#ubuntu-fridge 2007-08-13
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-fridge.log
<tck> hi
<tck> just wondering why the fridge doesn't show the latest https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue52
<tck> because well there's a meeting on tomorrow and well maybe people might not see it in time
<Rinchen> tck, I see 49, 50, and 51.  52 was submitted apparently
<tck> ok
<Rinchen> er 52 was NOT submitted. sorry tck
<tck> Rinchen, say 10 hail marys please ;)
<Rinchen> hehe
<beuno> tck: that's my fault, I haven't had time to submit it
<beuno> it will be on there by the end of the day  :D
<tck> ouch
<tck> replication takes that long? :P
<beuno> tck: it shouldn't now  :(
<beuno> er,  "no"
<leftyfb> I would like to put in a request for an article on the Fridge please :)
<leftyfb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/Projects/AluminiumCaseBadges
<leftyfb> The badges are VERY nice and are getting really popular. The more orders we get, the cheaper the price will be.
<tck> leftyfb, i saw this being mentioned in ubuntu-uk chan the other day
<tck> have you decided on which design ?
<leftyfb> not yet
<tck> i think the black works better
<tck> stands out more
<leftyfb> I like either
<tck> yes both are good
<leftyfb> so how is it people go about getting articles up on the fridge?
* tck pokes Rinchen beuno 
<beuno> tck: I'm here, what can I help you with?
<tck> i was just helping leftyfb
<leftyfb> you were? :)
<leftyfb> we were talking, but I don't recall seeing an answer to my inquiries :)
<Rinchen> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/about
<tck> surely stickers belong on a fridge ;)
<leftyfb> ;)
<tck> fridge-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
#ubuntu-fridge 2007-08-14
<Rinchen> jenda, nixternal - are you guys coming to UDS Boston?  I'm thinking about putting together a fridge session
<nixternal> don't know yet
<nixternal> United States Government is taking their sweet arse time on my request
<Rinchen> That would be normal :-)
<Rinchen> I'm off. I'll catch up with you guys tomorrow.
<jenda> nixternal: watchya requesting?
<jenda> and no, I won't be coming to the UDS :/
<LaserJock> anybody around?
<LaserJock> beuno, nixternal: pingy pingy pingy
<mdke> LaserJock: I'm around, does that help?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I'm concerned that Fridge just isn't getting news up fast enough
<LaserJock> I was talking to #ubuntu-us and somebody was saying "I don't use Fridge for news anymore, it's always behind other outside sources"
<beuno> LaserJock: pongy
<mdke> LaserJock: yes; that's been true for a long time really
<beuno> erhm, that does seem true
<LaserJock> mdke: exactly
<LaserJock> so I'm on the warpath, what can we do to "fix" this?
<LaserJock> how do other sources get things before we do?
<LaserJock> I suspect we have a lot of delay in getting our stories reviewed
<beuno> LaserJock: I think it has something to do with the queue process, and that other sources are actually people's blog, so they are much more careful with getting it out asap
<mdke> to be honest, it's less to do with the queue process (which is usually turned around withina  few hours) than to do with the fact that it takes us a long time to write stories; seeing as how there are few contributors with very little time
<mdke> the queue process is pretty streamlined, imo
<LaserJock> obviously it'd be nice to get news ahead of time, but Canonical at least, seems unwilling to do so
<mdke> even turning around a new piece of Canonical news within 24 hours of it being posted on the website would be acceptable, it's just that we don't seem to have the resources to do so
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> the people I talked to seem to want it like within the hour
<LaserJock> perhaps people have unrealistic expectations of Fridge?
<mdke> that's weird; in a virtual world, news always filters relatively slowly
<LaserJock> well, for a lot of things Planet seems faster than Fridge, I think
<mdke> generally, where people have a vested interest in the story, then it appears quickly on the Fridge (like where a Canonical employee has written it), but for general news, people don't have the motivation to write it up quickly
<mdke> LaserJock: that's because planet has more contributors in more timezones though; and less concern about quality control
<LaserJock> ok, so maybe emphasizing Fridge as high quality news might help?
<mdke> yeah, but we'd have to back that up with high quality news :(
<beuno> the quality bit is what delays me most of the time, I can't just blur it out in 5 minutes
<LaserJock> mdke: blah, we just tell them it's high quality ;-)
<LaserJock> hmm, the stories I write usually take 5-10 minutes
<mdke> LaserJock: maybe if we do that, then it will put the editors under enough pressure to produce some :)
<mdke> bbl
<LaserJock> well, and here's maybe another distinction
<LaserJock> do we want to report on what's already happening, sort of an aggregator
<LaserJock> or do we want to "make" the news
<LaserJock> when it comes to aggregation there's already very good non-human sources on the net
<LaserJock> Planet being one
<LaserJock> but most of the stuff I've done is basically just rediting what somebody has already sent me
<beuno> LaserJock: maybe some people aren't reading the fridge, and we should highlight stuff on the planet?
<LaserJock> well, my experience has been that more people read Fridge than read Planet
<LaserJock> when I put a Behind MOTU interview on Fridge my hits were 3 times higher than what they had been on Planet
<LaserJock> I'm not so much thinking that people don't really go to Fridge
<LaserJock> but I think they go to Fridge for the meeting schedule more than the news
<beuno> LaserJock: so what do you think we can do?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> your back :-)
<LaserJock> beuno: I've got a story up in the queue if you've got a minute
<beuno> LaserJock: I'm on it
<beuno> LaserJock: it's out  :D
<LaserJock> wahoo, we're speedy :-)
<LaserJock> well, before you left I was thinking of some things
<LaserJock> just brainstorming
<LaserJock> I wonder if having more of an aggregator style News section
<LaserJock> then having more in-depth real Stories section
<beuno> LaserJock: I was thinking too, that most of the times I'm unsure if a news story is fridge-worthy or not
<LaserJock> beuno: yeah
<LaserJock> I wonder if it's worth sort of having a dumping ground for anything useful, basically the "In the Press" section
<LaserJock> where we're linking to something
<LaserJock> there's a difference between just aggregating news
<LaserJock> and writing news stories
#ubuntu-fridge 2007-08-15
* #ubuntu-fridge  [freenode-info]  why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-fridge.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-fridge.log
<mdke> Rinchen: cool thanks
<Rinchen> done
<Rinchen> off for food
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kubrick.freenode.net
<LaserJock> new story in Fridge
<LaserJock> somebody please have a look
<mdke> I will
<mdke> LaserJock: would you do an ubuntu-docs upload in return? Just bump the version number and say "new material" or something; packaging should be unchanged I hope
<LaserJock> no dholbach eh?
<mdke> he's on holiday until friday ish
<LaserJock> oh, right
<LaserJock> mdke: current revision is 4224 right?
<mdke> LaserJock: looks like 4244
<LaserJock> heh, just my dyslexia
<mdke> article's live, nice one
<LaserJock> mdke: do we ship libs/pdf/ ?
<mdke> LaserJock: dunno
<LaserJock> the answer is no
<LaserJock> a lot has changed in generic/
<mdke> libs/pdf is shipped in my version
<LaserJock> hmm, its not in 7.07.1
<mdke> ah, did you run the magic delete script?
<LaserJock> nope
<mdke> (I forgot to)
<mdke> do that
<LaserJock> I'm cowboying it
<mdke> see the README.Debian file, i think
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> that helped :-)
<mdke> good
<mdke> sorry, I forgot about that bit
<LaserJock> me too
<LaserJock> ok, source package built
<LaserJock> I'll just do a quick test build and then upload
<LaserJock> mdke: uploaded
#ubuntu-fridge 2007-08-16
<Rinchen> mdke, to be clear about my last email. I'm just volunteering to be the Canonical contact for the Fridge so the team HAS one. I'm not the leader.
<Rinchen> it's a community thing so me leading it would be inappropriate
<Rinchen> although, I admit, I'm trying to help as best I can
<Rinchen> and I hope it's appreciated. If not then please tell me.
* beuno hugs Rinchen
<Rinchen> lol
<Rinchen> oh, beuno
<Rinchen> glad you are here
<Rinchen> I completely forgot
<Rinchen> One of the thoughts I had, which has not been cleared anywhere...
<Rinchen> was to think about taking Ubuntu Stats and making it semi-official in that we'd host it and make it available. Maybe as a link to the fridge
<Rinchen> er, OFF of the fridge
<Rinchen> Think about that with your guys and let me know if it is of interest.
<Rinchen> I'm totally ok with it as is
<beuno> Rinchen: I'm VERY interested  :D
<beuno> I'm having performance issues and can't handle the load on my servers
<Rinchen> I thought of this in terms of how to draw more people to the fridge and thought of the fridge as the big poster board of news items with all sorts of whizzbang dials (aka the ubuntu stats stuff)
<beuno> I've had some help from mitchm, but it doesn't seem enough
<beuno> sure, I love the idea
<Rinchen> ah good. mitchm is down the road here so that's easy
<Rinchen> I'd need to run the base code by the web and server team before I could go further
<beuno> and, if you're around tomorrow, I can tell you a bit of what the roadmap is  :D
<Rinchen> ooh, I like roadmaps
<beuno> what you see know is the tip of the iceberg  :D
<beuno> know == now
<Rinchen> My fear with stats is that, while I have planned daily stats for Launchpad, I don't think I have the performance to do realtime
<Rinchen> so I may run into your exact problem
<beuno> Rinchen: probably, yes  :D
<beuno> but on the other hand, it's not that big of a problem, I just have small servers
<Rinchen> but, if you recall something Mark said at Ubuntu Live....
<Rinchen> something about APIs
<beuno> oh, I wasn't there  :(
<Rinchen> LP is getting APIs
<beuno> APIs for launchpad?  that would rock!
<Rinchen> indeed
<Rinchen> our gathering of great minds is in two weeks but we've had this idea around for some time
<Rinchen> my thought:
<Rinchen> I might be able to reduce the performance demands by using the APIs
<Rinchen> so you could continue as is
<Rinchen> however, I'd again need a copy of the code to give to the devs
<beuno> absolutely, I'm parsing emails instead of getting the information directly
<Rinchen> so they could use it as a "use case" when building the API structure.
<beuno> APIs should cut performance problem by 10
<Rinchen> or more :-)
<beuno> well, the code is here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-marketing/ubuntu-stats/devel
<Rinchen> oh great!
<beuno> although it's not copy'n'paste because we tweak a lot on the server, and right now it's split into two
<beuno> and the code is uuuuuuugly
<beuno> very ugly
<Rinchen> The Fridge team would have to approve the idea of hanging this off the Fridge and such
<beuno> but, it works  :D
<Rinchen> just my idea at the moment
<Rinchen> but I can at least try to get those APIs for you so your existing service will be better
<beuno> I'd love if it would have a more oficial embracement
<beuno> Rinchen: I would have to send you a case of beer if you do that  :D
<Rinchen> well, we do have some level of this internally today but implemented completely different and not real-time
<Rinchen> so we've been using your most excellent concept to show us the way forward
<beuno> Rinchen: the next two things that you will be seing out the door for ubuntustats are:   "Ubuntu Weekly Stats", for the UWN, based on all the info we gather
<beuno> aaaaaaaaand
<beuno> the one I like most
* beuno looks for the URL
<Rinchen> excellent...this is where I was going with my own stats project before you did yours
<Rinchen> so I'm happy to see it done
<Rinchen> and happy to help where I can
<beuno> I can't find it right now, we're moving stuff around so I'm a bit dizzy
<beuno> anyway
<beuno> you would embed an image in, for example, a forum thread
<beuno> and that image would reflect a bug status
<beuno> and of course, it updates when the bug does
<beuno> so when you land on a thread
<beuno> you know what the CURRENT status of the bug is  :D
<Rinchen> how interesting. I'm going to share that with MPT if you don't mind.
<beuno> sure
<beuno> who is MPT?
<Rinchen> lol
<Rinchen> sorry, mpt (irc nick) is the LP interface designer and usability engineer
<beuno> I've been trying to get this done by the launchpad devs, and then the forum people, but no one wanted to do it
<Rinchen> and we've been cooking up some good ideas on how to improve LP
<beuno> Rinchen: oooh, "matthew paul thomas"?
<Rinchen> that's the one
<Rinchen> today the connection from image to status in what you described is not doable
<Rinchen> just no way
<Rinchen> but with API's
<beuno> well, it's done on my side, every time the subscribed email address to ubuntu bugs get an email
<Rinchen> you could do a bug watch of sorts and pull the status and set the image yourself
<beuno> it checks what changed
<beuno> updated the DB
<beuno> updates de image
<beuno> ta-daaaa
<Rinchen> yep, same concept except with api
<beuno> yeap
<beuno> very easily interchangeable
<beuno> and much faster
<beuno> if I could access launchpad with APIs instead of emails
<Rinchen> absolutely
<beuno> cool, I'm happy there is some interest in the project
<beuno> I wasn't sure what people thought since after it got dugg it didn't get anymore attention
<Rinchen> So I've emailed the bug image and ubuntustats and ask them to be treated as use cases for the APIs (the first step).   Assuming that is accepted then once the APIs appear we would have the tech available to put this on the Fridge...so it would be ok at that time to see if people like or hate the idea
<Rinchen> The stats stuff is amazing. The only thing missing is pretty graphs :-)
<Rinchen> and you probably have them
<Rinchen> or gave the data to carthik :-)
<beuno> it's on the roadmap
<beuno> heheh
<beuno> anyway, I'm heading home
<beuno> thanks a lot for everything Rinchen, and keep on pushing for the fridge, we're very thankful for it!   :D
<Rinchen> sometimes I wonder :-)
<Rinchen> but I'm glad
<Rinchen> I'm off too... LoCo is arriving to learn Esperanto
<Rinchen> hehe
#ubuntu-fridge 2007-08-17
<tck> Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter, Issue #52 never got uploaded ?
<beuno> tck: no no, I forgot!
<beuno> I'll add it now
<beuno> if any editors are around and speak french
<beuno> I need someone to complete this story for me:  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1086
<beuno> :D
<beuno> aaaaaand the UWN #52 is in the queue  :D
<tck> ;)
<mdke> beuno: UWN live. But we agreed with Corey that for UWN posts there is no need to get review, you can just post it straight away
<beuno> mdke: great, that sounds reasonable, thanks  :D
<newz2000> doing a drupal update on fridge
<LaserJock> newz2000: oh? from what to what?
<newz2000> 4.7.6 to 4.7.7
<newz2000> nothing big. :-)
<LaserJock> \o/ ;-)
<newz2000> ok, done.
<LaserJock> gonna skip 5.1?
<newz2000> we'll go to 5.2 before too much longer
<newz2000> I'm not quite raeady yet though
<LaserJock> mhm
<Rinchen> did someone say drupal update? Yeay!
