if you're looking for an iPhone alternative, then check out the N800
<eleftherios> desertc: ok, you will be the third person to have one; I will notify you as soon as I have more than two phones available :-)
<eleftherios> It will be hand made if you don't mind
<desertc> from cardboard?  ;-)
<eleftherios> I'll see
<eleftherios> better materials, have a bit of faith :-)
<eleftherios> if that VIA mobile ITX board was available, it would have been a much easiertask to have a ubuntu phone
<eleftherios> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xog3NgfYetQ&feature=related
<desertc> Nice - I was looking at some other tiny linux boards this weekend, too, running ARM though
<desertc> That's the future for Linux, I think -- open spec hardware.
<eleftherios> desertc: but having x86 would make things a lot easier 
<desertc> I agree - for portability... but x86 has a number of drawbacks.  Maybe it's time to move to greener pastures.
<desertc> With Linux's cross-platform portability, then it might finally be possible to move away from the legacy x86 requirements.
<eleftherios> desertc: as long as it dominates the desktop and the server, the convenience to have it on the mobile outweights a lot of its drawbacks one would think
<eleftherios> the majority of linux developers are on x86 architectures after all 
<eleftherios> I don't know, I am not advocating x86 
<desertc> Yes, but their applications can largely be ported to other platforms which also run Linux
<eleftherios> but there is a matter of convenience there for sure
<eleftherios> yes, that's true
<desertc> For example, the ARM processor in the N800 is not much of a hurdle to port common linux desktop applications.
<desertc> The hardware interface is much more of a challenge (can the application be used with the control pad rather than the keyboard and mouse)
<eleftherios> hm
<desertc> Did I mention you should get an N800 / N810 ?  ;)
<eleftherios> I will make my own ubuntu phone :-)
<eleftherios> it would be a good weekend project
<eleftherios> for many weekends!
<desertc> Okay, okay, I'll still buy your phone anyway.  :)  You can use the money to buy a N800 for $200 or so
<eleftherios> ha ha
<eleftherios> is there a library for touch screens? like cocoa touch?
<desertc> You can ask in #maemo - the developers are super friendly
<desertc> I just loaded Ur-Quan Masters for fun on this N800
<desertc> That's not some simple application.
<desertc> The port looks awesome
<elefther`> oops, got disconected
<eleftherios> desertc: thanks
<bspencer_> if I have a meta package, how can I see what sub-packages are included in it, or it depends on?
<bspencer_> Correct answer include:    apt-cache depends <pkg>
<bspencer_> thx bspencer , you're a genius
<dholbach> good morning
<lool> bspencer_:  :)
<cgregan> Hello, There seems to be a fair amount of overlap in some of these rooms, so I apologize to those that have seen this three time. :-) I just joined Canonical as Mobile QA Engineer and wanted to introduce myself to the community members. If you have any questions, or there is something I can do to improve the relationship between the community and Canonical, please do not hesitate to ask. Thanks
 * dholbach high-fives cgregan :)
<dholbach> cgregan: you could probably send a mail to https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile 
<cgregan> dholbach: Good idea, thanks
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 22:07. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> [topic] test
<MootBot> New Topic:  test 
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 22:07.
<GrueMaster> Quick meeting.
<GrueMaster> Lots accomplished.
<davidm> Just a quick test of the mootbot function 
<GrueMaster> ah
<The_PHP_Jedi> hehe, nice.
<davidm> mootbot has a new home and the logs were moved...
<lool> [action] davidm to report on MootBot test
<davidm> lool, it's working again :-)
<lool> \o/
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-03-19
<mboman> Has anyone tried Ubuntu ME on the Asus EEE PC?
 * The_PHP_Jedi shivers at 'ME'... why not call it UM or something :-/
<The_PHP_Jedi> and no, I don't own an eeePC
<mboman> but I should be able to install it on a SD card and boot form that, right? (if you assume that the EEE can boot from SD cards)
<The_PHP_Jedi> well, in theory it would, since it can boot OSes from an SD card.
<The_PHP_Jedi> maybe tested devices are in the FAQ somewhere
<cgregan> The_PHP_jedi, mboman: I believe the Canonical Mobile Solutions Group has a Eee and is actively testing on it. Lemme poke my head over into the Canonical internal irc to see if anyone can confirm.
<mboman> cgregan: that would be great!
<The_PHP_Jedi> nice
<cgregan> Sorry folks, Canonical does have a Eee, but not in the MSG.
<cgregan> I believe the standard desktop team is the one working with it.
<rdvon> what devices will this work for?
<dholbach> good morning
<aristocrat> can anybody help me understand the "Acceptance Criteria" for Ubuntu Mobile ?
<dholbach> aristocrat: what exactly are you after?
<aristocrat> dholbach, i beleive there is some document which specifies an "Acceptance Criteria" , its some document required as part of any project..
<dholbach> accept what? I'm not sure what you're looking for?
<aristocrat> I think it discusses what the final product has to be and bla bla.. some project management information ..
<dholbach> phew.... no idea - is nothing on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded and in the blueprints tracker?
<aristocrat> dholbach, didnt find one there... this is a hard doc to find ..:)
<dholbach> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile is what the mobile team is working on
<dholbach> that's all I know
<aristocrat> dholbach, i'll have go through it.. ur help is appreciated
<dholbach> no problem :)
<dholbach> I'm not intimately familiar with the mobile project, just lurking here :)
<aristocrat> hey if you accidently fall upon aything that states "acceptance criteria" or related.. send me a msg.. 
<bspencer> is hardy stable enough for production system?
<bspencer> I'd like to start using it on one of my systems so I can validate the hardy ppa images, but I don't want to spend the day debugging unrelated issues
<pat_mcgowan> bspencer, you still there?
<pat_mcgowan> bspencer, many folks have switched to Hardy, although regressions can still happen
<pat_mcgowan> bspencer, if you have multiple systems, for sure its ok
<\sh> lool: just found bug #198861 with the hildon patch against claws-mail 3.3.0...can you test if this patch applies cleanly to 3.3.1, which hit hardy earlier on?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 198861 in claws-mail "There's no flag to enable hildon interface when building for lpia" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198861
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, testing question for you
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, have you run Cheese on a D0 or D1 lately?
<GrueMaster> No, but I can.
<GrueMaster> I have a D1 fired up now.
<GrueMaster> I'll have to reboot.  Apparently Moblin doesn't support uvcvideo
<lool> \sh: I'll try to
<lool> Don't have the choice
<\sh> lool: I'll port the diff now to 3.3.1
<\sh> lool: we just need an FFe for it, because it introduces a new feature ;)
<GrueMaster> pat_mcgowan:  Looks ok.  taking a picture shows my ugly mug no problem.  Video record seems semi-smooth (~15-20 FPS).
<GrueMaster> I can't playback the video because of the moblin-media docking bug.
<\sh> lool: and if you have an idea, how to emulate such a device (I think it's those nokia n8xx series, right?) I'm happy to test those things too :)
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, thanks, what build do you have? and what docking bug, no FAT partition?
<GrueMaster> This is the Ubuntu Hardy Beta2 from 20080228 with 2.0.0.32L.0010 PSB video.
<GrueMaster> I saw an email thismorning on the moblin media issue, but rusty's solution didn't work for me.
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, I see, he's saying to undefine the mount point so moblin-media ignores it
<pat_mcgowan> The problem we had was we disabled the FAT partition creation and all heck broke loose, then we had to do a similar thing
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, thanks for the test, something has broken in the last two weeks of upgrades and changes, trying to narrow it down
<GrueMaster> ok, it still doesn't seem to fix my side.  I'll root around a bit.
<GrueMaster> Is this in ubuntu or your "other" image?
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, other
<GrueMaster> I'll give it a whirl in a little bit.  I have 20080313.
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, one more thing, our camera uses v4l2 and that seems to be part of the issue
<\sh> lool: it looks like that adilson forgot to include ./configure in his patch after he ran aclocal -I m4 ; automake --gnu ; autconf ...
<GrueMaster> pat_mcgowan: Not sure what mine uses, but I'll check.  I know it uses the uvcvideo driver.
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, if you lsmod it should show the chain
<GrueMaster> I did.  It shows uvcvideo, compat_ioctl32, videodev, v4l1_compat, and v4l2_common.
<GrueMaster> uvcvideo is the actual hardware driver.  It's for the newer "Vista" ready web cams.
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, thats our output too
<\sh> lool: I'll attach a debdiff to the bug report for you guys to test build and test run it...
<virtuald> hey, are there any experimental repositories for ubuntu-mobile? 
<virtuald> specifically, the media player
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-03-20
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> lool: ping claws-mail: I just need to test it still for building on lpia and see if it's starting up with the ubuntu-mobile environment ... you don#t need to do anything...uploading will be done hopefully tonight :) 
<cgregan> lool: ping
<lool> \sh: Cool!
<lool> \sh: Also, you might want to talk with agoliveira (Adilson) when he's around, he's the one working on this port for us
<lool> \sh: bfiller from MSG team was also highly interested :)
<lool> \sh: ("MSG" => Canonical Mobile Solution Group)
<lool> bfiller: ^
<lool> bfiller: \sh has been reviewing, porting, and soon will be uploading claws-mail's hildon patch
<lool> bfiller: (he updated claws to 3.3.1)
<bfiller> lool: great, thanks for the update
<lool> cgregan: pongt
<lool> cgregan: suggestion: group your ping with a question to allow me to attach an answer to the pong)
<lool> or to the pongt
<\sh> lool: I documented everything in the bugreport :)
<lool> \sh: Excellent, thanks again
<lool> asac: http://blog.mozilla.com/blassey/2008/03/17/maemo-buildbot/
<cgregan> lool: got it..thanks....is there an iso image for the latest release of ubuntu-mobile that I can use to boot a VM. LIW mentioned
<lool> asac: Some recent efforts to build xulrunner for maemo :)
<lool> asac: The hard part is probably the arm port for these folks though
<lool> cgregan: We don't have ISO images
<asac> lool: yes. at least debian can benefit of this i guess
<lool> cgregan: Latest MIC might be able to generate some, but we don't build dailies
<lool> cgregan: The reason there's no big need for them is that the devices don't have CD-ROM usually, but they do have USB ports
<lool> cgregan: So it's easier for us to boot on USB
<cgregan> lool: thanks...I will check moblin.
<lool> cgregan: This is in the mail I sent you though
<cgregan> lool: yes...VM/qemu does not like USB as far as I can see
<lool> cgregan: Our dailies are at cdimages.u.c though, not at moblin
<lool> moblin is the upstream of the projects we package
<asac> lool: we should entangle with them if we need features for xulrunner in the code base.
<lool> asac: them == ?
<lool> maemo folks?
<asac> yes
<asac> nokia
<lool> Sure
<cgregan> lool: correct...actually trying to VM menlow
<lool> cgregan: Have fun
<cgregan> lool: hehe
<lool> not even sarcastic!
<mjg59> asac: Who was handling the xulrunner stuff for Nokia?
<mjg59> asac: (You know that all their GTK people are leaving next week, right?)
<asac> timeless is working for them as far as i know
<lool> mjg59: Terrible news :-(
<asac> not sure if he works on xul specifically
<cgregan> lool: thanks...I told liw I would keep him in the loop, do you want a digest of my findings as well?
<asac> mjg59: nokias gtk people ... wow.
<lool> cgregan: I certainly do; as I wrote in my email ;)
<mjg59> asac: I think there's a couple of managers left, but as far as I know all the coders are leaving
<asac> mjg59: any destination or just walking away?
<mjg59> asac: I think they're going to the same place, but I don't know where
<asac> ;)
<asac> yeah
<GrueMaster> Other than the XWindows configuration and drivers, what are the differences between Mccaslin and Menlow images?  I'm asking because I'm getting a development system for home in the next couple of weeks, and will be using a mccaslin image for it, but want the latest apps as well.
<nrp> cjb: is it devel@lists.laptop.org
<nrp> err, wrong chan
<bspencer> no adilson...
<bspencer> lool: ping?
<lool> bspencer: pong
<lool> bspencer: Adilson is more or less around, he just came back from Bossa
<bspencer> horace and I were trying to make small patches for galculator and mousepad (notepad)
<bspencer> we didn't see these in bzr.
<bspencer> do we just add our patches to PPA only
<agoliveira> bspencer: Hi. Looking for me?
<bspencer> and not worry about bzr repo?
<bspencer> agoliveira: wow, what response!
<bspencer> just a quick Q about galculator and notes
<agoliveira> bspencer: lool was vigilant. I was around, just forgot to join here.
<bspencer> we have a couple small patches to galculator.  We can add these as patch files to hardy ppa on top of your source
<lool> bspencer: Sure; either file patches against hardy proper or upload to the ppa or both :)
<agoliveira> bspencer: The right way is to open a bug.
<bspencer> the Q was if we need to add these changes to the bzr repo.   But there doesn't seem to be one for galculator or mousepad
<lool> bspencer: or upstream :)
<lool> bspencer: We bzr-imported maemo stuff, and only that AFAIK
<lool> bspencer: We could do the same for more projects
<lool> We didn't do this for galculator though
<bspencer> lool: ok.  So ppa patches, and upstream.  We'll do it in that order.
<agoliveira> bspencer: Well, lool can answer that better than I but he's correct.
<bspencer> cool, got it
<lool> bspencer: IMO it's best to push it upstream first; but to get packages the soonest, you need to go to the ppa step :)
<bspencer> lool: is there an upstream for mousepad?
<bspencer> I think it was an imported Maemo app
<bspencer> horaceli: is there an upstream for mousepad?
<lool> bspencer: Looks like it was http://erikharrison.net/ but is dead now
<horaceli> bspencer, I didn't find the place
<lool> bspencer: Let me check
<bspencer> ok.  so for mousepad, just put patches into the ppa
<bspencer> and for galculator put patches into the ppa but also write a patch for upstream inclusion and send to maintainers for discussion
<bspencer> perhaps with USE_HILDON flag
<lool> Usually, USE_HILDON should be avoided, but if you have no other options, then yes
<lool> If you require hildon libs, then you probably need it
<lool> bspencer: Could it be http://www.xfce.org/projects/mousepad now?
<agoliveira> lool, bspencer, galculator already have hildon patches.
<bspencer> lool:  I don't think that a hildon version of galculator can be generated from upstream yet
<bspencer> and you mean, only use USE_HILDON if the changes are exactly for hildon, not just mobile changes
<lool> horaceli: 17:27 < lool> bspencer: Could it be http://www.xfce.org/projects/mousepad now?
<horaceli> agoliveira, where can I get the hildon-ized galculator?
<bspencer> how would you specify mobile changes.
<bspencer> horaceli: in the hardy ppa :)
<lool> Bonus point for bspencer 
<agoliveira> horaceli: the same place as everything else: hard
<lool> bspencer: I think the galculator patches should be sent upstream too :)
<lool> agoliveira: hard?  or rock?
<horaceli> bspencer, so I need to get it from hardy ppa first, add patches, bump up version , then put back to ppa?
<agoliveira> lool: I sent them ages ago. Never got an answer :(
<lool> agoliveira: bug id?
<agoliveira> lool: Blame that to my lack of sleep
<bspencer> horaceli: yes.  and also consider current upstream project and try to create a patch they will accept
<bspencer> horaceli: have we ever engaged with galculator maintainers?
<lool> horaceli: Yup
<agoliveira> lool: Good question. I was agaes ago, I really don't know if I even created a bug.
<horaceli> bspencer, seems not
<bspencer> ok
<bspencer> horaceli: 17:27 < lool> bspencer: Could it be http://www.xfce.org/projects/mousepad now?
<lool> agoliveira: I heartily recommend you file bugs
<bspencer> that's the upstream where you got mousepad, right?
<horaceli> bspencer, lool, yep, I have seen the link
<bspencer> ok.  anything eles horaceli ?
<bspencer> s/eles/else
<horaceli> bspencer, I got mousepad actually by `apt-get source mousepad` in my feisty environment months ago
<horaceli> and then do hildon-ization
<HappyCamp> dholbach, Mr DJ :)
<bspencer> horaceli: ok.  anything eles?
<bspencer> horaceli: I have to run to get to work before the next mtg.
<dholbach> hi happyCamp
<horaceli> bspencer, nope
<horaceli> will be you online tnight
<bspencer> ok.  have a good night.  thanks for the checkin.  
<agoliveira> lool: Sure, was something that went into the limbo when it was just Tollef and I, I guess
<bspencer> horaceli: yes.  I'll stay until you arrive
<horaceli> I want to talk about mousepad tomorrow
<bspencer> for the hand-off
<horaceli> if you have time
<horaceli> okay
<bspencer> ok
<bspencer> see ya
<horaceli> see ya
<HappyCamp> dholbach, Hey.  I sold my Technics SL-1210MK2 this last weekend.  I hadn't used them in probably 10 years.  I bet you think I should have kept them :)
<HappyCamp> But I am going to be moving, so had to clear out stuff.
<dholbach> HappyCamp: no way :)
<lool> HappyCamp: So moving to Europe?
<dholbach> lool: I'll be in Paris tomorrow :)
<lool> dholbach: Cool!  I'll be spazierganging in Paris Saturday; otherwise, I'm quite away of the city (40 mn S-Bahn)
<HappyCamp> lool, not yet.  Actually Boston / New Hampshire area
<lool> HappyCamp: Oh ok; I wish you a good move then
<HappyCamp> New assignment.  Starts in a about 2 months
<dholbach> lool: Spazierganging! :-)
<dholbach> lool: we'll be spazierganging a lot too :)
<HappyCamp> dholbach, one thing that looked cool was the Denon DN-HS5500
<lool> dholbach: We could arrange gemeinsamspazierganging for a while
<lool> Just don't ask pitti how it was to walk with me in Paris
<dholbach> lool: I'm used to walking - no problem
<dholbach> HappyCamp: what's that?
 * dholbach hugs lool
<dholbach> lool: I'll make a note of your mobile phone number :)
<lool> Current plan is eating at LadurÃ©e (Printemps / grand magasins), then perhaps walking to some shops around la Madeleine, then going to some shops around les Halles
<lool> See you!
<lool> horaceli: You around?
<lool> horaceli: Could you try with the glib2.0 version in the ppa?
 * dholbach hugs lool
<HappyCamp> dholbach, The denon is a turntable like music player.  Has a rotating platter like a 7" turntable.  You can scratch on it and stuff.
<dholbach> ahhh ok
<HappyCamp> It just looked cool :)
<HappyCamp> It is about $850.00 here in the U.S. if you shop around.
<lool> horaceli: Did it work with -Wno-error?
<agoliveira> HappyCamp, Real man use vinil. Period :)
<HappyCamp> I guess most of the guys are using the Pioneer stuff
<HappyCamp> agoliveira, They have a few products which use viny but you are still mixing MP3s and stuff.  Traktor, Serato Scratch Live
<HappyCamp> They come with two time-coded vinyl records.  And it figures out that you how you are mixing the vinyl
<HappyCamp> s/out that you how/out how/
<agoliveira> HappyCamp: Mix MP3... pfst... I'm talking about hand-mixing stuff with real vinil and felling the beat instead of having software doing it for you! :)
<HappyCamp> agoliveira, That is what that stuff does
<HappyCamp> google for Serato Scratch Live
<agoliveira> HappyCamp, so I forgive you.
<HappyCamp> It is kind of interesting.  I doubt I will ever buy it, but it looks cool.
<agoliveira> HappyCamp, I'm just kidding, it's being like 15 years I don't do anything like this.
<HappyCamp> Same here.  I stopped DJing in 1996, once I graduated from college and got a good paying job :)
<HappyCamp> But I was mainly just DJing wedding receptions and such.
<HappyCamp> Nothing too exciting, just trying to make money for school.
<agoliveira> HappyCamp, I've done it just for fun, not trying to make any money.
<dholbach> HappyCamp: ah yeah... I remember
<dholbach> lool: excellent :)
 * bspencer runs to work.  might be a few mins late to mtg...
<lool> noted
<amitk> jay: hi
<jay> hi
<amitk> jay: I did some extensive culling to the lpia kernel config. Do you have time next week to test?
<alek_desk> amitk, optimized configs?
<jay> amitk: sure, let me know what you want me to test for
<alek_desk> jay, BTW I did a fix to USBC today
<jay> amitk: I mean what to focus on?
<agoliveira> meeting?
<amitk> alek_desk: jay: kind of. There was a boatload of stuff that I don't anticipate on menlow architecture, such as hotplug PCI, scsi disks, etc. I just want to make sure that I didn't inadvertently turn off something you depend on
<jay> alek_desk: I saw that, I will wait for a release to be cut before I sync it to hardy-ume
<davidm> lool, can you chair please
<jay> amitk: did you figure out the ACPI_VIDEO config issue?
<amitk> jay: lets continue after the meeting
<jay> amitk: OK
<davidm> We will start the meeting in just a minute.
<lool> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:03. The chair is lool.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<lool> Hi everybody
 * agoliveira waves
<rustyl_> morning
<lool> bspencer: Will be a tad late
<lool> s/: /
<lool> I'll start by reviewing the action items
<lool> Which will soon turn into bashing of my own lateness
<lool> [topic] patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted]
<MootBot> New Topic:  patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] 
<lool> pat_mcgowan: woot
<AtomicPunk> ToddBrandt will be in in 15 minutes
<lool> Ok, I'll defer this topic until we grab pat
<lool> [topic] davidm & agoliveira to look at what asac provides and get script written by 13 March that does conversion of .po files to xpi structures. [cted]
<MootBot> New Topic:  davidm & agoliveira to look at what asac provides and get script written by 13 March that does conversion of .po files to xpi structures. [cted] 
<lool> asac, davidm: How is it going?  Good progress I think?
<davidm> lool, it is in progress now, I have just about completed the parsing of all strings in a .po file
<lool> Shall we continue tracking in meetings?
<davidm> I'm just finishing up the comment lines.
<davidm> I don't think it's worth it, it's well in hand
<asac> agree ... i think we can drop it from agenda
<pat_mcgowan> woot
<lool> Ok
<lool> Let's move back to the first topic :)
<lool> [topic] patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted]
<MootBot> New Topic:  patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] 
<lool> pat_mcgowan: Did you produce some boot charts?
<pat_mcgowan> lool, did not produce them but assigned the task to Debbie
<lool> Cool
<pat_mcgowan> so now they will appear sometime soon
<lool> [action] Debbie to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] [cted]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Debbie to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] [cted] 
<lool> Poor Debbie, didn't start and is already two weeks late ;)
<pat_mcgowan> btw Debbie is looking at boot speed in general
<lool> Excellent news
<lool> Let's move forward then, thanks for the update
<lool> [topic] kyleN to attach his python script to list gettext domains in use in hildon modules on the langpack research page
<MootBot> New Topic:  kyleN to attach his python script to list gettext domains in use in hildon modules on the langpack research page 
<kyleN> can you please remind me which exact page you'd like me to attach this to?
<lool> kyleN: The langpack research page
<kyleN> can you be less specific ?
<kyleN> ;)
<kyleN> how about a url
<lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/MobileLangpack
<kyleN> will do it
<lool> Should I consider it done?
<kyleN> I'll do it soon. you can remove it from actions
<lool> Ok
<lool> [topic] kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored
<MootBot> New Topic:  kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored 
<lool> I think you made some good progress on the script this week
<lool> How is it going?
<kyleN> here's a summary
<kyleN> we are talking about grepping source code packages to find domains
<kyleN> someimtes domains are set with variables
<kyleN> so getting a definitive list from any tool is not worth the effort
<kyleN> however, the tool simplifies the process of getting the domains
<kyleN> you have a list of packages you edit through the gui
<kyleN> it downloads source packages for them all
<kyleN> then there is a stage of grepping in which you can edit the various grep commands
<kyleN> these are then grepped again and post processed
<kyleN> the reesult is a neat lit of per package domains plus items that need further research
<kyleN> list
<kyleN> so it gets you much of the way, with some manual follow up needs
<lool> When you say a list of per package domains, are these gettext domains used by the package or templates provided in the package?
<kyleN> gettext domains
<kyleN> so we end up with a list of domains each pkg uses. some pkgs use multiple
<kyleN> some hildon pkgs, that is, use multiple
<lool> Ones used by the package to request strings or ones for which the package provides strings?
<kyleN> the former
<lool> Ok; did you also look for the later?
<kyleN> the second part is yet to be investigaged
<lool> Ok; nice work on the first part; thanks a lot!  Could you list the current output of the script on the same wiki page with today's date?
<kyleN> yes but I have one question, the answer of which may be obvious to many here
<kyleN> what's the actual list of hildon packages I should be searching. I can apt-cache search "hildon" in a target, but that doesn't seem definitive
<lool> What about searching the ones from a haf checkout?
<kyleN> what is the clear lsit of hildon package we use so that I can find out what domains they require
<kyleN> don't understand "haf checkout"
<lool> kyleN: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk
<lool> A SVN checkout of this URL, which I think I mentionned as a starting point a long long while back
<kyleN> oh, but wouldn't that be ALL hildon packages, and we don't use some of them, right
<lool> But you might have followed a different path in the mean time
<lool> kyleN: Does it matter?
<kyleN> we only need domains for the packages we use, not for all of them
<lool> kyleN: One issue with looking at what we have in APT able packages is that we might be missing the packages actually providing the templates
<lool> kyleN: We can easily filter down the list
<kyleN> that's what I am asking for: the filetered list. however, I can start with the haf svn co
<bspencer> kyleN: we can prioritize the list to those we use now heavily and those we don't use much, or don't use at all yet
<lool> bspencer_: http://people.dooz.org/~lool/um-meeting-20080320.txt
<bspencer> but I agree with lool  that all are important and will likely be used eventually
<bspencer> lool:  thx.
<kyleN> ok, I'll get them all.
<kyleN> by the way, not today. hopefully tomorrow
<lool> Ok
<lool> kyleN: So, the action was about locating the templates
<lool> "kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored"
<lool> kyleN: Carry on that action?
<kyleN> yes please.
<lool> [action] kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored [cted]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored [cted] 
<lool> [topic] kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted]
<MootBot> New Topic:  kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] 
<kyleN> sadly not touched, please carry forward
<lool> [action] kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] [cted]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] [cted] 
<lool> [topic] lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted]
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] 
<lool> agoliveira, bfiller, horaceli, smagoun, lool: progress?
<bspencer> horaceli: you still here?
<lool> I've been slacking and still only did one out of two
<bfiller> lool: I'll need to carry over to next week. did not get to yet.
<agoliveira> lool: At the Bossa Conference this week so, not yet. I hope to complete until next week.
<lool> Also, I intend to upload my work to hardy, but it's in freeze til today for beta
 * ToddBrandt is back
<lool> Ok; carrying on
<lool> [action] lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] [cted]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] [cted] 
<lool> [topic] ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted]
<MootBot> New Topic:  ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted] 
<lool> ToddBrandt: woot
<ToddBrandt> amazing, just in time
<lool> indeed
<ToddBrandt> lool: I've been fighting fires this week so it's not in 0.47 yet, but I send Kyle a clarification request to understand exactly what you guys want
<ToddBrandt> So, we're working it offline essentially
<kyleN> lool, perhaps you can help me articulate it, but here's my thinking
<kyleN> in desktop, there's a gconf key that is watched by the settings daemon. change the gconf key and it refers to a new gtk directory + theme
<kyleN> the gtk theme changees automically and dynamically
<kyleN> however, this does work on mobile
<lool> That's correct
<kyleN> I believe it may be at least in part because moblin daemon does watch this key
<kyleN> doe NOT watch this key i mean
<lool> Could be
<kyleN> so the first step to getting dynamic gtk themes is waching the key
<ToddBrandt> wait, who changes this key? Do you mean gconf-editor or some theme-switcher applet?
<lool> ToddBrandt: Whatever, usually desktop-background-properties or appearance-properties in a normal desktop
<kyleN> if you cahnge it manually in desktop, everything happens
<ToddBrandt> moblin-applets is intended to supply that applet
<lool> well, not desktop-background-properties, sorry, it was some other capplet
<ToddBrandt> that's where I'm confused
<bspencer> theme is different from background
<bspencer> theme switcher applet is not planned by us, but should be by someone :)
<kyleN> +1 bspencer 
<lool> Yes, I didn't mean background
<ToddBrandt> moblin-applets includes the schema to default those theme keys
<lool> To be clear: there are many types of themes, GNOME theme are "meta themes", pointing to a Gtk+ theme
<kyleN> There are issues with theme switching in hildon
<lool> the daemon programs watching this gconf property is here to bridge gconf changes over Xsettings changes; the other programs should watch the relevant gconf keys directly
<kyleN> not least of which is that hildon-desktop seems to hard code the gtkrc files
<ToddBrandt> So you want moblin-settings-daemon to watch one set of keys for changes, then when it detects them apply those changes to other keys?
<kyleN> couldwe extend hildonprogram to watch this key so that every application that extends it watches too?
<lool> Ok; so where do we stand here?  bspencer says theme switching isn't in the plans; kyleN you need theme switching?
<kyleN> we need at lest gtk theme switching
<kyleN> least
<lool> ToddBrandt: The gnome-settings-daemon watches gconf key changes and updates "xsettings" for the Gtk+ theme at least
<ToddBrandt> well, gnome-control-center has a theme-switcher applet, it's on the table to be added to moblin-applets at some point in the future
<lool> ToddBrandt: but even if you don't implement the applet, could you watch the key over gconf and update the xsettings like gnome does?
<lool> ToddBrandt: Say, gconftool-2 would be used to switch between themes in your tests
<ToddBrandt> ok, so which code would I look at to understand exactly what gnome does?
<lool> gnome-settings-daemon
<ToddBrandt> hmm, ok
<lool> I think xsettings-manager.c is the point
<ToddBrandt> So basically I should resurrect that code into moblin-settings-daemon, gotcha
<lool> ToddBrandt: gnome-settings-xsettings.c => /desktop/gnome/interface/gtk_key_theme gconf => Gtk/KeyThemeName Xsettings
<ToddBrandt> gnome-settings-xsettings.c
<lool> Right
<ToddBrandt> ok, I understand
<lool> We should use something else than /gnome obviously
<kyleN> our (shortish term)  need is not to empower the user to switch themes, but to receive an event and respond by changing the gconf gtk theme key to point to another theme. then, all gtk bjects magically change accordingly
<ToddBrandt> moblin-settings-xsettings.c is there but is dormant
<lool> ToddBrandt: Is it ok for you to work on this?
<ToddBrandt> yes, that shouldn't be a problem
<lool> Ok; I'll carry on the same action then; thanks!
<lool> [action] ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted] [cted]
<kyleN> cool
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted] [cted] 
<ToddBrandt> k, thanks, and sorry for the delay
<lool> [topic] sabotage to provide drafts of themes tools guide and implementation options as links on the mailing-list [cted]
<MootBot> New Topic:  sabotage to provide drafts of themes tools guide and implementation options as links on the mailing-list [cted] 
<sabotage> done
<lool> sabotage: You did I think
<lool> sabotage: Congrats!
<lool> sabotage: Now what's the next step?
<lool> [link] http://www.moblin.org/moblin-wiki/ThemeGuide
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.moblin.org/moblin-wiki/ThemeGuide 
<sabotage> feedback, debate, beer
<kyleN> in that order?
<sabotage> not necessarily
<lool> You can insert beer before debate or feedback
<lool> But don't drive
<sabotage> sometime beer first helps the process
<kyleN> thx for posting, sabotage. 
<lool> My first feedback is: thanks!
<lool> Nice compilation
<bspencer> sabotage: do you have plans to resurrect the tools that were created by Peter?
<sabotage> so, point is, it's in wiki form, and there are areas where detail is still needed
<bspencer> or update them and release them?
<kyleN> who is peter? we might want theme creation tools for OEMs ODMs. 
<sabotage> and some places where direction must be set, and this really should be done collaboratively 
<kyleN> I believe Moblin has diverged from Hildon theme tools
<sabotage> bspencer, no idea who/what you are refering to?
<bspencer> kyleN: Peter Zhu is on our PRC team.  He created a simple extension to the hildon theme creation tools to support our additions. 
<sabotage> oh, yeah...
<bspencer> Peter Zhu gave these tools to kwiii who created an ubuntu-specific theme
<sabotage> well, no plans today
<bspencer> we've been sitting on that theme and tools 
<bspencer> sabotage: ok.
<kyleN> are these tools suitable for OEMs?
<sabotage> and that is one of the ares that needs further community discussion
<bspencer> kyleN: they may be, but they need an owner.  
<sabotage> I'm not sure I liked the path that the tools peter was working was going
<bspencer> sabotage: right.   kyleN that's why they need an owner :)
<kyleN> so I +1 sabotage's call for someone to bite this bullet, and no I am not volunteering right now. but it's absence will continue to plague us, I believe
<sabotage> so action would be for stakeholders to review the tools section of the theme guide and lets start discussing options
<lool> So, do you people have an exact idea of what needs discussing, or do we need to discuss a general direction for these tools?
<sabotage> the problem statement is in my doc
<sabotage> options are presented
<bspencer> we have some ideas, I think sabotage has described the issues.
<lool> sabotage: The part about changing this or that gtkrc?
<sabotage> and it needs review 
<sabotage> no, the part about the dependancies on hildon layout and template files today
<sabotage> and that they don't meet the broader needs and flixibility going forward
<kyleN> i think there needs to be a set of requriements for themeing defined
<kyleN> broadly speaking
<sabotage> we need to come up with a plan on if moblin themes will be compatible with hildon, vice versa, or totally new/different
<lool> Ok; is this something which we need to settle right now?  Could it wait for e.g. UDS?
<sabotage> not now, a sprint or UDS or other forum would be better
<sabotage> face 2 face is best
<kyleN> UDS sounds reasonable
<lool> Ok; sabotage could you add a simple blueprint (mostly empty for now) for this?
<kyleN> it's not trivial
<lool> sabotage: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile
<sabotage> give me an action...I just got a call I need to take...
<sabotage> sorry
<lool> That's fine
<bspencer> I think we can expose the tools we have now and you could look at them
<lool> amitk: Which was the blueprint you created recently?
<bspencer> and also kwii's theme.
<lool> bspencer: Sounds reasonable
<lool> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-mobile-kernel-version
<lool> [link] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-mobile-kernel-version
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-mobile-kernel-version 
<lool> This is an example empty blueprint which amitk created last week and which we intend to discuss at next UDS (uds-intrepid, in Prague)
<lool> [action] sabotage to create a blueprint entry at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sabotage to create a blueprint entry at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ 
<amitk> one thing I just realised... it isn't under ~ubuntu-mobile
<lool> amitk: Please subscribe u-m
<lool> amitk: This is how I failed finding it at first sight ;)
<lool> [topic] lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process 
<lool> This is the moment where you can all bash me
<lool> Executive status: zero
<amitk> done
<lool> So, I simply didn't update any moblin module to a tarball release, and this really sucks; I'm very sorry
 * bspencer thinks look is a loser and wonders how he rose to the status of MOTU
<lool> This subsequently prevented rustyl_ to assign the other updates
 * rustyl_ is relieved
<bspencer> s/look/lool
<lool> bspencer: I'm even core dev now
<bspencer> unbelievable
<lool> Yeah, they accept almost anybody
<lool> So, I'll have to reconduct the action; as a bonus, I should be able to push to hardy as we were in freeze this week
<lool> [action] lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process [cted]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process [cted] 
<lool> [topic] lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process 
<lool> Hmm dito
<rustyl_> yeap
<lool> [action] lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process [cted]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process [cted] 
<lool> rustyl_: My sincere apologies; I hate blocking other people
<lool> [topic] rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process
<MootBot> New Topic:  rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process 
<rustyl_> just means other items got more cycles
<lool> rustyl_: So, sorry again; allow me to carry on
<lool> [action] rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process [cted as blocked by lool last week]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process [cted as blocked by lool last week] 
<lool> Moving to today's items now
<lool> [topic] bfiller: how to keep moblin-applets in sync with gnome-control-center/gnome-system-tools
<MootBot> New Topic:  bfiller: how to keep moblin-applets in sync with gnome-control-center/gnome-system-tools 
<lool> (WARNING: 10mn left)
<lool> bfiller: woot
<bfiller> my understanding is moblin-applets forked from gnome-control-center/gnome-system-tools a while back. Lots of things have changed in the gnome packages in Hardy (many related to PolicyKit/ConsoleKit). moblin-applets needs to sync up. I filed one bug (#203311) on Date/Time that is an example, there are probably others.
<bfiller> I'm concerned about this being a general problem for each release. How will this be managed? Seems a better approach would have been not to fork, but to create patches and get them included in Gnome. Gnome Mobile would most likely be interested.
<lool> I suppose ToddBrandt would have an opinion on that
<lool> ToddBrandt: ^
<ToddBrandt> reading
<ToddBrandt> bfiller: yea I've seen alot of those upgrades, some are pretty neat
<ToddBrandt> we'll keep that in the wishlist for now
<ToddBrandt> until all the bugs are done with
<ToddBrandt> which should be very soon
<bfiller> ToddBrandt: keep what in the wishlist?
<ToddBrandt> bfiller: pulling in some of the gnome-control-center 20.1+ upgrades
<bfiller> ToddBrandt: I don't think it's a wishlist thing. I think it has to be done otherwise some things won't work..
<bfiller> ToddBrandt: like Date/Time settings
<ToddBrandt> bfiller: actually I've completely revamped date/time for 0.47 mooblin-applets, it looks nothing like gnome-control-center anymore
<ToddBrandt> we'll take it on a case by case basis
<bfiller> ToddBrandt: so it doesn't use gksu to launch the applet anymore?
<ToddBrandt> bfiller: nope, I added moblin-system-daemon, which runs as root, and has a connection to the system backends and the touchscreen driver
<ToddBrandt> bfiller: So now all the low level stuff that used to requre gksu and root access go through a DBUS api to moblin-system-daemon
<ToddBrandt> things run much more smoothly this way
<lool> Where's the access policy defined?
<bfiller> ToddBrandt: sure that probably works. But I guess my point is Hardy and Gnome do it a different way now and we are not taking advantage of it..
<ToddBrandt> Well, I just expose 6 DBUS functions to the user domain, any user space app can access the daemon
<davidm> 4 minute warning
<lool> (a root running daemon which you can talk to over dbus makes my security ears beep)
<davidm> loudly I might add
<ToddBrandt> Mithrandir suggested it way back when
<ToddBrandt> I was going to update the sudoers file but that got poo-pooed
<lool> Well in GNOME it's like that *but* there's policykit/consolekit to actually grant dbus access
<lool> But perhaps we're far of the original topic
<ToddBrandt> I'm sure there's always something else we have to add, send me a pointer to an example and I'll take a look
<lool> If bfiller allows me to reword: is moblin-applets a perpetual fork, or will you rebase?
<bfiller> lool: yes, good question
<ToddBrandt> perpetual fork, we will rebase only for things we really like
<ToddBrandt> the intent is for moblin-applets to split off completely and be very MID specific
<lool> ToddBrandt: Will you look into cherry picking these regularly, or are you expecting to be requested to do this?
<ToddBrandt> not regularly, only in extremely rare instances
<davidm> 1 minute warning
<lool> bfiller: Does that answer the question?
<bspencer> lool: the merging with Hardy hasn't been on our plate.  We haven't scoped that for moblin-applets.  We'll chat about that and let's talk again next week
<bfiller> lool: it does, but I can't say I agree with the approach. Will be very problematic to maintain
<bspencer> davidm:  action:  ToddBrandt to talk to bspencer and mawhalen about this task and bfiller and lool, etc.
<lool> bspencer: It's not about hardy I think, but rather about upstream's module
<lool> bfiller: I do agree with you
<bspencer> lool: I see.  Well then it is a wishlist item -- to be done later.
<davidm> bspencer, actually lool is chairing the meeting
<lool> I think it's a question of long term strategy
<bspencer> davidm: oh.  you were such a consistent reminder of time.
<lool> bspencer: I don't understand the action
<bspencer> lool: ToddBrandt has no direction to get hardy working 
<bspencer> with moblin-applets
<lool> bfiller: Perhaps an UDS session is a better place to discuss this?
<bfiller> lool: sure
<lool> bspencer: I'm not sure it's related to hardy at all
<davidm> action:  ToddBrandt to talk to bspencer and mawhalen about the merging with Hardy and bfiller and lool, etc.
<bspencer> as far as upstream, I think the task is quite a bit more involved as we have to consider our long-term strategy for applets.
<lool> Well if everybody want that action that I don't understand, you'll get it :)
<bfiller> bspencer: but doesn't moblin-applets have to work properly with Hardy?
<bspencer> lool: so UDS is a good place to discuss.
<lool> [action] ToddBrandt to talk to bspencer and mawhalen about the merging with Hardy and bfiller and lool, etc.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ToddBrandt to talk to bspencer and mawhalen about the merging with Hardy and bfiller and lool, etc. 
<bspencer> bfiller: I think it does for you, yes.
<ToddBrandt> bfiller: yes, but not necessarily in concert with gnome-control-center's latest
<ToddBrandt> it's a compeltely separate package now
<bspencer> lool:  bfiller   I see two separate issues:  working in hardy.   patches upstream.
<bfiller> bspencer, ToddBrandt : ok, so specific bugs will be fixed but independent of gnome?
<bfiller> bspencer: yes
<ToddBrandt> yes, exactly
<bspencer> bfiller: in the short term, yes.  
<lool> bspencer: There's the overall "fitting with a modern GNOME platform" issue which you can connect with "staying relevant" :)
<bspencer> absolutely.  
<bfiller> bspencer: works for me
<lool> bfiller: topic closed?
<bfiller> lool: yes
<lool> [topic] davidm: How many Intel folks have their UDS plans made?
<MootBot> New Topic:  davidm: How many Intel folks have their UDS plans made? 
<bspencer> can you post a link to the UDS info?
<lool> So, rustyl_, bspencer, ToddBrandt, sabotage ...
 * agoliveira thought davidm has asked something in the "light bulb change" line
<lool> bspencer: I'm actually surprized that I can't find one
<lool> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-intrepid isn't very helpful
<bspencer> ok.  where and when ?
<lool> We have a private page at Canonical
<lool> Oh, renamed
<lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid
<rustyl_> lool, i don't know the travel plans for UDS
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid
<davidm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid?highlight=%28UDS%29
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid 
<bfiller> bspencer: Prague, May 18-25
<lool> Geez, you weren't put in the loop?
<davidm> It's pretty important to attend.
<bspencer> bfiller: lool  we'll discuss.  I don't know yet about our plans.
<davidm> I've suggested folks to  Mauri and Don
<bspencer> but I have never been to Prague.  I know if rusty can go all will be well.
<bspencer> all hail rusty.
<lool> The more Intel folks, the better :)
<lool> This is a great occasion to sit face to face, and we have a whole week of coffee and biscuits to discuss or spec things
<amitk> lool: we are going to Prague and you want to drink coffee?
<lool> You'll need to mention your personal interest in sessions you care about, and the big computer should compute the best planning for all of us
<lool> amitk: Heh
<lool> bspencer, rustyl_: Could you please gather interest in attending UDS Prague / Intrepid, and also you can start brainstorming about what you'd like to discuss
<lool> You're also welcome to register blueprints immediately
<bfiller> amitk: :)
<lool> Even if only high level
<lool> davidm: Topic closed?  Did you want to discuss anything in particular?
<lool> Ok, ending the meeting then
<lool> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:11.
<davidm> Time to join Dons call
<lool> bspencer, rustyl_: I'd like to mention I'll attend over phone the Moblin 2.0 event
<bspencer> lool:  great.
<lool> bspencer, rustyl_: I understand it's like a counterpart to our UDS, but it wasn't efficient for me to come physically and be in a bad sleeping state in the whole day of Moblin 2.0; I hope it will be manageable over phone
<bspencer> lool: no problem.  We'll remember to call the bridge 
<amitk> jay: I'm heading out for some emergency grocery shopping before Finland shuts down until Tuesday. I'll send kernel configs in email.
<lool> bspencer, rustyl_: If you organize such events regularly, perhaps every 6 months, I think I could be in a better state of attendance if I could come for more days; for instance a 3 days event, I'd come one day upfront, sleep, etc.
<pat_mcgowan> bspencer, David and I will be attending next week FYI
<jayc> amitk: sure
<ToddBrandt> lool: wrt to the security policy, can you point me to some documentation or an example on how to implement that? Is there a way to set up dbus to only work with a certain user or only from a certain collection of apps?
<lool> ToddBrandt: Kind of
<lool> ToddBrandt: My understanding is that policykit is inspired by macosx security framework
<lool> ToddBrandt: Check /etc/dbus-1/system.d/NetworkManager.conf
<lool> ToddBrandt:         <policy at_console="true">
<ToddBrandt> lool: we have a conundrum in moblin wrt to security vs convenience, logging in as root is unacceptable so I have to find some middle ground
<lool> ToddBrandt: This tells dbus to use policykit to check whether the user is in front of the active session
<ToddBrandt> policykit, is that another daemon?
<lool> Not really
<lool> ToddBrandt: I think you should read doc onthe policykit website
<lool> http://hal.freedesktop.org/docs/PolicyKit/ might be a good read
<lool> (design overview)
<ToddBrandt> yea I just saw that, first link in google
<ToddBrandt> is it related to HAL?
<ToddBrandt> oh, that's something I could read, gotcha, thanks!
<lool> It can check things in hal
<lool> ToddBrandt: Same kind of checks to allow access to the interfaces of hal is done in its dbus config
<lool> ToddBrandt:   <!-- You can change this to a more suitable user, or make per-group -->
<lool>   <policy user="0">
<lool> This means only root can use these
<lool>   <!-- Only root or user haldaemon can own the HAL service -->
<lool>   <policy user="haldaemon">
<lool> etc.
<ToddBrandt> Yea I saw that the system backends have a debug interface that can be exposed to the user, that's why I didn't touch that
<lool>   <!-- Allow everything, including access to SetHostName to users of the group "netdev" -->
<lool>   <policy group="netdev">
<lool>     <allow send_destination="org.freedesktop.Avahi"/>
<lool> etc.
<lool> ToddBrandt: So I think this is how you should access control it
<ToddBrandt> ok, I'll take a look
<lool> ToddBrandt: have fun!
<ToddBrandt> lool: heh, thanks ;)
<Raseel> I'm trying to install a Project using image-creator for the first time. How long does it usually take ?
<bspencer> Raseel: the majority of the time is downloading all the packages, so it depends on your connection, and your computer speed
<bspencer> I have a great quad-core and a local mirror of hardy and gutsy, so it takes me about 4mins
<bspencer> but before that it took upwards of 30-60mins.
<bspencer> most of the time just waiting though.
<Raseel> bspencer:Yeah. So how much data is downloaded ? In MBs ?
<bspencer> hm, not sure.  But the image that is created on a compressed filesystem is ~500MB.
<bspencer> so I guess about 1GB
<bspencer> I could be way off though
<Raseel> Wow !!!! That much ?
<bspencer> how big is hardy ?  It downloads the full mobile distribution packages.
<Raseel> Then maybe even I should set up a local mirror first and then go about trying to create a build nvironment
<bspencer> after you do it once, though, creating images is fast.
<bspencer> HappyCamp have you ever documented a BKM for creating a mirror for mobile ?
<GrueMaster> I think there is a bkm on mirroring up on moblin.org
<lool> BKM?
<lool> Best Known Method?
<bspencer> yep
<lool> I use squid here, it allows me to limit how much disk space I want to give to caching and it will keep the most recent objects only
<GrueMaster> pat_mcgowan: ping.  Don said you wanted CB info?
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, I had asked how to query a system to know what chip revs are present
<GrueMaster> lspci should give you the chipset stepping.
<GrueMaster> Rev 6 is D1, Rev 5 is D0, etc
<GrueMaster> you can get the cpu info from /proc/cpuinfo
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, thanks
<pat_mcgowan> I think Poulsbo is generally in lock step with the cpu
<GrueMaster> Not necessarily.  The current (latest) is C0 SLT, D1 PSB
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, you around, more camera questions
<GrueMaster> I'm here.  Not awake, but here none-the-less.
<GrueMaster> what's up?
<GrueMaster> pat_mcgowan:  you rang?
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, hey, trying to narrow down our camera issue
<GrueMaster> k
<pat_mcgowan> it works on C0, not on D1, how come?
<GrueMaster> I've been tied up with video driver and helix testing, but I will load your image here in a few and look.
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, we are trying to figure out if there was some change to the USB interface, or the latest BIOS, or what
<GrueMaster> I know there were some fixes in D0/D1 sil for USB.  USBc is still apparently broken, though.
<GrueMaster> Is this on CB or ODM hardware?
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, we have C0 and D1 CB, and D1 OEM
<pat_mcgowan> only C0 CB is working with the latest software
<GrueMaster> Ok.  On the D1 CB, which bios do you have?
<pat_mcgowan> v70
<GrueMaster> See if there is an update available.  I have 73, and found a video issue with earlier bios versions on D1.
<pat_mcgowan> on ARMS?
<pat_mcgowan> I dont think so
<GrueMaster> You'll have to talk to either Don or whomever is your TME.  I can't put it up there for you.  They'd tar and feather me, then strap me to a flag pole.
<GrueMaster> I just imaged a drive with your 0313 image.  I'll try it against bios 73, and also against newer video drivers and see if I see a difference.
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, great
<GrueMaster> So what's with the X loop?
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, best if you can first reproduce our failure of course
<GrueMaster> endless respawn.
<pat_mcgowan> What X loop?
<pat_mcgowan> oh yeah, touchscreen enabled
<GrueMaster> Ah.
<GrueMaster> That's right
<pat_mcgowan> you need to disable the touchscreen in the conf
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, we just loaded an old BIOS on the oem unit, and camera worked
<GrueMaster> I wish the default would to be not to respawn X.  
<GrueMaster> Interesting.
<pat_mcgowan> really old version
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, our C0 that works is running BIOS v67
<GrueMaster> Ok, I'm not seeing an issue with default image and bios 73.  I'll downrev to 70 now and see if it shows up.
<pat_mcgowan> Hmmm
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, please email me your results
<GrueMaster> rgtr
<GrueMaster> I'm just booting into gui now w/ bios 70.
<pat_mcgowan> I worry it only happens with our higher res camera
<GrueMaster> No, it looks like cheese is bombing out on me with bios 70.  I'm also seeing the video shake, which is what I saw here on other tests with that bios.
<pat_mcgowan> Cool, thats it then
<pat_mcgowan> Do you have errata list for 70 to 73?
<pat_mcgowan> I will ask Don to get me the new version
<GrueMaster> I do, but it's mostly internal info.  I have to watch what I give out, being the absolute lowest on the totem pole.
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, well thanks for your help, you are highest on our totem pole
<pat_mcgowan> talk to you tomorrow
<GrueMaster> :D
<GrueMaster> See ya.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-03-21
<bspencer_> lool, ping.
<bspencer_> what is the mobile dev package called?
 * bspencer_ searches
<virtuald> ubuntu-mobile-dev
<lool> bspencer_: as virtuald said :)
<bspencer_> lool, thx
<\sh> is it just me, or is ports download very slow today?
<agoliveira> \sh: Ports is usually slow from here too.
<\sh> agoliveira: it's mirroring since yesterday evening...
<\sh> agoliveira: you rebuilt claws-mail_3.3.1-1ubuntu2 and you say it's working and not ftbfsing anymore? :) if so, I'll upload it now
<agoliveira> \sh: Yes, it worked fine here.
<\sh> agoliveira: ok...I can't wait until lpia archive is down on my harddrive..ports is broken somehow :(
<agoliveira> \sh: Go on with it :)
<\sh> agoliveira: stay tuned, check -changes ;)
<agoliveira> Cool
<agoliveira> \sh: Hmmm... I'm also unable to reach ports.ubuntu.com... damn...
<\sh> I asked on #canonical-sysadmin already
<\sh> agoliveira: uploaded...
<agoliveira> \sh: Cooly!
<\sh> how do I activate claws mail now in this lpia environment ? :) I tested it yesterday at work...and the whole theme thingy looked weired ;)
<agoliveira> \sh: Just buind on it and the resulting binary should come up all setup already.
<agoliveira> s/buind/build
<\sh> agoliveira: so when I click on this email button claws should show up...
<agoliveira> \sh: Ooops, not really. You have to check if the link is correct. Claws don't change it.
<\sh> agoliveira: will test it when I get the ports download ready 
<\sh> and somehow I need to check where I get those gadget like those n8xx series models :)
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-03-22
<Servergod> Hi all.
<Servergod> Would anyone like to experiment with an HTC Apache?
<eleftherios> Servergod: HTC Apache?
<eleftherios> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Apache
 * Servergod is away, auto-away after 15 minutes, (log\off pager\on)
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-03-23
<dns53> is there anyone around to chat about ubuntu mobile?
<trini8miam1> hello ppl 
<trini8miam1> does any body know were i can get one
<eleftherios> trini8miam1: get what one?
<trini8miam1> ubuntu mobile device
<yeonhoo_> heelo!
<eleftherios> I am not sure there are any in the market yet
<yeonhoo_> can I install ubuntu mobile on LG ks20?
<trini8miam1> oh
<yeonhoo_> i have been searching about that but i didnt find anything
<trini8miam1> is the software out 
<yeonhoo_> somebody can help me ?
<trini8miam1> is the mobile os out for download
<yeonhoo_> trini8miam1,  are you talking with me? 
<trini8miam1> anybody 
<yeonhoo_> trini8miam1,  i have question about that too
<yeonhoo_> my phone os is brazilian version without wifi support but in european OS there is wifi support. Can I change OS ??
<yeonhoo_> and can I find OS for download?
<yeonhoo_> trini8miam1,  could you give me some idea?
<trini8miam1> all i realy know about is the openmoko and yes there have been ppl then have been able to put it on other devices
<yeonhoo_> trini8miam1,  what is ppl ? 
<trini8miam1>  yeonhoo_: people
<trini8miam1> yeonhoo_: http://www.openmoko.com
<yeonhoo_> trini8miam1, apreciate your help :)
<trini8miam1> thats the openmoko site
<trini8miam1> tell me if you get any progerss 
<trini8miam1> very interested 
<yeonhoo_> trini8miam1, ok :) i always will be here
<trini8miam1> kool 
<yeonhoo> its possible to install ubuntu in LG ks20??
<yeonhoo> give me idea?
<Glock7> anyone know sprint's apn?
<snookie_> Anyone around?
<m-c> yes, but they aren't at all responsive.  if you post an interesting question, then you may get a response.
<m-c> I watch this channel and all day people ask if anyone is here.  Today, I feel charitable, snookie_
<snookie_> well thank you
<snookie_> maybe it's my name?
<snookie_> really appreciate it.
<snookie_> I'm really interested in the progress of this project and I'm interested in using this on a FPGA running microblaze
<snookie_> Wondering if I can talk to someone about the details of getting it up and running on that specefic processor, or maybe it's to much of a long shot and I'd be better off using the PPC core in the fpga
<m-c> I'd think that if you don't get a response in 5 minutes, then you won't get a response.  But you may want to idle in the channel waiting for someone else with a similar interest.
<snookie_> will do
<snookie_> are you on the team?
<m-c> Many Ubuntu teams have a more active mailing list than chat channel.  It is the same for this group, too.
<snookie_> ah, okay
<m-c> No, I'm not on the team.  I have just lurked here for the last couple weeks, because I was curious about the project.
<snookie_> m-c: you're awesome
<m-c> I look forward to when we have cell phones running with open technology.
<trini8miam1> so does anybody know if i can pu linux on a itouch  
<trini8miam1> or anything like htat 
<snookie_> you have to go to the iphone devteam
<snookie_> i would go to the #iphone channel, don't ask the dev's they'll just kick you out
<snookie_> but it's a matter of time
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-03-16
<jack__> lool, ogra, or NCommander... Are you around?
<NCommander> jack__, I am
<jack__> Good to see you here...
<jack__> Have you read through the above?
<jack__> Is this a discussion we can have by email?
<jack__> NCommander?
<NCommander> jack__, which discussion specifically?
<NCommander> oh
<jack__> I guess you cannot see the multiple posts above... that said, David Mandala sent me here as he is on vacation, to get some quick answers re: the i.MX515 port...
<NCommander> right, no, I saw that
<jack__> I am leading a hardware project for a major CHina company that has just committed to Freescale, and I'm the guy who has to coordinate the software + hardware decisions and dev plan from our side. 
<NCommander> Righjt
<jack__> I have a small flurry of specific questions.
<NCommander> Sure
<NCommander> I can answer some questions.
<jack__> My first is to what degree is the graphics being run in the OpenGL ES 2.0 and OpenVG1.1 cores?... what degree of optimization? Enough to support Compiz, or a subset of Compiz functionalities?... or, amd I just dreaming?
<NCommander> At the moment, there is no hardware acceleration support on the MX51
<jack__> Actually, I guess my more fundamental question is if we're talking about Netbook Remix here, or Desktop?
<NCommander> huh?
<jack__> OKay... "at the moment." Is the dev roadmap aimed at making this a priority for 2009?
<jack__> I do not even know what version/flavor of "Ubuntu" is being ported, my friend. This project landed on my desk 3-days ago.
<NCommander> jack__, I'm not sure if I can answer that, I recommend asking David on the roadmap question.
<NCommander> As for the version and favor
<NCommander> The 9.04 release of Ubuntu will be the first with the ARM port (development snapshots are available)
<jack__> I'll do that. He says he'll have occasional email while traveling...
<jack__> So, it's the Desktop flavor...
<jack__> What's the barroer to then porting the Netbook Remix flavor?... substantial?... trivial?
<NCommander> Well, there is one repository for Ubuntu, which contains the desktop, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, etc.
<NCommander> UNR is compiled for ARM
<jack__> Okay... I knew that much... :-) I'm asking for a i.MX515-specific answer
<NCommander> All packages expect the kernel are shared across all supported boards
<jack__> So... once the port of 9.04 is done, the others are "automatically" also done?
<NCommander> Well, all the variants exist in our repos, so pretty much.
<NCommander> jack__, how much do you know about Ubuntu itself?
<jack__> I'm a Mac guy who has flirted with Ubuntu on and off as a user for several years... have an old Dell laptop here wiht Hardy Heron on it.
<NCommander> ah
<jack__> So... the basics, fomr that perspective. But..
<jack__> I am also a CE industru project manager who has more than a dozen PC architecture designs, including a Linux PowerPC architecture on my resume. I know how PCs work and how the parts all fit together wiht the software.
<NCommander> right
<jack__> I'm just at that "first few days" on this one and am tryign to get dialed into the variables I'll have to be chasing.
<NCommander> sure
<jack__> We'll be doing all of the non-reference low-level device code from our side.
<NCommander> I can understand that.
<jack__> Give me an email address and I'll email a PDF showing the product we're discussing. Or, email me at jack@aboutjack.com and I'll reply.
<NCommander> jack__, michael.casadevall@canonical.com
<jack__> Done.
<jack__> Obviously: Confidential
<NCommander> jack__, sure
<jack__> I'll hang around for any reactions...
<NCommander> jack__, check your private messages ;-)
<jack__> LOL... I don't know how.
<NCommander> jack__, what IRC client are you using?
<jack__> Nevermind... I figured it out.
<lool> jack__: We have no 2D/3D acceleration at the moment; we rely on FSL for drivers
<jack__> Hi lool
<jack__> Yes, I had an extensive private chat with NComander earlier...
<jack__> I've since gone back and forth with the Freescale guys again, and we're going to tackle the OPen GL ES and OpenVG 1.1 drivers ourselves
<jack__> We'll very, very likely draw Caonnical into this effort, too.
<lool> jack__: Nice
<jack__> Michael says you are more familiar with the status of UNR?
<jack__> In a perfect world, once the kernel work is done to get 9.04 running on the i.MX515, we could move it over and get UNR running on the chip.
<jack__> Your opinion of the challenge involved?
<jack__> Yes. I know we need the graphics core drivers, first.
<jack__> I'm aiming about 10 seasoned low-level Linux guys at that problem this week.
<jack__> Me thinks that a 10.2 inch 1024x600 LCD screen 1GHz ARM Cortex product would be much more usable and "correct" with UNR, not 9.04
<jack__> Got your email. WIll switch to there.
<fta> i'm having a problem with the mid lpia image (a6) on a samsung nc10.
<fta> just after squashfs is loaded, i get a bunch of "FAT: Filesystem panic (dev sdb)", and it stops there
<fta> the unr image worked just fine.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-03-17
<kinja-sheep> Anybody here?
<kinja-sheep> I'm trying to figure if I can get Ubuntu Netbook Remix?
<kinja-sheep> More specifically -- Which isn't for touchscreen?  MID or UMPC?
<lool> kinja-sheep: We don't have UMPC anymore
<lool> It was only in intrepid
<lool> kinja-sheep: You could consider both MID and UNR; UNR requires 3D
<crevette> hello
<davmor2> lool: I did an install last night forgetting that ubiquity was borked.  D'oh so I'll try again today.  I can't get the atheros wireless to install so I get no wifi.  Jockey goes through the process but once you reboot jockey lists it as not installed again.  I know this could be down to the install maybe not being complete, which is why I'll try again today but I would of thought that was an important thing to have 
<lool> davmor2: On what are you installing?
<davmor2> Acer Aspire One the one I had at Oxford
<lool> k
<davmor2> lool: I'll try it again today incase anything didn't get installed because of the poorly ubiquity.  But the rest of the install seemed fine :)
<davmor2> I'm happy to see install in favourites :)
<davmor2> and the duped apps have gone :) 
<crevette> hey lool 
<davmor2> oh and lool I could shutdown the machine :) Yay
<lool> Eh
<lool> Hey crevette 
<crevette> is there people here interested by testing latest bluez release 4.33? this is mostly bugfixes
<davmor2> lool: you about still?
<davmor2> Guy unr jaunty isn't enabling the atheros 802.11 wifi on an acer aspire one so there is no wifi listed.  Jockey seems to install it.  Jockey then tells you to restart.  When the desktop comes back up still no wifi and jockey gives you the option to enable it again
<lool> davmor2: Instead of jockey, try installing linux-backports-module
<lool> *modules
<davmor2> lool: will do
<lool> davmor2: Albeit in jaunty I expect all atheros to be supported with the kernel rather than lbm or proprietary
<davmor2> lool: that would be nice :)
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-03-18
<davmor2> lool: I now have functioning led on wifi but still no wifi :(
<lool> davmor2: Does it show up on lspci?
<davmor2> Wifi is list if I do iwconfig though which it wasn't before
<lool> Ok
<lool> davmor2: did you reboot after that?
<davmor2> lool: Yes still no wifi according to n-m
<davmor2> I get the 4 bars with a cross
<lool> davmor2: No idea, perhaps check your dmesg and look for other people having similar issues?  You could try bringing up the wiki by hand
<lool> davmor2: Did you check whether you have a wifi killswitch?
<davmor2> lool: I do have a switch but if I drop the hardy image back on it works and I've not switched it off in the mean time,  I'll try it to be sure though
<lool> davmor2: Unfortunately, the proprietary madwifi driver has bitrot as the opensource versions get all the attention now
<lool> davmor2: If they don't work, you should collect info and file a bug
<davmor2> lool: will do
<davmor2> I'll try a fresh install though and get info on the default driver first I think :)
<davmor2> lool: is there a command I can run to check which driver is powering a device at all?  or is that tied into lspci type commands?
<lool> davmor2: it's probably going to be in sysfs
<lool> davmor2: /sys/class/net/<intf name>
<lool> /device/driver should be a symlink to the module name
<lool> driver: symbolic link to `../../../../bus/pci/drivers/atl1'
<davmor2> lool: Thanks I'll get a bug together asap.
<davmor2> Meh today image doesn't want to boot :(
<daryl> Hello everyone, I wanted to try ubuntu-mid on a Web DT366 I just got. Its from DT research. 8 inch industrial touch panel computer. I was just wondering which version to choose for an amd 32 bit x86 cpu @533 and 512 of ram? I will be installing from usb cd-rom and to a 2 gig flash card.  
<daryl> Thanks for the topic of the day ogra. I'll try that iso. The web site is confusing if you dont have one of the two platforms mentioned. This thing was a hundred dollars on ebay. its a sound investment if anyone has a bill burning a hole in the pocket. 
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-03-19
<davmor2> lool: I might of found a fix I just need the image to work today to find out :)  https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/319825
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 319825 in linux "acer_wmi in Jaunty on Aspire One exposes non-functional (always disabled) rfkill device" [Medium,Triaged]
<lool> davmor2: Yeah, your situation seemed to be related to rfkill as you had a cross on your NM icon, not a blank one
<davmor2> I'll find out soon enough :)
<davmor2> lool: image seems to work today that's always a good start :)
<davmor2> lool: Yay I now have the net and a book I got a netbook :)
<lool> erf
<mcasadevall> davmor2, so your book can surf the net?
<davmor2> mcasadevall: It can now yesterday it was just a book (it had no net) now it's a netbook :D
<mcasadevall> ... I must be oldfashion
<mcasadevall> When I thought book, I thought the paper kind.
<davmor2> mcasadevall: No just me being a fool :)
<davmor2> lool: do you know off hand what password manager unr uses.  I was asked for a password to save my wifi wpa password.  This doesn't happen on the standard desktop though, so I'm not sure if it's a bug or design
<playya> wifi keys should be stored in gnome-keyring
<playya> the password schould be the original users password
<davmor2> playya: Not here it isn't :(
<playya> not you current password
<playya> the password of the user in the time it was created
<davmor2> playya: let me just restart and see if it asks for a password or not 
<davmor2> playya: Yes as soon as I reboot I'm asked for the password to unlock the keyring.  This didn't happen on Ubuntu or netbook remix on hardy so I'd say it was a regression
<lool> davmor2: NM stores wifi passwords, and I believed it was in g-k myself as well; it could be a different keyring though
 * ogra was always asked to set an initial PW when he had freshly installed and the system had wlan
<StevenK> davmor2: When I stored my wifi password, it asked me what the password should be, and I was able to set it to be blank.
<ogra> no matter if laptop or mid or unr
<davmor2> StevenK: And you got told off for having it be unsafe :)
<StevenK> davmor2: Right!
<davmor2> ogra: Yes but now I'm asked everytime I reboot for that password
<davmor2> ogra: I was never asked on Ubuntu,  Kubuntu yes it use kwallet but gnomes was always transparent
<ogra> weird, i was always asked to create one
<omegamormegil> Greetings!  I just obtained a a Dell mini, and I'm looking to do some Jaunty testing, but I'm not clear on which image to download.  Should I get Jaunty-mid which is for lpia, or jaunty-netbook-remix for i386?
<omegamormegil> It's an atom processor (lpia), but I was thinking the netbook remix UI was more appropriate.
<lool> omegamormegil: What Dell Mini do you have?
<omegamormegil> mini 9, came with ubuntu
<lool> omegamormegil: If you have non-poulsbo (GMA 500), I recommend UNR
<lool> Ok, UNR is the best choice then
<omegamormegil> Thanks.  
<omegamormegil> This device came with custom dell repositories with lpia software - what is the difference between using lpia which is compiled for this arch, vs i386.  Is lpia faster or something?
<omegamormegil> I haven
<omegamormegil> I haven
<lool> omegamormegil: lpia was supposed to make some difference, but wont make a lot right now
<omegamormegil> Still getting used to the keyboard :)
<omegamormegil> Alright.  I haven't been able to find much info online so far.  Thanks for the info.
<plars> omegamormegil: I have a mini 9 also and I'm running jaunty UNR on it
<omegamormegil> cool
<omegamormegil> Is there a wiki page with necessary workarounds, or does everything just work already?
<plars> omegamormegil: not for jaunty, not that I've seen at least
<omegamormegil> ok
<plars> there's this page for intrepid: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DellMini9
<omegamormegil> cool, I
<omegamormegil> I'll check it out.
<plars> omegamormegil: overall I'm happy enough with it to use it every day, a few kinks still to be expected given that we're in alpha 6 right now, but no big showstoppers for me on it at the moment
<omegamormegil> good.  I'm used to running alphas from previous releases, but I was a little worried about making my new toy temporarily unusable.  I'll probably take the plunge over the weekend.  
<plars> omegamormegil: if you aren't ready to go all the way with it, you can also run live off the usb stick
<plars> as with pretty much any netbook, it will run on the 512M that probably came with it, but is much nicer if you splurge for the $10-$25 and buy a 2G dimm to stick in it :)
<omegamormegil> Yeah.  I have a jaunty i386 alpha 6 on a usb stick I had created with usb-creator, but it wouldn't boot (I tried changing the boot order).  Any idea why?
<omegamormegil> Yeah, I might upgrade the RAM later.
<omegamormegil> The stick boots fine on my other laptop.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-03-21
<Stralytic> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/NetbookLauncherIdeas   << submitting this for feedback 
<persia> Stralytic, You might want to send that to the mailing list, just because not everyone reads scrollback, and it's quiet around here now.
<Stralytic> persia, yep, thanks. i was planning on doing that once i had some more material, eg, mockups
<persia> That makes sense.  I'm a fan of discussion early and often, but many find pictures easier than reading the thousand words :)
<Splex> I have tried imaging my usb drive with the umpc i386 img..   it will not boot
<Splex> other images boot from the device without troubles
<Splex> any idea how to make the image boot correctly?
<Splex> if i view /dev/sda with fdisk,  it returns a lot of errors about the partition tables being invalid
<Splex> /dev/sda does auto-mount and i can see all the files on it from the image
<persia> When you dd an image onto a USB drive, you'll generally break the partition table.
<persia> This shouldn't be an image.
<persia> s/image/problem/
<persia> That /dev/sda automounts (note that it's not /dev/sda1: it's not a partition) indicates the disk is OK.
<persia> What error do you get trying to boot?
<Splex> it simply skips past the usb device and boots from the drive
<Splex> i see the usb drive flashing
<Splex> so /dev/sdb is a filesystem in itself, thats what i thought
<Splex> i have also tried formatting the device with vfat and using unetbootin to add the image
<Splex> that failed
<Splex> sudo dd if=./ubuntu-8.10-umpc-i386.img of=/dev/sdb bs=1024
<Splex> thats the command i was using to transfer the image
<rZr> do u own this device http://www.stefanoforenza.com/chinese-mid-deploying-ubuntu-by-default/ ?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-03-22
<Splex> anyone here have the everun?
<Splex> persia: i finally figured out why my usb device wasn't booting.... i had to run lilo -M /dev/sdb to repair the MBR... apparently was corrupt 
<adityav> hi, i wanted to know if AIGO P8860 is supported by ubuntu-mobile
<Splex> anyone know if there is a page listing supported devices?
<persia> Splex, Good to hear.
<persia> adityav: There's some people who have had success with some AIGO devices: I'm not sure which ones.
<persia> Splex, If there is a page showing supported devices, it's probably out of date.
<Splex> persia: it doesn't work on my everun :(
<Splex> the screen is white and if i try to boot to the prompt, the keyboard doesn't even respond
<kblin> hi folks
<kblin> ah, wrong # :)
<DD26> Is there a way to get the touchscreen correctly calibrated on a Samsung Q1-Ultra?
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-03-22
<asac_> persia: so how do we apply for a package set?
<asac_> persia: for moz + browsers
<asac_> NCommander: in case you replied i might have missed it ;)
<asac_> NCommander: i have the soname changes done here .. just got stuck because the bmm_test failed - if you say thats normal i can just push it to the ppa
<asac_> NCommander: oh also ... what package depends on libbmm.so? you said there was one that had a blog so even reference that lib - which one was that?
<persia`> asac: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation : basically define the package set, define the initial uploaders, and apply to the TB.
<asac> persia`: the set would be mozillateam
<persia`> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozillateam gives me an error.  What's the team name?
<asac> persia`: "mozillateam" ;)
<asac> like i said
<asac> we can also make a -uploaders for the two/three that are in there that usually dont do uploads
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-03-24
<domi007_> hello everyone
<domi007_> I need help with X on my HTC Kaiser PDA...Ubuntu boots perfectly but X fails to load
<domi007_> anyone?
<domi007_> is anyone here?
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-03-26
<stinson47> hey
<stinson47> Just started messing around with the MID version of ubuntu, very cool.
<stinsonian> hey
<stinson47> I was hoping if somebody would be able to point me in the right direct. I'm looking to set up my netgear w111t usb wifi dongle, which i have no clue how to do in mid.
<lifeless> persia: what was the USB vga adapter you were playing with called/
<stinson47> sorry if i had any double post i was constantly getting disconected so i have no idea what went through
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-03-27
<mkarnicki> hi ubuntu-mobile devs!
<mkarnicki> i wanted to ask what is the scope of your work, but then I thought to myself.. you must have a wiki. sry ^ ^
<mkarnicki> is there anyone developing for Android by any chance?
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-03-28
<Invisrc> hey
<Invisrc> is anyone here at the moment
<Invisrc> hey
<Invisrc> anyone here
