#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-30
<ogra> they will have linux for it ;)
<tseng> hm yeah?
<tseng> ogra: that would rock so hard
<Mithrandir> I would be surprised if xbox didn't run some windows version, really.
<tseng> ogra: ms embedded linux
<ogra> hehe
<Mithrandir> that'd be scary; I'm really worried of MS using linux as the core and putting a proprietary GUI on it.
<tseng> Mithrandir: it just seems like it took them forever to even make it 64 bit compatible on a somewhat compatible cpu
<Mithrandir> tseng: not really, you get ia64-enabled windows.
<tseng> im sure they *could* do it on ppc
<Amaranth> Mithrandir: The Xbox uses a Win2k kernel.
<Amaranth> And Direct X, from what I've heard.
<Mithrandir> Amaranth: we're talking about xbox 360 here.
<ogra> Amaranth, on ppc ?
<Mithrandir> not the xbox 1.
<Amaranth> well, the NT kernel is highly portable...
<ogra> hmm
<Mithrandir> or so they claim.  It's less portable than it was.
<ogra> if portable means i can transport it on a floppy, then i agree....
<tseng> hah
<Mithrandir> USB sticks are more portable than floppies. :P
<ogra> lol
<Cybermagellan> Are there any specific guidlines/responisbilities to being a MOTU?
<crimsun> I still love floppy diskettes, though
<crimsun> Cybermagellan: yes, it's outlined on the wiki
<Cybermagellan> Yeah I am reading it....just wondering anything really specific
<crimsun> the recruitment page and the membership/maintainership pages should cover most of it
<Cybermagellan> I'm reading http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUTeams any other page I should read?
<crimsun> start with MOTU and branch from there
<tseng> Teams is a bit different
<ogra> yay, herve finally has tulip building
<tseng> and doesnt require actually being a motu
<tseng> to participate
<crimsun> yeah, anyone can join a Team
<ogra> Cybermagellan, MOTURecruitment or MOTUGettingInvolved
<tseng> this usb hub is bogus
<tseng> it keeps droping my usb hd and remount it
<tseng> hm openbsd has a port for my sgi o2
<Cybermagellan> is there a MOTU for Firefox/Thunderbird?
<crimsun> no
<crimsun> both of them are in main
<crimsun> we only take care of universe (with a couple exceptions: ogra, dholbach, and others soon can upload to main)
<Cybermagellan> So those packages are maintained by who?
<crimsun> by MOM
<Cybermagellan> MOM?
<crimsun> masters of main
<crimsun> no one person claims ownership, though certainly some people have their active packages
<crimsun> in this way, it's different from Debian
<Cybermagellan> Right...
<tseng> you can make a team for stuff in main
<tseng> just fix bugs and send them to the maintainer
<crimsun> yeah, patches are always welcome :)
<Cybermagellan> I don't know much about programming in Linux...and am new to Ubuntu...however I do know a good bit about project management....anything that I can do? Or should aim to?
<tseng> well i was thinking the other day
<tseng> we could probably use someone in a management capacity to triage/manage bugs
<tseng> mdz seems to be the only one doing it atm
<tseng> and he has more important things to be working on for sure
<crimsun> well to be fair, we're all supposed to be doing that ;)
<tseng> eh.
<Cybermagellan> Well I do project management for another company....so it's some experience I have
<tseng> so where is the "unassigned bugs" stored query
<crimsun> oh you mean the pile of stuff I haven't even looked at? ;)
<crimsun> bradb would probably know
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> i meant on bugzilla
<crimsun> oh, no clue
<tseng> malone doesnt even grok the word query
<ivoks> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AnteKaramatic - does this looks ok? :)
<tseng> (i know, he's fixing it)
<tseng> ivoks: yes
<tseng> ivoks: can you list cxx packages youve touched?
<crimsun> ivoks: my only suggestion is to list all the CXX packages you've worked with
<tseng> crimsun++
<ivoks> uh...
<crimsun> (yeah, even if it's a bunch, it helps the tech board grasp the scope of your involvement)
<ivoks> sources or packages? :)
<tseng> either is fine in this case
<ivoks> that's over 20 packages
<crimsun> that's cool, list 'em all
<tseng> definately
<crimsun> again, this is good for the TB
<tseng> it will *really* help if you go for MOTU
<tseng> to have a huge list of packages already fixed up
<tseng> that rocks.
<Amaranth> hey, i think it's been two weeks since the thing about mono was put in the topic ;)
<tseng> damn
<tseng> well
<tseng> im blocked by dbus and maybe cxx to fix the rest
<tseng> so it still applies :)
<Amaranth> yeah, libdbus-cil would pretty much have to be rewritten, wouldn't it?
<tseng> erm, no
<tseng> just that mono has to move to main
<tseng> so we can build the bindings in the dbus source package
<tseng> you cant pull build-deps to main from universe without seeding them
<tseng> it will FTBFS
<Amaranth> oh, libdbus-cil supports 0.33?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> i am already running it all
<Amaranth> cool
<Amaranth> it's there a special TB meeting coming up about that?
<tseng> not "special"
<tseng> just voting on letting me upload to main
<tseng> and dholbach too
<crimsun> that's a no-brainer "yes", really
<crimsun> even elmo thinks so
<tseng> heh
<tseng> no way elmo wants me anywhere near uploading
<tseng> i can hear him screaming across the atlantic.
<Amaranth> haha
<ajmitch> morning
<tseng> hi
<Cybermagellan> Well hey guys thanks for that information...I think I'll stick around
<tseng> great
<Cybermagellan> Hey travis
<ivoks> there... now is complete :)
<ajmitch> uploading to main is like a dream of mine ;)
<tseng> hm ive been using gnome-terminal for 2 days now without screaming
<tseng> thats a new record
<ajmitch> I had to switch away
<tseng> i hate this thing
<ajmitch> seems that it was causing or exposing a nice X leak
<tseng> everytime you resize it, screen is permafucked
<tseng> screen as in gnu screen
<crimsun> yeah, I hate that.
<ivoks> time to sleep
<ivoks> bye all
<ivoks> thanks for help
<crimsun> np
<ajmitch> bye ivoks
<tseng> ctrl+l and reset are useless
<crimsun> have to detach and reattach
<tseng> ya
<ajmitch> seemed to work ok for me
<ajmitch> ^A F
<tseng> oh yeah?
<ajmitch> tell screen to resize
<tseng> that prints "flow"
<ajmitch> not ^A ^F
<tseng> well in that case
<tseng> i get the same thing
<crimsun> I always have to reattach
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> ill grab urxvt one of these days
<ajmitch> using uxterm at the moment
<ajmitch> X seems to have stopped growing
<crimsun> that's interesting, since xterm is often cited as a hog
<crimsun> ;)
<Mithrandir> pterm's nice
<ajmitch> crimsun: it works as a temporary measure ;)
<tseng> hm thats trippy
<crimsun> ajmitch: absolutely. I use it occasionally
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: great, seems to work better than uxterm, too :)
* ajmitch kills off *xterm
<Amaranth> ajmitch: Did you ever get X working?
<ajmitch> Amaranth: haven't shut it down yet
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> someone on the forums claims to have gotten it working with a little symlink action and a reconfigure, i asked for more details
<ajmitch>  /usr/bin/X11 seems to have disappeared, so I'lll wait for an upgrade or two
<Amaranth> wow, yeah
<Amaranth> that's not good
<Amaranth> ln -s /usr/X11R6/bin/ /usr/bin/X11/ ?
<ogra> just do a reconfigure and let it generate a new config, that should be enough
<ajmitch> ogra: I think the /usr/bin/X11 problem is more than config :)
<ogra> nopwe
<ogra> these paths have to go, thats the essential part of the X modularization
<ogra> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/XRoadmap
<Amaranth> I thought /usr/bin/X11 was the new path
<ogra> nope, X and all apps will be in the default bin path (read /usr/bin/) eventually
<ajmitch> great, I've got a set of debdiffs now but some of them are just too big
<abarbaccia> hey all - do the motu support the multiverse as well?
<tseng> yes
<abarbaccia> okay - can i sudgest something then?
<abarbaccia> ubuntu is becoming increasingly popular for mythtv uses (PVR type thing - im sure you're familiar) - we have an old version of myth and I think we should change it
<crimsun> url?
<tseng> abarbaccia: eh
<tseng> abarbaccia: we have the latest version, dude. I think you misunderstand our release proceedures
<abarbaccia> can you clarify
<abarbaccia> because the latest version is 0.18.1, we have 0.17
<tseng> we make releases every since months
<tseng> when that release is out, no updates go in besides secuirty
<abarbaccia> okay, well I understand that
<tseng> we start the next branch
<tseng> so, that branch has newer upstream
<abarbaccia> is 0.18.1 in breezy yet?
<tseng> 0.18 is for sure
<abarbaccia> right now do you know?
<Amaranth> breezy considered harmful
<tseng> i said "0.18 is for sure"
<tseng> thats right now what I know
<abarbaccia> i run breezy on my other box - not too bad
<Amaranth> nope, i'm seeing 0.17
<tseng> it was uploaded
<tseng> weeks ago
<abarbaccia> let me update my sources
<tseng> check the build log
<crimsun> indeed, 0.18-1
<abarbaccia> wow - ubuntu is my new god(ess)
<Amaranth> 0.18 failed on all archs
<tseng> then id expect now that mdz is back
<tseng> at some point he will update it anf fix ftbfs
<Amaranth> it's an X thing
<tseng> ah right
<Amaranth> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXext
<tseng> yeah X is fucked
<Amaranth> i got X to actually run again
<tseng> mine wont start
<Amaranth> i had to, my system locked up
<abarbaccia> whats that?  0.18 doesnt work as or now
<abarbaccia> as of now
<Amaranth> ln -s /usr/X11R6/bin/ /usr/bin/X11 + a little xorg.conf editting got it working
<Amaranth> it was trying to use "Generic Mouse" and "Configured Mouse" but I only have the latter
<Amaranth> abarbaccia: Yeah, 0.18 failed to build because we're in the middle of massive changes to X.
<crimsun> abarbaccia: check back in a month, things will be much better :)
<Amaranth> btw, anyone know why lamont made the buildlogs use .bz2?
<tseng> disk space
<Amaranth> those don't open in firefox :/
<tseng> someone is working on that
<abarbaccia> alright - sounds good - maybe I can be the one to repackage it if someone teaches me because i've been hanging in here trying to figure it out for a while but no success
<Amaranth> i hope it isn't a patch to firefox, since i run nightlies :)
<crimsun> I use wget + vi
<crimsun> vim, sorry
<tseng> good call
<tseng> you could probably script the whole deal in curl
<tseng> or even wget | bzmore
<tseng> does piping stright to vim work?
<crimsun> not really
<crimsun> actually
<crimsun> cat foo | vim -
<ogra> http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs/
<ogra> but beware the big ones ;)
<ogra> night all
<lamont> Amaranth: actually, they're all .gz as of yesterday or so...  not going to switch the old ones to gz though.
* lamont goes back to spending time with family
<ajmitch> hi
<svenl> hi all.
<Amaranth> hi
<svenl> Hi.
<svenl> Well, i think it would be good to restart a hardware-monitor upload, so it gets rebuild with the latest breezy gnome libs.
<Amaranth> let's see how it failed
<Amaranth> it didn't fail to build...
<Amaranth> it just doesn't work?
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<blvszcz> helo
<\sh> ah rafal :)
<ajmitch> hi
<\sh> welcome on board :)
<ajmitch> one of your minions, \sh ?
<blvszcz> hello steph
<\sh> gentlemen, this is Rafal Zawadzki
<blvszcz> eh sh :)
* ajmitch waits patiently for bugzilla
<\sh> he is admin of jabberpl.org, and dev of pyrss, a rss aggregator jabber component
<\sh> and he wants to help us :)
<blvszcz> right
<\sh> blvszcz: short introduction is always nice :)
<blvszcz> :)
<svenl> Amaranth: sure, it fails to work. It tells something about OAF-blah.
<svenl> and pops up thousand of requesters.
<svenl> Amaranth: well, not thousands, but 3 or something such, but i was not able to close one of them since it insisted on coming back.
<svenl> Amaranth: i tried rebuilding it, and i believe it even fails to rebuild.
<Amaranth> well, we're in the middle of both an X migration and a C++ migration so things fail to build all the time :)
<svenl> Amaranth: sure.
<svenl> Amaranth: but it will not by miracle be fixed all alone, i believe.
<Amaranth> no, probably not
<Amaranth> what's the error message?
<svenl> I think the C++ migration or the rebuild of the gnome stuff may need someone looking into this and fixing it.
<svenl> wait.
<svenl> now cpufreq also stopped working :/
<svenl> /usr/include/gconfmm-2.6/gconfmm/setinterface.h:42: attention : class Gnome::Conf::SetInterface has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
<svenl> preferences-window.cpp: In member function Monitor* PreferencesWindow::run_choose_monitor_window(const Glib::ustring&):
<svenl> preferences-window.cpp:593: erreur: no match for operator* in *window
<svenl> make[2] : *** [preferences-window.o]  Erreur 1
<svenl> make[2] : quittant le rpertoire  /home/sven/ubuntu/hardware-monitor/hardware-monitor-1.2/src 
<svenl> but then i have a couple of gnome libs on hold.
<Amaranth> oh, it's a C++ app
<svenl> it is indeed.
<svenl> so probably cause by the c++ transition and the libgnome*mm stuff.
<ajmitch> more fun
<svenl> ah, and indeed, hardware-monitor was stopping those libgnome*mm packages to install.
<Amaranth> get those packages and try to rebuild again
<svenl> Amaranth: fails in the same way.
<svenl> oh, well, will probably forward this upstream.
<GheRivero> res people
* ajmitch returns
* ajmitch gets back to filing cxx transition bugs
<tseng> work time
<ajmitch> ogra: remove config.* cruft from diffs?
<\sh> hmmm...now I'm in the line of fire of the mpaa ;)
<ajmitch> ?
<\sh> i wrote a text about mpaa complaints
<\sh> losing revenues cause of bittorrent ;)
<Treenaks> \sh: ?
<tseng> what we really need is some kind of study of people who use bt
<Treenaks> \sh: blog?
<tseng> vs people who actually go to the movies
<tseng> im pretty confident that there isnt a huge overlap
<\sh> Treenaks: yep...check on the p.u.c
<Mithrandir> tseng: well, I do both.
<\sh> tseng: the problem is different
<\sh> tseng: mpaa complains about a star wars III copy, ripped from a dvd..
<tseng> i mean.. how many people that use bt would go to the movies if there wasnt bt
<Mithrandir> tseng: the sales which I am hurting is probably DVD sales, but I wouldn't buy DVDs anyhow.
<tseng> i download music and buy a ton of cds
<tseng> Mithrandir: there you go
<\sh> and those rips can only come from ppl who have the possibility to get them directly from the studies
<tseng> thats my question
<\sh> s/studies/studios/
<Treenaks> tseng: I wouldn't go more often.. same with music.. I won't buy more music if I can't also download
<tseng> \sh: id imagine they have to be aware of that part
<Mithrandir> I've stopped buying music because of DRM, mainly.
<tseng> i wont buy online because of DRM for one
<tseng> but more for lossy codecs
<\sh> tseng: no...they're not seeing this problem...before they blame the "normal" people, they should blame themselves...
<tseng> why would i pay the price for the ferrari and get a bmw
<tseng> is what selling 128kps music says to me.
<Mithrandir> that's not a BMW, it's a pair of socks.
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: drm? I've got one CD with DRM, and I got it free with some concert tickets or something
<tseng> well 128 aac is alot better than mp3
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: I haven't found DRM'ed "Real" CDs here yet
<tseng> Treenaks: sacds are drm
<Treenaks> tseng: sacd?
<Mithrandir> Treenaks: DRM-ed disks != CDs, as a start. :)
<tseng> and there have been several (failed) attempts to drm classic cds
<\sh> sacds?
<tseng> sacd is a 5.1 mix
<tseng> + drm
<Treenaks> tseng: do they play in plain/old CD players?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> as 2.1
<Treenaks> 2.0 probably
<Mithrandir> Treenaks: then, I can't be arsed to check whether the discs I'm buying are DRM-ed or not, since they mostly contain some infinitely small mark somewhere on the case.  Possibly.
<tseng> they dont play at all in cdroms
<Mithrandir> the net result is that I don't buy music.
<\sh> the problem is, you can't copy them digitally ...but there is always the possibility to copy them analog...and for mp3 thats enough
<Treenaks> tseng: I haven't seen any of those.. might be because I like music that's distributed by small labels :)
<\sh> same appears to digital tv etc.
<tseng> Treenaks: the nine inch nails - downward spiral rerelease was offered in sacd
<tseng> but im with you on small labels
<Treenaks> tseng: either that, or my dvd-rom drive just doesn't give a damn about "drm discs"
<tseng> anyway, dont buy sacd you cant rip it to mp3 and enjoy it on your pc or portable or anything else
<tseng> hooray for fair use
<\sh> btw...has anybody the possibility to give me access to an amd64 box with a nice updated breezy chroot or pbuilder?
<Mithrandir> \sh: sure.  Do you have a key signed by a DD?
<\sh> tseng: for what do i need 5.1 music for tankard music ;)
<\sh> DD?
<tseng> debian devel
<\sh> no
<tseng> any notable sigs?
<\sh> ogras
<tseng> that works
<\sh> heheh
<Mithrandir> sure, sign a mail, include you SSH public key, to: tfheen@err.no, cc maswan@acc.umu.se, include what you want as your user name and state that you'd like access to ravel.
<Mithrandir> your, even.
<\sh> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/739 this bug is quite interessting
<Treenaks> \sh: ask him to use debug-enabled binaries and libraries, and get a backtrace
<\sh> Mithrandir: send :)
<crimsun> dang, and I was hoping for a straightforward fix to Debian#309216 :/
<Treenaks> Has anyone created Ubuntu logo laptop stickers yet (like the Debian ones)
<ogra> Treenaks, i'd buy them... create some ;)
<Treenaks> DOH
<\sh> ogra: u need to hit the top three of the most active bug resovlers ,->
<ogra> \sh, hmm, includingthe uploads i do for you ?
<\sh> ogra: uploads? which packages? ,-)
<ogra> \sh, i'm still busy with ivoks... yours are next
<\sh> new packages or toreview?
<\sh> new packages u can forget first :)
<\sh> most of the stuff is c++ + kde
<ogra> \sh, everythin thats on the CXXLibrary page and not uploaded yet
<\sh> ogra: ah the bugs :)
<ogra> we need to come to an end with this transition...
<\sh> ogra: i have really difficulties with one library here....if you have time later on, lets have a look together on it
<\sh> build-deps conflicts + shitty patches etc.
<ogra> \sh, sure, but later... i'm in a meeting currently and afterwards i'll do the "low hanging fruit" upload...
<ogra> s
<\sh> ogra: no problem
<GheRivero> res people
<\sh> time to go home
<\sh> bbl
<ivoks> bye
<GheRivero> res
<\sh> re
<\sh> ok..renewing chroot
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> I: Validating libconsole
<\sh> E: Couldn't download libdb1-compat
<\sh> debootstrap 0.2.45ubuntu35
<\sh> for breezy
<elmo> debootstrap needs fixed; file a bug
<\sh> w8
<\sh> trying the new one
<elmo> debootstrap | 0.2.45ubuntu35 |        breezy | source, amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
<elmo> what new one?
<\sh> looks like i have to update my hoary first
<\sh> cause the new one has an unresolved dep on a glibc...w8
<\sh> if this is not working, i will do a debootstrap hoary and change apt-sources to breezy afterwars
<\sh> +d
<\sh> and file a bug :)
<\sh> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/59781
<\sh> wrong chan :(
<DanielN> :) habs verstanden ^^
<\sh> very interessting anyways :)
<DanielN> crazy guy
<\sh> hormel? they're only holding the TM for software, namely screen savers
<DanielN> yeah, i've read it
<ogra> Spam
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> Spam
<ogra> loool
<\sh> ogra: it's a nice one...i think i will order some shirts ;)
<DanielN> damn, theres a kernel update out ;(
<\sh> ok debootstrap ubuntu35 is not working at all on hoary
<ogra> \sh, and support these idiots ??
<\sh> ogra: no :) i will go to the next butcher and ask for shirts with "fruehstuecksfleisch(tm)"
<\sh> debootstrap ubuntu35 needs libc6 2.3.4-1
<ogra> \sh, thats like patenting "a process to clean your ass with paper after you've been at the toilet"
<DanielN> LOL
<\sh> libc6 on hoary: 2.3.2.ds1-20ubuntu13
<ogra> and since the US has no prior art law anymore, you even could do it ;)
<\sh> ogra: i should hurry and get a patent on it ;)
<DanielN> US law is crazy anyway :)
<ogra> yep... you would get very rich.....
<ogra> except in arabia
<\sh> and debootstrap ubuntu34 is broken :(
<ogra> why do you use 34 ?
<\sh> [18:27]  <\sh> debootstrap ubuntu35 needs libc6 2.3.4-1
<\sh> [18:27]  <\sh> libc6 on hoary: 2.3.2.ds1-20ubuntu13
<ogra> why do you buld _anything_ on hoary then ?
<\sh> and i updated right now my hoary after a while ;)
<\sh> i'm trying to get a chroot again ;)
<ogra> we only do packages for breezxy
<\sh> and those two debootraps are with breezy files
<\sh> see https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DebootstrapChroot
* ogra doesnt use chroot... pbuilder is sufficient
<DanielN> ugh .. i should "overthink" my when package again in this case :/
<\sh> i think ogra is right, at least for my laptop ;) after I get my 160gb usb2 hd I will build my chroot again ;)
<\sh> ogra: schnucki, which bootstrap  r u using on hoary for pbuilding breezy? ;)
<\sh> *whizzle*
<\sh> istribution is breezy.
<\sh> Building the build environment
<\sh>  -> running debootstrap
<\sh> E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/breezy.buildd
<\sh> pbuilder: debootstrap failed
<\sh> harhar ;)
<ogra> \sh, the one that gets installed on buildtime... i dont need to look at it, pbuilder cares if i run pbuilder update regulary  ;)
<\sh> pbuilder depends on debootstrap ;) and the hoary doesn't know anything about breezy ;) so i need at least debootstrap ubuntu34 ;)
<ogra> \sh, build a hoary pbuilder environment and update to brezy then
<ivoks> hi
<\sh> if I have no work at all, i will create work for myself...
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> hmm..troll time on #ubuntu
<ogra_d> \sh, against which version of libcorelinux is your patch ? i cant apply it...
<\sh> 0.4.32-5
<\sh> the one from yesterday i think
<ogra_d> hmm
<ogra_d> oh... -p4 works, hehe
<\sh> hu?
<\sh> debdiff orig.dsc new.dsc
<\sh> thats the result ;)
<ogra_d> the path was a bit long...
<ogra_d> didnt recognize it...
<\sh> well
<\sh> arkrpg will be my waterloo
<ogra_d> lol, and i shouldnt expect patches to be applied after a --dry-run
<\sh> I made something wrong?
<ogra_d> nope, just my dumbness :)
<\sh> ogra: good to here ,)
<\sh> but i think i missed one or two conflicts or replaces
<\sh> I'm not sure
<ogra> \sh, nope, its ok
<\sh> ogra: there r more ;)
<ogra> what i'm wondering is why you did put config.sub and .guess in dar
<\sh> did I
<\sh> moment
<ogra> yep, in the patch... instead of copying them from /usr/share/misc and build-depend on autotools-dev
<\sh> w8...u will get a new patch...this i didn't see sorry...:(
<ogra> np
<ogra> just update the bug :)
<\sh> on it :)
<\sh> what is the size of an main+universe mirror?
<Amaranth> Source file is a bz2 but bzip2 or gzip not available at /usr/bin/dh_make line 409, <STDIN> line 2. <--what would this mean?
<Lathiat> for i386, no sources, ~14G
<thom> Amaranth: you've not got bzip2 installed? ;-)
<Amaranth> yes
<\sh> Lathiat: hmmm...
<\sh> this is easy
<ogra> Amaranth, build-depend on it :)
<Amaranth> ogra: dh_make is giving this error
<thom> ogra: dude, that's dh_make
* thom hugs his NIH mini-dh-make
<ogra> oops
<\sh> hahaa
<\sh> ogra: sudo apt-get install interdiff
<Amaranth> well, i have a debian/ dir already, can i just make a foo.orig.tar.bz2 and run with it?
<\sh> and I have config.sub in my diff
<\sh> without interdiff it's working correctly
<Amaranth> i mean, i have a debian/ dir i'm going to move in after dh_make
<ogra> \sh, oki.... drop interdiff i would say :)
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> ogra: you're welcome to dwn the new patch :)
<ogra> oki...
<\sh> but strange behaviour i must say
<ogra> err, did you submit it to #11046 ?
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=2493
<\sh> drop your browser cache...it's useless ;)
<ogra> hmm...
<ogra> i cant.... :(
<\sh> ??
<\sh> should I dcc it to u?
<ogra> thom, your dbg package is missing some functionallity ...
<Amaranth> arg, i got a native package
<thom> ogra: ym firefox-dbg?
<ogra> yep
<thom> yeah, i know
<ogra> just upgrading to theregular package....
<thom> good luck ;-)
<ogra> heh
<herve> hello fellow motus and motu-wanabee
<ogra> hi herve
<thom> i need to work out why it's crashy without debug but not with
<herve> (wannabe? sounds better!)
<\sh> hey herve
<thom> most annoying
<ogra> herve, "hopefuls"
<\sh> ../../include/maps.h:33: error: an explicit specialization must be preceded by 'template <>'
<\sh> aspseek
<herve> ogra, for sure it's better than "full of illusions!
<ogra> lol
<ogra> do you really think we leave room for illusions ?
<herve> I can't answer, I lost mine long ago
<ogra> heh
<\sh> argl...tomorrow is technical meeting right?
<herve> when? (gmt please :-))
<ogra> only fo things that need mdz and couldnt get discussed last time
<ogra> \sh, there is still a config.{sub,guess} in the patch, regardless in which browser i open it
<ogra> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=2493
<\sh> ??
<\sh> i need sleep moment
<herve> hibernation? :-)
<\sh> i don't get it.
<\sh> debdiff gives me this
<\sh> but u see that i copied it from usr/share/misc
<\sh> I'm really blind
<ogra> \sh, copy it at build time (in debian/rules)... not into the patch ;)
<\sh> ogra: it is
<\sh> +       cp /usr/share/misc/config.* .
<\sh> in the configure section before configure
<ogra> then delete these files from the source tree before diffing
<herve> hmm... segfault with synaptic
<\sh> ogra: and then debdiff will give you "- config.guess" ;)
<ogra> hmm, true... so dont touch them at all...
<\sh> ogra:funny thing? the first patch I didn't touch it in any ways
<\sh> argl
<\sh>         ifneq "$(wildcard /usr/share/misc/config.sub)" ""
<\sh>                 cp -f /usr/share/misc/config.sub config.sub
<\sh>         endif
<\sh>         ifneq "$(wildcard /usr/share/misc/config.guess)" ""
<\sh>                 cp -f /usr/share/misc/config.guess config.guess
<\sh>         endif
<\sh> in clean:
<\sh> moment
<ogra> heh... crazy
<ogra> but not as bad as poker3d
<\sh> as i said, i'm blind :(
<\sh> and if anything goes straight, we will have another jabber guru on board :)
<\sh> blvszcz: ping
<\sh> i don't get it
<\sh> ah
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> funny
<\sh> orig.tar has after diff.gz no config.{guess,sub}
<\sh> in the clean rule it creates them
<\sh> thats why u have them in the diff
<ogra> nope... your diff should only reflect _your_ changes, so they shouldnt show up there at all
<\sh> give it now another shot...it's ugly but i will help
<\sh> ogra: not my fault :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i dont care about any faults....just want to have that list done, to finally be able to do my actual work
<ogra> without doko poking me all day :)
<\sh> well....
<Amaranth> what list?
<doko> ?
<ogra> Amaranth, Cxx transition :)
<Amaranth> isn't that, well, huge for universe?
<ogra> nah, the libs page is pretty sure done this week...
<Amaranth> wow
<Amaranth> rock
<Amaranth> then its just a matter of waiting for apps to rebuild/fixing apps so they rebuild?
<\sh> aspseek is quite annoying and arkrpg can't be finished until I have a nice xorg and correct build-deps
<ogra> as long as you guys go on to provide patches :)
<Amaranth> heh
<\sh> aspseek has no new patches since 2003 in the debian package and upstream
<ogra> Amaranth, nope... the library names have changed... we need to touch every app once
<Amaranth> i thought someone in debian had a bug report where they were supplying patches for all this stuff
<\sh> Amaranth: i checked CxxUniverseBla
<\sh> no debian patch at all
<\sh> last bugs.debian.org entry from 2003
<\sh> and cvsview of this project is from my site not reachable
<\sh> and when I'm done with pleasing ogra, i will take some other packages
<ogra> \sh, then i would consider it _very_ stable ;)
<Amaranth> or a dead project
<\sh> the latter
<ogra> thats the other name for it, yes ;)
<\sh> if I can't reach it tomorrow from office, I will write an remark: DROP IT ;)
<Amaranth> oh, i was supposed to wrap that in <sarcasm> tags, these things don't translate well
<\sh> i give up
<\sh> ok...last try for this minute ;)
<\sh> and german devs running away from gentoo...
<\sh> I think there is war in -core somewhere
<ogra> tell them they are welcome here ;)
<\sh> they won't come
<\sh> shit
<\sh> sorry
<\sh> nagra is broken again :( no ppv....have to go...
<\sh> bbl guys
<herve> Lathiat, ping
<herve> wow, doko and ogra really trusted breezy-changes today!
<herve> congrats for your good work, guys
<ogra> herve, no way i could cope with dokos mass uploads ;)
<herve> either he is not human, or he hired indian developers to work under hid name :-)
<ogra> herve, i guess doko has a crowd of little helpers in the cabinet
<herve> lamont, ping
<lamont> ack
<herve> given that report: http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs/?show=http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/t/tulip/2.0.2-4ubuntu3/tulip_2.0.2-4ubuntu3_20050523-1656-ia64-failed.gz
<herve> will it be tried again and again, I don't have anything to do but waiting?
<ogra> as long as glut's package names dont change....dunnop if daniels has to touch them too
<lamont> herve: I keep tossing lots of packages back.  at some point, I'll give _everything_ back, and we'll see what really falls out
<herve> lamont, ok there's a human behind it :-)
<herve> thanks!
<herve> er, another thing
<herve> this package was never built on powerpc
<herve> not even at the time of the sync with debian
<lamont> herve: if the build actually gets to dpkg-buildpackage, and gets retried, there was a human involved.
<lamont> (well, modulo SIGILL on ppc. :-)
<herve> it's disorienting not to see any build report on powerpc :-)
<herve> ogra, you wanted to make your build log list compatible with IE?
<ogra> herve, nope...
<ogra> herve, what makes you think that ?
<herve> the use of javascript for line highlighting
<ogra> herve, doesnt it work in IE (i havent one around) ?
<herve> it should
<herve> try "tr:hover { background: ...
<herve> less code, more pleasure :-)
<ogra> herve, i'll do.. once i'll touch it again... but regardthat i'm a big javascript fan ;)
<herve> ex-perl developer? :-)
<ogra> herve, yep
<thesaltydog> someone from ubuntu-devel asked me to join this channel for questions concerning my application...
<ogra> herve, i wrote tons of DB frontends
<ogra> herve, cgi/perl/javascript
<thesaltydog> php..
<ogra> bah
* ogra never touched php
<thesaltydog> it's a matter of what you need...
<ogra> herve, would you like to review thesaltydog's package ?
<thesaltydog> herve, hello.
<herve> a db front-end in javascript...
<herve> what is it about?
<thesaltydog> herve, no, please. perl is the best for that.
<lamont> micropolygon.cpp:41: error: declaration of 'Aqsis::CqMemoryPool<Aqsis::CqMicroPolygon, 512l> Aqsis::CqPoolable<Aqsis::CqMicroPolygon, 512l>::m_thePool' outside of class is not definition
<lamont> micropolygon.cpp:42: error: declaration of 'Aqsis::CqMemoryPool<Aqsis::CqMovingMicroPolygonKey, 512l> Aqsis::CqPoolable<Aqsis::CqMovingMicroPolygonKey, 512l>::m_thePool' outside of class is not definition
<lamont> aqsis wants love
<herve> thesaltydog, I listen to you
<thesaltydog> herve, I am the author of Ubuntu Bootup Manager. You know it?
<herve> hmm...
<herve> the graphical application for screwing up one's system? :-)
<thesaltydog> herve, yes that one.
<thesaltydog> herve, and with the last update including rcS it can screw up very well!
<herve> yoohoo...
<herve> well, you know my concerns
<herve> but technically speaking, I'll review your package
<herve> url?
<ogra> herve, its on UniverseCandidates
<ogra> afaik
<thesaltydog> http://www.marzocca.net/linux/ubm.html
<herve> ogra, that was a test ;-)
<ogra> at least abelli told me he added it
<ogra> herve, i didnt look myself yet :-P
<thesaltydog> and for docs use this http://www.marzocca.net/linux/ubmdocs.html
<herve> thesaltydog, package url!
<thesaltydog> herve, it is in UniverseCandidates
<herve> I'm afraid you failed the first test ;-)
<thesaltydog> herve, ?
<ogra> thesaltydog, we need a source .deb
* herve makes a bitch of himself
<thesaltydog> wait
<herve> ogra, I would expect it on NewPackages
<ogra> herve, hmm.. maybe
<thesaltydog> herve, http://www.marzocca.net/linux/downloads/ubm_1.2.5-0ubuntu1_all.deb
<herve> just a description on UC
<thesaltydog> herve, next week a new version with localization
<thesaltydog> herve, there is description and also a note from me on UC
<herve> there will always be a new version
<herve> I'm just here to evaluate the quality of the debianizing
<ogra> thesaltydog, a source .... thats a binary package... do you have a .dsc, diff.gz and orig.tar.gz for it ?
<herve> users will be your very own functionnal torture test
<thesaltydog> herve, it is perl-gtk2. The source is the program itself!
<herve> diff.gz! tell me you have a diff.gz!
<herve> you failed the second test ;-)
<herve> thesaltydog, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseNewPackages
<thesaltydog> herve, ok. Doesn't matter. I am an happy boy (of 49) anyway..
<ogra> herve, dont play the french inquisitor ;)
<herve> you source package url should be listed here
<thesaltydog> herve, the url I gave you include the sources. It is perl
<ogra> thesaltydog, ubuntu accepts only source packages for upload, we cant upload a binary to the buildd's
<thesaltydog> ogra, a binary?? perl code is a script not a binary..
<herve> we mean the source of the package itself
<ogra> so we need the source you built it from.... normally .dsc, diff.gz and orig.tar.gz
<herve> we promote open source or not? :-)
<ogra> heh
<thesaltydog> ah, complications. Ok. Doesn't matter. Thank you all anyway.
<herve> thesaltydog, for building a package
<herve> you should have read some litterature
<ogra> thesaltydog, how did you build that package without a source package ?
<herve> ogra, manual tar+ar ;-)
<ogra> hmm
<herve> you even refer to the debian policy
<herve> so you should know what a source package is
<thesaltydog> herve, listen boys, I have enjoyed in writing the application. IT IS debian-policy compliant. The package runs fine in lintian.
<herve> sorry but I want to see it by myself
<ogra> thesaltydog, but we cand include .deb packages.... we need the source from which the package (not the app) is built
<herve> no one here will blindly upload a package
<thesaltydog> herve, I can provide you a tgz with the source. But if you unpack the deb, the source is inside..
<ogra> thesaltydog, we dont talk about the app here
<herve> debian nor ubuntu work like that
<herve> I don't see how you would have concerns about providing the source package
<ogra> thesaltydog, a package is build by the buildd from the three (or sometines only two) files i mentioned above
<thesaltydog> herve, I am not concerned. The source is inside the package. If you want, I can unpack it and provide you
<ogra> it doesnt matter if your app is a script or not for this
<herve> thesaltydog, remember you ran dpkg-buildpackage or debuild?
<ogra> thesaltydog, forget the word script or app here, its only about the package
<thesaltydog> herve, dpkg-deb
<herve> ogra, manual tar+ar I said...
<thesaltydog> herve, fakeroot dpkg-deb --build debian
<ogra> hmm
<thesaltydog> ogra, what is this...a "court".?
<herve> thesaltydog, I don't get how you would have read the debian policy and all, and haven't made the basic set up of a debian package
<herve> you obviously missed a step
<thesaltydog> herve, so I did it with a step less!
<herve> you did it wrong, that's the point
<ogra> thesaltydog, nope, but we try to explain what we need from you to include the package in ubuntu
<herve> no package in debian nor ubuntu is built this way
<thesaltydog> herve, ok. Doesn't matter. Sorry to disturb.
<herve> check debian's new maintainer guide
<herve> gniiiiiiii
<ogra> ARGH
<ogra> !
<ogra> !!
<ogra> !!!!
<herve> either he lacks of humour,
<herve> or we're in the twilight zone
<ogra> oh, missed one
<ogra> !!!
<Mithrandir> moo.
<Mithrandir> ogra: can you verify that firefox goes BOOM om http://www.clasohlson.no ?
<Mithrandir> (amd64)
<ogra> Mithrandir, ff goes boom on every second click here, thats why i downgraded to mozilla-ff
<herve> okay on i386, in any case
<ogra> Mithrandir, thim knows about it...
<Mithrandir> ogra: ok.
<ogra> thom even
<ogra> but it seems to be an amd64ism
<herve> ogra, if abelli knows him, he'll try to make him understand
<ogra> herve, i hope so
<Mithrandir> ogra: serves us right for having a decent architecture.
<herve> ogra, thim the enchanter? :-)
<ogra> herve, else i'd have to write such an app myself or find someone else :) http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalConfigTools
<herve> I really prefer the UI of yours
<herve> more compliant to the intended audience
<ogra> herve, sure, but its only a mockup
<herve> users in need of it clearly don't know about runlevels
<ogra> yep
<herve> sure, but I only considered the UI :-)
<ogra> thats the idea behind it
<herve> I'll happily review your package ;-)
<herve> by the way, I should introduce myself to cputemp...
<herve> ogra, tell me you use gnu arch!
<ogra> herve, i'm learning bazaar currently, my company wants it ;)
<Mithrandir> ogra: :P
<ogra> :-D
<herve> good one
<herve> it's still arch behind it
<herve> er, ogra
<ajmitch> hi
<herve> I can't find the sources of cputemp
<herve> hi ajmitch!
<ogra> huh ?
<herve> you want a package review too? :-)
<ogra> herve, there is no package yet....
<herve> even a tarball
<ogra> herve, its just a stolen script from Keybuk i changed :-P
<herve> so I already have the latest sources?
<ogra> yep
<herve> mind if I "arch" it?
<ogra> nope, not at all
<herve> but I'd probably won't have the same habits as the ones you would learn
<herve> what the heck...
<herve> hi abelli
<ogra> hey abelli
<herve> ogra, no need to "arch" the source package in fact
<ajmitch> ogra: so, are you uploading the c++ libs I changed? :)
<herve> let's just agree on a version number
<ogra> ajmitch, nope, why should i ?
<ogra> herve, 0.1 is a good start
<ajmitch> ogra: I thought you were uploading everything you came across?
<ogra> ajmitch, or do you prefer that i do it ?
<ajmitch> I can do it easily enough
<ogra> ajmitch, from everybody who cant upload himself...
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> I might as well do mine once they are approved
<ogra> ajmitch, i thought you wanted to reach the 400 ;) so i didnt touch your packages :)
<ajmitch> hehe :)
<ogra> ajmitch, i'll review them tomorrow...
<ajmitch> I'll have to do some catching up
<ajmitch> a couple of the ones I tried last night FTFBS with no patch in debian's BTS
<ogra> ajmitch, are you in the maillist of the bugs in bugzilla ?
<ajmitch> so they'll take a little longer
<abelli> ciao a tutti ..
<abelli> sorry for the delay
<ajmitch> ogra: hmm?
<herve> abelli, np
<ogra> ajmitch, if i mark your packages as "ok" in bugzilla, do you get the mail ?
<ajmitch> no idea :)
<ajmitch> probably
<ogra> ajmitch, so please set you on cc on your bugs... then you'll know when they are ready
<herve> or in your preferences
<herve> check your mail preferences
<ajmitch> I received mail when submitting them
<ajmitch> and when attaching patches
<ogra> ajmitch, ah, great...
<ajmitch> so I'd probably get mail otherwise
<ogra> ajmitch, that was my qustion :)
<ajmitch> there's only 8 libs there currently
<ajmitch> I've still got to clean the others, and get some more working
<ogra> ok
<ajmitch> but I have to run off to work now, will talk to you later..
<herve> ogra, you realize you have no manpage, no documentation, etc.? :-)
<ogra> lol
<ogra> herve,  _you_ wanted to package it
* ogra *dinners*
<herve> hehe
<herve> Lathiat, ping
<herve> ogra, as I fill in the description, I feel like I'm documenting cputmp :-)
<herve> It was downloaded from <fill in ftp site>
<herve> ogra...
<herve> :-)
* herve wakes up
<herve> there's no license even
<ogra> make it GPL
<ogra> it was downloaded from "the internet" *g*
<herve> from DCC ;-)
<herve> no really, just put it on your ftp
<herve> I feel like the most powerful maintainer in the world ;-)
* ajmitch returns
<herve> okay... I feel like I'd have to open my branch in the end
<herve> tomorrow!
<herve> night all
<ogra> ciao
<ajmitch> sigh, libcrypto++ is described as templates upon templates
<ajmitch> I don't think I'll be patching it in a hurry
<abelli> ciao a tutti
<Burgundavia> who was looking for me?
<ogra> Burgundavia, not me, but nice to see you anyway
<ogra> :=)
<Burgundavia> yes, I saw the blue but it goes lost in scrollback
<Burgundavia> found it
<ogra> Burgundavia, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<ogra> ;)
<ajmitch> hi Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> no, I log everything as well
<Burgundavia> hey ogra ajmitch
<tseng|work> snmp sucks the big on
<tseng|work> e
<ogra> tseng|work, nah, its fun.... ;)
<ogra> (if you are crazy enough)
<ogra> Burgundavia, might have been about the games team...
<ogra> Burgundavia, <ogra>	hondje, for the games team, contact Burgundavia r siretart if one of them is around
<tseng|work> ogra: nope
<tseng|work> i need to be able to specify the start row for a bulkget
<tseng|work> but you cant
<ogra> hmm
<tseng|work> you have to do a slow-as-shit walk or even worse getnext a thousand times
<tseng|work> getbulk is only giving me back the first ~100 rows regardless of  how many interfaces there are
<tseng|work> i need to read the RFC
<ogra> yep
<ogra> do you have the MIB ?
<tseng|work> no
<tseng|work> how do you mean?
<tseng|work> its very standard stuff
<tseng|work> ifIn/OutOctets
<tseng|work> time to go home
<tseng|work> bye :)
<Mithrandir> ogra: updating the set of fonts seemed to mostly fix the crashes with ff.
<ogra> ahh
<ogra> great :)
<Mithrandir> at least for me.
<ajmitch> I haven't had firefox crash
<ajmitch> unless it's been an amd64ism
<Mithrandir> I've been through at least ten pages now, including closing an invalid bug in bugzilla.
<ogra> i'll try it.. but not today anymore i need a reliable ff currently...
<\sh> re
<Burgundavia> seen this? http://www.whiprush.org/2005/05/were_our_own_wo.html
<\sh> yes
<Burgundavia> ouch
<Burgundavia> that makes us look really relaly stupid
<Mithrandir> well, Opera is a really, really good browser, IMHO.
<Mithrandir> it's way faster than firefox, leaks less and provides a just as good user experience.
<Burgundavia> yes, I used opera until I jumped to Ubuntu
<Burgundavia> from version 3
<elmo> Burgundavia: err, no it doesn't
<Mithrandir> I worked at Opera from 1998 to 2002-ish
<\sh> i don't like opera at all..konqui or firefox
<Burgundavia> elmo, why not?
<ogra> Burgundavia, the web admin of mozilla was in u-d yesterday.... they seem not to be able to do a real check for the vulnerabilitys...
<elmo> because mozilla's handling of the situation is the real problem
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> so it makes us both look bad
<elmo> it was thom and RH who convinced them to even do what they're asking us to do in that bug
<elmo> Burgundavia: no
<ogra> only them
<Mithrandir> Burgundavia: because there isn't anything wrong with non-free software.  It's just non-free.
<Burgundavia> Mithrandir, Opera is a very nice piece of software. Unfortunately, ff integrated better with gnome, and I get my security updates from syn
<Mithrandir> Burgundavia: I used to have an apt repository on ftp.opera.com.. :P
<\sh> giving dar another try to get ogra pleased ;)
<ogra> \sh, not today anymore...
<Mithrandir> Burgundavia: and I'd probably still provide it, if redistribution was allowed.
<\sh> ogra: I've just had trouble enough for today...so only one shot for me, and then well, I don't know...sleep or something
<ogra> Mithrandir, any chance they will port it to a sane widget set once ?
<ogra> \sh, same here
<Burgundavia> Mithrandir, they actually have a repo as well, but apparently it doesn't have a 8
<Mithrandir> ogra: we had an ncurses port, like six years ago.  Does that count?
<\sh> ogra: you're lucky that you're not at this company anymore
<Mithrandir> or possibly more like five.
<ogra> Mithrandir, curses > QT ;)
<ogra> \sh, i am, thats why i resigned ;)
<Mithrandir> ogra: it was probably the first curses-based browser with CSS and Javascript support. ;-)
<ogra> wow
<Mithrandir> ogra: I doubt we'll see a GTK port, mainly because Troll is one floor downstairs from Opera.
<ogra> heh, i was suspecting that :) norwegian conspiracy
<\sh> lol
<\sh> ogra: i don't really know what you have against QT ;)
<ivoks> oy
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> btw, i learnded to know \sh because he wor a QT t-shirt :)
<\sh> haaahahaha
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> i got it from a qt girl in exchange for a six pack
<\sh> cebit 2001
<Mithrandir> ogra: we have to have some conspiracies we too. :)
<ogra> hmm, a QT girl exchange
<ogra> Mithrandir, so its not a privilege of the brazilians ? :)
<Mithrandir> ogra: there's a swedish one too.
<\sh> well, no doubt she was falling in love just because I was wearing a nice redhat fedora :)
<\sh> and now I screwed up the whole diff of dar
<\sh> so lets try it tomorrow from scratch
<ogra> \sh, you were *wearing* a redhat fedora ?
<ogra> wow
<\sh> ogra: yepp..I have one
<ivoks> omg, fedora :)
<\sh> a red one :)
<ivoks> should we kick and ban him? :)
<\sh> ivoks: well...i was working for them :)
<ogra> ivoks, nah, he has overcome it :)
<ivoks> kline is maybe better? :)
<ivoks> hehe
<\sh> also handsigned "under the brim" book of bob young :)
<\sh> well..
<\sh> I need to find my tux air chair again
<ivoks> so, I sould add my self on CCA?
<ivoks> under MemberCandidates
<\sh> http://www.cd-rom.de/k/431/431649.shtml
<ivoks> new network manager should be build on top of gentoo scripts
<ogra> ivoks, ???
<ivoks> just a suggestion
<ivoks> their scripts detects (un)pluged cable and enviorment
<\sh> gentoo scripts? u mean the how to of the new maintainer guide, or gentoo :;)
<ivoks> where ever you are, you just plug cable in
<ivoks> if there is dhcp, it will take ip from dhcp
<ivoks> if there isn't dhcp, it will self-assign IP in subnet that is in use
<\sh> well...on debian it's called "guessnet"
<ivoks> guessnet sucks compared to gentoo scripts
<ivoks> on gentoo, there is no predefined
<\sh> ivoks: u don't want to deal with gentoo scripts...it's a mess
<ivoks> he doesn't guess
<ivoks> he knows
<ivoks> \sh: i expanded gentoo network script
<ivoks> like it or not, they are best network scipts
<\sh> net.eth0 is a piece of a b*tch
<ivoks> but it works
<ogra> ivoks, whats wrong with ifplugd for that ?
<ivoks> never tried that
<ogra> try it, it does exactly that
<ivoks> another daemon?
<ivoks> omg, linux desktop looks worse than windows
<ajmitch> looks worse?
<ivoks> this should be designed on dbus...
<ajmitch> NM will use dbus for notifying apps that support it
<ivoks> why apps?
<ivoks> why don't run dhclient or something?
<ivoks> s/don\'t/not
<ajmitch> it can do that as well, but we were talking about the desktop
<ajmitch> so I mentioned app notification
<ivoks> ah, ok
<ivoks> i hope, network-admin wouldn't be that app :)
<Unfrgiven> hi all
<ajmitch> ivoks: http://people.redhat.com/dcbw/NetworkManager/
<ajmitch> hi Unfrgiven
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: how are you?
<ajmitch> I'm alright
<ajmitch> at work at the moment
<ivoks> ajmitch: you are porting this to ubuntu?
<ajmitch> it's being done
<Unfrgiven> cool... im going late today so that i can attend the community council meeting
<ajmitch> thom is mainly working on it
<ajmitch> when is the CC meeting?
<Unfrgiven> in 5 min
<ivoks> is there debian/ so i don't have to create my own
<thom> ivoks: leave NM
<ivoks> 5min? where?
<thom> ivoks: it needs love and dependencies
<ajmitch> ivoks: #ubuntu-meeting, as always
<ivoks> thom: i thought just try :)
<Unfrgiven> #ubuntu-meeting
<ajmitch> ah, thom is here :)
* thom is about to pass out
<thom> but yeah, there's a whole bunch of stuff needs packaging before NM can work
<ajmitch> thom: anything I can help with on the side then?
<ajmitch> I know the udu spec talks about patching some apps
<\sh> Meeting today?
<ivoks> tes
<ivoks> yes
<Unfrgiven> \sh: yeah
<ivoks> i didn't know too :)
<\sh> CC? it's not on the calendar
<\sh> adhoc meeting ;)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: it is on the calendar
<\sh> may 24
<\sh> two times
<Unfrgiven> second from the top :)
<\sh> yes...may 24
<\sh> may 24, 22:00 utc cca
<ivoks> 2min
<ajmitch> check your clock..
<Unfrgiven> oh no.... i think im one whole day early!
<ajmitch> it's 23rd in UTC
<Unfrgiven> dammit!!!
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: sorry :)
<thom> ajmitch: at the moment, no. i need to merge stuff across from my laptop and upload it
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: its my stupidity :) and probably the fact that i'm so keen to become a member
<ivoks> :)
<ajmitch> thom: ok, by the time you've done that I should be free from uni & able to help
<\sh> what now? for me it's may 24, 22UTC = may 25, 00:00 GMT+2
<ogra> Unfrgiven, you could wait... its only 24h from now :-P
<ivoks> hahaha
<ivoks> tomorrow?! :)
<Unfrgiven> :)
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: you'll have to be late for work 2 days in a row?
<ivoks> we suck :)
<ivoks> Day changed to 24 May 2005
<\sh> and it was announced on the ML , that the CCA is 2h after TB
<ivoks> when is TB?
<\sh> 20 utc also may 24
<ivoks> that's 22CET
<\sh> it's noted on the Calendar
<\sh> ogra: it's time for a brain reset...
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-31
<ivoks> time for bed...
<ivoks> bye all
<\sh> ivoks: no u go tu #u-m
<\sh> now;)
<ogra> \sh, i'm already doing that...
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> :_
<\sh> go to ;)
<ogra> \sh, with a bottle of merlot
<\sh> ogra: argl..
<ivoks> \sh: ?
<\sh> ivoks: u have to go to ubuntu-meeting ;) as u said ;) not to bed;)
<ivoks> i'm allready there
<ivoks> noone is talking ::)))
<ajmitch> ivoks: we said, it's tomorrow ;)
<Unfrgiven> alright guys in that case i'm going to go to work.... no point staying home if the meeting isn't on! :)
<ivoks> ajmitch: i know
<ivoks> i'm joking with \sh
<ajmitch> bye Unfrgiven
<\sh> cu Unfrgiven
<Unfrgiven> i just had to send my manager an email saying i got the day wrong! :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> poor chap
<Unfrgiven> indeed...
<Unfrgiven> cya all later
<\sh> ubuntu addicted
<ivoks> welll... bye
<Unfrgiven> \sh: they dont call it crack for nothing!
<\sh> Unfrgiven: hmmm
<\sh> ok.gents..for it's also time to say good night..no mail to my manager, but managing to go to bad :)
<\sh> "me" is missing
<\sh> g'night
<Mithrandir> sleep tight
<Burgundavia> is this CXX related? https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11123
<lamont> what is the cdbs target to unpack and patch source?
* lamont misses the days when makefiles were makefiles, and not twisty mazes of include files
<jamessan> then why use cdbs?
<jbailey> lamont: apply-patches
<jbailey> lamont: (assuming that it's simple-patchsys, and not patch and quilt)
<jbailey> lamont: We really need to unify all of those.
<lamont> jbailey: ok. :-)
<tseng> hi
<crimsun> hi
<tritium> hi crimsun
<crimsun> lo tritium
<tritium> How are things?
<crimsun> not bad, yourself?
<tritium> Not bad, thanks.
<crimsun> great
<Amaranth> woo, smeg passes lintian with no errors or warnings
<Amaranth> once pyxdg 0.11 gets into main i'll have to find someone to sponsor it
<ajmitch> it shouldn't be hard to find a willing sponsor
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, smeg is very nice, probably nicer than the default gnome one
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: that's the plan :)
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, what is it written in? can gnome use it by default?
<Amaranth> python
<Burgundavia> what is the status of python in gnome, I am little confused
<Amaranth> i doubt gnome would use it by default, it uses pyxdg instead of the gnome-menus python bindings
<Amaranth> well, the one in GNOME is written in python too...
<Burgundavia> ah
<Amaranth> plus mark likes simple simple editor and i don't think he wants to step on any toes
<Burgundavia> but smeg is actually simpler as a UI than the gnome one
<Amaranth> so gnome-menu-editor and smeg are going for advanced users and gmenu-simple-edit goes for simple uses
<Amaranth> err, 0.6 looks just like the one in gnome :D
<ajmitch> I think python is encouraged & allowed in GNOME now
<Amaranth> python is the only high-level language that is allowed right now, afaik
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> I suspect ruby may be the next one, which would be nice
<Burgundavia> as Java/Mono is tied up to language holywars
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: http://www.realistanew.com/images/smeg/smeg-0.6.png
<Burgundavia> hmm, I saw a one-paned menu editor
<Burgundavia> was that the old smeg?
<Amaranth> You mean http://www.realistanew.com/images/smeg/smeg-0.5.png ?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> why did you dump the one pane?
<Amaranth> people seemed to not like it
<Burgundavia> hmm, I happen to like the concept, much simpler
<Amaranth> yeah, i think it was more "spatial"
<Burgundavia> and cleaner
<Burgundavia> but people are really tied to the 2 pane idea
<Amaranth> yeah, plus it makes my life easier having two seperate TreeViews
<Amaranth> as far as coding, i mean
<Amaranth> DnD would have been a PITA with the one pane
<\sh> morning
<ivoks> morning
<ivoks> ah, time for americas army :)
<ivoks> there's nothing better then blod, guns and killing in 9AM
<\sh> hmmm...i think it's a good time to start the day with a cup of coffee
<Nafallo> hi all!
<\sh> ogra:ping
<ogra> \sh, pong
<\sh> ogra: i hope this try will be the last try for dar
<ogra> oki... i'll look at it soo, just let me finish my 150 mails....
<\sh> ogra: yeah..no hurry.
<\sh> making some party mood inside the NOC with "wir sind papst" *sing*
<\sh> strike...diff looks nice
<\sh> let me grab a cup of coffee and after this i will upload the diff to bugzilla
<\sh> ogra: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=2496
<elmo> GUYS
<ogra> elmo
<\sh> where?
<elmo> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE triple check your dput.cf/dupload.confs and DON'T UPLOAD ubuntu packages to Debian
<elmo> \sh: that means _you_ dude :P
<\sh> elmo: hmm it's an error of dput
<ogra> \sh, lots of ubuntu devs are developing for debian
<elmo> ogra: nevertheless, we should fix our dput and dupload to default to ubuntu
<elmo> having misplaced uploads for debian by ubuntu folks end up in our queue is a lot less painful than the reverse
* ogra goes fixing
<ogra> elmo, i'll fix it during the day....
<elmo> thanks
<\sh> i tried to dput local and didn't have mini-dinstall installed
<\sh> and I saw "upload packages"
<\sh> but normally dput should ignore those uploads..cause .dputrc was in my home..strange
<\sh> sorry
<ogra> \sh, on the Uploads wikipage re the tweaks you have to make :)
<\sh> ogra: that wasn't the issue
<\sh> [local] 
<\sh> fqdn = localhost
<\sh> method = local
<\sh> incoming = /home/shermann/archive/mini-dinstall/incoming
<\sh> allow_unsigned_uploads = 1
<ogra> btw, the patch looks good now
<\sh> post_upload_command = mini-dinstall --batch
<\sh> this is my .dput.cf
<\sh> but "mini-dinstall" wasn't installed in my chroot of breezy
<\sh> so i did a dput local <mypackage> and normally it should complain only that mini-dinstall is not installed and do nothing
<\sh> but I think he took the global config for it
<\sh> I'm really sorry about it...please tell all the debian devs my appologies
<\sh> next time the beer goes on my account
<\sh> ogra: the rules file was quite funny
<ogra> \sh, you dont need to apologize to the debian devs, only to te ftp master who has to handle it ;)
<\sh> ogra: it doesn't matter to whom I have to tell my appologies..it's annonying
<\sh> ogra: and it's quite bad that I was the one :(
<ogra> nah
<\sh> I'm taking it personally ;)
<ogra> youre not the only one
<\sh> ogra: Now I know what happened..so i can avoid it in the future
<ogra> good
<\sh> but it's really strange that it takes the default upload config even if there is a local dput.cf
<Burgundavia> siretart, ping
<siretart> Burgundavia: pong
<siretart> but I'm having lecture, and gotta leave in 10min
<Burgundavia> siretart, regarding londonlaw
<Burgundavia> siretart, shall I email you?
<siretart> Burgundavia: if you don't mind, that'll be great!
<Burgundavia> siretart, np
<siretart> Burgundavia: I've read your suggestions on londonlaw-users ;)
<siretart> \sh: will you attend the TB meeting this evening?
<\sh> siretart: yes
<Burgundavia> siretart, you also subscribed? saw my flood?
<Burgundavia> siretart, sent
<siretart> \sh: I want to attend to, but I'm won't make in on time. I will come at about 2030-2045. would you excuse me please?
<siretart> Burgundavia: yes. much work for paul :)
<\sh> siretart: sure np...
<Burgundavia> once I get inkscape working, some work for me too
<siretart> Burgundavia: I read your email, will comment on both suggestions. (already have thoughts about them)
<Burgundavia> cool
<Burgundavia> I like causing people work
<siretart> \sh: thanks
<Burgundavia> siretart, discovered the crownandcutlass FTBFS, he is using hardcoded nvidia only links
<siretart> Burgundavia: :(
<Burgundavia> there is some discussion about it on their forums, and possible fix, but I didn't play with it
<Burgundavia> as SDL is currently done on my machine
<\sh> ogra: how is the status of gnome-powermanager thingy
<\sh> ogra: I'm a lucky guy
<ogra> good for you then ;-P
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> but why ?
<\sh> ogra: i will get some furniture on friday for free ;)
<ogra> heh...
<\sh> desk, settees, table, chairs etc. :)
<\sh> those guys from wds-tech they're renewing their office and everything in there right now, they deliver it to me ;)
<ogra> great :)
<ajmitch> hi ogra, \sh
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<ogra> is anybody here using dput ?
<\sh> yep
<thom> yes
<ogra> is there a default host setting like in dupload anywhere ?
<thom> yeah, in the config file
<\sh>  /etc/dput.cf
<ogra> i got it open here do i add ubuntu to default_host_main  then ?
<thom> yes
<ogra> ah, thanks...
<ogra> thom, so why dont you like <blink> tags ?
<\sh> what is dput using if u don't give a destination for uploading? in my /etc/dput.cf  there is no default_host_main set...does it use then the first host entry? (ftp-master?)
<\sh> ogra: thats netscapish
<ogra> so ?
<thom> ogra: *evil*
<\sh> ogra: they were hated sind they were invented :)
<\sh> s/sind/since/
<thom> and yes, it'll use the first host entry by default
<\sh> just like <marquee> from ms
<\sh> thom: thats the reason why I uploaded accidently to debian :(
<ogra> but its nice to have it to see the errors during scrolling
<thom> just make em read; i find blink *really* hard to read
<ogra> an i doubt anybody will look at our build logs with IE
<thom> uh, "red"
<ogra> they are red already... but i'll add a option to disable it
<ogra> as i'll add a option to disable css, since fabbione doest like it :)
<\sh> argl
<ogra> thesaltydog, nice that you come back
<\sh> I just saw dar not compiling on amd64.. i need access to amd64 platform ;)
<thesaltydog> ogra, I was just looking for you
<ogra> thesaltydog, sorry that i didnt intervene enough yesterday inthe talk with herve... please dont be upset
<thesaltydog> ogra, I am not upset. I simply don't want my application anymore in ubuntu.. :-)
<ajmitch> that is unfortunate, why is that?
<ajmitch> hi ivoks
<ivoks> hi ajmitch
<ivoks> 25 kills, 3 KIA
<ivoks> nice :)
<\sh> thesaltydog: which application?
<doko_> ogra: dar FTBFS
<\sh> strike
<\sh> http://www.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/default5.asp?VName=TROJ%5FPGPCODER%2EA&VSect=P
<\sh> thats incredible
<ajmitch> \sh: looks rather nasty :)
<\sh> yeah
<ogra> \sh, seen doko ?
<\sh> but this is really, well, dangerous
<\sh> ogra: toolchain or devel
<ogra> \sh, <doko_> ogra: dar FTBFS
<\sh> ogra: on ia64, amd64 and ppc
<ogra> \sh, could you look at it ?
<\sh> sure...
<\sh> <tr><td style="padding-right: 5px;" align="right"><span style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(160, 160, 160);">943</span></td><td colspan="3" style="background: rgb(255, 255, 255) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;"><span style="font-size: 12px;">/build/buildd/dar-2.2.1/src/libdar/.libs/libdar.a(tools.o)(.text+0xf332):
<\sh> In function `libdar::tools_name_of_gid(unsigned short)':</span></td></tr>
<\sh> <tr><td style="padding-right: 5px;" align="right"><span style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(160, 160, 160);">944</span></td><td colspan="3" style="background: rgb(245, 245, 245) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;"><span style="font-size: 12px;"><font color="darkorange">/build/buildd/dar-2.2.1/src/libdar/tools.cpp:412:
<\sh> warning: Using 'getgrgid' in statically linked applications requires at
<\sh> runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking</font></span></td></tr>
<\sh> <tr><td style="padding-right: 5px;" align="right"><span style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(160, 160, 160);">945</span></td><td colspan="3" style="background: rgb(255, 255, 255) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;"><span style="font-size: 12px;">/build/buildd/dar-2.2.1/src/libdar/.libs/libdar.a(tools.o)(.text+0xf882):
<\sh> In function `libdar::tools_name_of_uid(unsigned short)':</span></td></tr>
<\sh> <tr><td style="padding-right: 5px;" align="right"><span style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(160, 160, 160);">946</span></td><td colspan="3" style="background: rgb(245, 245, 245) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;"><span style="font-size: 12px;"><font color="darkorange">/build/buildd/dar-2.2.1/src/libdar/tools.cpp:398:
<\sh> warning: Using 'getpwuid' in statically linked applications requires at
<ogra> \sh, hey
<\sh> runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking</font></span></td></tr>
<Amaranth> he can't stop
<\sh> argl
<ogra> obviously
<\sh> sorry
<\sh> *grmpf* sometimes i have kde
<\sh> i hate
<ajmitch> bad \sh
<ogra> the above is sad, the latter i can understand ;)
<ajmitch> simple fix, use gnome
<ogra> yeah
<\sh> well...i need access to a chroot on amd64 and ppc ;)
<ajmitch> if I was rich, I'd let you ;)
<ajmitch> since I'm not, I don't have amd64 or ppc
<\sh> ogra: u have amd64...
<ogra> \sh, i have a amd64 that shuts down after about 1min compiling
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> need a bgruuntier fan
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> does sf.net has amd64 at their compile farm?
<ogra> i have hairdryer for that, but i've given up to compile on this thing if its avoidable
<\sh> a
<\sh> ha
<\sh> reading readme helps a lot...
<Lathiat> documentation is for whimps
<Lathiat> real men just kick it till it works
<Lathiat> this is why men dont really achieve much in general
<\sh> ogra: amd64 and static linking? issues? i don't have any exp with amd64 ;)
<ogra> \sh, i'll look at it if i find time...
<Mithrandir> \sh: I just fixed your account on ravel
<\sh> Mithrandir: what account? ,-)
<Mithrandir> \sh: amd64 account, like the one you asked for the other day.
<\sh> ah :) didn't read my emails
<\sh> Mithrandir: thx a lot :)
<Mithrandir> you know it's bad when the fstab of a host is 73 lines
<Lathiat> heh
<Nafallo> lol
<Lathiat> how the hell did that haepmn
<Mithrandir> chroots and bind mounts
<\sh> ogra: ok...u fooled me
<ogra> me ?
<ogra> never ;)
<thom> 11:25 ~% wc -l /etc/fstab
<thom> 55 /etc/fstab
<thom> and that's my desktop
<ogra> ugh
<\sh> thats the reason why they renewed the autotools stuff
<\sh> i just had a look into gentoo dar ebuild
<\sh> autoreconf
<\sh> libtoolize
<\sh> libtoolize --copy --force || die
<\sh>         # fix build on amd64
<\sh> :)
<ogra> but it should happen on build time.... not by including the config.{sub,guess} in the diff
<\sh> ogra: i tried everything to avoid this, but if you copy config.{sub,guess} via runtime, after debdiff there is a change
<\sh> cause those files are already there.
<\sh> or I remove it from the diff at all
<\sh> by hand
<\sh> what do u think?
<ogra> \sh, if they are in the diff, it indicates that you changed it...so make sure you dont change it ;) i.e. if it happens during the clean target, look if you cant move it to the configure target...
<ogra> there are too any packages abusing the clean target imho.... poker3d is the worst i've seen so far
<ogra> s/any/many/
<\sh> ogra: I tried...config.{guess,sub} are in the orig.tar.gz, it doesn't change anything if I copy them via configure target or via clean
<ogra> \sh, it should.... because you dont run configure if you make the source package
<ogra> ... but clean is run....
<\sh> lets try
<\sh> some advise concerning running autreconf and libtoolize in the configure target?
<ogra> not from my side if it doesnt break it :)
<ogra> just make sure that "clean:" really only cleans :)
<\sh> yeah...:)
<\sh> lets check this version first...
<\sh> Mithrandir: breezy == amd64 or jbailey-breezy-amd64 ? :)
<jbailey> \sh: Please don't play with my chroot. =)
<\sh> jbailey: ok :) this is enough info ;)
<jbailey> \sh: My chroots tend to have things like really experimental glibc's loaded into them. =)
<Mithrandir> \sh: hmm, I think I debootstrapped the wrong arch :/
<Mithrandir> give me a few minutes to fix
<\sh> Mithrandir: no problem :)
<\sh> Mithrandir: and if you have time, i need at least these packages as build-deps (if they aren't already on it): zlib1g-dev, libattr1-dev, libbz2-dev, e2fslibs-dev, libssl-dev, autotools-dev
<Mithrandir> don't separate them with , :P
<Mithrandir> anyhow, installed
<Mithrandir> anything else?
<ogra> Mithrandir, heh, you lazy copy paster....
<Mithrandir> ogra: dude, I'm a sysadmin.  Of course I'm lazy.
<\sh> Mithrandir: thx :) not right now ;)
<ogra> hmm, i thought that was a privilege of programmers :)
<Mithrandir> ogra: sysadmins are even more lazy than programmers. :)
<ogra> hehe
<Mithrandir> but, I should be writing my thesis, not mucking around on IRC.
<Mithrandir> see you around later.
<\sh> Mithrandir: ah
<\sh> dchroot -c breezy -d
<\sh> dchroot: getpwnam failed for shermann in breezy chroot, aborting.
<Mithrandir> fixed
<\sh> thx :)
<Mithrandir> (you want a user in the chroot too?  slacker! ;-)
<ogra> \sh, ping
<ogra> siretart, ping
<siretart> ogra: lucky, I just wanted to log out ;)
<ogra> siretart, you want to get approved today for MOTUness ?
<siretart> ogra: I think I could help, so, yes
<siretart> why do you ask?
<ogra> siretart, then please put yourself on the agenda.... http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<ogra> \sh, the same goes for you ^^^^^^^^^
<siretart> ogra: ah, I thought being on MaintainerCandidates would suffice
<siretart> will do, thanks for pointing out!
<ogra> nope, you should be on the agenda too...
<siretart> on my way home, will do from there.
<siretart> cu later
<\sh> ogra: pong
<\sh> ogra: I'm on the MaintainerList
<\sh> isn't it enough?
<ogra> \sh, please put yourself on the agenda too
<\sh> k...at the bottom?
<\sh> or under astharot?
<ogra> wherever you like
<Amaranth> as soon as pyxdg 0.11 gets into main can someone sponsor my smeg package?
<Amaranth> it passed lintian with no warnings or errors
<Amaranth> http://dev.realistanew.com/smeg/0.6.2/ wasn't sure what was needed so i uploaded everything
<ogra> .dsc diff.gz and orig.tar.gz :)
<Amaranth> all there
<Amaranth> this version supports KDE, it rocks :)
<Lathiat> whatd you do to do that
<Amaranth> do you really want to know? it's ugly
<Lathiat> yes
<\sh> Amaranth: the gnome people will kiss your feet for this tool ;)
<Lathiat> im still wondering why gnome has its own
<Lathiat> and then theres smeg
<Amaranth> Lathiat: http://rafb.net/paste/results/5e1qhs46.html
<\sh> they will hail you, they will call u "god" ;)
<Amaranth> gnome didn't have its own when i started
<Lathiat> thats my point.
<Amaranth> mark wants a simple editor for the builtin gnome one
<Amaranth> appearently the plan is to have it come up on right click on the menu and basically only do what it does now
<ogra> does he ?
<Amaranth> that's how he made it sound
<\sh> hmm..gnome 2.10 doesn't have one ;) at least it's not working for the freedesktop specs
<Amaranth> me and manny get to fight for the advanced editor spot
<ogra> \sh, nope, but 2.12
<Lathiat> manny?
<Amaranth> \sh: nope, that's why i wrote this
<Amaranth> christian me<can't spell it, french>
<Amaranth> err, Nesomething
<Lathiat> he wrote one too?
<\sh> ogra: 2.12 is ready for include?
<Amaranth> gnome-menu-editor in gnome's CVS
<ogra> \sh, 2.12 will b in breezy....
<Lathiat> b b in b reezy
<ogra> \sh, i guess right after the CXX and X transitions are done
<Amaranth> \sh: smeg works on hoary too, with a couple of extra packages :)
<\sh> ogra: u see..I'm not up2date with gnome :(
<Amaranth> Lathiat: Did you look at my KDE theme code?
<Amaranth> Lathiat: Makes me want to puke.
<Lathiat> Amaranth: :)
<Lathiat> Amaranth: i've written worse
<Amaranth> so have i, look at the rest of smeg ;)
<Lathiat> i had this irc server
<Lathiat> that linked into a network
<Lathiat> (the one i was running)
<Lathiat> to detect and nuke floodnets, etc
<Lathiat> and uh, yeh that was rather horrid python
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> my hack for loading debian menu icons is really bad copy and paste crap
<Amaranth> trying to load debian menu icons with my new setup for loading icons was taking 10 seconds
<Amaranth> since the icons don't exist it was searching once in the kde theme, once in the gnome theme, and twice in hicolor
<Amaranth> for each icon
<Lathiat> heh
<\sh> ogra: now it goes...my try to compile dar on amdt64 ;)
<ogra> hope you have the hour it takes to compile it ;)
<\sh> ogra: just finished ;)
<ogra> ah, yes, my build machine is a pIII 900....might be somewhat different
<\sh> ogra: hehe...but my laptop is glowing just because it's burning :)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> strike
<\sh> done...dar is compiling on amd64
<\sh> so I can go home...and upload later the patch :)
<\sh> guys...laters :) bus is waiting :)
<ogra> not the patch, the packet ;)
<thom> ogra: any ideas on monodevelop for amd64? ;-)
<ogra> thom, its working great... :)
<ogra> tseng nd i talked about which mono apps should go to main....
<thom> ogra: ... in breezy? ;-)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> beagle should be one...and eithe f-spot or monodevelop the second
<Treenaks> f-spot is nice.. if you don't have an existing photo library
<thom> i'd say all three and tomboy too
<Treenaks> categorising an existing library is hell
<ogra> (havent tried the 0.7 build yet)
<ogra> thom, this many ?
<thom> ogra: sure, why not?
<Treenaks> ogra: if you can get them, why not
<ogra> we have to care for all of them in main then...
<ogra> i'd rather go with a small amount at the start and raise the number later...
<thom> i don't see the point of having a totally artificial split and those four are imho the core mono apps
<Amaranth> i agree
<ogra> but what about blam for example ?
<ogra> or muine
<ogra> i guess they should stay in universe
<Amaranth> heh, i use both of those
<Amaranth> but having them in universe isn't a problem, most people don't use them
<ogra> but we have a music player in the default install...lets avoid redundancys
<Burgundavia> blam is a mess
<Burgundavia> and muine is dup
<Amaranth> yeah, i agreed with leaving them in universe :)
<Burgundavia> and violates the Ubuntu one good app
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: what's wrong with blam?
<ogra> its crashy
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, a mess internally, c and C#
<ogra> like f-spot on amd64 still is :( sadly....
<Amaranth> 1.8.0 is, hallski says a lot of that is fixed in CVS
<ogra> Burgundavia, worse c++ and c#
<Burgundavia> ogra, are you serious? I thought it was C
<ogra> thats why we cant update it atm
<Amaranth> he only uses C++ for mozilla, dunno why he doesn't use gtkmozembed
<ogra> i have no idea either
<Amaranth> something about fonts
<Amaranth> and not getting enough control from C#
<ivoks> hm... couple of ogras here :)
<ogra> ivoks, only two
<ivoks> two make couple :)
<ogra> sure... and we love each other, arent we ?
<ogra_> indeed :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> hm... this sounds like case for certain doctors :)
<ivoks> multiple persons in one man :)
<ogra> as long as we coexist in a friendy manner we dont need a doctor....
<ogra_> thats what _you_ think hehe
<ogra> quiet now !
<ogra_> ok
<ivoks> i see you don't have anything better to do :)
<ogra> i have... but eve we need breaks sometimes :)
<Treenaks> ogra: wow, you cloned yourself ;)
<Treenaks> ogra: now you can upload twice as fast!
<ogra> Treenaks, yeah... to get more work done :)
<Treenaks> (or at least, twice as much packages)
* ogra imagines doko being a little army at home....
<ogra> but he is to shy, he doesnt show the others to us ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i think doko lives in china
<ivoks> and has all the free labour
<ivoks> :)
<Burgundavia> what the heck pacakge is glx.h in?
<ivoks> libgl-dev
<ogra> Burgundavia, apt-file search glx.h ?
<Burgundavia> ogra, love to, but it doesn't like breezy right now
<ogra> whoops, oh, yes, its on my todo list... sorry
<Burgundavia> np
* ogra goes rebuilding apt-file
<Burgundavia> I run breezy, I can accept the annoyances
<Amaranth> pyxdg 0.11 has hit main, who wants to do smeg? :)
<Amaranth> i have a diff.gz, dsc, and orig.tar.gz at http://dev.realistanew.com/smeg/0.6.2/
<GheRivero> res people
<herve> hi!
<Nafallo> hi herve! how's life? :-)
<herve> fine
<herve> and how is going in Nafallo's land? :-)
<Nafallo> herve: except irritating parents that think I should seek work on places out of reach? ;-)
<herve> a polite way to ask you to leave the familial nest? :-)
<Nafallo> herve: naah, already out of there :-). more like stupidity and lack of reading and understanding on their side ;-).
<herve> they won't get what your job consists of?
<herve> I know that :-)
<Nafallo> herve: well, they just want me to survive. they forgot that I have to be at the work or something ;-).
<Nafallo> herve: or more likely, they trust my grandfathers words more than me reading the requirments on the companys homepage ;-)
<herve> trusting a webpage more than you? ouch! :-)
<Nafallo> herve: nope. I trust a webpage more than my grandfather ;-).
<Nafallo> herve: I should just ignore that job. I can't even find the address on the map for heavens sake ;-).
<herve> speaking of trust... heh
<Nafallo> herve: well. you /have/ heard about the web of trust, right? ;-)
<Nafallo> herve: maybe this wasn't what it meant though :-P
<herve> dholbach showed me a website where you can see the distance between two keys
<herve> fun to see there are only 4 people between us, while we never meet
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> there should be a package for that somewhere :-)
<ivoks> herve: my idol :)
<herve> ivols: my... er, fellow brother of maintaining!
<Nafallo> herve: keyanalyze. that's the package ;-).
<herve> Nafallo, it draws a graph of "dependencies"?
<Nafallo> tseng: hiya :-)
<herve> well, a graph shortlu
<Nafallo> herve: It produces output suitable for placing on a web site showing which keys have signed which other keys.
<herve> ivoks and shortly, even
<Nafallo> herve: something like that ;-)
<herve> soon to be seen, the worldmap of gpg keys!
<Nafallo> hehe
<ivoks> :)
<Nafallo> herve: I should have looked at the recommends instead of the text ;-)
<Nafallo> herve: that one should produce graphs indeed ;-).
<herve> if you know the coordinates
<herve> you could place it on a worldmap
<Nafallo> we have to extend the gpg keydata ;-)
* herve looking at where to submit a RFC :-)
<Nafallo> hehehe
<siretart> ok. i'm off. will be back at 2045. cu at the meeting! :)
<tseng|work> meeting?
<siretart> TB meeting
<tseng|work> oh wow
<tseng|work> i thought it was another week
<Nafallo> siretart: 40 _YEARS_!? are you kidding me?
<siretart> Nafallo: lol. :)
<siretart> tseng|work: it's a special review candidates meeting. (and I cannot attend on time :( )
<herve> I'm confident
<herve> and you're a DD, no?
<siretart> herve: I maintain 2 packages in debian. but im no DD
<herve> okay, but still
<herve> you have a background talking for you
<siretart> I hope I make it quicker, but I cannot promise. . woah its late. gotta go. CU
<herve> ++
<Nafallo> siretart: see you
<\sh> re
<tseng|work> so the meeting is in 2 hours?
<\sh> yepp
<tseng|work> hey who was talking about wxWidgets the other day?
<tseng|work> 2.6
<zul> crimsun wasnt it?
<tseng|work> beats me
<tseng|work> it looks like the linux waste client needs it
<\sh> ogra: last patch + upload cycle for "dar" for you?
<\sh> updated patch is in bugzilla
<dholbach> hellas!
<\sh> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey \sh
<ogra> \sh, we should probably wait.... might be that you can upload it yourself tomorrow ;)
<\sh> ogra: lazy dog ;)
<herve> hi thom
<ogra> heh
<herve> ogra, did you set an arch repository up for cputmp, yet? ;-)
<ogra> nope, not yet.... i was nearly the whole day busy sorting the drama of yesterday
<ogra> and my inbox bursts from italian mails....
<herve> what drama?
<herve> *that* was a drama?
<herve> well yes, getting mailbombed is a drama
<\sh> italian mails?
<ogra> herve, yes, it was, and we both behaved wrong....
<herve> not to the point of being attacked
<herve> because we asked for a source package?
<ogra> herve, i dont get mailbombed, i'm just discussing with thesaltydog and abelli....
<ogra> herve, nope because we didnt behave like we should
<herve> ha ok, I spoke with abelli in PV yesterday afterwards
<dholbach> the atmosphere was not really inviting
<herve> there were problems on both sides
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> yes, it all went unfortunately wrong
<dholbach> but we should agree on being as patient as possible
<dholbach> and when it's hard, just turn away from the conversation for some minutes :-)
<herve> yeah, you could have a pizza burning!
* Nafallo grumbles
<herve> Nafallo, your parents again?
<Nafallo> herve: xorg :-P
<herve> you mean, you're addicted of daily upgrading as I am? :-)
<Nafallo> naah, hourly or less ;-)
<\sh> ahhh...arkrpg starting to build for the first time
<herve> is there a doctor in the audience? :-)
<herve> \sh, the miracle of nature :-)
<\sh> herve: the miracle of xorg
<herve> hmm... looks like listening to nausicaa's ost is having side effects on me
<thom> 19 works alright for me
<Nafallo> -17 -18 -19 -20 is borked here ;-)
<\sh> we will see
<thom> (admittedly i had to fix up some stuff to make it work right, but it does now)
<dholbach> thom: but the ctrl-<key>--stuff is still borked for you, isnt it?
<thom> dholbach: it's got better since -17, but yes still borken
<Nafallo> hmm, my modeline is gone :-P
<dholbach> i sent a mail to unfrgiven !5! times, because i wanted to ctrl-c ctrl-v something (and evolution took it for "ok to send this")
<Nafallo> hehe
<dholbach> ok... i didnt have my first coffee then
<herve> Nafallo, modelines? I thought it disappeared with xfree3 !
<\sh> argl...xorg is forget it ;)
<\sh> the deps are again b0rked
<Nafallo> herve: not for my widescreen atleast. everything looks real bad now :-P
<herve> someone knows which xorg fedora core will include?
<thom> dholbach: hahah, that's pretty cool
<herve> or will ubuntu have the most rocking one? :-)
<thom> herve: fc4 will have 6.8.2 aiui
<dholbach> herve: we will have the most rocking one of course
<dholbach> :)
<herve> hmm... making me think of something
<herve> but this will more probably take place on #u-d
<herve> that some folks from fedora team attend #u-b
<herve> and the other way round
<herve> so we share work, ideas, and code of course
<thom> #u-b ?
<herve> -devel I mean
<thom> *phew*
<herve> what is -b?
<Nafallo> brb
<thom> idunno, you wrote it!
<dholbach> thom was already afraid he missed something :-)
<herve> ha ok, I wondered what he was relieved about :-)
<thom> dholbach: i was terrified of more irc channels ;-)
<ogra> thom you dont know #ubuntu-belgianbeer ?
<dholbach> haha
* thom thwaps ogra
<herve> ogra, if only...
<thom> ;-)
<dholbach> #ubuntu-beginners... that one was discussed
<ogra> argh
<ogra> horrible
<thom> ogra: anyway, #u-britishbeer would be far better
<herve> hmm... leffe
<Nafallo> yay! thinks are back :-)
<herve> dholbach, "en terrasse" of course!
<dholbach> ogra: you're really close to belgium, aren't you
<dholbach> herve: :)
<ogra> thom, i'd vote for #ubuntu-VB
<dholbach> haha... yes! :-)
<ogra> dholbach, yep
<thom> ogra: man, you germans have no taste in beer :P
<ogra> lol
<dholbach> haahahahahaha
* dholbach goes back to #ubuntu-conspiracy... :-)
* Nafallo joins dholbach there ;-)
<dholbach> argl... gtkmm is utterly broken
<dholbach> the old old old one
<\sh> thom: WHAT?!!?!?!?!
<\sh> thom: I drink Guinness
<Nafallo> hmm, the channel was really there :-P
<ogra> Nafallo, sure.... thats where the secret meetings go on ;)
<dholbach> shhh ogra
<ogra> heh
<tseng|work> oh man i missed the secret
<Nafallo> hehe
<\sh>  /mode \sh +i
<dholbach> ogra ogra ogra...
<dholbach> :-)
<tseng|work> dholbach: say oliver grawert 3 times fast
<lamont> mjpegtools (multiverse) is FTBFS: non-PIC in shared lib (amd64 should fail)
<lamont> and ia64, and hppa.
<tseng|work> non pic cflags, or non pic assembler?
<\sh> thomas anders thomas anders thomas anders ,-)
* dholbach grabs \sh by the throat
<\sh> hahaha
<\sh> when I first saw oliver in our ISH catine, I was wonderin where dieter bohlen is sitting or if he was waiting for nora ;)
* \sh runs
* ogra looks for something *very heavy* to throw at \sh
<tseng|work> german humor...
<thom> did they put something in the water in germany today?
<ogra> \sh, so you want to become a MOTU today ?
<ogra> \sh, who should vouch for you ?
<ogra> *g*
<herve> me!
<herve> :-p
<\sh> ogra: well, then u have to upload my patches tomorrow ;)
<tseng|work> thom: the wind is coming to strongly from france
<ogra> tseng|work, hahahahaha
<Nafallo> lol
<herve> french, not to be trusted!
<thom> tseng|work: *g*
<herve> sorry guys, I don't support your war!
<\sh> what war?
<\sh> oh yes
<herve> don't pay attention, french humour!
<\sh> i forgot :)
<\sh> btw...is there a "ubuntu webapplications" project?
<thom> ARGH YOU SAID THE W WORD
<jbailey> Thom "Stay away from the W, mofo" May...
* \sh hides...looks all over the show, "I? THE W WORD?"
* \sh is scared to death now
<tseng|work> \sh: dude you should totally start one
<tseng|work> and make installing webapps from .deb not totally f'n random
<tseng|work> fix moinmoin first
<tseng|work> the install is complete shithouse
<Burgundavia> \sh, add koha to your list of apps to package
<thom> \sh: you're only allowed to create webapps in ubuntu in lisp. that's the ubuntu webapplications project. rewrite the web in lisp
* dholbach hands \sh the debconf handbook
<\sh> *dead*
<Nafallo> lol
<ivoks> so... now we open champaigne?
<ivoks> meeting today? at midnight :)
<ogra> thom, what about all the assembler cgi's ?
<tseng|work> its in 1 hour
<\sh> and I thought I could beat the gentoo guys, with their shitty webapps philosophy
<Nafallo> ivoks: then that's tomorrow ;-)
<dholbach> tseng: that's the TB meeting
<tseng|work> \sh: uh dude, what gentoo has is a ton better than us atm IMO
<thom> ogra: only if it's s390 assembler
<tseng|work> \sh: its consistant, if nothing else
<\sh> tseng: not the webapps...its a pain in da ass
<ogra> thom, i nearly lbought one last week
<dholbach> thom: why do you want to cause so much pain...
<tseng|work> thom: but what about all those people using m68k
<thom> dholbach: webapps are always pain. i just wish to ensure that everyone is on an equal footing
<Burgundavia> thom, there are probably laws against that sort of thing
<ogra> thom, for only 250 , including the maintenance laptop
<dholbach> thom: ok... agreed :-)
<ogra> thom, but additionally 300 for shipping .... :(
<\sh> ogra: s390?
<thom> (can you tell i used to be a sysadmin at a web host?)
<ogra> yep
<\sh> ogra: move towards the airport
<thom> ogra: and 1 million dollars for the electricity and cooling and the extension for your house?
<dholbach> ogra: get an anhaenger, drive to bielefeld and you're set :-)
<herve> webapps? do you need an expert? :-)
<\sh> ogra: redhats s390 was in the basement of the redhat office building...and when the metro train wasn't there u could here the s390 ;)
<tseng|work> i need someone to make the moinmoin debs not suck
<tseng|work> you have to read a few screens full of instructions to use the software post install
<\sh> debconf is not difficult
<ogra> thom, i probably would have only used the beautiful rack.... my GF wants my 2meter 19" glass cabinet for her tomatos
<ivoks> buuuu... i'm all alone un #ubuntu.hr
<dholbach> \sh: i saw the extra powersupplies for the otto/karstadt/quelle/... s390s :-)
<ogra> ivoks, use a dash, not a dot ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> same thing - noone :)
<\sh> dholbach: extraordinary :)
<ivoks> no, wait, one freek camed :)
<herve> now I'm alone on #u-hr :(
<dholbach> \sh: they had a ship and a tank engine with some 20000 litres of fuel, and a room full of batteries, that was funny - everything was a buzz
<ivoks> #u.hr
<ogra> dholbach, visit \sh at ish GmbH and look at their powersupplys.... or better watch a movie on the 20m screen in the NOC ;)
<\sh> dholbach: when I was starting with my it carreer...there was one fresh fruit and vegetables whole saler...he went bankrupt because of the ibms mainframe machines...
<dholbach> :-/
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> i have some pics of the NOC :)
<\sh> moment
<dholbach> ok... who fixes old gtkmm?
<ogra> mrogue ?
<herve> it took me a week to transition a single package...
<dholbach> ogra: unfortunately not
<dholbach> ogra: there are some packages still depending on it
<ogra> then morgue them too.... who needs them...
<ogra> its just software :)
<ogra> <--- kidding
<herve> yeah, we have plenty of them!
<\sh> http://shermann.blogweb.de/uploads/pictures/DSCN0014.jpg
<herve> hey! what happened to my <joke> tags!
<dholbach> it's all about 0s and 1s... it's silly making such a fuss
<\sh> http://shermann.blogweb.de/uploads/pictures/DSCN0037.jpg
<herve> \sh, take care with politics here
<\sh> herve: politics?
<herve> strange...
<herve> I see twice your blog
<herve> not your photographs
<\sh> oh
<\sh> security feature
<\sh> strange
<\sh> new in s9y 8.1
<\sh> 0.8.1
<\sh> sorry
<dholbach> herve: me too
<\sh> this is a feature
<\sh> a new feature
<\sh> hmm...
<\sh> moment
<dholbach> of course, bugs are never bugs... they're features :-)
<herve> there's the salt of using software!
<herve> the pepper, would say some morons ;-)
<\sh> dholbach: i have to report it :)
<dholbach> ha... murrayc will love this, i'll tell him to fix a bug in some code of 2002-04-14 :-)
<\sh> coffee time
<\sh> ok
<\sh> http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/
* Burgundavia is frustrated at 3 different apps using three differnt url handling schemes
<herve> \sh, so what did you want us to see?
<\sh> herve: \sh pictures...
<herve> all? :-)
<\sh> dholbach should see the NOC :)
<\sh> herve: oh well..I don't want you to see my nude pictures ;)
<herve> and the screen wall?
<herve> alas!
<\sh> http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/v/shermannpics/?g2_navId=x1a83f40f
<ivoks> see you in 2.5 hours
<ivoks> or is meeting sooner? :)
<\sh> ivoks: why don't u attend also for the TB?
<ivoks> when is that one?
<ogra> 30min
<\sh> 8pm UTC
<ivoks> 30min...
<ivoks> huh...
<ivoks> no time for sleep :)
<ivoks> i'll come ;0
<ivoks> bye
<\sh> herve: looks nice the wall...
<\sh> sunday we had F1 running on the middle of the screen
* herve wonders how star wars would look on it!
<\sh> ogra: btw...the first row is now completly full...the voice & hsi techs (henning and thomas) and farid and frank z. are sitting now in front of me
<herve> \sh, you're at work?
<ogra> oh, they moved down ?
<\sh> ogra: george and ian are sitting now next to frank f. and rochus and craig sitting where henning and thomas were
<\sh> herve: no
<herve> ha, you're just explaining :-)
<\sh> ogra: no voice & hsi techs ops
<\sh> herve: and if you check the pics of http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/v/shermann/LUUSA/20050224/?g2_navId=x1a83f40f
<\sh> there r also some interessting people on :)
<\sh> one php5 book author
<\sh> a phpmyadmin/s9y dev
<\sh> some freebsd hackers
<herve> that's why they look like zombies?
<herve> ha no wait
<herve> that's the red eyes :)-
<\sh> haha :)
<\sh> lucky for me, that i secured my dubai and za photos :)
<tseng|work> what is s9y
<herve> serependity, no?
<tseng|work> oh
<tseng|work> yes.. blog stuff
<herve> some name like that
<\sh> yeah...serendipity
<\sh> has a relationship to the movie "serendipity"
<herve> I was close :-)
<\sh> herve: this mistake i did also in the past
<\sh> I made ;
<\sh> not did
<\sh> everytime this english russian romanian german slangish style of writing and speaking..I need to have a nice holiday in the UK
<herve> don't tell me...
<\sh> the team at my company: scottsman, russian, romanian and me ;)  it's really a nasty slang
<\sh> but at least, everybody can understand each other ;)
<\sh> new esperanto
<herve> that's the essential :-)
<tseng|work> garrr
<tseng|work> we wasted so much time talking about f'n times i will have to leave any minute
<dholbach> tseng|work: <Kamion> \sh: by the time people are coming up for maintainership approval, their contributions ought to be obvious even in absentia
<tseng|work> yes
<herve> night all
<siretart> what happened? no quorum again?
<tseng|work> of course not
<tseng|work> its TIME
<tseng|work> siretart: the quorum is fine this time
<siretart> tseng|work: ah, I spotted mdz and keybuk. great :)
<tseng|work> oh man..
<tseng|work> this is painful
<ogra> tseng|work, i tried, sorry
<tseng|work> ok my ride is leaving
<tseng|work> sorry.
<tseng|work> thanks ogra
<tseng|work> see you soon
<lamont> libdc1394 needs xorg-path love
<siretart> \sh: you said you knew how to proceed next, I'm a bit unsure, what did mdz mean earlier with that?
<dholbach> do you have gpg keys already?
<siretart> yeah, I got mine signed by 2 DDs
<dholbach> excellent
<dholbach> you will have to send the signed CoC to mako
<siretart> ok
<dholbach> and then tell elmo wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads
<astharot> good evening! :)
<dholbach> hey astharot!
<dholbach> ROCKing NEW
<siretart> hi astharot
<dholbach> NEWS
<\sh> what about "You will have to send signed mails, stating name, email adress you wish to use and who approved you on which date."
<\sh> to whom? elmo?
<astharot> (in my country it's evening eheh)
<dholbach> \sh: wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads
<\sh> dholbach: ok to uploads@ then :)
<thom> oh man. we're letting all sorts of rabble upload to main now :P
<dholbach> thank you thom
<thom> dholbach: *g* congrats :-)
<dholbach> :-)
<\sh> dholbach: well done dude :)
<dholbach> thank you :-)
<dholbach> \sh: what about your key?
<\sh> so..we will have a lot of beer to drink at ogra's inn :)
<\sh> dholbach: is coming ..:)
<dholbach> \sh: who signed it?
<\sh> I'll need to translate the upload page ;)
<\sh> ogra :)
<dholbach> astharot: you have a signed key as well?
<ogra> :)
<astharot> dholbach: yes
<dholbach> \sh: ah,... excellent
<dholbach> astharot: cool
<ivoks> great guys!
<ivoks> contgrats to all
<astharot> dholbach: I can send you a signed mail... so you can download the public key from a keyserver...
<dholbach> hope we'll all see each other and sign keys :-)
<siretart> actually, who receives mails to keyring@?
<thom> elmo, probably
<\sh> what can I send to keyring@?
<astharot> dholbach: so tell me what to do :)
<dholbach> astharot: send a signed CoC to mako
<dholbach> astharot: then kindly read wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<siretart> \sh: if I read Uploads correctly, thats where we are supposed to send the gpg key.
<astharot> dholbach: already sent the CoC to mako
<dholbach> rock
<dholbach> eben better
<astharot> and he confirmed my "membership" :)
<siretart> I thought the signed key was required for membership already. I sent it to mako that time but never got response. anyway, will resend
<ivoks> i hope one day i'll be like you, guys :)
<dholbach> the key is essential for elmo to get it in the keyring
<dholbach> ivoks: absolutely
<dholbach> ivoks: you're member already?
<ivoks> nope
<dholbach> ivoks: or will we do that in next meeting?
<\sh> dholbach: hes on the list for today
<dholbach> ROCK
<ivoks> i guess in an hour
<\sh> siretart: u read on the http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUOnceYouAreApproved the sentence after "Uploads"?
<siretart> \sh: ah, thats the page I was searching for. thanks for the pointer!
<ajmitch> ah well, I forgot there was a meeting today
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> ajmitch: u missed all the joy and happines
* ajmitch feels disconnected from ubuntu dev lately :)
<dholbach> briefly: it all went well, VERY well
<\sh> I hope i made it right now with this mail ;)
<ajmitch> dholbach: in other words, you're aproved for main? ;)
<dholbach> elmo and mako will tell you
<dholbach> yes, tseng as well, \sh, siretart and astharot are fellow MOTUs
<ogra> :-D
<siretart> wooohoo! :)
<ivoks> ajmitch: < Seveas> ahh, so that's why dholbach is approved for main: fast breakage
<ivoks> :)
* ajmitch might apply in a few months, once he has something worthwhile
<tritium> dholbach, congratulations!  Now don't forget to write that thesis and graduate ;)
<dholbach> ajmitch: your work is ABSOLUTELY good enough for main stuff
<ivoks> true
<dholbach> tritium: thanks :-))
<Nafallo> tritium: he has already graduated to main ;-)
<ajmitch> dholbach: nah, I wouldn't want to break main
<tritium> Nafallo, indeed
<\sh> hmmm..should I send another email to uploads@ i send an email already to this address ;)
* ajmitch is counting down the days until lectures finish at uni
<tritium> ajmitch, I too feel quite disconnected right now.  :(
<dholbach> ajmitch: it's more fun :-)
<dholbach> tritium: me too
<dholbach> tritium: i just showed up for the meetings
* tritium misses the "good ol' days"
<dholbach> they're coming back :-)
<ajmitch> so far I've hardly done anything on CXX Transition :(
<tritium> dholbach, yes, they will...
<ajmitch> ogra: I agree, wiki lists are evil for tracking transitions ;)
<dholbach> ajmitch: me not much either
<\sh> ajmitch: it's the wrong tool for those things
<ajmitch> I always worry that I'm going to slip & break the wiki page when I edit
<ogra> i'm just concerned about the huge amount of lost time
<\sh> ajmitch: i did it the last time...i I didn't know why.. in the textarea everything looked fine..until I found out, there was a hidden char ;)
<dholbach> if you all keep staring at the wiki instead of fixing package ;-p
<astharot> dholbach: can I query you? :)
<\sh> dholbach: it's a mess to jump between bugzilla and wiki
<ogra> yep
<ogra> absolutely
<dholbach> astharot: fire away
<\sh> RT or bugzilla / malone is just enough
<dholbach> most guys don't want to use the bugtracker as a transitionhelper
<ajmitch> RT sounds like it would work
<ajmitch> I know jbailey has set it up before :)
<ogra> dholbach, seb128 isnt "most guys" ;)
<ogra> ajmitch, yep, tat was the plan after the last MOTU meeting...
<ajmitch> ogra: which I also missed :(
<ogra> but it will only help infuture transitions
<\sh> ajmitch: it's a nice tool...easy to handle, good email handling
<jbailey> ajmitch: Eh?
<ajmitch> jbailey: haven't you done RT in your dark past?
<ogra> jbailey, i think he muddles you with elmo
<jbailey> Not so dark past.  I was working on CAnonical's RT install this morning.
<ajmitch> aha
<jbailey> ogra: Not hard.  We look quite alike.
<ajmitch> heh
<ogra> jbailey, could it be reached from the outside world ? to help MOTU ?
<jbailey> ogra: The accent is also hard to distinguish. =)
<\sh> ogra: no
<ogra> hehe
<jbailey> ogra: Just need elmo's approval on it, but I'd be happy with that.
<\sh> ogra: we had this the last time :)
<ajmitch> ogra: don't worry, I did know it was jbailey who had worked with RT
<ogra> jbailey, ow, great.... if you need help to convince him, ping me
<\sh> I was maintainer for RT at lycos ;) after remedy was thrown away ;)
<jbailey> ogra: I'm also usually a sysadmin rather than a coder by trade. =)
* ajmitch is a slacker by trade :)
<ogra> jbailey, hmm... i'm still looking for a DBA for the hwdb ;)
<ogra> else i have to do it mself :)
<ogra> +y
<jbailey> ogra: postgresql and I are not friends.
<ogra> jbailey, sad.... we dont even know each other.... i saw her once on the other side of the road...
<ogra> ;)
<jbailey> ogra: She ain't pretty she just looks that way.
<ogra> lol
<ogra> i once had a little affair with oracle , but i had a DBA i could kick there...
<\sh> ogra: u don't have an affair with oracle...u love her or u hate her
<ogra> \sh, as long as i had william i didnt have to care much about the relationship ;)
<\sh> and a woman who is behaving differently on three men -> I can't cope with her ;)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> ok..i updated the motu page
<\sh> i send an email to keyring with teh data which is needed from https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUOnceYouAreApproved
<\sh> I send an email to uploads@ long time ago
<\sh> i should be ready
<dholbach> uploads@ and keyring@ ?
<\sh> coc is signed and mako approved it
<dholbach> just ask elmo what happened with you, once he's awake again
<\sh> dholbach: uploads@ for email whitelisting
<\sh> and keyring@, cause I'm not sure if my gpg key is in ubuntus keyring
<ivoks> ah... sweet wories :)
<dholbach> \sh: no, not yet, but today you should send it :-)
<\sh> dholbach: what to send? I send everything ;)
<dholbach> sign it, tell that you were approved and you send a bouquet of flowers, if it all works out :-)
* \sh is confused now? what to sign? 
<\sh> well, it's late and I'm old :) so I'm excused ;)
<ogra> just send your key and mail uploads@
<tseng> back
<\sh> oh
<tseng> is meeting still on?
<\sh> ok
<ogra> hey tseng
<dholbach> welcome to main, tseng !
<\sh> tseng: congrats :)
<tseng> dholbach: yay!
<tseng> thanks all
<ogra> hey tseng youre MAINtainer
* dholbach hugs tseng :-)
* tseng hugs dholbach 
* ogra hugs tseng 
<tseng> since i know you got it too :)
<siretart> tseng: congratulations!
<ogra> tseng, lets move MONO !!!!!
<dholbach> :-)
<ajmitch> well done tseng
<ivoks> hehey
<ivoks> another MAINer in here
<ivoks> :)
* ajmitch waits patiently for apt
<tseng> ogra: now to get seeding :)
<ogra> yep
<\sh> ok..mail send to upload@
<ajmitch> seems that we're losing all the MOTUs to main
<ogra> ajmitch, there are new ones in the queue
<dholbach> no.. you're not losing anyone
<tseng> ajmitch: half my stuff is staying in universe probably
<ogra> dholbach and i are bound to MOTU....
<ajmitch> hi Unfrgiven
<tseng> Unfrgiven: hiya
<dholbach> hey Unfrgiven
<Unfrgiven> good morning all
<ogra> hey
<Unfrgiven> im so pumped.... gonna become an offcial ubuntu member :)
<Unfrgiven> hows everyone else?
<dholbach> 07:36 at your place, Unfrgiven ?
<Unfrgiven> yep :)
<ogra> tseng, we'll have to decide what apps go to main, thim proposed to move nearly everything
<ogra> thom even
<tseng> ok
<Unfrgiven> tseng did you become a main uploader?
<tseng> Unfrgiven: yes
<\sh> I promise I'm listening to the right music now :) Queen - Flash Gordon ;) An opera for heroes for a team of heroes :)
<Unfrgiven> tseng: thats awesome! congrats
<tseng> Unfrgiven: thanks dude.
<tseng> \sh: that song is cool
<tseng> FLASH! OOOOO-OH
* ajmitch waits for another build failure :)
<\sh> tseng: 3GB of Queen mp3s right now and right here in my playlist
<Unfrgiven> ok guys, im just going to drop off my wife to work and be right back for the CC meeting.
<tseng> k
<ajmitch> I hate it when the config.* stuff gets into the debdiff
<\sh> hahaha
<\sh> so i'm not the only loser ;)
<\sh> it cost me 1 1/2 day to find a proper solution ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: which package?
<ajmitch> \sh: one that I just did a c++ transition on, why?
<\sh> ajmitch: i had this problem with "dar" (also cxx trans)
<ajmitch> I haven't exactly got a 'proper' solution for it
<\sh> btw...u heard about http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GCC4CommonProblems
<\sh> ?
<ajmitch> and what did you do to fix it?
<\sh> well, I copied new config.* in the configuration section of rules
* ajmitch doesn't like having to change the debian/rules too much just for a transition :)
<\sh> that helped...after that I had this gettext error on amd64 and ia64 ... and put gettextize and autoreconf in the configure section...
<\sh> ajmitch: ask ogra, he was forcing me too :)
* ajmitch sees great lag
<\sh> ajmitch: and in "dar"s rules file, he copied the config.* stuff in the clean: target
<ivoks> oh, crap :(
<ogra> ajmitch, rather change the rules then provide a 1GB patch with config{sub,guess}
<ivoks> o erased config. from my patches
<ivoks> they are pointless
<ajmitch> no, and it doesn't appear to tell me much ;)
* ajmitch sighs
<ivoks> wrong button? ;)
<\sh> ivoks: get a jabber account ;)
<ivoks> \sh: ? what for? :)
<ivoks> i have it
<ajmitch> ivoks: no, freenode issues, of course :)
<ivoks> it;s ivoks :)
<\sh> ivoks: ivoks@jabber.org ?
<ivoks> yes
* ajmitch has a jabber account that gets used sometimes :)
<\sh> ivoks: go online :)
<ajmitch> \sh: so did you have a fix for the config.* getting trodden on? :)
<\sh> ajmitch: show me the rule file :)
<ivoks> there
* ajmitch is working remotely, can't really do that
<\sh> ajmitch: send it via jabber or email :) jid: sh@linux-server.org email: sh@sourcecode.de
<ajmitch> why do you need to see it? :)
<ajmitch> it's fairly standard
<ivoks> it copies config.* from /usr/share/misc
<\sh> ok...then try to find the config.* changes in the rule file (or patches) remove them (at least in the clean target) and copy them or autoreconf them in the configure target
<ivoks> and that's in clean :)
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> remove it there
<\sh> and put them in configure target
<ajmitch> sounds evil
<ivoks> the main thing is that it's after generating .dsc
<\sh> yeah, cause debuild -S / debuild is calling: clean target first
<ivoks> well... meeting
<\sh> but configure target is not triggered for diff.gz
<ogra> http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-01
<ogra> woah...
<ajmitch> ogra: ?
<ogra> ajmitch, seen the blog ?
<ajmitch> it's Just Another Rant :)
<ogra> yeah, but mostly he is true
<ajmitch> sure
<Unfrgiven> back
<tseng> Unfrgiven: anything on devdocs?
<tseng> Unfrgiven: still planning to take up the lead on that front?
<Unfrgiven> tseng: ive got a start on them
<tseng> awesome :)
<Unfrgiven> tseng: and yes still planning to lead them
<tseng> very cool, thanks for picking that up
<Unfrgiven> tseng: im hoping to have a first draft sooinsh....
<Unfrgiven> tseng: my pleasure :)
<tseng> wow, great
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: congrats to you to for becoming an uploader for main!
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: just read the mail :)
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: merci beaucoup :-)
<Unfrgiven> oooh and \sh.... well done... uploader for universe... rocking!
<Unfrgiven> tseng: im still looking for a simple package as a worked example... we had decided on using tomboy at UDU but its gotten more complicated since then... know of any really simple pacakges?
<tseng> oh right with the uuencode business
<dholbach> does anybody know the state of the hello packages?
<tseng> sorry we have to do that.
<tseng> copyrights and all
<tseng> whiprush suggested leafpad
<tseng> a simple gtk+ text editor
<\sh> Unfrgiven: thx :)
<tseng> any other very simple gnome cdbs package suggestions would be appreciated, guys
<tseng> maybe dholbach's timer applet?
<tseng> ive not looked at it
<Unfrgiven> tseng: well ive got a package that i uploaded to universe which i could use as well... but ill give leafpad a look first
<tseng> using yours could be good
<dholbach> tseng: it's very simple
<tseng> ok so, Unfrgiven's package, leafpad, timer-applet
<tseng> all good samples to start with
<tseng> it might be good to start with going over debian/ for one
<tseng> and packaging a different one?
<tseng> so there are 3 to choose from
<Unfrgiven> tseng: yep cool.
<tseng> rock!
<Unfrgiven> tseng: the idea is to have an example that grabs a tarball from source and builds the package from scratch
* \sh has a nice example for kde cdbs
<tseng> yep exactly
<Unfrgiven> so readers can actually partake rather than just read
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: great, I can't wait to see your work :)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: perhaps we could add a kde example as well for the kubuntu people :)
<tseng> sounds like you have the same idea as me then
<tseng> or I just beat the spec into your head :P
<Unfrgiven> \sh: we can add that a bit later
<Unfrgiven> tseng: a bit of both :)
<\sh> Unfrgiven: u r working on the Ubuntu Dev Book right?
<tseng> \sh: this is like Chapter 1
<tseng> "i know nothing about packages, where do I start"
<\sh> well, I got a mail this morning from a guy, who was working up my howto
<Unfrgiven> \sh: Intro Developer Docs.... very intro level... kinda like a debian new maintainers for dummies
<\sh> and I want to get it done later this month...but this is really hard stuff ...
<Unfrgiven> \sh: oh... which how to is this?
<\sh> Unfrgiven: check wiki/StephanHermann second one on the bottom of the page: HowToCreateblabla
<\sh> but i took a really nasty example
<\sh> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch
<\sh> it depends on two packages...which I want to include in breezy
<\sh> one is nasty the other easy and straight forward
<Unfrgiven> \sh: dude i like the amount of detail you have in there... i shall borrow bits and pieces :)
<\sh> Unfrgiven: feel free to take everything :)
<siretart> gn8
<\sh> Unfrgiven: it was the result of at least 20 hours of working out debian new maintainer and apt-get source ;)
<ajmitch> good night siretart
<\sh> cu siretart :)
<ogra> ciao siretart
<dholbach> bye siretart
<Unfrgiven> siretart: gnite
<ajmitch> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule <-- some concrete dates to work towards :)
<siretart> :) *yahn*
<ajmitch> 6 weeks until UVF
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: does that include docs?
<tseng> hm i need to get permission to track mono stuff after UVF
<ogra> Unfrgiven, nope
<ogra> Unfrgiven, see "sep 8"
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: UVF being package versions - so no auto-syncs after UVF
<ivoks> \sh: nice work man
<ivoks> \sh: on howtobuilddebian....
<ajmitch> ogra: do you know if the dates are different for universe?
<\sh> ivoks: far from complete
<tseng> ajmitch: MOM stops for everyone
<ivoks> but great
<ogra> ajmitch, the dates for universe are open as they were for hoary
<tseng> but you are free to upload manually to universe
<ogra> yep
<Unfrgiven> tseng: MOM?
<ogra> we upload till the last minute, like we did for hoary
<tseng> which is really perfect
<ogra> Unfrgiven, merge o matic
<tseng> Unfrgiven: Merge-o-Matic
<ajmitch> tseng: yes, there was talk of it continuing for universe after UVF
<tseng> ajmitch: i wouldnt like that
<Unfrgiven> tseng: ah right... i was wondering what your mother had to do with all this :P
<tseng> you get a chance to fix bugs and finish merging if its frozen
<ajmitch> it things get messy when packages in universe try to sync when their build-deps are frozen
<ogra> Unfrgiven, ivoks lurk at -meeting...
<Unfrgiven> yep im there, thx
<Riddell> dholbach: what's the desktop team?
<Unfrgiven> w00t! thanks for all your support everyone
<dholbach> Riddell: hopefully an effort soon, which will get people involved in bug/enhance/fix stuff for the deskop - since that's what most people are interested in
<Riddell> Unfrgiven: as a IntroDeveloperDocs person do you know about https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuPackagingGuide ?
<Riddell> dholbach: ah but which desktop? :)
<Unfrgiven> Riddell: no i didnt, but thanks for pointing it out... i'll take a look at it for sure.
<dholbach> we need kubuntu, xubuntu, ubuntu, fubuntu and *ubuntu desktop teams soon :-)
* \sh is on kubuntu ;)
<Riddell> \sh: with any luck uniq will be soon too
<dholbach> uniq?
<uniq> dholbach: yes?
<dholbach> ahhh, hi uniq
<uniq> hi.
<dholbach> i never read your nick before :-)
<dholbach> *blush*
<\sh> Riddell: we will dominate the universe ;)
<dholbach> uniq: nevermind me :-)
<Riddell> \sh: bwahaha
<ajmitch> dholbach: but hubuntu isn't a desktop ;)
<tseng> the B word?
<dholbach> we're 19 MOTUs now?
<tseng> hm wow!
<tseng> we rock
<ajmitch> dholbach: we need another 81 by release ;)
<tseng> B WORD
<dholbach> ajmitch: we'll manage
<ajmitch> where?!
<ajmitch> oh dear
<tseng> omfg
<ivoks> uh
<\sh> ivoks: prepare yourself ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i did what i did, i'll talk about it
<ogra> sigh
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> if my ipw2200 doesn't die again
<ivoks> :)
* ajmitch should join the b*ports people :)
<jbailey> ajmitch: Are we leaving you with too much spare time these days? =)
<ajmitch> HAH!
<ajmitch> not yet ;)
<jbailey> Oh good.  You be sure to let me know. =)
<ajmitch> why, do you have a small stack of things to work on? :)
<jbailey> ajmitch: Dude, have I ever *not* had? =)
<ajmitch> sure, before you started working for this lot ;)
<jbailey> ajmitch: Yeah, that only increased my workload. =)
<ajmitch> true
<ajmitch> well I'm finished lectures at uni at the end of next week
<ajmitch> so I might have some time soon
<dholbach> congrats, ivoks!
<jsgotangco> hello motu
<dholbach> hey jsgotangco
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> yay! :)
<\sh> ivoks: congrats
<ivoks> thanks for support :)
<dholbach> you absolutely deserved it
<dholbach> hey JohnDong
<dholbach> any MOTU hopeful still on the CC list?
<ivoks> so, now i should mail elmo?
<JohnDong> hi
<\sh> ivoks: sign coc and mail it to mako
<jsgotangco> sign mako's coc
<jsgotangco> heh
<crimsun> tseng: yes, I am (wxwidgets 2.6)
<jsgotangco> (he wrote it in the first place)
<crimsun> congrats to all our new MOTUs
<crimsun> (and dholbach & tseng for main)
<dholbach> yes, 19! :-)
<dholbach> so any motu hopefuls still on the list?
<dholbach> else i'll go to bed
<dholbach> i'm absolutely tired
<tseng> crimsun: ah rock!
<tseng> crimsun: are those in now/soon?
<tseng> or.. have you tried the WASTE client for linux?
<tseng> im like a schoolgirl over it
<crimsun> tseng: I have not; I wasn't even aware Ron had uploaded wxwidgets 2.6
<tseng> hm
<tseng> someone today said that WASTE was looking for wxgtk 2.5
<crimsun> must be using the tarball or cvs then
<Riddell> \sh: simira is in trolltech?
<crimsun> Ron doesn't feel like the current state of 2.6 is ready for Sid
<\sh> no :) but .no ;)
<Riddell> all much the same
<\sh> but the idea of ubuntu toilet paper...
<\sh> .no is not a big country ;)
<Riddell> well anything above Oslo is just vikings
<ivoks> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/UbuntuCodeOfConduct-0.1.txt ?
<\sh> Riddell: eheh...they found the states ;)
<\sh> before 1492 ;)
<\sh> hmmm...i think i should adjust my alarm to 8am
<ivoks> mine is to 3am
<ivoks> and now is 1:30 :)
<ajmitch_> sigh
<ajmitch_> screen went nuts
<dholbach> argl
* ajmitch_ lost all the nice windows that were open..
<jsgotangco> ogra, ping?
<ogra> jsgotangco, pongedipong
<ajmitch_> yo jsgotangco :)
<jsgotangco> ogra, can hwdb-client extend to usb connected devices?
<jsgotangco> ajmitch_, hello
<ogra> jsgotangco, could you file a whishlist bug  for that as a reminder ?
<ogra> sure btw....
<jsgotangco> sure (Kamion suggested it)
<\sh> ogra: it would be a nice idea to put hwdb and uus together, to have something like linux-stats.org only without bugs and borgs
<ajmitch_> uus?
<ogra> uus ?
<\sh> opis project
<dholbach> popcon.ubuntu.com?
<ogra> \sh, ah, that one...
<\sh> http://bronikowski.com/uus
<ogra> dholbach, nope, something opi write
<ajmitch_> ah right :)
<ogra> dholbach, only for universe packages
<ogra> \sh, but i doubt we'llsee any php on a ubuntu DC server
<ogra> as well as mysql
<ajmitch_> php is not well loved
<\sh> ogra: talk to him to merge to python/postgres
<ogra> but we could link them....
<Mithrandir> ajmitch_: PHP isn't love, so that's appropriate. :P
<dholbach> argl bakery2.3 breaks as well *GRRR*
<ogra> \sh, but currently i'm not sure about marks plans wrt hwdb
<ajmitch_> Mithrandir: I know, I get paid to write code in php :)
<dholbach> oh ROCK, debian has a patch
<dholbach> I  DEBIAN
<\sh> ogra: well, we need a tool to determine the hardware range
<ogra> range ? tool ?
<\sh> hwdb should be a tool to determine the hardware used with ubuntu
<\sh> and the hardware is quite interessting for kernel development
<ogra> \sh, i'm not sure mdz will like the idea to merge hwdb data with software data, i already had this discussion....
<ogra> \sh, but for the rest, indeed, thats one of the planned usecases
<\sh> not to merge, but at least to have an official server for it...common for both: statistics
<\sh> i don't like to see the problem as for gentoo...to many unmaintained packages and too much of crap in the ebuild package repos
<ivoks> ok, now i'm member :)
<\sh> w8 for makos mail ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i will
<ivoks> i have whole night in front of me
<ivoks> drawing roads :)
<Mithrandir> tseng: congrats on main upload privs
<Mithrandir> \sh: and congrats to you for universe upload rights.
<tseng> thanks dude
<\sh> thx Mithrandir and again thx to all of u :)
<dholbach> lots of happy people tonight :-)
<ogra> me too
<ogra> with the fresh blood we have :)
<dholbach> yes
<ajmitch> welcome & congrats to all the new MOTUs
<dholbach> members, motus, main-approvals
<dholbach> a little bit of everything :-)
* ajmitch will have to put his name forward for main at the next meeting or one after
<\sh> well, I was happy last afternoon when I saw that this "dar" libpackage was compiling on amd64...thx Mithrandir for your help btw :)
<ogra> \sh, so you'll upload it yourself then  ;)
<Unfrgiven> thanks all
<dholbach> thanks Unfrgiven
<ogra> Unfrgiven, now on to packaging, so you can upload soon ;)
<Mithrandir> \sh: yay, great.
<\sh> ogra: well yes :)
<Unfrgiven> ogra: yes i plan to get cracking :) but for now, i need to get to work :)
<ogra> yep...
<ogra> :)
<ogra> nice to have you all aboard :)
<dholbach> yes .-)
<\sh> ogra: so when the sun is shining, the gras is dry, i think dholbach, mvo, myself and of course u as the "host" will have a nice time with a barrel of beer :)
<ogra> yeah, just say the date early enough, so we can prepare the house a bit here :)
<dholbach> :-))))
<\sh> ogra: I thought we should leave your house alone...:) the grassland in front of it is enough ... a big tent
<\sh> s/thought/think/
<ogra> sure
<ogra> we can do some camping
* ajmitch wishes he could come & share the beer :(
<jsgotangco> that would be nice indeed
<\sh> ogra: we don't want to stress your better half :)
<ogra> she appreciates that.... but she says she has stress anyway ;)
<\sh> i have to ask my friends, if there is a possibility to have the loud aplifier music system they're using for parties ;)
<\sh> amplifier even
<\sh> just joking ;)
<Unfrgiven> what does TB stand for?
<ajmitch> tech board
<Unfrgiven> ah right
<dholbach> good night everyone
<ogra> night dholbach
<jsgotangco> night dholbach
<\sh> night dholbach and thx
<dholbach> \sh: anytime
<dholbach> bye ogra, jsgotangco
<tseng> bye dholbach
<dholbach> bye tseng, \sh
<dholbach> ok... upload done... i'm off
<jsgotangco> what does dholbach's quit msg mean?
<Seveas> jsgotangco, Leaving
<\sh> quitting
<Seveas> in german
<\sh> leaving
<jsgotangco> ahh
<ogra> its odd, even in german
<\sh> thx to i10n
<ogra> because nobody would say "Verlassend"
<jsgotangco> i thought it was something else because it was in capital V
<tseng> i would say
<tseng> bis spader, i think
<\sh> ogra: the worst what I saw was: abteil einhngen
<ogra> tseng, bis spter
<tseng> yes :)
<ogra> :)
<tseng> i dont have that key
<\sh> ogra: for "to mount partition"
<ogra> lol
<\sh> tseng: \"a
* ogra tries
<ogra>  \"a
<tseng> \"a
<\sh> hahahaa
<ogra>  "a
<\sh> it's tex
<ogra> lol
<tseng> right..
<\sh> or the other way around..long time ago
<\sh> but it's really nice to see some connections in this community... blvszcz and opi
<\sh> blvszcz is also inside the jabber community
<\sh> this is my connection towards him
<\sh> really nice
<\sh> but now...g'night..7am is start of the day
<ogra> night \sh
<zul> meh..there is a backport for the kernel now?
<tseng> zul: i am working with backports people now
<tseng> zul: to reduce the crack addiction
<zul> heh...please :)
<schweeb> tseng is a crack addict
<tseng> only for you, schweeb
<schweeb> you are my crack whore
<tseng> yep
<schweeb> <3
<tseng> tell whiprush to get his lazy ass out of bed
<schweeb> is  he in bed? what a slut.
<tseng> yep.
<zul> man for the backport stuff they should prefix their crap
<tseng> i havent seen him irc for awhile
<schweeb> last I've seen him is 14:03
<ogra> zul, backports simply should die and the guys should do some serious work with us instead of breaking users systems
<zul> ogra: that works as well ;)
<ogra> there is a lot of good manpower we should convert from the dark side
<tseng> exactly
<tseng> but there is also a small bit of legitimate user demand we should talk about first
<zul> oh joy http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=15913
<jsgotangco> wow that is total crack
<jsgotangco> heh jdong's avatar reminds me of bizarro and the borg
<ajmitch> ogra: still alive? :)
<ogra> half way... on my way to bed
<ogra> (03:46am)
<jsgotangco> you need more redbull
<ajmitch> ok.. mind if i borrow some graphics from hwdb?
<ajmitch> and did you put some of those together yourself?
* ogra slurps cheap whisky
<ogra> ajmitch, yep, some of them and no, i dont mind at all grab what you like ;)
<jsgotangco> errmm where do i find irclogs of #ubuntu-meeting?
<ajmitch> btw what's the license on hwdb-client? :)
<jsgotangco> workaround.org doesn't have updated logs
<ogra> ajmitch, hmm, i think i linked to GPL in the packages
<ogra> jsgotangco, people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<ajmitch> ogra: ah, in the packages.. naughty ;)
<jsgotangco> thans
<ajmitch> ogra: licensing is tedious, unfortunately
<ogra> ajmitch, the source doesnt exist elsewhere ;)
* ajmitch is just making a start on an selinux config tool
<ajmitch> ogra: yeah, but each source file is meant to have a license header :)
<ogra> feel fre to copy it in on behalf if you mind...
<ogra> (i dont, do with it what you like... and quote me on that as you like)
<ajmitch> certainly :)
<ajmitch> I'll let you upload any fixed packages though :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> hmm, seems doko doesnt find his bed...
<ajmitch> hehe
<doko> ogra: I don't sleep in the hay on a farm ...
<ogra> hehe...
<ogra> doko, the guys are planning a ubuntu summer camp at my place ...
<doko> did you buy the house for $5000, or the one for $10000, do the guys bring their camping equipement with them?
<ogra> nope, still at my old home...
<ogra> ... i got the termination for my contract for 1. july.... but we decided to ignore it ;)
<ogra> doko, but feel free to attend next month... http://www.grawert.net/gallery/pano/
<ajmitch> how long are you planning to have this camp?
<ogra> some days, i didnt plan it... \sh said one day, "hey, lets meet at ogra's inn" ... since i have no objections, everybody with a tent is welcome... i have 1700 sqaremeters here... space enough for some tents
<ajmitch> :)
<jsgotangco> oh boy i'd love that
<ogra> i do too, but since my landlord terminated the contract i'll hae to move soon...
<ogra> have even
<jsgotangco> if any of you ever get to drop by or plan to travel back in asia, make sure you stop over to my country we have a farm house outside the city that can accomodate at least 15 people
<jsgotangco> its just a 45 minute drive from the capital and you'll save loads of money
* ogra keeps that in mind
<ogra> even if i dont care about money....
<ogra> ... and i got 35 with this attitude already :)
<ogra> doko, btw, i found a old trin station for 20000 near schwerin, vers interesting with 2000 sqm ...
<ogra> s/vers/very
* ajmitch cares a bit about money at the moment ;)
* jsgotangco too
* jaldhar peers through his monocle at the grubby peasants
<ajmitch> hey, I'm not grubby
<ajmitch> I had a shower last week :P
<ogra> lol
* ogra has a order to go to bed now... night all
<ajmitch> night ogra :)
<jsgotangco> night ogra
<\sh> morning *yawn*
<jsgotangco> err you slept like 4 hours?
<\sh> japp
<\sh> old men don't need more then 4 hours *eg*
<\sh> .oO(I'm tired like hell)
<jsgotangco> haha
<\sh> :) well, i will leave at 7am my flat, and be in the office at 7:20am and leaving work at 4pm
<crimsun_> I usually wake at 5:50 a, get to work at 6:30, leave work at 9:00 p
<Lathiat> ouch
<\sh> I'm not allowed anymore to stay more than 8 hours ;)
<crimsun_> thankfully $employer allows me time to work on FLOSS
<Lathiat> floss?
<crimsun_> free/libre/open source software
<Lathiat> ah libre is th ebit i didnt understand
<Lathiat> whats that mean/
<\sh> crimsun_: well it's not the problem with my office itself, it's more my times spending for the company and we have a time account, if this is over an ammount of so many hours, we have to take off
<crimsun_> \sh, yeah I hear ya
<crimsun_> Lathiat, "free" in context, perhaps additional connotations
<crimsun_> ( not a French expert )
<crimsun_> my Latin is rusty, too
<jsgotangco> isn't libre spanish
<crimsun_> could well be, they're all romance languages
<\sh> time to leave
<\sh> laters
<crimsun_> cya
<jsgotangco> yikes its raining so hard outside
<\sh> re
<ivoks> 'morning
<ivoks> omg
<ivoks> did you saw news on slashdot?
<jsgotangco> voyager 1?
<ivoks> no
<ivoks> PGP
<jsgotangco> oh yah
<jsgotangco> RELEVANT FOR CRIMINAL CASES
<ivoks> :)
<jsgotangco> let me get this straight, he's guilty because he has PGP installed?
<ivoks> well, no
<ivoks> but PGP is evidence that he's criminal :)
<ivoks> cause, he's trying to hide something :)
<jsgotangco> what that makes us?
<jsgotangco> potential criminals?
<jsgotangco> heh
<ivoks> well... yeah :)
<jsgotangco> i better look good in a mug shot then
<ivoks> well, it doesn't make me look nothing different
<ivoks> but guys in USA should think about that
<jsgotangco> yeah but some countries use american jurisprudence when they lack local decisions
<ivoks> ok, who's back? :)
<ivoks> jsgotangco: not in europe
<jsgotangco> ivoks, right so
<ivoks> this problem is more political nature for me
<ajmitch> hi jsgotangco, ivoks
<jsgotangco> hey
<ivoks> ajmitch:
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> lol! what a thread :))
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: how does it feel to be a member now? :)
* ajmitch could have sworn you would be a member long long ago\
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, sleepy
<jsgotangco> heh
<ivoks> new MOTU?
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, yah i just let it pass by back then
<ajmitch> ivoks: new member, he's not a motu (yet)
<jsgotangco> no i haven't done any MOTU stuff yet
<ivoks> ah, ok
<ajmitch> we've still got to get him involved
<ivoks> then, like me?
<jsgotangco> i gotta start loving some packages
<ajmitch> ivoks: jsgotangco has been doing docs for ages, and was at UDU
<jsgotangco> heh
<ivoks> ah... ok :)
<jsgotangco> that surprised a lot of people heh
<ajmitch> that you were at UDU?
<ajmitch> or that you weren't a member?
<jsgotangco> member
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> UDU wasn't luck for sure
<ajmitch> hi koke
<ajmitch> here's another UDU veteran ;)
<\sh> ah MOTUs awakening ;)
<\sh> and freenodes mass split
<ivoks> i hate OS X
<ivoks> :(
<ivoks> linux is much better operating system then OSX
<\sh> hmm...anyone has a clue about dh_shlibdeps -N<packagename> ?
<\sh> i don't find anything about this switch in the manpages of dh_shlibdeps or dpkg-shlibdeps
<ivoks> i saw that too
* ajmitch looks
<ivoks> guys :)
<ivoks> man debhelper :)
<\sh> ok....:)
<ivoks> there is -N switch
<ivoks> hm... any1 using firefox around here?
<koke> hi! :)
<Treenaks> ivoks: no, I prefer IE
<koke> I opened my xchat window and forgot to say something :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i have problems with flash :(
<jsgotangco> whats wrong with it
* jsgotangco uses Opera lately
<ivoks> jsgotangco: can you open americasarmy.com?
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> in opera?
<ivoks> in opera is fine
<ivoks> firefox wories me...
<jsgotangco> hold on
<koke> jsgotangco: what's not wrong with it?? :D
<jsgotangco> it opens fine in ff
<jsgotangco> (using flash player 7 though)
<jsgotangco> wow it even has sound
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> thanks
<jsgotangco> you can try www.badgerbadgerbadger.com
<jsgotangco> heh
<ivoks> ok :) strange :)
<jsgotangco> well that's our breezy badger heh
<ivoks> dman swf-player :)
<ivoks> ok, fixed...
<ivoks> swf-player should be repackaged :(
<hsprang> hi!
<\sh> just installed a new breezy chroot on my root server ;)
<ivoks> dchroot :)
<jsgotangco> bye bye
<koke> do you know how painful is a sarge to hoary upgrade??
<koke> I want to have ubuntu in my server too :)
<DanielN> koke: it should work fine
<ivoks> sarge to hoary?
<ivoks> hm...
<DanielN> yes
<ivoks> sarge has some newer packages then hoary
<DanielN> mhm
<DanielN> if the sarge installation is even fresh (without any critical packages)
<ivoks> 31 upgraded, 6 newly installed, 246 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
<ivoks> looks very painfull :)
<ivoks> but this is mostly kde
<DanielN> i think youre speaking about a server?
<DanielN> so what the hell is kde searching on it? ;)
<ivoks> ok, without KDE
<DanielN> ;>
<ivoks> it's aptitude, hal-device-manager, synaptic and couple of python packages
<ivoks> DanielN: koke was asking for server
<ivoks> koke: i'm doing same transition now too :)
<DanielN> outch
<ivoks> koke: going to hoary
<DanielN> slap me :)
<ivoks> koke: be sure to remove sarge sources from sources.list
<ivoks> and it will be just fine...
<DanielN> as i said :)
<ivoks> ok... if ubuntu show good on this server, i'll be ready to deploy it all around
<DanielN> i've got a hoary server too
<ajmitch> koke: if you want to 'crossgrade', do apt pinning
<ajmitch> then it will try & downgrade packages to the ubuntu versions if necessary :)
<DanielN> ivoks, it's working stable and fine
<ajmitch> which may or may not be safe
<ivoks> it's better to do full transition
<DanielN> daniel@marissa2:~$ uptime
<DanielN>  10:33:56 up 17 days, 14:04,  1 user,  load average: 0.13, 0.04, 0.01
<ivoks> :)
<ajmitch> ivoks: that is a full transition :)
<ivoks> DanielN: my uptime is messured in months :)
* ajmitch has a breezy box with an uptime of > 100 days ;)
<koke> koke@dali:~$ dpkg -l | grep ^ii | wc -l
<koke> 494
<ivoks> there goes AIM and ICQ :)
<ajmitch> since I haven't bothered to change kernel or reboot
<ajmitch> which I should
<ivoks> ajmitch: depends
<ivoks> kernel didn't have remote exploits for a long time
<ivoks> if u are only user...
<DanielN> but the kernel update yesterday sucks.. i don't want to reboot my server ;>
<ajmitch> ivoks: sure, it's only a dev box
<ajmitch> but I want to do selinux stuff which requires rebooting now
<ivoks> DanielN: do you have user accounts on that server?
<DanielN> mhm.. of course ?!
<ivoks> well... that's something different :)
<ivoks> DanielN: then you should boot to new kernel :)
<DanielN> security issue?
<ivoks> well, yes and no
<ivoks> attacker can't gaim root privilges
<ivoks> but he can read ur mail while you are reading it...
<ivoks> let's say, he can sniff traffic :)
<DanielN> hrmpf
<DanielN> it's a samba fileserver
<ivoks> but he must have local account
<ivoks> DanielN: you are ok then
<DanielN> so the kernel update isnn't neccessary?
<ivoks> you don't have local accounts then, man :)
<DanielN> sure
<DanielN> smb accounts
<ivoks> but these aren't local
<DanielN> yeah
<ivoks> they don't have shells
<ivoks> or they have? :)
<DanielN> of course, not :)
<DanielN> am i able to disable tis kernel upgrade (that it wouldn't be upgraded by next updates?)
<DanielN> not... if i think clearly ;)
<\sh> koke: i did a debootstrap of hoary on my gentoo box ;) and after this debootstrap i removed all the X stuff
<\sh> but yesterday night at 0:00 I had a nice hickup of jabberd2
<\sh> it stoped serving client connections via c2s
<\sh> I have to investigate this..can be, that there is an issue with the network stack or with c2s itself..(
<koke> is there no libapache2-svn in hoary??
<ivoks> there is
<koke> ouch! I had no universe in sources.list :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> very nice
<ivoks> sarge to ubuntu in 25 minutes
<ivoks> without reboot, ofcourse :)
<koke> maybe the most scary part is ssh -> openssh-server
<ivoks> why?
<ivoks> i hope keys wouldn't change
<ajmitch> because if you're upgrading a server remotely, you hope that ssh won't die & fail to restart ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> good point :)
<\sh> ajmitch: it will fail after reboot if u don't take care that u've installed the ssh-server
<ivoks> one time i did /etc/init.d/networking stop
<ivoks> imagine that :)
<ivoks>  * Restarting OpenBSD Secure Shell server...                                  [ ok ] 
<ivoks> that was ok
<koke> it wants to remove aptitude!!!
<ivoks> yeah :(
<Seveas> hmm
<ivoks> you will install it after that
<\sh> ivoks: check the runlevel settings for sshd
<ivoks> sure...
<\sh> dh_shlibdeps -Ndnet-common -ldebian/tmp/usr/lib
<\sh> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: could not find path for libdap.so.2
<\sh> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: could not find path for libdnet.so.2
<\sh> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: could not find path for libdnet_daemon.so.2
<\sh> same warning with: -ldebian/libdnetc2/usr/lib
<ivoks> \sh: tmp?!
<ivoks> \sh: do you have debian/tmp/usr/lib?
<\sh> ivoks: yeah...and the lib portion installed after movefiles in debian/libdnetc2/usr/lib
<\sh> but for the package: dnet-common
<\sh> dh_shlibdeps  -pdnet-common -ldebian/libdnetc2/usr/lib
<\sh> works ok
<ivoks> of course
<\sh> so I have a problem with the "-N"
<ivoks> \sh: LOL!
<ivoks> \sh: and... did you checkout man page? :)
<\sh> ivoks: jepp
<ivoks> -N i -p are opposite switches
<ivoks> if one works, the other one will not :)
<\sh> Do not act on the specified package even if an -a, -i, or -p option lists the package as one that should be acted on.
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> ivoks: but -pdnet-common is "binary-indep" , so shlibs should do nothing at all
<ivoks> \sh: ssh is ok, no problems, all links were ok after transition
<\sh> ivoks: but for binary-arch this is the problem
<ivoks> uh, there is one problem :(
<ivoks> libc6 :(
<\sh> ivoks: u made a debian -> ubuntu transition via apt-get dist-upgrade? ,-)
<ivoks> yeah :)
<\sh> hmm...I'm reading right now the complete documentation of pbuilder...is it possible to run pbuilder without sudo? if I'm providing new configs via ~/.pbuilderrc I want to run pbuilder as plain user, possible?
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> i'm allways doing fakeroot
<ivoks> fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage
<\sh> hmm
<\sh> pbuilder-uml-howto
<ivoks> To continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say!' oh, my god...
<\sh> lets try to upload
<ivoks> big problems...
<ivoks> \sh: how to avoid this?! :)
<\sh> ivoks: where and what?
<ivoks> dist-upgrade from sarge to hoary
<ivoks> i replaced libc6
<ivoks> but now samba, wget, etc... want newer libc
<\sh> ivoks: don't ask me :) i was doing the debootstrap way ;)
<ivoks> how that one goes?
<\sh> download hoary debootstrap package
<\sh> install it
<\sh> (or use only the tar.gz)
<\sh> run it
<ivoks> ok...
<\sh> chroot it
<ivoks> and then copy over old installation?
<\sh> install all your services u need
<\sh> via apt-get
<\sh> from ubuntu
<\sh> move configuration files to <chroot>/etc
<\sh> or whereever they are on your system...
<\sh> but be carefull..u need a bootable partition
<ivoks> ok...
<\sh> cause kernels and lilo/grub are not installed by debootstrap
<ivoks> and i know where this is going...
<ivoks> that's too much work and needs disk space
<ivoks> it's easier to d/w deb's that i need and dpkg -i them :)
<ivoks> time to go
<ivoks> bye
<\sh> ok..fixed this problem with dnprogs
<ajmitch> wb ogra ;)
<\sh> moins ogra
<ogra> heya
<tseng_> hi all
<ogra> hey tseng
* \sh is tired
<ajmitch> hi tseng
<tseng> hi andrew
<thom> tseng: congrats, now get to work ;-)
<tseng> thanks thom.
<\sh> ok ... one coffee ... one cigarette ...
<ajmitch> ah, about time for me to go off & rest
* ajmitch hasn't uploaded for a week or so now, will have to get back into it in style..
* \sh needs at least the permission for uploading ;) or ogra has to ;)
<\sh> and I decided right now: after the meeting at 1pm I will leave work and take a nap
<Burgundavia> ogra, thanks for doing apt-file
<ogra> report if something goe wrong ;)
<ogra> goes even
<StoneTable> says it depends on libapt-pkg-perl which isn't going to be installed
<StoneTable> if you're talking about breezy
<Treenaks> http://fun.sdinet.de/pics/bug.jpg
<StoneTable> heh
<ogra> StoneTable, did you install with apt-get ? works here ....
<StoneTable> yep
<StoneTable>  libapt-pkg-perl: Depends: libapt-pkg-libc6.3-5-3.9 but it is not installable
<ogra> hmm, works for me on all arches i have
<ogra> ah, ok, thats unrelated
<DanielN> someone working on PHP5 packages?
<StoneTable> k
<ogra> DanielN, talk to infinity in -devel, he once did, i dont know if he still does...
<thom> DanielN: yes
<thom> DanielN: infinity, in his "copious" spare time
<DanielN> ok
<DanielN> thats very pitty
<DanielN> PHP5 rocks :)
* ogra shudders
<DanielN> ?
<Burgundavia> ogra, Depends: libapt-pkg-perl but it is not going to be installed
<ogra> Burgundavia, thats libapt-pkg-perl's fault...
<ogra> not apt-file ;)
<DanielN> ogra: why shuddering?
<Burgundavia> ogra, have you heard the term, "passing the buck?"
<ogra> Burgundavia, yep, but i'm cautious touching mvo's packages without discussion ;) i'll talk to him
<ogra> DanielN, php is evil as hell :)
<Burgundavia> ogra, no biggie
<DanielN> ogra: your mus explain that to me, since i dunno why :)
<ogra> too many security issues
<DanielN> ogra: of course, PHP needs a "safe"-coder .. but then, i can't see more security issues than in any other languages like php
<DanielN> must work now .. cu later all ;>
<ogra> its even a PITA to write something in it....
<\sh> ok...going home...cu later dudes
<ogra> StoneTable, Accepted libapt-pkg-perl 0.1.13ubuntu4 (source)
<Treenaks> \o/ uploaded
<ogra> Treenaks, yay
<ogra> meh, vtk failed to build after 2h buildtime :(
<tseng|work> morning all
<StoneTable> ogra: awesome, just saw t hat
* Treenaks kicks himself
<ogra> where did your upload go to ?
<Treenaks> ogra: h...
<Treenaks> ogra: fixed now :)
<ogra> heh
<tseng|work> ogra when are we seeding mono?
<tseng|work> i am off work on monday
<ogra> tseng|work, i need to mail a list to Kamion
<ogra> so lets assemble a list :)
<tseng|work> mono
<tseng|work> gtk-sharp
<tseng|work> monodoc
<tseng|work> gecko-sharp
<tseng|work> anything else?
<ogra> apps ?
<ogra> beagle
<ogra> tomboy
<ogra> f-spot?
<tseng|work> apps need fixed
<tseng|work> but they can move and get fixed later
<ogra> yep
<tseng|work> f-spot sucks for you?
<tseng|work> crashomatic
<ogra> monodevelop?
<ogra> yep
<tseng|work> MD has 2.x bindings
<tseng|work> eh
<tseng|work> why not
<ogra> do we have a older stable version ?
<ogra> ah, good
<tseng|work> its stable and getting better
<tseng|work> lets just go for it
<tseng|work> tberman will make love to me
<thom> *that's* a scary thought
<tseng|work> ok, so again
<thom> muine?
<ogra> hehe
<tseng|work> mono, mondoc, gtk-sharp, gecko-sharp, beagle, tomboy, monodevelop
<ogra> thom, we have rhythmbox in main already.... do we want redundancy ?
<tseng|work> can we agree on that list to start?
<tseng|work> MD will pull in the 2.x bindings
<thom> ogra: hmm.
<tseng|work> w/o listing them
<ogra> oki
<tseng|work> eh i guess beagle will pull gtk-sharp and gecko-sharp
<tseng|work> and gtk-sharp will pull monodoc
<tseng|work> "tomboy beagle monodevelop"
<ogra> so mono, beagle, tomboy, monodevelop ?
<tseng|work> is the list boiled down
<thom> looks reasonable
<tseng|work> we dont need to list mono
<ogra> ah, yes
<thom> are you gonna mail kamion to change the seeds, or?
<tseng|work> yes.
<ogra> yep
<ogra> done
<tseng|work> thanks
<\sh> *yawn*
<\sh> morning gentlement
<\sh> -t
<bradb> hey guys
<bradb> what do you think of these suggestions for the bugtask listing: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/785?
<Burgundavia> bradb, that makes all the little annoyances that I can think of go away
<bradb> Burgundavia: cool
<Burgundavia> bradb, can we visual severity as well?
<bradb> i think it would make sense to do that
<Burgundavia> maybe just bars, from yellow to red
<Burgundavia> that would allow counting for those people who are colourblind
<Burgundavia> for the sorting on the fly, we are taking fancy javascript, no
<bradb> Burgundavia: question: you say "little annoyances". i feel that the problems that my bug report wants to address are, in fact, problems that currently make bug days almost impossible. what do you think?
<Burgundavia> bradb, by little annoyances, I meant each little thing is very annoying, and as a whole, yes, they do make bug tracking almost impossible
<bradb> Burgundavia: i was planning on the sorting being a GET, not .js (certainly not for the first take, anyway :)
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> I saw a really cool javascript thing floating around, with fast sorting
<bradb> anyone else have an opinion on those suggestions that i made in bug 785? the more consensus i get, the more easily i think i can push for these changes sooner rather than later.
<thom> seems reasonable; if you go for the large number of bugs per page, make sure you repeat the headings at reasonable intervals so people can find out what the columns are
<Burgundavia> maybe at each severity level break
<bradb> thom: good point, yeah
<thom> Burgundavia: no
<thom> that would be horrible
<Burgundavia> ok, then can it float, so that if you the break is at 50 bugs, and you have 51 bugs in severity level X, it doesn't cut hte bug off for the next section
<thom> eh? i can't see why the severity matters to the breaksd
<thom> you just do it every hundred bugs
<Burgundavia> but do you see my point about where you break? if you chop of 5-10 bugs into a new section,you get a visual disconnect
<thom> sure, but you're trying to conflate two different things
<Burgundavia> not really
<Burgundavia> by having a new header, you are drawing a box around each section
<bradb> thom: one question for you to get a clear idea of where we're currently at: would you agree that the bug listing in Malone in its current form is virtually unusable for bug days/triaging/general day-to-day work or is that a bit extreme to say?
<Burgundavia> bradb, it is not much worse/better than bugziila
<thom> Burgundavia: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=MODIFIED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&field0-0-0=product&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=firefox&field0-0-1=component&type0-0-1=substring&value0-0-1=firefox&field0-0-2=short_desc&type0-0-2=substring&value0-0-2=firefox&field0-0-3=status_whiteboard&type0-0-3=substring&value0-0-3=firefox
<thom> feh, that's a horrible url. anyway, that was all i meant
<Burgundavia> thom, yes, I see that
<Burgundavia> that is bugzilla?
<thom> Burgundavia: yes
<Burgundavia> is that stuff inhouse? has it been released back?
<thom> bradb: i think that's extreme; the lack of severity in the list is probably the worst misfeature
<bradb> thom: ok
<thom> bradb: tbh, i think redhat's bugzilla is excellent in terms of design and UI, stealing from it would not be the worst move you could make, visually :-)
<bradb> thom: noted
<Burgundavia> bradb, there are a few tweaks I would make, but yes, it is visually very nice
<bradb> wow, it does look pretty nice :)
<Burgundavia> colour note, I find the white/off-white visually cleaner and easier to read than the blue
<Burgundavia> but if you look at colour theory, and how people process it, everyboyd has a color that they don't read white well on
<Burgundavia> mine is blue
<Burgundavia> or black
<Burgundavia> when I resolve a bug as universe, should I open a malone bug for the same thing?
<\sh> has anybody time for a test?
<DanielN> of course :)
<\sh> DanielN: thx :) can u build a hoary pbuilder env and switch then to breezy pbuilder env? according to wiki/PbuilderHowto ?
<DanielN> hehe
<DanielN> i've tested this already .. without success
<\sh> the day before yesterday it worked ;)
<DanielN> i tried it yesterday .. if i'm not completely wrong
<DanielN> (had a hard day)
<DanielN> ;)
<\sh> hmmm
<DanielN> if you say the day before yesterday.. u mean the problem reffers to the kernel update, \sh ?
<\sh> DanielN: no
<\sh> [19:06]  <\sh> touch: cannot touch `/var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp': No such file or directory
<\sh> [19:06]  <\sh> E: Problem executing scripts DPkg::Post-Invoke 'touch /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp'
<\sh> [19:06]  <\sh> E: Sub-process returned an error code
<\sh> this is my error message
<DanielN> i got another one
<DanielN> but i'll build the whole thing again at weekend, when i've more time ..
<ivoks> hi all
<DanielN> hello :)
<ivoks> I am so angry...
<\sh> fck
<\sh> i didn't remove the update-notifure
<DanielN> \sh: maybe you have a little time for me now? :)
<\sh> DanielN: sure :)
<DanielN> it would be very helpful if you'll have a look at my when package .. so that i know, whats wrong and what i did right (new to packaging and noobie :) )
<ivoks> \sh: now you are MOTU and you have to check out other packages :)
<DanielN> ^^
<\sh> ivoks: looks like :)
<DanielN> you don't have to do that .. if you've got something more important to do, \sh !
<\sh> DanielN: pointer?
<DanielN> MOTUNewPackages ;-)
* DanielN is away shortly for smoking one :)
<\sh> ivoks: I can't even upload until now ;)
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> when should I expect respons from mako? about CoC signing...
<\sh> i took 1 1/2 days for me :)
<ivoks> ok
<herve> hi!
<\sh> hey herve
<ivoks> herve:
<\sh> it's hot and my laptop is even hotter
<ivoks> you can't imagine what happend to me today :)
<herve> no I can't :-)
<ivoks> finnaly, my car was fixed after that car accident
<ivoks> i said, great! now i can move trough city faster :)
<ivoks> but, on first traffic light i heard *pong*
<ivoks> german speeking MOTUs will understand me now
<ivoks> whole auspuff system landed on road
<\sh> hehehe
<\sh> exhaust system
<ivoks> yeah :)
<herve> I still don't get it :-)
<\sh> herve: the part of the car where the steam comes out?
<ivoks> herve: that pipe for CO2
<DanielN> ree
<ivoks> and SO2
<\sh> herve: it dropped on the street
<ivoks> and other toxic waste :)
<herve> ha ok
<ivoks> and they said evertyhing is ok
<herve> it's called exhaust system, I should remember
<herve> they forgot to screw it? :-)
<ivoks> herve: it's auspuff :)
<ivoks> nope, they did't check it at all
<ivoks> you don't screw auspuff
<DanielN> \sh: you've found the package? :-)
<DanielN> nerving i know ;)
<herve> I don't know anything about cars :-)
<ivoks> it would creat too much noise
<ivoks> it's attached to ruber
<\sh> DanielN: yeah
<ivoks> well..
<ivoks> i was so angry
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> DanielN: and my pbuilder is also ready
<DanielN> nice to hear .. so i'm more motivated to try pbuilder too :)
<herve> ivoks, I can imagine
<\sh> DanielN:
<\sh> shermann@server3:~/motu/review/danieln$ dpkg-source -x when_1.0.23-0ubuntu1.dsc
<\sh> dpkg-source: failure: cannot read ./when_1.0.23-0ubuntu1.tar.gz: No such file or directory
<ogra> ouch, a native package ?
<herve> ?
<herve> ogra...
<\sh> the source package is not right
<DanielN> yes
<herve> argh
<herve> herve...
<ogra> herve ?
<\sh> yepp
<ogra> :)
<DanielN> \sh: i called my directories wrong
<ivoks> ok
<herve> ogra, spoke too fast
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i recognized :)
<\sh> DanielN: fix :)
<DanielN> \sh: so the orig.tar.gz was called when1.0.23-0ubuntu1.tar.gz
<ivoks> that's wrong
<ivoks> it shouldn't contain revision
<\sh> completly :)
<DanielN> ivoks: i know
<herve> where's dholbach?
<herve> celebrating his "main" promotion? :-)
<ivoks> ok if you know :)
<ivoks> drung somewhere :)
<ivoks> drunk
<DanielN> \sh: so is this now a revision (fix the prob i mean) .. ?
<ogra> herve, working on his thesis...
<\sh> the upstream package is when-1.0.23.tar.gz
<herve> ogra, that's all I hope
<\sh> tar -xvzf when-1.0.23.tar.gz ; cd when-1.0.23 ; dh_make -e <your email> -f ../when-1.0.23.tar.gz
<DanielN> \sh: i've done it like that ..
<ivoks> DanielN: there is great tutorial, if you need it
<DanielN> ivoks: i used debian new maintainers guide
<herve> DanielN, and you cleaned the extra files and directives you don't need?
<ivoks> yeah, that one :)
<DanielN> herve: you mean i don't think the .ex files?
<DanielN> i don't need ... urgs
<herve> the .ex files and the useless directives in debian/rules
<herve> really make it fits your needs
<DanielN> ok
<herve> not giving the feeling a machine created the package :-)
<DanielN> herve: thanks, very helpful! \sh: thanks also to you.. and tho ivoks...
<herve> you're welcome
<DanielN> so.. i'm away no for short .. to rebuild it :)
<\sh> DanielN: i worked on my first one more then 20 hours ;)
<herve> well, you know you're welcome on #u-m too :-)
<DanielN> \sh: can imagine that .. it's difficult for a newbie
<DanielN> herve: thanks .. i'm very .. mhm .. amazed about the community .. and the devels here aren't suchs.. mhm .. elite guys, if you know what i mean
<herve> nice to hear :-)
<DanielN> btw: how big is the "chance" (bad english) to become MOTU ?
<herve> it is
<herve> big
<DanielN> nice to hear :)
<herve> but it's hard to tell you at which point a maintainer becomes a motu
<herve> there are several criterias involved and interacting with each other
<herve> the speed you gain experience and confidence
<\sh> everyone can be a MOTU :) the title is not important...the fun is much more important :)
<herve> how you make your place in the community
<herve> etc.
<herve> \sh, congrats by the way!
<\sh> herve: thx
<DanielN> \sh: of course .. but it's a better feeling anyway to be "fully"-included .. congrats from me too ;)
<\sh> herve: but without the help of you, guys, no one would make it..and no one would have fun to work on this damn excellent project
<herve> I know this speech :-)
<\sh> DanielN: believe me, when I'm saying: the first time, ogra pushed me into this "adventure" I felt more home then at my gentoo days.
<ogra> heh
<DanielN> hehe .. you was a gentoo devel, \sh ?
<herve> that's the "killer feature" of ubuntu
<herve> lowering the level for users and developers too
<DanielN> herve: i noticed that the first time i joined #u-m :)
<\sh> DanielN: thank god they put my application into the trashbin :) but I was working on the gentoo.de project..
<DanielN> nice
<\sh> DanielN: and I will work furthen on with the gentoo.de e.V. guys (at least I paid my e.V. fees :))
<ivoks> is it bad to contact mako over msg? :)
<DanielN> mhm .. ubuntu and it's community is satisfaction at it's best for me :)
<herve> ivoks, no, you need to fill in an official form ;-)
<DanielN> \sh: and how do you came to ubuntu as your os?
<ivoks> herve: where can i find it? :)
<ivoks> wiki.ubuntu.com/OfficialMakoDisturbing
<ivoks> wiki.ubuntu.com/OfficialMakoDisturbingForm
<ivoks> :)
<herve> ivoks, sure, he's as accessible as can be
<herve> but don't expect an answer too soon
* herve starving
<Nafallo> morning all!
<\sh> DanielN: ogra was working in the same company :) and I was wearing a trolltech (qt) shirt :) so we started our relationship :) he was telling me something about ubuntu and i was telling him something about gentoo
<ogra> i was more convincing it seems.... :)
<\sh> DanielN: after some time, I was curious about ubuntu and installed hoary rc1, cause ogra told me, that he is working on this xscreensaver patch :)
<ivoks> herve: it's ok
<ivoks> lot of people have problems on customs with ubuntu shipping
<\sh> and on hal stuff
<ivoks> so i would like to translate customs_letter
<DanielN> wow .. nice story
<DanielN> :)
<DanielN> the company in which i work is totally windows *verseucht*
<\sh> DanielN: and after going back from hoary rc1 to gentoo I killed my laptop mainboard..and after this incident, i installed hoary :)
<DanielN> eheh :)
<\sh> DanielN: that's one part of the story .. the second part is: I want to learn new things, I want to know other people :)
<DanielN> \sh: same to me ;) and i did it in #u-m ;)
<Burgundavia> ogra, should i open a malone bug for something I mark as resolved:universe in bugzilla?
<ivoks> hi doko
<ogra> Burgundavia, yep, if its still open
<ivoks> silly me :)
<Burgundavia> ogra, ok, grr
<Burgundavia> ogra, how do I make a product be able to file bugs on it?
<herve> hi to those arrived
<doko> ivoks: hi
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> isle of man is part of United Kingdom?
<ivoks> lol, i can't translate isle of man :.
<DanielN> \sh: only one question: should the package install in /usr/bin or in /usr/local/bin
<\sh>  /usr/bin
<DanielN> thanks
<DanielN> lol i think i removed one thing too much .. "when command not found" ^^
<\sh> wiki/UniverseNewPackages are for new software not in the Universe, right? just a UniverseSoftwareWishList
<Amaranth> If I'm trying to get a package sponsored for upload to universe should I put it on MOTUNewPackages?
<Amaranth> I don't think I can be a MOTU (mostly because I can't get my key signed).
<\sh> Amaranth: put it on :)
<Amaranth> \sh: have to wait for a new PyXDG release and then for that release to get into main
<herve> \sh, not in Ubuntu nor Debian
<\sh> herve: yeah..the right page is UniverseCandidates ;)
* herve lost
<herve> let's have a request tracker soon!
<herve> :-)
<\sh> herve: *thumbsup*
<herve> do you get some ".Xsession" empty dialog at the start of gnome?
<\sh> no..no gnome here
<ivoks> it's time for transition! :)
<herve> it's time for sleeping!
<herve> Zzzzzzz...
* DanielN is wathing the O.C. now
<DanielN> ^^
<herve> oc?
<DanielN> O.C. California
<DanielN> 3mins left until start .. must go now :)
<Nafallo> DanielN: on what channel? #ubuntu-meeting? :-)
<DanielN> no .. it's called ProSieben ;)
* Nafallo googles :-P
<ivoks> oc :))
<Nafallo> aha, tv :-P
<ivoks> it's not soo good to watch :)
<ivoks> bunch of people 30-40 years, acting like they are 16 or 17 :)
<herve> I don't even have tv
<Nafallo> herve: same here :-)
<\sh> hmmm...plain user support is not my type of work ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> that was one of my conditions to work in this company
<ivoks> not to work with end users :)
<Burgundavia> user support is not pure evil, just mostly
* Burgundavia used to be a windows help desk monkey
<\sh> well, in the end, I'm expecting too much ;)
<\sh> reading e.g.
<\sh> trying and making mistakes
<ivoks> they can't explain their problems...
<\sh> well, I'd explain one guy now, how to mount his partition...he didn't understand...and one second later, he wants to do it as root on the console
<ivoks> ?
<\sh> yes...that was my reaction "??"
<ivoks> well, he isn't wrong :)
<\sh> hey tritium
<tritium> hello \sh
<\sh> ivoks: but what is the difference between: sudo vi /etc/fstab and enter a line and sudo mount <mntpoint>
<\sh> or sudo su -
<\sh> and mount <bla>
<\sh> he didn't even know how to get a root shell
<ivoks> \sh: big difference
<ivoks> ah...
<ivoks> diff beetwen sudo and su :)
<\sh> ddiff sudo su -> do
<\sh> ;)
<\sh> u see :) I'm nuts
<\sh> well, I check cxxlist
<ivoks> that's nothing
<ivoks> on time i sad to a guy:
<ivoks> copy prism2-source-whateverversion to /tmp
<ivoks> he said to me:
<ivoks> there is no file prism2-source-whateverversion
<ivoks> he acctually typed that
<herve> " - what's printed on your screen?
<herve>  - IIyama "
<\sh> bofh (tm)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> the best one i saw and couldn't belive...
<ivoks> woman calls me that she doesn't have Word anymore
<ivoks> ok, i camed and ok...
<ivoks> there is word icon on desktop
<ivoks> click -> word opens
<ivoks> so i ask, where is problem?
<ivoks> she claims that's not her word... her word was different
<ivoks> hm.... did you reinstall it? or something?
<ivoks> no, it looks like mine, but this isn't mine word..
<ivoks> ok, i'm closing word and she screems yes, thank you!
<ivoks> i was like... ????
<ivoks> she opens that same icon and says thank you, that's my word
<ivoks> i'm leaving the room, really not knowing what's different, and then it strikes me
<ivoks> i maximized the window before closing it
<herve> permit I tell this one? :-)
<ivoks> sure :)
<ivoks> ISO C++ forbids declaration of 'SCTPSocket' with no type
<ivoks> lol, who wrote this program? :))
<ivoks> ah... bye all
<herve> bye
<ivoks> ajmitch: ping
<herve> overnight, already? :-)
<herve> ivoks, he's probably at work
<ivoks> no... i just saw that app i was going to patch to compile
<ivoks> it's been taken by ajmitch
<ivoks> so i wanted to check how it is going :)
<ivoks> but ok.... he will do it :)
<ivoks> bye now :)
<herve> night!
<saintsjd> There are some packages in debian SID that I am will to work on to fully support in Ubuntu.  I have read the MOTU documentation, but I still am little unclear.    What are the specific steps I need to take to unsure that the packages are supported in a future release of ubuntu?
<ogra> if they are in sid we can simply sync them from there...
<ogra> hi btw
<saintsjd> I finally made it
<ogra> yay
<saintsjd> what do you mean by sync them?
<ogra> currently we are in a state with the distrobution where packages from debian get synced automatically to our build daemons... so they will hit breezy anyway i they are in debian
<ogra> if even
<ogra> normally such packages "just build" but since we are changing a lot in the underlying architecture which didnt get changed in debian yet (but eventually will after sarge released), it might be possible that they need some manual love, so everybody helping out here is very welcome
<ogra> to become a MOTU you have to go through some steps... (similar to the debian NM process, but waaay faster ;) )
<saintsjd> Oh. ok.  can we talk about a specific example. The package that I am interested in maintaining for Ubuntu is called mapserver.  I know that it is unstable now.  It depends on python 2.3. Ubuntu is using 2.4.  Is this adjustment the type of "love" you mention?
<ogra> YAY
<saintsjd> ok
<ogra> did you see the UbuntuGIS wiki page ?
<saintsjd> yes.
<saintsjd> No one seems to be working on it now
<ogra> yep, thats the adjustment i meant... but ubuntu still has python2.3 components for backwards compatibility so it might work right away, but i'm happy someone is interested in the GIS stuff finally
<Burgundavia> some interesting and knowledgable abut GIS? Can it be?
<ogra> currently we change a lot due to the C++ transition and the change to gcc4
<ogra> Burgundavia, yeah... we are lucky guys, arent we ?
<ogra> :)
<Burgundavia> I have the interest, but absolutely no knowledge
<saintsjd> how could I get started with trnsitioning the mapserver package to pythom 2.4?
<saintsjd> I am very intereested!:)
<ogra> saintsjd, i was the guy who started the GIS project and Burgundavia assembled the awesome list on the wiki, so you just met the right ppl :)
<saintsjd> wow!
<saintsjd> I really would love to contribute! I ahve been working on debianGIS and would like to bridge that effort to Ubuntu.
<ogra> sure, but you should first have some basic experience in packaging... and to become a MOTU you'll need to become a member first
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> exactly what we're looking for :)
<ogra> to become a memberthe first thing to do is to create a wiki page for you
<saintsjd> Will do the WikI page. I know this might seem basic, but to start practice packaging on my own PC what special configuration of ubuntu do i need?
<ogra> here is a perfect one (yours doesnt need to be this perfect) http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DanielRobitaille
<saintsjd> how do i get a gpg key?
<ogra> look below the MOTU wiki page, there are some links... especially the PbuilderHowto and the DeveloperRessources might be interesting
<ogra> do you have a local LUG near you ?
<Burgundavia> ogra, mine is better. It referred to me as a "creator of hot air"
<ogra> lol
<Burgundavia> but then again, I have been able to expel hot air, in person, at Mataro
<saintsjd> LUG?
<ogra> Linux User Group
<Burgundavia> linux users group
<saintsjd> I am in DC. I assume so.
<ogra> theytend to meet regulary, mostly you'll be able to find someone who can sign your key
<ogra> additionally you can look at biglumber for people in your area and just mail and ask tem to meet for a coffe or something...
<saintsjd> Ok. so.. I 1) create a WIKI page 2) read the docs 3) get a gpg from LUG
<ogra> yep
<|QuaD-> finally back home and computer is set up :)
<|QuaD-> don't want to fubar my system by dist-upgrade though
<ogra> then 4.) make a contribution of any kind (a howto wiki page, a background image, fix a bug or whatever) ...
<ogra> 5.) set yourself on the CommunityCouncilAgenda and show the CC what you've done to get your membership...
<ogra> ... in a CC meeting...
<saintsjd> Ahh...
<tseng|work> its not really just anyone in your LUG
<tseng|work> you need to get a trust connection back to us
<ogra> tseng|work, if people are on biglumber its likely they ae connected anyhow to us...
<tseng|work> oh you found him one
<tseng|work> ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> i just pointed to biglumber before
<saintsjd> biglumber?
<saintsjd> creating a wiki page now...
<ogra> http://biglumber.com/
<|QuaD-> quadisgod1
<ogra> all people listed there are willing to sign you
<|QuaD-> :)
<ogra> :)
<tseng|work> one more pass of my snmp poller and i can go home
<Burgundavia> can we ship a version in Breezy before they release it in RHEL? --> http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;415878037;fp;2;fpid;1
<ogra> tseng|work,  yay, you finally made it ?
<|QuaD-> what distro is mono-live based off of?
<ogra> |QuaD-, guess
<Burgundavia> not that hard
<|QuaD-> suse?
<Burgundavia> nope, try again
<ogra> |QuaD-, hint -> tseng
<|QuaD-> haha, ubuntu?
<ogra> :)
* Burgundavia gives the man a cookie
<|QuaD-> ahh, :)
<saintsjd> will breezy do it --> http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;415878037;fp;2;fpid;1
<Burgundavia> if we can find someone to package it
<Burgundavia> I have barely gotten my feet wet with packaging
<Burgundavia> and thus don't want to touch server stuff
<|QuaD-> bbl
<saintsjd> Thanks all. This is enough to get me started!
<saintsjd> Getting GIS and Directory stuff in Ubuntu will really be great.
<ogra> yeah, thanks for coming around, we all really appreciate it :)
<Burgundavia> saintsjd, would you mind taking a quick look at the non-packaged GIS stuff and tell us what is useful, and what isnt?
<saintsjd> definitly can do it.
<ogra> hmm, adding some info to that page could be a reasonable contribution for memebershio ;)
<ogra> s/o/p
<saintsjd> :)
<saintsjd> Seems like our best bet is to closely work with DebianGIS.  Are you all on that list?
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> I guess I should be
<ogra> nope, but thats a good call
* ogra has to handle ~200-300 mails a day.... dunno if i can bear another list...
<saintsjd> I have gotten a very mild response in posting I have made to the list about possible Ubuntu->DebianGIS collaboration
<ogra> mild == nothing ??
<Burgundavia> ogra, breezy-changes, bugzilla, -devel, sounder, plus about 5 others or varying size
<saintsjd> basically. nothing, and a little resistance.
<ogra> yep...
<ogra> saintsjd, thats the sad reality with most DDs
<Burgundavia> cool
<Burgundavia> http://www.refractions.net/
<Burgundavia> these people are based in Victoria
<ogra> they dont get the fact that they benefit from that
<Burgundavia> sorry to comment on this, but there is a lot of "Not made here" in debian
<Burgundavia> it is really sad
<ogra> yrp
<ogra> s/r/e
<Burgundavia> even amongst debian itself, NMU's
<ogra> but in fact our patches willflow back to them and they get a huge tester community
<Burgundavia> geez, most of the OSS gis stuff is Canadian
<Burgundavia> mapserver, postgis, ka-map, udig
<ogra> grass started in germany and moved to italia
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> the web stuff is mostly canuck though
<Burgundavia> this should be a high priority, after mapserver
<Burgundavia> http://ka-map.maptools.org/
<saintsjd> agreed
<ogra> yeah, thats very cool
<saintsjd> ok kids. I am out. thanks for getting me started.  I will be back with questions.
<ivoks> hi
<ogra> hey
<ivoks> i see only 2 or 3 FTBS :)
<ivoks> that's nice..
<ogra> yep...
<ivoks> error: cast from 'void*' to 'int' loses precision
<ivoks> oh, come on! that's fine
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> who wants accurate computers? :)
<Burgundavia> ivoks, you are an order of magnitude out
<ivoks> Burgundavia: ?
<ivoks> hm, this compiles on i386, but not on amd64 and ia64
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-02
<ajmitch> ivoks: pong... :)
<ajmitch> what was the app you were wanting to work on?
<ivoks> ajmitch: never mind :)
<ajmitch> pfft..
<ajmitch> fine :)
<ajmitch> tell me what it was so I can work on it ;)
<ivoks> ajmitch: sec...
<ivoks>  socketapi
<ajmitch> aha
<ivoks> cast from 'OHtmlElement*' to 'int' loses precision
<ivoks> one more
<ajmitch> fun times... socketapi builds, I just have to fix up the transition parts now :)
<ivoks> builds?!
<ajmitch> sure, I've got a few that need hacking
* Burgundavia curses the MOTUs for filling his inbox
<ajmitch> I did no such thing
<ivoks_> ?
<ajmitch> !
<ivoks_> yeah, my inbox is full too :)
<ajmitch> from what?
<ivoks_> from doko :)
<ajmitch> cxx transition stuff?
<ivoks_> yeah
<ivoks_> what's wrong with this?
* ajmitch gets no mail about that
<ivoks_> libstrutilsxx 0.7 libstrutilsxx0.7c2
<doko> make less mistakes, then it doesn't get full
<ivoks_> yeah, i know...
<ajmitch> hi doko :)
<ivoks_> i'm still learning
<doko> libstrutilsxx0.7, not libstrutilsxx0.7c2 IIRC
<doko> hi ajmitch
<ivoks_> ok
<ivoks_> omg :) stoopid mistake
<ivoks_> that happens when u do two packages in same time :)
<ivoks_> doko: should this be ...-ubuntu2?
<doko> yes
<ivoks_> patch uploaded
<ivoks_> that was pretty ASAP :)
* HostingGeek curses Burgundavia for spaming the top of his scroll back
<ogra> ivoks_, sadly i'm too tired to upload it now...
<Burgundavia> huh?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: just ignore it.. :)
<ivoks_> ogra: :) but doko said ASAP... noooo.... :)
<ivoks_> ogra: it's ok ;)
<ogra> :)
<ogra> doko is used to my lazyness.... and he knows how i hate c++
<ivoks_> huh... that was a shock :)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> ogra, lazy?!
<ajmitch> never
<ogra> ajmitch, but i'm good at delegating ;-P
<ajmitch> yep :)
<ogra> especially if tseng supports me in it... and you are the target ;)
<tseng> pushover.
<ogra> heh
* ajmitch ought to do the hwdb license delegation you coerced me to do yesterday ;)
<ivoks> ok... i will deal with this trivial long - int problems tomorrow
<ivoks> bye all!
<ogra> night ivoks
<Burgundavia> ogra, joined the debian gis list
* Burgundavia now curses MOM for filling his inbox
<Mithrandir> tseng: hm, is beagle known to be FUBAR in breezy atm?
<Burgundavia> seems to be for me
<Mithrandir> it blows up with:
<Mithrandir>      Assembly:   dbus-sharp    (assemblyref_index=4)
<Mithrandir>      Version:    0.23.4.0
<Mithrandir>      Public Key: 9eef2692033670f5
<Mithrandir> The assembly was not found in the Global Assembly Cache, a path listed in the MONO_PATH environment variable, or in the location of the executing assembly (/usr/lib/beagle).
<Mithrandir> for me
<thom> yeah, dbus-cil definitely dead
<ogra> Mithrandir, we'll have to wait for the next dbus build...
<Mithrandir> ogra: where in the queue is that? :)
<ogra> nowhere i guess... i think daniels has to enable it in the source first...
<Mithrandir> ah, ok
<thom> well, mono needs to move to main then you can do that, yes
<Mithrandir> well, 'night
<ogra> thom, it moved today (technically)
<thom> ogra: nod
<|QuaD-> Mithrandir: beagle cvs doesn't actually need dbus
<tseng> Mithrandir: partly
<tseng> Mithrandir: yes.
<tseng> Mithrandir: i need libdbus-cil first
<|QuaD-> tseng: why not just wait untile the non-dbus beagle is released?
<tseng> |QuaD-: whichever comes first
<tseng> i think i have some idea what i am doing by now :)
<Lathiat> nah dude your stupid and know nothing. ;)
<tseng> you caught me
<|QuaD-> tseng: hah :)
<Lathiat> :)
<Lathiat> creeps getting mono/ikvm/md to work from svn is a pain in the ass.
<tseng> i wouldnt recommend that
<Lathiat> heh
<tseng> hm is there anything cool i could use to play muine on my laptop through my speakers on desktop?
<tseng> wirelessly
<Lathiat> esd and set ESPEAKER ?
<tseng> i guess i could get a decent bitrate stream with uh
<Lathiat> or write a gst plugin to ship stuff over the network
<tseng> icecast and acast
<Lathiat> .. and keep sync
<tseng> i never used esd over the network
<tseng> is there a manpage on that
<Lathiat> yeh iirc basically you do esd -tcp
<Lathiat> and then set ESPEAKER to the ip
<Lathiat> and start the program
<tseng> k
<Lathiat> man esd should say
<Lathiat> altho i seem to remember taking alot of effort to find it last time
<|QuaD-> does xen work yet?
<|QuaD-> for ubuntu
<tseng> Lathiat: oh man that actually works
<tseng> pretty neat
<prevod> http://www.xraymag.com/pdfs/xray_v3_n2.pdf
<ajmitch> afternoon all
<tseng> ajmitch: hi
* ajmitch wonders why trulux wanted to keep talking to me after I said I was leaving?
<tseng> he loves to talk
<tseng> i guess.
* ajmitch nods
<jsgotangco> helo motu :)
<crimsun> 'lo
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> nasty, a lib that compiles with g++-4.0_4.0.0-5ubuntu1 but not -7ubuntu7
<ajmitch> where is doko when you need him?
<Lathiat> tseng: :)
<tseng> Lathiat: ?
<Lathiat> tseng: the esd thing from earlier
<tseng> ah rock on
* lamont scratches his head at 'Rejected' status on https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/761
<lamont> because it's main???
<Burgundavia> lamont, dup
<Burgundavia> 762
<Burgundavia> I was only told that you can now, in fact, mark things as dups
<Burgundavia> now marked as a dup
<lamont> ah, coolnes
<lamont> s
<lamont> reject would tend to beg a comment....
<Burgundavia> I didn't want to mark fixed, as it wasn't
<Burgundavia> so I rejected them
<Burgundavia> hmm, marking things as dups does not remove them from the view it seems
<Burgundavia> can I have opinions on https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/809
<Burgundavia> as it is like to affect us the most
<crimsun> hmm
<crimsun> the idea is certainly interesting, but we really should just encourage people to join
<jsgotangco> is it advisable to use malone now instaed of bugzilla?
<Burgundavia> crimsun, not everybody can package
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, for universe, use malone
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, for main, use bugzilla
<jsgotangco> ah
<crimsun> MOTU is supposed to be a mentoring process, too
<Burgundavia> yep, but there are people who honestly cannot package or have no interest in packaging
<Burgundavia> but they do want something in Ubuntu
<Burgundavia> like my father or my brother
<crimsun> then they'll file bugs, and you'll assign them to yourself and maintain them, correct?
<Burgundavia> they should have an outlet for these requests
<Burgundavia> crimsun, bugs are a crude hammer for this sort of thing
<Burgundavia> we should cloak the bug interface in an easy to use one
<Burgundavia> they are still bugs inbehind
<Burgundavia> but the user doesn't need to see that
<crimsun> hmm, so to start with, the complement of the intersection of Sid+experimental & Breezy?
<Burgundavia> no
<crimsun> (on packages.u.c)
<Burgundavia> I am looking to use the FindingPackages spec in another way
<abarbaccia> hey all - so the other day my breezy install fell apart - whats up with that?!
<Burgundavia> you run breezy
<Burgundavia> welcome to life
<abarbaccia> hahah - well, not anymore
<abarbaccia> lol
<janm> hi everyone
<abarbaccia> had to go back to hoary - can't run it on my everyday computer if it breaks when i need to do work
<Burgundavia> can request a package to be transitioned soon? scorched3d
<Burgundavia> my brother needs to kick my ass ;)
<jsgotangco> GAMES ARE NO FUN
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> :D
<Burgundavia> oh right, I am running linux now, no games for me
<jsgotangco> seriously though, there are some pretty good linux-only games out there
<jsgotangco> brb
<tseng> hi
<\sh> moins
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> time to fix some packages :(
<\sh> haha...dokos work
<ivoks> how can i test my source on amd64 or ia64 platforms?
<tseng> ogra: wow thanks for fixing my dpu
<tseng> ogra: dput
<siretart> hi
<siretart> ivoks: you could ask someone with an amd64 for doing a test build
<ivoks> i know that :)
<\sh> i could need a cofffee
<siretart> assuming my key was not yet in the keyring, but my email is whitelisted. what would be the reaction of the archive scripts if I upload a package?
<thom> no key, no uploady
<ivoks> simple as that :)
<siretart> no message like "your upload was rejected because you suck"?
<tseng> siretart: your upload vanishes into outer space
<siretart> ok. then I'm not added yet. thanks :)
* \sh too is not added
* ivoks doesn't know what keys you guys are talking about :)
<tseng> gpg
<Treenaks> ivoks: gpg keys
<ivoks> it was a joke...
<ivoks> ok :)
<siretart> ok. will prepare more packages then and flood the archive with a whole bunch of uploads ;)
<tseng> only packages signed by an approved key can be uploaded and moved to buildd queue
<ivoks> my packages are signed
<Treenaks> siretart: uh.. and make the mailserver suffer even more?
<tseng> "approved key"
<ivoks> but my sign is useless for now :)
<siretart> tseng: :=)
<tseng> time for work
<tseng> bye
<ivoks> bye
<siretart> bye tseng
<\sh> cu tseng
<ivoks> hm... it's holyday in croatia :)
<\sh> i just woke up because of people singing and praying on this damn graveyard next to my flat :(
<Treenaks> \sh: play some loud metal
<ivoks> trash metal :)
<Treenaks> death metal
<Treenaks> (would me more appropriate, it's a graveyard)
<ivoks> play Him, they will stop praying and start laughing :)
* \sh is playing "Breaking the Law" by Judas Priest on British Steel
<\sh> i don't like death ;)
<\sh> good handmade music ;)
<\sh> rob halford
<ivoks> brintey rulz! :)
<ivoks> \sh: any results?
<\sh> ivoks: sorry...wasn't lookin on the query...
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> it's ok
<\sh> ivoks: downloading :)
<ivoks> k
<\sh> argl.
<\sh> Mithrandir: dpatch doxygen and xlibs-dev (thx)
<Mithrandir> \sh: done.
<\sh> thx
<\sh> ivoks: i don't get your error :)
<\sh> ivoks: but
<\sh> c++ -o example main.o  -L../lib/libxclass -lxclass -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lXpm -lXext -lX11 -lXpm -lXext -lX11
<\sh> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lxclass
<ivoks> \sh: that's because you had error before..
<ivoks> scroll up
<ivoks> xclass lib didn't build
<\sh> ah yes...scrolled
<ivoks> anything?
<\sh> moment
<ivoks> don't fix it :)
<ivoks> i would like to do that...
<ivoks> Mithrandir: ping
<Mithrandir> yes?
<ivoks> is it possible to get chroot on some amd64 or ia64 for testing purposes?
<Mithrandir> yes.
<ivoks> so i don't ask people arround to test it for me..
<ivoks> oh, great...
<Mithrandir> signed mail (with a key either in the debian or ubuntu keyring or at least signed by one who is) to me (tfheen@err.no), cc to maswan@acc.umu.se, state wanted user name, include ssh key and ask for access to ravel.
<ivoks> doh... :)
<ivoks> i don't have signed key :(
<ivoks> ok, evenutally that will come to
<ivoks> thanx Mithrandir
<\sh> ogra: ping
<ogra> \sh, po
<Mithrandir> ivoks: nothing personal, but I would really like to have something at least resembling a trust path to you. :)
<ogra> n
<ogra> g
<Mithrandir> ivoks: you could ask maswan on #u-d, though.  He's the owner of the box so it's his call.
<ivoks> Mithrandir: i agree with you ;0
<ivoks> that's supposed to be ), not 0 :)
<\sh> ogra: are u somewhere organized in a LUG?
<ogra> nope
<ivoks> so, what's the procedure to get key signed?
<ivoks> i guess I have to be MOTU for that, right?
<ogra> nope
<ivoks> no?
<ivoks> hm... ok :)
<\sh> ogra: I'm thinking about a presentation for luusa
<Treenaks> ivoks: keysigning is not motu-specific
<Treenaks> ivoks: http://www.cryptnet.net/fdp/crypto/gpg-party.html
<ivoks> ah...
<\sh> ogra: http://www.luusa.org/
<ivoks> i had my key signed, but i lost my hard disk and didn't have backup :(
<ogra> where is sankt augustin ?
<ivoks> so, this is my new key...
<\sh> ogra: it's between cologne and bonn :)
<\sh> next to troisdorf
<ogra> ah, sounded bayrish :=)
<\sh> ogra: yeah
<\sh> ogra: so what do u think, about an Ubuntu presentation?
<ogra> why not
<Treenaks> ivoks: find someone to do keysigning stuff with
<ivoks> will do
<ogra> ivoks, look at www.biglumber.com, probably there is someone in your area wanting to sign you
<\sh> ogra: ok...i want to have it in two parts...1. part => user perspective and 2. part => developer perspective...at least the work between debian and ubuntu..how the ubuntu work merges back to debian
<\sh> and for the 2. part it would be nice to have u on board :)
<ivoks> \sh: i hope you have spare time :)
<\sh> ivoks: sparetime?
<ogra> \sh, as long as it doenst collide with my schedule i'm fine with that
<ivoks> free time
<\sh> ivoks: free time?
<\sh> ogra: we have to organize it :) i don't want to hold u up :)
<\sh> ivoks: well, I have at least one weekend where I'm doing a completly brain reset
<\sh> ivoks: brain reset == visiting an irish pub and drinking many guinness
<ivoks> \sh: kilkenny is much better :)
<ivoks> \sh: i tought you could check out one more source for me...
<ivoks> :)
<Zarquon> I thought I could change window managers @ Applications->System Tools->Configuration Editor : /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager ? Did I miss something or do I too need guiness?
<\sh> and I will produce now a nice coffee for me...
<\sh> Fehl http://de.archive.ubuntu.com breezy/universe arkrpg 0.1.4b-6 (dsc)
<\sh>   Konnte Datei arkrpg_0.1.4b-6.dsc nicht ffnen - open (2 Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden)
<ivoks>  warning: cast from pointer to integer of different size
<ivoks> should i fix that? :)
<ivoks> it's only a warning :)
<Treenaks> ivoks: warnings are the root of all evil!
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i will need help with this one
<ivoks> it doesn't compile on amd64 and ia64
<ivoks> it does on i386
<ivoks> that warning is for:
<ivoks> block = (INT32*)((INT32)res+ \  (INT32)number*(INT32)size);
<ivoks> wihout that \
<ivoks> typedef int INT32;
<Treenaks> ivoks: ah! int != int32
<ivoks> i don't like this :(
<ivoks> there is too much WIN in this file :)
<ivoks> it even has include <windows.h>
<ivoks> time to eat something...
<abelli> ciao
<siretart> hi abelli
<abelli> anyone here knows where i should report packaging problems of the ruby related packages?
<siretart> has anyone a explanation why firefox on my amd64 is not able to login on the ubuntu wiki whereas on my i386 box is? somethings must be broken, but I dont see what (both hoary)
<siretart> abelli: tell us here. whats the problem?
<abelli> i encountered problems with ruby gems installing pimki this is what the mantainer of pimki told me after some debugging :
<abelli> "14:38 < abelli> i encountered some probs installing pimki with gem ..
<abelli> ahhh soory .. :)=
<abelli> The only way I can think this might have happened is that you're on
<abelli> some debian flavoured linux where the packagers crippled ruby by
<abelli> some debian flavoured linux where the packagers crippled ruby by breaking the stdlib in very non standard ways"
<abelli> ok .. sorry pasting problems ..
<abelli> siretart: did you get an idea of what he wanted to mean?
<abelli> or should i re-paste it .. in a better manner :)??
<siretart> abelli: I'm sorry. but I'm also not that into ruby
<siretart> abelli: try repasting it on pastebin oder paste.debian.net
<abelli> shttp://paste.debian.net/515
<siretart> shttp? ;)
<abelli> siretart: well i need to go .. should i contact directly the mantainer or you can do it?
<Treenaks> siretart: that's HTTP with STARTTLS ;)
<abelli> ... just take of the s :)
<siretart> :)
<abelli> Treenaks: ciaooooooo
<Treenaks> which WOULD be a cool option btw
<Treenaks> hi abelli
<Treenaks> abelli: and bye ;)
<abelli> Treenaks: hey .. im supposed to give solutions ..
<abelli> that's a cool solution.
<siretart> abelli: I dont really understand the problem yet. Is this problem also in the debian packages?
<abelli> siretart: is there a package of pimki?
<abelli> i dont think so.
<abelli> well at least not in hoary
<abelli> but .. well .. id like gem to run on ubuntu
<siretart> I don't even see pimki in breezy. whats pimki?
<ogra> abelli, you should definately contact the debian devs that broke the packages apart, i know there is an argument going on between ruby upstream and the DDs
<abelli> wiki+note_taker_with_some_neuro_thinks_in_it
<abelli> ogra: i know it too :) i just wanted to let you go before me :)
<ogra> (debian did something similar with mono in the past, but they now repackaged it)
<siretart> I'm not quite sure, but http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=290705 seems to be relevant here
<ivoks> hi again
<siretart> wb ivoks
<abelli> siretart: it's seem so.
<abelli> well im off to univ .. have a great day everybody
<ivoks> i'm a bit confused
<siretart> abelli: have a nice day. cu
<ivoks> can't someone d/w my key from keyserver and sign it locally?
<Amaranth> ivoks: They don't know you're really you unless they meet you in person.
<ivoks> ah, true :)
<Amaranth> I've got the same problem.
<ogra> just look at biglumber
<ivoks> ogra: i did...
<ogra> nothing ?
<Amaranth> yeah, no one in sioux city
<ivoks> one guy :)
<ogra> great, mail him
<ivoks> well, i'm not worying :)
<Amaranth> i'd have to get someone to drive me 100mi away to omaha
<ivoks> admin of pgp keryserver in croatia will personaly sign mine :)
<ivoks> and there is jrodin...
<Amaranth> i talked to the sioux city LUG about it and they seemed to think key signing was silly
<ivoks> Amaranth: :(
<ivoks> bye
<tseng|work> ogra: GAR
<ogra> ?
<tseng|work> ogra: tcl stores integers as a C "int" type
<ogra> tha do you do with tcl ?
<ogra> waht even
<ogra> ergh
<tseng|work> not even unsigned
<tseng|work> just int
<tseng|work> i hope i dont need to start again and learn python
<Mithrandir> tseng|work: do yourself a favour; don't learn tcl.
<Mithrandir> tcl should die.
<tseng|work> Mithrandir: i wish, the other coders here work with expect and php
<tseng|work> those were my choices
<Mithrandir> assembly?
<tseng|work> now that im 95% done and tcl is overflowing integers
<Mithrandir> mono? perl? shell? C? Objective C?  Java?
<tseng|work> i can tell them why it needs to be python
<\sh> php? as meant in #!/usr/bin/php or as webapps language?
<tseng|work> \sh: the rest of the app is a php web app
<tseng|work> this is like the shell backend
<tseng|work> it does snmp polling and rrd data storage
<tseng|work> and mysql
<\sh> hmmm
<tseng|work> the tcl bindings for all that is nice enough
<\sh> tseng: what is it?
<tseng|work> just..
<tseng|work> i cant store the full snmp data
<tseng|work> \sh: it graphs network traffic
<tseng|work> with rrdtool
<tseng|work> but it has a custom interface and polls 1000s of interfaces
<\sh> i prefer cacti as full php solution http://www.cacti.net/
<tseng|work> no
<tseng|work> I tried that
<\sh> but to have something professional, i'm using the old lycos solution, rrdtool+some perl applications
<tseng|work> there is an existing solution it has to work like
<tseng|work> the cacti navigation blows majorly for a network this size
<ogra> Mithrandir, no python in your list ?
<Mithrandir> ogra: he already had python mentioned
<\sh> tseng: how large is the network?
<ogra> ah
<tseng|work> sh there are 848 hosts in the database
<tseng|work> we are polling 200 atm
<tseng|work> which comes to 8000+ interfaces
<\sh> hmmm...
<tseng|work> the single problem is the size of ifOutOctets/ifInOctets from the internet routers is larger than signed int
<\sh> so tcl is bugging u or php or mysql? ,-)
<tseng|work> all of it
<tseng|work> the stuff php/mysql is doing for the frontend is fine
<\sh> what? moment...if i'm right, boris released the lycos tool as gpl lic
<\sh> we had no mysql..only a bug emc storage ;)
<\sh> s/bug/big/
<tseng|work> hm i think my network guy is lying about the counter not rolling over
<tseng|work> my data is fine
<\sh> tseng|work: if you want to have some fun with a real sysadmin geek, try out https://sourceforge.net/projects/zerod/
<tseng|work> its only in cvs, the other annoyance here :P
<\sh> we tried during my lycos times to clean the code but I gave up
<\sh> it's working for services as well as on snmp pulls
* tseng|work waits for the counter to roll over and rub it in coworkers face
<Riddell> does breezy pbuilder work for anyone, it always gets stuck on g++ for me
<tseng|work> it worked for me as of a few days ago
<Riddell>  g++ depends on g++-4.0 (>= 4.0.0-7); however:
<Riddell>   Package g++-4.0 is not installed.
<Riddell> it's never worked for me
<ogra> Riddell, yeasterday it worked here...
<Riddell> it must just hate me
<\sh> hmmm..
<\sh> Riddell: trying to compile patched python-kde3 now...
* Riddell crosses fingers
<\sh> Riddell: hmm
<\sh> Riddell: python2.4-qt3-dev
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> i should recompile python2.4-qt3
<tseng|work> bbl
<\sh> and if elmo would include the keys ;) i could even upload those packages ;)
<siretart> :)
<\sh> hmmm..my laptop is even getting hotter
<DanielN> moin
<siretart> hi DanielN
<DanielN> hi siretart
<ivoks> did you have fun at UDU?
<ogra> ivoks, indeedc
<ogra> -c
<ogra> 12h working fun every day ;)
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> will there be more events like that?
<ivoks> somewhere near europe? :)
<siretart> ivoks: for hoary the meeting was in spain
<ogra> the last one was in barcelona
<ivoks> eh..
<ivoks> then next one will be in america or africa...
<ivoks> or even asia
<ivoks> uh...
<ivoks> ubuntu is great :)
<\sh> africa would be cool :)
<ivoks> yeah
<ivoks> omg
<ivoks> http://www.cafepress.com/ubuntushop.14580501
<Riddell> launchpad meeting was in south afraica
<ivoks> you can tell it's made in usa :)
<Riddell> I heard a rumour the next ubuntu meeting might be in Germany
<ivoks> yeah?!
<ivoks> that would be great
<ogra> bah
<\sh> I think it will be hold on mars
<\sh> the mars has the right ubuntu color ;)
<ivoks> speeking of color
<ivoks> i can't find any brown ubuntu t-shirts
<DanielN> is debian/compat important ?
<ivoks> well, yes
<ivoks> or maybe not... :)
<DanielN> ?!
<ivoks> DanielN: sprichst du deutsch?
<ivoks> DanielN: http://www.ngolde.de/cdbs.html#7
<\sh> hmm...ivoks surprises me more and more ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> DanielN: look at first sentence
<ivoks> Es ist wichtig :)
<ivoks> so, i guess it
<ivoks> it's important...
<ivoks> \sh: i kenne deutsch, aber sehr wenig... :(
<DanielN> ok .. then it is important ...
<DanielN> but it contains simply a '4' in my case
<ivoks> DanielN: it's allways 4 :)
<DanielN> mhm .. ok
<siretart> should be
<siretart> DanielN: read the manpage debhelper(7), espc. the chapter about versions
<siretart> DanielN: your comapt file tells the debhelper tools to use compatibility level 4
<DanielN> aha
<DanielN> ok .. thy
<DanielN> +x
<\sh> this is strange
<\sh> my pbuilder env tells me that python2.4-qt3 is run-dep to libqt3c102-mt*
<\sh> but my breezy chroot and pbuilder env on another machine is doing it right
<\sh> everything is up2date at all
<ivoks> are you sure?
<ivoks> chroot is
<ivoks> but i don't think that first one is...
<DanielN> mhm .. im "verwirrt" .. with dh_make -e bl@bla -f ../bla.tar.gz there would be a .orig.tar.gz in parent .. but i'm doing changes to the makefile, so i need a diffrent .orig.tar.gz .. one is built with "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" .. but it contains the revision too, not good. is this cause in changelog version name is with revision extension ?
<\sh> i'm not building in the chroot
<\sh> DanielN: u need to make patches
<\sh> so create a source dir with original source
<DanielN> src/ ?
<\sh> create another one with original.patched ;)
<ivoks> \sh: python2.4-qt3 depends on libqt3c102-mt
<\sh> ivoks: it's not there anymore in the sourcepackage...
<\sh> after the last update
<DanielN> \sh: mhm seems complicated to me with short explanation :)
<\sh> DanielN: the other thing u can do is using dpatch
<\sh> you go into the source dir (with the debian dir )
<DanielN> yeah
<ivoks> cd /put ; more beer
<\sh> and dpatch-edit-patch 01_<your patchname>
<ivoks> good one :)
<ivoks> cd /pub
<\sh> it creates a temp env for the source, u do your changes, ctrl+d and the patch is written
<DanielN> cool
<\sh> but better would be you do this
<\sh> tar -xvzf <orig>.tar.gz
<DanielN> the new one?
<DanielN> with revision?
<\sh> mv <origsource> <origsource>.patched
<\sh> tar -xvzf <orig>.tar.gz
<\sh> cd origsource.patched
<ivoks> diff :)
<\sh> make your patched
<\sh> -d+s
<\sh> cd ..
<\sh> diff -ur <origsource> <origsource>.patched
<\sh> u will see the diff
<\sh> diff -ur <origsource> <origsource>.patched > <yourpatch>.diff
<\sh> u have your normale /usr/bin/patch compatible diff file
<ivoks> -Nur ?
<\sh> -u == unified
<DanielN> ok
<DanielN> origsource is replaced with what?
<\sh> ok..slowley
<\sh> lets take an example
<\sh> yoursource-0.14
<\sh> the orig tar is
<\sh> yoursource-0.14.tar.gz
<\sh> ok..now
<DanielN> the one built with dh_make?
<ivoks> \sh: end user help didn't go well last time :)
<\sh> no the upstream source
<DanielN> the upstream one
<DanielN> ah.. ok
<\sh> now do this: mkdir patching ; cd patching ; tar -xvzf ../yoursource-0.14.tar.gz ; mv yoursource-0.14 yoursource-0.14.patched ; tar -xvzf ../yoursource-0.14.tar.gz
<\sh> cd yoursource-0.14.patched
<\sh> do your patching work
<\sh> after this u do:
<\sh> cd ..
<\sh> diff -ur yoursource-0.14 yoursource-0.14.patched > yoursource_name_of_diff.diff
<\sh> cd ..
<\sh> now go into the sourcedir with the debian dir
<\sh> mkdir -p debian/patches
<DanielN> -p?
<\sh> cp ../patching/yoursource_name_of_diff.diff debian/patches/
<thom> creates all the directories required
<\sh> -p == parent ;)
<DanielN> ok
<DanielN> and then i should rebuild it?
<\sh> and then adjust your rules file to have a patch: target and unpatch target
<\sh> there is an example i think in the debian new maintainers guide
<DanielN> ah... k
<DanielN> thats all?
<\sh> if you adjusted your rules file to apply patches etc.
<\sh> then you can rebuild it
<DanielN> ok
<DanielN> thanks very well! nice "workshop" :)
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> well it depends what you like more, dpatch magic or cdbs magic ;) for plain rules file i like dpatch and for cdbs there is this really nice simple-patchsys file, and this handles everything ;)
<DanielN> aha..
<ogra> \sh, please dont teach cdbs to newcomers
<ogra> its required to understand the basics first... you miss that if you directly start with cdbs
<\sh> ogra: hmmm...
<DanielN> seems "einleuchtend" ogra
<\sh> ogra: right....
<\sh> ogra: well, depends I think :) I used cdbs first, and studied the magic behind it :)
<jbailey> ogra: Ah, we haven't had the recurring cdbs argument in at least a week ;)
<ogra> yeah, you have to renew it once a week ;)
<\sh> there is really one point
<\sh> and I'm missing really a QA for debian/rules...you can say: ok, no lintian and linda warnings, but if you have a look at debians source packages sometimes, it's scaring me
<ivoks> \sh: agree
<ivoks> i'm new in this packaging thing
<ivoks> but there are rules that blows your mind...
<ivoks> on one place, guy created a patch which creates config.sub and config.guess
<ivoks> ok..
<ivoks> and then copys that same files from /usr/share/misc
<\sh> ivoks: this is not the problem..the problem was the "clean:" target where this happened
<ivoks> ?
* ogra thinks poker3d
<ogra> thats a really odd one, it calls ./configure in the clean target....
<\sh> hihih
<ivoks> :))
<ogra> so you have to have all build deps installed to make a simple source package, which is mental ill....
<\sh> ogra: but this is solvable
<ogra> and indeed 3d indicates a lot of GL build-deps
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> absolutely...
<ivoks> and that asks for X
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> sure
<ivoks> so you have 340MB of build-deps
<\sh> ogra: but what about thinks like rules for installing files for multiple bin packages
<ivoks> for 5MB source :)
<\sh> s/thinks/things/
<\sh> lets see if i can reproduce this bug
* ivoks is bored... I'm going to create a nice metacity theme :)
<ivoks> or... even better
<ivoks> rollerblading :)
<ivoks> bye :)
<\sh> ivoks: grab the source of python2.4-qt3
<\sh> and please check the debian/control
<DanielN> \sh back again short.. from which dir must i build the package at the end? in the *.patched ?
<\sh> no
<\sh> the .patched dir is only for working
<DanielN> ok
<\sh> u make the diff between an upstream source dir and .patched dir
<DanielN> yeah
<\sh> then cp the patch to debian/patches
<\sh> adjust rules
<ivoks> when you are over with chnages in .patched dir
<\sh> and build in sourcedir with debian/
<\sh> or better in pbuilder env
<ivoks> \sh: ok, i'm looking at control
<DanielN> so i mustn't change anything in the sourcedir with debian/ (the .diff manages that?)
<\sh> DanielN: u don't change anything in the sourcedir with debian
<DanielN> ok .. clear now ..
<DanielN> thanks :)
<Riddell> ogra: if you're modifying dput to not include debian sites by default could you also put in a check to make sure the distribution isn't still set to a debian one, cos that can be embaracing
<\sh> ivoks: please have a look for libqt3c102-mt
<Riddell> libqt3c102-mt doesn't exist any more in breezy
<ogra> Riddell, is that a part of dput ?
* ogra looks
<Riddell> ogra: no, but it should be
<ivoks> \sh: ok libqt3c102-mt-mysql|libqt3c102-mt-odbc|libqt3c102-mt-psql
<\sh> Riddell: yes :) but the new package of python-qt3 compiled by doko is depending on it
<\sh> ivoks: wrong line,..this is suggest
<\sh> i fixed it now
<\sh> no really: Depends: line
<ivoks> there is no
<Riddell> it's a part of the katie stuff
<ivoks> but
<\sh> Riddell: and I dont see where the dep is..it's not in the source
<\sh> katie stuff?
<ivoks> \sh: new package should depend on  libqt3-mt
<\sh> ivoks: yeah...
<ivoks> and it does
<ivoks> libqt3-mt-dev
<\sh> ivoks: i checked everything there is nothing in the source debian/control but occurs only in the binary
<ivoks> ok, could you rephrase this? :)
<Riddell> \sh: which package depends on the bad qt?
<\sh> Riddell: python2.4-qt3
<ivoks> \sh: ? it depends on right qt
<Riddell> \sh: it'll be brought in by shlibs
<\sh> Riddell: I recompiled the package
<\sh> with all c102 occurencies removed, correct suggests etc. I don't find any c102 lib anymore ;)
<\sh> strange thing, that it went through the buildd
<ivoks> ?!
<\sh> ivoks: apt-cache show python2.4-qt3
<ivoks> yeah, no c102 at all
<ivoks> except changelog and Replaces/Conflicts
<\sh> Replaces: python2.4-qt3c102
<\sh> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.2.1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.0-0pre6ubuntu4), libice6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0), libpng12-0 (>= 1.2.8rel), libqt3c102-mt (>= 3:3.3.3), libsm6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0), libstdc++5 (>= 1:3.3.4-1), libx11-6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0), libxext6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0), zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1), python2.4, python2.4-sip4-qt3 (>= 4.2), python2.4-sip4-qt3 (<< 4.3)
<\sh> this is the output
<ivoks> no way man
<ivoks> that's old source
<\sh> no
<Riddell> \sh: do you have libqt3c102-mt on your system?
<ivoks> ups..
<bddebian> Howdy
<\sh> Riddell: no qt in the chroot
<ivoks> i'm in wrong source :)
<\sh> Riddell: it's coming directly from archive.ubuntu.com in the pbuilder
<\sh> ivoks: the output was for the binary package
<ivoks> well, didn't build it...
<\sh> i updated my chroot and pbuilder now many times...no change
<ivoks> sorry...
<ivoks> all right, i have my PGP key signed
<ivoks> by a person that administrates one of PGP servers
<\sh> but if I compile python-qt3 by myself, the result is no run-dep on c102 anywhere
<ivoks> is that good enough? :)
<ogra> as long as you met him in person...
<ogra> and showed your id card....
<ivoks> ogra: he's my friend :)
<ogra> so ?
<ivoks> he saw my id card
<ogra> oki
<ivoks> when police busted us :)
<ogra> heh
<ivoks> does that count? :)
<\sh> Riddell: i rechecked on ravel (thx to Mithrandir again) and the same result for amd64
<ogra> yeah, you guys drive like crazy down there
<ivoks> ogra: true
<ogra> but the streets are tempting to do that ;)
<ivoks> nothing makes me more angry than woman on 3 line road driving 40km/h
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> lemme chekc the buildlogs
<ivoks> \sh: check rules :)
<ivoks> funny stuff can be found there :)
<\sh> no wonder
<ivoks> \sh: what? :)
<\sh> i386 failed
<\sh> argl
<ivoks> so... off i go
<DanielN> \sh: hmm.. i can't find anything about the "patched" rule file in the maintainer guide :(
<Riddell> \sh: ravel?
<\sh> Riddell: amd64 machine
<\sh> DanielN: ok...please have a look in the source of arkrpg
<\sh> apt-get source arkrpg
<\sh> there is a patch and unpatch target for debian/rules
<\sh> do it like in this debian/rules file
<Riddell> \sh: I'll upload a new python2.4-qt3 then with the Suggests fixed to not be c102 and hopefully it'll link against the right one this time
<DanielN> ok thanks
<\sh> Riddell: well, i would but u forget the fact, that siretat and i are not able right now to upload (elmos workplace ;))
<\sh> Riddell: u need a diff?
<Riddell> \sh: diff would be nice
<\sh> Riddell: mail or should I dcc?
<Riddell> I prefer web
<Riddell> else e-mail
<\sh> oh ok :)
<\sh>  no problem :)
<DanielN> \sh: you mean this part? :
<DanielN> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<DanielN> # Including this file gets us a simple patch system.  You can just
<DanielN> # drop patches in debian/patches, and they will be automatically
<DanielN> # applied and unapplied.
<DanielN> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk
<DanielN> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk
<\sh> DanielN: this is cdbs
<DanielN> yeah
<\sh> i mean a plain rule ,)
<DanielN> but i don't see this plain rule
<DanielN> maybe i'm blind or something ;)
<\sh> ah wrong packages..I'm a bit confused
<\sh> moemnt
<DanielN> thought that ;)
<\sh> aspseek is the right one ;) those packages r right now in my trans queue ;)
<DanielN> ok i try this one ;>
<\sh> Riddell: http://ubuntu.linux-server.org/index.php?path=python-qt3
<\sh> debdiff output
<Riddell> compiling pyqt, just to make sure
<\sh> python2.4-sip4-qt3?
<Riddell> whichever one you gave me the patch for :)
<\sh> python-qt3 ;)
<Riddell> what's the difference?
<\sh> ok... this naming is really b0rked ;)
<\sh> Riddell: hehe...sip4 is the basement of python-qt3
<\sh> it gives te possibilty to create c++-python bindings at all
<\sh> that's why I'm always confused with python2.4-sip4-qt3
<Riddell> the description on python2.4-sip4-qt3 needs updating "Python2.3+Qt3 runtime"
<\sh> Riddell: we should rename it...
<\sh> because the implicit description is wrong
<Riddell> that would mean getting out of sync with debian a bit too much I suspect
<Riddell> python-qt3_3.14.1-2ubuntu2.dsc uploaded
<\sh> Riddell: then debian has to move with us ;)
<Riddell> Maintainer: Ricardo Javier Cardenes Medina, guys got a cool name whoever he is
<\sh> well...if I make my pykde patches and some DD will take it for pykde in debian, we will be out of sync with upstream ;)
<Riddell> python-qt3_3.14.1-2ubuntu2_source.changes ACCEPTED
<\sh> but at least there is a real running pykde implementation
<Riddell> that's always a good sign
<Riddell> \sh: what's the status of pykde in debian?
<\sh> Riddell: same as ours now...upstream 3.11.3
<\sh> is official upstream
<\sh> kdebindings has 3.11.4
<\sh> ad
<\sh> and I'm working with 20050316 snapshot
<\sh> and this I will upload to breezy with some patches
<\sh> upstream is informed, he's not updating his source
<Riddell> strange that
<\sh> Riddell: i will document the changes in README.debian ;) or README.ubuntu
<\sh> Riddell: and we are far ahead of upstream
<\sh> and u can try to get this package into upstream kde svn ;)
<\sh> or at least the patches
<Riddell> good idea
<ajmitch> morning
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<ogra> hey ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ogra> ajmitch, would you mind making up with herve who takes the lead for MOTUPython ? there are some people interested in jioning the team... but they asked why the site is this empty... it would be nice to have at least a leader
<ajmitch> sure
<\sh> apropos team ;)
<\sh> Riddell: do u mind, when I'm putting my name on MOTUKDE?
<Riddell> \sh: please do
<Amaranth> MOTUPython? what do they do? :)
<ogra> Amaranth, ask the teamleader (if we have one) ;)
<ogra> \sh, nope, forbidden
<ogra> \sh, put it on MOTUGNOME
* Riddell gags ogra and throws him to the dragons
<\sh> hahaha
<DanielN> \sh: i've uploaded it now with patch .. so u can take a look at opportunity
<\sh> DanielN: "when" ?
<DanielN> yes
<\sh> just now
<ogra> lol
<\sh> ogra: what with "lol" ;) u can review as well ;)
<\sh> *lol*
<ogra> \sh, i have other tasks assigned currently...
<\sh> ogra: /me too...i need to clean my flat...but I'm waiting until it's a bit cooler
<ogra> \sh, no, i mean distro wise...
<\sh> hmmm
* ogra looks at the havoc around him... that some call a flat
<\sh> kdebase-dev depends on konqueror 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu21
<\sh> is not going to be installed
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> Riddell: ping check buildlogs for python-qt3
<\sh> python2.3/python2.4-dev missing ;)
<\sh> libqt3-mt-dev missing
<Riddell> "libqscintilla-dev: Depends: libqscintilla5c2 (= 1.5.1-1ubuntu1) but it is not installable"
<\sh> hmmm....
<\sh> doko uploaded them...
<Riddell> libqscintilla-dev installs for me
<\sh> its not in main
<\sh> see u-toolchain
<\sh> [21:16]  <Kamion> \sh: no, libqscintilla5c2 isn't in main
<\sh> [21:17]  <Kamion> which is because python-qt3 and libqscintilla-dev are scheduled for demotion to universe
<\sh> [21:17]  <Kamion> (nothing in main uses them at the moment)
<Riddell> ah
<Riddell> where did that conversation take place?
<\sh> #ubuntu-toolchain
<\sh> and the buildlog says it took the 2ubuntu2 version of python-qt3
<Riddell> so we have to wait for universe demotion, bit of a pain
<\sh> how long will it take?
<\sh> ah elmo ;)
<\sh> ok..will do something else..cleaning my flat
<jbailey> chillywilly: Dan!
<chillywilly> Jeff!
<jbailey> ajmitch: Look what the cat dragged in... ;)
<bddebian> chillywilly: WTF are you doing here?? :-)
<chillywilly> I love Ubuntu?
<chillywilly> :)
<bddebian> Heh
<\sh> dinner time....
<jbailey> ogra: ping?
<ogra> jbailey, pong
<jbailey> ogra: Got a sec for an introduction?
<ogra> sur
<ogra> e
<jbailey> ogra: chillywilly is someone I've known for a small eon.  A lunatic^Wbright lad I met through Hurd work.
<jbailey> ogra: He expressed interest in motuship.
<ogra> to build a hurd derivative ? :-P
<jbailey> ogra: He's done python and c++ work with gnu enterprise.
<ogra> great
<ogra> hi chillywilly
<ogra> :)
<Mithrandir> jbailey: gnu enterprise as in gnue?  The big scary BPR-ishy thing?
<jbailey> Mithrandir: Right, that's the one. =)
<bddebian> BPR?
<Mithrandir> business process reengineering.  Stuff like peoplesoft and SAP do.
<ogra> chillywilly to become a MOTU you'll first have to become a member....
<ogra> becoming a member starts with creating a wikipage for yourself
* jamessan should pay attention to this
<ogra> here is a example of a perfect one:
<ogra> wiki.ubuntu.com/DanielRobitaille
<bddebian> Mithrandir: No those are examples of ERP systems :-)
<ogra> yours doesnt need to be this good, but you see scheme
<Mithrandir> bddebian: blah, you're right.  I think gnue is that too.
<bddebian> ;-)
<Mithrandir> bddebian: as I said, big scary thing. :-)
<ogra> next step to membership is to make a contribution of any kind
<bddebian> Mithrandir: Nothing is scarier than SAP, that is true.. :-)
<ogra> this could be a: howto wikipage, desktop background, a patch or anything else valuable for ubuntu you can imagine
<ogra> you can even fix bugs ;)
<ogra> after you made one or the other contribution, you put yourself on the CommunityCouncilAgenda
* bddebian will do Ubuntu MOTU stuff when work slows down.. :-(
<ogra> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<ogra> and attend the meeting....
<ogra> the CC will approve you as a member then
<ogra> thats step one....
<ogra> step two is to help with packaging ....
<ogra> you fix pakages for a transition or fix packages that have bugs in universe... find a MOTU to review your work and if its fine your stuff gets uploaded...
<ogra> do that with some packages....
<ogra> after that you set yourself on the TechnicalBoardAgenda
<ogra> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<ogra> attend the meeting and the TB will ask MOTU for a judgement of your packaging skills... if MOTU says its ok, you get approved as MOTU and gain upload rights....
<ogra> oh, and i forgot, you need a valid signed gpg key
<bddebian> Sheesh, sounds like work.. :-)
<ogra> (after CC approval you'll need to sign our code of conduct and send it to mako)
<ogra> thats all
<ogra> :=)
<tseng|work> hi ogrea
<tseng|work> ogra
<kas11> sheesh...looking at that wiki page sure makes me feel inadequate ;)
<ogra> if you are fast, you can make it in 4 weeks...
<ogra> tseng|work, did i forget something ?
<tseng|work> i dont think so
<Mithrandir> the key should preferably be signed by another ubuntu or debian developer, but the only must requirement is "is in the strong set"
<ogra> ah, and here is the CoC btw: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct
<ogra> we all are bound to it :)
<ogra> other info is on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<bddebian> Ahh, now I see why jbailey is here.  He loves being bound and gagged...
* bddebian hides
<ogra> hehe
<tseng|work> he's from canada
<tseng|work> they are into that stuff
<bddebian> Aye :)
<ogra> bondage ?
<Nafallo> ey! you people start my porno-highlights :-P
<ogra> hehe
<bddebian> heh
<chillywilly> thanks ogra, sounds like a lot of work ;)
<jbailey> I walk away from the computer for *5* minutes, and the channel suddenly get good.. *sheesh*
<tseng|work> ok guys back to work.
<ogra> a probably intresting difference between ubuntu and debian is that we have no personalized packages, most of the stuff we do is teamwork even if some people have their favorites...(like tseng does mono, but ajmitch and myself tinker in this packages too)
<chillywilly> don't ever walk away again, just stay by your computer night and day...when you start to stink the wife will let you know
<chillywilly> ajmitch is also my buddy
<ogra> she'll certainly bring a bucket of water ;)
<dholbach> hellas
<ogra> dholbach, meet chillywilly, our newest MOTU hopeful :)
<dholbach> hey chillywilly, how's it going? :)
<bddebian> hellas?
<ogra> chillywilly, dholbach and me kind of lead the MOTU world :)
<chillywilly> fine, thanks
<bddebian> Hello dholbach
<dholbach> chillywilly: so the guys were all nice to you? :)
<tseng|work> eh its sort of personalized
<dholbach> bddebian: that's what the greek say for "hello!" :)
<chillywilly> yea
<tseng|work> if someone wants to play with mono they better ask me
<ogra> tseng|work, two are a team ;)
<tseng|work> or be named ogra or ajmitch
<bddebian> dholbach: Ah
<dholbach> chillywilly: if you have any complaints, just tell me... ;)
<bddebian> chillywilly: Oh and they aren't pricks like many of the d-d's
* dholbach is kidding
* bddebian hides
<tseng|work> heh yep
<tseng|work> im heading home
<tseng|work> see you later
* Mithrandir throws bddebian into a well
<ogra> bye
<dholbach> see you tseng
<bddebian> Bye tseng
<bddebian> Mithrandir: What was that for?
<chillywilly> ajmitch: what about pnet, you are cheating on her with mono? shame on you ;)
<Mithrandir> bddebian: I'm a DD and therefore a prick. :P
<Mithrandir> ;-P
<bddebian> Mithrandir: I didn't say ALL DD's :-)
<chillywilly> um, ok
<chillywilly> I really need to sleep for a few years...
<Mithrandir> chillywilly: you should just learn packaging and then you can do that instead of sleeping.
<ogra> yeah
<dholbach> yeah... it's as relaxing...
<bddebian> heh
<chillywilly> sure
<dholbach> ROCK!
* ogra wanders back into ltsp stuff....
* dholbach points at chillywilly: watch that attitude!
<kas11> sleep is a primary sign of poor work habits ;)
<chillywilly> great, I am being called a slacker already ;)
<bddebian> chillywilly: Damn, they must know you already.. ;-P
<chillywilly> haha
<Mithrandir> chillywilly: we're just trying to guide your steps.
<MarioOs> hello
<dholbach> hey MarioOs
<dholbach> hey ivoks
<MarioOs> hello ivoks
<ivoks> hi dholbach MarioOs
<MarioOs> is there anyone here who is interested in programming some apps
<ivoks> :)
<MarioOs> just you laugh
<dholbach> nobody's laughing
<dholbach> what are you planning todo?
<ivoks> i'm tierd
<MarioOs> no, I was talking to ivoks
<MarioOs> Currently, I have in plan to create a Ubuntu central configuration utilitz
<MarioOs> utility
<chillywilly> ivoks: I am tired too
<chillywilly> need a nap
<MarioOs> then sleep
<chillywilly> can't I am work :)
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> i went rollerblading
<HWolf> MarioOs, you'll never get that in
<MarioOs> why not
<HWolf> afaik, ubuntu and gnome still stick to the filosophy of lots of specialised littel tools that are good at what they do.
<HWolf> I've seen it mentioned that for instance a control panel like clustering of config utilities would be shot down.
<chillywilly> I thought gconf was a centralized configuration tool
<dholbach> MarioOs: configuration like what?
<MarioOs> unique thingy
<HWolf> for as far as you can call anything centralized in linux, perhaps
<dholbach> what do you want configure with that GUI? i'm curious, i have no idea
<MarioOs> complete system
<ivoks> he has big ambitions :)
<MarioOs> install, uninstall package, modem, adsl, everything
<MarioOs> just you laugh, ivoks
<\sh> MarioOs: u mean u want to develop a tool, which is a config frontend (gnome/kde/motif) to _all_ apps, service daemons, kernel bla ?
<dholbach> ahhh
<dholbach> that's an ambitious project
<MarioOs> sure
<MarioOs> but why not do it
<MarioOs> it would be a great thing
<\sh> something like webmin (+apps)?
<MarioOs> nop
<MarioOs> it would be a modular configuration utility
<ivoks> webmin is modular
<dholbach> like gnome-system-tools?
<MarioOs> that is- it would have a central gui loading all the configuration modules that there is
<\sh> kcontrol?
<MarioOs> ok, this will be better
<MarioOs> nop
<MarioOs> that is bad
<ogra> like drak conf
<chillywilly> what's the thing that novell/miguel was developing called?
<MarioOs> yast
<chillywilly> gnome-system-tools
<ogra> ARGH
<\sh> rotfl
<ivoks> yast?!
<chillywilly> nevermind, someone already said it
<\sh> novell == suse == yast *rotflbtc*
<\sh> novell == ximian == redcarpet
<\sh> the same
<chillywilly> whoever it is
<ivoks> i hate suse, just because of yast :)
<chillywilly> I was thinking of gnome-system-tools
<chillywilly> anywho, my brain is a little frazzled
<MarioOs> I hate suse because keyboard isnt working
<\sh> well, redhat tried it, they failed
<ogra> chillywilly, we already have gnome-system-tools in the default install
<chillywilly> I know
<\sh> mandriva tried it, they failed
<ogra> \sh, redcarpet is only SW management... afaik
<dholbach> MarioOs: then don't upgrade to breezy atm - the keyboard is broken as well ;)
<\sh> ogra: sure .)
<\sh> :)
<chillywilly> so, what's wrong with gnome-system-tools MarioOs ?
<chillywilly> :P
<HWolf> It's an inconsistent mess, if you ask me
<dholbach> it could maybe be extended, re-worked, fixed
* HWolf gets blunt when he's tired
<chillywilly> sounds like it won't work
<dholbach> you get a blunt when you're tired, HWolf?
<chillywilly> I don't like big monster apps either
<\sh> it's impossible
* HWolf grins at dholbach
<chillywilly> maintenance nightmare
<MarioOs> nothings impossible
<dholbach> HWolf: that must make you even more sleepy ;)
<\sh> how can u cover 100 or more system wide services in a modular or monolithic app?
<ivoks> i have centralized config system!
<chillywilly> debconf? ;)
<ivoks> zsh, /etc, vim, cat and perl
<ivoks> :)
<HWolf> I've been using gnome full-time since september, and I still feel it's a scraped-together mess building something very good out of a mess.
<\sh> every service needs at least one module with specialized config settings, in his own config language
<ivoks> it's called ZEVICaP
<chillywilly> everyhting should just use LDAP ;)
<chillywilly> everything too
<\sh> chillywilly: put xmlconfigs into ldap ;)
<ivoks> chillywilly: have you used LDAP?
<MarioOs> how you ask....every service will develop its own module when they see its a good utility...we just need to do the simple ordinary stuff...install, unistall, etc.
<ivoks> that thing has tendency to crash sometimes
<\sh> MarioOs: why should they do it? to have a additional point of exploit?
<chillywilly> ivoks: yeppers
<ajmitch> oh, chillywilly is here
<chillywilly> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello
<chillywilly> I am stalking you ;)
<chillywilly> j
<chillywilly> j/k
<MarioOs> why do you think there will be another exploit
<ivoks> uh
<\sh> MarioOs: every additional module is a piece of software which can fail
<MarioOs> yup
<\sh> MarioOs: u need at least one coder to have this module in place
<ivoks> MarioOs: cause people are people
<ivoks> they make mistakes
<MarioOs> yes, yes, I know
<ajmitch> chillywilly: come to join the MOTUs?
<dholbach> hey schweeb_1 :)
<\sh> MarioOs: so, for what good reason a company like "sendmail inc." should provide a tool fuer a global ubuntu linux config system, if noone else is using it?
<ivoks> MarioOs: my advice: don't do that... use your energy to something else
<MarioOs> what should i do
<ivoks> a/to/for
<MarioOs> currently I am fixing a thunderbird bug
<ivoks> MarioOs: C++ transition needs help :)
<MarioOs> dont really like c++, I like C more
<chillywilly> ajmitch: yea
<ajmitch> chillywilly: good, get to work ;)
<chillywilly> ajmitch: trying to be useful
<chillywilly> I need a hobby ;)
<\sh> MarioOs: compile is comile, bugzilla is bugzilla, debdiff is debdiff...no problem between c/c++
<ajmitch> isn't that why you're married? :)
<\sh> ajmitch: lol
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> dholbach: how do you feel these days? powerfull? :)
<MarioOs> sh....I know theres no problem
<ajmitch> ivoks: of course, he has the power!
<ivoks> he's the man!
<ivoks> he has power!
<ivoks> he's he-man!
<dholbach> ivoks: erm... it's a different story, when i face my thesis ;)
<MarioOs> oh not, just dont do that ivoks
<MarioOs> LOLOL
<ajmitch> dholbach: you'll be glad to be finished your thesis
<ivoks> dholbach: work on it!
<MarioOs> ok, are you interested in working in anything else then
<tseng> hi
<ajmitch> chillywilly: got a spare box to run breezy on?
<dholbach> yes... absolutely
<ajmitch> hello tseng
<ivoks> MarioOs: as we said, C++ transition needs help :/
<chillywilly> ajmitch: I am actually brave/silly/stupid and running it here and at home
<chillywilly> :-o
<MarioOs> I understand ivoks
<ajmitch> chillywilly: yes, you are :)
* ivoks cheers for dholbach to become dr_dholbach
<\sh> I could need some help to organize the The German Ubuntu Breezy Badger Release Party
<dholbach> haha.... not yet, ivoks :)
<ivoks> ah, wait... in EU it's different name for that...
<ivoks> phD
<dholbach> ivoks: it will be a diploma, no dr.
<ivoks> only diploma? come on... you can do that with one eye, and 3 fingers
<\sh> ivoks: dholbach needs to defend himself first, in front of the profs, then he gets his diploma :)
<ivoks> \sh: i know :) same thing in croatia
<ivoks> pice of cake
<\sh> everywhere ;)
<\sh> at least I was happy to break up with my studies
<dholbach> ivoks: shall that make me feel encouraged? :)
<ivoks> dholbach: think positive :)
<dholbach> i do :)
<ivoks> ogra: what else do i have to do so my PGP becomes valid?
<ogra> upload it
<ivoks> ogra: if you want, i can get it signed by XMMS, gentoo, etc... debian maintainer :)
* ajmitch still has to do a bit of keysigning from UDU
<ajmitch> ivoks: that would be good - any DD is a good person to sign
<ivoks> ogra: it is uploaded
<ogra> ivoks, one key from the strong connected set is enough
* dholbach is in the top 1000 now *wohoo* ;)))
<ivoks> ogra: well... check this out: http://pks.aaiedu.hr:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x6D3BAED1EA160D0B
<ajmitch> dholbach: well done :)
<dholbach> ivoks: is this *yours*?
<ivoks> dholbach: no, that guy signed mine
<ivoks> http://pks.aaiedu.hr:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x6C1277A9D3BDA225 - this is mine
<dholbach> hm, you're not on here: http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/stats/D3BDA225.html
<ivoks> well, i can't be everywhere :)
<dholbach> yes :)
<ivoks> http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0xD3BDA225
<ogra> when did you upload it ?
<ivoks> key? about month ago...
<MarioOs> ok
<MarioOs> good night
<ivoks> and it was signed today
<ivoks> MarioOs: night
<dholbach> ah ok... maybe that's why
<dholbach> cs.uu.nl always takes some days
<ivoks> could be..
<ogra> yep
<\sh> ah
<\sh> wine
<\sh> wine from ZA
<\sh> western cape area
<\sh> Shiraz
<\sh> mjum
<ajmitch> heh
<dholbach> hmmm, shiraz
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-03
<dholbach> ok... i leave you guys again... have a nice day
<Nafallo> night all!
<ogra> night dholbach
<\sh> cu dholbach :)
<ogra> nigh Nafallo
<\sh> have a good night :)
<dholbach> bye
<ivoks> bye
<ivoks> well.. i'm going too
<ivoks> bye all
<\sh> g'night ivoks
<\sh> good night folks :) cu tomorrow
<tseng> hi
<tritium> hi tseng
<tseng> any MOTUs here for NEW package review?
<crimsun> sure, ~20 mins
<tseng> hm ok
<tseng> let me upload this
<tseng> http://tseng.ath.cx/mono/boo/
<tseng> thanks.
* ajmitch is reviewing too
<tseng> rock on!
<tseng> ajmitch: dude
<ajmitch> gar
<tseng> ajmitch: http://tseng.ath.cx/images/bootest.png
<ajmitch> :1:> dpkg-source -x *dsc
<ajmitch> dpkg-source: error: file boo_0.5.4.1629-0ubuntu1.diff.gz has size 1377 instead of expected 1348
<tseng> hm?
<tseng> ill upload again
<ajmitch> or rebuild the source package again
<tseng> yep
<ajmitch> nice demo
<tseng> try that
<tseng> yeah i am going to build a monodevelop-boo when we are done
<tseng> and meebey checks off on it
<ajmitch> nasty proxies
<ajmitch> where's the rest of the description?
<ajmitch> in debian/control
<tseng> im not sure what to do about the rest
<tseng> thats the blurb on the website
<ajmitch> upstream is crack, if they're distributing binaries, not source
<tseng> well
<tseng> binaries are autotooled
<tseng> source is NANT
<ajmitch> evil
<tseng> and since the binary is the same for everyone, that is what other people are shipping
<tseng> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/BOO/Packaging+Boo
<ajmitch> I don't like it, but it might have to do
<tseng> yeah
<ajmitch> plenty of lintian warnings
<tseng> oh i forgot to run that
<ajmitch> missing manpages, complaints about the description, etc
<ajmitch> it even complains about NEWS & README being 0 bytes
<tseng> elmo: boo: unknown-control-file clilibs
<ajmitch> that's usual
<tseng> Bah irssi autocomplete you suck
<tseng> elmo: disregard autocomplete crack
<ajmitch> ok, not really much else I can check at the moment
* ajmitch will bbl
<tseng> yeah ill fix those
<tseng> grr manpages
<tseng> oh i need to chmod 644 those
<tseng> dll's
<wasabi> Question about multiverse. I have a package, I'd like to upgrade it. It is free, but doesn't build from source YET.
<wasabi> Not for ubuntu, right?
<wasabi> s/upgrade/upload/
<Burgundavia> what package?
<crimsun> why would it be in multiverse if it's free?
<wasabi> eclipse.
<wasabi> Because it's java.
<crimsun> afaik eclipse isn't really free, but I could be wrong
<crimsun> (I really should know this)
<wasabi> multiverse is not equiv to non-free is it.
* crimsun checks
<wasabi> eclipse is free.
<Burgundavia> what licence does it use?
<crimsun> the license is the important part
<Burgundavia> is it DFSG free?
<wasabi> Yesa.
<wasabi> Yes.
<wasabi> Hey, ew don't need to go thru this part. I got this part handled. ;)
<wasabi> The question is about packages without source deps.
<wasabi> Debian contrib style.
<wasabi> That != multiverse, right?
<Burgundavia> contrib is universe, unless I am talking out my ass again
<Burgundavia> non-free = multiverse
<crimsun> contrib is universe.
<wasabi> Uh.
<crimsun> correct.
<wasabi> I'd disagree.
<Burgundavia> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/eclipse-platform
<Burgundavia> contrib
<wasabi> contrib in debian doesn't require dependencies to exist.
<wasabi> At all.
<wasabi> So stuff that depends on non-free stuff ends up there.
<wasabi> For instance, things that only compile with SUn's VM.
<crimsun> afaik EPLed Eclipse could possibly go into universe if it runs with gjc
<crimsun> gcj
<wasabi> It doesn't.
<wasabi> Hence why I'm here.
<wasabi> (yet)
<crimsun> welp, you answered your own question
<Burgundavia> RH is doing work with GCJ and eclipse, no?
<wasabi> Did I?
<wasabi> How so?
<wasabi> I don't think I dod.
<wasabi> Burgundavia, they are not compiling it's dependencies.
<crimsun> your question regarding non-free, not multiverse in particular
<Burgundavia> I really don't understand java, other than it is a licencing mess
<wasabi> It depends on Tomcat5 (in progress) and lucene.
<crimsun> what was your question regarding multiverse?
<wasabi> multiverse != contrib?
<crimsun> multiverse having things that depend on non-free
<crimsun> (or being non-free, etc.)
<wasabi> Things that Do Not Exist At All, more specifically.
<crimsun> so you had a question... :)
<wasabi> Yeah and it's not been answered.
<wasabi> =/
<crimsun> hmm, trying to see your question
<crimsun> are you asking whether ubuntu multiverse can have it?
<wasabi> Yes!
<crimsun> does it b-d on a non-free java compiler?
<wasabi> Is multiverse like contrib, can multiverse take binary uploads with unresolvable dependencies, like contrib.
<wasabi> Yes. It does.
<wasabi> A non-free compiler that will have no presense in Ubuntu at all.
<crimsun> I think TB members are in a better position to answer that question, but my gut says it can exist in multiverse.
<crimsun> like eagle.
<crimsun> (http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/e/eagle/4.11-8ubuntu1/eagle_4.11-8ubuntu1_20050417-2241-i386-successful.bz2)
<jsgotangco> wow i didnt know eagle was a pcb layout software
<crimsun> eagle contains a binary, so all the build does it wrap it in a deb.
<crimsun> does is^
* jsgotangco used to work in pcb design
<crimsun> cool :)
<jsgotangco> yeah i used to work for this company called pycon.com even before we had the PyCon python thing hehe
<crimsun> nice.
<Amaranth> does anyone know how i can get the sqlite pkg-config file?
<crimsun> should be in libsqlite3-dev
<Amaranth> *facepalm*
<Amaranth> libsqlite0-dev, actually
<crimsun> ah, 2.8?
<crimsun> I presumed you were referring to 3.0
<Amaranth> well, libsqllite3-dev installs sqlite3.pc
<Amaranth> oh, i forgot to add a .pc
<ivoks> morning
<\sh> morning
<siretart> morning, and hi \sh :)
<\sh> *yawn*
<ivoks> ok, it's time to make a real ubuntu server distribution :)
<Amaranth> good luck :)
<ivoks> with cfengine2, ldap and open mosix
<ivoks> this sucks... i have 60 computer NFS mounting root
<ivoks> configuration for every maching is over 100MB
<siretart> whats wrong with cfengine2 in hoary or breezy?
<ivoks> siretart: nothing
<siretart> ok. :)
<ivoks> they are fine
<ivoks> but they need to be included while server installation starts
<ivoks> not as packages, but as configuration
<siretart> how do you get the cfengine keys at installation time on the computer?
<ivoks> siretart: same way you get SSH keys ;) after reboot
<siretart> ah, that means that you always recreate them after installation, yes? how do they get then on the config server?
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> you have one server
<ivoks> and 60 clients
<ivoks> every client has it's own keys, as server does
<siretart> perhaps we have too diffrent setups to compare. I have a setup here with less clients (6 ;)) - but they all have their own harddrive and boot on their own
<ivoks> siretart: that's i'm going to do too
<ivoks> i'm sick of this NFS root
<ivoks> imagine 60 computers mounting everything from single server
<ivoks> they run like crap
<ivoks> so i will make them mount only /home over NFS
<ivoks> i'll setup LDAP for users and machines
<siretart> ah. then you'll see the problem soon. The server has a list of 'trusted' keys. Either you find some way to preserve the cfengine keys, or some way is needed that the new created keys are accepted on the config host (as far as I understood it)
<ivoks> and with cfengine they'll do upgrades/changes
<ivoks> siretart: that's not problem
<siretart> no?
<ivoks> every client will create it's own key which will be transfered to server
<\sh> I would like to see something like the sun solaris enterprise extensions
<ivoks> it's dumb work, but...
<siretart> ivoks: you mean, manually?
<ivoks> siretart: scp :)
<siretart> oh :(
<ivoks> well, any better ideas?
<ivoks> i won't do all 60 in one day :)
<siretart> this wasn't an option for us.
<ivoks> why?
<\sh> ivoks: check this out: http://catalog.sun.com/productinfo.xml?site=DE_GER&catalogue=FC&segment=FC_R&item=FC_SC_CAT&group=2005&fid=5087&id=12477
<siretart> because we are not always available. the local guy running the cafe has absolutly no knowlegde about adminning, but must be able to reinstall the machine
<ivoks> ah :))
<ivoks> why reinstall?
<siretart> so we really  need a really fully automated installation
<ivoks> \sh: ?
<ivoks> siretart: kickstart?
<ivoks> siretart: kickstart has option of running scripts after installation
<\sh> ivoks: those clients can share hardware between other clients, with the server software installed
<\sh> usb over ethernet
<siretart> reinstall is discouraged, yes. but it's needed from time to time, perheps because he messes up the partitions with a windoze installation, or because hard drive failure or so
<ivoks> so, you can put key on CD and just copy it
<ivoks> \sh: hardware isn't the problem... i have spare monitors and stuff :)
<\sh> u have smartcard handling, where u have your session, and if u need to go to another location, u take your smartcard and plug it into another machine, u will start where u stopped
<siretart> ivoks: we switched from FAI to d-i preseed. both offer this, and with this hook we are bootstrapping cfengine in fact
<\sh> ivoks: no...these r special thin clients
<\sh> ivoks: http://catalog.sun.com/productinfo.xml?site=DE_GER&catalogue=FC&segment=FC_R&item=FC_SC_CAT&group=2005&fid=5087&id=12516
<\sh> as I read, the server software is also available for linux
<ivoks> german :)
<siretart> \sh: ah, these sun rays are fine. at university run the sunray software on debian/i386
<\sh> exchange DE_GER
<siretart> +our local admins
<\sh> siretart: when I saw this system first, there was only a solaris solution
<siretart> \sh: the linux version is not really released final. there are some beta versions for red hat available
<\sh> siretart: but it was nice...even with a blade integrated, I used this citrix solution and accessed the blade PCI x86 card while I was sitting on the toilet with a sun laptop  and my session SC installed
<siretart> wait, I'll search the link
<siretart> \sh: http://wwwcip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~simigern/sunray-debian/
<\sh> siretart: they have it on their webpage as official announcement :)
<\sh> ah :)
* \sh wants to have this 
<ivoks> i still don't get this :)
<ivoks> you can have more clients like this and move from one to another?
<\sh> the hardware doesn't count anymore ;)
<\sh> u have your account on the server, like a normal x-client
<ivoks> ok
<siretart> ivoks: sunrays are a thin client solution, with the goodie, that you can take your session with you. just plug your card in another sunray and voila, your old session is restored
<ivoks> doh..
<ivoks> i have that with this kind of setup :)
<ivoks> and will have with the setup i'm going to do
<\sh> but your session data is saved on a smartcard and if you unplug your SC the session on a terminal is closed, and u can use the smartcard on another terminal and startover with your work, with the same session
<siretart> \sh: do you have a source for cheap sunrays? ;)
<ivoks> it just mounts that smartcard as home
<siretart> because I find them rather expensive..
<\sh> and the other goodie is, at least with the solaris version, you can plugin a usb dvd writer and the server handles the usb device as a local device, and you can create dvds
<ivoks> and i hate sun :)
<\sh> siretart: my first company is sun partner, i can ask what they want for sun rays...
<\sh> 950
<siretart> \sh: just curious, I'm not really that interested spending a lot of money just for private use ;)
<ivoks> lol
<siretart> 950 EUROS?
<\sh> for one bae-400-0 official price
<ivoks> 1000E?
<\sh> sun ray 170 with screen
<\sh> this is the price from sun ;)
<siretart> ah. hm
<ivoks> i don't know about you, but...
<ivoks> this is too much
<\sh> siretart: and the screen less sun ray 1g is only 320
<\sh> ivoks: this is nothing :) compared with a good workstation ;)
<\sh> siretart: official sun price ;)
<siretart> \sh: at university, we only have this screenless versions: sun ray 1 and a few 1g's
<siretart> \sh: I've seen some sun ray 1 on ebay for about 50 bucks..
<\sh> siretart: yeah, normally u have spare screens
<\sh> but look here, official price: sun ray 1g with 24" tft 2450
<\sh> or with a 19" 950 , just like the sun ray with 17" screen
<ivoks> well, they say sun java desktop works on it
<\sh> hahaha..sun u r stupid
<ivoks> so... linux works on it :)
<siretart> or over here: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=22462&item=5774483934&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
<\sh> ivoks: there is no OS running on the clients...the server runs all :)
<siretart> ivoks: well, the sunray itself has its firmware, an I think its an small ppc
<\sh> xterminal system it is
<ivoks> \sh: there has to be something, it can't run alone
<siretart> ivoks: it depends on the sunray server software. It seems that that software runs better on solaris, but at university here, they switched from the old SunFire 290 to Opterons running debian/i386
<\sh> but the cute stuff is the smartcard handling...:) the sun laptops with SC tray+wifi == sit on the toilet, think and code ;) u have peace on earth *gg*
<siretart> lol
<\sh> ivoks: just like the normal xterminals
<ivoks> \sh: so, they have OS :)
<\sh> ivoks: they have a boot loader and and pxe boot and loading all the stuff via network into their ram
<ivoks> \sh: that's what i'm talking about
<ivoks> that kind of setup i have
<\sh> ivoks: thats normal
<ivoks> and that works ok for 10-15 clients
<\sh> ivoks: usb devices?
<ivoks> but when you have 60, then it's pice of ....
<\sh> u plugin a us device at your client, and the server will use it as local device?
<siretart> lol: \sh: http://wwwcip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~simigern/SunRay-Home/11190003.JPG
<ivoks> \sh: no, usb in client is usb only on that client
<\sh> lol
<\sh> ivoks: u see...:)
<ivoks> \sh: what?
<\sh> ivoks: those extentions are using the local client usb device as a server device
<siretart> ivoks: the sunrays have a concept of 'detached' and 'attached' sessions, like screen. If you use the 'local' usb port, the sunray software keeps sure that local means local to the currently attached sunray
<\sh> it's transfering the info which device u plug in to the server
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> let's see if i get this right
<ivoks> you have one server
<ivoks> with N clients
<\sh> siretart: i don't know if it's standard, but I was able to burn a cd on a different client...i was using a usb cdrw on a station while i was logged in, detached my session, reattached my session on a blade, and was burning a cd
<\sh> on this cdrw of the client i was attached earlier
<siretart> \sh: I think thats only possible with the solaris sunray software. the linux cannot even handle usbsticks :(
<ivoks> ah...
<\sh> siretart: yeah i think so..it wasn't linux running there ;)
<ivoks> that's nice, but i don't think it's of too much use
<\sh> siretart: but this is one of the nifty feature..that's the reason i like this system
<ivoks> well, it's not worth 1000E per client :)
<\sh> ivoks: well....if u'r sitting on one client and u need a citrix session from a sun blade and u can watch videos, listen to mp3 via citrix..
<ivoks> heh
<ivoks> if you need it, buy it...
<\sh> and while u r doing this, u plugin a usb device, say cdrw, and the windows session recognizing your usb device, which u attached just now, and u r able to burn cds on this device, but your windows is running 5 rooms before you :)
<ivoks> i still don't think it's worth
<ivoks> couse why wouldn't you all that on one normal machine?
<\sh> ivoks: for a small to middle sized office, it's a usable solution. using gbit and some nice cisco gbit switches
<ivoks> s/all/do all/
<\sh> ivoks: support
<\sh> ivoks: think about it: user is complaining that his windows machine can't print on printer1
<ivoks> \sh: i don't speek with end users :)
<\sh> ivoks: support has to check several machines...the users machine, the printserver and the printer
<ivoks> \sh: no, only user machine and printer :)
<ivoks> CUPS is allways ok :)
<\sh> ivoks: user machine, printserver and printer
<\sh> :)
<ivoks> well, i don;t want to put my stick in one client, so other users on other clients can work with it
<\sh> ivoks: ??
<\sh> ivoks: nobody else can work with your stick :)
<ivoks> it's not like that? ah, right, session...
<ivoks> don't get me wrong, but i really don't think that's worth 1000e per client
<\sh> ivoks: for business solutions it is :)
<\sh> and those prices u wont get anyways...it's cheaper
<ivoks> i still don't get it... why would anyone leave client1 and go to client2, if that clients are same computers :)
<ivoks> same hardware, same OS, everything...
<ivoks> that's what chip cards are for, right?
<ivoks> to save your seesion, wich you can restore on another computer
<siretart> ivoks: thats great to show your work or to ask your collegue for advice who is sitting in another room. so you can take your session with you
<ivoks> siretart: i knew you will say that
<ivoks> but, we have webdav, ldap, nfs, smb, ftp
<siretart> ivoks: it's also great in labs, when you go out for lunch, and in the meantime someone else can use that client
<siretart> ivoks: same here
<ivoks> siretart: you don't need chip card for that
<ivoks> gnome has that options :)
<ivoks> apps, system tools, new login
<ivoks> ok RAM would be filled :)
<ivoks> sun didn't invenet anything great, he just put tools like those we use in onde product
<ivoks> they have money to do that
<ivoks> that's why i think that's not worth it
<\sh> ivoks: the clients can be those thin clients sunrays or sun blades or some new sun hardware client x86 ppc sparc technique
<ivoks> \sh: i know
<ivoks> that's advantage, you can have ppc and 386 with same setup
<\sh> ivoks: and this is only a kewl nifty thing :) it's something special ;)
<ivoks> i give them credit for that... but in the end, clients just boot another kernel, rest of the OS is same
<\sh> ivoks: and if something breaks, u have to call sun, they will replace it, and u don't have any work with it :)
<ivoks> :))
<ivoks> but you have to pay :)
<\sh> no u have contracts before hand :)
<ivoks> the point is that i'll do something similar at my faculty and i'll be the one to get payed :)
<\sh> right :)
<ivoks> can you optimize kernel for that clients?
<ivoks> couse, this 60 computers are in one big cluster
<ivoks> s/couse/cause/
<\sh> ivoks: for what?
<\sh> ivoks: one hardware one kernel
<\sh> don't think the linux way :)
<ivoks> \sh: well, i have to patch my kernels
<\sh> think the sun way :)
<\sh> ivoks: u see :) more work :)
<ivoks> \sh: that's i;m affraid of :) sun way :)
<ivoks> \sh: to do what sun does, i don't have to patch my kernel, not even rebuild it
<ivoks> but for sun to do what i'm doing... hm... :))
<\sh> ivoks: this is  not true
<ivoks> \sh: i have 60 computers booting without disks :)
<ivoks> all 60 are in one openmosix cluster
<\sh> u can adjust kernel settings etc. but it's different :) it's the same like tru64 u can "relink" the kernel with different settings
<ivoks> but you can't add openmosix features :)
<ivoks> no load balancing :)
<ivoks> my clients search for a client that doesn't do anything, and send proccess on it
<ivoks> so you have p3/700MHz, doing compiling on P4 3GHz in another room
<ivoks> another p3 will pass it to another p4
<ivoks> etc..
<ivoks> so, you see, SunRay isn't that big thing. you have it all in opensource world
<\sh> i've never said, it's a big thing :) it's nice to have, not much work :)
<ivoks> even USB devices could be managed
<ivoks> via dbus and hal
<ivoks> i'm sure something could be done with that too...
<ivoks> \sh: i guess that clients don't share memory, something that my clients do :)
<ivoks> ok... EOD? :)
<\sh> ivoks: sorry :) i had a phone call :)
<\sh> and trying to fix arkrpg
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> \sh: thing is... i want ubuntu to have this!
<ivoks> and i'll do that
<ivoks> i'll create some metapackage and configuration
<ivoks> wouldn't that be great?
<siretart> ivoks: i think thats being pushed by skolelinux (and therefor edubuntu) folks
<siretart> since they are trying such setups for scools
<ivoks> yeah, but, no openmosix there :)
<siretart> but freenx ;)
<siretart> is openmosix already ready for production use on linux 2.6?
<ivoks> not yet
<siretart> and what about amd64?
<ivoks> it is working well, but there are no tools
<ivoks> siretart: same thing, it will be supported in 2.6 version
<ivoks> but some stuff need to be done still...
<siretart> ic
<ivoks> so, i'll wait with this project or maybe join edubuntu when openmosix gets stable for 2.6
<ivoks> i have to go now...
<ivoks> so, see you!
<siretart> cu ivoks
<ivoks> if anyone is willing to join me on this, contact me
<ivoks> i really want to do great server enviorment on ubuntu
<siretart> ivoks: such an environment would be fun to setup :)
<siretart> gnarf. too late ;)
<koke> hi all!
<siretart> hi koke
<\sh> siretat: if you have time, please check the arkrpg source
<\sh> siretart: I'm stucked right now...and I don't know how to fix this nasty little thing
<siretart> downloading
<siretart> cxx transistion. I see.
<\sh> yeh
<\sh> ok..the renaming is easy..
* Nafallo hi all!
<\sh> mv debian/libarkrpg.* to debian/libarkrpgc2.*
<\sh> change debian/control
<\sh> and check in the rules file all libarkrpg and replace it with libarkrpgc2 (but not the -dev)
<\sh> but
<\sh> take a look in the debian/patches directory
<\sh> and try a test build :) u will see, that during the configure Xwindow tests it fails and wont find the xwindow libs and headers
<\sh> now, I'm trying to apply a autoreconf to the configure section, but this doesn't work anyhow...or I don't see it, because my brain is dead because of this package
<siretart> woah. that looks challenging..
<siretart> wtf?! libretoolized as dpatch?!
<siretart> hm
<\sh> siretart: yeah...
<\sh> but for me...I'm off now...
<\sh> showering....and getting some furniture :)
<\sh> cu later this evening dudes
<\sh> and siretart thx :)
<siretart> n/p
<siretart> have fun ;)
<siretart> cannot satisfy built dependencies
<Burgundavia> ogra, morning
<Burgundavia> ogra, morning, now that you have sorted out your nicks
<ogra> hey Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> ogra, I noticed you took the lead on Edubuntu. How can I help you with that?
<ogra> Burgundavia, let me first see what the Edubuntu guys say, i'm just inviting them to become MOTUs
<Burgundavia> ogra, ok, cool
<jsgotangco> hmm
<ogra> (there isnot much to do yet, since all software already exists and only needs packaging)
<jsgotangco> i should be a MOTU too soon
<HiddenWolf> ogra is making himself heard here. :)
<HiddenWolf> hardly a wiki without his name on it. ;)
<siretart> \sh: you are abolutly right. This arkrpg is a real mess
<ogra> heh
<Burgundavia> ogra, I think it is key to get it packaged as soon as possible, so we can work with upstream on improving the product, and on fixing bugs
<siretart> is there a page on what needs to be packaged?
<ajmitch> evening
<Nafallo> ajmitch: morning :-)
<siretart> morning ajmitch  :)
<Burgundavia> for packages that don't have a description in their debian dir, is it worth pinging the debian maintainer about it?
<ogra> Burgundavia, yep, but upstream is interested in becoming MOTU, so they could do the packaging themselves ;)
<Burgundavia> cool
<jsgotangco> wow
* #ubuntu-motu  [freenode-info]  help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
<jsgotangco> happy weekend to you all, get some sunshine :)
<ivoks> you too
* ivoks is testing firefox 1.1
<thom> (no, it won't be in breezy)
<thom> ;-)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i know, just checking out :)
<Amaranth> you just started? i've been on the nightly trainwreck for weeks :)
<tseng> thom++
<Amaranth> eh? it comes out next month, doesn't it?
<tseng> Amaranth: remember warty?
<Amaranth> 0.9.3+1.0+revertedto10.9.3 or some crap like that? :)
<tseng> yes.
<ivoks> what was that all about?
<tseng> uh
<tseng> 1.0-rc sucked big time
<Amaranth> i guess i'll just have to keep using nightlies then :)
<tseng> we had to pull it
<ivoks> ok i agree -rc shouldn't go in distribution
<tseng> thats how we got the B word
<thom> yeah
<Amaranth> Well, when your OS is ignored for the most part until 0.8 you wouldn't expect them to make it work in just 3 more releases.
<Amaranth> I'm surprised 0.9.3 didn't fall over more
<thom> it won't become firefox until the 2.0 release
<thom> 0.9.3 is surprisingly decent
<thom> so i may try and sneak deer park into universe
<ivoks> it starts very fast...
<ivoks> faster then 1.0
<tseng>  bye all
<ivoks> bye
<thom> later dude
<thom> i wish they'd provide freaking source for their trunk builds
<Burgundavia> thom, don't they have to?
<ogra> thom, do you know of a easy way to replace NIS atuthentication with LDAP ? i'm just looking through the LTSP stuff, and they use NIS obviously, which hurts badly imho
<Burgundavia> seen this? http://blog.ignore-your.tv/images/fusa-lotsa-users.png
<thom> Burgundavia: no.
<Burgundavia> on p.g.o
<ivoks> Burgundavia: fast-user-switch
<Burgundavia> no, the number of users, tis funny
<Burgundavia> and an interesting edge case
<ogra> Unfrgive1 has packaged it alredy
<ivoks> hehe
<thom> ogra: i have no idea how nis ties in, actually. if it uses PAM it should be pretty trivial
<ivoks> yeah, we have a deb for ubuntu
<ogra> thom, oki, i'll look at it...
<ivoks> Burgundavia: this isn't too much users...
<Burgundavia> ivoks, there are some interesting UI points that are raised by that
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> that reminds me... is there something wrong with wifi-radar? :)
<ivoks> well... bye all
<ivoks> i have work to do..
<siretart> ogra: actually, it shouldn't be that painfull to replace nis with ldap, i've done this already
<ogra> siretart, in a LTSP environment ?
<siretart> ogra: the main problem about this migration is rather that the way how the users are managed is completly different.
<siretart> ogra: no, I havn't done any ltsp work yet, but whats so different with an 'normal' nis environment?
<ogra> dunno ;)
<ogra> but i'll have to find it out
<ivoks> ldap?
<siretart> ogra: acutally, you would need libnss-ldap for such an environment. Set /etc/nsswitch.conf to ldap after configuring
<ivoks> of course he needs :)
<ivoks> nsswitch.conf is must have file
<ivoks> man, must have :)
<ivoks> he has to edit it
<siretart> ogra: after that, you'll perhaps also want ppl to login with ldap accounts, so /etc/pam.d/* would need to be adjusted to use libpam-ldap
<ivoks> ogra: passwd: ldap compat (same for group and shadow)
<siretart> ogra: we are doing stuff like that here via cfengine2. If I can help you, let me know
<ogra> oki, thanks, i'll look at it more close and come back to you if its time :)
<ivoks> cfengine2 is holly grale for that :)
<siretart> cfengine can also be quite a beast, trust me
<ivoks> :)
<Mithrandir> pam should really grow some tools to change the configuration files programatically.
<siretart> I'm not sure it should.
<Mithrandir> it would be very, very nice if you were given the option of activating pam modules when they are installed.
<Mithrandir> so you could ask for, say, libpam-tmpdir to be enabled for all services when that is installed (and removed on remove, naturally)
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: some PAM modules don't make sense for some PAM-users
<siretart> this security stuff needs to be controlable and verifyable. I don't know how you can acheive that any other way like now
<siretart> Mithrandir: what about pam modules which need configuration, like say, libpam-ldap?
<Mithrandir> Treenaks: then have a blacklist (or whitelist, whichever makes sense) for which the should be enabled for?
<Mithrandir> siretart: they could ask for configuration too?
<siretart> Mithrandir: this would complicate non interactive installations
<Mithrandir> siretart: why?
<Mithrandir> and saying that "this is not a perfect solution for all pam modules" doesn't mean "this should not be done for any pam modules".
* ivoks is drunk :)
<ogra> ivoks, in the afternoon ?
<ivoks> yeah... i'm setting up e-mail server :)
<ivoks> 60 users... boring job... so i buyed beer :)
<ogra> ah, ok... understandable :)
<ivoks> makes job funnyer :)
<ogra> but double check your work ;)
<ivoks> ogra: of course... i have years and years of expirience
<ivoks> my hands don't listen to my brain when I'm drunk
<ivoks> they do their job.. and brain goes outside :)
<siretart> Mithrandir: perhaps you are right, and some pam modules could provide an easier way for enabling them.
<Mithrandir> siretart: I think it would be useful, at least.
<siretart> Mithrandir: still, I don't see how this could be practically done with the current configuration style pam is using
<Mithrandir> siretart: it would need to understand the format and insert it at appropriate places.
<siretart> Mithrandir: you mean some autoconfig infrastructure which recreates pam config as needed/wished by the admin? sounds quite dangerous to me
<siretart> and reminds me a bit to what yast is supposed to do
<Treenaks> siretart: *shudder*
<Mithrandir> siretart: no, not recreates.  Edits the one in place.  Should be easy enough to write something.
<Treenaks> and an @include ?
<siretart> hm. I'm still not sure. It sounds like a great project, but I'm still not sure how it could look like. are any other distributions already offering something like this?
<Mithrandir> Treenaks: @include is scary, yes.  You'd have to do that in some non-crackful way.
<ivoks> heh
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: annoyingly, @include syntax has changed in 0.78/0.79 :)
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> i'm too drunk :)
<ivoks> anyone here know perl?
<jamessan|work> ivoks: yeah
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i fixed problem :)
<jamessan|work> cool
<ivoks> time to go..
<ivoks> bye all!
* Burgundavia kicks some MOTUs
<Burgundavia> someone on -devel is seeking packaging advice
<ogra> Burgundavia, you are faster then my 5min mail poll :P
* ogra kicks back
<siretart> hey, no rowdys in here!
<siretart> :)
<Burgundavia> sorry I monitor my mail religously
<Burgundavia> soon I will have a job and not be able to spend many hours with you wonderful people
<ogra> :)
<ogra> siretart, i wear my furry boots today, no damage done ;)
<Burgundavia> hmm, fur
<siretart> lol
<ogra> yeah, its great at 30 degree celsius....
<siretart> way too hot for /me
<ogra> heh
<siretart>    Wind: From the Northwest at 2 mph
<bddebian> Howdy
<MarioOs> hello
<siretart> I uploaded an updated keychain package, but got no response yet. Do I need to reupload it as soon as elmo adds my key to the keyring or is that package handled manually then?
<elmo> you need to reupload when your key is added
<siretart> ok
<siretart> do we get notified when this is done?
<elmo> yes
<siretart> ok
<elmo> if you mailed keyring/upload@
<siretart> thanks!
<siretart> elmo: I did, mako even replied
<elmo> blink
<ogra> elmo, \sh too ...
<bddebian> La la la la, la la la la, Elmo's World...
<bddebian> Sorry, couldn't resist. :-)
<DanielN> uehh :)
<bddebian> Hello DanielN
<chillywilly> hello ppl
<ogra> hey all
<DanielN> haidiho ogra, chillysilly ;)
<DanielN> ups. .
<ogra> heh
<chillywilly> is anyone packaging twisted python framework?
<chillywilly> where can I find a list of things that need to be done?
<ogra> erm, i think thats already there...
<chillywilly> yea, I see it..'
<ogra> currently the best place it help is the C++ transition
<chillywilly> what's the "C++ transition"?
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly, ogra
<ogra> we switch the compile to g++4
<bddebian> chillywilly: Don't act like you are actually going to do anything man..
* bddebian ducks
<chillywilly> bddebian: don't make me woop you
<ogra> so all librarys and apps need a rebuild and a new naming scheme
<chillywilly> :)
<ogra> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BreezyToolchainTransition
<chillywilly> ic
<bddebian> chillywilly: Oh please, whip me honey.. ;-)
<ogra> indeed we need to trnsition the libs first...
<ogra> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList
<ogra> so the above is currently the best place to help
<Nafallo> hmpf
* Nafallo turns off the porno-highlights while bddebian is in the channel ;-)
<bddebian> Oh man.. :)
<chillywilly> bddebian: and what are you packaging right now? ;)
<siretart> chillywilly: <advmode> if you want to see an application in ubuntu actually using twisted, then have a look at "londonlaw" ;) </advmode>
<bddebian> chillywilly: Ubuntu GNU/Hurd.. ;-P
<siretart> wow
<chillywilly> :)
<ogra> lol
<ogra> bddebian, will it be ready "next year" ?
<chillywilly> almost lunch time
<bddebian> Sure
<ogra> hehe
<bddebian> Maybe I'll call it Ubunturd GNU/Hurd
<bddebian> Oh I crack myself up...
<chillywilly> I am still waiting for the "Randy Rhinocerus" release but I don't think that one will ever happen either ;)
<chillywilly> somehow the image of a rhino humping your leg isn't very appealing... ;P
<chillywilly> or just down right scary
<ajmitch> bddebian: Hubuntu :)
<chillywilly> hoo-boon-tooo?
* ajmitch thinks it'd be safer to put bddebian & chillywilly on ignore :)
<chillywilly> :'(
<chillywilly> *sniff*
<ajmitch> you'll survive
<siretart> ok, i'm off for today.cu tomorrow
<ajmitch> chillywilly: btw what's wrong with the twisted packages in ubuntu & debian? :P
<chillywilly> bye
<chillywilly> nothing I suppose
<chillywilly> was grasping at straws
<chillywilly> but I definitely like twisted and nevow better than zope
<ajmitch> heh
<chillywilly> :)
* chillywilly hies
<chillywilly> hides too
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<herve> heya!
<Nafallo> hi herve :-)
<DanielN> hi herve
<bddebian> Hello herve
<mgalvin> hi all
<mgalvin> this may be a silly question, but I have 2 machines I am trying to build debs on
<mgalvin> when I gen my gpg key, can i just copy $HOME/.gnupg over to the 2nd box
<ogra> yep
<bddebian> Hello mgalvin
<ogra> hi mgalvin btw
<mgalvin> cool, thnx
<ogra> nice to see you here :)
<mgalvin> nice to be here :)
<ogra> :)
<herve> hey, mgalvin
<bddebian> Hey, you never tell ME that it's nice to see me here.. ;-)
<herve> you finally came :-)
<herve> hi, bddebian, nice to see you around!
<bddebian> Heh
<mgalvin> yup, i made it, i had to stop and ask for directions ;)
<ivoks> hi all
<bddebian> Hello ivoks
<herve> hi
<ivoks> herve: where can I see logs of packages that faild to build?
<herve> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/
<ivoks> thanx
<\sh> re *phew*
<herve> phew?
<\sh> since this afternoon i was moving furniture from one office to my flat
<chillywilly> ooof
<chillywilly> Qdoba's burriots are no joke my friends
<chillywilly> you could kill an elephant with those things
<chillywilly> choke an elephant rather
<ogra> \sh, isnt it a bit warm for such things ?
<\sh> ogra: well, we had no choice..but it was nice at schweizers beergarden ;)
<ogra> heh
<ivoks> i agree with ogra :)
<\sh> nice steaks some beer
<\sh> it's ok...and ;) there was another surprise
<ogra> \sh, the only thing i miss from this company :) (except some people)
<\sh>  /dev/sda1 160829704
<\sh> guess what it is?
<ogra> iuu
<ogra> nice
<\sh> ogra: u r right ;)
<herve> \sh, depends the unit :-)
<\sh> herve: usb2 160GB ide udma5 7200rpm and silent :)
<ogra> oh, only 7200
<\sh> it's enough for the laptop
<ogra> usb ?
<\sh> jepp
<\sh> usb1.1/usb2 :)
<\sh> I mean, now i can make a rsync rsync://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu ;)
<\sh> ah it's shutting down when I don't make any attempt to access this drive...:) nice :)
<ivoks> one question: how do i define something int for i386, and long for amd64 and ia64?
<ivoks> ifdef... WHAT? :)
<herve> ivoks, I changed types causing FTBFS to long
<herve> not considering the arch
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> i did that too on one package...
<ivoks> tought maybe would be better to do ifdef...
<DanielN> ree
<herve> I don't feel good at a variable changing its type across archs
<herve> s/at/about
<ivoks> anyone has amd64 or ia64?
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> siretart: ping :)
<DanielN> \sh some time to review? ^^
<ivoks> Mithrandir: ping :)
<\sh> DanielN: just now :) let me have a shower first :) it's not nice to smell myself right now :)
<herve> strange idea... :-)
<ogra> \sh, some noseplugs would help too
<ivoks> \sh: take a shower... i think i can smell it allover here :)
<\sh> ogra: ok..if u say so...let's try it out...next week at your place?
<ivoks> hm... no... that's me :)
<\sh> ogra: first move some beer barrels and then we will have a "who is smelling nicer after work" duell ;)
<\sh> ok...no jokes anymore :) showering time
<ivoks> come on guys... someone must have amd64?
<DanielN> *** unhandled exception in callback:
<DanielN> ***   variable not allowed to be undef where GtkTreeIter is wanted at /usr/bin/qemu-launcher line 871.
<DanielN> ***  ignoring at /usr/bin/qemu-launcher line 1277.
<DanielN> ....
<DanielN> some perl specialists over there ? :)
<ogra> rather gtk2-perl i guess
<ivoks> don't undef that variable :)
<ivoks> doko: hi
<ogra> heh
<DanielN> ivoks: that means? (i haven't coded that)
<ivoks> DanielN: go to line 871 in that file
<DanielN> yeah
<DanielN> i am there since ~1h :)
<ivoks> and, is there undef?
<DanielN> i don't know, since i don't know anything about perl *shame*
<ivoks> DanielN: does anywhere there says 'undef'?
<ogra> is the word "undef" in the line anywhere ?
<herve> DanielN, paste that line here
<ivoks> hm... it's only one line
<ivoks> i tought so too herve :)
<\sh> back
<DanielN> 	my $val = $model->get($widget->get_active_iter(),0);
<ivoks> \sh: could u check one source? :>
<\sh> $widget->get_active_iter() is not defined
<herve> then get_active_iter returns an undef variable or value?
<DanielN> return $val
<\sh> herve: ^5 :)
<doko> ivoks: pong
<DanielN> \sh: but it's used in the source earlier to
<herve> better having dinner than debugging perl, anyway ;-)
<ivoks> doko: so, you are in mood for ping-pong? :)
<DanielN> good eat herve
<\sh> DanielN: $widget->get_active_iter() gets one element from a list
<herve> I guess it's an iterator like in python
<\sh> if this element is not there, it will return 0 which means something like undef
<herve> or an iterator factory?
<ivoks> erase that line :)
<ogra> herve, factory ? in perl ?
<\sh> DanielN: easy thing to do, is to ask beforehand if $widget->get_active_iter() is available or not
<DanielN> \sh: who is beforehand ?
<herve> ogra, a factory is just a function or class method return an instance of something
<\sh> DanielN: something like this
<\sh> my $val=0;
<\sh> if ($widget->get_active_iver()) {
<ogra> herve, just a hint, never talk about factorys in a get perl channel ;)
<\sh> $val=$model->get($widget->get_active_iter(),0));
<\sh> }
<\sh> else {
<\sh>  # raise some error dialog box or whatever
<\sh> }
<ivoks> print "This is a stoopid program~\n";
<DanielN> aha
<DanielN> mhm .. i think i leave this to the original author :)
<DanielN> but thanks anyway
<ivoks> why? come on... it's a script
<\sh> those errors can happen, if you delete the pointer out of the list directly, without using the proposed function for it
<DanielN> ok
<\sh> .oO(and this is only a small gunshot in the dark ;))
<DanielN> it's qemu-launcher from wich i talk .. if someone is interest in it :)
<\sh> ok..ivoks...
<\sh> ivoks: u will go after danieln :)
<\sh> DanielN: "when" right? :)
<ivoks> \sh: with what?
<ivoks> \sh: wifi-radar? :)
<\sh> ivoks: with your source :)
<DanielN> theo one who should be reviewed? then yes, \sh
<ivoks> \sh: ok
<ivoks> i'll end up buying amd64 :(
<ivoks> just for Cxx transition
<\sh> dual amd64 opteron 1.xx GHz 19" server with 1GB 160GB HD == 1282 EUR
<\sh> dvd rom included
<\sh> 2 power supplies
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> i'll ask faculty to provide me one :)
<herve> think about the climate too... those poor bears!
<\sh> it's a good price
<ivoks> i transfered two sarge servers on ubuntu
<\sh> 1HE
<ivoks> without reboot :)
<\sh> DanielN: remove the *.ex files, if you don't need them..if you need them, mv {}.ex {}  \;
<ogra> \sh, where ?
<\sh> ogra: I saw it today in a reseller magazine
<ogra> \sh, and what kind of cooling does it have ?
<ivoks> what happend after replacing libc6... there are no words to describe that :)
<\sh> ogra: I don't know,.no informations about this...but we will ask..and if it's ok, we'll buy one
<\sh> but with 2 or 4 GB ram
<ogra> \sh, you shouldnt buy a 1HE machine of this kind without a 19" cabinet, they are not cooled
<\sh> ogra: we have a 19" cabinet :)
<ogra> \sh, with air condition ?
<\sh> ogra: sure :)
<\sh> ogra: if you enter the hosteurope DC in cologne-gremberghoven ;) the first cabinet after the entry door :) this is ours:)
<ogra> \sh, i'm about to buy me a build server here, i have a "non air conditioned" cabinet with just some fan's ...
<ogra> \sh, i dont talk about hosteurope...
<\sh> ogra: we will put this thing into our cabinet :)
<ogra> \sh, i talk about my server room here...
<DanielN> \sh: you mean just removing the .ex extension? (if i need them)
<\sh> DanielN: yeah
<\sh> or do a when.postinst when.postrm
<\sh> etc.
<ivoks> OOoCon 2005 in Slovenia... nice
<\sh> this is much nicer
<DanielN> aha
<DanielN> ok, i'll fix it
<\sh> ogra: well, do u need a 19" cabinet with active cooling ?
<\sh> ogra: for your server room @home?
<ogra> nope, just a active cooling unit for my cabinet
<\sh> i think i can get one
<mgalvin> sorry to butt in, do I have to reg my gpg key with a public server
<\sh> ogra: half height?
<\sh> ogra: or full height? i was talking about full height :)
<ogra> 2.20m
<ogra> mgalvin, yeps
<ogra> jj
<ogra> 
<mgalvin> ogra, is there a specific server i should reg with?
<ivoks> mgalvin: just one
<ivoks> mgalvin: it will then spread you key to others
<ogra> grr... damned keyboard.... just going mad...
<mgalvin> ok, thnx
<ogra> mgalvin, they mirror each other
<\sh> hmm..how can I check the trustdb.gpg from /etc/apt/
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> last update 10 april
<DanielN> \sh: fixed and uploaded ;>
<\sh> DanielN: where is the makefile for debian/patches?
<herve> makefile?
<herve> you just need extra rules in debian/rules
<DanielN> thought that too, herve
<\sh> patch-stamp:
<\sh>         dh_testdir
<\sh>         $(MAKE) -s -f debian/patches/Makefile patch
<DanielN> \sh: as you said to me yesterady
<\sh> for this u need a makefile
<DanielN> taken it just from your source .. mhm
<herve> haha
<\sh> DanielN: in aspseek there is a makefile :)
<herve> sorry :-)
<\sh> in debian/patches :)
<DanielN> ok
<DanielN> mhm .. and what must contain this makefile?
<\sh> DanielN: but it's easier to do a patch -p<N> < debian/patches/<yourpatchfile>
<herve> why not using dpatch?
<\sh> replace the $(MAKE) with the line i told u ;)
<herve> (I thought you were)
<DanielN> \sh: can you told me that line again?
<\sh> herve: cause normal patches are much better for cdbs ;)
<\sh> patch -p<N> < debian/patches/<yourpatchfile>
<DanielN> ah
<herve> what can I reply to this :-)
<\sh> replace <N> with the 1/2/3/4 or whatever u need
<DanielN> yourpatchfile reffers to the diff ?
<\sh> yeah
<DanielN> <N> is revision or what?
<ivoks> uh
<herve> dpatch *hint* *hint*
<ivoks>  <N> is striping number
<ogra> \sh, again, please dont teach newcomers cdbs
<\sh> DanielN: man patch :)
<ogra> i'm serions here
<ivoks> \sh: :)
<\sh> ogra: i don't teach them cdbs :) I only tell them: use patch not dpatch :)
<ogra> <\sh> herve: cause normal patches are much better for cdbs ;)
<\sh> ogra: me too
<ivoks> so... what's about cdbs?
<\sh> ivoks: forget cdbs right now
<bddebian> Hey, someone is going to have to teach me cdbs..
<\sh> ogra: herve is not a newcomer ... but anyways
<ivoks> \sh: ah... i'll find out by my self :)
<ogra> ivoks, cdbs is good if you have learned all the internals.... but not before
<\sh> I'm not telling anyone to use cds :)
<ivoks> i understand
<ogra> :)
<DanielN> so what is ok now? patch?
<ivoks> but i would just like to know what is that
<ivoks> if i know what's atomic bomb, it doesn't mean i will use it
<herve> ogra, ok, didn't get it was a cdbs'ed package
<\sh> herve: it's not :)
<herve> argh
<ivoks> ogra: it has something to do with dpatch?
<herve> ARGH!
<ogra> ivoks, it builds your packages magically for you... your rules file becomes a no brainer then
<ivoks> :))
<\sh> DanielN: man patch .. there is the -p switch, read this section
<ivoks> ah, ok
<DanielN> \sh: 'll do :)
<\sh> DanielN: or the other way.. let me explain it to you easily
<\sh> u made the patch like this: diff -ur <unpatchedsourcetree>/ <patchedsourcetree>/
<DanielN> yep
<ogra> ivoks, but you get a huge amount of overhead... lots of things you dont need for small packages etc...
<\sh> now, if debuild or pbuilder is building the package for u, u r inside the <debianized sourcetree>
<ivoks> ogra: i realized by now that plain cp, mv, chown is best thing for small packages
<\sh> it means, u need to use "patch -p1 < debian/patches/<your patchfile>"
<ogra> ivoks, and the debhelper scripts....
<DanielN> oukey .. i can follow
<DanielN> :)
<ivoks> ogra: thanx for clearing that out :)
<ivoks> ogra: well, some of debhelper scripts :)
<ogra> yep
<DanielN> and this line i build into the rules file ...
<\sh> ogra: something i'm missing in all this package maintaining is: info make ;)
<DanielN> yeah .. got that \sh :)
<\sh> DanielN: yeah, remove the $(MAKE) debian/patches/blabla
<DanielN> and replace it with the patch line ;)
<ogra> ivoks, sincemost of our MOTU work is _fixing_ packages and most of the packages are dh_something based, its more important to know that then cdbs...
<ivoks> ogra: i agree
<ivoks> ogra: don't worry, i'm not going to break anything
<ivoks> ogra: i do want to know as much is possible about packaging
<\sh> ogra: but i have one package with cdbs magic...and i need to to a "autoreconf" in the configure section..but this is not working :(
<ogra> cdbs is good enough that you understand it without explanation if you know how the dh_ stuff works... thanks to jbailey :)
<ivoks> ogra: i'm so sad that i never packaged anything, and i'm using debian for 7-8 years
<ivoks> ogra: so i need to catch up lot's of things...
<ogra> but you are used to the underlying system, so its not too hard....
<ivoks> yeah, i know a lot of debian, but debian/* is a mistery :)
<ogra> \sh, switch it to debhelper :P
<\sh> ogra: well, the problem is more, that this guy made a relibtoolize patch
<ogra> hrm
<\sh> and this patch breaks the xwindow libs/includes tests
<\sh> and it's only fixed by autoreconfigure
<ogra> and you can write a patch to do it ?
<ogra> cant even
<\sh> i have to talk to Burgundavia
<\sh> ogra: well...patch 12_relibtoolize patch 13_somebugs_patch
<ivoks> :( doesn't look good :(
<\sh> i have to redo all the patchwork again
<ivoks> too many medic choppers landing in hospital...
<ivoks> something happend :((
<DanielN> \sh: should be ok now
<\sh> hey tseng
<tseng|work> hi
<tseng|work> ogra: weird about edubuntu stalling
<ogra> ??
<tseng|work> ogra: jeff elkner never mailed me about a confernece he wanted me to help with either
<tseng|work> where are all those guys
<tseng|work> were they just supposed to do the specs?
<ogra> i'm in contact with him
<tseng|work> ok are you talking to jeff?
<ogra> since i'm the lead of edubuntu now
<tseng|work> yes :)
<ogra> thats why i dnot have time for Cxx currently... i have to prepare a lot
<tseng|work> ok, if you talk to jeff can you please remind him of my email
<ogra> i'll do
<tseng|work> i have a feeling he lost it
<tseng|work> thanks.
<\sh> nice
<\sh> i packed a native package
<\sh> *grmpf*
* tseng|work hurts \sh
<ivoks> \sh: ?
<\sh> tseng|work: hit me hard ;)
<ogra> \sh, is hosteurope gone ?
<ogra> \sh, i cant traceroute my server currently
<jbailey> ogra: Next time you and I have a chance to sit down together, I'd love to write down a list of what we think maintainers should know and maybe give them designations like "beginner intermediate and advanced"
<ogra> jbailey, that would be great :)
<bddebian> ack
<\sh> hmm
<jbailey> ogra: It would be interesting not so much from a certification POV, but to give people a roadmap to follow when learning packaging.
<ogra> yep
<bddebian> How about sub-beginner? :-)
<tseng|work> jbailey: it can correspond to pages in the developers intro
<jbailey> bddebian: If you don't know how to load a web browser to read the docs, the questions are out of scope. =)
<ogra> they should read debiansNM guide first :)
<\sh> ogra: no...i think they put a icmp filter
<ogra> \sh, my traceroute ends here : ker-uplink.hosteurope.de (134.222.99.34)  63.232 ms  63.323 ms  63.082 ms
* ivoks loves Plong Author in Pan :)
<\sh> 5:  ge-bb-pg1-13.netcologne.de (81.173.192.163)          asymm  6  98.454ms
<\sh>  6:  195.14.213.222 (195.14.213.222)                      asymm  7 101.532ms
<\sh>  7:  194.8.214.238 (194.8.214.238)                        asymm  9  99.295ms
<ogra> \sh, i wont pay them if they put a icmp server in front of my server
<\sh>  8:  no reply
<ivoks> plonk even :)
<ogra> s/server/filter
<\sh> hmm
<\sh> ogra: u have access to KIS?
<\sh> hmm
<\sh> KIS is gone
<ivoks> ah, tierd...
<ogra> \sh, i'll have to dig some hours to find my access data
<ivoks> bye folks
<\sh> ogra: it's down anyways...so they are changing some things
<ogra> \sh, i used it two times in 3 years
<ogra> yes, they sent out a mail about that... but that didnt say the server access would be gone...
<ivoks> gaim is noing on my nervs
<\sh> ogra: u can ssh to it
<\sh> its there
<ogra> \sh, hwdb.ubuntu.com is running on my server
<ivoks> i have two lists, one with friends and other with buddys
<\sh> hmmm?
<\sh> ogra: i can access our servers...
<\sh> ogra: but yours not
<bddebian> jbailey: :)
<\sh> ogra: call them that network 217.115.139.0/24 is not reachable anymore
<\sh> ogra: u know something, dh_make is including this nasty copy of config.{guess,sub} into the clean: target of the debian/rules file
<ogra> phone...
<tseng|work> dh_make sucks
<tseng|work> you need to edit most everything
<\sh> tseng|work: but it's in the debina NM
<tseng|work> yeah yeah
<tseng|work> you need to use it I guess
<tseng|work> but i dont keep any of t he files it makes
<tseng|work> they are shit
<tseng|work> we could make a nicer skeleton package
<tseng|work> brb
<\sh> tseng|work: this would be better to make a new skeleton package
<\sh> oh men
<\sh> queen concert wembley 1986
<\sh> "we will stay on stage until we die"
<herve> and a python package skeleton
<\sh> nice..qinx compiled and packaged for kde-3.4.1
<mgalvin> ok, i was able to build the package last night, but I went and installed a whole bunch of the lib and *-dev packages and now I am getting this build error...
<mgalvin> gcc -Wall -O2 main.o gnome-clipboard-daemon.o selection-data-list.o -o gnome-clipboard-daemon `pkg-config --libs gtk+-2.0`
<mgalvin> /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/3.3.5/../../../crt1.o: file not recognized: File format not recognized
<mgalvin> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
<mgalvin> i can prolly figure it out, but wondered if anyone has seen this before
<mgalvin> before i dig to deep
<mgalvin> maybe I installed some version of a lib that I shouldn't have?
<\sh> hmm...I will rewrite arkrpg to debhelper ;)
<\sh> jbailey: ping
<jbailey> \sh: here
<\sh> jbailey: i have a problem with one package which is using cdbs magic
<\sh> when is the simplepatchsys activated...before or after configure target?
<jbailey> before.
<\sh> ok
<\sh> now, if i have a source packages wich builds lets say: package libpackage libpackage-dev and I have to run autoreconf in the configure target, in which rule i should hook it?
<\sh> configure/package:: or configure/libpackage:: ?
<herve> mgalvin, I have no idea
<\sh> wrong compiler version for the shared lib=
<\sh> ?
<tseng|work> man i thought i was threw having people past in failed GCC lines when i left gentoo
<tseng|work> *paste
<mgalvin> yea, sorry for the noise, i only asked b/c it seems somehow a lib i installed from main brakes the compliation
<tseng|work> thats part of GCC
<tseng|work>  /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/3.3.5/../../../crt1.o
<tseng|work> we are using GCC 4.0 for most everything now so im not sure what you are doing
<tseng|work> hoary I guess
<mgalvin> right
<tseng|work> if you are building from source on hoary, thats not really our area
<tseng|work> if you needed help packaging for breezy and got that, you'd be in the right spot
<tseng|work> that message is kind of worrying about the state of your toolchain, my first thought would be apt-get install --reinstall gcc
<tseng|work> not sure though.
<mgalvin> i am learning to build the packages, and am currently using hoary, when I figure out what I am doing i would like to start helping out building breezy packages
<mgalvin> i will try that
<herve> mgalvin, you can use a chroot to keep your system fine
<mgalvin> herve, i think i may try that
<mgalvin> tseng|work, no go reinstalling gcc didn't do anything, thnx anyway
<mgalvin> gotta run for now, thnx for the help, cia l8r
<herve> hey, a shell with syntax highlighting
<herve> and online help
<jamessan> fish?
<\sh> herve: what?
<herve> jamessan, yes
<herve> http://lwn.net/Articles/136232/
<MarioOs> hello
<jamessan> herve: yup, I'm packaging that for Debian.  just waiting for jbailey to sponsor the upload
<herve> woohoo!
<\sh> ask herve dude ;)
<\sh> reviewed? ;)
<jamessan> it's up on mentors
<jamessan> jbailey's been my sponsor for other things, so I just bugged him about it
<\sh> ah :)
* \sh has to wait for elmo ;)
<herve> mentors?
<herve> can't find it
<jamessan> mentors.debian.net
<\sh> .oO(why i want to write every time emlo instead of elmo)
<herve> ho, I thought about the debian-mentors list
<jamessan> close, but no cigar  ;)
<tseng|work> uh
<tseng|work> bash and zsh both do history searching just fine
<tseng|work> you can even bind it to the up arrow
<tseng|work> and they dont make up their own shell language either, wow
<jamessan> tseng|work: the difference is you can start typing any part of a previous command and then hit up
* tseng|work reserves further comment :)
<herve> hey, like the vim history!
<tseng|work> jamessan: so can bash, if i bind the key that way
<tseng|work> i just said that
<jamessan> tseng|work: I was under the impression you had to enter search mode with bash first.  my mistake
<tseng|work> nope
<tseng|work> i have it bound to page up at the moment
<tseng|work> but up arrow could work just as well
<jamessan> anyway, I like the syntax highlighting it does. e.g., "somecommand | grep foo" will highlight foo in the results
<tseng|work> see the commented examples in /etc/inputrc
<tseng|work> time to go home, yay
<tseng|work> have fun with your fish :)
<herve> by the way...
<herve> doko: ping
<doko> herve: pong
<herve> did you notice the python2.3 console lost its readline features?
<herve> or is it just me...
<doko> strange, yes. same with python2.2. could you file a bug report?
<herve> sure
<herve> I checked python2.3 on my unstable box, and it's ok
<herve> doko, or would it be related to the key bindings bugs?
<herve> but I was told it involves the ctrl key
<doko> then why does python2.4 work?
<herve> good point
<herve> what a comfort firefox opens thunderbird mail redaction windows on the click on a mailto link
<ivoks> ff1.1?
<herve> no, breezy one
<herve> you want my secret? ;-)
<ivoks> well, it opens evolution for me :)
<herve> well, good thing the integration is well done with "official" packages
<ivoks> where did you found mailto: links?
<ivoks> i opend 10 pages... no mailto links :))
<herve> debian bugs pages
<ivoks> heh...
<ivoks> should be no problem converting this to thunderbird
<ivoks> just select it as default mail client
<ivoks> and that's it
<herve> that's what I thought
<herve> but firefox will just make thunderbird open a new sssion
<herve> and tb would complain the default one is already in use
<ivoks> do you want to see one very nasty mozilla/firefox/thunderbird bug?
<ivoks> start firefox as root, via sudo or su
<herve> what an idea!
<herve> :-)
<ivoks> don't open any page, just start it
<ivoks> leave it open and start firefox as a user
<ivoks> woho! now you have user's firefox with root privlegdes
<jamessan> heh
<herve> you were right
<herve> nice one!
<ivoks> same with thunderbird and mozilla
<ivoks> i reported that year ago..
<ivoks> noone cared...
<ivoks> mozilla doesn't check who is the owner of running session
<ivoks> it just opens new window in same session
<ivoks> stoopid
<ivoks> heh, same thing with 1.1 :(
<ivoks> man... i will repackage fai
<ivoks> it isn't ubuntunized
<ivoks> Failed getting release file http://hr.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/sarge/Release
<ivoks> heh :)
<ogra> ivoks, hsprang already did
<ivoks> yeah?
<ivoks> damn... :)
<ogra> ivoks, look at the ToReview page, it must be there anywhere
<ivoks> where is it?
<ivoks> ok
<ogra> or on the NEW package...
<ogra> it isnt breezy-ized yet....
<ivoks> maybe i could help him
<ogra> yep... ask him if he comes around
<ogra> he works tight with the fai developer on it afaik
<ivoks> nice
<ivoks> :( he has wrong package naming
<ogra> sad
<ivoks> fai_2.6.6ubuntu1.tar.gz
<ogra> (i didnt look at them yet)
<chillywilly> how many here work for canonical?
<ivoks> ogra: i'll contact him and we will do it better
<ogra> ivoks, i think it might be a native package, even upstream...
<ogra> so he probably didnt want to change that to stay compatible with upstream...
<herve> another reason to work tight with the developer ;-)
<ogra> heh
<ivoks> uh...
<ivoks> this is ugly ugly package
<ivoks> pardon, source
<ivoks> it extracts in changed dir (?)
<ogra> ivoks, ask henning if he's around again...
<ivoks> changed, that's the name of dir
<ivoks> i will
<ivoks> i'll send him an email
<ogra> he might have reasons to do that
<chillywilly> man, I really want to go home...
<ogra> yep
<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> flash...aaaah aaaaah....defender of the universe...
<ogra> heh
<herve> reminds me a nice joke
<herve> photograph without or with flash?
<chillywilly> with please
<herve> the latter had the hero himself on the photo :-)
<chillywilly> wasn't there some show called He-Man Masters of teh Universe?
<chillywilly> the*
<herve> no s
<herve> I never watched that series
<chillywilly> it was a He-Man movie I think
<ogra> herve, did ajmitch talk to you about the MOTUPython page ?
<herve> nope
<chillywilly> he's lives upside down so he's probably sleeping
<chillywilly> (NZ)
<chillywilly> ;^P
<\sh> ok guys...time to sleep...
<ogra> i was asked by some people why the page is this empty.... could one of you please take the teamlead and make something up on the page 1-2 sentences and a leader should be enough
<ogra> herve ^^
<herve> got it ;-)
<ogra> great.... :)
<herve> though it's not an official acceptance of the lead
<herve> but interim lead for the week-end, sure
<chillywilly> um
<chillywilly> is it time to go home yet?
<ogra> herve, who ever comes first and is a MOTU :)
<herve> chillywilly, already the weekend for me ;-)
<ogra> ....is qualified as a leader ....
<herve> leading the walk or leading a team...
<ivoks> there is it again
<ivoks> notes:
<chillywilly> herve: are you one of those upside down people?
<ivoks>  learn more about cdbs - common build system for Debian packages
<ivoks> :))
<herve> chillywilly: there's no upside down in space
<chillywilly> people who live in AU or NZ are upside down ;)
<chillywilly> sheesh
<herve> ivoks, learning more doesn't mean the tools fits your needs!
<ivoks> herve: that;s from: http://www.sprang.de/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_install_with_FAI
<chillywilly> anyway, it's a joke...one can only appreciate it when they learn not to try and analyze it scientifically
<herve> yo daniel!
<ogra> ivoks, heh
<dholbach> hey
<ogra> hi dholbach
<ivoks> dholbach: hi
<herve> ivoks: too much words for me at this time!
<dholbach> could anybody get the one or other line together for the MOTU report?
<dholbach> just some random lines about stuff you *still can* remember about the last month ;)))
<herve> dholbach: I'll set up a paragraph like I did last time
<herve> but tomorrow
<dholbach> ROCK
* dholbach hugs Herv
<chillywilly> N' ROLL
<herve> does it have to rhyme? :-)
* dholbach hugs chillywilly as well - Daniel was it? :)
<dholbach> hahahah
<dholbach> that would be PRETTY cool
<dholbach> i'd rhyme the rest as well
<chillywilly> anyone run Ubuntu as a server?
<ogra> yep
* chillywilly just spent $10k on servers
<herve> not yet
<chillywilly> and it's not my money!
<herve> I have to migrate my mail system
<dholbach> i think i will keep one debian machine :)
<ogra> i'm not running my mainserver on ubuntu yet...
<chillywilly> $10,620 to be exact
<chillywilly> USD
<chillywilly> me neither
<herve> for what's worth the usd ;-)
<chillywilly> it's debian
<ogra> but have two running here... they run fine....
<\sh> chillywilly: i'm running ubuntu as a server
<\sh> production state
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> 15 more minutes and my weekend starts
<chillywilly> lallala
<\sh> chillywilly: u need some hints how stable it is?
<ogra> chillywilly, all ubuntu.com servers run on ubuntu indeed (imagine the load)
<ivoks> ubuntu is just fine on server
<ivoks> as much as debian is
<ogra> yep, but newer
<chillywilly> just curious
<ivoks> they have same packages
<\sh> the only thing whats missing
<\sh> an actual package for cyrus-imapd
<chillywilly> I should purchase some support contracts
<ivoks> why would anyone want that?!
<ogra> yeah
<\sh> and this is in debian-experimental...it's running on my server3
<herve> ivoks: debian stable != ubuntu stable
<ivoks> get your self a dovecot
<chillywilly> um, cause it id for the company I work for
<chillywilly> is*
<ivoks> herve: i know :)
<dholbach> and another X nearly compiled to the end
<chillywilly> jbailey: Jeffy, how much is a support contract?
<dholbach> FUN :)
<jbailey> chillywilly: How many systems, desktop or servers?
<ivoks> \sh: try dovecot
<chillywilly> 2 servers
<chillywilly> maybe 1 desktop
<\sh> ogra: qinx-1.4 is kde-3.4.1 ready...updated on my ubuntu page ;)
<\sh> ivoks: what is it?
<\sh> something to eat?
<ivoks> \sh: the best imap/pop3 daemon
<jbailey> chillywilly: We have two options for response times, basically standard support and platinum support.
<jbailey> chillywilly: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/supportoptions/paidsupport has the breakdown.
<chillywilly> well, assuming that I don't REALLY want the support I can just get standard ;)
<\sh> ivoks: ah...i'm running cyrus since redhat :) it's working  together with postfix and ssl/tls and everything i need..inclusive mysql
<ogra> \sh, dove = taube, cot = huette (taubenschlag)
<ivoks> \sh: i run postfix ssl/tls too :)
<\sh> ogra: u see,..something to eat ;)
<ogra> nope, the home of the doves
<\sh> ivoks: but not together in one mysql table ;)
<jbailey> chillywilly: Right. =)
<\sh> ogra: but the doves i can eat ;)
<ivoks> \sh: no, but dovecot supports mysql
<\sh> don't take me serious now :)
<chillywilly> $800...that still fits in our budget I think
<ivoks> ah... stay blind :)
<jbailey> chillywilly: That's a useful option for places that are required to get support contracts, and migh thave the odd question here or there, but never at 2am. =)
<chillywilly> cause the servers I just purchase were like $1k less
<\sh> ivoks: i'm not changing right now...i have a 4GB spool of mails...not only for me...so it's better not to change my running system
<ivoks> \sh: i agree
<chillywilly> only think is I did not include it in our recommendation because I had not planned on spending any money whatsoever for software
<chillywilly> thing*
<\sh> but anyways...cu guys tomorrow ... g'night gents
<ivoks> i had 10GB of mailbox style spool
<dholbach> bye \sh, sleep tight
<ogra> night \sh
<herve> I have... hey, 10 MB!
<ivoks> converted it to maildir and installed dovecot in 2-3 hours
<herve> night \sh
<ivoks> never had problems with mail anymore :)
<DanielN> night \sh
<ivoks> \sh: bye :)
<herve> isn't dovecot the default one in fedora?
<jbailey> chillywilly: Right, but in many cases employers expect softare costs to be on top of hardware.  It's always worth asking.
<ivoks> herve: dovecot is quite fresh app
<ivoks> herve: so i think it's not... but, maybe i'm wrong
<ivoks> but, it works like a beauty
<ivoks> no more big loads
<ivoks> no more lost mails
<herve> I'll try
<ivoks> and switch to maildir
<herve> I was looking for a replacement to qmail/vpopmail/bincimap lately
<herve> night all
<ivoks> your server will like you couse of that :)
<DanielN> nicht herve
<ivoks> herve: night
<ogra> night herve
<DanielN> *lol* night
<dholbach> X is ready (gain
<dholbach> (again)
<herve> ivoks: I hope so, it's only a via c3 800!
<dholbach> keep your fingers crossed :)
<herve> dholbach: you fixed it?
<dholbach> no... it just finished building
<herve> ha, just finished building
<ivoks> herve: then maildir is musthave
<herve> ivoks: I already have it
<ivoks> herve: if u need help, contact me
<ivoks> ok then :)
<dholbach> see you (hopefully) in a minute
<herve> ivoks: but procmail config with vhosts and mail delivery were my concerns
<dholbach> *wave*
<herve> ivoks: I was trying to find the perfect match
<herve> which courier didn't seem to fulfill
<herve> s/procmail/postfix
<ivoks> herve: maildir+postfix+amavisd+dovecot+spamassassin+nod32
<ivoks> +razor+clamav...
<herve> looks like what I want
<ivoks> herve: http://www.grad.hr/amavis-stats/
<herve> but no spam+virus filter in the first iteration
<ivoks> every mail goes trough 3 virus scanners
<ivoks> load is allways 0.05
<ivoks> :)
<herve> impressive
<herve> argh! I can't go to bed without knowing if X is fixed!
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> buy WIFI AP :)
<ivoks> then u'll be in bed :)
<herve> I have wifi
<ivoks> then, watch for X from bed :)
<herve> but computerish is "persona non grata" in bed
<ivoks> :)
<herve> there's a time for everything
<ivoks> ok
<herve> ivoks: what is nod32?
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> that's a joke?
<herve> you said that name :-)
<ivoks> you don't know it?
<DanielN> someone knows a good wallpaper adress .. something summerlike maybe? :)
<ivoks> it AV... one of the best, if not the best
<herve> now I do, google found it :-)
<herve> I was searching in packages.debian.org
<ivoks> :)))
<ivoks> it's not free :)
<herve> DanielN: I found nature wallpapers in the "other" category on art.gnome.org
<DanielN> herve: thanks ;)
* herve has a square of grass as a background :-)
<ivoks> i have forest with sign "ubuntu - its coming. can you hear it?"
<ivoks> very very nice
<herve> I fetch the art.gnome.org rss feed, nice feature
<ivoks> DanielN: http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=264&original=1&c=5
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-04
<herve> wth, I need an account to see a forum?
<ivoks> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=180&c=5
<ivoks> check this one :)
<ivoks> herve: yeah :(
<herve> dholbach not coming back...
<DanielN> thanks for link .. i should register first ;)
<ivoks> wait
<herve> second link is ok
<ivoks> i can upload pics...
<DanielN> ahh
<ivoks> second is my wallpaper :)
<DanielN> :)
<herve> ok, I saw 264
<herve> quite nice
<herve> would be better without the ubuntu branding ;-)
<ivoks> http://u4.eset.com/download/lms/nod32lms-2.15-1.i386.deb
<ivoks> they even have .deb package :)
<DanielN> mhm .. it's ok for me ;)
<ivoks> time to go to bed
<herve> that suspens is killing me!
<herve> night ivoks
<ivoks> :))
<DanielN> mhm .. freesleepers inside ;)
<DanielN> argh ..
<ivoks> herve: what's with X?
<herve> I *really* want it repaired :-)
<herve> too late, end of the song
<herve> ++
<DanielN> attempting to sleep too ;)
<DanielN> good night all
<dholbach> grmbl
<dholbach> what were those funky font symlinks i had to make?
<dholbach> hm no.. the fonts are in order
<dholbach> brb
<dholbach> IT WORKS!
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> good night everyone
* HiddenWolf moans about mono debs
<ogra> HiddenWolf, see topic
<HiddenWolf> That's why I do it. ;)
* HiddenWolf grins
* HiddenWolf wouldn't know mono if it slapped him in the face
* HiddenWolf gives ogra a big hug of appreciation, then goes to find his bed to sober up
<tseng> rage.
<tseng> ogra: do you have a howto on writing manpages?
<tseng> my boo deb needs three
<ajmitch> write them in docbook, and use docbook2man?
<ajmitch> I think that's what dholbach suggested at one point
<tseng> i dont speak docbook either
<tseng> oh well
<ogra> tseng, take te .ex file and check it with man -l <file>
<tseng> the .ex from debhelper?
<tseng> ok..
<tseng> manpage.xml.ex nice
<ogra> or any other manpage...
<tseng> bwa, sections
<tseng> i have a compiler, a shell, and an interpreter..
<tseng> all 5?
<ogra> man man ?
<tseng> oh
<tseng> section 1
<ajmitch> ogra: great, I see you spoke to herve about MOTUPython :)
<ajmitch> thanks, I hadn't seen him round
<tseng> eh its easier imo just to use the manpage.1.ex
<tseng> @ ajmitch
<ogra> ajmitch, nice :) you filled the page
* ogra welcomes the new Python teamleader
* ajmitch was coerced :P
<ogra> heh
<ajmitch> herve can have the job if he wants :)
<ajmitch> unless we have another big transition there shouldn't be as much coordinating to do
<ogra> probably
<ogra> lets see what happens :)
<ogra> the edubuntu guys have some interest, they were the ones that asked several times about the python team
<ajmitch> either way I'll hopefully have spare time for ubuntu after this week :)
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch> yes, I'd better upload those c++ libs that are approved & fix the others :)
<Burgundavia> \sh, you pinged?
<Burgundavia> \sh, if you need to contact me, you can email me at corey.burger@gmail.com
<mgalvin> hi all
<crimsun> 'lo
<mgalvin> so to start my semi trial by fire I am trying out building ogre which lead me to have to instll nvidia-cg-toolkit
<mgalvin> i built a deb of it from the rpm... first has anyone else already done this, if not would anyone be interested in trying it out
<crimsun> I don't know of anyone else having done as much, but be sure to note your progress on the wiki
<mgalvin> i have the nvidia cgc deb and will hopefully have an ogre deb soon
<Lathiat> mgalvin: what is it?
<mgalvin> the nvidia compile and runtime
<mgalvin> at http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cg_toolkit.html
<mgalvin> it is one of the packages ogre uses
<Lathiat> interesting
<mgalvin> as an aspiring maintainer, i would love feedback on this stuff if anyone has spare time to take a look
<mgalvin> I am putting the nvidia-cg-toolkit deb on my webserver now, uploading...
<mgalvin> the stuff I have been (and will be) trying out is at
<mgalvin> http://www.simplifiedcomplexity.com/ubuntu/packages/hoary/i386/
<mgalvin> if anyone is interesting in taking a peek
<mgalvin> l8r all
<chillywilly> anyone ever read on lisp by paul graham?
<crimsun> parts, I need to reread it
<chillywilly> lisp is pretty cool
<crimsun> it certainly has its uses
<chillywilly> please don't say AI or "expert systems" ;)
<crimsun> those are the classically cited ones, yes ;)
<chillywilly> gah
<\sh> morning
<\sh> siretart: added
<\sh> strike dar build successfully on i386, ppc, amd64 and ia64..my first upload worked ;)
<ogra> Accepted dar 2.2.1-1ubuntu2 (source)
<ogra> woah
<ogra> applause \sh !!
* Amaranth added another totally awesome feature to smeg :)
<Amaranth> little up and down arrows next to the menus and entries to allow you to change their position
<DanielN> is pbuilder really the only thing i need to build a breezy chroot for building packages ?
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> ogra: and dar and libibtk compiled on _all_ archs, i'm really happy about it :)
<Amaranth> nice
<Amaranth> but what is dar? :)
<Amaranth> darcs?
<ogra> \sh, be aware, you'll mutate to the upload bitch for the next days
<\sh> ogra: first  i will resolv all my packages ;)
<\sh> ogra: but u can review qinx ;)
* Amaranth jumps up and down
<Amaranth> am i here? :)
<\sh> haha
<ogra> Amaranth, apt-cache show dar
<ivoks> ah...
<ogra> its boring...
<\sh> Amaranth: don't bother about dar..i don't know what this thing is doing...i'm compiling only and trying to fix.. ;)
<ivoks> bacula is the best backup system
<ogra> \sh, its a backup tool
<\sh> ogra: well..ok :)
<\sh> coffee now :)
<ivoks> ogra: if you are bored, you could review my package :)
<ivoks> and maybe upload it :)
<\sh> ogra: I just went shopping at 9:00am..and when I came back i was wet as hell...this weather is not normal
<ivoks> \sh: wet as hell :) hot as icecube :)
<ogra> hey guys, i'm just preparing my trip to GUADEC.... (probably i'll pull down some packages to review offline on the train)
<ogra> lol
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> you could review mine... it's simple :)
<Amaranth> ogra: Trying to catch up to seb?
<ivoks> that wifi-radar is there for ages :)
* Amaranth wonders how long it will take to get smeg into universe
<ogra> Amaranth, naah... i'm not a packaging king, will never be as good as him....
<Amaranth> ogra: Just package lots of Python things, some of those can be 5 line cdbs scripts.
<Amaranth> I mean some of those can only take 5 line cdbs scripts.
<\sh> ah...the first coffee of the day
<\sh> re ogra
<\sh> ok...my evening is also planned
<\sh> meeting with sherif at 3pm, visiting saturn at hansaplatz, meeting up with george and some nice relaxing time and brain resetting time in cologne :)
<ogra> \sh, send greetings to them....
<\sh> ogra: will do :)
<ogra> great :)
<\sh> ogra: he wanted to make a suprise visit to egypt this weekend...but he couldn't find a back flight for sunday :(
<\sh> ogra: u know that he is engaged now?
<ogra> george ?
<\sh> ogra: sherif
<ogra> oh, i thought he was married already
<\sh> ogra: no...he went onto holiday to egypt visiting family and came back engaged :)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> ogra: his fiance will come to germany in 3 months...:) they want to go and marry here in .de :) he's so cute right now ;)
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> my best whishes :=
<ogra> :)
<\sh> ah and greetings from bran :)
<\sh> i forgot
<ogra> how is he with his new job ?
<\sh> and bran said: congrats ... original quote: "I knew Oliver would make it just like he wanted to" :)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> ogra: he's busy ... 3 days in rosenheim, 2 days in duesseldorf and then one week in israel
<ogra> fun
<\sh> he's travelling a lot...but he's quite happy with it...
<\sh> last time he was visiting ISH as a bigband consultant ;)
<DanielN> building hoary chroot now :)
<\sh> i need to find out how i can make 2 pbuilder envs one for breezy and one for hoary ;)
<\sh> ogra: and if u need a new nifty nice vacuum without those filter bags...praktiker has one for 29.95  1600W :) I bought one yesterday
<DanielN> first i must understand how pbuilder works ...
<\sh> hmm...njam packaged for breezy
<\sh> who is responsible for MOTUGames?
<\sh> siretart?
<ogra> yep
<\sh> ah nice :)
<\sh> siretart: ping :)
<HiddenWolf> \sh, it's saturday, be nice
<\sh> ogra: i'm closing all cxx trans bugs for the packages compiled successfully on all archs...is it ok?
<ogra> absolutely
<\sh> ogra: thx
<\sh> HiddenWolf: come on...it's saturday, it's damn hot outside..what's best to sit in front of your computer and working...with a nice bottle of beer next to u ;)
<HiddenWolf> \sh, wish I could. I've got a corporate finance exam coming up.
<\sh> HiddenWolf: uh...nasty
<HiddenWolf> 26 degrees inside, and I'm trying to focus on a book. :P
<herve> morning!
<DanielN> damn .. want to have a lap so i could sit on the terrass
<\sh> hey herve
* \sh would like to be in paris now...sitting on the stairs of scare coeur, drinking red wine, and listening to those guys playing guitar ;) 
<ogra> scare coeur, hmmm
<\sh> sacre ;)
<ogra> who are they scring ?
<ogra> scaring even :)
<DanielN> sorry i know it's hot today, but one little question: i updated pbuilder to breezy now .. and what am i doing next? :)
<\sh> hello to my friend freud ;)
<\sh> DanielN: sudo pbuilder build <your package>.dsc
<\sh> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PbuilderHowto
<herve> paris by this time? breathing pollution and ozon...
<\sh> if you don't have it: cd <your debianized source tree> ; debuild -S ; cd ..
* herve will climb a moutain and breath from here ;-)
<\sh> herve: i don't mind...nice girls, small belts ;)
<\sh> herve: where r u living in france?
<DanielN> and then pbuilder build package.dsc ?
<\sh> yepp
<herve> \sh, grenoble
<herve> although my whois says nice :-)
<\sh> herve: grenoble?
<\sh> herve: i think grenoble is a partner city of dortmund
<\sh> we had some exchange students from grenoble some time :)
<herve> I don't see much german students here
<herve> mostly americans
<\sh> herve: sorry..it wasn't dortmund, it was essen-steele :)
<\sh> another city where I was living and going to school :)
<herve> it's near the french frontier no?
<\sh> no..it's in the heart of northrhine-westfalia
<herve> essen was telling me something
<\sh> it's twin-city of grenoble
<herve> yes you told :-)
<\sh> i think the "helene-lange-realschule" was establishing a student exchange with grenoble long time ago
<herve> but I was not born in grenoble
<herve> my home city is a twin city of boblingen
<\sh> funny thing is, why i'm always confused with essen and dortmund :) dortmund is my birth place..in essen I was living for 5 years, and went to the "helene-lange-realschule"..after this school time, I moved back to dortmund-hombruch and was visiting the "helene-lange-gymnasium" ;)
<herve> I can understand you're confusing, I do ;-)
<\sh> at my age, it's allright ;)
<\sh> hmm..strange
<\sh> my cpu is changing freqs when it's getting to hot
<siretart> \sh: pong
<\sh> but it shouldn't
<\sh> siretart: nice to see u
<\sh> siretart: have a package for MOTUGames
<siretart> \sh: :) - what is it?
<ogra> \sh, why shouldnt it ?
<tseng> hi
<\sh> ogra: because i disabled speed change in bios
<\sh> siretart: njam
<siretart> it's way too hot here.. just came back from a friend helped moving.. puh
<ogra> \sh, did you also disable powernowd ?
<ogra> \sh, you know that the BIOS is ignored by linux...
<\sh> siretart: that "fitness" i had yesterday
<\sh> http://njam.sourceforge.net/
<\sh> ogra: i don't think so
<ogra> \sh, powernowd cares for the frequency and voltage
<\sh> uhh...
<ogra> man powernowd
<siretart> \sh: looks great. how did you get attention to that game?
<ogra> you can adjust the OPTIONS= line in /etc/init.d/powernowd and just restart it
<\sh> siretart: ubuntu-de...someone wrote a "howto" install the precompiled binary on ubuntuusers
<Chris> \sh, i know who it was :D
<siretart> ah, they are asing for help someone doing a package.. let's see.
<\sh> Chris: ah :)
<\sh> siretart: wait..i'll upload it to my webpage
<\sh> siretart: you can take it over it's compiled successfully on breezy i386
<\sh> siretart: and I will report to upstream that there  is a ubuntu package..
<ogra> siretart, where is your first upload, we're waiting ;)
<\sh> Chris: u see, it's done :)
<Chris> :)
<\sh> ah yes, siretart key is added ;)
<DanielN> mhm .. shouldn't gpg 1.4.x be used with pbuilder ?
<ogra> DanielN, pbuilder doesnt use gpg at all, you sign the _source_ before you run pbuilder
<siretart> ogra: I just got home and I'm sweating like a warhhog.. relax  :)
<\sh> DanielN: debuild -S is asking for your key..not pbuilder
<DanielN> ogra: ok. but why i see then packages, signed with gpg 1.4 outside?
<ogra> siretart, sad, then i'll miss your first one ....
<siretart> I'm on my way
<ogra> siretart, i'm on my way to the train... to stuttgart
<Nafallo> hmm, shouldn't serpentine depend on libnautilus-burn-dev?
<\sh> siretart: i saw warthogs in their natural enviroment :)
<Nafallo> or atleast libnautilus-burn2
<siretart> ok. keychain uploaded
<ogra> Nafallo, nope, on libnautilus-burn-python (or however its called)
<ogra> which in turn should depend on it
<Nafallo> ogra: hmm, it doesn't.
<ogra> Nafallo, i'll look into it as soon as i'm back from guadec
<Nafallo> ogra: k
<ogra> Nafallo, i want to proote it to main in the default desktop
<siretart> \sh: ah great. will you upload njam then or do you want me to look at it first?
<Nafallo> ogra: yay! :-)
<ogra> prmote even
<ogra> ARGH !!
<ogra> pro mo te
<Nafallo> hehe
<\sh> siretart: it will be a new package...it has to be reviewed
<Amaranth> what ever happened to mono getting into main?
<\sh> siretart: but you can have a look at it :) http://ubuntu.linux-server.org/?path=njam
* Nafallo can't find that pythonpackage either ;-)
<\sh> siretart: i will have a second test build on hoary...to check if it's running without any hassle...or if I have to adjust a bit on the package
<Nafallo> python-nautilus?
<Amaranth> and/or can i build my own libdbus-cil that works?
<ogra> Nafallo, look at the serpentine homepage....
<Nafallo> ogra: k. the pythonthingie you talked about isn't packaged yet I guess then ;)
<ogra> Amaranth, nope, not anymore
<Amaranth> it's not happening or i can't build my own?
<ogra> Nafallo, since people alredy burn with it, it must be there
<siretart> hm. how to tell dput to also upload the orig.tar.gz?
<ogra> debuild -S -sa
<ogra> if you build the source package
<elmo> or just use an ftp client by hand and upload it
<siretart> ah. thanks
<Nafallo> ogra: if you say so. I can't find it with apt-cache anyway ;-)
<ogra> Nafallo, its included in python2.4-gnome2-extras
<ogra> (libnautilus-burn-python)
<Nafallo> ogra: ahh, doh :-).
<ogra> Nafallo,  apt-cache show python2.4-gnome2-extras
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> libnautilus-burn1
<ogra> <-- shower
<Nafallo> that's why it can't find my empty cd ;-)
<siretart> I also fixed "rlog" (CXX Trasition): https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11222. Are this 'transition' uploads reviewed first, or may I proceed with uploading?
<siretart> I dont want to do anything wrong
<\sh> siretart: attach the debdiff output to the bug entry
<\sh> debdiff <origpackage>.dsc <newubunturevwithrenaming>.dsc > <package>.diff
<siretart> \sh: http://siretart.tauware.de/ubuntu-packages/rlog/patch
<siretart> but will also attach to the report
<\sh> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11183 take it as an example
<\sh> so doko or we can take a look on the patch itself
<Amaranth> what do you do if it's an application?
<\sh> Amaranth: i think they will be uploaded automatically after all libs are in the tree
<Amaranth> fix the compiler errors, fix the dependencies, and upload a new ubuntuX version?
<\sh> Amaranth: but there r some kde stuff which has to be altered manually
<Amaranth> ah
<siretart> \sh: ok. will do
<Amaranth> how far along are the libs?
<Amaranth> i know universe just got a massive ammount of c2 libs all of the sudden
<siretart> Amaranth: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList is the current status, I think
<Amaranth> like one day it seemed that people weren't even trying, the next about 100 libs were showing as New In Repository in synaptic
<Amaranth> who should i hug for that? :)
<\sh> Amaranth: http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/22-Breaking-News-python-kde3-and-CXX-Transition.html
<Amaranth> doko did it?
<\sh> siretart: check comment on your diff :)
* Amaranth hugs doko 
<Amaranth> awesome!
<siretart> gnarf. thanks
<\sh> siretart: and see, i just found a bug in njam package ;)
<siretart> \sh: the Makefile for njam seems to be b0rked
<\sh> siretart: well...yes, i will make a patch and include DESTDIR magic and fix some symlinks stuff
<Amaranth> are there any numbers (percent done, etc) or should i do a little screenscraping and come up with them?
<siretart> \sh: I think the makefile itself should be rewritten. it installs levels and datafils to /usr/games/...
<\sh> doing it right now :)
<siretart> \sh: Better would be to install data and game files either to /usr/{share,lib}/njam, and let /usr/games/njam just be a shell wrapper, as supposed
<\sh> siretart: check /usr/games
<\sh> all gnome games are laying there
<\sh> oh no..only the bins
<siretart> jepp
<\sh> so u mean: /usr/share/njam/* ?
<siretart> depending whether the are architecture independent or not
<siretart> if architecture depending, it must go to /usr/lib/njam. and now lets hope the binary accepts that
<\sh> splitting up the package into arch and arch-indep?
<siretart> no. that would make thinks only more complicated as needed, imho
<\sh> ok...letme check the data files...and I will do a testbuild on hoary, only to see if it's running as expected
<\sh> ok, the data are indep...
<siretart> gnarf. the binary expect data relative to itself
<\sh> what?
<\sh> fck...u r right
<\sh> i'll have to patch the source
<\sh> hmmm
<siretart> look at njam.cpp, line 87
<\sh> yeah..saw it
<\sh> nasty
<\sh> ok..what about this
<siretart> wah, now i understand (after thinking 2minutes about it)
<siretart> that code "guesses" the location of the binary inspecting argv[0] 
<siretart> gnarf
<siretart> lets replace that with a simple 'chdir("/usr/share/njam/");'
<\sh> siretart: hmmm
<DanielN> \sh: your local apt repo howto doesn't work here
<\sh> siretart: what about njam.h: #define UBUNTU_GAMES_DATA_DIR "/usr/share/njam/"
<\sh> and put this constant in front of the fopens
<\sh> or to be more flexible
<siretart> \sh: that would be bloat the patch. better "chdir(DATA_DIR);" and #define that
<\sh> #define UBUNTU_GAMES_DATA_DIR "@gamesdatalocation@"  and in debian/rules i make a sed -e 's/\@gamesdatalocation\@/\/usr\/share\/games\//'
<\sh> DanielN: what?
<\sh> DanielN: please comment on the page, what went wrong :)
<DanielN> if i want upload, packages went to incoming.. and no packages.gz and sources.gz and so on is created ..
<\sh> DanielN: then something is wrong :)
<\sh> DanielN: check debian/changelog if it's the right distribution
<DanielN> it is
<DanielN> breezy
<\sh> DanielN: mini-dinstall configured?
<DanielN> yep
<\sh> hmm..here it's working fine...:(
<DanielN> this message happens: Not running dinstall.
<DanielN> \sh: *lol* found it .. i wrote "archiv" instead of +e :)
<\sh> DanielN: *phew*
(Nafallo/#ubuntu-motu) !seen xine-amd64-user-with-mp3soundfiles
(siretart/#ubuntu-motu) Is anyone using a thinkpad with breezy here? I reanabled xosd support and would like to have it tested. I tested it with recompiling on hoary, here, it works
* Nafallo adds: running breezy
<DanielN> are there any howtows, to build from CVS ?
<siretart> DanielN: well. there are a lot of tutorials on using cvs in the web
<ivoks> hola
<siretart> hi ivoks
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> just washed my focus, put glycerin on tiers... it shines like a star... ready for trip tomorrow :)
<ivoks> three babes and me :)
<ivoks> hm.. i din't get response from mako yet... :(
<DanielN> ***Error***: You must have automake >= 1.6 installed
<DanielN>   to build resapplet.
<DanielN> :(
<ivoks> hi
<DanielN> \sh you're a really bad reviewer ;)
<siretart> DanielN: I made other observations ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> siretart: are you motu? :)
<ivoks> damn... so much people uses wifi-radar in hoary
<ivoks> and it still isn't aproved for breezy :(
<ivoks> that makes me sad :(
<siretart> ivoks: since a few days. shall I review your package?
<ivoks> yeah :)
<ivoks> please...
<siretart> ivoks: where is your source package?
<ivoks> i'm still waiting mako's approval of my membership... :(
<ivoks> siretart: www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu
<ivoks> siretart: wifi-radar
<tseng> have you been to the CC?
<tseng> mako cant approve you by himself
<tseng> he can only check off your signed CoC
<ivoks> i was
<ivoks> i got status
<ivoks> i signed CoC and send it over email to him
<ivoks> kamion and elmo agreed :)
<ivoks> maybe i did something wrong :(
<tseng> it sounds like you are already approved..
<siretart> is this a NEW package?
<ivoks> siretart: yes
<ivoks> tseng: ok :)
<ivoks> tseng: i tought he will reply or something...
<tseng> no
<ivoks> ok then :)
<ivoks> tseng: so, as member, what privliges i get? :))
<tseng> you can vouche for new members at CC
<ivoks> ok, that's nice
<tseng> someday there is supposed to be @ubuntu.com mail forwards for members
<tseng> who knows
<ivoks> nice :)
<ivoks> siretart: so...? it's small package :)
<siretart> ivoks: still looking at it :)
<siretart> I'm note quite happy about the copyright statement
<ivoks> why?
<siretart> but this is rather an upstream issue. Have a look at this: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/12/msg00007.html
<ivoks> ah, i should put whole GPL in it? :)
<siretart> no! a reference is much better
<tseng> well
<tseng> a reference is much better if the file is already existing on a base debian install
<siretart> upstream should read the section "HOW TO APPLY THE GPL"
<siretart> but IANAL
<siretart> hm. "default" interface is eth2, yes?
<ivoks> yes
<siretart> hm. so the user would have to edit the config file for setting it to his real divcename.
<siretart> for me that would be ath0, for my GF it would be eth1.
<ivoks> yes, i'm thinking to add gui option for that
<ivoks> or...
<ivoks> it should ask while installing
<siretart> I'm also thinking how to improve this..
<siretart> asking for default value using debconf would be the options of choice in debian, I think
<ivoks> yeah..
<siretart> in ubuntu, i'm not sure..
<ivoks> app runs as root
<ivoks> so it shouldn't alove to much freedom :)
<ivoks> alove?! omg.. allow
<ivoks> so, in ubuntu, we don't ask anything with debhelper?
<tseng> we try not to ask questions in packages in base install
<ivoks> i guess i could do a preinstall script that will run iwconfig to find out wifi-card
<siretart> thats what I'm thinking of
<tseng> or in desktop
<siretart> I'm thinking about a regex for auto detection
<ivoks> yeah
<ivoks> with iwconfig
<ivoks> so it would have predepend on iwconfig
<ivoks> it would run in and find out what interface user is using
<ivoks> any objections? :)
<siretart> better let's get that discussed on #ubuntu-devel
<ivoks> ok
<siretart> I really like your package. It is really a great contribution to ubuntu
<ivoks> :) ok, not that great :)
<ivoks> i like it so i tought... let's make a package
* tseng test builds a mono with nptl for upload
<ivoks> ok... i could do autodetection before it loads
<ivoks> i could implement that in wifi-radar.sh
<ivoks> wich is in menu
<ivoks> iwconfig 2> /dev/null | grep IEEE | cut -d' ' -f1
<siretart> and what happens if 2 wifi cards are installed?
<ivoks> it should use only one
<ivoks> first one
<ivoks> and if user desiers another one, then he will need to change config
<herve> re
<ivoks> or... just to configure it while installing
<ivoks> hi herve
<ivoks> but, that's not ubuntu way :)
<siretart> hm. thats right. wicked..
<ivoks> ok, i'll figure out something later
<ivoks> and i will upload revision
<ivoks> ok?
<ivoks> then you'll look it again
<ivoks> btw, i did copyright file
<ivoks> it isn't in source package...
<ivoks> siretart: what should i change?
<tseng> oh, i got my hoary cds today
<siretart> ivoks: I dont really see any grave mistakes in your package.
<siretart> ivoks: have any other motus reviewd it yet?
<herve> tseng, where are you located, roughly?
<tseng> Philly, PA
<tseng> very roughly
<herve> siretart, his wifi tool?
<siretart> yeah
<herve> tseng, I guess it means united states? (that's why I didn't ask for details ;-))
<tseng> yes
<herve> siretart, last time I reviewed it, it was ok for me
<herve> but I guess it has changed a lot
<siretart> herve: I just looked at it, I also think its nice
<siretart> are there any ppc users/motus here?
<herve> not me
<herve> but a mac mini, some day... hmm :-)
<siretart> :)
<siretart> I uploaded vcdimager, and It got autobuilt on amd64 and i386, not on ppc
<siretart> because the testsuite failed!
<siretart> and comparing with the buildlogs from debian, I dont see why it fails :(
<ivoks> herve: didn't change anything, but will now
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> herve: it will discover wifi interface and configure it self for it
<herve> more ubuntu compliant? :-)
<ivoks> so.. should i change revision or leave it as inital release?
<ivoks> yeah, more "for dummies" :)
<herve> hmm...
<ivoks> don't get me wrong :)
<herve> it doesn't really matter since your package never ended in an official repository
<ivoks> ok
<herve> but if some users are already using it
<ivoks> then it will stay official relase
<herve> it would be "honest" to bump the version
<ivoks> ok :)
<herve> and with 0ubuntu1
<herve> for the package
<ivoks> i'll be honest then
<ivoks> gr... i created postinst script and how do i call it from rules?
<ivoks> i'm looking at example, but it's with cdbs :(
<siretart> dont call postinst yourself, let dpkg call it for you
<ivoks> so i just create script?
<ivoks> it will call it automagicaly?
<ivoks> :)
<herve> at install
<herve> +time
<ivoks> ?
<herve> !
<tseng> $
<siretart> jupp
<herve> ivoks: http://women.alioth.debian.org/wiki/index.php/English/MaintainerScripts
<herve> not easy to search on their site
<ivoks> all right, it works :)
<ivoks> new version uploaded
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> one more change...
<herve> hehe
<ivoks>  /etc/wifi-radar.sh should have 600 permissons
<ivoks> not 644
<ivoks> s/sh/conf
<siretart> ivoks: why? are passwords saved there?
<herve> a script with no executable bit?
<ivoks> herve: it's .conf, not .sh :)
<ivoks> siretart: keys for WEP
<siretart> ah, well. thats right..
<ivoks> hm..
<ivoks> i should change perm in postinst?
<ivoks> i can't do that with rules?
<siretart> ivoks: ah, that brings me a suggestion
<siretart> ivoks: I dont think that /etc/wifi-radar.sh should be a conffile
<ivoks> :)
<siretart> ivoks: it is a configuration file, but not a conffile
<ivoks>  its /etc/wifi-radar.conf
<siretart> argl, I'm talking about /etc/wifi-radar.conf
<ivoks> wifi-radar has profiles
<siretart> so it should imo not be installed via debian/rules but via postinst
<ivoks> it stores profiles in that dir
<ivoks> ah... ok...
<siretart> do you understand the difference?
<ivoks> not really...
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> confflie are files with something allready in it?
<siretart> (im not really sure if I got it right). Basically it differs when it comes to upgrades:
* herve checking the policy for a reminder
<ivoks> siretart: right!
<ivoks> upgrade will not erase conffile
<ivoks> that's right
<siretart> when dpkg sees that the new package having the file, it will ask the user what to do
<ivoks> hm.. wifi-radar.conf must not be changed!
<ivoks> because all profiles are in it
<siretart> in this specific case, we (persumably) always want to preserve the user edited config file
<ivoks> siretart: that's why it has to be in rules
<siretart> ivoks: ok, then thats clear. /etc/wifi-radar.conf MUST NOT be installed via debian/rules
<ivoks> wait...
<ivoks> it i put it in postinst
<ivoks> it will be erased
<ivoks> if it stays in rules, it will ask user what to do
<ivoks> and not overwrite it
<siretart> but these dpkg interruptions are really annoying.
<ivoks> ok, i could check for file before copying...
<siretart> I think this is handled somewhere in the debian policy
<ivoks> no! it stays in rules
<ivoks> if i put new feauters in that file
<ivoks> i wouldn't be able to implement them
<ivoks> via dpkg, it will suggest diff, overwrite or leave it as is
<siretart> the configure part should be able to convert the current config to the new format, if necessary
<ivoks> or u'm thinking wrong?
<siretart> there was recently some discussion on debian-mentors, I think
<siretart> about this
<ivoks> well... ok
<ivoks> it's big chance i wouldn't add anything to that file
<ivoks> it will allways be possible to insert it via sed
<ivoks> under global
<ivoks> ok, it goes in postinst
<siretart> this thread might be relevant: http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2004/10/msg00128.html
<siretart> afk - brb
<ivoks> for now, let it be in rules...
<ivoks> in another revision i will consider something else
<siretart> right
<siretart> lets here some comments from more experienced maintainers
<herve> sometimes I woner
<herve> wonder if conffiles are an official feature
<herve> the policy only cites it once
<herve> and no index
<siretart> herve: I never understood this dpkg conffile handling correctly, too
<ivoks> look! people in #ubuntu.hr :) O M G! :)
<siretart> that means, I know what dpkg does with conffiles. but I'm not sure about all consequences
<siretart> ivoks: sorry, I dont speak your language ;) I'm also having problems reading a hungarian street map ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> hm... that's very bad postinst script :(
<ivoks> echo "interface=$WLAN" >> /etc/wifi-radar.conf
<ivoks> this just isn't right...
<herve> at first, check if it is not already defined
<herve> remember maintainer scripts must be run several times without incident
<ivoks> it has set -e
<ivoks> something else bothers me...
<ivoks> if there allready is wifi-radar.conf
<ivoks> this should be initial release
<ivoks> oh... damn... i'm confused
<ivoks> bye
<siretart> bye ivoks
<crimmy> l8r
<herve> have a nice trip
<ivoks> thanx :)
<siretart> well, http://www.uk.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html#s-config-files is the relevant section of the policy for conffiles
<ivoks> ok :)
<ivoks> me again :)
<ivoks> siretart: i changed wifi-radar
<siretart> ivoks: http://www.uk.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html#s-config-files is the relevant section in the policy, I looked it up for you
<siretart> re btw ;)
<ivoks> then it's configuration file, not conffile
<siretart> yeah
<ivoks> The maintainer scripts must not alter a conffile of any package, including the one the scripts belong to.
<ivoks> that's it...
<ivoks> ok, then this version of wifi-radar package is final
<siretart> ivoks: yes, thats gonna make upgrades more convinient
<ivoks> yeah
<ivoks> and if i need to append or inster/change something
<ivoks> it's easily with sed
<MarioOs> hello
<ivoks> bok :)
<ivoks> MarioOs: we are at ubuntu-hr now
<MarioOs> english only, please
<ivoks> is this turkish? :)
<MarioOs> yup, turkish it is
<siretart> ivoks: I never used it before, but I think ucf could be handy here
<MarioOs> why not hr.ubuntu
<ivoks> siretart: step by step :)
<siretart> ivoks: :)
<ivoks> so, you are fine with package?
<ivoks> heh...
<ivoks> fluxbox guy
<MarioOs> whats wrong with fluxbox
<ivoks> bye all
<ivoks> see you tomorrow
<MarioOs> bye
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-05
<jeff25> heh
<jeff25> I just made fluxbox-0.9.13.deb for hoary
<jeff25> with no bugs!
<jeff25> it's fast as hell too
<herve> nighty night!
<\sh> re
<trulux> ajmitch: really?
<ajmitch> ?
<trulux> ajmitch: hmmm, It sounds like today is the best day to fsck me or something alike! :D
<trulux> ajmitch: pappy-, tseng, you, any one wants more fun?
<tseng> no, I dont
<trulux> ajmitch: last thing before I go for the rest of time:
<tseng> I want to be able to say what I want in a +s channel and have it stay there
<ajmitch> why drag -motu into it now?
<trulux> once a time, a smart man said that those who were limited in certain conditions, and suffered the feeling of such limitations, even if they were enemies, would get tovgether against a growing entity that made their limitations even more clear and notable
<trulux> and they killed the man who had the empire in his hands. again, humans do the same mistake again
<trulux> now I must have real work done
<trulux> have a nice day you all
<ajmitch> good bye
<trulux> ajmitch: yes, just taking my marbles
<trulux> looks like I've been messing around with the wrong people ;)
<trulux> I need French people, really
<trulux> they keep close to the poit and not suck as others do when real things are going on
<trulux> lah
<\sh> g'night
<trulux> \sh: I'll keep working a few kenrel stuff here and coding poc for my LSM 2005 speech, found a friendly and very skillful French guy to work with for it
* trulux chuckles
<trulux> ajmitch: let's keep personal stuff out of the way. how's it going anyways?
<trulux> we need the UI stuff done anyways
<trulux> \sh: looks like I will end giving a fuck to all the distro related stuff, and keep my upstream work...
<trulux> heh
<ajmitch> hmm, he didn't even give me a chance to reply :)
<mgalvin> hi all
<mgalvin> what might be a good/the best way to go about packaging an app the is already complied
<mgalvin> i packaged the nvidia-cg-toolkit which comes already in bin form
<mgalvin> i created a deb from the rpm for now, but I am curious about what the recommended method would be to package the deb the right way from the tarball
<mgalvin> also in reg lib packages, should the pkg-config files go in the lib or in lib-dev?
<ogra> http://www.kofler.cc/ubuntu.html
<ogra> !!!!!
<crimmy> heh
<ogra> kofler is the best german linux author ever.... its just impressing
<crimmy> :)
<siretart> great! :)
<siretart> morning, btw ;)
<siretart> how to prevent pbuilder to cleanup the buildplace after failiure?
<\sh> --preserve-buildplace
<siretart> thnx
<siretart> huh? cp: cannot create regular file `/var/cache/pbuilder/build//etc/hosts': No such file or directory
<siretart> somethings very weird going on here
<siretart>               It will clean up the build place on failure, or after a successful build.
<siretart> so not that what I wanted..
<\sh> hmmm.
<siretart> experimenting with hooks now
<siretart> hooks worked, I forgot libxinerama-dev :(
<\sh> siretart: how?
<siretart> \sh: installed a hook with "sleep 600"
<\sh> ah :) understand :)
<\sh> updating my new packages to breezy
<DanielN> morning guys :)
<siretart> hi DanielN
<\sh> hey DanielN
<tseng> hi
<\sh> moins tseng
<\sh> argl...daniel removed my voice on -devel
<tseng> he did warn you.
<\sh> tseng: i told him it was the last thing i said :) and now its over..period.
<tseng> eh.
<\sh> and I'm not blaiming him ... it was my fault..
<tseng> hi ogra!
<ogra> hey tseng
<tseng> we have __thread :)
<ogra> yeah !!!
<\sh> moins ogra
<ogra> hi \sh
<tseng> " Fix db2 dllmap" hmm i dont remember what this is
<ogra> heh, moins ? i'm up since 7
<ogra> tseng, at least its fixed ;)
<tseng> its not afaik
<tseng>          <dllmap dll="db2cli" target="libdb2_36.so"/>
<\sh> ogra: i was up at 10;)
<ogra> lazy guy
<ogra> :)
<\sh> ogra: brain reset yesterday :) and new nifty toys :)
<tseng> we dont seem to depend on libdb2
<\sh> lemme build this kvim replacement named yzis
<tseng>  /lib/libdb.so.3 ugh wth is this
* ogra wonders if he should go to http://2005.guadec.org/schedule/gnometalks.html#gtksharp
<tseng> that sounds fun
<tseng> it would wizz past me though, i am not an OOP guy at all
<ogra> i'm not really intrested... but the other things are even less tempting....
<\sh> ogra: please go and inform me later about the results...i think this is a much nicer attempt then gtkmm ;)
<\sh> ok..njam is now ready to publish :)
<ogra> \sh, i'm not really intrested in mono programming, only in packaging, i'll stay with python ;)
<ogra> but its probably helpful to know some gtk# for fixing bugs in the packages, so i'll go
<tseng> BenM and I are going to fix *every* gtk# bug
<tseng> :P
<\sh> siretart: ping
<ogra> tseng, even the ones in the software ?
<tseng> heh.
<tseng> we will start by submitting dllmap bugs upstream
<tseng> those are the most annoying to packagers
<ogra> ok, i ,need to find some lunch to survive the day.... i'll be here later again....
<tseng> cya
<ogra> bye
<tseng> holy crap i can search on malone
<tseng> :D
<Amaranth> miguel keynote in 30 minutes
<Amaranth> woo
<tseng> hm i should try the fluendo stream
<Amaranth> that's what i'm on
<Amaranth> like i could actually afford to go, pfft
<tseng> what room?
<tseng> oh
<tseng> duh.
<Amaranth> the one that says it's for keynotes ;)
<tseng> wth
<tseng> how do i open the stream in totem?
<Amaranth> it says how
<tseng> i dont want a bunch of java/activex crap
<tseng> ah oh that page
<Amaranth> you have to jump through hoops
<Amaranth> http://stream.fluendo.com:8900/
<tseng> totem plugin ++
<Amaranth> had that, trashed my prolile
<Amaranth> what's the symlink again?
<tseng> the what?
<Amaranth> to symlink the totem plugin into ~/.mozilla/plugins so it works
<tseng> i did no such thing.
<Nafallo> kewl
<Nafallo> works in totem-xine :-)
<herve> yo!
<tseng> hi.
<Nafallo> hi herve :-)
<Amaranth> Nafallo: works in xine, mplayer, vlc, gstreamer, probably even helix
<Amaranth> of course, helix player and real player are worthless now that fluendo got the rights to ship a real plugin
<Nafallo> Amaranth: oki. what room is that btw?
<Amaranth> Nafallo: the one that says it's for keynotes ;)
<Nafallo> Amaranth: hehe, k
* Nafallo starts planning his stream-day ;-)
<\sh> hey herve
<Amaranth> it's time
<herve> doko: it seems you found with python2.3 lost readline features?
<tseng> i saw ogra and seb on the feed :)
<tseng> Amaranth: is he talking?
<tseng> i have no sound yet
<Amaranth> no
<Amaranth> he blew into the mic once or twice
<Amaranth> i'm not there, i'm watching the stream
<tseng> well so am I
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> you can tell it's on because he blew lightly into the mic once or twice
<Amaranth> probably taking deep breaths :D
<herve> what are you talking about?
<Amaranth> http://stream.fluendo.com:8900/
<Amaranth> miguel's guadec keynote
<Amaranth> starting any minute now
<tseng> bwar
<herve> "matthew's ubuntu review"
<herve> that document is interesting
<tseng> "interesting" is loose there
<tseng> f-spot!
<herve> ;-)
<tseng> "of course i only listed the mono ones, because i want to indoctrineate you"
<tseng> man
<herve> well, I'm installing f-spot at that time ;-)
<Treenaks> <3 tv-out
<herve> use ubuntu ;-)
<tseng> yes!
<Nafallo> :-D
<herve> well, "buy nokia", but they also support software patents...
<tseng> if you are a company like nokia in the US
<tseng> you have to
<tseng> to protect yourself from ibm and microsoft patents
<tseng> and sun
<herve> I mean in the EU
<herve> they are lobbying
<Nafallo> lol. I shouldn't show you this: but I do it live for the whole internet ;-).
<herve> we're only 1000, no big deal ;-)
<tseng> it will be for download later, at least I hope so
<tseng> so I can blog the best lines
<Nafallo> hehe
<tseng> "dont buy novell, just use ubuntu"
<herve> what novell os is based on?
<tseng> suse
<tseng> well, novell linux desktop
<tseng> novell netware is its own
* herve fool
<herve> of course they bought suse;..
<tseng> was that mark?
<Amaranth> seb or orga just asked that question?
<Amaranth> oh, or mark
<tseng> no seb and ogra are in the back
<tseng> he was looking in the other direction from them
<Amaranth> any other canonical guys there?
<Nafallo> damn is he right about that :-). tetris rocks ;-).
<herve> wow, I got several seconds of lag!
<Amaranth> i was dropping audio for awhile
<tseng> i dropped the whole thing
<tseng> im off for a bit
<Nafallo> turn off all downloads/uploads and it works for me ;-)
<herve> yes, I dropped mono install
<Nafallo> yay! lot's of ubuntupushing ;-)
<herve> we must admit ubuntu has a rocking mono team!
<Nafallo> indeed :-)
<Nafallo> hmm, gst or selinux :-P
<herve> all those geeks carrying their laptop :-)
<Amaranth> i chose gst, but it seems to suck
<Amaranth> :P
<Amaranth> you can't see the slides
<Amaranth> ah, they fixed it
<Nafallo> hmm, the cam @ selinux sucks ;-)
<Nafallo> the sound even...
<Amaranth> the gst one was too bright
<Amaranth> "people are still coming in"
<Amaranth> hehe, he started right on time, the keynote ran over
<Amaranth> is the selinux one very exciting?
<Nafallo> not yet ;-)
<Amaranth> Kamion is doing it, right?
<Nafallo> ehm, no? Colin Walters
<Amaranth> oh, wrong last name ;)
<Treenaks> Colin Walters != Colin Watson
<Amaranth> i just glanced at the page on my way to the gstreamer link
* Nafallo has the page open ;-)
<\sh> hmmm..
* Amaranth goes back to fixing smeg
<\sh> anyone has experience with debarchiver?
<herve> I certainly hope sessions will be available for downloa
<Amaranth> two hours until the next session i want to see
<Amaranth> tomorrow looks exciting
<Nafallo> yay! Mark :-)
* Nafallo shall set his alarmclock
<Amaranth> yeah, and project topaz
<herve> where did you find the stream url?
<Amaranth> shit, mark's keynote is 4:30am here
<Nafallo> http://stream.fluendo.com/guadec/
<herve> yeah but how did you find it? :)-
<Nafallo> herve: click on "See the stream (autodetection)" :-)
<herve> I mean, from the guadec website
<herve> I couldn't find any link to the streams
<Amaranth> oh
<Amaranth> thomas gave it to me
<Amaranth> thomasvs
<herve> hmm... a big issue of their site then
<herve> yo ogra!
<tseng> hi ogra !
<ogra> hey guys
<tseng> ogra: you and seb were in the camera for awhile :)
<tseng> before the talk started
<ogra> yep, dholbach told us :)
<tseng> :D
<ogra> the mono talk was quite intresting
<tseng> miguel is the best
<ogra> he mentioned the mono/ubuntu live cd quite often ;)
<tseng> oh a different talk?
<ogra> (with always mentioning that its ubuntu based)
<ogra> nope, the same
<tseng> hm i turned it off too soon I guess
<ogra> in the end he only talked about mono...
<tseng> i liked when someone asked about fedora
<ogra> hehe
<tseng> and he said, just use ubuntu
<tseng> :) we rock.
<ogra> YOU rock ;)
<Amaranth> http://dev.realistanew.com/smeg-0.7.png <--does it seem obvious to you guys what everything here means?
<Amaranth> tseng: any updates on getting mono into main?
<tseng> i dunno no one updated the seeds that I saw
<ogra> Amaranth, its already in
<tseng> but i am falling behind on breezy-changes
<ogra> just waiting that dbus gets rebuilt
<tseng> there is too much mail
<Amaranth> ok, the dbus thing is what i was getting at
<ogra> just jump over the auto updater mails teng
<tseng> 
<tseng> Get:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/universe mono 1.1.7-0ubuntu5 [1182B] 
* Nafallo listens to gst instead
<Amaranth> yeah...
<siretart> \sh: pong
<\sh> siretart: hey
<\sh> siretart: check njam :) its on ubuntu.linux-server.org I moved html/ now to usr/share/doc/njam
<\sh> I want to setup an package archive with debarchiver...and I want the packages sorted just like ubuntu is doing is...so breezy/main breezy/universe etc,
<\sh> but I don
<\sh> 't find any howto for it...debarchiver is running :) but not as i want
<herve> Amaranth, about your picture, it looks fine, but I'll place the "new" buttons where appropriate
<herve> ie, "new menu" below the menu panel
<Amaranth> well, maybe i should show another screenshot :)
<herve> tseng, what about using gmane news or rss features for breezy-changes?
<herve> \sh, I can help you setting up a "dist+pool" archive
<herve> but I'm not sure what you need
<Amaranth> herve: http://dev.realistanew.com/smeg-0.7-2.png
<Amaranth> that's why i didn't put the buttons like that
<herve> ha ok
<herve> I see your point
<\sh> herve: something like ubuntu has...the sorting should be also dist/main dist/universe etc.
<herve> but I insist on mine, menus still are on the left :)-
<Amaranth> they're on the right too
<herve> \sh, http://deb.oursours.net/ubuntu
<herve> Amaranth, it's a special case
<\sh> herve: thats it
<herve> \sh, well, I only have universe here, but could be
<\sh> herve: debarchiver or some other software?
<herve> by hand :-)
<herve> ho no
<herve> apt-ftparchive
<herve> or some name like thayt
<herve> you'll find all the scripts in the ubuntu directoryu
<\sh> i wonder how the sorting is done from upload to apt-gettable archives...what is the key to decide which package belongs to main which to universe etc.
* herve should remove his gloves to type...
<herve> haaa, sorry
<herve> there are some .override files in the ubuntu archive, afair
<Nafallo> my wlandriver causes lag :-/
<Amaranth> herve: http://dev.realistanew.com/smeg-0.7-3.png
<Amaranth> like that?
<herve> Amaranth, yes
<Amaranth> ok, now that vs http://www.realistanew.com/images/smeg/smeg-0.6.png
<Amaranth> which looks better?
<\sh> herve: lemme check apt-ftparchive
<\sh> debarchiver can work with it
<herve> Amaranth, you removed the special of menus at the place of entries, which I liked
<herve> like
<Amaranth> ?
<Amaranth> 0.6 is the last version, trying to make sure i'm actually making something better here :)
<herve> and you're developping 0.7?
<Amaranth> yeah
<herve> ok, I understand why the separator button appear :)-
<Amaranth> which is better: 0.7 or 0.6?
<Amaranth> looks, not features
<Amaranth> i'm hoping to be able to consider this release feature complete, so i need to get it right
<herve> hmm...
<Amaranth> personally i hated the visible column in the menus
<Amaranth> but it's slightly more work to show/hide a menu now
<herve> yes, 0.7 has a better look
<Amaranth> actually, it doesn't matter, i have to go with 0.7 :P
<siretart> \sh: i had a look at your package. I assume you are aware about the lintian warnings, yes?
<Amaranth> otherwise separators and moving things around won't be possible at all
<Amaranth> i'm going to be the first to nail calum's sketch of what a menu editor should look like
<siretart> \sh: besides the lintian warnings and errors, I think the package is fine
<herve> Amaranth, hooray for 0.7!
* Amaranth goes back to making copy/paste work
<\sh> siretart: yeah...it will be fixed just now
<siretart> \sh: did you make any progress at arkrpg?
<\sh> siretart: no :(
<siretart> \sh: I looked at it, but I think its really weird. Types from included source are "unknown" at several places. Placing forward declaration is a workaround at some places, but not everywhere
<\sh> in the end i will rewrite this bloody rules fule
<\sh> siretart: the problem is more, that configure is totally broken
<\sh> the tests for xlibs and xincludes are failing
<siretart> \sh: I think there goes something really wrong with the preprocessor
<\sh> and this I can only overcome with autoreconf
<\sh> but i don't know where to inject this..tried configure target doesn
<siretart> hm. really strange. but it is also heavily patched by the DD
<\sh> 't work...
<\sh> i tried update-config hook
<\sh> no luck either
<siretart> really really weird package..
<tseng> herzi: i tried gmane rss for ubuntu-security and it seemed a little wonky
<trulux> tseng: where's mpt?
<tseng> trulux: miguel was talking about his work at guadec
<tseng> trulux: i very rarely see mpt on irc.
<ogra> tseng, whats the rl for the livestream ?
<ogra> url even
<tseng> one sec
<tseng> its on planet gnome
<trulux> tseng: mpt != Miguel, I mean the usability master
<tseng> thats waht I said
<tseng> miguel was talking about the mpt usability study I mean
<ogra> tseng, i missed the gtk# talk in favor of a long chat with andrew towbridge ;)
<tseng> ogra: not john trowbridge?
<ogra> err, yes
<tseng> nice :)
<trulux> tseng: BTW, I feel cool enough to talk now (/query, even phone) about what happened yesterday, but I don't expect a lot to get solved regarding the other folks
<ogra> i'm bad at names ;)
<tseng> trulux: i was just miffed that you went around my friends to work on hardened-gentoo, and I flamed you
<tseng> trulux: i wish it could have stayed in a private place, but its over now
<tseng> hm who has mono 1.1.7-0ubuntu5 and muine?
<tseng> ogra: anything interesting come up?
<tseng> ogra: i like trow
<ogra> yep, he's nice
<ogra> they'll get amd64 boxen eventually
<ogra> and he told me that they use ubuntu internally quite often *g*
<tseng> yep
<tseng> thats why they all bug me so much about the packaging :P
<tseng> they have been building stuff from svn :(
<ogra> yep
<tseng> there will be a party at novell when breezy is released for sure :)
<ogra> but i guess he wouldnt say that officially :)
<ogra> the mono live CD isnt officially by novell... its just a subproject :/
<tseng> it wasnt done by anyone at novell
<trulux> tseng: your friends? I just said true and strong facts over your fascist lead. I don't accept the abuse of authority, if a lead can't give candor to his co-workers, then he's not the lead, he's a fascist asshole. Keep that in mind.
<tseng> trulux: noted, thanks.
<ogra> trulux, may i remind you of the code of conduct please ?
<trulux> tseng: now, I would like to go back to our work, that thing once a time we wanted to do together
<tseng> happy coding
<trulux> ogra: sorry if it sounds stupid, but, that one I sent signed by hand in a FAX to Mako?
<trulux> ogra: *sigh*
<ogra> trulux, faschist asshole isnt appropriate wording for an ubuntu channel, no matter in which context if you titel someone wih it
<ogra> so please keep it friendly in here or we have to do something against it.... which i wouldnt like...
<trulux> ogra: sorry, I'm neither politically correct or respectful to those who aren't with me
<trulux> ogra: please, just a thing, I will keep closer to the CC, but don't do that. just do it if you are going to feel proud
<ogra> trulux, i dont know whats going on between tseng and you currently (didnt follow ubuntu-hardened) but please keep it outside of this channel
<trulux> ogra: he's not even in -hardened. I even wonder what he wants really
<trulux> ogra: it's slightly related to Ubuntu, as tseng said names of other people
<ogra> trulux, no idea, but watch your wording please, thats all...
* ogra has to go to a talk now...
<trulux> ogra: sure, if you mean that I can say fascist with other words, then great. no willing to disturb around
<trulux> ajmitch: ping
<herve> just seen gnomevfs-mount, seems nice
<tseng> herve: something other than drivemount_applet?
<herve> you can mount http://somewebsite/ as an example
<ogra> trulux, please keep this wording completely out of here... i'm german, i react pretty sensitive to this word !! i wouldnt like to ban you or anyone  from here
<trulux> ogra: I'm Spanish, my country has sufferred fascism for more than 30 years of continuous abuse, a Civil war which dividided our society in two parts, and now, in nowdays, shiny-sucking-great-world, fascism is getting all over the place again in form of politicakly-correct jerks, business men and globalizing morons.
<Nafallo> anyone else have problems with the guadec streams? they buffer and loose sound all the time.
<trulux> I react pretty sensitive to this SHIT, 'cos members of my family gave their life and beliefs to make this a better country
<tseng> Nafallo: yep its a bit choppy in spots
<trulux> ogra: in other words, I don't know you, but I'm sure I have an huge amount of facts to throw over that statement
<trulux> ogra: and more important, nevern. never try to let me think/believe that I can't fascist in a channel which Free Software development takes place
<trulux> ogra: If you put atenttion, I get hard once you get hard against me, I get closer to be upset once you try to say you can ban and close my mouth, and I get much more decent and worthy tosay what I'm saying when you and others try to abuse of such facts
<trulux> just that
<trulux> I'm here willing help, don't make me willing to blow you up
<ogra> please just stop it
<trulux> ogra: your choice now, I've taken alrady the decision
<siretart> please, everyone. stop it. start /ignoring. This channel is about improving a linux distribution for humans
<siretart> this discussion is not helping anyone
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ogra]  by ChanServ
<tseng> wb mgalvin
<mgalvin> hi
<\sh> siretart: i'm having a closer look to debian dak :) (katie) :)
<trulux> siretart: thanks for the advice, we're humans (and biased by meaning), yup.
<trulux> ;)
<\sh> siretart: it should help you to get your project running
<trulux> ogra: Already feeling the power?
<ogra> please just stop it
<trulux> ogra: sure
<ogra> fine
<siretart> \sh: ah great. the problem is, right now I havn't time to discuss this.
<siretart> \sh: lets discuss this later the week, I'll try to write something done in the wiki or at least as email to have something to discuss
<trulux> ogra: do you anything about pitti? is he enjoying the weekend?
<ogra> sure
<trulux> ogra: where can I find the url to the current breezy 2.6.12 sources (tarball)?
<ogra> he doesnt work on sundays
<\sh> siretart: yeah...its quite a huge package full of python magic ;)
<ogra> no idea, cant you take the source pkg ?
<\sh> *grmpf*
<\sh> could anyone ask on -devel if anyone is there to help with katie?
<ogra> \sh, try to ping elmo
<siretart> \sh: I'm not really sure if a full blown dak is really needed. I think that a mini-dinstall could suffice
<siretart> \sh: I think mentors.debian.net is running mini-dinstall with hooks, too
<trulux> ogra: ok, will do. it's just that I'm on Hoary riught now
<tseng> you can just grab the sources off packages.ubuntu.com
<siretart> trulux: look at http://packages.ubuntu.com/linux-source-2.6.12 there you can download the source package
<\sh> siretart: lets check it out .)
<trulux> siretart: many thanks, rock :)
<siretart> gotta leave. cu tomorrow!
<Nafallo> siretart: see you :-)
<mgalvin> what might be the best way to package pre-built binaries, i made a deb of the nvidia-cg-toolkit from the rpm but would like to create a proper deb, does anyone know of maybe a good example package
<herve> pre-built binaries? seems like non free software too me :-)
<mgalvin> yea, it not, its nvidias cg compiler an runtime, no source from them :-/
<herve> so I guess it means "copying" the binary in the usr/bin directory of the tree?
<mgalvin> correct
<mgalvin> I also have the cegui package built, and up on the wiki as needs review
<herve> I wish I had so much time
<mgalvin> i was up late last night ;)
<mgalvin> i am having some fun learning all this stuff, and been looking at other packages getting a feel for how things are done
<herve> that's how I do too
<herve> that and asking of course :)-
<ogra> bye.... dinner time....
<hondje> Hi guys. Are there any official ubuntu cflags I should use when making a package?
<\sh> hondje: the build tools will detect them selfs from deb configuration
<hondje> ah, voodoo :)
<herve> cflags?
<herve> I'm not sure what it is, but the policy said something about -fPIC or something
<trulux> herve: CFLAGS set the specific compiler options for the object code being compiled and later linked to the final binary using the LDFLAGS
<trulux> herve: -fPIC is needed in certain architectures to make libraries working, thus, if there's conflict with it, you must set -fPIC only for LDFLAGS
<DanielN> \sh: thanks for your great local apt-repo howto, found on your wiki-page. it's nice!
<trulux> hence, only the libraries will be PIC
<trulux> herve: ;)
<herve> yeah, yeah... like I knew the policy by heart :)-
<herve> but thanks trulux for the reminder
<herve> pic for libs because libs are picky ;)-
<herve> and herve will coordinate his fingers some day...
<herve> wow, I don't if the french people will make the eu explode overnight
<herve> but we're already 2/3 to have voted, this has not be seen for decads
<herve> decades
<herve> some even say 3/4
<herve> and I read even more
<trulux> herve: we must thank many things to French people, one of them that Bordeaux pretty nice girls
<herve> I never went to bordeaux, but you should meet lyon one :)-
<herve> ones
<trulux> I'll do during the LSM 2005
<trulux> I'll be the little, younger puppet in the show, hopefully
<trulux> I will try to look less wicked and perverted, and you'll see how them come around me ;)
<herve> hmm the lsm will occur in dijon
<herve> that reminds me I should organize myself for it
<trulux> herve: I will need to get transport from Lyon to Dijon
<trulux> herve: I hope to meet with you and other guys, Gentoo French conspiration will be there
<herve> hehe
<trulux> kang (one of the RSBAC guys).... long list
<herve> why do I see french and conspiration in the same sentence? ;-)
<herve> but I look forward to meeting you (and others?)
<trulux> herve: sure ;D
<trulux> herve: I hope to meet another guy there that could even help with the talk, but we need to organize it together
<herve> right, you make a talk here
<trulux> herve: I hope that Lyon / Bordeaux girls to be *not* a myth
<trulux> yes
<herve> hehe
<trulux> hope to find there the typical guy who wants to make "difficult questions" 'cos his talk wasn't accepted
<trulux> I always like those ones
<herve> like "I could have done better" ?
<trulux> herve: no, I mean the guy that tries to make you feeling nervous. It uses to happen when I appear, first they laugh at me, after the speech they shut up
<trulux> herve: that's the funny part, when I ask where's the conference room
<trulux> "Hahaha, we dunno" "OK, thanks anyways, we'll see later"
<trulux> ;D
<trulux> I hope to get cheap plane tickets
<trulux> at least the funding part seems to be solved, I think I will sleep in the university
<trulux> herve: I will keep a good lock with me ;P
<herve> ??
<trulux> herve: the university has a students building as most do, to let foreign ones to sleep there
<trulux> herve: and the like
<herve> hmm... I have not thought about the comodity part
<herve> I know someone at dijon
<herve> but not necessarly feasible
<trulux> herve: don't worry, I will manage it
<trulux> herve: btw, I forgot how to solve these GPG missing sec. ring errors on apt-get update
<trulux> herve: secring.gpg on my /etc/apt right?
<herve> hmm?
<herve> mine is empty
<trulux> W: GPG error: http://security.ubuntu.com hoary-security Release: Couldn't access keyring: No such file or directory
<trulux> W: GPG error: http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary Release: Couldn't access keyring: No such file or directory
<trulux> W: GPG error: http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary-updates Release: Couldn't access keyring: No such file or directory
<trulux> lah, apt-key update
<trulux> damn my ignorance
<trulux> solved
<trulux> ;)
<herve> ha, hoary
<trulux> my devel box needs to be stable
<trulux> ;)
<trulux> VMs and chroots are enough for Breezy
<DanielN> herve: ure using breezy or what?
<herve> DanielN, yes
<herve> and updated daily
<herve> don't do this at home, kids!
<DanielN> bleeding *shudder*
<Nafallo> herve: already do. and updating hourly ;-)
<herve> Nafallo, I knew my case wasn't the worst ;)-
<herve> well, time to warm the oven!
<DanielN> herve: you've inspired me .. installing hoary on VM to upgrade a breezy wild-badger :P
<herve> ho no!
<herve> I didn't say that!
<herve> </disclaimer>
<DanielN> herve: ????
<herve> ha, VM, the emulator?
<DanielN> qemu
<herve> one emulator, still
<herve> ok, there you go!
<DanielN> yep
<trulux> DanielN: vmware rocks
<DanielN> qemu is almost the same
<DanielN> imho
<trulux> DanielN: well, it can do other neat things, though, it doesn't achieve the performance and graceful effects of VMWare
<DanielN> yeah .. of course your right .. but i don't wan't to pay for vmware
<DanielN> if there's a suitable alternative
<ivoks> hi
<\sh> siretart: ping
<herve> hi ivoks
<herve> how was slovenia?
<ivoks> nice :)
<ivoks> hot :)
<herve> yeah, the weather :-)
<ivoks> among other things :)
<ivoks> good company and lots of nice topless girls :)
<\sh> dinner time
<trulux> bbl, going to watch the episode III in the cinema
<trulux> happy hacking guys
<\sh> dinner was good and dr. who as well :)
<herve> the old british series?
<\sh> herve: the new british season :) dr. who 2005
<herve> I thought it stopped in late 70's ;-)
<\sh> hehe...no i think in the 90's and 8 years later the 2005 series were made
<Nafallo> tseng: ping
<Nafallo> tseng: blam crashes on updates cause it can't find gdk-x11-2.0. something wasn't pulled in correctly?
<herve> Nafallo, blam is a mono application?
<Amaranth> yes
<herve> read the topic :-)
<herve> I can't run f-spot for the same reason
<Amaranth> you can always get the dependencies yourself
<Amaranth> btw, that topic was put up about a month ago ;)
<herve> we've been... er, busy :-)
<Amaranth> yeah :)
<Amaranth> speaking of mono, any magic foo i can do to make dbus compile a mono binding on my system?
<Amaranth> i'm not afraid of dpkg :)
<Amaranth> i can't figure out what muine uses dbus for though
<herve> getting events at folder change?
<Amaranth> but what did they imagine would ever sent those events?
<Amaranth> and why would it use dbus instead of inotify? :)
<MarioOs> hello
<tseng> Nafallo: ...
<tseng> Nafallo: did you read the topic?
<tseng> Nafallo: also did you try my upload today
<tseng> hm it failed
<tseng> ah
<tseng> lets fix that
<herve> well, I'm starting to like f-spot
<saintsjd> Quick questionfrom a newbie: There is a package in Ubuntu universe called gdal.  What can I do to make sure that it is fully supported and inclded in the main repository for the breezy release?
<tseng> is there a reason it should be in main?
<saintsjd> It is the base for many GIS packages that I would like to see included some day. For that it is important that it receives security updates.
<Nafallo> tseng: Unhandled Exception: System.DllNotFoundException: gdk-x11-2.0
<Nafallo> tseng: you know what's wrong?
<Nafallo> tseng: trying to update feeds in blam.
<tseng> yes, I know whats wrong
<tseng> i already uploaded a fix today but it failed on firefox name change
<tseng> i uploaded again
<tseng> try again later
<tseng> and read the topic
<herve> saintsjd, I think Ubuntu has a subproject for GIS
<Nafallo> tseng: ahh, oki :-)
<Amaranth> also, read the topics of #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu about using breezy ;)
<tseng> if there is a bug in mono stuff, the chances are pretty good i already heard about it 6 times :P
<saintsjd> herve: Yes, we are trying to start the GIS subproject
<Nafallo> tseng: I've read the topic. I just thought I could install a missing package ;-). thanx anyway.
<tseng> Nafallo: you can
<tseng> Nafallo: libgtk2.0-dev
<tseng> or you can wait for the fix to build
<herve> saintsjd, hehe, then you'd better ask #ubuntu-devel
<tseng> you can also just install this file
<tseng> brandon@lappy:~/work/debian$ cat /usr/lib/blam/blam.exe.config
<tseng> <configuration>
<tseng> 	<dllmap dll="gdk-x11-2.0" target="libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0"/>
<tseng> 	<dllmap dll="libX11" target="/usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6.2"/>
<tseng> </configuration>
<tseng> thats what I uploaded
<Amaranth> shouldn't that be /usr/lib/X11?
<tseng> it should not have the full path at all
<tseng> i already fixed that too
<Amaranth> well, no
<tseng> i must have an old copy installed
<tseng> but
<tseng> just fix it
<tseng> Amaranth: good catch, but im faster
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> did you ever figure out the tomboy stuff?
<tseng> the icon?
<Amaranth> yeah
<tseng> i think i might just ship the 24x24 one
<tseng> instead
<Amaranth> if not i'll work on it after i get dbus back
<tseng> i dont have time to learn how to do a bunch of hacky crap in gtk#
<Amaranth> the reason i didn't last time is because you have tomboy.png.uu
<tseng> dave does, yes
<Amaranth> and i don't know what to replace that with, because i'll have two files called tomboy
<Amaranth> well, whoever ;)
<herve> night all!
<Amaranth> night herve
<Amaranth> d'oh
<tseng> ideally someone will make nicer icons and alex will just release with them
<tseng> he wants something lame that means "tomboy" and not "notes"
<tseng> oh and he swears more than I do
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> you should see me when i find a nasty bug in smeg
<Amaranth> the name fits
<saintsjd> How does one package end up in main repository and  another in Universe? what is the difference between the two that makes them go to diffferent repositories?
<tseng> saintsjd: one is probably something an application we want in the main desktop requires
<tseng> universe is the rest
<saintsjd> oh so universe is still "maintained" with security updates?
<tseng> er
<tseng> its "best effort"
<Nafallo> saintsjd: yepp
<saintsjd> if so, then gdal does not need to be in main.
<tseng> you can help out by submitting security fixes also
<Amaranth> does hoary-security even have a universe section?
<tseng> yes.
<tseng> there are a few guys working on it now
<tseng> iirc Nafallo is one of them
<tseng> or was it Burgandiva i guess
<\sh> phew
<saintsjd> "Best effort" would definitely do for GIS apps. They are not need by mainstream users.
<saintsjd> In universe does security depend upon the best eforts of the maintainer of the package? or is there a full team to oversee?
<Nafallo> yepp. /me, astharot, pitti AFAIK
<crimmy> saintsjd: we don't really have maintainers, per se
<Amaranth> we have teams for some things
<Amaranth> the rest is just whoever is willing to work on it
<tseng> yep
<saintsjd> sounds like getting involved will be fairly straightforward then.  This is a good thing.
<Amaranth> like tseng, he's the mono man
<tseng> <3
<tseng> i accept help at times
<Amaranth> yeah, you just do some work on some packages and get someone to sponsor it, then sign up to be a MOTU
<Amaranth> http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTU
<saintsjd> There are already many GIS packages in debian SID.  When breezy freezes will these packages automatically be included in Breezy's universe?
<tseng> we automatically sync things across for the first 2 or 3 months
<Amaranth> they should be there now?
<tseng> also if you want to change things, it less painful to do it on the debian side
<tseng> you dont get conflicts that way
<saintsjd> do you develop your packages in a sid environment? Is that the easiest way to go?
<tseng> erm i mean, work with the debian maintainer to make changes you need
<tseng> if you are talking about a group of packages
<tseng> for example, i have several packages that use gtkembedmoz
<tseng> i have to make changes to everyone to use firefox isntead of mozilla as debian does
<Nafallo> blaaah. blam dies because of my pinned X now ;-)
<tseng> it would be ideal in this case if i could get someone to make that change in debian
<tseng> i cant in this case, but you get the point
<saintsjd> got it.
<tseng> just be in communication with the debian side
<tseng> if you have to make ubuntu specific changes, oh well
<saintsjd> yes that sounds best.
<tseng> but you get the keep both pieces :P
<tseng> i dont know i probably do more hardcore stuff than you will have to bother with
<saintsjd> yes, my stuff will be fairly simple because there is a whole debian GIS group with a lot of momentum.  There is one package that needs to be recompiled for python 2.4 instead of debian's 2.3
<saintsjd> If I can get that package into sid, then Things should be ok for Ubuntu.
<tseng> sounds great
<tseng> what is gis btw
<\sh> tseng: geo information system
<\sh> saintsjd: talk to ogra if hes back from guadec
<tseng>  k.
<saintsjd> on the phone, sorry.
<saintsjd> Geographic information System
<saintsjd> I will look for ogra.
<saintsjd> Thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-29
<\sh> bmonty: builds here on amd64 just fine
<bmonty> \sh: ok, thanks
<\sh> rscheme 0.7.3.4.b3-4 right?
<\sh> i can try as well on i386
<bmonty> \sh: version is correct, and if you could try a i386 build that would be great
<\sh> bmonty: on i386 I can reproduce your segfault
<\sh> basic top level includes: mathlib
<\sh> make[2] : *** [system.img]  Segmentation fault
<\sh> make[2] : Leaving directory `/home/shermann/packages/dapper/rscheme/rscheme-0.7.3.4.b3/stage0'
<bmonty> \sh: yup, ok at least it isn't just me :)
<bmonty> \sh: can you please add a note to Malone #47107 with what you just tested?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47107 in rscheme "[UNMETDEPS]  rscheme links against old libmysqlclient" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47107
<\sh> sure
<\sh> hmm...my karma will just increase again today
<hub> is it me or no info has been put up about the ubuntu conference un Paris?
<LaserJock> Dapper isn't even out the door yet :-)
<LaserJock> but yeah, I'd like to see info too
<\sh> hub: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitParis?highlight=%28Paris%29
<hub> ah ok
<hub> fridge has nothing
<hub> nor the calendar
<bmonty> \sh: php4-yaz is uploaded
<\sh> bmonty: thx :)
<hub> \sh: will you be there?
<LaserJock> well, I was looking for more info, but whatever
<\sh> hub: dunno...I'm busy with my FAI project...actually I could only join for a weekend or so, if I find the time and money to come to paris, and a sleeping place in paris would be nice ;)
<neutrinomass> Is it part of policy that the "Depends" line of a package does not contain newlines ?
<\sh> neutrinomass: it needs to be one line
<neutrinomass> \sh: I'm writing a program that parses /var/lib/dpkg/status and I'm having problems. Now that I look at it closely, it's not a newline problem. The status file lists different deps than what 'aptitude show evince-gtk' does (although I have no clue as to why ... )
<\sh> neutrinomass: which package do you parse? source or binary?
<LaserJock> anybody know of a way to test debconf stuff
<neutrinomass> \sh: 'evince-gtk'.  In the status file, I only see "Package","priority","architecture" and "section", while aptitude show evince-gtk lists a bunch of dependencies.
<\sh> LaserJock: man debconf ;)
<neutrinomass> \sh: I might be doing something wrong, I'm not intimately acquainted with dpkg and friends....
<\sh> neutrinomass: wait :)
<neutrinomass> \sh: Thanks a lot ! :)
<bmonty> LaserJock: make sure you make a local debconf config file
<\sh> LaserJock: under examples in this manpage there is a way how to test debconf things
<LaserJock> \sh: oh, ok. thanks
<\sh> neutrinomass: hmm...when I install evince-gtk /var/lib/dpkg/status shows me the same dependencies as apt-cache show evince-gtk
<neutrinomass> \sh: After installing only ? Shouldn't that stuff be available before installing ?
<\sh> neutrinomass: no not status
<neutrinomass> \sh: I've been parsing the wrong file. In C :( Grrr, where is that information then ?
<hub> \sh: just asking. won't  be there
<\sh> neutrinomass: in /var/lib/apt/
<\sh> neutrinomass: in /var/lib/dpkg/ only all installed stuff is mentioned there...what you want is Packages
<\sh> hub: tell me when you are the next time in germany :) I owe you some beer ;)
<neutrinomass> \sh: Great! Thanks! I'm pretty lucky the file format is the same :D Btw, since I've already distracted you from your work, is there a way to know a files content's without installing them? (besides packages.ubuntu.com )
<\sh> neutrinomass: check apt-file :)
<neutrinomass> \sh: Thanks.
<\sh> neutrinomass: or http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/ there are Content-$arch.gz files..that's what you want
<\sh> and no one is distracting me...I should be in bed, because I have to get up at 3am UTC+2
<neutrinomass> \sh: I'll just hook apt-file with a bash script afterwards (I could do the entire thing in bash, but I totally suck at it so I had to resort to C). Last question: How come some packages don't have "Depends" ?
<\sh> neutrinomass: e.g.?
<neutrinomass> \sh: I don't know. But cat us.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_dapper_main_source_Sources | grep Package | wc -l gives 2384, but grepping for "Packages" gives 2429
<neutrinomass> Hm.. grepping for "Package:" gives 2384, but "Depends:" gives 1369 ...
<\sh> neutrinomass: because you have Build-Depends and Build-Depends-Indep ;)
<\sh> which is 2 lines
<neutrinomass> \sh: (last, I promise!) Yes, yes. If a package uses gtk/qt/... for example though, it will be in Depends, not in the other categories?
<\sh> categories and dependencies are different
<\sh> s/categories/sections/
<\sh> neutrinomass: but you have to make a difference between source packages and binary packages
<neutrinomass> \sh: Yes yes. I'm trying to figure out what programs have a GUI (to write a program that will semi-automatically create the .desktops for them). I've got a comprehensive list of widget toolkits, so I'm looking at "Depends" ...
<\sh> neutrinomass: you can't tell, there are some packages which only have build-dependencies but no UI attached
<neutrinomass> \sh: Well, yes. I'm surely going to miss a few,.. But I take it for granted that everything that includes gtk libs has a GUI to go with it :) Anyway, thanks a lot. I'll be skipping the packages without "Depends" in them ...
<\sh> neutrinomass: hmm..what about styles?
<hub> \sh: I was in Mainz the other day. I don't know next time
<hub> I'm not even sure I'll have a job tomorrow evening
<\sh> neutrinomass: e.g. kde styles do have a libqt build-dep, but it's not actually a GUI, but it's UI and doesn't need a .desktop file as in "put it into a menu" ;)
<\sh> hub: hu? what's up?
<hub> \sh: management conflict, we'll see
<hub> but if that end up that way, they are just moron
<zul> heh...they always are
<neutrinomass> \sh: I'll be creating useless .desktops for a few, yes. But if I can get 100 semi-ready (I'll have to fill in the .desktop "Category" manually in any case) , I don't mind rejecting a couple of useless files on the way :)
<\sh> hub: I know a company who needs good people ;) sysadmins and coders ;)
<zul> er..would that be canonical
<hub> \sh: as long as I can stay were I an
<azeem> hub: why didn't they send you to LinuxTag as well (you're at Xandros, right?).  They only had 1-man booth there IIRC
<hub> azeem: that was actually a personal schedule conflict
<\sh> neutrinomass: so you try to create .desktop files, and depending on libqt or libgtk dependencies you file them into the right category, like GNOME or QT?
<azeem> ah
<hub> azeem: I was signing for my new house and moving
<hub> azeem: I return the van at 12:00 flying out at 15:00
<hub> azeem: so it was not possible. otherwise I would have
<\sh> azeem: xandros in .de is just a  one man show ;)
<hub> azeem: yeah, I'm a devleoper, not a sales person
<hub> azeem: my boss offered me to change the tickets to leave sooner
<neutrinomass> \sh: Hopefully yes. What I want to do is basically: Look through the deps of all the packages and pick out those with widget deps. List the conents of those packages and if they have a .desktop, I drop them. I find the icon using locate, I grab the first line of the package description and put it as a tooltip (it's good 70% of the times). Depending on the libs yeah, I could do the QT/GTK thing. Otherwise I'm left with many many .deskto
<azeem> I think there were more developers than sales persons at the booths, but I didn't check :)
<hub> azeem: well, it depends what you try to sell
<hub> azeem: :-)
<hub> azeem: but it does not matter
<neutrinomass> \sh: Say 5 min fixing it up, another 3 min to file a report it in LP and another 2 min to link to the report you opened on the debian bugtracker :)
<neutrinomass> Bah, I'll try to do it with pipes instead. Screw C.
<ajmitch> afternoon
<bmonty> hey ajmitch
<tseng> hi
<\sh> moins
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<zul> yo
<ajmitch> hello zul, imbrandon
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> yo zul ajmitch imbrandon
<imbrandon> sup ...
<zul> hey zakame
<imbrandon> lots of oo.o updated as of late ;)
* ajmitch shoudl get to work on edgy specs :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<ajmitch> ready to fix more bugs?
<zakame> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<bddebian> and zakame
<bddebian> ajmitch: Sure.  But I thought uploads were cut off?
<ajmitch> not that I've heard
* zul is trying to get kernel to build...build dam you
<ajmitch> I'll find out in a few minutes if my uploads don't get accepted :)
<bddebian> heh
* zakame gets ready to finalize the x-swat list
<ajmitch> zakame: sounds like you're getting heavily involved now :)
<bddebian> Yeah, zakame is Da Man now :-)
<zakame> ajmitch: yeah, which is why I've been quiet at LP lately :D
<zakame> bddebian: lol!
<zul> hehe....i think the term is fabbione's bitch
<zul> ;)
<ajmitch> zakame enjoys it
<bddebian> Doh
<bddebian> Well I offered to be their bitch but they don't want me :'-(
<zul> he does like i did...too much info
<zul> uh huh
<zakame> hahaha
<ajmitch> bddebian: ok, uploads are still accepted
<ajmitch> I just got 3 in
<zul> whoo...big man..
<zul> ill be doing two hopefully this week..
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well I'm useless/nobody anyway so...
* bddebian crawls to his corner
* imbrandon just crawls away becouse he dont even have a corner to call his own ;)
<imbrandon> j/k
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> right, lunchtime
<Lathiat> haha imbrandon
<truz_`24> what is a good hex editing tool for kde or gnome?
<imbrandon> ghex or khexedit
<julian> hi, i originally asked this question in #ubuntu+1 with no help. question regarding 'switch user' option in the Exit menu.  which product is this filed under for Launchpad?  i want to look up the current bugs.
<julian> i want to check if a bug i have is a duplicate/already reported.
<crimsun> bddebian: yes?
<bddebian> Just saying Hi.  Sorry
<crimsun> bddebian: ah, usually people want to wring my neck when they use exclamation marks
<bddebian> Nah
<LaserJock> oh, for goodness sakes. I'm starting to hate debconf :/
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<bddebian> What
<bddebian> 's the problem?
<LaserJock> I'm trying to use debconf so ripped off suns, but with virtually the same thing I get errors
<LaserJock> but I can't figure out how to test it other than building the .deb and doing dpkg -i
<crimsun> be careful with the debconf keys
<crimsun> you need to cover several cases when you test with debconf: clean install, upgrade, and downgrade
<crimsun> it's the same issue that has been biting us with flashplugin-nonfree
<LaserJock> well, I can't even get install to work
<Hobbsee> greetings
<crimsun> 'afternoon, Hobbsee
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi crimsun and LaserJock
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee, bye Hobbsee :-)
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<ajmitch> night bddebian
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch & night bddebian
<bddebian> :-)
<Hobbsee> night time already?
<LaserJock> cya bddebian
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: kids wear him out
<Hobbsee> hehe.  if in doubt, blame the kids.
* Hobbsee blames assignments for making her tired.
<Hobbsee> hmmm...i really did get the cheapest petrol today.
* Hobbsee really wishes that people would search before writing bug reports.
<crimsun> I'll whip up some duplicate Kubuntu issues just for yuo!
<Hobbsee> no!
<crimsun> aww c'mon
<crimsun> you have all the great sound reports for me :-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> i had a look at the alsa documentation a while ago - looks like you have plenty of sound documentation at your disposal...
<crimsun> oh I do. What's lovely about it is its scattered and obsolete nature. :-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Gloubiboulga> morning MOTU world
<LaserJock> hi Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hi LaserJock :)
<dholbach> good morning motu world
<Gloubiboulga> hello dholbach!
<dholbach> hey Gloubiboulga
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach and Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hi Hobbsee
<LaserJock> dholbach!
<dholbach> heya Hobbsee, LaserJock
<dholbach> how's the universe fixing going?
<LaserJock> unfortunately, I think there are more MOTUScience bugs than I can get done in time :(
<LaserJock> but I suppose Universe in general is doing worse
<LaserJock> dholbach: how are things going for you? are you getting any sleep?
<dholbach> yeah, a bit :)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: did the extra unmet deps stuff make it onto that list?
* Hobbsee was being fat and lazy, and doing nothing.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: yeah
<Hobbsee> dholbach: cool
<LaserJock> uggh, I can't wait for Dapper to be done with but I feel like we should have another year to finish it
<crimsun> welcome to software "engineering" :-)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i just checked libadabindx - it seems to build fine here - what should i do with the bug?  says it was linked to the old libmysqlclient, but i cant see that in the control file anyway...
<dholbach> Hobbsee: yeah, that was my problem with the bug title *blush*
<Hobbsee> hehe right
<dholbach> Hobbsee: one of its binary packages seems to be not installable
<Hobbsee> dholbach: and the fact that it seems to build fine here?
<Hobbsee> ah, depends on xlibs-static-pic
<Hobbsee> wonder why the pbuilder didnt pick it up - i thought it was supposed to...
<ajmitch> because it's not in the build-deps
<Hobbsee> hmm...okay, i'm an idiot.  seems to need xlibs-static-pic to install, not to build.
<LaserJock> ok, so is the general rule to not have versioned deps unless it is neccesary?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i believe that's the case.
<Toadstool> heya motus
* ajmitch checks to see what else he can do in universe
<crimsun> -devel is getting a bit tense.
<Gloubiboulga> indeed, I don't like that :(
<Toadstool> release in 2~3 days, annoying bugs, everybody's stressed :/
<crimsun> heh. I'm stressed already by the anticipated deluge of sound bugs.
<crimsun> And Ubuntu is the /least/ of my worries.
<siretart> any mldonkey fans here?
<siretart> if yes, could someone please retest this patch? it made problems for me, but I think this update is more or less urgent.. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi/debdiff?bug=354701;msg=10;att=1
<ajmitch> sorry, I'm not :)
<ajmitch> how are you siretart ?
<siretart> ajmitch: was a great weekend, but quite rainy
<ajmitch> hm, patch looks like it's needed
<siretart> ajmitch: how are you?
<ajmitch> I'm good
<ajmitch> preparing for edgy, finishing off whatever little I can do for dapper
<siretart> last time, the package didn't install for me properly, and I wasn't sure why
<siretart> but I don't think it is because of this patch, I rather think that I triggered some other bug in the package, but I'm not sure what it actually is, so I forwarded it to debian and hoped that someone else could look at the issue
<ajmitch> the debdiff looks sane, at least
<siretart> the current ubuntu package has a lot more invasive approach to this issue, and I'd like to see it dropped
<bmonty> Malone #40505, any reason why this hasn't been uploaded?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 40505 in wine "UVF exception for Wine 0.9.12" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40505
<ajmitch> bmonty: because the UVF exception for that version wasn't approved?
<bmonty> ajmitch: the bug report has a link to an email that says it was
<ajmitch> no
<bmonty> at least for the latest at the time of the email
<ajmitch> the bug report has a link to a former approval
<ajmitch> note that siretart uploaded 0.9.9 on march 10th
<bmonty> ok
<ajmitch> just because it was approved once in the past doesn't mean all future upstream versions get approval :)
<ajmitch> if there's to be any chance, it'd have to pass by the uvf team
<bmonty> ajmitch: agreed, is there any point in doing a UVF request for it now?
<ajmitch> dunno
<ajmitch> it'd be a fair bit to approve
<bmonty> how will this work with dapper-updates?
<zul> yo
<ajmitch> the UVF team have all been on irc in the last few hours
<bmonty> hi zul
<ajmitch> I don't know, you'd have to check with mdz
<ajmitch> good day zul
<siretart> bmonty: I think wine is rather a -backports candidate than a -updates one
<bmonty> siretart: ok, I'll just leave it alone then :)
<zul> hey ajmitch
<siretart> bmonty: you can still file a bug and create a bugtask for adding it to dapper-backports, so it doesn't get lost
<ajmitch> getting UVF exceptions for big packages like wine at this late stage is hopeful at best :)
<siretart> ajmitch: yes. let's better tell ppl to get it into dapper-backports instead
<ajmitch> night all
<siretart> gn8 ajmitch
<bmonty> hmm, you can't mark a bug for backport to dapper yet :)
<siretart> bmonty: this is indeed a problem and needs to be solved
<bmonty> siretart: opening a bug now :)
<siretart> bmonty: bugno? (I'd like to subscribe)
<bmonty> siretart: Malone #47291
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47291 in malone "need to add dapper to backport menu" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47291
<neutrinomass> should dfontmgr (an interface to defoma) go under Applications->System, System->Preferences or System->Administration ?
<thierryn> Seveas : can I disturb you from your important work?
<Seveas> my important work currently is a game of neverputt 
<Seveas> so no, maybe in 10 minutes ;)
<thierryn> Sevas : no problem :)
<Seveas> thierryn, 'sup?
<thierryn> Seveas : hi, I'd just like to know if I am ready enough for the community council tomorrow... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThierryMoisan
<thierryn> Seveas : I'd also want to know if you've seen seb128 on irc recently, I want to talk to him since about a week and I never find him
<Seveas> #ubuntu-desktop
<thierryn> k thanks
<Seveas> your wikipage looks ok, you should at least get a motu and one of the admins of the french team to do some cheerleading for you
<Seveas> and if you get seb128 to cheerlead for you, that'd be really good
<thierryn> I was thinking about seb128
<thierryn> :)
<thierryn> siretart :  ping
<siretart> thierryn: pong
<thierryn> siretart : you advocated my package (libfxscintilla), so I was wondering if you could help me tomorrow at the community council
<siretart> thierryn: this was some time ago, no?
<thierryn> yeah...
<siretart> thierryn: I'm not sure if I can make it tomorrow.. :/
<thierryn> well it's at 16h00 UTC
<thierryn> siretart : anyway if you sudenly discover you can make it, I would be happy that you come, othwerwise that's not the end of the world
<bmonty> anyone see why the packages user-es and user-de should remain in the archive?
<Whoopie> Hi, who could fix mail-notification bug #43058 and #44086? There are only small adjustments needed which are stated in the bug report. Thanks a lot.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43058 in mail-notification "mail-notification doesn't autostart anymore" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43058
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44086 in mail-notification "mail-notification's icon in the notification area has got a solid grey background." [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44086
<Tonio_> hi
<neutrinomass> Would it be silly to file bugs for .desktops that don't validate because of a missing semi-column in Categories ?
<bluefoxicy> neutrinomass:  no, go ahead and file.
<neutrinomass> bluefoxicy: Ok. I'm feeling a little like wasting peoples' times though :)
<igorzolnikov> Hi, i like ubuntu. How can i help it?
<crimsun> igorzolnikov: scroll to the bottom of http://www.ubuntu.com/community
<crimsun> igorzolnikov: one place we sorely need assistance is in bug triaging/work ; please /join #ubuntu-bugs and read its topic
<Sp4rKy> hi
<Sp4rKy> i've some issue with a bug "patching"
<Sp4rKy> i'd "apt-get source" the bugged package
<Sp4rKy> and  i've modify the source
<Sp4rKy> but when i want regenerate the source (dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S)
<Sp4rKy> i've an error because the email doesn't have secret key
<Sp4rKy> because is the mail of the first packager
<Sp4rKy> so how could i change this please ?
<azeem> add -us -uc  to the command line to prevent signing
<azeem> you can sign with the debsign tool if you decide you need it signed later on
<Sp4rKy> thx
<Sp4rKy> it works
<neutrinomass> Um... I created a .desktop with "Math;Science;" in Categories and it doesn't show up in the menu (it's supposed to be under Other, righ? ). changing it to e.g. "system" fixes this ...
<LaserJock> crimsun: ping?
<crimsun> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> crimsun: I was wondering about (w)(x)maxima
<crimsun> if uploads are still permitted, using non-gcl per reports is preferable
<LaserJock> do you have any time to try it?
<crimsun> building or testing? I have a presentation tomorrow.
<LaserJock> building, but I can try to do it if you are busy
<crimsun> please do, ping me if you run into something
<LaserJock> crimsun: is there a preference for cmucl or clisp, they both reportedly work
<crimsun> LaserJock: whichever is easier (slimmer) in terms of dependencies and most compatible
<LaserJock> hehe, well I had hoped you would know the answer to that, I don't know anything about LISP
<crimsun> I'd go with the former looking at the bug list for both
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-30
<Cashel> I cant seem to find lndir in any packages... am I missing it or is it realy not to be found??
<azeem> it used to be in xutils IIRC
<Cashel> xutils? interesting place for it, I'll try it out... thank you..
<azeem> Cashel: well, it did not survive the modular split
<Cashel> so I just found out, hehe.. Too bad, its rather handy for those of us who compile a lot for recreation :)
<azeem> Cashel: there's a wishlist bug in Debian about putting it into coreutils
<azeem> probably needs a rewrite first, though, I guess
<Cashel> ahhh .. thats a good memory you have there azeem heh..
<azeem> well, I can't find the bug anymore
<crimsun> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=301030
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 301030 in xutils "Subject: can we move lndir to coreutils or debianutils?" [Wishlist,Open] 
<azeem> yeah
<DarkMageZ> hi, could you sync gwget2 with debian? it should remove this bug which is critical to that app working #45182
<crimsun> -updates material
<DarkMageZ> or apply the patch from upstreams bugzilla? i think they'd get really annoyed if someone created another bug report on their bugzilla about our out of date little package...
<crimsun> they're going to have to deal with it. We release on Thursday; it's Tuesday already.
<crimsun> Again, -updates material.
<DarkMageZ> hmm, can't find anything on the wiki that explains what you mean by -updates material
<crimsun> that means we'll punt into into dapper-updates
<crimsun> punt it into, rather
<DarkMageZ> ah, that makes sence
<crimsun> DarkMageZ: have you verified that this patch (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=59420&action=view) is all that's necessary for it to not crash there?
<DarkMageZ> not personally, but the developer of gwget believe's it works
<crimsun> can you verify, please?
<DarkMageZ> yeah, starting up testbox now
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Heya zul
<zul> hey bddebian
<crimsun> anyone else planning to upload universe/multiverse fixes tonight?
<bddebian> I should do something but I'm dog arse tired :-(
<bddebian> Hiya crimsun btw :-)
<LaserJock> crimsun: unfortunately maxima seems a little too intwined with gcl to get it to build easily
<crimsun> 'lo bddebian
<crimsun> LaserJock: ok, -updates, then
<bddebian> Maxima is b0rked :-)
<crimsun> DarkMageZ: please test http://sh.nu/~crimsun/gwget2/gwget_0.96-1ubuntu2~1NOTUPLOADED_i386.deb
<ajmitch> afternoon
<Toadstool> 'morning
<Toadstool> :)
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<Se7h> hi
<bddebian> Hello Se7h
<Se7h> hi bddebian
<Se7h> btw im having this error updating ntp
<Se7h> are the motus aware of that already?
<ajmitch> btw this is the wrong place to report bugs
<ajmitch> especially bugs that aren't for universe
<crimsun> ntp is a main package, and if it's the error I think was fixed in the last upload...
<Se7h> "invoke-rc.d: initscript ntp-server, action "stop" failed."
<Se7h> sorry ajmitch
<crimsun> Se7h: yes, that was fixed already.  ``apt-cache policy ntp-server''
<Se7h> oh ok crimsun
<crimsun> Candidate: 1:4.2.0a+stable-8.1ubuntu6  <-- fixed.
<DarkMageZ> crimsun, yup, that package works nicely
<crimsun> DarkMageZ: ok, thanks. We'll roll it in dapper-updates (likely) unless mdz approves it for dapper (unlikely).
<LaserJock> hehe, crimsun's talking about -updates and I'm still doing UVFes :-)
<crimsun> LaserJock: I'm thinking about my own sanity :-)
<LaserJock> yeah
<crimsun> after what I went through last release with vlc, no way I'm pressing updates in this late.
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> and people *still* file bugs on vlc whining...
<ajmitch> I'm scared
<bddebian> I guess crimsun didn't fix it then?
* bddebian ducks
<ajmitch> lewing said he had 23 patches for f-spot that he was going to send to me
<ajmitch> crimsun: it's now time for you to go off & drink until release is a distant memory?
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<bmonty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> LaserJock: Filing UVF's for pybiblio...?
<bmonty> anyone see why the packages user-es and user-de should remain in the archive?
<bmonty> they look obsolete to me and block removal of other obsolete packages
<LaserJock> bddebian: well, working on it. Somebody actually filed it for my lazy butt
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> I was going to but I didn't want to offend :-)
<LaserJock> well, this weekend packaging project kicked my butt
<bddebian> Did you get it?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why is that?
<LaserJock> I think it worked
<LaserJock> well figuring out debconf took me quite a while
<LaserJock> I'm a little slow :/
<bmonty> LaserJock: yeah, debconf is fun :)
<ajmitch> well it's a good thing they asked a real developer & not one of us ;)
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> they asked the real developers all ready
<bddebian> Doh
<LaserJock> I actually had my first conference call today to talk about it
<ajmitch> right
<LaserJock> really weird
<bmonty> LaserJock: what are you packaging?
<LaserJock> but the company is RHEL only so they aren't really knowlegeble about .deb packaging
* ajmitch is so glad none of us count as real developers then :P
<LaserJock> bmonty: it's a proprietary app
* ajmitch leaves
<bddebian> Later ajmitch
<bmonty> LaserJock: fun
<LaserJock> bmonty: they are giving Ubuntu the right to distribute, really weird
<LaserJock> I guess it's good in a way, but it makes packaging a bit harder. I didn't get any source
<bmonty> well at least you don't have to worry about the config and compile steps :)
<bmonty> or build-deps
<LaserJock> bmonty: yeah, but they have some weirdnesses because the binaries are made to work on a variety of systems
<LaserJock> I woke up this morning and said, "Thank God for Open Source Software"
<bmonty> wierd, I do that every morning also :)
<LaserJock> well, honestly I haven't really been into the OSS stuff very much, I just love linux
<bmonty> LaserJock: I know the feeling...I could never afford to buy most of the software that I can get for Linux so I get to play around with a lot of stuff I wouldn't get to otherwise
<bmonty> I can decide I want to learn about some new technology and go search for what is available in the OSS world which is very cool
<LaserJock> yeah
<bmonty> ...and my wife has taken a liking to dapper, so the last windows box in my house is about to go away
<LaserJock> oh nice
<bmonty> hmm, should my Xbox count?  That won't go away :)
<bddebian> SACRILEDGE! :_)
<LaserJock> bmonty: you can't but Ubuntu on your Xbox?
<LaserJock> I know a few theoreticaly chemistry groups use clustered xbox's for calculations
<bmonty> LaserJock: I could put ubuntu on the Xbox, but then I couldn't play Halo 2
<LaserJock> good point
<LaserJock> but I don't really play games anymore, to much Ubuntu work to do :-)
* bddebian doesn't mention that he is sitting here playing Morrowind :-)
* ajmitch is sitting here being annoyed
<LaserJock> ajmitch: annoyed?
* LaserJock sulks away
<imbrandon> bmonty, do what i do, i have linux running on all my xboxes ;)
<imbrandon> ( and yes they still play xbox games )
<ajmitch> LaserJock: uni stuff
<bmonty> imbrandon: hows Xbox Live working for you
<imbrandon> i use xkali or xbconnect
<imbrandon> most dashboards have xkali built in
<imbrandon> like xbmc
<bmonty> imbrandon: that isn't XBox Live
<imbrandon> no its not, true , but its a close experince, xblive dosent work ( ms bans moded xboxs )
<bmonty> bddebian: I was looking at some of your notes on gq, that software is very broken and no maintainer
<bmonty> hopefully ajmitch's SoC project will allow us to drop it :)
<bddebian> bmonty: Aye :-)
<bmonty> bddebian: I did get TLS and SASL to work, but I had to mess with it a lot
<Hobbsee> hi all
<dholbach> good morning motu world
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach
<dholbach> heya Hobbsee
<neutrinomass> (good morning dholbach) .desktops with Categories=Science; don't show up in the menus unless "Application'" is also in categories, yet "application" isn't a valid fd.org category :-/
<neutrinomass> Should I file this against gnome-panel ?
<dholbach> neutrinomass: I have no idea, maybe gnome-menus?
<neutrinomass> dholbach: Yeah... (I keep forgetting that package ... )
<crimsun> DarkMageZ: fix uploaded, thanks for testing and confirming. (bug 45182)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45182 in gwget2 "gwget is broken in Dapper" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45182
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:infinity] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | We are in feature freeze now. Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h (MOTU bugs) and http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu (UNMETDEPS) and http://tinyurl.com/kbxpe (mysqlclient) | http://tinyurl.com/pghsw (motureviewers) | Ubuntu upload queue in manual mode, ping infinity in #ubuntu-devel to process universe uploads m
<imbrandon> wb dholbach
<dholbach> thanks imbrandon
<crimsun> nice work, MOTU, on Dapper!
* sivang searches for before release important MOTU tasks
<\sh> moins
<dholbach> sivang: topic
* Hobbsee waves to the empty room
<pelele> Hi
<pelele> I am eraser a DVDRW from terminal, but i cant, this teach me This drive or media does not support the 'BLANK media' command
<pelele> if anyone knows something
<zul> heylo
<Hobbsee> hi zul
<zul> hey Hobbsee how is it going?
<Hobbsee> good - assignmenting.  i'm thinking i should set my computer assignment on fire.
<zul> burn baby burn....
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> i wish.
<tseng> hi
<phanatic> hi people
<phanatic> heya Hobbsee_
<Hobbsee> hi phanatic
<phanatic> :)
<phanatic> hello raphink
<raphink> hi phanatic
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Se7h> hi
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<hub> LOL. I was reading sabdfl blog on planet.ubuntu
<hub> he exactly got what I think will happen to me
<zul> is there a meeting today?
<dholbach> zul: I doubt it.
<bddebian> Heya zul, dholbach
<dholbach> hey bddebian
* zul likes to see people sweat
<bddebian> zul: ?
* zul is on crack again
<bddebian> zul: And you aren't sharing? ;-)
<zul> heh...no i been trying to get spam assain to work all morning
<einsteinmg> hi all
<Hobbsee> Kamping_Kaiser: give them the lecture for me please.  nalioth isnt around, and i'm far too tired....
<bddebian> Hello einsteinmg
<Kamping_Kaiser> Hobbsee, just crash. i'll try and remember to pull up the logs when it breaks
<Hobbsee> Kamping_Kaiser: and i really couldnt be bothered trying to fix it in a few months, when they try to upgrade...
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee crashes.  on her keyboard.
<Hobbsee> splat!
<einsteinmg> just received a mail, that a few of my packages made the way into dapper/universe :)
* Kamping_Kaiser pours Hobbsee into bed
<Hobbsee> einsteinmg: yay!
<einsteinmg> could you please send me the patches you made against my package?
<einsteinmg> there are 2 build fixes and i didn't receive a mail, could also be the case that i miss it (in this case sorry)
<Kamping_Kaiser> Hobbsee, go to bed, its only wednesday am. you have more AMs to go this week ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe...dont remind me...
<Spec> What's landscape?
<thierryn> LaserJock : could you come to ubuntu-meeting to talk about me (I helped a bit with .desktop files stuff)
<thierryn> LaserJock : I'm trying to become a community member
<LaserJock> when is it?
<bddebian> There is a CC meeting?
<thierryn> LaserJock : now
<thierryn> bddebian : yes in #ubuntu-meeting
<bddebian> Uhm, it's awfully quiet :-)
<LaserJock> dude, is anybody there?
<LaserJock> thierryn: what is your wiki page URL?
<LaserJock> nvm, I found it
<LaserJock> thierryn: congrats!
<thierryn> LaserJock : thanks , you helped a lot!
<LaserJock> I hope so, you deserve it
<LaserJock> you've been around for some time
<bddebian> Yeah thierryn.  Welcome.
<thierryn> bddebian : yeah sorry you helped too, thanks :)
<bddebian> Heh, NP
<thierryn> what is the time normally to get the approval?
<LaserJock> thierryn: hmm?
<Tonio_> hey
<thierryn> LaserJock : well I went to the webpage Kamion told me and it says I'm waiting for approval...
<thierryn> LaserJock : never mind, got it
<LaserJock> are uploads to Universe frozen?
<crimsun> yes and no
<crimsun> no -> you can upload, but you'll have to wait on infinity to manually run the publisher
<crimsun> yes -> infinity is very busy with testing
<crimsun> so for all practical purposes, I'd would abide by the following guideline:
<crimsun> if the change isn't trivial (a couple lines) /and/ doesn't fix a showstopper, queue it for -updates
<LaserJock> ok, I just uploaded a 1 line fixer, I didn't realize we were that close :/
<crimsun> you'll need to ping infinity to process it, then.
<LaserJock> crimsun: thanks
<cbx33> anyone here know about teh testing matrix on the wiki
<cbx33> I just tested the install CD for edubuntu using the use freespace option but it's not on the matrix
<cbx33> should I add it, or have I just wasted an hour
<dholbach> cbx33: ask sfllaw on #ubuntu-devel and/or ogra
<dholbach> cbx33: and thanks for testing!
<cbx33> dholbach, np
<cbx33> dholbach, I'm trying to get 4 possibly 5 installs done tonight
<dholbach> cbx33: you rock
<dholbach> thanks for that
<cbx33> np
<cbx33> we don;t get that many testers fro edubuntu
<cbx33> howz it all going your end?
<dholbach> did quite a bunch of installations already
<dholbach> looking good
<cbx33> excellent
<ogra> dholbach, yeah he rocks, he'll get the "Dr.Hc Edubuntu" title
<cbx33> thanks ogra  :D
<cbx33> y'all rock too now ya hear me :p
<dholbach> :-)))
<ogra> :D
<LaserJock> face it guys (an Hobbsee) we all rock! ;-)
<cbx33> hehe well yup we do
* cbx33 's head grows so big he can't fit out the dorr
<LaserJock> except his typos will shrink it back down a bit ;-)
<Spec> wait, there was a CC meeting today?
<cbx33> LaserJock, :p
<LaserJock> Spec: yes
<Spec> so, how does one get notified of a CC meeting? ;p
<Spec> it's not ever mentioned on ubuntu-motu-request
<LaserJock> umm fridge.ubuntu.com
<crimsun> It's a good time to close off universe/multiverse for good.
<LaserJock> crimsun: why?
<LaserJock> before we do anymore breaking, I mean fixing ;-)
<crimsun> yes, and I honestly don't think we can find that many more such fixes
<crimsun> plus infinity/keybuk are frazzled already
<LaserJock> yeah, watching -devel make me glad I'm not a core-dev or on the release team
<LaserJock> hehe, I wonder what would happen if somebody joined -devel an said "I Dapper out yet?" ;-)
<LaserJock> *IS
<bddebian> LaserJock: Try it! :)
<LaserJock> heck no
<LaserJock> I want to make it back from Paris alive :-)
<bddebian> Bah
<LaserJock> bddebian: you try it, according to you they already hate you ;-)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-31
<crimsun> LaserJock: apparently your upload made it in :-)
<LaserJock> just saw that, \o/
<ogra> lol
<ogra> the only universe package that made it in after the freeze is a fix for ia64 ?
<ogra> thats funny :)
<ogra> congrats LaserJock :)
<azeem> yay!
<sivang> LOL
<LaserJock> it was all for azeem
<azeem> #   dapper ia64   Successfully built
<azeem> hah!
<LaserJock> \o/
<LaserJock> I gotta keep azeem happy so he will sponsor my Debian uploads ;-)
<azeem> heh :)
<ajmitch> afternoon
<crimsun> 'lo
<ajmitch> I guess I lost out on getting f-spot updated before release :)
<crimsun> with all dozen patches? :-)
<ajmitch> *cough*
<ajmitch> only 23 !
<ajmitch> it's like a new upstream version
<ajmitch> which is why I'd be wary of uploading even if uploads weren't queued
<crimsun> quick, upload while kamion's offering! :-)
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> I don't have the patches yet
<ajmitch> I can't really test cd images when rsync goes at 10K/sec
<ajmitch> quite sad really
* ajmitch blames his isp
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Kyral> hey God :P
<bddebian> pfft
<crimsun> just to let you know, bddebian, I plan to funnel all main uploads through you :p
<ajmitch> might as well
<bddebian> Why, I won't get in anyway
<crimsun> your lp->packages begs to differ :p
<bddebian> ??
<crimsun> (the packages link on your LP page)
<crimsun> anyhow, thanks for everyone's work on dapper :-)
* ajmitch didn't do anything
<ajmitch> I suppose I'll have to try & do some work on edgy
<crimsun> well, I guess we all kinda pale in comparison on bddebian :p
<crimsun> s/on/to/
<bddebian> ajmitch: Bah :-)
<bddebian> crimsun: What Packages link??
<crimsun> this one-> https://launchpad.net/people/bddebian/+packages
<ajmitch> crimsun: he'll get in if doko doesn't lynch him first
<bddebian> What for the vnc4 thing?
<crimsun> no, the list of packages you've worked on
<bmonty> damn, I wish I knew about that packaging link earlier
<bddebian> crimsun: No, I meant ajmitch
<bddebian> s comment about doko
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes, for that
* ajmitch had better go now
<bddebian> Later ajmitch
<crimsun> later ajmitch
<crimsun> guess it's time to resume poring through these security issues
<bmonty> crimsun: is there a list somewhere?
<crimsun> bmonty: debian's DSAs
<LaserJock> hi guys
<bmonty> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> I can't believe Dapper is almost out the door
<bddebian> :)
<Lathiat> yeh odd isnt it :)
<Lathiat> its like just yesterday every dist-upgrade was a round of russian roulette..
<LaserJock> this is the first release I've seen from start to finish
<Lathiat> oh? cool
<bddebian> Lathiat: :-)
* Kyral looks on from the outside
<Kyral> Good luck guys
* Lathiat has decided to get cracking on documentation next release
<Lathiat> i discovered we had some.. and its quite good but much in need of love :)
<Kyral> I won't be around
<LaserJock> yeah, that is cool
<Kyral> sorry guys
<Lathiat> i had no idea we had what we do tho, it looks pretty cool
<Lathiat> i dont usually read docs i just muddle my way thrtough things.. :)
<Lathiat> Kyral: ah how come?
<LaserJock> Kyral: you're welcome to hang out here
<Kyral> I can't settle down on one distro yet
<Kyral> I want to learn all about how every distro does things
<Lathiat> You don't have to, ubuntu has like 4 sub-distros to settle on ;)
* bddebian has decided to turn in his gpg key and become a hermit :-)
<Kyral> No its one distro
<LaserJock> bddebian: whatever
<Kyral> Just different default configs
<Lathiat> and packages
<Lathiat> :)
<Kyral> No
<Kyral> they all pull from the same repos
<bddebian> LaserJock: Bah :-)
<Lathiat> "I'm sorry sir, but I'm afraid you'll have to turn in your gpg key"
<Lathiat> Kyral: *default* packages ;)
<Kyral> which == configs
<Kyral> ANYWAY
<Lathiat> . arguably ;p
<Lathiat> dont worry
<Kyral> Like I was saying, every distro is a representation of what someone thinks is the perfect distro
<Lathiat> you can trip to any other distro and besides probably debian you'll come crawling back ;)
<Lathiat> thats true
<LaserJock> Lathiat: you should help with the Packaging Guide for edgy ;-)
<Lathiat> LaserJock: info?
<Lathiat> LaserJock: i take it its a newbies guide?
<LaserJock> it's on doc.ubuntu.com
<Kyral> Lathiat: Actually I like Arch more :P
<Lathiat> Kyral: bad kyral, bad bad kyral *g*
<LaserJock> Lathiat: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html in particular
<Lathiat> ah yep, i see
<LaserJock> Lathiat: it's also in ubuntu-docs package
<Lathiat> ah, looks good
<LaserJock> it still needs a lot of work
* Lathiat nods
<Kyral> I figure if I try out everyone's version of perfection then I will find out my own in end
<Lathiat> Kyral: Thats the part where you start your own distro :)
<Kyral> bingo :P
<tseng> hi Lathiat
<Lathiat> $)(*!@$ if k3b plays that stupid trumpet sound once more im going to switch back to gnome
<Kyral> How'd you know that was my goal? :P
<Lathiat> howdy tseng :)
<LaserJock> Kyral: the one thing I would say is that Ubuntu isn't so much one persons's version of a perfect distro
<LaserJock> as the communities version
<Kyral> Same could be said of Arch
<LaserJock> *community's
<Lathiat> i should try out evolution in an environment where you use pop and stuff, i've only ever used it with imap (and found it relatively useless at that)
<Kyral> Judd started it, but the community came around it with the AUR
* Lathiat be back in 5
<Kyral> Actually there is an Italian distro that combines Ubuntu with Pacman
<bddebian> Kyral: I'm still waiting on Hurd!!! ;-)
<Kyral> hai hai
<Kyral> lemme get it installed
<Kyral> The HURD, BSD, and GNU/Solaris are also part of this Open Source field trip :P
<LaserJock> good luck :-)
<Kyral> I already have BSD going :P
<Kyral> But yah, good job guys
<Kyral> I prolly won't become MOTU, but I'll still be around in #ubuntu
<bddebian> Good man :-)
<LaserJock> woot! I got my passport today!
<bddebian> Nice
<bddebian> Did you do the two week rush job? :-)
<LaserJock> I was getting worried
<LaserJock> yes
<bddebian> Yeah, I did that when I went to FOSDEM last year
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<LaserJock> but I didn't see it on the online status so I didn't even know it got to the state department
<bddebian> Eeks
<bddebian> GNight folks
* Hobbsee waves to the room
* Mithrandir waves to Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir
* Hobbsee runs quickly before being tickled
<dholbach> good morning
<sivang> morning all
<highvoltage> morning sivang
<phanatic> hi people
<philbull> hi guys, i'm having a problem with a patch
<philbull> see bug 47428
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47428 in kmatplot "no .desktop file" [Minor,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47428
<philbull> i don't know what file to edit to install the icon/.desktop file
<crimsun> which issue are you referring to, 1) the binary part, or 2) the actually moving of the icon/desktop file/s?
<crimsun> actual^
<philbull> well, i now have the icon and .desktop under the debian/ dir
<philbull> but how can I install them to the correct locations?
<crimsun> philbull: you need to install them in debian/rules
<philbull> is it normal for that file to be a perl script, though?
<philbull> i don't know any perl...
<crimsun> normal? eh, not really, but I suppose it can be anything as long as it does the job
<philbull> there are 2 files in debian/
<philbull> debianrules (which seems to do something) and rules, which is really short and doesn't have any of the 'normal' dh_ stuff in it
* crimsun updates his dapper pbuilder
<philbull> (I'm totally new to this BTW)
<crimsun> ugh, I keep trying to use an external mouse that isn't connected. Too tired.
<philbull> he
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> you can sleep soon crimsun :P
<Hobbsee> philbull: that's cdbs, btw....
<philbull> ?
<Hobbsee> you *should* just be able to include kde.mk, i *think*
<Hobbsee> i'm not positive on that though, give me a min
<Hobbsee> philbull: that short rules file - it's made by cdbs.
<philbull> aha
<crimsun> hmm, but grep -nHr 'dh_desktop' *  doesn't reveal anything useful for kde
<Hobbsee> philbull: you'd have to check other sources, to see if/how they copied icons, but maybe this will help https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2503191
<crimsun> in /usr/share/cdbs/1, that is
<Hobbsee> crimsun: presumably that's done in debhelper.mk
<crimsun> that's under rules/, which is searched via -r
<crimsun> yeah, it looks like you'll still have to do this manually.
<Hobbsee> drat - but kde.mk should be in there for a kde program..
<Hobbsee> i think
<crimsun> let's look at kdenetwork.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: you were on the right track. You'd need to include debian-qt-kde.mk
<Hobbsee> crimsun: hmmm...havent seen that one used a lot, but okay
<crimsun> those aren't distributed as part of cdbs
<crimsun> they're part of the diff.gz
<Hobbsee> ah...
<Hobbsee> ah okya
<Hobbsee> well, found out how kpowersave puts in it's icon...
<philbull> i'm still lost :(
<crimsun> darned mouse :/
* Hobbsee hands crimsun a feather duster to try to use instead.
<Hobbsee> sarah@sarah:~/Desktop/kpowersave-0.6.0/debian$ cat install
<Hobbsee> debian/kpowersave.xpm usr/share/pixmaps
<Hobbsee> is there, if that helps...
<imbrandon>  omg people make me so mad sometimes ........ i need a ummm cigarette
<crimsun> philbull: ok, looking at the source package for kmatplot, you should ignore debian/debianrules and debian/rules.old
<crimsun> philbull: neither of those are even used
<Hobbsee> (and why are they in there in teh first place???)
<crimsun> historical $baggage  is my guess
<philbull> ok
<crimsun> philbull: probably the easiest way to get the xpm into the correct place is to use an .install file like Hobbsee alluded to
<Hobbsee> crimsun: and then the menu file mentions the icon file.  but i cant seem to find where the menu file gets installed - maybe that's inside debhelper.mk?
<crimsun> philbull: now the binary issue is going to cause some issues unless you uuencode, so I think you'll want to use another format
<philbull> i'll use the .xpm if that'll work?
<crimsun> philbull: that's the binary issue I'm referring to.
<crimsun> philbull: I'm pretty certain you'll want to use the method that raphink blogged about
<crimsun> Hobbsee: but that's in debian/debianrules, which is obsolete and not used at all currently
<Hobbsee> crimsun: as in, the menu file is mentioned there?  i didnt check that, knowing that it wasnt used.
<philbull> crimsun: do you have a link to that blog?
<crimsun> Hobbsee: the current menu file doesn't have an icon reference
<crimsun> philbull: drilling down via google...
<Hobbsee> crimsun: what's this then?  http://pastebin.com/748742
<crimsun> Hobbsee: you're looking at kpowersave; I'm looking at kmatplot :-)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: that is true - i was looking at an example file...
<crimsun> (as in what philbull's working on)
<crimsun> aha
<Hobbsee> well, yeah...okay then.  add it to the menu file, perhaps?
<Hobbsee> dinner
<crimsun> it always helps if I tweak the search terms: http://www.raphink.info/adding-icons-to-debian-packages
<Hobbsee|away> hehe
<crimsun> philbull: see above url
<philbull> thanks
<dholbach> hey crimsun, philbull, Hobbsee|away
<philbull> hmmm, that seems to need a 'nice' debian/rules
<philbull> hey dholbach
<philbull> is there anywhere in the package i could just call a custom script from?
<dholbach> script for doing what?
<crimsun> hi dholbach, thanks for pushing the great artwork :-)
<crimsun> philbull: you can use cdbs hooks
<dholbach> crimsun: thanks a lot - it was mostly the designer's work - but still it meant quite some work for me, so thanks for the praise. :-)
<crimsun> :-)
<crimsun> philbull: I have to go give a presentation soon, but look at the "post-install actions" portion of the "Basic custom build rules" section at https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<sivang> crimsun: what is the preentation going to be about? :)
<philbull> crimsun: thanks, i'll take a look this afternoon
<philbull> thanks for all your help guys, hopefully i can get it to work...
<crimsun> sivang: boring stuff like "how $sponsor's money's is justified being spent on our projects" :-)
<crimsun> philbull: np
<philbull> :D
<sivang> crimsun: hehe
<sivang> crimsun: good luck, may I ask what is the project? :)
<crimsun> sivang: classifier systems for autonomous agents
<sivang> oh crap, it seems I can't write to swirl:/sys/block/sda/queue/iosched , they are all readonly even for root
<crimsun> (representing state changes, etc.)
<sivang> crimsun: oh nice, doing an AI phd?
<sivang> or masters?
<crimsun> sivang: no, totally outside my realm, I'm just helping with research this summer and got dragged in :-)
<sivang> well, cool! who knows, you might be drawn into it.
<sivang> I know few people who did only one project and became Ph.D's in it :p
<crimsun> :-)
<sivang> one of them is my gf's sis's husband
<sivang> he's into preference elicitation,
<sivang> and some other stuff related to automatic learning
<crimsun> ah cool
<sivang> he teches in www.technion.ac.il
<crimsun> yeah, adaptation/learning is part of this project, too, but I'm not sure if I'll get to it
<sivang> anyway, do you have any idea why I can't write to those nodes at /sys/block/sda/queue/iosched/antic_expire ?
<sivang> the doc says if you set it to zero, it will act like the deadline schd
<crimsun> I don't think those are exposed via /proc, so you have to change them before compiling
<sivang> ah
<sivang> k, thanks, will just switch to the deadline policy then
<crimsun> I haven't tested cfq or deadline, but they're worth checking
<sivang> what does cfq stands for?
<crimsun> complete fair queueing iirc
<sivang> okay, thanks for all the info Daniel
<sivang> good luck on the presentation
<crimsun> thanks, good luck w/ the tuning :-)
<sivang> heh, thanks, I hope I will put this machine to behave like it cost :p
<sivang> becuase at the moment it acts like in old PIII-800Mhz with 5400RPM hd :p
<Hobbsee|away> hi dholbach
<cyberix> Will Dapper be released on time tomorrow?
<cyberix> And what time ;-)
<sladen> cyberix: "tomorrow"
<Mithrandir> it's not useful to ask "are we there yet", so please don't.
<Toadstool> hi all
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: are we there yet?  *ducks* :P
<Mithrandir> you're poor at trolling today.
<Mithrandir> :-P
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: you mean i'm good on other days?
<Mithrandir> better than this attempt, at least, yes.
<Mithrandir> some days good, other days a bit less good
<Hobbsee> hmmm...well seeing as i try not to troll at all...
<Mithrandir> never?
<Hobbsee> most of the time...
<Hobbsee> besides, i thought the aim was to stop the trolls, not be one :P
<sivang> oh well, deadline io scheduler is a bit better, but did not help much multitasking io tasks
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I guess.  Just tired and really wanting to get this dragon out the door now.
* Hobbsee hugs Mithrandir - from what i see, you're doing okay.  and you can have a nice rest when this is over
<Viper12> Well, been channel hopping.  if you all are truly the masters then tell me please  has the latest go round of updates borked firestarter?  Because after the latest round it will no longer start on my system. (clean dapper, no changes to repositories other than multi/universe).
<Viper12> Well that shut the crowd up. ;)
<Hobbsee> Viper12: heh - most people arent around here anyway
<Hobbsee> they're busy doing release-stuff...
<Viper12> Oh I know that.  This issue that just popped up does seem a bit more important than 'does yer comp iz work? or hows alsa-oss today", but noone is responding. lol  murphy's law.
<Hobbsee> Viper12: i dont use firestarter, sorry...
<zul> heylo
<Hobbsee> hi zul
<zul> hey Hobbsee how is it going?
<Hobbsee> zul: alright, know anything about firestarter?
<zul> isnt that the gnome firewall?
<zul> other than that...no
<Hobbsee> hehe.  yes
<Viper12> yes
<Viper12> and oh har har. :D
<zul> i only did a patch for it thats about it
<Viper12> well, as of today's updates it barfs when starting with a gTK-warning.
<Hobbsee> i see
<Viper12> acutally an Xlib "refused by server" and THEN a the gtk  cannot open display error.
<bmonty_away> Viper12: try starting it on the command line with gksudo
<Viper12> already did. and rebooted twice just to verify the issue wasn't something goofy.  It comes up with the same error.  No changes to this system since yesterday OTHER than the last round of updates a little while ago.
<zul> works fine here
<Viper12> It worked fine here as well, until I decided to reboot the system.
<Viper12> going to reinstall the application.  Just very odd that on a 'clean' system, this particular application would go 'south'.
<Viper12> dang odd.  It indicates that is stopped the firewall....reinstalled and then started it.  No icon, or any indication that its running via ps or system monitor.  scratching head.  trying to start the app is giving the same xlib and gtk error now..again. shrugs.
<Viper12> grepping shows no process running either.
<Viper12> Well, I submitted a bug report, so ve shall see.
<zul> Viper12: i cant reproduce it
<Viper12> I can.  snicker.
<Viper12> just submitted #47662
<Viper12> Really caught me off guard as the last couple weeks of updates (other than that night where the restricted drivers were 'late') have been rock solid for this system.
<Viper12> okay, ran strace...now, what am I looking for in that spaghetti ?
<Viper12> oh bugger. lol. wrong channel.  mah bad.
<coz_> hey all
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hiya Hobbsee and again LaserJock ;-)
<siretart> fabo: hrhr. nice try... ;)
<fabo> :p
<siretart> fabo: boy, the archive has already been closed...
<LaserJock> hi siretart
<Hobbsee> hi siretart
* Hobbsee guesses that all the devs can sleep now :P
<siretart> huhu LaserJock, hi Hobbsee
<siretart> fabo: yes, dapper is closed
<bddebian> Doh :-(
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<fabo> k
<siretart> huhu bddebian
<siretart> fabo: please ask me in channel
<fabo> k
<fabo> so about my wishlist ?
<siretart> fabo: I don't remember, sry
<fabo> is it possible to have package name on bugs subjects e.g. :
<fabo> [Motu-reviewers]  [Bug XXXXX]  [PackageName] 
<fabo> like for COMMENT and UPDATE :
<fabo> [Motu-reviewers]  [REVU] [COMMENT]  for PackageName
<siretart> hm. good idea. could you please write sistpoty a mail about it?
<fabo> ok
<Mithrandir> ew, terrible idea.  Filter by the headers set by launchpad instead.
<LaserJock> Mithrandir: I find it often very difficult to find what package a bug is reported against in the Malone emails
<LaserJock> putting something in the title would be nice, even putting it in the body would help
<Mithrandir> LaserJock: filter each package into its own folder, then.
<Mithrandir> or munge the subjects locally
<LaserJock> ?
<siretart> Mithrandir: those mails are generated by revu, not by launchpad
<Mithrandir> hmkay
* Hobbsee just wants an option in launchpad to search by last updated!
<Mithrandir> order by, I presume?
<LaserJock> I just want to be able to know what package an email is talking about
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: that's the one.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: yeah, that would be handy
* Hobbsee pokes siretart for it :P - that needs a mail for sistpoty too?
<highvoltage> a RecentChanges for Launchpad would be nice.
<siretart> Hobbsee: you are completly right to poke me about revu. unfortunately,  I didn't find time to continue coding on revu2 :( - its my fault
<Hobbsee> siretart: not revu.  just malone :)
<Spec> so the release is at 12:00, right? ;)
<LaserJock> it's done when it's done
<ogra> Spec, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current if all or nearly all fields of all the tables have at least one "PASS" in them
<ogra> feel free to test yourself and add some PASS notes ;)
<Spec> you mean ... work?
<Spec> :p
<vdepizzol> hi everybody
<vdepizzol> there are any style guideline for tangerine icons theme?
<LaserJock> are those tango? or is that different?
<ogra> vdepizzol, probably a question for #ubuntu-art :)
<vdepizzol> thanks, ogra :)
<ogra> or might be -artwork, i wanst in there for quite some time
<ogra> *wasnt
<Spec> most of the stuff for x86 is PASSed it seems
<ogra> Spec, only PASS counts (not the ones with the build number)
<Spec> only need one per box, right?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> at least
<ogra> the more the better
<Spec> I'll test "Alternate CD, expert", I can find method of testing that in testing/long?
<Spec> maybe not
<crimsun> bigcx2: what I said regarding edgy holds.
<crimsun> it will be synced automatically since it's already in sid.
<crimsun> pretty shiny (new) packaging, too, judging from packages.qa
<bigcx2> ok, thats fine but i need in dapper so what would be the proper route of action to get it backported from edgy
<crimsun> you will need to pbuild it yourself and test it to verify that it can be built in dapper using edgy source
<crimsun> then you will need to request a backport
<bigcx2> i have built it for dapper, we are using it internally on our mirrors
<bigcx2> so the question still stands
<bigcx2> how do i request a backport
<crimsun> you'll need to ask the archive team to do that /once edgy opens/
<bigcx2> alright...and the archive team consists of....
<crimsun> the ubuntu-archive launchpad team
<bigcx2> ok sounds good
<bigcx2> thanks
<crimsun> do not assign the bug to them
<crimsun> I repeat, do /not/ assign it to them. Subscribe them.
<crimsun> (they will punch you in the face)
<bigcx2> haha
<bigcx2> alright
<tseng> bddebian: i am going on a business trip until friday
<tseng> bddebian: no party
<bddebian> d000d..
<adolson> I am having a party for Dapper right now.. in my pants
<bddebian> Uhm, TMI
<bddebian> :-)
<cbx33> yuk
<cbx33> I side with bddebian on that one
<adolson> come on, Ubuntu is hawt
<crimsun> bddebian: deities can stomach anything.
<cbx33> but not cack ya pants hawt
* bddebian pokes crimsun
<crimsun> ow.
* cbx33 joins in
<cbx33> poke poke poke
<adolson> I have a feeling some of the guys here tomorrow might be downloading Dapper and trying it.. I'm the only one here running Ubuntu at the moment, but they talk a lot about it and are counting down the hours kinda thing
* cbx33 hides his stick
<LaserJock> adolson: yeah know, they could get the current daily and have it right now
<crimsun> yeah, I've been holding off saying that in #ubuntu...
<bddebian> heh
<adolson> that's what I am running, LJ
<crimsun> I'm running bddebianOS.
<bddebian> OK, you've forced my hand
* bddebian kills himself
<adolson> when I installed it, one of the guys questioned why I was installing a beta.. so I think it's a mentality here that you don't generally do that
<LaserJock> bddebian: you can't your immortal
<crimsun> "...and rose again on the third day"
<bddebian> Ack, I have to go shovel dirt.. :'-(  Later folks
<crimsun> cya
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-01
<Kyral> Is anyone else really annoyed with all the OMFG Dapper is coming out countdowns?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> very
<Kyral> You wanna see me blow my lid, go to #ubuntuforums
<ajmitch> no thanks
<Kyral> good, because my BOFH is in full effect
* ajmitch doesn't care any more
<ajmitch> I've got enough actual work to do to keep me busy for awhile
<Kyral> Oh thats great, some idiot is threatening to report me
* ajmitch has to arrange getting a couple of servers moved across campus somehow
<Kyral> yah I also have been working on this program for like the past week and it still doesn't work
* Kyral catches his anger before he detonates in here
<crimsun> don't worry, it's never worth exploding over OMG $newVersion
<crimsun> I just think of the poor kittens
<Kyral> I got them back
<crimsun> and our staggering bug reports
<Kyral> I cat'd /dev/random to the channel :P
<ajmitch> very mature
<Kyral> Actually I did it to see if I could :P
<ajmitch> even more mature..
<ajmitch> there are plenty of things that can be done, that shouldn't
<Kyral> I told you I was in a bad mood
<ajmitch> then avoid irc
<Kyral> Jeez, these guys are acting like the HURD went stable suddenly
* ajmitch should dist-upgrade the T2000 
<ajmitch> except that it'll take a little while to do :)
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> might as well get in before the post-release rush on the datacentre
<crimsun> you have a good 10 hours or so :-)
<ajmitch> it'll take that long
<ajmitch> 326 upgraded, 14 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<ajmitch> Need to get 271MB of archives.
<ajmitch> at ~50K/sev
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> this is why the server is getting moved
<Kyral> I actually have to get around to putting the HURD on that old box I have...
<ajmitch> why bother?
<Kyral> You know what else to stick on a Pentium 1?
<Kyral> that you got for free?
<ajmitch> how much ram does it have?
<Kyral> No idea
<Kyral> I have never booted it lol
<ajmitch> you'll probably need at *least* 64MB to use the Hurd in anyway
<ajmitch> last I tried on an old box, it didn't even boot with 16MB
<Toadstool> heya
<ajmitch> hi
<Toadstool> hi ajmitch
<Toadstool> /me's kinda tired after a 26h hours without sleep "day" but heya ;)
<Toadstool> otoh i feel like a moron when I see the real ubuntu devs work ^^
<ajmitch> only 26 hours?
<Toadstool> yep, and 5 days trip to Dublin which is a really nice place :)
<ajmitch> heh
<xhaker> omg #ubuntu is a mess right now.. too much traffic :P
<xhaker> ajmitch do you know any disk managment utility that is capable of showing the location of the files on disk graphically or somthing
<Toadstool> xhaker: you should have a look at #ubuntu-fr, 3AM and it's still crowded...
<xhaker> i'm suspecting my dapper .isos are scattered through my disk
<Toadstool> I've never seen that much people so late...
<xhaker> i'm moving to the home partiton to see the effect..
<xhaker> Toadstool: it's even later there
<Toadstool> :)
<xhaker> their +1 or +2 from me
* xhaker lives in Portugal
<Toadstool> wow :)
<xhaker> they're as in "they are"
<xhaker> i'm proving it's late here by doing kiddie spelling mistake
<xhaker> s*
<crimsun> we have another 8 hours or so to go
<xhaker> crimsun: what's left?
<crimsun> xhaker: the announcement
<crimsun> only then will the chaos truly ensue
<xhaker> i see kubuntu announcement is still being drafted out
<xhaker> crimsum.. do you happen to know any utility that provides the feature i described earlier?
<xhaker> i just want to see a general view of how my data is stored on the disk.. or maybe.. in how many chunks is some ISO split
<xhaker> reminder: i will never use axel again
<crimsun> xhaker: not off the top of my head
<Toadstool> g'night everybody
<xhaker> crimsun: would you think more than 40% fragmentation on a ext3 drive is bad?
<xhaker> it must be.. rsync struggles
<crimsun> yeah, that might be a bit much
* ajmitch wouldn't think it'd be too bad unless the disk was quite full
<ajmitch> you can't see how files are laid out in the disk since it's fs-independant
<crimsun> ah yes, if it's at 90% that would be bad
<crimsun> 90% full with 40% frag == yikes
<xhaker> :(
<ajmitch> scary
<ajmitch> I've got a 93% full /usr/local
<ajmitch> of course most of that is taken with a dd snapshot of an old disk
<ajmitch> but it's a ~410GB logical volume
<xhaker> i guess sharing a 45gb ext3 partition with windows(games OS) is not so smart
<ajmitch> no, it's not
<ajmitch> trusting windows to do the right thing with ext3 is asking a bit much
<xhaker> it wouldn't be better using FAT
<xhaker> Dump: 2918/5931008 files (39.0% non-contiguous), 7705161/11831863 blocks
<ajmitch> xhaker: so that's a very empty filesystem
<xhaker> it's non performant though
<xhaker> i think the problem is that i downloaded the isos in 100 parts
<xhaker> chunks, whatever
<xhaker> using axel
<xhaker> i thought it would alloc the space smarter
<ajmitch> space allocation is something for the filesystem driver to do
<ajmitch> if you wrote it on windows, wouldn't surprise me that the driver decides to fragment
<xhaker> no.. wrote it on linux
<xhaker> rsync takes 10 minutes to start in that partition
<ajmitch> rsync does an md5sum of the image you're copying, iirc
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<xhaker> ajmitch but it takes only 1min in this other partition
<xhaker> it must be something related to file location
<ajmitch> then it's broken
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi ajmitch
<bmonty> ajmitch: have you had a chance to look at the Kerberos stuff I've been working on?
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<bmonty> hi bddebian
<turboSeX> has drake been released?
<crimsun> no.
<ajmitch> no.
<turboSeX> any idea about what time?
* ajmitch thinks they should delay the release 5 minutes everytime someone asks
<ajmitch> turboSeX: when it's done
<turboSeX> :)
<crimsun> ajmitch: welcome to debian sarge ;-)
<ajmitch> crimsun: hey etch *will* release this year
<crimsun> true
<ajmitch> it's even going to freeze soon :)
<crimsun> maybe I should say, "welcome to duke nukem forever"
<bddebian> haha
<turboSeX> is it true etch will support xgl by default?
<ajmitch> approved etch release goals...
<ajmitch> > - SELinux support
<ajmitch> > - pervasive ipv6 support
<ajmitch> sweet :)
<ajmitch> turboSeX: I don't know, why don't you ask them?
<turboSeX> ajmitch: them??
<ajmitch> etch == debian
<turboSeX> ajmitch: are you not the them?
<crimsun> etch? xgl? god that's nuts.
<turboSeX> ajmitch: ohh, i wanted to say eft
<turboSeX> ajmitch: that was my mistake, it was a confusion
<ajmitch> *nothing* has been decided on for edgy
<ajmitch> there are suggestions
<turboSeX> ajmitch: i heard eft will be quite edgy (experimental), so will it support xgl?
<turboSeX> i see
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<ajmitch> how are you? :)
<turboSeX> what about selinux in eft?
<bddebian> Heya dholbach
<ajmitch> turboSeX: maybe
<turboSeX> is there any official eft channel?
<ajmitch> no
<dholbach> hey ajmitch, bddebian - hello everybody else
<ajmitch> considering that we're all just finishing up getting dapper done, it's a little early for it
<dholbach> and edgy will be VERY broken in the first days - muhuhauhuahahahaha
<ajmitch> it'll be great!
* ajmitch can't wait to throw all sorts of things in ;)
<Gloubiboulga> morning motu world
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hey bddebian
<ajmitch> dholbach: so do you have pet goals for edgy that you want to work on yet?
<dholbach> ajmitch: lots of things to do, yeah
<crimsun> daniel's going to fix all of apt-get.org, wooo!
<ajmitch> yay!
<bddebian> hehe
<turboSeX> crimsun: was it worth the six weeks delay?
<ajmitch> bddebian is going to fix all the malone bugs!
<crimsun> turboSeX: to me? certainly.
<crimsun> all of malone? rockin'!
<bddebian> ajmitch: Suuure :-)
<dholbach> turboSeX: ABSO *f.cking* lutely
* ajmitch is going to sit & drink!
<turboSeX> crimsun: regarding features, or only bugfixes?
<turboSeX> dholbach: i see
<dholbach> ajmitch: gnome 2.15.x for Edgy, merge back with Debian (this is enough already) - catching up with 24967246246 of bug reports
<ajmitch> crimsun: how about 1 drink for every bug bddebian fixes?
<bddebian> w000t
<ajmitch> dholbach: oh yes, I've got a large backlog of debian stuff to do
<dholbach> ajmitch: I think we're going to get 2.14.x into dapper-updates and after that, there might be pet goals :)
* ajmitch has 2 main goals for egdy - network auth & selinux
<ajmitch> and learning how to spell
* bddebian has 1 goal.  To win back dholbach's love ;-P
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> he loves you!
<turboSeX> ajmitch: will selinux have some frontend?
<ajmitch> turboSeX: what do you mean by frontend?
<turboSeX> ajmitch: some control pannel which could simplify some administration tasks
<dholbach> turboSeX: internationalisation, UI was improved during that time and other specifications finished and of course bugs fixed
<dholbach> turboSeX: so it was worth it, even if we now have a shorter release cycle
<ajmitch> iff you mean runtime options like boolean options, modular policy loading, then probably
<turboSeX> which xorg does dapper support 7.0 or 7.1?
<turboSeX> dholbach: yes, the release cycle will be three months shorter for eft than it was for drake
<crimsun> 7.0.
<ajmitch> 6 weeks, not 3 months
<ajmitch> which is just a month & a half
<crimsun> you know, whenever elmo begins a statement with "uh" I quake in my boots
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> I worry
<ajmitch> he picked up a few universe packages that have crackful files in them
<ajmitch> 1 of which I knew about but didn't have time to fix up
<bddebian> crimsun: :-)
<ajmitch> 06:41 < elmo> build/buildd/pointless-0.5/debian/pointless/usr/share/pointless/README universe/misc/pointless
<ajmitch> 06:41 < elmo> build/buildd/python-4suite-0.99cvs20050418/4Suite/build/share/Dashboard/4ss-netscape.css universe/python/python2.4-4suite
<ajmitch> so many more bugs we could have fixed
* ajmitch was just too lazy
* bddebian tried :'-(
<ajmitch> you tried more than most of us
<bddebian> I got in the game late on Dapper though.  Freakin' work got in the way :'-(
<ajmitch> soon you'll be able to do all of our main uploads for us
<bddebian> Doubtful
<ajmitch> why do you doubt?
<bddebian> A) I'm still considering withdrawing my name
<bddebian> B) I don't think they will take me
<crimsun> man if I could punch someone via TCP/IP, I'd punch bddebian right in the knees
<ajmitch> fight! fight!
<crimsun> both of those reasons are so bad.
<crimsun> at least say, "I didn't buy infinity a pony"
<ajmitch> they are bad
<ajmitch> infinity will be forever sad about that
<bddebian> C) I didn't buy infinity a pony
<crimsun> ok, C) is legit
<dholbach> so how are the release party preparations going?
<crimsun> mine are waiting til the weekend I think
<dholbach> mine will be friday night
<crimsun> excellent!
<dholbach> yeah, and I got QUITE a bunch of mails asking where my place is, so I guess it'll be crowded :)
* ajmitch has no party planned
* bddebian either :'-(
<Gloubiboulga> the -fr locoteam has planned an install party next saturday, which will end in bars and restaurants :)
<bddebian> Ack, I have to get to bed.  Gnight folks
<Gloubiboulga> gnight bddebian
<crimsun> man, I'm beginning to wish our default background really was ponies
<dholbach> install party - guys I had enough of install party the last days
<ajmitch> hehe
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<ajmitch> crimsun: we'd never be ponyless again
<crimsun> Gloubiboulga: it has to start in the bars
* dholbach signed up for edgy-changes
* ajmitch should as well
<Gloubiboulga> crimsun, I'll suggest the idea :)
<dholbach> alias uch='dch -Dedgy'
<dholbach> -Dedgy is just too weird to type :)
<crimsun> hehe
<ajmitch> -dodgy
<ajmitch> I should setup an edgy pbuilder soon as well
<ajmitch> might as well just copy the dapper base & config
* dholbach -> shower
<jabra> we have an eta for the release?
<ajmitch> jabra: when it's done
<jabra> figured so
<crimsun> I am chuckling at people spidering releases.ubuntu.com by hand trying to guess the images' locations.
<jabra> heh
<ajmitch> how foolish
<ajmitch> nothing will happen until kamion & mdz are at the office, or they decide to hit the minibar at the hotel before lunch :)
* ajmitch wouldn't blame then
<crimsun> :-)
<ajmitch> ok, pbuilder setup ready for edgy
<ajmitch> we'll probably have a few weeks of intense workload with merge bugs
<ajmitch> debian should be slowing down development of the base system, so that should at least stay fairly stable for edgy until keybuk & co decide to do things like replace init
* ajmitch can't wait for a python-based init :)
<crimsun> oh man, that's going to be /pain/
<jabra> so all the forums that say it is out already are just bs?
<crimsun> depends what the forums say
<jabra> http://ubuntu-releases.optus.net/.pool/ubuntu-6.06-desktop-i386.iso
<crimsun> you certainly can apt-get all the way up
<crimsun> and the more scrutinizing ones will know which images to check instead of manually spidering mirrors :-)
<ajmitch> jabra: it's probably someone renaming the latest daily image
<ajmitch> since there is no official release done yet, no push to mirrors, etc :)
<jabra> ya probably
* ajmitch confirms subscription to edgy-changes
<whiprush_> howdy ajmitch
<jabra> there shouldn't be a major tons of app upgrades for the release as I have been running dapper for sometime now
<jabra> right ?
<ajmitch> yo whiprush_
<ajmitch> jabra: if you're up to date with dapper now, there should be no changes
<whiprush_> jabra: the last update I got was vmware-player yesterday
* ajmitch should make his first edgy upload sysvinit, before it gets replaced :)
<whiprush_> ajmitch: will edgy open up soon or post-paris?
<ajmitch> hopefully pre-paris
<ajmitch> afaik it depends on infinity & cprov setting it up
<whiprush_> ah
<ajmitch> it's always been open before the dev conf
<ajmitch> I remember doing a number of mono uploads with tseng at UDU
<whiprush_> ah
<ajmitch> & then complaining to lamont that the amd64 buildd was breaking :)
<whiprush_> ajmitch: how's your SoC coming along?
<ajmitch> ah, yeah ;)
<ajmitch> it's getting there, just getting the bits & pieces together that I need
<whiprush_> have you decided on FDS or openldap?
<ajmitch> FDS looks to be an utter pig to build
<ajmitch> requires non-free java
<whiprush_> ah, I was under the impression that it was using gcj.
<ajmitch> build instructions still ask for sun java to be used in places
<whiprush_> ah
<whiprush_> well, that kind of makes your choice easier, heh.
<ajmitch> they may be inaccurate & out of date, of course :)
<ajmitch> http://directory.fedora.redhat.com/wiki/Building
<ajmitch> see the horrible mess
<ajmitch> "NOTE: The java that comes by default on many Linux distros is GNU gcj/classpath. Our code does not currently build/run with this (we're working on it!), so you will need to install the IBM or Sun JDK in order to build the java code. On RHEL, the IBM JDK is in RHEL Extras. For other distros, you will have to go to the IBM or Sun web site, download, and install it."
<whiprush_> I'm just happy that someone is working in this area. :D
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> it'd probably be a SoC project in itself just to package FDS :)
<whiprush_> heh
<ajmitch> well we do have sun's java in multiverse, so it's an option
<dholbach> heya whiprush_
<whiprush_> the admin tools in FDS are certainly impressive.
<whiprush_> hi daniel.
<ajmitch> wonderful
<ajmitch> people have found the .pool dir where isos are put up for staging
<whiprush_> dholbach: 6 stories in the digg queue on the .isos ...
<ajmitch> that's worrying
<dholbach> I wonder what people are waiting for :)
<turboSeX> ajmitch: 6 weeks more for dapper + 6 weeks less for edgy = 12 weeks (roughly 4 months)
<ajmitch> turboSeX: um, no
<whiprush_> well, at least people are excited about the release. :D
<dholbach> turboSeX:  6 + (-6) = ?
<ajmitch> don't count the 6 weeks twice
<crimsun> dholbach: = ponies.
<turboSeX> ajmitch: i was comparing dapper's to edgy's ("three months shorter for eft than it was for drake")
<dholbach> crimsun: YEAH!
<dholbach> and 12 weeks are 3 months, not 4 months
<turboSeX> ajmitch: i am not comparing EDGY'S to STANDARD, but edgy's to dapper's. that's why i count it twice.
<turboSeX> dholbach: first i said 3, not four. it was only now that i said 4, by mistake.
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> well anyways, it's really 6 + (-6) for the moment - it might change with the release schedule to be planned at Paris
<crimsun> yeah, I'm not sure why you double-penalized the six weeks
<ajmitch> nothing about edgy is certain yet
<turboSeX> crimsun: how many extra weeks we had available for dapper than we will have for edgy?
<turboSeX> dholbach: yes, that's true. i am talking pure mathematics here.
<turboSeX> crimsun: the answer to this question will show you why i double-penalize the six weeks.
<turboSeX> crimsun: sorry, the question itself does it already :)
<crimsun> turboSeX: that only holds if you assume that it's not time-based
<crimsun> i.e., presuming that october is still the target, we simply have six fewer weeks.
* crimsun totters off to update his git branch
<turboSeX> crimsun: i don't think i understand your objection, but i would express it this way: as long as the total number of months between the release of breezy and the release of edgy remains constant, whenever we add x weeks to dapper's cycle, we implicitely subtract x weeks from edgy's cycle. as i said, i don't know the *real* schedule, i am talking pure logics.
<ajmitch> turboSeX: there was also discussion of taking 2 weeks off the next 3 releases, instead of 6 weeks off edgy
<ajmitch> still undecided
<turboSeX> crimsun: so breezy's will be cycle+6 and edgy's will be cycle-6
<turboSeX> crimsun: now the difference between the two cycles: cycle+6-(cycle-6)=cycle-cycle+6+6, which is 12.
<turboSeX> crimsun: of course, the REAL dates may change all of this
<crimsun> turboSeX: yes, 12 weeks is the total work, but that doesn't matter to us now that we're facing edgy
<turboSeX> crimsun: agreed, i was simply explaining my calculation
<crimsun> (I understood that much; I assumed you were facing edgy instead of looking at total work)
<turboSeX> (i see)
<ajmitch> as long as feature freeze is nice & late, I'm happy
<ajmitch> since we don't need any long bug-fixing period :)
<turboSeX> ajmitch: why don't we?
<ajmitch> because it's edgy!
<ajmitch> we don't need anything fancy like 'stability' or 'polish'
<turboSeX> right
* dholbach -> walk
* ajmitch looks at the debian release update, notices that the toolchain & kernel will freeze in 2 months
* Sp4rKy is away: go to taf
<crimsun> "leaked beta iso"...
* crimsun falls over laughing
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> where did you see that?
<crimsun> #ubuntu
<ajmitch> it must be leaked, I mean we've always operated so sekr3tly
<crimsun> hehe
<ajmitch> or that this hasn't been propagated from the pools yet, since the staging images we've had have all gone there anyway..
<ajmitch> (or at least those that kamion has pushed there)
* ajmitch should leave #ubuntu for the next few days :)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> bug 47195
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47195 in Ubuntu "Please defer LTS goal to Dapper +1" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47195
<neutrinomass> ajmitch: The great part about that is that it was filed on the 28th ...
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> it's just a metabug :)
<crimsun> man, Dapper LTS is just useless without ponies.
<ajmitch> heh
<highvoltage> crimsun: we have ponies in Edubuntu :P
<ajmitch> ok that's it
<ajmitch> I'm switching to edubuntu now
<crimsun> oh man, Ubuntu's so screwed
<crimsun> Edubuntu++!
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> crimsun: we don't really have ponies, sorry :(
<Fujitsu> Hahah
<highvoltage> crimsun: but we'll have them in either -updates, or in edgy
<highvoltage> (or from art.ubuntu.com)
<crimsun> well dang, that leaves me stranded, because none of the derivatives have ponies :((
<ajmitch> we'll really have to get ponies into edgy
<robitaille> so we need to create  poniubuntu
<ajmitch> do you think it'll work well with shipit?
* imbrandon votes ++ for poniebuntu
* ajmitch files a critical bug about lack of ponies
<crimsun> in the installer, nonetheless!
<imbrandon> omg #ubuntu is crazy, lol, /me is glad #kubuntu is still semi sane
<crimsun> yeah, it has been that way for hours, too
<imbrandon> yea i usaly dont go into #ubuntu but i had to just to watch the nuts
<ajmitch> it's a little crazy
<ajmitch> in a way release day is a letdown for us :)
* imbrandon stays in the #k- channels except #ubuntu-motu
<ajmitch> since it means we stop getting new stuff
<imbrandon> hehe true ajmitch
<imbrandon> ajmitch that just means looking forward top edgy
<imbrandon> to*
<ajmitch> edgy will probably be intensely broken for weeks at a time
<imbrandon> someone needs to setup the ubotu to spit that !+dapper out every 60 seconds ;)
<imbrandon> true ajmitch, vmware to the rescue ;)
<ajmitch> & pbuilder
* ajmitch tends to use a chroot initially, and pbuilder for building stuff
<imbrandon> i need to learn howto set that up
<ajmitch> & then when things have settled down a little, I upgrade my machines
<ajmitch> hey viviersf
<viviersf> morning ajmitch , all well ?
<ajmitch> yeah, fairly well
<viviersf> cool
<_paniq> seveas sucks
<dholbach> paniq: there's no need for that language here
<crimsun> um, please don't take offense, but that /definitely/ doesn't belong in here.
<paniq> >:)
<paniq> yeah yeah i shut up, allright.
<dholbach> we all respect the CoC in here.
<paniq> interesting abbreviation ;)
<dholbach> Code of Conduct
<paniq> i'm aware of what it is thank you :P
<paniq> guess no party for me then, today. just hard work.
<paniq> laters
<naraul> someone please package vidalia for dapper?
<Seveas> naraul, for dapper it won't happen
<Seveas> maybe for edgy
<naraul> oh, ok
<naraul> for edgy then :)
<Fujitsu> Oh sure, it can happen. Come on, there's a few hours to go! That's long enough :P
<amac> its been frozen =)
<naraul> this is the source: http://vidalia-project.net/dist/vidalia-0.0.4.tar.gz
<naraul> amac: edgy??
<amac> dapper
<naraul> amac: ok, for edgy then :)
* ajmitch waits for edgy to open :)
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I'm with you there.
<ajmitch> need to upload new crack!
<TheMuso> ...and for Parris. :)
<ajmitch> yeah, except some of us can't go to paris..
* TheMuso has plenty of that. :()
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: get to work! :-)
<TheMuso> I couldn't normally, but Canonical can really be helpful sometimes. :)
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: yes sir
<TheMuso> heh
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: seriously though, we should take a little bit of time to sit down and get the spec finalised and the infrastructure you need set up.
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: I know, I was going to wait a couple of days before discussing spec needs with you
<Mithrandir> yup
<Mithrandir> I'll be away in the weekend so it's either today or tomorrow or after the weekend (which means Tuesday the earliest; monday being a public holiday here)
<ajmitch> right, and jane wants specs by the 5th
<ajmitch> which is monday
<Mithrandir> yup
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Youch. Thats news to me.
<Mithrandir> so today or tomorrow.  Your choice.
<ajmitch> I'll be free all day tomorrow
* TheMuso has at least another 4 he wants to write up. :)
<ajmitch> TheMuso: the 5th for SoC projects
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: what times are you around/awake?
<TheMuso> phew
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: name a time, this week I haven't had any set pattern :)
<ajmitch> I'm at UTC+12, usually in bed by 3AM here
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: I'm generally around from ~0700 UTC, tomorrow I'll leave at about 1400UTC and then be offline the weekend.
<ajmitch> so about 0900 UTC?
<Mithrandir> sure
<Mithrandir> just ping me then?
<ajmitch> will do
<ajmitch> TheMuso: so what specs are you going to write up for paris?
<TheMuso> ajmitch: All accessibility related.
<ajmitch> great
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Give Ubuntu a few accessibility features that even our commercial rivals like Windows and OS X don't even have.
<ajmitch> such as?
* ajmitch might as well use this time to catch up on debian 
<TheMuso> Spoken feedback while the system boots, so that you know if anything fails.
<TheMuso> And whether and fsck fails etc.
<Mithrandir> TheMuso: scary.
<ajmitch> you'd need to stuff a few extra things in initramfs for that, I assume?
<TheMuso> ajmitch: aybe.
<TheMuso> Mithrandir: Thats the only drawback to it. It is quite invasive.
<TheMuso> But as the way OSs stand now, a blind user only knows that their system is functioning when the desktop loads and their screen reader/braille display starts spitting out data.
<ajmitch> I might as well work on the selinux spec again :)
<ajmitch> being an etch release goal, I think it finally has a chance for ubuntu :)
<crimsun> what, not Ubuntu Pony/Linux? Bah!
<ajmitch> I know, very sad
<ajmitch> we'll have to have the Prancing Pony some other time
<ajmitch> I wonder how the datacentre bandwidth is holding up
<imbrandon> crimsun, Ubuntu GNU/Pony/Linux
<imbrandon> ;)
<naraul> imbrandon: why pony?
<imbrandon> running joke this morning
<ajmitch> because everyone wants a pony!
<Mithrandir> ponies rock
<imbrandon> naraul, dont you want a GNU/My Little Pony (r) ?
<imbrandon> !?!! [05:23]  [473]  #ubuntu+1 You need to be invited to that channel
<imbrandon> wasup with that ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, I think seveas booted everyone out & locked the channel
<ajmitch> since dapper is released
<imbrandon> heheh EDGY !
<imbrandon> Edgy ponies
<imbrandon> Ponies on the Edgy ?!?
<ajmitch> ponies on crack
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> guess i should wipe my dev/build box and get it ready for the edgy repos
<ajmitch> why?
<imbrandon> it'll give me something to do while i'm setting up the icecast server
<ajmitch> what's so wrong with just dist-upgrading?
<ajmitch> my box survived several years of dist-upgrades without being wiped
<imbrandon> nothing i guess ;) my main box has but my build box i wipe it every 6 weeks or so and start anew
<ajmitch> crazy
<imbrandon> i think this box i'm on right now ( my main one ) has survied since horay
<ajmitch> heh
* imbrandon wonders if Ubuntu Release will get /.'d
<ajmitch> probably
<ogra> likely
<ajmitch> and edgy+1 will probably still release before vista is generally available..
<spacey> vista delayed again/
<spacey> ?
<imbrandon> likely ;)
<ajmitch> we'll see
<imbrandon> at very leaste edgy ;)
<imbrandon> if not edgy+1
<naraul> spacey: actually vista was never delayed. it's all fud.
<spacey> naraul: anyway the later it comes the better :p
<spacey> or depends how you look at it
<imbrandon> but spacey Duke Nukem: Forever will run on Windows Vista: Forever  when its released *rolls eyes*
<crimsun> yeah, but by then we'll have ponies. We win.
<imbrandon> hehe
<spacey> i guess they have enough time to polish it
<naraul> spacey: well, since i am against microsoft, i would say the opposite: the sooner disaster comes, the better :)
* imbrandon thinks sabdfl should name Edgy+1 "Pretty Ponies"
<highvoltage> heh. the 'pink' release.
<imbrandon> heh
<highvoltage> hmmm... a pretty pony theme for edubuntu might not be a bad idea
<imbrandon> hahahahha
<spacey> naraul: if early release means a crappy one then it would be better yes :p
* imbrandon calls the "My Little Pony(r)" companie to let them know of edubuntu's copyright infringement ideas ........
<imbrandon> j/k
<imbrandon> highvoltage, would kinda be funny for the kiddo's though
<spacey> terrify them young?
<highvoltage> imbrandon: heh.
<crimsun> uh oh
* imbrandon thinks Ubuntu should hire the Gieko Geko for Edgy commercials
<naraul> what is the server cd?
<naraul> they mention a server cd
<naraul> what is that?
<ajmitch> the server cd that you can download..
<naraul> there's "On the Desktop CD" vs. "On the Server"
<ajmitch> it's in there with the rest of them
<ajmitch> different set of packages, different kernel
<ajmitch> some options like setting up a LAMP server
<naraul> is it the alternate one?
<naraul> "alternate"
<dholbach> no, it's a separate one
<dholbach> but you can install a server from 'alternate' as well
<dholbach> on the server CD you get more server stuff on there as well
<ajmitch> server stuff for edgy should be interesting :)
<naraul> oh, do you mean there's an "ubuntu-server" metapackage just like there's an "ubuntu-desktop" metapackage?
<ajmitch> if anyone would be brave enough to run edgy as a server...
<ajmitch> naraul: no, the server option on the alternate cd installs ubuntu-standard, you then install anything else manually
<ajmitch> there's no meta-package at the moment for various server setups
<ajmitch> just the LAMP install option, afaik
* imbrandon dosent see the server cd
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it's there, below the rest of them on the release page
<imbrandon> ahh i was looking at cdimage.u.c
<ajmitch> they're also on cdimage.u.c, under another directory
<ajmitch> however those builds aren't really as relevant now
* dholbach rejects motuuvf bugs
<dholbach> muuhuhuhahahahaha
<crimsun> well, hopefully not /all/, since some will have to be merged
<crimsun> (cf. wxwidgets2.6)
<crimsun> well, I guess it's no longer an UVFe req :-)
<dholbach> ok, then i'll remove motuuvf as the assignee
<crimsun> right, that would work, too
<ajmitch> dholbach: so do you get a couple of days to rest, or busy preparing -updates? :)
<dholbach> 2.14.x for -updates
<dholbach> 2.15.x + Debian merges for edgy
<dholbach> no rest for me
<naraul> why is ubuntu much more popular than kubuntu, considering that kde is more popular than gnome?
<ajmitch> more popular according to whom?
<dholbach> naraul: I don't think you can say that one is more popular than another
<neutrinomass> dholbach: Any idea on when edgy repos will open ?
<ajmitch> neutrinomass: when they're ready ;)
<ajmitch> edgy won't be a usable distro for at least a few weeks, I suspect
<ajmitch> not until well after paris, due to packages being synced in from sid, and the distro being uninstallable for periods of time
<Toadstool> heya everybody
<neutrinomass> ajmitch: No wonder Ubuntu is a derivative of Debian :P I'll probably set up a vmware environment or install on a seperate partition anyway. 2-3 weeks is a reasonable estimate right ?
<ajmitch> neutrinomass: edgy will be open for upload within a few days, I suspect, but it'll be 'batshit insane'
<neutrinomass> ajmitch: Fair enough. Thanks :)
<crimsun> dput ponies-0.1_source.changes, woo!
<imbrandon> hahahahahah
* ajmitch was one of the few people crazy enough to have upgraded to breezy when he went to UDU
<dholbach> crimsun: so ponies are a native package? :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: of course!
<crimsun> yep
<dholbach> crimsun: I guess, according to you it's more native than others :-p
<crimsun> hehe
<naraul> ajmitch: linus thor
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> ?
<naraul> ajmitch: the question mark was for me?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> wondering what on earth you meant
<naraul> ajmitch: linus torvalds thinks kde is much better than gnome, so now kde is the official desktop environment of most geeks that respect that guy
<ajmitch> not from the geeks that I know, but all we have is anecdotal evidence
<ajmitch> so it's not exactly something you can argue
<imbrandon> naraul, nah i use kde but i could care less what linus uses ;)
<naraul> why doesn't ubuntu have a java packages repo?
<naraul> there are some nice open source java apps
<naraul> azureus is one of them
<imbrandon> az is in the repos
<naraul> i use it every week
<naraul> breezy?
<imbrandon> root@voyager:~# apt-cache search azureus
<imbrandon> azureus - BitTorrent client
<imbrandon> root@voyager:~#
<naraul> imbrandon: breezy?
<imbrandon> nope , but dapper is the stable dog now ;)
<imbrandon> sun-java5-jre is also in the repos for dapper, i think that had alot to do with it
<naraul> imbrandon: what about jedit?
<naraul> and which repo is this?
<imbrandon> dont see jedit , the dapper multivers repos
<imbrandon> naraul, packages.ubuntu.com you can search dapper repos
<imbrandon> * or breezy / horay *
<naraul> right thanks
<Hobbsee> hi all
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
* Hobbsee pokes around to see if everyone's passed out, as release has occured, so they can sleep
<crimsun> nope, fighting maintainer scripts atm
<Hobbsee> ah what fun :)
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon
<Whoopie>  Hi, I have a question regarding package patches: what are these relibtoolize patches for?
<tennessy> is it preferable for me to try the 64 bits version?
<tennessy> or will i have issues?
<tennessy> is it less supported?
<tennessy> please help me decide
<tennessy> Seveas: http://www.ubuntulinux.nl/source-o-matic appears to be down ("Fatal error: Call to undefined function: xml_parser_create() in /var/www/www.kaarsemaker.net/public_html/lib/class.xmlparser.php on line 50"). are you behind this?
<Seveas> I know
<Seveas> stupid admin updated php
<tennessy> Seveas: any idea how long this will take?
<Seveas> not too long
<Seveas> but in a few hours that server will be down for the better part of 34h
<Seveas> 24h*
<tennessy> thank you
<buxy> siretart: I'm hearing that you're going through NM superfast, that's cool!
<siretart> buxy: :) - yes, I just send in my answers for T&S 1 :)
<ogra> siretart, happy release day
<ogra> Seveas, where is the @release-party plugin for ubuntu ?
<ogra> *Ubugtu
<Ubugtu> PARTAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!
<ogra> haha
<siretart> ogra: congrats to the release! :)
<siretart> party on, guys!
<ogra> thanks :)
<zul> party on wayne
<siretart> party on, garth!
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee cannot party :( - no one else around here who uses linux
<zul> and im stuck at work
<Hobbsee> how dull!
<adolson> I think the website needs to have a thing in the FAQ about Intel 64-bit CPUs, because it is confusing people even at my work, they are using i386 images now.. :\
<adolson> despite it saying it on the download page.. it would be good to have there too, I think.
<Mithrandir> well, they work fine on 64 bit intel cpus and apart from the bigger memory area, there's little incentive to use 64 bit mode on intel cpus.
<adolson> oh? so I shouldn't download it and reinstall then? there's a SUSE user in the office who says there's a big performance difference using 64-bit
<Mithrandir> I'd doubt so with intel cpus.
<Mithrandir> and the performance difference isn't big, it's 10-20% on "most" applications, iirc.
<adolson> good to know
<Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir
<adolson> I won't waste my time reinstalling then :)
<Mithrandir> hiya Hobbsee
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: feeling dapper today? :-)
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> define feeling dapper :P
* Hobbsee hasnt even been here for most of the day :P
<tennessy> is it preferable for me to try the 64 bits version?
<tennessy> or will i have issues?
<tennessy> is it less supported?
<tennessy> please help me decide
<Mithrandir> adolson: the reason why you don't see a performance difference on intel cpus is they have implemented the extra instructions and such in microcode rather than "real hardware", so they're in a sense emulated.
<adolson> ah
<Mithrandir> tennessy: it's just as supported as the 32 bit version.
<tennessy> Mithrandir: really?
<tennessy> Mithrandir: what about drivers?
<tennessy> Mithrandir: what about nvidia, for instance?
<siretart> Mithrandir: so Athlon64 cpus do profit a lot from ubuntu/amd64 over ubuntu/i386? did someone did some benchmarks to compare this?
<Mithrandir> tennessy: I'm running a dualhead amd64 setup with nvidia drivers.
<Mithrandir> adolson: for some media ops and such, AMD cpus in 64 bit mode are twice as fast, but that's just for a small set of apps.
<Mithrandir> siretart: yeah, somebody did the benchmarks and the conclusion was something along the lines of "varies a lot by app"
<Mithrandir> but in general is a tad faster.
<siretart> ah. I see
<adolson> good to know. thanks Mithrandir
<tennessy> Mithrandir: what about vmware?
<Mithrandir> you can't use 64 bit vmware without running a 64 bit install.
<highvoltage> that's a pity. would've been nice if they could emulate 64bit under 32bit... and even ppc
<Mithrandir> it's virtualisation, not emulation
<tennessy> Mithrandir: so i can't install a 32 winxp under a 64bit vmware?
* Yagisan mumbles that it doesn't like all amd64 systems
<Mithrandir> tennessy: I didn't say that.
<Mithrandir> tennessy: since that works just fine.
<tennessy> Mithrandir: then i didn't understand what you said
<Mithrandir> tennessy: you can't install a 64 bit winxp under a 32 bit vmware.
<tennessy> Mithrandir: i want to run a 64 bit install and to install a 64 bit vmware and i was asking how much faster that would be
<Hobbsee> hi Kyral
<tennessy> i mean, how much faster will the logical machine be?
<Mithrandir> depends on what you're running in it.  Probably measureable, but not "feel"able.
<tennessy> thanks
<Kyral> morning
<Gloubiboulga> somebody knows why webmin has been removed in dapper ?
<Gloubiboulga> s/ in/ from/
<Yagisan> Gloubiboulga: IIRC I think it was effectively orphaned in Debian then removed
<Yagisan> Gloubiboulga: http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=webmin&searchon=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all
<Gloubiboulga> thanks Yagisan
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> I'll re-iterate what I said in -devel.. :-)
<bddebian> CONGRATS EVERYONE AND THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HARD WORK!!!
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<Gloubiboulga> hello bddebian :)
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<tseng> yay dapper
<bddebian> Oh hush up you business travelling traitor ;-P
<tseng> traitor?
<tseng> wtf
<bddebian> No tseng, no party :-)
<Yagisan> dappers out now ?
<highvoltage> yep
<tseng> er, yes
* Yagisan was wondering why there were no updates for a few days
<bddebian> heh
<tseng> bddebian: at least i got a nice hotel room
<tseng> desk, sofa, big bed
<bddebian> Nice
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Anyone feel like helping me debug something?
<bddebian> Not on FreeBSD ;-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Its not on FreeBSD
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I just happen to be connected to IRC from the FreeBSD machine I'm playing with
<Kyral_FreeBSD> And its for work, so the faster I get this working the faster I can get hacking on the Hurd :P
<bddebian> w00t
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Hehe I know how to get bbdebian's attention
<Kyral_FreeBSD> You should have seen my comment on all the over the top Dapper stuff going on last night
<bddebian> ??
<Kyral_FreeBSD> "Jeez, they are acting like the HURD went stable or something
<tseng> har har
<tseng> hurd.
* tseng hides
<Yagisan> Kyral_FreeBSD: Hurd ? that have opengl ?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Yagisan: It was a joke
<Kyral_FreeBSD> the HURD prolly won't be stable for like 3 more years
<tseng> hasnt hurd been around for 10 years already
<jamessan> didn't they say that 3 years ago?
<bddebian> Try 3 more centuries ;-P
* jamessan ducks
<Yagisan> Kyral_FreeBSD: I know it's not finished, but for a laugh I want to see if some software a) builds, and b) runs on it
<Kyral_FreeBSD> The point WAS that they were going over the top :P
<bddebian> A lot of software builds and runs on it
<Yagisan> bddebian: software I have in mind has portablity bugs I'm hunting down
<Kyral_FreeBSD> and I promised bddebian  I would help make an Ubunturd :P
<Yagisan> bddebian: another system to break it on is helpful to me
<Kyral_FreeBSD> bddebian: we should really change that name...
<bddebian> Yagisan: I have 3 public Hurd boxes if you want access
<bddebian> Kyral_FreeBSD: I know :-(
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Hubuntu?
<tseng> haha
<tseng> Development on the Hurd began in 1990, after an abandoned kernel attempt called Trix.
<Yagisan> bddebian: actually, yeah. Debian based ?
<ogra> and HURD comes next year, no ?
<bddebian> Yagisan: Yes, all Debian
<bddebian> ogra: :-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Wasn't Gentoo working on a HURD thing?
<Yagisan> bddebian: nice, I can apt-get the build-deps in a pbuilder
<bddebian> Yes but development stopped a while ago.  Someone tried to pick it up again recently though
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I hate debugging
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I think I need another pair of eyes on this one
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Anyone mind taking a look?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> There must be something really stupid I am doing
<bddebian> Kyral_FreeBSD: What is it?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> This daemon I am writing to check servers
<Kyral_FreeBSD> pings every so often and emails the admin if its down
<Kyral_FreeBSD> but its not working quite right
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I think I have a case of "being too close to the code" if you get my drift
<Kyral_FreeBSD> the tarball is at bocesproject.snell.clarkson.edu/~petermcv/shcd-1.3.tgz
<Kyral_FreeBSD> you'll need MuttNG for it
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Feel free to try it out..I need more testers anyway :D
<medelin_> I upload do REVU at first time
<medelin_> and dont have login to revu webpage
<medelin_> i try recover and get a encrypted message with my password
<medelin_> so this message is cryted with public key different of mine key
<medelin_> and I cant decrypt her
* Kyral_FreeBSD sighs
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Is it possible for a network to be flaky for a nano second...
<Yagisan> Kyral_FreeBSD: of course.
<Kyral_FreeBSD> then why the heck does it seem to happen in the ONE second I ping this damn machine
<Yagisan> Kyral_FreeBSD: you may need stephen hawking to explain that
<Tonio_> hi
<Se7h> alo
<phanatic> hi people
<LaserJock> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> anybody know when Edgy will open?
<Gloubiboulga> hey phanatic, LaserJock
<zul> LaserJock: soon...probably <TM>
<LaserJock> or if it has even been discussed/decided
<LaserJock> did dapper open after UBZ?
<phanatic> heya Gloubiboulga
<LaserJock> I can't remember
<phanatic> one week i think
<ogra> shortly before iirc
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> hmm, I've already got a lot of work to do ;-)
<ogra> we first need new seeds, then the archive software must be taught to know about egdy ...
<ogra> that will take some time ... i guess not before end of next week
* Sp4rKy is back (gone 11:25:42)
<bddebian> Heya phanatic, LaserJock
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Gotta love Perl
<Kyral_FreeBSD> they have a complete reference guide and tutorial all in manpages
<phanatic> heya bddebian
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: bddebian : Hi once again.. Lets celerate.. My vacation and Dapper Drake both have rolled out on the same day
<bddebian> w00t again :-)
* Kyral_FreeBSD yawns
<Kyral_FreeBSD> When I get my XenServer back up fully I will celebrate
* tuxmaniac dances with champagne on his head
<zul> tuxmaniac: then you can get ready for edgy ;)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Actually...shit...I need to recompile my domU kernel
<LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out how to get things in dapper-updates
<tuxmaniac> Kyral_FreeBSD: for once.. celebrate.. Life is just not Ubuntu.. Its about champagne too
<LaserJock> not time for partying here ;-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> tuxmaniac: Who said anything about Ubutnu
<Kyral_FreeBSD> The thing runs on Debian Stable :P
<tuxmaniac> whatever.. sorry guys
<tuxmaniac> seems like a wrong channel to feel happy about ubuntu
<lucas> hello all
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: no no
<LaserJock> I'm happy
<Kyral_FreeBSD> because we are all very anbnoyed with people acting like the HURD went stable last night :P
<bddebian> What are you talking about?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> You should have seen #ubuntuforums last night
<Kyral_FreeBSD> seriously they were acting like the HURD went stable or something...
<bddebian> Who was?
<bddebian> And why?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Because Dapper was coming out
<Kyral_FreeBSD> they were LITERALLY counting down per minute
<Kyral_FreeBSD> hmm now there is an idea...
<bddebian> WTF would Dapper have to do with Hurd?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> get a Core Duo and use the built in virtualization to put HURD on Xen
<Kyral_FreeBSD> bddebian: I meant thats how they were acting
<Kyral_FreeBSD> ie, party mode major
<bddebian> Ahhh
* bddebian is a little slow on the uptake :)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> You think I could use the virtualization in the new Intel cores to put HURD on Xen?
<bddebian> You could certainly try :-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Seeing as I'm looking to pick up one of the new cores this summer :D
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Jeez, this one is gonna take a while
<Kyral_FreeBSD> mkfs.ext3 -cc -m 1 -O dir_index -v
* highvoltage heard something about HURD
<Kyral_FreeBSD> you did
<highvoltage> i wish it could go stable though :(
<Kyral_FreeBSD> when I jump to a Core Duo I'm gonna try to use its virtualization to put HURD on Xen
<highvoltage> i love the gnu project
<Kyral_FreeBSD> hehe I do to
<Kyral_FreeBSD> which is why I am a member of the FSF
<bddebian> highvoltage: So help us fix it :-)
<highvoltage> bddebian: where do you work on it?
<highvoltage> are you involved with ubuntu-libre aka gnubuntu?
<highvoltage> Kyral_FreeBSD: i'm also a member of FSF, member #3066
<bddebian> highvoltage: I didn't know there was a gnubuntu
<bddebian> I was considering an Ubuntu GNU/Hurd distro for a while
<highvoltage> bddebian: there are some other poeple in ubuntu who's been working on something too
<highvoltage> they normally hang out in #ubuntu-libre, but there's not many ppl there atm
<highvoltage> it was going to be called gnubuntu, but RMS said he doesn't like the word, so they changed the name.
<Kyral_FreeBSD> bddebian: I said once I get my work underway and to the point where I can take a break then I will work on Ubuntu/HURD :P
<highvoltage> ubuntu gnu/hurd would rock
<bddebian> Ubunturd
<bddebian> F* RMS
<highvoltage> can I post some links?
<bddebian> OK with me
<Kyral_FreeBSD> hmm
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I may not need to rewrite this in Python to internalize everything
<highvoltage> http://osdir.com/Article7951.phtml
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Perl seems to have what I need
<highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu-libre
<dholbach> Ok fellas - I call it a day - happy partying
<bddebian> Later dholbach!  Good work! :-)
<highvoltage> goodnight dholbach
<highvoltage> i would give you a hug, but i'm not a huggy person
* bddebian gives dholbach a HUGE hug ;-)
<highvoltage> dholbach: but i will buy you chocolate or a beer in Paris :)
<tuxmaniac> dholbach: dont utter the word party on -motu
* dholbach hugs bdhurdbuntu back
<dholbach> highvoltage: I'll buy you one too!
* dholbach hugs highvoltage
* highvoltage didn't see that coming :)
<dholbach> :-)
<bddebian> hehe
* LaserJock give dholbach a hug
* dholbach hugs LaserJock back
<dholbach> ok see you!
* tuxmaniac feels lonely
* dholbach hugs tuxmaniac
<dholbach> bye :)
<tuxmaniac> :-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> hmm
<Kyral_FreeBSD> directly interfacing with SMTP via perl...
* \sh celebrated the release already
<\sh> yesterday evening and night with a lot of special "Maibock" beer
<lucasvo> I have problem with a tetex package, I can't download it (http://pastebin.com/751756)
<lucasvo> what's wrong with it?
<lucasvo> oh, it's in the main repos. who should I ask?
<\sh> #u-devel
<lucasvo> ok
<lucasvo> thanks
<ajmitch> morning
<\sh> ok..going to celebrate ubuntu release the second time ;)
<\sh> laters
<ajmitch> heh
<bddebian> Enjoy \sh_away
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi bddebian
<ajmitch> ready to put us all to shame on edgy now, are you?
<bddebian> If that were true, don't you think some of the "real developers" would notice? ;-P
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Hehe, if I get enough time, Edgy will have the HURD :P
<ajmitch> I'm sure
<ajmitch> bddebian: you are a real developer...
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Actually getting running on the Xen CoreDuo would help in that regard
<bddebian> Oh BS, I fix .desktop files :-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I wouldn't have to dual boot
<ajmitch> Kyral_FreeBSD: and have you got a distro with the Hurd up & running yet?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> just xm console hurdvm :P
<Kyral_FreeBSD> ajmitch: Nope, I have to finish work first :P
<ajmitch> heh
<Kyral_FreeBSD> work == pay
<Kyral_FreeBSD> pay == new CPU :P
<ajmitch> so you plan to do a port of ubuntu to a completely different kernel, which you're not even using yet?
<ajmitch> funny
<Kyral_FreeBSD> well
<kagou> hi
<Kyral_FreeBSD> seeing as Debian already has a lot done
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I'll just start out by installing a debian base system and slowly recompiling from Ubuntu repos
<bddebian> ajmitch: ;-)
<ajmitch> running into problems all the way :)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> ain't that the point?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I'm gonna learn a shitload fixing them :D
<bddebian> Are you ready to fight the zealotry too? :-)
<ajmitch> so how are you going to port the Hurd to xen?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> ajmitch: Core Duo has that nice built in virtualization
<ajmitch> so?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> you don't need to patch the kernel
<ajmitch> so you'll run one old-style hypervisor (mach) on top of another..
<Kyral_FreeBSD> it should be as easy as installing it normally (with hold comments)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Oh it won't be primary
<Kyral_FreeBSD> it will be some guest domain
<Kyral_FreeBSD> and believe me I will have the power for it :D
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Heh it will be the ultimate distro tryout machine lol
<Kyral_FreeBSD> just create another XenGuest
<LaserJock> hmm, I just had my first big IRC argument
<LaserJock> I hate arguments
<ajmitch> congraulations
<Kyral_FreeBSD> ook you this long?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Jeez I seem to get into flamewars everyday
<ajmitch> you have a skill for it
<Kyral_FreeBSD> pfft
<LaserJock> yes, I don't like conflict and am generally very calm and patient
<LaserJock> but I just had it when I've worked so hard this release and somebody said that Universe wasn't offical or supported in any way
<LaserJock> I understand the differences between Main and Universe, but to say that my work is nothing, that being a MOTU is nothing :/
<ajmitch> ah, that one
<Kyral_FreeBSD> At least you don't get the "You used Ubuntu, so you are a n00b" one
<ajmitch> yes, it does tend to disparage all the hard work that's been put in
<Kyral_FreeBSD> nevermind that I have been using Linux for 4 years and maintain a couple packages
<Gloubiboulga> Kyral_FreeBSD, I see this one every day
<Kyral_FreeBSD> *twitch*
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Lesse, I started on Slack, survived a year on Gentoo, and then got tired and wanted a break so I used Ubuntu for a while
<LaserJock> and then a Debian guy pops in and says that Universe is not supported like Debian is
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Oh sometimes the Debian guys piss me off
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Like one day this poor guy came in asking a question about Ubutnu and they jumped his ass
<LaserJock> anyway, I need to calm down to my usual affable self :-)
<LaserJock> arggh, but they said there was no guarantee of security fixes and updates
<Kyral_FreeBSD> chill
<LaserJock> I guess I shouldn't be working on the packages I was going to send to dapper-updates
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> maybe we need a MOTU strike and see how they like it ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why did that annoy you? they were quite right, universe security has been a best-effort job by some great people who've taken that job on
<LaserJock> yes, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen
<ajmitch> saying there's no guarantee is not the same as saying that noone bothers to work on universe
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> that was my point
<LaserJock> but it didn't really stick I guess
<ajmitch> canonical is bound to provide security updates for main, we're not under the same obligation for universe
<ajmitch> people shouldn't necessarily trust universe to run their critical services
<LaserJock> right, but they said it had nothing to do with canoncial
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Universe is like the AUR Unsupported
<LaserJock> but I consider it to be a lot to do with Canonical
<Kyral_FreeBSD> or rather the AUR itself
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it is
<LaserJock> anyway, I understand what they are saying and for sure Main is not the same as Universe
<LaserJock> but to say that it is unoffical just doesn't make sense to me
<ajmitch> I can understand what you mean though
<LaserJock> anyway, it was just the wrong day
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> you've done a lot of great work for dapper
<Kyral_FreeBSD> yup yup
<LaserJock> I've been working on the "unoffical" and "unsupported" Universe somewhere around 40 hrs a week for months now
<ajmitch> it shows, canonical now flying you round the world & all
<ajmitch> that's about 39 hours a week more than me
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Good Job LJ
<LaserJock> hehe, that's just because ogra and JaneW are  nice
<Kyral_FreeBSD> hehe, honestly I thought I would get all this crap before you
<Kyral_FreeBSD> then school hit and... :P
<LaserJock> I'm still a packaging newb
* ajmitch will have to spend about 40-50 hours a week from now on :)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I've stopped packaging for all intents and purposes
<LaserJock> I need to cut back to like 10
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Right now I am perfecting my system admin abilities
<ajmitch> I've got SoC & other work to do for edgy
<LaserJock> I've seriously delayed my PhD by a couple months at least for Dapper
<ajmitch> so it'll be a bit of main stuff
<LaserJock> arggh, I'm turning into a deve elitest ;(
<LaserJock> s/deve/dev/
<Kyral_FreeBSD> hehe
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I left so I wouldn't become that
<LaserJock> I'm really not elitest, but I do see things from a different perspective
<ajmitch> LaserJock: take a week or two off, relax
<LaserJock> I think we should have a "take a user to work" day
<LaserJock> where a random user has to spend a day working with us
<highvoltage> hehe. that sounds funny
<LaserJock> I want people to spend a typical day with elmo, or mdz
* highvoltage volunteers for that
<ajmitch> scary
* highvoltage finds elmo more scary than mdz
<ajmitch> can you imagine what they'd be like after a day with elmo?
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> "be afraid, be very afraid" :-)
* Kyral_FreeBSD will be back in some form, when he finds his definition of perfection
<LaserJock> Kyral_FreeBSD: it will be Ubuntu, you know it will ;-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Though more likely than not I will be "competing" with you guys :P
<ajmitch> probably
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Nah, it won't be Ubuntu
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I already know that
<LaserJock> Kyral_FreeBSD: no competition, we will blow you outta the water ;-)
<LaserJock> hehe
<Kyral_FreeBSD> what have I said before
<Kyral_FreeBSD> The great thing about this Open Source world, is that we all have the right to choose
<Kyral_FreeBSD> there is no one true perfect
<Kyral_FreeBSD> just everyone's perception of it, and we have the right to use whatever we wish, without anyone stopping us
<LaserJock> only our own ignorance and stupidity :-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Every Distro has its benefits
<Kyral_FreeBSD> every Distro is someone's idea of "perfect"
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Jeez I sound like Obi-Wan Kenobi or something
<Bazzi> Like Obi Wan, you sound.
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I will most likely revisit Slackware and Gentoo soon
<Bazzi> While your points are definately true, too much choice hurts.
<LaserJock> I do think it is a bit different, but I understand what your saying
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Now that I have played with BSD, I can understand what DRobbins was trying to do with Portage
<LaserJock> hence the port in portage ;-)
<Bazzi> ports/portage is a nice concept :)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> perhaps learn Perl and Python
<Bazzi> a more user-friendly gentoo (gentoo users will stab me for that) would exceed any available linux experience yet IMO.
<Kyral_FreeBSD> my ultimate goal...is to create my own distro
<Kyral_FreeBSD> just for me
<LaserJock> Bazzi: I found Ubuntu by looking for a binary version of Gentoo
<LaserJock> Kyral_FreeBSD: for me that would be an abysmal failure
<Bazzi> Heh, the irony :)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> LaserJock: Hehe, I will most likely fail the first few times
<LaserJock> Kyral_FreeBSD: I'd rather have people who know what they are doing do the OS for me
<LaserJock> :-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> but like I have said
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I learn best by doing
<Kyral_FreeBSD> hence my drive for LFS
<LaserJock> yeah, makes sense
<Bazzi> hence my drive for creating my own local repository and debs
<Bazzi> so same here :)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I got too complacent with Ubuntu
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I lost my edge
<Kyral_FreeBSD> ArchLinux woke me up again
<LaserJock> complacent? I must not have been cracking the whip enough :-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I meant in terms of understanding the system
<LaserJock> oh, I gave that up a long time ago, but then I'm a chemist so I can get away with it most of the time :p
<LaserJock> Chris, I really do hope you continue to hang out here every once in a while, even if you aren't actively working on Ubuntu
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I will
<highvoltage> Kyral_FreeBSD: i hope so too
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Heck I once I get SHCD working I'll need to package it :D
<highvoltage> Kyral_FreeBSD: mostly because of your HURD interests :)
<highvoltage> we need more GNU supporters in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> what's GNU? j/k
<Bazzi> heh, an Ubuntu/HURD version would be sweet
<azeem> it's Hurd
<azeem> not HURD
<ajmitch> hi azeem
<Bazzi> w/e
<azeem> Andrew!
<bddebian> Uh oh, you have awoken azeem :-)
<LaserJock> I don't really understand what the big deal is with Hurd, TBH. What is supposed to be the advantage?
<ajmitch> azeem: how's it going?
<azeem> fine, am going to the UK for a weekend trip
<azeem> ajmitch: are you a KDE user
<azeem> ?
<ajmitch> no, I use GNOME
<highvoltage> LaserJock: well, there's technical differences, and then there's social differences
<Bazzi> LaserJock: well as far as I heard it's a more clean approach to a kernel and more lightweight
<highvoltage> LaserJock: it might be best to just read the propoganda on the hurd website :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: lol
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Its something new!
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Thats what!
<azeem> ajmitch: ok
<LaserJock> azeem: how about you?
<azeem> GNOME
<azeem> if that was the question
<azeem> well, ion right now, actually
<highvoltage> it will also provide some competition to the linux kernel guys.
<bddebian> Kyral_FreeBSD: New?  It's older than Linux ;-P
<highvoltage> put some pressure on them to clean linux up a bit
<highvoltage> it would really be nice if they did a bugfix version of linux.
<azeem> I switched to ion for debconf, because I didn't want to get evil stares for displaying an Ubuntu desktop :)
<LaserJock> azeem: yeah, that was the question. I float between gnome, kde and openbox. mostly gnome though
<ajmitch> highvoltage: it hasn't really put much pressure on so far :)
<LaserJock> azeem: lol
<highvoltage> ion3++
<ajmitch> azeem: I'm sure quite a few people would have been running ubuntu anyway :)
<highvoltage> ajmitch: well, in it's current state, it's far from competition level :)
<azeem> ajmitch: I was asking because abauer was wondering about the opensync-enabled kitchensync stuff
<ajmitch> ah right
<ajmitch> I've got kde on the laptop as well
<chillywilly> congrats on the release guys
<chillywilly> :)
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<LaserJock> hmm, I need to figure out how to use screen as my window manager
<bddebian> hehe
<LaserJock> I can do one window at a time, but I haven't gotten farther then that :-)
<azeem> it's hard to choose between ion and screen
* ajmitch hasn't tried ion
<ajmitch> how useful is it?
<ajmitch> hi siretart_
<hub> hi
<ajmitch> hi hub
<hub> why do Debian developer complain about dpatch?
<hub> and what is recommended to use instead?
<azeem> hub: quilt, maybe
<ajmitch> they complain when you add dpatch to a package which isn't using it
<azeem> but dpatch should be fine
<hub> like of handling a HUGE patch was easy
* hub think about the 171MB gzipped OOo patch
<ajmitch> hub: asking why debian developers complain about something is futile
* azeem tries hard not to think about it
<hub> azeem: I tend to use cdbs abd simple-patch-sys
<azeem> that's fine IMHO
<hub> ajmitch: at least that gave me the answer
<azeem> however, if you modify existing packages, it might make merging harder later on
<hub> that it is "turning into dpatch" that they don't like
<hub> azeem: yeah I get that.
<ajmitch> yes, see joeyh's complaint from last year
<hub> ajmitch: I was reading that: http://www.kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/a_bad_taste_in_the_mouth_detailed_ubuntu_patch_review.html
<hub> ajmitch: probably the one you are talking about
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> http://www.kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/dpatch_dbs_etc_etc_etc_etc_considered_harmful.html
<ajmitch> also
<azeem> well, patch systems are a pretty touchy subject to some people
<LaserJock> hehe, maybe I should ask debian-devel for contributions to the patch system section of the packaging guide ;p
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we'll thank you for inciting a flamewar later
* azeem hopes this will all be gone for good with the arrival of wig&pen/dpkg-sourcev2
<Kyral_FreeBSD> If I contribute anything in the near future, it will be Xen Kernel packages for Ubuntu
<ajmitch> good luck, it would not be trivial to integrate with all the other patches
<bddebian> LaserJock, ajmitch: :-)
<LaserJock> azeem: sounds cryptic
<LaserJock> azeem: what will it do?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Oh who said it would integrate the other patches
<ajmitch> then it wouldn't be accepted
<Kyral_FreeBSD> psh
<ajmitch> and it'd be no better than the already existing xen kernel packages others have supplied
<Kyral_FreeBSD> frankly I'd like to see the Beyond patchset
<ajmitch> then talk to the kernel team
<azeem> LaserJock: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/07/msg00480.html talks about it a bit
<azeem> www.dpkg.org seems to be down
<LaserJock> azeem: hmm, cool
* chillywilly does the happy dance as he upgrades to Dapper
<jamessan> yeah, dpkg.org seems to have been down for a while now :(
<jamessan> had to use the google cache the other day to read up on moving conffiles
<ajmitch> blame keybuk :)
<hub> when will the edgy repository be open>
<bddebian> chillywilly: :-)
<bddebian> haha
<bddebian> Where's keybuk when you need him? :-)
<hub> and the debian sync?
<LaserJock> hub: it'll be a while, they will need to change LP, etc.
<ajmitch> hub: when it's ready
<LaserJock> you can tell ajmitch is a DD ;-)
<ajmitch> haha
<bddebian> hehe
<ajmitch> so now all the bugs you fixed in dapper.. push the fixes to debian :)
<LaserJock> "the loathsome dpatch" ?
<bddebian> Bah, F Debian.. ;-P
* bddebian hides
<LaserJock> bddebian: today just isn't my day
<bddebian> LaserJock: Why man?
<ajmitch> bddebian: so you want to package all the new upstream versions & new packages yourself then?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Suure, why not? ;-P
<ajmitch> fine
<LaserJock> bddebian: I'm pissed off and tired :-)
<ajmitch> I'll see you in a few years
<bddebian> LaserJock: Why pissed off?
<bddebian> Of course better than being pissed on, I always say.. ;-P
<jpatrick> bddebian: haha
<LaserJock> bddebian: long story, started in -docs went to -offtopic and then I was just calming down when I see that dpatch is crap and Ubuntu is of no use to Debian ;-)
<azeem> I think joeyh is about the only Debian guy who doesn't like or at least tolerate dpatch
<azeem> cdbs is a much different matter, though
<LaserJock> to me it seems like Debian guys always talk about "This is the way we do it in Debian" when in fact they really haven't a clue what each other do or think, but then I'm a little grouchy today
<ajmitch> azeem: simply because cdbs is a black box far too often
<jamessan> there is a fair share of people that don't like dpatch, I'd say.
<Spec> LaserJock: that brings to mind .desktop files, some DDs fix 'em, others don't
<jamessan> ajmitch: agreed. I've actually been considering moving some of my pacakges away from using it
<LaserJock> Spec: exactly
<LaserJock> jamessan: what do they use?
<bddebian> Spec: I've noticed some bug reports where they don't even want them
<jamessan> LaserJock: quilt is gaining popularity, I think.  I really like it.  there's also the good ol' fashion 'handle patches yourself' method
<LaserJock> yeah, unfortunately I think with .desktops it is much better to get the authors to include it than to ask debian
<Spec> well, the guy I talked to was helpful, so not all DDs are evil ;)
<jpatrick> LaserJock: I use simple-patchsys
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Sometimes I like how simple PKGBUILDs are
<ajmitch> Spec: they're not?
<LaserJock> Spec: no, not at all
<Spec> nope, not all.
* jamessan glares at ajmitch   ;)
<Spec> in fact, there could be some of 'em lurking around us *scared*
<ajmitch> Spec: never!
<LaserJock> you just have to find the good DDs amongst all the cruft ;-)
<LaserJock> does simple-patchsys only work with cdbs?
<ajmitch> yes, it was an example written for cdbs
<ajmitch> to show how a patch system could be used with it
<ajmitch> people then decided to use it for real packages
<LaserJock> well, I think it is valuble to use *something* rather then having everything in the .diff.gz
<ajmitch> bzr! :)
<LaserJock> but beyond that I'm not really sure what would recommend one system over another
<LaserJock> I tend to stay away from cdbs because of the black magic
<LaserJock> but that is probably just because I haven't dug into it
<jamessan> LaserJock: well, you can still do that yourself. no need for a patch system.
<LaserJock> jamessan: right
* ajmitch is almost tempted to try out XGl on his system now that dapper is out
<jamessan> that's how the Vim package was done before we switched to quilt :)
<LaserJock> I'd really love to get some knowledgable MOTUs and DDs to help with the Packaging Guide for edgy *hint*
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sure, I'll see if I can find some :)
<LaserJock> doh
<ajmitch> :)
<LaserJock> I really want to be thorough with the patch systems this time
<ajmitch> don't worry, I'll try & help out
<LaserJock> I'm sort of waiting to see what Ian does with the Ubuntu Developer's Reference though, to see how much I can do
<ajmitch> it scares me how there have been several thousand forum posts since the dapper release
<ajmitch> have you discussed it with him?
<ajmitch> maybe you could help write it?
<bddebian> LaserJock: I'd love to help but I'm not knowledgeable :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: sure you are, this is for newbs even fresher than me :-)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I talked to him a bit when I first started the Packaging Guide but he was so busy with Firefox, et. al. that I dont' think it got very far
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I'm going to try to offer to help again
<ajmitch> he's probably still recovering from the firefox nightmare
<LaserJock> I think the combination of the Developer's Reference and Packaging Guide could end up being the most complete coverage of Debian pacakging available
<ajmitch> it's amazing that it's so popular, really
<ajmitch> right, and the 2 docs can cover different area
<ajmitch> sigh, it's light outside
<LaserJock> right, and I GPL'd the Packaging Guide so we can share info easily to make them complimentary
<ajmitch> probably not worth trying to get back to sleep
<ajmitch> using FC5, I realise how much I should appreciate ubuntu
<Spec> What's the best way to rebuild vim with perl enabled?
<Spec> (and make a package)
<ogra> Spec, you mean like the vim-perl package ?
<Spec> bah, always making things easy
<LaserJock> lol
<bddebian> heh
<zul> cd /exit
<zul> oops./.
<Kyral_FreeBSD> hehe I dig this "unless" thing in Perl
<bddebian> Later folks, Congrats again!
<crimsun> thanks, deity!
<bddebian> :'-(
<crimsun> wow, go irssi.
<crimsun> /ignore -channels #ubuntu * JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS
<LaserJock> hehe
<Marce> i have this without channels :>
<crimsun> in all the years I've spent on irc, this is the closest I've come to feeling overwhelmed
<LaserJock> wow
<LaserJock> I wonder how the bots are doing
<crimsun> a bit lagged
<LaserJock> oh my, isn't there an overflow room or something
<crimsun> we'd fill that, too, probably
<crimsun> this is like ramping up for grad school all over again
<LaserJock> wow
<LaserJock> it's like having 50 tvs on in your house full blast at the same time with different stations
* Sp4rKy is away: dodo et taf
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-02
<Spec> LaserJock: -some- of us have houses with more than 50 rooms, so it's no problem.
<LaserJock> whatever :p
<Spec> i don't :p
<deptrai> hello, I'm making a .deb package, but I don't know how to add a new line to /etc/profile
<LaserJock> new line in /etc/profile?
<deptrai> export GTK_IM_MODULE="xim" <== I just want to add this
<deptrai> to change environnement variable
<crimsun> no, don't do that.
<deptrai> crimsun: what should I do ?
<deptrai> because the package need to change environment
<deptrai> variable
<deptrai> to run correctly
<crimsun> deptrai: add a note in README.Debian telling the users to make that change in their own startup files.
<crimsun> /etc/{environment,profile} are sacred
<deptrai> crimsun: is there anyway to display a message when user install my package ?
<deptrai> just for notify them
<crimsun> deptrai: yes
<deptrai> crimsun: how ?
<crimsun> deptrai: there are a few ways, debconf being one
<deptrai> :-/
<deptrai> crimsun: thanks for the keyword, I'll look around
<crimsun> debconf is more than likely overkill
<LaserJock> yes
<crimsun> zenity, whiptail, ...
<jaldhar> don't use debconf or a manual prompt.  Put it in NEWS.Debian
<jaldhar> or actually README.Debian now I've read the rest of the conversation
<ajmitch> well, looks like #ubuntu is fairly insane still
<LaserJock> yep
<ajmitch> someone ranting on debian lists again
<Arrogance> ajmitch, the natives making you nervous?  ;)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: is there a time when somebody isn't
<LaserJock> ajmitch: d-d?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ranting about a 'certain brand new debian-like distribution'
<ajmitch> & bugs
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha
<LaserJock> yeah, because of course Debian has not bugs
<ajmitch> sigh
<LaserJock> what happened now?
<ajmitch> sun people sending out announcements about ubuntu on sparc
<ajmitch> but the images aren't final yet
<LaserJock> so what is sparc used for, I'm not imagining it as your typical desktop arch
<ajmitch> servers
<ajmitch> and the kernel for the sunfire T1000 has a problem with the network driver
<ajmitch> T1000 is one of the new, shiny niagara-based systems
<ajmitch> luckily I've got T2000s to play on, which have a different network driver
<lucas> hiya
<LaserJock> hi lucas
<lucas> i wanna join Python Team
<LaserJock> go for it
<lucas> where?
<ajmitch> it's best to join the MOTUs rather than just the python team
<lucas> hum
<lucas> yeah
<lucas> so
<lucas> i wanna join the motu ^^
<LaserJock> lucas: wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams
<ajmitch> of course joining the MOTU team just means doing a lot of work for no pay ;)
<lucas> of course xD
<crimsun> I need about 4 more hours/day
<LaserJock> only 4?
<LaserJock> I could use 8 I think
<ajmitch> crimsun: that time of year?
<crimsun> ajmitch: hehe. Well, it seems everything condensed /today/. Dapper release+merging updates+conference call+[...] 
<ajmitch> ah yes...
<ajmitch> you're working on updates now?
<crimsun> yeah, got a whole queue :/
<ajmitch> :(
<ajmitch> I've got a bunch of stuff I need to update as well
<ajmitch> great, sounds like I've still got a chance of my sound problem being fixed if it still exists ;)
<ajmitch> I haven't been brave enough to test lately
<crimsun> the oss/hda bit?
<ajmitch> alsa & doom3
<ajmitch> intel8x0 driver
<crimsun> oh that's right, you're using alsa for it
<crimsun> hmm, not snd_hda_intel?
<ajmitch> not on this motherboard
<crimsun> k
<ajmitch> that's for the laptop
<ajmitch> where I had the realtek codec issue until you patched it
<crimsun> sorry, too many issues running around :-)
<ajmitch> yeah :)
* ajmitch confesses to having grabbed the daily images to beat off the rush
<ajmitch> well, to do testing actually
<crimsun> :-)
<bmonty> ajmitch: did you have a chance to look at my kerberos stuff?
<ajmitch> at the python wrapper? no, not really
<bmonty> I'm curious to hear what other people think of the way I set it up, so any comments are appreciated
<ajmitch> ok :)
<crimsun> hah!  "It wasn't covered by the generic HP entry because of a hardware bug (the SSID is reversed)."
<crimsun> gotta /love/ manufacturers.
<ajmitch> bmonty: might as well package it ;)
<ajmitch> crimsun: sounds crazy
<bmonty> ajmitch: I don't think it is anywhere close to being ready to package
<ajmitch> it's not
<ajmitch> but I still have an aversion to installing stuff from source
<bmonty> ajmitch: it is as simple as "python setup.py install --home=~" and you get the lib in ~/lib/python
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> I still tend to prefer things tidier ;)
<crimsun> hmm, where's fabbione
* crimsun skips the sparc commit momentarily
<ajmitch> still in london, I suppose
<ajmitch> what sparc breakage are you doing?
<crimsun> I just need him or another sparc hero to double{, and triple}-check this free_irq/iounmap fix
<crimsun> it makes sense logically, but I would rather have someone better versed in sparc look at it
* ajmitch only uses the system :)
<ajmitch> I don't know the code well enough yet
<crimsun> oh wait, benc, duh
<crimsun> I love auditing sound/ once I see a quirk :/
<LaserJock> bmonty: can you uninstall when you do python setup.py?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: rm -rf
<LaserJock> that's not very nice
<LaserJock> if you do more than one
<bmonty> LaserJock: yeah, I think the python setup module can do uninstall
<bmonty> I take that back, it doesn't appear to have an uninstall option
<LaserJock> :/
<bmonty> my code generates a single file, so it isn't that hard to remove :)
<LaserJock> I installed bzr on my mac that way but then I got it through fink so I want to uninstall the one I did from source
<bddebian> Heya gang
<zakame> hi all!
<zakame> hi bddebian!
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<ajmitch> hey zakame
<bddebian> ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<LaserJock> hi zakame
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<ajmitch> bddebian
<zakame> hi ajmitch LaserJock
<bugnthecode> this room is quiet. any watching?
<crimsun> yes, we're just exhausted. What's up?
<bugnthecode> well, I just got dapper up and going today, and wanted to get into some linux programming, and more importantly maybe contribute to ubuntu
<crimsun> there are some good links in the /topic if you'd like to start there
<bugnthecode> would an amateur developer be able to contribute much?
<crimsun> absolutely.
<LaserJock> bugnthecode: yeah, this place is great for getting started
<crimsun> coding's most definitely not the only space for contribution
<bugnthecode> I saw on the main ubuntu that there were other ways to contribute like spreading the word, and bug testing
<LaserJock> sure
<crimsun> yep, #ubuntu-bugs is an /awesome/ place to start, too
<LaserJock> basically, whatever your interest is, Ubuntu has a place to get involved, not matter your skill level
<bugnthecode> awesome.
<bugnthecode> since I'm new to linux development, and team development, are there any tools or specific standards that contributing developers should be using?
<crimsun> guidelines are at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<crimsun> (that may be redirected in a few days to a new location, as I believe there's a wiki migration occurring)
<LaserJock> nah, that one will stay
<crimsun> for MOTU specifically, REVU is a valuable tool, and you can find out more about that in the wiki's MOTU section
<crimsun> LaserJock maintains a packaging guide that you'll find useful
<bugnthecode> any "standard" development environments or language standards usually used for linux development?
<crimsun> and as always, just ask when you have questions, though it may take a bit for someone to answer as we're all volunteers
<crimsun> (well, nearly all volunteers)
<LaserJock> bugnthecode: could you be a little more specific with what you want to do?
* crimsun goes to get dinner
<bddebian> apt-get install build-essential devscripts :-)
<LaserJock> bugnthecode: do you want to package programs? or write programs? or fix bugs? or ..
<bddebian> bon apetit crimsun :)
<bugnthecode> I'm looking to write programs
<LaserJock> bugnthecode: ok, so if you want to do GUIs then the most common widget sets are GTK (Gnome) and QT (KDE)
<LaserJock> but pretty much any language goes
<bugnthecode> and what about fixing bugs?
<bddebian> Except Perl.  That's not allowed. ;-P
<bugnthecode> lol, not a perl lover?
<LaserJock> bddebian: ssssh
<LaserJock> bugnthecode: Ubuntu does favor Python somewhat
<LaserJock> bugnthecode: we have lots of bug lists and we always need triaging and if you can come up with a patch that's awesome
<bugnthecode> I've never gone bug hunting, how would I get started with that. I think I'd like to start there first, instead of full blown development.
<LaserJock> bugnthecode: wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad
<LaserJock> we have lots to hunt
<LaserJock> and the major hangout for bug fixing is #ubuntu-bugs
<bugnthecode> thanks!
<LaserJock> no problem, that's what we are here for (most of the time) :-)
<bugnthecode> out of curiosity, what do you do for ubuntu (besides volunteer to answering my newbie linux questions)?
<LaserJock> I'm on the documentation team and on try to help with Edubuntu
<bugnthecode> cool
<bddebian> I just annoy people :-)
<LaserJock> and of course try to fix bugs
<LaserJock> I'm a chemist so I try to work on Science packages here
<bugnthecode> awesome, I work with a bunch of biochemists
<Kyral> I spout random anime references :P
<bddebian> heh
<Kyral> And now
<Kyral> TO THE SHOWER!!
<bddebian> Yeah, Kyral might actually be more annoying than me ;-)
<LaserJock> Kyral: and get crazy about hurd :-)
<Kyral> Jeez, I had to give myself a crash course in Perl today :P
<LaserJock> ewwww
<Kyral> but really
<Kyral> Kyral->shower();
<LaserJock> hmm, does free server hosting exist?
<LaserJock> hmm, I guess somebody just needs to give me an account on there server ;-)
<bugnthecode> lol
<bugnthecode> what kind of hosting are you looking for?
<LaserJock> well, I'd like to at least have a storage place online
<LaserJock> I'm often behind firewalls etc, that make it hard to access stuff
<LaserJock> but maybe I'm just being greedy now ;-)
<bugnthecode> I've seen some free or really low cost hosting, but they always have that damn limit on bandwidth
<bddebian> LaserJock: I have a box I set up to be my archive for Ubuntu/Hurd if you want
<LaserJock> bddebian: thanks for the offer but I don't know that I should be taking away from the Hubuntu project :-)
<bddebian> I don't know if I'll ever do it.  The Debian folks like Debian and the GNU folks are too zealous for me :-)
<LaserJock> I guess I could use the Chemistry department server, but I hate doing that for non-school related stuff
<LaserJock> and tiber.tauware.de and doc.ubuntu.com probably wouldn't be appropriate for my little personal playground
<LaserJock> if I could access my school computers it wouldn't be so bad
<LaserJock> anyway, that is waaay OT
<LaserJock> anybody know how to password protect a webpage?
* Sp4rKy is back (gone 05:52:52)
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: could you turn off the public away? thanks.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I am assuming that it has something to do with .htaccess files.
<TheMuso> BTW are you excited about Parris?
<bddebian> Yeah, you can use .htaccess or there are other methods available
<crimsun> bddebian: hehe, thanks
<LaserJock> TheMuso: yeah, I got my passport and plane tickets (sort of) so I'm feeling a little more excited
<bddebian> crimsun: ?
* TheMuso probably won't feel excited till a few days before he flies out.
<bddebian> Oh, :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, and how do you find space quotas for a user?
<LaserJock> sorry for the linux101 here
<crimsun> ``quota'' or ``fs quota'' depending on the fs
<LaserJock> hmm, no go. Maybe I don't have a quota
<LaserJock> yikes, I'm using 1.6GB on the department server
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> I guess I had a /home backup on there, oops
<bddebian> Ack, gnight folks
<crimsun> 'night bddebian
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock, yes i'll do
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: thanks :-)
<Sp4rKy> :)
<LaserJock> I suppose all the cool people are out at release parties
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> which is why I'm still here
<crimsun> well, bddebian just left, so I guess all the cool people are out :-)
<ajmitch> it's just us wannabe developers left
<LaserJock> yep
<ajmitch> well, wannabes & laserjock
<ajmitch> & crimsun
<ajmitch> who's special for getting a congrats in the kernel changelog
<whiprush_> heh
<ajmitch> hey whiprush_
<whiprush_> only 18 hours until our release party.
* ajmitch has no party planned
<LaserJock> I'm just sitting in the kitchen listening to the wife cooking and trying to clean up computers
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> if only I had a wife to cook for me.. :)
<LaserJock> well, she is also trying to get me to help ;-)
<LaserJock> so I'm "working"
<ajmitch> ah yes
<whiprush_> man, the digg unix/linux queue is crammed with *buntu stuff.
<whiprush_> crazy.
<ajmitch> whiprush_: who'd care about that piece of...?
<whiprush_> ajmitch: *shrug*
<ajmitch> crazy people
<whiprush_> ajmitch: that makes you a ROCK STAR.
<ajmitch> ah, *finally* twiki lets me register
<ajmitch> useless POC
* ajmitch blames the dodgy server setup
<ajmitch> whiprush_: how am I a ROCK STAR?
<whiprush_> ajmitch: just felt like fanboing you for a minute. :D
<whiprush_> only a minute though, don't push it.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> that's a minute longer than I ever deserve :)
<ajmitch> now, my activity for the evening is hot, hot SPECS
<Kyral> Kyral->bed();
<LaserJock> ajmitch: cool, for SoC stuf?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yep
<ajmitch> & also non-SoC, I think
<ajmitch> time to write up some draft specs
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> I'd like to do that too, but I'm afraid I don't have much for good ideas
<ajmitch> but I need to do network auth with mithrandir tonight, before he goes away for the weekend
<ajmitch> jane wants SoC specs by monday
<LaserJock> JaneW?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> mistress janew, the one with the whip :P
<ajmitch> scary person
<LaserJock> yes, sadly she won't be here much longer :/
<ajmitch> really?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> she won't even be in Paris
<LaserJock> :(
* ajmitch hasn't kept up with where people will be
<ajmitch> that's sad
<ajmitch> I've noticed a few silent additions to the canonical flock in various areas
<LaserJock> yeah, the long hours and frequent trips
<ajmitch> like the support team being formed up in montreal
<ajmitch> doesn't surprise me that there's some turnover in staff though
<ajmitch> canonical doesn't seem like a place where you can slack off ;)
<LaserJock> and she has kids, so that's tough
<whiprush_> janew is moving on?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> whiprush_: you going to be in paris?
<whiprush_> no.
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> neither shall I
<ajmitch> only rock stars like LaserJock :)
<whiprush_> I'm hitting the ubucon they're doing after LWE in san francisco though.
<LaserJock> \o/
<LaserJock> whiprush_: I was planning on that too
<whiprush_> LaserJock: sweet.
<LaserJock> I live ~ 4hrs drive from there
<ajmitch> whiprush_: got anything cool queued for the fridge?
<crimsun> we're missing out on ponies in Paris :((
<ajmitch> LaserJock: nice, I'm only about 14 hours flight from SF :)
<whiprush_> ajmitch: no, I've been slacking.
<ajmitch> it's great being in NZ, far away from anywhere & anyone
<ajmitch> having to pay exorbitant amounts :)
<ajmitch> crimsun: no ponies?
<whiprush_> spending too much time at work. :-/
<ajmitch> never a good sign
<whiprush_> well, it's all linux stuff, so it's mostly self inflicted.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: but you guys had UDU
<ajmitch> we did
<ajmitch> and we also have LCA in our region
<whiprush_> ajmitch: today I had what I call a "cool" emergency ... one of the windows labs blew up so the prof had to move it at the last minute to our new dapper lab.
<ajmitch> this year being better than most for LCA
<ajmitch> whiprush_: haha, nice
<whiprush_> So I stayed after to help students learn the new stuff.
<whiprush_> took all night, but rewarding.
<ajmitch> what new stuff did you have to show?
<whiprush_> well, some commercial CAD apps on amd64.
<whiprush_> I was supposed to test it all summer, but it was either cancel it or send 40 people home.
<whiprush_> so we just let them loose on the dapper lab.
<whiprush_> ended up working great.
<ajmitch> you using ldap/kerberos there? :)
<whiprush_> all those little memory optimizations add up when you have all of them on one server
<whiprush_> ajmitch: yep. :D
<ajmitch> cool
<ajmitch> give me your feature requests, your problems..
<whiprush_> printing even worked ootb, I didn't expect that.
<LaserJock> I talked to the deparment sys admin (a CS major) and he said that our uni got rid of most of the linux lab :(
<ajmitch> LaserJock: typical
<whiprush_> ajmitch: I've requisitioned some servers and planned to throw them into your SoC testing cause.
<ajmitch> whiprush_: you are my hero
<whiprush_> ajmitch: yeah, not ready soon, but probably by the time you're ready to test.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what do you need testing for?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ldap+kerberos client & server setup
<ajmitch> bmonty has also offered to sacrifice a few chickens for the cause
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> dang it, sometimes I wish I was a CS major so this could be more than a 40hr a week hobby :-)
<ajmitch> hehe
<whiprush_> I am starting my CS masters in the fall, not looking forward to it.
<ajmitch> whiprush_: interesting, what in?
<crimsun> I think if you were a CS major, you'd quickly wish for something different ;-)
<whiprush_> they just started a more practical program at my U, less math/theory, more practical deployment/networking stuff.
<whiprush_> It's more of an "IT" type course, but under CS.
<ajmitch> nice
<ajmitch> sounds like some of the telecommunications stuff here
<LaserJock> I'm 4 years into my PhD so I think it is a little late to switch majors :-)
<ajmitch> which I've been involved with
<ajmitch> LaserJock: never!
<whiprush_> ajmitch: yeah my undergrad is in telecomm.
<crimsun> LaserJock: just get another
<ajmitch> I'm sure his wife would love that
<LaserJock> I've been thinking about the possibility of working for a chemistry software company
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I'd be dead, not doubt about it
<crimsun> your wife won't allow you to work for a software development firm?
<ajmitch> I think the death threats would be from doing another PHD
<whiprush_> ajmitch: they offer some undergrad "open source" classes, but they're not very good.
<whiprush_> in our area the top oss-friendly programs are at the university of michigan, which has a program I could never get into.
<crimsun> oh man, I'm being dragged away from my research this summer to teach a course on Linux fundamentals. I am totally bringing ponies.
<ajmitch> crimsun: take some ponies to paris
<ajmitch> smuggle them through customs
<whiprush_> If only we had a linux course. I'm having a hard time dragging our greybeard UNIX faculty away from solaris 8.
<crimsun> ajmitch: I'm not able to go, which is why we're missing out :/
<ajmitch> crimsun: oh :(
<ajmitch> chronic pony shortage then
<whiprush_> crimsun: what are is your research in?
<whiprush_> crimsun: area I mean.
<crimsun> whiprush_: grid computing, but this summer I'm messing with autonomous agents
<whiprush_> sounds neat.
<crimsun> I'm quickly learning that while C++ is nice for simulations, I really miss Python
<whiprush_> heh I was about to say "I'd kill for a new faculty guy who was hot on python."
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yes, another PhD
<LaserJock> ajmitch: a real job she'd like :-)
<crimsun> hmm, there are a few of those in the SoCal area (USCD, UCB)
<tuxmaniac> morning guys
<crimsun> Berkeley, Stanford, and MIT crank out a lot of Ph.D.s quite hot over FLOSS
<whiprush_> ajmitch: on the plus side, I've had faculty call me all day asking for an upgrade to dapper, so my life doesn't suck too bad. :D
<tuxmaniac> crimsun: I am planning to do a masters cum Phd on Embedded Systems.. Is there any sugestion for me?
<ajmitch> how I wish I had people begging me for that ;)
<ajmitch> tuxmaniac: lots of caffeine
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: heh. I wanted on some University
<crimsun> tuxmaniac: hmm, any specifics?
<tuxmaniac> Embedded Linux RTOS etc
<tuxmaniac> I meant the device driver layer
<tuxmaniac> crimsun: ^
<crimsun> tuxmaniac: the European universities are much hotter into that than most US ones, particularly German and Dutch ones
<tuxmaniac> crimsun: hmmm..
<crimsun> on the other hand, UIUC has a great program for EE/CE/CS
<tuxmaniac> crimsun: hmm.. great! But euro univs dont provide financial asistance to international students if i am right?
<crimsun> tuxmaniac: honestly I don't know
* TheMuso only has a music degree to his name, and isn't interested in doing any more univercity related study any time soon. )
<ajmitch> TheMuso: it's not needed :)
<TheMuso> I am just finishing off a TAFE course here n Aus for IT stuff. Just to get the piece of paper saying that I am capable etc etc.
<crimsun> hmph, tauneutrino isn't online, else I'd refer you to her. She's a Buffalo grad who got her M.S. from UTwente
<TheMuso> The field I intend to get into doesn't have any official certification as far as I know, but I am not interested in doing research. :)
<crimsun> tuxmaniac: if you're based out of the US, there may be an exchange program
<crimsun> and you can always scour for a prof going on sabbatical to another country
<tuxmaniac> crimsun: thanks. But am from INDIA
<crimsun> are you based out of IIT?
<dholbach> good morning, party folks! :-)
<Gloubiboulga> hey dholbach!
<dholbach> hey Gloubiboulga
<LaserJock> dholbach!
<ajmitch> dholbach!
<dholbach> heya LaserJock, ajmitch!
<ajmitch> how are you?
<dholbach> just waking up and soon digging into gnome 2.14.x for dapper-updates
<ajmitch> excellent
* ajmitch is already waiting for edgy to open
<ajmitch> then I get get the new 2.6.17 crack
<ajmitch> or I could just build from git
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Me too.
<TheMuso> I usually wait a few months before jumping abord the new release, but since I intend to get much more heavily involved from now on, I'll be running edgy on everything but a few machines that I need a working system on. :)
* dholbach will keep Dapper on the laptop to be able to upload and test gnome 2.14.3 to dapper-updates in august
<dholbach> after that i'll be on dapper everywhere too :-)
<TheMuso> dapper, or edgy?
<LaserJock> time fo bed for me, good night all
<LaserJock> have a wonderful day
<LaserJock> and thanks for all the work, you guys (and Hobbsee) rock!
<Toadstool> heya motus
<ajmitch> hi
<Gloubiboulga> morning Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi ajmitch & Gloubiboulga
<kagou> hi
<Toadstool> hi kagou
<kagou> hello Toadstool
<AnAnt> when will the repos for the new ubuntu (one after dapper) open ?
<Hobbsee> hi all
<TheMuso> Whenever the core devs open it.
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<TheMuso> What a damn miserable day.
<Hobbsee> edgy released?  2 days after the last person asked.
<TheMuso> Here in Sydney at least. :)
* Hobbsee got called a nerd today :P
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: so true.
<AnAnt> did you guys modify in the kernel ?
<AnAnt> I mean add drivers
<Mithrandir> yes
<tuxmaniac> AnAnt: yes. you mean from the vanilla one?
<Mithrandir> hi Hobbsee, TheMuso
<AnAnt> because I just tried 2.6.16 kernel & it can't detect my TI card reader
<AnAnt> I got the 2.6.16 from Debian
<AnAnt> I got the 2.6.16 from Debian's source package
<AnAnt> I mean from debian one
<TheMuso> 2.6.16 needs a newer udev than the one in dapper.
<tuxmaniac> yes. Ubuntu-kernel team have done a lot of kernel additions
<tuxmaniac> AnAnt: ^
<AnAnt> ic
<Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir
<tuxmaniac> especially on this udev intereaction
<TheMuso> as far as I understand from Scott's emails to the dev list re the 2.6.16 thread.
<tuxmaniac> Mithrandir: Am i right?
<TheMuso> Hi Mithrandir.
<AnAnt> well, I wanted the 2.6.16 to operate an MMCplus device
<tuxmaniac> AnAnt: hm..
<AnAnt> so, I think the solution is to use the kernel source from ubuntu's repos then apply the patch for mmcplus
<Mithrandir> AnAnt: probably.
<tuxmaniac> peerfect.. See mmcplus drivers are already built into the kern first
<Mithrandir> tuxmaniac: unsure, I don't watch the udev/kernel stuff too closely.
<AnAnt> tuxmaniac: huh?
<tuxmaniac> Mithrandir: aah OK
<tuxmaniac> AnAnt: naah.. forget it
<AnAnt> how can I download a patch for a certain kernel file ?
<TheMuso> According to an email I have from the dev list here re the 2.6.16 stuff, 2.6.16 has sysfs filesystem structure changes, and udev itself has changed somewhat for newer kernels.
<tuxmaniac> 2.6.16 still not up on the repos on Ubuntu. its still 2.6.15-23.35
<tuxmaniac> benc is still testing it..
<AnAnt> tuxmaniac: yeah, unfortunately
<AnAnt> tuxmaniac: you mean it's on REVU ?
<TheMuso> I think edgy will be going straight to 2.6.17-rc
<tuxmaniac> some probs on IA64 arch
<tuxmaniac> If I remember right
<crimsun> yes, edgy is 2.6.17-git atm
<tuxmaniac> AnAnt: which part of India are you from?
<AnAnt> tuxmaniac: none
<Mithrandir> tuxmaniac: our 2.6.15 is almost upstream 2.6.16, though.
<crimsun> dapper will remain 2.6.15ish
* highvoltage would like to visit Bollywood some day
<tuxmaniac> Mithrandir: yeah agreed
* tuxmaniac wonders for what highvoltage wishes to visit bollywood?
<highvoltage> sorry, just lame joke :)
* tuxmaniac hugs highvoltage for his sense of humour :-)
* highvoltage gives tuxmaniac a chocolate
* Hobbsee intercepts and steals the chocolate
<tuxmaniac> Mithrandir: Btw then no more releases on the 2.6.16-X
* Hobbsee munches happily
<tuxmaniac> for dapper?
<tuxmaniac> edgy will directly be on a 2.6.17 ? I dint know this
<AnAnt> is it possible to get the new kernel version thru dapper-backports ?
<crimsun> not yet, considering edgy isn't even active
<crimsun> that would/will be a maintenance nightmare, too
<AnAnt> I mean, when it becomes active
<crimsun> I don't know; I think it may be discussed in Paris
<tuxmaniac> crimsun: going too?
<crimsun> tuxmaniac: no, work has me here
<tuxmaniac> crimsun: I have some company then :-)
<AnAnt> I hope Edgy will have PREEMPT  kernel
<TheMuso> Dapper already does.
<AnAnt> it made my simulations faster
<AnAnt> TheMuso: yeah, that's why I hope Edgy will continue with that
<crimsun> it is highly unlikely that preempt support will be removed from the desktop kernels
<AnAnt> cool
<AnAnt> is the splash image that appears during booting something put in the kernel ?
<Mithrandir> no
<AnAnt> oh
<Mithrandir> it's entirely userspace and done by usplash
<AnAnt> because I didn't the splash image when I booted with 2.6.16 kernel that I compiled
<tuxmaniac> if you custom compile a kernel it goes off
<AnAnt> why's that?
<tuxmaniac> you have to configure it back
<crimsun> that's because you probably didn't update your initramfs for your custom kernel (if you in fact have initr* support enabled)
<tuxmaniac> Yeah.. I do have
<tuxmaniac> crimsun: What do I have to do to get it back?
<crimsun> update-initramfs [-u] 
<AnAnt> crimsun: ok, let's say I get the 2.6.15 kernel source from dapper's repos, and apply a patch & recompile, I still have to do that update thing ?
<tuxmaniac> But for sure there is something wrong with the udev <-> kernel thing
<crimsun> AnAnt: yes, though if you use the Ubuntu packaging infrastructure it's done automatically
<tuxmaniac> when you custom compile 2.6.16 stuff
<crimsun> tuxmaniac: yep, known
<tuxmaniac> hmm..
<AnAnt> crimsun: what do you mean by Ubuntu packaging infrastructure ? you mean like use make-kpkg ?
<crimsun> AnAnt: meaning if a deb is generated
* tuxmaniac will be right back
<crimsun> (yes, using make-kpkg)
<AnAnt> crimsun: yes, it was generated & I installed the deb file
<AnAnt> crimsun: that's what I did with 2.6.16 too
<AnAnt> thx
<opse3> what is the dapper equivalent of breezy's nvidia-glx?
<crimsun> nvidia-glx
<opse3> oh, ok, but now there's another problem: if i want to install it (on breezy, in order to upgrade to dapper), it says it want to remove the following packages: nvidia-settings, x-common, xorg-common, xserver-common, busybox-cvs-initramfs
<opse3> crimsun ^
<opse3> crimsun: should i accept that?
<opse3> crimsun: and, if so, what is the equivalent of nvidia-settings in dapper?
<opse3> it wants*
<crimsun> none of those are absolutely necessary
<crimsun> (they're all purged on my system, for instance)
<sladen> opse3: let it do its magic
<crimsun> and the equivalent is, unsurprisingly enough, nvidia-settings :-)
<sladen> opse3: and then file a bug regarding the fact that 'nvidia-glx' Conflicts: nvidia-settings
<sladen> (most likely reason is that nvidia-glx now contains that binary)
<ajmitch> sladen: correct, and nvidia-settings should be removed
<ajmitch> the latest update-manager should handle these cases now
<opse3> ajmitch: then why does dapper also include nvidia-settings (as crimsun just noted) and as i also just noticed in my synaptic?
<opse3> ajmitch: then why does dapper also include nvidia-settings (as crimsun just noted and as i also just noticed in my synaptic)?*
<opse3> ajmitch: is update-manager better than apt-get upgrade?
<ajmitch> yes, update-manager is the recommended upgrade path
<ajmitch> iirc
<ajmitch> and I don't know why nvidia-settings is still in the repository for dapper
<Hobbsee|Icicle> hi ajmitch and opse3
<opse3> ajmitch: but i must do the upgrade in more sessions
<ajmitch> hi
<opse3> ajmitch: update-manager doesn't allow me to select which packages to upgrade at a time
<opse3> Hobbsee|Icicle: hi
<ajmitch> morning \sh
<imbrandon> ajmitch ping
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yes?
* ajmitch is just eating dinner & then doing spec stuff
<imbrandon> heya are you familiar with building a pkg for revu ?
<ajmitch> yes
<imbrandon> i have the package bulding fine with debuild the way i like but dont i need to build it with -S or -S -sa for revu ?
<Hobbsee> mmm...dinner...
<imbrandon> i've never done a revu before
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yes you do
<ajmitch> you must build with -S -sa
<imbrandon> ok -S -sa kk thanks , i think i got the rest down pat
* imbrandon being the lazy one , whats -S -sa or should i just man debuild ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: means include sources
<imbrandon> ahh
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: write a shell script for it - it's quicker.
<imbrandon> its only one perl file and one conf file so the src would be included anyhow hehehe but yea
<ajmitch> having source included != source debian package
<ajmitch> since we need to review the debian/ dir
<imbrandon> yea ajmitch i got it, i just meant in general
<imbrandon> kinda brain fart
<imbrandon> as far as pure source that is
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: ping
<\sh> jo
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: can we delay until the hour?
<ajmitch> sure
<opse3> what is the name of the app that checks all orphans which {{{{don't belong to the official ubuntu selection anyway and so they}}} can be safely removed?
<opse3> the "{{{{don't belong to the official ubuntu selection anyway and so they}}}" is mandatory
<ajmitch> alright.
<imbrandon> opse3, deborphan ?
<sivang> I will help you over the package
<sivang> is it a python tol?
<imbrandon> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2352   <--- if any MOTU's wanna have a look for me
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: free now?
<ajmitch> hey schweeb
<ajmitch> imbrandon: so this is something that someone else has done, and you've just made a couple of changes?
<imbrandon> ajmitch yes , and its currently not in debian or dapper ( would like to target edgy )
<imbrandon> the official one can be found at http://apt-mirror.sf.net
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: hiya
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: sorry about the delay
<ajmitch> then you'd need to fix the version numbers such that it's -0ubuntu1 or similar
<imbrandon> ok , wasent sure on that since it wasent in debian
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: alright, no problem :)
<imbrandon> is there a way to fix that upload or just reupload ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: reupload, and the upstream should be educated as to what an orig.tar.gz is
<imbrandon> ok
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: where shall we start?
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: you've been speccing out some more, haven't you?
<ajmitch> yes, it's not up on the wiki
<ajmitch> a few changes locally
<Mithrandir> also, should we discuss this here or in #ubuntu-networkauth or something?
* ajmitch has gobby session running if we want to do it that way
<Mithrandir> gobby works for me, I just need to install it
<imbrandon> ajmitch : ok re-uploaded http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2353
<opse3> imbrandon: i don't think deborphan has any idea what an official dapper must include by default.
<TheMuso> If one uses qemu tools to create a vmdk, how does one then create the vmx file for vmware-player?
<imbrandon> TheMuso, by hand with nano or such
<imbrandon> its justa txt file
<TheMuso> But what do you put in it?
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ....not that. :)
<imbrandon> one sec
<imbrandon> here is an online form to build one for you
<imbrandon> http://www.easyvmx.com/expertform.shtml
<imbrandon> then you can tweak it with <fav txt editor here> as needed
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<zul> heylo
<imbrandon> heya zul
<zul> hey imbrandon
<ajmitch> zul!
<zul> stalker!
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon> lol
<HiddenHobbsee> hey zul
<opse3> what is the name of the app that checks all orphans which {{{{don't belong to the official ubuntu selection anyway and so they}}} can be safely removed?
<opse3> the "{{{{don't belong to the official ubuntu selection anyway and so they}}}" is mandatory
<havoc> morning
<havoc> so, what's the state of ubuntu *writing* to NTFS partitions, like in a bual-coot env?
<opse3> havoc: maybe you mean reading, not writing.
<havoc> nope, I want to write
<havoc> reading isn't a problem
<thierryn> ajmitch : can you change the topic now that dapper has been released?
<havoc> I've heard of 'captive', which apparently uses ntfs.sys directly or something
<opse3> havoc: iirc, there are legal issues with captive
<havoc> ah
<opse3> havoc: however, maybe you should ask on #ubuntu-devel
<havoc> I was just curious
<opse3> havoc: there may be some unofficial repos that include this, though
<opse3> thierryn: what would need to be changed in the current topic?
<havoc> figured ajmitch, ogra, or chillywilly might have something to say about it, but they're not here right now
<thierryn> opse3 : to remove the fact that we are in feature freeze and say something like "yeah we realeased dapper drake!"
<opse3> thierryn: oh, hadn't noticed that
<bddebian> Heya gang
<havoc> bddebian: hiya
<bddebian> Hello havoc
<havoc> I may *finally* install ubuntu (on my vaio), now that I've finally figured out how to replace the hdd
<bddebian> Great
<havoc> got a 120gb hdd coming today :)
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: booo
<tuxmaniac> heya gang
<bddebian> Heh, hi tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: howdy
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: brb
<tuxmaniac> am outside
<tuxmaniac> see ya
<LaserJock> morning people
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee.
* Hobbsee thumps StevenK very hard.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee!
* Hobbsee mutters about horrible people
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: :)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you do any Dapper partying last night?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i did not - i found a kubuntu user today though
<Hobbsee> didnt party :(
* Hobbsee does not party though
<LaserJock> me neither
<LaserJock> I just hung out here
* StevenK didn't either.
<LaserJock> gosh, we are boring :-)
<StevenK> I had to get home, otherwise I would have gone out and watched other people drink beer.
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee is always boring.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: You? In #ubuntu-devel?
* StevenK double checks.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yeah, for the moment
<StevenK> Gasp.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> dont die of shock :
<Hobbsee> :P
<\sh> I partied 2 times
<\sh> before and after the release
<\sh> now we have 20 more kubuntu fans in this company
<LaserJock> cool
<bddebian> Hehe, heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> are you boring too bddebian?
<zul> yeah he is :)
<\sh> ok..going home
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yep :'-(
<Kyral_Laptop> anyone decent with perl?
<LaserJock> no
<Kyral_Laptop> psh
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: of course i do :P
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: tricked ya didn't I, hehe :-)
<Hobbsee> you're all big scary horrible people :P
<Hobbsee> @time sydney
<Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: June 03 2006, 01:50:14
<crimsun> what? bddebian can't be boring, he's a deity
<LaserJock> you sayin' I'm fat?
<Hobbsee> hmmm....
<Hobbsee> i said nothing of the sort.
<LaserJock> you said "big"
<Hobbsee> yes, big as in tall.
<LaserJock> the scary and horrible, well that might apply ;-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: if i do eventually come to a dev meetup, i'll make sure i ignore you, so you have a basis to believe that i hate you.  how's that sound?
<LaserJock> :'(
<Hobbsee> :P
<bddebian> crimsun: I hate you! ;-P
<Hobbsee> bddebian: whyever so, hehe?
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Because he mocks me because I'm st00pid
<Hobbsee> ah :P
<Hobbsee> oh yes, from above
* Hobbsee is a bit slow after 2am..
<tuxmaniac> hi jpatrick
<tuxmaniac> how are you?
<jpatrick> hi tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Long time no see.. So celbrated Dapper?
<Hobbsee> hey jpatrick and tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> hi Hobbsee
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: no nothing/noone to celebrate with
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: I'm okay, I guess, how about you?
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: aah, doing good. Just that dapper has made life simple and not testing my hcking skills. :-)
<thierryn> If I want to update my chroot, do I put edgy as the distribution?
<bddebian> thierryn: AFAIK, edgy repo isn't open yet
<thierryn> k thanks
<Tonio_> hi
<bddebian> Heya Tonio_
<Tonio_> hey bddebian :)
<Kyral_Laptop> It works...
<Kyral_Laptop> hehe
<Kyral_Laptop> the perl rewrite of my script :D
<WolfPython> hi,
<WolfPython> I need some getting started with packaging.
<Bluekuja> WolfPython, http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<WolfPython> Can you guys give me some advise on where to start? Any recommended doc or book to read?
<Bluekuja> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html   for libraries
<Bluekuja> read also debian policy and so on, anyway it's all linked in New Maint guide document
<WolfPython> Wow. So it is true! You guys ARE really help full. Thank you. I will look into all of those.
<Bluekuja> ok great :)
<WolfPython> Does the motu-school a live?
<WolfPython> I read it in the archives
<Bluekuja> do you mean motu-school team?
<Bluekuja> or what?
<WolfPython> yes. sorry
<Bluekuja> anyway if you have problems with packaging just ask and someone will answer you as soon as possible
<crimsun> WolfPython: start with the packaging guide
<Bluekuja> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<Bluekuja> here it is
<WolfPython> ok. thank you.:)
<crimsun> WolfPython: the school hasn't been active in some months due to everyone being busy
<Bluekuja> it's a very nice guide, it will be easier to start with
<siretart> hey crimsun
<crimsun> hullo siretart
<siretart> crimsun: do you happen to know if darren salt ircs?
<crimsun> siretart: I don't know, sorry
<siretart> I don't think so, but I'm not sure either
<WolfPython> curimsun: Is there a mailing list to subscribe so I will not miss it when it gets active?
<crimsun> WolfPython: ubuntu-motu
<WolfPython> Thank you
<bddebian> Later gang
<crimsun> cya bddebian
<bddebian> Later crimsun
<Kyral_Laptop> hmm
<Kyral_Laptop> I'm gonna have to block glibc upgrades on my server
<Kyral_Laptop> Xen no like the glibc in the repos
<LaserJock> hi \sh
<\sh> re
<Kyral_Laptop> ...and I also have to recompile gcc...
* Kyral_Laptop sighs
<Kyral_Laptop> Sometimes Sarge is a PAIN
<crimsun> um...ok...so is {s,}he going to join?
<crimsun> oh good
<Kyral_Laptop> huh?
<LaserJock> don't know
* Kyral_Laptop blinks
<crimsun> neuRo] : what LaserJock is referring to is that you need deb-src lines uncommented in /etc/apt/sources.list
* Kyral_Laptop walks away to fiddle with his Xen Server
<Kyral_Laptop> Actually you don't...
<Kyral_Laptop> Oh can I make a suggestion. For Edgy if we want to include Xen, we are gonna have to recompile Glibc
<Kyral_Laptop> or change its compile flags
<neuRo] > i am on windows right now, i'm abut to install ubuntu on a new partition and i want to get the source-code so i can play with the os
<neuRo] > or read it.. whichever.
<Kyral_Laptop> ah then you do
<LaserJock> neuRo] : it is much easier once you install it
<Kyral_Laptop> an...dude....unless you like ASM lol
<Yagisan> Kyral_Laptop: I like ASM
<neuRo] > asm is great.
<Kyral_Laptop> ...you are freaks...
<crimsun> neuRo] : the source packages are available at any mirror: http://somemirror/ubuntu/pool/
<crimsun> neuRo] : however, you can also retrieve the source using links from http://packages.ubuntu.com/src:package
<neuRo] > all i see is a ton of folders with deb files
<Yagisan> Kyral_Laptop: I learned to code in ASM
<neuRo] > not source.
<crimsun> neuRo] : by far the easiest way [once you're running Ubuntu]  is to enable the deb-src lines and then ``apt-get source package''
<Yagisan> neuRo] : look carefully. that is the source
<neuRo] > there's no way to just download the entire OS's source with all of the c/c++ files intact at once
<neuRo] > without this whole annoying package/deb/whatever stuff
<Kyral_Laptop> The entire OS
<Kyral_Laptop> is HOW many packages?!
<crimsun> neuRo] : red hat provides that, iirc
<neuRo] > i don't care how many packages there are
<Kyral_Laptop> .....
<Kyral_Laptop> and the mirror is HOW big?!
<Kyral_Laptop> On the scale of a couple hundred GB for the source?
<neuRo] > i just want everything in a folder like /dev/ubuntusrc or something
<crimsun> neuRo] : currently no Ubuntu archive distributes an image that you're asking for
<LaserJock> neuRo] : hmm, that would take a lot of time and bandwith
<crimsun> we're talking something like 110 GB
<Yagisan> neuRo] : you'd need to make it yourself then
<Kyral_Laptop> and you do realize that Ubuntu is a Linux Distro, Ubuntu != Linux :P
<Kyral_Laptop> err
<Kyral_Laptop> wait
<neuRo] > the source-code for the latest of each of these packages all extracted to simple C/C++ code wouldn't possibly encompass more than 10 GB
<Kyral_Laptop> damn that has two trues
<Kyral_Laptop> neuRo] : they all aren't in C
<Kyral_Laptop> You have every language represented
<crimsun> neuRo] : yes, but you asked for the distro+source code, which is precisely what "pool" is.
<Yagisan> neuRo] : you'd be so wrong, it's not funny
<neuRo] > i just want the C stuff.
<Kyral_Laptop> ...
<Kyral_Laptop> That would take one HELL of a grep
<neuRo] > why the hell would you guys go and overcomplicate everything?
<Kyral_Laptop> why am I getting suspcious?
<crimsun> neuRo] : what you want is orig.tar.gz+diff.gz for every package offered
<Yagisan> neuRo] : we don't. you have an unreasonable request
<LaserJock> neuRo] : that is very hard to determine, we have thousands of packages from thousands of authors
<Kyral_Laptop> You do realize that whatever you do with them you have to abide by their licenses
<neuRo] > i want the source to the distro, not to every package you can download for the distro
<Kyral_Laptop> ....
* Kyral_Laptop laughs
<Kyral_Laptop> Oh that is a good one
<neuRo] > you guys just don't understand.
<crimsun> neuRo] : ok, what are you calling "distro?"
<LaserJock> neuRo] : the distro is made up of thousands of packages
<\sh> it's not BSD
<Yagisan> neuRo] : are you high ?
<Kyral_Laptop> I am VERY suspcious now
<crimsun> neuRo] : are you referring to the live cd that you can install?
<Kyral_Laptop> I want to know what he wants them for
<Yagisan> theft ?
<crimsun> a leaked beta iso?
<\sh> emerge ubuntu
<Kyral_Laptop> We already give them away via GPL and the various FSF license
<Yagisan> sorry, I meant forking without the copyright notices attached
<crimsun> neuRo] : if you would clarify what you mean by "distro," that would help.
<crimsun> we think of "distro" as the entire "pool" of available packages.
<neuRo] > i'd like them because i would very much like to be able to modify anything in the OS i'm using
<crimsun> what is "them"?
<Kyral_Laptop> The funny part is that you can apt-get install gentoo
<\sh> hum?
<neuRo] > them = source
* Kyral_Laptop falls down
<LaserJock> Kyral_Laptop: but it is a file manager :-)
<crimsun> source to what, all possible packages or just the ones on the live/install cd?
<\sh> neuRo] : man debmirror
<neuRo] > the ones that come with the install
<Yagisan> Kyral_Laptop: yeah. that file manager was around a long time before the gentoo distro was
<Kyral_Laptop> Someone just give him a link to the GNU Website
<Kyral_Laptop> Yagisan: I know :P
<Kyral_Laptop> or if he really wants source
<\sh> neuRo] : apt-get source debian-installer
<crimsun> neuRo] : then you'll want to look at what's seeded and just retrieve the orig.tar.gz+diff.gz for those packages
* Kyral_Laptop tosses neuRo]  a copy of LFS
* Yagisan suspects a troll
<Kyral_Laptop> You THINK?
<Kyral_Laptop> lol
<Kyral_Laptop> No MS Cloak :P
<LaserJock> neuRo] : the problem is that the code isn't one big pile of source code, each app has it's own source
<Yagisan> Kyral_Laptop: well, I'd need to get a picture, as looking at LOTR I don't think their fingers could type, but I may be wrong
<Kyral_Laptop> ...
<Kyral_Laptop> Yagisan: that was horrible
<Yagisan> Kyral_Laptop: thank you.
<neuRo] > i know
<neuRo] > i don't want the source for all the apps like the notepad/word processor/etc
<Kyral_Laptop> If you want the Kernel source
<neuRo] > just the OS itself, the desktop and what runs what you see
<Kyral_Laptop> www.kernel.org
<Kyral_Laptop> I think he fails to see the non-definition of OS here
<\sh> neuRo] : debmirror and put in as section "main"
<Yagisan> neuRo] : we sent you a link to all the source of the OS
<crimsun> neuRo] : look at the source package ubuntu-meta, and in particular, look inside ubuntu-meta at ubuntu-desktop
<Kyral_Laptop> GNU/Linux is the OS
<Kyral_Laptop> Ubuntu is a flavor
* Yagisan has to get to work on a saturday morning :(
<Yagisan> bbl
<\sh> Kyral_Laptop: it's named "Linux" not GNU/Linux.
<\sh> the kernel actually
<Kyral_Laptop> yes
<Kyral_Laptop> and the Kernel + all the other stuff is...?
<Kyral_Laptop> GNU/Linux :P
<Kyral_Laptop> and lets not have this fight :P
<LaserJock> I really couldn't care less what it's called :-)
<LaserJock> I just know Ubuntu rocks
<LaserJock> neuRo] : the problem is that you are still looking at trying to get the source for hundreds of packages
<\sh> Kyral_Laptop: hehe
<LaserJock> neuRo] : we don't have an easy mechanism for that. 99.99% of the time people want to get the source for just one or two packages at a time
<LaserJock> neuRo] : and that is pretty straight forward
<neuRo] > i just want the source for the core of ubuntu, do you understand or not?
<Erl[Work] > hello all.  Now that Dapper is release, will some MOTU check my package for kpl?
<LaserJock> neuRo] : I'm guessing that would be the kernel, and you can look at kernel.org for that
<Bazzi> neuRo] : there is no such thing as "core of ubuntu"
<Bazzi> except for the kernel as core.. sudo apt-get install linux-source
<LaserJock> Erl[Work] : edgy hasn't opened up yet and we are still sort of in shell shock I think. Give us a few days :-)
<Erl[Work] > LaserJock: np ;p I kinda already know what you'll think of it so it'll give me some time to review that.
<Erl[Work] > I want to get involved more seriously for Edgy.
<Kyral_Laptop> neuRo] : you don't understand the modular nature of the beast
<Kyral_Laptop> If there is ANY core it is either ubuntu-minimal or ubuntu-base
<neuRo] > LaserJock: pm
<Kyral_Laptop> oy this is suspcious
<Bazzi> conspiracy of one
<Kyral_Laptop> if source is what he's after..give him Gentoo or LFS
<Erl[Work] > Is there a channel for the backport team?
<LaserJock> possibly
<LaserJock> is there much of a team?
<Bazzi> damn, #ubuntu is really overcrowded atm
<jpatrick> Bazzi: that's a great album
<Erl[Work] > LaserJock: there is a mailing list
<Erl[Work] > there is a Backporters team... it's small
<LaserJock> jdong and mez?
<Erl[Work] > I guess.
<jpatrick> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-backporters
<siretart> Erl[Work] : we have some ppl who worked on backports. unfortunately, there hasn't been much activity from them lately.
<LaserJock> I think if the backport policy was better it might get more activity
<Erl[Work] > I'd be interested in working on that a bit.
<LaserJock> for goodness sakes, I can't find an xfig-like app to save my life :(
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-03
<sistpoty> hi folks
<crimsun> hi sistpoty :)
<sistpoty> seems like I missed the dapper release
<LaserJock> what? Dapper was released?!?! ;-)
<crimsun> dude, no, we skipped dapper and went straight to edgy, because edgy has ponies.
<LaserJock> ohhhh, poooonnnies :-)
<ajmitch> morning
<ajmitch> ZOMG PONIES!!!\
<ajmitch> sorry
<ajmitch> I'll calm down now
<Erl[Work] > poniges?
<Erl[Work] > err
<Erl[Work] > ponies?
<ajmitch> yes, ponies
<sistpoty> yeehaa
<sistpoty> phew... I'm just trying to figure some code of revu2... I must admit that I don't have much clue after this long time not working on revu2 :(
<ajmitch> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hey ajmitch
<LaserJock> yeah, are we going to have a REVU2 day/week or something?
<sistpoty> not sure... there's still too much stuff to code actually :(
<LaserJock> well, a REVU2 sprint then?
<imbrandon> revu2  ?
* sistpoty is just trying to... find out what /me and siretart wrote back then
* ajmitch looked over the spec recently
<sistpoty> imbrandon: it's like revu but much cooler... and it's vaporware since quite some time ;)
<ajmitch> fun times, discussing the spec at UBZ
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> ajmitch did you get a sec to look at my reupload on revu ?
<ajmitch> nope
<imbrandon> kk
<LaserJock> I'd love to help out with REVU2 but my Python skills are probably lacking quite a bit
<ajmitch> there's plenty of time until edgy feature freeze
<LaserJock> well, that and I'm doing like a million things for Edgy already
<ajmitch> yay, mdz has posted a potential timeline for edgy
<imbrandon> ohh yea i know , was just curious since thats the first time i've actualy done a full package
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> spec like mad until the 18th!
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I got handed the Ubuntu Developer's  Reference today
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sweet!
<ajmitch> how does it look?
<ajmitch> can you share it with us mortals?
<imbrandon> nice LaserJocker
<ajmitch> or is it only for Real Developers? ;)
<LaserJock> well, Ian just got started with it, so it is going to take a lot of work I think
<Toadstool> heya everybody!
<imbrandon> moins
<LaserJock> ajmitch: it is based on the DDR though so it should look familiar :-)
* ajmitch feels like he's had too much caffeine
<Toadstool> nice, revu2 trac was spammed...
<LaserJock> spammed? those evil DD's trying to mess up our nice little 0ubuntuX factory :-)
<Toadstool> ;)
<ajmitch> burn the DDs!
<LaserJock> they turned me into a newt :'(
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> but I got better ;-)
<ajmitch> are you going to test if they float?
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> hmm, perhaps we can weigh sabdfl vs Towns
<ajmitch> no contest
<ajmitch> aj is a midget
<imbrandon> but does aj have a pony ?
<ajmitch> probably
<ajmitch> BDDEBIAN!!1
<imbrandon> heh
<sistpoty> hehe
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<Toadstool> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya folks!  ajmitch, imbrandon, Toadstool, sistpoty :-)
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<ajmitch> ah, cockfosters
* LaserJock kicks bddebian in the but
<LaserJock> t
<bddebian> Oh and Hi LaserJock :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: did you bring a pony?
<bddebian> Sure
<ajmitch> excellent
<LaserJock> bddebian: it's hard to know who to say hi to when I see you say hi in 4 different places :-)
<bddebian> Yeah, sorry :-)
<ajmitch> spamming the channels
<Toadstool> sistpoty: is the revu2 svn repos available for checkouts using http or something? I'd like to play with the code and see if I can help but I can't find any url in the wiki :/
<LaserJock> Toadstool: no it is a closed source, heavily guarded secret
<Toadstool> :)
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ajmitch> mmm, dapper-changes
<sistpoty> Toadstool: it was at least... not sure if it still is... give me a sec
<ajmitch> sweet GNOME 2.14.2
<Toadstool> sistpoty: thanks
<LaserJock> ajmitch: where?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: just a few packages for now
<ajmitch> like zenity, pessulus, glib2.0
<ajmitch> deskbar-applet
<Toadstool> I don't want to have to copy/paste the code from trac browser :p
<sistpoty> Toadstool: revu2 svn: http://tiber.tauware.de/svn/revu2
<Toadstool> cool, thanks :)
<sistpoty> np
<TheMuso> Whats better in revu2?
* LaserJock grabs it before it hits /.
<sistpoty> TheMuso: it can make coffee and will have lot's of ponies ;)
<TheMuso> heh
<sistpoty> and it's not that kind of hack revu1 currently (still) is... but has a more robust codebase
<LaserJock> it will be soooo worth it to see the ponies on LP ;-)
<sistpoty> :)
<ajmitch> there are some cool backgrounds in ubuntu now
<ajmitch> like those of the international space station ;)
<LaserJock> I wonder how much they had to pay for those? ;-)
<ajmitch> probably about 20 million or so
<ajmitch> tourists...
<ajmitch> "Ubuntu has the most expensive background images of any distribution out there"
<bddebian> heh
<imbrandon> just please tell me it will still keep me registerd and i dont have to do some pgp signing hoops and i'll be happy
<TheMuso> Ah. We now know when edgy will be opened.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: we do ?
<ajmitch> TheMuso: yes, in a few days
<LaserJock> imbrandon: eventually it will use your LP id
<TheMuso> Yeah I know.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: see -devel list
<imbrandon> ahh
* imbrandon needs to read his email more
<LaserJock> for some stupid reason I've got -announce on a digest
<LaserJock> so I got the digest today
<TheMuso> heh
<LaserJock> and it had dholbach's Hug Day annoucment from like the 16th
<TheMuso> me should really get onto -announce
<ajmitch> ah, it was -devel-announce, was it?
* ajmitch put -devel & -devel announce mail in the same folder
<TheMuso> Smart that.
<ajmitch> only smart if I make sure I read all the -devel mail :)
<TheMuso> heh
* Yagisan has them separate, because he skips most of -devel  due to low signal to noise
<ajmitch> true that
<TheMuso> I still skim -devel, only because I may miss an interesting message otherwise.
<TheMuso> ...and I don't want to do that.
<TheMuso> The most reading I have to do for -devel is when I first check my mail for the day.
<TheMuso> Even then I mostly read subjects only, and delete ones I am not interested in.
<Yagisan> still, compared to d-d, u-d has a higher signal to noise recently, especially after someones recent outburst
<ajmitch> heh
<TheMuso> outburst?
* TheMuso doesn't remember seeing an outburst
<Toadstool> er, falling asleep on my keyboard... 'night everybody
<ajmitch> which one?
<Yagisan> TheMuso: the secretary saw a legit id, that wasn't government issuesd and flipped out
<ajmitch> night Toadstool
<bddebian> Gnight ToadZzZztool
<Yagisan> night ToadZzZztool
<Yagisan> TheMuso: very much a non-issue, as you shouldn't sign a key if you don't feel the id, identifies the person in front of you
<TheMuso> um ok
* TheMuso now doesn't even know what list Yagisan is talking about. :)
* TheMuso ponders joining edgy changes.
<Yagisan> TheMuso: d-d
<TheMuso> oh ok
<TheMuso> I'm not on that. :)
<LaserJock> oh for goodness sakes, that is so dumb
<Yagisan> and yet, it appears to still be going. If it keeps up Edgy + 2 will beat Etch out the door
<Yagisan> hmm. why do users feel they can abuse developers about bugs ?
<LaserJock> ?
<imbrandon> becouse they are ignorant about the hard work often for free that they put into projects
<imbrandon> they == developers
<Yagisan> LaserJock: doing bug triage for my upstream project, and received a torrent of abuse for my efforts
<bddebian> Such is the nature unfortunately :-(
* StevenK is still pondering unsubing from debian-devel
<Yagisan> I understand why the other devs where happy for me to triage. They must be burnt out from that
<Yagisan> StevenK: come on, it's like neighbours, a new drama every day
<StevenK> Yagisan: Yes, the same drama that was on Home and Away a week ago.
<StevenK> I swear the writers for those two shows are the same people.
<Yagisan> StevenK: they are different shows ?!?
<Yagisan> StevenK: I can't tell them apart
<StevenK> The different actors give it away.
<Yagisan> StevenK: actors ? you must be joking. I've seen better acting in a toilet bowl.
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> Yagisan: you haven't seen shortland street over here then
<ajmitch> compared to that, both neighbours & H&A have superb acting
<Yagisan> ajmitch: sorry, the last show I saw from you guys was xena. the redhead was nice to look at, but that's about it
<ajmitch> heh
* sistpoty is off to bed... gn8 everyone
* Yagisan idly wonders if it is possible to rig tonights lotto draw so his numbers are drawn
<TheMuso> heh
<LaserJock> hmm, it's June, time to cat my irssi logs for May together :-)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> you split them by day?
<LaserJock> I do at first because I can often rememeber what day I want to look through if it is within a week
<LaserJock> so i'd rather grep through 1 day rather than a month or something
* ajmitch never bothered with fancy tricks like that
<LaserJock> I don't know, I'm just getting started with the whole irssi thing
* Yagisan never remembers, I usually forget the channel and have to grep the whole lot anyway
<LaserJock> well I don't have that many channels usually, I have 8 I autojoin
<Yagisan> I have 3 I'm usually in.
<Fujitsu> I have...
<LaserJock> really? crimsun has like 40 or something
* Fujitsu counts.
* ajmitch has 30 or so
<ajmitch> I haven't counted
<Fujitsu> Around 25, on various networks.
<Yagisan> I have 12 on my list, but I don't log in just to idle
<LaserJock> I can pretty much only do freenode because I can't use 6667
<crimsun> tehehe, poor bddebian ;-)
<bddebian> :-)
<ajmitch> we all love him, really
<bddebian> Who?
<ajmitch> bddebian
<bddebian> No you don't. :-)
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
<zul> Hey Hobbsee
* Hobbsee waves to LaserJock and zul 
* Hobbsee blows on her hands to try to warm them up
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Its not that cold.
<Hobbsee> tis here.
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee :-)
<TheMuso> Well you must have been outside recently.
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian
<ajmitch> siretart: I'm azaed at how quickly you got through the AM steps so that you can spend the next 6 months waiting for the FD & DAM ;)
<ajmitch> s/azaed/amazed/
<StevenK> Hah.
<StevenK> ajmitch: You haven't seen my NM page.
* ajmitch looks
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> not on the nmlist page
<StevenK> https://nm.debian.org/nmstatus.php?email=stevenk%40hasnolife.com
<ajmitch> looks like you took longer than siretart ;)
<ajmitch> of course he had to wait a long time to get an AM assigned, unlike you
<ajmitch> and DAM approval will take a little while
<StevenK> However, I was only in DAMnation for 2 days.
<ajmitch> that would be seen as miraculous these days
<StevenK> It was seen as miraculous then, too.
<ajmitch> you must have pulled some strings
<StevenK> Nope
<StevenK> It just happened.
<StevenK> I asked elmo about it, and he said, "Your advocate + your AM == fast track"
<ajmitch> it took me 6 months & 6 days from AM approval to DAM approval
<StevenK> I didn't even end up doing Task and Skills, since tbm asked joeyh about me, and joeyh said "He knows what he's doing" and tbm just went "Okay, I've approved you."
<ajmitch> right, joeyh & tbm..
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> impressive
<ajmitch> what work were you doing back then?
<StevenK> xringd, with joeyh sponsoring me
<ajmitch> impressive, you're still maintainer ;)
* StevenK nods.
<StevenK> I'm never giving up xringd. ;-)
<ajmitch> too easy to maintain to orphan it? :)
<StevenK> Indeed.
<StevenK> The only bugs I get are translations.
<ajmitch> should I do an f-spot upload to sid today?
<StevenK> Meh, why not. Edgy isn't open yet. :-)
<ajmitch> it needs rebuilt anyway
* StevenK is looking forward to doing syncs again.
<ajmitch> hm, I should fix up my sid chroot so I can connect to the X server properly
<ajmitch> bind-mounting /tmp only gives me access to the socket
<ajmitch> I still have to be naughty & do xhost +
<ajmitch> maybe hardlinking stuff would help
* ajmitch waits
<ajmitch> someone by me a faster system :)
<ajmitch> (and a better keyboard)
* chillywilly stuffs some dollars into ajmitch's g-string
<chillywilly> dance boy! dance! ;)
<LaserJock> ewwwww
<chillywilly> lol
<chillywilly> he can earn a faster system ;)
<LaserJock> chillywilly: you sure about that? ;-)
<ajmitch> chillywilly: don't even think of suggesting that
<ajmitch> you are sick
<Lathiat> hahaha
<StevenK> ajmitch: I bind mount /tmp and /home
<chillywilly> ajmitch: you know I am joking :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: That seems to work.
<ajmitch> yeah, I thought about bind-mounting /home as well
<chillywilly> bddebian would appreciate my humor....
<chillywilly> where is that old man anyway?
<ajmitch> bddebian is also sick
<StevenK> I'm waiting for schroot, I'm sick of having all these bind mounts sticking around all the time.
<StevenK> Hrm.
<StevenK> It seems to be in Dapper.
* StevenK sighs at usplash_fifo some more.
<StevenK> It really messes up my completion of /usr.
<ajmitch> hehe
* Lathiat mdoesnt see a usplash_fifo
<ajmitch> sigh, cdbs
* ajmitch kicks cdbs a few times 
<StevenK> prw-r----- 1 root root 0 2006-06-02 22:32 /usplash_fifo
<StevenK> Also exists on my laptop.
<Lathiat> not for me
<ajmitch> you're spethial though
<StevenK> Lathiat or me? :-P
* ajmitch doesn't have it on the laptop
<ajmitch> StevenK: you're the only person lucky enough
<StevenK> Curious.
<ajmitch> though I haven't rebooted my machines for a few weeks
<ajmitch> yay, got rid of a few lintian warnings
<StevenK> I rebooted right after my upgrade to Dapper.
* StevenK goes shopping. Again.
<ajmitch> ok, f-spot seems to work
<ajmitch> might as well upload :)
<ajmitch> whiprush_: interesting blog post about sabayon/pessulus & network auth
<whiprush_> ajmitch: yeah ... one gets lucid when deloying gnome/linux desktops along side windows desktops.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> there are some weird & wonderful things we could do for ubuntu
<whiprush_> yeah
<whiprush_> IMO, the user-level stuff is there.
<whiprush_> it's the system level stuff that's kind of lacking.
<ajmitch> how much do you think we can whack in as a distro?
<nomed> hi all
<ajmitch> hi
<nomed> ajmitch, any idea when it's possible to start pkging for edjy ?
<ajmitch> whenever you want
<nomed> good!
<nomed> and could anyone take a look to xapian and libtextcat pkges ?
<siretart> morning
<siretart> ajmitch: I'm amazed as well. I got my AM last monday
<Tonio_> hello all :)
<ajmitch> morning siretart :)
<ajmitch> hi Tonio_
<Tonio_> hey ajmitch
<AnAnt> is there a certain reason that there aren't kernel images specifically for Pentium M ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> it dosent need any?
<Lathiat> because theres no reason to generate them?
<tseng> a pentium m is a 686
<tseng> you dont need 600 kernel images
<AnAnt> tseng: I found a Pentium M in the kernel configuration
<tseng> congratulations
<AnAnt> tseng: doesn't that add any features for the Pentium M systems ?
<tseng> no, it changes the compiler flags
<AnAnt> ic
<tseng> to optimize to the pentium m instruction set
<AnAnt> thx
<tseng> which makes it unusable anywhere else
<tseng> we have enough images to test as it is
<tseng> and there isnt a substantial benefit
<AnAnt> ic
<AnAnt> ok, now, I the reason I am recompiling the kernel is that I am applying a patch for MMC v4 device support , if that works, shall I upload the new source/patch somewhere in MOTU or so ?
<tseng> I don't know what that is
<tseng> but no
<tseng> you can try to get it in edgy, #ubuntu-kernel
<AnAnt> ok
<dannz> can anyone tell me how big the ubuntu dapper repo is?
<Toadstool> heya MOTUs
<Hobbsee> hey Toadstool
<Toadstool> heya Hobbsee
* StevenK waves.
<sladen> StevenK: there's a but about that.  It happens if usplash is started and the chdir() fails.  There's a bug about it;  can you please confirm it
<Hobbsee> heya StevenK
* Hobbsee pokes StevenK with a stick, before she gets jumped on.
<StevenK> sladen: Certainly.
* StevenK waves to Hobbsee.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Sorry, playing with schroot.
<Hobbsee> :P
<StevenK> sladen: It is already Confirmed.
<StevenK> And Keybuk has replied, so it should hopefully get fixed.
<sladen> StevenK: can you please add that you have experienced it aswell
<sladen> StevenK: the number of duplicates/comments is what I use as a measure of which bugs to focus on
<StevenK> sladen: Done.
<AnAnt> I compiled the linux kernel (which I got from the repos), but I don't get splash screen, why is that ? btw, I compiled using make-kpkg & installed the resulting *.deb files
<AnAnt> I compiled the linux kernel (which I got from the repos), but I don't get splash screen, why is that ? btw, I compiled using make-kpkg & installed the resulting *.deb files using dpkg. I also ran update-initramfs -u
<Toadstool> AnAnt: this is the kind of questions you should ask on #ubuntu instead of here
<AnAnt> none knows answer there
<AnAnt> besides someone here told me to do the update-initramfs
<AnAnt> but that didn't work either
<Toadstool> I'm sure somebody knows but you have to wait for him to read the question ;)
<AnAnt> k
<shawarma> AnAnt: Which bootloader are you using?
<AnAnt> grub
<shawarma> Ok. Does the relevant entry have "splash" in the command line?
<AnAnt> shawarma: yup , it has ro queit splash vga=0x314 just like the old kernels
<shawarma> AnAnt: Ok.
<StevenK> Hum.
<StevenK> My screensaver didn't lock for some reason.
<StevenK> Scrap that, my screensaver didn't activate at all.
<shawarma> AnAnt: Do you know how to unpack your initrd ?
<zakame> hi all
<AnAnt> shawarma: you mean install ?
<shawarma> AnAnt: No.
<shawarma> AnAnt: Unpack it to examine the contents.
<AnAnt> hmm
<shawarma> AnAnt: Like so:
<AnAnt> cpio
<shawarma> AnAnt: mkdir /tmp/initrd ; cd /tmp/initrd ; zcat /boot/initrd-whatever | cpio -i
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> did so
<AnAnt> so ?
<shawarma> Great. Check if /tmp/initrd/scripts/init-top/usplash is there.
<\sh> moins
<shawarma> Hi \hs!
<shawarma> Eh...
<shawarma> \sh, even. :-)
<AnAnt> yup it does exist there
<\sh> hey shawarma...
<shawarma> AnAnt: And so is /tmp/initrd/sbin/usplash I suppose..
<AnAnt> yup
<shawarma> Hmm... tough one.
<AnAnt> hmmm
<AnAnt> I think I found it
<AnAnt> in the conf/modules file
<AnAnt> I see filenames of things that were on my homedir !!!!
<AnAnt> why's that ?
<shawarma> Good question. It's generated by mkinitramfs.
<AnAnt> aha, so ?
<shawarma> It shouldn't matter that much, though.
<shawarma> As long as vesafb is in there, you should be fine.
<AnAnt> it isn't there
<AnAnt> only files that were in my home dir
<zakame> heya \sh!
<AnAnt> what does my homedir have to do with initramfs ?!
<AnAnt> anyways, how can I fix that ?
<shawarma> AnAnt: I'm not sure yet. gimme a sec.
<shawarma> AnAnt: Have you tried update-initramfs -c ?
<AnAnt> shawarma: yup
<AnAnt> what does that do anyways ?
<shawarma> AnAnt: Creates a new one insted of updating an old one.
<shawarma> ....and that didnt helt?
<AnAnt> nope
<AnAnt> shawarma: when should I do the update-initramfs ? after I boot in new kernel or while I am still on old kernel ?
<AnAnt> wait I did update-initramfs -u not -c
<shawarma> AnAnt: Well, if you don't tell it which kernel to work on, it'll assume the currently running one.
<AnAnt> ok I just ran : update-initramfs -k 2.6.15.7-ubuntu1.mmc4-686m -c , and it didn't work
<shawarma> What do you mean? it failed or it didn't helt?
<shawarma> help..
<AnAnt> it didn't help
<shawarma> Ok.
<AnAnt> what I realized is that mkinitramfs put the filenames that are in the current directory in that conf/modules file
<shawarma> You havent' touched anything /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf right?
<AnAnt> dunno why
<AnAnt> nope
<AnAnt> I don't have that dir either
<AnAnt> I get /etc/mkinitramfs/initramfs.conf
<AnAnt> I got /etc/mkinitramfs/initramfs.conf
<shawarma> Er.. Yeah, that's what I meant. :-)
<AnAnt> shawarma: ok, I put vesafb in /etc/mkinitramfs/modules file
<AnAnt> shawarma: and ran update-initramfs
<AnAnt> now it contains the modules I put in /etc/mkinitramfs/modules file alright, but it also contains the filenames that were in the current directory
<AnAnt> I don't understand this wierd behaviour !
<shawarma> No, it sounds pretty weird.
<shawarma> You run update-initramfs -u right?
<AnAnt> nope, -c
<shawarma> Ok. Ill just try it here.
<AnAnt> shall I try a -u ?
<shawarma> AnAnt: Hang on for a sec.
<shawarma> AnAnt: I just ran it and it looks just right.
<AnAnt>  hmmm
<AnAnt> is it a problem to have such extra stuff ?
<shawarma> Not really.
<AnAnt> I'll give it a reboot & see
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gloubiboulga> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<tuxmaniac> heya. Any probs with OO.o ? Seems like it is not properly quitting.. Taking a long time to come up and swallows a helluva lot of RAM
<_ion> That sounds just like the normal OOo behavior. :-)
<tuxmaniac> _ion: heh
<Bazzi> hmm
<Bazzi> lots of those issues have been fixed in 2.0.2 though
<tuxmaniac> I have the latest Dapper updates.. Still so many issues..
<tuxmaniac> Bazzi: is that a thing that is being looked into already?
<Bazzi> yes
<Bazzi> they try to improve in that area constantly
<Bazzi> since there are LOTS of issues still to be resolved
<tuxmaniac> 1.9 was far better.. I feel
<Bazzi> I still use MS Office :(
<\sh> re
<lastnode> can anyone tell me why ubuntu doesnt have a cube package yet?
<\sh> what is cube?
<lastnode> http://www.cubeengine.com/
<lastnode> the source is right there - http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/cube/cube_2005_08_29_src.zip?download
<lastnode> if anyone is interested, id be happy to package it or whatever
<lastnode> i just played it, and it's fantastic
<lastnode> played online, even from sri lanka
<lastnode> that's a first
<lastnode> :)
<Bazzi> sadly ubuntu has close to nothing gaming relatesd
<crimsun> "close to nothing"? That's a bit of a stretch, isn't it?
<crimsun> True, only a few, but that's hardly /nothing/
<Bazzi> well, I haven't seen anything useful :(
<lastnode> crimsun, i think he means 'gaming' as opposed to "oh look, it's gnome-tetris' ;-)
<lastnode> but seriously, who do i need to talk to about this?
<Bazzi> yes, I mean 3d-gaming let's put it this way
<\sh> it's not really OSS
<lastnode> \sh, the source is available for download?
<lastnode> i admit i havent seen the license though
* lastnode goes to check
<\sh> it looks like only the source is free as in ZLIB license but artwork can't be freely distributed by others....
<\sh> actually it's a bit strange, sauerbraten (the sequel) is zlib license licensed but not the artwork..
<\sh> and for cube I don't see a license at all
<crimsun> "you may freely distribute the cube archive unmodified on any media" <----
<crimsun> note the unmodified
<\sh> oh no...same zlib thing
<Bazzi> crimsun: would still be a candidate for a msttcorefonts-like package wouldn't it?
<theCore> well, if it's on Sourceforge it must have a valid open-source licence
<crimsun> Bazzi: certainly you can write a wrapper that will download it
<\sh> theCore: the source is zlib license, which is sf.net approved, but I don't see any maps or whatever...
<\sh> it could also be, that i'm a tetris player and don't need any shooters
<lastnode> would anyone be willing to work with me on this?
<OVErcLK> hi
<jpatrick> ajmitch: are you there?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> if you have a question, ask it
<jpatrick> can you update pbuilder on revu?
<\sh> ajmitch: pbuilder update on tiber ;)
* ajmitch waits for it to update
<ajmitch> I can't help you if you want it updated to edgy...
<ajmitch> updated for dapper
<NthDegree> does anyone know if SElinux supports JFS?
<ajmitch> assuming that JFS supports extended attributes & security labels, then yes
<tseng> i think it does as of a year or so ago
<tseng> possibly by patch
<ajmitch> looks to be enabled in the ubuntu kernel
<NthDegree> i'm just wondering if it's worth using JFS
<NthDegree> or if i'll need god knows how many partitions in order to use it optimally
<ajmitch> a recent thread on the selinux list recommended either XFS or ext3
<ajmitch> however there are people using it on JFS
<NthDegree> ideally I want kubuntu as my main OS with xubuntu (or a specially modified form of ubuntu) for development
<ajmitch> be aware that there's minimal selinux support in dapper
<NthDegree> true
<NthDegree> i want to help change that :) so red hat doesn't brag so much
<NthDegree> what FS would you choose?
<ajmitch> ext3, or maybe xfs
<\sh> ext3 for small paritions, xfs for large ones
<\sh> 73GB partition and formatting it with ext3 on a raid6 volume: 2 minutes
<\sh> 6.3TB partition on raid 6 volume formated with XFS: less then 3 seconds
<\sh> no joke
<NthDegree> well I have a single 225GB hard disk, and want optimal performance on kubuntu
<NthDegree> so how would I go splitting it all up? and what FSes to use?
<\sh> NthDegree: /boot == ext2 / and /home and /var can be xfs..it's fast and reliable
<\sh> anyways...I'm stopping now and watching some movies :)
<_ion> Unless your hardware causes the computer to crash occassionally.
<ogra> \sh, slacker ...
<\sh> ogra: hehe
<ogra> :)
<NthDegree> so how to split up my space?
<\sh> ogra: you don't have to fight against suse ;)
<ogra> i dont even see her very much anymore
<\sh> ogra: oh no..I meant SuSE
<\sh> not your suse
<ogra> ah
<ogra> capitalization was missing :)
<\sh> yes sorry
<zul> bah..
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> NthDegree: depends on what you want
<\sh> NthDegree: server, workstation, playstation?
<NthDegree> for kubuntu I want a workstation, for xubuntu it will be development but one single partition
<\sh> NthDegree: you need just one installation...and install xubuntu-desktop on your kubuntu system..
<NthDegree> \sh you sure? I just don't want to clutter up my system when I learn how to make good reliable packages
<NthDegree> if there's no problem with one installation then kubuntu on it's own will do brilliantly
<ajmitch> wow
<ajmitch> my package got ACCEPTED into debian
<_ion> What should i do in order to get my Picard package <http://hassers.fi/ubuntu/dists/dapper/> to Edgy universe?
<ajmitch> only 1 month in NEW!
<\sh> NthDegree: good realiable packages you do with pbuilder and debootstrap and not on your running system
<zul> ajmitch: new record?
<ajmitch> zul: NEW processing has been a little slow lately :)
<zul> ah..
<NthDegree> so a multiboot would be best then \sh?
<Gloubiboulga> _ion, upload your package on REVU, motus will looke at it, and when it's OK and advocated twice, it'll be uploaded to Universe
<\sh> NthDegree: no...you don't need multiboot...
<\sh> NthDegree: you can test in a chroot
<_ion> gloubiboulga: Thanks.
<ajmitch> I have 1 RC bug in debian though (non-free docs)
<Gloubiboulga> _ion, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU will help you
<\sh> NthDegree: so I would think that /boot == 100MB ext2 , / == 20GB xfs , /var == 20 GB xfs, swap partition the double ammount of your RAM and the rest /home with xfs
<NthDegree> \sh you like your xfs don't you :)
<ajmitch> you said you wanted performance
<ajmitch> ext3 is slow in the default journalling mode
<\sh> NthDegree: it's faster then ext3, more reliable then ext2/ext3 and reiserfs, and needs less memory then jfs
<ajmitch> depending on how much RAM you have, double that in swap may not be needed
<\sh> ajmitch: right...16GB ram, you don't need swap, or you want to use suspend to ram ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: actually I did set it up with 16GB RAM + 16GB swap ;)
<\sh> or hibante
<NthDegree> well I have 1024MB RAM and an AMD athlon 64
<\sh> hibernate
<\sh> NthDegree: set 2gb swap
<ajmitch> right, with only 1GB RAM, you'll need swap
<\sh> you have enough diskspace
* _ion hopes edgy doesn't create a swap partition at all by default, and it uses swap files allocated on-demand.
<\sh> ajmitch: but actually you are not normal ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: neither am I ;)
<ajmitch> I know I'm not normal :)
<theCore> what is the normal procedure for importing a packages from Debian to Ubuntu?
<\sh> a sync
<\sh> ok..going to rest a bit...laters friends
<theCore> a sync?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> which will start automatically once edgy opens
<theCore> how I do that?
<theCore> oh
<ajmitch> for packages that we haven't modified
<theCore> so, we don't need to do anything about them?
<ajmitch> nope
<theCore> that is nice
<ajmitch> however if we've made any changes in ubuntu in a package, we need to merge them
* bmonty is glad that auto syncing will resume soon :)
<ajmitch> bmonty!
<bmonty> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> how are you?
<bmonty> good, you?
<ajmitch> alright :)
<ajmitch> I should sleep more, really
<bmonty> I'm playing with my new hardware :)
<ajmitch> but it's almost too late by now
<ajmitch> oh shut up :P
<theCore> ajmitch: ah, that what is sync and merge mean, thanks for the info
* ajmitch only has old, slow hardware to put up with ;)
<theCore> ajmitch: I better clarify it in the Packaging Guide
<bmonty> I'm impressed the volume and web buttons on this keyboard work out of the box with dapper :)
<ajmitch>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
<ajmitch> Mem:         16230       1996      14233          0        248       1508
<ajmitch> -/+ buffers/cache:        239      15991
<ajmitch> & that box is running dapper :)
<theCore> ajmitch: o_O, without gui, I hope
<ajmitch> theCore: why do you hope that?
* ajmitch thinks it could probably handle a gui fairly well, apart from the lack of graphics hardware
<theCore> ajmitch: ah, you got me
<ajmitch> I should put the nx server on it & run gnome from home
<ajmitch> argh
<ajmitch> server at work went down again
<ajmitch> we thought those hardware troubles were over...
<theCore> I made a pretty nice emacs CVS package, anyone interested?
<Erlang> isn't that already in Debian/Ubuntu as emacs-snapshot?
<theCore> Erlang: well, mine has Xfont & Unicode support
<Erlang> ok
<Erlang> I don't think I need that.
<theCore> *sigh* I think I'm the only one running gtk-emacs
<Erlang> I don't like GTK...
<Erlang> so there
<theCore> Erlang: what do you like? CLI, Qt?
<Erlang> Qt
<Erlang> I'm a KDE guy.
<theCore> is it hard to make a apt repository server?
<ajmitch> nope
* ajmitch trawls forums for misplaced bugreports
<ajmitch> theCore: see apt-ftparchive
<Erlang> I use mini-dinstall myself.
<bmonty> brb
<theCore> ajmitch: is it a reason why apt-ftparchive isn't into the repository?
<theCore> Erlang: thanks, that is what I was searching for
<crimsun> theCore: it is. It's in apt-utils.
<theCore> crimsun: oh, I see, thanks
<_ion> thecore: apt-file is handy: luotain% apt-file search apt-ftparchive
<_ion> apt-utils: usr/bin/apt-ftparchive
<theCore> _ion: thanks, my intuition tell me that utility will become really handy soon
<bmonty> what is the package that adds a terminal option to the menu when you right click on the main screen?
<ajmitch> nautilus-open-terminal?
<bmonty> yes, thanks!
<theCore> why dpkg-buildpackage need to be run by root (or fakeroot)
<crimsun> note the install paths of the files in debs.
<ajmitch> and to be able to set ownership to something other than the user it is running as
<theCore> ajmitch: ah, that makes more sense
<theCore> is there big capatibility issues between Ubuntu and Debian?
<tseng> what do you mean by capability
<tseng> is the word you are looking for "compatibility"?
<tuxmaniac> tseng: thats understood :-)
<tseng> they mean completely different things.
<theCore> compatibility*
<tseng> no, there are not issues
<tseng> almost everything will work with a simple rebuild
<tseng> if even that is nessecary
<tseng> I recommend it
* plugwash just wishes that someone with permission to do so would upload some freepascal binaries
<theCore> tseng: so, Debian packages works without any changes on Ubuntu, and vis versa?
<tseng> almost always
<_ion> thecore: The source packages pretty much do.
<tseng> a few things not
<plugwash> theCore the pacakge format is the same but sometimes rebuilding is nessacery due to dependency issues
<theCore> tseng: which?
<tseng> I dont know?
<tseng> we change a handful of things
<tseng> I cant say whether your package is changed or not
<tseng> since you didnt mention what it is
<plugwash> in particular debian/ubuntu use a dependency scanning system that means packages don't tend to install on systems older than the one they were built on
<tseng> chances are a rebuild is plenty
<bmonty> theCore: you could also have wierd problems since there might be different libs or compilers between debian and ubuntu
<bmonty> rebuilds will usually fix that
<theCore> so there's no problem adding a source repository from Debian on a Ubuntu system?
<crimsun> theCore: the ones in Debian that most likely won't are the ones in /current/ unstable and experimental
<crimsun> theCore: meaning more recently versioned build-dependencies
<bmonty> anyone know how to list the bus ids for pci express?
<theCore> ok, thanks all
<spacey> http://warsow.net <- something for universe?:)
<\sh> where is the source?
<Gazer> holas
<Gazer> sorry :P
<\sh> spacey: this game needs java, and doesn't work on dapper somehow...at least not on this laptop ;)
<spacey> ok :p
<spacey> i don't play games myself
<spacey> but i thought it looked interesting
<spacey> they said it was based on the quake2 gpl engine
<spacey> apparently its not free software
<\sh> spacey: it has a gnu license shiped ;) because they use SDL
<\sh> but I don't find the source, or is it the SDK?
<spacey> no idea
<_ion> The game seems very nice. I hope it really is open source. I skimmed through the file list of the SDK archive, it _might_ contain the whole source for the game.
<_ion> I think they have to publish the source because it's based on the q2 engine.
<\sh> _ion: try to build it ;)
<_ion> sh: Right now i'm too tired, but i'll probably try tomorrow.
<_ion> I'm about to go to sleep.
<\sh> _ion: hehe :) I can understand that....I will go to bed just now too
<spacey> also important how the artwork is licensed. it doesn't have to be free because of the engine
<spacey> afaik
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-04
<sladen> spacey: interesting.  a 64MB download
<sladen> the data can go in multiverse
<sladen> which probably means having to put the engine in there aswell since I think there's a policy against free software where the only (current) way to use it is relying on non-free data files
<spacey> yeh
<spacey> goodnight
<sladen> nice.  the source-code you can download doesn't match the binary you can download
<sladen> *sigh*
<\sh> sladen: this warbla thing?
<sladen> warsow
<sladen> neither does the binary download come with a "written offer" of where to download the source code
<sladen> but then you ask and find that it's inside "the SDK"
<\sh> oh joy
<sladen> and then find that the source code in there doesn't contain the code to print the error that the binary is giving you...
<\sh> sladen: so it doesn't work for you, too?
<Erlang> well, that sure seems like a fun game
<sladen> \sh: Error: R_Upload32_3D: texture (***r_dlighttexture***) is too large   ?
<sladen> this URL:  http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=54650&sid=d484e44d62144e8a5e208659376ca7bf
<sladen> includes the fix
<sladen> but it's a bit hard to apply that when the context and the code is *completely missing*
<\sh> sladen: yes
<bmonty> nice, I just found a site that makes it so you can create vmware images with the player
<LaserJock> bmonty: you can also use qemu
<bmonty> LaserJock: yeah, I'm going to try both and see which I like better
<bmonty> bbl
<jabra> trying to install a debootstrap of debian
<jabra> getting an error while doing the install
<sladen> bmonty: qemu-img ?
<sladen> bmonty: hint hint
<plugwash> jabra and the error is?
<plugwash> jabra try using cdebootstrap instead, its generally better at installing suites that are newer than the version of debootstrap
<LaserJock> debootstrap should work fine though
<Erlang> debootstrap can't bootstrap a 32 bit system on a 64 bit machine.  That suck.
<LaserJock> ?
<LaserJock> why not?
<Erlang> because whenever you specify --arch=i386 it crashes unless has been done in the last week that I don't know about.
<LaserJock> hmm, I didn't know that
<Erlang> cdebootstrap works fine thought but it's only for Debian distro.
<LaserJock> I don't have a 64-bit so I've never tried it but I know it worked in the past
<plugwash> cdebootstrap debian and upgrade to ubuntu?
<LaserJock> darn it, bzr isn't working :(
<sladen> Erlang: can you file a bug pelase
<Erlang> sladen: IMHO it's been filed in Debian for a while but I'll double check.
<jabra> plugwash: thanks
<jabra> will do
<jabra> let you know how that goes
<jabra> got an error
<jabra> Couldn't install root!
<jabra> ran the following
<jabra> root # cdebootstrap sid /media/usbdisk-3/sid-root http://ftp.debian.org/debian
<plugwash> what happens if you leave off the last parameter?
<jabra> which is ? --arch i386?
<sladen> Erlang: if it's happening in Ubuntu, file it in Ubuntu and link to the upstream bug report
<jabra> retrying without the url
<Erlang> sladen: working on that...
<Erlang> or maybe the problem comes from pbuider.
<Erlang> darn it's working now.
<jabra> problem persists with cdebootstrap
<jabra> E: Couldn't install root!
<Erlang> sladen: in retrospect, it was a weird glitch with command line parsing in pbuilder.
<jabra> persists with sarge as well as sid
<crimsun> go bddebian, go! :)
<tseng> @seen Yagisan
<tseng> !seen Yagisan
<bddebian> Heya tseng
<tseng> Ubugtu: you are lame.
<tseng> hi bddebian
<bddebian> heh
<tseng> bddebian: :<
<bddebian> Aye
<bluefoxicy> hey tseng
<bluefoxicy> as far as devs go, what is the potential for a hardening team on Ubuntu?
<tseng> Yagisan
<tseng> is the man
<bluefoxicy> I get the feeling nobody cares, mainly because the last group seems to have milled around and then you know... died
<bluefoxicy> ah ok
<tseng> if you like to talk
<bluefoxicy> trulux just sort of moved to fedora
<tseng> you and trulux can talk yourselves to death
<bddebian> bluefoxicy: You may want to ... nevermind :-)
<bluefoxicy> and the rest of them... like.... are wandering around like "the sky is blue~"
<tseng> Yagisan is actually making forward progress
<tseng> and
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  hey at least I am able to talk in understandable english; although trulux is able to actually make things happen with selinux et al.
<tseng> the CTO of canonical has SSP and NX on his hot list of features for edgy
<bluefoxicy> ah
<tseng> bluefoxicy: I respectfully disagree
<bluefoxicy> tseng I wrote out a specification based on the UDU ProactiveSecurityRoadmap for a first step
<tseng> Yagisan and I were involved in that
<tseng> and ajmitch
<bluefoxicy> there is FAR too much to do at once, so I wrote a spec that focuses on aslr, memory protections, PIE, and SSP
<bluefoxicy> I saw
<tseng> SSP would be a really nice first step
<bluefoxicy> as far as I know the only progress that was made was getting dhclient3 and a few other daemons to behave wrt priv sep
<bluefoxicy> yes
<tseng> oh, most daemons in the default install are de-rooted now
<tseng> its a good thing
<bmonty> SSP = ?
<bluefoxicy> I like SSP, but you can make no real guarantees on its effectiveness that I can see; then again, that analysis is rather fuzzy
<tseng> the other things are pretty intrusive
<tseng> ssp combined with aslr is pretty strong if you ask me
<bluefoxicy> bmonty stack smash protection, FORTIFY_SOURCE and -fstack-protector
<tseng> with nx, very strong
<bmonty> bluefoxicy: thanks
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  ASLR I say needs PIE AND heap randomization AND enforced non-executable memory to be considered effective.
<tseng> bmonty: it adds a known random value to the end of a buffer and checks it after each write
<tseng> bmonty: to detect under/overflow
<tseng> if its triggered it kills the app immediately
<tseng> before privelage escalation or whatever was the intended goal
<bmonty> tseng: interesting, I think I remember reading about it once
<bmonty> it is part of gcc already, right?
<tseng> yes.
<bluefoxicy> without PIE a crafty attacker can likely build a stack frame in the heap (which isn't randomized right now) and then return to the main executable (also not randomized) at an address where 'call' calls an interesting function (system()?)
<tseng> bluefoxicy: that is nice, in theory
<bddebian> Ohh
<bmonty> wasn't there some negative performance issues associated with SSP?
<bluefoxicy> PIE moves the main executable around with mmap(); heap randomization is separately implemented, but more effective on a PIE
<tseng> in the real world, "crafty hackers" don't attack single systems
* bddebian just read Eugina's stuff
<tseng> ssp is enough to stop your usual scripted botnet attacks
<tseng> and canned scriptkiddie stuff
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  A worm could be adapted
<tseng> real hackers dont go after bluefox.net
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  my current "classical attack case" is gaim, because it has an executable stack even on AMD64 and someone can remotely forcefeed you an attack whenever you're online.
<tseng> bluefoxicy: it would be hard, and its a small target audience
<tseng> its all theory
<tseng> not a real threat
<bluefoxicy> I do not care about target audience size.
<tseng> it would be nice to have
<tseng> but not a phase one goal
<bluefoxicy> My concern is the theoretical "Ubuntu has 98% of the market share"
<tseng> you cant just roll hardened gentoo into ubuntu
<bluefoxicy> I am aware.
<tseng> we know what a bitch it was to use
<bluefoxicy> it wasn't that hard to use
<tseng> it took us a year to get Xorg to do anything useful
<bluefoxicy> yeah that.
<tseng> and you have to mark java, mono, joeuserapp
<bluefoxicy> what was hard about hardened gentoo was that the maintainers had to handle the breakage
<bluefoxicy> you guys were the one telling X not to pie; and telling SSP not to apply to certain binaries
<bluefoxicy> also tseng
<bluefoxicy> PaX-style protections can be done via SELinux policy using the execstack, execheap, execmem, and execmod permissions
<bluefoxicy> (so says pebenito; Fedora Core 5 somehow does it, it breaks metacity now)
<tseng> thats nice
<tseng> just adds another level to deal with
<tseng> and break things
<bluefoxicy> I'm aware.
<zul> so anyways
<tseng> I am thinking small
<bluefoxicy> However, it would be easy enough to tell the SELinux policy to not mess with any given binary
<tseng> SSP and NX
<tseng> ASLR is pretty safe if you ask me
<bluefoxicy> remember Exec Shield type NX gives no guarantees.
<bluefoxicy> it's nice in theory, in practice you have a NX stack most of the time
<bluefoxicy> but in practice you can never really make long-term predictions about if you're keeping that stack NX
<bluefoxicy> and in practice, only the stack is ever NX
<bluefoxicy> That being said, you do get something for free almost all of the time
<tseng> and it almost always works
<bluefoxicy> 'Almost always' works, yes
<bluefoxicy> it just doesn't work for when you want to make hard-line security guarantees
<bluefoxicy> (not that you ever can really give a "guarantee," we're talking about the Holding problem after all...)
<tseng> yes we have seen PaX beaten in the last 2 years also
<bluefoxicy> like I said, Holding problem
<bluefoxicy> and PaX broke due to implementation bugs
<bluefoxicy> of course it maintained the guarantee that the breakage has to be at kernel level, which nobody ever claimed to be absolutely protecting.
<tseng> I know all of this, btw
<bluefoxicy> yes I know
<tseng> :)
<bluefoxicy> oh tseng
<bluefoxicy> I wrote a patch, not entirely complete but all of the code is there, that lets you adjust entropy in the kernel for mmap() and stack
<bluefoxicy> the infrastructure is flexible, I used it to implement control over randomization levels of the stack and mmap() base via a kernel boot parameter
<bluefoxicy> however, it's easy enough to make it do per-architecture entropy levels (i.e. 43 bits s/m for x86-64 and 19/8 bits s/m for IA-32) and also drop in SELinux hooks to control entropy levels fine-grained.
<bluefoxicy> I have not found a way to convince mainline to eat it yet.
<bluefoxicy> I am sure posting the first incomplete, hackish, ugly ass version didn't help.
<bluefoxicy> I should remove the command line stuff and just make it per-architecture randomization
<bluefoxicy> there is a paper that someone wrote that I can use to justify it, about brute forcing weak ASLR
<bluefoxicy> PaX ASLR is considered "weak" in this context
<tseng> like I said before
<tseng> conceptually weak is alot better than not at all
<bluefoxicy> I know
<bmonty> bddebian: you are a vi hater?  I never would have guessed, :)
<bddebian> Heh, I"m not a vi hater.  I hate emacs more ;-P
<bmonty> well there, you and I agree!
<bmonty> I'm hooked on vim and gvim
<zul> bddebian: let me guess you use pico right? :)
<jsgotangco> nano!
<zul> same thing basically
<bddebian> nano baby :-)
<bddebian> Actually emacs can do some very cool shit, it just gets carried away :-)
* bmonty is getting very upset with evolution
* jsgotangco uses emacs for planner-el and gnus
<crimsun> <3 vimdiff -g
<zul> bddebian: why am i not surprised :)
<bddebian> zul: 'cause you don't love me either? :-)
<zul> bddebian: ding ding ding :)
* StevenK glares at his screensaver.
<StevenK> I have this feeling mplayer does it.
<StevenK> Looks like I'm wrong.
<bddebian> Bah, why am I even here..
<bmonty> bddebian: cause you love the company of MOTUs?
<bddebian> Yeah, I guess that's it :-)
<bmonty> ...or did you beat all your video games? :P
<bddebian> Nah, I could play Morrowind for centuries I think.  Sheesh that game is HUGE :-)
<crimsun> our resident deity has to pass the time while his ponies arrive
<bmonty> ponies?
<crimsun> yeah, that's the basis of all the "omgponies" rage lately
<crimsun> (thanks, barry! ;-)
<bmonty> I guess I missed the ponies...damn
<bmonty> oh well, time to go to bed....good night everyone
<crimsun> 'night
<bddebian> gnight bmonty
* StevenK manages to ignore the Java crap on the AFL website, and get the streaming audio of the match going on now.
<Erlang> anyone got a clue has to why 'moc' calls would be removed of a KDE application makefile after running automake
<Erlang> nvm found it
<mooseman089> how do you update the repo list in synaptic?
<bddebian> mooseman089: System->Administration->Software Properties?
<mooseman089> but where do you find new repos to add to the list?
<Erlang> why new repos?
<bddebian> Hmm, I always add them by hand
<mooseman089> i dont know i thought they changed often or something
<Erlang> the repos URL won't change AFAIK.
<mooseman089> lol ok
* StevenK collapses from the nail-biting AFL match that just finished.
<Hobbsee> hey StevenK
<Hobbsee> there was afl on?  there you go :P
* Hobbsee revives StevenK again
<Hobbsee> hey tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> hey Hobbsee ..
<tuxmaniac> morning all
* StevenK is listening to the streaming audio of the match.
<magnal> why don't i find kynaptic in any repo anymore?
<BlueT_> moin :3
<magnal> BlueT_: what is moin?
<BlueT_> magnal: moin means morning in some language :)
<magnal> i thought that was an answer to my question
<magnal> what is liblua?
<freeflying|away> magnal:  it's ksynaptics not kynaptic
<magnal> freeflying|away: i am talking about kynaptic, the kde equivalent of synaptic
<magnal> freeflying|away: ksynaptics seems to be something else
<magnal> freeflying|away: it used to be there in breezy and it seems dapper includes it nowhere and i wonder why
<freeflying|away> magnal: we ship with adept defautly
<magnal> freeflying|away: adept is not far as smart as synaptic
<magnal> freeflying|away: i don't even understand why it is default
<freeflying|away> magnal:  I don't think so
<magnal> freeflying|away: ok, i know there are many things that adept doesn't have and synaptic has. now, is there *anything* at all that adept supports and synaptic does not?
<BlueT_> freeflying|away: yo :p
<freeflying|away> magnal: can you show me any examples
<magnal> freeflying|away: adept doesn't support "complete" removal
<freeflying|away> that's true
<magnal> freeflying|away: now please show me something that adept supports and synaptic does not
<Hobbsee> magnal: actually, the latest version has a "purge" button - not sure if that's the repo version though
<magnal> freeflying|away: i really am willing to accept it that adept is better or at least as good as synaptic
<magnal> freeflying|away: in fact, i wish adept were better, because i like the way it looks
<Hobbsee> magnal: do you code at all?
<freeflying|away> magnal: :)
<magnal> Hobbsee: so do you think adept is just as good as synaptic?
<magnal> Hobbsee: why asking if i code? :)
<Hobbsee> magnal: no, well...no...neither is as good as apt-get/aptitude.
<Hobbsee> magnal: so that you could add to it, if you wish.
<magnal> Hobbsee: yes, i love aptitude
<magnal> Hobbsee: i was only comparing synaptic to adept
<magnal> Hobbsee: any idea what liblua50 is?
<Hobbsee> magnal: only a very vague one  - use apt-cache search.
<magnal> Hobbsee: it's weird that it looks like a vital dep in the recent dapper updates but.. it is not at all included in the original live (desktop) cd!
<magnal> Hobbsee: i simply don't understand how this can happen
<magnal> freeflying|away: does adept show a console on installation?
<freeflying|away> magnal: it dose
<magnal> freeflying|away: does adept show the size of the download on a column?
<magnal> freeflying|away: ... or anywhere at all??
<freeflying|away> magnal: you may have a try on adept, and you will get it
<magnal> freeflying|away: i don't find it
<magnal> freeflying|away: this is what i am trying
<freeflying|away> magnal: I seldom use adept  :P
<magnal> freeflying|away: synaptic is more complete
<magnal> freeflying|away: and handy
<freeflying|away> magnal: maybe, but I seldom use either
<magnal> is adept default on both kubuntu and ubuntu, or does ubuntu use synaptic by default
<Hobbsee> mmm...buildign machine = great heater!
<Hobbsee> magnal: ubuntu = synaptic by default.
<magnal> Hobbsee: does synaptic have an update notifier similar to adept notifier?
<Hobbsee> magnal: yes, update manager - i believe it's a separate program
<magnal> Hobbsee: thanks
<magnal> freeflying|away: and thank you too
<magnal> do the new updates for kubuntu include kde 3.5.3?
<crimsun> yes, they do.
<crimsun> I presume you read http://kubuntu.org?
<magnal> crimsun: please explain to me why it wasn't included in the original desktop cd? i mean, it's strange to me that it was released earlier than the desktop cd and yet not on it.
<magnal> s/\?/\./
<kagou> hi
<crimsun> magnal: pool froze before 3.5.3 was released
<magnal> crimsun: i see. is 3.5.3 safe enough? or is it preferable to stay on 3.5.2 for now?
<BazziR> magnal: does contain some bugs still.
<crimsun> magnal: people have reported problems in #kubuntu with 3.5.3, for instance with volumes not being automounted upon insertion
<pschulz01> Greetings.. I would like to package up some software but it's been written in quite a complicated way to support multiple platforms. It really needs to 'autotools'..
<kagou> is it possible to generate directly a .dsc file without building the package with a debuild -us -uc ?
<crimsun> pschulz01: heh, autotools can be beastly, too.
<pschulz01> Has anyone hear dealt with upstream that are in a similar state?
<_ion> kagou: Look at dpkg-buildpackage(1), keyword: -S
<pschulz01> crimsun: Yes, I know.. but..
* _ion hates autotools.
* _ion loves autotools.
<kagou> _ion: ok, i look at this. thnx
* pschulz01 testing whether user likes autotools: yes (cached)
<StevenK> kagou: dpkg-source can generate a .dsc directly
<kagou> StevenK: thnx i'v founded :)
<Seveas> imbrandon_, if you link imbrandon_ to imbrandon both nicks will be cloaked. To do that do this as imbrandon_: /quote ns link imbrandon password_of_imbrandon
* sivang reads sirestart's backports proposal
<Toadstool> heya MOTUs
<kagou> i have problems with pbuilder. i try to tell it that it must add /var/cache/pbuilder/result in his search path when it build a package. Of course i'v generated in /var/cache/pbuilder/result a Pacake.gz
<kagou> s/Pacake.gz/Package.gz
<magnal> which the package that makes it possible to listen mp3s in amarok?
<kagou> any ideas ?
<BazziR> magnal: thats #kubuntu stuff ;) libxine-extracodecs
<imbrandon_> thanks Seveas thought i had done that, but anyhow i did now
<magnal> BazziR: btw, there is a huge (and unminimizable) left pannel of amarok's playlist. you can't imagine how much i hate that filescking pannel!! is there *any* way on earth i could MOVE IT AWAY from view (OTHER than recompiling amarok)??
<imbrandon_> Seveas: any word on my @ubuntu/member cloak ? ;)
<BazziR> magnal: you mean the context thingy?
<magnal> BazziR: thanks.. somebody told me how to get it out of view.. it was much simpler than i could imagine. i only looked for it in the preferences
<bmonty> hi \sh!
<\sh> moins
<Hobbsee> hi \sh
<tseng> hi
<Windkracht8> Hello all, Can someone point me to the easy est way to package a really small program(one executable, that's it)
<Windkracht8> Do I have to follow the packaging help in ubuntu or is there a program/tool that can do some stuff for me
<bmonty> Windkracht8: the packaging guide has what you need
<_ion> I made an example for a friend today: wget -N http://johan.kiviniemi.name/tmp/packaging_rumor.{timing,script} && scriptreplay packaging_rumor.{timing,script}
<ogra> _ion, cool idea to use scriptreplay
<pschulz01>  Windkracht8: Also, have a look at the dh_make tool.
<Windkracht8> My problem is that that's all to compile source and then create a package out of that, but I have already compiled it I just need to place a single executable in a package.
<sladen> Posted by Zonk on Sunday June 04, @01:29AM
<sladen> from the totally-hawesome dept.
<sladen> Books
<bmonty> Windkracht8: the process of creating a package includes compiling the source to create the binaries
<\sh> Windkracht8: packaging binaries is not debian packages purpose...what you want is something like .bin packages, it's something like a shar archive
<pschulz01> Windkracht8: Hmmm... you need a 'Make' script that installs the file into $PREFIX/usr/bin/<executible>.
<Windkracht8> ok, that's to bad for me, I use Qt because qmake makes the Makefile for me, I don't know how to do that stuff
<pschulz01> Does Qt use 'configure'?
<Windkracht8> no
<Windkracht8> well, I don't got a make script and don't know how to write one
<Windkracht8> so, if I want to package, I'll have to learn that?
<pschulz01> Does the Qt makefile support '$DESTDIR' in the 'Make instal' target?
<bmonty> Windkracht8: at least some basics of makefiles...the packaging guide has some good info
<Windkracht8> pschulz01, not sure, I'm looking now, normally with Qt I write a program and go: "qmake -project"(creates a project file) "qmake"(creates the Makefile) "make" and then I've got an executable.
<pschulz01> Windkracht8: How do you 'install' a Qt program?
<Windkracht8> copy to /usr/bin
<pschulz01> Windkracht8: Is there anything like 'make install'?
<Windkracht8> that's kind of what I'm trying to find out now, how to install my Qt program on a different system
<pschulz01> Windkracht8: As a user (not root), type 'make install'
<Windkracht8> not standard, it gives a 'make: Nothing to be done for `install'.'
<bmonty> this would probably be a better discussion for #qt
<Windkracht8> but I'm looking at the manual now
<Windkracht8> well they send me to #ubuntu because I wanted a .deb
<bmonty> Windkracht8: if that is what you want then you need to package the software as described in the packaging guide
<Windkracht8> well, I think a .deb is the easiest way for the user
<Windkracht8> then they can use dpkg
<pschulz01> Windkracht8: Have to go.. good luck.
<Windkracht8> thanks
<bmonty> Windkracht8: if you are running ubuntu go System->Help->System Documentation and select "Ubuntu Packaging Guide"
<bmonty> and with dapper users can use gdebi which will install the .deb file using a GUI
<Windkracht8> yes I was looking at that, but I was hoping there would be a easier way to create a package without the need of compiling the program again
<sivang> Windkracht8: you actually could, but this is mostly done in cases where the source is not available. Why would you not recompile the program?
<Windkracht8> because I do not know how to write a Makefile
<Windkracht8> and I think there's no need to recompile, because when I copy the single executable to another computer it works
<Windkracht8> I just want to create a .deb so dpkg will put it in the right directory when I got an update
<sivang> Windkracht8: what about users of outher architectures?
<sivang> Windkracht8: you can't exopect them to just copy over the xecutable, or deb?
<sivang> Windkracht8: writing a basic Makefile is not that hard, there\s a nice howto for using autotools to have them create it for you
<sivang> Windkracht8: http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~iam/docs/tutorial.html
<Windkracht8> well, copying over the executable is actually exactly what I want to do. That's what I'm doing at to moment I just want that automated
* bmonty kicks himself...if you want to read mail, it really helps to point the client at the right server
<Hobbsee> bmonty: hehe.  yeah, kinda useful :P
<bmonty> I've been trying to get evolution working on a new machine since yesteday afternoon and I was mistyping the hostname of the server :(
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee has done that.
<StevenK> I've mistyped the hostname of a machine in DNS.
<StevenK> That was fun.
<bmonty> the really bad thing is it is a server on my own network that I use everyday
<bmonty> StevenK: doh! yeah, I bet that was frustrating
<Hobbsee> night all.
<sladen> Finns still ecstatic about Lordi's surprise victory
<sladen> EiTB, Spain - May 22, 2006
<sladen> ... Tabloids on Monday featured 20-page supplements and posters of Lordi, and the growling monsters' song blared on radios and as background music on TV weather ...
<sladen> Finns still ecstatic about Lordi's surprise victory
<sladen> EiTB, Spain - May 22, 2006
<sladen> oops
<sladen> darn the middle button
<zul> hmmm...quiet
<bmonty> yup
<tuxmaniac> zul:  find the reason?
<zul> what reason?
<tuxmaniac> zul: for channel to be quiet!
<zul> oh...yeah...the diety is not here
<tuxmaniac> :-)
<zul> im going to go have a nap
<bmonty> ajmitch: just so you know, ldapsearch with a URI with ldaps in it doesn't work on amd64 with the current package in ubuntu (2.2.26-5ubuntu2)
<Toadstool> bmonty_away: uh ? it works for me...
<kagou> hi
<kagou> hey hub
<phanatic> hi people
<kagou> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey kagou
<bmonty> Toadstool: when you use ldaps://ldapserver.com/ you can connect?
<Toadstool> yep
<bmonty> and you are using amd64?'
<Toadstool> yeah
<bmonty> huh, I wonder what the problem is for me then...I can't get the thing to give me any useful error messages
<Toadstool> what's the error message?
<bmonty> on a packet sniff I see the TCP three-way handshake, and then the server immediately sends a FIN
<bmonty> ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s: Can't contact LDAP server (-1)
<Toadstool> the server doesn't support SASL, use the -x option for simple auth
<bmonty> the exact same setup works fine on an i386 box on the same network
<Toadstool> hum...
<bmonty> it does do SASL, if I use a URI with ldap:// it does a SASL bind no problem
<bmonty> plus I have other hosts using SASL to get account info from the server
<Toadstool> can't help you testing that I don't have SASL on my own ldap server :/
<bmonty> Toadstool: so maybe the problem is ldaps+SASL+amd64
<Toadstool> yep
<bmonty> I need to grab the package from debian and see if that solves the problem
<Toadstool> at least it looks like it is something like that since it works without SASL
<bmonty> actually it works without SSL
<bmonty> SASL works fine
<Toadstool> and SSL works fine alone :)
<bmonty> Toadstool: yup
<bmonty> problem is that libnss-ldap doesn't do SASL encryption :(
<Seveas> imbrandon, the cloak has been set 5 minutes before that last message 
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-28
<shawarma> imbrandon: perm?
<shawarma> imbrandon: Is that secret code for the jabber server?
<shawarma> seems to be :)
<imbrandon> shawarma, perm == permanently
<ajmitch> hi
<sacater> what is the default picture-viewer in Ubuntu 7.04
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
<jdong> bug 117256
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117256 in Ubuntu "Thats What She Said!" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117256
<jdong> wow :)
<jdong> couldn't resist replying though
<shawarma> imbrandon: Oh, of course.
<joejaxx> jdong: that is messed up
<crimsun> sacater: eog
<imbrandon> ugh, looks like someone compromised p.d.o , ors its a lame joke
<geser> http://flickr.com/photos/jtarrio/512422457/
<ajmitch> imbrandon: p.d.o?
<imbrandon> planet.debian.org
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> I was thinking either people or packages.d.o
<imbrandon> the more i look, the more it looks like a bad joke
<ajmitch> imbrandon: what's the bad joke?
<imbrandon> loldebian.wordpress.org
<imbrandon> syndication
<imbrandon> s/.org/.com
<ajmitch> ok, I don't see what it's a bad joke
<ajmitch> it's a bunch of old photos with silly captions
<imbrandon> yea like the cat captions, 1999ish
<imbrandon> just was suprised to see it on the planet
<ajmitch> I'm not
<ajmitch> I know how odd some people are
<imbrandon> has pidgin leaked into gutsy from unstable yet ? 
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> ii  pidgin                            2.0.0+dfsg.1-3ubuntu2             multi-protocol instant messaging client
<imbrandon> ahh not 2.0.1-1 , i'm sure that will sync soonish
<imbrandon> err maybe not, looks mergeable
<crimsun> err, double-you tee eff. snd-hda-intel is more broken than previously thought.
* ajmitch was having great fun with sound the other day
<ajmitch> ending up with having to reboot
<crimsun> interestingly enough, pulseaudio does the Right Thing
<crimsun> ajmitch: what sort of issues? feisty? gutsy?
<ajmitch> gutsy, with feisty kernel
<ajmitch> was playing something in wine with the alsa driver
<ajmitch> apps then blocked trying to do things with sound
<ajmitch> it's not the first time it's happened, but previously rmmod & modprobe had fixed it
<crimsun> that's ominous and smells of memory corruption
<ajmitch> any time it's happened, wine has been involved, I'm sure :)
<ajmitch> one point it was due to a fan stopping, however I got at least some info in dmesg
<ajmitch> it wouldn't surprise me if it was still due to overheating
<RAOF> Howdie MOTUs!
<crimsun> hi.
<RAOF> Good morning crimsun :)
<ryanakca> can a MOTU look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5299 please
<RAOF> I'm not a motu, but is that XS-Vcs-Svn: correct?  I thought that field was for when the packaging was in an RCS.
<RAOF> ryanakca: Also, I think the versioning might want to be 1.0~alpha5-0ubuntu1, so that when the actual 1.0 package comes out, 1.0-0ubuntu1 will have a higher version number.
<ryanakca> RAOF: I don't know, I copied it from the vim package.
<ryanakca> I can take care of the alpha part though
<RAOF> ryanakca: Yeah, the Vcs bit is for the *packaging* in SVN, not upstream (if I read this mail from u-d-d correctly)
<ryanakca> ok. I'll take it out :)
<crimsun> this newen feller in the support channel really is spouting nonsense.
<RAOF> Just a bit :)
<StevenK> crimsun: Now you have to share.
* StevenK sighs. I don't want to uuencode a new icon just so I can uudecode it in the rules file.
<crimsun> essentially, he's saying that it's easier to write crap Python than crap C and that he should use Mono or Java because Python is just a scripting language.
<persia> StevenK: Use XPM!
<StevenK> persia: It's PNG, and I'd rather not convert it at build time. :-)
<persia> StevenK: Convert it at packaging time.
<StevenK> crimsun: Riiiight
<StevenK> persia: I'm not sure if the program in question would cope with XPM data as opposed to PNG.
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  Too bad :(
<ajmitch> crimsun: if he wants to use java, well it's his funeral :)
<welshbyte> he seems to be too busy language trolling to do any coding ;)
<crimsun> yep, questions like "which is faster, mono, java or python" clearly indicate a lack of understanding
<imbrandon> java and funeral in the same sentance, man i love this place more and more
<imbrandon> :)
<joejaxx> :(
<joejaxx> java is good for certain applications :\
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> imbrandon: may i pm?
<imbrandon> joejaxx, yea
<imbrandon> joejaxx, you never have to ask me , as long as i'm arround :)
<joejaxx> ok :)
<joejaxx> just irc manners :P
* StevenK doesn't like the idea of Build-Depend'ing on sharutils.
<persia> StevenK: It's not uncommon.
<ryanakca> why do I get this when running debuild -S -sa -kE95EDDC9 ? http://pastebin.ca/515064
<RAOF> ryanakca: Because you've got seahorse running as a GPG agent, and you haven't passed "-e DISPLAY" as the first parameter of debuild?
* persia suggests adding DEBUILD_PRESERVE_ENVVARS=DISPLAY to ~/.devscripts
<ryanakca> RAOF: I have no such thing installed. I did however, just write https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KMailGPGAgent ... gpg-agent :)
<ryanakca> will do
<ryanakca> unknown dpkg-buildpackage/debuild option: DISPLAY
<RAOF> -e DISPLAY?
<ryanakca> oh, oops
<ryanakca> first parameter != last
<RAOF> ryanakca: And that wiki page seems to have broken formatting for the second script (.kde/shutdown/gpg-agent.sh)
<ryanakca> RAOF: yeah. I'm trying to figure that part out
<ryanakca> RAOF: it seems to ignore the [[BR] ]  :S
<LaserJock> hi superm1 
<superm1> hi LaserJock 
<Hobbsee> morning all
<superm1> i saw that i made it onto behind-motu early this last morning :)
<ajmitch> congrats
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<LaserJock> superm1: yeah, finally got it up
<andyp> ah that's better, a nick which is something close to my name
* joejaxx looks
<ScottK> Good evening all.
* ScottK just skimmed 3 days of scrollback.  Looks like things have been busy.
<Hobbsee> hi ScottK!
<StevenK> ScottK: You've been hiding under a rock for 3 days?
<ScottK> No, not under a rock, just AFK due to a combination of work and family.
<nixternal> OK, I need something to do
<nixternal> I have looked at wnpp, the rfp's, ubuntu request tags
<nixternal> to me it seemed that working on those right now is a waste of time if there is other work needed
<ScottK> nixternal: There;'s ~150 open bugs against courier in Debian.  If you're really bored you could see if any apply to us and fix them, now that you're the courier expert.
<nixternal> gahahahahadamnahahahahahahohdamnhahaha
<nixternal> 150? last I checked my courier package had
<ScottK> OK.  Not that bored.
<nixternal> umm
<nixternal> ...0
<nixternal> :)
<ScottK> None in Ubuntu.  Those are in Debian.
<nixternal> oh lordy ;)
<ScottK> nixternal: Do you know much about troubleshooting broken pipes?
<nixternal> can't say that I do, that is why I have a plumber ;p
<nixternal> what type of piping are we referring to here
<nixternal> if I don't know much..I am sure I can learn
<ScottK> Broken pipe between pyzor and spamassassin.
<ScottK> First step would be to see if you can replicate it, then if you can confirm it, figure out which package to blame and fix it.
<nixternal> I will check it out
<ScottK> OK.  Great.  It's Bug 115853 and note that it's using the spamassassin 3.2.0 from feisty-backports.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115853 in spamassassin "[apport]  pyzor crashed with IOError in run()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115853
<nixternal> anything dealing with spam control I am all for
<nixternal> ;)
<ScottK> There is now a newer spamassassin in gutsy, so if it looks like it's spamassassin's fault, the first thing I'd look into is does backporting that fix it.
<nixternal> running pyzor report now
<ScottK> Adri2000 or Lutin: If you look at the scapy merge it generates a conflict where there really isn't one in debian/control due to the maintainer change.
<RAOF> That's what I call a bug title!
<nixternal> ScottK: I don't get that crash at all
<nixternal> using --mbox
<ScottK> nixternal: OK.  Then please mark it needs infor and ask the reporter to give steps to reproduce.  Thanks for looking.
<nixternal> will do
<ScottK> Great.
<nixternal> why is spamassassin listed in that report?
<nixternal> pyzor doesn't work with spamassassin from waht I could tell
<ScottK> nixternal: I added it because that's what the broken pipe was from.  Since he'd just upgraded to the new SA in backports, it seems reasonable it might be to blame.
<ScottK> nixternal: OK, then maybe that part of the comment was a complete red herring.
<nixternal> ahh, ok
* ScottK didn't investigate in detail.  
<nixternal> ii  spamassassin          3.2.0-0ubuntu2~feisty Perl-based spam filter using text analysis
<nixternal> I have 3.2 installed as well
<nixternal> maybe he needs to rm -rf ~/.pyzor
<ScottK> Do you have the Gutsy version or the Feisty-backports version?
<nixternal> feisty backports according to that I just posted
<nixternal> he is using 7.04
<ScottK> Ah, yes.  That's right.
* ScottK remembered wrong on the versions.  Guty is -1ubuntu1 now.
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> I can get that same traceback almost by doing ctrl+c by forcing pyzor to hang
<nixternal> the first 3 lines are identical
<ScottK> IIRC, if a pipe is waiting for input and you stop the program, that's what you'll get, but I'm not sure.
<nixternal> well, I didn't get the broken pipe, it let me know kb caused the issue
<ScottK> OK
<nixternal> man, I did find out the to become a DD, hell even a NM, it is no joke. there is a lot of questions they ask
<ScottK> The is true.
<crimsun> for good reason, too.
<ScottK> I've been working in Debian through teams and then with DDs I met there for non-team stuff through mentors.
<ajmitch> nixternal: you're going to be a DD?
<nixternal> not for about another 8 years
<ajmitch> so we can sit at your feet & bask in your wisdom, right? :)
<nixternal> I would like to one of these days..I have a good instructor now...the guy who lives by me that is the DD, he was like the 40th ever
<nixternal> been a DD since 95...he is going to give us CDBS and helper talks to get a ton of us into packaging
<ajmitch> who is that?
* ScottK likes the MOTU process better.  Do work until someone kicks you to apply, write one e-mail, and then sit around nervous for a while until it all works out.
<nixternal> dirk buettelican'tspelltherestw/olookingatemail
<ajmitch> heh ok
<ajmitch> ScottK: not nearly as comprehensive
<joejaxx> ScottK: lol
<ScottK> Agreed.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: core is worse, yes
* ajmitch isn't cool enough for core dev
<Hobbsee> sure you are
<ajmitch> no, I just bribed the right people
<nixternal> the one good thing though with maintaining my own packages and working with the dds, is that I can now see little things within a package that aren't right, troubleshooting w/o asking so many damn questions
* ScottK isn't cool enough for MOTU, but no process it perfect.  He got in anyhow.
<nixternal> building a library package from scratch, granted it was fairly easy
<crimsun> a good upstream can make library maintenance a lot less hellish.
<ajmitch> they just let me into debian because they felt sorry for me
<crimsun> proper so* bumps, etc.
<nixternal> crimsun: well this upstream didn't :)
<nixternal> and remember to strip the /*.la
* jmg crosses fingers that upgrading to feisty wont wipe out his custom xorg/gdm config
<ajmitch> someone fix bug 116193 for me, I haven't had time to reproduce it :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116193 in tzdata "error upgrading tzdata_2007e to tzdata_2007f" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116193
<ajmitch> if anyone here has hit it, please tell me
<persia> ajmitch: There's the handy little +mentor link :)
<nixternal> ajmitch: I am the same as bill on there with timezone, and never had the issue
<ajmitch> persia: yes, helpful, but mentoring is usually for simple little tasks
<ajmitch> this is probably some debconf evils again
<ajmitch> nixternal: cat /etc/timezone
<nixternal> what do you think?
<nixternal> America/Chicago
<nixternal> hehe
<ajmitch> well mine says "User defined" :P
<nixternal> oh wait a second
<persia> Hrm.  I've been using +mentor for anything that I'm not going to do right now, but could do, and wouldn't mind walking someone through or reviewing patches.
<nixternal> that says with f and not e
<nixternal> I have e installed
<nixternal> is there an f for feisty
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> but we're doing gutsy here
<ajmitch> so you're no help :P
<nixternal> I can fire up gutsy I guess
<nixternal> why the dpkg -i if he is on gutsy? why not jsut an apt-get upgrade
<persia> nixternal: minimal test case to demonstrate a bug?
<jmg> is dist-upgrading via update-manager reccomended?
<RAOF> Yes
<ajmitch> nixternal: to demonstrate the error easily
<ajmitch> since apt-get probably broke
<nixternal> true
* nixternal fires up gutsy
<ajmitch> and it could be downgraded 
<Hobbsee> i'm sure dpkg should die, at some point
<Hobbsee> that'd cause some fun
<nixternal> lovely...stupid vbox
<jmg> my box is an interesting upgrade case
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: well I did have to edit a postinst recently to allow a package to be upgraded/downgraded/removed
<jmg> 2x nvidia cards (agp, pci), customised gdm config
<Hobbsee> sorry, more to the point, dpkg sould automatically segfault when doing anything.  that'd be fun.
<nixternal> ajmitch: it worked here just fine
<nixternal> even told me to run dpkg-reconfigure tzdata if I wish to change it
<ajmitch> nixternal: thanks
<ajmitch> so back to figuring out just what it is that broke
<nixternal> no problem
<nixternal> and that installed on both feisty and gutsy
<nixternal> so that destroys my earlier logic
<ajmitch> logic?
<ajmitch> hm
<jmg> ok, rebewt 
<jmg> how fscked are we today! find out soon!
<jmg> unsurprisingly upgrading to feisty goatowned my box
<jmg> it failed to convert /home
<jmg> from being mounted from /dev/sda4 to /dev/hde4
<ajmitch> not using UUIDs in /etc/fstab?
<StevenK> That should have happened on fresh install of Edgy or upgrading to Edgy.
<jmg> ajmitch: i added it after upgrading to edgy
<jmg> it wasnt converted on the feisty upgrade
<StevenK> jmg: The Feisty upgrade doesn't do any conversion.
<jmg> StevenK: why not?
<StevenK> ... because it was done from Dapper to Edgy?
<jmg> but it broke this config
<Fujitsu> If you've manually modified it, it's probably assumed that you can fix it.
<jmg> Fujitsu: which i did
<Fujitsu> Standard configurations won't break like that.
<jmg> Theres no functionality that i found to migrate /home to a new partition, so I had to do it manually. Then after upgrading I had to drop to single to fix fstab manually
<persia> Perhaps a script could be shipped that would allow users following (older, non-Ubuntu) guides on editing /etc/fstab to automatically convert to a UUID-based format?
<StevenK>  /lib/udev/vol_id or so spits out the UUID.
<persia> `sudo vol_id /dev/hde4` in this case
<ScottK> Fujitsu, persia, or StevenK: would one of you please have a look at Bug #117273?  It's the first sync I've done as a MOTU and subscribed the archive directly.  I'd appreciate a double check to make sure I got everything in the bug (no need to check if it's really a sync, I'm confident on that).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117273 in python-numpy "Sync python-numpy 1:1.0.3-1 from Debian Unstable (Main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117273
* Fujitsu looks.
* StevenK does too.
<ScottK> Thanks
<persia> ScottK: I like to specifically list the changes that can be overwritten, or otherwise make life very easy for the archive admin.
<StevenK> I agree with persia.
<Fujitsu> I got attacked a few times for not specifying them explicitly.
<jmg> It's not clear what the UUID was or how it was generated. When I first saw it I nearly replaced it with /dev/blahs
<ScottK> OK.  I'll add that.  Thanks.
<Fujitsu> Also, you might want to consider using requestsync (in devscripts), which generates it all (except for the rationale for dropping Ubuntu changes, of course) automatically.
<persia> ScottK: Just to clarify, you don't need to specify when it's in the Debian changelog (see bug 110346 for an example), but if not, the Rationale section should include further information.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110346 in torcs "Please sync torcs 1.2.4-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110346
* persia doesn't like requestsync
* Hobbsee hugs requestsync
<LaserJock> requestsync actually works?
<ajmitch> sometimes
<LaserJock> I've never used it
<persia> LaserJock: sometimes
<ajmitch> I've had issues fetching changelogs though (problem on the debian side)
<Fujitsu> I like it, but I often request syncs before the changelog appears on changelog.debian.net, so have to do them manually :(
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: that does get annoying
<Fujitsu> I wish it would be a little quicker with updating.
<Hobbsee> assuming debian changelog sites actually work, tehn yes it does
<persia> I usually process enough of the merge to determine I can sync (including testing) that it's easier just to paste to LP.
<Hobbsee> the latest version is cool
* ScottK is back to caught up on merges now.
* Fujitsu is back to finishing a year 12 English Language assessment task that he has had for about 2 months but hasn't done much on yet. It's due on Friday.
* Fujitsu is king of procrastination.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ouchy.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: what's it on?
<Hobbsee> those things always suck
<Fujitsu> I think I'm almost done; it wasn't meant to be a particularly big thing, just done over time.
<ScottK> "King of procrastination" is a big title to be claiming.  Myself and two other people in my household are probably competitive for that title.
<Fujitsu> I should probably find some lunch too...
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Hah, I doubt it.
<Hobbsee> ahh
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i should find some breakfast.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: EAT!
<Hobbsee> :P
<ScottK> When I was in college I once did a semester programming project over a weekend during finals by staying awake for 48 hours straight because I'd procrastinated the whole project the entire semester.
<Hobbsee> haha
* Hobbsee has done something similar
<Hobbsee> i faile dit, too
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<TheMuso> Howd the MOTU meeting go?
<ScottK> Hey TheMuso
* TheMuso waits eagerly for the minutes.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: terribly exciting
<ajmitch> aka, I was barely awake
<ScottK> Mine was Z80 assembler.  I quit to take a nap once I started hearing voices in the back of my head giving me programming advice.
<TheMuso> Heh right.
<ajmitch> ScottK: as long as they give the right advice, it's all good
<persia> TheMuso: It went well.  Raw log is available from http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2007-05-25.html
<TheMuso> persia: Thanks, but generally the minutes are enough. If I can't wait, I'll read the log. :)
<ScottK> Well that was the problem.  They were arguing back and forth between two solutions to a bug and neither one worked.
* TheMuso has his web dev hat on atm, so not MOTUing again just yet.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: was interesting.  i've got a suspicion that i'm supposed to be doing the minutes, so...
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Right.
* TheMuso decides to do the minutes for every future meeting he attends.
<persia> Yay!
<ajmitch> TheMuso: because the rest of us are so slack?
<Hobbsee> very much so
* Hobbsee is slack
<crimsun> do I need to do the minutes or something?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: no, you'res uppsoed to be on holiday
<crimsun> right, like I said, do I need to do the minutes or something? :-)
<joejaxx> crimsun is on holiday? 
<joejaxx> crimsun: congrats :P
<crimsun> joejaxx: it's Memorial Day.
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> interesting
<jmg> seems to have broken my usb card reader as well
<joejaxx> jmg: what are you running?
<jmg> joejaxx: feisty now
<jmg> just upgraded, to try and get my 2gb sd card to read
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> i thought you were talking about gutsy
<jmg> FATAL ERROR: Bad primary partition 0: Partition ends in the final partial cylind
<persia> jmg: Try asking in #ubuntu - perhaps someone can point you in the right direction.
<ScottK> Good night all.
<RAOF> night!
<jussi01> hello motu's!!
<ajmitch> hello
<jussi01> hi ajmitch 
<persia> Hey jussi01.
<jussi01> hello persia, hows that build machine?
<jussi01> :P
<persia> jussi01: Still doesn't build :(
<jussi01> persia: maybe I should just bug ajmitch :P (grins evilly)
<persia> jussi01: ajmitch is hard to bug, and can be wrathful.  Be careful :)
<jussi01> hehe, ok... :P
* RAOF would offer an AMD64 build box again, except it currently isn't intertron-connected
<jussi01> RAOF: you could just reveiw..... :D
<StevenK> I would, except that it's my desktop machine. :-)
* persia wonders if the intertron is made of lightcycle trails...
<RAOF> jussi01: Not a MOTU :)
<jussi01> oh...
<LaserJock> StevenK: I figured out the reason gcompris built for you and I but not on the buildds
<RAOF> Although I *could* review a bit, if you want to give a link.
<LaserJock> StevenK: gnuchess was demoted to Universe, so if you pbuilder has Universe enabled it gets the dep fine
<jussi01> well for all of you awake: mnemosyne http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5293
<jussi01> Im heading out to have a shower etc and wake up, back in about 15....
<StevenK> LaserJock: D'OH!
<LaserJock> StevenK: yeah, it didn't even cross my mind
<LaserJock> I'm too used to Universe
<StevenK> I'm hoping sbuild will help me find those issues.
* StevenK glances at persia.
<persia> StevenK: Just make sure to make separate sources, one for main and one for universe
<StevenK> persia: Oh twitch, I can do that with pbuilder.
<persia> StevenK: But do you really want to?
<StevenK> I already have 6 chroots, I don't want 9.
<persia> StevenK: 6?  Why?
<minghua> with some Debian ones, I assume
<StevenK> persia: {feisty,gutsy,sid}-{amd64,i386}
<jmg> grr
<persia> StevenK: Right.  So with sbuild, you maintain those 6 as separate LVMs, and mount snapshot chroots with `schroot -c sid-i386` when you want to investigate something, and use snapshot chroots with `sbuild -A -d gutsy-amd64 foo.dsc` when you want to build something.
<persia> Oops, I guess you would need 8: one extra each for feisty-main and gutsy-main.
<LaserJock> has anybody done any upgrade testing using pbuilder?
<Hobbsee> i have, yeah
<LaserJock> I'm working on semi-official TeX repo
<LaserJock> and we need to work out a systematic testing scheme
<jmg> grr
<jmg> nobody in ubuntu has sufficient clue, and im not sure if there is already a bug filed, as i dont know what to look for or where to file it.
<RAOF> jussi01: Does it really build-depend on all those python-foo packages (-qt3, etc)?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: how did it work?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: worked fine, except there were a couple of "dbus couldnt start" errors, iirc
<RAOF> jussi01: You also *might* want to bump the build-depend on python-support up to 0.6, and use the new Python-depends stuff (see, for example, democracyplayer).  Although that will pretty much kill off backports, if you're concerned about that.
<mpt> Could someone please reply to Val's message of May 18th in ubuntu-devel@ ("VQF plugin for XMMS")? Looks like a potential contributor, would be a shame if he/she went to waste :-)
<crimsun> MOTU meeting minutes for 2007-05-25 posted at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2007-05-25
<crimsun> mpt: sure, I moderated that one through.
<crimsun> just haven't gotten around to responding yet
<StevenK> Hrm.
<StevenK> How to convince this KDE package that it really really doesn't want to ship .mo files...
<Burgundavia> StevenK: run GNOME :)
<mpt> thanks crimsun 
<Hobbsee> crimsun: thanks
<jussi01> and my connection is back... :D
<RAOF> jussi01: Did you get my comments?
<jussi01> RAOF: yes
<jussi01> :D
<jussi01> it does need all the qt3 and stuff...
<RAOF> To build?  That sucks.
<jussi01> yeah, weid huh
<jussi01> anyway, I need to go to school.... bluegh school.....see yas all when I get back...
<Fujitsu> Bye, jussi01.
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Heh, that's a quite active thread :)
<Hobbsee> RAOF: which?
<RAOF> The "Knoppix is awesome" thread.
<Hobbsee> ah right, yes
<Hobbsee> you need a developer tag
<RAOF> Which you just posted to, right below me :)
<Hobbsee> yep
<Hobbsee> oh, you posted while i was replying.  gotcha
<RAOF> Maybe I do need a developer tag.  How does one come my such a thing?
<Hobbsee> ask a forums mod
<StevenK> One begs the forum admins, I think.
<Hobbsee> jdong: etc
* Hobbsee --> work
<persia> Is it just me, or can gutsy not debootstrap a gutsy chroot today?
* persia decides it's not a local problem after testing with VMs.
<Lutin> ScottK: not really our fault, it's the diff3 output. we can't prevent it. (for the scapy merge)
<persia> Lutin: Couldn't you parse it for only being the XSBC- bit?
<Lutin> persia: dunno...not sure I'm good enough to do it :)
<BugMaN> hi all
* persia hunts the code, in hopes of addressing bug 113650 at the same time
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113650 in dad "Does not handle SYNC candidates well" [Wishlist,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113650
<PDET> hello!
<persia> PDET: Hello.
<Lutin> persia: good luck with the code. evil piece of crap at some points :] 
<persia> Lutin: Any specific section that I should be looking at?
<Lutin> persia: the genpatches function
<Lutin> persia: thanks for looking into that. I have exams now and then will be away for 6 weeks, so I won't have the time to work on it
<persia> Lutin: No promises.  I've a few things on my list, so if I don't see something quickly, I'll probably drop it :)  Good luck on your exams.
<Lutin> persia: np :). thanks
<persia> Lutin: I need to check the syntax, but I would think that http://pastebin.ca/515567 would take care of much of it, assuming that DaD will later do the maintainer thing.
<persia> No, the syntax is completely wrong.
<persia> doko: I wanted to ask you about setting DEBIAN_WX_DEFAULT_VERSION to 2.8 in the wxwidgets2.6 package.  What is the intended effect of this change?
<doko> persia: read the comment above that line
<StevenK> Can anyone think of a package that needs to play with admin/cvs.sh to get a .pot file and uses CDBS?
<imbrandon> amarok iirc
<persia> doko: That comment leads me to believe that wx2.8 is expected to provide the tools to process the wx2.6 headers.  What I don't understand is what this is supposed to do for wxwidgets2.6.  I've had trouble installing the wx2.6 binaries with the new changes, and I'm concerned as many packages don't build with 2.8.
<imbrandon> StevenK, ^
<imbrandon> StevenK, most older* kde apps do
<imbrandon> if i rember right
<StevenK> imbrandon: Okay, how about one that doesn't have 15Mb of source? :-)
<imbrandon> heh ktorrent possibly
<imbrandon> like i said most older kdeapps
<StevenK> Hrm. I thought ktorrent 2.2 final was out.
<StevenK> I wonder if it leaks memory like a sieve.
<doko> persia: then you have to change these packages to explicitely use the 2.6 tools
<persia> doko: So rather than just explicitly depending on the 2.6 development libraries, the packages' build systems must be patched to use the 2.6 tools?
<doko> persia: what problem are you trying to solve?
<persia> doko: Generally, I've been working to port all the wx2.4 packages to wx2.6 so that wx2.4 may be dropped from both Debian and Ubuntu.  The specific problem that led me to contact you was that aptitude complained when I tried to install the updated wx2.6 libraries and tools, but the change to the package was small (and not something I understood well), which left me confused about the cause.
<doko> persia: if some package cannot be installed, it's a bug, and should be reported
<persia> doko: OK.  I'll chase the installation failure and fix it.  I just wasn't sure if some of the binaries built by wx2.6 were now deprecated and should not be installed.  Thanks a lot.
* imbrandon yawns
<sacater> crimsun: ty
* StevenK kicks Windows running on his poor laptop.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: What's it doing on there?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Installed, or running?
<Fujitsu> Either.
<StevenK> Two words. Rational Rose
<StevenK> If you don't know what that is, consider yourself lucky.
<Fujitsu> I shall consider myself lucky, then.
<StevenK> Heh
* persia prefers together - runs on linux too!
* StevenK mails off the hateful class diagram and tries to make sense of poppler instead.
<Fujitsu> Hah, poppler doesn't make sense.
<StevenK> Sure it does.
<StevenK> The new upload helpfully renamed some packages which haven't cleared binary NEW yet. When they do, other things will need a rebuild.
<StevenK> And there's another problem caused by NBS.
<StevenK> Hah!
<StevenK> texlive-common: Conflicts: texlive-pdfetex
<fernando> moin all
<StevenK> Except that texlive-context Depends on both texlive-common and texlive-pdfetex
<zorglu_> q. anybody aware of a channel where apt-get dev hang around ?
<bmm> Hi everybody. I'm looking for comments or an advocation on ccbuild: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5295
<bmm> Thanks in advance
<\sh> moins
<ryanakca> can a MOTU look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5307 please
<geser> zorglu_: ask mvo as he did all the last apt uploads. you find him in #ubuntu-devel on workdays
<zorglu_> geser: thanks
<xxxxx1> morning people
<soc> hi
<soc> i have a problem with ckeckinstall
<soc> if i do a traditional ./configure &&make && sudo make install everything works
<soc> if i do a sudo checkinstall it builds a package including "gcc", "ld", "nm", "strip"
<soc> and of course it fails to install the package
<imbrandon> soc, well we dont do support in here and definately not for checkinstall, we promote proper packaging
<imbrandon> or try to
<soc> mh ok
<soc> thought that would be a bug if checkinstall builds packages whcih want to remove binutils ...
<Fujitsu> checkinstall does crazy stuff, which is why it is forbidden here.
<imbrandon> sure, feel free to file a bug
<soc> is there a suggested tutorial anywhere?
<imbrandon> !package guide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<soc> ok thanks
<soc> i will look that up, even if i think checkinstall was quite good if you had to build a package fast ...
<imbrandon> :)
<\sh> checkinstall is crap
<imbrandon> is what your looking for not in the archive?
<Fujitsu> \sh: There I have to agree with you.
<soc> i'm packaging gimp 2.3 since 2.3.12 or so
<\sh> hmmm? gimp is in the archives
<soc> would be quite sad if that wouldn't be possible anymore
<\sh> since warty
<soc> yes gim 2.2
<soc> gimp 2.2
<imbrandon> gimp surely is in the archive, you could just update the existing package with few modifications probably
<Fujitsu> Then you should update an existing package.
<Fujitsu> Not use checkinstall.
<Fujitsu> checkinstall is an absolute last resort.
<soc> gimp 2.3 are the current developer releases
<soc> mhh
<soc> ok
<\sh> easiest way to install gimp from source is ./configure --prefix=/opt/gimp2.3/ ; make ; make install and when you don't need it, just make uninstall....autofoo is very good in uninstalling
<soc> in feisty it's 2.2
<Fujitsu> So update the existing packages. It's a whole lot easier and more reliable.
<StevenK>       gimp | 2.3.16-1ubuntu1 |         gutsy | amd64, i386
<soc> yeah just saw that too
<soc> current is 2.3.17 ...
<StevenK> Well, geez, give us a break. :-)
<soc> have to check if it's installable on feisty
<\sh> soc, so what? update the package
<Fujitsu> Oh no, 0.0.1 behind.
<\sh> soc, you have to make a backport...
* StevenK still remembers the jump from 1.3 to 2.0
<imbrandon> hey hey hey , chill guys , he dident know, he does now
<\sh> soc, downling the  source package from gutsy, and pbuilding it on feisty
<\sh> with a different version string, like ~mygimp1
<StevenK> imbrandon: I am chilled. It's freezing here. :-)
<imbrandon> heh
<soc> yeah ok
<soc> is there a man available for pbuild?
<\sh> so you don't break your feisty for the future update to gutsy
<Fujitsu> StevenK: That was only a couple of years ago.
<soc> yes
<soc> currently it goes to gimp-2.3
<\sh> w.u.c/PbuilderHowTO
<\sh> w.u.c/PbuilderHowTo
<soc> works quite well ...
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Well aware.
<soc> ok found it
<soc> chapter 2
<StevenK> Hrm. I think I can recall Gimp 1.0, too.
<imbrandon> i rember Photoshop 3 also :)
* StevenK has never used Photoshop.
<imbrandon> poor poor soul
<imbrandon> i pitty you like those that have never used linux
<imbrandon> :)
<soc> mhh
<StevenK> Why would I want to use Photoshop? Gimp does everything (which, admitedly isn't much) I need.
<soc> would it be possible to just unpack the gutsy deb, change the name to gimp-2.3 and pack it?
<imbrandon> soc something like that but not really exactly
<soc> mh ok
<imbrandon> you grab the source of the deb, replace the orig tar , make a changelog entry and hope it builds
<imbrandon> thats best case
<soc> so i'll better get the source from gimp.org and build it properly with the tutorial ...
<imbrandon> no thats not what i said
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> you grab the source of the deb, replace the orig tar , make a changelog entry and hope it builds
<imbrandon> e.g very quick dirty tutoral here .....
<soc> yeah but thats the old one ...
<soc> :-)
<imbrandon> mkdir ~/new-gimp
<imbrandon> cd ~/new-gimp
<soc> i have 2.3.16 since 4 weeks already ...
<imbrandon> apt-get source gimp
<imbrandon> download the tar from gimp.org
<soc> and 2.3.17 is not in gutsy ...
<imbrandon> replace the exiting gimp tar
<soc> taht sounds cool :-)
<imbrandon> make a changelog entry
<imbrandon> debuild -us -uc
<imbrandon> pray
<soc> thx ...
<soc> ill report back :-)
* imbrandon hides in shame over that "tutorial"
<soc> is it that bad?
<imbrandon> well there are lots of other little things that would make it better
<imbrandon> but i ahve not the time and you dont seem to have the patients atm
<imbrandon> :)
<soc> mh ok
<soc> ok question: in gutsy gimp is splitted up in at least gimp, gimp-data, gimp-data-extra ...
<soc> will that be a problem?
<imbrandon> no that source package will recreate those debs
<imbrandon> when built
<soc>  Source Package: gimp, Download: [dsc]  [gimp_2.3.16.orig.tar.gz]  [gimp_2.3.16-1ubuntu2.diff.gz]   
<soc> i will have to take gimp_2.3.16.orig.tar.gz?
<imbrandon> and replace it with the gimp_2.3.17.orig.tar.gz from gimp.org
<soc> ah ok...
<soc> will i need gimp-data too?
<imbrandon> as i said it will make thst from the source package
<imbrandon> rember your jumping in head first with no documetation reading
<imbrandon> brb\
<soc> i'm just reading it!!!!
<soc> :-)
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, you log irc, right?
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: yes
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: which part were you wanting?  is it already in fabbione's logs?
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, no, see pm in a sec
<Hobbsee> hi all
<xxxxx1> hello Hobbsee 
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
* \sh is downloading regnum online...let's see how good this mmorpg is
<elkbuntu> \sh, pray tell, why are you advertising sex toys on the planet?
<StevenK> Ohhh, how the hell did I miss that!?
<\sh> elkbuntu, advertising? nope...
<StevenK> Hah
<\sh> elkbuntu, it's more a gadget for people with an ipod ,-)
<elkbuntu> \sh, it's damn well near an advertisement. either way something of such a sexual nature is *not* family-friendly
<Hobbsee> StevenK: dont get too excited, there :P
<Hobbsee> StevenK: shipping to au would take a while :P
<\sh> elkbuntu, it was on golem.de and on several "familiy friendly" pages
<StevenK> It starts with a lowercase i. It would take a blue pill for me to get excited over that.
* highvoltage takes a look at planet
<elkbuntu> \sh, if someone was to link to your blog in an Ubuntu channel, i'd ban them for adult content
<\sh> elkbuntu, please do what ever you want...
* elkbuntu drafts up a letter to the CC
<\sh> elkbuntu, please...
<\sh> elkbuntu, do...
<highvoltage> oh, I skipped that post
<\sh> elkbuntu, btw...in germany it's normal that you learn about those things in primary school...
<\sh> elkbuntu, officially by the teachers...
<elkbuntu> \sh, let me introduce you to the world *outside* germany
* Hobbsee tries to read that another way.
<elkbuntu> the part of the world that the internet reaches.
<\sh> elkbuntu, yeah, niminy-piminiy...and far away from freedom, thx
<pschulz01> Good evening all.
<imbrandon> children , stop please
<StevenK> imbrandon beat me to it.
<\sh> elkbuntu, in japan it's a funny thing as well, you can buy some other hard stuff there, even where children are around...but please do what ever you want
<imbrandon> and elkbuntu fwiw it was/is on MANY family friendly sites
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, that doesnt make it right for here.
<StevenK> Just because they stoop to that level doesn't mean we have to.
* StevenK high fives elkbuntu.
<pschulz01> I have uploaded a package to REVU.. libtprl(1|-dev)  should it just appear in the list?
<highvoltage> \sh: I think you should make a category for posts that you want to see on planet ubuntu (perhaps an ubuntu one), and then just put a feed for that on planet
<elkbuntu> i agree with highvoltage. this isnt the first time you've been inappropriate in your blogging.
<highvoltage> fwiw, what goes on planet atm seems to be a touchy issue. I think it's just appropriate to respect others until the planet policies settle down a bit.
<Hobbsee> "sexy lady from au" and all...
<persia> pschulz01: It appears after a while (I think it takes 5 or maybe 15 minutes).  If it doesn't, check your .upload file.
<\sh> elkbuntu, do me a favour, go with your morality to the CC...and ask them what's inapropriate to blog about an IT gadget...regarding it was about apple not being amused..anyways, welcome to the real world
<imbrandon> children , even if its not approperate on planet dosent mean it is in here either :)
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, yeah. i'm still hearing 'i'll never go near the Ubuntu Developer community after seeing that post' stuff :(
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: ouch :(
<RainCT> Hi
<pschulz01> persia: Ta.. I fixed 4 lintian errors. (The lintian report is rather boring now :-)
<RainCT> is it save to replace on all deb-src feisty with gutsy on sources.list?
<persia> pschulz01: boring is good :)
<highvoltage> elkbuntu: :(
<persia> RainCT: It depends on what you mean by safe.  gutsy is still rather unstable, but several people use it.
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Ugh.
* highvoltage needs to do a blog-reply to elkbuntu, it's on the todo list
<StevenK> persia: *deb-src*
<imbrandon> brb
<persia> RainCT: Nevermind.  Yes.
<persia> StevenK: Thanks - you're the best sight correction system I've every had :)
<RainCT> persia: ok thx
<StevenK> I don't know if I should be afronted or complimented. :-)
<pschulz01> persia: At the end of the 'dput REVU <package>.changes' command it says.. 'Not running dinstall'. Is this a problem?
<StevenK> pschulz01: No, that's normal.
<persia> pschulz01: No.
<pschulz01> :-) :-)
<StevenK> I can explain the history of that, if anyone cares.
<imbrandon> sure
* persia sits as part of the circle before the wise StevenK
<imbrandon> brb coffeebreak
<RainCT> persia: well, were the changes in the debdiff for dosbox ok or didn't you look at them?
<persia> RainCT: see my comment on the bug
<StevenK> Okay, so back in the dim dark ages, even before dak existed, packages used to be uploaded to ftp-master.debian.org via scp.
<RainCT> persia: yes I've seen it
<StevenK> The install script then was called dinstall, which was Perl, and buggy as hell. However, it had a -n switch that a developer could use to a degree of certainity if their package was going to be accepted or rejected.
<StevenK> So, dput has a setting where it will automatically ssh in and run dinstall -n over the just-uploaded .changes. That option has been useless for the past 2 or so years, though.
* AndyP reads the meeting minutes
<StevenK> Okay, story-time's over. Get back to work!
<StevenK> persia: And I would never describe myself as 'wise'.
<pschulz01> StevenK: Thanks :-)
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Although, just thinking about "'i'll never go near the  Ubuntu Developer community after seeing that post'
<StevenK> " - it seems very zero tolerance ...
<elkbuntu> StevenK, yeah. welcome to what it is like being in linuxchix as a known representer of the Ubuntu community
<StevenK> Wonderful.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: would you really go into a community where posts like that illustrate that they'll never take you seriously, and just have a go at you?
<elkbuntu> ^^
<pschulz01> persia: I'm still concerned that my packages aren't getting the REVU
<StevenK> But why tar all of us with the same brush?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: going "if that's how they treat others, that's probably also how they'll treat me"
<StevenK> Hobbsee: But \sh is not all of us.
<shawarma> StevenK: Which post is that quote referring to?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: because by posting to planet, you're a representative of the ubuntu community.   a high one, to have such access.
<elkbuntu> StevenK, it only takes one person to **** things up
<persia> pschulz01: Aren't getting REVU'd, or aren't getting to REVU?
<StevenK> elkbuntu: I see that. Sigh.
<StevenK> shawarma: Further up, I'm quoting elkbuntu.
<pschulz01> persia: Arn't getting to REVU.. (first step)
* shawarma looks
<persia> pschulz01: I can't really help with that.  Sorry.
<persia> Could anyone else help pschulz01 troubleshoot failed REVU uploads?
<StevenK> elkbuntu: So now those people are effectively lost to us, as it were?
<elkbuntu> StevenK, basically
<elkbuntu> StevenK, i'm doing my best to try repair damage and bridge communication, but every time something like this happens it's a kick in the face to me and my efforts
<Fujitsu> pschulz01: Which package?
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Yes.
<elkbuntu> StevenK, and at those times, i understand why they keep away
<pschulz01> Fujitsu: libtprl
<imbrandon> afk , driving home
<Fujitsu> pschulz01: You need to debuild -S (for a source-only upload)
<RainCT> persia: well I've to go, will be back in 2:30 hours and do the new debdiff then, cya
<pschulz01> Fujitsu: Oh. Thanks..
<persia> RainCT: OK.  Great.  Thanks.
<\sh> elkbuntu, I'll help you to get rid of me, ok?
<\sh> elkbuntu, you are free to do some real work for ubuntu, like packaging and doing other things..
<pschulz01> Fujitsu: Is this a replacement for 'dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot' ?
<StevenK> But that isn't what she's saying at all!
<elkbuntu> \sh, i dont want to get rid of you, i just want you to be respectful to other people's feelings
<Fujitsu> pschulz01: It's a wrapper around it, yes.
* Hobbsee isnt sure elkbuntu wants to get *rid* of you - just some of the inappropriate posts to planet
<elkbuntu> and believe it or not, \sh, what i am doing *IS* real work
<\sh> elkbuntu, I'm respectful to free speech and my right to write and speak about what I think it's important for other people to know
<elkbuntu> \sh, speak it, i dont begrudge you this, just please speak it in appropriate places
<elkbuntu> planet.ubuntu.com is *not* the appropriate place to discuss sex toys
<\sh> elkbuntu, that is what you see, sex toys? I see, Apple is sueing a company because of a good advert campaigne
<elkbuntu> \sh, i see both, but i also hear people complaining about the sexual nature of it
<\sh> elkbuntu, well, please read my comments on the blog..there is only one, who complained, and others who are against that something like this won't be published anywhere
<\sh> elkbuntu, and funny, it was a germany guy
<elkbuntu> \sh, and funny it was a guy who initially brought the inappropriateness to my attention
<pschulz01> Fujitsu: Hmm ... running debsign failed.. but I can run debsign by hand on the 'dsc' file and it work OK.
<Fujitsu> pschulz01: It will sometimes do that, due to a strange interaction with the agent.
<\sh> elkbuntu, and? he is able to talk to me or write emails or whatever, what has you to do with it? 
<Fujitsu> Anyway, I should be off to bed now.
<pschulz01> Fujitsu: before you go..
<Fujitsu> pschulz01: You may have to get a REVU admin to remove your existing upload from the server, but you can try anyway.
<pschulz01> Fujitsu: dput again?
<elkbuntu> \sh, maybe he doesnt want to be treated like you have treated me this evening?
<Fujitsu> It might fail, due to the existing files, but it might not.
<pschulz01> I'll 'up' the revision and try again.
<Fujitsu> Argh, no.
<pschulz01> no?
<Fujitsu> Should be kept at 0ubuntu1 until it is uploaded.
<\sh> elkbuntu, wait...you started to ask me about one article...I explained, that it isn't a sexual toy which I was writing about...you don't understand...
<pschulz01> maybe that's my problem.. currently at -2
<\sh> elkbuntu, please, I'm 36 years old, I think I can decide what is apropriate and what not..
<Fujitsu> That's not the problem, but you should be using -0ubuntu1
<pschulz01> Ok.
<iceman> I think the sextoy news was fun. Have you seen the video, \sh ? http://softparis.typepad.com/annelolotte/2007/02/sexy_vibes.html
<\sh> elkbuntu, and I think I can decide which is family friendly and what not, just because I have a child, and you?
<Hobbsee> \sh: you're showing that you arent, though.
<elkbuntu> \sh, you decide for you, and you alone. You do not decide for other people what they find appropriate. Do not restrict other people's freedom of expression, freedom to feel safe and freedom to feel comfortable in the Ubuntu community.
<\sh> elkbuntu, but you can?
* Hobbsee ponders her right to kill people, due to freedom of speech and action.
<pschulz01> Fujitsu: Thanks.. I'll see of that works
<Hobbsee> somehow, i think if i killed the customers from hell, i think the police would have something to say...
<elkbuntu> \sh, im not telling you to not blog it. i'm just requesting that you keep it to appropriate places to preserve everyone else's respect for, and comfort in, the community
<StevenK> And it won't be "Well done! He really was annoying, wasn't he?"
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure how showing objectionable content like that is respectful...
<\sh> Hobbsee, if you don't know what it was, wouldn't you recognize something sexual behind it?
<\sh> Hobbsee, honestly
<iceman> ... puritanism is a plague
<Hobbsee> \sh: the fact that you'd be giving one to your wife on your wedding day kinda gives it away - even if you dont know the specifics of it being a sex toy.
<Hobbsee> s/day/night/
<\sh> Hobbsee, so, it could be something else...but what makes it a sex toy? the imagination of the people who knows already what it is...
<\sh> anyways..
<iceman> \sh: if you're contemplating buying one, consider that one, too http://www.sextoyer.com/index.php/2006/08/04/24-oh-my-bod-il-est-bizard-ton-ipod
<zul_> and this is off topic
* Hobbsee sighs
<iceman> http://www.ohmibod.com/
<Hobbsee> there's no point in reasoning with you, if you're not listening.
<\sh> iceman, please stop...
<Fujitsu> pschulz01: It worked.
<Hobbsee> \sh: why?  it's his right to free speech, remember?
<\sh> iceman, it's a discussion between people who are working for one project...
<Hobbsee> after all, you dont have to care about anyone else when it's free speech you're talking about
<\sh> Hobbsee, I said, please, I don't force him to stop.
<Hobbsee> wasnt that what you were saying before?
<pschulz01> Fujitsu: Yes:-) I suppose it helps when I upload the source properly.
<Hobbsee> \sh: you know that multiple people have found it offensive, you've been warned before, yet you dont listen.  There's no point in continuing this discussion, unless you wish to further illustrate that you dont care about, nor respect other people
<\sh> Hobbsee, what I said was, that I'm able to decide what is interesting and importing to blog. and that I know what is inapropriate or not to blog about. nothing in my article was sexual not even meant
<Fujitsu> pschulz01: Yep. It also helped that you used the wrong version number to start with, or it would have failed to upload again unless you got the files removed from the server.
<PriceChild> blog != planet and how was that not sexual?
<pschulz01> Fujitsu: linda is complaining about that as well.
<JanC> let's say it wasn't explicitly sexual...
<PriceChild> its a sex toy!
<\sh> elkbuntu, Hobbsee: why didn't somebody removed my blog from the planet then?
<persia> PriceChild: Did you ever hear back from Tim about the script licenses?
<Hobbsee> \sh: because you posted on a bank holiday, where everyone was away.
<elkbuntu> \sh, may day in britain yeserday
<PriceChild> persia, I think he's still on holiday :(
<elkbuntu> or something like that
<Hobbsee> so canonical sysadmins arent at work
<PriceChild> persia, moment i get a reply I'll be bugging you for an advocation ;)
<pschulz01> Fujitsu: I have another 7 to do.. 
<persia> PriceChild: Ah.  I thought he was getting back for this weekend.  Thanks.
<Fujitsu> pschulz01: What are they all?
<\sh> Hobbsee, elkbuntu : I think, canonical DC has duty services
<persia> PriceChild: :)
<\sh> Hobbsee, elkbuntu like every good company
<PriceChild> persia, I hoped so too :) I'm "poised"
<Hobbsee> \sh: as for documented...
<pschulz01> Fujitsu: Thousand Parsec (tp) - game engine
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<Fujitsu> ANyway, I must be off to bed now.
<pschulz01> Night :-)
<\sh> ok guys, (and girls)....this was it, for ever :) 
<\sh> thx for a great time working on ubuntu
<\sh> hope you succeed...with better people then me...
<\sh> thx to elkubuntu for really pissing me off...
<JanC> \sh: maybe it's easier to just leave such articles from the planet in the future, not because you offended many community people, but because they are affraid of how outsiders will look at this (e.g. some parents checking out Edubuntu might get offended)
<JanC> and I don't think the content of that post is really worth the fight...
<\sh> JanC, I made my decision....
<\sh> JanC, I'm not a member of ubuntu anymore
<JanC> just because you don't agree & get along with some other Ubuntu members?
<Baby> \sh: you'Re leaving ubuntu just because you shouldn't puclish there about sex toys?
<Baby> publish even
<\sh> JanC, I wrote my last article...and sadly it was posted to p.u.c.
<\sh> Baby, nope
<\sh> Baby, I don't like pharisee
<Baby> \sh: I'm not sure about what you mean by "I don't like pharisee", but you mean people are being hypocrital or something about not liking that kind of posts in planet? I don't exactly understand what you mean
<highvoltage> \sh: I don't think you should leav Ubuntu, I don't think anyone wants that
<\sh> highvoltage, it's already done...
<highvoltage> \sh: why not take at least a day just to think about it?
<highvoltage> \sh: why not take at least a day just to think about it/win 33
<Baby> i guess highvoltage is right, you shouldn't just leave in the heat of the moment
<\sh> highvoltage, nope...
<leonel> hello  motus !  good  week !
<persia> Hello leonel
<leonel> ea  persia 
<highvoltage> hey leonel
<Baby> well, \sh , if you're leaving ubuntu just because of this, then it wasn't that important to you, you would have left anyway sooner or later
<persia> OK.  Enough.  There was some cultural dissonance that lead to some actions.  Read about it later.  discuss it somewhere else.  Have a good $timeofday.
<\sh> Baby, the problem is different...and no, I wouldn't leave a project, just because youngones are going bang bang
<Baby> then it seems it's me who's not understanding the problem
<\sh> Baby, are you at linuxtag with fsf?
<Baby> I'll probably be there on friday and saturday
<Baby> not sure yet, doesn't only depend on me
<\sh> Baby, then let's have a cup of coffee .)
<Baby> cool :)
<\sh> Baby, I'll be at kubuntu booth, fai booth or lpi booth depends which needs my attention :)
<Baby> If I'm finally able to go I'll let you know, I'll probably know for sure tomorrow :)
<\sh> Baby, you know how I look like :) 
<Baby> yup :)
<jsgotangco> err did i just see stephan remove himself in ubuntumembers?
<azeem> 16:00 < highvoltage> \sh: I don't think you should leav Ubuntu, I don't think anyone wants that
<azeem> 16:00 < \sh> highvoltage, it's already done...
<jsgotangco> shesshh
<jsgotangco> i just read all the logs
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: he's unhappy because there were some objections about his blog content on planet ubuntu
<jsgotangco> and the lp notification as well
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ah ok.
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: a mail has been sent to CC, you should probably have it by now
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: yeah i've read it that's why i came (i was about to sleep)
<jsgotangco> then i got an lp notify
<highvoltage> I think it's an issue that got a bit out of hand.
<afflux> Is the mail publicly visible? 
<highvoltage> Hobbsee and elkbuntu merely meant to explain to him that some people are offended by his content, and that he should consider what he posts there first. and from there it got a bit emotional and intense.
<jsgotangco> i actually saw the said blog post but didn't read much of it in detail but i thought it was a bit well...not appropriate but then other plants have all these things flying around sometimes
<elkbuntu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu
<elkbuntu> "We reserve the right to remove any feed that is inaccessible, flooding the page, or otherwise interfering with the operation of the Planet. We also have the right to move clearly offensive content or content that could trigger legal action."
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: I also mostly skipped over it, I don't read every post on planet, I just get the headings in my RSS fead reader and read what seems interesting
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: same here
<\sh> elkbuntu, since when it is approved by CC?
<\sh> elkbuntu, i never read anything about it...but that's another case...
<elkbuntu> \sh, IANAL, but if i understand how ToS statements go, you agreed to those conditions when you put your planet on blog
<elkbuntu> s/planet on blog/blog on planet/
<\sh> elkbuntu, gal, I'm longer then you on this planet...and this page is new...since the last censorship
<\sh> elkbuntu, but sorry that you don't have any clue...
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<\sh> elkbuntu, oh...sorry, I'm not bound to the CoC anymore :)
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> let's not extend this further
<\sh> so...if somebody needs some information about wine packages, you can query...
<\sh> I'm out...
<Hobbsee> \sh: you are by being in any ubuntu related channel still, i believe
<Hobbsee> Seveas: could clarify that.
<\sh> Hobbsee, for what? I'm leaving :)
<Hobbsee> bye then.
<jsgotangco> gahh
<highvoltage> *sigh*. why does \sh have to be such a girl.
<highvoltage> oops.
<elkbuntu> sorry it came to this, everyone.
<highvoltage> /clear
<Seveas> highvoltage, ;)
<elkbuntu> highvoltage, that doesnt work on us, unfortunately
<apacheLAGger> elkbuntu: what doesnt work on us?
* tonyyarusso works on inventing real-life /clear, becomes millionaire.
<Seveas> apacheLAGger, the /clear to hide the bad joke :)
<highvoltage> elkbuntu: sorry, my little joke is probably way out of place now.
<apacheLAGger> Seveas: I don't see any joke, nor do I see a /clear 
<apacheLAGger> ;-)
<persia> In order to prevent this type of traffic in this channel, I'd like to recommend that someone draft significant expansion of "clearly offensive content" such that it not be subject to cultural dissonance.  It might not work, but it's probably still worth it.
<elkbuntu> apacheLAGger, /clear doesnt /clear our clients or short-term memories ;)
<highvoltage> elkbuntu: I don't think you have to apologise for what happened. \sh didn't try hard to be accomodating.
<apacheLAGger> elkbuntu: oh, does for me :S
<elkbuntu> apacheLAGger, not when highvoltage does it though
<Seveas> tonyyarusso, the men in black have a real-life /clear
<apacheLAGger> on the other hand I don't have short-term memory anyway
<ogra-classmate> highvoltage: well, diplomacy would have been great from both sides here
<jsgotangco> ok
<elkbuntu> highvoltage, i dont apologise for speaking up, at all, i am sorry for how the event unfolded
<ogra-classmate> the topic wasnt worth the outcome at all
<ogra-classmate> for all swides
<ogra-classmate> *sides
<elkbuntu> ogra-classmate, honestly, i am disappointed at myself as well
<Baby> in fact, i think it was positive to clarify the situation instead of ignoring it and doing as if the post didn't exist
<Seveas> elkbuntu, I'm not
<Seveas> I'm disappointed at how \sh (over)reacted
<elkbuntu> Seveas, i could have been far more tactful
* Baby agrees with Seveas
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: how?
<Baby> i guess it's just the heat of the situation
<elkbuntu> Seveas, i am disappointed at that as well, but it does not negate that i started so aggressively
<highvoltage> \sh quit from ubuntu once before, I have a feeling he'll be back though
<Baby> yup, of course he'll be back :)
<ogra-classmate> he will
<elkbuntu> highvoltage, i'll be waiting for round 3
<Baby> never had any doubt about that
<elkbuntu> this time, more butterfly, less bee
<highvoltage> elkbuntu: just take it easy. remember he's human too, and also isn't perfect (and hence lacking in tact)
<Baby> what's "more butterfly" like, comparing to a bee?
<highvoltage> elkbuntu: right :)
<elkbuntu> Baby, mohammad ali
<Baby> oh, i'm not that much into boxing to be able to understand
<elkbuntu> i cant remember it word for word, but i'll guarantee someone watching can ;)
<ogra-classmate> ali compared to whom ?
<elkbuntu> <elkbuntu> this time, more butterfly, less bee
<AndyP> i'm not going to get myself into the main debate here but i'd like to point out that #ubuntu-motu is the place where new contributors first come to and maybe isn't a wise place to hold these kinds of debates. that said, i'm glad it's finished.
<Baby> what would be the place?
<AndyP> there never is a good one, i guess :/
<Hobbsee> -offtopic, i guess.
<elkbuntu> Baby, he'd been asked yesterday, he'd been asked in PM
<Hobbsee> it depends
<jsgotangco> AndyP: yeah apologies for that, unfortunately it unfolded here but is now escalated at community council so we'll talk about it first on email then to the meeting itself
<Hobbsee> because there were lots of people here who knew him a bit
<elkbuntu> err s/Baby/AndyP/
<Hobbsee> whearas he wouldnt be known at all in -offtopic
<Baby> XD
<highvoltage> perhaps get all the interested people to discuss it in -women, or somewhere logged, at least.
<elkbuntu> AndyP, the options were running out. i could have picked -devel, but i picked here.
<ivoks> anyway, we've lost a competent person
<Baby> ivoks: maybe lost more competent persons who read planet
<leonel> maybe  better  to put in planet.ubuntu.com    content related to  ubuntu and free software  asking the blogowners to filter the content with tags  for  planet.ubuntu.com
<elkbuntu> ivoks, i dont have the digits to count how many he's turned away that have told me directly he was the reason
<Baby> and, as i said, if he really leaves because of this, he would have left sooner or later
<ivoks> could be...
<leonel> because  I believe  we can  put in our blogs  whatever  we  want  
<Hobbsee> leonel: a lot is common sense.  "is this going to be interesting to other people?"
<leonel> but as part of  ubuntu  
<myriam_rs> ivoks: compteence doesn't excuse him behaving like a jerk
<leonel> I'd like  to  be part  with ubuntu rules
<leonel> Hobbsee: yes  that's the first thing to do 
<leonel> Hobbsee: common sense  
<PriceChild> leonel, what you can put in your blogs != what you should put on planet
<leonel> PriceChild:that's righr 
<leonel> right
<ivoks> i'm not entering this conversation (i didn't saw his post or anything, i'm just commenting result; not taking sides)
<leonel> I think  for planet ubuntu  get only content related  to  ubuntu  and the people with ubuntu and free software in mind
<leonel> well  just  my  2 mx pesos ..
<ivoks> leonel: i agree
<persia> Documented guidelines are good.  Common Sense isn't always shared between cultures.
<ivoks> leonel: this is why i don't post at all :)
<jsgotangco> persia: +1
<AndyP> in happier news, i just saw that fretsonfire's been uploaded to sid, that's awesome :)
<Baby> yup
<jsgotangco> ok we'll try to discuss this first on the cc list then to the meeting thanks everyone stay cool ;-)
<Baby> we uploaded it some hours ago :)
<Baby> at last, I've been trying to get that package into Debian for months!
<AndyP> Baby: oh, it was you? you rock! :)
* Baby is so happy :)
<Baby> I
<Baby> the Games Team as a whole, Mathew and me in this case
<AndyP> i think that one package alone might make some of my friends switch to linux ;)
<Baby> have you tried it in Ubuntu and see if it works properly too?
<Baby> XDDD
<Baby> yup :)
<AndyP> i haven't tried that package, no, but i've played the game on ubuntu before and it worked very well
<Baby> cool :)
<Baby> anyway it would be nice to have feedback about the package in Ubuntu :)
<AndyP> i'll have to give it a good testing after my exams have finished
<Baby> to be honest, I seriously think that at some point the Debian Games Team should become a joint effort between Debian and Ubuntu, kinda Debian/Ubuntu Games Team
<Baby> :)
<Hobbsee> Baby: that could be organised
<persia> Baby: I'd like that.  How do I join?
<Baby> right now we are using alioth's infrastructure, would that be ok for you? I can add you to the group and teach how it works
<Baby> we handle the packages in a subversion server
<persia> Baby: Sure.  Does it matter than I'm not DD (or even NM)?
<Baby> nop, not really
<Baby> I'm not DD myself either :)
<afflux> now, since the other discussion seems finished.. ;) I get some messages about some packages failing to configure (exiting with exit status 10 or 20). Any ideas about it? http://paste.stgraber.org/1189
<Baby> (yet)
* persia imagines applying fixes for games packages directly in Debian, and not needing to pray for syncs anymore
<coNP> Baby: this sounds really cool
<Baby> persia: that would be great
<persia> Baby: I'm really only active with vegastrike, torcs, teg, and uqm, but I don't mind playing with others if there's a need.  Could you post a link to some docs I could review on how to get started (not that I know of any issues that need immediate fixing beyond fixing the now messy Ubuntu uqm).
<Baby> yup :)
<Baby> http://wiki.debian.org/Games/Development
<Baby> this is the main page of the group in the wiki
<Baby> and this http://wiki.debian.org/Games/ToolsDiscuss is about the discussion we had on the tools to use
<Baby> i can help you getting used to working with svn if you need help :)
<tsmithe> man-di, poke
<afflux> oh, I think I found the problem. No more space on / ;)
<persia> Baby: It's basically just co, make desired changes, commit, right?
<Baby> yup :)
<Baby> at least I work that way
<Baby> http://wiki.debian.org/Games/SVN
<Baby> some people prefer svn-buildpackage
<Baby> but I don'T really use it myself
<persia> Baby: Thanks.  I'll subscribe to the list and read the docs.  I haven't done anything with more than a couple of the games listed on that page, but I can at least merge my changes back in.  Does one just update the changelog with the appropriate entries for the individual changes, or are there specific guidelines?
<Baby> we tend to put the changelogs like this: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-games/packages/trunk/fretsonfire/debian/changelog?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
<Baby> but there's no written rules about it
<Baby> also, you should add yourself as uploader in debian/control if you want to take care of a game more than just a simple modification once :)
<Baby> I'm writing a mail to the list about this :)
<persia> OK.  dch does that for me, so I'm happy.  You can grab my key from my LP page (same ID).  I'd really like to fix the issue that teg doesn't display the server output in Debian (somehow my last patch back got mangled during application), and I'm sure I'll find a couple others after a bit of review.
<Baby> persia: do you have an account in alioth so i can grant you access to the svn server?
<persia> Baby: No.  I'm visitng the account creation pages now.
<Baby> oki :))
<persia> Baby: persia-guest
<Baby> oki :)
<Baby> persia: added :)
<Baby> you might want to join the list, we have 3
<Baby> debian-devel-games@debian.lists.org is the main mailing list
<persia> Baby: Thanks.  It's late for me, but I'll take a look tomorrow (and subscribe to the discussion list - I'm not sure I want all the bugs - I'll look when I do a package).
<Baby> oki :)))
<Baby> the bugs and commits go to two lists in alioth
<Baby> cu tomorrow :)
<jekil> hello
<persia> hello jekil
<joejaxx> Hello All
<AndyP> hi joejaxx 
<joejaxx> :)
<bluefoxicy> Anyone know a package that lets me print midi files off as notation for play on piano
<persia> bluefoxicy: lilypond
<bluefoxicy> persia:  nods.  I was looking at abc2mid/midi2abc and abc2ps but I want 2 tracks (left and right hand piano on some pieces), trying to learn piano ;)
* bluefoxicy takes a look.
<persia> bluefoxicy: #ubuntustudio is probably a better channel for that.
<bluefoxicy> ^o.o^
<jsmidt> I would like to merge a couple of packages from debian.  I prefer the rules file written in cdbs.  Is it against Ubuntu policy to change Debian's package over to cdbs for Ubuntu?  
<shawarma> jsmidt: Yes.
<shawarma> jsmidt: We try to change as little as possible so that the next merge will be easier.
<jsmidt> okay, makes sense.
<jsmidt> thanks
<shawarma> any time
<ogra-classmate> if there would be a valid technical reason for it you could do it indeed
<ogra-classmate> but only because of a personal preference thats not really a valid reason :)
<nixternal> fsck I hate sleeping in late, I miss all of the good stuff damnit!
<jikanter> what license is canonical-written software shipped with? Creative Commons? Version?
<nixternal> what is canonical-written software? which pkg?
<LaserJock> and is that canonical or Canonical (the company)
<nixternal> good poing :)
<nixternal> mornin' LaserJock 
<zul> hey LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hola senor Rich
<nixternal> hehe
<jikanter> like a bzr checkout of the bzr source?
<Hobbsee> hi LaserJock 
<jikanter> Laserjock: or how about the the Launchpad beta? 
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee 
<LaserJock> jikanter: I'm a tad confused with what you are asking
<LaserJock> are you asking what license Canonical sponsored software is released under?
<jikanter> Laserjock: yes
<LaserJock> in which case the answer is various, I think
<LaserJock> Launchpad has not been released and so has no source available
<LaserJock> I would think bzr is GPL but that's just a guess
<jikanter> Laserjock: I thought the beta was released to a few people. Or at least that was what a launchpad page I read said..
<LaserJock> the code isn't, as far as I know
<LaserJock> there is a Launchpad Beta Testers team
<siretart> wow. lp is now closing bugs on uploads!
<jikanter> oh, ok.
<jikanter> LaserJock: thanks
<nixternal> I love when people ask questions they have only questioned..and then expect you to have the answer
<nixternal> crimsun: when are you heading to DC? Looks like I may be out in Maryland for a few days in July
* _MMA_ misses Md/D.C.
<nixternal> _MMA_: where at in MD?
<nixternal> I will be down in the sticks
<_MMA_> Well I grew up in P.G. Co. Spent tons of time in D.C. I moved to Releigh N.C. last year.
<jekil> anyone can review please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5264
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> _MMA_: St. Mary's county, so you know then ;)
<nixternal> I lived there for a few years while in the military and right after
<nixternal> I worked in PG County for a bit
<nixternal> at the power plant
* LaserJock hugs his new laptop battery
* nixternal steals it
<nixternal> did you get one of them 6 hour jobs?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ping
<LaserJock> nixternal: no
<nixternal> I want one of those
<LaserJock> mine was down to 20 min
<nixternal> my dad picked on up for his laptop..he gets over 6 hours of battery time
<nixternal> ahh
<nixternal> I am at about 2.5 hours
<LaserJock> the new one seems to go about 3-4 hrs
<nixternal> nice
<LaserJock> I got more amp hours, and it was really cheap
<LaserJock> I've been using the one that came with the laptop for ~ 3years or so
<LaserJock> then the AC adapter was going out
<LaserJock> so I decided to get a new adapter and battery
<LaserJock> I got both for $118 from comptick.com
<RainCT> one question, how can I get something into the Preferences menu?
<LaserJock> how do you mean?
* nixternal checks comptick.com
<nixternal> that is cheap
<RainCT> "Preferences" worked but now I've installed gutsy's version of the validator and it says it's wrong
<LaserJock> in the .desktop?
<RainCT> yes
<LaserJock> nixternal: they didn't have the best rating on resellerratings.com so it was a bit of a crap-shoot
<RainCT> also it says a lot of categories now (for ex: "AudioVideo", "Audio", "Video", "Development", "Education", "Game", "Graphics", "Network", "Office", "Settings", "System", "Utility", "Building", "Debugger", "IDE", "GUIDesigner", "Profiling", ...). is this ok?
<LaserJock> nixternal: looked like people mostly had problems with bad RAM sticks so I went ahead and tried it
<nixternal> cool
<nixternal> I just might give it a shot
<mwolson> could i convince someone to look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5209
<RainCT> could someone check and sponsor the debdiff from bug #117156 please?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117156 in flobopuyo "Flobopuyo has no icon for the .desktop file" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117156
<SlimG> Why does "cat testmanual" render correctly but "nroff -man testmanual | less" renders the three last chars (special chars) wrong, "file testmanual" says utf8, here's the file: http://files.iggu.org/testmanual
<SlimG> The three last chars should be "" (uppercase) and "" (lowercase)
<rollerskatejamms> Is there a backports room?
<LaserJock> is the MOTU Q&A going to be in here?
<stijn_pol> Can anyone tell me what a config.sub file does? and why does debuild -S modify it? thanks
<stijn_pol> it says: configuration validation subroutine script
<ryanakca> can a MOTU look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5307 please
<LaserJock> crimsun: are you around?
<ryanakca> (aoeui, a Dvorak optimized text editor)
<ryanakca> oops, never mind
<ryanakca> "aoeui doesnt seem to run make install. No binary is in the package." ... how do I fix this with CDBS? It's a small C app...
<ryanakca> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5307
<ryanakca> I thought having "include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk" would take care of it...
<geser> stijn_pol: it's used with config.guess to guess on with arch it is run (the build takes place). I don't know more about it.
<geser> stijn_pol: it's updated during build because a rule in debian/rules updates them to use an up-to-date version of it
<bmm> I've got a package in REVU and havn't got anything to do on it. The last few comments where in the "do this, otherwise fine" catagory and no new comments have been made.
<bmm> What is the most effective method of getting this package in Ubuntu: waiting for a new comment or poking people on this channel?
<geser> unfortunately is poking people the most effective way
<bmm> Thought so :-( But then again, it's a community process....
<LaserJock> geser: heah, you were at the MOTU Meeting weren't you?
<bmm> MOTU looking for comments or advocation on ccbuild http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5295
<geser> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> geser: can you describe the MOTU Q&A thing a bit more
<LaserJock> is it going to be the whole day
<LaserJock> or just during 0UTC and 12:00UTC
<AndyP> ryanakca: in your rules file: DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_qcomicbook := $(CURDIR)/aoeui.1
<AndyP> i don't think the qcomicbook part is right
<ryanakca> AndyP: oh... copy paste bites back
<RainCT> debdiff is placing a tmp folder in the urls, like diff -Nru /tmp/13XyBMnovD/defoma-0.11.10/debian/changelog /tmp/KkTjf7jbp4/defoma-0.11.10/debian/changelog, what's the problem?
<RainCT> (generated with  debdiff defoma_0.11.10-0.1.dsc defoma_0.11.10-0.1ubuntu1.dsc > defoma_0.11.10-0.1ubuntu1.debdiff)
<geser> LaserJock: as far as I understood it, it's should be like a MOTU school session but without a topic and questions from MOTU hopefuls (or how they are called nowadays) instead
<LaserJock> are they like 1hr long then?
<ryanakca> AndyP: fixed that, and for the no binary problem?
<geser> so there isn't much to prepare besides getting some MOTUs together to answer the questions
<RainCT> geser: MOTU Contributors, I think
<LaserJock> I'm trying to put this on Fridge
<geser> LaserJock: I don't know how long it should take
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe I should email -motu first then ;-)
<geser> and reading the log again it doesn't help
<RainCT> off-topic: where should feature requests go?
<stijn_pol> geser: Thanks!!
<AndyP> ryanakca: you can use DEB_MAKE_INSTALL_TARGET  := install INST_DIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/aoeui/usr
<AndyP> ryanakca: above your includes
<AndyP> seems to work anyway :)
<ryanakca> AndyP: above? (just for factual, why doesn't it / won't it work below?)
<Flannel> \lastlog -clear
<AndyP> ryanakca: i suspect debhelper.mk needs it to be declared above, but i could be wrong... feel free to try it below as well and see if it works :)
<ryanakca> hmmm. will do, Thanks!
<AndyP> s/as well/instead/
<RainCT> Can somebody sponsor debdiff from #49443 please?
<ryanakca> kindof offtopic question, but, how do you set up a server that you can dput to? My pbuilder is on my server, so it doesn't slow down my desktop, but I find it kind of annoying having to sftp the sources every time...
<AndyP> ryanakca: no idea, but i tend to use sshfs if i have to do a lot of transferring between boxes on my LAN
<geser> RainCT: as defoma is in main you need someone from the ubuntu-main-sponsors team (I've subscribed them to this bug)
<RainCT> geser: oh, didn't notice it. thanks
<ryanakca> AndyP: sshfs? is that a mounted network filesystem type thing, like samba?
* ryanakca googles
<ryanakca> AndyP: cool
<LaserJock> nixternal: ping
<highvoltage> hey LaserJock
<luisbg> hey LaserJock 
<luisbg> just wanted to say HI ;)
<highvoltage> just wanted to say HI ;
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> hi
<highvoltage> LaserJock.groupies FTW
<highvoltage> LaserJock: did you see the whole \sh thing?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: yes :/
<LaserJock> not terribly  surprising
<LaserJock> he's left before
<highvoltage> I remember. I think he'll be back.
<LaserJock> but it stinks that he felt like he nedded to do thta
<highvoltage> yep.
<ajmitch> hello
<LaserJock> it was a NTSFW post so I wished he had put it on his personal blog space
<highvoltage> I think it kind of sucks that someone threatens to leave every time he doesn't get his way. it's like keeping people hostage... anyway...
<highvoltage> hey ajmitch 
<ajmitch> it stinks that he up & left over one complaint, without even acknowledging that yes, it may not have been appropriate
<highvoltage> LaserJock: NTSFW?
<LaserJock> Not Safe For Work
* ajmitch just finished reading scrollback
<highvoltage> aah
<LaserJock> NSFW, I guess
<ajmitch> well, at least I got the server at work upgraded from sarge to etch last night :)
<highvoltage> ajmitch: whohoo!
<ajmitch> only minor pain involved
<highvoltage> aparently sarge > etch is quite smooth.
<ajmitch> it was, just a couple of config file changes needed to get apache & dovecot to work properly again
<LaserJock> I'm not into censorship, but if I don't want to have to worry about my boss or wife seeing planet
<LaserJock> s/if//
<highvoltage> LaserJock: that is very well said
<plugwash> i know when I upgraded from sarge-etch sendmail broke
<highvoltage> people still use sendmail? ;)
<ajmitch> highvoltage: apparantly
<plugwash> or rather it was still sort of working but my listing in the CBL was making me think it was seriously misbehaving in some way
* ajmitch was already using exim from backports, so nothing broke there
<plugwash> so it got replaced with postfix
<highvoltage> I use postfix because it's so rediculously easy. It's actually so easy on Debain or Ubuntu that it makes me feel guilty :)
<ajmitch> exim has been default on debian for awhile
<ajmitch> and I find it fairly nice, so I went with it
<highvoltage> I know a lot of people that like exim.
<highvoltage> I think I only used it on Debian Woody a few years back.
<beuno> I use exim on 2 redhat web servers that host ~150 sites and it works great  :D
* beuno ducks
<nixternal> LaserJock: pong?
<LaserJock> nixternal: got your email on MOTU Q&A
<nixternal> was it good or bad?
<LaserJock> I do see it as an Openweek kind of thing
<nixternal> ya, I understood it as such
<LaserJock> I wanted to call MOTU Open Day
<LaserJock> or MOTU Q&A Day
<LaserJock> but in the log it says two specific times
<xxxxx1> bye all
<crimsun> nixternal: late June
<crimsun> LaserJock: yes?
<RainCT> good night
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: You rang?
<Fujitsu> (I've been up ffor a while, but was reading tracebackk for fairly obvious reasons)
<nixternal> haha Fujitsu..."fairly obvious"
<mshima> I need some help, I'm trying to send launchpad a new version of a package but I don't now how to do it
<Fujitsu> mshima: You won't be able to upload directly. You need to create a debdiff (debdiff oldversion.dsc newversion.dsc) and attach it to a bug.
<mshima> ok
<mshima> attach the hole diff?
<Fujitsu> Correct.
<mshima> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-29
<hendrixski> when I run debuild -S it can't find my gpg secret key
<crimsun> pass -k0xfoo to debuild
<hendrixski> it never asks me to enter the secret key to sign the package, is there somewhere in the system I should enter it?
<ampache> debuild -k<keyid>
<hendrixski> crimsun, so like debuild -k 0xMYPUBLICKEY
<crimsun> no space
<hendrixski> ah
<Fujitsu> Like -ka7247dc5
<bmm> Hi everybody. I'm looking for comments on or advocates for ccbuild http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5295
<StevenK> Actually, -k<unique identifer> works too, like -kstevenk
<hendrixski> ah... OK... and I have to do this per package, right?  it's not a one-time deal?
<mshima> try to put "export GPGKEY=XXXXXXX" at your .bashrc
<hendrixski> mshima, I already have... that was in the instructions for setting up my gpgkey
<mshima> or "export DEBEMAIL=yourmail@server.com"
<hendrixski> ah, that's a new one
<hendrixski> so both export GPGKEY and export DEBMAIL, and then debuild -S should do the signing by itself?  and prompt me for the secret passphrase at some point?
<crimsun> I'd set the latter.
<mshima> it does here.
<ajmitch> hello crimsun 
<mshima> don't know if I did something else..
<crimsun> hello ajmitch 
<hendrixski> hhmmm still not working...
<hendrixski> oh, i spelled my name differently when I ran dh_make than it appears on my key
<mshima> the uploader email must match you gpg email
<mshima> I have posted the debdiff at a bug. And now?? I have to set it to confirmed?
<crimsun> mshima: which bug?
<marseillai> hi
<crimsun> (good gosh, the motu list is getting a lot of spam)
<marseillai> i'm wondering if someone could take a look at this for a revu : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5305 ??
<marseillai> thanks! :)
<mshima> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsynce/+bug/116626
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116626 in libsynce "WM5 (Windows Mobile 5) support" [Undecided,In progress]  
<mshima> I sent the libsynce package
<mshima> The others I'm working on
<crimsun> correct, set that one to Confirmed and unassign yourself
<crimsun> also, are those config.{guess,sub} changes necessary?
<mshima> they are upstream changes
<mshima> wrong..
<crimsun> please ask the Debian maintainer(s) if he is going to update to 0.10.0 soon
<mshima> I think they are not necessary
<mshima> I will post another diff
<mshima> ok
<mshima> I will send an email to him
<crimsun> also, in this case a debdiff will not suffice, since we need to generate the source package against an entirely new orig.tar.gz
<mshima> What do I need to do?
<crimsun> in this case, you don't generate a debdiff against 0.9.3-1.  Instead, post the entire new source package.
<crimsun> diff.gz + dsc + orig.tar.gz
<crimsun> rather, link to them in the bug report
<mshima> I should post the dsc, the diff.gz and a link to upstream source. Correct?
<crimsun> yes
<TheMuso> /c
<TheMuso> uuuugh
<mshima> thanks
<jmg> gir
<jmg> .nz archive desynched
<LaserJock> alright, MOTU Q&A added to Fridge
<ajmitch> LaserJock: congrats on being a fridge editor now :)
<jmg> hmm
<LaserJock> ajmitch: thanks, I think ;-)
<ajmitch> hehe
<crimsun> it's worth noting that there are TWO times, both of which should appear in the fridge node.
<LaserJock> crimsun: I put both times on
* ajmitch won't be around for either of them
* jmg wonders how far a ubuntu derived distro designed for moslem fundamentalists would go
<crimsun> LaserJock: in the node, not the calendar.
<LaserJock> jmg: as far as they had developers for
<LaserJock> crimsun: hmm
<crimsun> as in node/998
<LaserJock> ok, I created two nodes, one for each time
<LaserJock> I can put in, "two sessions at 0:00 UTC and 12:00UTC"
<crimsun> ok
<crimsun> joejaxx: have you done anything with the newer ndisgtk?  Perhaps looked over https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ndisgtk additionally?
<jmg>  a strange world we live in
<LaserJock> jmg: sure, it's always been strange :-)
<LaserJock> crimsun: ok, check now
<crimsun> LaserJock: excellent, thanks.
<ajmitch> there seem to have been a few duplicate bugs caused by automatix lately
<LaserJock> interesting
<mshima> crimsun: Should I subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug?
<crimsun> mshima: if not already subbed, yes.
<joejaxx> crimsun: hmm?
<crimsun> joejaxx: you're listed as having last touched ndisgtk.
<joejaxx> oh
* joejaxx just updated a desktop file
<crimsun> joejaxx: yes.  Do you intend to maintain said delta?
<ajmitch> you touched it, you keep it
<joejaxx> delta?
<mshima> no
<crimsun> joejaxx: difference from the Debian source package.
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i have touched main packages lol
<mshima> ok
<joejaxx> crimsun: oh ok
* joejaxx needs to look at the changelog
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ah, you're back
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, that I am, at work.
<LaserJock> I was afk when you pong'd
<Fujitsu> I guessed that much/.
<jmg> :(
<jmg> upgrading my vm to gutsy goatowned it
<jmg> is there a gutsy cd yet?
<RAOF> Don't think so.
<LaserJock> jmg: nope
<jmg> well, straight dist-upgrade totally owned the vm. 
<jmg> it's dropped to initramfs shell.
<jmg> how can i test bugs in gutsy if i cant dist-upgrade or install it?
<jmg> is there a gutsy vmware image somewhere, then?
<RAOF> Not that it's any help, but *my* vm dist-upgraded to gutsy just fine. :-/
<TheMuso> jmg: Chroots FTW.
<jmg> Mine said something about failed to find disk at /dev/disk/by-id/blah, dropping to initramfs shell.
<jmg> TheMuso: not if you are trying to debug a kernel issue.
<TheMuso> jmg: aaah
<jmg> I really want to fix this bug.
<jmg> RAOF: did you dist-upgrade this morning?
<RAOF> No, not this morning.
<jmg> Bling.
<jmg> I'm gonna retry.
* LaserJock finishes reading backscroll
<LaserJock> what an eventful day
<Jucato> :(
<crimsun> if you're bored, I'll fork you some alsa bugs.
<LaserJock> far from bored
<LaserJock> more feeling depressed and "demotivated"
<crimsun> aren't you really close to finishing your doctoral degree?
<RAOF> That sounds like a good reason to be depressed & "demotivated" :S
<crimsun> no, it only gets worse after that.
<crimsun> it's like the light at the end of the tunnel is just fallout.
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5314
<LaserJock> crimsun: I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel
<LaserJock> I'm working on a paper
<crimsun> beware, that light is just fallout.
<crimsun> and I don't mean it to be depressing :-)
<LaserJock> I know
<LaserJock> sometimes I see the community I love seemingly imploding, and I can't bear it. And I think, "Why do I do this to myself? Don't I have better things to do?"
<LaserJock> a volunteer community with hundreds of people from all over the world
<LaserJock> it's a heroic task keeping a ship like that on course
<LaserJock> but I press on
<LaserJock> we all press on
<LaserJock> anyway, sorry for the OT
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i wonder why there are some of the changelogs are missing
<joejaxx> on c.u.c
<LaserJock> hmm, no idea
<ajmitch> LaserJock: don't worry, I've distracted myself from ubuntu this last week or so
* AndyP hugs LaserJock 
* ajmitch should really do some more
<ajmitch> I think i've got 1 outstanding merge to upload, and a couple more in main to update
<ajmitch> and I don't think I've even touched universe merges yet
<ajmitch> only main
<ajmitch> LaserJock: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10442422
<ajmitch> that'll cheer you up a little :)
<LaserJock> yeah, it did actually
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i just went to look at the changelog for ndisgtk and it is not there
<AndyP> ryanakca: E: aoeui source: bad-version-number 1.0~alpha5-0ubuntu1
<AndyP> did you get that last time? i don't remember
<jmg> second attempt to upgrade vm to gutsy results in fail.
<jmg> Does anyone have a valid gutsy virtual machine i can download?
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5314
<persia> ryanakca: If someone has time, they'll look.  Please only announce infrequently, as most developers read the scrollback when they have been away, and will take a look then if they have time.
<ryanakca> persia: okies
<AndyP> ryanakca: did you read my comment ^^
<AndyP> i'm not a motu but i'll give my opinions
<ryanakca> hmm.
<RAOF> He's getting a lot of non-MOTU reviews :)
<ryanakca> who was it that told me I should switch to that yesterday?
* ryanakca seems to be getting more and more confused
<RAOF> That would be me.
<RAOF> I didn't know that was an incorrect version number!
<ryanakca> ah, lol.
* RAOF needs to read the dpkg manual more :)
<ryanakca> AndyP: hmmm. What do you suggest I rename the version to?
<tonyyarusso> Can you use a tilde?
<ryanakca> tonyyarusso: that's what I currently have, except lintian is complaining
* AndyP researches
<ajmitch> of course it's a possibility that you're using an old lintian that doesn't quite grasp ~
<ryanakca> 1.0~alpha5-0ubuntu1
<ajmitch> since it's a relatively recent addition
<tonyyarusso> ryanakca: What does linda say?
<ryanakca> ajmitch: ah... so. ignore?
<ryanakca> tonyyarusso: zilch
<ajmitch> ryanakca: yep, from what I know that version is valid
<RAOF> Yay!  I didn't suggest something incorrect!
<ryanakca> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/aoeui-0705281745/lintian , http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/aoeui-0705281745/linda
* ryanakca congrats RAOF 
<tonyyarusso> ryanakca: I'd be inclined to second ajmitch, but know far less, for whatever that's worth
* AndyP makes a note never to trust lintian on revu ever again :)
<persia> ryanakca: The lintian and linda on REVU are aging.  Do they report clean when you run them on your local system (or, even better, in a gutsy system or gutsy chroot)?
<ajmitch> oh, if you're looking at lintian on REVU, it's very old
<AndyP> ajmitch: what version is it running these days? dapper?
* persia is pretty sure it is dapper
<ryanakca> persia: nope. no such errors :)
<LaserJock> hmm, we should maybe think about backporting some things on tiber
<ajmitch> not sure if it was all successfully upgraded to dapper or not
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sure, go ahead
<ryanakca> hehe. or not :)
<LaserJock> lintian should  be pretty easy, right?
<ajmitch> of course
* ryanakca loves that... so would that make it half dapper and half breezy
<ryanakca> ?
<persia> ryanakca: If it's clean locally, don't worry about the warnings from REVU.
<ryanakca> persia: ok, thanks!
<LaserJock> what other packages should be updated on tiber?
<ajmitch> ryanakca: it's still running a breezy kernel, due to issues with a driver
<ryanakca> cool
<LaserJock> I think I hit something the other day but I can't remember what it was
<persia> LaserJock: If you're doing lintian, consider linda as well (just to be complete).
<LaserJock> sure
* ryanakca scratches his head and tries to remember breezy... I know I used it... hmmm
<LaserJock> but of course linda is perfect
* ajmitch remembers having breezy on his laptop at UDU, just after the archive had opened 
<LaserJock> I got started in MOTU with breezy
<ryanakca> Yes... and I think I had used Ubuntu 5.10 for a couple weeks, but then switched to CentOS
* ryanakca ducks
<ajmitch> let him be anathema
<LaserJock> heh
<ryanakca> @.@
<jsmidt> I am trying to convert a package to cdbs.  Everything works perfectly but the build isn't seeing my manpage.  Does it require a special extension with cdbs?  I use texmaker.1.
<ryanakca> jsmidt: yep, just a sec
* ryanakca checks his source...
<ryanakca> jsmidt: add "DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_aoeui := $(CURDIR)/aoeui.1" to your rules...
<jsmidt> ryanakca, thanks a lot.
<ryanakca> substitute aoeui with texmaker, and $(CURDIR)/aoeui.1 with the path... $(CURDIR)/ being the root directory of the sources...
<jsmidt> ryanakca, one last thing, does this need to go in a specific section?  Like install-texmaker::?
<ryanakca> jsmidt: nope! I just stick in after my includes :)
<jsmidt> thanks agian.
<ryanakca> np :)
<persia> jsmidt: Just to explain, the DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_texmaker :=" is a variable definition that changes the behaviour of the CDBS rules.  Internally, it ends up in the binary-arch and binary-indep rules.
<StevenK> Or you could just add 'texmaker.1' to debian/manpages
<LaserJock> that's what I was thinking but didn't want to look like an idiot ;-)
<LaserJock> hi tritium 
<tritium> hi LaserJock 
<tritium> Having a nice holiday?
<LaserJock> oh decent
<tritium> Same here.  Mostly yardwork at mom's.  :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<ajmitch> hey tritium 
<tritium> hey there jsgotangco!
<tritium> Hi ajmitch
<jsgotangco> hey dude
<ajmitch> jsgotangco!
<jsgotangco> sup
<ajmitch> work..
<jsgotangco> ahhh
* jsgotangco can't feel your pain
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: still jobless?
<jsgotangco> heh that's painful to hear
<jsgotangco> but i had a nice interview yesterday and might work
<jmg> good luck :)
<tritium> Good luck, jsgotangco!
<jsgotangco> thanks!
<LaserJock> hmm, any recommendations for an email client lighter than Thunderbird that's not mutt?
<tritium> I better go clean up...
<jsgotangco> slypheed?
<tritium> later guys
<jsgotangco> later
<persia> LaserJock: I've never used thunderbird, but I liked sylpheed during my experimentation with GUI mail clients.
<LaserJock> persia: never used ...?!?
<LaserJock> insanity ;-)
<LaserJock> well, I've got 512MB of RAM on this laptop with a 1GB swap
<Hobbsee> morning all
<jsgotangco> that's more than enough for sure
<persia> LaserJock: No.  Why?  I really didn't like the mail interface in the old netscape tools, and didn't need it.
<LaserJock> and I often get hibernation failures because it says there isn't enough swap
<Hobbsee> morning all
<jsgotangco> hi Hobbsee
<persia> LaserJock: How much swap do you use normally?  You want to have enough free swap for all your RAM when you hibernate.
<LaserJock> I think it's mostly TB and Firefox that are killing me
<Hobbsee> hi spam
<LaserJock> right now I'm at:
<LaserJock>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
<LaserJock> Mem:           440        434          5          0          6        161
<LaserJock> -/+ buffers/cache:        267        173
<LaserJock> Swap:          972        263        709
<ajmitch> LaserJock: just use mutt, you really want to :)
<persia> Surely 709 > 434.  I don't understand then.  Sorry.
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<LaserJock> persia: well, I don't get it either
<joejaxx> hello Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> :
<Hobbsee> )
<LaserJock> but if I have anything more than one FF window with a few tabs open it seems to fail
<joejaxx> crimsun: so the delta would be every change from ubuntu1?
<RAOF> Morning Hobbsee!
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I have mutt ... as a backup
<LaserJock> well stink
<LaserJock> it's annoying when ./configure throws an error when it can't find something
* ajmitch hates bugs
<LaserJock> I'm having gcompris not build with gnuchess support
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: close them, then.
<LaserJock> but I think I'm going to have to patch the autotools stuff
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: these are bugs for work
<Hobbsee> awww
<AndyP> ok i have good news and bad news about Baby's fretsonfire debian packages... good news is, they build on ubuntu... bad news is, i can't stop playing it!
<ajmitch> did an upgrade from sarge->etch, some things changed
<AndyP> anyway must get some sleep, good night folks
<Fujitsu> AndyP, No, you must keep playing.
<AndyP> Fujitsu: it's so tempting :) but it is 3:28am
* AndyP goes
<leonel> motus  good  night !
<crimsun> joejaxx: an Ubuntu delta is simply any difference from the corresponding base Debian source package.
<joejaxx> what would maintaining a delta involve?
<LaserJock> meaning, each release we have to recheck the delta and do a manual merge
<joejaxx> hmm
* joejaxx is not too good with merges :\
<ajmitch> well you'll get practice
<LaserJock> anybody know off-hand if epiphany uses less memory than FF?
<jsmidt> After the cdbs build I need to remove usr/share/texmaker/COPYING.  What cdbs command in the rules file does this?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I think they're fairly equivalent
<ajmitch> epiphany does still seem faster with lots of tabs though
<ajmitch> firefox really slows down
<ajmitch> at least here, with the extension set I have
<crimsun> jsmidt: there's no such cdbs command, but you can exclude it from being installed, or you can simply rm it.
<crimsun> I'm a bit fearful of using extensions, because I've had prior negative upgrade experiences with them.
<jsmidt> crimsun, thanks
<crimsun> hmm, more complaints about democracyplayer?  Are there pieces in main that would help alleviate?
<RAOF> No, upstream is broken.
<RAOF> As far as I can see.  Broken broken broken!
<crimsun> ok, we do seem to have pyrex 0.9.5.1a-1 in.
<crimsun> s/in//g
<RAOF> They need some unit tests.  There's some code in the release that is syntactically incorrect (and there's a patch on trac to fix it).
<ASCIIGirl> hello world! I found this --> "Fixed in RF 4082" closing a bug, can anybody tell me what RF refers to? 
<crimsun> bug 70074?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 70074 in rosetta "Add direct link downloads" [Low,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/70074
<crimsun> ASCIIGirl: if above, then I'm guessing it's a fix.  Try asking in #launchpad.
<crimsun> no idea for what "RF" is an abbreviation.
<ASCIIGirl> thanks :)
<jsmidt> crimsun, you said I can just rm the file.  Does this have to be in a certain section like install-texmaker:: or can I just put it after the includes?
<RAOF> jsmidt: Yeah, it'll need to be in a particular rule.  Let me check my specto package, which does something similar
<RAOF> jsmidt: Probably under install/texmaker::
<jsmidt> RAOF, thanks
<RAOF> You can check the specto source package as a reference, if you like.  That's got those sort of rules.
<jsmidt> RAOF, I just asked the admin to update my key in revu, about how long does that take?
<RAOF> As in, you pinged them on IRC?  Why not ask them?
<RAOF> Shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes if they do it immediately.
<crimsun> let me log in to tiber.
<crimsun> keyring sync running - should take about 20 mins.
<Fujitsu> ASCIIGirl, RF == rocketfuel == the bzr branch that the production system works from.
<ASCIIGirl> Fujitsu, oh...(btw, nice name ;)) great! thanks a lot!
<jsmidt> how do you ping the admin on irc?
<StevenK> Rocket Fuel because it's highly flammable?
<crimsun> jsmidt: you're not paying attention...
<crimsun> 23:44 < crimsun> let me log in to tiber.
<crimsun> 23:45 < crimsun> keyring sync running - should take about 20 mins.
<jsmidt> crimsun, sorry
* Fujitsu learns this stuff by reading a lot of LP stuff, like the semi-development wiki that used to be public.
<Fujitsu> Learnt quite a bit from that.
<ajmitch> jsmidt: 'admin' is just a mail alias that reaches a few of us
<jsmidt> ajmitch, okay thanks.  
<ajmitch> quite a few MOTUs are capable of resyncing the keyring now, thankfully
<ajmitch> plus it does update nightly
* ajmitch wonders when LaserJock will release a new 'behind motu'
<StevenK> I thought he just did.
<LaserJock> well, I just did one a day or two ago
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I know, but you need to give us more
<LaserJock> fine
<StevenK> LaserJock: Do a Behind MOTU on ajmitch, that'll teach him.
<LaserJock> hmm, I think that must be what he's hinting at
<ajmitch> nah, I was going to volunteer crimsun or Hobbsee 
<LaserJock> he's miffed I haven't interviewed him yet
<superm1> haha
<ajmitch> LaserJock: no, because I'd take about 2 months to reply
<joejaxx> lol
<Hobbsee> noooo!
<crimsun> I'm no longer an MOTU, remember?
<crimsun> :-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: do one on crimsun :P
<ajmitch> crimsun: can I use that defense?
<crimsun> ajmitch: psht.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: you've left too, have you?
<ajmitch> crimsun: keybuk kicked you back into motu, didn't he?
<crimsun> something like that
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/~motu <-- you even appear as 'recently approved'
<crimsun> drat.  foiled!
<StevenK> Hrm. I wonder if \sh had any parting words.
<Hobbsee> he did
<Hobbsee> they're in the logs, and they're on planet - see sharm's psot link
<crimsun> err, he's gone again?
<Hobbsee> yes
<ajmitch> crimsun: yep, left every team on launchpad this time
<ajmitch> says he's not coming back
<StevenK> He took a break, and came back when I applied for MOTU.
<StevenK> So I missed why he took a break.
<ajmitch> I can't recall why initially
<LaserJock> he was broke
<LaserJock> and had no internet
<ajmitch> though why that required him to deactivate himself from teams is beyond me
<StevenK> Attention seeking, much?
<LaserJock> 'cause that's what he does
<StevenK> Who knows.
<Hobbsee> oh that's right
<Hobbsee> i remember the first break now
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> it's in the past now
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> and now \sh is in the past now :/
<ajmitch> sadly
* elkbuntu sighs
<crimsun> I thought he just formed a wine team or something.
<ajmitch> he did
* ajmitch hugs elkbuntu 
<crimsun> my lack of reading planet.uc is showing
<ajmitch> crimsun: you don't miss much, usually
<elkbuntu> annoyingly, but not unsurprisingly, everyone is linking it to my letter last week, which is basically irrelevent in this case.
<StevenK> "Oooh, look, the evil Melissa started it all!"
<StevenK> Sigh.
<elkbuntu> s/unsurprisingly/surprisingly/
<elkbuntu> it was a sex toy for effs sake
* Hobbsee --> uni
<jmg> someone say sex toy?
<StevenK> Oh geez.
* elkbuntu bops jmg over the head
* jmg parries the bop and ripostes with a thwack
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: got much mail over it?
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, a few new comments on my blog, and a supportive 'i wish i had the guts to speak up' email
<ajmitch> not too bad then
<crimsun> psht, and to think I've only been engrossed by the black helicopter theories on "opendns vs. dell+google"
<LaserJock> hehe
<StevenK> crimsun: There are no black helicopters. </jedi>
<nixternal> did someone say black helicopters
* nixternal presses the button and watches teh lab implode
<jmg> unmarked helicopters hovering
<StevenK> nixternal: No, so you blew it up for nothing.
<jmg> they said it was just a weather baloon
<nixternal> ya, idiot me
<jsmidt> I made a bad upload to revu.  I am trying to use dcut to remove it.  I typed: dcut -m josephsmidt@gmail.com revu rm texmaker_1.5-1ubuntu2.dsc.  This doesn't seem to be working.  Any suggestion how to fix it?
<ajmitch> jsmidt: yes, let one of us remove it
<jsmidt> okay
<ajmitch> removed
<jsmidt> thanks
<LaserJock> darn
<jussi01> hello all
<jussi01> and everyones dead... sad...
<ajmitch> LaserJock: darn?
<ajmitch> jussi01: not dead, just sleeping
<jussi01> ajmitch: heh... are you in the US? what time is it there?
<superm1> ajmitch, would you be up for a revu?
<ajmitch> in NZ
<ajmitch> superm1: can't at the moment, sorry
<superm1> mkay
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, gcompris depends on gnuchess, but gnome-games now has a conflicts/replaces on gnuchess
<LaserJock> so essentially I have to rip out the gnuchess stuff from gcompris
<jussi01> superm1: nice interview on planet!
<superm1> Thanks jussi01 
<jussi01> :)
<superm1> i've been traveling all weekend (and still am) and didnt get to hear much of impressions
<jussi01> i downloaded the alpha of mythbuntu the other day...
<jussi01> nice pece of work, unfortunately I dont have any more space on my measly little 40gb hdd...
<superm1> ah. jussi01
<superm1> there are some big changes that will be coming in within the next week hopefully for it regarding the installer
<jussi01> superm1: excellent. 
<jsmidt> ajmitch, sorry to be such a problem tonight.  The ubuntu packaging website says it should take revu 5 minutes to process the upload and if it doesn't show to tell admin.  I just thought I would say the package hasn't shown up.
<jussi01> jsmidt: are you on the revu keyring?
<jsmidt> Good question. crimsun said he updated the list.  I just assumed I was on it now.
<jussi01> hmm... well I suppose its a question for ajmitch or LaserJock then....
<LaserJock> jsmidt: gimme a sec, what package is it?
<jsmidt> LaserJock,  texmaker
<ajmitch> pg: Signature made Mon 28 May 2007 11:18:42 PM EDT using DSA key ID 499C9944
<LaserJock> jsmidt: did you make sure to upload a source.changes
<ajmitch> gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found
<ajmitch> you are in the launchpad group, right?
<ajmitch> and you have your gpg key on launchpad?
<ajmitch> hm, joined 1 hour ago
<jsmidt> ajmitch, yes. LaserJock I uploaded .changes not source.changes.  If I did it wrong I can try again.
<ajmitch> you were in the team before getting the keyring synced?
* ajmitch presumes that the key got there just after the keyring was synced
<ajmitch> updating it again
<jsmidt> It happened like 5 minutes apart so I'm not sure.  I think so though since I tried to follow the manual.
<jsmidt> LaserJock, sorry I'm used to mentors.debian.net.  I don't upload source.changes there just .changes.
<LaserJock> np, once we get the get keyring synced and your old upload cleared out of there you can reupload with the source.changes
<jsmidt> okay, thanks
<ajmitch> no need to clear the old upload or reupload
<LaserJock> hmm, ok
<jsmidt> okay
<ajmitch> just move the source.changes from the rejected directory back into incoming
<LaserJock> ajmitch: did you move it or were you wanting me to do it?
<imbrandon> moins all
<RAOF> moin moin imbrandon 
* RAOF wonders if that means anything :)
<superm1> well as long as you dont take this meaning, maybe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moin_moin
<LaserJock> I'm sure you can put imbrandon on a wiki
<RAOF> Mmm, delicious.
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i'm on a few wiki's
<imbrandon> :)
<LongPointyStick> world blown up yet?
<imbrandon> browses this "python for dummies" book on his desk
<imbrandon> wonder where this came from
<RAOF> Nah, although at some point I'm gonna have to learn how to make democracyplayer properly link against firefox.
<imbrandon> firefox is a library now ?
<imbrandon> heh
<RAOF> Should I ever succeed, armageddon will be nigh.
<RAOF> Ok, libgtkmozembed.so :P
<RAOF> It's in the firefox package, though.
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> LongPointyStick: looks like you're getting some traffic :-)
<ajmitch> argh, there's now texmaker_1.5-1ubuntu2_i386.changes
<ajmitch> bad
<LaserJock> that's what I was talking about
<LongPointyStick> LaserJock: so it seems.
<jsmidt> ajmitch, LaserJock do you need me to reupload?
<ajmitch> yes, I will now
<LaserJock> LongPointyStick: I'm glad to see you have no right to feel safe, only a right to free speech ;-)
<LongPointyStick> heh
<LongPointyStick> yes
<ajmitch> make sure you *only* upload a source.changes
<LongPointyStick> i saw that, and just stopped reading
<LongPointyStick> "i'm sorry, by my rule of free speech, i now say that feeling safe is more important, so screw you.  *gunshot*"
<LongPointyStick> type idea.
<ajmitch> sigh
* imbrandon groan
<crimsun> wait, I'm missing drama?
* crimsun bounces
<LaserJock> heh
<jsmidt> ajmitch, could you clear out the .dsc so I can upload?
<ajmitch> sorry, it was waiting for my password
<LongPointyStick> crimsun: of course!  you cant miss drama!
<ajmitch> cleared again
<ajmitch> crimsun: somewhere, yes
<jsmidt> Aright ajmitch LaserJock hopefully this time I did it right. :)
<crimsun> hmm, I didn't know Mario was in rchland
<crimsun> I wonder which building he's in
<LaserJock> I find it interesting that Behind MOTU is more popular than my blog
<LaserJock> so people must find everybody else in MOTU more interesting than me ;-)
<crimsun> why else do you think I find blogging useless?
<crimsun> [useless for me, not useless for others] 
* ajmitch concurs with that
<ajmitch> I never have anything to write about, so why inflict my ramblings on others?
<LongPointyStick> LaserJock: now you just need to do another behnid MOTU
<LongPointyStick> ajmitch: is volunteering
<jsmidt> Thanks again everyone.  See you later.
<imbrandon> crimsun, fortunatelyheh
<imbrandon> err
* LongPointyStick HATES DESKTOP KEYBOARDS!!!
<ajmitch> LongPointyStick: I alreday told him I'd take > 2 months to answer any questions
<LongPointyStick> hehe
<LongPointyStick> could be fun
<imbrandon> lol
<LongPointyStick> or imbrandon coudl
<LaserJock> let's see, if I send it to him know ...
<imbrandon> errr wha?!
<ajmitch> LaserJock: *at least*
<crimsun> it could be a christmas present - ajmitch's behindmotu responses!
<ajmitch> haha
<imbrandon> hhahah
<LongPointyStick> hehe
<LaserJock> I could put ajmitch on Behind MOTU by July or August
<LaserJock> hmm, true
<ajmitch> crimsun: he could interview nixternal for behindVista
<imbrandon> bwhahaha classic
* LongPointyStick rofls
<LaserJock> ouch
<imbrandon> i thought it was funny that Ian Murdock runs XP for his "main" desktop
<imbrandon> be he has semi good reason
<ajmitch> he does?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> lemme find the interview
<imbrandon> and screenshot
<imbrandon> it was in a magasine i have so it might not be online
<imbrandon> hrm i might have to dig the magazine out of the car and see if there is a url
<imbrandon> google isnt helping
<imbrandon> but the thing was his main desktop was windows XP, his ibm laptop was ubuntu and then he had "other" linux distros in VM's on the windows XP box
<imbrandon> i was like WOW
<LaserJock> why wouldn't he have XP in a VM?
<imbrandon> he said something to the effect of "i get to know the enimy better if i use it everyday"
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> spelling much better
<imbrandon> brb i'ma grab the mag out of the car, its bugging me now
<ajmitch> heh
* jussi01 bugs the motu's to hav a look/review... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5293 (mnemosyne)
<jussi01> or advocate please god....
* jussi01 pokes everyone, wake up!!
* LongPointyStick ENOTONLINUX
<Fujitsu> LongPointyStick: Why not?
* ajmitch wonders why it doesn't build-depend on python-all-dev
<LongPointyStick> Fujitsu: i'm at uni, doign opto stuff
<Fujitsu> Why is this opto stuff not on GNU/Linux?
* StevenK_ searches and destroys the pathetically designed network his uni passes off for "student wireless Internet access"
<jussi01> ajmitch: Ive been haggling with motus over this... but it was decided python all was the way to go...
<LongPointyStick> hehe
<imbrandon> grrr i found the damn cover, but i cant find the stuff inside http://www.linuxformat.co.uk/covers/92-big.jpg
<ajmitch> hm, I see that distutils is back in the main package, not in the -dev
<StevenK_> Oh sigh, half way through the auth phase, and the wireless AP kicks me off.
<imbrandon> nice
<StevenK_> Yeah, well. Half the reason this wireless network sucks so hard is it uses TunnelGuard, and then runs a Nortel VPN client over that.
<StevenK_> And suprise, suprise, the Nortel VPN client is a complete piece of crap.
<StevenK_> The other half of the suckiness is that they are using about half the number of APs they should be, so the signal quality is crap, and students can flood others off.
<imbrandon> wow are you putting government trade secrets or something over that 
<StevenK_> I use it to run ssh. :-)
<StevenK_> Although, not at the moment, since I've been unable to connect all afternoon.
<crimsun> StevenK_: it could always be worse.  Our school blocks outgoing tcp & udp 53 for all but the primary NS.
<StevenK_> Hrm. I think ours does the same thing.
<crimsun> granted this is a case of incompetence, but whatever...
<StevenK_> I think this is a case of over-draconian policy, which makes it much much harder to fix.
<imbrandon> i dunno, teaching someone thats unwilling to listen let alone learn is very hard
<imbrandon> but then again high school teachers in the USA do it everyday ( somewhat )
<persia> imbrandon: If you really want to, make it a game, or make understanding a requirement for something they want (and have infinite patience).
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK_> I don't mind learning, or having to be taught. 
<imbrandon> yea i domt mean you , i ment the ones at crimsun's uni that dont know how to run a network
<StevenK_> Ah.
<StevenK_> Gasp! TunnelGuard is now running on my laptop.
* Fujitsu faints
<StevenK_> Which immeadiately disconnects.
<StevenK_> Bastard.
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<jussi01> lol
<crimsun> it was pretty bad for a while.  We used to have dns outages consistently, so I openvpn'd through imbrandon's home machine to get name resolution.  Major suck.
<StevenK_> Heh
<Fujitsu> I admin the network at school and work, so there're no problems there :P
<StevenK_> Oooh, the VPN connection managed to stay connected for a whole 30 seconds that time.
<imbrandon> crimsun, oh wow, was that what you were using it for ? heh
<crimsun> yep.
<StevenK_> crimsun: Heh, only name resolution?
* jussi01 begs....
<crimsun> StevenK_: well, it became everything for a spell
<crimsun> jussi01: I think at least one person was looking at it
<StevenK_> Hrm. And then, IE crashes.
<jussi01> crimsun: ok... :D
<jussi01> StevenK_: thats nothing new
<jussi01> :D
<StevenK_> I am becoming periously close to visiting the ITD offices with a large, blunt object.
<StevenK_> Actually, what I need is a way to ssh out from the wired network.
* persia suggests small, sharp objects: easier to conceal.
<Fujitsu> Tunnel through DNS.
<jussi01> hello persia
<persia> Hello jussi01
<StevenK_> Fujitsu: Which requires a client on the machines. Which neatly run Windows.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Ahahaha.
<LongPointyStick> StevenK_: usb stick?
<Fujitsu> Ahahahahahaha.
<Fujitsu> Windows.
<Fujitsu> Hahahaha
<StevenK_> If I recall correctly, the wired networks will only hand out DHCP leases to certain MAC addresses, too.
<LongPointyStick> awww
<LongPointyStick> Fujitsu: yes, sometimes we have to use it
<Fujitsu> Faking a MAC isn't hard.
<Fujitsu> LongPointyStick: I'm quite happy not using it.
<Fujitsu> Ever.
<LongPointyStick> heh
<LongPointyStick> too bad if you do science
<Fujitsu> Bsh.
<Fujitsu> *Bah
<LongPointyStick> still, there is putty installed by default on these.
<StevenK_> Of course, but it all adds up to "Do I want to spend an hour trying to get out, or just do what I have to do and go home"
<LongPointyStick> and they dnot stop USB disks from working
<persia> StevenK: You can spoof the MAC.  If you're just port-filtered (not proxied), you can usually hit an ssh server running on port 53 somewhere else.  In the worst case, use an IRC bot on some useless channel to pass commands :)
<LongPointyStick> StevenK_: that's true :P
* LongPointyStick --> food finding.
<StevenK_> persia: Do you want to help me test? :-)
* jussi01 marvels at the knowledge of motu's...
* persia doesn't have a public server available - multiple NATs back to the clients, most of which are not locally administered.  The wonders of the public infrastructure...
<StevenK_> Ah.
<imbrandon> StevenK_, want me to turn ssh on aurora on 53 along with 22 ?
<StevenK_> imbrandon: Sure.
<imbrandon> k one sec
<StevenK_> Although, RTT to the states and then back might hurt. :-)
<StevenK_> Ah hah, I just had an idea
<persia> StevenK: It'll just be reminiscient of using a modem :)
<sacater> imbrandon: are you able to vouch for me in #ubuntu-meeting at 21:00 UTC?
<StevenK_> gluck.debian.org has a sshd running on port 443.
<sacater> imbrandon: im re-applying for mem ership
<imbrandon> StevenK_, done
<imbrandon> should be listening on 53 and 22
<StevenK_> imbrandon: Just trying gluck.debian.org first
<StevenK_> Oooh
<persia> Well known ports are amusingly open :)
<imbrandon> sacater, umm 2100 , thats umm 1600 here ?
<Fujitsu> StevenK_: It's open?
<imbrandon> i /might/ be able to
<sacater> imbrandon: okies
<imbrandon> i'm normaly asleep then
<imbrandon> but i'll try to make it
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Apparently so.
<Fujitsu> Nice lag, I suppose.
<StevenK> Quite.
<StevenK> Roughly 2 seconds, give or take.
* RAOF wishes the "UniWide" wireless network actually covered his office
<Fujitsu> I've got one running on 443 in Melbourne, 4Mbps symmetric, if you want something faster.
<crimsun> See if you can type an entire paragraph before it all appears in your term.
<Fujitsu> crimsun, heh.
<imbrandon> crimsun, heheh
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Now that would be cool.
<jussi01> gah, f'**''''' konqueror
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: that'd almost be usable for me
* RAOF sympathises.  His uni computer is using KDE 3.3.2
<StevenK> And what, Debian oldstable?
<RAOF> Suse something or other, I think.
<jussi01> RAOF: why doesnt the fecker save things instead of trying to open them...
<crimsun> pfft. I know some machines at Argonne Nat'l Lab still running KDE 2.2x
<RAOF> Suse 9.2
* imbrandon rembers kde 2.x
<RAOF> jussi01: Because it's frikkin' KDE.  You can't expect it to work like you want it to :P
<jussi01> RAOF: pffft...
<imbrandon> RAOF, dont make be get hobbsee's stick after you
<jussi01> hehe
<RAOF> Don't worry, this version of xchat from 2004 is unable to properly render Hobbsee's stick of doom.  I'm immune!
<StevenK> Heh
<jussi01> lol
<ajmitch> it's harmless anyway
<imbrandon> irssi from 2007 dosent render it properly either :)
<RAOF> And my home box that I'd usually by sshing into to run irssi is currently without internet, due to the move
* jussi01 decides to ask a question which people are going to ask why??? but still... where can i get the freespire theme??......
<imbrandon> the icons ? or the theme? the icons are non-free but you can get them from everaldo
<imbrandon> the theme probably from freespire ftp
* jussi01 goes to serch...
<jussi01> search even
<StevenK> RAOF: How is the move going?
<RAOF> It's done, pretty much.
<imbrandon> jussi01, http://www.everaldo.com/crystal.html   , Crystal Clear is the icon theme {Lin,Free}spire uses
<StevenK> Except for intraweb?
<RAOF> Yeah.
<RAOF> Well, and fridge, and washing machine, and microwave, and bookcases, and wardrobe, and...
<StevenK> Hahah
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> RAOF: Waiting for the movers, or what?
<jussi01> imbrandon: thanks :d. Imparticularly after the window decorations/theme stuff... :D
<RAOF> So, perhaps a more accurate description would be "All our stuff has been moved from our old flat in Rose Bay"
<StevenK> Hrm. Kensington is a little better.
<RAOF> And we've unpacked pretty much everything that isn't books
<RAOF> Kensington is *very much* better if you're trying to get to UNSW :)
<persia> jussi01: Another alternative would be to enable the freespire deb-src repositories, and use apt-cache to search for a theme.
<StevenK> RAOF: Heh
<jussi01> persia: thats a good idea...
<RAOF> But I still need to get telstra to actually connect the phone in my name, then move the ADSL to our new place.
<StevenK> Ooh, that could take weeks.
<imbrandon> weeks!?!
<imbrandon> wow
<RAOF> Then I might ask imbrandon what would be required on my box to add it to the ubuntuwire build servers :)
* persia fondly remembers telstra's special customer service, and alternatives to prompt action
<imbrandon> RAOF, physical access to the rack :)
<StevenK> Heh
<RAOF> imbrandon: Ah, that might be somewhat difficult :)
<imbrandon> :)
* jussi01 remembers optusnet cable...oh the joy.... :D
<imbrandon> yea i need to get off my bum and finish out the buildd's i have most all arches now
* StevenK quite likes his ADSL connection.
<RAOF> Maybe I should just scrape launchpad for everyone's SSH key and add them.
<persia> imbrandon: You're getting ia64?
<imbrandon> just been busy with my google thing and ubuntustudio.org
<StevenK> RAOF: imbrandon has a script.
<imbrandon> persia, not soon
* RAOF just wants to make sure everyone has access to an AMD64 build system, so his computers work :)
<imbrandon> RAOF, i ahve a amd64 buildd now
<StevenK> Ah, purely selfish reasons. 
<RAOF> Wooohooo!
<StevenK> imbrandon: How fast?
<imbrandon> dual core 3ghz 1 gig ram
* jussi01 is still waiting for a review... :(
<imbrandon> pern-d 930
<crimsun> jussi01: it's open in my browser, but I keep getting interrupted by alsa support requests.
<imbrandon> pent*
<jussi01> crimsun: hehe, ok then :D
<StevenK> imbrandon: Right. I hate you.
<RAOF> Ah, well.  Non-MOTU's are always welcome to ask for ssh access to my amd64 box, which isn't as fast as imbrandon's :)
* jussi01 thinks he should learn how ssh works sometime...
<StevenK> My amd64 is 3GHz, but only single core.
<imbrandon> RAOF, carefull about security, its hard enough just limiting it to -motu and -core-dev , but anyhow if you want i can provide you with the script we use for accounts , its gpl'd
* StevenK has been pondering a Core2 Duo CPU.
* RAOF loves his C2D laptop
* jussi01 hugs his pentium m 1.6, poor thing...
<imbrandon> StevenK, thats what i did upgraded my home workstation to a core2 and donated the pent-d 930 to the buildd's
<StevenK> Ah.
* jussi01 would love a new pc... but being astudent...well ... :D
<RAOF> Yeah, I probably need to restrict it a bit more if I'm going to be open to all :)
<imbrandon> brb smoke break, lemme know  RAOF if you want that script
<StevenK> I'm just unsure if a Core 2 Duo will work in my mainboard.
<RAOF> imbrandon: Nah, I'll just be an "on demand" buildd :)
<StevenK> And I'd want to be sure if I'm going to fork out $400 for a processor.
<imbrandon> StevenK, i got a mobo/cpu combo for under $300
<imbrandon> barely under but under
<imbrandon> anyhow really smoke break brb
<StevenK> Considering I bought the machine last year I don't want to replace it.
<lifeless> is there xen on em64t yet ?
* RAOF checks.
<RAOF> aptitude thinks so
<RAOF> And Sid runs wonderfully in my kvm :)
<imbrandon> lifeless, yea afaik zul got it working
<imbrandon> StevenK, old computers never die, they just get repourpsed
<TheMuso> imbrandon: When is the amd64 box due to go live?
<imbrandon> in a few minutes
<TheMuso> Sweet.
<imbrandon> twas what i'm working on tonight
* TheMuso can't justify obtaining an amd64 box for a while at least. Nothing I do requires it, and now that access is possible to one, the only use for having one has completely vanished.
<jussi01> someone say a cool game in the repos.... im bored...
<imbrandon> mmmm emdebian pbuilders 
<StevenK> jussi01: blobwars
<imbrandon> jussi01, trem
<jussi01> imbrandon: i have trem... just no one to play with...
<jussi01> StevenK: whats blobwars?
<persia> jussi01: Really fun.  Install it :)
<StevenK> Frets on Fire, if you don't mind building it for Feisty from Sid.
<TheMuso> c/
<TheMuso> ug typing
<jussi01> persia: :D I should be working on genpo...but no, im procrastinating...
<StevenK> persia: I'm stuck on one level, so I've been ignoring it. :-)
<persia> StevenK: I know how that is :)
<StevenK> Heh
<persia> jussi01: No worries.  It needs licensing coordination anyway.
<jussi01> astro and quantum physics lol
<jussi01> persia: what?
<persia> jussi01: genpo
<jussi01> persia: no...licensing coordination...what?
<imbrandon> i've been meaning to try FoF, i love Guitar Hero
* StevenK has never played Guitar Hero.
<persia> jussi01: genpo claims to be "Free Open Source" software, but doesn't ship with a license, and doesn't have the necessary headers in all the source files.
* jussi01 groans.... :(
<persia> jussi01: It's not that bad.  I suspect that if you tell the author that you'll be getting it into Ubuntu, they'll be happy to fix it.  From the looks of it, it's supposed to be GPL.
<jussi01> persia: ok :D
<crimsun> that was cool. User reports bug, fixed and submitted upstream within 16 minutes.
<StevenK> Woot.
<crimsun> ah, the powah of F/LOSS.
<jussi01> nice
<StevenK> crimsun: Ah, ALSA or non ALSA?
<highvoltage> 9/win 11
<crimsun> ALSA :-)
<StevenK> Heh
<crimsun> it's moments like that that make me keep going
<StevenK> That isn't music, it's the sound of computed gotos!
<crimsun> heheh
<dholbach> hello
<persia> Good day dholbach
<dholbach> hey persia
<imbrandon> heya dholbach 
<dholbach> hey imbrandon
<Jucato> it ihahah
<Jucato> er sorry :/
<mruiz> ping dholbach 
<dholbach> mruiz: ok, what about the nautilus-image-converter merge?
<mruiz> first of all, what's its difficulty ?  :-)
<dholbach> that depends on what you know about packaging, gnome stuff, etc etc
<mruiz> I read some changes, and many of them are only about "order"
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> we try to keep the delta between debian and ubuntu low. if we have fixes or things we improve in our packages, we keep them in the merged package
<dholbach> if there's nothing worth keeping, we do a sync
<mruiz> then? What's the next step ?
<dholbach> you either send me the merged package (a diff from the debian package), so I can review it (or you tell me that we can sync it, and I'll review it too)
<mruiz> Daniel, sorry but I'm confused about merge and sync
<dholbach> syncing means: we drop all our changes and use the debian source package
<dholbach> merging means: combining the efforts that both the debian and the ubuntu maintainer made
<stgraber> morning
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Merging-and-Syncing
<dholbach> hi stgraber
<geser> the next step would be to check what Ubuntu changes are there currently and check if they are still needed
<mruiz> thanks dholbach , geser 
* persia adds that page to the list of pages to turn into guides
<mruiz> geser, How can I do it ? (to know about Ubuntu changes)
<dholbach> persia: maybe we should have an example easy merge in the recipe section too - what do you think?
<mruiz> dholbach, I think so!
<persia> dholbach: I think we just need to clean up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging to point to using MoM (or DaD) and the like, and bring it up to date.  Also, there should be a guide to the MOTU Namespace - I don't even know how to start cleaning it up :)
<persia> (oh, and add extra stuff from the School session)
<dholbach> persia: definitely, both
<mruiz> dholbach, Why don't we try with an easy merge ?
<dholbach> persia: i'll try to wrap my head around the wiki motu thing
<dholbach> persia: up until now we should maybe treat pages with the motu header as "ok, both information and location"
<persia> dholbach: Thanks.  I'm happy to help with drafting, but I don't want to impose my ideas on Namespace (except to exise "Hopeful").  Any issues if I #REDIRECT GettingStarted?
<dholbach> mruiz: I don't think this one is too hard, but if you want another one, sure - pick another one
<dholbach> persia: no, sounds good
<persia> dholbach: That's a good guideline, but I think we need some docs to feed MOTU wiki contributors.
<imbrandon> bah
<dholbach> persia: you rock
* persia is lazy.  Telling people things twice is OK.  Three times is too much work.
<mruiz> dholbach, let's move to another merge!
<mruiz> (or sync)
<dholbach> mruiz: sure, pick another one
* jussi01 is still waiting for a review... :(
<persia> jussi01:someone already said they were looking at it.  Expect comments as soon as they have enough time to commit them.
<jussi01> persia: ok... :D
<mruiz> ping dholbach 
<dholbach> mruiz: I'm still here
<mruiz> :)
<geser> mruiz: you can fetch a patch with Ubuntu changes from patches.ubuntu.com
<mruiz> geser, dholbach : what'a about https://patches.ubuntu.com/h/hostname/hostname_2.93build1.patch ?
<geser> as build1 suggest it's only a rebuild without changes
<dholbach> we should have that information at https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html#id2577623
<dholbach> or at least at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ
<geser> mruiz: the package can be synced once a new Debian package is available
<dholbach> will be synced automatically even
<mruiz> ok
<geser> mruiz: patches.ubuntu.com contains all the Ubuntu delta not only for packages need merging
<geser> so the best approach would be to pick a package which needs merging and look then at the current Ubuntu delta
<mruiz> From there: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html or http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe-manual.html ?
<geser> the first, the second need more attention when merging
<geser> if you are looking for an easy one for the start, look at mod-bt
<mruiz> geser, why these merges are in red ?
<geser> mruiz: good questions, they were a long time green. the color indicates the priority of the package
<mruiz> yes, during last week they were green!
<highvoltage> kontact
<highvoltage> sorry, wrong keyboard :)
<mruiz> :)
<imbrandon> kvm's ftw
<imbrandon> :)
<mruiz> geser, dholbach: let's merge!
<geser> mruiz: which one did you pick?
<mruiz> geser, mod-bt ;-)
<geser> have you grabbed it already from merges.ubuntu.com (MoM)?
<mruiz> no, how can I do it ?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee!
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<geser> mruiz: get http://merges.ubuntu.com/grab-merge.sh and use it in an empty dir: /path/to/grab-merge.sh mod-bt
<imbrandon> mruiz, you can get http://merges.ubuntu.com/grab-merge.sh and place it in your /usr/local/bin and chmod +x it , then grab-merge.sh mod-bt
<imbrandon> in an empty dir
<mruiz> thanks imbrandon! 
<imbrandon> geser, beat me to it :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon!!
<Hobbsee> heya people
<imbrandon> brb smoke break
<mruiz> geser, done!
<geser> you should also got a REPORT that debian/control and debian/rules have a conflict after merge (the C before them)
<mruiz> yes
<geser> the next step would be to resolve this conflicts
<geser> lets' take debian/control first
<geser> open it in an editor
<mruiz> ok
<geser> you should find there a block beginning with <<<<<< and ending with >>>>>>
<geser> that's the conflict
<mruiz> php5-cli !
<geser> ===== is the seprator, above are the ubuntu changes (here none) and below the debian changes
<geser> we keep the Debian changes, so we remove the <<<<<, ===== and >>>>> lines
<mruiz> done!
<geser> next is the conflict in debian/rules
<mruiz> the same process: preserve Debian changes? 
<geser> yes
<mruiz> done!
<geser> the next step would be to write the changelog entry
<geser> dch -e if you have devscripts installed
<mruiz> ok
<geser> you can look at the previous ubuntu entry to see what was changed
<geser> the only ubuntu change was in debian/control to remove the php4 binary package
<geser> if you now also read the last Debian entry you will see that there was done the same
<geser> so it looks like a sync candidate
<mruiz> :)
<geser> if you look at the files grab-merge downloaded you will find mod-bt_0.0.19+p4.2296-1ubuntu1.patch with the old Ubuntu delta and mod-bt_0.0.19+p4.2340-1.patch with the new Debian changes
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<geser> in this case you are lucky as both files are small and easy to read
<Hobbsee> hey DarkSun88 
<DarkSun88> Hi Hobbsee 
<geser> when you compare both files you will see that the Ubuntu changes are applied in the Debian package (and also why we kept the Debian changes when resolving the conflict)
<geser> mruiz: as we don't need to merge here the next step would be to test-build the Debian package in a gutsy pbuilder and file a sync request if it builds
<mruiz> but I have to complete the changelog before!
<geser> not needed in this case as we will use the Debian package without modifications
<geser> you need to write an changelog entry only if there are Ubuntu changes left which isn't the case here
<mruiz> geser, what's about "  * Merge from debian unstable, remaining changes:
<mruiz>     - SUMMARISE HERE
<mruiz> "
<geser> it's a template
<geser> merges.ubuntu.com can't descide if a sync or a merge is needed so it prepares a merge
<mruiz> ok
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, gutsy deb-src's on aurora now
<mruiz> geser, then I don't need to save the changelog file ?
<geser> no
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yay!
<geser> mruiz: we didn't even need to resolve the conflicts but now you know how to do it
<geser> if helps if you look at the old Ubuntu changes before starting a merge so you know which changes were introduces by Ubuntu
<mruiz> geser... I'm maintaining some Debian packages and don't touch the changelog file is strange for me
<mruiz> anyway, I have to configure pbuilder
<geser> mruiz: you would write a changelog entry if the package would still have Ubuntu changes
<mruiz> yes, I understood geser...
<mruiz> pbuilder work out of the box ?
<geser> yes, but you should add universe to the COMPONENTS before creating one
<mruiz> done!
<geser> Sorry, I've to leave now. Can someone take it over?
<imbrandon> take what over>?
<geser> helping mruiz with the sync request
<imbrandon> ahh , i can a bit, i'm in and out
<geser> and test-building the Debian package in a pbuilder
<imbrandon> mruiz, just ask away and when i see it i'll anwser ( and as more people wake we can wrangle them too )
<imbrandon> sure geser 
<mruiz> thanks geser for your time (and patience)
<mruiz> imbrandon: wait me 5 minutes, please!
<imbrandon> sure , i'm in no hurry, i'm just away from the keyboard at times
<imbrandon> because i'm at work
<mruiz> imbrandon, I did the following: 1. grab-merge 2. solve conflicts 
<imbrandon> ok , now you are ready to test build the package
<imbrandon> in pbuilder or such
<mruiz> yes
<imbrandon> have you created your gutsy pbuilder envirnment ?
<mruiz> no
* mruiz reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<imbrandon> ok good, yea follow that
<mruiz> "If you want to participate in the current release cycle, you will want to have a GutsyGibbon basetgz. This can be done using the method described in the previous section."
<beuno> mruiz: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/gs-pbuilder.html
<mruiz> thanks beuno !
<beuno> my pleasure  :D
<mruiz> imbrandon, I got this error->  E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/gusty
<Fujitsu> mruiz: You need the gutsy debootstrap package/
<imbrandon> ahh you need backports enabled OR the gutsy bootstap
<beuno> mruiz: If you want to create a pbuilder for a release newer than the one you currently have installed, you will need to manually install the debootstrap  .deb (from http://packages.ubuntu.com) from the newer release.
<mruiz> imbrandon, what version?
<mruiz>   Installed: 0.3.3.3ubuntu4 / Candidate: 0.3.3.3ubuntu4
<imbrandon> that looks like the correct version
<mruiz> yes, I'm using a special Gusty installation :-)
<Fujitsu> Oh, right. gutsy, not gusty.
<imbrandon> ahh right, the farty release
<mruiz> :)
<mruiz> damn typo!
<thp_> can somebody sync the updated version of "gpodder" from debian's unstable repository to the gutsy repository?
<bmm> Why does lintian on REVU complain about not knowing the gutsy release?
<bmm> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ccbuild-0705270835/lintian
<imbrandon> !sync | thp_ 
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sync - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<imbrandon> grr
<thp_> imbrandon: where can i look for what you wanted me to say?
<imbrandon> thp_, wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU should ahve some request a sync info
* mruiz building the gutsy pbuilder environment
<thp_> imbrandon: thanks :)
<mars_> hi
<mars_> a package i've done has been rejected from gutsy/+queue because i mess LGPL! so i've corrected it now and i have to re-ask someone to revu ....
<mars_> is there someone who could look at it : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5320 ??
<Lutin> mars_: did he *really* got rejected because of the missing LGPL thing (I mean, have you been asked to mention the LGPL ?=
<mars_> Lutin: i've received this mail http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23072/
<mars_> but perhaps i've not understand it well
<Lutin> yes, you did understand well
<mruiz> imbrandon, ""W: Failure trying to run: chroot /var/cache/pbuilder/build/4905/. mount -t proc proc /proc
<mruiz> pbuilder: debootstrap failed
<imbrandon> mruiz, are you running it in sudo ?
<DktrKranz> mruiz, did you run it as root?
<mruiz> yes, with sudo. 
<mars_> mruiz: i've allready seen this error i think you have to update your pbuilder
<mruiz> how usually I must update my gutsy system?
<imbrandon> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<mars_> euh
<mruiz> yes, I know
<mars_> mruiz: sudo pbuilder update
<mruiz> must I update my ubuntu "devel" every day?
<mars_> if you have a feisty pbuilder and want a gusty one instead you can do this sudo pbuilder update --distribution gutsy --override-config
<mars_> but i'm new to this so someone can correct me
<imbrandon> mruiz, yes , sometimes more
<mruiz> :o
* mruiz upgrading his gutsy!
* mruiz building the gutsy pbuilder environment, again!
<xxxxx1> morning guys
<jsgotangco> hi
<Hobbsee> hi xxxxx1, hi spam
<joejaxx> mruiz: hopefully it works for you
<joejaxx> i have not been able to do anything because my gutsy pbuilder is broken
<mruiz> :(
<mruiz> any upgrade ?
<Lutin> mars_: had a look at your package, seems fine, but I won't upload it, sorry. having to reupload because of the _autofoo_ licensing stuff just sounds way too picky to me
<ScottK> Good $TIME_OF_DAY all.
<dholbach> hi ScottK
<persia> hi ScottK
<ScottK> Hello dholbach and persia.
<ScottK> persia: How goes gaphor in Debian?  I duped another how come gaphor won't start bug yesterday.
<RainCT> Hi, persia
<RainCT> persia: about the desktop-file-utils patch, you mean remove the section checking if Encoding's value is OK, too?
<persia> ScottK: Cdric is working on it, but gaphas is not as easy as one might assume.  Based on our email discussion, I'm holding off on 0.9.2 until we get closer to UVF, as users would be better off with a 0.10 version.  By the way, Ubuntu doesn't currently have a supported distribution with a working gaphor (it last worked in Breezy) :)
<persia> RainCT: Yep.  If you look at the other deprecations, all the code has been removed.  I expect upstream to do that when they get your patch, but it's better practice to comment it out or #ifdef it away when patching at a distribution level.
<ScottK> persia: Right, but the sooner we get a working package, the sooner it can be backported.  You might work with Cdric on keeping version dependencies such that it can be backported at least to Feisty (Dapper's almost certainly hopeless and Edgy people can be told to upgrade if they want it).
<persia> ScottK: Cdric isn't likely to support that.  I remember issues with python-support & boa-constructor for Edgy & Feisty.  If you think backports are really important, we might want to go with 0.9.2, just because it doesn't require gaphas, and new libraries are not a good idea for backports.
<mruiz> imbrandon, I got the same problem: "W: Failure trying to run: chroot /var/cache/pbuilder/build/16442/. mount -t proc proc /proc"
<persia> mruiz: debootstrap is broken in gutsy right now.  Your best option is to debootstrap feisty from feisty, and then dist-upgrade the chroot.
<mruiz> thanks persia!
<ScottK> persia: In that case I'd suggest 0.9.2 because I do think it's important.  We've been saying in the bug wait for a new package.  Clearly there's interest.  Waiting for Gutsy is a long ways off.  You'd be a hero to a bunch of people if you'd do 0.9.2 and we backport it.
<persia> RainCT: If you have time, you might also consider looking at the rest of validate.c.  I suspect that there were other changes moving to the current version, and there are a couple FIXME labels that need new code.  If you don't have time, don't worry.  It won't hurt anything :)
<Lin> there is any know bug on wpa_supplicant / network boot scripts on feisty?
<Hobbsee> Lin: #ubuntu for support
<Lin> Hobbsee: ok. no problem.
<persia> ScottK: OK.  I'll clean up the package to have no warnings.  If I stuck it on REVU (I've already agreed with Cdric not to upload to gutsy) would you mind chasing the backports?
<mruiz> persia: then, I have to install the debootstrap package from feisty...
<persia> mruiz: Depends on your system.  If you are already running gutsy, booting temporarily from the LiveCD is probably easiest.
<ScottK> persia: If you get the package ready, I'll work the backporting.  YOU agreed not to upload to Gutsy.  How pissed off would he be if I did?
<ScottK> persia: Backporting will be easier if we upload to Gutsy first.
<persia> ScottK: I don't imagine much.  I don't think Cdric cares much about Ubuntu: I just don't like to say one thing and do another.
<mruiz> that's bad luck... I was learning how to merge :-(
<persia> ScottK: Your call.  I'll clean up the errors, and put it somewhere.
<ScottK> persia: Understand.  I don't like to do it either.  I'll avoid going via Gutsy if I can.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.  I'll try to get it up tomorrow, and send you an email with the URL.
<ScottK> persia: OK.  REVU is fine too.  I can take e-mail up to 10MB.  If you want to just make a big tarball of the whole thing, and e-mail it, that'll work too.
<persia> ScottK: I'll just email it then, if that's easier for you.
<ScottK> Doesn't matter much either way.
* persia shuts down to build a new chroot from feisty
<RainCT> persia: okay, will work on it later (gonna go in 10 minutes)
<persia> RainCT: Great.  Thanks.  Let me know if you have any questions.
<RainCT> btw, how can I see the bugs with the new kernel?
<mruiz> persia: about debootstrap... is it a bug ?
<RainCT> is is that one? linux-image-2.6.20-16-386 
<persia> RainCT: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22
<RainCT> ok thanks
<persia> mruiz: I think it's a temporary side effect of some of the merges.  It's a known issue, and is being worked on.  There may be a bug, but there may not be.
<RainCT> well, if it isn't still there I'll also open a bug report there this evening.. I can't start with the new one
<jekil> hello
<fernando> moin all
<mruiz> persia: then I must wait... :(
<persia> mruiz: You could do what I'm doing now, and boot a liveCD and make some chroots for later use :)
<siretart> bluekuja: around?
<bluekuja> siretart, yes
<siretart> bluekuja: I see that you have merged cryptsetup, and in the changelog you say that there is a patch for #85640 somewhere
<siretart> bluekuja: can you point me to the patch you took over about that?
<bluekuja> siretart, give me a minute, let me check it :)
<siretart> thanks
<bluekuja> siretart, that change was added by stgraber, in feisty
<siretart> bluekuja: still, I cannot find the change in http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/ubuntu/c/cryptsetup/cryptsetup_2:1.0.4+svn29-1ubuntu1.patch
<siretart> either it has been merged in the debian package, or it has been dropped somewhere
<siretart> ooh, you mean http://librarian.launchpad.net/7329604/bug85640.debdiff, right?
<bluekuja> yeah
<bluekuja> thats it
<bluekuja> anyway I see # Wait for udev to be ready
<siretart> well, the thing is that debian/initramfs-cryptroot-script has been moved to debian/initramfs
<bluekuja> in the diff
<Ash-Fox> pidgin has a strange configure script: checking for me pot o' gold... no
<bluekuja> added into initramfs-cryptroot-script
<siretart> which doesn't exist anymore
<persia> beuno: Hello.
<bluekuja> siretart, yeah
<siretart> bluekuja: it needs to be "ported" to debian/initramfs/cryptroot-script
<beuno> mornin' persia
<bluekuja> siretart, want me to fix it?
<bluekuja> as far as it doesnt exist anymore
<persia> beuno: Did you ever get anywhere with webboard?
<beuno> persia: my gutsy pbuilder has been bishaving and I haven't had a chance to look at it yet...
<persia> beuno: No worries.  Just checking.  Good luck with pbuilder :)
<beuno> persia: It's on my "to-do" list, so I'll get to it sooner or later
<beuno> and thanks  :D
<siretart> bluekuja: I'm fixing it in my bzr branch
<siretart> bluekuja: but you're welcome to review it!
<bluekuja> siretart, yeah of course! just point me to your bzr repo, and I'll take a look
<bluekuja> :)
<siretart> bluekuja: http://code.launchpad.net/~siretart/cryptsetup/ubuntu
<siretart> bluekuja: you can use http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~siretart/cryptsetup/ubuntu/changes for online review, my lastest revision is 8
<mruiz> thanks all... bye!
<bluekuja> siretart, not yet published, waiting for it :)
<siretart> should be now
<bluekuja> yup
<jussi01> can someone do me a small favour?
<elkbuntu> your favours are never small :
<jussi01> please please tell me a nice _simple_, wsiwyg web page maker? (for linux)gah.. I just need to make a simple stuid web page...
<jussi01> elkbuntu: rofl
<bluekuja> siretart, all seems ok. Line /sbin/udevsettle --timeout=30 has been added
<bluekuja> so patch applied
<bluekuja> siretart, thanks for point me to it. Didnt see it was lost by stgraber
<bluekuja> ;)
* jussi01 apologises... he was looking at the wrong channel... I am so out of it today, this was supposed to be #ubuntuforums... :(
<siretart> bluekuja: so the branch is okay for upload? or do you want to look at my earlier commits from today and/or send me a bundle for it? 
<bluekuja> siretart, let me check last commits too
<leonel> hello people  let's have a good day !
<mshima> Hi I need some feedback at package odccm on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5243
<bluekuja> siretart, you re-added cryptdisks.functions missing hunk too?
<bluekuja> that was deleted in the previous patch
<siretart> sorry?
<siretart> which commit?
<bluekuja> siretart,  * add missing hunk of cryptsetup.functions compared to debian package.
<siretart> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~siretart/cryptsetup/ubuntu/revision/siretart%40tauware.de-20070529132213-2c28w55jhng4czm9?start_revid=siretart%40tauware.de-20070529133648-y2cb7ldw0dd7nsy5
<bluekuja> commit 7
<siretart> yes, I noticed that hunk while debdiffing with the debian package
<bluekuja> yup
<siretart> that hunk was missing in ubuntu, and I didn't see some documentation why it was removed. so I restored the hunk
<bluekuja> siretart, yeah, in fact there is no changelog entry for that removed hunk
<siretart> do you know what's about it?
<siretart> if not, I'd prefer to stay closer to debian
<bluekuja> siretart, nope, I dont know why it has been deleted, and we got no documentation for it, so its ok to stay closer with debian.
<siretart> ok
<bluekuja> siretart, its ok for upload. ;)
<siretart> great. I'll do in a sec
<bluekuja> great
<bluekuja> :)
<hendrixski> backporting usually just implies making sure that all of the dependencies can be met on that previous release, right?
<hendrixski> because I tried the helloworld package from feisty in a dapper pbuilder... and it needed a newer libc6 which needs a newer linux-libc-dev ... and I'm just wondering if I'm going about this the wrong way of trying each one successively in pbuilder. 
<Hobbsee> it means that all the build dependancies can be met, and that hte new dependancies generated from the build-dependancies can also be met
<ScottK> Ideally the package should work too.  Just building isn't enough for a backport.
<persia> Hobbsee: Could you please define "new dependancies generated from the build-dependancies"?
<Hobbsee> persia: shlib depends
<persia> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<hendrixski> I gather that means that the dependancies of the dependancy, right?
<Hobbsee> hendrixski: a package has build-dependancies - packages it needs to build.  if all is done correctly, the package, during the build, goes "if i needed this to build, then i'll need this to run"
<Hobbsee> type idea
<hendrixski> got it
<hendrixski> so assuming that I have all the build-dependancies done, and the package sorts out all the dependancies to run... then I still need to test if it works (and possibly modify some code)?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> if you have to modify the code, then you cant get an official backport for it
<nixternal> ajmitch: very funny!
<hendrixski> ouch... the dependancies for the feisty helloworld are really low-level library things I don't know if I'm ready to modify...
<Hobbsee> if you check debian/control in the source, you wont see many depends at all there
<hendrixski> Hobbsee, official backports? are those the ones already in the repositories of that release? or is there also somewhere else I may look for them?
<Hobbsee> !backports
<ubotu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<hendrixski> ah, sweet
<persia> Does anyone have any good suggestions for keeping track of one's depth when working in chroots in chroots in chroots?
<hendrixski> persia, you can do that?? wow cool
<persia> hendrixski: If noone answers my question, I suggest you don't do that.  It's too easy to make a mistake.
<ScottK> persia: Touch a unique file name for each level and then ls /home will tell you where you are.
<StevenK> persia: Hrm. $SHLVL?
<ScottK> .. a unique file name in /home..
<persia> ScottK: Good idea.  Thanks.  None have unique homes, but I can fake it.
<hendrixski> persia, I was just imagining how tricky that would be... but having a pbuilder in a chroot may be something I could use... just was afraid to try
<persia> StevenK: Thanks.  That's exactly what I sought.
<StevenK> persia: I have a file in /etc, and my prompt is set to show it if it exists.
<StevenK> Why hack around when the shell can provide for you? :-)
<StevenK> % echo $SHLVL
<StevenK> 1
<StevenK> % pl-gutsy 
<StevenK> ...
<StevenK> # echo $SHLVL
<StevenK> 3
<persia> StevenK: I'm currently playing with chroots with lifetimes of minutes - not worth configuring that, but thanks.
<StevenK> persia: Then use $SHLVL and be happy. :-)
* persia does
<hendrixski> :-( I'm not seeing the libraries I need in the backports for dapper ... so, lemme see if I understand correctly.... either that means no modification needed, or just nobody has bothered yet and modification may be needed
<Hobbsee> the latter, probalby
<Hobbsee> and only smallish things are backported
<hendrixski> oh,,, umm, I guess libc isn't "smallish" is it?
<hendrixski> seeing as how almost everything on the system needs it
<Hobbsee> no
<StevenK> I daresay, libc will never be backported.
<Hobbsee> you dont want to backport libc, and if you're trying to, then you're not understanding what you're wanting to do
* hendrixski is not understanding
<Fujitsu> hendrixski: You need to rebuild the package in question, most probably.
* Hobbsee pokes dj
* Hobbsee pokes jdong 
<dholbach> persia: motu-wiki-sheriff ping
<ScottK> Note to self: Upload the spamassassin merge BEFORE you download a new merge into the same directory....  grumble, grumble ...
<Hobbsee> hahahha
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> and make sure you wait for the accepted mail
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Or use separate directories for each.
<hendrixski> hhhmm... I'm trying to learn by backporting the hello package from feisty onto dapper... 
<hendrixski> so I have to rebuild the package rather than just slap it into a dapper pbuilder?
<Fujitsu> hendrixski: Building it in a pbuilder is building it.
* ScottK thought I uploaded it several days ago, but all evidence is to the contrary.
<dholbach> persia: I wanted to write a wiki page about what "maintaining means" - do you think that MOTU/Documentation/MaintainingMeans might be a good place for that?
<hendrixski> Fujitsu, "pbuilder build hello####.dsc" gives me an error that it can't find the libc6 it needs... is there another command for building in pbuilder I should try?
<persia> dholbach: it will take a minute for me to see.
<dholbach> persia: I didn't start writing it yet
<dholbach> persia: just asking for an opinion and wanted to know if it'd make sense to you
<imbrandon> i woudl drop the Means off imho
<imbrandon> would*
<persia> dholbach: It doesn't make sense at first glance, but I want to become a little more familiar with MOTU/Documentation before I say for sure, and my connection is a little slow right now (running multiple simultaneous debootstraps on a LiveCD).
<imbrandon> persia, wow
<joejaxx> persia: so you are a livecd abuser as well? :)
<dholbach> persia: which place would make more sense to you?
<persia> joejaxx: Only today.
<joejaxx> persia: ah ok
<persia> dholbach: Looking at what is available, it seems the MOTU/Documentation namespace is fairly empty - containing only the root and the TODO.
<dholbach> yes, but that shouldn't stop us from adding more documentation there
<dholbach> for example I'd like to have MOTU/Documenation/Wishlist
<dholbach> where we can actively track what kind of documentation needs to be written
<dholbach> we're fairly clueless about that and explain the same things over and over again atm ;-)
<persia> dholbach: What do you think of MOTU/Packages/Maintaining, which includes a definition section and some guidelines on best practices and working with maintainers from other distributions?
<dholbach> persia: sounds good
<persia> dholbach: I don't disagree that adding more documentation would be good, but I think most things can probably fit into MOTU/Processes, MOTU/Packages, MOTU/School, MOTU/Teams, and MOTU/ itself.  These seem fairly well populated, and I'm not convinced there's enough new content for MOTU/Documentation (although I like MOTU/Documentation as a document in the MOTU/ Namespace)/
<dholbach> persia: probably yes
<persia> On the other hand, if things like HowToMerge, HowToPatch, Hopeful/Tips, etc. were to be consolidated under Documentation, that might make sense, although I'm not sure those don't belong under Packages as well.  Now I'm confused.
<dholbach> I don't think that MOTU/Packages makes much sense anyway
<dholbach> not that I'm trying to get rid of it just now, but thinking about it, there's not much sense in it
<dholbach> packages are important to us, but it's not really intuitive in a document hierarchy
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I changed http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Contributor to reflect the reservations you had during the last meeting - let me know what you think about it
<persia> dholbach: The contents of the Namespace seem scattered as well.  Perhaps Packaging should move?
<dholbach> persia: probably
<persia> dholbach: My workstation is a bit of a mess right now, but if you don't develop a master plan for MOTU Wiki Namespaces beforehand, I'll draft a candidate structure for review in a couple hours.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: looks great
<dholbach> persia: that's very cool - thanks a lot - I'm happy to review
<dholbach> Hobbsee: cool, thanks
<persia> dholbach: Thanks.
<shawarma> Is there a way to find old versions of packages in Debian? source packages, that is.
<ScottK> shawarma: Sometimes.
<shawarma> shawarma: Oh, good.
<dholbach>  http://snapshot.debian.net ?
<shawarma> dholbach: Yay! thanks.
<ScottK> shawarma: If you look in the developrtd page for the source package it'll give a link to .dsc for the current version in each supported distro (oldstable, stable, testing, unstable, and experimental if it exists) and you can use dget to get it.
<shawarma> ScottK: You should listen to dholbach. :)
<ScottK> shawarma: Searching snapshot gets you the same things as you get from the developer page for the source package AFAICT.  
<jsmidt> Where is a good place I can find packages in Debian which need to mergerged/synced in Ubuntu and vica versa. 
<shawarma> ScottK: Only the version I was looking for was not a current one (in any release)
<ScottK> Did you find it with snapshot?
<shawarma> ScottK: Yup.
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.  I'll remember that.
<dholbach> jsmidt:  http://merges.ubuntu.com ?
<jsmidt> Is that an automated system?
<shawarma> jsmidt: yes
<jsmidt> okay, I see that on the first line.  I will read up on it.  I will just ask quickly though, do all these packages need someone to go through them and merge them by hand?
<shawarma> jsmidt: Almost.
<shawarma> jsmidt: Someone may have looked at them since the page was last generated.
<shawarma> jsmidt: ..which happens at least once a day. Maybe more often.
<shawarma> jsmidt: also, in order to not duplicate work, you are encouraged to ask here first if someone is working on it. It's up to you, though.
<jsmidt> I would like to help with the mere process.  Can I upload merges into revu?
<shawarma> You *can*, but we prefer if you prepare a debdiff (between your merged package and the recent debian version) and either submit a bug or poke someone here.
<jsmidt> shawarma, okay that's what I will do.
<shawarma> jsmidt: Yay! :)
<persia> jsmidt: Take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing for best practices when generating a debdiff for a new revision.
<jsmidt> persia, thanks.  Yesterday I tried to merge a couple packages but quickly found out I was going about it the wrong way.  My excuse is I was using Ubuntu's packaging guide which I do not believe said anything about merge-o-matic.
<jsmidt> It says use revu.
<persia> jsmidt: Sorry about that.  We hope to address that during this cycle.
<persia> Does anyone know the URL to see a list of all the pages in the Wiki?
* persia found /PageSize
* dholbach just knows    ?action=LocalSiteMap
<persia> dholbach: Thanks, but that doesn't show *everything* :)
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> :-/
<persia>  /Pagesize does a good job, if the sorting is annoying.  I was hoping AllPages would work, but it appears to have been disabled.
* persia dislikes typing things beginning with / in IRC
<dholbach> persia: I added the Maintaining section to MOTU/FAQ for now
<persia> dholbach: That's probably a good place for now.  The more I look, the more I think the entire MOTU/ namespace isn't really a good idea.  There's just way too much that is shared between Universe and Main, and, as far as I can tell, increasingly little difference between the processes (excepting dev vs. core-dev).
<vijay2000> hi all i am having the following problem when i am trying to do a build of clamtk - http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23100/
<dholbach> persia: I agree
<dholbach> persia: we have some processes that differ, but that's been adressed by adding sections or linking to other pages
<persia> dholbach: I'll draft my ideas in a while, but I'd especially like to get Jordan's input on this (and he's likely asleep now), as he had some strong opinions during Edgy / Feisty about the wiki namespaces.
<dholbach> take your time
<dholbach> and thanks again
* dholbach disappears - see you later in the CC meeting
<persia> dholbach: I think sections are best - it seems like a lot of new people don't know how to distinguish between main and universe when starting to help.  At least, if I really had time to clean everything up, I'd do it that way.
<dholbach> yeah, it's really confusing
<dholbach> and that's the feedback we've been getting for quite a while
<persia> Is there an active wiki team?
<vijay2000> persia :please help what could be wrong with the patch http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23100/
<jsmidt> is there a manpage for merge-genchanges or merge-buildpackage?
<persia> vijay2000: It doesn't apply.  Try applying the patch manually (or building locally) to try to figure out what went wrong.
<vijay2000> ok i will read the how to patch wiki then 
<Hobbsee> jsmidt: dpkg-genchanges
<Hobbsee> jsmidt: and dpkg-buildpackage
<jsmidt> So do I use merge-buildpackage instead of debuild? 
<geser> jsmidt: it doesn't matter if you use merge-buildpackage or debuild if you want to create a debdiff
<Hobbsee> if you're doing a merge, yes, you should use merge-buildpacakge
<geser> also for the debdiff?
<Hobbsee> as it does special things with the version numbers with the genchanges
<Hobbsee> for normal uploads debuild is fine
<geser> the .changes file isn't in the debdiff
<Hobbsee> but for merging, if you dont do ti with -v (last ubuntu version), or whatever the syntax is, or use the merge-genchanges, or merge-buildpackage, keybuk will yell at you
<geser> I do it when I upload myself but not if I only want to create a debdiff
<persia> Hobbsee: If you're not uploading, it doesn't matter what the .changes file looks like.
<geser> and I also call dpkg-buildpackage with -v when sponsoring
<vijay2000> persia:can u tell me the link of how to patch
<Hobbsee> persia: some people dont rebuild, and just sign the changes file, btw
<persia> Hobbsee: People upload .changes files for merges?
<persia> vijay2000: There are a couple.  Search the wiki for Patch.
<Hobbsee> and .dsc's and .diff.gz's and tarballs.....
<Hobbsee> well, signing the changes file, and automatically signing the .dsc as well
<jsmidt> Using merge-buildpackage I get an error: source version without epoch 1.9.3-3ubuntu1
<jsmidt> Does anybody know what that error is from?
<geser> that's not an error just some output
* persia believes only a debdiff is sufficient for any merge.
<jsmidt> okay, then it drops down and say test "'id -u'" =0 ... [testroot]  error.
<geser> install fakeroot and add -rfakeroot to your call of merge-buildpackage or debuild
<jsmidt> gaser thanks
<jsmidt> That did it.
<jsmidt> okay, is anyone working on kile?  It looks like it worked.
<gpocentek> jsmidt: hello!
<gpocentek> jsmidt: about texmaker, I'm not sure that a merge would be really useful
<jsmidt> Hey, gpocentek 
<gpocentek> if you switch to CBDS in debian we could just sync the package
<gpocentek> CDBS even
<jsmidt> gpocentek, okay.  
<vijay2000> persia : which category in this page i need to refer to in my case https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources?highlight=%28patch%29
<persia> vijay2000: Depends on your package.  Look in debian/rules.
<vijay2000> this is what my debian/rules says http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23108/
<persia> vijay2000: Do you see patch anywhere in there?  If so, look for a similar construction in the School session.
<vijay2000> i dont see anypatch anywhere in here 
<jsmidt> Alright, assuming nobody is working on kile, can I give my debdiff to someone here?
<persia> vijay2000: How about line 4?
<ScottK> vijay2000: Are you fixing clamtk so it'll actually work?
<vijay2000> scottk: i am tying to build packages
<ScottK> OK.  AFAICT, clamtk is currently very broken because it wasn't updated for the new clamav yet.
<LaserJock> persia: I'm awake
<persia> LaserJock: Hi.  I haven't finished reviewing all the pages in the wiki yet, but I thought that abolishing the MOTU Namespace, and instead trying to merge the useful docs with those in other namespaces as part of a shared Development area might lead to less confusion for newcomers.
<persia> I know that you had been working on MOTU a lot, and wanted to hear what you thought about that, or if you thought more separation would be better.
<persia> (MOTU := MOTU/ Namespace)
<LaserJock> well, I don't think we need to abolish the namespace entirely
<LaserJock> we'll always have a few MOTU specific things, team pages, and some process pages (TODO)
<LaserJock> but ... I think it's a very good idea to put the stuff that applies to more than just MOTU in a generic namespace
<LaserJock> I believe mdz likes the idea as well
<mdz> I do
<jsmidt> Who do I submit my debdiff to in a bug report: ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
<mdz> there's plenty of documentation currently under MOTU which applies equally well to core
<LaserJock> exactly
<LaserJock>  /UbuntuDevelopment is an example
<persia> I thought there was probably a good reason, but I see lots of apparent duplication (Developers, SRU, Sponsorship, packaging practices & documentation, UVF, etc.).
<mdz> the most important thing is that it's easily reachable from UbuntuDevelopment
<LaserJock> SyncRequestProcess
<LaserJock> persia: well, mostly the reason is we started a lot of that stuff before the "outside MOTU" stuff existed really
<mdz> the naming is secondary
<ScottK> Another important point that is often lost in the current pages is when content is written from a developers' perspective (I can upload) or a contributors perspective (I need to get a deb to upload).  The process distinctions aren't always clear to the un-initiated.
<persia> LaserJock: That's what I thought.  That's part of why I was interested in trying to rationalise the namespace: to make it easier for Wiki contributors to put things in easy to find places.
<LaserJock> mdz: true, but it effects how people view and edit the documentation
<persia> ScottK: Completely agreed.
<LaserJock> mdz: do you think it'd be good idea to use something like a /Development/ namespace and put all the documentation there?
<persia> I think /Development and /Processes should be separate, personally.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: that sounds...wise.  assumign that's only for ubuntu development, and nothing else wants that namespace
<persia> Hobbsee: In the Ubuntu wiki?
<Hobbsee> yes
* persia boggles
<LaserJock> I'm afraid that keeping MOTU namespace for general docs leads to core-devs not taking as much of an interest and MOTUs writing in a MOTU-specific way
<mdz> LaserJock: I'm not particularly impressed with the namespacing in moin
<mdz> most days I think it's more trouble than it's worth
<LaserJock> I can imagine
<Hobbsee> persia: i have no idea if anything else would be doing it's development on the ubuntu wiki.  but i do know that there are some insane people, which are inclined not to make sense
* ScottK always just does title searches.  Then namespace doesn't matter much.
<ScottK> Then/The
<Hobbsee> so i was playing safe
<persia> I like it because it allows one to search for $Namespace in FindPage and see a list.
* Hobbsee has clearly been reading too much customers_suck.
<persia> Hobbsee: I can see that point, but I think that counts as content to be removed / fixed.
<Hobbsee> indeed
<LaserJock> mdz: my other question is if you think the wiki should replace the Ubuntu Developer's Reference spec
<Hobbsee> i was more saying "this should probably be checked for, first"
<geser> jsmidt: for which package is the debdiff?
<mdz> LaserJock: if the question is whether the official documentation should be maintained in the wiki, then yes, I think that's appropriate at this stage
<persia> Hobbsee: You win.  Tilix Development is there (but that's not a namespace conflict).
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> i was hoping i *wouldnt* win, really.
* Hobbsee just knows better than to expect people to act in sane ways.  see the note above abotu reading too much customers_suck.
<LaserJock> ok, well, how's this then
<LaserJock> when creating new documentation, say the Cookbook stuff that dholbach suggested, why don't we try to do it in a general way and put it in a general place
<jsmidt> geser, I filed a bug report in launchpad under kile 1.9.3-3 merge.  I subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<xxxxx1> bddebian!
<Hobbsee> jsmidt: there's something funny about kile
<Hobbsee> jsmidt: did you test build it?
<LaserJock> as time progresses the MOTU namespace will get weeded out (survival of the most used)
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi xxxxx1, geser
<persia> LaserJock: That works for me.  I expect a fair amount of MOTU to stop being useful if anyone actually cleans the dupes.  Do yuo see any issues with that?
<persia> bddebian: Hi.
<bddebian> Hi persia
<jsmidt> Hobbsee,  I did last night, but not before I did merged form merge-o-matic.  I just build debian's package, I will test the merge-o-matic one.
<ScottK> Amazing how much better the package builds if you not only get all the letters from the build-dep in debian/control, but also get them in the correct order...
<Hobbsee> kile was originally a sync, iirc, but ftbfs
<jsmidt> I wasn't aware of merge-o-matic last night.
<Hobbsee> i cant see the changleog, though.  it's broken again
<LaserJock> persia: well, I really dislike all the dups and redirects we have
<ScottK> LaserJock: Better than 404s though.
<LaserJock> persia: I created the Sandbox to try to get around some of that, but perhaps I didn't really make it's usage clear
<LaserJock> ScottK: marginally
<persia> LaserJock: For the time being, I'm thinking of adding lots more redirects.  Cleaning up after moves is frustrating and annoying.
<persia> LaserJock: I don't think anyone but you and I has ever used the sandbox.
<LaserJock> 404's on a wiki aren't as horrible as on a website, there is search functionality
<geser> jsmidt: the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team is correct to get your debdiff reviewed and uploaded
<LaserJock> what I do is this: search the url in google to see if anybody outside the wiki has linked to it
<LaserJock> then search within the wiki to see if anybody has linked to it
<persia> Still, when people have lists of pages they've worked on, and it moves right before their CC meeting, it can be a bit awkward.
<LaserJock> if there are outside links I leave it and redirect
<LaserJock> if there are just inside links I fix the links and delete the old page
<LaserJock> the only thing that should break are bookmarks
<persia> LaserJock: That destroys the history.  Maybe good for the overall health of the Wiki, but I'm not sure our current processes are robust enough to protect against that.
<LaserJock> well, you can rename and keep the history, I'm pretty sure
<persia> Another defense of having lots of redirects (why am I defending this - I don't really like redirects) is that more search terms are likely to hit the page, as it will show all the different names people have used in the past.
<LaserJock> working on the wiki becomes a gigantic headache when we have probably at least 1/3 of the pages being redirects
<LaserJock> title search for MOTU gives 192 results
<persia> LaserJock: That's a good point, but most of the redirect pages shouldn't be best practice anyway.
<LaserJock> CategoryMOTU gives 94 results
<persia> LaserJock: Most of that is just not including CategoryMOTU, at my guess.
<LaserJock> I spent one day a while ago and cleared out ~30 redirects
<LaserJock> we keep moving stuff around and the redirects keep piling up
<LaserJock> how many SRU pages do we need? ;-)
<LaserJock> </rant>
<persia> LaserJock: Four, as far sa I can tell :)
<LaserJock> so, as we seem to be on a documentation kick these days
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: 42
<LaserJock> let's try to create new documents that are useful outside of just MOTU outside of /MOTU
<persia> LaserJock: As with last time I was around, after about a month, I get really sick of answering the same questions, and want to write some docs.
<LaserJock> persia: care to send an email to -motu about this?
<persia> LaserJock: As long as you don't have a problem with the eventual death of /MOTU/, I'm more than happy to propose new merged development namespaces and targets for consolidation.  I'm less sure that I'll get to all the implementation, as it's not on my shortlist of Gutsy goals (although high on my long list of Ubuntu goals).
<LaserJock> persia: well, I don't like "eventual death of /MOTU/" ;-) but yes, cleaning out all the non-MOTU specific documentation is a good idea
<LaserJock> and rewording documentation that *should* not be MOTU-specific
<persia> LaserJock: What do you consider MOTU-specific documentation?
<LaserJock> I think we should still have a FAQ
<LaserJock> Mentoring will probably have to stay for a while
<persia> LaserJock: Why?  Core-devs can mentor (and some core-devs were listed on the MOTU/Mentoring page before NewMentoring).
<LaserJock> yes, but we have a mailing list
<LaserJock> ubuntu-motu-mentors
<LaserJock> it is good to have generic docs
<persia> LaserJock: Isn't that just the mailing list for the reception team?
<LaserJock> but at some point people will get lost in the generic
<LaserJock> I sure hope not
<LaserJock> it was supposed to be like debian-mentors
<LaserJock> a place for people to ask questions about packaging
<persia> LaserJock: Is that still the way things are done after NewMentoring?
* persia reads archives
<LaserJock> I'm not sure, but it'd be a shame if not
<persia> LaserJock: Nothing has ever been sent to ubuntu-motu-mentors@ (or at least, nothing has passed moderation).
<LaserJock> persia: sure, it hasn't been announced yet
<LaserJock> that I know of
<RainCT> Hello
* _MMA_ waves.
<persia> I still don't see why core-dev can't participate in the mentors list, if so inclined.
<persia> Hi RainCT
<persia> My (preliminary) dedicated MOTU list would be a team page, a faq, contact info, and the meeting notes.
<LaserJock> persia: it's not excluding them, in fact their are lots of core-devs that will be involved
<LaserJock> but we need to retain a space for MOTU run activities
<persia> LaserJock: That's why I thought being part of merged docs would make sense.
<persia> LaserJock: I'm just not sure what activities are exclusively MOTU.
<LaserJock> MOTU School and MOTU Mentoring are MOTU driven activites
<LaserJock> the documentation on packaging and on processes should be general
<persia> Would that include the extracted HOWTOs from the MOTU/School sessions?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> the HowTos should go to the general space
<LaserJock> but scheduling, requests, info like that should be retained, IMO
<persia> Scheduling?  Requests?  I'm not sure what you mean.
<persia> Ah, about School?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> and with the Mentoring, until a general mentoring framework for Ubuntu exists it's still a MOTU driven process
<persia> LaserJock: That makes sense.  School was one of the things that appeared to need the least cleanup, and was lowest on my list.
<LaserJock> I believe Jono did wanted to do more with a across-Ubuntu mentoring thing
<persia> I'll probably leave TODO as well (perhaps merging with Tasks), as this is not really core related.
<LaserJock> however, I feel like we need to balance putting docs where the belong (if it's not MOTU-specific it shouldn't be in /MOTU) with keeping pages concrete and relavent
<persia> LaserJock: Thanks a lot for the discussion.  I'll draft my ideas, and send to u-m@u.c for a wider audience.
<LaserJock> MOTU is still the entry point for people wanting to become Ubuntu developers
<LaserJock> so naturally we need to have more and lower-level documentation than core-dev
<persia> LaserJock: I agree with the balancing, but I'm not sure people new to Ubuntu know that MOTU is the entry point.
<LaserJock> persia: that's what I'm afraid of losing
<persia> I also think that we'll get more and better contributors by generalising recruitment, and then pointing them to help with universe first.
<LaserJock> if MOTU becomes 3 wiki pages and an IRC channel ...
<persia> LaserJock: What are you afraid of?
<LaserJock> that we'll end up gutting MOTU
<LaserJock> MOTU is a force because we have a lot of projects and documentation
<LaserJock> it is a great place for people wanting to get into packaging
<persia> No, you're right.  I'm a big fan of cleaner documentation, but there's a sense of identity with MOTU that should probably maintained.
<ScottK> And people doing Main stuff don't need a lot of this because they know already.
<LaserJock> so I don't want to say "eventually /MOTU/ will die"
<LaserJock> I'd rather say "Put docs that clearly aren't MOTU-specific in a general space"
<persia> ScottK: Agreed, but I don't think those people search the wiki for docs.
<LaserJock> so, my feeling is this:
<leonel> <persia> LaserJock: I agree with the balancing, but I'm not sure people new to Ubuntu know that MOTU is the entry point.  <---and  most  people use  packages from universe   thinking  they are safe  because  no  security  notices  
<persia> LaserJock: I can understand, and certainly don't want to damage MOTU.  I guess I'm less sure of the distinction between MOTU identity and Ubuntu Developer identity.
<LaserJock> 1) New documentation on packaging (packaging cookbook) or processes (SRU, sync request, merging) gets put in a general space
<LaserJock> 2) Old packaging and process pages get evaluated and moved/reworded as appropriate
* ScottK just took step one on my next Ubuntu project... I'm in the Debian Python Modules Team and I'm working my way through the 121 packages they have and merging back Ubuntu changes where they exist.  I just uploaded a proposed celementtree 1.0.5-9.
<LaserJock> 3) Remaining MOTU/ wiki pages will evolve with time
<AndyP> ScottK: you rock :)
<LaserJock> with a "survival of the most used" process
<ScottK> AndyP: Thanks.
<LaserJock> pages in MOTU/ that we find we don't use we can get rid of
<LaserJock> eventually as documentation outside of MOTU/ gets better we'll have less need for it
<AndyP> i'm currently wrestling with some fine details of a python-support + cdbs package... XS-Python-Version etc.
<ScottK> AndyP: Why are you not welshbyte just now?
<persia> OK.  So if I'm annoyed at the current state of the docs, and rewrite it all, where does it go?  I want to balance my desire to avoid the confusion I see (and many different links to slightly different pages (e.g. SRU)) with the preservation of the MOTU identity.  If I rewrite everything, or encourage others to merge/rewrite, and these are "new" pages, that accelerates something that may not be best for MOTU identity.
<LaserJock> but I feel like we shouldn't brute force it righ now
<LaserJock> persia: well, my feeling right now is that packaging and process documentation (which I suspect is mostly what you're interested in) should be fair game
<ScottK> persia: If you wait for consensus, you'll be arguing the same point for Gutsy + 2.  I'd say start working, lead the charge up the hill, and see if anyone follows.
<AndyP> ScottK: i switched, i felt it better to use something like my real name... more personal, less confusing for others maybe... plus i'm tired of that old nick i gave myself about 4 years ago
<persia> ScottK: Nah.  I work in Japan.  Consensus can be achieved.
<LaserJock> pages like SyncRequestProcess are great
<Hobbsee> persia: with a cluebat?  :P
<ScottK> AndyP: OK.  I'll have to try and remember who you are now then.
<LaserJock> especialy when processes in MOTU and Main don't differ much it makes a lot of sense to have just one page
<ScottK> persia: Eventually.  You may have more patience than I.
<AndyP> ScottK: don't worry, i won't go switching again (and apologies if i confused you) :)
<LaserJock> persia: so, I say, go for it with packaging and process pages
<ScottK> AndyP: No problem.  Figured it out with whois.
<LaserJock> persia: if you aren't sure about if a page should be kept in MOTU-Land email -motu or ask in here
<persia> LaserJock: OK.  I'll hit those to start (which probably doesn't need u-m@u.c review), and we can look again once there are less than 192 pages.
<ScottK> persia: And I'd suggest as you edit, focus on make if you are -dev you do this, if you are not, you do it this way so people aren't confused about what process applies to them.
<LaserJock> yes, essentially most process documentation falls into:
<LaserJock> 1) Contributor
<persia> ScottK: Two of my recent pages are MOTU/Contributing and MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue.  Do you feel these strike the right balance?
<LaserJock> 2) MOTU in Universe
<LaserJock> 3) MOTU in Main
<ScottK> persia: I'll look.
<LaserJock> 4) core-dev in Main
<LaserJock> it would be nice if we could shrink 1 and 3 into one and have
<persia> LaserJock: I don't think I understand the difference between MOTU in main and Contributor in main.
<LaserJock> there isn't for Main
<persia> Ah yes.  WE can do that.  Certainly.
<LaserJock> if our sponsorship processes are the same for Universe and Main it works out nicely
<LaserJock> I think they pretty much are
<persia> LaserJock: There're close.  I had several packages in main as a contributor, and I doubt I'm that much of an exception.  As long as the processes describe the variances, I think we're safe.
<LaserJock> essentially it comes down to "Needs Sponsorship" or "Doesn't Need Sponsorship"
<ScottK> LaserJock: Exactly.
<persia> LaserJock: I see three categories "Sponsorship Request", "Direct Action", and "Sponsoring".
<LaserJock> excellent, yes
<LaserJock> actually doing the sponsoring needs documentation as well
<LaserJock> I'm feeling like we need some "style" to differentiate the 3
<persia> LaserJock: Thanks.  As I said, I don't know that I'll get to all of this for gutsy, but perhaps gutsy+1.
<ScottK> Agreed.  I was a little lost at first with how to sponsor.
<persia> ScottK: That's why I wrote the doc :)
<LaserJock> it takes me some time to go through a doc and pick out where actually I need to read
<LaserJock> perhaps color coded headings or an icon or something
<LaserJock> just throwing out some ideas
<persia> LaserJock: I prefer medium length docs with TOC for guidance.  Does that make sense to you?
<LaserJock> kinda
<LaserJock> my problem is we have quite a bit of different categories
<LaserJock> making sure you can easily find the directions you need is important
<LaserJock> so I need to find "Sponsorship Request for Main package" or "Sponsoring Univerese package"
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  Some parallel navigation might be good.  Somethiing like a guide to contributing, a guide to doing, and a guide to sponsoring, each of which has heaps of links to the right places.
<persia> LaserJock: I'd rather have one doc that tells the contributor to use apt-cache madison packagename to decide how to subscribe.
<LaserJock> well, perhaps a well done TOC would suffice
<LaserJock> well, if the Main and Universe policies are the same then it's pretty easy
<LaserJock> like subscribe u-u-s if it's a Universe packagage and u-m-s if it's a Main package
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> I'm way late in getting to work
<LaserJock> I better head off
<persia> LaserJock: At a contributor level, most of the processes are indistinguishable.  At a developer level, there are different thresholds as to what can be done, and at a sponsor level, they're the same again.  Have a good commute.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: beat the space-time continuum, and the speed limits
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> I'll bbl
<RainCT> persia: desktop-file-validate is missing many new additional categories, may I add them?
<persia> RainCT: That would be great.  Thanks.
<nixternal> hi, I would like to be a master, I am a recovering Vista user who had this guy named Daniel, aka crumsin I think as my mentor
<nixternal> and rjfinch was the leader of the mentors, and hobc was the leader of the leaders
<RainCT> persia: when was this last updated? there are really a lot missing
<persia> RainCT: Check the changelog for the last update.  I don't remember seeing anything since I patched it for Dapper.
<sacater> LaserJock: can you vouch for me in #ubuntu-meeting tonight?
<LaserJock> if I can make the meeting
<ScottK> persia: Why would I have to join bugsquad to work in MOTU stuff?
<LaserJock> you should join ubuntu-qa
<LaserJock> but I don't see a requirement on bugsquad per se
<persia> ScottK: Last I heard, one had to be a member of BugSquad (open team) to adjust the Status in LP.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Also, people with experience handling bugs help us.
<ScottK> No, you don't.
<LaserJock> ubuntu-qa is the team
* persia was never part of ubuntu-qa
<ScottK> ubuntu-qa is needed for importance.
<LaserJock> well, whatever
<ScottK> Anyone with an LP ID can do status, AFAIK.
<LaserJock> yes
<persia> I still think MOTU contributors should work with bugs a bit before they do other things.  That can be changed if consensus disagrees.
<ScottK> persia: What I'd suggest you do is drop the bugsquad stuff and add an up front sentence or two that says people might want to get some experience with triaging before they try and fix stuff.
<persia> ScottK: bugsquad is open, and doesn't come with autosubscriptions.  It's a click away :)
<ScottK> persia: That's true, but where's the value added.  I triaged bugs for a LONG time before I joined bugsquad.
<LaserJock> we need to get people to ubuntu-qa though
<persia> RainCT: Just to be sure, you might want to check http://www.freedesktop.org/software/desktop-file-utils/ to make sure you're looking at the latest code.
<persia> LaserJock: Why do they need to be in ubuntu-qa?
<LaserJock> I had a talk with bmurray about that
<LaserJock> the Importance for one
<LaserJock> and I think in the future there might be more attached to ubuntu-qa
<LaserJock> like Release targeting
<persia> I'm all for switching the bugsquad requirement to ubuntu-qa.
<LaserJock> ubuntu-qa generally takes 20-30 bugs worked on
<persia> That also meets ScottK's pont about demonstrating triage abilities before starting with MOTU stuff, as bmurray's only requirement (currently) is evidence of 5 well triaged bugs.
<LaserJock> and you show say your best 5 to bmurray
<LaserJock> he said he's really open with it
<RainCT> persia: yea it's the same (or at least the changelog :P)
<persia> Great.  I'll bump that to ubuntu-qa.
<LaserJock> so I think we should document about ubuntu-qa and that it's a good thing to do
<persia> RainCT: That's what I thought.  You and I seem to be the only ones who care (and Mr. Untz).
<jussi01> hello peoples
<LaserJock> now I'm really going away
<persia> LaserJock: Not a recommended prerequisite?  We can always make exceptions for exceptional contributors (those who step up and start helping).
* ScottK is against more requirements to join teams.
<ScottK> Triage and packaging are two different things.  The often relate, but there shouldn't be requirements.
<persia> ScottK: These are documented requirements only.  I don't think they should be enforced in launchpad.
<persia> ScottK: We've heaps of new revisions that close a single bug.  I'd like to see more review of bugs in a package and preparation of a proper revision.  To do this, one needs to be familiar with LP.
<ScottK> persia: I'd suggest decide if you are improving the process or improving the documentation.  I wouldn't do both at the same time.
<RainCT> persia: are the categories for menu and desktop files the same?
<ScottK> persia: The problem with non-comprehensive updates can (and I think) should be handled by UUS.  
* ScottK learned about getting all the bugs I could (and looking in Debian BTS for more) on one of my first bug fix uploades from, I think geser.
<persia> RainCT: I think so.  Check the spec to be sure.
<RainCT> persia: can't find the categories on http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec . just noticed I was on menu-spec :s
<persia> ScottK: U-U-S doesn't really do that now, and I can't remember it happening more than once or twice since I started contributing basic patches.
<persia> RainCT: That matches my memory of the spec, so I'd say you are right.
<ScottK> I think it's better to document in the MOTU documentation some where to check for other bugs (including in Debian BTS) that to make someone go through hoops for ubuntu-qa.
<persia> ScottK: With regard to your experience, my memory is that you came with a specific issue you wanted fixed and significant technical expertise to fix it.  I'd consider you one of the exceptional contributors.
<ScottK> persia: If you agree with that concept, I'll update the page.
<persia> ScottK: That's part of the goal of the cleanup.  It's in MOTU/Contributing, but it should be other places as well.
<persia> ScottK: Which concept?
* hendrixski feels stupid ... 
<hendrixski> I had those backporting questions because pbuilder wouldn't build my feisty hello deb in dapper .... 
<hendrixski> turns out that was because of not enough diskspace in /dev/hda1
<RainCT> persia: ok. should the entries be in the same order as in the website (in that list where I marked Encoding as deprecated), or doesn't it matter?
<ScottK> Take out the go joinn team X stuff and say be familiar with LP and fix as many bugs as you can when you do an update.
<hendrixski> it backported perfectly
<ScottK> hendrixski: So you learned a lesson.  It's a good day when you learn something new.
<hendrixski> didn't give me the libc error I was getting last time
<persia> hendrixski: disk space is a tricky one.  One of the arguments for sbuild.  The big argument against sbuild is that it's changing now, and doesn't work :)
<RainCT> well just found another deprecated item
<hendrixski> ScottK, then every day has been a good day for me... just, frustrating at times 
<hendrixski> persia, yeah, I keep meaning to try the sbuild in schroot instead of pbuilder
* hendrixski should probably move the pbuilder to somewhere other than /dev/hda1 which is 100% full
<persia> ScottK: I don't really agree with that.  I think you've convinced me that ubuntu-qa is too hard, but I really think that joining bugsquad is easy (especially if you're given a link), and not very hard.  As for CoC and c-u-u, I think these are essential, and should not be dropped.
<ScottK> persia: Another good point is if you fix a bug in Ubuntu, if it applies to Debian, report it in the Debian BTS and link to the bug in LP. Otherwise our diff just grows.
* persia looks at the page again - I thought that was there.
<ScottK> I'm fine with CoC.
<ScottK> persia: Maybe it was.  I was reading quickly.
<ScottK> persia: Since bugsquad is an open team, what does bugsquad membership prove other than they know how to join a team in LP (u-u-c makes the same point)?
<hendrixski> aaaaahhhh... but not it gives me the libc error when i do dpkg -i hello_##.deb
<persia> ScottK: Yep.  In preparing patches it says "Check to see if the bug applies to the Debian package.  If so:" and provides instructions.  In preparing revisions, it says "While you are waiting, review the bugs that will be closed, to make sure that any that apply to Debian have Debian bugs open, and that any related Debian bugs have patches (you may need to extract individual patches from your diff to send to Debian - see Preparing Patches for hint
<ScottK> persia: That sounds good to me.
<ScottK> Sorry for missing it.
* ScottK is doing several things at once right now.
<persia> ScottK: bugsquad is just a hint to encourage people to become familiar with bugs.  c-u-u is required for REVU access.
<RainCT> persia: there are many entries I can't even find in the spec's
* hendrixski goes to get some lunch before continuing the struggle to backport hello
<persia> RainCT: Yep.  That program doesn't get much attention.  If you only fix 50%, the freedesktop team will still thank you.
<persia> ScottK: No worries.  I spent about three days reading it before posting, so I'm extra familiar :)
<ScottK> persia: Then just say they ought to have some familiarity with bug triaging.  Bugsquad is pretty meaningless.  If you make the requirement join the team, people will point, click, and say that they meet the requirement.  Make the requirement what they should know, not what team they should join.
<RainCT> persia: ok I found those, they are only for KDE. but I don't know where to get the version
<persia> ScottK: The requirement is just pointy-clicky, but it requires action, and gives the contributor an extra icon for their LP account (which I think is an incentive).  The comment about bug management guidelines is in "First Steps".
<persia> RainCT: The KDE .desktop specs?
<RainCT> persia: nevermind, found it
<persia> RainCT: OK.  Let me know if you get stuck - I'm happy to search if you need it.
<ScottK> persia: All of which convinces me even more it shouldn't be a requirement.
<persia> ScottK: Maybe.  I'll see if I can find the logs where the suggestion was made, to give you some context.
<ScottK> OK.
<RainCT> persia:  how can I fix this?         /* FIXME global variable cruft */  fatal_error_occurred = FALSE;
<mathiaz> I'm trying to follow the Pbuilder how-to from wiki.ubuntu.com. I was wondering if sudo is always needed when using pbuilder ?
<mathiaz> Can I setup a pbuilder environement under my home directory and not use sudo to build packages with pbuilder ?
<Hobbsee> you dont have to put in sudo - but it will usually ask for a root p/w anyway, iirc
<ScottK> mathiaz: Look at the pbuilder scripts here http://revu.tauware.de/~laserjock/ for what might be an easier approach.
<persia> ScottK: I'm not finding it.  Sorry.  My memory (probably faulty at time time of day) suspects stevenk and hobbsee of participating in the discussion.
<persia> RainCT: Where are you finding that?
<ScottK> persia: No problem.  In any case I'm unlikely to be convinced that pointy-clicky join an open team is a good requirement.
<LaserJock> persia: well, we don't really have prerequisites right now
<persia> RainCT: Nevermind, I found it.  I think that's a hard one.  Don't worry about it.
<LaserJock> and currently a person can do a whole lot of bug work without having to change the Importance
<LaserJock> so I have a hard time making it mandatory
<LaserJock> but it should surely be documented as a best practice and "If you want to be able to do X then you need to be a member of ubuntu-qa"
<RainCT> persia: Okay, patch uploaded
<persia> ScottK, LaserJock:  Essentially, I don't know a better way to strongly encourage people to work with bugs before working on other things.  ubuntu-qa is probably too stringent, but I'm not sure the recommendation in First Steps won't be ignored.
<ScottK> persia: Adding the requirement to join an open team doesn't solve that problem.  I agree it's a problem.
<persia> LaserJock: Actually, we do have a prerequisite of being a member of Contributors of Packages to Ubuntu Universe in order to use REVU.  I think the CoC threshold is also important.
<ScottK> C-U-U shouldn't be required for doing fixes and merges.  Only for new packages.
<persia> ScottK: I'd rather not drop the requirement until we find a better solution to the problem.  I think this may help, even if it's only a thin barrier to entry.
<ScottK> I agree that CoC is important.
<persia> ScottK: See the requirements for each group on the page.
<LaserJock> persia: for MOTUship  though the only prerequisite I know of is Ubuntu Membership
<ScottK> persia: I agree it's a problem, but your solution isn't a solution at all.  
<persia> LaserJock: Yep.  One can probably even become a MOTU without doing anything on that page, if one is sufficiently active with library transitions, merges/syncs, etc.  I just think those are the things that we would most appreciate contributions about.
<Hobbsee> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
* ScottK would say that it's up to the mentors (whether formally assigned or on a pickup basis) to tell people to go learn more about bug managment.
* persia is tired of telling people "go learn more about bug management"
<ScottK> persia: OK.  But don't say required if it's not required then.
<LaserJock> persia: that's why "best practice" and "good idea" are what I'd call it
* ScottK agrees with LaserJock
<persia> LaserJock: Maybe "Prerequisites" isn't the right word.  If you have another that fits well, I don't have any issues with changing it.
<persia> Perhaps "Suggested Prerequisites"?
<alfredoj69> hello everybody
<ScottK> hello alfredoj69
<ScottK> persia: Some of those really are prerequisites (note that the word means required, so suggested pre-requisites is a bit of an oxymoron).
<persia> ScottK: Yep.  Please suggest something.
<alfredoj69> I working on my first package, glc
<ScottK> persia: I'd suggest a prerequisites list for things that are required and a suggested preparation section for good idea stuff.
* ScottK was typing...
<persia> "Suggested Preparations"?
<ScottK> Yes or Recommended.
<alfredoj69> and the "make" process fails on a error
<persia> (some people succeed in getting sponsorship for new software without c-u-u, so I think nothing is required).
<persia> OK.  I'll change to "Recommended Preparation":.
<alfredoj69> I contacted the developer but I haven't received an answer back
<ScottK> persia: True, but they are truly operating out of process and so needn't really be considered.  The new package process is via REVU, so U-U-C is an actual requirement for new packages in my book.
<alfredoj69> what do you do in that case?
<ScottK> alfredoj69: What error?
<alfredoj69> this is the error "static declaration of pis_vfs follows non-static declaration"
* ScottK doesn't do C programming, but that sounds like a bug you'd have to fix.  
<persia> ScottK: I agree, but I'd like to keep the format clean.
<alfredoj69> I did some research and apparently this was a bug for gcc ver 3.4
<ScottK> doko: Would you please have a look at Bug #117598?  If you agree with the bug, I'll fix it.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117598 in python-defaults "adept crashed on exit" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117598
<ScottK> Oops.  Wrong bug.
<alfredoj69> but I am running ver 4.1.2
<ScottK> Bug #117599
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117599 in celementtree "celementtree provides redundant Python 2.5 packages" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117599
<persia> alfredoj69: This usually means that you have a syntax issue in your code somewhere, such that the compiler thinkgs you are rtying to redeclare the variable.  It may be a compiler error, but I can usually fix it by revewing the active namespace in the code.
<ScottK> doko: That one ^^
<ScottK> alfredoj69: IIRC gcc 4 is less forgiving than gcc 3.  It's probably something you need to fix.  I'd listen to persia.
<alfredoj69> persia: I see, but how do I fix that?
<superm1> hi everyone, any motu's up for a revu?
<persia> alfredoj69: I presume that make is telling you where it dies.  If so, take a look at the section about 10 lines on each side of that place for a missing ;, }, ), or ".   Also, it's worth using grep to find the first "declaration", as that might be the problem instead.
<RainCT> is it possible to set two different icons on a .desktop?
<RainCT> ah well, nevermind, there were a .xpm and a .png provided upstream with different names but the .png has bad size anyways
<alfredoj69> persia: I contacted the developer of the package informing him of the problem but I haven't received any answer yet
<persia> RainCT: Why would you want to.  (Separately, I'll take a look at the patch in m y morning.  Expect a comment.).
<persia> alfredoj69: Does this only happen in your package, or does it happen with the distributed tarball?
<RainCT> persia: Nvm.   OK.   Btw, what GMT are you on?
<persia> RainCT: +9 (it's late)
<alfredoj69> persia: this happens with the distributed package. There is no debian/ubuntu package yet
<alfredoj69> sorry distributed tarball
<persia> alfredoj69: If you really want to hunt it, lint might also help, although 90% of the warnings are unimportant.
<persia> Otherwise, wait for upstream (and put a note in the needs-packaging bug that upstream x.y.z doesn't compile).
<alfredoj69> persia: In this case I can't go further
<persia> alfredoj69: No worries.  Just note it in the needs-packaging bug so the next person can take advantage of your experience, and pick a new package.  If upstream gets back to you with the fix, you can have that one back.
<alfredoj69> persia: yes good idea.  I was thinking of doing that
<jwendell> Hi, any sponsor who could check my patch?
<ScottK> jwendell: What bug?
<jwendell> bug 117600
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117600 in circuslinux "create a desktop file" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117600
* ScottK is not a good choice for desktop file bugs.  He mostly does server stuff.
<superm1> ScottK, would you be able to do a revu by chance?
<jwendell> Hobbsee, around?
<alfredoj69> persia: Thank you
<ScottK> For?
<superm1> ScottK, libhdhomerun, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5277
<Hobbsee> jwendell: You have sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please give a bit more information
<jwendell> wow
<Hobbsee> :P
<Hobbsee> jwendell: the answer is "somewhat" - what's up?
<jwendell> Hobbsee, could you check the patch for bug 117600?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117600 in circuslinux "create a desktop file" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117600
<LaserJock> well crap
<LaserJock> somebody stole my bosses credit card info over the weekend
<ScottK> superm1: I'll look and see if I think I know enough to have an opinion.
<superm1> K thx ScottK 
<ScottK> LaserJock: You aren't upset because you got caught are you?
<Hobbsee> jwendell: i'm not really that awake, sorry
<ScottK> ;-)
<LaserJock> ScottK: no, it means they scour around looking at where it came from
<jwendell> Hobbsee, np :)
<jwendell> LaserJock, could you?
<LaserJock> and I find security, both physical and internet, to be a rough thing
<LaserJock> it's his university card
<ScottK> Ah.  Makes sense.
<LaserJock> everybody in his group uses it and knows the number
<LaserJock> so I had to go see if anybody broke into my computer
<LaserJock> and of course there was a nice brute-force over the weekend
<LaserJock> but I don't see any evidence of them getting in
<jwendell> RainCT, don't worry about that bug, i just opened it in order to attach tha patch ;)
<DktrKranz> in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue, it is told to set merge requests as Confirmed
<DktrKranz> is it the correct behaviour?
<RainCT> jwendell: yes just seen it. you had assigned it to yourself, or? (thought I saw another name on it but already submited it :p)
<jwendell> :)
<ScottK> superm1: Are you committed to maintaining this package personally for eternity or do you want to set maintainer to MOTU?
<superm1> I'm planning to maintain personally
<ScottK> OK.  Just checking.
<ScottK> That's legal, but not typical.
<superm1> Once the mythtv team mailing list is eventually formed, I am actually going to set maintainer to be my entire team - but the list is still in rt's queue to be made
<superm1> so in the interim, myself is fine
<ScottK> superm1: Yes, although MOTU in the meantime would be equally fine.  Your call.
<superm1> well this way, i'll get the bugs reported directly (rather than having to subscribe to the entire -motu mailing list)
<superm1> so this way will be fine for me 
<ScottK> superm1: You can subscribe yourself as bug contact in LP after it's uploaded.  That's what I do.  Being maintainer doesn't mean you get all bugmail for the package.
<superm1> Ah okay.  Well i'll do that additionally then.  I'm still okay being listed as maintainer for it though for now though
<afflux> keescook: guess that belongs to this channel... The problem is that I see about 14 security fixes between 2.0.2-2 (ubuntu dapper) and 2.0.10-1 (debian stable)
<RainCT> jwendell: are you going to use the .desktop i posted? :)
<hendrixski> hhhmmm, here's a solid question: a pbuilder with dapper which has cdbs 0.4.34 but a package needs cdbs 0.4.43 or higher...  what kinds of changes would I need to make to that package to backport it?
<keescook> afflux: yeah, I'm not sure how to handle these bits of software.
<superm1> ScottK, I'll be back in ~10-20 min if you leave any other comments in the channel i'll see them when i get back.
<keescook> it seems like maybe going the SRU route is the best way to handle it?  That gives people a chance to do testing of the new version in -proposed ?
<jwendell> RainCT, maybe
<jwendell> RainCT, let's wait some review 
<RainCT> Can somebody sponsor one of these? 117156 49443
<afflux> keescook: I've never really done any packaging except merging. Guess I'm not the right man. I'll comment to the bug that I suggest a SRU. Anything else?
<keescook> afflux: if you're willing, you can follow the SRU process.  it shouldn't be much more difficult that doing merges.
<ScottK> afflux: If you get stuck, someone here will help you.
<afflux> alright then.
<ScottK> superm1: debian/copyright needs work too.  See http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00023.html for some discussion on how to get it right.
<jsmidt> Hobbsee, and others who know about kile not building.  Kile now builds with the diff I uploaded to bug report 117579.  Thanks.
<jsmidt> Please merge.
<Peaker> hi. How should I make patches to gutsy packages (specifically, scipy isn't installable currently) such that patches are accepted back in ubuntu?
<Peaker> also, could use help in getting it fixed :)
<Peaker> (how to change the version of a .deb? Can't find it in debian/control)
<LaserJock> well, ideally you make a diff between two source packages
<LaserJock> using a tool called debdiff
<LaserJock> but first you need to make the new source package :-)
<Peaker> ah. What's the difference between debdiff and a normal diff?
<LaserJock> debdiff is smarter
<LaserJock> but it still produces a diff
* ScottK just collided with my first package to have debian/control and debian/control.in.  I'd appreaciate a pointer to how I build debian/control from debian/control.in...
<superm1> thx for looking over the pkg ScottK.  I'll work on debian/copyright tonite after work
<ScottK> superm1: You're welcome.
<ScottK> superm1: I didn't actually try and build the package, just looked at the diff, so there may be other issues yet.
<superm1> well linda/lintian were clean for me on my test builds, and the package functions as expected for me, so hopefully not
<ScottK> worksforme and conforms to policy often have a bunch of work in between.  I hope you're right.
<AndyP> ScottK: does your package use cdbs?
* superm1 nods
<LaserJock> worksforme is a good start though
<ScottK> AndyP: Yes.
<ScottK> LaserJock: Agreed.
<AndyP> ScottK: this page says a bit about it http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy in the "CDBS + The Hard Way" section
<ScottK> AndyP: Thanks.
<AndyP> you're welcome
<Peaker> numpy conflicts with scipy <= X-Y  and scipy is of version X, but I am not sure if they actually conflict, or why. I want to try to artifically change my scipy .deb version - how do I do that?
<Peaker> What determines the .deb version?
<geser> the last entry in debian/changelog
<Peaker> ah. thought that was documentation only
<Peaker> good way to force a changelog entry :)
<Peaker> "Fixes FTBFS." -> ? :)
<Peaker> does emacs have a mode for debian
<Peaker> 's changelog?
<superm1> Peaker, use dch
<superm1> to create the new entry's structure
<Peaker> dch?
<Peaker> is that a package? or an emacs thing?
<ScottK> Peaker: FTBFS == Failed To Build From Source
<Peaker> ScottK: thanks
<superm1> Peaker, its part of the devscripts package
<ScottK> Peaker: dch is a devscript for debian changelog management.  Type dch from the top level dir of your package and it'll open debian/changelog in $EDITOR ready for you to enter new information.
<Peaker> thanks
<ScottK> Peaker: scipy used to have scipt and scipy-core.  numpy replaced scipy-core so if $VERSION is to low for numbpy, I'd try scipy-core (unless I completely misrembering which package that was).
<siretart> Peaker: yes. just install 'devscripts-el'
<Peaker> gutsy's kubuntu-desktop package is also fubar'd (via kdegraphics-kfile-plugins's dep on libpoppler1-qt on libpoppler1's old uninstallable version)
<siretart> Peaker: I prefer it over dch
<Peaker> siretart: ah cool
<Peaker> siretart: what're the interesting emacs commands it exposes?
<siretart> Peaker: they are mainly interesting for debian maintainers. you can expand the menu with the debian bugs of a package, and automatically generate lines to close bugs in the next upload
<siretart> ah, there is also a pbuilder mode, but I don't use pbuilder
<Peaker> siretart: anything special in it for changelog editing?
<siretart> Peaker: create a new version with C-c C-e, a new entry with C-c C-a, and finalize with C-c C-f
<siretart> that's what I mainly use from debian-changelog-mode
<siretart> Peaker: you might be also interested in installing debian-el, it is quite handy to review binary .debs
<siretart> can anyone please do me a favor and add this to his sources.list:
<Peaker> "Most recent version has been finalized", what does that mean?
<siretart> deb http://ppa.dogfood.launchpad.net/siretart/ubuntu gutsy main universe multiverse
<siretart> deb-src http://ppa.dogfood.launchpad.net/siretart/ubuntu gutsy main universe multiverse
<siretart> and try to install emacs-snapshot-common. or better, give me the output of 'apt-get update && apt-cache policy emacs-snapshot-common'
* Peaker is updating now
<siretart> Peaker: yeah, it has an a bit annoying habit of not letting you touch the changelog with having it 'finalized'. 'unfinalize' it with C-c C-e
<Peaker> siretart: what does finalizing mean though?
<siretart> oh, new version was C-c C-v, 
<Peaker> the package is perfect and should forever be untouched? :)
<siretart> Peaker: finalizing means updating the "  -- Your Name <your@email.com>" line
<siretart> with the current date
<siretart> just press C-c C-e and see what happens
<Peaker> ah, that specific version
<Peaker> creating a new version is not a problem
<afflux> siretart: sorry for german locales: http://paste.stgraber.org/1213
<siretart> afflux: no problem, I'm german :)
<Peaker> What does a version name like "0.5.2-7+b1" mean? 
<siretart> afflux: damn. the package does show up in http://ppa.dogfood.launchpad.net/siretart/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz. What's wrong here?
<siretart> Peaker: there shouldn't be any +b1 packages in ubuntu
<siretart> Peaker: there are in debian, though
<geser> 0.5.2 is the upstream version, 7 is the Debian revision and +b1 is a binary rebuild (Debian specific)
<Peaker> siretart: should that be converted to ubuntu1 instead? :-)
<siretart> geser: are you in NM? ;)
<siretart> Peaker: depends on what you want to do. in general, no
<geser> no, just reading the debian-devel ML
<siretart> :)
<Peaker> well I am going to try that so I can see if numpy/scipy really conflict or if that's a bug in numpy's control
<ScottK> Peaker: What version of Ubuntu are you running?
<afflux> siretart: have no idea. the package isn't even listed with only your repo in the sources.list.
<afflux> siretart: (well, okay, this was kind of expected after my log...)
<geser> siretart: I'd guess your ppa archive is missing a Release file
<Peaker> ScottK: yesterday's gutsy dist-upgrade or so
<ScottK> OK.  What versions of scipy and numpy do you have?
<Peaker> numpy: 1.0.3-1  scipy: 0.5.2-7ubuntu4
<Peaker> weird, importing scipy creates a deprecation warning
<siretart> afflux: are you on amd64 or i386?
<afflux> am64
<afflux> +d
<Peaker> ScottK: scipy's test fails on a lot of invalid numpy's use. I think it depends on the wrong version of numpy
<ScottK> Peaker: For gutsy, the package has been renamed python-scipy and scipy is an empty transitional package.  Not sure if that matters for what you are doing.
<Peaker> ScottK: Sorry, I thought I should have said python-numpy and python-scipy
<Peaker> ScottK: those are the packages I use
<ScottK> OK.  Just making sure as scipy exists as a transitional package.
<siretart> ah, I see you are all in #launchpad. let's continue that there
<Peaker> I don't have scipy on my (apt-cache search)
<ScottK> Peaker: The versions of python-numpy and python-scipy we have are both the current upstream versions, so I think it unlikely that they are not designed to be compatible.
<Peaker> ScottK: well, apt-get build-dep and source didn't build out of the box
<Peaker> ScottK: there was a minor bug in scipy's build, where it tried to import an inexistent symbol from numpy's installed package, and didn't use it
<Peaker> so maybe the upstream version is some kind of nonworking snapshot?
<ScottK> Peaker: Are you building the packages yourself or using the Ubuntu packages?  I meant the upstream release versions.
<ScottK> Peaker: Both of them built on the Ubuntu buildd's, so I think it likely that they do build.
<Peaker> At first I tried installing ubuntu's
<Peaker> but scipy refused to install because numpy conflicts with it (that "b1" version thing I mentioned above)
<Peaker> so I downloaded the soruce of both. numpy built out of the box. scipy didn't build out of the box, and after "fixing" numpy to not conflict with it, and fixing scipy's build problem, and installing it, its import raises a deprecation warning, and its tests fail
<ScottK> Peaker: Where are you getting the b1 version.  That's not's what's in Gutsy.
<Peaker> numpy's debian/rules has a conflict with scipy (<= b1)
<Peaker> oops
<Peaker> debian/control
<Peaker> numpy's debian/control: "Conflicts: python-f2py, python2.3-f2py, python2.4-f2py, python-scipy (<= 0.5.2-7+b1), python-matplotlib (<< 0.90.0-1)"
<Peaker> (numpy means python-numpy here, sorry for using the abbreviation)
<ScottK> Right.
* ScottK is looking
<ScottK> Peaker: This may well be my bust then as I did that package update a few days ago.
<Peaker> ScottK: ah. and are you sure the upstream version of scipy is a working one, that matches the numpy version?
<ScottK> Peaker: No and the upstream version didn't change.  It was a Debian revision update.
<Peaker> Well, according to http://www.scipy.org/Download, 0.5.2 indeed matches 1.0.3
<ScottK> Peaker: It looks like the problem is we need some patches that have been added in Debian Experimental, but not released to Debian Unstable - http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/p/python-scipy/current/changelog
<LaserJock> ScottK: indeed
<LaserJock> I wonder why they don't have that in unstable though
* ScottK dunno
<LaserJock> some days I really wish they would just put scipy and numpy into one package
<LaserJock> it's an even bigger mess on OS X
<ScottK> Peaker: My advice is wait.  The dependencies in the package are the way they are for a reason.  If you don't want to wait, you can dget -x http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/python-scipy/python-scipy_0.5.2-9.dsc and build the experimental package locally.
<Peaker> ScottK: I could probably build numpy/scipy upstream from source?
<ScottK> Peaker: Just build the Debian experimental package for scipy and all should be well.
<Peaker> ScottK: K, thanks
<ScottK> Peaker: If not, it'd be good to know now while we can fix if for Gutsy.
<Peaker> gutsy still has a long way to go before release, no?
<ScottK> LaserJock: Is there any reason you can think of not to file a removal request for scipy-core for Gutsy?
<ScottK> Yes
<Peaker> any estimates on the chances of beryl being enabled by default in gutsy? :)
<LaserJock> ScottK: the *only* thing I can think of is people with legacy scipy-core code
<LaserJock> ScottK: it's been replaced by numpy upstream and it's really not as good anyway, from what I can tell
<ScottK> LaserJock: When I read the upstream commentary on scipy-core it seemed like it barely even existed.
<LaserJock> I'm not sure there
<LaserJock> it existed when I first started using scipy
<LaserJock> there was numeric, numarray, and then scipy-core
<LaserJock> numpy is an attempt to pull together into one library
<ScottK> OK.  I don't know enough.  I'll just leave it alone.
<Peaker> if I dget a source package, any way to auto-get the build deps of that?
<ScottK> Peaker: Chances, no.  Opinion, Oh $DEITY, I hope not.
<Peaker> hehe
<superm1> Peaker, if you build it in pbuilder - pbuilder will handle this for you
<ScottK> Peaker: Yes.  I believe it's apt-get build-dep $packagename or something similar.
<Peaker> ScottK: that works for source packages from the deb-src repository, no?
<ScottK> Peaker: AFAIK it looks in debian/control, but I'm not sure.
<ScottK> Hmmm  dunno.
<Peaker> superm1: pbuilder wants to build as root and stuff :(
<ScottK> superm1 is right about pbuilder.  That's generally a good way to go.
<ScottK> Peaker: But it does it in a safe way
* ScottK has got to run.  Be back later.
<Peaker> k, thanks for the help.. see ya
<superm1> Peaker, its the cleanest method to build package and *ensure* that you have all dependencies correct
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<Peaker> superm1: Okay, pbuilder build blah.dsc complains I dont have a base tarball.
<superm1> Right you have to create one first, Peaker have you seen the packaging guide
<Peaker> superm1: Nope, where is it?
<superm1> ubotu knows about it i think.
<superm1> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<Peaker> its not long, I hope :)
<superm1> well there is a section in there on pbuilder
<superm1> that you can browse
<superm1> its a page or two long
<superm1> but the entire document is incredibly useful to anyone getting into packaging
<RainCT> nixternal: Hi. You said on bug #117045 that there is an icon for QT Designer in the KDE icon set. but, if I don't include it, it wouldn't be there on systems with Gnome, or?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117045 in qt4-x11 "Missing .desktop for qt4-designer" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117045
<nixternal> RainCT: not for Gnome it wouldn't be
<nixternal> you would have to have kubuntu-desktop installed
<bluekuja> guys, an information
<bluekuja> how can I version 2.0 alpha release?
<superm1> nixternal, you mentioned something a few days ago about Ubuntu Chicago.  how many guys would be interested you think in a mythtv talk?
<bluekuja> e.g what syntax should I use
<nixternal> RainCT: even then, Qt Designer definitely needs an icon file though, as even in KDE it isn't given one by default for some reason, you have to manually change it
<nixternal> superm1: all of them :)
<nixternal> superm1: especially at the College of DuPage LUG
<nixternal> superm1: #ubuntu-chicago if you want to see how many are interested in there as well
<ajmitch> morning
<bluekuja> morning ajmitch 
<superm1> nixternal, k.  Well after ULive, I'll be coming back for a few days in August
<superm1> i can probably throw something together at that point
<nixternal> ajmitch: I seen your funny...vista huh...ya ok i gotcha now ;p
<bluekuja> ajmitch, do you know the correct syntax to version a 2.0 alpha release?
<nixternal> superm1: rock on, let me know the dates and I will pimp a MythTV talk if possible
<ajmitch> bluekuja: something like 2.0~alpha1-0ubuntu1 ?
<bluekuja> ajmitch, thanks
<ajmitch> lintian on REVU will complain loudly
<bluekuja> :)
<superm1> nixternal, okay sounds great. However if they want to spend a few bucks, i'm talking at ULive too :)
<xxxxx1> bye guys
<nixternal> hehe
<imbrandon> superm1, you too ?
<nixternal> bye xxxxx1 
<imbrandon> seems we'll finaly meet
<imbrandon> lol
<superm1> imbrandon, yup.  you didnt hear?
<superm1> yes indeed
<superm1> imbrandon, your talking?
<nixternal> ULive == to rich for my blood, plus I will be in sKool
<imbrandon> nah but i got ticci for just general pimpness 
<imbrandon> so i'll be there
* ajmitch certainly won't be there
<superm1> neat
* nixternal won't either
<ajmitch> way too expensive for a couple of days
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> you think?
<superm1> well imbrandon you and jono and I will have to grab some beers finally
<ajmitch> well flying from NZ costs a bit too :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
<imbrandon> ajmitch, if oreilly wasent buying my ticci i wouldent be going
<nixternal> ajmitch: driving or flying from Chicago costs a bit as well, but even then, the price of ULive might actually be more than the airfare
<superm1> imbrandon, did you get orielly to pay your airfare and such too, or just ticket in?
<imbrandon> superm1, definately, we'll have to drag jono to another bar with a "2 toothed woman singing keroke"
<superm1> haha
<imbrandon> superm1, everything but food
<imbrandon> ( and beer )
<superm1> wow imbrandon.  vee was only able to handle my ticket into the conference.  how'd you pull that off :)
<imbrandon> dunno, they just offered and i took it :)
<imbrandon> you got a hotel or anything yet ?
<superm1> just bought my airfare the other day, but no hotel lined up yet
<imbrandon> superm1, we should book the hotel togather and split it or something, or .... something
<superm1> sounds like a great idea
<superm1> (esp if its on orielly :))
<ajmitch> imbrandon: lucky you
<imbrandon> heh not really i would have rather been at spain
<superm1> imbrandon, you going to be around for the CC meeting in 5 min?
<imbrandon> supose so, i might go grab some food but i'll be there ~10 minutes into it
<ajmitch> spain wasn't too bad
<superm1> okay, well ubuntu mythtv team is going to be running up for being recognized by the CC and such
<superm1> not sure how far in, we're near the top of the list
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> i supose to vouch for sacater too iirc
<imbrandon> :)
<crimsun> superm1: are you interning at big blue this summer?
<superm1> indeed crimsun 
<crimsun> superm1: which building are you in?
<superm1> bldg 40
<superm1> third floor
<crimsun> ah
<superm1> ITAR area
<crimsun> I was in 015-3
<crimsun> under Mike Zanoni
<superm1> oh yea?  Working on what?
<crimsun> auiml
<crimsun> ibm also has its on IRC intranet
<superm1> ah software stuff :)
<crimsun> its own IRC, even
<superm1> yup rochester.irc.ibm.com :)
<crimsun> there's an #ubuntu there, too :-)
<superm1> i stick around in #lud, they do the ubuntu packages for ibm internal stuff
<crimsun> I used to camp out at that Panera down the hill and leech wifi
<superm1> haha
<dabaR> Hi. Can someone help me change the place a .png file installs to?
<superm1> crimsun, i'm with a hardware group up here, this is my second year in roch though.  I was with HGST last year
<crimsun> superm1: nice
<dabaR> I need to get a file install to /usr/share/pixmaps and it installs to /usr/share/pycentral/smartpm/site-packages/smart/interfaces/images/.
<dabaR> I was told I need to create a smartpm.install file in debian/, but I am unsure of the exact contents.
<LaserJock> dabaR: where is the .png file in the source?
<dabaR> I am looking for it.
<dabaR> hm...
<dabaR> Would ls -R|grep *.png find it?
<dabaR> I guess ls -R *.png is the same.
<LaserJock> find . -name "*.png"
<crimsun> freedesktop.org has specs for desktops
<dabaR> /smart/interfaces/images/smart.png
<dabaR> LaserJock: cool.
<LaserJock> ok so in the .install file you need a line that has:
<LaserJock> smart/interfaces/images/smart.png usr/share/pixmaps/
<dabaR> I will try it.
<crimsun> 'grats, superm1 et al.
<superm1> thx crimsun 
<ScottK> superm1: Congrats
<tritium> congrats, superm1.  Can I make a mythbuntu suggestion?
<superm1> thanks tritium sure.  shoot
<tritium> superm1: if you end up modifying ubiquity, please allow it to resize the installer windows.
<bmm> Ping for anybody willing to look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5295 and possibly advocate it.
<tritium> my mythtv box is connected to my TV, and I always have to use alternate install images, as the installer window won't fit on the screen :)
<superm1> tritium, we have a very invasive patch right now for ubiquity, so it will be changed eventually.  Are you thinking to scale with the resolution of the box?
<tritium> superm1: if many people have their boxes attached to TV's, they'll likely have low resolutions until they enable restricted drivers.  The other issue with TVs is overscan, which can be accomodated in myth, but is a pain to address completely.
<superm1> Oh indeed.  this can be a big issue
<superm1> i see what you mean
<superm1> I'll look into scaling with ubiquity.  Or at least having it work well on 640x480 for us
<tritium> Yes, I lose the top and bottom panels beyond the display edges, so can't see the menu, etc.
<tritium> superm1: great, thanks :)
<crimsun> bmm: tools/*.sh have bashisms
<crimsun> bmm: either change the hashbang to use /bin/bash explicitly, or fix them.
<bmm> crimsun: that's upstream, right?
<bmm> They are not part of the binary package
<bmm> They are just in the upstream source and are not used in the creation of binaries.
<crimsun> bmm: so they're cruft?
<crimsun> bmm: even if they aren't used at all in the build process, they need to be fixed
<bmm> crimsun: they are cruft, should have been called examples or something. Used in development of the program, but not distributed int the package.
<bmm> crimsun: I
<bmm> I'll post an upstream bug then.
<bmm> Does that mean I would have to wait for a new release to get the package into ubuntu?
<crimsun> however, they are in the source package itself, which is what's uploaded to Ubuntu.  We're accountable for everything in the source package.
<crimsun> bmm: no, you can fix them and push the fixes back upstream.
<bmm> Ok, so I just alter the source and do another "debuild -S -sa"?
<crimsun> yes.
<crimsun> granted I'm only about 1/4 through the source package.
<bmm> thanks!
<bmm> I'll keep my new update back until you have had your say ;-) Feel free to post a list in the REVU comment, then I can respond to everything point by point.
<bmm> crimsun: do I need to need to mention the edits in the tools/* files, or is it implied by a diff?
<blueyed> Is "sudo debootstrap --variant=buildd --arch i386 gutsy /var/chroot/gutsy/ http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/" supposed to fail currently?
<blueyed> It results in: W: Failure trying to run: chroot /var/chroot/gutsy mount -t proc proc /proc
<bmm> crimsun: isn
<crimsun> bmm: you'd need to mention them in debian/changelog, but yes, they'll appear in the diff.
<bmm> isn't it easier to just delete everything? They aren't used anyway
<ScottK> blueyed: Make a Feisty chroot and then dist-upgrade it.  I believe the Gutsy breakage is known and being fixed.
<crimsun> if you delete everything, you'd have to reroll the tarball, and that's really not a satisfactory rationale for rerolling
<bmm> k
<dabaR> LaserJock: That line did not do it.
<crimsun> those are simple bugs that can be fixed; e.g., they're not files restricted by licenses
<LaserJock> dabaR: oh, what error did it give? or where did it send it?
<dabaR> Same place as before.
<dabaR> I will double check that I did everything properly now.
<dabaR> same place as before is /usr/share/pycentral/smartpm/site-packages/smart/interfaces/images/smart.png
<dabaR> I have : "smart/interfaces/images/smart.png usr/share/pixmaps/" as the only line in debian/smartpm.install. It all seems done as you told me.
<crimsun> dabaR: does your source package generate multiple binary packages?
<dabaR> Yes.
<dabaR> 2
<RainCT> keescook: hi
<crimsun> what is smart/interfaces/images/smart.png relative to?
<keescook> hiya RainCT
<dabaR> crimsun: to the directory apt-get source smart makes.
<RainCT> keescook: do you remember how much time it was building until you got the error with debdiff #117045 ?
<crimsun> dabaR: ok, so to the root of the extracted source?
<dabaR> crimsun: Yes, I would say so.
<crimsun> dabaR: and there's no ./usr/share/pixmaps/smart.png when you use dpkg-deb -c smart*deb ?
<RainCT> keescook: (117045: "Missing .desktop for qt4-designer" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/117045)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117045 in qt4-x11 "Missing .desktop for qt4-designer" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<bmm> crimsun: Sorry to have to say this, but I'm going to have to go offline for a while. I hope to be able to read your comments tomorrow and I'll post a new version after fixing it all. Thanks!
<crimsun> bmm: ok.
<bmm> bye
<dabaR> crimsun: no.
<keescook> RainCT: all the way at the very end.  :P  you can do the build incrementally with "fakeroot debian/rules binary", it should skip the building part the 2nd time
<crimsun> dabaR: can you post the pbuilder log?
<RainCT> keescook: but it has to have finished building for that?
<dabaR> I am not using that command at all, but if you still want it, and tell me whether it is in /var/log I certainly can
<RainCT> keescook: because I'm falling asleep waiting for this to build xDD (like an hour until now)
<crimsun> dabaR: pbuilder build --logfile somefile.txt your.dsc
<keescook> RainCT: yeah, it's a reaaally big package.
<RainCT> keescook: well I think I'll better let it run again tomorrow while I'm at school.. :p
<RainCT> good night
<keescook> g'night, thanks for checking into it!
<dabaR> crimsun: with sudo?
<dabaR> Cause without it seems it is not working properly: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23170/
<dabaR> Even with it it complains.
<superm1> tritium, would you be able to download a mythbuntu alpha and let us know in #ubuntu-mythtv what does and doesnt appear right on your TV?  None of my tv's overscan, so I'm not sure how much things will need to be adjusted/resized
<dabaR> I will try to set up the environment, crimsun, and get back to you.
<tritium> superm1: sure, I don't mind doing that.
<superm1> let me give you a link to a newer iso
<superm1> than is posted on the site
<tritium> superm1: what kind of TV do you have?  I'm surprised you don't get overscan issues.  Even modern HDTVs do.
<superm1> tritium, http://www.mythbuntu.org/files/iso/mythbuntu-7.04~070529-i386.iso .  I just built it last night (and haven't even had a moment to test it myself)
<tritium> superm1: okay, I'm at work right now (sshed in to support a membership application), but I'll d/l it tonight and test
<superm1> tritium, samsung LNS3251D (VGA input at native res 1366x768)
<superm1> awesome thanks
<tritium> superm1: nice.  I've got a 720p JVC HD-ILA unit connected via HDMI
<tritium> Yet, it defaults to 640x480 on liveCD
<superm1> ah
<superm1> does it have VGA input? or just HDMI(DVI)?
<tritium> It's got VGA as well
<superm1> you might want to give VGA a shot - its much more common to be able to accomodate the TVs exact native res
<superm1> thats the exact reason i dont use hdmi on mine
<tritium> I've not had much luck experimenting with Modelines.  Nor do I have much time for such things.
<superm1> i dont even need a modeline
<tritium> Ah, well, I may do that then.  Thanks.
<tritium> superm1: you can run it at the native res?
<superm1> in fact i do :)
<tritium> Nice :)
<StevenHarperUK> Hello Motu's - I'm trying to get my debain Package promoted...  Its at a stable state now : http://www.squeezedonkey.com/wiki/linux/index.php?title=Main_Page can anyone help please
<ajmitch> StevenHarperUK: this is a new package you've done, that's not in debian or ubuntu?
<StevenHarperUK> It snew
<StevenHarperUK> My own code
<StevenHarperUK> Visit that link
<StevenHarperUK> There's a Screen shot
<ajmitch> ok, you could put the source package up on REVU, after joining the ubuntu-universe-contributors team 
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh im reading them instructions now
<ajmitch> I see binary packages, but no source packaging there?
<StevenHarperUK> I need to Join contributors team first : hows that done please
<StevenHarperUK> I have deb packages
<ajmitch> launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-contributors/+join I think
<StevenHarperUK> Im not sure how to go about all this : I am new to debain packaging
<ajmitch> yes, but do you have source packages?
<dabaR> crimsun: OK, now I have a proper pbuilder log file, would you like to see the lines that contain "png"?
<ajmitch> right, the ubuntu packaging guide may be a good start then
<StevenHarperUK> I have an SVN server
<ajmitch> I know
<StevenHarperUK> at the moment I am building the debain package with an ANT script - I knowits not teh right way
<ajmitch> no, to upload it to REVU it needs to be in a standard source package format
<dabaR> StevenHarperUK: It is debian, btw.
<ajmitch> I see you've got a control file, postinst, etc there
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh its all hand-cranked at the moment
<ajmitch> which could be reused, but aren't enough
<ajmitch> there needs to be a debian/ directory at the root level, with a control, changelog, rules, postinst/preinst, etc
<ajmitch> so that you can build the package with debuild -S
<StevenHarperUK> right : debain - lowercase
<ajmitch> it needs to be a reproducible build on anyone's system, debian/rules is a makefile with standard targets
<ajmitch> the ubuntu packaging guide explains common ways of doing this
<StevenHarperUK> OK : I understand most of that : like I say it is all new to me
<StevenHarperUK> Do you have a URL please
<ajmitch> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<StevenHarperUK> Thanks thats bookmarked
<StevenHarperUK> So I join contributes, get it packaged right, then get it onto REVU ?
<ajmitch> yep
<StevenHarperUK> sounds like another night or so
<ajmitch> you may also want to look at python distutils as an upstream maintainer
<StevenHarperUK> whats does that mean please
<ajmitch> so that you can install from source with 'setup.py install', and it simplifies packaging
<StevenHarperUK> ah right
<StevenHarperUK> i'm new to python too :P
<ajmitch> there are a number of examples out on the web
<ajmitch> right :)
<StevenHarperUK> I read that Python is the prefered language for Ubunut packages : so I learned it 
<StevenHarperUK> Im a Java / C programmer
<ajmitch> right, it means you wouldn't need to structure your source tree like src/usr/bin/usbadslmanager, too :)
<StevenHarperUK> Is that such a bad thing?
<ajmitch> yep
<dabaR> probably distro dependent.
<ajmitch> it really is confusing & unusual
<StevenHarperUK> OK ill make that the next job then
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-30
<StevenHarperUK> so I need to look at python distutils, and work out how to get it all working with that first : then do the correct packaging...
<ajmitch> yeah
<StevenHarperUK> OK this si good info
<ajmitch> there are quite a few applications in ubuntu that you can download with 'apt-get source packagename' if you have source repositories enabled
<StevenHarperUK> It does work now as a package, even on LIVE CD's, but I can see why I need it distro unspeific
<StevenHarperUK> Ta Ill try that
<ajmitch> you've got some very distro-specific stuff in there, like python-support directories
<ajmitch> that should be all handled automatically by debian helper scripts
<StevenHarperUK> Yes I want to lose them
<StevenHarperUK> they do nothing atm anyway
<StevenHarperUK> There from the Package I was copying
<ajmitch> it looks like you looked at a binary package, rather than the source
<ajmitch> looking at the source package would probably have made your job much easier: )
<StevenHarperUK> Yes I bet
<StevenHarperUK> I had to hand make the package : check my build.xml and build.sh :P
<StevenHarperUK> Some nightmares making the Hashes of all the files
<StevenHarperUK> I knew I was doing ot wrong
<StevenHarperUK> OK thanks for all the Help, I have other commitments tonight, but ill be trying all  this tomorrow : keep your eyes on the REVU for it ---- Steve
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: you around?
<imbrandon> gnight all
<dabaR> Hey, nigbt
<sacater> imbrandon: gnight, thanks, i got membership
<sacater> LaserJock: same to you, thanks very much
<sacater> ScottK: and you, thanks
<sacater> pochu: thanks to you as well :D
<_Enchained> hi motus
<_Enchained> can anyone remove this package from revu : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5252 ?
<_Enchained> and review this one : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5323 :p
<joejaxx> man it has been a long day
* LaserJock points -motu to the Fridge :-)
<jmg> hokay, lets see if the gutsy upgrade works today.
<sacater> joejaxx: youre day is TEENY compared to mine
<joejaxx> jekil: keep your feisty kernel lol
<joejaxx> grr
<joejaxx> jmg: *
<joejaxx> i am running gutsy with the feisty kernel
<joejaxx> sacater: :P
<jmg> joejaxx: but im trying to test to see if a bug is fixed in the gutsy kernel
<sacater> joejaxx: i havnt slept for 38 hours
<sacater> go me
<joejaxx> sacater: that is nothing :P
<sacater> joejaxx: go on...
* joejaxx is a recovering insomniac
<sacater> joejaxx: what is that, ive heard it but never actually looked it up
<ajmitch> a chronis inability to sleep
<ajmitch> s/chronis/chronic/
<sacater> ooh
<LaserJock> I most definately don't have insomnia
<LaserJock> I get 8-10 hrs of sleep
<joejaxx> sacater: yeah it is not fun either
<joejaxx> :(
<LaserJock> otherwise I'm toast the whole day
<sacater> its not hard to never sleep, provided you know what you are doing
<joejaxx> well i get 9 hours more development time i guess you could say
<LaserJock> heh
<sacater> i mean, there is one guy who hasnt slept for a decade
<joejaxx> his body takes second-cycle naps i assure you
<LaserJock> about the only time I've gone more than 24hrs is silly trips to UDSs
<joejaxx> there is no way he could stay up with no rest/sleep/hibernation/whateveryouwanttocallit for 10 years
<joejaxx> LaserJock: you should see the picture of me on the first day haha
<joejaxx> i look so bad
<joejaxx> i never thought i looked that tired
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I arrived in Sevilla around noon on the first day of UES
<LaserJock> so I went from the plane straight into BOFs
<ajmitch> heh
<joejaxx> oh wow
* ajmitch arrived about midnight on the saturday, so managed to get a good nights sleep (comparatively)
<AndyP> i can't wait til i'm in a position to fly around the world attending linux conferences and suchlike, at the moment i
<AndyP> 'm pretty bogged down
<superm1> ScottK, ping
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5314 ?
<nixternal> ryanakca: did you package this one from scratch?
<nixternal> never mind
<nixternal>  * Initial release :)
<nixternal> is it in Debian yet?
<nixternal> and that answer would be no as well. since you got the hang of it for this package, why don't you create one for Debian Unstable and then file an ITP (once it has been OK'd of course)..and then you can just request a sync
* nixternal just remembered you can't build packages on SLED 10.2
<nixternal> forgot I was using a lab machine for a sec
<_Enchained> this package is waiting also for a review ;) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5323
<_Enchained> if anyone has a little time
<ScottK> superm1: Pong
<superm1> Hi ScottK.  I updated that package's debian/copyright.  i wanted to see if I could get you to look it over again?
<crimsun> dabaR: sorry, was called away to a meeting.  Any progress?
<ScottK> superm1: I have a little time I think.  What's the link to the new version?
<superm1> ScottK,  http://revu.tauware.de./details.py?upid=5324
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> superm1: debian/copyright looks much better.  Please wrap lines to be less than 80 characters. 
<superm1> ah me and my spoiled 1600x1200 laptop display :)
<ScottK> superm1: Why are you installing lgpl.txt in debian/docs?
<superm1> because it was shipped with the package
<superm1> just like a COPYING file would be installed
<superm1> (and have the same contents) as what lgpl.txt had
<ScottK> But we already have a copy of lgpl in /usr/share/common-licenses/LGPL.  I suppose that makes sense.  Don't change it if no one else complains I guess (I'm a new MOTU, so I'm not yet all knowing).
<superm1> well on my last package,  it was indicated that a full copy of the GPL or LGPL or what not needs to be provided *with* the package
<crimsun> (have to distribute copies of whatever licenses under which the source, etc., is)
<ScottK> OK.  Leave it then.
<leonel> hello ScottK ..
<ScottK> hello leonel
<leonel> ScottK: is there a wiki page with the clamav status ?
<LaserJock> evening all
<Hobbsee> hi LaserJock 
* LaserJock points to Fridge, again
<ajmitch> hello LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee and ajmitch 
<ajmitch> shame I'll probably be busy or asleep for the Q&A sessions
<ajmitch> 00:00UTC is 12:00 here, so it'll be just in my lunchtime when I head out
<LaserJock> maybe at some point we could do an OpenDay
<LaserJock> having Q&A sessions with MOTU School sessions
<crimsun> just send your questions to LaserJock; he'll answer them -and- send a pony!
<ajmitch> yay ponies!
<LaserJock> uggg
<Hobbsee> mmm...ponies
<superm1> omg ponnies!
<LaserJock> crimsun: you severly underestimate my knowledge :-)
<crimsun> you're right, I know you're part of the MOTU trinity, so I shouldn't doubt you.
<LaserJock> blah :(
<LaserJock> I can't even think
<ajmitch> he answers questions before they are asked?
<LaserJock> s/underestimate/overestimate/
<crimsun> ;)
<LaserJock> see, I can't be a deity with typos like that
<superm1> although that is very deity like to correct your mistake with a regex, LaserJock 
<crimsun> he's just testing us, anyhow.
<superm1> ScottK, that one line that was > 80 lines was shrunk and uploaded, if you did a build, could you leave some comments/advocating or not advocating on revu?
<ScottK> superm1_: Probably not tonight.  It's getting late and I'm not sure I know enough yet to advocate that package.  I will try and take a look at it tomorrow and see.
<superm1_> great thanks ScottK i appreciate it
<joejaxx> any of you all see this? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
<LaserJock> of course ;-)
<nixternal_> oi oi MOTU land
<superm1> LaserJock, could I bug you for a little for a revu?
<LaserJock> not tonight sorry
<crimsun> LaserJock is special.  Remember that not only is he a part of the MOTU trinity, he's the MOTU liaison to the LP dev team.
<crimsun> you can assume he knows about "it" already.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> Fujitsu usually knows twice as much as I do when it comes to LP
<nixternal_> he knew about it before you pressed enter on that dput line
* Fujitsu awakens.
<LaserJock> but I've got my connections ;-)
<nixternal_> he is telepathic
<nixternal_> or is it psychopathic
<LaserJock> the latter I'm sure
<nixternal_> aren't we all though
<LaserJock> siretart caught a good PPA bug today though
<Hobbsee> the main one?
<Fujitsu> That was a nice bug, yes.
<nixternal_> haha, tonight my instructor fell for the Church of Emacs and St. Ignucious and how I am not allowed to use Microsoft software
<nixternal_> holy smokes I about died
<Fujitsu> nixternal_: Hahah.
<LaserJock> nixternal_: heh
<nixternal_> I even gave her the link tot he Church of Emacs site
<nixternal> silly netsploits
<LaserJock> darn, why has nixternal changed color in my irssi :/
* nixternal eyeballs a new package for both debian and ubuntu
<LaserJock> how annoying
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> I am colorpathic
<LaserJock> you were orange
<LaserJock> now you're blue
<nixternal> good, Kubuntu blue!
<nixternal> muhehe
<LaserJock> hmm, that reminds me
<LaserJock> I don't think I've really been in KDE since Feisty was released
<nixternal> LaserJock: remember Edgy? :p
<crimsun> he should remember edgy.  That's when he was appointed to the trinity.
* LaserJock bows
<nixternal> was he appointed or did he just automagically (either by the grace of a higher being or by...Linux for Humans!)
<nixternal> gah
<nixternal> hit enter to soon
<nixternal> I ruined that one
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> ok, gimme a sec
<LaserJock> phew, back
<LaserJock> now in KDE
* Fujitsu files a PPA bug (latest uploads for a distro links to PPA uploads in the normal distro location)
<LaserJock> awesome, my CPU is 0MHz
<LaserJock> think of all the battery I'm saving
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<LaserJock> I have no idea what you just said
<Fujitsu> Yes, it was very badly put.
<joejaxx> actually there is a bug in ppa already
<ScottK> Good night all.
<joejaxx> https://launchpad.net/fedora/+ppas
<joejaxx> example^
<superm1> night ScottK 
<crimsun> this hit 'n' run "please help" business doesn't not compute.
<crimsun> 'night
<Fujitsu> The `Latest Uploads' part of a distro page show PPA uploads with the rest, and links to /ubuntu/gutsy/+source/package/release-that's-only-in-ppa, so being a 404.
<jsmidt> Is Hobbsee around?
<Hobbsee> jsmidt: somewhat, yes.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: oops
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: ping
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
<joejaxx> lol
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Heya.
<jsmidt> Hobbsee, I was wondering, you rejected my bug which was fine saying it was a sync not a merge.  But dont you requests syncs through bug reports too?
<jsmidt> I am wondering what I did incorrectly
<Hobbsee> jsmidt: i did - you'll see a filed one later.  i used the requestsync script
<Hobbsee> nothing - it's just easier to use a script to file the sync request, rather than letting you manually write one, and going back to ack that
<jsmidt> Okay, should I use that script in the future?
<Hobbsee> you could - but if you do, change the code so it subscribes ubuntu-universe-sponsors, instead of ubuntu-archive, as you're not a MOTU
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: hi!
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: How goes it?
<jsmidt> Okay, thanks Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: assignmenst and such.  i really should go into uni, but hte wifi there is dead
<TheMuso> heh
<Hobbsee> jsmidt: no problem
<Hobbsee> jsmidt: i requested the sync of kile originally, and knew it didnt end up building - it's one of the packages we maintain inside debian, and just sync across
<Hobbsee> prior knowledge about a package helps - that happens for a fair few of the kde packages in ubuntu
<jsmidt> Makes sense.  
<LaserJock> ok, I need some expert advice
<LaserJock> I'm removing the gnuchess building from gcompris
<LaserJock> is it best to comment out all building parts
<StevenK> LaserJock: You can go either way. Doing either of commenting it out or removing it will show it has changed. I find it's up to personal preference.
<crimsun> I tend to comment out unless I know it's just not going to be used again, and then I note as much in debian/changelog.
<crimsun> but yes, very much preference
<LaserJock> but do I need to take out all references
<LaserJock> s/need/should/
<crimsun> "all references"?
<crimsun> across the source package?
<crimsun> i.e., what's the scope of your change?
<LaserJock> I took everything out of the configure{,.in} and Makefile.{am,in}
<LaserJock> gcompris has a chess game that uses gnuchess
<LaserJock> I need to stop it from building that part
<crimsun> hmm, there's no --disable-gnuchess or --with-gnuchess=no ?
<LaserJock> heh, you'd think so, but no
<LaserJock> this package basically doesn't use configure flags like it should
<LaserJock> it only has the generic flags
<crimsun> well, you can do as you've done (which may invoke an autoreconf [or its effects]  due to timestamp skew - haven't looked at the actual source package)
<crimsun> doesn't ultimately matter, I suppose, since you'll have to regenerate configure regardless
<LaserJock> blah
<LaserJock> I'll just try to build it and see
<crimsun> that's kind of gross
<crimsun> worth an upstream wishlist bug report IMO
<LaserJock> well, you'd think they'd do something
<LaserJock> you can't install gnome-games and gcompris at the same time
<Burgundavia> oh geez
<LaserJock> and so I gotta hack away at gcompris
<LaserJock> since they don't provide any configure flags
<Burgundavia> why not provide a patch upstream to have a configure flag?
<LaserJock> well, that would be nice
<crimsun> is there no configure.ac?
<StevenK> Hrm. I don't have any autobork foo to suggest how to do that.
<LaserJock> crimsun: no
<LaserJock> blah blah blah
<crimsun> ok, I'm not current with the gnome-games situation [if there's any conflict at hand] 
<crimsun> it seems Sid's source package generates an additional binary package that Gutsy's doesn't, but Gutsy has a newer source version.  That's not relevant, is it?
<LaserJock> gnome-games has a conflicts/replaces with gnuchess
<LaserJock> so gnuchess was dumped to Universe
<LaserJock> gcompris is in Main and deps on gnuchess, therefore FTBFS, boom
<crimsun> do you mean build-deps or deps?
<LaserJock> build-deps
<crimsun> if it's only a deps, it certainly shouldn't FTBFS
<crimsun> ah
<crimsun> nasty.  So gcompris can either dep on gnome-games and thus drag in the gnome stack, or...
<crimsun> ah, edubuntu-desktop already Recommends gnome-games
<LaserJock> gcompris doesn't build with gnome-games
<crimsun> so without the configure hook, is gnuchess functionality still enabled in gcompris?
<crimsun> what physically is configure seeking (should be noted in config.log)?
<Hobbsee> LongPointyStick: 
<Hobbsee> hmm.  still exists
<Hobbsee> that's going to time out as soon as i go out, i'm s ure it is.
<LaserJock> crimsun: gimme a sec, it's a 100MB source package
<crimsun> ok, I need an un[ ,well less-] biased opinion if anyone has time.  Suppose that a user accuses the dist-upgrade process of muting a fairly standard mixer element that's visible in nearly all known audio configurations via KMix, the GNOME volume applet, etc., e.g., 'PCM'.  User then says that the dist-upgrade broke his/her sound but doesn't check the mixer setting.  Are you more inclined to think this is a PEBKAC or a failure in the dist
<LaserJock> crimsun: here's the relevant section of the configure http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23215/
<Fujitsu> crimsun: PEBKAC. Mixer settings can change arbitrarily, and users should really look there first.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: well, the dist shouldnt mute the sound midupgrade
<crimsun> It's fairly obvious to me that it's a PEBKAC, but I'm a bit too entrenched and thus biased, so I'm seeking opinions.
<Hobbsee> although basic troubleshooting is good
<Fujitsu> The upgrade shouldn't do it, but it's OK.
<Hobbsee> depends if you're aiming to "Just work"
<crimsun> right, I'm trying to establish whether "Just work" should -always- be the mantra.
<LaserJock> well, I'd be annoyed
<LaserJock> but I would probably check the mixer first before filing a bug
<crimsun> right, but should I presume that the user will?
<crimsun> should I presume, even, that the user -should-?
<LaserJock> ideally it'd be nice to fix that kind of thing
<LaserJock> but it'd be wishlist for me
<LaserJock> crimsun: it looks like it's just finding the gnuchess binary, but I'm not sure
<crimsun> I'd like to avoid 1) treating the user as an idiot by assuming (s)he doesn't know what (s)he's doing and thereby proactively sanitising all mixer elements and levels on every boot; 2) not doing "enough" to have sound "Just work".
<crimsun> One problem is that I really don't know whether an app or a new kernel or the user himself/herself muted the mixer element(s) in question.
<LaserJock> mhm
<crimsun> LaserJock: that's what it seems.  I'd just kill that entire section and regenerate configure, then use a hard Depends on gnome-games.
<Hobbsee> now there's two...double trouble!
<crimsun> or does gnome-games not suffice even as a runtime dep?
* Fujitsu steals one.
<LaserJock> crimsun: I honestly have no idea
* LongPointyStick stabs Fujitsu 
<crimsun> i.e., meaning does gcompris -have- to use gnuchess?
* Fujitsu retaliates with the recently-collided stick.
<LaserJock> I was just going to kill the chess game from gcompris
<LaserJock> but maybe I can s/gnuches/glchess/
<LaserJock> I think glchess is what's produced by gnome-games
<crimsun> LaserJock: careful, killing that could be a regression from 6.06 LTS ;-)
<LaserJock> like I care
<LaserJock> oops, was that out loud/
<LaserJock> ?
<jmg> yes
<crimsun> I didn't see anything
<nixternal> hahaha
* crimsun whistles
<nixternal> crimsun: whistle blowing is bad!
<jmg> nixternal: it is?
<jmg> why
<LaserJock> bah, this stupid package is just so big
<nixternal> whistle blowing == snitching or telling on someone
<LaserJock> 40MB just to install the .deb
<nixternal> damn
<crimsun> ***MEMORY-WARNING***: glchess[16911] : GSlice: g_thread_init() must be called before all other GLib functions; memory corruption due to late invocation of g_thread_init() has been detected; this program is likely to crash, leak or unexpectedly abort soon...
<crimsun> nice.
<LaserJock> umm, where did that come from?
<crimsun> I invoked glchess from zsh
<crimsun> (gutsy)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> sounds like a winner
<crimsun> note that gnome-games binary contains /usr/games/glchess and /usr/games/gnome-gnuchess
<LaserJock> hmm
<crimsun> not being familiar w/ either, it looks like the latter is used by the former
<LaserJock> I wonder if I should talk with gcompris upstream
<LaserJock> this went from a simple sync to messy and not fun real quick
<StevenK> LaserJock: Fun, innit?
<Fujitsu> Doesn't Debian have the new gnome-games?
<LaserJock> yep
<Fujitsu> Oh, demoted to universe.
<LaserJock> that's where we got the packages I think
<LaserJock> so people are going to hit this sooner or later
<crimsun> well, the first thing I'd establish is whether gcompris has a hard runtime dependency on gnuchess.  If so, does build-depending on gnome-games and using /usr/games/gnome-gnuchess as $GNUCHESS suffice?
<LaserJock> it just looks like Edubuntu is the first
<LaserJock> crimsun: right, that makes sense
<crimsun> if you absolutely can't hack gcompris's build to use gnome-games, then I'd have a conf call with gcompris and gnome-games
<crimsun> err, not conf call, but ... you get the idea
<LaserJock> heh
<crimsun> if, in fact, you -can- get gcompris to work with gnome-games, I'd just kill the crap in configure* anyhow.
<crimsun> You shouldn't have to build-dep on gnome-games.
<LaserJock> I guess this will go in my core-dev resume :-)
<crimsun> definitely some gross, not shiny, crack
<Hobbsee> mmm....crack...
* Hobbsee crunches on people's bones in the background
<jmg> mmm 
<LaserJock> hmm, it does look like it's just providing a wrapper around gnuchess
<LaserJock> gnuchess_bin = g_build_filename( exec_prefix, "bin", "gnuchess", NULL);
<crimsun> eww.
<crimsun> you could hack that to use gnome-gnuchess from gnome-games
<LaserJock> mhm
<crimsun> gnuchess_bin = g_build_filename( exec_prefix, "games", "gnome-gnuchess", NULL);
<crimsun> tehehe
<LaserJock> I guess I could do the same with the ./configure
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure why it's a build-dep
<LaserJock> I guess maybe to get the path right?
<crimsun> it looks like bin/gnuchess is hardcoded, though
<crimsun> it's a pointless build-dep
<LaserJock> alrighty, I've got to get to bed
<crimsun> 'night
<LaserJock> but I think I know what I need to try/do
<LaserJock> thanks crimsun 
<crimsun> np
<Hobbsee> aiee, the evil badger song...
<jussi01> crimsun: how did you go with that review of mnemosyne?
<crimsun> jussi01: haven't yet.
<crimsun> don't worry, it's queued.
<jussi01> ok, I dont know if my last question got through, (connection sucks) but crimsun, how did you go with the review of mnemosyne yesterday?
<Hobbsee> [15:48]  <crimsun> jussi01: haven't yet.
<Hobbsee> [15:49]  <crimsun> don't worry, it's queued.
<jussi01> Hobbsee: crimsun thanks
<jussi01> :D
<LaserJock> crimsun: hah, I just did one s/gnuchess/gnome-gnuchess/ in the ./configure and it finds gnome-gnuchess and builds fine
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Aren't you in bed?
<highvoltage> Fujitsu: laptops ftw :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: exactly
<LaserJock> anybody running gutsy?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I am; for what do you wish?
<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, a million dollars, kthxbai
<LaserJock> darn it, he left
<Admiral_Chicago> who?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu
<Admiral_Chicago> ah i found my way over to MOTU by some odd chance
* Admiral_Chicago waves
<dholbach> good morning
<LaserJock> hi dholbach 
<dholbach> LaserJock: heya - great that the MOTU announcements made it to the fridge! your work, I suppose?
<LaserJock> yeah, they just made me a Fridge editor
<LaserJock> because of Behind MOTU 
<LaserJock> so I'm trying to liven things up a bit ;-)
<dholbach> ROCK ON
<LaserJock> yeah, the hits to Behind MOTU tripled after putting that article on there
<LaserJock> I was a bit surprised
<dholbach> rock and roll :)
<LaserJock> so for sure putting stuff on Fridge is a good thing
<LaserJock> if we get some sort of weekly or monthly report going I'd like to put that on the Fridge
<dholbach> I suggest we stick to UWN - keeping a report regular is not very easy if people on that team are busy with stuff already
<LaserJock> yes, I remember our old MOTU Report
<dholbach> exactly
<dholbach> I tried it with the bughelper reports too and they were a good thing, I'm just to busy to keep them going
<LaserJock> things are a tad easier I think now
<LaserJock> reporting REVU uploads and SRUs on -motu provides some info
<LaserJock> new MOTU, teams, etc. are good
<dholbach> I think I'll do a call for wiki-ing more regularly
<dholbach> there's a lot we can do to improve the situation by writing things done - even if it's just a "hey, somebody should write a blurb on <some topic> - I don't find useful information and explained it at least 4 times already" or "the guy I mentor had problems with ... - let's write something down"
<LaserJock> for sure
<Ash-Fox> Wikis are useful because it additionally means the person can figure out what todo when there isn't a 'mentor'
<dholbach> exactly
<dholbach> I'll also ask the people I mentor to write things down they found hard to do, which will give us more QA for mentoring
<crimsun> LaserJock: yes, but if you already know that's all it needs -at run-time-, then just kill the build-dep
<highvoltage> how do I check with which flags something in Ubuntu has been compiled with? for example, I'd like to check whether libsasl2 was compiled with "--with-ldap"
<highvoltage> any tips?
<crimsun> highvoltage: apt-get source libsasl2; more foo/debian/rules
<highvoltage> crimsun: ah, thanks!
<crimsun> (presuming you have the deb-src entry for main active)
* highvoltage is putting it in as we speak
<crimsun> you can also inspect the diff.gz for debian/rules
<paran> is it possible to write comments on packages in REVU without being MOTU?
<StevenK> Sure, on your own uploads.
<paran> no, on some others package
<StevenK> Only if you're a reviewer.
<paran> but then you need to be a motu
<paran> at least according to the wiki
<Adri2000> some people are reviewer without being motu
<crimsun> those people are extraspeshallike.
<dholbach> whooooo - lots of people signing up for ubuntu-motu-mentors
<crimsun> :)
<dholbach> if only half of them turn into MOTUs, ......... :-D
<imbrandon> dholbach, i got someone i'm mentoring ( as of today ) off list, should i have them signup or anything ?
<dholbach> imbrandon: sounds like a good idea
<dholbach> imbrandon: I'll add some notes about best-practices on the MOTU/Mentoring/Mentor page
<imbrandon> i know this guy will become a MOTU, he is my old boss ( moved to a new company )
<dholbach> imbrandon: who is it? do you have the LP ID?
<dholbach> rock and roll
<imbrandon> mocker ( in here e.g. IRC and LP )
<imbrandon> dholbach, ^^
<dholbach> thanks for mentoring!
<crimsun> ah crap, I just subbed
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> subbed?
<dholbach> crimsun: subscribed you already :)
<crimsun> ...and then I read the mod list
* imbrandon goes to subscribe also
<paran> crimsun: ok. any reason that everybody can't make comments? (off course only motus should be able to advocate)
<crimsun> paran: it may have been anti-spam at the time.
<paran> crimsun: should be possible to verify your login agains launchpad or something
<dholbach> imbrandon: added to the wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Mentor
<imbrandon> dholbach, rockin
<imbrandon> brb
<crimsun> paran: it's something worth raising on the -motu mailing list and adding to the next MOTU meeting's agendum if necessary
<txwikinger> Morning folks
<crimsun> hi.
<paran> crimsun: Ok. I'l send a mail, thanks :)
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<dholbach> hi DarkSun88
<DarkSun88> Hi dholbach :)
<thedonvaughn> is there a ubuntu packaging help channel?
<thedonvaughn> sorry to ask in here, but i'm not having luck :)
<dholbach> thedonvaughn: this is the right place
<thedonvaughn> has anyone else had issues creating a pbuilder environment for gutsy?  I keep getting error: chroot <path> mount -t proc proc /proc  debbootstrap failed
<thedonvaughn> of course path is the path to my pbuilder chroot, just left that out for easier typing :)
<pochu> thedonvaughn: are you running gutsy?
<dholbach> thedonvaughn: that's a known bug and being worked on aiui
<thedonvaughn> pochu, yes
<thedonvaughn> dholbach, ah ok.. that's basically what i wanted to know.  i'll go search for that bug so i can follow/help.  thanks
<thedonvaughn> what are you guys doing to contribute packages to gutsy's universe?  just not building with pbuilder? :)
<dholbach> thedonvaughn: I set up my pbuilder before, so it works for me - you can still just build the package locally and once you put it up for review somebody else will test and build it in a chroot/with pbuilder
<dholbach> so no need to be blocked on a broken pbuilder :)
<thedonvaughn> yah that's what i figure.. cool.
<thedonvaughn> what a cool channel, glad i found this
<dholbach> thedonvaughn: thanks a lot for helping us out!
<thedonvaughn> i work at a datacenter, and we use ubuntu as our workstations.  I'm the one who makes all of our work related programs, scripts, debugging tools etc etc into .deb packages for easy mass deploys :)
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5314 ?
<thedonvaughn> dholbach, welll... not technically yet... BUT I do plan to.  I really want to infact
<dholbach> excellent
<thedonvaughn> not new to making .deb's tho and been using debian for atleast 8 years.  ubuntu is excellent and now that gutsy is real new i plan to help out MOTU where i can.  i've already begun researching on the wiki and i've been triaging when i can at launchpad
<dholbach> if you need any help, let us know - do you have some patch or package you're working on already?
<thedonvaughn> well i was just gona build some of work tools against gutsy's environment.. that's it.  for ubuntu, nothing at the moment.  if memory serves, there was a link for packages needing help?  I was going to start there and see if there is anything i use alot or am pretty familiar with.
<thedonvaughn> i would like to see avant-window-navigator, but i'm assuming that package has already been uploaded to REVU... and not sure if it'd be cleared through yet.  
<thedonvaughn> i should check that :)
<Lutin> p
<Lutin> err.
<dholbach> thedonvaughn: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Bugs has lists of bugs that might be easy to fix or are being mentored
<pochu> And today it's a Hug Day :)
<dholbach> yoohoo
* dholbach hugs pochu
<thedonvaughn> :)
* pochu hugs dholbach back :)
<thedonvaughn> dholbach, right on, i'm gona explore that 
<dholbach> rock and roll
<dholbach> who of you will be in the 0 UTC Q&A session tonight?
<dholbach> (that's in 13 hours from now)
<dholbach> I won't make it as it's 2:00 in the morning for me
<Lutin> won't be here either, I'm on the same timezone
<asac> dholbach: will you be there?
<asac> dholbach: oh i can't read
<asac> :)
<dholbach> np :)
<dholbach> I'm sure some people from the US can make it
<dholbach> Lutin, asac: 12:00 UTC should be better for us
<asac> dholbach: probably get commitments before release next time :)
<asac> dholbach: in one hour?
<dholbach> asac: we agreed on the times in the MOTU meeting
<dholbach> asac: tomorrow, so in 25h :-)
<dholbach> #ubuntu-classroom
<cyber> hello everybody
<asac> dholbach: k will be here
* dholbach hugs asac
<dholbach> hiya cyber
<Lutin> dholbach: heh, sure :)
<cyber> dholbach: i'm new in here
<cyber> i'm entering for first time
<dholbach> welcome to the channel then, cyber
<dholbach> how's it going?
<cyber> may i introduce my self
<cyber> i'm from bulgaria (little country next to greece)
<cyber> i like the ubuntu idea
<dholbach> excellent :-)
<cyber> and i inspired from the work of all to make it hapen
<cyber> and i want to get involved
<cyber> to help 
<dholbach> cyber: that's great to hear
<cyber> i'm a programmer
<dholbach> you can check out http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation (the Ubuntu Packaging Guide is a good read) and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Contributing has some useful links too
<cyber> thanks
<dholbach> if you need any help, just ask in here, somebody will help you getting started :)
<cyber> thanks
<dholbach> thank YOU :)
<asac> cyber: what kind of programming do you have skills in?
* dholbach created http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Documentation/Wishlist - please make use of it, if you have trouble with documentation
<cyber> mainly in php
<cyber> also c++
<cyber> asac: my job is webdeveloper
<cyber> but firs i started programming in c++
<asac> cyber: do you know javascript as well?
<cyber> nope but i use ready scripts in my web pages
<asac> what is a "ready script" ?
<cyber> sorry for my english
<cyber> for "ready scripts" i mean scripts made by other
<asac> ah ok
<cyber> the php programming i do myself
<pochu> cyber: providing you know c++, you might be interested in the gnomemm Ubuntu team :) https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnomemm
<pochu> dholbach: btw, that page (Documentation/Wishlist) ^ is empty here ?
<pochu> I mean, it doesn't exists. Did you really create it?
<cyber> pochu: as i sayd i'm very new to ubuntu. Can you tell me in few words what is this project gnomemm about
<cyber> of course i know what gnome is :)
<bmm> crimsun: I'm back. Have you found any new things I need to change on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5295 ?
<cyber> and i'm familiar to the basics
<pochu> cyber: sure :) It takes care (triage bugs, upload new upstream versions, request syncs and do merges...) of the gnomemm related packages: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnomemm/+packagebugs
<RainCT> Hey
<cyber> i'll take a look on the links you gave me and make some installs
<cyber> see you
<cyber> bye
<jekil> hello
<dholbach> pochu: MOTU/Documentation/Wishlist - sorry
<pochu> ah, ok :)
<xxxxx1> morning guys!
<ScottK> Good morning xxxxx1
<xxxxx1> ScottK :)
<ScottK> Adri2000 or Lutin: On DaD, it seems when a package comes back onto DaD it comes with the comment that was there from the previous upload (at least in some cases).  Spamassassin and Scapy are two recent ones.
<Lutin> ScottK: thanks for pointing this out, I'll have a look at it asap
<pschulz01> Where do I install python programs?
<RainCT> how can I find easy to solve bugs?
<pochu> RainCT: bitesize tag in Launchpad
<pochu> pschulz01: what do you mean?
<pschulz01> pochu: I'm packaging a python program.. 
<pschulz01> pochu: I know nothing about python.
<pochu> pschulz01: I think python-central or python-support install the files in the right place.
<pochu> pschulz01: the python policy will be a big help then :) http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
<pochu> At least it has been for me :)
<pschulz01> pochu: Ta.
<ScottK> pschulz01: Does your python package have a setup.py?
<pschulz01> Yes.
<pochu> RainCT: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<pschulz01> ScottK: Does that help?
<RainCT> pochu: ok thanks
<ScottK> pschulz01: Yes.  You might want to apt-get source pyyaml and look at that as an example.  
<ScottK> pschulz01: If you've got a good setup.py, it's generally very easy with pysupport and cdbs.
<pschulz01> ScottK: Wow.. 7 line 'rules' file.
<ScottK> Yeah.  As I said, easy.
<ScottK> If you let the tools do the work for you.
<pschulz01> ScottK: So I don't need to use 'dh_make'
<pschulz01> ScottK: :-)
<ScottK> Nope.
<ScottK> pschulz01: Which version of pyyaml did you get?
<pschulz01> 3.04
<ScottK> OK.  You might want to download the Gutsy version (3.05) as the package you have has a patching system and a few other things you won't need.
<pschulz01> brb
<ScottK> dholbach: Mind if I have a go at the clamtk merge?
<pschulz01> ScottK: Ok.. back again
<jussi01> hello everyone
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> no \sh?
<ScottK> Hello jussi01
<jussi01> ScottK: got a minute toe review mnemosyne?
<pschulz01> python-support or python-central ?
* ScottK had it on my list for later today.
<kink> hi, I'm a DD with a question. There's a number of bugs reported against my packages in launchpad, which have been fixed in newer versions that are also in ubuntu now. Is there a way to close these bugs?
<jussi01> ScottK: :d
<TheMuso> kink: Got bug numbers?
<Fujitsu> kink: Click on the package name in the `Affects' line and set the status to Fix Released.
<jussi01> :D
<ScottK> pschulz01: Either.  Generally I'd say python-support unless you need a feature that python-central supports and python-support does not.
<kink> Fujitsu, anyone's free to do that?
<pschulz01> ScottK: Can I just copy the 'rules' file?
<Fujitsu> kink: Right.
<kink> Fujitsu, great, will do. thanks.
<ScottK> pschulz01: Probably.  Try that for a start.
<pschulz01> ScottK: and install cddb?
<pschulz01> cdbs?
<ScottK> What you should do it make sure it's a build-dep in debian/control and then build in a pbuilder, chroot, or something similar.  Pbuilder will pull in the build-dep's for you.
<ScottK> kink: Welcome.
<pschulz01> ScottK: Ta..
<dholbach> ScottK: not at all
<ScottK> dholbach: OK.  I got it then.
<RainCT> How can I fix #59036 ?
<dholbach> bug 59036
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 59036 in doc-base "`Index' value missing for format `info'" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/59036
<xxxxx1> hello Hobbsee
<dholbach> RainCT: weird... it looks like adding a line to a file in bzip2 would fix the problem
<Hobbsee> hey xxxxx1!
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach!
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach 
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee back
<Hobbsee> :D
<highvoltage> *grouphug*
<imbrandon> lolcode *has* to becomes a full lang
<imbrandon> dholbach!
<imbrandon> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> imbrandon!!!
<StevenK> There's far too much exclaiming going on.
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> hrm i wonder if i could muster up enough c++ skillz to write an lolcode intrepriter
<StevenK> How about a easier problem?
<imbrandon> like ?
<StevenK> Learn to spell intrepreter correctly, first?
* StevenK hides.
<imbrandon> hahaha
<zul> or "skills"
<imbrandon> nah, 
<zul> uh huh
<RainCT> dholbach: I already have that line it says that should fix it on /usr/share/doc-base/bzip2
<dholbach> RainCT: and it doesn't fix it?
<ScottK> dholbach: Since this is the first Debian package for clamtk (we've been on our own previously), this is a big merge.  I'll do it, but the Debian package is radically different.  Should my approach be to stick with the Debian approach and just add stuff we have that they don't (like the man page)?
<RainCT> dholbach: dunno... I'm not going to upgrade from dapper to edgy :p
<dholbach> RainCT: ok
<StevenK> ScottK: You should try and stay as close to Debian as you can.
<dholbach> ScottK: stick to the debian package, I don't even mind if you change the maintainer field
<ScottK> OK.  WIll do.
<dholbach> I packaged it ages ago, when I looked at the UniverseCandidates list
<RainCT> dholbach: and shouldn't it be assigned to bzip2, since it says to add a line to /usr/share/doc-base/bzip2?
<ScottK> dholbach: OK.  
<dholbach> RainCT: I don't know enough about the bug to say that. Sorry.
<kink> RainCT, that bug should be against bzip2, not doc-base
<kink> RainCT, recent doc-base became more strict about packages shipping wrong doc-base files
<kink> so you need to fix the package that ships the wrong file, i.e. bzip2
<RainCT> kink: how can I check if the file is wrong?
<mruiz> hi all
<xxxxx1> mruiz: hello
<mruiz> dholbach: my problem with debootstrap is still there :(
<dholbach> I know
<dholbach> but as I said... if you're on gutsy already, you can work on that, so no need to be blocked because pbuilder doesn't work
<mruiz> yes!
<dholbach> somebody whose pbuilder works will test it
<StevenK> The debootstrap problem should be sorted out next mirror pulse.
<imbrandon> nice
<mruiz> :)
<imbrandon> sudo apt-get install python-ply python-ply-doc
<imbrandon> err
<StevenK> Password:
* StevenK chuckles
<imbrandon> NOPASSWD: ALL 
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK> I much prefer sudo adduser <> sudo
<imbrandon> StevenK, seen the python lolcode parser ?
<StevenK> Nope
<imbrandon> one sec
<imbrandon> :)
<kink> RainCT, see the top message at that bug
<imbrandon> StevenK, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23243/
<StevenK> I'm this >< close to getting a spoon to make the badness stop.
<mruiz> dholbach: remember that I resolved the conflicts... now I have to do:  debuild -us -uc -rfakeroot -k0D3FD8A9 ?
<imbrandon> StevenK, a spoon ?
<Hobbsee> to gouge his eyes out with
<StevenK> Exactly.
<dholbach> mruiz: to just build it       debuild -us -uc      is enough
<ScottK> dholbach: How strongly do you feel about the no first run patch in clamtk.  It looks to me like except for that, it's a sync.
<dholbach> mruiz: debuild uses -rfakeroot itself and -us -uc means: don't sign it (so no -k option needed)
<mruiz> dholbach, why without signature ?
<dholbach> ScottK: I patched that out ages ago, because it said that it's only needed on Fedora or something, but if it does not hurt, we can drop it
<dholbach> mruiz: because you build it locally to test it, no?
<imbrandon> heh
<dholbach> mruiz: if you want to build a source package, you might want to run       debuild -S -sa   
<ScottK> dholbach: It doesn't mention Fedora any more, it just says on some distros you need to edit .conf files.
<dholbach> hm, ok
<dholbach> not sure if it's still needed
<ScottK> dholbach: You don't need to edit the .conf files in Ubuntu or Debian, so the patch is technically correct, but I think it's a trivial detail not worth keeping an Ubuntu diff for.  How about I ask for a sync and send the patch to Debian via BTS and let the Debian maintainer decide if he want it?
<ScottK> want/wants
<dholbach> ScottK: right, let's drop it
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> Thanks
<dholbach> thank YOU
* mruiz building!
<mruiz> dholbach: I got some warnings
<ScottK> dholbach: You might be glad to know that the Debian package has all the Ubuntu debian/changelog history in it, so that doesn't get lost on the sync.  I'm going to take that as a sign the maintainer was aware of the no first run patch and not file a bug in BTS.
<dholbach> mruiz: which ones?
<dholbach> ScottK: sounds like it, yes
<mruiz> dholbach, I had a problem with my virtual machine. Afterwards, I tried again with "debuild -us -uc" and I got many errors : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23245/
<pschulz01> Where does pbuilder get it's 'apt/sources' from? I trying to hit a local apt-cacher.
<dholbach> dpkg-source:  new version is symlink
<dholbach> dpkg-source:  old version is nonexistent
<dholbach> mruiz: ^ what did you do?
<mruiz> when my virtual machine was "frozen" I press Ctrl+C
<dholbach> dpkg-source: warning: source directory `./mod-bt-0.0.19+p4.2340-1ubuntu1' is not <sourcepackage>-<upstreamversion> `mod-bt-0.0.19+p4.2340'
<dholbach> dpkg-source: warning: .orig directory name mod-bt-0.0.19+p4.2340-1ubuntu1.orig is not <package>-<upstreamversion> (wanted mod-bt-0.0.19+p4.2340.orig)
<dholbach> I suppose you have a mismatch between the version number in debian/changelog and the directory you're working in
<mruiz> dholbach: what's your suggestion ?
<dholbach> make sure that the version numbers are correct
<ScottK> dholbach: Would you believe the sync is already done.  It was run 6 minutes after I filed the bug.
<dholbach> I just saw it on -changes ;-)
<mruiz> dholbach: wait me 5 minutes, please
<dholbach> ubuntu awesomeness
<dholbach> mruiz: take your time - I'm working on other things in the meantime
<mruiz> no worries!
<dholbach> ScottK: thanks for looking into that
<ScottK> dholbach: No problem.  It looks to me like 2.32 actually works with clamav 0.90.x, unlike 2.31, so I'm going to file a feisty-backport request once it builds.
<dholbach> rock and roll :)
<imbrandon> StevenK, too bad he dident license the lol.py or i would package it for gutsy 
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK> No, not bad. *GOOD*.
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> my buddy at work was like , wow i could program in that
<mocker> imbrandon: wassup punk.
<imbrandon> heya mocker , david said he is gonna learn lolcode
<imbrandon> :)
<mocker> Is that the IM IN YOU LOOP language?
<imbrandon> yea
<mocker> hah.
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23243/
<mocker> Saw that on somethingawful this morning.
<imbrandon> there is a working python intrepeter , not 100%
<imbrandon> but works
<mocker> people have too much free time. :)
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> you see my mail about the classes >?
<imbrandon> the MOTU classes
<dholbach> who of you will be in #ubuntu-classroom at 0:00 UTC later?
<StevenK> Probably me.
<dholbach> rock
* Hobbsee shouldnt be
<StevenK> Given it's in 14 hours or so
<Hobbsee> StevenK: 10
<StevenK> Oh right, yes.
<mocker> imbrandon: Not yet.
<pochu> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 30 2007, 14:10:36 - Current meeting: Edubuntu
<mocker> imbrandon: Been... busy.
<mocker> imbrandon: Looking at buying a house. :)
<imbrandon> mocker, sweet
<imbrandon> in OP ?
<mocker> Guh.
<mocker> last.fm bought by CBS
<mruiz> dholbach: now works! And I have warnings again: warning, `debian/libapache2-modbt-perl/DEBIAN/control' contains user-defined field `Original-Maintainer'
<mocker> imbrandon: Eh, currently looking all over the place.
<mruiz> and -> Ubuntu merge policy: when merging Ubuntu packages with Debian, -v must be used
<dholbach> mruiz: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<dholbach> mruiz: ignore the Original-Maintainer warning
<mruiz> ok
<gnomefreak> -vVersion#  isnt it?
<mruiz> dholbach: what's about the Ubuntu merge policy?
<ScottK> Yes, but if you are making a debdiff for someone else to upload, it's not necessary.
<dholbach> mruiz: man dpkg-buildpackage and read about -v
* mocker plays w/ openvpn.
<dabaR> crimsun: OK, now I have a proper pbuilder log file, would you like to see the lines that contain "png"?
<dabaR> crimsun: We are trying to make the .install file to move the .png into /usr/share/pixmaps
<mruiz> dholbach: what's the next step to test the package locally ?
<dholbach> mruiz: it built? were you able to install and test it?
<mruiz> yes, built
<dholbach> does it install, look good?
<mocker> imbrandon: Showed a coworker ubuntustudio.
<dholbach> if so, you could get a debdiff from the debian to the merged version and send it to me, I'd review it then
<mocker> He's installing now. :)
<imbrandon> mocker, sweet
<leonel> gooood morning  everyone  !
<gnomefreak> are we planning for e17 to be in gutsy?
<imbrandon> is e17 ever gonna release ?
<gnomefreak> i doubt it
<imbrandon> before duke nukem forever
<gnomefreak> imbrandon: they say in the distant future
<vijay2000> hi all i am trying to package 
<vijay2000> brasero 
<Hobbsee> vijay2000: why?
<vijay2000> i have downloaded the source from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brasero/0.5.2-0ubuntu1 and i have run th e command  dpkg-source -x brasero_0.5.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
<vijay2000> now where will i get the updated version to which we need to package
<vijay2000> i was told that i will get the information in debian/copyright 
<Hobbsee> the website listed in debian/copyright
<vijay2000> debian/copyright has It was downloaded from http://sourceforge.net/projects/bonfire/
<vijay2000> now in site which one i need to download 
<vijay2000> 0.5.1 released  or New stable release 0.5.0  or Brasero-0.4.92  
<vijay2000> the version i downloaded from LP is 0.5.2
<Hobbsee> what makes you think taht there is an updated version?
<vijay2000> if we dont have a updated version then y we need to go for a packaging ..i am a newbie so my question might sound silly
<Hobbsee> what makes you think taht we "need to go for a packaging"?
<gnomefreak> vijay2000: 0.5.2 is in gutsy
<Hobbsee> as in, what's telling you that it needs updating?
<vijay2000> i was asked by my mentor to try out for packaging of brasero
<Hobbsee> right.  who was the mentor?
<Hobbsee> and have you asked them why?
<vijay2000> daniel is my mentor . i thought we have a updated version 
<vijay2000> so i am yet to ask him up 
<gnomefreak> cant really learn anything from a package that doesnt fail to build atleast 10 times :(
<Hobbsee> dholbach: poke
<vijay2000> yes tats true 
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: that used to
<vijay2000> i was working on clamtk package 
<gnomefreak> vijay2000: is it dholbach or another daniel?
<vijay2000> since that was synced by ScottK 
<vijay2000> dholbach
<gnomefreak> we have 2 that i know of that are mentors atm unless crimsum pulled out already
<ScottK> vijay2000: clamtk finally got into Debian, so now that's what we'll work off of.
<vijay2000> yes i know it got into debian successfully
<vijay2000> that is why i started working on brasero
<ScottK> I'll also ask for a backport to Feisty once it's built in Gutsy.
<Q-FUNK> is burgundavia gone or currently Burgwork ?
<vijay2000> ok
<gnomefreak> Q-FUNK: same person
<asimon> Greetings, two questions. If a package in REVU got uploaded, how long does it usually take to appear in the distro? And if a revu package got accepted and is part of universe, whats the right way for an update? A bug report with a debdiff? Thanks.
<vijay2000> now should i work on brasero or should i wait for a backport of clamtk
<ScottK> I've got a Debian BTS/Unstable-Testing migration question....  If a package in Unstable (say python-numpy) doesn't work with the Unstable/Testing version of another package (say python-scipy), but there is a new version of python-scipy sitting in experimental, is it appropriate to file a bug against python-numpy that essentially says needs to migrate to Testing with python-scipy non-broken version and not before?  I'm trying to encourage the new
<ScottK> python-scipy out of experimental so I can merge it.
<ScottK> vijay2000: What is there to do on brasero?
<vijay2000> ScottK: nothing there to work on :)
<sacater> imbrandon: now that Im a member, does that change my ability to get a space on that server for irssi and screen
<jsgotangco> sacater: congrats btw
<ScottK> vijay2000: I think your answer is work on neither clamtk nor brasero as there is nothing to be done for either.
<jsgotangco> wasn't able to attend today's CC since it was dawn on my side
<vijay2000> ScottK: yes you are right
<sacater> jsgotangco: thanks
<_MMA_> Hey guys. If you can give ward__ a little compile/package help that would be super.
<Ash-Fox> _MMA_, I can help. I am not a MOTU though.
<_MMA_> np.
<ward__> indeed
<ward__> thanx _MMA_ 
<ward__> i'm trying to install gephex (www.gephex.org) for several days
<_MMA_> Maybe a PM if need be.
<ward__> settle it trough PM ?
<_MMA_> Crap. ward__ Your not identified.
<ward__> (sorry i'm a first timer in this channel)
<_MMA_> Oh well.
<ward__> _MMA_, i know, but its possible to set it to receive PM's from unidentified anyway
<Ash-Fox> Looking quickly at the site, the latest version doesn't have a .deb package and only comes as sourcecode
<_MMA_> ward__: Dont worry. We all were. Chat with Ash-Fox. Make a temp channel if need be.
<ward__> Ash-Fox, the deb for the 0.4.3 version doesn't work either
<ward__> unmet dependencies that are not installable
<Ash-Fox> It's better to talk here, no? I mean there are all these MOTUs that can offer help.
<ward__> libqtc102-mt
<Ash-Fox> ward__, yeah, I would suggest grabbing the latest source package..
<ward__> Ash-Fox, i would suggest the 0.4.3 package because the 0.4.4 got compiled but the GUI was not working right at all
<Ash-Fox> You will want to install the package 'build-essential' too
<ward__> Ash-Fox, is allready installed
<Ash-Fox> Okay I'll go with the http://www.gephex.org/download/src/gephex-0.4.3b.tar.bz2 source file then..
<ward__> Ash-Fox, i still have the output from make from my last try if u want?
<ward__> i've got it pastebinned
<ward__> (the last part)
<Ash-Fox> I'm going to try compiling it here first.
<ward__> Ash-Fox, ok
<ward__> Ash-Fox, thanx in advance for looking into it
<gnomefreak> is it safe to push epiphany-browser (<< 2.19) to epiphany-browser (<< 2.20) as a depend 
<gnomefreak> or << 2.19~
<Ash-Fox> Bunch of QT dependencies.. wee
<ward__> Ash-Fox, indeed
<ward__> 0.4.3 = qt3, 0.4.4 = qt4
<ward__> (is qt garbage or did they just not use it right?)
<Ash-Fox> A shame they didn't leave us with the deb source package on the site
<Ash-Fox> ward__, I love QT, but I have no opinion on QT4 yet.
<ward__> its a shame so many people cannot use the software because its so hard to compile
<Ash-Fox> Huh... I get the feeling  0.4.3 doesn't like GCC4
<ward__> Ash-Fox, never even though of that possibillity
<ward__> Ash-Fox, i need to go walk the dog before it rains, i'll be back in 15 minutes ok?
<Ash-Fox> Sure
<ward__> ok thanx
<ward__> brb
<ward__> (should my connection fall away, i'll come back)
<ward__> damn dynamic ip lol
<Ash-Fox> ward__, yep, it doesn't like GCC4 (I'm sure there is some stupid flag for GCC4 to get it to work with older stuff but I don't remember it.). You need to: sudo apt-get install gcc-3.4; export CC=/usr/bin/gcc-3.4; mkdir ~/bin; ln -s /usr/bin/gcc-3.4 ~/bin/gcc
<Ash-Fox> Then just run ./configure and make. After doing so you should delete the ~/bin/gcc symlink you made (it was made because the make file ./configure generates isn't correct, even though ./configure applies certain settings for gcc-3.4 set in the $cc variable
<Ash-Fox> Anyhow, it should compile and work then.
<Ash-Fox> Oh, before ./configure, you will want to check that 'gcc' is pointing to the new gcc symlink you made by checking the version using 'gcc --version', if it's incorrect, just start a new terminal window and it should be correct then.
<vijay2000> can anybody tell me how to set a auto reply 
<Ash-Fox> Ugh, I must of had some bad sausages, stomach cramps.
<Adri2000> ScottK: when removing a package from the list, DaD should remove the appropriate lines from the file comments, but indeed it seems that it didn't work in some cases (which is very strange), we are looking into it
<ScottK> OK.  Good luck.
<Lutin> true that. looks like it's all about luck indeed
<ward__> Ash-Fox, thanx i will try
<ward__> Ash-Fox, you got it working that way?
<ward__> and then one more thing: how do i delete the symlink again? (its like the second time i ever needed to make a symlink)
<kink> ward__, you can remove symlinks with 'rm'
<ward__> kink, Ash-Fox my version keeps telling me 4.1.2
<ward__> kink, Ash-Fox i uninstall gcc4 and reinstall it afterwards?
<kink> ward__, my knowledge is about symlinks
<ward__> kink no problem
<ward__> kink, can i check if the symlink is there? (i got not error while creating it)
<kink> ls -l
<Ash-Fox> ln -s /usr/bin/gcc-3.4 ~/bin/gcc
<Ash-Fox> then start a new terminal and do 'gcc --version'
<ward__> Ash-Fox, same problem
<Ash-Fox> you will need to re export cc again
<ward__> Ash-Fox, and symlink was allready there too
<Ash-Fox> That shouldn't be possible...
<ward__> Ash-Fox, re-export cc sounds like chinese to me
<Ash-Fox> ~/bin takes priority over /usr/bin ..
<Ash-Fox> Did you even install gcc-3.4 ?
<ward__> Ash-Fox, gcc-3.4 was allready installed
<Ash-Fox> export CC=/usr/bin/gcc-3.4 <- that
<ward__> same thing as installing it i thought
<ward__> Ash-Fox, i did that too, i didn't forget anything
<ward__> shall i try it again from the top?
<Ash-Fox> No, if the symlink isn't working, theres no point
<ward__> only the export line?
<Ash-Fox> If the symlink isn't working, theres no point
<ward__> Ash-Fox, maybe i can just remove the symlink and remove gcc4? (untill gephex is compiled)
<Ash-Fox> Are you sure starting a new terminal doesn't make it work?
<ward__> Ash-Fox, yep, tried several new ones
<Ash-Fox> type 'ls -s ~/bin/gcc' for me?
<ward__> ok
<ward__> 0 /home/ward/bin/gcc
<ward__> working
<ward__> won't it work if i temporarely uninstall gcc 4 ?
<Ash-Fox> No
<ward__> damn
<ward__> i'll jsut retry from the top once more
<Ash-Fox> What does 'ls -l ~/bin/gcc' say?
<Ash-Fox> Paste the full line
<ward__> ward@ubuntu:~$ ls -l ~/bin/gcc
<ward__> lrwxrwxrwx 1 ward ward 16 2007-05-30 18:37 /home/ward/bin/gcc -> /usr/bin/gcc-3.4
* ward__ is confused
<Ash-Fox> try 'sudo -i -u ward' then do 'gcc --version'
<Ash-Fox> I suspect the terminal sessions aren't truely starting from scratch.
<dholbach> hey giskard
<ward__> Ash-Fox, you were right
<ward__> version is ok now :-)
<mruiz> I want to modify a changelog... somebody know what's the meaning of "XSBC"-Original-Maintainer ?
<ward__> Ash-Fox, it seems like less warnings but still a lot
* ward__ holds his breath
<Ash-Fox> THere is nothing wrong with warnings
<Ash-Fox> Warnings are not errors.
<ward__> Ash-Fox, something else, if make ends, can i do sudo checkinstall so i end up with a deb?
<ward__> crap
<ward__> same error as last time :(
<geser> mruiz: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s5.7 , "User-defined fields"
<Ash-Fox> I don't know.
* ward__ pasts the crap
<ward__> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23291/
<ward__> that's the error i get now when doing make
<zul> ward__: checkinstall is evil and shouldnt be used
<ward__> Ash-Fox, 
<ward__> zul, ok then i wont
<ward__> i think this is probably the problem now:
<ward__> i386/dsputil_mmx.c:662: error: can't find a register in class `GENERAL_REGS' while reloading `asm'
<mruiz> thanks geser !
<ward__> this is probably a problem with ffmpeg someone else from the mailinglist once had, he solved it by putting the recent ffmpeg source into the gephex source (in contrib/ )
<ward__> should i try to do that? or would that be a bad idea?
<Ash-Fox> I don't know the code so I can't say
<Ash-Fox> But worth a try
<ward__> yeah because it seems to happen in ffmpeg
<ward__> en that helped me compile gephex 0.4.4 too
<ward__> lets try it :-)
<Ash-Fox> I'd take the ffmpeg from the .4 package 
<ward__> Ash-Fox, you're not gonna believe this...
<ward__> Ash-Fox, i fixed last error by replacing ffmpeg by the dvn ffmpeg
<ward__> but...
<ward__> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23294/
<ward__> another error...
<ward__> is there some software with those errors? :s
<ward__> jesus
<ward__> its liek an adventure compiling that program
<ward__> adventure in errorland
<dholbach> can somebody check out / improve http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/PackageUpdate ?
<ward__> Ash-Fox, any idea what this problem might be?
<shawarma> dholbach: Any particluar reason you don't mention uupdate?
<dholbach> shawarma: it doesn't use debian/watch and I wanted to show what happens 'behind the scene' - I'm happy to have a recipe about uupdate and debian/watch
* AndyP gives it a quick cleanup
<dholbach> oh... dpkg-source -x missing
<shawarma> dholbach: Or just dget -x.
<dholbach> AndyP: can you add a     dpkg-source -x brasero_0.5.2-0ubuntu1.dsc    call after step 5)?
<dholbach> oh
<dholbach> or add dget -x
<AndyP> dholbach: sure, no problem
<dholbach> thanks shawarma, thanks AndyP
<dholbach> you ROCK
<shawarma> \o/
<dholbach> yooohooo - motu mentoring power :-)
<dholbach> it'd be nice to have them on the ubuntu-motu-mentors list
<dholbach> and add checking them out as a 'requirement' for people who are looking for a mentor
<dholbach> what about  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/Debdiff ?
<ward__> got to go
<ward__> Ash-Fox, if u have suggestions, please tell them anyway, i will check the log when i get back
<ward__> (that goes for anyone offxcourse)
<dholbach> oops, did not commit it....  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/Debdiff 
<vijay2000> hi i am getting the following error when i build the brasero package http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23302/
<vijay2000> i am using dapper
<geser> vijay2000: libgtk2.0-dev from dapper is to old (2.8.17-1ubuntu5 < 2.10.0)
<vijay2000> so you mean there is no other way to build it in dapper
<geser> you can try to lessen the build-depends but it still may fail
<vijay2000> so the only solution to the prob is i need to upgrade to fiesty
<geser> yes
<vijay2000> geser: thanks :)
<geser> edgy would be enough but when you are upgrading you can upgrade to feisty
<LaserJock> quick C questions, #ifndef WIN32 indicates the start of a preprocessing section for when WIN32 is set?
<LaserJock> or is it when it's not set?
<geser> ... for when WIN is not set
<geser> ifndef == if not defined
<LaserJock> yeah, I just say the n right as it hit Enter :/
<LaserJock> *saw
<dholbach> congratulations Martinp23: your first upload :)
<Martinp23> :) woo!
<dholbach> do we have new contributors who want to do uploads to fix libgnome-speech3-dev -> libgnome-speech-dev?
<dholbach> we have lsr, gok, gnopernicus and gnome-orca up for grabs
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/Debdiff will help with that
<dholbach> don't be shy :)
<Kmos> :-)
<AndyP> dholbach: may I play on the whole "recipe" idea and use ingredients/method/garnish headings? :)
<dholbach> as long as it doesn't confuse people, I'm happy with that :)
<Martinp23> dholbach: iirc, the gok I just did is on libgnome-speech-dev
<dholbach> Martinp23: absolutely right
<superm1> hey guys, any takers for a few moments to do a revu?
<AndyP> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/PackageUpdate i think it might need some more work, but how do you like it so far?
<dholbach> AndyP: I like it very much
<AndyP> :)
<LaserJock> dholbach: \o/ for ubuntu-motu-mentors
<dholbach> yeehaw :)
* dholbach linked the recipes in a couple of places
<AndyP> i need to go read up for my computability theory exam tomorrow but if anyone wants to work on that page any further, go right ahead, i think it's looking quite helpful for new contributors :)
<dholbach> I'll inform persia about it (as he wanted to do it initially) and maybe we can announce it on ubuntu-motu-mentors some time tomorrow
<dholbach> thanks a lot AndyP
<AndyP> you're welcome
* AndyP disappears
<dholbach> do we have new contributors who want to do uploads to fix libgnome-speech3-dev -> libgnome-speech-dev? we still have lsr, gnopernicus and gnome-orca up for grabs -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/Debdiff will help with that
<jussi01> dholbach, what is required?
<dholbach> change the build-depends
* jussi01 can do.... :D
<gnomefreak> dholbach: i havent found a way to satisfy the build deps as they are now in repos it needs epi=2.18 that isnt in repos maybe build it on feisty with right build-deps and than build on gutsy?
<dholbach> gnomefreak: we can't upload to feisty
<dholbach> so it should work and build on gutsy
<gnomefreak> not upload but build
<gnomefreak> epiphany-browser-dev (>= 2.18), epiphany-browser-dev (<< 2.19),
<gnomefreak> that is causing issues
<gnomefreak> i can change it to << 2.20~ but still cant satisfy them
<dholbach> yes, we need to build on gutsy
<gnomefreak> im thinking make changes build on feisty take source build on gutsy (that way i satisy the depends since i changed them for gutsy on feisty
<gnomefreak> ^^ long way around
<gnomefreak> ill let you know if i find another way around. i need to take break atm
<dholbach> you can build it in a gutsy chroot or a gutsy pbuilder
<dholbach> that way you don't need to update to gutsy
<gnomefreak> i have gutsy chroot the problem is it depends on packages in feisty not in gutsy
<gnomefreak> unless i install epi. 2.18 from feisty in gutsy but i think thats a major change
<dholbach> yes, you need to bump debian/control too
<RainCT> keescook: hi. how did you said I can continue the dpkg-buildpackage if only the debian folder changed?
<keescook> RainCT: try and see if "fakeroot debian/rules binary" works for you.  running that multiple times should let to make changes to the debian/ tree without needing to recompile the second time.
<ScottK> keescook: Would you take feisty/edgy-security updates for Bug #108907?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108907 in aircrack-ng "Merge with 0.7-3 from debian unstable (#SA24880)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108907
<keescook> ScottK: certainly, if someone can prepare (and test) some debdiffs, I'd be happy to upload them
<ScottK> keescook: OK.  I'll take a look at it and see what i can do.
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<keescook> hiya DarkSun88
<ScottK> keescook: It looks like Bug #108907 and Bug #116615 refer to the same issue.  Which one do you want to use as the master bug?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108907 in aircrack-ng "Merge with 0.7-3 from debian unstable (#SA24880)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108907
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116615 in aircrack-ng "aircrack-ng -- buffer overflow" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116615
<keescook> ScottK: hmm.. let's use 108907 as the master.
<ScottK> keescook: OK.  Would you please confirm the task against Feisty.
<keescook> ScottK: yup, one sec
<keescook> ScottK: oh, I can't approve nominations at the moment.  launchpad changed things a bit, but I'll get those powers back soon
<ScottK> keescook: OK.  Now that I'm MOTU, I had thought I'd have been able to do that.  Maybe it's not just me then...
<keescook> ScottK: once LP gets fixed, you will
<geser> use https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/aircrack-ng/+bug/108907 and click on "needs fixing here" as a workaround
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108907 in aircrack-ng "Merge with 0.7-3 from debian unstable (#SA24880)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<ScottK> geser: Thanks.  That worked.
<evand> Can someone take a look at 117834 and let me know if I'm on the right track.
<lionel> hi evand
<evand> hello lionel 
<mathiaz> hi. I'd like to package an init script that is started from the rcS.d directory. Should I set the Default-Start tag in the init script ?
<lionel> you're on the right track, but few things to change
<ScottK> keescook: It looks to me like the 0.6.2 code (what we have in Feisty) is fundamentally different than what is in 0.7 and later (the known vulnerable version).  The only spot in the source that was checking packet size that I found in that file for 0.6.2 seemed to me to look for packets to large.  Based on my inspection of the source, I think that Edgy/Feisty are not vulnerable.  I am not in a position to actually try the exploint though (only
<ScottK> one wireless card right now).
<evand> ok
<lionel> first, you should attach debdiff, not paste it in the body
<lionel> it easier for others to download to test and to upload :)
<keescook> ScottK: ah, interesting.  one of the reporters claimed it was.  I can check into it.
<evand> lionel: ah, I was using the script pitti wrote, will fix in the future.
<pochu> evand: If just left a comment in the report. You should always notice every diff with Debian in the changelog :)
<pochu> s/If/I/
<ScottK> keescook: I think he misunderstood as he reported a fix in 0.7, but it's actually a 0.7 vulnerability that was fixed in 0.9.
<keescook> aaah
<evand> I also put [Evan Dandrea]  in there by mistake which I see now
<lionel> as pochu said
<lionel> (you add a build-dep that is not in the changelog
<crimsun> mathiaz: # Default-Start:     S
<ScottK> keescook: Please have a look as I'm operating on the ragged edge of my expertise here.
<lionel> it seems that there were former releases of the package
<lionel> (in Ubuntu)
<lionel> and changelog entries are missing
<keescook> ScottK: yup, reading now
<lionel> evand: do you use MoM or DaD for the merge ?
<mathiaz> crimsun: and then update-rc call in postinst will deal with everything ?
<evand> indeed, that came from the Debian change
<evand> I think I used the script from MoM
<evand> I stand corrected
<evand> from DaD
<ScottK> keescook: Now I'm looking at the second bug report that has an Etch debdiff.  Maybe it'll change my mind...
<pochu> evand: you have also removed the previous Ubuntu changes ;)
<evand> yikes
<pochu> e.g. the nice icon :)
<lionel> evand: between which version did you debdiff ?
<pochu> bug #76996
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 76996 in amule "better icon for amule" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76996
<keescook> ScottK: the debian debdiff seems to imply there is still a partial fix for 0.6.2
<pochu> lionel: I'd say debian 2.1.3-3 and Ubuntu 2.1.3-2ubuntu1
<ScottK> keescook: Agreed.
<mathiaz> crimsun: how can I specify the number which should be used ?
<evand> 2.1.3-2ubuntu1 and the newly created 2.3.3-3ubuntu1
<crimsun> mathiaz: you'll still need to pass the appropriate parameters to update-rc.d.  See its man page.
<evand> err 2.1.3
<crimsun> mathiaz: (examples there)
<ScottK> keescook: I'd been looking at the information in the other bug...
<pochu> evand: -3ubuntu1? Do you mean -3?
<lionel> evand: it should be between last Debian package and Ubuntu merged
<evand> ahh, ok
<mathiaz> crimsun: ok. I'll have a look. Thank you.
<keescook> yeah, it wasn't clear, and it seems that the vuln code is actually in 0.6.2 by way of a patch, so the patch itself needs update.  confusing!
<pochu> lionel: btw, good luck with your MOTU membership request :)
<lionel> pochu: thanks :)
<lionel> pochu: it's on its way
<ScottK> keescook: Ah.  That makes more sense.  Very odd.
<crimsun> pochu: it already has the requisite acks, just awaiting last notification
<tsmithe> hi - any DDs about?
<tsmithe> i've got a package i'd like to get mentored into debian
<tsmithe> it's wired, and it's on mentors.debian.net
<pochu> crimsun: have you already submitted it to the TB?
<crimsun> pochu: we're awaiting Andrew's input
<crimsun> tsmithe: haven't /whois'd, but are you in the mentors channel? :)
<Kmos> bug 114229
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 114229 in k3b "Please update to k3b 1.0.1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114229
<Kmos> anyone wants to do this ?
<tsmithe> crimsun, oh no. is that on oftc, or here?
* tsmithe didn't even know of its existence
<Seveas> there is no #ubuntu-mentors or #ubuntu-motu-mentors
<tsmithe> not ubuntu :)
<tsmithe> debian :)
<Seveas> ah ;)
<tsmithe> ;)
<pleia2> tsmithe: oftc
<tsmithe> thank :)
<tsmithe> *s
<evand> So when writing the changelog for a merge, you should always list the Ubuntu changes that were kept after the merge?
<geser> yes
<evand> ok, thanks for clairfying
<ward_> Ash-Fox, did u find the time to look at the end of the make i pastebinned?
<ward_> (i didnt find logs of this channel) :s
<lionel> ward_: as for all Ubuntu channels: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5314 ?
<ward_> lionel, thanx :-)
<ward_> damn no reply lol, i think Ash-Fox is afk or busy
<ward_> can anyone else take a look?
* ward_ finds link
<ward_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23294/
<ward_> that's what make says
<ward_> when compiling gephex
<ward_> i allready had to use gcc3.4 instead of 4 (with Ash-Fox his advice) to solve a few problems
<ward_> then i needed to replace the ffmpeg wich is delivered with gephex with the recent svn version
<ward_> that also solved the error
<ward_> and then i got this
<ward_> and i hav eno clue how to solve this
<ward_> www.gephex.org is the webpage of the prog i'm trying to compile
<ward_> (i will offcourse post a howto at some wiki if i get it to work, that goes without saying
<ward_> )
<ward_> been trying to compile it for days, never been so close
<mathiaz> I have a question related to init scripts : the current package uses update-rc defaults to install init scripts. I'd like to install the init script in rcS instead. I know how to do that. But can I handle package upgrades ?
<mathiaz> (ie removing all links during the package upgrade)
<mathiaz> (ie removing old links during the package upgrade)
<xxxxx1> bye all!
<ward_> lol bitchx @ nintendo64
<ScottK> keescook: It looks to me like the vulnerable patch for aircrack-ng is not present in the Edgy version, so I think it's clear.  LP is apparently offline just now, so I can't report that.  I also attached a debdiff for Feisty.
<keescook> ScottK: great!  thanks.
<Lure> can somebody explain this: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html - digikam-doc is claimed to have 0.9.2~beta2-1 in debian, but it does not show on packages.d.o
<pochu> Adri2000, Lutin ^
<Lure> interesting... grab-merge.sh got it from somewhere... ;-)
<pochu> Lure: it isn't in http://packages.debian.org/unstable/doc/digikam-doc either.
<gnomefreak> is it bad to merge a package and fix everything but 2 issues (a bit over my head but daniel asked me to do it so i did. anyway is it bad to send the package as is with my patch and stuff but the 2 things still borked to revu and let him fix rest (or someone else?)
<Lutin> pochu: Lure's pointing to MoM as far as I can see :)
<pochu> Lutin: lol, you're right :-)
* pochu looks at DaD, and hopes it's also there :p
<Lure> poningru: URL of DaD?
<superm1> pochu, could you do a revu?
<Lutin> pochu: seems it does
<pochu> Lutin: YaY! it's also in DaD ;)
<Lutin> Lure: http://dad.dunnewind.net
<pochu> superm1: I'm not a MOTU, but I might find something interesting.
<superm1> Oh thought you were :)
<superm1> sure if you'd like to look anyhow, couldnt hurt: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5325
<pochu> I'll be... some day ;)
<gnomefreak> ok let me change that. how do i stop autoregen of control file during clean
<gnomefreak> ^^^ evil and has pissed me off for 3 or more hours now
<crimsun> gnomefreak: it's good to update the source package continually, yes.
<crimsun> apologies for not following up; I've been traveling today and won't have time until later tonight to review.
<crimsun> what do you mean by regen?
<crimsun> is debian/control being regenerated from debian/control.in?  If so, that's acceptable.
<gnomefreak> its ok i took this on and should have known better (what started off as a simple merge + patch + changing a couple things in control 
<crimsun> or is cdbs being used to regen it?
<gnomefreak> its not acceptable in this case becase it reverts the debian/control to a bad place
<Lutin> superm1: the source package name is libhdhomerun, however it doesn"t seem to provide any lib* binary package? why is that ?
<gnomefreak> that i dont knwo let me look in rules real fast
<superm1> Lutin,  thats what upstream calls it
<Lutin> superm1: ok..weird
<gnomefreak> can i guess and say cdbs
<superm1> Lutin, I believe its because they build for multiple OS's from that same package
<superm1> so they thought libhdhomerun made sense?
<gnomefreak> crimsun: the clean part of rules is tiny and doesnt say either way. however there are 4 lines for cdbs in rules up top
<Lutin> superm1: don't know 
<crimsun> gnomefreak: you'll need to at least grep debian/control*'s ^Build-Depends for cdbs and check debian/rules, too, for the env var
* crimsun -> phone
<pochu> superm1: I'd say you don't need to install the lgpl.txt file, since you're linking to it in debian/copyright, but I'm not sure though.
<superm1> thats the same thing ScottK said yesterday, but you need to ship a copy of the LGPL with the package
<superm1> as determined with the last package i worked on
<Lutin> superm1: and iirc the README file is automagically added by debhelper.mk
<gnomefreak> crimsun: ill wait till morning when im fresh and thinking better. thank you. have fun on your travels :)
<superm1> Lutin, ah. 
<Lutin> superm1: in this case, the package actually contains a copy of the license, so that's fine for the orig. concerning the package, as long as the copyright file points to a common license theres no point keeping it
<Lutin> I mean, installing it a 2nd time
<superm1> Ok Lutin.  Just had heard differently with mythbuntu-artwork-usplash.  crimsun had said to still install COPYING (which was a copy of the GPL)
<Lutin> and btw, all the files chmod 755 in the orig..how can one do that ? :/ (it's not your fault, anyways)
<superm1> silly Silicon Dust :)
<ScottK> pochu: think of it as installing the COPYING file (which is normally done automatically)
<Lutin> superm1: are you sure COPYING was no more than a full copy of the license ?
<ScottK> keescook: LP is back up so I marked Edgy rejected for aircrack-ng
<superm1> Lutin,  yes, thats exactly what it was
<keescook> ScottK: great, thanks.  I've got feisty building now; it's a pretty minimal change, so I'm happy to get it published.  thanks for hunting down all the bits.  :)
<pochu> ScottK: then it shouldn't be installed, unless it has some special clauses, right?
<Lutin> ScottK: do you think it's worth installing it if it's nothing but a full copy ?
<Lutin> seems quite pointless to me
<ScottK> Lutin: I guess I put it in the can't hurt category.  Normally you install COPYING even if it's just a copy of the GPL, so I'd say yes.
<ward_> can anyone take a look at this make output? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23294/
<Lutin> ScottK: humm well maybe. in a lot of cases though it 'just happens' through debhelper.mk
<pochu> At least I didn't do it with my first Debian package, and it got accepted :)
<ScottK> Yes.  Normally just happens.
<superm1> Lutin, here is the last package that I did: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5244.  It was the last thing keeping it from getting uploaded (Adding a COPYING file which was a copy of the GPL)
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5314 ?
<joejaxx> is there anyway to see what packages have the most bugs?
<joejaxx> on lp
<Lutin> superm1: oh, I see
<pochu> joejaxx: probably OOo :)
<joejaxx> pochu: :P
<joejaxx> pochu: why do you say that?
<pochu> joejaxx: because it has a lot ;)
<joejaxx> lol
<Lutin> heya persia 
* joejaxx looks
<pochu> joejaxx: but ubiquity has more...
<joejaxx> 468 for OO.o
<persia> Hi lutin
<mocker> rrdtool is making my head hurt. :(
<pochu> joejaxx: btw, why do you want to know it? :)
<pochu> you can file a bug in lp about it ;)
<DarkSun88> G'night.
<joejaxx> well
<joejaxx> i have found different ways to find bugs i can patch and upload
<joejaxx> without other people taking them :P
<joejaxx> while i am working on them
<joejaxx> it is hard to explain
<superm1> Lutin, will you be able to leave some comments advocating/not advocating on revu for that package? (Your motu right?)
<joejaxx> but i want to run this method on the packages that have the most bugs
<Lutin> superm1: sure
<superm1> thx Lutin 
<Lutin> np
<ScottK> superm1: I just gave you a +1
<superm1> Thanks ScottK :)
<Lutin> ScottK: are you ok with the package name ? I'm still wondering if uploading a non-lib as libfoo source hurts or not 
<ScottK> Lutin: That would fall under I'm new and what do I know.  It's a bit unexpected.  superm1 why did you give it a lib name if it's not a lib?
<superm1> ScottK, because the upstream package was namd that
<superm1> I just followed what the upstream source was titled
<Lutin> imho, removing lib from the source name would be a good thing, though you'd have to deal with 'renaming the tarball' thing on each new release :)
<ScottK> Lutin: It's just the source package name.  The binary package name doesn't say lib, so I don't think any actual end users will be confused.
<superm1> well i guess the big question would be if there are any ramifications by having a source package name like that
<superm1> could any other motu's comment?
<Lutin> ScottK: would remain confusing on the developer side though. as superm1 said, having another opinion would be cool :)
* ScottK thinks it's probaby not a problem and will leave my +1 on the package.  Agree about getting other opinions.
<fargiolas> Lamego: ping?
<ward_> could anyone please look into my compilation problem?
<ward_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23294/
<ward_> make problem would maybe more accurate
<ward_> be more accurate
<fargiolas> Lamego: just sent you an email
<persia> ward_: The new gcc is stricter about code syntax.  It looks to me like structscannnner.h shouldn't specify that some of the internal members are within the private namespace - this is already known.  On the other hand, addressing this requires looking at the code.  Try patching the header to not use the extra qualification.
<ward_> persia, how do i patch the header not to use the eextra qualification?
<ward_> (sorry is that sounds retarded :p )
<ward_> if
<Lamego> fargiolas, pong
<Lamego> about :P ?
<persia> ward_: You can find a good guide on patching systems from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
<fargiolas> gnome-mastermind new release
<fargiolas> you packaged the last version, remember?
<ward_> persia, am i gonna be able to do that with not much programming skills?
<Lamego> fargiolas, sure, will package it tomorrow, today I just have time to finish the current package :(
<fargiolas> Lamego: don't worry there's no hurry :)
<fargiolas> i've just released it, it can wait for this night :P
<persia> ward_: That's hard to answer.  It depends on whether your "not much" is enough.  I suggest giving it a try - at first glance it looks like you just need to remove the utils::structscanner:: from before the member declarations.  If you're still confused, then you might want to pass.
<Lamego> ok :)
<Lamego> but I do like 0 day releases ;)
<ajmitch> morning
<ward_> persia, not confused, but surely not confident
<ward_> lol
<ward_> persia, i'll see if i understand the docs and go from there
<persia> ward_: Try it.  If it tests clean, you've made a good patch :)
<fargiolas> :)
<ward_> persia, i'm still using gcc 3.4 because it is needed to compile gephex, that's not gonna be a problem right? just to make sure
<persia> ward_: If you're using gcc 3.4, my earlier comments might not be right.  I recommend just retrying with the current latest gcc before trying a patch.
<ward_> persia, i'm using gcc3.4 because gephex didnt work with gcc4, Ash-Fox recommended using 3.4 and that solved that part
<ward_> (he helped me here earlyer but he seems to be afk)
<ward_> persia, try with gcc4 anyway?
<persia> ward_: When a package doesn't work for gcc4, it's good to retry that package with gcc3, but this should only be done for single packages, and only if absolutely required.  It's best to try with gcc4 for each new package first.
<ward_> persia, that's what i did, tried first with gcc4 and it didnt work
<ward_> persia, does the info on the webpage not count with gcc3.4 ?
<persia> ward_: Which webpage?
<ward_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
<ward_> persia, 
<persia> ward_: That information counts for all packages.  It's just that using gcc4 might well solve the problem without a patch.  Where possible, all packages should use gcc4, with gcc3.4 only used when absolutely necessary.
<ward_> persia, ok, well it certanly was necessary, it solved the first problems
<ward_> persia, and Ash-Fox looked for himself on his own PC so he's probably right
<persia> ward_: OK.  If you need to use gcc3.4, you'll still want to try the patch.  My apologies for confusion.
<ward_> persia, there's no confusion :-)
<ward_> but basically patching = editing the source code and then make a patch of what u edited right?
<ward_> then i'll first look at the source code because the chance is extremely small i understand it, else i wasted my time on patch knowledge i don't need :-)
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-31
<pochu> good night folks!
<keescook> *fume* I hate squid! why is it sooo broken?
<ward_> persia, its a very small file :-)
<persia> ward_: structscanner.h?
<ward_> persia, yeah
<persia> ward_: Should be an easy patch then :)
<ward_> like one page
<ward_> what is a namespace? :s
<ward_> namespace utils
<ajmitch> keescook: because it likes to inflict pain?
<ward_> and in there there is class StructScanner
<ward_> {
<ward_> my guess is that's the part u mean?
<ward_> persia
<keescook> ajmitch: that must be the answer.  It's making me reaaly crazy at the moment.  endless random "connection reset by peer".  gaah
<persia> ward_: "namespace utils" is a compiler directive that indicates that any identifiers for which the namespace is not explicitly declared (like std::string) should be considered in the utils namespace (automatic prepending of utils::).
<ward_> persia, i'm unfamiliar with notation like std::string, never did c / c++
<ward_> this looks a bit odd for me
<ward_> but since its so small i sohuld be able to figure it out, but i don't understand what's going wrong yet
<ward_> #include "istructtokenlistener.h"
<ward_> so i sohuld probably check that header too?
<persia> ward_: In your make output, it said there was an extra declaration.  Because namespace utils is already declared, anything with utils:: is probably wrong.  Also, if you're looking at code inside class StructScanner, anything with structscanner:: is probably wrong.
<persia> s/declaration/specification/
<ward_> persia, that's gonna be quite a chunk
<persia> ward_: Take another look at your make output.  There are three declarations that are indicated as having something wrong.  Try those first.
<ward_> persia, ok
<superm1> Lutin, ScottK: there are packages already in ubuntu's archive that have a lib* source package and create binary packages that aren't lib*.  For example: http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/source/libextractor-python
<ScottK> superm1: OK.  I'm fine with it.  If you can find another MOTU that agrees, then you're good.  
<persia> libjsw2 is another example.
<superm1> well persia would you be able to look over this revu then to add comments (and possibly advocate?)
* ward_ crosses fingers, make is running; persia 
<persia> superm1: I need to leave in about 10 minutes, but if nobody else looks at it before I have time, I'll take a look in 12-15 hours.
<superm1> Okay persia thanks
<persia> ward_: Good luck.  I suspect it won't work the first time (it usually takes me at least 3 times to fix all the compiler errors when building).
<ward_> persia, i allready fixed 2 other problems :p
<ward_> persia, its time to give me a break :p
<persia> ward_: Then this time might be it :)
<ward_> persia, i'm fairly confident i erased the right lines though
<ward_> how exactly is it possible that some packages are so impossible to build?
<ward_> whats the reason that it happens i mean
<persia> ward_: Packages get old over time, and standards change.
<ward_> that i need to replace ffmpeg with a svn version, use gcc3.4, edit a header, etc
<persia> ward_: If you had to do that much, it might just be poor code.
<ward_> lol gephex 0.4.4 also has problems (and when u finally fix them, u end up with a GUIu cannot use)
<ward_> persia, the weird thing is it works really nice and fast
<ward_> (its a live video manipulation tool)
<ward_> anyway i hope it works now
<ward_> persia, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23339/
<ward_> lol
<ward_> it says it misses what i removed from the code
<persia> ward_: It looks like you deleted the lines.  You just need to remove utils::StructScanner:: from the declarations.  I have to go now, but give that a try.
<ward_> allright :-D that error is gone, and i got a new similar one, so i know how to fix it :-)
<TheMuso> woohoo!
<TheMuso> LP closes bugs from changelogs!
<TheMuso> Finally.
<ward_> can anyone look at this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23340/
<ward_> could those errors be because i'm using gcc3.4 instead of gcc4 ?
<crimsun> no
<crimsun> your error is on line 108
<crimsun> sorry, 105
<ward_> lol omg, thanx crimsun 
<ward_> i'm at it too long i think, loosing focus lol
<ward_> crimsun, this means its looking for avutils.h in '../../../contrib/ffmpeg/libavcodec/' ?       ../../../contrib/ffmpeg/libavcodec/avcodec.h:30:20: error: avutil.h: No such file or directory
<StevenK> TheMuso: Wow! Which bug?
<LaserJock> crimsun: turns out the gnuchess stuff in ./configure was used
<crimsun> LaserJock: used where and when?
<LaserJock> crimsun: the hard-coded stuff I found was a failsafe
<LaserJock> it's used at build time to get the path for gnuchess
<ward_> how can i tell make avutil.h is in another dir?
<LaserJock> then at run time it uses that variable if set, otherwise it has that hardcoded path (which wouldn't work in this case I don't think)
<superm1> crimsun, could you comment at all about the source package naming confusion of libhdhomerun above by me, ScottK and Lutin ?
<TheMuso> StevenK: You seen -devel-announce?
<StevenK> TheMuso: I just got to work. I haven't read mail yet.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Ah okk.
<TheMuso> mdz posted about it.
<leonel> ScottK:  here we go again with   clamav   there's a new version ..
<leonel> ScottK:  WARNING: Local version: 0.90.2 Recommended version: 0.90.3
<leonel> even there's no official release announce  
<crimsun> ward_: do you have the appropriate -dev packages installed?
<leonel> ScottK: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/clamav/clamav-0.90.3.tar.gz   here is the tarball
<crimsun> superm1: I'll have to read in a bit
<ward_> crimsun, yep, but i think i've found something, i'll go try that first
<Q-FUNK> hm
<Q-FUNK> odd file that "sudo rm -rf" cannot remove and whose attributes appear as:
<Q-FUNK> ?--------- ? ? ? ? filename
<crimsun> umount and fsck the fs?
<Q-FUNK> done.  still not good
<Q-FUNK> besides, that files remained form an old backup
<Q-FUNK> it apparently stuck during homedir restore to a new server
<ward_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23347/
<ward_> what's wrong with the arrays?
<ward_> arraytype heeft onvolledig elementtype means "array type has uncomplete element type"
<ward_> what does that mean?
<ward_> (i'm not a coder)
<crimsun> paste the source code lines
<crimsun> that would be lines 67 & 71 of common.h
<ward_> extern const struct AVOption avoptions_common[3 + 5] ;
<crimsun> likely it's a pointer vs. array ...
<ward_> extern const struct AVOption avoptions_workaround_bug[11] ;
<ward_> that's them
<ward_> the only thing i know about an array is that it is sortof a list of more items
<ward_> lol
<ward_> crimsun, i posted the lines
<crimsun> arrays are solely of object types
<ward_> crimsun, i don't really know how u mean that
<ward_> crimsun, (everything i know about coding is very distant schoolknowledge very far away in my head)
<ward_> crimsun, can u give an example on how i could fix them?
<crimsun> this is a classic example of gcc4 Doing The Right Thing
<ward_> crimsun, i can't use gcc4 because of other errors :(
<ward_> Ash-Fox, told me (he helped me earlyer)
<ward_> i use gcc3.4 atm
<crimsun> you really should get the errors triggered by gcc4 fixed
<ward_> crimsun, ok i'll start over then
<crimsun> s/trigger/expos/
<ward_> what is that? :s
<crimsun> I was attempting to disambiguate "errors triggered by gcc4" [which could be misinterpreted as a bug in gcc4]  and "exposed by gcc4" [which strictly means an error in the code you're attempting to compile] 
<ward_> crimsun, i'm gonna try it using gcc4
<ward_> but i frist need to know how to remove the symlink i made
<ward_> and i can't find that on google apperantly...
<crimsun> what symlink did you make?
<crimsun> (please don't tell me you did this for gcc/cpp/g++ ...)
<ward_> one to make it use gcc3.4
<ward_> crimsun, oops
<ward_> crimsun, correct
<ward_> it was Ash-Fox his advice
<ward_> crimsun, please don't tell me its unfixable or hard to fix
<crimsun> it's not unfixable or hard to fix
<crimsun> it's just not the Debian way to do it.
<ward_> crimsun, ok
<ward_> crimsun, could you tell me how to list and remove a symlink please? (i'll write it down so i wont need google next time)
<crimsun> you may use rm to delete a symlink
<ward_> is there no way to list all of them?
* ward_ start to search for the symlink
<ward_> lol
<crimsun> I don't know which symlinks you set
<ward_> crimsun, i can look that up, just a second ;-)
<ward_> ln -s /usr/bin/gcc-3.4 ~/bin/gcc
<ward_> crimsun, 
<ward_> so u just remove the littel icon i see in ~/bin/gcc ?
<ward_> with nautilus
<ward_> (or rm)
<ward_> done
<ward_> ok i'm back at normal gcc says gcc --vrsion
<ward_> version
<minghua> crimsun: just curious, is there a Debian way to change /usr/bin/gcc?
<ward_> doing make clean, then ./configure and make again
<minghua> crimsun: or the Debian way is just setting CC or PATH, etc.?
<leonel> is the Q&A  now ? 
<ward_> crimsun, i got the same error with gcc4 ........
<ward_> common.h:67: fout: arraytype heeft onvolledig elementtype
<ward_> common.h:71: fout: arraytype heeft onvolledig elementtype
<crimsun> leonel: yes
<ward_> translation:
<ward_> "arraytype has incomplete elementtype"
* joejaxx applauds elkbuntu 
<ward_> crimsun, any ideas left?
<ward_> same error
<ward_> <ward_> translation:
<ward_> <ward_> "arraytype has incomplete elementtype"
<crimsun> I'm busy ATM, sorry
<ward_> crimsun, no problem
<ward_> anyone else?
<crimsun> minghua: gcc-defaults sets it.  exporting/setting CC/CPP/CXX is the preferred way instead of fudging symlinks.
<crimsun> ward_: what's the issue?
<ward_> crimsun, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23347/
<ward_> still the same error
<crimsun> ward_: ...but you didn't fix the source code itself.  Surely you didn't expect the error to magically disappear?
<minghua> crimsun: thanks
<ward_> crimsun, i don't know what to do with the sourc,e sorry
<ward_> crimsun, i don't normally code stuff :(
<ward_> i don't see what's wrong with the array
<ward_> crimsun, you said it was probably solved by using gcc4, thats what i'm using now
<ward_> just to make sure u don't think i'm still at gcc3.4
<crimsun> err, I said that?
<ward_> <crimsun> this is a classic example of gcc4 Doing The Right Thing
<crimsun> AFAIR, I said that gcc4 does the right thing.  This means that it's more strict than 3.4, so it will throw more errors.  You need to fix the source code.
<ward_> i thought you meant that with this sentence yes
<ward_> aaaaah :-)
<ward_> crimsun, ok but still i don't know how to fix the arrays
<ward_> i'm not a coder
<ward_> (but i do understand basics to some level)
* StevenK pulls out the defibrillator for use on #ubuntu-classroom.
<superm1> StevenK, is there a class going on tonight for MOTU?
<ward__> crimsun, also: the old error is long gone (this one:)
<ward__> oops too far away lol, but the one with the wrong path to the ffmpeg file = fixed
<ward__> just to make sure you know that
<ward__> its only about the arrays
<StevenK> superm1: There's a Q&A session on. Apparently.
<superm1> ah
<superm1> StevenK, seems a bit dead for a Q&A session no?
<crimsun> it's over in 6 minutes.
<crimsun> (the next Q&A will be at 1200 UTC)
<superm1> ah
<superm1> crimsun, did you get a chance to look over that discussion earlier today about the naming of that source package?
<ward__> what's wrong with this please? extern const struct AVOption avoptions_workaround_bug[11] ;
<RAOF> ward__: We'd generally need *some* context.  Why not pastebin the source which has errors?  And the actual errors, too - they generally contain invaluable information.
<ward__> RAOF, ok but the actual error i pasted here too
<ward__> so, all in a row:
<ward__> output make: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23347/
<ward__> with the actual error in dutch
<ward__> line 17 and 18
<ward__> its translated:
<ward__> arraytype has incomplete element type
<ward__> (Fout = error)
<ward__> source is comming up :-)
<ward__> source: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23357/
<minghua> ward__: run "LANG=C make" can save you a lot of explanations :-)
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5314 ?
<ward__> minghua, can you please explain that?
<ward__> RAOF, i posted everything in a row now :-)
<ward__> RAOF, please tell me if you want more info
<RAOF> Well, I think that error tells me exactly what I need to know.  You probably don't have the necessary includes which actually *define* AVOption.  Secondly, I don't think the line should have the arraysize - you're just importing an extern, which is going to be allocated somewhere else, right?  It'll be imported as a pointer.
<minghua> ward__: instead of running command "make", you can run "LANG=C make", then the messages from compiler will be English instead of Dutch
<ward__> RAOF, i'm not a coder, i'm not evne long into ubuntu
<RAOF> ward__: Yup.  You can't allocate something (which is what the foo[11]  says to do - allocate an array of size 11 on the stack) without knowing how big it is :)
<ward__> minghua, i'll keep that in mind thanx for the tip :-)
<RAOF> ward__: So where is this code coming from?
<ward__> gephex
<ward__> (www.gephex.org)
<ward__> i'm just trying to build it
<ward__> got nothing to do with it
<RAOF> ward__: Ah, OK.  It's broken.
<RAOF> ward__: Go complain to whoever wrote it :)
<ward__> lol RAOF nice (not)
<ward__> RAOF, i was hoping it could be easily fixed?
<RAOF> ward__: Not without some understanding of what it's actually trying to do.  And the person most likely to have that understanding is the guy who wrote it :)
<ward__> (i had to correct a header earlyer too :s )
<ward__> RAOF, damnit why is it not documented :p
* ward__ is pissed at un-documented code
<RAOF> Well, you could *possibly* just add and "#include <avutil.h>" (or whatever ffmpeg header includes the AVOption definition)
<ward__> *allmost* undocumented
<ward__> RAOF, its worth a try
<ward__> RAOF, but won't it still complain about those arrays then?
<RAOF> No, it shouldn't.  Because it will then actually know how big they are, and be able to allocate them.
<RAOF> But it would seem that the guy who wrote that code didn't actually build it, because I can't see how it could ever work.
<ward__> RAOF, it just misses variables from other files?
<ward__> RAOF, lol its their official source :p
<ward__> form the 0.4.3 version
<RAOF> Yeah.  You need to have AVOption defined before you can create an AVOption array :)
<ward__> and AVOption is in one of the ffmpeg headers
<ward__> ?
<ward__> so i have a good chance of getting it to work with including the right header :-)
<minghua> RAOF: it's an header, so maybe just #include orders
<RAOF> Ah, of course.  But it has an explicit forward declaration of AVOption in there, too.
<ward__> RAOF, minghua how do i know wich header AVOption is in?
<RAOF> As far as I'm aware, there's not situation in which that would help.  Either avfoo.h has been included first, or those arrays can't be allocated.
<minghua> also it's enclosed by #ifdef HAVE_AV_CONFIG_H ... #endif
<RAOF> ward__: "grep AVOption /usr/include/*.h" ?
<minghua> so supposedly that is defined in av-config.h
<ward__> RAOF, i'll write it down, so i can't forget it this time :-)
<ward__> i'm used to using GUIs
<ward__> RAOF, i find no headers :s
<RAOF> ward__: Add -R.  "grep -R AVOption /usr/include/*.h"
<RAOF> (That makes it recursive, so it'll go into sub-directories)
<ward__> RAOF, nothing still
<ward__> RAOF, i'll try the ffmpeg source
<ward__> nothing
<ward__> :s
<ward__> how's that evne possible? :s
<ward__> its clearly about ffmpeg
<ward__> #define AVOPTION_CODEC_STRING(name, help, field, str, val) \
<ward__>     { name, help, offsetof(AVCodecContext, field),
<ward__> RAOF, minghua i just saw i made a huge mistake
<ward__> RAOF, minghua the code is from ffmpeg
<ward__> RAOF, minghua i made the mistake because ffmpeg comed with the gephex source...
<ward__> sorry
<ward__> does that make more sense?
<RAOF> Ah, so gephex comes with a copy of the ffmpeg source?
<ward__> yep
<RAOF> Fair enough.  Grep that source, instead :)
<ward__> RAOF, i allready tried, nothing....
<ward__> :s
<ward__> RAOF, in the meantime i'll try an svnned ffmpeg too
<ward__> RAOF, nothing in the svn version either :s
<ward__> RAOF, any other suggestion?
<ScottK> leonel: I saw the release announcement.  I don't see anything in 0.90.3 to be excited about.  They also announced 0.91 RC 1 at the same time.  At this point I'm thinking we should wait for that and backport that to Feisty (and earlier if we get the policy issues worked out).
<RAOF> ward__: Sorry, no, not really.
<ward__> RAOF, ok np
<ward__> thanx anyway
<crimsun> whew, enough flying for me
<LaserJock> crimsun: in DC now?
<crimsun> LaserJock: no, back home.  Flew to Charlotte for some meetings earlier.
<crimsun> I don't move until late June.
<LaserJock> oh, right
<leonel> ScottK: only the  PDF  security bug
<leonel> ScottK:  http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-2029
<Hobbsee> hi all
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee 
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> :)
<leonel> see you 
<leonel> tomorrow
<leonel> apt-get remove leonel ...
<joejaxx> hello all
<joejaxx> welcome back netsplitters
<Hobbsee> hi joejaxx!
<joejaxx> :D
<joejaxx> hello Hobbsee 
<joejaxx> :)
<crimsun> gpocentek: ping, cdbs usage in gutsy's xfce4-mixer breaks the build [xfce4-mixer-alsa is never generated, and xfce4-mixer-oss actually contains the ALSA-enabled version] .  I'm going to revert it to non-cdbs.
<crimsun> gpocentek: (as a result, xubuntu-desktop will be installable once again, since xfce4-mixer-alsa is currently uninstallable)
<crimsun> moreover, I don't feel cdbs buys us anything in this instance, and it's already demonstrated that maintaining such a delta leads to subtle bugs
<StevenK> Debian's xfce4-mixer doesn't use CDBS?
<crimsun> nope
<crimsun> debhelper and quilt
<StevenK> Hrm. I'm personally of the opinion that we should be sticking as close as possible to Debian.
<crimsun> yep, and dropping cdbs will realign us with Debian with the exception of one additional patch in debian/patches/
<StevenK> So the only changes are debian/rules, control and that patch?
<crimsun> just debian/{control,changelog} and debian/patches/02_xfce4-mixer-panel-plugin_border.patch
<crimsun> err, that's what it will be
<crimsun> the current delta is debian/{control,changelog,rules} and said patch
* StevenK ponders doing it.
<crimsun> xfce4-mixer?
<crimsun> I'm looking at it now, but if you'd like it, feel free
<crimsun> it'll strike one off http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/gutsy_probs.html
<Hobbsee> 2 actually
<crimsun> oh right, the bottom two
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<Hobbsee> morning dholbach 
<dholbach> hiya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
<Tonio_> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: like National Instruments Labview?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> I was doing that today too!
* Hobbsee got it as part of her electronics textbook.  using it for physics.  it works
<LaserJock> trying to figure out how to get the blasted thing to talk to our new oscilliscope
<LaserJock> I spent a couple hours digging through the driver
<LaserJock> and finally found that the function that checked the oscilliscope model had a '" instead of a " around the name of my particular model
<Hobbsee> heh
<LaserJock> that stupid ' was all that was preventing me from getting the thing to work
<LaserJock> and *my* model was the only one with that proble
<LaserJock> +m
<Hobbsee> awww
<Fujitsu> What does Labview do?
<imbrandon> views the lab?
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> Labview is *the* industry standard for data aquisition many scientific fields
<LaserJock> *in many
<LaserJock> in fact, I better hope I don't need to get an industry job as I don't know Labview at all
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> it's like a graphical programming framework
<Hobbsee> at least it works on linux.
<LaserJock> we just bought a new Dell with XP on it just for Labview
<LaserJock> I spent nearlly $3000 to get a Labview system going
<imbrandon> Dell with Ubuntu for Labview ?
<LaserJock> too bad it was before then
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> but I don't think my boss would go for it
<LaserJock> he didn't like the idea of running Labview on Linux
<Hobbsee> i guess you need teh driver support
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: http://www.ni.com/labview/ if you want more info
<LaserJock> well, I think mostly my boss doesn't see Linux as a desktop OS
<LaserJock> he ran it as a Desktop OS for many many years
<imbrandon> he hasent used ubuntu on a dell :)
<LaserJock> but he also does everything in Fortran and uses Latex for presentations
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> even on his Mac
<LaserJock> although he does seemed to have started using Excel a bit
<imbrandon> calc ? heh
* imbrandon stops
<LaserJock> well, he was die hard linux
<LaserJock> probably one of the biggest linux advocates in my uni
<LaserJock> and still is, to some extent
<LaserJock> but OS X got him
<Fujitsu> :(
<LaserJock> we used to have 6 or so Linux machines
<LaserJock> no Windows
<LaserJock> now we have 2 Linux machines and 4 imacs running OS X
<LaserJock> I wish Ubuntu would've come along a little sooner
<LaserJock> FC 1 is what killed him
<elkbuntu> crimsun, what is this i hear about nixternal using vista and where is the evidence? kthxbai :
<DktrKranz> is "Architecture: linux-any" acceptable in debian/control?
<imbrandon> s/linux-//
<DktrKranz> ok, thanks :)
<imbrandon> elkbuntu, per proper lolcode its KTHXBYE not kthxbai :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> arg, monitor seems deadish
<ajmitch> now I'm stuck with only 1 screen :(
<highvoltage> ajmitch: what if you press ctrl+a then c ?
<highvoltage> ajmitch: that should give you a new one? ;)
<ajmitch> not helpful
* ajmitch is too used to a 3200x1200 desktop to go back
<highvoltage> ouch
<highvoltage> dying hardware is not fun
<ajmitch> it was dying for awhile
<ajmitch> this was not unexpected
* ajmitch has to make do with a 20" flat panel
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: but you're not out of the country!
<Hobbsee> it's not allowed to die.
<ajmitch> I know!
<dholbach> is there any new contributor who'd like to a first upload and use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/Debdiff and make gnopernicus build-depends on libgnome-speech-dev instead of libgnome-speech3-dev? :-)
<dholbach> same for lsr?
<TheMuso> dholbach: I'll do that.
<TheMuso> dholbach: I'd rather do the a11y stuff.
<TheMuso> I've just been busy with other things.
<wolfeon> ajmitch: hehe, yeah. that is what I use, 3200x1200
<wolfeon> CRT though..
<dholbach> TheMuso: ok
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: didnt think you were a new contributor
<crimsun> I am!
<TheMuso> ~/aw
<TheMuso> gah
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: heh
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I see that stuff as my pet though.
<Hobbsee> (sounds like a bitesize bug)
<TheMuso> SO?
<Hobbsee> no big problem.  just anyone who was looking for something to do, like the guy from yesterday could do it.  but they havent shown up
* Hobbsee shrugs, goes back to lurking
<DktrKranz> if you want a new contributor, here I am :)
<crimsun> off to work.
<gnomefreak> anyone have a minute to look at this error and let me know what i can do? http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/525318
<gnomefreak> it seems like its something that is in my face just cant see it
<highvoltage> dholbach: ooh, I just took a peak at the recipes pages and notice that you use bresero as an example. how convenient!
<dholbach> highvoltage: it's still not updated in the archive :)
<highvoltage> dholbach: I'll get it done this week still, I've been swamped in different ways since getting back home
<highvoltage> dholbach: btw, do you have to use American spelling in control files?
<dholbach> I can imagine
<dholbach> take your time
<dholbach> highvoltage: not at all
<highvoltage> (I just noticed the s/dolour/color)
<highvoltage> *colour
<dholbach> highvoltage: it was just a bad joke
<highvoltage> aaaaaah :)
<highvoltage> shew!
<dholbach> maybe I should make that clear :)
<dholbach> added a note
<Baby> is is possible from debian/rules file to know whether the package is being built for ubuntu? any extra define or something like that?
<imbrandon> Baby, not that i'm aware, why would you want to though ?
<Baby> for the menu stuff, i heard that there were differences
<StevenK> Baby: lsb-release
<StevenK> Although it's kind of messy to rely on that.
<Baby> yup, that's what i was thinking
<Baby> dh_iconcache is specific to ubuntu too, isn't it?
<Baby> lunch time for me, i'll ask later about it
<Hobbsee> Baby: yes it is
<pochu> Baby: Debian #369755. Tomorrow will be its first birthay :/
<ubotu> Debian bug 369755 in debhelper "Use dh_iconcache to update GTK's icon cache." [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/369755
<StevenK> Yeah, well, Joey Hess doesn't like Ubuntu much.
<imbrandon> he can get over it
<StevenK> I can't see him doing so.
<StevenK> I can see his point, though.
<gnomefreak> after modifing debian/configure.in do i have to run anything other than clean or build?
<sacater> if I were to try and use gentoo portage on ubuntu might it break apt?
<Amaranth> sacater: almost certainly
<sacater> darn it
<jmg> goldsarn it!
<DarkSun88> Hi all
* sacater waves at DarkSun88 
<imbrandon> sacater, it wouldent "break" apt but it would render any package you installed form portage useless in apt and anything that depends on it
<sacater> imbrandon: oookkaay
* sacater takes that in
<DarkSun88> Hi sacater 
<sacater> imbrandon: sooo.... I could install from portage, but apt wouldnt see it and think it is not there, as it was not recorded in the database
<imbrandon> sacater, if your bent on a portage type system write some wrappers for "apt-get source -b <package>"
<sacater> aha
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5314 ?
<sacater> imbrandon: good idea
<jmg> sacater, is there a gentoo build script you are trying to port?
<sacater> no no
<sacater> im just trying portage
<jmg> ok
<jmg> use a chroot
<jmg> ;)
<sacater> seeing if it is any better than apt
<jmg> or a vm
<imbrandon> end users complieing from source is *never* better
<imbrandon> developers , yes, powerusers possibly, but end users *never*
<sacater> imbrandon: apt-get source is probably better, ill just make some commands
<imbrandon> :)
<sacater> imbrandon: hell I could even make a new bit of software :P
<jmg> based on my recent experiences with gutsy, i have an idea for a new project - daily vm builds of unstable
<jmg> distribute a diff against the previous version
<jmg> cause having to wait for gutsy to get fixed was a pain.
<jmg> oh crap.
<sacater> imbrandon: dpkg-buildpackage: source version is 0.5.1-2ubuntu1
<sacater> dpkg-buildpackage: source changed by Stephan Hermann <sh@sourcecode.de>
<sacater> dpkg-buildpackage: host architecture i386
<sacater> dpkg-buildpackage: source version without epoch 0.5.1-2ubuntu1
<sacater> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: python-dev polygen
<sacater> dpkg-buildpackage: Build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting.
<sacater> dpkg-buildpackage: (Use -d flag to override.)
<sacater> Build command cd cappuccino-0.5.1 && dpkg-buildpackage -b -uc failed.
<sacater> E: Child process failed
<sacater> thats for cappucino
<sacater> i can never spell it
<geser> apt-get build-dep cappuccino
* sacater slaps himself
<sacater> of course
<sacater> sory
<sacater> but..
<sacater> that uses apt
<sacater> could I do something like apt-get source -b dep
<sacater> or something else weird...
<geser> and then a packages build-depends on python-all-dev and you start rebuilding python2.4 and python2.5 (and perhaps it's build-deps)
<ryanakca> geser: lol
* ryanakca loves cappuccino
<sacater> apt-get build-deps is not what Im after
<sacater> i would want them to be compiled too
* sacater is thinking about a portage thing in ubuntu :P
<sacater> apt or a portage-mock
<geser> do you really want to rebuild large parts of the system because of one package?
<sacater> geser: no no, I just want to have the ability to compile source easily
<sacater> gentoo uses portage, which gets all the sources, including dependancies
<sacater> then compiles and installs them
<sacater> from what imbrandon has told me, I think i could install portage onto my laptop, but any packages that are installed, apt wouldnt detect and ignore, seeing as they were not registered with apt's database
<jmg> sacater: you could write a wrapper to register them with debian (equivs)
<sacater> jmg: explain :P
<StevenK> jmg: No encourging the ricer to do great evil. :-P
<jmg> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-helpers.en.html
<jmg> sacater: yeah, just promise us no insane cflags.
<jmg> StevenK: i miss funroll-loops :(
* StevenK sends jmg a SIGILL
<jmg> http://web.archive.org/web/20060513022941/http://www.funroll-loops.org/
<gnomefreak> after changing debian/configure.in do i have to run anything or can i just continue to apply a patch and build?
<jmg> "I use Gentoo because I'm a speed freak - I can't stand the thought that some of my packages might not be running as fast as they could be."
<sacater> thats the negative side of gentoo
<sacater> though it does source
<sacater> takes longer
<sacater> ubuntu uses pre-built binaries :D
<jmg> "Yea, I really don't understand all the complaints about the time to install gentoo. It is like complaining about your Ferrari because the dealership was so far away."
<jmg> ^^ gold
<jmg> "Yet, binary distros are riddled with bugs, and are much more annoying to fix given the the cumbersome edit/build package/install package cycle."
<persia> gnomefreak: Check your rules file.  If ./configure is regenerated as part of the build, you don't need to do anything at all.  If it's not, you need to manually rerun autoconf.
<StevenK> Personally, I don't want to build the toolchain 3 times when I install. If I wanted that, I'd use LFS.
<joejaxx> StevenK: lol
<imbrandon> StevenK, exactly
<gnomefreak> persia: nothing in rules from what i can tell
<gnomefreak> rules file very small
<StevenK> And I don't need to keep my hand on it saying "Ohh, ohh, ohh, -O7"
<persia> gnomefreak: CDBS?
<gnomefreak> yep
<gnomefreak> clean::
<gnomefreak> 	rm -f data/GNOME_Gwget.server.in data/GNOME_Gwget.server \
<gnomefreak> 		data/gwget.schemas
<gnomefreak> that is the clean section of rules
<persia> gnomefreak: If it includes /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk, you're all set.  If not, you might want to regenerate.
<gnomefreak> persia: it doesnt
<gnomefreak> can i add it and call it a day?
<persia> gnomefreak: If you're not finding it, but you think it should work, try building, and see if your change applied.
<gnomefreak> persia: i would think since there isnt a autotools.mk file it wont work
<gnomefreak> is taht fairly accurate
<gnomefreak> lets try autoconf manually. how would i do that?
<gnomefreak> s/try autoconf/try running autoconfig
<persia> gnomefreak: That's my thought too, but there may be a mysterious something: GNOME is funny that way.  I'd recommend trying a build before running autoreconf anyway.
<gnomefreak> persia: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -nc fails with some aclocal errors  i will pastebin them
<gnomefreak> persia: http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/525475
<persia> gnomefreak: I suspect you can either add autotools.mk (and adjust build-dep appropriately), or run `autoreconf` in the directory in which the modified configure.in resides to address that.
<gnomefreak> ok ill try autoreconf  its easier (this package has beena nightmare
<gnomefreak> persia: its not letting me :( it tells me configure.in or configure.ac is required so i ran autoreconf configure.in and givesme same output
<persia> gnomefreak: I suspect that you are either suffering from timestamp issues or my understanding of autoreconf is flawed.  It looks to me like you have an outdated aclocal.m4.  Could you check the timestamps?  If it is newer than configure.in, I'm wrong.  If it is older, you might could try running `aclocal` to update it.
<gnomefreak> aclocal: configure.in: 13: macro `AM_PROG_LIBTOOL' not found in library  am i missing something?
<StevenK> Is libtool installed?
<leonel> good  morning every one ..
<StevenK> As much as I dislike to suggest it, given libtool's reputation.
<gnomefreak> StevenK: ofcourse not :(
<gnomefreak> it will be in a sec
* gnomefreak wonders if i should have changed configure.in instead of debian/configure.in
<persia> gnomefreak: That's often a better place, although it depends on what you are changing.
<gnomefreak> just depends
<dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 3 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<ScottK> jdong: Would you or someone in feisty-backports please have an accelerated look at Bug #117794.  As it stands, the current clamtk package in Feisty is essentially useless and this new one actually works.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117794 in feisty-backports "Backport of clamtk 2.32-1 from Gutsy to Feisty" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117794
<ScottK> leonel: Good morning.
<joejaxx> yeah/win 12
<joejaxx> bah
<leonel> hey  ScottK ..
<ScottK> leonel: I'll make you a deal on clamav.  You find the patch from upstream for that PDF issue that's fixed in 0.90.3 and I'll package it up for keescook to publish as a security update for Feisty.  I agree that one should be fixed, but I don't have time to hunt up the patch.
<TheMuso> dholbach: Have you fixed orca to use the new gnome-speech?
<TheMuso> Thats a yes.
<TheMuso> Answered my own question.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Best kind. Then you can be sure of the answer.
<TheMuso> StevenK: True that.
<StevenK> TheMuso: The Q&A session is going in -classroom if you want to help out.
<TheMuso> Sure.
<dholbach> TheMuso: yes :)
<leonel> ScottK: let's smash that bug
<ScottK> leonel: Great.  Let me know when you find the patch.
<leonel> ScottK: it has another bug but only affects  with  files on  FAT filesystems   
* ScottK isn't going to worry that one.
<ScottK> It's not a security issue.
<leonel> ScottK: I'll  start  in about  3 - 4 hours ...  and let you know the progress 
<leonel> ScottK: you are right .
<ScottK> leonel: OK.  I should be around then.
<leonel> ok
<persia> ScottK: Are you sure?  Does nobody scan FAT USB sticks?
<leonel> now I got to go  for 1 hour and be back
<ScottK> persia: Is it a security issue?
<StevenK> persia: My USB stick resents being called fat.
* ScottK didn't look at it very hard.
<leonel> persia: gets in a loop  when scanning files on FAT filesystems
* persia looks for the bug to have an actual opinion rather than a reflexive response.
<leonel> I can look at it   ant see what happens  
<ScottK> persia: Good.  That'll be one of us then.
<persia> :)
<leonel> persia: http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-2650
<persia> leonel: That's a great help.  Thanks.
<leonel> persia: no problemo 
<persia> ScottK: I'd say so.  It can take a machine down if the right MS word document is on a scanned USB stick.
<ScottK> leonel: OK.  I'll call that one a security bug then if it's got a CVE.  I think that's lower priority than the PDF bug, but still doable.
<ScottK> persia: Agreed.  OTOH, I'm a lot less worried about desktop DoS than server DoS.  On a desktop, you pull out the memory stick and restart.
<persia> leonel: Of course, if you can fix both in the same upload, you get bonus points :)
<persia> ScottK: You haven't met the same junior sysadmins I have then :)
<ScottK> Not saying it shouldn't be fixed, just less important than the PDF one.
<xxxxx1> morning people!
<effie_jayx> xxxxx1, good morning :D
<dholbach> another ping: MOTU Q&A session in #ubuntu-classroom :-)
<leonel_> ScottK:   but what about  the  freshclam message that we are using  an outdated clamav version ?
<ScottK> leonel_: Nothing to be done about that directly.  Once clamav 0.91 is out (it had it's first release candidate yesterday) and we get that into Gutsy, I'll ask for a backport.  Just ignore it.
<Lure> any revu-admin here?
<Lure> do I need to do something special to get reviewers right as a motu?
<sacater> sigh
<sacater> is it possible to install portage on ubuntu
<jekil> hello
<persia> Lure: You need someone to add you to the list.  Takes about 5 minutes, but requires a REVU-admin.
<Lure> persia: thanks, so it is not linked to LP?
<TheMuso> sacater: Why would you want to do that?
<persia> Lure: Only loosely at this point.  There were plans to make a closer link several months ago, but I haven't heard anything new since January or so.
<Lure> siretart, ajmitch, raphink: anybody around? ^^^
<sacater> TheMuso: a sort of bet, a sort of challenge, a sort of experiment
<sacater> TheMuso: im having an argument with some mates about portage and apt
<TheMuso> sacater: Well if you want to screw up your system, go ahead and try it.
<sacater> TheMuso: ah
<sacater> TheMuso: how would it screw it up
<sacater> ive been told databases would be the trouble
<TheMuso> sacater: Portage also installs into /usr 
<TheMuso> So one package system would tread on another.
<sacater> hmm
<StevenK> And on a Ubuntu system, I'm of the opinion (and many agree with me), that /usr isn't yours to touch.
<sacater> darn it
<TheMuso> StevenK: Add me to the agreement list.
<sacater> well I already do that myself
<persia> sacater: If you're truly bent and determined, search the debian-devel archives for hints on building Debian from source, or be prepared to reinstall after your experiment.
<sacater> i compile xfce and fluxbox myself, and they install fine
<sacater> and work fine
<sacater> hmm
<sacater> persia: okies thanks
<siretart> Lure: uh?
<Lure> siretart: can you enable my reviewers rights on revu?
<siretart> your revu id? (email)
<Lure> siretart: [14:32]  <persia> Lure: You need someone to add you to the list.  Takes about 5 minutes, but requires a REVU-admin.
<Lure> siretart: lure@ubuntu.com
* persia enjoys geolocation by timestamp skew :)
<siretart> Lure: done
<sacater> persia: i compile lots of software from source, whole desktop enviroments, and they all work fine without any conflicts
<Lure> siretart: thanks!
<persia> sacater: You have better luck than I.
<persia> (assuming "compiling from source" does not include "wrapping in Debian packaging")
<StevenK> I've managed to blow up machines by compiling, say, Perl from source.
<sacater> persia: configure
<sacater> make
<sacater> make install
<sacater> works fine for me
<StevenK> The perl in /usr/local/bin trumps the one in /usr/bin, and the Perl in /usr/local/bin doesn't have the module paths the packaged one has, and therefore can't find anything.
<sacater> azeem: su
<sacater> sorry
<sacater> wrong channel
<shawarma> gnomefreak: Does your debian/gwget.install refer to /usr/include/gwget ?
<shawarma> gnomefreak: Wow. never mind.
<shawarma> gnomefreak: I hadn't noticed my irc window was scrolled *way* up.. :)
<effie_jayx> ScottK, ok.. I'm merging clamav right?
<ScottK> Yes
* ScottK hasn't looked at it yet, but the last one I did only had one Ubuntu unique change left in it.  
<ScottK> Have you done merges before?
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  nope ... my first one... but I am putting heart to it... 
<ScottK> OK.  Do you know where to start?
<leonel_> ScottK: but we'll have the same with gutsy  once  0.91.1  is released   I think  we need to work that  out 
<raphink> Lure: yes
<raphink> I'm around
<raphink> if it's not too late to answer
<raphink> ah I see siretart answered already :)
<Lure> raphink: hello - already fixed by siretart
<ScottK> leonel_: There really isn't much to be done.  Clamav always wants to to run the latest and greatest, but distributions will almost always lag.  Backports is the best answer.
<leonel_> I'd like to run  the latest and greatest   clamav  and other 2 or 3  packages 
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  where could I start... I have checked packaging recipe and I think It doesn't look difficult
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Go to http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php
<TheMuso> um ok.
<TheMuso> Whats happened to launchpad?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Get the grab-mergs.sh script
* TheMuso can't set priority/milestone any more.
<TheMuso> thats why
<ScottK> TheMuso: LP is having permissions issues.
<TheMuso> I'm ot logged in
<ScottK> That'll do it to
<ScottK> effie_jayx: make a new working director.
<ScottK> effie_jayx: I usualy put grab-merge.sh one level higher than my merging directory.
* TheMuso has a scripts dir.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  got it
<leonel_> ScottK:  so if  I patch  freshclam to remove that  message that we are running an outdated  clamav version ?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Then from inside your new directory, run sh ../grab-merge.sh clamav (it will erase anythin in that dir, so make sure you are in the right place).
<leonel_> ScottK: outdated will be  when  0.91   is released  not  the security updates ..
<ScottK> leonel_: Not a security issue.  Don't do it.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I got two new files
<ScottK> leonel_: If it's outdated, it's outdated.  The warning just means you need to decide if you care.  Except for security stuff, I personally don't.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  merge-buildpackage, merge-buildchanges
<effie_jayx> ScottK, merge-genchanges
<effie_jayx> sorry
<leonel_> ScottK:  ok
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Did you get the clamav files too?
<effie_jayx> no
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Hmmm.  Let me try.
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I got em
<ScottK> OK
* ScottK is tied up for a few minutes.
<StevenK> ScottK: You should tell your kids to not do that.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  no problem... one of the packaes is taking long
<ScottK> effie_jayx: I'm back.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  got the files
<ScottK> StevenK: No kids home ATM, that's why I can do that.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> effie_jayx: look at REPORT and see if there are any conflicts.  
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  no problems encountered during the merge
<ScottK> Then look at debian/changelog and see what's new and how it might relate to the Ubuntu unique stuff.
<mruiz> hi all
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  where can I find it?
<mruiz> hi effie_jayx, congratulations!
<effie_jayx> mruiz,  thanks :D
<ScottK> effie_jayx: In the dir you downloaded to there should be a clamav-0.90.3 dir, look in there.
<mruiz> ping zul
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  found the file ... reading it 
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  done... 
<ScottK> OK.  What's your opinion?
<effie_jayx> There are quite a few bug fixes... mostly related to scanning as root and scanning with restrictions
<effie_jayx> some memory optimization there too
<ScottK> Now go find the Ubuntu unique change and see if it still looks proper.
<dholbach> mruiz: just zell zul in here that you want to do his vzctl merge
<mruiz> ok :-)
<bmm> ...broadcasting... Any comments on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5295 are welcome, I'm looking for advocates.
<mruiz> dholbach: this is a merge, because the idea is to preserve Ubuntu changes :-)
<dholbach> mruiz: right, that's what we do merges for
* mruiz is learning... dholbach is a good teacher!
<dholbach> thanks :)
<dholbach> TheMuso: seems that dktrkranz did the xawtv merge
<TheMuso> dholbach: Yeah I know. I uploaded it.
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> thanks
<effie_jayx> ScottK, where should I be looking at... ?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Look at the last entry in debian/changelog for an ubuntu specific version and see if that tells you where to look.
<ScottK> effie_jayx: This gets much easier with practice.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  there is this file 0.90.3-1ubuntu1
<ScottK> effie_jayx: That's the version you are trying to make right now.  Look for the Ubuntu entry before that.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I think I am not looking in the right place
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Are you looking in debian/changelog?
<ward> can anyone please take a look at this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23426/
<ward> its an error i get from make
<ward> i'm making gephex but this error seems to come from the ffmpeg source that comes with gephex
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  found it...
<ward> but i replaced the ffmpeg that comed with gephex by the latest (because theirs was not working)
<StevenK> ward: You should see if you can convince gephex's build system to use the installed ffmpeg.
<ward> StevenK, good idea, maybe that's working with ./configure
<ward> StevenK, i'll try it right away
<dholbach> does anybody have an easy task for vijay2000 at hand?
<ward> StevenK, damn, i cna only sitch ffmpeg support on or off (and obviously i want ffmpeg support because this is a VJ application)
<dholbach> StevenK: would you mind if vijay2000 does the gdeskcal update?
<ward> StevenK, could it help when i replace it with the source of the ffmpeg in the repos?
<StevenK> dholbach: Not at all
<dholbach> StevenK: thanks a lot
<StevenK> ward: You could probably hack configure.in to look for the installed ffmpeg.
<dholbach> vijay2000: do you want to do the update of gdeskcal?
<ward> StevenK, i'll take a look thanx, but i'm no coder so i'm not sure if i can
<vijay2000> dholbach: i have no issues 
<dholbach> vijay2000: thanks
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I can't seem to find a file wehre to look.. I check the debian/changelog and reads New Upstream version... and  stop using  killproc... no sign of a file
<vijay2000> dholbach: I want to know the procedure for doing the update
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Look at the 0.90.2-4ubuntu1 entry
<dholbach> vijay2000: I think I mentioned the MOTU/Recipes page yesterday already?
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  debian/clamav-freshclam.init.in specify pidfile when starting <----
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> effie_jayx: In the directory you downloaded to there is a proposed patch for the new Ubuntu version.  You can look in there too to get an idea of the exact change.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  clamav_0.90.3-1ubuntu1.patch
<ScottK> Yes
<leonel> ScottK: are you working with  the clamav patches ?
<ward> StevenK, i can only find configure.ac , is it possible thats the right one?
<ward> it seems like it
<ScottK> leonel: No, you were going to find them for me.
<mruiz> dholbach: I sent an email to zul about the merge
<dholbach> mruiz: zul is in here :)
<leonel> so I'm not going to do the  patching ?
<mruiz> yes, I tried with ping as well! ;-)
<ScottK> leonel: You can do the patching too.
<icf7> Where do I get the debootstrap script to use a gutsy-pbuilder on feisty?
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  ok I opened the file .patch
<ScottK> What's there makes no sense to me.
* ScottK may have messed up the last merge.
* ScottK looks
<leonel> ScottK: ok
<ward> StevenK, its not possible i think, because it really needs the sourcefiles to compile gephex itself
<ward> StevenK, and if i look at installed files with ffmpeg there's no source there
<StevenK> ward: Surely it only needs the headers to compile against?
<ward> StevenK, yea probably
* ward looks again
<ward> StevenK, i'm not a coder, forgive me if i'm being stupid sometimes
<mruiz> dholbach: then, I have to wait for zul's answer...
<ward> StevenK, yeah i think it only needs the headers but i'm not sure
<ScottK> Arghh.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  what happened?
<dholbach> mruiz: no, just do it
<ward> StevenK, where can i find them on my system? google doest give me usefull info (up till now)
<mruiz> dholbach: ok... let's continue!
<dholbach> alriht
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Looks like something got messed up when I did the last merge.
<mruiz> dholbach: now, I have to modify debian/changelog
<ScottK> effie_jayx: We'll fix it now.
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Open the freshclam init.in file in your favorite text editor.
<dholbach> mruiz: link/send the diff to me, once you're done
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  it's open
<ScottK> OK.  Find the spot in the file mentioned in the patch.
<ward> StevenK, i did "apt-get source ffmpeg" instead
<ward> and replaced that with the original ffmpeg
<ward> StevenK, got the same error
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Did you find it?
<icf7> How do create a gutsy pbuilder environment in feisty? The corresponding debootstrap script is missing
<ScottK> effie_jayx: In the patch file, look at the end.  It shows you the change in the freshclam init.  That's what you want to find.
<leonel> ScottK:  once I've found  the bugs and do the patch  do I  apply with  dpatch-edit-patch and  edit the files that need patchin ?
<ScottK> leonel: Yes.  It's very much like what you did with squirrelmail.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  found it 
<leonel> ScottK: ok thanks
<ScottK> effie_jayx: The part of the line that says "$DAEMON clamav-feshclam,init.in -d" should be "$DAEMON $PIDFILE -d"
<ScottK> effie_jayx: The Ubuntu change is to tell freshclam to specify a PID file when starting.
<effie_jayx> ok
<ward> could someone please take another look at this please? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23426/
<vijay2000> hi i am doing a update of gdeskcal 
<vijay2000> the link provided in the copyright file is not found http://www.pycage.de/software_gdeskcal.htm
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I saw it in the patch
<mruiz> dholbach: I have to remove "Merge from debian unstable, remaining changes:" ?
<dholbach> vijay2000: but it'S on the same page: pycage.de
<dholbach> mruiz: hum, why?
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I changed it
<dholbach> mruiz: is there nothing worth keeping
<dholbach> ?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Check in debian/control and make sure maintainer is correct (should be MOTU).
<mruiz> dholbach: I ask you, because my comment is "Disabled all architectures except i386"
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  
<dholbach> mruiz: you can have both comments in there
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  It reads Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<ScottK> That's correct
<mruiz> dholbach: I prefer only one comment ;-)
<dholbach> mruiz: "Merge from debian unstable, remaining changes:" is a standard comment we use
<dholbach> mruiz: after that we list the changes explicitely
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Now go back to debian/changelog and update the current entry.  Describe the Ubuntu unique changes (in this case you can look at the previous entry and copy it).
<mruiz> dholbach: I know, but the last uploader (ubuntu) did it (only one comment)
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  save changes on the patch?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Also put your name/email in for the bottom line of the changelog entry
<dholbach> mruiz: then just stick to the "Merge from debian unstable, remaining changes:" + list of changes
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Yes
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  no changes to the init.in file?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Just the one you made.
<dholbach> vijay2000: rename  gDeskCal-1.01 to  gdeskcal-1.01
<ScottK> effie_jayx: When you use grab-merge it's already put in the Ubuntu unique stuff it knows about from the previous release.
<vijay2000> dholbach: thanks
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  ok
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  let me double check... I changed the patch and saved... I didn't touch clamav-freshclam.init.in
<vijay2000> dholbach: in the change log the existing version is gdeskcal (0.57.1-1ubuntu2) now the version to which we will be 
<dholbach> the upstream version is 1.01
<ScottK> OH.  Misunderstanding here.  Change clamav-freshclam.init.in, not the patch.  We'll make a new patch when we are done.  Sorry.
<dholbach> as debian does not hav it yet, it will be -0ubuntu1
<dholbach> but this is answered on MOTU/FAQ too
<vijay2000> dholbach: updating is 1.0.1 so can i write it as (1.0.1-0ubuntu1)
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> upstream version is 1.01, not 1.0.1
<dholbach> that's a difference
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  got it
<vijay2000> so its 0.1.01
<dholbach> no
<icf7> How do create a gutsy pbuilder environment in feisty? The corresponding debootstrap script is missing, is there a special package?
<dholbach> 1.01-0ubuntu1
<vijay2000> ok
<dholbach> icf7: I believe it's in feisty-backports
<dholbach> icf7: if not, you should be able to download it from http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debootstrap
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Let me know when you are done.
<mruiz> icf7: the best way is to install the Feisty's (backports) debootstrap version 
<icf7> dholbach: ty
<dholbach> anytime
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  ok... I just changed it on init.in
<mruiz> dholbach: debian/changelog -> done!
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Then go spiff up the changelog.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  good
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  you said my name and email... which changelo
<ScottK> effie_jayx: debian/changelog where it now says Ubuntu DaD
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  got it
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I saw yours before this one
<ScottK> Yes
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  the only change is  clamav-freshclam.init.in just like yours?
<effie_jayx> I didn't have to update the mantainers info
<vijay2000>  dholbach: i get the following error when i build gdeskcal http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23435/
<ScottK> effie_jayx: And the maintainer change
<effie_jayx> ok
<ScottK> effie_jayx: That's a change from Debian, but DaD already did it for you.
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  then same changes as from your merge?
<ScottK> Yes
<dholbach> vijay2000: you have to check if there's a locale directory or if things changed?
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  done
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Do you have a Gutsy pbuilder or chroot set up to test build this package?
<effie_jayx> no
<ScottK> effie_jayx: That's probably the next thing to work on.
<effie_jayx> ok
* ScottK is going to look around as it's been a while since I did it...
<ScottK> Anyone...  Can we create Gutsy pbuilders directly now or do we still have to make a Feisty one and upgrade it.
<icf7> ScottK: I just asked a similar question ;) Install the backports' pbuilder and you can directly create a gutsy pbuilder
<ScottK> icf7: Thanks
<vijay2000> dholbach: there is no locale directory in the new version 
<dholbach> ok, then you can remove the line from debian/rules
<vijay2000> ok
<mruiz> ping dholbach 
<dholbach> mruiz: pong
<dholbach> just ask your question
<mruiz> :-)
<dholbach> I'm in a meeting, but I'm sure somebody can answer it too
<mruiz> and I had some problems with the connection!
<mruiz> MOTU-mentors ML is a very good idea!
<vijay2000> after removing a line in debian/rules do we have to debuild and then do a build?
<mruiz> dholbach:  now I have to build the merge with merge-buildpackage -rfakeroot -k<mykey> ... 
<dholbach> mruiz: I don't think I ever used merge-buildpackage ... better to ask somebody else about that
<dholbach> vijay2000: yes, just try it
<mruiz> dholbach: what's your recipe ?
<dholbach> if you have the merge done, just do     debuild -S -sa -k<keyid>   to build the source package
<dholbach> but please ask in the channel
<dholbach> I'm in a meeting
<mruiz> this script says: exec dpkg-buildpackage -S -v3.0.11-13ubuntu1 -sa "$@"
<mruiz> no worries, mate
<mruiz> dholbach: sorry
<dholbach> np
<vijay2000> its not working 
<dholbach> debuild -S -sa -v3.0.11-13ubuntu1 -k<keyid>     should work too
<vijay2000> it still shows the same error 
<dholbach> mruiz: check out    man dpkg-buildpackage     for more options
<mruiz> thanks!
<mruiz> someone use merge-buildpackage ?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> mruiz: run it from teh source directory
<mruiz> hi Hobbsee. I'm following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Merging-and-Syncing, step six. In which directory must I use it?
<Hobbsee> as in ../merge-buildpackage
<mruiz> ok
* Hobbsee looks
<dholbach> vijay2000: exactly the same error message?
<vijay2000> dholbach: i fixed that ... now the other error is we have file called readme.skins in the older version which is not present in the new version
<dholbach> right, then you can change that in debian/* too
<vijay2000> you mean in debian/rules
<mruiz> Hobbsee: I did it, but 2 warnings appeared: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23445/ (final)
<Peaker> ScottK: Are you the one who does the scipy/numpy packages?
<ScottK> Peaker: We maintain packages as a team here, but I've worked on them recently.
* ScottK looks around for cover...
<ScottK> jussi01: Hello.  
<Peaker> ScottK: ah, ok.  Wanted to say that the up-to-date scipy/numpy packages don't work even upstream (the tarballs of both compile but don't really work)
<ScottK> jussi01: Did you see my comment on your package.
<Peaker> ScottK: Actually scipy's doesn't compile out of the box even
<ScottK> Peaker: OK.  Then you really need to complain with the upstream.
<jussi01> hello ScottK, thanks for your review
<ScottK> If it's a packaging problem or some bug fixing, we can help out.
<Hobbsee> mruiz: you can ignore them
<jussi01> ScottK: yes, i did :D
<mruiz> thanks Hobbsee 
<mruiz> what's about the Maintainer field in debian/control ?
<Peaker> ScottK: Yeah, I know - just wanted to let you know its not a package problem, cause I was complaining about my problems the other day :)
<mruiz> Hobbsee: I don't know if I have to modify it when I'm merging
<Hobbsee> you dont
<mruiz> ok
<ScottK> Peaker: OK.  Well the Debian numbpy update in Experimental claims compatiblity.
<ScottK> Peaker: Did you find that didn't help?
<Hobbsee> mruiz: i dont see where you're meaning?
<Peaker> ScottK: No, couldn't get the pmanager to work so I decided to just test the upstream. You say Debian folks fixed the upstream problems?
<ScottK> Peaker: Or scipy update.  I don't recall which.
<ScottK> Dunno.
<ScottK> Peaker: Wait a second.
<vijay2000> can anybody help me with this error . since daniel is busy in a meeting http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23448/
<mruiz> Hobbsee: no worries
<ScottK> Peaker: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/p/python-scipy/current/changelog  
<ScottK> Peaker: Hard to tell if fixes compatibilty addresses your issue or not, but it might.
<Peaker> ScottK: its hard to call it an "issue" -- scipy doesn't compile out of the box :) And then it spouts deprecation warnings when imported and its tests failed
<ScottK> Peaker: But the Ubuntu package compiles.
<Lutin> bluekuja: ctorrent has been uploaded to unstable, is it ok to request a sync ?
<bluekuja> Lutin, it has been uploaded in ubuntu too before unstable :)
<bluekuja> Lutin: new packages are synced automatically from debian if they are NEW
<jussi01> ScottK: how is your mirror now? still down?
<bluekuja> Lutin: until sync close on 20 june
<Lutin> bluekuja: it's not going to be autosynced, as it was uploaded in ubuntu before
<ScottK> jussi01: I tried it this morning and that one package still 404'ed
<bluekuja> Lutin, is the same version both in debian and ubuntu now, why we need a sync?
<Lutin> bluekuja: because keeping a different version in debian and ubuntu if there's no reason to do so is just pointless
<Lutin> and because if you update your package in debian then it'll get properly autosynced
<bluekuja> Lutin, go for a sync then :)
<jussi01> ScottK: ok np's
<bluekuja> Lutin, thanks for it
<Lutin> bluekuja: np
<bluekuja> Lutin, you can request a sync for gtorrent-viewer too
<mruiz> Hobbsee: afterwards, I have to test the build with pbuilder -> "sudo pbuilder build  file.dsc" . I'm right?
<bluekuja> Lutin, you'll find it in the list ;)
<pochu> Lutin: so are you in the team?
<Hobbsee> mruiz: yes
<Hobbsee> if you havent already
<Hobbsee> but that merge-buildpackage needs to be the last script that you run
<Lutin> pochu: ?
<vijay2000> anybody help me please with this error http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23448/
<mruiz> thanks Hobbsee 
<dholbach> vijay2000:     grep -r README.skins debian
<dholbach> vijay2000: that will find out the file that mentions README.skins
<Hobbsee> cp: cannot stat `README.skins': No such file or directory
<dholbach> vijay2000: remove it from there, try again
<Lutin> bluekuja: next you upload a new upstream version in ubuntu of a package which is already in debian, please do *not* discard the previous changelog entries
<pochu> Lutin: the torrent team :)
<pochu> since you're syncing every torrent app... ;)
<herzi> dholbach: ping
<Lutin> pochu: lol :)
<bluekuja> Lutin, yea.
<Lutin> pochu: no, I'm not ;)
<ScottK> LaserJock: What would you think about us going ahead and syncing python-scipy from Debian Experimental.  The version in Unstable is known not to work with the version of python-numpy we have in Gutsy. http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/p/python-scipy/current/changelog
<bluekuja> pochu: he pinged me for some syncs 
<bluekuja> pochu: for packages I maintain in debian
<bluekuja> :)
<Lutin> bluekuja: was saying that because of gtorrent-viewer
<ward> common.c:48: error: expected ')' before '*' token
<ward>      code: void align_put_bits(PutBitContext *s)
<ward> can anyone tell me whats wrong with this?
<bluekuja> Lutin, which previous entries I dropped, sorry?
<Lutin> bluekuja: all the entries from debian
<DktrKranz> dholbach, around?
<pochu> Lutin: you could join :)
<bluekuja> Lutin, those are not official, so I dropped them
<Lutin> pochu: yeah, I could . I worked on bittorrent some times ago too, but never uploaded the fixes actually
<Lutin> bluekuja: what do you mean by 'official' ? those are debian
<bluekuja> Lutin: official = made for upstream purpose
<dholbach> DktrKranz: no, in a phone call
<dholbach> drop me a mail or ask in here, sorry
<bluekuja> Lutin, the first upload was made by me
<DktrKranz> ok, I'll wait for you to finish
<DktrKranz> or I'll reply to ubuntu-motu ML
<Lutin> bluekuja: the first upload to debian ?
<bluekuja> Lutin, dont worry about it, I gonna re-apply them (it's not needed but ok)
<mruiz> I'm following the last step of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Merging-and-Syncing. I built my merged package with pbuilder, but I don't understand why I have to check the contents of the created debs (dpkg-deb -c foo.deb). Any idea?
<bluekuja> Lutin, with the next upstream release
<Lutin> bluekuja: anyways the package will be synced, don't bother
<vijay2000> dholbach: the docs file had the line  README.skins . i removed it 
<Lutin> bluekuja: but when you upload a package in debian which is already in debian, please keep the changelog
<bluekuja> Lutin, k thanks
<bluekuja> Lutin, it wasnt in debian
<Lutin> err. in ubuntu which is already in debian
<bluekuja> sounds better
<bluekuja> ^^
<vijay2000> the older version has the README.skins file in the gdeskcal-0.57.1/
<bluekuja> Lutin, #ubuntu-motu-torrent if interested in joining :)
<Lutin> bluekuja: it was in debian
<DktrKranz> mruiz, where exactly?
<bluekuja> Lutin, no it wasnt. Please check http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gtorrent-viewer.html
<DktrKranz> forget about it, found :)
<Lutin> bluekuja: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/g/gtorrent-viewer/gtorrent-viewer_0.2b-1/changelog => where does all these entries come from ?
<mruiz> DktrKranz, ;-)
<bluekuja> Lutin, from the package made locally by upstream (not for uploads purposes)
<DktrKranz> mruiz, such command shows the content of a debian package
<Lutin> sigh. they should never have been part of the debian changelog the imo. anyways, that doesn't matter
<bluekuja> Lutin, dont worry
<mruiz> thanks DktrKranz 
<bluekuja> :)
<DktrKranz> I think you have to check if it contains all the files you want to include
<DktrKranz> and to verify if documentation, desktop files, and so on, are included
<mruiz> I think that's OK ;-)
<DktrKranz> I prefer check it by installing it in a virtual machine, though :)
<herzi> dholbach: do you want to visit the social event of the linuxtag this evening?
<DktrKranz> that way I know if
<DktrKranz> 1) installs
<DktrKranz> 2) runs
<DktrKranz> 3) doesn't bother other packages
<dholbach> herzi: yes, I'll be there later
<herzi> do you already have a ticket?
<dholbach> herzi: juliux organised something
<herzi> okay
<mruiz> dholbach: I have to alert a MOTU about my merged source package ;-)
<dholbach> thanks for asking, I look forward to seeing you all later
<dholbach> mruiz: if you can upload it somewhere and announce it here, somebody will take a look at it
<dholbach> vijay2000: same goes for you - if you have finished the source package and can upload it somewhere, that'd be great
<mruiz> dholbach: ok. Which files do you need?
<herzi> dholbach: btw, did you finally find the source code for me?
<dholbach> debdiff from the debian to the merged ubuntu version should be fine
<dholbach> herzi: I found it, but I failed to make it build
<dholbach> herzi: how long will you be in berlin?
<dholbach> herzi: I can show you the stuff, but I'm sure you'll be somewhat disappointed
<dholbach> vijay2000: if you can upload the .diff.gz .orig.tar.gz and .dsc somewhere, that'd be cool
<dholbach> mruiz, vijay2000: please mail me the URL, if you don't find a reviewer here
<dholbach> I'll call it a day soon
<vijay2000> dholbach: where should i upload
<dholbach> vijay2000: do you have a place where you can upload the package?
<vijay2000> no
<dholbach> vijay2000: if not, look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<dholbach> if everything fails, send by mail
<dholbach> I'll leave in a bit
<jussi01> Hei, if someones got time: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5334 a review/advocacy? would be wonderful!
<vijay2000> ok 
* dholbach calls it a day
<dholbach> have a nice day and see you tomorrow
<jussi01> bye dholbach
<ScottK> jussi01: I'm trying to build it again now.
<jussi01> ScottK: I uploaded the changed one, did you see?
<ScottK> Yes
<jussi01> :D
<jussi01> ScottK: Ill be away for a little while. Back in about  an hour
<leonel> ScottK: for the  2 bugs  I'll try to fix  should I report a bug in launchpad  for each  or  just  1 report  for both ?
<ScottK> leonel: One bug is good.  Please link it to the CVE reports.
<leonel> ScottK:  ok
<leonel> ScottK:  reported ..
<ScottK> OK.  Let me know if you need help.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  ping
<leonel> ScottK: I will need  and let you know ...
<mathiaz> I need some guidance on how to create a preinst script. Is there a template for preinst script ?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Hi
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Next step is pbuilder...
<effie_jayx> ScottK, :D
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Are you running Feisty?
<effie_jayx> yes
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Make sure you have the feisty-backports repository enabled and then install pbuilder.
<evand> pochu: whenever you get a chance, can you take another look at #117834
<pochu> bug 117834
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117834 in amule "Please sponsor amule upload" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117834
<pochu> evand: sure :)
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  got it
<evand> thanks a bunch
<ScottK> effie_jayx: There is more than one way to set up pbuilder.  The easiest in my book is to use the pbuilder-feisty script found here: http://revu.tauware.de/~laserjock/ - You will want to rename it pbuilder-gutsy before you run it.
<nixternal> there is also a write up on the wiki
<nixternal> you also need the custom pbuilderrc
<nixternal> that is where you make all of the groovy settings
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  got it
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Put the script somewhere convenient and then run sh pbuilder-gutsy create (it'll ask you for your password, this is normal)
<ScottK> effie_jayx: That's going to take a while, so let me know when you have it started.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I have started it
<ScottK> OK.  Now go back to your clamav package.  In the dir that you put it, you will see merge-buildpackage
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  got it 
<ScottK> Go ahead and run that.  That'll build the source package.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  the sh pbuilder-feisty hasn't finished yet.. I started it a few minutes ago
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  shall I wait till that is done?
<jussi01> ScottK: Im back, how did the build go?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Did you make pbuilder-feisty or pbuilder-gutsy?
<ScottK> jussi01: Just commented.  Have a look.
<effie_jayx> gutsy sorry
<ScottK> OK.  That's good.
<jussi01> ScottK: thanks
<effie_jayx> ScottK,   sh pbuilder-gutsy create
<effie_jayx> my bad
<ScottK> effie_jayx: We can go ahead and make the debdiff while we wait.  Yes.  that's correct.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  ok
<jussi01> ScottK: the guy gave me both 2006 and 2007 as the copy right years. should I have put both? or 2007 only?
<ScottK> Both
<ScottK> effie_jayx: From that same dir, do debdiff clamav-0.90.3-1.dsc clamav-0.90-1ubuntu1.dsc > clamav-merge.debdiff
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Once you have that done, pastebin the contents of the output file.
<jussi01> ScottK: is there a particular format? or just 2006/2007 ?
<ScottK> That's fine. 
<jussi01> :D
<LaserJock> ScottK: I say go for it, regarding scipy, we have time to stablize it and for sure scipy and numpy need to be matched
<ScottK> LaserJock: Thanks.
<ScottK> jussi01: Did you know that the mnemosyne predecessor Pyqt memaid has a Debian package?
<jussi01> ScottK: no, I did not know that... :(
<ScottK> It's not a problem.  It's a good thing.  
<ScottK> jussi01: Go hunt up the debian/copyright file in memaid-pyqt and you'll have your missing copyright information.  Google is good like this.
<ScottK> jussi01: Also, debian/copyright doesn't necessarily list everyone in the Authors file if not all of them are copyright holders.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I tried executing the merge-buildpackage
<jussi01> ScottK: ok :D
<ScottK> jussi01: You will also need to double check that nothing you are doing conflicts with anything installed by that package.
<ScottK> effie_jayx: What happened?
<effie_jayx> but it says It can't read the debian/changelog
<pochu> evand: it looks good to me, I'd upload it if I were a MOTU :)
<effie_jayx> and dpkg-configure error cant determine the source file
<ScottK> effie_jayx: cd into the clamav dir and then sh ../merge-buildpackage
<RainCT> keescook: Hi. Could you sponsor bug 117156 please? This one works (I did a deb with that one and have it installed :P)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117156 in flobopuyo "Flobopuyo has no icon for the .desktop file" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117156
<evand> pochu: heh, thanks!
<mruiz> bye all!
<RainCT> keescook: (will look at the other two tomorrow)
* jussi01 sighs... memaid-pyqt is in our repos ScottK....
<ScottK> Yes
<stijn_pol> Some newbie stuff: If a bug is reported in feisty and package is also available in gutsy, should I make a debdiff for gutsy, feisty or both??? :s
<ScottK> But you're packaging it's replacement.  This is fine.
<RainCT> stijn_pol: gutsy
<ScottK> stijn_pol: Fix gutsy first and then do an SRU for Feisty if the bug is severe enough to qualify.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I am there, the file merge-buildpackage isn't there thoug
<ScottK> effie_jayx: when you do ../filename it looke in the dir above.
<stijn_pol> RainCT, ScottK: thanks, probably not sever enough...:-)
<jussi01> ScottK: I want to ask a newbie question... how do I get the source out of the dsc file?
<RainCT> jussi01: dpkg-source -x <package_version-...>.dsc
<jussi01> RainCT: thanks
<pochu> evand: just FYI, some people like you ask them before doing their merges. I'm happy you've done amule's merge, though :)
<ScottK> jussi01: Or since it's in our repos you could just do apt-get source packagename.
<evand> pochu: Yeah, I realized that this afternoon in the MOTU session.  Sorry about that, but I'm glad you're happy.
<jussi01> ScottK: duh... now i fell really silly... but its nice to know that command :D
<pochu> evand: btw, you're now an official ubiquity developer, right?
<ScottK> jussi01: This is how learning happens.  Don't sweat it.
<jussi01> :)
<ScottK> effie_jayx: How's it going?
<evand> pochu: indeed
* pochu wishes you good luck :)
<RainCT> jussi01: (if you are on Feisty edit the file /etc/apt/sources.list changing feisty with gutsy on all lines that start with deb-src to get the latest package source from Gutsy with apt-get source)
<evand> now I just have to crawl up to core-dev so I can upload without sponsorship
<evand> thanks pochu 
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I can't get merge-buidlpackage executed
<jussi01> RainCT: why would I do that?
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: are you running it in the source directory?
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  nope
<LaserJock> so, I missed both MOTU Q&A sessions, how did it go?
<effie_jayx> the file isn't there the file is outside
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: you should be
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  ok
<ScottK> effie_jayx: sh ../merge-buildpackage?
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: from the source dir, use ../merge-buildpackage
<pochu> evand: if you want to implement a new feature, I'd be happy if it were this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=301761 :)
<jussi01> ScottK: what do I need to include from here: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23466/ ? 
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  got it...
<ScottK> jussi01: Looking
<RainCT> jussi01: well, that's if you want to get the packages from Gutsy.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I got an error...
<jussi01> RainCT: :D ok...
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Please pastebin the error
<jussi01> ScottK: if you didnt realise thats th copyright file from memaid... but im sure you did... :D
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23469/
<ScottK> jussi01: Yes.  I'd seen it already via google.  See http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23468/
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Looking
<xxxxx1> LaserJock: we don't have a log?
<jussi01> ScottK: thanks
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: add <-rfakeroot> to your command
<Hobbsee> without the <>'s
<Hobbsee> dh_testroot: You must run this as root (or use fakeroot).
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Install the package fakeroot and then do fakeroot ../merge-buildpackage
<ScottK> or the way Hobbsee said to do it (it's better)
<Hobbsee> seeing as you need to build everything with -rfakeroot
<jussi01> ScottK: does this look better? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23471/ (I thought better to do this than upload to revu... again...)
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> effie_jayx: What's your launchpad ID?
<ScottK> jussi01: Much better, but see http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23472/ and a question?  Where does upstream say you can use a later version of GPL?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Yes, I tend to use dbuild when not merging, so I often forget about the fakeroot bit.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  effie-jayx
<ScottK> effie_jayx: OK.  I'm assigning you the Gutsy task for the clamav vulnerabilities this merge will fix.
<leonel> ScottK:  looks it's gonna be easy ...
<ScottK> leonel: Great.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  ok
<jussi01> ScottK: hmmm, I copy pasted that bit from another package thinking it was standard.... :(
<ScottK> jussi01: Copyright stuff you need to be very careful with.
<jussi01> ScottK: yes... :( I was under the impression that there was something in the gpl about that, but i havent read it closely enough to be sure...
<ScottK> jussi01: The program is licensed as it is licensed.  Look in the upstream LICENSE file
<jussi01> ScottK: ok :D Ill fix it :D
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23474/
* ScottK looks for effie_jayx
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Let me look into that.
<effie_jayx> ok
<keescook> RainCT: I updated that bug report (117156); it still needs some tweaking.  you're very close, though!  good work.  :)
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Very strange.  I don't get that.
<RainCT> keescook: ok thanks, will try to finish it this night (I've to go soon)
<jussi01> ScottK: My legal english skills suck, but what exactly does section 9 of the gpl2 say about this? ie. http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23475/ My interpretation is that it means that I can have that bit there...but I could be completely wrong...
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  probably me... :S
<RainCT> btw, do you guys keep the source of the packages you did until they are uploaded or only the debdiff?
<ScottK> jussi01: If the Program specifies ... "any
<ScottK> later version" - Where did they specify and any later version?
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: could you pastebin workk/clamav/clamav-0.90.3/debian/patches/24_nullmailer_ftbfs somwhere?
<effie_jayx> sure ..
<Hobbsee> if it's dying
<jussi01> ScottK: no, it doesnt specify a version so any version will do...
<ScottK> jussi01: That's not how I read it.  I read it you have to specify a later version is OK.  As I understand it that's the usual interpretation.
<jussi01> ScottK: 
<jussi01> If the Program does not specify a version number of
<jussi01> this License, you may choose any version ever published by the Free Software
<jussi01> Foundation.
<ScottK> keescook: Are you going to be around to upload leonel's clamav fixes when he has it done?
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23477/
<keescook> ScottK: I think so, sure.  I should be online for the next 6 or 7 hours.
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: does it work if you patch it with patch -p1...?
<ScottK> jussi01: The way I read that is that they included GPL V2 in LICENSE, so they specified.  It's better to be conservative about what rights the author gives than liberal.
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  how can I check?
<jussi01> ScottK: ok :D sorry for being so annoying about it.... 
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I think effie_jayx's copy got corrupted somehow as it builds fine for me.
<ScottK> jussi01: No problem.
<Hobbsee> ahh
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I must have messed it up :S
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Help is welcome here.
* Hobbsee is getting some sleep before meetings
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Here's what I think we should do...
<effie_jayx> ok
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Make a new dir somewhere else and grab the package from DaD again.
<ScottK> Then copy your changelog and clamav-feshclam.init.in files from the old one to the new.
<effie_jayx> ok
<ScottK> Then try to build it again.
<ScottK> You are running a current Feisty, right?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: you're doing well, keep ti up :)
<jussi01> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23479/ better?? :D 
<ScottK> jussi01: To whom does the phrase Original Author apply?
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  yes
<evand> pochu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbiquityForumIdeas :)
<ScottK> OK.  Just checking, because that's what I have too.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I am already downloading throyg the grab-merge
<jussi01> ScottK: gah, i thought i removed that... oops :D
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Great.
<jussi01> ScottK: Im going to have a sauna, back soon :D
<ScottK> jussi01: Enjoy
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  same mistake
<effie_jayx> it must be my file
<ScottK> Very strange
<ScottK> try this instead then ...
<ScottK> debuild -S -uc
<effie_jayx> same mistake
<ScottK> Hmmm...  Anyone else got ideas on this (Hobbsee??)
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  am I missing any packages?
<nixternal> ScottK: what is it?
* nixternal wants to look
<ScottK> nixternal: effie_jayx is trying a merge of clamav, but can't get the source package to build.  Works here for me.
<ScottK> effie_jayx: What was the pastebin for the error again?
<nixternal> are you building it in a pbuilder or with debuild
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23474/
<leonel> ScottK:  do I have to update the pbuillder ?
<ScottK> nixternal: Building the source package
<ScottK> leonel: It'd be a good idea
<nixternal> ahh, just with ./configure && make && make install?
<nixternal> ahh merge
<nixternal> ahhhhhhhh
<ScottK> effie_jayx: If you get to the point where you've had enough, let us know.  These sort of complications are unusual.
<nixternal> unexpected operator..does that have to do with any weird chars?
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I ma patient
* ScottK starts thinking about locale differences.
<nixternal> I had a similar issue with chars that were hyphenated or not abcdef...
<nixternal> ScottK: exactly
<ScottK> effie_jayx: OK.  Don't want to scare you off.
<nixternal> I can't think of the proper words damnit ;)
* ScottK knows zip about locale issues.  Good thing you showed up.
<ScottK> nixternal: We'll wait while you boot out of Vista
<nixternal> effie_jayx: look at the file that 24_* is trying to patch
* nixternal is in Kubuntu all of the time ;)
<ScottK> ;-)
<nixternal> see if the line that is causing the problem has <F4> or something similar
<nixternal> instead of the character as displayed in the patch, or vice-versa
<nixternal> the funny thing is, the custom ascii chars will show fine in vi and emacs, but if you cat the file, they show up as <F4>
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  looks fine on vi
<nixternal> I just worked on a package that had a similar issue, but I can't remember what it was
<effie_jayx> shall use cat
<nixternal> effie_jayx: look at it...yes
<nixternal> or less rather
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  looks fine to me
<nixternal> the patch and the file that is supposed to be patched?
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  the pactch looks ok...
<nixternal> check the file that is supposed to be patched with less
<nixternal> I am trying to remember exactly the error I got that was similar
<superm1> nixternal, would I be able to get a second opinion from you on a package that ScottK and Lutin were looking over yesterday?  There was some questioning as to if the naming is OK to use
<jussi01> hello again... :D
<nixternal> heh, I am probably the worst person to ask, I am a packaging no0b..but I would give you my 2 cents still :)
<superm1> nixternal, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5325.
<nixternal> speaking of naming, I need to rename my Debian package libhttp
<nixternal> revu looks broke to me
<nixternal> mod_python error
<superm1> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5325 (maybe that period threw it)(
<nixternal> heh, silly me..I didn't even catch that
<nixternal> is it a library?
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  they look fine to me :S
<nixternal> effie_jayx: hrmm...
<effie_jayx> shall I do this without using locales ...
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  I gotta run... I will keep at this latter tonight...
<nixternal> roger that
<effie_jayx> cool :D
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I owe you... 
<ScottK> I've got to run.  I'll be back later.
<leonel> ScottK:   I have no patch  or difff   I will apply the patch to the source   but dpatch-edit-patch  asked for a patchname  I ran  with   dpatch-edit-patch pdf-ole-bugfix.patch
<leonel> is this right ?
<nixternal> libhdhomerun is actually a set of utilities right? or does it create .so, .la and such library files?
<nixternal> it won't make here
<superm1> nixternal, it just makes a utility
<superm1> but it used to make .so files that were used too
<superm1> they have since then removed this functionality
<nixternal> let me guess, they had an issue using lib*?
<superm1> exactly
<superm1> whereas there are packages that do this
<nixternal> ya, I don't think it should be lib either
<superm1> and the reason i wanted to name it that is because of upstream
<superm1> they call it libhdhomerun there
<nixternal> you could ask in #debian-mentors possibly on OFTC
<superm1> oftc?
<nixternal> I notice Red Hat has it as libhdhomerun as well
<nixternal> OFTC IRC where Debian hangs out
<nixternal> there should be a document somewhere that explains Debian package naming
<superm1> given redhat having it as libhdhomerun, I would think it only makes sense for us to do the same thing
<superm1> and the resultant binary package is still hdhomerun-config (not libhdhomerun)
<nixternal> the package name should carry the same name as the binary...seeing as this is being built as a single binary, then it should possibly be hdhomerun
<nixternal> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Package
<superm1> which it does; its just the source package that does not
<nixternal> you could always email the Debian Mentors email list asking for their opinion on it as well
<superm1> I just poked in there , without any immediate responses
<nixternal> I just asked in the mentors channel for an opinion on it
<superm1> am i in the wrong mentors channel.... ##debian-mentors is where freenode directed me
<nixternal> yes, you should be using the irc.oftc.net
<superm1> oh... OFTC
<leonel> ScottK: clamav  0.90.2 patched ... and debdiff sent  to lauchpad .
<fretchen> Hello
<fretchen> if  i have a problem with a package in the universe and i dont get a answer for a question in the forum, where should i ask then?
<fretchen> is the time to post a bug in the launchpad then?
<LaserJock> fretchen: if it's a bug and not a user issue
<LaserJock> either bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu or answers.launchapd.net/ubuntu for the latter case
<fretchen> i think that it is a bug
<fretchen> because an official example in the doc does not work
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5314 ?
<LaserJock> fretchen: for what app?
<fretchen> building an python-extension with boost does not work
<fretchen> and i found absoultly no solution anywher
<nixternal> ryanakca: are you planning on maintaining the package in Debian at all?
<theCore> fretchen: perhaps, I could you help you with your extension problem (I'm working on Python core, right now)
<fretchen> i described the problem here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=459853
<fretchen> i hope i am not to fast with asking here
<theCore> fretchen: just to be sure, you installed boost development libraries, right?
<ryanakca> nixternal: ummm... I could...
<ryanakca> nixternal: why?
<nixternal> that way there you can just sync it with Ubuntu
<nixternal> I have started doing new packages in Debian and then just requesting a sync to Ubuntu
<fretchen> i have installed the libboost-dev, the libboost-python-dev and boost-build
<theCore> fretchen: ok, let me see then ... 
<ryanakca> nixternal: hmm... but then, I suppose I'd need a debian comp? or someone with free vmware-server hosting?
<nixternal> or how about a pbuilder-sid ;p
<ryanakca> nixternal: yes, but to test?
<theCore> ryanakca: pbuilder login?
<nixternal> you can setup Debian in VirtualBox as well
<ryanakca> theCore: hmm. wont that mess up my pbuilder image? or will it just erase once I log out?
<theCore> ryanakca: I don't know. I will have to test it out
<ryanakca> nixternal: I said vmware-server hosting because my box doesn't have enough RAM to run VirtualBox or vmware-server ... :(
<theCore> ryanakca: but I strongly suspect that it doesn't change your image
<ryanakca> theCore: cool
<nixternal> I don't use dvorak otherwise I could help test it
<ryanakca> theCore: login  Logs into the chroot, and cleaned up afterwards.  Any changes you make will not be kept.  Only use this for temporary and debugging purposes.
<nixternal> ryanakca: you can create another pbuilder image, separate from the one you use
<nixternal> I have Dapper, Edgy, Feisty, Gutsy, and Sid
<theCore> oh, ryanakca you are a Dvorak user now :)
<ryanakca> nixternal: hmmm. I'll create a sid one, and if it works, could you try getting it into debian?
<ryanakca> theCore: Yeah
* theCore ugh!
<nixternal> ryanakca: I will show YOU how to get it into Debian :)
<theCore> good luck with laptops :)
<ryanakca> theCore: lol, much better than QWERTY :P
<ryanakca> why?
<ryanakca> nixternal: cool, thanks
<theCore> ryanakca: most (if not all) are Qwerty
<ryanakca> nixternal: if it's long, feel free to go shower and get ready for the meeting first
<fretchen> thecore: the problem is also discussed there:http://mail.python.org/pipermail/c++-sig/2007-January/011783.html
<fretchen> but i can add this too in my post
<theCore> and using the shell with a Dvorak layout is painful
<ryanakca> theCore: so... you just change the keyboard map and ignore the printed keys
<nixternal> ryanakca: all you do is create the package, file an ITP bug, put it on mentors.debian.net and make sure it states in the changelog that it closes the ITP bug, and then you file an RFS and seend it to the debian-mentors mailing list
<nixternal> oh ya, I need to shower yet
<ryanakca> cool
<ryanakca> lol
<nixternal> it is 3pm here, I leave for class at 5pm
<nixternal> meeting at 4pm
<nixternal> jeesh
<ryanakca> theCore: It also adds a small layer of security here... nobody in my house knows how to use Dvorak... so they can't write anything and they'd have a hard time logging in...
<ryanakca> nixternal: Chicago isn't EST
<ryanakca> ?
<nixternal> CST
<nixternal> -0500 during daylight savings
<ryanakca> hmm. learn something new every day :)
<nixternal> ya, if it wasn't for Ubuntu last year, I would have never known that either
<ryanakca> ah
* ryanakca bbl
<nixternal> I would have always thought we were -0600 all the time
<theCore> ryanakca: eh, I got a Das keyboard for that :)
<theCore> ryanakca: no key labels at all
<nixternal> theCore: you are hardcore
<theCore> well ...
<nixternal> I bought one of the letterless keyboard back in the late 90s, and I realized I wasn't all that elite
<nixternal> it would be hard for me to change from qwerty. I have been using it for more than 20 years...and currently I can hit up to 180 words per minutes
<theCore> I been using mine for now about 5 months  
<nixternal> 201 is the fastest I have ever hit during a timed typing test at a job fair
<nixternal> I hit 201 for like 5 seconds
<theCore> ouch, I don't type that fast, though
<nixternal> holy smokes..I just wanted to see who is the fastest typer in teh world
<nixternal> I am 11 words off from the record, however I can't maintain it
<nixternal> this woman typed at 150wpm for 50 minutes
<nixternal> holy smokes
<nixternal> after a minute my hands are done
<theCore> I bought a letterless keyboard to free myself from always peeking at my keyboard
<nixternal> 170wpm with a dvorak
<theCore> yeah, she is crazy
<nixternal> I learned young to not peak at it...my mom and dad would get annoyed when I would hunt and peck on the trs80
<nixternal> I do peak when shift+number though
<theCore> she also one of the most wanted secretary in the U.S. 
<nixternal> every now and then
<theCore> ok, back to fretchen's problem 
<nixternal> hehe
<theCore> fretchen: that certainly looks like a bug 
<theCore> fretchen: I never used boost, so you will have to give a few minutes to learn the basics
<fretchen> no prob
<_MMA_> Sorry. OT but this is cool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjxVXKEJnM4&mode=related&search= Sorry if Im late.
<crimsun> you crazy Vista user, you.
<crimsun> I can type maybe 20 WPM.
<nixternal> wait a second
<nixternal> I should put Vista on highlight, that way there I can find out when you are talking badly about me ;p
<crimsun> ah...social engineering at its finest/worst.
<theCore> fretchen: ok ... I am getting the same error
<ryanakca> nixternal: ITP == http://www.debian.org/Bugs/ ?
<fretchen> this is good
<nixternal> ryanakca: www.debian.org in docs look at the new maintainer guide and policy for all of your info
<beuno> ryanakca: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/
<fretchen> ...or not i am not sure :D
<nixternal> and with debian bugs, you file them via email
<nixternal> wnpp, ya thanks beuno 
<beuno> :D
<ryanakca> nixternal: ah, thanks
<ryanakca> nixternal: hmm. that's wierd
<nixternal> hehe
* ryanakca likes LP better :P
<beuno> ryanakca: there's a reason why they went to all the trouble of building a new system from scratch   :D
<nixternal> ryanakca: there is also reportbug, but for some reason ours doesn't report to debian
<crimsun> oh thank deity, 1.0.14 is finally out.
<hendrixski> every time I think I have this packaging thing figured out, turns out  I don't
<crimsun> packaging is easy, just ask nixternal.
<crimsun> in fact, if you have any questions about anything, just ask nixternal.
<nixternal> heh, I know absolutely nothing about packaging
<crimsun> (he's obviously lying, since he maintains packages in Debian)
<hendrixski> well... I'm here to ask... I gather this is the right place to do so :-)~
<nixternal> I don't maintain anything in Debian, so nannynannybooboo
<hendrixski> :-( I made a first.py and a setup.py, then ran python setyp.py bdist which made a tar.gz ... ran dh_make -e myaddress -f dir/location.tar.gz
<hendrixski> so it ran... it made a debian/ directory, and even a .orrig.tar .. but no .dsc file :-(
<nixternal> hendrixski: dh_make doesn't create the dsc file
<nixternal> you need to fix up the debian directory first
<nixternal> and then in the root dir (i.e., from the debian/ dir cd ../) and then build it with either debuild or dpkg-buildpackage
<hendrixski> oh.. ok, so I didn't do anythong _wrong_ yet, just missing the last step?
<nixternal> dh_make just debianizes the package and creates the orig file
<nixternal> hendrixski: you got it :)
<hendrixski> oh... Ok... I just realized there's another page to this manual I'm looking at
<hendrixski> LOL
* hendrixski slaps himself so that you don't have to
<fretchen> the ubuntu packaging guide was a nice help
<crimsun> (I toldya he knows.)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> crimsun: I know the minimal stuff, like how to ask crimsun for help when packaging :p
<fretchen> for me until now(but i didn't had to pack anything until now ;) )
<crimsun> psht, I know nothing.
<nixternal> ya, I wish I could say that about you crimsun, but ummm...I can't ;)
<nixternal> debian-mentors is a champ as well when it comes to learning how to package
<hendrixski> nixternal, I've mastered the art of asking crimsun too... I've been here a few times before and he's helped me out
<nixternal> I need to work on my library package and rename it
<hendrixski> ooh... debian mentors ...  nice  :-) that's Debian wide, not just Ubuntu right?
<theCore> LaserJock: btw, do you still maintain the packaging guide?
<crimsun> hendrixski: correct
<crimsun> theCore: he welcomes patches
<superm1> nixternal, still no response in debian-mentors.  would it not be enough to let it go on the basis that other packages have source packages named as such. (Like libextractor-python)
<crimsun> what's the issue?
<superm1> the naming of the source package on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5325
<superm1>  silicon dust names it libhdhomerun
<superm1> so the source package is also named as such
<hendrixski> :-( debuild failed ...  "unrepresentable changes to source"
<theCore> crimsun: eh
<superm1> but produces a binary package called hdhomerun-config
<fretchen> theCore: should i do anything else and which way will it go?
<theCore> I should send a couple then
<crimsun> superm1: it doesn't actually generate a library?
<superm1> Not anymore
<superm1> older versions did afaik
<superm1> so historically its been named libhdhomerun
<theCore> fretchen: it seems bjam is nasty when it's used outside of boost build tree 
<crimsun> superm1: we're not tied to upstream's naming schema
<theCore> fretchen: so you probably want to try to build boost by yourself
<xxxxx1> bye guys
<superm1> nixternal also mentioned that red hat named their source package libhdhomerun as well though
<fretchen> =-Oi have never packed anything until now
<fretchen> but well there is always a first time
<LaserJock> theCore: depends on the definition of "maintain"
<theCore> LaserJock: ah hello!
<theCore> LaserJock: maintain = writing stuff for it 
<theCore> fretchen: you won't need to package it
<LaserJock> theCore: I haven't for a while
<fretchen> okay
<fretchen> write
<LaserJock> theCore: I've got a pile of 7 bugs to get fixed
<fretchen> right
<theCore> fretchen: just download libboost, and compile in your home dir
<fretchen> my mistake
<LaserJock> theCore: I just haven't found a lot of time lately
<leonel> ScottK: dapper's  clamav  can be done  too  but will be  88.2   but   how  usefull can  this  be ?
<LaserJock> theCore: and lately I mean, so far this year ;-)
<theCore> LaserJock: same here
* hendrixski hozed his pbuilder ... hozed it good
<theCore> the Google Summer of Code is demanding for me, right now
<fretchen> well thx for help
<fretchen> i will look at it
<fretchen> bye e1
<crimsun> superm1: a bit odd, but I don't see anything majorly wrong with the source package on revu
<theCore> fretchen: good luck
<crimsun> superm1: might want to fix up the minor bits, like the misspelling in debian/control
<fretchen> should i describe the success our failure at the forum or is it senseless?
<superm1> crimsun, misspelling?
<crimsun>   * Performing scans
<crimsun>   * Peforming firmware upgrades
<hendrixski> I don't see a command in "man pbuilder" for deleting the existing pbuilder and starting again?
<superm1> oh yup :)
<hendrixski> oh... or can I just run pbuilder create again, and it'll replace the existing one?? :-)
<theCore> hendrixski: why delete, when you can update?
<superm1> crimsun, i was particularly concerned with the man page that I wrote - was it written correctly and includes correct info?
<hendrixski> theCore, I tried... it hit a wall and just wouldn't go
<superm1> erg better wording s/correct info/necessary info for a man page/
<theCore> hendrixski: then just smash /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz in the outer space :)
<crimsun> superm1: please clarify in hdhomerun_config.1 under what terms it is distributed
<joejaxx> Hello ALl
<joejaxx> All*
<superm1> Ok crimsun.
<LaserJock> is there an easy CLI tool to check the amount of network activity?
<fargiolas> Lamego: thanks for the new gnome-mastermind package :)
<crimsun> LaserJock: ntop, darkstat
<hendrixski> theCore, I'll try that... deleteing the base.tgz and creating a new one.
* hendrixski hopes that the problem is the soft link to pbuilder
<crimsun> although "amount of network activity" is ambiguous regarding what the target is
<Lamego> fargiolas, yw :)
<theCore> oh, sweet. I just found a good free book on assembly programming with GNU as/ld
<theCore> ok, I need to get back to my project
<theCore> later guys
<ScottK> leonel: Very useful for those that don't have backports enabled.
<superm1> crimsun, i'll make those two changes later - but you would say the source package name is going to be OK right?
<crimsun> superm1: right.
<crimsun> 16:42 < crimsun> superm1: a bit odd, but I don't see anything majorly wrong with the source package on revu
<ScottK> leonel: For your debdiff, version should be ubuntu1.1, not ubuntu2 and security is misspelled.
<superm1> oh right :).  Thanks
<anji> hi, does anyone know how I can force overlapping subtitles in mplayer? -overlabsub does nothing :( .. using latest feisty build
<anji> err, wrong channel
<anji> sorry
<leonel> ok
<leonel> ScottK: how can I fix it  without redoing everything ?
<hendrixski> :-) ok, so re-installed pbuilder and now that works :-) 
<hendrixski> but the .dsc still generates problems saying there's no makefile found :-( I don't see a makefile in other python packages so... what can I be doing wrong?
<ScottK> leonel: Fix debian/changelog, make a new source package, make a new debdiff.  Or, since it doesn't change the number of lines, CAREFULLY edit the existing debidff and re-upload it to LP
<YokoZar> When's the next MOTU meeting where I can get MOTU status?
<leonel> ScottK:  clamav (0.90.2-0ubuntu1.1) feisty-security; urgency=low
<YokoZar> Or does this happen entirely over mail?
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> Then ping keescook when it's ready
* keescook looks around
<keescook> what bug #?
<pochu> YokoZar: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment
<YokoZar> Yeah I'm reading that now, thanks
<leonel> ScottK:  uploaded
<YokoZar> So this is a bit tricky, since my sponsor (Stephen Hermann) just left the project.  Now there's no one to upload the Wine packages I've been making.
<LaserJock> people can still sponsor you
<LaserJock> it's just going to be a bit more difficult
<LaserJock> as they won't be as familiar with it
<YokoZar> Honestly he was more or less straight importing the packages, and I've been "should be MOTU" since MOTUs started existing, heh
<blueyed> Hi masters of the universe :)
<blueyed> I'm one of the upstream developers for b2evolution, which has a very old release in Debian.
<blueyed> It gets imported from Debian to Universe. What's the best way to take over maintainership for it?
<Hobbsee> hey blueyed :)
<LaserJock> blueyed: do you want to maintain it in Debian or Ubuntu?
<blueyed> LaserJock: rather in Ubuntu, as I'm using it. But of course, I'd like the changes to be available in Debian, too.
<LaserJock> blueyed: well, in Ubuntu we team maintain things
<LaserJock> so anybody can touch any package, more or less
<LaserJock> blueyed: so have at it
<blueyed> So I could provide a debdiff for the current stable release to update it?
<LaserJock> you'll just need to get a MOTU to sponsor the upload for you
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-01
<LaserJock> blueyed: well, if it's a new upstream release I'd rather see the complete new source package
<Hobbsee> blueyed: you may want to consider taking the package in debian, and any upload you make to there will sync to ubuntu, assuming the autosyncer is on.
<LaserJock> debdiffs of new upstream releases can be a bit nasty
<blueyed> Hobbsee: that seems to be the way to go, but I think it's easier to submit things using Launchpad than the Debian tracker.
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> you can certianly work from Ubuntu
<Hobbsee> another email hater?  *g*
<Peaker> LaserJock: isn't that a little dangerous? Anyone can gain some trust by doing some package work, and then sneak in evil modifications? Or are there checks and balances in place to prevent that?
<blueyed> LaserJock: ok. I would then provide the whole package. I should also contact the current upstream first, of course.
<LaserJock> and send your packages to the Debian maintainer too
<blueyed> Hobbsee: yeah, the main reason :D
<Hobbsee> hehe
<LaserJock> Peaker: that's what sponsorship is for
<LaserJock> blueyed: I'm with you on the email thing, Debians BTS hates me
<Peaker> LaserJock: sponsership prevents someone from sneaking in evil modifications?
<LaserJock> Peaker: yes
<LaserJock> that's the idea anyway
<blueyed> Another question: if there's a main breakage in a package, is it worth being fixed in -updates?
<LaserJock> blueyed: depends on how sever
<Peaker> LaserJock: Where can I read about Ubuntu's concept of sponsership?
<LaserJock> Peaker: what's there to read?
<ajmitch> hi
<LaserJock> MOTUs sponsor non-MOTUs
<Peaker> LaserJock: sponsership as I know it is just funding a project, doesn't add up here :)
<Peaker> LaserJock: but English is not my first language, anyway
<LaserJock> Peaker: oh, sorry. in this context it means an person that uploads for another
<LaserJock> *somebody* with upload rights has to upload
<Peaker> and there's a pool of trusted sponsers who review the diffs they're uploading?
<jmg> think of it as your upload being sponsored by another
<LaserJock> Peaker: those are called MOTU
<LaserJock> for  Universe anyway
<Peaker> ah, thanks
<blueyed> LaserJock: I'm talking about bug 88617 - it's the key feature of duplicity and it breaks with Python 2.5.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 88617 in duplicity "incremental backup does not work" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88617
<Peaker> and becoming a MOTU is something that doesn't allow sneaking in evil people easily, I suppose
<LaserJock> Peaker: well, we put our signature on each upload, and our rights are given by the Ubuntu Technical Board
<LaserJock> Peaker: if you screw up, it get's noticed ;-)
<blueyed> LaserJock: It would be nice if someone could change "Importance" there, btw. I've already attached a debdiff - without changelog; it's kind of my first.
<Peaker> LaserJock: could be a silent backdoor or something :)
<LaserJock> and if you notice there are a lot of MOTU running around, it does take some trust and experience
<ScottK> keescook: Bug 117988
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117988 in clamav "Remote attack in OLE parser and PDF handler" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117988
<LaserJock> blueyed: hmm, is Medium good?
<blueyed> LaserJock: for this package, I would consider it "High".
<blueyed> You always get full backups, because any file gets considered new.
<pochu> blueyed: you should think that's an Ubuntu bug, not an upstream bug :)
<pochu> !importance
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about importance - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<LaserJock> blueyed: done
<LaserJock> blueyed: I don't think it really matters much, but it makes you feel better :-)
<keescook> ScottK: heh, wasn't flagged as security.  :)  fixing that now
<blueyed> pochu: "Has a severe impact on a non-core application" seems to fit (Medium)
<blueyed> Thanks, LaserJock. What about uploading this to -updates then? :)
<LaserJock> blueyed: not quite that easy ;-)
<LaserJock> blueyed: it needs to be fixed and then it needs to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<LaserJock> *fixed in gutsy
<pochu> blueyed: yeah, that fits it :)
<LaserJock> ok, I changed it to Medium, just because I love giving people lots of bugmail ;-)
<keescook> leonel: looks like you didn't update the debian/patches/00list file, so the patch isn't applied during the build.  :(
<keescook> leonel: do you have any reproducers to test with, btw?
<leonel> keescook: I patched  the source  searching  for diffs  from the new version     so I didn't    do a  patch  < patch.diff
<blueyed> LaserJock: apparently there will be a (much improved) new release in a few days. I'll wait for it and then try to file a SRU.
<blueyed> THANK YOU ALL! :)
<keescook> leonel: I'm not sure I understand one, but what I was saying was that "pdf-ole-bugfix.patch.dpatch" was missing from debian/patches/00list
<leonel> keescook:  I did  a   dpatch-edit-patch  pdf-ole-bugfix.patch     and  in the shell  I  edited  the  files  only
<leonel> I didn't  touch any other file  
<pochu> blueyed: just FYI, the SRU should be just a fix for the bug, not an entire new release :)
<keescook> leonel: right, after the dpatch-edit-patch, you need to add your new patch to debian/patches/00list or it gets ignored by dpatch :(
<pochu> blueyed: But the new release could go to -backports, though.
<blueyed> pochu: so, for the SRU wouldn't the provided debdiff not be enough?
<blueyed> (it's against Feisty)
<leonel> keescook:  I did it like squirrelmail without  patch system ...
<leonel> keescook: start over ?
<leonel> or is there a way to recover from where we are ?
<keescook> leonel: no need to start over; you just have one missing step :)
<keescook> two other suggestions:
<keescook> number the patch (say, 50_...) to match the others
<keescook> then add it to the debian/patches/00list file
<pochu> blueyed: looks ok (if it fixes the bug). But as LaserJock said, you should fix Gutsy first :)
<leonel> ok I'm  in  debian/patches
<keescook> leonel: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources "ed: dpatch"
<leonel> now what do I do ?
<keescook> I would do this:
<leonel> ok
<blueyed> pochu: Gutsy would be fixed by the new release..?! So, should I provide a .debdiff for Gutsy, too - then another one for Feisty (which changelog)?
<keescook> mv pdf-ole-bugfix.patch.dpatch 50_pdf-ole-bugfix.patch.dpatch; echo "50_pdf-ole-bugfix.patch.dpatch" >> 00list
<keescook> also, I would change your changelog to conform more to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
<keescook> maybe like this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23508/
<pochu> blueyed: If you're going to fix it with the new upstream release, no need for a debdiff. I thought you were waiting for the new upstream release to backport it to -updates, which isn't possible at all :)
<leonel> keescook: to edit   changelog do I need to run  again  dch -i ?
<keescook> leonel: I recommend "dch -e"  (edit)  vs -i (insert)
<blueyed> pochu: so, then the current debdiff for feisty seems to be enough for now?! Should I "clean it up", to include a changelog entry?
<leonel> keescook: done !
<leonel> keescook: now ?   debuild -S -uc -us  ?
<keescook> leonel: debuild -uc -us   to build it, yes, as before
<pochu> blueyed: sure, the changelog is a *must*
<pochu> blueyed: you can use "dch -i", it will create a new entry for you (which you should modify to fit your needs)
<leonel> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libbz2-dev libmilter-dev libgmp3-dev libwrap0-dev libcurl3-dev
<leonel> running with -S
<keescook> leonel: however you built it before, do that again.  :)
<leonel>   debuild -S -uc -us  
<leonel> done
<keescook> In general, I recommend pbuilder or sbuild
<leonel> now pbuilder ?
<leonel> keescook:   pbuilding ...
<blueyed> Is there a syntax for "Close LP bug"? Could not find anything on the wiki.
<blueyed> (in changelog)
<ajmitch> Fixes LP: #12345
<ajmitch> or similar
<ajmitch> I believe it matches on the LP: #number part
<keescook> ajmitch: I was wondering if the "Fixes " was needed; I swear I did an upload with (LP: #...) and it didn't close.
<ajmitch> let me check the source
<ajmitch> while ($f{'Changes'} =~ /lp:\s+\#\d+(?:,\s*\#\d+)*/ig) {
<ajmitch> just need to unpack that :)
<ajmitch> so it can take multiple bug numbers
<blueyed> On https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU it says "The upload target must be release-proposed" - I think that has been changed, correct? Can I remove this line?
<pochu> So I'm off to bed, good night MOTUland!
<blueyed> G'night, pochu!
<leonel> keescook: pbuilded    now  debdiff and send again ?
<blueyed> So I've attached a new debdiff to bug 88617 - can someone sponsor it?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 88617 in duplicity "incremental backup does not work" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88617
<keescook> leonel: before sending, see if you can find a "bad" ole2 or pdf file, so you can verify the fix
<leonel> keescook: ok
<crimsun> hmm
<crimsun> I think the most recent change to procps just broke our ALSA debugging script.
<crimsun> I'll just work around it by using sudo, I suppose.
<keescook> crimsun: ah, was scanning root-owned maps files?
<crimsun> right
<crimsun> lsof /dev/dsp* /dev/audio* /dev/mixer* /dev/snd/*
<crimsun> it's definitely a nice security feature
<crimsun> regardless, not an issue we can't work around.
<keescook> okay, good.  I want to be aware of other stuff it could break, so this is a good example; thanks.
<crimsun> np
<keescook> crimsun: actually, I don't see a behavior difference?
<keescook> how does it break?  (I just turned it off, and tried the lsof again with the same output)
<crimsun> keescook: I use pulseaudio
<keescook> ah!
<crimsun> (via pulseaudio-esound-compat, that is)
<leonel> keescook: found  a OLE2  file  in https://wwws.clamav.net/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=466     tested   the  builded clamav  and  all went  ok
<ubotu> wwws.clamav.net bug 466 in libclamav "Denial of service in OLE2 parser" [Blocker,Resolved: fixed]  
<leonel> keescook: leonel@ubuntu:/etc/clamav$ clamscan ~/Desktop/002.pps 
<leonel> /home/leonel/Desktop/002.pps: OK
<leonel> now waiting for a mail  with the  a  pdf to test  since in clamav bugzilla  I'm not allowed to get the  test  pdf  ...
<AndyP> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Contributor  - shall i change the email address to the new mentors list in the first bullet point?
<crimsun> AndyP: yes, please
<AndyP> right, that looks a bit better
<AndyP> sleep time, good night
<mwolson> does anyone know who i should contact if i want to start a new "ubuntu-emacs" mailing list?
<mwolson> i've had several people ask about the existence of one, (akin to debian-emacsen), so i'd like to start one
<LaserJock> well, mailing lists seem hard to come by these days
<zakame> hmm, for discussing packaging emacs in ubuntu?
<zakame> (good morning btw :D)
<mwolson> zakame: yes, pretty much
<LaserJock> well, it seems like they don't want mailing lists for development stuff
<jmg> it doesnt get created by LP when a new team is developed?
<LaserJock> no
<mwolson> Emacs Lisp packaging policy would also be discussed on it
<LaserJock> LP doesn't have mailing lists yet
<jmg> LaserJock: why dont "they" want mailing lists?
<StevenK> They being the Canonical Sysadmins
<jmg> the cabal
<LaserJock> well, specifically I tried to get ubuntu-tex
<StevenK> TINC
<LaserJock> and Matt Zimmerman requested that I not
<minghua> LaserJock is still bitter about the rejection for ubuntu-tex :-)
<StevenK> LaserJock: What was mdz's reason?
<mwolson> that's strange
<jmg> rationale?
<LaserJock> because development discussion should be on ubuntu-devel{,discuss}
<jmg> but thats high traffic
<LaserJock> he doesn't want to break it up
<StevenK> It so isn't.
<jmg> it isnt?
<jmg> well, d-d is
<LaserJock> ubuntu-devel is fairly low traffic
<LaserJock> IMO
<StevenK> I'm used to debian-devel traffic levels.
<LaserJock> I would rather have had an ubuntu-tex mailing list
<minghua> -devel-discuss is probably a bit high, -devel is very manageable
<LaserJock> but I see Matt's point
<StevenK> Heck even, debian-project is averaging 50 messages a day at this point. Bloody svenl.
<jmg> heh
<minghua> isn't he already banned?
<StevenK> Yes. The fallout is still going on.
<ajmitch> oh, svenl discussion spills over to here?
<LaserJock> anyway
<crimsun> the svenl, heh.
<LaserJock> mwolson: you can always ask for ubuntu-emacs but I'm thinking your chances of actually getting it aren't great
<crimsun> hah, so many people have used our ALSA debugging script that pastebin.ca has flagged it as spam
<jmg> do I want to know? :)
<LaserJock> I put in for ubuntu-emacs and ubuntu-science and haven't heard anything about them
<LaserJock> I think Jono is in charge of mailing lists
<StevenK> ajmitch: My fault.
<LaserJock> and obviosly he's out traveling the world instead ;-)
<_MMA_> LaserJock: elmo set our up.
<mwolson> LaserJock: who specifically should i contact in order to try convincing them?
<_MMA_> *ours
<crimsun> _MMA_: US is also a derivative, not a specific component common to all (base and derivs)
<LaserJock> mwolson: well, I guess you could email ubuntu-devel and get opinions first
<LaserJock> yeah, special treatment for special derivs
<mwolson> LaserJock: thanks
<LaserJock> ;-)
<_MMA_> crimsun: I just mentioned it because Im unsure jono handles the lists.
<LaserJock> I think he might at least be involved with the approval
<zakame> doesn't debian's policy help?
<LaserJock> elmo would be the actual one setting it up since he's a sysadmin
<LaserJock> zakame: help what?
<superm1> ScottK, would you be able to re-ack the changes that crimsun had asked me to make to libhdhomerun?  The new revu url is http://revu.tauware.de./details.py?upid=5336.  Thanks!
<mwolson> LaserJock: out of curiosity, how stringent have the membership requirements been for the ubuntu-tex Launchpad group?  i'm trying to decide this for ubuntu-emacs
<mwolson> i.e. developers-only, or was any interested party permitted to join?
<joejaxx> anyone else here running native gutsy?
<ajmitch> of course
<joejaxx> i was wondering if linux-image-2.6.22-5-generic being broken was not a isolated matter in my case
<jmg> joejaxx: wfmtm
<joejaxx> jmg: ?
<ajmitch> define 'broken'
<joejaxx> Unpacking linux-image-2.6.22-5-generic (from .../linux-image-2.6.22-5-generic_2.6.22-5.11_i386.deb) ...
<joejaxx> Error setting debconf flags in linux-image-2.6.22-5-generic/preinst/bootloader-initrd-2.6.22-5-generic: linux-image-2.6.22-5-generic/preinst/bootloader-initrd-2.6.22-5-generic doesn't exist at /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst line 205, <STDIN> line 3.
<jmg> works for me tm
<etank> what would be the recommended way to take a debian .deb file and redo it for Feisty>
<etank> ?
<ajmitch> joejaxx: wfm
<ajmitch> etank: just rebuild it
<etank> ajmitch: how do you do that?
<etank> the file is http://packages.debian.org/unstable/editors/scribes
<ajmitch> simplest method is to add the deb-src line for debian, apt-get build-dep scribes
<ajmitch> apt-get install build-essential devscripts
<ajmitch> apt-get source scribes
<ajmitch> go into the scribes directory, and debuild
<etank> scribes is not in the ubuntu repos though
<ajmitch> hence " add the deb-src line for debian"
<ajmitch> which is something like:
<ajmitch> deb-src http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ etch main
<etank> you mean in the /etc/apt/sources.list file?
<LaserJock> mwolson: you know, I started with accepting pretty much everybody
<ajmitch> etank: yep
<ajmitch> LaserJock: even people like me?
<LaserJock> mwolson: I then deactived people without an email address with message that they should send me their email to get reactivated
<mwolson> *nods*
<LaserJock> mwolson: so I ended up with 12 people
<LaserJock> and so far it's mostly been me and Fujitsu 
<minghua> bug 117517 is really a scary bug
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117517 in octave2.9 "octave is linking incorrectly BLAS/ATLAS libraries" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117517
<ajmitch> minghua: scary to fix?
* minghua should report it to Debian
* LaserJock looks
<minghua> ajmitch: no, scary as "silently generate wrong result"
<LaserJock> minghua: yeah, definately send that one upstream
<ajmitch> *ouch*
<ajmitch> that's pretty critical for octave
<minghua> LaserJock: by upstream you mean Debian?
<mwolson> LaserJock: that membership policy sounds about right to me
<LaserJock> I'd like to put octave in Main for gutsy
<LaserJock> minghua: yes
<LaserJock> mwolson: it depends on what you want to do
<minghua> LaserJock: yeah, will do once I reproduce it
<LaserJock> mwolson: I wanted to have testers and bug fixers too
<StevenK> LaserJock: Because then you can't touch it? :-P
<LaserJock> StevenK: well, I plan on going for core-dev in the next few days so no
<LaserJock> I want to put it in Edubuntu
<ajmitch> it's a fairly useful program
<mwolson> LaserJock: i'm also trying to decide whether i should subscribe the group to bugs of various packages; it's hard to figure out what the scope of this thing should be
<LaserJock> mwolson: you might do a core set of packages
<LaserJock> mwolson: you probably don't want *everything* emacs related
<mwolson> yeah, that would be rather large
<LaserJock> with ubuntu-tex I set us as a bug contact for the packages that debian-tex maintains
<LaserJock> sort of gives a 1:1 correspondence in the teams
<etank> ajmitch: i added that line to the source.list but it does not find the deb file for scribes after an update
<ajmitch> etank: change etch to sid, and you won't be able to get it with apt-get install
<etank> ajmitch: i was trying to do an aptitude search to see the file
<ajmitch> right, which won't work
<etank> but apt-get source will?
<ajmitch> should do, yes, and will retrieve & unpack into the current directory
<crimsun> ooh! ooh! More hda-intel screwage.
<etank> sweet, now that it is sid in the source.list it is working
<crimsun> sorry, just couldn't curb my enthusiasm.
<ajmitch> crimsun: yay!
* ajmitch has a wonderful hda-intel-using laptop
<crimsun> whose braindead idea was it to put the friggin modem before the audio codec?  Anyhow...
<ajmitch> dunno, I've never had the modem working in my laptop :)
<ajmitch> I should probably try & get it going one day
<ajmitch> if that's even possible
<crimsun> should be, though you may need to use non-free/binary-only parts.
<ajmitch> :0:> less /proc/asound/card0/codec#1
<ajmitch> Codec: Conexant ID 2bfa
<ajmitch> I'd say that's fairly likely
<crimsun> ah, much love/hate for Conexant.
<ajmitch> love to hate, I presume
<etank> ajmitch: just wondering, why doesn't the aptitude search work?
<ajmitch> because it only searches binary package records
<ajmitch> which are anything you can install directly, rather than having to compile
<etank> do i run debuild as root?
<etank> or with sudo really?
<LaserJock> as yourself
<crimsun> i.e., nonprivileged user.
<crimsun> debuild already handles fakeroot as per necessary
<etank> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: dpatch intltool
<etank> I installed all of the stuff that it was asking for i thought
<crimsun> well, you do need to install the build-deps from clean::
<crimsun> are you trying to generate a source package or the binaries from the source package?
<etank> crimsun: i am trying to take a deb package that is available in debian and redo it for feisty
<minghua> ajmitch, LaserJock: I can't reproduce bug #117517 on Debian, can either of you try for gutsy (or confirm it for feisty)?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117517 in octave2.9 "octave is linking incorrectly BLAS/ATLAS libraries" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117517
<etank> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/editors/scribes to be exact
<crimsun> etank: I think you really want to use pbuilder.
<etank> sorry, i've never done any of this before so it is all new to me
<leonel> well  got to go
<leonel> good night everyone
* minghua actually want to ask crimsun about his alsa issue about intel sound card as well...
* etank is thinking that this is too much for him to do
<crimsun> well look at the time -
<crimsun> :-)
<crimsun> minghua: sure, what's up?
<etank> crimsun: any tips on using pbuilder?
<minghua> crimsun: I'm using Debian, should I go to #alsa instead?
<LaserJock> minghua: I can't reproduce on i386 Feisty
<crimsun> etank: right, use dget with the dsc, and pass the dsc to pbuilder)
<minghua> LaserJock: probably a 64bit-only problem
<etank> crimsun: you just soared above my head
<crimsun> minghua: it'll just be me or wishie answering your question anyway.  Pick a channel.
<crimsun> etank: scribes from Sid?
<etank> crimsun: yup
<crimsun> etank: right.  dget http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/s/scribes/scribes_0.3.2.5-2.dsc && pbuilder build scribes_0.3.2.5-2.dsc
<ajmitch> requires pbuilder to be setup first
<crimsun> I'm hoping etank is resourceful to the point of installing pbuilder with a package manager and reading its man page. :-)
<etank> i have pbuilder installed
<etank> but this is the first time i have ever tried to use it
<crimsun> right, so first you need to create one.
<etank> running 'sudo ptuilder create' now
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  hey... 
<nixternal> yo yo
<ajmitch> hello nixternal 
<etank> hi effie_jayx 
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  could you give me a hand? :S
<nixternal> I can try :)
<etank> crimsun: so pbuilder uses a chrooted env to build the deb?
<crimsun> yep.
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  same issue as earlier
<effie_jayx> :S
<etank> crimsun: so running the pbuilder create and then the command you showed earlier should work
<effie_jayx> etank,  sup brother
<effie_jayx> ok nixternal  be back in a sec
<crimsun> etank: if gutsy currently satisfies the build-dependencies at the very least, perhaps.
<crimsun> At least it's a starting point.
<nixternal> heh, cool...my brother called me with a windows problem with wmp...I told him to go to hell! :) hahah he is mad at me
<crimsun> nixternal will be happy to help you with the remaining issues.
<nixternal> crimsun: hahahahaha
<nixternal> thanks!
<crimsun> np!
<etank> 'pbuilder create' takes some time 
<ajmitch> etank: yep, the tarball it creates to use for builds is about 80-100MB
* etank would like to learn more about becomming a motu :)
<crimsun> the link (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing) in the topic is a great starting point.
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  ok.. I am doing grab-merge
<effie_jayx> and I will check where the package gets corrupted
<etank> crimsun: when i do the command that you posted i get a permissions problem
<crimsun> etank: you probably need sudo prepended.
<etank> mkdir: cannot create directory `/var/cache/pbuilder/build//12296': Permission denied
<etank> E: failed to build the directory to chroot
<crimsun> right.  See above.
<etank> that was with sudo
<effie_jayx> fakeroot?
<etank> changed it to dget http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/s/scribes/scribes_0.3.2.5-2.dsc && sudo pbuilder build scribes_0.3.2.5-2.dsc
<etank> and it seems to be working
<etank> ajmitch and crimsun: no matter what happens here, thanks for all the help
<ajmitch> no problem
<etank> i tried to do this whole thing with a ./configure; make; checkinstall; but it failed every time
<etank> the pbuilder finished. where does it place the deb
<ajmitch> right, checkinstall is a bit of an evil hack
<etank> or what is the next step
<ajmitch> in /var/cache/pbuilder/result I think
<etank> there is a scribes_0.3.2.5-2_all.deb now so i assume that is it
<etank> holy cow
<etank> it freakin worked
<etank> i now have a .deb file that works with feisty
<etank> that is soooo cool
<ajmitch> great
<minghua> stay away from checkinstall next time :-)
<etank> sure thing
<etank> i have been trying to get this done for weeks
<etank> thanks to all of you again
<etank> how do you get this in the universe for feisty or feisty+1?
<ajmitch> it's already in gutsy 
<etank> sweet
<etank> so i did all this for nothing? :(
<ajmitch> it was just imported from debian & built on ubuntu, same as you've done
<etank> except the learning experience of course
<ajmitch> packages from a newer version (eg gutsy) don't always install on an older version without needing quite a number of other packages
<etank> still it was very fun to do
<superm1> crimsun, would you be able to finish going over that revu from libhdhomerun?  I fixed the two things that you had asked and reuploaded.
<ajmitch> etank: now you can move on to some more difficult tasks & get involved with MOTU :)
<etank> ajmitch: baby steps here
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> we're not going to throw you in the deep end
<ajmitch> much
<etank> i am very new to all of this
<nixternal> etank: hold on to them baby steps, they work for excuses later one :)
<nixternal> s/one/on
<nixternal> effie_jayx: are you still having the same issue? what package was that for?
<etank> what is the best place to start with the motu then?
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  clamav
<etank> nixternal: noted :)
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  I did a debdiff and I am about tho add the fix to the patch
<ajmitch> etank: some good stuff on the wiki, we've started a new mentoring program too
<ajmitch> depends on what you want to do, too
<ajmitch> like packaging new programs
<effie_jayx> etank,  look at this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging
<etank> ajmitch: my main interest right now is in python (but i'm still learning it)
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  did you find it?
<ajmitch> etank: right, there's a lot of python stuff in ubuntu, thankfully
<etank> ajmitch: i am still learning python though
<ajmitch> the MOTU team mostly handles packaging, but there are people who are working on writing code for various projects
* etank wants to help in any way that he can
<nixternal> effie_jayx: grabbing it now
<ajmitch> a place to start, is the mentoring area: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Contributor
<ajmitch> it has a few good links there
<etank> ajmitch: so just so that i understand, all of what is just did is included in gutsy?
<ajmitch> yep
<etank> cool
<ajmitch> new packages in debian since feisty froze for release have been imported into gutsy
<nixternal> effie_jayx: are you adding a new patch to this merge or are you trying to build out the merge as is?
<etank> ajmitch: you have been so much help to me tonight ( even if everything done will be in feisty+1 )
<etank> i really do appreciate it
<etank> this is one of the reasons that i LOVE the Ubuntu distro so much
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  I am trying to add the patch to the merge
<etank> same goes for crimsun 
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  I had done it ... but then the package wouldn't build... :S
<nixternal> effie_jayx: which patch is it?
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  clamav_0.90.3-1ubuntu1.patch
<nixternal> effie_jayx: why are you adding that patch, better yet why are you applying that patch to the source dir created?
<nixternal> and I see why that patch would have an issue
<nixternal> "datos est<E9> al d<ED>a.
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  well I haven't touched the patch yet
<nixternal> it is that whole "ascii character" thing...if you look at the patch in vi or emacs compared to looking at the patch with less..you will see it
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  I have to fix clamav-daemon.init.in with the change 
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  should I use vi?
* effie_jayx checks the package out with less
<etank> crimsun and ajmitch: i hope that you don't mind but i just made a post to mu blog about the help that you have provided to me tonight. It was all good.
<ajmitch> fine by me :)
<etank> the two of you (in my mind) embody what makes ubuntu such a great distro to contribut my time and effort to.
<ajmitch> some of us live here, so you'll probably find help most hours of the day
<nixternal> effie_jayx: with that patch, you need to remove all of the /po stuff in order for it to work...I don't know exactly why that stuff gets in there..but it was the same issue I had with the courier package
<etank> ajmitch: im on most of the time too (just not in this channel)
<nixternal> if you look at the Ubuntu patch, it has po changes to remove 2007 dates and replace them with 2005 dates
* LaserJock has fun with Fridge, wahoo
<nixternal> that sounds like regression from Debian to me ;)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: uh oh, what now? :)
<nixternal> LaserJock: heh, slow down, you are making me look bad
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  mmmm 
<ajmitch> nixternal: he's taking over
<nixternal> heh, it is all apart of his world domination, and we aren't included
<nixternal> grrr
<LaserJock> *cough* yeah right *cough*
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  strange how ScottK  worked it out ok no need for date change
<nixternal> ScottK: did you remove the /po stuff from the ubuntu patch for clamav?
<LaserJock> nixternal: Fridge is easier then I thought it was, I should have done this a long time ago
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  same issue ... :S
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  I can't see the chars you are telling me about ... the patch I did not touch... 
<nixternal> effie_jayx: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23540/
<nixternal> effie_jayx: if you look at the clamav_0.93.3-1ubuntu1.patch there are po files in there
<nixternal> those are what is causing the issue
<nixternal> ahh, pastebin shows the correct char with a ? instead
<nixternal> but still, you can see a different just by viewing the patch with 2 different commands
<effie_jayx> yeah
<nixternal> it was the same issue with courier...we had to remove the po/ references in order for it to build correctly
<nixternal> man...I have freakin' split screen term, I could have just screenshotted that one :)
<Hobbsee> OMG crack!
<Hobbsee> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2756004#post2756004
<ajmitch> Hobbsee's awake again :)
<Hobbsee> yeah
<ajmitch> actually the kernel team will probably say that the kernel is one thing that can be used on feisty with few problems
<ajmitch> 16:35 < BenC> jmg: here's a better idea, just install the gutsy kernel on feisty
<Hobbsee> heh
<ajmitch> 16:35 < BenC> I wouldn't tell you to do it if it would break :)
<ajmitch> so not really *that* crackful
<Hobbsee> hmmm
<ajmitch> though I'm surprised that anything depended on libc6
<Hobbsee> hehe
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  I am so frustrated :S
<ajmitch> ah, linux-headers-2.6.22-5-generic does
<nixternal> effie_jayx: http://www.nixternal.com/tmp/foobar.jpg
<nixternal> there, better reprsentation of what I was talking about
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  I can see that...
<effie_jayx> but mine does not have the spanish text on it... so therefor no issues there
<nixternal> orly
<effie_jayx> orly?
<nixternal> oh really :)
<effie_jayx> ajam
<effie_jayx> where did you get that file?
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> clamav_0.90.3-1ubuntu1.patch
<nixternal> got it from grabmerge
<effie_jayx> i'm pasting mine...
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23541/
<effie_jayx> that's my file
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> your patch is way different than mine
* nixternal restarts clamav
<nixternal> err, grabmerge clamav
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  :S hehehe
<effie_jayx> and I thought this was going to be piece of cake... 
<nixternal> wth...so why do I get a different patch than you do?
<nixternal> I must be missing some locales or something...my config isn't right
<effie_jayx> it's probably mine
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php ????
<nixternal> well this is the 2nd package I have noticed this with, and I think ScottK noticed the same with courier
<nixternal> are you grabbing from dad?
<nixternal> hah, I am grabbing from mom
* nixternal pictures the people who run across the log for this conversation
* Hobbsee doenst trust dad
<nixternal> heh, hahahahahahahahaha
<ajmitch> someone please restrain nixternal 
<nixternal> man...I couldn't
<nixternal> I became "one of those people who have no idea what the conversation is about" right there
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  ScottK  suggested DaD
<nixternal> Hobbsee: if some self-help group comes across the log, they will be emailing you
<Hobbsee> nixternal: heh
<Hobbsee> hooray, more email
<nixternal> hahah
<nixternal> I am going to try DaD now
<nixternal> dad is quite sloooow
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  :S 
<effie_jayx> people say
<effie_jayx> this is all about the learning curve...
<effie_jayx> But BOY did I get the Nolan Ryan Curve....
<nixternal> ya, totally different downloads between mom and dad
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  can you try building the one you are downloading?
<nixternal> will do right now
<nixternal> running in pbuilder right now
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  cool
<LaserJock> ajmitch: do we need ~ubuntu-meninwhitecoats ?
<LaserJock> just to keep nixternal down to managable levels
<nixternal> whoa whoa now...what did I do to deserve that one?
<nixternal> ;p
<nixternal> and what is up with the "meninwhitecoats" today? that is the 2nd time I have seen such reference
<nixternal> it built fine here
<nixternal> clamav build fairly quick...wasn't expecting that
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  ok ok ok .... what did I do wrong?
<LaserJock> nixternal: well, I could say that you would be a magnet for such comments, but I don't know
<nixternal> oooh, funny tonight are we ? :P
<ajmitch> that would be mean
<nixternal> ajmitch: awww, like you really care ;)
<LaserJock> nixternal: don't make me threaten you with a Fridge story ;-)
<nixternal> man, that would have been great to do that Adam Sandler style
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  let's run through it shall we?
<ajmitch> nixternal: I do, really
<nixternal> LaserJock: don't make me delete your account!
<nixternal> booyah!
<LaserJock> I could delete yours first so :p
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  you went ahead and build without the changes?
<nixternal> shoot, actually I think you could delete mine too
<nixternal> effie_jayx: I build straight from the .dsc file downloaded
<effie_jayx> mmmmmm
<nixternal> all you need to do with the ubuntu patch is verified that it has been applied correctly...the file you download has it already implemented
<effie_jayx> then no changes needed?
<nixternal> nope
<effie_jayx> ok
<nixternal> just verify that all changes from the patch are complete, and then fix up the changelog and you are good to go
<effie_jayx> gotcha
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  but I don't get one thing
<nixternal> what's that?
<nixternal> don't feel bad, I don't get anything...I play it by ear until the trinity tells me to cram it
<jussi01> morning all!!
<nixternal> 17 minutes until I can call it morning here :) but, good morning there jussi01 
<jussi01> hello nixternal
<jussi01> 7.44 am here
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  check this .diff           http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23543/
<effie_jayx> the last line tells me I should check for that change
<effie_jayx> in that file 
<nixternal> i see stop) as the last line
* jussi01 just uploaded his latest offering to revu, if someone is kind enough to take a look??
* nixternal points at ajmitch, LaserJock, and crimsun
<nixternal> otherwise known as the TRINITY
<jussi01> hehe :D
<ajmitch> nixternal: sorry, I'm not
<jussi01> well the latest URL is: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5337 (mnemosyne) - enjoy... :D
<LaserJock> hmm, isn't the trinity crimsun ajmitch and crimsun?
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  I check if the change was added and it wasn't
<jussi01> LaserJock: lol
<nixternal> ahhh
<nixternal> let me look at it
<effie_jayx> check patch ... last lines
<jussi01> LaserJock: I thought it was more crimsun crimsun and crimsun... :P
<LaserJock> good point
<nixternal> effie_jayx: rock on with your bad self...great eyes on that one
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  ok make the change and try to build and see
<nixternal> pbuilder going right now on it
<nixternal> hrmm
* nixternal checks mom's output
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  did it break?
<nixternal> no it didn't
<nixternal> it just finished right as you asked
<freeflying> anyone know how to use requestsync
<Hobbsee> freeflying: requestsync packagename release that you want to sync to
<freeflying> Hobbsee: I've never made it work for me
<Hobbsee> why not?
<LaserJock> can a Universe source package produces a Main binary?
<LaserJock> *produce
<StevenK> Nope.
<LaserJock> didn't think so
<StevenK> The source would need to be promoted.
<LaserJock> I new that a Main source could produce a Universe binary
<LaserJock> just wondered if it could go the other way ;-)
* jussi01 bugs everyone to look at his package (I just want it finished) :D http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5337 (mnemosyne)
<mruiz> G'day all
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hi mruiz
<mruiz> hi dholbach
<jussi01> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi jussi01
<jussi01> dholbach: are you busy?
<dholbach> jussi01: always :-)
<dholbach> jussi01: what do you have for me :)
<dholbach> ?
<jussi01> dholbach: just need a review sometime, if youve got a min...
<jussi01> dholbach: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5337 
<jussi01> its almost ready/ready... (hopefully)
<dholbach> looking at it in a bit
<jussi01> dholbach: thanks :D
<mruiz> dholbach: I sent you an email about my first merge :-)
<dholbach> I'm triaging my inbox at the moment - so please hold on :)
<nixternal> heh, triaging the inbox..that is a new one
<jussi01> lol, i like it... :d
<crimsun> only 500 new emails to read since midnight.
<crimsun> (that's 3h48m ago)
<jussi01> crimsun: ouch
<Lutin> crimsun: woot
* jussi01 thinks crimsun has too much work being all three of the trinity....
<nixternal> ya, I am not feeling the pain of that many emails. I maybe between 500 and a 1000 a day, but not 500 in a few hours...to many bug reports
<crimsun> actually I think the trinity are asleep
<jussi01> crimsun: read back ~3 hours...
<crimsun> I find it humorous that the influx of sound bugs is so great that we had to use a bash script to cull all the info to be pastebinned, and now three pastebin web sites have blacklisted the script as spam
<jussi01> lol
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> hahahahahahaha....don't worry...Phil Bull made a script that would check for broken links in the docs..and got my IP blacklisted by kde*.*
<dholbach> jussi01: it has my ok, only small bits i complained about
<mdz> jmg: ubuntu-devel is a moderated list for everyone who isn't an Ubuntu developer, so it's very high S/N
<fargiolas> do ubuntu backports include new packages that entered gutsy? or they just include new versions of feisty packages?
<crimsun> they can include the former, though they are generally the latter.
<fargiolas> thanks :)
<sacater> imbrandon: ping
<imbrandon> sacater: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
<sacater> imbrandon: ping
<sacater> okay...
<sacater> imbrandon: ping, how about that server?
<crimsun> that's odd.  All my vorbis comments are _gone_ in gutsy's rhythmbox.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Duh. Rhythmbox eats children.
<jussi01> dholbach: thank you. do I need to correct those?
<dholbach> no, they're harmless - you get beauty points for fixing them, but it wouldn't block an upload :)
<jussi01> dholbach: ok :D if I re-upload with those changes, will you re-advocate?
<dholbach> of course
<dholbach> just give me the link if you've done so
<sacater> how is gutsy btw
<sacater> anyone here using it>
<sacater> stable enough yet?
<Fujitsu> I've been using it for over a month.
<Fujitsu> It works.
<sacater> Fujitsu: do i just need to change 'feisty' in sources.list to 'gutsy'?
<Fujitsu> Don't do it unless you really know how to resolve explosions.
<sacater> or can i use software sources
<sacater> oh
<sacater> well..
<DarkMageZ> anything cool in gutsy yet which will interest the users? or just low level stuff like the kernel
<sacater> ill wait for the tribes :P
<jussi01> dholbach: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5339
<dholbach> jussi01: done
<jussi01> dholbach: thanks
<jussi01> anyone else? I need 1 more +1... :D
<dholbach> is anybody going to package ubuntu-dev-tools?
* dholbach will add packaging to it
<geser> I might give it a try if nobody else want to
<dholbach> geser: I'd like to make it GPL, but we need to mail people for that and ask which license they want to put their tool under
<crimsun> jussi01: LICENSE has an obsolete mailing address for the FSF.  It's not "675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA" but "51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA"
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<geser> dholbach: I'm currently visiting LinuxTag so I won't start working on it before next week
<dholbach> geser: ok, I add some preliminary packaging to it
<dholbach> geser:  and I'll mail everybody involved
<StevenK> geser: Does that mean your merges are up for grabs? :-)
<jussi01> crimsun: hmmm, that file came from upstream, can I change it?
<geser> StevenK: if you want some, take it
<crimsun> jussi01: you may change that address.
<jussi01> crimsun: anything else before I upload?
<crimsun> dang, I don't read _that_ fast
<jussi01> hehe :D
<crimsun> jussi01: looks good!  I recommend omitting the leading article 'A' from the Description in debian/control
<jussi01> crimsun: ok, Im just uploading the new version
<jussi01> crimsun: dholbach http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5340
<dholbach> I added initial packaging to ubuntu-dev-tools - please: if you contributed anything, please add yourself to AUTHORS and please let me know if GPL is NOT ok for you
* dholbach writes to ubuntu-motu@ too
<TheMuso> dholbach: ah thanks for the heads up.
<imbrandon> hey Hobbsee TheMuso dholbach 
<imbrandon> and crimsun geser 
<mruiz> hey dholbach!
<dholbach> hello mruiz
<mruiz> dholbach: comments about my merge?
<dholbach> looking at it now
<jussi01> dholbach: If you missed it earlier, I need a re-advocation, as crimsun raised a few small issues... (fixed now):D
<dholbach> i'll upload it now
<dholbach> it#s good to go
<mruiz> dholbach: these comments are for me?
<dholbach> mruiz: no
<jussi01> :D
<dholbach> jussi01: uploaded
<jussi01> dholbach: thanks!! :D:D
<crimsun> nice work!
<dholbach> hrm
<dholbach> why did mruiz leave again?
* dholbach mails him
<cbx33> hey guys
<crimsun> 'lo/bye imbrandon (->work)
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> anyone ever managed to screencast a live desktop session?
<cbx33> i want to do some lessons 
<cbx33> for people to learn basic programming
<popey> you want to share your desktop over a lan?
<cbx33> over t-internet
<popey> you could just use vnc in read-only mode?
<popey> erk
<popey> you have good upstream bandwidth?
<cbx33> i want people to be able to see what I'm doing on a crappy machine
<cbx33> well my idea
<popey> how about using a web service like GoToMyPC?
<joejaxx> popey: live image is 188mb btw :)
<cbx33> was to transcode it on the lan
<popey> \o/ joejaxx 
<highvoltage> cbx33: screen -x ?
<highvoltage> (well, for vim/python that could work, at least)
<popey> you could run a telnet server that automagically runs screen for them - so when they telnet in they get to your session
<popey> then people don't need anything other than a decent telnet client
<popey> paste urls to code samples for them
<cbx33> well trouble is I may want to teach gui stuff too
<popey> they can download and do stuff locally
<cbx33> was gonna be in an IRC channel so they could ask questions too
<cbx33> i really want to explain stuff as I go along
<popey> you can do split screen in "screen"
<popey> so have irc on part of it, and your editor on the rest
<cbx33> but i couldn't do gui stuff
<popey> how much is gui stuff?
<cbx33> well i dunno
<cbx33> extending from the google video one i did
<popey> https://www.gotomeeting.com/
<popey> try that
<popey> try it now and I will join you
<popey> the other option would be to run x on a remote server (say a vps for example) and get people to vnc in 
<cbx33> i probably can't do it from here
<popey> that gets around the bandwidth issue
<popey> do you _have_ to do it from where you are?
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> no no
<popey> your connection blows goats
<cbx33> it will be done from home
<popey> I have proof
<popey> in which case you need something with low upstream requirement
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> i think my upstream is pretty poor
<popey> or as I say, put the x server on a server in telehouse :)
<cbx33> haha
<cbx33> yeh and how am I gonna do that
<cbx33> ;)
<popey> well :)
<popey> lets say for example you had a virtual server.. you could install x on it then use xdmcp to connect to it remotely and then your students connect via read-only vnc?
<cbx33> hmm
<popey> ustream.tv would be ideal though
<popey> the infrastructure is there
<cbx33> yeh
<popey> just need to get your desktop video to be recognised by flash
<cbx33> that sounds like a good way of doing it
<popey> I am sure that's do-able
<cbx33> why?
<popey> low barrier to entry, has a chat box
<popey> does audio
<popey> why what?
<cbx33> get it recognised by flash?
<popey> ustream uses flash to do the upstream from you
<popey> which is taken by the flash plugin from your web cam and microphone
<popey> but if you can get the flash plugin to use something other than the webcam..
<cbx33> i just need to pipe the screen output to the dev/video
<popey> exactly
<popey> or get flash to use some other /dev/foo
* popey will have a play
<cbx33> yeh
<popey> i have a ustream account and a machine here on unfettered net
<cbx33> oooh that must be nice
* cbx33 needs to find some friends in high places
* highvoltage had some friends that are high some times
* cbx33 used to when he was in a punk band
<cbx33> it's a definitely interesting area
<cbx33> maybe a hardware hack ;)
<cbx33> hackup a webcam to get it's video from a vga out ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<popey> or just point the webcam at the screen
<popey> ultimate hack
<cbx33> well i did think about that
<popey> obviously a different screen
<cbx33> but it's not very professional
<popey> my webcam only does a max of 640x480
<popey> and ustream compresses in the flash
<popey> it can look very good, but equally can look quite dire and choppy
<cbx33> maybe it's just not possible
<cbx33> maybe what I want to do isn't a reality yet
<popey> i wouldn't give up so easy
<cbx33> I'm not going to
<cbx33> :p
<popey> everyone said ustream was great but wouldn't work in linux - then i tried it and it does :)
<cbx33> hah
<popey> you may be surprised what you can achieve
<popey> I still think gotomeeting is a better bet
<popey> it's payware but you don't have to do anything - all the infrastructure is there
<cbx33> but i can't afford to do it
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> this is an open source venture :p
* joejaxx waits for his 14GB tar backup of his laptop to finish :(
<joejaxx> Good Morning All
<popey> morning joejaxx 
<dholbach> I added a README to ubuntu-dev-tools too
* cbx33 thinks it's time to blog and draw in some other ideas
<tsmithe> so - could someone review wired for me?
<tsmithe> it seems a bit stagnant in debian mentors, so i think i'll get it into ubuntu
<tsmithe> first
<man-di> tsmithe: I'm on it
<man-di> as we talked yesterday
<tsmithe> ah yes
* tsmithe completely forget
<tsmithe> totally tired
<man-di> you will get a mail later when I'm back home from work
<tsmithe> thanks ever so much :)
<tsmithe> apologies :)
<man-di> tsmithe: np
<tsmithe> :)
<jussi01> can someone recomend a blog website for me? something good, reliable, has a template and most of all free...?? (now dont be shy, I know you all have blogs...)
* cbx33 uses wordpress
<joejaxx> wordpress.com?
<cbx33> well i host mine
<cbx33> but yes
<cbx33> that's one option
* Hobbsee likes wordpress
<highvoltage> jussi01: wordpress and blogspot seem to be the most popular
* cbx33 too
* highvoltage uses wordpress too
<cbx33> it's great and easy to write extensions for
<jussi01> ok, thanks lads and lady(ies)? Ill look into it :D
<tsmithe> wordpress.com
<joejaxx> tsmithe: you are late :P
<tsmithe> pah
<pochu> Hobbsee: cheers!
<Hobbsee> pochu: :)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Congratulations
<Hobbsee> thankyou :)
<bashelier> hey tsmithe :)
<bashelier> tsmithe: (I used to review your package by mail)
* joejaxx wonders what all the excitement is about
<Fujitsu> Congrats, Hobbsee.
<joejaxx> what happened?
<Fujitsu> core-devness was bestowed upon Hobbsee.
<joejaxx> :O
<Hobbsee> hehe
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: Congrats :D
<Hobbsee> :) thankyou
<tsmithe> Hobbsee: congratualations
<Hobbsee> thankyou :)
<tsmithe> i was gonna post to -devel, but i didn't wanna spammage. tho i don't think a congrat is spam.
<tsmithe> meh
* tsmithe goes to study
* jussi01 comes back from doing the dishes... Congrats Hobbsee!!!
<Hobbsee> thanks jussi01 :)
<jussi01> :D
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  it builds...
<xxxxx1> morning people!
<ajmitch> hi
<sp4rKy> nixternal: around ?
<fernando> moin all
<jku> can someone explain why debian/rules has foo and foo-stamp (e.g. configure and configure-stamp)?
<jku> I'm looking at some example packages and in some configure requires configure-stamp, and in another it's the other way round?
<jku> ...alternatively please point me to a better channel if this was inappropriate
<xxxxx1> jku: did you read maint-guide?
<xxxxx1> jku: in your example, you have configure and its child 'configure-stamp', right?
<jku> as in "debian new maintainers' guide"? sure.
<xxxxx1> ok
<xxxxx1> jku: let me try to explain
<jku> i'd appreciate it
<xxxxx1> jku: in more complex rules, maybe you need to patch before run configure or do something
<jku> or run autogen.sh?
<xxxxx1> jku: so, configure entry can call patch and configure-stamp
<xxxxx1> you can put you configure params in configure-stamp too.
<xxxxx1> like
<xxxxx1> configure: patch configure-stamp
<xxxxx1> configure-stamp:
<xxxxx1> dh_testdir
<xxxxx1> CC="$(CC)" CFLAGS="$(CFLAGS)" ./configure \
<xxxxx1> --prefix=/usr \
<xxxxx1> ...
<xxxxx1> touch $@
<xxxxx1> with stamp
<xxxxx1> you know what they rules do
<xxxxx1> (sorry about my english) :)
<jku> ok, so when I'm looking at /usr/share/doc/autotools-dev/examples/rules.gz (which shows an example of packaging autotools-using software) and  I see this:
<xxxxx1> so, in 'clean' you should add a rm -f configure-stamp and so on..
<jku> configure:
<jku>         chmod +x debian/autogen.sh
<jku>         debian/autogen.sh
<jku> configure-stamp: patch-stamp configure
<jku>         ...the rest of configure-stuff
<jku> it's using the targets in the opposite order?
<xxxxx1> well, is not normal this use. because you call first 'configure'
<xxxxx1> configure should call configure-stamp
<xxxxx1> and not reverse
<xxxxx1> :)
<xxxxx1> did you see debhelper sample?
<jku> link?
<xxxxx1> hmm
<frandavid100> Hi
<xxxxx1> jku: apt-get source hello-debhelper
<frandavid100> I've been trying to compile this program http://gendesign.sourceforge.net/screenshot.html in Ubuntu since the day before yesterday
<frandavid100> but I haven't been able to get a working deb, can you guys give me a hand?
<jku> xxxxx1,  I think I've read them, but I'll look and come back. Thanks for the help
<xxxxx1> jku: oh, sorry. hello-debhelper don't use stamp :> but you can try dh_make in some .tar.gz code to create the templates.
<xxxxx1> jku: ah
<xxxxx1> jku: /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples
<xxxxx1> jku: ;)
<xxxxx1> easy way
<AndyP> frandavid100: feel free to ask more specific questions about the problem, and someone might answer if they know
<frandavid100> thanks andy:  I did manage to create an installable .deb by following the building instructions and using checkinstall, but the resulting program gives "core dumped" errors and seems to lack functionality
<frandavid100> so, I don't know what I'm doing wrong
<AndyP> frandavid100: does it work properly if you compile it and run it normally, without making it into a .deb?
<frandavid100> let me try that
<frandavid100> nope, same error
<AndyP> frandavid100: http://gendesign.sourceforge.net/help.html lists some libraries you need to install and how to compile it, are you following that?
<frandavid100> let me check again, but I think it's all correct
<frandavid100> so that's libgtk2.0-dev, libglib2.0-dev, libgnomeui-dev, libglade2-dev, libgnomevfs2-dev and libxml2-dev right?
<frandavid100> brb
<frandavid100> hi again
<frandavid100> I also installed firefox-dev, so all dependencies are supposedly met
<DarkMageZ> does that app have english translations in it?
<bashelier> doko: ping
<frandavid100> yep
<frandavid100> by the way it's not a core dumped error, it's a segfault error
<frandavid100> and well, the interface looks nothing like the one on the screenshot
<frandavid100> http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7083/pantallazogendesignsmalsc6.png take a look at what I get
<AndyP> frandavid100: which version are you using?
<frandavid100> of Ubuntu? I'm on gutsy
<AndyP> frandavid100: of gendesign
<frandavid100> oh, 0.5.3
<AndyP> my guess is that the GUI is different depending on what kind of document you're editing then
<frandavid100> I might contact the author and ask him
<frandavid100> I'll get back to you guys
<frandavid100> thanks for the advice, see ya later!
<gpocentek> Hobbsee: congrats :)
<Hobbsee> gpocentek: thankyou :)
<_MMA_> Oh yeah. Congrats.
<_MMA_> /me hopes the long pointy stick of doom can be wielded around -devel. :)
<jussi01> :D
<AstralJava> Hobbsee: What's the occasion?
<Hobbsee> _MMA_: hehe, it usually is :P
* Hobbsee is getting married.  obviously.
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> To your LongPointyStick, no less.
* Hobbsee tries not to ponder that one.
<jsgotangco> wah?
<geser> Hobbsee: congrats for core-dev
<Hobbsee> geser: thankyou :)
<jsgotangco> yes congrats on that really!
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
<mruiz> \o/ Hobbsee  :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<evand> Can someone with upload rights take a look at 117834 whenever they get a chance?  Thanks!
<Hobbsee> bug 117834
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117834 in amule "Please sponsor amule upload" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117834
<AstralJava> Hobbsee: Oh okay, congrats are in order, then. :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, married ?!? hehehe
<imbrandon> i can see the /. post now
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: nah...   and look into amule for evand, please
<Hobbsee> oh no...
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, ooooooooh kayyy i supose so
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> good man :)
<geser> imbrandon: isn't she already married with (K)Ubuntu?
<imbrandon> geser, yup yup
<imbrandon> in AU you can marry more than one it seems
* imbrandon ducks
<AndyP> Hobbsee: core-gratulations :)
<Hobbsee> thankyou :)
<StevenK> Recent Simpsons episode seen over here: Bart and random girl are in Utah, about to get married. Registrar: "And how many wives are you marrying today, sir?" Bart: "Just the one." Registrar: "What are you? Gay?"
<StevenK> imbrandon's quip reminded me.
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<imbrandon> yea Utah, home of the morman religon, where its cool to have more thna one wife
<imbrandon> mormon(sp?)
<imbrandon> something like that
<AndyP> correct
<StevenK> The latter. Mormon
<StevenK> imbrandon: You may not have not heard this one: What goes: clop clop clop *BANG!* clop clop clop ?
<imbrandon> heh , what
<StevenK> imbrandon: An Amish drive-by
<imbrandon> LOL
<imbrandon> man now that you can buy non-drm music on itunes i REALY wish it had a linux client
<imbrandon> or something better thn 4.x working in wine
<AndyP> amazon's going into the non-DRM mp3 market sometime soon
<imbrandon> yea i know, but i love my itunes
<AndyP> ah :)
<imbrandon> its the only reason i keep OSX on my lappy dual boot and a XP vm 
<imbrandon> on my desktop
<imbrandon> litterly
<imbrandon> everything else i "need" ( e.g. only photoshop and WoW ) i run in wine
<imbrandon> heh
<geser>     * MOTU application   Adrien Cunin
<geser>     * MOTU application   Daniel T. Chen
<imbrandon> evand, gettign ready to upload it in a sec, i'll mark the bug as such when i do
<geser> argh, something was in my paste buffer :(
<evand> imbrandon, Hobbsee: thanks!
<Hobbsee> :)
* Hobbsee o.O{we should be nice to evand, else our installs might not work}
<evand> :)
<imbrandon> evand, hrm
<StevenK> if [ $USER = "sarah" ]  ; echo "No migration for you!" ; fi
<imbrandon> evand, that patch dosent apply cleanly to whats in gutsy
* Hobbsee grin
<Baby> XD
<imbrandon> evand, did you make that debdiff against amule_2.1.3-2ubuntu1.dsc
<imbrandon> ?
<imbrandon> or against debians amule_2.1.3-3
<imbrandon> ...
<evand> imbrandon: the first one in that report was a mistake and was against the ubuntu version, the second is against amule_2.1.3-3
<imbrandon> yea i grabbed the one from the bottom, can you diff it against the current gutsy version
<imbrandon> err actualy
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> current gutsy
<imbrandon> e.g. amule_2.1.3-2ubuntu1
<imbrandon> ./` ... and there she was, like disco-superfly , yea there she was ... ./`
<StevenK> Ohh geez, where's that from?
<imbrandon> Marcy Playgound - Sex and Candy
<imbrandon> good song
<StevenK> Ah, right. Now that I've read the lyrics, now I know why my brain was telling me it didn't like it.
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> hrm i should stream some tunes ...
<doko> bashelier: pong
<jussi01> gah...freaking wordpress...
<jussi01> where are you people that recommended wordpress... Hobbsee ??
* Hobbsee looks in
<Hobbsee> hm?
<imbrandon> i love my wordpress
<jsgotangco> i like wordpress
<jussi01> wordpress is being evil
<jussi01> it wont upload my avatar..
<jussi01> grrrrr
<jsgotangco> oh you mean wordpress.com the service not the software
<imbrandon> chmod the upload dir ( normaly files/ )
<jsgotangco> yeah its a permission thing
<jussi01> hmmm how do i do that when its some webpage i log into...
<imbrandon> umm is it on your server ?
<jsgotangco> do you mean wordpress.com?
<evand> imbrandon: bug 117834 updated with the requested debdiff
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117834 in amule "Please sponsor amule upload" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117834
<imbrandon> evand, great i'll grab it in a sec
<evand> thanks
<jussi01> jsgotangco: yeah
<bashelier> doko: it's about gdc, I'm not quite sure, is it going to be build from the gcc source package or do you want it to be built from the gdc source package ? my suggestion was, to avoid version problem, to make an independant gdc package which version would be 0.23 and which *just* install the gdc sources tarball in /usr/src/gcc-*, and to make the gcc package build-depend on it
<jsgotangco> jussi01: well i would guess that is wordpress.com's fault ;-)
<jussi01> jsgotangco: yeah, probably, I just wanted to complain to someone though...sorry... :P
<jsgotangco> ahh haha
<imbrandon> StevenK, http://www.imbrandon.com:8000/listen.pls
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> little bit o streaming
<leonel> hello everyone !
<mruiz> hi leonel 
<tritium> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> tritium: hey dude how's it going
<tritium> Not bad, you?
<tritium> Too bad yarddog took that CC meeting so hard, huh?
<jsgotangco> tritium: can't blame him but i did give my side along with other people
<tritium> jsgotangco: yeah, I saw your response.  I hope he changes his mind, but as of now, he's deactivated his launchpad account, and deleted his wiki.
<imbrandon> ??
<jsgotangco> ahh sheeshh
<tritium> yeah
<Hobbsee> what, another one?
* Hobbsee wonders who yarddog is
* imbrandon wonders too
<tritium> Hobbsee: he's applied for membership and was rejected.
<nixternal> sp4rKy: I am around now :)
<Hobbsee> oof
<nixternal> mornin'!
<tritium> He was going to help me run the New Mexico LoCo, and had done a lot of work getting that setup, along with the IRC channel, mailing list, etc.
<nixternal> HOBBSEE!!!!!!! Congrats!!!
<Hobbsee> nixternal: thankyou :)
<tritium> Hobbsee: what happened?
<tritium> Are you a core dev now?
<jsgotangco> tritium: she'snow core dev
<tritium> WOOHOO :)
<tritium> Congrats Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> :D
<pleia2> Hobbsee: :D
* pleia2 hugs
<Hobbsee> :D
* Hobbsee hugs pleia2 :D
<nixternal> rock on with your badself!
<Hobbsee> hehe
* nixternal is envious
<jsgotangco> get your own pointy stick then
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE.  
<jsgotangco> Hobbsee: surely THE ONE TRUE STICK can control the others
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: of course.  by destroying them.
<LaserJock> bah, how do I echo the return value?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: CONGRATS!
<AndyP> "echo $?" ?
<xxxxx1> echo $?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: :D
<xxxxx1> congrats Hobbsee :>
<Hobbsee> :)
<doko> bashelier: no, include the gdc source tarball into the gdc debian package, and let that build-depend on gcc-4.1-source
<bashelier> doko: ok, I'm working on gcc-4.1 right now, which should't ftbfs with d
<doko> bashelier: please split out the libphobosN package, so that programs linked against it don't need to install the compiler package
<bashelier> doko: ok np ;)
<bashelier> evand: ping
<evand> bashelier: pong
<bashelier> evand: do you intend to merge amule using DaD ? (bug #117834)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117834 in amule "Please sponsor amule upload" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117834
<imbrandon> bashelier, it seems to have been done that way
<evand> bashelier: I'm confused.  Isn't that esentially what I did?  I used grab-merge.sh and merge-buildpackage from DaD.  Is there more to it than that?
<imbrandon> bashelier, i was just getting ready to upload it, btw much better evand thanks
<imbrandon> bashelier, ??
<evand> thanks!
<jekil> hello
<bashelier> evand: np, just next times, try to check the comments to see if there isn't somebody else working on it ;)
<bashelier> imbrandon: thanks
<imbrandon> kk
<evand> oh, I'm sorry!
<imbrandon> evand, bashelier uploaded
<imbrandon> evand, can you mark the bug fix commited please
<bashelier> imbrandon: ok good thanks again :)
<evand> imbrandon: will do
<pochu> bashelier: and you ask first the latest uploader to do his merge ;)
<pochu> Not that I care, but that will avoid some people doing the same work :)
<bashelier> pochu: I wanted to but you weren't connected when I tried ;)
<pochu> :)
<mruiz> imbrandon: if a package in http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html doesn't have conflicts, is it ready to be synced? 
<imbrandon> mruiz, not nessesarly, it just means when the auto-merger did its thing it dident have an issue
<imbrandon> still needs to be checked and uploaded
<mruiz> ah, ok
<mruiz> I was working in vzctl, who had conflicts in debian/control (architectures)
<LaserJock> ok, I need to find out who signed an upload
<LaserJock> can I just grab the .dsc?
<LaserJock> oh wait, that wouldn't be the uploader
<LaserJock> I need the .changes
<mruiz> Ubuntu only supports i386, powerpc, amd64 ?
<gnomefreak> sparc is also afaik
<pochu> mruiz: officialy i386, amd64 and sparc
<pochu> ppc and ia64 are ports.
<siretart> we also have hppa as port
<gnomefreak> dholbach: i had to give up on gwget it ended up being way too hard (things i tried didnt work on fixing the autoregen) i did upload to revu what i had done including the patch i made and applied. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5330 is the link. so if someone wants to take a look and see what they can do with it please feel free. i screwed with it up until a couple of hours ago and i have to admit i failed badly :(
<dholbach> gnomefreak: don't worry - I'll check it out and let you know what I find
<gnomefreak> ty
<jekil> ubuntustudio is a project sponsored by ubuntu or is a project outside ubuntu?
<jrib> gnomefreak: what's wrong with gwget?
<gnomefreak> jrib: auto regens control file on clean
<gnomefreak> so you will always end up with wrong depends. even changing it by hand didnt help
<jrib> I like gwget, I'm going to take a look too.  Is there a bug report?
<gnomefreak> what is debians svn link
<gnomefreak> jrib: none that i know of i was hoping to fix it before that happened it failed to install here due to missing depends
<jrib> gnomefreak: only on gutsy?
<gnomefreak> jrib: yes afaik
<siretart> jekil: you might want to ask this question to the #ubuntustudio channel, or joejaxx 
<jekil> siretart: thanks
<_MMA_> Whats up?
<_MMA_> jekil: What do you need?
<jekil> _MMA_: simply i think why ubuntustudio packages aren't in official repos, so it's a project outside ubuntu?
<_MMA_> jekil: It really cane down to timing. We had freeze exceptions for most of them but they weren't processed.
<_MMA_> Well the exceptions were.
<_MMA_> jekil: Why?
<jekil> _MMA_: beacause i am looking if it's possible make a project like ubuntustudio, but security oriented
<_MMA_> There's already a project like that afaik.
<_MMA_> The name escapes me atm.
<jekil> _MMA_: nubuntu?
<_MMA_> Not sure.
<siretart> jekil: secuirty oriented? can you elaborate please?
<jekil> siretart: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-sec
<imbrandon> www.nubuntu.org , ubuntu for the security minded
<siretart> jekil: I don't think you need a subproject for a handful of meta packages. I think we can do that within MOTU/ubuntu-dev
<jekil> imbrandon: yes, but is not maintained
<imbrandon> jekil, sure it is, i talk to them a bit over on oftc once in a while
<siretart> imbrandon: what is the point of nubuntu? having a live cd?
<jekil> yeah, only live cd
<imbrandon> siretart, i dunno, i just know it exists
<keescook> s/security minded/security tester/
<siretart> don't get me wrong, I'm just curious in learning why nubuntu is a seperate project from ubuntu-hardened
<keescook> it includes a whole mess of security scanners, etc by default, it seems: http://www.nubuntu.org/about.php
<imbrandon> siretart, because nubuntu isnt about the security of YOUR system its aobut the security(faults) of someone elses
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> been arround sicne pre-dapper
<siretart> keescook: I don't spot anything there we couldn't have in universe
<siretart> imbrandon: sounds like some sort of backtrack cd
<keescook> siretart: I agree.
<imbrandon> siretart, actualy its almost exactly like backtrack only ubuntu based
<imbrandon> even the art and fluxbozx
<imbrandon> s/z//
<siretart> I imagine we could even have a community supported 'security auditing live cd' somehow. we 'just' lack ppl doing the work
* keescook nods
<etank> siretart: that would be cool
<imbrandon> siretart, yup
<jekil> i thinks that a series of secuirty tools metapackage can be very useful
<keescook> apt-get install ubuntu-pwns
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<siretart> jekil: I don't see really the point of metapackages here, but there is no reason not to include metapackages in universe. So feel free to join ubuntu-dev and do the work directly in our archive
<imbrandon> keescook, i tell you i packaged* (sorta ) the lolcode intrepiter 
<keescook> imbrandon: hah!
<superm1> jekil, mythbuntu is including its metapackages in universe already too.  much better to do it that way
<keescook> I was hoping to see the THEN/ELSE structure be O RLY/YA RLY
<imbrandon> keescook, hehe yea
<siretart> keescook: ah, speaking of Backtrack, do you know if we could get the madwifi packet injection patch from aircrack-ng in the official ubuntu kernel package?
<imbrandon> that would so rock
<keescook> siretart: oh, is that still needed?  I thought that was in madwifi now?
<superm1> siretart, i dont think its needed
<superm1> i was just using madwifi and aircrack ng three weeks ago
<superm1> and i was able to inject on one interface and capture o nthe other
<keescook> if not, yeah, totally, open a bug, see if the kernel team will carry it.
<keescook> superm1: I think this patch is to do both on one interface.  :)
<siretart> superm1: the injection patch lets you capture and inject on the same interface
<superm1> virtual interfaces 
<superm1> should have specified
<keescook> oooh
<superm1> there is an app that comes with aircrack to easily create and destroy VAPs 
<superm1> on madwifi ng
<imbrandon> yea i just leave a open ( traffic shaped and another subnet ) wifi signal open at my house , so they dont fsk with my secure one
<imbrandon> :)
<jekil> siretart: how directly in the archive?
<siretart> jekil: in the gutsy repositories
<imbrandon> jekil, like right in the gutsy repos
<jekil> siretart: uploading metapackages to revu?
<imbrandon> jekil, well he sugested you becomse a MOTU and do it that way, but that woudl be a way to start
<jekil> imbrandon: thanks to you and to all for the explanation
<imbrandon> i would still like to see a trem client livecd
<imbrandon> pop the cd into your computer and play trem, like a console
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> _MMA_, ^^
<imbrandon> you would probably have to run the game from a ram drive or soemthing
<imbrandon> to make it fast enough
<imbrandon> but linux based console like gaming would rock
<evand> actually, I've put ET on a LiveCD before.  It ran quick enough.
<imbrandon> ET ?
<evand> enemy-territory
<imbrandon> ahh
<evand> Linux meets yet another WWII game
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> _MMA_, does trem require X or only SDL ?
<superm1> imbrandon, could you revu libhdhomerun today?
<siretart> ET on a LIVE-CD?!
<imbrandon> superm1, i looked at it but i'm not a great library person
<siretart> now THAT'S crackful
<superm1> imbrandon, its actually not a library, its a funny naming scheme adapted from the upstream package name
<superm1> the source package is a lib*, but binary is a normal name
<superm1> crimsun said it was okay to use it (yesterday)
<imbrandon> huh ? wow
<superm1> its because historically it produced a library that was linked to
<superm1> but no longer does, as its self contained
<imbrandon> hrm ok and the packages isnt renamed
<imbrandon> i guess
<superm1> right
<superm1> redhat is still using the same source package name too
<imbrandon> might be cool to rename the package and then use replaces/conflicts but thats another day
<imbrandon> i'll look again here in a few
<superm1> k.  newest revu url is here: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5336
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> ubuntu/debian > redhat :)
<superm1> well of course :)
<_MMA_> imbrandon: Joe might know better. We're actually messing around and gonna put Tremulous on a live CD. :) No DE or ubiquity. X, Trem and whatever depends it pulls.
<_MMA_> Oh I see.
<_MMA_> imbrandon: You did say that. :)
<pochu> Any MOTU is willing to review/upload a Listen merge? :) Bug #118030
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118030 in listen "Please merge Listen 0.5-3 from Debian Unstable (main)" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118030
<imbrandon> pochu, can you please diff against the currect gutsy version
<imbrandon> current*
<siretart> Hobbsee: congrats!
<Hobbsee> siretart: thankyou :)
<LaserJock> dholbach: I've sent my core-dev app to motu-council
<LaserJock> not sure if it's a moderated list or not
<dholbach> i'll take care of it
<Hobbsee> yay, LaserJock!
<imbrandon> LaserJock, w00t
<LaserJock> imbrandon: thanks
<LaserJock> Hobbsee beat me
<Hobbsee> sorry LaserJock 
<LaserJock> but I'm still glad I gave her a bit of a push at Sevilla
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<leonel> ScottK: Feisty's  clamav  DONE !   \o/  Whoo hoo !  YES !
<imbrandon> hrm , ok i got a question about a lic, not everyone run at once, but would this be considered *free* to be uploaded http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/   ( strong language )
<LaserJock> so cheerleaders are welcome, especially of the Main variety ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i'll definately cheerleed once i see the mail
<imbrandon> long overdue imho
<dholbach> LaserJock: moderated
<LaserJock> dholbach: thanks
<LaserJock> now I get to sweat
<mruiz> dholbach: I did it -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vzctl/+bug/118282
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118282 in vzctl "Please sync vzctl from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<dholbach> mruiz: super
<dholbach> mruiz: thanks
<dholbach> good work on that
<xxxxx1> hello dholbach 
<dholbach> hello xxxxx1
<pochu> imbrandon: sure
<imbrandon> pochu, thanks ping when you have and i'll re look at it
<pochu> imbrandon: done :)
<mruiz> dholbach: I have to add a bug for a merge ?
<dholbach> mruiz: no, not necessary
<dholbach> if you bug somebody to review and upload it, that's fine too
<mruiz> in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging appeared this idea ...
<dholbach> we need to fix the documentation :-(
<mruiz> dholbach: for my next merge... which files do you need to review ? 
<dholbach> debdiff from the debian version to the merged version
<mruiz> only debdiff! 
<mruiz> see you all!
<nixternal> LaserJock: if you have any plans on doco fixing for motu, let me know if I can lend a hand where needed...you to dholbach 
<nixternal> and anyone else for that matter :)
* nixternal goes and stuffs his face with a Chicago pie!
<dholbach> nice
* txwikinger hasn't had depp-dish pizza for a long while
<txwikinger> *deep even
<imbrandon> hrm whats the simplest python package in the repo, i need a good example 
<jussi01> imbrandon: you could use mnemosyne.... :P
<imbrandon> huh ?
<DarkSun88> Hi all
* nixternal wishes the sun were dark right now
<nixternal> howdy DarkSun88 
<DarkSun88> Hello nixternal :)
<nixternal> I am doing my part on "saving energy"...but damn it is hot out :D
<txwikinger> and you are complaining about Texas :P
<nixternal> heh, Chicago is nasty humid right now
<txwikinger> Need to get some more wind for the windy city ;)
<nixternal> heh, to bad the wind is from teh politicians and not mother earth
<dholbach> gnomefreak: I got me a fresh tarball of gwget, renamed it to gwget2_0.99.orig.tar.gz, added your debian dir, and added a patch in which I ran autoconf; rm -r autom4te.cache
<dholbach> gnomefreak: do you know about cdbs-edit-patch already?
<nixternal> great, and it seems that imbrandon is slinging storms in my direction
<dholbach> gnomefreak: it seems to be working better now - still some problems - checking it out
<imbrandon> ugh where is Fujitsu when you need him
<imbrandon> heh
<superm1> nixternal, I had no idea about that until i took a tour to the top of either the hancock or sears tower a few years ago for the first time.  One of them had it plastered on one of those little learn more about the city things
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> superm1: they taught it to us in elementary school iirc
<nixternal> that and the "city of big shoulders"
<txwikinger> ? Dead people voting?
<nixternal> hahaha, we learned that recently
<superm1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Shoulders ?
<nixternal> my grandparents voted for John Kerry, needless to say they died in the 90s
<nixternal> hehe, there is a band named that...interesting
<txwikinger> nixternal: Chicago and Texas have a lot in common... Dead people voting in Chicago, people bused over the broder to vote in Texas
<nixternal> hahaha, and Texas hates the border...but Texas does have an "express lane" in death row
<dholbach> gnomefreak: thanks for your work on it!
<nixternal> I think that joke came from the blue collar comedy tour
<superm1> nixternal, yea it did
<superm1> at least the second half
<gnomefreak> dholbach: yw. were you able to get it straight?
<txwikinger> nixternal: express lane with traffic jam
<nixternal> hahahaha
<dholbach> gnomefreak: yes
<gnomefreak> ty
<dholbach> gnomefreak: so one thing that was wrong is the version number
<dholbach> gnomefreak: it's 0ubuntu1, because there's no 0.99 in debian yet
<dholbach> gnomefreak: and the other thing was that you didn't use a .orig.tar.gz - so we had no .diff.gz
<gnomefreak> i didnt?
<dholbach> gnomefreak: and the autoconf patch was missing (that generated configure from the configure.in change)
<dholbach> no, but it's no big deal
<gnomefreak> ok ty i still have it so i will look it over again just to see what i missed. thank you again for looking at it
<dholbach> no problem
<dholbach> sorry it took so long
<dholbach> today was a bit busy
<gnomefreak> me too, matter of fact i just walked in the door'
<dholbach> thanks again
<dholbach> gnomefreak: uploaded
<gnomefreak> yw
<jrib> you fixed it faster than I could setup a gutsy vm :/  gnomefreak: did you do the gwget epiphany extension as well?
<gnomefreak> hold on i think it builds it
<gnomefreak> jrib Package: epiphany-extension-gwget   that?
<jrib> yeah
<gnomefreak> jrib: it builds it
<gnomefreak> source for it is gwget
<jrib> how do I create a gutsy pbuilder?  Specifically, how do I get /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/gutsy?
<xxxxx1> jrib: you can try http://revu.tauware.de/~laserjock/pbuilder-feisty
<xxxxx1> just rename
<jrib> yep, got that, but when I try 'pbuilder-gutsy create', it complains "E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/gutsy".  There's a note on the wiki, but no suggestion on what to do about it
<nixternal> ScottK: what was the small c/c++ library package you gave me to reference for this new library I am working on?
<xxxxx1> jrib: your debootstrap is up-to-date?
<jrib> xxxxx1: good call, let me install gutsy's debootstrap on here
<jrib> xxxxx1: thanks, that sorted it
<xxxxx1> jrib: you're using feisty?
<xxxxx1> get debootstrap from feisty-backports
<PriceChild> I'm thinking about packaging up warzone2100 (http://wz2100.net/) They package their source with a debian/ amongst other things. They seem very reluctant to remove this in their upstream and I'm wondering what to do. Is it ok to just edit/remove the files in the existing debian and carry on regardless?
<jrib> PriceChild: the mplayer package just renames debian to debian_upstream
<PriceChild> I'm going to use a lot of what's there afaict...
<xxxxx1> PriceChild: you should read section 6.7.8 of developers-reference.
<xxxxx1> btw, you're discouraged to do that. only if you don't have another way to do your job without upstream help. :/
<PriceChild> (I'm having to repackage it from bz2 to tar.gz anyway) I've read that before and I'm still unsure of what I should do. You say I'm discouraged from using their debian/ ?
<xxxxx1> but you will remove debian/ subdir as well or just move them to bzip2 ?
<xxxxx1> if just to move them to bzip2, could be good a get-orig-source doing that. but's optional, not mandatory.
<ScottK> nixternal: Don't recall. sorry.
<PriceChild> xxxxx1, I've completely lost you sorry...
<nixternal> that's alright..I am checking libcurl...it is similar to this library anyways
<ScottK> jrib: Try enabling feisty-backports and update pbuilder from there.
<xxxxx1> PriceChild: :)
<jrib> ScottK: thanks, installing gutsy's debootstrap worked, I didn't realize I had -backports off
<xxxxx1> PriceChild: you need to repackage to bzip2 and/or remove debian/ subdir too?
<PriceChild> xxxxx1, So far I'm just bzcat -> gzip -9 'ing the upstream's .bz2 into a nice .tar.gz Do you think I should remove the debian/ in that process?
<xxxxx1> you say "...They package their source with a debian/ amongst other things...They seem very reluctant to remove this in their upstream..."
<xxxxx1> you can use get-orig-source
<xxxxx1> to do that tasks
<xxxxx1> :)
<PriceChild> ok cool :)
<PriceChild> I'm happy, thanks :)
<PriceChild> well not happy.... :P
<superm1> ScottK, could you re-ack your +1 on libhdhomerun?  crimsun had me change two minor things (typo and add copyright info to the man page I wrote) but said that the naming was OK
<ScottK> What's the url?
<PriceChild> They also have some images in the debian/ which end up as icons around the place so I'll remove all but those in the get-orig-source
<superm1> ScottK, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5336
<jussi01> ScottK: thanks very much for all your help with mnemosyne, if you didnt notice its now uploaded :D
<ScottK> Done
<ScottK> jussi01: I did.  Congrats.
<superm1> Thanks ScottK 
<ScottK> NP.  Thank you for contributing.
<nixternal> objdump -p filename |grep SONAME   <- what filename/type should I run this against in order to find/fix the SONAME?
<leonel> ScottK: Feisty's  clamav  DONE !   \o/  Whoo hoo !  YES !
<ScottK> leonel: Excellent.
<ScottK> leonel: Did keescook upload it?
<PriceChild> Just got to figure out how to do it now :)
<leonel> ScottK: yes He did
<ScottK> Great.
<lfittl> joejaxx: is there a bigger version of the ubuntu studio logo somewhere?
<leonel> ScottK: if there's no bug reports  for  Dapper's  Clamav  does that means that   1  people are using it with bugs  or  there's no people using it ?
<leonel> ScottK: in launchpad  I don't see any security  bug report
<leonel> ScottK: for dapper
<leonel> ScottK: and we know there are bugs
<ScottK> leonel: We need people to pay attention and file the bugs.  Have at it.
<leonel> ScottK: is there a way to know  how many people have downloaded  dapper's clamav /
<leonel> ?
<ScottK> Not that I know of.
<leonel> it's a big work  to patch  all the bugs ..
<leonel> ScottK:  can It be to package  88.7   I think it would not break anything since  it's most security updates  and   start patching from there ?
<ScottK> leonel: It would have to go in backports and no in -security.
<ScottK> no/not.
<ScottK> I think that can be done. 
<ScottK> jdong is the person to ask about a new package direct into backports, but I'd be in favor of it.
<leonel> since  the most bugs  can be considered  for  remote  attacks   I'll take a closer look  to dapper's clamav  
<ScottK> Sounds great.  IIRC 0.88.4 is already in dapper-backports
<leonel> ScottK: but as you said  not everyone has  backports enabled ..
<ScottK> leonel: True.  To really do things right you'd have to patch 0.88.2
* leonel has his knees shaking ...  :-P
<leonel> ok
<leonel> I take a deep look  on what needs to be done 
<Kmos> php 5.2.3 is out :)
<gnomefreak> there has to be an easy way to search for .rej files other than locate and find
<zorglu_> q. i would like to talk to somebody who has knowledge of apt-get http operation and how it queries the server. any suggestion on a place/personn i could talk to ?
<gnomefreak> zorglu_: you want to know how apt uses repos?
<zorglu_> gnomefreak: nope. i want to .. how can i explain that :)
<zorglu_> gnomefreak: i want to understand how apt-get interact with the http server to play with mirroring and stuff
<zorglu_> gnomefreak: im a developper playing with it to see what i can do. so it is not the usual type of question. hence my need for a dev knowing it and willing to answer some questions
<gnomefreak> the person i would say speak to most likely wont be back until monday try asking in #synaptic
<zorglu_> gnomefreak: ok noted. what is his nickname ?
<gnomefreak> zorglu_: anyone in there should beable to help or ask mvo monday. unless someone else here knows
<zorglu_> ok thanks
<gnomefreak> maybe tuesday (not sure if monday is holiday or not)
<imbrandon> man some of the stuff on the internet ( read: digg.com ) is ummm stupid .. i feel like i get penalized by one IQ point just for reading it
* gnomefreak doesnt like digg or slashdot
<gnomefreak> nothing usefull IMO on either
<LaserJock> hmm, it would be kinda cool if LP spit out a list of packages you've sponsored
<pochu> and uploaded!
<imbrandon> pochu, it tells the ones you've uplaoded
<pochu> imbrandon: not all of them
<imbrandon> howso, it sure does for me
<LaserJock> sponsored or directly uploaded are the only options
<LaserJock> we already have directly uploaded
<pochu> e.g. if you upload -0ubuntu1 and -0ubuntu2 in the same repository, it will show -0ubuntu2, but not -0ubuntu1.
<LaserJock> oh, hmm
<pochu> So not all your uploads :)
<LaserJock> I didn't know it did that
<pochu> Which is ugly, since most of my uploads are for liferea :)
<imbrandon> well thats because if you upload to the same repo the old one will be removed
<imbrandon> makes sense
<LaserJock> imbrandon: sweet automatix mad #10 on the "Top 10 apps in Ubuntu" ;-)
<LaserJock> but it doesn't give an accurate count of activity
<imbrandon> a kitten just got hit by a car
<_MMA_> lol +1
<pochu> imbrandon: but if you upload -0ubuntu1, and I upload -0ubuntu2, your upload will be removed too, and it's not removed from that list.
<imbrandon> and ... thats correct too
<pochu> So I don't see why it should remove old uploads.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: oh wait, I was wrong
<LaserJock> Automatix got #1
<nixternal> WHAT?
<LaserJock> amarok is #2
<nixternal> where are you reading this?
<LaserJock> http://lifehacker.com/software/lifehacker-top-10/top-10-ubuntu-applications-265052.php
<nixternal> actually...don't...well damn you did
<LaserJock> samba is #3
<LaserJock> that's kind of an interesting one
<LaserJock> oh and I love this in the comments when somebody asked whey Ubuntu is gnome-based: "I believe they chose Gnome because it is about the middle of the road system req wise (compared to KDE and Xfce)."
<leonel> when will be the next  LTS ??   Gutsy + 1 ?
<nixternal> ya, they added Ubuntu in order to get hits
<keescook> say, should the mythtv package use "+" instead of "-" in it's version/svnDATE separation?
<zorglu_> LaserJock: it is their opinion or they have actual measurement to systain this ranking ?
<LaserJock> zorglu_: their opinion of course :-)
<zorglu_> LaserJock: ah ok :)
<LaserJock> "actual measurement" pfft
<zorglu_> LaserJock: btw the idea to get more actual data about how people use ubuntu would be of great use, in my opinion
<nixternal> lifehacker is all about opinions iirc, isn't it a blog?
<LaserJock> they wouldn't know a statistic if it went out and gave them a heart attack
<nixternal> something besides popcon? how it is being used would be neat to find out
<LaserJock> nixternal: yes, it is a blog
<nixternal> ahh OK...
<LaserJock> getting real "scientific" data in Ubuntu is darn near impossible
<LaserJock> we'd have to do nasty things like collect data without people knowing ;-)
<nixternal> ya, that is true
<pochu> leonel: yes
<nixternal> well, surveys
<pochu> leonel: or at least that's the plan :)
<LaserJock> self reporting is pretty much always biased
<LaserJock> and that's about the only way we get data
<nixternal> true, but there is at least 40% truth to it
<LaserJock> good enough for social sciences ;-)
* LaserJock gently hints to imbrandon that his app has hit motu-council ML
<zorglu_> LaserJock: why would it be impossible ?
<LaserJock> because of what I said
<zorglu_> LaserJock: what about an apps which monitor when other apps are launched/stopped. just that would be usefull to know
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but we can't turn that on by default
<LaserJock> and hence require the person to want to participate
<zorglu_> LaserJock: self reporting is not that usefull because it require the reporter to have very intimate knowledge of the system
<LaserJock> which then doesn't give you a truely representitive sample
<zorglu_> LaserJock: well you wont get the whole population this is clear
<LaserJock> so your data will be biased
<LaserJock> and then can be used to make wrong decisions if relied on too much
<zorglu_> LaserJock: the monitoring/reporting will have to be on a voluntary bases too
<zorglu_> currenlty decision are taken wihtout any data, it can hardly be better :)
<LaserJock> popcon is pretty good
<LaserJock> zorglu_: kinda depends
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ahh right on , me composes an email
<zorglu_> LaserJock: how having no data can be better 
<zorglu_> ?
<LaserJock> developers who know the software and how it fits within the distro are more likely to make better decisions
<zorglu_> bad data may be ignored
<LaserJock> I'm not saying that we shouldn't try
<zorglu_> LaserJock: they makes better decision because they dont know how people uses the os ?
<LaserJock> yes
<zorglu_> euh i dont get it :)
<LaserJock> they make better decisions because they aren't basing their decisions on wrong data ;-)
<zorglu_> for me, to know what people want allow to increase their satisfaction
<LaserJock> if it was truely representitive data then it might be useful
<cbx33> ping imbrandon 
<superm1> LaserJock, did you find a way to have launchpad tell you who did what uploads for you?
<LaserJock> but there are 2 things I see as negatives:
<zorglu_> currently they are basing their decision on no data at all
<LaserJock> zorglu_: that's not really true
<zorglu_> it may be phrased as 'shooting in the dark'
<LaserJock> not at all
<LaserJock> developers get software from upstreams
<zorglu_> LaserJock: on which data are they basing their decision ?
<LaserJock> from themselves
<zorglu_> so their personnal opinions :)
<LaserJock> the whole point of having developers is that they presumably have a good idea of what they are doing
<LaserJock> no
<zorglu_> talk to me about non representative sample :)
<LaserJock> Ubuntu developers often don't do what there personal opinions say
<imbrandon> cbx33, pong
<LaserJock> they do research about what the best decision is
<cbx33> hey imbrandon 
<cbx33> get my pm?
<LaserJock> and sometimes that's not the most popular decision
<imbrandon> ahh /me looks
<zorglu_> LaserJock: ok what is this 'reasearch' ?
<LaserJock> talking to upstreams, reading code
<LaserJock> seeing what's up-and-coming
<LaserJock> then figuring out the ramifications of doing X
<zorglu_> LaserJock: nothing to do with 'satisfying the users' there, no ?
<LaserJock> "how will this affect the rest of the distro?"
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> well if they go and break everything just because the users wanted newer X then that's not satisfying them either
<zorglu_> sure that providing non buggy software is one part of the game
<zorglu_> providing software usefull to the user is another part
<zorglu_> this is the second im talking about
<LaserJock> but I'm not saying thow out data gathering althogther
<LaserJock> I'm saying that it's deceptive
<LaserJock> and difficult to do right
<LaserJock> and in the end it might not be worth it
<LaserJock> most of the time there isn't any clear winner
<LaserJock> if I say "emacs vs vi"
<LaserJock> or say "firefox vs. epiphany"
<jussio1> OK, got a question, now my package is uploaded, how do I go about gettiing it into debian? Is there someone who does this or do I need to do it myself?
<LaserJock> it's not really going to help all that much to go out and gather user statistics
<zorglu_> ok i will sumarize my point for logging :)
<LaserJock> jussio1: you should talk to debian-mentors, they have an irc channel on oftc and a mailing list
<jussi01> LaserJock: oftc?
<LaserJock> jussi01: that's the irc network Debian uses
<LaserJock> irc.debian.org will get you there I think
<jussi01> thanks
<superm1> LaserJock, how did you come up with the list of who had sponsored your uploads in your app for core-dev?  Just memory, or is there a way to look it up?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I actually did go through the .changes files on LP
<LaserJock> found the key id of the person who signed it
<LaserJock> then looked that key id up on biglumber.com
<superm1> that can be a bit time consuming, but it will get everyone i guess.
<LaserJock> that's why I was thinking it'd be cool to have that in LP
<LaserJock> they have the data in the DB
<superm1> did you write to launchpad-users to suggest it?
<LaserJock> not yet, I just did it this morning and am still at work
<superm1> ah
<LaserJock> zorglu_: still writing? :-)
<xxxxx1> bye all!
<leonel> pochu:   <pochu> leonel: or at least that's the plan :)   <---    what plan ??
<leonel> to update  clamav  to  88.7 in dapper  and  start patching from there ?
<pochu> leonel: to make gutsy+1 an LTS.
<leonel> ok  Perfect 
<RainCT> keescook: Hi. Fix for bug #117156 fixed :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117156 in flobopuyo "Flobopuyo has no icon for the .desktop file" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117156
<leonel> I've updated  firefox and  it is the new version   we need to push that  for  clamav ...
<alexises> bonjour
<alexises> bien 'jai un problaime de packadging
<alexises> donc j'ai t trembaler de ubuntu-fr  ubuntu-fr-classroomm et a vous
<alexises> donc je suis en train de faire un paquet pour un mmorpg ceci est mon 1er paquet
<alexises> lintain s'affole donc en cliar c'est lmorreur
<alexises> mais je continue maintenent on me dit de faire 2 paquet
<alexises> un paquet lendes ternelle et un paquet landes ternelle date
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-02
<alexises> mais le problaime c'est que je n'ai qu'as ma disposition les sources du programme et les resources avec le programme compiller
<alexises> donc je suis tirrailler que faire pour respecter la dbian polyci qui dit de ne pas modifier les sources
<jussi01> hmmm, now what that in english?
<alexises> ho sorry
<alexises> for my englis
<alexises> i repeat in englis
<jussi01> ok
<alexises> i have creat  debian package for ubuntu it is a mmorpg tranlath in french
<alexises> i must creat 2 package 
<alexises> lendes eternelle and landes eternelle date
<alexises> i have  problaim to repecte the dedbian policy
<bashelier> alexises: date ?
<alexises> data 
<bashelier> ok
<alexises> i have 1 zip that the c source code and 1 zip that  compille source code and the file to execute correctely the program
<alexises> thenks for your help and sorry i have don't read that is  english chanel
<jussi01> alexises: have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing ??
<alexises> no thenks
<alexises> i have make an error ?
<alexises> *do
<jussi01> alexises: I dont know, but if you havent read that, you should :D
<alexises> ok i have read  hoxto in french
<bashelier> jussi01: ^^"
<jussi01> bashelier: ??
<bashelier> alexises: what is the problem exactly ?
<bashelier> jussi01: nothing, just about what you have just said :)
<alexises> i donc know to do to respecte the debian policy
<jussi01> hehe :D
<jussi01> alexises: which part of the policy?
<alexises> i have 2 archiev one in a sources code and oine to the resources and the compil programm
<bashelier> alexises: well, you should perhaps read it first, and then tell us what is the problem with your package
<alexises> don't modyfy the original tar.gz
<alexises> ok
<bashelier> alexises: you can repack the orig tarball, see http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-origtargz
<alexises> bashelier : would you my dead
<alexises> fenks
<jussi01> alexises: also http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/index.en.html#contents is very useful
<bashelier> alexises: here are the french translations : http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.fr.html#s-bpp-origtargz and http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/index.fr.html#contents
<fernando> Can somebody to review (and upload if ok) http://www.nerdgroup.org/fernando/ubuntu/gutsy/fwbuilder/ ?
<alexises> i eat the howto
<alexises> it is delichos in french
<bashelier> fernando: could you please run debuild clean before ? :)
<bashelier> alexises: good ^^
* jussi01 is going to bed. goodnight all
<bashelier> sweet dreams jussi01 :)
<pochu> Good night jussi01!
<alexises> ok enks i can reampckt the torball thanks
<bashelier> alexises: np... ^^"
<alexises> it is normal for me te fenks for help me 
<fernando> hey pochu 
<pochu> howdy fernando :)
<DarkSun88> G'night
<fernando> bashelier: clean ok
<LaserJock> anybody know if seahorse works properly with debuild yet?
<RainCT> good night
<bashelier> fernando: then why is there still a /tmp directory in debian/ ? :/
<Cheatr> Could someone here explain to me how to go about fixing unmet dependencies?
<blueyed> Hi.
<Cheatr> hi
<blueyed> Does the following changelog entry look ok? http://paste.lisp.org/display/42129
<blueyed> Cheatr: unmet deps when building a package?
<Cheatr> blueyed: No, unmet dependencies when installing a package.
<bashelier> Cheatr: add Dependencies to the binary package ?
<blueyed> Cheatr: please provide a paste of the output/error.
<fernando> bashelier: sorry, my rsync fail. Now it's ok.
<bashelier> fernando: thanks, looks better now :)
<effie_jayx> nixternal, ping
<Cheatr> bashelier and blueyed: These aren't errors I'm experiencing. I'm interesting in fixing the bugs on launchpad that occur from unmet dependencies. This usually means the package they need is not in the repositories
<fernando> bug #105495 is not pysycache ? psysycache.org not found
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 105495 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  psysycache" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105495
<fernando> can I fix this?
<bashelier> Cheatr: do you have an example ? unmet dependencies are dependencies, which mean packages aire in the repos
<Cheatr> bashelier: All of the bugs here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=datecreated&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.owner=&field.component=4&field.component=3&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.status_upstream=&field.
<Cheatr> status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.tag=unmetdeps&field.has_no_package.used=
<bashelier> outch
<bashelier> fernando: packaging psysycache :)
<Cheatr> bashelier: sorry for the long url: http://tinyurl.com/2ueccz
<fernando> bashelier: Homepage : http://www.psysycache.org/ don't exists
<bashelier> fernando: http://www.pysycache.org/, there is an error in the bug repport
<effie_jayx> leonel,  ping
<blueyed> Is it normal that a debdiff uses paths like "/tmp/J679DF6zT0/duplicity-0.4.2/debian/changelog" - this does not work with the "patch -p1" command in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide/BuildFromDebdiff (it would need "-p4")
<fernando> bashelier: I'm fixing the bug report. I can to package it?
<leonel> effie_jayx: pong
<fernando> s/I\scan/Can\sI/
<bashelier> Cheatr: in this case packages are already in repos, but not installable, which is different, I could be because of conflicts for example
<bashelier> fernando: 1) package it 2) put it on REVU 3) once you get 2 advocatings, set the bug ad "fix commited" 4) once the package is build, set the bug as "fix realised"
<fernando> bashelier: ok, thanks
<effie_jayx> leonel,  could you give me a hand... I have to test build clamav for gutsy it using my pbuilder, make a debdiff, and attach that to a bug so a MOTU can get it an upload it.... can you help me 
<bashelier> fernando: good luck ;)
<fernando> the source is in .zip =)
<Cheatr> bashelier: Thanks for the clarification.
<blueyed> fernando: and fix the URL in the bug desc, while you're at it :)
<leonel> effie_jayx: what you need ? 
<fernando> blueyed: already fixed
<effie_jayx> I have donde merge-buildpackage
<leonel> effie_jayx: do you want me to download   clamav for gutsy  and test it ?
<fernando> the source have 31 MB o0
<effie_jayx> leonel, I am learning ... I need to know where to go next
<effie_jayx> leonel,  I need to test build it first
<leonel> effie_jayx: I don't have gutsy installed    I'm planning to install it  on  sunday to start  testing  things there
<effie_jayx> leonel,  I have a pbuilder for gutsy
<leonel> effie_jayx: hold on  let me install gutsy  now  
<leonel> give me  time to do so 
<effie_jayx> leonel,  you don't have to do that... I can pbuild-gutsy
<leonel> but that's for building  isn't it ?
<blueyed> Ok. About the -p4 vs -p1 thing in the debdiff. I've installed patchutils, as suggested by debdiff and now it looks better. JFI.
<leonel> a you want me to build it ?
<leonel> OK
<leonel> that's faster
<effie_jayx> leonel,  I need to test build it .. yes
<effie_jayx> and then do a debdiff
<leonel> ok hold on let me  do the pbuilder  for  gutsy
<leonel> wow  
<effie_jayx> leonel,  what happened?
<leonel> how do I create for gutsy  in feisty  just  rename   pbuilder-feisty to pbuilder-gutsy 
<leonel> or do I need another package ?
<effie_jayx> leonel,  rename ... that's it
<leonel> effie_jayx: when I ran it  this  message gives :
<leonel> E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/gutsy
<effie_jayx> you executed ? what
<leonel> sh pbuilder-gutsy create 
<blueyed> "The upload target must be release-proposed" at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU is obsolete/wrong, isn't it?
<crimsun> blueyed: wrong?  for an SRU?  No.
<crimsun> the initial upload of an SRU is always to $release-proposed
<leonel> crimsun: to create pbuilder for  gutsy  in feisty   ?
<blueyed> crimsun: ah, sure. I'd thought it refered to the changelog entry.
<crimsun> blueyed: it does.  The distribution entry is $release-proposed.
<effie_jayx> leonel,  I just pbuild-gusty
<effie_jayx> all ok
<crimsun> leonel: you could backport/use gutsy's
<crimsun> leonel: or just create a feisty one and dist-upgrade using login --save-after-login
<leonel> ok 
<leonel> thanks
<blueyed> Hasn't that changed recently, crimsun? I think I've read about in in the UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter. Or was this for -backports?
<leonel> crimsun: or if I have gutsy installed  just  use the pbuilder script ...
<leonel> ?
<crimsun> leonel: correct
<crimsun> blueyed: has "what" changed?
<leonel> ok  I needed to install gutsy anyway 
<leonel> hold on
<effie_jayx> leonel,  
<effie_jayx> I did the pbuild now I debdiff from the debian .dsc ?
<blueyed> crimsun: That "-proposed" is not needed anymore. Sorry, I'll just change it in the debdiff, according to the wiki.
<leonel> effie_jayx:  yes
<effie_jayx> leonel,  the diff file must have a name? a specific name?
<crimsun> blueyed: I've not seen it come across -devel, -devel-discuss, or -devel-announce
<leonel> no just a representative name      .debdiff
<effie_jayx> leonel,  then what do I attachto a bug for a motu to upload?
<leonel> attach the debdiff   saying it's a patch  
<crimsun> blueyed: the only recent change I'm aware of for SRU is that we no longer do a second upload to $release-updates.  Soyuz has the functionality now to handle $release-proposed -> $release-updates.
<effie_jayx> ok
<leonel> effie_jayx: and a description of what it does
<effie_jayx> leonel,  ok
<blueyed> Yes, crimsun. I've confused this. Sorry.
<effie_jayx> leonel,  the debdiff doesn't show the change I did ... is that ok?
<leonel> how you did  the debdiff ?
<effie_jayx> leonel,  debdiff clamav_0.90.3-1.dsc clamav_0.90.3-1ubuntu1.dsc > ubuclamav_0.90.3-1.diff
<leonel> there must be  changes  
<leonel> was that a patch  or merge?
<leonel> was a merge ..
<leonel> WE need  help ...
<leonel> I'm learning too  and  never done a merge 
<effie_jayx> leonel,  well I did a change followin the instructions so everything should be fine
<effie_jayx> If I did the changes 
<effie_jayx> the debdiff should not show any more changes... 
<effie_jayx> but that's just my common sence
<effie_jayx> crimsun, a question... I am merging a package... I applied the change to the file... pbuild it.. do a debdiff and I get no futher changes on the debdiff
<effie_jayx> is that ok?
<effie_jayx> leonel,  my common sence tells me we are on the right path
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  ping
<leonel> If you did all right  that's the way ..
<effie_jayx> leonel,  i remember ScottK 's words ... so it should be ok
<leonel> ok
<blueyed> Is bug 88617 ok for SRU now?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 88617 in duplicity "incremental backup does not work" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88617
<effie_jayx> leonel,  you just merged clamav for feisty didnt you?
* AndyP boggles at fedora's sponsorship process
<effie_jayx> leonel,  ok ... what Should I attach to a bug :S
<superm1> crimsun, I fixed the two changes you had mentioned in libhdhomerun yesterday.  Would you be able to give it a formal/revu/advocation/upload etc?
<crimsun> effie_jayx: what do you mean that you "get no further changes on the debdiff"?
<crimsun> blueyed: we don't place "* Non-maintainer upload" in our changelog entries.
<crimsun> blueyed: furthermore, the -proposed version should be 0.4.2-10.1ubuntu1.1, not 0.4.2-10.1ubuntu2
<crimsun> blueyed: with those changes made, the SRU proposed debdiff looks ok
<crimsun> superm1: I'll look now.
<superm1> thanks crimsun 
<blueyed> crimsun: fixed. Thanks for reviewing. Now I'll have to wait until somebody uploads it, correct?
<crimsun> blueyed: I'll review it in a few minutes.
<crimsun> superm1: any reason you wanted to GPL your packaging instead of LGPL?
<superm1> didnt matter to me one way or another
<superm1> figured it would be easier for same license on everything
<crimsun> (it doesn't effectively change much, but be aware that there's no COPYING or gpl.txt, which you do have to distribute if you GPL it.)
<crimsun> currently there are two referenced licenses in the source package, LGPL and GPL.  libhdhomerun itself is LGPL; your packaging is GPL.
<superm1> and the lgpl.txt will only cover the source itself
<superm1> i see
<superm1> so both *should* be shipped in this case
<crimsun> yes, since you explicitly state the packaging is redistributable under GPL.
<superm1> then i think it will be easiest to just license as all LGPL
<superm1> i'll switch that around
<pochu> Good night everybody!
<TheMuso> grrr. Gotta love big companies.
<TheMuso> So IBM just dropped GNOME accessibility development.
<crimsun> utterly, or just sponsorship?
<TheMuso> crimsun: LSR development is being stopped, and the other bits are only going to be kept up to date until someone else from the community knows them well enough to take over maintainership.
<crimsun> hmph.
<TheMuso> As much as I'd rather one screen reader, I'm pretty pissed off right now.
<TheMuso> THings like this only cause me to loose faith in companies involved with Linux.
<crimsun> that may be a bit hasty
<TheMuso> Canonical is an exception.
<TheMuso> crimsun: May be, but thats the way I feel at the moment.
<crimsun> superm1 has access to bluepages, but if he sees anything marked Conf, I doubt he can divulge. :-)
<superm1> hehe
<superm1> crimsun, what are you asking me to do here....... :)
<crimsun> nothing at all.  Been in that position.
<superm1> any idea who in IBM was supporting it before?
<crimsun> Peter Parente seems to have written the status update
<crimsun> [http://mail.gnome.org/archives/lsr-list/2007-June/msg00000.html] 
<effie_jayx> crimsun,  leonel  and I need some help with a merge... we are learning...
<effie_jayx> be back in a while 
<crimsun> ok
<superm1> crimsun, provided that is all you found with the package, here is the updated: http://revu.tauware.de./details.py?upid=5342
<superm1> after browsing a bit, there isn't anything overly informative internally.  most of the internal sites just link to the project on gnome.org anyhow.  Parente doesn't even have an internal blog.
<crimsun> that's ok, I didn't either :-)
<TheMuso> I'll cool down. Just a little pissed.
<TheMuso> They've decided to focus on cross-platform stuff.
<superm1> my only entry on my internal blog is my experience setting up feisty in IBM
<crimsun> yay -> hobbsee
<superm1> crimsun, thx for the revu.  Should I yet grab one more (or grab ScottK again) or can you upload on that basis?
<crimsun> superm1: read -motu :)
<crimsun> (or https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-June/001684.html if you need a direct URL)
<superm1> oh awesome!.  Thanks crimsun 
<crimsun> np, thank -you-
<Daskreech> What happened to the commercal repo?
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<Daskreech> TheMuso: Was that for me?
<TheMuso> Daskreech: No/
<TheMuso> Just my KVM playing up.
<Daskreech> ok
<Daskreech> Is the Commercial repo intended to be LTS only or has the idea been dropped?
<lathiat> im pretty sure theres like vmware and such in the feisty commemrcial repo?
<Daskreech> there is a commercial repo?
<Daskreech> well I stopped trying n edgy 
<Daskreech>  ti didn't work in edgy
<Daskreech> it's still there?
<superm1> between edgy commercial and feisty commercial i see opera realplay and vmware server
<superm1> and i just installed opera from it no problem
<Daskreech> Ah Ok. what are the requirements to get on that repo?
<Daskreech> free and non-speech free ?
<superm1> deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ edgy-commercial main
<superm1> deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ feisty-commercial main
<superm1> is what i have
<Daskreech> ok
<nixternal> this libhttp package is a bigger pain than I thought...possibly to the point to where I am going to create a fork of the original to satisfy emdebian
<nixternal> hiya Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> hey nixternal!
* Daskreech hugs nixternal
<Hobbsee> crimsun: :)
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  ping
<nixternal> effie_jayx: pong?
<leonel> motus  good night ..
<wattazoum> Hello, 
<wattazoum> I am here for my first active Hug Day
<wattazoum> :)
<jussi01> damn, where is persia when you need him...
<wattazoum> jussi01: who is persia ?
<jussi01> wattazoum: persia is one of the MOTU's and my mentor. https://launchpad.net/~persia
<wattazoum> jussi01: nice then :-) 
<wattazoum> jussi01: that's my first time coming here for HUG day
<wattazoum> do I need a mentor ?
<jussi01> wattazoum: I think maybe you should check in at #ubuntu-bugs . the mentor is for if you are considering becoming a motu. see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<wattazoum> jussi01: thank you ;-)
<jussi01> :)
<joejaxx> Hello All
<r00tintheb0x> hi
<crimsun> hmm.  rhythmbox 0.10.90-0ubuntu1 doesn't have the tag parsing bug.
<crimsun> time for some bug hunting!
<joejaxx> :)
<StevenK> Wabbit Season!
<r00tintheb0x> :)
<r00tintheb0x> w00tb1t season
<crimsun> mmm zing.
<crimsun> gnome 442792
<ubotu> Gnome bug 442792 in Importing "ignores tags with trailing spaces" [Normal,New]  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=442792
<crimsun> verified with id3tag -n -w  (from the libid3-3.8.3-dev package)
<Bixente> ~OSOSOROROS[15~[17~qOROS[15~OROS[15~[17~/quit
<crimsun> why yes.
<r00tintheb0x> heh
<Q-FUNK> can anybody make sense of this? http://rerun.lefant.net/checklib/log.planner_0.14-10.html
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<RainCT> Hi
<DktrKranz> Could you please take a look at the debdiff present in bug #117793? It contains several install/remove fixes
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117793 in dbmail "/var/run/dbmail disappears" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117793
<jekil> hello
* pochu waves
<afflux> crimsun: I uploaded the debdiff for bug 117847 again.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117847 in camorama "[Fakemerge]  Please merge camorama 0.18-2 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117847
<RainCT> how can I see from what package provides a command?
<pochu> RainCT: dpkg-query -S <file>
<RainCT> pochu: thanks
<joejaxx> Hello Everyone :)
<Adri2000> Kmos: why did you add the tag upgrade to the doodle sync request? 'upgrade' if for bugs requesting a new upstream release
<Kmos> Adri2000: i thought it was for sync too
<Kmos> Adri2000: there isn't any tag for that ?
<Kmos> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Tags
<Adri2000> Kmos: maybe there is a tag 'sync', but I don't know what its purpose is. anyway upgrade is wrong for a sync request.
<Kmos> Adri2000: ok, thx for your explanation
<bashelier> asac: ping
<Hobbsee> evening all
<bashelier> hey Hobbsee :)
<bashelier> (I forgot, congrats!)
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  :D
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  could you give me a hand with a small merge? I am trying to learn...
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: i'm eating dinner at the moment, but it should be OK
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I'll wait :D
<RainCT> are there many small packages like xpenguin?
<leonel> ea ea  good moring ..
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: what were you after?
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I have been learning to do merges.. i was given a task.
<effie_jayx> and I am trying to finish it...
<Hobbsee> woo :)
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I am merging clamav 
<Hobbsee> ooh, fun
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I am stuck doing the debdiff I guess... 
<Hobbsee> right
<Hobbsee> what have you done so far?
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I just want to check this... After I make the small modification in the file (The one suggested by the patch)
<Hobbsee> yep
<effie_jayx> I do ../merge-buildpackage an It all goes ok...
<effie_jayx> next is debdiff... here I take the two .dsc the debian one and the ubuntu one... 
<effie_jayx> I did it and the output file looks like this... 
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23711/
* Hobbsee looks
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: right
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  did I do something wrong?
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: it appears you've dropped one of the changes
<effie_jayx> ups
<Hobbsee> apart from that, it looks perfect
<Hobbsee> +    - debian/clamav-freshclam.init.in specify pidfile when starting.  
<Hobbsee> that change doesnt seem to be in there
<Hobbsee> yet it is in the output MOM gaves you
<effie_jayx> mmm... It must have been the debdiff I did 
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I was checking the file that was supposed to have the changes and I saw that the change wasn't there
<Hobbsee> sorry?
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> If I check the .patch
<Hobbsee> which file that was supposed to have the changes?
<Hobbsee> http://merges.ubuntu.com/c/clamav/clamav_0.90.3-1ubuntu1.patch was the patch i was looking at
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  yes...
<effie_jayx> this bit http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23712/
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: right, that that bit wasnt in your debdiff?
<effie_jayx> nope
<Hobbsee> so you need to fix it so it is :)
<Hobbsee> the same way you did the maintainer, etc
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  sorry that isn't it
* effie_jayx looks at the wrong patch
<Hobbsee> oh?
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23713/    this is it... 
<Hobbsee> patch seems the same to me, just with a line above
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> when I open clamav-freshclam.init.in I find the line with the + on the patch
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: when did you change that?
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I didn't 
<Hobbsee> ie, before or after you ran the ../merge-buildpackage, adn made the debdiff?
<Hobbsee> right - i wonder if the original debian source has changed it too
<effie_jayx> I can paste the line on the file for you to see.. it came like that
<Hobbsee> grab the debian source (it's in your directory if you used grab-merge.sh), use dpkg-source -x debian_thing.dsc,  and have a look if that has that there
<Hobbsee> it's odd that MOM would put that output there, if debian's...
<Hobbsee> oh, i know.
<Hobbsee> wait a sec
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I am using DaD... i
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: well, assuming that works the same way as MOM, the directory it creates for you is the one where all it's changes are merged in as much as possible
<Hobbsee> which in this case is completely, as there are no conflicts
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  where should I look now...
<Hobbsee> which doesnt actually explain why that hasnt shown in the diff from debian....
* Hobbsee looks again
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  should I do a debdiff again
<effie_jayx> just to check
<Hobbsee> did you do the debdiff against the latest debian, and the version that you want to go into ubuntu?
<effie_jayx> yes
<Hobbsee> right
<effie_jayx> let me do i again just to be sure
<Hobbsee> go ahead and do the debdiff again, it wont hurt
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  ok... I did the debdiff and the changes are there...
<Hobbsee> great :
<Hobbsee> _
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee, let me test build it 
<Hobbsee> ok
<Hobbsee> remember that you'll have to use ../merge-buildpackage again after you test build it
<effie_jayx> ok I got lost ... 
<Hobbsee> ie, part of what's called in merge-buildpackage is also called when you test build
<Hobbsee> just with different parameters
<Hobbsee> so it'll overwrite your .diff.gz/.dsc each time you run it
<effie_jayx> ammm
<effie_jayx> ok
<Hobbsee> which is fine, as long as you dont change your source directory
<Hobbsee> ie, what the buildpackage does, is say 'okay, this is what's in the source directory, let's chuck it into the .diff.gz and the .dsc)
<Hobbsee> if that makes sense
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee, it does... 
<Hobbsee> :)
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I have a pbuilder-gutsy ... just to be sure... what should I test?
<Hobbsee> if it builds, if it installs, preferably if it works, too
<Hobbsee> but at least hte first two
<bashelier> doko: ping
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  it builds fine
<Hobbsee> yay :)
<Hobbsee> does it install?
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I'll try
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  how can I install :S
<Hobbsee> use pbuilder-gutsy login --bindmounts /var/cache/pbuilder/result and install the deb, and use apt-get -f install to install the needed dependancies
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  W: /home/valles/.pbuilderrc does not exist
<VoX> hm where would i report a kernel bug?
<Hobbsee> it's a warning, you can ignore it
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  File extracted to: /var/cache/pbuilder/build//3052
<VoX> well, i think it's a kernel bug
<StevenK> effie_jayx: You should have a root prompt.
<effie_jayx> StevenK,  I do
<StevenK> effie_jayx: So now dpkg -i the .deb and then apt-get -f install
<StevenK> Note to self: You don't have tab completion of commands in IRC.
<effie_jayx> where is the .deb 
<Hobbsee>  /var/cache/pbuilder/result usually
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  empty
<Hobbsee> assuming you havent changed the default
<StevenK> pbuilder-gutsy may set it to be under ~
<Hobbsee> right, then either --bindmounts buggered up, or you're getting teh result in a different place
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  File extracted to: /var/cache/pbuilder/build//30527 
<effie_jayx> StevenK,  it was home
<effie_jayx> pbuilder folder
<StevenK> effie_jayx: Then --bindmounts /home/valles/pbuilder
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: you need to --bindmounts whatever directory you want to be able to use in the pbuilder - which tends to be the results dir
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> got it
<polopolo> Hello, Can I also upload programs that's be newer then in the ubuntu program list
<polopolo> ?
<Hobbsee> to revu?  yes
<polopolo> So it's been in a newer version of ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> sorry?
<Hobbsee> you can upload a newer version of a program than is in the development release to REVU, yes.
<polopolo> ok
<polopolo> And then that version is intergrated in the version of ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> effectively
<Hobbsee> the aim is that your packaging of the new upstream version is good enough to go directly into ubuntu
<polopolo> great
<polopolo> ok, thank you again Hobbesee
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  dependecy problems when isntalling
<StevenK> "and use 
<StevenK>                    apt-get -f install to install the needed dependancies"
<StevenK> Like she said over 20 minutes ago
<effie_jayx> StevenK,  sorry
<ScottK> effie_jayx: How is it going?
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  it's going
<ScottK> effie_jayx: OK.  I'm here if you need help.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I checked again... the guys here helped me build and install
<ScottK> effie_jayx: OK.  Do you have a good debdiff now?
<effie_jayx> let me show you
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23726/ debdiff 
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Somehow the change to $PIDFILE got lost in what you where doing.  This is how it should look http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23727/
<effie_jayx> I see
<ScottK> effie_jayx: This particular merge seems to have had a lot of odd twists and turns (this definitely gets easier in time).  Rather than go back and redo everything, I'd say lets move forward in the process with the debdiff as I edited it.
<ScottK> effie_jayx: The next step is for you to take the debdiff and attach it to a bug asking for the merge.  Bug #112710 is an example.  Post the bug number here when you've done that.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112710 in clamav "Merge clamav 0.90.2-1 from Debian Unstable (Main)" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112710
<Lutin> ScottK: the $PIDFILE didn't get lost in what effie_jayx is doing, as it's not in the ubuntu package presently in the archive 
<ScottK> Lutin: We made the change earlier.  That's what should be there.  It looks like I screwed up the last merge somehow.
<Lutin> ok
<ScottK> Which is part of why I'm anxious to get this upload done before they cut a CD next week.
<Hobbsee> it's only universe
<Hobbsee> as in, so wont freeze as early as main does
<ScottK> Yes, but I am assuming once the CD is out people will use it and probably someone will use this package.
<Hobbsee> sure, but universe keeps updating
<ScottK> So I'd like to get it fixed... (especially since I broke it).
<Hobbsee> so they'll just get the package upgrade
<Hobbsee> so why havent you fixed it yet? 
<Hobbsee> or uploaded someone else's fix?
<LasoL> hi
<Lutin> hi LasoL 
<Hobbsee> hiya
<ScottK> Because I noticed the problem while helping effie_jayx with the merge, so it seemed simpler just to get it right in the merge.
<ScottK> Hi lasol
<Hobbsee> true
<LasoL> i want to contribute on ubuntu. I am developer, and i could write code, and make packages. Hi have read the web page about how to be a MOTU. And i have write to a mentor offered of motu. But, this is all? what can i do now? wait for a mail with a mentor?
<LasoL> i think that on first time, i may to start doing packaging for meet people. But really i want write code. What do you think?
<ScottK> LasoL: You can always jump in and get to work on something.  One thing to do to get started (particularly if you want to code) is look for bugs in Universe packages you can fix.  We can help you get the fixes uploaded.
<LasoL> look for bugs in launchpad do you mean?
<ScottK> LasoL: Yes.
<ScottK> LasoL: What languages do you code in?  Someone here may have a pet bug you could look into.
<LasoL> i can code, c, c++, java and php/mysql
<ScottK> Anyone got a bug that's been bothering them that LasoL can work on?
<Hobbsee> sure, there's plenty in kde *g*
<Hobbsee> but that tends to require QT knowledge
<LasoL> i dont have qt knowledge :(
<StevenK> I'm looking at a inkscape bug, but it seems to be subtle and require Glib knowledge.
<LasoL> neither
<LasoL> i think that i may to learn glib
<joumetal> bug 118316 if merging sounds intresting.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118316 in ndisgtk "Merge ndisgtk 0.7 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118316
<joumetal> its' filed by Debian developer of that package.
<LasoL> ok, and how can i help on it? 
<joumetal> Here is instruction how to merge. I can't help further but in this channel you can get help. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging? 
<jrib> LasoL: you could try to search for the "bitesize" tagged bugs too
<RainCT> can somebody appoint me of an easy package I can try to merge?
<LasoL> there arent mentors for fix bugs?
<ScottK> LasoL: If it's a universe pacakage, ask here.  Someone will help.
<ScottK> effie_jayx: I'm making two small changes to your merge.  I removed the blank line in the middle of the changes and changed urgency from high to low (Ubuntu doesn't use that).  Other than that, it's all good.  I'm doing a test build and then I'll upload it.
<effie_jayx> ScottK, good
<ScottK> jdong: Did you see my ping the other day about clamtk backport to Feisty?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Uploaded.  Thank you for contributing.
<ScottK> effie_jayx: See https://launchpad.net/~effie-jayx/+packages
<RainCT> are bug reports send by mail published immediately?
<ScottK> RainCT: If your definition of immediately includes a 10 - 15 minute delay, yes.  Otherwise, No.
<RainCT> ScottK: ok thx
<Pathum> can someone help mw with Kopete?
<RainCT> If I opened a merge bug but the package can be synced should I reject it or wait until the sync and the set it as fix released?
<ScottK> RainCT: If the package has an existing Ubuntu diff, it won't be autoamtically synced, it needs a sync bug.  Edit the merge bug into a sync bug and subscribe UUS after you are done.
<RainCT> ScottK: okay thanks :)
<bmm> Ping for anybody wanting to review or advocate ccbuild on REVU http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5295
<RainCT> Can somebody help me configure lpbugs.py for my mail?
<LaserJock> minghua: fine ;-)
* minghua hugs LaserJock
<minghua> LaserJock: just wondering, not pushing :-)
<LaserJock> minghua: just to be clear, I get the results that are listed under "For comparison Octave 2.1.73:"
<minghua> I remember the correct one should be 4
<minghua> but let me look again
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I et 4
<LaserJock> *get
<minghua> LaserJock: yeah, 4 is the correct answer
<LaserJock> ok, comment added
<minghua> LaserJock: thanks
<minghua> the thing is, octave2.1 in feisty also build-depends on gfortran
<minghua> which makes the whole argument quite shaky
<minghua> be back later
<superm1> LaserJock, you get my mail yesterday?
<RainCT> can somebody help me with lpbugs.py?
<LaserJock> superm1: ah, yes. thanks
<superm1> LaserJock, work for you?
<LaserJock> haven't tried it yet, but I'm going to
<LaserJock> I actually don't run debuild on my laptop much, which is where i installed seahorse
<superm1> ah okay.  found it on a launchpad bug some time back
<alexises> hello hevery one
<alexises> wan i have some help for my debian package
<alexises> i have ceat 2 debian package for a game
<alexises> and i would like you veryfie my debian rules
<alexises> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23767/
<RainCT> Can someone appoint me on how to merge xmms? the build dependences are different and on ubuntu's there is a file with a path to python2.5 while debian's goes to python2.4
<jussi01> alexises: it would be much easier if we had th whole package. you can use revu for this.
<jussi01> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<alexises> ok thenks
<alexises> i have not yet use revu aber i have a usaccont at launchpad
<jussi01> alexises: once you have sorted out the revu details, you need the revu keyring synced. LaserJock ajmitch and others can help with this.
<bashelier> mr_pouit: are you using an alternative os ? ^^"
<LaserJock> RainCT: Debian's default python version is 2.4 and Ubuntu's is 2.5
<RainCT> LaserJock: so I should let Ubuntu's there, or? and what's with the dependences?
<alexises> ho it is hard for me
<LaserJock> RainCT: well, the new Debian python policy should make it so you shouldn't need to specify a version
<RainCT> LaserJock: it's a file called `python-xmmsclient.install' with the content (on Debian) `usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/*'
<LaserJock> RainCT: does it have a dependency on python-central in debian/control?
<RainCT> LaserJock: no, on python and python-dev
<LaserJock> hmm
<RainCT> LaserJock: (after looking deeper on them, the dependencies are correct)
<LaserJock> how do you mean?
<RainCT> LaserJock: I thought build-depends was also different but it's ok
<RainCT> LaserJock: so the only difference is that file with python2.4
<LaserJock> did you check the Ubuntu changelog?
<RainCT> LaserJock: for what?
<LaserJock> xmms
<RainCT> LaserJock: yes but after what should I look there?
<LaserJock> all the changes made by Ubuntu
<RainCT> ah yes
<RainCT> it's there
<RainCT> * debian/python-xmmsclient.install: Fix path for python 2.5 module 
<LaserJock> you need to make sure that they are either included in the newer version from Debian or you re-apply them
<RainCT> LaserJock: so what have I to do? post a .patch on LP?
<RainCT> LaserJock: yes as I said everything is the same, beside this file where it says python2.4 instead of python2.5
<LaserJock> RainCT: so you added the .desktop chages and debian/rules stuff?
<RainCT> LaserJock: eh? it says nothing about a .desktop file on the changelog
<LaserJock> your doing xmms right?
<RainCT> LaserJock: yes. http://merges.ubuntu.com/x/xmms2/
<RainCT> ah wait
<LaserJock> xmms2
<RainCT> LaserJock: isn't it the same? I can't find xmms2 with apt-cache
<LaserJock> they aren't the same
<LaserJock> RainCT: xmms2 has never built in gutsy
<RainCT> ag
<RainCT> * ah
<LaserJock> nor in feisty that I can tell
<RainCT> because libfaad2-dev or wasn't this required in previous versions?
<RainCT> (installing the build dependences it says libfaad2-dev doesn't exist)
<LaserJock> Checking for working C compiler... no
<LaserJock> OPTION CC MUST POINT TO A VALID C COMPILER!
<Lutin> LaserJock: this is the scons bug I guess ?
<LaserJock> looks like it to me
* jussi01 smacks scons...
<RainCT> I think scons isn't required anymore (can confirm that in a few minutes)
<Lutin> I've looked into that bug some time ago, but has not been able to find out any significant information :/
<Lutin> have*
<RainCT> confirmed, scons isn't needed anymore
<RainCT> but there is now that libfaad2-dev. don't know if it's in gutsy, but I can't find it for Feisty
<RainCT> btw, what's the difference between debuild -S and debuild -S -sa?
<LaserJock> -sa includes the .orig.tar.gz in the .dsc
<LaserJock> so that would be if there as a new upstream release
<LaserJock> and you needed to upload the new .orig.tar.gz
<alexises> can i have some helmp to register me to revu if possible in french 
<alexises> i have yet read the howto
<stgraber> alexises: do you have a gpg key added to your LP profile ?
<alexises> not yet
<alexises> aber i have yet  gpg key
<Lutin> alexises: s/aber/but
<alexises> ho sorry i sprehc german in deutch
<alexises> *speak
<alexises> *english
<RainCT> Is the merge debdiff in bug #118422 okay? (beside it doesn't build because libfaad-dev isn't there)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118422 in xmms2 "xmms2: merge new debian version" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118422
<stgraber> ok, then start by adding your GPG key to your LP profile
<alexises> ok
<RainCT> lucas: where can I find the build logs?
<alexises> how i install my gpg key  in my lunchpad accont
<Lutin> RainCT: you've discarded another change (build-depend on git-core) and forgot to mention the maintainer change as an ubuntu change
<bashelier> hey Lutin :)
<Lutin> RainCT: unless there's a reason to drop this B-D of course
<Lutin> heya bashelier 
<Lutin> how're doing ? ;)
<Lutin> +you
<RainCT> Lutin: the maintainer field changed since 0.2DrHouse-3.1ubuntu3
<alexises> stgraber woh i add my gpg key in lunchpad
<Lutin> RainCT: and as a consequence, it's an ubuntu change, isn't it ?
<bashelier> Lutin: fine fine :) what about you ?
<Lutin> bashelier: quite good, thanks
<RainCT> Lutin: yes, but it's already on the changelog on that verison changes
<stgraber> alexises: https://launchpad.net/~YOUR-ACCOUNT/+editpgpkeys
<alexises> ok
<RainCT> Lutin: or does it need to be written again for each merge?
<stgraber> alexises: then put your GPG fingerprint and click the import key button
<Lutin> RainCT: for each new merge you have to list all the ubuntu changes remaining to the package I'd say
<RainCT> Lutin: ah okay
<Lutin> RainCT: but even if you don't list the maintainer thing, the git-core thing remains
<Lutin> as you've not stated any reason to drop it, I assume we have to keep it ?
<RainCT> Lutin: okay, added both and debuilding
<Lutin> RainCT: ok
<RainCT> Lutin: uploaded
<ScottK> LaserJock: I just dput the merge of python-scipy from Debian experimental.  It might actually work with python-numpy now once that's built.
<Lutin> RainCT: looks way better
<RainCT> :)
<jussi01> Hmmm, could someone take a quick read of my wiki and make sure I havent any spelling/gramamtical errors? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JussiSchultink?action=show thanks :D
<LaserJock> ScottK: excellent, thanks
<stgraber> jussi01: the style of the Forums line doesn't look right
<ScottK> No problem.  We are now one patch away from a Synch with Debian, BTW.
<RainCT> Lutin: so what's with that lib?
<Lutin> RainCT: just noticed that XS-Python-Version would require an update from 2.4 to 2.5. as I'm reviewing the package, do you mind if I updtae it directly ?
<jussi01> stgraber: how so? if you like suggest a change?
<Lutin> RainCT: what lib ?
<RainCT> Lutin: libfaad-dev
<Lutin> RainCT: what was the issue with it ?
<Lutin> doesn't exist in ubuntu ?
<RainCT> Lutin: it doesn't exist in Ubuntu
<RainCT> at least not in Feisty
<Lutin> guess libfaad2-dev is 
<Lutin> looks like a perfect replacement
<RainCT> let's try
<stgraber> jussi01: refresh
<jussi01> stgraber: doesnt seem any different to me...
<jussi01> ahh...now then
<jussi01> :D thanks
<stgraber> moved Forum to Ubuntuforums, put it into bold and put a link to your forum profile instead of simply your forum name
<alexises> i have install my gpg key in lunchpad
<bashelier> alexises: good :)
<alexises> wath i do after
<alexises> *what
<bashelier> alexises: so, you would like to upload a package on revu, right ?
<alexises> yes
<bashelier> alexises: then, first do debuild -S -sa -kKEY_ID
<jussi01> stgraber: that works excellent now, thanks. o you have any other feed back?
<bashelier> alexises: where KEY_ID, is the id of your gpg key, for example 21275CC4
<alexises> i have yet do on may debian package 
<stgraber> alexises: join the https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-contributors team
<alexises> i have already suscrypte
<stgraber> alexises: then you'll have to wait till someone update the keyring, once done you'll be able to upload to revu
<alexises> ok
<Lutin> uh, wtf ? xmms2 in debian is missing 2 changelog entries
<RainCT> eh?
<Lutin> RainCT: look at your debdiff, it's including two unstable changelog entries
<Lutin> seems that the entries dor DrHouse-3 and -3.1 just got nuked
<Lutin> (in debian)
<RainCT> oh :s
<LaserJock> Lutin: where they in experimental?
<LaserJock> sometimes that happens
<Lutin> LaserJock: no, they were in unstable
<RainCT> Lutin: will you open a bug report there? or just ignore this, as it isn't our problem?
<Lutin> RainCT: I'll refer to one of the MOTU deities :)
<RainCT> well, it seems the package is building
<LaserJock> I wouldn't really consider it a bug
<LaserJock> you could always email the maintainer to let them know
<Lutin> LaserJock: what's the best hing to do in that case, just include the missing entries in the upload ?
<RainCT> they will probably wait for the next version to fix it then? because it's just stupid to let people download again that package of many MB only because of the changelog
* ScottK would include them since (I think) they'd show up in the diff and then mention it as an Ubuntu unique change.
<alexises> stgber : ho low time to update the keyring ?
<Lutin> yep. and would avoid the question 'why do we have -3.1ubuntu1 as debian stops to -2 ?'
<LaserJock> Lutin: not on the Ubuntu end
<Lutin> LaserJock: why ?
<LaserJock> ScottK: yeah, but just emailing the maintainer is the best way to go
<LaserJock> it's useless diff
<Lutin> sure
<Lutin> sigh. fails to build on amd64
<RainCT> shall I mail him?
<LaserJock> I'm fairly sure it isn't a Policy violation or anything like that
* ScottK agrees with e-mailling the maintainer, but would personally prefer to keep the Ubuntu changelog complete in the meantime.  I can see going either way.
<LaserJock> could be wrong though
* RainCT agrees with ScottK
<LaserJock> I suppose it would only hurt if they aren't identical and you get a conflict in the changelog
<RainCT> Lutin: I could build it
<RainCT> just finished
<Lutin> RainCT: but you don't have an amd64, do you ?
<RainCT> no :p
<RainCT> Lutin: where can you see if it build?
<Lutin> RainCT: well, look a the result of your pbuilder :)
<jussi01> alexises: just kindly ask LaserJockto help... he does that stuff...
<RainCT> ah ok
<RainCT> Lutin: can you simulate whatever you want there?
<Lutin> RainCT: I don't understand, sorry
<RainCT> Lutin: can you simulate an amd64 there, or do have you one? 
<RainCT> * do you have
<Lutin> I have one
<RainCT> ah :p
<RainCT> you've the last debdiff?
<Lutin> yes 
<LaserJock> alexises: I'm updating the keyring right now, I'll let you know when it's done
<lucas> RainCT: on launchpad, on the source package page
<RainCT> Lutin: no idea what's the problem?
<Lutin> RainCT: I know what the problem is
<Lutin> I also know I'm not able to fix it
<RainCT> ah great
<RainCT> lucas: ok thanks
<Lutin> RainCT: btw, you have to mention the faad change in the changelog
<RainCT> eh.. no
<RainCT> one moment
<LaserJock> ScottK: do you work with CVEs much?
<alexises> thenks
<RainCT> I've one question.. if one out of all the packages generated by xmms2 is changed, do all other ones get updated too (and users have to download them again)?
<RainCT> Lutin: done
<Lutin> yes
<RainCT> why are there then that many packages?
<Lutin> RainCT: err. this is not a merged ubuntu change, but a new change, so you have to list it in a different changelog point
<Lutin> hum, seems there is something that screws up with the dts change in ffmpeg during the xmms2 build
<LaserJock> RainCT: you think there should be fewer packages?
<RainCT> Lutin: uploaded
<mwolson> i'm contemplating using Qemu and some Ubuntu-based media distro CD to play media, since vlc and gxine are both broken in gutsy at the moment
<RainCT> LaserJock: well, I don't see the sense of having that many packages depending each on another if they anyways have to be downloaded all again if one of them changes
<Dabian> mwolson: What about GNU Emacs ... is that vers. 22 it gut now?
<Dabian> s/22 it/22 in/
<Dabian> s/gut/gutsy/
<RainCT> LaserJock: i've already installed 5 packages to be able to install the main xmms2 one
<mwolson> Dabian: i don't see it there, though gutsy does have a very recent build of emacs-snapshot
<LaserJock> RainCT: that's the nature of it. Your going to have to download it one way or another
<LaserJock> RainCT: splitting it up is mostly just a logical and organizational tool
<LaserJock> RainCT: and allows for some more fine grained control
<LaserJock> if you were to build it from source you'd have to do the same thing
<RainCT> well.. is there a command to install .debs from terminal?
<Dabian> mwolson: There are problems with the jde-package and GNU Emacs in fiesty .. do you have an email I may use to get help fixing that, or are you too busy?
<RainCT> and that accepts *.deb
<Dabian> (It seems people are using vi and python instead, generally)
* RainCT brb
<Lutin> siretart: around ?
<LaserJock> alexises: it's done syncing, you can upload source packages (make sure to use source.changes file) to REVU now
<LaserJock> RainCT: dpkg -i ?
<mwolson> Dabian: email me: mwolson at member dot fsf dot org and I'll try to fix it; be specific about what version of Emacs you're using; no guarantees though
<mwolson> Dabian: actually ... hold on a sec
<Dabian> mwolson: OK
<alexises> thenks
<mwolson> Dabian: go here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jde/, see if the bug already exists, create a new bug otherwise, and let me know what the resulting bug number is
<Lutin> siretart: I saw you removed the dts support from ffmpeg. as libavcodec-dev no longer depends on libdts-dev and liba52-dev, they should no longer appear in ffmpeg-config --libs avcodec, should they ? that screws some builds up. (eg. xmms2)
<Dabian> mwolson: The bug is already confirmed.
<Dabian> mwolson: 115527
<Lutin> RainCT: I can't upload the package for now, it's going to FTBFS on all archs from what I can see
<mwolson> Dabian: ok, i've subscribed to it and will take a look this afternoon
<Dabian> mwolson: OK
<Lutin> siretart: and same for --plugin-libs btw
<mwolson> Dabian: i'm currently trying to get some sort of ubuntu-emacs mailing list going so that Emacs Lisp package bugs that aren't fixed within a certain amount of time can be reported
<Dabian> mwolson: Its a bit of a bedbug, because its not clear to me if one should remove code from xemacs-base-support and create independend packages for each version of emacsen, including xemacs.
<alexises> i have forgate the hotow for uploade tu revue
<Dabian> mwolson: I wouldn't mind helping on that, if I get some mentoring.
<alexises> i have  ide
<alexises> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ScottK> LaserJock: Some.  I've done a few of security uploads.
<Lutin> alexises: 'I have an idea'
<LaserJock> ScottK: what do you think of bug #1706
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 1706 in malone "Malone/Launchpad should be CVE compatible" [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1706
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> LaserJock: I agree with the comment that says to generic to be actionable.  We have some compatibility already...  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.has_cve=on
<LaserJock> ScottK: do you think more could be done within LP?
<LaserJock> or do you feel what we have is enough?
* ScottK isn't sure.  I think we should have some kind of process for making sure that all relevant CVEs get bugs.  Dunno how close we are to that.
<LaserJock> I haven't seen that has_cve field, that's pretty cool
<ScottK> It's linked off of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
<Kmos> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/
<LaserJock> ScottK: like I go there ;-)
<LaserJock> oh nifty, the bug pie chart works
<ScottK> Kmos: Is that all of Ubuntu or just main/restricted?
<Kmos> CVE-2007-2650 	
<Kmos> clamav	(feisty-security/universe)
<Kmos> i think it's all
<Kmos> http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-2650
<blueyed> jdong: about bug 110881 - you should probably unassign yourself.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110881 in ktorrent "[SRU]  Citical bug cherrypicks from SVN" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110881
<Kmos> !cve 2007-1799
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about cve 2007-1799 - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<Kmos> :(
* RainCT back
<Lutin> RainCT: I can't upload the package for now, it's going to FTBFS on all archs from what I can see
<RainCT> Lutin: so what's the problem with it?
<RainCT> LaserJock: thanks (dpkg -i)
<RainCT> is xmms = xine?
<Lutin> RainCT: I think it's somehow related to ffmpeg, I'm waiting for siretart's answer
<Kmos> RainCT: no
<RainCT> Kmos: ah ok, then I had not noticed it's meny entry before :p
<Lutin> good night
<alexises> i cant conenct inrevue i have uploade  package and i would recept my pass
<alexises> i c'ant decrypte my pass  with my gpg hey
<alexises> wath i do ?
<alexises> *what
* RainCT is listening to music with xmms2 :p
<alexises> lol
* ScottK hates it when it builds in pbuilder and FTBFS on the buildd's...
<ScottK> LaserJock: Don't get to excited to fast about python-scipy ...  
<Kmos> ScottK: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/bzr/ubuntu-cve/ (the source code)
<ScottK> OK
<mwolson> Dabian: does the problem you reported still exist if you install this version of jde: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/7707522/jde_2.3.5.1-2_all.deb
<RainCT> uhm.. is there a reason why OO.o Draw has no icon?
<Dabian> mwolson: Dunno ... lemme try.
<Dabian> mwolson: Is it supposed to fix both for emacs21 and emacs-snapshot?
<mwolson> Dabian: i don't know
<mwolson> Dabian: i'm just working through my "checklist"
<mwolson> Dabian: next step, if the newer package still does not work, is to add the exact output of the error message to the original report
<Dabian> Apparently in emacs-snapshot .. I don't even enter jde-mode when I open javafile now.
<RainCT> should I work on a fix for bug #75478 for gutsy (see the 2nd comment from end)?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 75478 in openoffice.org "No shortcut to OpenOffice::Draw" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75478
<Dabian> mwolson: Apparently in emacs-snapshot .. I don't even enter jde-mode when I open javafile now.  I will test with emacs21.
<Dabian> mwolson: Same problem.
<Dabian> mwolson: Apparently the "old" version was somewhat better.
<Dabian> mwolson: There are some errors or rather warnings when I install the package though.
<mwolson> Dabian: the warnings probably aren't important
<Dabian> mwolson: OK
<mwolson> Dabian: try visiting a Java file and typing M-x jde-mode RET
<mwolson> Dabian: that should at least allow you to try to trigger the original bug
<Dabian> mwolson: Well, jde-mode isn't bound to function.  I get "No match"
<RainCT> Lutin: (what's about post a comment on the xmms2 bug telling what that info you await is?)
<mwolson> Dabian: that's very strange ... have you restarted Emacs since installing the new package
<Dabian> mwolson: Yes ... I guess that was bad?
<mwolson> Dabian: no, that was good
<Dabian> mwolson: OK :)
<RainCT> ah it wasn't you
<Dabian> mwolson: Trying reinstall.
<RainCT> ah yes it was loo
<RainCT> loo = lol
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-03
<RainCT> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging >> General tasks to be done >> File a bug >> Assign the bug to "ubuntu-universe-sponsors"
<RainCT> this is wrong, or?
<Dabian> mwolson: Didn't help.  I'll try to install the stuck version.
<RainCT> well, good night
<Dabian> mwolson: Btw.  The JDE package has been broken for Debian as long as I can remember.
<Dabian> mwolson: If I load the version stock with Feisty, I get back my "jde" menu, but the persists of course, unless I add the workaround I mention in the bugreport.
<Dabian> mwolson: s/the persists/the problem persists/
<mwolson> Dabian: can you add the exact text of the error message to bug #115527?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115527 in jde "Compile from menu fails if you don't use xemacs" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115527
<asac> bashelier: pong
<asac> bashelier: pong (not long :))
<bashelier> ^^
<bashelier> asac: hey :)
<Dabian> Ping Pong?
<Dabian> ^_^
<bashelier> asac: hold on a sec, it's for a merge
<bashelier> here it is http://dad.dunnewind.net/xulrunner
<asac> bashelier: what do you want?
<asac> xulrunner should be synched now
<bashelier> asac: just to ask you if I could merge xulrunner from debian unstable :)
<asac> bashelier: test if unmodified latest xulrunner builds
<asac> if it does, please file a sync request
<bashelier> asac: I will ;)
<asac> and tell me bug id so I can backup this claim
* Dabian claims the backup.
<asac> rofl
<bashelier> asac: ok np, I'll try to do that very soon, thanks :)
<bashelier> Dabian: :D
<asac> bashelier: if you don't come to it then I will probably do on monday :)
<bashelier> asac: ok, I'm going to try to do it tomorrow then :)
<asac> bashelier: cool
<asac> bashelier: just drop the bug id with my nick ... will see
<bashelier> asac: np ;)
<Dabian> mwolson: Bedtime for me ... I'll try to send you a test-mail
<mwolson> Dabian: ok
<Dabian> mwolson: Email sent.
<Dabian> mwolson: Send me a reply when you receive it, so I know the mail reached you and was readable.
<DarkSun88> G'Night
<crimsun> 'night.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> maybe it's just because it's Saturday
<crimsun> that...?
<LaserJock> but I'm starting to get nervous about my app, nobody has responded
<LaserJock> sorry, stereo speaker feel on the floor, had to pick it up before completing my though 
<LaserJock> *fell
<crimsun> LaserJock: three working business days, not three calendar days
<crimsun> we ought to clarify that for MC
<LaserJock> well, I didn't have an expectation
<crimsun> right, so no need to be nervous :)
<LaserJock> I just thought that somebody would've said something
<LaserJock> blah, I'm just nervous about the whole thing I guess
<LaserJock> it's been a while since I've had to do one of these
<crimsun> DktrKranz: please don't forget the Debian component when filing a sync request
<crimsun> I've been filling them in as I've processed u-u-s
<DktrKranz> crimsun, do you refer in bug title?
<crimsun> DktrKranz: yes, in both the Summary and Description
<crimsun> u-u-s merge/sync queue cleared
<DktrKranz> I tought it was sufficient to put it into description, I'll keep in mind for the future. Thanks
<crimsun> DktrKranz: yes, but in the one I just saw, I didn't see it at the top in the Description
<crimsun> though it's possible I overlooked it
<DktrKranz> It was in description but not in title
<DktrKranz> anyway, I will specify it in both
<crimsun> ah, I see
<crimsun> yeah, you're using a separate line for the component
<bashelier> bluekuja: ping
<DktrKranz> yes, I put Ubuntu and Debian component on separate lines
<crimsun> DktrKranz: yep.  Sorry about that.
<DktrKranz> crimsun, np at all :)
<DktrKranz> thanks for ACKing :)
<DktrKranz> bashelier, I think you will find him tomorrow
<DktrKranz> it's quite late here
<DktrKranz> he probably have some sleep :)
<bashelier> DktrKranz: right :) just pinging him, he will pong tomorrow :)
<DktrKranz> if he wakes up
<DktrKranz> and post-drunk process is over :P
<bashelier> XD
<pochu> bashelier: then don't do a contentless ping... otherwise, you'll have a contentless pong ;)
<bashelier> pochu: ok, let's content it :)
<bashelier> bluekuja: Hello, I'm revewing your package on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5156, but I have a question, why is there exactly the same package on mentors, including the 822-date in changelog ? If the package is already on mentors, then just wait for its upload. The package will be sync from debian unstable.
<Plug> Hi all
<bashelier> hey Plug :)
<Plug> dpkg-source is complaining about -XubuntuY in the version field of a package I'm building
<Plug> (as the maintainer address isn't at ubuntu.com)  yet the wiki still seems to suggest packages that aren't in Ubuntu should be numbered -0ubuntu1 etc
<LaserJock> packages that aren't in Debian should be -0ubuntu1
<LaserJock> and should have the maintainer address "fixed"
<bashelier> Plug: in -XubuntuY, X is the debian revision, and Y the ubuntu revision, then if the package isn't in debian yet, the rev version should be -0ubuntuY
<Plug> yep
<Plug> but see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField (very bottom)
<crimsun> ignore the output regarding non-maintainer versioning.
<Plug> It's an error, it currently stops the dpkg-buildpackage process
<Plug> is there a flag for dpkg-buildpackage/debuild to ignore it?
<crimsun> are you referring to the version or the email address of Maintainer?
<crimsun> (two different issues)
<Plug> I'm not sure
<crimsun> dpkg-* won't bail on versioning, generally, unless it's a native/non-native source package issue.
<crimsun> dpkg-* will bail (depending on which version of dpkg-dev) for the Maintainer email.
<Plug> dpkg-dev       1.13.24ubuntu6
<crimsun> basically, if you're modifying a source package, you need to set the Maintainer to an @ubuntu.com to quiet the warning/error.
<Plug> The problem could be my version number
<crimsun> what's the version?
<Plug> 0.6.4+pptp0.6.5-svn2574-0ubuntu1
<Plug> I guess I can't use two -s 
<crimsun> *blink*
<crimsun> what's the source package?
<Plug> it's the pptp plugin for networkmanager, packaged from SVN
<crimsun> network-manager-pptp?
<Plug> yes
<crimsun> ok, so it's a SVN snap of what will become 0.6.5?
<crimsun> that's pretty horrid versioning
<crimsun> I recommend 0.6.5~svn2574-0ubuntu1
<Plug> yep, sorry.
<Plug> I was keeping the base version the same as the version of the network-manager in Ubuntu
<pochu> Shouldn't it be 0.5.4+svn...
<pochu> err, 0.6.4+svn
<pochu> Since it's not 0.6.5 yet
<Plug> I was previously using 0.6.3+cvsXXX-0ubuntuX
<crimsun> pochu: that's covered by ~
<Plug> which worked well
<crimsun> 0.6.5~anything is less than 0.6.5
<pochu> crimsun: I thought ~ was for beta and rc
<Plug> I'm not sure it will become 0.6.5 - it will probably become 0.7.0
<pochu> I know, but I say it because of the meaning :)
<crimsun> Plug: but that's why I asked if it will become 0.6.5
<pochu> That's why I think it's better to use 0.6.4+svn
<Plug> The answer is, I'm not sure
<Plug> the plugin is built to run against NM 0.6.4
<Plug> so my initial feeling would be to keep 0.6.4 in the version number
<crimsun> ok, then use 0.6.4+svn2574-0ubuntu1
<Plug> Cheers, I will.
<StevenK> Perhaps that should be in the Description?
<Plug> StevenK: just a note to say it's a SVN version?
<Plug> So, in the case a package goes through REVU and into universe, does the Maintainer e-mail field now have to be set to the sponsoring Ubuntu member?
<StevenK> Plug: Nope.
<Plug> I must still be doing something wrong then, as I build the source package myself
<pochu> Good night folks!
<crimsun> Plug: aren't you using Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com> ?
<crimsun> the current source package doesn't, but any further modifications must adhere to DebianMaintainerField.
<crimsun> XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Craig Box <craig@dubculture.co.nz>
<crimsun> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<Plug> crimsun: thanks, didn't know that
<effie_jayx> question on a merge. when reading a changelog I came across this .. "Modify Maintainer value to match Debian-Maintainer-Field Spec" where do you verify if this is ok...
<crimsun> effie_jayx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<minghua> I finally figure out why my Debian pbuilder's base .tgz is always slightly larger than Ubuntu's
<crimsun> effie_jayx: i.e., any Ubuntu modifications to a Debian source package must adhere to the above spec.
* minghua can't believe the Packages file is 22M
<effie_jayx> crimsun,  ok... thanks...
<effie_jayx> crimsun,  ok,.. I just checked control and the change is there... 
<crimsun> effie_jayx: you seem confused.  What over?
<effie_jayx> crimsun,  just asking questions ... I am having a look at packages for merge just to learn
<effie_jayx> not doing real work
<Simon80> are there any bluetooth gurus in here? I'm not just looking for support, either, I want to discuss things
<crimsun> effie_jayx: ok.  Your use of ellipses indicated (to me) some confusion, but if that's not the case, that's fine, too. :-)
<effie_jayx> crimsun,  maybe I am a bit confused but I am just having a peek at stuff and that's why I asked
<effie_jayx> and I don't know enough yet to make very intelligent questions yet
<etank> does anyone know if there will be another MOTU school in the near future?
<crimsun> no idea, but we do have another Q&A session in less than two weeks
<etank> crimsun: is that on the wiki?
<etank> is that the June 15th, 13:00 UTC meeting?
<crimsun> etank: I've modified MOTUMenuHeader to reflect it.
<etank> what is the time? will it be here or in #ubuntu-meetings?
<crimsun> 0 UTC and 12 UTC
<crimsun> #ubuntu-classroom
<etank> thanks
<parmindergupta> hi, can someone point me to some documentation regarding ubuntu boot process and the way kernel is compiled, loads modules etc.
<parmindergupta> i am trying to reduce boot time and want to remove modules that are not needed from being loaded
<parmindergupta> thanx i got my answer
<LaserJock> well, that was interesting
<LaserJock> I spent a good hour or two getting my wireless back up
<Burgundavia> inded
<LaserJock> I thought my wireless router got fried in a lightning storm
<LaserJock> I could plug into a ethernet port and it'd work fine
<LaserJock> but I could for the life of me get it to connect to the wireless
<LaserJock> *couldn't
<LaserJock> I was about to make a late night Best Buy run :/
<joejaxx> LaserJock: well atleast it works now :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> it actually worked once I booted into Windows
<joejaxx> that is interesting
<LaserJock> I'd like to think that wasn't what fixed it 
<LaserJock> in fact, I don't see what could have "fixed" it
<LaserJock> maybe it was punishment for removing Network Manager
<joejaxx> :P
<YokoZar> Will configure look into /usr/src/linux-headers-`uname -r`/include ?  It seems to be missing the linux/compiler.h and linux/ipx.h header files that are put there
<geser> if no additional dirs are specified, gcc looks for includes only in /usr/include (configure uses gcc for those checks)
<imbrandon> http://www.ubuntuwire.com search re-released feedback welcome
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: What does it do?
<imbrandon> google custom api search, only searches ubuntu sites, results should be much more relevant
<imbrandon> some sites are weighted etc, i'm still tweaking the configs , thus beta
<crdlb> my adblocker blocks the search results
<imbrandon> imho thats what you get for using an ad blocker, but i'll see what i can do
<crdlb> yay whitelist
<alexises> hello
<alexises> i have a problaime to connecte in  revui
<alexises> i entert my email 
<alexises> and i recovery my pass
<alexises> i can't decrypte my messege
<Fujitsu> alexises: What does it say when you try to decrypt it?
<alexises> i'll past
<alexises> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23857/
<alexises> what i do ?
<Fujitsu> My French is practically non-existent. Can you translate that last line for me?
<bashelier> alexises: this won't help, did you doD[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D something like that ? http://pastebin.ca/532936
<bashelier> oO
<bashelier> s/D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D//
<bashelier> Fujitsu: the last line ? "None
<bashelier> " ? ^^"
<Fujitsu> The one starting 'gpg:'
<alexises> yes it good 
<bashelier> Fujitsu: nothing important, "gpg: encrypted with a 1024 bits key, ID xxx, created on"
<alexises> i have not the list line
<Fujitsu> I thought so.
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<Fujitsu> That None means you have no password set, but I don't think that should ever happen.
<bashelier> alexises: could you past all you got from "gpg -d <<EOT ; echo" to the "error" ?
<Fujitsu> You'll need to talk to a REVU admin, I think.
<alexises> ok
<bashelier> alexises: when you created your gpg key, did you enter a passphrase ?
<alexises> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23858/
<Fujitsu> bashelier: It's decrypting it fine. That 'None' comes from Python on REVU, I'd say.
<bashelier> Fujitsu: perhaps, I couldn't say :)
<alexises> what i do ?
<Fujitsu> alexises: You'll need to talk to a REVU admin.
<alexises> ok
<bashelier> alexises: ping siretart and then ask him
<Fujitsu> That'd do.
<alexises> ok
<jekil> hello
<alexises> hello
<RainCT> Hi
<Lutin> hi RainCT 
<RainCT> Lutin: something new about xmms2?
<Lutin> RainCT: still waitinf for siretart :)
<Lutin> waiting even
<crimsun> what the heck is bug 118471?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118471 in Ubuntu "nice boy" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118471
<crimsun> "nice boy"?
<RainCT> ehh?
<RainCT> he should get a price for choosing that good titles :p
<bashelier> ^^
<RainCT> what means XSBC (XSBC-Original-Maintainer)?
<Fujitsu> Extended, Source control, Binary control, Changes
<geser> RainCT: see also http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s5.7, User-defined fields
<RainCT> did not understand much but thanks :p
* RainCT away for 20 minutes
<geser> RainCT: XSBC-O-M is an user-defined field (X) which apears in .dsc files (S), binary debs (B) and .changes files (C, generated during package building) and the field name is Original-Maintainer
<StevenK> geser: Now that's a good explanation.
<StevenK> Perhaps that should be added to the wiki.
<geser> StevenK: should it go to the FAQ?
<geser> or is there a better place to add it?
<StevenK> What about the wiki page for the DebianMaintainerField?
<geser> as it is part of the spec can it be easily changed?
<StevenK> Hrm, maybe not.
<geser> IMHO we shouldn't point MOTU contribtutors not at this page to explain them what XSBC-O-M is
<Hobbsee> hey all
<bashelier> hey Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<ryanakca> hmm. If there's a Debian dev around, could you please review/sponsor aoeui (dget http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/a/aoeui/aoeui_1.0~alpha5-1.dsc) so that I can have it synced into universe?
<bashelier> ryanakca: only a DD can upload a package on mentors to debian unstable, did you display a RFS ?
<ryanakca> bashelier: yes
<bashelier> ryanakca: let me have a look :)
<ryanakca> bashelier: I don't know if there's an equivalent of -motu for debian... (packaging comments/etc)
<ryanakca> bashelier: thanks
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: there are various DD's around here
<bashelier> aoeui      - Lightweight, unobtrusive, Dvorak-optimized text editor
<Hobbsee> whether they're into uploading things, i couldnt tell you
<bashelier> ryanakca: ok I got the RFS :)
<ryanakca> bashelier: if you want the revu link: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5314
<bashelier> ryanakca: not necessary if it is the same package ;)
<ryanakca> same one except the changelog
<ryanakca> (changed -0ubuntu1 to -1
<ryanakca> ) and control (MOTU address and ML substituted with my address)
<bashelier> ryanakca: ok then, if the packaged is uploaded on mentors AND on revu, you'll have to do a sync request
<bashelier> ryanakca: debian/changelog: rather put "Initial release (Closes: #426964)"
<ryanakca> bashelier: yes, once it's in debian, I'll ask for one (it isn't in Universe yet, someone suggested I have my (new) packages put into Debian, then synced that way both communities profit from it)
<ryanakca> Ok
<bashelier> ryanakca: debian/control: intent "Homepage" with 2 spaces
<ryanakca> done
<RainCT> geser: okay thanks
<bashelier> ryanakca: debian/copyright: missing one copyright ("Copyright 1999-2007 Gentoo Foundation"), use grep -Ri copyright to find them
<bashelier> ryanakca: I'm not sure this is necessary to put the manpage in debian/docs
<ryanakca> ok
<bashelier> W: aoeui: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/share/aoeui/aoeui.txt
<bashelier> W: aoeui: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/share/aoeui/help.txt
<bashelier> W: aoeui: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/share/aoeui/notes.txt
<ryanakca> reuploading. or not
<bashelier> ryanakca: esay to fix, in debian/rules in install target put "find debian -type f -name "*.exe" | xargs chmod 644
<bashelier> ryanakca: esay to fix, in debian/rules in install target put "find debian -type f -name "*.txt" | xargs chmod 644
<bashelier> s/exe/txt/
<bashelier> (I've packaged some mono today...)
<ryanakca> fun :)
<bashelier> ^^
<man-di> ryanakca, bashelier: dh_fixperms should do this automatically
<ryanakca> bashelier: would it be giving those executable errors because those files are in debian/docs ?
<bashelier> man-di: I know, but dh_fixperms -paoeui is executed, so perms should be fixed manually
<ryanakca> bashelier: ok, uploading
<bashelier> ryanakca: ok :)
<bashelier> ryanakca: is it your first upload on mentors ?
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<ryanakca> bashelier: yes
<ryanakca> uploaded
<bashelier> ryanakca: so, you don't have a sponsor yet, perhaps a good idea to find one ;)
<ryanakca> hmm. how would I do so, poke aroud in #debian-devel?
<bashelier> ryanakca: hum your RFS is not that old, just wait a few days and see.
<ryanakca> ok
* ryanakca checks to see when the DebianImportsFreeze is...
<ryanakca> as long as it gets uploaded and sync'd by then, I'm happy :)
<bashelier> ryanakca: you can upload it on revo too, as that you'll be sure it will be inclued in ubuntu ;)
<ryanakca> bashelier: yep :)
<man-di> ryanakca: send me an email with a link to the *.dsc file and I can review and upload it, but probably not today (konqueror@gmx.de)
<bashelier> man-di: are you a DD ? :)
<man-di> bashelier: yes
<bashelier> man-di: do you feel comfortable with kernel module package ?
<man-di> bashelier: no, I would never package this myself. *g*
<bashelier> man-di: ok np :) could you upload this package ? this is a new upstream release + ITA, http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/i/idjc/idjc_0.6.12-1.dsc
<man-di> please send me an email about it
<bashelier> man-di: ok, thanks :)
<bashelier> man-di: sent
<man-di> bashelier: thx
<man-di> bashelier: I will get to it tomorrow, probably
<man-di> just to let you know
<bashelier> man-di: np, thanks :)
<ryanakca> man-di: will do, thanks, shall I just send you the RFS that mentors prints out?
<man-di> bashelier: wasnt there aoeui too?
<bashelier> man-di: in my mail ?
<man-di> yes
<man-di> I mean as package to sponsor
<bashelier> man-di: yes, but I thaught ryanakca had already sent you a mail about this one
<man-di> bashelier: sorry, I exchanged you both
<man-di> everything is right
<bashelier> ^^
<RainCT> persia: Hey
<persia> RainCT: Hello.
<vijay2000> hi all 
<vijay2000> can anybody tell me which step of the packaging will create the package.diff.gz 
<Fujitsu> The dpkg-buildpackage or debuild
<RainCT> persia: two slashes were missing but no } :p
<RainCT> persia: that fix_encoding is in the upstream source, shouldn't it be left there?
<vijay2000> Fujitsu: can you tell me what these words mean 
<vijay2000> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23883/
<persia> RainCT: Are you sure?  My buildlog of the latest patch (http://pastebin.ca/533416) showed a problem on 182 that looked like a missing } to me, which caused an issue for line 220.
<Fujitsu> vijay2000: It means that if you have the upstream tarball named as told there, and have a - in the version in the changelog, when you run debuild or dpkg-buildpackage the .diff.gz will be created.
<RainCT> persia: let me try with clear source
<persia> RainCT: As far as I know, you are the only person actively hacking the tool now (including upstream).  If you think fix_encoding should stay, that's fine.  I just wanted to check, as I wasn't sure it still made sense to try multiple encodings, now that the legacy encodings are deprecated.
<polopolo> hello al
<polopolo> l
<RainCT> persia: ah ok, then I'll remove it
<vijay2000> Fujitsu:Thanks
<polopolo> If I want to upload a program that needs another package, must I included it on the same package or not?
<RainCT> persia: and yes, it build without adding any }
<ScottK> polopolo: If it's something that might be of use in multiple packages, package it as a separate package first.
<polopolo> ok
<polopolo> so no need to intergrade it on the same package?
<RainCT> persia: shall I comment out both `gboolean fix_encoding;' and `fix_encoding = FALSE;', or just remove them?
<ScottK> polopolo: No, but if your package requires it, it has to be in the archive before you can upload your package.
<polopolo> ok, thank you for youe answer
<persia> RainCT: In general, I prefer commenting to removing, although you might consider looking at all of 936-977 to see if you need anything at all there.
<polopolo> BTW, now I use pclinuxos but soon step back to kubuntu, can I get a MOTU mentor ornot?
<ScottK> polopolo: I'm not sure how many people there are that have signed up for dedicated mentoring, but you can always show up here and ask questions.  A dedicated mentor is not required.
<polopolo> ok
<DktrKranz> have you suffered some FTBFS recently?
<vijay2000> Fujitsu: will such version 0.5.9-0ubuntu1 in changelog create a diif.gz
<Fujitsu> vijay2000: Yes.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Yes.
<vijay2000> but its not creating
<ScottK> Any italian speakers here?
<vijay2000> Fujitsu: its creating brasero_0.5.9-0ubuntu1.tar.gz
<DktrKranz> ScottK, do you remember if it is something similar to https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/343020
* ScottK looks
<DktrKranz> ScottK, I'm italian
<Fujitsu> vijay2000: Make sure you have brasero_0.5.9.orig.tar.gz in the parent directory.
<Fujitsu> vijay2000: WHy are you repackaging brasero?
<vijay2000> i was jus tryin out 
<vijay2000> i know its alredy done
<ScottK> DktrKranz: No, mine was a Python package.
<RainCT> persia: okay, uploade
* persia looks
<vijay2000> Fujitsu: i have this brasero_0.5.90.orig.tar.gz in the parent dirctory
<DktrKranz> building it in feisty is ok, gutsy is broken, even with a package successfully build some times ago
<Fujitsu> THat 0 shouldn't be there, vijay2000.
<DktrKranz> I fear it is something related to toolchain or similar
<vijay2000> you told vijay2000: Make sure you have brasero_0.5.9.orig.tar.gz in the parent directory.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I think this one has Italian in it, although someone else thought it was Spanish.  I was wondering if you might have a look at translating it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/klamav/+bug/103202
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 103202 in klamav "[apport]  klammail crashed with SIGSEGV in strlen()" [High,Confirmed]  
<Fujitsu> vijay2000: You said you had 0.5.90 there, not 0.5.9
<DktrKranz> ScottK, I'm going to translate it
<RainCT> off-topic: what's s/old/new? I mean, what language or whatever?
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<geser> can someone please proof-read the XSBC-Original-Maintainer entry in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ?
<vijay2000>  Fujitsu: Thanks
<persia> geser: It glosses fine, but the wording seems a little stilted.  I don't see any spelling issues.
<effie_jayx> geser,  comma aafter the if clause
<effie_jayx> in the first line
<ScottK> geser: I'd suggest adding (since it's MOTU FAQ) for Universe packages, maintainer should be set to ...
<effie_jayx> geser,  also avoid first person .. in we...
<geser> persia: as you might have noted, english is not my native language
<persia> RainCT: It looks great.  I'll put some comments in the bug.  Sending it upstream is next.
<StevenK> geser: German is?
<RainCT> persia:  thanks :)
<persia> geser: Understood.  If you don't mind, I'll rephrase (including other's comments) for your review.
<geser> sure
<DktrKranz> ScottK, done
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<DktrKranz> np
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Heck, that's probably something I can even fix!
<DktrKranz> it seems quite easy
<persia> geser, ScottK: effie_jayx: Does http://pastebin.ca/533470 capture the intent and appropriately include the suggestions?
<effie_jayx> persia,  wow... :D
<effie_jayx> yes
<RainCT> persia: XSBC-Original_0_Maintainer 
<persia> RainCT: Yep.  My finger slipped a couple times typing that :)
<geser> persia: yes
* persia updates the wiki
<bashelier> I got a problem with requestsync, could someone have a look ? http://pastebin.ca/533481
<vijay2000> can someone  re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring for me 
<Hobbsee> means the SMTP server is timing out, so you either need to use one of your own, or do the request manually
<gnomefreak> what repo did the 2.6.20-16 kernel end up in for feisty?
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: -security i expect
<Hobbsee> vijay2000: sure, sec
<vijay2000> Hobbsee: Thanks
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: ty i had edgy security repos :(
<Hobbsee> persia: about that sync documentation and stuff
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: very clever. 
<gnomefreak> ty :)
<Hobbsee> persia: wherever it mentions request sync, you might want to make a note about changing ubuntu-archive to ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<Hobbsee> ie, the script
<Hobbsee> or whoever wrote it
<geser> bashelier: do you know that requestsync assumes you are a MOTU or core-dev?
<bashelier> geser:  changed the script to suscribe u-u-s and don't confirm the bug
<ScottK> geser: I'd say generally rather than often for maintainer being MOTU, but that's my only comment.
<persia> Hobbsee: -ENOCONTEXT?  Recent docs, current docs, or new docs?
<bashelier> s//I've/
<Hobbsee> persia: whatever docs people are using on the wiki for MOTU
<geser> Hobbsee: perhaps we should add an option to requestsync to subscribe u-u-s instead of u-a
<Hobbsee> about using the requestsync script
<persia> ScottK: That's my fault - geser is innocent :)
<Hobbsee> geser: it shouldnt be that hard to sed a script
<vijay2000> can anybody tell me if dput is the only means to upload a package
<Hobbsee> as long as it's documented
<Hobbsee> vijay2000: effectively.  there's also ftp and such
<ScottK> geser: Then my advice is don't listen to persia.
<bashelier> geser: in my /usr/bin/requestsync : report += ''' affects ubuntu/%s subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<ScottK> ;-)
<bashelier> geser: should be ok right ? :)
<Hobbsee> bashelier: yeah, that should be fine
<vijay2000> i dont see the etc/dput.cf in my ubuntu 
<vijay2000> i use dapper 
<geser> bashelier: than forget my question :)
<Hobbsee> vijay2000: probably because it's /etc/dput.cf
<Hobbsee> dput has existed long before dapper.
<bashelier> Hobbsee: I get the folowing errors : http://pastebin.ca/533481
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Sure?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i think so - i used it in dapper development
<Hobbsee> and before
<Hobbsee> bashelier: i answered that before.
<Hobbsee> [00:07]  <Hobbsee> means the SMTP server is timing out, so you either need to use one of your own, or do the request manually
<gnomefreak> Candidate: 0.9.2.20ubuntu1  << dput in dapper
<vijay2000> but in the etc directory there is no dput.cf file
<Hobbsee> weird
<vijay2000> when i type dput its says bash: dput: command not found
<gnomefreak> vijay2000: did you install it
<bashelier> Hobbsee: I didn't see it, thanks
<vijay2000> nope :(
<gnomefreak> vijay2000: start there?
<Hobbsee> that's why...
<Hobbsee> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=dput&version=dapper&arch=all
<Hobbsee> and it does exist
<persia> Hobbsee: I can't find the docs that point to requestsync - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess seems to say the right thing.  Sorry :)
<persia> s/:)/:(/
<Hobbsee> Martin Pitt has written a script to file sync requests which is available in the devscripts package.
<Hobbsee> that's it
* Hobbsee edits
<Hobbsee> done
<geser> Hobbsee: IMHO an option to requestsync would be better as to instruct contributors to patch a script in /usr/bin/ (as the changes get overwritten on the next package upgrade)
* geser adds it to his TODO list
<Hobbsee> geser: point
<Hobbsee> keyring syncing takes a while...
<vijay2000> Hobbsee: can you tell me how to upload packages using ftp
<Hobbsee> no
<gnomefreak> nautilus
<Hobbsee> just use dput, once you install it.
<vijay2000> ok
<Hobbsee> unless you want the painful way
<gnomefreak> dput is very easy to use 
<jussi01> hello all
<Hobbsee> hi jussi01 
<jussi01> persia: you around? got a min?
<Hobbsee> vijay2000: resync done
<jussi01> hi Hobbsee
<persia> jussi01: Sure.
<jussi01> persia: what do i need to ask the genpo dev to fix license wise?
<jrib> I came across bug 112842.  I noticed that there is a patch for eel in debian/patches that fixes the issue and upstream a different approach was taken and has been committed to svn.  What happens now?  Will the package maintainer just notice or should there be another bug?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112842 in eel2 ""Open With Other Application" fast search of listed apps malfunctions" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112842
<persia> jussi01: I've forgotten :)  I'll look again.
<jussi01> persia: thanks
<gnomefreak> jrib: they should notice it. the patch was applied upstream than the patch should fail to apply and they should look and find out. (the longer way) 
<gnomefreak> upstream changelog should also have it noted
<jrib> gnomefreak: k, thanks was just curious what the process would be.  The debian patch is a single line whereas gnome committed a new function :x
<tsmithe> man-di: you around?
<man-di> tsmithe: yes
<tsmithe> man-di: i think the libraries are wired-specific, but i've sent an e-mail off upstream for clarification
<man-di> tsmithe: then they should most probably moved to /usr/lib/wired
<tsmithe> yes; i tried that
<tsmithe> i recall having problems
<tsmithe> i'll look into it again
<man-di> if upstream would do it, it would be best and simplest
<tsmithe> yes
<tsmithe> they've done a couple of things for me before, but they seem a bit quiet atm
<persia> jussi01: http://pastebin.ca/533543
<jussi01> persia: thank you. I will email that list to upstream and hope he/she is helpful... :D
<persia> jussi01: Good luck.  I recommend turning the list into nice descriptive paragraphs for each :).  Given that it's GPL, you should be able to get most of your source information from the FSF site.  Let me know if you have any issues (send me email if I'm not here).
<jussi01> persia: Sure. I will be away for the next few days as Im heading to australia, but ill keep you updated :D
<bashelier> about xulrunner, I had a look to ubuntu debdiff and thought patches were applied in the last debian revision but I was wrong, so my question is, 100_ubuntu_pyginputstream.dpatch and 100_ubuntu_pyiinputstream.dpatch still necessary ? they are not applied upstream
<bashelier> (asac, sorry)
<asac> bashelier: congrats :)
<bashelier> ^^"
<asac> i don't know what you mean?
<asac> what dediff did you look at?
<bashelier> asac: the debdiff between the base version and the ubuntu version, this one: http://paste.stgraber.org/1324
<asac> oh ... bashelier so its my fault?
<bashelier> asac: not at all, my fault, I suppose that then a merge is required, to keep those patches, right ?
<asac> bashelier: anyway ... we upgrade to next major revision anyway
<asac> if debian has no problem to build that with their current toolchain then we probably don't need those patches
<asac> if we need them let me know
<asac> try buildd.debian.org to see if latest xulrunner builds on any architecture
<asac> bashelier: ^^
<bashelier> asac: patchs are not applied in last upstream version so I wondered... ok I'm going to have a look thanks :)
<asac> i am wondering why we needed those patches in the first place
<bashelier> asac: everything seems ok : http://buildd.debian.org/fetch.cgi?&pkg=xulrunner&ver=1.8.1.4-1&arch=amd64&stamp=1180214273&file=log :)
<bashelier> asac: so, let's do a sync request :)
<asac> bashelier: yeah ... lets try and see
<geser> PyGInputStream.cpp:111: error: cannot convert 'int*' to 'Py_ssize_t*' for argument '3' to 'int PyObject_AsReadBuffer(PyObject*, const void**, Py_ssize_t*)'
<geser> that's the build failure for xulrunner on IA64
<geser> one should try if xulrunner builds without this patches on AMD64
<bashelier> asac: here it is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xulrunner/+bug/118500
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118500 in xulrunner "Please sync xulrunner (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Zic> why can I put in debian/rules to build a package which it copile with cmake ?
<bashelier> Zic: why ? how you mean :)
<Zic> why can I put in debian/rules to run cmake, simply :]  (I use cdbs bashelier ^^)
<Zic> compile-sequence is cmake && make && make install
<bashelier> Zic: so, it is "What"
<Zic> oops
<bashelier> ^^
<persia> Zic: Review https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml.  You'll need to add the appropriate clean and build commands to special override sections (See Debhelper custom build rules at the end of Chapter 2).
<alexises> ajmitch: i have  probleme to connecte in revu can do help me
<siretart> Lutin: pong
<alexises> helle siretart you can help me
<Lutin> heya siretart 
<siretart> Lutin: yes, libdts & a52 has been removed from ffmpeg, since they are not yet in main
<siretart> feel free to file inclusion requests
<Lutin> siretart: though, ffmpeg-config still links against them
<alexises> siretart i have  problaime to conencte in revu
<siretart> but for dts, I don't see much point in it, since ffmpeg upstream have developed an own implementation of dts
<alexises> siretar can du help me
<siretart> alexises: perhaps. what probles do you have?
<siretart> Lutin: oh
<Lutin> siretart: which causes/will cause some FTBFS imo
* siretart checks
<Lutin> siretart: same for liba52
<alexises> siretart : i have update my source package in revu and i would connecte 
<alexises> siretart i decrypte my pass with my gpg key 
<siretart> alexises: err, what's your revu login? (that's an email addr)
<alexises> alexisis-pristontale@hotmail.com
<alexises> but gpg woulden't decrypt
<Lutin> quel truc de brute xulrunner...ca met plus de temps a builder que le kernel
<Lutin> err.
<siretart> there is no such user 'alexisis-pristontale@hotmail.com' in revu
<alexises> a ok
<alexises> i don't understand i have enter my gpg key in lunchpad i have subscryte in the group 
<Lutin> asac , geser : xulrunner fails to build in an up-to-date pbuilder with the error message that geser previously pinted out
<Lutin> pointed*
<siretart> alexises: what package did you upload? and what email did you use in the changelog?
<alexises> i uploade landes eternelles
<alexises> i'll veryfy my email in my chengelog
<RainCT> persia: Feature Request or Normal, on Gnome?
<alexises> my chengelog is good
<alexises> alexisis-pristontale@hotmail.com
<alexises>  -- Lameire Alexis <alexisis-pristontale@hotmail.com>  Sat,  2 Jun 2007 00:57:18 +0200
<persia> RainCT: Feature Request.
<siretart> alexises: and you're sure your upload was accepted?
<siretart> what did you upload?
<alexises> heee no 
<siretart> gnarf
<siretart> what did you upload?
<alexises> i reuploade
<persia> RainCT: Last time it took about 2 weeks for adoption, so you should probably expect to be able to close your bug around the end of the month.
<siretart> alexises: what package?
<bashelier> Lutin: should I update the bug to make a merge request ? (keeping ubuntu patches)
<alexises> siretart landes-eternelles
<Lutin> bashelier: looks like you should, indeed
<RainCT> persia: Sorry, either the product desktop-file-utils     does not exist or you aren't authorized to enter a bug into it. :S
<siretart> no, that one has been accepted
<alexises> ok
<alexises> it'is a jock at revo
<alexises> hin
<persia> RainCT: It looks like upstream moved.  I'll hunt, and let you know.
<RainCT> persia: ok thanks
<asac> Lutin: you have the exact error at hand and can paste somewhere please?
<alexises> siretart : you can help me ?
<siretart> alexises: I'm still looking at it
<Lutin> asac: sigh, I juste closed the terminal. I think you can find it on launchpad though
<siretart> your upload is there
<asac> Lutin: if you have it, let me know ... what architecture? i386?
<Lutin> asac: amd64
<alexises> siretart it is nort normal my update is good but i d'on conecte
<asac> Lutin: ah ... ok probably the gcc bug fix is not in upstream anymore
<asac> because debian has new gcc
<RainCT> persia: it seems like it has to be reported on the freedesktop list?
<asac> Lutin: bullshit :) ... i wait for the error ;)
<Lutin> asac: I thing it's this one: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/7154271/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-ia64.xulrunner_1.8.0.10-3ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz . I'm currently rebuilding to confirm whether it's that one or not
<Lutin> think even
<asac> Lutin: you get the same error?
<asac> what was on ia64
<asac> other archs build well back then
<Lutin> asac: yes, same error I guess
<asac> strange 
<asac> xulrunner_1.8.0.10-3 built well on amd64
<Lutin> asac: I'm building without the ubuntu patches
<Lutin> as the aim is to know if we still need it or not
<asac> Lutin: without? 1.8.1.4 ?
<asac> or what version are you trying
<Lutin> asac: the current debian one
<asac> Lutin: i don't support building without ubuntu patches :)
<persia> RainCT: Sorry.  https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=desktop-file-utils is what you want.
<asac> Lutin: ah ... but you have debian patches?
<asac> please ensure that its latest 1.8.1.4 
<Lutin> asac: yes, it is
<asac> k
<Lutin> xulrunner 1.8.1.4-1
<asac> can you resurrect the python patches?
<siretart> alexises: okay, please try again to recover your password
<asac> from 1.8.0.10-2
<asac> you should be ablet to get that package in feisty
<asac> e.g. the sources
<alexises> ok
<asac> Lutin: then pick the python patches (io think 100_*)
<Lutin> yep
<asac> and if they don't apply cleanly, adapt them :)
<asac> otherwise add, test, upload
<asac> cool
<alexises> siretart : ok it is good thenks
<afflux> I'm currently working on an SRU / Security fix for wordpress in dapper/edgy. We're currently using a fairly outdated version in dapper (2.0.2-2) and edgy (2.0.4-2), in debian stable there is 2.0.10-2. The debian version has about 14 security vulns fixed. keescook told me to prepare a sru. My questions are now: do I have to make changes to the source, do I have to add a changelog entry and if so, do I have to explain all these security fixes?
<persia> afflux: You will need to make changes to the source, to pull only the security fixes (>90% if I remember correctly).
<persia> afflux: Further, you will need a changelog entry explaining the changes and the security fixes.
<afflux> persia: uh. This would be quite complicated since we are six/eight upstream versions behind
<asac> Lutin: i don't get it
<asac> Lutin: why does it build on debian?
<persia> afflux: Actually, nevermind - I've misread.  For a SRU (as opposed to a security upload), you only need changelog to indicate that you are uploading to the previous version (if it builds correctly - or SUR changes if it doesn't).
<asac> they have a more recent gcc afaik atm
<persia> s/SUR/SRU/
<asac> Lutin: anyway, apply those patches and you should be lucky
<Lutin> asac: dunno. maybe some difference between python2.4 and 2.5 ?
<afflux> persia: okay. Will try that.
<asac> Lutin: yes right
<afflux> (gaah, I need a dapper pbuilder O.o)
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee hasnt run a dapper pbuilder in a good 2 releases...
<Lutin> siretart: do you confirm the ffmpeg-config thing ?
<RainCT> persia: what goes on alias and url?
<asac> Lutin: can you take care that those patches go to debian?
<asac> Lutin: e.g. after you adapted them for 1.8.1.x
<Lutin> asac: not quite I'll have  the time to do so, I'm on exams this week and will leave next sunday for 6 weeks
<Lutin> not quite sure*
<persia> RainCT: I'm not sure about that field.  You might be able to put the Launchpad bug there (I don't really know bugzilla).
<asac> k ... i will take care ... somehow ;)
<Lutin> asac: thanks
<asac> geser: are those patches written by you?
<asac> geser: e.g for the credits when i submit to debian
<asac> geser: or do you want to push to debian directly?
<Lutin> asac: \sh wrote them iirc
<asac> Lutin: ok ... will wait for geser 
<RainCT> persia: on LP, what project should I select on "also affects upstream"?
<asac> Lutin: looks a bit scary that a PRUint32 pointer is casted to a (long *)
<Lutin> asac: I admit that doesn"t mean much to me :)
<persia> RainCT: That's a LP feature I've never gotten to work right :(  Does anyone know how to use "also affected upstream"?
<Lutin> asac: but if long is 64 bits, yes, it is :)
<siretart> Lutin: I've noticed other breakage in ffmpeg, which I'm looking at right now
<siretart> Lutin: do you have an example buildlog showing the breakage?
<geser> asac: no, I don't have written them
<asac> Lutin: yeah is a hack that is not right
<asac> geser: ok thanks
<asac> i will wait for \sh
<Lutin> siretart: I don't have a precise error, but it's something like an ld error complaining not to find -ldts
<geser> asac: those patches are still needed, I test-build xulrunner 1.8.1.4-1 in a gutsy pbuilder on AMD64
<siretart> btw, svn sucks. hard.
<asac> geser: they are still needed, but they are wrong/scary
<asac> read above
<persia> bashelier: Sorry.  One more revision of adonthell-data please :)
<bashelier> persia: ok, np ;)
<geser> asac: they should probably adapted to also work on IA64 as it FTBFS there for the same reason
<asac> geser: yes ... first they need to be fixed :)
<asac> geser: i try a build ;)
<geser> bashelier: I've rejected your sync request for xulrunner as it FTBFS on AMD64 in a gutsy pbuilder
<bluekuja> bashelier, pong
<RainCT> persia: is it ok if I add desktop-file-utils here?https://launchpad.net/projects/+new
<bashelier> bluekuja: I had a question about the package you have put on REVU, libtorrent-rasterbar
<RainCT> persia: I think that's what it needs to have a project to select when adding a upstream bug
<bluekuja> bashelier, that is just a test..I've found some errors in it in debian mentors 
<bashelier> geser: A merge request is perhas necessary, to keep the amd64 specific patches
<bluekuja> bashelier, the soname isnt right, also we have already got a libtorrent.so.* in the lib database
<persia> RainCT: I'm really not the right person to ask.  If LP allows you to specify a foreign bugtracker and foreign VCS, than adding a project is the right thing.  If not, then adding a project will only be confusing.
<bluekuja> bashelier, it should be libtorrent-rasterbar.so.*
<bashelier> bluekuja: a test ? if you have revied the package on mentors, why not to tell it to original packager ?
<persia> bashelier: Just retitle and reopen the sync request to change it to a merge.
<bluekuja> bashelier, we have worked on it for weeks in motu-torrent
<bluekuja> bashelier, and I have talked with the packager too ;)
<bluekuja> bashelier, if you are interested in torrents apps...and discussions, please #ubuntu-motu-torrent
<bashelier> bluekuja: ok, so here is my review of the package put on revu : http://pastebin.ca/533791, 1) give it to ITP owner 2) add a comment to your upload on REVU to say it is useless and ask to archive it 3) find a sponsor on mentors to upload the package in debian and ask for sync.
<bashelier> persia: ok, hold on a sec :)
<bluekuja> bashelier, I have told you that mentors package is not right
<bashelier> bluekuja: I told you to correct it on mentors then
<bluekuja> bashelier, I'm not the packager on mentors
<bashelier> 18:04 < bluekuja> bashelier, we have worked on it for weeks in motu-torrent
<bashelier> 18:05 < bluekuja> bashelier, and I have talked with the packager too ;)
<bluekuja> bashelier, and anyway it's already on my TODO list
<bashelier> bluekuja: then give your review and mine to the orig packager
<bluekuja> bashelier, we need to find a correct name for the lib first
<alexises> can i have some help to use revu
<bluekuja> same for gentoo and fedora
<bashelier> bluekuja: ok, so why did you put it on revu exactly ?
<bashelier> alexises: what for ? :)
<Lutin> siretart: here is the error message I get: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ldts , when trying to buid xmms2 (which links against avcodec)
<bluekuja> bashelier, to let a developer that works with motu-torrent to have a first check
<bluekuja> of the possible cause
<alexises> i have uploade my package but i don't find it
<bashelier> bluekuja: was it really necessary to put it on REVU for that ?
<bluekuja> bashelier, dont worry about it, gonna comment it out
<bashelier> alexises: how did you upload it ?
<bashelier> bluekuja: ok thanks :) ask to archive please
<alexises> bashelier landes-etenelle is the name of the package
<RainCT> persia: it allows you to give url, sf.net url, freshmeat url, what bug tracker and say if it's using Launchpad officially
<bluekuja> bashelier, yea, we will try to package it in the near future ( we need to talk with gentoo and fedora developers first)
<bluekuja> it's something quite long
<RainCT> persia: done
<bashelier> bluekuja: try to talk to original packaged on mentors too, thanks.
<bluekuja> bashelier, he joined the channel early today, but I was away
<persia> RainCT: Thanks for the investigation and documentation.  That's a great help.
<bluekuja> bashelier, thanks for pointing it out
<bashelier> bluekuja: np ;)
<bashelier> persia: ping
<RainCT> persia: no problem ;)
<bashelier> 18:12 < alexises> bashelier landes-etenelle is the name of the package
<bashelier> alexises: I've asked you how did you upload it ;) did you use dput ?
<alexises> yes
<alexises> i have uploade it but i don't find it in the linst
<bashelier> alexises: do you still have the dput result open ?
<alexises> heeee no
<persia> bashelier: pong
<alexises> pin pong :)
<bashelier> persia: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adonthell-data/+bug/118508 :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118508 in adonthell-data "Please merge adonthell-data 0.3.4.cvs.20050903 from Debian Unstable (main)" [Wishlist,In progress]  
<bashelier> (should be okay this time)
<pochu> alexises: are you on ~ubuntu-univerve-contributors?
<alexises> yes
<persia> bashelier: Looks a lot better.  Thanks.
<pochu> For more than one day?
<pochu> It takes one day to resync the keyring.
<pochu> (You can ask an admin to resync it though)
<bashelier> persia: my pleasure :)
<pochu> alexises: ^
<siretart> Lutin: fix uploaded
<siretart> Lutin: thanks for pointing me to it
<Lutin> siretart: np. thank _you_ :)
<alexises> wath i do else ? i think i have not understand revu
<afflux> pochu: did you review the wesnoth merge? It is commented with "Should be syncable with next debian release". Did you mean 1.2.4-1?
<nixternal> MOTU: Bug 118517 ready for merge please.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118517 in plucker "[Gutsy Merge]  Please merge plucker (1.8-21ubuntu1) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118517
<nixternal> I have to admit, the DaD functionality is quite nice
<bashelier> nixternal: ^^
<pochu> afflux: Yes. I mailed the Debian maintainer, and he will include the ubuntu changes into the Debian package with the next upload.
<pochu> So for 1.2.4-1, it should be syncable :)
<afflux> pochu: Okay. So would you / can I file a syncrequest in LP?
<Lutin> pochu: what package ?
<pochu> afflux: btw, it doesn't worth a merge now, since the Debian changes are "* New upstream release" x3
<pochu> afflux: wesnoth 1.2.4 isn't out, afaik.
<pochu> So no, we can't.
<afflux> pochu: that's the one listed on DaD
<pochu> Then we have to wait for 1.2.5 :)
<pochu> Sorry for the confusion ;)
<afflux> okay. that's what I wanted to hear ;)
<afflux> I'll add make the comment on DaD clearer.
<afflux> -add
<pochu> And I'll file a sync request as soon as 1.2.5-1 is packaged.
<afflux> good, thanks ;)
<pochu> So does any MOTU have a moment to review bug 118030? :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118030 in listen "Please merge Listen 0.5-3 from Debian Unstable (main)" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118030
<alexises> siretart i have agaim a problaime i don't find my package in the liste
<siretart> alexises: what did you upload?
<alexises> siretart my package is landes eternelles
<alexises> siretart landes-eternelles
<siretart> alexises: which is indeed strange, because your package can be seen here: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/landes-eternelles-0706031240/
<siretart> it indeed doesn't show up in the main page.. hmmm
<siretart> it seems there is some problem with processing it
<alexises> 2 problaime for me
<siretart> alexises: http://paste.debian.net/29548
<siretart> wtf?
<alexises> siretart i have not luck
<siretart> alexises: please stop uploading broken changes files ;)
<siretart> Changed-By: 6621A2C8
<siretart> that's what I've found in your .changes file, how did you manage to do that?
<siretart> normally, there's your email adress which you used in debian/changelog
<alexises> yes
<bashelier> alexises: please paste a gpg --list-keys
<alexises> ok
<siretart> alexises: first look at your package, please fix your package description. the package description shouldn't contain non-ascii characters since they are supposed to be in english
<siretart> bashelier: his key is okay, his changesfile is broken
<bashelier> siretart: ok :)
<siretart> which confuses my processing script to accept the package, but not register them properly with revu
<siretart> which is a bug
<bashelier> alexises: can you paste yout debian/control please ?
<bashelier> siretart: I think his description is in french
<siretart> which is not accepted
<alexises> gpg list
<alexises> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23917/
<siretart> please use english
<bashelier> alexises: ok for the key, can we have a look to your debian/control please ?
<alexises> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23919/
<bashelier> here is the problem :)
<siretart> alexises: btw, upstream calls the software 'Eternal Lands'. May I suggest that you name the package eternallands, in order to not confuse non-french people?
<bashelier> alexises: you can't use accents (there are no in english), please write the description in english ;)
<siretart> bashelier: I don't think that's the problem for the fucked changes file
<alexises> for the description i attenpt tu have the description for the admin
<alexises> i can't use eternelland
<alexises> http://www.eternal-lands.com/
<alexises> http://www.landes-eternelles.com/
<siretart> sorry, my frensh is very rusty, I don't understand the french page
<RainCT> alexises: EL is packaged?
<alexises> no
<siretart> alexises: why can't you use eternellands?
<alexises> but if le went packaged
<alexises> *eternelland
<alexises> what ido ?
<alexises> *what i do ?
<siretart> bashelier: perhaps you can help alexises in french
<bashelier> siretart: ok :)
<bashelier> alexises: une petite seconde j'arrive
<alexises> iit is a good idee my english is not good
<alexises> bashelier i go in te ubuntu-fr-classroom :)
<bashelier> alexises: ok
<afflux> okay, security update / sru is prepared... anyone can go on with bug 111620?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111620 in wordpress "Remote Exploits: multiple vulnerabilities" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111620
<ScottK> afflux: All your debdiff's have in them is debian/changelog entries.
<afflux> ScottK: someone told me, that thats all I have to do, if the debian version builds fine.
<ScottK> afflux: For *-updates, we don't do new versions, we patch the existing ones.
<ScottK> afflux: What you need to do is prepare a diff from the current Ubuntu package, not from the Debian package.
<afflux> ScottK: patching would be quite complicated, since we have about 25 CVEs in dapper and some less in edgy.
<afflux> (that would be fixed with 2.0.10-something)
<ScottK> Hmmm
<ScottK> Not sure what the right thing to do here is.
<afflux> I'm not familiar with SRU doing, but I was told here to prepare one for 2.0.10 by checking wether it builds and adding a changelog entry and then coming back.
<ryanakca> how much does already being a debian maintainer help in becoming a MOTU?
<ScottK> ryanakca: You still have to demonstrate your ability to get the work done in Ubuntu, but you probably already know 98% of what you need to know, so it'll be quicker.
<ryanakca> ScottK: kk, thanks
<geser> ryanakca: you should show that you are familiar with the Ubuntu processes/specifics
<ryanakca> ok
<stgraber> Hi there, I've received a mail from a Debian packager wanting to put one of mine into Debian, what's the easiest way to do from that point, simply let him package it (I'm also the upstream on this package) and then ask for sync from Debian ?
<geser> yes
<ScottK> Yes.  He should be able to use your Ubuntu package with only very minor modification.
<ScottK> If you care, you might ask him to keep the Ubuntu debian/changelog history in his package.  Up to you.
<stgraber> geser, ScottK: Ok, that's what I tought, thank you
<thedeviantone> Can anyone assist me with compiling a kernel for SCSI controller support?
<ScottK> thedeviantone: #ubuntu or #kubuntu for support.
* nixternal points to bug 118517 quietly, and then walks away
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118517 in plucker "[Gutsy Merge]  Please merge plucker (1.8-21ubuntu1) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118517
<thedeviantone> sorry, thnx
<nixternal> I kind of figured that the kernel would already have scsi controller support..unless it is for a specific card
* ScottK too.
* nixternal didn't check debdiff for goofy po oops
<nixternal> hrmm...msgid junk getting into the debdiffs all of the time..that is getting annoying
<nixternal> and there haven't been any changes
<ScottK> nixternal: What are all the po file changes in your debdiff?
<ScottK> Ah.. 
<ScottK> Nevermind.
<nixternal> exactly..that is the silly debdiff garbage again
<nixternal> is there some locales stuff I should have installed to stop this already?
<ScottK> Looks that way at first glance to me.
* ScottK doesn't know.
* nixternal hates packaging at times like this ;p
<RainCT> how can I see on what repo a package is on debian?
<geser> packages.debian.org, PTS
<joejaxx> you mean repository component?
<RainCT> joejaxx: if it's main or whatever
<joejaxx> apt-cache show packagename | grep Filename: | cut -f 2 -d \/
<geser> but only if you have deb lines for Debian in your sources.list
<joejaxx> ah yes true
<siretart> I'm sorry to tell that I just reset all 'archived' information in revu
<siretart> this was accident while writing a script to auto archive all uploads later than 3 months.
<siretart> the good news is that I have now a working script. the bad new is that all information is reset now. sorry about that
<RainCT> geser, joejaxx: thx
<joejaxx> RainCT: you are most welcome
* nixternal notes that ScottK can look at bug 118517 now - fixed debdiff
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118517 in plucker "[Gutsy Merge]  Please merge plucker (1.8-21ubuntu1) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118517
<RainCT> http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html  do green things need merge?
<geser> RainCT: all packages need merging from there
<RainCT> gso what does the color mean?
<RainCT> s/gso/geser: so
<RainCT> s/does/do
<nixternal> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5357  <- anyone feel like revu'ing
<geser> it's a coding for the priority of the package (based on the Priority field from debian/control)
<geser> as the packages in universe are priority extra or optional, it's green for the most packages
<nixternal> jeesh
<nixternal> stop with the splits already
<nixternal> hurry up you motus, get back here and revu for me :)
<ScottK> nixternal: (Closes: # ...  should be (LP: # for Ubuntu
<nixternal> k
* nixternal fixes that quickly
<ScottK> nixternal: Why did you pick that section?
<nixternal> ScottK: has that been agreed upon/made into a standard? I think your Debian ways are influencing that ;p
<nixternal> ScottK: because the utility it is a plugin for utilizes the same..but if there is better let me know
<ScottK> Yes it has.  MDZ announced last week that that will actually close bugs now
<nixternal> rock on!
<ScottK> nixternal: Makes sense.
<nixternal> omg that is awesome!
* ScottK is good.
<nixternal> hehe
* nixternal fixes the changelog
<ScottK> nixternal: You can fix the date in debian/copyright too (03 June vice  3 June)
<ScottK> What was your concern about debian/copyright?
<nixternal> just wanted to make sure I did it correctly to where it will not be an issue
<ScottK> nixternal: Point 2 of the Monkey's Audio Source Code License Agreement does not sound terribly GPL compatible to me.
<ScottK> IANAL, of course
<nixternal> the point that says you have to submit changes to them?
<nixternal> that is what I was questioning
<nixternal> point 3 is what I was thinking of
<Monk-e> Did someone say my name?
<ScottK> No, it's the one that says you can use it with GPL, but viral stuff doesn't apply
<nixternal> hahaha
<ScottK> Monk-e: Not on purpose.
<Monk-e> Oh, you didn't say my name I see. Monkey
<ScottK> nixternal: I think what you need to do for point 2 is make sure you aren't linking against that in a way that would make that clause relevant.
<ScottK> Point 3 I don't think is a problem, but I'm not sure at all.
<nixternal> well I don't believe it is linking anywhere other than what it is being used for
* ScottK hasn't looked, so can't say.
<nixternal> actually...
<nixternal> well it isn't subjected to external licensing requirements, the libmonkey stuff has its license, the k3b plugin stuff has gpl, of which point 2 says it can be included in
<ScottK> Why do you have simple patchsys in rules?
<nixternal> but then again, I am not a lawyer and that mumbo jumbo makes no sense at all to me
<RainCT> if there is a package that on the last version has a @ubuntu (person) as maintaner can I still merge it?
<nixternal> because I copied the rules file....hahaha good catch
<nixternal> that is my generic rules file, and I just noticed the patch stuff ;)
<ScottK> nixternal: Should libmonkeyaudio perhaps be a separate lib package?
<ScottK> RainCT: It's considered polite to ask.
<nixternal> ScottK: I was thinking the same unfortunately
<ScottK> nixternal: If you do that, then all these pesky license questions might go away.
<ScottK> Is libmonkeyaudio in Debian at all?
<nixternal> nope
<nixternal> something tells me it would be in non-free if were though
* ScottK isn't sure, but this may have to go in multiverse.
* ScottK would suggest asking someone more experienced.
<ScottK> nixternal: That's all I got.
* ScottK didn't build it though.
<ScottK> Gotta run.
<RainCT> file config.log is crap, or?
<hippu> hello, i made a simple dependency patch to foomatic-gui, could someone check it out at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/foomatic-gui/+bug/110833
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110833 in foomatic-gui "Kubuntu Feisty: foomatic-gui crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Low,In progress]  
<RainCT> hippu: why do you want the backup file control~ to be added?
<hippu> oh, i didnt notice that
<RainCT> geser: packages.debian.org, PTS  what do you mean "PTS"?
<geser> Package Tracking System, http://packages.qa.debian.org/
<RainCT> geser: can't find it :S where does it say that?
<geser> for which package do you need the info?
<RainCT> well isn't important anymore
<RainCT> just to know it for further ones
<geser> look at Priority & Section, contrib/* is in contrib, non-free/* is non-free and the rest is main
<RainCT> geser: thanks :)
<geser> you can also look where in pool/ the files (e.g. the source files) are
<RainCT> ok
<RainCT> can somebody help me with bug 118545? :p
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118545 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  Incollector" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118545
<RainCT> (or is packaging new stuff too difficult for someone new?)
<geser> it depends on the software you want to package
<Qball> Hi, I need some help setting up a repository with daily build of gmpc/libmpd? 
<joejaxx> Qball: you might want to look at falcon
<Seveas> joejaxx, only if he still runs dapper or wants to wait a bit :)
<Qball> hi Seveas 
<Seveas> hi
<Seveas> and bye, bedtime
<joejaxx> Seveas: ah ok
<Qball> it's 22:18
<Seveas> Qball, yeah -- busy weekend and have to get up at 7 tomorrow
<thedonvaughn> Hey, guys i have a few questions.  I tried uploading a new package to REVU, however while transfereing I accidently stopped it half way and now I have "stale" files on revu and i can't completely upload the package.   Secondly, when I try to login to revu using my email address and "recover password", i can't decrypt it.  I don't think I have Elgamal secondary key
<thedonvaughn> what exactly is a  elgamal secondary key?
<Qball> well, goodnight then.
<Seveas> Qball, poke me tomorrow evening :)
<thedonvaughn> n/m I have a elgamal key, however I still can not decrypt my password for REVU.
<Qball> Seveas: you can help me?
<Qball> Seveas: great, I will.
<nixternal> thedonvaughn: are you using username@email.com for username on revu?
<thedonvaughn> yes
<thedonvaughn> and i see my package is  there
<nixternal> gpg -d <<EOT ; echo
<nixternal> copy and paste the ---foo--- all the way down
<nixternal> press enter, and then type EOT and press enter
<thedonvaughn> yup, let me do it again and i'll show you the error
<nixternal> k
<thedonvaughn> gpg: encrypted with ELG-E key, ID 459B7FF6 - gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> wonder why it isn't finding your secret key
<thedonvaughn> yah it's weird... it worked when signing my package, and on launchpad etc.
<thedonvaughn> it allows me to upload to REVU, i just can't recovery my pass :)
<thedonvaughn> and the revu wiki says to make sure you have an elg-e key for encryption, but i do have one.
<nixternal> is there another error notice that says 
<nixternal> gpg: public key decryption failed: bad passphrase
<thedonvaughn> nope
<thedonvaughn> i was looking for that too
<nixternal> gpg --list-secret-keys
<nixternal> do you see your secret key in there?
<thedonvaughn> yes
<nixternal> are you using any funky key services? forget what the gnome keyring manager thing is called
<thedonvaughn> but, because i had a comment in my key originally, debuild was having problems finding the key automatically.  So I added another email to it, which is really the same email as before but just without the comment.  I wonder if it's still having issues with my comment.  Since it uses "Name Last <username@email.com" format.
<thedonvaughn> nixternal, i did use seahorse to create my key...
<nixternal> and this is the same key that you have on LP that has been uploaded to revu correct?
<thedonvaughn> correct
<thedonvaughn> i wonder if i could email it to myself and let my client decrypt it :)
<nixternal> don't know, never tried that...but you could copy it to a file called blah and try and decrypt blah
<thedonvaughn> yah i get the same error when doing it as a file..
<nixternal> maybe when ajmitch comes around he might know..I believe he does the key stuff for revu..but I am not 100% positive
<thedonvaughn> ok thanks
<H4wk_cz> hello, could anybody told me how to get a list of all dependencies of a program? It's my own program and i'd like to package it
<Qball> eeuh you wrote a configure.ac I assume?
<H4wk_cz> it's a gnome python applet
<H4wk_cz> well, i have found some python dependency finder so ill give him a chance
<luisbg> hey LaserJock =)
<LaserJock> hi luisbg 
<luisbg> how is all?
<LaserJock> oh, pretty good
<LaserJock> it's a pretty quiet Sunday afternoon here
<LaserJock> hmm, has anybody got thoughts on vmware vs. VirtualBox?
<superm1> LaserJock, I like virtualbox better for linux vm's
<LaserJock> is it faster for you?
<superm1> for me yes
<superm1> also their guest software has mouse integration for linux
<superm1> whereas last time i looked at the vmware offering only the windows guest did that
<LaserJock> I see
<superm1> but for windows vms, virtual box doesnt support booting real partitions
<superm1> which is something nice to have rather than manage two windows installs
<LaserJock> I've never done a Windows vm
<LaserJock> I don't have any windows discs
<superm1> i do it on my work thinkpad for the one tool we have that doesnt work on linux
<LaserJock> hmm, that would be cool
<LaserJock> there is one app in Windows that my wife likes
<LaserJock> it's an old crusty Win95 app
<LaserJock> but I can't get it to work in Wine
<superm1> you can bust out the eye candy too then and throw the vm on a side of a beryl cube 
<superm1> she'll be impressed
<LaserJock> all I need are some Windows discs :/
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if we have some Win98 discs at work
<crimsun> nixternal has all the Windows OS installs, just ping him.
<LaserJock> crimsun: I don't want Vista ;-)
<LaserJock> hmm, I should root around in the box I had my wife's old computer stuff in
<LaserJock> there might be 95 or 98 discs in there
<RainCT> good night
<LaserJock> all my XP discs are restore discs that only work with HP computers
<LaserJock> caused a bit of a panic when I replaced the motherboard
<LaserJock> I had to call MS and get a new Key
<LaserJock> utterly stupid
<luisbg> I haven't tried virtual box yet
<luisbg> but the fact that they have an open source edition is biggie 
<superm1> LaserJock, vmware server also has this kinda neat feature that you can connect to the vms remotely and control devices attached and stuff from vmware console
<luisbg> if it's close to vmware, I would prefer VB
<crimsun> ok.  Uppers?  Check.  Punching bag?  Check.  Ubuntu Forums?  Here we go...
<luisbg> crimsun, LOL
<nixternal> bah, walk away for a bit and come back to os harrasment!
<PriceChild> eek, I just uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com instead of revu :S
<LaserJock> crimsun: why torture yourself? :-)
<LaserJock> PriceChild: just getting used to being a MOTU eh? ;-0
<PriceChild> maybe one day :)
<PriceChild> Hey, I had one advocation on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5358 but had to get upstream to fix some copyright issues... all is good now and I'm looking for advocates/things wrong with it again :)
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-26
<tbielawa> anyone seen LaserJock recently?
<crimsun> he's taking a leave of absence of sorts.
<crimsun> (so, not in the few days, no)
<tbielawa> One of his usual 'i gotta get out' ones, or something else?
<tbielawa> (;))
<bddebian> Heya gang
<tbielawa> hey!
<bddebian> Hello tbielawa
<crimsun> bddebian!
<tbielawa> how goes?
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<bddebian> tbielawa: OK thanks, yourself?
<tbielawa> bddebian: super excited. I think i tamed the beast that was packaging 'bibus'
<bddebian> Nice, congratulations :)
<tbielawa> silly upstream folks and their debianizations...
<tbielawa> I took ScottKs advice and ended up recreating the orig.tar.gz without debian/
<bddebian> That's usually the wisest
<artfwo> Hi! May I ask how long does it normally take a REVU upload to appear on the website? (I've just uploaded two sourcepackages, one of them has appeared, and the other did not)
<persia_> artfwo: It usually takes about 10 minutes, but it may be that it didn't get accepted, and REVU is silent on rejections.
<artfwo> ah, and if it got rejected, how do I know about that? ;)
<persia_> artfwo: You don't :)  More specifically, you can ask a REVU admin, and if you get one who is better about having ssh keys handy than I, they can look.
<persia_> More specifically, which package is missing?
<persia_> artfwo: Also, for supercollider, you'll likely get a better response by posting a bug against the package, rather than putting something in REVU.
 * ajmitch sees that it's a package that was removed from debian
<persia_> ajmitch: Ought that matter?  I acknowledge that supercollider is broken in a significant number of ways, but wouldn't expect REVU to drop it just because it used to be in Debian.  Does the package cache need a refresh, maybe?
<ajmitch> not saying that it should be dropped, just that it'd be something to look at closely due to how broken it was in debian before removal
<ajmitch> I just saw the 'repackaged from scratch' in the changelog
<artfwo> it was logical to repackage from scratch
<artfwo> the new package is a lot cleaner (cdbs, simple-patch-sys, etc.)
<artfwo> it builds and runs
<persia_> artfwo: In general, it's better to preserve changelog history for upgraders.  The rest can be dropped.  Also note that you'll need to get an entry into P-a-s before it goes in, unless someone did sufficient engine redesign to make it work for 64-bit architectures.
<artfwo> I've got a couple of good testimonials: http://artfwo.blogspot.com/2008/04/supercollider-for-hardy.html
 * ajmitch is running revu-key update now, btw
<artfwo> I've got the changelog history in place
<tbielawa> please sync my key from lp too
<tbielawa> launchpad.net/~tbielawa
<artfwo> persia_: and what is P-a-s?
<persia_> artfwo: In that case, you're likely good.  Also woth reviewing the old BTS bugs just to make sure they all got closed.
<artfwo> persia_: yes, I remember you pointed me to those bugs earlier. As the new upstream has greatly simplified and enchaned SConstruct, the source compiles just about anywhere!
<persia_> P-a-s is Packages-architecture-specific, which is a file that is shared between Debian and Ubuntu to control where packages are built and distributed.  While much of this can be handled by appropriate use of Architecture: in debian/control, it is very useful in cases where you have a mix of Arch: all and Arch: any binaries that need support, as it's not worth making the arch: all binaries arch-specific just because they are completel
<persia_> artfwo: Compiles, sure.  Is it 64-bit clean yet?
<artfwo> persia_: no, but I simply disable sclang with a scons option for amd64
<persia_> artfwo: What about ia64?
<artfwo> this architecture wasn't among supported arches even for the server in the original package, so I didn't specify it as well
<persia_> Hmm..  OK.  Ubuntu used to ship supercollider for ia64 (back in the 04xxxx versions), so this is a surprise to me.
<tbielawa> up upstream tar.gz is filled with CVS folders, is it bad practice to remove those? (I'm removing the debian/ folder already)
<persia_> tbielawa: Best to do as little as possible.  Can you not get away with the --ignore option to debhelper to handle the variation?
<tbielawa> persia_: I'll look at that! thanks for the tip
<artfwo> persia_: I've got "i386 powerpc lpia" for the sclang and "any" for the server
<persia_> tbielawa: For the majority of cases, it allows you to get by even when upstream decides to include a debian/ directory (although it's still good practice to ask them to remove it)
<persia_> artfwo: I know a fair number of powerpc people who like to do audio stuff.  I'm not sure it isn't also interesting for other architectures.  I also heard rumblings about ARM at UDS.
<tbielawa> persia_: while i'm asking questions, is it acceptable for debian/ files to be executable, dpkg-source is warning about it
<StevenK> debian/rules should be the only one
<tbielawa> StevenK: thanks
<persia_> tbielawa: It is acceptable for them to be executable.  On the other hand, it is not safe to rely on anything other than debian/rules being executable for use of the package.
<StevenK> dpatch likes having debian/patches/* executable, but will deal if they aren't.
<RAOF> StevenK: And dpatches in patches/ right?
<persia_> RAOF: Automated.
<persia_> StevenK: Is it worth patching out the executable bit of an upstream debian/ if they leave it there?
<tbielawa> watch doesn't need +x either?
<persia_> tbielawa: No.  Only debian/rules needs it, and dpkg-source typically sets that anyway.
<artfwo> persia_: do you think it's okay to include arm in debian/control? I didn't quite get the point.
<StevenK> persia_: I thought diff didn't preserve permissions?
<persia_> StevenK: I think it can for new files, but I may be mistaken.
<tbielawa> StevenK: dpkg-source: warning: executable mode 0755 of 'debian/bibus.menu' will not be represented in diff
<tbielawa> exactly
<persia_> tbielawa: Just ignore that warning.
<persia_> artfwo: For now, I'd include every architecture not known to be 64-bit.  As there isn't infrastructure in place for arm, it's only worth including that if you're planning to put supercollider back in Debian.
<StevenK> Pity any [!amd64] doesn't work
<artfwo> persia_: okay, but where can I get the list of available architectures?
<persia_> StevenK: Yes, but what about ia64?
<persia_> artfwo: https://launchpad.net/+builds
<StevenK> persia_: I didn't want to complicate matters. :-)
<artfwo> thanks!
<persia_> StevenK: :)  Aren't you one of the only people  with an ia64 workstation around anyway?
<StevenK> I have an amd64, not an Itantic
<persia_> StevenK: Ah.  I thought you had at least one of each arch.
<StevenK> Itanic, sigh
<StevenK> persia_: I'm ignoring ia64 in the hope it goes away
<persia_> heh
<artfwo> hppa and sparc have both 32-bit and 64-bit designs, right?
<StevenK> Yes
<persia_> I think we only do 32-bit versions of those, kernels aside.
<StevenK> sparc32, also known as "Ohmigod, those come in only 32 bit?"
 * persia_ waves around a selection of hypersparcs
<artfwo> so, is it okay to assume those are not 64-bit?
<StevenK> I have a SparcStation [25] around somewhere.
<tbielawa> zomg, lintian had no output! success!
<StevenK> The 2 is a sun4c, from memory.
<persia_> tbielawa: Did you turn on all of the flags?
<tbielawa> oh.. no...
<tbielawa> recommended flags?
<persia_> tbielawa: lintian -iIv
<persia_> Also remember to use it on both the source and binary builds.
<tbielawa> persia_: thanks
<tbielawa> persia_: it's not as quiet as it was before.... I guess I have more work to do
<artfwo> i'm sorry for repeating the question, but ï»¿anyway is it okay to assume hppa and sparc are not 64-bit?
<StevenK> Nope.
<StevenK> All modern hppa and sparc hardware is 64-bit
<persia_> StevenK: Don't we compile 32-bit userspace anyway?  Did we change that?
<StevenK> For sparc, I don't think so. hppa, I *think* so
<StevenK> My PA-RISC is lucky to be 32 bit, so I can't check
<persia_> artfwo: You likely want to ask the sparc and hppa teams.  Unfortunately, I don't know the best points of contact.
<artfwo> by reading the supercollider changelog, I see that it failed to run on anything but i386 and powerpc
<persia_> artfwo: It ought work fine on lpia as well.
<artfwo> yes, lpia is okay
<artfwo> i'm looking through debian bugs, e.g. debian bug 290339
<ubottu> Debian bug 290339 in supercollider "supercollider: [m68k] FTBFS" [Serious,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/290339
<persia_> artfwo: That's just bad coding of the 64-bit test.  I would be extra surprised to find a 64-bit m68k
<artfwo> but there's also debian bug 276212
<ubottu> Debian bug 276212 in ftp.debian.org "RM: supercollider [alpha sparc amd64]" [Grave,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/276212
<artfwo> it also mentions debian using 64-bit sparc kernel
<persia_> artfwo: That's the design issue.  There's an 8-byte variable, for which the lower 32-bits is used for the value, and the upper 32-bits is used for a pointer to something else.  This fails for word sizes != 32-bits.
<artfwo> persia_: yes, I'm aware of that
<persia_> artfwo: Right.  I'm saying 290339 is fixable, but 276212 is very difficult.
<artfwo> the upstream is working on fixing this, but there's no release yet
<artfwo> anyway, could the REVU upload got rejected because of original source being included twice?
<persia_> That's excellent news.  Last I read from upstream was that it didn't matter, and everyone should use 32-bit, but that was years ago.
<persia_> artfwo: Included twice?  That's bad.  Which package was rejected?
<artfwo> supercollider
<artfwo> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=supercollider
<persia_> That's there.  Look way down at the bottom of the page.
<artfwo> my today's upload had the same .orig inside
<artfwo> the last upload in REVU is dated may 21
<persia_> Ah.  Hmm.  And the most recent upload was source-only?  Odd.
 * persia_ goes away for a while, lamenting the existence of clocks
<tbielawa> c ya later persia_
<artfwo> It looks like REVU finally accepted the package after excluding .orig from upload
<tbielawa> weird
<tbielawa> I thought i saw it saying something about .orig's causing rejection some where
<artfwo> well, it seems to be a problem for reviewers - the source did not get unpackaged for this upload
<tbielawa> bibus source: build-depends-without-arch-dep python
<tbielawa> I have no idea how to begin dealing with that lintial error
<artfwo> afaik, build-depends should not include python
<tbielawa> oh! good to know
<RAOF> If it needs python to build, it should be in a build-dep :)
<artfwo> python-distutils or something like that should go to build-depends, I though
<RAOF> On the other hand, you're probably running into build depends vs build depends indep issues.
<tbielawa> RAOF: I do not understand the different yet
<RAOF> If you're producing an arch independent (arch all) package (ie: a pure python module/program), lintian will complain if you have unnecesary stuff in build-depends.
<tbielawa> that is what this is
<tbielawa> arch indipendent
<RAOF> tbielawa: Basically, build-depends-indep should contain everything needed to build the arch-independent part (ie: everything).
<tbielawa> i had python and python-central
<RAOF> With the important proviso that anything necessary to run the clean: rule _must_ be in build-depends.
<artfwo> python-support (>= 0.3) should be enough for most packages
<tbielawa> RAOF: that message from lintian makes more sense now, thanks a lot
<tbielawa> artfwo: in build-dep or build-dep-indep?
<artfwo> I've used it for Build-Dep
<artfwo> does PPA build for intrepid yet?
<RAOF> tbielawa: that depends.  Does the clean: target fail if you don't have python? :)  (Chances are that it does, but I'd need to know what your clean: target runs first.)
<tbielawa> good question
<tbielawa> <3 pbuilder
<RAOF> That should be easy enough to see without pbuilder, but I suppose it's a fallback.
<artfwo> Okay, may I ask kind reviewers to look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=supercollider and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=supercollider-gedit ? Thanks.
<StevenK> Hmm. Doesn't Bind 9 ship with the zone parser?
<StevenK> Ah yes. named-checkzone
<tbielawa> can anyone with REVU access sync my new keys from launchpad please (lp.net/~tbielawa)
<ajmitch> tbielawa: how long ago did you update your keys?
<ajmitch> considering that I resynced the keyring an hour or so ago
<tbielawa> days ago
<tbielawa> I guess then that trying to ssh to the revu server is supposed to fail outright?
<ajmitch> yes
<RAOF> tbielawa: You're not meant to be able to ssh to the revu server unless you're a revu admin (or possibly a motu, I'm not sure).
<tbielawa> silly me
<ajmitch> since it's only your gpg key that it's grabbing
<ajmitch> and the gpg key is just used for verifying uploads, and for the password for the revu interface
<persia_> RAOF: I believe it's REVU Admins + REVU Hackers + UWSA, but I may be mistaken.
<tbielawa> I believe its working....
<tbielawa> Uploading to revu (via ftp to revu.tauware.de):
 * ajmitch thinks there's a fair bit of overlap between those teams
<tbielawa> time to call it quits for tonight. thanks for your help everyone
<Amaranth> downside to meeting people in person
<Amaranth> persia is assigning me directly to compiz bugs now :P
<bddebian> haha
<persia_> I'd do that anyway, if you set it in-progress and didn't assign it, and someone told me.  You can always reassign, or better explain how to came to be "In Progress"...
<Amaranth> I was using In Progress as "is fixed upstream, will be fixed when we update"
<Amaranth> Although that bug actually ended up not being fixed
 * persia_ wants "Fix Available" back
<Amaranth> I think it might be a bug in gnome-screensaver, honestly
<Amaranth> I should try xscreensaver and kscreensaver
<bddebian> persia_: Oh, bye the way, any particular reason you worked on libjsw in Ubuntu but didn't do anything in Debian?  Though now that I ask that, libjsw isn't a games team package is it?
<persia_> Could be.  I just noticed the assigned package, and the identity of the person setting "In Progress", and thought I'd assign it.
<Amaranth> oh well, now it's on my todo list :P
<Amaranth> need to get it fixed somehow anyway
<persia_> bddebian: It's not games team.  There was some discussion about it on the mailing list several months ago (maybe even a year), but the general agreement was that it was better not to use libjsw.
<Amaranth> or off the list of compiz bugs :)
<persia_> Amaranth: If you're feeling extra LP-cool, link to the upstream bug, set the upstream bug as committed (or whatever), and set the Ubuntu bug as Confirmed.  This will push it into the fixed upstream list, and then into really-fix-it (I think).
<Amaranth> heh, it's not actually fixed upstream
<ajmitch> just sort of maybe fixed upstream?
<Amaranth> we thought it would be, needed those people to test and i doubt any of them can manage to build compiz
<persia_> bddebian: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-games/2008/01/msg00247.html
<persia_> I believe that had all the Ubuntu changes merged, at the time of review.
<persia_> bddebian: Reviewing that, it appears you are the person who convinced me not to pull libjsw into the games team :p
<bddebian> Oh yeah, I even replied to that one.. heh
<bddebian> I was complaining about search and rescue being an unmaintained POS
<persia_> bddebian: Right, and as that's the only intentional user of libjsw (oxine can do better: it has an upstream), someone ought either fix or remove searchandrescue, and then we can drop libjsw.
 * persia_ likes the S&R engine, but has never been able to complete a mission
 * ajmitch has never used that 'application'
<ajmitch> more things to waste my time cannot be good
<bddebian> Weird, I don't see libjsw as a build-dep or dep of oxine
<persia_> ajmitch: Consider it an opportunity to improve hand/eye coordination.
<persia_> bddebian: Right.  That got fixed.  it's only S&R that needs to be ripped to shreds.  There's only three or four calls, so porting to SDL ought be fairly easy.
<persia_> bddebian: I haven't looked recently, but I suspect http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-games/2008/01/msg00254.html is still accurate, given how much attention is given to S&R maintenance.
<bddebian> Hmm, I'm not sure I would know where to start with that one
<persia_> I'd start with the menu.  Once that works, you can fiddle with gctl.c
<bddebian> Not that anyone looks at the work I do already.. ;-P
<persia_> bddebian: Right.  Make me a list of 10 things to look at over the weekend, and I'll look at them, just to disprove your point.
<bddebian> hah
<bddebian> You don't help me much when you can't upload to Debian. ;-P
<persia_> bddebian: Well then.  Don't complain :p
<bddebian> I was talking about Games Team folks atm :)
<bddebian> Have you ever tried AstroMenace?
 * persia_ refrains from learning about the existence of more games, in hopes of doing something.
<bddebian> heh
<LucidFox> Hmm.
<LucidFox> It looks like GTK applications written in interpreted languages, like Perl, Python and Java, are the ones most likely to completely disregard the HIG.
<persia_> LucidFox: Is there perhaps also a relation to things in GNOME upstream?
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> greetings, dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<nixternal> oi oi
<nixternal> mornin' dholbach
<dholbach> hiya nixternal :)
<nixternal> so, did you enjoy uds?
<dholbach> absolutely :-)
<nixternal> I promise to be at the next one!
<nixternal> 6 more months!!! :)
<dholbach> once I triaged my inbox I'll probably write a lenghty blog post :)
<nixternal> heh, my inbox is nuts...I have about 100 doc patches for KDE 4.trunk
<nixternal> I was sick all weekend, so I didn't get a chance to upload them to svn yet
<dholbach> WOW
<nixternal> and to top it off, my trunk build box has something funky with my radeon 9500
<dholbach> hope you're going to be better soon again
<nixternal> constantly locking up
<nixternal> ya, I am better right now, tomorrow I should be golden
<dholbach> ROCK
<nixternal> I have been pretty sick since like thursday
<dholbach> the last night was awesome - we rented a club and had the first ever "Ubuntu Allstars" where an Ubuntu band played and james_w and I played some drum'n'bass afterwards
<dholbach> I immensely enjoyed that
<nixternal> rock on...I watched the one video of the allstars
<nixternal> tried to get jono and jorge rock out last month in detroit, but that didn't prove successful
<pwnguin> heh, see, open source programming is just like being a rock star
<dholbach> it was big fun - TheMuso_ was brilliant on the keyboard and the drums
<Hobbsee> hey all
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<dholbach> he played "Light my Fire" together with sabdfl :)
<dholbach> hi Hobbsee
<warp10> Good morning
 * persia_ seeks volunteers with some familiarity with packaging who are looking for something to do.
<artfwo> i'm currently available
<persia_> artfwo: We've a number of packages that are Ubuntu-local, in that they don't have an assigned Debian maintainer.
<persia_> 80 of these are known to be out of sync with upstream, and need an update for intrepid.
<persia_> The list of these packages can be found from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_updated.html
<persia_> For each package, it needs a quick update to the new upstream, a review of outstanding LP bugs to close what can be closed, often a policy update to make it lintian clean, and some testing.
<persia_> In many cases, the new upstream (with fixes) will be better than what we have now, and it ought be in intrepid.
<artfwo> how do I propose an update for such a package? LP bug with debdiff?
<persia_> artfwo: Create an Update bug, and attach the diff.gz for the new package.  If you can't get the right upstream directly from the watch file, make sure debian/rules get-orig-source will do the right thing.
<artfwo> what if there's no get-orig-source?
<RAOF> Patches welcome? :)
<persia_> artfwo: It can be added :)
<RAOF> persia_: How many of them _should_ be Ubuntu local?  I'm on a bit of a push to Debian phase.  Is there anything interesting there?
<persia_> Note that some of these are false positives.  For example, libfile-flock-perl appears to be a bug in the watch file, rather than there actually being a new upstream.
<dholbach> hi persia_
<pwnguin> RAOF: ffmpegthumbnailer?
<artfwo> it's a surprise for me, that get-orig-source is actually used
<persia_> RAOF: I'm not actually sure.  I'm guessing about half are QA-maintained in Debian: might be worth chasing those if you're on a DCT-push.
<RAOF> artfwo: It's easy enough to implement a crappy get-orig-source using the watch file, if available.  It's also possible to implement a good g-o-s with the watch file, but I've forgotten how ;)
<persia_> To make a good one, you have to mess with options.  I'll see if I can find a reference...
<artfwo> RAOF: but is it okay to use uscan from debian/rules?
<RAOF> Why not?
<persia_> artfwo: Yes.
<artfwo> the options are in man uscan afaik, btw
<RAOF> Yeah, but you need to do special things to ensure that you can call get-orig-source from an arbitrary directory.
<artfwo> but what is better for debian/rules? uscan or wget/svn export, etc.?
<RAOF> Depends.  uscan isn't going to work anytime you need svn export.  And wget is probably duplication work performed by the watchfile, anyway.
<persia_> artfwo: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-games/2008/02/msg00135.html is likely the best example I've written (although for a more complex case).  It might need a bit of editing.
<persia_> artfwo: Use uscan when you can, wget when you can't, and $(VCS) export only when you must.
<persia_> Note that for "can't", it needs to be an upstream that does not support a watch file, not just a missing watch file.  uscan will work in all cases from that URL.
<RAOF> persia_: Awesome.  I've been looking for that on and off for a while.
<persia_> RAOF: Which: the rules for uscan/wget/$(VCS) export, or how to hack mediatomb?
<persia_> Anyway, it's worth reviewing the entire thread, as I believe someone found a bug in my initial hack.
<artfwo> persia_: what about the changelog entries for your list?
<persia_> artfwo: You'll likely want " * New Upstream Version (LP: #nnnnnn)" at the top.  If upstream closed some bugs or had interesting changes, list these underneath with ("  + Allow user to frab quux (LP: #nnnnnn)".  Also mention any other bugs you close, or packaging changes.
<artfwo> okay, thanks!
<RAOF> persia_: How to get the right directory from Make, basically.  $(dir $(_)) seems to do it.
<persia_> RAOF: Yeah.  $(dir $(_)) is raw sneakiness.  Took me days to find it.
<RAOF> We should put that on a wiki somewhere.
<artfwo> persia_: lv2core from the list is already in revu: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=lv2core
<RAOF> Some of those _must_ be in Debian.  swfdec certainly is.
<persia_> artfwo: It doesn't belong in REVU, where it will be ignored.  Anyway, maybe look at the next one.
<persia_> RAOF: If they are in Debian, they are orphaned.
<RAOF> Hm.  So, my Sid system doesn't have swfdec0.5; it does however have an apparently non-orphaned swfdec-mozilla and a libswfdec-0.6-90
<artfwo> persia_: why it will be ignored in REVU? isn't REVU a place for actually reviewing and accepting packages?
<persia_> RAOF: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Examples/ChangingTheOrigTarball might be a good candidate.
<persia_> artfwo: NEW packages, yes.  Updates, no.
<RAOF> I suspect that swfdec0.5 is an obsolete package that should be replaced by/merged with the debian one.
<persia_> RAOF: Likely.  Given autosync, it might just need a removal request.
<RAOF> Heh; yup.  Hardy has the 0.60 swfdec packages.  swfdec0.5 can probably die, then.
<artfwo> persia_: but then the only acceptable way for a contributor to update a package is a debdiff in LP?
<persia_> artfwo: either a debdiff or a diff.gz, yes.
<persia_> artfwo: The benefit is that you only need one approval for something in LP, as opposed to three (two MOTU + Archive Admin) from REVU, so this is really easier, although sometimes confusing.
<artfwo> aha, I see
<persia_> (well, sometimes you need dev+archive admin, if you have new binary packages, but it's still easier)
<RAOF> zope2.9 may also be a candidate for removal
<persia_> RAOF: If you're considering removals, you may find the other UEHS lists just as interesting.  While they aren't as easy for someone to just update, they still have lists of Ubuntu-local stuff.
<RAOF> Or maybe not.  We seem to have a whole lot more zope packages that Debian, and many of them depend on 2.9
<persia_> Maybe we need to organise a transition?  I seem to remember something about there being a combined Debian/Ubuntu Zope team.
<RAOF> Mayhap.
<RAOF> I'm not particularly interested in zope, I just know that others are and was hence surprised that it's on the list.-
<persia_> Any Zope people around?  Maybe from the antipodes?
 * persia_ expects it's too late that far east anyway
 * RAOF is just about to head home and make delicious con carne.
<persia_> RAOF: I was thinking even further east than you, but interest may have waned over time
 * RAOF wasn't aware there _was_ further east than me :P
<persia_> RAOF: Aren't you only in UTC+10?
<RAOF> Well, yeah.
<persia_> RAOF: Well, the world goes UTC+13 through UTC-14, so there's heaps east of you (although not as much as is west of you).
<persia_> I think there are at least 5 significant polities east, but would have to check a map to be sure.
<RAOF> But only the southern hemisphere counts, so that leaves just NZ and some tiny islands :P
<persia_> True.  Northern Hemisphere doesn't really have anything between UTC+10 and UTC-11.  Not even islands.
<persia_> (I think in one place, UTC+10 and UTC-11 are about 20km apart)
<RAOF> There's the far eastern edge of Russia, I think, and ...?
<persia_> far western edge of Alaska
<RAOF> Oh, at -11, yeah.
<RAOF> Anyway, I'm off to make good on my threat of con carne.
<artfwo> Strange, I have tried to produce a debdiff between hardy lv2 and LV2 from REVU, but it also shows differences between the orig tarballs.
<persia_> artfwo: debdiff isn't really the best tool to do that.  You'll want to attach your diff.gz for review.
<persia_> artfwo: If you want to see your changes, use interdiff on the diff.gz files.  I think it's something like interdiff -z -p1 foo_x.y-0ubuntu1.diff.gz foo_x.z-0ubuntu1.diff.gz, but man interdiff to be sure.
 * persia_ really ought update that documentation soon
<persia_> artfwo: Also, if you're interested in LV2 beyond just updating it, there's tons of modules that still need packaging.
<artfwo> persia_: yes, I'm going to try packaging the plugins in my spare time, cause I wanna switch to LV2 soon :)
<persia_> artfwo: Excellent.  I'm looking forward to that, as there's a few neat things that LV2 does so much better.  Getting a nice suite of tools available for intrepid is one of my private goals.
<artfwo> they say interdiff is deprecated here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/03/07/%23ubuntu-motu.txt
<persia_> artfwo: interdiff is deprecated for attachment to a bug.  It's still a useful tool.
<artfwo> how do I name the interdiff output file?
<artfwo> lv2core_2.0-0ubuntu1.diff.gz is already taken by the .diff.gz
<persia_> artfwo: I use .interdiff, but I recommend just piping into less for your personal review, rather than making a file.
<artfwo> i am browsing it with less right now :)
<artfwo> just want to name the bug attachment in a standard way
<persia_> artfwo: Found it.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2008-02-01 talks about the switch from interdiff as a bug attachment to diff.gz as a bug attachment.
<persia_> artfwo: Attach the new diff.gz to the bug, not the interdiff.
<slytherin> persia_: Back from UDS?
<persia_> Interdiff can help you understand what you changed, and help the reviewer understand what you changed, but is a waste of storage, and confusing when attached directly.
<persia_> slytherin: UDS is over.
<slytherin> persia_: I know. I was wondering if you are back home or still in Prague
<persia_> slytherin: I'm back.
<slytherin> :_)
<slytherin> :-)
<artfwo> persia_: latest version for gnochm from UEHS is also already available in debian
<persia_> artfwo: In that case, a sync/merge would be ideal.  That tool only checks watch files: it doesn't tell you how to get the new version.
<artfwo> but how is sync performed? I though it requires to be a motu to do these things...
<slytherin> artfwo: you verify if a sync is sufficient and then file a bug. Once it is ack'ed by a MOTU an archive admin will do that.
<persia_> artfwo: It requires MOTU approval, but anyone can request a sync.  If you aren't MOTU, just subscribe the sponsorsr.
<slytherin> artfwo: It will be great if you can verify that the package actually builds in intrepid chroot.
<artfwo> could you give some sync request examples in LP?
<persia_> artfwo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/ has a few
<artfwo> the gnochm package from debian builds alright, to whom would I subsribe a sync request - the motu or ubuntu-archive?
<persia_> artfwo: neither.  You want to subscribe one of ubuntu-main-sponsors or ubuntu-universe-sponsors (depending on whether gnochm is in main).
<artfwo> but why the requests show in ï»¿/~ubuntu-archive?
<artfwo> ah, the sponsor subscribes after verification
<persia_> artfwo: Exactly.  I pointed at the archive list because there are typically between 10 and 200 pending requests there.
<slytherin> persia_: Now that you are back may I again bug you about review? geser did a review and I have fixed the problems he specified. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=xml-commons-external
<persia_> slytherin: Not now, but I'll take a look in a few hours (assuming I can catch up with my backlist of outstanding promises)
<slytherin> persia_: Ok. I understand you must be having huge backlog. :-)
<pochu> hi *
<emgent> heya pochu :)
<pochu> hey emgent :)
<foolano> hi ppl
<foolano> if there's an open bug in LP  for a given package, and upstream fixes it. Should the the bug status change to "fix committed"?
<wgrant> foolano: No. The upstream task should be Fix Released or Fix Committed, depending on how fixed it is upstream.
<wgrant> Some people do abuse the Ubuntu task to show that state, however.
 * pochu throws https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/+subscribedbugs?field.searchtext=merge to the channel
<foolano> wgrant: so the bug status will never change to fix committed or fix released until a new package is uploaded, whether upstream has released a fix or not?
<wgrant> foolano: Why would the Ubuntu status change unless the status in Ubuntu had changed?
<foolano> wgrant: i was wondering if there was any relationship between upstream changes on the bug and the actual bug in ubuntu
<wgrant> foolano: No. The Ubuntu task reflects the status in Ubuntu, and that's all.
<foolano> ok, got it
<LucidFox> When merging a package from Debian, is it necessary to preserve old Ubuntu changelog entries if old Ubuntu changes have been merged but new ones are needed?
<wgrant> LucidFox: In general, yes.
<sebner> huhu mok0 :)
<LucidFox> ok
<mok0> sebner!!!!!
<sebner> mok0: ???????????
<mok0> sebner: that was an outcry of enthusiasm!
<sebner> mok0: ah. ok ^^
<slytherin> foolano: you can add a watch for upstream bug, if there is any. Check 'Also Affects ..."
<foolano> slytherin: alright, thanks :)
<Laney> dholbach: ping
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Hi all. I have a package in my ppa whose version has a "+ppaname1" appended to avoid being superceded by ubuntu updates
<Le-Chuck_ITA> now I want to revert to ubuntu defaults for users of my ppa
<Le-Chuck_ITA> so I would like every user to get back to the ubuntu version (possibly upgrading the package with a dummy package?)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I don't know how to do that :)
<BugMaN> Le-Chuck_ITA: via synaptic you may force version of a package
<stdin> easiest way is to get the ubuntu version (remove the deb-src for your ppa and apt-get source <package>", then increment the version to be higher than yours
<stdin> other than that, the only way is to get the users to manually do it
<Le-Chuck_ITA> stdin but if I do that, how can I be sure that they'll get next ubuntu update?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I did this right now but I had to append +ppaname2 to supercede mine
<Le-Chuck_ITA> so when -ubuntu2 will be out, it will not be higher than mine
<stdin> what's the version you have for your package?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ubuntu1+ppaname2
<stdin> ubuntu1+ppaname1 ?
<stdin> oh
<stdin> well, ubuntu1+ppaname2 is less than ubuntu2
<Laney> Grr. This package builds in pbuilder but not using debuild -B
<Le-Chuck_ITA> hmmm.  And suppose I wish to overwrite *every* ubuntu update in the future
<Le-Chuck_ITA> how would I name my package then?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> and how would I cancel should I decide to abandon the package?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> maybe it's still not possible?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> The idea is to be able to maintain a bugfix to a package until ubuntu adds it, then remove it from the ppa
<Le-Chuck_ITA> so I can't allow ubuntu updates until ubuntu fixes the bug, and, since then, my version should no longer be used
<stdin> just keep a higher version in your repo, I usually increment the ubuntu release and append ~ppaname1 to my package
<stdin> the safest way for the users is to update your version whenever ubuntu updates theirs
<Le-Chuck_ITA> stdin: but in the lag when I still didn't notice there's a new ubuntu version out, users will get a version without the fix or am I missing the point?
<man-di> Le-Chuck_ITA: maybe you can add a special package. Each of your maintained packages depends on it and it Conflicts will all versions of packages you dont maintain/need anymore
<stdin> Le-Chuck_ITA: yeah, but there's no way (from a packaging point of view) to say "use this repo for this package and ignore others"
<stdin> uses can set up apt pinning to do it on their end, but can't be done on the packaging side
<wgrant> Le-Chuck_ITA: Why not get the bug fixed in Ubuntu?"
<Le-Chuck_ITA> wgrant: sometimes it just takes time
<Le-Chuck_ITA> and I want to provide a bugfix in the meantime
<Le-Chuck_ITA> without becoming a developer
<Le-Chuck_ITA> wgrant: some other times there's no agreement with developers
<wgrant> Le-Chuck_ITA: You can get a patch sponsored...
<wgrant> PPA is *not* a workaround for slow bugfixing on the Ubuntu side.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> wgrant:
<stdin> PPAs can be a tool though, upload a patch to the bug and call for testers for the PPA
<Le-Chuck_ITA> wgrant: on one side there's testing as stdin says, on the other hand, I often can fix a bug in 20 minutes (maybe because other people already posted a patch somewhere else), but then it takes ages to convince developers to look at it. Since I have very few time, I am happy to contribute a fix in my spare time, but can't afford the rest :(
<Le-Chuck_ITA> so I have decided to upload things on a ppa and on the bug report
<wgrant> Le-Chuck_ITA: File bug. Attach debdiff. Subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors. Wait a day or two. ???. Profit.
<slytherin> wgrant: +1
<slytherin> In fact profit for everybody.
<wgrant> Yep.
<Hobbsee> u-u-s is known slow, though
<Le-Chuck_ITA> wgrant: I still have to follow every detail
<wgrant> Le-Chuck_ITA: What do you mean?
<wgrant> Hobbsee: At times, true.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> the upload may be good for testing but not completely respect ubuntu policy
<wgrant> It's not good for testing, then.
<wgrant> You shouldn't be distributing known-bad packages to innocent users.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> well: suppose I didn't understand the versioning policy correctly, which in fact I didn't
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I am still able to upload a fix for the bug
<wgrant> Then you take approximately 30 seconds to learn the versioning policy, once off, and save lots of time, and make everybody happy.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> wgrant: I perfectly understand your point but it is easier to provide a small fix than to learn all the ubuntu policies
<Le-Chuck_ITA> and if I can't do more, I can still attach the patch to a bug
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but it's different than following the entire official upload process
<wgrant> What Ubuntu policies do you need to know?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> the latter is much more time consuming
<Le-Chuck_ITA> each time I discover something new :)
<wgrant> You should be following all processes if you upload to your PPA, too.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> and forget the old ones!
<wgrant> Policies are there for a reason, not just to annoy people.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> wgrant: for lyx I did all the steps
<Le-Chuck_ITA> you may remember this
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but for xournal I didn't have the time, one year later
<Le-Chuck_ITA> to do that again
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Then, I uploaded new upstream release to a ppa
<wgrant> Why does it take more than a couple of minutes more?
<Laney> How do I install the build-deps for a source package?
<wgrant> Laney: sudo apt-get build-dep somepackage
<Laney> wgrant: That'll get them for the version in the repos
<Le-Chuck_ITA> wgrant: how do I subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I will do that for xournal
<wgrant> Le-Chuck_ITA: Click `Subscribe someone else'.
<wgrant> And enter ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<wgrant> Laney: Use pbuilder or sbuild or similar, as that's how you should be building things.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok I will try and see if I am able to be a proper bug fixer in universe :)
<wgrant> Le-Chuck_ITA: That would be great. We need as much manpower as we can get!
<Laney> wgrant: Ah, this is my problem. The package was building fine in pbuilder but not with debuild. So I want to test my new build-deps
<wgrant> Laney: Install them manually, I guess.
<Laney> bah
<Le-Chuck_ITA> wgrant: still, the problem of properly maintaining a forked package for a limited amount of time and then switch my users back to ubuntu if I don't want to maintain the patch anymore exists
<wgrant> Le-Chuck_ITA: Pinning is the only way to do that safely.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> wgrant: should I add a repository package with pinning to my ppa?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> this is indeed possible
<wgrant> Le-Chuck_ITA: I don't know. I don't deal in such evils.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> wgrant: forks are never evil :)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> cause: if a fork is wrong, it will die and rest in peace, if it is good, it will influence the original project
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ubuntu is a fork after all
<Le-Chuck_ITA> properly maintained
<Le-Chuck_ITA> wgrant: still, I think there is a very good reason to provide both a ppa and a request for sponsorship: my new xournal release will go (if everything is fine which I doubt) into intrepid. Instead, I provide a package for hardy.
<wgrant> Le-Chuck_ITA: And Hardy versions won't increase.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I think it is difficult to get a new upstream release in hardy
<Le-Chuck_ITA> or am I wrong?
<wgrant> You are correct.
<wgrant> That was my point.
<wgrant> Hardy versions won't increase, so you don't need a kludge to keep your version above it.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> while you think that a proper backport would be easily accepted into hardy and there's no need to maintain it separately
<Le-Chuck_ITA> (I mean a backport of specific fixes)
<wgrant> Right, so properly backport it.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> wgrant: in fact the most important case I can think of where I would still have this need (assuming that I can do proper sponsorship requests) is a case of disagreement with the ubuntu-developer
<Le-Chuck_ITA> however I am waiting uds and next release of hardy before drawing conclusions
<wgrant> Next release of Hardy?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I mean the .1 release of june, 03 :)
<wgrant> Ah. There's nothing at all special about that.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> wgrant: there has a meeting (UDS?) recently
<Le-Chuck_ITA> the issue *should* have been discussed there
<wgrant> What issue?
<wgrant> I don't seen an issue.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> the tablet input
<wgrant> Ah.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Tablet by default was disabled for *very good reasons* but without any discussion by the person who has stopped replying to any comments of mine on launchpad. There is a possibility of fixing input ONLY for tablet pcs, not for all tablets. I was a bit rude on the ubuntu-devel mailing list (you probably know). However the result is that nobody cared about the issue any further and the developer stopped replying *any* of my commen
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I see that everybody will agree, it is completely my fault. However I still think is very bad respect of the policy to disable an important feature without any discussion.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> and this does not actually belong to MOTU
<Le-Chuck_ITA> however, this and many other problems in main led me to the conclusion that I can only be outside or inside the devel team.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> there is no half way
<dholbach> Laney: pong
<Laney> dholbach: I was going to ask you about that ygraph sync that failed to build, but I've got it now.
<Laney> Weird that it worked in pbuilder but not with debuild :(
<dholbach> Laney: I built it with debuild, because I installed pkgstriptranslations locally
<Laney> It looks like the build-dep on docbook was pulled in with pbuilder but not with debuild
<Laney> dholbach: Also, I uploaded a patch to that 5-a-day bug if you want to use it
<norsetto> dholbach!
<dholbach> heya norsetto
<dholbach> Laney: I got the mail - I need to triage my inbox some more, then will get back to it - thanks for your work on it
<Laney> OK, no probs :)
<dholbach> Treenaks' memories of UDS: http://foodfight.org/zut/holbach-dance.gif
 * Laney uploads the merge for ygraph
<persia> dholbach: Your hands are too close together to make that believable.
<dholbach> when I read the URL I thought "oh no, this must be a crazy video of friday night" but luckily it wasnt :)
<Laney> dholbach: Uploaded the merge, thanks for your review
<persia> lionel: Rhonda (of Debian fame) has prepared an update for pgadmin3 for sync from experimental, if you have time to review.
<norsetto> persia: hi there, glad tyou are back, and glad to have met you "in person"
<dholbach> Laney: no problem
<persia> norsetto: Yes indeed.  Good to attach the face, the voice, and the nick :)
<lionel> persia: yes, I can review. Is it in the UUS queue ?
<norsetto> dhlbach: hehe, you had your mixing table hidden in your laptop then
<dholbach> ... and have a few beer together
<dholbach> :)
<persia> lionel: Nope.  Still in incoming, but http://rhonda.deb.at/debian/pgadmin3/ has a snapshot.
<lionel> Ok
<lionel> thanks
<persia> lionel: Thanks for watching it :)
 * persia should really build an intrepid chroot one of these days
 * norsetto -> lunch
<slytherin> persia: I have one ready if you care for about 70MB transfer. :-)
<persia> slytherin: -ECONTEXT
<slytherin> persia: intrepid chroot, base.tgz
<persia> slytherin: Ah.  No, my issue is mostly that I need to re-juggle my volumes to arrange space for the chroots that would be most convenient for me, rather than a lack of content.  Thanks though.
<slytherin> oks
<slytherin> persia: But you can have the chroot created on any partition, right?
<persia> slytherin: Yes, but for my use case, it's best to have them in LVM, so as to be able to pull snapshots, etc.
<slytherin> hmm
<slytherin> I have one question. Should we really keep adonthell in repositories? The game has seen no development for last almost 3 years
<StevenK> I've heard people talking about a few command line wrappers that limit download and upload speeds, can anyone actually tell the name of one?
<StevenK> Never mind, rsync does it internally
 * persia likes adonthell, although Waste's edge is getting buggy, and upstream is slow
<sebner> persia: got my mail?
<persia> sebner: Yes.  See above :)
<sebner> persia: hmm, sorry?
<emgent> uh?
<emgent> hi Hemmet
<emgent> s/Hemmet/Emmet/
 * persia steals all the 'H' keys, and reserves them for more careful typists
<emgent> lol
<slytherin> norsetto: Do you mind if I work on gnomeradio merge? At first look it seems like it will be a sync.
<emgent> persia: check your mailbox :)
 * persia discourages people from equating reading mail to responding to mail
 * emgent remember persia to trust gpg key 
<norsetto> slytherin: I think I already requested a sync for that
<sebner> huhu norsetto =)
<slytherin> norsetto: Yes, I checked that just after I asked you. :-)
<norsetto> hi sebner
<cheatr> Could someone explain to me what a Fakesync is? I was unable to find much info on it in the wiki
<norsetto> cheatr: its a sync done by uploading a source package
<cheatr> norsetto: From the little info I found, I read that the .orig.tar.gz is modified. Is this true? If so, how do you figure out what changes were made to it/why they did a fakesync?
<norsetto> cheatr: the orig.tar.gz should not be modified, a fakesync is just a manual sync. It could be possible that you need to do that since the .orig.tar.gz in Debian is different from the one in Ubuntu
<norsetto> cheatr: if thats the case, an archive->archive sync is rejected, you need to check manually what are the changes and if acceptable do a manual sync
<Laney> dholbach: When you ask me to not use "merge" in the changelog, do you mean that the entry should not mention it at all, or just that the additional change should be as a separate item?
<cheatr> norsetto: So are you saying I need to manually check the changes between the .orig.tar.gz from Debian and Ubuntu? Or just check the other changes (like the ones listed in the changelog)
<norsetto> cheatr: what is it you are actually doing?
<cheatr> norsetto: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sword/+bug/234580
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 234580 in sword "Please sync sword 1.5.9-8.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,In progress]
<norsetto> cheatr: check with the previous uploader why a fakesync was needed, perhaps there is another reason than a difference in tarballs
<dholbach> Laney: basically you "sync" the debian package, then add a new change to it - merging always contains "old changes" - it was just me nit-picking
<slytherin> is it possible to have 2 binary packages built from same source package but with different jdk ex. one is built with gcj and has limited functionality and other with sun java but has full functionality.
<cheatr> norsetto: Ok, thanks for your help. I'll send the person who made the fakesync an email
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Laney> dholbach: Ah, OK then. How about this? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/14784/
<dholbach> Laney: that's fine - can you ask in #ubuntu-devel if somebody knows why you now might have to add a docbook build-depends? to me it's not exactly clear why that happens, but it shouldn't be necessary
<norsetto> cheatr: if it is a difference in tarballs, than we cannot sync, we need to do another fakesync, that is, your sponsor needs to manually upload a source package. You need to attach a debdiff with the relevant changes in changelog and control in that case
<Laney> Yeah, I don't understand it either. I'll ask.
<norsetto> cheatr: also, check it yourself, download both tarballs and see if they differs
<cheatr> norsetto: Where can I get the other .orig.tar.gz? grab-merge.sh only downloads one .orig.tar.gz file
<norsetto> cheatr: you can wget it from the debian/ubuntu archives or use puc/pdo or even LP or the PTS
<cheatr> norsetto: Ok, I'll take a look at it now
<crimsun> Laney: you shouldn't need to add docbook as an explicit b-d.  The necessary bits are pulled in via docbook-dsssl, which is an existing b-d.
<crimsun> (the b-d chain being via docbook-utils)
<norsetto> bddebian: do you know what DPMT is?
<Laney> crimsun: -dsssl does get pulled in, but it still fails unless I add the build-dep for docbook.
<crimsun> norsetto: the python modules team?
<norsetto> crimsun: ok, that should be it
<crimsun> Laney: where does it fail?
<Laney> crimsun: dholbach's build log is here https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ygraph/+bug/234457/comments/1
<ubottu> Laney: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out
<norsetto> can somebody kick ubottu in the cogs?
<cheatr> norsetto: Is there a way to do a diff of two .tar.gz files to see what changes were made?
<norsetto> cheatr: there should be some switch to use with diff, check man diff, otherwise just untar them and do a diff -Nurb, check also md5sums
 * norsetto -> away
<Laney> crimsun: Any clue?
<Laney> Also, does anyone know what a pipe means next to a particular package in apt-cache depends output?
<Laney> |Depends: foo""
<mok0> tar --compare
<Laney> Oh, it means alternatives
<persia> slytherin: It's possible, but it's an annoying complex debian/rules
<persia> Laney: Alternate dependencies, which are slightly different from alternatives, but essentially.
<sebner> persia: is japanese written language similar to chinese one?
<persia> sebner: Not really.  Japanese and Chinese share some characters, and for those characters, the meaning is about the same, but the grammar is very different, and Japanese use sound-only characters for lots of things.
<persia> (Note that some is between 1900 and 7000, depending on who you ask)
<sebner> persia: ah ok. just asking because I got a chinese (spam?) mail with a picture of a card with chinese characters (at least I think so) and I'm looking for somebody translating for me =)
<persia> sebner: I'm entirely the wrong person to translate anything.  Maybe loosely gloss stuff, but...
<sebner> persia: nvm then. thx anyway
<pochu> nxvl: care to switch bug 233953 to a sync request, given the discussion in it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 233953 in kiwi "Please merge kiwi 1.9.21-1 from debian sid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/233953
<pochu> nxvl: nevermind, I've done it
<Laney> dholbach: I think I figured it out. docbook-dsssl depends on (docbook | docbook-xml). At least on my system, docbook-xml was already installed and therefore docbook wasn't being pulled in. docbook is needed as the ygraph module is sgml not XML. pbuilder must be pulling in the first alternative, which just happens to be the correct one here.
<persia> Laney: This is one of many reasons it is best to use pbuilder and sbuild, rather than debuild.  Spread the gospel.
<Laney> persia: Yeah! I only did the test build with pbuilder, but when dholbach was reviewing he noticed the failure when doing his test with debuild
 * persia looks down upon deprecated build methods for package review, and encourages the installation of all packaging mangling packages in build-test chroots
<dholbach> persia: I wanted to see if it still builds with pkgstriptranslations
<dholbach> because that was fixed in an earlier upload
<persia> dholbach: Right.  Chroot.  Install pkgstriptranslations, pkgbinarymangler, and pkg-create-dbgsym :)
<dholbach> persia: KVM instance, install pkgstriptranslations. build :-p
<persia> dholbach: I guess.  I'd hate to clean the kvm each time, or wait for boot.
<dholbach> *shrug*
 * persia doesn't really see the use case for building without all three manglers for an Ubuntu upload.
<Laney> persia: I've never actually heard about these. Can you point me in the direction of some docs?
<persia> Laney: Not really.  You might look in /usr/share/doc/$(package) after installing them.  They are special build-manglers that run on the Ubuntu buildds.
<persia> pkgstriptranslations integrates with the Ubuntu language packs, pkgbinarymangler does Maintainer and a couple other bits.  pkg-create-dbgsym wraps dh_strip to create the separate -dbgsym packages.
<Laney> persia: Right. Do I have to do anything special to build with them?
<persia> Laney: Install them in your build chroot (or KVM instance, or whatever).
<Laney> I think I can manage that ;)
<geser> dholbach: don't forget to enable pkgstriptranslations inside your chroot else it does nothing (like pkg-create-dbgsym)
<persia> geser: How?  pkg-create-dbgsym seems to work for me, and I don't remember enabling it.  What must be done?
<soren> Nothing. pkg-create-dbgsym diverts dh_strip and does its thing.
 * persia is baffled by conflicting information, and wishes a nice summary to pass on to others
<Laney> I think you have to enable pkgstriptranslations, at least according to its man page.
<geser> persia: right, pkg-create-dbgsym doesn't need enabling but pkgstriptranslations (see /etc/pkgbinarymangler/striptranslations.conf)
<Laney> Ah, good job I did try it with that, it still FTBFS with pkgstriptranslations on ;)
<persia> Laney: Excellent.  Now you have an issue to solve, rather than confusion :)
<slavik> I have an archive that has to be extracted into / to be installed, what is the best way to make a deb out of such an archive?
<slavik> it is the nvidia cg toolkit
<slavik> nvm, found it in repo
<bersace> Seems like ubuntu does not build anymore ppc packages :(
 * bersace have to switch back to debian
<Hobbsee> bersace: it's on ports.ubuntu.com
<Hobbsee> has been for a few releases.
<bersace> thx
<persia> geser: Sorry.  Lost sync.  Thanks :)
<ScottK> What's the process for getting a wiki page deleted?
<ScottK> It's in h.u.c/community if that makes a difference.
<mathiaz> ScottK: try to ask ubuntu-doc
<mathiaz> ScottK: I think only the admins of a wiki can delete a wiki page
<mok0> Anyone can delete a wiki page
<ScottK> mok0: h.u.c has some restricted permissions.  I can't delete it.
<ScottK> mathiaz: Thanks.
<mok0> ScottK: Ah, that, you probably have to be a member of the doc team
<ScottK> I'm guessing.  I'm going to follow mathiaz's suggestion and see.
<mok0> yeah
<highvoltage> howdy.
<\sh> who is Matvey Kozhev <sikon@ubuntu.com> on irc...
<LucidFox> \sh> me
<\sh> LucidFox, why didn't you merge libpcre3 first? subtitleeditor is a sync
<LucidFox> libpcre3 is in main
<\sh> LucidFox, so?
<LucidFox> I've reopened a merge request for it
<\sh> LucidFox, the problem is, with the libpcre3 merge we could have synced subtitleeditor..and you never asked me before ...
<LucidFox> The libpcre3 versioning isn't even needed in Debian - it was temporarily there as a workaround for an ABI breakage, the Debian maintainer was supposed to remove it and indicated it in debian/changelog and for some reason didn't actually do it
<LucidFox> Perhaps we should ask Debian to actually remove the versioned dependency, and then sync
<\sh> the other way would have been easier...but please ping me the next time you take a merge/sync package I already tested ;)
<LucidFox> \sh> okay... I'm sorry
<\sh> LucidFox, no need to be sorry...
<slytherin> geser: FYI ... I had uploaded the updated xml-commons-external to wrong host yesterday. I have uploaded it today to revu.
<Laney> pochu: How did you build gnome-lokkit? I can't get it to FTBFS...
<pochu> Laney: I used this debdiff, and then dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc in Hardy. http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/gnome-lokkit_0.50.22-7.2.debian-ubuntu-changes.debdiff
<Laney> Ah, I'd only tried it in pbuilder/intrepid VM.
<Laney> pochu: I can't get it to FTBFS :(
<pochu> Laney: with my debdiff?
<Laney> pochu: Is it the same one I put on the bug?
<pochu> Laney: nope
<Laney> I downloaded it from LP
<Laney> Oh!
<pochu> I said it in my comment
<Laney> I don't see it
<pochu> Your debdiff has changes to config.guess, config.sub, Makefile...
<pochu> I've removed them
<Laney> I just thought you were asking me to do that
<Laney> pochu: You killed the change to Makefile.am which is necessary
<pochu> Laney: you didn't mention it in debian/changelog :P
<Laney> I did
<Laney>     - debian/gnome-lokkit.files, Makefile.am:
<Laney>       + Install .desktop file to the correct location
<pochu> bah
<pochu> my fault then
<pochu> Laney: can you attach a good debdiff?
<Laney> pochu: Killing the config changes and updating the maintainer?
<pochu> yep
<Laney> Sure
<pochu> and I'll upload
<Laney> Is just a debian-ubuntu diff OK?
<Laney> Or do you want both?
<pochu> debian-ubuntu
<Laney> OK
 * Laney does it now
<Laney> pochu: Done
<Laney> FYI, I asked in here and was told to leave those config changes in...
<Laney> But never mind
<norsetto> any motu-sru member around?
<norsetto> come on, be brave, we know you are lurking ....
<siretart> norsetto: AFAIUI, the team needs reinforcments
<norsetto> siretart:  AFAIUI, we need a team ;-)
<siretart> can someone please point me to the 'initial mail' that dholbach  is referring to in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-May/025388.html?
<siretart> alternatively actually answering my question is okay as well
<siretart> ;)
<norsetto> siretart: this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-May/025383.html ?
<norsetto> siretart: btw, it was good meeting you at UDS!
<siretart> norsetto: and it was great to meet you!
<siretart> norsetto: does that mail answer my question?
<norsetto> siretar: I don't know, but its his first email
<siretart> norsetto: I mailed him in private for clarification now
<norsetto> siretart: if you wrote that in German you cheated ;-)
<pochu> Laney: ideally the package should clean the stuff it touches in the clean target
<pochu> Laney: but it doesn't for the autoreconf changes
<pochu> anyway, uploaded :)
<pochu> thanks for the work
<norsetto> Hola pochu
<Laney> Thanks pochu
<pochu> hola norsetto :)
 * slytherin wonders why motu mailing list is receiving too many "why don't you update package x to latest version" mails.
 * pochu is tempted to reply 'why dont you do it yourself and submit a patch?' ;)
 * norsetto is glad that the ubuntu-motu m.l. is heavily spam-filtered by his ISP
<slytherin> pochu: I think there is a need to make it clear what is purpose of motu ml. Also people don't seem to understand update policies. They expect every new version to land in whatever ubuntu version they are using.
<siretart> norsetto: I did. why? ;)
<norsetto> slytherin: since we are discussing this, can you guys please update foo-scit to version 2.1.0? I really need that in gutsy
<norsetto> siretart: verboden! :-)
<siretart> :-)
<slytherin> :-D
<norsetto> really, I mean it, I'll just drink a beer while you do that, and if you don't I'll go back to windoze
<slytherin> norsetto: In any case you will get headache. :-P
<ScottK> I particularly love the do X or I'll got back to windows posts.
<ScottK> Go ahead and shoot yourself in the head, it's not my problem.  In Ubuntu I've promised to be nice, not care about users.
<norsetto> hey scottk, you ARE nice :-)
<ScottK> I just don't respond well to threats.
<ScottK> Particularly not ones like that.
 * norsetto hands over a budweiser to scottk
<ScottK> norsetto: I'm back in the US.  It's a very different experience here.  Imgine "not very good".
 * siretart hugs ScottK
<ScottK> Thanks.
 * norsetto everybody who is back from uds!
<siretart> how was your flight home?
<ScottK> No trouble at all.  I even got my bad despite going through Terminal 5 at Heathrow.
<ScottK> bad/bag
<siretart> ScottK: whoooho! :)
<ScottK> siretart: Was there a gobby document on the documentation process discussion the cjwatson led the last day of UDS?
<siretart> there was, I saved a copy
<ScottK> Do you recall the name?  I'm looking now and can't find it.
 * norsetto -> dinner
<siretart> policy-and-standards
<siretart> I managed to locate it in gobby
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-May/025390.html for those interested in the recent developer/bugsquad flailing.
<\sh> ScottK, http://www.sourcecode.de/content/phyton-world
 * ScottK heh's
<jpds> \sh: Did he know he got it wrong? Or is it deliberate?
<\sh> hidden bugs?
<\sh> jpds, the orga of the fair did print them totally wrong
<\sh> but it's a nice one actually...
<jpds> \sh: hehe, and he has the right spelling right behind him...
<\sh> "Phyton the world" (Curtesy ManOWar), "Don't talk about the Phyt Club"
<\sh> now you know why launchpad is closed source...
<yannick> Does someone know how I can fix this: "dpkg-genchanges: not including original source code in upload"?
<jpds> yannick: use -S with debuild
<yannick> jpds, I did
<jpds> yannick: erm, -sa then
<yannick> jpds, -sa brings another error
<jpds> yannick: did you do debuild -S -sa? Pastebin the error at paste.ubuntu.com
<yannick> jpds, I did debuild -sa, and it failed, now with debuild -S -sa it seems ok, thank you :)
<\sh> ScottK, is this proposal agreeable by lp people?
<ScottK> \sh: They were in the room and didn't scream.  Beyond that I'm not sure.
<jpds> yannick: you're welcome :)
<\sh> ScottK, if it's ok for all parties involved...go
<ScottK> \sh: Thanks.  We'll see what happens on the ML for a while.
<\sh> ScottK, or LP Devs are adding some worktask module
 * RainCT doesn't really like it but he is just an insignificant dev and will shut up :P
<ScottK> RainCT: Don't want you to shut up.
<sebner> ScottK: courier? \o/
<\sh> RainCT, raise your voice and your critics...it's more important then you think
<ScottK> RainCT: We're caught between triagers not knowing what to keep their hands off of and insistence that it's to hard for them to figure it out.
<ScottK> sebner: Maybe tomorrow.
<sebner> ScottK: I'm just curious if -3 will arrive earlier ^^
<ScottK> RainCT: Please propose alternatives if you have them.  This idea is not perfect, but it's the best one I've heard so far.
<ScottK> sebner: Probably not.  He's usually pretty slow about such things.
<sebner> ScottK: well you konw -2 arrived not that slowly
<ScottK> Usually when that happens something was really messed up.
 * ScottK is still trying to get back on the right time zone.
<RainCT> Heh. Nah, if you're happy with it I won't object.. But I don't think it's a good idea to restrict access to bugs to developers (or people having joined a special group) only, and neither do I really see an use case for this (it shouldn't be that difficult to learn that bugs with "sync" or "merge" in the title shouldn't be touched.. or am I missing something?)
<sebner> ScottK: ^^. no rush =) Just want to get this done *soon* =)
<\sh> RainCT, those reports are not bugs in the general meaning of "bug reports"
<\sh> RainCT, they are workflow reports...like "sync this", "merge that" , "do this"...
<ScottK> RainCT: It's also removals, main inclusion reports, and others too.
<\sh> RainCT, and yes it's difficult for new triagers to determine the diff between "package X is broken" and "please sync..bla " wishlist bug
<\sh> RainCT, it's a layer 8 problem and sometimes for repeating violations a layer 9 bug
<pwnguin> why file a bug for syncs?
<RainCT> \sh: (answering to your first msg) yes, sure. call them what you want, but I think people should be able to see them - I guess this is going to give a lot of "please upgrade to new version" duplicates if syncs/merges are hidden
<pwnguin> the kernel team sends an emai
<pwnguin> email
<pwnguin> "please pull blah"
<\sh> RainCT, people should be able to not assign randomly other people to bugs...but they do...
<\sh> RainCT, so we need to make somehow sure, that they won't get their hands on those things...
<RainCT> pwnguin: because by mail it would become a mess.. with requests needing sponsors and everything.
<\sh> RainCT, or we find another system to deal with workflow things
<RainCT> pwnguin: although if LP would implement a proper page for sync requests and that like that would be better, of course
<pwnguin> indeed, it would be nice to seperate bugs from tasks
<ScottK> pwnguin: That's the path to an archive admin doing the syncs.
<pwnguin> ScottK: email?
<pwnguin> ScottK: or seperating them from bugs?
<norsetto> what about un ubuntu-dev (or ubuntu-motu) project? To be used solely for all the motu stuff.
<ScottK> pwnguin: We've got a process that's worked for a long time, I think disrupting it isn't a great plan.
<pwnguin> ScottK: i think unifying the hundred processes at some point might be a good idea
<ScottK> norsetto: It's not just MOTU.  It's all Ubuntu developers.
<\sh> it's sad that we have hundreds of processes :(
<norsetto> scottk: ok, then ubuntu-dev, to be used solely for ubuntu devs stuff
<pwnguin> its annoying to me to have to go out and learn whatever team process is being used when i want to file / triage / fix bugs =(
<pwnguin> "oh well confirmed means we've accepted to fix it"
<ScottK> pwnguin: Kernel team is AFAIK the only one with really different team policies.
<\sh> pwnguin, that's a problem being a) a user b) someone with knowledge and c) the guy with the power to fix
<ScottK> norsetto: One problem with a separate project is then merge bugs can't be closed by an upload.
<pwnguin> ScottK: doesn't Kubuntu have something different too?
<norsetto> scottk: why not?
<\sh> pwnguin, while a) is a must, b) is not needed to be a bug triager and c) well, this really needs some nerves ;)
<ScottK> norsetto: Because it's not a bug in Ubuntu.
<ScottK> pwnguin: Not radically different.  It does have a few differences due to upstream.
 * RainCT -> away (brb)
<ScottK> norsetto: Changelog can only close a bug that's open against that package in Ubuntu.
<norsetto> scottk: oh, you mean the LP: #xxxxx tag ... hmmm, I thought that worked on bug numbers, and those are unique
<ScottK> The but has to be open against the distro/package or it doesn't work.
<ScottK> but/bug
<ScottK> Which is why needs-packaging bugs won't auto close.
<\sh> norsetto, no....(LP: #xxxx) closes only bugs which are filed against packages in ubuntu...but not in e.g. baltix
<norsetto> well, I 'm not familiar with the intricacies of LP but I would have thoguht that a package is a package
<\sh> norsetto, that's why you see the whole crap of baltix bugs, which are already fixed/invalid in ubuntu
<\sh> norsetto, no a package can be in ubuntu, baltix, nexenta
<ScottK> norsetto: Think about the case where a bug affects multiple packages.  Closes in changelog needs to just mark the right package fixed.
<\sh> and you file reports against distro+package not only package
<pwnguin> since each repackaging can introduce bugs
<pwnguin> its the same reason we dont just file everything upstream or to debian ;)
<norsetto> so, what is the idea, to use a special team which is "private"?
<ScottK> So that bugsquad can't see the workflow bugs and then can't mess them up.
<norsetto> I must admit, it happened only once to me, are we sure this is not blowing out of proportions?
<\sh> anyways preparing for linuxtag
<\sh> cu tomorrow
<sebner> \sh: hf
<norsetto> \sh: gute nacht
<sebner> norsetto: \o/
<norsetto> sebner: \O/
<sebner> norsetto: buona notte :P
<norsetto> sebner: fiorellino ....
<sebner> norsetto: un regalo per me?
<norsetto> sebner: we better stop speaking Italian before scottk scold us ...
<sebner> norsetto: heh
 * norsetto wonders if it is better to upload a package now, knowing it will ftbfs for hppa, or wait until (hopefully before the end of the year) hppa deps will be available
<ScottK> norsetto: I'd go ahead.  It can always be retried if hppa magically grows the needed bits.
<norsetto> scottk: yes, I'm very tempted
 * ScottK is not kidding.  There's no point in depriving all other archs of something.  
<ScottK> As an example, java is totally broken on hppa.  Should we upload no java apps until that's fixed?
<pwnguin> i thought there was talk about dropping hppa?
<ScottK> No.  It was dropped and then came back.  It's not official though.
<ScottK> It was (IIRC) sparc that was just dropped as an official arch.
<norsetto> scottk: I guess that will be in deps_wait state?
<ScottK> In theory.  In some cases packages are there, but not working.
 * ScottK heads out for a while.
<\sh> fck fck fck fck
<sebner> \sh: you are missing a "u" right? ^^
<\sh> sebner, yes..
<sebner> \sh: could also be a "s" ^^
<\sh> now I have real problems...trying to sing "whisky in the jar" with kwwii won't be fun
<emgent> heheh hi \sh :)
<crimsun> \sh: have you been experiencing problems w/ PulseAudio and non-Free Flash?
<\sh> crimsun, sometimes
<crimsun> \sh: anything more deterministic than that?
<sebner> crimsun: pulseaudio + flash 10 is rocking and working but still crashing ^^
<crimsun> sebner: with/out libflashsupport?
<\sh> crimsun, at work, without libflashsupport == no sound when using PA
<\sh> crimsun, still on flash9
<RainCT> actually, what was the rationale to switch to pulseaudio?
<sebner> crimsun: with. not possible without since it flash depends on it
<\sh> sw mixing for cheap sound cards
<\sh> sebner, it doesn't anymore
<sebner> RainCT: hrhr
<crimsun> \sh: right, known.  If you have a chance, please test flashplugin-nonfree, libasound2, and libasound2-plugins from intrepid.  You'll need to remove libflashsupport and also run `asoundconf set-pulseaudio'.
<sebner> \sh: hmm?
<crimsun> sebner: see what I mentioned immediately above to \sh, please.
 * RainCT switched back to ALSA on all his Ubuntu installation, because with PulseAudio only one application could use the sound card
<\sh> crimsun, any ppa stuff for hardy backports? or should I just recompile it for hardy?
<sebner> crimsun: but when I remove libflashsupport it also removes flashplugin-nonfree ;)
<crimsun> \sh: recompiling will suffice.
<\sh> crimsun, just a note: I can only test it after LT
<crimsun> sebner: hence why I mentioned you need the intrepid versions of those packages.
<\sh> crimsun, good...this can be done during LT..
<crimsun> it is extremely unfortunate that the Flash 10 beta was released after 8.04.
<\sh> crimsun, no :)
<crimsun> anyhow, we don't need libflashsupport anymore, and I intend to make it disappear in 8.10.
<\sh> crimsun, flash 10 beta has other flaws do they ship now vp6 encoding with the flash plugin?
<sebner> crimsun: I'm using intrepid ;)
<crimsun> \sh: no idea WRT vp6, and I'm aware of the focus issues.
<\sh> crimsun, vp6 encoding was promised for flash 10 at the end of this year
<\sh> would make my life much easier
<crimsun> sebner: the next upload of alsa-plugins likely will Conflict with libflashsupport (with the corresponding change to flashplugin-nonfree's source package, of course)
<sebner> crimsun: nice to know, when to expect?
<\sh> ah woman is coming
<crimsun> sebner: no ETA, I need to discuss it with others.  However, if you're currently running intrepid, you can already get rid of libflashsupport.  Just install libasound2-plugins and run `asoundconf set-pulseaudio'.
<crimsun> (and then remove libflashsupport)
<sebner> crimsun: that will stop firefox from crashing?
<crimsun> sebner: it has in my unscientific/non-rigourous tests.
<crimsun> bug reports otherwise are, of course, appreciated.
<crimsun> (in which case you'd file against flashplugin-nonfree source and alsa-plugins source)
<sebner> crimsun: I'll give it a try =) thanks
<crimsun> thank you for testing!
<sebner> crimsun: a pleasure. Now I'll annoy youtube =)
<sebner> crimsun: I just tested ~15 vids but it seems to be rockstable. thanks for that =) I'll give it a harder testing tomorrow :)
<crimsun> sebner: thanks for the feedback
<sebner> crimsun: is also positive feedback a good feedback? Nothing to fix is boring :P
<crimsun> sebner: there's plenty to fix, e.g., how to get this workaround into hardy-*.
<sebner> crimsun: that's something I wanted to ask =)
<crimsun> unfortunately, it requires significant updates
<crimsun> namely, you need alsa-lib 1.0.16 and Debian-specific changes to alsa-plugins 1.0.16
<sebner> crimsun: nothing for 8.04.1/2 ?
<crimsun> and there are instances documented on Debian BTS (for alsa-lib) where 1.0.16 breaks a lot of apps compiled against older -lib versions
<crimsun> as you might can see, putting them in via -proposed/-updates is not feasible.
<crimsun> sebner: if Flash 10 final is available by the time 8.04.1 is slated, we might can do a newer flashplugin-nonfree, but the libflashsupport that we have will still affect us.  Thus, we should not go the libflashsupport route for hardy-*.
<sebner> crimsun: I see. damn
<crimsun> yes, it's quite fun.  And not in the hug sense.
<sebner> crimsun: but flash 10 is really a step in the right direction
<pwnguin> how so?
<crimsun> pwnguin: I'm missing some context for your question.
<pwnguin> sebner: how is flash10 a step in the right direction
<crimsun> ah.
<pwnguin> ?
<sebner> pwnguin: it's working with pulseaudio ^^ flash is still crap though xD
<crimsun> well, if nothing else, it abuses the ALSA API less.
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> i should try gnash out again
<sebner> pwnguin: well if it leaves the beta status I'll too
<pwnguin> but you'll try flash10 in beta status?
<sebner> pwnguin: what's the best if you use intrepid, firefox b5? Yes flash 10 beta
<sebner> xD
<pwnguin> well, I don't know about intrepid, but if neither of us have even tried gnash recently, I don't see the point of calling flash10 "best"
<sebner> pwnguin: not best, it's clearly better than flash9
<RAOF> crimsun: Were you doing anything about the lib{32,64}asound2-plugins debdiff on the BTS?  It occurs to me that I haven't heard anything about it.  Maybe it's time for a ping?
<RAOF> Alternatively, this could be me once again mistakenly assuming that the BTS subscribes you to any bug you comment on.
<crimsun> RAOF: no, I am subscribed, and thanks for pinging.
<crimsun> I'll get with Elimar about it
<sebner> gn8 folks :)
 * RAOF goes back to unbreaking his laptop.
<RAOF> Turns out there are a number of flaws in our netboot image :|
<norsetto> good night all
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-27
<ryanakca> Is there anything I can to to have a local cache of packages for sbuild &/or pbuilder? I sadly have to rebuild a few times (trial and error, trying to get this patch to work), but I hate having to dowload 54.3MB from the archives every time, and I'm sure the archive maintainers hate my doing so as well...
<RAOF> Squid can be good.
<RAOF> There are also apt-specific caches (apt-cacher, apt-proxy, apt-zeroconf)
<RAOF> There's probably also a way to make sbuild use a local shared cache (there certainly is for pbuilder, but my knowledge has atrophied).
<ryanakca> RAOF: hmm... thanks :)
 * ScottK learns about facebook.
<ScottK> (teenagers)
<nixternal> hehe
<crimsun> the wonderous journey of facebook.  heh.
 * ajmitch reads up on the latest flamefests
<StevenK> ajmitch: -devel?
<ajmitch> -bugsquad, at least
<ajmitch> related threads :)
 * ajmitch seems to get the impression that some people think that all developers are paid, everyone else are volunteers
 * ScottK refrains from comment.
<ajmitch> ScottK: that's a surprise :)
 * ScottK is still about 50% on Prague time and it's nearly 5AM there.
<ajmitch> to be honest, I think that the proposal of LP changes to hide certain bugs being a bit stupid
<ScottK> Well every time I suggested "Don't mark no bugs you don't understand", which seemed to me to be the obvious answer, I got a lot of pushback.
<ScottK> At least Hobbsee's "Special bugs, don't touch" guidelines are back on the How To Triage page (even if they are marked draft).
<ajmitch> so instead we end up with a solution that assumes that all bugsquad members are drooling idiots who'd ignore any tags/titles/other glaring things telling them don't touch
<ScottK> Apparently.
<ScottK> Part of the problem though is that tag manipulation/list usage is a real PITA.
<ScottK> Personally I don't use tags for anything.
<ajmitch> because there are probably several hundred tags?
<ScottK> That and getting a list of the bugs with a particular tag is not straightfoward.
<ScottK> And it's slow.
<ajmitch> the bug title is probably a more obvious thing for triagers to look at & know that they can move on
<ScottK> Unfortunately there are several different possible titles.
<ScottK> IIRC it was declared to hard (this is mostly heno talking, but other people involved in bugsquad there too).
<ajmitch> a prefix, perhaps
<ScottK> Dunno.  I feel like I've done my part.  Those were by far the least fun sessions in UDS (it took 2).
<ajmitch> I bet
<artfwo> When dealing with these packages: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_updated.html is it okay to request a sync from http://getdeb.net ?
<RAOF> artfwo: Almost certainly not.  The prerequisite for appearing on getdeb.net appears to be 'built once, somewhere'.
<ScottK> artfwo: We've asked the getdeb folks to work with us together on packaging.  They declined because it's too hard (apparently) to make correct packages.
<RAOF> While some, many, or indeed all packages may be better than that, it would require essentially the same review as a new package.
<artfwo> I see. So a new upstream would still to require repackaging for Ubuntu even if it's on getdeb?
<jdong> artfwo: getdeb packages often do not comply with Ubuntu/Debian quality control guidelines
<jdong> artfwo: their new version packaging is rarely a derivative of existing Ubuntu packaging; little to no effort is made to preserve compatibility either...
<Hobbsee> morning all
<RAOF> Howdie Hobbsee.
<RAOF> artfwo: In short, it's almost certainly easier to just uupdate the current package than to pull something from getdeb.
<ajmitch> good afternoon Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> ScottK: simple solutions aren't allowed.
<Hobbsee> apparently
<Hobbsee> or ones that require thought and education.
 * wgrant grumbles at the brewing Bugsquad v. ubuntu-dev case.
<ajmitch> wgrant: exciting stuff, no?
<wgrant> Perhaps.
<wgrant> Making them private is wrong, but perhaps getting LP to add a 'workflow' flag... But that would take years.
<ajmitch> and it probably still wouldn't be the right solution
<Hobbsee> someone could point out that a whole bunch of developers are volunteers too, and so playing the "hey, you're having a go at poor volunteers" card does not help.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: OTOH, you have to accept that the general ideals for ubuntu triaging and development now seem to be focussed on getting more people who are active, and not only allowing those who are *competent* and active.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: and changing that will be very difficult, because we do actually need the people
<Hobbsee> so if they get most stuff right, then tha'ts probably good enough - we just hope that they don't get important stuff wrong.
<btakita> Hello, would a REVU admin please re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring? Thanks :)
 * Hobbsee tries
<Hobbsee> hmm.  well that's broken.
<RAOF> Ah, so much fun :)
<wgrant> Hobbsee: What's broken?
<wgrant> Did I not give you enough permissions?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: su to my user, change my shell to zsh, and run revukey.
<Hobbsee> tia.
<dholbach> good morning
<wgrant> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hiya wgrant
 * wgrant gets claustrophobic with that time over on the RHS.
<Hobbsee> haha
<wgrant> Hobbsee: It seems to be working fine...
<Hobbsee> hmmm.  wasn't when i tried it.
<Hobbsee> will have to look later
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Did you use 'sudo -u revu1 /srv/revu-production/scripts/revu-key update'?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: if that's what my alias says it is, yes.
 * Hobbsee grepped, and used the corresponding command
 * Hobbsee dies of frozen.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: You seem to have called it with 'updae' last time.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: way cool.  no idea how.
<Traveler3> trying to install ubuntu on my laptop. But all I get is grub..
<soren> ls -l
<soren> ...
<dholbach> total 1
<dholbach> drwx------  3 soren soren 4096 2008-05-22 10:28 pron
<soren> Eek.
<dholbach> ;-)
<StevenK> Bwahaha
 * broonie always used to nam temporary folders "porn" since I knew several of the admins.
<broonie> Often they were full of things like tutorial answers.
<RAOF> StevenK: If you're still interested in sponsoring some uploads to debian, I've got a couple of things on m.d.o and on the mentors list.  No one seems to be biting, though :)
<StevenK> RAOF: Tell me why my HAL changes don't work, and then I'll consider it. :-P
<StevenK> Although, I'm about to go to my mother-in-laws, so ...
<RAOF> I think your HAL changes don't work because of a fundamental personality discontinuity.
<directhex> daisy, daisy, give me your answer do...
<RAOF> There's no urgency; I'll just check if you're still interested every now and then :)
<emgent> morning
<Iulian> Heya
<ScottK> One statistic from the discussion about workflow bugs at UDS is that they represent ~1 percent of new bugs filed.
<siretart> ScottK: is that surprising?
<ScottK> Actually I was suprised it was that much.
<siretart> well. we have scripts that help with filing them
<norsetto> howdy dowdy
<sebner> huhu norsetto =)
<norsetto> of course, sebner is always here
<norsetto> sebner: don't you have school!?
<sebner> norsetto: of course. my life consists of school, ubuntu and nexuiz :P
<sebner> norsetto: for the weeks until my oral exams start just the important subjects. 2-3 hours a day ;)
 * ScottK does the clamav victory dance.
<emgent> hahah :)
<ScottK> One and only one clamav version in -updates or -release for all released/supported Ubuntu versions.
<ScottK> That only took a year to get done.
<Amaranth> Didn't they just release a new clamav a couple days ago?
<ScottK> They released 0.93 just before Hardy and there's an RC for 0.93.1.
<Amaranth> Dang, I was hoping for a "damnit" response. :P
<ScottK> That's an intrepid problem for now.  At the moment, I'm patching 0.92.1 with security fixes.
<emgent> I go to work, bye people.
<Amaranth> see ya emgent
<sebner> emgent: bye bye
<ScottK> The key is having one 0.92.1 configuration I only need to figure the patches for once.
<ScottK> see ya emgent.
<sebner> huhu jono mok0
<sebner> mok0: what's now about the icons for the universe-group. can also others attach a picture, when is the election,.. ?
<mok0> sebner: errr, asaik it is decided on a meeting on the 31st
<mok0> sebner: but you can surely attach more pictures!
<mok0> sebner: just make another "section" with your entry
<mok0> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Emblems
<mok0> (I'd forgotten where it was :-)
<sebner> mok0: k, thanks =)
<mok0> sebner: looking forward to seeing your contrib
<sebner> mok0: well, not mine but a friend of mine likes to do that stuff ^^
<mok0> sebner: cool. We need to get your friend involved in more artwork, then
<geser> is the motu-sru team still operational? how long does it usually take for a SRU ACK?
<pochu> geser: a lot, it's better to ping some member on IRC ;)
<persia> geser: Last I heard statistics, it was about a week.  Since then, the team has gotten less active.  Hence the call for renewal.
<emgent> hello people
<norsetto> emgent: that was quick
<emgent> norsetto: o/
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<norsetto> heya sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi norsetto
<norsetto> sistpoty|work: we missed you in Prague
<sistpoty|work> heh
<mok0> Has there been talk about revu-days?
 * sistpoty|work is needing to take down REVU for a few minutes, to fix bug #234896
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 234896 in revu "Upload does not get accepted unless original source is excluded" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/234896
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> huhu bddebian
<bddebian> Hello sebner
<kirkland> zul: hey, i merged php5-5.2.6, builds cleanly in my local environment on amd64
<kirkland> zul: it's in my home dir on chinstrap, if you want to review it
<zul> sure..
<kirkland> zul: i pushed to my ppa to test the build on other arches too
<kirkland> zul: unfortunately, it doesn't look like Launchpad PPA's are building intrepid packages yet
<kirkland> zul: if you review what I put on chinstrap, and give me feedback, i'll fix it up.  otherwise, perhaps you can upload
<sistpoty|work> ok, revu should be back accepting uploads... can anyone do a test upload please?
<tbielawa> I'll do one
<sistpoty|work> thanks tbielawa
<tbielawa> sure thing sistpoty|work
<tbielawa> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/15097/
<tbielawa> fail
<persia> tbielawa: Try with ftp rather than scp (unless I'm missing something)
<sistpoty|work> tbielawa: 17  Uploading to revu (via scp to revu.ubuntuwire.com) (you'll need to use ftp in dput.cf)
<sistpoty|work> heh, thanks persia
<sebner> aloha afflux ;)
<afflux> morning sebner ;)
<tbielawa> sistpoty|work, Successfully uploaded packages.
<sistpoty|work> tbielawa: cool, thanks
<mok0> What is the default xinetd server on Ubuntu now?
<mok0> inetd
<soren> openbsd-inetd, I believe.
<mok0> soren: I believe its xinetd... (?)
<soren> It is not.
<mok0> soren: hm. It should be
<mok0> soren: Just so I don't need to ask another time, where can I see what packages are in the base set?
<zul> kirkland: you built the php5 stuff in an intrepid chroot right?
<hggdh> siretart: hello
<kirkland> zul: umm, i built using "debuild" on a hardy box
<zul> kirkland: ah ok ill do a build test with an intrepid chroot just in case
<zul> kirkland: because im paranoid :)
<ScottK> kirkland: You really want to look at building inside a clean chroot using pbuilder, sbuild or similar.  Eventually it will lead to tears if you don't.
<ScottK> kirkland: For an easy way to get started see pbuilder-dist in ubuntu-dev-tools.
<sistpoty|work> tbielawa: cool, everything seems to have worked... thanks for testing :)
<tbielawa> you're welcoem
<kirkland> ScottK: thanks, will do
<kirkland> I think I'm going to rebuild my laptop today using LVM
<rockstar> kirkland, use the alternate cd, and life is easy with LVM
<LaserJock> siretart: lol, we're going to have an Ubuntu Developer's Reference?
<LaserJock> siretart: I started working on one almost 2 years ago I think :-) I hope it actually makes it this time
<siretart> hggdh: hey there!
<siretart> LaserJock: is it what became the Packaging Guide?
<LaserJock> siretart: no
<LaserJock> siretart: after the packaging guide I started looking at doing a UDR
<LaserJock> iwj did a spec on it for dapper I think
<siretart> I remember that
<siretart> do you remember why it failed that time?
<LaserJock> but in the end mdz said that we should just use wiki pages :-)
<LaserJock> that's when we got w.u.c/UbuntuDevelopment
<LaserJock> one big issue was if we should maintain it as a patch to the Debian Developers Reference
<LaserJock> I spent a lot of time figuring out how we could do that
<LaserJock> but I suspect it's much better for us to write an entirely new document
<zul> kirkland: it doesnt build on intrepid because net-snmp hasnt been merged yet
<kirkland> zul: ah
<hggdh> siretart: sorry and all of that.... Thank you for a ray of good sense
<hggdh> siretart: re. your Debugging XineLib: we would like to reformat it into the Debugging* format
<hggdh> siretart: and publish under wiki/ubuntu/Debugging
<sebner> mok0: nice mail, a sponsors adventure? ^^
<mok0> sebner: a sponsors sigh
<sebner> ^^
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
 * mok0 -> dinner
<jdong> lol, ALMOST got a ticket today heading up to port huron :)
<jdong> urgh ssh lag sucks :)
<jdong> just had three ssh sessions to the same screen reconnect... weird combination of backlogged keystrokes ensue :)
<Riddell> superm1: what's the fglrx-installer package?
<mario_limonciell> Riddell, the results of the discussion at UDS
<mario_limonciell> to move fglrx and nvidia out of LRM
<mario_limonciell> starting with the next AMD release you'll be able to spit out source packages from the ".run" file that they distribute
<norsetto> oh $DEITY, I can retry builds now ....
<mario_limonciell> that just need a dch -e to mangle the changelog, but they should be sufficient for the archive
<Riddell> norsetto: how?
<norsetto> Riddell: got a retry botton in the build page
<Riddell> mario_limonciell: hmm, where's the licence?
<mario_limonciell> Riddell, usr/share/doc I believe in the source package
<mario_limonciell> its the file that is excluded in debian/rules from getting installed (since its contents are copied to debian/copyright)
<Riddell> ok, accepting
<mario_limonciell> great thanks
 * geser looks for a ~motu-sru member and sees jdong
<geser> jdong: have you some time to ack to SRUs? bug #197216 and bug #232480
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 197216 in pycaml "[hardy] Package pycaml has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197216
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 232480 in apache2-mpm-itk "[SRU] apache2-mpm-itk uninstallable with apache2.2-common from hardy-proposed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/232480
<ScottK> leonel: I got the clamav 0.92.1 packages from feisty/gutsy-backports copied to -updates, so no need to patch feisty/gutsy separately any more.
<leonel> ScottK: I saw the mails  in the morning   this is  GOOD ! thank  you
<ScottK> leonel: Thanks for all your help.  Clamav 0.93.1 RC is out, so I expect a new wave of security patches to do.
<leonel> I haven't seen any CVE  yet
<leonel> ScottK: remember if you need help to test any backport   just let me know ..
<ScottK> We won't until the final release I don't think.
<ScottK> leonel: WIll do.
<Zelut> I built a package for my PPA with CDBS and now I can't seem to recreate the steps.
<Zelut> anyone here to give me a few tips on the CDBS voodoo?
<Zelut> I'm getting /usr/share/doc/app : no such file or directory, but it is there via a relative path from debian/
<Zelut> pastebin of my build attempt if anyone cares to take a look: http://pastebin.ca/1031257
<emgent> DktrKranz o/
<DktrKranz> we emgent
<geser> ah another ~motu-sru member
<geser> DktrKranz: Hi, have you some time to ack two SRUs? bug #197216 and bug #232480
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 197216 in pycaml "[hardy] Package pycaml has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197216
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 232480 in apache2-mpm-itk "[SRU] apache2-mpm-itk uninstallable with apache2.2-common from hardy-proposed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/232480
<laga> i also need two ACKs from motu-sru: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythplugins/+bug/220087
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 220087 in mythplugins "Some mythplugins packages fail to configure if /var/lib/mythtv NFS mounted" [Undecided,New]
<laga> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythbuntu-control-centre/+bug/221921
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221921 in mythbuntu-control-centre "SRU: progress bar oddities break creation of diskless clients" [Undecided,New]
<laga> it'd be great if someone could take a look as they've been open for quite  some time
<DktrKranz> sorry for this delay, I'm mostly offline, so I can't process queue as I should do :(
<DktrKranz> but I'll have a look at these
<DktrKranz> geser, is apache2-common 2.2.8-1ubuntu0.1 in -updates?
<geser> apache2.2-common | 2.2.8-1ubuntu0.1 | http://de.archive.ubuntu.com hardy-updates/main Packages
<geser> yes
<DktrKranz> thanks, it took ages to me
<DktrKranz> geser, apache2-mpm-itk ACKed, does it need to be fixed for intrepid too?
<geser> DktrKranz: yes, I will upload a rebuild soon (I guess it will get rebuild several times till intrepid release).
<DktrKranz> geser, cool. thanks. pycaml ACKed too, be sure to fix intrepid task if needed.
<norsetto> motu-sru! motu-sru! me too! me too!
 * RainCT is bored right now and could be convinced to sponsor something
<DktrKranz> norsetto, heh, gimme some DSL, please! :D
<norsetto> DktrKranz: bad idea that to leave telecom, you cheapo ;-)
<geser> DktrKranz: already done (fixed pycaml is in intrepid)
<bobbo> RainCT: i have a merge that needs sponsored? Bug #235050
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 235050 in bzflag "Please merge bzflag 2.0.10.20071115+nmu1 (universe) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/235050
<DktrKranz> norsetto, naah, I had several troubles with telecoZ
<norsetto> DktrKranz: did you? Ah well, you think you are better now?
<DktrKranz> sure, I missed 56k :P
<DktrKranz> and, it is because of telecom I'm here right now, they have just freed DSL cable to be switched to new guys
<geser> no open WLAN in reach?
<DktrKranz> geser, ah, noticed right now, mind closing hardy task?
<RainCT> bobbo: were the changes forwarded to Debian?
<DktrKranz> s/hardy/intrepid/
<geser> DktrKranz: can do
<bobbo> RainCT: yes, but they havent picked them up
<RainCT> ok
<RainCT> bobbo: (next time list the Maintainer change in the changelog, but don't worry to do this now, isn't that important)
<bobbo> RainCT: ok, will do
<DktrKranz> laga, done.
<DktrKranz> norsetto, you're next in line :)
<laga> DktrKranz: yay!
 * laga hugs DktrKranz 
<DktrKranz> laga, latter already ACKed by john, no need to add a second ACK :)
<norsetto> DktrKranz: ok, gotta dig them out now ... first one should be bug 224847
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224847 in plucker "package update-manager 1:0.87.24 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: SystemError in cache.commit(): E:Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224847
 * DktrKranz looks at the queue: 84 results
<norsetto> DktrKranz: also bug 225935
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225935 in oxine "oxine is not installable in 8.04" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225935
<DktrKranz> norsetto, done. and now, my DSL please! ;)
<norsetto> DktrKranz: on its way, I have a feed Guastalla->Rome firing up
<DktrKranz> good
<dfiloni_> norsetto: hi :)
<norsetto> dfiloni: hi devide
<sebner> huhu norsetto \o/
<sebner> FOLKS! Do I missed something. wine sync from Debian?????????????????????????????????????????
<norsetto> sebner, hmmm?
<sebner> norsetto: I said hi ;)
<norsetto> sebner: I mean, about wine
<sebner> norsetto: the latest wine release is a sync from Debian
<ajmitch> and?
<ajmitch> if all the ubuntu changes are in the debian package, it shouldn't be a problem, right?
<norsetto> ajmitch, I guess he is just surprised that wine is in debian
<ajmitch> wine has been in debian for a very long time
<ajmitch> I know that the current debian maintainer was looking for people to help out
<geser> don't we use the packages from winehq and not debian?
<ajmitch> generally yes, because YokoZar maintains them
<pochu> wow, wine synced \o/
<sebner> that's why I was surprised
<pochu> (not that I care for wine, but seen packages synced is a good thing)
<sebner> He have Scott ...
<ajmitch> so, can someone confirm that it was actually synced, and not just uploaded with the wrong version number?
<sebner> ajmitch: debian changelog ......
<sebner> ajmitch: wine (1.0-rc2-1) unstable; urgency=low
<ajmitch>  wine (1.0~rc2-1) intrepid; urgency=low
<ajmitch> from intrepid-changes, so I'm wondering if it was a mistaken sync
<sebner> ajmitch: that's the old one. just got the updates and looked at the wine site
 * ajmitch suspects that this sync was unintentional
<sebner> ajmitch: crazy =)
<norsetto> ajmitch: its an autosync
<ajmitch> norsetto: yeah, because the last upload by scott didn't have -0ubuntu1
<sebner> norsetto: because of the false versioning of the previous version? or intential?
<geser> I guess bad versioning
<norsetto> ah ok, so it was the previous one that was wrong
<ajmitch> nothing to get overly excited about
 * ajmitch thinks sebner used up his punctuation quota for the day there :)
 * norsetto thinks that ajmitch doesn't yet know well sebner
<sebner> ajmitch: lol. that's enthusiasm :P
<sebner> norsetto: sounds somehow bad :\
<ajmitch> norsetto: I'm getting old...
<norsetto> ajmitch, who isn't!?
<geser> let's hope YokoZar see this discussion in his scroll-back and fixes the versioning
<sebner> and sebner is getting ignored :P
<norsetto> sebner: stop being silly and get on with your syncs!!!!!!
<sebner> norsetto: lol. if you pass some over to me I'll file the bugs :P
<norsetto> sebner: check out those from andrea veri, he is on "sabbatical"
 * ScottK wonders what YokoZar will do when he finds out.
<mario_limonciell> probably upload a new package? :)
<sebner> ScottK: go wild ^^
<sebner> norsetto: bah. these are merges and I have enough merges where I *should* report back to debian and wait wait wait
<ScottK> I just figured it's be potentially useful to use his nick so he might look in.
<ajmitch> ignore that it was ever there & not worry about providing transitional packages back to the ubuntu scheme of things?
<geser> ScottK: perhaps hit the person who caused this with a cluebat? :)
<ScottK> ajmitch: That's what I'd do.
 * ajmitch used his nick a few times
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> ajmitch: Missed that when reading the scrollback.  Sorry.
<sebner> norsetto: I'll start uploading to revu the next days ;)
 * ajmitch wonders if there'll be anything left to do on intrepid by the end of the week
<sebner> ajmitch: why?
<geser> sebner: should the revu-admins start looking for an extra hdd for revu? :)
<ajmitch> sebner: because by then you should have cleared out the merge list & bug list?
<geser> ajmitch: if we are that fast done with everything we could release it :)
<sebner> It seems every know that I spammed u-u-s at hardy cycle a little little bit ^^
<sebner> geser: I suck at packaging. I'll start with a small little app. may upload 2-3 more the next weeks/months. Then I'll get bored and will start spamming u-u-s again =)
<ajmitch> what do you spam u-u-s with?
<norsetto> sebner: marco rodriguez and william lima are also free game
<sebner> ajmitch: merges and syncs =)
<sebner> norsetto: hmm, sry?
<norsetto> sebner: free merges/syncs
<sebner> norsetto: did know. just about Luke ones
<geser> norsetto: doesn't sebner already syncs/merges everything he can find on MoM?
<sebner> geser: DaD. no. I just asked you ;) I'm doing nothing without asking ;)
 * ajmitch spots another sync
 * RoAkSoAx whishes to have time to do more merges :(
<norsetto> sebner: how many uploads did you do already for intrepid?
<sebner> norsetto: <10. :\ but if geser's ocaml things get synced ... ^^
<ajmitch> more than I've done, obviously
<norsetto> sebner: findlib? That was synced and there are about 40 packages waiting to be rebuilt
<sebner> ajmitch: I would do merges but then I hear "Report back to Debian so we can sync (in 4 months -.-)
<sebner> norsetto: ocaml, perl.10? boring :P
<norsetto> geser: I did some today btw
<geser> norsetto: I have seen it, I did some ocaml rebuilds too
<geser> I also got libreadonly-{xs-,}perl synced, so the perl 5.10 transition can go on
<norsetto> geser: great, we should be rid of it soon
<norsetto> hehe, this is fun: http://core.joejaxx.net/~joejaxx/ircstats/freenode/ubuntu-motu/, especially "Some big numbers..."
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> where did you find that?
<siretart> wah, I'm on place 29
<sebner> norsetto: what? only rank 42 xD I have to do something against it ^^
<joejaxx> LOL "Hobbsee yells a lot! 620"
<joejaxx> :P
<ajmitch> hey siretart
<mario_limonciell> i'm always disturbed when persia is listed in the most active people by time of day in all the columns :)
<ajmitch> joejaxx: over what time period is that?
<joejaxx> 750289 lines (460 days) parsed in 8 seconds
<siretart> hey ajmitch!
<joejaxx> :D
 * ajmitch is disturbed to be in the top 5
<sebner> ajmitch: \o/
<joejaxx> haha
<joejaxx> :
<joejaxx> "No files? The package is empty?"
<joejaxx> some of these quotes are extremely funny
<mok0> joejaxx: I like this one: "I'm a little lost. This struct looks like a function." :-)
<joejaxx> haha
<norsetto> time to go, good night all
<sebner> gn8
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-28
 * ryanakca is updating (and adopting) kguitar in Debian so that we can get an updated version... however I need to "relibtoolize" it. I've decided to adopt the same model as basket and do so at build, however I can't seem to get it to work. Could someone help me out please?
<ryanakca> dget http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/k/kguitar/kguitar_0.5.1-1.dsc
<persia> mario_limonciell: I'm slacking these days.  Now's your chance to pull ahead :)
<YokoZar> ajmitch: ScottK: ugh.  I very intentionally made the version 1.0~x so that 1.0 would replace it, now that this autosync happened I need to do something like Wine 1.0-rc3 to mean 1.0
<ScottK> YokoZar: As soon as you uploaded https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine/1.0~rc2-1 with no Ubuntu in the revision, it was syncable.  I'd suggest upload 1.0-rc2-1ubuntu1 for now with your packaging and figure out the versioning for the final release later (1.0+1 is an option).
<ScottK> YokoZar: You'll have to use their tarball though or go ahead and bump the upstream version number.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<emgent> uhm, i have one problem about one package
<emgent> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/15217/
<emgent> chmod dont work
<emgent> some idea/suggest ?
<emgent> ScottK: some experience with web-apps package ?
<RAOF> By "don't work", you mean?  Can you pastebin the build output?
<emgent> build fine.
<RAOF> Also, is MOFILES defined anywhere?
<emgent> but dont apply chmod in this file/dirs.
<ScottK> emgent: I make every effort to stay far away from anything that contains the letters php.
<emgent> ScottK: lol :)
 * ScottK is not kidding.
<RAOF> emgent: Look at man dh_fixperms; it un-executables anything in /usr/share
<RAOF> And removes write privelages for !root
<RAOF> Ahem.  Or not, depending on whether I can actually comprehend my native tongue :(
<emgent> ...
<emgent> lol
<emgent> this file need this chmod
<RAOF> But it certainly appears to remove write privs for !root; my bad on the !executable (that's only /usr/share/doc, not /usr/share)
<emgent> so just a moment.
<RAOF> Exclude it from dh_fixperms (and hence violate policy, IIUC).
<emgent> sure, fixing..
<emgent> thank RAOF
<emgent> s/thank/thanks/
<RAOF> NP
<RAOF> Everyone thank RAOF!
<emgent> lol
 * ajmitch grovels before RAOF 
<emgent> ok now work.
<ajmitch> yessir
<artfwo> Hello, since bug 234896 is fixed now, I'm asking again to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=supercollider and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=supercollider-gedit
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 234896 in revu "Upload does not get accepted unless original source is excluded" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/234896
<RAOF> StevenK: This is today's "no-one on debian-mentors is interested yet, would you like to sponsor some uploads" ping.  Just tell me if they get annoying. ;)
<StevenK> RAOF: Haha
<StevenK> RAOF: Um, ping me in a few hours, I'm putting out fires currently
<RAOF> Certainly!
 * RAOF hands StevenK a lake.  I hope they're not electrical fires.
<ajmitch> StevenK: fun!
 * ajmitch just got pinged to get a package fixed, how unfortunate
<dholbach> good morning
<soren> 'morning, dholbach!
<ajmitch> dholbach!
<ajmitch> soren! :)
<dholbach> hi soren, hi ajmitch :)
<soren> ajmitch! :)
<ajmitch> now I know that it's time for me to leave work & walk home :)
<Hobbsee> greetings all
<Hobbsee> did someone say fire?
<StevenK> I did
<RAOF> Fire!
<Hobbsee> where!
<RAOF> Well, fire _alarm_ in the frikkin Red Centre while I was teaching a tutorial.  We'd just got to the punchline, too.
<RAOF> StevenK: Did the lake do the trick?  Fires out?
<StevenK> RAOF: Fires out, but I can't context switch right now.
<RAOF> Ok.  I'll leave you alone then
<mok0> ZZZzzzzzz
<huats> morning motu comminuty
<huats> :)
<huats> community :)
<dholbach> hiya huats
 * dholbach hugs huats
<huats> hey dholbach
 * huats hugs back master dholbach
<slytherin> huats: you should say DJ dholbach :-P
<huats> :)
<huats> yeah
<huats> or the one who has been flash hugged dholbach
<huats> :)
<dholbach> hehe :-)
<Hobbsee> oh no!  hugs!
<geser> good morning
<slytherin> geser: Good Morning
<geser> Hi slytherin
<slytherin> geser: Can you please advocate xml-commons-external after making sure I have addressed all your concerns?
<gnomefreak> jdong: you have a minute? wondering if you got around to xul+FF3RC1 for gutsy yet if not i there anything i need to know on how you would go about handling them please ping me when you get time about this
<pochu> doko: hi, could you have a quick look at this debdiff for mingw32? specially the patch at the end of it: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12184273/mingw32-shared-runtime.debdiff
<doko> pochu: any reason why this patch is not in debian?
<pochu> doko: not that I know. It has a sponsorship request in Launchpad, bug 195407
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 195407 in mingw32 "mingw-4.2 requires shared lib{gcc,stdc++} for cross-dll exceptions" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195407
<james_w> dholbach: can I ask why you declined the hardy task on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/insight/+bug/110387 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 110387 in insight "Insight was accidentally built wrong" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<RAOF> StevenK: Do I have you to thank for the specto upload?
 * gnomefreak would have though edgy task should have been declined
<pochu> !fakesync
<ubottu> Factoid fakesync not found
<pochu> we need something for that :)
<gnomefreak> !info fakesync
<ubottu> Package fakesync does not exist in hardy
<gnomefreak> pochu: that is either not the package name or its not in hardy as i just checked on hardy chroot
<gnomefreak> pochu: we havent updated bot for intrepid yet its way too early
<pochu> gnomefreak: I mean the process :)
<pochu> e.g. sync vs. fakesync
<gnomefreak> ah. are there wikis on them?
<pochu> no idea, let me check
 * gnomefreak will add it if i have info on it
<pochu> doesn't look like
<gnomefreak> pochu: when i get home this afternoon i will look into finding docs on it or you can attempt to add it to ubottu and someone in -ops will add it if they approve
<pochu> gnomefreak: ok, thanks
<gnomefreak> pochu: would really like some docs on it though
<gnomefreak> pochu: np
<pochu> gnomefreak: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15303/
<pochu> ^-- anyone care to review if my description of a fakesync is correct?
<pochu> thanks :)
<gnomefreak> pochu: it looks right just needs to be a bit shorter, so a bit later ill look at it again and see wher ei can cut it up
<gnomefreak> !mom
<ubottu> Factoid mom not found
<pochu> gnomefreak: I was thinking to add it to the wiki, not to ubotu :)
<gnomefreak> !dad
<ubottu> Factoid dad not found
<gnomefreak> pochu: that will work :)
<pochu> gnomefreak: so ubotu could say a shorter version and link to the wiki page :)
<gnomefreak> than i can add wiki to bot
<gnomefreak> pochu: :)
<geser> pochu: an other reason for a fakesync can be bad versioning (see e.g. ilohamail)
<tbielawa> mornin' fellas
<Iulian> Heya
<dholbach> james_w: sorry, I don't know - if somebody wants to approve it - that's fine with me
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<james_w> dholbach: thanks
<sebner> hihu sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<sistpoty|work> hihu? is that a mix of hi and huhu? *g*
<sebner> sistpoty|work: of course =)
<sistpoty|work> *g*
<sebner> sistpoty|work: and to tell you a secrect. I sometimes write fast and not what I want and such things like hihu is then the result ^^
<emgent> heya
<sebner> aloga emgent =)
<emgent> aloga?
<sistpoty|work> sebner: heh, and I thought that was some cool new word :P
<sistpoty|work> hi emgent
<emgent> hi sistpoty|work :)
<sebner> emgent: aloga = aloha ^^
<emgent> ah
<sebner> sistpoty|work: that too ^^
<emgent> Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.1.1 <emgent@ubuntu.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table
<geser> emgent: still got no attention to your answer ticket?
<emgent> geser: nope, not reply now
<zul> kirkland: im doing a test build now
<emgent> geser: any suggest? :)
<geser> emgent: not really
<LucidFox> How do I make gdb use -dbg libraries?
<sistpoty|work> LucidFox: doesn't it use these by default if installed?
<LucidFox> hmm
<LucidFox> but the application has to be linked against debug libraries?
<sistpoty|work> LucidFox: no. the -dbg packages don't contain libraries, but rather only s.th. different (I'm not sure what, maybe symbol files or s.th.)
<LucidFox> libqt4-dbg contains .debug files for Qt libraries
<sistpoty|work> LucidFox: yes, these are just the files containing the debug info for the shared object found in libqt4 (whatever the debug info itself is)
<LucidFox> hmm... I've installed libqt4-dbg and libqt4-webkit-dbg, and the bt command outputs function names for QtCore and QtGui, but not QtWebkit
<geser> sistpoty|work: I'm not sure about the -dbg packages but the -dbgsyms packages contain only the debug symbols
<geser> LucidFox: have you tried the -dbgsyms packages for libqt4?
<slytherin> I think -dbg packages contained non-striped version of library. You can not have both library and it's -dbg package installed at the same time.
<sistpoty|work> geser: both *should* have been created the same way (via dh_strip), so I assume that this is valid for both
<sistpoty|work> slytherin: no, that doesn't make sense to me
<LucidFox> slytherin> Qt -dbg files contain .so.4.4.0.debug files in /usr/lib
<zul> kirkland: uploaded and accepted
<vadi2> If a project I'm trying to package does not have a configure file or even uses the makefile system, how can I find out where should it be installed?
<geser> vadi2: does a README or INSTALL file mention how to install the app?
<vadi2> ï»¿geser: it wasn't installable before, just came in a folder you unpack.
<sistpoty|work> vadi2: FHS should give you some hints (you can find docs of FHS in the debian-policy package)
<broonie> vadi2: Look at how it fits into the FHS.
<vadi2> I got the package, but what can I view it with?
<vadi2> Ah got it. thanks.
<kirkland> zul: php5 i assume?  thanks
<YokoZar> Hmm, you can use tinyurl to send apt:// commands: http://tinyurl.com/2bhmdp  <---installs Wine
<geser> YokoZar: have you seen that wine got synced from Debian?
<sistpoty|work> oh nice, due to the version number, MoM has just autosynced it. Maybe wine should get blacklisted to avoid such things in the future?
<LucidFox> How do I disable XIM in Qt4 applications?
<kirkland> zul: sparc build failed, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14764683/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-sparc.php5_5.2.6-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz, "make[2]: *** [install-pear-installer] Bus error"
<zul> kirkland: interesting
<YokoZar> geser: Yes, I'm just gonna wait till Friday and upload Wine 1.0 rc3 since launchpad is rejecting my rc2 uploads since the orig.tar.gz is different
<akira86> Hello, I want to put a package in the REVU website; I have just put my gpg_key in launchpad; Could the administrator please resync the REVU uploaders keyring ? Thank you in advance.
<sistpoty|work> akira86: when did you do that? I did a resync half an hour ago
<sebner> sistpoty|work: I'm really suprised why people can't just wait 24 hours ...
<sistpoty|work> sebner: because afaict there is no cronjob running every day *g*
<sebner> sistpoty|work: I thought it gets synced every 24 hours. *wired*
<sistpoty|work> sebner: that used to be the case. But since some time, we've disabled the cronjob (not too sure why). And imo we didn't enable it again later ;)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: kk
<sistpoty|work> akira86: keyring resynced (again) ;)
<akira86> ï»¿sistpoty|work : ok, thank you... I have post without trying to upload before.
<akira86> I have just put a file and try to login ... but I obtain this message : No REVU account for maxime1986@wanadoo.fr exists yet.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<geser> Hi bddebian
<sistpoty|work> akira86: revu will only create an account, once you've uploaded a package.
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work, geser
<sistpoty|work> akira86: if you'd like to comment on other packages (but are not interested in uploading a package), I could create an account for you right now though
<akira86> ï»¿sistpoty|work: Yes, I know ... I have been following the Howto but I have just uploaded the file :  stjerm_0.11-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<akira86> and I still can't log myself in the website ... is it normal ??
<sistpoty|work> akira86: yes. please try again in 3 minutes
<akira86> ï»¿if you'd like to comment on other packages (but are not interested in uploading a package), I could create an account for you right now though : No I just want to upload package ...
<akira86> ï»¿yes. please try again in 3 minutes : ok, no problem ... Thank you
<sistpoty|work> no problem
<akira86> ï»¿sistpoty|work: It work well, thank you :-D
<jpds> hmm, how can I pass two commands through ssh? as in ssh me@ip cd dir; ls?
<james_w> jpds: "ssh me@ip 'cd dir; ls'"
<jpds> james_w: now it just stops at: "debug1: Sending command: cd /srv/revu-production/; sudo -u revu1 ./bin/revu-key list"
<wgrant> jpds: Why not do it all in one command?
<wgrant> That's what I do.
<jpds> wgrant: one command?
<wgrant> jpds: sudo -u revu1 /srv/revu-production/bin/revu-key whatever
<jpds> wgrant: that works? I thought one had to run the script from /srv/revu-production
<bobbo> pochu: ping
<wgrant> jpds: I've always adminned REVU from outside that directory.
<pochu> bobbo: pong
<jpds> wgrant: strange, it always stops at "debug1: Sending command: sudo -u revu1 /srv/revu-production/bin/revu-key list"
<wgrant> jpds: You're the only one I can see running it from inside the directory.
<wgrant> jpds: Hmm, maybe it is legitimately waiting on the other end?
<bobbo> pochu: about bug #226423, the problems you mentioned with the changelog arent my changes they were made in the debian version being merged: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/15338/plain/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226423 in apt-proxy "Please merge apt-proxy 1.9.36.3 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226423
<pochu> bobbo: ah, right, my bad
<jpds> wgrant: hmm, yeah, could be just waiting..
<pochu> bobbo: I thought it was a Debian->Ubuntu debdiff, sorry. Could you attach it? that's usually easier to review :)
<wgrant> jpds: This works fine for me, and fairly quickly: ssh fujitsu@spooky.ubuntuwire.com 'sudo -u revu1 /srv/revu-production/bin/revu-key list'
<bobbo> pochu: sure no worries
<jpds> wgrant: same, sending command...
<pochu> bobbo: usually attaching both is the best thing to do, you never know who will review it ;)
<bobbo> pochu: yeah, that was my first attempt at doing a merge, before i had read the documentation properly :/
<pochu> bobbo: it's fine, it was my mistake! :)
<pochu> bobbo: it's just that debian introduced a lot of changes so a ubuntu->ubuntu debdiff is big...
<pochu> so I prefer to review a debian->ubuntu one because I'm lazy ;)
<sistpoty|work> soren: are you expecting an answer on your last mail regarding my core-dev application? If so, can you specify what you're actually trying to ask me?
<bobbo> pochu: attached the new debdiff to the bug :)
<pochu> sistpoty|work: I'm reading your application in -motu-council... perhaps you want to do some ubuntu-main-sponsors work ;-)
<pochu> bobbo: cool, I'll have a look at it
<pochu> sistpoty|work: BTW, thanks for starting the MOTU processes mail
<pochu> s/mail/thread/
<sistpoty|work> pochu: heh
<sistpoty|work> pochu: no problem, thanks for your good input ;)
<sistpoty|work> oh, looks like soren is afk :(
<pochu> sistpoty|work: I'll wait a few days (maybe until this weekend) to see if someone else replies, and will summarize then what we have
<sistpoty|work> pochu: excellent, thanks!
<pochu> bobbo: looks good, I'll upload!
<bobbo> pochu: thanks a lot :D
<pochu> bobbo: btw, apt-proxy should really use pycentral or pycontrol...
<pochu> hardcoding the path is not a GoodThingâ¢
<bobbo> pochu: hehe, /me goes to google what py(central|control) is. Thanks for the feedback btw :)
<pochu> bobbo: you can look for python-central/python-control in aptitude show :)
 * bobbo just realised he has beaten his Hardy uploads record already :)
<pochu> :)
<devfil_> hi pochu :)
<emgent> heya people
<persia> bobbo: Congratulations!
<devfil_> pochu: thanks for runit :)
<bobbo> persia: hehe, its only 14 uploads so far but thanks :)
<persia> bobbo: That's OK.  Just remember to do twice as many for each release, and you'll be fine.
<bobbo> persia: heh, hoping to get > 28 in this release! still got ages to go
<pochu> devfil_: np, let me know when you run out of work ;)
<pochu> hi persia :)
<devfil_> pochu: if you want I've some patch that are needing sponsorship
<pochu> devfil_: sure, # ?
<pochu> bug#, that is
<devfil_> pochu: bug #195291 and bug #225179
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 195291 in openuniverse "Application icon doesn't appears in K menÃ¹" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195291
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225179 in koffice "kthesaurus kde menu item doesn't have an icon" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225179
<pochu> ouch, koffice
<pochu> devfil_: 195291 needs more work, commented on it
<devfil_> pochu: ok
<devfil_> pochu: I can fix it in one second
<pochu> sure, just let me know when it's done :)
<norsetto> heya heya
<pochu> hey norsetto
<pochu> norsetto: would you mind if I sponsor bug 227080? If Debian introduces our change we can sync it later
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227080 in fet "Please merge fet 5.4.17-1 (universe) from Debian (main)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227080
<pochu> norsetto: I'm cleaning the u-u-s queue :)
<devfil_> pochu: done the new debdiff
<norsetto> pochu: I have no problem if that is on-hold, but if you feel it is cluttering the queue than go on
<pochu> norsetto: the patch is trivial so I prefer to upload. thanks
<devfil_> norsetto: I haven't heard from you any info about a mentore for me,
<devfil_> s/mentore/mentor
<norsetto> devfil_: I know, I'm still waiting for feedback too
<devfil_> norsetto: ok, however I think I wil try to join universe-contributors team
<norsetto> devfil_: are you short of things to do? Do you need any help? In the meantime just let me (and others here) know
<pochu> devfil_: I thought I was yours :)
<persia> devfil_: Do you really need a mentor?  You've been doing some great work, and I'm sure that if you complain you have too much free time here, people will give you things to do :)
<devfil_> norsetto: I'm ok (thanks to pochu) for now
<devfil_> persia: I did some errors
 * persia isn't opposed to mentoring, but thinks the mentors queue is long, and people may do as well bypassing until it is shorter
<norsetto> devfil_: thats cool
 * pochu has a bunch of stuff to do, in case people is bored :)
<devfil_> norsetto: however I ask you if you will have a mentor for me to assign him to no0tic, I think I can attend a while
<pochu> bah, so many italians around :P
<pochu> devfil_: uploading openuniverse. I can't upload koffice though, it's in main
<devfil_> pochu: np
<devfil_> pochu: wxwidgets upstream asked me to help him to create 3.0 debian package.. I'm scared
<persia> devfil_: I have complete confidence in you.  You likely know wxwidgets packaging as well as anyone at this point.
<devfil_> persia: yes, I know it but I don't know how I will do to help him, however I will try to help him
<norsetto> devfil_: do you want to help with testing?
<devfil_> norsetto: testing of?
<norsetto> devfil_: sru
<devfil_> oh sure
<norsetto> devfil_: ok, you can help with bug 225935, bug 224847 and bug 230662 if you feel brave
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225935 in oxine "oxine is not installable in 8.04" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225935
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224847 in plucker "package update-manager 1:0.87.24 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: SystemError in cache.commit(): E:Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224847
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230662 in gecko-mediaplayer "gecko-mediaplayer depends on firefox metapackage" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230662
<persia> Err.  Oops.  I forgot about oxine :(
<norsetto> persia: were you working on it?
<persia> norsetto: A long time ago.  I expect the SRU is related one of the libxine transitions.
<pochu> devfil_: OMG, 3.0!
<pochu> devfil_: they have released a beta or rc of it?
<pochu> s/they have/have they/
<norsetto> persia: libmagick actually
<devfil_> pochu: I don't know, but will released the 2.9 version before 3.0
<persia> No, it was a different issue.  I was supposed to do 159338, which might cause minor issues, but not break it.  Anyway, I expect most of 159338 is handled by the SRU anyway.
<norsetto> bug 159338
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 159338 in oxine "Re: Heads-up: small xine-lib transition in hardy" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159338
<devfil_> norsetto: oxine works
<norsetto> devfil_: ok, thx, pls. report it in the bug report
<devfil_> norsetto: I can test gecko-mediaplayer because I use firefox 3
<norsetto> devfil_: that why I said "if you feel brave" ;-)
<devfil_> norsetto: lol
 * sistpoty|work heads home now
<sistpoty|work> cya
<norsetto> anybody heard anything from nxvl?
<RoAkSoAx> norhe is in greece
<RoAkSoAx> or someplace in europe
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto,
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: yes, he was supposed to be in Rome today, but I have not heard from him
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, i think he missed his place 2 days ago (from france) or something like that, maybe he has changed his schedule or something like that
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: hmm, yesterday he was still looking for an hotel, I hope he found one, otherwise the nights are warm, and Rome has plenty of bridges ;-)
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, hahahaha lol!!!
<RoAkSoAx> no one around the peruvian team knows anything about him.. the last time we talked to him was 2 days ago
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: ok, he has my phone number, so I guess he didn't need any help and he is enjoying the city
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, hopefully :)
<pochu> any KDE wizard out there to review bug 227939?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227939 in kdevelop "Merge kdevelop 3.5.1-1 from Debian Unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227939
 * ryanakca is updating (and adopting) kguitar in Debian so that we can get an updated version... however I need to "relibtoolize" it. I've decided to adopt the same model as basket and do so at build, however I can't seem to get it to work. Could someone help me out please?
<ryanakca> dget http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/k/kguitar/kguitar_0.5.1-1.dsc
<persia> blueyed: If you find a upgrade bug for which there is something in Debian experimental, and can confirm it builds, installs, and works in intrepid, that bug is a good thing to turn into a sync request.
<blueyed> persia: yes, I'm already looking. There appears to be also at least one cve bug open for blender.
<persia> blueyed: Excellent!  Upgrades + Security + Backport.  You'll get to touch everything at once :)
<blueyed> persia: well, just looking.. ;)
<emgent> heya people
<blueyed> Hi emgent.
<blueyed> persia: the cve is completely unclear (no patch).. I've only triaged around there now.
<sebner> huhu emgent
<emgent> sebner: hi boy
<blueyed> So, if somebody wants to merge blender.. (should be easy, but from unstable) :)
<sebner> emgent: what's going on with our sysadmins :P
<jpds> sebner: script br0ken
<sebner> jpds: such things always happen if I want something really really
<sebner> jpds: thanks for the info
<jpds> sebner: well, all good things take time, a little patience goes a long way
<jpds> sebner: I even asked if we could look at the script to fix it; antwort: "nein"
<sebner> jpds: well emgent is waiting ~3 days. I'm waiting since >14 days so I have patience ;)
<jpds> sebner: I've been waitigin 3 weeks+
<sebner> jpds: -.-
<sebner> jpds: why "nein"? ^^
<jpds> sebner: they wouldn't say.
<sebner> jpds: O_o
<sebner> jpds: how good are you german skills beside "nein", btw ;)
 * ryanakca is updating (and adopting) kguitar in Debian so that we can get an updated version... however I need to "relibtoolize" it. I've decided to adopt the same model as basket and do so at build, however I can't seem to get it to work. Could someone help me out please?
<ryanakca> dget http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/k/kguitar/kguitar_0.5.1-1.dsc
<jpds> sebner: I did an intensive Teach-Myself-course for months last year
<sebner> jpds: why that?
<jpds> sebner: seemed like a good thing to do at the time. (I already knew French/Spanish/Catalan)
<sebner> jpds: language genius :P
<jpds> sebner: lived aboard alot.
<Jazzva> pochu: ping
<norsetto> jazzva: don't forget that you still have to follow up on the gecko-mediaplayer sru ...
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, have you heard anything about nxvl or still there's no new about him?
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: no news
<RoAkSoAx> weird... he must be at a bridge then xD
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: I'm quite sure the bugger is enjoying himself!
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, yeah!! he surely is!!
<RoAkSoAx> certainly*
<Jazzva> norsetto: I tested the package from -proposed... SRU verification is subscribed, and now we're waiting for a 7-day aging period to pass. What other actions are required? I took a look at w.u.c/SRU now, but didn't found anything else...
<norsetto> jazzva: the 7 days is not a requirement anymore
<Jazzva> norsetto: Can I remove that from the wiki page then? Should I look for other mentions of that period on other pages (if there are other pages regarding SRU and 7-days period)?
<norsetto> jazzva: its gone from the wiki page already
<Jazzva> norsetto: It's still on the ArchiveAdministration page, in SRU paragraph...
<norsetto> jazzva: ah, I meant on the StableReleaseUpdate one
<Jazzva> :)
<Jazzva> So, it's ok to remove that part from the page then? BTW, did you mean on the testing part that I need to do for gecko-mediaplayer sru?
<Jazzva> norsetto: Or was there something else?
<DktrKranz> hey norsetto, your link Rome -> Guastalla works like a charm :)
<norsetto> jazzva: I meant: 1) ask for testing (I did that here and thankfully albert tested it), please do that next time 2) since we have +3, set the tag to verification-done and subscribe archive-admins to have it moved to -updates
<norsetto> DktrKranz: much obliged ;-)
<DktrKranz> you can remove it right now, new ISP has finally landed
<Jazzva> norsetto: Ok
<norsetto> jazzva: thanks for all the hard work :-)
<Jazzva> norsetto: No problem... Thank you for all your help and patience :).
<norsetto> jazzva: my pleasure
<Jazzva> norsetto: BTW, on SRU wiki page it says that SRU verification team should set verification-done tag. Is it ok if I do it?
<norsetto> jazzva: motu-sru? That'd surprise me, no, just do it, and if you are not sure ask DktrKranz
<Jazzva> norsetto: No, sru-verification... Just read about that...
<norsetto> Jazzva: ah, ok
<Jazzva> DktrKranz: Is it ok if I set the verification-done tag on gecko-mediaplayer sru request?
<Jazzva> (I already set it, before I read about the sru-verification team. I will reset it to verification-needed, if it's not ok)
<DktrKranz> it should be sru-verification, but for universe, if two or more people confirmed fix is good, archive-admin usually copy packages to -updates without sru-verification "thumbs up"
<DktrKranz> (I'm in sru-verification, if that helps)
<Jazzva> DktrKranz: Ok, then I'll subscribe archive admins...
<Jazzva> thanks, it helps...
<DktrKranz> Jazzva, it is not worth subscribing a-a, setting verification-done updates pending-sru page, it's enough
<Jazzva> DktrKranz: Ok
<DktrKranz> when pitti sees "green light", he copies :)
 * DktrKranz will scan motu-sru queue soon, promise!
<ajmitch> hi
 * ryanakca is updating (and adopting) kguitar in Debian so that we can get an updated version... however I need to "relibtoolize" it. I've decided to adopt the same model as basket and do so at build, however I can't seem to get it to work. Could someone help me out please?
<ryanakca> dget http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/k/kguitar/kguitar_0.5.1-1.dsc
<norsetto> hi ajmitch
<zul> hey ajmitch
<norsetto> anyone familiar with debian svn repos?
<ajmitch> define 'familiar'
<ajmitch> sigh, have to run to work, will catch up with that later
<persia> norsetto: What do you seek to accomplish?
<norsetto> persia: well, I have a local checkout, and I know there is a change in the repo. What command should I sue to update the local copy? svn update just hangs .....
<RainCT> afaik svn up is right
<persia> norsetto: I always use `svn up`  If that hangs, I wonder if your checkout predates key adjustment.
<norsetto> persia: its the checkout I got from svn-inject
<pochu> Jazzva: Pong
<persia> norsetto: Can't help you there.  I don't inject new stuff.
<norsetto> persia: I see, perhaps I should just delete that and do a complete new co
<Jazzva> pochu: Did you want me to upload the diffs of the whole dir for liferea merge, or do you need the diffs between debian dirs too?
<pochu> Jazzva: sorry, I don't understand the question
<ScottK2> siretart: Are you around?
<Jazzva> pochu: You asked me before to upload the diff between debian dirs, too. I uploaded the new diffs, with adjusted xulrunner version in debian/control. Do you need the diff between the debian dirs too?
<pochu> Jazzva: yes
<Jazzva> pochu: k
<pochu> Jazzva: in fact, we only need the debian/ diff
<pochu> the others are useless
<tacone> is it normal exec doesn't have a man page ? Should I report the bug ?
<sebner> gn8 folks
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-29
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, any sign of nxvl?
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: nope
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, wierd!! he might be in a nice bridge since he does not give any signs of being alive!!
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: well, its almost 2am here, so I don't think he will phone soon, I think his flight is in few hours actually
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, i see... here is almost 7pm... and i was expecting him to be present at the Americas Membership meeting since i'm applying and he was supporting me... but well..
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: I guess he didn't find any internet cafÃ© with Ubuntu computers ;-)
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, hahah yeah!! and neither a open wireless connection for his laptop... (here in my PerÃº you can find thousands since no one is aware of wireless security)
<viperhoot> where you are nxvl... xS
<norsetto> oh well, time to rest these poor bones
<viperhoot> hahah
<RAOF> Aha!  It's not my crypttab that's broken, it's the initramfs :)
<RAOF> Ok, and maybe cryptsetup.
<RAOF> Awkward.
<kirkland> kees: fair enough, i'll bug you again if they haven't taken it by FF for Intrepid
<kees> kirkland: yup, sounds totally right
<nixternal> anyone in here want to attest at just how annoying RoAkSoAx is and think he should be an Ubuntu member, #ubuntu-meeting now :)
<RoAkSoAx> nixternal, nxvl would but he is still in Europe :(
<cody-somerville> lol
<nhandler> I'm doing a merge on a package where the source directory is not in named in the format <sourcepackage>-<upstreamversion>. dpkg-source gives a warning about this. Should I rename the source directory, or should I leave it as it is?
<ajmitch> ignore
<persia_> nhandler: I'd keep the pattern used in the Debian package if they differ.  Otherwise, it's not important (except where you are the packager or maintainer).
<nhandler> persia_: Ok, thanks for your help
<bddebian> Heya gang
<TheMuso> Hey bddebian.
<bddebian> Heya TheMuso
 * persia_ notes that 744 packages currently appear on http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ if anyone wants to chase down build failures
<siretart> ScottK: yes?
<ajmitch> hello siretart
<siretart> hi ajmitch
<dholbach> good morning
<StevenK> dholbach: You sent a '.' to the xmms2 merge bug?
<dholbach> StevenK: I sent the "Steve: can you please take a look at it?" unfortunately before I subscribed you to it
<StevenK> But it's xmms2!
<dholbach> errrr
<dholbach> bug number?
<dholbach> StevenK: ^
<dholbach> nm, got it
<StevenK> Trying to find it
<dholbach> bug 178477?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 178477 in xmms2 "Please merge: XMMS2 0.4 DrKosmos" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/178477
<dholbach> where's a "." there?
<StevenK> Maybe that was Thunderbird being dorky
<dholbach> I sent that on the bluez-utils merge
<StevenK> Oh!
<StevenK> Right
<StevenK> Then I confused the two bugs
<dholbach> alright
<pochu> \sh: can you have a look at bug 198618? you removed some files in a previous upload for which people are complaining
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 198618 in opencryptoki "Critical parts of library missing from the package" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198618
<pochu> stgraber: you should use '-s' with requestsync, as you need an ACK
<Arby> pochu: you rejected my merge of kdmtheme, could you give me someidea what's wrong with it?
<Arby> from the point of view of some one still learning just saying 'the debdiff looks wrong' doesn't tell me much
<Arby> since I'm still learning what 'right' is supposed to look like
<Arby> sorry forget link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdmtheme/+bug/227912
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227912 in kdmtheme "merge kdmtheme 1.2.2-1 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<stgraber> pochu: oh right, forgot this option ...
<stgraber> pochu: thanks for the ack
 * highvoltage 
<pochu> Arby: look at the beginning of http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14346701/kdmtheme_1.2.2-1ubuntu1.debdiff, you are removing changelog entries instead of adding them
<pochu> Arby: basically I think you did 'debdiff new old' instead of 'debdiff old new'
<pochu> Arby: also, please attach a debian->ubuntu debdiff, that's usually easier to review
<pochu> Arby: sorry for not saying what was wrong, btw
<Arby> pochu: no problem, just means I have to bug you here :)
<Arby> at least that's an easy thing to fix
<pochu> yeah
<Arby> I thought you meant the actual content was wrong.
<Arby> I'll fix it later (probably at weekend)
<pochu> no, I haven't actually looked into it yet
<Arby> I'm at work right now
<pochu> Arby: ok, when you do it attach both a ubuntu->ubuntu and a debian->ubuntu debdiffs :)
<Arby> pochu: ok, thanks for the feedback :)
<AzaTht> how do you keep track of changes you make to debian packages?
<pochu> AzaTht: mentioning them in debian/changelog
<AzaTht> no, I meant more how to handle changes
<pochu> AzaTht: ah, we merge our changes with the Debian package at the beginning of the development cycle (and we sync if possible)
<AzaTht> ok
<AzaTht> a pile of patched in an directory?
<AzaTht> patches*
<charliecb> hi
<charliecb> is there any document which describes the process of syncing the debian-repos with the ubuntu-repos?
<charliecb> i can't find some packages in the ubuntu-repos, but i find the package in the debian-repos..
<charliecb> for example libjava-gnome-java or libjogl-java
<dholbach> charliecb: if the package is not in Ubuntu yet it will be synced automatically in one of the auto-sync runs (if it's not in experimental)
<dholbach> all packages with no ubuntu-local changes will be synced automatically until DebianImportFreeze
<charliecb> dholbach: but i'm waiting since the beginning of intrepid and noting is synced.
<dholbach> is it in non-free or contrib?
<dholbach> in those cases it might need an explicit sync request, but I'm not sure
<\sh> moins
<dholbach> best to ask in #ubuntu-devel
<charliecb> dholbach: one is in non-free, but one not.
<siretart> libjava-gnome-java |    4.0.7-1 | intrepid/universe | amd64, i386
<siretart> libjogl-java |    1.1.1-1 | unstable/non-free | source, all
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess for explicit sync requests
<siretart> so that one would probably need a manual sync request to get it into multiverse
<charliecb> siretart: how do you search? i use packages.ubuntu.com and there i can't find both packages.
<dholbach> hey luisbg
<dholbach> Mr VJ :)
<luisbg> hey dholbach :)
<siretart> charliecb: I prefer rmadison(1) to do those searches. it supports multiple source using '-u ubuntu' or '-u qa' for debian
<luisbg> it was awesome to vj with you guys spinning
<siretart> charliecb: it is part of the 'devscripts' package
<luisbg> dholbach, I want to do it again :)
<dholbach> luisbg: same here - it was just awesome
<charliecb> siretart: dholbach: ok. thank you
<dholbach> charliecb: anytime
<luisbg> dholbach, was your car toed after that?
<dholbach> luisbg: no, on the sunday before when we went to see the club for the first time - we parked in the wrong spot
<dholbach> luisbg: it was for "locals only"
<luisbg> dholbach, :S
<dholbach> 2000 ckz *RING*
<luisbg> ouch!
<huats> hey dholbach
<huats> :)
<dholbach> hiya huats :9
<huats> does anybody can have a look at 180223
<huats> I need some sponsoring there....
<huats> yeah I mean bug 180223
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 180223 in autopano-sift "Incorrect handling of filenames with spaces" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180223
<huats> pochu: sure
<huats> pochu: otherwise I won't ask for a sponsor :)
<norsetto> huats!
<huats> norsetto !!!
<norsetto> huats!!!
<huats> norsetto !!!
<pochu> huats: I've seen many sponsorship requests lately that even failed to build, so nothing surprises me now ;)
<pochu> pochu!
<pochu> :)
<huats> pochu
<huats> !
<huats> ;)
<huats> it is not my kind :)
<huats> (well I guess an error can happen but I use to test everything...)
<huats> (and if I want to become a MOTU one day, I have to take great care of my sponsorhip requests.... so let's start from the beginning)
<pochu> that's a very inteligent position :)
<directhex> maybe a merge for something in main wasn't the best place to start a packaging career
<slytherin> when is the next revu day?
<directhex> oh, on a related note, what's the explicit policy regarding updates & backports for packages in main?
<pochu> for backports, same as for universe
<slytherin> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<pochu> slytherin: no idea, ask nixternal :)
<directhex> backports are for "primarily desktop applications"?
<slytherin> directhex: not necessary, as long as you follow the policy and jdong is willing to put effort you can request backport for any application. :-)
<directhex> i'll wait until (if?) the intrepid package gets merged before i bug him
<norsetto> huats: I have got some boring stuff you may want to help with?
<Hobbsee> we're advertising boring stuff now?
<norsetto> Hobbsee: marketing strategy
<Hobbsee> norsetto: i figured, but do you think it'll work?
<norsetto> Hobbsee: what you don't know is that I have a bottle of Armagnac on the other hand ...
<Hobbsee> norsetto: ahhhh.
<Hobbsee> norsetto: my Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!â¢ conquers it, like it does anything else, so i don't need to worry, but i see your point.
<norsetto> !long-pointy-stick
<ubottu> norsetto: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<norsetto> hmmmmm
<Hobbsee> !Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!â¢
<ubottu> Hobbsee: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<Hobbsee> !hobbsee
<ubottu> I phear the stick so shhhhh
<norsetto> lol
<Hobbsee> !-hobbsee
<ubottu> hobbsee has no aliases - added by ompaul on 2007-05-10 14:42:04
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<norsetto> heya sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi norsetto
<norsetto> ah, this place is so calm and relaxing without sebner
<nhandler> Do you guys think that adding dh_icons is a big enough change to require a merge? Or should that change be dropped in order to do a sync?
<norsetto> nhandler: has this been reported to debian?
<nhandler> norsetto: The patch from the last Ubuntu version was submitted to Debian
<sebner> norsetto: :( :( :( I'm here :P But I'm less stupid as you suggested ;)
<sebner> hoi sistpoty|work
<norsetto> nhandler: and? Do they give a reason for not including it?
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<huats> norsetto: sure
<huats> if I can
<norsetto> sebner: :-)
<huats> sorry for the delay, I was away (I need some food :))
<norsetto> huats: I thoughts so ;-) We are almost finished with the ocaml transition, all that is left is few packages which needs a rebuild test
<huats> sure
<huats> I'll have a look at it
<huats> ...
<huats> do you have any pointer ?
<Hobbsee> they allow food in the dungeon?
<norsetto> huats: you will find them in ubuntuwire, they show up as depends failed
<huats> :)
<huats> ok
<huats> I will
<huats> I'll have a look in the afternoon
<norsetto> huats: sure, thanks for helping
<huats> norsetto: my pleasure :)
<norsetto> huats: and now I think _I_ go to eat something
<Hobbsee> norsetto: how many bugs are still open?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: nope, too many.  no food for you.  *cracks whip*
<norsetto> Hobbsee: only about 50 000
<Hobbsee> definetly too many.  fix the bugs instead of food.
 * ajmitch is waiting for Hobbsee to fix the rest
<ajmitch> surely you'll be leading by example
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no, i lead by cracking the whip and such.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: anyway, quiet you, else i'll go back to handing you 10x diffs at a time for you to upload.
<ajmitch> but you can upload them yourself!
 * ajmitch has this wonderful mail folder called /dev/null
<Hobbsee> i know, but it's more fun to make you do them.
<ajmitch> good luck there
 * norsetto <- food
<\sh> phew
<\sh> hard day
<sistpoty|work> s/hard/hot/ for me *sweat*
 * Hobbsee dumps the two of you in the ocean.
<sistpoty|work> thanks, Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: you're welcome.  cooler now?
<sistpoty|work> indeed :)
<nhandler> So norsetto, do you have an answer about whether or not adding dh_icons is significant enough to need a merge? Or should it be dropped for a sync?
<Hobbsee> last i knew, it should be merged still
<nhandler> Hobbsee: Ok, thanks. I'll upload the debdiff. Worst case scenario is that it isn't used, and the package is synced instead
<Hobbsee> nhandler: it's a change which makes the gnome cache more efficient, so i don't think it's something that we want to get rid of
<Hobbsee> nhandler: although a dh_iconcache --> dh_icons change is fine, fyi
<nhandler> Hobsee: The actual change was adding dh_iconcache. I was told that it was obsolete (on a previous merge), so I replaced iot with dh_icons.
<RainCT> (it doesn't only make it more efficient, but in some cases there are icons which aren't even shown if dh_icons isn't used)
<nhandler> Hobsee: RainCT: Thanks for your help. I submitted a debdiff for the package
<Hobbsee> RainCT: ah, i stand corrected.
<RainCT> btw, needs-packaging bugs (which are being reviewed on REVU) shouldn't have u-u-s subscribed, or?
<RainCT> (there are some in the sponsors queue)
<Hobbsee> don't ask me, i'm not the head anymore :)
<Hobbsee> check what the doc says
<directhex> woo, won my gpl violation complaint
<lukehasnoname> who was breaking it?
<directhex> taiwanese tv card manufacturer Compro
<lukehasnoname> rofl
<pdlnhr1> can anyone explain why ff3 was removed this morning?  or point to a ticket giving a good reason.  if i remember the release notes for 8.04 firefox3 was part of the plan... .
 * erUSUL joins pdlnhr1 in the question
<erUSUL> and i add why the same happened to me with openoffice.org packages (among other things that went as dependencies)
<soren> pdlnhr1: Removed?
<pdlnhr1> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/804features/
<pdlnhr1> yeah... firefox3 was removed this morning on update
<dholbach> some translation pack packages are being held on my amd64 at the moment - if I'd dist-upgrade now, it's remove a bunch translation packages - is that the problem you're talking about?
<soren> I didn't think update-manager would let you remove things..
<dholbach> no, it shouldn't
<soren> Oh, you're apt-get dist-upgrading?
<pdlnhr1> soren: it came through as a partial-upgrade
<pdlnhr1> nope... i clicked the little update icon in the corner
<pdlnhr1> i am not the only one erUSUL had the same experience
<erUSUL> dholbach: yeah a bunch of packages included firefox 3 and openoffice.org packages (with language packs and another related packages)
<pdlnhr1> i thought ff3 was a feature of 8.04  which if i recall is LTS  which is why we waited to upgrade till now, and it took a while to get all the plugins working correctly again in ff and to have it just remove REALLY sucked...   just seems bad form to me
<erUSUL> soren: if you accet the so called "partial upgrade" it will do
<erUSUL> accept*
<dholbach> what does    dpkg -l firefox    say?
<erUSUL> dholbach: can i paste hereÂ¿?
<dholbach> just the last line
<pdlnhr1> http://pastebin.com/m535f62d4
<dholbach> weird - it was really removed - very weird
<pdlnhr1> i just d/l'd it to ~home/firefox and created a symlink   but till this is resolved... i can not let any of my devolpers upgrade their machines
<dholbach> what happens if you run       sudo apt-get install firefox3   ? don't press enter - just see what the upgrader wants to do
<pdlnhr1> E: Couldn't find package firefox3
<dholbach> hu?!
<dholbach> can you pastebin your /etc/apt/sources.list?
<pdlnhr1> yup
<pochu> pdlnhr1, erUSUL: are you running -proposed?
<erUSUL> dholbach: sudo apt-get install firefox-3.0  just wroked !@#!@#
<erUSUL> pochu: yep
<pdlnhr1> http://pastebin.com/d244764b4
<dholbach> erUSUL: which packages did it want to remove or change?
<pochu> right, that's because xulrunner 3.0rc1 / firefox3.0 rc1 and many other packages have been updated there, and they weren't/aren't built yet
<erUSUL> dholbach: know i only have to reinstall the language packas openoffice.org and what not :|
<pdlnhr1> i am not anymore... because i don't want it to happen again.. but up to an hour ago i was running proposed
<pochu> either don't update until it doesn't want to remove anything, or don't use -proposed :)
<erUSUL> dholbach: hard to say or remember and i do not run "script" ...
<dholbach> erUSUL: use         "gksu gnome-language-selector"         it should do it all for you
<erUSUL> dholbach: i know... ;)
<pochu> (or use update-manager)
<dholbach> the problem with the language stuff in -proposed should be shaken out in some hours
<dholbach> I'd suggest what pochu said
<erUSUL> pochu: update-manager does remove the packages and the proposed packages that depend on other packages has to be uploaded at once if not people can not test the packages
<pochu> erUSUL: oh, it removes packages? that's weird
<erUSUL> pochu: it offers what it calls a "Partial Upgrade" and if you accept it removes the packages
<pochu> ah, indeed
<erUSUL> pochu: it is true that doing dist-upgrade just makes things worse :|
<pdlnhr1> well... i guess it is a known issue now... not much i can do about it... ill have to wait till they re add it to the repos
<pdlnhr1> but i won't be doing any updates on any of our developers machines for a while
<pochu> luckily end users aren't supposed to use -proposed, and you guys know how to fix things :)
<pochu> and this won't (shouldn't) happen in -updates
<pdlnhr1> pochu:  yeah.. but it alows us to test out software and file bug reports
<pdlnhr1> i guess it is a catch 22
<pochu> pdlnhr1: right, I guess update-manager could be more verbose when it's going to remove packages...
<pdlnhr1> pochu:  well... not much else to be said on the subject... thanks for letting me vent...  i will keep an eye out for it to be re added
<erUSUL> pochu: it does says that it will remove packages but how do i know if that's a required step on the "Partial Upgrade" thing or is just a defect on update manager??
<pochu> erUSUL: good point. I guess it could tell what packages it's going to remove. does that make sense?
<pochu> erUSUL: so in this case you would have seen it was going to remove firefox and you would have canceled the update
<pdlnhr1> pochu:  it tells you... but only after it had started the partial upgrade
<pdlnhr1> personally.. i thought it was going to replace it with RC1
<erUSUL> pochu: the fact is that i saw that it would remove this things but i though (and i guess i was not the only one) that the removing of this packages was a needed step on the "Partial Upgrade"
<erUSUL> pochu: the gui of the partial upgrade is like the one you face on a dist-upgrade and in a dist-upgrade packages get removed . i just though that this was a similar case (packages will be removed and others newly installed)
<pochu> erUSUL, pdlnhr1: ok, thanks for your feedback. I've told about this issue to the maintainer of update-manager and he can reproduce it, so hopefully he will be able to fix/improve it. I've also forwarded your commends to him
<pdlnhr1> pochu:  thanks.... have a great day all....
<erUSUL> pochu: thanks; much apreciated
<huats> trying to build a java package, I run into "You must specify a valid JAVA_HOME or JAVACMD!"  while I use debuild -S -sa
<huats> does anybody has faced that before ?
<a|wen> huats: you probably use java in the clean target, and the java executable want's the JAVA_HOME env variable set
<pochu> anybody using hardy + vinagre?
<a|wen> how do i request a backport, if a small dependency change is needed in debian/controls ... do a normal backport request and attach the debdiff? and what should the version numbering then be?
<huats> a|wen: it is using java in the clean target
<pochu> a|wen: what's that change? maybe a backport of another package avoids needing to change it
<huats> so I need to have JAVA_HOME set in my env ?
<a|wen> pochu: it's libqt4-dev ... ahh, but I see that a correct version is already in backports, then it should be okay, or?
<pochu> I think so
<pochu> but I'm not a backporter :)
<a|wen> huats: i should think so; are you running debuild using sudo, then that might be why you don't have it
<a|wen> pochu: he :) ... do you know if the PPA's include backport packages, so I can test if it builds?
<Hobbsee> a|wen: they don't.
 * a|wen considers making himself a backport pbuilder to hardy
<huats> a|wen: no
<huats> a|wen: using my regular user
<a|wen> huats: then you might have luck setting a JAVA_HOME env variable
<huats> pochu: I have corrected the gnome-subtitles debdiff to include the maintener field
<huats> ...
<huats> a|wen: I'll do it
<kirkland> So I merged the LTP package for Hardy, which has been orphaned by Debian.  A couple of Debian guys responded to a post of mine, asking if I would be willing/interested in taking over maintenance of the Debian.  What's involved with Debianizing an Ubuntu package?
<james_w> kirkland: not a lot if it is already in Debian
<kirkland> james_w: yup, already in Debian
<kirkland> james_w: just several years out of sync with mainline
<james_w> it's just a matter of watching over bug reports, packaging the new upstream releases and finding a sponsor for them.
<kirkland> james_w: the Ubuntu one is several years more modern
<james_w> ah, in that case testing the Ubuntu packages on Debian and getting a sponsor to push them back is probably a good start.
<kirkland> james_w: my question is more about what I need to do to the Ubuntu package to prepare it for upload to the Debian repo
<james_w> whatever it takes to make it work there :-)
<james_w> some people would want to see a non-Ubuntu version number to sponsor it.
<james_w> others would want no reference to Ubuntu in the changelogs, but that's a bit silly.
<james_w> the other thing would be updating Maintainer: in debian/control to be you.
<kirkland> james_w: okay, those 2 things are easy
<james_w> the only other thing would be Debian policy things, but your changelog doesn't hint about anything bad in that area.
<kirkland> james_w: right, okay
<bobbo> dholbach: ping
<lukehasnoname> pong
<dholbach> bobbo: pong - about to leave in a bit though
<bobbo> dholbach: it'll be quick :)
<bobbo> dholbach: in Bug #195196, when i upload the fixed version should i upload a debdiff against the old Ubuntu version or the new diff.gz?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 195196 in graphmonkey "graphmonkey: Upgrade to new upstream release (1.7)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195196
<dholbach> bobbo: the .diff.gz should be enough
<bobbo> dholbach: ok thanks :)
<dholbach> rock on
<herzi> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> herzi: pong
<herzi> dholbach: any chance to call you on the phone for ~20mins?
<lukehasnoname> Bug #205815
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 205815 in monodevelop "Monodevelop in hardy doesn't install gmcs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205815
<lukehasnoname> If someone could fix that
<lukehasnoname> or tell me how to >_>
<devfil> lukehasnoname: mono-gmcs is reccomended
<lukehasnoname> I see that. Do recommended packages get isntalled by default?
<slangasek> Laney: I have no attachments to the pdns merge, you're welcome to it
<lukehasnoname> Because the compiler is rather necessary
<devfil> lukehasnoname: ok, I will fix the bug
<lukehasnoname> devfil: I appreciate it. Also, I just discovered how you right click in Synaptic to see recommended/suggested packages
<devfil> lukehasnoname: I can use debconf to ask if user want to install gmcs or not, I think this is the best think to do
<lukehasnoname> Eh, I suppose that does maximize user control. I personally can't see why someone would want the IDE without the *only* compiler for the language.
<lukehasnoname> C# in this case
<devfil> lukehasnoname: you're right
<lukehasnoname> Don't quit on me, roak
<RoAkSoAx> ?
<lukehasnoname> RoAkSoAx quit ("Leaving")
<RoAkSoAx> lukehasnoname, closed by mistake my xchat app :P
<lukehasnoname> ah
<jpds> lukehasnoname: has to show off his new cloak
<jpds> ;-)
<RoAkSoAx> jpds, hahaha lol :P didn't recognize you with that nickname :P
<jpds> RoAkSoAx: heh.
<RoAkSoAx> xD
<lukehasnoname> xchat, hmmm
<lukehasnoname> I use pidgin on my linux machine, and mibbit.com on my work machine
<kirkland> can someone refresh the REVU uploaders keyring ?
<jpds> kirkland: one moment please
<jpds> kirkland: Done.
<kirkland> jpds: gracias!
<jpds> kirkland: De nada.
<emgent> heya
<devfil> lukehasnoname: I added a debdiff to the bug
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Iulian> Hello bddebian.
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Iulian, sistpoty|work
<kirkland> who owns http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/index.py ?
<kirkland> very minor feature request for http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/lostpw.py
<kirkland> gpg -d <<EOT ; echo
<kirkland>  .....
<kirkland> could use an EOT at the end of that page
<jpds> kirkland: best ask RainCT about changes
<kirkland> such that the copy and paste works completely
<kirkland> RainCT: ^^^
<kirkland> otherwise, it's a kickass lost-password process ;-)
<jpds> kirkland: Yep, I wish other sites did exactly the same
 * RainCT reads the log
<jpds> however they don't ask for keys.
<kirkland> jpds: true.  for the gpg-savvy among us, there are directories like pgp.mit.edu
<DRebellion> I am making a new package for intrepid, which depends on libqt4-dev version 4.4. However, the intrepid package is only 4.3.4. Not sure where to go from here, any pointers?
<RainCT> kirkland: true.. thanks for the notice :)
<kirkland> RainCT: you bet, nice job.
<kirkland> mathiaz: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ubuntu-virt
<kirkland> soren: also, you might have a look at my REVU for the ubuntu-virt-* metapackages: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ubuntu-virt
<RainCT> kirkland: done
<RainCT> sistpoty|work, siretart: shout if you don't like the change :P
<kirkland> RainCT: cool, thanks
<RainCT> (^ those are the real REVU devs, btw; I joined the team recently)
<mok0> ScottK: hello
 * sistpoty|work hides
<sistpoty|work> thanks RainCT :)
<DRebellion> Does anyone know of anywhere I could get some information about when/if it will be upgraded?
<RainCT> heh, sure thing :)
<Amaranth> DRebellion: Try asking in #kubuntu-devel
<DRebellion> Amaranth, ok, will do.
<siretart> RainCT: sounds good, go ahead!
<jpds> siretart: (I think he has done it) ;)
<siretart> great
<yannick> Hi, is there someone willing to help me to build ekiga SVN on lpia arch? -> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1977524&group_id=204472&atid=989748 packs here: https://launchpad.net/~sevmek/+archive
<ubottu> Sourceforge bug 1977524 "PTLIB fails to buid in lpia arch" [Pri: 5,Open]
 * sistpoty|work heads home
<sistpoty|work> cya
<lukehasnoname> does packages.ubuntu.com get updated automatically?
<lukehasnoname> or is it a static page?
<stdin> lukehasnoname: I can't imagine someone sitting there and updating all the pages manually, so I'd say it's reads some sort of database that get's updated at intervals
<RainCT> lukehasnoname: I think it's static but it's being automatically updated periodicallu
<mok0> On the websites, python-numeric and python-numarray both state to be superseded by NumPy. Is it Ubuntu policy to allow the deprecated modules as (possible) replacements for Numpy??
<RainCT> (but I don't really know so don't trust me too much)
<Zelut> I'm currently building a package with CDBS and I have a app.install and app.docs.
<Zelut> if I want to add two scripts to /etc/acpi/{battery.d,ac.d} should those be added to app.install?
<RainCT> Zelut: yes
<Zelut> RainCT: can you point me to anything regarding app.*? ie; what other app. options are there?
<pochu> look at dh_* manpages
<pochu> e.g. dh_install, dh_installdocs...
<RainCT> Zelut: app.manpages for instance
<Zelut> I think that is the last thing I need to complete my package, is man pages..
<RainCT> Zelut: (and for other ones do what pochu just said.. but iirc there aren't many more)
<Zelut> RainCT: does app.manpages use the same format as app.docs? as in just list the files, not the destinations?
<RainCT> Zelut: yes
<RainCT> Zelut: btw, if the source does only produce one binary package you don't need the app. prefix
<Zelut> ok, I guess I need to finish building the man page and I may have a package for submission for Intrepid
<lukehasnoname> rainct thanks
<RainCT> lukehasnoname: no, thank *you* for your feedback :)
<Zelut> on a somewhat related note to the /etc/acpi/ question.  Does anyone know the order of upstart/rc.d vs /etc/acpi, etc?
<Zelut> mainly I want to make sure the init script created by the package will not run after the acpi events, ya know
<mathiaz> kirkland: and I'm not sure you need the uploaders field in the control file.
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay
<kirkland> mathiaz: leave it out entirely?
<kirkland> mathiaz: I was following a couple of other metapackages i found
<nxvl> kirkland: http://www.googlubuntu.com/
<nxvl> kirkland: is that almost like the search engine you wrote?
<kirkland> nxvl: yeah, looks similar
<nxvl> kirkland: (btw, you have a lot of picture to upload)
<kirkland> nxvl: you still in Paris?
<nxvl> nop
<nxvl> i'm back in Prague
<kirkland> nxvl: oh, dude, please please please tell me you picked up my camer?
<nxvl> camera?
<kirkland> nxvl: shite
<nxvl> you lost it?
<nxvl> if you want i can ask in the hotel
<kirkland> nxvl: yeah, remember we were hanging out on Friday night around the piano?
<kirkland> nxvl: please do
<nxvl> (or you call and i go and pick it up)
<nxvl> oh
<nxvl> yes i saw it
<kirkland> nxvl: red jacket, and black Kodak camera
<nxvl> and left the bottle of pisco in there for you
<kirkland> nxvl: :-)
<Zelut> RainCT: if I'm adding files to /etc/acpi should I add acpi-support as a depends?
<kirkland> nxvl: anyway, please, please ask at the hotel for it
<nxvl> i thought you will be back to pick your stuff
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> i will try to go there
<nxvl> or al least call
<kirkland> nxvl: many, many thanks.
<kirkland> nxvl: i'm trying to find an email address for a manager there, no luck yet
<kirkland> nxvl: I asked on checkout, but i didn't get much help, it was really busy
<nxvl> kirkland: http://towers.corinthia.cz/hotel/en/contacts/
<kirkland> nxvl: wow, how did you find that?
<kirkland> :-)
<nxvl> kirkland: go to the web page, and click in "contacts" in the bottom of the page
<kirkland> nxvl: jeez, i swear i looked for that...  anyway
<nxvl> heh
<kirkland> nxvl: yeah, that search engine is very similar
<kirkland> nxvl: i'll note that it does support the filters/refinements like mine does
<nxvl> when you are desesperate you never find whet you look for
<kirkland> nxvl: yeah, i'm pretty desperate about getting my pictures off of that camera
<kirkland> nxvl: i'm even willing to forgo the camera at this point, if i can at least get the pictures off of it
<RainCT> Zelut: possibly, but I don't really know
<nxvl> my flight leaves tomorrow at 2:40, so i will try to at least call
<nxvl> kirkland: if you have news send me an email if i'm not here
<kirkland> nxvl: thanks, i'm emailing them now
<Zelut> is this anything to worry about? (debuild output:)
<Zelut> dpkg-source: warning: executable mode 0755 of '99-origami-ac.sh' will not be represented in diff
<Zelut> dpkg-source: warning: executable mode 0755 of '99-origami-battery.sh' will not be represented in diff
<nxvl> btw
<nxvl> i saw a photo of me sleeping that day
<nxvl> :@
<geser> Zelut: if it's important that those files are executable make sure they get their x bit back in debian/rules
<kirkland> nxvl: um, i think we call that "passed out" in english :-)
<Zelut> geser: I'm using CDBS so all I have in my rules is filename destination/directory ..
<Zelut> geser: it does not complain about the other files that are being put in place in usr/bin..
<geser> then you can probably ignore it
<nxvl> kirkland: i was just sleeping there because i offer my bed to some guy because i was leaving at 3 am
<Zelut> can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong to get this error in uploading to PPA?
<Zelut> MD5 sum of uploaded file does not match existing file in archive
<Zelut> this is a -0ubuntu2 updated package
<kirkland> mathiaz: so should I fix those two things and upload an update to REVU?
<geser> Zelut: did you used an different .orig.tar.gz than for -0ubuntu1?
<Zelut> geser: I didn't think so, but I'm going to go back and check..
<kirkland> mathiaz: any other feedback while I'm making changes?
<Zelut> geser: that must have been it. accepted now.
<zul> kirkland: can we write a driver that sends a small shock through the internet maybe even an RFC
<kirkland> zul: sounds intriguing!
<sebner> mok0: ehm. how can I attach icon at the wikipage?
<bobbo> is there any documentation on Watch files? I cant find any on the wiki
<slytherin> bobbo: which wiki?
<thekorn> bobbo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#head-50e9a6c8dba7adaa78d9903fa13d4513f32e290c
<Iulian> bobbo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/DebianWatch
<bobbo> slytherin: was talking about the Ubuntu Wiki, but im obviously blind :D
<bobbo> thanks thekorn Iulian LD
<mok0> sebner: In that little pull-down menu
<Iulian> bobbo: It's the same page. :)
<slytherin> bobbo: in case you don't find the page matching to search term you should do full text search
<hoahn> ..
<Iulian> Or google it should be good as well.
<norsetto> bobbo: re watch files for sf.net, pls. have a look at the uscan man page ;-)
<norsetto> bobbo: if you need help, let me know
<bobbo> norsetto: thanks a lot :)
<norsetto> bobbo: no, thanks to you for your help
<mok0> sebner, pull down menu at the top called "More Actions:"
<emgent> norsetto: o/
<norsetto> emgent: X/
<emgent> woow, new style?
<norsetto> somebody ought to tell Canonical employees to not use xls attachments ....
<emgent> hahhaha
<sebner> mok0: thx
<sebner> norsetto: wth?
<kirkland> kees: hey, so I installed Debian unstable in a KVM, and dgot the Ubuntu ltp sources
<kirkland> kees: I fixed up the debian/changelog, bumping up the version, and noting the migration from Ubuntu to Debian
<kirkland> kees: and I fixed the control file, setting the maintainer to myself (as the previous maintainer is AWOL)
<kirkland> kees: I'm testing a build in the Debian KVM now
<kirkland> kees: and I'll follow that up with a test run
<kirkland> kees: once those two are a-okay, I assume I need to build a signed source package and put them somewhere that the debian guys can get them?
<slytherin> kirkland: what are you trying to do exactly?
<kirkland> slytherin: the ltp package in Debian has been orphaned
<kirkland> slytherin: i merged Ubuntu's ltp package up to semi-current upstream release for Hardy
<slytherin> kirkland: so you are trying to to get Ubuntu's package in Debian?
<kirkland> slytherin: well, it's more like i'm offering to take over maintainership of the Debian package
<slytherin> kirkland: Ok.
<kirkland> slytherin: and starting that out by updating the Debian unstable ltp package to something more modern, based on the work i already did for the ubuntu package
<kirkland> slytherin: which is 2+ years newer than the newest debian ltp package
<slytherin> hmm
<kirkland> slytherin: i got a pair of emails from Debian saying "This package has been orphaned. If you still want to collaborate, please
<kirkland> prepare an upload for Debian and take over the package's maintenance.
<kirkland> "
<slytherin> kirkland: Ok. I was just confused what were you trying to do. By the way you can simply create a pbuilder chroot for debian instead of installing Debian in kvm
<kirkland> slytherin: right, i keep around a nice selection of interesting KVM's anyway ;-)
<kees> kirkland: an orig+dsc+diff should be fine.
<kees> kirkland: you'll also want to toss the Ubuntu changes, and make sure it's "Debian only" changelog items.
<kees> kirkland: (the idea being to get a "clean" version into Debian)
<kirkland> kees: hmm, i looked at the changelog and I figured that Debian would want all of the fixes that you and i added in the hardy release cycle
<kirkland> kees: those changes are of value to debian-and-debian-derivatives, IMHO
<kees> kirkland: right, I don't mean remove the details, I mean swap things around so there isn't an Ubuntu revision listed.  Just roll everything up into a new single debian changelog
<kees> *changelog entry
<kirkland> kees: ah, gotcha
<kirkland> kees: okay, i just made one new one at the top saying that
<kirkland> kees: i can collapse the top 3 then into one
<RainCT> OT, does someone know of an easier way to communicate with a process than dbus?
<geser> RainCT: what kind of communication? would fifos work for your purpose?
<RainCT> sending strings to it
<joaopinto> use a regular UNIX IPC mechanisms
<joaopinto> named pipes, sockets, message queues...
<RainCT> ok, I'm reading about that IPC things. thanks
<kirkland> kees: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/ltp.debian/
<kirkland> kees: changelog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/ltp.debian/ltp-20080229/debian/changelog
<mok0> sebner: I don't see your icons...
<kees> kirkland: changelog is missing the -2.1 upload
<kees> kirkland: you can also add "New upstream release (Closes: #420148)." to the changelog
<sebner> mok0: I let it resize first ..
<kirkland> kees: -2.1 upload?
<kees> and "take over maintainership (was orphaned) (Closes: #470091)"
<kirkland> kees: good point on the (Closes: #xxx)
<kees> kirkland: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/l/ltp/current/changelog
<kees> 2.1 NMU on May 9th
<nxvl> kees: did you received your signeg key by mail?
<kees> nxvl: haven't seen anything, no
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> i will upload it directly i need to tune my laptop :S
<nxvl> uploaded
<nxvl> kees: http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x1FFF4BA917063E6D
<kees> nxvl: cool
<kirkland> kees: oh, crap, i neglected that entirely
<norsetto> DktrKranz: do you know what happened to rospozoppo?
<DktrKranz> norsetto, he's busy with university, I guess. Long time no see him :(
<norsetto> DktrKranz: indeed, too bad he is not interested in Ubuntu anymore
<DktrKranz> do you miss his .desktop changes? :)
<norsetto> DktrKranz: not really, they are all coming back as merges now ...
<DktrKranz> heh, need a hand to report back to debian/upstream?
<norsetto> DktrKranz: neah, they are good to keep for new contributors
<norsetto> hint hint
<DktrKranz> new contributors, please ping norsetto to receive sponsorship for such merges, he has lot of experience ;)
<norsetto> DktrKranz: I'll be happy to sponsor those ONLY if they are reported back to Debian
<kirkland> kees: whats the best recommended method to wedge those -2.1 changes in?
<kirkland> kees: merge first?
<mok0> norsetto, are you a DD?
<DktrKranz> norsetto, IIRC, I asked him (and some who contributed in a similar way) to do the same, it's a shame to diverge from "mama" for that
<norsetto> mok0: a destroyer? No I'm simply a TB (tug boat)
<mok0> norsetto: .-P
<mok0> norsetto: I take that as a "no" :-)
<kirkland> kees: those -2.1 changes are against 20060918
<kirkland> kees: the current package I'm working on is 20080229
<kees> kirkland: sure -- but you'll need to make sure that a) the missing changelog appears in your changelog, b) whatever they fixed is fixed in your package too.  :)
<DktrKranz> Debian Destroyer?
<norsetto> DktrKranz: http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/shusn-no/dd-no.htm
 * mok0 likes DD-1 :-)
<mrevell> nixternal: hey, got a moment?
<DktrKranz> norsetto, 404
<mok0> Yeah that server is s..l..o..w!
<mok0> It got motu'd
<norsetto> mok0, DktrKranz: us navy stuff ;-)
<DktrKranz> military secrets?
<mok0> norsetto: ah, you mean they can't afford a decent server :-)
<DktrKranz> we are allies, c'mon guys... let me see!
<norsetto> mok0: not after scottk left them
<mok0> norsetto: yeah all the good stuff is probably in his basement
<DktrKranz> any core-dev sponsors around?
<norsetto> mok0: :-)
<mok0> DktrKranz: try -devel
<DktrKranz> low traffic in there :)
<mok0> DktrKranz: there you are. core-dev's are 9-5 people :-)
<ajmitch> and it's not yet 9am here :)
<DktrKranz> heh
<norsetto> mok0: with a looong midday pause
 * DktrKranz will apply for core-dev, but before... need to finish U.S. White House 2008 campaign successfully
<DktrKranz> vote for me, please!
<mok0> DktrKranz: you mean you're running for President?
<DktrKranz> mok0, I'm not running, I'll kidnap candidates and I'll become the One without too much trouble
<mok0> *pling* lamps light up at the NSA computer center
<DktrKranz> I own NSA, we have root privileges on their systems, they do large use of Universe repository :)
<DktrKranz> mostly amule, they have bandwith :P
<mok0> DktrKranz: heh heh
 * mok0 wanders if Obama uses Ubuntu!
<DktrKranz> let me see popcon
<mok0> we should send him a free CD ;-)
<norsetto> mok0: don't think so, a good USA president will stand by USA industry monopoly ....
<DktrKranz> clinton uses it
<DktrKranz> bill, at least :)
<DktrKranz> RSM for President!
<mok0> RSM?
<DktrKranz> Stallman
<smarter> DktrKranz: RMS then
<DktrKranz> I just switched some letters :)
<DktrKranz> smarter, exactly :P
<smarter> ;)
<mok0> A man with tresses in his beard still does not have a chance...
<mok0> Anyway, RMS doesn't use Ubuntu
<DktrKranz> which one? hurd?
<mok0> I guess
<mok0> correction: I guess not. It doesn't work
<mok0> :-)
<mok0> Actually, he may use Gobuntu
<pwnguin> it works fine as long as you dont want drivers or filesystems bigger than 2GB ;)
<pwnguin> i cant see him not using hurd
<pwnguin> eating dogfood and whatnot
<pwnguin> besides, gnewsense actually does things
<mok0> gnewsense?
<pwnguin> ...
 * mok0 googles
<bimberi> !gnewsense
<ubottu> gNewSense is a GNU/Linux distribution based off Ubuntu with the aim of containing only free software. The Website is http://www.gnewsense.org  -  Support in #gnewsense, NOT #ubuntu
<mok0> Ain't that Gobuntu?
<bimberi> mok0: It pre-dates gobuntu iirc
<mok0> At least it's not gnonsense lol
<bimberi> hehe, a play on 'nuisance' methinks
<mok0> hehe
<ajmitch> hi
 * ajmitch can finally sit down at the keyboard for more than 2 minutes :)
<kirkland> kees: okay, ltp builds now, merged changes from -2.1 release
<kirkland> kees: change log at http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/ltp.debian/ltp-20080229/debian/changelog
<kees> kirkland: \o/
<kirkland> kees: everything here http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/ltp.debian/
<kirkland> kees: so reading mentors.debian, it looks like something similar to our REVU
<kees> kirkland: cool, once you've got it up on mentors, let me know, and I can poke at it with my DD hat on.  Yeah, it's very similar.
<kirkland> kees: it looks to be more for new packages, rather than an updated package
<kees> kirkland: it's for updates too
<kirkland> kees: but i'll push it anyway
<kirkland> kees: okay
<kirkland> kees: i have an account now
<kirkland> kees: http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/maintainer-packages?action=details;package=ltp
<kirkland> slangasek: i created lp:~kirkland/grub/grub.32216, applied my patch, committed locally, but the bzr push won't take
<kirkland> bzr: ERROR: Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()
<kirkland> slangasek: let me try the bzr+ssh method....
<slangasek> kirkland: you'll have to switch it to bzr+ssh first before you can push, yes
<kirkland> slangasek: ah, sorry
<kirkland> the new lp: syntax in launchpad is not very copy-and-paste friendly :-(
<kirkland> for pushing anyway
<james_w> kirkland: run "bzr lp-login" and it should all work
<kirkland> james_w: No Launchpad user ID configured.
<kirkland> james_w: something missing in .bazaar/bazaar.conf ?
<james_w> kirkland: "bzr lp-login kirkland" sorry
<james_w> or rather your real user id.
<kirkland> james_w: thanks
<james_w> kirkland: bzr 1.4 (intrepid has 1.5) tries to warn you about this.
<kirkland> james_w: thanks
 * slangasek glares at his computer for suddenly becoming reluctant to spawn new processes
<a|wen> slangasek: hit pid_max? ;)
<kirkland> slangasek: sorry, just realized I switched channels on you (again) .... lp:~kirkland/grub/grub.32216
<slangasek> a|wen: a little hard to say
<slangasek> responsiveness of existing processes is also far below what it seems it ought to be given the load average
 * ajmitch must get some flash-blocking addon for firefox, this site is killing my laptop
<kirkland> slangasek: I found a "propose for merging" link, so I did that ;-)
<a|wen> slangasek: you could check if your number of processes gets close to 32K, then it could be it ... but must admit, that it is a rare case :)
<slangasek> kirkland: sounds good :)
<slangasek> a|wen: 178 processes
<a|wen> slangasek: that definately leaves some room to the 32K ... i think you're right about the load average
<LaserJock> siretart: still up?
<slangasek> a|wen: and I meant that it was a little hard to say because it's hard to check the process count when shells are going dead on me left and right :P
 * a|wen wonders what  slangasek does to run his box that hard :P
<a|wen> night people
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-30
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Zelut> can anyone re-sync the keys?  I'd like to put something on REVU
<ajmitch> sure, have you just joined the team?
<Zelut> i joined a few hours ago, yeah,
<ajmitch> ok, will resync now
<Zelut> ok. uploaded.  /me sits and waits for the thrashing.
<ajmitch> Zelut: fwiw, it's done
<Zelut> ajmitch: figured as much. I uploaded a few minutes ago.. waiting on an email re: acceptance.
<ajmitch> you won't get one
<ajmitch> unless that's been changed lately :)
<Zelut> I guess I'm used to getting an email from PPA uploads.  assumed REVU'd do the same.
<ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=origami ?
<Zelut> yeah
 * ajmitch must go into a meeting, brb
<artfwo> Hello! Could anyone please look at bug 235696 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 235696 in patchage "[upgrade] upgrade to 0.4.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/235696
<LaserJock> wgrant: you happen to be up?
<ajmitch> quick! it's a LaserJock!
<LaserJock> heh
 * RAOF mobs LaserJock.
<wgrant> LaserJock: I got back from uni about 2 minutes ago. Nice timing.
<ajmitch> wgrant: careful, you've picked up a stalker
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha >:-)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: You are addicted aren't you.
<ajmitch> He can stop anytime he wants...
<LaserJock> surrrre
<nixternal> LaserJock: come on man, take your little vacation already :P
<LaserJock> nixternal: I'm *trying*
<nixternal> doesn't look like you are trying
<LaserJock> nixternal: "leaving gracefully"
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> ya right, trying to leave is more like it
<nixternal> you are addicted dude, face the facts already
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<RoAkSoAx> we are all additcs :P
<ajmitch> RoAkSoAx: but you're not trying to escape the asylum like LaserJock
<RoAkSoAx> hahahaha LoooooL!!!
<RoAkSoAx> is he that old?
<ajmitch> old? no, not really
<RoAkSoAx> so?
<ajmitch> asylum = place for insane people
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ? I'm ancient!
<ScottK> LaserJock: You are a young pup.
<ScottK> Speaking of which, this old fart needs to get to bed.
<ScottK> Good night.
<RoAkSoAx> ajmitch: yeah but it is also a shelter so won't exactly be for insane ppl
<ajmitch> LaserJock: compared to our 'senior' members, not so old :)
<RoAkSoAx> or at least that's what the dictionary says :P
<ajmitch>        2: a hospital for mentally incompetent or unbalanced person
<ajmitch> not the first meaning listed, but one that's common enough these days
 * bddebian heard that!
<ajmitch> and it describes MOTU quite well
<ajmitch> doesn't it, bddebian ?
<bddebian> Yep :)
<RoAkSoAx> i have: #  A place offering protection and safety; a shelter.
<RoAkSoAx> # A place, such as a church, formerly constituting an inviolable refuge for criminals or debtors.
<RAOF> Yeah; the two meanings are intertwined.
<ajmitch> if we need to debate the meaning of the phrase, then perhaps we are mad :)
<RAOF> o/` The lunatics are on the grass o/`
<bddebian> The inmates are running the asylum!
<Hobbsee> you're all old.
<ajmitch> says you
<bddebian> heh
<Hobbsee> yes.
<ajmitch> kids these days, no respect
<RoAkSoAx> i'm not... i'm about tu turn 23 :P
 * Hobbsee pinches ajmitch's walking stick
<wgrant> RoAkSoAx: 23 is ancient.
<ajmitch> hey now, I was about to use that to smack some sense into you
<Hobbsee> i know.
<RoAkSoAx> wgrant: yeah i know :( lol hahah nah!! i'm still young to party all the time!! as in Miami After Hours!!!
 * ajmitch is glad it's a long weekend
<ajmitch> beer o'clock is here
<LaserJock> bah, C++ is driving me nuts! I really need to go to the asylum
<RoAkSoAx> the last time i've touched C++ was 3 years ago xD
<Ahmuck> evening
<dholbach> good morning
<RoAkSoAx> g'morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi RoAkSoAx
<RoAkSoAx> well i'm going to sleep, g'night all ;)
<Ahmuck> i'm looking for a mentor for packaging
<nixternal> dholbach: mornin'
<dholbach> heya nixternal
<nixternal> kde4 packages are wearing me out
<nixternal> I have like 10 done with about 108403804328432080 more to go
<dholbach> nixternal: 4.1?
<nixternal> ya
<dholbach> nixternal: czessi told me last night he was working with apachelogger on them?
<nixternal> beta 1 packages
<nixternal> they better not
<dholbach> something about "stuff building, but not in pbuilder" *shrug*
<nixternal> noobs
<nixternal> builds in pbuilder just fine
<dholbach> team communication FTW! :-)
<nixternal> that's what they get for not adding automoc to their deps :)
<nixternal> nah, I think they know I was doing the packages for hardy and putting them in a ppa
<dholbach> alright - just wanted to let you know since I heard him talking about it last night
<nixternal> ya, just asked apachelogger about them in #kubuntu-devel
<nixternal> there is no way apachelogger is doing anything right now besides partying and doing LinuxTag and whatever else is going on
<dholbach> :)
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> hi geser
<mok0> Ahmuck: just ask your questions here
<SATA> can anybody help me with debian installer in ubuntu?
<SATA> can anybody explain how the debian-installer works in ubuntu?
<dholbach> SATA: try #ubuntu-installer - and I guess it'd help if your question was more specific than that :)
<SATA> dholbach, thanx
<artfwo> Hi again! When packaging shared libraries, is it required to include debian/shlibs or DEB_SHLIBDEP_* in rules? Or does the default dh_shlibdeps behaviour suffice for simple packages?
<slangasek> artfwo: the default dh_shlibdeps behavior is insufficient, it's impossible for any default to be correct for all libraries (and the actual default ists only correct for libraries that never undergo ABI changes)
<artfwo> slangasek: ok, thanks!
<huats> morning morning
<Karadog> What time is there?
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<artfwo> what is the point of implementing get-orig-source target, if uscan can (and does by default) download new upstream versions?
<sistpoty|work> artfwo: it's there, if the orig-tarball needs to be mangled (e.g. remove non-free bits, or upstream only provides a .tar.bz2)
<artfwo> sistpoty|work: but if everything is okay with the orig tarball, no need for this target, right?
<sistpoty|work> artfwo: yes, then you don't need it
<artfwo> ok, thanks for clarifying this!
<sistpoty|work> np
<norsetto> anyone, please feel free to add/remove/comment bug 214727
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 214727 in tovid "mplayer should be in universe" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/214727
<emgent> morning
<norsetto> emgent: its 13:00 where you are, this hardly qualifies for a morning ;-)
<pochu> jdong: hi, will you upload the fix in bug 221973 to Intrepid?
<pochu> hey emgent
<emgent> norsetto: hehehe i know :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221973 in smstools "smstools folder under /var/run isn't recreated after reboot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221973
<emgent> heya pochu :)
<emgent> omg, alias work today!
<norsetto> laga: thx for checking
<norsetto> laga: I guess mythbuntu-meta should be invalid too then
<laga> norsetto: yeah.. do you want to set it to invalid?
<norsetto> laga: done it already :-)
<laga> yay
<norsetto> How come is so quiet in here? Where is sebner?
<norsetto> sebner: thx for taking care of ocaml-ladspa
<mok0> that noisy youngster
<sebner> norsetto: first complaining then thanking :P
<norsetto> mok0: I heard "gangster" :-)?
<mok0> hehe
<sebner> norsetto: you should say: Thanks for taking care of ocaml-* :P
<mok0> any news about the sru team, after laserjock's exit?
<norsetto> sebner: ahhh, there are more ....
<norsetto> sebner: did you do gmetadom by any chance?
<norsetto> mok0: DktrKranz seem to have solved his ISP troubles and is back full steam
<sebner> norsetto: never touched that, why?
<lucas> mp
<mok0> norsetto: ah good. They have quite a long queue over there
<lucas> oops
<norsetto> sebner: ok, that is a needed ocaml merge/sync too which is part of the transition
<mok0> norsetto: do you know if there's an Ubuntu policy on python-numpy?
<norsetto> sebner: its in main, thought you may like to do something for main too
<sebner> norsetto: I'm afraid of main ^^
<norsetto> mok0: no idea, all I know is that its in the DPMT
<mok0> sebner: yes, be afraid, be very afraid...
<mok0> norsetto: ok
<sebner> mok0: hrhr, why?
<sebner> norsetto: Looks like a sync. I'll check and file a bug later, ok?
<norsetto> sebner: sure
<sebner> fine
<mok0> I have a merge where the depends: python-numpy is replaced (in Ubuntu) by: python-numpy | python-numeric-ext | python-numarray-ext. I don't think that is right
<norsetto> mok0: perhaps scottk knows more, doko should certainly know
<mok0> ScottK? Hello?
<mok0> doko?
<mok0> sebner, what happened to your icon?
<POX__> http://wiki.debian.org/python-numpy - search for "deprecated"
<sebner> mok0: will be uploaded at afternoon ;) And it's not *my* icon. I'm just the uploader ^^
<POX__> related link: http://wiki.debian.org/python-scipy
<mok0> POX__: yes exactly, that's why I wondered
<doko> mok0, norsetto: IMO it should be dropped
<mok0> doko: thanks! Me too
<norsetto> hi POX__, any news about pyelemental?
<POX__> didn't I upload it already?
<norsetto> POX__: hmmm, I didn't see anything, shouldn't be tagged before?
<norsetto> POX__: thanks for all your comments and the work youd did btw, appreciated it
<sebner> norsetto: subscribed ubuntu main sponsors. what a feeling ^^
<norsetto> sebner: now be VERY afraid :-)
<sebner> norsetto: now a geek core-dev will come with a hammer and pull it down on my head ^^
<sebner> mok0: what's the size for the icons?
<POX__> norsetto: your last change in SVN is 19h old, did you ask me to upload it? Sorry, I have so many RFS request that I don't really remember what I uploaded and what not, I can check what I complained about when I'll be back home (I'm at work right now)
<norsetto> POX__: no problem, I understand, as I said I appreciate what your are doing! Just let me know if I should so something on my side and I will
<POX__> norsetto: if don't get ACCEPTED mail or a reply with a list of things to fix from me within 24h, mail me again
<norsetto> POX__: will do
<mok0> sebner: as far as I can see, they are displayed at 14x14, but most are actuall 16x16
<highvoltage> hey norsetto, how's it going?
<norsetto> heya highvoltage! going well, and you?
<ScottK> mok0: Did you get your question answered?
<highvoltage> norsetto: doing well, just came out of being locked into a cold server room for 2 hours!
<norsetto> highvoltage: can we change places? We are already above 30 C here ....
<sebner> mok0: hmm, the designer refuses to send/allow me to upload 16x16 ones. he thought the have to be bigger
<mok0> sebner: It is quite difficult to make something that small, in fact
<mok0> sebner: upload them in the size you have
<mok0> sebner: they might be usable for desktop icons, document types or something
<highvoltage> norsetto: unfortunately, there is a bug in linux-image-generic-2.6.24.16.18 that breaks my teleporation modules :0/
<Lutin> StevenK: is there a particular reason why bluez-hcip b-d on bluez-libs >= 3.20 ?
<Lutin> StevenK: I meant bluez-hcidump
<norsetto> highvoltage: argh, always blame it on the kernel :-)!
<StevenK> Probably so I could upload both of them at the same time
<sebner> mok0: too big I suppose but I will take care of that
<norsetto> oh well, its about time I eat something
<sebner> hf norsetto
<norsetto> sebner: hf == have fun || hf == have food ?
<sebner> norsetto: first one but take the one you like more ^^
 * norsetto takes hf&f
<sebner> ^^
<Lutin> StevenK: ok, so this can be happily dropped and the package synced, I presume
<StevenK> Lutin: Works for me
<Lutin> StevenK: okay
<slytherin> norsetto: dvdrip also depends on tanscode which is in multiverse, so I believe it should stay in multiverse
<slytherin> norsetto: also odmrip and devede depend on mencoder which is in multiverse.
<lukehasnoname> Good Morning
<sistpoty|work> hm... seems like I didn't miss the motu-meeting *g*
<sistpoty|work> (as I've just been afk for half an hour)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: today was motu meeting? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhh xD
<sistpoty|work> sebner: erm, should have been, I guess
<sistpoty|work> (or should still take place)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: started 45 mins ago. Let's check
<sistpoty|work> MOTU meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now (starting late) so please join #ubuntu-meeting
<emgent> sebner: so.. mail alias work now
<sebner> emgent: /here too. \o/
<huats> is there a way to get the configure line of a package ?
<huats> I am interested to know the current configure options...
<directhex> look at debian/rules in the package
<norsetto> slytherin: mencoder is a binary of mplayer, so its fine
<slytherin> norsetto: Ok. Then just dvdrip task is invalid unless transcode is also going to be moved to universe
<norsetto> slytherin: yes, I'm checking that right now
<norsetto> slytherin: yes, dvdrip should remain in multiverse, can you please mark it invalid in bug 214727? Thanks!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 214727 in tovid "mplayer should be in universe" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/214727
<huats> norsetto: norsetto !!!
<huats> :)
<norsetto> huats !!!!
<geser> sebner: I'll try to process your open sync/merges today
<sebner> geser: kk. no stress
<bddebian> Heya gang
<wgrant> norsetto: I believe we need to have mplayer and vlc in multiverse due to patents.
<wgrant> Debian disables all encoding, so can get away with them in main.
<wgrant> But we don't want to do that.
<norsetto> wgrant: ah!
<geser> bddebian: Boo!
<bddebian> :-) Heya geser
<norsetto> wgrant: ok, if thats true than the whole issue is closed
<norsetto> wgrant: this means we have to keep a constant delta, or to make it an ubuntu package
<wgrant> norsetto: mplayer-fonts deserves closer inspection - sounds like it wants to be kicked from the archive entirely.
<wgrant> norsetto: We have an enormous delta, and have had for several releases.
<wgrant> Our package isn't derived from Debian at all.
<geser> norsetto: is the ocaml transition completed?
<norsetto> wgrant: you are right, I should have checked it better
<norsetto> wgrant: ok, I'll close the whole issue then, or you want to do it yourself?
<wgrant> norsetto: I'm about to head off to bed, so can you please do it?
<norsetto> geser: almost but not quite
<norsetto> wgrant: ok, thanks for checking it out, I'm only sorry I wasted people time for nothing
<wgrant> norsetto: A number of people have made the mistake before - LP really needs a per-source whiteboard.
<mok0> Is there an apt-* program to install a .deb?
<norsetto> mok0: apt-get ?
<norsetto> mok0: seriously :-)
<mok0> norsetto: I build a .deb, and it has a bunch of dependencies
<mok0> I want to install my new deb, plus all dependencies
<norsetto> mok0: for that I use apt-get and sometime (rarely) gdebi
<mok0> norsetto: but apt-get won't accept a package
<mok0> norsetto: I mean a deb
<Hobbsee> mok0: build a repository, and install it via that?
<norsetto> mok0: you have to have a local repo, I have it anyhow since I build quite a number of packages locally
<mok0> Hobbsee: that's what I was hoping to avoid :-)
<Hobbsee> mok0: there's ppa, too...
<norsetto> mok0: well, then use gdebi
<mok0> Hobbsee: my problem is this: I've done a merge, and I want to test the package. I don't want to put it in the ppa or a local repo. Really.
<Hobbsee> mok0: why, though?
<norsetto> mok0: I do it all the time, whats the deal?
<sistpoty|work> mok0: dpkg -i *deb; apt-get -f install works for me quite good
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: s/good/well/ :)
<mok0> sistpoty|work: thanks
<sistpoty|work> np
<mok0> quick & dirty :-)
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: yeah... too hot to write proper English *g*
<Hobbsee> hehe
 * Hobbsee throws sistpoty|work into the ocean again
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: how hot is it there?
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: hm... not too sure, but I'm sweating like mad. maybe ~30Â°C
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: wuss.
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: don't come to au in summer, then
<sistpoty|work> heh
<geser> the weather applet shows for my location 21Â°C and 78% humidity
<norsetto> Hobbsee: don't forget you are talking to an almost viking there
<Hobbsee> norsetto: there is that.
<StevenK> geser: Send it over
<norsetto> Hobbsee: contrary to mok0 which is fully viking ;-)
<mok0> Who me? Viking?
<mok0> It's so hot here my horns have melted
 * norsetto wonders if mok0 has an horned helmet hidden somewhere
<mok0> It's not horned any longer :-P
<norsetto> oh well!
<mok0> They'll grow out, eventually...
<mok0> geser, how about sticking your head out the window? Or is that too un-geeky?
<_ruben> basements dont always have windows
<effie_jayx> hey all, I am having a hard time finding bugs to work on... what do you guys suggest I do. I have read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO/Bugs but most bugs that I seem to be able to handle have all been tackled
<norsetto> effie_jayx: I can gladly pass you some hundreds if you really wish it
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  bring them my way... I can see how I manage...
<norsetto> effie_jayx: I suppose you are not looking for merges or syncs?
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  no really no... I would love to do some merges
<norsetto> effie_jayx: ok, then head out to mom or dad
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  let me find some...
<norsetto> !mom
<ubottu> Factoid mom not found
 * effie_jayx had forgotten about merges... :D
<norsetto> hmmmmm
<norsetto> !merges
<ubottu> Factoid merges not found
<norsetto> !merge
<ubottu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<norsetto> ah, finally ....
<geser> mok0: you mean go to the big room with the open nuclear fusion above?
 * norsetto wonders why Ubuntu Maine-iacs is subscribed to all bugs
<norsetto> Ubuntu Maine-iacs hmmmmm
<effie_jayx> norsetto, what if I want to use dad... I remember it allows me to mark the merge I am working on
<mok0> norsetto: ... I wonder more about all the other creepy names that are subscribed
<norsetto> effie_jayx: personally, I use dad and love it
<effie_jayx> norsetto, I got to like it in my first merge
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  care to share a link?
<norsetto> mok0: like ALVARO VARGAS? Gives me the creeps too :-)
<mok0> norsetto: DaD kicks *ss
<norsetto> !merge | effie_jayx
<ubottu> effie_jayx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<pochu> norsetto: ALVARO VIAGRAS you said? :P
<pochu> sounds like spam ;)
<mok0> norsetto: yeah and osama
<norsetto> pochu: lol
<mok0> I am sure these are spam harvesters
<mok0> how about tbill25642tbjbt
<mok0> very spammy sound to that on
<mok0> one
<pochu> yeah, someone did some research in launchpad-users@
<pochu> and they subscribed almost the same day and have never done anything there...
<pochu> heh
<mok0> They should be cleaned out
<pochu> agreed
<pochu> and there should be two different categories in also notified
<pochu> per project and per package
<mok0> In fact, no one should be able to subscribe to all bugs
<mok0> It doesn't make sense
<pochu> well, for a distribution that makes sense, right
<pochu> (what you said, I mean)
<pochu> they can join ubuntu-bugs@
<mok0> Is that a mailman operated list?
<pochu> mok0: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
<mok0> I have started getting spam on my address after they appeared
<pochu> mok0: ubuntu-bugs - Ubuntu bug tracker changes - HIGH VOLUME
<pochu> HIGH!!
<pochu> YOU'RE WARNED!
<pochu> ;)
<mok0> Hehe
<Hobbsee> mok0: hope you never use an @ubuntu.com address..
<pochu> if you subscribe to that list, your GMail quota will hit it's limit before you can unsubscribe
<mok0> Hobbsee: I don't have one
<mok0> Hobbsee: why is that?
<Hobbsee> mok0: lucky you, then.  they attract spam really badly.
<mok0> Hobbsee: I have a good filter
<Hobbsee> then why do you care about the spam?
<mok0> Only about 1% get through
<Hobbsee> ah
<mok0> Hobbsee: I don't, I've just noticed that my new address has started getting spam after these guys appeared on the bugs list
<persia> mok0: What's your LP account again?
<mok0> mok0?
<mok0> persia: ^
<persia> mok0: You surely do have an @ubuntu.com address, although it may be stuck somehow.
<mok0> persia: Oh, cool
<geser> sebner: did you managed to test-build the evolution-sharp you want to sync in intrepid? it FTBFS for me.
<jpds> anyone have  nifty command to remove all "CVS" dirs from source?
<sistpoty|work> s.th. like find . -name="CVS" -type=d -exec rm  -rf '{}' ';' (not tested, use at own risk)
<mok0> jpds: extract the tar ball with --exclude
<mok0> or find . -name CVS -type d |xargs rm -rf
<jpds> mok0: true
<norsetto> geser: was wondering about ocaml-http, for some devious reasons, the DD made it a debian package, so now if I rebuild it, it bumps the .tar.gz version too ... is that ok?
<jpds> mok0: appears to have worked, thanks and you too sistpoty|work :)
<sistpoty|work> np
<norsetto> geser: I mean, a debian NATIVE package
<mok0> oh, there's a new kernel today
<geser> norsetto: it's normal for native packages, and btw ocaml-http is already rebuild (uploaded 18 min ago)
<sebner> testbuild succeded /here
<mok0> sebner: well done
<norsetto> geser: ok
<sebner> mok0: hmm?
<mok0> sebner: j/k
<sebner> mok0: xD why well done?
<sebner> geser: if it's an error with perl just update your pbuilder intrepid chroot ^^
<mok0> sebner: your test build succeeded :-)
<norsetto> geser: btw, don't attempt ocaml-lastfm yet, it needs ocaml-xmlplaylist which I uploaded this morning
<sebner> mok0: lol
<mok0> wgrant, ping
<norsetto> mok0: he just went to bed
<mok0> norsetto: and his brain is not connected to irc I guess...
<norsetto> mok0: he is dreaming us .. well, nightmaring us rather
<mok0> norsetto: yeah that's what happens when a googlebot is scanning you at night
<geser> sebner: evolution-sharp B-D on evolution-dev which isn't currently installable on intrepid AMD64
<Zelut> can anyone take a look at my package in REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=origami
<sebner> geser: ah. I only have i386 for testing
<geser> sebner: there is builds?
 * geser needs to create a intrepid-i386 pbuilder then
<mok0> When a bug has been fixed in an intrepid upload, I put the (LP: ..) stanza in changelog, which will set it to fix-released. But what if the bug is still valid in the older distributions?
<mario_limonciell> tseliot, where are you at so far on the nvidia stuff?
<sistpoty|work> mok0: then you'll need to open a task for that (it will only close the task for the distribution found in changelog afaik)(
<norsetto> mok0: it will close the one corresponding to the distro used in the changelog
<mok0> You mean open a task for intrepid, or hardy... etc
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: I had made a first (draft quality) package but tjaalton wanted to merge my package with the one in Debian therefore I'm waiting to see the result
<mario_limonciell> tseliot, debian doesn't have dkms yet afaik?
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: no, therefore the result would be more or less like the debian package + DKMS
<sebner> geser: yep
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: I mean, + my work on DKMS
<mario_limonciell> tseliot, hmm okay.
<directhex> saves you the mucking about with a "beta" driver though, since it's not beta anymore
<geser> sebner: please add a comment then and subscribe u-m-s as evolution-sharp is in main
 * mok0 can't figure out how to open a task on ii
<mario_limonciell> tseliot, well i might refer you to take a look at the updated packaging I did for fglrx..
<mario_limonciell> tseliot, it is a lot more readable and maintainable now
<sebner> geser: after gutsy it moved to universe
<mdomsch> debian wishlist for dkms: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=481590
<ubottu> Debian bug 481590 in wnpp "ITP: dkms -- Dynamic Kernel Module Support framework" [Wishlist,Open]
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: sure, can you give me a link to the package?
<mario_limonciell> oh geez, i dont like the packaging for nvidia-glx in debian
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: it's what I told tjaalton the first time I saw it ;)
<mario_limonciell> mdomsch, have you talked to David Paleino?  leveraging the ubuntu packaging would probably be a good start
<geser> sebner: ah, it's was in main when I touch it
<mdomsch> mario_limonciell, no, I haven't - I was actually looking for a wishlist request from years ago; but that one turned up first.
<mdomsch> items must get dropped from the wishlist if no one takes them on after a while
<mdomsch> like this:
<mdomsch> http://www.archivum.info/debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org/2005-05/msg06520.html
<sebner> geser: ROFL. I wanted to testbuilt again and now it also FTBFS. you have bad karma -.- but the first try was successfully since I have a  libevolution3.0-cil_0.17.1-2_i386.deb   -.-
<mario_limonciell> i'll shoot him an email
<mdomsch> http://bugs.debian/org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=311130
<mario_limonciell> tseliot, tjaalton well what is the appealing thing about using the nvidia package in debian then?
<mdomsch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=311130
<ubottu> Debian bug 311130 in wnpp "RFP: dkms - Dynamic Kernel Module Support Framework" [Wishlist,Closed]
<geser> sebner: I ACK'ed is one minute ago.
<mario_limonciell> ah mdomsch
<directhex> sebner, any idea if it's better behaved against mono 1.9.1?
<geser> sebner: I will look that it get builds successfully during my work on the FTBFS list
<sebner> directhex: don't think so
<sebner> geser: k, thanks
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: contributing to debian, I guess
<directhex> sebner, not that intrepid has merged 1.9.1 yet. *cough*
<sebner> directhex: I know. hrhr
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: I can't find the link to the source code of your new fglrx packages
<mario_limonciell> tseliot, well my own opinion would be to redo it locally, and propose the cleaner package to them
<mok0> sistpoty|work: I can't figure out how to set that task
<mario_limonciell> tseliot, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: basically I had stripped down the code of the lrm and adopted the debian naming schemes for the packages.
<mario_limonciell> tseliot, yeah i instead opted to rewrite the whole thing in cdbs
<directhex> superm1's plan sounds better. i tried hacking on lrm too, it was messy
<directhex> very messy
<tseliot> ï»¿directhex: it's not that hard to deal with
<sistpoty|work> mok0: use nominate for a release
<sistpoty|work> mok0: on the left
<directhex> tseliot, there's just so much crap in the debian/rules file, you've got to be alert or you miss something & your build fails at the last minute, due to stray lines for crappy isdn routers or somesuch
<tseliot> ï»¿directhex: the debian/rules was more or less 1300 lines of code but now my debian/rules is about 500
<tseliot> lines
<directhex> tseliot, well, maybe that was the problem, maybe it was that it was taking me over my PPA space allowance to have source & binaries on there. one or t'other
<mok0> sistpoty|work: thanks!
<sistpoty|work> np
 * mok0 thinks "Nominate for release" -> "Create task"
<mok0> "Create release task" even
<tseliot> ï»¿directhex: aah, you're the guy from Oxford, right? I'm going to include the latest NVIDIA driver soon, don't worry
<directhex> tseliot, no hurry, the powers that be demanded i use RHEL for the tesla machines
<lukehasnoname> Demanded CRAP
<directhex> joy of joys, etc etc etc
<directhex> tseliot, you get to do it all again when 177.x leaves NDA-land
<lukehasnoname> what sort of tesla machine?
<tseliot> ï»¿directhex: ?
<directhex> tseliot, the 177.x driver series that officially doesn't exist. it'll be needed to power their next-gen gpus (gt200 chip). and it appears to have a different list of supported gpus to 173.x, just to make life interesting
<mario_limonciell> tseliot, my rules file is only 91 lines :)
<directhex> lukehasnoname, officially, only a S870
<lukehasnoname> I'd love to have one of those
<tseliot> ï»¿directhex: will the current driver become yet another legacy driver?
 * tseliot bangs his head on the desk
<lukehasnoname> The company I work for was putting about 40 blade servers into storage yesterday
<lukehasnoname> I asked for one, to no avail
<directhex> tseliot, i don't know. but the 5000 series definitely isn't supported right now, whereas it is in 173.x
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: that's another kettle of fish ;)
<tseliot> ï»¿directhex: sounds like I'll have a lot of fun in the future...
<directhex> tseliot, yep. hooray!
<directhex> tseliot, i suspect khensu or whoever does the debian nvidia packaging these days will be equally filled with joy
<mario_limonciell> someone needs a nice solution for that.  we can't stand to have nvidia-glx-new-new show up
<directhex> i agree. a rethink is needed!
<mario_limonciell> who should do the rethink though?
<directhex> otherwise tseliot here will have 4 nvidia drivers to play with. per release. assuming ati don't start doing the same thing
<norsetto> mario_limonciell: if we can cope with the new-old-sinagogue and a new-new-debian-python policy I think we can deal twith that too ...
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: there will be nvidia-glx, nvidia-glx-legacy-96xx, ï»¿nvidia-glx-legacy-71xx and maybe ï»¿nvidia-glx-legacy-173xx
<mario_limonciell> geesh
<mario_limonciell> the bigger problem is that some of those releases "do" overlap on the HW they support
<tseliot> ï»¿norsetto: I'm so glad that I have no idea of what you're talking about :-P
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: it's not a problem
 * norsetto votes for nvidia-glx-newer, nvidia-glx-new and nvidia-glx-legacy (future proof ;-) )
<mario_limonciell> well in terms of selecting a driver to be using it could be, say if something is is better supported in one release on this hardware
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: I deal with that problem in EnvyNG already
<mario_limonciell> but better supported in that release with that hardware
<tseliot> ï»¿norsetto: you're forgetting the "even-newer" flavour
<directhex> tseliot, nvidia-glx-newest!
<directhex> ooh, how about nvidia-glx-newissimo!
<mario_limonciell> nvidia-glx-newest+1
<mario_limonciell> oh but + probably isn't valid in the package name
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: we'll have a centralised database for this
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: so that we can store this kind of information on the drivers
<mario_limonciell> tseliot, tjaalton so the other thing that should be done sometime in intrepid, a /usr/share/xserver-xorg/pci/00nvidia should be shipped in each of these packages
<mario_limonciell> inside it, if the correct identifiers are listed, the automatic xorg detection stuff should automatically turn on nvidia instead of nv
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: ok in this last case we the pci-ids would overlap
<tseliot> it's a very interesting idea though
<mario_limonciell> tseliot, well these should be shipped in nvidia-glx nvidia-glx-legacy-XYZ etc
<mario_limonciell> so they are only used when you have a driver selected
<mario_limonciell> i'm going to have to experiment with the right way to do it, but I'll activate it in the fglrx driver too
<directhex> let them overlap - there's got to be a way to deal with overlap simply by saying "you overlap and have the highest version"
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: yes, definitely. We don't want X to try to load a driver which is not installed ;)
<mario_limonciell> i talked  to bryce about this briefly at UDS, and in theory it should work properly
<mario_limonciell> and assuming you installed the proprietary driver you will want it on by default, so it's a good idea
<tseliot> ï»¿directhex: right
<tseliot> ï»¿mario_limonciell: yes, it is a good idea
<norsetto> geser: seems like we only have an handful of ocaml packages left
 * tseliot goes back to work on his new xorg parser
<directhex> sebner, if you want to try building against 1.9.1, grab http://ppa.launchpad.net/directhex/ubuntu/pool/main/m/mono/mono_1.9.1+dfsg-1ubuntu1~dhx1.dsc
<directhex> sebner, builds against hardy or intrepid without modifications
<geser> norsetto: good
<geser> norsetto: some ocaml-* packages got synced today
<norsetto> geser: yes, seen that, in my book we have still gdome2-xslt, lablgtkmathview, ocaml-lastfm and ocaml-vorbis, all the others are building or a sync has been requested
<geser> norsetto: lablgtkmathview waits on some other package but I already forgot which one, could be gdome2-xslt
<norsetto> geser: I think gmetadom
<geser> could be, I only remember a g in the package name
<sebner> directhex: no need to. it's something with evolution ;)
<norsetto> devfil: hi devid, got in touch with asac?
<sebner> geser: Tomorrow I'll file a bug for ocaml-mad and you can ACK it again ^^
<devfil> norsetto: I'm reading the email, thanks
<norsetto> devfil: asac is a good chap, please profit from his expertise. You'll be a mozilla expert in no time ;-)
<devfil> asac: ping
<asac> devfil: hey
<asac> can we chat tomorrow or later? i am on my way out
<devfil> asac: yes sure
<devfil> asac: ping me when you can chat
<mok0> norsetto: you there?
<mok0> ScottK: you there?
<emgent> mok0: you there?
<mok0> emgent: Really I am not sure :-)
<emgent> COOL! :)
<mok0> What can everyone be doing on a boring Friday evening?
 * sistpoty|work is developing novel methods to shoot himself in the foot *g*
<mok0> What to do about a bug where a fix is given, but does not require any patching of the software? The problem is solved for the reporter, but it seems wrong to set the bug to "invalid" or "won't fix".
<sistpoty|work> mok0: hm... do you have a bug number?
<mok0> bug 220137
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 220137 in matplotlib "python: matplotlib window does not show graph in interactive mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220137
<mok0> sistpoty|work: I could go back to TkAgg as the default
<mok0> ... and then close it from changelog
<sistpoty|work> mok0: yes, that might make sense. imho the bug is that GTKagg doesn't work as expected (either by design or from a bug)
<mok0> sistpoty|work: I think that is the better solution. Debian ships with TkAgg
<norsetto> mok0: ah ... there is nothing as a mid-afternoon nap :-)
<mok0> norsetto: while you were napping, my problem was solved :-)
<norsetto> mok0: best way to solve a problem, just sleep over it
<mok0> norsetto: lol
<mok0> You know, when reporting a bug in ubuntu, there should be a checkbox where people had to put the release
<norsetto> mok0: you would be surprised to know how many users don't actually know which release they are running
<norsetto> mok0: so, asking "1) The release of Ubuntu you are using, via 'lsb_release -rd' or System -> About Ubuntu." makes sense
<mario_limonciell> too bad it's not reported in the FF user agent string
<mok0> norsetto: yes
<LaserJock> mario_limonciell: it is, but that's not very reliable
<mario_limonciell> why?
<LaserJock> because I often use my mac to work on files and file them
<LaserJock> etc.
<LaserJock> you shouldn't really assume that somebody is filing a bug with the same machine as the bug, IMO
<LaserJock> that's also a slight issue with the lsb_release method too, but it's more clear
<mario_limonciell> well perhaps if LP looked at that string, and said, hey is this the computer you are filing this bug about
<mario_limonciell> and gave a shiny check box
<laga> ooh, shiny
<LaserJock> perhaps, but that's quite Ubuntu-specific
<mario_limonciell> isn't that the issue at hand though?
<LaserJock> in general, Malone is not just for Ubuntu
<mario_limonciell> people not knowing what ubuntu release they're on
<mario_limonciell> oh
<mario_limonciell> i'd venture to say a majority of the bugs filed on it are for Ubuntu however
<LaserJock> that's quite beside the point
<LaserJock> they are building a general bug tracker
<lukehasnoname> Just have a drop menu that asks for OS
<LaserJock> what they *have* done is given Ubuntu it's own bug filing "hints" where lsb_release is used
<lukehasnoname> if Ubuntu is chosen, ask for release time
<lukehasnoname> *type, with instruction on how to find out
<pochu> Launchpad should trigger apport!
 * pochu returns to the study mode
<LaserJock> ugg, I don't much care for apport filing bugs for me
<LaserJock> the +filebug-advanced does have instruction on how to get the source package, Ubuntu release, version of package
<LaserJock> but I would think that it'd be the regular +filebug page that'd need instructions
<norsetto> LaserJock: Hey doc, how's your Phd doing?
<LaserJock> I've been banging my head against a C++ data processing app this week
<LaserJock> maybe today I'll get it working
<LaserJock> pointers and me aren't getting along
<norsetto> LaserJock: just be nice to them, don't do things like *(&a)++
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<mathiaz> Could one of the revu admin mark me as a Reviewer in the database ? It also seems that I don't have an account on revu.
<LaserJock> my current method is: 1) try without pointers 2) stick a * in front 3) stick a & in front 4) stick a * in front of everything
 * MatthewV is Away, Reason: ( bed time for me Zzzzz.. ) | Since: ( Friday, May 30, 2008. 20:22:14 ) Xlack v2.1
<norsetto> LaserJock: thats more or less everybody's method ;-)
<norsetto> LaserJock: for me it really helped to write things down on a piece of paper, what pointers are point where and how they are changing
<LaserJock> norsetto: yeah, I mostly get tripped up when I use something that requires a pointer as an argument
<LaserJock> and I didn't want to give it a pointer
<norsetto> LaserJock: oh well, thats a granted SIGSEGV
<norsetto> LaserJock: did you see this: http://core.joejaxx.net/~joejaxx/ircstats/freenode/ubuntu-motu/ ?
<norsetto> LaserJock: I really like your random comment ... lol
<sebner> norsetto: I like my one :P  "norsetto: I want my hug! ^^"
 * norsetto hugs sebner :-)
 * sebner hugs norsetto back =)
<pochu> looooooool
<pochu> Most used words
<lukehasnoname> If I see a package that will need a newer version in Ibex than what is listed on packages.ubuntu.com, should I file a bug or tell you?
<pochu> 5"persia"14733
<LaserJock> norsetto: what the heck? how am I that high
<pochu> persia: sorry for the highlight :)
<norsetto> lukehasnoname: file a bug in debian ;-)
<norsetto> LaserJock: scott is more talkative than you, but he cheats (uses two accounts) ;-)
<lukehasnoname> Do you guys get Debian packages from testing?
<norsetto> lukehasnoname: sid
 * mok0 thinks we should get them from testing...
<lukehasnoname> is sid unstable?
<pochu> that would be boring ;)
<pochu> lukehasnoname: yes
<lukehasnoname> k
<lukehasnoname> done
<lukehasnoname> a report was already files.
<lukehasnoname> filed.
<norsetto> lukehasnoname: thats why I asked, its very often the case
<norsetto> lukehasnoname: we sync regularly until DIF (Debian Import Freeze), if Debian has a package after this date you need to ask for a sync
<norsetto> lukehasnoname: what you can do is open a bug report in LP (assuming there is nt one already) and link the debian bug to it, so that we keep trace
<lukehasnoname> So until DIF you just grab what Debian has, and after that any package updates should be filed directly with Ubuntu
<norsetto> lukehasnoname: yes, until freeze when it has to be approved by the release team too
<norsetto> lukehasnoname: but change "package updates" with syncs
<norsetto> lukehasnoname: if debian is not updating the package, and an ubuntu dev is interested, he may make the update himself
<norsetto> lukehasnoname: sometime that is necessary if the package is orphaned or abandoned in debian, and of course is necessary if it is an ubuntu specific package
<lukehasnoname> right
<lukehasnoname> So while you're on a roll, what's the diff between a sync and a package update?
<norsetto> lukehasnoname: a sync can be a bug fix, or a package change, not necessarily a new upstream version
<lukehasnoname> gotcha
<lukehasnoname> How hard is it to take a package from Debian and make it a package for Ubuntu?
<lukehasnoname> I'm a package nub
<pochu> err, Ubuntu uses Debian packages :)
<pochu> so usually it should be as easy as doing nothing
<lukehasnoname> just straight up? I knew they're both deb format, I didn't know if any extra config is done to Ubuntu ones
<lukehasnoname> I didn't know the ties were THAT close.
<pochu> lukehasnoname: they are rebuilt in Ubuntu, but most of the packages aren't changed at all
<lukehasnoname> I'll read /PackagingGuide before I ask any more questiosn
<lukehasnoname> questions
<devfil_> pochu: do you have works for me?
<speart> hi, I discovered a bug in 8.04 caused by installation of a package, someone can help me to get write a proper bug report?
<lukehasnoname> bugs.launchpad.net
<lukehasnoname> <_<
<lukehasnoname> What do you need help with?
<speart> I need to pinpoint the exact problem
<lukehasnoname> ack
<lukehasnoname> well I'm no expert, and I'm at work
<lukehasnoname> pochu, this guy needs help if you're ther
<lukehasnoname> e
<speart> I have a shutdown problem.. after installing the boinc client my computer which ran perfectly is hanging on shutdown
<speart> even after purging the packages
<lukehasnoname> speart I have a shutdown problem.. after installing the boinc client my computer which ran perfectly is hanging on shutdown
<lukehasnoname> speart even after purging the packages
<lukehasnoname> nxvl you know the answer for this guy?
<stani> ScottK, pochu: I am about to upload to debian a bug fix release for Phatch which has all the ubuntu patches and some fixes of two critical bugs related to translations.
<stani> The bugs are critical because rosetta translation bugs made Phatch unusable for a lot of languages.
<stani> I've developed together with Frank a unittest framework for rosetta translations which located many errors so I could fix them.
<stani> (This took some time.)
<stani> So my plan is to get Phatch in Debian -> Intrepid -> backport to Hardy.
<mib_r2ldbk> crap I logged in wrong
<mib_r2ldbk> anywho, funny link if you haven't seen it: http://xkcd.com/424/
<pochu> stani: rather than backport, we want it in -updates if it's a bugfix release
<ScottK> stani: I agree with pochu.  We should do an update to the existing Hardy package with the two bug fixes.
<stani> pochu, ScottK: ok, I am still learning, but it can be the new release or do you want two debdiffs (which would make no sense as it would be more work for exactly the same result)
<stani> question mark ;-)
<ScottK> Is the new release JUST the two bug fixes?
<stani> and tons of po files, they have almost all changed (except for english and dutch)
<pochu> I'm happy with bug fixes + updated translations
<stani> yes, the new release is nothing but bugfixes as it is part of the 0.1.* release
<LaserJock> stani: why were the po files updated?
<stani> new work is done in 0.2.* which is not available yet
<LaserJock> stani: were the released po's bad?
<pochu> updated translations I guess :)
<stani> LaserJock: I found out rosetta translations can invoke a lot of bugs
<stani> for example keyboard shortcuts...
<stani> sometimes "New\tCtrl+N" is translated in "New \t Ctrl+N"
<stani> which assigns the letter N and not Ctrl+N to the new command
<stani> this makes typing text in the application impossible
<LaserJock> stani: ok, so they're fixing translations and more complete translations?
<RoAkSoAx> stani, and when translated to other languages they change the key combinations
<stani> yes, but I do not want to allow that
<stani> Also they translate Ctrl+Space in Ctrl+Foo where Foo is the translation of the word Space
<stani> this breaks the shortcut as well
<RoAkSoAx> stani, so you saying, if in english is CTRL+S to save for example, and in spanish.. would be CTRL+G, that should not happen, and we should keep CTRL+S ???
<RoAkSoAx> like if it was not translated that way won't break the shortcut?
<stani> I can only allow that if there is one person in that language doing redaction
<stani> if one person does translate the shortcut and others don't, you get conflicting shortcuts
<LaserJock> stani: I meant your .po changes are fixing translations and making them more complete?
<stani> LaserJock: yes they are only fixing translations and adding some which have been added
<LaserJock> stani: I would be ok with an SRU bringing in that new release
<norsetto> LaserJock: whats the procedure when a package in -updates needs to be changed? Should it be uploaded to -proposed and tag be reversed or what?
<LaserJock> norsetto: yikes, a bad SRU?
<norsetto> LaserJock: sorry, in "-proposed"needs to be chnaged
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> that's actually a good question
<LaserJock> ideally we'd have an archive admin remove the bad package so you could upload a fixed one with the same version
<LaserJock> then yeah, you'd re do the tags
<laga> LaserJock: will people get the updated package from -proposed then?
<LaserJock> probably not
<pochu> I think so
<norsetto> LaserJock: in this case its ok, it was a rebuild (build0.1) and now its a new version (ubuntu0.1) since the rebuild alone will not work
<pochu> no?
<LaserJock> you'd have to remove them first
<LaserJock> norsetto: ah, excellent
<LaserJock> norsetto: remove the verification done and please ask for MOTU SRU to ack as we'd want to look at the changes
<norsetto> LaserJock: I mean, the rebuild alone would work but the package is crapy so neeeds to be patched to have it working ....
<norsetto> crapy, neeeds, sigh ...
<LaserJock> norsetto: what is the bug? let me check it out
<norsetto> LaserJock: and you would not be so kind to check it out :-) ?
<norsetto> bug 224847
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224847 in plucker "package update-manager 1:0.87.24 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: SystemError in cache.commit(): E:Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224847
<norsetto> LaserJock: patch attached
<LaserJock> norsetto: why do people report that the original rebuild worked?
<LaserJock> norsetto: did your tests fail?
<norsetto> LaserJock: that problem was solved, it works, its just the python scripts that do not
<LaserJock> so it's solving a separate-but-related problem
<norsetto> LaserJock: the initial problem can only be solved with a rebuild, with new pycentral, but the reuilt package fails since the script locations are hardcoded and do not follow the pycentral recent transition
<norsetto> LaserJock: actually, the rebuilt package works ok, is just the python scripts which are not linked correctly by the hardcoded links
<RoAkSoAx> xvre
<tbielawa> oh hello LaserJock!
<tbielawa> You were right, that bibus package was pretty nasty.
<RoAkSoAx> sry wrong channel
<RoAkSoAx> o/ tbielawa long time no see
<tbielawa> Almost got it done though, learned a whole buncha policy along the way
<LaserJock> tbielawa: hi, sorry I haven't had time to look at bibus more :(
<tbielawa> RoAkSoAx, hi to you too
<LaserJock> tbielawa: have you gotten more feedback on it?
<tbielawa> LaserJock, No worries, I'm pretty autonomous
<LaserJock> tbielawa: that's a good way to be in a community of volunteers :-)
<LaserJock> norsetto: ack'd, please add a new test case, etc.
<norsetto> LaserJock: sure, thx for looking into it
<tbielawa> I'm giving a packaging 101 session for some of the admins of a lab I maintain, this coming monday, I've collected a lot of good resources alng the way preparing
<LaserJock> tbielawa: awesome!
<tbielawa> LaserJock, spreading the knowledge ++.
<RoAkSoAx> LaserJock: btw, thought you were going to give a merging 101 class sometime soon
<LaserJock> me?
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm on sabbatical now :(
<pochu> Baby: hi :) is the simcity already packaged?
<RoAkSoAx> LaserJock: the other they when i was teaching no0tic how i did the merge of virt-viewer you said that you were going to give a class about merging
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> well I should
<LaserJock> but I can't presently
<RoAkSoAx> no worries, i just remembered that xD
<LaserJock> it did seem like our merging documentation was pretty outdated
<RoAkSoAx> i think you said that you were thinking about having a UD Reference Guide?
<effie_jayx> I have a question regarding a merge... the changelog, what do I write if I find that all changes have blended in fine... do I list the changes that require the merge again... debian has not taken up any of these changes yet since they do not use pulse audio
<effie_jayx> In my first merge I remember that I had to report again why I was doing the merge
 * effie_jayx thinks he may have answered to himself but just wants to be sure
<pochu> effie_jayx: you have to report all the changes, yes
<effie_jayx> thanks pochu
<effie_jayx> pochu,  do I report changes that come from the debian version as well or not since they are already in the debian changelog
<effie_jayx> ?
<pochu> effie_jayx: no, no need to report them
<effie_jayx> cool
<pochu> effie_jayx: just the Ubuntu delta
<RoAkSoAx> effie_jayx: actually,only the ubuntu changes ;)
<effie_jayx> thanks RoAkSoAx
 * RoAkSoAx just getting used to irssi :S
<mok0> effie_jayx: the previous changelog entries from updates in debian are included when you use the -v switch to dpkg-buildpackage
<sistpoty> hi folks
<sistpoty> hm... how do we proceed now with motu-sru? (thanks a lot to RainCT and ScottK for volunteering as well!)
<ScottK> I don't think RainCT volunteered.
<sistpoty> well, he kinda volunteered :P
<sistpoty> still, how should we proceed? wait until monday if more people volunteer?
<LaserJock> sistpoty: well , what do you mean by "proceed"?
<LaserJock> we have had 1 week for nominations?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yes, but after that period ScottK also volunteered and rainct kind of volunteered (at least I guess I could talk him into it)
<LaserJock> so we only need to vote?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: so my plan as posted to the ubuntu-motu, to skip a vote might not be the best thing
<sistpoty> LaserJock: I mean, do want to vote, should we wait before we vote... *shrug*
<LaserJock> so how many people do we have as candidates?
<sistpoty> currently 2 1/2 (\sh, ScottK and eventually rainct (no too clear from his mail for me))
<LaserJock> well, if there are only 2 I don't see much point in a vote
<LaserJock> if there are 3 we should probably have one, unless we want 1 more person in MOTU SRU
<sistpoty> hm...
 * sistpoty is out for a smoke to think *g*
<norsetto> who are the people actually leaving, laser and imbrandon?
<sistpoty> norsetto: that's what's my impression is from the thread
<norsetto> sistpoty: right, so its an impression or we actually asked and people told us ;-)
<sistpoty> norsetto: that impression is actually based on the mail from LaserJock, so maybe you'd like to skip me as proxy ;)
<norsetto> sistpoty: I know about LaserJock, but I've never seen anywhere what the other 4 wants to do (probably my fault as my ISP spam filter about everything)
<sistpoty> heh
<sistpoty> hm... how about we extent the deadline for volunteers until Monday, and if we've got > 2 volunteers, we'll call for a vote?
<LaserJock> norsetto: I've talked to all members of MOTU SRU
<LaserJock> brandon and I are stepping down
<LaserJock> everybody else is staying on
<norsetto> LaserJock: ok .. staying for the sake of it or to actually do something?
<LaserJock> actually do something
<norsetto> LaserJock: ok then, we need 2 candidates, we have 2, what is the problem? Should we waste another 2 days trying to force somebody to step in?
<LaserJock> norsetto: well, from what sistpoty said we may have 3
<LaserJock> if we do indeed only have  2 then we should just go with that an move on
<norsetto> LaserJock: for what I could see, we have stefan and scott, lets bless them and move on ...
<sistpoty> s/f/ph/ ;)
<mok0> norsetto: I agree
<sistpoty> ok, /me tries to formulate a follow-up mail
<LaserJock> norsetto: well, I just don't want to snub RainCT if he does want to run
<norsetto> LaserJock: if RainCT wants to run we make it a team of 6 ...
<mok0> Is there a limit to the number of members of SRU team?
<mok0> norsetto: exactly
<LaserJock> well, I don't have a particular problem with having another person
<mok0> There's plenty of work
<LaserJock> but I'm slightly concerned with just taking everybody who wants
<LaserJock> as a general case
<norsetto> LaserJock: can't we actually have some kind of backup in case somebody wants to leave in a hurry?
<mok0> LaserJock: that's not the case here
<LaserJock> so we don't want elections?
<mok0> LaserJock: If the question is whether to accept another experienced motu, it's a no-brainer
<norsetto> LaserJock: heck, I know I don't want scott, I know he is just going to refuse all my sru's! But seriously, do we have a problem with the candidates????
<LaserJock> norsetto: that's not the point
<LaserJock> mok0: well, actually I don't think it is
<mok0> hm, well whatever
<ajmitch> hi
<LaserJock> mok0: it's easy to lower total productivity by adding people
<LaserJock> sometimes it's better to have a smaller, tighter team
<mok0> I don't think there's a point in looking for problems where none are to be found
<norsetto> LaserJock: the point is, we need to have a working sru team. Do we have a working sru team right now?
<LaserJock> I believe so, for the most part
<tekteen> Hi. I am going to create my first package. Is there a specific way to make init scripts? I an not knew to bash scripting but want to know if there is a way most people format it (besides making it use start/stop/reload)?
<mok0> There's a l.o.n.g backlog to process
<LaserJock> mok0: I don't think there is, is there?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: OOI have you given ACKs on irc as well, as I've looked at 2-3 SRU bugs so far, which were uploaded, but didn't show a trace of motu-sru acknowledging it?
<sharms> What exactly is the motivation to pull a 'shotgun team forming' rather than giving the decided process it's time to complete?
<mok0> LaserJock: 89
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch btw
<LaserJock> mok0: those aren't all ones needing MOTU SRU though
<norsetto> LaserJock: well, from my personal experience from the other side of the barrier, the sru team was a 1.1 persons team
<LaserJock> most should be already ack'd
<mok0> LaserJock: no? They're in the teams bug-list
<LaserJock> mok0: sure
<LaserJock> mok0: we don't remove them
<LaserJock> norsetto: well, if you feel things aren't going fast enough please email -motu
<LaserJock> I've been working, though slowly, on some scripts to help MOTU SRU to work more effectively
<LaserJock> it's not terribly clear right now what needs work so I'm working on that kinds of stuff
<norsetto> LaserJock: no, I ask that if there are 2 people willing to do the job, let them do it and stop crapping around
<LaserJock> norsetto: well, hang on a sec
<sharms> this sounds like totally the right forum for that discussion
<LaserJock> we do have procedures for elections
<LaserJock> as I *said*, if there are 2 positions open and 2 nominees it's clear
<LaserJock> but if there are 2 positions open and 3 nominees we should have a bote
<mok0> tekteen: search wiki.ubuntu.dk, the info you're looking for is there
<LaserJock> *vote
<norsetto> LaserJock: we had a week, we have 2 candidates, where did we oversee the "procedure"?
<tekteen> mok0: ok, thanks
<mok0> LaserJock: nah, not worth it, just accept all 3
<LaserJock> norsetto: I was told we have 3
<LaserJock> mok0: ok, but that's just making stuff up
<mok0> LaserJock: perhaps
<LaserJock> if we have processes we probably should follow them, no?
<norsetto> LaserJock: ok, so assuming we have 3, either we take all 3, we keep one as a backup, or lets get going with whatever election needs to be done
<LaserJock> I don't have an a priori problem with having 3 new people, but that hasn't been approved by anybody
<mok0> LaserJock: If no one is making a fuzz
<LaserJock> that's no reason to not use processes
<sistpoty> hm... I'd post the following as follow up: http://pastebin.com/m4241a17a
<LaserJock> *or* we can get rid of those processes
<sistpoty> anyone disagrees?
<tekteen> mok0: I can not find it
<mok0> LaserJock: but "I'm not against it, but what about the principles" is a not a good argument imho
<LaserJock> mok0: why not?
<LaserJock> it's about more than just me
<mok0> tekteen, search for lsb init scripts
<norsetto> sistpoty: I'm against extending the deadline, having a week was already long enough
<LaserJock> just because I'm not against it doesn't mean that it should be done
<mok0> tekteen: or google
<tekteen> mok0: ok
<sistpoty> norsetto: then we have only once candidate :(
<sharms> mok0: exactly where in the code of conduct does it say "if nobody is making a fuss, disregard the process"
<mok0> sharms: it doesn't :-)
<sistpoty> s/once/one/
<norsetto> sistpoty: oh man, we have two: \sh and scottk, both well within the time allotted
<mok0> My p.o.v is, that there is plenty of work, so if there are more people than required, why not just say: yay!
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> having been in around for a while and in the MOTU SRU team I really do feel it unwise to just pile on as many people as possible
<LaserJock> communication becomes more difficult
<sistpoty> norsetto: actually not. the time was until today. I guess some people just got aware of it when I sent the mail (and that mail was the deadline, so other possibly interested people would be left out if not awake right now)
<mok0> LaserJock: yeah, that's true
<norsetto> sistpoty: yes, and wasn't it today that scottk volunteered?
<mok0> I am satisfied as long as it is experience MOTUs in the SRU team
<sistpoty> norsetto: yes, but after my mail. I mean we should be fair, maybe extent the deadline until tomorrow evening or so, so that ppl. from other timezones can also apply
<LaserJock> mok0: I'd rather have a good working, smaller team who know what it's doing
<mok0> LaserJock: OK, I understand
<norsetto> I give up, trying to talk common sense here seem to be wasted, take all the time you want, ask all the people you want, I'm sick and tired having to wait weeks to have a bloody ack
<mok0> norsetto: don't loose your spirit
<LaserJock> norsetto: that has basically nothing to do with that
<LaserJock> 1 person could handle MOTU SRU honestly
<LaserJock> adding more people isn't the solution to waiting acks
<norsetto> LaserJock: it has all to do with that, we loose weeks discussing about nothing when we need people to actuallky do something
<LaserJock> norsetto: give me a list and I'll do them
 * mok0 agrees with norsetto 
<mok0> LaserJock: you retired, remember :-)
<norsetto> LaserJock: I know you do, who do you believe the 1 in 1.1 was ?
<LaserJock> not until I'm replaced
<LaserJock> the problem is that MOTU SRU is not very able to track what needs doing
 * sistpoty is sad to have started a heated discussion
<LaserJock> sistpoty: no, this is good
<LaserJock> I didn't realize people were feeling like MOTU SRU wasn't going fast enough
<norsetto> sistpoty: don't be sad, discussions is all we are good at ;-)
<mok0> sistpoty: it's not heated, we're just turning the arguments inside-out
<LaserJock> norsetto: if you're feeling like things aren't going fast enough please let us know
<LaserJock> the thing I'm really trying to work on is keeping things from falling through the cracks
<LaserJock> that happens waaay to easily currently
<RoAkSoAx> sistpoty, don't worry.. they like to discuss ;)
<norsetto> LaserJock: well, I'm loosing you here
<LaserJock> norsetto: part of leaving gracefully, IMO, is making sure things work properly when you leave
<mok0> It is my feeling that waaayyy to many bugs were left in hardy when it was released. We _really_ need to get many many of those SRU'ed
<LaserJock> mok0: it actually hasn't been all the horrible of a release
<sharms> can we just market them as features and move on
 * sistpoty just sent the follow up mail. so please object on the mailing list if it's not good *g*
<tekteen> mok0: I still can not find it :-(
<mok0> LaserJock: hmm, it got a pretty lousy press
<LaserJock> although it sure is nice for a an LTS release to have more fixed  up
<norsetto> LaserJock: we all appreciate that, believe me
<LaserJock> mok0: oh man, you should have seen dapper
<mok0> tekteen: sorry, it was in the debian wiki: http://wiki.debian.org/LSBInitScripts
<tekteen> thanks
<LaserJock> mok0: every release gets bad press. People like to poke apart the "big guys"
<mok0> LaserJock: heh, but we've moved forward, and Ubuntu is in very high regard now
<norsetto> btw, I do really believe that it would make sense to have an extra member on stand-by
<LaserJock> so we work harder, fix what we can and try to make sure the next one is better :-)
<mok0> LaserJock: hardy is seen as Canonical
<mok0> s defining moment
<directhex> i'd file a bug report about nspluginwrapper being completely broken, but there are so many bug reports up there i don't really see the point, it's not like nobody knows it's busted
<LaserJock> norsetto: hmm, I don't really see a need for "stand-by" if we want another person just add them
<sistpoty> mok0: it's sad to say, but there is some truth in Ubuntu==canonical from what I've experienced (or mayber canonical->ubuntu rather)
<LaserJock> mok0: and from what I've seen Hardy has been a very good release
<norsetto> LaserJock: well, thats my point but if you like a smaller team then should we just kick a good volunteer out?
<LaserJock> norsetto: not necessarily, no
<LaserJock> but we can always make the case that more people would make it better
<mok0> sistpoty: yeah but that's because the press is focussed on sabdfl's involvement in Canonical and when he will break even
<LaserJock> heck, why not have all of MOTU be MOTU SRU?
<norsetto> LaserJock: I think we did that already
<sistpoty> mok0: oh, yes. also the press != what's going really on (and my comment was rather focussed on the latter)
<LaserJock> norsetto: exactly
<mok0> LaserJock: because it is good to divide work between us
<LaserJock> mok0: only at some point
<sistpoty> damn, I've written to much c this week, can only make statements with boolean equations in them *g*
<mok0> sistpoty: black'n'white, huh?
<LaserJock> if you can cultivate a few people who do their job well, I'd say it's better than dividing work between lots of people who just do a bit here and there
<sistpoty> mok0: heh
<mok0> LaserJock: right
<norsetto> LaserJock: look, motu-sru is like motu-release, we need a filter to filter the crap out (or at least discourage the peole if they are not very serious). But a filter needs to actually be a good filter, not just choke ....
<mok0> but we're talking 5 vs. 6 here, it not that big a deal
<LaserJock> norsetto: exactly
<mok0> If we had 7, 8, 9 candidates, I think it would be good with a vote
<LaserJock> well, the problem is, IMO, that that is not up for discussion
<LaserJock> MOTU SRU is determined by a MOTU vote, as far as I can remember
<mok0> LaserJock: norsetto's suggestion is not bad, that person number +1 is a suppleant
<LaserJock> I'd rather just add the person
<mok0> LaserJock: well, then we agree :-)
<LaserJock> sure, but that's just my opinion
<norsetto> LaserJock: then why are we discussing if we all agree on the same thing !?
<LaserJock> because I'm saying we should follow process
<mok0> norsetto: because we love the sound of fingers tapping across the keyboard...
<LaserJock> either follow the process or change it, but just ignoring it when we're in a rush or it's inconvenient seems like a bad idea, IMO
<mok0> LaserJock: You are right of course.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-31
<norsetto> LaserJock: who is ignoring what? We had a week, we have 2 candidates, where was the process disregarded!?
<mok0> LaserJock: I think norsetto and I just prefer to get things done, regardless
<LaserJock> norsetto: I was told we had 3 candidates, that's all
<norsetto> LaserJock: looks to me we like to create problems just for the sake of it
<LaserJock> mok0: for sure, and I'd actually be up for changing the process
<LaserJock> but again, it's not about my personal opinion here
<norsetto> LaserJock: ok, assume we have 3, lets stop procastinating, lets call for a vote like it was in the process
<LaserJock> it's about following processes that MOTU have agreed on
<sistpoty> LaserJock: no, I wrote 2 1/2 (because its still unclear to me whether rainct actually volunteered or not. that's why I've asked him in the mail)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: right, but 2 1/2 > 2
<mok0> heh
<ScottK> cody-somerville volunteered to.  He just accidentally sent it to me instead of the list.
<ScottK> I suggested he resend it.
<ScottK> So we're at 3.
<mok0> Ah, so now we have 4 candidates for 2 places
<ScottK> 3 1/2
<sistpoty> ScottK: ah. thanks
<LaserJock> we could also leave the 2 vacancies unfilled, btw
<mok0> LaserJock: what would be the point of that?
<norsetto> LaserJock: somehow, I have the impression you enjoy all this
<sistpoty> unrelated: could anyone unsubscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors from bug #12715 (package in main nowadays)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 12715 in tsclient "tsclient could install xnest" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12715
<pochu> sistpoty: sure
<LaserJock> mok0:  well, to have a smaller, more efficient team team
<sistpoty> thanks pochu
<mok0> LaserJock: somehow, I don't see how smaller correlates with more efficient...
<LaserJock> norsetto: actually, I don't much, but there are a couple bigger issues here
<LaserJock> mok0: right now a lot of the time I think it's a problem of "oh, somebody else will get it"
<pochu> Oh, you were talking about the SRU processes? please reply to the process thread! :)
<mok0> LaserJock: only if it's a matter of decision-making, like right now, we are 4-6 people discussing the same arguments for an hour
<norsetto> mok0: actually, its just the 3 of us, all the others are wisely doing something else
<mok0> heh
<LaserJock> I think we need to make sure we have people who can do code reviews
<norsetto> oh well, as much as I enjoy the discussion and the company, I think its time I rejoin my better half
<mok0> Ah, LaserJock, why did you have to quit? Look all the trouble you are causing...
<LaserJock> norsetto: seriously though, send me a list and I'll look at them
<LaserJock> I don't want things falling on the floor
<LaserJock> SRU are very important to me
<norsetto> LaserJock: don't worry, the last one you killed just 2 hours ago
<LaserJock> and MOTU SRU are also policy makers
<LaserJock> and have to deal with upstreams quite often
<mok0> LaserJock: just to be curious, what are the premises that you judge a SRU request on?
<LaserJock> It's basically a cost vs. benefit analysis
<LaserJock> cost = possible regressions
<LaserJock> benefit = what we get out of it
<LaserJock> so low risk SRUs are good
<LaserJock> or high risk but very important are also likely candidates
<LaserJock> but to be honest, MOTU and contributors are doing a great job
<mok0> so basically, it's a cost * benefit optimization problem
<LaserJock> mok0: very roughly
<norsetto> really gotta go, g'night all, have fun
<mok0> norsetto: g'night
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> too late
<mok0> he was fast
<mok0> LaserJock: well, my philosophy is not to worry about problems that have not yet arisen
<LaserJock> mok0: well, but I have seen problems :-)
<mok0> LaserJock: what kind of problems?
<LaserJock> MOTU SRU is not terribly energetic presently, things easily fall through the cracks
<LaserJock> I've also seen MOTU and SRU preparers not understanding the SRU policy
<LaserJock> the policy itself also has some minor issues that still need to be taken care of
<mok0> LaserJock: you mean, too much lax-ness in evaluating SRU's?
<sistpoty> well, same for FFe's... motu-release also acts as some kind of filter there
<LaserJock> mok0: as in, not evaluating
<LaserJock> although I do think we could be a bit more in-depth in evaluation
<LaserJock> we tend to reject when we're uncertain, which is better than letting them through
<LaserJock> but if we were able to do thorough code-reviews and get good testing we'd be able to allow more
<mok0> LaserJock: hmm..
<LaserJock> we also need to look at bug-fix only microreleases
<mok0> LaserJock: right'
<LaserJock> MOTU SRU is likely to be given the ability to select packages who are allowed to have microrelease exceptions to the "minimal diff" rule
<LaserJock> so you want people who can make good judgments doing that
<LaserJock> I'm not saying anything against the current candidates
<mok0> LaserJock: well, the distro somehow reflects the people doing the work
<LaserJock> but I'm hesitant about "anybody who wants it is welcome"
<pochu> there's a vote
<pochu> so it's not exactly that
<mok0> LaserJock: But otoh, you can't say "I only accept people who are exactly like me, but I don't have time to do it"
<LaserJock> well, but we have nothing to "discriminate" against
<LaserJock> mok0: no, that is for sure
<pochu> It is those who volunteer AND the MOTU team approves
<LaserJock> mok0: I'm just trying to tell you issues I see
<mok0> LaserJock: what we want from you is that you pass on your experience. Perhaps you should write an SRU guide
<LaserJock> mok0: yep, I've been thinking about that
<LaserJock> as a way to make sure MOTU SRU members are on the same page
<mok0> LaserJock: that would be awesome
<LaserJock> we want to make sure that all members are applying policy consistently
<mok0> LaserJock: exactly
<LaserJock> however, I do feel that a vote for votings sake is not always a good thing
<mok0> LaserJock: within the personal judgement
<wgrant> mok0: Hi.
<mok0> wgrant: hi! morning for you now?
<LaserJock> mok0: exactly. For sure we want to trust MOTU SRU to make judgment calls. We just want to make sure people are on the same page
<wgrant> mok0: Yep.
<mok0> LaserJock: I agree with that
<wgrant> .win 8
<wgrant> Damn.
<LaserJock> I think if we were able to hear candidates' views on SRU and what they'd like to do, etc.
<LaserJock> it would give us a better basis to vote for people
<LaserJock> I dislike voting based on just "oh I know that person, I'll vote for them" :-)
<mok0> LaserJock: otoh, the motu system is trust based to a wide extent
<LaserJock> yes, so we want to encourage people to have a *basis* for that trust
<mok0> LaserJock: In an associative manner
<mok0> LaserJock: I prefer to think  that MOTUs are all well-qualified
<LaserJock> I'd rather know it
<mok0> LaserJock: but that's not possible, unless you hire them all
<LaserJock> and qualified for MOTU does not necessarily mean the best person for the job when it comes to leadership positions
<mok0> LaserJock:  no
<LaserJock> no, but I don't see anything wrong with giving people and opportunity to show us what they've got
<mok0> LaserJock: I agree
<LaserJock> personally I love it when people give their ideas for how to improve the team
<mok0> LaserJock: the interesting thing is that it is an organism under constant evolution and development
<RoAkSoAx> it is always good to have people giving ideas on how to improve things, rather than just criticize
<mok0> RoAkSoAx: right
<LaserJock> I think getting a "grilling" on what I have to offer a team is a great chance to really get a cohesive idea and make some plans
<LaserJock> when it's just "hmm, I got voted it, now what do I do?" I think we miss a chance to help new members of the team
<mok0> LaserJock: we could set that up... an IRC grilling of the various candidates...
<wgrant> mok0: What did you want me about?
<mok0> wgrant: ah, many hours ago...
<mok0> wgrant: It was about python-numpy vs. numeric
<wgrant> Aha.
<mok0> wgrant: but I convinced myself that only numpy is relevant now
<wgrant> Good - that's what I thought.
<mok0> wgrant: both numeric and numarray are deprecated in Debian now
<LaserJock> upstream anyway, only numpy is relevant
<LaserJock> they swallowed up numeric and numarray into scipy-core which got renamed to numpy
<wgrant> Good, good.
<wgrant> We can finally kill the others off, then?
<mok0> I would guess so
<wgrant> That trio has been making numpy messy.
<mok0> Perhaps we should check out all packages that depend on the messy bits
<mok0> heh, my last merge closed 6 bugs
<sistpoty> !merge
<ubottu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<LaserJock> mok0: awesome
<mok0> Well it's take me all day to finish it :-)
<mok0> taken
<LaserJock> that's ok, quality over quantity :-)
<Neurostu> is this the place to come to get support for building .debs?
<Neurostu> I just don't want to bother anybody here if it isn't
<LaserJock> Neurostu: no, go ahead and ask your question
<LaserJock> gosh, I really gotta get out of this place, I'm going to be running a MOTU School session if I'm not careful ;-)
<mok0> he
<mok0> Neurostu: you can usually get an answer in this channel
<Neurostu> \http://mwl.pastebin.com/m33b46f73
<Neurostu> these are the last few lines of an error I got when I tried to run $dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
 * sistpoty is spamming ubuntu-motu@l.u.c todasy
<sistpoty> -s
<mok0> Neurostu: what's the /usr/local thing?
<Neurostu> I'm not sure what to do, I'm building two packages and the first package compiled just fine.  The second package needs gtkglext-1.2 and gtkglextmm-1.2 and the first package, all three of which I installed
<mok0> Neurostu: you _never_ should link against anything in /usr/local
<Neurostu> Is that link defined in the source code or in the configure script?
<Neurostu> sorry, I'm not the primary developer of the software, i'm working with him and he delegated the making of the debs to me
<mok0> Neurostu: this is the culprit: /usr/local/lib/libgtkglextmm-x11-1.2.so.0
<mok0> Neurostu: you need to Build-Depends on libgtkglextmm-x11-dev
<Neurostu> ok, so I need to add that to the control file...
<Neurostu> ok I'll try that
<Neurostu> so If I install gtkglextmm from source will it still work? I tried adding that to the control and it says gives me a dependencies not met error, do I have to install gtkglextmm as a deb?
<mok0> Neurostu: If you are building on your own system you need to install that package
<mok0> Neurostu: if you use a pbuilder, it will pull in the build-depends automatically
<Neurostu> so can do I install it with : make, sudo make install? or do I need to precompile it into a deb
<mok0> Neurostu: you should use dpkg-buildpackage
<Neurostu> ok I'll try to rebuild and install the lib that way
<Neurostu> thanks
<LaserJock> interesting, I don't seem to be getting mail today
<wgrant> LaserJock: It's a conspiracy to get you to leave like you said you would.
<mok0> Neurostu: with libgtkglextmm, just apt-get install it
<Neurostu> right so last time I checked the hardy repositories don't contain the version i need
<mok0> ah
<LaserJock> wgrant: perhaps
<Neurostu> yes... this is something we fought with on gutsy, we tried to plug version 1.2 for the hardy distro but we didn't speak loud enough i guess
<mok0> Neurostu: hardy has      1.2.0-0ubuntu1 0
<Neurostu> ahh.. your right ok I don't know how I missed that
<mok0> Neurostu: apt-get install libgtkglextmm-x11-dev
<Neurostu> done
<just_a_nick> hello everyone. Im having trouble activating my openPGP key. Can someone help me?
<santiago-ve> just_a_nick, which kind of problem?
<mok0> just_a_nick: what do you mean "activating"?
<LaserJock> well nifty, I think my @ubuntu.com has turned into a black hole
<just_a_nick> I have followed the instructions in launch pad
<just_a_nick> created one key in my machine
<just_a_nick> and the uploaded it with: gpg --send-key key-id
<just_a_nick> and gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys
<mok0> just_a_nick:  you have to copy-paste it into your LP page
<mok0> also
<just_a_nick> i have copied my key, but it tells me it doesn't find it
<mok0> just_a_nick: the _public_ key
<just_a_nick> i see the text field were i copy my key in this format:  27E0 7815 B47C 0397 90D5  8589 27D9 A27B F3F9 6058
<mok0> just_a_nick: what's your lp id
<just_a_nick> AdrianAncona
<Neurostu> if I run $sudo rm -rf /usr/local/lib  that will only remove the libraries that I have installed by hand right?
<just_a_nick> is there a problem if the mail i gave to get my key is hotmail?
<mok0> just_a_nick: I don't see you
<just_a_nick> try soonick5
<mok0> yes got you
<just_a_nick> good ;)
<just_a_nick> what do you think is the problem then?
<mok0> just_a_nick: hmm
<mok0> just_a_nick: when you copy your key, you need to copy-paste all of the content of it, not just the fingerprint
<mok0> Neurostu: right
<just_a_nick> but below the textfield i see: Example:  	 27E0 7815 B47C 0397 90D5  8589 27D9 A27B F3F9 6058
<just_a_nick> what else should i copy?
<Neurostu> ty
<just_a_nick> it is only a text field, not a text area
<mok0> just_a_nick: you need to export your public key in "armor" format
<just_a_nick> can i ask how to do that?
<just_a_nick> is it just using --armor with --send-keys?
<mok0> just_a_nick:  gpg --export --armor <your keyid>
<just_a_nick> thank you, let me try that
<mok0> just_a_nick: to find your id, use  gpg --list-keys
<mok0> just_a_nick: it's an 8-digit hex number
<wgrant> mok0: It needs the whole fingerprint.
<wgrant> Use gpg --fingerprint <your key ID>
<mok0> wgrant: don't you need to copy paste your public key?
<wgrant> mok0: No, it gets it from a keyserver.
<wgrant> It only wants the fingerprint.
<mok0> wgrant: ok
<mok0> just_a_nick: listen to wgrant, he knows better :-)
<just_a_nick> ok, thank you. But i have already done what you told me :P
<wgrant> just_a_nick: What was the error?
<mok0> uhuh
<just_a_nick> was it wrong?
<just_a_nick> i have already copied my fingerprint in the text field but i get an errror
<just_a_nick> Launchpad could not import your OpenPGP key.
<Neurostu> so when I get: dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for /usr/lib/libsomanetwork-1.0-0.3.so.1 (used by debian/tspikes/usr/bin/ratetimelinevis).
<Neurostu> Does this mean that /usr/lib/libsomanetwork isn't found/
<mok0> just_a_nick: ... and you sent your key to the keyserver?
<just_a_nick> i used this line:  gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys
<sistpoty> ScottK: regarding your reply... you might also want to read the irclogs (I just tried to pass on the info, not necessarily my opinion for all cases)
 * sistpoty needs to go to bed now
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<wgrant> JanC: Please subscribe motu-swat and add CVE references to any future universe/multiverse security bugs that you file.
<just_a_nick> Hello everyone. I have just uploaded my pgp key but i cant decrypt the mail launchpad sent me. Can someone help me?
<persia> just_a_nick: How are you trying to decrypt it?
<just_a_nick> my mail is a hotmail adress so i intalled firegpg
<just_a_nick> i choose decrypt and write my 8 hex digits key. But it tells me it is incorrect
<persia> just_a_nick: Try entering your passphrase, rather than your keyid.
<just_a_nick> i also copied the message to evolution and tried to decrypt it from there, but the same
<just_a_nick> i dont remember giving a passphrase
<just_a_nick> is there a way i could have gotten a pgp key without one passphrase
<just_a_nick> ?
<persia> just_a_nick: Ah.  You really, really, really want a passphrase.  If you don't have one, it's not very secure.  You may want a new key.
<just_a_nick> how do i get a passphrase? i used gpg --gen-key to get the key
<persia> just_a_nick: It ought to have asked you for one during the key generation process.
<just_a_nick> can i have more than one key for one mail adress?
<persia> just_a_nick: You can, but most of the tools aren't designed for that case, and it will make your life more confusing.
<just_a_nick> so i would have to register one new mail adress in launchpad?
<persia> just_a_nick: Just to simplify troubleshooting, try encrypting something to yourself locally, and decrypting it.
<just_a_nick> ok, ill try that
<persia> If that really doesn't require a passphrase, you ought to be able to add one with `pgp --edit-key -k $(keyid) passwd`
<persia> If it does require a passphrase, you at least can try things locally.
<persia> In the worst case, assuming that you're not already using the key for various things, you could delete it, and create a new key.
<just_a_nick> i have just created it
<just_a_nick> how can i delete it?
<just_a_nick> it worked with the passphrase of the new key i created. Thank you very much persia
<just_a_nick> just one more thing. How can i delete the old key
<persia> just_a_nick: Thinking about it, you probably don't want to just delete it.  You'll want to first revoke it, as you've posted to a keyserver.
<just_a_nick> if you know the commands to do that i would appreciate if you told them to me. But if you dont know them by memory i can find them in google. Thank you very much for your help
<persia> just_a_nick: I don't remember the details.  I think you start with --gen-revoke, but I don't remember how to publish the revocation (I've never done that)
<just_a_nick> thank you for your help. Ill search the datails in the net ;)
<Flannel> Anyone know why this channel has stopped being logged?
<Flannel> or, hmm, looks like it was just for a few days
<persia> Flannel: The goal is to keep logging up all the time.  Sometimes that doesn't work for various reasons.
<persia> In general, look for the ubuntulog bot.  If missing, and there's no netsplit, ask for a bot wrangler to help in #ubuntu-ops
<Flannel> persia: It looks like it was just missing for a few days.  but it's back now.  No big deal
<persia> Flannel: I think it doesn't autojoin, and needs a prod whenever it drops off.  Typically just needs someone to notice it's gone.
<Flannel> persia: makes sense
<Amaranth> persia: We don't run ubuntulog
<persia> Amaranth: No?  Who does?
<Amaranth> not sure
<Amaranth> --- [ubuntulog] (n=logbot@ubuntu/bot/ubuntulog) : log bot:: contact rt@ubuntu.com
<persia> Amaranth: Hmmm..  Where ought someone ask then?  #canonical-sysadmin?
<RoAkSoAx> maybe you should try to find out in #ubuntu-irc xD
<Amaranth> persia: maybe
<Amaranth> persia: it is run by someone in there, I guess
<RoAkSoAx> persia, try in #u-irc
<Amaranth> the logs used to be on someone's people url but i can't remember who
<persia> Amaranth: fabbione
<Amaranth> RoAkSoAx: #ubuntu-irc is useless for such a thing
<Amaranth> persia: I would imagine he still runs it
<persia> Amaranth: Maybe.  Hmm.
<RoAkSoAx> here says that's run by canonical: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/Cloaks?highlight=(irc)
<RoAkSoAx> ubuntulog (Canonical)
<Hobbsee> it's not run by fabbione again
<Hobbsee> if you want changes to it, you need to contact rt
<lukehasnoname> hm
<RoAkSoAx> anyone having problems configuring planet?
<effie_jayx> how different is to merge if you use dad or mom
<effie_jayx> ?
<Lutin> not sure what you mean
<effie_jayx> a friend of mine and I were working together
<effie_jayx> he was using MoM (merges.ubuntu.com) I was using dad (http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php).  we used the corresponding grab_merge.sh  and we got that the folders extracted are different. while MoM reported  a whole new makefile that could not be merged, dad didn't cmplain about it.
<Lutin> yeah, they don't strictly use the same method to determine what needs to be merged. what package is it ?
<effie_jayx> kguitar
<effie_jayx> Lutin,  another thing would be the folder, the name on the folder you can work on has the name of the packages in ubuntu. the onde in dad reflects the name of the package in debian. I got confused for a bit there.
<Lutin> the name of the package ? uh
<Lutin> ought to be the same
<math_b> Hi, I'm trying to package something which provide a python library, should I use pycentral or pysupport ?
<Lutin> effie_jayx: on the Makefile thing, it's MoM behaving weird
<Lutin> the same applies for the folder name, actually
<effie_jayx> Lutin,  weird acting from mom... I had usde the grab_merge from mom and did the merge for audacious-plugins and it was fine
<Lutin> never said it was /wrong/
<effie_jayx> Lutin,  sorry, didn't intend to say it was wrong... it was not familiar then
<effie_jayx> Lutin,  thanks for the clarification
<Lutin> effie_jayx: well, it's mostly that they do behave differently under certain circumstances, such as this one
<Lutin> (and btw I think MoM is better than DaD in this particular case)
<stani> ï»¿math_b: What are you trying to package?
<persia> effie_jayx: Just to add to your confusion, neither MoM nor DaD is complete: both have a separate set of implemented exceptions for oddities, depending on to whom any given broken behaviour was reported.  Regardless of which you choose (or if you choose neither), it is always good to look at the nature of the Ubuntu changes, rather than just merging according to the script.
<persia> Sometimes things which do not show as conflicts end up causing issues, depending on the nature of the changes.
<math_b> stani: git version of xcb-proto
<effie_jayx> persia,  right. like in audacious, I am aware of the pulse audio changes so that helps a bit.
<Lutin> persia: in this case it's a makefile that seems to be generated during the build
<persia> Lutin: I wonder how that came to be considered as an exception to code around :)
<effie_jayx> persia,  there is a whole new makefile from debian, and MoM just separates them into makefile.debian and makefile.ubuntu and dad doesn't make reference to a change in makefile (maybe he just took the whole file and repleaced the old)
<Lutin> persia: well no version in the orig tarball, so we juste assume that it's a diff
<JanC> wgrant: okay, I'll try to remember (and I didn't have the time to search for the CVE at that moment, but could have done afterwards)
<JanC> wgrant: and why isn't motu-swat subscribed automaticly?
<persia> Lutin: That makes sense.  I was more thinking about the merge problem that prompted the workaround in MoM.
<persia> effie_jayx: Sure.  There are lots of reasons things like that could happen.  I'm just advocating being careful, and not trusting either of MoM or DaD to do the right thing completely (even when there are no reported conflicts).
<Lutin> persia: what is weird is that it prints a warning - otherwise, it's rather clever, as the file is not included at all
<hefe_bia> evand: Could you have another look at the debdiff for bug #223812? I know it has become more complicated - any hints on how to make it simpler are appreciated ;)
<Lutin> for a reason I can't recall, it seems that I made the debian version override the ubuntu one in DaD
<Lutin> which in fact doesn't change anything - you'll end up with it in the diff.gz
<stani> ï»¿math_b: I guess that is not really an ubuntu specific library. So it might be better to join Debian PAPT and do the packaging there. You will get probably more help on #debian-python for these specific questions.
<math_b> stani: thanks
<effie_jayx> persia,  thanks :D
<persia> Lutin: Odd indeed.
<Lutin> persia: acutally I think I made it behave this way just because of such cases - as splitting it in makefile.{debian,ubuntu} is irrelevant
<effie_jayx> persia,  mind if I write about his in an email to mentors? I think I and others could benefit from this oportunity
<effie_jayx> ?
<persia> Lutin: That makes sense, although I'm of mixed minds.  I almost think it's worth highlighting, just in case it could cause an issue with the merge.
<Lutin> persia: true, i didn't even bother writing a note
<persia> effie_jayx: If you like, although I think the larger plan is to merge MoM and DaD (in-progress now that MoM is open source).  The taking care with merges is a good message, though.
<wgrant> JanC: Why would we be? Launchpad has a single distro security contact - it doesn't look like per-component contacts are coming any time soon.
<wgrant> JanC: Thanks.
<JanC> I was just wondering why not, doesn't seem to be that difficult to implement if the distro component is known ã
<wgrant> JanC: But that would make sense.. maybe after LP 2.0.
<Lutin> persia: hmm actually DaD is a lot less clever than that, I should work on it
<persia> Lutin: Is it worth it?  I thought the two were merging?  Is that stalled?
 * persia cheers LP 2.0: the release after which sensible fixes are considered
<Lutin> persia: I don't know, as I only wrote the backend. better ask Adri2000 , as it's mostly UI-related
<persia> Lutin: Oh, the UI is merging and not the backend?  I thought we were adding all the DaD quirk-handlers into MoM as well.
<RainCT> last time I spoke with Adri2000 he said that Scott Remnant was reviewing his changes.. Haven't heard anything new sync then
<Lutin> persia: I'd have to dive into the MoM code a bit more, but I'm not sure it has anything to learn to MoM backend-wise
<Lutin> s/learn/teach
<persia> Lutin: Ah.  I thought there was a set of quirk-handlers already in MoM that would be expanded.  Some of it (like maintainer-mangling) ought be relatively useful to put there.
<persia> RainCT: When was that?
<RainCT> persia: some weeks ago
<Lutin> persia: ahh true, forgot about that on
<Lutin> e
<persia> Lutin: As much as I was unhappy with some of the details of implementation, I thought handling that was one of the ways in which the DaD backend excelled.
<persia> (and it only broke for extremely rare cases anyway, specifically where a sync was indicated)
<Lutin> ah, yes. the blank-diff thing. one of the things you can only avoid if you have the luxury of having a local debian mirror ;)
<Lutin> completely unrelated ... would anyone know the rational for having NoDisplay=true in gok's .desktop ?
<persia> Lutin: My memory was that it was considered a rare case that someone would want to launch it from the menu.  It generally would either be activated through System/Preferences/Assistive Technologies or not wanted at all.
<Lutin> fair enough
<Lutin> thanks, persia
<persia> Hmm.  It seems to have moved.  It's now part of System/Preferences/Preferred Applications
<Lutin> would that change anything ?
<persia> Only how a user gets to it.  System/Preferences/Assistive Technologies has a button to launch System/Preferences/Preferred Applications anyway (at least in hardy).
<Lutin> oh, okay
<Lutin> (sorry for the stupid question. I don't use gnome)
<sebner> Hobbsee: what do you think about syncing soundkonverter from now on? I'm asking because you are the last (self-package) uploader
<Hobbsee> sebner: what was my change to it?
<sebner> Hobbsee: build for ubuntu. https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/soundkonverter
<Hobbsee> sebner: i don't recall being overly against it, but i've not looked at the debian source recently
<sebner> Hobbsee: well debian never had it but since oktober 2007. So we can avoid double work. It's building and working fine so far.
<Hobbsee> ah, nice.
<sebner> Hobbsee: so I'll file a bug for you :)
<Hobbsee> sebner: awww.  you could just do it :P
<sistpoty> hi folks
<sebner> Hobbsee: ^^, no I'm a exemplary contributor -> asking the last uploader :P
<sebner> huhu sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi sebner
<geser> Hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi geser
<Hobbsee> sebner: ahhh
<sebner> Hobbsee: hmm?
<Hobbsee> sebner: sounds fine by me, i don't have any great attachment on it
<sebner> Hobbsee: ah k, With I quick look I'd say nothing speaks against it and we can avoid the double work =)
 * geser loves to be able to do give-backs for universe, less bugging of the buildd-admins :)
<sebner> geser: shiny new button I heart? ^^
<sistpoty> oh, can we do that nowadays, geser? cool :)
<geser> sistpoty: yes, since LP 1.2.5
<sistpoty> excellent!
<geser> use pitti's buildd.py script if you want less clicking
<RainCT> geser: cool. is that only for a certain group or any MOTU?
<geser> RainCT: any MOTU for now
<RainCT> geser: and where is that option?
<jpds> RainCT: /+retry
<geser> RainCT: go to the build record, e.g. https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdatetime-format-db2-perl/0.05-2/+build/583408 and click on "retry"
<RainCT> ah, great :)
<sistpoty> hm... I hope I set the SRU bug #204496 to the right state (fix committed). Is this correct after uploading?
<geser> sistpoty: for the SRUs I did in the last few days pitti set it to "Fix committed" after accepting the upload
<sistpoty> geser: ok, so what state should I put it in?
<geser> I don't know. I'd leave it like it is now.
<sistpoty> ok, thanks
<mok0> Where should mozilla plugins go? /usr/lib/xulrunner/plugins??
<RoAkSoAx> any bzr expert around?
<persia> RoAkSoAx: Best to just ask.  Few are brave enough to paint themselves a target...
<RoAkSoAx> ok let's see... i'm trying to add my blog to planet, but when i try to checkout it shows me an error similar to bug #230294 and i'm using bzr from the PPA
<bluefoxicy> upgrades suck, you have to babysit them like Windows
<bluefoxicy> upgrading 300 packages.  Come back 4 days later, it's 80 packages in and asking if you want to compare versions of /etc files
<mok0> bluefoxicy: what are you talking about? You can't upgrade Windows
<bluefoxicy> why hasn't the package manager continued on with other packages that don't depend on the package in question being upgraded, and come back to this?
<bluefoxicy> stopping the whole process is a down right broken way to handle questions on things that would be non-blocking if they failed to update (or could just be skipped)
<mok0> bluefoxicy: if you don't care about your config files, why don't you just do a clean install then?
<bluefoxicy> mok0:  here's the thing, openSSL wants to update.  It stops the whole process with 2 hours left to go to ask me about updating a file in /etc
<bluefoxicy> now, if you skip openSSL, everything works.
<bluefoxicy> so, logically, if you continue to install other packages that aren't asking questions while waiting for the user to answer the OpenSSL question, everything should continue just fine
<bluefoxicy> when the user wakes up 2 hours later, he'll have 5 minutes of questions to answer, rather than 2 hours of package installs to wait for.
<mok0> I see your point
<bluefoxicy> case in point, I have about 30% of an upgrade from last night to complete, which sholud take 45 minutes, had 2 hours to go about 10 hours ago but wanted to know about updating /boot/grub/menu.lst for memtest86+
<bluefoxicy> this obviously had to be dealt with, but has no bearing on anything else
<mok0> In fact, the install should never worry about changed config files, just leave them and copy the new ones with some extension.
<bluefoxicy> I'm sure while it was waiting for an answer it could have upgraded totem
<mok0> yeah, but the installer is not multithreaded
<bluefoxicy> so... fix it?
<bluefoxicy> my brain is too fried right now
<mok0> The install stuff has been rehashed pretty good. I am sure there's a good reason for doing it the way it is now
<bluefoxicy> mok0:  that doesn't mean the system isn't flawed
<mok0> bluefoxicy: file a bug against the installer, then
<bluefoxicy> it'd be more on the order of writing a spec
<bluefoxicy> maybe when I wake up
<mok0> Oh, you're asleep? :-)
<geser> bluefoxicy: use the non-interactive mode of debconf the next time
<bluefoxicy> geser:  I hit Upgrade in update-manager
<mok0> geser, I am merging gnome-chemistry-utils, you've done it before I see
<mok0> geser: what is the proper place to put the plugin these days, /usr/lib/xulrunner/plugins, and then with links to the various browsers?
<RainCT> mok0: asac might be able to help you, too
<mok0> RainCT: thanks!
<RainCT> np
<mok0> Lets see if he turns up...
<Festor> hi all
<Festor> about firefox 3
<Festor> Does anyone know where the source file of firefox are the options of about:config?
<mynyml> any chance i could get some help compiling a driver? I applied the patch mentioned at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xf86-input-evtouch/+bug/222164 but not quite sure what to do next
<RainCT> OT, is there some command which reads stdin and puts it into the clipboard
<andrew_sayers> RainCT: xclip
<RainCT> andrew_sayers: thanks
<RoAkSoAx> so anyone has had a problem bzr and planet ubuntu?
 * sistpoty is off again. cya
<asac> mok0: ?
<mok0> asac: what is the proper place to put the plugin these days? Is it /usr/lib/xulrunner/plugins, and then with links to the various browsers?
<sebner> mok0: see wiki page ;)
<mok0> sebner: url?
<sebner> mok0: I mean for the monkey icon ^^
<mok0> sebner: ah
<mok0> yay
<mok0> sebner: nice
<sebner> mok0: I'll tell him. If it doesn't win the contest (likely) maybe it can used for something else. dunnno
<mok0> sebner: It can be used for another team
<CarlFK> cinelerra/hvirtual$ dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -b
<CarlFK> opps, posted too soon...
<sebner> mok0: kk
 * RoAkSoAx still cant add his blog to planet ubuntu T.T
<asac> mok0: plugins should be installed in its own directory. e.g. /usr/lib/myplugin/libplugin.so
<asac> mok0: and then linked to browser dirs
<asac> mok0: use /usr/lib/xulrunner-addons/plugins/ for firefox support
<asac> epiphany and other xul 1.9 embedders will automatically get that then
<mok0> asac: so mozilla plugins?
<mok0> asac: in xulrunner-addons too?
<asac> only in xulrunner-addons/plugins yes.
<mok0> asac: got it, thanks!
<asac> mok0: and for apps using 1.8 in their individual dirs
<mok0> asac: 1.9 is default in ii, right?
<CarlFK> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -b;  dpkg-deb: building package `libguicast' in `../libguicast_2.1.0-1svn20060912ubuntu1_i386.deb'.  sudo gdebi libguicast_2.1.0-1svn20060912ubuntu1_i386.deb; "This package is uninstallable"
<CarlFK> um... why not?
<Lutin> CarlFK: missing dep ?
<CarlFK> Lutin: maybe, but shouldn't it tell me that?
<Lutin> doesn't it have a verbose switch ?
<CarlFK> man gedebi - gdebi [package.deb]
<CarlFK> gdebi -h shows a few more options, but no verbose.  but --apt-line might remotely help...
<CarlFK>  sudo gdebi --apt-line libguicast_2.1.0-1svn20060912ubuntu1_i386.deb = This package is uninstallable
 * CarlFK grumbles 
<norsetto> howdy dowdy
<geser> Hi norsetto
<norsetto> hey geser
<RoAkSoAx> anyone expert in bzr around??
<RainCT> RoAkSoAx: you might have more luck in #bzr
<RoAkSoAx> actually is more related to a Bug
<RoAkSoAx> can't add my blog to plant, cause it shows and error similar to bug #230294
<beuno> RoAkSoAx, update you version of bzr to the latest (1.5)
<beuno> that will fix it
<beuno> ppa: https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive
<RoAkSoAx> beuno, it is latest version and shows this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16005/ and the .bzr.log shows this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16006/
<RoAkSoAx> beuno, i used the PPA to install it
<beuno> RoAkSoAx, you're using 1.5?
<RoAkSoAx> beuno, yes i'am, the thing is that when installing it says that the package could not be verified... and i've tried doing it either on my laptop and desktop, and shows the same thing in both
<beuno> yes, that's because of PPA, so it's normal
<RoAkSoAx> beuno, ok, so still i got those errors
<beuno> can you triple check with "bzr version"?
<RoAkSoAx> roaksoax@roaksoax-desktop:~$ bzr --version
<RoAkSoAx> Bazaar (bzr) 1.5
<beuno> doesn't look like bug #230294 though
<RoAkSoAx> first i thought it was a problem to upgrades,  cuz when upgrading my internet connection failed.. but then i tried it on my laptop... and shows the same error
<beuno> RoAkSoAx, can we move this to #bzr?
<lukehasnoname_> soooo
* lukehasnoname_ changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: ï»¿https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | 8.04 is released: Let's fix any SRU-worthy bugs before the users try the package. | Intrepid open, go wild! https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/. WHATUP?
* stgraber changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | 8.04 is released: Let's fix any SRU-worthy bugs before the users try the package. | Intrepid open, go wild! https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com
<lukehasnonam2> ;_;
<lukehasnonam2> I didn't think it would work; I expected it to be an admin-only event
<stgraber> We trust our users not to break things, it's easier to fix things when that happen rather than limit the access
<jpds> lukehasnonam2: +t is not set here.
<lukehasnonam2> hm
<lukehasnonam2> k
<bluefoxicy> To those who have clicked "no" many times
<bluefoxicy> you can stop now
<bluefoxicy> Ubuntu automatically selects "yes" for you.
 * bluefoxicy kills F-spot.
<jpds> hmm
<emgent> heya
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-01
<nhandler> I'm currently working on my own version of MoM. It is not even close to being finished, but I wanted to post a link here in order to get some feedback and suggestions. I am fully aware of both MoM and DaD. But since this is an open source community where anyone/everyone can contribute, I wanted to make my own version. http://utilities.servehttp.com/SuperMoM/SuperMoM.html. Some notes: packages are taken from MoM. Click
<nhandler> ing on the name of the last uploader takes you to their LP page. The email address is a mailto link. The Versions are taken from MoM. The bug column searched LP for any bugs that reference the Debian version in their title. This is by no means perfect, but it worked pretty well. I will be adding a way to manually modify the bug #. I will also probably add separate comment and assignment columns. Also, try clicking on
<nhandler> the asterisk to the left of a package name ;). Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
<persia> nhandler: Why?  While competition is good and all, there's already lots of confusion between merge tools.  If you have a neat feature, I'd encourage you to look at https://launchpad.net/merge-o-matic and try extending that code to include your feature.
<nhandler> persia: The goal of my tool is to be sort of like a front end for MoM. Also MoM was made in Python. I'm not as familiar with Python as I am with Perl. My goal is to create a site that allows you to view the packages that need to be merged/synced in as many different ways as possible.
<persia> nhandler: OK.  I'll warn you that you'll have significant trouble getting mindshare with a different tool, especially one that cannot be merged with the existing tool due to differences in the means of implementation.
<persia> On the other hand, if you are trying to create a method of viewing the packages in lots of different ways, you may also find multidistrotools an interesting codebase to explore.
<nhandler> persia: Thanks. I'll take a look at multidistrotools.
<RoAkSoAx> hi all... kinda OT question... but does anyone nows how to fix the RSS in planet.ubuntu.com ?? i can't get my blog working correctly there!!
<santiago-ve> hi guys...
<santiago-ve> yesterday.... i was trying to merge kguitar for intrepid with the help of effie_jayx... effie_jayx was guiding me with the MoM package and i was using the DaD package.. we found a big difference: the MoM pkg has two makefiles a .debian and a .ubuntu but the dad package does not... so which one we use for merging? MoM or DaD? besides this... no other changes where detected.. and the changes of the debian package seems have the ubuntu
<santiago-ve> changes aswell
<Hobbsee> mom, usually
<Hobbsee> now, kguitar...
<Hobbsee> ah yes, i thoguht i remembered playing with that
<santiago-ve> Hobbsee, yes, your name is on the changelog
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: as a general rule, if the packages are done proerly, you won't need to merge anything outside debian/ - those makefiles and stuff get automatically regenerated.
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: so the only thing you're looking for in that one is if the ubuntu changes made it to debian
<santiago-ve> Hobbsee, they did
<Hobbsee> did they?
<santiago-ve> as far as i could check..
<Hobbsee> what about the dh_iconcache?
<Hobbsee> (which is now dh_icons in debian)
<santiago-ve> it did
<santiago-ve> ohhh
<santiago-ve> that's something different
<santiago-ve> ;=
<santiago-ve> ;)
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: poke bddebian, and get him to push that change in as well.
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: then request the sync.
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: bddebian is the guy who's done that debian upload, and is also an ubuntu guy.
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: that's what i'd suggest doing, anyway :)
<santiago-ve> hmmm wel Hobbsee im new in this world... so where i find him/her?
<santiago-ve> him*
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: no problem.  he'll appear on this channel, probably in the next day or so.
<Hobbsee> looks like seenserv is dead, so you won't be able to check when he last left
<santiago-ve> Hobbsee, so i dont change the the dh_iconcache to dh_icons, because it has been made somewhere else?
<santiago-ve> Hobbsee, k
<Hobbsee> [13:13] [Notice] -NickServ- Last seen  : May 31 04:46:52 2008 (22 hours, 26 minutes, 48 seconds ago)
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: you would want to change it there, in your merge.  but you can do one step better, in getting all the changes pushed back to debian, then to sync.
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: (dh_iconcache is now deprecated, and replaced by dh_icons)
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: which will save you work indefinetly.
<santiago-ve> Hobbsee, mkay! thanks :D
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: you're welcome :)
<santiago-ve> well meanwhile
<santiago-ve> back to try packaging kpogre~
 * Hobbsee wonders if the debian version of kimwitu now builds.
<fale_> hello
<fale> is there anyone?
 * Hobbsee syncs kimwitu
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: could you merge kimwitu-doc for me?
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: looks pretty easy
<santiago-ve> Hobbsee, sure
<santiago-ve> which one? dad or mom?
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: they should turn out the same, but i find MoM easier to read and work with
<santiago-ve> mom then
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: mom at least to have a few more intelligent merging things about it.  unsure about the case now
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: if you give me a link, i can upload
<Hobbsee> argh, crud.  i never replied to the debian guys, either
<santiago-ve> Hobbsee, upload what? <.<
<santiago-ve> remember im new on this xD!
<Hobbsee> santiago-ve: your merge.
<santiago-ve> Hobbsee, k
<santiago-ve> the kimwitu-doc? one right?
<Hobbsee> yup
<santiago-ve> k
<santiago-ve> gonna download... and prepare everything here...
<fale> Hobbsee: do you know who is packaging kde?
<nhandler> Hey Hobsee, do you know why DaD sometimes lists packages that aren't listed on MoM?
<Hobbsee> fale: lots of people
<fale> Hobbsee: you have some names of people that are online atm?
<Hobbsee> nhandler: Adri2000 would be a better one to answer that, but iirc, it's usually that mom's got some special bits in it, ie, some merges from experimental, etc.
<Hobbsee> fale: see #kubuntu-devel, but i don't know how many are awake now
<fale> Hobbsee: ok, thx :)
<nhandler> Thanks Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> y/w
 * Hobbsee builds an intrepid pbuilder
<Hobbsee> Fetched 61.9MB in 1min31s (678kB/s)
<Hobbsee> tasty.
<Hobbsee> spamprobe needs a merge, too
<slavik> any chance for pugs packages to be available for hardy?
<Flannel> Anyone know why ubuntustudio doesn't follow the -desktop metapackage model?
<Hobbsee> slavik: does it qualify for a sru?
<Hobbsee> Flannel: it doesn't?
<slavik> sru?
<slavik> Hobbsee: gutsy and older have ghc6 6.6, hardy has 6.8, that is the reason why pugs is not buildable ...
<Flannel> Hobbsee: No, you have to install ubuntustudio-desktop and a bunch of other packages to get the same thing as the CD
<Flannel> Hobbsee: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/UpgradingFromHardy five packages (and then the realtime kernel, which shouldn't be part of the desktop package)
<slavik> Flannel: audio stuff needs an rt kernel ...
<Hobbsee> Flannel: ahhh.  strange.  You'd really have to ask that in the ubuntustudio channels
<Hobbsee> #ubuntustudio, it looks like
<slavik> Hobbsee: ubuntustudio is for audio recording and those apps need the rt kernel
<Flannel> slavik: Regardless, kernels aren't deps of -desktop packages, and I'm pretty sure you only need -rt if you're actually capturing
<Hobbsee> slavik: yes, i'm aware
<Flannel> if you're just editing, you'd be fine without rt
<slavik> Flannel: ubuntustudio is for recording, too. hence the requirement
<slavik> ie: studio use
<Hobbsee> slavik: they won't get added to hardy at this point - they're not even in there in source form (i'd assumed that they were, but hadn't built, when i asked about the sru)
<slavik> what's sru?
<Hobbsee> !sru
<Hobbsee> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<Flannel> slavik: Well, you'd still be able to have "ubuntu studio" without the realtime kernel.  But that's moot, kernels don't depend on desktop packages, and thats not the issue.  The issue is that -audio -video -graphics and -audio-plugins ought to be depends of -desktop.
<TheMuso> Laney: No, users may want to use graphics apps, but not worry about audio apps.
<TheMuso> Flannel: ^^
<TheMuso> Laney: sorry
<Flannel> TheMuso: right, but there's nothing wrong with removing the -desktop metapackage.  If you install Ubuntu, and don't want Epiphany (or whatever), you remove the -desktop metapackage, no harm, no foul.
<TheMuso> -> #ubuntustudio
<Flannel> If I install studio from the Alternate CD, it installs all three.  If I install the -desktop metapackage, I expect a similar system
<ernstp> I'm working on packaging an application with a wierd buildsystem
<ernstp> so I need to override all the default sections in the rules-file
<ernstp> having trouble finding the correct documentation though
<ernstp> something runs ./configure and it's not me :-)
<Iulian> G'morning
<white> anyone here using 915resolution or knows a bit about acpi resume?
<white> i am wondering about the ubuntu patch for 915resolution and if this patch is ubuntu specific or if we can push it into debian somehow
<white> it can probably be removed completely, but I am not sure, if there is no driver left that needs it
<cartman> white:  new intel driver supposed to fix that already
<white> cartman: any other driver that needed 915resolution and still does?
<cartman> as far as I know, none
<white> ah now i remember about the ubuntu patch and how debian does it (with acpi-support)
<cartman> white: but you can always ask in #xorg I guess :)
<white> cartman: yeah thought so, i'll wait for news from the debian-x team and then ask for removal from debian :)
<cartman> good plan :)
<wgrant> white: It's unlikely that 915resolution should stick around for lenny - I haven't had a use for it in over 12 months.
<wgrant> -intel works on everything -i810 does.
<white> good, one package less :)
<white> wgrant: how is life btw?
<white> wgrant: and why is NM taking so long? :)
<wgrant> white: My AM seems to no longer be responding.
<wgrant> And I've been busy with uni.
<white> ah, ok
<sebner> aloha afflux ;)
<afflux> hi sebner
<RAOF> Gah!  What needs a rebuild against libffi5?
<RAOF> This is a question that shall be investigated further in the morning.
<effie_jayx> morning all..
<cody-somerville> Morning
<devfil> geser: ping
<geser> devfil: pong
<devfil> geser: I wish to work at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/graphviz/+bug/230016
<devfil> can I work on it=
<devfil> ?
<devfil> s/on it/on they
<geser> devfil: sure, if you do the merge for graphviz, this bug gets automatically fixed
<devfil> geser: I wish to fix all the bug reported
<devfil> Rebuild with perl 5.10
<amikrop> Greetings. I am interested in helping packaging hardware drivers (especially for dial-up modems, or usb modems) for making new users' experience with Ubuntu, more easy, automated and pleasant.
<persia> amikrop: user-space or kernel-space?
<amikrop> kernel-space
<directhex> entirely gpl things? many dial-up softmodems have highly prohibitive licenses
<amikrop> I don't mean starting development from scratch, but mainly creating the Debian packages, or fixing some bugs, and generally make the process of getting hardware up and running, more automated.
<amikrop> directhex: I don't know. Maybe.
<amikrop> Are there any related efforts initiated?
<amikrop> E.g. are there any plans like those?
<directhex> specifically for modems? no. but the ubuntu kernel team do package things outside "standard" numbered kernel releases
<amikrop> Why only outside stndard releases?
<amikrop> * standard
<directhex> because there are things that aren't always in a given kernel version from kernel.org
<persia> And it's not only outside.  The Ubuntu kernel team also pushes a fair bit into upstream that makes the standard kernel releases.
<persia> Best source of information is #ubuntu-kernel during American (the continents) business hours.
<sebner> persia: is uqm still maintained?
<gnomefreak> geser: are you around for a quick question about your rebuild of irssi
<persia> sebner: I'm taking it over, as soon as I can figure out how to do packaging in git properly.
 * persia is just fiddling with debian/control locally now
<sebner> persia: I mean upstream
<persia> sebner: To a fair degree.  MeepNeep (or similar) in #uqm was a great source of information towards getting the Debian packages compatible with third-party add-ons.  I don't think they release very often.
<persia> sebner: Why?
<sebner> persia: because it seems to be pretty old ^^
<sebner> persia: ah latest release is over a year old but still seems to be active. propse a 3D port :P
<persia> sebner: Well, 3D wouldn't really hold the flavour of SC2, but such is life...
<persia> Anyway, it's fairly stable.  There are add-on packs that people make once in a while, but as an engine it's not likely to change much.
<sebner> persia: kk
<geser> gnomefreak: sure
<sebner> persia: and of course this was only a meta-question to hint you about uqm and the missing ACK for the special sync and the merge ^^
<geser> gnomefreak: is there a problem with it?
<gnomefreak> geser: irssi depends on packages we dont have and never had in repos was this done by debian or upstream?
<effie_jayx> I have a question, I am currently working on a merge (bakery2.4) and It seems the confid.sub has many changes in ubutnu that relate to more cpu combinations, however I do not see any change or element in the changelog that alows me to understand the resoning behind the change. what do you suggest that I do?
<gnomefreak> geser: i posted the output on the bug about the respinning on perl
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: config.{guess,sub} usually get regenerated during build, so you don't need to merge them
<persia> sebner: Right.  I still don't have the build chroots I'd need (although I ought have them soon).  Anyway, I'll probably grab everything that was for the merge in the next Debian upload, to make it a sync.
<amikrop> directhex, persia: OK. I see.
<gnomefreak> geser: bug 230016 is the bug
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  right. that clears it
<persia> Hobbsee: Umm.  That's not a good rule of thumb.  Many packages don't reset during build, and some people think that's poor style.
<sebner> persia: *nice* \o/
 * persia likes to regenerate during build
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee, dad marks it as a change though
<gnomefreak> geser: here is bug address since bot is borked https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libcrypt-blowfish-perl/+bug/230016
<Hobbsee> persia: sure, but not by hand.
<persia> effie_jayx: If you do encounter a merge on those though, you're best off just copying the updated ones from autotools-dev, rather than merging by hand.
<Hobbsee> persia: as in, ilne by line.
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  I just type slow...
 * gnomefreak not sure if sid or lemmy has those pacakges since my debian chroots are not finished
<geser> gnomefreak: which version of irssi was this? irssi (on i386) got build today as it was in CHROOTWAIT before
<gnomefreak> does sid get outdated or is it updated with experimental
<gnomefreak> 0.8.12-3ubuntu3
<geser> wait for -3ubuntu4
<effie_jayx> persia, right!
<gnomefreak> geser: ok thanks i wasnt sure if you had known or not :)
<geser> it should hit the archive soon (it was build for i386 just one hour ago)
<gnomefreak> geser: ah ok thanks.
<amikrop> Where can I find all the available "Section"s for Debian packages?
<amikrop> (e.g. web, devel, etc)
<geser> in the debian policy manual
<persia> amikrop: /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/policy.html/ch-controlfields.html
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  should I assume then that it is the same for config.guess?
<persia> (or at least that will have a link)
<geser> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
<amikrop> OK, guys. Thanks.
<geser> amikrop: ^^
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: yes.
<geser> gnomefreak: if you don't want to wait: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14880508/irssi_0.8.12-3ubuntu4_i386.deb
<gnomefreak> geser: thanks ill try it out
<gnomefreak> geser: not looking good
<geser> gnomefreak: no?
<gnomefreak> geser: same package deps it looks like
<gnomefreak> geser: looks like all the perl packages plus one or 2 we dont have in repos at all
<geser> gnomefreak: libperl5.8 is now libperl5.10 and perlapi-5.8.8 (provided by perl-base) is now perlapi-5.10.0
<gnomefreak> geser: they are broken
<gnomefreak> let me pastebin it
<geser> gnomefreak: we are still in the middle of the perl 5.10 transition
<geser> in my minimal intrepid chroot (AMD64) irssi is installable again
<gnomefreak> that could be the issue http://pastebin.mozilla.org/448252 atleast i think it is
<gnomefreak> geser: mines not on 386
<gnomefreak> those perl packages have been held back for a few weeks so im not sure how you got it to install unless you have the packages you built installed
<geser> try apt-get -f install and check what it wants to remove before you proceed
<gnomefreak> geser: alot if its like dist-upgrade but lets see
<gnomefreak> abiword libperl5.8 libversion-perl
<geser> gnomefreak: my intrepid chroot is minimal, only the base packages are installed and some packages use for package building
<gnomefreak> i can live without them i think
<gnomefreak> not sure about the 2 perl packages
<geser> libversion-perl is waiting on libmodule-build-perl getting transtioned
<geser> I haven't looked on abiword yet
<gnomefreak> do i "need" libperl and libversion-perl that i posted above?
<geser> libperl5.8 is the old one, the new one is libperl5.10
<sebner> persia: sometimes I love debian. Just 2 hours ago I reported something back and now they release a new version with my fix =) (thought with a lot others too but somehow a great luck)
<geser> libperl5.8 is a NBS
<persia> sebner: Some maintainers are easier to work with than others.  Nice job.
<gnomefreak> ok cool i didnt think it was updated yet
<gnomefreak> geser: thanks ill be back i have some house work to do
<geser> np
 * geser goes back into the sun
<sebner> persia: syncs \o/. But I can understand if a maintainer doesn't share our opinion but if somebody ignores us -.-
<persia> sebner: Well, sometimes people are busy.
<sebner> persia: busy? Sure. I also think so when I see a bug that is >300 days old without reponse ;)
<gnomefreak> geser: its still borked on perl packages
<gnomefreak> geser: its seems perl depends on perl-base and perl-modules
<geser> gnomefreak: as I said intrepid is in the middle of the perl 5.10 transition
<geser> gnomefreak: I myself will update to intrepid after the perl 5.10 transition is finished
<santiago-ve> hi guys...     what does this means? "+ Fix bashism in clean rule. "?
<santiago-ve> i know is debian/rules related... but... no idea to tell the truth
<santiago-ve> :S
<amikrop> A package depends on kernel 2.6.16 or better. What dependencies do I need to declare?
<amikrop> (e.g. in the control file)
<gnomefre1k> geser: ok im still working on getting it installed
<DktrKranz> santiago-ve, these are commands dash doesn't understand well, they cause weird errors such FTBFS, missing files or something similar
<santiago-ve> DktrKranz, thanks...
<gnomefre1k> geser: i had to install using -f 2 times but looks like it worked
<gnomefre1k> ill be back
<santiago-ve> anoither question... the dm said: Build-Depends: debhelper (>> 5.0.0), ghostscript, but the ubuntumotu said: Build-Depends-Indep: texlive-latex-recommended, texlive-extra-utils, ghostscript
<santiago-ve> which line should i take?
<santiago-ve> the ubuntu one?
<persia> santiago-ve: Is ghostscript required to build arch:any or arch:all packages?
<directhex> build-depends-indep are different from build-depends
<DktrKranz> santiago-ve, could you please point to the package you're looking at?
<santiago-ve> DktrKranz,  kimwitu-doc
<directhex> build-depends-indep are needed to generate architecture-independent files which are kept in a separate package (e.g. artwork or documentation). singling them out can speed up the build servers, since they only need to install & build the -indep files once (other architectures can skip those files entirely, as the -indep packages are built on i386)
<santiago-ve> mkay
 * persia notes that the dependencies for the clean rule have to be in Build-Depends: even for arch:all packages
<santiago-ve> this is a doc package~
<Jazzva> Anyone willing to review a patch for gnome-voice-control in intrepid: bug 219303? It was uploaded for hardy and got ack from motu-release. I have prepared the fix for intrepid too (changing the version and release in changelog) and tested it. Thanks.
<Jazzva> s/uploaded/submitted/
<persia> santiago-ve: Even so, it will have Architecture fields in debian/control
<santiago-ve> i dont see these
<persia> santiago-ve: pastebin your debian/control?
<santiago-ve> persia, http://ubuntu-ve.pastebin.com/m2b6c1dda
<directhex> #
<directhex> Architecture: all
<persia> santiago-ve: OK.  Look at line 17.  That will tell you if this is arch:any or arch:all.
<directhex> looks like an Architecture field to me
<directhex> maybe i need new glasses though
<santiago-ve> errr... let me get my glasses XD
<persia> santiago-ve: The guidance from policy for Architecture: all packages is that Build-Depends should have everything required to run clean (or build the source, depending on how you look at it), and Build-Depends-Indep should have everything required to build the binary.
<persia> santiago-ve: On the other hand, it doesn't matter very much, and if this is the only variance between Debian and Ubuntu, it's not worth maintaining the change.
<amikrop> In other words, how can I make sure the linux kernel 2.6.16 or higher is installed?
<amikrop> Which package do I need to declare as dependency in my control file to ensure that linux 2.6.16 or better is present in the system?
<santiago-ve> persia, so what do i dowith control? discard the debian changes?
<persia> santiago-ve: Are there other changes in the package for which you are maintaining Ubuntu variation?
<santiago-ve> persia, gonna look if the DM included the ubuntu changes, like this one:     + Fix bashism in clean rule.
<santiago-ve> but not sure how to check that one...
<persia> santiago-ve: Not to discourage you, but you may find yourself more productive trying to fix outstanding bugs whilst you gain more familiarity with the structure of Debian-format packages.
<santiago-ve> persia, dont worry ill give it a try :p
<persia> santiago-ve: Good luck!
<santiago-ve> Thaks
<geser> amikrop: a dependency on the kernel version won't help you as it doesn't guarantee that the kernel is also being used
<amikrop> geser: Anyway, how can I do what I ask?
<amikrop> (or, even better, what will help me?)
<santiago-ve> amikrop, why you depend on aspecific kernell?
<amikrop> santiago-ve: Because I need a specific module.
<santiago-ve> hmm...
<santiago-ve> persia, to finish with this package... pbuilder did it fine... now going with merge-buildpackages
 * persia cringes from yet more tools to make it easier to do things without investigating the details
<amikrop> geser: So, any ideas?
<geser> amikrop: sorry, no
<amikrop> ok
<geser> amikrop: you could check during runtime if the needed kernel or modules is available and give a meaningfull error message if it's not
<amikrop> ok
<danielm> hi all
<danielm> the name and email field at debian/changelog should be MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com> ?
<persia> danielm: For modified Ubuntu packages, I use "Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>"
<persia> (At least for universe: main is different)
<danielm> ok, thanks :)
<emgent> ScottK: ping
<yannick> How can a packages builded with ppa " have unmet dependencies" like that: The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<yannick>   ekiga-snapshot: DÃ©pend: libebook1.2-9 (>= 1.12.1) but 1.12.0-0ubuntu5 is installed.
<yannick>                   DÃ©pend: libedataserver1.2-9 (>= 1.12.1) but 1.12.0-0ubuntu5 is installed.
<yannick>                   DÃ©pend: libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.18.3) but 1.18.2-0ubuntu1 is installed.
<cody-somerville> yannick, the requested versions don't exist
<yannick> cody-somerville, then how is it possible it builded? there no check against that?
<cody-somerville> I'm pretty sure we try to squash all bugs.
<cody-somerville> Unfortunately that is a tough job
<yannick> cody-somerville, in the build log I see this: Get:222 http://ftpmaster.internal gutsy-updates/main libebook1.2-9 1.12.1-0ubuntu2 [90.0kB]
<yannick> cody-somerville, Does it means i need gutsy update repository?
<cody-somerville> yup
<yannick> ok...
<sebner> geser: evolution-sharp got synced. now let's wait for the build =)
<bitbuzter> i'm trying to upload a package to my PPA.. but it rejects the package with the error: "MD5 sum of uploaded file does not match existing file in archive"
<bitbuzter> any idea? md5's are ok :(
<geser> did you upload the same upstream version of the package already or does it exist in the official archive?
<bitbuzter> no, different version.. yes, there is a version at universe (lower version)
<bitbuzter> the version format is the problem?
 * cody-somerville nods.
<bitbuzter> ok..
<bitbuzter> i was looking for somehting else.. thanks, i will review the version then
<bitbuzter> :)
<bluefoxicy> hmm.  putting vboxmouse as the driver works, vboxvideo doesn't auto-resize though.
<bitbuzter> oh.. i was using intrepid instead hardy on the changelog.. that could be the problem?
<geser> bitbuzter: no, that's not the problem.
<geser> bitbuzter: what package did you try to upload to your PPA?
<RoAkSoAx> a
<RoAkSoAx> hi all
<bitbuzter> geser: thanks for your help. Finally i delete a previous build from my ppa, and re-upload it make it work.
<geser> bitbuzter: for the next time use the same .orig.tar.gz
<bitbuzter> ok :)
<Gnontghol> I have now merged ruby-prof (#236538)
<a7p> may I have a word with someone upon SRU-sponsorship?
<geser> a7p: do you have an ACK from ~motu-sru already?
<a7p> geser, no, nothing - I want to know some things about the procedure and if my patch is suitable for SRU.
<geser> ah
<a7p> it's an softlink-fix for a rather unimportant package (vim-latexsuite).
<geser> a7p: where is the debdiff?
<Gnontghol> I have merged ruby-prof, I now have a nice source package. It says I have to contact an MOTU so here I am.
<a7p> geser, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vim-latexsuite/+bug/225411/comments/6
<geser> a7p: it's usually not needed to use dpatch patches to patch files in debian/
<geser> a7p: and also wrong version, it should be 20060325-4.1ubuntu0.1 and target hardy-proposed
<a7p> geser, so I learned something again - woundered about it to.
<geser> a7p: and there to be some jump in your changes: see the second chunk for debian/changelog
<Gnontghol> geser: Care to help me for a moment?
<a7p> geser, okay, I will check it - but you think it makes sense to build that package for SRU? or will it be rejected?
<Gnontghol> Anyone want to help me completing my merge of ruby-prof?
<a7p> Gnontghol, patience ...
<geser> Gnontghol: how can I help you?
<sebner> geser: -.- -.- -.-
<Gnontghol> geser: I have merged ruby-prof from debian and wander what to do now
<emgent> sebner: please remove smile mode
<sebner> emgent: hrhr. I suppose he knows what I mean ^^
<geser> Gnontghol: create a debdiff, file a bug requesting sponsorship and attach the debdiff to it
<Gnontghol> geser: Shal I create the debdiff from the ubuntu or debian package, and there is a bug (#236538) already open, shal I open a new one?
<RoAkSoAx> Gnontghol: the debdiff is between the newer debian and ubuntu version
<Gnontghol> RoAkSoAx: Thanks
<directhex> i.e. a debdiff to make 1.0-1ubuntu1 from debian's 1.0-1
<RoAkSoAx> Gnontghol: the thing is that the bug you say is already open is a sync, so no need to generate a debdiff...
<Gnontghol> RoAkSoAx: I just realized that the patches in the ubuntu version have been applied in the upstream version so it is indeed a sync, but I still don't know what to do.
<RoAkSoAx> Gnontghol: since someone already filed a bug, there's nothing you can do... so you should find another package and merge it ;)
<Gnontghol> RoAkSoAx: Ok. But I find it is hard to know what I can do and what I can't do.
<RoAkSoAx> Gnontghol: are you using MoM or DaD?
<RoAkSoAx> once you pick a package you should check if someone already filed a bug, if not.. you can work on it
<Gnontghol> RoAkSoAx: MoM, so bug reports are not requests for me to do something.
<a7p> geser, mmm ... who do i make dch create a 0.1-step? Is there any switch (which I can not finde) or do I have to do it by hand?
<geser> I usually do it by hand
<a7p> done - should I upload it again, or pass it to someone directly?
<geser> a7p: attach the new debdiff to the bug, subscribe motu-sru and wait for feedback (ACK)
<a7p> thx, hope everything is proper now.
<a7p> geser, should I set the status to "Fix commited"
<geser> a7p: no, the bug gets to set to "Fix commited" after it got uploaded and accepted to hardy-proposed
<a7p> okay - remembered something of that kind.
<sebner> geser: I recieved now a lot of build-failure mails so I'm really sad now ^^
<geser> a7p: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14892497/fixed_symlinks.debdiff looks broken or at least parts are missing (you still have the extra " s" line in the changelog)
<geser> sebner: for evolution-sharp?
<sebner> geser: yep. the evolution depend is totally b0rken
<a7p> geser, what do you mean by extra " s" line?
<geser> see http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14892497/fixed_symlinks.debdiff
<geser> there is a "+ s" line
<a7p> ah, see it ... no idea how it got there ... cat must have made vimentry.
<geser> and your change is missing completely now
 * a7p is confused
<a7p> did remove the dpatch usage
<geser> a7p: but did you apply the changes directly instead?
<a7p> thought so.
<a7p> but debdiff will know better
<a7p> will apply it again.
<a7p> geser, what about the (in librarian) broken umlauts in my Name? does a changlog have to be ASCII?
<PasNox> i try to create/update a soruce package
<PasNox> when i use uupdate it badly update the changelog file
<PasNox> it add an email witch is false ( user@user-desktop)
<PasNox> where ican fix this please ?
<a7p> PasNox, the environment variables DEBEMAIL seems to be set incorrectly.
<PasNox> a7p: ok let try
<PasNox> a7p: thanks exporting the DEBEMAIL works great
<PasNox> but there is a way to pass the email via command ine to uupdate ?
<geser> a7p: UTF-8 should be okay, I guess librarian doesn't know that it's UTF-8
<a7p> PasNox, you can set the variable just for the context of the specific program (which I do not know).
<geser> PasNox: DEBEMAIL=your@address uupdate should work
<PasNox> geser: it's not possible to directly give the gpg id ?
<PasNox> so i don't need give email ?
<PasNox> i would liek to not force the script to handle email
<geser> PasNox: gpg id? for the signing you mean?
<PasNox> geser: yes
<geser> debsign -k your_gpg_id your_package_source.changes will sign the .dsc and the .changes file with the specified gpg id
<norsetto> greetings and salutations
<PasNox> geser: i not call it myself, i use uupdate then debuild -S -sa --lintian-opts -i -k0$id
<PasNox> where $id is my gpg id
<PasNox> the probleme is that uupdate add email ike pasnox@pasnox-desktop
<PasNox> instead of the email associate with my gpg id
<PasNox> is tehre a way giving uupdate a gpg id ?
<sebner> aloha norsetto =)
<geser> PasNox: uupdate uses dch to add the changelog entry which uses the values from DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME (if they are set)
<PasNox> what mean dch ?
<geser> man dch
<PasNox> ok
<norsetto> man dch
<norsetto> ok, I did it, what gives?
<geser> dch helps you with editing the debian/changelog
<sebner> dch -i creates a new entry with your name etc
<geser> PasNox: debuild tries to find the right gpg key by looking at the name and email from the last changelog entry
<norsetto> dch -i
<PasNox> geser: yes, the probleme is that when using uupdate, it add email pasnox@pasnox-desktop, instead of taking the last one setted in the changelog
<norsetto> boh
<tacone> norsetto: is boh english ? :)
<geser> PasNox: as already said, export DEBEMAIL/DEBFULLNAME with the correct value
 * norsetto checks his Collins
<PasNox> geser: yes, but i want not to be needed to give fullname/email, only gpg id, it's not possible for uupdate to take entry from a gpg id ?
<geser> PasNox: there is no guarantee that the person doing the current update is the same as the one doing the last
<PasNox> yeah
<geser> PasNox: no
<PasNox> it's why my update script can take gpg id
<PasNox> damn
<geser> PasNox: and as gpg keys can have several uid which one should it take? first one? last one? random?
<norsetto> tacone: negative
<PasNox> ok
<PasNox> so i need rewrite my script dam :)
<PasNox> thanks
<PasNox> let script :))
<PasNox> gpg --help
<PasNox> oups
<norsetto> bah
<sebner> norsetto: ?
<norsetto> oh well: tacone is an operator on channels: #fanculo
<norsetto> sebner: !
<tacone> norsetto: LOL, don't add anything, please :)
<sebner> norsetto: I only know favanculo <-- ?
<norsetto> sebner: thats a new one to me ;-)
<tacone> norsetto: sebner version could be traslated with the same meaning.
<norsetto> tacone: its actually funnier than the original
<sebner> ^^
<tacone> yes norsetto, but we can talk about it on an official channel only because few people can understand it
<norsetto> sebner: wanna merge?
<sebner> norsetto: hmm. depends what you offer
<norsetto> sebner: hmmm, depends what you can offer actually ...
<sebner> norsetto: lol. so what do you have?
<norsetto> sebner: http://dad.dunnewind.net/eggdrop
<sebner> norsetto: you comment on dad somehow makes me afraid ^^
<norsetto> sebner: well, if you did the merge with the old patch would have been better?
<sebner> norsetto: ^^, are you or is debian unwilling to submit/accept the patch?
<norsetto> sebner: the question to ask ourselves is, why do we have that patch?
<sebner> norsetto: if you tell me I won't have to search and your chances that I do the merge increase :P
<norsetto> sebner: no, I'm not going to ruin the fun, you have to find that out
<PasNox> i try to execute a command in shell and get the result in a variable but it seem not working, someone have idea :
<sebner> norsetto: no need to. I know I have to take the patch. Why doesn't matter :P
<PasNox> here is the line : export DEBEMAIL=`echo gpg --list-key ED11858D | grep uid`
<RAOF> PasNox: You don't need the echo.
<RAOF> Also, $(command) is generally considered cleaner than `command` ;)
<PasNox> if i not set it s hangry
<PasNox> maybe becasue the result contains spaces
<Daviey> isn't `command` a bashism?
<RAOF> PasNox: Aah, right.  You probably want to $(sh -c "gpg --list-key foo  | grep uid")
<PasNox> thanks
<RAOF> PasNox: The 'echo' you have there will mean that DEBEMAIL="gpg --listkey foo | grep uid"
<PasNox> i have same error : export: 88: <pasnox@gmail.com>: bad variable name
<PasNox> i think quoting again
<RAOF> Why don't you go "export DEBEMAIL="<pasnox@gmail.com>""? :)
<RAOF> You should probably also see exactly what gpg --list-key ED11858D | grep uid spits out, too.
<PasNox> the command give => uid                  Filipe AZEVEDO <pasnox@gmail.com>
<ryanakca> Why would a package build in one person's clean, fresh, up-to-date pbuilder, but not in anothers?
<PasNox> and dch man say DEBEMAIL can containt fullname and email
<PasNox> and it will auto set debfullname as name
<laga> ryanakca: different arch?
<RAOF> PasNox: Which isn't what you're after, right?  I'm pretty sure that 'uid' isn't in your fullname or email :)
<ryanakca> laga: ah :)
<PasNox> and as i only want my script require gpg id i need get the email / fullname myself
<sebner> norsetto: This patch allows your bot to connect to IRC servers using SSL where available   HAHA!!
<PasNox> RAOF: as signed name i need : Filipe AZEVEDO <pasnox@gmail.com>
<PasNox> what my gpg id contains
<RAOF> PasNox: How many times do you change your DEBFULLNAME or DEBEMAIL?  I just set them once in my environment.
<sebner> norsetto: I hate debian -.- , Severity: wishlist; Tags: patch, wontfix;
<PasNox> RAOF: i do a script so any guyz in my team can generate package without knowledge
 * norsetto wonders whats the diff between felipe and filipe
<PasNox> not only me
<PasNox> Felipe is more spanish
<PasNox> Filipe is more portuguese
<norsetto> ah, makes sense
<RAOF> PasNox: Aah.  Well, you'll need to do some seddery on the string you get back from sed.
<sebner> norsetto: but the question is why do you want *me* to merge especiallay *that* package ^^
<PasNox> RAOF: i'm totally new at shell script :D i need small help if u can :)
<sebner> huhu joejaxx
<sebner> huhu jono
<sebner> s^^
<jono> hello sebner
<RAOF> PasNox: Although I'm not sure that generating packages without knowledge is a worthwhile goal :P
<PasNox> i will not often online, so team must be able to easily package our application
<norsetto> sebner: whats so scary in that merge? the difficult bit I did myself
<PasNox> any idea to set the content of my command in a export var ? i got again error :(
<RAOF> PasNox: You probably want to run it through 'sed s/^uid[ ]*//', or some such to strip out the leading 'uid' and spaces.
<sebner> norsetto: why scary. just why /me and /that
<PasNox> ok met try
<norsetto> sebner: you, because you need to enlarge your spectrum of work, that, because is the only one I have
<sebner> norsetto: ^^, you want to give me your only merge to me? *what a honour*, kk I'm taking it but annoying you if I need something ;)
<PasNox> RAOF: i got error trying executing this : mail=$(gpg --list-key $id | grep uid | sed s/^uid[ ]*//)
<geser> PasNox: try mail="$(...)"
<PasNox> geser, thanks it fix the space problem, now i need remove the uid and strip spaces
<PasNox> i'm trying the sed example of RAOF
<RAOF> PasNox: This is going to fail on gpg keys with multiple IDs.
<PasNox> RAOF: do u have exemple of public multiple gpg key list ?
<RAOF> Mine
<RAOF> Probably nearly every Ubuntu & Debian developer, actually :)
<PasNox> RAOF: can u paste somewhere so i can have an idea of multiple gpg key ?
<RAOF> You get one uid line per ID associated with the key.
<PasNox> ok
<PasNox> btw, the sed example u paste me some lines ago fails to run
<PasNox> it say unfinish sequence
<RAOF> Oh, you probably want to put it in quotes.
<RAOF> And you may want the -r flag.
<PasNox> i'm doing this
<PasNox> export DEBEMAIL="$(gpg --list-key $id | grep uid | sed s/^uid[ ]*//)"
<PasNox> if i remove sed part it's ok but i have uid at start
<PasNox> and i want not
<RAOF> Just stick "s/^uid[ ]*//" in quotes, like that.
<PasNox> ok
<PasNox> my god, it's working
<geser> PasNox: do you know if none of your team members has several ids on his key?
<PasNox> man really big thanks ;)
<PasNox> for now, i think noone got a gpg key ;)
<PasNox> but in case of, what i can try to only grab first line of multiple gpg key ?
<PasNox> i use --list-key does this will echo all associate fullname to this id ?
<geser> grep -m 1 ^uid
<PasNox> i don't understand differences between --list-keys and --list-key
<PasNox> thanks
<geser> PasNox: there is none
<PasNox> ah damn, why having multiple comand doing same ;)
<geser> PasNox: gpg needs only enough letters to make a command unique
<PasNox> ok
<PasNox> well now it's working
<PasNox> let test my script ;)
<geser> PasNox: see http://paste.ubuntu.com/16282/ for the output for my keys (2 keys with each 4 uids)
<PasNox> thanks
<PasNox> ok i see, thanks !
<PasNox> so the grep command u give me, will only get the first one available ?
<geser> -m = --max-count
<PasNox> ok
<PasNox> i'm not familiar with packagin, but once i create a source package, how another packager can create update package ? does he will need last available package source to update it ?
<sebner> norsetto: In 10 minutes I have a debdiff ready so you can review and upload it still today ^^
<geser> PasNox: yes
<PasNox> and how he obtain it ?
<geser> sebner: you give him only one minute to review and upload?
<geser> PasNox: apt-get source <pkgname> if it's in some apt repository
<norsetto> sebner: take your time, just do it properly
<sebner> norsetto: Of course I do ^^
<PasNox> ok great to know ;)
<sebner> geser: ^^, no just before he goes to bed
<geser> ah, because in 9 minutes is midnight and an new day stats
<norsetto> sebner: it would actually be nice to have the same source do two binary packages, a normal eggdrop and an eggdrop-ssl flavour
<sebner> norsetto: now you make me cry -.-
<norsetto> sebner: we only release in October, you still have time
<sebner> norsetto: personally I think we shouldn't increase the delta with debian :P
<norsetto> sebner: exactly, this way we reduce it
<sebner> norsetto: really? btw, so you don't want my debdiff now?
<norsetto> sebner: think about it
<sebner> norsetto: for me it seems to be the same amount of work
<PasNox> thanks for you help guyz
<PasNox> time to bed !
<PasNox> bye
<sebner> geser: midnight -.-
<sebner> norsetto: I think I know how to handle that in debian/control but how in debian/rules  so that the new package gehts ssl support?
<norsetto> sebner: I didn't check whats in the patch, but I would say you need to call configure twice, the second time with the added option to enable ssl and with the patch applied
<sebner> norsetto: buh you have to show me :P
<norsetto> sebner: why? whats the value in me telling you what to do?
<sebner> norsetto: not telling, guiding. and what do teachers in school do?? tell, yes :P
<norsetto> sebner: nope. the guidance you've got, if you have questions ask but the best part of the exercise is for you how to solve a problem on your own
<sebner> norsetto: I know I know ^^
<norsetto> g'night all
<sebner> gn8 norsetto
<RoAkSoAx> bye norsetto
<sebner> gn8 folks
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-31
<dupondje> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/49420291/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-armel.loop-aes-utils_2.16.2-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz => somebody has any clue ? :)
<dupondje> ../../../fdisk/fdisk.c:2142: error: unable to find a register to spill in class 'GENERAL_REGS'
<RAOF> That's generally some inline assembly being munted.
<RAOF> If there isn't some inline assembly involved then it's probably a compiler bug.
<dupondje> no assembly code in the function it seems ...
<dupondje> and it did build on debian armel ...
<RAOF> With the same gcc? :)
<dupondje> prolly not :P
<dupondje> gcc-4.4 4.4.4-3ubuntu3 vs gcc-4.4_4.4.3-3
<dupondje> gcc -std=gnu99 -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../../fdisk -I..  -include ../config.h -I../../../include -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/share/locale\"  -fsigned-char -Wall -g -O2 -MT fdisk.o -MD -MP -MF .deps/fdisk.Tpo -c -o fdisk.o ../../../fdisk/fdisk.c
<dupondje> gcc -std=gnu99 -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../../fdisk -I..  -include ../config.h -I../../../include -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/share/locale\"  -fsigned-char -Wall -g -Os -MT fdisk.o -MD -MP -MF .deps/fdisk.Tpo -c -o fdisk.o ../../../fdisk/fdisk.c
<dupondje> -O2 in debian
<dupondje> -Os in ubuntu
<dupondje> could that be the reason ?
<micahg> dupondje: we also have a different libc6
<dupondje> but its not really a bug in loop-aes then? but more in libc or gcc ?
<RAOF> Without the additional constraints of inline assembly, I think that any time the compiler is unable to find enough registers is a bug in the compiler.
<Rhonda> What does the tag canonical-losa-lp mean? Or are they arbitrary?
<lifeless> the universe is arbitrary
<Rhonda> lifeless: If that was meant to be a joking comment, I didn't get it. :)
<lifeless> what is your question about the tag
<Rhonda> It was added to a bug and I wonder what it means.
<Rhonda> The question about the tag is exactly what I wrote - what does it mean/imply. :)
<lifeless> it means that the canonical losa team have some interest in the bug
<Rhonda> What's the "losa" team?
<lifeless> launchpad/landscape operational system administrator
<lifeless> though they do U1 too, but the abbreviation has been kept
<Rhonda> It was added to the bug about that one isn't able to unsubscribe from individual bugs with implicit subscriptions on launchpad.
<lifeless> yes
<dholbach> good morning
<ricotz> hello, recently we had a packaging change of docky in result of the major upstream change, therefore the package python-docky got obsolete, so my question is what is the best way to do this transition? i added a "Replaces" and "Conflicts" for python-docky to the docky package. is this the proper way?
<RAOF> ricotz: This depends on precisely what happens.  Having python-docky Conflicts/replaces the docky package is unlikely to be the right option, unless python-docky provides the full docky experience now :)
<RAOF> What's the actual situation?
<RAOF> I'd guess that some files that used to be in the docky package are now being provided by the python-docky package?  In that case, Replaces: docky (<= $LAST_BROKEN_VERSION) is appropriate.  That tells dpkg that python-docky will replace some files in a docky package older than $LAST_BROKEN_VERSION
<ricotz> RAOF, this only affects the ppa, we splitted out the helpers to a new project which is compatible with awn
<ricotz> RAOF, the docky ppa package is python free now
<ricotz> the goal was to get python-docky removed when installing the new docky
<lifeless> probably want breaks
<RAOF> Ok.  Why?  Is there a packaging conflict, or is python-docky now simply obsolete?
<lifeless> not conflicts
<lifeless> RAOF: ^ ricotz:
<ricotz> RAOF, it is obsolete
<RAOF> If python-docky is simply obsolete, why not rely on apt-get/aptitude to do the right thing?
<RAOF> Few people are going to have manually installed python-docky, so when docky stops depending on it it'll fall under âunused packagesâ.
<ricotz> RAOF, this could leave python-docky installed
<lifeless> ricotz: set breaks:python-docky
<lifeless> ricotz: thats all you need
<ricotz> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~docky-core/docky/packaging/annotate/head:/ubuntu-lucid/control
<ricotz> lifeless, ok
<RAOF> python-docky will be automatically uninstalled once nothing depends on it.
<lifeless> never ever use conflicts unless a) the two packages cannot *unpack* on disk (see the debian packaging policy for details on what that means) or b) breaks won't work, and you understand how both work in detail to be able to make that assertion
<lifeless> RAOF: depends on policy
<RAOF> lifeless: Is there any particular reason to use breaks, though?  One package doesn't actually break or conflict with the other.
<lifeless> ricotz: but let me also say, if python-docky won't cause *harm*, don't interfere.
<lifeless> RAOF: ^ :P
<ricotz> lifeless, it doesnt do harm, but could lead to problem when using the included python interface which isnt working anymore after docky is updated
<AnAnt> Hello, I think I was accepted as MOTU last week, but I still didn't get an email about it
<lifeless> ricotz: so, installing the new docky breaks python-docky ?
<AnAnt> how much time does it normally take ?
<ricotz> lifeless, yes, the included dbus interface definitions are not valid anymore
<lifeless> then breaks: is absolutely the right thing to do
<lifeless> RAOF: ^
<ricotz> lifeless, ok
<dupondje> 5 sync requests open :p
<dupondje> hÃ©hÃ© :)
<AnAnt> geser: ^
<dupondje> https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html => when is this list refreshed ?
<geser> AnAnt: usually the chair processes the outcome of the meetings short after the meeting. fixing it now.
<AnAnt> geser: thanks
<geser> AnAnt: done
<AnAnt> so the question is, what can I do as a MOTU (besides continuing what I've been doing before) ?
<AnAnt> any tools I should know about ?
<geser> AnAnt: the main difference now is that you don't need a sponsor anymore and can sponsor others
<AnAnt> geser: that's on REVU, right ?
<AnAnt> geser: how about if I do a merge or sync
<geser> AnAnt: not only, but also merges and syncs
<AnAnt> geser: how do I get it actually done ?
<AnAnt> how do I actually do the merge or sync now, is just setting the bug status (of my merge/sync request) to confirmed enough ?
<AnAnt> or I should do an eupload somewhere ? for example in Debian, after becomming a DM, I would upload to ftp.upload.debian.org instead of mentors
<geser> sync -> subscribe ubuntu-archive directly, merges -> upload directly (you don't even need to file a bug for it)
<AnAnt> ah, upload.ubuntu.com ?
<geser> yes
<AnAnt> ok, I  just found it now /etc/dput.cf
<AnAnt> ok, thanks
<dupondje> you can use requestsync also if u have upload rights right ?
<geser> yes
<AnAnt> oh, yes, just drop the -s
<geser> instead of the sponsoring team it subscribes ubuntu-archive instead
<dupondje> got some syncs open to be ack'ed if you need some practice ;)
<AnAnt> ok, bye
<Laney> ricotz: if you want to do a stable release update, you need to get it fixed in the development release first
<Laney> ...so please get the new docky version updated there
<Laney> ...and for that please get it updated in Debian
<Laney> ...and for that please come to #debian-cli @ oftc
<Laney> that is all!
 * Laney out
<dupondje> http://dupondje.be/fxload.debdiff => this looks like a good debdiff ?
<dupondje> for merge of https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fxload
<slytherin> dupondje: looks fine except you should give a proper name to the patch instead of debian-changes-0.0.20081013-1ubuntu1
<dupondje> slytherin: the name is automatictly given when builded ... :s
<slytherin> dupondje: You can rename it can't you?
<dupondje> yepp ! :)
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fxload/+bug/587824
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 587824 in fxload (Ubuntu) "Please merge fxload 0.0.20081013-1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,New]
<dupondje> feel free to comment :)
<dupondje> gtg now :)
 * DktrKranz cheers quadrispro as newly appointed DD, please give him something to sponsor :)
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fxload/+bug/587824 => this looks good ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 587824 in fxload (Ubuntu) "Please merge fxload 0.0.20081013-1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,New]
<jetienne> q. native question: i got a source package with .dsc, .tgz, .source_build, .source_changes... how can i build it ?
<dupondje> pbuilder --build file.dsc
<jetienne> dupondje: anything easier ? apparently pbuilder need a lot of config to work
<dupondje> alot of config ?
<dupondje> should be working out of the box :)
<jetienne>  /var/cache/pbuilder <- apparently this dir need to be created
<jetienne> it is complaining about other things too
<ricotz> Laney, ping
<jetienne> dupondje: ok apparently i can "dpkg-source -x file.dsc" and then "debuild -b"
<sommer> morning
<ricotz> sebner, can you take care of this? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/docky/+bug/574003
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 574003 in docky (Ubuntu Lucid) "Clock context menu not indicating state of options" [Medium,Triaged]
<sebner> ricotz: still needs a SRU ack? /me investigating
<ricotz> sebner, i just asked RAOF
<sebner> ricotz: oh, did he upload?
<ricotz> sebner, he is updating it in debian now
<sebner> ricotz: ah ^^
<sebner> ricotz: ok, I'm going to upload it to lucid-proposed now
<ricotz> sebner, ok
<arand> If I take someone elses debian packaging and update it slightly, should I add "And updated by $ME" after "This package was debianized by.." ? Or just ignore it? (I'm taking a debianization from getdeb and using it for my PPA)
<arand> (Ignore, meaning just put info in changelog)
<ScottK> ara: Just ignore it and put the info in the changelog
<ScottK> oops.
<ScottK> arand: ^^^
<ara> ScottK, ;-)
<arand> ScottK: Ok, cheers
<ripps> Can someone here help me figure out why my mplayer-build package won't build in maverick? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/49425944/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.mplayer-build_3:1.0~rc3%2Bgit20100531.c690323-0ubuntu1~ripps1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ripps> It seems to fail at override_dh_auto_build
<ogra> ripps, ERROR: libxvid not found
<jetienne> i think i will reach buildability today! :)
<ripps> ogra: oh, I think I figured it out, I forgot to carry over some custom package dependencies in my drobotik configs
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: : I've answered, check bug 587627
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 587627 in starplot (Ubuntu) "Sync starplot 0.95.5-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/587627
<dupondje> 773 jobs (three days)
<dupondje> omg :)
<geser> dupondje: sparc is constantly busy for 3 days since the auto-sync started
<ScottK> And that's with a substantial fraction of the packages failing to build.
<ScottK> If everything built it would be a lot more behind.
<ricotz> ScottK, hello, do you mind approving an upload to lucid-proposed?
<ScottK> ricotz: Did ubuntu-sru approve it already?
<sebner> ScottK: pitti did
<ricotz> ScottK, yes, pitti dod
<ricotz> did
<ScottK> OK.  What bug?
<sebner> ricotz: you know how to bypass the queue, hmm? ^^
<ricotz> ScottK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/docky/+bug/574003
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 574003 in docky (Ubuntu Lucid) "Clock context menu not indicating state of options" [Medium,Triaged]
<ricotz> sebner, i am waiting for a long time for this
<sebner> ricotz: sure
<ScottK> ricotz and sebner: Done.
<ricotz> ScottK, thank you!
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<sebner> ScottK: cool, thx. mind approving another one (mine)?
<ScottK> sebner: As long as it's ubuntu-sru approve, no problem.  What bug?
<sebner> ScottK: pitti told me to upload it anyways if it's importat (I consider startup crash important) and you (archive) will approve anyways
<ScottK> sebner: It needs an ubuntu-sru ack.  I'm not on ubuntu-sru, so I can't do that.  My advice is pester jdong.
<sebner> ScottK: right, never could catch him yet!
<sebner> jdong: ^
<ari-tczew> please sponsor this bug 368855
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368855 in cherrypy3 (Ubuntu Jaunty) "formatwarning() definition from cherrypy3 incompatible with Python 2.6" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368855
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Is that fix in Debian too?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I don't know, I just saw that patch has got ACK for SRU and waiting in queue to sponsor
<ScottK> I see.
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> ari-tczew: What release are you fixing this for?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I don't fix it. kklimonda is author of patch. I just poke sponsors there. The release is jaunty.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: It's not uploaded yet, so nothing for me to accept.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I didn't ask you for accept. I'm looking for sponsor only.
<ScottK> Oh, I misunderstood.  That I don't have time for.  Sorry.
<ari-tczew> no problem
<fred_and_me> evning guys
<ari-tczew> hello
<fred_and_me> i was wandering if someone could shed some light on a packaging related problem i'm having
<fred_and_me> i'm trying to build myself a small build service using rebuildd and reprepro
<fred_and_me> the buildd gets the source file from the reprepro, builds it and puts the binarys into the repo
<fred_and_me> except it rejects the pbuilder build source files because it doesn't have the same checksums than the source from the repo
<fred_and_me> but when i inspect the contents of the two packages, the content is identical
<fred_and_me> why does that happeÃ
<fred_and_me> ?
<jdong> sebner: looks like you've gotten your ACK?
 * jdong has been settling down in California for his summer job
<ScottK> fred_and_me: That's a bit off topic here.  You might try #ubuntu-packaging.
<fred_and_me> thanks ScottK, i will
<sebner> jdong: hmm, no?
<jdong> sebner: bug number?
<jdong> must've misaligned my scrollback then
<sebner> jdong: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/themonospot/+bug/533747
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 533747 in themonospot (Ubuntu) "themonospot file missing" [Undecided,New]
<jdong> oh
<ari-tczew> jdong: ping on private message
<jdong> ari-tczew: can you please retransmit? My bouncer is a bit glitchy with privmsg handling
<jdong> sebner: you're okay now :)
<sebner> jdong: take my thanks! :)
<sebner> ScottK: would you mind? =)
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> sebner: Is it fixed in Maverick already?
<sebner> ScottK: nope, it the fix I intend to do a upload in Debian
<sebner> *it = if
<sebner> *fix works
<sebner> -.-
<ScottK> If we're at the "if it works" stage, it's really not ready for SRU.
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fxload/+bug/587824 => does this merge look nice ? :)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 587824 in fxload (Ubuntu) "Please merge fxload 0.0.20081013-1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,New]
<ScottK> Not sure if I understood your substitutions correctly.
<dupondje> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aiccu/+bug/544910 => this is an SRU also imo :) could you give it a shot ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 544910 in aiccu (Debian) "Upgrade to 10.04 beta1 blocked by aiccu" [Unknown,Fix committed]
<ScottK> dupondje: Is it already uploaded and approved by ubuntu-sru?
<sebner> ScottK: My can't reproduce the error but others have reported to be fixed
<ScottK> sebner: Done.
<ScottK> OK.
<sebner> ScottK: th
<sebner> x
<ScottK> You're welcome.
 * sebner shouldn't write anything while using the mobile phone at the same time -.-
<dupondje> ScottK: no, how do I get it approved ? :D
<ScottK> dupondje: Subscribe ubuntu-sru and someone on the team will review it.
<arand> dupondje: Well, subscribe ubuntu-sru, and wait.
<dupondje> anyway, change got into debian .. isn't it better to wait for sync and then sru ?
<arand> Well, it's often the case that a sru won't happen if the change isn't in ubuntu+1 yet, so yea.
<dupondje> well the change is already in ubuntu+1, but the changed debian package not
<micahg> JontheEchidna: what do you think about renaming/add dummy package kmozillahelper to firefox-kde-support so that it's easier to find
<JontheEchidna> debfx: ^?
<JontheEchidna> I don't know if upstream plans to stick with just providing Firefox integration, but debfx might know more
<JontheEchidna> a dummy package or provides: field entry couldn't hurt, at any rate
<micahg> JontheEchidna: is it maintained upstream or in Ubuntu?
<debfx> micahg: that's what I suggested in bug #559154
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 559154 in firefox (Ubuntu) "KDE users installing Firefox from archive don't know about kmozillahelper" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/559154
<JontheEchidna> micahg: openSUSE hosts/maintains the code in gitorious
<micahg> debfx: I know, I was asking if we're going to do it :)
<debfx> oh, +1 from me obviously :D
<ScottK> Does firefox suggest kmozillahelper?
<micahg> ScottK: ye
<micahg> s
<ScottK> Then I think the question is answered.
<ScottK> If users don't know about it, it's a package manager issue.
<micahg> ScottK: how many regular users look at suggests?
<ScottK> micahg: Are they presented by the package management software to them?
<ScottK> I don't think changing the name will help.
<JontheEchidna> Is there any way to recommend firefox-gnome-support || firefox-kde-support and have apt be smart enough to choose the one that would install less new stuff?
<ScottK> No.
<JontheEchidna> :(
<micahg> ScottK: it'll show up in a search for firefox
<ScottK> I see.
<ScottK> That's a good point.
<micahg> ScottK: it also makes it more obvious what it does
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: Maybe we should directly seed kmozillahelper in kubuntu-common and then if a Kubuntu users installs Firefox, they already have the addon?
<JontheEchidna> ScottK: that would work, but we'd have to remove kmozillahelper's dependency on firefox
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: Agreed.
<JontheEchidna> not a big deal imo, but would have to be done
<ScottK> It's a bit of a hack, but it should work.
<JontheEchidna> do we want to care about the name if we go this route?
<micahg> JontheEchidna: I don't think so
<debfx> renaming kmozillahelper would also make the name consistent with firefox-gnome-support
<micahg> JontheEchidna: actually, wait, maybe we would
<micahg> JontheEchidna: if users only install kde w/out kubuntu, they still wouldn't find it
<JontheEchidna> good point
<ScottK> micahg: That's true, but I'm not sure we care that much.
<JontheEchidna> The question is: "do we want to carry a transitional package for 2 years for this?"
<micahg> JontheEchidna: well, I think it would just be a permanent dummy package unless upstream renames
<dupondje> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/m/mplayer/current/changelog => a debian changelog that contains ubuntu changelog items ?!
<micahg> JontheEchidna: I could also throw the dummy package in firefox in theory
<JontheEchidna> well, it's not too big of a deal to have a dummy package around
<JontheEchidna> So the plan is:
<JontheEchidna> - Change kmozillahelper's name to firefox-support-kde
<JontheEchidna> -Provide a dummy package for kmozillahelper that depends on firefox-support-kde
<JontheEchidna> - Remove firefox-kde-support's dependency on firefox
<JontheEchidna> - Seed firefox-kde-support in kubuntu-common
<JontheEchidna> sound good?
<micahg> JontheEchidna: the thing I'm wondering is about actually changing the name since upstream calls it something diferent
<JontheEchidna> So, kmozillahelper could stay the main package, but firefox-kde-support be the dummy?
<micahg> JontheEchidna: that's what I was thinking
<JontheEchidna> sounds fine to me
<debfx> micahg: opensuse calls the package mozilla-kde4-integration
<micahg> JontheEchidna: that way we're consistent with upstream and ourselves
<micahg> debfx: oh, in that case, we can just change our name ;)
<debfx> I'd say the source package should be called kmozillahelper and the binary firefox-support-kde
<micahg> debfx: that's fine too
<debfx> JontheEchidna: upstream tarballs are available from https://build.opensuse.org/package/files?package=mozilla-kde4-integration&project=mozilla%3AFactory
<debfx> I should have documented that though at that time build.opensuse.org required a login
<JontheEchidna> debfx: good to know
<dupondje> guys, a debian changelog that contains ubuntu changes? is that anything special ?
<debfx> actually I could write a watch file
<JontheEchidna> dupondje: not common, but not unheard of
<dupondje> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/m/mplayer/current/changelog :p
<JontheEchidna> they must've done a merge with us
<dupondje> but seems not everything is included :s
<debfx> micahg, JontheEchidna: so are we going to do it like that?
<micahg> debfx: sounds good to me
<debfx> so firefox needs to change the suggests and kubuntu-firefox-install doesn't need to install kmozillahelper anymore
<micahg> debfx: open a task/bug or just ping me when you're ready for firefox to change
<ari-tczew> micahg: how are you doing?
<micahg> ari-tczew: k, trying to get a lot of backports done :)
<ari-tczew> micahg: cool, good luck !
<ari-tczew> bdrung: hello, did you prepare script for sponsoring fakesyncs?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: half. ack-sync & syncpackage will gain this feature. i was disrupted by a failing internet connection.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: i will finish it soon
<ari-tczew> bdrung: aha, ttx has sponsored my bzr diffs, but don't worry, I'll always find a fakesync, just ask me ;)
<bdrung> ari-tczew: geronimo-jpa-3.0-spec is still there as testcase?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: of course, you can use it for testing
<bdrung> ari-tczew: because i saw that ttx sponsored most of bug 512430
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 512430 in geronimo-jta-1.0.1b-spec (Ubuntu) "Fake sync geronimo packages (main) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512430
<ari-tczew> bdrung: yes I know, but I didn't please him
<ari-tczew> what sposor prefer to - pack new upstream release and send to bzr or upload .diff.gz .dsc and orig. files?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: if you are in doubt do both ;) it depends probably on the sponsor
<bdrung> ari-tczew: is it possible to update the package in debian first and sync/merge it?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: I've packed new upstream release (package doesn't exist in Debian) and I switched source format to 3.0 - I don't know whether bzr does like change source format
<bdrung> ari-tczew: IIRC it should work
<ari-tczew> bdrung: so I'll upload it tommorow to bzr.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: is someone trying to bring this package to debian?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: I know nothing about this
<bdrung> ari-tczew: are you interested in maintaining it?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: not sure, this package is: firmware-addon-dell
<ari-tczew> bdrung: why you ask?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: just my usual questions. i like to see all packages in debian and then synced to ubuntu (or merged if really required)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: are you satisfied if you see in e-mail inbox a lot of sync requests?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: yes (compared to seeing many new upstream packages or merge requests)
<bdrung> ari-tczew: i begin with sponsoring sync requests and then doing the other stuff
<ari-tczew> bdrung: aha, fine
<bdrung> tumbleweed: ping
<tumbleweed> bdrung: pong
<bdrung> tumbleweed: do you still my endorsement or do you finished the motu application?
<arand> rhythmbox patches are 01-05, 80, 82, 90-96. What number should my new patch be?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: there wasn't time last week, I'm up again next week
<micahg> arand: depends where it needs to be applied
<tumbleweed> yes, I'd appreciate an endorsement
<bdrung> k, will put it on my TODO
<tumbleweed> bdrung: thanks
<micahg> bdrung: have you sponsored enough of my stuff to give me an endorsement for mozilla package set dev?
<bdrung> micahg: gimme a list of bugs
<arand> micahg: which I don't really know, it's a git commit for python initialization problems.
<micahg> bdrung: k, I guess I'll have to do that later :)
<arand> micahg: I guess 07, incorrect?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: in your mail you listed four bugs. are there more nows
<bdrung> s/nows/now?
<tumbleweed> hmm, let me see
<lfaraone> bdrung: by the way, I am in ~ubuntu-dev as of a few weeks ago.
<bdrung> lfaraone: context?
<lfaraone> bdrung: in re to <1275236527.1990.38.camel@deep-thought>
<bdrung> <1275236527.1990.38.camel@deep-thought>?
<lfaraone> bdrung: the reason I didn't push them directly into ~ubuntu-dev/+junk/ack-sync was because I wasn't sure whether I should commit directly.
<lfaraone> bdrung: the messageID of your email on "Re: Updates / features for ack-sync".
<simar> sudo echo 3 | tee -a /sys/class/backlight/nvidia_backlight/brightness  can anyone please tell me the meaning of this statement including |(or) i know what are echo ..
<simar> plz help
<bdrung> lfaraone: aha, the ack-sync script. your work on it is appreciate. you are allowed to commit directly. ;)
<lfaraone> bdrung: mk, thx.
<bdrung> mk?
<Laney> simar: this isn't the channel for support, please try #ubuntu
<tumbleweed> bdrung: #585329, #584125, #585014, #583899, #583999, #583106, #581511, #562272, #527982 (and a few more awaiting review, if you are keen :P )
<tumbleweed> whoops, two of those arne't yours
<tumbleweed> oh they are, nm
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-01
<bdrung> tumbleweed: you are very involved in Debian. how is your relation to Ubuntu?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: what are your plans as MOTU besides caring about your (http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=stefano@rivera.za.net) packages?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I use Ubuntu and Debian, and work to fix things in both of them
<bdrung> tumbleweed: did you other things besides sync and merges?
<tumbleweed> yes, I can't say if I'll be a busy MOTU forever
<tumbleweed> but I've been enjoying what I've been doing, and don't intend to just stop
<tumbleweed> no, I haven't done much else. I've got my eyes on my first SRU, but the fix needs to get into maverick first
<bdrung> tumbleweed: do you like to work on the sponsors queue once you are motu?
<bdrung> +1 for "Ubuntu developers seem to have a hard time pushing patches upstream (either to Debian or the upstream developers). Yes, syncing and merging takes a lot longer when you do this, but it's the right thing to do and should save time in the long run. I intend to (and have begun) improve on this. "
<tumbleweed> yes, many ubuntu patches are very quick and dirty. It takes time to do a better job :/
<tumbleweed> as to sponsors queue, I certainly intend to have a shot at it. It's hard to know until one gets there...
<lfaraone> bdrung: sync-package is included in ubuntu-dev-tools despite not being shipped. it's just a good idea to have them all in one place, even if they are "unsupported", I think.
<lfaraone> wgrant: ^^
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes, that's not easy. the beginners have time for it, but not the knowledge and rights to do it. when they become MOTU, they have other things to do than sponsoring.
<bdrung> lfaraone: i don't think that this makes sense. if not installed, you still have to pull a bzr branch.
<lfaraone> bdrung: yes, but it's all maintained in one tree.
<bdrung> wgrant: your opinion please
<tumbleweed> bdrung: that's something about MOTU. It forces you to learn everything that you thought you could avoid learning :)
<bdrung> :)
<wgrant> bdrung, lfaraone: I think keeping it in the u-d-t branch is an OK idea.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: MOTU is just about typing the right commands :)
<wgrant> It's not optimal, but it's probably better than keeping it elsewhere.
<lfaraone> bdrung: and not blowing things up.
<bdrung> lfaraone: blowing things up?
<tumbleweed> lfaraone: lol
<lfaraone> bdrung: re the meaning of MOTU, it's about using the right commands and not causing things to break :P
<bdrung> lfaraone: ah, ok. having two discussions at once in one channel can confuse (me).
<bdrung> lfaraone: [MOTU] ...and to dominate the world. *muhahaha*
<lfaraone> wgrant, bdrung, ideally, we'll get the "sync this" button and we can remove most of the functionality from ack-sru and replace it with launchpad API calls. But I agree that it will still be useful to have this script there for potential shipping in the package later. We're more likely to get code review, and encourage people to work on it.
<lfaraone> *button in the launchpad UI
<wgrant> lfaraone: Yes, we're thinking about that... but it's going to be a community effort.
<lfaraone> wgrant: what work needs to be done?
<wgrant> lfaraone: A few things like making copies go through the normal NEW/UNAPPROVED queues, we need to be able to send announcement emails without having a .changes files, that sort of thing.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: endorsement given.
<tumbleweed> bdrung: thank you
<bdrung> tumbleweed: be happy that i was faster than with my motu interview ;)
<tumbleweed> heh
<tumbleweed> it's 1:30am and I didn't sleep last night. I should get to bed
<lfaraone> bdrung: re ack-sru, shall I do the merge, then?
<bdrung> lfaraone: i have local changes. please let me commit them first
<lfaraone> bdrung: sure.
<cpscotti> Hey, little question about SRUs: when the fix has already been uploaded to -proposed and all (just awaiting verifications), does one needs to do anything at all? Or I just have to wait paciently for the sru team?
<cpscotti> (bug 480772 by the way.. )
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 480772 in harpia (Ubuntu Lucid) "OpenCV 2 incompatibilities" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/480772
<micahg> cpscotti: if they're subscribed, wait a few days, if it's urgent, you can try pinging someone
<cpscotti> ahh ok.. it's not urgent.. so its ok
<cpscotti> micahg:  thanks!
<micahg> cpscotti: also, it's a holiday weekend in the US and UK :)
<poolie> ScottK, hi
<ScottK> poolie: Hello.
<poolie> can we have a talk about dkim, maybe in #launchpad-dev, to avoid roundtrips?
<ScottK> Sure.
<CyberCod> when a package is broken in universe, and the email address for the maintainer reads as ubuntu-motu@lists.ubntu.com (but that just gets delivery failure)  then who do I tell about it?
<micahg> CyberCod: you can file a bug
<micahg> CyberCod: ubuntu-bug packagename
<CyberCod> yeah, I'm in the process of that now
<CyberCod> thanks
<micahg> CyberCod: if a few days go by w/out any feedback, feel free to hop in #ubuntu-bugs and ask someone to take a look
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> ScottK: Grats on becoming DD, btw.! :)
<rodrigo_> hi
<jariq> I've just realised that binary packages in Ubuntu are not signed. Is this true?
<jpds> jariq: How do you mean, not signed?
<jariq> jpds: digitaly signed with gpg.. so one can verify integrity and origin of package
<jpds> jariq: The Release's files are signed.
<jpds> eg, http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/
<jariq> jpds: exactly.. so it is possible to verify integrity of package when downloading from mirror.. but I cannot verify integrity and origin of package downloaded and stored on disc..
<jariq> because package itself does not contain any signature
<geser> jariq: the debs itself aren't signed (in Debian neither too)
<jpds> jariq: You can check the chain of checksums.
<geser> jariq: the Packages files contain crypto hashes (md5,sha1,sha256) of the deb, the Release file has crypto hashes of the Packages files, and the Release file is gpg-signed
<jariq> geser: but this files are stored only on mirror... so there is no way to verify single package in offline mode?
<geser> jariq: they are also in /var/lib/apt/lists (else apt wouldn't know which packages are available and their dependencies)
<Laney> apt does this verification for you when it downloads the package
<geser> but this only works for packages that are still published, you can't revalidate old package versions
<dupondje> dholbach: thx for ack'ing ;)
<dholbach> dupondje: de rien
<BlackZ> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hi BlackZ
<jariq> I can see the pros of signing just the Release files but this way offline systems without access to mirror cannot verify origin of packages :(
<dupondje> dholbach: My name looks french, but i'm dutch speaking :)
<dholbach> dupondje: ahhhh ok... alstublieft :)
<piju> hello all
 * geser starts to hate haskell packages
<geser> Laney: do you have a list in which order the haskell packages need to get rebuild to keep them installable on all architectures?
<Laney> I have a graph
<Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/haskell-installability/
<Laney> geser: what's the problem?
<jpds> Laney: What happened to ia64?
<Laney> jpds: We removed haskell there for lucid as ghc is unbuildable
<geser> I was looking at a FTBFS on AMD64 (twidge) and saw that one build-dep can't get installed because of those hashes(?) in the dependencies
<Laney> yes, abi hashes
<geser> so I uploaded as haskell-hsh rebuild to fix the dependencies
<geser> just to get mailed by the buildds that the dependencies on the other arch (i386, armel, etc) are even more broken
<Laney> yep
<Laney> I usually don't look at it until later in the cycle
<Laney> until someone pokes me that they want xmonad to work
<soren> If anyone here is better at automake than I, I'd really appreciate a bit of assistance. I'm calling AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([-Wall]) in configure.ac, but -Wall never gets passed to gcc. The way I read the docs, this should just happen without any further glue. What might be the problem?
<soren> forget it.
<soren> I'm an idiot.
<soren> Really.
<tamrat> quick question: it is not needed to open a sync request for new packages in debian that are not present in ubuntu, right?
<BlackZ> when I do a merge should I do the debdiff between the old ubuntu modified package and the new one modified, right?
<geser> tamrat: right, they should get synced any time before DebianImportFreeze. if you notice after DIF that it still didn't get synced file a sync request
<geser> BlackZ: between "new" Debian and "merged" Ubuntu
<tamrat> geser: ok cool
<BlackZ> geser: I'd be happy if you can sponsor it: bug #502601
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 502601 in steam (Ubuntu) "Merge steam 2.2.31-6 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/502601
<geser> BlackZ: don't forget to run "update-maintainer" (or do it by hand) and put the old Ubuntu changelog entries into the correct place (keep the sorting of the version)
<BlackZ> geser: err
<BlackZ> doing now
<BlackZ> geser: done, check now
<geser> BlackZ: looks good, but we usually don't touch Standards-Version. But no need to redo the debdiff for it (I will change it back during sponsoring).
<BlackZ> geser: OK, thanks
<Rhonda> ajmitch: Around? May I bug you about bug 528957 for a moment?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528957 in libsdl1.2 (Ubuntu Lucid) "mouse button clicks not detected in windowed mode" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528957
<jariq> Could anyone please suggest package that uses CMake I could use as an example ?
<Rhonda> Would "sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ajmitch" add it with "lucid" only for people on lucid, or would that pull in everything from there?
<JontheEchidna> jariq: Do you want one to research how to package a cmake app, or how to use cmake in general?
<geser> Rhonda: it should only create an entry for lucid (you can check in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/)
<jariq> JontheEchidna: how to package a cmake app
<Rhonda> hmm
<Rhonda> add-apt-repository seems to depend on networking and especially keyserver being accessible.  %-/
<geser> it also fetches the PPA signing key
<JontheEchidna> jariq: debhelper has built-in cmake support, so as long as the packaging doesn't need to be too complicated you can just do the simple "dh $@" debian/rules file, I'm fairly sure
<JontheEchidna> like so: http://pastebin.com/gLbT5t3q
<Rhonda> geser: Right, it times out but the sources.list.d file is there. Thanks. :)
<jariq> JontheEchidna: more complex example would be great
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: you marked bug #587706 as wishlist. It's a pretty major issue for everyone in South Africa, I'd triage it a little higher
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 587706 in openoffice.org-dictionaries (Ubuntu) "Please merge openoffice.org-dictionaries 1:3.2.0~rc2-5 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/587706
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: generally the merge requests are with the "Wishlist" importance
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: I suppose so. But I only solved it with a merge because I got the DD to sort it out first
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: also, "This bug affects 1 person", I don't see many users with this problem, please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance
<BlackZ> all merges are "important"
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: I am aware of that. Unfortunatly we don't have enough able hands in ZA who care. Everyone switched to UK dictionaries years ago
<BlackZ> maybe we can set it with the "medium" or "high" importance in debian/changelog but I can't change the bug's importance
<tumbleweed> (because of this issue)
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: don't worry
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: for further information ask in #ubuntu-bugs
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: as a non-bug-control member, I've never considered importance on merge requests. They've only ever been set my the uploader.
<tumbleweed> I just brought this up because the equivilent bug in Debian was grave
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: assuming it's, we have a policy for our bugs
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: yes, nm
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: however I will try to help you with the merge
<BlackZ> I have bookmarked it
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: thanks
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: but as I can see it's in the sponsor queue, so just wait
<BlackZ> (with the debdiff)
<fibi> hi
<fibi> i have a quick question
<fibi> what is the prefered way when packaging python packages: python-support or python-central
<tumbleweed> fibi: python-support
<tumbleweed> fibi: #debian-python on OFTC for help there
<BlackZ> fibi: it depends, I'd use python-support in Build-Depends-Indep
<BlackZ> (generally)
<fibi> okay, thanks
<ScottK> Rhonda: Thanks.
<\sh> bah...now I know more about initramfs as I really wanted to know
 * imbrandon yawns
<blue_anna> does the powerpc64-smp kernel actually run in 64bit mode?
<blue_anna> aye, now I know
<DeeJay1> hi, question: is there some script to compare debian revisions? I mean to do sth like "compare 0.6.1 0.6.0+gitxxxx" (of course a bit more complicated)
<geser> DeeJay1: dpkg --compare-versions 0.6.1 \< 0.6.0+gitxxxx && echo smaller || echo larger or equal
<DeeJay1> ha, too many switches to dpkg ;)
<micahg> geser: do I need to have my wiki page done to be on the agenda for DMB or just done by the meeting?
<geser> micahg: preferable mostly done when you apply to give anyone (including DMB) a chance to look at it before the meeting. of course, you can add comments, endorsements, etc. to your wiki page even after you applied. the idea is to have all the endorsements and comments on your wiki page when you apply so your application doesn't get blocked on your sponsors finding time to add their endorsements (and as
<geser>  everyone else sponsors tend to also get busy)
<micahg> geser: k, I'll try to get that up in the next couple days then, thanks
<ari-tczew> geser: the package which you've sponsored is FTBFS! https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/steam/2.2.31-6ubuntu1/+build/1767467
<blueyed> Is there a way to run .desktop files? I've heard about run-desktop in some security related posts, but that was meant as a prototype apparently only. In particular, I want to run *.desktop from ~/.config/autostart for the awesome window manager.
<geser> ari-tczew: I know :( I test-built it on AMD64 where the build succeeded.
<ari-tczew> heh
<geser> I have no idea where amd64 and armel are different to i386 and powerpc which makes it build or fail
<BlackZ> geser: for steam?
<geser> yes
<BlackZ> geser: I have tried to add the flag -wno-stack-protector
<BlackZ> now uploading on my PPA
<geser> this option should only be used rarely as it disables the stack protection which is a good idea
<geser> it should only be used for packages that don't link to libc (e.g. bootloaders)
<geser> and the ld call before that error even mentions -lc
<BlackZ> hmm
<geser> kees: as you are familiar with the stack protection, do you have an idea why this linking fails? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/49499611/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.steam_2.2.31-6ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<kees> ges	looking
<BlackZ> kees: could the flag -wno-stack-protector be a solution?
<geser> kees: the build fails with "undefined reference to `__stack_chk_fail_local'
<kees> wwell, the issue is that it doesn't seem to be linking against libc correctly
<geser> kees: only on i386 and powerpc? as the packages builds on amd64 and armel
<kees> normally that error comes from things that are built without libc and don't specify no-stdlib
<kees> that's even stranger
<geser> the ld call contains even -lc
<geser> which should make it link to libc
<kees> yeah, i saw that. really weird. what happens if it drops the -lc ?
<kees> i can dig into it in a few hours. otherwise we can follow the CompilerDefaults wiki
<geser> kees: no hurry, I just wanted to ask if you perhaps had an idea why it fails before the stack protection gets disabled for this package
<kees> geser: if it does get disabled, please add it to CompilerDefaults and open a bug
<geser> sure
<kees> thx :)
<geser> BlackZ: do you have a maverick i386 pbuilder where you can test-build it easily? I've only an amd64 one ready.
<BlackZ> geser: I have amd64 too
<BlackZ> :(
<geser> http://erl1.wordpress.com/2009/11/16/reinstallingmaking-ns-2-on-ubuntu-9-10/ mentions a similar problem and a solution (uses gcc -shared instead of ld -shared for linking) but I can't test it easily as it builds on amd64
<arand> geser: I've got a kvm i686 with pbuilder up here, would it be of any help?
<geser> sure, once I have something to test (but I'm currently lacking a real idea as this is a little above my knowledge)
<dupondje> somebody knows if there is a way to build packages remotely ?
<dupondje> want to build maverick packages on my remote debian system :)
<dupondje> want to abuse the quad core for it :D
<micahg> dupondje: pbuilder?
<dupondje> but is there some easy way ? like pbuilder interacts remotely ?
<dupondje> or really need to ssh and do pbuilder remote ?
<micahg> dupondje: ssh?
<pochu> dupondje: you can set up a build farm. DktrKranz wrote something for that, can't remember its name though
<DktrKranz> dupondje, pochu: something like that is called debomatic
<pochu> that's it!
<pochu> hi DktrKranz :)
<DktrKranz> hola pochu :)
<dupondje> thx :D
<sebner> pochu: debobreaking?
<arand> geser: Seems like if you (blindly, as per the blog) replace "ld -E -shared" with "gcc -shared" in the configure(.ac) files, it at least build fine.
<arand> geser: Did you have a bug for the failed build?
<arand> geser: FYI: reported bug #588519 with a working fix (not sure if it's a *sane* fix though)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588519 in steam (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] on i368 with "xslt.c:(.text+0x1bb4): undefined reference to `__stack_chk_fail_local'"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588519
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-02
<rlo> ok
<fabrice_sp> Hi. I have to do a SRU to rebuild a package in Lucid that has no revision for ubuntu yet. I was going to use build0.1 as version extension, but the security wiki page recommends using ubuntu1. My concern is that this package may not be automatically synced if I use ubuntu1, whereas no changes has been done in Ubuntu. Any opinion?
<lifeless> uhm
<lifeless> an SRU isn't the right tool for a simple rebuild
<maco> though i think build is the right syntax
<lifeless> right
<fabrice_sp> if a SRU is not the right tool, how should I request a rebuild of a package in Lucid? I have to bump the version so that people get the latest rebult package, so it has to go throught the -proposed queue. Or am I wrong?
<lifeless> I'd check with the sru team
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> fyi, it's for bug 571461
<lifeless> I'm pretty sure that rebuilds haven't been considered in the SRU process
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571461 in gle-graphics (Ubuntu) "qgle fails due to undefined symbol _ZN9QHashData13detach_helperEPFvPNS_4NodeEPvEPFvS1_Ei" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/571461
<fabrice_sp> and I can confirm that a rebuild fixes it
<fabrice_sp> jdong, any opinion on that ?
<jdong> *looks up*
<jdong> lifeless / fabrice_sp: We've done rebuilds as a part of the SRU process before.
<jdong> I don't have any numbers off the top of my head.
<lifeless> jdong: how are they named
<fabrice_sp> ok. and about the version scheme? ubuntu0.1 or build0.1?
<jdong> I prefer standard SRU X.Y versions
<fabrice_sp> so ubuntu0.1. ok
<jdong> but just remark that it's a no source change rebuild to pick up _____
<fabrice_sp> yeah: this is what I've put in my changelog entry
 * jdong just commented
<fabrice_sp> will change the version number, and I'll upload it
<fabrice_sp> ohh: cool
<fabrice_sp> thanks!
<jdong> sure thing!
<jdong> and I'll take this chance to catch up on the rest of the SRU queue too :)
<jdong> just started work at evil empire and am figuring out my sleep and work schedule on this coast
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<arand> In Bug #588519 I've mnaged to "fix" a FTBFS by just replacing "ld -E -shared" with "gcc -shared" in the configure(.ac), Is this a sane change? Should it be done in debian/rules instead? This only broke on i386 and powerpc, would this change affect the other archs (which doesn't fail) in a negative way?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588519 in steam (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] on i368 with "xslt.c:(.text+0x1bb4): undefined reference to `__stack_chk_fail_local'"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588519
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Hiya Daniel.
<BlackZ> could someone sponsor bug #554823 ? thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 554823 in logrotate (Ubuntu) "Please merge logrotate 3.7.8-6 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554823
<AnAnt> Hello, can I do source-only uploads to upload.ubuntu.com ?
<maxb> AnAnt: AFAIK you can *ONLY* do source-only uploads to there
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> thanks
<Rhonda> I would like to know what I can do to get bug 570609 moved further along.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570609 in Karmic Backports "Please backport wesnoth-1.8 (1:1.8-3ubuntu1/universe)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570609
<Rhonda> Is there anything I could do about "https://launchpad.net/~wesnoth-unstable" - I consider it highly distracting and misleading, especially there was no contact made about it with anyone involved in wesnoth?
<arand> In Bug #588519 I've mnaged to "fix" a FTBFS by just replacing "ld -E -shared" with "gcc -shared" in the configure(.ac), Is this a sane change? Should it be done in debian/rules instead? This only broke on i386 and powerpc, would this change affect the other archs (which doesn't fail) in a negative way?
<ubottu> 'Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable\nResponse headers:\n---\nconnection: close\ncontent-length: 5384\ncontent-type: text/html;charset=utf-8\ndate: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 11:31:39 GMT\nserver: zope.server.http (HTTP)\nstatus: 503\nvary: Accept-Encoding\nvia: 1.1 wildcard.edge.launchpad.net\nx-powered-by: Zope (www.zope.org), Python (www.python.org)\n---\nResponse body:\n---\n<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//
<Laney> Rhonda: You could ping a backporter
<Laney> and about that team, I don't think so, short of negotiating with them
<Rhonda> jdong, ScottK, siretart? :)
<Laney> (please approve my pinta backport at the same time ;)
<Rhonda> Laney: (copycat) :P
<sebner> Laney: great lucid has debsrc3 support, hmm? ^_^
<sebner> Rhonda: now going with a backport? :)
<Rhonda> sebner: For karmic I don't see any other chance.
<Rhonda> That's a completely different area/topic.
<sebner> Rhonda: pff, karmic is oooold. lucid lts ftw!
<Rhonda> Users still use karmic and do request packages.
<sebner> Rhonda: users don't know what's best for them :P
<siretart> Rhonda: yes?
<Rhonda> sebner: "most users choose convenience over security, and that's reflected in the choice of the current default" - you mean like that?
<Rhonda> sebner: â¦ even upstream doesn't know what's best for them in that case, mind you.
<sebner> heh
<Rhonda> siretart: You are listed in the backporter team, may I interest you in bug 570609
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/570609)
<Rhonda> â¦ when launchpad is behaving again. ;)
<siretart> yeah, looks indeed good to me so far, but I'm currently in the middle of something else :(
<Rhonda> siretart: Sure, no rush. :)
<netshine> hey all :-0
<dupondje> netshine: you can start with checking merges.
<dupondje> check if they can be synced / merged
<netshine> i was thought to think with new packing.
<netshine> to find some need to be pack and work on it.
<azeem> netshine: AIUI, fixing/working on current packages which need help is preferred to packaging new stuff
<netshine> azeem, i really dont know about what you talking about , sry ;-(
<azeem> never mind, then
<netshine> im new in all of this:-0
<dupondje> netshine: this means we don't really need new packages, but we need current packages in ubuntu patched
<dupondje> like bugfixing, updates, merges etc
<netshine> oh
<netshine> dupondje, do you mean the fixing the current packages is more priority?
<dupondje> yes
<netshine> oh,
<dupondje> most software is packaged anyway.
<netshine> ill start working and learning it right now, tnx for advice.
<ScottK> Rhonda: LP id down for maintenance right now.  I'll be glad to look at the backport when it's up if siretart can't.
<Laney> it's back up now
<ScottK> oh..
<siretart> ScottK: please do
<BlackZ> why am I getting W: apt-p2p source: missing-debian-source-format ? I have created the debian/source/format file with 3.0 (quilt)
<ScottK> Rhonda: I approved it.  Now it needs to wait for an archive admin with shell access to process the actual backport.
<BlackZ> nevermind, fixed
<Rhonda> ScottK: cheers!
<effie_jayx> ls
<jpds> Desktop examples.desktop Pictures
<effie_jayx> lol
<geser> nothing interesting :(
 * sebner is sure jpds hides the interesting stuff :P
<Rhonda> What does the added tag story-better-bug-notification in a LP bug usually mean?
<Rhonda> Or are the LP bug tags a freeform?
<effie_jayx> Ampelbei-: ping?
<slytherin> Rhonda: yes they are free form.
<Rhonda> slytherin: I see, thanks.
<arand> In Bug #588519 I've mnaged to "fix" a FTBFS by just replacing "ld -E -shared" with "gcc -shared" in the configure(.ac), Is this a sane change? Should it be done in debian/rules instead? This only broke on i386 and powerpc, would this change affect the other archs (which doesn't fail) in a negative way?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588519 in steam (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] on i368 with "xslt.c:(.text+0x1bb4): undefined reference to `__stack_chk_fail_local'"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588519
<arand> geser: picked it up after you mentioned yesterday, you got any opinions on it?
<geser> arand: I saw it, but I don't know enough about linking to judge if dropping the -E from the ld call is acceptable or not
<netshine> hey all, iam new here, and i bugsquad accept my request to be a member,
<netshine> what now?
<netshine> i am reading the wiki, and its little bit "mess" (for me)
<dupondje> netshine: what you want to do exactly ? :)
<netshine> join ubuntu as a motu, and for that i was reading that i need to do some contribute action.
<netshine> and , i am more the fine with it, and really like to help., and as you say before, fixing current packages it in better priority from create a new one
<netshine> so i would like to help in Preparing Patches.
<netshine> i hope i clear enough :-\
<netshine> :-?
<dupondje> netshine: find a bug, find out whats broken, and make a patch ?
<netshine> ok, how can i find a bug, that first
<netshine> ?
<dupondje> launchpad.net, its FULL of it
<netshine> im there.
<BlackZ> arand: an hint: don't confirm your own bugs
<lfaraone> For some reason, python-sugar-toolkit-0.88 is supposed to have a bunch of files installed ( see http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/i386/python-sugar-toolkit-0.88/filelist ), but when I install it in  VM dpkg -L gives me a much smaller list: http://sprunge.us/IVIB
<BlackZ> lfaraone: hmm... that's strange
<lfaraone> BlackZ: yep. there was a bug in debian about other problems with python-sugar-toolkit's files being misinstalled, but it was closed as unreproducable. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=576270
<ubottu> Debian bug 576270 in python-central "python-sugar-toolkit-0.88: python module not installed correctly" [Grave,Open]
<lfaraone> ( ubottu lies, the bug is marked "Done")
<BlackZ> lfaraone: I can't reproduce it - lucid 64bit
<BlackZ> it works, for me
<lfaraone> BlackZ: huh...
<BlackZ> lfaraone: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/443394/
<lfaraone> BlackZ: tell me what happens when you do "python -c 'from sugar import env'".
<BlackZ> nothing
<BlackZ> no-output command
<lfaraone> BlackZ: right, so it works. that produces a traceback for me, and for the user in the bug I referencd.
<arand> BlackZ: Well, I figured since geser had already pointed it out before, and that the failed build is pretty obvious since it's on LP, and the same error cropped up whe I tried it. I figured it justified.
<BlackZ> arand: sure but let confirm it from others
<johndescs> who
 * hyperair wonders if there's any motu-sru folk around who is willing to take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/585761 
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 585761 in banshee (Ubuntu Lucid) "[SRU] Banshee 1.6.1-1 New upstream bugfix release" [Undecided,New]
<hyperair> and the accompanying podsleuth SRU.
<dupondje> seems there is some lagg on accepting sync's :)
<hyperair> where?
<dupondje> got some sync requests open .. that havent been acked yet
<hyperair> i asked, where?
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fxload/+bug/587824
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 587824 in fxload (Ubuntu) "Please merge fxload 0.0.20081013-1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,New]
<dupondje> rest seems to be main packages :)
<sebner> dupondje: merge != sync ;)
<RunePhilosof> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed contain a proposal for the apt preferences file
<RunePhilosof> however, with the suggestion of 990 to security and 900 to updates, doesn't that mean that you won't get any regular updates to packages that has been updated through security
<RunePhilosof> furthermore, having security and updates to higher than 500 also means that packages from ppas that also appear in updates or security won't get installed from the ppas.
<RunePhilosof> Unless I interpreted apt_preferences wrong :)
<RunePhilosof> Shouldn't the apt preferences suggestion only contain the proposed at pin 400, and not the others. Since that wiki page only concerns enabling proposed and shouldn't set other stuff that someone finds better than the default.
<vish> hrm , seems we are have a bug day clash!
<vish> kernel and compiz are both on the same day :s
<vish> oops , wrong tab ! :/
<askhl_> Hi.  I'm trying to release an update to a python program I have in a ppa.  One of the users has trouble.  It appears he has files in python2.5/site-packages, python2.6/dist-packages *and* /usr/share/pyshared.  On my system, everything is in pyshared.  What could cause this, and how should I solve it?
<RunePhilosof> How do I execute step four in the sru procedure? Upload the fixed package to release-proposed? Is it dput lp:ubuntu/lucid-proposed/packagename ?
<arand> RunePhilosof: I think it's dput ubuntu:lucid-proposed rather, but you need uplod right for it.
<arand> RunePhilosof: If you don't have that, you need to wait for someone to sponsor it who has.
<RunePhilosof> right.
<Laney> No, you just upload it to upload.ubuntu.com. The target release is determined from the changesfile (which comes from the changelog)
<Laney> but if you don't have upload rights then you need sponsoring indeed
<RunePhilosof> ok
<arand> Ah, right, so with the normal dput.cf it would simply be "dput ubuntu"?
<Laney> right
<wgrant> You can use 'dput lp:ubuntu/lucid-proposed' to override the changelog (same with PPAs), but it's discouraged.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-03
<sim> Hi
<sim> I have some issue with a ppa build
<sim> here is the build log file:
<sim> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/49573645/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.linux_2.6.32-21.32%2Bnet5bigxp.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<sim> and the interesting part is:
<sim> dpkg-deb: building package `linux-image-2.6.32-21-preempt-dbgsym' in `../linux-image-2.6.32-21-preempt-dbgsym_2.6.32-21.32+net5bigxp.1_amd64.deb'.
<sim> dpkg-deb (subprocess): data: internal gzip error: read(4096) != write(0): No space left on device
<sim> I am not a packaging specialist bu it looks like there is no space left on device
<sim> or my package is wrong
<sim> anyway, any hints are welcome
<ScottK> askhl_: Depending on what python packages one has installed and what release we are discussing having all three of those is quite normal.
<ScottK> If you want help with non-Ubuntu packaging, you should try #ubuntu-packaging.
<askhl_> ScottK, thank you
<ScottK> No problem.
 * ajmitch wonders why bzr merge-package is being so unhelpful with changes in debian/control
<ripps> Can someone please tell me what's wrong with gmpc amd64 build? It's done this on and off throughout Lucid's development cycle, and now, it suddenly started doing it again. http://bit.ly/8XaWut
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<dholbach> good good - how 'bout you?
<mok0> hey dudes
<dholbach> hey mok0
<toabctl> i try to package some software but get the following error: $ dpkg-source -b loco
<toabctl> dpkg-source: error: can't build with source format '3.0 (quilt)': no orig.tar file found
<toabctl> but in the same directory are 2 files: loco_1615.debian.tar.gz and loco_1615.orig.tar.gz
<toabctl> any ideas?
<hyperair> toabctl: i think you need to give dpkg-source -b a dsc file?
<toabctl> hyperair, i have no .dsc file.
<toabctl> hyperair, i just have the original source tree (which i pack to a .orig.tar.gz) and a debian directory (which i pack to debian.tar.hz)
<hyperair> if you've got a .debian.tar.gz and a .orig.tar.gz how can you not have a .dsc file?
<hyperair> and the version seems kinda weird as well. "1615"? where's the debian revision
<mok0> hyperair, probably a native package
<sim> Hi
<hyperair> mok0: mm yes, probably.
<hyperair> toabctl: have you extracted the loco packaeg?
<toabctl> hyperair, mok0 it my own source-code
<toabctl> it's just a svn repository.
<sim> I am looking for a way to restrict the targets (for ppa build)
<hyperair> toabctl: what are you trying to do, then?
<mok0> toabctl: is it a native package?
<sim> Here is the ppa: https://launchpad.net/~sguinot/+archive/net5big-xp
<toabctl> mok0, what means native?
<toabctl> hyperair, i want to package my own software as a debian package.
<mok0> toabctl: strictly Ubuntu, not useful for anything else
<sim> The amd64 build fail because there is no space left on device
<sim> apt-get install hard-disk :)
<hyperair> toabctl: and what are you trying to do with dpkg-source?
<toabctl> mok0, no. it's a webinterface for an embedded device.
<mok0> toabctl: then you shouldn't make it native
<sim> on the other hand, i am not interested in building _all_ the kernel binary (or non-binary) packages
<toabctl> hyperair, originallly, i tried to build it with dpkg-buildpackage but the "dpkg-source" command failed.
<sim> just 2 or 3 of them should be enough for me
<hyperair> toabctl: did it say why?
<sim> so, there is anyway to give some options to the ppa buildbot
<toabctl> hyperair, it's the same error. dpkg-buildpackage just executes: "dpkg-source -b loco"
<hyperair> toabctl: how did you invoke dpkg-buildpackage?
<arand> sim: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile#Modify%20the%20source%20for%20your%20needs Has some instructions on how to disable building -rt and -xen for example, if you don't need them it might save you some space hopefully...
<sim> arand: actually I could keep this ones :)
<hyperair> toabctl: your pwd should be your source directory (as in, .orig.tar.gz is in ../ and debian/changelog is in ./debian/changelog), and run dpkg-buildpackage -b
<toabctl> hyperair, dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot
<hyperair> toabctl: you need to either specify -b or -S, i think.
<hyperair> toabctl: do you want a binary or a source package?
<toabctl> hyperair, both
<sim> arand: I am not very confortable with modifying the package controls by removing some targets
<hyperair> toabctl: then add a -b
<hyperair> toabctl: dpkg-buildpackage -b -us -uc -rfakeroot
<sim> modifications have to be less intrusive as possible
<arand> sim: Like mentioned in #lp, I think you don't have much choice otherwise...
<toabctl> hyperair, what about the source format ( i use 3.0 quilt). i thought i need also a debian.tar.gz in SOURCE/../
<toabctl> hyperair, i use a Makefile to create a release with:
<toabctl> $ dpkg-source -b loco
<toabctl> tail: cannot open `loco/debian/changelog' for reading: No such file or directory
<toabctl> dpkg-source: error: tail of loco/debian/changelog gave error exit status 1
<toabctl> sorry. wrong post.
<toabctl> release: revision
<toabctl> 	@echo $(RELEASENAME)
<toabctl> 	tar cfz ../$(RELEASENAME_ORIG) ../loco/ --exclude-vcs --exclude=loco/debian
<toabctl> 	tar cfz ../$(RELEASENAME_DEBIAN) ../loco/debian --exclude-vcs
<toabctl> ^^ that's it
<toabctl> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi toabctl
<BlackZ> can someone sponsor bug #588664 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588664 in gnumeric (Ubuntu) "Please merge gnumeric 1.10.5-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588664
 * hyperair tickles sebner 
 * sebner pets hyperair 
<hyperair> sebner: you use maverick, right?
<sebner> hyperair: hrm, in fact I use lucid with some packages from maverick :P
<hyperair> lol
<sebner> hyperair: LTS! I want a stable system now and then :P
<hyperair> hehehe =p
<hyperair> i thought you were all about bleeding edge
<hyperair> i was wondering how client-side-decorations were done in maverick.
<sebner> hyperair: wth is client-side-decoration?
<hyperair> sebner: moving window decorations from the window manager's role to each applications' roles.
<hyperair> sebner: i'm wondering how they're intending to pull it off without resulting in inconsistency horror.
<sebner> hyperair: is that even implemented already?
<hyperair> sebner: from what i heard, they attempted to turn it on in lucid, but ran into all kinds of walls and turned it back off.
<hyperair> and it's back on maverick, or so i've heard.
<sebner> hyperair: dunno, try maverick alpha1 later in a vm :P Ack about the horror stuff though
<hyperair> sebner: there was an open letter by some kwin dude.
<hyperair> sebner: considering all that was said about how the notification area was *inconsistent*, it's really puzzling why they're now straying down the CSD path.
<sebner> hyperair: desktop team should care about gnome-shell and improve integration in ubuntu then going wild alone again ..
<sebner> *than
<RAOF> CSD has been on the road map for a long time.
<RAOF> (GTK roadmap)
<kklimonda> heh, lets not talk about gnome-shell ;)
 * sebner hides
<sebner> hyperair: RAOF is now a coninical guy, we have to watch out! Psssssssssssssst :P
<StevenK> sebner: If you're going to troll, how about you at least type correctly? :-)
<kklimonda> hyperair: applications that support csd should look the same. one thing I'm not sure about is running remote applications but then I find remote features of X11 a relic of the ancient past.. ;)
<sebner> StevenK: full ack ^_^
<sebner> StevenK: .. and I don't troll RAOF, he is a valued member of debian-cli ;)
<slytherin> What is process for SRU these days? Attach debdiff, get it reviewed and upload OR attach debdiff, upload and get everything reviewed?
<dupondje> dholbach: a question on bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/588166) you commented. So the depends needs to be in main also for a main package right? else it can't be synced ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 588166 in xterm (Ubuntu) "Sync xterm 258-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<dholbach> dupondje: exactly
<dupondje> ah k :D
<dupondje> sounds logic :)
<keffie_jayx> I have question on the patches... If a patch is in the list t be applied and somehow the source directory has changes in name due to version numbers... does the patch still gets applied or one has to manully fix the paths in the  patch
<mok0> keffie_jayx: without knowing for sure, I would think that you need to fix the paths
<keffie_jayx> I think so too
<c_korn> keffie_jayx: you don't need to update the patch if the source directory name changed.
<keffie_jayx> thanks
<c_korn> the patches are run with -p1
<mok0> c_korn: that depends on what way the paths have changes
<mok0> s/changes/changed
<c_korn> of course. if the path inside the source directory changed the patches have to be changes for sure
<c_korn> I thought keffie_jayx just meant a source directory name change
<c_korn> s/changes/changed/
<c_korn> :)
<keffie_jayx> it is just the source directory
<keffie_jayx> versions
<mok0> c_korn: your left pinky is also misbehaving :-)
<keffie_jayx> I am finding out why a patch won't get applied
<mok0> keffie_jayx: hm
<keffie_jayx> it is active in the list, the patch system is quilt
<mok0> keffie_jayx: then c_korn is right
<keffie_jayx> series lists it
<keffie_jayx> and it must be another patch overriding changes
<mok0> keffie_jayx: or reversing the changes
<keffie_jayx> or simply not found in the source and therefore not patch, but I guess that would FTBFS
<mok0> keffie_jayx: I could see that happening
<keffie_jayx> thanks guys
<mok0> keffie_jayx: we didn't solve the problem though
<keffie_jayx> you got me out of my doubt
<keffie_jayx> I think you did
<keffie_jayx> now it is up to me to findout why on earth the patch is set to be applied and it doesn't patch the code :)
<mok0> keffie_jayx: weird indeed
<mok0> keffie_jayx: step through them manually using quilt
<keffie_jayx> I was actually reading them one by one
<mok0> keffie_jayx: but try to apply them, that might result in an explanation
<keffie_jayx> ok
<dupondje> dholbach: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libutempter/+bug/589103
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 589103 in libutempter (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libutempter" [Undecided,New]
<keffie_jayx> most weird
<BlackZ> mr_pouit: patch for bug #588664 fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588664 in gnumeric (Ubuntu) "Please merge gnumeric 1.10.5-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588664
<jariq> I am not sure what to do then there is new upstream release available. Should I create new orig.tar.gz file and start with clean changelog ???
<BlackZ> jariq: nope, just add a new changelog entry, and yes, you need a new .orig.tar.gz for the new upstream release
<jariq> BlackZ: thx
<xteejx> Hey guys, I want to start to package for Ubuntu, mainly new ones on LP. I've had a quick look at the PackagingGuide on the wiki but it's a little confusing. Can anyone direct me to more "dummy" level tutorials or anything like that please? (if they exist)
<azeem> dunno about other tutorials, but if you questions about the PackagingGuide, you can ask them here
<xteejx> ahh ok :)
<xteejx> Would source that builds/compiles with "./configure make make install" be easier to package than something that hasn't got these, or are these scripts easy enough to make that it doesn't make any difference?
<xteejx> Sorry if I don't make too much sense, not with it today :(
<cpscotti> afaikm, if you use the standard (./conf, make , make install ) everything will get better for you
<cpscotti> really
<cpscotti> xteejx: for example, most of the packaging guides use this
<cpscotti> (unless your app is in python or the like)
<xteejx> well I'm not a dev so I'd be picking an easy-ish one to package for my 1st time :)
<Laney> I advise you not to start with packaging new software
<xteejx> really? why?
<Laney> both because it's very difficult and because it tends to lead to unmaintained packages in the archive
<Laney> it's a better idea to get to grips with how stuff works by fixing existing bugs. And we have enough of those to work on
<xteejx> hmm...first point fair enough, but I been part of bug control and bugsquad for 2-3 yrs now I'm not likely to abandon things ;)
<xteejx> ok then...any guides on fixing bugs that is easy to follow? lol
<ari-tczew> xteejx: don't be discouraged. On my example, I've started packaging on simple merges, looking for Ubuntu Development procedures etc.
<cpscotti> Laney:  I always felt like the developers themselves should (when applicable) do the packaging.. this way.. they take responsibility for both the app and the package... does this makes sense for more people on the community?
<cpscotti> (and well.. if you do things right.. and you get the correct docs, packaging for debian is pretty easy and straight forward)
<xteejx> hmmmm....i thought merges were done automatically or is that syncs? :S
<Laney> cpscotti: They can do it indeed if they wish, but working in partnership with a distro developer also works very well IME
<cpscotti> well.. in my case I simply forgot the other distros (made the app for and packaged for ubuntu)
<cpscotti> (even though the app should run ok on all the rest)
<ScottK> I think it depends.
<Laney> as long as you keep the upstream and packaging stuff reasonably unentangled then it's alright
<Laney> so that other distros can incorporate your stuff if they want
<ScottK> I maintain anything I'm involved in upstream for in Debian/Ubuntu but no way am I qualified to touch RPM packaging.
<ScottK> So as long as you're involved in the distro you're packaging for and understand how it works, it's great.
<xteejx> well I understand most of the work process
<cpscotti> for sure.. when I was making my first package I was advised (here) to keep every unplugged.. and really .. the debian/watch scheme is just beautiful
<ScottK> If it's hard for someone else to package your work for another distro, you're probably doing it wrong (your upstream work).
<xteejx> I'm not a dev :P
<cpscotti> ScottK: good point.
<xteejx> Ignore me I'm already confused
<cpscotti> involving more than one does forces things to follow the standars
 * xteejx crawls back into his cave
<ScottK> xteejx: No need to do that, but really making entirely new packages is about the most complex thing there is to do.
<ScottK> It's really better to learn packaging through updates and bug fixes so you can learn a little bit at a time.
<xteejx> ScottK: I see. Well I don't wanna end up drowning in the deep end :)
<xteejx> Any suggestions?
<ScottK> Not specific ones.  I'm kind of tied up with $WORK at the moment.
<Laney> Take a look at the bugs for your favourite package and see if you can fix them
<Laney> Scan merges.ubuntu.com for any packages you like and see if you can merge them with Debian
<Laney> Have a look at the FTBFS list for stuff to solve
<xteejx> My favourite package....hmmmm lol
<xteejx> ftbfs? fail to build?
<Laney> yes
<xteejx> Where do I find those ones - certainly sounds easier than building entire package
<Laney> the link is in the topic
<dupondje> there are ALOT of ftbfs :(
<dupondje> so alot of work :)
<ari-tczew> dupondje: go ahead
<xteejx> could some of them be stupid things like missing build-deps?
<dupondje> ari-tczew: sure. But did some merges/syncs last days
<xteejx> alot? It shows 9
<xteejx> this is the right link? http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<dupondje> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/
<xteejx> bloody hell there is a few !
<ari-tczew> universe (589)
<dupondje> you won't feel bored the next days :)
<xteejx> Does it matter that I'm using Lucid?
<Laney> You'll at least want a maverick chroot, and maybe a VM depending on what you're up to
<xteejx> FTBFS stuff
<geser> xteejx: no, you need at least a maverick pbuilder (or similar) for test-building
<xteejx> oh god
<xteejx> I'll look into how to set one up....
<dupondje> is there btw a possibility to build things for like ia64 or armel ?
<ari-tczew> the nice work on ftbfs is fix: "Package is waiting on another package" because we can combine job - fixing ftbfs though by merge/sync
<xteejx> not without those archs where you are i dont think
<ScottK> It depends on the bug.
<ScottK> Some you can fix based on the build logs, but usually it's hard.
<xteejx> Is anyone else getting a "Lost something?" error with LP when trying to look at build logs?
<geser> dupondje: for armel there is (through qemu) but I don't know how fast and compatible it is. For ia64 I don't know (and I wouldn't care too much about ia64).
<tumbleweed> geser: armel in qemu is totally usable
<geser> xteejx: yes, known problem. The script generates currently broken links. Remove the "1.0" from the link and it should work
<tumbleweed> (and certainly faster than my real hardware for weird old architectures)
<xteejx> thanks geser :)
<dev__> To start package building/fixing bug for ARM, can you suggest any package ??
<dev__> I am reading complete conversation and now I am sure bug fixing is the best first step to start.
<dupondje> feel free to pick anything
<dev__> How to find packages with Bug ?
<dev__> k
<dupondje> its always nice to choose a package you use ..
<dupondje> then you fix your own problems :)
<dev__> should be small and simple one ?
<dev__> k
<geser> it would be really nice if hdf5 could get fixed on armel to build as that would (hopefully) allow to get octave3.2 build on armel which would allow to get the many octave packages get build on armel
<dev__> dupondje, thx
<xteejx> the ubuntu archive site is crawling along!!
<dev__> k. so hdf5 can be good start for me.
<dupondje> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/49300098/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-armel.hdf5_1.8.4-patch1-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dupondje> enjoy ! :D
<dutchie> so with the FTBFS stuff, should we create a bug report to document it?
<geser> only if you have a fix to sponsor
<dutchie> ok
<dev__> Which is main package for hdf5   ? hdf5-tools or h5utils ?
<geser> hdf5 is the source package
<geser> the FTBFS list lists only source packages
<dev__> fine. Let me start with first task. If I stuck with some problem I will ask you ppl :)
<dev__> thx
<xteejx> How can I check if I installed the chroot correctly, i.e. can I check the Ubuntu version after i 'sudo chroot /var/chroot'?
<geser> lsb_release -a
<xteejx> I tried that...command not found :S
<geser> sudo apt-get install lsb-release
<xteejx> sudo...command not found lol oh hang on I'm root anyway :P
<BlackZ> xteejx: or run cat /etc/issue directly
<xteejx> both worked great thanks guys :)
<mcas> hi
<mcas> i want to fix a bug where a service is installed as dep but not started at the right time
<mcas> i think i had to tweak the .postinst file from the package
<mcas> can i simply say if /etc/init.d/mysql status is running  -> ok else /etc/init.d/mysql start ?
<dupondje> I think the order should be changed then
<mcas> how can i do this dupondje
<dupondje> that the dep-service is started before its needed
<mcas> which file is it?
<dupondje> no idea directly, but think thats the best way of fixing it
<mcas> the dep-service is in controlfile as recommends
<dupondje> the the dep-service is normally started before the post.install of the package you install
<ScottK> dupondje: If it's a recommends, you can't rely on that.
<ScottK> All you can rely on is that the package is unpacked.
<mcas> ScottK: that exactly what i see
<mcas> do i have to change it from recommend to depend?
<ScottK> That wouldn't change anything about what you can rely on.
<mcas> so i have to go my first plan? checking mysql and if its not running start it by myself?
<ScottK> Normally you don't do that.
<ScottK> Generally there are system methods such as sysv init sequencing or upstart jobs to get the events in the right order.
<mcas> but my postinst tries to connect to mysql when mysql isn't running
<mcas> the status of mysql ist installed ok unpacked
<ScottK> Technically you could do this with pre-depends, but that sort of solution probably isn't suitable for the official archive.
<mcas> i think bacula, the package i work on, is in main, so i need a solution that works for the official archive
<mcas> i am talking about bug #321091
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 321091 in bacula (Ubuntu) "Bacula fails to install correctly if mysql wasn't installed before" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/321091
<dupondje> mcas: I dunno, but maby check how other packages do it ?
<dupondje> guess there are some other that depend on mysql ?
<azeem> but none might try to use mysql in their postinst
<dupondje> I bet some do ... :)
<mcas> i am looking for other packages ;-)
<dupondje> guess mythtv does ...
<mcas> dupondje: mythtv has mysql as dep not recommend... i'll try this
<dupondje> bacula needs mysql to work ?
<soren> bacula-director-mysql does.
<soren> It can use a number of different metadata storage backends and they each have their own package.
<dupondje> bacula-director-mysql should depend on mysql then no ?
<mcas> i think so
<dupondje> if bacula-director-mysql NEEDS mysql to work, then it should depend on it instead of recommend imo :)
<azeem> dupondje: supposedly, it can connect to a remote mysql as well
<mcas> azeem: correct but then should it bring up a message like postfix where i can select where my mysql runs
<dupondje> yea indeed
<dupondje> and if its local
<dupondje> the user should assure MySQL is running ofc ..
<mcas> ok ... how can i make such a selection :-D
<dupondje> you say 'like postfix'
<dupondje> hrhr :) apt-get source postfix :)
<mcas> hrhr... and i thougt this would be a good bug to start my packaging work ;-)
<dupondje> yea
<dupondje> sometimes you thing: 'oh it seems easy'
<dupondje> think*
<azeem> mcas: it's certainly a difficult bug
<mcas> i thought there were a definition of server-papercuts... "easy to fix" ...
<mcas> :-)
<mcas> how long until alpha2 deadline?
<c_korn> mcas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
<mcas> thx c_korn
<ScottK> mcas: No, you've selected quite a difficult problem to work on.
<dutchie> i'm looking into the FTBFS of anerley on maverick. I'm building out of lp:ubuntu/anerley with "bzr bd --builder=pdebuild", and seeing a different error to the one at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/48167454/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.anerley_0.2.3-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dutchie> not sure what's going on
<dupondje> dutchie: looks like missing dependency
<dutchie> dupondje: it gets as far as building on my machine though :/
<Laney> what's the new error then?
<dutchie> too many args for some function or other
<dutchie> http://media.joshh.co.uk/anerley-build.log is what I got from "bzr bd --builder=pdebuild"
<Laney> er, that package has been removed from Debian
<dutchie> anerley?
<Laney> yeah
<dutchie> great
<dutchie> shall I stop working on it then?
<Laney> sounds like a plan
<MTecknology> You guys normally use schroot for making chroot environments?
<Laney> I do (through the mk-sbuild wrapper), dunno about anyone else
<MTecknology> !info red5
<ubottu> Package red5 does not exist in lucid
<hyperair> everything uses debootstrap anyway
<MTecknology> According to this - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/red5 - doesn't red5 exist in 10.04 ??
<dupondje> MTecknology: to build I use pbuilder ... :)
<dupondje> MTecknology: look @ the building
<dupondje> its waiting for a dependency
<dupondje> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/48313001/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.red5_0.9.1-1_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz
<MTecknology> !info groovy-doc
<ubottu> groovy-doc (source: groovy): Agile dynamic language for the Java Virtual Machine (documentation). In component main, is optional. Version 1.6.4-4ubuntu2 (lucid), package size 3600 kB, installed size 74032 kB
<MTecknology> !info libmina2-java
<ubottu> Package libmina2-java does not exist in lucid
<MTecknology> !info libmina2-java maverick
<ubottu> Package libmina2-java does not exist in maverick
<MTecknology> dupondje: so that needs to exist first...
<dupondje> MTecknology: yea ofc, you can't build a package that depends on packages that doesn't exist ...
<MTecknology> dupondje: I don't see it existing in LP :(
<MTecknology> I was exited to see a package for red5 though :P
<dupondje> seems like they are not yet synced from debian
<MTecknology> dupondje: thanks for that :)
<MTecknology> dupondje: it won't be in lucid then?
<MTecknology> because of the import freeze beign long gone?
<dupondje> forget it for lucid
<dupondje> for maverick it should maby be possible
<MTecknology> dupondje: thanks a bunch :)
<ari-tczew> you can file a sync request for non-existing packages
<ripps> Can someone please help me figure this out, I'm starting to get emails from people telling me how the gmpc-trunk amd64 package is broken now. http://launchpadlibrarian.net/49586888/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.gmpc_0.20.0%2Bgit20100502.ffa5341-0ubuntu1~ripps1~lucid_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ari-tczew> ripps: maybe it's ftbfs due to gcc 4.4
<geser> ripps: can you pastebin the code around the mentioned line in the error message?
<ripps> ari-tczew: that is a possibility, it went through this on and off throughout lucid development, but it worked after lucid was released, it just started doing this again a few weeks ago.
<ripps> geser: here's the whole file, it's not that long: http://pastebin.com/vqmMZDqD
<ripps> public
<ripps> that's the line it's having trouble with?
<geser> which language is that?
<geser> vala?
<ripps> geser: I know portions of gmpc code is vala
<ripps> it says it's a gob file
<ripps> I think all of gmpc's vala code is kept seperate in src/vala. so, no I don't think it's vala
<geser> I assume it can't resolve the "GmpcMetaWatcher" as the other error is about it too
<ripps> geser: I don't understand why this seems to come and go, the developer hasn't changed the code in months
<ripps> And only with amd64 nontheless
<ari-tczew> !info vte
<ubottu> Package vte does not exist in lucid
<geser> ari-tczew: !info works on binary package names not on source ones
<ari-tczew> ok then:
<ari-tczew> !info libvte-dev
<ubottu> libvte-dev (source: vte): Terminal emulator widget for GTK+ 2.0 - development files. In component main, is optional. Version 1:0.23.5-0ubuntu1 (lucid), package size 345 kB, installed size 784 kB
<ari-tczew> can I get !info from DEbian?
<geser> don't know
<geser> !info libvte-dev sid
<ubottu> 'sid' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, partner, stable, testing, unstable
<geser> !info libvte-dev unstable
<ubottu> libvte-dev (source: vte): Terminal emulator widget for GTK+ 2.0 - development files. In component main, is optional. Version 1:0.24.1-1 (unstable), package size 684 kB, installed size 1140 kB
<ari-tczew> nice
<ari-tczew> I'm pissed due to outdated packages.ubuntu.com
<Laney> I never use that
<Laney> lp/ubuntu/+source/package is always up to date
<ari-tczew> Laney: you not, other people yes
<Laney> me not, because it's always out of date ;)
<geser> I mostly only use it to the package for a file (as replacement for apt-file)
<ari-tczew> site is out-of-date because now it's orphaned
<ari-tczew> I'm looking on packages.ubuntu.com for packages information
<geser> for that I use "apt-cache show"
<geser> unless I need information for an older release
<ari-tczew> easier for me is write package name in firefox (packages.ubuntu.com search engine)
<ari-tczew> Laney: would you update your comment on my wiki that I'm not enough MOTU due to I use packages.ubuntu.com? ;-D
 * Laney groans
<Laney> I was trying to help you find an alternative
<ari-tczew> uhm, so thanks, love you :)
<ari-tczew> what about script syncpackage? when it will be oficially use by developers?
<Laney> I don't think it will; we are waiting for sync-in-launchpad
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: wrt outdated p.u.c just use rmadison i it can query both ubuntu and debian and got really fast at some point
 * abogani2 waves
<abogani2> Anyone could help me in the upload package process?
<BlackZ> abogani2: what upload?
<abogani2> BlackZ: linux-rt_2.6.31-11.154
<BlackZ> abogani2: is it in pending upload into a -proposed archive?
<abogani2> I uploaded it 8 hours ago but It is right now in unapproved queue and I don't know the reason. :-(
<abogani2> BlackZ: ^
<BlackZ> abogani2: the packages uploaded in -proposed have to be manually approved
<abogani2> BlackZ: Ok Who man I should beg?
<BlackZ> abogani2: is there a open bug?
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: did you thought about using bazaar instead debdiffs?
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: heh, you're right
<BlackZ> are the debdiffs wrong?
<abogani2> BlackZ: It fix three open bugs at least.
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: debdiffs aren't wrong, but bazaar is like a fashion, modern system for patches and not only
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: OK, next time I will use bazaar
<ari-tczew> I had a problem to get used to it bazaar, but it's simply to use
<dutchie> is there anything a nobody like me can do about FTBFS like http://launchpadlibrarian.net/49085811/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.critterding_1.0-beta12.1-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz?
<Laney> is sdl now fixed?
<lfaraone> Laney: I remember hearing it was, but don't quote me.
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: if there aren't problems for the sponsors I will use bazaar in the next
<Laney> dutchie: Just try a test build of it now and see if sdl works. If yes, ask for a give-back. If no, investigate that.
<dutchie> doing it now
<dutchie> seems to be working
<lfaraone> Laney: can non-motus request give-backs, or do we need to "sponsor" the request?
<dutchie> at least, libdirectfb-dev has installed
<Laney> lfaraone: the latter
<slytherin> dutchie: You are doing the build in chroot, right?
<Laney> lfaraone: I'll usually just do one if someone asks on irc
<dutchie> slytherin: yes, pbuilder
<slytherin> lfaraone: people usually just ask on IRC. Similar to how MOTUs can ask core-devs for give backs.
<Laney> I see that it got rebuilt a few days ago for the directfb transition
<Laney> so I'd wager that we can just give back critterding now
<slytherin> lfaraone: There is no process for give back really. Because failed build are auto-retried after some time.
<Laney> dutchie: given back, thanks
<dutchie> ok
<dutchie> what does that mean?
<slytherin> dutchie: The build is scheduled for retry.
<dutchie> ok
<dutchie> there were a couple more like that I saw
<MTecknology> so for a sync request - how does bug 589295 look?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/589295)
<slytherin> too bad. :-P
<dutchie> critterding has built locally now
<dupondje> what mirror contains armel packages ? :s
<jpds> dupondje: None.
<jpds> Well, actually; there are a couple of ports mirrors.
<jpds> dupondje: http://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/ubuntu-ports/
<geser> MTecknology: mina2 (source package for libmina2-java) is up-to-date with unstable in maverick, but it also is in dependency wait
<Tallken> hi! I need to understand why a kismet newcore hackish package can detect libpcap's support for PPI in ./configure but not in the ./configure part of debian/rules binary. TIA
<geser> MTecknology: one of those nice cyclic build-depends: libspring-2.5-java waits on libtiles-java (tiles) which waits on libspring-core-2.5-java (libspring-2.5-java) to get build
<geser> MTecknology: you need to figure out, how to break those cycle to get those packages build, so mina2 can get build and then red5
<geser> Tallken: do you have a links to build logs for both cases?
<MTecknology> geser: wow.. that looks exciting
<MTecknology> geser: so one of those doesn't actually depend on the other but states that it does?
<Tallken> geser: no, is it needed? snippet of configure output on both cases: Â«PPI log format: yesÂ» VS Â«PPI log format: no - PPI logging unavailable, upgrade libpcapÂ». Note: I'm running a hackish packaging attempt, I just copied the debian/ dir from kismet-2009 to the kismet-2010 dir.
<dutchie> looking at ocropus, in debian/rules it contains "AUTOMAKE=automake-1.9 ACLOCAL=aclocal-1.9 autoreconf -ivf". This seems a little wrong, as even Lucid has automake 1.11
<geser> MTecknology: it does depend (as far as I can tell), but you need to figure out how to build one of those two so you can get the other build, so you can undo your modification to the first so it get can build as intended now
<Rhonda> dutchie: But does it work with automake 1.11?
<dutchie> well, no
<dutchie> but that can't be helping
<Rhonda> Then it doesn't seem so wrong to me. :)
<MTecknology> geser: so you tweak A so B can build and thus C can build; then remove the modification to A so it can build correctly with C now existing?
<dutchie> it doesn't work with 1.9 either though
<geser> Tallken: not really needed, but without a log to look at it is hard to give any hints/advice
<Rhonda> dutchie: oh.
<geser> MTecknology: almost, tweak A so it can get build (now without the dependency on B), as A is now available B can get build now too, as B is now available too we get let the "original" A get build (undo the tweak). that C can now get build too is a nice bonus
<geser> when I see cyclic build depends, in most cases -java packages are involved.
<geser> Debian hasn't that problem, as the DD uploads the build debs too
<geser> only Ubuntu has this boot-strapping problem
<MTecknology> is it possible for an ubuntu dev to upload the deb temporarily?
<geser> no
<geser> but what could be done is something like was done for "cup" (https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cup/+changelog)
<MTecknology> oh...
<Tallken> geser: I assumed it would be something simple, since the only check the configure seems to make is checking for DLT_PPI in pcap.h , so I thought "Maybe it's fakeroot that's blocking something or something else". I can't provide you with the exact logs since I'm disconnecting, but what are you looking for in them?
<MTecknology> +++ cup-0.11a+20060608/cup_0.11a+20060608-1_all.deb.uue
<MTecknology> geser: that looks.......
<geser> Tallken: I don't know. There is no guarantee that I would see the difference that explains it. fakeroot is only used during the "install" phase and creating of the debs, the compilation is done as a normal user
<MTecknology> geser: So if I can get libspring-core-2.5-java to build in a PPA; you could take that and upload it then everything else would be able to build - then remove that modification just as was done there?
<geser> MTecknology: that is a work-around for the problem, but you might need to talk to an archive admin that he lets such a package through NEW (I assume that those source packages didn't get build successfully till now so the binary debs need NEW processing)
<geser> MTecknology: yes
<geser> you could also try contacting the DD for those packages if they have any hints how to resolve this boot-strapping problem in Ubuntu
<MTecknology> geser: I REALLY like Red5 in the sense that FMIS is $5k and this is free - and once this is fixed seems a whole massive amount easier - I'm guessing this fight is worth it - and others could benefit :)
<Tallken> geser: I just deleted CFLAGS lines out of rage and it worked -_- ; will trim down the line
<geser> MTecknology: I hope that that is the only cyclic build-dependency to get red5 build and doesn't get any bigger (I didn't check all build-dependencies but only looked at those LP shown, it might be that once those get resolved it waits on an other package)
<MTecknology> geser: no :(
<Tallken> geser: Â«CXXFLAGS = -g -WallÂ» is the culprit ?!?! tested twice... makes no sense...
<geser> MTecknology: it might even qualify for an SRU (as it's currently FTBFS), but that would be an interesting SRU
<MTecknology> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<MTecknology> !ftbfs
<MTecknology> what's that last one?
<geser> Fails To Build From Source
<MTecknology> so once building it might not even make it into lucid?
<geser> sorry, I assumed you know already this abbrevations
<geser> yes
<MTecknology> I knew the first one but forgot some - the second i didn't
<MTecknology> java sucks... doesn't it..
<MTecknology> I'll have to sound really desperate and use a lot of flattery :P
<geser> MTecknology: looks like you need to also resolve this http://launchpadlibrarian.net/49103797/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.portlet-api-2.0-spec_1.0-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz (for maverick)
<MTecknology> geser: ugly stuff :D
<sim> arand: thanks for your help
<Tallken> geser: for some reason "-Wall" was borking the detection of the PPI thing. I've no clue why.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-04
<Bachstelze> rawr
<Bachstelze> nvidia kernel module won't load on boot :/
<Bachstelze> jdong: ping
<Bachstelze> ew, wrong channel actually :|
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: ping
<RoAkSoAx> micahg: pong
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: was the testdrive fix for vbox 3.2 just a packaging change or were there internal changes as well?
<RoAkSoAx> micahg: there were internal changes only actually
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: oh, because in lucid, you can't install testdrive + vbox 3.2 because of conflicts
<RoAkSoAx> micahg: that's weird. I'm using testdrive and vbox3.2 and didn't get the conflicts
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: Lucid or Maverick?
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: http://pastebin.com/bbjuWCUp
<RoAkSoAx> micahg: lucid! I now know what you mean though :). I', using vbox-ose you are prolly using vbox itself?
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: ah, yes
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: I was wondering if I added | virtualbox-3.2 if it would work in Lucid
<RoAkSoAx> micahg: just give it a try :)
<RoAkSoAx> micahg: i'm pretty sure that's why
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: k, if it works, can I SRU it?
<RoAkSoAx> micahg: sure thing, though we could do a backport that includes the new features of testdrive
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: k, I guess that would work too
<RoAkSoAx> micahg: indeed. I'll push that to the trunk tomorrow since I'm about to go to bed and please, if you have the time test the packaging fix to see if you still have the issue please :)
<RoAkSoAx> micahg: and if you'd like, submit a patch and I'll merge it
<RoAkSoAx> to the trunk
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: I'm test building now, I'll let you know, can I just update the bug?
<RoAkSoAx> micahg: sure
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: k, thanks for your time, I have to go to sleep soon as well :)
<RoAkSoAx> micahg: oki, have a good one. Nighty :)
<micahg> night RoAkSoAx
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: oh, one more thing, I made my original bug a dupe of yours, should the packaging changes be a different bug?
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<asac> who is maintaining http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ ?
<geser> asac: wgrant and me
<geser> asac: it's about the broken links, right?
<asac> geser: no ... its about zyga who works on dashboards for QA for us in linaro ... i will send him here ;)
<asac> be nice to thim ;)
<geser> asac: aren't we always nice?
<asac> yes ;)
 * ajmitch hasn't seen any flames in here for days
<filip> hi, I have a problem with python distutils: root@tefnet:~# grep egg /usr/lib/python2.6/distutils/command/bdist.py
<filip> and I have no idea how I could solve this...
<\sh> hmm...where does mk-sbuild now holds the build-chroots when creating one with --type=file?
<spiv> w/in 28
<mok0> remind me how to get rmadison to look in Debian's archive
<jpds> -u deb
<mok0> jpds: thanks!
<Njh> does anyone know how to run a script after a deb package was installed?
<dyfet> Njh: you can have a "postinst" script as part of a package, and it is of course ran during dpkg after the package has been installed.  The $1 argument passed to the script tells you whether it is a new install, an upgrade, etc.  Is this what you mean and are asking?
<Njh> dyfet: kind of, im confused on how to run a script post installation, what i have is a metapackage pointing to the most updated version of my program, and when i install the metapackage, i want to be able to create a symlink between the metapackage name and the most updated version
<dyfet> Njh: Well, if you have created a debian package, "foo", you can have a "foo.postinst" shell script in your package's debian directory, and it will be ran after install of foo.  It is a shell script, so ultimately it can do anything, including setting symlinks as you suggest.  You expect to have multiple versions of this package simultaneously installed?
<Njh> dyfet: yah, i need to be able to have multiple versions, but i want the meta pointing to the most updated version, is the file called "foo.postinst" or "postinst.ex" ... i have tried creating posinst.ex and just echo hello, but i cant seem to get that to work
<dyfet> it would be pkgname.postinst.  It should have execute permission, and start with #!/bin/sh of course...you will also need to add a special tag, #DEBHELPER#, into the script, as this will insert additional required code into your script.  You can usually do it before the final exit.  It should exit 0 on success, so that dpkg knows whatever the postinst script did was successfull
<Njh> do i need any other bits of code besides the #!/ and DEBHELPER ?
<dyfet> You may want to do a case block on "$1", so you know whether the package is being installed or upgraded, though maybe knowing that is not essential in your use case
<Njh> Right, i just want it to echo hello for now, and if i can get that then ill be good to go,  but the code should look like  #!/bin/sh  set -e  #DEBHELPER#  echo hello exit 0
<Njh> ?
<dyfet> That could work, or having the echo before #DEBHELPER#.  I think that usually should be last...
<dyfet> (well last before the exit 0 :)
<Njh> lol, ok, im going to try after debhelper right now and see if that works
<dyfet> I think the idea is that if the user added code to the postinst script fails, it should exit with a non-zero status before #DEBHELPER# stuff is called, since if the package is not going to install successfully the default part of the script should be bypassed
<dyfet> At least that would make sense to me :)
<Njh> ah ok, cause ya after the debhelper didnt work
<Njh> that didnt work either :/
<dyfet> Does lintian say anything about your package?
<Njh> what do you mean? ... it creates fine
<dyfet> what's the name of the binary package(s) produced in the control file?
<Njh> there is no binary produced in the meta, right?
<dyfet> It still has a Package: entry in control
<Njh> yah i have a package name in the control file
<Njh> is that what you are asking?
<dyfet> I think since there is one package in your control you can also use debian/postinst
<dyfet> Your package is basically a meta with a control, a simple rules file, and just a postinst script you want to run?
<Njh> yah thats exactly what it is
<dyfet> Hmm...I could create a test case for this to try quickly here then :)
<Njh> sounds good to me!
<dyfet> Njh: since I normally do not build pure metas I had to try this...but this is what I got for my postinst....Unpacking testit (from testit.deb) ...
<dyfet> Setting up testit (0.1) ...
<dyfet> **** TESTIT!! **********
<Njh> .......... y cant mine lol
<dyfet> In testit, I have just a DEBIAN/control, and DEBIAN/postinst
<Njh> whats in both files
<Njh> ill try to just run that
<dyfet> http://pastebin.com/dYqZE7Qt
<dyfet> and the control is in http://pastebin.com/vYWqAAU9
<Njh> ok thanks, give me a second
<Njh> what did u use to make the deb
<dyfet> dpkg-deb -b testit testit.deb
<Njh> ok thats what i use too
<dyfet> But I wanted to see why this did not work for you...It was dirty, no changelog, etc :)
<Njh> haha, im going to try it now
<Njh> if i just have postinst, i get bad permissions 644
<dyfet> Yes, it has to have execute permission
<dyfet> (chmod +x)
<Njh> ok
<Njh> do i need to specify what fuke
<Njh> ive enver used chmod
<dyfet> Njh: well, in my case, I just used "chmod +x testit/DEBIAN/postinst"
<Njh> ok, thanks, hold on
<dyfet> Njh: this is of course not really a proper way to do a meta, but if it's something you just need to do for your own use, and to answer your question why your postinst did not run, I think it is sufficient
<Njh> ok
<Njh> i know why it wasnt working
<Njh> it was never an executable
<Njh> the chmod is what did it
<dyfet> ah...yes :) that is needed
<Njh> thank you so much!
<Njh> dyfet: is there any specifc way to run terminal commands in the postins
<dyfet> Njh: what do you mean by terminal commands?  Do you mean like menus?  You can use something like dialog of course to create a user selection
<Njh> dyfet: like if i just want to run ls -la  from the postinst
<Njh> or cp,mv, etc ...
<dyfet> Njh: You could do things like that, too
<Njh> dyfet: right, how would i do that
<dyfet> Njh: pretty much the same as with any other shell script.  Just add the commands you need to do.  If you use some command that is not part of a minimal install, you can add a Depends: entry to your meta to make sure it is installed first
<Njh> dyfet: yah, im kinda new at all of this haha, how would i do that .
<dyfet> I would suggest starting with a basic reference on shell scripting, etc.  I do not know of a good one offhand, but I am sure if you ask others will have something to recommend.
 * ari-tczew has got 1st place in maverick bug fixing \o/
<nigelb> ari-tczew: congrats :)
<ari-tczew> hehe :P
<micahg> ari-tczew: where is that?
<ari-tczew> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/maverick-fixes-report.html
<micahg> ari-tczew: thanks
<ari-tczew> you're welcome
<dupondje> jean-louis@dupond.be has 2 fixes => i'm even in the list
<dupondje> sick :D
<dupondje> oh, and with my old email adress also 2 fixes
<dupondje> great :p
<l3on> Hi all.. does someone of you know the meaning of "kj-triage" tag in LP?
<dupondje> i'm checking http://launchpadlibrarian.net/48423954/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.synce-kpm_0.15-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz atm
<dupondje> its creating: creating /build/buildd/synce-kpm-0.15/debian/synce-kpm/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/synceKPM
<dupondje> while it should be creating /build/buildd/synce-kpm-0.15/debian/synce-kpm/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/synceKPM
<dupondje> any idea what causes this ?
<ari-tczew> check debian/rules
<dupondje> python setup.py install \ --root=$(CURDIR)/debian/synce-kpm \ --single-version-externally-managed \
<blue_anna> does nvidia provide no binaries drivers for powerpc architecture? -- I was going to search for Scott and ask if he'd compile nvidia-glx-185 for us but I just read that it is binary
<blue_anna> and the nvidia website is crashing to much to browse it :P
<carstenh> blue_anna: as far as i know, they do not
<geser> dupondje: using dist-packages for python 2.6 is correct, but I also see that it installs to /usr/local which is bad
<geser> dupondje: please coordinate a fix with the Debian Python team in #debian-python@OFTC. They can tell you how to fix it best.
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: it gives me an error w/just the packaging change :)  Are you changes in individual commits in bzr?
<shadeslayer> i call upon the power of the MOTU :P
<shadeslayer> looks like the MOTU have a day off :P
<micahg> !ask | shadeslayer
<ubottu> shadeslayer: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<shadeslayer> are there any packaging jobs that i can look at to contribute to MOTU and eventually become one myself?
<shadeslayer> ( i need specific stuff that i can work upon,not just a wiki page describing what i can do )
<micahg> shadeslayer: merges?
<shadeslayer> micahg: hmm.. ive heard of those,is there a list of outstanding merges?
 * shadeslayer wonders if any are left
<micahg> shadeslayer: https://merges.ubuntu.com/
<shadeslayer> what do you mean by outstanding merges? Merges to be done i.e. worked upon or merges that have been worked upon and are pending  approval
<geser> shadeslayer: https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html and my merges are free to take
<shadeslayer> geser: :P
<shadeslayer> which ones have to be done? the red ones?
<micahg> shadeslayer: there you go :)
<geser> shadeslayer: all
<shadeslayer> so what do the colors represent?
<shadeslayer> geser: where do i upload a package once i work  upon it?
<geser> the Priority of a package, you can safely ignore it
<shadeslayer> eh?
<shadeslayer> oh the color
<geser> shadeslayer: file a bug, attach the debdiff, and subscribe the ubuntu-sponsors team
<shadeslayer> okies..
 * shadeslayer goes to read  more about debdiff and merging before starting
<shadeslayer> all of geser's packages are mine :P
 * micahg already has a list of merges to do :)
 * micahg is just waiting for upload rights and time to do them :)
 * shadeslayer counts 16 packages in all 
<shadeslayer> micahg: same here.. will do merges from 11th onwards
<shadeslayer_> micahg: btw how much time does it take to become a MOTU?
<shadeslayer_> like whats the period of time that i have to lear before i can apply for MOTU
<shadeslayer_> *learn
<micahg> shadeslayer_: depends, I'm not there yet :)  usually when others say you're ready
<shadeslayer_> micahg: hmm awesome :D
<micahg1> SpamapS: were there any issues with xulrunner and mongodb?
<dupondje> you need to create a bug to fix a FTBFS right ?
<geser> only if you need sponsoring
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synce-kpm/+bug/589908
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 589908 in synce-kpm (Ubuntu) "Fix FTBFS due to changed Python options" [Undecided,New]
<dupondje> there it is :D
<BlackZ> dupondje: last time remember to update the maintainer to "Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>" or run update-maintainer instead
<BlackZ> BTW it isn't an error, but that address would be preferred
<dupondje> argh, I didn't know it for sure, so I checked the wiki ... :p
<BlackZ> also, I think there's no need to generate a new debdiff, for this time let what you have set
<BlackZ> but please, the next time remember to do that
<dupondje> i'll do for sure
 * dupondje bookmarks https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<BlackZ> dupondje: if you're bored to update it manually, remember there's update-maintainer
<micahg> BlackZ: I would think update-maintainer is preferred in case the policy changes again
<BlackZ> micahg: but the ubuntu-devel-discuss address would be preferred, am I wrong?
<dupondje> yea indeed, just didn't know that command yet :)
<micahg> BlackZ: I thought that's what it sets everything to
<BlackZ> micahg: in some packages there's still the MOTU address as maintainer
<BlackZ> s/as maintainer/set as maintainer
<dupondje> did a bugreport in debian also btw, to get issue fixed on this package
<micahg> BlackZ: ah, yeah, well, idk then :)
<ScottK> Using MOTU as maintainer is obsolete.
<BlackZ> micahg: I think it should get updated
<BlackZ> ScottK: ^
<ScottK> They should all be Ubuntu Developers now.
<ScottK> It's not worth an upload just for that, but when you are changing a package for other reasons, fixing that too is good.
<micahg> ScottK: should update-maintainer be patched for htat?
<BlackZ> micahg: it's
<dupondje> '/usr/bin/install' -o root -g root -m 644 debian/build-qmail.1 debian/tmp-src/usr/share/man/man1
<dupondje> /usr/bin/install: cannot change ownership of `debian/tmp-src/usr/share/man/man1/build-qmail.1': Operation not permitted
<ScottK> micahg: No, you should just fix it.
<dupondje> huh ? isn't it building as root ?
<micahg> ScottK: k
<BlackZ> ah, you mean update-maintainer, yeah sorry
<ScottK> It will already DTRT if it's not an ubuntu.com address as maintainer.
<BlackZ> misunderstood :P
<dupondje> BlackZ: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/49689035/fix3.debdiff => bit improved :)
<dutchie> if I build using pdebuild, is there a way to get stuff like config.log out for debugging?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-05
<BlackZ> dutchie: I guess the --logfile option is what you want
<dutchie> ooh, maybe --preserve-buildplace too
<dutchie> neither --logfile nor --preserve-buildplace are what I'm looking for
<dutchie> i managed to work around it by doing ^Z on the pdebuild process and cd'ing into the build dir
<lfaraone> chrisccoulson: re bug 567819, we can't readd pyjamas to Lucid and just remove the -desktop package, can we?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 567819 in xulrunner-1.9.1 (Ubuntu) "Please remove xulrunner-1.9.1 source, binaries and remaining rdepends from Lucid" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/567819
<micahg> lfaraone: I think only in backports at this point
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synce-kpm/+bug/589908 => if anybody wants to review :D feel free :)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 589908 in synce-kpm (Ubuntu) "Fix FTBFS due to changed Python options" [Undecided,New]
<RunePhilosof> Where can I see a list of the packages most recently moved into lucid-updates?
<YokoZar> Is this a normal REVU warning?         Warning! This package could not be extracted; there's no  browsable     directory for it on REVU.
<tumbleweed> YokoZar: source format 3?
<arand> Would anyone care to sponsor Bug #581331?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581331 in bitlbee (Ubuntu Karmic) "error message while trying to use my MSN account in bitlbee" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581331
<arand> (not only error, inability, to log in)
<om26er> it it possible that an app can be without any copyright holders?
<YokoZar> om26er: someone can give up their copyrights by putting it into the public domain, but in that case we still want to document they did that in the copyright file
<YokoZar> also maybe in 90 years there will be some software with expired copyright
<dupondje> argh, did a grab-merge, edited a patch, and now it makes a totally crap debdiff :s
<geser> diff of a diff?
<dupondje> geser: http://dupondje.be/diff.debdiff
<dupondje> this is what it generates :s
<geser> dupondje: how did you check that the patches can be dropped?
<dupondje> i'll redo :)
<geser> dupondje: don't forget that a v3 source package applies the patches after unpack
<dupondje> well yea indeed
<dupondje> jl@laptopjl:~/Dev/virtinst/virtinst/virtinst-0.500.3-1ubuntu1$ quilt push 0002-Fix-path-to-pygrub.patch
<dupondje> Patch 0002-Fix-path-to-pygrub.patch is currently applied
<dupondje> jl@laptopjl:~/Dev/virtinst/virtinst/virtinst-0.500.3-1ubuntu1$ quilt refresh 0002-Fix-path-to-pygrub.patch
<dupondje> Nothing in patch 0002-Fix-path-to-pygrub.patch
<keffie_jayx> hello all, quick q, What is a pristine package?
<nigelb> keffie_jayx: I think its before having a debian folder
<nigelb> just the source package
<nigelb> its either thta ora folder on which debuild -S hasn't been run
<keffie_jayx> nigelb:  thanks :)
<dutchie> argh
<dutchie> still having trouble with the bug-buddy FTBFS
<dutchie> it seems that the compiler flags for libebook-1.2 are not being included in the compilation, but I can't for the life of me work out why not
<BlackZ> dutchie: have you got the build log?
<dutchie> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/49132948/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.bug-buddy_2.30.0%2Bdfsg-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> some other packages building against evolution seem also to have problems with pkg-config
<dutchie> i logged into the chroot and "pkg-config --cflags libebook-1.2" seemed to work fine
<geser> I don't know the details but it involved something with the replacement of the variables in the configure script
<geser> and I don't know if it the same problem here
<dutchie> yeah, the BUG_BUDDY_EDS_CFLAGS variable was just empty
<BlackZ> dutchie: is there a open bug for that?
<dutchie> not afaik
<BlackZ> dupondje: OK, report it and assign it to me, I will have the time to work on it after the week-end
<BlackZ> thanks
<dutchie> was that supposed to be me?
<BlackZ> dupondje: nope
<BlackZ> I have asked you to report a new bug and assign it to me (if you want)
<BlackZ> ops, I meant dutchie sorry
 * BlackZ kills his tab 
<dutchie> :)
<BlackZ> thanks dutchie :)
<BlackZ> sorry for the tab mistake, dupondje
<dutchie> BlackZ: what's your LP id?
<BlackZ> dutchie: blackz
<dutchie> so it is
<dutchie> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bug-buddy/+bug/590094
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 590094 in bug-buddy (Ubuntu) "FTFBS on maverick" [Undecided,New]
<BlackZ> s/FTFBS/FTBFS
<dutchie> just noticed that
<dupondje> hi BlackZ  :P
<dupondje> grab-merge seems to apply some patches, some not
<dupondje> wtf :x
<BlackZ> dutchie: should be fixed now, I will build it in few minutes
<dutchie> BlackZ: awesome
<dutchie> what was the problem?
<BlackZ> dutchie: I have added what you said to CFLAGS in configure
<BlackZ> I will see if that fixes the problem
<dupondje> what are the rules on transitional packages, we keep them forever or ?
<dutchie> i tried doing that in src/Makefile.{am,in} and it didn't seem to work
<BlackZ> dutchie: I think you have to modify the config file instead :)
<BlackZ> s/config/configure
<dutchie> yeah
<BlackZ> there are the CFLAGS
<dutchie> it doesn't seem like a proper fix though
<BlackZ> dutchie: building it now
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtinst/+bug/590068 => does that look good ? :)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 590068 in virtinst (Ubuntu) "Please merge virtinst (0.500.3-1) main from debian unstable" [Undecided,New]
<dupondje> is there a way to easly generate a debdiff without po noise ?
<dutchie> don't change the po files?
<geser> dupondje: we keep them only as long as needed
<dupondje> ok
<dupondje> I got a package doing: VERSION := $(shell dpkg-parsechangelog | sed -n 's/ubuntu[0-9]*$$//; s/\+.*$$//; /^Version/s/.* //p')
<dupondje> and then: egrep -q '^#define VERSION "$(VERSION)"$$' config.h
<dupondje> when I do the parsechangelog from shell, I get 5.0.5ubuntu1
<geser> dupondje: it looks like the transitional package can be dropped now (as updates from hardy or karmic have to upgrade to lucid first, so they transition). But if you want to be sure, ask someone from the ubuntu-virt team. If it still to be kept then it should also be in the merge changelog
<dupondje> but @ build it give:s egrep -q '^#define VERSION "5.0.5"$' config.h
<dupondje> geser: i'll check with them
<geser> dupondje: otherwise the debdiff looks fine (although I only did a rough check (e.g. didn't compared it to the current delta))
<geser> dupondje: which package is it?
<dupondje> whois
<geser> dupondje: did you also run your parsechangelog output through sed? as this should strip ubuntu1 from the version
<dupondje> jl@laptopjl:~/Dev/whois/test2/whois-5.0.2ubuntu1$ dpkg-parsechangelog | sed -n 's/ubuntu[0-9]*$$//; s/\+.*$$//; /^Version/s/.* //p'
<dupondje> 5.0.2ubuntu1
<geser> ah, replace $$ with $ in that command in your shell (the $$ is an escaped $ inside a makefile)
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/whois/+bug/590111 => working :)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 590111 in whois (Ubuntu) "Please merge whois (5.0.5) main from debian unstable" [Undecided,New]
<lfaraone> Is there somewhere where recommendations on PPA numbering can be found? I'm looking for best practices so that a team I'm involved with can test new versions of pacakges we intend to eventually officially backport or SRU (as appropreate) to Lucid.
<bdrung> lool: ping
<bdrung> lool: will you merge gst-plugins-bad0.10 0.10.19-1?
<ScottK> YokoZar: Are you still doing the spring merge?
 * ScottK files his first removal bug of the cycle.  All feels right with the world again.
<arand> Would anyone care to sponsor Bug #581331?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581331 in bitlbee (Ubuntu Karmic) "error message while trying to use my MSN account in bitlbee" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581331
<m_anish> Hi, I'm trying to learn the ropes of ubuntu-packaging ...
<m_anish> I have been able to build a very simple package using debuild and it installs correctly. However when I try pbuilder, it fails giving the following log http://dpaste.org/OE1e/ ...
<m_anish> I have been following the instructions given on this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<m_anish> what could be going wrong?
<m_anish> i'm trying this out on ubuntu-maverick-alpha1
<geser> looks like you don't have universe enabled in your pbuilder
<m_anish> geser, hmm ho do I fix that?
<arand> m_anish: For that you would need echo "COMPONENTS=\"main restricted universe multiverse\"" > ~/.pbuilderrc
<m_anish> arand, ok let me try...
<arand> m_anish: and then remake the environment
<m_anish> arand, strange, I don't seem to have a  ~/.pbuilderrc
<m_anish> i followed the steps given here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<arand> m_anish: There's none by default
<m_anish> arand, ah ok
<arand> sudo pbuilder update --override-config   in order to update with the new stuff
<arand> I think that is override config as in overriding the alreeady existing config for the chroot,
<m_anish> arand, ok its now downloading ... will take some time (~512k connection) :/
<m_anish> s/connection/speed/
<m_anish> arand, it is currently downloading but it seems to be downloading or storing multiple instances ...
<m_anish> Get:85 http://in.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick/main libfreetype6 2.3.11-1ubuntu2 [434kB]
<m_anish> Get:86 http://in.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick/main libfreetype6 2.3.11-1ubuntu2 [434kB]
<m_anish> Get:87 http://in.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick/main libfreetype6 2.3.11-1ubuntu2 [434kB]
<m_anish> Get:88 http://in.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick/main ucf 3.0025 [68.1kB]
<m_anish> Get:89 http://in.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick/main ucf 3.0025 [68.1kB]
 * m_anish should use pastebins 
<arand> m_anish: Is that not just weird rendering by apt in the terminal?
<m_anish> arand, hmm could be
<m_anish> arand, its incrementing the number in each line (which is the misleading part) ... could be a bug in apt
<m_anish> ?
<arand> m_anish: Yes, I also see that quite often, I've never really given it much thought..
<ramiro_> hi
<ramiro_> so I've added a Release.gpg file to my repo. what's a good place to put the public key users should add to their apt-key? in the root directory along with Release/Source,etc? (like myKey.gpg)
<ScottK> ramiro_: That's really not on topic for this channel.
<ramiro_> hmm, I thought it kind of would be. any suggestions for a more on-topic channel?
<ScottK> No.
<YokoZar> ScottK: Yeah
<ScottK> YokoZar: Thanks.
<dupondje> on the ftbfs list, when it says 'waiting for package xxx', does it automaticly retry to build after some time? or does it need to be triggered ?
<dupondje> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghc6/6.12.1-13/+build/1724568/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-ia64.ghc6_6.12.1-13_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz => thats a cool one :p ghc6 is waiting for ghc6 ... :p
<ScottK> dupondje: Yes.
<ScottK> (it automatically retries)
<dupondje> ah ok :)
<dupondje> /usr/bin/install: cannot change ownership of `debian/tmp-src/usr/share/man/man1/build-qmail.1': Operation not permitted => got any clue btw? Aren't packages builded as root ?
<ScottK> Normally fakeroot.
<ScottK> But, meh.  qmail.  Ancient history.
<dupondje> still used alot :)
<ScottK> You say that like it's a good thing.
<dupondje> if alot of people still use it, its good to keep the package up-to-date
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-06
<shadeslayer> hi,i would like a mentor for training me
<shadeslayer> ah looks like the mentor program is being revamped...
<micahg> lfaraone: I'm going to try to clean up the pyjamas situation
<lfaraone> micahg: cool, thanks.
<micahg> lfaraone: I'll subscribe you to the new bug I'm going to make if you want
<lfaraone> micahg: that'd be awesome. I'm about to zzz, so I'll see you tomorrow. :)
<micahg> lfaraone: k
<diwic> I'm considering packaging four small upstream apps into one deb, should I 1) unpack all upstream sources and repack them as one and considering that my original tarball or 2) just pack the upstream sources into an additional package and unpack the upstream sources during the build process?
<micahg> diwic: why not package them individually?
<diwic> micahg: because they are so small, and strongly related to each other
<geser> dupondje: re qmail FTBFS: not all targets are called as root: "The build target must not do anything that might require root privilege." while "The binary targets must be invoked as root."
<geser> dupondje: you might fix it by re-arranging the targets a little bit in debian/rules: make the build target don't depend on binary-src but instead make binary-indep depend on binary-src instead of build
<lool> bdmurray: I only merged the testing version; the unstable version would be needed indeed
<lool> bdmurray: sorry, ENICK
<loneowais> hey everyone.... have some question about getting started with devel and packaging
<loneowais> first of all... a linux program is scattered all across the filesystem.. to /usr/bin and /usr/share etc
<loneowais> unlike windows where almost everything stays in one directory
<loneowais> how do i lay out my project?
<loneowais> do i create local bin and share directories
<loneowais> i've not seen anyone do this
<geser> !FHS
<ubottu> An explanation of how files and directories are organized on Ubuntu, and how they can be manipulated, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxFilesystemTreeOverview  see also: man hier
<loneowais> ubottu: i know that
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<loneowais> oh
<loneowais> lol
<geser> :)
<loneowais> so.. when i start writing my app.. how do i layout my source files
<loneowais> also
<loneowais> while packaging... all examples show hello world or something
<loneowais> how do i generate the .dsc and other files when packing a new app... say my own app.i wrote from scratch
<geser> how your organize your source is up to you
<loneowais> ok... so then how does everything end up in /usr/share and other directories
<loneowais> i mean
<loneowais> when converting from source to deb
<loneowais> how does the debuild or any packaging system know what file to keep in share and what in lib
<loneowais> how to mention that
<dupondje> How can I request a new package into universe? An update of another package is now depending on libopensync-plugin-vformat, but thats not in universe yet ...
<oojah> loneowais: Typically all packages have a makefile which determines how it is built.
<geser> the most part of it does your Makefile (which can also be used by others)
<oojah> loneowais: It will also provide a way to install files to the appropriate locations.
<geser> build a deb mostly involves: installing the build-dependencies, apply patches if needed, build using the upstream Makefile, install using the upstream Makefile into a stage directory, build the debs from that staging directory
<loneowais> oojah: hmmm
<loneowais> oojah: so deb packager read the makefile and decides
<oojah> loneowais: The deb build scrC[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[Cipts will run the Makefile to create the binaries and then install them into the .deb.
<oojah> Ooops, I don't know what happened there.
<loneowais> ok.. will look into it deeper
<loneowais> also
<loneowais> suppose i'm writing an app from scratch
<loneowais> a new one...
<loneowais> how do i generate the files required for building
<oojah> loneowais: My recommendation would be to not worry about deb or other packaging quite yet - get your project started and building and go on to that later.
<tumbleweed> dupondje: before debian import freeze, it should come in by itself, afterwards, a sync request works
<dupondje> tumbleweed: ok :) lets hope its gets here fast :D
<tumbleweed> dupondje: what is this for?
<oojah> loneowais: Or you could try looking at Quickly to get you going: http://bit.ly/404wgL
<oojah> loneowais: Quickly will do a lot of what you're asking I think.
<tumbleweed> dupondje: according to http://packages.qa.debian.org/libo/libopensync-plugin-vformat.html it's been in debian for a while, so it must have been blacklisted
<oojah> Otherwise it's mostly just "write them yourself".
<tumbleweed> oojah: or dh_make
<dupondje> tumbleweed: http://packages.debian.org/sid/opensync-plugin-evolution
<dupondje> for this one
<dupondje> newest versions depends on it
<tumbleweed> dupondje: you have seen http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=580867 ?
<ubottu> Debian bug 580867 in opensync "opensync: Unfit for release" [Serious,Open]
<tumbleweed> (the excuses for all those packages lead to it as the reason for them not being in debian testing)
<oojah> tumbleweed: Yeah, you're right. I'd made the assumption we were still talking about building source not building packages.
<tumbleweed> oojah: that's true, but for say a python app there's not much to a setup.py :)
<oojah> tumbleweed: You've exposed my unconcious bias towards compiled code :)
<dupondje> bleh, without additional comment ...
<tumbleweed> you're the one who suggested quickly :)
<oojah> :)
<tumbleweed> dupondje: anyway, it doesn't appear to be blacklisted (http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/sync-blacklist.txt) so I don't know what the problem is
<geser> which package?
<tumbleweed> libopensync-plugin-vformat
<dupondje> geser: http://dupondje.be/qmail.debdiff => like this you mean ?
<geser> new (as in not yet in Ubuntu) packages get synced by an other script run by the archive admins, as they review the list of new packages this isn't done very often (compared to auto-sync) and with a long list of new packages it takes some time till the list gets reviewed (which is a cumbersome task)
<geser> if you need this package now in maverick and can't wait till it find it's way into maverick on its own, file a sync request
<geser> dupondje: yes (if it works), the build dependency in the binary-indep target should get dropped (and it doesn't do anything anyways)
<loneowais> right now i'm backing up eveything from /var/cache/pbuilder/build/6999/var/cache/apt
<loneowais> manually
<geser> loneowais: pbuilder should do it for you (unless you have deactivated it), check /var/cache/pbuilder/aptcache
<loneowais> i checked
<loneowais> it's empty
<geser> do you use pbuilder directly or pbuilder-dist (from ubuntu-dev-tools)?
<loneowais> pbuilder
<dupondje> geser: it seems to build, but only qmail-src package :s
<geser> dupondje: which is correct
<dupondje> hmz ok :D
<BlackZ> geser: steam FTBFS again?
<geser> loneowais: check if you have set APTCACHE to a directory in /etc/pbuilderrc or ~/.pbuilderrc
<geser> BlackZ: looks like someone gave it back to the buildd
<BlackZ> geser: we should fix it ASAP
<loneowais> no
<loneowais> nothing is mentioned about any cahce
<BlackZ> geser: so adding the flag -wno-stack-protector is dangerous?
<geser> BlackZ: see the patch in bug 588519, but I don't know if this change has any other side-effects or not
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588519 in steam (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] on i368 with "xslt.c:(.text+0x1bb4): undefined reference to `__stack_chk_fail_local'"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588519
<geser> BlackZ: only in the sense that it disables the stack protection, which IMHO should only be done if nothing else works
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qmail/+bug/590343 there it is :P
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 590343 in qmail (Ubuntu) "Fix FTBFS due to root usage in debian/rules" [Undecided,New]
<BlackZ> geser: seems good to go
<BlackZ> but I will test the patch
<geser> dupondje: could you please also forward it to Debian so we can sync in future again?
<BlackZ> geser: if it works I will unsubscribe the ~ubuntu-reviewers team and I will subscribe ~ubuntu-sponsors with a new debdiff generated (I think that'd be correct)
<BlackZ> geser: do you think a direct-modify to the interested file would be fine? or we have to include the patch mandatory?
<dupondje> geser: i'll do
<dupondje> done :)
<loneowais> so how do i setup a local cache for pbuilder
<toabctl> is there a good guide how to manage a debian package with bzr and launchpad?
<BlackZ> geser: ^ http://launchpadlibrarian.net/49761636/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.steam_2.2.31-6ubuntu2~maverick1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
<arand> BlackZ: Oh, what do you say about the change there? I just noticed that it worked, but have no idea about it's implications...
<BlackZ> arand: I have applied your proposed patch
<BlackZ> it works, thanks
<BlackZ> arand: looks good
<arand> Ok, yea, I tested and saw that it built and installed, but I haven't really used the program, nor know exactly what it's supposed to do. And I have absolutely no idea what my patch *actually* does, so cheers for picking it up and verifying that it is sane :)
<BlackZ> arand: I have just renamed it in fix-ftbfs.dpatch
<arand> BlackZ: I was looking for an upstream, but it seem like the package is unmaintained in debian as well, so I was kind of out of luck trying to find someone who knew it thouroghly..
<arand> It doesn't seems to ftbfs in debian though... hang on... debian builds a deb for all archs instead it seems...
<BlackZ> arand: in fact it is a change just in ubuntu
<dupondje> thanks to whoever sponsored my qmail fix ;)
<sebner> dupondje: LP says it was geser ;)
<dupondje> didn't find :P
<ari-tczew> sebner: ping
<kobrien> hey, any core devs about?
<ari-tczew> kobrien: check in #ubuntu-devel
<sebner> ari-tczew: I know, I know. I'm a lazy guy. I leave now. Would you mind pinging me again in 8hours? You write a mail, then I promise I'll do it *today*
<ari-tczew> sebner: ok I'll send an e-mail to you
<sebner> ari-tczew: thx, sorry for the delay
<kobrien> ari-tczew: ah, wasn't aware of that. cheers
<ari-tczew> can someone open a task on nominated releases @ bug 521659 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 521659 in lighttpd (Ubuntu) "New upstream 1.4.26, fixes CVE-2010-0295" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521659
<kobrien> can any of you approve an ubuntu blueprint for me?
<ari-tczew> RoAkSoAx: are you interested in fix CVE-2010-0295 lighttpd package? bug 521659
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 521659 in lighttpd (Ubuntu) "New upstream 1.4.26, fixes CVE-2010-0295" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521659
<ubottu> lighttpd before 1.4.26, and 1.5.x, allocates a buffer for each read operation that occurs for a request, which allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (memory consumption) by breaking a request into small pieces that are sent at a slow rate. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2010-0295)
<johndescs> hi, i'm a beginner in ubuntu packaging. I'm trying to help with gajim, where I've done a merge from testing.
<johndescs> now i'm working on the bugs and one recurent problem is indicator
<johndescs> someone posted a patch which applies but now several problems occure
<johndescs> - the option has to be translated but i can translate only into my mothertongue
<johndescs> - neither me nor the other know how to make the gajim line disappear when someone unchecks the option
<johndescs> - no way seem available to integrate easily to indicator-me which has few documentation
<johndescs> any hint from gurus here (if it's the right place to ask)?
<BlackZ> johndescs: I don't understand your problem
<kobrien> I'm packaging a new app. How do I get it approved for Maverick?
<johndescs> BlackZ: the first: how can a string be translated when no upstream exists?
<BlackZ> kobrien: the best way would be send it to debian then it will be synced in ubuntu as well
<BlackZ> johndescs: what do you mean "no upstream exists" ? do you mean no project exist in launchpad or... ?
<johndescs> BlackZ: gajim's upstream don't want indicator support, so there is no upstream for the new option we try to get for indicator
<BlackZ> johndescs: ah, now it's more clear, I'd say a patch would be sufficient
<johndescs> BlackZ: sorry to be ambiguous and yes a patch is OK but I don't know how to call for translators
<johndescs> "translations" is greyed out on launchpad
<johndescs> bug report of the implementation: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/587272
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 587272 in gajim (Ubuntu) "gajim doesn't have indicator support" [Undecided,In progress]
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Dapper is not end of life for servers.  Please do not say it is in bugs for server packages (I'm looking at one you did for lighttpd (which is a web server)).
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I know that server support is not end, but it's in universe, so community will fix it eventually
<ari-tczew> I wrote: feel free if you are affected
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Then why did you mark the bug invalid?
<BlackZ> johndescs: if there's a patch somebody from the ~ubuntu-reviewers team will review your patch, but please don't subscribe the ~ubuntu-sponsors team until ~ubuntu-reviewers isn't unsubscribed
<ari-tczew> feel free to open *
<BlackZ> s/review/review & test
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I did, but I'm not subscribed to every bug.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Do NOT close such bugs.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I think that there are not servers using dapper
<ScottK> ari-tczew: It's not end of life and there are.
<ScottK> I get Dapper related bugs on clamav, so there are users.
<ScottK> Even if there weren't, it's not your place to declare EOL for Dapper on servers.
<johndescs> BlackZ: is it ~ubuntu-reviewers' role to translate it and make it work better when we don't know how to progress or shouldn't the patch be already almost ready for upload?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: can we feel your activity to fix these bugs?
<BlackZ> johndescs: it should be already ready
<ScottK> ari-tczew: How does that relate?
<BlackZ> BTW, I can't help you right now, sorry
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I'm marking on your MOTU app right know that you knowing mark bugs inorrectly.
<johndescs> BlackZ: Ok will hope not to do wrond things ;)
<ari-tczew> ScottK: hmm, it's very interesting. I've explained with jdstrand support for packages in dapper. There are an UCT. It's got a file called dapper-supported.txt. If package doesn't exist in this file, I can close bug.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: That only applies to Main.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: nice
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Please stop damaging the bug tracker.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I don't damage anything.
<ari-tczew> if you're interested in fix this, feel free
<ari-tczew> ScottK: you said "damaging" like I did 100000 mistakes on launchpad. calm down. this question with supporting dapper is to discuss
<vish> ScottK: hi , could you get someone to triage the kde papercuts? https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bugs?field.tag=kde , we've tagged the bugs , "kde" , should be easier to follow
<ari-tczew> ScottK: thanks for comment, love you
<ari-tczew> then I think you were always flawless
<vish> ScottK: i had asked yofe-l for help there earlier  , but he seems busy :(
<ScottK> ari-tczew: There's nothing to discuss.
<ScottK> It's still supported on servers.
<ScottK> vish: It's ask txwkinger (when he's around).
<vish> ScottK: will do , thanks
<ari-tczew> ScottK: fine fine, 2 bugs touched and comment like "NOT READY", you're golden
<ScottK> ari-tczew: It's not because of the bugs.  It's because of your reaction to my calling you on it.
<geser> ari-tczew: it's not about mistakes (everyone does one from time to time) but how one reacts if pointed at them. Don't forget that we all work together as a team.
 * ScottK has to go now.
<ari-tczew> cya!
<BlackZ> geser: have you got the time to check bug #588519 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588519 in steam (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] on i368 with "xslt.c:(.text+0x1bb4): undefined reference to `__stack_chk_fail_local'"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588519
<BlackZ> it should be fixed now, there's a proposed debdiff with the arand's patch (proposed) applied
<arand> BlackZ: I've asked before. I think both of us are kind of unsure about if the fix is a good one...
<geser> BlackZ: although the debdiff looks fine, I still don't know if it doesn't have any unexpected side-effects on the library. I don't know enough about linking to answer this.
<BlackZ> geser: thought so
<dutchie> BlackZ: did you ever get bug-buddy to build?
<BlackZ> dutchie: well, I will work at it tomorrow
<BlackZ> BTW no
<BlackZ> s/at/to
<xteejx> Hey guys, I'm working on converting the patch in bug 589909 into a debdiff. I think aptitude uses a patch system but my debdiff is a small source change and I don't know about patch systems. Is the debdiff ok? It's at http://paste.ubuntu.com/445634/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 589909 in aptitude (Ubuntu) "aptitude why error message has no newline" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/589909
<micahg> xteejx: no, you have to add a new patch w/dpatch
<xteejx> micahg: How do I do that? :S
<micahg> xteejx: http://www.tuxmaniac.com/blog/2008/01/25/dpatch-just-superb-a-short-how-to/ skip to step 5
<xteejx> micahg: So I edit what I want and tell it to make a dpatch from it? That's easy
<micahg> xteejx: here's our wiki page on it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/Dpatch
<micahg> xteejx: yeah
<xteejx> micahg: Glad our documentation is full of helpful hints lol ;)
<xteejx> Thanks though I'll get on it :)
<micahg> xteejx: k, thanks
<xteejx> How do I do the M-G on the keyboard in nano to go to a line?
<xteejx> line number*
<xteejx> don't worry M=Alt :)
<xteejx> Question: If I'm only making up diffs/debdiffs does signing the package matter since it's only local?
<Laney> no, it doesn't matter unless you are distributing it
<xteejx> bug 589909, I have subscribed sponsors, anything else need to be done?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 589909 in aptitude (Ubuntu) "aptitude why error message has no newline" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/589909
<xteejx> Laney: That's cool thank you :)
<Laney> xteejx: forward it to Debian please
<xteejx> With the debdiff?
<Laney> a patch against their vcs would be best
<xteejx> vcs??
<Laney> otherwise a debdiff against the latest version in debian
<cody-somerville> no
<xteejx> well its against the maverick version of aptitude I assumed that would be enough?
<Laney> don't assume, check
<xteejx> I'm new to this :(
<Laney> but at least the changelog entry won't be right for Debian
<Laney> cody-somerville: what does "no" mean? If you think I'm giving incorrect advice then please correct me properly
<xteejx> oh I didn't realise I had to do it for Debian
<cody-somerville> Laney, I said no first.
<Laney> I don't know what you were saying no to
<cody-somerville> Laney, so I think we were giving the same answer to xteejx's question.
<Laney> oh, it appeared out of order
<xteejx> It did here too :)
 * cody-somerville is on crappy hotel wifi.
<xteejx> Sorry if I ignored it
<Laney> wow, nobody has merged aptitude in a long time
<xteejx> The version of aptitude in Maverick is 0.4.11.11-1ubuntu10, Debian sid is 0.6.2.1-2 ermmmm isn't it WELL out of date anyway?
<xteejx> Am I missing something here?
 * xteejx is confused
<Laney> those versions are right
<geser> 0.4.11-1 got uploaded to Debian unstable on 2008-11-20, the next version which went into unstable was 0.6.0.1-1 on 2009-10-25 and only 0.6.1.5-3 made it into testing on 2010-03-23 (don't forget lucid synced with testing)
<geser> so it doesn't look that bad
<xteejx> So if there's going to be a merge for aptitude the patch is probably irrelevant?
<geser> depends if it's still an issue or not
<xteejx> I see :) So when will the merge happen?
<xteejx> I think I'll leave that bug report and come back to it at a later date, there is a debdiff for it anyway but my head is hurting now lol :P
<Laney> all you need to do is set up a Debian chroot and then reproduce the bug there
<Laney> and if you can then submit the patch to the BTS
<geser> xteejx: depends on how long you will need to prepare a merge :) (if you are interested in merging it of course)
<xteejx> Laney: When I learn how to hehe :)
<xteejx> geser: I don't know, I'm taking MOTU stuff a step at a time
<xteejx> Don't get me wrong, I would love to started really getting involved, but I get headaches easy ;)
<arand> Does anyone have some time over to sponsor Bug #581331 (sru:s, in order that we can restore functionality for msn...)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581331 in bitlbee (Ubuntu Karmic) "error message while trying to use my MSN account in bitlbee" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581331
<Laney> arand: yeah alright
 * arand hugs Laney 
<Laney> good job it's quick to build
<Laney> arand: done, thanks for your contributions
<arand> Laney: Cheers!
<Laney> it would maybe have been better to try and use the "patchsys" that the package has already, but I don't think it's a big issue since it's a weird one anyway
<arand> Laney: Hmm, well, I looked into that, and that patches is simply called by debian/rules, after the compilation steps it seems, and I though that it might've simply been stuck in there manually, thus it made litte sense for me to try to shove this into there in some arbitrary way as well, but I don't know if it's just an odd patch system, which I didn't figure out?
<Laney> arand: You would have stuck the diff in debian/patches and then added a patch line in the rules file
<arand> Yea, I tried that, but when I saw that I wouldn't be able to place it just in the same place as the other one, I figured it would be better to just use patchless. I asked here before, and was pretty much told to do either, with little preference.
<arand> But if policy is policy, I should've gone with that still?
<Laney> I think it is probably slightly preferred, but like I said it shouldn't matter
<arand> Ok, just making sure I'm on the right track.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-30
<TheMuso> c
<soaringsky> can someone please review my package packtools in revu?
<soaringsky> can someone please review my package packtools in revu?
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
 * iulian yawns.
<dholbach> hi iulian
 * dholbach yawns too
 * Laney stretches
<Laney> dholbach: hey! how are you?
<dholbach> Laney, excellent - thanks - how about you?
<Laney> I came across the packaging tutorial of lucas the other day http://people.debian.org/~laney/packaging-tutorial/
<Laney> I wonder if we could rob the (concept of) exercises
<Laney> yeah good, enjoying a bank holiday :-)
<dholbach> nice
<dholbach> yeah, sounds good to me - can you file a bug about it?
<Laney> i shall try
<lucas> it would be better if you contributed to it, rather than robbing from it;)
<hrw> morning
<hrw> can someone tell me what for revu-uploaders group exists?
<hrw> it is listed as 'no longer necessary' but each 'ubuntu contributor' becames member of it.
<Laney> lucas: heh, it's not exactly the same
<Laney> presentation vs. html guide
<Laney> it's in the same ball park though (learning material), so ...
<geser> hrw: just ignore it, it was used in the past before REVU could import gpg keys from LP for fresh uploaders
<Laney> can we delete it?
<geser> sure but better get an ACK from a REVU admin
<Laney> well they'll need to do it anyways
<Laney> as the team owner
<Laney> RainCT ajmitch siretart: ^^^ (should ~revu-uploaders be deleted?)
<hrw> geser: I am ignoring it but it took me 1h to find out why I got emails from launchpad abouting rejecting adding group XY to group ZD.
<hrw> geser: when I was never added directly either to XY or ZD one.
<AnAnt> Hello
<AnAnt> Laney: congrats !
<hrw> btw - can someone tell me did I got my PPU permissions or should I just check with dput?
<Laney> use the edit_acl.py line I gave you before
<hrw> Laney: it gives me python backtrace only
<Laney> doesn't look like it was applied
<Laney> you can poke someone on the TB to do it
<hrw> TB?
<Laney> tech board
<hrw> ok
<hrw> thx
<sladen> hrw: PPA?
<geser> sladen: PPU = Per-Package Upload rights != PPA
<nigelb> Laney: hi
<nigelb> The other day when I was fixing the FTBFS, I used the packaging guide.
<nigelb> I was inside the UDD thing, and I couldn't see the other options
<nigelb> The confusing bit was getting to see the main item before and after the item I was in.
<nigelb> I'd rather have the entire TOC on the left sidebar
<Laney> that would quickly get huge
<Laney> unless it collapsed the other sections or something
<Laney> anyway I think we use whatever sphinx gives us for this â maybe you could see if it's possible to change it?
<nigelb> yeah, I'm looking to see if I can have collapsed list of the TOC
<nigelb> Its not immediately apparent that the "Table of Contents" is clickable.  This is despite the fact that I use sphinx a lot.
<nigelb> Also, I'm thinking of having an activity to get all the FTBFS that are due to the as-need change, list them somewhere and blog about how they need fixing and folks interested can pop in here and ask for help.
<nigelb> This involves going through all the build logs, so I'd take some time to build that list :)
<Laney> sounds good
<Laney> you might be able to grep them a bit
<nigelb> ah, that might help.  My idea was to open all the build logs from the ftbfs page and look at their reason for failure
<Laney> I imagine downloading them can be scripted :-)
<nigelb> I believe, yes. I'll take a look when I get home. If I'm stuck I guess I can ask for help :)
<geser> nigelb: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/oneiric.csv might help you a little bit with this task, it contains one line for each package and failure type
<geser> as the linking error will affect all architectures looking into one logfile per package should be enough
<nigelb> geser: woah, yes! I could just filter out all the build failures that fails on archs and then pick up the i386 logs and compile the list :D
<siretart> Laney: I think RainCT should answer this. I think so, but I haven't looked at REVU implementation for quite some time now
<nigelb> *on all archs
<geser> nigelb: that file was meant as a source for "harvest" but I don't know if it ever was used
<nigelb> geser: ah!
<nigelb> geser: I was looking forward to a night of reading BeautifulSoup, this makes it simpler :)
<RainCT> Laney, siretart: Yeah, ~revu-uploaders isn't used for anything. I'm fine with removing it.
<Laney> RainCT: cool, (one of) you will have to do it then ;-)
<RainCT> Laney: done
<Laney> nice
<Laney> cheers
 * Laney enjoys cruft busting
<iulian> Of course you do. :)
 * Laney fluffles iulian 
 * Laney looks at haskell-pkg-graph.pdf
 * DktrKranz looks at it too
<Laney> so close!
<DktrKranz> \o/
<micahg> Laney: bdrung_ : instead of dropping syncpackage, can we rename it to fakesync?  it's very useful for that still
<Laney> when sync-in-soyuz comes it can just DTRT automatically
<micahg> Laney: even for fakesync?  cool
<Laney> doesn't it already detect that?
<micahg> bdrung_: I test built eclipse 3.6 on amd64  yesterday, can I sync it over from experimental
<micahg> Laney: synchelper doesn't allow it ATM, so they have to be done manually still, idk about sync-in-souyz
<Laney> I thought syncpackage did detect it, hmm
<micahg> Laney: no, it does, that's why I suggested the rename :)
<Laney> ah
<Laney> basically I think that it's not worth removing/renaming only to resurrect in the near future when sync-in-soyuz lands
<micahg> k, I didn't know that "feature" will be there as well
<Laney> makes sense to provide the same interface
<ScottK> If you've seen the LP blog post that mentioned 'derived distributions', that's the thing that will have the magic sync button.
<Laney> yep, all signs indicate it is close
<cjwatson> Laney: I don't think sync-in-soyuz will replace fakesync
<cjwatson> but it's true, having syncpackage do the API thing for sync-in-soyuz rather than having to go through the website would be a useful thing to do
<Laney> cjwatson: no I wasn't saying that â just that the 'syncpackage' tool will be able to detect what to do
<cjwatson> agreed
<Laney> one interface for (fake)syncing
<cjwatson> since the LP UI for it will (from what I've seen) be oriented around synchronising one distribution with another, more than around individual source packages
<cjwatson> I'd rather recommend that developers use the API for it, and then we can provide tools that advise on Ubuntu policy
<cjwatson> the LP UI will be more generic
<cjwatson> (so I think I'm agreeing with you, just verbosely)
<Laney> I wasn't thinking about the Launchpad UI at all (as I have no idea what that will be beyond what you've said)
<Laney> but it sounds like only a small part of this work is about 'syncing' as we know it
<Laney> ...lost my thread on this haskell update
 * Laney scrabbles around a bit
<cjwatson> I don't think it's secret or anything, but I don't have a screenshot
<cjwatson> you might be able to find it on staging.launchpad.net
<cjwatson> sorry, I mean dogfood
<cjwatson> https://dogfood.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+localpackagediffs
<cjwatson> usual disclaimers on use of dogfood.lp.net apply though, and I seriously doubt changes there go anywhere near the production database :)
<cjwatson> I gave bigjools lots of feedback at UDS; I don't know how much of it has been implemented
<evaluate> micahg, ping?
<micahg> evaluate: pong, I haven't forgotten about you :)
<evaluate> ok, wasn't sure if you've seen my previous message.
<micahg> evaluate: which one?
<evaluate> I was wondering because I've noticed that 1.4.0 has been merge to oneiric, but the patch hasn't been applied to natty, or does that just need a bit more time?
<micahg> evaluate: no, that's just waiting for me to upload which I'll do this week
<evaluate> ohh, ok. That was all, thank you! :-)
<micahg> evaluate: you're welcome, should be uploaded by wed at the latest
<evaluate> No hurry here, like I said I was just wondering and thought you may have forgotten about the natty SRU after upgrading oneiric.
<c_korn> can I simulate dpkg -i somehow?
<evaluate> Define simulate...
<jtaylor> c_korn: if you want to keep your system clean use a chroot
<c_korn> no, like apt-get -s install. I only want to see whether installation would fail or not
<paultag> c_korn: --dry-run
<paultag> or --simulate
<paultag> c_korn: check the man page, type "/simulate"
<c_korn> I already use a chroot but thanks for the tip
<paultag> c_korn: it's the first hit
<c_korn> oh, my bad. thanks.
<paultag> c_korn: no problem. good luck
<evaluate> paultag, hi :-)
 * paultag waves to evaluate 
<highvoltage> that sounds so meta
<ajmitch> highvoltage: hm?
<paultag> highvoltage: hehehehe
<highvoltage> (paultage waving to evaluate)
<paultag> highvoltage: How's things?
<highvoltage> paultag: good and you?
<paultag> highvoltage: not too shabby. Just moving home and stuff. Finally "settled", but my development machine is still offline :(
<paultag> so just hacking on the netbook while I figure out what to make a table out of
<paultag> I'm wicked in-and-out
<highvoltage> where did you move to?
<paultag> highvoltage: back home, from Ohio. I have one photo up on my fb if you want to check out the view
<Laney> bdrung_: can uupdate use (or get its own version of) DEBCHANGE_DISTRIBUTOR?
<Laney> it's a bit annoying to get 0ubuntu1
 * Laney hassles the new devscripts comaintainer :-)
<bdrung_> Laney: i think we should standardize it somehow. maybe DEB_VENDOR which can be overridden by --vendor=X or --debian or --ubuntu (same for dch)
<Laney> that would be better indeed
<bdrung_> Laney: the next item on my devscripts todo list is to merge the debchange changes in a sane way and make it usable for both targets
<bdrung_> Laney: the problem with debchange is that all short parameter are already taken (-d, -u)
<Laney> --distributor works fine for me now, not so fussed about a short name; I'd rather have a way to turn off all of the ubuntu specifics
<stgraber> bdrung_: I'm sure there's plenty of utf-8 chars that haven't been used yet ;)
<Laney> yes!
<Laney> dch -â¹
<stgraber> -â ? :)
<bdrung_> stgraber: ansi is preferred.
<bdrung_> how about -\n or --
<stgraber> \0 ?
<bdrung_> -\0 for Debian and -\1 for Ubuntu :D
<stgraber> yeah1
<stgraber> !
<paultag> dch -â¥
<bdrung_> paultag: impossible. some will say that this maps to --debian, but other to --ubuntu ;)
<stgraber> that's for --force right ? :)
<paultag> bdrung_: :)
<Laney> that's for --nmu
<paultag> Oh jeez. `dch -â'
<stgraber> doh, why is it always Debian who gets the fancy utf-8 options? (we'll have to introduce the concept of maintainers and NMU to Ubuntu then ...) :)
<paultag> I'm pretty sure â¥, â are both ASCII :)
<cjwatson> dch -â (look closely ...)
<paultag> cjwatson: that's a goodun :)
<paultag> thank the FSM for monospace fonts :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-31
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<hrw> hi
<hrw> what is a proper way to upload NEW package to ubuntu and get PPU for it?
<geser> sponsporing
<hrw> ok
<geser> LP only lets add PPU rights for existing source packages
<hrw> ok
<geser> so you have to find someone who does the first upload for you and once LP knows about the source package PPU rights can get added
<hrw> http://home.haerwu.biz/~hrw/ubuntu/ has my gcc-4.6-armel-cross 1.48 package. will try to find someone who will take a look at it and do uplaod for me
<evaluate> If the package isn't ubuntu specific, it would be best to upload it to Debian first and then request a sync though, wouldn't it?
<hrw> evaluate: for now it cant be uploaded into ubuntu
<hrw> evaluate: I have 6 packages which are on a way to Debian. this is one of them
<evaluate> I see.
<hrw> evaluate: have to convince Debian Kernel team first that my patch is really worth adding
<hrw> evaluate: https://wiki.linaro.org/MarcinJuszkiewicz/Projects/MergeCrossToolchainIntoDebian
<geser> hrw: as your PPU rights for gcc-4.6-armel-cross got approved together with with your other packages, you just need to find someone to do the initial upload and prod a TB member later to add the PPU rights for it
<hrw> geser: I will do that
<nigelb> geser: I talked to dholbach, we can do the whole activity inside harvest of getting the ftbfs marked appropriately.
<nigelb> I'm now making sure the data gets imported.  Harvest using the karmic csv unfortunately :/
<nigelb> dholbach: https://code.launchpad.net/~nigelbabu/harvest-data/fix-ftbfs-url/+merge/62960 :)
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/packaging-tutorial
<bdrung_> micahg: yeah, you can sync eclipse 3.6 from experimental
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: had a look at my udt todo list today, couldn't remember a few details so listened to the recording. Looks like our audio stream was just static :/
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: static?
<tumbleweed> white noise
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: do you have the url to it?
<tumbleweed> http://mirrors.tumbleweed.org.za/uds-o/2011-05-12-06-55-other-o-udt-upstreaming.ogg
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: one  todo item is to get the final names for http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/release-info.git
<tumbleweed> yup, that's what I'm busy writing an e-mail on
<bdrung_> that stream contains silence
<tumbleweed> yeah
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: so, IIRC, ftp-masters wanted it into devscripts, but now launchpad would like it to be a separate package, so we are asking derivatives front desk what it should be called?
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: yes
<achiang> fta: micahg: ping, i managed to build chromium 11 on lucid/ARM. the same package almost worked, just needed one minor change: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/615405/
<achiang> fta: micahg: need to add line 9 to debian/rules and then it builds
<fta> achiang, jpegturbo? it's already in the last upload
<fta> achiang, http://paste.ubuntu.com/615408/  but maybe micahg didn't merge it down
<achiang> fta: could entirely be my fault. i may not have grabbed the latest package. but the short fyi is that the package does indeed built on ARM
<fta> achiang, i'm more concerned about https://launchpadlibrarian.net/72379090/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-armel.chromium-browser_11.0.696.71~r86024-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<fta> achiang, 100% reproducible ld crashes on oneiric
<achiang> fta: ah, that might be the toolchain problem that micahg was worried about. i haven't had a chance to debug that one yet
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: thanks for the mail. the mail doesn't make it clear, that we are searching for a name for 'distro-info' script and library and not only for the package
<Laney> doesn't launchpad have its own API for getting that information?
<Laney> i.e. why would they want to use such a library?
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: care to reply then?
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: maybe after lunch
<tumbleweed> lunch at 6pm? :)
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: yes
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: i eat lunch between 12 and 23 o'clock
<tumbleweed> heh, us geeks aren't very good at sticking to normal schedules
<LaserJock> anybody know what this might mean when building a source package:
<LaserJock> dh clean --with python2,python3
<LaserJock> dh: unable to load addon python3: Can't locate Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/python3.pm
<cjwatson> missing build-dependency on (something that depends on) python3?
<LaserJock> I'll try python3-all and see if that works
<cjwatson> doesn't python policy prescribe a particular dependency?
<LaserJock> well, this thing has 4 python3 build dependencies
<LaserJock> I just need a source package out, so I was trying to install the minimum amount needed
<LaserJock> hmm, is debuild used still?
<LaserJock> I'm trying to build a natice source package and I get: dpkg-source: error: can't build with source format '3.0 (quilt)': no orig.tar file found
<LaserJock> shouldn't it create a .tar for me?
<micahg> LaserJock: should be 3.0 (native) if it's native
<LaserJock> hmm, ok
<LaserJock> well, maybe I'm going about this the wrong way
<LaserJock> I've got a bzr branch that I'm trying to make a source package from. I don't know if there is a orig.tar or not, I assumed it was native
<cjwatson> if it's non-native, you need to get the orig.tar somehow; either there's pristine-tar data on the branch to allow bzr to figure it out (there sometimes is) or else you have to fetch it independently
<cjwatson> the auto-importer deals with pristine-tar data, but that won't necessarily hold for branches people have assembled in other ways
<maxb> LaserJock: Generally 'bzr builddeb -S' (or just 'bzr bd -S') and let bzr-builddeb figure out what to do
<maxb> It's quite clever at retrieving necessary tarballs from whereever it can find them
<LaserJock> < grabbing bzr-builddeb >
<LaserJock> maxb: that seemed to work, I have no idea what it did but it spit out a source package :-)
<maxb> Early in the output it will have printed information on where it found an upstream tarball to ue
<maxb> *use
<maxb> Oh, and it will have done its temporary work in ../build-area/ ftr
<LaserJock> http://launchpad.net/python-distutils-extra/trunk/2.27/+download/python-distutils-extra-2.27.tar.gz
<LaserJock> what does that mean? it got it from the archives?
<maxb> That link points to an upstream project's download site, that just happens to be on launchpad
<LaserJock> oh, ok
<maxb> So, no, it didn't fetch it from the Ubuntu/Debian archive
<maxb> It may have asked uscan to locate a tarball based on the content of debian/watch
<LaserJock> it did, but said it couldn't find it
<LaserJock> oh, no
<LaserJock> it tried get-orig-source
<LaserJock> uscan worked
<micahg> achiang: thanks for testing chromium, I'll throw up builds tonight with that change
<achiang> micahg: np
<micahg> achiang: do you have systems where you can smoke test the binaries?
<micahg> I have natty set up ATM
<achiang> micahg: hm, i have lucid/armel systems to test on
<micahg> achiang: k, would you be willing to smoke test chromium armel?
<achiang> micahg: yes, i can do so
<achiang> micahg: just need you to ping me, please (unless there's a way to subscribe to a build or something)
<micahg> achiang: cool, thanks, I"ll ping when the builds are available
<achiang> micahg: great, thanks
<xdatap1> hi everybody
<xdatap1> just an info. The mail from Kate on the ubuntu-devel-announce@lists.ubuntu.com about soft freeze affects only main or also universe? I'm a newbie and I'm working on a merge, in case I'll wait next days
<micahg> xdatap1: anything seeded
<micahg> xdatap1: what package?
<xdatap1> micahg, it's dspam
<micahg> xdatap1: should be fine
<xdatap1> micahg, ok, thanks
<cjwatson> I think it's more accurate to say "anything that goes on CD images" rather than "anything seeded"
<cjwatson> (and probably clearer to most people)
<xdatap1> cjwatson, great thanks, now it's very clear :)
<cjwatson> though I need to correct myself, I should just say "images" to cover DVDs and such as well
<ScottK> Laney: Could you set up the transition tracker for the boost1.42 -> boost1.46 transition?  Bad is anything with *boost*1.42* in depends/build-depends.  Good is anything *boost* that's not !1.42 (i.e. either unversioned or using 1.46).
 * ajmitch hopes that not too many patches are needed for the transition
<cjwatson> ScottK: you have permissions to do it directly
<ScottK> cjwatson: Permissions but not knowing how.
<ScottK> (and I'm trying specifically to avoid learning it this week)
<cjwatson> fair enough
<Laney> I'll just use true for is_good for now.
<Laney> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/615544/ look ok?
<Laney> with the missing semicolon
<ajmitch> will the link to the transition tracker fit in the channel topic?
<ScottK> Laney: Looks reasonable.
<ScottK> Probably more important than something there.
<Laney> pushed
<ScottK> Where do I find it?
<Laney> updates at :55 IIRC
<ScottK> After that?
<Laney> at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ajmitch> ok, so I was even looking at the wrong URL
 * ajmitch should have read further in the thread
<Laney> heh
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-01
<ScottK> Laney: Nice.  Only 80.  Not so bad.
<freeflying> persia: ping
<ajmitch> ScottK: what's the recommended change for the boost transition? switch from 1.42 to 1.46 in build-depends, or unversioned?
<broder> can we safely just swap out 1.42 for 1.46? didn't the interface for boost::filesystem change ~completely between those two versions?
 * micahg is curious as well since he has a FTBFS to fix
<ajmitch> http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_46_1/libs/filesystem/v3/doc/index.htm implies that the earlier API can still be used for now
<broder> ajmitch: right, but 1.46 defaults to the new API
<broder> i guess all the changes should break the build
<ajmitch> broder: yep, default changes, but it looks to be possible to just use the single define to change it, rather than having to port to the new API to get things to build
<broder> ah, i see. yeah, that's true
<broder> though honestly i don't think adjusting for the API changes should be difficult, especially for linux-specific apps that wouldn't use std::wstring
<dholbach> good morning
<micahg> Laney: when you get a chance, could you please set up a transition for libnotify1 -> libnotify4, bad is depends on libnotify1 or b-d on libnotify4-dev, thanks :)
<nigelb> dholbach: I might want to link someone to a particular set of harvest filters.  Is that possible currently?
<dholbach> nigelb, it is, you need to fiddle with the url a little bit - just have a look at the url the filter links send you to
<dholbach> nigelb, there's a couple of bugs filed about making that easier and more consistent
<dholbach> dylan mccall is the best person to answer the questions
<nigelb> dholbach: okay :)
<Laney> micahg: it'd be easier if you can propose a merge or give me the .ben file â otherwise I might be able to look in 10 hours time or so
<Laney> I wonder why the desktop team aren't caring about this transition
<nigelb> Ok, so http://harvest.ubuntu.com/ now has all the build failures from oneiric ftbfs page
<blackmoon-105> in a package build, for include modifications, is better use a "debian/patch" folder or a *.diff.gz file?
<blackmoon-105> no one?
<soren> debian/patches
<blackmoon-105> soren: ok thanks
<blackmoon-105> soren: but *.diff.gz is deprecated?
<soren> blackmoon-105: .diff.gz is the format used for uploading to the archive. It's probably not something you should be dealing with directly.
<Laney> It's not 'deprecated', but it's generally considered cleaner (if a matter of personal taste and workflow) to use a patch system such as quilt to manage changes to the upstream source.
<Laney> (fwiw, those patches will still end up in the .diff.gz if there is one, but they will be easier to read)
<blackmoon-105> soren: so if i must add extra headers in the source code, i must use "debian/patch", right?
<blackmoon-105> Laney: ^
<Laney> it's not 'must', but 'would be a good idea to'
<blackmoon-105> Laney: ok, thank you :)
<jtaylor> anyone have a oneiric powerpc available? what does: python -c "import Tkinter; print Tkinter.__version__" output?
<jtaylor> python2.7
<micahg> Laney: ok, will try to propose a merge, idk, maybe they haven't noticed yet, thanks
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: $Revision$
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: k thx there seems to something wrong with it on powerpc then
<tumbleweed> (powerpc sort-of works with qemu-user)
<jtaylor> (matplotlib fails to build because of this)
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: what does python2.6 say?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: $Revision: 73770 $
<jtaylor> is probably related to the -rc1 of python 2.7
<jtaylor> th
<tumbleweed> should I try a rebuild?
<jtaylor> no I get the same "wrong" output on amd64 now
<tumbleweed> ok
<jtaylor> the amd64 matplotlib build was done before -rc1 went into oneric
<jtaylor> powerpc build was delayed a few days
<jtaylor> will probably be fixed when 2.7.2 is final, then it should be rebuilt
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: you sure? it looks like an svn substitution, and python moved to hg
<jtaylor> it did?
<jtaylor> so its a upstream bug
<tumbleweed> barry: ^
<jtaylor> but matplotlib should probably not use the subsitution anyway
<tumbleweed> matplotlib should probably not care about that version so much, unless there is good need. But providing a useful __version__ isn't exactly a bad idea
<blackmoon-105> how can i add an extra directory (with files) using quilt? I've tried but i've got thiseoor:  " cp: omitting directory `headers-extra/' "
<jtaylor> blackmoon-105:  are you using cp -r ?
<jtaylor> ah no I see the problem
<blackmoon-105> jtaylor: yes because i can't pass -r parameter to cp throught quilty
<jtaylor> quilt add dir/*
<blackmoon-105> jtaylor: great it works! thank you
<micahg> blackmoon-105: why would add a whole directory as a patch?
<blackmoon-105> micahg: because i need to include extra headers which are all in a directory
<cody-somerville> nhandler, Hey. What do you use to do your web UI mockups?
<psusi> is there a better way for multiple forked children to use a mutex than sysV semaphores?
<paultag> psusi: you should be able to use a mutex accross many threads
<paultag> psusi: why were you thinking semaphores?
<paultag> is there something in the critical section that needs that?
<paultag> I can't imagine
<jtaylor> hes talking about forks not threads
<paultag> jtaylor: sorry, misread
<paultag> carry on
<jtaylor> unfortunatly I have no answer :/
<psusi> aye... have a process that forks a few children and need to serialize a critical section
<paultag> IMHO forks suck for this
<paultag> but that's just me
<paultag> the whole not-sharing-memory thing can be a female dog
<psusi> there we go... mmap() + sem_init()
<psusi> MAP_SHARED
<nhandler> cody-somerville: I'm using Balsamiq (link in my blog post). Jono recommended it to me (he used it for his LoCo Portal mockup). You also (depending on what you want to use it for) might qualify for a free key for it
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-02
<micahg> persia: cool, looks like the DMB MOTUs having upload rights to everything will be fixed shortly, http://blog.launchpad.net/coming-features/team-owner-no-longer-implies-team-member
<lifeless> micahg: thats deployed
<micahg> lifeless: oh, cool, was just quoting the blog WRT soon :)
<lifeless> micahg: but not to the uploader service
<lifeless> micahg: see the blog comments ;)
<micahg> silly RSS feed...
<micahg> lifeless: oh, are there plans to apply it to uploaders as well?
<lifeless> micahg: the upload service isn't high availability
<lifeless> micahg: the code change will affect it when the next deploy is done to those boxes - probably soon, but definitely by june 8th
<micahg> lifeless: ah, ok, coo
<micahg> *cool
<lifeless> right now the change may prevent uploads, but it would detect it at queue processing rather than sftp/ftp time
<micahg> ximion1: not sure about xmllint, we have the same version as sid, last time I had an issue like this, it was something in the build script
<ximion1> micahg, this is really a weird thing, because this error really appears only with LPs buildds
<micahg> ximion: idk, maybe one of the DDs here would know why xmllint behaves different in Ubuntu and Debian
<ximion> micahg, if it's the same package it should do the same...
<ximion> but there's always something which could go wrong
 * micahg tries to dig up the upload which had the issue
<ximion> micahg: thanks! If there's anything where I can help, just ping me :)
<ximion> you might also want to take a look at bug #779148
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 779148 in packagekit-gnome (Ubuntu) "Removal request for packagekit-gnome from Oneiric" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779148
<ximion> the gnome-packagekit of debian will remove the old packagekit-gnome binary package if someone tries to install it at the same time.
<ximion> (the bug above was ACKed already, but nothing happened then :P)
<ximion> so, I really need to go to bed (it's 3 in the morning here...)
<ximion> i'll be back tomorrow
<micahg> ximion: the archive admins are a little behind on package removal, they'll catch up soon :)
<micahg> ximion: good night
<ximion> micahg, ah, okay - I just want to mention this before you stumble upon it.
<ximion> thanks!
<ximion> gn8
<psusi> does it take a day or something for the mail forward @ubuntu.com to start working after being added to universe-contributors?
<psusi> or is there something I have to do to activate it?
<stgraber> psusi: last time I heard about it, it was some cronjob running once a day
<broder> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuEmail
<xdatap1> micahg, hello
<xdatap1> micahg, hello! Thanks for the quick answer. My debdiff is attached to bug #791950
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791950 in clipit (Ubuntu) "Please merge clipit 1.4.1-1 (universe) from debian unstable" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791950
<xdatap1> micahg, I'm going to have dinner. Thanks in advance :)
<evaluate> micahg, also, if you want to keep the same monochrome look for ubuntu in oneiric, you might want to change the default icon to something like: http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=141013
<evaluate> I can submit a wishlist for that if you want me to.
<micahg> evaluate: why not make the change upstream if the icon is better?
<evaluate> micahg, the default gnome icon theme is quite colorful, so I'm not sure this icon would fit with it.
<evaluate> For example in Debian.
<micahg> evaluate: ah, ok, would you be open to handling it with dpkg-vendor in the Debian pacakge?
 * micahg wants to minimize the diff
<evaluate> Sure.
<evaluate> If I do this change before the featurefreeze, the changes should be good for it making it in, right?
<evaluate> (I'm pretty busy with exams for the next month)
<micahg> evaluate: sure, no rush
<evaluate> ok then, I'll do it in the Debian package, and request a sync when it's ready.
<micahg> evaluate: well, only a sync if you add the appindicator part as a control.in as well :)
<evaluate> Talked about that on debian-devel and they said it's considered a RC bug to change the build-depends on build-time, so I'd rather not.
<micahg> evaluate: oh right, you can't do that, I keep forgetting...
<micahg> evaluate: you can make it changeable at upload time so that all that needs to be done is regenerate the control file
<micahg> so, I guess no sync for the forseeable future unless appindicator gets in Debian
<evaluate> micahg, sorry, not sure how I could make it changeable at upload time...
<micahg> evaluate: regenerate debian/control in the clean rule
<micahg> I think
 * micahg goes digging for info
<micahg> yeah, it's mentioned in the comments here: http://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/09/27/different-dependencies-between-debian-and-ubuntu-but-common-source-package/
<evaluate> That seems to only apply to 'Depends:' and not 'Build-Depends:' though.
<ScottK> Another option is to package the library for Debian ...
<ScottK> (just saying)
<evaluate> ScottK, AFAIK there is already ongoing work regarding packaging of the ayatana 'suite' in Debian.
<ScottK> Yes.  There's a team doing it.  I'm sure they'd love more help.
<micahg> evaluate: build-depends would require a separate upload still, but just a new source package would be created (i.e. dch -i, *Sync on Debian)
<micahg> yeah, what ScottK says would obviously be best :)
<evaluate> ScottK, I'm pretty busy currently, but I'll see if I can help soon.
<evaluate> Although, tbqh I don't like ayatana very much.
<micahg> SpamapS: mongodb for natty should just be ported to mozjs185 I think...we need to do it for oneiric first though
<SpamapS> micahg: is that trivial?
<micahg> SpamapS: well, idk, I don't think it's too bad (probably <100 lines)
<micahg> and we get to drop the hack
<SpamapS> +1 for that. :)
<SpamapS> did the hack get dropped in natty tho?
<SpamapS> otherwise how would he see the missing lib he saw?
<micahg> SpamapS: no, there's already a bug though for the actual problem
<SpamapS> ah
<micahg> SpamapS: bug 791672
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791672 in mongodb (Ubuntu) "mongodb wont start in 11.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791672
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-03
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> ARGH
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/ghc.html
<Laney> I should have predicted this :( :( :(
 * Laney mashes the keyboard in irritation
<jpds> For a second there, I read tradition.
<Laney> when you maintain GHC it does become rather traditional, indeed
<geser> Laney: do ghc transitions ever end?
<Laney> this one was about to
<Laney> and then I uploaded GHC again last night
<geser> I have the impression that at least one package on any arch has always a wrong dependency and needs a rebuild
<Laney> imagine yourself travelling around a circle :-0
<Laney> :-)*
 * DktrKranz patpats Laney 
 * Laney shelters underneath DktrKranz 
<Laney> you have the power of 'wb nmu'
<DktrKranz> nope
<Laney> 'you' as in 'debian'
<Laney> makes such frustrations go away somewhat :P
<DktrKranz> definitely
<DktrKranz> wasn't "rebuild package" button in progress?
<Laney> not that i've heard
<geser> DktrKranz: not "rebuild package" but a "sync package" button is worked on
<Laney> https://dogfood.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+localpackagediffs
<DktrKranz> cool
<geser> yes, really interesting
<Ekx> Vortexirc looks for linux/chat interested people, if you want to join irc.vortexirc.com 6667  see ya :D
<Laney> don't do that
<micahg> broder: regarding seamonkey, we'll need to push 2.1 when it's released to the stable releases, so idk if an SRU is worthwhile
<micahg> 2.1 uses the newer hunspell
<broder> oh, really? yeah, in that case it doesn't seem like it makes much sense to keep working
<micahg> yeah, the 3.5 branch which seamonkey 2.0 is based on will be EOL on June 21, so there will be no more releases for it
 * micahg probably should've commented on that bug
<micahg> bdrung: I never got an answer about syncing eclipse from experimental, I did a test build on amd64 on oneiric and it was fine, I would do one more with i386 before requesting the sync since i386 failed before with gcc-4.6
<andersk> What went wrong there?  Shouldnât it be possible to change ghcâs debian/control without breaking all the ABI hashes?
<KNRO> Hi. I'm stuck with updating a package. I've already uploaded the .orig.tar.gz (2.3) version to ppa, and I later discovered there was a missing dependency, so I edited debian/control, but I can't reupload the .diff.gz file because the same version of the diff file (2.3) was uploaded and launchpad won't accept same version but different content.
<KNRO> and if I pump the number in debian/changelog, I can't seem to get an updated .diff.gz (to 2.3ppa1 for example), I have to rename the orig file 2.3ppa1 as well which is wrong
<KNRO> so how do I fix that, what am I doing wrong?
<jtaylor> upload without the orig source
<broder> KNRO: it sounds like you've done a handful of things wrong
<micahg> KNRO: you should use a debian revision (i.e. 2.3-0ppa1
<jtaylor> debuild -sa
<broder> KNRO: first, if this isn't a "Debian/Ubuntu-native package" - i.e. the software meaningfully exists outside of Debian/Ubuntu, you should add a Debian revision number, like micahg said
<KNRO> it's not native to Debian/Ubuntu
<broder> but also, while you're experimenting in PPAs, you should add something to the version number - something like ~ppa1 - that leaves you room to change the version number in your PPA
<broder> KNRO: right, so the version of the Debian package shouldn't be "2.3", it should be "2.3-0ubuntu1"
<broder> then you add on the PPA tag (so "2.3-0ubuntu1~ppa1")
<KNRO> okay, and the .orig filename is then what?
<KNRO> 2.3.orig.tar.gz ? or 2.3-0ubuntu1.tar.gz ??
<jtaylor> the furst
<jtaylor> s/u/i/
<KNRO> so if the orig file was foo_2.3.orig.tar.gz and my debian version is 2.3-0ubuntu1~ppa1, I can't run debuild -sd or -sa or any combination without renaming the .orig file!!!
<KNRO> But the .orig file name should remain the same!!
<micahg> KNRO: what does debian/source/format say if anything?
<KNRO> I see ... dpkg-source: warning: no source format specified in debian/source/format, see dpkg-source(1)
<KNRO> guess that's my problem...
<micahg> KNRO: that's the debian version set in debian/changelog?
<KNRO> in debian/changelog I have 2.3-0ubuntu1~ppa1
<Laney> if it can't find the orig then you'll get a native package
<KNRO> there is no source/format under debian
<Laney> don't worry about that
<KNRO> how do I tell it to look for foo_2.3.orig.tar.gz then?
<KNRO> and take the diff from that?
<Laney> show us the complete output from 'debuild -S' please :-)
<KNRO> ok
<KNRO> here http://pastebin.com/cE3xGsyj
<Laney> ls ../libapogee2_2.3.orig.tar.gz
<broder> KNRO: dpkg-source is using the version number 2.3ubuntu1~ppa1, not 2.3-0ubuntu1~ppa1
<broder> the hyphen is critical
<KNRO> Laney: yes it exists... ?
<Laney> yeah, you need to fix that version :-)
<KNRO> ohhhhh
<KNRO> 2.3 then hypthen
<KNRO> okay let me try
<KNRO> it worked!! Thanks guys, this was driving me insane
<KNRO> another question, if I have a package already built in maverick, and I want to build it for natty ppa, is it possible to build without updating the changelog file?
<Laney> no
<Laney> you can't have different binaries from the same revision
<KNRO> even for different distributions?
<Sarvatt> you can binary copy it from maverick to natty in the PPA without changing the versions but thats usually a bad idea and can't rebuild it that way
<Laney> actually it's often not a bad idea
<Laney> that's what happens for new ubuntu series after all
<KNRO> I'll just update the changelog file and do it the easy way
<Laney> try copying the binaries and see if it works
<bdrung> micahg: i answer yesterday or so. the answer was: yes, please sync it.
<micahg> bdrung: ah, sorry, must have missed it, xchat doesn't always tell me when I have a message waiting, thanks, will do over the weekend
<bdrung> micahg: np. i would have done it yesterday if requestsync wouldn't crash
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-04
<CarlFK> where are packaging scripts usually stored in relation to the source code repository?  like if I wanted to package http://code.google.com/p/jujuutils/ would I check out it out, add debian/*, create a repo on lp and push it all there?
<CarlFK> or just push debian/* and have a reference to the rev of http://code.google.com/p/jujuutils
<MattJ> Hi all, I can't find anywhere docs on the process for getting a security update uploaded to the archive... pointers?
<MattJ> Oh wait, I think I found it a few links further down the track :)
<sladen> MattJ: file a bug, attach a patch, get it sponsored by the security-team
<MattJ> Ok, thanks
<sladen> CarlFK: check it out.  Add your the  debian/  directory.    debuild -S   and upload
<sladen> CarlFK: (you could of course keep the combined result in git aswell and merge from new upstream versions
<CarlFK> sladen: I know I could.. I am wondering if there is a convention.
<sladen> CarlFK: many conventions :-)  The only thing in-common is the  debuild -S  and  dput ppa:...  step :)
<CarlFK> i guess dput does store the source. and changelog has enough commit history/comments.  hmm.
<sladen> CarlFK: well, one causes the output of a "source package" and the other uploads that to LP
<sladen> CarlFK: those steps can be done manually with lots of low-level commands (eg. FTP), but it's a massive hassle
<CarlFK> sladen: yeah, I was more thinking of them like compile and post a binary.
<sladen> CarlFK: the system does the building for you
<Laney> anyone fancy doing a bunch of no-change rebuilds? ;)
<Laney> good for your karma...
 * ScottK bets Laney has a fence that needs whitewashing too.
<Laney> there /is/ a pile of washing up in the kitchen :-)
 * Laney writes a script instead
<X3lectric> so go do it
<X3lectric> its great for your karma
<Laney> what?
<X3lectric> what or why?
<ScottK> http://www.pbs.org/marktwain/learnmore/writings_tom.html <-- for those unfamiliar with the whitewashing a fence story (caution: archaic language)
 * X3lectric slaps ScottK around a bit with a large trout
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-05
<kaushal> micahg: hi
<kaushal> can someone please guide me about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-June/245771.html
<micahg> kaushal: that's a question for #ubuntu
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> micahg: Any ideas ?
<micahg> kaushal: I'll answer in #ubuntu
<kaushal> sure
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: yay, I was just about to ask you about doing another vtk transition :)
<fabrice_sp> Hey tumbleweed! :-)
<fabrice_sp> I was going to check which packages are still using vtk 5.4, but if you already have the list, that's great!
<tumbleweed> it's only a handful. Laney: care to set up a tracker? libvtk5.4 -> 5.6
<Laney> could you propose a merge? :-)
 * tumbleweed supposes he could
 * Laney is trying to encourage people to learn the syntax
<tumbleweed> the syntax is pretty straight forward
<Laney> actually ou don't even need to propose a merge
<Laney> yes, quite
<tumbleweed> Laney: +junk branches arne't really amenable to merging...
<Laney> 'propose' in an informal sense, then
<Laney> but no need: just do it directly
<Laney> we ought to get a better branch really
<tumbleweed> I think with the new permission model I'd have to join the team first
<tumbleweed> owners != members
<Laney> the intention was that the RT be able to manipulate it
<Laney> so that's fine
 * Laney is too busy playing with olduse.net to be useful :-)
<tumbleweed> Laney: a readme file with a list of build-deps would be handy :)
 * tumbleweed supposes he can write it now
<Laney> from my history I can see I had at least ocaml-nox libocamlgraph-ocaml-dev libpcre-ocaml-dev libocsigen-ocaml-dev menhir
<Laney> s/had/installed/
<tumbleweed> yup
<paissad> hello guys, i would like to use an environment variable during the run of the start-stop-daemon command !
<paissad> start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --background --oknodo \
<paissad>         --exec $DAEMON -- $DAEMON_OPTS
<paissad> the env var is XXX
<paissad> i did read the manpage of start-stop-daemon, but unless i did not read carefully, i don't see anything related to env vars
<paissad> i'm not really sure that doing "export $XXX" before the use of 'start-stop-daemon' is a good idea
<paissad> how should i proceed ?
<Laney> you can do VARIABLE=value start-stop-daemon ...
<tumbleweed> Laney, fabrice_sp: that was relatively painless: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/vtk.html
<Laney> tumbleweed: yay, nice one
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, nice one, yes!
<fabrice_sp> binariy packages are still in NEW, so better wait before uploading packages for that transition :-)
<tumbleweed> of course, need them to get through NEW (and armel building) first
<fabrice_sp> armel is at 37% after 7 hours...
 * Laney clogs up the buildds some more ;)
<micahg> Laney: I think you're fine, they're pretty empty ATM
<Laney> yep, I have the whole of i386 now :)
<Laney> +amd64
<paissad> i have a problem about a makefile, i don't know how to set a variable into the IF statement
<paissad> here is the related target from my MakeFile http://pastebin.com/JQ7Scdw7
<paissad> at line 7, i expected an echo of "HEAD" ... but i have nothing onto the terminal
<paissad> and you can see at line 6 that i did SVN_REVISION="HEAD";
<paissad> what am i doing wrong ? ... how must i set that variable ?
<paissad> here is the output http://pastebin.com/NjN3T9WN
<geser> paissad: I'm not fully sure but my guess would be that you set a shell variable in line 6 but access a Makefile one in line 7
<paissad> geser, finally, i did something like this
<paissad> ifeq ($(USE_STABLE), true)
<paissad>     DOWNLOAD_SITE := http://ps3mediaserver.googlecode.com/svn/tags/$(TAG_VERSION)
<paissad>     SVN_REVISION := HEAD
<paissad> endif
<paissad> outside of any kind of target
<paissad> and i also removed the check-if-use-stable target which no more needed
<geser> here you set a Makefile variable
<paissad> indeed
<geser> your line 6 from that paste is part of a subshell execution ('echo "$$SVN_REVISION"' might work in line 7, not sure if () are needed or not)
<paissad> ok
<m4n1sh> I am having issues building a package. The packaging code has been provided by gilir and the error is here
<m4n1sh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/619350/
<m4n1sh> the code is present here
<m4n1sh> I think there is some screwed up rules file
<m4n1sh> anyone can help?
<geser> m4n1sh: is mozilla-devscripts in Build-Depends?
<m4n1sh> geser: it is there
<m4n1sh> but I am using debuild
<m4n1sh> so I need to isntall mozilla-devscripts right
<m4n1sh> I missed that part
<m4n1sh> thanks'
<geser> do you have it also installed?
<geser> yes, you need it installed for calling the clean target (but you might don't need to have all build dependencies installed to build the source package)
<m4n1sh> didnt have it installed
<m4n1sh> but debhelper might need the xul-ext addon
<m4n1sh> right?
<micahg> m4n1sh: mozilla-devscripts provides dh_xul-ext
<m4n1sh> geser: did that. Works :)
<m4n1sh> micahg: yes. works
<m4n1sh> I was not able to make out from which package that addon comes from
<micahg> m4n1sh: apt-file search dh_xul-ext should've helped
<m4n1sh> micahg: thanks for the tip
<geser> m4n1sh: or you search on packages.ubuntu.com for files named "xul_ext.pm" (see your failure message)
<m4n1sh> hmm
<m4n1sh> never ever tried doing searches for files on p.u.c
<m4n1sh> only tried package name search
<geser> "Search the contents of packages" on that page
<m4n1sh> hmm. Thanks
<m4n1sh> learnt a lot :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-28
<jtaylor> I'm gone nuke all recommends on blcr-dkms, I'm feed up of deduping the bugs
<jtaylor> how could I solve the upgrade issue of users having openmpi installed?
<jtaylor> I guess only lucid is of concern, the other upgrades have probably weeded out the package already as its broken since natty
<directhex> what's wrong with openmpi?
<jtaylor> that it recommends blcr
<jtaylor> which recommends blcr-dkms
<jtaylor> which only works with 2.6.30 kernels
<jtaylor> there are hundreds of upgrade failure bugs
<jtaylor> even though I added a bug pattern in natty :/
<jtaylor> every week or two another bug makes it through
<directhex> blcr-dkms should be more sensitive to kernel versions. i'm sure you can define a range in dkms
<jtaylor> I never dealt with dkms yet
<jtaylor> hm dkms failures do not harm installation, silencing it in apport directly should be enough then
<tumbleweed> erm, silencing the bug reports presumably wouldn't make the situation any better. Then we wouldn't even know that we'd forgotten to update/remove it
<jtaylor> we already have the bug with the most dupes in the archive to remind us
<tumbleweed> right, I mean in future releases
<jtaylor> nice we have an ubuntu only openmpi1.5, I wonder when that will start to bitrot
<jtaylor> added in precise with an depend on blcr  which never worked in precise
<jtaylor> yey testing
<tumbleweed> :/
<Daviey> openmpi1.5 was added for ARM support, i assume you have validated that blcr doesn't work with ARM?
<jtaylor> does arm have a 2.6.30 kernel?
<jtaylor> hm I think -12 even supports 2.6.34
<jtaylor> Daviey: does blcr work without the kernel module? if yes dropping the recommend would solve a lot of issues for users
<rbasak> Daviey: hello!
<Daviey> rbasak: meet jtaylor.. he's looking at openmpil(1.5)
<jamespage> Daviey, hey
<rbasak> hello jtaylor!
<jtaylor> hi
<Daviey> rbasak: context, http://pb.daviey.com/Usz2/
<jtaylor> issues is bug 804943
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804943 in blcr (Ubuntu) "blcr kernel module failed to build with kernel 3.0 : configure: error: --with-linux argument '3.0-x' is neither a kernel version string nor a full path" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804943
<jtaylor> people installing openmpi get blcr which pulls blcr-dkms which is broken
<jtaylor> given the number of dumplicates and comments users do not know how to deal with that
<Daviey> a reasonable amount of dupes :)
<rbasak> I've not seen this before
<jtaylor> I guess openmpi works fine without blcr, so we could just drop the recommends from libcr0 and less users would get this ugly bug
<rbasak> See bug 949044 for what I tested. IIRC, I tried this on amd64 and didn't run into the problem you describe.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 949044 in openmpi (Ubuntu) "Basic openmpi hello world fails on arm" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/949044
<rbasak> Perhaps I understand it wrong?
<jtaylor> the issue is not really openmpi1.5, other mpi implementations also depend on blcr
<Daviey> I've not looked into it.. but i wonder if a Pre-Depends or Breaks is required.
<rbasak> Steps to reproduce? Just apt-get install...what?
<jtaylor> apt-get install blcr-dkms
<rbasak> No for the openmpi breakage. What are people trying that pulls in blcr? Sorry I can't see the LP bug - timeout
<jtaylor> libcr0
<jtaylor> recommends blcr-dkms
<jtaylor> most uses autoinstall recommends
<rbasak> So they're installing what which pulls in libcr0?
<jtaylor> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1011215/
<rbasak> Sorry, it would help if I could actually see the bug :-/
<jtaylor> its got so many dupes lp probably can'T deal with it ;)
<rbasak> Do we have to fix bugs that we can't see? :-P
<jtaylor> really fixing it will be hard, upstream only supports 2.6.38
<jtaylor> https://ftg.lbl.gov/projects/CheckpointRestart/
<jtaylor> what I want to archive is to reduce the collateral damage, I don't think many users really need blcr-dkms but get it installed indirectly
<rbasak> I can't see the whole picture right now, but it sounds to me like blcr is out of date and should be removed from Debian, and that anything that depends on it needs to be fixed
<jtaylor> it probably will be removed from debian
<jtaylor> if not fix turns up soon
<jtaylor> but that doesn't help our current situation
<rbasak> openmpi1.5 is a temporary "fork" of debian experimental, for people who wanted the ARM support it has. As soon as Debian transitions to openmpi 1.5, the plan is to drop openmpi1.5.
<jtaylor> good
<rbasak> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2012-April/006245.html
<jtaylor> I didn't want to imply bad maintenace, its just that so much ubuntu only stuff tends to just bitrot especially complicated stuff like openmpi is hard to handly by motu
<jtaylor> do does anyone see an issue with just removing libcr0's recommend on blcr-dkms?
<jtaylor> it should not break anything but save users from an error they might not know how to deal with
<rbasak> I understand. For openmpi, I'm here to help. Some Canonical partners wanted it for ARM support, and so I'm indirectly sponsored to look after it AIUI.
<rbasak> I don't see a problem with it, especially as it's broken already anyway, from what I understand.
<jtaylor> k I'll do that then for quantal and precise
<rbasak> thanks!
<jtaylor> lucid upgraders will still get the bug
<jtaylor> not sure how to handle that, removing the recommend in lucid will only help for new installs
<jtaylor> and -dkms might actually work in lucid
<rbasak> Is this kind of knowledge something that do-release-upgrade is supposed to take care of?
<rbasak> (and if so, how does that work for universe?)
<jtaylor> maybe adding a breaks to the linux package would get it removed in the upgrade?
<rbasak> I think that's what Daviey was suggesting?
<rbasak> It seems a bit horrible though. I'm new to this stuff. Is it possible for us to remove the blcr-dkms package as an exception to Debian?
<jtaylor> the other option is just silence apport, the module build failure does not harm the upgrade process itself
<jtaylor> removing blcr-dkms will not help on upgrades
<jtaylor> also it might be useful to some users who install their own kernels, this is the reason its still in debian for now
<rbasak> I'm just learning this here. Why would it not help with upgrades? If the package is gone and no other packages recommend it, wouldn't do-release-upgrade remove it?
<geser> Laney: is ghc (from quantal) not working on armel: every haskell-* build on armel seem to fail with "Error: selected processor does not support ARM mode `movw r3,:lower16:stg_CAF_BLACKHOLE_info'" (and more similar ones)
<Laney> geser: /every/ build?
<jtaylor> upgrades to not remove packages
<rbasak> My upgrades always do!
<jtaylor> it might be a user installed package
<Laney> geser: maybe ghc itself needs rebuilding (probably syncing) to use the armel toolchain changes
<jtaylor> hm I'm not very familiar with upgrade procedures either
<geser> Laney: looks like, just pick some random haskell-* armel build logs to see yourself
<jtaylor> I though they only remove obsolete libraries
<Laney> geser: I saw it for haskell-text and assumed the rest flowed from that
<Laney> didn't look too deep
<rbasak> That's what I'm thinking. What qualifies as an obsolete library, and wouldn't blcr-dkms fall into this category?
<Laney> anyway, you can build-test and sync if you like
<tumbleweed> rbasak: we also can't remove packages from stable releases
<geser> Laney: I don't have an armel pbuilder for easy checking
<rbasak> I didn't think we'd need to. What upgrade are we trying to fix here? An upgrade to Quantal, or an upgrade to something previous? Are you suggesting removing the Suggests in an SRU?
<rbasak> s/Suggest/Recommends/
<tumbleweed> upgrades from lucid to precise
<Laney> geser: I wouldn't worry about that. If it builds on whatever you have then we can sync it and see if it fixes armel on the buildds.
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: urgh, at removing the recommends from libcr0, but yes, that sounds like the sane option here
<Laney> that or ask someone in #-arm to test for us
<tumbleweed> rbasak: yes, he's suggesting doing an SRU
<Daviey> Laney: Are there still no ARM MOTU porter boxes?
<Laney> no
<geser> Laney: I'll test build on amd64 and sync, it can't get worse for armel :) (I hope this doesn't start a new GHC transition)
<Laney> it will
<Laney> but we're pretty much in one anyway
<tumbleweed> there are no MOTU porter boxes at all
<Laney> the C arm porterbox is down too
<Daviey> Scott was setting that up, he's had the hardware at least 18 months
<jtaylor> filed bug 1005524
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1005524 in blcr (Ubuntu) "remove recommends on blcr-dkms" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1005524
<jtaylor> uploaded to quantal and precise
<rbasak> thanks!
<Laney> jbicha: hey, any reason you didn't mark the arduino-mk rdep of arduino as tested?
<jbicha> Laney: because I didn't test it, since arduino-mk seemed too difficult for me to use
<Laney> ok
<tumbleweed> bdrung: do we really need --vendor= and DEBCHANGE_VENDOR in devscripts? What's wrong with simply exporting DEB_VENDOR?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: on that topic, on the plane to UDS I did some devscripts back-merging. It's incomplete, though, and still needs further tidying up http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=users/stefanor/devscripts.git
<tumbleweed> plus I want to figure out how necessary all those ubuntu-specific dch options are
<geser> Laney: the same error when building ghc on armel :( https://launchpadlibrarian.net/106320724/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-armel.ghc_7.4.1-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i want one command line parameter to set the vendor. DEBCHANGE_VENDOR could be dropped as compromise
<bdrung> tumbleweed: do you have some changes in the pipe for dch using distro-info?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can you implement following: if no vendor is specified on the command line, try to determine the vendor based on the given distribution
<Laney> geser: well, armel has now broken both ghc and mono for q
<tumbleweed> bdrung: you'll see some distro-info patches included in that branch
<tumbleweed> Laney: \o/ :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can you refresh your patches against master head?
<tumbleweed> yeah must do that
<bdrung> tumbleweed: or i can review the changes and let you commit them directly
<bdrung> tumbleweed: you can commit part 2 of 2880f1a67 directly
<bdrung> tumbleweed: and 304f973
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I was intending to break them up into clearly defined and standalone patches. But in the end, it got a bit messy and there are later commits fixing mistakes in earlier ones. And it's all largely untested
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i have some tests in the pipe
<tumbleweed> I want to wave the substvar stuff by the other devscripts maintainers. It's a fairly invasive packaging change
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i have some time _now_ and want to get the changes into devscripts. what workflow do you suggest?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the subvars stuff didn't convinced me yet
<tumbleweed> we could also just wait for archive-reorg :P
<tumbleweed> right now, I need to get a chicken into the oven, so you have half an hour to do whatever you want :)
<tumbleweed> feel free to push any of that into master if you like the look of it
<bdrung> tumbleweed: may i merge some of your changes under my name?
<tumbleweed> sure, it's not like it's my original work. I was just extracting ubuntu changes
<bdrung> k
<tumbleweed> (well, much of it)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: ping me after dinner and you will get a status update
<bdrung> tumbleweed: pushed. afk for 2h
<tumbleweed> bdrung: thanks
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: where's that ubuntu conflicts page that shows packages with conflicing files again?
<MrChrisDruif> Good evening all. How are dependencies determined for packages like epiphany-extensions?
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: http://conflictchecker.ubuntu.com/possible-conflicts/ (according to qa.ubuntuwire.org)
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: thanks (and sorry for the random bother)
<tumbleweed> np. If I wasn't outside swatting off mosquitos I'd have replied sooner
<tumbleweed> bdrung: pushed some distro-info changes, btw.
<tumbleweed> bdrung: releasing u-d-t. Screw testing, that's what users are for
<tumbleweed> (I joke, naturally)
 * ajmitch saves that quote
<tumbleweed> there is quite a bit of churn, I'm sure there are still issues. But I can't see them rgiht now.
<highvoltage> heh, at least that boosts your mosquito body count :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: your changes look good. what do you think about http://paste.ubuntu.com/1012276/ ?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: hope that your upload fixes more bugs than introducing new ones ;)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: if that works, no objection
<bdrung> tumbleweed: that works (compare that with testHelp() for example)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i played user regarding bug #999727
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 999727 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[backportpackage] -v and -m options don't work" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999727
<bdrung> :P
<bdrung> tumbleweed: should we release distro-info 0.10?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: what happens if python-distro-info throws an out-of-date exeption without distro-info being installed?
<tumbleweed> move that README to distro-info-data?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: then it will be always present
<tumbleweed> exactly
<bdrung> can you do that?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: that readme assumes we'd use stable-updates (the modern volatile) but we haven't actually asked the release-team if they'd do that.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can you ask them?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-29
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<micahg> ajmitch: just kicked off the openclipart build
<soren> Heh. Had to read that 3-4 times before realising it wasn't open-CLI-part, but open-clip-art :)
<geser> good morning
<ajmitch> micahg: thanks! :)
<dupondje> Anyone knows how I can get Numlock state in GDK2?
<dholbach> bigon, salut, Ã§a va?
<dholbach> bigon, do you think you could take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policycoreutils/+bug/1005398? the bug is fixed in Debian and quantal, but I'm not sure this SRU upload is the best way we can fix it in precise
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1005398 in policycoreutils (Ubuntu Precise) "Failure trying to purge policycoreutils" [Undecided,New]
<bigon> dholbach: salut :)
<bigon> let me look
<dholbach> merci beaucoup mon ami
<bigon> dholbach: you should probably remove the symlink from the runlevel only on purge
<bigon> (on debian I actually made debhelper generate the stanza in the maintainer scripts)
<dholbach> bigon, I just got across the bug when I was patch piloting and thought that somebody who had more knowledge about it might have a better idea
<bigon> dholbach: the correct way IMHO is to use dh_installinit
<bobweaver> anyone now where I can find a tutorial on packaging with cmake? I have been hacking this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-sUVVvRdKE    and am almost ready to package but I dont know if I am good enough at it yet so any tutorials would help a bunch thanks
<Laney> geser: did you find anything out about ghc?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: your dch distro check logic is broken
<bdrung> tumbleweed: dch -D foobar-prop does not throw a warning
<jtaylor> gaa! bug 1006026, how do they get past the bug pattern!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1006026 in blcr (Ubuntu) "blcr-dkms 0.8.2-15ubuntu2: blcr kernel module failed to build" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1006026
<geser> Laney: sort of, infinity is looking at it. He suspects that because armel is now ARMv5 but GHC doesn't know about it.
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
<lfaraone> barry: oops. As you can tell, I copypasted from another welcome email, and customeised everything but the name :P
<barry> lfaraone: yep, no worries :)
<lfaraone> barry: also, I asked, and "discussing debian policy at a local pub" is not an acceptable way to pass you through the NM process.
<lfaraone> that was my first plan.
<barry> lfaraone: i knew i should have included dinner
<lfaraone> barry: Hmm I'll get back to you on that.
 * barry isn't above a bribe, especially if it's delicious
<directhex> lfaraone, pretty sure that's how many debian developers got their DD status
<directhex> lfaraone, cambridge is a fine place to do it, due to abnormally high DD concentration
<lfaraone> Blame MIT and http://debathena.mit.edu/
<psusi> if rev 121 is a merge, how do you get bzr to show the revisions that were merged in?
<StevenK> bzr log -n 0
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-30
<micahg> cyphermox: that freecad upload could've been another no change rebuild to fix the changelog entry
<micahg> cyphermox: I meant build2 vs ubuntu1 :)
<ScottK> micahg: He knows.  It was an accident.
<micahg> ScottK: was looking for scrollback and didn't see any
<ScottK> It was a PM.
<micahg> ok
<dholbach> good morning
<mitya57> good morning! :)
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<jokerdino> hey MOTU folks, can someone take a jab at this question - http://askubuntu.com/questions/144052/how-to-file-a-bug-report-for-a-specific-ubuntu-release
<jokerdino> i reckon you guys are the perfect ones to answer this question ^^
<muelli> hey folks. I have a subversion repository with a debian/ folder. It's libnfc from http://libnfc.googlecode.com/svn/trunk. And all I want it a source package that I can upload. Bonus points if I can alter the arguments to dh_auto_configure. git-buildpackage would work reasonably well, but svn-buildpackage doesn't work as expected :-\ I.e. I need to generate a .orig tarball myself... Is that really true?
<mitya57> muelli: .orig tarball should be downloaded from upstream, you shouldn't change or regenerate it
<mitya57> if svn-buildpackage doesn't work, you can unpack upstream and your source into one directory
<mitya57> cd there and run debuild
<muelli> mitya57: I *have* already downloaded the SVN repository. So all the sources are there.
<mitya57> muelli: if the upstream svn contains debian directory, the package should be native instead
<mitya57> so, you need to change debian/source/format to "3.0 (native)" and
<muelli> well, that shows 3.0 (quilt)
<mitya57> drop "-0" prefix from the first (from top) entry in debian/changelog
<mitya57> muelli: change "quilt" to "native"
<mitya57> this is the most simpliest solution,
<mitya57> you won't have to deal with separate .orig and .debian tarballs
<mitya57> *the most simple
<muelli> mitya57: alright. Sounds good. thank you very much.
<mitya57> you are welcome
<muelli> Still a bit annoying. I presume, I can convince dpkg-source to just assume the format to be native.
<muelli> and quilt format would indicate there to be patches/ directory and a series file, is that correct?
<mitya57> dpkg-source is for generating .dsc files
<mitya57> quilt format is the most common format, it supports debian/patches but doesn't require that
<muelli> how would I best change the "original" from SVN then. I could obviously modify in place. But should I rather export the the patch (i.e. svn diff), put it somewhere and revert the change?
<mitya57> just modify in place
<mitya57> are you going to just build that package for yourself, or upload it somewhere?
<muelli> mitya57: well, I want to scratch my own itch first, but I want to do it as sustainably as possible. So it'll at least end up on my ppa
<mitya57> in any case you'll have to modify that manually (or manually build the tarball, if you leave the format unmodified)
<mitya57> every time the upstream changes
<muelli> thanks for your help so far. Highly appreciated.
<muelli> another dput related question. So far I have to do "dput -f ppa: ..." and I haven't had any success trying to configure a default. I want to make it "dput *.changes" only, i.e. without the -f. Is that possible?
<muelli> ah, my ~/.dput.cf has method sftp, while the dput -f does ftp *thinking*
<mitya57> my .dput.cf has ftp
<mitya57> it's anyway secure because it checks your pgp key on server side
<mitya57> and I do just "dput my-ppa PKGNAME_VERSION_source.changes"
<muelli> yeah, well. sometime I can only go out of the network with port 22, 80 and 443. But right now it works, so I'll give it a shot
<mitya57> I have to go out, sorry
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
<gnomefreak> is gir1.2-gjsdbus-1.0 still needed in 12.10?
<AmberJ> Hello
<AmberJ> I'm trying to create package(s) for OpenCog using instructions on ubuntu wiki..
<AmberJ> When I run 'debuild -uc -us', all goes fine until I get this: http://pastebin.com/VqwrPZim
<AmberJ> Line 19 is where some errors start to pop up...
<AmberJ> .deb packages for opencog don't exist. I'm starting from scratch
<AmberJ> Line 19 says: "cp: cannot stat `../../opencog-0.1/opencog/embodiment/Control/MessagingSystem/router': No such file or directory" ... But this file exists in the specified location
<AmberJ> Also, opencog uses cmake and I didn't made any changes to debian/rules (autogenerated by 'bzr dh-make').
<AmberJ> Though I read about some cmake edits that can be made to debian/rules, I didn't made any. And the build process seems to go fine without any edit to debain/rules
<jtaylor> bug 700036
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 700036 in blcr (Ubuntu Natty) "package blcr-dkms 0.8.2-15ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: blcr kernel module failed to build - error: âstruct signal_structâ has no member named âcountâ" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/700036
<jtaylor> just wanted the title, lp times out in the browser
<tumbleweed> reloading often works when bits of lp timeout. If the relevant bits of table are in RAM, it may not timeout
<jtaylor> does not help :/ those blcr bugs almost always time out, probably because of the hundreds of dupes
<tumbleweed> opened for me, first time
<tumbleweed> oh, also for bugs, .../+text
<jtaylor> strange
<jtaylor> a +text works
<jtaylor> thx
<frceego> Hello
<frceego> How common (and difficult) is it to create multiple packages from a single version controlled repo of a project that uses cmake?
<frceego> The project has many component programs many of which can serve as independent program/libraries.
<frceego> But they are all tied under a single cmake project using top-level CMakeLists.txt file.
<jtaylor> you build multiple source packages?
<bcurtiswx> SpamapS, re Bug #1003465, do I still need all that information with a microrelease SRU ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1003465 in empathy (Ubuntu) "SRU request for bug fix release 3.4.2.1" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1003465
<jtaylor> a source package can have multiple binary packages
<frceego> The code for the complete project is in a single upstream source package.
<SpamapS> bcurtiswx: I don't see a micro release exception for empathy here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
<SpamapS> bcurtiswx: so yes. At least you need to discuss the risk of regression created by introducing all of the changes.
<frceego> The code for the complete project is in a single upstream source package."cmake". I could not find much info about cmake+multipleBinaries on Ubuntu wiki... So, I'm reading debian's new maintainer's guide.
<frceego> oops, typo. I meant: I'm interested in this kinda project using "cmake". The upstream source is tied under a single cmake project()
<jtaylor> you're using cmake to build the package?
<bcurtiswx> SpamapS, hmm I thought there was some exception with GNOME packages and microreleases
<frceego> yes jtaylor
<jtaylor> I'm not familiar with that
<frceego> ok
<jtaylor> multiple binary packages from one source is possible (and normal), but no idea if cmake supports it
<SpamapS> bcurtiswx: none that I see.
<SpamapS> bcurtiswx: I think in practice, a lot of them have been waved through
<geser> jtaylor, frceego: the splitting into seperate binary packages is done after the "make install" during the package build by specifing in debian/$package.install which files go to which binary package
<bcurtiswx> SpamapS, hmm. OK. Thanks
<jtaylor> yes but how to teach that to cmake?
<jtaylor> or cpack in this case
<geser> you don't need to tell cmake it, cmake install into $DESTDIR and debhelper (more precisely dh_install) moves then the files around
<jtaylor> that requires modifying debian/
<jtaylor> I guess what is wanted is automated debian packaging from cmake
<frceego> jtaylor: sorry, if I was not clear. I'm NOT using cpack. All I do is use cmake to build project.
<geser> to build a proper package you need files in debian/ anyways
<jtaylor> geser:  I'm not sure about that cpack can output to debs and rpms
<jtaylor> I don't thnk you need a debian dir for that
<geser> I don't know about cpack, so can't comment on it
<jtaylor> frceego: in that case do what geser said
<frceego> yes. noted.
<geser> if you want something which can be uploaded to the archive (or a PPA) you need to be able to build the binary package with the usual Debian/Ubuntu tools (dpkg-buildpackage)
<frceego> yes, someone told that to me a few days ago. So, I quit the idea of using cpack and now I'm learning about debian/ubuntu tools ..
<AmberJ> Any ideas why my 'debuild -uc -us' fails? all goes fine until I get this: http://pastebin.com/VqwrPZim
<jtaylor> something is broken with the build, see line 19
<AmberJ> jtaylor, Line 19 says: "cp: cannot stat `../../opencog-0.1/opencog/embodiment/Control/MessagingSystem/router': No such file or directory" ... But this file exists in the specified location
<geser> if computed the relative path correctly based on this log then it tries to find a file /home/amberj/opencog-0.1/opencog/embodiment/Control/MessagingSystem/router
<AmberJ> err..wait
<AmberJ> I was wrong. The file exists instead at /home/amberj/dustbin/opencog-0.1/opencog/embodiment/Control/MessagingSystem
<AmberJ> This has to do either with project's cmake or me messing with cmake's cache for the project.
<AmberJ> Let me retry by doing a fresh checkout.. Once I'm done, I'll report here.
<AmberJ> Thanks geser jtaylor
<AmberJ> Is there a (de facto) standard way to create upstream tarballs?
<tumbleweed> depends on the upstream
<AmberJ> The project I'm working with does not provides upstream tar files atm. So, I typically checkout/branch the bazaar repo and use 'find' to recursively delete .bzr/
<AmberJ> And then, tar the directory
<tumbleweed> that works
<tumbleweed> bzr has an export command btw
<geser> can bzr export as a tar.gz too?
<tumbleweed> AmberJ: there are a bunch of recipes in the old packaging guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<tumbleweed> geser: yes
<AmberJ> tumbleweed, thanks, bzr's export was what I was looking for.
<AmberJ> geser, jtaylor Just done with deb package... project's cmake config was fine; it seems I messed with cmake's cache last time
<dupondje> Somebody around with some GTK coding knowledge ?
<chrisccoulson> dupondje, sometimes it's better just to ask your question ;)
<chrisccoulson> (and you might get a better response in #ubuntu-desktop)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-31
<tumbleweed> bdrung: tided up, rebased, and fixed that issue
<bdrung> tumbleweed: too late
<bdrung> tumbleweed: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=devscripts/devscripts.git
<bdrung> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=devscripts/devscripts.git;a=commitdiff;h=ea7efb510344868dced804baa9b21aae5ed6b3a8
<tumbleweed> gaah, just wasted an hour then
<bdrung> tumbleweed: sorry for that. i incorporated your recommends/suggests stuff
<bdrung> tumbleweed: we can finally sync devscripts
<tumbleweed> \o/
<bdrung> and i am currently fixing bug #723715
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 723715 in devscripts (Ubuntu) "dch -D doesn't recognize unstable" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723715
<bdrung> tumbleweed: please check http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=devscripts/devscripts.git;a=commitdiff;h=4e37799e18b218a3247fdcb4559cf53cc7487e84
<bdrung> my perl foo isn't that good
<tumbleweed> it looks reasonable
<tumbleweed> arguably displaying a warning when using a distribution from a different vendor isn't a terrible idea
 * tumbleweed isn't much of a perl fan either
<bdrung> tumbleweed: feel free to tune that code
<bdrung> (and add more tests)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i plan to do a devscripts upload soon. anything that should be fixed / go into the next upload?
<micahg> bdrung: before you upload devscripts, I think the man page should be updated to reflect the new (more proper on Ubuntu) behaviour of dch -i if that's possible
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> hey geser
<ajmitch> hi geser, dholbach
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<micahg> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi micahg
<micahg> and dholbach and geser :)
<dholbach> hey micahg :)
<geser> and Hi micahg
<ajmitch> so many greetings...
<micahg> dholbach: I see you've reached the coveted more than 50 items reviewed level: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/1glance-sponsoring/
<dholbach> woo! :)
<ajmitch> impressive
<dholbach> I'm sure there were a few easy ones I did ;-)
 * micahg used to have above 20, but seems to be slacking
 * ajmitch needs to do some work to get back on that list
<micahg> ajmitch: well, you have at least 1 upload this cycle already ;)
<ajmitch> micahg: I need to do a bit more than that
<micahg> ajmitch: top uploader list for quantal  bottom spot is 10 uploads ATM
<iulian> Morning.
<ajmitch> hi iulian
<iulian> How's it going, ajmitch?
<ajmitch> good, just waiting for dinner to cook :)
<micahg> hi iulian, I guess I'm joining you on the regular membership board
<ajmitch> micahg: oh yes, forgot to congratulate you on your sentence ;)
<micahg> ajmitch: heh, somehow I got signed up for the 12:00 slot
<iulian> micahg: Congrats.
 * micahg guesses the CC couldn't tell what timezone I work from either
<dholbach> micahg, I'm sure there's a way to get that changed :)
<micahg> dholbach: heh, it's ok, I can wake up early once a month (already do for the DMB)
<ajmitch> micahg: this is why I was dubious of putting my name forward - both times didn't really suit well
<ajmitch> not so much of a problem for someone who doesn't sleep
<iulian> micahg: What timezone do you live in?
<micahg> UTC-5/-6
<ajmitch> wrong question to ask
<iulian> Err, how lazy you are in the mornings?
<iulian> Better ajmitch? :)
<ajmitch> more like "at what hour of the morning do you go to sleep?"
<ajmitch> since he seems to be on irc rather late
<iulian> Oh, I see.
<micahg> so, it varies :)
<bdrung> micahg: do you have a suggestion (patch) how the man page should be changed?
<micahg> bdrung: a third line saying something like "On Ubuntu, this will also change the suffix from buildX to ubuntuX.  Use -R, --rebuild for a no change rebuild increment.
<micahg> s/a third line/insert at the third line/
<dholbach> tumbleweed, done
<bdrung> micahg: "third line" is a bit unspecific, because the formatting is not fixed
<micahg> before 'This creates a new section at the  beginning'
<bdrung> micahg: thanks and pushed. anything else that should be documented?
<loop0> hey
<bregma> I need to upload an SRU change for 12.04 that has the same package version as the latest package in quantal -- should I add ~precise to the SRU package version?
<geser> bregma: no, fix it in quantal first and then use the usual SRU versioning
<jtaylor> what could be the reason kmod is missing in quantal? its not blacklisted and not in the new queue (if I looked at the right queue)
<geser> good question. what happens when you try to sync it?
<jtaylor> didn't try that
<jtaylor> shouldn't that be automatic?
<geser> I'm not sure if it's already included in the daily(?) auto-sync
<geser> and I've no idea why it didn't got synced in the last manual run either
<micahg> bdrung: if I run into anything else, I'll let you know, that change (-i behaviour) might be a shocker for some, so I figured it worth documenting
<geser> perhaps also add a NEWS entry?
<micahg> hrm, does Debian have -R or is it Ubuntu specific?
<jtaylor> debian doesn't need it, rebuilds should go over the release team
<bdrung> micahg: it's more ubuntu specific
<micahg> right, so, technically, anyone using -i for a rebuild is not doing it right anyways
<micahg> sorry, not awake yet, leading me to saying that it's not worth a NEWS entry if people are doing it wrong
<jtaylor> -i is used for arch all rebuilds, but -release should know about it
<micahg> jtaylor: well, if regular devs aren't doing rebuilds, that's a very small subset anyways
<ScottK> jtaylor: sync-source New is a separate process than the regular syncs and is run less often.
<jtaylor> I though so, but there was a new sync a few days back, maybe it was just not done in that run
<jtaylor> shouldn't it be in the new queue then?
<geser> ScottK: is it still true? I remember cjwatson wanting to merge it into the normal auto-sync but I don't know if it already happened or not
<ScottK> I'm not sure.
<geser> and even the previous version was long enough in testing to get picked up by one of the new syncs, so I've no idea why it didn't get synced till now
<geser> jtaylor: ah, the reason is probably that we have already a binary package "module-init-tools" (build from module-init-tools) and syncing kmod need investigation
<jtaylor> yes it is my understanding kmod is supposed to replace that
<geser> and also checking which of our module-init-tools delta needs to get adopted to kmod
<jtaylor> what I actually want to know if its some queue or blacklisted on an unknown list
<jtaylor> we need to sync or merge dntools to not pull in dnet into quantal
<geser> kmod (source package) builds now module-init-tools (transitional package) and as that would "conflict" with the current one (two source packages build the same binary package => the highest version wins and upload of the other will fail after build), so it needs investigation if syncing the package is the right thing and the new sync script aborts on those
<jtaylor> which needs kmod
<geser> not sure, who can answer the question what is planed about this package, perhaps ask the ubuntu-release team
<cjwatson> ScottK,geser: new packages are now synced as part of normal auto-syncing, unless there's something that requires manual resolution
<cjwatson> jtaylor: kmod overwrites a module-init-tools binary with Ubuntu changes - it requires somebody to merge the m-i-t changes into kmod
<cjwatson> it's not on a manual blacklist, auto-sync detects the situation
<cjwatson> slangasek said he was going to have a look at kmod
<jtaylor> cjwatson: thx, I'll wait with dntools a bit longer then
<slangasek> yes, there are bits to port
<cjwatson> anyway the headline is that new syncs are no longer artificially delayed vs updated syncs, which is yay
<ScottK> \o/
<cjwatson> things which can delay new packages: building a binary which already has an Ubuntu version string; having had previous publication records in Ubuntu
<cjwatson> or of course being manually blacklisted
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-01
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> I'm very pleased - we have our first contributors to the bug fixing initiative alread
<dholbach> y
<geser> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> Sebastian Carneiro, Siddhanathan S. and Guruprasad
<dholbach> hey geser
<dholbach> I was particularly surprised to see somebody take on a package which was in Debian as well (my mistake, I wanted to pick just Ubuntu-only packages) and they sent a patch to Debian too
<dholbach> and Bruno Ribeiro too
<dholbach> nice
<tumbleweed> bdrung: you synced devscripts \o/
<tumbleweed> broder/backporters: re bug 1007042: I'm assuming we should update-maintainer backports?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1007042 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[backportpackage] fails but worked last week" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1007042
<bdrung> tumbleweed: finally. it was on my todo list for month
<tumbleweed> it was on mine for the release, got to it early :)
<Laney> "we should update-maintainer backports"?
<tumbleweed> run update-maintainer on them
<tumbleweed> oh, my comment hasn't landed yet
 * tumbleweed blames the terrible internet in this welsh pub
<Laney> maybe
<Laney> or maybe dpkg-source's regexp or whatever it is should be fixed for this new schema
<tumbleweed> anyway, the issue is that now backports contain "ubuntu" in their version
<tumbleweed> and dpkg-source doesn't like it
<tumbleweed> reading the source, we can trivially get around this by exporting @ubuntu.com in DEBEMAIL
<Laney> isn't it the other way around?
<tumbleweed> err yes
<tumbleweed> jbicha: re bug 1007042, what's not clear in that changelog entry?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1007042 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[backportpackage] fails but worked last week" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1007042
<jbicha> why is ~ubuntu12.04.1 better than ~precise1? what makes it more "future-proof"?
<Zhenech> jbicha, maybe people thing what will happen after ubuntu xx.yy Zetty Zoo :)
<jbicha> oh ok
<Zhenech> just guessing, though
<tumbleweed> jbicha: yup, the z->a wrap aronud. Not that that's an issue for a while yet, but it will be eventually
<geser> and ideally we switch to the ~ubuntuXX.YY scheme as long as ~$series < ~ubuntu
<tumbleweed> oh, Laney: not going to be able to make the meeting. But I don't have anything to comment on, either
<Laney> aye
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
<broder> tumbleweed: i'm not actually sure whether or not i think we should for no-change backports
<TheFred> hello
<TheFred> I wish to create a .deb package which will include an icon in the same way that dropbox and skype does, where can i find more information about doing this?
<TheFred> By which i mean on the same panel as the the system displays the time/date/etc...
<JanC> TheFred: http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/technologies/application-indicators/
<JanC> in some cases it's better to integrate with one of the existing indicators though (messages, sound, etc.)
<TheFred> JanC, Thankyou very much
<TheFred> How would I go about getting my program into the Ubuntu Software Center as a priced item? Do i have to contact Canonical?
<micahg> TheFred: https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/
<TheFred> micahg, thankyou
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-02
<jtaylor> hm requestsync does not work in precise
<jtaylor> it just hands at please edit the report
<jtaylor> ok no its just hanging on getting the changelog from the server
<jtaylor> a very long time but finally it made it :) there should be some indication that its doing somethng
<AmberJ_> Hello
<AmberJ_> I just uploaded a source package to my PPA using 'dput'. Why did it uploaded the .deb file as well (created by 'debuild' on my system)?
<jtaylor> probably because you built with default debuild options
<jtaylor> you want -S for source only
<jtaylor> add -sa if its a new upstream
<jtaylor> those are options to dpkg-genchanges
<AmberJ_> Ah right, I simply ran 'debuild'.
<AmberJ_> Moreover, Launchpad PPA rejected my upload with error: "Unknown section 'unknown'". Time to get debian/control in shape...
<AmberJ_> jtaylor, What does it do with .deb file that gets uploaded (if I use default 'debuild' options)?
<jtaylor> launchpad will reject the upload
<jtaylor> but its the default upload mode in debian
<jtaylor> the deb will be published
<jtaylor> not rebuilt
<AmberJ_> ok
<AmberJ_> Launchpad PPA rejected my upload with error: "Unknown section 'unknown'". So, I edited debian/control accordingly. Then I did 'debuild -nc'.
<AmberJ_> Now when I dput source.changes, I get "Package has already been uploaded to ppa on ppa.launchpad.net"
<AmberJ_> Nevermind. https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/UploadErrors has the solution...
<AmberJ_> How common (and normal) is it for a project to include a debian/ in upstream source/repo/tarball?
<jtaylor> not common and not encouraged
<jtaylor> if they do it should be in a branch or subfolder
<AmberJ_> in a subfolder? Suppose I branch the project repo in directory 'xyz'... Do you mean that we should keep debian/ in xyz/subfolder/debian/ instead of xyz/debian/ ?
<AmberJ_> +in case they really do it
<jtaylor> for example
<jtaylor> that makes simpler for debian packagers
<jtaylor> as upstream debian/ folders can cause issues
<AmberJ_> Ok, I'll communicate the message to the developers.
<AmberJ_> Thanks!
<jtaylor> I think its not so bad with the 3.0 format
<jtaylor> it removes the debian folder before unpacking
<jtaylor> but I think that still causes issues with VCS
<AmberJ_> ok
<AmberJ_> How do most debian/ubuntu developers automate debian/ creation then? Is this documented somewhere?
<jtaylor> its no automatic process
<jtaylor> you can use dh_make to get a starting template
<AmberJ_> ok, that means for every new version of deb that you create, you start from dh_make and manually edit debian/control , debian/rules etc (?
<jtaylor> yes
<AmberJ_> ok
<directhex> it's not so bad, starting with a blank slate means less "legacy" nonsense that only made sense in 2007
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-03
<tumbleweed> bdrung: hrm, considering bug 1001068 we got the wrong heuristics in the distro-info devscripts patch
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001068 in devscripts (Ubuntu Precise) "debchange: "quantal" is the default distribution in precise" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001068
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i think we should discuss it on the mailing list
<bdrung> if the distribution should be the development version or the current running version
<tumbleweed> I think that may be ubuntu-specific, though
<tumbleweed> ubuntu has a far higher user:developer ratio and PPAs
<tumbleweed> I made the same mistake just before oneiric released, but we reverted back to recognising precise but defaulting to oneiric
<tumbleweed> I suspect we should have a configuration file variable for that
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
<AmberJ_> Hello
<AmberJ_> I dput my source package to my PPA. But forgot that it depends on a package in another PPA (ppa:dhart/ppa)..
<AmberJ_> Now, when I select "Edit PPA dependencies" and put "ppa:dhart/ppa", I get error "Invalid value".
<AmberJ_> I need to add another PPA as a dependency ...
<AmberJ_> Nevermind.
<AmberJ_> Got it. I need to put "dhart/ppa" in the add ppa dependency.
<AmberJ_> Is there some documentation about how to split single upstream source into multiple deb packages?
<AmberJ_> Someone mentioned about $package.install a few days ago, but all I could find was a couple of lines at http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/dother.en.html#install
<tumbleweed> AmberJ_: see the dh_install manpage
<AmberJ_> Thanks tumbleweed!
<dupondje> tumbleweed: new snort in debian with the ubuntu delta :)
<dupondje> yey
<tumbleweed> dupondje: :)
<dupondje> tumbleweed: did a reqsync :)
<tumbleweed> dupondje: indeed. test-building
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-27
<dholbach> good morning
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i think we should do another u-d-t upload.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: any progress on bug #878868?
<ubottu> bug 878868 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[syncpackage] --no-lp picks up to many changelog entries in certain situations" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878868
<tumbleweed> I'm ignoring that one
<tumbleweed> it should be possible now that LP has changelog access, though
<tumbleweed> bdrung: we need to review that open merge request
<bdrung> tumbleweed: this one: https://code.launchpad.net/~ursinha/ubuntu-dev-tools/fix_getBinaryPackage/+merge/159076 ?
<tumbleweed> yes-
<bdrung> tumbleweed: and there is https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/ubuntu-dev-tools/fix-params/+merge/125786
<alo21> hi... I got an error while running merge-buildpackage -rafekroot -k<GPG_KEY>. this is the error: dpkg-source: info: local changes detected, the modified files are:
<alo21>  gramophone2-0.8.13a-2ubuntu1/Makefile
<alo21> dpkg-source: info: you can integrate the local changes with dpkg-source --commit
<alo21> dpkg-source: error: aborting due to unexpected upstream changes
<alo21> it's weird..
<alo21> why I got that?
<geser> alo21: check what have changed in that file (you might want to run the mentioned command to get a patch file for easier review)
<alo21> geser, I run the command, but I got: dpkg-source: info: fuzz is not allowed when applying patches // dpkg-source: error: LC_ALL=C patch -t -F 0 -N -p1 -u -V never -g0 -E -b -B .pc/typoCorrection.patch/ --reject-file=- < gramophone2-0.8.13a-2ubuntu1/debian/patches/typoCorrection.patch gave error exit status 1
<alo21> typoCorrection.patch is a debian one...not mine
<geser> hmm, I assume this is a normal merge (grab-merge) and not a bzr merge one, right?
<alo21> geser, right
<geser> did the Ubuntu patch per chance tried to modify the same file as the debian patch?
<alo21> geser, the patch which I've just created?
<geser> the existing Ubuntu delta which MoM tried to re-apply on the new Debian revision
<geser> checking the current delta, it looks like it also modifies Makefile but not using a patch
<alo21> geser, the patch which MoM said me to create is the same debdiff in ubuntu repo...the debian patch is in debian folder
<geser> MoM took the existing delta, applies it on the new Debian revision and tars everything up for download and review
<geser> it doesn't know about patch systems and blindly applies the existing delta
<geser> which is probably the reason for this
<geser> before you tried to figure out how to fix this to make dpkg-source happy again: just start from the new Debian revision and merge manually (create a new patch which applies cleanly on the existing ones)
<geser> which be by faster as the changes are pretty small
<alo21> geser, ok.. thanks for the advice
<alo21> Do I have to create a .patch or a debdiff?
<geser> both, the .patch file (in debian/patches; see how the other are named) is part of the source packages, the debdiff for sponsoring/review of the merge
<alo21> so...  I have to upload debdiff only
<geser> yes, you only need to attach the debdiff to the sponsoring bug (the debdiff contains all you changes to the package, incl. your newly created patch)
<alo21> geser, Can I directly upload the previous debdiff? It contains the same changes I have to do
<geser> no, as it misses the new changelog entry
<alo21> well
<alo21> geser, here is the patch (http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5707851/). Could you see if there is something to correct, please?
<geser> the changelog entry shouldn't be part of the patch file itself (it's still a part of the debdiff and you have to keep the older Ubuntu changelog entries too)
<TheLordOfTime> there's a backport in precise and quantal  in universe that is affected by a null pointer dereference bug, is there any easy way to get those backports bugfixed?
<alo21> geser, ok... so the patch shouldn't have the entry log, but only the debdiff.... anyway I tried to run debuild -S -sa on the patched source and I got this issue: dpkg-source: error: LC_ALL=C patch -t -F 0 -N -p1 -u -V never -g0 -E -b -B .pc/cflags.diff/ --reject-file=- < gramophone2-0.8.13a.orig.7lQL3u/debian/patches/cflags.diff gave error exit status
<TheLordOfTime> the fix isn't in saucy or raring btw
<alo21> *status 1
<geser> TheLordOfTime: fix saucy, SRU raring, backport the SRU to precise and quantal
<TheLordOfTime> geser:  does it need to be fixed in debian first?
<TheLordOfTime> or can we just get the fix in saucy, raring, etc.?
<geser> TheLordOfTime: it would make fixing saucy easier, just a sync in that case :)
<TheLordOfTime> i'll poke debian
<TheLordOfTime> although i think they won't update until NextReleaseOfSoftware
<TheLordOfTime> :/
<alo21> TheLordOfTime, so... It's better to send the patch in debian first, right?
<TheLordOfTime> alo21:  you can ignore me talking to geser
<TheLordOfTime> separate issue
<geser> talk to the DD on how to proceed: wait on Debian or move ahead and fix in Ubuntu first
<TheLordOfTime> lrn2readhighlights
<TheLordOfTime> geser:  the software is called 'znc'
<TheLordOfTime> so tbh i can just go in and erase the installed module and upload a rebuilt one to the production server
<geser> TheLordOfTime: if Debian will fix it with a new upstream release, you still have to SRU in raring
<TheLordOfTime> geser:  that's a given :P
<geser> alo21: no idea right now, what you are doing wrong, sorry
<alo21> geser, do not worry
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-28
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<eboy> What's the method for dealing with upstream changes in a git project? Say the local modifications need to stay there but uncommitted and still able to update from upstream.
<eboy> s/uncommitted//
<hrw> eboy: you can: 1. merge them and handle conflicts each time. 2. merge them and rebase each time. 3. use upstream and apply own patches during package build
<hrw> eboy: 2nd is pain for other contributors as tree is smashed on every rebase
<eboy> hrw: option 1 seems best. Normally are separate branches created for local commits? looking into the Merge-o-Matic tool now
<eboy> I just want to understand the typical workflow
<eboy> I guess Arch uses option 3
<hrw> eboy: there are many packages in debian/ubuntu with 3rd option in use
<hrw> it is easiest to work with upstream that way
<hrw> in my opinion
<hrw> eboy: notice that debian packaging consists of original source + debian packaging
<hrw> which makes 3rd option best to provide clean split
<eboy> hm i see
<eboy> thanks i appreciate it
<eboy> hrw: cheers :)
<sil2100> Hello
<hrw> hej sil2100
<tumbleweed> noooo, pypy looks like it timed out on armhf
<mitya57> :(
<tumbleweed> it's a regular occurrence. Just wastes a week of builder time...
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-29
<ajmitch> a/win 62
<lifeless> k
<lifeless> bah
<dholbach> good morning
<alo21> yofel, hi... may I ask you a thing?
<yofel> alo21: yes?
<alo21> yofel, I do not know if you read my mail... I would like to know if you are going to work on kile merge/sync. If not, could I take care of it, please?
<yofel> alo21: read it now. Go ahead with the merge if you want to do it.
<alo21> yofel, thanks
<psusi> are the build daemons hosed?  submitted a package to my ppa yesterday and after 8 hours, finally started building, sat there building for 5 hours ( should only take minutes ), and today shows as canceled
<yofel> alo21: You missed something when reviewing kile: I forgot to get the NO_PNG_PKG_MANGLE setting into debian, so at least that is broken again now. I'll talk to them to see whether we can really sync it in the future.
<alo21> yofel, wow... I'm so sorry...If you want I can send a patch, to fix it...let me know
<yofel> alo21: np, I'll take care of getting that into debian. (I should've done that ages ago already anyway)
<alo21> yofel, OK...thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-30
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> G'morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<dholbach> how's life over there?
<iulian> dholbach: Got my thesis viva today. Happy days after that. :)
<iulian> dholbach: And there?
<dholbach> viva means? defending the thesis?
<iulian> dholbach: Viva voce. Yes but it's an undergrad thesis, so all the material is already known.
<dholbach> all the best with that then!
<iulian> Thanks very much. :)
<iulian> Should probably get back to it. Catch you later.
<dholbach> life's good - I'm looking forward to tonight - I'll have my first diving lesson
<dholbach> see you!
<geser> hmm, does the ", yes" makes any sense in "dh $@ --with python2, yes"?
<jtaylor> is there a space there?
<jtaylor> dh arguments must not have spaces between the comma
<geser> yes, there is a space
<jtaylor> it probably does nothing then
<geser> it seems to make the package FTBFS: dh_python2 -ayes ; Usage: dh_python2 -p PACKAGE [-V [X.Y][-][A.B]] DIR [-X REGEXPR]
<jtaylor> which package?
<geser> monsterz from saucy-proposed
<geser> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/140887310/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-amd64.monsterz_0.7.1-5_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<jtaylor> hm
<jtaylor> great
<jtaylor> one of those built on DD machine, good enough
<jtaylor> fails everywhere
<jtaylor> wait, the maintainer should fix that
<jtaylor> and debian introduce source only uploads ._.
<jtaylor> https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=monsterz
<Laney> build failure mails by default would be a good start ...
<jtaylor> you do get those I think
<Laney> no, you have to subscribe to the package on the pts
<jtaylor> oh
<jtaylor> that sucks
<Laney> kind of does
<jtaylor> btw geser please forward your as-need patches
<jtaylor> saint wasn't forwarded, (did it for you #710364)
<geser> will do (once I figure out why the BTS didn't like my last attempts to file a bug)
<geser> does porting from python3.2 to python3.3 needs many changes? there are currently 2 package in build-wait on python3.2
<jtaylor> depends on the package
<jtaylor> usually not
<mitya57> geser: which packages?
<geser> uucp-lmtp and python-dvdvideo
<mitya57> let me look
<mitya57> uucp-lmtp ftbfs in (non-clean) sid also, because it calls $(shell py3versions -r) setup.py
<mitya57> python-dvdvideo is similar, will now file bugs with patches to bts
<jtaylor> the stricter debian/pyversions check?
<jtaylor> weird that those are not filed yet
<mitya57> jtaylor: re ftbfs in sid I was mistaken, because -r reads d/control where 3.2 is hardcoded; anyway it will ftbfs when we drop 3.2
<geser> probably because they are arch:all which nobody tried to rebuild in Debian yet
 * mitya57 wonders why these packages are 3.0 (native) and install scripts to /usr/sbin
<mitya57> (done)
<jtaylor> cjwatson: can you please forward your tarantool patch to debian, its not applied there and I can't tell for what its needed
<jtaylor> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/134183145/tarantool_1.4.8%2B20130212.1728-1_1.4.8%2B20130212.1728-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
<geser> jtaylor: my guess to fix the FTBFS on i386: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/131061509/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-i386.tarantool_1.4.8%2B20130212.1728-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<jtaylor> why does debian not need it?
<cjwatson> I'll check
<jtaylor> thx
<cjwatson> Might be a side-effect of --as-needed/--no-copy-dt-needed-entries
<jtaylor> yey automated ImplicitPointerConversions check :)
<jtaylor> found a pretty suble bug in squeak-vm
<cjwatson> jtaylor: Ha, I did forward that patch :-P
<cjwatson> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=703044
<ubottu> Debian bug 703044 in tarantool "tarantool: make sure __i686.get_pc_thunk.bx is defined" [Normal,Fixed]
<cjwatson> So I'll test-build and sync
<cjwatson> It looks like it's just fixed differently in Debian/upstream
<jtaylor> hm
<jtaylor> k
<jtaylor> I just checked the patch file and didn't see it
<jtaylor> *patched
<cjwatson> jtaylor: Like I say, fixed differently.  The code in question doesn't refer to the offending symbol any more.
<jtaylor> thanks for checking
<jtaylor> I usually file the debian bug before uploading so I can add a reference to the patch
<mitya57> oh, lintian now depends on three more perl modules from universe :(
 * mitya57 will file MIRs later if noone else does
<jtaylor> can someone tell me why wmnd is not migrating?
<jtaylor> I can'T see any errors in exuses and output
<Laney> jtaylor: excuses says "Depends: net-snmp"
<Laney> means it's blocking on that
<jtaylor> but below it says valid candidate?
<Laney> right
<Laney> it's otherwise good at the first stage, but something else is holding it back
<Laney> so get net-snmp to migrate ... looks fun
<jtaylor> arg the third package with an unforwarded as-needed patch!
<jtaylor> forth package ..
<cjwatson> jtaylor: anything related to net-snmp or libgd is blocked on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/libgd2.html
<cjwatson> I sorted out all the ones directly related to net-snmp, but they're intertangled
<cjwatson> I've been trying to get plplot to build, but it's complex
<cjwatson> I think the answer may be to drop the Ada bindings as well as D
<jbicha> jtaylor: I think we're going to need 0001-Revert-data-Hide-rygel-preferences-in-GNOME.patch which Debian dropped in their latest releases
<jtaylor> our gnome can't do it?
<jtaylor> but yes probably it should be added back if ubuntu sticks with the older control center
<jtaylor> what are the gnome plans for saucy?
<mitya57> jtaylor: I believe we are going to upgrade most things (including g-c-c) to 3.8
<jtaylor> jbicha: as you are here could it be that you dropped the patch for bug 995281 in the split into five-or-more?
<ubottu> bug 995281 in Baltix "glines segfault" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/995281
<jbicha> jtaylor: I think Ubuntu will *eventually* upgrade to control-center 3.8 but there's still more work needed and the Desktop Team is busy with everything else
<jbicha> the upstream bug for five-or-more claims it should have been fixed in 3.8
<jtaylor> apparently not I can reproduce the crash
<jtaylor> I'll try if the patch stil works
<jtaylor> (it applies)
<jbicha> it doesn't segfault here...
<jtaylor> 32bit?
<jbicha> 64
<jtaylor> it only affects 32
<jtaylor> you get it in a raring i386 chroot
<jtaylor> at least it builds faster now :)
<jtaylor> jbicha: the old patch still fixes it
<jtaylor> oh man just figured out you can move around corners in this game!
<TheLordOfTime> lol?
<jtaylor> thats why I found it so incredibly hard ^^
<jtaylor> I though it was one of those almost impossible to beat unless your lucky games ._.
<jtaylor> jbicha: I added the patch back, sru later ._.
<jtaylor> for five-or-more, not rygel
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-31
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<iulian> How did your first diving lesson go?
<dholbach> hey iulian
<dholbach> it was absolutely fantastic
<iulian> Brilliant.
<dholbach> I was a bit overwhelmed trying to handle everything at once
<iulian> Hehe.
<dholbach> but it was loads of fun - I can't wait for the one next week :)
<iulian> Cool. :)
<dholbach> how did your viva go?
<iulian> dholbach: Very good. I lost track of time and one of the examiners stopped me, otherwise I would've carried on with my talk.
<dholbach> but they were happy all in all?
<iulian> Yup, they were really happy with the work I've done.
<iulian> Now I've got a bit more time to catch up with Ubuntu devel. :)
<dholbach> great work! :)
<believethebible> !ops | Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!
<believethebible> Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent no
<believethebible> w! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For th
<believethebible> e Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom
<believethebible>  of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God i
<believethebible> s at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the King
<Laney> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<believethebible> Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent no
<Laney> ah, nice
<believethebible> w! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For th
<believethebible> e Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!Repent now! For the Kingdom
<Pici> lag :/
<Laney> very fast :-)
<alo21> hi...
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-01
<robottinosino> hi, i am having problems installing LaTeX. example: dpkg: error processing texlive-base (--configure)
<robottinosino> What debugging info should I provide?
<mitya57> robottinosino: is there anything after that line?
<robottinosino> hi mitya57, and thanks for helping.
<robottinosino> screenfuls of error messages, even overflowing (as in: No apport report written because MaxReports is reached already)
<mitya57> robottinosino: please pastebin those messages somewhere (or show a screenshot)
<robottinosino> No problem to pastebin, where can I get the "log" from dpkg?
<mitya57> also, which release are you using?
<mitya57> /var/log/dpkg.log, but the printed error messages are usually more helpful
<robottinosino> mitya57: Ok, so i need to copy/paste those from gnome-terminal? (it's a few screens of them) Or just pastebin the dpkg.log?
<mitya57> robottinosino: please paste from terminal (not ones coming from apport, but ones coming from dpkg/apt)
 * robottinosino working on it..
<robottinosino> release is: raring (but after an upgrade)
<mitya57> !pastebinit | robottinosino
<ubottu> robottinosino: pastebinit is the command-line equivalent of !pastebin - Command output, or other text can be redirected to pastebinit, which then reports an URL containing the output - To use pastebinit, install the Â« pastebinit Â» package from a package manager - Simple usage: command | pastebinit -b http://paste.ubuntu.com
<mitya57> ^ you can use that, it makes things easier
<robottinosino> mitya57: thank you.
<robottinosino> mitya57: here is a start: http://sprunge.us/RGEj
<mitya57> robottinosino: looks like texlive-base postinst script fails without any error message :(
<robottinosino> bad times :(
<robottinosino> i can apt-get remove --purge manyThings
<robottinosino> should i?
<mitya57> robottinosino: can you please run "sudo dpkg-reconfigure texlive-base" and paste the output?
<robottinosino> of course i can. thanks again for "staying with this"..
<robottinosino> I am using the system directly as root, not sudo'ing, should I try doing the same routine as "tinosino"?
<robottinosino> could that be the problem?
<mitya57> that shouldn't matter
<robottinosino> i noticed when you said "sudo ..."
<robottinosino> output: /usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure: texlive-base is broken or not fully installed
<mitya57> robottinosino: sorry, that command should be "dpkg --configure texlive-base" instead
<robottinosino> sudo: dpkg-reconfigure: command not found
<robottinosino> right...
<mitya57> robottinosino: stop, why do you have version 2009-15 on raring?
<mitya57> it should be 2012.20120611-5...
<robottinosino> oh... i have no idea why... here the output: http://sprunge.us/DDVU
<robottinosino> should i apt-get remove --purge stuff... then you can tell me which package name to install?
<mitya57> robottinosino: 2009-15 was in precise, and looks like it was really broken (I see lots of "installation failed" bug reports at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/texlive-base/)
<robottinosino> right...
<mitya57> robottinosino: did you upgrade from precise to raring?
<mitya57> and did you have texlive installed before upgrade?
<robottinosino> i googled before coming here and i did see many other people struggling
<robottinosino> as a matter of fact
<robottinosino> in the meantime i have got a VM up, to have a fresh install, and that fails too.. but the vm is 12.04 (please don't be confused by this, it's just an attempt i made on the side, to see whether i could quickly compile my latex and get on with the week-end.. :) so... it's failing in 12.04 fresh and in 13.04 upgraded..
<mitya57> robottinosino: so you upgraded from 12.04 to 13.04, right?
<mitya57> and did you have texlive installed before upgrade?
<robottinosino> in one system, yes
<robottinosino> yes, i did
<mitya57> robottinosino: as a workaround, you can purge all texlive* packages and then try to install them back
<robottinosino> that's what i wanted to do :) thanks for giving me the go-ahead! :)
<robottinosino> apt-get remove --purge texlive* ?
<mitya57> robottinosino: yes, that should work
<robottinosino> mitya57: thank you
<mitya57> we of course should fix texlive in precise also, maybe I'll look at it but not today
<robottinosino> mitya57: right..
<robottinosino> all's gone. apt-get returned
<robottinosino> mitya57: i am reinstalling texlive to try again
<robottinosino> family calls though.. so i can't spend all day on this.. i'll be back with more info
<robottinosino> mitya57: thanks a lot for your help so far, i appreciate it a lot
<robottinosino> it is my duty to report that i tried installing texlive-full (even..) on 12.04 LTS and that succeeds if run with sudo as user tinosino and _fails_ (!!) if run just the same but as root, without sudo...
<mitya57> that's strange
<robottinosino> mitya57: you know what? that _totally_ baffles me
<robottinosino> and that confusion, for me.. (in my case, not yours) is a total sign of ignorance.. i just realise i dont' really _understand_ the difference btw sudo and direct login
<cjwatson> Aha, I think I might be able to finish the libgd2->libgd3 (plus intertangled net-snmp) transition tonight
<cjwatson> ... except missed a bit in the transition tracker.  drat
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-02
<Laney> woe is gdcm
<mitya57> Laney: did you see my gdcm branch in the sponsoring queue? :)
<mitya57> (it needs updated gccxml first)
<Laney> mitya57: no!
<Laney> is it tested with new vtk?
<mitya57> Laney: it builds, I don't know how to use it...
<Laney> heh
<Laney> mitya57: regarding gccxml, we should ask someone who can test build on ppc hardware to do that
<Laney> I don't know that "builds in Debian" is a good guide here, since -3 also built there
<Laney> infinity: ^? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gccxml/+bug/1186577
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1186577 in gccxml (Ubuntu) "Sync gccxml 0.9.0+git20130511-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<mitya57> Laney: I've pinged BenC yesterday, but I think we can sync and then re-add a delta if it fails
<Laney> mitya57: we can wait; it's not like the migration can happen without xpdf anyway ;-)
<mitya57> Laney: do you have any thoughts about xpdf? :)
<Laney> I didn't even look at it
<Laney> was under the impression you were going to fix it
<mitya57> I can offer some solutions but all are very ugly
<mitya57> In short, we compile xpdf not with xpdf core, but with poppler core, and it uses lots of poppler's private methods
<mitya57> ... and in new poppler lots of these methods were removed
<mitya57> so we can either copy-paste some code from poppler to xpdf (via a patch)
<mitya57> or don't build using poppler (security team doesn't like that)
<mitya57> or drop it from the archive and wait for upstream/debian to fix it
<mitya57> err, s/upstream\///g
<mitya57> ah, we can also re-add those methods in poppler
<mitya57> Laney: anyway, it's sleep time for me, see you tomorrow @ DMB meeting :)
<Laney> nn
<infinity> Laney: That patch is still needed on powerpc, FWIW.
<infinity> Laney: I might simplify the patch however instead of doing a merge.  Testbuilding now.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-26
<suvadeep> hi
<michagogo> 15:17:00 <ogra_> better changeyour password now ;) <-- Why? What damianr accidentally sent in here isn't sensitive, and didn't include his password, email address, or anything else of concern.
<ogra_> i could write a bot spamming as his account ;)
<ogra_> and this channel is publically logged ...
<michagogo> ogra_: huh?
<michagogo> That wasn't an identify command
<michagogo> not a register command
<michagogo> Nor a setpass command
<michagogo> It was a VERIFY REGISTER command, which is just the email verification token
<michagogo> You can't use that for anything
<damianr> Hi there once again, I have a doubt. When fixing bugs which are also present in the upstream. After Informing the upstream, the upstream package fixes not just that bug but couple of other bugs or introduce features do I have include those in the bug patch.?
<geser> it depends: for a stable update: only the changes for that bug; for development versions: the new upstream version
<damianr> Thanks and one more, patch attached and branch avaliable in launchpad bug means the fix is commited by someone in different medium ie through a patch file and through a different launchpad branch ?
<arun_> guys how do I use a pbuilder ?
<arun_> hello
<damianr> arun_ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<arun_> damianr: I didn't get the .deb file using "sudo pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --arch --debootstrapopts i386
<arun_> damianr:
<damianr> I am new around here too.
<arun_> damianr: ohh !!! thanks for the help though
<damianr> i think u should indicate the package u want to build
<damianr> normally i am guessing pbuilder works with dsc file
<shadeslayer> debfx: thx for backporting btw
<arun_> how can I get 32 bit deb file from 64 bit VPS compiling in it
<shadeslayer> arun_: use pbuilder
<shadeslayer> !pbuilder > arun_
<ubottu> arun_, please see my private message
<arun_> shadeslayer: it seems really hard to do
<debfx> shadeslayer: yw
<shadeslayer> arun_: not really
<shadeslayer> arun_: just read the wiki?
<debfx> I'll approve anything that contains those beautiful unicode check marks ;)
<shadeslayer> hahaha
<shadeslayer> <3 unicode checkmarks
<arun_> shadeslayer: no, I did, but didn't obtained the deb file
<shadeslayer> arun_: well, depends on what was defined in BUILDRESULT
<shadeslayer> ( a var in pbuilderrc _
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-27
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-28
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-29
<blueyed> Where can I find documentation about quilt best practises (patch format/name) for Ubuntu/Debian?
<rbasak> blueyed: have you seen https://wiki.debian.org/UsingQuilt?
<rbasak> That has some configuration options for formatting which work well (eg. not introducing noise when refreshing if everyone also does the same)
<rbasak> I've never seen any real convention about naming. In Ubuntu, I try to follow the pattern set by the Debian maintainer for a package, and if not then just use plain names. I don't see the point in an extension when it can be inferred by the directory it's in.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-30
<Maartin10> hi!
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-01
<psusi> I'm trying to get mediatomb to transcode mkv files using ac3 audio to use aac audio so the roku can get working sound.  it doesn't seem to be trying to transcode.  My config.xml is here: http://pastebin.com/VCczgwQv
<psusi> could the problem be that mediatomb uses mime types that don't differentiate the audo codec used ( just treats both as video/matroska )?
<psusi> it doesn't seem to be trying to run avconv and nothing is in the log file
<psusi> and the original video seems to be what the roku is still getting, so no audio
 * psusi whacks xchat
<Logan_> psusi: please use #ubuntu for support
<psusi> that was meant for #mediatomb, but xchat didn't join the channel when I asked apparently ;)
<Logan_> ah :P
<teward> heh
<melodie> hello
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-26
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-27
<dholbach> good morning
 * Unit193 slowpokes barry.
<dholbach> Unit193, barry is very likely asleep
<Unit193> dholbach: Yep, it happens.
<Unit193> He'll be unasleep sometime.
<pvlos> hello guys, is there any ETA for backported packages about apache regarding Logjam attack?
<pvlos> anybody around?
<Rhonda> never
<Laney> pvlos: you probably want to ask in #ubuntu-server if it's a security fix
<pvlos> Laney: thanks
<Laney> or #ubuntu-hardened, but either should work as a first step
<pvlos> Laney: asked already in -hardened but no answer yet
<Laney> okay
<barry> Unit193: yawn! :)
<slackner> hello, i was wondering a bit how to proceed with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1437520 - so far this packaging request was ignored, and as i just heard in a different channel Maarten lankhorst, the previous wine maintainer, is not hired by canonical anymore. who is responsible now?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1437520 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] wine staging" [Wishlist,New]
<slackner> we from the wine staging team would also do the packaging of vanilla wine versions if noone else wants to take over this task, currently it is terribly outdated (1.7.38).
<Unit193> !info wine-development
<ubottu> wine-development (source: wine-development): Windows API implementation - standard suite. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.7.29-4 (vivid), package size 22 kB, installed size 123 kB (Only available for any-i386; any-powerpc; amd64)
<DarkPlayer> slackner was referring to the ubuntu-wine ppa: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wine/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+index?batch=75&memo=75&start=75
<Unit193> Yeah, guessed.
<slackner> wasn't aware that there is also a wine-development package in newer versions, but as it seems its even more outdated
<Unit193> !info wine-development wily
<DarkPlayer> since winehq does not accept bug reports for the stable versions, users are forced to get the wine version from some ppa if they don't want to build from source
<ubottu> wine-development (source: wine-development): Windows API implementation - standard suite. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.7.41-1 (wily), package size 23 kB, installed size 131 kB (Only available for any-i386; any-powerpc; amd64; armhf)
<slackner> current one is 1.7.43, so still outdated *g* ;)
<Unit193> I'm just checking what's in the repos now. :P
<slackner> are these packages just ported from debian? or who is responsible? we would like to proceed somehow with resolving bug 1437520 or at least hear some opinions ^^
<ubottu> bug 1437520 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] wine staging" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437520
<DarkPlayer> Maintainer: Debian Wine Party <pkg-wine-party@lists.alioth.debian.org>
<DarkPlayer> Uploaders:  Michael Gilbert <mgilbert@debian.org>, Stephen Kitt <skitt@debian.org>
<DarkPlayer> looks like the debian package
<micahg> slackner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages?upid=9399#Packaging_it_yourself would be the next step if no one else wants to do it
<micahg> have you contacted the wine team in Debian
<micahg> that's probably the best bet
<micahg> https://pkg-wine.alioth.debian.org/
<DarkPlayer> micahg: there was already a bug report in debian for adding wine staging (from someone else), but it didn't receive any attention
<slackner> micahg: i am not sure if this has changed now that mlankhorst doesn't seem to be responsible anymore, but so far the ubuntu wine packages were packaged by ubuntu directly
<DarkPlayer> moreover, debian also only provides the stable version and their solution to rename all executables in the wine-development package is more than hacky
<slackner> micahg: and as DarkPlayer already said, based on the previous discussions debian didn't seem to be very interested, so we would prefer to get into ubuntu directly - ubuntu seems to be much more user friendly and also applied patches for pulseaudio support in the past, for example ;)
<micahg> last update from the Ubuntu maintainer was 6 months ago, so, generally, it's usually good for Ubuntu specific packages to have a dedicated team or maintainer that'll look after it as Debian has that for its packages, it's technically not a requirement, but without that, the package is likely to get out of date
<DarkPlayer> we wouldn't have a problem with maintaining the vanilla wine package together with wine-staging
<DarkPlayer> we already build wine-staging for a lot of distributions (debian, ubuntu, fedora, mageia, opensuse, ...)
<DarkPlayer> so there is no problem for us maintaining an additional package
<DarkPlayer> since we work on wine for a long time now, we also know how to build wine, many distributions contain broken packages because they use incompatible build flags or miss some important dependency etc.
<micahg> I would suggest contacting https://launchpad.net/~scottritchie/ as he's been maintaining wine in Ubuntu for a long while
<slackner> micahg: we added him to the bug report which was opened two months ago, no answer so far - i am also not sure if i should still expect an answer
<micahg> slackner: I'd suggest sending an email either through launchpad or directly, some people filter bug reports
<micahg> I'd suggest giving about 2 weeks after sending the email, if you don't hear anything and you have it packaged, we can work on getting it into Ubuntu
<slackner> micahg: kk, i'll give it another try then, thx
<micahg> slackner: thanks and good luck
<micahg> we're early in the cycle, so there's time :)
<slackner> micahg: just about to send the mail, should i add you as CC?
<micahg> sure, I don't mind
<utlemming> I just filed Bug 1459455 for inclusion in Wily. Wondering if any of you kind motu's could take a look. This is a Ubuntu specific package for xe-guest-utilities.
<ubottu> bug 1459455 in Ubuntu "[needs packaging] xe-guest-utils" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1459455
<micahg> I can take a look a little later
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-28
<dholbach> good morning
<pipedream> is launchpad working OK?
<pipedream> I'm getting Connecting to launchpadlibrarian.net (launchpadlibrarian.net)|91.189.89.229|:443... connected.
<pipedream> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 502 Proxy Error
<pipedream> 2015-05-28 21:00:00 ERROR 502: Proxy Error.
<wgrant> pipedream: No, our internal cloud is having issues so a lot of files are currently unavailable from the librarian.
<wgrant> What are you trying to download?
<pipedream> a previous deb https://launchpad.net/~aims/+archive/ubuntu/sagemath/+build/7478441/+files/sagemath-upstream-binary_6.7ppa4_amd64.deb
<pipedream> ETA?
<wgrant> pipedream: Yeah, that'll be a few hours.
<pipedream> cool
<pipedream> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-29
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<marnold> question is it possible to cache packages sbuild downloads like pbuilder does
<geser> you could probably use apt-cacher-ng as a proxy if it's not directly supported
<Laney> indeed, you need to use some external solution for sbuild
<marnold> or I could proably use a bind mount
<marnold> also has anyone ever done a live workshop on packaging
<marnold> the Network Security Club at my university found out that i used to contribute, and now they're after me to teach packaging
<Laney> yeah there have been lots
<Laney> I think Lucas Nussbaum @ Debian has some slides somewhere
<lucas__> Laney: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/packaging-tutorial/packaging-tutorial.en.pdf
<Zhenech> so should formorer (but probably in german)
<Zhenech> and maybe also xtaran
<Zhenech> or Rhonda *hiligh*
<Laney>  oh, lucas__ is here!
<Laney> we are not worthy :P
<marnold> I've got three months to prep for this thing, by which time i hope to be an active contributer again
<Zhenech> marnold, deb.li/evgeni, pick a package and improve it :)
<Laney> shameless
<Laney> :)
<Zhenech> as always, yes
<marnold> lol
<marnold> we've already got a script that nags you to help out everytime you install something
<Zhenech> how-can-i-help?
 * Rhonda never used sbuild, I use cowbuilder. But I probably should create me some automated build setup somehow â¦
<marnold> yes
<Rhonda> If someone is looking for packages to take care of, I'm willing to hand some of mine over, too. ;)
<marnold> wait Zhenech if you weren't joking I might be interested in yabause
<Zhenech> marnold, I never joke on IRC *cough*
<Zhenech> marnold, more seriously, happy to get new comaintainers on every single package listed there
<Rhonda> And he also never lies.
<Rhonda> deb.at/Qrhonda it is for me. ;)
<Zhenech> Rhonda, :x
<Zhenech> marnold, for yabause (and other games) there is #debian-games on oftc, where people hang around if you are interested
<Unit193> barry: Oh, you're alive again!  I'm going to slightly bother you, I'm sorry for that.  Looked into the patch any more?  Talked to bzr folks?
<barry> Unit193: no worries!  i get so swamped it's good to keep pinging me :)
<Unit193> OK, great.
<barry> Unit193: could you please remind me of the url?
<Unit193> Uhhh...
<barry> i had it in a tab but lost it :(
<Unit193> barry: New url, rather than a pastebin: https://sigma.unit193.net/source/bzr-fastimport_0.13.0-4ubuntu2.debdiff
<barry> Unit193: i suspect most bzr hackers are eow.  i'll try to remember in my monday morning, but do ping me again if needed!
<Unit193> OK, thanks!
#ubuntu-motu 2016-05-30
<alkisg> Hi, where can I find a list of the universe packages that I have upload rights for?
<alkisg> (ltsp / epoptes / possibly also mate...)
<tumbleweed> ubuntu-upload-permission can tell you if you can upload something
<alkisg> Thank you
<tumbleweed> edit-acl in ubuntu-archive tools can let you make detailed queries
<tumbleweed> and there's http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/archive-permissions/
<alkisg> tumbleweed: I'm an edubuntu developer, so I probably have upload rights for the edubuntu packageset, but `ubuntu-upload-permission ltsp` says I don't...
<alkisg> where would I find the contents of e.g. the edubuntu packageset?
<tumbleweed> ubuntu-upload-permission -a ltsp
<tumbleweed> says it's in desktop
<tumbleweed> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/yakkety/
<alkisg> Hmm I'm pretty sure that stgraber gave me the necessary rights and I uploaded ltsp for xenial... but maybe it was later on removed from the edubuntu packageset?...
<alkisg> Thanks for all the info so far, digging more...
#ubuntu-motu 2016-06-01
<cirelli94>    /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER cirelli94 quqjddhxcrqp
<Unit193> Oops.
<karstensrage> good password though :)
<Pici> verify tokens aren't passwors
#ubuntu-motu 2016-06-03
<Unit193> Logan: I updated it https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+sourcepub/6482713/+listing-archive-extra
<Logan> Unit193: context? :P
<Unit193> Logan: Pinged you a few months back, this doesn't even need to pull a new version in.  This enables the use of indicators, IIRC unity doesn't support the systray now?
<Logan> I have no clue
<Logan> I use Ubuntu headlessly :P
<Unit193> I noticed in Xubuntu, at least with my theme, it looks nicer this way too. :P
<Unit193> https://github.com/christophgysin/pasystray/issues/36 I think I'd seen this, is why.
<Logan> README.md:57-58 claims that it's necessary in Ubuntu 13.04+
<Logan> if I upload this, will you forward a patch to Debian?
<Logan> it can't hurt for them to build-depend on it as well
<Unit193> Last I saw Debian had removed a couple appindicator packages, since Ubuntu runs on snapshots it's harder to maintain.
<Logan> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libappindicator
<Logan> they still look pretty present to me :P
<Logan> I mean, it's orphaned, but it exists
<Unit193> This one is still there, though QA maintained.
<Unit193> Aye.
<Logan> worst case, the Debian maintainer says no
<Logan> but I'd rather not carry a delta wherever possible
<Logan> but yeah, I'll upload
<Unit193> Wish you could do deriv based build-deps like you can with patches.  Best you can do is force --enable-appindicator/--disable-appindicator in d/rules based on --derives-from.
<Unit193> Oh heh, fixes https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pasystray/+bug/1470483 too.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1470483 in pasystray (Ubuntu) "Please update the Package" [Undecided,New]
<Logan> Unit193: the distro-specific quilt series causes more problems than it solves
<Logan> because the Debian maintainers often forget that an Ubuntu series exists
<Logan> and don't add patches to it that are relevant to both Debian and Ubuntu
<Unit193> Heh, there is that.  Though in the case of deluge the maintainer is the same.  I actually forwarded him a patch that allows Ubuntu to directly sync.
<Logan> or they forget to refresh the patches upon a new release, and it refuses to build in Ubuntu accordingly
<Logan> but it's fine in Debian, of course :P
<Logan> that's good to hear
<Unit193> And by 'forwarded', I mean I dumped the diff in a pastebin and memoserv'd him. :P
<Unit193> Anyway, I need to find more MOTU/sponsors so I'm not pinging you all the time.
<Logan> Unit193: haha, it's okay
<Logan> I'm off for the summer, so I need things to do :P
<Logan> then I'm going to start my full-time job!
<Unit193> Nice, where at?  Or rather, what at?
<Logan> Site Reliability Engineer at LinkedIn :3
<Unit193> Hmm.
<Logan> they contribute to the open source community!
<Unit193> What springs to mind is more the recent breaches. >_>
<Unit193> But, that's nice at least!
<Logan> gah
<Logan> right, so
<Logan> the breach actually happened in 2012
<Logan> it's being...resurfaced now
<Logan> they obviously have proper salting and hashing on their passwords at this point
<Unit193> I remember that one, actually.  That's certainly good, at least they did learn.
<Logan> for sure
<Unit193> Also, here pretty soon we may be pinging you (and someone else) to review a new package for Universe. >_>
<Logan> oh dear :P
<Logan> you know how I feel about new packages in Ubuntu
<Unit193> Understandably, though path of least resistence and all. >_>
<Logan> what package is it?
<Unit193> xfdashboard.
<Logan> there's an ITP!
<Logan> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=788332
<ubottu> Debian bug 788332 in wnpp "ITP: xfdashboard -- GNOME shell like dashboard for Xfce" [Wishlist,Open]
<Unit193> Logan: Look who filed it and how long ago. :P
<Logan> oh hi bluesabre
<Unit193> Tadaaaa.  Yep.  pkg-xfce isn't so interested either, yey.
<bluesabre> uh oh, what'd I do?
<Logan> why not? I figured they'd package anything starting with "xf"
<bluesabre> pickier than you'd expect :D
<Unit193> Logan: Because there's a lot of bugreports and not a lot of people taking care of it.  Pretty much, it's just Corsac at this point.
<bluesabre> it's not like things that start with g or k :)
<Unit193> https://qa.debian.org/data/bts/graphs/by-maint/pkg-xfce-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org.png
<Logan> :(
#ubuntu-motu 2016-06-04
<Unit193> Logan: Howdy, again.  1. Can you tell me why limnoria doesn't sync?  It's not even in https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/limnoria  2. I don't suppose there's any chance I'll get https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+sourcepub/6377589/+listing-archive-extra ?
<Unit193> Re: 2.  I did actually poke Debian's maintainer,and have a MP for it on LP too.
<Logan> hi UNit
<Logan> Unit*
<Logan> hmm
<Logan> cjwatson: do you have any clue why LP isn't picking up limnoria in Debian? ^
<Logan> Unit193: I don't see why not, about the latter - have you tested it?
<Unit193> Logan: Ever since last year, and even have it in a cronjob.
<Logan> `but I'd consider asking Jelmer
<Logan> because he might just as well upload it to Debian
<Unit193> PM'd him, he's the Debian maintainer.
<Unit193> 2016-04-25.log.gz it seems.
<cjwatson> Logan: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1587667
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1587667 in dpkg (Ubuntu Xenial) "Import from Debian fails for source packages with included tarball .asc" [Undecided,New]
<cjwatson> Unit193: ^-
<Unit193> Ah, thanks.
<cjwatson> I fixed the Launchpad side of it, but need to do the dpkg SRUs still
<Logan> cjwatson: figured you'd know why :) thanks!
<Unit193> Logan: Also if I were to say I'm working towards MOTU, what would you tell me I need to improve on?
<Logan> Unit193: I guess having more things sponsored?
<Logan> usually the rule of thumb is that you're putting in too many requests, and it makes more sense to just have you on the team
<Logan> I'm not sure you're quite at that point yet
#ubuntu-motu 2018-05-28
<fossfreedom> Hi - this one is collecting lots of duplicates.  Any chance someone can sponsor it? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-split/+bug/1758120
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1758120 in gnome-split (Ubuntu) "package gnome-split 1.2-1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite directory '/usr/share/pixmaps' in package gnome-search-tool 3.6.0-2 with nondirectory" [High,Confirmed]
<tsimonq2> fossfreedom: Looking.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-06-03
<zcot> Hi. I'm stuck, from information overload. I've read way too many articles, guides and tutorials in the past few weeks. -wanting to get involved, but I'm just stuck. The packaging guides seems broken, I guess? I'm hoping someone can nudge me out of this stalemate. Is there any functioning guide to package a Hello World type of project where there is no upstream? Anybody up to chat for a few minutes or direct me to an appropriate place?
<tsimonq2> zcot: Hey there, still around?
<zcot> tsimonq2: yep. Hi.
<tsimonq2> zcot: So, you're wanting to get involved in Ubuntu Development, or you want to just learn about packaging for something else?
<tsimonq2> Either way, I'm willing to point you in the right direction. :)
<tsimonq2> (Because if it's the former of the two, this is absolutely the right place.)
<zcot> Well, I've done hobby programming for years. And just looking to get deeper into the debian/ubuntu system. I have done a simple program and figured I'd just run that through the process to learn about it.
<tsimonq2> Sure. Programming isn't exactly packaging; it's different in both spots.
<tsimonq2> zcot: Got a link to your program anywhere?
<tsimonq2> (Or is it just something you have locally?)
<zcot> Maybe I just try to learn how to do a ppa? probably with a botched packaging attempt? lol. -since I'm not getting the info right, I keep getting bad version or attempts that just fail with some bzr plugin or something.
<tsimonq2> The package guide needs some tidying up because you don't need Bazaar to do anything with a PPA. :)
<zcot> I do have it on github: https://github.com/zcot/list-apt-installs
<zcot> yea, I'm kinda questioning myself about that.. there's bzr, git, cvs, I mean I see that there's various tools to integrate with launchpad. I'm scratching my head about it.. at the fork of these things.
<tsimonq2> zcot: Do you have some packaging yet?
<zcot> I did actually "build a .deb". and it did turn around and install correctly with the package manager. But I don't understand it.. I didn't have any make file in it. I just put a 'install' file in /debian and copying things.
<tsimonq2> Oh.
<zcot> tsimonq2: no, not really. I've played with it in various ways a bunch of times. using debian dh_make, or trying through bzr plugin.. or found a guide where you just create /debian and add 4 files.
<tsimonq2> zcot: Here's what I would do if I were you (and I'm willing to help). Use dh_make in a fresh directory, after putting your source code in a .tar.gz file. Then, use https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ to understand and sort through things.
<tsimonq2> I usually just rm debian/*{ex,EX} debian/README.*
<tsimonq2> That leaves (pretty much) the core files that you can tweak.
<zcot> so, the idea is to do an out-of-tree situation. it's not about actual building in the source?
<tsimonq2> Right.
<tsimonq2> So, you tar up your source, then dh_make will prompt you for that tar.
<zcot> ok, so that's been confusing to me all along.
<tsimonq2> Maybe this might have been confusing you... there's two different types of "main" packages. You *can* do the debian packaging with the tarball, but that assumes that you're shipping the upstream right into these sources.
<tsimonq2> If you want to do other packaging for other distros, it's recommended to separate it.
<tsimonq2> Separating it is the method which is typically used and the one that I'm recommending you use.
<tsimonq2> zcot: When you have your packaging, mind throwing it somewhere so I can take a look?
<zcot> tsimonq2: ok. let me ask. when i tar up the source. what actually is that? that would be pre-configure state? correct? in my case, only cmake configuration file(and docs and such).. no binary/makefiles/object, etc?
<tsimonq2> zcot: `git clone https://github.com/zcot/list-apt-installs.git && tar cvf list-apt-installs.tar list-apt-installs` :)
<zcot> right there. ok. ;)
<zcot> tsimonq2: so, then I'll need to understand the .. probably.. /debian/rules file.
<tsimonq2> zcot: So, try taking a peek at the debian/rules file
<tsimonq2> Let me find you a few examples real quick
<zcot> I can do an attempt with the /debian stuff as far as I understand it, which I think is ok, except for probably version, maybe (native) or (quilt) thing. But that's just info, so the action stuff though. I got nothing. the cmake file needs to be called. the /usr/local/docs stuff. /man.
<zcot> yea, that would be great, because I only see some macro thing maybe from dh_make which is.. I have no clue even. O_O
<tsimonq2> (native) or (quilt) is what I described earlier with the tarball. Native is baked in with the source and Quilt is with a separate tar.
<tsimonq2> zcot: Here's a cmake-based package I maintain in Debian: https://salsa.debian.org/qt-kde-team/extras/vc/blob/master/debian/rules
<tsimonq2> Feel free to take whatever you'd like from there.
<zcot> yea.. lol O_O
<zcot> Ok.
<tsimonq2> It's a bit complex, but once you get the moving parts and what they do, it's easy. :)
<tsimonq2> When in doubt, consult the Debian Policy Manual. :D
<zcot> Alright, so I just gave up really on the /debian stuff before I committed to github. But I'll go ahead with that part, and I think with all the reading and guides I have I should be able to get really close anyway. ;)
<zcot> tsimonq2: Thank you. I appreciate it.
<tsimonq2> zcot: No problem, anytime. :)
 * tsimonq2 goes to bed, ping with any more questions if you have them. :)
<zcot> Hi tsimonq2, I made an attempt at a package and. there were a couple warnings and errors, but i do end up with a .deb. and the orig.tar.gz source, and debian.tar.xz required and control stuff, and the .dsc lists both of those packages but the .deb only installs the /usr/share/doc stuff so that's not right. But it was kinda cool anyway. lol. I don't end up with any diff around that package. had to rename /debian to /DEBIAN or vice-versa and the local
<zcot> directory ends up being some weird recursive debian debian stack of things.. I have no clue what I'm doing really. Anyway, I'll keep plugging away.
#ubuntu-motu 2019-05-30
<Eickmeyer>  We (the Ubuntu Studio team) now have two packages that need sponsoring.  (bug 1829562 and bug 1831154)
<ubottu> bug 1829562 in Ubuntu Studio "[Needs Packaging] DPF-Plugins for Eoan" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1829562
<ubottu> bug 1831154 in Ubuntu Studio Menu Add "[needs-packaging] ubuntustudio-menu-add" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1831154
<Eickmeyer> Somebody PLEASE take a look at these.
<rbasak> Eickmeyer: can I suggest you ask on ubuntu-devel@ please?
<rbasak> I would look if nobody else can, but I'm not around for a while.
<Eickmeyer> rbasak: I did.
<rbasak> Eickmeyer: but if you're struggling on IRC, I suggest the MLs because the request is a little less ephemeral then.
<Eickmeyer> rbasak: It just seems like I'm getting ignored no matter where I post.
<rbasak> Eickmeyer: I don't see a post?
<Eickmeyer> rbasak: In the past, I mean.
<Eickmeyer> Do you suggest ubuntu-motu ML, ubuntu-release ML, and/or ubuntu-devel?
<rbasak> I suggest ubuntu-devel@ as it's a general "sponsorship queue needs attention" call too, but ubuntu-motu@ is also appropriate. Email both if you wish.
<rbasak> I see that Steve sponsored lsp-plugins for you?
<Eickmeyer> He did, but it's sitting in the NEW queue. Just... sitting.
<rbasak> That needs archive admin attention, so ubuntu-release@ is appropriate for that.
<rbasak> Unfortunately the number of people who can do these reviews is limited, and the same people tend to be swamped with work :-/
<Eickmeyer> Also, I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong because these packages I've marked for sponsorship aren't even showing up in the sponsorship queue.
<rbasak> Add Ubuntu as an affected project - that's probably it.
<Eickmeyer> Okay, will do.
<rbasak> It would also help if you explained in the bugs why you aren't going via Debian (if due to buster freeze that's understandable but that'd be my immediate question so it's useful to anticipate and answer these questions in advance)
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, the buster freeze is a big part of it.
<Eickmeyer> For ubuntustudio-menu-add, that's a native package. Needs not be in Debian.
<rbasak> That makes sense
<rbasak> Anyway I hope that's helpful.
 * rbasak disappears again
<Eickmeyer> rbasak: Thanks. :)
#ubuntu-motu 2019-05-31
<teward> Eickmeyer: FYI the sponsorship queue takes some time to 'regenerate' :P
<teward> just saying
<Eickmeyer> teward: Yeah, I found that out.
