#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-26
<bmonty_laptop> hi all
<xlightwaverx> hello
<xlightwaverx> i am very new to ubuntu, but i would just like to say that it is amazing.
<xlightwaverx> i have used debian for years, but this is takes care of all the configuration for me.
<xlightwaverx> just like to say gj guys and gals. keep up the good work.
<xlightwaverx> cya
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ |  21 Sept 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Sept 20:00 UTC:  LoCo Teams  | 22 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 23 Sep 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 4 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechnicalBoard
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu update meeting in 3 mins
<JaneW> hi all
<ogra> hi all
<JaneW> so just the 2 of us ;)
* magnon waves
<ogra> ah
<JaneW> hi magnon
<magnon> hey :P
<ogra> flint wanted to come iirc
<JaneW> we'll give him 2 mins
<ogra> at least he said "see you tomorrow" this night
<JaneW> I need to leave in 75 mons, so let try stick to an hour if at all possible
<ogra> 75 mons ? phew
<JaneW> ogra: perhaps he's on a plane.. make up a bed!
<ogra> heh
<Treenaks> 75 mons? that's like 6.25 yrs
<JaneW> sigh
<JaneW> ok ogra, you're up... :)
<ogra> anyway, i have not much to update today... the screensaver stuff ate most of my time the last week... so i only managed to do minor stuff on edubuntu
<JaneW> did mdz manage to talk to sabdfl yet?
<ogra> our worst bug is solved, thatns to a patch from linus torvalds... :)
<JaneW> is there a resolution on the screensaver issue yet?
<ogra> it should be fixed in the next upload of linux-source...
<JaneW> yay, does petter et al know?
<ogra> nope, we have to wait for sabdfl
<JaneW> so what are you doing in the mean time? sitting tight and waiting?
<ogra> i dont know if petter et al did know about it
<ogra> doing my edubuntu stuff, i have enough things left to fix... 
<JaneW> nod
<ogra> xss can wait... if we go with xss instead of gss i have to demote a day for the changes, but not now
<magnon> JaneW: apparently the screensaver issue solution seems to be "revert"
<JaneW> ok so you're off s-s until you get an answer?
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> magnon: yes the unanimous consentous is revert
<JaneW> consensus
<JaneW> but sabdfl wanted it in
<JaneW> so he has to approve taking it out
<ogra> i'll prepare new artwork in a weekend session, but thats something i consider sparetime work
<JaneW> ogra: yes
<ogra> ah, artwork
<JaneW> ogra: what's still needed?
<ogra> we have a shiny CD bootscreen now, edubuntu branded
<ogra> and i sent jbailey a edubuntu usplash screen, but dont know if it will/can get included
<JaneW> I saw that
<JaneW> the black screen with gold?
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> who designed it?
<ogra> the small one is the first thing you see booting t CD, the bigger one you see at every boot
<ogra> i designed it
<JaneW> I don;t love the blackness that much...
<JaneW> I like the concept though
<ogra> its hard to do something else with 14 colors
<Kamion> the blackness is necessary
<sladen> JaneW: blackness is what monitors tend to be
<Kamion> it looks silly otherwise when centred on a black screen
<JaneW> sladen: good point ;)
<JaneW> in that case - it's great!
<sladen> :)
<magnon> ogra: is that 14 colors of choice as a palette, or 14 preset tones?
* magnon has no idea :P
<Treenaks> magnon: palette, you have 16 colors, one of which should be "almost black" and one "almost white"
<Treenaks> magnon: the rest is up to the logo designer
<JaneW> ogra: do you need someone to help with any of gthe artwork?
<JaneW> ogra: I can ask highvoltage or Javacide to assist
<ogra> my todo: moodle fixes, (i had this planned for the time when i was struck by screensaver stuff) should be done before the weekend
<ogra> JAnenope
<magnon> Treenaks: should be possible to do something a bit fancy then :)
<ogra> - 2 ltsp fixes... (time consuming for the installer part) 
<JaneW> gcompris?
<ogra> probably a gcompris update if mdz llows, else i have to fix a hanfull of issues here (mostly missing pictures)
<JaneW> do you think mdz would allow?
<JaneW> I am thinking not...
<ogra> depends, the bug i have is from an upstream guy, lets see what mdz says, i'm fine with both options... updating would be nicer though
<JaneW> have you asked mdz yet?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> i'll do it today
<JaneW> can you try asap?
<JaneW> please
<JaneW> cool, thanks
<JaneW> is anyone giving you proper testing feedback?
<JaneW> the feedback page is still empty :/
<JaneW> http://www.edubuntu.org/PreviewReleaseFeedback/
<ogra> dont worry we have a working gcompris already... as i said it doesnt matter how i solve the bugs...
<ogra> i get regular feedback from jelkner and flint on IRC
<JaneW> do we know more or less how many ppl have d/led and install edubuntu (preview)
<ogra> i had feedback from highvoltage
<ogra> nope
<JaneW> jsgotangco and mhz?
<ogra> jsgotangco only uses the wrokstatio version... 
<ogra> he tested the server install once afaik
<JaneW> do you think we could call for testers on u-d? or would that not be allowed?
<ogra> all in al we're really lacking here
<ogra> sure thats allowed
<JaneW> ok, let's do it
<Kamion> JaneW: I think that's fine as long as you direct feedback elsewhere
<ogra> but note that you need the hardware to test ltsp
<JaneW> Kamion: ok thanks, will do
<Kamion> let's not clutter u-d with Edubuntu test reports
<ogra> we have our own -devel list, answers should go there
<JaneW> Kamion: ok we'll ask them to post on our wiki and e-d
<JaneW> we also need more edubuntu BOF topics for UBZ
<ogra> oh, and on a sidenote: schooltool was updated today to the most recent version
<JaneW> please add these to the 2 pages assigned
<JaneW> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs
<JaneW> and
<ogra> JaneW, i'll put up a list if i have some more time...
<ogra> but i still need to know if we'll have a edubuntu summit... i dont want to talk about app selection at all at UBZ 
<JaneW> http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuBelowZero
<JaneW> so far we only have a smattering from flint
<JaneW> yet we are planning a full track, so we'll need to flesh it out
<JaneW> ogra: please do - else we'll take the week to discuss app selection ;)
<ogra> exactly... and thats pretty counter productive
<JaneW> ogra: yes, I need to wait for sabdfl to get back to finalise that
<ogra> yup
<ogra> thats why i havent put up anything yet
<JaneW> ogra: but lets assume (and hope) for a yes, we'll plan around it if it's a no
<JaneW> ogra: but we still need to maximise this time together , and with the LTSP guys
<ogra> we'll have to support thick and half thick clients as well as centralized user management, these shoudl precisely be specced out by the end of UBZ
<JaneW> ogra: back tracking now, do you not want me to ask javavcide (Steve Torrefranca) to help you with more of the artwork requirements?
<ogra> why ? 
<ogra> what should he do ? 
<JaneW> ogra: no idea, I was just wondering if you had lots you still need to do, and if any design is involved...
<ogra> we have a handfull of artwork to choose from its just a matter of which picture i put into the package
<JaneW> oic
<ogra> all i have to do is either ltsp or packaging related...
<JaneW> ok
<ogra> the rest is done so far... (despite bugs that might come up due to additional testing) 
<JaneW> then re the CDs.. last week sabdfl indicated we could print off a small run
<JaneW> I think he said a few 1000
<ogra> 12942 would need a lot more testing
<JaneW> so we need to arrange some packaging etc for that, and make sure it gets done.
<ogra> yup
<ogra> i think thats soething you could contact javacide for...
<ogra> execpt sabdfl/silbs want to use the agency to make the artwork
<JaneW> agency?
<ogra> graphics desiger ? 
<ogra> i thought it was a company
<ogra> the person/company who does all our artwork 
<JaneW> not sure
<JaneW> I used a cape town guy for our logo
<JaneW> mark used him for the HBD stuff
<JaneW> he didn't do the ubuntu stuff though
<ogra> oh, i thought so
<ogra> but i think we have a company caring for the CD stuff
<JaneW> ok, I'll have to find out...
<ogra> so its a matter of silbs/sabdfl decision for the printing etc
<JaneW> yes
<ogra> i dont think its immediately urgent to have it ready with the ubuntu release, we are not bound to that with pressed CDs
<JaneW> do you think we should give the main edubuntu community members a stack to hand out in their communities and at events they attend?
<JaneW> Like mhz - Chile
<ogra> yup
<ogra> fabbione, asked for 500
<JaneW> jsgotangco - Philipines
<ogra> for denmark
<JaneW> magnon - Norway etc
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> I'll ask for 10 000
<magnon> \o/
<JaneW> but we may get 5000 (or less?)
<ogra> that'd be fine
<JaneW> not sure what a couple of 1000 will end up being
<jsgotangco> am i late???
<flint_> is is morning time yet
<ogra> JaneW, you forgot flint -> US
<JaneW> oh and I suppose we'll have to arrange to send some to flint ;)
<jsgotangco> i didnt know there was a meeting
<magnon> JaneW: Actually I was in talk with... uhm... who was it
<magnon> anyway
<JaneW> flint_: over slept?
<magnon> about printing localized (or scandinavian perhaps) Ubuntu CDs
<flint_> one word...WIFE.
<JaneW> lol
<magnon> if that's something I could get working at some point, edubuntu would be natural to include :)
<JaneW> magnon:  cool
<ogra> magnon, i didnt push the final list of languages on the CD (that will be aht will fill the remaining 50MB on the amd64 and x86 CDs)
<magnon> oh, cool
<ogra> powerpc will have to live with english only and net install for other langs...
<ogra> there is only 1MB left :)
<JaneW> ogra: that's tight!
<ogra> JaneW, thas ppc
<JaneW> ogra: fill it with 1kb readme.txt files
<JaneW> ;)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> we wont have many ppc people out there... and remember, edubuntu is built in a way that you can even use ubuntu to install it...
<ogra> i.e. install ubuntu and put edubuntu-desktop on top of it... 
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> that's what i use atm
<jsgotangco> (i actually prefer it over our ubuntu)
<ogra> yup thats what our WS install is
<JaneW> jsgotangco: now that you are here, are there any doc updates?
<jsgotangco> i've put them up on the wiki
<jsgotangco> i'm about to send to ogra the xml file of about ubuntu
<JaneW> jsgotangco: great to hear btw!
<jsgotangco> so that he'll be able to put in on yelp
<ogra> ah, updates :)
<JaneW> btw we are looking at getting the About Ubuntu page redesigned
<flint_> I would like to personally thank and congradulate Oliver Grawert, who will henceforth be known as Gandalf to me for slaying the Dreaded Sauron - Also known as the Lord of the Rings (lotr) Login...
<jsgotangco> sorry about the cookbook, it won't get in
<ogra> jsgotangco, can i also get a html version ? 
<jsgotangco> ogra sure
<ogra> great ... 
<jsgotangco> i'll just have to do some scripts later
<ogra> for the ff homepage
<jsgotangco> ogra: please update the release notes as well
<jsgotangco> its all in the wiki
<JaneW> sad about the cook book, but what can we do...
<ogra> flint_, LOL
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i have yet to email the list on contributions to it
<JaneW> jsgotangco: ok
<ogra> flint_, sadly it didnt make it into the release... so we are doomed to the tgz
<flint_> Two plucky mental hobbits delivered the killing blow to the all seeing eye yesterday afternoon at the Mt. Ranier Library.  This journey was not without peril, as one of the Hobbits, Paul (not the ring bearer) managed to cock up the install.  
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i got to talk to two universities who are willing to contribute in the future
<ogra> in fact it was my wrong list of instructions, thanks again for helping to sort it for further installs flint_ 
<flint_> My humble question Gandalf (ollie) is will the patch be included in release any time soon, or could I script the patch?  Better yet, could I write a trilogy and have a movie made of it?
<ogra> heh
<jsgotangco> (it helped that i am in an IT roadshow at the moment)
<shaga> :D
<flint_> here is the roadshow, what firm...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: cool, in what way?
<flint_> where is the roadshow, what firm...
<ogra> flint_, it will get included eventually, but i doubt mdz will accept it now ... so we'll have to wait for dapper here... i'll think about a way to script it or even make a deb you can install manually that cares for it 
<jsgotangco> JaneW: apps, documentation, testing...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: cool :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: we need testers/testing and feedback right now
<jsgotangco> they've seen Edubuntu running thanks to Linux World
<JaneW> yay - well done
<jsgotangco> the choice to put in Blender was very very good
<flint_> jsgotangco: absolutely, I just am most happy with the lotr login patch.  Makes a big difference in the look of edubuntu.
<jsgotangco> we actually had a situation during LinuxWorld that Edubuntu saved the day - because it had Blender
<ogra> yay
<jsgotangco> there was a Blender track and the guy didn't bring a laptop
<ogra> cool
<flint_> mdz was whining about blender, excellent!
<JaneW> heh
<ogra> flint_, dz was whining about any things :)
<jsgotangco> no! it was a good choice!
<ogra> mdz even
* JaneW is thinking of the 'frog in the blender' flash applet now
<ogra> many even
<jsgotangco> too bad blenders help files are all online
<flint_> do not let it get pushed out, ta hell with German and French language support!
<flint_> (ok that was meant to be funny :^)
<JaneW> flint_: er... remeber where ogra comes from ;)
<ogra> heh
<flint_> please god not france :^)
<JaneW> LOL
<ogra> flint_, i'll add languages as very last pacages if i'm sure nothing will change anymore and space is there
<JaneW> that's resonable
<JaneW> there's nothing else we can do right now
<JaneW> ogra: any news on the DVD sabdfl was tlaking of?
<JaneW> it is a possibility still
<jsgotangco> i doubt that
<flint_> ollie, i remain convinced that there could be an innovation in language file compression.  where could we look for such a thing?
<ogra> JaneW, i think thats rather something for dapper, but Kamion will know if i just can reuse the CD iso and add up stuff until i reach the 4GB
<flint_> as I see it, even 5 or 10 percent better packing could be significant to your life, dear Gandalf.
<ogra> if the latter is possibel easily, a DVD is possible too
<JaneW> ogra: ok, so should we not worry to much for now...?
<ogra> flint_, pitti and carlos in #ubuntu-devel are the language-pack gods
<JaneW> ogra: 3 weeks tomorrow to release day...
<ogra> yup
<flint_> jeez, are we talking space problems on the edubuntu dvd now?
<ogra> nope :)
<ogra> grin
<flint_> gotacha pitti and carlos
<JaneW> ogra: how does that make you feel on a scale of totally unconcerbed - to hysterical panic... ? ;)
<JaneW> i.e. 'are we there yet?'
<ogra> JaneW, if i can do what i described above, a DVD is possible even some days before release (indeed with a marker that it didnt recieve testing)
<JaneW> (ogra nah I think leave the DVD, but I'll check with sabdfl on that)
<ogra> not completely but nothing that isnt solvable before release
<Kamion> we can trivially build DVDs
<Kamion> I've been doing so for Ubuntu for ages
<JaneW> kamion: ok, good to hear. Thanks
<ogra> i dont see any reasoin to be worried... but i also didnt see it before preview when everyone freaked out
<Kamion> it's just a question of getting them tested
<flint_> regarding the lotr patch, jane as his new manager I ask you if I have your permission to put the lean on him...
<Kamion> my experience has been that it's very hard to get people to test DVD images
<ogra> Kamion, with just adding stuff to the proven CD iso ? 
<Kamion> ogra: separate cdimage run
<JaneW> flint_: lean on whom?
<ogra> Kamion, yes, but i mean installer etc identical ? 
<Kamion> ogra: yes
<ogra> great :)
<flint_> janew put the lean on mdz
<Kamion> ogra: for Ubuntu it contains both install and live images; wouldn't have to do that for Edubuntu necessarily
<JaneW> flint_: bwahaha - one can try...
<ogra> Kamion, yup, most interesting would be to have all alngs added 
<Kamion> ogra: that happens automatically; the DVD contains everything in the project's supported set
<flint_> dear jane you have a great evil genius laugh...ever consider motion pictures?
<flint_> here is a stoopid question, Gandalf (ollie), could you magically fit all three architectures onto one DVD
<JaneW> ogra: what's the issue with the lotr patch? Didn't make it in in time?
<Kamion> flint_: not right now
<ogra> JaneW, i wrote a login manager thats themeable, the current one looks ugly...
<Kamion> flint_: I'm told it's perfectly possible to build such an image, but the problem is doing it sanely, automatically, and maintainably
<Kamion> and debian-cd really isn't up to the task
<jsgotangco> 6GB *shudder*
<JaneW> ogra: right, and it was too late to include or what?
<ogra> JaneW, it wrote it over one weekend but mdz didnt accept it as patch and my arch repo didnt work so he didnt want to include it (it was even after feature freeze)
<flint_> the theamable login manager (by now famous lotr patch)  is a sensational addition.  It must go in.  Sauron must die
<JaneW> ogra? flint_ : tough, I don't think mdz is too amenable to adding more stuff now. Seriously
<ogra> JaneW, he thought i write it in my worktime and was quite angry about it... its a topic i wouldnt like to discuss again... but feel free :)
<JaneW> flint_: yah, but we have a timeline (in Dr Evil voice)
<flint_> jane put it to matt that this makes up for the default desktop colour, and he will love you for it.
<ogra> s/write/wrote/
<flint_> I will wake the beast and slay him this very morning my queen. (in very likely dead prince voice)
<JaneW> flint_: forget it we just a had a huge issue about the screensavers
<JaneW> I doubt anything will get through now with out good reason and mdz wanting it
<flint_> I know this jane...
<ogra> i think its essential for success... and i agree with flint... but it can still go into dapper... what we have now is ugly but works
<flint_> let me work on him.  It is most beautiful, and a fine bit of a hack.
<JaneW> ogra: same as the s-s argument then...
<JaneW> flint_: go ahead
<ogra> JaneW, probably a nagging flint_ s a good argument to convince mdz ? 
<flint_> ...on the other hand, it makes an interesting enhancement - thanks jane will do.
<JaneW> flint_: I am sure you have more influence over mdz than we do...
* ogra can imagine its hard to resist flint_ if he really wants something
<flint_> no one has any influence over the dark lord...
<ogra> especially if you are mdz :)
<\sh> flint_: despite harry potter ,-)
<flint_> oi!
<ogra> hey \sh
<JaneW> ok what else?
<ogra> joining the edubuntu forces now ?
<\sh> ogra: when I read the announcement on heise.de...I think we need all hands on edubuntu  
<JaneW> highvoltage is working on a website design, he is hoping to have something to show by beg of next week
<ogra> i think thats all, i gues ill have a lot more checkmarks to present on my todo next week... (without xss porbs inbetween)
<JaneW> \sh we do, wanna install and test?
<\sh> JaneW: when i have the hardware...I would do it...but I don't have the hardware
<JaneW> ogra: ok you keep at it, I'll send a message to u-d calling for testers
<ogra> you have 
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> ogra: and I'll follow up on edu summit #2 and CD printing issues etc
<ogra> JaneW, ok
<JaneW> thanks everyone
<flint_> Jane regarding hardware, do we want to rattle IBM's cage?  They owe me a favor right now.
<JaneW> and please add to BOF lists
<JaneW> sure
<\sh> ogra: where do i have the hardware? I mean I have to come to your place again and test it with your server :)
<ogra> \sh, you have two laptops... :) 
<ogra> one as server one as client ....
<flint_> anyone who thinks they deserve an IBM X-series server email me (flint@flint.com) lets see what I can hussle.
<jsgotangco> MMEEEEEEE
<Kamion> so, do you guys want me to start building an Edubuntu DVD twice-weekly?
<\sh> ogra: sure..but one I need to fix universe
<jsgotangco> I can test a DVD
<ogra> flint_, i'll probably come back to you after release :)
<jsgotangco> it'll take time to get it though
<Kamion> indeed, that's the usual problem
<ogra> Kamion, thatd be uber cool :)
<Kamion> they rsync fairly well
<\sh> flint_: x-series? what is it in HP models?
<ogra> Kamion, i can test it here...
<Kamion> you can start with an Edubuntu CD and rsync that to a DVD
<ogra> yup
<jsgotangco> wow
<Kamion> ogra: righto, I'll set that up later today
<jsgotangco> i didnt know that
<ogra> yippie :=
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> ok i'll rsync when ogra gives a go =)
<flint_> IBM X-series are 2 U rack mount multiprocessor server class intel engines....with all the trimmings...
<magnon> flint_: push Sun instead? I'd have a new Fire in my living room ;)
<\sh> flint_: for ubuntu testing and fixing I could need one..so I can use the second laptop as testserver for edubuntu ;)
<flint_> magnon, is sun running intel on the sunfire?
<magnon> flint_: amd64
<magnon> they look and perform awesome
<flint_> ...interesting and worth testing on.  I know where one is in the trunk of someones Toyota, but that is another story...
<jsgotangco> flint_:  you have access to those?
<ogra> flint_, i'll need some server for testing for dapper... a bunch of clients as well... currently all my testing is done with only one client... but i think thats something canonical should sponsor, not one of our users :)
<flint_> I am going to pull some favors.  email me offline.
<magnon> flint_: I'll probably be getting some of those - I'll be trying to establish a thin client env test lab, and I thought of using'em
<jsgotangco> i'd love one but space would be a problem
<flint_> Gandalf, the magic is always about the magician, never about the firm.
<magnon> also I'm getting nice clients from a norwegian manufacturer to a very nice price
<magnon> flint_: IBM xSeries servers don't look near as nice as sunfire ;)
* ogra has a empty 2m height server cabinet standing around :)
<jsgotangco> ogra: lucky you, i live in a capsule!
<flint_> jsgotangco: right you are, they are only 3.5" high (2 RU) but you can land an airplane on them.
<magnon> flint_: I'd like to see test reports on that
<magnon> :P
<flint_> the damn things are (or course) 19" wide, but they are at least 2 feet long.
<ogra> yes, but it only takes space currently... i dont use it at all as well as the 3KV UPS 
<jsgotangco> 2Us are too much for me if it was only 1U, it would fit
<magnon> jsgotangco: sunfire!
<flint_> Ollie, you use an ext3 file system, you don't NEED no stinking UPS!
<flint_> (lol :^))
<ogra> flint_, for all the network devices around... 
<jsgotangco> i'd rather haver server class laptops if they existed...
<Mithrandir> jsgotangco: it's called "blades"
<ogra> my power drops occasionally... so its cool to have it for the DSL route etc... its just a bit oversized fot this :)
<flint_> ....ok...
<\sh> flint_: that's ok...I have place in my living room, next to my desk
<\sh> actually...I should collect hardware instead of furniture ;)
<flint_> \sh: put ikea legs on it and it could BE your desk.
<ogra> magnon, did you already test the suns with ubuntu ? i had some installer issue reports with mptscsi
<magnon> ogra: nope, haven't gotten that far yet
<\sh> flint_: yeah :) but a fast desk I think...and a loud one..but anyways..for recompiling universe and testing stuff quite nice
<ogra> magnon, would be nice to have a tester for that, linescann gave up on it i think :(
<ogra> magnon, if there really is a issue with the installer mptscsi module this should be solved before release, sun fire seems to become famous ...
<magnon> ogra: I don't think Sun Norway has too many of those just lying around. I called them and the lady on the phone didn't even know the Sun Fire campagin
<flint_> I just thought this scam up just now.  Let me see what I can propose to IBM.
<ogra> oh
<flint_> Actually, telling IBM that you all have Sun helps my argument. :^)
<ogra> hehe
<magnon> flint_: what are you going to propose anyway?
<magnon> if you get me cheap ibm stuff for being affiliated with (ed)ubuntu, screw sun :P
<Kamion> mptscsi issue> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10189
<flint_> Dear Bill,
<flint_> I need you to find someone in IBM to help me with Edubuntu.
<flint_> Actually I need to borrow about a dozen X series servers and distribute
<flint_> them world wide.
<flint_> Please call so we can talk about this one...
<flint_> Regards,
<flint_> Paul,
<ogra> Kamion, oh, thanks ... i'll point linescann there if he comes in
<Kamion> well, that's one possiblee issue anyway
<ogra> (odd that its called mpt :) ) 
<magnon> flint_: Looks nice :P
<flint_> just sent that letter to mrbill... a contact within IBM not billy gates.
<magnon> flint_: also, add "Please attach 2000 Euro to each shipment so we can test on a plethora of clients, too."
<ogra> magnon, bah, just send the clients along... else you have to go and buy them :P
<flint_> magnon: remember, rome was not sacked in a day...
<magnon> ogra: Oh, sorry. "Please buy one each of <insert different vendors and models>, and proceed to include one of each with each shipped server."
<JaneW> ogra: sent note to u-d
<ogra> and 30" displays so we can see what the clients do even from the garden :)
* JaneW has to go (tax return to complete asap) WAAAAH!
<magnon> ogra: of course, we do this in our free time
<ogra> heh
<magnon> JaneW: have fun :P
<jsgotangco> JaneW: u-d?
<JaneW> magnon: yeah right
<magnon> ubuntu-devel
<jsgotangco> hope that's not ubuntu-doc
<ogra> JaneW, thanks and all :)
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<JaneW> ogra: ditto and all
<ogra> :)
<JaneW> (is it indian day?)
<JaneW> *duck*
<flint_> ok here is the draft to mdz. BTW ollie how big is the lotr patch?
<magnon> *cry* my vendor login at the thin client distributor doesn't work atm
<flint_> Dear Matt,
<flint_> I need a favor.  The lotr patch that Oliver Grawert deleloped last week
<flint_> needs to go in the edubuntu distro now.  It makes a considerable
<flint_> difference in the look of the edubuntu product.  Is there any way I can
<flint_> convince you to place this data on the disk?  The patch is no more than a
<flint_> few Kb.
<flint_> Regards,
<flint_> Paul
<ogra> flint_, it was developed long ago...
<ogra> not only a week
<flint_> an I lying about the patch size.
<flint_> ok i will change that to tested, he will like it even more...
<ogra> (more tha a month)
<jsgotangco> haha
<jsgotangco> oh god i am laughing so hard
<ogra> heh
<flint_> The lotr patch that Oliver Grawert deleloped last week
<flint_> and Elkner and I tested yesterday, needs to go in the edubuntu distro now.
<ogra> flint_, please drop "last week"
<jsgotangco> and flint_ probably doesn't even know this channel is logged
<magnon> haha
<ogra> lol
<flint_> making you all laugh is my job.
<ogra> heh
<flint_> I absolutely know this channel is logged, it would not be any fun if it wasn't!
<ogra> *g*
<flint_> what-da-ya think janew?
<magnon> jane left, I think
<ogra> the question is if mdz has time to even read the logs, i doubt it :)
<JaneW> ogra: he does if his name is mentioned *BUST*
<flint_> he knows exactly what an evil weasel I really am....
<ogra> heh
<JaneW> ok now I must go
<JaneW> ciao
<flint_> ok I am going to send as writ.  It will greet him with the LA sunrise.
<flint_> later janew. wish me luck
<JaneW> gl
* ogra takes a short break now...
<flint_> with both mdz and ibm 
<ogra> good luck flint_ 
<flint_> one is worse than the other I think.
* ogra crosses fingers...
<flint_> ollie what is your email address?
<flint_> you are mentioned in my note to matt thus you are on the carbon chain.
<ogra> ogra@ubuntu.com
<flint_> thanks my man....
<flint_> ok, it is gone to mdz.  Gandalf, when you get the carbon, respond to both matt and I with the URL for the location of the patch, and for gods sake we need to fix the script, or mdz will cut our hearts out.
<flint_> I will take a stab at this later today, and send you the result.
<ogra> thanks a lot :)
<flint_> ok goodbye! good meeting.
<ogra> yup, thanks for coming :)
<seadog-gr> hi all
<mitsuhiko> hi all
<usambara> hi @all
<mitsuhiko> \sh_away: coordination failed again ^^
<dand> mitsuhiko: how come?
<dand> what did I miss? :)
<smurf> well, at least hno73 is here *this* time ;-)
<hno73> smurf: hi :)
* Nafallo waves :-)
<Nafallo> hno73: godkvll/natt :-)
<hno73> Nafallo: hei hei
<mitsuhiko> hi all
* hno73 is even on 'leave' these days :)
<smurf> unfortunately silbs isn't ... oh well
<hno73> or rather doing PhD work
<ian_brasil> ola
<Nafallo> hno73: yay! that brings you to sweden soon then ;-).
* opi says Hi
<smurf> OK... we'll start at 20:05
<mitsuhiko> hi all
<mitsuhiko> fine. 3 minutes to fetch some popcorn :)
<hno73> Nafallo: looking at Oslo actually
<opi> and coffee
<ian_brasil> what teams are here?
<opi> Poland
<NielsKjoeller> Denmark
<Nafallo> hno73: hehe ;-)
<dand> Romania
<Nafallo> Sweden
<seadog-gr> Hi, from Greek loco
<Nafallo> ozamosi: (wake up :-P)
<hno73> Any CC members here to opine on policy issues? mako are you at the keys?
<ian_brasil> erm , Brazil :)
* Mithrandir is here too, .no
<dholbach> germany :)
<Mithrandir> hno73: you're coming to Oslo soonish?  Beer? :-)
<mitsuhiko> hi dholbach
<ozamosi> Nafallo: I'm here..
<mitsuhiko> austria / germany :)
<ozamosi> Sweden
<dholbach> hi mitsuhiko 
<hno73> Mithrandir: mmmm, beer
<hno73> It would probably be a good saving if I brought some along :)
<pippovic> hi all
<Mithrandir> hno73: heh, true.
<mitsuhiko> hi pippovic
<Mithrandir> hno73: when will you be here?
<Ju> ping titus` 
<Ju> Hi all !
<hno73> Mithrandir: early spring I would think, need to find a flat etc.
<Nafallo> Simira: hi :-)
<Simira> hi there
<Mithrandir> hno73: ah, sounds good.
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: so no beer till spring for you ;-)
<pippovic> hi droebbel
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: I just bought all the relevant parts for making my own today.
<droebbel> hi
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: hehe :-)
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: so there'll certainly be before spring.
<titus`> hi all
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: just make it open-sourced :-)
<opi> dholbach, you're into football? I'm going to spend next summer in Germany (think World Cup;-)
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: the recipies you come up with etc... ;-)
<dholbach> opi: erm... not really :)
<dholbach> opi: but if you drop by in berlin, it'd be nice to have  a beer or two :)
<opi> dholbach, I've quit alcohol :P
<dholbach> well then some orange juice, whatever :)
<dholbach> opi: hope you didn't quit food :)
<opi> dholbach, nah, actually I think I replaced beer with food ;)
<NielsKjoeller> Dholbach: "Think free as in speach, not as in orange juice???". Guess it still works.
<smurf> OK, if everybody has ordered their drinks, let's start
<mitsuhiko> .oO(Yann is missing... strange)
<smurf> First item: hosting
<titus`> mitsuhiko, it's ok, I've his voice ;)
<Ju> ;-) titus` is the other one french team leader... mitsuhiko 
<opi> smurf, I a bit off base on that one: could I get PHP/MySQL/Shell account for our LoCo?
<smurf> hno73: what's the situation with Canonical-supplied hosting?
<smurf> opi: send email please
<mitsuhiko> Ju: i know
<opi> smurf, OK
<hno73> smurf: we have plenty of capacity, so team leads can just email me with requests
<smurf> Any restrictions WRT bandwidth, disk space, ...?
<mitsuhiko> hno73: the problem. 4 month ago there was no such service :(
<hno73> I've been away for a week+  are there any such requests that I haven't replied to?
<opi> smurf, can we have our own MX? I would like to take e-mail aliases to my place
<smurf> opi: see last answer ...
<hno73> mitsuhiko: yes, and now we have 'too much'
<mitsuhiko> hno73: now we also have too much
<hno73> opi: which team are you from?
<mitsuhiko> hno73: 2 dell supplied servers and another two from hp :(
<mitsuhiko> hno73: pl
<titus`> hno73, what about ubuntu-de-fr servers hosting european loco teams ?
<ian_brasil> hno73: what is your mail?
<hno73> henrik@ubuntu.com
<opi> hno73, Poland
<NielsKjoeller> Just a question: Is this the meeting, or are people just chatting?
<hno73> mitsuhiko: just email me a request
<titus`> NielsKjoeller, it's the neeting
<smurf> NielsKjoeller: It's supposed to be a meeting
<opi> NielsKjoeller, LoCoMeeting
<Mithrandir> NielsKjoeller: I think smurf is trying to get the meeting started, but everybody is a bit disorganised still
<mitsuhiko> hno73: as i sait. atm we have everything we need
<NielsKjoeller> Mithrandir: Thought so ;-)
<hno73> mitsuhiko: sorry, that was for opi
<mitsuhiko> hno73: np
<hno73> opi: We can provide those things
<opi> hno73, thanks
<smurf> That is a good place to tell everybody to uiet down a bit ;-)
<hno73> any other hosting requests?
<smurf> hno73: you haven't yet answered my question ..?
<sturmkind> hello
<mitsuhiko> hi sturmkind
<mitsuhiko> sturmkind: <-- ubuntu-de
<Simira> smurf: has a "Tor" from the Norwegian LoCo contacted you about the websites?
<titus`> hno73, same request as smurf...
<hno73> (21:12:15) hno73: smurf: we have plenty of capacity, so team leads can just email me with requests
<smurf> Please try to stay on topic ...
<hno73> that quetion?
<titus`> hno73, what about ubuntu-de-fr servers hosting european loco teams ? <= this one
<hno73> what is the status? we have capacity
<smurf> The "any restrictions" part. You know, 1TB disk space and a gigabit uplink ;-)
<Simira> hno73: ok, you're in charge of the LoCo webhosting? I'll be in touch at a later point.
<hno73> smurf: ah.
<smurf> hno73: asked another way, if ubuntuforums.org asks you for housing, could you supply it?
<hno73> smurf: as long as we are not serving out ISOs it should be fine
<hno73> smurf: I think so yes
<mitsuhiko> hno73: past showed up that a 2400+XP Server can't handle big forums for a long time
<hno73> these are the machines: http://www.serverpronto.com/detail-power.php
<hno73> mitsuhiko: what is the forum running on now?
<Nafallo> hno73: that's not the specs on the one we got ;-)
<mitsuhiko> hno73: phpbb atm
<mitsuhiko> and a XP2400+
<hno73> and are they looking to change?
<mitsuhiko> hno73: we've collected money and got some servers :-)
<hno73> Nafallo: really? what do you have?
<Nafallo> hno73: AMD Sempron 2400+ / 107GB HD (df -h)
<hno73> mitsuhiko: I know. Do you have capacity to host the forums?
<littlepaul> hno73, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrDeHosting
<smurf> One part of this agenda item is -- if a new team says "Hi we want some space", do I send them directly to you? My current rule-of-thumb is to set up a standard webspace+Moin on my server, to be freely used until they need more
<hno73> Nafallo: so more like this: http://www.serverpronto.com/detail-powerplus.php ?
<Nafallo> hno73: a mix I think. 488MB RAM :-)
<hno73> smurf: you can send them to me if you like, that's fine
<Nafallo> (free -m)
<Nafallo> but more like, sure :-)
<smurf> We have also spent some effort acquiring free systems and housing for ubuntu-de+fr 
<smurf> s/some/a lot/
<opi> can this efforts be merged?
<mitsuhiko> hno73: here the stats for ubuntu-de (+ru): http://netz.smurf.noris.de/webalizer/
<opi> merged as in "one procedure to share resources"
<smurf> which will go live in a few weeks, and (I hope ;-) will be high-quality (redundant servers and all that)
<hno73> opi: I would be happy with that
<hno73> smurf: sounds cool
<hno73> one thing we are short of is off-site backup space
<hno73> If one of our LoCo HDs crash now we are in bad shape :(
<sturmkind> hno73: yes the backup problem :-(
<smurf> hno73: No problem, we can supply that
<hno73> smurf: cool
<hno73> and likewise really
<opi> smurf, can you think about doing a Wiki page on "How to get webspace for your LoCo" with both options named and discribed?
<smurf> opi: three of them actually
<opi> smurf, /me bad, three
<smurf> sure, I'll write that
<smurf> OK, anything else WRT hosting?
<hno73> not from me
<opi> I'm good
<smurf> cool
<titus`> no answer again...
<smurf> titus`: ?
<titus`> hno73, what about ubuntu-de-fr servers hosting european loco teams ? <= this one
<Ju`> titus`, sorry what was your question, my connection wwentinto trouble ... ;-/
<titus`> I know yann have spoken to hno73 about this
<hno73> titus`: It's fine by me, but it's a policy question really
<hno73> if teams want to do that, then that's great
<mitsuhiko> titus`: and it's a question how many teams the servers can handle
<smurf> My opinion: we offer it, teams can freely decide what to do
<hno73> I'm slightly uncomfortable about making it Europe-only though
<hno73> esp. if one service ends up being better than the other
<hno73> smurf: +1
<smurf> hno73: We tried to supply hosting to a Chinese team and the latency was *awful*  :-/
<smurf> so that's a consideration too
<opi> smurf, maybe thay could talk to Debian guys from .jp
<hno73> smurf: wow, so it's actually good to have a few options
<mitsuhiko> hno73: the servers are located in paris
<opi> smurf, if we're weak in that parts
<hno73> the pronto servers are in the US
<hno73> AFAIK
<Nafallo> hno73: yes. and just tracerouted vistula :-).
<smurf> So, next item ...
<titus`> hno73, we have 72 go raid 5 and no limited bandwith
<smurf> titus`: sure we have, the 100mbit will be full at some point ;-)
<hno73> titus`: sounds great. now we just need to generate traffic :)
<smurf> as security.d.o found out this week :-/  -- anyway, back on track please ;-)
<smurf> next item
<smurf> trademark issues
<mitsuhiko> jep
<NielsKjoeller> Isn't this mostly an informational topic. Does the LoCoTeams have any say in this?
* Nafallo would really want to know what this point is about :-)
<smurf> The main person responsible for that should be silbs, who isn't here; I've SMSd her but no response either
<opi> We did our own Mug/Shirts with the green light from Mako ;)
<mitsuhiko> one question to the trademark question
<dholbach> opi: what was the URL again?
<smurf> It's about guidelines for ubuntu-whatever-named organizations
<hno73> the issue is that some teams want to set up a local non-profit right?
<hno73> -fr
<opi> dholbach, http://butik.pl/ubuntu
<titus`> hno73, yes it's right
<Nafallo> smurf: like ubuntulinux.se?
<hno73> Nafallo: no a real legal entity
<dand> smurf: at the last meeting Yann said he got an answer on this issue
<hno73> notjust a domain
<dand> see http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2005-09-12.html
<ian_brasil> we have our own logo too in brasil
<titus`> dand, the only answer we have is : Why? :/
<mitsuhiko> hno73: is it possible to arrange a ubuntu promotion activity and make posters with the ubuntu logo and sort if this?
<dand> titus`: oh ok
<mitsuhiko> or is there someone whom we have to ask?
<hno73> mitsuhiko: yes, no problem
<ian_brasil> how can we protect this?
<Nafallo> hno73: oki :-)
<ian_brasil> through canonical?
<mitsuhiko> hno73: fine. is there a sort of press information package we could offer?
<opi> dholbach, http://bronikowski.com/upload/Zzz.jpg
<titus`> hno73, we need to have a kind of structure because of taxes, credibility and "officialization ?"
<mitsuhiko> (ubuntu-de also has a kind of logo but it's under creativecommons)
<hno73> Did Yann write a formal request to Canonical about setting up an org using the Ubuntu name?
<dholbach> opi: :)
<hno73> titus`: I understand
<titus`> hno73, yes do you want me to fw the answer to you ?
<smurf> hno73: AFAIK he did not because it wasn't yet clear whether we need to
<hno73> titus`: yes please
<hno73> need to ask or need to set up an org?
<ian_brasil> yes ...this structure is really important 
<NielsKjoeller> titus: Could you send it this way too? (niels.k.h@gmail.com)
<ian_brasil> an ngo?
<hno73> ian_brasil: yes
<smurf> hno73: we don't yet know whether we need to set up something of oour own so that the companies who gave us the nice shiny servers can get tax deductions in return
<smurf> hno73: or if the Foundation will be able to handle that
<smurf> hno73: needs to happen this year, though
<titus`> hno73, done
<titus`> others : http://ubuntu-fr.pastebin.com/370332
<hno73> smurf: ok, but if you do need to then I would suggest you make a formal request
<ian_brasil> smurf: now
<hno73> the foundation will be UK-based
<hno73> so I'm not sure that will cover -fr or -de tax issues
<hno73> and certainly not non-EU ones
<hno73> which will also be an issue at some point I guess
<titus`> hno73, we want to create a non profit organisation because there is no taxes for that one
<smurf> hno73: probably not. Since the problem right now is a -fr one, yann or whoever probably needs to ask a tax person
<hno73> smurf: ok, is setting one up expensive? I think it's like 50 in the UK
<titus`> 38 in france to create it
<smurf> you just need to find the correct boilerplate for the paperwork ;-)
<ian_brasil> i am not so sure about this as it is going to mean a lot of beaurocracy for us to be based in the uk
<ian_brasil> and less easy to get sponsorship/financial support from local firms
<hno73> If it didn't have 'Ubuntu' in the name, there would be no problem at all
<titus`> hno73, yes of course but what about credibility ?
<sturmkind> hm no ubuntu in the name 
<hno73> in the US we have a non-profit called 'Software Freedom International'
<titus`> imagine I ask HP for servers and the association is called linux-france or something else...
<smurf> hno73: I dont think not having an ubuntu-whatever name is an option
<hno73> The problem with trademarks is that they need to be protected otherwise they loose their validity
<smurf> titus`: you'd then have t ask Linus (or rather the people who handle that) for an OK
<sturmkind> hno73: right
<titus`> smurf, :)
<hno73> I read the email and reply now. I can see why silbs is concerned
<mitsuhiko> .oO(using a fake name eg. obonto-fr)
<smurf> hno73: "for whatever purpose" is definitely not the correct wording
<smurf> we'll probably draft a new request, get your OK, and then go for it -- I doubt the French tax people will accept donations to the UK :-/
<hno73> smurf: sorry, where is that wording?
<smurf> hno73: http://ubuntu-fr.pastebin.com/370332 says "whatever we need it for"
<smurf> I paraphrased
<titus`> so ubunt-fr ? :/
<smurf> OK ... anything else on the trademark / naming item?
<hno73> smurf: right, that is certainly too loose
<smurf> titus`: anything *serious* ;-)
<opi> utunubu-PL :)
<mitsuhiko> smurf: nothing from me
<mitsuhiko> opi: that can gets a problem with debian ^^
<mitsuhiko> s/gets/becomes
<ian_brasil> smurf: so what is the outcome
<hno73> opi: domain or ngo?
<mitsuhiko> ian_brasil: no ubuntu in the name :)
<smurf> ian_brasil: The end result will probably a French association with close ties to the Ubuntu Foundation
<opi> hno73, no, just kidding. We have ubuntu-pl.org from Canonical
<hno73> Sounds like a question for the CC really
<sturmkind> opi: *g*
<ian_brasil> so the french team will document this process?
<smurf> ian_brasil: definitely
<smurf> next item ... CDs and conference packs
<ian_brasil> excellent
<hno73> they should have an opinion on the general principle for this
<smurf> hno73: we'll go there with some sort of proposal, I'd say
<smurf> anyway
<smurf> people need CDs and other stuff, and don't seem to be able to get them
* hno73 has to go in a few minutes
<smurf> even with 2month lead time
<mitsuhiko> the german team has looked for some improvements: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/shipit
<opi> smurf, it's because people request CD in instane quanities
<mitsuhiko> and the french one found a firm which would handle shipit for france
<opi> smurf, I've made a sugestion for Launchpad guys
<opi> smurf, SmartShipping
<Nafallo> opi: what's insane quantity then? :-)
<sturmkind> msg mitsuhiko lol wie wre es mit 'friends of ubuntu'? naja spa bei seite und weiter auf #ubuntu-meeting
<opi> smurf, if you request a CD, and there's some Ubuntu guy around you, who did order a few, you will be pointed to him
<smurf> opi: the problem is conferences and similar events
<opi> smurf, that would decrase number of CD shiped to random people and get Ubuntu-using people closer (think LoCo)
<NielsKjoeller> Maybe it would be an idea, if Ship-it required you to give a reason when ordering 10+ CDs?
<titus`> opi, that what we are going to do for local associations
<opi> smurf, maybe CD cover could be downloadable, so people could do some in-house printin
<NielsKjoeller> Maybe 50+
<mitsuhiko> hno73: which firm handles the shipit? I think it's not canonical :)
<Nafallo> next shipit does something like that :-)
<juliux> NielsKjoeller, that does not work even better
<hno73> NielsKjoeller: The new one will do that
<opi> titus`, but we could use Launchpad to get it started
<hno73> mitsuhiko: it is a Dutch company
<hno73> they are generally very good
<smurf> Is there somebody here who can actually tell us something about the curent ShipIt state-of-affairs and what to do if you *do* need 200+ CDs next month?
<titus`> hno73, can we have about 5000 cds at the end of october and then we redistribute them for french associations which distribute them during conferences...
<hno73> we looked for companies in the US that could compete locally, but didn't find any better alternatives
<mitsuhiko> hno73: the question is: "Is there a company shipping ubuntu cds locally?"
<ian_brasil> we have a specific problem in Brzil
<hno73> titus`: Breezy gets released at the very end of October
<sturmkind> ian_brasil: ?
<opi> smurf, I think we need someone from CoC next time
<mitsuhiko> requesting cd's from a dutch company is expensive afaik
<smurf> mitsuhiko: I don't care if it's shipped locally, I care that it's shipped timely
<hno73> it takes a few days/weeks to make CDs ...
<ian_brasil> companies here are getting CD's and selling them
<titus`> hno73, once it is possible I wanted to say
<ian_brasil> what can we do about this
<sturmkind> ian_brasil: we have the problems with peoples who sell them in ebay
<mitsuhiko> smurf: i know. but i know how difficult it is to get answers from the shipit mail addy
<titus`> we have already the company which redistribute CDs
<NielsKjoeller> Sturmkind, ian_brasil: This is quite normal. Happens everywhere.
<hno73> I think the timelyness will improve with the new system
<ian_brasil> oh
<hno73> shippments are already being send to local re-distributors
<opi> NielsKjoeller, our main online auction provider bans all Ubuntu ShipIt CDs :P
<hno73> it's part of the network that the shipping company has
<NielsKjoeller> I saw a suggestion on Ubuntuforums, about printing "Price: $0.00" on the CDs. That is a very good idea, IMHO.
<hno73> I think it's tricky to improve on that with a home-made solution
<titus`> NielsKjoeller, +1
<opi> NielsKjoeller, actually, I've spoken with Mark on that subject
<hno73> I shipped out 80+ sets of CDs for SFD, and that was a fair bit of work :)
<opi> NielsKjoeller, he has no problem with people selling ShipIt CDs
<mitsuhiko> hno73: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/shipit
<smurf> hno73: "ShipIt lets you order Ubuntu 5.10 CDs that will be posted to you free of charge." That doesn't quite help the people who have local events next month.
<titus`> hno73, we tried to make it faster but it's not easy...
<opi> NielsKjoeller, but we would prefer that this money would go to a LoCo
<smurf> I'd like to have an interim(?) solution for them if at all possible.
<mitsuhiko> hno73: simple question. Whom to ask for a large amount of cds?
<hno73> smurf: so next moth would be Hoary CDs?
<hno73> mitsuhiko: email the shipit address
<smurf> NielsKjoeller: That would actually also help those whose CDs get stuck in customs ...
<smurf> hno73: if the choice is "hoary CDs" or "no CDs at all", I guess there are some people out here who prefer the former
<mitsuhiko> hno73: we tried it some weeks ago. the german MOTUs had to send their CDs to juliux because there was no response form shipit
<smurf> (or "too late")
<NielsKjoeller> smurf: Yes, that would be a nice side effect. Or maybe this should be the main effect, and the ebay-thing the side-effect :-D
<juliux> no there where no cd's yet
<hno73> there is currently a change in personel on shipit, but it should improve greatly
<juliux> hno73, we(GNOME Germany) tried this year two times to get cd's for events but nothing happens
<hno73> we have also made some changes to the customs issue
<titus`> http://www.ubuntu-fr.org/map/ we want to extend this map with informations like the number of CDs avalaible by member, what's your opinion ?
<xuzo> i agree with smurf, "hoary CDs" is better than "no CDs"
<hno73> improving the labeling, to make it more clear that it is free stuff
<smurf> hno73: good
<sturmkind> hno73: print 'free stuff' on it :-)
<hno73> juliux: perhaps we should set up a wiki page with events that need CDs so no one will be surprised
<Nafallo> sturmkind: that's what "price: $0" does? ;-)
<juliux> hno73, that is a very good idea
<sturmkind> Nafallo: yes i know :-)
<hno73> sturmkind: it will refer to the Ubuntu founfation instead of MediaMotion for a start
<smurf> Hmm, that page could be used to forward not-distributed CDs to the next event, in case there are any ;-)
<hno73> and explain what Free Software is
<smurf> Anyway, *is* there a solution for the "we have an event in two weeks" people?
<Nafallo> could we say more about this? :-P
<hno73> Nafallo: referring to a non-profit will help though 
<Nafallo> smurf: IMO no :-)
<smurf> Nafallo: wrong smiley ...
<opi> smurf, maybe they should request two months before event?
<hno73> smurf: can we set up local burners?
<opi> smurf, I know it's not allways possible
<Nafallo> smurf: hehe, depends on how you look at it. two weeks should have been two months for my smiliey to change ;-)
<smurf> hno73: is the artwork available?
<hno73> It might be good for those who want to distribute pre-releases or something
<opi> smurf, but most of evens are planed loooong before they reach 2 more weeks state
<juliux> opi, also 2 months before a event did not help
<hno73> (to the right sort of audience)
<opi> :-(
<smurf> opi: Those people DID ASK two months ago
<hno73> smurf: not that I know
<smurf> and didn't get a shipment
<mitsuhiko> hno73: but we konow
<mitsuhiko> i was one of them
<ian_brasil> we asked 4 months ago :(
<sturmkind> usambara: Hallo, ich hoffe Dir und Deiner Mutter geht es ein wenig besser
<Nafallo> juliux: but for that we should give the improvements made already a chance IMHO :-)
<Simira> smurf: which event is this?
<opi> ian_brasil, well, at least you wait in better weather condition, than we do :-D
<hno73> I think the wiki page will help stop things falling through the cracks
<Nafallo> juliux: maybe two months is enough with the new shipit :-)
<juliux> Nafallo, ok i hope so
<smurf> Simira: Linux-Info-Tag Dresden, for one (I hpe I got the name right)
<smurf> s/hpe/hope/
<juliux> smurf, yes it is right
* hno73 ok, I got to go. email me with other stuff
<hno73> night all
<Nafallo> hno73: godnatt :-)
<mitsuhiko> hno73: n8
<NielsKjoeller> night
<smurf> bye hno73 
<opi> next order of buissnes is?
<NielsKjoeller> Conference packs.
<mitsuhiko> opi: nothing
<smurf> anything else on this item that hasn't been said three times already? ;-)
<mitsuhiko> lv missing and canonical also
<opi> OK, I have a question
<opi> or a proposal
* mitsuhiko is listening
<opi> Being a lousy LoCo leader, I got wonder -- maybe there should be a democracy ;)
<smurf> conference packs might be a good topic for ubuntu-artwork
<opi> how about a rule that a Leader should be reapointed by both CoC and people from LoCo
<mitsuhiko> smurf: and for the translation teams
<opi> every two release of Ubuntu
<mitsuhiko> opi: i think each locoteam should handle this on itself
<smurf> opi: hat is the problem you want to solve?
<opi> people form LoCo tends to think: he was elected by CoC, we should not badmouth him ;-)
<smurf> s/hat/what
<smurf> the CC does not elect anybody
<opi> smurf, give a signal that it's in LoCo hands, who runs them
<mitsuhiko> smurf: this leth's me think on ubuntu-lv
<NielsKjoeller> Smurf: No, Hat IS the problem. We need hats!
<opi> NielsKjoeller, actaully, I like hats :)
<NielsKjoeller> opi: Me too :-D
<mitsuhiko> NielsKjoeller: as long as those arn't red
<smurf> *but* that's not even on the agenda
<opi> smurf, I would put it on agenda
<mitsuhiko> .oO(hm. baseball caps with ubuntu logo)
<mitsuhiko> +2
<smurf> I kindof would like to stick with that, it's late enough here
<mitsuhiko> ^^
<opi> smurf, but my lousy P2/400 almost died while connecting to https :(
<mitsuhiko> i think meeting is over
<NielsKjoeller> Smurf: a worthy question of next  week.
<opi> smurf, OK, I'm taking that back
<NielsKjoeller> Not lv or LoCoTeamTeam?
<smurf> Mithrandir:  not quite
<smurf> next item is LoCoTeamTeam ;-)
<smurf> I think we do need something like that
<Mithrandir> smurf: humm?
<opi> I almost hear last Metallica CD: Some kind of Monster ;)
<smurf> " Relations to Canonical - eventual creation of a Locoteams team, to improve communication between canonical and locoteams"
<titus`> smurf, communication ? what communication ? we are in a cathedral ;)
<dand> titus`: we have to admit we're not really organized
<smurf> titus`: which is part of the problem, and I'd like to solve it
<NielsKjoeller> Speaking as an unofficial contact of an unofficial team, I still think it to be a grand idea.
<mitsuhiko> i think we should create a wikipage with a locoteams FAQ
<mitsuhiko> we ask questions and canonical write answers
<titus`> we have only one hour a month the locoteams leader...
<smurf> mitsuhiko: wikipage => yes, but I don't think we need question and answers
<Nafallo> can't we just ping canonical dudes like we do now? :-)
<smurf> we need people who are responsible for items and Do Stuff
<mitsuhiko> smurf: but if one locoteam has a question then all should get the answer
<smurf> Nafallo: that doesn't always work
<mitsuhiko> Nafallo: it it was that easy we all would do
<Nafallo> smurf: oh, always wfm :-P
* Nafallo goes back to his irc-corner and watches again ;-)
<sturmkind> lol
<NielsKjoeller> What size should this team have? Is there more work than 3-4 people can handle?
<smurf> There's already a "what to do as a loco" wiki page (The LoCoTeams one), but it's short on how-to
<smurf> fixing that should be a priority
<smurf> NielsKjoeller: I do't think so
<smurf> I see a distinct lack of "yeah, me, I'll do ..." replies here ;-)
<smurf> Speaking of which, is somebody here able to summarize this meeting and send that to the loco mailing list?
<mitsuhiko> smurf: i can do
<mitsuhiko> if it can wait until tomorrow
<smurf> mitsuhiko: thanks. Sure
<mitsuhiko> smurf: no problem
<ian_brasil> what does Do Stuff mean exactly
<mitsuhiko> ian_brasil: events
<NielsKjoeller> smurf: ;-) - actually I would like to do something, but I don't know what to do. I do not feel capable of writing a howto, since Ubuntu-dk is probably the slowest team ever.
<dand> I'd be interested in what other teams are doing atm... I'd definitely wouldn't mind if we'd have regular meetings and talk about present/future activities...
<mitsuhiko> dand: atm ubuntu-de only is a kind of supporting platform
<mitsuhiko> irc, forum and wiki
<smurf> dand: good idea
<mitsuhiko> but in the future we would like to do some events
<ian_brasil> dand:great idea
<mitsuhiko> dand: +1
<dand> for instance, the only SFD report I saw was from mako...
<Ju`> and the role of locteam could be to organise cd distribution, if shipit send a lot of cd to a team, it could be a great source of economy... andhave directly all cds needed for event.
<smurf> I'd like to propose to expand the LoCo documentation a bit, in that direction
<mitsuhiko> we need a second meeting. dholbach is planning something but he hasn't finished his report until today :(
<mitsuhiko> s/second/third ^^
<dholbach> mitsuhiko: we're in the "brainstorming" state - and i didn't intend to write a report
<smurf> LoCoTeams has a somewhat-large list of activities people might do, and in fact I think all of that has been done by somebody-or-other already
<dholbach> :)
<mitsuhiko> shaga: :)
<mitsuhiko> s/shaga/dholbach
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: :)
<smurf> so, everybody: if you did something that's on the list, create a wiki page linked off that, and write about it
<smurf> and if you did something else loco-related that's not, add it ;-)
<smurf> that should help getting more communication going between the teams, which I think is a bit lacking right now
<smurf> Thoughts? (Other than "this meeting is too long already" ;-)
<sturmkind> this meeting is too long already :-P
<NielsKjoeller> Not any more on LoCoTeamTeam, right now.
<ian_brasil> i am glad we finally met up
<littlepaul> smurf, there should be more communication on #ubuntu-locoteams
<smurf> Last agenda item -- LV. Is there anybody here from them?
<NielsKjoeller> sturmkind: Was thinking about doing that one, but thought "Nah, it is too obvious" :P
<sturmkind> hehe
<titus`> name...no, local shipit... no, hosting... not yet, main concerned person.... away, great meeting isn't it ?
<Nafallo> hehe
<smurf> ... apparently not ..?
<sturmkind> short, very short ^^
<Nafallo> Sweden and Greece have hosting from canonical. and it works :-)
<dholbach> titus`: and there's a contact for hosting too
<smurf> titus`: the name is not "no", just "not like that" (which is certainly understandable).
<ozamosi> Nafallo: well, not always. But that's my fault :)
<Nafallo> ozamosi: indeed ;-)
<smurf> OK -- I think we can close the meeting for today
<Nafallo> ehm, meeting closed? :-)
<mitsuhiko> smurf: nobody here
<smurf> when should we meet next?
<mitsuhiko> jep
<NielsKjoeller> two weeks?
<mitsuhiko> smurf: i send you the report tomorrow
<Nafallo> smurf: the wiki says "when we need to talk" :-P
<mitsuhiko> NielsKjoeller: let's discuss this on the loco-contacts lists
<mitsuhiko> -s
<NielsKjoeller> Two weeks minus two days?
<NielsKjoeller> mitsuhiko: Let's do that. I need to sleep. Gotta get up in 5 hours :-(
<smurf> Monday 3rd, a bit earlier (18:00 UTC) ?
<ian_brasil> ok
<Nafallo> ozamosi: don't you have jujitsu on mondays?
<ozamosi> Nafallo: um. Yup. You could always cover for me, though..
<Nafallo> ozamosi: you are the contact, I'm just an admin ;-).
<sturmkind> so i have to go to, a eleven hour work day knocks you out ;-(
<sturmkind> bye
<ian_brasil> tchau
<rbelem> tchau
<ozamosi> Nafallo: but since you have made me "moin expert", i make you "loco meeting expert" :P
<Nafallo> ozamosi: lol :-P
<mitsuhiko> smurf: 18:00 is perfect
<dand> mitsuhiko: +1
<smurf> OK, we'll propose that date+time on the mailing list
<Nafallo> ozamosi: btw, I have french class on mondays ;-)
<smurf> Nafallo: not a problem, titus` can probably give you lessons ;-)
<Nafallo> Sweden will not be here next meeting :-)
<Nafallo> smurf: hehe, if the distance where shorter or we had VoIP ;-)
<titus`> Nafallo, homeworks ? ;)
<Nafallo> titus`: hehe, I actually forgot the day the last two mondays *blushes*
* Nafallo have to long weekends :-P
<mitsuhiko> so. i will leave
<mitsuhiko> cu all
<Nafallo> mitsuhiko: see you :-)
<dand> cya
* dand waves
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-27
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 22 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 23 Sep 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 3 Oct 18:00 UTC LoCo Teams | 4 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechnicalBoard
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 22 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 23 Sep 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 3 Oct 18:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 4 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechnicalBoard
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 22 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 23 Sep 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 28 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 3 Oct 18:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 4 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechnicalBoard
<Lathiat> Thu Sep 22 10:34:38 UTC 2005
<ajmitch> yes, thanks for that ;)
<Lathiat> im so helpfull
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> who's around for the meeting? :)
* sistpoty is Stefan Potyra
<slomo> ajmitch: i am... at least partially ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> we don't usually do name intros here, since there's no need to match wiki pages to potential members ;)
<ajmitch> slomo: pff, it's midnight here
<sistpoty> ah... thought it would some kind of tradition ;)
<Yagisan> 10pm here
* ajmitch knows ogra, Lathiat, and others were around..
<shaga> 3pm
<ajmitch> no dholbach?
<shaga> I was speaking about the time whats now :)
<slomo> ajmitch: 14:02 here... but i have to learn mathematics ;)
<slomo> wb Nafallo 
<ajmitch> bah
<Nafallo> morning all :-)
<ajmitch> hi Nafallo 
* Nafallo == ChristianBjlevik
* ogra <- OlverGrawert
* siretart Reinhard Tartler
* ajmitch gives up :)
<siretart> hi folks ;)
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<Yagisan> well if we are giving intros
<siretart> hi sistpoty 
* Yagisan == Jamie Jones
<Nafallo> ahh, motumeeting _and_ breakfast :-)
<dholbach> hi
<ajmitch> hi dholbach 
<sistpoty> hi dholbach
<slomo> hi dholbach 
<dholbach> hi everybody
* Yagisan runs for a coffee
<ajmitch> ok, who wants to volunteer to do the meeting minutes this week?
<ajmitch> shall I do them again?
<ogra> if you like ... i'm stuffed...
<Nafallo> why is my IRC screwed? I've got - and + before all names
<ajmitch> ogra: understandable
<sistpoty> i can do the minutes... but only if someone will correct them ;)
<ajmitch> we've got enough people here to get started then
<ogra> (the edubutu DVD will be used by the club of rome to promote their documents) 
* siretart is currently at work, will have some lags here
<ogra> and by the unesco...
<dholbach> ogra: ROCK'N'ROLL!
<ogra> yep :)
* dholbach is amazed
* sivang faints
<ajmitch> ogra: oh man, that's cool!
<siretart> sounds great!
<ajmitch> good work :)
<ogra> :)
<Nafallo> wow
<dholbach> let's get cracking
<sivang> ogra: amazing, were they impressed by the quality ?
<ajmitch> first item, REVU
<dholbach> sistpoty: your item, i believe?
<sistpoty> not revu actually, but the server sponsored by canonical
<Nafallo> s/REVU/tiber/ :-)
<sistpoty> since we have it... why not use it for MOTU business as well ;)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: such as?
<ogra> RT ?
<sivang> sistpoty: MOTU have a server from canonical ?
<Nafallo> sistpoty: like a people.ubuntu.com derivate?
<ajmitch> webspace for other uploads?
<ajmitch> ogra: hm, could be good :)
<sistpoty> whatever we could need it for
<ogra> err, that should comae anyway through launchpad at some point i think
<ogra> (p.u.c functionality)
<dholbach> somebody could doublecheck in #launchpad
<ajmitch> dholbach: they've got a meeting now
<siretart> sistpoty: I think the point was to use it as developer machine. in the meantime I hacked this revu-build script
<dholbach> ajmitch: oh i see
<dholbach> siretart: that's excellent news
<\sh> morning
<ajmitch> sistpoty: chroots setup for package building? how fast is the box?
<ajmitch> morning \sh 
<siretart> sistpoty: any root on tiber can now throw revu uploads into revu build, and get it autobuilt and some more diagnostics
<ajmitch> I thought it was a shared linode box
<ogra> i think we urgently need something better than UniverseCandidates .... that would be my first shot for additional services 
<sistpoty> siretart: cool
<siretart> I think some ppl have already seen what I mean
<ajmitch> ogra: yes, certainly
<dholbach> yeah that'd rock
<ajmitch> ogra: even malone would be better than universecandidates :)
<ogra> heh
<ajmitch> well, when LP is working
<sistpoty> ajmitch: AMD Sempron(tm)   2400+
<\sh> I think RT is a kewl solution
<\sh> or via trac
<ajmitch> sistpoty: so it's not a shared box, but a dedicated server for MOTUs? :)
<\sh> the ticketing system is also nice
<sistpoty> ajmitch: i dunno if this is a vserver or a dedicated one... how could i check?
* ajmitch doesn't care which one is used, anything would be an improvement on what we have
<ogra> yup
<dholbach> maybe we can fire up a wiki page to collect ideas for pages that organize our work a bit better
<ajmitch> dholbach: good idea
<dholbach> like  short script for morguecandidates, syncs to make sure they are done, ...
<ajmitch> otherwise we'll waste the meeting time talking about various things we could do :)
<siretart> mom
<dholbach> yeah
<ogra> yup, we ned a tool thats good at transition lists... and a tool for the UniverseCandidates
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> that sounds excellent
* ajmitch has a bunch of scritps here that could be put on it
<ogra> preferable one that can do both
<ajmitch> for transitions, unmet deps, etc
<dholbach> MOTUWebTools ?
<ogra> sournds good
<dholbach> starting it
<ogra> :)
<dholbach> next item?
* ajmitch will have to clean up his messy scripts first ;)
<ajmitch> UVF, and the lack of knowledge of it?
<sistpoty> i'd like to speak about user-accounts 
<ajmitch> sistpoty: ok
<sistpoty> on tiber... if you don't mind
<ajmitch> go ahead :)
<sistpoty> how do we want to handle this? i don't object about giving every modu root-rights...
<sistpoty> but this might lead to some administering chaos
<sistpoty> any ideas?
<siretart> I think this should be handled by request
<sistpoty> s/modu/motu ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: agreed
<ajmitch> given on need
<siretart> if some motu wants an account on tiber, we can create it
<ajmitch> and stuff should be setup such that few people _need_ root
<siretart> the applicant should state what he intends to do on tiber
<Yagisan> perhaps striping unneeded rights with something like grsec
* ajmitch wants to h4x0r the world
<siretart> and we will consider if root rights are necessary
<sistpoty> siretart: agreed
<Yagisan> s/striping/stripping
<Nafallo> /etc/sudoers can be set up as needed
<ogra> i think a good group management is enough, no need for custom kernel stuff etc
<siretart> for http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/wiki/Revu1Building - root is needed, though
<ajmitch> siretart: sudo can be setup to run just some commands - not really secure, but avoids accidental mistakes
<ogra> ajmitch++
<ajmitch> anyone building stuff in a chroot can probably still own the box anyway ;)
<\sh> I would say, siretart will be the the "uber-root" of this machine...
<slomo> siretart: for example you could just allow sudo on revu-build for everybody or something like that
<sistpoty> hehe
<ogra> :)
<siretart> ajmitch: sudo rights for pbuilding is effectly root
<Yagisan> ajmitch: that's not always true ...
<dholbach> did anyone notice that the wiki is f.cking slow?
<ogra> yup
<Yagisan> yes - it's always slow
<ogra> yesterday already
<ajmitch> Yagisan: no, but we've got a stock ubuntu install, no chroot hardening at the moment, iirc
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I see
<siretart> \sh: hehe - I think we should establish a tiber admin team, in case e.g. me is not available or very busy
<dholbach> wiki page is there
<sistpoty> siretart++
<dholbach> super
<ajmitch> siretart: or sleeping, since all the admin team in one country isn't so helpful at times :)
<\sh> siretart: backup is a good thing...we should avoid SPoFs
<Yagisan> ajmitch -  If needed - could we change kernel or turn on selinux etc ?
* Lathiat casually wanders in
<ajmitch> Yagisan: probably doable, depending on if it's a shared box, etc
<ajmitch> Yagisan: I haven't seen the box yet
<ogra> i'm oppsed to change the kernel 
<siretart> \sh: do you have some time in future (not atm but general) to do adminning buissness on tiber?
<ogra> we loose the upgradeability
<ajmitch> ogra: as am I, but we can fit selinux in if needed
<\sh> siretart: well...I'm always on :) so I can do some things...
<siretart> Yagisan: I'd rather put xen on tiber
<Yagisan> ogra: I think selinux also can do the caps - bit it's set to diablled by default
<ogra> ajmitch, thats only a boot option, right ? 
<Yagisan> ogra: yes
<sistpoty> hm... imo all the motu's are trustworthy enough to "have" root rights... i see the real problem in several persons fiddling on the same stuff so the sudoers variant for pbuilder should suffice
<Nafallo> could someone check with whoever fixed that box exactly what it is? :-)
<ogra> ok
<\sh> anyways...lets agree on an admin team all over the main motu TZs and lets move on :)
<siretart> ok, in this case, I'd propose sistpoty, sh and myself as core tiber admin team, 
<dholbach> yeah
<ogra> sistpoty, even the best MOTUs make mistakes
<Nafallo> siretart: same country :-P
* Lathiat is happy to 
<dholbach> :)
<sistpoty> ogra: that's why i prefer the sudoers variant... but let's move on
<\sh> everyone makes mistakes..sometimes small ones..and sometimes..forget it ;9
<siretart> we will handle account requests, via an alias file, will create an alias for this: admin@tiber.tauware.de
<siretart> Nafallo: oh. you're right, that was not on purpose
<dholbach> excellent idea
<Nafallo> I would like ajmitch on that admin theme personally :-).
<Lathiat> admin theme hey
<ajmitch> heh
<Nafallo> hehe, or team ;-)
<ajmitch> theming, sounds like andyfitz territory ;)
<ogra> do we have somebody from the US ?
<\sh> bddebian ;)
<ogra> to add to this team ? 
<ogra> great :)
<ajmitch> we're a little short on US MOTUs at the moment :)
<ajmitch> seems to be mostly europe active
<Lathiat> what is the us timezone
<Lathiat> -4 or something?
<ogra> but bddebian is a good start :)
<ajmitch> yes
<Nafallo> ajmitch: you are awake when germany is asleep most times, no? :-)
<Lathiat> what a guess
<ajmitch> Nafallo: sure, I'm about 12 hours different, and I'm addicted to IRC ;)
<\sh> Lathiat: -6?
<Nafallo> so ajmitch for admin then ;-)
<Lathiat> \sh: ah
<ajmitch> Lathiat: depends which US TZ you mean
<siretart> admin@tiber.tauware.de should work now
<\sh> east-coast should be ok
<ajmitch> ok, so who's on the team?
<dcraven> -4 here in Canada, but there are 3 tzs.
<\sh> ajmitch: bddebian ;) 
<ajmitch> \sh: ok
<dholbach> tseng is in the US as well
<Nafallo> could we _ask_ bddebian before? :-)
<\sh> ajmitch: i think it should be: you, bddebian (US), siretart 
<\sh> Nafallo: no...it's settled
<Nafallo> hehe
<ogra> ah, yes, or tseng... but tseng was busy recently
<\sh> Nafallo: he would say always "No, I'm a n00b" but I don't believe bddebian
<ajmitch> \sh: bddebian has plenty of admin experience
<\sh> Nafallo: so giving him the job is the best we can do for him ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: but he's is playing a fool with us ;)
<dholbach> yeah, he likes his little jokes
<Nafallo> hehe, okey. we use the --force on him then :-P
<\sh> s/a/the/
<dholbach> ok, next item?
<dholbach> :)
<\sh>  UVF for universe and multiverse (ReinhardTartler, ajmitch)
<ajmitch> the fact that recent MOTUs just don't know that we had UVF for universe
<ajmitch> and we got a few broken syncs of new upstream versions
<ogra> damned
<\sh> which ones? vpnc is fixed ;)
<Nafallo> hmm, not even I knew that :-P
<dholbach> it's quite easy to answer that, i guess - if a new version fixes a problem easier than patching/fixing/cirvumventing, we should get it in (especially, if it's in debian) - we should insist on testbuilds and tests before
<ogra> regardless of UVF, syncs should *always* be tested before requesting the sync !
<ajmitch> dholbach: not just that, but that UVF exceptions were meant to be passed by you/ogra/some others, with those conditions
<ajmitch> ogra: yes, agreed
<dcraven> Can someone say what UVF stands for so us new folk can keep up?
<Yagisan> Ubuntu Version Freeze
<Mithrandir> dcraven: upstream version freezy
<Mithrandir> freeze, even
<Lathiat> upstream version freeze
<dcraven> cheers
<ogra> upstream version freeze
* Yagisan is close enough
<ogra> we ar in it since 2 months
<dholbach> Mithrandir: freezy is funny - we should have it in one of the next releases :)
<dholbach> Mithrandir: and announce it at UbuntuBelowZero :)
<ogra> so new upstream versions need approval before they are done, to make sure a second pair of eyes looks over them
<Mithrandir> dholbach: aka outdoors meeting?
<dholbach> hehe, exactly
<Nafallo> hehe
<ogra> *shiver*
<ajmitch> ogra: we need this written up on a wiki page, with the people to contact for UVF exceptions
<dholbach> smokers bofs :)
<\sh> for dapper we HAVE to stay with UVF/FF etc.
<Nafallo> \sh: agreed
<ogra> ajmitch, we also need to respect it completely in dapper...
<ajmitch> we have to maintain a *high* quality for dapper
<ajmitch> ogra: yes, given exceptions that are tested
<ogra> so no need for a wiki page, since we will have to follow the release schedule completely in dapper
<\sh> for breezy it was as well a bit shitty, cause all this transitions and {gcc,g++}-4 fixes...
* Yagisan thinks you need more motus for dapper
<ajmitch> Yagisan: of course
<ogra> remember we'll have to support dapper for 5 years
<ajmitch> my main problem with UVF this time round was that noone really knew what was happening :)
<\sh> ogra: so..we need a good securtiy team
<ogra> so we should totally stick to the schedule as for main
<Nafallo> Yagisan: we _always_ need more MOTUs :-)
<ogra> Yagisan++
<dholbach> ok, what can we decide on this?
<ogra> dholbach, its over... failures happened... what should we decide here
<ogra> we *are* in UVF that should be promoted in the channel...
<dholbach> that's how i see it too
<Nafallo> dholbach: to learn from previous releases (incl. breezy) mistakes and start following procedures :-)
<\sh> dholbach: that we stay with _MAIN_ schedule for dapper, but it has to be discussed at UBZ how we can achieve a _secure universe_ and how the support of _dapper_ will apply to _universe/multiverse_
<ogra> no wikipage needed
<ajmitch> ogra: we'll have to talk about how lenient we can be with UVF exceptions
<ajmitch> ogra: since we'll probably get the request to import apt-get.org again 
<ajmitch> or other new stuff 
<dholbach> there should be good reasons, but we shouldnt be completely anal
<Yagisan> for secure universe - I think new updates as required should be ok
<ogra> ajmitch if the fix something ad are tested well and dont introduce additional breakage, exceptions are fine
<\sh> ajmitch: regarding UVF for dapper, we have to comply with _main_ rules...so ogra and dholbach have to approve
<ajmitch> \sh: just those 2?
<Nafallo> Yagisan: rather backports of fixes...
<Nafallo> Yagisan: where possible that is...
<dholbach> . o O { as if we didnt have other stuff to do  :-) }
<Yagisan> Nafallo: of course
<dholbach> ajmitch: no, we'll agree on a team
<\sh> ajmitch: for me ogra and dholbach are the leads...so if they share their responsibilty it's up to them :)
<Nafallo> kismet wasn't possible ;-)
<ajmitch> dholbach: we 'sort of' had a team for breezy for UVF ;)
<dholbach> but let's go ahead, if you don't mind - i really don't fancy building a complex rule system
<dholbach> ajmitch: yeah :)
<ajmitch> I don't like complex rules
<Yagisan> Nafallo - neither is tor (was that fixed ??)
<ogra> dholbach, we'll need one if we have a 5 year support cycle
<ajmitch> just ones that work, and let us get dapper rocking by release ;)
<\sh> *ALL*: lets discuss it at UBZ ;)
<\sh> with a beer ,-)
<dholbach> ogra: we will manage
<Nafallo> \sh: I can't go :-P
<ajmitch> \sh: not everyone will be there
* Yagisan can't get to UBZ
<ogra> \sh, yup
* Lathiat isn't going either
* Yagisan will attend birth of child instead
<ogra> we'll make a IRC based BOF about it ;)
<ajmitch> Yagisan: oh, congrats :)
* Nafallo will move his girlfriend home ;-)
<Lathiat> :)
<\sh> ajmitch: I think we're enough to discuss this...and prepare a proposal for agreeing with the rest...
<ajmitch> ogra: like UDU? :)
<ajmitch> \sh: yep
<ogra> ajmitch yup
<ajmitch> \sh: as long as canadian beer is good, we'll be fine ;)
<\sh> Yagisan: congrats
<Treenaks> ogra: I _will_ be coming :)
<Nafallo> ... and congrats Yagisan :-)
* ajmitch booked flights for UBZ yesterday
<Yagisan> thanks - second bub :)
<siretart> :)
* Yagisan should find more customers
<ogra> dholbach, 5 years with broken packages in universe are quite bad... "we'll manage" isnt enough
<dholbach> ogra: i didnt say that we should upload everything that gets in our hands, did i? :)
<ajmitch> ogra: so we need to recruit more :)
<ogra> dholbach, nope, but "we'll manage" isnt "we'll have to stich to release plans"
<dholbach> i just stated, that we shouldnt agree on something for the next release now
<ogra> stick too
<ajmitch> dholbach++
<Nafallo> or get canonical to pay someone for a secure universe :-P
<\sh> ogra: well...lets hear other voices about how we have to handle universe/multiverse for dapper, because officially it's not "supported" as _main_ is
<ajmitch> \sh: no, but universe is important
<\sh> ajmitch: it is for sure...
* ajmitch doesn't know where he'll be in 5 years :)
<ogra> \sh, universe will be closed as main will at release
<\sh> ajmitch: but I don't think, putting a 5 years support (server side) or 3 years (desktop side) on volunteers back
<siretart> ogra: I think if you really want to improve the over package quality in universe, we should rather take package from debian/testing instead of debian/unstable, or establish a 'testing' distribution on our own
<dholbach> hrm
<siretart> plus manual uploads
<ogra> siretart, thats a no go
<ajmitch> \sh: UniverseSecurity was written to be best-effort
<siretart> ogra: I know
<Yagisan> siretart - that would miss packages like mine
<\sh> ogra: for sure...that's not the questions...the question is: release snapshot 6.04 -> supporting 3 years a package base of >10k 
<ajmitch> testing is often less stable than unstable
<ogra> siretart, what enables us to have 6 month releases it the non existence of "testing"
<Nafallo> \sh: I agree with you fwiw. we can't have support for universe in dapper. please convince people on UBZ about that ;-).
<Kamion> officially the support just covers main
<Kamion> AFAIK
<Kamion> but the better universe can be made, the better
<Kamion> (obviously)
<ogra> Kamion++
<ajmitch> Kamion: most likely, but people will want to run universe packages
<siretart> ogra: I'm clear and happy about that disicion. 
<dholbach> and we should make more use of *-{updates,security} (and no, this is no argument for lax rules)
<Yagisan> well we will have dapper-updates for a reason
<ajmitch> dholbach: agreed
<ogra> siretart, and grabbing from debian testing will give us more outdated SW
<siretart> the other possibility would be to use dapper-updates for less than critical bugfixes
<\sh> Kamion: this is one point we should discuss at UBZ...how we see universe as one piece of work (even seeing it only community/volunteer supported) for dapper
<siretart> after dapper release. 
<ogra> Yagisan, yes as we have hoary and warty udates
<ajmitch> sounds like UBZ might have a few universe BOFs :)
<ogra> yup
<Yagisan> ogra: but they don't get much use
<siretart> yup, we should have
<ogra> Yagisan, they do for the purposed they were made for
<ogra> -d
<\sh> ogra: are they usefull for universe as well? if so, how do we use them? ,-)
<ajmitch> ok, how much mroe can we discuss this now?
<ajmitch> s/mroe/more/
<ogra> nothing, lets move it to UBZ
<dholbach> ajmitch: we should agree to defer
<ajmitch> ok
<dholbach> yeah, next item?
* ajmitch needs his beauty sleep sometime ;)
<\sh>  Transitions, Testbuilds etc. Last workload to fix (StephanHermann) (status report)
<ogra> just make sure we dont have anybody introducing any breakage in breezy *now*
<\sh> I pointed most of the things out on the wiki page...
<\sh>  CXX Transition is done. 
<ajmitch> ogra: well I'll have a new upstream for f-spot next week, but I know what bugs it fixes :)
<dholbach> excellent
<ogra> ajmitch thats ok :)
<\sh>  Unmet Deps -> slomo said 92 packages are left...
<dholbach> i will write a script that will take the popcon info and the test-build info and merge them
<ogra> sounds good for 3 weeks left
<slomo> \sh: 88 source packages... including main ones
<\sh> slomo: ok...88 :)
<ogra> :)
<\sh> some of them are haskell stuff
<ajmitch> some of the unmet deps are old, crufty, and some of them are removed from debian
<Nafallo> baah. I read popcorn. I want a script for making popcorn :-P.
<\sh> so ghc6 specialists are needed ;)
<siretart> sistpoty?
<siretart> ;)
<ogra> Nafallo, write it, youre a MOTU :)
<sistpoty> hm... i can't say I'm a specialist ;) but i'll give my best;)
<\sh> everything which is not fixable, no new upstream, no new work, should be listed asap on morgue
<ogra> nope
<ogra> only stuff users wont demand...
<\sh> ogra: please add a && in between the points
<ogra> even if it doesnt build, the source might be good to have
<\sh> or s/\,/\&\&/
<slomo> for the haskell stuff... it is behind my name on the unmet deps page... but everybody can take the stuff, i will get to it in 2 weeks otherwise (no time before that :( )
<ogra> s/doesnt build/is not fixable, no new upstream, no new work/
<sistpoty> slomo: ok
<ajmitch> 2 weeks from now is < 1 week from release, right?
<ogra> yup
<ajmitch> so we'd better help out as much as we can
<\sh> sistpoty: please check then hmake ;)
<\sh> or slomo ;)
<sistpoty> ' \sh:  i will ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: thx :)
<Nafallo> I can check slomo :-)
<slomo> \sh: i already tried to fix it... isn't that easy ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<\sh> Ok...another important thing is:
<\sh> testbuilds running now and again 
<\sh> you can find the logs to those testbuilds on http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/
<dholbach> > "i will write a script that will take the popcon info and the test-build info and merge them"  :)
<Nafallo> hmm, we need an ografying effect on that URL :-)
<dholbach> how is the gl/glu transition going on?
<\sh> important note: The testbuilds are not synced with the actual builds, so it's a snapshot of a certain date
<ogra> Nafallo, dholbachs script will do...
<Nafallo> k. I like those colorthingies :-). much easier to see what happens :-)
<\sh> when u need some informations about those outputs...please ask infinity or lamont, they can help you to understand ;)
<dholbach> how is the gl/glu transition going on?
<dholbach> are there much untransitioned items still?
<ogra> Nafallo, true, but as long as it runs through my own server i'd like to keep the traffic low... bunzipping on the fly is cpu consuming ;)
<Nafallo> ogra: hehe :-)
<siretart> dholbach: I must admit, that I lost the overview, sorry :(
<dholbach> i guess, we will find them in the test-rebuild list
<\sh> Here is what I got when running the above (Updated 2005-09-15): (BarrydeFreese)
<\sh> boson-base, felt, galan, ghc-cvs, ghc5, libsdl-erlang, ncbi-tools6, poker3d
<Nafallo> poker3d is fixed when I runned it 4 days later.
<\sh> ok
<siretart> boson-base is a beast, I tried and failed :(
<\sh> siretart: even new upstream (from real upstream) is buggy
<siretart> oh
<siretart> :/
<\sh> as many of sources on worldforge
<ajmitch> ghc5 can be dropped, as can ghc-cvs?
<\sh> there are many things from old kde sources included which is fcking shit
<sistpoty> hm... -cvs seems to be a cvs snapshot... if we pull newest sources it shouldn't be that hard to get it to work
<\sh> sistpoty: nescessary to have it for breezy?
<Nafallo> yepp, still the same except poker3d :-)
<sistpoty> ' \sh: no
* Nafallo updates the wiki
<\sh> sistpoty: so leave it as broken package or remove the binaries by elmo and leave it as source? ,-)
<Yagisan> is it possible (in future) for when we upload something to revu
<sistpoty> ' \sh: a old version of the -cvs is almost useless... ;)
<Yagisan> that we can get it autobuild on all ubuntu arches
<\sh> sistpoty: ok...so morgue
<Yagisan> with build logs sent to us ?
<\sh> Yagisan: if you provide an amd64 + ppc?
<ogra> Yagisan, we have the buildds for that...
<\sh> + ia64 + sparc64? ,-)
<\sh> and sparc32 ,-)
<Nafallo> I wish tiber was amd64 so that we could build amd64+i386 :-)
<ogra> revu is for review, a testbuild on one arch is a nice goddie, but cant replace the real buildds
<sistpoty> Yagisan: autobuilding on i386 is planned however ;)
<siretart> developer machines would be nice ;)
<Yagisan> yep - but it's nice to fix the bugs  before that get into universe
<Yagisan> s/that/they
<ogra> i think thats something to address at UBZ
<\sh> yes
<ajmitch> once launchpad is fully operational, people will be able to do autobuilds on canonical's servers
<Nafallo> Yagisan: that's why everyone builds them and leave a comment? ;-)
<siretart> wow
<ajmitch> since they just commit a branch, and request a build of that branch
<ajmitch> afaict
<ajmitch> it's some serious crack going on there ;)
<Nafallo> siretart: ey! could we have checkboxes? tested on: [X]  amd64 [X]  i386 [X]  ppc ?
<sistpoty> Nafallo: good idea ;)
<siretart> Nafallo: would be possible, file a bug in trac ;)
<Yagisan> very good idea
<lamont> ajmitch: that is correct
<Nafallo> hmm, where is this trac-thingie? :-P
<ajmitch> lamont: about the crack? :)
<lamont> although first-launch you only get FCC architectures, I believe.
<lamont> no, about what launchpad does.
<sistpoty> Nafallo: http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi
<ajmitch> lamont: right
<\sh> http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/
<ajmitch> what other meeting topics? .desktop files?
<\sh> yes...when we have time we should also work on them
<sistpoty> is there some doc to .desktop files?
<ajmitch> there are some wiki pages
<ajmitch> it's fairly basic to write the files
<sistpoty> k
<ajmitch> moderately easy to get them installed with the package
<\sh> checking before if upstream (== debian and real) has one. if not, then create one, if yes, include it
<Nafallo> ticket 5 filed :-)
<ajmitch> debian often has the menu file, which can be converted I believe
<Lathiat> with menu-xdg
<siretart> ajmitch: for very basic things, perhaps. xdg and .desktop files are more mighty, I think..
<ajmitch> siretart: sure, but we usually just want something basic so a user can start an app
<ogra> but they are essential for g-a-i
<siretart> right, too
<ajmitch> right, I forgot about g-a-i using them
<Yagisan> g-a-i ?
<ajmitch> gnome-app-install
<Yagisan> thanks
<ajmitch> iirc :)
<ajmitch> or add applications in your applications menu on breezy 
<\sh> ajmitch: gnome that is ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: well that's what all the cool people use ;)
* sistpoty is not cool
<sistpoty> ;)
<siretart> lol
<\sh> ajmitch: then i'm uber-kewl...i'm using both .. or even a n00b ;-)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> any other meeting business?
<\sh> next meeting? 
<ajmitch> mm, thanks :)
<dholbach> after UBZ?
<ajmitch> at UBZ? :)
<dholbach> hehe
<ajmitch> since UBZ is 2-3 weeks after release
<\sh> _at_ for some MOTUS, after with all MOTUs (well all!=all in this sense, well...gnarf)
<ajmitch> not sure when dapper is open for upload
<siretart> what are our priorities to release?
<ajmitch> but we'll want to do some planning
<ogra> ajmitch, one or two weeks after UBZ i guess
<\sh> ajmitch: i think it will be open much faster then the last time
<ajmitch> ogra: breezy was open for uploads at UDU
<ogra> during UDU iic
<ajmitch> we were doing crazy mono uploads, remember
<ajmitch> so shall we have our next MOTU meeting between release day & UBZ?
<ajmitch> it'll give us some ideas for BOFs as well
<ogra> yup
<\sh> ok
<ogra> and one at UBZ 
<ajmitch> ok
<Yagisan> whats the policy for "freelancers" like me - that aren't motu's - pass our stuff through revu ?
<Kamion> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 00:05:56 +0100 (BST)
<ogra> i.e. a BOF/Meeting mix
<Kamion> ^-- first upload to breezy
<Kamion> UDU was 25-30 April
<ogra> ah, ok
<\sh> what about 2005-10-19? 
<dholbach> Yagisan: you'll be a MOTU soon, but before, people will sponsor your uploads
<ajmitch> Yagisan: yeah, or put them up on the appropriate wiki page
<\sh> for the BoF/MOTU meeting?
<Nafallo> wow. it was open _before_ UDU :-P
<ajmitch> \sh: sounds good
<ajmitch> \sh: time of day?
<Kamion> hoary release was 8 April
<\sh> any objections? so swapping time to 20UTC/22UTC?
<Kamion> so expect dapper to be open early the week after breezy release
<Nafallo> 20 should work :-)
<ajmitch> Kamion: great, thanks
<Kamion> there was a semi-official "go and get some sleep" policy for the weekend after hoary release
<Nafallo> that's 22 for me :-P
<ajmitch> Kamion: we'll have syncs starting pretty much straight away?
* ajmitch imagines we'll have a big MOTU merge party at the start of dapper
<\sh> any voices on the time?
<Kamion> ajmitch: should imagine so, yes; that was how it worked for breezy
<ajmitch> \sh: 20UTC is good for me
<Nafallo> \sh: NOT 22 ;-)
<\sh> ok 2005-10-19 20:00 UTC 
<\sh> 3
<\sh> 2
<\sh> 1
<\sh> settled ;) 
<ajmitch> yay ;)
<sistpoty> yeehaa
<Nafallo> we :-)
<ajmitch> beer time now? ;)
<Nafallo> close the meeting now? :-)
<Yagisan> not quite
<dholbach> yeah
<\sh> something else for now?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: damn, it's early afternoon here ;)
<Yagisan> I will do a quick sec update of prelink
<\sh> I'm still in the office ;)
<Yagisan> for hoary
<ajmitch> sistpoty: shall I do minutes, or do you want to do them this time?
<Yagisan> who do I send it too ?
<ajmitch> Yagisan: ok, usual security review procedures for that
<Nafallo> Yagisan: security-review@lists.ubuntu.com :-)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: i could write up a draft, and correct my sh*t?
<Yagisan> it's fixed in breezy
<ajmitch> sistpoty: sure
<Yagisan> but not hoary
<sistpoty> ajmitch: cool
<ajmitch> Yagisan: that's fine, but pitti will review & probably upload
<ajmitch> sistpoty: thanks :)
<Yagisan> pitti fixed breezy (after I nagged him)
<Nafallo> Yagisan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com//SecurityUpdateProcedures
<\sh> ok I'll update the wiki pages
<ogra> err, does that fit into the TZ we are in at UBZ ?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: np ;)
<Yagisan> thanks
<ajmitch> Yagisan: was that the address space exposure?
<Yagisan> yep
<ajmitch> ogra: that's the pre-UBZ meeting
<Yagisan> it's like 30 seconds to fix
<\sh> ogra: pre-UBZ ;)
<ogra> oh, ok
<ajmitch> ogra: we'll be starting UBZ about 11-12 days later
<Yagisan> but it will be on my business website the day breezy comes out
<\sh> ogra: UBZ is starting for me with a beer...;)
<ogra> \sh said BoF/MOTU meeting, i mixed that up
<\sh> ogra: yes...some points for additional BoFs at UBZ ;)
<ogra> yup
<ogra> got it now :)
<Yagisan> so I thought I may as well fix it now
* Treenaks can't wait for it to be UBZ-time :)
<ajmitch> \sh: only 1 beer? :)
<Nafallo> ey! it's kernel freeze today?
<ajmitch> Nafallo: yup
<\sh> ajmitch: a beer means "sitting at cologne airport and drink at least 3 before 10:45" ,-)
<ajmitch> \sh: haha
<Nafallo> that means I could upgrade my server.
<\sh> kernelfreeze is 29th , right?
<slomo> oh no... so breezy will be incompatible with my ibook :(
<ajmitch> \sh: I've got a few stops on the way - so I might hit the bars at the airport :)
<ajmitch> \sh: I heard vancouver has free wifi too :)
<\sh>  September 29th
<\sh> 
<\sh> 
<\sh> Breezy: ArtworkDeadline, NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline, KernelFreeze
<Nafallo> stupid ISP not giving me higher bandwidth :-(
<\sh> 
<\sh> ajmitch: lets what ffm has ;)
<Treenaks> \sh: Kln? I thought you were flying from Frankfurt?
<\sh> frankfurt/main even
<ajmitch> Yagisan: if there's any other issues, please let us know if you can :)
<\sh> Treenaks: I start at cologne via frankfurt straight to montreal ;)
<Yagisan> ajmitch - I do - as allways
<Treenaks> \sh: ah.. I'm still on Schiphol -> Heathrow -> Montreal
<\sh> Treenaks: in frankfurt I will meet with siretart ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: the last kernel comes today, then they will have a week to squash the bugs in it ;-)
* ajmitch does dunedin->auckland->san francisco->vancouver->montreal
<Treenaks> \sh: together with spacey
<Yagisan> usually give one - two weeks before sticking it on my website
<\sh> Treenaks: read about it :) 
<ajmitch> Yagisan: great, thanks
<Yagisan> depending on severity
<ajmitch> so I've got a few hours at least of sitting in airports on the way there
<Yagisan> I sat on prelink since UDU because it's not directly expoitable
* Yagisan needs to get his new gpg key signed
* ajmitch really has to get active in the universe security team for dapper
<ogra> Yagisan, where in .au are you ? 
<Yagisan> Sydney
<ajmitch> ogra: you met him at UDU, remember?
<ajmitch> or at least I think you met him..
<ogra> Yagisan, lifeless or jdub should be able to sign you then
<Treenaks> ogra: jdub is going to be hard during his tour :)
* ajmitch doesn't plan to be back in sydney this year
<ajmitch> lifeless is back there now from london
* Yagisan has new key on multiple redundant backups this time
<ogra> ajmitch, since he cant find a photo, i still dont know who he is :)
<Nafallo> Yagisan: good :-)
<Yagisan> ogra: I have a scanner - give me a few minutes
<ogra> Treenaks, did that start already  
<ogra> ?
* ajmitch is sad that hostinggeek never turned up at UDU :)
<Treenaks> ogra: no, Oct 7
<ogra> ajmitch, i guess he knows why he didnt come ;)
<ajmitch> ogra: perhaps :)
<\sh> ajmitch: he is worse then diablo-3d?
* ajmitch isn't going to take it further in here :P
<ogra> heh
<ajmitch> night all
<Yagisan> night ajmitch
<dholbach> night andrew
<Ivarix> mako: ping pong :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-28
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 23 Sep 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 28 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 3 Oct 18:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 4 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechnicalBoard | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU
<jsgotangco> nice..maybe in a few more minutes
<jsgotangco> hey
<jsgotangco> it seems only us
<jsgotangco> heh
<mpt> What did you expect, the Spanish Inquisition?
<ogra> lots of lurkers ;)
<mitsuhiko> hi doc-team
<jsgotangco> mitsuhiko: hi
<mitsuhiko> :-)
<jsgotangco> ok a few more minutes...
<jsgotangco> ah well it seems no one is coming then
<jsgotangco> alright, whoever is lurking at the moment, I've already drafted a release notes doc for breezy located at BreezyReleaseNotes
<jsgotangco> on the wiki
<jsgotangco> would appreciate the devels look at it and fill it up
<jsgotangco> will be sending an email to the list later about it
<jsgotangco> in other news, Corey announced that QuickTour is already done and the work for screenshots would be next
<jsgotangco> if i remember right he said he'll add screenshots when we have artwork freeze
<jsgotangco> I'm not sure of the current status of translations but it seems a number is already complete
<jsgotangco> so please check BreezyReleaseNotes and edit as needed: Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu
<jsgotangco> Edubuntu stuff is on the Edubuntu.org wiki pae
<jsgotangco> any questions???
<mpt> sounds good
<jsgotangco> hopefully, during UBZ, we'll have a BOF at least
<jjesse> sorry i'm back
<jjesse> boss needed me :(
<jsgotangco> hi jjesse! no problem
<jsgotangco> anything to share??
<jjesse> just working on getting stuff updated for breezy
<jjesse> Riddell has been a big help in that
<Riddell> I have?  cool
<jjesse> Riddell: you've answered every question i've asked you
<Riddell> kindae the least I can do
<jsgotangco> i've seen your release notes (Kawabunga!)
<mpt> jsgotangco: A BoF with nobody there?
<mpt> or are you going?
<jsgotangco> mpt: Corey is going
<jsgotangco> i didnt get sponsored
<jsgotangco> (its too far)
<Riddell> jjesse: when do you think you'll have stuff that I should review (and upload)?
<jjesse> i'm going to my in-laws this weekend so i'll have plenty time while my wife spends time w/ her family to work
<jjesse> i'm going to shoot for end of next week?
<jjesse> that should be release notes and quickguide
<Riddell> jjesse: cool
<Riddell> jjesse: let me know if you want me to review stuff in the mean time
<jjesse> when the FAQ guide was changed did anyone make changes for Kubuntu?
<jjesse> Riddell: thanks i will
<jjesse> like make it current for breezy if changes needed to be made?
<jsgotangco> as for me Edubuntu work, About Edubuntu is already in html for FF start page
<sivang> what meeting is this now?
<sivang> ah, docteam
<jsgotangco> sivang: should be docteam
<jsgotangco> but a lot didnt come
<jsgotangco> its becoming a trend :(
<sivang> how come?
<jsgotangco> sivang: no idea they agreed on this day and time though
<sivang> ok, do we have an erreta list or something close?
<sivang> (Maybe the place is in the releae notes)
<jsgotangco> BreezyReleaseNotes is the working draft
<jsgotangco> all known issues should also be listed
<sivang> ok, there's a pending bug for Dapper, http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15017
<sivang> what do you think?
<jsgotangco> that's a known issue then
<sivang> jsgotangco: I know, I reported it :) but shoudln't it go in the release notes?
<jsgotangco> sivang: sure kamion already indicated so
<jsgotangco> feel free to add it on BreezyReleaseNotes page
<sivang> k
<jsgotangco> thanks
<sivang> no prob, I hate to see many unweary users falls on this
<sivang> could create lots of unneccessary noise
<jsgotangco> is there a workaround?
<Kamion> don't use LVM?
<Kamion> or set it up manually
<Kamion> to have a separate /boot partition
<jsgotangco> hi mdke
<Kamion> the latter is probably a more realistic recommendation
<mdke> hello jsgotangco 
<mdke> anything -doc going on?
<jsgotangco> mdke: meeting?
<jsgotangco> well not many came so we're just collecting stuff
<mdke> great
<jsgotangco> for the release notes
<mdke> ah cool
<jsgotangco> mdke: you got news on translations?
<mdke> of what nature?
<mdke> translation is going nicely
<mdke> lots of languages are done for about-ubuntu and the faqguide is moving along steadily
<mdke> we need to upload a new faqguide template and I'm working with rob^ about that
<mdke> is he here?
<jsgotangco> no
<jsgotangco> probably won't
<jsgotangco> its already 3am on his side
<jsgotangco> 2 rather
<mdke> ah!
<mdke> np we'll do it by email
<jsgotangco> corey announced that his quicktour is already done
<mdke> sorry to interrupt, keep going
<jsgotangco> and up for translation
<jsgotangco> mdke: its ok we're almost done anyways
<jsgotangco> alright anyone else?
<jjesse> not really
<mdke> how is jbailey getting on with uploading ubuntu-docs?
<mdke> sorry if that question has already come up
<jsgotangco> mdke: i haven't seen him lately at all
<mdke> ok
<mdke> i'm getting emails from rob^ so he is obviously doing the night shift at work ;)
<mdke> is anyone going to UBZ?
<mdke> from -doc
<jsgotangco> corey is
<jsgotangco> he got sponsored
<mdke> good
<mdke> i was thinking
<mdke> we need to put forward the idea that docteam translations be included in the language-packs
<mdke> or alternatively, that a separate script is prepared to get them uploaded automatically, because it is a PITA to download and convert to xml manually
<mpt> I'm going to UBZ
<mdke> cool
<mdke> i kinda assumed that :D
<mdke> mpt, good chance to do a BOF on Ubuntu Help then!
<mpt> yes :-)
<mpt> or at least get HelpfulHelp approved
<mpt> and yelp decrackage bountied
<mdke> :)
<jeffsch> ok, what else we have on the agenda?
<jsgotangco> oh!
<jsgotangco> ok sorry
<jsgotangco> if there is nothing else, we're done
<jsgotangco> hey jeffsch i didn't notice you were here
<mdke> does anyone know the status of help.ubuntu.com?
<jsgotangco> sorry...the fridge.ubuntu.com is up already though :)
<mdke> yep
<mdke> jeffsch, would you be able to help in making a script to do the po->xml thing semi-automatically? i know that you can do scripty things :D
<mdke> assuming we downloaded the po files and put em in the right directories
<jeffsch> I'm not sure I have time
<mdke> okay
<jeffsch> I don't know what it would involve, but I can look into it sometime on the weekend
<mdke> jeffsch, email me if you have time?
<jeffsch> ok
<jeffsch> segfault was working on something earlier this week
<jeffsch> but my memory is faulty, and I can't remember many of the details :(
<jeffsch> oh yeah, it had to do with creating an html from the translated docs
<mdke> yep
<mdke> i think he was working from the wrong original doc though, can't remember
<jeffsch> he had a short little script that did po->xml thing
<jeffsch> you should be able to find it in the logs, or just ask him directly
<mdke> ok
<mdke> the command is very simply, it's just that I don't know scripts
<mdke> simple
<mdke> ah I see his script on the ML
<mdke> what we would need would be one which would do that for all languages
<jeffsch> yeah, but if you need it quickly, I'm not your guy. I don't know scripty things well enough to do it both quickly and properly at the same time
<jbailey> If you can describe exactly what you need, I can script for you.
<jbailey> But I don't know those tools at all.
<mdke> ok jbailey we can do that
<mdke> jbailey, i'll mail you at some stage
<jbailey> mdke: Luvly.
<mdke> jbailey@ ?
<jbailey> ubuntu.com
<mdke> yeah, it was the first bit I was checking ;)
<jbailey> *lol*
<jbailey> =)
<mdke> cool
<jbailey> Yeah, I think for everyone it's just launchpad-account@ubuntu.com
<jbailey> For members, anyway
<mdke> i thought you might be an employee :D
<Kamion> employees who had @ubuntu.com accounts before it was done for all members are grandfathered, AFAIK
<jbailey> Well, I am, but aside from that all Ubuntu members now have @ubuntu.com addresses as I understand it.
<mdke> yes
<jbailey> Kamion: Ah, cool.
<mdke> anyhow, i'll mail ya, it's dead easy and it will help maybe when packaging ubuntu-docs
<jbailey> I'm be surprised if many of our LP accounts didn't match it anyway.
<jeffsch> ok, i'm off to work. cya
<jbailey> mdke: Lovely, thanks.
* ogra goes to check for grey hair in the mirror
<jbailey> ogra: You need to grow your hair.
<jbailey> THen you can see them without a mirror ;)
<mdke> lol
<mdke> he can surely
<ogra> heh
<ogra> jbailey, it starts at the roots, not the tips ;)
<jbailey> ogra: My silver hairs are long enough that I can see them clearly now. =)
<jbailey> But I'm old ;)
<ogra> HAHAHA
<ogra> youre not even 30 :)
<jbailey> Sure, but noone believes you when you say '29' =)
<ogra> heh
<jbailey> "Mhm, yeah sure." (they scribble 'age not disclosed')
<ogra> we'll bring you good into your 30s at UBZ ;)
<jbailey> It's funny 'cause it's true.
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-29
<jamey3> I've just cleaned up an Ubuntu wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WebBrowsingSlowIPv6IPv4
<jamey3> I couldn't find many guidelines for writing style and so on, so I just made it more concise and renamed the page for correctness.
<jamey3> Is that okay?
<ogra> jamey3, you should probably ask in #ubuntu-doc ;)
<jamey3> i did, no response!
<jamey3> i really just want to know what the acceptable norm is
<ogra> no idea, thats what the docteam is for :)
<jamey3> :P
<jamey3> is everyone really busy atm with ubuntu stuff then?
<ogra> yup, 3 weeks to release
<jamey3> i can't wait
<rejden> re
<rejden> can anyone answer me few questions about setuping LoCoTeam?
<JanC> rejden: there is a contact address for that on the site IIRC?
<JanC> and a mailing list
<JanC> oh, and maybe ask "smurf"  :)
<rejden> JanC, yes mailing list but i want some quick info
<rejden> ok, i'll try to contact him :)
<rejden> JanC, btw the site is somehow confusing me ;/
<JanC> did you see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto
<rejden> yes
<rejden> somehow i created page in wiki
<rejden> :)
<rejden> actually i'm using qwiki for my opensource group so i'm a bit familiar with it
<JanC> Matthias Urlichs = smurf
<JanC> like that wiki page says, he approves LoCo teams
<JanC> so we'll have a Slovak LoCo team in the near future...  :-)
<rejden> hehe
<rejden> actually is kinda hack cos my opensource interest in slovakia govermnent and school sector need decent linux distrubution
<rejden> so i choosed ubuntu cos i'm kinda new to it but i like it :P
<JanC> I just gave an ubuntu CD to a member of the IT team of a Belgian city that's looking into the option of using linux instead of windows  :-)
<JanC> hope he likes it too  :-)
<rejden> hehe
<rejden> he should
<JanC> they already use debian on their servers, and he was going to test debian as a desktop OS, so I gave a small promo talk about ubuntu  :)
<rejden> i want to do the same
<rejden> but we need i18n first
<rejden> ;)
<JanC> I think many programs are translated already?
<rejden> some of them, actually slovak openoffice team is under my group too
<rejden> which is good horse ;)
<JanC> I'm part of the dutch translation team of ubuntu and I also (help) translate some other programs
<JanC> (about 60% of Belgians speak Dutch)
<rejden> that's nice
<rejden> dutch country have also some more influence on belgium :P
<JanC> ?
<JanC> I don't understand what you mean by that...
<JanC> btw: is there a lot of difference between cz & sk language?
<rejden> in grammar a lot
<rejden> JanC, i ment smoking weed :)
<JanC> ah
<rejden> JanC, but we need slovak i18n for goverment and schools
<rejden> for people it doesnt matter if it's slovak or czech
<JanC> smoking weed is more or less allowed in Belgium too   ;)
<rejden> czech people have problem understanding slovak (hearing or reading) mainly the younger kinds
<rejden> JanC, good for you, we have penaltys and actually 50% of population don't give a f*ck
<JanC> well, it's still illegal, but it's official "lowest priority" if you do it in private and don't involve minors
<JanC> "lowest priority" means that they have too much work with other things already
<rejden> here is somehow tolerated but you must watch yourself, i get caught few times by police and they just did the blablabla bububu things but left me alone
<rejden> i mainly smoke at home so that's safe
<JanC> yeah, something like that, only it's semi-official here
<JanC> you know, even in The Netherlands it's still legally forbidden...
<rejden> dunno, i didn't saw the law there
<rejden> in austria you can buy young weed plants, they are legal until they don't have THC
<JanC> In the Netherlands they collect taxes (VAT) on weed sales that are legally forbidden  ;-)
<rejden> lol
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-30
<rejden> ok i finally made the wiki and entry on teh list
<rejden> that wiki is damn mess
<rejden> :)
<JanC> not really if you start on the frontpage
<JanC> or use the search function  :)
<rejden> will you bet on it? ,)
<rejden> heh here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamRunning it says join the software freedom day, actually i organize that event in slovakia without knowing of this "rule" :P
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ |  27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 28 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 3 Oct 18:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 4 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechnicalBoard | 7 Oct 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-10-02
* arzajac testing out timestamps in loggs
<arzajac> jdodson:  Hi Jon!
<jdodson> hello.
<jdodson> oh hey, i just realized its you andrew:)
* jdodson is slow.
<SquishyWaffle> looks like an interesting meeting today
<jdodson> SquishyWaffle: yup.
<Belutz> is it 1.5hour more?
<dholbach> yes
<Belutz> :)
<Belutz> it's 1:30am in here :(
<Seveas> 20:30 here
<Seveas> I'm watching MythBusters on discovery :)
<Belutz> hehe
<Belutz> i'll wait just for ubuntu :D
<Seveas> arzajac, there?
<arzajac> Seveas:  yes.
<Seveas> arzajac, did you read my comment next to your name on the Agenda?
<arzajac> Seveas: Please defer until after forums issue ... Yes.  I understand.
<Seveas> ok, just wanted to know whether you had objections against defering :)
<arzajac> np
<Belutz> one hour to go
<Seveas> +8 minutes
<Seveas> +20 minutes wait for the CC
<Seveas> I'm gonna go write my PSA
<Belutz> wew
<Belutz> they always late? :p
<Seveas> they tend to be 
<Belutz> i see
<Belutz> hmm
<rejden> can i discuss about l10n problem on this LoCo meeting?
<Seveas> depends on the problem
<Seveas> rejden, what's the problem?
<rejden> we have myspell, ispell and openoffice.org-hyphenation localized into our native language
<Belutz> will this channel be set to moderated when the meeting starts?
<rejden> and we want to have it in ubuntu
<Seveas> rejden, that's not something for the CC
<Seveas> you need to go to the developers meeting
<rejden> ok, and can you point where i can discuus about this?
<rejden> ok, thanks
<Seveas> or simply send a mail to ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com / file a bug at bugzilla.ubuntu.com
<rejden> Seveas, i want to talk about it first, cos some of them are already aviable in ubuntu but they are somehow broken in someways
<ogra> rejden, mail about it to -devel to discuss it
<Seveas> ok, the (afaik) best thing for that is to send a mail to ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com explaining it
<rejden> ogra, i'll do
<Seveas> and thanks for wanting to improve Ubuntu!
<rejden> Seveas, it's must ,)
<rejden> ok, and doing local ubuntushipit is for LoCo meet?
<dholbach> Belutz: no, it won't, but we'll all stick to an agenda
<Belutz> ok
<sturmkind> hello
<jdong__> sturmkind: greetings :)
<jjesse> hello sturmkind and jdong__ 
<sivang> is CC meeting over now?
<jdong> not started
<jdong> 20 more minutes-ish
<sturmkind> hello jdong  und jjesse ;-)
<jjesse> i was hoping it wasn't as i've missed the last 3
<sturmkind> hello markuman 
<mitsuhiko> ;)
<mitsuhiko> hi all
<juliux> hi mitsuhiko 
<rejden> evening
<jdong> afternoon
<sturmkind> hello mitsuhiko ;-)
<sturmkind> hey juliux 
<sturmkind> night ;-)
<rejden> jdong, hehe
<sturmkind> hello umarmung 
<umarmung> hi sascha
<mitsuhiko> hi umarmung 
<jjesse> you know its going to be my luck that as soon as we get started my boss will want me :(
<umarmung> hi mitsuhiko 
<Seveas> jjesse, I will move you to the front
<thesaltydog> hi everybody
<Seveas> jjesse, you're not on the list
<sturmkind> hello thesaltydog 
<jjesse> i was one of those that hadn't shown up at past meetings
<jdong> how many permutations of hellos can we do in this room?
<jdong> lol
<jjesse> hmm looking at agenda
<thesaltydog> jdong, n!
<Belutz> good morning all :D
<Seveas> jjesse, then add your name to the front of the memberlist now
<jjesse> Seveas: on the agenda it says i needed to show up @ next meeting
<thesaltydog> Belutz, morning??
<mitsuhiko> hi ivoks
<ivoks> hi
<Belutz> thesaltydog, yup... its 2:45am in here :p
<Seveas> jjesse, yes, but in order to be considered you need to be on the list above that
<jjesse> Seveas: ok thanks
<ogra> thesaltydog, you should put up a list of your bugs on the wikipage ;) that helps a lot
<sturmkind> Belutz: we have 9:49 pm ;-)
<ivoks> ah... CC is now?
<Belutz> sturmkind, wew... lucky for you :D
<sturmkind> Belutz: yes no work the next hours ;-D
<thesaltydog> ogra, a list of reported bugs?
<mitsuhiko> hm. but school tomorrow :p
<ogra> thesaltydog, sure
<Nafallo> "Report from the next LoCoTeamMeeting"
<Belutz> sturmkind, hehehe... i got java seminars at 8am
<ivoks> ogra: evening
<thesaltydog> ogra, you mean I am reporting too much? :-)
<sturmkind> mitsuhiko: tomorrow is my free day
<Seveas> VincentUntz, ShwnShifflett, StacyWebb, FabioMarcozza, SorenHansen, ZakElep, all here?
<ogra> thesaltydog, call it "bugs i'm invloved with" ;)
<Nafallo> isn't it better to report from the previous one?
<mitsuhiko> sturmkind: lucky one
<sturmkind> Belutz: have a lot of fun :-D
<jdong> just in case I g2g too early, Mirrormax for all intents and purposes is down
<ivoks> yay! :)
<ogra> yay
<Belutz> sturmkind, i will. they said they will give away solaris 10 dvds
<jdong> :)
<ogra> jdong, thank you soo much
* ogra hugs jdong 
<jdong> ogra: sure; in reality, Mirrormax has received no uploads since we went official
<thesaltydog> Seveas, my name correct name is FabioMarzocca
<jdong> ogra: FF 1.0.6 was backported before that happened
<Seveas> thesaltydog, sorry about that
<ogra> jdong, and sorry for the rant...
<thesaltydog> Seveas, np
<sturmkind> Belutz: hm nice but i'm not a very big friend of sun ^^
<jdong> ogra: np; we all need wakeup calls once in a while :) (and the k3b problem isn't Backports related)
<Seveas> ErdalRonahi?
<jdong> Though one thing: Is it OK if I keep Mirrormax up to resolve FF 1.0.7?
<Belutz> sturmkind, so am i, but it will do no harm trying :D
<\sh> jdong: no
<sturmkind> Belutz: hehe
<jdong> that should keep those w/o archive.ubuntu.com backports from coming and bitching at you guys, though
<\sh> jdong: your team should leave ff untouched...pitti is handling it
<Seveas> jdong, no, just take it down completely, they'll wake up and see things have changed
<jdong> Seveas: k, I'll issue svn rm in a sec
<\sh> Seveas: the people are reading the forum, and they understand
<sturmkind> 9 minutes
<Seveas> sturmkind, you don't need to count :)
<Belutz> nybble, hai :D
<titus`> hi all!
<nybble> hey belutz, hey titus
<sturmkind> Seveas: just for fun :-D
<sturmkind> hello titus` 
<\sh> jdong: so can I take the point from the agenda?
<\sh> remove it better to say?
<jdong> sure; I'm removing the repos now
<Seveas> jdong, rock!
<jdong> ubuntubackports.org has already been updated to reflect this
<jdong> :)
<Seveas> </jdub_mode>
<Nafallo> hehe
<\sh> jdong: thx...
<Seveas> that's one item less on the agenda
<ubuntugeek> hello all
<sivang> hey all
<Treenaks> hi all
<ogra> yo
<jdong> ** watching all the D's scroll down the page :)
<Treenaks> jdong: D's?
<Seveas> can we skip more agenda meetings before the meeting starts? :)
<jdong> LOL
<Nafallo> hehe
<sturmkind> hehe
<jdong> Treenaks: svn rm status
<rejden> Seveas, you wish :P
<Seveas> Treenaks, svn del backports ;)
<Treenaks> Seveas: \o/
<ogra> :-D
<jdong> k, no longer exists
<jdong> I'll try to get into contact with mirror admins to propagate that quickly
<ogra> jdong, so now on to your MOTUness *g*
<Seveas> ogra, lol :)
<jdong> ogra: lol, not that again
<ogra> *G*
<Seveas> always recruiting :)
<dholbach> oh come on, jdong 
<jdong> hey, Ubuntu benefits from it :)
<dholbach> jdong: it's fun
<jdong> but my decision may change later on this year when my schedule frees
<ogra> yeah :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> ogra AND dholbach :-P
<Nafallo> gl defending yourself jdong ;-)
<nybble> :D
<jdong> ogra: after that huge rant about me ignoring Backports, I decided my schedule doesn't have many holes :)
<jdong> Nafallo: thx
<\sh> jdong: actually we all solved the problem internally...so everything is fine, nobody died :)
<ivoks> jdong: \sh blog it :)
<\sh> ivoks: I will
<jdong> \sh: ?
<jdong> Anyone got ShaneAu of Mirrormax's e-mail?
<ivoks> \sh: Please shoutdown ubuntu-backports :)
<jdong> ivoks: lol
<\sh> jdong: after the discussions on -backports ml...now everything is fine..and we have our peace again..
<ivoks> jdong: with 4 ! :)
<sivang> are you discussing backports now?
<\sh> jdong: well..actually you can ask mitsuhiko and others from our german support forum how it was during the weekend :)
<Seveas> \begin{PublicServiceAnnouncement}
<Seveas> Hello everybody, welcome to the Community Council Meeting. The meeting will start in a few minutes (hopefully). The agenda for today can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda Please stick to the agenda and don't go off-topic CC meetings take lang enough already. All member candidates, make sure your wikipage is up-to-date and prepare a 3 line introduction (which you will have 
<Seveas> to give in this channel) describing your past contributions to Ubuntu, your plans and your vision of the Ubuntu feature. Make sure you ALREADY are on the launchpad Ubuntu members page and that you upload a signed copy of the CoC as soon as possible. Everybody who has an item on the agenda please prepare a few lines describing it so you can easily paste it in the channel later to give everybody an 
<Seveas> overview. LocoTeam leaders, prepare a few lines in which you describe the status of your team, what your team is currently doing and what the plans are.
<Seveas> \end{PublicServiceAnnouncement}
<markuman> urgh
<mitsuhiko> hm
<mitsuhiko> sivang: you're to late
<Seveas> zakame, are you ZakElep?
<nalioth> Seveas: you didnt use your announcer voice
<zakame> hello all
<zakame> Seveas: yes =)
<jdong> let's spend another 10 minutes saying hi :)
<sturmkind> lol
<Kamion> ok folks, please less chatter; I'd have been here earlier except there was so much backlog to read through on an 80x25 terminal :)
<\sh> 20:00 UTC 
<sivang> Kamion: lost X ? :)
<markuman> CoC on signed on launchpad with "Find and Import" gpgkey????
<markuman> and what 3 lines should i write on my wiki page?
<rejden> i don't get that Find and Import thing
<Seveas> rejden, markuman -> wiki.ubuntu.com/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
<Kamion> markuman: please ask for help on launchpad elsewhere, such as #launchpad
<Seveas> and please as of now, no off-topic chatter
* smurf hands seveas a big gavel
* mvo waves to markuman 
<Seveas> we will wait for mako and/or sabdfl to arrive so we can start
<markuman> "find and import" makes an error to me!             Sorry, a system error occurred
<elmo> mako sends his apologies
<Kamion> markuman: #launchpad please!
<jjesse> Seveas:  my boss needs me i hate missing these meetings
<sivang> Seveas: you're a CC member ?
<elmo> so we're only waiting for sabdfl
<markuman> hm ok sry
<elmo> sivang: no
<Seveas> CC members are elmo, kamion, sabdfl and mako
<sabdfl> evening all
<ivoks> evening sabdfl 
<zed> good evening too ;)
<jdong> evening :)
<thesaltydog> sabdfl, ciao
<zakame> sabdfl: hello
<sivang> hi there sabdfl 
<ubuntugeek> hello
<sabdfl> sorry, brief bandwidth all
<sturmkind> hi sabdfl 
<jdong> lol
<sabdfl> outage, even
<Seveas> evening sabdfl
<ogra> hey sabdfl 
<LinuxPeach> hello hello :)
<\sh> evenign sabdfl 
<shawarma> Hi there
<mvo> hello
<Seveas> will you lead the meeting in makos absence?
<sabdfl> sure
<sabdfl> elmo, Kamion: around?
<Seveas> OK, then it's time for the naming round
<elmo> sabdfl: yeah
* Seveas == Dennis Kaarsemaker
<Yann2> Yann Hamon, Ubuntu-fr
* Nafallo == ChristianBjlevik
* sabdfl => Mark Shuttleworth
* \sh == StephanHermann
<mitsuhiko> hi sabdfl
* smurf is MatthiasUrlichs
* shawarma == SorenHansen
* dand is Dan Damian
* ogra <- OliverGrawert
* Belutz == Andi Darmawan
* nalioth is Marek Spruell
* sivang = Sivan Greenberg
* Treenaks is Martijn van de Streek
* mvo Michael Vogt
<sturmkind> == Sascha Morr
* jdodson jdodson -> Jon Dodson
<vuntz> == Vincent Untz
* mitsuhiko Armin Ronacher
* arzajac == Andrew Zajac
* ubuntugeek is Ryan Troy
* thoreauputic is Peter Garrett
* LinuxPeach = Kassetra
* ivoks is Ante Karamatic
* Kamion is Colin Watson
<thesaltydog> thesalydog -> Fabio Marzocca
<jdong> jdong = jdong / John Dong?
* zakame Zak Elep
* otep Joseph Mercado
* littlepaul Andreas Brunner
* elmo is James Troup
* dholbach is Daniel Holbach
* mvo waves to littlepaul 
<markuman>  == Markus Bergholz
* rejden Jan Husar
* bojicas Silviu Bojica
<Seveas> We seem to be missing a Kamion
* titus` David Larlet, ubuntu-fr
<sabdfl> wow. Hellloooo Houstonnnn!
* Schpenke == Shawn Shifflett
<sabdfl> always wanted to say that
<jjesse> Seveas: I'm back boss is done w/ me
<ogra> i lover this coulorful intro every meeting :)
* littlepaul waves to mvo
<mitsuhiko> ^^
<elmo> Seveas: no, he's here and announced himself
<sivang> sabdfl: lol
<Seveas> I just seemed to have missed him :)
<sabdfl> ok, down to the business at hand
<ivoks> :)
<Nafallo> ogra: :-)
<Seveas> First up: Dallas Team
<Schpenke> Hello.  I'm the contact for the Dallas Team.
<Seveas> Hi Schpenke, can you tell us more about th Dallasteam?
<sabdfl> hey Schpenke, tell us about your activity?
<Schpenke> The Dallas Team currently consists of a total of 4 members all of whom I work with professionally.
<sabdfl> are there local LUG's?
<Schpenke> We haven't yet contributed to any coding project, but we're very anxious to start spreading Ubuntu media at various local LUG meetings.
<Schpenke> Also, contributing time to helping maintain the Wiki is something we'll probably start doing shortly after this meeting.
<sabdfl> at UBZ it would be good to figure out how we can better support LoCo teams
<Yann2> UBZ?
<sabdfl> smurfix has got us off to a good start, but i think we need to ramp up loco team support
<dholbach> Yann2: UbuntuDownZero
<sabdfl> UbuntuBelowZero
<Treenaks> Yann2: UbuntuBelowZero
<sabdfl> conference in Montreal, Oct 29-Nov6
* dholbach pipes innocently
<sabdfl> with launchpad week the following week
<Schpenke> We have already set some time to speak with our local technology board.  Not technically a LUG, but not a bad place to start.
<Schpenke> That will be the 1st week in Oct.
<Yann2> sabdfl > we came up with the idea of a locoteam team at the locoteam meeting
<sivang> IIRC, there is already one BOF going to be dedicated to LocoTeams
<Yann2> but that's off topic yet
<Seveas> are you in contact with other US locoteams Schpenke  
<sabdfl> for example, we should have standard materials to help LoCo teams talk to the local councils, business forums, regulators, media
<Schpenke> No, unfortunately not.  This is the 1st contact I've had with any Ubuntu groups.
<Treenaks> sabdfl: cool idea!
<Schpenke> I am on the mailing list, though.
<Yann2> sabdfl > there was the idea of Conference packs?
<sabdfl> well, welcome aboard
<Seveas> Schpenke, ah, well, get in touch with other US based teams then, there are a few :)
<Schpenke> Thank you.
<sabdfl> Yann2: yes, we'll still do those
<Seveas> welcome on the Ubuntu ship
<sabdfl> i'm thinking of a LocoPack
<mitsuhiko> sabdfl: this would be very cool :)
<Seveas> sabdfl, Yann2 I hate to interrupt but we have lots to do, can we please follow the agenda
<sabdfl> ok. welcome aboard Schpenke
<Schpenke> Thanks all.
<sabdfl> PhilipineTeam?
<Seveas> jsgotangco is not here
<smurf> I don't think they'll be here today
<sabdfl> RomanianTeam?
<Seveas> RomanianTeam - dand 
<smurf> it's 3AM or so there
<dand> hi, we've presented ourselves about a month ago
<dand> I'm here for smurf :)
<Belutz> it's 3am in here too
* sven-tek_gaim wasn hier los
<Belutz> :(
<sabdfl> smurf: that's you
<zakame> apparently :(
<dand> if you want I can give you a small update, but mainly I'm here for getting official  :)
<Seveas> update would be nice
<sabdfl> dand: any new developments in the past month? do you guys have a virtual server?
<sabdfl> hey ian_brasil
<dand> sure, bojicas is working on a manual: see http://wiki.ubuntu.ro/
<ian_brasil> ola
<dand> we've also reached 100% localization with gnome and we're 25% into openoffice: http://codemonkey.ro/~dand/openoffice/status/
<ian_brasil> sabdfl:ola
<Seveas> dand, great!
<dand> we've got in touch with local magazines and more groups
<sabdfl> the localisation work is fantastic. well done dand
<Seveas> go poke the smurf then ;)
<dand> and we started a logo contest: http://www.ubuntu.ro/comunitate/sondaje/2005/logo/
<dand> :)
<zakame> sabdfl: can I speak for the PhilippineTeam?
<dand> thanks everyone
<smurf> *I* poked *him*, that's why they're here ;-)
<sabdfl> zakame: certainly, in good faith go ahead
<dand> the next challenge is having a great coverage of breezy in press and in LUGs
<dand> that's why a LoCoPack would really come in handy
<zakame> sabdfl: thanks!
* sabdfl makes a note to get breezy details to Locos in advance of release
<dand> that's all, I think
<dand> oh
<dand> we could use CD artwork
<sabdfl> thanks dand, awesome progress!
<sabdfl> cd artwork is done for breezy
<dand> since it could be an option to produce some of the CDs here (localized maybe)
<sabdfl> happy to publish that
<dand> great
<Seveas> sabdfl, please do
<sabdfl> dand: could you ping silbs tomorrow, UK time?
<sabdfl> she has the artwork
<Seveas> put it on the fridge as a D-I-Y breezy-cd-kit :)
<dand> sabdfl: ok I'll send an email
<sabdfl> i'll approve publishing it, so people can D-I-Y official-looking CD's
<sabdfl> to beat the shipit rush
<sabdfl> dand: jane.silber@ubuntu.com
<sabdfl> copy in this discussion for context
<dand> sabdfl: thanks
<sabdfl> thank you!
<sabdfl> zakame: rock on
<zakame> sabdfl: thank you
<sabdfl> ps dand: nice logos!
<zakame> in good faith, I can tell you that we worked (and are still working) on localization
<dand> sabdfl: Romanian users are very creative apparenly :)
<sabdfl> zakame: how many languages are spoken in the philippines?
<sabdfl> ping?
<mitsuhiko> sabdfl: he's counting ^^
<sturmkind> hm must by very much ^^
<sabdfl> is my bandwidth dead again?
<zakame> sabdfl: there are many
<thesaltydog> a long list...
<sabdfl> ok
<zakame> mitsuhiko: indeed
<sabdfl> which languages are you focusing on for localisation?
<zakame> sabdfl: we are working mainly towards l10n to Filipino/Tagalog
<zakame> sabdfl: in the launchpad we're almost done with aboutubuntu, and I think the next is the faqguide
<Seveas> great, docs should go first!
<sabdfl> super
<sabdfl> thank you zakame
<sabdfl> it must be late over there
* sivang notes it's a major progress having the docs translatable through launchpad.
<zakame> yes, around 4 am PHT
<sabdfl> thanks for coming
<sabdfl> and good work!
* Seveas agrees with sivang, launchpad rocks at times when it's fast
<sabdfl> do we have anyone fomr the KurdishTeam?
<zakame> sivang: indeed, it is convenient and elegant
<zakame> sabdfl: salamat! =)
<smurf> ErdalRonahi: ?
<markuman> there are ~70 different languages on the philipines : wikipedia.org
<Seveas> seems not to be here
<mitsuhiko> markuman: omg. that's much
<smurf> OK, next time
<zakame> markuman: yes, that's why we're first concentrating on Tagalog
<ogra> new memebers ?
<Seveas> vuntz, ?
<vuntz> yes
<vuntz> so, we were told to write a 3 line introduction. I hope long lines are okay ;-)
<vuntz> here's a quick list of contributions I made to Ubuntu: some bug triage and bug reports, general help on the mailing list, some help with laptop support (testing and adding features, at least for mine ;-)), help with mentoring a summer of code. I also do some advocacy for Ubuntu in conferences. My most important contribution is with GNOME since I'm a GNOME hacker and I help as much as I can fixing Ubuntu bugs in GNOME and implementing some features
<vuntz> , helping with the GNOME integration for Ubuntu and answering questions.
<vuntz> what I want to do for Ubuntu in the future : work in the desktop team, continuing GNOME integration in Ubuntu, trying to make bug days more attractive and effective, and general advocacy. I'm particularly interested in french speaking regions, and I think I'm starting to be a good advocate there (thanks to my GNOME-FR experience). Just starting, I'm not perfect yet, of course :-)
<vuntz> since I'm finishing my PhD thesis, I don't have as much time as I'd like so I probably won't be able to do all of this ;-)
<vuntz> that's three lines :-)
<sabdfl> wow, thank you!
<Seveas> vuntz, which SOC project?
* sivang high fives vuntz :)
<sabdfl> for the contribution, and also writing it up so comprehensively
<vuntz> Manu Cornet's one
<rejden> i have few lines too
<Seveas> which one is that =)
<ogra> vuntz, did you also plan some GDM work for dapper ?
<Seveas> rejden, wait your turn
<ogra> *didnt
<sabdfl> vuntz: which laptop? and did you help fix anything interesting for it?
<vuntz> Manu created the new "add to panel" dialog
<rejden> Seveas, sure, just mentioning it...
<Seveas> vuntz, ah rock!
<vuntz> (and he also added the RootRequired for menus)
<dholbach> DesktopTeam! :)
<vuntz> ogra: not sure I'll have time for GDM for dapper
<vuntz> sabdfl: asus M6Ne
<ogra> sad
<Seveas> vuntz, are you a member of ubuntu-fr already? 
<Yann2> (never heard of him)
<vuntz> sabdfl: I made the hotkeys work and wrote some code that mjg59 probably used for the hotkeys that don't generate events
<vuntz> Seveas: no
<vuntz> I didn't have time to involve in ubuntu-fr yet
<vuntz> but I'd like to
<sivang> vuntz also gave feedback for launchpad integration, and found a couple of peculiarities there :)
<Yann2> vuntz > there's lot to do, just pm me when you got time ;)
<vuntz> Yann2: this is in my TODO list, especially for advocacy ;-)
<ogra> and vuntz is quite active o the -devel list :)
<sabdfl> TheFridge looks yummy...
<Kamion> I've been impressed with vuntz's continued contribution to Ubuntu, helping us out with GNOME
* Seveas too
<ogra> sabdfl, have you submitted a pic of you fridge already ?
<sivang> sabdfl: yeah :) real nice to have something like that finally
<Kamion> more than happy to ack him for membership
<sabdfl> well, +1 from me for vuntz on membership, on the basis of strong and consistent presence
<Seveas> 2 down :)
<sabdfl> especially bug days and advocacy
<elmo> ack
<titus`> vuntz, you're a dev but not really involved in ubuntu-fr...
<Seveas> vuntz, congratz!
<ogra> yay vuntz 
<Seveas> welcome abord the ubuntu ship
<sabdfl> ogra: my fridge is well disguised
<dholbach> he was one of the first guys to hit #ubuntu-desktop :)
<ivoks> vuntz: yay
<ogra> vuntz, now on to MOTU !
<sabdfl> ok! next up?
<vuntz> titus`: not involved in ubuntu-fr, yes. But I'm a big advocate for GNOME-FR :-) and next goal is ubuntu-fr
<vuntz> thanks guys
<vuntz> ogra: well, this is a possible goal too ;-)
<ogra> yay
<Seveas> Next up: Schpenke (ShawnShifflett)
<Schpenke> I introduced myself briefly during my DallasTeam LoCo intro so I won't ramble.  I'm very much looking forward to contributing time towards some coding projects as well as helping maintain the Ubuntu Wiki.  My vision of Ubuntu's future closely resembles what I've seen here so far.  Cooperation between all Ubuntu members and users along with free, open lines of communication.  This is a fantastic culture and fantastic project
<Schpenke> Not quite as awesome as Vuntz, I'm afraid.  ;)
<sabdfl> Schpenke: what languages do you enjoy coding in?
<titus`> vuntz, on attend ta participation... comme celle de ploum 
<sabdfl> have you worked on any open source projects before?
<Schpenke> C, Perl, Python right now.
<sabdfl> and are there any aspects of the distro you are particularly keen to work on?
<Schpenke> I have, but nothing public.  Most of my work has been focus on my job.
<sabdfl> schnaaaake! *cough*
<ogra> lol
<Seveas> Schpenke, please note that membership is a sign of recognition of past work, I don't see any real contributions yet on your wiki... Can you elborate a bit more about what you have done?
<sabdfl> what does your day job entail?
<Schpenke> sabdfl: My day job is data security, code review, and hardening for our developers.
<Seveas> Schpenke, join the MOTU security team!
<Seveas> they need people :)
<Schpenke> Seveas: That would be something I would enjoy, no problem.
<\sh> yes...we need security people :)
<ivoks> army even :)
<sabdfl> ok.
<ogra> absolutely !
<Kamion> if you can stand doing code review in your spare time too :-), that would be a great contribution
<Schpenke> ;)  I'm a nerd by nature.  I review code to relax.
<dholbach> Schpenke: #ubuntu-motu and wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU might be something you want to look at :)
<Schpenke> Thanks dholbach.  I'll take a look.
<ogra> Schpenke, so join is to slack a bit ;) 
<sabdfl> Schpenke: as Seveas said, membership is in recognition of a real existing contribution, so while i think you are off to a good start (a Loco team is awesome) can I ask you to come back in a month to six weeks, to tell us about projects you've undertaken?
<Seveas> Schpenke, join that team, hack on for a month (if you survive) and then re-apply, everyone who can stand a month of MOTU deserves membership :)
<Schpenke> Heh.. slack works too,
<Schpenke> sabdfl: Sure, I can reapply.
<\sh> Seveas: *rotfl* don't scare them away
<sabdfl> the MOTU team would welcome your help, or progress on the Loco front
<thesaltydog> Seveas, that's really true!
<sabdfl> either would qualify you for membership
<ivoks> ah, we look so bad :/
<thesaltydog> ivoks, yes.
<Seveas> Schpenke, great to have you aboard, see you in a few meetings for your membership :)
<sabdfl> but we usually hold off until someone has shown a substantial contribution, on code, community, advocacy, bugs, translations... any area
<Schpenke> Ok.  I'll revisit again in a month or so.
<sabdfl> cool. stacy webb?
<ogra> next ?
<Seveas> didn't see that person yet...
<Seveas> (today I mean)
<Kamion> Schpenke: thanks!
<Schpenke> No worries, you're welcome.
<Belutz> hmm it's hard to become a member 
<ogra> Belutz, not really
<Seveas> ok, StacyWebb not here, thesaltydog you're up
<thesaltydog> here I am
<sabdfl> Belutz: not hard, just takes commitment
<thesaltydog> I am a member of the italian community, member of the italian Translation group in Rosetta and I support ubuntu-it mailing list and irc channel. I also have a deep activity in bug triaging and reporting either in Bugzilla and in Malone. REVU uploader.
<thesaltydog> I have coded two applications (currently in debian and ubuntu): Boot-Up Manager (bum) and Baobab.
<thesaltydog> Currently, I am also setting up the new community web site. Here is a demo page still on my server: http://ubuntu-it.homelinux.org
<thesaltydog> My vision: I aim to start importing Ubuntu into work-related worlds (offices, organizations, home work). I have realized that major obstacle to this process is the lack of correct information in those environments. They seems not to have an option: but Ubuntu is the right (and the better) option.
<thesaltydog> ...those were my few lines. As Seveas asked.
<sabdfl> thesaltydog: what's your real name?
<thesaltydog> Fabi oMarzocca
<thesaltydog> Fabio
<Kamion> thesaltydog: I remember we had some debates about branding a while back; did those all end up resolved to your satisfaction? Just want to make sure there's no bad blood there from the debates :-)
<Seveas> siretart, he uploads to REVU, any comments from you about quality?
<ogra> thesaltydog, why do you think its hard to survive at MOTU ?
<thesaltydog> Kamion, everything is fine.
<Kamion> thesaltydog: cool, glad to hear it
<sabdfl> vuntz: could you join the ubuntumembers team in LP please?
<thesaltydog> I have recently worked with several friends in MOTU, they can say.
<thesaltydog> ogra, I was joking. But it is an hard work.
<ogra> thesaltydog, thats true :)
<thesaltydog> I follow you all each day on #ubuntu-motu
<vuntz> sabdfl: I already applied, iirc
<dholbach> i reviewed two of his packages and worked with him on them
<ogra> thesaltydog is often around and helps if he can there
<sabdfl> vuntz: i don't see you in the list?
<Kamion> sabdfl: I approved him earlier
<sabdfl> ah, you're approved :-)
<Kamion> immediately after the conversation above
<sabdfl> vuntz: if you do the Code of Conduct dance, your email will be activated within a day or so
<sabdfl> it shows up automatically for elmo, iirc
<vuntz> sabdfl: Code of Conduct is already signed ;-)
<Kamion> dholbach: how did that work out?
<sabdfl> thesaltydog: how active is the local linux community in your area?
<dholbach> thesaltydog worked hard to get his packages/software up to scratch
<sabdfl> vuntz: ok, perfect!
<thesaltydog> sabdfl, we are re-arrangin forum, web and wiki. The community is growing so much
<dholbach> Kamion: we had quite some difficulties within the communication (motu team <-> fabio), but i daresay we're quite happy together now, are we fabio? :)
<sabdfl> thesaltydog: do you think it works well to have Loco web sites, wiki's, community forums etc?
<thesaltydog> dholbach, yep!
<sabdfl> can you suggest anything that we could do to help the Loco teams
<Kamion> dholbach: good, that sort of thing needs to be resolved before people start operating on their own
<thesaltydog> sabdfl, local communities needs to have a local common point, 
<thesaltydog> can be the web, the forum or the wiki..
<thesaltydog> It is important that
<sabdfl> ok
<thesaltydog> some of the locoteam members has strict contact
<Belutz> what if the loco team in my country is not active?
<thesaltydog> with the international community, to constantly report news and business
<sabdfl> thesaltydog: any comments on malone and rosetta yet?
<thesaltydog> I like malone more than bugzilla. It is much modern.
<thesaltydog> Some problem in the "search" functionality
<thesaltydog> Rosetta is very handy
<thesaltydog> If there is a vote to move bugzilla in malone, I will vote
<Seveas> thesaltydog, it will happen
<Seveas> (the move)
<sabdfl> thesaltydog: can i quote you on the malone vs bugzilla comment?
<sabdfl> ;-)
<thesaltydog> Suggestion: could we add a auto e-mail functionality in malone?
<Seveas> once malone is working as it should
<thesaltydog> sabdfl, of course
<Seveas> thesaltydog, it has, you can subscribe to bugs
<thesaltydog> Seveas, no I mean something that will add a Tag, or a bug by mail. Like Debian does.
<zakame> usertags
<Yann2> [Please let's move on :/] 
* ogra looks for malone on the agenda
<ogra> :)
<Seveas> OK, any opinions, votes from the CC on thesaltydog ?
<sabdfl> thesaltydog: you can file bugs by email
<sabdfl> it's just not well documented
<thesaltydog> on malone?
<sabdfl> yes
<sabdfl> Yann2: ok
<Kamion> so I'm ok with thesaltydog for membership; I'd like him to keep working with the other MOTUs and make sure they're happy that all communication issues are properly ironed out, but otherwise fine
<sabdfl> so, +1 from me for thesaltydog, for translations, and bug work
<thesaltydog> sabdfl, ok I will look for it. If there is a lack in malone, it is in the docs...:-)
<sabdfl> 2 out of 3
<Seveas> 2 down already, looking good :)
<sabdfl> elmo?
<elmo> ack
<thesaltydog> thank you very much, mates..
<Kamion> approved in lp
<sabdfl> err, ack +1?
<Seveas> Next: shawarma (Soren Hansen)
<shawarma> Hi!
<thesaltydog> sabdfl, I have already signed the CoC
<elmo> sabdfl: yes, ack = +1, nack = -1, dunno = 0
<sabdfl> gotcha
<shawarma> Well, I already applied a few months back, but I was told to reapply later, when I had made a substantial contribution... Seveas convinced me that was now, so here I am. :-)
<tseng> elmo: 0 = enq
<Seveas> shawarma, tell us about these contributions
<shawarma> My wiki page is pretty up to date, but I could give a really short version here?
<Kamion> oh, libmms, I knew your name was familiar
<Kamion> (yes, it's in main now)
<tseng> shawarma: please.
<shawarma> Well, I've been fixing a few bugs here and there on software that I use myself GNOME, Evolution, vpnc..
<shawarma> I help out on #ubuntu every once in a while.
<shawarma> I package stuff, that I find is missing.
<shawarma> I'm planning on arranging a huge install party at the university.
<sabdfl> what's libmms?
<Seveas> that's for listening to mms:// streams
<shawarma> The university actually recommends the students to run Linux, and I intend to be ready to hand out a boatload of CD's to the hungering masses, when they want to switch.
<sabdfl> mms?
<shawarma> sabdfl: multimedia streams.
<shawarma> sabdfl: A lot of online radiostations use it.
<sabdfl> rfc standard? ok, cool
<shawarma> sabdfl:No.
<shawarma> sabdfl: Proprietary shit, but nice to have.
<nalioth> sabdfl: microsoft multimedia streams
<shawarma> (hehe, I just said shit to the boss)
<sabdfl> but with an open source implementation
<shawarma> sabdfl: right.
<Seveas> and no patent issues I presume 
<sabdfl> shawarma: if you become a member, you get to say "fuck" too
<shawarma> sabdfl: LOL!
<sabdfl> ok, any comments from the MOTU?
<dholbach> i wonder what MOTUs say all day? :)
<Seveas> sabdfl, au contraire, members have to adhere to the CoC and forget the F word ;)
<ivoks> dholbach: fcking shut
<shawarma> Seveas: Well, IANAL, but other projects used the code before it was rolled into libmms, so I suppose they've reviewed the legal stuff.
<dholbach> shawarma: you worked together with slomo?
<shawarma> dholbach: Yup, on the libmms-thing, yes.
<Kamion> Seveas: pitti did a brief review and couldn't find anything, although I don't think he'd claim it was exhaustive
<dholbach> unfortunately slomo isn't here
<sabdfl> shawarma: best get elmo to review any licence on that front
<dholbach> but he was quite keen to get *mms* in and reviewed it
<shawarma> sabdfl: He's a lawyer?
<sabdfl> shawarma: better
<ogra> nearly :)
<ivoks> shawarma: lawyers are woosies for him
<sabdfl> he eats lawyers for breakfast
<shawarma> cool. He eats them for snacks?
<shawarma> Oh, well. I'll talk to him. Noproblem.
<sabdfl> so, +1 from me on the basis of packaging
<sabdfl> Kamion, elmo?
<shawarma> Coolness.
<elmo> ack
<Kamion> yeah, I'm fine with shawarma for code written so far and for bug work; he seems to have thrown himself into code in the three months he's been using Ubuntu
<ogra> yup
<elmo> (++ for not using freakin cdbs :P)
<Kamion> heh
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> he was remarkable in -motu
<shawarma> elmo: :-D
<Nafallo> :-)
<Seveas> so, 4 points for shawarma 
<shawarma> Wow. A perfect score.
<Seveas> congratz, welcome aboard!
<dholbach> congratulations shawarma :)
<shawarma> that's a first. For me.
<ogra> Seveas, 4 of 3 possible ? 
<shawarma> elmo gave me two.. :-)
<Seveas> ZakElep -- zakame 
<Seveas> you're up
<ogra> congrats shawarma, nice to have you aboard :)
<shawarma> ogra: Thanks! And thank you all for the kind words!
<\sh> back to business, after saying good bye to my friends of tortellini gorgonzola
<Kamion> approved in LP
<ogra> shawarma, oh, for the cdbs stuff you can get one extra from me too ;)
<tseng> Kamion: would you mind approving me while you are there please?
<shawarma> ogra: Rock! 5 out of 3!
<tseng> Kamion: we can put it to a vote if youd like
<ogra> shawarma, even if i dont count for CC ;)
<Kamion> tseng: you don't seem to have applied, or I would
<shawarma> ogra: Can't hear you. I'm singing a happy-song.
<Seveas> zakame, ?
<ogra> lol
<Belutz> ogra, may i ask?
<tseng> hm i need to do something? nm i wont hold anyone up
<zakame> In a nutshell: I am primarily working on getting Ubuntu localized to Tagalog; I am also advocating the use of Ubuntu here in my locality---I have managed to install Hoary on one group of PCs for a school, with several more pending; I also support people in IRC and offline.
<zakame> I have prior experience in making packages for Debian (gtklp and ecb), and in light of this I plan to work on MOTU (actually, immediately after completing aboutubuntu).
<Kamion> tseng: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers, follow the "Join the team" link
<ogra> Belutz, ? 
<dholbach> zakame: nice to hear that :)
<Belutz> ogra, what if the locoteam in my country (Indonesia) is not active?
<\sh> zakame: you're welcome :) come along and help us :)
<Seveas> more MOTU-ness :)
<zakame> dholbach: thanks =)
<ogra> Belutz, thats a smurf question...
<sabdfl> human, huh
<Belutz> ogra, ok :)
<Seveas> zakame, how long have you been working on translation?
<jdong> alright folks, I gotta run
<jdong> might be back later...
<sabdfl> https://launchpad.net/people/zakame/+translations
<zakame> Seveas: actually, only two weeks... however, I still have a backlog of translated strings for several packages in launchpad that I can't seem to get applied
<sabdfl> cheers jdong. backports-r-us has left the building...
* ivoks whishes good night, good morning and a good day to all of you, i'm going to bed
<zakame> Seveas: somehow I get a 502 proxy error =(
<sabdfl> cheers ivoks
<Seveas> zakame, hmm
<sabdfl> zakame: consistently, on all of them?
<Kamion> sabdfl: seems a bit short
<sabdfl> zakame: if it always happens on the same strings, then please file a bug and assign to carlos
<backports-r-us> just to make mark happy :)
<backports-r-us> by
<Kamion> oh, right, if he can't get translations committed ...
<backports-r-us> backports-r-us has left the building :)
<ogra> backports-r-us, lol
<sabdfl> it's still quite small
<zakame> Seveas, sabdfl: yes
<Seveas> zakame, 2 weeks is a bit short, the 2 criteria are sustained and significant, two weeks does not qualify yet as significant
<sabdfl> a good start nonetheless. zakame, i think you'll need to keep at it and come back in month or so?
<Seveas> But keep up the good work and the CC will probably welcome you as a member in a few weeks
<zakame> sabdfl: sure :D
<Seveas> zakame, rock the MOTU! :)
<zakame> Seveas: indeed! :)
<Seveas> JonathanJesse, jjesse has the bad luck that half of the meetings are when he sleeps, and the others are while he's at work
<Seveas> this one is during work time again
<\sh> zakame: "few weeks" that's dapper time...come along, and beat bddebian :)
* zakame joins #-motu now to get started
<ogra> yay
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> so
<Seveas> he left 30 minutes ago
<Seveas> we're now at the hard part
<sabdfl> this is where we earn our keep :-)
<Seveas> yes
<elmo> got to go, bye
<Seveas> I hope you read the documents?
<sabdfl> can we take 5 minutes to read the documents from the teams?
<elmo> ;-P
<Seveas> elmo, cya!
<sabdfl> ;-p
<Seveas> :p
<Kamion> sabdfl: it takes a lot more than five minutes :(
<Seveas> sabdfl, I'm afraid it will take more time
<Yann2> what with the report of the locoteam meeting?
<sabdfl> ok, i haven't read them yet
<Seveas> ehm, oops
<Kamion> I spent a while reading over stuff earlier, and was left with a considerable impression of "big fight, one party's word against the other"
<Seveas> we're skipping an item
<Seveas> locoteammeeting is up first
<rejden> can i introduce candidate loco team?
<rejden> i wrote few lines already...
<Seveas> rejden, not right now, please come to the next meeting
<Yann2> we have some uncovered items from the last locoteammeeting
<Yann2> mostly about logistics around cd and conf packs shipping
<Yann2> and trademarks issues
<ogra> but no mako around...
<Seveas> Yann2, hmm, makos presence would be useful...
<Yann2> didn't achieve anything during the last two meetings as nobody from canonical was there
<Seveas> sabdfl, can you perhaps say anything about that, I'm also highly interested in locoteams-oredering-bulk-cds-and-get-them-quick
<smurf> silbs said she'd be at the next locomeeting
<rejden> Seveas, as you wish
<sabdfl> yes
<Seveas> lots of people here in NL are willing to come to a central point/pay for shipping to get them faster
<sabdfl> you should place a large-ish order in shipit
<sabdfl> and in the note, say it is for a loco team, and ask for it to be sent with a high priority
<Yann2> sabdfl > it would be about 20000 cds maybe.. 
<sabdfl> if it's a reasonable request and the loco team is active, that should be approved
<Yann2> okay, i'll do this.
<sabdfl> Yann2: that's very large, unlikely to be able to fulfill it without a very strong rationale
<sabdfl> that's USD 20k worth, or more
<Yann2> sabdfl > i don't think we'd make it for breezy anyway.
<sabdfl> Yann2: why so many?
<Yann2> maybe for breezy+1.
<Yann2> sabdfl > Trying to do distribution for LUGs and some small companies.
<Seveas> sabdfl, and the alleged conference packs, are these getting shape?
<Yann2> handle a large part of shipping in france, in fact ;)
<Yann2> maybe it will only be 10000... but it's going to be a huge number anyway
<Yann2> I wrote a mail @shipit, to discuss that...  :)
<vuntz> Yann2: just wondering... do you have enough place to stock all this? :-)
<Kamion> (like, a warehouse ...)
<Yann2> vuntz > vuntz, I think yes. we're in discussion with a cybercentre
<Yann2> and another company doing logistics
<Yann2> we might even get a small budget
<Yann2> and the company asking us for some logistics would even pay for logistics issues
<Yann2> so it might be possible, but i'm waiting for the "yes" of canonical before starting anything
<Yann2> everything should be prepared for breezy+1, we won't make it for breezy 
<Seveas> did sabdfls connection die again?
<sabdfl> Yann2: ok, if there is a good plan, and it involves rapid redistribution to local groups, then it's feasible
<Seveas> ah, :)
<sabdfl> sorry, i'm reading through the forums plot twists and turns
<Yann2> sabdfl > ok, thanks. I'll mail you in a few months when everything's ready.
<Yann2> sabdfl > the second point was about trademarks
<Seveas> sabdfl, I want to complicate that in a few minutes by adding the view of another, impartial, moderator
<Yann2> there already was a discussion on the locoteam mailing list
<Yann2> it's all about allowing locoteams to have an official status in their own country
<Yann2> which could give them more power and credibility, and own budget.
<smurf> not to mention tax reasons
<sabdfl> Yann2: what sort of official status?
<Yann2> not for profit organisation
<smurf> sabdfl: basically, found a local notfor-profit named "ubuntu-something"
<elmo> you guys realize how much work is involved in becoming a legal not-for-profit right?
<sabdfl> yes, that should be fine, and we can give permission for all necessary trademark usage etc
<Seveas> Yann2, on a sidenote: I for one am so glad you are persisting, even though the process is cumbersome. This hurdle will have to be taken someday and the dooner the better.
<vuntz> elmo: it's not that hard in France :-)
<Yann2> sabdfl > if that's fine, what's the way we should follow to achieve this?
<smurf> elmo: depending on the country -- not much in some
<Kamion> we'd be less comfortable (to say the least) about giving permission for companies to use the Ubuntu name
<\sh> elmo: yes
<Kamion> and people do need to ask for permission on a case-by-case basis, because we need to defend the trademark or we lose it
<Kamion> (at least I think that's true, sabdfl's call obviously)
<sabdfl> Kamion: +1
<vuntz> is the trademark valid in all countries? or only in some?
<Yann2> Kamion > of course. I also think Canonical should have the right to remove the trademark agreement at any time.
<Yann2> the same way it handles dns, in fact.
<thesaltydog> sabdfl, I am leaving. Thanks everybody!! Good night.
<sabdfl> night, thesaltydog
<\sh> cu thesaltydog 
* thesaltydog is not so young as ogra is...!
<ogra> night thesaltydog 
<ogra> haha
<ogra> thesaltydog, i'm getting there
<sabdfl> vuntz: most of europe, us, japan
<vuntz> okay
<smurf> we plan to discuss this more in the locoteam meeting next monday
<sabdfl> japan was funny, originally they came back to say we could not have the trademark because "ubuntu is well known as a form of free software"
<Kamion> http://www.inta.org/info/basics_treaties.html > discussion of treaties governing trademarks
<Yann2> smurf > I hope there'll be some people of canonical this time ;)
<dholbach> sabdfl: haha, brilliant
<sabdfl> Yann2: so, in short, we want loco teams to be as strong and vibrant and independent as possible
<sabdfl> and can give independent groups permission to use the name
<\sh> smurf: short notice on the date, so i can catch stkn for the trademark issue between the german society and gentoo...
<Yann2> sabdfl > so do we
<Yann2> sabdfl > great, how do we get one? :p
<Kamion> dholbach: c.f. Linux though, I'm told one does have to be quite careful to avoid the mark becoming generic
<sabdfl> to explore further, we'll need to work out the details with silbs, who coordinates trademark usage and policy
<Yann2> we'll discuss that further next monday :)
<sabdfl> ok, next monday
<Kamion> dholbach: and Japan were essentially saying "it's generic already" (although I think without fully understanding who was doing the asking)
<Seveas> so, on to the forums issue?
<sabdfl> yes
<ogra> Kamion, i have a washing powder box here thats calle linux :)
<Yann2> yep :) 
<ogra> *calle
* \sh likes tomboy ;)
<ogra> d
<Seveas> ok, let me add the 3rd view, of another impartial forum moderator
<sabdfl> the japan example shows why we have to be a little bit careful
<sabdfl> go ahead Seveas
* dholbach chuckles at Kamion :)
<ubuntugeek> lets get this resolved..
<jdodson> Seveas: impartiallity is not possible, though i am curious to hear who you offer:)
<sabdfl> jdodson: still, another viewpoint will help us all get better perspective
<Kamion> the two viewpoints I've seen so far are pretty much directly opposed
<jdodson> sabdfl: oh, i thought he meant something else, no worries.  sorry:)
<arzajac> First off, thank you for hearing our complaint.
<jdodson> arzajac: agreed.
<arzajac> None of the "one party's word against another" is really all that relevant. We can discuss them if you want but that is not our point.
<arzajac> Hopefully this can be done in two minutes.  We would like the CC to oversee the administration of the forums.   We do not think the three administrators who are in charge properly represent the spirit of Ubuntu.  That's it.
<arzajac> If someone from the CC (or a forum users' comittee) can be involved (and have a say) in how things are run (see the bottom of our complaint), we will be happy.  
<jdodson> arzajac: agreed.
<jdodson> so its all settled then:)
<Seveas> it basically boils down to: all people from both parties have the best intent for the users, however among the moderators there have been 'issues' in their private forum section. Ryan, John and Kassetra have more powers at the forum and tend to use this a bit too much at times. THey like to quickly go to private talks to solve conflicts. The others prefer open-ness much more and have problems with
<Seveas>  this closed-ness. There have been some strange actions, like moderator forum posts suddenly all being gone and people threatening to go unofficial (which even out of its contect is a serious threat). I am impartial about this and apart from the ever worsening forum <-> mailing list gateway the forums work fine the way they are. I just really frown upon people being kicked out because of disputes 
<Seveas> among moderators and see this as an abuse of power.
<Seveas> (The last lines "I am ... of power" are my own opinion, the rest is derived from a long talk with a moderator who wishes to stay anonymous)
<jdodson> I left because I was tired of fighting against people who did not appreciate community, or at least i interpreted thier actions as such.
<dataw0lf> I think that words it quite well.
<jdodson> Seveas: i agree with you.
<dataw0lf> I think that there's been a rush to view this as some sort of up-in-arms conflict or mutiny.
<Kamion> my main concern about arzajac's request is that none of the CC members (as far as I know) have any experience with running forums, and it's entirely possible that one of us jumping in with both feet would just make the situation worse
<Kamion> nor are any of us saints :-)
<jdodson> Kamion: I doubt you coudl do much worse.
<elmo> jdodson: well are things actually so bad?
<sabdfl> if anything, the forums are a bigger job than the mailing lists
<arzajac> Then how about a comittee of forum users who get to say what is right and what is wrong?
<jdodson> elmo: its why i quit.
<sabdfl> because they tend to create linkerlinked communities, whereas lists are very much thread and topic based
<elmo> jdodson: okay, but there are obvious personality conflicts involved for you.  is it so bad _for the users_?
<Seveas> Kamion, the problem with most forums is that they are so easilyt accessible that they attract lots of abuse (not meaning this dispute here). This tends to overheaat moderators at times and break things.
<dataw0lf> elmo: I would say that it's been taken out of hand a bit.  
<jdodson> elmo: i was tired of getting talked to in all caps.  and constaintly reminded to step down if i didnt like the works.
<jdodson> elmo: for the users, no.
<sabdfl> i think we are partially just seeing normal growing pains - the forums have grown far faster than i ever imagined possible
<Seveas> I see this on IRC too, where I as very active op am personally attacked almost every day
<Kamion> I'm OK with the CC being a kind of court of last resort (it makes sense with our role elsewhere), but we generally find it very difficult to adjudicate forums stuff because it seems to be practically a full-time job to maintain the sort of knowledge that's necessary to know what to do with personality conflicts
<jdodson> elmo: well at times things got heated, i could name times, sometimes they are quick to close the door on users or close threads, etc.
<smurf> arzajac: I don't think this is a conflict about "right" vs "wrong"
<Kamion> #ubuntu's kind of the same, although at least we have greppable logs there so things are marginally easier
<sabdfl> and the perception of the forums being somewhat separate ("it took a long time for the forums to become official") is, quite frankly, true
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: agree! almost 43,000 registered users. I think this has been taken out of context..
<dataw0lf> elmo: It _has_ had an effect on the overall user experience, yes, I believe so.
<Kamion> (but the volume's still enormous)
<arzajac> elmo,  the problem happens when a user gets edited or deleted and want to complain.  There is no objective body to say who is right.
<\sh> Seveas: which is quite normal in a growing channel/community...happens before ubuntu and will happen after ubuntu 
<Seveas> \sh, absolutely
<Seveas> I respect the work of ubuntugeek, azz, jdodson, jdong and all other forum admins, it's gotta be a hell of a job
<sabdfl> ok, can i make a few observations based on the texts provided?
<sabdfl> i also have some questions
<jdodson> fire away sabdfl.
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: please doo
<sabdfl> but it may be worth clearing up some misunderstandings from the perspective of canonical
<Yann2> if it's about if the forum should be run by the cc or by third parties, let's vote ;)
<sabdfl> this is in no particular order
<Kamion> Yann2: let's not get ahead of ourselves here
<sabdfl> first, i think its important that we recognise the very, very central role of the forums
<sabdfl> even though most of the devs themselves prefer lists, the forums are enormously important to the users
<sabdfl> and the users are important to the devs
<jdodson> sabdfl: agreed.
<sabdfl> so... we need to take some concrete steps to bring the forums "into the fold"
<sabdfl> i can't ask the devs to change their online work habits
<sabdfl> they tend to prefer irc and email because of mutt and xchat
<sabdfl> and we don't have web-based equivalents :-)
<jdodson> lynx?
<jdodson> :)
<Nafallo> hehe :-)
<sabdfl> but from a governance structure point of view, the forums should absolutely "fit" into the big picture
<sabdfl> not be a secondary or separate effort
<sabdfl> that said
<sabdfl> none of this would have happened without ubuntugeek
<Seveas> sabdfl, a good first step in this respect would be is forum admins would become members and are present at CC meetings
<ubuntugeek> :)
<sturmkind> that's right
<sabdfl> it's amazing to me the energy and commitment ryan has brought to the project
<sabdfl> so full credit and due
<Seveas> sabdfl, I respectfully disagree, Ubuntu forums would have happened anyway ;)
<Seveas> but ubuntugeeks work is awesome
<sabdfl> and one of the reasons ive been cautious in storming into the forums is because i don't want to take anything away from ryan's ownership of that traffic and community
<arzajac> but should he decide what is to be edited?
<sabdfl> i say "ryan's ownership" because, while nobody owns a community, ryan has really shaped and invested time and money into it
<arzajac> I agree that he works really hard at keeping the forums up
<sabdfl> arzajac: i'll get to the editing bit :-)
<dataw0lf> I thought Ryan did own the forums?
<jdodson> he does.
<dataw0lf> I mean, he does pay for the server, correct?
<Seveas> yes
<dataw0lf> So.  He owns it.
<sabdfl> dataw0lf: i'll get to that too
<dataw0lf> sabdfl: Roger.
<sabdfl> so
<sabdfl> if the forums are 100% part of ubuntu, then the governance structure should embrace the forums
<sabdfl> that means (a) code of conduct, and (b) community council
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: agreed..
<sabdfl> so i'm really glad to see that this discussion has landed here tonight / today / this morning
<sabdfl> and i'm really glad that the editing / privacy debate was couched in terms of code of conduct
<sabdfl> i agree that the current code of conduct is not sufficiently detailed in the field of forums
<sabdfl> and i would like to see some follow through on the idea of a detailed "forums code of conduct" as a statement that is like a contextualisation of the CoC for forums
<sabdfl> that could deal with:
<sabdfl>  - forums-sepcific etiquette
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: true on that fact.. I suggest we take the guidelines on the forums and incorporate them into the COC..
<sabdfl>  - dispute resolution procedures
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: we may well need to rev the CoC
<nybble> heh, because of the forums I started using ubuntu *shuts up now*
<sabdfl> but i do prefer to keep the CoC medium-neutral
<sabdfl> and have secondary documents that lay down guidelines for different mediums
<sabdfl> because they really are different
<dataw0lf> understandable
<Kamion> the hard question for me seems to be: what happens if (when) there's somebody on the forums who is consistently violating the code? who enforces it? this meeting was called partially because of a disagreement over who's in charge, effectively, which seems to cut towards that
<sabdfl> so, i think the forums are too big for their to be just one person
<dataw0lf> Kamion: Yes.  Despite Ryan 'owning' the forums, if the forums are a part of Ubuntu Linux, I think that needs to be resolved.
<Seveas> maybe the CC members can get access to the moderator-only part of the forums?
<Kamion> and I definitely don't think every small dispute should be brought to the CC
<sabdfl> i would suggest that you create a "ubuntu forum council"
<Kamion> I would much rather we were a court of appeal
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: 100% agreed..
<jdodson> I think if the CC had access to the old mod area, people who be surprised.
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek should have a casting vote on there, much as i have one on the CC
<sabdfl> but that council would be ultimately accountable to this one
<Kamion> court of appeal> because, as I said, we don't have the direct hands-on experience, and to be perfectly honest many of us don't have the time
<sabdfl> so there would be an appeal process
<arzajac> jdodson:  you mean the archives.
<Kamion> (to be involved in everything)
<jdodson> yeah, sorry.
<sabdfl> now, on the editing thing
<sabdfl> i would strongly urge you to make everything permanent
<sabdfl> keep things on the record
<sabdfl> we don't have a members-only private list
<jdodson> sabdfl: amen.
<arzajac> As for the editing, well that would be a matter for the forums council.
<Seveas> sabdfl, a moderator-only forum is very common though on forums
<sabdfl> and it's never happened that the CC has discussed something as a group but off the record
<nybble> as op'ing a few communities in the past, the best bet _is_ to keep everything public
<arzajac> Let the users decide what is "right" and what ir "wrong"
<sabdfl> of course, we do have private person-to-person conversations
<ubuntugeek> seveas: yes agreed this is needed.. we need to keep in mind this is a different beast then the mailing lists etc..
<dataw0lf> I think that a moderator only forum probably is needed.
<sabdfl> the only reason to remove something is the nuclear launch codes
<Kamion> I found the comment about old archives of moderator discussions being deleted a bit disturbing; can the admins address that?
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, but the contents and archives of this should be available to the CC
<dataw0lf> but the CC needs access to it at all times, as does the forum council.
<sabdfl> dataw0lf: i would still make it public read-only
<Kamion> (I don't think I saw it in the admins' response, but if I missed it, my apologies)
<jdodson> sabdfl: good idea.
<Seveas> Kamion, yes, they have been deleted or at least been made inaccessible, and it's imho indeed distrurbing
<sabdfl> if the guys need to discuss something privately, they have email and irc
<sabdfl> treat the forums as a place of record, keep it public
<arzajac> +1
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: I dont think the mud in the archives needs to be made public. It will only hurt more peoples feelings.
<sabdfl> and don't delete something just because you disagree with it
<sabdfl> that undermines the community trust
<jdodson> Seveas: there were many things in the old moderator area that look very bad to the adminstrators. 
<arzajac> "Hurt people's feelings"  Not true.
<dataw0lf> sabdfl: Definitely agreed, which is one of the major problems with the current situation.
<smurf> ubuntugeek: the fact that there's mud in the archives is in itself part of the problem
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: i understand that a pointed jab hurts, but it also fades quickly into the distance
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, at least make it accessible to the CC to support either of the parties' arguments
<Kamion> ubuntugeek: the problem is that when a dispute is brought to a body such as this, it is very difficult to deal with relevant history being deleted
<sabdfl> there are a couple of very old emails of mine that google digs up that make me blush too
<sabdfl> like... "how do you make a certificate?"?
<Seveas> roflol :D
<dataw0lf> hehe
<Kamion> I don't have an opinion on full publicness or not, but they do need to be available as "evidence"
<arzajac> We would like to see them too...
<jdodson> :)
<nybble> lol
<Seveas> sabdfl, man openssl ;)
<arzajac> How would the forum council be implemented?
<\sh> sabdfl: 1994? ,-)
<sabdfl> if the forums are treated as public record (if necessary, there could be a moderators-only-posting forum that we can all read) then everyone knows that posting is serious and will lurk
<jdodson> sabdfl: agreed.
<sabdfl> arzajac: if ubuntugeek is happy then the cc could ask 3-5 guys to make up that council
<arzajac> Which guys?
<arzajac> or girls?
<Kamion> I have a horrible feeling about that ;)
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, just to be completely clear: are the old archives gone now or just offline?
<sabdfl> arzajac: not sure yet. 
<arzajac> post count?
<jdodson> Kamion: about what?
<sabdfl> we do need more girls in charge around here
<arzajac> +10
<ubuntugeek> sevas: offline archived
<dataw0lf> yum
<Kamion> in my experience of online communities, post count's a very dodgy way to pick people to run things
<dataw0lf> ubuntugeek: could you pull them all up for public viewing?
<nybble> sabdfl: agreed
<dataw0lf> Kamion: definitely agreed.
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, please don't throw them out yet, the CC might want to view them
<Kamion> jdodson: about the CC picking people to run a community we have no direct experience of
<ubuntugeek> they are "offline" in the old forum..
<arzajac> How about interested members apply to the CC?
<sabdfl> what would be a good way to get new members onto a forums council?
<jdodson> ubuntugeek: right, can you make them online?
<ubuntugeek> I would like to request that the members forming this complaint not be on this dispute team.
<Nafallo> sabdfl: I'll tell gothcat (my girlfriend) that ;-)
<sabdfl> with the CC, it';s a vote of all members to confirm my nomination
<sabdfl> with the TB, it's a vote of all devs
<jdodson> ubuntugeek: right, you fired two of us for a reason right?  
<nybble> Nafallo: :D
<dataw0lf> ubuntugeek: Well, I told you I'm completely done with the forums.
<dataw0lf> ubuntugeek: But I think in the others case you hold personal grudges against them, when they were some of your best team members.
<dataw0lf> *shrug*
<arzajac> i think it is more than just a disputes team...
<dataw0lf> and I think that would be evident with all of the archived moderator-only posts.
<sabdfl> who would be the appropriate group to vote on new forum council members?
<Simza> sabdfl : in charge of what? I'm drowning in responsibility here...
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, why not, from what I've seen, these persons are great contributors to the forums
<sabdfl> Simza: get kiddie wings
<arzajac> seveas:  thank you.
<macgyver2> sabdfl: why not the forum users?
<dataw0lf> Seveas: azz, panickedthumb, and jdodson were all great contributors. 
<Seveas> If the revamped mods-only part is made public-readable I think most objections will be gone
<sabdfl> macgyver2: would that be manageable?
<macgyver2> (coming from a forum user)
<arzajac> i still am
<Kamion> I'd like to see a fairly quick cycle of membership in a forum council, just because the community is huge and seems to be pretty fast-moving in itself
<Seveas> dataw0lf, so are ubuntugeek, jdong and kassetra
<dataw0lf> Seveas: ubuntugeek and jdong, yes.
<Kamion> that way, too, if there is a problem it doesn't last too long
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: one really difficult thing with managing a project like this is that you have strong-minded cats
<dataw0lf> Seveas: But, they weren't fired, so that seems irrelevant.
<sabdfl> there will always be disagreements
<\sh> sabdfl: search around the group of well known ppl who are quite busy on the forums...
<ubuntugeek> seveas: I have no problem forming a dispute team that comprises of people other then these 4. I do agree this committe should be present at the CC meetings to discuss issues.
<smurf> ubuntugeek: I do think you need some balance in that group -- problems like this can't get solved by a council that's all of the same opinion on problems that have multiple legitimate solutions
<sabdfl> letting some of them live on as (humorous) disagreements is sometimes the only way to build out your team
<jdodson> sabdfl: ubuntugeek wanted to prune the ones that disagreed openly.  
<sabdfl> as smurf said, that diversity is your friend
<ubuntugeek> I would also like to point out that I have requested someone from canonical be on the forums at least 3 times in the past.
<Kamion> ubuntugeek: I think the main problem is that we're all flat-out with work :(
<sabdfl> disagreeing openly is something us (b)dfl's don't handle easily
<Simza> aren't there several Canonical people there?
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, as has been said today, they have no experience with that
<Kamion> I drop in once in a blue moon, but nowhere near enough ...
<sabdfl> Simza: there are, but contrary to rumour and myth we're only human
<arzajac> You do?
<Kamion> and I can hardly keep up with ubuntu-{users,devel} as it is
<ubuntugeek> Ok so on to resolution, we need to end this..
<sabdfl> i follow links in. and out.
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: theres some more
<sabdfl> there's a suggestion that canonical and the foundation don't support the forums
<sabdfl> in fact, canonical offered to match donations and ended up contributing to the server fund
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: i would disagree based on your contribution a few months back
<dataw0lf> Ack, Tru64 servers going down, I must bow out of the conversation now :)  Everyone take care, and I hope for the best for the forums, as always.
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: ?
<Kamion> sabdfl: he's disagreeing with "don't support the forums"
<Kamion> IRC lag strikes again :)
<sabdfl> and i'm more than willing to offer to host  the forum storage and bandwidth
<sabdfl> (22:58:31) sabdfl: in fact, canonical offered to match donations and ended up contributing to the server fund
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: canonical has supported the forums based on the $900 donation a few months back. This is noted on our about page on the forums.
<elmo> ubuntugeek: we also offered to match any future donations in a similar way
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: I am not sure were that rumor is coming from..
<sabdfl> ok, i just read comments in the thread about the foundation announcement, that suggested that moderators / admins believed that canonical made no support and funds available to the forums
<sabdfl> the only reason we did not offer to host them previously is because i did not want to undermine ryan
<sabdfl> on the same lines, integrated login across wiki and forums is doable
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: I was not part of that conversation although I have read it. I would like to note public, canonical has donated to us and helped us.
<sabdfl> quite easily
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: I have been trying to get ahold of spiv on that he doesnt reply.
<sabdfl> and has been spec'd and can be implemented quickly
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: does PHP do XML-RPC?
<arzajac> Can other forums interface in the same way? (kubuntuforums.net?)
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: the forums has a plugin system which we might be able to integrate with..
<\sh> sabdfl: it has a xmlrpc library
<ubuntugeek> arzajac: please stay on topic
<\sh> sabdfl: and sometimes a pain that is...vulnerable
<sabdfl> arzajac: yes
* jdodson watches ubuntgeek crack the whip.
<sabdfl> there is a very simple xmlrpc api to integrate with launchpad
<sabdfl> moin has it
<sabdfl> we have a python implementation
<Kamion> ubuntugeek: was a legitimate enough question in the context I think
<sabdfl> just need to do it in php
* Seveas volunteers if needed
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: any php programmers out there pelase let me know
<\sh> sabdfl: AuthServer?
<sabdfl> all *ubuntu*.* should use it, imo
<jdodson> ubuntgeek: me.
<sabdfl> \sh: yes
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-25
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 26 Sep 15:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 12:00: Community Council
<poningru> bwhahahah http://www.flickr.com/photos/mke1138/250957668/
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 17:00 UTC: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 26 Sep 16:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 13:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu
<Hobbsee> @time sydney
<Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: September 25 2006, 23:27:12 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 1 day
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 27 Sep 06:00: Technical Board | 28 Sep 06:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Sep 02:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 04 Oct 03:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu
<DBO> @schedule detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 26 Sep 16:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 13:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu
<Toadstool> @schedule san diego
<Toadstool> ...
<rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 26 Sep 17:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 17:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 13:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 09:00: Edubuntu
<Laifen> Bonjour  tous
<poningru> anyone know what the motu email is?
<dholbach> ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
<poningru> thanks
<dholbach> universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com are our bugs
<Laifen> Bonne nuit  tous
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-b *!*@unaffiliated/neoxan]  by ChanServ
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-26
<Laifen> Bonjour
<rodarvus> @now Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Sao_Paulo: September 26 2006, 10:09:27 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 6 hours 50 minutes
<Toadstool> @schedule Los_Angeles
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 26 Sep 13:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 13:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 10:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 05:00: Edubuntu
<sharms> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 26 Sep 15:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 12:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu
<nixternal> almost did a chicago sched until i seen ya already did it sharms ;)
<sharms> :)
<Laifen> re
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 26 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu
<cbx33> @schedule GMT
<cbx33> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 26 Sep 21:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 21:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 17:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 18:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 13:00: Edubuntu
<lguerra> Ubugtu calendar paris
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 26 Sep 16:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 13:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu
<Laifen> Bonne nuit  tous
<Laifen> A demain
<mc44_> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 26 2006, 19:48:51 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 11 minutes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 17:00 UTC: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Keybuk> $(appropriate greeting for your timezone)
<cbx33> heh
<mjg59> Evening
<Fujitsu> Hi Keybuk.
<bddebian> $(appropriate grumble)
<cbx33> hey bddebian 
<Fujitsu> Early morning here... I don't do 5:30am :S
<bddebian> Hi cbx33
<Keybuk> so let's get started
<cbx33> Fujitsu, yikes...Iget up at that time every day
<Keybuk> a few ubuntu-dev candidates today
<Fujitsu> Where a few == 3, I believe.
<Keybuk> q-funk, Fujitsu, cbx33 
<mdz> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<Keybuk> though it seems Martin isn't around
<zul> afternoon
<Keybuk> if anyone can ping him via other means, do so
<Keybuk> Fujitsu: that means you're up first;  please introduce yourself
<dholbach> q-funk is not on irc.gnome.org either
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> I'm William Grant, from Melbourne, Australia.
<Fujitsu> I've been hanging out with the MOTU for a few months now, and started helping out about 3 months ago.
<Fujitsu> In that time, I've handled a lot of syncs and merges, as well as a few new upstream versions, and some bugfixes.
<Fujitsu> In the future I'd like to mainly help LaserJock and co. with MOTU Science, and help with Debian collaboration.
<Fujitsu> Er, that's the end :P
<Keybuk> tell us about MOTU Science
<Keybuk> what kinds of thing is that aiming to bring to Ubuntu
<mdz> Fujitsu: who has been uploading your changes for you?
<Fujitsu> Well, there are already quite a few new science packages in Ubuntu that aren't yet in Debian.
<Fujitsu> mdz: Primarily crimsun, but Hobbsee, LaserJock, Gloubiboulga to start.
<Fujitsu> And MOTU Science aims to make Ubuntu a viable alternative for scientists
<dholbach> people from ubuntu-universe-sponsors know his mail address quite well - although crimsun is always quicker.
<Keybuk> crimsun can't be here today, but has mailed in his advocation for you
<bddebian> hmm
<Fujitsu> Goodo, Keybuk.
<Keybuk> how do you think Debian collaboration can be improved?
<bddebian> Boy, that's a loaded question ;-)
<Fujitsu> Well, I was talking with a Debian developer just yesterday, I hadn't spoken to him before.
<Fujitsu> He said that he didn't really like the automated Ubuntu patch submission, and that he'd generally handle patches only when a bug had been filed.
<Fujitsu> I think this needs to be worked on.
<Fujitsu> Because I believe a lot of DDs have the same attitude.
<Fujitsu> (although some obviously have a much more negative one)
<Keybuk> do you think DDs would be happy about adding a further 65,000 bugs to their BTS?
<Keybuk> how would they react to those that are clearly Ubuntu specific, or clearly duplicates?
<Fujitsu> I'm not quite sure, but I know most aren't happy to just have a big monolithic patch...
<Fujitsu> Keybuk, that's what needs to be figured out.
<Fujitsu> At the moment, MoM just sends everything.
<Fujitsu> Even if it's Ubuntu-specific, or a duplicate, whatever.
<Fujitsu> And some of the deltas are /gigantic/, and DDs are unlikely to work through those.
<Fujitsu> I'm not sure exactly the best way to go about improving collaboration, but it needs to be done.
<Keybuk> arguably the difficulty in sending useful patches back is a fault of Debian for having a fucking-stupid(tm) source package format and manager ... but I won't digress further :p
<Fujitsu> Maybe true.
<Fujitsu> For example, the guy I was talking to yesterday maintains 915resolution.
<Keybuk> as a MOTU, all the work you will be doing in universe increases this divergence from Debian
<Fujitsu> I know, yes.
<Keybuk> how will you balance this with your desire to improve collaboration?
<LaserJock> Keybuk: "all"?
<Keybuk> LaserJock: anything that's not a sync request
<Fujitsu> Divergence isn't mutually exclusive with collaboration.
<LaserJock> Keybuk: pushing patches back is part of MOTU work as well
<Fujitsu> I would, where feasible, submit appropriate bugs in the bug tracker for the package in Debian, if the fixes indeed applied to Debian too.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, exactly.
<ogra> LaserJock, ++
<Fujitsu> (just not a whole lot of people push them back)
<bddebian> Bite your tongue
<LaserJock> minimizing and maintaining divergence is the MOTUs work
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> mjg59, mdz : any questions?
<mdz> he'll brb
<Keybuk> oops
<cbx33> heh
<Fujitsu> Yes, oops :P
<mdz> LaserJock: what do you think is the most important area where Ubuntu needs improvement today, technically speaking?
<mjg59> LaserJock: How do you think we can encourage scientific users to use Ubuntu?
<bddebian> Tell him he can't get in unless he does azureus ;-)
<Fujitsu> Er, me, you mean?
<mjg59> (Oops - go with mdz first)
<mjg59> Erm
<mjg59> Yes, Fujitsu
<LaserJock> heh,  I'm not the one going for MOTU today ;-)
<mdz> Fujitsu: yes, sorry
<Fujitsu> Aha, good...
<ogra> LaserJock, say education :P
<LaserJock> ogra: of course ;-)
<ogra> *g*
<Fujitsu> Well, actually, I agree with ogra. There is an enormous lacking of educational Free software. gcompris is one thing, but there's an enormous void in the education sector.
<Fujitsu> But science is also lacking.
<mdz> Fujitsu: there is a lack of such software, or a lack of it in Ubuntu?
<Fujitsu> mdz, there is a lack of such software in the FOSS community in general.
<LaserJock> mdz: lack of good software with good licenses :/
<cbx33> Fujitsu, ++
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, exactly.
<Keybuk> how is that solvable by the MOTU?
<LaserJock> MOTU Science keeps track of 400+ packages
<mdz> Fujitsu: while we occasionally develop new software in-house, Ubuntu as a project is primarily about integration, bringing together the software which is available
<Fujitsu> Well, there are some things that are not yet packaged (in science moreso).
<Fujitsu> mdz, noted, but there is some more stuff we can package, especially in science.
<minghua> there is always chance to introduce some software unavailable in debian into ubuntu multiverse first
<pygi> minghua, multiverse??!
<pygi> why would you put free/open source stuff in multiverse?
* pygi stops now
<mdz> Fujitsu: that is what MOTU science is doing today, yes?
<LaserJock> because it isn't free
<minghua> pygi: yes, some scientific software has non-DFSG-free licenses
<Fujitsu> mdz, yes.
<Fujitsu> mdz, as well as maintaining well over 400 packages.
<minghua> pygi: and there are just no alternatives
<pygi> minghua, ah, then somebody should make sure alternatives are produced :)
<mdz> Fujitsu: that is a lot of packages. how do you keep track of them all?
<LaserJock> mdz: me ;-)
<mdz> there are only about 10 members of motuscience
<cbx33> heheh LaserJock's brain holds the key ;)
<Fujitsu> mdz, yeah, LaserJock does a lot, but I keep track of quite a number.
<Fujitsu> mdz, most of them aren't MOTUs.
<mdz> LaserJock: how do you track bugs for them?
<Fujitsu> mdz, the subscribed bugs page.
<mdz> I noticed that motuscience isn't a bug contact for any packages
<Fujitsu> mdz, yes we are...
<mdz> ah, never mind, wrong page
<LaserJock> for all 400+
<mdz> it's not a *maintainer* of any packages, but it is a bug contact
<Fujitsu> Otherwise it would just be impossible to manage :P
<Fujitsu> mdz, yes.
<LaserJock> I also maintain a list using lucas's scripts
<mdz> LaserJock: lucas's scripts?
<Fujitsu> MultiDistroTools.
<ogra> m-science is a very valuable source for information for edubuntu btw ...
<LaserJock> http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/all.html for instance
<minghua> yes, we track a lot of packages, and from what I see, motu-science is very responsive to bug reports
<minghua> and a lot of credits goes to Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> Yes, LaserJock's lists are incredibly useful, and make managing the large number of packages sane.
<LaserJock> but we need MOTUs in MOTU Science
<LaserJock> :-)
<Fujitsu> Thanks, minghua :)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, there are 3 at the moment, no?
<LaserJock> minghua, tritium, and myself
<LaserJock> although bddebian is an honorary member
* bddebian was feeling left out :-)
<mdz> LaserJock: it looks a bit like packages.qa.debian.org
<minghua> (and I am not active during edgy release, that should change for edgy+1)
<LaserJock> mdz:mhm
<LaserJock> mdz: I also track the difference between Ubuntu and Debian in terms of packages they don't have
<LaserJock> mdz: we tend to loose a lot of new Debian packages
<LaserJock> http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/ud_diff.html
<mdz> ok, thanks for satisfying my curiosity, though we're digressing a bit
<rodarvus> LaserJock: you really mean 'loose' or lose?
<mdz> anything further for Fujitsu?
<Keybuk> nothing from me
<Keybuk> mjg59: ?
<Fujitsu> Like, I went through the list of packages in Debian and not Ubuntu a couple of days ago, and there are 32 new ones, though 12 are in contrib/non-free.
<mjg59> I'm happy
<LaserJock> rodarvus: one of the 2 ;-)
<Keybuk> ok votes
<mdz> +1 from me
<mjg59> +1
<Keybuk> +1 from me, have seen a fair bit from Fujitsu 
<Keybuk> Fujitsu: congrats
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
<Fujitsu> Thanks :)
<dholbach> congratulations Fujitsu
<bddebian> w00t, congrats Fujitsu
<lfittl> congrats Fujitsu
<cbx33> congratulations Fujitsu 
<rodarvus> Fujitsu, congratulations!
<YukiCuss> \o/ Fujitsu
<ogra> congrats Fujitsu !
<mjg59> cbx33: Want a go?
<cbx33> mjg59, sure
* ogra cheers 
<cbx33> I'm Pete Savage, aka cbx33, I'm currently working as an IT manager at a school in Southampton UK.  I became an Ubuntu/Edubuntu Member about a month after helping out in the Edubuntu community.  Originally working on a few bug fixes and documentation.
<cbx33> Recently I have been working a lot more on developing applications and completing specifications.  I recently completed the Student Control Panel spec, as well as writing gisomount, and working on development of grasynco and gallium
<cbx33> I would love to get into more packaging, and hope to attend the UDS, where I can gain a better insight into the development process.  I would like to develop and package more educational applications for Edubuntu and would one day hope to become a core-dev.
* pygi cheers also :P
<mjg59> cbx33: So who have you been working with in Ubuntu so far?
* rodarvus cheers too
<cbx33> ogra, LaserJock, rodarvus, pygi 
<mdz> cbx33: are you the same pete savage who contributed the sound theme, or a different one?
<cbx33> many many people 
<cbx33> mdz, I am indeed
<ogra> cbx33, was the greatest edubuntu developer in the edgy cycle ... he started learning pythion and basic packaging at the beginnign of the cycle and actually finished student-control-panel and packaged it ...
<ogra> as well as his other stuff (gisomount etc)
<Keybuk> cbx33: who has been doing uploads for you so far?
<Keybuk> have you done many?
<cbx33> ogra, mainly
<pygi> cbx33 did a marvelous job really....
<cbx33> and LaserJock too
<ogra> it was very very impressing seeing him getting to speed so fast
<cbx33> Keybuk, total number of pacakges?
<cbx33> 4
<LaserJock> He was also my first proofreader *cough*victim*cough* for the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<ogra> (on a sidenote the new edubuntu artwork and the ubuntu sounds are also from him, done aside the development he did for us)
<rodarvus> cbx33 has contributed code, new packages, ideas for edubuntu, and is very helpful & interested, generally speaking
<pygi> rodarvus, don't forget sounds and artwork :)
<rodarvus> pygi, yes, that too
<mjg59> cbx33: So what would yo
<mjg59> Oops
<mdz> cbx33: is Ubuntu the first free software project you've been involved with?
<cbx33> mdz, I tried to get involved with Fedora at one point
<cbx33> but found the community to be rather eliteist
<cbx33> after using ubuntu for about 2months I decided to give the ubuntu community a try
<cbx33> as Edubuntu fitted in so well with my work
<cbx33> I also started try ing to create a distro, Devenix
<cbx33> which was goign to be an entire php development studio on a USB stick....bootable anwhere....
<cbx33> but this has taken a backseat as Ubuntu is so much fun to work on ;)
<mdz> cbx33: what made the Ubuntu community different?
<cbx33> (incidentlt Devenix started as a knoppix prototype but will now be Ubuntu)
<cbx33> mdz, primarily the attitude
<cbx33> you can get to speak to the "real" people developing things.....not just people using them
<cbx33> and people are very ready to help you out
<cbx33> I remember first going into the motu channel after wanting to find out more about creating a customized live CD, bddebian and dholbach were the first two people I spoke to in ther
<mdz> cbx33: what kind of difficulties did you have trying to do the same in fedora?
<mdz> was it harder to locate the right people?
<cbx33> for a start the activity was low, and the technical knowledge seemed lacking
<cbx33> people here either know the answer, can point you to the right doc....or ask you to write the doc when youre done ;)
<cbx33> and if people don;t know the answer they tell you
<cbx33> as opposed to just ignoring you
<cbx33> I don;t feel like a little fish here.....I feel like I actually contribute :D
<mjg59> cbx33: So you're planning on continuing in much the same way that you currently are?
<mdz> cbx33: in what way do you feel that joining MOTU will help you in your work?
<cbx33> mjg59, yes, but getting much more involed in pacakging
<mjg59> cbx33: Have you done much packaging so far?
<cbx33> hopefully helping LaserJock out more in MOTU science
<mjg59> Rather than simply working on existing packages?
<cbx33> mjg59, I have done a small amount of pacakging, but I hope people find my pacakges well presented and compelte
<ogra> mjg59, he did some from scratch and took over student-control-panel from me which i sponsor for him for main
<ogra> the quality was excellent, even the amount wasnt big yet 
<LaserJock> mjg59: I also helped him learn how to package with is own upstream product gisomount
<cbx33> LaserJock, ++
<LaserJock> mjg59: but I found I really didn't need to help him
<mjg59> Ok, sounds good
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> LaserJock, it was your great docs ;)
<mdz> Keybuk: anything further?
<Keybuk> nothing from me
<ogra> cbx33, btw a good comunity doesnt only consist of people helping you, its also a matter how you ask your questions ;)
<cbx33> ogra, noted
<ogra> its a two way thing ;)
<cbx33> of course ;)
<mdz> ok, votes
<mjg59> +1 based on testimony and impressive contributions so far
<mdz> +1, thanks for your contributions
<Keybuk> +1, I think in any circumstance where you haven't got skills so far, you know where and who to ask and how to help others learn after you
<pygi> congrats cbx33 :)
<rodarvus> cbx33, congratulations!
<cbx33> w00t....thank you everyone
* ogra hugs cbx33 
<dholbach> congratulations cbx33
<Fujitsu> Congratulations, cbx33!
<ogra> well deserved !
<bddebian> w00t go cbx33
* cbx33 hugs............everyone
<Keybuk> I don't believe q-funk has arrived
<mdz> cbx33: congratulations and welcome
<cbx33> thank you mdz 
<mjg59> Do we have any other business?
<Keybuk> and I'm not aware of any people pending ubuntu-core-dev membersjip
<mdz> we need to clear out the ubuntu-dev proposed members list
<Keybuk> what's the procedure for doing that?
<mdz> what's needed is to email each applicant and find out what their status is
<Keybuk> get dholbach to mail them?
<dholbach> I mailed each and everyone of them
<dholbach> (that had a public mail address)
<dholbach> and notified mdz of everyone of them mailing me back
<mdz> dholbach: so these are the ones who did not respond?
<dholbach> yes
<Keybuk> shall we decline them all, they will get a mail as a result
<mdz> dholbach: if you can confirm the dates when you mailed them, I'll expire the applications
<dholbach> I usually do it the day or the next day I work, but yeah - I can compile a list and double-check
<Keybuk> mdz: there's a mass-decline facility now
<LaserJock> heh
<Keybuk> we should do the same for core-dev
<mdz> dholbach: it would be good form to note the date of the mail in the message when they're declined; I wouldn't want to accidentally decline someone inapporpriately
<dholbach> ok, i'll mail you the list tomorrow
<mdz> dholbach: no big hurry, it can wait until after beta
<mdz> sometime before the next TB meeting
<dholbach> ok
<bddebian> Yeah, whack me :-)
<ogra> just dont wipe sbalneav, he just applied ;)
<sbalneav> :)
<mdz> ok, I think we're done
<mc44_> I just had a quick question; re: mozilla/debian trademark business, I gather some ubuntu people are talking to Mozilla about this, would it be possible for someone to send a mail to -devel about whats happening/or when a decision is made, to clarify the situation?
<mdz> mc44_: I have a dialog with Mike Connor at Mozilla on this issue
<mdz> that's all there is to say so far; if there's news, I'll mail -devel
<mc44_> mdz, great, thanks
<mdz> last email was yesterday
<mdz> ok, thanks everyone
<mdz> adjourned
<mc44_> mdz, yeah, i would have waited to ask but as it was TB today.. :)
<mdz> such a lively crowd tonight if I may say
<ogra> :)
<LaserJock> :-)
<ogra> compared to the last three meetings for sure 
<pygi> :-D
<Tonio_> Riddell: knetworkmanager tested and working, I'm responding to timo
<sabdfl> evening all
<Fujitsu> Hi sabdfl :)
<pygi> evening
<sabdfl> am i too late for the TB action?
<ajmitch> yes, it finished awhile ago
<sabdfl> ah. well, i was busily writing up sponsorships for UDS Mountain View :-)
<ajmitch> we'll know by monday, I take it? 
<sabdfl> in your case, sooner if you want
<Toadstool> that's so frustrating, for UDS Paris I was 400kms away from the summit but it was during my exams and now I am a few hundreds miles away from Moutain View but I'll be working :/
<bddebian> Toadstool: Me too :-(
<pygi> Toadstool, bddebian :'(
<Toadstool> (and I am supposed to be working now :p)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 17:00 UTC: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-27
<Hobbsee_> @now sydney
<Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: September 27 2006, 21:36:41 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 8 hours 23 minutes
<fabbione> @schedule Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 27 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<fabbione> hmm something is wrong
<fabbione> shouldn't the Devel meeting be the 28th?
<flint> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 27 2006, 11:45:54 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 8 hours 14 minutes
<Fujitsu> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 27 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 16:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 17:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<fabbione> hey flint !
<Fujitsu> fabbione, there.
<Fujitsu> fabbione, you're just in a silly timezone.
<fabbione> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
* Fujitsu ducks.
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 27 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 13:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 27 Sep 17:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 13:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 09:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sharms> @schedule Chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 27 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 12:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 17:00 UTC: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<lguerra> @calendar Bogota
<lfittl> @schedule vienna
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vienna: 27 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board
<lguerra> @schedule bogota
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Bogota: 27 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 12:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 15:00: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Sep 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 17:00 UTC: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<sbalneav> Present
<ogra> past
<sbalneav> Future ahoy!
<ogra> :)
<rodarvus> hi there
<ogra> so do we want to start ? 
<AliasVegas> Hi rodarvus
<cbx33> hey RichEd 
<RichEd> hello all
<RichEd> hey cbx33 :)
<willvdl> Hey cbx33
* Amaranth hides
<sbalneav> Is hedgemage going to be here?
<cbx33> I hope so
<rodarvus> hii AliasVegas!
<ajmitch> ooh, edubuntu
* ajmitch relurks
<cbx33> hehe
<rodarvus> (double "i" on "hii" accidental ;) )
<willvdl> Amaranth, you can't hide from us!
<cbx33> does it mean something different ?
<cbx33> :p
<willvdl> only if you have hiccups
<cbx33> willvdl, heheh
<ogra> sooo
<cbx33> beta ready?
<ogra> tech :
<ogra> beta still in testing ...
<ogra> i386 is golden ... apart from a bug that hangs the machine on reboots instead of restarting it properly
<Amaranth> heh, really "golden" :)
<cbx33> oh
<ogra> but that might also be my amd64 
<cbx33> ogra, want me to check it out in a VM?
<ogra> i have no real i386 around so i hope to get some more results on that bug from someone else
<cbx33> I can start the download now if you want?
<Amaranth> a vm is the worst place to test a potential hardware bug, it's too clean
<ogra> powerpc finally finished rsyncing ... i'll start testing after the meeting
<cbx33> Amaranth, true
<ogra> amd64 the same
<cbx33> I could possibly test on my lappie tomorrow
<ogra> but all in all its looking very good
<cbx33> excellent
<ogra> actually its the first release that achieves all goals i had set myself when i started with edubuntu
<lucasvo> hi
<ogra> it doesnt need to hide from k12ltsp ;)
<rodarvus> unless the bug is due to bootsplash (ie, not hardware related) it is hard to even get it on some/most i386
<AliasVegas> hi lucasvo
<ogra> it worked with the builds i tested with the -8 kernel 
<ogra> currently we are at -10
<ogra> so i suspect an acpi/kernel bug
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> would make sense
<rodarvus> s/hardware/kernel/ on my last sentence (thinko)
<Amaranth> -7 and -8 are the last versions that work for a lot of people on the forums, i wouldn't be surprised
<ogra> apart from that all autoconfig is working fine ... if you install on a machine with two network cards you have a running edubuntu ltsp server after 1h with no manual work involved
<Amaranth> ogra: hawt
<ogra> even my mother could install it ;)
<Amaranth> Why does it take an hour? :)
<ogra> including printing on clients, local devices, sound etc
<ogra> because the installer takes that long
<cbx33> because it's so awesome you sit in awe for 30 mins ;)
<Amaranth> daaamn
<Amaranth> I guess I'm spoiled by the ubuntu desktop cd
<ogra> 45mins for a usual ubuntu alternate install ... 10 mins for the ltsp setup 
<Amaranth> 20 minutes from boot to done :)
<pips1> hi all
<LaserJock> Amaranth: heh, it's like 2hr on my computer
<ogra> yes, the desktop CDs are way faster 
<RichEd> hi pips1 :) thanks for the mail earlier today ...
<cbx33> it was less than an hour on my new machine ;)
<ogra> i'll look into the possibility of using the liveCD in edgy+1
<Amaranth> edubuntu is really exciting  now :)
<ogra> there are some options you can use for nfs to make it work with unionfs ... 
<ogra> so it might move into the range of possibilities
<ollis> just wanted to say thanks to you guys; lab up an running in 2hours; great on old machines
<ogra> i.e. liveCD with running ltsp server ... 
<ogra> ollis, thats good news :)
<ogra> so all i can say ... test test test guys !
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/current/
<lucasvo> will do
<ogra> and note results here 
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current?action=show
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current indeed
<cbx33> ogra, will do
<ogra> thast all from the tech side for now ... next week we should start discussing the edgy+1 specs 
<ogra> especially the liveCDs need testing ... my isos are heavily otdated and i have bandwidth probs over here
<ogra> i have all install isos around now and wont go to sleep before i'm done with them all
<LaserJock> I think it's also worth mentioniing cbx33's MOTU ship
<cbx33> I'll try and test one tomorrow
<ogra> oh, right 
<ogra> cbx33 is a motu now ;)
<ogra> approved in yesterdays TB meeting 
<rodarvus> \o/
<cbx33> yup was touch and go fro a while
<ogra> cbx33, make sure thats mentioned in te meeting notes ;)
<cbx33> ok will do
<cbx33> I hope to have those done tomorrow this time round
<ogra> take your time ... testing isos is more important ;)
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> we'll release beta tomorrow during the day 
<cbx33> I'll download live now, well after 10pm and then test tomorrow morning
<LaserJock> ogra: any pressing non-LTSP issues that MOTU or core-dev wannabes can look at?
<ogra> thats the time every iso should have been installed at least once 
<ogra> heh
<ogra> someone could fix gnome-screensaver for me :)
<ogra> no, not really ... at least i'm not aware of any
<rodarvus> oh, I also have many bugs worth looking at! :D
<cbx33> what's up with it?
<rodarvus> if you're looking for fun
<ogra> do we have any bugs on the edubuntu-bugs team list ?
<rodarvus> not edubuntu bugs in my case, though
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra> cbx33, its giving me headaches :) i'll try to get rid of it in edgy+1
<cbx33> ah ok np
<ogra> i was always the screensaver/power-manager guy ...
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra> but both packages havent seen much love from my side this release ... simply because time was so short
<cbx33> C?
<ogra> and mdz wasnt happy about my bugcount last release already 
<ogra> if i cant cope with it i need to hand it over to someone
<ogra> power-management is a critical part  ... it deserves someone with some time for it
<cbx33> ogra, I'd offer to take that up
<willvdl> and is a dark art to my mind
<cbx33> but I know little about it at the moment
<ogra> (not that i suspect to have as much to do next release, since we have 6 months again)
<rodarvus> edgy was a bit hectic on this regard - the release cycle was even shorter than usual
<cbx33> ogra, that's true
<ogra> edgy was surely the release that got the biggest development bump in edzbuntu and ltsp yet
<rodarvus> and a huge flux of new features was expected
<cbx33> ogra, totally
<ogra> but it was also the shortest one we ever did
<cbx33> well if you guys want a hand with anything next releease instead of me looking for things to do
<rodarvus> (but its 'edgy' after all)
<cbx33> just shout
<ogra> cbx33, would be nice if we could get perfection into SCP ;)
<cbx33> ogra, it's on my To Do list
<ogra> to make it *the* preferred admin tool at some point
<cbx33> with 6 months I should have much more time
<ogra> yeah
<cbx33> w00t
<cbx33> and I'll start earlier
<ogra> and i expect to have some nice specs next release ...
<cbx33> ooooh
<ogra> more detailed than just "finish the carp"
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm excited about the edgy+1 specs
* cbx33 likes those specs
<cbx33> all laid out for you
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> it's gonna be fun
<cbx33> hope i get to UDS 
<ogra> but lest keep that for next release
<ogra> we'll likely know next week ...
<ogra> (who is coming etc)
<cbx33> yeh monday apparently
<cbx33> I overheard ajmitch and sabdfl talking yesterdya :p
<ogra> so that should give us some time to focus on the preparation
<rodarvus> will be nice to have this time in advance to prepare for UDS
<ogra> right
<rodarvus> I'll likely take the next two or three weeks preparing for UDS
<ogra> i will likely be travelling from end of oct already ...
<rodarvus> instead of the one or two days I had for UDS Paris :P
<cbx33> phew always on the go eh ogra 
<ogra> and it seems i wont get home for the whole november
<ogra> cbx33, yes, sadly :(
<Amaranth> monday?
<cbx33> ogra, :(
<Amaranth> woo, the suspense is already killing me :)
<ogra> it gets to much travelling for my taste ... but i cant help it ...
* Amaranth crosses fingers :)
<ogra> i'm invited by the skolelinux people to hold a talk and talk about collaboration on the weekend of oct 15th btw ...
<LaserJock> ogra's the Edubuntu super star
<ogra> RichEd, ^^^^
<cbx33> I'm hoping to pop up to the linux conf in london after UDS
<RichEd> great ...
<ogra> the have their development lab ~300km from me
<RichEd> that's the german branch ?
<rodarvus> Amaranth, did you apply for sponsorhip? (couldn't find your nick on the wiki page)
<LaserJock> ogra: is that debian jr. or debian edu?
<mjg59> cbx33: Which linux conf in London?
<Amaranth> rodarvus: yeah
<ogra> and wanted me last year already, but it clashed with release
<Amaranth> rodarvus: Travis Watkins, last one on the list
<rodarvus> ah!
<ogra> LaserJock, skolelinux
<cbx33> the big one
<ogra> the greman branch
<cbx33> 25-26ths isnt it?
<ogra> *german
<rodarvus> I expected to find an email with 'amaranth' on it :)
<Amaranth> hehe
<mjg59> cbx33: October - that's before UDS, isn't it?
<cbx33> oh yeh
<cbx33> of coruse
<cbx33> silly me
<cbx33> I keep getting these months mixed up
<sivang> cbx33: which linux conf in london ?
<LaserJock> ogra: but aren't don't they come from a CDD? maybe not
<mjg59> sivang: Linuxworldexpolala
<RichEd> good stuff ogra : we must nework with Knut to see if we can help with more / wider relationship
<RichEd> *network
<ogra> LaserJock, they are a CDD of debian-edu
<ogra> RichEd, right
<sivang> mjg59: ohh, I should have know then I would have prepare my vacation properly, but then gf would have killed me ;-)
<pips1> sorry, I missed the beginning of the meeting... when is beta release exactly ? (what time?) until when do we have to test the cds?
* sivang visited the UK for the previous 2 weeks.
<sbalneav> I can speak a bit to the handbook when the time comes.
<RichEd> ogra: I'll send you his recent mail .. he had a wish list for us
<cbx33> http://www.linuxworldexpo.co.uk/
<ogra> sivang, i know how that feels ... i get killed frequently here
<sivang> ogra: heh
<ogra> RichEd, great
<ogra> right, lets get back on track
<ogra> DOCUMENTATION !
<ogra> scottie 
<rodarvus> pips1, beta release is as soon as its finished. its well underway for a few days
<ogra> tell us about your plans :)
<rodarvus> (beta freeze is in place since last developers meeting, actually)
<ogra> pips1, we try to release tomorrow ...
<lucasvo> hi pips1 
<sbalneav> Well, about 3 weeks ago, I offered to HedgeMage to update/improve the LTSP section of the handbook.
<ogra> i cant tell any time 
<ogra> everybody listen to sbalneav :)
<cbx33> I'm listening
<pips1> hi lucasvo
<sbalneav> I asked jammcq, who offered to let us yank whatever was relevant from his 40+ pages of docs on ltsp.org
<ogra> sbalneav, did you go through whats already there ? 
<sbalneav> w/ attribution, of course.
<sbalneav> ogra: Yes, fixed up some of it.
<ogra> (on our side i mean)
<ogra> cool !
<sbalneav> I'm in the process of updating the stuff.  I've got the "Theory of operation" section 1/2 done, and when ogra gets a bit of time....
<sbalneav> I'll fully document all the lts.conf entries.
<ogra> sbalneav, you know that we have an offer from a german group that would like to translate and release a printed version (for bookstores) ?
<cbx33> sbalneav, if you need a proofer
<cbx33> just ask
<sbalneav> The ltsp section has tripled in size in the last 2 weeks.
<ogra> they are just waiting for my go 
<ogra> WOW !
* RichEd was impressed when Juliux sent an Amazon link with German Ubuntu books the other day
<sbalneav> I can easily add more.  Now that most of the code stuff is done, I'm planning on put about 2 hours/day work on it.
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> there is a bunch
<Amaranth> sbalneav: Rock!
<sbalneav> But that's only the ltsp section of the book, you'd have to ask hedgemage for progress on the rest.
<ogra> sbalneav, WOW ... not to say WOW !!!
<ogra> right
<ogra> we'll need docs for things like student-control-panel
<cbx33> ogra, I'm going to work on those
<ogra> and probably steal some parts from the ubuntu documentation
<ogra> for the general stuff
<rodarvus> how active is documentation on Ubuntu?
<LaserJock> the edubuntu section of the doc team repo is still pretty scarce
<LaserJock> I'd like to get stuff in there
<ogra> even i'd like to just use that ubuntu parts, we'll get space probs if we ship two big -doc packages
<pips1> what about documentation that goes onto the installer cds? (firefox greeting page? desktop help text (yelp)?)
<ogra> right, that needs updates 
<sbalneav> At the moment, we're working off of hedgemages svn repo, and when it's done, it'll all be submitted to the master bzr doco repo.
* sbalneav likes the sound of doco repo
<ogra> but for the ff age bumping the version number is enough worst case
<ogra> *page
<LaserJock> well, the doc team hasn't heard anything from Edubuntu for a while, it'd be nice to see a little activity there
<ogra> i can do that last day with the last CD build if we dont get anything better ...
<ogra> yes
<cbx33> willvdl, anything further on ESA?
<willvdl> not yet. I'm out of town on NEPAD stuff at the mo
<cbx33> ah ok
<RichEd> cbx33: I can give you some other supporting info ...
<cbx33> RichEd, that's fine....just I rmember you saying it was quite a tight deadline
<willvdl> I do think we need to look closely at what happens with larger edubuntu advocacy etc.
<cbx33> wondering when I will start having to put the hours in ;)
<willvdl> that's the spirit :)
<RichEd> ChrisK (Business Development) and Christina (MARketying) have promised some completed case studies this coming week. So the tempalte doc moves from a mock up to a reality.
* RichEd curse his late night error prone keyboard :P
<willvdl> RichEd, do they have a case study template?
<RichEd> So we will try to piggy back off their momentum.
<RichEd> The one ChrisK showed you ... I've forwarded it on to you now ?
<sbalneav> ogra: getting close to the end of the day for you.  Why don't I get a rough draft of the lts.conf doco together tonight, you can yelp the xml file tomorrow, and let me know what I'm either missing, or have mistakenly included.
<willvdl> okie. terminology error on my part
<ogra> me, yelp ???
<sbalneav> yeah, the help browser
<ogra> sbalneav, i'm doing a beta release tomorrow :)
<RichEd> We should have a real populated one from them and not just a template in the next week or so.
<sbalneav> ok, later in the week then :)
<ogra> we ca go through the lts.conf parameters after the meeting 
<ogra> *can
<sbalneav> Ah, k, if you've got the time.
<ogra> i can do ppc testing aside ...
<RichEd> I'll keep probing them for any actual print runs.
<willvdl> ok, that's good news.
<ogra> i only need this lappie for amd64 tests later this night
<willvdl> cbx33, with that we can get artwork going nicely in the print version
<ogra> but i have not much clue about the yelp xml format ...
<ogra> jsgotangco would be our man there
<ogra> or probably LaserJock 
<willvdl> and populate with info from what is there already
<cbx33> willvdl, yup
<sbalneav> no worries, we'll go it in irc.
<willvdl> will also have use cases by then, or at least a template mockup
<pips1> ogra: I got A) amd64, B) powerpc G5 and C) i386 hardware, what are the priorities for testing?
<ogra> pips1, two NICs would be good
<pips1> ok
<pips1> amd64 then
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuKnot3LTSPTesting has a list of things to test
<ogra> you can keep your dhcp server on the router running now ;)
<ogra> but attach the thin clients to the second NIC
<cbx33> ogra did you want to add to that page about the SCP bugs
<lucasvo> ogra: btw, what if one has 3 nics?
<pips1> \o/
<ogra> you get a selection menu
<lucasvo> nice
<ogra> (that needs some improvement though)
<lucasvo> I'll try to test tomorrow
<ogra> keep the names of the devices in mind from the first network page in the installer 
<ogra> it oly asks about ethX, no name attached ...
<lucasvo> it's kinda hard to determin which one is which. because they are the same model
<ogra> the first installer net page actually says ethX (broadcom blah)
<ogra> just keep in mind which you select in the first page ...
<ogra> it will only offer unused devices
<ogra> (in the second)
<ogra> so, are we done with docs ? 
<cbx33> sounds like it
* ogra still isnt sure if website counts as doc or community stuff
<willvdl> bit of both
<ogra> ok, lets keep it fr community then if someone has to say something about it
<cbx33> ok
<pips1> well, the current website is mostly doc, but the new website will be mostly community :)
<ogra> artwork ...
<RichEd> well there is technical documentation and information documentation ... maybe we should split the agenda point for future ?
<ogra> usplash suddenly needed a 640x480 theme ... 
<ogra> RichEd, makes sense
<ogra> so i just quickly scaled the 800x600 one we have ... which looks pretty awful
<mjg59> ogra: It's needed one for weeks...
<AliasVegas> i can get that done for you, when do you need it by?
<ogra> mjg59, no other theme even has the code for it 
<ogra> edubuntu is the only one yet
<ogra> AliasVegas, after bea 
<cbx33> w00t
<ogra> *beta
<AliasVegas> ok thats fine :)
<mjg59> ogra: The code has been that way since the beginning of August
<ogra> for beta the ugly one is fine for now
<cbx33> is the 640x480 default?
<ogra> mjg59, i looked into it when i cam back from detroit and didnt notice it before ...
<mjg59> ogra: *shrug*. 
<ogra> the code is in the edubuntu artwork package now, others know about it and can grab it
<mjg59> Since the move to svgalib, we've needed 640x480
<mjg59> The artwork team knows that
<ogra> right
<ogra> but the artwork packages are lacking some lines of code to handle/convert the pngs
<ogra> its not beta critical imho
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> there are still some weeks to move it in every other artwork package
<ogra> and since the artteam knows there should be artwork as well :)
<ogra> afaik it wasnt planned that this mode is used at all ... might be that this is the prob
<ogra> i have also some fixes pending to change edubuntu to te right cursor afetr beta and to fix some uglyness with the progressbar on thin clients (ltsp-client isnt respected as display manager yet, so the bar onyl is a thrd of its usual length)
<ogra> and the gdm theme screenshot in the gdmsetup review window is missing ... aslo post beta stuff 
<ogra> *preview
<ogra> oh, and apparently gnome themes support default wallpapers now, i'll make sure they are used in the desktop theme selector as well ...
<ogra> thats all from the tech side of artwork ...
<cbx33> ogra, which wallpaper are we using for default
<cbx33> the one on there was i thought the higher ed one
<ogra> anything from the artistic side ? 
<ogra> cbx33, the others are way to saturated ...
<cbx33> AliasVegas, has just popped out
<ogra> the higer edu one is the least intrusive ...
<cbx33> but she was keen to start to get together the team for edgy + 1 art
<cbx33> ogra, ok
<ogra> thats would be cool
<cbx33> we were very pushed this release
<ogra> we once had a big artteam in breezy ... 
<cbx33> albeit a short release anyway
<ogra> in fact most contributions were art back then 
<ogra> but somehw that died out over time 
<ogra> getting that reactivated would be a major thing
<cbx33> so please, if anyone is interested in art, let AliasVegas or join the eubuntu art...team.....do we have our own LP team?
<cbx33> ogra, totally
<ogra> yes
<ogra> i think she even leads it
<ogra> if not we should change that
<cbx33> I'll check that now
<AliasVegas> I'm really keen to get some people contributing to the artwork side of edgy +1
<ogra> AliasVegas, that would be soo cool
<cbx33> can we mail a LP group?
<LaserJock> AliasVegas: maybe you could come up with some specific tasks, etc.
<ogra> nope, i dont hink you can mail them
<willvdl> what kind of contributions are the most needy
<AliasVegas> we did have that this release..
<cbx33> willvdl, all !
<ogra> we need gdm theme, gnome splash, wallpapers
<AliasVegas> but there were too few people
<RichEd> AliasVegas: pips1 and I would also like some graphics help with web / portal / communityi
<ogra> the icons could be anhanced
<ogra> *en*
<RichEd> we need to get a sub-comunity group going  ... and recruit some people to help
<willvdl> ew, hate making icons :)
<cbx33> willvdl, me too
<ogra> ldm has a very low level theme (only plain colors and a logo)
<AliasVegas> RichEd what is required?
<ogra> well, if you make icons they should also fit into the theme ;)
<RichEd> ? there must be people with skills who would love to have their art work on a few 100,000 installs of Edubuntu s/w or web pages.
<willvdl> what are thoughts on leveraging ubuntu-artwork team as opposed to seperate edubuntu-art team?
<cbx33> willvdl, we did try mailing out to the artwork, but reponse was small
<RichEd> willvdl: there are some issues that are being thrashed out in a meeting soon around that
<ogra> willvdl, ubuntu-artwork is the ubuntu team as the xubuntu.artwork team works focused on xubuntu etc
<RichEd> it would be better to wait for ubuntu to get themselves sorted out ...
<willvdl> cool.
<ogra> willvdl, untl now every artteam has its focus and is vastly run by peope who also use the specific distro thesy desing for
<willvdl> keeps own identity clear
<willvdl> etc.
<cbx33> willvdl, ++
<ogra> i dont think that should change ... but thats my personal view
<cbx33> ogra, I agree totally
<willvdl> yeah, I see
<ogra> dunno what sabdfl is planning 
<willvdl> Well, I guess regardless of structure, folks will contribute to the product of their choice
<ogra> yep
<LaserJock> or all of them :-)
<cbx33> hehehe
<ogra> and if they do so they have to bear what they submitted one release ;)
<ogra> (if its selected)
<RichEd> As far as I know, there is also a brand identity pesdon who looks over all of the flavours ... so their is some cohesion.
<ogra> so the quality should better be good ;P
<cbx33> ogra, yes
<ogra> ok, thats all about art ? 
<cbx33> we'll get a bigger team for edgy + 1 I just know it
<ogra> right, we need to be a bit louder ... and draw some attention ;)
<Amaranth> is that it?
<RichEd> I'll do a bridge topic between art & community then ... and answer AliasVegas's question above
<RichEd> pips1 and I are working on a Community Site / Portal / User Space ... name still undecided. We're probably going to use Drupal and will need some help with colours and a site theme and a general look & feel.
<ogra> great .. take over :) i'll go installing :)
<RichEd> okay ... done ... g'luck
<Amaranth> hey, before people take off
<Amaranth> where should i send http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1551927&postcount=1 to?
<ogra> i'm not going away :)
<Amaranth> don't ignore it just because it's a forum link :)
* RichEd is in the chair ogra lurks but is not lost
<RichEd> The look & feel needs to fit nicely with all of the following:
<RichEd> ubuntu.com
<RichEd> edubuntu software
<ogra> Amaranth, silbs i guess ...
<RichEd> edubuntu.org - but this can evolve forwards
<willvdl> Amaranth, that is a bizarre post
<ogra> define edubuntu software 
<RichEd> The desktop ... LTS & Edgy & Edgy+1
<willvdl> ogra, colour schemes etc presumably
<ogra> like student-control-panel or the planned ltsp-manager app ? my plans were rather to debrand them for wider usage
<willvdl> icon styles
<ogra> well, we wont look violet like kubuntu does
<willvdl> ogra, are they not themeable?
<RichEd> Well this is just broad brushstroke stuff to raise the topic, but it will probably be an item for some debate ...
<ogra> willvdl, they are gnome apps and pick up the gnome theme 
<willvdl> exactly. not sure I understand what you mean by debranding?
<ogra> we use the gnome theme ubuntu uses currently ... but with a different colorset
<RichEd> The intended site / space must fit a user who runs Ebuntu and comes in for support / community but also an Education user of Ubuntu (Education Tech Services) person looking for the same sort of support.
<ogra> student-contol-panel has a header thats a png with the edubuntu logo in it
<cbx33> ogra, want me to remove that with my last patch?#
<willvdl> ah. gotcha
<ogra> i'm planning to drop that for a toolbar or a menubar later
<ogra> cbx33, no
<LaserJock> argg, I'm totally lost
<ogra> as long as we dont have something in replacement it will look odd
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> the ui needs s lot of love still i dont like the buttons etc ... we'll need to look into that in edgy+1
<RichEd> It needs to also be able to hive off from a landing page into a kids area look & feel ... young person support ...
<ogra> no
<ogra> it should work for all ages (remember its a tool for teaches)
<ogra> *teachers)
<RichEd> As well as a grey hair decision maker reading about Eduation Advocacy
<ogra> right
<RichEd> I'm talking about the user space ... with categories of areas for user types
<willvdl> but the option could be there for different solution spaces within the product
<RichEd> So we need a happy middle ground.
<ogra> exactly
<RichEd> we'll need to look into that in edgy+1 <- this is a good comment ...
<ogra> it must work for lower grades as well as for unis
<ogra> if that doesnt work we need an easy opportunity to change it
<RichEd> pips1 and I said we would like to design the look & feel to look like edgy+1 when it comes out
<ogra> and ship two or more themes
<willvdl> by default and then themes that can be applied at wim?
<cbx33> RichEd, sounds like you guys need to be on the artwork team
<ogra> yep
<RichEd> *don't forget I am talking user space*
<ogra> thats what we do currently already btw
<ogra> it could need improvement, but the base is there
<RichEd> if we can get the user spaces l&f for each category agreed by consensus for the web site ... it provides a way forward for the software
<willvdl> thought so. sorry, I'm losing the thread a bit :)
<LaserJock> is there a relatively straightforward way to switch themes?
<LaserJock> like young, school, uni themes
<RichEd> cbx33: yep ... we'd like to see if we can help rectruit to expand the art team
<LaserJock> are there tools out ther for that?
<pips1> LaserJock: do you mean a tool for switching the edubuntu desktop theme? 
<pips1> ?
<ogra> LaserJock, the theme selector in the desktop offers plain and default currently
<RichEd> with AliasVegas being the coordinator :) and having lost of sub-input / sub-designs sent to her for nice finishing & wrapping
<RichEd> *lots not lost
<ogra> default is a tad younger ... plain should be rather for unis
<LaserJock> ogra: that's at install?
<LaserJock> or after?
<AliasVegas> that sounds good
<ogra> LaserJock, the theme selector of GNOME
<RichEd> ogra & LaserJock : we should link the l&f theme swop to a dynamic menu swop for edgy+1 ?
<ogra> you can also run sudo dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork ...
<pips1> LaserJock: System > Preferences > Theme
<pips1> ?
<ogra> but thats rather for admins to reset the theme defaults
<LaserJock> well, but I'm thinking you should be able to select from 2-3 themes
<cbx33> peronsaly themes?
<LaserJock> that change wallpaper, icons, gtk, etc.
* pips1 is now confused too
<cbx33> personal themes
<LaserJock> no, I'm just saying, if I put an Edubuntu CD to show my profs they are going to laugh at the theme
<LaserJock> we need to have a better way of dealing with the huge age range
<pips1> ah
<LaserJock> and  doing so as early as we can
<pips1> are you talking about the live cd default theme?
<LaserJock> well, we don't really use the live cd much
<sbalneav> ogra: I have to head home for the day.  I'll go through the source tonight, and send a draft to you tomorrow.  Whenever you get done with the beta-ing, (i'll test tonight as well), let me know.
<LaserJock> but if I were a uni sysadmin and I wanted to set up a LTSP lab
<LaserJock> I'd be a little turned off by the default theming
<RichEd> pips1 and I are currently profiling the User & Stakeholder sets and will soon have a short list of the significant target audience categories
<LaserJock> now *I* know that there's more to Edubuntu and you can pretty easily change that stuff
<LaserJock> but somebody trying it out probably won't
<RichEd> we will create a space on the web area for each significant category of user and ask them more about what *they* want
<ogra> sbalneav, k, thanks  ... i'll surely have some idle hours waiting for new isos tomorrow
<RichEd> if we can then get the web area looking like a nice comfy fit for their needs, this can guide the themes / editions whatever we need to produce for the desktop
<willvdl> market survey as such?
<RichEd> yes ... community feedback ...
<RichEd> pips1 told me the other day that the Ubuntu artwork goes out for a selection through a drupal driven poll 
<willvdl> Melissa Draper did some work on surveys
<RichEd> So we can do the same thing in principle.
<willvdl> The ubuntu-marketing team has some raw data we could use
<RichEd> The background feeling is that we (as people with a techie bent) can only guess what the teacher / pupil / student wants ...
<pips1> what I told RichEd is that http://art.ubuntu.com/ allows uploaded art to be rated/voted on
<RichEd> If we want to get a better understanding, we need to ask the actual target audience, or else watch them debating with each other in end-user topic forums
<RichEd> If anyone is interested, you can see the initial list of stakeholders / users here:
<RichEd> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/education/planning/profiling
<ogra> pips1, i thought that was shot down 
<RichEd> Note that this is a work in progress ... it has a huge number of categories .. and some are of little or no signifcance at the moment.
<pips1> ogra: what do you mean by "that was shot down"? huh?
<ogra> the artteam asked for it
* pips1 is struggling to understand
<willvdl> but the main categories are quite good
<RichEd> We want to list all possible people who have an interest in Education and Ubuntu or Edubuntu ... and then decide how to lump them into manageable categories, and prioritise them for engagement in a community space.
<RichEd> 1st priority is people we can satisfy now, with existing edubuntu product.
<RichEd> 2nd priority is people we can satisfy now, with existing ubuntu product.
<RichEd> and then we will look at who else is a significant target sector, and relate against how much work is needed to get them happy
<ogra> pips1, the artteam asked that it should be shot down and replacesd with something different soe day
<ogra> *some
<RichEd> so, for example, if we added an easy way to change the "young scholar" look & feel to a "teenage student" look & feel, without much dev work, that would appear to be a good focus. Just an example for now.
<pips1> ogra:  ah, you mean 'art.ubuntu.com' should be replaced some day?
<LaserJock> RichEd: exactly, that's what I'm after
<ogra> pips1, nope, they asked for it to get shot down first ... *then* later they want a replacement ...
<RichEd> Any futher comments / questions ... anyone ?
<RichEd> Or else I will take it offline with LaserJock ... and we can wrap in here for tonight.
<willvdl> Drupal should be able to theme quite easily
<willvdl> not too sure about moin moin
<RichEd> Yep. Drupal is our first choice. We're hoping for an independent hosted box we can play on without restriction.
<RichEd> We need web, and forums, and blog options, all able to be created on the fly ... and with pips1 as the owner of editor author permission set.
<cbx33> I'm over and out guys
<AliasVegas> me too
<pips1> cu cbx33
<RichEd> okay ... if that's all ... going once ...
<AliasVegas> see you guys later
<willvdl> ciao
<RichEd> okay ... if that's all ... going twice ...
<pips1> bYE AliasVegas willvdl
<LaserJock> cya all
<RichEd> done. thanks all. 
<willvdl> woop
<pips1> thanks
<RichEd> pips1: thanks for the emails today. I am 80% done with the initial profile page, and will dig into them tomorrow
<pips1> ok
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-28
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Sep 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 17:00 UTC: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<nictuku> http://www.ubuntu.com/employment nice positions =] 
<Fujitsu> WOah, that's a lot.
<nictuku> yeah
* nictuku is interested in the PYDEV position :-)
<Linuturk> if I spoke french and lived in Canada, i'd apply for the junior support posistion
<poningru> @New York
<poningru> ...
<Fujitsu> @schedule New York
<poningru> Ubugtu: @New York
<Fujitsu> @schedule NewYork
<poningru> ah
<Fujitsu> Gr.
* poningru slaps Ubugtu 
<Fujitsu> it's saying unknown timezone.
<poningru> wake up
<poningru> oh
<poningru> @schedule Atlanta
<poningru> ...
<Fujitsu> poningru, what's the proper timezone name you're in?
<poningru> EDT
<poningru> well EST but EDT right now
<poningru> I mean I can do the conversions by myself
<poningru> but its the thought that counts
<poningru> @schedule edT
<Fujitsu> @schedule US/Eastern
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Eastern: 29 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 13:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu
<poningru> sweet thanks dude
<poningru> but kinda weird that not even NYC isnt in the list
<Fujitsu> Yeah, that is odd.
<Hobbsee|Remote> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 30 Sep 02:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 04 Oct 03:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Oct 06:00: Technical Board | 12 Oct 06:00: Edubuntu
<Hobbsee|Remote> @now syndey
<Hobbsee|Remote> @now sydney
<Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: September 28 2006, 15:42:44 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team in 1 day
<Laifen> Bonjour  tous :o)
<simira> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5388182.stm
<simira> anyone saw this?
<mjg59> Ha
<DBO> @schedule detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 29 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 13:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 29 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu
<Laifen> Bonne nuit  tous
<Laifen> A demain
<lfittl> @schedule Vienna
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vienna: 29 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu
<sharms> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 29 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 12:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 15:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-29
<Laifen> Bonjour  tous :o)
<Seveas> Laifen, could you please not do automated on-join messages in here
<Laifen> ?
<Fujitsu> Laifen, every time you join, you send a message to here.
<Laifen> and ?
<Seveas> which is annoying
<Seveas> so don't
<Laifen> Bon aprs midi  tous a++
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 29 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu
<gnomefreak> @schedule new_york
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 29 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 13:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu
<rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 29 Sep 13:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 09:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 17:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 17:00: Edubuntu
<DBO2> hey guys
<gnomefreak> good morning
<DBO2> im going to be using this name and IP, Im not at home or work
<DBO2> kinda stopped off at a friends to make this
<gnomefreak> ok
<DBO2> how many we got so far gnomefreak?
<gnomefreak> anyone here from the desktop-effects-team?
<gnomefreak> DBO2: i havent seen anyone
<DBO2> ok
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Oct 17:00 UTC: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<DBO2> hey Camus_SoNiCo =)
<Camus_SoNiCo> hey
<Camus_SoNiCo> :d
<Camus_SoNiCo> Hello, everybody
<Camus_SoNiCo> arrived onn time?
<DBO2> eh we are still waiting
<Camus_SoNiCo> great then
<DBO2> gnomefreak, has the meeting been pimped in -xgl?
<gnomefreak> i just said meeting in 15 minutes 15 minutes ago
<DBO2> ok, pimp it again =)
<gnomefreak> pimped
<gnomefreak> i cant find this persons issue :(
<stgraber> hi
<gnomefreak> hi stgraber 
* Hawkwind Waves
<gnomefreak> hi Hawkwind 
<Hawkwind> gnomefreak: Mornin :)
<gnomefreak> DBO2: give it a bit longer?
* Quinn_Storm pops in
<gnomefreak> hi iXce 
<iXce> hi
<gnomefreak> hi Quinn_Storm 
<gnomefreak> hi lupine_85 
<Quinn_Storm> hi
<lupine_85> hi :)
<DBO2> gnomefreak, I went a pimped some other channels =P
<gnomefreak> :)
* lupine_85 is never late
<gnomefreak> ok brb gonna run outside for a minute
<gnomefreak> lupine_85: your late
<gnomefreak> :)
<lupine_85> not according to my clock ;)
<lupine_85> 14:58
<lupine_85> erm, 16:58
<DBO2> yeah people still got some time
<stgraber> also :58 here :)
<lupine_85> ntp++
<Camus_SoNiCo> 12:58 here, GMT-3 :P
<Quinn_Storm> :52 here...I must have weird ntp servers
<lupine_85> BST here, I think... despite it being freezing september
<iXce> :59 here
<lupine_85> ooh the suspense
<Camus_SoNiCo> hehehheh
<DBO2> ok ladies and gents, shall we begin?  despite our team of atomic powered super men not being present
<Camus_SoNiCo> before we start, are the "results" of the current meeting gonna be placed somewhere? so anyone can read them
<DBO2> yes
<stgraber> There is a page in the wiki
<DBO2> this channel is logged
<gnomefreak> this channel is logged
<DBO2> i win
<gnomefreak> :)
<Camus_SoNiCo> ok, great
<givre> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ ;)
* gnomefreak is JOhn Vivirito
* Camus_SoNiCo is Camus SoNiCo :P
<DBO2> ok, first off, who all do we have here that is a member of the team that is NOT a beryl dev?
<gnomefreak> lol
<gnomefreak> yeah me
<DBO2> gnomefreak, I think we need to beat them...
<gnomefreak> is joel here?
<lupine_85> me :)
<stgraber> me :)
<Camus_SoNiCo> me too, but i'm willing to develop
<gnomefreak> rouben here?
<lupine_85> (well, I'm downloading beryl-plugins source right now)
<gnomefreak> henrickomma here?
<DBO2> Camus_SoNiCo, ok we will get to that
<Camus_SoNiCo> Ok
<gnomefreak> who is a beryl devel other than Quinn_Storm  and DBO2 
<DBO2> im not devel
<cyberorg> <- sort of
<gnomefreak> DBO2: your working on themes arnt you?
<DBO2> but the team thats here is iXce, Quinn_Storm and cyberorg is a packager
<gnomefreak> ah ok
<DBO2> iXce is perhaps one of the most important members of beryl (IMHO) next to Quinn_Storm 
<gnomefreak> ok other than dev. who here helps in #ubuntu-xgl (other than DBO2)
<DBO2> lupine_85 is a big help
<DBO2> hes there a lot
<lupine_85> am I?
<gnomefreak> we are in need of people helping in there
<gnomefreak> lupine_85: yes
<lupine_85> cor
<DBO2> lifeless, here for the desktop effects meeting?
<gnomefreak> it seems so
<DBO2> gnomefreak, ok lets get some structure going =)
<DBO2> First order of business is the wiki pages
<DBO2> those need an entire overhaul
<DBO2> beryl 0.1 has been pre-released
<DBO2> and the wiki needs to reflect that as well as how to install compiz-git
<gnomefreak> myself and DBO2  have been starting on them but we are gonna have alot of pages hopfully all linked but need people willing to help on them
<DBO2> I have some experience writing these walkthroughs
<gnomefreak> DBO2: is there a main beryl repo? other than amaroths?
<iXce> gnomefreak : official one :o)
<DBO2> so if there are no objections, I would like to head up the wiki project
<gnomefreak> iXce: there is?
<DBO2> gnomefreak, yes just today
<gnomefreak> ok good
<lupine_85> amaranth is closing his repo once the beryl official one gets up
<Quinn_Storm> the same repos that used to cover compiz-quinn
<gnomefreak> lets use that for the wikis than
<DBO2> yeah
<DBO2> we will also need a wiki for switching to beryl from compiz
<DBO2> which will be fairly easy
<gnomefreak> is this going to be in universe.multiverse at all for edgy or edgy+!?
<DBO2> thats the hope
<iXce> edgy+1 i think, it sounds pretty impossible to get it into edgy, but edgy would be great :)
<DBO2> I am hoping to work the MOTU on this
<gnomefreak> iXce: its pretty late for edgy
<lupine_85> are we going to have transitional packages for compiz-quinn -> beryl?
<gnomefreak> universe freeze started yesterday
<DBO2> and I know Quinn_Storm is going to Mountain View, which means that we have a good shot at it
<shawarma> gnomefreak: UVF was yesterday.
<cyberorg> I guess as beryl and compiz can coexist, beryl-manager can become common tool for switching to and from beryl
<Quinn_Storm> edgy+1 is a sensible goal, not edgy
<DBO2> for edgy+1 that is
<DBO2> cyberorg, I agree with that
<DBO2> Quinn_Storm, I know you dont want to
<DBO2> but it really is my opinion that beryl-manager should support compiz-git
<cyberorg> makes helping users easier - just tell them to use beryl manager
<Quinn_Storm> well if you guys want, we can work that in
<Quinn_Storm> but...it'll just be supported like any other WM is
<DBO2> thats fine
<Quinn_Storm> unless you guys want to take a crack at it
<cyberorg> thats all is needed
<gnomefreak> so to use compiz you install beryl-manager?
<cyberorg> i can look into it
<DBO2> gnomefreak, no its just an option
<gnomefreak> oh ok
<DBO2> and it adds consistancy to how they are launched
<gnomefreak> ok that sounds good than
<Quinn_Storm> yeah, beryl-manager is fairly extensible
<DBO2> makes walkthroughs easier too
<DBO2> ok so that covers with wiki and that segway
* lupine_85 would like a "start automatically" option in beryl-manager.. . rather than adding it to sessions manually
<gnomefreak> Quinn_Storm: are your repos gonna be used for compiz/xgl?
<Quinn_Storm> for now
<gnomefreak> lupine_85: how about a login option?
<Quinn_Storm> wait
<cyberorg> lupine_85: put that on bugtracker
<Quinn_Storm> compiz?
<Quinn_Storm> I guess if someone wants to compile compiz-git pkgs
<DBO2> Quinn_Storm, he wants to know if you will have compiz-git?
<DBO2> we can get a packager for that
<Quinn_Storm> well I won't personally handle it but yeah we can package it
<DBO2> would you be willing to add it in?
<gnomefreak> Quinn_Storm: in other words are people only gonna be able to use the compiz in repos?
<Quinn_Storm> gnomefreak: we'll package compiz-git, I just won't be doing it myself
<DBO2> ok thats good
<DBO2> I will begin searching for someone to do packaging
<iXce> reggaemanu?
<DBO2> perhaps
<gnomefreak> lol speaking of
<DBO2> speak of the turkey =)
<gnomefreak> ok can we get the repos on the ML when ready to be used for either/both
<DBO2> the repo is the same as the old compiz repo
<gnomefreak> that way we can build the wiki's around them
<DBO2> xgl.compiz.info I believe
<reggaemanu> hi
<Quinn_Storm> well as you know we're already ready w/ beryl
<Quinn_Storm> I pushed 0.1.0 packages thismorning
<Quinn_Storm> and nigel pushed amd64 edgy pkgs
<gnomefreak> Quinn_Storm: ah
<iXce> http://ubuntu.beryl-project.org
<DBO2> do we have someone doing 64 dapper?
<lupine_85> Quinn_Storm: I'm still mirroring that as compiz-mirror. Should I change my beryl-mirror. over to it instead?
<reggaemanu> DBO, we should use beryl-project.org no compiz.info ;) but the repo is the same yeah
<reggaemanu> oops, it was for DBO2 :p
<lupine_85> actually, I should point them both to the same one...
<DBO2> reggaemanu, yeah sorry about the name, not on my normal PC
<lupine_85> that we we update all the old compiz users, and all the ones using the unofficial repo as well
<DBO2> lupine_85, thats not a bad idea
<lupine_85> it's running now
<gnomefreak> beryl = edgy and up only right?
<DBO2> no
<DBO2> it runs on dapper too
<Quinn_Storm> no it was backported to dapper w/ the same stuff as compiz
<gnomefreak> ok
<DBO2> mostly just libxcomposite
<Quinn_Storm> yeah
<DBO2> those backports should stay in place please =)
<DBO2> ok, to recap gnomefreak
<DBO2> we need packagers for compiz-get, beryl 64bit dapper, beryl 32 edgy-dapper
<DBO2> we want to remove the packaging duty from quinn all together
<DBO2> so she is free to develop
<gnomefreak> ok i like that
<DBO2> nigel_c is already taking care of 64bit edgy
<DBO2> and once edgy is released we can stop packaging dapper
<reggaemanu> i can do it for compiz-git and beryl 32
<DBO2> edgy or dapper?
<reggaemanu> (edgy)
<gnomefreak> k
<DBO2> gnomefreak, can you take notes, I am not able to where I am
<reggaemanu> dapper too with a pbuilder but since i can't test it that's useless
<gnomefreak> yeah give me a sec
<lupine_85> I have 32 and 64 edgy
* Quinn_Storm pbuilders dapper too anyway
<DBO2> yeah but you are stopping that =P
<xopher> I could do beryl 64bit dapper I guess
<lupine_85> I meant for packaging official: [17:22]  <DBO2> we need packagers for compiz-get, beryl 64bit dapper, beryl 32 edgy-dapper
<gnomefreak> DBO2: what is nigel_c packaging for 64bit?
<DBO2> gnomefreak, beryl edgy
<gnomefreak> k
<lupine_85> unofficial beryl-mirror is now pointing to official beryl. unofficial beryl-64 is gone.
<gnomefreak> so reggaemanu and nigel are the only packagers we have for this so far?
<DBO2> officially yes
<DBO2> we  want to replace quinn
<DBO2> we can see if Amaranth wants the job
<iXce> ahem
<DBO2> he was already packaging
<reggaemanu> we need someone else for dapper
<DBO2> iXce, did we miss you?
<iXce> what's the problem with quinn doing some packages?
<DBO2> iXce, she shouldnt have to
<DBO2> it takes time that she can better spend elsewhere
<iXce> yeah
<iXce> that's right :)
<Camus_SoNiCo> let her to some magic :P
<DBO2> her time is far too valuable to have her packaging
<iXce> and maybe should svn be less distro-specific
<DBO2> thats really up to the dev team
<DBO2> but you will find no qualms here
<iXce> bbl
<gnomefreak> ok so far i have " 2 packagers listed" and notes for taking Quinn_Storm off packaging and see if amarath wants it. 
<gnomefreak> and we need some more
<lupine_85> Amaranth will be continuing with the l-r-m stuff, IIRC - I think I'm lending her an ssh session to do the compilation and upload whenever necessay
<lupine_85> erm, him"
<stgraber> I'm interested but I just don't know how to do so :), so if someone explain me what to do and how (I also have 2-3 howtos in my bookmarks), I can help with packaging
<DBO2> gnomefreak, note down that we may hit up Amaranth for info
<gnomefreak> info on what?
<DBO2> packaging
<gnomefreak> noted
<gnomefreak> wecome Xnix 
<DBO2> ok next
<gnomefreak> welcome even
<Xnix> howdy
<DBO2> as far as bug reports go
<DBO2> all team member should be made aware of the bug tracker
<gnomefreak> DBO2: got a handy link?
<DBO2> bugs.beryl-project.org
* lupine_85 bookmarks
<DBO2> on a related note I think team members should be subscribed to the svn commit emails
<gnomefreak> agreed
<Xnix> how do we get on those?
<Xnix> i keep up with it, but didnt know there was email
<gnomefreak> DBO2: are we using LP for beryl buggs?
<Quinn_Storm> we're in the process of fixing that
<gnomefreak> k
<DBO2> gnomefreak, yes and no
<gnomefreak> DBO2: we can get together later about that
<DBO2> gnomefreak, anything that is not in ubuntu repos should not go in launchpad I dont think...
<reggaemanu> the login still don't work
<DBO2> we will have to talk on that later
<gnomefreak> DBO2: agreed
<gnomefreak> brb phone
<DBO2> Quinn_Storm, is there any chance beryl might end up on launchpad itself?
<Quinn_Storm> Generally...probably not...I hate their interface
<reggaemanu> anyway, what is in ubuntu repos isn't package like it should, some patchs missed for xgl -_-
<DBO2> Quinn_Storm, ok
<reggaemanu> gnome-session need some patch too
<mjg59> reggaemanu: The package in the Ubuntu repos works fine with the X server we ship
<DBO2> reggaemanu, have bugs been submitted to launchpad?
<DBO2> mjg59, what about the gnome-session issue
<reggaemanu> mjg59, the java patch is missing, so java app can't work on compiz git or beryl 
<mjg59> reggaemanu: Patch in launchpad plskthxbi
<reggaemanu> and there is no possibility to disable the grabscreen in gnome-session so it doesn't work with aiglx or nvidia beta driver
<reggaemanu> so you cant say that it works with the x server you ship :p
<mjg59> I've used it extensively with the X server we ship
<DBO2> are you using xgl or aiglx?
<mjg59> aiglx
<mjg59> That is, the X server we ship
<iXce> reggaemanu : yeah we know, we're wroking on that with coling right now
<DBO2> iXce, ok thats fine then
<DBO2> Camus_SoNiCo, you wanted to know how you could help
<reggaemanu> mjg59, and you are able to logout with aiglx and the official gnome-session package?
<reggaemanu> that's impossible, the grab break the logout dialog
<mjg59> reggaemanu: Please. File. A. Bug.
<Camus_SoNiCo> yes, but first i'd like to cover Xgl vs AIGLX, not sure about diffs
<iXce> mjg59 : we already did
<reggaemanu> everybody is aware of that since around 6 month...
<Xnix> reggaemanu i can log out sometimes, usuing unpatched gnome-session with beryl
<Xnix> in Xgl
<DBO2> Xnix, thats xgl
<DBO2> doesnt have the issue
<reggaemanu> Xnix, it's ok in xgl, i'm talking about aiglx...
<Xnix> ahh ok
<mjg59> Oh, that's interesting
<DBO2> its on aiglx and nvidia beta drivers that have the issue
<mjg59> Why don't I get compiz bugs?
<reggaemanu> (adn it is the same with the new nvidia drivers now)
<lupine_85> logout works here (edgy+nvidia beta)
<reggaemanu> s/adn/and
<mjg59> I used to
<lupine_85> erm, but KDE
<iXce> but it's not a high priority bug since there's no compositing manager included by default
<iXce> and it's a gnome-session bug
<reggaemanu> lupine_85, we are talking about gnome-session so if you use KDE... ^^
<lupine_85> yep - noticed that after $13$10
<lupine_85> ;)
<DBO2> ok, so bug has been filed, its out of our hands for now
<reggaemanu> libwnck need some patch too, i must repackage it every time there is an update in the official repo, that's boring
* Camus_SoNiCo wants to know de diff between Xgl and AIGLX
<DBO2> Camus_SoNiCo, different arch, while Xgl runs on top of Xorg, AIGLX is part of Xorg
<DBO2> both however provide a means to get TFP
<DBO2> (amoung other things)
<gnomefreak> ok sorry about htat
<givre> mjg59:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/24221 https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/59244
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 24221 in gnome-session "GNOME logout screen doesn't appear when the composite is enabled" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  
<Camus_SoNiCo> DBO2, thanks
<DBO2> the primary difference is aiglx allows for direct rendering Camus_SoNiCo 
<Camus_SoNiCo> ah, great for games ;)
<DBO2> and videa
<DBO2> video
<mjg59> givre: Thanks
<Camus_SoNiCo> DBO2, i should switch then :P
<DBO2> Camus_SoNiCo, there are video card support issues
<stgraber> If the driver can work with AIGLX ...
<DBO2> guys
<Camus_SoNiCo> DBO2, it has issues with nvidia?
<DBO2> I got to run
<DBO2> Camus_SoNiCo, yes
<Camus_SoNiCo> ups :S
<gnomefreak> i have seen a few compiz/xgl bugs on LP recently. not sure if reported than or traiged than
<DBO2> gnomefreak, can you handle it from here? =)
<gnomefreak> DBO2: where are we?
<DBO2> gnomefreak, the differences between Xgl/AIGLX/compiz/beryl
<reggaemanu> the patchs to make libwnck compiz/beryl aware should really go to official ubuntu repo
<DBO2> ill be back later tonight gnomefreak 
* lupine_85 knows what he would like to see in the (any) repos... http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=46021 : kicker-compiz
<gnomefreak> ok but shouldnt that have been with JoelStanley here?
<gnomefreak> DBO2: ok go for it
<gnomefreak> i +1 lupine_85 idea if it is possible to add it in
<mjg59> Oh
<mjg59> No, we're not going to be including that gnome-session patch
<mjg59> It's mad
<mjg59> There has to be a better way to fix that
<reggaemanu> mjg59, that's just a workaround yeah, anyway others distrib just disable the grab for everybody
<lupine_85> it doesn't deal with normal KDE desktops properly, so I think it's not appropriate for official ubuntu
<mjg59> reggaemanu: That would be one solution, yes. It would be preferable to find another one.
<reggaemanu> mjg59, make the grab a gconf option by example ;)
<mjg59> reggaemanu: Let's just make it work...
<lupine_85> won't work for default dapper, though - kde 3.5.2
<lupine_85> it#'s 3.5.4 I think
<iXce> wow Matthew Garett is here :)
<gnomefreak> iXce: he is
<reggaemanu> :)
<iXce> that's great :)
<mjg59> The bug could do with a better description of what the problem actually is
<gnomefreak> is gconf still in compiz in ubuntu repos?
<mjg59> Yes
<gnomefreak> k
<reggaemanu> gnomefreak, yeah
<reggaemanu> that's the last release before it has been removed
<gnomefreak> would it be any benifit to just leave the compiz to ubuntus repos instead of opening Quinn_Storm's for it?
<Quinn_Storm> gnomefreak: well, compiz-git is still such a moving target...and besides, for ubuntu, we're trying to move toward Beryl (at least that's the opinion I got from Mark)
<mjg59> As Seb points out in that bug, setting LTSP_CLIENT will do what you want to do here in any csae
<iXce> Quinn_Storm : even though beryl is full of "dirty" code and "hackish" workarounds? ^^
<lupine_85> hehe
<iXce> mjg59 : any hint on how to activate that LTSP thing please?
<lupine_85> it will be if I start on it!
<reggaemanu> ^^
<gnomefreak> iXce: im sure cleaning up would be a requirment befor eubuntu takes it
<mjg59> iXce: Just make sure that LTSP_CLIENT is set in your environment
<mjg59> Putting it in .gnomerc should do
<iXce> and if i've got no .gnomerc?
<mjg59> iXce: Create one? :)
<lupine_85> .bashrc? .xsession ?
<mjg59> I believe it's used by default
<gnomefreak> compiz will have to stay around for a while anyway
<iXce> mjg59 : great idea :p
<iXce> gnomefreak : that's already one of the main goals of beryl
<mjg59> In the end, it's likely that we'll go with whichever solution works best
<iXce> documentation, debugging, code cleanup, usability ^^
<Xnix> iXce what do you mean?
<reggaemanu> so that's pretty like the hackish gandalfn patch, we have to put a line in .gnomerc
<Xnix> iXce ahh k
<mjg59> That's not really going to be a decision we make before part-way through the Edgy+1 cycle
<mjg59> Mark's quite clearly keen on whatever gives us the most bling possible, but we'll see what's most effective for our users by then
<mjg59> Bling's not going to come at the expense of reliability
<gnomefreak> if we add beryl to ubuntu repos in future is it possible to get a login option in gdm/kdm/xdm?
<Quinn_Storm> what he seems to like is the community aspect...he's not big on davidr's development model
<iXce> mjg59 : i fully agree with that :)
<reggaemanu> gnomefreak, that should be possible
<gnomefreak> reggaemanu: that way people without much hacking can log in and out
<reggaemanu> gnomefreak, we can also update gnome-wm to prefer beryl if composite is available and use metacity if not
<gnomefreak> k
<reggaemanu> that's what i use currently, and that's what it is done on suse
<mjg59> So why doesn't gnome-session just check whether the compositing manager selection atom is set?
<mjg59> That would seem the sensible thing to do
<iXce> +1
<gnomefreak> i agree also
<reggaemanu> mjg59, on suse gnome-session is patched for that
<mjg59> reggaemanu: Ok. Can you point me at the patch?
<reggaemanu> it checks for the tfp extension
<reggaemanu> mjg59, yeah, 2 seconds
<mjg59> reggaemanu: Thanks
<mjg59> I'd rather have functionality depend on what's running, rather than a user-set environment variable
* Camus_SoNiCo will leave soon and wants to know how to help on development
<iXce> that's much more sensible :)
<Xnix> yes
<reggaemanu> i don't find where it was, i will jst upload them somewhere
<gnomefreak> Camus_SoNiCo: i can get up with dbo and others and get a mail out to the ML on how to contribute/develop and who to talk to about it if people are willing to help
<Camus_SoNiCo> gnomefreak, that will do for me but i think we should have wiki pages also
<gnomefreak> Camus_SoNiCo: even motu can help you with packaging if that is what you really want help with
<gnomefreak> Camus_SoNiCo: we will
<iXce> hmm
<mjg59> Ok
<mjg59> By the way:
<gnomefreak> Camus_SoNiCo: alot of wiki's will be poping up
<iXce> is there a skilled web designer/programmer willing to help with beryl page?
<mjg59> I'm not ideally suited to deal with bugs in compiz/beryl themselves
<mjg59> But
<Camus_SoNiCo> gnomefreak, great then
<Xnix> wiki sounds good Camus_SoNiCo 
<Xnix> gnomefreak awesome (abouth the wikis)
<mjg59> If people have issues with the integration of these packages with other packages in main, feel free to talk to me
<lupine_85> one question - currently the unofficial beryl thread (in Edgy) is full of <random-hack-to-get-beryl-working-with-whatever>... is there any sane way to get some of them dealt with automagically?
<mjg59> Like this gnome-session issue, for example
<mjg59> Oh, yeah, while I'm at it
<lupine_85> e.g. in #ubuntu-xgl ust now, someone missed out enabling the composite extension
<reggaemanu> mjg59, here are all the patchs related to compiz/xgl they use, and the .src.rpm for gnome-session if you want to see the specs http://www.compiz.info/.gnome-session/
<Camus_SoNiCo> Xnix, i think wikis can attract "isolated" devs...
<Xnix> yeah
<mjg59> reggaemanu: Ok, they don't seem to be doing this the way I want to do it
<mjg59> Give me a minute and I'll test
* Camus_SoNiCo leaves and says bye to all. Nice meeting :D
<mjg59> Does the new nvidia stuff need --strict-binding?
<lupine_85> mjg59: where would I check that? I've never *Set* it...
<gnomefreak> lupine_85: i dont know but if so soon is good (i have added a crap load of stuff to xorg.conf to get it working
<iXce> oh yeah, about packaging, aceracer24 was ok to deal with amd64 packages
<reggaemanu> mjg59, no that work with or without --strict-binding
<mjg59> Ok
<mjg59> So why does --indirect not imply --strict-binding?
<lupine_85> it's stuff like setting composite "true" | composite "0" for nvidia | fglrx that i'm thinking of... people generally expect packages to do all the hard work for them ;)
<mjg59> If you've got free drivers, you don't need to edit anything in xorg.conf
<Xnix> yeah
<iXce> mjg59 : even for intel chips?
<mjg59> It would be nice if the proprietary vendors would deal with that
<mjg59> iXce: That's what I use
<iXce> oh :)
<iXce> no XAAOffscreenPixmap then?
<reggaemanu> lupine_85, composite is set to true by default now, and that works for nvidia/ati/intel aiglx/xgl/xorg so there's no need to change that
<mjg59> iXce: That's handled magically
<lupine_85> oh, right... I must be out of date ;)
<iXce> great :)
<Xnix> lupine_85 edgy?
<lupine_85> yes
<lupine_85> I meant in the knowledge stakes though
<rodarvus> XAAOffscreenPixmap is handled automatically since version 1.6.1 (?) of the i810 driver
<Xnix> hmm strange, mine was set by default
<Xnix> lupine_85 ahh
<lupine_85> but doesn't fglrx need it off?
<lupine_85> erm, ignore me. 0=true, of course
<mjg59> It's done in the X server
<mjg59> Through a foul hack
<reggaemanu> maybe we will have a good free nvidia driver soon :) ("nouveau" driver)
<Xnix> alright i gotta head out guys, class over :P later
<reggaemanu> i gotta buy cigarettes and eat something, see you after
<iXce> cigarette killed everyone ^^
<rodarvus> mjg59, ahn, you added this patch on 1:1.1.1-0ubuntu8
<mjg59> rodarvus: Yeah
<ThiefOfBaghdad> Err.. am i late for the u-d-e meeting
<rodarvus> (I was under the impression this was turned on by default on the intel driver recently, though)
<gnomefreak> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 17:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 20:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu
<tuxmaniac> clear
<tuxmaniac> bah.. terminal
<tuxmaniac> gnomefreak> hi. is it still on?
<gnomefreak> ok i gotta go i will send DBO notes and we will see where we are
<tuxmaniac> gnomefreak> ok. good
<iXce> not so much notes ^^
* tuxmaniac blames his manager for being late
<tuxmaniac> :(
<gnomefreak> iXce: i have a few notes :)
<iXce> :)
<tuxmaniac> gnomefreak> one small question
<gnomefreak> tuxmaniac: yes?
<tuxmaniac> Can the IRC Channel be changed to ubuntu-desktop-effects
<tuxmaniac> rather than having it as ubuntu-xgl
<tuxmaniac> was this discussed?
<tuxmaniac> I mean ubuntu-xgl does not (atleast by name) consider the other ones that are around
<tuxmaniac> Just a suggstion
<gnomefreak> tuxmaniac: that is something ive been meaning to get up with DBO about there will be a post to the ML after i talk to him
<tuxmaniac> gnomefreak> great!
<iXce> what's the ml?
<Quinn_Storm> I've gotta head out guys
<tuxmaniac> iXce> Mailing list
<iXce> i mean, where is it?
<Quinn_Storm> sleeptime
<iXce> tuxmaniac : yeah i know :)
<iXce> night quinn
<iXce> arg
<tuxmaniac> iXce> :P
<stgraber> iXce: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop-effects
<tuxmaniac> stgraber> you are quicker than me :D
<stgraber> :)
<iXce> thanks
<stgraber> np
<heno> are we still on the agenda somewhere?
<mjg59> For reference, I've got a patch to gnome-session that I'm happy with now
<Laifen> re
<iXce> hi Laifen 
<Laifen> Hi iXce
<heno> mjg59: any idea how complicated it would be to pump AT-SPI info into compiz? (to allow cursor tracking say)
<heno> currently the magnifier seems fairly static
<mjg59> I'm not really sure how that's meant to work
<mjg59> Keith Packard talked about it for a while and then found some other shiny thing
<heno> as in the fuctionality or the implementation?
<heno> right
<mjg59> I honestly can't remember how much functionality at-spi has in this respect
<heno> is that who I should poke about it?
<mjg59> It's worth asking him
<heno> anyone on this team deep enough into the code to manage that?
<heno> or anyone likely to be at Mountain View?
<iXce> Quinn_Storm and onestone
<heno> iXce: thanks I'll try them too
<iXce> it's about beryl, right?
<heno> iXce: any sort of accelerated graphics will do
<heno> it's about making a better magnifier for visually impaired people
<heno> Has anyone here tried gnome-mag?
<heno> in gnopernicus or Orca
<heno> You'll see that it's very inferior to the compiz magnifier
<heno> on performance
<heno> But has a few crucial features
<heno> see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs/compiz-mag for more info
<mjg59> reggaemanu: Uploaded
<reggaemanu> mjg59, gnome-session patched? :)
<mjg59> Yes
<reggaemanu> cool
<givr1> mjg59: great
<reggaemanu> there is still libwnck and add the java patch to xgl-xserver :p
<reggaemanu> ^^
<mjg59> I thought we didn't have a working patch for libwnck yet?
<reggaemanu> we have
<reggaemanu> there is already a patched package in xgl.compiz.info repo
<reggaemanu> but i have to repackage every time there is an update in ubuntu's repo, that's pretty boring
<mjg59> reggaemanu: Didn't somebody say something about it not working properly in some cases?
<mjg59> And can you point me to the bug/patch?
<reggaemanu> mjg59, www.compiz.info/patches/libwnck
<reggaemanu> and no there is definitively no problem
<mjg59> reggaemanu: Those patches are large and undocumented
<reggaemanu> it change nothing for non compiz users
<mjg59> Have you got a pointer to the bug discussing the issue and why each of those is required?
<reggaemanu> mjg59, the above patch fix the on top menu entry for compiz (by default it is greyd since libwnck don't have a above hint)
<reggaemanu> mjg59, viewport add viewport entries like workspaces ones with metacity
<reggaemanu> window move is needed for the viewport patch
<mjg59> reggaemanu: Wait. Why do we need viewport support?
<iXce> mjg59 : because the so-great davidr choosed that :/
<mjg59> I'm not going to be responsible for reintroducing this distinction into wnck
<mjg59> We have desktops.
<reggaemanu> mjg59, compiz/beryl don't have workspace, it is vewports (as in freedesktop specs)
<mjg59> What's the difference between desktops and viewports?
<reggaemanu> a workspace can contain many viewports
<mjg59> Will this ever actually happen?
<mjg59> I mean, will anyone we actually care about ever have a setup where there's a meaningful distinction between the two?
<reggaemanu> compiz use only one workspace with many viewport, like it should be (e.g. freedesktop specs), metacity and kde don't follow fdo specs
<mjg59> No, that doesn't answer my question
<mjg59> Is there any situation in which a user is going to have both workspaces and viewports?
<mjg59> (As in, more than one of each)
<reggaemanu> we don't care about the distinction, the fact is that with compiz, there is no entry to move the window on another workspace/viewport since it handle only workspace and there is only one workspace
<mjg59> So remove all references in user-visible strings to "viewport" and replace them with "workspace"
<mjg59> "Viewport" is an utterly meaningless term to users
<lupine_85> the distinction is important if you run KDE :(
<mjg59> Oh argh.
<lupine_85> standard kicker works with workspaces, not viewports
<mjg59> Ok. I am not uploading anything that will make the term "viewport" appear in the UI.
<lupine_85> sensible :). meant nothing to me until I looked it up
<mjg59> So the distinction is that a workspace is a logically distinct thing, and viewports are segregated on-screen areas of a workspace. Windows can overlap different viewports, but not workspaces.
<mjg59> Is that right?
<reggaemanu> mjg59, the original threads where david reveman have post theses patch http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/compiz/2006-April/000117.html
<reggaemanu> (those i have sent to you are the originals ones ported to libwnck 2.16, except the apperance patch that replace the opacity one, more complete)
<mjg59> Ridiculous hatred
<mjg59> What does the appearance one actually do?
<mjg59> Set opacity with wnck?
<mjg59> Neat toy. So not getting in :)
<iXce> appearance is for opacity, saturation and brightness i think
<reggaemanu> mjg59, it add this menu entrie if the wm support the opacity hint ://static.flickr.com/65/199540689_00b3dfbb74.jpg
<reggaemanu> http://static.flickr.com/65/199540689_00b3dfbb74.jp
<reggaemanu> erf
<reggaemanu> http://static.flickr.com/65/199540689_00b3dfbb74.jpg
<reggaemanu> _
<mjg59> Ok
<mjg59> I'm reasonably happy with most of them other than the appearance one
<mjg59> I'll see if I can sneak them in
<reggaemanu> there is an opened bug (by a libwnck dev) on bugzilla.gnome.org about these patchs but there is no reply
<reggaemanu> that should be great, although if you don't add the apperance patch people will continu to use the non official package :)
<reggaemanu> everybody use it since before dapper
<reggaemanu> and i'm tired to re-package it everytime
<reggaemanu> it's not a really important patch that's true
<reggaemanu> but users like that :/
<reggaemanu> anyway, i'm gotta eat, be back later
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Oct 17:00 UTC: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Xnix> reggaemanu so edgy gnome-sessios shold be patched now?
<mjg59> Xnix: Yes
<Xnix> mjg59 awesome :D
<Xnix> and those libwnck except the appearance one? or not yet
<mjg59> Not yet
<Xnix> alright
<Xnix> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-30
<Laifen> Bonjour  tous
<Fujitsu> Laifen, what did Seveas say yesterday?
<Hobbsee> @schedule syndey
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydyey
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 04 Oct 03:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Oct 06:00: Technical Board | 12 Oct 06:00: Edubuntu | 13 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Hobbsee> ouch
<ompaul> @schedule dublin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Dublin: 03 Oct 18:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 13:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 21:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 21:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<ompaul> too early arrrrr
<Seveas> ompaul, yeah, I probably won't make it either
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-24
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<kraut> moin
<siretart> MootBot:
<siretart> #help
<siretart> #startmeeting
<siretart> hmmm
<dholbach> siretart: according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot #startmeeting sould work
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<siretart> dholbach: in other meetings I've seen MootBot actually doing some answers
<dholbach> yeah
<siretart> so there seems to be a bit more magic behind it
<dholbach> or it's broken
<popey> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 24 Sep 19:00: Screencast Team | 25 Sep 15:00: Server Team meeting | 25 Sep 16:00: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 19:00: Technical Board | 26 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 12:00: Desktop Team Development
<rexy_> !UTC
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about utc - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<iGadget> hi
<iGadget> so the meeting is in 1 hr?
* iGadget thought he was living in the GMT+1 area
* iGadget looks at the clock
<iGadget> 20:00
<iGadget> ohwell :)
<iGadget> guess I'll just stick around
<popey> :)
<popey> yes iGadget, it's 20:00 for the screencast meeting
<popey> 20:00 UK time
<popey> gah @ timezones
<iGadget> popey: np, I'll stick around ;)
<iGadget> I guess it's the daylight-saving-time-stuff that's making global coordination troublesome again ;)
<Vaelen> Here ya go:
<Vaelen> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=900,24,136,195,438
<Vaelen> You can customize it for whatever timezones you want to look at.
<zul> popey: date --utc also works
<iGadget> Vaelen, zul: perhaps those are nice tips for the meeting page...
<Vaelen> Sorry for a very newbie question, but which meeting is going to take place at 20:00 UTC?  I'm supposed to attend the next Kubuntu meeting, but I'm having a hard time figuring out when that is going to be, exactly.
<iGadget> Vaelen: next meeting is about screencasts
<Vaelen> Oh hey, maybe I should read the channel topic next time. :P
<Riddell> Vaelen: there is no meeting at 20:00 today
<Riddell> Vaelen: the next kubuntu meeting should be on the first wednesday of next month
<iGadget> Riddell: yes there is
<Vaelen> Riddell: Ok, cool.  What time do you normally have them?
<iGadget> just not about kubuntu ;)
<Riddell> Vaelen: what are you attending for?
<Riddell> Vaelen: whenever is most convenient for people
<Vaelen> I added something to the agenda after talking about it in #kubuntu-devel for a while.
* iGadget will be right back
<popey> Bong!
<popey> Screencast Team meeting starts
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Meeting20070924
<popey> short agenda for today :)
<popey> anyone here for the meeting?
<spd106> I'm here again
<popey> yay
* iGadget here :)
<popey> * Action points from last meeting
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Meeting20070910
<popey> hmm, most of that will become part of the next item, so will just jump to it
<popey> * Current status
<popey> We are behind again :(
<popey> I blame 3 things:-
<popey> 1. Having two children whose birthdays are in september
<popey> 2. Having a week holiday
<popey> 3. Me being lazy ;)
<popey> So it looks like I won't be able to make 20 more screencasts before the end of the month to take us from the last one (10) to the 30th
<popey> So I suggest that instead I will carry on making them, numbering them 11-30 but releasing them when they're ready
<popey> Which means the month of screencasts lasts for about 2 months
<popey> which is of course disappointing
<popey> but it was a mad plan anyway
<popey> I would rather continue to make high quality screencasts than churn out 20 small ones of low quality
<spd106> I agree
<popey> how does that sound?
<popey> should I put an announcement on the site?
<popey> we have already had people asking in comments about when the next ones will be out, where they are, what has happened..
<popey> I have one that I made today that I will upload tomorrow, I propose uloading then posting a comment afterwards detailing the revised plan
<iGadget> sounds like a plan
<popey> we have also lost Andrew Gee which is a resource less for making screencasts
<popey> which doesn't help
* iGadget coughs
<popey> Ok, I will publish this next one "Updates & Upgrades" tomorrow and put an announcement in
<popey> yeah, I also need to upload some of the queue that built up
<iGadget> Alan, there's a chance I'll have to step down as well :(
<popey> oh dear
<iGadget> Allthough I haven't contributed that much yet
<popey> heh :)
<popey> Hey, I'm happy to get any contributions at all, no pressure on anyone
<popey> It's not like the screencasts are going to delay the release of Ubuntu :)
<popey> (not this release anyway ;)
<popey> I am pragmatic if nothing else
<popey> I need to also look at revising the plan now I am back from holiday
<popey> I shall mail the list with the plan I had and see if we can get a discussion going on what screencasts people want
<popey> or maybe ask on the site?
<iGadget> Perhaps both?
<popey> Post a message asking for requests as comments?
<popey> yeah, good idea
<spd106> Are we going to use 7.10 for all screencasts?
<popey> good question
<popey> yes and no
<popey> the updates & upgrades one I did today uses dapper, edgy, feisty and gutsy :)
<popey> for the most part 7.10 would seem like a good target
<spd106> It's just the background in Gutsy changed recently
<popey> as it will soon be released, so it means the screencasts are "relavent"
<popey> yeah, i noticed that today :)
<popey> these things will happen
<iGadget> it's an improvement, though
<popey> on all screencasts that feature gutsy I do try to mention that its based on a development release
<popey> And I don't expect gutsy to change _that_ much between now and oct 19th
<popey> 18th
<popey> a few cosmetic things isn't a major deal
<iGadget> maybe it's a bit far off, but should we focus on moving to 8.04 as soon as it's usable, since it'll be an LTS?
<popey> heheh
<popey> it won't be usable until the end of the year :)
<popey> at least
<iGadget> okay, too far off then ;)
<popey> in my experience the delta between one release and the next is actually pretty small
<popey> if you compare dapper and gutsy there's quite a difference, but compare edgy and feisty and the difference is much less
<popey> there are changes of course, and we should be aware of them
<spd106> It's not like we'll be using KDE 4
<popey> but I don't think we should fret about it too much
<popey> no, indeed
<popey> ok, that's current status
<iGadget> what about (I'm brainstorming here)... 'scripting' the screencasts so they can be redone easily in another version?
<popey> they are _kinda_ scripted
<popey> but not too much
<popey> you mean a storyboard type thing?
<iGadget> no, I mean an automated kind of thing
<popey> oh
<iGadget> I don't know if it's possible
<popey> me neither
<iGadget> would it be worth investigating?
<popey> worth a thought, yes
<popey> sorry, i was thinking then :)
<iGadget> np, I'm a slow reader ;)
<popey> will note that and we could have a chat on the list about it
<popey> g o o d
<popey> any questions/comments about the curent status?
<popey> * Month Of Screencasts 2007 progress
<popey> 10 of 30 complete, to be 11 of 30 tomorrow
<popey> more ideas needed - as mentioned
<popey> will mail the list and canvas opinion on the site
<popey> blimey, that's it
<popey> fastest meeting ever
<popey> any further questions, comments or points you guys want to talk about
<iGadget> geez... and it's my first :)
<popey> we have some time
<popey> ok
* iGadget thinks
<spd106> Where's the MoS schedule again? I've lost it
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MonthOfScreencasts
<spd106> Oh yeah
<popey> :)
<popey> i should be uploading two tomorrow
<popey> assuming I get a nice quiet house to work in :S
<popey> (which is a big issue here - screaming babies in the background of a screencast don't sound good) :)
<popey> Matthew Rossi asked if we could have a meeting that was at a time when he could attend - he is in Aus
<popey> so he ideally wanted one on a weekend
<iGadget> just a suggestion about meeting on IRC... you guys know mebeam.com?
<popey> I didn't, but I do now
<popey> thing about irc is that it has a very low barrier to entry
<popey> many of the web conferencing systems require flash, a webcam, a mic etc
<iGadget> true, if you're a good typist ;)
<spd106> Do you need a camera?
<popey> looks like it
<iGadget> for mebeam.com, you do yes
<spd106> That'll be tricky then
<popey> it reduces the potential people who could join I guess?
<popey> given every other team meets on irc..
<iGadget> okay, perhaps that's too much then. But what about audio converencing?
<popey> iGadget: interesting point
<popey> the Ubuntu-UK loco team are looking at using asterisk
<popey> to do call conferencing via SIP or something
<iGadget> I figure most people involved in screencasts would have a mic... ;)
<popey> needs a mic and a reasonable net connection
<popey> heh :)
<popey> the problem with all the video/audio conferences is logging though
<popey> i can easily copy/paste this log into the wiki, job done
<iGadget> true, true
<popey> with the audio/video ones someone has to transcribe it
<Daviey> SIP: ^ anybody wanna help test?
<popey> heh :)
<popey> I will test with you another time yes Daviey :)
<popey> for those that don't know, Daviey is the expert on Asterisk around here
<popey> and voip in general
<iGadget> cool
<Daviey> 'expert' hmm :P
* iGadget should get his audio setup working first ;)
<spd106> What about a SIP screencast Davey?
<popey> heh
<iGadget> hehe :)
<popey> we have that scheduled actually
<Daviey> Isn't there already an ekiga screencast?
<popey> one all about voip
<popey> not one of ours no Daviey
<popey> i was thinking something more general, not necessarily just ekiga
<iGadget> ekiga would be nice... since it's already shipping with ubuntu
<popey> agreed
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MonthOfScreencasts
<iGadget> (never got it working, though)
<popey> ^ look at the bottom of that page :)
<iGadget> okay, will do
<popey> "ekiga" :)
<popey> just needs someone to make it :)
* iGadget should check the page more often
<popey> you could subscribe to it :)
<Daviey> Well i'm not sure how much you could cover.. Would either need to be reallly high level - or pretty lowlevel (technical and ~20mins)
<popey> 30 mins isn't unreasonable
<popey> i made a 40 min one today :)
<Daviey> eager beaver
<popey> anyway, can I just get the next meeting date out of the way
<popey> I propose the weekend of the 13th october
<popey> to allow the aussies to join in
<popey> thats over 2 weeks away
<popey> but with our slim agenda I don't think that's an issue?
<iGadget> I have one proposal about subtitles, if we're done with the SIP thing :)
<popey> go ahead
<iGadget> there are a lot of subs now that are on screen for less than 2 secs now
<iGadget> thats _really_ fast
<iGadget> most people I checked can't read that fast
<popey> hmm, I talk too fast?
<iGadget> maybe
<spd106> yep
<iGadget> but what I usually do is merge two subs together
<iGadget> in most cases, that's enough
<spd106> It's either short time or they take up too much screen space
<iGadget> indeed, that does occur
<popey> so it would be better if I talk slower, say less?
<popey> leave big gaps :)
<iGadget> especially in languages that need 'more space' :)
<popey> heh
<popey> like Deutsch?
<Daviey> Did you guys find a solution to multi-audio track?
<iGadget> like nederlands ;)
<popey> ahhh
<iGadget> deutsch probably as well
<popey> Daviey: ogg does support multiple audio tracks
<popey> but the problem is we would have to keep remastering every time someone made a new audio track
<popey> and re-encode
<popey> and they would bloat up with multiple languages on board
<iGadget> it would be very sweet if we could figure out a way to do that smoothly
<popey> likely easier to keep them separate
<iGadget> mmmkay... true
<popey> ok iGadget and spd106 I will endeavour to speak slower
<popey> and leave some pauses for text
<popey> sorry about that
<iGadget> no prob, we all live and learn ;)
<popey> indeed
<spd106> The applications screencast was particularly bad
<popey> this is exactly why we have these meetings :)
<iGadget> precisely :)
<popey> because there is a lot in it done very quickly?
<spd106> yes, too much really
<popey> ok
<popey> I will bear that in mind for future screencasts
<popey> one problem I worry about is that if I go to slow it might get boring
<spd106> It was still very good
<popey> people might nod off
<popey> it's okay spd106 I can take it ;)
<iGadget> Well it's quite easy to see - if you're making english subtitles which are on screen less that 2 seconds, that's suspicious
<popey> haha
<iGadget> usually that's too fast
<popey> like small print on a tv advert
<iGadget> ghehe... something like that ;)
<popey> "Warning, the value of your house may go down as well as up,..."
<popey> ok, point taken, will fix that in future ones
<iGadget> * toll free number, only connection charges apply ($10,-)
<popey> lucky we're only 1/3rd the way through then :)
<popey> :)
<spd106> Did you get the flash streaming working?
<popey> the subtitles in the flash streaming?
<spd106> yes
<popey> no, not yet
<popey> but I haven't spent much time on that
<spd106> ok
<popey> will do though
<spd106> Don't spend too much on that, it can be sorted out later
<popey> sure
<popey> I spent too long on it the week before holiday
<popey> will concentrate on making the screencasts for now
<iGadget> so... what about the long term - how are we going to keep track on screencasts that are no longer acurate and need to be updated?
<popey> well iGadget that's a very good point#
<popey> the one I made today in effect replaces one I made a year ago
<popey> and the installing one supplements the installation one I did a year ago too
<spd106> deja vu
<popey> I guess I could put a note on the old ones "obsolete - please see this screencast" with a link to the newer ones
<iGadget> perhaps it would be a good idea to mention which ubuntu versions are affected by the screencast?
<popey> the ones this year are more comprehensive though
<iGadget> in the screencast itself?
<popey> i try to tag them on the site
<popey> http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/43 <- only gutsy ones
<spd106> Tag them with Ubuntu release or just the date?
<iGadget> maybe both :)
<popey> http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/35 only dapper
<iGadget> there might be screencasts which can last for ages
<iGadget> like the one about free software
<popey> yeah
<iGadget> other ones can become obsolete in the next version, there's no way to be sure in advance I guess
<popey> indeed
<spd106> New ones every six months
<popey> although to be fair the ones about dapper are still accurate
<popey> dapper is a current supported release
<popey> there is a wider plan here
<popey> don't know if I explained previously did I?
<popey> to put screencasts directly in ubuntu
<spd106> On the DVD?
<popey> not sure yet, probably online, streamed
<popey> so you can go to Help --> Videos   in any app
<iGadget> sweet!
<popey> and get a window come up with a selection of videos
<popey> that would need some major management
<iGadget> that would surely beat the crap out of MS online support
<popey> and all the stuff we are learning about during MoS can feed into this
<popey> so the feedback I get from you guys is great
<popey> it's still an early plan
<iGadget> but... that will require massive amounts of work
<popey> yup :)
<iGadget> do we have enough manpower to do this?
<popey> they would be short videos
<popey> seconds or minutes long
<spd106> It's more online integration too
<popey> showing how to do specific tasks
<popey> yeah, needs a lot of work
<iGadget> which... can be combined to create entire screencasts?
<popey> yeah, watch them all back to back
<popey> :)
<iGadget> a 'lego' sort of screencast-building? nice :)
<popey> yeah, I like the building blocks analogy
<popey> they could be tagged and rated
<spd106> Going back to the scripting thought... would festival be any use?
<popey> festival the text to speech thing?
<spd106> yeah
<popey> useful for?
<spd106> automating screencast
<popey> I don't know. how do you mean?
<iGadget> my idea about scripting was about the visual part only, but if festival is good?
<iGadget> I haven't played with it yet
<spd106> It cuts the work down a little
<iGadget> yes, but if it cuts down the quality too much, I'm not sure if it's an improvement...
<iGadget> the audiotrack is key to getting the user involved IMHO
<popey> you mean, get festival to "read" the script?
<spd106> Yes
<popey> ahhh
<popey> is festival any good? :)
<popey> i haven't tried it for some time
<spd106> No idea, just read about it recently
<popey> to be honest the audio part is not that time consuming
<iGadget> do you know radiohead's 'OK computer'? ;)
<popey> its prep, recording the video and editing it that takes the time
<popey> the audio takes about as long as the video is in length
<popey> if I make a 40 min video the audio takes 40 mins to make (roughly)
<popey> but it takes 2+hours to make a 30 min video
<iGadget> so I guess we'd gain much more time in getting the video part smoothed out.. right?
<popey> yeah, and that's not easy
<popey> some of it is planning - figuring out what I am going to video..
<iGadget> besides of automated scripting making re-recording a lot easier, could it help save time in the initial recording process?
<popey> some of it is videoing
<popey> i doubt it would help much to be honest
<popey> one day I will create the "how to make a screencast, screencast" that people keep asking me for
<spd106> You could then run a competition for the final screencast
<iGadget> well, if you really want users to assist you, I suppose that one has a  top priority...
<popey> iGadget: i have written it up on the wiki :)
<popey> I am not sure this is the thing that stops people
<popey> people know how to create them
<iGadget> eh...
<popey> I am not sure that "knowing how to create a screencast" is what stops people making them
<popey> they know how to make them, but they don't have the time to do it?
<iGadget> I don't, but I'm just plain lazy besides having way to little time, so nevermind me ;)
<popey> it's quicker/easier to make a wiki page then a screencast
<popey> exactly :)
<popey> nothing wrong with that, that's just the problem we have
<popey> people don't have time to commit to something like this
<spd106> Would you accept lower res screencasts?
<spd106> 1024x768 is all I have
<popey> which I why I am glad that I can get on and make them and you guys can transcribe/translate them
<iGadget> I thought 1024x768 was okay?
<popey> for non-mos2007, yes, definately
<popey> we already have some at 1024x768
<iGadget> eh... what's mos2007?
<popey> Month Of Screencast 2007
<popey> :)
* iGadget bangs himself on the head
<iGadget> darn... stupid :)
<iGadget> sorry
<popey> i.e. if it's "just" a screencast, not specifically for MoS, then yes, 1024x768 is great
<popey> np
<popey> silly acronym
<popey> the only reason is that I specifically wanted 30 high quality, high res ones
<spd106> That's what I thought
<popey> if you see the front page of the site there are 3 that are 1024x768 :)
<popey> what's important is consistent quality
<iGadget> but... If we are going to start with this building-block thing, then we should agree on one res only, right?
<popey> oh that's not coming for a while :)
<popey> i wouldn't start thinking too seriously about that until about November :)
<popey> (after UDS Boston) :)
<iGadget> okay... so what about smoothing the creation process, would that be doable?
<iGadget> working with the istanbul team for example?
<iGadget> I mean, making the creating process much simpler and less time consuming?
<popey> yeah, I had a meeting with jono about this.. he had some ideas about this subject
<popey> he suggested a screencasting application
<iGadget> ghehe... his  Next Big Thing after Jokosher? :D
<popey> one that gave you a window inside which you have a nested session or something
<popey> heh
<popey> and recorded it
<jono> iGadget: oi! :)
<popey> there are already tools that can do this but they are non free
<iGadget> jono! :D
<popey> and anyway I don't think this would shave massive amounts off the time
<popey> it would make it easier, thats for sure
<iGadget> one sec, brb
<popey> we're running out of time
<popey> I will bring all these things up on the list for further discussion
<popey> so we can get the ideas fleshed out
<spd106> Have we agreed on the next meeting time?
* iGadget back
<iGadget> okay... I for one would surely love to contribute more, but the current process is just way to much work for me, sorry :(
<iGadget> and with contribute I mean creating screencasts, redubbing them etc.
* iGadget thinks perhaps he should just quit his dayjob...
<iGadget> loads of time :)
<popey> spd106: I will figure out a time and mail the list
<popey> need to find out what time Aus is awake :)
<popey> heh, thats what I did iGadget :)
<iGadget> geez... so who's paying your bills now? :)
<iGadget> canonical? :D
<popey> heh
<popey> I am on "holiday"
<popey> spending time at home with the family, and when they stop bothering me, I make screencasts :)
<iGadget> gheheh
<iGadget> I know the feeling
<popey> ok, so I will paste a summary of this to the wiki
* iGadget just tucked in his gf, babbling in her sleep again ;)
<popey> :)
<popey> and mail the list with the subjects we have talked about
<iGadget> great
<popey> and update the site with a status update
<popey> thanks for the input guys, much appreciated
<iGadget> np, thanks for listening ;)
<popey> next meeting likely to be oct 13th/14th
<spd106> ok
<iGadget> that's a weekend, good choice
<popey> oh, good :)
<popey> you might not say that when you see the time ;)
<popey> 4am!
<popey> (just kidding)
<iGadget> ;)
<popey> right, cheers chaps, wifey calls :)
<iGadget> allright, cheers!
<spd106> Thanks
* iGadget looks at the clock
<iGadget> bedtime... bye all
<popey> nn
<Zero_> Hello
<Zero_> where is the meeting ?
<popey> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 25 Sep 15:00: Server Team meeting | 25 Sep 16:00: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 19:00: Technical Board | 26 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 12:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 15:00: Community Council meeting
<popey> what meeting Zero_ ?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 25 Sep 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 12:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 15:00 UTC: Community Council meeting
<Zero_> ops
<Zero_> it's over ^^
<Zero_> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1098
<popey> yeah, we just had it
<popey> the logs are online https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Meeting20070924
<Zero_> tkz :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-25
<kraut> moin
<freeflying> @schedule shanghai
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 25 Sep 23:00: Server Team meeting | 26 Sep 00:00: Kernel Team | 26 Sep 03:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 04:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 20:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 23:00: Community Council meeting
<RobV> @schedule dublin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Dublin: 25 Sep 16:00: Server Team meeting | 25 Sep 17:00: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 20:00: Technical Board | 26 Sep 21:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 16:00: Community Council meeting
<dendrobates> @schedule new york
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 25 Sep 11:00: Server Team meeting | 25 Sep 12:00: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 15:00: Technical Board | 26 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 08:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 11:00: Community Council meeting
<nealmcb> someone is coming over to work on my house this morning - I may get pulled away suddenly....
<soren> nealmcb: morning? It's 5 in the afternoon!
<nealmcb> :-)
<nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<soren> @now
<dendrobates> hey everyone.
<sommer> hey all
* mathiaz waves
<soren> o/
* jdstrand waves
* dendrobates looks around for keescook
<freeflying> start?
<nealmcb> soon we'll see what time the meeting log bot thinks it is.... ntp says 9:03:25
<soren> ...if it works at all :)
<dendrobates> ok lets go.
<dendrobates> Who is here?
* mathiaz still hasn't moved from his position
* keescook is here
* jdstrand is here
* nealmcb is here
<dendrobates> Is this anyones first server meeting?
* sommer here as well
* dthacker is here first meeting
* freeflying is the first time
<dendrobates> hi dthacker freeflying.  Welcome.
<dendrobates> The first topic is: Present and discuss ServerTeam/HardyIdeaPool page
<nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/HardyIdeaPool
<dendrobates> It is time to start gathering ideas for the next release.
<dendrobates> I encourage everyone to think about what they would like done in Ubuntu Server
<freeflying> dendrobates: how about groupware-server now
<dendrobates> and add it to the page nealmcb so kindly posted.
<nealmcb> :-)
<nealmcb> I added a number of See Also links there, and also a link to every existing spec that is subscribed to by at least three server team members, or two members and the team itself.  That should make it easy to grab some existing specs that you might want to spruce up and nominate for Hardy and put in in one of the categories higher up on the page.
<dendrobates> We will use the ideas on this page to plan the UDS discussions.
<nealmcb> and also remind us of specs that need to be marked as done, obsolete or superceded
<mathiaz> nealmcb: did you compute the list of subscribed blueprints by hand ?
<dendrobates> Any questions about the Ideapool wiki?
<nealmcb> mathiaz: I munged the html page, and asked the launchpad folks for some xml or text output options :-(
<dendrobates> freeflying: add your ideas to the wiki, I think that is a good idea.
<nealmcb> I also tried drawing a graph with graphwiz, but it doesn't help much....
<mathiaz> I'm thinking about sending a email to ubuntu-server to present the IdeaPool wiki page.
<mathiaz> And ask people to add their ideas there.
<ogra> mathiaz, you revived it ? yay
<nealmcb> mathiaz: I talked about it in my mail last night
<ogra> s/revived/reanimated/
<dendrobates> mathiaz: that is a good idea, it reaches a lot more people.
<mathiaz> ogra: it has already existed ?
<ogra> mathiaz, yep, dholbach created it two years ago
<mathiaz> ogra: I haven't seen anything specific for the ServerTeam.
<ogra> and it quickly became a mess
<ogra> since nobody looked after it and people just added and added stuff
<mathiaz> ogra: you're refering to IdeaPool, the big wiki page.
<ogra> yeah
<mathiaz> ogra: yeah - I've seen it to. Let's hope it won't end up in the same state.
<nijaba> we are focusing on server ideas here, and only for Hardy
<ogra> ah, youre plannng a subpage somewhere ? ...
<dendrobates> mathiaz: I'll post to the mailing list asking for input.
<mathiaz> We're just focusing on ideas for Hardy.
<nijaba> so it is time bombed
<mathiaz> dendrobates: ok.
<ogra> nijaba, as long as someone looks after it all is fine i think :)
<nijaba> ogra: we'll make ure we do
<mathiaz> dendrobates: I think you should mention that people can reply to the mail also, and you could collect idea for the wiki pages.
<dendrobates> good idea.
<nijaba> s/ure/sure/
<dthacker> Is there a list of new specs implemented for Gutsy, I could use that to do some housecleaning.
<nealmcb> wow - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IdeaPool sure is a mess :-)  I like the idea in HardyIdeaPool of just one line per idea, with links to blueprints
<mathiaz> It may start a big thread, but someone has to track all the ideas and organise them somehow.
<dendrobates> next topic
<dendrobates> previous Action items.
<mathiaz> dthacker: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy
<dendrobates> mathiaz: since I was not attending, can you  go through the open items?
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20070911
<mathiaz> we've setup the TeamReporting infrastructure. And there is a section about the ServerTeam in the monthly report.
<nealmcb> thanks
<mathiaz> we currently take the minutes of the ServerTeam meeting and add them to the report.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: did you get community help?
<mathiaz> dendrobates: yes. from dantalizing.
<dendrobates> great!
<mathiaz> we aggreed that he'll update the team report page according to the minutes I sent from the serverteam meeting.
<dendrobates> nealmcb: I believe I saw your spec tracking email go out.
<nealmcb> yup
<nealmcb> I also added a section to the roadmap
<mathiaz> nealmcb: great ! Thanks.
<dendrobates> soren: can you update us on the tasksel tasks?
<soren> dendrobates: Sure.
<nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap#blueprint
<soren> I haven't actually looked at the dailies or the beta ISO's, but I believe the new tasks should be rolled into them.
<dendrobates> soren: they are.
<soren> \o/
<soren> They're not completely locked down, but now they're there, and ready for testing.
<soren> If we can agree on changes, that's fine, I think.
<dendrobates> speaking of testing, we need to add a test to isotracker for each new task.
<dendrobates> unless that has been done already.
<mathiaz> we also need to specify the testcases.
<ogra> dendrobates, heno and stgraber usually do that if you tell them the version
<dendrobates> I think we will have to provide the testing instructions, though.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: yop.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: do you have admin rights on isotesting ?
<dendrobates> I some admin rights, but no knowledge.
<jdstrand> I can verify that I already have a list of things to do from heno for amd64 server ISO testing
<mathiaz> dendrobates: you may be able to add new testcases then, with a link to the wiki page describing the test.
<dendrobates> I will contact heno and make sure.
<jdstrand> s/I can verify that//
<dendrobates> ok, jdstrand you can do it.
<dendrobates> soren's email about an official MTA generated some discussion.
<jdstrand> dendrobates: I am not sure what I just signed up for.  I was trying to say that heno already contacted me about doing ISO testing
<dendrobates> soren: would you cae to summarize.
<soren> Yes. I've yet to sent the e-mail to debian-devel, but it's in the works.
<soren> Sure.
<dendrobates> jdstrand: I'll take care of it.
<mathiaz> jdstrand: did you create an account on isotesting ?
<jdstrand> mathiaz: yes
* pschulz01 missed the meeting call in #ubuntu-server.
<mathiaz> jdstrand: so you've been subscribed to a series of testcases.
<soren> We agreed that settling on a default mta is a good idea and also that it should be postfix. We probably will not change packages to *only* change that, but if we're changing a package (and hence carrying a delta to Debian) we'll do it. Also, we'll try to convince Debian to do the same.
<soren> Technically, it'll be done by adding a meta package called something like default-mail-transport-agent, which will be prepended each time something depends on m-t-a.
<jdstrand> mathiaz: I got an email from heno asking me to do so.  heno and I talked on IRC about what I could do.  We agreed, then got an email this morning
<soren> default-mail-transport-agent will then in Ubuntu depend on postfix. Debian might choose exim4.
<dendrobates> great and mdz seemed happy that you were addressing this issue.
<nealmcb> sounds like a good, flexible solution
<freeflying> soren: it should depends on postfix | exim4, but not only on postfix
<soren> freeflying: Yes. Only postfix.
<soren> freeflying: A package that needs an m-t-a will depend on:
<soren> Depends: default-mail-transport-agent |  mail-transport-agent
<soren> Each of postfix, exim4, msmtp-mta, sendmail, qmail, etc... will "Provides: mail-tranport-agent"
<soren> default-mail-transport-agent will depend on postfix.
<Mithrandir> well, they already do the latter.
<Mithrandir> except without the typo
<soren> That makes any m-t-a fulfill the dependency, but postfix be the preferred one.
<soren> Mithrandir: :p
<soren> Mithrandir: Right.
<dendrobates> soren: what gives you the feeling that Debian might choose exim4?
<soren> dendrobates: That at laeast used to be the default mta in debian.
<Mithrandir> they've historically preferred exim, but there's a fairly large contigent of postfix lovers there too
* soren hasn't used Debian for a few years..
<soren> Mithrandir: They don't install an mta by default anymore?
<Mithrandir> soren: I can't remember; I tend to explicitly install exim myself.
<soren> Yeah. I like exim, too :)
<Mithrandir> (well, exim4, not exim)
<freeflying> soren: in sid, they will not install exim defaultly
<dendrobates> well I think it is settled, we will default to postfix, and soren will broach the subject with Debian.
<dendrobates> that is the last of the action items.
<dendrobates> next is the roadmap. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<lamont> soren: I'm happy to help you with uploading the default-mail-transport-agent package, if you need
<dendrobates> I noticed mathiaz has triaged about 15 million samba bugs.
* nealmcb cheers for mathiaz!
<soren> lamont: In Debian, you mean?
<lamont> yes
<soren> lamont: Cool.
* soren hugs mathiaz 
<lamont> 'twould be funny for me to own an exim-depending package for a while...
<nealmcb> mathiaz: only launchpad has you beat :-(  but they fixed that I guess :-)
* mathiaz only started to look at the bugs... At some they'll have to be fixed
<mathiaz> nealmcb: yeah. The auto-expiring feature has been disabled I think.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: anything you want to say about triaging corner?
<mathiaz> not really.
<mathiaz> just that we still need to have a look at the bugs.
<dendrobates> I think packaging is done as well.
<mathiaz> when I've received the expiring mails I was surprised  and thought that we even had a look at the bugs to see whether they're valid or not.
<mathiaz> that means we still need to go through the bugs and see which are relevant.
<dendrobates> Testing: we need as much testing of the beta as possible.
<mathiaz> especially on server-type hardware.
<dendrobates> I encourage everyone to signup at https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/qatracker/
<dendrobates> and do as many tests as possible.  We especially need sparc testers.
<pschulz01> dendrobates: Is there a sparc release?
<mathiaz> if anyone has access to server hardware (from dell, ibm, hp, etc...) could you please test the server iso ?
<dendrobates> yes
<dendrobates> mathiaz: can you post to the mailing list asking for testers?
<mathiaz> dendrobates: I was wondering when I should do that ?
<mathiaz> dendrobates: for the pre-beta or once beta has been announced ?
<dendrobates> I was thinking of that as well.  we should get heno's opinion.
<dendrobates> documentation:
<dendrobates> any updates?
<pschulz01> dendrobates: Yes!
<dendrobates> pschulz01: go ahead.
<pschulz01> dendrobates: I only started this evening, while waiting..  but..
<pschulz01> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz/UbuntuServerDocumentationReview
<sommer> I added some of the sections I worked on to the ServerTeam Roadmap Documentor section
<mathiaz> pschulz01: so these are the notes about the current server guide ?
<dendrobates> sommer: thanks.
<pschulz01> sommer: You made a good start.,..
<mathiaz> pschulz01: isn't it too late to make such changes ?
<nijaba> pschulz01: could we add  section in the guide on how to set up thin clients ?
<pschulz01> mathiaz: Yes. I'm sucking down the documentation svn as we speak..
<mathiaz> pschulz01: I think there is a Freeze for the documentation as of now.
<pschulz01> mathiaz: Oh well..
<mathiaz> nijaba: I think it would be a good idea, but too late for gutsy.
<pschulz01> mathiaz: I'll have patches.
<sommer> One of my Hardy ideas to update the Server section before the freeze.
<nijaba> mathiaz: for hardy, then
<mathiaz> nijaba: yes.
<dendrobates> but not community documentation, right.
<nijaba> mathiaz: cause we are mentioning it on he server cd jacket
<mathiaz> sommer: yes. You can add a documentation section in the HardyIdeaPool
<nealmcb> I threw a bit of text in the wiki for some of the missing ubotu factoids, but some more links to relevant documentation pages would also be good. Then need to get them into the database.   And I keep watching for missing topics.
<dendrobates> nijaba: in my opinion it is mentioned too much. on the web page as well.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: by community you mean the wiki at help.ubuntu.com/community %
<pschulz01> mathiaz: One of my other ideas is here.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz/UbuntuServerDocumentation
<pschulz01> mathiaz: 'micro-manuals'
<sommer> mathiaz: will do
<dendrobates> mathiaz: yes we can add docs there, right.
<dendrobates> that might be all we can do for Gutsy.
<mathiaz> pschulz01: I suggest you add your ideas to the HardyIdeaPool and then create a blueprint.
<pschulz01> mathiaz: Ok.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: yes. community wiki is not frozen.
<dendrobates> so if we are missing import docs, add them there.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: the server guide is frozen so that translator can work on it.
<dendrobates> important.
<dendrobates>  ok can we move to development?
* pschulz01 goes woot... I now have entire doc tree,
<dendrobates> mathiaz: AppArmor update?
<mathiaz> we're back on track. the kernel module has been updated.
<keescook> \o/
<mathiaz> we've started to see bug reports about profiles, so people are using it.
<mathiaz> I'm quite happy with the current state. keescook ?
<keescook> yeah, it's looking good.  the delay in getting the new kernel module set us back, but I think we're in good shape now.
<keescook> I too have some abstraction tweaks for post-beta.
<mathiaz> we won't ship a profile for dhclient3
<mathiaz> but cupsys will have one
<nealmcb> is there a way for folks to share profiles and stuff like that?  (knows little about apparmor...)
<dendrobates> I am happy to announce the libpam-ldap and libnss-ldap have been accepted into main and are in the seed.
<keescook> has pitti looked at cupsys web UI issues?
<mathiaz> nealmcb: yes. upstream has a repository
<keescook> mathiaz: is there docs on how to use the shared repo?  I'd like to submit a few of mine
<mathiaz> keescook: I don't think so. He was busy playing RM
<keescook> okay
<mathiaz> keescook: not that I know of. I think their dns is not setup correctly.
<nealmcb> dendrobates: cool - thanks
<mathiaz> keescook: hum.. it is: http://apparmor.opensuse.org/
<dendrobates> so ldap-client-config and auth-client-config are in Gutsy.
* jdstrand cheers *hooray*
<dendrobates> it has been a long time coming in my opinion.
* nijaba yeeeppee
* pschulz01 goes woot!
<nealmcb> this is a good time for folks to update the blueprints related to these successes....
<dendrobates> we have already discussed hardy planning, so the last few minutes are open.
<dendrobates> anyone have anything?
<mathiaz> do we need meetings more often ?
<pschulz01> mathiaz: Have added 'micro-manual' to HardyIdeaPool.
<mathiaz> or is every two weeks enough ?
<dendrobates> good question, with Hardy coming up, maybe
<sommer> I have a quick documentor section question, would it be better to create a page like pschulz01 did and link it from the RoadMap page?
<dendrobates> lets continue like this, every two weeks, until there is a need.  perhaps after
<dendrobates> uds
* nealmcb I think given the need to review and drive specs, and the bug work, etc it would be useful to meet weekly
<nealmcb> uds is in just one month...
<dendrobates> any other opinions?
<soren> We alternate this slot with the kernel team.
<pschulz01> sommer: I just did that as I didn't want to step on anyones toes.
<nealmcb> ajmitch has expressed interest in a different time slot from time to time
<soren> We'd need another timeslot every other week.
<sommer> pschulz01: I think it makes great sense, less clutter on the RoadMap page.
<dendrobates> we would have to choose a different time, perhaps earlier, for our European friends.
<mathiaz> yes. That would help folks in asia.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Sep 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 12:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 15:00 UTC: Community Council meeting
* pschulz01 would appriciate another time slot.
<nealmcb> what would  0100 UTC be like?  on alternate weeks??
<mathiaz> dendrobates: you'd do it earlier ? I don't think it would help aussie
<soren> That's 3 AM here.
<soren> Of course you could have a meeting without me.
<dendrobates> we should take this up on the mailing list.
* nealmcb nods
<dendrobates> there might be other who could not attend at this time that have a preference.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: I aggree.
<dendrobates> any volunteers to start te conversation on the mailing list?
<nealmcb> does launchpad have a way to plot folks' timezones?
* nijaba raises his hand
<dendrobates> ok nijaba, go ahead.
* nijaba will o
<dendrobates> we are out of time folks.  Good meeting.
<nealmcb> thanks folks
<mathiaz> nealmcb: nope. But keescook has a good website that does that.
<keescook> timeanddate.com!
<keescook> the "Meeting Planner" on there is great.
<mathiaz> thanks.
<nealmcb> mathiaz: yeah.  I'm mostly looking for something that will take an existing team with known timezones and help people guess about good time
<mathiaz> so next meeting in two weeks, same place, same time.
<mathiaz> nealmcb: that would be great. You should file a bug about it.
* nealmcb surfs
* nealmcb nods
<pschulz01> mathiaz: Blueprint is here -> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/micro-manuals
<dendrobates> bye everyone
<mathiaz> pschulz01: seems great. But you should try to follow the SpecSpec template in the wiki page.
<sommer> thanks all...later on
<pschulz01> mathiaz: URL?
<pschulz01> mathiaz: Just SpecSpec?
<mathiaz> pschulz01: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureSpecifications
<mathiaz> pschulz01: explains the whole process.
<pschulz01> mathiaz: Ta.
<mathiaz> pschulz01: np.
<mathiaz> Thanks all
<nealmcb> rats - the foaf/xml output from launchpad doesn't include the timezone...  https://edge.launchpad.net/~nealmcb/+rdf
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Sep 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 12:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 15:00 UTC: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<soren> @Schedule Copenhagen
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 25 Sep 18:00: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 21:00: Technical Board | 26 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 14:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 17:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team
<nealmcb> @schedule denver
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Denver: 25 Sep 10:00: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 13:00: Technical Board | 26 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 06:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 09:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 10:00: Kernel Team
<allee> @Schedule Berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 25 Sep 18:00: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 21:00: Technical Board | 26 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 14:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 17:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team
<ScottK> @Schedule New York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 25 Sep 12:00: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 15:00: Technical Board | 26 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 08:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 11:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team
<siretart> allee: I didn't register the meeting with the fridge team
<siretart> but AFAIS, there are no collisions with other meetings anyway
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 12:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 15:00 UTC: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
<allee> siretart: yep, one hour for fai
<siretart> allee: hm. if we need longer, we can still move to #fai/oftc
<siretart> allee: I've setup an agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FAITeamAgenda
<siretart> \sh_away: around?
<siretart> hey lazyb0y, hi torkel
<torkel> hi
<siretart> I think we can start?
<siretart> \sh doesn't seem to be around
<siretart> alvinc wanted to come, has anyone heared from him?
<siretart> I've setup a MeetingAgenda here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FAITeamAgenda
<siretart> if someone wants to add something, now would be a good time to speak up :)
<siretart> #startmeeting
<siretart> anyone around besides me?
<lazyb0y> I'm here :)
<torkel> me too :-)
<siretart> well, MootBot doesn't seem to listen for me, but let's use the syntax anyway: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
<siretart> since that will make writing minutes a bit easier
<siretart> [TOPIC]  Introduction
<siretart> since most of us don't know each other too well, I've though we could start with a small introduction of ourselves
<siretart> to see who is in the team and why
<siretart> I start:
<siretart> My name is Reinhard Tartler, both ubuntu and debian developer.
<siretart> I've been following fai in ubuntu since a couple of release cycles (since dapper I think)
* allee is here now
<siretart> I work at the university of erlangen, where I admin a small student lab
<siretart> torkel: you're next :)
<torkel> my name is Bjrn Torkelsson
<torkel> I'm working at High Performance Computing Center North (HPC2N), Ume Universty
<torkel> I have been using FAI for about 5-6 year. First with Debian and we swithed to Ubuntu around breezy
<torkel> we are currently using FAI to install three clusters and a bunch of servers
<torkel> in total 500 machines
<siretart> impressive
<torkel> that's about it. How's next?
<siretart> allee?
<lazyb0y> I take it :)
<allee> my name is Achim Bohnet.  I'm working as a sysadmin at MPI fuer extraterrestrische Physik at Garching, Germany.  In my free time I try to help with Kubuntu and  debians  kde-extras-team
<lazyb0y> (soory :)
<lazyb0y> please go on
<allee> I use fai since dapper, and slowly convert the mixuters of linux here at the insitute to fai.
<lazyb0y> allee: mixuters?
<allee> currently are  60 desktop and 10 laptop system installe with fai.  2 to 3 times more is possible with the time
<allee> mixture
<allee> 2 clusters with 50 nodes are also waiting to fai installed instead of preseeding.  but never break a running system
* allee done
<siretart> lazyb0y: okay, now its your turn :)
<lazyb0y> Ok, my name is Henning Sprang
<lazyb0y> I work as "IT architect" at silpion in Hamburg
<lazyb0y> which turns out to be mainly software development in java, as well as writing a book about xen
<lazyb0y> FAI happens mostly in my spare time at home, where I install 3 laptops, 2 servers, and currently 3 Xen VM's with FAI
<lazyb0y> Oh, my company sponsored working on red hat installs with FAI - but it nevcer truned a real project yet, but helped finding some bugs
<lazyb0y> and, one of these machines is Ubuntu (Dapper, too lazy to convert)
<lazyb0y> I used to publish some FAI howtos and even a branch with some helpful stuff toi install uUbuntu and others with FAI
<lazyb0y> but never really used FAI _on_ Ubuntu, actually
<lazyb0y> U guess thats' it :)
<siretart> ok
<siretart> lets move on with the next topic
<siretart> [TOPIC]  status quo a: housekeeping (what has happened now)
<Mrfai> hello all
<siretart> hi Mrfai
<siretart> what has happened so far:
<siretart> I've backported the latest fai 3.2.1 release from debian to ubuntu.
<siretart> Backporting here means, that I've recompiled it for various earlier releases including gutsy.
<siretart> It works for me fine, with a dapper server installing feisty clients.
<siretart> I've started to work in a local bzr branch, which I've created from the svn fai using bzr-svn
<siretart> however, after the latest bzr-svn upgrade, merging between my working branches broke,
<siretart> and I lost my nerve with it
<siretart> oh, what I did change is: fai is non-native in ubuntu,
<siretart> this means all my modifications are available in the diff.gz
<siretart> all my work is now available as source package in the team PPA
<siretart> e.g.: http://ppa.launchpad.net/fai/ubuntu/pool/main/f/fai/fai_3.2.1-0ubuntu1~ppa1~feisty1.diff.gz
<siretart> so Mrfai can easily see what is going on in ubuntu ;)
<siretart> any questions so far?
<lazyb0y> I think it's good to make FAI non-native to see the diffs...
* allee nods
<siretart> okay
<siretart> A few words of the team I've registered in launchpad:
<siretart> the fai team has 2 objectives:
<siretart> a) hosting the team PPA (the archive)
<siretart> b) being notified of bugs filed against fai in ubutu
<allee> I've tried to far to get used to bzr and fai team
<siretart> and of course to get the team a bit visible :)
<siretart> allee: I've requested the fai svn to be imported to bzr via launchpad: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/fai/trunk
<siretart> did you notice?
<allee> I've some branches now lying a round with siretart chanages and some patches I've made or got from l
<siretart> (btw, do the 'edge' urls work for you?
<allee> siretart: my branches are based your svn import to launchpad
<siretart> cool. feel free to publish them!
<allee> will do
<siretart> so it seems indeed to make sense to use bzr for us?
<Mrfai> will changes to the original fai svn treen automatically be pushed into your bzr system?
<lazyb0y> I have to get into BZR, to be of some use in this team, I think
<siretart> I mean, we can still easily submit them to Mrfai, since they are based on the svn import
<lazyb0y> (and setup some UBuntu test instances to try them)
<allee> Mrfai: they are sync very hour(s?)
<siretart> Mrfai: yes, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/fai/trunk is updated automatically by launchpad
<Mrfai> ok
<siretart> Mrfai: the only problem I've noticed is that the $Id$ tags are not expanded
<siretart> they are with RCS and svn
<allee> Mrfai: my plan (and did) is to send you or debian bts the patches that I add
<siretart> I think they since a few times a day, but I'm not sure
<siretart> s/since/sync/
<siretart> torkel: have you already experience with bzr?
<torkel> no
<siretart> torkel: well, on the one hand, bzr is rather easy to learn. on the other hand, if you have a patch to contribute, I think if you send it in per email, someone else can apply it quite easily
<siretart> is this okay for you?
<torkel> guess I can learn bzr. I have meant to take a look at it for a while :-)
<siretart> great! :)
<allee> about gusty status(as mentioned in #fai):  at least for me make-fai-nfsroot's nfsroot does not boot my test machine. .cfg is downloaded via tftp then I get a boot: prompt
<siretart> Mrfai: all branches published to launchpad have a online sourcecode browser
<torkel> however I prefer if we also really try to push patches back to Mrfai as soon as possible
<siretart> Mrfai: and since we can easily diff against the official svn trunk, merging our patches back to you should really be easy
<siretart> Mrfai: do you see any problems with that?
<siretart> torkel: I fully agree!
<allee> fwiw: my doc patch I sent to Mrfai was a bzr diff :)
<lazyb0y> you only need to make sure to track somewhere which pacthes were already applied by Mrfai
<Mrfai> no. The fai_3.2.1-0ubuntu1~ppa1~feisty1.diff.gz seems to be really small so I can include some changes into upstream.
<Mrfai> But I will never apply all changes to the svn trunk, since some are really ubuntu specific
<torkel> preferably there should be no difference, but that might be really hard to achive
<siretart> torkel: yes, perhaps we can tweak debian/rules to detect if it is built in debian or ubuntu
<siretart> torkel: and have a file debian/NFSROOT.ubuntu besinde debian/NFSROOT
<lazyb0y> yes, if possible patches should be kept as small as possibel
<torkel> or using "runtime" tests
<siretart> this way Mrfai could merge them more easy
<torkel> why not NFSROOT.<dist>?
<lazyb0y> maybe we should review them from time to time to see if somebody has an idea how to incorporate them that somebody else didn't have yet
<siretart> lazyb0y: btw, there is a 'bzr-rebase' plugin, so that you can rebase your branch on a newer svn revision
<Mrfai> FSNROOT and NFSROOT.ubuntu might be an option, but those two file are mostly identical, so it's not the best idea to keep two versions of it
<siretart> lazyb0y: this way, you can generate diffs against the latest svn-trunk
<Mrfai> what about a class UBUNTU inside etc/fai/NFSROOT?
<lazyb0y> siretart: and it automatically detects which patches don't neefd to be applied anymore? (cool, then!)
<siretart> Mrfai: well, kernels are handled differently, and we need to remove upstart in favor of sysvinit. that's the only difference currently
<siretart> lazyb0y: it doesn't "detect", but what it does acheives basically the same
<lazyb0y> Mrfai: if we start doing Dist-specific stuff, we should not use only a distribution name
<allee> I've current trunk (lp svn import), trunk-fixes (patches I plan for upsteam), gusty (what should go into gusty) and gusty-fixes (my work tree)
<lazyb0y> better: a variable called DISTRIBUTION, with the vakue of the dist name in it
<lazyb0y> or, so you can better see that this class is about a distribution: DIST_UBUNTU
<siretart> Mrfai: if UBUNTU was a hardcoded built-in class, sure!
<siretart> lazyb0y: I think we need both: built-in classes: DEBIAN, LENNY, UBUNTU, GUTSY and HARDY (set when appropriate)
<lazyb0y> I use it here in my setups, and because there are differences between versions, I end up having DIST_DEBIAN, DIST_UBUNT, DIST_DEBIAN_ETCH, ...
<torkel> what if you want to install Feisty, Gutsty, ...
<Mrfai> Mmm, it seems that new classes for each distri and release causes more diffs than keepeing the old system of diff between debian and ubuntu
<lazyb0y> siretart: ok, if these classes are needed, I think my naming scheme is a little better
<lazyb0y> BTW, whar are we about to achieve? :)
<allee> IMHO we should first the  fai   in ubuntu to the same state as in debian, before we should think about installing debian and *ubuntu hosts from same fai server
<siretart> given ubuntu's 6 month cycle, I think multidistribution sites are more usual in ubuntu than in debian
<siretart> I agree to allee
<torkel> me too
<siretart> let's therefore move on with the next topic, okay?
<allee> k
<siretart> [TOPIC]  current problems with fai in ubuntu
<torkel> though we will install muliple versions of Ubuntu soon...
<siretart> so far I'm aware of the following problems
<siretart> fai-cd is totally broken: the cd won't boot
<siretart> I haven't looked at it yet, but it feels like a live-initramfs problem to me
<siretart> has anyone more input on it?
<siretart> or does anyone plan to look at that more closely soon?
<allee> gusty pxe boot is broken too (I assume)
<allee> fai-cd is low prio for me
<torkel> live-initramfs seems to be broken when trying to install dapper
<Mrfai> Is there a fai-cd iso image for ubuntu, that I may test?
<torkel> allee: what's the problem with pxe boot in gutsy?
<siretart> Mrfai: I haven't created one. but it should be pretty easy to create one in an ubuntu chroot on a debian system
<siretart> Mrfai: (debian's debootstrap can install ubuntu chroots nowadays)
<Mrfai> siretart: I have no time to build a ubuntu fai-cd of my own. But I may test an iso image.
<lazyb0y> siretart: is that already with the deboostrap in etch?
<siretart> I've started gutsy's d-i via pxe just today
<allee> torkel: pxe.cfg/xxx download via tftp then I get boot:.  that it.
<Mrfai> It may also be nice to have a fai-cd iso image after the next ubuntu release
<siretart> lazyb0y: I think you need lenny's debootstrap
<lazyb0y> ok
<lazyb0y> or rinse of something like that
<siretart> Mrfai: yes, that would be great
<torkel> allee: permissions problem?
<allee> 5 days ago test host booted, with lots of error
<allee> torkel: let's move debug session to after the meeting
<siretart> allee: so it doesn't even load the kernel and initrd?
<torkel> allee: sure
<allee> siretart: no
<siretart> Mrfai: I see that I can build an gutsy fai-cd and will notify you when I've published it on my webserver, okay?
<Mrfai> fine
<siretart> great
<siretart> the other issue I'm aware of was that unionfs on nfs was broken in gutsy
<siretart> glance reported that in a launchpad bug
<siretart> luckily, gutsy's kernel was upgraded and the bug disappeared
<siretart> so that seems to be a no issue again :)
<siretart> btw, has anyone heared of glance?
<allee> never before
<siretart> he was interested in the team as well. hm
<siretart> any other problems you've noticed with fai in ubunut?
<torkel> I saw him a couple of days ago :-)
<torkel> I have tried to install dapper using PPA but from the looks of it it will require some work
<Mrfai> It would be nice to check if several FAI environment are working in gutsy. E.g. fai-cd boot, pxe boot, dirinstall
<Mrfai> that way, we se were are stille some problems
<siretart> Mrfai: yes, perhaps we can collect that information in a test matrix on wiki.ubuntu.com?
<Mrfai> s/se were/ see where/
<siretart> opinions?
<lazyb0y> test-matrix: ACK
<torkel> sounds good
<Mrfai> maybe a test matrix on faiwiki, that we will also use for Debian as well
* lazyb0y is thinking about setting up automatic testing for fai with crucible someday
<allee> test-mateix: ACK
<Mrfai> I vote for the test matrix on faiwiki
<siretart> ok, who else is for using faiwiki?
<lazyb0y> yes, better in the fai wiki - there are some notices about testing general already, which I pout in there someday
<allee> faiwiki is fine with me.
<siretart> I don't really care, I can setup pointers from wiki.ubuntu.com to faiwiki
<siretart> I assume I need an account in faiwiki, right?
<lazyb0y> siretart: yes, please do that! so we  can collect all information on how to test fai on a single place
<torkel> keeping everything at one place is probably easier
<siretart> well, we can clear that afterwards, okay?
<lazyb0y> siretart: you can setup an account sourself since the wiki upgrade
<Mrfai> HAs anyone an example for such a matrix?
<siretart> [AGREED]  setup a test matrix fai-cd, pxe boot, dirinstall on faiwiki
<siretart> lazyb0y: great!
<lazyb0y> [LINK]  my notes about testing: http://faiwiki.informatik.uni-koeln.de/index.php/Testing
<allee> siretart: + softupdate
<siretart> [AGREED]  setup a test matrix fai-cd, pxe boot, dirinstall, soft update on faiwiki
<siretart> :)
<siretart> next topic?
<lazyb0y> Mrfai wanted an example of such a matrix
<allee> k
<siretart> Mrfai: I've thought of a simple table: x-axis: ubuntu distro, y-axis: one of fai-cd, pxe boot, dirinstall and soft-update
<siretart> Mrfai: we are using such matrixes in ubuntu for iso testing
<siretart> wow, only 15 minutes left
<Mrfai> siretart: ok
<lazyb0y> ok, that was what I also thought :)
<siretart> [TOPIC]  #
<siretart> [TOPIC]  short term plans for Ubuntu 7.10 (gutsy)
<siretart> #
<siretart> my personal plans for gutsy is to look at the fai-cd problem
<siretart> and see if there is an easy fix
<siretart> does anyone else have plans he wants to do for gutsy?
<Mrfai> I think main plan is to solve the bugs. I will help soilving the fai-cd problem
<siretart> thanks! :)
<allee> my plans are right now : get gusty pxe boot,  'error' free demohost install,  add class to get a (K)ubuntu install similar to live/alternative CD installation.
<lazyb0y> I can add to my agenda settin up a chroot/xen vm for fai.cd creating testing
<siretart> kubuntu class sounds great. I imagine it to be rather trivial by adding an additional class
<lazyb0y> Mrfai: I could try setting uo a ubuntu chroot on faiwiki, so you can get isos from there?!
<siretart> lazyb0y: that would be awesome!
<allee> siretart: yes, I think so.  *UBUNTU classes should be easy
<siretart> (and would spare me the trouble uploading the cd)
<siretart> other ideas?
<Mrfai> How much tinme do we have to solve the remaining bugs for gutsy?
<siretart> Mrfai: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
<lazyb0y> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
<lazyb0y> :)
<siretart> :)
<allee> siretart: Later I'll check with serverteam, about Puppy(?) integration (or stick with cfengine)
<siretart> Mrfai: since fai is 'only' universe, we can do upload until october 17th, I'd expect
<siretart> allee: is that a gutsy or hardy goal?
<Mrfai> siretart: ok. Let's do it a few days eariler :-)
<allee> realistically hardy
<siretart> because hardy goals would be my next topic :)
<Mrfai> allee: I think you meant puppet
<siretart> Mrfai: that would be ideal ;)
<siretart> Mrfai: but we have PPAs now, so we can provide updated fai packages any time from there
<allee> Mrfai: yeah, probably.  Was written in ruby
<siretart> for any ubuntu release
<siretart> [TOPIC]  hardy ideas
<siretart> what I have in mind for hardy: I will attend the UDS-Boston: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Boston
<siretart> and want to present fai on ubuntu there, to show it the server team
<Mrfai> good idea
<siretart> I hope I can find intereted people there to join the team or at least use it :)
<allee> puppet/ cfengine like simple example, for stuff fai softupdate is too heavy
<soren> siretart: You might :)
<siretart> like soren :)
<siretart> hello there ;)
<lazyb0y> [LINK] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Boston
<soren> Just FYI: TB meeting in 7 minutes..
<siretart> soren: espc. the softupdate stuff might be interesting for you!
<siretart> right
<siretart> further ideas: create fai-cds for all flavors of ubuntu: kubuntu, xubuntu, etc
<siretart> however, they might not be Cd-sized, but rather dvd sized
<Mrfai> let's try to prepare a fai-cd before UDS-Boston so siretart can show this CD.
<siretart> that would really help!
<lazyb0y> allee: I don't unseratdn the idea of replacing softupdate with puppet...
<Mrfai> And the same installation from usb Stick
<Mrfai> usb stick is much cooler than from CD/DVD
<lazyb0y> that sounds a great goal!
<siretart> for hardy, I also wanted to see, if we can replace the FAI Nfsroot with nbd
<siretart> edubuntu is doing that for their ltsp-nfsroot
<ogra> siretart, :)
<Mrfai> siretart: file a wishlist bug for that, please
<lazyb0y> siretart: what's the upside of this?
<allee> btw we have bzr config mgnt for fai?
<allee> ^^hardy:)
<siretart> [ACTION]  siretart to file a whishlist bug for nbd support in fai nfsroot
<Mrfai> no, not yet. Good idea to make ubuntu people happy
<Mrfai> I mean bzr ccheckout of the config space
<siretart> [ACTION]  allee to file a whishlist bug for bzr support in fai
<siretart> :)
<allee> Mrfai: I'm happy with git :)
<lazyb0y> any problems with nfs trhat nbd will solve?
<allee> but we want to reach to bzr fans too ;)
<siretart> lazyb0y: no more portmapper. more performance, I'd expect
<siretart> perhaps ogra can elaborate here
<ogra> lazyb0y, better security control if you want it
<lazyb0y> ok
<Mrfai> some sites do not allow NFS for whatever reasons
<siretart> ok
<ogra> for us in ltsp nbd is only the undelying layer for a squashfs we mount together with a tmpfs into a unionfs
<siretart> ogra: do you use casper in the squashfs?
<allee> yeah, more (access) control would be a nice thing.
<torkel> can we have support for afs installations too? :-)
<Mrfai> nfsroot via afs?
<ogra> nbd's design for serving imges instead of files as block devices made us look at that btw
<siretart> torkel: if you hack that part, I'd see no problems ;)
<ogra> siretart, well, a similar script called ltsp-nbd
<allee> torkel: shudder
<torkel> siretart: someday... :-)
<siretart> ogra: ah, I see
<ogra> but there is a lot stolen casper code inside :)
<siretart> [ACTION]  siretart to talk with panthera about nbd support in live-initramfs
<ogra> also some code for using network swap that makes it possible to boot systems with even 28M ram
<siretart> ok, last point before we leave to our #fai channel
<siretart> [TOPIC]  housekeeping (future meetings, communication, launchpad infrastructure etc.)
<siretart> do we need a seperate mailing list?
<siretart> or does Mrfai allow us to use linux-fai-devel? ;)
<Mrfai> use linux-fai-devel
<allee> no
<siretart> objections from anyone?
<torkel> no
<allee> linux-fai-devel is fine
<siretart> [AGREED]  ubuntu fai team is using the 'main' fai developer list: linux-fai-devel
<siretart> we currently have the launchpad team for PPA uploads
<siretart> I'd say every team member is fine to upload new package at anytime he sees fit, is that okay?
<allee> okay
<siretart> or do we need some more fine grained process?
<torkel> depends on if you trust us to do uploads :-)
<siretart> I think atm this would be allee, \sh and me as main uploads
<allee> we should just be aware that other may use it and don't upload experimental stuff
<siretart> [AGREED]  any team member is fine to upload as he seems fit until further notice
<allee> At the end bzr-buildpackage would be used for testing the fai team branches
<siretart> how about new team members?
<siretart> the current policy is to mail me and I add him after a short introduction
<allee> siretart: time over -> #FAI?
<siretart> shall we change this to mail linux-fai-devel, and we talk about that in #fai?
<siretart> well, allee is right, we should clear the stage for the technical board
<siretart> let's move then to #fai. thanks for attending!
<siretart> #endmeeting
<allee> k
<soren> @now
<soren> mdz: tb meeting?
<mjg59> Whoops. Good call.
* ogra waves 
<soren> :)
<siretart> hey, the fai team finished 7 minutes ago ;)
<soren> mjg59: Don't feel bad. You seem to be the first one here :)
<mjg59> I don't think I have contact numbers for the others at the moment
<soren> I saw sabdfl active in #launchpad less than 10 minutes ago.
<sabdfl> evening all
<soren> Hi, Mark.
<mjg59> Ok. Missing Scott and mdz. Anyone seen them this evening?
<sabdfl> mdz is around, saw him online earlier
<soren> Isn't he one of those screen+irssi kind of people who's always online?
<sabdfl> (17:04:52) sabdfl: howdy mdz
<sabdfl> (17:05:03) mdz: morning
<sabdfl> that's a hell of an irssi trick :-)
<mjg59> Is he on west coast time right now?
<sabdfl> yes
<mjg59> Ok, so lunchish
<soren> Oh, ok.
<ogra> thats a trivial script :)
<mdz> sabdfl: I'm here
<mdz> just finished lunch
<sabdfl> lucky man i'm starving
<mjg59> Ok, so we're quorate
<mdz> #startmeeting
<sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<mdz> MootBot: hello?
<sabdfl> ah, that's why soren was pinging ;-)
<soren> :)
<mjg59> Hm. Go ahead without mootbot?
<mdz> yes, just pulling up soren's application
<mdz> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-September/000360.html
<soren> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-September/000371.html
<mjg59> Hm. Shall we try to grab pitti and kees?
<mdz> thanks
<soren> kees is around.
<soren> Hang on.
<mdz> sponsor feedback was received from pitti, kees and ScottK
<soren> That's not right.
<soren> ScottK is not -core-dev.
* ScottK commented, but not as a sponsor. 
<mdz> oh, I see
<soren> ScottK: Thanks though :)
<mdz> soren: so you've had a lot more time to spend on Ubuntu recently, by virtue of joining the Canonical team
<ScottK> You're welcome.  You've been a lot of help to me.
<soren> mdz: Sure have.
<mdz> soren: how has that changed your views on Ubuntu?  do you have a different perspective on how the project works?
<soren> mdz: Than before joining Canonical? Not much. I've gotten more aware of deadlines and such, though.
<soren> I've always had a good feeling of the distro as a whole, I think.
<sabdfl> do you have any new insights on the interaction of Canonical and volunteer contributors?
<keescook> quick note from me: I've sponsored a few of soren's main uploads, and they've always looked good to me.  he's actually taught me a few things about some of the server packages in main.  :)
<soren> sabdfl: It's certainly been interesting to get a first hand view of the inside of "the mother ship".
<mdz> soren: it's difficult to know how things look to part-time contributors when living and breathing Ubuntu as a day job.  is there anything you've learned from this experience that you think would help MOTUs and prospective MOTUs to contribute more easily to Ubuntu?
<soren> mdz: Well, as part of the day-to-day environment and also as part of the motu-uvf team, it's getting more and more obvious how we view it differently.
<soren> When you only have so much time to spend on Ubuntu, it can be hard to see the big picture and only focus on the few packages you have time to worry about.
<sabdfl> i need to commute to a home network. +1 from me for soren, on the back of excellent feedback from MC and all who commented, I'll be back online within 15 I hope for trackerd discussion
<soren> I haven't spent a lot of time reflecting upon that, though.
<soren> sabdfl: \o/ Thanks for that!
* ogra cheers for soren 
<mdz> sabdfl: I don't have anything further to say about tracker; the email thread is...
<mjg59> soren: How do you feel we're doing on the server?
<soren> I think it might be a good idea to more thoroughly communicate what the purpose of the different slots in the development cycle is for.
<soren> mjg59: Not good enough :)
<mjg59> soren: Heh. Ok, can you expand on that?
<soren> mjg59: It's interesting, really:
<mdz> soren: we want it to be easy to contribute to Ubuntu in simple ways, like maintaining a few packages, and yet it's essential that that work be in harmony with the overall movement of the project, especially releases.  I'm wondering if there's anything you think we can do to improve that, in terms of communication or documentation for example
<soren> mjg59: We're sometimese viewed as too much of a desktop OS, while the distro we're based upon has the exact opposite problem, and in the server area we really differ very little from Debian.
<mdz> soren: pitti has been working just this past week on cleaning up exactly that, and I think the current documentation is miles ahead
<soren> mjg59: There's definitely some work to be done to change that perception.
<mjg59> soren: So it's mostly a perception problem, and not a technological one?
<mdz> (different phases of development)
<soren> mdz: Agreed. The MOTU team and especially the hopefuls seem to feel UVF as a hindrance in some way.
<soren> mdz: Like an annoying, pointless obstacle.
<soren> Sorry, that came out wrong.
<soren> Not all, certainly.
<soren> "some of".
<soren> But I totally understand where it's coming from. I shared that feeling when I was "only" working on Ubuntu on a volunteer basis.
<soren> mjg59: Well, Debian has a pretty decent reputation on servers. We really ought to have inherited that.
<mdz> soren: do you think it is a practical problem or one of perception?
<mjg59> How much of that is because universe tends to be less integrated to begin with?
<soren> mdz: Both, but mostly perception.
<soren> mjg59: Good question.
<soren> mjg59: ...for which I don't have a good answer :)
<mdz> it's a difficult thing to generalize whether an upstream release, with potentially a huge amount of new code and bugs, is appropriate for inclusion in Ubuntu, and UVF is one primitive way in which we try to assess that.  Do you think we could change it to be less burdensome without sacrificing its effectiveness?
<mjg59> In main, it's pretty clear that we have UVF to concentrate on stability and integration for the remainder of the cycle
<soren> mjg59: Definitely.
<soren> mdz: Hm... I'm not sure.
<mjg59> I guess there's an argument that the integration aspect of that is less applicable to universe
<soren> mdz: The motu-uvf team is a good idea. It keeps the worst crack out, surely. :)
<mdz> mjg59: perhaps somewhat...I don't want to promote an image of universe as a set of packages which don't matter as much
<mdz> mjg59: because that downplays the valuable work that developers put into it
<soren> mdz: ...but someone made the point earlier on that any motu ought to be able to make the call that motu-uvf does.
<soren> Some of it stems from the fact that universe is "not supported", so it doesn't matter if it doesn't really work.
<soren> Allegedly, of course.
<mdz> what inevitably happens without such a limitation is that someone uploads something at the last minute, which is broken, and results in either releasing with a broken package, or a big headache for the release managers, archive admins and others to try to push a last-minute fix through
<soren> Because most of our millions of users don't care where it comes from. If a package in universe doesn't work, Ubuntu doesn't work.
<mdz> yes, there's something to be said for user expectations here
<mdz> our policies for maintenance and support are far beyond what most desktop users expect
<mdz> folks coming from the Windows world are used to getting their applications on CD or by download from a website, and never getting updates
<soren> Interesting point.
<mdz> in which case the distinction between main and universe doesn't matter much to them
<mdz> I certainly use plenty of software from universe, because it meets my needs and doesn't put me at significant risk
<soren> Sure.
<soren> Are you suggesting we don't provide 18 months of support for non-lts releases?
<mdz> not at all
<soren> If it's way beyond what "the random users" expect, and we expect the "corporate users" to use LTS's anyway, it seems like a lot of work for little gain.
<mdz> only agreeing that the distinction between main and universe is artificial for a certain (common) class of desktop users
<soren> Oh, right.
<mdz> consider ubuntu-backports
<mdz> people who use backports are most interested in having fresh applications
<mjg59> soren: How well is main serving our server users? Are most of them ending up using universe as well?
<mdz> they accept the tradeoff in maintenance and support
<soren> mjg59: Currently, yes.
<soren> mjg59: We're reevaluating a lot of software to find out if it should be promoted.
<mjg59> soren: Do you feel that that's something that needs changing?
<soren> mjg59: Yes, indeed.
<mdz> mjg59: even if they use packages from universe, I think the distinction is much more relevant to them, since they need to be informed about which software will receive security updates
<soren> mjg59: I realise it puts more strain on the security team (and the rest of us, too), but there's a lot of really useful software in universe that really deserves proper support.
<mjg59> I think that's pretty inevitable, yes
<mdz> sure, but that's one area where a distinction needs to be drawn between Canonical and Ubuntu
<soren> mjg59: I think it scales fairly well, though.
<mdz> in large part, it's Canonical who backs the commitment to security updates by providing dedicated resources
<mdz> and so those decisions need to be made with a view to what's best for Canonical and its customers, more than the inherent merit of the software
<soren> mdz: Of course.
<mjg59> I agree that we're failing to communicate the different levels of support. People enable universe and then never think about it again.
<soren> mdz: My point just is that there's a lot of really useful software in universe that Canonical's paying customers would like to use.
<soren> mdz: ...but if they're not properly supported, they might go elsewhere.
<mdz> yes, there are some specific cases where we should make adjustments on that basis
<mdz> but I'm wary of saying that software "deserves" support and therefore should be promoted to main
<soren> Right. Bad choice of words.
<soren> I mean that it's software that's in a good enough shape to not cause too much of a burden and also useful enough to make a difference to paying customers.
<mdz> mjg59: no more questions from me, say when
<mjg59> soren: So, arguably the two main issues facing us on the server are (1) people not taking Ubuntu sufficiently seriously, and (2) people not understanding the differing support levels, and this reflecting badly on the distribution as a whole?
<soren> mjg59: No, our main issue, i think, is hardware support in LTS releases.
<soren> mjg59: That's really what most people point out to me as our major shortcoming.
<mjg59> Ok. How can we deal with that?
<soren> mjg59: Well, the obvious solution is more kernel developers.
<soren> However..
<mjg59> Heh
<soren> It would be much more interesting to get to the point where we can make the hardware vendors do it themselves.
<mjg59> Hardware vendors are moving towards not being interested in doing so
<mjg59> Intel have been making it pretty clear that they're not planning to
<soren> Really? Becuase we're too good at it without them?
<mdz> I do not think that a shortage of kernel developers is the main issue.  they can't do much about enabling arbitrary hardware without access to it, and can't efficiently do testing across a wide range of platforms
<mjg59> No, because they end up with a large set of develoeprs doing nothing but backports, with most of the benefit going to the Linux vendors rather than them
<mjg59> Though I suspect backporting hardware support is a discussion better suited to Boston than here...
<soren> Agreed.
<soren> mdz: That's also true.. It's a tough problem to tackle.
<mdz> the only reasonable long-term solution to this problem is to enable portable (across Linux versions) drivers to be written
<soren> I'm not sure that will happen anytime soon.
<soren> AFAIK the kernel developers don't believe much in "API stability at all cost".
<mjg59> The only way that's likely to happen is if the distributors cooperate on a porting layer
<mjg59> It's unlikely to change upstream
<mdz> I suppose it's also possible that Linux will one day stop regressing massively, and allow new kernels to be provided for older releases
<soren> Ironic, really.
<mdz> but I think portable drivers are more likely
<soren> Since a considerable percentage of kernel developers (ie. upstream) work for distributors.
<mdz> (as unfortunate as the current opinions upstream may be)
<mdz> I don't know whether any of the current userspace driver work makes this more feasible
<soren> I wouldn't know.
<soren> I try to steer clear of anything in the kernel that deals directly with hardware. :)
<soren> It's scary.
<mdz> and we're getting a bit off-topic for the meeting
<ogra> yeah, what about soren :)
<soren> Oh, right.
<mdz> mjg59: any other questions regarding soren's application?
<mjg59> No, I think I'm happy now
<soren> Wow.
<mjg59> Vote?
<mdz> ok, votes then
<mjg59> +1 from me, packaging skills sound good and has a solid understanding of where we are and where we want to be in the server market
<mdz> <sabdfl> i need to commute to a home network. +1 from me for soren, on the back of excellent feedback from MC and all who commented,
<mdz> +1, demonstrated understanding of project policies and rationale, positive feedback from core sponsors and MOTU
<mdz> soren: congratulations and welcome
* ogra cheers
<soren> \o/
<soren> Woot!
<ogra> welcome soren :)
<soren> mdz: Thanks!
<mdz> I've updated Launchpad
<mdz> mjg59: do you know what sabdfl was talking about regarding tracker?  I'm not aware of any decision before the TB or a need for discussion outside the ongoing email thread with TB, Ubuntu developers and upstream represented
<ScottK> soren: Congratulations.
<soren> mdz: He's back now.
<soren> mdz: He just joined #u-d
<soren> ScottK: Thanks!
<mjg59> No, I wasn't aware of any further tracker discussion being scheduled
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o mdz]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o mdz]  by ChanServ
<sabdfl> hey
<mjg59> sabdfl: Good timing
<mdz> sabdfl: you mentioned something about tracker?
* sabdfl needs to file a bug about suspend/resume on X60 w/ gutsy
<sabdfl> first, a story
<sabdfl> it took me a while to find a cab
<mdz> sabdfl: you may or may not be aware, we discussed it is some detail at the previous TB meeting
<sabdfl> when i climbed into it, he had a screen in there, where they usually show adverts and comedy
<sabdfl> his said:
<sabdfl> ERROR
<sabdfl> Corrupt file
<sabdfl> \WINDOWS\SYSTEM\etc etc
<sabdfl> mdz: want to discuss today's email exchange re tracker here, or are you happy with the decision options?
<mdz> sabdfl: I'm satisfied with the direction of the conversation, and it (unlike this meeting) includes representatives from upstream and the Ubuntu kernel team
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> nothing more from me then
<mdz> sabdfl: when we discussed it at the last meeting, we presented our concerns to upstream and interested developers
<mdz> upstream acknowledged our specific concerns, and was confident they would be resolved in time
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> are they excited to have their bits in the spotlight?
<mdz> we accepted this, with the proviso that if things didn't go according to plan, tracker could be trivially disabled by default with a gconf key
<mdz> I wouldn't want to speak on their behalf, but they do urge us to stick with it and believe it is a good option for us and for our users
<sabdfl> ok
<mdz> the kernel issue seems to be the main one at this point
<sabdfl> that's me then
<mdz> because we don't know the cause yet
<mdz> ok, that's it for agenda then.  is there any other business?
<mdz> ok, adjourned then.  thanks, all
<sabdfl> thanks, and good night
<sladen> mdz: see the Red Hat kernel ABI packaging stuff;  the RH people doing that are in Boston
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 12:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 15:00 UTC: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu Artwork Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 12:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 15:00 UTC: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-26
<kraut> moin
<ziroday> @schedule Singapore
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Singapore: 27 Sep 04:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 20:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 23:00: Community Council meeting | 03 Oct 00:00: Kernel Team | 03 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 07 Oct 01:00: Xubuntu Developers
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 26 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 14:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 17:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 19:00: Xubuntu Developers
<dthacker> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 26 2007, 13:12:08 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 6 hours 47 minutes
<dthacker> @schedule Chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 26 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 07:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 10:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 11:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 12:00: Xubuntu Developers
<bryce_> morning
* calc here
<calc> there is a meeting here right now, correct?
<evand> indeed
<evand> or so says the email
<calc> cjwatson: wake up ;)
<cjwatson> hello, sorry I'm a bit late
<seb128> ups, sorry I was on the wrong chan
<ArneGoetje> hi all
<calc> heh
<cjwatson> (my stepson's cello lesson is just before this so travel is always rushed)
<cjwatson> seb128: could you send your activity report?
<seb128> cjwatson: sure, sorry I forgot it was one day earlier now
<cjwatson> ok, I see no agenda items at the moment, so unless anyone has anything, the agenda is the beta release :)
* calc didn't think cjwatson was old enough to have a stepson that could play an instrument
* cjwatson fetches the zimmer frame
<cjwatson> slangasek is not here yet
<doko> hmm, he was still awake this morning (UTC) ...
<cjwatson> yeah, he was planning to make this AFAIK
<cjwatson> has everyone here registered on iso.qa.stgraber.org for ISO testing work?
<evand> yes
<seb128> yes
<ArneGoetje> yes
<slangasek> (hmm, are we in here today?)
<doko> doing ...
<cjwatson> slangasek: yes, we alternate
* cjwatson re-pastes for Steve
<cjwatson> 16:03 <cjwatson> ok, I see no agenda items at the moment, so unless anyone has anything, the agenda is the beta release :)
<cjwatson> 16:05 <cjwatson> has everyone here registered on iso.qa.stgraber.org for ISO testing work?
<slangasek> yes :)
<cjwatson> at the moment, my understanding of the status is that we have probably-final images and are working our way through a test cycle
<calc> i have a question about the iso tracker once it is the right time
<bryce_> yep (I think)
<cjwatson> there are most definitely known bugs
<cjwatson> after we've got a plausible distance through a test cycle, we'll assess them
<cjwatson> calc: go ahead
<calc> ubuntu alternate amd64 lists like 14 bug icons but if you drill down you only see one bug
<calc> any idea about what causes that?
<cjwatson> calc: I think that's just confusing table display; the icons are actually attached to i386
<asac> hi
<cjwatson> if you hover over the row, the background colour changes, which helps to see
<calc> cjwatson: oh ok
<cjwatson> the bug colours are a touch random
<cjwatson> (as in, submitter-determined)
<cjwatson> so they still need to be assessed by hand
<pitti> hi! sorry, missed cjwatson's ping for some minutes
<cjwatson> pitti: could you give us a quick rundown of beta status, including where help is currently needed?
<cjwatson> slangasek: you too though I expect you're still catching up on the night
<pitti> things are looking quite well so far for ubuntu/kubuntu, and I expect that those images will be final (xubuntu, too)
<pitti> edubuntu alternates need urgent testing, since they were rebuilt recently for high-prio fixes
<pitti> also, we need a cooperative effort to brush up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Beta
<ogra> i'm running a virtualbox install atm ... but its darn slow
<pitti> I think I have a reasonable skeleton now, but it could use some more love
<pitti> and I need someone with a feisty vmware/real installation to verify bug #127263
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127263 in update-manager "update-manager cannot find meta-release info" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127263
<ogra> there is this gnome feature to leave messages on a locked screensaver session ... should we add that ?
<pitti> i. e. we need to get the feisty-proposed u-m to -updates ASAP, so that people who upgrade tomorrow have a much better chance to succeed
<ogra> (do we list new upstream featres here ?)
<pitti> and we do not have wiki pages for server/kubuntu/edubuntu yet
<bryce_> pitti, is Caveats where we put stuff that no longer works (e.g. xinerama with certain drivers now using xrandr 1.2)
<pitti> the one major issue I see on the desktop CDs so far are unionfs crashes
<doko> pitti: the family name of your girlfriend^Wwife seems to be wrong in the screenshot ;)
<pitti> but nothing we can do about them any more, I figure
<pitti> doko: yep, I noticed :)
<cjwatson> bryce_: that sounds useful, though written in user-friendly language of course
<evand> pitti: unionfs crashes still?
<Riddell> pitti: Kubuntu has one (it just doesn't have anything much on it yet)
<cjwatson> pitti: please get in touch with the kernel team about that ASAP
<evand> I thought that was fixed for good?
<pitti> bryce_: it's usually meant to mention high-impact bugs and their workarounds, so yes
<ogra> evand, see the isotracker
<bryce_> also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/ReleaseNotes
<cjwatson> this is the first time I've heard confirmation that that's still outstanding
<ogra> evand, the bugs are linked there
<evand> ogra: thanks
<pitti> cjwatson: different types of crashes, it got much better with the last versions, but I heard various reports still
<ogra> i didnt see any on edubuntu though
<pitti> ogra: stgraber had a few
<ogra> yeah, heard that
<pitti> they were perfect for me, too
<cjwatson> it's clearly a set of races so won't happen to everyone
<cjwatson> it could easily depend on e.g. CD read speed
<pitti> it's a level we can live with for beta, I think
<bryce_> yeah so I'll describe it as "New dynamic screen configuration", etc.
<cjwatson> the other major thing I want to talk about is beta bugs
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-7.10-beta
<dholbach> cjwatson: asac's offline, he just called me
<pitti> bryce_: there's already a displayconfig-gtk section, feel free to brush up the language, and maybe make the screenshot smaller if possible
<cjwatson> there are a *lot* of them, most of which are clearly not going to be fixed now
<dholbach> he tries to be back soon
<cjwatson> dholbach: thanks
<pitti> right
<dholbach> de rien
<pitti> this list can be pretty much considered as 'stuff we want to fix for final'
<cjwatson> of course those now need to be targeted for rc (there's an ubuntu-7.10-rc milestone now)
<bryce_> pitti, will do; unfortunately displayconfig-gtk only works for the old xinerama case (glatzor will be working on xrandr'ing it for hardy)
<pitti> so far I did not see any bug which would warrant stalling the beta release
<cjwatson> but if there is anything in that list which really is beta-critical that you know about, you need to speak up *now*
<cjwatson> I'm sure the release team would appreciate it if you would retarget your own bugs to -rc as necessary, to save them having to go through all couple of hundred of them
<pitti> ogra: messages on screensaver> not 'visible' enough for the wiki page, I think
<asac_> cjwatson: is there a rc target available now in malone?
<cjwatson> for the next few weeks, we all need to be concentrating on squashing that bug list, unless you have anything that's explicitly higher priority
<cjwatson> asac_: yes, ubuntu-7.10-rc
<pitti> asac_: yes
<ogra> pitti, ok
<cjwatson> I created it the other day
<cjwatson> I would like to ask that all of you list the status of your release-critical bugs in your activity reports, and any bugs you've fixed recently
<cjwatson> s/any bugs/any RC bugs/
<slangasek> pitti seems to have covered the status pretty well; barring any OMG bugs, the main tasks remaining between now and the release are the ISO testing to make sure we find any OMG bugs that are out there, and getting the wiki documentation into shape (release notes, feisty upgrade documentation)
<slangasek> sorry, between now and the beta release that is
<cjwatson> this is (a) to make sure we all think about them once a week and defer anything that's not really critical :-) (b) so that we have a good e-mail summary without having to click through all the bugs
<pitti> oh, just one thing:
<pitti> if you want feedback from ~ubuntu-release, please make sure that this team is subscribed
<pitti> I read those bugs with high priority, and so is slangasek, I think
<slangasek> yes
<pitti> I cannot poll through all of them every day to search for questions
<cjwatson> if you need to ask the release team questions in real time, #ubuntu-release is open (though we'd like it to be mostly release coordination)
<pitti> together, slangasek and I provide pretty much 24/7 online coverage, so you should get answers very quickly at any time
<pitti> well, 24/5 at any rate
<slangasek> :)
<pitti> and some email on the weekend :)
<cjwatson> slangasek mentioned the release notes
<pitti> slangasek: did you get feedback from Matt and ubuntu-doc@ already?
<cjwatson> as pitti said, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Beta is there
<slangasek> pitti: no, none
<cjwatson> but please take a look at it and fill in anything you know about
<slangasek> but if mdz is on PDT right now, I wouldn't expect any from him yet
<cjwatson> slangasek: apparently I was slightly out of date, and he's just got back to London
<slangasek> ok
<doko> how's cd space on the i386/amd64 images, would it still be possible to replace gij with icedtea at this point?
<cjwatson> when I spoke to him a few hours ago he was planning to head into the office soon
<cjwatson> doko: I hope that's post-beta?
<Riddell> doko: is icedtea in the archive?
<doko> cjwatson: post-beta, sure
<pitti> doko: alternates: absolutely overflown, we already cut off some good flesh to make room for the ever-growing OO.o
<doko> Riddell: no, see the URL in my emails
<pitti> doko: desktops are pretty much full
<Riddell> right
<pitti> doko: what's the size impact?
<doko> +15mb
<cjwatson> calc: any time you can spare from bug fixing to cut down OO.o's size further would be appreciated
<Riddell> erk
<pitti> the one in unapproved should cut down size by some 5 MB
<calc> cjwatson: will do my best
<pitti> but it was too risky to let it through for beta
<calc> i'll be getting a final oo.o into gutsy probably around friday once i get the translations from carlos
<doko> could we do a duplicates analysis for the CD to look for some low hanging fruit?
<pitti> but once this version hits, I need to add back ooo-base, so that the net effect is zero
<calc> or hopefully final anyway
<cjwatson> calc: final upstream, but you probably ought to have something to do for the next couple of weeks until release :-)
<calc> cjwatson: true :)
<pitti> unless we decide to permanently install only a subset of OO.o by default, of course
<cjwatson> doko: I think that would be a good idea; would you do a quick initial pass?
<calc> cjwatson: meaning hopefully final as in i won't find any more major bugs ;)
<cjwatson> and we can see who needs to pick up the rest
<calc> cjwatson: then i could work on testing other rc bugs etc
<pitti> doko: there might be something to be cut off from changelogs
<cjwatson> doko: (as in a quick report, not all the work of fixing it)
<mdz> slangasek: I'm back on BST
<pitti> what would icedtea give us feature-wise?
<pitti> 15 MB is quite a high price to pay
<calc> we could go to 90min cds ;)
<slangasek> mdz: noted, cheers
<doko> cjwatson: ok, will prepare that this week. can I trust the link count on the live CD?
<pitti> and right now we basically don't ship any translations at all, whick sucks, too
<doko> pitti: working OOo-Base
<pitti> doko: (NB that alternates are more pressing)
<cjwatson> doko: hmm, I'm not certain
<pitti> doko: oh, doesn't it ATM?
<cjwatson> it should be straightforward to test
<mdz> slangasek: I have your email.  usually the most efficient way to do this is to put your draft into the wiki, where others can make minor tweaks without a round trip to you
<doko> ohh, and working java plugin for the browser
<calc> doko: it seems to more or less work now, but would work more reliably with icedtea, yea
<doko> calc: even the form wizard?
<calc> pitti: icedtea is the free version of sun java
<calc> doko: i believe so last i looked at it
* calc verifies he doesn't happen to have icedtea installed
<doko> cjwatson, pitti: for the duplicates scan: could you just run this before creating the live CD image?
<pitti> hm, would it be possible to drop -base from the default install in a sane way, so that installing it will pull icedtea and friends from the network sources?
<cjwatson> doko: yes, that could be done; an upload of the livecd-rootfs package would be enough to arrange that, and can be done by anyone in core-dev
<pitti> doko: that won't help us for alternates, though, right?
<cjwatson> pitti: the result ought to be close enough
<cjwatson> it doesn't need to be 100% accurate
<doko> pitti: the results should be the same
<pitti> ah, just for identifying, not for actually merging them
<calc> doko: yea base form wizard works for me, for whatever reason, it didn't work for me in the past (several months ago) though anyway
<pitti> right
<cjwatson> pitti: yes, uploads would be needed to symlink them together
<slangasek> mdz: ok, plain text dumped into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/BetaAnnouncement
<cjwatson> ok, if everyone understands what the priorities are for beta and for the next few weeks, is there any other business?
<bryce_> bugz bugz bugz :-)
<pitti> let's rock da house
<doko> do uploads to gutsy need approvals, or should we peer-review things before they are uploaded?
<pitti> post-beta we are in normal FF state again
<pitti> but of course you should be extra careful now
<pitti> we'll have a considerate user base after beta
<pitti> considerable, even
<cjwatson> and possibly inconsiderate :-)
<pitti> Inglisch is hard
<mdz> slangasek: oop, too late, I already replied with comments
<pitti> so, peer-reviews are a good idea when you can afford them
<slangasek> mdz: fine :)
<pitti> or using PPAs for testing bigger changes
<cjwatson> ok, that's a wrap then, thanks all
<seb128> thanks cjwatson
<cjwatson> go forth and fix bugs
<pitti> thanks all
<cjwatson> pitti: thanks for stepping by
<pitti> you're welcome
* pitti hugs the entire team
<pitti> GO UBUNTU GO!
* ogra cheers for pitti
<asac> thanks
<evand> thanks
<ogra> thanks for all the nice RM work
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<slangasek> thanks
<dholbach> ROCK
<slangasek> mdz: supposing we are the first to ship with gnash (I don't know the answer to that yet), how should that be phrased?
<ogra> we're providing the latest leading technology of free flash support ?
<slangasek> we could presumably say that even if we weren't first :)
<mc44> "First!"
<cjwatson> slangasek: for compiz, something involving the words "desktop effects" would be good in the early para
<mdz> slangasek: maybe get ideas from canonical marketing or the marketing team for the language; the message should be that we are putting the best open source software in the hands of our users, which for the first time includes Flash functionality
<slangasek> ok
<mdz> slangasek: the fact that it works on amd64 is of particular interest, since Adobe's doesn't
<slangasek> cjwatson: mdz's suggested remedy was "features a cutting-edge graphical experience based on the Compiz compositing window manager", "desktop effects" still needed?
<cjwatson> I'm definitely not keen on that text for presentation to people who have no idea what a window manager is
<cjwatson> "features a cutting-edge graphical experience with composited desktop effects" perhaps?
<cjwatson> "composited" is at least jargon in other fields as well
<cjwatson> still sets off my bullshit-o-meter something chronic :)
<slangasek> leaving out the name "Compiz" there?
<cjwatson> I think it's good to mention Compiz somewhere so that that project feels credited
<mdz> agreed
<cjwatson> but not in the first paragraph
<slangasek> ok, it is mentioned below
<cjwatson> the feature is "desktop effects", Compiz is the implementation of it
* ogra waves
<juliux> hi ogra
<stgraber> hi
<sbalneav> Hey!  Meeting now?
<RichEd> hi ...
<RichEd> let's kick off then ...
<RichEd> ogra: technical
<ogra> well
<ogra> beta is tomorrow
<ogra> the isos were in a very bad condition when beta freeze came into effect
<ogra> due to various breakages they couldnt be tested fro quite some time either
<ogra> so since monday i'm whilrling to get them in shape ....
<ogra> big kudos and a hug from everyone to pitti, he helped a lot on the archive/iso building side as release manager
* nixternal notes I downloaded iso's yesterday for every *buntu (desktop) and each one locked at the same spot during the loading
<ogra> moodle was added to the CD
<ogra> sadly its to late for proper installer integration
<sbalneav> Yay for moodle
* RichEd joins the moodle cheer
<ogra> it asks way to many questions and actually breaks the install completely
<ogra> i had to take it out of the install again
<ogra> but we ship it on the CD and will have a wikipage with install instructions for gutsy
<sbalneav> Hey, it's a start.
<sbalneav> We'll nail it next time.
<ogra> in hardy we can then work out a proper perseed file for it and have it only ask one or two questions (instead of 10)
<RichEd> ogra: at least it is an "official app" ... gives them and us credibility
<ogra> the CD were so oversized that all remaining edu apps had to move to addon
<ogra> so we ship a pretty spare desktop on the server CD now
<ogra> *sparse
<ogra> the ltsp installer integration is aprantly completely broken ... it worked fine in my test environment but i had no chance to test it in the real installer environment until beta freeze was there
<sbalneav> Should we basically say that it's a 2 cd server set?
<ogra> it took me the last 36h to get all the issues sorted in a way that at least the installer finishes
<ogra> sbalneav, thast what we say already
* ogra looks for LaserJock
<ogra> hmm, he wanted to be here
<RichEd> ogra: 2 cds for server and apps ... 1 cd for just the server ... no ?
<sbalneav> Well, no, it's more like "The server cd, and the addon cd"
<ogra> laserjock wanted to suggest renaming of the addon CDs
<sbalneav> which in my opinion might be confusing to some.
<RichEd> if someone wanted e.g  just a moodle resource server, they'd just go with 1CD ?
<ogra> i dont really agree with him here, since addon might need dependencies from the server CD  we shouldnt suggest people to install it anywhere else than on a edubuntu-desktop
<ogra> so they need to be tied together very closely by naming imho
<ogra> RichEd, yes, CD1 will have everything you need for a moodle server
<ogra> for a plain moodle server, pick "install a commandline system" in the CD menu and run apt-get install moodle postgresql apache-mpm-prefork on that system while CD is in the tray
<RichEd> was just a comment re sbalneav comment ... as an example that it is a 1CD server at times ... not a 2CD set for all requirements
<ogra> (thats actually all you need)
<ogra> 2CD is neededfor alleducational desktop stuff
* ogra glares at his spacebar
<ogra> we'll hopefully have an option for "moodle server" as well as "central auth server" in hardy
<ogra> so CD1 wont exclusively be an ltsp or edubuntu cd anymore but have a bunch of other customized server stuff
<ogra> (which doesnt mean we'll not have ltsp ;) but it will only be one option )
<ogra> so all in all this iso is the worst crap i've ever released for edubuntu
<stgraber> hmm, I'm not sure that this network problem is really edubuntu related, then the only remaining problem is the ssh known_hosts
<ogra> i'm pretty mortified about that thing and hope i find the time to get at least the worst stuff fixed for final
<ogra> which we just solved in #edubuntu :)
<ogra> pitti just informed me that we likely wont have dvds either
<ogra> due to oversizedness
* ogra wonders if he can make next  week 14 days long to have enough time for all that stuff
<ogra> anyway, thats my report
<ogra> looking ad ... hardly getting better due to missing time
<ogra> s/ad/bad/
<sbalneav> Anything I can help with?
<ogra> not really, mainly installer stuff
<ogra> for testing i can always need help :)
<sbalneav> I, of course, will help with testing once we get some images.
<ogra> well, the current ones are "fine"
* ogra dosnt know how to make bold qoute marks in IRC
<ogra> read them as extra bold
<ogra> well, beyond that i'm working on a gutsy classmate image from next week on
<ogra> now that we have a working -desktop CD i can base that on
<ogra> -desktop isnt affected by all the above btw and looks good
<sbalneav> cool
<sbalneav> *bold*?
<sbalneav> Works in irssi :)
<ogra> *bold*
<ogra> not here
<ogra> anyway, sorry for being so quite but i'm discuzssing bugs in other channels
<ogra> ok, thats all for tech for now ...
<ogra> RichEd, anything from your side ?
<RichEd> not very much at the moment ...
<RichEd> getting the beta out is the main priority though ...
<RichEd> no pips1 for community / web sites ...
<RichEd> any other items from your side ogra ?
<RichEd> documetation ?
<RichEd> artwork ?
<RichEd> documentation rather
<ogra> documentation is done thanks to sbalneav
* RichEd cheers again for sbalneav's doc work
<ogra> edubuntu-docs is in and has the handbook
<ogra> due to a breakage in yelp (i was told mdke would work on it) it doesnt show up anywhere
<ogra> you find it if you search it though
* sbalneav takes a bow
* RichEd hands sbalneav an arrow ... and steps back
<sbalneav> Who's putting the apple on their head? :)
* ogra puts an apple on his head
* sbalneav 's hand shakes uncontrollably
<sbalneav> hooooold stiiiiiillllll......
* RichEd conducts the orchestra for William Tell's overture
<sbalneav> twang
<ogra> doesnt matter, my day cant get worse
<sbalneav> lol
<RichEd> well do we have any other matters, or else let's free both of you up for some fixing & tweaking
* ogra actually needs an hour of sleep or so now that the isos are roughly installing
<sbalneav> Have a snooze
<ogra> RichEd, you could ask jill for a widescreen pic
<ogra> just remembered that ...
* RichEd remembered twice and forgot twice already myself
<RichEd> will send a mail right now
<ogra> having something i dont have to squeeze and mangle for the classmate would be fine
<ogra> no idea what size we need though
<ogra> 1280x800should be fine i think
<ogra> sad, highvoltage isnt around
<ogra> he blogged about jill and the new wallpaper :)
<RichEd> i'll ask her ... should be an interesting exercise to change an existing one into the wider screen ratio
<RichEd> slight design challenge ...
<ogra> its not mandatory ... a nice to have ...
<ogra> but would be cool to have :)
<RichEd> i'll ask her ... she seems keen ... and it will look good for the classmate demos
<RichEd> well let's bring out the gong ...
<RichEd> edubuntu meeting going ONCE ?
<ogra> twice
<ogra> adjourned ?
<RichEd> done ...
<RichEd> thanks all
<ogra> :)
<Meshezabeel> thanks for all your hard work everyone! :)
<RichEd> and a + each for ogra, sbalneav and stgraber
<ogra> :)
<ogra> Meshezabeel, thanks for attending :)
<stgraber> :)
<b4ckd00r_chr1s> Ex-chat
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Sep 12:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 15:00 UTC: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-27
<gnomefreak> ill deal with it more in dtail whne i get hone/
<ziroday> @schedule Singapore
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Singapore: 27 Sep 20:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 23:00: Community Council meeting | 03 Oct 00:00: Kernel Team | 03 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 07 Oct 01:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 20:00: Forum Council
<ziroday> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 27 2007, 11:42:53 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 17 minutes
<bordy> Ah thats better. Mornin folks!
<ziroday> Evening
<pitti> Hi
<Keybuk> hiya
<iwj> Hello.
* mvo waves
<pitti> apology in advance; we are in the midst of the final Beta release steps, so please mention "pitti" if you need an answer quickly
<Riddell> hi
<Mithrandir> morning
<Keybuk> kwwii, MacSlow: here?
<kwwii> yepp
<MacSlow> sure
<MacSlow> sorry was on the loo before the meeting :)
<Keybuk> lol
<Keybuk> no problem
<Keybuk> let's get going then
<Keybuk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:05. The chair is Keybuk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
<Mithrandir> woo, it has its clock adjusted now!
<Mithrandir> amazing
<Keybuk> [TOPIC]  apturl support for PPAs
<MootBot> New Topic:  apturl support for PPAs
<Keybuk> mvo?
<MacSlow> what's the help-option for these commands?
<mvo> yes
<mvo> the Spec (and the current implementation) have a
<mvo>    apt+http://foo.bar?package=baz syntax that allows adding
<mvo>    new repositories if the repository is signed with a key
<mvo>    we have in the apt keyring. The use-case for this was PPA.
<mvo>    It turns out that PPAs are not signed currently and that it is
<mvo>    uncertain when they will and with what key. I would like to disable
<mvo>    this feature in apturl therefore for gutsy and come back to it when
<mvo>    the situation with the PPAs is more clear. Any objections?
<mvo> i may add that the feature is currently buggy and that I would prefer to disable it given that the main use-case is currently gone and that there are more things to attack
<pitti> mvo: did you see my q on the ML?
<pitti> ah, buggy in what way? that wasn't mentioned in your initial topic
<mvo> pitti: yes, you said its not worse than gdebi (I agree)
<pitti> I haven't seen the feature 'live' yet, I have to admin
<pitti> admit, even
<mvo> pitti: not well tested as there is notthing really to test against and probably not very useful as the spec requires signed repsoitores
<mvo> that make it currently a bit mood
<pitti> I see
<mvo> because the only default repositories in the apt keyring are archive.u.c and archive.canonical.com (the later is not enabled by default)
<mvo> the remainaing bit (easy way to install pkgs via: e.g. apt:2vcard) will remain of course
<pitti> mvo: what are the bugs why we should disable it?
<MacSlow> but isn't the PPA also meant for the broader community and 3rd-parties to have an easy mean to provide easy to install .deb for Ubuntu-users?
<pitti> but they are not signed, noone knows what's in them, so we shouldn't make it too easy to accidentally ruin your system with them
<mvo> pitti: the code that prevents unsigned repos currently just gives a huge warning, but let the user proceed , that needs to be fixed and it needs to be ensured that its properly rolled back. not a big deal, bu
<pitti> but that's independent from the reason why we should disable it now
<MacSlow> and also to help MOTUs a bit with packaging-work... I'm just wondering if the signing (with key in the offical key-ring) is meant to be mandatory
<mvo> but its something I would have to attend to
<pitti> mvo: I agree, that *is* a problem
<Keybuk> what does signing guarantee you in this case/
<mvo> given the main use-case is not ready I propose postponing it
<Keybuk> apt signing guarantees repository integrity
<Keybuk> not trustworthy code
<mvo> sure
<mvo> but we don't open the floodgates with it, only to a certain degree (launchpad)
<pitti> well, it guarantees that you don't get packages from people or projects for which you haven't made an educated decision to trust them
<pitti> I wouldn't like to install all PPAs out there
<MacSlow> but PPA will not allow binary-only packages... or will it?
<pitti> MacSlow: doesn't matter
<mvo> we have some control over LP and PPA, but none over externally hosted repos
<pitti> MacSlow: arbitrary source packages with buildds are fully enough to hijack your system :)
<mvo> at least we could stop bad stuff happening
<MacSlow> pitti, yeah... probably
<mvo> the idea was to have the ppa signing key in the whitelist for apturl (not enabled by default, but possible to add)
<Keybuk> pitti: anyone can have a PPA though?
<pitti> Keybuk: right, that's my point
<Mithrandir> if we open it for PPAs, signed or not, we might just as well open it to the world.
<Keybuk> pitti: so I don't see where the trust is
<pitti> Keybuk: I might decide to import mvo's gpg key into my apt keyring
<Keybuk> PPAs end up a bit like hotmail accounts
<MacSlow> btw... afaik SuSE
<pitti> Keybuk: so that I can use mvo's PPA with apturl, but not everyone's
<MacSlow> s buildservice allows nearly everything to be build... as long as it builds
<Keybuk> pitti: I thought the original PPA spec was to use a single key for them
<pitti> Keybuk: erm, I am reasoning under the assumption that PPAs are not signed with the Ubuntu key, but with the uploader's, of course
<Mithrandir> pitti: how would they be?
<pitti> Keybuk: eww; that would make them fairly useless
<Keybuk> pitti: I wouldn't get LP my gpg private key :p
<MacSlow> appearing to "picky" to the outside-world might shed a bad light on Ubuntu
<mvo> in what way it will be signed is unclear currently
<Mithrandir> LP doesn't (and can't) have my GPG private key.
<pitti> Keybuk: not my personal one, but certainly I'd create a 'ppa key', sign it with mine, and give it to LP
<Keybuk> simple fact is that if a user is determined to install something, they will go through whatever steps to install it they need to
<pitti> Keybuk: hm, it seems we have a more basic problem here then, which needs to be solved before we can even think about apturl
<iwj> When you add a PPA to your configuration you're deciding to trust it.  At that point the relevant key should be added.
<iwj> And when you take it out again it should be removed.
<pitti> Keybuk: right, but with apturl it gets so easy that you can do  it accidentally
<Keybuk> pitti: I don't agree that it should be hard
<iwj> And obviously PPAs ought to have a key per PPA.
<mvo> it would be the same amount of work as with gdebi (big warning + password entry)
<pitti> Keybuk: it should be hard enough so that you have to make an educated decision about it (not hard to discover)
<MacSlow> what about haveing a "rating system" for PPAs... like the main, universe, multiverse repos... to give uneducated users a kind of guideline regarding "trustworthyness"?
<pitti> mvo: warnings don't work with security
<Keybuk> pitti: the only thing I can think of is that when adding an apturl, it gets the public key for it automatically and shows you a "do you trust software signed by this key?" kind of dialog
<iwj> MacSlow: Who would decide ?  Anyone useful enough to decide that would never want all of the hideous politics.
<Keybuk> those are whack-a-mole dialogs though
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: and we've all seen how well they work in the windows world.
<mvo> pitti: right, its the "I want to get my work done" thing. but people will try to get their work done anyway and they may use bad scripts if we don't provide something better
<Mithrandir> it's a typical "do you want me to do what I just told you to?" dialog.
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: exactly; "I want this software, stop trying to tell me I don't" is the usual reaction
<pitti> mvo: right, so we have to make sure that we can create per-user trust in PPAs themselves
<pitti> signing *all* PPAs with the same GPG key is worse than not signing them at all
<Keybuk> users will jump any fence in the way of them installing the shiny app
<pitti> because it implies trust where no trust can be
<Keybuk> and will blame us for having the fence there in the first place
<iwj> Personally I think giving people the expectation that they should be trusting software obtained from URLs is a bad thing.
<pitti> Keybuk: better than blaming us for getting hacked without even knowing what they had done
<iwj> So I suppose I mean that I disapprove of the whole principle of apturl.
<Keybuk> pitti: they'll blame us anyway
<pitti> Keybuk: I agree
<Keybuk> look at all of the people who blame windows for being buggy due to the software that they have installed
<pitti> but at least for the right reason
<mvo> iwj: the trouble here is that people are used to it (think firefox extensions or tucows and stuff liket his)
<Mithrandir> pitti: it seems you think the signing of the Packages file implies any guarantee of quality.  I don't think it does, I only think it implies "this is what you intended to download", which a single key is fine for.
<iwj> The typical way to deal with these problems is, in the cases where we don't want the user to "just install it dammit" without thinking: make the UI where trust is extended separate, and make it impossible for a website to bring it up.
<pitti> Mithrandir: but contrary to PPAs, uploading to archive.u.c. is restricted to a small number of people which we established trust to
<Keybuk> iwj: so when you click the [Install]  button on the website, what would happen?
<iwj> Firefox extensions are different because there's at least some kind of quality control by mozilla on the autoinstallation site.
<iwj> Keybuk: There shouldn't be [Install]  buttons on websites.
<Keybuk> iwj: the autoinstall site is just one site
<Keybuk> anyone can add a firefox installer to their own
<iwj> Keybuk: Yes, and I think that's EBW too.
<Keybuk> firefox asks you whether you trust the site
<Keybuk> everyone clicks Yes without ever reading that dialog
<iwj> I'm swimming upstream on this one but we're just making a rod for our own backs.
<Keybuk> holy double metaphor!
<MacSlow> Keybuk, I read them... always...but click "Yes" anyway in the end :)
<iwj> When we're as popular as 'doze, all of our users will be having all of the same problems that 'doze users have now.
<Mithrandir> pitti: I don't see why that's relevant.  When you add a PPA key to your keyring, you're not saying "plz install everything you can find signed with this key", you're saying "I trust this key to provide packages which are as the author intended them".
<Keybuk> s/author/key holder/
<iwj> I don't disapprove of things like the codec installation, where an untrusted entity gets to trigger the installation of software which is trusted by us in some sense but happens not to be installed.
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: yes
<pitti> Keybuk: no, if ther is just a single key for all PPAa
<pitti> PPAs
<Keybuk> signing PPAs doesn't make much sense to me ...
<Keybuk> we sign the archive so that the software knows that the archive hasn't been tampered with
<iwj> Signing PPAs is obviously essential, surely ?
<Keybuk> (ie. versions or packages replaced with others)
<Mithrandir> signing PPAs is nice against MITM attacks, or if we ever end up having any kinds of mirrors.
<pitti> Mithrandir: for me it is a difference whether I take all packages from an organization I trust, or all packages from a random person I have never heard of
<Keybuk> PPAs are inherently "provide alternate versions of packages" archives
<iwj> Otherwise someone who decides they want some PPA (eg, the PPA's own uploaders!) can't even know they're getting the packages they meant.
<Mithrandir> pitti: I think that by extending your argument, we should use different keys for universe and main?
<Keybuk> pitti: if you don't trust them, don't add the url? :)
<pitti> Mithrandir: that's something we might consider, yes
<iwj> How about we take the extended discussion to email ?  I don't think we're going to get anywhere with all of these issues in this meeting.
<Mithrandir> pitti: if you think that's sensible, I see your argument, I just disagree with you.
<Keybuk> iwj: agree, we're not coming to any kind of consensus here
<iwj> In the meantime we need to make a decision about apturl and I would vote to disable it.
<MacSlow> iwj, sounds reasonable
<Keybuk> [VOTE]  disable apturl?
<pitti> Mithrandir: I'm just much less concerned about the main/universe difference than archive.u.c./random PPA
<MootBot> Please vote on:  disable apturl?.
<Keybuk> (use +1 to disable, -1 to keep)
<pitti> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 1 for, 0 against. Count is now 1
<Mithrandir> I think we should take the discussion to UDS, since it's not at all clear we're on common ground here in any way.
<iwj> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from iwj. 2 for, 0 against. Count is now 2
<mvo> iwj: you mean the "repostiroy add feature surely", not the general thing to be able to install package from our repositoreis via a click on a website?
<kwwii> 0
<Keybuk> -1
<MacSlow> +1
<MootBot> -1 received from Keybuk. 2 for, 1 against. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from MacSlow. 3 for, 1 against. Count is now 2
<Mithrandir> +0
<iwj> mvo: Yes, it's OK to be able to add a package from existing repos.
<mvo> ok, just wanted to clarify this :)
<Keybuk> #endvote
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 1 against. Total: 2
<iwj> We just mean the thing you wanted to disable :-).
<iwj> [ACTION]  iwj to start conversation on ubuntu-devel about automatic software installation etc.
<mvo> thanks everybody!
<Keybuk> mvo: disable the apt+http form for now, and we'll rediscuss at UDS
<iwj> Hrm, it won't even let me action myself.
<Keybuk> (so everyone who cares should watch out for it on the schedule and bring foam weaponry)
<pitti> and asbesto pants
<Keybuk> [ACTION]  iwj to start conversation on ubuntu-devel about automatic software installation etc.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  iwj to start conversation on ubuntu-devel about automatic software installation etc.
<MacSlow> :)
<Keybuk> iwj: yeah, we've asked for some changes
<DarkSun88> Hi all.
<Keybuk> [TOPIC]  buildds don't have debconf accept
<MootBot> New Topic:  buildds don't have debconf accept
<Riddell> someone please poke infinity
<Riddell> he's not responding to my pokes
<Keybuk> infinity has wandered off again
<Keybuk> he hasn't responded to mine or colin's either
<pitti> neither to my mails I sent a few days ago
<iwj> Are we sure he's OK ?
<pitti> is he on vac?
<Mithrandir> I was in touch with him yesterday
<Keybuk> in cases where you can't get hold of people for a sustained amount of time, and it's blocking your work, it's ok to ping their team leader instead
<DarkSun88> @schedule roma
<DarkSun88> @schedule rome
<Riddell> when I asked on #canonical-sysadmin elmo told me to ping infinity
<Keybuk> ping elmo again and he won't :)
<Keybuk> though you'll have to justify why you wan tthat
<Keybuk> so it's better to start off with a rationale
<Riddell> justify why I want the debconf value set?  so my package can build
<iwj> Riddell: If you get some change made to the way the buildds are set up for building, my autopkgtest will perhaps barf on your packages anyway.  So can you keep me in the loop ?
<Riddell> sure
<Keybuk> Riddell: elmo might not know why the package won't build without it
<Keybuk> he's not as familiar as infinity
<Keybuk> so an extra paragraph of rationale in the RT ticket can mean that anyone in his team can make the change, because it's obvious why
<Keybuk> where if it's just "do X plz" it'll get blocked on one person who might know why X needs to be done
<iwj> Riddell: Do you think we need to argue it through here, or can it be done by email ?
<Mithrandir> changing the chroots is not something most people in the IS team can do, though.
<Riddell> no, I'll poke elmo more, topic done
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: if it became urgent, they could quite easily do it
<iwj> Riddell: As I say, send rationale to me.
<iwj> (as well)(
<Keybuk> (even if it meant giving the tarball to me, or you, etc.)
<Keybuk> right
<Keybuk> thanks to those of you who sent in 8.04 experience amendments
<MacSlow> ah... I thought my net was flaky
<Keybuk> (if you haven't done, please mail them by the end of today!)
<Keybuk> see my 8.04 Planning mail if you're confused as to what I mean
<pitti> Keybuk: I apologize; release will be done soon, then I'll think about it
<Keybuk> pitti: that's ok :)
<Keybuk> otherwise, do we have any other business?
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: when was that sent out?
<pitti> 24.09.07 16:56 Scott James Remna More 8.04 Planning
<Keybuk> oh, Mithrandir and Riddell - don't worry that you didn't get that one
<Mithrandir> oh, ok.
<MacSlow> Keybuk, I've a more fundamental thing I'll send you after this meeting... which is better discussed on the distro or devel list (I left it out of my 8.04 suggestions I sent before)
<Keybuk> since you're working on mobile and KDE respectively, I'll send different mails to you later :)
<Keybuk> MacSlow: sure, chat to me after the meeting and we'll debate where it should go
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: ok, thanks.
<MacSlow> Keybuk, ok
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: in your case, mdz will probably be asking you for feature plans anyway
<Keybuk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:42.
<mvo_> sorry, disconnected
<pitti> thanks
<kwwii> thanks
* mvo_ grumbles
<dendrobates> @schedule newyork
<dendrobates> @schedule new york
<zul> @schedule ottawa
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 27 Sep 08:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 11:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 27 Sep 14:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 17:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 14:00: Forum Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Sep 15:00 UTC: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team
<arualavi> @schedule andorra
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Andorra: 27 Sep 17:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 14:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 17:00: Community Development Team
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 27 Sep 10:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 11:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 12:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 07:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 10:00: Community Development Team
<seisen> @schedule new york
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 27 Sep 11:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 11:00: Community Development Team
<kagou> @schedule paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 27 Sep 17:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 14:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 17:00: Community Development Team
<mako> greetings all
<juliux> hi mako
<effie_jayx> hey mako
<BugMaN> hi all
<effie_jayx> hey BugMaN
<MikeB> morning all
<mhz> morning all
* nealmcb waves
<Seveas> evenin'
<jono> heya folks
<effie_jayx> hello all
<jono> btw, I am available now to discuss the LoCo Council - I was going to be on a call
<greeneggsnospam> hi
<Hattory> hi all
<totopalma> hi :)
* nixternal waves to everyone
<Pici> Hi
<kjcole> Good or Morning.  (Like "Bright and Early", the terms are mutually exclusive.) ;-)
* bordy waves at nixternal
<Seveas> @now
<seisen> hello
<dendrobates> hey all.
<Seveas> hmpf, bot is broken
<dholbach> heya
<smurf> hi
<BugMaN> hi dholbach !
<Hobbsee> hi spam
<Hobbsee> hi everyone
<macd> Hi everyone
<kagou> hi everyone
<peanutb> i everyone
<bordy> heyo!
* bordy is scared.
<statik> hi
<dantalizing> afternoon
* pleia2 hugs bordy 
* peanutb just woke up
<MikeB> sabdfl is not going to be able to make it, unknown about elmo
<jsgotangco> i can't stay long, only for an hour - have a plane to catch in 5 hours
<dholbach> MikeB: I just pined elmo
<dholbach> pinged
* kjcole is jealous of peanutb
* bordy pines away about elmo
<MikeB> mako was planning to come
* peanutb is glad that there happened to be a teacher strike today
<bordy> who struck a teacher?
<yann2> effie_jayx > around?
<dholbach> MikeB: <mako> greetings all
<effie_jayx> yann2,  yep
<seisen> seriously?
<peanutb> as in the teachers arent going to work to prove a point
<jono> may I schedule the LoCo Council as the first item? I have a call in 30 mins
<OgMaciel> howdy jsgotangco
<dholbach> ok, let's get started
<mako> MikeB: yes, i'm here
<mhz> jono: +1
<MikeB> need new glasses
<MikeB> :)
<smurf> jono: do it
<dholbach> jono: your stage, first item on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<jono> ok, I would like to propose the creation of a LoCo council
<jono> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams/LoCoCouncil
<jono> it inspires heavily from other council governance, so much of it is not all that new
<jono> the LoCo project has grown large enough that it needs some of this governance
<jono> and I am keen to not be a bottleneck :)
* smurf agrees
<nixternal> heh, bottledance!
<jono> nixternal: haha
<jono> I would like to get approval today and to then suggest an initial board for the council at the next CC meeting
<jono> or for the CC to appoint directly
<jono> but I am keen to get the brightest and best in the loco community on the council
<jsgotangco> reading
* dholbach reads up what kind of decisions the LC will make
<nixternal> that's actually not a bad idea seeing how large the LoCo's have gotten
<OgMaciel> jono: so this new council would be running part of today's meeting, correct?
<jono> OgMaciel: no, the council would have its own meetingsa
<jono> OgMaciel: just like the forums/irc/motu councils
<OgMaciel> jono: meaning, the approvals and etc
<jono> OgMaciel: it could effectively take over loco approvals
<jono> OgMaciel: so the CC does not get burdened with them
<mako> jono: what are the single points of failure you are trying to remove?
<OgMaciel> jono: understood... that's what I meant to say too ;)
<smurf> jono: that's what he meant ;-)
<jono> :)
<jono> mako: me :)
<OgMaciel> hehe
<dholbach> jono: it seems that loco approvals is not part of the initial proposal yet, right?
<jono> mako: I am also concious to provide a more objective council with a better knowledge of the community - one that lives in loco land every day
<jono> and knows more about the cases
<jono> dholbach: oh, isnt it?
<jsgotangco> do you see an ideal geographical spread of council members?
<mako> that makes sense
<kjcole> I'm not very active in IRC, but speaking as a LoCo leader, I know we'd like to know which channels to go through for various resources.  We've had good support, but don't want to wear out our welcome anywhere.
<mako> jono: so you need to fix the fixme
<jono> let me fix this now
<mako> jono: and you need to come up with a list of members to start with
<mako> but the document looks great
<jono> mako: like I say, I was going to suggest the members at the next CC meeting
<jono> I wanted to get the core doc looked over first
* mako nods
<mako> so this looks great and i'm happy to have a loco council.. in fact, i think i suggested it to some loco folks a year go but consensus was that it was better to wait
<nixternal> mako: that you did
<mako> so if the loco community feels that they're in a good position to do this, it's thumbs up by me
<kjcole> At the same time, although politically left of center, I like the mantra of "smaller government".  So, be careful not to codify too many layers of bureaucracy into things.
<juliux> jono, will be there a realy election for the council members?
<MikeB> jono, should there be something on geographical diversity for Loco Council member if possible
<musashi1> as a very activie member and education lead for the colorado loco i think something like this is needed
<jono> I just added:
<mako> juliux: absolutely, that's why i didn't push :)
<jono>  * The LoCo Council will also make decisions about the approval of LoCo teams, providing the primary means of approving teams instead of the Community Council. The Community Council will still retain the ability to approve teams where required though.
<jono> juliux: the initial council will be nominated and approved by the CC
<MikeB> one representative per continental area or something
<juliux> jono, why?
<jono> MikeB: I think it would make sense to have wide geographical membership on the council where it makes sense
<juliux> i think if there is something that is called "loco council" it should be elected by the locos
<jono> juliux: that is how previous councils have been formed
<bordy> sorry to stick my nose in, but should there really be any geographical limitations? What if there are more qualified candidates on one continent than another, for example if australia has 2 awesome members but is limited to one in favor of a necessary member from another continent?
<yann2> MikeB > that sucks, fuck australia :D
<yann2> (sorry folks :P)
<juliux> jono, sorry but we allways did is this way is no valid reason for me
<jono> juliux: and a popularity contest is not the best way of bringng in a council
<juliux> jono, if there is no election, who nominates the council?
<jono> juliux: we always did it because after much discussion that is the best way to form the basis for a council
<smurf> bordy: all other things being equal, though, geo diversity makes sense
* nixternal thinks this last CC was actually nominated by the community with a poll
<jono> juliux: I would recommend that I nominate a council based on feedback from key community members, but ultimately, the CC decided and approves
<bordy> smurf: true
<juliux> nixternal, that wasn't an election there was no difference in saying yes or no
<dholbach> we just decided something similar for the MOTU Council: the old MC debates over new MC members, which after TB/CC approval are voted for publically
<dantalizing> it'll be tough getting a geographically diverse council together..not a deal killer, but something to consider
<smurf> we need the CC's approval because it's the CC's responsibility *now*, we can't just take over ;-)
<mako> i just jono to come up with a good list
<jono> juliux: this is about grandfathering in an initial council
<yann2> jono > make a list of proposed people, and ask the loco-contacts if they agree or have some better people to propose
<mako> and see no reason to restrict it to proportional representation or by continental area
<juliux> yann2, +1
<jsgotangco> i agree with mako
<effie_jayx> jono,  why not also have people put their names up and the CC and Jono have a look at people
<mako> the most important issues is that we have a group of people who are active and involved and who the loco community respects
<jono> oh of course I will solicit feedback for the proposed list from loco-contacts :)
<jono> mako: indeed
<jono> juliux: so if I propose a list, get feedback from the loco-contacts list and submit to the CC, would you happy with that?
<kjcole> Geodiversity makes sense in that someone will always be awake. ;-)  As long as there's some recognition of differences in government, economy, etc.  One size won't fit all.
<juliux> jono, it is better then without any election
<yann2> jono > a +1 for me
<jono> ok cool
<jono> so given the current text of the LoCo Council Proposal and the process I just outlined for getting an initial council board, are the CC happy with this?
<mako> jono: i am
<jsgotangco> yes
<mako> jono: thanks for bringing this by first
<nealmcb> jono: I'd suggest asking for feedback before proposing a list
<MikeB> fine with me
<mhz> jono: and the LoCo people are also happy, so everyone is hapy now
<dholbach> I'm happy with it too; I'd maybe just add a note about how the process of loco approval between the CC and LC works out
<juliux> jono, i also think it is a good idea to have a locoteams meeting about the loco council
<jono> dholbach: I added a small bullet point to outline that the LC performs approval but the CC can stiull approve if required
<jono> juliux: I agree
<jsgotangco> i like the resource planning part though
<jono> juliux: I will set up a meeting
<jsgotangco> so i am in full support
<juliux> jono, thxs
<jono> other CC members?
<jono> thoughts?
<yann2> +1 for juliux, would be nice to explain to locos what the council is and what it is for
<jono> yann2: indeed :)
<dholbach> in the MC, we send mails to the TB on membership approval to let them do the final ACK on it
<dholbach> not sure if you intend something like this?
<yann2> well, I got thoughts, i explained them by mail to loco-contacts and by phone, and I think they may get solved :)
<jono> dholbach: that could be useful
<dholbach> all the other points are quite clear in the document
<yann2> so definitely a +1 for the loco council
<jono> dholbach: so the LC perform analysis of the approval, but the CC finally ACK it
<jono> dholbach: I think that makes sense
<juliux> i think we need more specs what the taks are for the conucl and what are the responsibilites for the council
<dholbach> jono: that would be an idea: a short mail with links to the application would suffice, I think - what do other CC members think?
<mako> jono: don't feel held to the text you have
<mako> jono: if folks suggest changes that you think are reasonable, please go ahead
<jono> mako: will do - I think the most recent suggestion by dholbach makes sense
<jono> I will modify that
<dholbach> great
<mako> i don't want this tentative approval to do anything to prevent a better structure
<jsgotangco> approvals can be definitely done via email once its available, and that way other council members can give ther opinion (those not present at the moment)
<jono> how many more votes do we need to approve?
<dholbach> I agree
<yann2> mako > i made propositions on the mailing list for a better structure
<mako> jono: most of quorate meeting
<yann2> but it  may take some more time to set up
<yann2> it's a very close but a bit different view of what the LC should be
<OgMaciel> jono: a system like this: http://blogs.gnome.org/ovitters/2007/09/26/sneak-preview-of-mango/ ?
<jono> OgMaciel: I think thats a bit down the line :)
<OgMaciel> :)
<yann2> basically I would love to see it have a legal existence, to be able to receive donations, and to have a process to spend the donations to help the locos
<dholbach> if I counted correctly, mako, dholbach, MikeB and jsgotangco were in favor of it
<dholbach> I'm not sure if elmo is with us?
<jono> not sure
<jono> and sabdfl is not present
<jono> any CC members not voted?
<dholbach> mdke and Burgundavia neither
<jsgotangco> heh split
<jono> so I guess we have quorum for the attended CC members?
<jsgotangco> yes
<MikeB> burgundavia has not
<jsgotangco> but i am confident of the votes :)
<dholbach> MikeB: Burgundavia is not with us, it seems
<mako> right, i
<mako> i'm sure we're fine, but it doesn'a matter for the moment
<mako> this isn't binding anyway :)
<jono> ok, I will consider this pretty much approved
<jono> I will get the last bits sorted, and get a board recommended for the next meeting
<mako> everyone here liked it, it will be approved when it's complete
<jono> then we will be good to go :)
<jono> I thank my CC overlords :)
<dholbach> super
<mako> awesome
<dholbach> thanks jono
<jono> right, I am off to do a call - any queries, mail me folks :)
<elmo> sorry, was AFK
<jsgotangco> thanks
<dholbach> shall we move on to the Florida team for now?
<bordy> hooray!
* bordy ducks
* johnc4510 is here to cheer on Florida Team Approval   Florida Team exemplifiies the Ubuntu Spirit and advocates effectively!! I highly recommned their approval
* nixternal chears on Florida!!! GO BORDY!
<DoctorMO> heya
<bordy> :)
* peanutb also cheers for Florida
* statik is here to support florida
<pak33m> hooray for Florida and sunshine too
<H264> I met pak33m... seems like a worthy state :)
<bordy> H264: be fair, any state with pak33m is a worthwhile place to be
<nixternal> CC: I can actually say that I am totally impressed by the rapid growth that the Florida team has gone through in the past months. They have taken on quite a bit and ran right through it nicely. Definitely a functional and outstanding LoCo team
<dholbach> the wiki pages look very good
<bordy> thanks nixternal
<dholbach> what are the projects in the past you are most proud of? which went best?
<nixternal> even though bordy switched back to Gnome from KDE, I still kind of like him and the team :p
<dholbach> how long does the team exist now?
<bordy> Team started March 3rd I believe. Maybe the 1st.
<bordy> early march
<jsgotangco> "BBS updates"
<jsgotangco> :)
<statik> I joined the team in early march and have been surprised to see it grow to 98 members by now
<bordy> I think I personally am most proud of helping with BarCamp, I helped set it up even though I ended up not going, but we had a strong presence there, with at least one presentation (statik would know better), and definitely got the word out on Ubuntu within the Central Florida corridor
<kjcole> nixternal: I think they're a Mickey Mouse operation and a little Goofy. ;-)  (And I don't even know any of them.)
<nixternal> lol
<mako> your upcoming events page seems to be quite out of date
<MikeB> Florida is a big state, what area are you active and have meetings? how are you expanding to the rest of the state
<bordy> Mako: the person who was doing that left, and we are trying to restructure that
<pak33m> we have a just started a projects page as well
<bordy> MikeB: we are most active in central florida, with tampa/orlando area... have a few outliers in Tallahassee and Miami, but mostly central.
<statik> I see people active in jacksonville, ft lauderdale, tampa, orlando, and the space coast
<statik> because the state is so distributed it is hard to have in person meetups
<bordy> it is a very long state
<jsgotangco> i can imagine that
<nixternal> bordy: global warming will fix that eventually :p
<seisen> lol
<jsgotangco> how did SFD turn out in the area
<OgMaciel> hahaha
<kjcole> bordy, I can sympathize.  (Back when LoCo's were entire countries, I thought the word "local" to be a bit odd.)
<bordy> jsgotangco: our gainesville members organized something at UF, but had very poor turnout from what I hear
<dholbach> how many people show up to your IRC meetings? how do you organise things as a team?
<mako> dholbach: dude! i was SO typing that question
<nixternal> ya, one thing I learned, is never attempt to measure success by turnout....Chicago has seen its poor turnout as well
<dholbach> mako: sorry for that :)
<DoctorMO> It's dificult to include people from an entire state, even smaller ones like MA. we've taken to holding a once every 3 month meeting in central MA just for this problem
<statik> the irc channel is pretty active all week, from 10-20 users normally
<bordy> dholbach: our IRC meetings usually around 25ish, pak33m runs the meetings (because he's the hammer)
<mako> sounds great
<bordy> meetings pull in some of the other active members who tend not to idle with us
<statik> I always skip the weekly meetings, but we get a lot of people on IRC during the week asking questions and getting assistance
<mako> well i'd love to see more attempts at the IRL projects
<mako> because they are very effective and help build community
<mako> even if not all in the past have been successful
<mako> but i'm thrilled with the online communit you've built and am happy with a +1
<mako> you should clean up the vents page.. even blank it
<mako> it looks real
<nixternal> groovy
<jsgotangco> dude, they have a BBS!
<mako> out of date :)
<bordy> mako: thinking about dropping it altogether
<nixternal> BBS?
<nixternal> no way
<bordy> oh yeah a bbs
<bordy> one of our youngins made it for us
<mako> bordy: that's better than keeping it out of date like that
<DoctorMO> whatis BBS?
<mako> bordy: it makes you look inactive
<statik> mako: one of the brevard members is planning an in person meeting after the gutsy release, presenting to a couple of other user groups
<bordy> mako: indeed. I think there are better ways of organizing it anyway
<kjcole> DoctorMO: Bulletin Board System
<macogw> i'm with DoctorMO....what's...oh ok
<macogw> kjcole: you type too fast
<nixternal> that is funny, a youngin made a BBS....
<statik> it's not a real BBS, it's just a server with SSH enabled
* nixternal reflects the BBS days now
* macd hugs vbbs
<jsgotangco> yeah i just looked at the forum pages
<statik> but it's neat that he set it up despite being so young
<bordy> he teaches me stuff. I'm not ashamed. lol
<dholbach> how do you think your POA is coming along?
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FloridaTeam/POA
<nixternal> ya, usually BBS's today are created by old people :p
<jelkner> is there a scheduled time for the membership approval part of this meeting?
<dholbach> what kind of activity are most people involved in?
<jelkner> i fear i'll need to leave before it starts
<dholbach> jelkner: this is the last agenda point before we do membership approval
<dholbach> jelkner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<macogw> jelkner: got a class to teach?
<bordy> dholbach I think its coming along nicely, we are getting more organized, more directed, and the subteam leaders are really coming through for us
<statik> dholbach: I'd guess most folks are doing advocacy stuff, I'm trying to learn more about packaging (got several in-process right now)
<dholbach> statik: that's great to hear - if you have questions or can get people interested in MOTU, let me know
<dholbach> I'm happy with +1 too, seems some healthy action and good structure in the team
<bordy> dholbach: once I learn something at all I would love to learn about packaging
<statik> dholbach: will do, thanks for the help in #ubuntu-motu so far.
<bordy> lol
<dholbach> statik: de rien :)
<dholbach> bordy: rock on, let me know when you want to get started on that
<dholbach> MikeB, jsgotangco: any more questions?
<MikeB> dholbach: none here
<jsgotangco> i'm fine, giving my +1, please just update some of your pages (Events, etc)
<bordy> yeah that events page might be sayin bye bye
<dholbach> it might be worth looking into: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting
<jsgotangco> its alright to start virtual teams for now for such a big state
<mako> i turn into a pumpkin in 45 minutes, so lets get through as much as we can :)
<MikeB> +1 here also
<dholbach> congratulations florida!
<mako> are we waiting on anyone?
* johnc4510 w00t congrats to the Florida Team     nice job!!
<jsgotangco> what really needs to be nurtured is the activities that you guys take part of, even tough not as a big group
<bordy> hooray!
<pak33m> dholbach: i will be looking at the reporting page and reporting in general for Florida
<dholbach> pak33m: great :)
<bordy> jsgotangco: we're trying to branch, not getting too much interaction with local lugs, but we'll get there.
<nixternal> j1mc isn't around, so you can skip him
<dholbach> ok, let's move on; I think jelkner has to leave in a bit; shall we get him first?
<elmo> +1
<kjcole> +1
<dholbach> jelkner: your stage
<dholbach> it's been quite a while since we met in Sydney - what happened since then? :)
<elmo> (that was to the florida team, sorry - tho it may be moot)
<jelkner> dholbach: my stage?
<dholbach> for membership approval?
<dholbach> I thought you had to leave soon
<macogw> jelkner: your turn at membership approval because you need to go teach soon
<jelkner> what would you like to know?
<jelkner> i do
<jelkner> how does this work
<jelkner> are you asking what i've done lately?
<Joe_CoT> jelker: briefly explain who you are, what you've done, then link to your application
<jelkner> ahh
<jsgotangco> :)
<jelkner> i'm a high school cs teacher
<jelkner> in arlington va
<jelkner> i've setup edubuntu and ubuntu labs throughout the dc metro area
<jelkner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeffreyElkner
<dholbach> a shame none of the Edubuntu folks are here
<mako> it is a shame
<jelkner> i've taught hundreds of cs students using ubuntu
* musashi1 pays some attention to the edubuntu lists
<jelkner> i'm a founding member of the dc loco
<dholbach> that sounds great, do you still dress as santa claus with flint_? :)
<Spec> hah!
<jsgotangco> jelker, its been a while since we did that original BoF in Sydney for Edubuntu, how do you feel about the project 2 years after :)
<jelkner> only flint can be credited with that ;-)
<kjcole> jelkner's just an oversized elf.
<jsgotangco> and what do you plan on int as well :)
<nixternal> jelkner: I will join your loco in a few months, cool? I am moving back out to DC in the spring it looks like
<jelkner> edubuntu gets better with each release
<jelkner> i'm now using the share desktop features at one of the schools
<Spec> nixternal, awesome!
* musashi1 is itching to put gutsy in his edubuntu lab
<jelkner> anything else?
<jsgotangco> as part of the DC loco, what activities have you been part of, and planning to, with regards to your affiliation with ubuntu?
<musashi1> as a teacher myself, i think we need more teachers advocating for ubuntu and open source in general.
<jelkner> software freedom day for the last 3 years
<jelkner> table at the takoma park folk festival
* mhz has known jelkner for quite some long, esp. since his help on Edubuntu (more than a year ago, IIRC).
<dholbach> that sounds great
<jelkner> (where general awareness of and enthusiasm for ubuntu was *really* high)
<nixternal> man, this membership process is making me reminisce big time
<jelkner> our loco is very active
<dholbach> MikeB, jsgotangco, mako: any more questions?
<kjcole> jelkner helped draft me as the DC LoCo team leader.  I tried to get a deferral but it didn't work. ;-)
<jelkner> we are all friends at this point and do a lot of things together
<mako> i've been familiar wiht jelkner's work for a long time
* DoctorMO isn't a member and his LoCo is rouge right now
<jelkner> tomorrow Spec turns 21
<jelkner> so we are taking him out for beer!
<Spec> no, that was the 25th
<mako> in any case, i'm happy with a +1 for jelkner
<macogw> jelkner: he turned 21 two days ago!
<MikeB> dholbach: none here, definite +1
<kjcole> he's been instrumental in organizing transportation, rallying students and others, providing meeting space, etc.
<dholbach> +1 from me, good work
<Spec> just i'm busy w/ school/work until then
<mhz> Spec: then at least 1 beer per day missing :)
<jsgotangco> I am fine, I believe jelkner as an ubuntu member has been long overdue, +1, I've been aware of his activities ever since
<dholbach> so that 4 +1, elmo?
<Spec> so whose votes count, current members or just those on the council?
<jsgotangco> "rallying students"
<mhz> Spec: councils
* nealmcb hopes we go in order for the rest
<dholbach> mako, MikeB, jsgotangco, elmo: I'll be away for just a few minutes in the mobile meeting, which starts in 5, just to let you know
<mako> Spec: just the council
<macogw> mako: you're late :P
<dholbach> ok, let's move on then, we're good with +4 already?
<mako> dholbach: just a few?
<mako> yes, lets move on
<jelkner> i apologize for going out of order
<jsgotangco> heh
<dholbach> mako: yes, one agenda item
<jelkner> the problem for me (and mattva01 too)
<jelkner> is that we are in a school setting
<mhz> jelkner: \o/  congrats!
<jelkner> bell will ring we need to leave
<macogw> mattva01 is his student
<jsgotangco> i have to go too in a while, i have a plane to catch in 4 hours but i can still sit on 3 memberships
<jelkner> thanks!
<dholbach> congratulations
<seisen> \0/
<H264>  |
<bordy> grats jelkner!
<jsgotangco> jelkner: congrats, btw, what happened to colin applegate
<dholbach> j1mc seems not to be here. peanutb?
<kjcole> jelkner and mattva01 are playing hookey, and on school grounds, which sort of defeats the purpose.
<peanutb> e can read it beforehand. Come well prepared, otherwise the meetings will take too much time.
<peanutb> e can read it beforehand. Come well prepared, otherwise the meetings will take too much time.
<peanutb> rawr
<peanutb> im trying to copy/paste my speach
<jelkner> jsgotangco: still around, but not active
<peanutb> Hello, My name is Paul. I am also known as peanutb or Peanut butter. I have been using Linux since Suse 9.0 and Ubuntu since Hory. Last year I joined the Ubuntu PNW team and I have helped plan all of the major events in Washington and some of the events in Oregon. I am currently trying to get the Ubuntu Washington loco up and kicking, and have also helped
<peanutb> revive the local lug GSLUG. I have been the webmaster of http://pnw.ubuntu-us.org for a while now, and I am also a moderator on the mailing list. I have helped many people on ubuntu forums, #ubuntu, and over the 6 months or so. My wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulBartell . I was featured in an article in the Seattle PI last april, commenting
<peanutb> on the Dell Ubuntu deal.. See my wiki page for a link. I apologise for the semi-out-datedness of my wikipage, as i wasent planning on showing up. An unexpected teacher strike changed that.
<jsgotangco> peanutb: FTW :)
<Spec> were you at ubuntu-live?
<peanutb> no. i was in europe
<peanutb> I wanted to be though
* nixternal cheers on peanutb! especially with his stripper name "Peanut Butter"
<seisen> omg
<H264> I drove 7 hours just to meet him at an event in Washington
<mako> peanutb: i like the article in the pi :)
<H264> ok, well maybe not *Just* to meet him
<peanutb> mako, thanks
<dholbach> peanutb: what did you like doing best in Ubuntu? which of your contributions are you proud of?
<nixternal> CC: peanutb is a pretty big part of the US LoCo team scene and is a great assett, so I am throwing in my support for his membership!
<peanutb> I am most proud of the Linux Fest northwest ubuntu booth
<nixternal> strip that t will ya
<mako> peanutb: great wiki page, also creative
<mako> you seem to have been extremely active and passionate
<kjcole> I dunno... I expected so much more from a 14-year-old. ;-)
<mako> peanutb: any plans for the future with ubuntu and your project?
<H264> peanutb: yeah the linux fest northwest way way fun :)
<dholbach> away for a just few minutes now
<peanutb> I guess Continue spreading ubuntu and work twords becoming a MOTU
<dholbach> peanutb: great, let me know how that goes
<peanutb> will do.
<dholbach> peanutb: seems you have been working on some specs too?
<peanutb> not really.
<dholbach> oh, you mentioned some on your wiki page
<mako> awesme
<mako> i don't need to spend any more time, i'm happy with a +1
<mako> good work, well documented
<MikeB> +1 for mw
<jsgotangco> +1 from mine too
<MikeB> me
<dholbach> +1 from me too
<peanutb> Thanks everyone
<bordy> hooray for peanutb!
<mattva01> gratz
<H264> WooHoo for peanutb :D
* peanutb does a victory dance
<mayeco> hahahahaa
<mayeco> can I go?
<nealmcb> I"m ready
<kjcole> Congrats peanutb
<jsgotangco> i have to go after nealmcb
<nealmcb> Hi, I'm Neal McBurnett.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NealMcBurnett   I've been an Ubuntu user, promoter, contributor and distributor since the first release in 2004, on servers and desktops, for myself and several non-profit organizations. I've been active with *nix since 1977 (at Bell Labs) and have never had Windoze on my desktop :-)
<nealmcb> I've been active in the Colorado LoCo, having helped Joey start it in 2006.  I organized a little Ubucon at Google in Boulder last June and helped out with a Colorado education conference where Jim Hutchinson et al. presented an Ubuntu demo: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/TIEColorado.  I've edited a bunch of wiki pages, authored the identity-selector spec and commented on others.  Some examples are linked to from my wiki page.
<nealmcb> I'm now working on another local Ubucon this fall, and  continuing to get my feet wet with code contributions via bzr in Launchpad. I'd like to also use my enterprise Linux/Solaris experience from Internet2 and Bell Labs to contribute to the NetworkAuthentication efforts.
<soren> I just have to say that we're very happy to have nealmcb working with us on the Server Team. He gets two thumbs  up from me.
<nealmcb> I'm not the biggest or fastest contributor, but I try to provide a broad perspective when I do contribute, and help bring Ubuntu together with other local user groups.  For lots more than you wanted, see also my home page - http://mcburnett.org/neal/
<nealmcb> that's all I'll paste
<nealmcb> thanks, soren!!
<H264> woah, no windows... :)
<dholbach> nealmcb: do you plan to become a MOTU too? :-)
* musashi1 cheers for nealmcb
<musashi1> he has done a lot to help the colorado team
<nealmcb> dholbach: If I can find time I'll do some packaging - I tested ppas
<jsgotangco> nice comeback wiki page!
<musashi1> ubucon, help at the tie conference, helping organize meetings and events, etc
<mako> nealmcb: how did ubucon-boulder go?
<nealmcb> but I don't find lots of spare time in my life :-)
<dholbach> nealmcb: nice
<nealmcb> mako: it was small (15 or so) but we got press in LWN about it, and had a good time and shared lots of cool stuff
<mako> awesome
* musashi1 attended ubucon and thought it was great. even if i didn't understand it all :)
<nealmcb> We didn't have much time since we planned it to precede the TIES conf.  next one will be bigger.
<nealmcb> google is moving to a bigger office in boulder :-)
<musashi1> and maybe google won't forget the shirts next time :)
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> anything more for nealmcb?
<nealmcb> jsgotangco: you want me to say more? or asking for questions?
<dholbach> I'm happy with the testimonials of everybody, I'm happy to +1
<jsgotangco> questions :)
<mako> yes, i'm happy to +1 as well
<mako> it's really come together
<jsgotangco> +1 as well
<MikeB> +1 for me
<mako> good documentation and a nice long-term committment
* nealmcb jumps for joy
<musashi1> congrats
<nealmcb> mako: yeah - long-term committment you've got from me :-)
<bordy> hooray nealmcb!
* peanutb congratulated nealmcb
<dantalizing> wtg nealmcb
<nealmcb> thanks all!!
<nixternal> hrmm, congrats nealmcb...I would have given a cheer, but the meeting moved to quickly it seems and I missed it by blinking
* bordy cowers
<jsgotangco> i'm happy to see smeone getting involved in the server stuff too
<nealmcb> nixternal: :-)
<dendrobates> nealmcb: congrats!
<kjcole> nealmcb welcome aboard
<jsgotangco> i have to exit now, thanks everyone and congratulations to those approved and goodluck to the rest
<nixternal> later jsgotangco
* nealmcb 's grin gets bigger - thanks again
* mattva01 has to leave at 12:30 ... class
<mattva01> gratz neal
<sacater> Congrats to peanutb
<kjcole> (mattva01 is also applying for membership, in case that wasn't clear.)
<nixternal> CC: I need to roll, but before I go, I am cheering on bordy and OgMaciel(ummm, thought you were a member, silly me I guess)
<dholbach> bordy seems to be up next on the agenda?
<OgMaciel> nixternal: renewing
<nixternal> ooh, I will stick around for this
<OgMaciel> :)
<MikeB> dholbach and mako, how long do you have
<nixternal> OgMaciel: ahhh....I was like wth is going on :)
<bordy> If mattva01 has to leave, I wouldnt mind waiting for him
<dholbach> I still have some time left
<macogw> nixternal: until i found out otherwise on SFD, i thought jelkner was already one as well
<OgMaciel> nixternal: but thanks for the support :)
<dholbach> elmo: are you still there or busy?
<dholbach> mattva01: your stage
<mattva01> I'm Matthew Gallagher, I work with Jeff Elkner to admininster the ubuntu computers he mentioned previously.I'm very active in the DC LoCo team, but my main role at the moment is just publicity
<nixternal> what happened with bordy?
<mattva01> My goal is to eventually become a MOTU.
<bordy> nixternal: wanted mattva01 to get his say in before me, he has to leave
<nixternal> ahh, gotcha
<kjcole> (mattva01's page is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MatthewGallagher)
<Spec> i can attest mattva01 spends available time supporting/promoting ubuntu
<jelkner> matt has become a great help as a package builder
<dholbach> mattva01: how's the packaging coming along? you packaged python-pygame?
<mako> MikeB: another 10m
<dholbach> ah no, python-gasp it is
<mattva01> no , I  have packaged python-gasp and schooltool-cando ( which are not in repos yet)
<dholbach> mattva01: when do you plan to propose them for inclusion in ubuntu?
<kjcole> In addition to doing the LoCo stuff, mattva01's helped revive the YHSLUG, and he helped out with the forensics re the recent issue with our server in August.
<Spec> and you're an LP beta tester as well, yes?
<mattva01> yes
<mattva01> hardy heron
<dholbach> mattva01: be sure to let me know how that goes
<dholbach> those packages sound useful
<Spec> and are currently testing ppa, right?
<mattva01> yes I am
<jelkner> i use matt's ppa for gasp
<jelkner> (graphics api for students of python)
<mattva01> still confused about a couple things, but I like the system
<mattva01> for ppa I mean
<mako> mattva01: your wikipage is a little bit thin
<mattva01> I can work on it
<mako> right, not bad
<kjcole> mako: He's not a big talker. ;-)
<kjcole> more of a do-er.
<mattva01> Well, most of the things I have done with Jeff
* mako nods
<mako> you have great testimonials from a variety of people
<mako> so i'm happy with a +1
<mako> but you should spend more time updating your wiki page to help document that contribution
<mako> call it a condition :)
<MikeB> +1 here
<mattva01> yep, will do :)
<dholbach> +1 from me too
<kjcole> mako: I'm guilty of the same, I fear.
<mako> better than having a great wiki page and doing nothing, i suppose :)
* nealmcb nods
<dholbach> ok, great - shall we move on?
* bordy bounces
<loserboy> lol
<elmo> +1
<kjcole> bordy: Down boy.  Good doggie.
<bordy> lol
<dholbach> congratulations mattva01, bordy: your stage
* johnc4510 w00t for bordy, one of the best. Active with the Florida Team and an advocate of Ubuntu. Follows the C of C and would be a great addition to Ubuntu Membership!!
<bordy> alright i have a couple small paragraphs... bear with me plz
<bordy> Hello all, my name is Chris Rohde, and I am a 25 year old junior accountant and full-time student at University of South Florida. I have only been using Ubuntu since Dapper, but fell in love with it as soon as I started using it, and made it my personal mission to help others see the light that is Ubuntu.
* statik is here to support bordy
<bordy> I started the Ubuntu Florida LoCo Team in March 07, and since have spent all my time working on spreading and improving that team and its influence within Florida, as well as learning as much as the team members would teach me about Ubuntu. As I was never the most technically proficient user in the world and depended heavily on community documentation as well as support from the Florida Team to get anything done, I have tried to pass on what I kno
<bordy> I helped plan Orlando's first BarCamp, even though I was ultimately unable to attend (my stupid father in law wanted to turn 50 that day), and right now we are planning Gutsy release parties in Florida, and I mean to see to it that a few more Florida members are here in front of you in the next few months, as there are some outstanding people in there.
<bordy> Here is my wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisRohde
<bordy> and here is my application/testimonials page: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisRohde/Accomplishments
<bordy> there we go
<dholbach> "... pass on what I kn" <- something was truncated
<nixternal> bordy: tell them how you really started :)
* pak33m cheering for bordy
<bordy> Alright fine, I started begging Nixternal for help
<bordy> lol
<nixternal> haha
<pak33m> beg he does
<bordy> But I am almost (almost) self-sufficient now. Only ask the complicated questions now
<mako> ok, i'm about to disappear
* nixternal definitely gives a huge thumbs up to bordy for president...err I mean membership
<mako> this will be my last one for the day
* Burgundavia appears
<nixternal> man, talk about perfect timing
<mako> just in time to replace the rapidly disappearing mako
<dholbach> what's the 'ubuntu diy team'?
<dantalizing> bordys done a lot to get the fl loco going
* mako highfives Burgundavia
<mako> tag, you're in
<nixternal> tag team!
<nixternal> haha
<bordy> dholbach: I havent actually heard anything from it in a while, I believe I was working with funnylookinhat, but truthfully been too busy to chase after it recently
<dholbach> ok, because you listed it in your application
<nixternal> dholbach: diy is a marketing team project that just provides a bunch of stuff to the do it yourself advocators
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> nice
<Burgundavia> there was also an attempt to create a webpage to post marketing projects to
* nixternal needs to upload some presentations to it yet
<mako> great, talk to you later
<dholbach> you're in the screenshots team too?
<mako> mail me if there are any open questions
<dholbach> see you mako
<Spec> see ya, mako
<bordy> vaya con dios mako
<macogw> oh bye mako
<dholbach> bordy: what do you want to work on in the next months? what would you like to see happening in the Ubuntu world?
<bordy> dholbach: I have never been the most technical of people, I am trying to learn python and ruby right now, trying to learn by doing with some scripts and trying to understand bots. In the next few months I am going to try to work on getting Florida Team's subteams more self-sufficient, and then increase cooperation between them to delegate responsibility
<bordy> Also, (and this is in *very* beginning stages) I am working with crane and boredandblogging (of AL and GA, respectively) to try to set up some sort of linuxfest SouthEast... but thats a gigantic undertaking, and will most likely be a year or more in the works
<dholbach> that sounds great
<dholbach> Burgundavia, MikeB: any more questions?
<bordy> ideally, I want to learn some programming because I would like to see an increase in proper accounting software for ubuntu so I can more easily convince small businesses of its worth
<Burgundavia> not from me
<bordy> because, speaking as an accountant, the current programs dont really cut it :(
<MikeB> dholbach: none here +1 for me
<nixternal> true dat
<seisen> bordy we need to talk some time about accounting
<Burgundavia> +1 from me
<dholbach> +1 from me too, great work, good testimonials
<bordy> seisen: will do, lookin forward to it
<dholbach> elmo?
<loserboy> *highfive*
* nealmcb appreciates bordy's offers of accounting help to small groups like locos (if we ever need to go down that perilous path) :-)
<elmo> +1
<dholbach> congratulations bordy
* johnc4510 w00t   congrats bordy
<dholbach> dendrobates: you here?
<dendrobates> yep
<bordy> Woohoo! thanks guys!
<nixternal> congrats bordy! I feel like I have accomplished something today
<bluekuja> congrats bordy
* nixternal goes out shopping before heading out of town
<seisen> that would be a project i would be interested in nealmcb
<bluekuja> cya nixternal
* dendrobates yea my turn!
<dantalizing> congrats bordy!
<bordy> thankee!
<pak33m> good job bordy!!
<macd> could I get on the stage sometime in the next 45mins?
<nealmcb> bordy: congrats!!
<dendrobates> Hi I'm Rick Clark.  I work for Canonical as the manager of the Ubuntu server team.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/dendrobates  I'm fairly new to Ubuntu, but I am a long time Linux user.  Currently my main community focus is growing the Server community particularly with people that work in corporate environments.  I am as acitve as I can be in the Georgia US Loco, I can't always attend the IRC meetings, but I make an
<dendrobates> effort to attend any face to face meetings.
<dendrobates> Many of the things I work on are currently not public, but UDS planning, Hardy planning take up a large part of my time these days.  My most recent sucess was getting re worked libpam-ldap and lib-nss-ldap packages in main, as well as ldap-auth-config and ldap-auth-client, which I created.
<dholbach> How's the ubuntu server community shaping up?
* mathiaz cheers at dendrobates excellent work on getting ldap well supported in ubuntu.
<dendrobates> It is starting to look better
<dendrobates> we have a few good active people like nealmcb.
<dendrobates> It is more challenging to attract people with the right knowledge to the server team.
<dholbach> What could new contributors do in the server team?
* statik is curious what kind of help the server team needs
<dendrobates> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/GettingInvolved
* nealmcb cheers for dendrobates service to the server team 
<dendrobates> we need testers badly
<kjcole> make nice to the man with the inside track on things. ;-)
<dendrobates> people who have access to server grase hardware.
<kjcole> s/grase/grade/
<soren> I'm going to dinner, so I'll just throw in my two thumbs up for dendrobates as well. He's going a great job in managing the server team, and I trust he'll be a critical part of making Ubuntu Server rock even harder.
<dendrobates> soren: thanks and cheers
<soren> cheerio
<mralphabet> dendrobates: Or hardware companies providing server grade hardware to test on for the server team ;)
<dholbach> MikeB, Burgundavia: any more questions from you?
<dendrobates> mralphabet: that is correct, but we charge for that, so it is tricky.
<mralphabet> dendrobates: ahh
<Burgundavia> the server team has been rocking, thanks dendrobates +1 from me
<nealmcb> dendrobates: canonical charges for it?
<statik> dendrobates: what qualifies as server grade hardware for the type of testing you need? currently the only thing listed on the testing page is AppArmor
<MikeB> dholbach: +1 here
<dendrobates> we want things to work, and then we want hw mfgs to pay us to certify
<macd> dendrobates, you should contact me later, we have labs full of newer dell server (upto blades too) we can test with
<dendrobates> macd: I will, thanks.
<statik> dendrobates: actually, I can ask you later, don't want to get too offtopic
<dholbach> +1 from me too; I met dendrobates personally, know how dedicated he is and know that he does good work
<mralphabet> Sorry, didn't mean to muddy the waters
<elmo> +1
<dholbach> rock on
<dholbach> congratulations dendrobates
<dholbach> deadwill does not seem to be around
* dendrobates woo hoo!
<dendrobates> thanks guys.
<dholbach> viridari neither
<jelkner> please excuse my out of turn comment here yet again, but i need to vouch for macogw before i go
* macd is here!
<dholbach> demrit neither
<jelkner> i have to sign off
<dholbach> paulliu neither
<DktrKranz> Dear CC members, I have to leave now. I left my cheers for totopalma, Hattory and BugMan in their wiki pages, I hope you will take this into account. Thank you.
<dendrobates> Please go to the wiki and help the server team out
<jelkner> macogw has been a great contributor to our loco
<dholbach> seisen: you're here - your stage :)
<seisen> ok
<seisen> My name is Michael Price and I am a college student majoring in Accounting. I am a member of the Beginner's Team, Ubuntu Wiki Team and the Ohio Loco Team among other teams . I am very active on the Ubuntu Forums and I have helped cleaned up the wiki pages and created a few new pages on the Wiki.  I am also look at starting a FreeGeek where I live at since we don't have anything like that near me and I planned on using Ubuntu as
<seisen> the OS.
<seisen> what did I do scare people away
<seisen> almost forgot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Seisen
<dholbach> what kind of documentation do you like writing?
<macogw> seisen: jelkner had to go teach a class, it wasnt you :)
<seisen> i was just joking
<seisen> The ones I wrote where for printers it doesn't matter really
<dholbach> wow, that looks like quite an amount of work you put into the wiki
<dholbach> I saw you are hanging out in the doc team channel - are you working with the doc team too?
<seisen> yes and there is still a whole bunch left
<seisen> I am going to try help with the documentation with the next release
<Belutz> am I too late?
<dholbach> seisen: what are the biggest challenges, when cleaning up docs?
<OgMaciel> do I have 30 minutes before I'm up?
* OgMaciel counts 3 people ahead of him
<OgMaciel> or 4
<macogw> OgMaciel: depends if everyone's here
<seisen> trying to find links for outdated pages
<dholbach> I will have to go in like half an hour
<macogw> OgMaciel: a bunch of people were just *poof*
<dholbach> I hope mdke turns up before that
<OgMaciel> hmmmm
<Burgundavia> I have to go in about 10 minutes, off to class
<dholbach> I'm pretty happy with seisen's contributions; it would be nice to see you working more closely with the doc team, but that's on your agenda, so that's cool
<dholbach> Burgundavia, MikeB, elmo?
<elmo> sorry, two secs to catch up
<Burgundavia> +1 from me. More doc contributors are always good
<elmo> (beta is a bad day for CC meetings for me ...)
<MikeB> +1  here, great work on docs
<dholbach> +1 fomr me too
<dholbach> elmo: I can imagine
<MikeB> elmo: I will remember that in the future:)
<bluekuja> heya ScottK
<elmo> +1
<dholbach> neat-o
<dholbach> congrats
<dholbach> macogw: your turn
<seisen> thanks
<bluekuja> grats seisen
<macogw> I'm Mackenzie Morgan, and I've been using Ubuntu for a year.  One of my friends suggested Ubuntu when I said I was thinking about Mandriva.  For 3/4 of the year, I'm a member of the DC LoCo and help with the events here, like Software Freedom Day and Takoma Park.  I also help with installfests as a board member of my school's chapter of the ACM, and with demo-ing FOSS with the school's OSI chapter.  The other 1/4 of the year, I'm home in Pittsb
<macogw> urgh where I defenstrate my family's and friends' computers.  I have a blog where I post news about Linux & FOSS and tips & tricks for making Ubuntu (and often Linux in general) do different things, http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com (long URL, I know) and a Google Calendar where I put big events in the FOSS world (like UDS, release dates, etc).  My wiki page can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MacoMorgan
<kjcole> jelkner's already listed his support for macogw (scroll back to before he split).
<macogw> oh well spec has lovely timing
<kjcole> My turn.  I ment macogw last year and since then she's been very visible online and at events.
<elmo> I like the pwgen-inspired AIM handle
<kjcole> She's one providing for providing answers to all.
<macogw> pwgen?
<Burgundavia> I have to run, but based on the recommendations and a quick scan of her page/blog, +1 from me
<macogw> it's inspired by my lyrics from my favorite band (AFI), elmo
<macogw> s/my//
<elmo> macogw: ah, fair enough, was just kidding
<kjcole> She was one of our four tablers for the two SFD events we had.
<macogw> there's a photo of us all tabling on the most recent post on my blog
<macogw> i shouldve told jeff that
<kjcole> spec, nice timeing on the split. ;-)  Speak up man.
<Spec> hmm?
<macogw> Spec: it's my turn and you timed out as soon as they called my name
<kjcole> spec, macogw's up.
<Spec> oi
<Spec> i fully support maco's induction to ubuntu membership
<dholbach> sounds great, what part do you like best about the forums?
<macogw> dholbach: they're a great resource for "works for me" advice...very useful when in "why doesnt it work?!?" mode
<Spec> extremely helpful helping out local ubuntu users and helping w/ our LoCo
<dholbach> which sections do you spend most time on?
<macogw> Community Cafe and Absolute Beginners
<dholbach> what are your plans for the next months? what would you like to see happening in the ubuntu world?
<macogw> sometimes i go through absolute beginners and try to get debugging info out of the 0-replies threads to boost them along
<MikeB> I see macogw on the forums, she does get work
<macogw> Well, next month I intend to help DC LoCo with an installfest and I'm in the process of helping plan the post-Gutsy-release installfest for my school
<pleia2> macogw has been active in the #ubuntu-pennsylvania - we're getting the pittsburgh end of the state going but based on what I've seen I have no doubt she'll be a valuable help to the project once we do :)
<dholbach> nice... that's all from me; I'm happy to give +1 based on all the good feedback
<kjcole> dholbach: There's an effort to start up a "Free Software for Non-Geeks" class in the area, and I believe macogw's on board for that as one of the teachers.
<dholbach> MikeB, elmo?
<MikeB> +1
<elmo> +1
<kjcole> Ouch.  What timing you two have. ;-)
<macogw> sorry, school's wifi is rather bad
<macogw> pleia2 just filled me in on what i missed
<dholbach> congratulations macogw
<macogw> thanks
<dholbach> I think we're short of CC members now
<macogw> heh
<dholbach> with just MikeB, elmo and me around
<dholbach> :-/
<kjcole> Do CC members mail in votes late after skimming the logs?
<dholbach> it seems we have to handle all the other applications next time.
<Spec> quick, make me a CC member *innocent*
<macd> :/
* macogw pokes Spec
<dholbach> kjcole: I think we approved all the member applications we got around to this time
<kjcole> So, did macogw make it or not?
<ScottK> macogw: Just saying Hi since I live in the DC area and your wiki pages asks people to...
<elmo> I'm happy for us to proceed with just us 3, if you 2 want to and are happy to
<macd> do people who didnt get on the block need todo anything or just wait till the next time? (i.e. need to add back to the wiki?)
<dholbach> kjcole: yes, 4 +1
<macogw> ScottK: oh ok hello :)
<elmo> we were doing it with just me + Mark last time, so this would be better than that ;-)
<dholbach> elmo: I'll need to leave in a bit too
<elmo> (at least numerically)
<macogw> ScottK: we're meeting on friday if you'd like to come.  Spec's 21st birthday and all that
<kjcole> dholbach: Oops.  Sorry.  Missed the congrats line.  I see it now.
<ScottK> macogw: Sorry, I'll be out of town.
<macogw> ScottK: oh ok.  well there's an installfest in the works, so maybe you can come see us all then
* OgMaciel sees 3 people ahead of him and wonders if he should break for lunch
<dholbach> Ok... I'll make sure we get the next CC meeting announced ASAP, will mail the members tomorrow
* dholbach calls it a day
<MikeB> dholbach: thanks
* OgMaciel heads to the microwave oven
<macogw> OgMaciel: yes, do break for lunch.  you have to wait until the next meeting because too many CC members popped out
<elmo> sorry about the people we didn't get to :(
<ScottK> macogw: Only if I get to install Kubuntu ;-)
<macd> just more time to keep on doing what were doing :)
<OgMaciel> macogw: no worries... I'm only trying to renew :)
<dholbach> have a nice day everybody
<OgMaciel> later dholbach
<bluekuja> dholbach: you too daniel
<kagou> later dholbach
<elmo> OgMaciel: you should be able to just renew yourself?
<MikeB> later all
<macogw> ScottK: if you're willing to burn the necessary cds
<OgMaciel> elmo: not sure... figured I'd give you guys the chance to ask me questions again  ;)
<seisen> later everybody
<pochu> OgMaciel: lol :)
<macd> take it easy people, maybe next meeting you'll get to interrogate me
<Belutz> elmo, was there a discussion about loco council in this meeting?
<OgMaciel> pochu: :)
<macogw> well i should go to my internship so i can play with python and get annoyed at the government for not using proper XHTML and making it hard to parse the Supreme Court's website
<elmo> Belutz: yep, you can check the logs in /topic
<Belutz> elmo, ok thanks :)
<pochu> OgMaciel: can I deactivate myself to be interrogated too? ;)
<OgMaciel> pochu: hehehehe
<Spec> yeap...i need to study for test :/
<dfiloni> have a nice day men
<OgMaciel> well, I better go before it's too late
<dfiloni> bye
<kjcole> I gotta make up two hours of lost time as well.
<Spec> congrats, macogw
<OgMaciel> later guys
<BugMaN> have a nice day, bye
* OgMaciel turns into a pumpkin
<macogw> Spec: thanks *hug* (no kissing in public, remember?)
<kjcole> bye stepmom. ;-)
<macogw> haha
<macogw> bye stepson
<macogw> :P
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-22
<ubuntugeek> Does anyone have anything else to discuss before we put a close to the meeting?
<nathangrubb> xhhux: did you want to discuss that?
<xhhux> discuss what?
<Joeb454> xhhux, you wanted to discuss a ban i believe it said on the agenda
<ubuntugeek> I didn't see it on the agenda but we can discuss it if xhhux wants to.
<xhhux> if you'll be kind enough to un-ban me, great, if not, whatever
<nathangrubb> it was on the past agenda
<forumsmatthew> I'm here, and I have the time
<jdong> yeah I'm here to hear this too
<xhhux> dident i explane this a long time ago
<ubuntugeek> xhhux feel free to discuss.
<forumsmatthew> xhhux, no, you never made it to a meeting
<nathangrubb> xhhux: well, you can explain it again
<forumsmatthew> we are all here now, and we are listening if you want to explain
<xhhux> ok, one sec, let me find the email
<xhhux> i dsent
<xhhux> sent*
<jdong> if memory serves me right, you placed this on the agenda of at least two meetings but didn't show up to either...
<jdong> maybe there's a misunderstanding of putting things on the agenda vs showing up, but at any rate, we're all here now.
<nathangrubb> jdong: I'm pretty sure xhhux  kept forgetting
<nathangrubb> I missed a few meetings myself I planned to attend..
<jdong> nathangrubb: indeed. I can related to forgetting too :)
<xhhux> the meeting was at 5 in the moringing
<jdong> </shamelessness>
<xhhux> i couldent make it
<nathangrubb> this is the first one I've made, and it's only because edavidburg had to say things
<edavidburg> Which ended up not mattering so much. Oh well, I liked the outcome. :)
<jdong> user profile: http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?do=getinfo&u=453800
<xhhux> ok, well i dont want to c/p this, so here's the long shot, my relatives came to visit me, and i made them UF accounts on my computer
<jdong> my issue here is, this is the third or fourth time we've heard excuses like these for duplicate accounts
<jdong> and the numbering at the end of your e-mail address doesn't make us feel any better about it
<xhhux> oh that
<xhhux> i have a couple diffenet adresses that i use for diffenert things
<xhhux> so i organize them iwth #'s
<ubuntugeek> Why were your relatives using your email accounts?
<xhhux> they dont have emails
<xhhux> they were like 7
<ubuntugeek> I see
<xhhux> if you want unban xhhux, idk about the rest
<ubuntugeek> I went back to your first email and it states that your friends were the ones using the accounts
<jdong> well any of these excuses alone, I would've accepted them, but given the whole history in mind I find this situation much less plausible. We aren't here to play games... if you'd like to tell us what is really going on, we can get somewhere today.
<xhhux> yep
<forumsmatthew> jdong, +1
<xhhux> what, i am telling you
<forumsmatthew> you are telling us multiple versions of the story, each with different details
<ubuntugeek> Wait but just 5 minutes ago you said you made accounts for your relatives
<forumsmatthew> which is true?
<xhhux> yes
<jdong> that's not a yes or no question.
<forumsmatthew> relatives or friends?
<forumsmatthew> which one is true?
<xhhux> oh, there realatives
<forumsmatthew> another question: why would a seven year old need a forums account?
<ubuntugeek> So the email you sent about your friends wasn't true?
<xhhux> idk, i whote it 8 months ago
<jdong> the truth doesn't change over time.
<ubuntugeek> I see
<forumsmatthew> my opinion is unchanged. I didn't believe xhhux at the time, and unfortunately, I'm not being convinced otherwise today
<ubuntugeek> I think its fair to say the same decision the FC made on list stands here. +1 for not unbanning your account(s)
<forumsmatthew> sorry
<forumsmatthew> I'm going to vote to leave the account banned
<jdong> likewise. I have no reason to believe that if I unban your account today we won't be doing this at the next FC meeting.
<xhhux> ok, then, whatever, do what you want
<Technoviking> I also feel the account should stay banned
<xhhux> there are more forums than the UF
<forumsmatthew> is there any other business?
<nathangrubb> this meeting seems short
<ubuntugeek> nathan: they often are
<ubuntugeek>  End meeting
<forumsmatthew> nathangrubb, we deal with a lot of stuff on the mailing list and in the staff forum, so stuff here doesn't usually take long
<edavidburg> Much more formal than our meetings
<ubuntugeek> Thanks everyone for coming
<Rocket2DMn> BT meetings move quickly and still take forever
<nathangrubb> edavidburg: but they don't have a totally cool voting bot that serves no purpose
<jacob> *oh snap*
<Rocket2DMn> go say that to nhandler
<forumsmatthew> see you all later! thanks, everyone!
<edavidburg> VoteBox > everyone here
<ubuntugeek> See ya matthew
<Rocket2DMn> thanks forumsmatthew
<edavidburg> bye forumsmatthew
<xhhux> bye
<nathangrubb> votebox is totally drsmall's bot which is based on nhandler's bot
<nathangrubb> bye forumsmatthew
<Joeb454> later forumsmatthew
<Rocket2DMn> well votebot is released under gplv3
<ubuntugeek> See ya all later
<nathangrubb>  bye ubuntugeek
<Rocket2DMn> yeah see ya guys, thank you counci lmembers
<nathangrubb> well they're all gone Rocket2DMn
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-23
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 24 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 25 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 25 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 25 Sep 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 26 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Release
<lifeless> !sched syd
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sched syd
<lifeless> !schedule
<ubottu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<dholbach> @schedule sydney
<ubottu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 25 Sep 03:00: QA Team | 25 Sep 08:00: Platform Team | 25 Sep 22:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 25 Sep 23:00: Desktop Team | 26 Sep 00:00: Ubuntu Java | 27 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Release
<lifeless> dholbach: thanks:P
<dholbach> :)
<lifeless> why does software suck so much
<lifeless> also, why isn't the asia community membership panel in the schedule
<dholbach> lifeless: my thoughts exactly... how can we be part of a revolution if we have to resort to hammers and screwdrivers every time
<lifeless> ubottu: this is a meeting channel, folk asking about schedule don't want the definition. And don't talk back to me now?!
<lifeless> 19:04 <ubottu> Your edit request has been forwarded to #ubuntu-ops.  Thank you for your attention to detail
<lifeless> ok, that made me laugh
<lifeless> and apparently flannel wants to tell me 'about love' :P
<aamachu> elky: persia: lifeless: Hi
<aamachu> TheM
<aamachu> TheMuso: Hi
<aamachu> zakame, belutz?
<TheMuso> Ampelbein: Hi.
<TheMuso> aamachu: hi
<lifeless> hi
<aamachu> so are you there elky?
<aamachu> persia might join us later
<aamachu> nizarus: didrocks: ara: Hi
<elky> i am here, yes
<aamachu> so we are four :-)
<ara> aamachu: hellow!
<nizarus> hi aamachu
 * heno waves
<aamachu> and three participants appear to be here already
<aamachu> Lets start.. elky, TheMuso, lifeless
<nizarus> aamachu, the three we are from the EMEA region
<aamachu> Welcome every one for today's meet.
<aamachu> nizarus: noticed that from wiki
<didrocks> aamachu: hi
<didrocks> \o/
<aamachu> Amir Eldor: there?
<aamachu> Vid_A  ?
<aamachu> Reference: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<elky> aamachu, i cant raise vid anywhere
<aamachu> elky: ok.
<aamachu> nizarus: Please go ahead, sharing with us your contributions for Ubuntu
<nizarus> thx aamachu
<nizarus> I'm Nizar from Tunisia
<nizarus> Linux user since 2000, and ubuntu user since edgy eft (June 2006)
<nizarus> My main activities are in the Tunisian Loco Team
<nizarus> I was one of first members of the non approved ubuntu-tn team (team created on February 2007 I joined it on June 2007)
<nizarus> and I actively participated to mount the ubuntu Tunisian local community by organising irc meetings and with the participation to the Tunisia Software Freedom Day 2007.
<nizarus> I was one of the most active members in the preparation of the approval process of our Tunisian Team and we got the approval in July 22 (we are the first approved arabic loco team and second in Africa)
<nizarus> Actually I'm the Loco Team Contact and owner of ubuntu-tn and ubuntu-tn-users teams in LP
<nizarus> In the Ubuntu-tn Management Committee i'm the coordinator of the International Relationships Group (as i'm the loco team contact). I'm also the assistant in the Secretary Group and Redaction Group.
<nizarus> I try to be present as more as possible in ubuntu-tn irc channel, to assist or help Tunisian users
<nizarus> I'm also a member of the official Ubuntu Arabic Translators team with a mission to translate main ubuntu package into Arabic language
<nizarus> I also have activities in LP especially on translations (Arabic and French), answers and some times reporting bugs.
<nizarus> :)
<nizarus> (today i have some internet connection trubls hope that it dont disconnect during this meeting : ))
<nizarus> and Excuse my English level as it's my third language after Arabic (mother tongue) and French :)
<aamachu> nizarus: International Relatioship Team?
<aamachu> I can see the link, but unable to get its objectives :-)
<nizarus> aamachu, we divided our activites in the u-tn team
<nizarus> in many groups
<nizarus> the International Relatioship Team is to keep contact
<aamachu> nizarus: I would like to know about the role of Internatiol relationships team
<nizarus> with other locos and the CCuncil
<nizarus> the mission is to keep contact with loco cuncil and other loco teams
<aamachu> ok
<aamachu> nizarus: how close are you and Rafik in Tunisia? ;-)
<nizarus> for example we are in contact to get material ressources given by canonical (loco pack and event packs...)
<nizarus> we study in the same town
<aamachu> thats coool :-)
<nizarus> Rafik he's one of the most active in our team :)
<nizarus> and he was recently approved as u-member
<aamachu> elky: TheMuso: lifeless: questions for nizarus?
<nizarus> oO
<aamachu> elky: there?
<aamachu> TheMuso: there?
<aamachu> lifeless: asking you too..
<TheMuso> aamachu: Yes I am here, just having another quick read trying to think of a question, and not having much luck. :)
<elky> looks good to me too
<nizarus> :)
<aamachu> TheMuso: ;-) Hmm... so what are you concluding?
<TheMuso> aamachu: I think I'm satisfied.
<lifeless> +1
<TheMuso> nizarus: +1 from me. You are doing some wonderful work, keep it up.
<elky> +1
<aamachu> :-)
<nizarus> thanks all
<aamachu> nizarus: great job! I need one feedback from you on Arabic translation
<nizarus> we are working on aamachu
<aamachu> how do you differentiate Arabic in Tunisia and Middle East
<aamachu> are translators from Tunisia mingling with translators from Middle East?
<nizarus> we just need an action plan to be approved by all intervenant
<aamachu> hey, just to know how you people manage.. for an information..
<nizarus> aamachu, there is a great project for arabic translation
<nizarus> arabeyes
<nizarus> ther are working to unify arabic transaltion
<aamachu> other than that, you are doing great job.. Keep it up :-)
<aamachu> +1 from me too...
<lifeless> can you guys take this bit offline perhaps ?
<nizarus> and it's our reference in arbic countris in africa and middle east
<nizarus> thx aamachu
<aamachu> nizarus: Welcome!
<aamachu> lifeless: :-) its done
<aamachu> didrocks: its your time now. Please go ahead..
<nizarus> \o/ victory :D
<didrocks> hi :)
<didrocks> I am Didier Roche from France.
<didrocks> I started using Linux with Red Hat 6 in 1999 and ubuntu since the warty release (
<didrocks> 4.10)
<didrocks> #
<didrocks> I am involved in french ubuntu-fr loco team as a member of the administration team and part of the chair (as the secretary) of ubuntu-fr french association.
<didrocks> (oupsss, sorry for the paste and copy)
<didrocks> I am also the author of Simple Comme Ubuntu, free book (under CC:By-Sa licence)
<didrocks> This book is always updated with the last version of Ubuntu. A version to be integrated with Dell PC is in preparation.
<didrocks> contribute to french documentation and wrote some wiki pages
<didrocks> I also went in Africa for 1 month with a non-governemental organisation, Africedu : (project 2006: Lome, capital city of Togo), shipping in a school 60 computers set up with Ubuntu 5.10 (and upgraded there to 6.06 from on old hard drive!). We made some training there.
<didrocks> My main goal now is to promote Ubuntu in France, and particularly in Paris with Ubuntu Party. This is why I am one of the main organizers of Ubuntu events in Paris (like "Ubuntu Gutsy" and recently "Ubuntu Hardy"). In November 2007, 3rd & 4th: Gutsy Party was and amazed party with more than 3 000 visitors in two days.
<didrocks> Finally, I try to represent the French community at big events (like RMLL, Linux Solution, FÃªte de l'humanitÃ©, http://paris-libre.org/) or smaller one (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braderie_de_Lille and LibreAcces, festival of free music in Paris where people can download the music from Ubuntu workstation)
<didrocks> I am also a mentee in the MOTU mentorship process and begin to package in Ubuntu (see DidierRoche/MOTU/bugsaction)
<didrocks> Gave with huats also a talk in the last UbuntuDeveloperWeek#The%20Timetable about patching packages.
<lifeless> do you know ddaa?
<didrocks> I think that's it :)
<didrocks> lifeless: hum, no, sorry, who is he?
<lifeless> David Allouche, he was canonicals first french employee :P
<didrocks> hum, ok, by name (Nicolas Barcet spoke about him)
<didrocks> but not personnaly
<lifeless> cool
<lifeless> just asking :)
<didrocks> lifeless: np ;)
<aamachu> didrocks: rocks really :-)
<lifeless> anyhow, questions for didrocks ?
<didrocks> aamachu: hehe, thanks (the rocks is only a derived of "Roche", not for "rocking" :))
<aamachu> ;-)
<nijaba> yes, didrocks is a really cool contributor, whom rocks has his last name suggests!
<aamachu> elky: TheMuso: questions?
<didrocks> thx nijaba :)
<TheMuso> aamachu: Not from me./
<aamachu> elky: there?
<elky> yep. +1
<aamachu> didrocks: +1 from me too..
<TheMuso> +1 from me also.
<lifeless> +1
<didrocks> thanks to all \o/
<nizarus> congratulations didrocks
<didrocks> nizarus: as for you nizarus :)
<aamachu> didrocks: all the best and keep rocking :-)
<didrocks> aamachu: for sure, will try ^^
 * nijaba applauses
<nizarus> didrocks, ;)
<ara> congrats didrocks!
 * didrocks hugs everyone (yes, now that I am in the hugging word) :)
<didrocks> s/word/world
<aamachu> didrocks: The wiki portrays you work clean :-)
<aamachu> fine...
<aamachu> ara: its your time now
<ara> ok, thanks aamachu
<ara>  I am Ara, from Spain.
<ara> I have been using Linux since 1998, Ubuntu since Feisty.
<ara> I am part of the Canonical QA Team, focused on the Desktop tests automation (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation/Desktop)
<ara> I have started the Ubuntu Desktop Testing project, http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-desktop-testing, which aims to create a nice framework to run & write desktop tests for Ubuntu
<ara> based in LDTP, an automation framework based on the AT-SPI layer. For that reason, I keep an active communication with the upstream team of LDTP
<ara> Also, as part of this effort, I participated in the Ubuntu Developer Week with a testing automation session: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek
<ara> I maintaing a blog about Ubuntu testing: http://ubuntutesting.wordpress.com/, that is on planet LDTP and planet.ubuntu-women.org
<ara> One of my main goals is to get new people to the testing community
<ara> For that, I try to keep the documentation in the wiki up to date to help people getting involved in Ubuntu testing automation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation/Desktop/HowToUseTestingLibrary
<ara> Also, we are starting to organize ubuntu testing days
<ara> Yesterday we organize our first Testing day, but we are planning to organize one for every development release
<ara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/20080922
<ara> also, i am daily in #ubuntu-qa and #ubuntu-testing, for support and coordinating testing efforts
<ara> s/#ubuntu-qa/#ubuntu-quality
<ara> I think that's it for me :-)
<aamachu> ara: How frequent are you planning to have the UbuntuTestingDay?
<aamachu> every Deelopment Release?
<ara> aamachu: we want to have it for every development release, yes
<ara> aamachu: first was for alpha6, next one will be for beta release
<heno> (so every milestone in fact)
<ara> heno: yep
<elky> is this an extention of the isotesting stuff?
<aamachu> ara: ok
<ara> elky: what exactly?
<ara> it is like hugdays for the bugsquad activity. this would be "our" hugday in the iso testing world :-)
<elky> ara, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO
<ara> yes, see above
<lifeless> ara: did I meet you in prague perhaps ?
<ara> lifeless: I was there :-) so yes, maybe :-)
<TheMuso> I met ara at the London office in July.
<ara> TheMuso: yes, in the kitchen in fact :-)
<leoquant> lol
<aamachu> :-)
<lifeless> anyhow, +1
<TheMuso> ara: Yes.
<TheMuso> +1 also.
<lifeless> though its kindof on the should-be-motu line for me, its a clear contribution
<aamachu> ara: awaiting for info on next session at #ubuntu-classroom
<elky> agreed, +1
<aamachu> +1 from me too
<aamachu> Welcome ara!
<ara> thanks all :-)
<didrocks> congrats ara :-)
<aamachu> so let me call other two, svaksha & amireldor?
<aamachu> and appears Asia Oceania Board meeting facilitates EMEA more ;-)
<nizarus_> thx aamachu for your wonderful job
<aamachu> elky: TheMuso: lifeless: anything else to share?
<TheMuso> Not from me.
<elky> nope
<aamachu> nizarus: Welcome :-)
<lifeless> all good
<aamachu> ok fine then..
<didrocks> thanks to all for having facilitated the EMEA board :)
<ara> yes, thank you!
<aamachu> thank you every one participating...
<aamachu> ara: didrocks: nizarus: Welcoming all of you yet again!
<aamachu> Lets keep rocking..
<nizarus_> don't worry aamachu :)
<didrocks> aamachu: :)
<aamachu> Our next meeting on 01 Oct 2008, 11.00 AM UTC
<aamachu> elky: lifeless: TheMuso: Bye
<lifeless> ciao
<ara> bye, bye
<Keybuk> mdz: ?
<Keybuk> no TB today, mdz cannot make it
 * ogra wonders why TB still doesnt show up on the fridge cal ...
<ogra> i mailed them weeks ago and they agreed to put it up
<zul> hello
<sommer> yo
<nealmcb> o/
<kirkland> howdy ya'll
<zul>  jambo bwana
<soren> o/
<mathiaz> all right folks
<mathiaz> thanks for being around a see yall next week, same time, same place
<kirkland> adios
<nijaba> o/
<sommer> heeh
<zul> kwahari bwana
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * nealmcb cheers for mootbot
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> Last week minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080916
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu vm builder
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu vm builder
<mathiaz> soren: how is it going ?
<soren> Good, thank you.
<soren> :)
<mathiaz> soren: awesome - ready for the next phase ?
<soren> Err... I honestly don't remember what changed since last week.
<mathiaz> soren: have you written a blog post ?
<soren> Yeah. I've finally posted the blog thing, so with a bit of luck, the bug reports should start trickling in now.
<mathiaz> nijaba: what about the tutorial ?
<mathiaz> sommer: have you looked at the virtualization section update ?
<sommer> mathiaz: should be pretty much good to go
<sommer> mathiaz: after soren's blog, it needs something about xen though
<sommer> at least a wink and a nod :)
<mathiaz> sommer: excellent.
<nijaba> mathiaz: I have not have time to move a lot on it while at VMworld, but I have worked a bit on VMbuilder so that missing functions that I need are now there
<mathiaz> nijaba: great - so you consider it feature equivalent to ubuntu-vm-builder ?
<mathiaz> soren: ^^ ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: I need to do a final check, but yes, I beleive it will be
<mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to update the virtulization section with a reference to xen in vm-builder
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to update the virtulization section with a reference to xen in vm-builder
<soren> mathiaz: It still neeeds a few things, but it will be really soon.
<nijaba> mathiaz: Soren was also talking about providing a wrapper to uvb to call the new one seemlessly
<soren> Right.
<mathiaz> ok - anything else to add on vm-builder ?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
<mathiaz> kirkland: reviewed the RAID section ?
<sommer> yeppers
<kirkland> mathiaz: return true;
<mathiaz> Koon: what about tomcat ?
<mathiaz> sommer: and I still haven't looked at the ldap section
<Koon> section drafted, reviewed and uploaded by sommer
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to review the ldap section of the server guide
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to review the ldap section of the server guide
 * soren apologises for keeping people waiting. I had a knock on the door :(
<mathiaz> sommer: anything else on the documentation front ?
<sommer> I think things are pretty much good to go
<sommer> had a question about the automatic security updates?
<sommer> does that use cron, unattended-upgrades?
<mathiaz> sommer: I think it installs unattended-upgrade
<sommer> mathiaz: I didn't see it during my testing
<mathiaz> sommer: not sure though.
<nijaba> sommer: yes it does
<mathiaz> sommer: you could ask the installer team about it
<mathiaz> sommer: or look at the code
<sommer> mathiaz: where is the code?
<mathiaz> kirkland: do you remember the name of the component in d-i ?
<nijaba> sommer: all of it is in the cron it install, IIRC
<sommer> cause I'm pretty sure I selected automatic security updates, and didn't see unattended-upgrades installed
<mathiaz> kirkland: it's the same one that deals with landscape-client
<sommer> nijaba: ah, I might be looking in the wrong place then
<nijaba> sommer: then that sounds like a non working feature
<nijaba> because I believe u-a should be installed as a result
<sommer> nijaba: that's cool, I'll update the installation section to that affect
<mathiaz> sommer: I can't find it anymore
<sommer> mathiaz: no problem I can do some digging later
<mathiaz> sommer: I'd go to #ubuntu-installer and ask about it there
<kirkland> mathiaz: pkgsel
<sommer> mathiaz: will do
<mathiaz> sommer: ^^ pkgsel
<mathiaz> kirkland: do you have branch url somewhere ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: ??? apt-get source pkgsel
<kirkland> mathiaz: bzr get http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/pkgsel/ubuntu
<mathiaz> kirkland: ah right - I'm always looking at the bzr branch :D
<mathiaz> sommer: anyway - there is good chance you'll find the code above ^^
<mathiaz> sommer: anything else for the documentation ?
<sommer> mathiaz: I think that's it
<kirkland> sommer: if you do find a bug, file it against pkgsel and subscribe me
<sommer> kirkland: okay
<mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to look into the security updates part of the installer to figure out what it does exactly and document it
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to look into the security updates part of the installer to figure out what it does exactly and document it
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] nagios3 in main
<MootBot> New Topic:  nagios3 in main
<mathiaz> Koon: ^ ?
<Koon> mathiaz: no good so far, had trouble getting a hold on archive admins. nijaba resent a mail recently
<Koon> MIR/archive-fixing work is less priority than Ffe processing at that point
<Koon> if nobody moves on the email, i'll ping them tomorrow
<mathiaz> Koon: have you checked if nagios3 was seeded somewhere ?
<Koon> mathiaz: it's not. nagios2 is still in server-ship
<mathiaz> Koon: right - so we need to fix that.
<Koon> mathiaz: in which order ?
<mathiaz> Koon: IIRC we came to the conclusion that we wouldn't need a MIR for nagios3.
<Koon> so we can just fix the seed ?
<mathiaz> Koon: well - that step 5 according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<mathiaz> Koon: step 6 is when the archive admin actually does the move from universe to main
<Koon> mathiaz: ok, so someone with powerz[tm] needs to fix the seed to do s/nagios2/nagios3
<mathiaz> Koon: ok - I can do that
<Koon> (there still is the problem with hardy but that's outside the scope of this agenda item)
<mathiaz> Koon: I think we should still file a bug explaining why nagios3 doesn't need a MIR
 * mathiaz nods
<Koon> mathiaz: i can do that
<mathiaz> Koon: and point to the MIR for nagios2
<Koon> (tomorrow)
<mathiaz> Koon: great - once done ping pitti or doko so that can approve the bug
<mathiaz> Koon: so that the archive admin can process the bug quickly
<mathiaz> Koon: once you've filed the bug I'll update the seed.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] Koon to file a bug explaining the state of nagios3, subscribe ubuntu-mir to it and get approved
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Koon to file a bug explaining the state of nagios3, subscribe ubuntu-mir to it and get approved
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to update the server-ship to use nagios3 instead of nagios2
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to update the server-ship to use nagios3 instead of nagios2
<mathiaz> Anything else from last week meeting ?
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Beta Freeze
<MootBot> New Topic:  Beta Freeze
<mathiaz> As you may know we're preparing for the Beta release of intrepid
<mathiaz> that is schedule for Thursday next week
<mathiaz> so we'll enter Beta Freeze this thursday
<mathiaz> That means iso testing will be more than welcomed
<mathiaz> #ubuntu-testing is the place to hang out to follow the daily builds
<mathiaz> The testing team will probably use a two phase approach:
<mathiaz> with the first batch of isos produced this week used for smoke testing
<mathiaz> and then another batch of isos produced early next week
<nxvl> mathiaz: do we have bugs milestoned for beta?
<mathiaz> nxvl: yes - but I don't find the url right now
<mathiaz> nxvl: I'll ask aroung and put the url in the minutes
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> :D
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
<mathiaz> something to add ?
<zul> mathiaz: ill poke slangasek about that patch for samba 3.2.4 today
<nijaba> Server survey should be up by tomorrow
<wst> ebox is completely broken in intrepid
<wst> are there any plans to fix that?
<mathiaz> wst: have you tried to version from the ebox-dev ppa ?
<wst> no will do that
<mathiaz> nijaba: are you in touch with the marketing team ?
<mathiaz> nijaba: is the launch plan up-to-date ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: a bit, was about to send them an announce.
<mathiaz> wst: great - foolano asked for sponsoring of ebox into universe
<mathiaz> wst: IIRC he was uploading the package to a PPA
<nijaba> mathiaz: yes, the plan is up to date, AFAIK and Canonical is issuing a press release
<mathiaz> zul: great - keep in mind that Thursday is Beta Freeze
<foolano> mathiaz: yep, they are in our PPA. I have to run some automatic tests to see if there's any issue with the latest uploads
<zul> mathiaz: yep
<mathiaz> zul: but it's not a big issue if 3.2.4 gets in after Beta
<mathiaz> foolano: do you have url for the PPA ?
<zul> mathiaz: its --><-- this close
<wst> just found it launchpad.net/~ebox-unstable
<foolano> that's it
<mathiaz> wst: foolano: great - could you report if things are working correctly ?
<foolano> sure, i'm gonna run the tests right away
<mathiaz> Anything else to add ?
<wst> will try, never used ebox before actually but will see what happens
<sommer> foolano: I just started getting into the ebox code, but if there's anything I can do to help, feel free to ping me
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
<nealmcb> I finally posted minutes from the server team meeting a few weeks ago, fwiw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080819
<mathiaz> nealmcb: great ! Did you send them to the ubuntu-server@ ml ?
<nealmcb> nice to see mootbot back - good to have a friend :)
<nealmcb> mathiaz: time has moved on... but if you think it would be helpful
<foolano> sommer: thanks, I'm writing a new tutorial, more like a step-by-step guide
<mathiaz> nealmcb: true - at least it's on the wiki page.
<nealmcb> yup
<mathiaz> nealmcb: I may push them to the server blog though
<nealmcb> nothing seems to still be useful for a current topic.  that sounds good
<nealmcb> helps to have the history anyway
 * mathiaz nods
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
<mathiaz> same time, same place, next week ?
<sommer> sure
<kirkland> mathiaz: can i add one thing?
<mathiaz> kirkland: sure
<kirkland> mathiaz: thought it might be worth mentioning that you posted a poll last week to ubuntu-server@ ML
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - I haven't set up a pool in LP
<kirkland> mathiaz: no, but you asked for feedback on the ML
<mathiaz> kirkland: but send out a request for feedback for the encrypted directory step in the installer
<mathiaz> kirkland: do you want to add something in the meeting ?
<mathiaz> kirkland: we may run out of time
<kirkland> mathiaz: oh, sorry, just "vote!"
<kirkland> ;-)
<mathiaz> kirkland: It seems that discussion is still going on the ml
<kirkland> that's all
<mathiaz> great - so see you all next week
<mathiaz> same time, same place
<nealmcb> thanks!
<mathiaz> thanks for coming and happy beta testing !
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:59.
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later all
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-24
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 25 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 25 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 25 Sep 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 26 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Release | 29 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 25 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 25 Sep 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 26 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Release | 29 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 30 Sep 15:00: Server Team
<cking> sit-
<cking> sit-
<bryce> morning
<evand> good morning
<ArneGoetje> howdy
<james_w> hello everyone, is it that time again?
<TheMuso> Yes it is.
<calc> hello
<cjwatson> good afternoon
<TheMuso> Good $Time_Of_Day.
<asac> hi all
<liw> hi
 * slangasek waves
<cjwatson> doko: around?
<doko> yes
<cjwatson> I have been slack and not written up last week's meeting yet; sorry about that
<cjwatson> I'll try to extract actions from the log on the fly
<cjwatson> so, outstanding actions
<cjwatson> Chris to upload openoffice.org3 to the ~openoffice-pkgs PPA
<cjwatson> calc: you said this would be done by this meeting ...?
<calc> cjwatson: still outstanding unfortunately, however i am in progress on it
<calc> cjwatson: i got 2.4.1-9ubuntu1 done and in the archive, and working on the 3.0 debs as we speak
<cjwatson> this has been dragging for some time now; would help from somebody else be valuable to get it closed out by the end of the week?
<calc> cjwatson: i'm still without power so working off my much slower (than desktop) laptop
<cjwatson> thanks for 2.4.1-9ubuntu1
<liw> calc, I can give you access to my desktop machine if that helps
<calc> it would be helpful to have someone with enough space to test them once i get them uploaded to the ppa
<cjwatson> thanks for fixing those two RC bugs, too
<calc> i don't really have enough spare space to setup a vm and test them out on my laptop :\
<cjwatson> (104685, 106546)
<calc> liw: ok :)
<cjwatson> oh yes, how about I use mootbot, that would help
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:06. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<calc> liw: i'll see how it goes but i think i can get it done without trouble, just need testing
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  outstanding actions
<liw> calc, ok, talk to me if you need it
<cjwatson> [ACTION] liw to give calc access to desktop machine for OOo builds
<MootBot> ACTION received:  liw to give calc access to desktop machine for OOo builds
<cjwatson> [ACTION] calc to upload 3.0 to PPA by end of week
<MootBot> ACTION received:  calc to upload 3.0 to PPA by end of week
<calc> i had been going off the bad estimate last week that we would have power by this past monday, they keep shoving the time estimate back every time they update :(
<cjwatson> I appreciate the problem there; hopefully some remote hardware assistance will be enough to get past it
<calc> cjwatson: yea it should help :)
<cjwatson> I think that's the only outstanding action I can see
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] items from activity reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  items from activity reports
<cjwatson> doko: missing current report from you, I think
<cjwatson> doko: your last report mentioned a problem with OpenJDK's compiler targetting Java 1.6 bytecode right now, which breaks older VMs; would it be useful to discuss this here?
<asac> cjwatson: the other action was MIR for broadband wizard stuff. its drafted and pitti will do it by tomorrow
<cjwatson> asac: oh yes, I skipped that since I knew it had been done from your side ;-)
<liw> calc, I can give you access to one or more VMs as well, ssh+vnc, so you can test things directly, even
<asac> cjwatson: ok ;)
<calc> liw: ok
<calc> i think i may have enough space here now that i can safely delete the 2.4.1 build files
<cjwatson> doko: ... ping?
<doko> cjwatson: hmm, somebody removed the milestone (slowly typing ...)
<cjwatson> understood, just wanted to check you hadn't missed it
<doko> currently disscussing this with the opnjdk guys and with michael koch. I'd like to see this fixed. the time consuming option to build ant and all runtime deps explicitely with -target 1.4
<doko> otoh I'm evaluating if having an openjdk defaulting to 1.4 or 1.5 would be ok
<cjwatson> what 1.4-only VMs do we have in the archive?
<cjwatson> or are you thinking of extra-archive compatibility as well?
<doko> yes the latter
<doko> blackdown is still thre?
<cjwatson> also, what do we lose by targeting 1.4?
<doko> this is the question
<cjwatson> I was hoping for an answer ;-)
<doko> yes, I'm trying to get one as well ;)
<cjwatson> I think we need that before being able to work out what to do, really
<cjwatson> [ACTION] doko to extract information about what we lose by targeting Java 1.4 and report back
<MootBot> ACTION received:  doko to extract information about what we lose by targeting Java 1.4 and report back
<cjwatson> ok, the next question was from bryce
<cjwatson> * What should we do with acpi-support?
<bryce> right
<cjwatson> my understanding has been that acpi-support is supposed to be superseded by hal/pm-utils; I think the reason it hasn't been ejected from the archive is simply that nobody has yet done the hard work of going through all of the quirks in acpi-support and verifying that they've been preserved (or adding them, as appropriate)
<cjwatson> without that, binning acpi-support runs the risk of introducing all kinds of hardware-specific regressions
<cjwatson> but I think it would be valuable work to do
<cjwatson> does anyone else have understanding that's more complete than this?
<bryce> well, my question was more about in the near term.  I've been pulling in changes from debian's package (there's quite a few)
<slangasek> well, I know my wireless key is only handled by acpi-support, so that's more than just a risk of regression
<bryce> so I'm wondering if I should continue with that, or if it's just a waste of time if we're going to bin it in jaunty anyway
<slangasek> I'm not sure what package would take over the logic from /usr/share/acpi-support/state-funcs for that...
<cjwatson> we should be using the Debian changes as a base for the merge into pm-utils anyway ...
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> assuming they represent improvements :)
<cjwatson> so I don't think it's lost work to merge them
<bryce> ok, I'll upload what I've done so far, and keep poking at it as time permits
<cjwatson> would you say that the changes outstanding from Debian are mostly new quirks, or are there major restructurings?
<bryce> both
<cjwatson> I'm wondering what the QA impact of merging this is; I suspect that it will be a very, very good idea to have this done before beta
<bryce> I've avoided the major restructurings so far
<bryce> since there's a lot of hardware-specificness, QAing the changes is hard, but the worst case situation is more hotkeys regressing
<cjwatson> bryce: do you feel you're comfortable with what you need to get done for beta, then?
<cjwatson> I believe pitti has worked on pm-utils before and can offer advice
<bryce> yeah I think so
<cjwatson> ok, thanks
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Milestoned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Milestoned bugs
<bryce> I won't have time to get into pm-utils but I can merge in more bits from acpi-support
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1325
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1325
<cjwatson> so, of the ones that apply to us and aren't fix-committed:
<cjwatson> asac: 270429
<asac> bug 270429
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270429 in xulrunner "[MASTER] passwords lost from 3.0.1 to 3.0.2" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270429
<asac> cjwatson: haha ... yeah. hard upstream regression
<asac> but data is at least not lost
<asac> cjwatson: all fine its certainly on track and i am monitoring this
<asac> (reported today)
<jdstrand> actually, it seems it sometimes works...
<asac> jdstrand: it works if you dont have non-ascii things in your store
<cjwatson> well, passwords are sometimes data
<asac> cjwatson: no ... they are not lost. they are just not seen atm
<jdstrand> asac: anywhere or certain fields?
<asac> so its no real dataloss ... thats what i mean
<jdstrand> s/fields/sites/
<asac> once the fix lands they will be recovered automatically
<cjwatson> oh, I see
<cjwatson> ok, that's something, glad to know it's being worked on upstream
<cjwatson> asac: any progress on 256054?
<asac> jdstrand: I should be a bit clearer here on the impact here. The bug is caused by invalid UTF-8 data in the password store. Not all users will
<asac> +be affected, but many who have stored logins with non-ASCII data (hostname/HTTP realm/username/password) in them will.
<asac> cjwatson: no. thats the only bug i would say has a risk of not making beta.
<asac> cjwatson: but if nothing unexpected happens i will have a fix for beta
<cjwatson> that's the experimental ifupdown plugin?
<cjwatson> any particular testing you'd like on that?
<asac> cjwatson: anyone who has a interfaces setup could try what happens when enabling it
<asac> and if it doesnt work, post a bug
<slangasek> how do we enable it?  is the information in that bug?
<asac> it will no cover _all_ fancy interfaces setups, but the standard setups should work
<asac> slangasek: i can add that info the bug description. (its in the last comment from me)
<asac> but maybe to repeat the options we have:
<cjwatson> You could try the experiemental ifupdown plugin. just append ,ifupdown
<cjwatson> to the plugins= line in /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf
<cjwatson> and restart your system.
<asac> 1. write a simple plugin that makes all interfaces unmanaged and keep the full-ifupdown support not enabled
<cjwatson> (from asac in that bug)
<asac> by default
<asac> 2. introduce a interfaces stanza parameter "nm-managed" which defaults to false
<asac> 2. solution is simpler and quicker to do, but we would need to teach ifupdown to not manage "nm-managed" interfaces
<cjwatson> which is starting to get complicated, requiring fiddly configuration file migration and such
<asac> 1. is cleaner
<asac> cjwatson: well. currently configurations in interfaces are not managed
<asac> since gutsy
<asac> so i dont think we need to migrate them
<asac> actually 1. was the solutino i suggested. that would put the full ifupdown plugin in  separate package which conflicts ifupdown
<asac> to reflect that those dont work together
<asac> and the default install would ship the disable-all-plugin
<asac> so my idea was to do 1. ... 2. would be fine with me if people like that more
<cjwatson> actually, is there a problem with doing both? :-)
<cjwatson> and then people can have 2. as an option in case 1. is too difficult for them to arrange
<cjwatson> maybe that's overkill
<asac> cjwatson: both sounds like overkill
<cjwatson> I think this needs to be taken to ubuntu-devel@ if you haven't already; it's getting too long for this meeting
<asac> sure
<asac> will carry it there
<cjwatson> asac: sorry lots of these are on you, but do you know who's working on 259278, if anyone?
<cjwatson> looking at the log it seems to be somewhat in limbo, but is milestoned
<asac> cjwatson: i think thats because i did a lot of bugwork ... reshuffeling my milestone targets
<asac> cjwatson: there is a opensuse guy working on it
<asac> cjwatson: last week he said that he will have something this week
<cjwatson> it does indeed sort of imply that most other people aren't milestoning enough ;-)
<cjwatson> ok, just wanted to check for the release meeting
<cjwatson> the last one seems to be 182004, which I am working on
<asac> cjwatson: i will try to chat with him again to see how much work he thinks is left for knetworkmanager
<cjwatson> I suspect the fix will in fact be quick and dirty, by marking individual questions as unseen, rather than a more "correct" approach which would also be riskier
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Targeted bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Targeted bugs
<asac> maybe one good news: NM 0.7 will most likely be final for release. we are currently definining the RC bugs upstream. so if anyone has issues that he really wants to see fixed, give me the launchpad bug id
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
<cjwatson> asac: oh, that is good news
<cjwatson> I don't think we'll get through all the targeted bugs, but maybe a few of them
<cjwatson> bryce: 197680
<cjwatson> oh, and 244413
<bryce> the first one I need to re-test, but it may still be an issue; I'll look into it more.  It's not a regression though
<bryce> more of a wish for functionality that ought to be working by now.  ;-)
<bryce> the latter, 244413. I was waiting on comment back from the user since I don't have the corresponding hardware
<cjwatson> I see 255008 has allegedly recurred; looks like it needs some more analysis
<bryce> probably neither bug needs to be milestoned really; there's much more important issues
<cjwatson> they aren't milestoned, at any rate not for alpha, but they're high-priority and targeted to intrepid
<cjwatson> s/alpha/beta/
<cjwatson> 267884 (pkgsel redownloads package lists unnecessarily) *is* a bug because we thought we'd nailed down all of that for hardy
<cjwatson> s/a bug/important/
<bryce> I'll take another pass at both, and un-target them if it looks like there's nothing that can be done safely for beta.
<cjwatson> I think fixing it is going to involve messy fiddling about in /var/lib/apt/lists/ though :-(
<cjwatson> otherwise I think we're out of time for targeted bugs
<cjwatson> any other business?
<cjwatson> including good news if anyone has any
<cjwatson> sorry, I wish I could manage more than two minutes for AOB
<asac> maybe the EULA bug resolution ;) ... not sure if everyone thinks its a good outcome
<asac> i will post a few screenshots of what we rolled out now
<cjwatson> I think it could have been a lot worse
<asac> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17877769/firstrun.png
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17877769/firstrun.png
<asac> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17877774/about_rights.png
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17877774/about_rights.png
<asac> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17877776/about_rights_expanded.png
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17877776/about_rights_expanded.png
<cjwatson> "your rights" is so much better as a presentation than a EULA
<evand> imo, much better
<asac> yes. and we also have it in a notification bar
<slangasek> good news> in talking with mdz, it came to my attention that it might not be common knowledge that the next release of Project Athena was being based on hardy
<asac> (like in firstrun.png)
<slangasek> http://web.mit.edu/release/www/athena10/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://web.mit.edu/release/www/athena10/
<cjwatson> and it's clearly about the services now, not about the browser itself
<cjwatson> slangasek: I didn't even know it still existed!
<slangasek> :-)
<cjwatson> (wikipedia says it ended in 1991)
<cjwatson> all right, well, let's call it a day here, then
<cjwatson> beta freeze tomorrow, so good luck to all
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<asac> thanks all ... sorry for taking all the time on milestones :)
<evand> thanks
<liw> thanks
<slangasek> thanks
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<asac> slangasek: one suggestion: could you include in your announcements a approx. time when freezes get instantiated?
<slangasek> asac: according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule, freezes "normally happen at the start of the day, UTC"
<asac> ok
<slangasek> asac: this is... not always adhered to rigorously, but is a good planning target for people trying to get in before the freeze :)
<asac> slangasek: yeah. i missed that obvious bullet-point on the schedule page ;)
<asac> and my empirical data gives me no rule ;)
<cjwatson> oh yes
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:06.
<davmor2> Hello Everybody :)
<ara> hello
<schwuk> Evening
<pedro_> hey hey!
 * ogasawara waves
<heno> hey!
 * intellectronica coughs
<bdmurray> hi!
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davmor2> Yay The bot is back :)
<heno> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<intellectronica> gee, good thing i started showing up for this meetings. otherwise you wouldn't have what to talk about :P
<heno> heh
<heno> [TOPIC] Bug searching API is now available on edge for your testing pleasure (intellectronica).
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug searching API is now available on edge for your testing pleasure (intellectronica).
<intellectronica> tadaaam
<intellectronica> so, finally, searching for bugs using the API is available on edge
<ara> intellectronica: cool :-)
<bdmurray> yeah!
<intellectronica> this is a fairly complex function, so lots of testing is necessary
 * heno (adds an item to the agenda as well)
<intellectronica> so, hit it as hard as you can, and let me know when it breaks
<bdmurray> heh, that sounds like a challenge
<sbeattie> intellectronica: where is the API documented?
<ara> intellectronica: where's the API doc? (sorry if this is a trivial question)
<intellectronica> sbeattie: it isn't really. you should be able to get the WSDL for it, and i'll try to write some documentation on the wiki
<ara> or duplicated...
<ara> :D
<intellectronica> the method itself is searchTasks, and you can call it on the normal things that have bugs (like distros, projects, distro packages, etc'...)
<heno> so just hammer the server with random strings to decipher the API ;)
<pedro_> lol
<intellectronica> ara: https://edge.launchpad.net/+apidoc
<heno> ok, moving on
<heno> [TOPIC] Sell the bugzilla or trac LP plugins to an upstream, get a beer (intellectronica)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sell the bugzilla or trac LP plugins to an upstream, get a beer (intellectronica)
<ara> which pub?
<heno> jcastro: around?
<intellectronica> just a reminder that we now have plugins for both trac and bugzilla, which allow syncing comments
<intellectronica> if you know of any upstreams which use bugzilla or trac (and where you have some contact with the admins) why don't you ask them to install those plugins
<pedro_> FYI: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-bugsquad/2008-August/msg00001.html
<bdmurray> they require a specific version of bugzilla?
<heno> Is there a sample bug or demo of this working in practice?
<pedro_> that's a comment from Olav Vitters the gnome bugzilla admin
<intellectronica> bdmurray: yes. > 3.0
<pedro_> that's one of the issues there...
<intellectronica> heno: as far as i know we've only had tests of this on staging, which is wiped periodically. i can definitely arrange that if necessary, and as of the next release we should have a few projects that use it and are visible on the production servers
<jcastro> heno: yep!
<jcastro> heno: Olav and I had discussions about this at guadec.
<heno> jcastro: are there plans to approach other upstreams?
<jcastro> heno: But they are not moving to bugzilla 3.x just yet, he mentioned that once they get a developer instance of it running that they would be interested in helping test.
<jcastro> yes in the past we tried to do a closed run where I would invite upstreams to come test but that wasn't very successfull
<jcastro> after that we just announced that anyone can be welcome to test.
<heno> perhaps we should talk to the maintainers of bugzilla and trac themselves to get it shipped with their releases (if we haven't already)
<jcastro> but unfortunately there wasn't much traction there
<intellectronica> heno: that's a nice idea
<jcastro> the GNOME bugzilla 3.x transition isn't coming up anytime soon so I was going to wait for them to get a test server up and then repropose.
<heno> ogasawara: the kernel uses bugzilla, is that run by Natalie?
<bdmurray> heno: its 2.2 something
<jcastro> yeah, a large number of upstream bugzillas are 2.x
<heno> I suspect they may not be interested in comments directly from our users either
<ogasawara> heno:  what bdmurray said.  she maintains the bugs, but I don't think is responsible for the actual admining
<pedro_> how many upstream projects out there are using bugzilla 3 ?
<pedro_> i mean the large ones , firefox, freedesktop, etc?
<heno> we have several times more open kernel bugs than kernel.org AFAIR
<jcastro> fdo is bugzilla 3.x
<bdmurray> I seem to recall a couple of kernel guys maintaing it
<ogasawara> heno:  another thing to note is that a lot of kernel bugs are reported and deal with directly on the mailing lists
<pedro_> yeah just saw it version 3.0.3
<ogasawara> heno:  and until we have a vanilla kernel PPA in place, I suspect upstream won't want the extra noise
<heno> IMO we should prepare a menu of options for ways/levels to collaborate with us on wrt bugs, that we can present to all upstreams
<heno> bug day participation, bug tracker integration, bug contact, mothly summary report of bugs in their packages, etc
<heno> instead of approaching them all N times with different requests
<heno> [silence]
 * davmor2 isn't that golden
<sbeattie> ogasawara: isn't arjan willing to take ksymoops reports from us, or is that only for -vanilla kernels as well? Does he not maintain kernel bugzilla?
<heno> jcastro, pedro_: can you guys make a list of options like that?
<heno> a wiki page with the options explained and whot to contact to set it up
<bdmurray> sbeattie: its hosted by the linux foundation
<ogasawara> sbeattie: the kerneloops is sort of a separate project, but yes he is willing to take stats from our Ubuntu kernels
<pedro_> heno: yup
<heno> thanks!
<heno> ok, let's move on
<heno> [TOPIC] Release report for Friday
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release report for Friday
<heno> I won't be there (as I'm on holiday)
<sbeattie> I'll be there.
<heno> sbeattie, bdmurray: can you both look at getting that in shape?
<heno> regressions and other hot bugs
<ogasawara> sbeattie:  I'm sure one of the hot topics will be the e1000e driver issue
<heno> indeed
<bdmurray> heno: sure
<heno> that's already on the release team's radar, and arguably something we should have flagged sooner in a report
<sbeattie> heno: AFAIK, it was not onanyone's radar until this week.
<heno> when in doubt about whether a serious bug you are aware of should go on that list, please consult other QA members for an opinion
<sbeattie> what's the state of hardware testing?
<heno> sbeattie: I and ogasawara knew about it
<ogasawara> it was on the kernel team's radar and mine since it was reported
<heno> so I'm looking at my own procedures for this sort of thing
<sbeattie> heno: one point of contention is that it took us a bit to pull alpha6
<heno> sbeattie: it would have been on your list had not the kernel team removed the regression tag :)
<sbeattie> heh
<ogasawara> yes, I think the urgency/seriousness for escalating fell short
<davmor2> sbeattie: what?
<heno> so, anyone else have any serious bugs in mind?
<heno> (a question we should ask each meeting until release)
 * davmor2 looks through bug reports
<heno> please add issues to the release report list as they turn up
<bdmurray> not I
<davmor2> heno: Ndiswrapper no longer seems to work I've kicked and screamed at it but nothing. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ndiswrapper/+bug/268625
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 268625 in ndiswrapper "Intrepid: Regression Ndiswrapper is broken by b43 driver again" [Undecided,New]
<heno> that bug has no status or importance yet
<heno> does it need any debugging info?
<davmor2> I've no idea and I don't know what info from where either
<heno> we should try to get the bug reports from our own testers in better shape sooner
<sbeattie> heno: I'm hoping the very recent modprobe speedup will address bug 258432 for me; otherwise I think it ought to get escalated.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258432 in casper "Intrepid 4 live cd drops to busybox, needs more time to  find CD livefs" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258432
<heno> bdmurray: can you work with davmor2 to get his existing reports properly triaged?
<davmor2> I got to go now I'll see about what info is needed and from where tomorrow
<bdmurray> heno: sure
<davmor2> bdmurray: Thanks
<heno> sbeattie: I've raised it's importance - do you have bug-control powers?
<heno> ah, I see you do
<heno> sbeattie: feel free to set the importance on such bugs
<sbeattie> sure, thanks.
<bdmurray> Bugs can be new and have an importance as far as I'm concerned
<heno> perhaps that should appear on the regression and SRU pages as well
<heno> agree
<sbeattie> heno: the importance, you mean? Yeah, I'd just been thinking of adding that.
<heno> most SRU and regression bugs will be High or Critical I guess, but still
<heno> any other business?
<sbeattie> mmm, I've seen some low ones go through, IIRC, but get caught in rollups with other bugs.
<bdmurray> sbeattie: have you checked with cjwatson about it?
<bdmurray> your bug that is.
<heno> sbeattie: and those are ones we should question I think, as any fix can cause a problem
<sbeattie> bdmurray: not yet
<heno> or at least not prioritise in SRU verification
<sbeattie> heno: agreed on both counts. Need to add sorting by column to those webpages.
<heno> yep. again, check with bryce on that
<sbeattie> Re the move to testcases.qa.ubuntu.com, is https://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu/Applications the right place to propose new apps for testing?
<sbeattie> e.g. evince (gnome pdf viewer) probably ought to be on that list.
<heno> yes, perhaps in a separate table though
<heno> the current table should go away when the migration is complete
<heno> ara, schwuk: how is that proceeding?
<sbeattie> also, how do we wish to handle testcases that could apply to multiple apps?
<ara> heno: which current talbe?
<heno> sbeattie: an example?
<sbeattie> e.g. sample pdfs for kpdf and evince
<ara> s/talbe/table
<heno> ara: the one listing pages to move from wiki.u.c
<heno> we should have a SampleData page to attach those to
<heno> the test cases are now quite short, and then collected in larger suites
<heno> it would be nice to use the new wiki for beta testing
<ara> heno: I am trying to explain better each test case
<heno> ok. davmor2 is also working on this (but seems to have logged off ATM)
<sbeattie> heno: I've been going through some of the verification-done bugs and pulling out samples where I could. I have some of them in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sbeattie/+junk/qa-testcases/files
<sbeattie> ... and was trying to figure out how to add them to the wiki, structurally.
<cjwatson> sbeattie: I've opened bug 258432 and will look at it later, thanks
<heno> sbeattie: please just start new pages for the applications
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258432 in casper "Intrepid 4 live cd drops to busybox, needs more time to  find CD livefs" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258432
<sbeattie> cjwatson: thanks
<heno> we can rename pages later if need be
<heno> sbeattie: add attachments to app test pages or in a SampleData page as appropriate
<heno> let's wrap up
<heno> anything else?
<intellectronica> one thing
<mathiaz> heno: I'd like to know how you're gonna handle beta testing of isos ?
<intellectronica> please don't forget to add agenda items and your names to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/LaunchpadBugsUbuntuQAMeeting if you wish to participate
<mathiaz> heno: are you planning to do smoke testing ?
<mathiaz> heno: ie generate a first set of images later this week and test them as much as possible ?
<heno> mathiaz: yes, we'll run manual and automated smoke tests daily running up to beta
<mathiaz> heno: could you quickly re-explain what smoke test is ?
<heno> basic install testing. The manual testing is tracked here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/DailySmoke
<heno> mathiaz: we are working on improving reporting of the automated testing and I'd appreciate your feedback on that
<heno> schwuk: can you set up mathiaz with access to that?
<mathiaz> heno: sure - I'm in touch with cr3 about this (once in a while though)
<schwuk> heno: sure
<mathiaz> heno: I mentionned beta testing during yesterday's server team meeting
<mathiaz> heno: just wanted to make sure I'm still up-to-date with the procedures
<heno> mathiaz: do you or Dustin still have access to kick off tests?
<mathiaz> heno: not that I know
<kirkland> heno: i don't know
<heno> we would be happy for you to still have a hand in that this release (if you have time)
<kirkland> heno: that's going to be difficult for me, i think, i'm picking up some of soren's responsibilities
<heno> ok
<kirkland> heno: i'm happy to help as much as I can
<heno> kirkland, mathiaz: please have a look at the test results and let us know what's missing
<mathiaz> heno: I'll have a look at it.
<heno> right, really wrapping up this time
<heno> thanks all
<heno> !
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:03.
<Slash_Network> hello all
<nizarus> hello Slash_Network
<nizarus> what are you doing here ?
<nizarus> you are not in ubuntu-tn channel :)
<Slash_Network> I tray to talk with other people about ubuntu
<Slash_Network> lol
<nizarus> this channel is reserved for meetings ;)
<Slash_Network> okey
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-25
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Release | 29 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 30 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 30 Sep 19:00: LoCo Council | 01 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 01 Oct 22:00: Platform Team
<zllang> .0.0.0
<leoquant> ?
<zllang> So peaceful
 * ogra gets fresh coffee for the meeting
<davidm> Yep, I need more coffee too.
<davidm> :-)
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> Who is here this morning?
<StevenK> Not me
<davidm> lool, ogra persia ?
<persia>  /me is rebooting devices
 * ogra waves 
 * lool waves
 * ogra wonders whats up with the calendar 
<davidm> OK I don't have the list handy from last week, were there any carry overs from then?
<davidm> StevenK, persia ^^
 * persia pulls up the log
<StevenK> persia: Thank you
 * StevenK is currently trying to do four things at once.
<davidm> StevenK, please double that, you are not working fast enough ;-)
<StevenK> Grr
<persia> I had an action to draft a spec
<ogra> two hands and two feet :) ... there is still the nosetip to do more typing on another kbd
 * StevenK kicks ogra 
<persia> StevenK had an action to get kourou into the archives
<StevenK> You're not my manager, so I can kick you
<StevenK> kourou is in the archive
<StevenK> It's the default launcher
<StevenK> 0.2 even works
<ogra> yay
<persia> cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb
<StevenK> 0.3 is being prepared
<persia> That's it.
<davidm> OK then from the top persia how goes the spec?
<persia> My spec is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/MIDLiveInstaller
<persia> Needs revew & test cases.
<davidm> OK
<persia> Probably Alice needs help with grammar too.
<ogra> persia, thats what UDS is for
<persia> ogra: This is targeted for intrepid.
<ogra> before UDS it should really be drafts only
<ogra> oh
 * persia is just *really* late on actually writing it up
<ogra> ok
 * ogra shuts up
<davidm> OK, persia do you need help with test cases?
<davidm> I'll have a look today.
<lool> davidm: Well cgregan was supposed to work on test cases
<persia> davidm: I'm expecting cgregan to complete that section.
<lool> blueprint looks good
<davidm> cgregan has officially moved teams again
<ogra> lexington ?
<lool> Yup
<davidm> and I'm not expecting him today as he is at the new office sorting things in Asia
<ogra> so we need a new QA person i guess
<davidm> Yes the OEM team
<davidm> I'm sure we can ask him for help until we fill the open position.
<davidm> I am working that with HR
<persia> Maybe we can look to the #ubuntu-testing folk for aid?
<davidm> OK so I'll carry over cgregan's task to next week.
<davidm> persia, Sure can ask.
<StevenK> No fair. How did the OEM poach him
<davidm> StevenK, he was moving to Lex and they were hurting for folks in Lex
<davidm> Anyway moving on
<ogra> thats why he is in asia now :P
<davidm> Yep, helping with their new offices there.
<davidm> Anyway, moving on,
 * ogra was just trying to be ironic
<davidm> :-)
<davidm> [topic] status
<MootBot> New Topic:  status
<davidm> amitk is not here so StevenK status?
<StevenK> I've been working on kourou, trying to get it nailed down
<StevenK> davidm: I think you may have missed the fun. persia, lool and I got sick of mobile-basic-flash, so I reimplemented it.
<davidm> I did miss that
<StevenK> davidm: mobile-basic-flash is 1,800 lines of C, and kourou, the new launcher is 70 lines of Python
<persia> The new version surpasses the old in both features and standards compliance.
<persia> (plus it actually works)
<davidm> How is the load speed?
<persia> Faster than m-b-f
<davidm> Impressive
<StevenK> Since m-b-f pulls in xul and plonks it into RAM
<StevenK> I will be uploading Kourou 0.3 tonight or tomorrow morning
<persia> And this also means no more xul-1.8 which saves *heaps* of security nightmares.
<lool> Yeah, we did lose the ability to theme the home UI by matter of flash or html, but as we didn't use that ability, I really welcome the rewrite, thanks a lot StevenK
<ogra> its gtk
<StevenK> I also fixed hildon-desktop to not fail to build
<ogra> it surely is themeable in a great way
<StevenK> Kourou currently isn't
<StevenK> Wait, did I say that out loud?
<davidm> OK so we can worry about extending it in Intrepid+1 then >:-)
<StevenK> Exactly
<persia> Indeed.
<davidm> OK so we need a spec for that then?
<persia> It meets the standard use cases today.
<StevenK> It launches stuff, and we can bend it to our will so Intrepid looks good
<StevenK> It probably wants a spec for Jaunty
<davidm> OK who is is on the hook for the spec?
<davidm> StevenK, ^^
<persia> For flash, we probably just want to leverage gnash into a new (separate) wrapper, and use that instead of kourou.
<StevenK> No flash!
<StevenK> Noooo
<StevenK> davidm: Later. :-)
<lool> persia: Frankly, the flash/home UI stuff is not pretty
<davidm> That could work, gnash is fast and light.
<persia> StevenK: Not in kourou, but I like the flash home on my smallest device.
<lool> It requires some javascript bridge to tell the flash about sound events to play, or battery status information, and that's because we have no proper *bindings*
<StevenK> Oh, right.
<davidm> And I bet we can get rob to work on it.
<StevenK> A choice of launcher
<StevenK> I can deal with that
<lool> We don't really want to use the model which was used in mbf, and flash doesn't really offer much more -- perhaps if we get GScript?
<persia> Right.  Launcher choice.  Not flash-in-kourou.  That would be bad.
<StevenK> hildon-desktop currently won't deal, but Jaunty
<davidm> StevenK, so I'll give you the action?
<ogra> plain xul and javascript ;)
<StevenK> davidm: I've added the action to my todo
<ogra> (not as close bound to the xul that you need a specific version indeed)
<persia> I think three launchers: kourou, xul/javascript, and gnash
<lool> ogra: It's not trivial to expose system stuff in javascript just know; we can expose gobjects lib now, but what about hal?  Dunno
 * davidm StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability 
<davidm> [action] StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability
<MootBot> ACTION received:  StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability
<StevenK> It's one spec
<davidm> OK, left the option for more if needed
 * ogra wants launch effects 
<davidm> StevenK, that it for your status?
<StevenK> I have news, but persia did most of the work, so he can go, and I'll interject
<davidm> persia, your status?
<persia> Erm.  I didn't do much (and have no idea to what StevenK refers).
<persia> I fiddled with the seeds some, so -mobile ought work on lpia (excepting the kernel issues).
<StevenK> Oh. It was amitk's work you used?
<persia> The lpia alternate CD still doesn't work: it was an X issue today, which I still haven't tracked down.  I think the remainder of the warnings from debian-installer are safe to ignore.
<StevenK> Right, then I will interject:
<StevenK> Accepting linux-lpia-meta
<persia> Oh.  Yeah.  That was all amitk.
<ogra> yay
<ogra> do we have lrm now ?
<persia> And ogra was able to reproduce the failure-to-install grub issue with i386 with -mobile, which has been a rich set of hints towards tracking it down.
<StevenK> I doubt it
<ogra> so i could try a -mobile lpia build
<persia> No lrm yet.  That's planned for "soon".
<davidm> So the kernel meta package is complete?
<ogra> good
<ogra> at least its planned
<StevenK> davidm: No.
<persia> davidm: Yes.  linux-lpia-meta is complete.  linux-lpia needs another push because of some specialness in kernel packaging, but that's looking good.  We also need lrm (especially for lpiacompat), but that's also in the pipeline.
<persia> StevenK: It's not complete?
<lool> Is lrm really planned?  I thought we'd try harder getting ath5k to work
<StevenK> Not quite complete, it needs binary NEW
<StevenK> So, "Almost"
<ogra> how is aufs looking ?
<persia> lool: It's required for lpiacompat, so it's not such an issue to do it for lpia as well.
 * persia doesn't know anything about aufs, and wishes for an amitk to report about this.
<ogra> persia, well, ath5k would be preferred over madwifi, but i doubt we'll get tat in time
<davidm> Can we grab amitk and pull him into this meeting
<persia> ogra: Indeed: it all depends on kernel stuff.  Personally, I'd rather working xserver-xorg-video-psb to madwifi
<ogra> yeah
<davidm> I just pinged him
<ogra> psb seems critical, i had a lot of requests since yesterday
<persia> I now have a psb device, to help test stuff, but no nothing about that code.
<davidm> psb is not going to make the release
<persia> s/no/know/
<lool> I doubt about psb as well
<persia> davidm: Not even 2D?
<ogra> well, some kind of 2D support would be nice at least
<davidm> Intel is lagging will not come out until December
<lool> The kernel bits could make it, but I don't see how we'd deel with libdrm
<ogra> or even vesa working with it
 * persia doesn't really care about 3D
<lool> *deal
<lool> Heya amitk
<ogra> i just see that even vesa fails, that leaves some psb users with a black screen
<persia> Indeed, which is frustrating.
<davidm> Hi amitk the team has questions for you.
<amitk> sure
<ogra> for some vesa seems to do it though
<davidm> First was how is aufs looking ?
<amitk> I finished reviewing it and will looking to pushing it in today - tomorrow at the latest
<ogra> yay
<amitk> ogra: not so fast
<StevenK> \o/
<persia> ?
<ogra> amitk, well, progress is progress :)
<amitk> I will push it in to the ubuntu-kernel and then rebase the lpia kernel on top of it.
<persia> Does that take us to -4?
<amitk> persia: yes
<davidm> amitk, timeframe?
<amitk> tomorrow
<StevenK> So another round of NEW, too
<davidm> StevenK, does that mean changes to the image building or is that solved too?
<persia> And updates/uploads to debian-installer and ubiquity are then required to be able to install.  It needs to be all NEWed by Monday in order to make the beta release (and people will grumble at that).
<ogra> and after beta only critical fixes are allowed ....
<StevenK> davidm: It does.
<ogra> so we need to get everything in this week
<amitk> persia: I _could_ just not bump ABI, since I don't expect there to be any 3rd parties depending on us
<amitk> yet
<StevenK> davidm: After I get linux-lpia-meta done and in the archive, livecd-rootfs gets another upload
<davidm> StevenK, OK
<persia> amitk: Please bump if you're changing.  I'd rather be loosely aligned with the base kernel anyway.
<persia> (it saves explanantions as to why the kernel versions differ for -mid vs. -mobile)
<ogra> well, i'd like to build -mobile for lpia as well
<davidm> How badly are we going to annoy people with this?  I know we have to do it, just want to have an idea how upset this is going to make people?
<persia> StevenK: Doesn't the presence of linux-lpia-meta mean that this will be the last time the image building script needs to be changed?
<persia> ogra: Then -mobile i386 vs. -mobile lpia
<ogra> right
<StevenK> persia: Hopefully.
<ogra> but that makes only sense if ath5k and psb is there really
<ogra> or lrm for lpia
<persia> davidm: Moderately, but not terribly if we can get stuff ready for them to upload Monday.
<amitk> persia: it was never the idea to track base kernel ABI. We separated it out so LPIA could do its own ABI. So *technically* I can still rebase to base kernel and not bump ABI if no 3rd party is watching.
<davidm> persia, OK thanks.
<amitk> ogra: -mobile and -mid? New definitions?
<persia> amitk: I know.  It's just me thinking about user perception: if we're changing the API, and that lets us stay matching, we may as well bump it.
<ogra> amitk, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/History
<ogra> amitk, wait for my status ;)
<persia> amitk: ubuntu-mobile and ubuntu-mid are metapacakges, for the two flavours (4-6" vs. 7-9"")
<amitk> aah
<persia> Anyway, last thing I wanted to say was that I also did some testing of thunar as a replacement for gpe-filemanager.  I personally like it, but would like to hear from others.
<ogra> did you look at pcmanfm as well ?
<persia> Along with thunar-volman installed, it does mounting and unmounting nicely, and lets us drop ivman, which doesn't do it so nicely.
<StevenK> That was the other one!
<StevenK> pcmanfm
<ogra> thunar is realy not much slimmer compared to nautilus
<persia> It's well maintained by the Xubuntu team.
<ogra> but its using a lot of resources
 * persia has never heard of pcmanfm
<StevenK> ivman is really a hack
<ogra> the slimmest i've seen yet that still offers good functionallity is pcmanfm
<ogra> uuuh, ivman
<StevenK> ogra: Hm?
<ogra> horrible
<StevenK> Yes.
<persia> Yeah. We need to not have that.
<StevenK> So the replacement should be a file manager and drop ivman too
<persia> And someone else takes good care of thunar.  We tried nautilus, but it didn't work so well because it depends on so much of GNOME.
<StevenK> And it looks cramped on a Q1
<persia> Which probably looks worse on smaller hardware.
<persia> Assuming I can get -vesa to work at all, I'll be testing thunar at 247DPI tomorrow.
<StevenK> Anyway, we have got side-tracked.
<davidm> persia, is that it for your status?
 * StevenK prods davidm to drive the meeting
<persia> Yep :)
<davidm> lool, your status?
 * davidm jumps from the cattle prod that StevenK was using >;-)
<lool> Status is that I spent most of last week in the events, and have been cathcing up on monday and writing trip report; since then, doing important intrepid and hardy uploads is my goal
<StevenK> Haha
<lool> I've been relatively unproductive cause I'm being dragged in side issues each time I touch something
<davidm> lool, anything I can help with?
<lool> I seem to touch very broken packages this week, and my little fix soon puts me in the situation where I get to keep both pieces of a previously fragile package, blah
<lool> davidm: Not really
<lool> I'm just piling things instead of unpiling them, but I hope it's just temporary
<davidm> Not fun, but I'm sure you'll get it sorted.
<davidm> anything else?
 * lool uses this particular moment to re-raise anything critical on which I didn't get back to you recently
<lool> So if you people think I should have dealt with something by now and haven't please raise it again!
<davidm> Non in my mind currently
<persia> lool: How is the VoIP stuff coming?
<lool> The ekiga testing?  Didn't touch it again, but then they did a 3.0 release now
 * persia is looking at a bluetooth handset, and wonders if it's going to work with -mid
<davidm> OK, then moving on ogra status?
<ogra> ah, not much :)
<ogra> mainly the same as for lool, event slacking ...
<ogra> i finished the evtouch calibration tool last night
<ogra> and well, released the first mobile image ...
<davidm> Oh very good, that should help a lot.
<persia> It works for everyone but me, but looks nice.
<ogra> http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/09/ubuntu-mobile-edition-news-and-first-boot-video/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/09/ubuntu-mobile-edition-news-and-first-boot-video/
<ogra> in case you havent seen it ...
<ogra> i'm drowning in positive response
<davidm> I've been seeing good feedback from the community
<StevenK> Heh
<ogra> they asked me to do a skype interview about it on friday
<ogra> with about 60 ppl attending online
<ogra> and to quote from teh mobile ML "From my perspective this is the true Ubuntu Netbook Edition. You should probably rename the Netbook Remix to something else or consolidate."
<davidm> 8 minute warning
<ogra> lexington: "THIS WASNT MY INTENTION !!"
<ogra> but people seem overwhelmed by it
<lool> It was also mentionned on the gnome-mobile list BTW :)
<ogra> i'm lagging on getting the image build stuff on the build server
<davidm> It has had a very good response from the community
<ogra> StevenK, did more changes than i expected, some of them compicated ... that might take up some extra time to understand on my side
<persia> Yeah, well, it's confusing.  The relation between the remix and Ubuntu has always been oddly understood.  I think http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/151 is the only thing that can be said about it.
<davidm> ogra, anything else?
<Burgundavia> is there a reason not to use netbook-launcher on the larger umpc/mids?
<ogra> beyond that i'm far behind on ltsp which needs some love to not be totally crappy in intrepid, i will have to donate some time to it before beta
<lool> ogra: Didn't know about the umpcportal post, it seems full of incorrectnesses  :-/
<ogra> Burgundavia, its totally broken ?
<davidm> 5 minute warning
 * Keybuk counts 3 ;)
<persia> Burgundavia: You probably want to ask your question in #ubuntu-mobile in about 5 minutes.
<ogra> lool, the comments fix a lot of it
<lool> Cool
<lool> Keybuk: Then fix your clock :)
 * davidm and Keybuk fight it out ;-)
<ogra> i tried to corret stuff myself as well
<Keybuk> lool: quite right, my clock does appear to have drifted
<lool> Keybuk: Did you recently travel near the speed of light?
<davidm> ogra, anything else?
 * persia suggests a call for Any Other Business, and a swift meeting close.
<davidm> Exactly
<ogra> but anyway, it seems we get a lot of positive community feedback, which was exactly what i intended with the intrepid release ... i hope we can get lots and lots of input to make it rock in jaunty
<ogra> thats it from my side
<davidm> ogra, thanks.  Any other business from anyone?
<persia> davidm: status?
<ogra> heh
 * StevenK suspects he knows why Kourou is misbehaving
<davidm> Just attended OSiM and Maemeo summit and networked last week.
<Keybuk> lool: I recently travelled back from West coast US, overnight, and I can never sleep - I've no idea what *month* it is :p
<davidm> Actually worked the booth at OSiM
<StevenK> Keybuk: It's December, and you missed UDS
<persia> Anything special to announce as a result?
<davidm> Spoke to several hundred people about MID and Mobile.
 * StevenK chuckles evilly
<davidm> Lots and lots of interest
<davidm> anyway
<ogra> yeah, the booth was never really empty
<davidm> 1 minute warning
<davidm> Close meeting going once ...............................................
<lool> Keybuk: We're in VendÃ©miaire
<mpt> It's Octember
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:00.
 * tedg is thinking about what we could say to scare the mobile guys away.... "you can just ASSUME that everyone has AT LEAST 1G of swap"
<persia> Three cheers for Octember!
<Keybuk> tedg: don't worry about the dialog, as long as it fits in 1280x1024, we'll be fine
<persia> teg: Well, no, that's likely to attract dissention :)
<MacSlow> Keybuk, :)
 * mvo waves
<Keybuk> Riddell: ping
<pedro_> hello folks
<Keybuk> just waiting for a couple of stragglers
<MacSlow> hey mvo, pedro_, Keybuk ...
<MacSlow>  and seb128
<Riddell> hi
<MacSlow> and Riddell
<pitti> hey
<Keybuk> <pitti> argh, X crash, argh
<MacSlow> mpt, pitti
<pitti> #(*$#$ that's the third time in three days that X suddently went completely black while I was typing
<pitti> it has never ever happened before
<pitti> sorry for being late, bad timing
<tedg> X has not been making me happy on Intrepid.
<tedg> It's gotten a lot better, but it was crashing 3 times a day on me.
<pitti> well, all my processes kept on running, and I could do VT switching
<seb128> it's stable for me on intel
<mpt> hello MacSlow
<Keybuk> ken is on his way
<pitti> but killing gnome-screensaver doesn't help, it just stays black, and I have to reboot (restarting gdm doesn't help either)
<MacSlow> yeah at least that works on my laptop too
<pedro_> it's fine for me also, i'm having some flickering though
<Keybuk> pitti: I've had a recent X crash which was something to do with the kernel, compiz and gnome-screensaver
<Keybuk> but I've not seen it recently, certainly not while at LPC
<MacSlow> pitti, hm... after the last update the blanking-issue didn't happen to me again
<MacSlow> hey kwwii
<kwwii> hi, sorry for being late
<tedg> pitti: Is that Intel, I have that problem on my Mac Mini alot.  Sometimes it goes white.  I seriously dislike the Intel drivers.
<Keybuk> ok, let's get started
<kwwii> my head stuck up an svg
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-09-25
<MacSlow> tedg, on i965/X3100
<Keybuk> there's a few action items from last week
<pitti> tedg: yes, it is (GMA945), but as I said, it never happened to me until Tuesday
<Keybuk>  * mvo to talk to QA about the possibility of a "package-failures" component and triaging it
<mvo> I sent a mail and talked to brian about it
<tedg> MacSlow, pitti, don't know why, but that's happened all through Hardy and on in my Mini.  My wife refers to Linux as "that unstable operating system" because of it.
<mvo> they are afraid that it might be not looked at if it ends up in a special component
<pitti> mvo: I feel the same
<Keybuk> tedg, MacSlow, pitti -> #ubuntu-x (lots to cover today)
<mvo> he suggested better tagging and better client side filtering
<pitti> *nod*
<seb128> "client side filtering"
<mvo> I would like to do that, but I have some -beta milestoned bugs still open so it may not make it beofre
<Keybuk> mvo: ok, action done then :)  do you think it'd be worth discussing at UDS?
<seb128> I bet that comes from people use mail to read bugs
<mvo> Keybuk: yes
<seb128> s/use/using
<mvo> seb128: you don't use the mail interface
<Keybuk> mpt has reported bugs
<Keybuk>  * pitti to discuss gnome-keyring confirmation dialog behaviour in upstream bug
<seb128> and sure they are not ignored right know assigned on wrong components
<pitti> Keybuk: uh, sorry, not happened yet; conf and beta freeze, that; will do until next Thursday
<Keybuk> no problem
<Keybuk>  * mvo to forward his recent gnome-control-center changes upstream (system wide keyboard selection)
<mvo> done
<mvo> but not accepted :/
<Keybuk> great
<Keybuk> not accepted pending discussion?
<pitti> mvo: "rejected" or "not answered"?
<Keybuk> or rejected?
<mvo> not flat out rejecte
<mvo> but not favorable, they don't think that is something needed
<seb128> rejected by one maintainer which seems to be anti set as system default action in standard interface
<mvo> gconf is enough for everybody
<seb128> he had the same comment to the fedora patch to set a system background (use by the new gdm for example)
<Keybuk> interesting
<mvo> its hopefully something that I can convince him, but the rejection is not based on code or design, its purely "we don't need this functionatly"
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> sad to hear, but something we can work with
<pitti> mvo: did he propose an alterative approach?
<seb128> he's not opposed to reconsider if other people disagree though
<Keybuk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:11. The chair is Keybuk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<seb128> but he thinks the "set system default" should not be in middle of standard dialogs
<seb128> rather in a system config tool or something
<Keybuk> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-09-25
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-09-25
<mvo> pitti: yes, integrate it into sabyon (or one of those systems)
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] FOSScamp
<MootBot> New Topic:  FOSScamp
<Keybuk> Everybody is attending UDS, right? ;)
<MacSlow> ja
<mpt> We are? Oh good :-)
<mvo> (sabayon)
<tedg> Si
<Keybuk> mpt: booked your flights yet?
<mpt> I was waiting for confirmation that I was going :-)
<Keybuk> mpt: everybody attends UDS :)
<MacSlow> Keybuk, well I think ... just assume that we go too
<Keybuk> FOSScamp attendance is optional
<seb128> urg, wrong action
<Keybuk> I guess many of you have booked already either way
<seb128> I didn't because I'm not clear about fosscamp again
<Keybuk> if you feel that you'll have value attending FOSScamp, or there are upstreams there you want to talk to, etc.  please attend and tell Claire that you'll be going
 * MacSlow has only booked for GNOME-summit/hackfest
<Keybuk> if you don't feel that there will be value in you being there, just come for UDS
<seb128> well, who is intending from upstream?
<seb128> attending
<Keybuk> seb128: when I've asked, I've been told that'll depend on who's coming
<Keybuk> I've pointed out that if we get our guys to come, half the people we invite don't come anyway
<Keybuk> or if they do, we want them for UDS too, etc.
 * pitti will come to FOSSCamp; at worst, I'll sit down in a corner and work, but Prague's was really good
<Keybuk> so it's up to you to judge the value
<pitti> we could promote consistent usage of unit prefixes *duck*
<seb128> lol
<Keybuk> pitti: actually, that discussion has gone exactly the way I wanted it to so far ;)
<seb128> makes me think I should put some GNOME guys on the sponsoring list
<Keybuk> let's do a yes/no/maybe run through
<Keybuk> me: yes
 * MacSlow wants X and gtk+ folks at FOSScamp
<Keybuk> pitti: yes?
<mpt> yes
 * tedg no
 * pitti yes
<seb128> no
<seb128> (joking)
<seb128> yes
<Riddell> yes, got some people on the invite list
<Keybuk> mvo: ?
 * kwwii maybe
<mvo> maybe
 * mvo needs to look at the list of people first
<Keybuk> MacSlow: have you added any to the sponsorship list?
<MacSlow> maybe (depends on X/gtk+ people showing up)
<Keybuk> mvo: have you added any to the sponsorship list?
<MacSlow> Keybuk, I think I did
<mvo> oh, I think I didn't :/
<Keybuk> MacSlow: the wiki thinks you didn't <g>
<MacSlow> but nobody from that realm is listed http://www.fosscamp.org/HowToAttend
<MacSlow> Keybuk, *sigh*
<pitti> Keybuk: should we invite the module-init-tools maintainer? (modprobe crazyness, Jon Masters)
<Keybuk> seb128: likewise, invite people? :p
<Keybuk> pitti: Jon is ... err ... not really working on it right now :p
<seb128> Keybuk: right, what I wrote before, <seb128> makes me think I should put some GNOME guys on the sponsoring list
<tedg> If there are people I should try and convince to come who will be in Boston, tell me, and I'll buy beer until they agree ;)
<Keybuk> the guy at RH hacking on it is kylem!
<MacSlow> Keybuk, and I cannot find the invite-list for FOSScamp
<Keybuk> MacSlow: https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/UDS/Jaunty/Sponsorships
<pitti> Keybuk: but we are probably able to make him accept the .db patches
<pitti> Keybuk: oh, sure; Kyle then :)
<MacSlow> Keybuk, oh... I'm coming
<pitti> Keybuk: I'm actually quite serious, would be nice to have him especially since our topic in jaunty is "awesome-speed"
<Keybuk> pitti: I agree, and I'm attempting to have the "let's invite lots of RedHat people" discussion elsewhere :p
<Keybuk> since RH are cheaper than Canonical and won't pay for them to attend :p
<Keybuk> MacSlow: you're a yes?
<MacSlow> Keybuk, ups
<pitti> Keybuk: ok, let me know if I should mail him, or you will, or whatever else
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> pitti: I wanted Arjan to come and scare the lexington guys with his demo ;)
<pitti> lol
<Keybuk> [action] mvo to decide on FOSScamp attendance
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mvo to decide on FOSScamp attendance
<Keybuk> [action] kwwii to decide on FOSScamp attendance
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kwwii to decide on FOSScamp attendance
<Keybuk> [action] macslow to add X/GTK+ people to FOSScamp sponsorship list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  macslow to add X/GTK+ people to FOSScamp sponsorship list
<Keybuk> [action] seb128 to add GNOME people to sponsorship list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  seb128 to add GNOME people to sponsorship list
<Keybuk> and to channel claire briefly ... please book your flights early ;)
<Riddell> are we not to use eyas any more?
<Keybuk> Riddell: Amity or Atlas, depending on your country
<Riddell> ok
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Sponsoring Overview update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsoring Overview update
<Keybuk> [LINK] http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<Keybuk> seb128: bug#265055
<Keybuk> seb128: bug #265055
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 265055 in pidgin "Pidgin backport segfault in libc.so" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/265055
<seb128> I'll have a look to this one, it's recent and I've been busy on GNOME 2.24 updates
<Keybuk> no problem
<Keybuk> mvo: bug #243948
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243948 in apt "Documentation for apt-get "purge" is sort of hard to understand" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/243948
<mvo> Keybuk: needs attention
<Keybuk> otherwise nothing else, good work all
<mvo> but I don't want to break translations
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Targeted and Milestoned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Targeted and Milestoned bugs
<seb128> mvo: unsubscribe the sponsor team if that should wait next cycle
<Keybuk> mvo: it's a fair point, if you want to defer it, remove it from the sponsor team and milestone it for later?
 * mvo nods
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> I was going to supply a link to the relevant ubuntu-devel-announce mail here,
<Keybuk> but the archive has eaten it
 * Hobbsee munches quietly
<Keybuk> so, to remind everybody how this is supposed to work:
<Keybuk> bugs are your own, you get to assign them to yourself, pick an importance, and quietly work on them
<MacSlow> seb128, gee ... what's wrong with your machine? :)
<Keybuk> and you get to pick a milestone yourself
<Keybuk> the milestone field is for your own use, to plan your own work
<seb128> that's an xchat-gnome issue, it closed the tab again
<seb128> or I pressed ctrl-W too quickly or something
<Keybuk> so if a bug just has the milestone set, nobody else will look at it
<Keybuk> well, at least, I won't look at it, Martin won't look at it, and slangasek won't look at it
<Keybuk> if a bug should be considered by the release managers, use the "Target to release" option
<Keybuk> thus bugs targeted to Intrepid are those slangasek looks at
<Keybuk> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
<Keybuk> and for those bugs, the Importance determines how critical it is for the release
<Keybuk> and the milestone states which milestone it really should be completed by
<Keybuk> in summary:
<Keybuk>  * use importance and milestone field for your own use on non-targeted bugs
<Keybuk>  * target a bug to the development release to put it on the RM's radar
<Keybuk>  * importance and milestone of targeted bugs specifies how release critical it is
<Keybuk> and I'll update my reminder mail to say "release targeted bugs" not "milestoned bugs" :)
 * Hobbsee wonders if that means that the bugs that get targetted to the stable release automatically become part of the SRU team's radar.
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: the SRU process requires you subscribe that team
<pitti> Hobbsee: ideally they should
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: right.  Yay for inconsistency. :)
<Keybuk> targeting to a release doesn't automatically notify a RM
<Keybuk> you may have to actually poke an RM to have it accepted ;)
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: yes, and i'm sure that's a bug, too.
<Keybuk> I can do it, I think pitti can too, etc.
 * Hobbsee can as well.
<Keybuk> LP process aside, this is how we do things today
<Hobbsee> right, OK, carry on :)
<pitti> Hobbsee: the trouble is that not many people actually *can* create stable target tasks
<Keybuk> on that note, I stuck the list of release-targeted bugs for our team in the agenda
<pitti> Hobbsee: which is why we use subscription and nomination
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Release  bug list
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release  bug list
<Hobbsee> pitti: ah, right.  yes, that's true.
<Keybuk> I have a libtool patch to sort out :-/
<Keybuk> btw, if any of these shouldn't be done for the release, update the bug status, remove milestone, etc.
<Keybuk> pitti: for beta, bug #262228
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262228 in gdm-guest-session "Guest can log in only once, because of password?" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262228
<pitti> yep, on track
<pitti> trouble with beta freeze is that it leads to "priority inversion"
<pitti> we first work on the non-targetted bugs, and during the freeze on the targetted ones
<Keybuk> pitti: bug #256981 - no milestone, important for the release or not?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 256981 in evolution-data-server "evolution crashed with SIGSEGV in camel_message_info_user_tag()" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/256981
<pitti> since the latter will still go through, while the former won't
<Keybuk> err
<Keybuk> that's not the right number
<Keybuk> bug #256891
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 256891 in logrotate "missingok does not work" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/256891
<pitti> Keybuk: not beta critical, but i'd like to sort it out fir final
<Keybuk> final critical or would like?
<pitti> the latter, really
<pitti> apparently we have that bug for several releases already, so it can hardly be too bad
<Keybuk> pitti: bug #199059 - no milestone?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 199059 in pm-utils "[Hardy] Thinkpad X31 (ATI Radeon M6) suspend backlight on" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199059
<pitti> I didn't set it for intrepid/hardy, was someone else; hardly a release blocker
<Keybuk> is that in pm-utils or hal-info or both? :)
<pitti> someone said it needs a pm-utils patch, too
<pitti> hal-info is fixed in intrepid, sru pending for hardy
<pitti> (that causes pm-utils to be marked for hardy/intrepid as well)
<Keybuk> ok, marked as non-rc
<Keybuk> pitti: bug #263097 - no milestone?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263097 in jockey "wl vs. b43 are not properly configured" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263097
<Keybuk> pitti: the theory goes that if we backport something to hardy, we really ought to make sure that ends up in intrepid ;);)
<pitti> Keybuk: it should really have one, we are doing it in hardy
<pitti> Keybuk: well, 'intrepid' isn't that an implicit "8.10 final" milestone?
<Keybuk> ok, please update as you see fit ;)
<Keybuk> pitti: no, there's a specific milestone
<pitti> I know, but isn't that kind of redundant?
<Keybuk> no milestone could mean "SRU later" or "declined"
<pitti> ah, ok
 * pitti milestones
<pitti> [done]
<Keybuk> mvo: bug #273979 - for beta
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273979 in update-manager ""apt-cdrom add" fails on intrepid for the alternate CD" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273979
<mvo> #2739979 - tricky, happens because we dropped the uncompressed Packages files from the CD but keep them in the Release file, that makes apt-cdrom unhappy, I'm investigating a solution, important for beta
<Keybuk> (random: I used to have a "bug xxx" shortcut, it broke a while ago, but google i'm feeling lucky always gives me the right url anyway :p)
<Keybuk> mvo: bug #267382 - for final
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267382 in app-install-data-ubuntu "firefox/ubufox not showing extensions" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267382
<mvo> (tricky because to get a backported fixed apt from the CD apt on hardy must know about the CD ...)
<mvo> Keybuk: came to my attention just today, but should be fix commited
<Keybuk> plz update
<mvo> will do
<Keybuk> mvo: bug #189406 - for beta?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 189406 in update-manager "Update Manager doesn't display package versions anymore" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/189406
<mvo> no, cosmetic
<Keybuk> ok, I'll unmilestone and wishlist it
<mvo> (version is part of the changelog)
<mvo> (but some people are quite attached to this feature)
<Keybuk> mvo: bug #261423 - for beta?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261423 in apt-xapian-index "Intrepid: Xapian fails to find package when using quick search" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261423
<Keybuk> some people are attached to the idea that the dinosaurs only lived 4,000 years ago
<mvo> yes, not ciritical but should be in bzr
<mvo> so its good to expose it for beta
<mvo> (the fix)
<Keybuk> mvo: for beta or final or "would be nice" ?
<mvo> beta
<Keybuk> mvo: bug #19021
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 19021 in synaptic "Should run dpkg --configure -a automatically" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19021
<mvo> "would be nice"
<mvo> update-manager can deal with that now
<mvo> and update-notifier shows "something is wrong, click here to correct"
<Keybuk> ok
<mvo> so its less important nowdays
<Keybuk> mvo: thanks
<Keybuk> tedg: bug #274140 - for beta
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274140 in fast-user-switch-applet "Visability of Suspend and Hibernate doesn't match gnome-session's dialogs" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274140
 * Keybuk is sure that's not how you spell visibility :p
<tedg> tedg: Yes, I'll get that one fixed.
<tedg> It's the next one though...
<Keybuk> tedg & seb128: bug #274146 - also for beta
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274146 in gnome-session "Has not yet replaced the existing log out applet" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274146
<seb128> as said yesterday it's tricky
<seb128> changing user configuration on upgrade is not something we usually do
<Keybuk> sure, but there seemed to be some solutions
<seb128> and not something we can do easily
<Keybuk> we've moved and replaced applets in the past
<seb128> which ones?
<seb128> no we didn't
<Keybuk> GNOME certainly have
<tedg> I think we need to have a UDS session on this, I think we're going to need to be more aggressive on migrating config in the future.
<seb128> at least not on upgrade, we let user tweak their config
<Keybuk> tedg: UDS is somewhat after beta ;)
<seb128> they replaces applets, which means deprecated the old namespace and made it migrate to the new one
<seb128> but that doesn't change the applet location
<tedg> Keybuk: Hey, if I recall earlier you don't know what month it is ;)
<pitti> Keybuk: just to be clear, this doesn't affect new installations, right? it looks just fine in the guest session
<seb128> and is made for things which are in place replacements
<Keybuk> pitti: it was wrong in new installations as well
<Keybuk> at least, it was on yesterday's daily
<tedg> Keybuk: ?  Really?  I'm pretty sure I fixed that last week.
<pitti> Keybuk: did we actually enable cronjobs again? on Tuesday we still had alpha-6 images
<seb128> Keybuk: what was wrong? having the fast user switch in the corner? that has been changed the day of alpha6
<seb128> and I confirmed it works fine using new user profiles there
<Keybuk> pitti: I don't think so, the last daily was 18
<Keybuk> I have a 23 to test later
<tedg> I think it'll be fixed in that one.
<seb128> anyway change on upgrade is a no go for beta imho
<Keybuk> seb128: beta is the last opportunity we have to do it
<Keybuk> it's when many people upgrade
<tedg> We can't do it on upgrade really anyway, we'll have to check for it on login.
<seb128> I'm reluctant to tweak user configuration, there is no easy way to do that
<Keybuk> ok, I understand
<tedg> I believe panel migrates all the settings from the defaults to the user's home for us.
<seb128> we could deprecated the old fast user switching namespace
 * Keybuk will need to escalate that, since it's expected that we'll migrate users on upgrade to the new applet
<seb128> and replace the old session button one by the new fast user switch applet
<seb128> that would somewhat work for standard config
<Keybuk> so I'll need to talk with mdz and maybe sabdfl about not doing it
<seb128> but people who decided to remove their session button and keep an user switching applet would have it deleted on upgrade for example
<Keybuk> seb128: that doesn't sound bad?
<seb128> that's hackish and will break custom config as I said
<tedg> I think that it's bad, but I think that this is partially a policy issue.
<Keybuk> if you upgrade now, it gets ugly
<Keybuk> since that applet is not designed to float in the middle of the panel
<tedg> If we want to keep the "touch no users config" as part of the Ubuntu Policy -- it's impossible.
<Keybuk> where it has been in our previous config
<seb128> I would rather do that:
<mdz_> Keybuk: if you have a consensus in the team and with mpt, the only person who needs convincing is Mark
<tedg> We could change the namespace, and have it auto add itself.
<seb128> hum, no wouldn't work either
<Keybuk> wouldn't end up in the right place?
<tedg> Since by default all of the "places" are actually an ordering, we could add one to them without people noticing alot.  If they've adjusted the config, it's unlikely they've hit "1" or "2" for the pixel location.
<Keybuk> ok, let's push on otherwise we'll be out of time
<seb128> I'm thinking about it but I see no good way
<tedg> I think it's kinda nasty though.
<Keybuk> kwwii: bug #269500 - for beta
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269500 in human-icon-theme ""Log Out" and "Switch User" are misaligned" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269500
<Keybuk> kwwii: bug #269504 - for beta
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269504 in human-icon-theme ""Suspend" icon is black rectangle in "Shut Down" dialog" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269504
<Keybuk> these seem to basically both be "we need icons for this dialog"
<Keybuk> can you get the list from seb128
<kwwii> those are all the same bug, basically, and seb128 and I talked about it
<seb128> Keybuk: we talked about it on #ubuntu-devel before the meeting
<kwwii> the one icon is missing completely, and the other is not available in all sizes
<Keybuk> ok, great
<kwwii> and just to mention it, using view-refresh for the reboot icon is evil
<Keybuk> Riddell: bug #241916 - no milestone?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241916 in kdebase "Kde help index creation fails due to dash incompatability" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241916
<kwwii> but I will fix it by making the two icons...might take a day though
<Riddell> Keybuk: yet to look at it closely
<Keybuk> ok
<seb128> kwwii: vuntz attach an icon the upstream bug, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507101, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=118735
<Riddell> more important is bug 259278
<ubottu> Gnome bug 507101 in general "New UI for logout/shutdown dialogs" [Minor,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259278 in knetworkmanager "knetworkmanager will no longer connect" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259278
<Keybuk> [topic] release status
<MootBot> New Topic:  release status
<Riddell> and bug 273489
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273489 in rosetta "Remaining Intrepid template approvals" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273489
<Keybuk> pitti: anything we didn't cover with the bug list?
<seb128> kwwii: vuntz attached an icon in the upstream bug, rather
<pitti> there's two things which still bother me
<pitti> first, gnome-session session saving/restoring doesn't work at all
<Keybuk> Riddell: those two didn't appear on my list an hour ago ;)
<kwwii> seb128: erm, I think I will go ahead and make my own version :-)
<pitti> that seems like quite a serious regression to me, but apart from rolling back to intrepid's gnome-session there's not much we can do, I suppose? seb128?
<seb128> kwwii: right, I was just pointing it in case
<seb128> pitti: right
<seb128> pitti: upstream will argue that never really worked correctly
<pitti> so, as with gvfs, yet another thing that upstream changed without providing a replacement
<pitti> seb128: with compiz; worked just fine with metacity..
<pitti> well, yeah, no point in whining here
<pitti> my second thing is something we should be able to fix
<pitti> libgphoto camera handling is broken
<pitti> both gvfs and f-spot try to use the device through libgphoto
<pitti> gvfs mounts it first, and thus f-spot just errors out
<pitti> IMHO f-spot should use the fuse mountpoint location
<pitti> ?
<Keybuk> sounds reasonable
<seb128> pitti: well, gvfs is not really similar, gnomevfs was crappy and gvfs is better in several way, but let's not start about that now (btw alex is back to work since this week so bugs will be fixed again)
<pitti> so that f-spot will only ever see "mounts" and treat mass storage and libgphoto cams equally
<seb128> pitti: that would work for me, but are we sure everybody is in the fuse group to do that?
<pitti> seb128: would 'always use fuse' just be a change in the .desktop file?
<pitti> seb128: right, if we do a "check if fuse exists, if not fall back to libgphoto" change, that needs code
<seb128> well, it's using gphoto now
<pitti> seb128: that fuse group bothers me a lot, though
<pitti> we Just Shouldn't Have It
<Keybuk> pitti: you seemed to have touched all these bits last ;)
<seb128> pitti: the easy solution is to disable the gphoto gvfs automounting again otherwise, as we did in hardy
<Keybuk> any other release status bits?
<pitti> yes, I'll take it on my plate, I just wanted to make sure that using the fuse mountpoint is a sane thing to do
<pitti> Keybuk: I have two questions, yes
<Keybuk> ok
<pitti> anyway,  I'll handle those offline, nevermind
<Koon> oops.
<Koon> o/
<Keybuk> pitti: please carry on ;)
<pitti> mvo: what's missing in intrepid-desktop-systemprefs? (it's beta-avail)
<pitti> seb128: what's missing in consolidate-spell-checkers? (it's beta-avail)
<Keybuk> I'm on a call now, but I'll watch
<pitti> other specs are implemented, and two deferred; good job, team!
<seb128> pitti: I think the spell checker one can be switched to implemented
<mvo> pitti: I think that its implemented, but I double check if I missed something
<pitti> seb128, mvo: thanks; can you please review the spec and make sure we've got everything, and if we do, set it to implemented?
<pitti> that would make a nice clean record for the beta freeze :)
<seb128> pitti: will do
<Keybuk> ok, great
 * persia notes that the Java team isn't gathering actively right now, and so won't mind if the desktop meeting runs well over: the Java meeting may happen in #ubuntu-java as we are all present.
<mvo> done
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReportingPage
<pitti> I'm done
<Keybuk> could everyone please update that
<Keybuk> today is due day for the reports
<Keybuk> otherwise AOB?
<pitti> not much to report there in terms of shiny things :/
<pitti> bug fixes are a little too low-level for that
<Keybuk> thanks all
<pitti> beta! beta! beta! beta! developers! developers! developers!
<Keybuk> sorry persia ;)
<persia> Keybuk: Really, no issue (as I said).  I hope that's not always the case, but today is good.
 * mvo waves
<kwwii> bye
<pitti> thanks everyone
<robilad> good afternoon, java lovers
<persia> OK then.  Java Team meeting.
<persia> Who's here?
<robilad> me
<persia> Right.  Koon?  slytherin?  doko?
<Koon> o/
<Koon> was lost in channel changes
<persia> No problem.  Sorry for confusion.
<persia> OK.  Seems were half here, so let's get started.
<persia> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<persia> Nothing special this week, so we'll just hit status points from the roadmap.
<persia> robilad: You're up first.  How is your integration analysis work going?
<robilad> very slowly
<robilad> i was on vacation for two weeks, so not much happened
<robilad> i am right now looking into what it would take to get hudson packaged
<robilad> using maven
<robilad> as it's a much smaller example
<robilad> to test Koon's ideas on
<persia> smaller is probably better as a start :)
<persia> OK.  Let's jump there then: Koon: how is maven?
<robilad> since it's a server app, it also requires the tomcat/gf/* mess
<robilad> but yeah
<Koon> can't be smaller than my helloWorld project :)
<robilad> you win ;)
<Koon> on maven I finalized the bootstrap analysis
<Koon> it's a lot less work than I first imagined
<Koon> basically we are missing 15 packages to be able to package a helloWorld using Maven
<Koon> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/MavenKissBootstrap
<Koon> all these packages can be packages using ant
 * slytherin forgot about meeting again. :-(
<Koon> s/can be packages/more than probably can be packages/
 * Koon finds the 'd' key again
<persia> Excellent, so we don't have to bootstrap, but can build on a proper foundation?
<Koon> no weird bootstrap thing as I originally feared
<robilad> nice!
<Koon> those are just JARs, they don't even have a maven build process per se in their sources
<Koon> I packaged maven-shared-io as a test
<persia> Wonderful.  Would you mind opening needs-packaging bugs for those, and subscribing the team?  We can put out a general announcement during Open Week, and probably get them all in REVU within November.
<Koon> sure, will do. I'll also update the MavenSupportSpec doc so that the KISS method is the design chosen and implementation follows those needs-packaging bugs
<persia> Excellent.  Do we need a UDS session for this, or are we likely to do just fine without?
<Koon> I won't be at UDS so I'd say we could try to do fine without
<persia> That's sufficient reason :)
<Koon> unless we invite debian-java guys to discuss more collaboration
<persia> slytherin: Have you heard anything about maven from debian-java?
<slytherin> persia: No.
<Koon> so far my efforts to push Java fixes to debian-java have not been responded
<robilad> anything I can do?
<persia> slytherin: You joined debian-java, right?  Any guidance for Koon?
<slytherin> Koon: maven is packaged in pkg-java svn. Why not simply join the project and do the changes yourself. When you request for uploader the changes will get reviewed
<Koon> slytherin: I don't need any change to maven. That's the beauty of the KISS approach ;)
<Koon> I was more concerned about new library packages
<Koon> like the list of 15 required in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/MavenKissBootstrap
<Koon> as for other changes (tomcat 5.5 for example) my fixes sometime undo what another guy did, and I don't feel comfortable fixing it without first discussing it
<slytherin> Koon: Let's do it this way, announce on debian-java mailing list that you are going to package those library packages (to make maven work) in pkg-java svn and any feedback will be appreciated.
<Koon> hm. I'm not going to package them (all)
<Koon> I'm going to show which packages we should do :)
<robilad> M
<persia> Koon: Perhaps you'd be willing to be a review point?
<Koon> sure
<robilad> ichael Koch and Arnaud Vandyk would be good people to ask about the tomcat changes, in case markus better is not around atm.
<persia> We could call for arbitrary packagers during Open Week, and then feed the results into pkg-java svn.
<persia> (once they were clean enough).
<persia> That way the Debian folk have someone with whom they can communicate, who is responsive and responsible, yet we can leverage the Ubuntu "I want to do something" spirit, and get some work done.
<Koon> persia: about maven-specific jars, I think we should not put them in /usr/share/java but in some maven-specific directory. As they are just used by maven and there are a lot of them
<persia> Koon: Works for me, but that's something you do want to discuss with doko and man-di, to avoid policy confusion.
<Koon> when the spec document is complete the best would be to get it approved by doko or someone else from Foundations
<Koon> i'll majke sure it's completes by next week
<Koon> complete-d
<persia> That sounds like a good plan.
<persia> And we'll definitely want to get it into pkg-java SVN for better review and shared maintenance, if we can.
<slytherin> Koon: what you could do is put jars in maven directory and add symlinks in /usr/share/java
<Koon> slytherin: for exmaple, I don't see the point of having maven-compiler-plugin.jar in /usr/share/java, link or otherwise
<Koon> anyway, that's just an implementation detail
<persia> Right.  Let's get the spec written, and discuss implementation when we have something to reference.
<persia> Koon: Anything else?
<robilad> +1
<Koon> nothing else on the maven front
<persia> slytherin: How is MoveToUniverse?  I see 5 bugs on the wiki page still open: are they all still valid?
<slytherin> persia: The one for javassist is still valid. And I think the reverse-build-depends of libjavassist-java are already moved to universe though they should not have been.
<persia> Oops.  That might have been my fault :(
<persia> So dbus-java, libjgroups-java, libproxool-java, and libxstream-java are not considered intrepid targets at this point?
<slytherin> persia: libxstream is as it is reverse-build-depends of libaspectwerkz2-java IIRC
<persia> Urf.  Then libxstream is needed for intrepid.  Anything else?
<slytherin> persia: libjgroups-java has had a sync to a version which is Free now (GPLv2) so that is also a candidate.
<slytherin> I had requested FFE for libproxool-java but now I am not going to work on it probably.
<persia> slytherin: OK.  Some of these don't seem to be subscribed to ubuntu-archive.  Could you review them again?
<persia> OK.  If you're not going to do libproxool-java, it might be good to set it "wontfix" for intrepid, and come back to it later.
<slytherin> will do all that tonight.
<slytherin> techno_freak: What is a python coder doing in java meeting. :-P
<robilad> there is also some nice news on the jogl front
<persia> What's that?
<persia> slytherin: Great.  Thanks.
<robilad> the SGI license change allows jogl to be free, too
<persia> Nifty, but probably jaunty at this point.
<robilad> new packages have been prepared for debian, etc.
<persia> Excellent.
<slytherin> robilad: right but that will need a FFE probably. I am not going to work on it but if you want to work on it please go ahead. Then worldwind can also be moved to universe.
<persia> I don't think we want to do that now.  Today is the first day of beta freeze.  We oughtn't have new FFes unless we *really* need them.
<robilad> yeah, i'm not sure when the packages will hit debian, really.
<robilad> between prepared & the new queue processing ...
<robilad> so I'm with persia
<persia> OK.  That's three of us who aren't going to work on jogl for intrepid.  I'm willing to call that quorum.
<persia> Anything else for this week?
<Koon> to get more people in the team and into meetings, we should probably advertise the meeting date and resulting meeting minutes in ubuntu-devel
<persia> Koon: Hmm.  I agree about the minutes.  I'm not sure about advertising the date, although adding a note in the minutes about the date/time of the next meeting is probably a good idea
<Koon> sure.
<persia> (and the scheduler in here needs fixing: it's been regressing lately)
<persia> robilad: You've been the secretary so far, would you mind sending minutes also to ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com?
<robilad> sure, glad to
<persia> robilad: Thank you.
<slytherin> Would we like the developers from Sun who have worked on glassfish and netbeans to be part of the team?
 * persia would like anyone interested in Java packaging for Ubuntu to be part of the team
<robilad> ack
<persia> OK.  Anything else?
<robilad> i think we're through
<slytherin> Nothing from my side
<persia> Right.  Next meeting 2nd October.  Have a good week.
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-26
<hokmen> yeah, finally i arrive here. - hokmen chan
<hokmen> i think the firefox(about:config section) can be completed as you wish to. since the hash functions upgraded
<hokmen> we all know when the spams easier to be stopped since the sep15 openssl and gnu version upgrade.
<hokmen> networking from argo
<hokmen> bye
<hokmen> 886
<Ziroday> @schedule singapore
<ubottu> Schedule for Asia/Singapore: 26 Sep 23:00: Ubuntu Release | 29 Sep 12:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 30 Sep 23:00: Server Team | 01 Oct 03:00: LoCo Council | 02 Oct 01:00: QA Team | 02 Oct 06:00: Platform Team
<freeflying> @schedule shanghai
<ubottu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 26 Sep 23:00: Ubuntu Release | 29 Sep 12:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 30 Sep 23:00: Server Team | 01 Oct 03:00: LoCo Council | 02 Oct 01:00: QA Team | 02 Oct 06:00: Platform Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Release Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 30 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 30 Sep 19:00: LoCo Council | 01 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 01 Oct 22:00: Platform Team
<pitti> hi
<bdmurray> pitti: hi
 * Hobbsee drive-by waves
<sbeattie> hey
<slangasek> morning
<dendrobates> hiho.
<cjwatson> hi
<kwwii> hi
<lool> Heya
<pitti> argh, my keyboard just went crazy; I need to reboot, back in 3
<slangasek> mdz, davidm, Riddell: ping?
<Riddell> hi
<slangasek> hiya
<davidm> sladen, I'm here and lool is the mobile expert :-)
<slangasek> Henrik is on holiday, it appears
<davidm> slangasek, that is
<ogra> davidm, sladen will be pleased to hear that *g*
<davidm> got to watch the tab completions.
<ogra> yeah, i'm catching that special one as well all the time
 * ogra wants that vor<tab> extends to slangasek :P
<slangasek> I imagine there are scripts for that :)
<ogra> heh
<slangasek> ok, quorum; let's get started
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> slangasek, There is already a meeting in progress.
<slangasek> um what
<Hobbsee> #endmeeting
<Hobbsee> #end meeting
<Hobbsee> hmm
<slangasek> sigh
<slangasek> ok, moving on without the bot
<cjwatson> Keybuk: the last #startmeeting was yours; please end it
<slangasek> sbeattie: as heno is not here, would you like to give us a brief run-down on QA's status? (if you're comfortable doing so)
<sbeattie> Sure
<Keybuk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:08.
<Keybuk> :)
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<ogra> was that running since yesterday ?
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:08. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<slangasek> ogra: yes :)
<sbeattie> Some bugs we'd like to see some movement on:
<ogra> heh, long log then :)
<sbeattie> * bug 258743 NM 0.7 Fails To Set Custom MTU/static IP configs not persistent
<sbeattie> * bug 273833 v86d missing from initramfs
<sbeattie> * bug 258432 Intrepid live cd drops to busybox, needs more time to find CD livefs
<sbeattie> * bug 271550 ia32-libs missing libQtDbus/breaks skype (universe package)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258743 in network-manager "NM 0.7 Fails To Set Custom MTU" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258743
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273833 in v86d "v86d missing from initramfs" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273833
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258432 in casper "Intrepid 4 live cd drops to busybox, needs more time to  find CD livefs" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258432
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271550 in ia32-libs "ia32-libs missing libQtDBus, others?" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271550
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2008-09-26
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2008-09-26
<slangasek> (link to the agenda)
<sbeattie> slangasek: last successful Live CD build was 20080923
<slangasek> well, I believe there was a successful Live CD build today
<pitti> re (sorry, hardware sucks)
<slangasek> just grossly oversized and requiring investigation :)
<sbeattie> slangasek: ah, just built within last 4 hours
<slangasek> [LINK https://launchpad.net/bugs/258743
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258743 in network-manager "NM 0.7 Fails To Set Custom MTU" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<slangasek> meh
<slangasek> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258743
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/258743
<slangasek> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273833
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/273833
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273833 in v86d "v86d missing from initramfs" [High,Triaged]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258432
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/258432
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258432 in casper "Intrepid 4 live cd drops to busybox, needs more time to  find CD livefs" [High,Confirmed]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271550
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/271550
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271550 in ia32-libs "ia32-libs missing libQtDBus, others?" [Critical,Confirmed]
<sbeattie> we're making progress on the automated cert testing, 18 machines successfully installed the alpha 6 alt cd this week
<cjwatson> 258432 is open in my browser but I haven't had a chance to prod it yet :-/
<slangasek> none of the above bugs showed up on my milestone list earlier; do you think they should all be blockers for beta?  (I'm skeptical of this myself)
<pitti> sbeattie: with alternate and preseeding, or the desktop and some automatic clicking?
<cjwatson> I think 273833 needs a decision from the kernel team on what to do?
<cjwatson> since last I heard was that it was OK for v86d to be missing
<pitti> is v86d really missing? rtg told me it really shouldn't be isntalled at all?
<cjwatson> right, that's what I heard
<cjwatson> the syslog noise is annoying though
<pgraner> slangasek: Sorry I'm late, call ran over
<sbeattie> Mmm, I hit v86d missing on an attempt to use the livecd from 20080923.
<cjwatson> right, you're seeing the log messages, but they aren't fatal
<slangasek> pgraner: understood :)
<cjwatson> any fatal problem is something else ...
<pgraner> BenC: can you comment on LP #273833?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273833 in v86d "v86d missing from initramfs" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273833
<sbeattie> cjwatson: I think bug 246269 is the fatal issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246269 in linux-meta "Switched from vesafb to uvesafb, but uvesafb can't work without v86d" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246269
<cjwatson> anyway, we should discuss the specifics on #-devel
<lool> :win 10
<lool> Ups
<bdmurray> right, I wasn't sure how the two were related
<slangasek> [ACTION] follow-up discussion about bug 273833 on #ubuntu-devel
<MootBot> ACTION received:  follow-up discussion about bug 273833 on #ubuntu-devel
<BenC> pgraner: Um...if it's not in initramfs it's because it isn't installed
<sbeattie> pitti: alternate with preseeding
<slangasek> sbeattie: 258743 is marked regression-potential, but it's rather opaque who has set this tag and on what basis... this is known to have worked before?
<sbeattie> slangasek: hmm, probably not. we've had some exuberant regression tagging, sorry for the noise on that..
<slangasek> sbeattie: well, if it's not a regression, I think the priority goes way down on that one; what do you think?
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up with \sh on bug #271550, to find out where libqt went
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up with \sh on bug #271550, to find out where libqt went
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271550 in ia32-libs "ia32-libs missing libQtDBus, others?" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271550
<cjwatson> [we're running over ...]
<sbeattie> slangasek: I agree
<sbeattie> We held a test day with good turnout, we'll hold another on Oct 6
<sbeattie> I think that's we have, bdmurray?
<sbeattie> err, that's all
<bdmurray> sbeattie: that's it
<slangasek> ok, thanks guys
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<slangasek> pitti: hi
<pitti> Status of desktop specifications:
<pitti> all implemented (2 are deferred due to needing upstream work), so there will not be any changes any more on that front
<pitti> any questions on the spec front? if not, I'll go on
<cjwatson> keep going, we can ask questions at the end if need be
<pitti> Bugs from Steve's list:
<pitti>  * #259278 (knetworkmanager doesn't work with NM 0.7): Jonathan uploaded fix to network-manager PPA, will be tested over weekend and land on Monday if all goes well
<cjwatson> (or in the middle or whatever ...)
<pitti>  * #269500 (misaligned options in Log Out dialog), #269504 (wrong 'suspend' icon in shutdown dialog): Ken just created new icons and sent the update to Seb, who will sponsor it today
<pitti>  * #274140 (fast-user-switch-applet shows wrong suspend/hibernate options): it currently seems to guesstimate, instead it should ask g-power-mgr over dbus what options are available; bug is well understood, and Ted is on it; ETA today
<pitti>  * #274146 (too many logout applets on upgrade): IMHO there is *no* correct way to get this right on upgrades; users will need to remove the one they don't like manually, and we can release-note the issue; discussion started in the bug, but I don't expect this to be fixed by beta, or even final.
<pitti>  * #262228 (guest user can lock themselves out): I have the fix halfway ready, ETA today or at most Monday
<pitti>  * #274303 (warning users on upgrade that non-free X drivers aren't compatible): Michael is currently doing fi
<pitti> nal testing on the fix, ETA today
<pitti>  * #260242 ("report a bug" doesn't work): Fixed with this morning's apport upload
<pitti> Other bugs we lifted to beta critical:
<pitti>  * #258083 (photo import broken for libgphoto digicams): I fixed the underpinnings in fuse yesterday, now we need to teach f-spot --import to accept a ~/.gvfs/<fuse mount> path; shouldn't be too hard, Seb or I will nail it down Monday, at most Tuesday
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to open release-notes task for bug #274146
<pitti> so in summary I think the bug front is under control, albeit last-minute work as always
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to open release-notes task for bug #274146
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274146 in gnome-session "Has not yet replaced the existing log out applet" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274146
<pitti> Future issues which might impact the release:
<pitti>  * #274085 (update Ekiga to 3.00): the "Abiword 2.6 plz" bug of intrepid, came up a few days ago; currently leaning towards "no", but if somebody picks it up and will care about providing packages with a working upgrade path and will care about regression reports, I'd be willing to bless it
<pitti> ^ for that, since there seems to be a PPA of the package, maybe that guy will pick it up (haven't checked yet whether he's upstream)
<slangasek> yes, great to see this aggressive set of bugs milestoned for beta - better for beta than final :)
<pitti> right
<slangasek> the ekiga ppa is from an upstream, yes
<slangasek> we can talk about ekiga out-of-band, I think
<Riddell> bug 273489 is important, will there be a language-pack upload before beta?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273489 in rosetta "Remaining Intrepid template approvals" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273489
<pitti> given our current workload, we won't have time to bring that in for beta, though
<lool> Yeah, please note that the packaging differs significantly and the package name are a pain
<lool> (for ekiga)
<pitti> Riddell: there are constant automatic langpakc uploads, at least they are supposed to happen twice a week
<Riddell> that doesn't necessarily answer my question :)
<pitti> slangasek: but good point, we should get a fresh -base upload to minimize their size; I'll talk to Arne
<pitti> Riddell: ^
<slangasek> [ACTION] pitti to discuss a fresh langpack -base upload with Arne, related to bug #273489
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to discuss a fresh langpack -base upload with Arne, related to bug #273489
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273489 in rosetta "Remaining Intrepid template approvals" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273489
<pitti> Riddell: well, if it's not fixed in intrepid, then there's a bug in langpack-o-matic's cronjobs or rosetta itself; can we discuss this in #devel? I wasn't aware of that so far
<slangasek> anything else before we shuffle along?
<pgraner> Web cam support broke
<pitti> not from my side
<pitti> pgraner: ah, because we are using hte upstream driver now which threw out all the color codec stuff? is it that?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> lool: hi
<lool> pgraner: quickcam?
<lool> pgraner: got that too
<pgraner> pitti: yep https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/267522
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267522 in linux "webcams stop working with 2.6.27" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<lool> Heavy copy-pasting planned
<lool> Stuff we will likely drop for intrepid:
<lool> * poulsbo drivers; Intel said they'd provide a code drop for intrepid in ... January; unlikely to be suitable for intrepid-updates as well; need to drop psb from xserver-xorg-video-all for now as it gets used automatically and we don't want that, but we want to keep the package as a placeholder just in  case we get a doable update; bug #274833
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274833 in xorg "Please disclude xserver-xorg-video-psb from xserver-xorg-video-all" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274833
<mdz> (slangasek: here now)
<lool> Stuff which landed: installer
<slangasek> mdz: 'morning :)
<lool> Stuff we're targetting at intrepid:
<lool> * DC-built images (cdimage) dailies based on mobile/i386 seed (only mid/lpia seed so far); bug #274838
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274838 in mobile-meta "ubuntu-mobile images need to be built on cdimage.ubuntu.com machines" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274838
<lool> * kernel union fs: aufs needs an update (main kernel is affected as well), we're still using unionfs as a workaround right now; amitk on it, almost done; bug #264048
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 264048 in linux-lpia "aufs hangs on rename() in MID live images" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264048
<lool> * no wifi for Q1U on lpia; ath5k doesn't work with the chip and no lrm for lpia; amitk working on providing lrm for lpia; bug #274832
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274832 in mobile-meta "no linux-restricted-modules for lpia flavour" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274832
<lool> * mid images fail to install due to misc ubiquity/kernel/grub/lpia interactions; bug #182004, bug #274752, bug #274753, bug #274781, bug #274785 track these issues; lots of small things discovered only as soon as we had kernel meta in place (happened this week)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 182004 in ubiquity "partitioner fails if partially preseeded due to seen flag madness" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182004
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274752 in mobile-meta "No kernel installed for ubuntu-mid flavour" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274752
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274753 in mobile-meta "No kernel installed with ubuntu-mobile" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274753
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274781 in grub-installer "Please add support for the lpia architecture" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274781
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274785 in ubiquity "Ubiquity should select grub as the boot loader for lpia" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274785
<lool> So that last list is scary, it's many small things
<lool> Questions?
<cjwatson> there's a problem with getting the mobile seeds honoured by germinate on drescher (which may feed into something above, not sure)
<slangasek> you said "targetting at intrepid"; are all of these beta things, and which ones are critical?
<cjwatson> we got the initial trivial patch sorted out, but the task names are all wrong
<cjwatson> lool: are you planning to use the tasks for beta?
<lool> cjwatson: I know we discussed task headers yesterday
<lool> cjwatson: In the seeds data?  I think so
<cjwatson> bugger, I'd better get that sorted out quickly then
<lool> cjwatson: One issue was that mid was using task-seeds: desktop-common incorrectly, that I dropped
<cjwatson> at the moment the task names will come out as mobile-mobile and mobile-mid
<cjwatson> is that OK for you, or would you want them to be just mobile and mid (bearing in mind that that's a tedious code change)?
<lool> Ok
<cjwatson> if you can tolerate those task names, we can leave them like that
<lool> cjwatson: I think the descriptions are clear enough that I wouldn't bug you for the cosmetic of the short name; would be nice to fix them on the long term naturally
<cjwatson> persia sent me patches for 274781 and 274785 today, which should be straightforward to integrate (though I haven't looked at them yet)
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> that's a relief
<cjwatson> will still need a tasksel update probably
<lool> Ok; I have little clue about that; I'd rather have persia and you sort tasksel out at this point
<cjwatson> it's trivial
<lool> Ok; want a bug?
<cjwatson> no need
<lool> Topic closed then, thanks for raising tasks short names
<lool> Any other Q on the above release updates for mobile?
<slangasek> you said "targetting at intrepid"; are all of these beta things, and which ones are critical?
<hokmen> dear ubuntu friends
<hokmen> I think double AI for data packages at both sides will do bad things.
<hokmen> a exampleï¼
<cjwatson> hokmen: please use a different channel; we're holding a meeting.
<hokmen> afo send me two links which point to his qq mail box (that is afunction for file downloading in tencent qq mail box)
<lool> slangasek: The beta critical issue is the last one; the other stuff we would like to have in beta or the soonest basically
<hokmen> and then i can not download it if it come with the hash() verify code in url.
<lool> slangasek: We could live with any of the other points staying open, but it would be ugly
<hokmen> ok
<slangasek> lool: and related to that, do people on your team have the necessary bits to escalate these bugs?  e.g., bug #264048 is 'undecided' importance, which puts it a the bottom of the milestoned bug list
<hokmen> i think this is a kind of double AI(or say g.f.w) for data packages at both sides. we need to cooperation, not do it by your own selves. sorry for interrapt
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 264048 in linux-lpia "aufs hangs on rename() in MID live images" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264048
<cjwatson> could somebody please +q hokmen
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up on mobile bug list and ensure appropriate milestones are set
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up on mobile bug list and ensure appropriate milestones are set
<lool> slangasek: TBH, we didn't make enough use of bugs severities and milestones, or bugs in general, and are trying to improve; this particular bug is at the top of amitk's list though
<lool> slangasek: I did milestone this bug today though
<slangasek> lool: right; the place where milestones/severities help are for letting the rest of team know what to expect in the upload
<lool> (I hope it's still ok to milestone in beta to try to fix before beta and remilestone for final if we didn't)
<slangasek> ... upload queue :)
<slangasek> ok, let's push ahead
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<lool> slangasek: As the bug number show, we did file a bunch of these very recently, which would also explain they didn't show up in your lists
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<BenC> Hey
<slangasek> hiya
<pgraner> BenC has been driving the kernel the last few weeks...
<pgraner> BenC: status?
<BenC> So, I was out for a week, and have been catching up for the past week or so...I can only comment on what has been very visible
<hokmen> will you pass that message to all BSD teams?
<cjwatson> hokmen: please go elsewhere
<BenC> As of right now I am concentrating on acpi hotkeys, crashdump and as of today, last-good-boot
<BenC> the first two items Are generally fixed, and need some uploads
<pitti> BenC: any chance of making l-g-b a bit more efficient?
<slangasek> BenC: there's a hitlist of bugs in the agenda, in case you haven't seen; bug #263555, bug #253904, and bug #260675
<BenC> The final item, last-good-boot, I've only recently heard of some issues
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263555 in linux "[intrepid] 2.6.27 e1000e driver places Intel ICH8 and ICH9 gigE chipsets at risk" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263555
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 253904 in linux-meta "does not build a lot of metapackages any more" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/253904
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260675 in wacom-tools "[intrepid] Wacom Xorg module is incompatible with the kernel module shipped in kernel packages." [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260675
<BenC> e1000e is being removed
<rtg> I've been working on bug #263555
<BenC> linux-meta doesn't need to build a lot of meta packages
<hokmen> things is going good
<pitti> but we still need all of them for upgrades, at least until 10.04 (next LTS)
<BenC> linux-ports-meta will be filling the void on that one, and smb is preparing an upload
<dendrobates> pgraner:  BenC: 2.6.27 is currently crashing in EC2.  We have a fix that zul is testing today.
<BenC> pitti: ^^
<pitti> Hobbsee: are you channel admin? can you please ban hokmen?
<pitti> BenC: ah, thanks
<pgraner> dendrobates: bug number?
<cjwatson> pitti: (he left)
<pitti> BenC: which one will build the ones for the dropped flavours?
<BenC> pitti: linux-ports-meta
<dendrobates> we don't have one yet, but will in a few minutes.
<pitti> BenC: nice to see that resolved, thanks
<pgraner> dendrobates: great
<BenC> pitti: if there are other flavours we need to fill the void for, we'll get those too
<BenC> pitti: things like -xen, -rt and -openvz don't have an upgrade path
<BenC> pitti: but we never guaranteed one
<slangasek> rtg: what are the prospects of having a better fix for 263555 for beta than 'remove the driver'?  That option leaves a lot of laptop users without ethernet, I think
<rtg> Investigation into the e1000e flash corruption is still ongoing by the kernel dev community. Its a very high profile issue on LKML right now.
<rtg> I believe it has existed since at least Gutsy. I remember a patch that allowed e1000 to load despite checksum failures.
<rtg> In the meantime I've disabled it in the Intrepid kernel. No resolution in sight.
<BenC> slangasek: e1000 picks up those PCI id's
<pitti> BenC: so those folks will just stay with the hardy kernel then?
<BenC> pitti: right
<rtg> BenC: I'm coming to the conclusion that it might not be a driver issue.
<slangasek> there are -rt kernel packages in intrepid, as well as a linux-meta-rt, so I think that one's resolved anyway
<sbeattie> rtg: bug 60388 is the e1000 invalid checksum bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 60388 in linux "e1000  EEPROM Checksum validity check should be disabled" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60388
<rtg> sbeattie: thats the one. I did it for Jane and Mark
<slangasek> BenC: ah, so is that change in place already to have e1000 take over these PCI IDs?
<slangasek> if so, we can probably un-milestone the bug?
<rtg> slangasek, BenC: its not the solution
<BenC> slangasek: I'll let rtg comment on this since he's been tracking the whole situation...
<rtg> Reverting to the e1000 driver isn't going to fix the root cause. No bosy is really sure what it is yet.
<slangasek> ok
<rtg> Hopefully we'll find it soon.
<rtg> Intel is putting a lot of resource into it.
<rtg> thats all from me.
<slangasek> ok, then I think that bug is where it needs to be right now
<slangasek> thanks, guys
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<sbeattie> slangasek: one other thing, QA talked internally about escalating issues like e1000e earlier to release team/manager; we think this specific issue got overshadowed by 2.6.26->2.6.27
<cjwatson> Milestoned bugs:
<cjwatson> 256054: taken to ubuntu-devel for discussion; ifupdown plugin available for testing; alternatives are to write a simple plugin to make all interfaces unmanaged, or to have an "nm-managed" option in interfaces t
<cjwatson> hat ifupdown is taught to understand
<cjwatson> 226139: sorry, don't have status on this, though I see that there's a patch available upstream
<cjwatson> 182004: I'm working hard on this, hope to be finished today
<cjwatson> Targeted bugs:
<cjwatson> 247376: still blocked on upstream, but 274303 will at least give us a workaround for upgrades (see pitti's update)
<cjwatson> 185311: no progress since last time, not optimistic
<cjwatson> 267884: no progress since last time, but should be tractable
<cjwatson> 272772: big transition bug including OOo, have pointed it out to calc
<cjwatson> 180309: don't have status on this
<cjwatson> 261543: I've got feedback from Scott, in progress
<cjwatson> 272318: recurrence of previous issue, no progress yet though
<cjwatson> 273271: new UI bug, should be easy, may squeeze this in for beta
<cjwatson> 267682: some progress, not entirely fixed yet though (FDI addition broke detect-screens; HAL issue? needs yet more analysis)
<cjwatson> 270423: not sure what's happening here, but post-beta
<cjwatson> Misc issues/features:
<cjwatson> OOo 3.0 due in PPA today, perhaps universe for intrepid but not main
<cjwatson> OpenJDK compiler currently targeting 1.6 by default which breaks older VMs (e.g. Blackdown); doko is gathering information on what targeting 1.4 instead would lose us
<cjwatson> bryce has been working on merging updated acpi-support quirks from Debian and will be continuing with this, with a view to knowing more about the work required to bin it for jaunty
<cjwatson> expecting a new code drop for BBC content in totem, now that the production server is available and some new video formats need to be enabled; would like to upload this pre-beta if possible, if it's in time
<cjwatson> not quite finished enabling mobile seed germination in LP; still needs another code change there :-(
<cjwatson> actually, you can ignore that last line, I prepared this before the mobile update
<slangasek> sbeattie: yes, I agree that should've been escalated much earlier
<cjwatson> no questions, or is everyone still digesting? :)
<pitti> cjwatson: 267672> I vaguely understood it as that -evdev now grabs the keys and sends them as events to X
<pitti> as opposed to acpi-support/hal grabbing the keys and running their usual scripts
<mdz> cjwatson: digesting
<pitti> but ICBW, I have no firm idea how this actually works
<mdz> cjwatson: I haven't looked at it in detail, but "experimental plugin" as a solution for 256054 makes me vaguely nervous
<slangasek> cjwatson: been digesting :)
<cjwatson> pitti: the more recent updates to that bug indicate that a hal fdi script helped many of the problems (although regressed one), so something is clearly going through hal
<cjwatson> mdz: personally, I'm somewhat open to the "leave it alone" solution as well
<mdz> cjwatson: isn't it a regression from 8.04?
<pitti> cjwatson: I think it's *supposed* to go trough hal, and with the new -evdev it wasn't any more
<mdz> pitti: I don't fully understand what's going on in bug 267682
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267682 in linux "Hotkeys no longer working in Intrepid on Thinkpads" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267682
<pitti> mdz: I think nobody really does :(
<cjwatson> I think it probably is a regression, but people using both /etc/network/interfaces (non-trivially) and network-manager have had to deal with all sorts of crap :-/
<cjwatson> a new plugin is no more invasive that n-m 0.7 is to start with, I feel ...
<mdz> pitti: would it help to have someone figure out how it was working in 8.04?
<mdz> since there seem to be multiple paths which handle those events
<pitti> mdz: yes, absolutely
<pitti> yeah, at least hal+hal-info and acpi-support are doing basically the same thing slightly differently
<pitti> and now -evdev grabs them as well, which doesn't make things easier
<mdz> pitti: what does the fdi file actually do?
<pitti> mdz: it basically tells -evdev to ignore the spethial keys
<pitti> so that hal and acpid grab them again
<mdz> pitti: should we open a separate bug about the brightness keys?  that seems like it may be a different issue
<pitti> and thus run the acpi-support scripts / the hal addons
<slangasek> pitti: acpid was always grabbing them...
<mdz> slangasek: indeed
<pitti> slangasek: yeah, whichever hal/acpid got it first, I suppose
<pitti> but nice to see that everyone seems to have a different piece of the puzzle
<slangasek> I don't know how hal grabs them, but it appears to /not/ be through the /proc/acpi/events interface or the acpid socket
<pitti> I purged acpid and acpi-support, and things still work the same as before; that's when hal/hal-info take over and do what we do with acpi-support
<mdz> in the longer term, should we be aiming to get rid of acpid entirely?
<pitti> mdz: ++
<pitti> and acpi-support as well
<cjwatson> as I said, bryce's studies of acpi-support are aimed at having enough knowledge to get rid of it in jaunty
<pitti> I think the right thing to do is to convert our remaining delta in acpi-support to hal-fdi scripts and submit that upstream, and forget about that Ubuntuism
<mdz> slangasek: hal *should* be getting them via the acpid socket if acpid is running
<cjwatson> we just need to do it at the start of the cycle rather than vacillating for a few months
<mdz> pitti: ok, agreed
<cjwatson> which involves somebody who cares at the start of the cycle
<mdz> but that's probably not feasible for intrepid
<pitti> mdz: no, too much regression potential
<mdz> pitti: I have a thinkpad running 8.04 where all of the hotkeys work, I'll look at that over the weekend
<mdz> I'll take an action for that
<zul> ls
<slangasek> mdz: one thing I've observed is that if I stop acpid while hal is running, hald-addon-acpi doesn't reconnect to /proc/acpi/event, but the hotkeys still work
<mdz> slangasek: *boggle*
<slangasek> [ACTION] mdz to look into how hotkeys worked in 8.04 (bug #267682)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to look into how hotkeys worked in 8.04 (bug #267682)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267682 in linux "Hotkeys no longer working in Intrepid on Thinkpads" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267682
<pitti> slangasek: *all* of them? my computer has brightness hardwired, for example
<mdz> it's not the same thinkpad where I'm experiencing 267682, but hopefully it will  shed some light
<pitti> slangasek: but yeah, that stuns me as well
<slangasek> pitti: all of the ones reported to work in my last comment on the bug
<cjwatson> we're at 14 minutes on my slot now ...
<pitti> slangasek: -evdev -> gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-pwoer-manager then perhaps?
<pitti> slangasek: or did you have Timo's fdi in place as well?
<slangasek> pitti: this is specifically with Timo's fdi in place
<pitti> boggle
<slangasek> anyway, let's continue this seemingly-endless discussion on #ubuntu-devel :/
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> dendrobates: hi
<dendrobates> HI
<dendrobates> We have no critical bugs at this point, but we are still triaging some of the kvm bugs.
<dendrobates> one possible upload though,
<dendrobates> we are waiting to hear back fomr amazon about opensourcing some scrpits used with ec2
<dendrobates> we have already integrated these scripts into vmbuilder, but have not uploaded that version.
<dendrobates> we are expecting to hear by the beginning of bext week.
<dendrobates> and we have a bug for the ec2 kernel issue, 274849
<slangasek> vmbuilder> ok; that sounds like it will probably slip until post-beta then?
<slangasek> (i.e., release team probably won't accept it into the archive for beta that late)
<mdz> dendrobates: are there any important changes in vmbuilder which are blocked by the licensing issue?
<pitti> dendrobates: is the krb5-kdc -> main issue critical for beta?
<mdz> dendrobates: I thought you asked amazon about those scripts weeks ago
<dendrobates> mdz the ability to directly use AMI.
<mdz> bug 274849
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274849 in linux "2.6.27 (xen paravirt ops) crashes on ec2." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274849
<dendrobates> mdz:  we did, but they are a large company, the developer has agreed, but needs approval.
<dendrobates> we have a potential fix for 274849: http://people.ubuntu.com/~chucks/kernel-xen.diff
<dendrobates> they told us they could tell us by next week.
<dendrobates> we can still build and  ec2 images if they do not opensource it, but we cannot integrate the deployment functionality into vmbuilder.
<dendrobates> pitti: I don't think it is critical to beta
<slangasek> patch for 274849> not mentioned in the bug itself?
<pitti> dendrobates: *nod* (it's also fairly new)
<dendrobates> slangasek: it;s all very new, updating now.
<mdz> dendrobates: is it impossible to do without their scripts, or would we just need to reimplement some of them?
<dendrobates> mdz we might need to make it a two stage process, where either a webapp helps you deploy, or we perhaps another app in muti-verse that deploys.
<dendrobates> mdz: chuck soren and I are working through the possibilities.
<dendrobates> but we really hope amazone says yes.
<cjwatson> [server slot at 13 minutes]
<slangasek> yes, there doesn't seem to be much more we can do about EC2 here in the meeting
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> ScottK doesn't appear to be about today; is there anyone else who can speak on behalf of motu-release?
<cjwatson> Hobbsee perhaps?
<slangasek> Hobbsee isn't on motu-release this cycle
<cjwatson> ah
<slangasek> none of the others are here either; I'll take that as a "everything's going great" and move along :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] General feature update
<MootBot> New Topic:  General feature update
<slangasek> this should be a null topic because we're all working on bugfixes right now instead of features, but just in case, does anyone have anything to discuss here? :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Known regressions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Known regressions
<mdz> [LINK] http://people.ubuntu.com/~sbeattie/regression_tracker.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~sbeattie/regression_tracker.html
<cjwatson> oh, that's nice
<slangasek> yes, it is
<slangasek> except the count is too high, hmm :)
<bdmurray> we've had some possibly overzealous tagging
<slangasek> is the QA team reviewing these tags for correctness?
<mdz> sbeattie: ^^
<mdz> the ones I've seen get tagged are reasonably accurate
<slangasek> can the tagging policy require that the facts of the regression are documented in the bug log itself?
<bdmurray> slangasek: it does
<cjwatson> 92014 is an ... interesting suggestion for "regression"
<mdz> slangasek: ++
<sbeattie> yes, been reviewing a bit.
<slangasek> bdmurray: ah; then I should consider myself at liberty to remove the tag from any where this is not the case?
<sbeattie> slangasek: agreed, we'll add that to the documentation.
<sbeattie> slangasek: yes
<slangasek> (e.g., the n-m bug discussed earlier)
<cjwatson> where's the documentation for the tag semantics? could it be linked from the tracker?
<cjwatson> (something a little more extensive than the one-liners, if any)
<slangasek> ok; that page gives us something to digest off-line
<sbeattie> cjwatson: it needs fleshing out but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RegressionTracking is it.
<slangasek> which I'll definitely have to do
<cjwatson> sbeattie: thanks
<mdz> while we have everyone's eyes on it...does that page render very slowly in firefox for anyone else?
<cjwatson> no
<slangasek> it scrolls slowly for me
<mdz> scrolls very slowly for me
<pitti> it starts scrolling slowly halfway down
<pitti> initial rendering is fasat
<mdz> ok, thanks, don't want to interrupt the flow of the meeting
<slangasek> [TOPIC] hardware testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  hardware testing
<slangasek> heno and cr3 aren't here to give us an update, but I've discussed hardware certification with them earlier this week
<mdz> I received a report from Henrik a little while ago
<mdz> it's a bit difficult to interpret though, I think it still needs work
<slangasek> hardware cert is ongoing and results seem to be good, but the website lacks a summary view
<sbeattie> yes, reporting needs work.
<slangasek> I've asked them (and David Murphy) for a summary that will show which tests are failing, which hardware has test failures, and which hardware (if any) hasn't been tested recently
<sbeattie> cr3 and schwuk are open to suggestions on what/how to report
<mdz> slangasek: I've forwarded you what I have in case you didn't already have it
<slangasek> mdz: ok, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
<sbeattie> slangasek: I think it'd be useful to have an overview of what's being tested (successfully) as well.
<slangasek> desktop CDs are oversized again; we got several days'-worth of changes in a batch due to some livefs build issues, and now we're at 711MB for both archs
<mdz> sbeattie: yes, it should be a simple red/yellow/green for every system
<cjwatson> has anyone done a diff against 20080923?
<slangasek> I have the diff of newly-added packages - looks like landscape-common, libcanberra-gnome, and bluez-{input,network,serial} are the new top-level additions, so I'll be chasing these up today to find out who's to blame for eating up all the space (there are a /lot/ of libs pulled in)
<cjwatson> (build logs should still be around, at least)
<cjwatson> ok
<slangasek> so in the meantime, everybody just keep thinking thin :-)
<pitti> slangasek: for the record, it's not langpacks; they haven't changed since sept 6, due to the export crashing for some dubious reason
<slangasek> pitti: noted :)
<pitti> bluez-* are in fact new, but were split-outs from hardy
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> and that's all I have - anything else?
<mdz> slangasek: well done finishing up on time
<Riddell> slangasek: KDE 4.1.2
<Riddell> we have tars now, we could upload this weekend probably
<Riddell> or wait until after beta if preferred
<slangasek> better before beta than after
<mvo> is there a chance for the feature freeze exception for compiz 0.7.8 to be considered before beta?
<slangasek> mvo: yes; let's discuss that separately
<mvo> ok, thanks
<Riddell> slangasek: I'll get the kubuntu packaging ninjas onto it
<slangasek> sounds like we're done, then
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:35.
<slangasek> thanks, folks
<dendrobates> byeee
<pitti> thanks everyone
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 30 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 30 Sep 19:00: LoCo Council | 01 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 01 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-27
<Hobbsee> slangasek: sorry, i went to bed :)
<slangasek> hah :)
<Hobbsee> slangasek: afaik, motu-release is OK, but i'm not on it
 * slangasek nods
<Hobbsee> it was 1am
<slangasek> yeah, I was surprised you were up for the start, even. :)
<Hobbsee> slangasek: i was at work last night, so was awake :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-28
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 30 Sep 19:00: LoCo Council | 01 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 01 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
<juliux> @schedule
<ubottu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 30 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 30 Sep 19:00: LoCo Council | 01 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 01 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-21
<kees> jdstrand, mdeslaur: ok, starting...
<mdeslaur> go
<kees> I'm at LinuxCon/ Plumber's Conf this week.  will publish the now tested neon
<kees> looking at valgrind, finished gdb and will be watching for regressions
<jdstrand> kees: is that the valgrind bug I never got back to?
<kees> will likely take the glibc issue once upstream has fixed it
<kees> jdstrand: yeah, but it looks like an FFe will fix it
<kees> i.e. 3.5.0-1 fixes it
<jdstrand> that will be much easier
<kees> I've started doing karmic installs and running qa tests
<kees> we should probably get a bit more organized about our release testing :P
<kees> that's it for me
<jdstrand> shall I go?
<kees> sure
<jdstrand> the two main things I am working on is libvirt/apparmor and the openoffice.org update
<kees> (oh, i'm also working on apparmor with keybuk this week)
<jdstrand> the former is for upstreaming and syncing that work with karmic, which will fix a couple of important bugs
<kees> jdstrand: be sure not to forget the nogst build option for OOo
<jdstrand> the latter is just time consuming
<kees> yeah
<sbeattie> kees: we should synchronize testing; I did a smidgen of qa-r-t testing for alpha 6
<jdstrand> we should
<jdstrand> (that's it from me)
<kees> sbeattie: oh good, yeah, some kind of sign-up process
<mdeslaur> my trn
<mdeslaur> I was looking at the webkit issues this morning. I plan to only fix the medium severity issues (ie: code execution).
<mdeslaur> I've got them all except one
<jdstrand> awesome :)
<mdeslaur> CVE-2009-1701 patch is non-obvious and code has substantially changed
<mdeslaur> I won't be able to fix that one
<kees> hat's fine
<mdeslaur> And this week I'm on triage
<jdstrand> oh, I'm on community
<kees> cool. meeting over?
<mdeslaur> that's it for me
<jdstrand> sure
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-22
<zakame> hi
<czajkowski> zakame: morning
<zakame> heya, just turning evening here :)
<ZachK18> hello?
<amachu> ZachK18: Hi
<ZachK18> amachu, hello...are you one of the board members for the Asia and Oceania regional approval board meeting?
<amachu> yes
<ZachK18> well that's what i'm here for
<amachu> some ten minutes to go
<ZachK18> yeo
<ZachK18> "yep
<ZachK18> have you had a chance to "look me over?
 * persia peers about
<ZachK18> hello persia
<amachu> hi
<elky> oh. i guess i wont start driving home just now.
<amachu> persia: zakame: lifeless: elky: hi
<ZachK18> i guess the other guy who wanted membership isn't gonna show up
<persia> Well, technically, there's a bit to go.
<elky> ZachK18, there's still a few minutes to wait, don't be like that :)
<ZachK18> ah..ok....i've got nothing but time
 * ZachK18 sits down, sips water......waits
<persia> Plus there only seems to be three of us yet.  Usually we like to have at least four.
<ZachK18> three who? board members?
<persia> Yes.
<ZachK18> ah...got yo...
<ZachK18> would any of you like to look over my wiki while we wait?
<zakame> hello
<persia> There we go.  quorum is achieved.
<zakame> its been a while
<amachu> lifeless: are you here?
<elky> a zakame!
<lifeless> hi
<amachu> cool
<elky> ...
<amachu> themuso is missing today..
<ZachK18> ah..i'm back
<amachu> well, we begin now
<amachu> Welcome persia, elky, lifeless & zakame
<amachu> indus is n't here it seems
<zakame> hi amachu , everyone
<ZachK18> Good morning board members
<ZachK18> well, morning for me anyway....five am
<amachu> so, ZachK18, go ahead, presenting yourself & your contributions to Ubuntu
<ZachK18> shall i just give my links? it's a fairly big list...
<persia> We'd like a two or three line intro.
<persia> We'll read your wiki page for the links.
<ZachK18> Roger that.
<ZachK18> Well first I'm Zach....I started using Ubuntu 100% four months ago...and since that time I post on the forums, use Irc freenode...and I'm currently documenting Firebird with apache2 and php5 on Ubuntu jaunty
<elky> had you been using linux/ubuntu long before you moved over completely?
<ZachK18> Good question...no. My first encounter with Linux Ubuntu was when 8.04 very first came out. Tried it but because it was in beta or just released from beta stage...(didn't know that at the time) i quit using it. Then a year later here i am
<ZachK18> Started using Ubuntu Jaunty slightly for curiousness and because I dislike MS to begin with the transition was Very Easy
<amachu> ZachK18: are there people to support you?
<ZachK18> Well I won't say because I wish not to put people on the spot but my master on the Ubuntu BT Padawan team is Tim_Sharrit and most of my "friends" are actually on the #ubuntu-beginners channel as we speak
<ZachK18> Silver_Fox for example or lukjad007
<zakame> can you invite them here so we can hear them out :)
<ZachK18> Sure ;)
<elky> ZachK18, we like to hear testimonials about prospective members.
<zakame> cool
<lukjad007> Hi?
<ZachK18> lukjad007, thanks!
<lukjad007> Sorry, what's going on exactly? I just saw the ping
<elky> lukjad007, how well do you know ZachK18?
<amachu> lukjad007: and what would you say about his contributions
<lukjad007> elky I've seen him around the #ubuntu-beginners and #ubuntu-doc channels for a couple of weeks at least.
<elky> lukjad007, what about him do you think makes him a good member candidate?
<lukjad007> Silver_Fox_ Probably knows more about his contributions, to be honest.
<ZachK18> Silver_Fox_? you here?
<persia> ZachK18, You seem to be active in several areas, proceeding through various processes (doc team contributor, beginner's team padawan).  How do you feel these processes work, and do you feel like you're reaching a "next stage" in any of them?
<Silver_Fox_> yes zack18,  i am typing
<ZachK18> Well I definitely feel as though I'm reaching a "next stage" in those areas.
<ZachK18> How I feel they work would be to lengthy to explain but I will try my best.
<Silver_Fox_> Though I have only known Zack18 for a short period,  he has amazed me with the amount of time he spends in #ubuntu-beginners-help .  He is friendly and welcomes new people who come across the beginners channel.
<ZachK18> The documentation team exists for different purposes, mainly to document different areas of Ubuntu. Whether it's support, questions, or just editing the wiki
<ZachK18> the doc team must be there for Ubuntu to succeed. without it, well, it just wouldn't be the same
<elky> Well, I think ZachK18 has made a good start, but i'm not yet satisfied with the level of significance. 0 from me.
<ZachK18> The beginners team padawan is for the more experienced users of Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community to "take on" the younger users if you will, and show them the ropes perse...explain the proper ways to edit the wiki if they choose to go that route or proper use of the forums
<zakame> ZachK18: how's your experience with your previous OS, and does it help you in your current experience with ubuntu?
<amachu> ZachK18: You have a good start, but I would like to see more from you to give a +1
<persia> I'm -1: not yet.  I think there's great progress, but would like to see testimonials that didn't reference "a short time", and completion of some of the team integration processes underway.
<ZachK18> Well my experience with Windows if very large. Especially in using Open Office(in place of MS word!) so the writing and documentation part comes very easy as I like to write so that experience helps. Supporting others with errors and bugs is also very easy as I can search many areas of the Web in a short amount of time...(that experience is needed due to MS bugs)
<ZachK18> shall i list my wiki link?
<zakame> cool, that's good to hear, and the further experience you have helps
<elky> amachu, lifeless, questions for ZachK18?
<ZachK18> If the esteemed board would wish, here is my wiki page for evaluation. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zachk18
<amachu> elky: I am awaiting lifeless & zakame's vote
<amachu> zakame: are you there?
<amachu> & lifeless?
<zakame> I would want to see some ZachK18 give some more time, he seems to be doing great work and I want him to succeed there
<zakame> not to mention being a namesake :P
<amachu> zakame: thanks. and i didn't see a reply from lifeless for the entire session.
<ZachK18> is that a 0 zakame?
<elky> zakame, so that's 0 or -1?
<zakame> a 0
<elky> lifeless: ping?
<amachu> Zack18: that would mean all of us feeling that you have a good beginning and would like to see more, for the membership
<amachu> elky: didn't hear from since the beginning
<ZachK18> i figured...i'm just an optimistic person by nature...
<amachu> ZachK18: So we wish you all the best in future
<ZachK18> well, thanks anyway
<zakame> its not bad at all
<amachu> keep up the good work.
<ZachK18> If you wish to contact me i'll be around...
<persia> ZachK18, Thanks for helping so far, and we'll look forward to seeing you back when you've a bit more documented.
<ZachK18> any recommendations?
<amachu> persia: elky: zakame: anything else to discuss here?
<elky> amachu, we are lacking our second applicant?
<ZachK18> yes you are...he's not here...
<amachu> elky: yes
<persia> ZachK18, Just keep doing what you are doing, get some testimonials on your wiki page demonstrating that more of your work is significant, and come visit again.
<elky> excellent, then i can drive home from work via food! :D
<zakame> ZachK18: any immediate plans for your team participations?
<ZachK18> So, for an overall score, what'd i get from all of you...0 to 10
<persia> We don't do it that way.
<persia> We just do -1 to 1.
<persia> But it averages about -0.25, if I read the votes correctly.
<ZachK18> well immediate plans....did any of you look at my documentation for Firebird? it's something that nobody, and i stress strongly nobody knows how to do
<lifeless> sorry elky got stuck in a GPL/LGPL/BSD licencing mail :(
<elky> lifeless, EWW!
<amachu> lifeless: same old trap :-)
<zakame> lifeless: lolwut
<lifeless> so, I'm with persia
<amachu> lifeless: We has ZachK18 here today, all of us felt he need to improve upon.
<ZachK18> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu-with-Firebird-Database
<lifeless> I concur
<elky> lifeless: we had 4 votes, so it's up to you if you want to read scrollback and throw your opinion in
<persia> ZachK18, It's a good start, but it's not yet complete :)
<lifeless> elky: actually, I'm starting it. I wrote infrastructure code as GPL. This was a mistake, now I have to convince the contributors to relicence.
<amachu> lifeless: would you like to take some time, to give your feedback on ZachK18
<ZachK18> the firebird doc is something that no one in the community that i've talked to knows how to get working..
<lifeless> amachu: I don't have anything additional; you've all said exactly what I would have
<lifeless> doing good stuff is great.
<lifeless> keep doing it!
<elky> lifeless, this sounds almost like something that may have been discussed in a pub roughly 3.5 weeks ago.
<lifeless> elky: its been brewing for a bit
<lifeless> elky: but its only accidentally connected to that post SLUG chat
<amachu> lifeless: fine. anything else for any one to discuss?
<elky> lifeless, i look forward to hearing about this at the pub in .5 weeks then :)
<amachu> persia: elky: zakame: ?
<ZachK18> is that it then?
<elky> amachu, i think we're done amachu, thanks for chairing :)
<lifeless> elky: you should't let your ubuntu membership expire btw ;)
<ZachK18> if that's it then i'm gonna head on over to #ubuntu-beginners-help
<zakame> ZachK18: pretty good stuff, keep at it
<elky> lifeless, yes, and i should stick to my first answer when my boss says "do you want to be the business manager"
<ZachK18> Board, I appreciate the time, suggestions, and consideration. Until our next meeting.
<persia> amachu, I'm set.
<amachu> fine then. Thank you all for participating.
<amachu> Next meeting will be on 13 Oct 09. Hope we get a new member to the Board in between that :-)
 * ZachK18 waves to get amachu's attention...lol
<ZachK18> thanks gents
<ZachK18> don't worry about my determinations wanning guys...i'll still be here even if i never get membership
<elky> ZachK18, good to hear, and i hope to see you in several months time with a much bigger resume.
<ZachK18> me too! hope i can do that
<ZachK18> Thanks again
<lifeless> elky: https://lists.launchpad.net/subunit-dev/msg00033.html
<lifeless> soren: ^
<lool> ogra, NCommander, GrueMaster, plars, njpatel, ian_brasil, dyfet, StevenK: meeting in 3
<lool> or 2 rather
<ogra> moo moo
 * plars is here
<lool> no bfiller, paulliu, bjf, davidm
 * ian_brasil opens a sleepy eye
<StevenK> But I'm on leave ... ?
<Hobbsee> You apparently have to attend anyway
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<StevenK> So it would seem
 * JamieBennett is observing again
<lool> StevenK: You're welcome to join if you like  :-)
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090922
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090922
<lool> JamieBennett: Ah right didn't think of pinging you
<NCommander> [link] http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html
<JamieBennett> lool: np
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
 * NCommander waits for a few more people to pop up alive
<lool> davidm and GrueMaster are at a conference so let's not wait for them
 * GrueMaster is not alive until he gets coffee.
<lool> Just like bjf AFAIK
<lool> oh here he is
<lool> gruemaster: will davidm join?
<GrueMaster> I don't know.  I'm at home, he's in a luxury hotel.
<ogra> ah, softer beds
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<GrueMaster> ogra: much softer.
<lool> NCommander: Dont topic each of them; let's just go over them
<NCommander> ok
<lool> NCommander: you're first
<NCommander> My one action item was implemented my lool. Its pending upload.
<NCommander> *by
 * NCommander is NOT awake yet
<lool> NCommander: Actually you're right that more work is required
<lool> NCommander: Such as libd-i and base-installer changes
<lool> dont think we need to do the ubiquity changes, especially for z0
<NCommander> lool, flash-kernel will bee to be changed for the new platform
<ogra> bssss .... mind the bees :)
<NCommander> if we want uImage creation to happen automaitcally
<lool> NCommander: Oh right; trivially though
<NCommander> lool, indeed
<lool> NCommander: so let's keep an action on this?
<lool> [action] complete dove z0 d-i support (NCommander)
<NCommander> [action] complete dove z0 d-i support (NCommander)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  complete dove z0 d-i support (NCommander)
<lool> dyfet: Around?
<lool> AFAICS the lubuntu stuff is still in lala land
<GrueMaster> He's also at the conference.
<lool> seed in junk
<ogra> oh, soft beds as well
<lool> ubiquity was dropped from desktop
<ogra> ++
<ogra> already a good move
<lool> [action] move lubuntu seed to proper location and enable the meta on amd64 (dyfet)
<lool> NCommander: ^
<NCommander> [action] move lubuntu seed to proper location and enable the meta on amd64 (dyfet)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  move lubuntu seed to proper location and enable the meta on amd64 (dyfet)
<lool> I wonder what mysql is doing in the lubuntu live seed though
<lool> probably I dont need to know
<ogra> serving SQL :)
 * NCommander pokes plars 
<lool> NCommander: I'm next I think
<lool> NCommander: Pleaes co lool to setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here
<lool> [action] setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here (lool, c/o)
<plars> my turn now?
<lool> paulliu isn't around
<NCommander>  [action] setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here (lool, c/o)
<NCommander> [action] setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here (lool, c/o)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here (lool, c/o)
<lool> NCommander: co paulliu's
<plars> I haven't had a chance to talk to the QA team about it and see if they have any advice to offer, but I'd like to go ahead and let those on the team look at the proposed changes and see what you think.
 * NCommander should just chair lool if he's going to give me copy/paste lines
<lool> [action] file question against soyuz on PPA size (paulliu, c/o)
<NCommander> [action] c/o pauliu's specs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  c/o pauliu's specs
<lool> (I'm trying to speed things up; I'm busy  :-)
<ogra> NCommander, that would be to easy ... we couldnt blame you
<plars> you done now? :)
<lool> plars: URL?
<plars> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/BugWorkflow
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/BugWorkflow
<lool> plars: High level remark: we should try avoiding organisation for the mobile team
<plars> A description of the proposed changes are in a grey box at the bottom of the page.  In essence, the goal is to try to help focus attention on important bugs, while trying to keep the bug spam volume low for those on the team
<plars> lool: ?
<lool> even if the canonical mobile team is driving this effort and we have some specific things assigned to this team, it's best if we can keep things related to UNR moblin and armel separate from the canonical-mobile concept if you see what I mean
<plars> lool: ah, right
<plars> lool: you mentioned that last time, and then said to leave it
<plars> lool: it can be easily split
<lool> pff I suck
<lool> human-netbook-theme > we still use that??
<lool> I dont think so it's in universe
<lool> same for netbook-config > not in ubuntu
<ogra> write a MIOR so it matches the wiki again :P
<ogra> *MIR
<lool> plars: humanity-icon-theme
<plars> so I'm interested in feedback as to whether those (especially those on ~ubuntu-unr) believe this is a good change, or if they would just end up subscribing to the -qa team anyway so as to see everything
<StevenK> human-netbook-theme already had an MIR, and already got approved, so it can just move back again
<plars> lool: will correct, that's old
<ogra> StevenK, i wasnt serious you know :)
<plars> lool: that's not in the changes :)
<lool> plars: Should we integrate with the new bug reporting guidelines?
<lool> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs etc.
<lool> or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage
<plars> lool: I can look at that, and those are good suggestions, but specifically I'm looking for feedback on the changes wrt our team at the bottom of the page
<ogra> lool, 90% of the bugs i file dont work with the new guidelines anyway
<lool> plars: So what I mentionned about the ubuntu-unr tag is that it might make sense to stop keeping it to mean specific to unr
<ogra> i rarely file from the system i see the bug on
<lool> plars: I mean, if we get too many bugs filed from UNR as is increasingly the case, it's not scaling up well
 * NCommander hates the new bug guidelines with a passion
<plars> lool: yeah, maybe it could mean that it was just filed from a system that happened to be running unr?
<lool> plars: So for ubuntu-unr/armel tags, we could have "this is specific to environment foo" tags which we add explicitely
<NCommander> ogra, you could technically collect a bug report, SCP it over, and then ubuntu-bug it
<lool> plars: e.g. unr-specific and armel-specific
<lool> plars: Yeah
<lool> plars: But we only need to change the meaning when we're flooded
<lool> Not the case for armel for instance
<ogra> NCommander, sure, i can also grow grass on my knee if i try hard enough
 * plars directs lool to #3 on the section at the bottom of the page
<ogra> tehoretically
 * plars points both hands to the section at the bottom of the page where the proposed changes are
<lool> plars: Oh I thought you wanted us to review the full page not the bottom changes; apologies
<plars> :)
<plars> ogra: there's a way around that if you have a .crash file, even on a system where you can't get network access
<lool> plars: The changes look fine
<ogra> plars, i know, but many of my reports neither use or need .crash files on armel
<plars> ogra: but yeah, clearly some bugs *have* to be filed manually - we just want to encourage people to use apport if at all possible
<NCommander> plars, I note for the record the *vast* majority of stuff I file == no crash
<lool> plars: We need to cover the priority setting/milestoning actions too
<plars> lool: correct
<ogra> ++
<NCommander> ++
<ogra> and tatoo them on NCommanders forehead :P
<NCommander> --
<StevenK> Win!
<plars> and that's a point I'm somewhat fuzzy on... especially since lp doesn't have a separate notion of priority vs. importance
<lool> along poiuytrewq?
<StevenK> I'll help fund the tattoo
<plars> the two are not always synonymous
<ogra> lool, indeed
<lool> plars: moblin tag > yeah please file a bug on this
<lool> Not sure where I'd add it but that's easy
<lool> perhaps just moblin
<plars> lool: seems sensible since that's where we have everything else for moblin
<plars> one other outstanding question I have - do we want to just do this for UNR, or for armel as well?
<lool> Sorry I mean the tag name would be "moblin" not ubuntu-moblin
<plars> in armel, the bug volume is currently much lower
<lool> plars: The -qa?
<lool> I think it only makes sense for unr
<plars> lool: yes
<lool> it might be needed for armel but dealing with multiple teams etc. is painful so if we can avoid it...
<plars> I'd like to defer it for armel unless someone has an objection to that
<plars> so, just do it for unr for now, see how it goes
<lool> plars: I confirmed with design team that assigning ~canonical-ux is the right escalation path
<plars> lool: cool, and they want assigned, not just subscribed?
<NCommander> plars, lool, what AR/Minutes do we take away from then?
<plars> I know some teams are picky about that
<lool> assigned means they have to comment or fix so I think it's the right thing to do
<lool> they were fine with assignments
<plars> ok
<lool> NCommander: ?
<NCommander> lool, I'm trying to figure out how to summarize plars down into a one line summary for the minutes
<NCommander> er, *ahem*
<StevenK> Haha
<NCommander> plars's bug triage notes
<StevenK> plars in one line.
<lool> [agreed] Approve update from plars on bug triaging guidelines
<plars> NCommander: basically the bug workflow is just being tweaked
<lool> You can shorten plars to 5 chars
<NCommander> [action] plars to update the bug workflow
<MootBot> ACTION received:  plars to update the bug workflow
<NCommander> [topic] UMR Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  UMR Status
<lool> bfiller: Hey
<bfiller> lool: hello
<lool> bfiller: Sorry didn't setup a meeting about moblin this week
<lool> I think we should try to chat next weel
<lool> Biggest update is TMC stuff
<lool> Was blocking further progress to karmic
<lool> paulliu confirmed to me earlier that this was all working for him now
<lool> bfiller: One big question is whether we could use 2.1 components or not?
<lool> bfiller: The TMC updates will land in 2.1 but we could carry them on top of 2.0
<bfiller> lool: would be great to get 2.1 components in, but they are not available yet
<lool> overall, moblin status is improving but images are still failing to build
<lool> bfiller: So no objection to use them; that's fine
<lool> I under paulliu will merge latest empathy bits and we should be able to build images again
<bfiller> lool: it is a requirement we use 2.1 for next OEM image
<lool> bfiller: Cool that's aligned then
<lool> The other topic which made no progress is compliance work, at least on my side
<lool> GrueMaster: anything your side?
<bfiller> lool: there are 3 things I'd like to add
<GrueMaster> We had a teleconference with Intel last week.
<GrueMaster> Waiting for them to finalize 1.0 spec.
<lool> GrueMaster: Right but I think we want to start setting up daily runs and raise issues with the test tools
<GrueMaster> I plan on discussing compliance with the LinuxFoundation today or tomorrow at the conference.
<NCommander> GrueMaster, what's the timefame on them finalizing 1.0?
<lool> bfiller: Please dump them here any time
<GrueMaster> NCommander: they don't know
<lool> bfiller: I've seen you assigned some bugs; thanks
<bfiller> lool: 1) there are many packages in Karmic PPA that are old or need version bumps, so these need to be assigned to people
<bfiller> oem folks are doing some, pauliu will need to help as well
<GrueMaster> lool: daily runs would be a lot of work, considering the test suite takes ~26 hours to run.
<lool> bfiller: Yes, top priority was to move new packages to karmic; I'd like to use a tracker for the PPA -> karmic merges apart of that
<GrueMaster> Unless I pare it down.
<GrueMaster> And that doesn't include manual tests.
<lool> GrueMaster: well continuous runs then; perhaps we should bring it up that 26 hours is too long?
<bfiller> 2) I have triaged some bugs and added some new ones, we really need to address https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-moblin-remix/+bug/434243 soon I think to have stability in the package versions
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434243 in ubuntu-moblin-remix "configure apt_preferences to use PPA for moblin build" [High,Triaged]
<bfiller> lool: we had previously talked about this
<lool> bfiller: Yes
<lool> bfiller: I didnt have time to look into this
<bfiller> lool: agreed about that tracker
<GrueMaster> The other issue with compliance is library versions.  We apparently have some newer clutter libs than moblin.org.
<lool> bfiller: I can explain where the file needs to be created and where the format is documented but didn't have time to verify things work as intended
<bfiller> lool: I assigned the apt bug to StevenK, not sure if he is the right person 0r not
<lool> bfiller: he probably is except he's on leave for a week
<StevenK> I didn't see that bug?
<StevenK> Oh, that bug
<lool> GrueMaster: So did you report these upstream>
<StevenK> Yes, that's a livecd-rootfs issue. Patches welcome
<GrueMaster> This was brought up in the phone meeting.
<lool> GrueMaster: I think we need to push more stuff in the intel bug tracker
<NCommander> lool, bfiller five minute warning
<GrueMaster> It already has been reported.  It is a spec compliance issue.
<GrueMaster> Hard to be compliant to a spec that isn't finalized.
<lool> GrueMaster: From my perspective, you're owning the moblin compliance stuff and I'd love you to drive the issues you raised here or on the phone call upstream
<bfiller> lool: can you assign someone else on your team to look at 434243 while steven is goine?
<lool> bfiller: The only other person would be me; unless someone here would like to step up?
<lool> ogra, dyfet, or anybody ^
<StevenK> Hm. It isn't hard to fix for the live system
<GrueMaster> lool: I am already driving it, along with davidm.
<bfiller> StevenK: do you have cycles to get it done before you leave?
<bfiller> how about NCommander :)?
<ogra> lool, my plate is full ... but if there is nop other one ...
<StevenK> bfiller: I left two days ago :-P
<bfiller> StevenK: rats
<NCommander> bfiller, what's a spare cycle?
<lool> GrueMaster: Well we might have to tell them that we have version foo of the while spec says we need version foobar and that needs to be fixed in the spec
<StevenK> bfiller: I'm not back until next Monday the 28th
<lool> The bug isn't that the spec isn't at 1.0 but rather that the current spec says we're incompatible
<ogra> bfiller, NCommander doesnt sleep, he should have extra cycles :P
<NCommander> three minute warning
<GrueMaster> lool: we know this.  they know this.
<bfiller> NCommander: enought time to fix 434243 :)
<NCommander> ogra, *sigh* thats more true than you realize
<lool> GrueMaster: So you're saying it's reported?
<GrueMaster> YES
<lool> GrueMaster: OKAY
<bfiller> NCommander: bang it out
<lool> GrueMaster: What about the other bits?
<GrueMaster> Whish is why davidm and I are taking it up with the linux foundation while at the conference.
<GrueMaster> s/whish/which
<NCommander> bfiller, if you give me an /etc/apt/preferences file, I'll hit livecd-rootfs with a cluebat
<NCommander> two minute warning
<NCommander> s/two/one/g
<GrueMaster> [action] GrueMaster to continue driving moblin compliance issues with the LinuxFoundation.
<GrueMaster> there.
<lool> Ok anything else for moblin?
<lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-moblin
<NCommander> [action] GrueMaster to continue driving moblin compliance issues with the LinuxFoundati
<MootBot> ACTION received:  GrueMaster to continue driving moblin compliance issues with the LinuxFoundati
<NCommander> [action] GrueMaster to continue driving moblin compliance issues with the LinuxFoundation
<MootBot> ACTION received:  GrueMaster to continue driving moblin compliance issues with the LinuxFoundation
<bfiller> that's it for me
<lool> Ok thanks
<NCommander> [topic] UNR Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  UNR Status
<ogra> you still have a minute
<lool> njpatel: You around?
<njpatel> yep
<lool> So UNR status is pretty good
<lool> ISO size was an issue but went down with the desktop one making some progress
<lool> Still needs to be trimmed further
<lool> GrueMaster: Updates on this?
<lool> I added a bunch of packages to the seed as a result of a full review of desktop versus netbook-remix I did over the WE
<GrueMaster> Not since it was inadvertently bloated over the weekend.  I'm in a conference all week.
<lool> Ok so no progress last week
 * GrueMaster still has a real life.  :P
<lool> And you say no progress next week
<StevenK> It wasn't bloated, it was brought into line with desktop
<StevenK> That isn't bloat
<lool> GrueMaster: Right I just fixed some missing packages rather than added random crap
<lool> GrueMaster: I think the discussionon trimming it down started before that anyway
<GrueMaster> Well, I mentioned it yesterday to davidm, and he suggested pulling some lang-packs.  Starting with French.
<plars> in any case, it's down to 691M now, win
<GrueMaster> plars: cool.
<njpatel> StevenK: it's all bloat. we only need vim-full and links ;-)
<lool> GrueMaster: langpacks are precisely what we want to add, not remove
<StevenK> GrueMaster: French and German were killed weeks ago
<lool> Which is why we're trying to get the size down
<StevenK> And I told davidm when I did
<NCommander> plars, lool stupid question, if I need to flie a bug which is chiefly a seed issue, where does it go?
<GrueMaster> JOKES, PEOPLE!
<lool> Fixing the size by removing langpacks is the wrong way of looking at the size problems; it's only an emergency solution
<lool> NCommander: meta usually
<StevenK> njpatel: When are you going to create vbuntu? :-P
 * NCommander discovered that Dove images can only be installed with the internet.
<plars> NCommander: on unr?
<NCommander> plars, no, dove
<lool> NCommander: if it's only in the live image, you can file it in the ubuntu-cdimages project but usually just ping someone
<ogra> wrong topic ?
<StevenK> GrueMaster: It seems making jokes about the image size to lool and me doesn't work.
<StevenK> ubuntu-cdimage, by the by
 * GrueMaster changes internal lang-pack to en-Pirate.
<NCommander> [action] lool to add uboot-mkimage to the desktop ship seed to make dove images non-dependent on internet access
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to add uboot-mkimage to the desktop ship seed to make dove images non-dependent on internet access
<NCommander> :-)
<lool> NCommander: Probably the alternate one too
<lool> Ok so apart of that UNR is doing ok
<ogra> doesnt the linux-image package dep on it like imx51 does on redboot-tools ?
<NCommander> lool, probably
<lool> I added a bunch of apport hooks since last week
<StevenK> Hm, I don't think en-Pirate is valid
<lool> thanks DBO & plars for bringing it up
<NCommander> lool, it probably needs to be in the platform ship seed actually
<lool> UNR bugs are probably worth looking at
 * NCommander notes that it should NOT be in the live image, as its dead space on everything else.
<plars> lool: I knew about the launcher one, did you do others as well?
<lool> GrueMaster: SO you had a focus on triaging bugs for UNR last week; did you find anything which needs to be raised to our attention?
<NCommander> BTW, four minute warning
<lool> plars: I did some this morning
<lool> plars: maximus, desktop-switcher
<plars> lool++
<lool> and gnone-panel is committed
<lool> but needs an apport fix first
<lool> which is committed too
<GrueMaster> I have a hard time reproducing bugs when my own netbook is down.  davidm is trying to get permission for me to expense a new one this week.
<lool> NCommander: Well we can make it armel specific
<lool> So no progress on UNR bug triage either
<ogra> if a dep from linux-image exists its even subarch specific
<NCommander> lool, well, I just want it in the CD pool vs. in the live image so imx51 doesn't end up with random junk; the installation of uboot-mkimage is done by f-k-i
<lool> njpatel: Anything you'd like to raise?
<lool> StevenK: What about you?
<lool> NCommander: Yes, so we're talking of ship-live and ship seeds
<njpatel> erm, not really, bugs milestoned for beta release will be fixed and released for thursday
<NCommander> lool, right. sorry. I am not awake yet :-/
<NCommander> lool, do you want me to file a bug, or is an action item enough?
<lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
<StevenK> lool: ENOCONTEXT?
<lool> Humanity bugs are mostly fix committed upstream
 * NCommander found this very very late last night after banging my head on why my images won't install
<lool> StevenK: 15:47 < lool> njpatel: Anything you'd like to raise?
<lool> StevenK: We're discussing UNR status
<lool> NCommander: The action item you assigned me to is enough
<NCommander> 1 minute warning on UNR status
<StevenK> lool: Oh. Only concerned with humanity -> human status
<lool> njpatel: So I'm not reverting back to Human and am blocked on design team for a couple of things
<StevenK> Ah
<lool> njpatel: and you too for software-store
<njpatel> lool: right, forgot about that
<lool> StevenK: it turns out design team really cares about humanity and in fact would like that to become GNOME's theme as well
<njpatel> (i mean, I was going to deal with it, just forgot to mention it here :) )
<lool> But they wanted to experiment in UNR first
<lool> desktop-switcher needs a lot of love
<lool> That's about it
<lool> Ok anything else for UNR anybody?
<lool> NCommander: please moveon
<NCommander> [topc] Specification Overview
<lool> GrueMaster: LSB testing for A6?
<lool> I POSTPONED or DONE-ed a bunch of items in paulliu's resolution spec
<GrueMaster> Done, need to post results.  Will try to do while at conference, if network stays reliable.
<lool> we dropped the testing items in ogra's spec to match marvell's
<ogra> \o/
<lool> lubuntu was covered
<lool> NCommander: usplash on dove?
 * NCommander guesses that's why the burndown chart looks so much happier
<NCommander> lool, no progress. Was beating my head in for a few hours yesterday on why my images didn't install
<lool> NCommander: is there a bug for it?
<NCommander> lool, usplash or the not installing part?
<lool> NCommander: usplash
<lool> NCommander: and installing too actually
<lool> NCommander: I thought A6 was working fine??
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usplash/+bug/423346 - usplash is here
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423346 in usplash "[armel+dove] usplash does not currently work on Marvell Dove Y0 boards" [High,New]
<NCommander> lool, it works fine if you have an internet conneciton
<lool> plars: mobile-qa-karmic-* updates?
<NCommander> lool, my dove board was disconnected from the net when I tried to install -_-;
<plars> lool: I did some more checkbox tests yesterday, and LTP is now integrated into the daily testing
<NCommander> Needless to say, that one threw me through a loop until I figured out why f-k-i abends
<lool> plars: The number of TODOs is still high on them; do we need to POSTPONE some stuff?
<lool> NCommander: So it's not really an issue?
<plars> lool: no, I probably need to review those, I can probably close some of them
<lool> NCommander: it's just uboot-mkimage?
<pitti> hello
<lool> pitti: is there another meeting in 5?
<NCommander> lool, yeah, I'll add a cavet to documentation that you currently need internet access to install the dove images
<pitti> lool: yes, TB
<lool> plars: Ok, please do; thanks a lot
<ogra> pfft, TB
<ogra> we're owning the channel !
<lool> Any other updates on specs?
<lool> Questions?
<ogra> none here
<lool> ian_brasil: Sorry, we're running late and I have another meeting afterwards
<NCommander> What's the answer to life, the universe, and everything?
<ogra> 42
<NCommander> [topic] ABO
<MootBot> New Topic:  ABO
<lool> Well we didn't review armel bugs
<ogra> there are none :P
<lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-armel
<ian_brasil> lool, np
<JamieBennett> Good
<ogra> gah+
<JamieBennett> ;)
<GrueMaster> Except usb-nic on babbage.  Being addressed today in kernel sprint.
<lool> Ok nothing new on the list and they are all more or less assigned
<ogra> oo.o is our main PITA still
<lool> oo.o/mx51 remain the top issues
<ogra> oo.o/mx51 ?
<lool> So NCommander can you please carry on ian's item?
<lool> ogra: the imx51 kernel issues and the oo.o issue
<NCommander> lool, MID status?
<ogra> does it work on dove ?
<ogra> ah
<ogra> i thought you meant oo.o on imx51
<NCommander> lool, np
<lool> ian_brasil: If you like I can comment on your plans directly outside of a meeting
<ian_brasil> lool, that would be great
<lool> ian_brasil: I have meetings the whole of today but could you ping me for instance tomorrow and I'd try to review your plan/comment?
<ian_brasil> lool, ok will do
<lool> Thanks
<lool> AOB/
<ogra> close ...
<lool> AOB?
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:59.
<ogra> before the TB larts us
<NCommander> lool, any other business
<GrueMaster> larts us?
<lool> NCommander: I know what it is
<lool> NCommander: I was asking for it
<kees> pitti, Keybuk: I saw you guys join.  mdz, cjwatson: are you non-afk?
<cjwatson> here
<kees> that's 4 of 6, should we start or wait a bit?
<Keybuk> 5 of 6?
<cjwatson> are mdz and sabdfl both at LinuxCon?
<Keybuk> oh, you're counting sabdfl ;)
<Keybuk> sabdfl is not here yet
<kees> as are I and Keybuk
<cjwatson> I understood that we weren't expecting mdz, from the fact that randa asked me if we were going to reschedule
<Keybuk> cjwatson: LinuxCon is in kees's home town
<cjwatson> Keybuk: yeah, I know
<Keybuk> it seems a bit rude to ask kees to turn up to the TB meeting at this time if we're not willing to get out of bed a little earlier when we're in his timezone
<kees> heh.
<cjwatson> and I applaud your politeness in turning up :)
<cjwatson> nevertheless, we probably shouldn't wait for mdz or sabdfl
<kees> ok
<Keybuk> indeed
<kees> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:04. The chair is kees.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<kees> [TOPIC] review actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  review actions from last meeting
<kees> cjwatson: you had an item for contacting Bdale?
<cjwatson> I was a veritable action-storm this morning
<kees> hehe
<cjwatson> he's subscribed to the list now, and invited to the meeting (although it was short notice), and I made another sort of prod at restarting the conversation
<Keybuk> bdale is at LinuxCon too <g>
<cjwatson> do grab him at some point then :)
<Keybuk> I was going to
<kees> (does that count as an action...?)
<cjwatson> ahahahaHAAA
<kees> pitti: saw your edits to SRU wiki
<pitti> kees: yep, that's done
<Keybuk> kees: I think if bdale is on the list and has a meeting invite, cjwatson is done on this item
<kees> I talked to doko about sun-java6, and then got more feedback, but we'll get to that.
<kees> Keybuk: right, I meant your snagging Bdale.  :)
<cjwatson> I so misread that
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I really don't like beards
<Keybuk> kees: sure, note it down so it's in the minutes
<kees> [ACTION] Keybuk to find Bdale at LinuxCon
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Keybuk to find Bdale at LinuxCon
<kees> cjwatson: what's happened with the DMB?
<cjwatson> dholbach beat me to most of the web editing
<cjwatson> I was going to do the last bit (announcements), but then ran across the controversy about the DMB process in my mailbox
<cjwatson> so I replied to that and would prefer to hold off on announcements until we have basic agreement there
<kees> the doc updates were actually jono's item, so perhaps he delegated?
<cjwatson> I think we maybe both got them or something
<cjwatson> but anywya
<cjwatson> dholbach evidently feels very strongly about preserving something similar to the current MC process
<kees> [ACTION] TB to further discuss DMB and come to resolution on next steps for Agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  TB to further discuss DMB and come to resolution on next steps for Agenda
<cjwatson> the only thing I feel strongly about is providing the opportunity for private feedback where it's needed
<cjwatson> so I suspect there is room for compromise here
 * kees nods
<cjwatson> assuming that I'm not way out of line with the rest of the board
<Keybuk> indeed, there doesn't seem to be anything terminal about the discussions
<dholbach> cjwatson: as I said: I really don't mind if the DMB or other Boards/Councils adapt the process a bit to their own needs, but to me it's not clear which problems we're trying to fix and what we sacrifice along the way
<cjwatson> shall we discuss that today after we've got through the rest of the agenda?
<cjwatson> try to, anyway
<Keybuk> sure
<dholbach> sure
<kees> and the last actions to review were archive reorg items from the last meeting for cjwatson (you really were an action-storm)  :)
<pitti> yep
<cjwatson> I didn't get through all the teams, but I kicked things off with a couple of them
<cjwatson> we have agenda items later, and there's an open mail thread about Kubuntu
<kees> ok, we'll re-cover ArchReorg in a bit..
<kees> any actions from last time I missed?
<kees> [TOPIC] Removal of sun-java6
<MootBot> New Topic:  Removal of sun-java6
<kees> so, based on feedback, I'd like to drop this suggestion.
<pitti> this currently still seems to be in ongoing discussion
<cjwatson> kees: agreed based on mails - it seems too early, unfortunately
<cjwatson> however
<pitti> it wasn't clear to me how much the partner archve team depends on that..
<kees> agreed, though I was easily able to disprove a number of claims.
<pitti> but could we perhpas move it to the partner archive then?
<doko> pitti: well, then lets move it to partner to make this clear
<cjwatson> it might be a good idea to make a public announcement of some kind (if there hasn't been one already?) to the effect that we intend to drop Sun Java, and that people should move forthwith
<cjwatson> I'm not clear on how well it would be maintained in partner
<kees> I think Canonical needs to declare it either partner or restricted.  As restricted is for drivers only, I would push for partner.
<pitti> kees: well, I'm not so worried about it being in multiverse
<pitti> rather that we never officially supported it and don't provide timely security updates, etc.
<doko> cjwatson: that's up to partner
<kees> pitti: but the concerns of supportability are quite real
<pitti> and yet it seems to be a crucial dependencies of Canonical's commercial offerings
<cjwatson> doko: sure, but nevertheless I feel some responsibility to the organisation as a whole
<cjwatson> dumping it on partner if they don't in practice have the skill to maintain it is not actually going to be an improvement
<doko> agreed, but we don't dedicate the resource from the distribution team for it
<kees> is the location of sun-java6 out of scope for TB?
<pitti> parner isn't bound by our strict SRU rules, so it creates less paperwork to update the version there; that doesn't drop the need to be able to run the TCK on it, of course
<cjwatson> kees: I think it's in scope, although it may be a bikeshed :)
 * kees nods
<doko> pitti: we never did run the TCK on sun-java6
<pitti> well, if we as Canonical determine to spend platform team time on it, then it can equally be maintained in partner
<pitti> conversely, just keeping it in multiverse isn't going to help the parner archive if nobody actually maintains it
<cjwatson> pitti: it can, but what does it buy us - we could just as well basically waive all the SRU rules
<pitti> cjwatson: *nod*
<cjwatson> the only real difference is a kind of abrogation of responsibility, but as I said I'm not convinced that that will actually turn out to be a net win
<pitti> the main question here is indeed who's going to maintian it; the compoent/archive is just secondary
<kees> we did waive most of the SRU rules for it already for Hardy
<cjwatson> we might just find that we get into an enormous spat with corp services that would chew up more time than just keeping it updated :)
<pitti> OTOH for hardy we already lose; we can't remove sun-java5 from the hardy archive
<pitti> I'm not sure whether we could if it was in parner (but it woudln't make too much sense to do so, granted)
<cjwatson> we could, in principle
<cjwatson> but only if nothing were using it ...
<kees> let's move this to email?
<kees> does anyone want to volunteer to drive the discuss there?
<pitti> we already have a thread for it, and need in put from corp services anyway, so yes
<kees> [ACTION] kees to drive sun-java6 email thread and get resolution on responsibility
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kees to drive sun-java6 email thread and get resolution on responsibility
<kees> [TOPIC] Developer application board
<MootBot> New Topic:  Developer application board
<kees> Keybuk: anything left on this?
<Keybuk> agreeing on the process
<Keybuk> and using the board
<kees> oh wait, this is DMB
 * kees got tricked by the name change
<Keybuk> ;)
<kees> so, what should we do here?  there's an active email thread?
<dholbach> if you want, we can discuss this via email and do the units policy first - I think the DMB process would benefit from the input from all TB members
<kees> s/?$/./
<dholbach> and I'd appreciate all your thoughts
<Keybuk> for me, the two points I'd like to retain on the policy are
<Keybuk> - ability to give private feedback to applicants
<cjwatson> my proposal (which I think I intended as a compromise proposal) on the list was to use the MC process but with a facility for private comments, and making it clear that people can elect to have their app processed purely by mail if they aren't comfortable otherwise
<cjwatson> but to default to the most transparent format
<Keybuk> - I don't like applicants having to turn up at a fixed slot IRC meeting and compete for time with each other
<cjwatson> re meeting times
<cjwatson> I'd say that since the DMB is doing nothing else but process applications, its meetings should be scheduled for convenience to applicants where it's possible (obv. still within sane times for the board)
<cjwatson> rather than being fixed-time-every-two-weeks
<kees> cjwatson: your proposal seems about where I was headed, yes.  Keybuk: noted, though perhaps restating it in email would help?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I'm worried that approach is doomed to failure to the difficulty of scheduling a meeting with so many different people
<kees> I'd like to get an action for the DMB topic... who would be willing to drive the thread to conclusion?
<dholbach> I think it'd help if we there was some explanation what needs changing from the current UbuntuDevelopers processes and why
<pitti> just to make sure, this meeting is a public one, so it's totally orthogonal to the "private feedback" issue, right?
<dholbach> to me it feels like that's the best basis to drive this forward quickly
<cjwatson> dholbach: surely we have gone over that at great length in previous threads
 * cody-somerville wonders when the TB is going to invite him to a meeting to proceed with his application.
<cjwatson> Keybuk: maybe not quite as far as I suggested, but perhaps have several available meeting slots that people could choose between
<cjwatson> which wouldn't necessarily get you the whole board, but at least a quorum
<kees> cjwatson: would you be willing to drive the email thread, since you've proposed the most recent compromise?
<cjwatson> kees: yes, I guess so
<kees> [ACTION] cjwatson to drive DMB email thread to conclusion
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to drive DMB email thread to conclusion
<Keybuk> if we reduced the DMB quorum it might work
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: I'm sorry we suck, and it's because we're trying to sort out this process transition - the first thing to do after we're agreed on this is to deal with the backlog
<kees> [TOPIC] Discuss UnitsPolicy
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss UnitsPolicy
<pitti> I like the proposal a lot
<Keybuk> is benjamin here?
<bdrung_> yes
<Keybuk> hey
<kees> so, feedback on this showed (as before) disagreements about disk space representation?
<pitti> however, we shouldn't immediatley turn it into RC bugs, but use it as a reference when filing bugs and forwarding to upstream, etc.
<pitti> but bringing some consistency to at least desktop apps is in order indeed
<Keybuk> kees: I think the current consensus is that the policy as bdrung_ is largely correct, except that we would rather that the default unit for file sizes be base 10
<Keybuk> pitti: definitely agree
<pitti> i. e. nautilus gets it completely wrong
<pitti> "687,3 MB" for a CD-ROM image, and so on
<kees> Keybuk: ok, but that base2 vs base10 for file sizes seems to be the core issue (even from long ago discussions of this)
<bdrung_> Keybuk: the default is base-10, where de you read something else?
<cjwatson> I'm willing to abstain on the file size question. I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with it because I do predict some confusion
<kees> the focus for the proposal is desktop UI only?
<pitti> I actually have a pretty strong opinion about it
<bdrung_> kees: no
<Keybuk> I think there's confusion either way with this
<pitti> file sizes and disk sizes should have the same base
<pitti> I don't want to explain someone why 1000 1 MB files don't fit on a 1 GB stick
<cjwatson> Keybuk: I agree, that's why I'm inclined to abstain rather than -1
<Keybuk> bdrung_: well, other than the fact that the traditional unix tools can't be modified without breaking apps that parse their output
<cjwatson> unfortunately file sizes interact with memory too, which is why it gets confusing
<kees> Keybuk: that is my concern as well.
<cjwatson> but there really isn't much we can do, we lose either way
<bdrung_> Keybuk: look at the exception
<cjwatson> my main concern is that if desktop UI is *inconsistent* about describing file sizes (I don't mean inconsistent about file vs. disk) then it will be awful
<cjwatson> so I wouldn't want us to be swimming against the tide here
<pitti> it is already
<pitti> e. g. gnome-disk-utility uses (proper) GB and GiB for sizes
<Keybuk> right, there's already massive inconsistency here
<pitti> whereas nautilus uses base-2 GB
<Keybuk> and I don't think that inventing a solution that creates a new unit is helping either
<cjwatson> new unit> *shudder*
<Keybuk> nobody, except the clipboard-carrying, adenoid-affected, pedantic crazies know what a kibibyte is
<Keybuk> or why one matters
<Keybuk> it sounds like we've reached a consensus on this
<pitti> so for the policy, there are currently only two options for file sizes
<pitti> (show both, or provide option)
<Keybuk> I'll take an action to fix up bdrung_'s draft and mail to the TB for approval
<cjwatson> bdale: welcome
<pitti> but I think there are cases where we can/should display only one
<kees> [ACTION] Keybuk to finalize unit policy and email to TB
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Keybuk to finalize unit policy and email to TB
<pitti> and I think for those cases we should display only base-10
<bdrung_> pitti: i agree
<bdale> cjwatson: thanks.  in Portland at LinuxCon, just woke up and saw your email.  thought I'd at least lurk until dragged off to breakfast, will put mtg on my calendar starting next week
<cjwatson> good stuff. it's every two weeks FWIW
<bdale> even better.  thanks.
<cjwatson> I gather the TB members who are in Portland intend to drag you off for beer or something at some point :)
<kees> bdrung_: how does this all sound to you?
 * bdale shrugs ... I'd be unlikely to resist.  ;-)
<bdrung_> kees: sounds good
<kees> [TOPIC] community bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  community bugs
<kees> none waiting...
<kees> [TOPIC] select a chair for next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  select a chair for next meeting
 * pitti volunteers
<cjwatson> did we skip the archivereorg bits?
<pitti> got to learn it, after all
<pitti> cjwatson: was just going to ask after the chair thing
<kees> cjwatson: oh, er, we did, sorry.
<kees> [TOPIC] archive reorg
<MootBot> New Topic:  archive reorg
<cjwatson> so I put two subtopics on, but dholbach raised a concern first that applies to both
<cjwatson> basically, do we want to enforce that teams to which we delegate the right to grant upload authority use something like the standard developer process
<kees> how could we enforce that?
<cjwatson> well, by not delegating unless they promise to do so :)
<cjwatson> I think dholbach is concerned that membership processes should be consistent across the project
<kees> heh, well, that's not enforcement, but it is a requirement/agreement.
<dholbach> I think we should have similar expectations of Councils and Boards that approve developers
<cjwatson> personally I think it's more important for developer teams to be able to operate efficiently, as long as we're confident that they're checking the basics
<kees> I think having a minimal process is good.  some teams may have additional requirements above & beyond.
<cjwatson> in other words, I think the standard elements should be what is required of the applicants, not the process
<Keybuk> on the other hand, a relatively standard process reducing the overwhelming confusion of applying
<cjwatson> since most people go through the process at most a handful of times
<cjwatson> it's not as if they'll get used to it :)
<pitti> right, e. g. until now, we granted ubuntu-desktop membership without a formal process; it was so far an act of mutual agreement, and considering someone "trusted and ready"
<Keybuk> if you don't know whether you need to write a wiki page, write an e-mail, talk to someone on IRC, or master a secret handshake and go to a LUG meeting...
<cjwatson> pitti: and actually, I sort of think that's healthy and much more like how other projects work
<pitti> but so far, people didn't "apply"; we invited them once they had done good work for a while
<kees> I don't think it should be invite-only; that can be rather off-putting.
<pitti> that's for example why I never write something into the "needs improvement" section of an advocacy
<Keybuk> pitti: I don't think that's a problem
<cjwatson> I'm not out to burn all process here; but I wonder, take mythbuntu for example
<pitti> I don't advocate if I had something serious to write in it
<Keybuk> but people should be able to apply to join ubuntu-desktop, and if they do, it should be a relatively standard process
<dholbach> I think there's a lot of middle ground for transparency, minimal process, consistency, regularity, clarity, efficiency and "being ready"
<cjwatson> last week, we seemed to have some kind of agreement to delegate to mythbuntu-dev, owned by superm1
<cjwatson> do we expect Mario to hold meetings by himself? :)
<pitti> kees: invite-only> I don't say that we should, just saying that this has been existing practice for -desktop so far
<Keybuk> but I don't think we need to say that boards have to follow that process for all members
<Keybuk> boards should have the freedom to elect their own membership directly
<cjwatson> right, I definitely think the application process should be standard
<pitti> but there should certainly be some minimal requirements
<cjwatson> ish
<pitti> like, being an ubuntu member at least
<kees> pitti: certainly; yes.  I would say invite-style tends to result in the strongest results.
<cjwatson> pitti: (historically, being granted developer access is in itself automatic membership)
<Keybuk> pitti: quite the opposite, being approved into ubuntu-dev *confers* membership
<pitti> well, I meant
<Daviey> cjwatson: superm1 is confident that he can entrust a number of people in mythbuntu-dev soon.
<pitti> having signed the CoC, at least
<kees> pitti: yes, CoC seems an absolute minimum.
<cjwatson> Daviey: yes, that doesn't mean we'd be entrusting all those people with administration of that team though
<cjwatson> which is what I'm talking about here
<Keybuk> administration is orthogonal to membership isn't it?
<cjwatson> administration of an upload team is the ability to grant upload access
<Daviey> cjwatson: Surely the honcho can be delegated responsibility with adding and removing people, or should that always be via the TB?
<cjwatson> Daviey: we're talking at cross-purposes
<Keybuk> cjwatson: yes, but that's a TB decision no?
<dholbach> plus you want to know that they know what they're doing technically (obvious), know how to work with the team and how Ubuntu processes in general work (important overtime) - I know that that list of requirements is hand-wavy, but it's the things the MC were after up until now
<Daviey> oh, apologise.
<cjwatson> ok, wait
<Keybuk> the topic is the process that the teams should follow for approving developers
<Keybuk> not administrators
<cjwatson> let me explain please
<cjwatson> last week, we were talking about mythbuntu. *at the moment* superm1 is the only person likely to be an administrator of its dev team
<Daviey> yes.
<cjwatson> and there was a little exchange between myself and Keybuk where we seemed to agree that we ought to delegate upload access to that dev team
<cjwatson> now, *right now*, that would mean that superm1 would have the ability to grant upload access for mythbuntu packages
<cjwatson> and I'm saying that it's more than a little bizarre to require him to hold little IRC meetings in order to do so
<cjwatson> or at least it feels thus to me
<Keybuk> right, I'm entirely agreeing
<cjwatson> indeed it is a TB decision whether to delegate
<Keybuk> but I do think it's ok that if somebody wants to apply to superm1 for upload access, they should follow a standard pattern
<Daviey> hmm.. wouldn't that meeting be well held between a contrib team and the core/dev team?
<Keybuk> (write a wiki page, e-mail an address)
<Daviey> so in this case, ~mythbuntu and ~mythbuntu-dev ?
<Keybuk> but what superm1 does after that should be flexible
<cjwatson> Daviey: all of motu don't normally turn up when people are applying to be core-devs :)
<Keybuk> I also think that if superm1 wants to, as a team admin, invite people himself - the application process doesn't apply
<cjwatson> it's usually the board responsible for approving, plus the applicant
<cjwatson> Keybuk: I think we're entirely in agreement
<Daviey> The TB is entrusting superm1's judgment.. which is good IMO.
<kees> so which things are we trying to decide here?  that we can delegate admins, that devs should follow a minimal process, or both?
<Keybuk> for example, one team might just do things by e-mail
<Keybuk> another team might use IRC meetings
<Keybuk> and another team might actually say you have to turn up to the team's usual weekly meeting and be interviewed by the entire team
<Keybuk> these are all quite valid to me as approval processes
<Keybuk> but the approval process should be up to the team
<Keybuk> whereas the application process should be standardish
<Keybuk> or, at least, there should be a standard application process that all teams should honour
<Keybuk> at the very least, it makes the documentation easier ;)
<cjwatson> kees: Daniel expressed to me a concern that team admins should follow a standard transparent process when dealing with applications (I hope I'm not misrepresenting him here), and I wanted to bring that up here
<Daviey> In the case of ~mythbuntu, it is quite a small/close team that talk daily via IRC.. I would find it *odd* if someone wanted to apply to ~mythbuntu-dev, if they weren't already known by ~mythbuntu
<cjwatson> *personally*, I agree with Keybuk that it's more important for the start of the process (how you apply) to be standard
<kees> cjwatson: ok.  sounds like we agree about this, should we vote specifically on that?
<pitti> IMHO at least the confirmation from an admin should be in email on a public list, to have a permanent record of who was added where (and avoid errors in LP team management)
<kees> oh wait, "dealing" is the issue?
<kees> Keybuk: you'd like to split it into "application" (standard) and approval (up to the admin)
<cjwatson> because once you're in the application process, it's normal for you to be guided through it somehow, told what to do next or whatever
<pitti> Daviey: for your team, invitation-style will probably work best
<Keybuk> kees: yes
<cjwatson> pitti: agreed
<Keybuk> kees: different teams will find different approval methods work best for them
<cjwatson> and preferably a link in some form to where it was discussed, if available
<Daviey> pitti: yeah.. but what i'm saying is a standarish application process wouldn't work that well, in that example, in my opinion.
<pitti> Daviey: true
<Keybuk> forcing a method intended for a Very Large Team like ubuntu-core-dev/motu onto the smallest teams does not seem to be appropriate to me
<pitti> so what about
<kees> (5 minutes remaining)
<pitti> team pages like https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop should point out the application/approval process
<pitti> and that ^ gets approved by teh TB/DMB?
<kees> pitti: each process gets approved?
<Keybuk> that doesn't allow flexible process
<pitti> kees: well, it's only two handful?
<Daviey> For small teams, the designated honcho could trigger all the invitations, if people don't feel that person is doing a good job, could raise the issue to the TB?
<Keybuk> and I think that's too much paperwork
<pitti> Keybuk: why not?
<cjwatson> I'd like to hear dholbach's opinion on the above discussion before we go to a vote
<Keybuk> I think it's better that we simply say that if anyone's unhappy with their application to a team, they can always go to the TB
<Keybuk> and we can investigate
<kees> given we have 4 minutes, should we move this to email?  Keybuk to drive it?
<pitti> Keybuk: if e. g. superm1 says "by invitation or you mail to mythbuntu@ for applying", that could be blessed by DMB
<Keybuk> pitti: TB not DMB :)
<cjwatson> if we can vote by mail on the two teams I put on the agenda for today, I'm fine with moving to mail
<pitti> right, sorry
<pitti> anyway, I'm fine with trusting the team admins as well for the app process
<Keybuk> I'm happy to vote now
<cjwatson> dholbach: ^?
<Keybuk> but we haven't heard from dholbach yet
<pitti> but that seemed to make dholbach unhappy
<pitti> my personal main concern is to have a permanent documentation about approvals
<pitti> not so much about the app process, since I believe that will sort out itself
<dholbach> sorry, I was busy chasing up two other things in the meantime, reading up
<kees> cjwatson: so, what is the vote, then?  that ubuntu-desktop gets upload rights?
<pitti> someone who wants to apply to -desktop or mythbunty, but never speaks to the existing members won't have a big chance of getting approved anyway
<james_w> I would appreciate at least an announcement when people are added to the various teams, notifying TB/DMB/ubuntu-devel or something
<cjwatson> yeah, the entire point of those teams is that they work together, which is a criterion that (these days) just doesn't apply to the big teams in general
<cjwatson> james_w: agreed
<cjwatson> or at least doesn't apply nearly as consistency
<cjwatson> consistently
<Keybuk> james_w: agreed
<Keybuk> (and the same should apply to the DMB as a delegated team :p)
<kees> [ACTION] cjwatson to drive vote on Archive Reorg rights for ubuntu-desktop and mythbuntu in email
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to drive vote on Archive Reorg rights for ubuntu-desktop and mythbuntu in email
<kees> we're out of time...
<cjwatson> ok, so it goes
<kees> sorry to rush it, but we've got a team for this slot
<kees> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:01.
<dholbach> sorry :(
 * ttx didn't say anything :)
<james_w> dholbach: should we still be pushing for the DMB to use the process that the MC drafted, given that the MC had to change their process in order to approve the last set of applicants?
<ttx> OK, Server team meeting, now
<james_w> oops, sorry, let's go -> #-devel
<dholbach> james_w: yeah, in a sec
<ttx> who is here for the server team meeting ?
<nurmi_> o/
<erichammond> o/
<alexm> o/
<Daviey> \o
<nealmcb> o/
<tarvid1> o/ whatever that means
<zul> heylo
<sommer> o//
<soren> o/
<ttx> ok, let's start and try to fit the hour
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<nijaba> o/
<ttx> ACTION: soren to add manifest files to UEC images build system for alpha6
<soren> Done.
<ttx> ACTION: Daviey to update Asterisk 1.6 to RC1
<Daviey> In bzr and PPA, need sponsorhsip
<Daviey> that is RC2 now :)
<ttx> bug # ?
<Daviey> ttx: sponsorship via prodding
<ttx> Daviey: ok.
<ttx> [ACTION] Daviey to get his Asterisk 1.6RC2 update sponsored
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to get his Asterisk 1.6RC2 update sponsored
<Daviey> (it's also NOW free sofware FWIW) :)
<ttx> ACTION: soren to publish ec2-version-query in a more appropriate place
<soren> Uh.. I'm not completely sure, actually.
<soren> smoser: Do you know anything about this?
<smoser> i'm not aware of it being published in a different place, nor the status that.
 * soren makes a note to prod someone about it.
<ttx> [ACTION] soren to clear out status for ec2-version-query publication
<MootBot> ACTION received:  soren to clear out status for ec2-version-query publication
<soren> but?
<soren> Oh, that's a new action :)
<ttx> I suppose "ACTION: soren to automate updating of ec2-version-query" is in the same status ?
<soren> I thought that was another action item from last meeting :)
<soren> They're very, very closely related, yes.
<ttx> ACTION: zul to ensure rabbitmq-server gets reviewed and promoted
<zul> done
<ttx> ACTION: soren to sponsor the patch for bug 420581 and update his vmbuilder on nectarine
<ubottu> Bug 420581 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/420581 is private
<soren> done.
<soren> smoser: Please correct me if I'm wrong.
<ttx> kirkland: around ?
<ttx> I suppose not, I'll postpone hs actionsreview until next meeting
<smoser> 420581 is fix released and verified in alpha6
<soren> smoser: Thanks.
<ttx> [ACTION] kirkland to open discussion on how to best solve the remaining configuration options on Moodle appliance
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to open discussion on how to best solve the remaining configuration options on Moodle appliance
<ttx> [ACTION] kirkland to get help from soren and smoser on proper UEC-compatible image generation
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to get help from soren and smoser on proper UEC-compatible image generation
<ttx> [ACTION] kirkland to discuss with niemeyer and nurmi about ImageStore integration testing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to discuss with niemeyer and nurmi about ImageStore integration testing
<ttx> ACTION: ivoks to file FFe for the redhat-cluster update
<ttx> bug 429834
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429834 in redhat-cluster "FFE: Please sync redhat-cluster 3.0.2-2ubuntu1 (main) from PPA" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429834
<ttx> Hm, is syncing from PPA a common practice ? i.e. should ivoks subscribe ubuntu-archive to that bug ?
 * soren wonders why pitti approved it, but didn't sync it.
 * soren asks pitti
<mdz> ttx, FYI I'm here, but not caught up enough to know what's going on, so mostly lurking :-)
<ttx> mdz: ok :)
<ttx> ok, let's continue in the meantime
<ttx> [TOPIC] Alpha6 postmortem analysis
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha6 postmortem analysis
 * mathiaz waves
<ttx> So last week was Alpha6 release, as you may already know
<ttx> This went globally better than alpha5 but there are still things to cover for the beta release
<ttx> * Define seeds for vmbuilder to use (soren)
<ttx> soren: any status update on that ?
<soren> I believe that's in cjwatson's court at the moment.
<mdz> soren, you've provided the package list?
<soren> mdz: No, I can make the seed myself. I've just asked cjwatson's advice as to where to put it. It's not completely transparent to me with the way it's split up now.
<ttx> ok.
<ttx> * MIR all non-main packages used in images (smoser)
<smoser> working on it.
<smoser>      ec2-init         434693 : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionEc2-Init
<smoser>      euca2ools        434697 : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionEuca2ools
<smoser>      python-boto      434701 : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionPython-Boto
<smoser>      python-cheetah   xxxxxx : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionCheetah
<smoser>      python-configobj xxxxxx : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionConfigobj
<smoser>      python-m2crypto  xxxxxx : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionM2crypto
<soren> mdz: kubuntu, for instance, is a separate branch. Is EC2 enough of a different product to also warrant a separate branch?
<soren> mdz: That sort of thing.
<ttx> smoser: is euca2ools part of it ?
<ttx> ok
<smoser> yes.
<ttx> About euca2ools, a question for nurmi_ :
<soren> IÍ'm reasonably sure we can get rid of configobj.
<nurmi_> ttx: shoot
<ttx> nurmi_: you advised us to package the latest. Does it fix the 403 Forbidden TZ-related issue ?
<ttx> bug 431847
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431847 in eucalyptus "Registering images gives 403 Forbidden" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431847
<nurmi_> ttx: it certainly solves the 403 authentication failue with 'run-instances' and 'authorize/revoke'.  The timezone issue, I'll have to investigate further (having trouble reproducing it)
<cjwatson> soren: hmm, OK, I think I sort of missed that that was in my court; I'll deal with that
<cjwatson> or tell you how to anyway
<ttx> nurmi_: so it solves bug 430093 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430093 in eucalyptus "Eucalyptus "403 Forbidden" when trying to run instance" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430093
<nurmi_> ttx: correct
<ttx> ok, so we need to package that, at least
<soren> cjwatson: Cool, thanks.
<ttx> soren: do you agree on that ?
<soren> ttx: Do you? :) You tested it, and said it didn't work. Or has it been fixed since then?
<ttx> soren: it fixes a separate issue.
<soren> Ok, then.
<soren> Well, then yes.
<soren> Let's get the latest crack :)
<ttx> fixes bug 430093, not bug 431847
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430093 in eucalyptus "Eucalyptus "403 Forbidden" when trying to run instance" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430093
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431847 in eucalyptus "Registering images gives 403 Forbidden" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431847
<ttx> [ACTION] soren to update to latest euca2ools
<MootBot> ACTION received:  soren to update to latest euca2ools
<ttx> * Publish ec2-version-query in a appropriate place -- we already talked about that one
<ttx> * Automate image publishing (smoser)
<soren> Right.
<mdz> ttx, speaking of euca2ools, I'm a bit concerned that I've heard the command line syntax is not compatible with the EC2 tools
<ttx> smoser: How does beta release come up wrt this goal ?
<smoser> not there yet.  I actually haven't heard anything back on the ticket.
<ttx> smoser: ping them harder
<smoser> i think that there are several things on my plate higher than this (mainly fixing bugs for that beta release).
<smoser> the publishing is painful, but doable manually
<nurmi_> mdz: in the newest package, this has also been addressed
<mdz> nurmi_, oh, excellent
<nurmi_> mdz: there may be a few remaining inconsistencies, but the major ones were taken care of (i'll look into it and report)
<soren> nurmi_: Oh.
<soren> nurmi_: So it changed its own cli interface?
<ttx> * Add build toolchain version numbers to manifests (soren)
<mdz> nurmi_, is it worth exploring providing ec2-* pathnames so that users can use the familiar commands (and copy/paste examples)?
<soren> ttx: Err... Toolchain versions... in the manifest? That would be wrong, wouldn't it?
<ttx> soren: manifests were also supposed to contain version numbers for the tools used to generate the images. Last time I looked, there were only package version numbers from inside the image
<soren> I mean... The manifest should list what's in the image, not what was used to build it.
<soren> Oh.
<ttx> soren: that was mdz's original request for the manifest
<mdz> soren, both are useful
<nurmi_> soren: the goal was to be commandline compatible, we consider inconsistencies to be incorrect behavior (had some conflicts with python getopt, originally)
<soren> I'm slightly surprised by this. We do have that information inside the image, though.
<mdz> I realize we don't do this for the CD images at present
<soren> mdz: Ahah. Ok, that's what I thought.
<mdz> but there seems to be a much closer relationship in the case of the UEC images
<mdz> or at least they're changing more frequently
<soren> mdz: You'd put it in the same manifest?
<nurmi_> mdz: perhaps, although the output of the two tools can sometimes be different (errors in particular, since the tools are written in different languages)
<mdz> soren, if bugs in the images are often resolved by changing the build tools, we should include those IMO
<mdz> soren, whether it's the same file, or a separate file, or whatever, doesn't matter to me
<mdz> so long as it's possible to figure out what was used
<soren> mdz: Ok. So the entire dependency chain of VMBuilder? Everything from VMbuilder itself down to libc?
<soren> Or just the VMBuilder revno?
<mdz> soren, no, just vmbuilder
<soren> Ok.
<ttx> [ACTION] soren to add image-generation-toolchain version numbers to manifests
<MootBot> ACTION received:  soren to add image-generation-toolchain version numbers to manifests
<mdz> soren, this is based on my understanding that vmbuilder does more than just aggregate packages
<smoser> soren, probably automated-ec2-builds also
<mdz> soren, the vmbuilder command line seems relevant as well
<soren> mdz: Right.
<smoser> mdz, cmdline is included in the 'automated-ec2-builds' that i mentioned above.
 * soren will come up with something.
<ttx> Any other comment on Alpha6 ?
<soren> Are people expecting the manifest to be machine parsable?
<mdz> how did the kernel turn out?
<smoser> kernel is so far very good. the only issue that I have heard anything about is the lack of modules.
<mdz> smoser, why are we missing modules?
<smoser> bug 428692 .
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428692 in ubuntu "ec2 kernel needs CONFIG_BLK_DEV_LOOP=y and other config changes" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428692
<ttx> [TOPIC] Roadmap review: UEC/EC2 images bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap review: UEC/EC2 images bugs
<ttx> since we are on them :)
<mdz> smoser, oh, you mean missing config options (not that the modules are missing from the images)?
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ec2-images
<smoser> and bug 429169.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429169 in vm-builder "ec2: Include kernel modules in AMIs" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429169
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=uec-images
<smoser> the missing modules from the image is the second one there.  and i just tagged that as target beta. requires vmbuilder changes to get the image inside.
<nurmi_> is there going to be a condoned kernel for use with the UEC image on UEC?
<smoser> nurmi_, bug 429106
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429106 in vm-builder "kernel and initramfs should be available for uec" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429106
<ttx> smoser: how is this one going ?
<ttx> It would sure help the process of using those images.
<mdz> forgive my ignorance, but is it necessary to provide the kernel and initramfs separately when we're using KVM?
<nurmi_> mdz: in eucalyptus, yes, since part of the EC2 semantic allows users to select a kernel/ramdisk at instance run time
<mdz> smoser, why does it require vmbuilder changes? it seems like it should just be a matter of installing the appropriate kernel package inside the image
<mdz> nurmi_, and that's implemented even for kvm instances?
<smoser> i've not started looking at it.  it is in general fairly trivial .some changes to vmbuilder to install the latest linux-image inside and then to copy it out and re-build the initrd after modifying /etc/initramdisk/modules (initrd should have acpiphp in it)
<nurmi_> mdz: nod, we specify the kernel/ramdisk external to the image (which KVM allows)
<mdz> neat
<smoser> mdz, well, given the seeds discussion, the way vmbuilder getsa list of things to include in the image requires code change to change.
<soren> It really doesn't have to. We should move the package list out of VMBuilder.
<soren> ...and pass it on the command line.
<mdz> smoser, ah, I see. hopefully that will be fixed soon
<ttx> smoser: ok, anything blocking you on those bugs ? or anything targeted for beta that will not be doable ?
<smoser> the thing blocking them is the MIRs that i posted above (just me working on them). I presumed that MIR were absolute highest priority. anyone refute that ?
<smoser> i do not expect that there is anything targeted for beta that shouldn't make it. i'll go through the list today.
<mdz> smoser, the MIRs are absolutely essential, but functional bugs may be higher priority
<mdz> can someone else help with the MIRs to free smoser to work on functional bugs?
<zul> i can do it
<smoser> mdz, they're almost done. at least almost all "mostly filled out and bugs submitted"
<ttx> [ACTION] zul to follow up on the UEC/EC2 packages MIR status
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to follow up on the UEC/EC2 packages MIR status
<smoser> i've got 2 more bugs to file then we'll have the set. and I would absolutely appreciate zul improving the MIR
<ttx> smoser: the MIR team might ask some things to be fixed before accepting them
<smoser> i expect that.
<ttx> smoser: so it's good if someone else can keep an eye on them.
<smoser> yeah.
<ttx> ok, anything else on the EC2/UEC image front ?
<ttx> [TOPIC] Roadmap review: Packaging and integration of Eucalyptus 1.6
<erichammond> It sounded like euca2ools had been settled on instead of Amazon's ec2-ami-tools.  Is this still planned?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap review: Packaging and integration of Eucalyptus 1.6
<ttx> erichammond: yes. It's necessary so that we only ship main packages in the images
<smoser> erichammond, given the interest in all packages being in main, ew dont have an option.
<Daviey> Isn't euca2ools incompatiable with pre 1.6?  If so, someone on karmic can't use it with jaunty Eucalyptus?
<ttx> Daviey: that doesn't prevent you from using ec2-ami-tools
<ttx> its just not installed by default
<Daviey> ok, cool.
<nurmi_> Daviey: euca2ools is compatible with eucalyptus >= 1.5.2
<ttx> inside images.
<smoser> and ec2-ami-tools and ec2-api-tools will remain in multiverse. a simple apt-get away.
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=eucalyptus
<ttx> so I did some usability testing on the Cluster install side
<ttx> apart from already filed bugs, autoregister of services is in pretty bad shape
<mdz> erichammond, any concerns with that? it's important that our image is "pure" Ubuntu
<ttx> We used to register things from initscripts with "localhost" but that's now impossible
<ttx> bug 434593
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434593 in eucalyptus "Autoregister runs euca_conf with "localhost" but that is refused in 1.6~bzr808" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434593
<erichammond> mdz: I was just wondering if there is a bug entered for this task.  I didn't see one.
<ttx> nurmi_: we supposed it's because we should never have done that i nthe first place ?
<ttx> The issue is, we don't really know the external address we should use for registering.
<mdz> smoser, is there a bug open for the fact that the images include unsupported packages?
<nurmi_> ttx: that is true - the reason we cannot use 'localhost' to register is that the ip you supply at registration time becomes the URL of the service
<nurmi_> ttx: i.e. S3_URL in your 'eucarc' is constructed using that value
<ttx> nurmi_: I understand
<smoser> mdz, no. i will open one.  is a single bug acceptable or do i need to do one per package?
<ttx> nurmi_: but I fail to see how we can provide autoregistering for the "clc+cc+walrus+sc" setup then
<mdz> smoser, one is sufficient, but please include a list of the problematic packages, and refer to the MIR bugs for each
<ttx> I see no foolproof way to guess that address correctly.
<smoser> mdz, yep. thanks.
<mdz> smoser, or specify if some other action is to be taken (e.g. exchanging ec2-api-tools for euca2ools)
<ttx> [ACTION] smoser to file one bug for the fact that the images include unsupported packages
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smoser to file one bug for the fact that the images include unsupported packages
<nurmi_> ttx: i agree, in the local case.  if thes services are all installed locally, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to ask the question at install time
<nurmi_> ttx: perhaps in the same place during install where the installer asks 'what is your cluster name?'
<nurmi_> ttx: adding 'what is your cluster's user and node facing IP?' here would I believe be sufficient
<ttx> nurmi_: "What will be your cluster external IP ?"
<soren> Internal.
<nurmi_> both :)
<soren> For this?
<ttx> cjwatson: comments ?
<ttx> nurmi_: I also filed bug 434651, since we'll want to do local copy with something that doesn't resolve to localhost
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434651 in eucalyptus "euca_conf should support a --local flag to enforce local key copy" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434651
<nurmi_> soren: the IP you give to '--register-walrus' will appear in eucarc as 'S3_URL', and will be sent to nodes when they need to fetch an image
<mdz> smoser, should we update the starter's guide to use euca2ools rather than ec2-api-tools?
<ttx> nurmi_: but I can fix that on our side, so no hurry
<mdz> (or in addition to)
<soren> nurmi_: Ah, right.
<nurmi_> ttx: great, that is a nice addition, thanks
<ttx> Another subject, BetaFreeze is Thursday
<erichammond> mdz: Once euca2ools is installed in the image by default, so should the package which creates the ec2- symlinks.  Does that package exist yet?  Is there a bug?
<zul> crap..
<smoser> mdz, maybe provide alternate/duplicate info ?  if someone just wants to use an ubuntu server, it is possible that they do not have euca2ools.
<ttx> so we won't blindly sync euclyptus upstream bugfix revisions
<smoser> i nthat case, the ec2-api-tools serve a larger audience.
<cjwatson> ttx: something like that seems OK, although in some cases the machine's IP may be dynamic
<cjwatson> ttx: can we just ask for the hostname instead, as a slight insulation from that?
<ttx> cjwatson: hostname tends to resove to 127.0.1.1, no ?
<smoser> wait, i've missed something "the package that installs the symlinks" . I'm not aware of such a package.
<cjwatson> ttx: that rather depends on the environment
<smoser> and the euca2ools are not 100% compatible with ec2-{api,ami}-tools.  providing symlinks is somewhat suggesting they are.
<mdz> smoser, I suggested earlier that we explore providing alternate pathnames (e.g. symlinks or alternatives) for the euca2ools, so they can be called using the ec2-* names
<ttx> cjwatson: I tried to use hostname, but then autoregister would also fail with bug 434593
<cjwatson> and isn't it better for a name to be part of the public service URL rather than an IP address?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434593 in eucalyptus "Autoregister runs euca_conf with "localhost" but that is refused in 1.6~bzr808" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434593
<mdz> smoser, nurmi_ indicated they were compatible, or at least intended to be with only minor and temporary deviations
<soren> mdz:  I believe we decided not to, because of syntax differences.
<soren> mdz: ...but since that's changed..
<cjwatson> ttx: well, I think it's going to be ugly, but if you feel it's necessary, go for it
<mdz> erichammond, it sounds like we don't have consensus yet that that is a good idea
<ttx> cjwatson: alternative is to drop the idea of autoregistering components. Not sure how acceptable that would be
<erichammond> mdz: Ok, we can discuss outside of the meeting.
<cjwatson> we have to autoregister components, I think
<nurmi_> mdz: there are a few things to consider, aside from commandline arguments
<cjwatson> ttx: we could ask for a hostname but check that it resolves to something outside 127.0.0.0/8
<mdz> ttx, is there a followup action recorded with regard to discussing providing ec2-* command names which call euca2ools?
<smoser> i think if there is intent/support for making them 100% compatible, that would be wonderful.  It does put added development effort on either eucalyptus or ubuntu for maintaining that.
<ttx> mdz: I don't think so.
<nurmi_> mdz,erichammod: failure/fault format, and staying up-to-date with the latest EC2 functionality
<ttx> mdz: should be filed as a bug against euca2ools and tagged uec/ec2-images
<ttx> cjwatson: I'll think again about it and bother you again for guidance :)
<ttx> [ACTION] ttx to file bug about providing ec2-* command names which call euca2ools
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to file bug about providing ec2-* command names which call euca2ools
<ttx> Anything else on the Eucalyptus bugs ?
<ttx> Are all the bugs on the list reasonably assigned and targeted ?
<nurmi_> there is an issue with dynamic block attach/detach that I think might be unassigned
<ttx> nurmi_: I assigned it to kirkland
<mdz> nurmi_, good reasons to consider it, though, such as having example commands and documentation work
<ttx> nurmi_: sounds like a kvm-qemu regression
<ttx> I'll assume no more comments from the crowd, then
<ttx> [TOPIC] Roadmap review: Virtual appliance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap review: Virtual appliance
<nurmi_> mdz: absolutely, I just want to mention those issues as things to consider before an evaluation is done
<ttx> niemeyer and kirkland aren't around afaict
<mdz> nurmi_, agreed
<mdz> nurmi_, or rather, *while* the evaluation is done :-)
<ttx> mdz: I'm slightly concerned about the state of this, as I haven't seen much progress since last week
<mdz> ttx, kirkland is here at linuxcon, is there something I should check with him?
<ttx> mdz: definitely. See my status email from end of last week and his activity report
<nijaba> niemeyer is in vacation for the week
<mdz> ttx, ok, I'll take an action
<ttx> [ACTION] mdz to sync with kirkland on Virtual appliance status
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to sync with kirkland on Virtual appliance status
<ttx> I think the server-side is under control, with mathiaz pushing fixes from niemeyer
<nurmi_> ttx,soren: one more euca issue, happy to discuss later time permitting
<ttx> nurmi_: on #ubuntu-server just after the meeting ?
<nurmi_> ttx,soren: regarding MANAGED mode instead of SYSTEM mode, is the transition on the table for beta?
<nurmi_> ttx: sounds good :)
<kirkland> mdz: ttx: i'm here now
<soren> nurmi_: !??!? that was done weeks ago?
<ttx> kirkland: yo :)
<soren> nurmi_: Surely?
<nurmi_> soren: really?
 * nurmi_ eyes himself warily
<ttx> kirkland: anything to add ? I think its more a question of objectives and priorities, right now, so discussing it with mdz should help ?
<kirkland> ttx: right, sure, my appliance creation slowed last week, as I was helping test the ISOs and fix eucalyptus bugs
<kirkland> ttx: i hit a few speed bumps creating the images, related to vmbuilder, and debconf
<soren> nurmi_: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/eucalyptus/ubuntu/revision/542
<kirkland> ttx: i have been pinged by several people in the community, saying that they have vm appliances and appliance builders that they would like us to consider
<mdz> kirkland, what is your ETA for having a working appliance image we can test?
<nurmi_> soren: the CC and NC eucalyptus.conf files on my alpha6 default install are both set to SYSTEM
<soren> I'm not convinced using a completely different, unknown tool to create appliances is a stellar idea two days before betafreeze.
<soren> nurmi_: What's in installer-cc.conf?
<kirkland> mdz: if i fall back to "rebundling", perhaps this week; i don't really like that though, as its not very reproducible
<mdz> kirkland, we need something this week
<cjwatson> what's the problem with debconf?
<kirkland> mdz: if we're trying to produce a "reference appliance", i'd think the process of creating the image is as important as the image itself
<nurmi_> soren: ah, cool! I did not know about this
<kirkland> cjwatson: couple of things, i'll poke you in -devel
<ttx> cjwatson: the Moodle appliance kirkland was working on is asking a debconf "what is your FQDN" question that we have trouble to find a sane default for
<soren> nurmi_: Good point about the NC, though.
<cjwatson> oh, so not actually a debconf bug, a use-of-debconf problem
<kirkland> ttx: it goes deeper than that
<kirkland> cjwatson: right, use-of-debconf + preseeding (sort of) issue
<ttx> ok, we should move on
<nijaba> kirkland: can't this be set to some dummy value at build time, and then configured using a firstlogin script?
<kirkland> nijaba: yes, that's what the first rev of my image did; requires the user login via ssh once
<kirkland> nijaba: mdz asked me to try and avoid that
<nijaba> ok
<ttx> kirkland: mdz should sync with you to discuss what, when and priorities
<ttx> [TOPIC] Roadmap review: Other specs from the Roadmap
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap review: Other specs from the Roadmap
<mdz> kirkland, the purpose of the reference appliance is to exercise UEC and the image store, more than the build tools
<mdz> kirkland, we need to get to a fully reproducible build, but we don't need to start there, and it's blocking other work
<ttx> anyone has anything to mention about the state of other specs from the Roadmap ?
 * ttx tries to fit into 90 minutes
<ttx> ok then
<ttx> [TOPIC] Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs
<ttx> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<cjwatson> at this point I'm considering myself almost entirely done with the eucalyptus stuff that was assigned to me, with the exception of one or two more bugs
<cjwatson> if this assumption breaks anyone, please let me know
<ttx> No bugs assigned to the team...
<nurmi_> cjwatson: we may need a few more bits in the init script to take into account /etc/eucalyptus/installer-cc.conf
<mdz> we should probably omit wishlist bugs from that list unless they're targeted
<ttx> Most of the bugs were covered in the previous lists...
<ttx> mdz: who can change that ?
<mdz> ttx, the QA team
<cjwatson> nurmi_: I noticed somebody had changed eucalyptus.conf to source installer-cc.conf itself, so wouldn't that cover that?
<ttx> [ACTION] ttx to poke QA team about omitting untargeted wishlist bugs from the buglist
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to poke QA team about omitting untargeted wishlist bugs from the buglist
<nurmi_> cjwatson: no, that file is read directly from the CC
<nurmi_> cjwatson: at least, the networking parts are
<ttx> anything in that list anyone feels uncomfortable with ?
<mdz> ttx, so long as you're prodding the QA team, please ask them to add something to those pages which tell you who to contact about them :-)
<mdz> smoser, you have one bug assigned to you which is New; please update the status
<ttx> mdz: heh
<ttx> Moving on to...
<cjwatson> nurmi_: I think I must be missing something; but I was hoping that one of the server team could clear up loose ends there, since I'm not all that well-placed for detailed testing
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review
<mdz> ttx, soren's bug list is long, and you don't seem to have any. could you take some of his perhaps?
<ttx> The list at http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html contains recently fixed bugs, if there is anything worth nominating in there, please shout now
<nurmi_> cjwatson: sure, I was thinking that this was an init script issue
<zul> ttx: not from me alot of those bugs pertain to karmic only
<ttx> mdz: I will assign myself the autoregister I just filed
<ttx> and see what I can pick to reduce soren's burden
<ttx> zul: yes.
<ttx> No nominations this week
<cjwatson> nurmi_: happy to look at a bug if it's filed, I was just sounding a general reduced-availability warning
<ttx> Accepted bugs with an assignee: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<ttx> Is this is no longer current, please shout
<zul> most of those are waiting to be accepted into *-porposed
<ttx> zul: ok, good
<mathiaz> zul: could we start to use bzr branches?
<zul> mathiaz: yep
<mathiaz> ttx: I was also think about involving sbeattie in the process
<mathiaz> ttx: to do the bzr review (last step)
<ttx> mathiaz: sure, good idea. You'll talk to him ?
<mathiaz> ttx: yes.
<ttx> [ACTION] mathiaz to involve sbeattie in the Weekly SRU review process
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to involve sbeattie in the Weekly SRU review process
<ttx> mdz: want to talk about Server Team Bug Workflow today ?
<ttx> or is it too late already ?
<mdz> ttx, I am available
<mdz> do you mean the things we've discussed by email or something new+
<mdz> ?
<ttx> mdz: no, there is an agenda item about that
<ttx> "please delay this discussion until the next meeting attended by MattZimmerman"
<mdz> ttx, let's follow up on that by email
<ttx> ok
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<erichammond> mdz: I still don't have the ability to update importance on any ec2-images bugs.  For the time being, is there a person I can send recommended changes to?
<zul> im probably going to ask a FFE for dovecot and samba any objections?
<soren> Did you not become a member of bugcontrol?
<erichammond> soren: I don't know how launchpad works, just that the Importance is not clickable for me.
<mdz> erichammond, smoser for now
<mdz> erichammond, who was helping you with joining bugcontrol? bdmurray?
<erichammond> mdz: I'd have to look that up.  I got passed around a few times.
<ttx> Eric isn't in bugcontrol yet.
<mdz> ttx, I asked Marjo to help him get set up
<ttx> ok.
<ttx> zul:  samba requires FFE ?
<zul> 3.4.1 is in debian testing
<ttx> I thought its a bugfix release
<zul> yer right it doesnt according to the changelog
<ttx> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<ttx> same time, next week, same batchannel ?
<ttx> I'll update the page to reflect the fact that our meeting now last 90 minutes
<ttx> lasts, even
<ttx> ?
<soren> I'm going to start a discussion about the meeting time real soon.
<soren> this time is absolutely horrible for me.
<soren> ...and I have a hunch that other people in CET with families are in the same boat.
<soren> So, look out for an e-mail on ubuntu-server@l.u.c.
<ttx> soren: I don't see who you're talking about
<soren> ttx: Sure you don't :)
<soren> Can we go now, please?
<soren> :)
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:35.
<Daviey> thanks.
<Daviey> soren: meeting starting at 5:00pm your local time?
<soren> Daviey: It does.
<soren> Daviey: And family dinner is 5:30 to 6:30-ish.
<Daviey> ok :)
<nurmi_> thanks all
<alexm> thanks all, see you next week
 * nhaines waves to jono.
<keffie_jayx> hey all
<nhaines> Hi, keffie_jayx.  :)
<jono> hey nhaines
<popey> o/
 * fccf waves to jono, nhaines, and CaliforniaTeam
<Grantbow_> greetings
<JanC> hey all  ?
<DarkwingDuck> Hey fccf
<popey> Welcome to the LoCo Council meeting.. Agenda -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda
<dragon> Hey all
<fccf> DarkwingDuck: nice new name DW
<DarkwingDuck> <G> Thanks fccf
<popey> Are the .ca.us people about?
<Flannel> popey: Yep
<DarkwingDuck> popey: Yup
<JanC> and (again) sorry for last week to everybody involved
<nhaines> popey: yes.
<fccf> Present and accounted for
<Grantbow_> JanC: we're glad you're all here now :-)
<popey> I believe the LoCo council have looked over your approval application already..
<JanC> well, at least 3 of us are here (which is enough for quorum)
<popey> am I right keffie_jayx  / JanC ?
<keffie_jayx> yep
<JanC> popey: me & keffie_jayx did
<popey> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-california/+mugshots scary
<popey> (in a good way)
<popey> Can someone describe the structure of the team?
<popey> Whats the team dynamic ?
<Flannel> popey: What do you mean?  How we all get along? or...
<popey> elevator pitch, what does the team do?
<popey> assume I'd not read the wiki or launchpad :)
 * popey wonders if he frightened everyone off
<Flannel> We're dedicated to promoting Ubuntu in California.  We do a lot of community outreach and support.  We've been active for about two years now and have put on a variety of events.
<popey> what kinds of community outreach things?
<popey> handing out CDs, presentations?
<Flannel> Events for a range of audiences, we participate and exhibit at exhibitions, we've done installfests, talked at local meetings of groups.
<keffie_jayx> Flannel: have there been any transitioning in LoCo team Contacts or the founders are still around?
<Flannel> keffie_jayx: I'm still around
<popey> nice Flannel
<keffie_jayx> :D
<popey> What kinds of venues do you use for install fests?
<Flannel> keffie_jayx: along with a number of people who have been with us from the beginning
<Flannel> popey: Usually schools.  With the college system here, they're all over and we've had good luck getting rooms.
<Flannel> For other events besides installfests too, bug jams, etc.
<popey> excellent
<fccf> The california team is a little interesting because (as you may or may not know) california is the #1 populated state in the US.. and we are spread out, so our actions are sometimes seen by one group and not another, so I may hand out 50 cd's in Fullerton and the people in L.A. didn't get any, or vise versa... .. Personally doing installfests (minifest) at my local starbucks ...
<popey> seems like you have clusters of members in San Fran and lots on Santa Ana, do they work separately under one banner or is everything organised centrally?
<popey> wow fccf, starbucks are open to that kind of thing are they?
<fccf> popey: so long as I buy coffee, and not be too demanding on their network
<Grantbow_> An example installfest we have worked with in San Jose is Evergreen College.  http://www.svlug.org/installfest/
<popey> :)
<Flannel> popey: We're all organized under one banner.  We had our first activities in the south (where our members were) and have been able to expand.  By sharing the experience and knowledge, it's allowed us to get other regions up to speed quickly
<JanC> I think the "'Buntu Stand" CD-burning application sounds interesting, what exactly can it do?  might be useful for other locoteams...  ?
<popey> ooo, I've been to svlug once, at Cisco
<popey> Flannel: what's the main method of communication? mailing list, forums? irc?
<Flannel> JanC: Yeah, once we finish it.  We've always designed it so that it can be used by everyone at conferences.
<popey> Flannel: is that kinda freedom-toaster on a smaller scale?
<nhaines> JanC: The idea is that you say you want x of a certain CD, and the software burns it on the machines that actually have that ISO.
<Flannel> popey: Mailing list an IRC
<nhaines> popey: Yes, very much like that, but more for facilitating mass burning.
<Flannel> popey: freedom toaster on regular hardware.  It automates the CD burning process for use during ...well, anywhere you want to give them out
<popey> right, sounds very neat, would love to see/hear more about that another time.
<popey> What does the team do in terms of support of new users?
<popey> or do you point people to the usual places, forums, answers, #ubuntu etc?
<Flannel> For online support, if we can't help them in the channel we'll point them to #ubuntu
<Flannel> But at a number of our installfests (and our talks) we've done support as well
<popey> do you get many passers-by in your channel?
<Grantbow_> popey: last night at www.sf-lug.org I fixed a LUG member's scanner by getting a firmware file installed.
<popey> heh, excellent
 * popey shakes a fist at scanners
<Flannel> popey: Occassionally.  Most of the people who are transient actually come from elsewhere inthe world, oddly enough.
<popey> yeah, we get that a lot in -uk
<popey> something about English speaking channels with lots of people in I guess :)
<popey> nice when they come back
<popey> Well, I think I've heard enough
<popey> any more questions keffie_jayx / JanC ?
<fccf> I know that Flannel, nhaines, Grantbow, and myself (and others) spend countless hours supporting people in #ubuntu .. I personally try to convince people to switch over ( in the real world )
<keffie_jayx> nope
<keffie_jayx> I am ready to vote
 * popey pokes JanC with the voting stick
<JanC> popey: yes (about 'buntu stand), but not about their approval application  ;)
<popey> ahh, ok :)
<JanC> so +1 from me
<Flannel> JanC: We'd be happy to talk afterwards
<popey> Flannel: that would rock
<popey> blog it :)
<keffie_jayx> +1 from me and looking forward to more great work from this team a hope other follow
<keffie_jayx> s/other/others
<popey> Ok, given an excellent set of pages on the wiki, and what comes across as the right attitude for a LoCo team, it's +1 from me
<popey> Congratulations, you're official :)
<popey> It's just unfortunate you have to put up with jono in your state ;)
<Grantbow_> \o/ thanks!
<Flannel> Thanks popey, keffie_jayx, JanC.
<czajkowski> Flannel: congrats!
<dragon> popey. keffie_jayx, JanC: thanks! :)
<fccf> TY LoCo Approval Team
<popey> keep up the great work!
<nhaines> Thank you very much for your endorsement.  :)
<keffie_jayx> congrats
<keffie_jayx> jono will treat beers
 * keffie_jayx runs
<popey> hehe
<nhaines> haha
<popey> ok, next item..
<popey> hmm, kind of out of sequence
<popey> oops
<popey> We need more members since boredandblogging left the team
<keffie_jayx> no problem popey california was waiting
<dantalizing> congrats Flannel
<popey> It's something we need to resolve promptly.. suggestions for a way forward keffie_jayx / JanC ? (and anyone else who has an opinion)
<keffie_jayx> I suggest that each member of  the LoCO Council make a suggestion and that we reach out to ubuntu members for nominations "from the floor"
<JanC> I think first of all we should ask locoteams to propose candidates  ?
<keffie_jayx> that way we can get our opinion and the opinion of the ubuntu members
<keffie_jayx> JanC: that is also sensible...
<dantalizing> can we nominate boredandblogging ? ;)
<czajkowski> heh
<popey> heh
<popey> well we already have at least 4 names on the mailing list suggested
<popey> more would of course be welcomed
<keffie_jayx> JanC:  your suggestion fits better since we are dealing with loco teams here
<czajkowski> is it just one position that needs filling?
<popey> So should we mail the loco mailing list and ask for volunteers
<JanC> czajkowski: yes
<keffie_jayx> popey: ok with the 4 names from the council it would do then?
<Joeb454> damn, seems I missed the meeting :(
<popey> well, we have enough names to have a sensible vote
<keffie_jayx> should we propose these to the Community Council for their approval
<keffie_jayx> or our word is enough?
<popey> but I dont want us to exclude possible others as they may be as good or better than the suggestions we have made
<keffie_jayx> popey: that's why JanC idea is great. it gives us extra input
<popey> I think we should ask the loco mailing list for volunteers, and then craft a shortlist which we pass to the cc for approval
<popey> yeah
<keffie_jayx> popey: the list but the way is a bit too public imo
<popey> we could ask people to mail the private list with their suggestions
<popey> not the public one
 * Joeb454 reads up on the subject
<Joeb454> popey: isn't your private list subject to moderation though?
<popey> yes
<popey> but thats not a problem
<JanC> I don't care about public/private list
<keffie_jayx> ohhh ok
<keffie_jayx> the LoCo Council list
<keffie_jayx> fine
<popey> yes
<Grantbow_> what are those email list addresses?
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
<popey> thats the public loco contacts list
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-council
<keffie_jayx> I agree that we should encourage the contast to email us
<Grantbow_> thanks
<popey> thats the private loco council list
<JanC> but AFAIK there is also no formal process defined about how to decide on new members?
<popey> (our list)
<keffie_jayx> popey: I understand now
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation describes the process JanC
<popey> "the Team Council sends the full list of nominees with comments and annotations to the CommunityCouncil (in the case of the MOTU Council also to the TB) "
<Joeb454> so from what I've read, boredandblogging isn't on the loco council thus you're looking for a new person(s)?
<popey> correct
<Joeb454> :)
<popey> so that page describes the process.. which in a nutshell.. we ask for volunters, or people to nominate others, those nominations are sent to loco-council, we ask those people to update their wiki pages, we send the list to the cc, they sort the vote out. Job done.
<keffie_jayx> ok
<keffie_jayx> the action
<JanC> well, I guess people can propose candidates on both lists, then we'll have to contact them if they are available & check their credentials, and then send a report to the CC ?
<popey> yup
<popey> I'm happy to draft the mail to the loco contacts list
<keffie_jayx> popey: when do we send the email, who sends it?
<keffie_jayx> popey: great :D
<JanC> popey: okay
<popey> happy?
<keffie_jayx> most happy
<keffie_jayx> :D
<popey> :)
 * keffie_jayx can write the minute for this meeting then
<popey> \o/
<popey> not over yet :)
<popey> we have some mailing list approve request tracker tickets to do
<keffie_jayx> ok
<keffie_jayx> with regards the email
<popey> yup
<keffie_jayx> when should we spect this to be sent and what is the deadline for submissions
<popey> i can send a draft to loco-council tonight, then if you guys like it, send it to loco-contacts as soon as you say okay
<keffie_jayx> ok
<popey> I'd say no more than 2 weeks for nominations
<popey> then pass to the cc
<keffie_jayx> ok
<czajkowski> give time for the CC to be elected
<czajkowski> seeing as those elections are going on at present.
<popey> that vote finishes on 6th oct iirc
<czajkowski> yup
<Joeb454> which is 2 weeks today
<popey> winner
<popey> the cc will take a while to whittle the list down anyway
<keffie_jayx> popey: ok
<popey> JanC: happy?
<JanC> yep
<Grantbow_> quite a few CC nominations in the vote, should be interesting.
<popey> yeah.. *ahem*
<keffie_jayx> alright alright
<popey> ok, so I'll mail the council tonight, once you review the mail JanC / keffie_jayx, we send to loco-contacts, and promote it
<keffie_jayx> great
<keffie_jayx> the approvals for rt?
<popey> yup
<popey> Ok, Ubuntu-BH
<JanC> anybody from Bahrain here?
<popey> I see no team on launchpad for ubuntu-bh
<popey> https://edge.launchpad.net/+search?field.text=Mohamed+ishaq&field.actions.search=Search
<popey> the guy who made the ticket doesnt have an lp id either
<JanC> they were only added to the agenda yesterday by jpds, maybe they didn't get a chance to prepare anything yet...
<keffie_jayx> ok
<JanC> popey: or under another name  ;)
<keffie_jayx> we should contact them via email to get the story
<popey> the request was made some time ago
<popey>  #   Thu Jul 23 06:54:38 2009
<popey> I would just reply to the ticket, asking if the list is still required, and what form the team is currently in
<JanC> popey: yes, but, he was only refered to the loco council yesterday?
<popey> JanC: doesn't matter really, if he made the request for a list 3 months ago, you'd expect _some_ presence on lp ?
<keffie_jayx> JanC: well jpds was working on this recently
<keffie_jayx> popey:  we should email them
<keffie_jayx> I can do that
<popey> hang on
<keffie_jayx> ok
<popey> look at ticket 7397
<JanC> popey: not all teams before they start formally
<popey> jorge already approved it
<JanC> "use LP" somewhere in between there  ;)
<popey> heh
<popey> Tue Sep 01 15:50:02 2009   jorge - Correspondence added
<popey> Approved!
<keffie_jayx> ok
<popey> so we just need to set ticket 7079 to approved
<keffie_jayx> no need to talk about it then
<popey> ya
<JanC> pfff :P
<popey> https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=6632
<popey> rtl
<JanC> is this a locoteam ?
<popey> not so much a loco list as a translators list
<jpds> Dudes, you just say you approve the creation of the mailing list on the ticket.
<popey> jpds: thats what I said
<popey> jpds: but jorge already did for -bh
 * jpds hugs popey.
 * popey hugs jpds back
<popey> not sure what we do about non-loco loco lists
<keffie_jayx> jpds: is the left-to
 * popey pokes jcastro 
<JanC> I'm not sure if RTL is about translators or about technical things?
<jpds> JanC: They are not locoteams, but they want lists so that they can start one.
<keffie_jayx> right a loco team ?
<popey> me neither
<popey> i see no reason _not_ to approve it
<keffie_jayx> jpds:  the left-to-right readers seems a language team
<keffie_jayx> neihter do I
<jpds> keffie_jayx: Yeah, I should of given that one to jcastro.
<JanC> RTL sounds technical to me  ;)
<keffie_jayx> but they belong to the translators coordinator
<popey> sounds french to me
<keffie_jayx> jpds: to david
<keffie_jayx> planella?
<popey> yeah, to david or jorge
<popey> jpds: do you want to update that one?
<jcastro> hi! what am I supposed to do?
 * jpds assigns to Jorge.
<popey> jcastro: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=6632
<popey> its a "not really a loco list"
<JanC> I think asking first about what they want to do might be useful  ?
<popey> its a list to do with Right-To-Left language/locale support in Ubuntu
<popey> JanC: sounds fair.. jcastro ?
<jcastro> sounds fine to me
<popey> "fine" as in "Approved!"
<popey> ?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> I'll update the ticket
<popey> thanks jcastro, you can go back to your lair now.
<jcastro> anything else piled up you guys want me to take care of just poke me
<keffie_jayx> jcastro: caught any ghosts yet?
<keffie_jayx> popey: the last tickets seems fine
<popey> glad you get that keffie_jayx, it's in foreign to me :)
<keffie_jayx> heh
<keffie_jayx> it is for ivory coast
<popey> ahhh
<keffie_jayx> I did some background check and there is no team set up yet
<keffie_jayx> well there is
<keffie_jayx> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ci
<keffie_jayx> but they don't have a mailing list
 * keffie_jayx needs the directory :S
<popey> heh
<keffie_jayx> <hint> <hint>
<popey> seems okay to me
<jpds> Yeah, that's owned by the guy in the ticket
<JanC> the requester seems to be involved with SFD in his country too, so looks fine  ?
<keffie_jayx> jpds: how do we approve
 * keffie_jayx is longed in in rt as ubuntu
<jpds> And judging by his second post, Jorge rejected his lists.l.n list.
<jpds> keffie_jayx: Hmm, you should have your own account...
<JanC> keffie_jayx: add a comment that it's approved and assign to anyone  ;)
<keffie_jayx> jpds: I don't :S
<popey> i have an rt account
<keffie_jayx> yone?
<popey> but my password is in a gpg signed file on another computer :S
<popey> i can do it after the meeting
<JanC> keffie_jayx: you have an account
<keffie_jayx> JanC do I ?
<popey> keffie_jayx: ping elmo to send you the password
<JanC> you're in the list  ;)
<popey> :)
<JanC> I can approve
<popey> keffie_jayx: I had this issue, I didnt know I had an account
<JanC> -ci ?
<popey> \o/ thanks JanC
<popey> yes
<keffie_jayx> ok
<keffie_jayx> great then
<keffie_jayx> popey: meeting adjouned then?
<popey> looks good
<popey> anything else JanC / keffie_jayx ?
<keffie_jayx> next meeting is the 3rd tuesday
<keffie_jayx> of october
<keffie_jayx> past the GLobal Jam
<popey> \o/
<keffie_jayx> expectmy email later tonight
<popey> typing it now :)
<keffie_jayx> ok
<keffie_jayx> great then
<keffie_jayx> see you guys
<keffie_jayx> thanks to all attendants
<keffie_jayx> jpds you rock dude
<nhaines> Thanks again for your time today.
<jpds> Not really, I just do what I love.
<keffie_jayx> jpds: are you a hall of famer?
<keffie_jayx> well
<keffie_jayx> gotta run
<jpds> keffie_jayx: Nah, I operate behind the scenes. ;)
<popey> thanks keffie_jayx / JanC
<JanC> and thanks everyone else attending the meeting  ;)
<Grantbow_> thanks for having us :)
<dantalizing> ty all
<lifeless> elky: https://lists.launchpad.net/subunit-dev/msg00033.html
<elky> lifeless, good responses so far at least
<lifeless> yes
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-23
<bodhi_zazen> 'lo everyone =)
<jamesrfla> Hi bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> I have 17:00 are we ready to start ?
<Joeb454> I have 00:01
<Joeb454> so yes :)
<jamesrfla> Sure thing. Just want to say something at the end of the meeting
<jamesrfla> *2 things
<bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:02. The chair is bodhi_zazen.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bodhi_zazen> Not a lot on the agenda =)
<bodhi_zazen> Silver_Fox is not here
<Joeb454> I'll take that one up :)
<paultag> 'lo all
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Meeting time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Meeting time
<bodhi_zazen> OK Joeb454 , thanks
<Joeb454> it's not like I'll be put on the spot or anything....right?
<bodhi_zazen> Joeb454: do you want to discuss this now ?
<Joeb454> do we have anything else to discuss?
 * jamesrfla raises hand
<Joeb454> if so do 1 first so I can read up on the subjet
<bodhi_zazen> yes
<jamesrfla> Does it have to be about meeting time or anything
<Joeb454> I seem to have somehow unsubscribed myself from the mailing list, so I'm just reading the emails silver_fox_ sent to me
<bodhi_zazen> OK
<bodhi_zazen> basically, in a nut shell, there has been an interest in establishing alternate meeting times
<paultag> o/
<bodhi_zazen> after polling all interested parties, it turns out the most people can make the meeting if it is moved up 2 hours (2 hours earlier)
<bodhi_zazen> there was a discussion on the mailing list =)
<Joeb454> ok finished :)
<Joeb454> well, finished what I have, not sure if that's all of it, but i get the jist of it
<bodhi_zazen> So , for a 2 hour time difference, I think we can try alternating the meeting times and see how attendance goes.
<Joeb454> I think alternating would work very well actually
<bodhi_zazen> Does anyone wish to add to the discussion now ?
<Joeb454> do we know if a 1 hour shift would work?
<jamesrfla> Moving the meeting time from 7PM Eastern time to 5PM eastern time is fine with me
<bodhi_zazen> How would people feel about moving the meeting time by 2 hours ?
<duanedesign> i think the alternating is a good solution.
<bodhi_zazen> 1 hour works better for me
<paultag> It works fine over here :)
<Rocket2DMn> Just a quick note, I think that those of us who can't IRC from work, moving up the meeting makes it a tad more difficult to make it back for meetings, but not necessarily enough to make it out of the question
<swoody> either is fine by me
<starcraftman> I'd just like to pipe in that I actually have class 2 hours earlier then transit, only just make it to late meetings. I may or may not make meetings if its moved up.
<paultag> starcraftman: me too, but it's manageable
<bodhi_zazen> I suggest we alternate meeting times
<bodhi_zazen> some will make some meetings , others other meetings
<starcraftman> I could prolly stick around on campus a bit, but makes getting home a bit of hassle. I'm just one guy though.
<duanedesign> Rocket2DMn: +1
<Rocket2DMn> Alternate would be best, then we only need to stress the schedule once a month instead of every 2 weeks
<paultag> starcraftman: I do the same thing
<duanedesign> Rocket2DMn: +1 again
<bodhi_zazen> If attendance drops at one of the two times we can re-visit the issue
<starcraftman> bodhi_zazen: have ya considered some sort of absentee ballot thing for important votes at meetings some people can't make? Just a thought. The topics would have to have clear yes and no propositions though and not be ambigous
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: that sounds good to me
<bodhi_zazen> people can make comments either on the mailing list or on the wiki meeting page
<Joeb454> maybe we should try the 2 hour shift initially, then at that meeting, ask about a 1 hour move?
<bodhi_zazen> so meeting times do not necessarily exclude people from discussion
<bodhi_zazen> +1 starcraftman
<bodhi_zazen> Any additional comments , otherwise shall we vote ?
<Joeb454> o/
<bodhi_zazen> yes Joeb454
<Joeb454> Can we try a 2 hour change initially (so 2200 UTC I believe), then if that works well, keep it, if not propose a 1 hour difference instead
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] Alternate meeting times ?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Alternate meeting times ?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<paultag> +1
<Joeb454> other than that - +1 for alternating the meeting times
<jamesrfla> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Joeb454> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Joeb454. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<duanedesign> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<bodhi_zazen> Any additional votes ?
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<starcraftman> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from starcraftman. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 8
<bodhi_zazen> Thank you all =)
<bodhi_zazen> I have two additional items
<bodhi_zazen> paultag: did you have a topic or item for discussion ?
<paultag> Nope
<paultag> nothing but FG stuff
<paultag> but that can wait for FG talk
<bodhi_zazen> kk
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]FG Leadership
<MootBot> New Topic: FG Leadership
<bodhi_zazen> We have discussed this in the past, but I am not sure if we came to a consensus
<bodhi_zazen> what do we wish to do with the Leadership positions ?
<paultag> o/
<bodhi_zazen> See the meeting agenda for previous discussion
<bodhi_zazen> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<paultag> o/
<bodhi_zazen> go paul =)
<paultag> So: Here is the background
<paultag> a while back I pushed to have "elections". There was little to no motivation
<paultag> I think it can be self governed right now, and if it comes down to it, bodhi can intervene, step down with grace, ya know.
<bodhi_zazen> so it seems paultag
<bodhi_zazen> some of the people on the list seem less active =)
<Joeb454> talking about the mailing list?
<paultag> Being an FG lead, of course, I am a bit biased ( to maintain leadership )
<bodhi_zazen> Joeb454: there was some discussion on the mailing list
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: if it was recent, apparently I was unsubscribed (still confused by that)
 * starcraftman goes and looks at mail list.
<Joeb454> I always read it, but I don't often respond, I'll admit
<bodhi_zazen> If there is no strong preference I will review the current leads and replace the vacant positions
<bodhi_zazen> if you all prefer we can have elections, but I am not sure of the interest
<duanedesign> if someone was interested what would be protocol
<Joeb454> I do believe I stepped down from all FG leadership roles
<bodhi_zazen> Joeb454: I understand, I get a TON of Ubuntu mailings
<Joeb454> unless we're counting the council as an FG :P
<bodhi_zazen> Shall we vote ?
<starcraftman> I personally, don't see a need for voting. Not like we are an engineering society. My 2 cents.
<Rocket2DMn> or are we....
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]bodhi.zazen to manage leadership positions ?
<MootBot> Please vote on: bodhi.zazen to manage leadership positions ?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<bodhi_zazen> 0
<Joeb454> 0
<Joeb454> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Joeb454. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jamesrfla> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from jamesrfla. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Joeb454> MootBot always confuses me with +0's
<bodhi_zazen> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 3 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 3
<bodhi_zazen> lol
<starcraftman> Is -1 against voting?
<swoody> starcraftman, +0 is against voting, -1 is against topic
<bodhi_zazen>  -1 is saying we need to elect leadership
<starcraftman> bodhi_zazen: k
<starcraftman> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from starcraftman. 4 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 4
<bodhi_zazen> any additional votes
<duanedesign> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from duanedesign. 4 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 4
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 4 abstained. Total: 4
<bodhi_zazen> OK as there is no clear consensus either way, for now I will review leadership roles
<bodhi_zazen> if anyone is either interested or disinterested (want to step up or down) please let me know
<bodhi_zazen> I will ask from time to time in the channel as well
<Rocket2DMn> sounds fair
<bodhi_zazen> My other topic is new members
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Membership process
<MootBot> New Topic: Membership process
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: o/
<paultag> mathay: poke
<bodhi_zazen> How is the new system working ?
<bodhi_zazen> yes paultag ?
<mathay> paultag: I am here.
<Rocket2DMn> I'm concerned that we havent voted on anybody for a couple of meetings
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: oh shucks. Nevermind, I misread that
<swoody> +1 Rocket2DMn
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: I was putting up mathay for this meeting
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: mathay is going up this meeting
<Rocket2DMn> With so many unvoiced people around, how do we not have new members up for vote at every meeting?
<bodhi_zazen> is the membership process broken ?
<Rocket2DMn> paultag, cool
<Rocket2DMn> I hope there are others ready for this meeting too
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: yeah actually
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: I think pedro3005
<pedro3005> hi
<Silver_Fox_> I hear fg leaders are being reviewed  thought i should drop by
<Vantrax> lol
 * Vantrax just lurks unless he has an opinion
<bodhi_zazen> LOL Silver_Fox_
<bodhi_zazen> you are too late, I usurped the power
<Silver_Fox_> Heh
<Silver_Fox_> :)
<Rocket2DMn> long live the king!
<bodhi_zazen> OK, well please, lets revamp the membership process
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: if I may
<bodhi_zazen> bring lurkers into the fold =)
<bodhi_zazen> sure paultag
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: I think we should put effort into moving idlers into the team, if they are active. Also look to recruiting from the forums, and wait out a revamp.
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: as you know, our membership cycles up and down with the release of the new Ubuntu
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: shall we wait a few weeks, and re evaluate after 09.10 ?
<bodhi_zazen> sure, I think some of the lurkers lood promising and I have given a few quizzes even
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: we should look to activity as well
<bodhi_zazen> Would be ideal to recruit just prior to the release, but I understand what you are sayig
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: oh +1. But the releases always bring people over from other distros etc
<bodhi_zazen> Shall we move to new members now then ?
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: +1
<swoody> +1
<duanedesign> we added  a few people since the last meeting. A couple were 'window watchers' and qute frankly we havent seen much of them since
<bodhi_zazen> Who is up for membership ?
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: mathay
<Vantrax> I think we need better way to engage people and get them involved on an ongoing basiss
<paultag> Vantrax: Silver_Fox_ and I are working on it
<pedro3005> bodhi_zazen, i am i guess, but nhasian isn't around
<paultag> Vantrax: we can chat about it later.
<Silver_Fox_> Vantrax, Its going to be huge when we are done
<Silver_Fox_> Can I put my padawan up?
<duanedesign> bodhi_zazen: PabloRubianes
<paultag> Silver_Fox_: if he/she is here, yeah
<bodhi_zazen> +1 Vantrax
<Silver_Fox_> well,   no diegoTC is not here on the basis that I was not expecting to be either.
<bodhi_zazen> I think really it takes people like starcraftman to be engaged in the channel =)
<bodhi_zazen> thank you to starcraftman , Silver_Fox_ , and many others who have been active
<bodhi_zazen> OK
<swoody> +1 bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] pedro3005 for membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  pedro3005 for membership
<bodhi_zazen> anyone wish to speak on pedro3005 's behalf ?
<bodhi_zazen> pedro3005: any comments ?
<Vantrax> did he get the swallow question right?
<duanedesign> I think pedro3005 does a good job in help
<pedro3005> bodhi_zazen, hm..... i don't really have anything to say lol :(
<starcraftman> sorry, I'm feeling low energy atm bodhi_zazen, why I'm so quiet. Still working on my proposal, if paultag also working on revamping membership we should talk some time.  Will get to it this weekend I'm hopeful, done lots of my uni work in advance. (oh and yes, my typing slowed)
<bodhi_zazen> Tell us about yourself pedro3005
<pedro3005> bodhi_zazen, except i've been visiting this channel for quite a long time
<bodhi_zazen> how long have you used Ubuntu ?
 * Vantrax is starting to think we should adpot the same system as ubuntu membership apps for bt ones (in regard to the wiki page and introduction)
<swoody> +1 duanedesign While nhasian might not be here, I feel pedro3005 has been active enough that we've all gotten a good feel for what kind of person he is :)
<jamesrfla> +1 Vantrax
<duanedesign> he reviews logs and i think he shows a genuine interest
<Joeb454> Vantrax: I think that's been discussed before
<pedro3005> bodhi_zazen, about a year, although I stopped a bit in the middle
<bodhi_zazen> Vantrax: we have for the most part
<pedro3005> duanedesign, who reviews logs?
<bodhi_zazen> Any other comments b4 we vote ?
<duanedesign> pedro3005: you, well scrollback might be a better term
<Rocket2DMn> pedro3005, Rio is a beautiful city, I was there a little over a year ago
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] pedro3005 for membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  pedro3005 for membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<duanedesign> +1
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<paultag> +1
<pedro3005> Rocket2DMn, cool
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<Joeb454> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Joeb454. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<jamesrfla> +0
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<MootBot> Abstention received from jamesrfla. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 8 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 8
<bodhi_zazen> Any additional votes ?
<Vantrax> so when hes called we should see Hi, my name is <Name>, my wiki page is <wiki> and a little summary of involvement/contributions. Cuts down time and gives people links
<pedro3005> you guys want my wiki page? though it's quite simple
<paultag> pedro3005: it's ok
<jamesrfla> +1 Vantrax
<paultag> we voted already
<paultag> Vantrax: this is talk for later
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 8
<swoody> welcome aboard pedro3005 :D
<bodhi_zazen> Welcome pedro3005
<pedro3005> yay :D
<bodhi_zazen> anyone else up for membership ?
<duanedesign> PabloRubianes:
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: mathay
<Vantrax> paultag: yeah, your right.. will confuse people
<mathay> Hello everyone. My name is Andrew. My wikipage is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mathay
<mathay> I've been hanging around the #ubuntu-beginners channel for awhile now.
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]mathay for membership
<MootBot> New Topic: mathay for membership
<mathay> paultag is my master.. although that makes me feel a little subservient, I feel great. ;)
<paultag> o/
<bodhi_zazen> go paultag
<paultag> I'm a bit biased, I know mathay IRL, and am his master
<bodhi_zazen> pedro3005: contact me so I may add you to the LP team
<Rocket2DMn> what is this RL you speak of?!
<paultag> but I really thing that he is quite a good fit for membership. I support him 100%
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: :P
<paultag> </plug>
<Rocket2DMn> mathay, do you contribute to Ubuntu in areas other than the forums?
<pedro3005> bodhi_zazen, when?
<bodhi_zazen> pedro3005: what is your LP user name
<mathay> Rocket2DMn: I've helped out in the #ubuntu-beginners-help area in the past, I am a part of the Ohio-Loco team as well.
<bodhi_zazen> any other comments on mathay ?
<pedro3005> bodhi_zazen, https://launchpad.net/~pedro3005
<bodhi_zazen> got you pedro3005
<bodhi_zazen> shall we vote on mathay ?
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] mathay for membership ??!?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  mathay for membership ??!?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<jamesrfla> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<duanedesign> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<starcraftman> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from starcraftman. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
<pedro3005> should i vote?
<paultag> pedro3005: you may :)
<pedro3005> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pedro3005. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9
<bodhi_zazen> any other votes ?
<bodhi_zazen> mathay: do you have a launchpad account ?
<mathay> bodhi_zazen: https://launchpad.net/~andymathay
 * bodhi_zazen notes that needs to be a requirement for membership
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 9 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 9
<Vantrax> i thought it was
<Silver_Fox_> well done mathay
<paultag> grats mathay !
 * Vantrax cheers mathay
<mathay> Silver_Fox_, Vantrax & paultag: thank you. :)
<bodhi_zazen> PabloRubianes: you here ?
<PabloRubianes> yes here
<swoody> congrats mathay :D
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] PabloRubianes for membership =)
<MootBot> New Topic:  PabloRubianes for membership =)
<PabloRubianes> hello everyone...
<PabloRubianes> I am pablo my wikipage is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PabloRubianes
<mathay> swoody: thank you too. :)
<PabloRubianes> and duanedesign is my master
<bodhi_zazen> ooo, nice wiki page =)
<paultag> o/
<jamesrfla> Nice wiki PabloRubianes
<duanedesign> it is nice :)
<paultag> PabloRubianes: in your work, moving forward with the community, have you considered translation?
<bodhi_zazen> yes paultag
<PabloRubianes> thanks... there's a link to my launchpad profile
<bodhi_zazen> paultag: if it is on topic, just proceed
<Rocket2DMn> paultag, his wiki page says he does some
<paultag> OK. Good
<duanedesign> paultag: good question. He has brought up translating my project BOUCFT
<paultag> PabloRubianes: do it :)
<paultag> duanedesign: ah, outstanding
<bodhi_zazen> Any other comments ?
<duanedesign> yes
 * bodhi_zazen has a committment to another meeting in 10 min =)
 * Silver_Fox_ has commitment to bed in 10 minutes too bodhi_zazen  =]
<duanedesign> PabloRubianes haas donr wiki work as well as how tos in spanish
<PabloRubianes> yes i like traslate, the wiki team and as i am a computer engeneer student I would like to develop some free software as well
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] PabloRubianes for membership 8)
<MootBot> Please vote on:  PabloRubianes for membership 8).
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<duanedesign> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<jamesrfla> +1
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<Vantrax> always need more translators
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
<bodhi_zazen> Any additional votes ?
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 8
<Silver_Fox_> well done PabloRubianes
<bodhi_zazen> PabloRubianes: your LP name ?
<paultag> grats PabloRubianes
<PabloRubianes> thanks!!!
<duanedesign> Congrats
<swoody> congrats PabloRubianes :D
<PabloRubianes> https://launchpad.net/~pablorubianes-uy
<PabloRubianes> thanks! i had a great master!!
<duanedesign> my first Padawan..all grown up
<Rocket2DMn> is Buuntu up for voting?
<bodhi_zazen> any other business ?
<bodhi_zazen> Buuntu: you here ?
<Buuntu> Rocket2DMn, I don't believe so, I haven't been able to get a hold of nhasian
<Buuntu> (my mentor)
<bodhi_zazen> Buuntu: have you a wiki ?
<pedro3005> Buuntu, he doesn't need to be here
<Buuntu> bodhi_zazen, yes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Buuntu
<Vantrax> bodhi_zazen is the next best thing to God around here... he can call the vote even if nhasian isnt around
<bodhi_zazen> That wiki page sucks =)
<bodhi_zazen> j/k
<Rocket2DMn> paultag, he's in your neck of the woods i think
<paultag> Buuntu?
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Buuntu for membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  Buuntu for membership
<pedro3005> he can call the vote even if freenode goes down
<dvz-> orly?
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: he just started poking about the Ohio LoCo. I'll have to get me, dvz- mathay and Buuntu together for the NEO Bug Jam
<bodhi_zazen> Buuntu: has been awesome and I support his membership =)
<Rocket2DMn> awesome
<Buuntu> bodhi_zazen, :(, does not...
<paultag> o/
<Rocket2DMn> alright well we got 2-3 minutes left, lets' do it
<paultag> me as well. I <3 Buuntu
<duanedesign> yep
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] Buuntu for membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Buuntu for membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Buuntu> paultag, :D
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<paultag> +1
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Silver_Fox_> +0
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dvz-> +1
<MootBot> Abstention received from Silver_Fox_. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<duanedesign> +1
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dvz-. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
<jamesrfla> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
<bgs100> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bgs100. 8 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 8
<bodhi_zazen> any other votes ?
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 8
<Silver_Fox_> well done Buuntu
<swoody> woot! Welcome aboard, Buuntu !!
<Buuntu> :D, thanks everyone
<duanedesign> woo hoo
<PabloRubianes> congratulations buuntu!
<duanedesign> \o/
<Buuntu> sorry I came in late, i had a rough day...
<swoody> Buuntu, really like the look of you wiki page, btw
<bgs100> Congratulations PabloRubianes and Buuntu (Sorry, was afk during PabloRubianes's voting)
<mathay> Congrats, Buuntu! :)
<bodhi_zazen> any other business ?
<Buuntu> swoody, thanks
<paultag> grats Buuntu, mathay, pedro3005, PabloRubianes
<bodhi_zazen> welcome new ones =)
<Joeb454> I'm going to have to leave, adios!
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<Joeb454> congrats all new members!
<bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:59.
<PabloRubianes> thanks paultag and bgs100
<Silver_Fox_> Hmm,  work in 5 hours....
<bodhi_zazen> Next meeting , second tues of Oct, 2 hours earlier
<Silver_Fox_> time for sleep
<bodhi_zazen> if anyone has time to update wiki, cal, MOTD
 * bodhi_zazen gotta run
<Silver_Fox_> Au Reviour
<bgs100> Also, congrats to pedro3005 and mathay (wasn't even on this channel then; Sorry again :P)
<PabloRubianes> bye silver_fox
<cjwatson> are we having a foundations meeting today?
<cjwatson> oh, heh, just saw Robbie's mail, never mind me
 * fader_ waves.
<davmor2> hello
 * ara waves
<sbeattie> hey all
<bdmurray> hi
<schwuk> hi
<ara> marjo is not going to attend today, and he asked to chair today's meeting
<ara> so here we are
<ara> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is ara.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davmor2> apologies in advance if I just disappear lug meeting is further a field tonight
<cr3> ara: you da man!
<ara> agenda as usual at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<ara> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<sbeattie> SRU Activity for the past week (since 2009-09-16) has been very light, my guess is the alpha 6 excitement distracted everybody
<sbeattie> * Jaunty: 1 new package in -proposed (postgresql-8.3) and 2 packages pushed to -updates (clamav, postgresql-8.3)
<sbeattie> * Intrepid: 1 new package in -proposed (postgresql-8.3) and 1 package pushed to -updates (postgresql-8.3)
<sbeattie> * Hardy: 3 new packages in -proposed (linux, linux-ubuntu-modules, postgresql-8.3), and 1 package pushed to -updates (postgresql-8.3)
<sbeattie> * Dapper: 1 new package in -proposed (postgresql-8.1) and 1 package pushed to -updates (postgresql-8.1)
<sbeattie> Thanks to Leonel Nunez, tz, and iGEL for testing packages in -proposed this week.
<sbeattie> That's all on the SRU front, unless there are any questions.
<ara> sbeattie, is it dapper still maintained?
<sbeattie> ara: yes, dapper's server packages are still maintained.
<ara> sbeattie, ah, ok, but not the desktop, isn't it?
<sbeattie> Correct
<ara> OK. thanks sbeattie :)
<ara> [TOPIC] Bugday highlights -- bdmurray (Brian Murray)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bugday highlights -- bdmurray (Brian Murray)
<ara> bdmurray, any comments about the last bug day?
<bdmurray> Yes, we made some progress on the bugs without a package.
<bdmurray> Particularly, thanks to jpeddicord and kamus!
<ara> What's the topic for tomorrow's bugday?
<bdmurray> ara: it is supposed to be pulseaudio and a community member is setting it up
<ara> bdmurray, mmm, the page is not there yet
<bdmurray> ara: yes, I see that :-(
<ara> bdmurray, could you approach the community member and check if he or she finally is running it?
<bdmurray> ara: yes, I'll ping them
<ara> [ACTION] bdmurray to ping the person setting up the pulseaudio bugday
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bdmurray to ping the person setting up the pulseaudio bugday
<ara> OK, next one
<ara> [TOPIC] ISO Testing Tracker improvements -- ara (Ara Pulido)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISO Testing Tracker improvements -- ara (Ara Pulido)
<davmor2> yes
<ara> I know this is an old, old issue, but there are some improvements that should be easy to fix
<ara> The list that I have (some require some more work)
<davmor2> lp and report
<ara> Reports working again and better
<ara> â¢ Launchpad data fixed
<ara> â¢ Assign something to yourself
<ara> â¢ Launchpad Open ID
<ara> do you think of anything else?
<davmor2> assigning works ara
<ara> davmor2, it is on the list :)
<ara> davmor2, or you mean assigning something to someone else
<ara> ?
<davmor2> ara: I'm saying it works can't understand why it's on the list
<bdmurray> I think she means assign an iso / test to yourself
<ara> bdmurray, that's what I meant
<bdmurray> to show that it is in progress
<fader_> e.g. "I plan to work on this test case next"
<sbeattie> a working admin interface, where adding testcases doesn't require writing sql.
<davmor2> the report working again would be the most useful thing which I think needs the lp data fix in place too
<davmor2> ara: right with you now
<bdmurray> Is there a bug open about the lp data?
<ara> no idea
<ara> which lp project contains the data of the iso tracker?
<bdmurray> ubuntu-qa-website
<bdmurray> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+bugs
<davmor2> bdmurray: pass.  but it might be that the tracker needs an update to use the data rather then the other way round
<bdmurray> Okay, I'll look into making bugs display information again in the tracker.
<ara> bdmurray, thanks!
<davmor2> bdmurray: thanks
<ara> I will try to triage the list of bugs a bit
<davmor2> right need to go sorry
<bdmurray> We should open a bug on it though
<ara> bdmurray, indeed, I'll do it
<bdmurray> ara: great, thanks
<ara> [ACTION] ara to file a bug on ISO tracker lp data
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ara to file a bug on ISO tracker lp data
<ara> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+bugs
<ara> OK, last topic in the agenda:
<ara> [TOPIC] QA Meetings logs -- ara (Ara Pulido)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Meetings logs -- ara (Ara Pulido)
<ara> The meetings page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings hasn't been updated in a while
<ara> what do you guys think is better to maintain there, only the Mootbot summary? the logs? a human written summary?
<ara> I am worried that people that cannot attend the meeting, never have access to the discussed data
<bdmurray> I think a human written summary would likely be the most useful
<bdmurray> It doesn't need to be long just elaborate on the mootbot summary
<sbeattie> I agree, but it's also he most effort, and as a likely low priority task for whoever decides to take it on, will likely get dropped (as has happened currently)
<fader_> Might there be any community members who would be interested in helping out with this?
<ara> mmm, what about copying the mootbot summary, and send a reminder to the owners of the topic to extend a bit theirs?
<ara> I will send an email to the ubuntu-qa list to check with the rest of the community
<bdmurray> sounds good
<ara> [ACTION] ara to send an email to ubuntu-qa with the different possibilities for maintaining the meeting logs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ara to send an email to ubuntu-qa with the different possibilities for maintaining the meeting logs
<ara> any other topics?
<bdmurray> yes, I've been working with five-a-day stats some recently
<bdmurray> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/five-a-day/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/five-a-day/
<bdmurray> I've made some changes to the weekly stats and added the daily stats
<bdmurray> blog post to follow sometime soon ;-)
<ara> Nice!
<ara> anything else?
<bdmurray> nope
<ara> OK, let's wrap up
<ara> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:35.
<ara> thanks!
<cr3> thanks ara
<fccf> Good Afternoon - Americas Council , who's here?
 * pleia2 waves
<jbernard_> o/
<nhasian> I'm here
<pleia2> just rounding up one more person for quorum on the board :)
<pleia2> we'll be with you shortly
<fccf> pleia2: TY
 * beuno is sorry he is late
<pleia2> hurrah
<beuno> I'm in the UK, timezones...
<fccf> hazzah
<fccf> Well good evening beuno
<Joeb454> beuno: it's only 11pm ;)
<DKcross> :)
<beuno> ...after a 12 hour work day, yes
<pleia2> ok everyone, welcome to the Americas Board meeting
<beuno> hello to everyone!
<Joeb454> beuno: touche - I'll let you off...and stop talking
<pleia2> oubiwann, Wiebelhaus, and Tenach don't seem to be here
<pleia2> jbernard_: you're up, please post an intro with a line or two of introduction, and a link to your wiki page :)
<jbernard_> great!
<jbernard_> Hello everyone, I'm Jon Bernard, an aspiring ubuntu developer
<jbernard_> lp: https://launchpad.net/~jbernard
<jbernard_> wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JonBernard
<jbernard_> I've been working with the server team for the past year or so
<beuno> (btw, launchpad is going down in a few minutes, so don't rely on it, or open it up in tabs *now*)
<pleia2> beuno: good call, thanks :)
<jbernard_> recently ive been working on several packages for the upcoming karmic release, libcgroup and lua-iconv for example
<pleia2> jbernard_: are you planning on joining motu? (you can get ubuntu membership that way too)
<jbernard_> that is the ultimate goal, though I believe I need a few more proof points to make MOTU, I thought becoming a member would be a good intermediate step
<beuno> jbernard_, have your packages been included in karmic?
<jbernard_> yes
<nhandler> jbernard_: You can also apply to be an Ubuntu Contributing Developer (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Ubuntu%20Contributing%20Developers) to gain Ubuntu Membership (via the MOTU Council)
<beuno> w00t, that's great
<pleia2> yeah, it's not really well-advertised I guess, but for developers like yourself we tend to defer to nhandler's suggestion
<beuno> jbernard_, how about LoCo participation and such?
<jbernard_> i've been watching the loco mailing list lately but haven't had much time to get involved, i live in a far away place in virginia, quite far from most of the contributers on the list, but it is something I'd like to do more of once karmic releases and i get some more free time
<jbernard_> nhandler: thanks for the link, i will look into that. is that a required step prior to applying for MOTU?
<pleia2> jbernard_: nice work, but since you're a developer and your core work here is packaging, I'm going to suggest you go through becoming a contributing developer and gain membership through the motu council
<nhandler> jbernard_: No. It is not a requirement for MOTU. It is just an alternate method for people who are active in Ubuntu Development to gain membership
<jbernard_> ok, that seems fair
<beuno> jbernard_, awesome work though
<beuno> packagers are my heroes
<jbernard_> thank you
<pleia2> jbernard_: and sorry for the process being somewhat unclear in this regard, the motu council is just much better equipped for handling these apps :)
<jbernard_> no worries, thanks for your time
<pleia2> thanks, great work jbernard_, much appreciated!
<pleia2> ok, no delphiexile, so it looks like nhasian is up :)
<nhasian> sweet shall i start?
<pleia2> nhasian: yes please :)
<nhasian> Hello, my name is Nasser Hasian.  I'm a member of the Arizona LoCo.
<DiegoTc> go for it nhasian
<DiegoTc> :D
<nhasian> My wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/nhasian and launchpad is https://launchpad.net/~nhasian
<nhasian> I've been using computers since I had a Commodore Amiga 500.  I dabbled in linux every once in a while with Redhat 5, Corel Linux, etc but it didnt really stick until I tried Ubuntu 8.04.
<nhasian> Since then Ubuntu has been my primary operating system, and I've been helping out where ever I can in launchpad, ubuntu forums, irc, testing ubuntu+1 etc.
<Technoviking> nhasian: nice body of work, what are your plans for the future?
<boredandblogging> nhasian: planning on doing more with the AZ LoCo?
<pleia2> nhasian: you're a member of the AZ team, but your app doesn't discuss how you've been involved - can you expand upon your work with that team?
<nhasian> Technoviking, I plan on continuing to help new users install and migrate over to ubuntu in the forums.  I'd like to do more documentation work either on the wiki or my own how-to's.  i would also like to try my hand in packaging.
<beuno> great testimonials
<boredandblogging> wow, you got tyche to say something nice, kudos!
<pleia2> boredandblogging: must have pried tyche out of his cave with snacks
<nhasian> boredandblogging & pleia2 actually yes.  I participated in our AZ Loco installfest for Ubuntu 8.10, but I missed the one for 9.04.  I would like to get our LoCo to do more activities outside of the installfests
<pleia2> nhasian: is AZ doing anything for the Global Jam in a couple weeks?
<Technoviking> anyone here to cheer for nhasian
<nhasian> even if its just for our loco to get together for a picnic or bikeride etc to help get to know each other outside of irc and bounce ideas off of each other to continue helping out
<Joeb454> Technoviking: I'm here to cheer for nhasian
<DiegoTc> Technoviking: i am here to cheer nhasian
<nhasian> pleia2, not that i'm aware of
<Joeb454> I would've written a testimonial, but that implied I was going to sleep
<Technoviking> Any more questions?
<duanedesign> Technoviking: i am here on his behalf as well
<pleia2> great work, nhasian :) +1 from me
<Technoviking> +1 here, great body of work.
<boredandblogging> +1
<beuno> +1
<Technoviking> Congrats nhasian!!!
<pleia2> congrats, welcome nhasian!
<Rocket2DMn> good hob nhasian :)
<DiegoTc> well done nhasian
<DiegoTc> :D
<nhasian> whew thanks.  just in time, my PDPC support cloak is about to wear out :)
<DKcross> nhasian,  congrats!
<pleia2> nhasian: just drop by #ubuntu-irc to get your new ubuntu one :)
<duanedesign> way to go nhasian
<pleia2> ok, DKcross you're up! please introduce yourself and provide a link to your wiki page
<nhasian> Thanks everyone
<DKcross> Hello everyone! I'm Dkcross this is my wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DKcross  and this is my launchpad profile https://launchpad.net/~dkcross , I'm from El Salvador..
<DKcross> well... my english is not very good, my friend DiegoTc will help me..
<DiegoTc> yes
<DiegoTc> :D
<DKcross> :) thanks man!
<pleia2> thanks for your help DiegoTc :)
<DiegoTc> np
<pleia2> is there a link to the ubuntu el salvador wiki?
<pleia2> or website
<DiegoTc> http://ubuntusv.org/ubuntu_web/
<pleia2> gracias
<DKcross> bueno en la parte de mi trabajo dentro de las comunidades olvide poner el link, pero en la parte de mÃ¡s informaciÃ³n hay algunos links , perdon
<beuno> DKcross, I'd switch back to english  ;)
<DiegoTc> DKcross: said i forget to put the link, but on the contributions i have made there is the link sorry
<DiegoTc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ElSalvadorTeam
<DKcross> DiegoTc,https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ElSalvadorTeam
<DKcross> gracias
<beuno> DiegoTc, and what are your plans for the future?  (cuales son tus planes para el futuro?)
<beuno> er, DKcross
 * beuno is dizzy
<DKcross> los planes a futuros es seguir trabajando en la comunidad local de ubuntu, para que en mi paÃ­s muchas mÃ¡s personas conozcan acerca de ubuntu
<DKcross> pero, enfocando el apoyo directamente a los centros escolares publicos
<beuno> gotcha, continue spreading Ubuntu and help schools directly
<beuno> awesome
<Technoviking> Any more questions?
<pleia2> great!
<beuno> I'm ready to vote with a big fat +1
<DKcross> ya que el proximo aÃ±o el gobierno de El Salvador comenzara a migrar las computadoras
<DiegoTc> DKcross: saids: my plans for the future is to continue working on the loco team of my country , so in my country more people continue spreadin ubuntu
<Technoviking> Anyone to cheer for DKcross?
<DKcross> de windows a Ubuntu
<jelkner> yes
<jelkner> DKcross rocks!
<pleia2> +1 very good work, DKcross!
<DiegoTc> yeas i am here
<DiegoTc> <santiago-ve> I've been in touch with DKcross for some time... actually i've seen him working for the El Salvador Team, trying to get the services for his team, as well as working with the website, and these amazing screencasts he does! Go DKcross
<tatica1> Iá¸¿ here to support DKccross too
<pleia2> DiegoTc: thanks :)
<tatica1> He had been helping Ubuntu Honduras community a lot
<jelkner> i've been working with DKcross on a community project
<DiegoTc> DKcross: rocks :D
<Technoviking> +1 for DKcross, fantastic work in Ubuntu!!!
<boredandblogging> +1
<DKcross> :D thanks Technoviking
<pleia2> congrats, DKcross! welcome :)
<DiegoTc> Bien Hecho DKcross
<DiegoTc> :D
<Technoviking> Congrats DKcross!!! welcome aboard!!
<DiegoTc> Felicidades
<DKcross> epale estoy feliz jaja :D
<DKcross> santiago-ve,  thanks too
<pleia2> fccf: ok, you're up! please introduce yourself and post a link to your wiki page :)
<fccf> Greetings Board Members, My name is Hilaire Francis Nollette III and I am what I would consider to be an advanced Ubuntu User, as I have been using ubuntu for almost 5 years, wiki here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/metaeoc Lots to read there ... and lp http://www.launchpad.net/~metaeoc ...  See also http://tr.im/broadcastubuntu
<fccf>  I am currently the sysadmin of http://www.fullertonfirstchristian.org:81 .. which is a streaming radio server, running Ubuntu Hardy, Campcaster (broadcast automation suite), Streaming out via Flumotion and providing the Java Client Cortado for listening to the OGG within the webpage ... the stream can also be accessed directly via http://www.fullertonfirstchristian.org:8801/fccf.ogg
<fccf> I am planning on attending the Karmic Global Jam at the local university with My LoCo Team - Which became official yesterday.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam ... I am also actively planning to start a Internet Television Broadcast Project, Still figuring out costs and needs, but that is a real possibility within the year, I am planning to use Ubuntu as much as possible from content creation to broadcast delivery...
<fccf> A little more about me ... My father owned one of the first retail computer stores in california, and the first in the locality, this was in the early 1980's - I had tons of hands on expierence with what was at the time the latest technology,  and that has continued through now, where I have a intense love for computers, software and especially open-source. More recently, I spend much of my time consulting on various projects for a number of clients,
<fccf> Some Like www.wqrz.org which is a non-profit broadcast radio station in Mississippi, where I hold the position of Network Technologist,  I am also their web-designer ( origionally built on Dapper, and moved to godaddy for hosting )... Other events include setting up huge portable networks @ ESPN's X-Games in Aspen Co. .. I am also a practicing Theater Technician and am playing around with some DMX stuff using ubuntu as a toolkit
<fccf> I am a very new member of the California LoCo, so I haven't done much officially there, however... I will be attending GlobalJam and providing some duplication for the team as I have access to a duplicator
<fccf> I welcome your questions
<Technoviking> What work do you do in the California Loco (congrat CA LoCo btw!!!)
<Technoviking> what are you plans for Ubuntu work in the future?
<beuno> fccf, still with ys?
<beuno> *us
<fccf> Technoviking: Like I said, I am a new member of that group, not exactly sure yet, I do plan on attending meetings, provide duplication, and promote ubuntu... I plan on helping Campcater as much as I can in the way of writing and hopefully find MOTU developers to do the programming and packaging for a complete Campcaster for Ubuntu ( in it's current form CC is difficult for the end user
<fccf> yes I am here
<boredandblogging> fccf: evaluting membership is based on what work you have done within the Ubuntu community
<Technoviking> Anyone have testimonials for fccf?
<boredandblogging> while you have done a lot of work installing and supporting Ubuntu servers, your application doesn't say much about your work inside the community
<fccf> I spend alot of time in #ubuntu providing support to new users, Grepping I have found over 10000 instances of fccf in my logs for the last 4 months
<fccf> I also often deal with the people that make it difficult to provide support, .. Like this morning someone was asking for help with icecast on slackware, I was a little shocked that he was asking in #ubuntu and hopefully pointed him in the right direction
<Technoviking> I think we are ready.
<pleia2> I'm with boredandblogging here, I would really like to see more core ubuntu community work, maybe expanding involvement further with the Ubuntu California team, -1 for now
<boredandblogging> fccf: I'd like you to come back after working with CA some
<Technoviking> -1 here, I would like to see more community work or maybe some packaging wit campcater
<beuno> supporting users in #ubuntu is very hard work. I think that you need a little bit more involvement in the wider community, integrate a bit more, and you'll be in a great position for membership
<tatica1> he is a very cooperative person
<tatica1> :D
<beuno> so +0, if such a think exists
<fccf> I'd be happy to continue in the right direction
<fccf> beuno: that's a no vote
<Technoviking> fccf: please try again in a few months
<pleia2> fccf: excellent! please feel free to come back in a few months :)
<fccf> Thank you for your time, see you soon
<beuno> fccf, thanks, and keep on rocking
<pleia2> ok, rockstar, you're up! please share a quick introduction and link to your wiki page :)
<Technoviking> think he left?
<pleia2> rockstar: you here?
<Technoviking> rockstar: hello?
<rockstar> Sorry, just woke up.
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-24
<rockstar> So, my name's Paul Hummer, I work on the Launchpad Code team.
<rockstar> I haven't been very good at keeping track of everything I've done with Ubuntu, but I've been doing better recently.
<rockstar> My wiki page is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulHummer
<pleia2> rockstar: are you involved with the colorado loco team at all?
<pleia2> sounds like your plan to work with local school districts would be a great project for the team
<rockstar> Well, involved in that I'm on the mailing list.  I used to be around for the meetings in IRC, but the LoCo team hasn't been doing much recently.
<rockstar> pleia2, yeah, there were a couple of people working with schools.  I just made some contacts last week at some bigger schools.
<pleia2> I find that frequently a lot of teams just need an energetic member to get things going again :) think you'd be interested in suggesting this project to jumpstart things again over there?
<rockstar> Sure, although I'm also a bit farther away from most of the team geographically.  I've thought about starting another LoCo group up in Northern Colorado,
<pleia2> well, loco teams are divided up by state, so I'd recommend another regional segment of the same team
<rockstar> I went to school about 15 minutes east of where I currently live, in a rural area.  I'm pretty convinced that getting Free Software into U.S. schools will start with the ones with terrible funding/football teams.
<boredandblogging> lol
<rockstar> pleia2, yeah, it's just been something in the back of my mind.
<pleia2> but cool :) I think you might find that one you get things rocking in northern CO southern might be shamed into following ;)
<rockstar> Yea, I've worked a lot with the local LUG here.  I even organized the last install fest.
<pleia2> woohoo, lugs! :)
<nixternal> hola
<rockstar> Most the Ubuntu virgins that showed up there were older than 60.  It was crazy.
<nhasian> wow 60 year old virgins?  that IS crazy
<greg-g> I just wanted to make it known in the meeting log I am here and have been given the scrollback of rockstar's application in a PM.
<Technoviking> I have to step out (dead server at work) but +1 from me for rockstar, great work in LP and Edubuntu!
<pleia2> well, I've grilled you plenty about the loco team, but your other work in the community speaks for itself, well done rockstar! +1 for membership from me :)
<nixternal> +1 from me on rockstar
<greg-g> I also give a +1 to rockstar
<boredandblogging> anyone who works on LP is +1 from me
<nixternal> liar!
<greg-g> thanks for your work, rockstar !
<nhasian> rockstar, great job man congrats
<greg-g> thats 5 +1s, welcome aboard!
<pleia2> congrats rockstar, welcome :)
<nixternal> congrats and welcome rockstar
<rockstar> Thanks guys!
<pleia2> lp has been read-only for the past hour, but I'll be adding everyone who was approved this evening to the members team as soon as I can
<pleia2> thanks for coming everyone! congrats again to the new members :)
 * beuno waves and leaves for bed, hoping that he wakes up to a read-write launchpad
<nhasian> bye everyone
<beuno> congrats to all the new ubuntees
<greg-g> thanks everyone
<DKcross> thanks!!
 * beuno winks at rockstar 
<greg-g> congrats to rockstar and the others who I missed, I'm sure you all deserved it! :)
<DKcross> i cant believe!
<DKcross> :)
 * rockstar waves at beuno 
<bodhi_zazen> 'lo forumsmatthew =)
<forumsmatthew> greetings
<bodhi_zazen> Technoviking: poke ;)
<bodhi_zazen> anyone else here for the FC meeting ?
<forumsmatthew> I don't see u-g, bapoumba, or kiwi online, but it's early. I just gave jdong a ping
<bodhi_zazen> kk, I cleaned out the schedule earlier so it looks light :twisted:
<forumsmatthew> The first item is more of an FYI/announcement thing, so even if the others aren't here, I think we can put it on the record.
<forumsmatthew> The second is something we have discussed on the mailing list and can finalize, I think.
<forumsmatthew> let's give people a little more time, though
<DKcross> i have questions..:|
<DKcross> well... now that I'm ubuntu member before the meet.. what is the next step?
<bodhi_zazen> Sec DKcross , we will give you a chance =)
<DKcross> thanks
<bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:10. The chair is bodhi_zazen.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bodhi_zazen> Let's start then
<bodhi_zazen> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] UA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  UA Team
<bodhi_zazen> This is primarily an update, this has been discussed on the mailing list as well
<bodhi_zazen> ajmorris has been busy with school and did not officially "step down" as team lead, but has not been overly active either
<bodhi_zazen> Hellow and PT are willing to help, but PT seems busy, so that leaves Hellow for now
<bodhi_zazen> Hellow has been doing great
<bodhi_zazen> Comments , questions ?
<forumsmatthew> I'm glad to see we have good people involved
<bodhi_zazen> DKCross are you Lord Xeb ?
<forumsmatthew> thanks to PT and Hello
<forumsmatthew> Hellow
<DKcross> bodhi_zazen,  what?
<bodhi_zazen> Next topic ?
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Lord Xeb
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lord Xeb
<forumsmatthew> Okay, since it seems Lord Xeb is not here...
<DKcross> :o
<forumsmatthew> we have discussed this on the mailing list in depth
<forumsmatthew> we have no intention of allowing him to return
<forumsmatthew> the account is not going to be "unbanned"
<bodhi_zazen> +1, that has been the general consensus
<forumsmatthew> now that we have this in the official record, we can probably move on, unless there is another comment specific to that issue
<bodhi_zazen> Any further comments ?
<bodhi_zazen> Any further questions
<forumsmatthew> I have something short to add at the end of the meeting. It will be quick
<bodhi_zazen> OK
<forumsmatthew> let's move on to see what DKcross wanted to say/ask
<bodhi_zazen> DKcross: did you have a question ?
<DKcross> no, no man
<DKcross> thanks
<bodhi_zazen> OK, forumsmatthew :
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]meetings, irc, and the FC
<MootBot> New Topic: meetings, irc, and the FC
<forumsmatthew> almost all of the FC members work jobs that do not permit access to IRC
<forumsmatthew> we have a lot of trouble finding times when all of us are both awake and at home
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<forumsmatthew> we are talking and looking for other options for public, regular meetings
<bodhi_zazen> There was a general consensus to 22:00:00 UTC time
<forumsmatthew> yeah, we're going to see how that works for a while
<bodhi_zazen> since not many are here, mailing list ?
<forumsmatthew> I have to leave work early to make that time
<forumsmatthew> anyway, I just want it on the record...
<forumsmatthew> that we are aware this is a problem
<forumsmatthew> and we are looking for a solution
<forumsmatthew> that's all I had to say on that
<bodhi_zazen> IRC meeting are a commitment especially as we are not all in the same time zone
<forumsmatthew> we haven't yet found anything better, but it would be nice
<bodhi_zazen> mailing list seems better, at least if an agenda item is discussed and people can express their votes on the issue if needed
<forumsmatthew> that works for just about everything and I like that most business has moved to the mailing list
<bodhi_zazen> I am frequently on IRC and do not mind passing information IRC <-> mailing list
<forumsmatthew> let's see where things go next
<bodhi_zazen> I think it is good to hold sessions where we can listen to the community, but IRC is not the only option, we can , well, forums =)
<bodhi_zazen> Any other topics ?
<bodhi_zazen> Otherwise it has been 20 minutes and I think we can end the meeting
<forumsmatthew> +1
<forumsmatthew> bye, everyone!
<bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:22.
<dholbach> mdeslaur, mterry, jpds, soren, nixternal: around?
<mterry> dholbach, hihi
<mdeslaur> dholbach: yes
<nixternal> hola
<jpds> Hello.
<dholbach> I talked to jpds a few minutes ago, so let's kick off the meeting :)
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> We have an agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting
<dholbach> Fabrice notified us that he might not be able to make it, or later, so we'll do mdeslaur and mterry first
<mterry> ok
<dholbach> if this doesn't work out for Fabrice, we can still have a chat with him tomorrow and try to organise an impromptu meeting
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Marc Deslauriers' MOTU application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Marc Deslauriers' MOTU application
<dholbach> hey mdeslaur - how are you doing?
<mdeslaur> dholbach: great!
<dholbach> cool - that's what we like to hear :)
<mdeslaur> so, my application is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcDeslauriers/MOTUapplication
<dholbach> great
<dholbach> mdeslaur: when you started participating in Ubuntu development what did you find the toughest challenge?
<mdeslaur> Coming from an rpm background, I think the toughest challenge was learning debian packaging
 * nixternal kicks the wiki
<mdeslaur> There's a _bunch_ of different patch systems I had to wrap my head around
<mdeslaur> but once I figured the main ones out, the rest wasn't bad
<geser> how is rpm packaging compared to debian packaging?
<dholbach> mdeslaur: mvo and I were talking about patch systems and creating a wrapper around all of them, so you just have to master one command... do you think that'd help?
<nixternal> mdeslaur: I agree with you 100%...though I went from Debian to RPM recently, and it amazes how easy it is to package an RPM package...not so much easy, as it is less time consuming
<nixternal> though, because it is easier/less time consuming...man it can create some headaches really quick
<mdeslaur> well, packaging RPMs is pretty simple, as everyone pretty much does it the same way
<mdeslaur> but, on the other hand, RPMs are very simple, so as soon as you want to do something a little more advanced, it gets complicated
<dholbach> mdeslaur: what apart from patch systems do you think might be unnecessarily complicated or do you think there's a good justification for everything?
<nixternal> one of the things I see in your application is working on getting AppArmor support intgrated into apache...what is the future off apparmor? is it sticking around or is it going to get replaced?
<mdeslaur> dholbach: i think having a bunch of different build systems is slightly complicated for a beginner also
<dholbach> nixternal: http://lwn.net/Articles/353837/ :)
<mdeslaur> nixternal: apparmor just got submitted upstream
<mdeslaur> nixternal: it's the MAC system that fits well with Ubuntu ideals
<nixternal> guess I should start reading again :)
<dholbach> mdeslaur: so you think the variety of options to get the job done is the biggest problem?
<mdeslaur> dholbach: to answer you earlier question, the what-patch command, and having XXX-edit-patch for every patch system is cool
<dholbach> mdeslaur: I was more talking about one edit-patch command that does all the work for you :)
<mdeslaur> dholbach: yeah, that would be great
<nixternal> mdeslaur: why did you apply for MOTU instead of just going for core-dev?
<dholbach> mdeslaur: so... are you up for hacking on it on the next sprint? :)
<mdeslaur> nixternal: the process seems to be going through MOTU first, and being a Canonical employee, I didn't want to appear to be getting favors
<mdeslaur> dholbach: sure :)
<dholbach> mdeslaur: cool :-)
<mdeslaur> nixternal: does that make sense?
<nixternal> hrmm, we really need to fix something if a lot of people think MOTU is the first step...
 * mterry thinks that too
<jpds> nixternal: Soon it will all be the same.
<nixternal> mdeslaur: as a Canonical employee you wouldn't get any favors, I automatically vote -1 for you all :p
<mdeslaur> nixternal: oh, cool :)
<nixternal> haha
<dholbach> mdeslaur: nixternal was saying about some applicants that hadn't paid him
<dholbach> .... anyway :)
<nixternal> ya, it seems a vast majority of the packages you worked on are in main with just a few in universe/multiverse
<mdeslaur> nixternal: I do a lot of security update sponsoring for universe
<mdeslaur> nixternal: and, do some security updates for universe in my spare time on packages I use
<nixternal> mdeslaur: right, and if you went for core-dev and got it, you have access everywhere, which is where I think you should have went to be honest, but it is cool if you want to start here :)
<mdeslaur> nixternal: I also fixed a bunch of issues in gnome-ppp the other day
<dholbach> geser, jpds: more questions?
<mdeslaur> nixternal: I plan on becoming core-dev
<nixternal> not bashing you for going MOTU first :)
<jpds> None from me.
<nixternal> I am good on questions, and will have 1 recommendation when this is complete
<geser> dholbach: no
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Marc Deslauriers become MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Marc Deslauriers become MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<jpds> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<dholbach> congratulations mdeslaur!
<nixternal> mdeslaur: congrats and welcome!
<mdeslaur> thanks everyone :)
<jpds> mdeslaur: congrats!
<nixternal> mdeslaur: my 1 recommendation...NOW APPLY FOR CORE DEV! :)
<fabrice_sp> congrats mdeslaur :-)
<dholbach> hahaha
<mdeslaur> nixternal: yes!
<mterry> yay
<dholbach> fabrice_sp turned up, so we'll keep in order of the agenda
 * nixternal now has someone else new to pick on for KDE security stuff... kees will be happy
<fabrice_sp> I sorted some traffic jam :-)
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Fabrice Coutadeur's MOTU application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Fabrice Coutadeur's MOTU application
<dholbach> hey fabrice_sp - how are you doing?
<fabrice_sp> I'm good. thank you :-) A bit nerviuos, I have to say...
<fabrice_sp> (I think you'll a lot of typos today :-) )
<dholbach> no need to do... apart from nixternal nobody of us bites
<fabrice_sp> lol
<geser> lucky for mterry as else we would need asking him questions till fabrice_sp appears :)
<nixternal> I don't bite, but I do punch :D
 * mterry will happily wait to be grilled
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: good work on the FTBFS front - I had a look at a few patches of yours this morning
<fabrice_sp> I saw that :-)
<dholbach> jpds, geser, nixternal: questions
<nixternal> working on that now :)
<fabrice_sp> I will submit the missing one to Debian just after this meeting
 * nixternal notes the new LP interface is confusing as hell
 * fabrice_sp noted that this morning
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: you're interested in video editing... how are things looking there in Ubuntu?
<dholbach> and do you have any plans for lucid with that?
<jpds> fabrice_sp: Other than changelogs do you seriously have no areas to improve?
<fabrice_sp> Well better now that there are some packages in Debian, but there is still a lot of packages only in Debian Multimedia that needs some care :-)
<fabrice_sp> For Lucid, I really really want to get the latest Openmovieeditor, that I hosted in my ppa since beginning of the year
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: what was the blocker to get it in Ubuntu?
<fabrice_sp> I assume you remember the 'gmerlin-avdecoder' bug :-)
<dholbach> beginning of the year and not in Ubuntu sounds like something went wrong
<dholbach> yes, I remember bits of it
<fabrice_sp> well, this missing package
<nixternal> good work on the old aRts removal stuff btw
<fabrice_sp> since my sync request and when you had a look at it, the package became non buildable in karmic
<fabrice_sp> nixternal, thanks :-) Even if I'm not a K guy, I sometine fix some K packages :-)
<dholbach> ah ok... I remember... do you think there's a way to get it fixed?
<nixternal> fabrice_sp: since none of your endorsements say there are any areas to improve on with yourself, do you think you have some areas to improve on at all, and if so what are they?
<fabrice_sp> dholbach, we just need to sync some packages from Debian and get this one from Debian multimedia
<nixternal> fabrice_sp: that is always good in my books, people like dholbach just walk past them and assign me to them... or is that jcastro that does that :D
<dholbach> what? :)
<fabrice_sp> nixternal, I really need to improve the link with Debian. It's still somewhat obscure to me how Debian packages and maintainer really work
<fabrice_sp> technical knowledge about building systems (discovered dbs some days ago :-) )
<nixternal> groovy!
<dholbach> jpds, geser: more questions?
<nixternal> I am done
<jpds> Likewise.
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Fabrice Coutadeur become MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Fabrice Coutadeur become MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jpds> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<nixternal> fabrice_sp: congrats and welcome!
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: congratulations
<jpds> fabrice_sp: Congrats!
<fabrice_sp> thanks! That was quick :-)
<dholbach> It was time that you applied already :-)))))
<fabrice_sp> lol
<fabrice_sp> dholbach, thanks for your support: you sponsored almost 80% of my debdiff :-)
<dholbach> that might well be
<dholbach> now I can sleep one hour longer every morning ;-)
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Michael Terry's MOTU application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Michael Terry's MOTU application
<fabrice_sp> lol
<mterry> heyo
<dholbach> mterry: hey Michael - how's life? :)
<mterry> Good.  I'm in Portland for the Plumbers conference
<dholbach> ah cool
<nixternal> mterry: interesting, you work for OEM services, yet cody-somerville hasn't chimed in on your application, time we do something about that cody character :p
<geser> dholbach: I guess will find a new contributor for you soon to wake you up early :)
<mterry> nixternal, yeah, I dunno.  When I applied for Membership, he abstained because he works with me.  Might be a conflict of interest thing
<dholbach> mterry: how's deja-dup coming on? when is it ready for the default install?
<nixternal> oh ya, he does that all of the time, then I try to smack it into him to give me the goods :D
<mterry> dholbach, pfft, today!  :)
<mterry> dholbach, it's good.  Will release a new version next week
<mterry> Always looking for contributors...
<dholbach> mterry: so if I'll try to let it keep a few files and folders in sync for me on a couple of machines that'll work easily? :)
<nixternal> mterry: well the same question for you, since your endorsements don't list any things you need to work on, just how perfect are you? :p  what areas do you think you can improve on?
<mterry> dholbach, sync'ing isn't really it's forte.  More for disaster recovery
<dholbach> ah ok
<nixternal> what happened to that nip2 upload on June 15th that didn't build on a darn thing?
<mterry> nixternal, well, there's bits of process that I tend to forget like running update-maintainer.  And like I mention, I think I'm a bit hasty at times.  Need to slow down and double-verify my patches.  :)
<nixternal> you and I both on update-maintainer
<nixternal> at least debuild tells ya, "HEY! FIX IT NOW!"
 * mterry tries to remember the nip2 debacle.
<mterry> nixternal, there was at least one case of me forgetting to actually build a package and it ftbfs (totally my fault).  And there was once case of it becoming unbuildable between my patch and when it got pushed
<mterry> So I don't remember which nip2 is
<nixternal> hehe, tis ok
<mterry> I was doing a lot of merges at the time.  They all kind of merged together in my memory.  (hah!)
<nixternal> i have built stuff locally just fine, only to upload it and watch it blow up
<nixternal> or I was in the wrong Konsole tab and committed something that wasn't supposed to be committed
<dholbach> for those who are interested in fixing it later on: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/29642970/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.nip2_7.18.1-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz :-)
<mterry> Ahah.
<mterry> This is the one I forgot to build
<mterry> And I've looked into fixing it.
<nixternal> hehe
<mterry> Not an easy task.  it uses lots of 'private' GTK+ struct members that are now gone
<mterry> Lots of code changes.
<dholbach> sounds like something that upstream should learn about
<mterry> I believe I filed an upstream bug
<dholbach> great
<dholbach> do you have any more specific plans than getting deja-dup into main? :)
<mterry> I don't think they have a bug tracker, hopefully I emailed that out
<nixternal> no more questions from me...my dogs are clawing at my legs to go outside :p
<mterry> hehe.  I hope to sponsor lots of stuff.  Long sponsorship queues are bad for both sides
<dholbach> ok... that makes me happy - no more questions from me :)
<dholbach> jpds, geser?
<jpds> None.
<nixternal> -1
<nixternal> ;p
<geser> mterry: how did you manage to get member of ~ubuntu-mir before ~motu?
<mterry> geser, that's an excellent question
<nixternal> lol, good eye there geser :)
<mterry> geser, I can only assume because they were deeply underwater at the time.  I believe it was lool's/pitti's idea, because they knew me/my work
<nixternal> dang, maybe someone needs to work on becoming a core-dev as well :)
<mterry> Honestly, MIR is a bit different skill set than MOTU, although an eye for packaging tragedies is good
<mterry> And I've only taken baby MIRs because I'm not confident
<dholbach> that could probably be announced a bit more publicly in the future
<geser> but it's still a good sign that they trust you to do MIRs
<dholbach> team changes wrt archive admins, mir people, etc.
<geser> dholbach: yes please
<dholbach> geser: any more questions?
<mterry> nixternal, core-dev is my next stop.  :)  or it's equivalent
<geser> dholbach: no more questions
<mterry> Hurry up on the motu changes.  I want to be "The Last of the MOTUs"
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Michael Terry become MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Michael Terry become MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> right, forgot that could change one of these days :)
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<jpds> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<mterry> Yay!
<dholbach> congratulations mterry!
<nixternal> mterry: congrats and welcome!
<dholbach> awesome
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<jpds> congrats mterry.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<mterry> Thanks all
<nixternal> YES! Welcome back MC? :P
<dholbach> who is going to do the honours?
<nixternal> what a busy busy summer
 * nixternal voluntells jpds 
 * nixternal goes and lets the dogs out before he gets voluntold
<dholbach> if nobody else does it, I'll do it - but I need to get the dog out before :)
<dholbach> ok... I guess I voluntold myself :)
<nixternal> yes, yes you did :P
<dholbach> thanks everybody
<dholbach> take care
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:42.
<nixternal> CONGRATS EVERYONE!!!! NOW GET TO WORK!!!!
<dholbach> haha
<mterry> :)
<czajkowski> grin
<fabrice_sp> thanks ;-)
<nixternal> pfft, Canonical workers spending time on IRC during work hours...tisk tisk
<czajkowski> nixternal: how about the other folks who spend just as much time on here avoding their work
<nixternal> czajkowski: that's what I do :)
<czajkowski> nixternal: likewise
<jcastro> Ubuntu Global Jam meeting is taking place in #ubuntu-classroom in about 2 minutes!
<cody-somerville> nixternal, For the record, I do indeed endorse mterry's MOTU application.
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-25
<pitti> hello
<czajkowski> pitti: hey
<slangasek> morning
<lool> Wee
<cjwatson> hi
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<njpatel> hello
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-09-25
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-09-25
<slangasek> in we go!
<slangasek> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<slangasek>     * cjwatson to *possibly* look at dbus on ia64
<slangasek> I'm told this is resolved
<cjwatson> yes
<slangasek> so, yay :)
<cjwatson> turned out to be easy
<slangasek> (ScottK sends his regrets for this meeting, btw, work conflict)
<slangasek> agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-09-25, for those just arriving
 * ogra is half way here
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<cr3> * Hardware testing
<cr3> We have one new bugs
<cr3> #435257 - Karmic takes forever to install on a Toshiba NB 200
<cr3> One solved bug:
<cr3> #432497 - unable to install on Acer Aspire One because of broken SSD
<cr3> And one outstanding:
<cr3> #431970 - internal microphone not working on HP Mini Bixby and Toshiba NB100
<cr3> Any Qs on bugs?
<cr3> I'm actually dismantling the Aspire One to replace the drive as we speak, so we should have results next week
<mdz> bug 435257, bug 432497, bug 431970
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435257 in linux "Karmic takes forever to install on a Toshiba NB 200" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435257
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432497 in linux "Installing Karmic 20090917 on Acer Aspire One freezes on detecting filesystems" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432497
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431970 in alsa-driver "No sound recorded on internal microphone on Toshiba NB100" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431970
<mdz> cr3, all three need triage
<cr3> mdz: will do
<slangasek> cr3: well, 435257 shouldn't have taken 2 days until the weekly release meeting to get targeted to karmic (I've just targeted it now)
<slangasek> part of the larger triage question, yes
<cr3> ok, onto specs
<cr3> * UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption
<cr3> No news.
<cr3> * UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-extended-audio-testing
<cr3> cr3 and fader to coordinate on testing a few laptops before integrating into the automated process.
<cr3> * UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-metrics-based-testing-phase-2
<cr3> On the client side, Phoronix has been integrated to run a few suites. On the server side, there were a few architectural problems but these are solved and now working on migration scripts.
<cr3> Any Qs on specs?
<mdz> cr3, no news on apport adoption?
<mdz> didn't we make a major change in that area recently (the filebug redirect)?
<pitti> we discussed that a lot in this week's desktop meeting
<cr3> mdz: I thought that was done last week, my mistake.
<pitti> right, we discussed the impact, and how to make it less strict
<mdz> cr3, I think it was, but surely there has been some activity following that?
<mdz> I would expect it to generate some discussion
<pitti> so far the consensus was to not enforce it for ~ubuntu-bugcontrol, AFAIK
<mdz> and for the QA team to be evaluating the results
<cr3> mdz: I haven't received such information in time for this meeting, my apologies :(
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-09-22 "Changed bug reporting process", FTR
<mdz> cr3, please take an action to ensure that the QA team collects and processes feedback about this change
<cr3> mdz: and where shall I follow up with this information?
<slangasek> [ACTION] cr3 to ensure that the QA team collects and processes feedback about the filebug redirect change
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cr3 to ensure that the QA team collects and processes feedback about the filebug redirect change
<mdz> cr3, ubuntu-devel seems like an appropriate choice
<cr3> mdz: will do, thanks
<pitti> cr3: bug 432088 , FYI
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432088 in malone "Disable +filebug redirection for ~ubuntu-bugcontrol" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432088
<mdz> cr3, where is the latest hardware test report?
<cr3> mdz: fader is on vacation, so I suspect his last report will date back to Wednesday. I'll try to find the url
<mdz> we should have a report at every release meeting
<mdz> even if fader happens to be away
<slangasek> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html is the permanent "current" report, which includes tests as recent as the 23rd
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html is the permanent "current" report, which includes tests as recent as the 23rd
<cr3> slangasek: thanks
<slangasek> all the failures in that table are covered by the bugs mentioned earlier; there are a handful of "untested"s with documented reasons
<mdz> we seem to still have some netbooks missing from the report
<mdz> I've written to Marjo about that already, but we need to see it fixed for the next meeting
<cr3> mdz: I'll double check the report reflects what we have in certification
<slangasek> which ones are missing?
<mdz> the report is a bit misleading because it doesn't include all of the models we're supposed to be testing for 9.10
<mdz> slangasek, off the top of my head, the mini 10v
<mdz> there's a full gap analysis in my email to marjo
<slangasek> ok
<cr3> mdz: we don't have a mini 10 though, just a 9
<mdz> cr3, exactly!
<mdz> it is a target which is not only untested, but we don't even have the hardware yet, i.e. it is way behind schedule
<slangasek> [ACTION] cr3, marjo to follow through on netbooks missing from the hw certification lab
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cr3, marjo to follow through on netbooks missing from the hw certification lab
<cr3> mdz: ah, I thought you meant we weren't reporting on the hardware we had on hand, I was scared for a bit
<mdz> cr3, no, I've requested that we report on the goals for the release
<slangasek> well, not having the hardware that needs to be tested is also scary; but we have an action item for that now, so I think we can move on?
<mdz> yes
<slangasek> anything else for QA?
<mdz> we're missing test cases for eucalyptus
<cr3> not from me
<mdz> kirkland, cjwatson, et al have worked on this a little
<mdz> I think help from the QA team would be appreciated
<cr3> mdz: will this require integration work across systems, or can it be self contained in a single standalone system for testing?
<mdz> cr3, it requires a minimum of two computers
<pitti> would two VMs suffice?
<mdz> pitti, two VMs can work for testing the installation portion only (you can't start VMs inside a VM yet)
<mdz> but they need to be connected to a common virtual LAN
<pitti> ah, of course
<mdz> the setup is non-trivial in either case
<davmor2> mdz: I can do some work on that I'll have a chat with cjwatson and kirkland as too what they need
<mdz> which is why we need a clear documented test plan
<cr3> mdz: I'm afraid this will be difficult to automate for the karmic cycle
<mdz> cr3, I am not looking for automation
<slangasek> we're not looking for automation, we're looking for documentation
<cr3> excellent, just checkin
<mdz> we need to create a test plan before we can even think about automation
<mdz> davmor2, thank you
<mdz> davmor2, do you have two computers you can use for this testing?
<cr3> this use case will be good for discussion during the next uds for automation
<davmor2> 6
<mdz> davmor2, ok, please work with ttx on this
<davmor2> mdz: 6 but 4 on lan
<davmor2> mdz: np
<slangasek> [ACTION] davmor2 to work with ttx on creating a test plan for eucalyptus
<MootBot> ACTION received:  davmor2 to work with ttx on creating a test plan for eucalyptus
<mdz> he can point you to the existing documentation and forward test reports showing our current methodology
<slangasek> davmor2: thanks for stepping forward
<mdz> nothing more from me for QA
<slangasek> anyone else?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<slangasek> pitti: hello
<pitti> as usual, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus has all the details
<pitti> This week we finally got the Karmic artwork from the Design team, and integrated the new icon theme, wallpaper, and usplash logo.
<pitti> The session and messaging indicators landed a lot of urgent fixes and are in good shape for beta now. Empathy also got some bug fixing love; audio calls are now working reasonably stable, video is still brittle (currently being debugged).
<pitti> We fixed 5 RC bugs, and got two new ones.
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> I just heared that we probably need to squeeze a new gdm artwork into beta, will chat with slangasek about that after meeting
<slangasek> ok
<pitti> for final I'd like to finish the polkit-1 migration, so that we don't need to carry the old polkit stack in the default installation any more
<slangasek> what remains to be converted there?
<pitti> this should be relatively easy to do, but doesn't quite count as "bug fixing"
<pitti> slangasek: screen-resolutions-extra is one
<slangasek> (we can take that offline to #ubuntu-release after, if you wish)
<pitti> the other is checkbox
<pitti> checkbox doesn't "really" use polkit
<pitti> I opened a bug and sub'ed cr3, I'd like to discuss it with him first
<pitti> slangasek: yes, let's
<pitti> too much detail for this meeting here
<pitti> any questions?
<pitti> oh, and of course the most critical bug EVER has been fixed: the nm-applet icon for ethernet which looked like a stray pacman ghost :-)
<ogra> \o/
<slangasek> <cough> hearts
<pitti> Riddelll said that polkit-qt-1 won't make it, so we probalby have to live with bug 256245
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 256245 in kpackagekit "Kubuntu GUI package manager does not warn if packages are unsigned" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/256245
<slangasek> that's an o-o-b discussion, though ;)
<pitti> slangasek: hearts> already fixed
<slangasek> ok
<pitti> slangasek: alex did a followup upload which pretty much changes it back to "normal"
<pitti> no hearts for us, sorry
<slangasek> pitti: could you go ahead and mark 256245 as 'wontfix' for karmic w/ explanation, then?
<pitti> slangasek: will do
<slangasek> no sense in tracking it if we know it's blocked on other bits
<slangasek> any other questions from Desktop?
<slangasek> s/from/for/
<pitti> (done)
<Riddelll> I need to check the upgrade script for Kubuntu some more
<Riddelll> tseliot just fixed the intel-crash-on-logout bug which is great, although we now have another bug with KDM
<Riddelll> otherwise Kubuntu is in decent shape
<slangasek> great
<pitti> I'm still testing jockey
<pitti> Apport works for me now
<pitti> (in KNE)
<Riddelll> jockey worked for me, once I gave it network
<pitti> ok, cool
<slangasek> pitti: what's still beta wrt desktop-karmic-gnome-speech-replacement?
<pitti> slangasek: it still needs a test plan/release note AFAIK
<slangasek> ok
<pitti> similar for the other specs
<pitti> it's by and large "testing", "test plan", etc.
<slangasek> seems like we'd want to have those for beta
<slangasek> are we likely to have them?
<pitti> ok, will make sure that we will have them
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
<pitti> ACTION: pitti to ensure that we have test plans/release ntoes for all specs
<davidbarth> As usual, the status report is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<slangasek> [ACTION] pitti to ensure that we have test plans/release notes for all specs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to ensure that we have test plans/release notes for all specs
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> mostly bug fixes
<davidbarth> of note
<davidbarth> indicator-session gained a user session menu to switch to open new session; that was in fusa/jaunty though
 * slangasek nods
<davidbarth> also support for locking the session on suspend/user-switch
<davidbarth> that may help with #407315
<davidbarth> xsplash was impacted by recent gdm patches for autologin
<davidbarth> so we now have a nasty flicker; we've decided to work on that once the beta is out, to get a good baseline for a fina lset of fixes
<davidbarth> the list of bugs on our radar is on the report
<davidbarth> of note: #435522 - "xsplash timing out too early"
<pitti> ^ especially on live system
<davidbarth> #433719 - "indicator-applet crashed with SIGSEGV in g_str_hash()"
<davidbarth> pitti: yep...
<davidbarth> #430904 - Menu ordering gets "out of whack"
<davidbarth> and a new unr crasher: #420478 - "netbook-launcher crashed with SIGSEGV in g_cclosure_marshal_VO..."
<davidbarth> that njpatel is furiously working on
<lool> Thanks for the nice bug fix releases along the week BTW
<davidbarth> questions on DX?
<Riddelll> in Kubuntu: agatau fixed a bug in kmail MI and I had to work around konversation not compiling with MI support (agateau to find a proper fix), so we're in decent shape.
<davidbarth> Riddelll: yes, thanks for pointing this out
<slangasek> davidbarth: please make sure that your release-targeted bugs get targeted to the release in launchpad (you can grab me or any other ubuntu dev to target them); that prevents us having two different lists that we're watching for "critical" bugs
<Riddelll> KDM could do with upstart-ification at some point post-beta, nixternal has a script done already but needs keybuk and me to look over, but I believe our ksplashx stuff should work fine after that
<davidbarth> slangasek: ok
<slangasek> Riddelll: post-beta, not pre-beta?
<cjwatson> I was wondering that too
<cjwatson> not being upstartified presents some ... significant challenges to the installer
<cjwatson> although I must admit that the "Install Kubuntu" option appears to actually work in today's image
<Riddelll> well I could upload it quickly today, but I've not had a chance to test it yet
<pitti> also, it's quite an intrusive change which could use the testing in beta?
<slangasek> Riddelll: I can review it in the queue and poke Scott in person if I have doubts
<Riddelll> and keybuk doesn't seem to be around to check with
<slangasek> Riddelll: so I would favor having it uploaded today
<pitti> I guess he's travelling back from LinuxCon
<Riddelll> ok I'll get testing on it now
<slangasek> AFAIK he's still /at/ plumbers :)
<pitti> oh, ok; last plumbers was Tue-Thu
<pitti> anyway
<pitti> wrong, Wed-Fri
<slangasek> anything else for DX?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<lool> hey
<ogra> here i am !
<slangasek> hello
<ogra> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogra> - Various bugs were fixed this week, good work was done to identify the armel openoffice breakage, workaround in progress
<ogra> - work on moblin is ongoing, images build again
<ogra> - UNR still in good shape even after lots of updates (we're making ourselves jobless here, should consider to add some artificial brekage :P )
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogra> - closed spec on rootstock (offline-installer-gui)
<ogra> - closed specs for marvell and freescale desktops
 * ogra cant mention often enough how grateful we are for doko being with us on openoffice !
<cjwatson> yes, he's been hoovering up a lot of toolchain stuff this week
<ogra> and keeping all armel HW in the company busy with testbuilds :)
<ogra> and i mean *all*
<slangasek> is there an OOo workaround known now?
<lool> Yes
<pitti> \o/
<lool> binutils' change has been identified
<slangasek> the last workaround doko suggested was "ship a copy of old binutils with the OOo source package" :)
<slangasek> ah, much better :)
<ogra> heh
<lool> I think we can revert it and rebuild oo.o
 * pitti updates that on DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
 * ogra guesses doko isnt happy having that sentence in the logs :P
<lool> Sadly, the binutils change is likely exposing a bug in another place
<lool> So we'll be hiding the real issue
<slangasek> ok; but we're at least closer
<ogra> but oo.o will run on armel
<doko> no  OOo b-d on binutils-source, nobody will notice the extra build time ;p
<lool> slangasek: yes; instead of knowing it's a toolchain change, we know now which part and which change
<pitti> doko: gentoobuntu?
<doko> genTOOobuntu
<cjwatson> :-)
<lool> haha
<slangasek> lool: I see bug #430277 marked as "discussion ongoing" in the status report
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430277 in unr-meta "ubuntuone icon is colorful while the other panel icons are dark" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430277
<lool> slangasek: So I escalated that bug via phone to design team on Monday evening
<slangasek> lool: what's holding up bringing this to a conclusion?
<lool> They wanted to chat with Mark about it and others
<lool> and I pinged them again over email today
<ogra> "the theme will be improved"
<rickspencer3> presumably this issue now effects the desktop as well
<ogra> discussion about *how* :)
<pitti> will U1 get gray as well?
<lool> slangasek: We need to know whether we want coloured icons for everything notification area, or always black and white (runtime desaturation) or a miw (what we have)
<pitti> everything else is now
<slangasek> lool: ok, have they been given a deadline for that to happen, so we're not trying to land these changes e.g., the week of RC?
<lool> pitti: Exactly the problem
<lool> pitti: many icons are visible only from time to time
<lool> such as tomboy, rhythmbox, bluetooth...
<rickspencer3> I feel that if it's a simple matter of changing to a thematically matching icon, we may as well get that in asap
<lool> Not really
<rickspencer3> but if it's about dynamically displaying different icons in different situations, then it's out of scope for Karmic
<lool> I think the proper fix is to either use colours or to runtime transform the icons
<rickspencer3> and we should stick with what he have and ship
<lool> I dont think we can live with all icons being b&w because it's too hard to distinguish them, and the mix is ugly
<rickspencer3> lool, right, my point is that it's too late to discussing "run time" fixes
<lool> rickspencer3: Well instead of patching a bunch of icons we'd be patching code
<lool> rickspencer3: Not sure why you feel it's harder
<rickspencer3> lool, my point exactly
<rickspencer3> because beta freeze was *yesterday* and it's time to stop making changes and fix crashers
<lool> Problem is that we dont have a finite list of icons
<lool> You can install any app
<rickspencer3> imnsho
<lool> rickspencer3: Ah you mean like not changing icon theme?  :-)
<slangasek> patching icons would still present its own problems, in being able to make sure the right users get the right icons
<rickspencer3> I mean, for the desktop anyway, I feel it's too late to fix this bug, as there is no clear direction, and we need to channel resources to the Karmic end game
<lool> I think the easiest fix is to revert the notification area icons to colours in humanity
<lool> it's a clearly identified change and I think they have a colour version already
<rickspencer3> the easiest thing is to change nothing and live with the way it is for Karmic
<slangasek> wasn't really meaning to open a fresh discussion about this here, though; just trying to make sure we're on track for resolving this issue
<slangasek> since the bug has been open for some time now with no visible progress
<lool> This bug triggered my proposal to drop humanity in UNR which triggered the move to humanity in the desktop  :-(
<lool> anyway, status quo is ugly but not breaking anything and design team has been pinged
<slangasek> hmm
<rickspencer3> slangasek, who gets to make the call in terms of it being "too late" ?
<slangasek> rickspencer3: the artwork deadline was yesterday; it's already late
<rickspencer3> so I propose we close the bug as "won't fix" and take it up in Lucid UDS
<slangasek> as regards "too late", any further changes are going to have to be discussed with the release team
<slangasek> rickspencer3: well, my understanding is that the current result looks half-cooked; I'm not keen to ship that way either
<lool> slangasek: I'll get back to you if I hear either way from the design team
<lool> slangasek: I can ask humanity upstream to prepare a colour revert if you like
<lool> I mean going back to colourful icons
<slangasek> lool: I think it makes sense to have that lined up
<lool> Ok
<rickspencer3> thanks lool - I presume the desktop will be expected to follow suit
<lool> Plus humanity folks are not busy with many more changes at this point any way
<slangasek> [ACTION] lool to ask humanity upstream to prepare a colour revert for bug #430277
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to ask humanity upstream to prepare a colour revert for bug #430277
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430277 in unr-meta "ubuntuone icon is colorful while the other panel icons are dark" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430277
<lool> rickspencer3: we share the theme package now, so you will automatically
<slangasek> anything else on the mobile side?
<pitti> we'll ping the doc team for screen shot updates when that comes
<ogra> we're happy
<slangasek> pitti: better to warn them in advance that it may be coming, I think, so they don't waste time on screenshots they'll have to throw away?
<pitti> slangasek: agreed
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<lool> slangasek, ogra: thanks
<slangasek> pgraner: morning
<slangasek> apw: here?
<davidm> slangasek, pgraner is on a plane now I think
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> any kernel concerns that anyone else needs to bring up?
<mdz> pgraner is on a plane, but said he would be online
<ogra> a bunch ... for imx51, but nothing that wasnt mentioned in mobile already
<slangasek> bug list seems self-explanatory; including some that I talked through with the kernel team in person this week
<mdz> slangasek, I wanted to make sure that linux-ec2 (source, binary, meta) get into main for beta
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to get linux-ec2 into main for beta
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to get linux-ec2 into main for beta
<slangasek> mdz: looks like the meta's the only thing not there currently
<slangasek> but yes, I'll follow through
<mdz> slangasek, ok
<mdz> it should be in the new uec seed, and so show up in component mismatches
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> yes, it's in c-m
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> ttx: hi
<mdz> I'm afraid ttx and I haven't synced up yet due to eucalyptus chaos, but I have a few agenda items here to add
<slangasek> ok, please go ahead
<mdz> first the MIRs for ec2-images
<ttx> o/
<mdz> it looks like several have been completed this week
<ttx> mdz: I kinda updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<cjwatson> unless I'm missing something, m2crypto is the only one left
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<mdz> cjwatson, ah, I'd missed that ec2-init was 'fix committed' (what does that mean for an MIR?)
<cjwatson> it means approved
<mdz> bug 434744 is the master bug for the fact that the uec images were not main-pure
<cjwatson> but there are still unpromoted dependencies so I was holding off actually promoting it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434744 in ubuntu "ec2 and uec images contain packages not in main" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434744
<cjwatson> kees requested a change in m2crypto
<mdz> cjwatson, are there MIRs for the dependencies already?
<kees> i'd like to see the testsuite enabled, but beyond that, I'm ok with it
<cjwatson> although said that he was fine with it going into main on the condition that the bug remains RC
<cjwatson> or words to that effect
 * kees nods
<cjwatson> hmm, actually, ec2-init doesn't dep m2crypto
<cjwatson> I thought it did for some reason
<mdz> I assumed it was python-boto
<pitti> the fixed ec2-init isn't uploaded yet
<mdz> smoser, status of ec2-init?
<pitti> the one in bzr head is okay
<pitti> the one in the archive really shouldn't go anywhere near main
<slangasek> euca2ools dep: python-m2crypto
<cjwatson> does ec2-init need a sponsor or something?
<mdz> I don't know, need input from smoser
<mdz> I tried to reach him a few times this week but have had trouble getting hold of him
<pitti> I talked to smoser yesterday, but he didn't mention uploading/sponsoring
<pitti> we just talked about the actual changes needed
<pitti> soren: can you help here?
<cjwatson> I've promoted m2crypto
<pitti> in terms of review/sponsoring/testing ec2-init?
<smoser> mdz, soren is good with my changes and is trying to incorporate and will get a new version in karmic
<mdz> soren is away, I'll need someone else to pick that up
<ttx> mdz: zul can do that.
<mdz> ttx, ok, please confirm that he will do it today
<ttx> mdz: he's been watching the MIRs to see them to completion;
<mdz> ttx, can zul also take care of the test suite in m2crypto?
<zul> yeah I will do it today
<slangasek> [ACTION] zul to get new ec2-init sorted today
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to get new ec2-init sorted today
<mdz> cjwatson, odd, euca2ools was already in main
<cjwatson> mdz: yes, I promoted it before noticing that it had an unpromoted dep
<mdz> so with m2crypto promoted, and ec2-init getting promoted today, that should be the last of it
<cjwatson> and decided it didn't matter so much since we knew we were going to do it anyway
<mdz> remaining EC2 bugs are at
<mdz> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ec2-images
<cjwatson> it's been whining at us in karmic_probs for a bit
<mdz> one outstanding item I don't think we have a bug for on that list...switching vmbuilder to use seed tasks rather than the hardcoded package list for karmic
<mdz> do we want to attempt that for beta?
<cjwatson> I thought that was committed
<mdz> branch?
<cjwatson> you committed it, did you not?
<cjwatson> that was the one I sent a patch for
<mdz> no, I committed the seed change
<mdz> smoser, have you tested the vmbuilder patch?
<cjwatson> oh, you just said "thanks for the patch", I took that as meaning you'd committed it :)
<smoser> i've not done that. i can do it. is there a bug for that explicitly ?
<smoser> i have to verify that the uec seed has my latest adds to the package list (linux-virtual and linux-ec2)
<mdz> smoser, it does
<cjwatson> mdz: the seed doesn't include libc6-i686, but the bug we were trying to fix (bug 427288) says that we need both libc6-i686 and libc6-xen
<cjwatson> is this an error?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427288 in vm-builder "Karmic i386 EC2 kernel emulating unsupported memory accesses" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427288
<mdz> smoser, please test the vmbuilder patch, compare the installed package list in the image, and if it looks OK, commit
<slangasek> libc6-i686 is wanted on UEC; libc6-xen is wanted on EC2
<mdz> since we're using one image for both, we need both
<cjwatson> ok, is it harmful to have both?
<mdz> cjwatson, I just applied your patch
<mdz> smoser, should we add both to the seed?
<slangasek> cjwatson: nope
<slangasek> (now that this bug is fixed, anyway :)
<cjwatson> mdz: yeah, I was just going from what was in vm-builder
<cjwatson> I'll add libc6-i686 to the seed
<mdz> cjwatson, thanks
<cjwatson> (done)
<slangasek> [ACTION] smoser to test vmbuilder patch to use germinate
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smoser to test vmbuilder patch to use germinate
<smoser> well, wait. libc6-xen can only be added on i387
<smoser> i386
<smoser> can that be done with a seed ?
<cjwatson> yes
<slangasek> yes
<mdz> smoser, yes
<cjwatson> I just did
<smoser> perfect.
<smoser> then i'll test.
<cjwatson> note that it will be a bit over an hour before the Task field for libc6-i686 in the archive is updated, but you can test the rest of it before then
<mdz> smoser, isn't bug 429169 fixed by installing linux-ec2?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429169 in vm-builder "ec2: Include kernel modules in AMIs" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429169
<smoser> yes.
<mdz> smoser, Fix Committed then?
<smoser> its fix-committed in vmbuilder.
<mdz> other targeted bugs for ec2:
<mdz> bug 431103
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431103 in ec2-init "ssh host key fingerprint no longer available in the console log" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431103
<mdz> bug 423297
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423297 in launchpad-code "Search overlay is too small when choosing a merge target" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423297
<mdz> bug 414997
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 414997 in ec2-init "ec2-set-defaults should be 'run_once_per_ami'" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/414997
<mdz> er
<mdz> bug 423497
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423497 in vm-builder "Sudoers file is misconfigured in AMI ami-5059be39" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423497
<smoser> zul is working on 431103, and believes he'll have something for kernel team later today.
<mdz> bug 431255
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431255 in ec2-init "ec2-init: Move ec2-run-user-data to startup priority S99" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431255
<mdz> is there actually a kernel upload planned for beta?
<mdz> smoser, are any of the above bugs not going to be fixed today?
<pitti> hm, we just had one last night? (kernel upload)
<smoser> zul has been working on 431103 and has something to go to kernel team later today
<cjwatson> I'd like to know when the last kernel upload will be so that I can build d-i, certainly ...
<mdz> smoser, is it a blocker for beta or not?
<smoser> i actually dont know where soren is on 414997 (run-once-per-ami)
<mdz> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.tag=ec2-images
<smoser> sudoers (423497) is fixed in vmbuilder trunk
<lool> (I personally would love to know whether the ARM kernels will get a merge from main kernel and an upload too)
<lool> And I expect linux-ec2 needs one too
<smoser> 431255 (S99 user data) is next on the todo list for today
<mdz> smoser, 431103 is open on ec2-init, but you're saying it's actually a kernel problem? if so, please move it to the linux package
<cjwatson> hmm, new kernels in binary new
 * cjwatson processes
<mdz> who can help smoser get his vmbuilder changes into the archive today?
<smoser> mdz, 431103 is a big deal, it absolutely has to be fixed. but whether or not it blocks beta i dont know.
<lool> happy to sponsor
<mdz> smoser, IIRC you said most people don't even seem to know that the key is visible on the console ;-)
<slangasek> I'm also available to help with vmbuilder sponsorship
<cjwatson> me if nobody else, but I'll be out from 1700 UTC to c. 2100 UTC
<lool> or perhaps someone in his TZ
<lool> slangasek: Ok I take the first shift  :-)
<mdz> smoser, please send me an email confirming status at the end of the day
<mdz> anything else on EC2?
<smoser> mdz, yes, i've said that, and its true. but the fact that no  one cares about security doesn't mean it doens't have to be secure
<mdz> smoser, I think that means it can miss beta
<smoser> regarding vmbuilder changes... they dont *have* to be in the archive. we're building the nighly builds with trunk vmbuilder. so they get the changes.
<mdz> can someone follow up with the kernel team re: refreshing ARM and EC2 kernels as lool mentioned?
<mdz> smoser, oh, then that can wait until next week I guess
<lool> Does someone sync with pgraner later today?
<mdz> rtg is here at plumbers
<mdz> pgraner is on a plane and I don't know if I will speak to him today
<lool> Perhaps someone at plumbers can talk to rtg?
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up with the kernel team wrt ARM, EC2 kernel refreshes for beta
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up with the kernel team wrt ARM, EC2 kernel refreshes for beta
<lool> thanks
<slangasek> probably more effective to do that in person, yes
<mdz> slangasek, just to be clear, I don't know of any urgent need to refresh the EC2 kernel for beta, only a vague worry that it might be concealing regressions
<mdz> but I would like to know what their general strategy is wrt keeping those packages up to date, since it doesn't seem to be "update them whenever the trunk changes"
<mdz> can we move on to eucalyptus?
<slangasek> mdz: right, I want a consistent set of kernel packages for beta, not have half of them lagging behind the current upstream release...
<ttx> Euclyptus tracked bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=eucalyptus
<slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=eucalyptus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=eucalyptus
<mdz> ok, eucalyptus
<mdz> unfortunately I don't think this list is complete
<mdz> there are a lot of untriaged bugs on the eucalyptus source package as well
<mdz> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus
<mdz> this is in very bad shape at the moment in terms of beta
<mdz> we are going to be putting in extra hours I'm sure
<ttx> mdz: I'll try to sync with nurmi later to see what failed in my cloud install.
<mdz> there were several tests done overnight which identified new bugs
<mdz> there seem to be problems with the cloud installer, with the eucalyptus packages, and with eucalyptus upstream
<mdz> I haven't processed all of the mail on this overnight, and it is changing rapidly
<cjwatson> I'd appreciate somebody reviewing the eucalyptus package in unapproved
<mdz> the one I uploaded?
<cjwatson> the one I uploaded following yours (which you apparently didn't upload to anything other than a PPA)
<cjwatson> Dustin and I fixed four additional bugs over the two you fixed
<mdz> cjwatson, I uploaded it to a PPA first and then to the archive later, or at least that's what I intended
<pitti> looking
<cjwatson> either it didn't make it to the archive, or it was rejected
<pitti> cjwatson's version includes both
<cjwatson> anyway, my upload includes yours, assuming you didn't have anything uncommitted to bzr
<mdz> bah
<kirkland> i didn't see it make the archive, but i was unsure, so i bumped the version and marked unreleased for my 3 fixes
<mdz> cjwatson, nothing uncommitted to bzr, no
<mdz> does cjwatson's upload include kirkland's changes?
<cjwatson> yes
<pitti> three changes from him, yes
<mdz> ok, we need to get that in and building ASAP
<mdz> and new server ISOs with it
<cjwatson> I think that fixes all the identified beta-critical installer issues
<mdz> great
<mdz> which leaves the eucalyptus packaging and upstream issues
<cjwatson> slight emphasis on think there
<mdz> cjwatson, have you done a test install with it?
<cjwatson> no
<mdz> I suffered yesterday trying to hand-hack an iso to test it
<cjwatson> I'll be back later tonight and can do a test install
<ttx> mdz: what packaging fixes are you thinking about ?
<slangasek> trigger set for another server ISO w/ the pending eucalyptus
<mdz> ttx, getting auto registration working? fixing those incorrect dependencies?
<mdz> triaging that long list of bugs on the package
<mdz> slangasek, thanks
<cjwatson> which incorrect dependencies?
<cjwatson> dustin fixed the dhcp one
<mdz> bug 435130
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435130 in eucalyptus "Default MANAGED-NOVLAN network setting not being applied properly" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435130
<ttx> ok.
<mdz> kirkland, any luck with bug 432154?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432154 in qemu-kvm "dynamic block device attach/detach not functional with karmic KVM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432154
<cjwatson> oh, that thing, ugh
<pitti> eucalyptus accepted
<mdz> he said yesterday that he had a fix for it, just needed to change the kvm invocation
<mdz> is that by any chance in his eucalyptus changes?
<cjwatson> no
<mdz> ok, that's beta-critical
<cjwatson> I have to go in 17 minutes at the latest, and ideally need to have a bit of getting-ready-to-go-out time before that
<mdz> I don't know anything about bug 385435
<kirkland> mdz: it works for me with driver='scsi' or driver='virtio'
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 385435 in eucalyptus "In MANAGED mode, with CLC and CC on same host, on first boot of CLC, Walrus URL is detected as 169.254.169.254" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/385435
<kirkland> mdz: they're using driver='phy'
<kirkland> mdz: waiting on nurmi to verify
<mdz> kirkland: I don't know the implications of that. will it be fixed today?
<kirkland> mdz: jdstrand found that if he tried to attach/detach 28 times, it would fail
<kirkland> mdz: i don't know
<jdstrand> fwiw, it works for me with usb too
<mdz> I desperately need someone to triage https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus
<mdz> kirkland, can you do that today?
<kirkland> mdz: triage 50ish bugs ... is this higher priority than getting our cloud in the suite running?
<jdstrand> kirkland: actually, I was using nurmi's test case almost exactly, and it was working here. I'm not sure that attach is broken anymore (other than the 28 times issue I discovered this morning)
<mdz> kirkland, I don't think I can answer that until I get through the emails from dan and thierry
<mdz> but it needs to be done today, otherwise we don't know where we stand
<kirkland> jdstrand: i agree that i don't think anything is actually "broken", i think it's a matter of usage
<kirkland> mdz: agreed
<kirkland> mdz: okay, i'll triage those today
<jdstrand> 'phy' with attach-device works... we need feedback from nurmi
<mdz> thank you
<ttx> kirkland: I'll try to spend a few evening cycles on that with you
<mdz> anything else urgent on eucalyptus we haven't discussed here?
<ttx> mdz: yes
<ttx> I spent most of the day trying to make sure we had all the beta-critical bugs filed
<ttx> basically running through the install and making it work
<mdz> what's the URL for the list of those bugs?
<ttx> I'm almost there, will debug what's left with nurmi tonight...
<ttx> and file what is not due to my own stupidity or test setup
<ttx> I didn't encounter anything new.
<ttx> The only thing is that MANAGED-NOVLAN routing issue I need to debug first
<ttx> and some booting errors I need to test the latest UEC image against
<mdz> ok
<ttx> I also will reinstall tomorrow with the daily CD
<ttx> to confirm the fixes.
<mdz> we'll continue testing here in portland as well
<slangasek> does that cover us for eucalyptus, then (and for server)?
<ttx> I need to go now anyway, to negociate evening work with wife ;)
<mdz> slangasek, such as it is :-/
<mdz> it's an area of great concern right now
<mdz> and I can't be sure yet that we've covered all of the critical issues even. we'll see what comes out of that triage pass today
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> I have to go I'm afraid, slangasek has my foundations update
<mdz> sorry to have taken up so much time with server
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
<jdstrand> o/
<slangasek> kees: here?
<slangasek> jdstrand: hello
<kees> jdstrand is doing it today
<jdstrand> slangasek: I'll lead today
<slangasek> ok
<kees> I'm here to fill in any details
<slangasek> there were just two bugs that bubbled up as needing attention release-wise
<slangasek> bug #429872, bug #131976
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429872 in tcpdump "/sbin/apparmor_parser: ... Profile doesn't conform to protocol" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429872
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 131976 in casper "apparmor doesn't work on stacked file system (livecd) -- DHCP/cups/others fail to start" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131976
<jdstrand> kees has decided to work on bug #429872
<jdstrand> Progress is ongoing (cosmetic, not for beta)
<jdstrand> kees added apparmor to the initramfs to avoid races where binaries with profiles could be started before apparmor (and thus run unconfined). This inadvertently reintroduced bug #131976 for karmic, which he fixed in 2.3.1+1403-0ubuntu22. This was accepted several hours ago
<pitti> second bug is in karmic
<pitti> ... fix
<jdstrand> as for other stuff
<jdstrand> noisy console output from ufw is fixed in 0.29-4ubuntu1. kees uploaded a fix for noisy apparmor console output (bug #435285), but not totally resolved. fix by kees in Vcs, cosmetic, not for beta
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435285 in apparmor "apparmor log message on booting" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435285
<jdstrand> mdeslaur fixed important apparmor userspace bugs (bug #427966 and bug #431929). With these fixes, apparmor should be in good shape
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427966 in apparmor "aa-logprof doesn't handle "open" log entries" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427966
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431929 in apparmor "libapparmor doesn't parse ouid" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431929
<jdstrand> I worked on libvirt/apparmor integration bugs and believe they should now all be fixed in 0.7.0-1ubuntu8:
<jdstrand> bug #432581 bug #435527 bug #432810
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432581 in libvirt "[karmic] libvirt/apparmor breaks non-default serial, console, kernel and initrd" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432581
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435527 in libvirt "[regression] apparmor profile not updated on attach and detach of devices" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435527
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432810 in libvirt "apparmor_parser fails on certain paths in profile" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432810
<jdstrand> some of my investigation into attach/detach led to progress on bug #432154. my testing of that bug shows it may no longer be a problem (as mentioned)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432154 in qemu-kvm "dynamic block device attach/detach not functional with karmic KVM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432154
<jdstrand> the above combined should completely fix bug #431090, which no longer needs (or has) a workaround. I've asked eucalyptus upstream to also fully test and get back to me if there are any problems. They agreed and are doing so (no new problems reported so far wrt apparmor integration)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431090 in libvirt "libvirt apparmor profile is preventing libvirt from running eucalyptus VMs" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431090
<jdstrand> kees pinged Tresys about selinux bug #434084 and they are looking into it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434084 in refpolicy-ubuntu "SE Linux not enabled" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434084
<jdstrand> One regression-potential bug remains: bug #436221 (firefox-3.5 jaunty -> karmic upgrade). Fix for this and a few profiling refinements is pending. talked to asac this morning-- he will merge
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436221 in firefox-3.5 "apparmor profile is not disabled on upgrade from jaunty firefox-3.5" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436221
<jdstrand> In terms of features, mdeslaur got his apache2 FFe bug #430812 in before Beta. everything else is same as last week
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430812 in apparmor "FFE: new apache2 apparmor profile" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430812
<mdz> I'm finding it hard to pick out which of the above bugs are open
<jdstrand> mdz: 434084 (selinux)
<jdstrand> 435285 (apparmor console output)
<jdstrand> 429872 (apparmor Profile doesn't conform to protocol)
<slangasek> jdstrand, kees: yes, in the future it would be helpful if the report could be limited to those issues that are outstanding and regarded as critical for release
<jdstrand> 436221 (firefox-3.5 jaunty -> karmic upgrade)
<jdstrand> slangasek: sure-- we are new to this. I've already made a note to create https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<mdz> jdstrand, thanks
<kees> slangasek: ok, noted.  afaict 434084 (selinux) is in universe, so not a beta blocker. 435285 and 429872 are cosmetic and not beta blockers.  jdstrand is 436221 considered a blocker?
<jdstrand> kees: I think 436221 doesn't bite today, but will as soon as 3.5.3 is released, and that my happen while beta isos are available for people
<slangasek> please target/milestone that bug accordingly
<jdstrand> it requires a jaunty user have ff35 installed, 3.5.3 is uploaded to the archive for -security, then the user upgrades to beta
<jdstrand> if that is an acceptable risk, the bug can be a non-blocker
<kees> slangasek: I've adjusted 434084 435285 429872 to be non-beta.
<slangasek> jdstrand: I would prefer we get that bug fixed
<jdstrand> slangasek: it is committed in bzr, and a merge proposed
<slangasek> especially as it seems the fix is already known
<jdstrand> slangasek: talked to asac this morning and he is committing it. I'll get with him to upload it
<slangasek> thanks
<ace_suares> hello, edubuntu meeting here??
<slangasek> any other concerns on security release-wise?
<ace_suares> #startmeeting
<MootBot> ace_suares, There is already a meeting in progress.
<ace_suares> oh
<jdstrand> slangasek: I don't have anything
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> ace_suares: sorry, the Ubuntu release meeting is running long; we'll try to wrap up ASAP
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<ace_suares> okay no worries edubuntu meeting will probably have low attendence. Take your time.
<slangasek> jdstrand: thanks for the report
<slangasek> as cjwatson had to leave, he braindumped to me beforehand
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<slangasek> bug status updated on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic; a number of bugs from the agenda were already fixed
<slangasek> who wants to be responsible for bug 412437? it's on the foundations list on the agenda, but it's in universe and tagged ct-rev, so I don't think it should be
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 412437 in kgrubeditor "kgrubeditor does not support GRUB 2" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/412437
<slangasek> about half of the major outstanding boot bugs fixed this week; progress continues on the rest
<slangasek> one major installation bug left, IMO (bug 431786, clock reset after partitions are created), which is fixable by beta; otherwise, current tests have been moderately reassuring for the most part
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431786 in ubiquity "auto-resize fails due to fsck error on superblock" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431786
<slangasek> lots of usb-creator work this week, especially landing PolicyKit support
<slangasek> UbuntuSpec:software-library: now in by default, although not without naming controversy ... Michael has been working hard on bugs here
<slangasek> UbuntuSpec:foundations-karmic-bootspeed-targets: now in bug-fixing stage
<slangasek> UbuntuSpec:foundations-karmic-oemconfig: done as far as we're going to for karmic; some work carries over to lucid
<slangasek> UbuntuSpec:foundations-karmic-wubi: feature work deferred; however it at least now works for me again (woohoo), although Agostino is still having some GRUB problems which appear not to be universal
<slangasek> plus personally I've been hoiked into eucalyptus fire-fighting so am a bit behind on bugs
<slangasek> EOF
<slangasek> Riddelll: I noted to cjwatson that for 412437, I had suggested removing the package; he agrees in principle, but wants it cleared by Kubuntu folks first
<slangasek> Riddelll: do you have an opinion?
<pitti> naming controversy> now being renamed to software-center
<slangasek> AIUI the kgrubeditor package is perpetually broken, and isn't present in Debian either
<Riddelll> slangasek: yeah I guess that has to go
<slangasek> Riddelll: ok - could you ack it in the bug, and I can schedule removal?
<Riddelll> done
<slangasek> pitti: I spoke with Keybuk yesterday, and he has a set of final ubuntu-boot fixes to land for beta which he won't be able to upload until Tuesday European time (because he's in the air on Monday)
<slangasek> pitti: will you be available to review those in the unapproved queue and get them in that day, so they can land ASAP?
<pitti> ok, I'll make sure to review them as quickly as possible
<pitti> yes, absolutely
<pitti> and trigger CD builds when they are in
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> (I haven't seen the changes in question yet, of course, so please review them to make sure they're freeze-suitable - I just know they're coming and are supposed to fix bugs we need fixed)
<pitti> of course
<slangasek> any questions for foundations?
<pitti> what could possibly break.. :-P
<slangasek> heh
 * pitti reviews and accepts ec2-init
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
 * sistpoty|work waves
<sistpoty|work> ftbfs is still a major concern
 * slangasek nods
<sistpoty|work> fixes trickle in at at too low rate imo
<sistpoty|work> others than that FFe request seem to have come down a little bit this week
<sistpoty|work> I guess that's it from my side
<slangasek> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html
<slangasek> that's the current ftbfs report, right?
<sistpoty|work> right
<sistpoty|work> it now has fixed packages marked as superseeded :)
<slangasek> ok, cool
<sistpoty|work> thanks to wgrant!
<slangasek> has this list been pointed to on ubuntu-devel?
<sistpoty|work> not too sure actually, I don't think so
<slangasek> I can include a mention in my next u-d-a "here's what we need to do" mail, but in the meantime a post to u-d is probably a good idea?
<sistpoty|work> slangasek: excellent! :)
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> anything else?
<sistpoty|work> oh, cjwatson fixed ia64 :)
<sistpoty|work> apart from that, nothing from my side
<slangasek> ok
<ogra> slangasek, given that edubuntu just rna in here and that they start to have a proper release again, they should get a spot in this meeting from lucid on imho
<ogra> *ran
<ogra> not sure it makes sense this round anymore ... LaserJock ?
<slangasek> ogra: no, we don't need any more context switches in the meeting than we already have; problems affecting edubuntu should be brought up with the relevant teams, or brought up ad-hoc
 * sistpoty|work gotta run now... cya
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:21.
<ogra> slangasek, ok
<lool> slangasek: thanks
<ace_suares> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:21. The chair is ace_suares.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> anyway, let's clear the floor so that edubuntu can have their meeting :)
<pitti> thanks all
<slangasek> ace_suares: sorry, thanks for your patience
<slangasek> and thanks, all
<ace_suares> no problem
<ace_suares> let the release rock !
<LaserJock> ace_suares: agenda?
<ace_suares> [Topic] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<ace_suares> I think there is no agenda other then the usual weekly reports stuff. We can add:
<ace_suares> - Release DVD; Wiki; Sabayon; Handbook;
<ace_suares> anything else?
<ace_suares> PRESENT
<LaserJock> I'd like to discuss a tad bit about the EC
<LaserJock> concerning the email I sent regarding Requests for Consideration (to borrow a Debian term)
<ace_suares> yeah cool. One more: rmeeting rescheduling so LJ can be available, and european partners too
<ace_suares> [Agenda]\
<ace_suares> wo
<ace_suares> === Agenda Next Meeting ===
<ace_suares> Fri Sep 25 17:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
<ace_suares>  * Weekly Reports
<ace_suares>  * Release DVD
<ace_suares>  * LaserJocks Request for Comments (EC)
<ace_suares>  * Sabayon?
<ace_suares>  * Handbook?
<ace_suares>  * Meeting Schedule
<ace_suares> [TOPIC] Weekly Reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Reports
<ace_suares> Any one got something to report?
<LaserJock> not a lot in the last week from me
<LaserJock> but the DVDs are being built daily
<LaserJock> Beta is coming up quick
<LaserJock> we need to get amd64 tested this time
<LaserJock> for Alpha6 we didn't get any testing so it had to be dropped from the release
<LaserJock> we also need to get updated testing instructions on iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> as what's on there now points to Addon testing
<ace_suares> [Topic] Release DVD
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release DVD
<ace_suares> LaserJock: Can you make like a schedule for when things need to be tested?
<ace_suares> I cna then send remionders to the list.
<ogra> beta is on thu
<ogra> isos are being built from tue on
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
<ogra> you usually can count on freeze for an alpha/beta/rc being the tue before the respective release
<ogra> from then on testing should start
<ace_suares> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting is this page up to date? If not we want to make it up to date before tue and move
<ace_suares> oh sorry not move he eh
<ace_suares> But it should be Edubutu/Release/9.10/Testing or something
 * ogra wouldnt make that versioned
<ogra> just adjust the content for a new release, so you dont create pages over and over
<ace_suares> So what, I can work out a schedule my self looking at the release page? I can do and then will sned to devel and then you can approve or change and then i can send reminders to the list. We should alsomention zsync in 9.04 is broken and need package from 9.10 OR use rsync
<ace_suares> Then it should be Edubuntu/Testing
<ace_suares> ogra: it says please dont' edit this page so I am stadning off...
<ogra> or Edubutu/Release/Testing ... as you like :)
<ace_suares> yeah okay better.
<ogra> its bound to the isotracker
<ogra> thats why it has that note
<ace_suares> what is an isotracker?
<ogra> the thing LaserJock mentioned above :)
<ogra> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<ace_suares> actually http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/edubuntu/all
<ace_suares> hm it's still listed as an add-on ?
<ogra> thats what LaserJock said ...
<ogra> you should start using action items in your meeting ;)
<ace_suares> sorry i am missing things obiviouyslly, must be visually challenged
<ace_suares> so, who is going to simplify the test schedule so we can all try and motivate more poeple to test?
 * LaserJock returns from checking on experiment
<LaserJock> I can put together a list and send it to -devel
<LaserJock> stgraber can probably make changes in the tracker
<ace_suares> [Action] LaserJock puts together a list of dates when we need testing and posts it to -devel
<MootBot> ACTION received:  LaserJock puts together a list of dates when we need testing and posts it to -devel
<ace_suares> [Action] Ace volunteers to write up a Testing page that outlines the simple procedure to test, links to all relevant procedures etc
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Ace volunteers to write up a Testing page that outlines the simple procedure to test, links to all relevant procedures etc
<ace_suares> stgraber: are you here?
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if we need that page anymore though
<LaserJock> the QA team has their own wiki for test cases
<ace_suares> I think we need a page that outlines what we expect from our community and then link tru to the various pages that are relevant
<ace_suares> Like a starting point that is edubuntu specific
<ace_suares> but of course I will immediately agree with LaserJock if that means I can keep on doing nothing :-)
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> we should have a Testing page that sends people to the tracker, etc.
<ogra> it would need a set of cases on http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/ i guess
<LaserJock> but the actual "this is what you test" wiki page is on the QA wiki
<ogra> unless you can add individual links to the tracker
<LaserJock> I think the tracker links to a particular page on testcases.qa.u.c already
<LaserJock> if we have permission to edit that one we should just do that
<ogra> yep http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/EdubuntuDesktop
<ogra> and http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/EdubuntuAddOnCD
<LaserJock> hmm, http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/EdubuntuAddonCd is the one it links to, which is not optimal :-)
<ogra> as well as http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/LTSPServer if you want to include that ( alkisg seemed to have interest here )
<ace_suares> [Action] Ace is not volunteering to set up a testing page anymore due to unexpected complexities
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Ace is not volunteering to set up a testing page anymore due to unexpected complexities
 * alkisg volunteers to test the ltsp installation
<LaserJock> ok, well somebody should get the testing thing all figured out
<ace_suares> Sorry guys, my time is almost up here
<ogra> ace_suares, s/complexities/challenges/
<ogra> ;)
<LaserJock> ok, well
<ace_suares> ogra: yeah. right :-)
<LaserJock> is there anything that's quick that IRC is good for?
<LaserJock> else we can shove things onto edubuntu-devel for discussion
<ace_suares> LaserJock: I don't know.
<LaserJock> I had a good discussion with highvoltage the other day concerning the Edubuntu Council and providing more leadership/direction for contributors
<LaserJock> one of the results is that email I sent
<ace_suares> LaserJock: Normally, i'd put up a page and in doing so figuring out all things that are related, asking around and such, but if it's already doubtful if we need such page then I'm not even starting. Once bitton, twice shy.
<ace_suares> [Topic] EC and Request for... Confirmation?
<MootBot> New Topic:  EC and Request for... Confirmation?
<ogra> first of all you should get a quorum again
<LaserJock> yes
<ace_suares> how much is the quorum ?
<LaserJock> I believe we are working with the CC on that
<ogra> three at least i think
<LaserJock> we have 3
<ace_suares> there is three is nt there?
<ogra> but CC needs to approve
<LaserJock> we'd like to get 2 more
<ogra> who is EC atm ?
<LaserJock> stgraber, highvoltage, and myself
<ace_suares> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Teams/EdubuntuCouncil
 * ogra is definately ready to retire, i think i'm still in the LP team
<LaserJock> unfortunately all busy people :(
<LaserJock> ogra: I think you got removed
<ogra> ah, good
<LaserJock> I did some cleanup and got the CC mad at me ;-)
<ogra> heh
<ace_suares> happens to the best then :-)
<LaserJock> ace_suares: if you're not getting yelled at you're not doing enough!
<ogra> ++
<ace_suares> LOL
<LaserJock> I'm working on getting a task list to finish of Karmic
<ace_suares> Well, the problem is after being yelled at I'd tend to try to respect the points of the yeller and postpone working till a resolve is there, but that's maybe the wrong thing to do. I don't know.
<ace_suares> Noting really moves forward.
<LaserJock> ace_suares: they key I think is getting resolution quickly and moving on
<LaserJock> we're stalling a lot
<ace_suares> Now Waiting for the EC
<ace_suares> And then it turns out that the EC has no quorom unless the CC approves
<LaserJock> no, we have a quorom
<LaserJock> barely
<LaserJock> but I believe we have it
<ogra> right, three is enough
<ace_suares> My enthusiasm meter is going 51%... 49%... 50.9%... 49%... 50.5%...
<LaserJock> in any case, I'm not sure that we need to have such rigidity there
<LaserJock> I think people are just wanting a bit more guidance and a bit more "leadership" for lack of a better term
<ace_suares> Even my first proposal of today got shot down.
<LaserJock> ace_suares: which one was that?
<LaserJock> oh, we should discuss meeting schedule before leaving
<ace_suares> Oh, never mind. My wife is calling me for dinner. I gotta go. Can someone else do endmeeting or do in need to close? Trying to follow the mootbot.
 * stgraber waves
<ace_suares> [Topic] meeting schedule
<MootBot> New Topic:  meeting schedule
<LaserJock> ace_suares: you need to end it
<ace_suares> Last meeting it was decided that Highvoltage should reschedule the meetings so LJ can be included, but nothing happened.
<ace_suares> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:53.
<LaserJock> ace_suares: he contacted me
<LaserJock> ace_suares: so we should be moving forward a bit on that one
<LaserJock> stgraber: we need to get the Edubuntu info on iso.qa.ubuntu.com updated
<LaserJock> stgraber: can you help with that?
<ace_suares> Splendid! So by lack of a proposal at the table the next meeting is next friday same time? or?
<stgraber> LaserJock: sure
<LaserJock> ace_suares: maybe we should do that and if we get a new schedule figured out in the mean time we can change it
<ace_suares> Yeah, that would be the normal thing to do.
<LaserJock> stgraber: do you have time now or should I send an email?
<ace_suares> Okay I'm off have a good time all. Enjoy your everyday of your life and don't fill it with worthless tasks.
<ace_suares> Bye!
<alkisg> bye ace_suares :)
<Lns> bye ace_suares
<stgraber> LaserJock: I'm connected to quandong right now, so I can do a quick DB change quite easily
<LaserJock> stgraber: awesome, let's move to #edubuntu to free up the room
<stgraber> ok
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-26
<DKcross> hello guys
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-27
<DKcross> hello people
<DKcross> :)
<dpic> who's here for the gaming team meeting?
<dpic> who's here for the meeting?
<doctormo> Hello, here for the gaming meeting
<dpic> aha, thanks doctormo
<doctormo> So what's on the agenda Mr Danny?
<dpic> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2009-09-27
<dpic> doctormo: oh no, matt lee kept calling my mr. danny at the boston reddit meetup
<dpic> and repeating my name over and over in a disapproving tone
<dpic> anyways, problem areas for FOSS games, so far the two major ones are lack of  content development platform as good as the code development platforms that exist, as well as maintaining a good art direction that isn't led by a programmer who isn't an artist
<DreadKnight> me too
<doctormo> dpic: You have a number of options with art, 1) create druple type site to make content, specificly Creative Commons (no NC or ND allowed)
<Moustafa> So, basically, if we get artists to lead the projects, a portion of the problem would be solved?
<doctormo> 2) Use launchpad in some way, this might include coding new features into launchpad for doing more art/marketing/content type things.
<dpic> doctormo: yes, we were already considering bot h those options
<doctormo> 3) Pair up with an existing site such as deviantArt or some gaming content art site.
<dpic> and now that our ideas are a little more  planned out here:
<dpic> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam/Projects/DistributedContentDevelopment
<dpic> we wanted to revisit which should be the best option
<dpic> Moustafa: yes
<doctormo> You can't really solve the problem from the perspective of artists until you have a group of artists and modlers involved int he community you want to set up
<DreadKnight> guys... what sort of games are you considering? A remake of tetris or something like "mass effect" ? :P
<Moustafa> http://www.game-artist.net/forums/ should be a good place to find more artists
<doctormo> dpic: I take it that you've read Jono Bacon's "The Art of the Community bitches"
<doctormo> DreadKnight: This is more base line, any games that spring forth and any source resources that go into them.
<Moustafa> Well, if you are looking for artists wanting to lead some projects, I'm one.  I've been planning on making a game using FOSS tools, and distribute it online, perhaps via the planned Canonical store
<doctormo> DreadKnight: For instance, think of all the FOSS games int he repository where models, textures and graphics are not catalogued or sorted for re-use by other projects.
<DreadKnight> I'm founder of Freezing Moon, a NPO developing 2 foss game projects www.FreezingMoon.org     http://www.blendernation.com/freezing-moon-open-games/
<doctormo> Moustafa: It's not called "store" any more :-D
<dpic> doctormo: i have not read that but looking it p-- there doesn't seem to be "bitches" in the title
<Moustafa> Yeah, I read
<Moustafa> But there are still plans for it
<DreadKnight> using launchpad and "common art" for game projects is not the way to go if you actually wanna make quality stuff
<doctormo> dpic: That's just me being funny
<doctormo> dpic: But it's an excelent book for learning how to grow a community. A good starting point might be the blender gaming community
<DreadKnight> www.gameblender.org and www.FreezingMoon.org (related to blender gaming communities)
<Moustafa> I'll second DreadKnight here:  Each game has to make its own content.  To have some assets that could be used all around can help, though
<dpic> doctormo: any suggestions as to how to coordinate something with them?
<doctormo> dpic: Join any mailing lists or forums and work at it, see what kind of community it is and who would be interested in FOSS.
<dpic> Moustafa: it's not just that artists are in short supply, but developers don't like stepping down and letting other people making art decisions
<DreadKnight> games have their own graphic styles, polycounts budges... and so on, reusing content for another game is usually crap; but the good part of an open source project is that people would get access to files and eventually improve things (like optimizing a 3d model or tweaking it or adding animations to a 3d model)
<doctormo> Moustafa: I expect all game projects will need to make a lot of artwork and content just for the feel of the game. But far too often we forget the ease of derivitive works. We can make a tree model into the moody tree for a different game in less time then making a tree model from scratch.
<Moustafa> dpic: Wouldn't it then make more sense to have the artists start a project and find coders that are interested in bringing things to life?
<dpic> DreadKnight: why would using launchpad be bad?
<dpic> Moustafa: not a bad idea, but how could the gaming team coordinate that?
<doctormo> dpic: launchpad, It's hard to code, hard to change and not set up at all for dealign with creative content development.
<Moustafa> doctormo: Oh, things like trees, vehicles, or otherwise general objects (such as chairs) could be used from commons arts, that does make sense
<DreadKnight> dpic, for game development, you need dropbox; launchpad is a joke for 3d games etc, only works for software such as empathy; when you tweak a model etc you don't need to have barriers and force the artists to commit patches, make branches and such using a CVS; dropbox is like sharing a folder with other people, way more practical and intuitive
<DreadKnight> and if you're using launchpad, it's barely even usable if you're using blender and it's game engine, as most of the stuff happens in a single blend file, so you can't merge stuff in branches just like that
<doctormo> DreadKnight: When did launchpad ever use CVS?
<dpic> got it, so then what about the other websites listed? should we try helping them, or set u pa new site from scratch?
<DreadKnight> bazaar = content versioning system
<dpic> like opengameart.org
<Moustafa> dpic: Do like the large companies and have a lead programmer that works in co-ordination with the director or lead artist to make sure things are going smoothly
<doctormo> DreadKnight: Ah well, see I'm working on GUI launchpad/bzr intergration, but blender still wouldn't fit well enough for that.
<dpic> Moustafa: yes, that's what projects can do, but what can this team do to make sure they do that? sent out a public letter asking all foss programmers to elect a lead artist?
<DreadKnight> Moustafa, that's how I do it at freezing Moon... I'm the game design developer and 3d modeler... I make sure things follow the guidelines and so on; we have most of the documentation online for who wants to read about the workflow
<DreadKnight> doctormo, something like ubuntu one would do, it's similar to dropbox, but the downside is that's only for ubuntu... so most people will be using windows and not be able to contribute...
<dpic> doctormo: you worked on ubuntu one, right?
<DreadKnight> dpic, don't bother; each struggling project leader will find it's way, just like turtles hatching on the beach making their way into the sea
<dpic> do you think that has potential for being used as a platform?
<doctormo> dpic: I did
<dpic> DreadKnight: they're taking too long to do so =]
<doctormo> DreadKnight: I'm not totally convinced that DropBox is the right kind of workflow anyway, you can't branch and you can't label or publish from there. It would be fairly course working with more than 20 people.
<DreadKnight> dpic, it has, I guarantee; the downside is that you only get 2gb... while dropbox can reach up to 5gb for free.... and it's limited to ubuntu... and most artist you'll encouter will use windows/photoshop and won't be so eager about linux/gimp
<DreadKnight> doctormo, you don't branch a blender game, you only branch empathy; games are complex/different things
<dpic> DreadKnight: won't ubuntu one expand? or have paid storage?
<doctormo> DreadKnight: One of the problems with artists creating content in Closed apps is closed source formats. It's important to have media sources available.
<dpic> DreadKnight: and i'm pretty sure it'll be cross platform too
<DreadKnight> dpic, of you're an indie developer, you won't afford paying for accounts for random people just to have them work, unless you're funded and such
<dpic> ah, right
<DreadKnight> doctormo, well, if the artists in your team do great concept artwork in photoshop and export as jpg/png and they don't charge you, it's all good
<Moustafa> dpic:  If the project is started by a programmer, it might be best to actually encourage the election of a lead artist so that good art is made and avaiable.  Beyond that, getting some deadlines on goals each month could prompt the team to make sure their work is done.
<DreadKnight> agree
<doctormo> DreadKnight: Concept art and content art are not the same
<doctormo> Although artists that save in jpeg need to be corrected, it's just a bad format for anything other than photographs.
<DreadKnight> doctormo, of course; we're only using blender for the 3d assets/animations/game engine etc  ... that's really important; I reject 3d artists willing to help if they're not willing to learn blender, with help provided of course
<DreadKnight> doctormo, it was just an example; for concept art and linearts its just fine
<DreadKnight> the goal is to get the idea of a new creature and prop in order to pass it on to a 3d artist and get it modeled
<DreadKnight> for game textures and icons etc, png, tiff, tga would do
<doctormo> DreadKnight: For line arts it's much more lossy than anything else, tiff, png or bmp for lossless formats.
<hyp3rfocus> hi
<DreadKnight> doctormo, you don't need loseless for anything
<Moustafa> I'd like to add that Blender is making it easier for the modeler to do the texture work as well, thanks to its painting tools.  It's not perfect, but it's a damned good start
<doctormo> DreadKnight: You don't need lossy for anything
<doctormo> Why loose things ever
<DreadKnight> Moustafa, most people won't use the 3d painting tools for example, beacause they're too buggy and slow for now
<DreadKnight> doctormo, look at our gallery... I often get 2000x2000 drawings... i resize them to 800x800 to save up space, because those drawings don't have the details in them to be worth 2000x2000. so jpg just does the job anyway
<DreadKnight> saving space is a feature :P
<Moustafa> DK: Good point.  I pretty much am getting to use them as I gain more experience with Blender, but I agree that they're not quite up in terms of performance when compared to software like ZBrush or Mudbox
<hyp3rfocus> what's the discussion here?
<DreadKnight> hyp3rfocus, free open source game development
<doctormo> DreadKnight: What kind of workflow requires such restrictions? at least back the files up locally.
<hyp3rfocus> cool
<hyp3rfocus> what engines do you guys use?
<DreadKnight> doctormo, yes, but the shared folders are limited to 2gb for most people... up to 5gb for those who have referals and such (for free)
<doctormo> DreadKnight: A problem with your workflow model that uses dropbox, nothing more.
<DreadKnight> hyp3rfocus, blender's game engine, no bottle necks in the pipeline... you make everything, even code using drag'n'drop (logic bricks) and you press a key and play ... and you even see the game in your 3d viewport as it will look while playing
<dpic> DreadKnight: jumping back a bit, perhaps canonical would, similar to launchpad, allow extra storage on ubuntu one for FOSS games for free? and then a platform could be built around that
<DreadKnight> doctormo, dropbox or not, some things are not worth huge resolution or bmp format :P
<DreadKnight> dpic, that would be awesome, as long as they would rename that application and make it cross platform
<hyp3rfocus> DreadKnight: i'm very interesting in the blender game engine. i've spent a lot of time messing around with quake3 and doom3, but i'm getting tired of getting stuff from blender to the games. game engine sounds a lot more fun.
<Moustafa> DK: Usually, game engines require that you keep your assets in the power of two, and most of the time, even high-def gaming uses about 512x512 textures.  Beyond that can get overkill, but does make things prettier
<DreadKnight> hyp3rfocus, totally, no more save/import/export crap or compilation of the code
<hyp3rfocus> DreadKnight: is knowledge of python essential?
<DreadKnight> Moustafa, if you have OpenGL 2.0 compatible video card, you don't need power of two crap anymore
<DreadKnight> in BGE at least
<doctormo> DreadKnight: You can't know when a work will be vectorised or used in some future unknown way, I've found it's best to always at least keep backups of large res files.
<DreadKnight> doctormo, stop finding hypothetical cases :D be more practical
<doctormo> DreadKnight: BTW, what required renaming?
<dpic> i think we're getting a little side tracked =]
<doctormo> dpic: your the meeting chair
<dpic> alright so, starting with the development platform
<DreadKnight> doctormo, "ubuntu one"... if you make it cross platform or even use that in other linux distros, it doesn't makes sense.... it's as arrogant or confusing like "gnome-do"
<dpic> has everybody looked at the page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam/Projects/DistributedContentDevelopment ?
<doctormo> DreadKnight: Stop finding emotive cases :D be more practical
<DreadKnight> :D
<DreadKnight> I am practical, I'm a game developer :P
<doctormo> I'm a busybody
<Moustafa> dpic: I'm looking at it.  Unfortunately, family business came up and I have to leave for now, should be back in 30 minutes, but I'll keep this window up
<dpic> what would be the most suitable platform for our needs? are we agreed on ubuntu one or some similar and possible future version of it?
<DreadKnight> "3D artist love to have lost...." should be lots*
<DreadKnight> dpic, agree, if crossplatform and providing more space
<dpic> alright, perhaps we can get in touch with canonical
<doctormo> Lots of space, very fast space, making sure everything is propperly copyleft (not NC or ND) and making sure sources are available in open formats. <- my advice.
<hyp3rfocus> also, shouldn't that be "3D artists"
<doctormo> Now I must go
<doctormo> good luck dpic
<dpic> does it seem *possible* for ubuntu one to to support the features we outlined?
<DreadKnight> hyp3rfocus, lol... right xD
<dpic> thanks doctormo
<DreadKnight> people come and go :D
<DreadKnight> that's why it's very hard to make a 'real' game as an indie dev
<DreadKnight> not to mention most people barely have any skills suitable for your project
<dpic> as far as contacting canonical goes, how can we make a real business case for them?
<dpic> how do we get them to listen to us?
<dpic> and is there still possibility of partnering with the blender foundation if we go with ubuntu one?
<DreadKnight> dpic, well, I was considering emailing canonical at some point in order to make a partnership; My life is sort of on the line regarding FreezingMoon as I even quit my job and im working full time on the projects... I have lots of experience in the field and I wanna do high-quality stuff
<dpic> cool, what kind of partnership were you emailing about?
<DreadKnight> Ton Rosendal or Nathan Letwory use Mac os x and Windows, without any direct interest in using something only ment for ubuntu...
<dpic> right, but of course nothign is possible until ubuntu one goes cross platform
<DreadKnight> I was thinking of montly fonds ($) and 'link exchange'; You see all the cool games have a windows logo on them, "product developed for windows"... I think Ubuntu would use some games with that kind of stuff on the box etc as well
<DreadKnight> otherwise people won't take Linux seriously with preinstalled chess games and only open arena
<DreadKnight> most foss games are multiplayer/online, no singleplayer or storyline
<DreadKnight> some have singleplayer, but we're not in the 80's anymore.....
<DreadKnight> and I think CC NC should be allowed; artists are usually scared to make drawings everybody can use, I can assure you that; and commercial usage will just allow 3rd parties to make moneis without even contributing/sponsoring the devs, not cool... as games are very demanding projects
<dpic> hm, well do you think you could help with contacting them about this development platform too?
<dpic> it's not a foss license so we can't
<dpic> developers used to be just as afraid
<DreadKnight> well, as far as I know, Launchpad even allows copyrighted projects in certain cases
<dpic> and not ture if they use SA
<DreadKnight> don't confuse coders with artists;
<dpic> yeah, with a commercial license
<DreadKnight> artists have a very different mentality... they put a part of their souls in every drawings and care about them
<DreadKnight> drawing*
<hyp3rfocus> and coders don't?
<dpic> yeah...
<DreadKnight> code is a different thing; it's easier to be made in collaboration or to branch
<dpic> but the point is NC is not foss
<DreadKnight> Consider it how you want, but I'm letting you know the real-case scenario :)
<dpic> perhaps the mindset is a bit different
<dpic> but NC is incompatible with FOSS
<dpic> hopefully that mindset can change
<hyp3rfocus> i'd like to see 3d modelling done in collaboration in the same way as code.
<DreadKnight> most of the artists I managed to get into my projects don't know about foss... and copyright their works and use huge watermarks :D but I couldn't do without them
<hyp3rfocus> easy to do with text based model formats
<dpic> hyp3rfocus: that's why we want this new development platform =]
<hyp3rfocus> oh cool
<DreadKnight> I wouldn't be working on games giving everything for free, as Canonical thinks of the $ as well (consider tech support, ubuntu one etc); I invest a lot of time to not get anything? Wouldn't be fair to allow a 3rd party to make money off my back;
<hyp3rfocus> it would also work with svg based art
<dpic> DreadKnight: shareAlike clause.
<DreadKnight> There are cross platform or free games nowadays, but they're closed source; Leagueoflegends.com heroesofnewerth.com (this one is cross platform), the CC NC allows for people to share/learn/contribute, so I think it's a good enough case
<hyp3rfocus> there are gpl cross platform games too
<dpic> the problem is that it's incompatible with FOSS
<hyp3rfocus> nexuiz, openarena
<hyp3rfocus> the xreal engine is gpl too, but it's media isn't
<DreadKnight> nexuiz and openarena are cool games, but as I said, we're not in the 80's anymore; openarena is based on quake 3 engine, which was closed and made lots of money... it got old and they released it... but times moved on....
<hyp3rfocus> xreal is worth checking out
<hyp3rfocus> modern graphics, skeletal animation
<dpic> how about we start by contacting canoincal. DreadKnight, were you just going to shoot them an email? Do oyu know how would be best to reach them?
<hyp3rfocus> apparently the graphics are better than doom3
<dpic> and is collaboration with the blender foundation still possible
<DreadKnight> dpic, perhaps emailing Mark Shuttleworth; I am planing to email them this year... want to have a community again when Google Wave will be released and to have a demo (an early alpha) for at least one of the 2 projects
<dpic> alright
<dpic> and how about encouraging games to elect a lead artist, how can we best do that?
<DreadKnight> dpic, blender foundation doesn't usually gets involved with 3rd party stuff, but they're interested how other people use blender and they're looking forward to hear feedback on how could blender be improved and such; maybe at some point I'll get their attention and have "development sprints" for the FM projects and they're hearquarters in Amsterdam
<dpic> DreadKnight: considering the open more and game projects, i think this could benefit them too
<DreadKnight> dpic, I usually pay my concept artist from time to time, and looking forward to pay other devs as well... next year I want to have the core-team of Freezing Moon to be rewarded financially and work part time at least; about 20 people; pretty much like blender foundation does each year, having a payed team + contribution/feedback from the community
<DreadKnight> lead concept artist*
<DreadKnight> I think huge art or gamedevelopment related communities should try to involve people into open source game/movie projects, rather than just random weekly/monthly challenges
<dpic> hm, what challenges are oyu referring to?
<dpic> and is there anything in that this team can do to encourage games lacking a lead concept artist to elect one?
<DreadKnight> because getting things together into an animation or demo is more challenging for people and the end result is more interesting rather than random creatures for portfolio showcase
<DreadKnight> dpic, not sure what to say about that... it's a low of 'triall' to find people as an indie developer and *really* get things going in the right direction
<DreadKnight> the people need to be serious about it, they need to get along fine and so on
<dpic> yeah
<dpic> are there any other areas besides those two that are such a significant barrier to FOSS game adoption?
<DreadKnight> so trying to assume the role of a 'match-maker' is similar to making a website for 'selling' brides to say so
<dpic> haha
<DreadKnight> moneis are a key factor :D I think like it was discussed about Ubuntu/Linux to have some sort of payed jobs, like people raising money in order to pay a developer to implement a feature or fix some bugs.... I think the commercial aspect of a game should be considered as well
<dpic> it should
<DreadKnight> It would be interesting to have some foss related website to showcase projects to possible investors
<dpic> but that something that has to be take on a per-project basis
<DreadKnight> of course
<dpic> hm, does nothing like that exist?
<DreadKnight> there are websites showcasing 'lame' foss projects, but there isn't one as far as I know to only showcase the most promissing/demanding projects
<DreadKnight> Don't get me wrong, I love foss games, but for a real gamer, they're just crap to say so, that's why you see "does it run crysis?" on digg when it comes to linux related articles and such
<DreadKnight> even if a projects is foss, there's a huge difference between a successful project and one just started for the sake of doing something
<dpic> yeah i know
<dpic> well, maybe we should start a FOSS gaming website from scratch for this purpose
<dpic> it could double as the development platform if we got enough support
<DreadKnight> so I really want to get things to a new level and solve part of the "linux is not for games" issue, since I'm all into this foss thing; therefor I even need to consider the commercial-like aspects :)
<DreadKnight> there are a few foss gaming website; the thing is to get involved in helping a certain project to be able to 'match' a commercial quality like game
<DreadKnight> as much as possible; most games have huge budgets and lots of people working full time in a studio
<DreadKnight> even the free games I listed earlier, have that kind of stuff, but they also consider making $ using all sorts of strategies, like in-game shops, e-shop selling items and so on
<dpic> yeah
<dpic> alright well there aren't enough people here for the next two agenda items so we can hold off until next month
<dpic> or should the next meeting be in two months again?
<DreadKnight> the agenda items are... ?
<dpic> priorituze projects and assign jobs
<DreadKnight> Im guessing some people only read now or later...
<dpic> huh?
<DreadKnight> maybe even having a log online would help
<dpic> #ubuntu-meeting is logged
<DreadKnight> 154 peeps here, quite a lot :)
<DreadKnight> good
<dpic> well participating, people =]
<DreadKnight> well, it's up for you to decide :D
<dpic> hm, well what do we have to do in the meantime? contact canonical...write up a blog post, summarize the meeting logs, anything else?
<dpic> sounds doable in one month
<DreadKnight> I might even join the ubuntu/gnome/kde planets and start blogging more often about foss game development / usability and graphic design using foss
<DreadKnight> I keep up to date with everything related..
<dpic> that would be awesome!
<dpic> are you an ubuntu member?
<DreadKnight> hmm, guess not; I have wiki account and a page..
<dpic> you need to become an approved member
<dpic> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<DreadKnight> seems I need to do some more stuff as I got rejected earlier on launchpad when joining kubuntu-members :D
<dpic> =]
<dpic> any final thoughts?
<DreadKnight> I see; guess I'll start translating again soon and do some artwork/mockups
<dpic> excellent =]
<DreadKnight> all good with me; only that people shouldn't confuse an application with a real game; so branching is usually out of the way
<dpic> alright, this meeting is hereby concluded
<dpic> thank's to everyone who showed up!
<dpic> thanks*
<DreadKnight> \o/
<DreadKnight> cheers!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-27
<cjwatson> cody-somerville,persia,geser,nixternal,soren,stgraber: DMB meeting in three minutes, by my calendar
<cjwatson> two
<cjwatson> bagsy not chair, since I chaired the last mega-meeting
<cody-somerville> I should note that I won't usually be able to make this time. I saw an e-mail about there being a proposed time change but I thought I'd have more time to respond before the change was actually made.
<cjwatson> the discussion dragged on for months
<cjwatson> I'm sorry you didn't feel there was enough time to respond, but in any event it was clear that no one time was good for everyone.  Can you make the 1900 UTC slot in the rotation?
 * stgraber waves
<cody-somerville> I haven't had a chance to read the e-mail yet. I was sick for most of last week and on vacation the week before.
 * geser is here
<geser> but as I'm at work, I'm not the best candidate for chair
<cjwatson> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:22:45 +0100
<cjwatson> Please speak now or forever hold your peace (at least until the next
<cjwatson> time).
 * barry waves
 * stgraber is also at work with a face-to-face meeting in 57 minutes (just after DMB) so probably not the best to chair that one either, sorry.
<cody-somerville> cjwatson, Yea, 1900 UTC shouldn't be a problem at all.
<cjwatson> there was also a thread from early July that AFAICS you didn't follow up to, Cody
<cjwatson> ok, good
<cjwatson> cody-somerville,geser: can one of you chair, perhaps?
<geser> cjwatson: how far up on your TODO list is setting up the voting for the free DMB seat?
<cjwatson> we appear to have basic quorum at least
<cjwatson> geser: not very; if you'd like to take it over, please do
<geser> is there a howto for it?
<cjwatson> I don't think so
<cjwatson> which is one reason I haven't done it yet
<raphink> Hi guys, Raphael Pinson here, hope I'm not too late for the DMB
<cody-somerville> I guess I can chair.
<cody-somerville> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:08. The chair is cody-somerville.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cody-somerville> Do we have quorum?
<stgraber> we are at least 4 on IRC from what I can see, so I think so.
<cjwatson> chair> thanks
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Administrative Matters: Review Marco Rodrigues participation in Ubuntu Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Administrative Matters: Review Marco Rodrigues participation in Ubuntu Development
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcoRodrigues/ParticipationApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcoRodrigues/ParticipationApplication
<cody-somerville> He doesn't appear to be here.
<cjwatson> we should consider in absentia I think
<cjwatson> I find ScottK's comment disturbing, and am looking for a citation so that I can read more about it
<cjwatson> (regarding debian-games)
<cody-somerville> Indeed.
<cjwatson> does anyone have one to hand?
<cjwatson> (this is not doubting ScottK; I'm looking for a citation so that I can see how recent it is and make my own judgement about the circumstances)
<geser> that should be around the same time as his trouble in Ubuntu
<geser> at least I don't know of any more recent one
<ScottK> It's not particularly recent.  It was shortly after he was asked not to contribute to Ubuntu.
<ScottK> (I looked for the relevant message on the debian-games archive and couldn't find it)
<ScottK> The issue I was attempting to bring up was not that it was a recent problem, but that his description of his involvement with Debian is at best incomplete.
<cody-somerville> He seems active in Debian in other teams.
<cjwatson> his endorsements would be OK (if sparse) for a new application, but they seem a bit half-hearted for the standard of "MOTUs supporting this wish actively" (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-January/003067.html)
<cjwatson> to be honest, what I would be looking for is people saying "he's great now, we'd really like him back because it would take so much load off our shoulders"
<cody-somerville> Its not clear to me what exactly Marco wants.
<cjwatson> I certainly appreciate his efforts in cleaning up bugs against removed packages in Debian, although it is worth noting that ftpmaster is looking to do that automatically instead
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: he is banned from participating in Ubuntu development; he wants that ban lifted
<cjwatson> (see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-January/003067.html)
 * persia apologises for being tardy
<cjwatson> does anyone else have an actual opinion here?  mine seems to currently be: I'm not seeing a pressing reason to lift the ban, although I kind of dislike having to ban people as a general rule and understand that it is worth reviewing any bans we do have to impose from time to time
<cjwatson> and what I'd really appreciate in trying to form a more complete opinion is more strong opinions from other developers who've interacted with Kmos recently
<stgraber> I'd also appreciate getting more feedback (be it negative or positive) and ideally more documented than what we currently have
<geser> some more feedback would be nice, I see currently on two weak endorsements from ~ubuntu-dev and one comment against lifting from ~ubuntu-dev
<persia> I don't really like administering the ban, and the few bits of feedback I've received have been positive, but I'll admit to not having much feedback.
<cjwatson> perhaps it would be worth deferring, and have the minutes of this meeting explicitly call for comments from developers?
<cody-somerville> I guess my question is, is it justified to require more from kmos than any other to allow him to participate because of his history? Should no longer being disruptive but instead on par with any new contributor be the necessary threshold to permit Marco to participate again?
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: my feeling is that lifting a ban should require more than the normal threshold, simply because we have that prior history
<cjwatson> that said, I don't think bans should be unalterably for life
<persia> I think it ought require a lower threshold than we might require for other sorts of approvals we perform, simply because he's not permitted to engage in most of the activities we typically review.
<cjwatson> interesting, and I see your point.  perhaps a different kind of threshold
<persia> "different kind" is a better way of phrasing it, indeed.
<cody-somerville> We don't require any review though for an individual to be able to participate.
<cjwatson> I guess what I mean by a higher threshold is that it ought to require a higher level of enthusiasm from *people*
<cjwatson> given that many of the problems were essentially social
<persia> I believe we also must judge based on the criteria in the ban email, rather than anything else.
<cjwatson> I agree, and I'm trying to extemporise "MOTUs supporting this wish actively" into something we can apply
<cody-somerville> Why would a Ubuntu developer get enthusiastic about someone who isn't allowed to participate in Ubuntu development?
<cjwatson> I don't know about you but I develop in more than just Ubuntu :-)
<cjwatson> plenty of people have Debian experience for instance
<persia> And plenty who don't end up spending time reviewing changes coming from Debian.
<geser> is Kmos allowed to contribute through proxies (other MOTUs)?
<cjwatson> the positive comments so far seem to be essentially "I got a few patches and they seemed OK"
<cjwatson> and that kind of thing
<persia> geser, That's a complex question: I'd say that some of the work he's done with pitti skirts the edge of banned behaviour, whereas I was confortable with his work with liw (computer-janitor)
<cjwatson> Lucas' comment involves some of the most direct experience, and is the most positive
 * persia spends some time each week reviewing apparent activity in Ubuntu and Debian, and counselling when there is an appearance of Ubuntu-development-related work
<cjwatson> persia also commented in the report "The vast majority of the reports I have received about his work in Debian have been positive, especially those received in the last year"
<cody-somerville> I think we should give Marco a second chance, ie. a probationary period.
<cody-somerville> At the end of the probationary period, we can evaluate any comments or complaints made against kmos after that time and make a decision if he can continue to participate or not.
<cjwatson> I'm ambivalent about the ban-skating; on one hand I disapprove of working around bans, but on the other it seems somehow mean to complain based purely on that
<persia> I don't think it requires a probationary period.  I think the question before us is simply: shall we allow him to start as a new contributor.  If he doesn't behave, there's plenty of precedent to ask him to stop.  The risk is that we cause annoyance for developers, some of whom have already spent way too much time untangling from past actions.
<cjwatson> persia: were the three cases of ban-skating recent?
<cjwatson> the ones that caused developers to report them
<cody-somerville> persia, If we let him start as a new contributor than the same burden of proof to ban a new contributor will be required to ban him again.
<geser> how recent is "recent"?
<cjwatson> how about "how long ago were they?"
<persia> One of them was somewhere around lucid release (I think after beta freeze).  The others were earlier.  I'd have to dig logs to get exact dates.
<cjwatson> rough impression is OK
<cody-somerville> We need to move on.
<geser> how severe were those annoyances?
<persia> More common behaviour is to watch IRC (he's only +q), and when something he can sort comes up, passing the answer to someone in /query, which I tend to tolerate so long as nobody complains and it's not too obvious.
<persia> geser, People saying "Isn't he banned"?  I don't recall any cases where there was something he did that caused specific cleanup issues.
<cody-somerville> I motion to postpone consideration.
<persia> Let me qualify that: I don't remember any such after the initial issues related to implementation of the ban.
<cjwatson> I second Cody's motion as long as the postponement includes a call for feedback from developers
<cjwatson> (otherwise we'll just postpone indefinitely)
<geser> he should get allowed to work through a proxy (a MOTU) to get some actual feedback
<ScottK> Given that the threshold to get banned is SO high, it seems odd to me to consider it was a mistake.
<persia> geser, I'm not sure how that is different from any other participation by a non-member of ~ubuntu-dev: to me that is equivalent to lifting the ban.
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] Postpone consideration of Marco Rodrigues's request and call for feedback from developers.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Postpone consideration of Marco Rodrigues's request and call for feedback from developers..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> ScottK, I very much don't consider the ban a mistake.  I think it was important that it happened.  I happen to know that Kmos agrees.
<cjwatson> it's different because the proxy is volunteering to essentially be exposed to somebody who may turn out to waste their time
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cjwatson> and to take responsibility for the actions that result that are visible to other Ubuntu developers
<persia> I'm just under the impression that he's close to having reached the threshold required in the ban terms.
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> +1 # with comments above
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<cody-somerville> #endvote
<cody-somerville> whats the command to end the vote?
<geser> persia: eg. a new contributor can use requestsync, he should send them first to his proxy instead of directly to LP and ~ubuntu-sponsors
<cjwatson> [ENDVOTE]
<cody-somerville> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<persia> geser, Ah, so another oversight period.  Let's discuss next time, but I think I could accept that sort of thing, if there were volunteers.
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] cody-somerville: Call for feedback from developers on Marco Rodrigues's request
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cody-somerville: Call for feedback from developers on Marco Rodrigues's request
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] PerPackageUploader Applications: Barry Warsaw for gtimelog
<MootBot> New Topic:  PerPackageUploader Applications: Barry Warsaw for gtimelog
<cjwatson> FIFO order for the rest of the agenda is barry then raphink
<cjwatson> ah yes :)
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BarryWarsaw/MyApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BarryWarsaw/MyApplication
<barry> hi guys
<cody-somerville> barry, Please briefly introduce yourself and the rationale for your request.
<barry> barry warsaw here.  i'm on platform foundations, and a long time python core dev.  i have ppu for a handful of packages and was recently given upstream commit privs to gtimelog.  since i'll be spinning packages for it i'd like to get ppu for gtimelog in ubuntu
<cody-somerville> barry, How many times have you uploaded gtimelog to Ubuntu?
<barry> cody-somerville, one sponsored upload.  the version in lucid was *way* out of date (squeeze too), so i worked w/upstream to get a new version out, then fixed the packaging and got sponsor to upload
<cody-somerville> barry, Does gtimelog use any patch system?
<barry> quilt3
<persia> barry, How is the state of gtimelog in Debian?
<geser> barry: I guess doko reviewed the new packaging before sponsoring. Did he found any issues you needed to fix?
<barry> persia, we need to get 0.4.0 into debian.  i've contacted the debian maintainer and between him, myself, and upstream author, we're trying to work out a transfer or cooperation
<barry> geser, no, i don't think so
<barry> persia, iirc the current registered deb maint for gtimelog is mia
<cody-somerville> barry, Do you you build your packages in a chroot before uploading to Ubuntu?
<persia> It's orphaned, actually: Debian bug #585145
<ubottu> Debian bug 585145 in wnpp "ITA: gtimelog -- minimal timelogging system" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/585145
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: (I don't ;-) )
<barry> cody-somerville, yep, and a ppa (~gtimelog-dev)
<cody-somerville> barry, Are you subscribed to bug reports filed against gtimelog in Ubuntu?
<barry> cody-somerville, i am
<barry> cody-somerville, upstream uses lp for bugs and i am now an admin for ~gtimelog-dev so i'm watching everything (at least i think i am ;)
<cody-somerville> Any other questions for barry before I call the vote?
 * stgraber doesn't have any.
 * cjwatson has none, other than get on with building enough breadth that we can just make you a MOTU already :-)
<persia> Or something else, as appropriate.
<barry> cjwatson, :)
<barry> persia, i actually think we should add some kind of python packageset
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] Grant Barry Warsaw PPU permission to gtimelog
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Grant Barry Warsaw PPU permission to gtimelog.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<stgraber> +1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia> +0 : insufficient prior history of work with the package: one upload does not show maintainance history
<MootBot> Abstention received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
 * stgraber is off to another meeting now
<cody-somerville> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
<barry> persia, ack. it's a rather slow moving package, but i do intend to do more bug fixing on it
<soren> o/
<cody-somerville> Is that successful?
<cjwatson> oh hello soren
<persia> barry, Understood.  Note that I was +0 rather than -1 because I know you'll do a good job on it, but I think that you don't qualify under PPU guidelines according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<persia> cody-somerville, Yes.
 * barry nods
<soren> Sorry, apparantly I suck at timezones.
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] Ubuntu Core Developer Application:  RaphaÃ«l Pinson (recovery)
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Ubuntu Core Developer Application:  RaphaÃ«l Pinson (recovery).
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cody-somerville> err..
<cody-somerville> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 0
 * cjwatson doesn't interpret the "uploads" there as a strict plural; it depends on the circumstances
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Core Developer Application:  RaphaÃ«l Pinson (recovery)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Core Developer Application:  RaphaÃ«l Pinson (recovery)
<raphink> hehe ;)
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-August/000098.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-August/000098.html
<raphink> I can give a summary here :-)
<cody-somerville> raphink, please do and please include a link to your launchpad page
<raphink> Hello, I'm Raphael Pinson. Some of you probably know me from my involvment in Kubuntu as a core-dev, mostly between 2005 and 2007. Since then, I have mostly worked as a Systems Engineer for a major telecom company and built a buildd/wanna-build/reprepro system to automate the creation of Debian/Ubuntu packages for a fleet of about 3000 servers. My recent involvment in Ubuntu has mostly been on projects like byobu (with kirkland) or augeas (
<raphink> with nxvl).
<raphink> Like I posted on the ML, some time ago, I lost my ubuntu-dev, ubuntu-coredev and ubuntu-members upload rights as I hadn't renewed my LP memberships. Thanks to the advice of canonical employees, I was able to get my ubuntu-members membership back so I can use my @ubuntu.com email again, but I would like to recover my upload rights as well. I have quite a few packages to contribute (mostly server software such as db5.0, mysql-server-5.1 or db
<raphink> xml) and I'd be happy to upload them.
<raphink> LP page: https://launchpad.net/~raphink
<soren> I hope none of that is intended for Maverick?
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~raphink
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~raphink
<raphink> the wiki page is a bit oldish probably ;-)
<raphink> soren: I'm not in a hurry to upload anything, and when it comes to db5.0 for example, I would certainly speak to the db4.8 package maintainer first ;-)
<raphink> although db5.0 doesn't exist in the repositories yet, so it wouldn't hurt
<nixternal> woo, i see raphink \o/
<raphink> haha, hi nixternal :-)
<cody-somerville> How long ago did your membership expire?
<raphink> hmmm probably almost a year ago I would say, not sure of the date
<raphink> the LP page for core-dev used to list deactivated members with the date
<soren> Expired on 2009-03-13
<cjwatson> Subject: raphink expired from team
<cjwatson> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 05:15:10 -0000
<raphink> ok :)
<soren> (According to https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+members  )
<raphink> you're better than me at finding these info :-)
<geser> raphink: what did you do to get up-to-date with current processes?
<persia> raphink, What caused you to let your development lapse?
<raphink> family :-)
<raphink> there's priorities in life, contributing is important to me, but it's not the #1 priority
<raphink> as far as processes and techiques geser
<raphink> like I said, I'm ftpmaster at my work
<raphink> so I'm the one training all the packagers in my company with all the packaging technos and processes (debian policy) when they need to
<raphink> that doesn't necessarily ensure I know everything about the latest processes inside Ubuntu
<raphink> but I'm up-to-date as far as packaging techniques go
<raphink> I would certainly ask if in doubt
<raphink> I know enough people around here to find experts in processes if I need to
<cody-somerville> I'm quite hungry so I'd like to call the vote if nobody has any other questions.
<raphink> hehe ;)
<cjwatson> no questions
<soren> I'm good.
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] Ubuntu Core Developer Application:  RaphaÃ«l Pinson (recovery)
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Ubuntu Core Developer Application:  RaphaÃ«l Pinson (recovery).
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cody-somerville> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> +1 # generally happy for people to return as long as they can put some time in again and have put some effort into catching up
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cody-somerville> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
<soren> (While I would prefer if people would just renew their memebership when Launchpad tells them to, I believe re-granting them their membership should be a formality)
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Select a chair for the next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Select a chair for the next meeting
<raphink> soren: sometimes you're on vacation when this happens ;-)
<soren> They could be as up-to-date (or out-of-date) as the ones who manage to click "Renew".
<raphink> thanks guys, enjoy your meal cody-somerville
<soren> raphink: Precisely.
<geser> the next meeting is at 19:00 UTC, right?
<cody-somerville> yup
<geser> then I should be able to chair it
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] geser to chair next meeting
<soren> Sorry about missing the first hour. /me adjusts calendar. :(
<MootBot> ACTION received:  geser to chair next meeting
<cody-somerville> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:16.
<persia> soren, I like to hear why people left, and what they plan to do when they come back.  We had a couple cases in the past where people seemed to want things for vanity reasons, and I think it's important we don't encourage our repositories to be more vulnerable.
<soren> persia: If they explicitly left, sure.
<soren> persia: If they exired, less so.
 * persia doesn't see much difference, since it's impossible to understand the mindset of folks not pressing the button
<soren> persia: Is you're really serious about checking up on people every once in a while, we shoulnd't let people refresh on their own, but always come before the DMB to get it refreshed.
<persia> That said, we could do a much better job about poking people who expire to ensure it's intentional.
<raphink> that's more work for sure
<persia> soren, I would prefer that were the case, personally.  The few discussions about it in which I've participated always fall down somewhere along the way.
<soren> persia: /me finds it equally impossible to understand the mindset of people who /do/ press the button.
<persia> raphink, I think that's the main reason we don't do it that way :)
<persia> soren, Compeltely agreed.
<raphink> from my experience, having your membership expire can be discouraging
<persia> soren, Weel, identically impossible, rather.
<raphink> as in, it might prevent you from uploading some things because you don't want to go through a process of renewal, DMB, etc.
<persia> Ideally that shouldn't be something people consider hard or scary.
<raphink> mhm
<persia> Note that getting from here to my ideal world is a long, long journey :)
<raphink> haha
<geser> raphink: is the renewal process to hard/easy?
<raphink> once you know about it, it's rather easy ;-)
<raphink> maybe it's lacking documentation (or I'm bad at finding it)
<geser> probably the first
<persia> I think the (limited) documentation is some email to the MC list a long time ago.
<raphink> persia: you were my documentation in that case iirc
<persia> heh, yeah.  I need to upload increasing chunks of my memory to the wiki, a bad habit I've had for years now, sadly.
<raphink> well, same here
<kees> mdeslaur, jdstrand, sbeattie, robbiew, nxvl, jjohansen: security team meeting! ready?
<jdstrand> o/
<mdeslaur> hi!
<sbeattie> hey
<kees> quorum!
<kees> okay, I'll start.
<jjohansen> \o
<kees> the update I was going to be working on has been delayed by upstream, so I'm going to find something else to do.
<kees> the CVE triage last week was mysteriously light. it scares me.
<mdeslaur> calm before the storm
<sbeattie> kees: that's because the week before, it was painful
<kees> ah-ha.
<sbeattie> kees: feel free to go back and review the umpteen webkit/chromium and other issues I triaged.
<robbiew> 0/
<kees> I've been fighting with the rng qrt; dieharder is yelling about minor stuff
<kees> sbeattie: let's hire someone to do that. :)
<kees> I'm working on an embargoed issue, but that's mostly done and the solution is simple and in the hands of who needs it.
 * jdstrand triaged some of the chromium ones
<kees> I've got a topic for the end, so I'll stop here. jdstrand is up
<jdstrand> last week I beat down a number of bugs in libvirt. one of them gave me a better understanding for my update
<jdstrand> I still have to do lucid testing of all the peripheral applications as mentioned before... maybe this is the week that happens...
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> I plan to do the get_file_list.sh audits (as part of ReleaseCycle) as well as do the qrt testing of applications that have apparmor profiles
<jdstrand> I need jjohansen's network mediation fix though
<kees> you mean maverick testing, yes?
<jdstrand> jjohansen: do have an amd64 kernel for maverick
<jjohansen> jdstrand: duh, I'll get you a kernel in about an hour
<jdstrand> kees: yes-- run the qrt tests on maverick
<jdstrand> kees: well, all of it-- all maverick, all the time
<jdstrand> these things and any new bugs that come in should keep me busy this week
<jdstrand> that's it from me. mdeslaur?
<mdeslaur> my turn
<mdeslaur> so, I finally released the fixes for CVE-2009-3555
<ubottu> The TLS protocol, and the SSL protocol 3.0 and possibly earlier, as used in Microsoft Internet Information Services (IIS) 7.0, mod_ssl in the Apache HTTP Server 2.2.14 and earlier, OpenSSL before 0.9.8l, GnuTLS 2.8.5 and earlier, Mozilla Network Security Services (NSS) 3.12.4 and earlier, multiple Cisco products, and other products, does not properly associate renegotiation handshakes with an existing connection, which allows man-in-the-middle att
<jdstrand> \o/
 * mdeslaur punches ubottu
<mdeslaur> and there hasn't been any bugs reported against them so far, so it's looking good :)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: great, great job
<jdstrand> jjohansen: oh, I forgot to thank you. thanks!
<kees> yeah, awesome work mdeslaur
<mdeslaur> this week, I'll be releasing: avahi, libgdiplus, libhx, libmikmod, lvm2 and mako updates
<kees> wooo!
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: is that all?
<jdstrand> slacker
<mdeslaur> lol
<jdstrand> :)
<kees> hehe
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie?
<sbeattie> I was on community last week.
<sbeattie> I released a quassel update and also moved ant from security-proposed.
<sbeattie> I still need to do an SRU upload for openjdk/lucid to address the haxb regressions, but want to look for other potential SRU fixes as well.
<sbeattie> this week I'm in the happy place, so I should be able to do that.
<sbeattie> I'm also hoping to pick up and push out a couple more updates.
<sbeattie> I think that's everything.
<sbeattie> Oh, as an aside, kees wasn't joking when he mention hiring someone for webkit security: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_UP-USE/
<sbeattie> (in case anyone reading is interested in applying)
<jdstrand> yep
<kees> that might be a twitter-worthy url, actually. I'll send that out.
<sbeattie> that's all from me.
<mdeslaur> oh! yeah, if you're a webkit hacker, please come join the coolest team: security! :)
<jdstrand> (as well as Mozilla and Chromium)
<jdstrand> and mozilla and chromium-- don't leave them out either :)
<mdeslaur> and mozilla and chromium
<mdeslaur> :)
<jdstrand> I have a quick item for the end as well
<kees> "Want to hack on webkit, chromium, firefox? Join the Ubuntu Security Team! http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_UP-USE/" <- sound good?
<mdeslaur> yes
<sbeattie> Works For Me.
<jdstrand> s/firefox/and firefox/
<jdstrand> but yes, sounds fun and positive :)
<kees> edited and sent
<kees> okay, jdstrand, you first on items
<jdstrand> we may want to do the same in #ubuntu-mozillateam, since that is where all the browser guys hang out
<jdstrand> oh, me, yes
<jdstrand> it would be good if we all peeked at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs for anything that we touch
<jdstrand> I did this morning and believe the apparmor and libvirt ones are in hand, but other people's eyes would be great
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: yeah, I took a look at the earlier
<jdstrand> I think there are ~142 bugs there
<jdstrand> cool
<jdstrand> that was all I had
<mdeslaur> there's libtiff that looked related to us
<mdeslaur> kees: ^
<kees> there are still a few libtiff issues that upstream is working on or worked on, yeah
<mdeslaur> cool
<kees> I wanted to have us think outloud about UDS planning.
<kees> we already talked about how we wanted to have roundtables and scatter ourselves around the UDS to help guide stuff, but do we have anything more specific we want to do?
<mdeslaur> kees: you mean stuff we'd like to cover in our roundtables?
<kees> mdeslaur: no I meant more specifically. blueprints we think we can't do without, etc?
<kees> mdeslaur: i.e. instead of last UDS's planning style ("what is anything we might be interested in?") I figured we could do "what is absolutely required?"
<jdstrand> kees: we need to meet as apparmor upstream for sure
<sbeattie> kees: I'm hoping to do a session with the qa team on increasing collaboration and usage of qa-r-t (again).
<jdstrand> most of my stuff last time is moving BPs forward to track things todo
<jdstrand> that sounded weird
<kees> I'd like to talk to soyuz folks again; I'd like to see incremental publication so we can publish amd64 kernels while we wait on sparc, for example.
<jdstrand> I have a lot todo; I'd like time to do it, but don't have a lot to discuss
<jdstrand> kees: that would be very welcome
<kees> jdstrand: yeah, agreed
<kees> okay, so I guess we'll each make the bps we're interested in and go from there. :) that's really it from me.
<jdstrand> kees: we could schedule some time to go through all the BPs and prioritize them into reality
<kees> jdstrand: all the existing ones, you mean?
<jdstrand> kees: ie, all the ones that didn't get completed-- at least for lucid and maverick
<jdstrand> kees: that is the idea, yeah
<jdstrand> we can reprioritize things
<jdstrand> (if needed)
<jdstrand> you know, so we don't lose track of old stuff that never got implemented due to time constraints and that we didn't move forward
<jdstrand> maybe there isn't a lot, but I feel like it would be worth reviewing
<kees> yup, totally. we did that for maverick too
<jdstrand> cool
<jdstrand> kees: speaking of bps, can you update https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-m-gpg-migration? should probably be at least 'Started'
<kees> yeah, good point.
<kees> "slow progress"
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: fwiw, evo in maverick seems just fine with the new keys
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: I bet you already knew that though
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: oh? I'm surprised
<jdstrand> kees: I bet tbird is going to be ok too, since lucid and maverick have tbird >= 3.0
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: I can verify sbeattie's USNs fine. I didn't try all the other stuff
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: oh, the problem was with sending email, not verifying it
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: but, it's probably fixed now
<kees> yeah, once we validate tbird, it's probably time to do the GPG migration. I will write up the how-to.
<jdstrand> kees: well, mdeslaur and I need evo to work :)
<mdeslaur> I'll test evo this week
 * sbeattie adds an apparmor todo item to migrate that project's key.
<kees> jdstrand: I thought evo was okay? "evo in maverick seems just fine with the new keys"
<kees> oh, er, I somehow skipped over "problem was with sending email"
<jdstrand> kees: a) mdeslaur said sending was an issue and b) part of the bp is lucid compatibility.
<kees> lucid!? that's so OOOOLD ;)
<jdstrand> though if all but lucid/evo worked, I wonder if we could consider migrating our keys anyway
<jdstrand> perhaps a disussion for after mdeslaur does his evaluation
<kees> sounds good.
<kees> sbeattie: did you follow the migration process that the debian folks published?
<sbeattie> kees: yes.
<jdstrand> kees: I don't have anything more wrt UDS otoh. I'd like to think about it more though
<mdeslaur> well, if our users are running evo on lucid and can't verify our email signatures, that would be bad(tm)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: well, verifying does work on maverick-- but like you said, it needs to be evaluated fully
<jdstrand> (ie, maybe verifying worked in lucid too)
<kees> okay, anything else anyone wants to bring up?
<jdstrand> kees: you are only working on dieharder with the rng?
<jdstrand> I was planning to fire up some ec2 instances for rng !dieharder
<kees> jdstrand: yeah, haven't done the non-dieharder tests. saw "$100" and decided to stay away :)
<jdstrand> kees: hehe
<jdstrand> I was told that is not a problem
<jdstrand> kees: I'll take non-dieharder
<kees> jdstrand: okay, cool
<kees> alright, sounds like we're done. thanks!
<jdstrand> thanks kees!
<mdeslaur> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-28
<Vantrax> Summoning Asia-Oceania RMB, persia, fenris,
<Vantrax> Summoning Asia-Oceania RMB, persia, fenris, elky, takdir, lifeless, freeflying, amachu
<freeflying> Vantrax: hi
<Vantrax> hiya
<czajkowski> if yer stuck I'm about
<Vantrax> might be, bad run lately >.<
<elky> Vantrax, hi
<Vantrax> hi elky
 * persia is about
<Vantrax> czajkowski, which RMB are you on btw?
<Vantrax> hi takdir
<czajkowski> Vantrax: EMEA
<takdir> hi Vantrax
<czajkowski> you've 5 so you seem to be ok now
<Vantrax> fyi if you didnt already know RMB peoples we have two extra items to get through today
<Vantrax> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 05:01. The chair is Vantrax.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Vantrax> Prabhash Rajarathne
<Vantrax> are you present
<Prabhash> yes
<Vantrax> Please introduce yourself
<Prabhash> Hi I'm Prabhash Rajarathne from Kandy
<Prabhash> I'm currently contributing for Linux Localization Projects
<Prabhash> empathy is my full Localization Project
<Prabhash> Ah Kandy is 2nd Main city of SRI LANKA
<Prabhash> Vantrax anything else I wanna tell??
<Vantrax> your working with l10n for Ubuntu but not a member of the team and have no karma?
<Prabhash> ya
<elky> Is this linux localisation project thing an Ubuntu team?
<Vantrax> My question then is where is your contribution recorded, and why do you not have testimonials from the group to support you?
<Vantrax> I do like that you are teaching teachers Ubuntu, thats a good way to go
<Prabhash> No I'm doing localization for Ubuntu as well as Fedora
<Prabhash> I'm Mainly doing that Teacher Training programmes
<Prabhash> Thanks Vantrax
<Vantrax> A large part of the requirement for membership is a sustained contribution to the Ubuntu community, from what you have provided we have little to work from to identify your contribution. How do you contribute specifically to the Ubuntu community
<freeflying> Prabhash: where can I find the training you've done?
<Prabhash> what you mean  freeflying ?
<freeflying> Prabhash: any article/blog/press news about your training?
<Prabhash> unfortunatly theres know articles about that but have some Facebook Pictures
<Vantrax> Prabhash from what you have shown we have little to go off, I would recommend you revisit this process in a few months but in the mean time check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SriLankanTeam, http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-Sri-Lanka/234185506302 and contact https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AbdulHaleem
<Vantrax> The best thing to do for work like what you have been doing is to have active members of the Sri Lanka loco support you in your application through testimonials or coming here to support you in person
<Vantrax> It looks to me like you are on the right track, just a little under prepared this time:P
<Vantrax> You need to show us that you have been contributing for a sustained period of time (typically 6 months), part of this can be testimonials from other people in the community supporting you and the work you do in education
<Vantrax> I would also suggest getting in touch with the ubuntu manual/ubuntu education groups
<Vantrax> Does that all make sense Prabhash
<Prabhash> ya
<Vantrax> Okies, any questions before we move on?
<Prabhash> No
<Vantrax> Mohana Kumar are you here and ready?
<Mohan_chml> Vantrax: Yes
<Vantrax> Thank you for coming Prabhash
<Vantrax> Please introduce yourself
<Mohan_chml> Hello all. I am Mohana kumar [ wiki.ubuntu.com/Mohan_chml ]. I am from Tamil Nadu, India. I like advocating for Ubuntu in a convincing way, among the mass. I am working in Ubuntu for the past two years. I like helping people with issues anytime, to my best and like to spread Ubuntu everywhere.
<Mohan_chml> I believe in support from the back rather than just making people to migrate and to try working out their problems by themselves. I made in and around 150 people near my locality to work in Ubuntu and successfully managing them to not to get back from Ubuntu. I managed to install Ubuntu in my college for 60 machines and I am currently working on listing the Free Software alternatives for Proprietary software.
<Vantrax> btw prabhash, i recommend you check Mohan_chml's wiki page, its a great example
<Prabhash> ya sure
 * Vantrax has no questions for mohi (mohi is in BT like me)
<Mohan_chml> I switched over from Win X for its lack of security and vulnerabilities. I mostly involve in helping people at #ubuntu-beginners, where I learned a lot and I am currently a member of UBT. Till now I spent time with around 1000 people in 6 Colleges and I am helping the beginners who like to switch over. I initiate people to try Dual boot and then shift completely. I |am/and will be| serving for Ubuntu at my best wherever I go.
<Mohan_chml> Vantrax: =]
 * Vantrax waits for persia to ask one of his patented awsome questions
<persia> Mohan_chml, Are the materials you used in the seminar you conducted available anywhere?  Similarly, has your work in documentation extended to documenting advocacy?
<Mohan_chml> I do not have a written document. But my friend akkash is here as we worked together in FSFTN workshops [ http://fsftn.org/content/workshop-vcet-1 ]
<Vantrax> I lied... where are you based mohi?
<Vantrax> nm.. you already answered that, I lied again
<Mohan_chml> I can't get you Vantrax
<akkash> Hi Persia , Vantrax . I am mohan's friend we organized a workshop for college students . Around 300 + participated in the workshop.http://www.fsftn.org/content/workshop-vcet-1
<persia> Towards what were the proceeds applied?
<akkash> I missed the opportunity to participate in another workshop conducted in Kovilpatti. Which mohan participated .http://www.fsftn.org/content/workshop-kovilpati-1
<Mohan_chml> persia: I have no documetation of my work till now and to be true, none knows about even Linux here. I Move along with FSFTN and I demonstrate the people about Ubuntu
<Mohan_chml> persia: My whole Beginners team knows what I am doing daily and that is the only log that I can search for you for updates
<Vantrax> I can confirm alof of the testimonies given to mohi and have seen his work since he joined the Beginners Team. He has been done great work in IRC support as well as his events in India
<Mohan_chml> persia: I have my Blog http://infodevils.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/two-days-foss-workshop-at-national-engineering-college/ for an FSF speech
<Vantrax> Any more questions for mohi? or are we happy to proceed?
<duanedesign> I am here to cheer on Mohan_chml :)
 * persia has no more questions
<Mohan_chml> heya duanedesign =]
<andrew_46> Lots of cheers here as well :)
<Vantrax> [VOTE] Mohana Kumar for Ubuntu Membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Mohana Kumar for Ubuntu Membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<elky> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from elky. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<akkash> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from akkash. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Mohan_chml> akkash: you can't
<akkash> oops soory
<Vantrax> lol only RMB memebers votes are counted akkash
<akkash> sorry
<Vantrax> it happens, quite often
<Mohan_chml> sorry for that Vantrax
<Vantrax> poke takdir
<Vantrax> or czajkowski
<persia> +1
<takdir> +1 for Mohan_chml
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> +1 received from takdir. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Vantrax> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<Vantrax> Grats Mohi
<elky> Hmm, close call :P
<Mohan_chml> Ty guys
<andrew_46> Mohan_chml: Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<hyperair> congrats Mohan_chml
<Vantrax> last but not least, Gary Dean your up
<duanedesign> \o/
 * KuKuKaChu is here
<Mohan_chml> ty andrew_46 and hyperair and duanedesign  for making your presence
<KuKuKaChu> I am Gary Dean, aka KuKuKaChu.
<KuKuKaChu> I am a business management consultant in Jakarta, Indonesia (http://www.okusiassociates.com)
<KuKuKaChu> I also operate a smaller computer support business (http://www.okusicomputersupport.com) specialising in setting up Ubuntu servers for small and medium businesses.
<KuKuKaChu> I guess my main contribution to ubuntu is setting up a forum for Indonesian users of Ubuntu (http://ubuntu-indonesia.com).
<KuKuKaChu> I have actively promoted use of Ubuntu in Indonesia, including producing at my own expense 1000 CDs for free distribution in Indonesia.
<KuKuKaChu> i also actively promote Ubuntu through my websites.
<Vantrax> that is a pretty major forum, and alot of CDs
<KuKuKaChu> I also sometimes contribute Indonesian translations, though not as often as a should.
<KuKuKaChu> vantrax, yes, it got rather big :)
<Vantrax> I can see that, you are a little light on the translation side, something you plan on doing more of, or will you be focused on the forum and spreading the 'gospel' of ubuntu?
 * Vantrax is constantly amazed how much ubuntu seems like a cult of linux:P
<persia> KuKuKaChu, How would you describe the relation between BlankOn and Ubuntu?
<takdir> KuKuKaChu, there is an ubuntu community at Jakarta, it's named Ubuntu Metro. this is a part of Ubuntu-ID. what is your plan to ubuntu community at Jakarta ? or do you just active in ubuntu-indonesia.com forum ?
<KuKuKaChu> far question. i'm planning on contributing more to translations, as i know i can do a good job of it, but my time is very limited. i run a very busy company, and promoting ubuntu is a bit of an indulgence.
<KuKuKaChu> before setting up ubuntu-indonesia.com i tried contacting people at ubuntu-id.org about the forum on that site, which was permanently unavailable.  i never got replies.
<KuKuKaChu> i;ve never heard of Ubuntu Metro
<takdir> ubuntu metro : http://groups.google.com/group/id-ubuntu/browse_thread/thread/a86b7c902a8359c0/cc656b91be43f4a0?lnk=gst&q=Ubuntu+Jakarta#cc656b91be43f4a0
<KuKuKaChu> i am mainly active in ubuntu-indonesia.com
 * Vantrax thinks takdir and KuKuKaChu should chat:P
<Vantrax> anyone still need to ask more questions/need more time?
 * persia is still waiting for an answer
<KuKuKaChu> persia, sorry didnt see that
<Vantrax> KuKuKaChu, [20:41] <persia> KuKuKaChu, How would you describe the relation between BlankOn and Ubuntu?
<didrocks> Riddell: do you think there is still an opened window for a late unity upload fixing an issue with nautilus on file copy?
<persia> didrocks, ECHAN ?
<KuKuKaChu> well, i've never felt compeltely comfortable with the blankon project. i feel a properly translated Ubuntu should be sufficient
<didrocks> persia: urgh, right :)
<persia> Vantrax, Shall we proceed?
<Vantrax> [VOTE] KuKuKaChi for Ubuntu Membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  KuKuKaChi for Ubuntu Membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<takdir> KuKuKaChu, may be you should have testimonial from ubuntu-indonesia.com member and ubuntu-id community especially from Jakarta ? :)
<persia> +0 : lots of great work, but uncertain integration with other (accepted) groups in Indonesia: would benefit from review/integration and discussion with takdir and (hopefully) return shortly.
<MootBot> Abstention received from persia. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<Vantrax> +0 Same reason as persia, its about integration into the Ubuntu community as much as the contribution (which is great)
<MootBot> Abstention received from Vantrax. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<elky> +0 same
<MootBot> Abstention received from elky. 0 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
<freeflying> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from freeflying. 0 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 0
<Vantrax> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 0 against. 4 abstained. Total: 0
<takdir> +0 .. there is a great ubuntu indonesia forum since ubuntu-id forum is not active, may we should communicate at ubuntu-id milist
<Vantrax> I would REALLY encourage you to come back in a few months after getting more plugged into your LoCo and other Ubuntu groups in your area.
<Vantrax> do you have any questions or comments KuKuKaChu?
 * persia would be happy to see back in a few weeks even, if it was part of a general reintegration of the apparently fractured ubuntu-id community.
<KuKuKaChu> vantax, thanks. like i mentioned, my inability to make contact with the loco was my primary reason for go alone with ubuntu-indonesia, but hopefully now that i have made contact with takdir i can move forward and integrate it into the local forums
<Vantrax> I would suggest keeping in contact with takdir and he will likely have you reapplying soon
<KuKuKaChu> thank you, i shall
<Vantrax> Okies, a few other admin items quickly before we break
<persia> KuKuKaChu, And don't take this as indication you should close your forums: it's worth supporting those users, just in a way that helps bring everyone together for common sharing of solutions, etc.
<Vantrax> ..... if you closed it we would have to hunt you down :P
<Vantrax> Its a great thing, just not enough for your requirements on its own
<KuKuKaChu> persia, thanks. no intention of closing. i would be lynched! it has a life of it's own now!
<persia> Great!
<elky> This is incentive to finish integrating with the community at large :)
<Vantrax> Id like a volunteer to handle the team reporting function for the RMB. There are new reporting requirements (that require maintaining another wiki page) that we are not following and should be.
<takdir> Ok KuKuKaChu, we will waiting you at ubuntu-id ? :)
<elky> Vantrax, feel free to take over the paperwork! I shall not stop you
<Vantrax> my wiki-fu is weak
<KuKuKaChu> takdir, sure. answer your emails! ;)
<elky> :(
<elky> Vantrax, if you need "wiki-fu" then they're expecting an awful lot...
<Vantrax> and since i started this new job my free time is not much
<Vantrax> nhandler will step whoever wants to have a go through it all
<Vantrax> if no one wants it, ill look at it and revisit this in a month or two
<persia> Vantrax, I'll take it if you're too busy.  It's not much, and it's important.
<Vantrax> thanks persia
<elky> I have to admit I'm very much not in favour of the "Hi, we're your volunteers" "here, jump through these paperwork hoops" stuff that keeps snowballing.
<Vantrax> ill help you where I can
<Vantrax> Ok last bit, our CC approved restructure.
<persia> elky, This is unrelated to that.  Team Reporting is *OLD*, and is just getting revived so we have a way to share knowledge that is clearer than the current systems.
<elky> persia, if one needs "wiki fu" then there's somethign wrong
<Vantrax> The approved change is that to cover our area effectively is to expand the team, run two meetings each with a quorum of 4
<Vantrax> One meeting run at around 1900 GMT+5:30 and one at the current time or one hour earlier at 19:00 GMT+10.
<Vantrax> As you can all make this meeting I assume the current time is fine and possibly one more person in the GMT +10 region. As most of you can't make a much later time, I propose we add 3 more in the GMT+5-6 region.
<persia> elky, One doesn't really.
<persia> Vantrax, These are not good times.
<Vantrax> my definition of wiki-fu is rather broad:P
<Vantrax> recommendation then persia?
<Vantrax> I want to get this process kicked of this week
 * persia tries to do math
<persia> OK.  I'd suggest one about 8:00 UTC (Australia moves east in a week or so), and the other around 14:00 UTC (commutes in India are often very long).
<Vantrax> that would be a meeting starting 4-5 hours from now
<elky> Vantrax, which is fine for the indian/se-asian folks
<Vantrax> if you go to 8:00 UTC you might have issues with people being able to make it with getting home at aroud 6pm and dinner
<persia> Isn't that 22:00 in NZ, or did I do math wrong?
<elky> which is what we're already doing to the indian/se-asian folks
<elky> persia, nz is currently midnight right now
<Vantrax> yep
<elky> next week it'll be 10pm now for me
<persia> And it's 11:00 UTC.  OK.  I'm happy with 9:00 rather than 8:00.
<elky> Vantrax, you're melb or perth? can't remember
<persia> Key is that we can't have it late enough that it's never good in NZ.
<Vantrax> Brisbane, so im always on the same time
<Vantrax> how about we try with 0900 and 1400 and see how we go, we can move the times around if we find it doesnt work
<Vantrax> but do we all agree in principle, and on the times +-1hr
<persia> Works for me, except I wonder how many can attend the 14:00.
<persia> because I know at least three of us find that very late.
<Vantrax> that would be why we would recruit people in central and western asia
<Vantrax> to fill that
<Vantrax> for example, india, sri lanka, china
<persia> Right.  We need to be better at that (recruiting has been our continuing failure since we started).
<elky> nigelb, around?
<Vantrax> with 12 on the board and 4 required for quorum we should meet it more often now
<Vantrax> with this going ahead
<persia> China gets annoying because of the one-time-zone bit.  Being farther west doesn't help.
<Vantrax> persia, true
<Vantrax> always seemed odd that
<persia> Vantrax, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_China goes into great depth
<Vantrax> we are over time guys, ill be sending out an email to ubuntu members advertising positions tonight.
<elky> I nominate nigelb if he feels he's up to it
<Vantrax> he he he
<persia> Didn't we already get a nomination for him?  I thought I heard about one.
<Vantrax> yeah we did, before we called for em
<elky> I know he was considering it last time, but I don't know that anything happened
<Vantrax> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:10.
<elky> I think he might have had second thoughts, but that was months ago so he might be more easily coerced now :)
<Vantrax> ill send an email out shortly
<persia> I think we'd do well to check with everyone that has been nominated for various reasons previously, as we've put out previous calls for nominations, and not always acted on them clearly.
<Vantrax> good idea
<elky> persia, i agree. previous nominations were for a reason, and previous refusals might change with the new times
<persia> I'm not convinced we've responded to all the previous nominations, but I may be incorrect.
<persia> Anyway.  Any other business?
<Vantrax> nope, we done
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:59. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<rsalveti> hey
 * NCommander pokes GrueMaster dyfet ogra persia rsalveti and davidm
<dyfet> that tickles
 * ogra is here
<mpoirier> o?
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100928
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100928
<mpoirier> o/
 * GrueMaster grumbles over his ginormous coffee mug.
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to clear out assigned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to clear out assigned bugs
<NCommander> c/o
<ogra> well
<ogra> we'Re hard frozen now for RC
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<ogra> so you should have some time
<ogra> :P
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<davidm> G'day
<NCommander> morning davidm
<ogra> persia still has 3 todos
<ogra> making us touch the trendline !
<ogra> time to postpone them i'd say
<GrueMaster> Ouch.  It burns!
<persia> I've been postponing spec work, since none of it directly affected the release.  if it's causing you guys issues, I'll focus on that this week.
<ogra> juts makes us look bad in the chart
<persia> can't have that :)
<ogra> (the overall one)
<NCommander> [topic] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<ogra> the milestone release one lookd fine
<ogra> *looks
<ogra> NCommander, you could port erlang this week ;)
<NCommander> :-P
<NCommander> cna I move on?
<ogra> sure
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<mpoirier> It's going to be a shorter one this week:
<mpoirier> Marvel (mvl-dove):
<mpoirier>  * Marvell new LSP 5.3.5 drop has been integrated in Lucid.  Maverick is coming soon.
<mpoirier> Freescale (fsl-imx51):
<mpoirier>  * nothing new this week.
<mpoirier> OMAP3:
<mpoirier>  * SGX driver has been integrated to maverick and proven to work properly.  Will be introduced in N.
<mpoirier>  * ftrace graph tracing integration has been put on hold as it need a lot of work.
<mpoirier> OMAP4:
<mpoirier>  * B647890 - FIXED: Building error when turning off CONFIG_SMP
<mpoirier>  * B633227 - ONGOING: Instabilities with highmem activated - we have 1G memory without highmem but need to disable SMP or L2 cache.
<mpoirier>  * B637947 - ONGOING: A solution seems to be in line for panda with proper renaming of sound card.  Awaiting patch from TI.
<mpoirier> ..
<ogra> there is a dove metapackage upload missing
<ogra> the new kernel most likely wont end up in the images
<ogra> (bjf uploaded one yesterday)
<persia> I thought I saw a request in -release to push that pre-RC
<ogra> ah, ok
<ogra> i didnt follow release that closely, the spam^Wqueuebot was so noisy
<rsalveti> for bug 633227 we're still trying to find an easy way to reproduce it, to try to understand it better
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 633227 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "instabilities with highmem activated" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/633227
<GrueMaster> Hope they fix bug 634161 when they push it out.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 634161 in linux-mvl-dove (Ubuntu) "Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address 0ce003be - parport_pc driver load issue" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/634161
<rsalveti> even when we remove highmem of the picture, we still face the issue
<ogra> mpoirier, any plans to bring the IGEP2 stuff into an SRU post release ?
<persia> GrueMaster, It's just a meta-upload.  Nothing substantive.
<rsalveti> I was only able to make it work properly when running without highmem and no SMP, or no L2
<mpoirier> ogra: the new paches or support the board ?
<rsalveti> so probably a racing condition
<ogra> mpoirier, yep
<ogra> seems we have a lot progress on that platform
<ogra> would be sad to lose the fixes
<rsalveti> yup, would be good to push them forward
<GrueMaster> persia: The bug only requires turning off the parport_pc driver in the config.
<ogra> i understand they cant go into the release though
<ogra> but probably in a post release SRU
<rsalveti> post release would be fine
<mpoirier> ogra: I think time started that - I'll look into it.
<ogra> no hurry though
<persia> GrueMaster, Right, but config is part of the source package for the kernel, not the -meta source package: unlikely the release team will approve such an upload, as it breaks the installer, etc.
<NCommander> cna I move on?
<rsalveti> and would be good if at least one of us could get one, to be able to check and test the kernel
<ogra> post release is ... well after release :)
<ogra> how is the progress on sound on OMAP4 ?
<mpoirier> After conversation on alsa-soc yesterday it is clear the fix is not in the kernel.
 * ogra didnt see much discussion in #ubuntu-arm recently
<mpoirier> putting it there, even nicely, would be refused by upstream and therefore wasted time.
<ogra> mind to update us on that ?
<ogra> what exactly is required and what do we have
<mpoirier> well, soc guys have purposely avoided putting a scheme forward for config in kernel.
<persia> mpoirier, I read that differently: I read it as changing the kernel to ensure we had unique strings, and then creating userspace configs.
<mpoirier> persia: I never denied that.
<persia> Sorry, then I misunderstood your "the fix is not in the kernel".
<mpoirier> persia: we won't apply the configs for the cards in the kernel.
<mpoirier> the kernel names the card properly, which is pickup in userspace, where configs files are.
<persia> berco has some config files that mostly work for panda: the same scheme could probably be extended to other boards.  There's an outstanding issue with saving the mixer state on reboot which needs investigation (if someone can replicate on beagle, I'm happy to investigate, but that requires someone with panda and beagle to confirm it's a parallel issue)
<GrueMaster> Sounds like something for me to test.
<ogra> so we'll use /usr/share/alsa* and the kernel gets a patch that /usr/share/alsa picks up stuff properly ?
<mpoirier> we still have a problem in omap3 where cards for beagle C4, XM and gumstix are named the same.
<mpoirier> ogra: yes.
 * ogra is most concerned about OMAP4 atm :)
<persia> ogra, Precisely.
<ogra> OAMP3 is all nice to have
<mpoirier> again, if we want to follow the same in omap3, a little bit of work is needed.
<persia> mpoirier, Do we have differentiation for the differing wiremaps for the omap4 variants?
<mpoirier> having a common solution for all our omapX platform would be nice.
<GrueMaster> We have the same issue in Dove as well.
<mpoirier> persia: omap4 variants ?
<persia> We have the same issue for all SoCs where the kernel driver is reporting the codec chip rather than a unique per-wiremap string.
<persia> mpoirier, I've at least heard "panda" and "blaze" mentioned on #ubuntu-arm.  I presume there are more design wins pending.
<ogra> persia, we dont even have HW to test atm
<persia> ogra, That hasn't been a blocker before :)
<ogra> no ES2.0 blazes around currently
<ogra> i'm sure you can get a wiremap though
<mpoirier> i thought blaze was an omap3... I am I correct ?
<ogra> no
<ogra> blaze is omap4
<mpoirier> ok.
<GrueMaster> persia: W/o hw, we don't know what future designs will entail.
<mpoirier> Again, the problem is exactly the same as omap3.
<mpoirier> the name of the card is reported with no information on the platform.
<ogra> blaze likely has a lot more options than panda
<persia> GrueMaster, Right, but if we design something that is sufficiently modular that it will be a trivial patch for new designs, that's far better than assuming one device is the only way an SoC will behave.
<ogra> but thats userspace stuff then as i understand
<GrueMaster> persia: Best to let the kernel expose all and tweak it in user space on a case by case basis.
<GrueMaster> reduces kernel bloat, faster to fix.
<persia> ogra, kernelspace needs to report a unique string.  userspace can then use that unique string to set configuration through autodetection.
<persia> GrueMaster, Indeed.  Precisely.
<ogra> persia, right
<mpoirier> persia: that's what I'be been saying.
<persia> Right.
<mpoirier> I had a chat with Irg on that front.
<mpoirier> let see what they come back with.
<NCommander> I hate to be a pain, but we have other things ot discuss, can we movw past kernel  bugs?
<ogra> other things ?
<mpoirier> ..
<ogra> more important than kernel bugs ?
<ogra> cant be
<NCommander> on the agenda
<ogra> :)
<ogra> move
<NCommander> :-p
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> Not much to report.  Still finding obscure bugs.  Main focus has been on Dove audio (since omap audio is currently covered).
<GrueMaster> I have a couple of bugs that I need to file, but absolutely no idea what to file against.
<GrueMaster> Will try consulting #ubuntu-bugs again after the meeting.
<NCommander> GrueMaster: pokem after the meeting and I'll help
<NCommander> [topic]  * ARM Porting/FTBFS status ([[MichaelCasadevall|NCommander]], [[DavidSugar|dyfet]])
<MootBot> New Topic:   * ARM Porting/FTBFS status ([[MichaelCasadevall|NCommander]], [[DavidSugar|dyfet]])
<NCommander> pp[s
<NCommander> *opps
<ogra> NCommander, tsk
<GrueMaster> (and I guess I'm done).
<NCommander> Nothing new to report
<ogra> let tobin finish :)
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> hooray for complete messup :P
<GrueMaster> Still looking into a bug query that is more useful to us.
<NCommander> ;-P
<GrueMaster> Not much else to report other than the images have been having build issues.
<ogra> move ?
<GrueMaster> move
<NCommander> [topic]  ARM Image Status
<MootBot> New Topic:   ARM Image Status
<ogra> NCommander, skipping FTBFS ?
<NCommander> ailed to build due to archive skew due to libgtk+2.0
<NCommander> ogra: already did it
<ogra> no
<ogra> you mumble jumbled around
 * ogra has been heavily grilled for FTBFS stuff by the release team
<NCommander> [topic]  * ARM Porting/FTBFS stats NCommander/dyfet
<MootBot> New Topic:   * ARM Porting/FTBFS stats NCommander/dyfet
<ogra> the plplot disaster mader it all up to the release manager level
<dyfet> I had worked on plplot yesterday, but it seems uneeded
<ogra> the bug was lying dead for two weeks ...
<ogra> please, if you cant work on bugs, tell me
<ogra> it was pretty bad
<persia> Um, about images, today is the day RC images spin, so it's kinda important to get them sorted...
<ogra> persia, we'll get to that
<persia> OK :)
<ogra> NCommander, that was all i had to say about FTBFS
<ogra> doko worked the whole wekend apparently to solve the issue
<ogra> after we didnt move a bit on that bug
<ogra> NCommander, move :)
<NCommander> [topic]  ARM Image Status
<MootBot> New Topic:   ARM Image Status
<doko> ahh, that was the weekend before. just had the idea to ask upstream
<ogra> should be building fine again with the next build
<ogra> doko, thanks anyway for saving our butts
<ogra> :)
<ogra> the omap3 image had an issue with switching to linaro u-boot since that wasnt seeded yet
<ogra> thats why we ended up without partition table on it
<GrueMaster> oops
<persia> So vstehle's bug is closed now?
<ogra> beyond that the archive is in bad state currently
<ogra> persia, fix committed
<ogra> i'll set it to released after a testbuild
<persia> OK.
<ogra> once the archive has setteled
<persia> Be glad you aren't trying to make this work on powerpc :)
<ogra> also we're in RC preparation ... no manual builds ... Riddell is the master of antimony now
<persia> Or, hrm.  Seems things are mostly caught up again.
<ogra> all builds should be channelled or at least nodded off by him
<ogra> (image builds i mean)
 * Riddell feels the power
<ogra> :)
<ogra> NCommander, anything from you for images ?
<GrueMaster> how long will it take to churn through the gtk update?
<ogra> dove builds all fine ?
<ogra> GrueMaster, just watch the build queue :)
<GrueMaster> yea, that will keep me awake.  :P
<ogra> its exciting :)
 * ogra tickles NCommander 
<davidm> NCommander, anything from you on images?
 * davidm thinks NCommander needs a better Internet connection
<ogra> or stronger coffee
<ogra> well, we still have nearly 30 min ...
<ogra> *twiddle*
<davidm> We what is next on the agenda?
<NCommander> sory, laptop haes me
<davidm> Ah he's back
<davidm> NCommander, , anything from you for images ?
<NCommander> Worked on Dove ubiquity iconand other things
<NCommander> go a patch but didn'tmake it in tfrom rc freeze, will test it some more and submit it before EOD today
<NCommander> I think that's it for me
<NCommander> [topic] ABO
<MootBot> New Topic:  ABO
<NCommander> folks, its spec drafting time
<NCommander> onl6 news I have
<ogra> and activity report time too :)
<ogra> only rsalveti has submitted his yet
<ogra> we others suck !
<NCommander> anyway, anything else, or I am going to close out the meeting
 * GrueMaster is ready to post
<NCommander> once
<NCommander> twice
 * ogra not but will do so today
<NCommander> three timeis the charm
<NCommander> and good night folks
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:41.
 * NCommander goes AFK
<JFo> o/
 * JFo starts the wave
<JFo> \o/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (lag)
<bjf> lag is on vacation, anyone have status?
<bjf> guess not, moving on
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<JFo> please note that the statistics are for a 2 week time period:
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (5 bugs, 9 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Release Milestoned Bugs (26 across all packages (down 45)) ====
<JFo>  * 1 linux kernel bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<tgardner> bjf,  lag chases snakes in his sleep. does taht count?
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (144 across all packages (down 51)) ====
<JFo>  * 13 linux kernel bugs (up 6)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (down 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (down 1)
<JFo>  * 2 linux-mvl-dove bugs (down 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (down 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 13 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:121 (down 2) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> heh
<JFo> ..
<bjf> tgardner, it does and will be noted in the meeting minutes
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<JFo> remaining items postponed. To be discussed at UDS.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> so i will remove this from the agenda
<JFo> thank you sir
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The Maverick Release Candidate comes out this Thurs Sept 30 and the Release Team has stopped processing upload requests for the Ubuntu 10.10 Release Candidate. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCandidateProcess for more info.
<ogasawara> We've been queuing patches for Maverick SRU which includes the latest 2.6.35.5 and 2.6.35.6 stable updates.  We are also planning a 0-day kernel upload which has been documented at bug 647071 .  I'd finally like to point out that we have closed out all Maverick blueprint work items \o/.  We have been and will be below the trend line for the entire Maverick cycle for our overall burn down chart.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 647071 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "0-day Maverick Kernel Upload" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/647071
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone ubuntu-10.10
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone ubuntu-10.10
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Lucid/Karmic/Jaunty/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Lucid/Karmic/Jaunty/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> ||                   || Upd./Sec.     || Proposed      || TiP || Verified    ||
<smb> || Dapper: Kernel    || 2.6.15-55.88  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Hardy:  Kernel    || 2.6.24-28.79  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       LRM       || 2.6.24.18-28.7||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Jaunty: Kernel    || 2.6.28-19.65  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Karmic: Kernel    || 2.6.31-22.65  || 2.6.31-22.66  ||   5 ||  1/ 4 (+ 1) ||
<smb> || =       mvl-dove  || 2.6.31-214.30 || 2.6.31-214.32 ||   5 ||  1/ 4 (+ 1) ||
<smb> || =       fsl-imx51 || -- retired -- ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ec2       || 2.6.31-307.17 || 2.6.32-307.18 ||   5 ||  1/ 4 (+ 1) ||
<smb> || Lucid:  Kernel    || 2.6.32-25.44  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       LBM       || 2.6.32-25.23  || 2.6.32-25.24  ||   1 ||  0/ 1       ||
<smb> || =       mvl-dove  || 2.6.32-209.25 || 2.6.32-211.27 ||   0 ||             ||
<smb> || =       fsl-imx51 || 2.6.31-608.19 || 2.6.31-608.20 ||   0 ||             ||
<smb> || =       ti-omap   || 2.6.33-502.10 || (in progress) ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ec2       || 2.6.32-308.16 || (in progress) ||     ||             ||
<smb>  * The Lucid proposed kernel has been moved to updates. Topic branch updates
<smb>    which are rebased against this have or will be uploaded.
<smb>  * Karmic fsl-imx51 has been retired.
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> 629 Maverick Bugs (up 96)
<JFo> 978 Lucid Bugs (down 58)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential ====
<JFo>   * 320 maverick bugs (up 48)
<JFo>   * 160 lucid bugs (down 10: to be converted to regression-release)
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 55 lucid bugs (up 8)
<JFo>   * 7 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 4 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 170 lucid bugs (down 11)
<JFo>   * 36 karmic bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 17 jaunty bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (down 1)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 6 lucid bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> Jaunty bugs will be closed and removed from this list once Jaunty EOLs
<JFo> ..
<bjf> i didn't notice any comments regarding my email about most of the new bugs are "kerneloops" generated
<JFo> ah, I meant to respond to that
 * cking will attend to that at some point
<JFo> Colin and I are working to enhance my knowledge on oopses
<JFo> so there will be more coming on that front
<JFo> ..
<JFo> oh
<JFo> speaking of kerneloops
<JFo> ogasawara, is there some point when I need to ask to have oopses turned back off?
<bjf> yes?
<JFo> I can follow up on that offline
<ogasawara> JFo: usually they'll turn it off when we release, but it wouldn't hurt to remind them
<JFo> sorry bjf
<JFo> ogasawara, will do
<JFo> ..
<bjf> JFo, np, that's why we're here
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> I've put off the bug day till next week due to the past week of traveling. The next Kernel Community Bug Day will be on bugs in the New status improperly.
<JFo> There are curently about 1500 bugs in the New state.
<JFo> My guess is that many of these are the result of people simply marking Expired bugs to new without doing the requested tasks.
<JFo> The majority should move to Invalid or Triaged depending on the reporters interaction.
<JFo> We will continue to have the Team Bug Day to address the Top 50 list as half days on Friday and Monday unless someone has an objection.
<JFo> Reviewers, please take a look at your needs-review lists and help us keep the process moving. There are several lists that are not getting a look.
<JFo> Please also take ownership of your bugs as you work them so we can get them fixed or otherwise off the list. There are a number in need of love.
<JFo> There are several subsystems owned by all that need to be reviewed for inclusion in our top 50 list.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> why are we seeing the "New" graph going up but not the "Triaged"?
<bjf> shouldn't our scripts be moving more bugs to "Triaged"?
<JFo> I think mainly due to the habit of people to change bugs to new when they are expired
<JFo> bjf, they do but we are only getting to a few due to these improper new bugs
<JFo> so the scripts aren't able to get to most of them
<bjf> thanks
<bjf> ..
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> There was a surprising amount of attendance in the UHS Kernel Bugs talk and a  number of the participants were actively listening, so I hope this means that we will have some good buy in on the process form these folks should any of them come on board with hardware/kernel bugs.
<JFo> Since I was traveling, I have not had the chance to interact with the community over the past week.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> huh, well then ...
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:13.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<kamal> thanks bjf
<sconklin> thanks
<smb> bjf, ta
<cking> thanks bjf
<cking> sweet and short
<zul> afternoon
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<smoser> o/
<mathiaz> o/
<JamesPage> o/
<ttx> \o
<Daviey> -o-
<RoAkSoAx> O_o
<SpamapS> o/
<ttx> waiting on chair (kirkland)
 * kirkland is here, but not really here
<ttx> smoser: can you take it ?
<jiboumans> d'oh
<hggdh> oh. kirkland has been replaced by a Turing machine
<smoser> ugh. yes.
<ttx> or Heisenberg cat
<smoser> ok. /me is scribe.
<Daviey> automata !
<zul> or a drinking duck
<smoser> how do i do this ?
<smoser> doc on how to start meeting and commands and such ?
<jiboumans> smoser: #startmeeting
<smoser> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:04. The chair is smoser.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> and #topic
<smoser> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> hmm, I mean [TOPIC] and [ACTION]
<ttx> sorry
<smoser> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser>  * jib to check with kim0 if he can attend meetings regularly ro not
<kim0> I can
<jiboumans> smoser: that was done already last meeting though :)
<jiboumans> and tada, there he is!
<kim0> lol
<smoser> pfft
<smoser>  * ttx to add link to server-mrs tag search from the releasestatus wiki page
<ttx> done
<smoser>  * SpamapS to look at the state of drizzle in maverick - if it build this week ScottK to accept FFe
<smoser> SpamapS, ^
<SpamapS> sorry
<SpamapS> still not great
<SpamapS> It builds
<SpamapS> and tests ok
<SpamapS> but there are copyright ambiguities that have prevented it from passing ftp master approval in sid
<SpamapS> I THINK we have addressed them all now
<SpamapS> But, the state is currently "maybe".
<smoser> so we're still hoping for something in maverick ? i would have thought we were passed any reasonable freeze date.
<SpamapS> Given that it is completely broken for i386, and a VERY old build, ScottK's willing to sponsor the exception as long as it hits debian first.
<ttx> smoser: it's in universe
<ttx> smoser: so it doesn't affect any release deliverable
<Daviey> SpamapS, I thought he said that deal was only good for last week?
<smoser> ah. ok.
<ttx> smoser: but still.
<SpamapS> Daviey: indeed, for "1 week".. so today is the end of that.
<Daviey> lol
<SpamapS> We're going to keep pushing and get it into sid.
<smoser> ok. i think this is marked as "not going to happen" for maverick
<mathiaz> SpamapS: you can probably get it accepted until the archive is also frozen for universe
<SpamapS> If that takes 3 more days, then it will probably have to be broken in maverick. :-/
<mathiaz> SpamapS: should be it removed instead?
<SpamapS> mathiaz: probably. Its an alpha version now.. the beta, which is releasing pretty much as we speak, is quite different.
<SpamapS> and guarantees on disk and API compatibility with future releases
<SpamapS> first time drizzle has ever done that.
<ttx> SpamapS: do your best. I can live with or without it
<SpamapS> anyway, state of the action item is that the status in maverick is still broken, and that we are pushing quite hard to get it done and into maverick before the archive is frozen.
<SpamapS> Its more important to drizzle than it is to us IMO.
<smoser> [ACTION] SpamapS to chase drizzle in maverick decide between "broken" and "removed" with slight possibility of "beta"
<MootBot> ACTION received:  SpamapS to chase drizzle in maverick decide between "broken" and "removed" with slight possibility of "beta"
<smoser> reasonable ^ ?
<SpamapS> quite, thanks.
<smoser> moving on
<smoser>  * jiboumans to send an email to ubuntu-server@ and/or blog post for call for ideas
<jiboumans> i assumed we had that as part of the minutes actually
<jiboumans> but thinking about it, a seperate call is probably a good idea
<jiboumans> so, not done, but will do - carry over
<smoser> [ACTION] jiboumans to send an email to ubuntu-server@ and/or blog post for call for ideas
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jiboumans to send an email to ubuntu-server@ and/or blog post for call for ideas
<smoser>  * mathiaz to send out a call for ideas on ubuntu to the puppet community
<smoser> [
<mathiaz> smoser: not done - carry over
<smoser> [ACTION] (carryover) mathiaz to send out a call for ideas on ubuntu to the puppet community
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (carryover) mathiaz to send out a call for ideas on ubuntu to the puppet community
<smoser> ok. moving on.
<smoser> [TOPIC] Maverick development (jib)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick development (jib)
<jiboumans> With RC this Thursday, the main focus is the nail any critical bugs; daily triage is *essential* at this point (remember to update your work items!). At RC time, ISO testing, ISO testing and maybe some more ISO testing :) It's time to shake out the last snags so we can ship a release we can be really proud of. For those not on the release path, Friday and onwards will allow you to focus on Natty proposals if there are no critical bugs; the idea
<jiboumans> pool is already filling up nicely and the time to put some meat in those ideas is next week.
<jiboumans> our goal is to have a solid idea list by friday for Natty, and some real meat to those ideas by next friday
<jiboumans> that will serve as the input for UDS sessions
<jiboumans> as mentioned, I'll mail this out in a post to the mailing list as well
<smoser> Where do list items go ?
<jiboumans> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/NattyIdeaPool # add your ideas here
<jiboumans> and thanks to all who already contributed
<smoser> gracias.
<SpamapS> I know jorge put out an email/video on what to do.. but I haven't really had any time to devote to it. We need to have all of our ideas in the list by Friday?
<ttx> I sorted it, somehow
<SpamapS> oh thats something different?
<ttx> SpamapS: the list is more for brainstorming/awareness
<jiboumans> spamaps: this is the idea pool and just that - thinks worth exploring
<jiboumans> the exploration to happen next week
<SpamapS> 10-4
<jiboumans> that's it for Maverick I think, and also with Natty ramp up
<smoser> [TOPIC] RC release status (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  RC release status (ttx)
<ttx> I think jiboumans summed it well... No more milestoned bugs
<ttx> On high/critical maverick bug, a placeholder about eucalyptus upgrade issues
<Daviey> (fix being tested)
<ttx> ack
<smoser> [TOPIC] The road to 10.10.10 release (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  The road to 10.10.10 release (ttx)
<ttx> So, the current step is ISO testing
<ttx> we have candidates up
<ttx> That can start now
<ttx> Daily triage is particularly important right now... since we are at that tiny window where we can still consider fixing a high-impact issue that comes up
<ttx> so please have it covered, and let me know if you catch something
<smoser> ec2 image candidates will arrive later today.  We're waiting on a fix for 649833
<smoser> bug 649833
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 649833 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "uec images motd suggests tasksel, but tasksel not installed" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/649833
<ttx> The closer we get to release... the less likely we are to introduce a fix
<ttx> At that point I'd say only high bugs are worthy of a fix... though low-impact med/low can make it as well
<ttx> I advise that everyone goes through peer review before submitting to the release team
<ttx> As a reminder, I'm at a conference Thursday and Friday
<ttx> and traveling for a few hours on Wednesday
<ttx> Daviey and mathiaz will cover for release stuff
<Daviey> ack
<ttx> and smoser will cover for cloud images release stuff
<smoser> moving on ?
<ttx> i'll be in London for the release sprint next week, from Wed to sunday.
<ttx> (if need be)
<ttx> the goal is to have the server ISO ready to ship by Friday, so that nobody has to stay up for the weekend
<ttx> EOF
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hggdh> hi
<ttx> questions > #ubuntu-server, I guess
<hggdh> The only news is euca testing keeps on
<hggdh> oh
<hggdh> one thing: we (QA) just sent an email to -dev proposing a change on the usage of the 'regression-*' tags
<hggdh> comments are appreciated
<Daviey> hggdh, I possibly won't need you to test lucid -> maverick before approaching the release team.  I've done 2 upgrades here.. so i feel comfortable with pushing it for release.  Once it's in the archive (hopefully), normal testing then is appreciated :)
<smoser> woohoo Daviey !
<hggdh> Daviey: roj. Since I am already on Lucid, I will wait for it to hit the archives, and will do an upgrade, just in case
<ttx> Daviey: be happy until next test !
<Daviey> lol
<smoser> moving on.
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<smoser> jjohansen, ^
<smoser>  * bug 613083 is fixed in my testing (both in maverick and in lucid tests for the 20100923 refresh of 10.04)
<ubottu> Bug 613083 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/613083 is private
<smoser> (that bug was regarding user data being corrupted)
<ttx> is it released, or will be released as a 0-day SRU ?
<smoser> its fixed (on amazons side)
<smoser> no changes required, it works fine now.
<smoser> Other kernel bugs of interest:
<smoser>  * bug 613273 has been popping up in maverick instances occasionally.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613273 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel panic on ec2 in system_call_fastpath" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613273
<smoser>  * bug 634487 is still present, we're getting some help from amazon on that, but have not made any real progress, jjohansen should be looking at it some also.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 634487 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "t1.micro instance hangs when installing sun java" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/634487
<smoser> jjohansen, apparently is not here, so i will stop talking to myself.
<smoser> Those are the maverick bugs related to uec images.
<jjohansen> I'm here the lag is just bad
<smoser> :)
<jjohansen> I have multiple conversations running atm
<smoser> in SRU news, our metabug friend bug 574910 is expected to move into -proposed this week.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574910 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "High load averages on Lucid while idling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574910
<ttx> smoser: maybe mark the bug fixed if there is nothing else to do
<smoser> i was just doing that, ttx.
 * SpamapS always imagines a GIANT beetle stomping on the city when he hears the term "metabug"
<ttx> SpamapS: that's about a right description
<smoser> jjohansen, can you confirm that out side of kitten killers we're basically frozen for kernel release.
<jjohansen> yes
<jjohansen> there will be a 0 day kernel update that we are queuing fixes for
<smoser> the bugs above will have to be addressed in -updates.  The good part of it is, that they *can* be addressed in updates, and with an 'apt-get dist-upgrade'.
<smoser> woowhoo for pv-grub.
<jiboumans> woohoo indeed
<jiboumans> smoser++ jjohansen++
<smoser> i'm done here. jjohansen anything else?
<kim0> so ec2 users can now upgrade their kernels ? :)
<smoser> kim0, yes.
<kim0> yaay
<Daviey> \o/
<jjohansen> if they use ebs
<Daviey> awesome
<ttx> kim0: that's one of the biggest features in maverick :)
<smoser> they could in lucid with ebs.
<kim0> indeed
<smoser> on maverick, instance store and ebs just require reboot
<smoser> something to chase at some point is to see if we can't get ksplice to support -virtual kernel
<smoser> which would then get us security patches without even reboot on ec2 or uec
<smoser> anyway.
<zul> thats a big if
 * SpamapS grabs the reigns on smoser's pony..  WHOA THERE
<smoser> (one really nice affect of us using -virtual on ec2 is that the above is more likely)
<smoser> anyway
<smoser> narwhals, narwhals
<smoser> moving on
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<smoser> sommer, ^
<sommer> nothing new from me
<sommer> was there questions from anyone?
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<kim0> hey folks
<kim0> This week we're collecting feedback this week from "newcomer" Ubuntu server community
<kim0> The goal being to understand if we're doing a good job accepting new community members, availing helpful data, things to work on, and guidance along the path
<kim0> I actually received pings from a dozen people who want to contribute, which is awesome, I hope to follow up with them after we're done with this survey thing this week
<kim0> Also, another thing, I would like to start collecting feedback on the next version of the cloud portal. If anyone has ideas on what should go there during 11.04 cycle please throw me a few lines
<kim0> that should generally be it for me
<mathiaz> kim0: where is the cloud portal now?
<kim0> mathiaz: at IS for deploy
<kim0> stuck mostly
<kim0> :)
<smoser> it will grace us with its presence at cloud.ubuntu.com ?
<kim0> I hope to have it up around 10.10
<kim0> smoser: that's the plan
 * mathiaz thinks it may hard to provide feedback on something that isn't accessible yet
<smoser> mathiaz, you need to think outside the box man
<kim0> :)
<kim0> sorry for that .. should be up soon though
<smoser> kim0, table showing latest AMIs
<kim0> smoser: yes there now
<smoser> awesome.
<Daviey> \o/
<smoser> ok. if no one has anything else for kim0 then we're going on.
<smoser> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<zul> i like turtles
<SpamapS> me too
<smoser>  * narwhals, narwhals
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<SpamapS> Did anybody have a chance to look at the solution I proposed for the SSL passphrase dialog in plymouth?
<Daviey> i thought ttx did?
<smoser> SpamapS, link ?
<zul> ttx did
<SpamapS> bug 582963
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 582963 in apache2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "SSL pass phrase dialog can't read input" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582963
<zul> and defered it to natty
<ttx> SpamapS: I looked at it from an impact perspective -- didn't test it
<SpamapS> yeah, Just wondering if anybody cared to comment. ;)
<ttx> SpamapS: I commented :P
<SpamapS> ttx: oh you always have SOMETHING to say don't you? ;)
<ttx> SpamapS: yes
<kim0> mathiaz: smoser append "217.139.24.3 kimos.com" to /etc/hosts and visit kimos.com my dev box,
<RoAkSoAx> i have a tropical depression coming tomorrow (hopefully it wont turn into a hurricane) :(
<ttx> don't tell me next UDS is in Florida
<smoser> Walt will protect us.
<Daviey> That is a mickey mouse idea smoser
<ttx> smoser: not sure, he never put a narwhal in his movies
<SpamapS> ttx: its ok, Hurricane season is over 1 week before UDS
<ttx> maybe he just hates them.
<smoser> ok.
<ttx> anyway, Florida looks less dangerous than Texas
<smoser> i'm calling it
<RoAkSoAx> i'm in a worse danger area than orlando though lol, so Orlando should be good for UDS, dont get scared ttx :P
<Daviey> smoser, next meeting?
<smoser> oops
<jiboumans> smoser: when done, #endmeeting
<Daviey> rinse and repeat
<SpamapS> announce next time
<SpamapS> then end
<SpamapS> then \o/
<smoser> next meeting:
<smoser> Tuesday 2010-10-05 at 1800 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<smoser> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:51.
<ttx> smoser: many thanks for covering up
<Daviey> yeah... usually not wearing clothes is not cool.
<JFo> twitch*
<smoser> if its ok for mickey its ok for me
<hggdh> oh, TMI, TMI...
<RoAkSoAx> mickey is evil
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<smoser> now. everyone go to : http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/Narwhals/
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-29
<robbiew> o/
<robbiew> psurbhi: missed you in mumble
<psurbhi> oh!
<mvo> hello
<cjwatson> yo
 * mvo needs some seconds to finish his lighting summary thing for the week, gtimelog for the rescue
<cjwatson> I normally use my =ubuntu/uploads folder :-)
<barry> :)
<robbiew> hmm...no doko
<robbiew> anyway...let's get this bad boy up and running
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<mvo> I /msged him
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> and scare myself with the way I've apparently made rather more than 6000 uploads to Ubuntu ever ...
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<doko_> nobody missed me in mumble ...
<Keybuk> doko: who are you?
<robbiew> okay....who's first.....psurbhi?
<doko> Keybuk: doesn't help to deny me, I'll win settlers anyway ;)
<psurbhi> 1) Last week, working on fixing bugs in autoassembly. found out that initramfs needs to set the hostname for the root array autoassembly to work. Working on a few more bugs that i can see while testing auto assembly of arrays.
<psurbhi> 2) also worked on bug 503790 (pending kernel patch rewrite)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 503790 in linux (Ubuntu) "Copy to USB thumbdrive doesn't work" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503790
<psurbhi> done..
<robbiew> thnx
<robbiew> doko?
<doko> * componenent-mismatches and NBS cleanup, ongoing
<doko> * some ARM fixes (mostly needed for archive cleanup)
<doko> * OOo update
<doko> * llvm updates
<doko> done
<doko> and still filing rc bug reports for build failures ...
<robbiew> Keybuk?
<Keybuk> - upstart: method of queuing start/stop requests for a job didn't work out, gone back to the drawing board on that one
<Keybuk> - negation didn't work out either as a result "while not apache"
<Keybuk> - some UDS planning calls
<Keybuk> - my canonical.com e-mail doesn't work, nobody is noticing because I rarely reply to it anyway apparently
<Keybuk> --
<doko> Keybuk: please could you have a look at http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~lucas/ubuntu-nbs/32/upstart_0.6.6-3_lubuntu32.buildlog
<Keybuk> the test failed
<Keybuk> (null): Failed to spawn test main process: unable to set priority: Permission denied
<Keybuk> clearly the build environment is not a Linux machine
<cjwatson> could be a fakeroot bug?  setpriority requires CAP_SYS_NICE
<Keybuk> that's actually just nice()
<cjwatson> well, nice does too
<Keybuk> but yes, could be a bug in a wrapper, or a bug in a vm, etc.
<Keybuk> this works under fakeroot on the buildds though
<robbiew> okay...moving on :)
<robbiew> cjwatson?
<cjwatson> done: consolekit VT activation fixes, awaiting test feedback; uploaded Windows interop fix for grub2; finished /lib/init/rw symlink migration; helping doko with archive catchup; finally managed to reproduce and fix bug 569900 (not quite as evil conditions as the "will not print on Tuesday" bug, but getting there)
<Keybuk> (a quick check shows me this package built ok on LP - so whatever ubuntu-nbs is using mustn't be compatible)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 569900 in partman-base (Ubuntu Maverick) "partman sometimes creates partitions such that there is ambiguity between whether the superblock is on the disk device or the partition device" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/569900
<cjwatson> todo: dmraid testing to make sure it hasn't all gone horribly wrong; hassle people with problems to test consolekit fix; more out-of-date/NBS work; release! (nearly)
<cjwatson> (anything I've forgotten?)
<cjwatson> --
<robbiew> thnx
<robbiew> barry?
<barry> python issues 9916 (errno) and 9807 (build flags in config paths), triaged bug 646701 (pysqlite); udd stakeholders meeting, uds planning, bug 609186; debugged and filed bug 649927, helped with some launchpad mailing list issues; (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 646701 in python-sqlite (Ubuntu) "package python-sqlite (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: cannot access archive: No such file or directory" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/646701
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 609186 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "Really easy branching of Ubuntu packages" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609186
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 649927 in Launchpad itself "merge proposal emails Bcc'd to forged To address" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/649927
<doko> barry: we really should demote sqlite after maverick ...
<barry> oh and lots of insanity with fglrx :(
<barry> doko: why?
<doko> barry: we try to minimize the versions in main (and we have sqlite3 for ages)
<barry> doko: oh, i see.  not demote sqlite3 :)  yeah, +1
<robbiew> moving on...
<robbiew> mvo?
<mvo> app-install/command-not-found updates;natty planning calls;some sponsoring;python-apt;install and upgrade testin;lots of software-center work, fixes in buy-something, scalability fixes (proper etag use), add ricks-wallpapers to the purchase; (done)
<robbiew> and ev is awol
<Keybuk> told you, Mark fired him
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/Good News
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/Good News
<robbiew> heh
<Keybuk> sorry, that should have waited for the Good News
<robbiew> figure with 10.10 so close...we can keep this short ;)
<barry> badump dump
<robbiew> I sent out the request for 11.04 ideas
<robbiew> I'll be going through deferred blueprints as well
<robbiew> retargeting
<barry> robbiew: you got my response?
<robbiew> if I miss one you want...let me know
<robbiew> barry: yep, thnx
<barry> thx
<robbiew> Good News: James Hunt has signed his contract...he's ours now....uuahahahahahahahhaaaaa!
<barry> rock!  so he'll be @ uds?
<robbiew> yep
 * doko throws glibc at him
<cjwatson> first day of UDS will be his first day
<cjwatson> aiui
<robbiew> he may stop by the office during the release sprint...not sure yet
<cjwatson> AOB: archive admins (and for that matter others), could use help with NBS, out-of-date builds, FTBFS, and that kind of archive consistency stuff
<Keybuk> cjwatson: does James have any nickname he's particularly fond of using?
<cjwatson> I have no idea.  That sounds like a loaded question :)
<Keybuk> "piggy"
<robbiew> heh
<cjwatson> oh don't even go there :)
<mvo> haha
<barry> cjwatson: what's the best way to pick off things to work on?
<cjwatson> coordinate on #ubuntu-release.  doko and I have both been working through http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/
<doko> barry: I'm filing bug reports for the ftbfs, targeted to maverick, severity high
<barry> cjwatson, doko +1
<cjwatson> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ too
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ too
<cjwatson> which actually has a really useful layout now, useful mouseover text and the like
<cjwatson> it's mostly universe at this point, but needs a push
<barry> cool. i'll look at some of those
<cjwatson> doko: best milestone them for ubuntu-10.10 as well (if you aren't already)
<doko> already done
 * cjwatson nods
<cjwatson> so I'm using https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs?field.milestone=27462
<doko> and http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi   but the ones in main are already triaged
<cjwatson> oh, does anyone actually have a machine that suffers from bug 641259?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 641259 in grub2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "grub does not appear to load after maverick post-beta install" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641259
<cjwatson> debugging it with remote hands who don't really know their way around the boot loader is likely to be really really difficult
<cjwatson> it could use a local developer
<barry> cjwatson: i looked at that one, and i don't
<mvo> cjwatson: if you could later have a quick look at bug #650525, it appears its a livefs build issues, i.e. the key is not on the livefs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 650525 in ubuntu-extras-keyring (Ubuntu) "Failed to fetch http://extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/Release ; missing key" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/650525
<cjwatson> mkay
<mvo> cjwatson: a idea would be welcome, maybe its simply a ordering issue
<robbiew> ok...guess that's it
<cjwatson> very odd indeed, no obvious sign of the problem from the build log
<cjwatson> but I can reproduce it tooo
<cjwatson> but yeah, no more business here
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:31.
<robbiew> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLFYx6xlhB0
<mvo> thanks
<robbiew> ;)...thnx all
<barry> robbiew: that is a classic
<robbiew> indeed
<mvo> haha, saw it for the first time
<psurbhi> heh
<psurbhi> cool one!
 * stgraber looks around for Edubuntuers
 * dinda is here
<stgraber> ping mgariepy, highvoltage, mhall119, ...
<mhall119> o/
<mgariepy> o/
<stgraber> I believe highvoltage is finishing an e-mail containing most of what we want to discuss/implement for Natty and that we'd like to discuss today
<highvoltage> hi!
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'm still busy with that e-mail, it's going to be a long one, I hope not too long :)
<mhall119> there he is
<mhall119> man of the hour
<highvoltage> heh :)
<mhall119> well, man of the 55 minutes remaining anyway
<highvoltage> I don't know if you saw, but we got featured on OMG!Ubuntu! - http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/edubuntu-10-10-boasts-many-surprises/
<highvoltage> meeting agenda is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda - which still says 15 September 2010, which just shows you how busy we have been :)
<mhall119> I didn't, but yay
 * highvoltage updates
<highvoltage> dinda: any updates on your education assignment? I've been wondering how that's going
<dinda> it's going well!
<dinda> in the midst of editing lots of PDF data sheets for the ubuntu website as we speak
<highvoltage> I added a link to the wiki page you started on the edubuntu blog: http://edubuntu.org/2010-09-26/growing-list-schools-using-ubuntu
<mhall119> dinda: Michelle brought an OLPC to our school's steering committee meeting, got everyone's interest
<highvoltage> dinda: if you want access to the site to write your own blog entries, please let me know
<dinda> aimed at various target audiences:  students, school decision makers, etc
<highvoltage> it kind of feels silly that all the entries on that blog so far is written by me, we need to fix that :)
<dinda> highvoltage: that would be great!
<mhall119> dinda: does it have anything for school IT managers/admins?
<dinda> mhall119: yeah, I'm playing with my Dell mini 9 right now, trying to get it updated and then going to add edubuntu
<dinda> mhall119: yes, i'm trying to figure out how they make their decisions, what info they need to know about ubuntu
<dinda> I'm finding that most are familiar with open source, though not many with Ubuntu
<highvoltage> about the e-mail stgraber was talking about earlier, there's a thread on the ubuntu-devel mailing list about tracks at UDS and sessions that will be planned
<mhall119> dinda: there's probably a perception that it's for hobbyists too
<highvoltage> I'm starting a new thread there about Edubuntu, why it exists, our plans and what we'd need to discuss at UDS
<highvoltage> currently, we have enough ideas and plans to fill up at least 3-4 releases
<dinda> highvoltage: that's something I was asked last week. . . why edubuntu?
<dinda> does it really require it's own derivative?
<dinda> or is the add-on the way to go?
<highvoltage> so it kind of boils down to what the best order is to implement them, what the most important features are, what can actually be implemented in 6 months, and what we should start working on now for natty+1 already
<highvoltage> dinda: those are all great and valid questions, and I attempt to answer exactly that in that email
<dinda> highvoltage: great, b/c I've got about a week to try to make the argument for continued funding for education
<highvoltage> dinda: well, as you know, edubuntu maintains (or at least tries to) get the latest and greatest educational stuff into ubuntu, and then maintain it there
<mhall119> dinda: I'd point out that edubuntu > edubuntu.iso
<mhall119> the team also maintains most of the education packages that go into the repos
<highvoltage> so the question is, why put it on another iso if you can just install and configure everything in ubuntu, because that is after all where all our work happens
<highvoltage> dinda: in 2003, I got involved with a volunteer organisation that implemented linux labs in schools
<highvoltage> dinda: at the time, we installed K12-LTSP, which was basically Red Hat 9 + LTSP 4.1 preconfigured. it was great because we could show a teacher who had very little technical knowledge how to get a whole computer lab of 20 to 30 computers working in less than an hour
<mhall119> dinda: same reason why Kubuntu, Xubuntu, MythBuntu and Ubuntu Studio all have their own ISOs, it reduces the difficulty of getting to where you already know you want to get
<dinda> I think the iso makes it much easier to implement
<highvoltage> it also boosted the confidence of the teacher(s) who maintained the lab, because he/she knew that even if the biggest thing could go wrong, they knew how to re-install (and later on, restore from backups :) )
<mhall119> same reason Ubuntu exists, really, when Debian had all the packages
<highvoltage> dinda: so that turn-key factor becomes very, very important in primary and high schools. even for home computer to a large degree
<highvoltage> dinda: exactly!
<dinda> right now I'm planning a training for some local teachers and I have a stack of Ubuntu CDs but really need to show them the educational-desktop. . .
<dinda> so I'm thinking of instead creating a stack of edubuntu live CDs or perhaps using USB drives
<highvoltage> universities we care a bout a little, but not so much since universities typically has lots of money and enough IT resources on-site to implement Ubuntu and install everything else manually
<highvoltage> dinda: that is indeed another reason to have the Edubuntu DVD. It's also why people requested LTSP live so much a few releases back
<highvoltage> back to plans for natty (while still staying on this subject)
<highvoltage> the edubuntu dvd is currently quite flawed in how we actually install packages and the stuff we ship with
<highvoltage> basically, besides unity and ltsp, we just install *everything*
<mhall119> all the ubuntu-edu-* packages you mean?
<highvoltage> this makes the install a bit bigger and slower than it needs to be, but also pushes up our system requirements, especially for home users
<highvoltage> mhall119: and a bit more...
<stgraber> mhall119: not only
<highvoltage> for example, nanny and italc gets installed by default
<stgraber> mhall119: atomix, edubuntu-artwork, edubuntu-docs, edubuntu-menueditor, gimp, gnome-icon-theme-gartoon, gobby, italc-client, khelpcenter4, kolourpaint4, liferea, nanny, pessulus, sabayon, scribus, ubuntu-edu-preschool, ubuntu-edu-primary, ubuntu-edu-secondary, ubuntu-edu-tertiary, xaos
<mhall119> but still edubuntu-related stuff
<highvoltage> they run more services that pushes our system requirements up quite a bit. installing edubuntu from the live session currently requires about 1GB of RAM :(
<dinda> and I noticed some overlap in the primary/secondary sets but i assume an app only gets installed once
<mhall119> I know there is a lot of Edubuntu tied up with Gnome, but is there any thought to moving towards a lighter desktop like Xfce or LXDE?
<highvoltage> one way we could improve this is by doing some more work in the installer, so that users could better choose exactly what they want. Perhaps we should split it into profiles, so that users could choose between "Home Computer", "Primary School", "Secondary School", "Library", "NGO", etc and that would install the appropriate packages
<mhall119> dinda: yes, only once
<highvoltage> (I'm not sure about that, but that's something to discuss at a UDS)
<highvoltage> or perhaps they should simply be presented with a list of options and then tick of what they want
<dinda> definitely a UDS topic
<mhall119> highvoltage: the ubiquity functionality to choose to install restricted extras might serve that purpose
<highvoltage> stgraber's installer work for maverick can definitely help with implementing that from a technical perspective: https://stgraber.org/2010/09/10/edubuntu-gets-new-installer
<dinda> all the sys admins I'm talking to are asking for more control over what gets installed
<persia> highvoltage, Graphical tasksel interface for ubiquity sort-of-thing?
<dinda> and what gets hidden or not installed as well
<highvoltage> persia: exactly, that is exactly what stgraber and I were saying IRL probably while you typed that :)
<dinda> how is the testing on Maverick going?
<persia> heh
<highvoltage> persia: edubuntu actually had tasks before in d-i, but we lost that moving to Ubiquity
 * persia remembers but thinks ubiquity is prettier :)
<highvoltage> dinda: Edubuntu 10.10 is great so far, it was pretty much the first system to past the tests on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<highvoltage> dinda: so testing has been good
<dinda> excellent
<dinda> good work team!
<stgraber> we just need to write the release anouncement+notes for RC and we'll be good to go (unless there's a general respin)
<highvoltage> eudbuntu amd64 UPGRADE still needs to be tested, I believe it's on stgraber's todo list ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah, there's a file we need changed on the DVD (outside of squashfs) so that the release notes button in ubituity points to our release notes url
<stgraber> persia: yep, having a ubiquity step that'd let you choose which tasks you want from a given list (I don't want the same ugly list we have in d-i) is probably what I'd like to implement/see implemented
 * highvoltage makes note of that again
<highvoltage> dinda: I hope that my explenation at least partially answered 'why edubuntu?'
 * persia would be interested in such a UDS session as a general component addition for use in other flavours as well
<dinda> highvoltage: it does, I mean it makes sense to me but the concern is that it was somehow taking resources (contributors) from Ubuntu
<highvoltage> dinda: if we can get the flexibility + usability right, it could be a great system for *any* educational environment
<highvoltage> dinda: heh, who had *that* concern?
<persia> Considering that Edubuntu is part of the Ubuntu project, it's a bit of an odd concern
<mhall119> yeah
<highvoltage> dinda: if anything, edubuntu ads to and enriches the ubuntu ecosystem
<dinda> but the argument that the edubuntu team maintains all those packages is a good one
<persia> If Edubuntu was a derivative, I can see it, but it's a fully-qualified flavour.
<mhall119> it's a bit like saying your arm is drawing resources from your body
<highvoltage> yeah, not only that, but we also work with some upstreams to make collaboration with ubuntu better. if it wasn't for edubuntu, other people, like MOTUs and core-devs would have more work
<dinda> highvoltage: good point
<mhall119> also there'd be no Qimo packages in Universe
<mhall119> because I know that'll make all the difference in the world....
<persia> Um, many Edubuntu uploaders *are* MOTUs and core-devs.  these are not exclusive sets.
<dinda> mhall119: :)
<highvoltage> one of the other long-term things we should think about is server apps. we've been doing that, but we probably need a better long term plan. (things such as moodle, schooltool, etc)
<dinda> highvoltage: yes, that's a project I'm trying to get some backing for
<highvoltage> I think an edubuntu-server (for lack of better name) metapackage would be a nice add-on for ubuntu-server
<mhall119> dinda: think of Edubuntu like the artwork team, nobody is concerned that they are taking resources away from ubuntu development
<highvoltage> it probably doesn't need to be a der^H^H^H flavour of it's own
<dinda> if we can get a solid school server bundle, it would interest some OEMs
<mhall119> it would be nice if there was a turn-key server solution from Ubuntu that provided OpenLDAP+Samba+Email+whatever all integrated together
<mhall119> then edubuntu-server could build off that
<highvoltage> dinda: I can imagine, selling a server with a bunch of computers can boost their income quite a bit :)
<persia> highvoltage, You might consider following the practice of Kubuntu: one flavour, many faces (sometimes on a single image, sometimes on other images)
<dinda> mhall119: I think even more importantly the Edubuntu team has taken over the upkeep of all this software. . .
<mhall119> from what I've seen, the LTSP stuff has been mostly edubuntu driven
<persia> dinda, I think most of it has always been maintained by the Edubuntu team (since there was one)
<highvoltage> persia: indeed. we want to avoid having as many images as Kubuntu though, for the simple reason that it becomes a lot to test. Testing already takes up a lot of our time :)
<dinda> the other big confusion I hear from alot of folks is that "Edubuntu is just for primary grades"  young kids
<persia> highvoltage, heh.  Of course :)
<highvoltage> mhall119: technicall ltsp falls under the server team. so the work that stgraber and als myself have done there would probably fall under server team work. we just happen to be edubuntu contributors as well :)
<highvoltage> (and happen to know that ltsp works great in education :) )
<persia> LTSP has moved around a bit: didn't used to be in -server
<mhall119> highvoltage: if not for being edubuntu contributors, would you be working on LTSP for the server team?
<dinda> yip, I suspect this UDS we'll see even more LTSP discussion in the server track
<highvoltage> dinda: that's pretty much the same as people saying "ubuntu is just great for desktops". just because ubuntu is a great desktop system, they assume that it's all that it's good for. (which is of course not true)
<mhall119> there was talk about doing an LTSP demo wasn't there?
<dinda> ltsp or general thin client solutions are being requested more and more
<dinda> highvoltage: I think some of it is just marketing. . .
<highvoltage> dinda: we happen to have great primary school packages, better than for older ages, for sure. maybe makign it optional and not have it installed by default could help shape that perception
<highvoltage> dinda: I think it's natural of people to assume that "it's just for small kids" when there's lots of stuff for small kids installed
<mhall119> I'd rather change perceptions through information, rather than removing the functionality that it's already known for
 * highvoltage realises that he's been blabbering for >30mins!
<highvoltage> at least we don't have that much left to do for maverick, so we can be more chatty :)
<highvoltage> our remaining to do list, the way I see it, is as follows:
<stgraber> persia: technically it's on -alternate because it's the only image where we have the .debs for all of the desktop. It just wasn't possible to include it on -server
<highvoltage> * stgraber to test amd64 lucid -> maverick upgrade
<highvoltage> * edubuntu release notes and release announcement
<highvoltage> * fix link on cd to release notes page
<highvoltage> * finish installation guide
<persia> stgraber, Ah, that makes more sense.  I didn't remember seeing it in the -server set.
<highvoltage> not sure if I talked about the installation guide before here, I started working on an installation guide, you can preview it here so long: http://edubuntu.org/documentation/10.10/installation-guide
<highvoltage> is there something I left out on our todo list?
<highvoltage> (well, for maverick at leasT)
<stgraber> seems like about it
<stgraber> we still need to write blueprints for natty but that can still happen post-release
<highvoltage> dinda: I think it's great when we get to ask and answer the 'why edubuntu' kind of questions, I'd like to get that up on the website as well
<mhall119> highvoltage: as 2 answers: Why Edubuntu images and why Edubuntu project
<dinda> installation guide looks nice
<highvoltage> mhall119: *nod*
<mhall119> or, what Edubuntu gives to schools, and what Edubuntu gives to Ubuntu
<mhall119> to be a bit more clear
<dinda> mhall119: was just thinking of that last bit
<highvoltage> that's also a nice way to look at it
 * highvoltage wonders if it's a good idea to start talking about potential natty features with 8 minutes left in the meeting
<mhall119> is there anyone scheduled for the next hour?
<highvoltage> mhall119: QA team in a bit more than an hour
<highvoltage> (if google calender is to be believed)
<mhall119> then we've got time
<stgraber> nope, QA is currently and in #ubuntu-qa ;)
<stgraber> so no conflict there
<persia> In #ubuntu-quality !
<highvoltage> ok, here's some ideas that I'm just going to dump, it's probably not a complete list even, but I've collated some of my and stgraber's ideas so that we can post it to the ubuntu-devel list and have some sessions organised
<persia> #ubuntu-qa belongs to the Qatar LoCo team (when they come to exist)
<stgraber> persia: oh right, we renamed it to #ubuntu-quality ;)
<stgraber> persia: it's the ML that's still wrong
<mhall119> highvoltage: is there a wiki for this list yet? or are we going straight to blueprints?
<highvoltage> and yet the mailing list is ubuntu-qa! I ended up sending a mail to ubuntu-qa when I meant to send a mail to ubuntu-cq (which is actually ubuntu-quebec!)
<persia> stgraber, Right.
<highvoltage> mhall119: it's a tomboy note on my computer, it will be an email and wiki page some time after this meeting :)
<mhall119> with one.u.c would let you share notes
<highvoltage> I'll start with meta and packages since it's kind of the easy part
<mhall119> s/with/wish/
<highvoltage> so meta...
<highvoltage> * include pencil (cool tool for drawing animations, comics, etc), in archives now, wasn't before
<highvoltage> * include geogebra, new in archives since maverick but we picked up on it a bit late
<highvoltage> * include new italc
<highvoltage> * possibly include pdfmod, jcastro blogged about it and it seems like it might be useful: http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/1162196984/pdfmod
<highvoltage> (not sure if it should really be installed by default)
<mhall119> pdfmod is cool, not sure what's edu- about it though
<highvoltage> * include openspell [needs-packaging]
<highvoltage> mhall119: I guess if you're writing dissertation/thesis or perhaps other documentation, or you're a teacher who has to prepare a lesson from multiple sources, then working with pds'f  might become somewhat more important. I'm not sure, it's open for discussion :)
<mhall119> can I add to the meta list?
<highvoltage> * calibre - which is ebook management software, perhaps useful to catalog things like the gutenberg project? also needs some more investigation, at least it's packaged
<highvoltage> mhall119: be my guest, I'll add it to the note and if you have more later you can add it to the wiki apge we still need to make
<highvoltage> mhall119: and since you'll be at uds you could also bring it up there :)
<mhall119> * include Laby, a programming tutorial similar in spirit to kturtle, can use C, Java or Python
<mhall119> I think we should check up on OpenOffice4Kids, see how mature it has become, and what the plans are with the LibreOffice fork
<dinda> highvoltage: I thought calibre is now included in maverick?
<highvoltage> I've been playing freeciv a few weeks back and also realised how much can be learned about the concept of civilizations, technology, diplomacy, infrastructure and dependencies while playing that game
<highvoltage> I think it could be a really cool addition in edubuntu, not sure if everyone will agree with that
<highvoltage> dinda: maybe it is, I started working on this list a few months back, anything is possible
<mhall119> I've been playing with Andika font for inclusion in Qimo, it's specifically designed to aid people learning to read, as well as people with reading disabilities
<dinda> I thought I saw calibre on the featured apps list??
<ajmitch> highvoltage: freeciv could also be dangerously addictive :)
<highvoltage> dinda: maybe you did, but featured apps != installed by default
<mhall119> I'd also like a general discussion of accessibility in Edubuntu
<mhall119> (and Qimo)
<highvoltage> mhall119: do you think that edubuntu should focus on accessibility that would fall outside of the scope of the Ubuntu accessibility team?
<highvoltage> ajmitch: omg it is! and I want civ 5 too (I even kept a windows installation on my laptop *just* for that)
<mhall119> I think it should focus on accessibility, whether or not it does so outside the accessibility team I don't know
<highvoltage> mhall119: ok
<mhall119> I know of at least one special-needs school in Florida that's using Ubuntu
<highvoltage> * melting - can be used to compute the melting temperature of nucleic acid duplex (already packaged)
<highvoltage> * linthesia - midi sequencer, can probably be used to learn some basic piano skills in bulk
<mhall119> * Stellarium,  planetarium app
<mhall119> * Celestian, a space simulation app
<highvoltage> * gimpbox - puts the whole gimp in one window, has some bugs, I tried it out today but it's nice and also easy to package
<mhall119> highvoltage: I thought the new gimp versions had that built iin
<highvoltage> mhall119: they are nice, I was cautios before of including stuff that requires 3D graphics, but I think that's becomming a lot easier these days
<highvoltage> mhall119: nope
<highvoltage> mhall119: it is planned in upstream though
<mhall119> "The latest development release of The Gimp image editor comes with a handy option single-window mode"
<mhall119> from omgubuntu.co.uk anyway
<highvoltage> * move from scribus to scribus-ng (already packaged)
<highvoltage> mhall119: well, if *ubuntu* is going to include the latest *development* version of gimp in natty, then we'll be fine!
<mhall119> ok
<highvoltage> anyway, it's an arb thing on a list at this point :)
<highvoltage> * Fix depends for qcad-doc on qt3-assistant
<highvoltage> * andika font
<highvoltage> oops, I just added that
<mhall119> lol
<highvoltage> mhall119: what is the andika font, btw?
<mhall119> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=andika
<mhall119> it's designed for beginning readers and dyslexics
<persia> highvoltage, For MIDI, I'd strongly recommend coordinating with the Studio team: there was some confusion in the past when Edubuntu ended up caring for some music software no longer of interest to Studio, and it ended up falling into a dead area where nobody maintained it well.
<highvoltage> persia: noted
<highvoltage> so that's for meta-package changes and new packages, well at least potential ones
<highvoltage> I'll post to the edubuntu-devel list about that too and let people know that it's their homework assignment to add more and provide feedback so long
<dinda> highvoltage: are you trying to fill up an entire DVD?  ;)
<highvoltage> dinda: heh, luckily they're quite small
<mhall119> dinda: may as well, otherwise we're just wasting space
<highvoltage> also, we're installing way too many kde packages currently, there's so much KDE on an edubuntu session, that you can actually log in to a kde session!
<dinda> highvoltage: what about documentation?  are there any missing areas?
<highvoltage> we need to fix that for natty, we'll probably save around 150MB from that
<highvoltage> the new stuff that I've listed so far would probably take less than that
<mhall119> dinda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuide was 95% auto-generated, so I can re-build it easily for natty
<highvoltage> dinda: yes! I added it to this wiki page so long: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/WorkForGrabs
<dinda> nice - on both accounts
<highvoltage> dinda: the plan is to expand that page into a big list of all our work so that new contributors will be able to pop in and do a bit they are interested in easily
<mhall119> highvoltage: I can tune my script to generate other formats too if we want, HTML or docbook
<highvoltage> dinda: historically, we've had the problem that people pop in and say "hey! I want to help!" and then we're not really prepared for them
<dinda> highvoltage: you're not the only team with that issue :)
<mhall119> even PDF, as much as I'm hating it right now
<highvoltage> mhall119: nice. we should actually link to that from the screenshots page on the website (perhaps we already do, my memory isn't that great)
<highvoltage> dinda: "you're"!? :p
<dinda> highvoltage: sorry, I mean "WE're"
<highvoltage> oh right, I was on installer issues... (I think)
<mhall119> highvoltage: it is linked already
<highvoltage> dinda: that's better :)
<highvoltage> currently, edubuntu's installation takes around 20 minutes longer than it should
<highvoltage> this is because we install a *lot* of language packs (actuall, all of them) and then afterwards we remove all of them again except for the one that the user chose
<highvoltage> same for localised fonts
<highvoltage> ubiquity currently has some limitations that we need to poke the installer team with at UDS. it would be really nice to have that fixed
<highvoltage> currenty our ltsp options is also rather limited, which isn't at all so bad, but it would be nice to have an advanced options button or something similar I guess
<highvoltage> then there's also the options and stuff like tasks in ubiquity we discusssed earlier. there's a lot of work there, but it's a place where we can really make edubuntu shinie
<highvoltage> *shine
<highvoltage> making users actively choose optional extras will also help make them more aware of those features
<highvoltage> so I guess it's safe to assume that we'll also have a session for installer improvements at UDS
<highvoltage> that's it on the list so far for installer
<mhall119> highvoltage: I'm wondering how making package installation optional will work with the live session
<mhall119> since they have to be insalled in the live session to be used
<highvoltage> mhall119: it would probably work like the language packs. if something is de-selected, it will be uninstalled afterwards
<mhall119> ok, have all selected by default, and the user un-selects what they want removed, that'll work
<highvoltage> mhall119: some things don't work on the live session anyway (like italc) so it should really be removed
<mhall119> makes sense
<highvoltage> somet higns arealso not all that useful to begin with on a live cd anyway, like nanny
<mhall119> highvoltage: will we try for desktop profiles in Natty?
<highvoltage> mhall119: yes, that's two items ahead on my list but let's skip to it :)
<mhall119> lol, ok
<highvoltage> if we do ever have different profiles for different kinds of users, it will probably be done with desktop-profiles
<mhall119> which is just custom gconf settings right?
<highvoltage> but I think that will probably be post-natty
<highvoltage> for natty though, it will be useful for implementing a qimo desktop
<mhall119> well, I think implementing a Qimo desktop will cover 80% of what is needed for desktop profiles
<highvoltage> mhall119: I think it does a bit more than that, you can specify certain custom directories for settings, data, etc. which is useful for qimo
<mhall119> since a gnome-based Qimo will basically be just that
<highvoltage> mhall119: without desktop-profiles, isn't there a problem that all of its configuration is seperate?
<mhall119> highvoltage: okay,that's XDG stuff too then, which Qimo already uses
<highvoltage> mhall119: well, this is additional to that, let's go into the details later :)
<mhall119> ok
<highvoltage> but it is on the list and I think doable for natty!
<highvoltage> then I think we should also have a session with canonical
<mhall119> I'll do the qimo work with an eye towards full desktop profile support
<highvoltage> at least have some key people involved to ask some questions. I don't think it's even that important to get answers right away
<highvoltage> but it would be nice to let canonical know that we have some questions and it also gives as a chance to answer some things we can
<highvoltage> I have quite a few myself, for example,
<highvoltage> there's not really edubuntu products available from canonical atm, which results in other 3rd party companies providing support and services
<highvoltage> so would it be ok for us to have an edubuntu market place on the website that lists to these commercial services? and also to providers like zareason and system76 that sells laptops and computers with edubuntu pre-installed
<highvoltage> I'm not sure if that would be a UDS session, per se
<highvoltage> but there should probably be some kind of meeting at some poing
<mhall119> yeah, that sounds more like a direct inquiry to the higher-ups
<highvoltage> dinda: do you perhaps know who the best people would be to have in such a meeting? I'd really like to have sabdfl for that one since he was involved in and organised the original eudbuntu summit
<highvoltage> dinda: it would be nice if you could provide a list of people who should be there, if you can
<mhall119> perhaps someone already involved in Canonical's partner programs too
<dinda> highvoltage: if you give me another until the end of next week, we'll know whether or not Canonical is going to be putting any resources at all in education
<highvoltage> dinda: ok, that probably won't have a huge effect on the answer to that question, but ok :)
<dinda> highvoltage: afaik, there is no opposition to creating the marketplace
<highvoltage> then on the edubuntu server side, we've pretty much covered that today already, there's the server in a box stuff, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/school-server-in-a-box and some packaging work that needs to be done
<highvoltage> dinda: ok
<highvoltage> hmm, under the artwork section on my list it says "Wallpaper - Ubuntu New Stable Apps Artwork discussion" I think that must have been a bad copy and paste or something because I don't know what it means :)
<mhall119> I'm trying to get by brother to come to UDS for a couple of days, I'll see if he has any interest in doing some artwork for Edubuntu
<highvoltage> ah, there was some discussion on the artwork mailing list recently, but it's way too much to expand here atm :)
<highvoltage> (I'll include that in the e-mail, which will probably take me another two hours to write at this point :) )
<highvoltage> we may also be adopting the breathe icon theme
<highvoltage> the author wants to give it up, although another contributor mentioned that they weren't aware that it's teh default in edubuntu
<mhall119> what do you mean "give it up"?
<highvoltage> as in, stop maintaining it
<mhall119> ok
<highvoltage> we actually want to do some stuff with it, make panel icons nicer, update it to make it more modern
<highvoltage> it still has lots of brown and old ubuntu references in it that's obsolete
<mhall119> do we have any kind of style/brand focus for edubuntu?
<mhall119> or has it been mostly ad hoc?
<highvoltage> then there's also the long outstanding issue of our ldm theme. it's ancient (still has old logo and everything) and we actually show the old ubuntu theme in our default ltsp implementation.
<highvoltage> we really need to fix that for natty!
<mhall119> what's involved?
<highvoltage> mhall119: one moment please
<highvoltage> mhall119: for lucid I put together https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Artwork/LucidBranding
<highvoltage> mhall119: for maverick: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Artwork/MaverickBranding
<highvoltage> mhall119: I want to do that a bit more in advance for natty, and we need more of a community around it
<mhall119> I'll see who I can volunteer
<highvoltage> mhall119: I also want to involve ubuntu-artwork more (see the discusson on that list for more details, it's too involved to summarize here atm)
<highvoltage> mhall119: :)
<mhall119> highvoltage: will canonical give us resources from the artwork team?
<mhall119> or will we have to talk them into doing it on their free time?
<highvoltage> mhall119: depends what you mean by "canonical", "give us", and "artwork"
<mhall119> lol
<mhall119> will Canonical pay someone to make artwork for Edubuntu
<mhall119> or design a palette for Edubuntu
<highvoltage> mhall119: I'm sure if we can get really nice artwork that we have to pay for, Canonical would probably pay, it won't hurt to ask
<dinda> the Design Team is waaaay backed up on all projects
<dinda> I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for assistance from them
<highvoltage> mhall119: I'm not really interested in asking them to specifically find someone and then paying them to design something from scratch
<mhall119> I was just wondering if we were going to have to look outside of Canonical for designs and artwork
<mhall119> sounds like we are
<highvoltage> not that I want to set our goals *too* high, but I think we can do a lot better without having to bring in the design team to come up with masterpieces like http://humphreybc.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/wallpaper.jpg
<stgraber> we usually look at what happen in Ubuntu and take some stuff from there
<mhall119> I gotta have more orange!
<highvoltage> mhall119: that's why we include gimp by default ;)
<dinda> I also know of some graphic artists I can start asking to contribute
<highvoltage> mhall119: I think for natty, a good, reasonably unique GTK theme and a new wallpaper would be a very good start
<highvoltage> dinda: great
<dinda> if the specs are already laid out, they can give it a shot
<mhall119> highvoltage: well I'm gonna have to learn gtkrc, because we're planning on making 2 custom themes for Qimo, so I can probably help with that
<highvoltage> eek, 8 minutes left to the next hour and I still haven't covered the existing list!
<mhall119> mine will probably be clearlooks based
<mhall119> lol
<mhall119> I've gotta leave for home now too
<highvoltage> mhall119: gtk themes can be hard, I'll actively resist a gtk them that doesn't have a community around it already, it's easy to make a bad, buggy gtk theme (see also: gnome-look.org)
<highvoltage> mhall119: ah, good idea
<mhall119> I plan on just creating a custom color scheme for clearlooks
<mhall119> I agree that full blown gtk themes can be....difficult
<highvoltage> I don't know if any of you had a chance to look at the youtube channel yet
<mhall119> not yet
<highvoltage> a lot of people made edubuntu videos
<highvoltage> I was really blown away when I searched for edubuntu on youtube and saw so many results, and then found that there were so many that were interesting
<highvoltage> it would be great to get some of those poeople involved and get them to do some edubuntu video docs
<mhall119> oh wow, company in Iowa is selling Qimo machines
<mhall119> sorry, tangent
<highvoltage> also feature some of them on the site
<highvoltage> mhall119: nice
<highvoltage> then all I'll mention for desktop improvements for now is the possibility of zeitgeist extensions
<highvoltage> mostly to allow a parent or teacher to see what programs kids have been using and what they've been up to
<highvoltage> it might be hard to do it right, we want to make teacher's jobs easier, but we also don't want to intrude to much on user privacy, etc
<highvoltage> ah and stgraber also suggested earlier that we should make Live LTSP an option when you choose "Install Edubuntu" or "Test Edubuntu" from the gfxboot screen, instead of having it a menu item
<highvoltage> actually that pretty much covers the list so far :)
<mhall119> \o/
 * mhall119 leaves for homoe
<mhall119> home even
<highvoltage> well, thanks for everyone! I guess that's the end of this meeting :)
<highvoltage> (and sorry if I blabbered on too much at parts :p)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-30
<thorwil> hi mpt, vish
<mpt> hi thorwil
<thorwil> JanC edited http://gitorious.org/ayatana-ux/pages/Home a bit
<thorwil> i added/edited http://gitorious.org/ayatana-ux/ayatana-ux/blobs/master/root.txt
<mpt> Jan also pointed me to http://dot.kde.org/2006/12/01/looking-back-three-years-openusability-jan-m%C3%BChlig
<thorwil> yes, i did read it and it's very fitting
<UndiFineD> it does not score high on readabilty :p
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-01
<dholbach> good morning
 * marjo waves
 * skaet starting to get ready for last maverick release meeting... 
<marjo> skaet: woohoo!
<skaet> marjo: yup...  its getting exciting. :D
<ScottK> \o
<skaet> hi ScottK
 * joshuahoover waves
<robbiew> \o
<skaet> hi joshuahoover, robbiew :)
<seb128> hey
<skaet> hi seb128,  I'm seeing most of the others in the channel,  so, time to start...
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> Great work over the last week, a big thank you to everyone!
<skaet> Awesome job on pulling the images together Riddell!!  :D
 * GrueMaster in for arm as ogra discovered that his arm image doesn't work when used to overwrite his x86 system...
<skaet> cool, welcome GrueMaster
<skaet> I'm aware of only one critical bug left (bug #641259) - other than the one that GrueMaster just ref'd and that's being actively worked right now too ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 641259 in grub2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "grub does not appear to load after maverick post-beta install" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641259
<skaet> Its really cool to watch this release coming together so well, due to all of your efforts...
<marjo> skaet: I'll be working with cjwatson to debug on my netbook
<marjo> on bug 641259
<skaet> thanks marjo.  :)
<skaet> Agenda for today can be found at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-10-01
<skaet> just so people know,  There's been a minor formatting change, just wanted to let you know that the bolded bugs are the ones that made it into the release candidate TechnicalOverview's Issues section
<cjwatson> oh good, I was wondering what that meant
<skaet> :)
<skaet> robbiew, wants the focus for this last meeting to be to be mostly on what can be closed off for release, and what will need documentation in the Release Notes.
<skaet> so,  moving right along...
<skaet> [TOPIC] Open action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open action items
<skaet> all open actions are done.
<skaet> thanks ogasawara, robbiew, Riddell :)
<skaet> any I missed from last week?
<skaet> ok,  silence is good here.
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA team update - marjo
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update - marjo
<marjo> skaet: may i include the RC test report?
<skaet> yes please.  :)
<marjo> = Maverick RC Test Report - 1st October 2010 =
<marjo> === Test Coverage ===
<marjo>  * Image Coverage: 100%
<marjo>  * Mandatory Testcase Coverage: 199/203 = 98.03%
<marjo>  * "Run Once" Testcase Coverage: 18/19 = 94.74%
<marjo> === Test Failure Analysis ===
<marjo>  * 16 Test Failures
<marjo>  * Failure Rate 16/237 = 6.75
<marjo> very good test results! thanks to everyone who helped with the ISO testing
<marjo> we appreciate it very much; failure rate is down to 6%
<cjwatson> do you have a summary of the remaining failures?
<marjo> cjwatson: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/MaverickRCTestReport
<marjo> i think it's better than listing it here
<skaet> sweet results overall marjo.    many thanks to everyone who's been testing the candidate!
<marjo> * Hardware Testing
<marjo> Laptops:
<marjo>      Passed:   44 (94%)    Failed:    0 ( 0%)    Untested:  3 ( 6%)
<marjo> Servers:
<marjo>      Passed:   51 (76%)    Failed:   15 (22%)    Untested:  1 ( 2%)
<marjo> Netbooks:
<marjo>      Passed:   13 (81%)    Failed:    0 ( 0%)    Untested:  3 (19%)
<marjo> Desktops:
<marjo>      Passed:   12 (86%)    Failed:    0 ( 0%)    Untested:  2 (14%)
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> * Boot Performance
<marjo> Boot Performance Week of 2010-09-24 to 2010-09-30
<marjo> -------------------------------------------------
<marjo> Number of system regressions on Ubuntu Desktop: 0
<marjo> Number of system regressions on Ubuntu Netbook Edition: 2
<marjo>         * Dell Inspiron 530 (Desktop) [1] +10.49
<marjo>         * Sun Ultra 20 (Desktop)  +12.06
<marjo>         
<marjo> [1] -
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/netbook/public_html/daily-bootcharts/200708-156.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/netbook/public_html/daily-bootcharts/200708-156.html
<marjo> [2] -
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/netbook/public_html/daily-bootcharts/200609-30.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/netbook/public_html/daily-bootcharts/200609-30.html
<marjo> Number of system regressions on Kubuntu: 0
<marjo> robbiew: please note regression for your initial triage
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> not enough data to be concerned about...but thx for the heads up
<marjo> robbiew: i'll take that as an "ack"
<marjo> * Spec Status
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-platform-qa-ubuntu-10.10.html
<marjo> Beautiful and very productive graph
<marjo> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-maverick-improving-communication
<marjo> ara on track for end-of-release
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-platform-qa-ubuntu-10.10.html
<marjo> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-maverick-mago-daily
<marjo> Beta available and we are getting help from JamesPage on packaging Hudson.
<marjo> skaet: that's it from QA team
<cjwatson> just FYI, using the "LP:#nnnnnn" form in the RC test report wiki makes it hard to follow links - removing the # would help
<marjo> cjwatson: thx for the feedback; will rework accordingly
<skaet> thanks marjo,  anyone else have questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Security team update -  jdstrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update -  jdstrand
<jdstrand> o/
<skaet> o/
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> The team has been reviewing security bugs that affect the maverick release, and have been pushing last minute updates in as needed.
<jdstrand> We reviewed the AppArmor profiles using jj's patches from the 0-day update kernel. Things look good there.
<skaet> cool.
<jdstrand> The team has and is continuing to perform various audits on the RC images, and so far everything looks good.
<jdstrand> these include various RNG tests and files in the default install (eg, suid, world writable, etc)
<jdstrand> We have several bugs that have been deferred for SRU (see SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick)
<jdstrand> In terms of release targeted bugs, we are looking at bug #600549, which recently moved back to Confirmed from Fix Released.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600549 in m2crypto (Ubuntu Maverick) "m2crypto fails to build from source in maverick" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600549
<jdstrand> that's pretty much it
<skaet> thanks.  does it look like 600549 will get addressed in time?   or something complicated?
<jdstrand> skaet: it was something simple last time. I only just noticed it this morning
<jdstrand> skaet: so I'm not totally sure
<skaet> fair 'nuf.
<ScottK> I suspect it's a ssl v2 test that fails because we don't support v2
 * jdstrand was thinking the same
<jdstrand> but mdeslaur looked at it before, and I asked him to look at it this time
<skaet> thanks jdstrand,   any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel team update - ogasawara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - ogasawara
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> For the bugs noted in the agenda, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> Bug 633983 - Per apw's investigation, this is most probabally an incompatibility between the Mac EFI implementation and the CDs; amd64 images now have specific EFI support and this is reported as a problem with Win7 CDs on these machines also. To confirm this we need to remaster the amd64 CD without EFI support. A remastered image has now been made available and testing requested.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 633983 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "Can't boot Maverick beta amd64 live cd on macbook (EFI)" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/633983
<ogasawara> Bug 633392 - Debug info not showing any obvious kernel errors, still investigating.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 633392 in linux (Ubuntu) "Bridged Guests losing network connectivity" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/633392
<ogasawara> Bug 628029 - Release noted - "Due to current hardware limitations it is not possible to use suspend on the Ubuntu ARM images for pandaboards (OMAP4) even though the suspend option is shown in the logout menu."
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628029 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "[maverick] panda omap4 does not suspend" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628029
<ogasawara> Bug 497546 - diwic is investigating.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 497546 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu Maverick) "Microphones not working on Dell Vostro 320" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497546
<ogasawara> Bug 503790 - Have posted a Maverick test kernel, waiting for feedback.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 503790 in linux (Ubuntu) "Copy to USB thumbdrive doesn't work" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503790
<ogasawara> We are planning for a day 0 kernel upload which primarily consists of security updates, see bug 647071 for more info. We are continuing to queue Maverick SRU patches, including the 2.6.35.5, 2.6.35.6, and 2.6.35.7 upstream stable patch sets.  Also, all of our work items have been closed for the Maverick cycle.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 647071 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "0-day Maverick Kernel Upload" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/647071
<skaet> sweet
<ogasawara> We've also done a last minute upload of module-init-tools to temporarily disable 11n functionality for the iwlagn driver until Intel releases updated firmware to resolve bug 630748.  Can we get an archive admin to approve this from the upload queue?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 630748 in module-init-tools (Ubuntu Maverick) "iwlagn degrades quickly during normal wifi session" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/630748
<cjwatson> if it's in the upload queue it'll be looked at
<ogasawara> perfect, thanks
<ogasawara> Any other questions?
<seb128> got one
<cjwatson> yeah, that should be fine, will approve
<seb128> asac noticed that alt-printscreen stopped working
<seb128> it seems it doesn't even trigger a key event in xev
<seb128> was that a kernel change on how sysreq,printsreen is handled?
<seb128> we failed to figure what part of the stack could be to blame, asac though it might be a kernel option for sysreq
<seb128> ?
<ogasawara> seb128: ah that bug, from a kernel perspective it's expected behavior, ie SysRq handling is enabled by default thus Alt+PrtScrn is interpreted as SysRq
<seb128> hum
<seb128> so what do you suggest as a way to fix the "take a screenshot"?
<ogasawara> seb128: I posted 3 suggested options to the bug
<seb128> ok, I need to find the bug
<seb128> I just discussed on IRC so I was not sure there was a bug open and on what component
<seb128> I will check for it thanks
<ogasawara> seb128: I've got the bug # here somewhere, will ping you with it
<seb128> ogasawara, thanks
<seb128> that's it from me ;-)
<skaet> thanks ogasawara,  nice update - will use your release noted comments.
<skaet> any other questions?
<ogasawara> seb128: bug 642792
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 642792 in metacity (Ubuntu Maverick) "ALT+PrtSc not recognised" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/642792
<skaet> [TOPIC] Foundations team update - cjwatson
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#RC%20Milestoned%20bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#RC%20Milestoned%20bugs
<cjwatson> Lots of bugs from the agenda fixed.  One or two more things still in progress.
<cjwatson> Bug 641259 - grub does not appear to load after maverick post-beta install
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 641259 in grub2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "grub does not appear to load after maverick post-beta install" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641259
<cjwatson>  * I'll debug this on Wednesday once I get my hands on an affected machine.  Unfortunately there's no practical way to do it earlier.
<cjwatson> Bug 610898 - Upgrading Wubi systems from 10.04 LTS is known to fail if Wubi was installed to a partition other than the primary Windows partition, and is not recommended at this time.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 610898 in lupin (Ubuntu) "grub-pc upgrade renders computer unbootable when Wubi is installed to partition other than Windows" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610898
<cjwatson>  * This is probably release notes fodder as I suspect that we would have needed information to be saved at initial install time in order to know where C: is with any reliability; but advice from Windows experts welcome.
<cjwatson> Bug 642344 - libspring-2.5-java needs an initial manual build
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 642344 in libspring-2.5-java (Ubuntu Maverick) "libspring-2.5-java needs an initial manual build" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/642344
<cjwatson>  * In progress with IS.
<cjwatson> Bug 594162 - segmentation fault while downloading preseed file
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 594162 in busybox (Ubuntu Maverick) "segmentation fault while downloading preseed file" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/594162
<cjwatson>  * This may still turn out to be intractable, but we have a possible patch in a PPA for testing now.
<cjwatson> Bug 633983 - Can't boot Maverick beta amd64 live cd on macbook (EFI)
<cjwatson> Bug 652522 - modules missing from omap netboot image
<cjwatson>  * Straightforward non-intrusive fix.
<cjwatson> Other than that we're looking at build failure bugs and upgrade bugs as time permits.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 633983 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "Can't boot Maverick beta amd64 live cd on macbook (EFI)" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/633983
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 652522 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "modules missing from omap netboot image." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652522
<cjwatson>  * I think this will need to be release-noted as an unresolvable conflict between support for UEFI systems coming down the pipe and support for the Mac EFI implementation.  The i386 CD is still BIOS-only and we'll try to keep it that way.
<cjwatson> --
<skaet> release note fodder,  noted.  ;)   thanks.
<cjwatson> marjo: (note my comment above about 594162, in case your folks don't notice the update on the bug)
<marjo> cjwatson: thx
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> ... or am I rushing things?
<GrueMaster> cjwatson: Do we need to have netboot images for omap4 as well?
<GrueMaster> If so, I'll add that to D-I
<cjwatson> GrueMaster: if we do then it's too late
<GrueMaster> ok.
<GrueMaster> Pick it up in N
<cjwatson> GrueMaster: they'd need to have had at least some testing well before this, I'd have thought
<cjwatson> I mean, we don't have *any* d-i images for omap4
<GrueMaster> I was only told about omap yesterday.
<cjwatson> right, we've been building other d-i omap images for some time though
<GrueMaster> I'll bring it up with ogra offline.
<cjwatson> so it's a matter of fixing existing images rather than adding new ones
<cjwatson> if it is declared necessary by People In Charge then please let me and skaet know ASAP ...
<GrueMaster> will do.
<skaet> anything else cjwatson,  before moving on?
<cjwatson> not from me
<skaet> cool.   thanks cjwatson
<skaet> [TOPIC] Server team update - ttx
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - ttx
<Daviey> Hi o/
<Daviey> (/me is standing in for ttx)
<Daviey> We seem to be in a really good position at the moment.  Perhaps the calm before the storm from any issues the RC produces.
<skaet> hi Daviey
<Daviey> hi skaet
<Daviey> I won't repeat the full report (unless anyone wants me to),
<Daviey> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<Daviey> - status marked in-line.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<Daviey> We don't have any High, Critical or Release Milestoned bugs that currently need our attention.
<Daviey> The RC is lacking a fix for Bug #650893 , but this is an apt-get upgrade and should be on the Final.  In all, we seem to be in a really good shape as it stands.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 650893 in cups (Ubuntu Maverick) "[maverick] cups does not start at boot time" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/650893
<Daviey> (/me is pleased)
<ScottK> Daviey: Bug #651138 is listed under MOTU, but it's in Main and a server package.  FYI.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 651138 in likewise-open (Ubuntu Maverick) "likewise-open fails to build from source in maverick" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/651138
<Daviey> I am a little concerned with 641259:grub does not load upon reboot after installing. There is no message indicating that grub is loading, nor does holding shift have any effect - ( Unsure of direction, assigned to cjwatson)
<Daviey> bug #641259
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 641259 in grub2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "grub does not appear to load after maverick post-beta install" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641259
<Daviey> ScottK: Ok, one moment...
<cjwatson> I mentioned that in my report above
<cjwatson> of course I can only hope that the issue on Marjo's netbook is the same thing
<cjwatson> 16:31 <cjwatson>  * I'll debug this on Wednesday once I get my hands on an affected machine.  Unfortunately there's no practical way to do it earlier.
<Daviey> ScottK: Ok, thanks - i'll add that to our watch list.
<Daviey> ScottK: nobody is currently looking at that one afaik.. but i will make sue it's on someones radar.
<Daviey> cjwatson: Ah yes, sorry - did read that.
<skaet> thanks Daviey , ScottK.   will note it as well.
<skaet> any other questions?
<Daviey> not from me o/
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop team update - seb128
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team update - seb128
<seb128> hey
<seb128> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<seb128> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html
<seb128> - GNOME 2.32 got uploaded
<seb128> - Lot of bug fixing in the desktop and unity
<seb128> - RC testing was mostly fine, not real blocker issues spotted
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html
<seb128>  
<seb128> bugs:
<seb128>  * bug #650898: launchpad says it doesn't exist, wrong bug number?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: 650898 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/650898)
<seb128>  * bug #646995: require archive admin processing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 646995 in stage (Ubuntu Maverick) "build-depends on NBS libplayercore2-dev/libplayerc2-dev; not fixed in Debian, removed from Debian testing" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/646995
<seb128>  * bug #646824: somebody from the community is working on it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 646824 in xvidcap (Ubuntu Maverick) "xvidcap fails to build from source" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/646824
<seb128>  * bug #639835: has been fixed today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 639835 in desktopcouch "Views fail to reconnect after server restart" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/639835
<seb128>  * bug #610600: will not be fixed for maverick, also listed in the "need documentation in the release notes" category
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 610600 in Cheese "Serious video performance regression in cheese (2.28.1->2.30.1)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610600
<seb128>  * bug #575160: has a candidate fix which is being reviewed
<seb128>  * bug #640432: is being investigated
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575160 in seamonkey (Ubuntu Maverick) "seamonkey 2.0 crashes with 'RenderBadPicture' diagnostics" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575160
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 640432 in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau (Ubuntu Maverick) "X does not start (nouveau)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/640432
<skaet> will look into what snafu'd on 650898.
<skaet> seb128,  I'll follow up on it, after the meeting with you.
<seb128> skaet, ok
<skaet> thanks seb128
<skaet> any questions?
<ScottK> seb128: xvidcap should just need a merge from Debian Multimedia
<ScottK> (646824)
<seb128> ScottK, ok thanks
<ScottK> You're welcome.
 * skaet looks around...   figures its time to move on.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Ubuntu one update - joshuahoover
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu one update - joshuahoover
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/MaverickReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> hi! the list of high/critical u1 bugs are found on that release status page i posted
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/MaverickReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> we really only have one bug left that we'd like to get in for final (today) if possible...
<joshuahoover> bug #647483 - there's some u1-client help text that isn't translatable...nessita chatted with seb128 about the problem (not the specific bug at that time) & it sounded like this would be ok to get in
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 647483 in Ubuntu One Client stable-1-4 "Ubuntu One help text contains non-translatable text" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/647483
<joshuahoover> if it's not possible, then we'll have to do an sru...i just need to confirm that it's ok to get this in today or not :)
<skaet> robbiew, cjwatson: ^^^
<joshuahoover> thanks skaet, forgot to poke them there :)
<skaet> heh
<cjwatson> that can still go in but you need to let ubuntu-translators know and you won't get actual translations for release
<cjwatson> (post-release language packs might include them though)
<robbiew> right...that was my thought (re translations)
<joshuahoover> cjwatson, robbiew: ok, i'll let ubuntu-translators know
<joshuahoover> that's all i have for ubuntu one...questions?
<ScottK> I don't see an advantage to doing it now over an SRU then.
<robbiew> good point
<cjwatson> there is that, yes
<joshuahoover> ah, ok...that's true
<robbiew> less changes in the RC the better :D
<skaet> joshuahoover, so for the bugs listed in the agenda,  will all need release notes?
<joshuahoover> we'll do an sru for that
<joshuahoover> skaet: on 617656, yes, for sure
<joshuahoover> skaet: on 603590, we can note that one
<joshuahoover> skaet: 422178 is released in maverick, we're going to do an sru for lucid and karmic
<joshuahoover> skaet: i think that is it
<skaet> cool.   thanks.   will work with you offline then for the wordings?
<skaet> any other questions?
<joshuahoover> skaet: sure, sounds good :)
<skaet> thanks joshuahoover
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu team update - Riddell
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu team update - Riddell
<Riddell> ooh, me
<skaet> yup.  :)
<Riddell>  * Kubuntu 10.10 RC out, went pleasingly smooth
<Riddell>  * http://tinyurl.com/33p7vu3  back up to 15 tagged bugs, none critical, none release blockers
<Riddell>  * Ubuntu font is now default in Kubuntu, slight deviation from the release schedule there but nobody will notice :)
<Riddell>  * upload of Qt expected today (to fix GTK bugs), no other major uploads expected
<Riddell>  * KDM still crashing on logout for some, but workaround in a proposed release note, bug 651294
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 651294 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "X crash on KDM logout (still - yes, really)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/651294
<Riddell>  * I'd also like to see bug 634664 fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 634664 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Updates not installed when selected and internet is available" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/634664
<cjwatson> ev appeared to think that was by design
<cjwatson> i.e. it's only supposed to download them
<cjwatson> (and yes, maybe the text could be clearer, but we're string-frozen now)
<Riddell> cjwatson: it doesn't download them.  but I've another bug to investigate about ubiquity not getting removed on OEM installs before I hassle him more
<cjwatson> if it doesn't even download them, that hasn't been made clear in the bug
<ev> Riddell: you're certain that updates are available and there aren't any files in /var/cache/apt/archives post-install?
<Riddell> ev: there are files from the restricted install in /var/cache/apt/archives
<Riddell> but nothing else
<inetpro> Riddell: thanks to the kubuntu team, I tested the rc in a vm yesterday and it was a great experience!
<Riddell> yay
<ev> restricted install?
<Riddell> the kubuntu team are very rocking
<Riddell> ev: kubuntu-restricted-addons
<ev> sorry, I mean /target/var/cache/apt/archives
<ev> assuming you haven't rebooted into the final system
<Riddell> /var/cache/apt/archives after a reboot
<skaet> thanks Riddell and Kubuntu team.  :)
<ev> hm, at the very least we should be pushing the apt-get stdout to /var/log/installer/debug
<ev> Riddell: I'll look into it on Monday
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Experience - davidbarth
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience - davidbarth
 * skaet looks around for davidbarth,  anyone know?
<robbiew> hmm...might have a conflict
<skaet> ok,  guess better move on for now then...   see if he catches up with us later.
<davidbarth> yep
<davidbarth> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> is the the status report
<davidbarth> sorry, just on a call at the same time
<seb128> davidbarth, the font change went in yesterday
<davidbarth> there is not much to mention at this point
<seb128> bug #649616
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 649616 in ubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu Maverick) "FFE: Use font='Ubuntu' as default UI font in default themes" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/649616
<davidbarth> the last hiccup having been the shotwell issue with the messaging menu, and we've decided to blacklist it at this point, while we review a better fix for that problem
<davidbarth> the font change was the other bug on the radar, and as seb128 mentions, it's in now
<davidbarth> any questions?
<skaet> thanks davidbarth.  :)
<inetpro> davidbarth: the font looks awesome
<davidbarth> thanks, i'll pass on the kudos
<skaet> ... moving along now...
<skaet> [TOPIC] MOTU team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - ScottK
<ScottK> Hello
<skaet> hello
<ScottK> The only bug left on your list is the wx one.
<ScottK> I don't think it's really RC anymore.
<ScottK> Anyone that wants to be TIL wxwidgets is welcome to fix it.
<skaet> okie.
<skaet> anything that should be on the list that isn't?
<ScottK> Making good progress on NBS and FTBFS .
<pitti> we still have a couple of NBS, too
<pitti> many wf which are powerpc specific
<ScottK> Still some to do.
<pitti> shoudl we just ditch those and say "shrug"?
<ScottK> At some point.
<pitti> (a lot of packages FTBFS on powerpc)
<pitti> i. e. it's not just a simple rebuild, these were already done
<ScottK> More FTBFS on armel, but most of them have never built on armel, so don't affect NBS.
<ScottK> http://skitterman.wordpress.com/2010/09/30/build-failures-as-a-proxy-for-archive-quality/ BTW
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://skitterman.wordpress.com/2010/09/30/build-failures-as-a-proxy-for-archive-quality/ BTW
<ScottK> skaet: I'm not aware of anything RC that's not on the list and should be.
<skaet> cool.   :D
 * ScottK is a bit distracted today trying to adjust to the font.
 * ogra_ac wishes he had only font issues :P
<ScottK> That's all I have.
<skaet> ScottK, which day did we decide on as final freeze for MOTU for those not on the images?
<cjwatson> some of the NBS are false positives - omap4 stuff showing up there is a bug
<pitti> it's still building
<ScottK> skaet: I need to look it up.
<cjwatson> it's finished building now actually
<cjwatson> it's still a bug that it shows up there while building though
<skaet> ScottK,  thanks.
<cjwatson> anyway, should go away in 20 minutes or so
<ScottK> skaet: Noon UTC on October 6.
<pitti> cjwatson: NBS running hourly now?
<cjwatson> yep
<cjwatson> I optimised it, it takes a minute to generate now
<cjwatson> (archive-cruft-check.py runtime plus <10 seconds)
<ScottK> :-)
<pitti> my final question, do we already have staffing for Sunday's release actions?
<skaet> ScottK, nice blog post,  will ask some questions offline.  :)
<ScottK> Sure thing.
<pitti> I guess it should pretty much be "run sync-mirrors", "send out email", and "update web page"
<pitti> ?
<cjwatson> slightly different question, who's definitively not available on Sunday?
 * cjwatson raises hand
<pitti> if necessary, I can be available
<Riddell> I'm about
<Riddell> but I'd like to check that all the people who need to sign off on images will do so
<pitti> I just don't have enough powers to publish the announcement on the website
<cjwatson> (raising hand as unavailable, FAOD)
<pitti> i. e. we need newz2000 or someone with similar powers
<skaet> newz2000 is going to be available.
<robbiew> yeah
<cjwatson> signoff ought to happen the day before, imo
<pitti> so, skip the "if necessary", I'll hang out
<pitti> cjwatson: +1
<skaet> thanks pitti
<Riddell> and that there is someone assigned to makeing the release notes and techinical overview
 * ogra_ac likes to note that the arm team still looks for an available archiv admin to review opengles-sgx-omap3, powervr-omap3 and devmem2 in NEW
<pitti> I think on Friday or at most Sat we should have the images ready and pre-published
<cjwatson> elmo asked us to defer prepublication to Sat
<pitti> ack
<robbiew> I would like ISOs all tested by Friday...then we move them out Saturday (late to avoid OMG crap)...and then announce Sunday
<cjwatson> since otherwise the quasi-hidden URLs leak too early
<pitti> so when we wait for newz2000, we won't release at 10:10 UTC, I figure :)
<ScottK> Can't cron do the release?
<robbiew> pitti: he actually said he would wake up early for it :P
<ogra_ac> ScottK, lol
<pitti> robbiew: nice
<skaet> I'll be working with robbiew to get release notes done through the next week, and looking for input during the work week. :)
<pitti> robbiew: should be 30 mins or so for him
<robbiew> ScottK: nah...wouldn't have my signature cut-and-paste typos ;)
<Riddell> am I right in thinking that the names on the right are the people who need to say the image is good for release? https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MaverickMeerkat/ReleaseManifest
<robbiew> dude...the kubuntu theme doesn't work for me
<robbiew> Riddell: and yes
<Riddell> and will they all be around?  because several weren't for the RC
<pitti> Riddell: do you know how to send a mail to ubuntu-announce@? I don't (any more)
<robbiew> I do :)
<Riddell> pitti: I have memories of it needing a special header
<robbiew> and I will be around
<pitti> robbiew: okay; I guess the text will be ready Fri, we just need to send/moderate on Sun
<robbiew> I have moderate access to ubuntu-announce
<robbiew> and can send
<robbiew> ;)
<pitti> ok, cool
<pitti> so, seems Sunday is mostly mechanical "press the button" stuff then
<robbiew> I'll be stuck in London...so have no problems working the weekend ;)
<robbiew> ack
<Riddell> so who's writing the announcement and release notes?
<pitti> ok, I'll still be around, just in case
<robbiew> Riddell: me
<robbiew> with skaet's help
<ScottK> Riddell: Careful you don't volunteer.
<robbiew> heh
<pitti> release notes will mostly be from the RC one, I guess, plus adaptions from this week's updates?
<GrueMaster> Are we skipping over Arm status, or coming back to it?
<ScottK> skaet: On a different topic, for UDS, would you please schedule a session (propose a blueprint) for a Ubuntu Release Team BOF)?
<robbiew> pitti: ack
<Riddell> and who's going to be building and tracking ISOs?
<skaet> yup... waiting to get to ARM.
<GrueMaster> ok
<cjwatson> I guess we should do the building/tracking from London
<robbiew> yeah
<skaet> ScottK,  ack
<ScottK> Thanks.
<pitti> skaet: will you be in London, too?
<skaet> yup
<skaet> getting to see it all first hand.  :)
<robbiew> it's all good...don't panic ;)
<cjwatson> skaet and I at least will be there and have image-build access
<pitti> skaet: enjoy!
<skaet> pitti,  thanks.
<pitti> cjwatson, skaet: btw, during my alpha RM I wrote a script to generate publish-release.py commands from the ISO tracker
<pitti> it needs some adaptions for the slightly different options for final, but it might serve as a good base
<cjwatson> I was just telling Riddell about that the other day for RC
<cjwatson> I used it for beta
<pitti> it finds the right time stamps, has the quirks for the spethial directories for server, etc.
<Riddell> actually I have a copy of all the ones I used for RC
<cjwatson> (and extended it, so it should mostly be workable for final now)
<pitti> great
<marjo> robbiew: +1 on the "don't panic"
<cjwatson> Riddell: can you mail me them and I'll reconcile?
<Riddell> ok
<cjwatson> ta
<skaet> pitti,  cool.  looking forward to cjwatson showing me it.
<skaet> time to move on to ARM now I think....
<pitti> so in natty we'll have a mostly automatic publishing script then, nice
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team update - GrueMaster
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - GrueMaster
<GrueMaster> Bear with me as I am new to the Release meetings.  If I screw up, slap ogra for nuking his x86 with an arm image.  :P
<GrueMaster> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<GrueMaster> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<GrueMaster> Work is actively being done on 3 audio bugs (bug 651302, bug 651281, bug 628217) on separate platforms.  Generally the same issue on all three.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 651302 in linux (Ubuntu) "No sound in omap (beagle, beagleXM)." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/651302
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 651281 in linux-mvl-dove (Ubuntu) "Need alsa configuration files for Dove A0 SOC platform" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/651281
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628217 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "No audio output from analog ports on panda (omap4)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628217
<GrueMaster> The big critical one is Bug 646421, as in order to fix it, we either need a fix prior to release or it won't be fixed in maverick.  Can't SRU without respinning images as our images are preinstalled.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 646421 in user-setup (Ubuntu Maverick) "oem-config process that zero's swap broken on armel preinstalled images" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/646421
<GrueMaster> Other than that, the images are looking very good.
<GrueMaster> Most of the team will be onsite at TI next week to bring up final on their release candidate platform.
<ogra_ac> and there are opengles-sgx-omap3, powervr-omap3 and devmem2 in NEW that we would like to have reviewed :)
 * ogra_ac is partially here
<ogra_ac> also the general note ... omap4 kernels might come in late in the game
<ogra_ac> as well as bootloader changes
<cjwatson> 646421> your team is responsible for that, right?
<ogra_ac> i had planned to work on that today
<cjwatson> right, just wanted to make sure it hadn't fallen between the arm/foundations cracks
<ogra_ac> the fix will me max 5 lines or so i think, i just need to get a usable system again
<ogra_ac> and someone to approve
<ogra_ac> writing it is less work than testing it i gues
<ogra_ac> s
<cjwatson> yes, I'd expect it to be small code
<ogra_ac> oh, and sine it wasnt mentioned ... omap4 images will very likely be delayed
<ogra_ac> *since
<ogra_ac> due to the above
<skaet>  thanks GrueMaster, ogra_ac.
<ogra_ac> (as usually, my general note)
<cjwatson> ogra_ac: can you confirm that we don't need d-i images on omap4?
<cjwatson> ("nice-to-have" excluded)
<ogra_ac> cjwatson, yes
<cjwatson> good, thanks
<ogra_ac> and not even nice to have
<ogra_ac> we dont have partman setup
<cjwatson> right
<ogra_ac> or bootloader install
<cjwatson> yeah, hence my concern about late-arrival images.  thanks.
<skaet>  good luck wishes to the team onsite at TI.
<ogra_ac> only preinstalled :)
<skaet> any other questions?
<ogra_ac> (this is a really lovely format for development btw ... you can test changes immediately)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro team update - JamieBennett
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro team update - JamieBennett
 * skaet looks around... guess its getting a bit late
<skaet> moving on...
<skaet> [TOPIC] Open floor, new issues, etc.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open floor, new issues, etc.
<skaet> I think we've covered the key release logistics a bit earlier.
<Riddell> who's going to London?
<skaet> anyone else have any comments, concerns, etc. ?
<Riddell> rickspencer3, jiboumans and davidm were the missing sign-off people from the RC, will they be there?
<skaet> Riddell,  there's a wiki page.   I'll post a link
<skaet> jib won't be,  but the others will.
<robbiew> all but jib...but we'll have ttx and Daviey
<rickspencer3> I'll be there
<robbiew> hell...and I'll sign-off if need be ;)
 * robbiew just assumes the power...if that's what's needed to get the ISO out :D
<Riddell> good to know we take our QA seriously
<marjo> Riddell: but we do
<skaet> marjo will be there too.  :)
<skaet> ok,  if nothing else,  then its probably time to end this.
<skaet> thanks everyone.
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:44.
<marjo> skaet: thx!
<robbiew> btw...no meeting next week ;)
<Daviey> Riddell: ttx asked about the RC status if we were happy with it.  I told him the outstanding stuff, and he seemed happy to sign it off.  This was in #u-release .
<Riddell> Daviey: I know, I had to text him to get him to do that.  and he's not the person listed as the one who should do it anyway
<robbiew> Riddell: right...but he's the tech lead, and if jib is unavailable, I think common sense dictates the he's the best alternate ;).
<Daviey> ok, noted.
<skaet> thanks marjo, robbiew, Daviey, GrueMaster, cjwatson, ScottK, davidbarth, joshuahoover, seb128, ogasawara, jdstrand,  Riddell.
<skaet> good meeting.
<seb128> skaet, thanks
<joshuahoover> thank you skaet
<pitti> have a nice weekend everyoen
<Daviey> thanks o/
 * Daviey EoW's
<jdstrand> o/
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<inkvizitor68sl> $ÑÐ¼
<jpds> inkvizitor68sl: Hi.
<inkvizitor68sl> hi.
<inkvizitor68sl> bug at ZNC xD
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-26
 * micahg waves
<Laney> greetings
 * bdrung waves
<micahg> stgraber: DMB meeting?
<stgraber> :/me waves
 * stgraber waves
<micahg> ok, we have quorom, let
<Laney> s go
<micahg> 's get started...
<Laney> :-)
<micahg> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 26 14:03:32 2011 UTC.  The chair is micahg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<micahg> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:  Review of previous action items
<micahg> #subtopic Laney to start thread on ubuntu-devel about renaming UCD
<Laney> O_O
<Laney> clearly not done, sorry
<Laney> do people care much about this?
<Laney> ahem.
<bdrung> Laney: it would be nice to have a better name, but there was no better one proposed yet
<micahg> I don't think it's so bad, but I'd have to go back and look at the reason why we decided to change this in the first place
<Laney> I don't want a tiresome bikeshedding thread for choosing a new name
<bdrung> because it can be misinterpreted
<Laney> I said we should use Ubuntu Development Members as that's in line with other stuff but some people didn't like that (I don't remember why)
<bdrung> Laney: we should collect name suggestions and then discuss it here.
<Laney> ok i'll start it soon then
<micahg> Laney: thanks, carried forward then
<micahg> #subtopic geser to e-mail the TB with the result of the poll
<micahg> I believe this was done
<Laney> yeah
<micahg> #subtopic stgraber to add micahg to the mailing-list once TB has added him to the team
<micahg> this was done as well
<micahg> #subtopic jono to ask Daniel to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers to be easier to read
<micahg> I think that the main membership page was updated, but not the Developers page yet
<micahg> dholbach: is the above on your list?
<micahg> well, carried forward until we can find out...
<micahg> #subtopic cody-somerville to write some documentation on how to endorse someone
<micahg> carried forward as Cody's not here
<micahg> #subtopic stgraber to get the list of all package sets and their content somewhere online
<stgraber> http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/
<micahg> \o/
<micahg> thanks stgraber
<Laney> WOO!
<dholbach> micahg, add to which mailing list?
<micahg> dholbach: sorry, I meant on your to do list :)
<dholbach> I didn't have time to look into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers yet, but I'll bump the priority
<micahg> dholbach: were you at least asked :)
<Laney> can we have the team and packageset name in the reports?
<dholbach> Jono indeed mentioned it to me
<micahg> dholbach: excellent, thank you
<Laney> team â LP ID of uploader(s)
<stgraber> Laney: package set name is the filename but I'm happy to add it to the report as well
<Laney> cheers
<micahg> stgraber: I think Laney is referring to the uploaders team
<Laney> both
<micahg> ah, heh, missed the first line :)
<stgraber> Laney: I can expand the teams though probably won't do it recursively as it may take a while in some cases
<Laney> I don't care about recursively, just the top-level entries
<Laney> although I hope there will only be one of those ... :-)
<bdrung> stgraber: can you put the generation script into a bzr branch under our hood?
<micahg> well, top level of the teams should have multiple people hopefully
<stgraber> bdrung: sure, I'll do that. What project should I use?
<bdrung> good question. +junk?
<stgraber> I guess that'd be a start :)
<micahg> #action stgraber to publish packageset generation script so the rest of the DMB can help maintain it
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to publish packageset generation script so the rest of the DMB can help maintain it
<Laney> and get it auto deployed ;-)
<Laney> bzr pull && ...
<stgraber> yep
<micahg> does that need a second action?
<Laney> nah, I'm sure he can remember
<micahg> ok, anythiing else about this script?
<stgraber> indeed :)
<bdrung> rule the world ;)
<stgraber> updated script is running at the moment :)
<Laney> we should link it from somewhere
<stgraber> yeah, the developer membership wikipage would be a good candidate
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Ubuntu_Developers_.28from_delegated_teams.29
<bdrung> stgraber: Launchpad.login_with('testcase') -> better app name than testcase, please
<Laney> can we do code review some other time?
<stgraber> bdrung: looks like some copy/paste, will fix that :)
<stgraber> Laney: sure
<Laney> ty
<micahg> ok, yes, let's debug the script later
<micahg> moving on
<micahg> #topic Administrative Matters
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:  Administrative Matters
<micahg> #subtopic Continue discussion on Ubuntu Developer Survey Report with jono
<Laney> I guess we should have some TB involvement?
<micahg> well, did we exhaust the subject ourselves or do we want a joint meeting before that?
<micahg> or did you have something else in mind?
<Laney> dunno, I just thought the idea was to have them involved
<Laney> didn't see any reaction on the email from them though
<micahg> well, perhaps we can discuss this further once the wiki gets updated to clarify the membership guidelines
<Laney> i suppose the main issues were dealt with
<micahg> right, it seems so
<micahg> I'll leave this on the agenda and we can discuss with jono at the next meeting
<micahg> #subtopic Continue discussion about our package set management workflows
<micahg> I think we should wait to discuss this until the end as we can easily run out the clock with it
<micahg> any objections?
<bdrung> no
<Laney> nah, go ahead
<stgraber> sounds good
<micahg> #topic PerPackageUploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:  PerPackageUploader Applications
<Laney> as long as we do, because I know how I think it should work :-)
<micahg> #subtopic cyphermox applying for PPU for usb-modeswitch*
<micahg> cyphermox: are you around?
<cyphermox> yup
<micahg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mtrudel/PPU-usbmodeswitch
 * micahg wonders if that worked...
<cyphermox> IIRC you don't get ack for #link :)
<micahg> cyphermox: can you please introduce yourself?
<cyphermox> sure
<cyphermox> I'm a developer working for Canonical on the Ubuntu Desktop team. My "official" task is to maintain NetworkManager, but I also usually touch other things such as evolution and generally interested in the networking stack
<cyphermox> as such, usb-modeswitch is a clear dependency/important point, when you want to use 3G devices
<cyphermox> at UDS-O we discussed porting the usb-modeswitch dispatcher script from Tcl to C which is what I've done, and a big part of why I'd like to be able to upload it directly
<cyphermox> (just keeping up maintenance and porting changes to the upstream script to the C version)
<Laney> do you anticipate having to maintain this patch in Ubuntu for long?
<cyphermox> Laney: no. I've already spoken to the Debian maintainer and upstream author, the plan is to have both versions available from upstream
<bdrung> cyphermox: why both? what drawbacks does the C version have?
<cyphermox> bdrung: mainly the one of not being as editable by users directly; which is something upstream sees as important.
<bdrung> sounds plausible
<cyphermox> bdrung: my feeling is that it's mostly a matter of keeping it in a scripted language, I haven't really had other responses from upstream
<Laney> can't you close bug 679256 now? :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 679256 in usb-modeswitch (Debian) "drop tcl/tclsh dependency" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/679256
<cyphermox> yes, I can ;)
 * Laney has no real questions
<Laney> thanks for getting the endorsers
<Laney> oh, and please subscribe to bugs for -data
<cyphermox> oh, indeed, good point
<tumbleweed> cyphermox was very helpful when I ran into issues related to those packages, thiscycle
<tumbleweed> (drive by endorsement)
 * bdrung has no questions.
<micahg> cyphermox: I'm just curious about your response to what slangasek said on your app under Areas of Improvement
 * bdrung has only 30 mins left.
<cyphermox> micahg: well, it's right, it was a dumb move, not sure what else to add :)
<micahg> cyphermox: ok
<stgraber> cyphermox: wasn't that related to the PATH from within udev being broken at some point (just remembered you mentioning something like that, so thought it could be related)
<cyphermox> stgraber: well, it was based on the fact that it *could* be missing, but testing it proved it was available from udev when the script was called
<stgraber> ok
 * stgraber is ready to vote
<micahg> #vote cyphermox to gain PPU for usb-modeswitch and usb-modeswitch-data
<meetingology> Please vote on: cyphermox to gain PPU for usb-modeswitch and usb-modeswitch-data
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<micahg> cody-somerville: ?
<Laney> brb
<micahg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: cyphermox to gain PPU for usb-modeswitch and usb-modeswitch-data
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg> cyphermox: congratulations
<bdrung> congrats
<stgraber> cyphermox: congrats
<cyphermox> thanks
<micahg> jamespage: are you around?
<jamespage> yep!
<micahg> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
<micahg> #subtopic James Page
<micahg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesPage/CoreDevApplication
<micahg> jamespage: unfortunately, we only have 12 minutes before the next meeting, but we can see how far we get here
<micahg> jamespage: please introduce yourself
<jamespage> OK
<jamespage> So my name is James Page and I work for Canonical as a member of the Ubuntu Server Platform team
<jamespage> I have been contributing as a developer to Ubuntu for the last year; my contributions  have mainly been server related with a particular focus on Java.
<jamespage> I already have upload permissions for the ubuntu-server packageset (June this year)
<bdrung> jamespage: why do you want to become MOTU too?
<jamespage> having a broader set of upload permissions would really help me work more effectively - and reduce the sponsorship burden I place on others at the moment
<jamespage> bdrung: I would like to be recognised as MOTU as well I have a keen interest in helping ensure the quality of packages in universe
<jamespage> most of the Java packages I have worked on are in universe
<bdrung> jamespage: motu != universe. what have you done in the motu team?
<jamespage> and I think having MOTU membership as well as core-dev recognises this contribtuion
<micahg> jamespage: were you aware that core-dev membership includes membership in the MOTU team?
<jamespage> micahg: yes I was
<jamespage> bdrung: I have helped a few people on IRC (mainly pointing them in the right direction)
<jamespage> note sure whether its directly related to MOTU but I also ran a UDW session - helping raise awareness of the Java packaging toolset
<micahg> jamespage: your direct uploads appear to have ceased at the end of July, is there any reason for this?
<jamespage> micahg: I think that reflects that I work outside of the server packageset that I have upload access to
<jamespage> and the fact that eucalyptus moved out of the packageset; taking alot of java dep's with it
<micahg> right, but what about the stuff in the package set, what happens to it, are you still keeping an eye on those packages?
<micahg> or were the java packages your main focus in that packageset?
<jamespage> I definately have more focus on the java packages in that packageset - but its not exclusive
<micahg> ok, any more questions?
<jamespage> I have a few contributions to the packaging of openstack (nova) - but we do that through a packaging branch
<bdrung> micahg: no
<jamespage> so it not always relected in my personal upload history
<stgraber> I'm ready to vote
<micahg> Laney: anything else?
<Laney> got pulled away, sorry
<micahg> we have 2 minutes....
<micahg> Laney: any questions for jamespage or can we vote?
<Laney> my only question is social and is in regard to the MOTU application
<Laney> do you feel you are as involved with the MOTU community as you should be?
<Laney> s/you/a MOTU/ :-)
<jamespage> Laney: honestly - I feel I could be more involved
<micahg> time's up...I guess we'll take this to the mailing list
<Laney> thought so
 * Daviey raises pompom's for JamesPage.
<Laney> I am ready to vote
<Laney> if you still want to do it now
<micahg> #vote jamespage to become core-dev (with social MOTU membership)
<Daviey> micahg: If the others are ready to vote, couldn't it be achieved in meeting?
<meetingology> Please vote on: jamespage to become core-dev (with social MOTU membership)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Laney> argh
<Laney> you should hav edone that separately!
<micahg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: jamespage to become core-dev (with social MOTU membership)
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<micahg> #vote jamespage to become core-dev
<meetingology> Please vote on: jamespage to become core-dev
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<Laney> no qualms about quality of work, good testimonials
<Laney> good observations of your interactions with the release team :-)
<micahg> +0, I don't have any technical reservations, but just a question if there have been enough main uploads that belong outside the packageset of server (which I think is broken), I"ll have to discuss this later as I still need to do a review (tentative +1)
<meetingology> +0, I don't have any technical reservations, but just a question if there have been enough main uploads that belong outside the packageset of server (which I think is broken), I"ll have to discuss this later as I still need to do a review (tentative +1) received from micahg
<micahg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: jamespage to become core-dev
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg> jamespage: so core-dev tentative
<micahg> #vote jamespage to be MOTU
<meetingology> Please vote on: jamespage to be MOTU
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<micahg> bdrung: Laney: stgraber ? ara is waiting :)
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<Laney> -1 Sorry, but I would really like to see more social involvement with the MOTU team before giving people upload rights which they technically already have. I'd really like to see you back here in a few weeks though.
<meetingology> -1 Sorry, but I would really like to see more social involvement with the MOTU team before giving people upload rights which they technically already have. I'd really like to see you back here in a few weeks though. received from Laney
<micahg> Laney: would that be a +1 w/out core-dev?
<micahg> bdrung: ?
<bdrung> +0 core-dev gives you indirect motu membership. direct motu membership has a social component. (+1 without core-dev)
<meetingology> +0 core-dev gives you indirect motu membership. direct motu membership has a social component. (+1 without core-dev) received from bdrung
<Laney> erm, probably. I'd need to think about it.
<micahg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: jamespage to be MOTU
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg> ok, we'll take that to the ML
<micahg> we'll decide a chair offline
<micahg> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 26 15:12:42 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-26-14.03.moin.txt
<micahg> my apologies to ara and the Ubuntu Friendly team
<ara> micahg, no worries :)
<ara> Turn for the UF meeting
<ara> hello!
<brendand> hi!
<roadmr> hey! o/ o\
<jedimike> heyhey!
<ara> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 26 15:14:59 2011 UTC.  The chair is ara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ara> Getting started, we only have 45 minutes this time
<ara> #topic AGENDA
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AGENDA
<ara> * I want my 3 stars!!
<ara> * AOB
<ara> #topic I want my 3 stars!!
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: I want my 3 stars!!
<ara> As you guys know (or if not you know now), a system that reports all its core components as working gets a minimum of three stars.
<ara> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Process
<ara> If one or more core components are reported as not working, the system gets the minimum rating (1 star). What happens at this point:
<ara> #link http://91.189.93.109/
<ara> It is clear that some tests that are associated with core components are still failing.
<ara> This meeting is an attempt to coordiante between the people working on the client side and the people working on the server side to know exactly what needs to be done in order for this to work correctly.
<ara> Anyone has an idea where to look?
<roadmr> o/
<ara> ..
<brendand> o/
<ara> roadmr, go ahead
<roadmr> I guess everyone has something to say on this :)
<jedimike> o/
<ara> :)
<roadmr> We should look at submissions from systems we know from experience are mostly working, see which tests are marked as failing, and either improve the tests so they don't fail, or have the calculation script not consider them as fail-worthy
<roadmr> I know for instance a lot of systems fail the cpu_frequency_governors test by a small percentage, but they still work fine
<roadmr> since this test is in the cpu category it is considered core
<roadmr> it's just an example though, I'd still say to review the submissions and make any tweaks necessary is a possible way to go
<roadmr> ..
<ara> thanks roadmr
<ara> brendand, ?
<brendand> hi
<brendand> first of all, roadmr - frequency_governor isn't in the whitelist ;)
<brendand> i'll just clear that up
<brendand> but what i was going to say is, take the example of this Samsung N310 i have
<brendand> i have two bugs:
<brendand> https://bugs.launchpad.net/checkbox/+bug/855382
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 855382 in checkbox "Some wireless cards are not reported as being in the WIRELESS category by udev_resource" [Undecided,New]
<brendand> the wireless on this system works perfectly but because of this bug the tests don't run
<brendand> second, and this is a question as well:
<brendand> https://bugs.launchpad.net/checkbox/+bug/855538
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 855538 in checkbox "camera/detect and camera/still don't run because they depend on xawtv which is not installed by default" [Undecided,New]
<brendand> the question being does that impact the stars (i didn't think camera was a core component)?
<brendand> also that one is easily workaroundable (by installing xawtv)
<brendand> ...
<ara> jedimike, ?
<jedimike> at the moment, in UF I just store if a certain category of test has passed or failed. What I'd like to do is store the names of the tests that caused a category to fail, so we can see what we need to do for specific systems to get the 3 stars and above.
<jedimike> I feel like that's starting to duplicate the results tracker's functionality though, so I'd like cr3 to feedback on that before i do anything
<jedimike> ...
<ara> cr3, around?
<ara> it looks like he's not around
<cr3> ara: I'm there, thinking
<jedimike> cr3: it's not something i'd display on the site, just something i'd record so we can get a breakdown of failures easily based on the definitions of systems that UF has
<cr3> jedimike: I'm not sure about the implications of what you propose, does this need to be solved here?
<ara> in the mean time I have a question about brendan's wireless. If his wifi card is not recognize as wireless, it shouldn't count as core component, shouldn't it?
<ara> it is like it is not there
<jedimike> cr3: it doesn't need to be solved on the UF side if you already know which tests are the troublesome ones, or have an easy way of finding that out
<cr3> jedimike: I meant "here" as in "within the 30 minutes of this meeting". this is the first time I hear about this request, so I'd like to better understand it and having to raise hand to talk is going to make that rather long
<jedimike> cr3: ok, it's an idea i came up with in the last 5 mins, which is why this is the first mention of it :)
<cr3> jedimike: no problem, lets talk about the implementation details after the meeting
<brendand> o/
<cr3> ..
<ara> #action jedimike and cr3 to talk about how to get a list of failing tests
<meetingology> ACTION: jedimike and cr3 to talk about how to get a list of failing tests
<ara> brendand, ?
<brendand> i think it would be better if wireless was a seperate category so we can make the distinction between it not working on a laptop and it not working on a desktop
<brendand> but
<brendand> wouldn't it be the case that *all* tests in a category would need to pass to say the component is working?
<ara> yes, that's the case
<brendand> so as long as we test each of the network interfaces, having them all bundled under NETWORKING would be okay
<brendand> since both the wifi and ethernet would have to work
<ara> brendand, but wifi is not core in a desktop
<brendand> yeah, see it's a tricky one. well as i said in the bug, the only way may be to relax the requires on the wireless test. if a system doesn't have wireless then the user will just have to say that, since there doesn't seem to be a perfectly reliable way to detect it
<brendand> ...
<roadmr> o/
<ara> roadmr, go ahead
<roadmr> as far as I could see, looking at the output of iwconfig is pretty reliable to identify wireless. Just a thought.
<roadmr> ..
<ara> o/
<ara> I think that it is clear that we need a better solution for the atheros wifi, but I am afraid that it is too late for that :(
<ara> do you think a fix is feasible for Oneiric?
<ara> ..
<brendand> o/
<ara> brendand, go ahead
<brendand> roadmr, that's true - i meant using the info in udev_resource. we'd have to write a new resource script. as ara said, feasible in the next couple of days?
<brendand> may be better to relax the requirement and put whatever better fix there is in the PPA version
<brendand> ...
<ara> I was voting for not even relax the requirement ;-)
<ara> atheros will have 1 star
<ara> known issue
<ara> (we will be in Beta, anyway)
<ara> ..
<brendand> fair enough, i don't agree - but your call ;)
<ara> no, let's vote
<ara> #vote defer the problem with the atheros wifi cards to 12.04 LTS
<meetingology> Please vote on: defer the problem with the atheros wifi cards to 12.04 LTS
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<ara> nobody votes?
<roadmr> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from roadmr
<brendand> ara - i don't think the question is well worded
<cr3> ara: I'm still trying to understand how significant the changes really are
<ara> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: defer the problem with the atheros wifi cards to 12.04 LTS
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<brendand> -1
<ara> OK, let's discuss it a bit further before voting
<ara> and brendand, you do the wording ;)
<brendand> ara - sure
<roadmr> o/
<ara> roadmr, go ahead
<cr3> o/
<roadmr> there are many tweaks to be done, I think if we scram to fix this particular one when there are so many to handle is not good
<roadmr> so I'd say working on those tweaks for the P cycle (and maybe making progress available in a checkbox-stable ppa) would be better than rushing to meet O release
<roadmr> ..
<ara> cr3, your turn
<cr3> is there a bug open about atheros wireless cards?
<cr3> ..
<ara> https://bugs.launchpad.net/checkbox/+bug/855382
<cr3> o/
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 855382 in checkbox "Some wireless cards are not reported as being in the WIRELESS category by udev_resource" [Undecided,New]
<ara> cr3, go ahead :)
<jedimike> o/
<cr3> should systems with these cards be reported with one star or, if the card is detected as NETWORKING instead of WIRELESS, could the device be ignored and reported as 3 stars?
<ara> cr3, I thought that it would be 3 stars, as UF thinks that there is no wireless card
<cr3> ..
<ara> jedimike, go
<jedimike> cr3: if there's no wireless card, and no wireless tests run, it would still be possible to get 3 stars, yes
<jedimike> also
<jedimike> I'm wondering what cards this bug affects
<jedimike> because http://91.189.93.109/11.10/ASUSTeK%20Computer%20Inc./U36SD/p:E4:I8g:B4w:BFJp:h:B5G:Cw9:BkT/ reports an atheros wireless card, and one unit has the tests passing for it too
<jedimike> so perhaps it's only a certain model of atheros card?
<jedimike> ...
<cr3> o/
<ara> cr3, go ahead :)
<cr3> after looking at the bug, I personally don't have enough information to determine the scope of the change necessary to make this work. so, if we vote, I'm: 0
<cr3> ..
<brendand> o/
<ara> brendand, go ahead
<brendand> to answer jedimikes question, i have two netbooks though i'm not sure if they have the same card or a different one - and they are both affected by this
<brendand> the exact model is shown in the bug
<brendand> but for the purpose of voting people should assume only one model of atheros card is affected
<brendand> ...
<ara> OK, let's vote, this is taking too much time
<ara> brendand, what should be the wording?
<brendand> ara - now that i'm trying to think of one it's quite difficult!
<ara> shall I give a try?
<brendand> ara - i'll go with your wording now that we all understand the issue better
<ara> #vote Postpone the investigation and fix or workaround for bug 855382 for P
<meetingology> Please vote on: Postpone the investigation and fix or workaround for bug 855382 for P
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 855382 in checkbox "Some wireless cards are not reported as being in the WIRELESS category by udev_resource" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855382
<roadmr> +1 we need more data to decide on this, tweaking for specific systems piecemeal is going to be too much work
<meetingology> +1 we need more data to decide on this, tweaking for specific systems piecemeal is going to be too much work received from roadmr
<jedimike> 0, because i'm not sure if we have enough information to prove the fix or not
<meetingology> 0, because i'm not sure if we have enough information to prove the fix or not received from jedimike
<ara> +1, we don't even know if this issue is causing those systems to have one star
<meetingology> +1, we don't even know if this issue is causing those systems to have one star received from ara
<cr3> 0
<meetingology> 0 received from cr3
<brendand> 0
<meetingology> 0 received from brendand
<ara> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Postpone the investigation and fix or workaround for bug 855382 for P
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Motion carried
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 855382 in checkbox "Some wireless cards are not reported as being in the WIRELESS category by udev_resource" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855382
<ara> OK,  moved to P
<ara> o/
<ara> Before we end the meeting I would like to know if it would be easy to cr3 to get a list of tests in the RT that are failing, and jedimike a list of core categories that are failing
<ara> so we can concentrate if fixing those
<ara> ..
<jedimike> o/
<ara> jedimike, go ahead
<cr3> o/
<jedimike> it would be relatively easy for me to record the failing tests against the failing categories in UF, and that's what our action is about discussing
<jedimike> ...
<ara> cr3, ?
<cr3> ara: could what jedimike is proposing meet both requirements, ie absolving me of that action item? :)
<cr3> ..
<ara> cr3, jedimike: I would prefer if you guys could talk about it, so we make sure that we are not putting stuff in UF that should be in LR
<ara> but we need it, urgently :)
<ara> OK, anything else on this topic?
<cr3> ara: ok, feel free to add another action item for both of us to coordinate
<ara> it was about that :)
<ara> moving on to the next topic?
<ara> #topic Any Other Business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any Other Business?
<roadmr> o/
<ara> roadmr, go ahead
<roadmr> Just a last call for testing, if you get a minute to add the checkbox ppa to your oneiric system and run it, to make sure we don't have any nasty showstoppers at this point. Thanks!
<roadmr> ..
<ara> thanks roadmr :)
<ara> Anything else?
<ara> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 26 16:03:09 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-26-15.14.moin.txt
<ara> thanks brendand, roadmr, jedimike and cr3 for participating!
<roadmr> awesome, thanks!
<jedimike> :)
<brendand> bye!
<roadmr> ready for the 'freeze?
<mdeslaur> hello
<jdstrand> hi
<dlm_> hi
<tyhicks> hello
<jjohansen> \o
<jdstrand> so, let's get started
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 26 17:01:51 2011 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Ubuntu 11.10 is scheduled to release in a few weeks. If you are interested, it would be great if people helped make sure that the [[https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-cve-tracker|Ubuntu CVE Tracker]] is up to date for the devel release (particularly for universe/multiverse packages.
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> jdstrand to update highlighted packages to also mention UCT in general: this was completed, but not in HighlightedPackages, because it is included by GettingInvolved, and that didn't quite make sense
<jdstrand> I updated the wiki docs to mention it and made it part of our release cycle checklist
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'm on community this week
<jdstrand> I've got some more MIRs to audit, some pending updates, a couple work items and some last minute oneiric bugs
<jdstrand> I hope to actually squeeze apparmor testing in this week as well
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I've just rebuilt my tomcat6 packages because of a new CVE that popped up this morning
<mdeslaur> so I'll be testing those this week
<mdeslaur> also, there are some CVEs mismatches in oneiric still, so I'll be working on those
<mdeslaur> this week, we need to brainstorm our UDS blueprints
<mdeslaur> so we can start creating them at the end of the week
<mdeslaur> and that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm still working on php (*sigh*), apache and openssl
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: need any help/moral support?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: ah, yes, meant to add UDS prep to my list as well
<sbeattie> I'm also hoping to do some qart testing this week, to ensure that things are in a good shape for oneiric
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: send booze.
 * kees hugs sbeattie
<sbeattie> And I guess UDS prep as well.
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: heh
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me. micahg, you're up.
<micahg> tomorrow's Mozilla release day, so Firefox/Thunderbird to go out
<micahg> I still have chromium that needs to go out
<micahg> NSS should be updated for oneiric final, I'm going to try to get that done as well
<micahg> UDS/blueprint/qrt next week for me
<micahg> oh, and it's a short week for me, off Thu/Fri
<micahg> tyhicks: your turn
<tyhicks> I've got the triage role this week.
<tyhicks> I will finish up mutt testing (some other items preempted me last week), finish backporting and testing a few eCryptfs patches for a libreoffice-on-ecryptfs bug, and take a closer look at an upstream eCryptfs oops report.
<tyhicks> jdstrand: that's it for me
<jdstrand> cool
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Securi
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tangerine.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cakephp.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xymon.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libglpng.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libcgroup.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> thanks everyone!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 26 17:16:59 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-26-17.01.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> hanks jdstrand!
<mdeslaur> euh, thanks
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<akgraner> ok it's time for the Ubuntu Leadership team meeting
<akgraner> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 26 18:00:33 2011 UTC.  The chair is akgraner. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<akgraner> here's the agenda for the meeting - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLeadership/Meetings
<akgraner> [link] - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLeadership/Meetings
<akgraner> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLeadership/Meetings
<AlanBell> it got it, just doesn't echo it back to you :)
<akgraner> ok clearly I need a lesson on how to use this new bot
<valorie> o/
<akgraner> thanks AlanBell I didn't realize that
<akgraner> :-)
<akgraner> ok I'll give it just another minute then we'll get started
<AlanBell> it is a bit inconsistent at the moment, but it should be less echoey in principal
<cjohnston> o/
<Joeb454> o/
 * charlie-tca waves
<Cheesehead> o/
<AlanBell> the other one is like Sigourney Weaver in Galaxy Quest
<akgraner> #topic - Welcome
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: - Welcome
<AlanBell> o/
<topyli> aww
<topyli> o/
 * pleia2 waves
<IdleOne> o/
<akgraner> Since this is the first of our meetings I wanted to take a moment and welcome everyone and say thank you to those who have already joined the team
<akgraner> and are working toward the goals of better leadership resources and skills
<akgraner> The main wiki landing page that gives a little more description about the team can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLeadership
<valorie> I'd like to thank Amber and David for getting us up and running
<valorie> and everybody who has already contributed!
<valorie> every day there is new cool stuff!
<akgraner> Thanks valorie! and thanks to head_victim for working on the wiki pages over the weekend
<topyli> indeed, the infrastructure is pretty much there
<akgraner> #topic Ubuntu Leadership document -
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Leadership document -
<akgraner> valorie, this is your item  - ready to discuss it?
<valorie> your item and my item are pretty much the same
<akgraner> oh and if you have comments on a topic please use o/ and wait to be recognized
<valorie> I would like to know what plans/thoughts are about the docs
<akgraner> ahh ok
<akgraner> then let me go through what we've got and go from there then
<valorie> I see that we are planning to get the manual into version control
<valorie> cool
<akgraner> sound ok?
<valorie> yep
<topyli> o/
<akgraner> right now we have a couple active documents we are working on  - LoCo Leadership handbook, Leadership skills list and the welcome letter
<akgraner> topyli, go ahead
<topyli> about the handbook. it sounds like it could easily become an actual book on leadership and not very ubuntu specific. i see this as a danger, how can we handle producing it?
<akgraner> great question
<akgraner> Leadership is universal
<akgraner> no matter what the project - but we can add items that tailor it to the specific needs of the Ubuntu Community
<akgraner> in the case of the LoCo leadership handbook the target audience is LoCo leadership
<akgraner> I am not sure I see a danger in a general book on leadership skills and styles as there will always be some overlap needed
<topyli> sure, but there already are books like that
<akgraner> yes but not tailored to Ubuntu community
<valorie> so this is seen as about Loco leadership, and not about all the leadership roles in the ubuntu community?
<akgraner> which is what we are wanting to do
<topyli> maybe we should steal jono's disposition and tailor it
<akgraner> we can take elements from Art of community - but the goal is to give leaders the skills they don't have
<akgraner> and teach the leadership styles and how it fits with an all volunteer community
<akgraner> we had to start somewhere  - so we started with LoCo teams b/c over the past few years I have had several people ask me about leading loco teams
<akgraner> valorie, no it will be for all leadership positions - but again we just picked a place to start
<akgraner> this will not be a requirement but a set or resources for the community
<charlie-tca> LoCo Handbook would seem like it should be very loco oriented. That doesn't mean limiting this group to loco's, though.
<akgraner> charlie-tca, right
<akgraner> people can take and tailor it to any group
<akgraner> we aren't here to force people to use these skills but to lead by example and be here to help and provide training etc when people ask for it
<akgraner> back to valorie's point
<jussi> Is it planned then to actually be part of the process that that happens? or just a lets do this and hope others pick it up and taylor it?
<akgraner> yes we want to get it into bzr by module/chapter for proper version control
<topyli> i can imagine it being versioned for forums/irc/technical...
<akgraner> jussi, the hope is that we get this first resource written and promoted
<akgraner> them encourage and help tailor it to other projects and teams
<akgraner> topyli, exactly
<akgraner> here are the links to the documents in case someone doesn't have them already - Leadership Handbook - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_5CJYkBSaoN4l7L8mIPKoZNxzPrr16NOZP12Ln_8EXg/edit?hl=en_US
<akgraner> skills list - https://docs.google.com/document/d/13VOmTgEqCzIW8oITV2d5fIRD3xsiKRVMd39OUlpx6xQ/edit?hl=en_US
<valorie> cool
<akgraner> welcome letter - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1da8Moj340VcvzIQuX8XUm3OXDZpb9l6bfxz8vkvIZM4/edit?hl=en_US
<akgraner> any other questions or comments about the documents we've started so far?
<akgraner> Also I plan on blogging weekly about various leadership skills and styles each Monday
<akgraner> so if you want more information on something let me know and I'll add it to the list
<akgraner> and the wiki page will contain links to all blog posts about or from the leadership team stuff
<akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLeadership/Links
<valorie> that is very useful
<akgraner> Anyone opposed to sending the welcome letter to members who join the mailing list?
<akgraner> I can set it up to send it automatically when someone joins
<akgraner> Just means we'll have to be careful to make sure it's always up to date :-)
<valorie> sounds great!
<topyli> go ahead, it's a good idea
<charlie-tca> +1
<akgraner> #action akgraner to add automatic welcome letter to those joining the mailing list
<meetingology> ACTION: akgraner to add automatic welcome letter to those joining the mailing list
<akgraner> ok any other comments about documentation before I move on?
<akgraner> #needs
<akgraner> #topic needs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: needs
<akgraner> Logo
<akgraner> Getting the documentation into BZR by module
<akgraner> Recruiting more members
<akgraner> these are just a few of the needs I listed - I am sure there are more but for this meeting I didn't want to go over an hour
<akgraner> can someone work on getting a logo designed?
<akgraner> that meets the branding guidelines
<akgraner> anyone?
<topyli> i could talk to knome, he's good but i don't know if he's interested
<akgraner> cool - could someone contact the Canonical design team and see if someone there would be interested in helping
<akgraner> I know they are busy right now - but at least we can get it on their radar
<akgraner> Basically let's all explore the contacts we have with various design people and see what we can come back with
<akgraner> how does that sound?
<akgraner> Let's see what we can do between now and UDS
<jussi> ++ knome being good.
<valorie> +1
<charlie-tca> +1
<akgraner> #action topyli to talk to knome - other team members to talk to other sources as well and see what we come up with
<meetingology> ACTION: topyli to talk to knome - other team members to talk to other sources as well and see what we come up with
<akgraner> topyli, is that ok with you?
<topyli> sounds good to me
<akgraner> thank you!
<akgraner> next  - we need someone who can add the chapters into BZR
<akgraner> I'm not a documentation person, but I am willing to learn
<akgraner> if someone can take the lead on this that would be great
<akgraner> Any documentation guru's in the group
<valorie> DarkwingDuck is a natural
<akgraner> I know DarkwingDuck said he would help with this as well - I know he's been a little busy
<valorie> he just pushed the kubuntu docs for 11.10
<akgraner> but can some folks contact him and give him a hand
<valorie> I will gladly do so
<akgraner> #action DarkwingDuck to get documentation into BZR
<meetingology> ACTION: DarkwingDuck to get documentation into BZR
<akgraner> I just volun-told him :-)
<valorie> I'm on the Kub. docs team
<charlie-tca> I guess I will have to learn BZR yet, then.
<valorie> the beginner bits weren't hard
<akgraner> valorie, awesome - can you talk to DarkwingDuck and you all come up with plan
<valorie> will do
<akgraner> thanks
<valorie> I think the big bit is the docbook-ification
<akgraner> #action valorie collaborate with DarkwingDuck on documentation efforts
<meetingology> ACTION: valorie collaborate with DarkwingDuck on documentation efforts
<valorie> we might need some group help with that
<charlie-tca> Maybe mallard would help with it?
<akgraner> I'm getting a class at UDS on how to do this
<valorie> mallard and DarkwingDuck sound like a match made in Heaven!
<valorie> :-)
<akgraner> haha
<akgraner> ok recruitment
<charlie-tca> akgraner: subscribe me to it?
<akgraner> charlie-tca, ok will do  (the class you mean)
<charlie-tca> right, the class
<akgraner> will do
<akgraner> we've had a lot of people show interest in this group - we need to make sure everyone knows this is a place for resources and training and learning about leadership
<akgraner> it's nothing that leaders will be forced to go through
<akgraner> but we want to know what people need from this group.
<akgraner> I'll email all the leadership councils and boards and loco-contacts but if you all could forward that email once I send it to the list that would be great
<akgraner> any thoughts on what else we can do at this moment to gain more interest in the group?
<akgraner> there will be  many things we can do once we are more organized and have more resources in place
<akgraner> but for now - any suggestions?
<Cheesehead> o/
<akgraner> Cheesehead, go ahead
<Cheesehead> I'm interested in providing...
<Cheesehead> small-group sessions on IRC of specific skills.
<Cheesehead> So if anyone looks at that skill list...
<Cheesehead> and sees something they want to learn or teach , please let me know
<akgraner> +1 one for that - we would like to have a series of leadership based classes
<Cheesehead> ..
<topyli> oh yes, small sessions on specific topics
<akgraner> #action Cheesehead to manage online leadership tutorial sessions
<meetingology> ACTION: Cheesehead to manage online leadership tutorial sessions
<Cheesehead> rgr
<akgraner> Cheesehead, that sound good to you - you can clear the dates with the classroom team and start rolling them out
<akgraner> I am sure there are many people on the team already who are ready to go forth and share various skills
<valorie> I hope that we'll be advertising to *all* leaders in the community
<valorie> not just loco leaders
<akgraner> so if you are interested in teaching leadership skills online talk to Cheesehead
<akgraner> valorie, we are
<valorie> because really, aren't we interested in growing the group as well as providing a good skillset?
<topyli> especially aspiring ones, i would assume
<valorie> cool
<akgraner> all councils, boards, and team contacts are getting emails
<valorie> \o/
<akgraner> valorie, yes - much like UW is a springboard to the community  - this is a springboard to leaderhip mentoring and better leaders
<akgraner> make sense
<topyli> akgraner's blog (and hopefully all our blogs!) works to getting new blood inspired i hope
<akgraner> we want current, new and aspiring leaders to all be part of this team and learn from each other
<akgraner> topyli, yes exactly
<akgraner> just make sure when you blog about leadership and the team you add the link to the wiki page
<akgraner> :-)
<valorie> akgraner: that's a great crystalization of the team mission, right there
<akgraner> yep :-)
<topyli> yeah put it at the top of the wiki page :)
<akgraner> #topic acknowledgements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: acknowledgements
<akgraner> Again thank you to everyone who has helped so far in everything that you have been doing!
<akgraner> Great work!
<akgraner> #topic next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: next meeting
<akgraner> do we want to have monthly meetings or bi-monthly meetings?
<topyli> thanks all
<Cheesehead> Monthly
<akgraner> +1 for monthly from me
<valorie> +1 here
<topyli> +1, we change if it doesn't feel right
<akgraner> I'll check the calendar and see what is going on the last week of October
<akgraner> people will be getting ready for UDS but...
<topyli> oh dear, it's last week of the month again. where did my time go?
<akgraner> Oct 24th at 1800 UTC is open
<akgraner> so let's set it for 24 Oct 1800 UTC and see how it works out...
<akgraner> any volunteers to chair the next meeting
<valorie> o/
<akgraner> valorie, are you voluteering or do you have a comment
<valorie> I've never done it, but can pick AlanBell's brain
<valorie> volunteering
<akgraner> valorie, it's easy  :-)
 * AlanBell reads back
<AlanBell> oh yeah, help yourself to my brain
<valorie> I'm not going to UDS, so it's perfect
<akgraner> #action valorie to chair next leadership meeting on 24 OCT 2011 @1800 UTC in -meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: valorie to chair next leadership meeting on 24 OCT 2011 @1800 UTC in -meeting
<akgraner> anything else before I end the meeting?
<topyli> how did you think about distributing the minutes?
<topyli> it could be advertising too if you distribute them widely
<akgraner> mailing list, wiki page
<akgraner> as well as social media :-) and blogs
<topyli> ok good enough :)
<akgraner> Thanks everyone!
<akgraner> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 26 18:55:43 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-26-18.00.moin.txt
<valorie> thank you akgraner -- good meeting!
<charlie-tca> akgraner: thank you for chairing
<Cheesehead> akgraner: Good meeting. Thanks.
<akgraner> thanks! :-)
 * akgraner blushes and heads back to -leadership
<AlanBell> valorie: grab me any time with questions or to try a practice meeting with the bot
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology <- reasonable documentation
<valorie> AlanBell: I'll make a doc with stuff I can copy/paste for the meeting, and get your feedback on it, if you are willing
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-27
<amithkk> So, this is the place where it happens.
<IdleOne> no, this is where they talk about how to make it happen
<IdleOne> it happens in other places.
<valorie> unless you skip the meeting, in which case you are the one *appointed* to make it happen
<valorie> :-)
<head_victim> amithkk: yep, the Membership meeting is in about 90 minutes
<IdleOne> valorie: this is why I make sure to attend all meetings so I can make sure nothing gets "appointed" to me :P
<valorie> :-)
<amithkk> head_victim: so, my meeting starts at 3:30PM. Really looking forward
<head_victim> amithkk: good to see, sometimes applicants forget to show up :)
<amithkk> head_victim: they do that?
<amithkk> INKT
<czajkowski> was there a A/O meeting ?
<elky> in half an hour I believe
<head_victim> Yep
<czajkowski> just checking so it starts on time :)
<ManjotSingh> hi
<amithkk> head_victim: hey, isnt there a membership meeting
<ManjotSingh> May I  know what is going on here?
<head_victim> amithkk: yep, it's due in 30 mins so the other members can arrive
<amithkk> meeting
<amithkk> (that was for ManjotSingh)
<amithkk> 10 mins left
<Destine> waiting for the meeting now.
<head_victim> Anyone else here from the Asia/Oceania Membership Board?
<head_victim> Gday Destine
<Destine> head_victim, hey.
<amithkk> waiting...
<amithkk> hello Destine
<Destine> amithkk, hi. I am reading your wiki page.
<elky> o/
<head_victim> persia, lifeless & freeflying, you around?
<elky> ejat?
<amithkk> is there some quorom or something
<head_victim> elky:  he sent an email to the list a few minutes ago saying family issues just arose
<elky> amithkk, yes
<head_victim> amithkk: yep, need one more at the moment from my reckoning.
<amithkk> is there any alloted "time" for a meeting?
<head_victim> Yep, it was meant to start about 2 minutes ago, so it might just be that they're straggling
<amithkk> i mean, like is there a time limit (say 1 hour
<elky> yes, 1 hour.
<Destine> I think we need at least one more member.
 * ejat here .. 
<amithkk> so, all members arr part of the "Board"
<head_victim> Welcome back ejat
<amithkk> \o ejat
<Destine> that's great.
<head_victim> amithkk: no the board members are listed here - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-membership-board-asia-oceania/+members
<ejat> head_victim: i manage to postpone a bit to attend the meeting then might go after finish with the meeting
<head_victim> ejat: nice work
<head_victim> Anyone want a go at chairing?
<ejat> shall we start ?
<amithkk> yes
<amithkk> (If im supposed to answer)
<elky> head_victim, i'm really laggy tonight, sorry
<head_victim> I don't mind doing it, Destine or ejat did you want a turn or happy to let me chair?
<Destine> head_victim, please.
<head_victim> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 27 10:09:44 2011 UTC.  The chair is head_victim. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ejat> :)
<head_victim> So we have quorum, nice work
<amithkk> Great!
<head_victim> Has everyone had a chance to look over the application listed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania ?
<elky> head_victim, yep
<Destine> head_victim, yes.
<Destine> head_victim, and already prepared questions.
<head_victim> #topic Amith KK's Ubuntu Membership Application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Amith KK's Ubuntu Membership Application
<head_victim> amithkk: can you please introduce yourself to us a little bit thanks.
<amithkk> Yes,
<amithkk> But im not sure how to "introduce" :)
<head_victim> Just a line or two of who you are, where you're from and how you contribute to the community
<amithkk> My name is Amith, from Bangalore,India. I'm a ubuntu user and supporter. I contribute to the community by answering and Asking questions on AskUbuntu, I also make posts on 2buntu as "Amith"
<ejat> amithkk: ?
<head_victim> Ok, Destine if you have prepared questions did you want to lead off?
<ejat> a part of AskUbuntu .. what else u do ?
<Destine> amithkk, do you mind to tell us something about 2buntu?
<amithkk> Yes,
<amithkk> 2buntu is a community freestyle blog , make by Roland Taylor. I't covers all topics ubuntu and also debunks myths
<amithkk> I spread the word of ubuntu near my locality, and install updates and maintain my friend's installs
<amithkk> ok..?
<Destine> amithkk, i see. in what way do you think 2buntu helps users or potential users?
<amithkk> it helps to show users the way to customize their ubuntu as well as encouraging possible users. We also write why windows is not the only choice
<Destine> amithkk, thx.
<head_victim> amithkk: Are you involved with any other Ubuntu projects?
<amithkk> currently, no
<head_victim> Ah ok, have you tried contact with your LoCo at all?
<ejat> amithkk: are u invovle with local ubuntu group / event ?
<amithkk> no, not yet
<ejat> s/invovle/involve
<amithkk> I just recently found out about LoCo
<elky> amithkk, can you show us a collection of your posts on ubun2? I've only found 1 with the search.
<elky> 2buntu, sorry.
<amithkk> few of them were deleted due to a server crash
<amithkk> I have also added the common myths page
<amithkk> http://www.2buntu.com/myths/ubuntu-myths-busted/]
<amithkk> we are working on a combined article on the Secure boot and its prevention
<ejat> guys .. any other Q ?
<elky> ejat, nope, i'm ready to vote.
<Destine> ejat, no.
<head_victim> Ok when I call the vote, only board members vote please
<head_victim> #vote Amith KK's Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Amith KK's Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<IdleOne> may i ask a question?
<head_victim> IdleOne: sure
<IdleOne> amithkk: I was wondering what plans or goals you might have to further help the ubuntu community?
<IdleOne> aside from what you already do I mean :)
<amithkk> I want to complete the Neo OS , which is basically a Ubuntu Remaster with multiple DE's working
<IdleOne> ok, thank you.
<head_victim> -1 I'd like to see more sustained activity and some more involvement. Things like testimonials from others would help as evidence as well.
<meetingology> -1 I'd like to see more sustained activity and some more involvement. Things like testimonials from others would help as evidence as well. received from head_victim
<Destine> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Destine
<ejat> -1 i like to see more contribution a part what he has done now ..
<meetingology> -1 i like to see more contribution a part what he has done now .. received from ejat
<elky> -1 Nice start, but more time and significant activities would be good.
<meetingology> -1 Nice start, but more time and significant activities would be good. received from elky
<elky> Sorry :(
<amithkk> :) no probs
<head_victim> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Amith KK's Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:4 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion denied
<IdleOne> amithkk: get involved with your LoCo :)
<ejat> amithkk: plz do takes this as advise ..
<amithkk> ok ejat IdleOne
<Destine> amithkk, you really should try to do more.
<ejat> good to have u ... and nice start as mention by elky ..
<elky> You seem to have an ok grasp on english, so maybe translations would be fun for you :)
<amithkk> and i know hindi too
<amithkk> and kannada
<amithkk> :D
<ejat> amithkk: maybe u can do mo advocating / awareness in your school @ neighbourhood :)
<IdleOne> amithkk: a good thing would be more detail about your contributions on your wiki.
<elky> I know I love to see lots of translations on applications.
<Destine> amithkk, and as IdleOne said, get along with LoCo.
<amithkk> ejat:  I did
<ejat> yeah .. do some translation might be a good too
<elky> amithkk, point directly to articles. Even if you have to use the archive.org waybackmachine
<amithkk> we had a robots.txt :d
<elky> google has some of your stuff cached too i suspect. search for "amith site:2buntu.com"
<ejat> amithkk: do updates your wiki then u retry to apply for membership ... no need to rush ... take time ... we always welcome u here :)
<IdleOne> amithkk: Please take what we are saying as advice and not as complaints. The work you have done so far is good, keep it up but more Ubuntu specific/LoCo work would be awesome.
<elky> robots.txt should still let search engines in, or the site will not get much love
<amithkk> IdleOne: Ok no worries
<amithkk> Anyways to tell the truth, I didn't think id get it
<Destine> amithkk, keep up your good work and come back later. I wish I will still be on board when you return.
<amithkk> I was just involved for 2 years
<ejat> Destine: :)
<amithkk> Destine: \o/
<ejat> :)
<Destine> ejat, elky has been a member since i was the interviewee.
<amithkk> WOW
 * ejat think i need to go ... any other issue wanna tor raise ? 
<ejat> Destine: me too ...
<Destine> elky, you indeed are an experienced member.
<head_victim> #topic follow up last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: follow up last meeting
<ejat> luckily have time to meet her personally :)
<elky> Destine, I remember that :)
<head_victim> Just so it can be logged, I did email all the previous applicants before removing them from the wiki. So hopefully they will reapply again shortly.
<ejat> head_victim: i think u manage to clean up the wiki pages ... nice job n thanks a lot
<head_victim> Can anyone volunteer to write the report for this meeting and email the ML of the result?
<amithkk> Umm.. Can i be logged in in the channel
<head_victim> ejat: was a pleasure, wiki's are my thing
<head_victim> amithkk: what do you mean logged in?
 * ejat really need to go ... im really sorry guys ..... to amithkk .. good luck in the futures ... thanks Destine , head_victim , n elky .. i really need to go ... 
<head_victim> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 27 10:35:10 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-27-10.09.moin.txt
<amithkk> meaning... can i stay here
<elky> ejat, thanks for being here :)
<head_victim> I'll let ejat go, if someone doesn't get to do the write up I will make some time tomorrow night to do it
<ejat> elky: welcome ..
<IdleOne> A/O members, hope I did not step on any toes with my question and comments :)
<Destine> amithkk, if you wish.
<head_victim> amithkk: you're welcome here as long as you like, a lot of different teams have meetings here, you might find one you'd like to assist with
<ejat> IdleOne: i dont think so ..
<Destine> ejat, bye~
<head_victim> IdleOne: I wasn't sure if you meant you had questions for the applicant or just in general, but it worked out either way int he end.
<amithkk> Wait... i can ask questions in other meetings?
<amithkk> cool
<head_victim> amithkk: some meetings are more strict on timeframes that others
<head_victim> So just be mindful that if they have a lot to get through interruptions mightn't be helpful.
<IdleOne> amithkk: yes. I like to ask permission first to make sure it is ok.
<Destine> amithkk, of course, as long as it won't interrupt.
<Destine> so, i am leaving for dinner then. Good bye head_victim elky.
<elky> enjoy your dinner Destine, bye :)
<head_victim> Destine: thanks for coming in, enjoy yourself
<amithkk> Wow
<amithkk> The mobile team meething
<amithkk> head_victim: you might wanna edit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<head_victim> amithkk: yep, in the coming day or two your line will disappear and the next meeting time/date will be updated
<amithkk> next 2buntu member for ubuntu membership will be jrgifford form the Americas board
<Daviey> o/
<lynxman> hey Daviey o/
<Daviey> smoser: hello!
<Daviey> Are you chairing?
<smoser> o/
<zul> hi
<smb>  /o\
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<jamespage> o/
<Daviey> smoser: lets go
<smoser> i did last week
<smoser> remember? record length meeting ?
<Daviey> smoser: But you forgot to update the agenda?
<smoser> i'd like to to see SpamapS *try* to beat that.
<Daviey> In which case, utlemming are you the cook today?
<smoser> reload
<Daviey> utlemming: are you here?
<Ursinha> o/
<utlemming> yup I am
<Daviey> utlemming: are you happy to chair?
<Daviey> Ursinha / rbasak: we need to add you to the chair cycle.
<utlemming> Daviey: yes sir, just pulling up the agenda now
<Ursinha> Daviey, go for it
<Daviey> It's sparse.
<smoser> [ACTION] hggdh and SpamapS to discuss SRU verification work for bug 750371 at next meeting or before
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 750371 in squid (Ubuntu Maverick) "squid causing /var to stay busy during shutdown" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/750371
<smoser> thats the only action from last meeting
<utlemming> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 27 16:06:09 2011 UTC.  The chair is utlemming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<utlemming>  [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<AlanBell> hmm
<AlanBell> utlemming: I think the space before [topic] might be the issue there
<utlemming> yeah....
<utlemming> #meetingtopic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Review ACTION points from previous meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<Daviey> Spamaps couldn't be here. hggdh should hopefully be here later, lets carry it to later in the meeting
<utlemming> lol...
<utlemming> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Review ACTION points from previous meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<utlemming> #subtopic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<utlemming> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Review ACTION points from previous meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
 * hggdh gets in meeting now
<utlemming> okay, so from the previous meeting, it doesn't look like there is any follow up
<utlemming> does anyone have anything from it?
<Daviey> hggdh: ah, can you comment?
<hggdh> I have not seen it yet -- was pretty much out for the beginning of last week, and then we have beta 2
<Daviey> utlemming: perhaps hggdh is having net troubles, lets come back.
<smoser> reload the page, utlemming
<smoser> there was a action item there (that i updated like 32 seconds ago)
<utlemming> ah, thank you kindly smoser
<hggdh> I will look at it this afternoon -- seems to be not difficult to set up
<utlemming> the prior action was hggdh and SpamapS to discuss SRU verification work for bug 750371 at next meeting or before
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 750371 in squid (Ubuntu Maverick) "squid causing /var to stay busy during shutdown" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/750371
<Daviey> utlemming should have known that.
<Daviey> hggdh: okay, can you sync up with Clint soon?
<hggdh> Daviey: yes, will do
<Daviey> super!
<Daviey> utlemming: next?
<utlemming> #action hggdh and SpamapS to discuss SRU verification work for bug 750371 at next meeting or before
<meetingology> ACTION: hggdh and SpamapS to discuss SRU verification work for bug 750371 at next meeting or before
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 750371 in squid (Ubuntu Maverick) "squid causing /var to stay busy during shutdown" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/750371
<utlemming> #topic Oneiric Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Review ACTION points from previous meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Oneiric Development
<utlemming> Daviey: how is Oneiric moving along?
<Daviey> Dandy!
<Daviey> We don't have that many knowns still to deal with
<Daviey> I would like to run through them
<Daviey> bug 655533, needs someone to work on it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 655533 in likewise-open (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[master] package likewise-open 5.4.0.42111-2ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655533
<Daviey> install likewise-open on natty, and do an upgrade test to oneiric
<Daviey> any volunteers?
<utlemming> I took an initial look at it, but was unable to replicate it.
<Daviey> nobody?
<jamespage> Daviey: lemme take a look at it
<Daviey> Okay, i'll take that to..
<Daviey> ok, great jamespage to the rescue!
<utlemming> #action jamespage to look at bug 655533
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to look at bug 655533
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 655533 in likewise-open (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[master] package likewise-open 5.4.0.42111-2ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655533
<Daviey> bug 801494, is blocked on the udev bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 801494 in Ubuntu "Multi part LVM layout: system fails to boot due to missing volumes" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801494
<Daviey> we think it might be the same issue
<Daviey> We could try adam_g's or hallyn's hack fix.. to prove it
<hallyn> mine is not for the more general udev bug, only for vgchange hangs during boot
<Daviey> ah
<hallyn> i've not been able to deduce a cause for the udev hang
<hallyn> that one has no lvm portion to it
<smoser> i've reproduce bug 833783 with an additional 'udevadm settle'.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833783 in udev (Ubuntu Oneiric) "boot failure: can't open /root/dev/console: no such file" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833783
<hallyn> and it's heisenbug from hell
<Daviey> jamespage: would you be able to sync with adam to try to reproduce it with a sleep()?
<smoser> basically, we *know* that the fix suggested only reduces the window for error.
<jamespage> Daviey: yep
<hallyn> right i'm not happy with papering over
<smoser> adam_g, verified that 'udevadm --exit' drops events.
<Daviey> smoser: Yep, but if we can prove it's the same issue - we are happy.
<hallyn> can we get some jhunt help this week?
<Daviey> hallyn: he is looking at it today
<hallyn> awesome!
<jamespage> \o/
<Daviey> I have raised it as a prioritty issue.
<smoser> Daviey, just to clarify, you're suggesting that adding 'sleep X' in a race condition would "prove" something :)
<Daviey> smoser: I'm suggesting that it proves it to be the same bug.
<smoser> i dont think so.
<Daviey> smoser: Do you disagree that is the best action?
<smoser> i dont knwo what it would buy us
<smoser> seriously.
<smoser> it would mean that we know that timing changes things
<smoser> which we know
<rbasak> and as we speak I just hit it again :-/
<jamespage> OK - I have a system I can reproduce that but 100% of the time on - lemme catchup with adam_g and jhunt to see what the best way forwards is
<smoser> i'm not *just* being a jerk.
<smoser> i'm serious
<Daviey> smoser: Okay.. i disagree.. if we can work around it in a development enviroment, to prove it is the same issue, we can mark it as a dupe.
<Daviey> Then we can move on, and verify once jhunt has done his magic.
<Daviey> smoser: Rather than saying we are doing it wrong, suggestions for an action are more constructive.
<Daviey> It seems cheap to reproduce it with the sleep hack.
<hallyn> Daviey: it's not smoser's fault there isn't a better answer for now :)
<smoser> i'm suggesting you save time.
<hallyn> Daviey: I think for now we keep them non-duped, and hope that the fix for one fixes the other
<Daviey> smoser: seriosuly, how long does it take to test the sleep?
<smoser> and not spend time trying to get more information that would lead you to the same amount of un-knowledge.
<smoser> but, sure, try 'sleep 3'.
<hallyn> Daviey: I'm more worried about erroneously marking something as a dup.  that usually turns out bad
<smoser> cause 3 is a magic number.
<hallyn> i.e., there might be a fix for bug 1, but someone testing for bug 2 says "that's not a good fix"
<Ursinha> hallyn, +1
<Daviey> we've probably wasted more time arguing the toss about this, than we would have JFDI'ing it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 2 could not be found
<smoser> i'll stop now.
<hallyn> Daviey: it's not about waste of time testing.  I think you should not mark it a dup based on that test.
<hallyn> putting in a comment with the result, though, is helpful.
<Daviey> hallyn: Which is why i suggested we check it when the udev fix lands, but at least i can mentally consider it a dupe - and start worrying less about it.
<hallyn> Daviey: sounds good :)
<utlemming> let's table the current discussion and move on
<Daviey> moving on..
<utlemming> #action Daviey, smoser, hallyn to follow up on bug 801494
<meetingology> ACTION: Daviey, smoser, hallyn to follow up on bug 801494
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 801494 in Ubuntu "Multi part LVM layout: system fails to boot due to missing volumes" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801494
<Daviey> bug 827496, ikonia has offered to try and resolve
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 827496 in cobbler (Ubuntu) "cobbler kickstart metadata dont affect ubuntu preseed " [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827496
<Daviey> and i believe bug 831121.. He might want a hand, so listen out to cries for help.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831121 in dovecot-antispam (Ubuntu Oneiric) "dovecot-antispam version 1.4~rc3-1 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831121
<Daviey> bug 832507, rbasak - have you been able to prepare a trunk patch?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832507 in nova (Ubuntu) "console.log grows indefinitely" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832507
<rbasak> Yes, I have one that I think works
<rbasak> jdstrand has the libvirt fix ready now. I still need to see the whole system working for myself and test the edge cases
<Daviey> rbasak: Are you likely going to be able to push a merge proposal to upstream trunk by EoD?
<rbasak> No, the patch isn't ready for upstream
<smoser> rbasak, can you point us at your current branch ?
<Daviey> smoser: he's created a PPA based on the staged upload
<Daviey> which we should be able to test in the lab.
<Daviey> (with libvirt disabled, or jdstrands patch)
<rbasak> I found a bug in the PPA, I made an error during one of my many rebases
<smoser> branch ?
<rbasak> The latest branch I have is git, against nova's git upstream. I can push that to github if you'd like to see it?
<smoser> yeah, please. i'm just curious.
<hallyn> fwiw I'm still trying to figure out bug 842845 - something's funky in the nova->libvirt bindings i think.  the container is running, nova doesn't know about it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 842845 in libvirt (Ubuntu Oneiric) "problems starting multiple lxc instances concurrently" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842845
<Daviey> hallyn: that was the next bug on my hit list
<Daviey> :)
<Daviey> hallyn: Is it still viable for a fix in Oneiric release?
<hallyn> Daviey: I think so.  It seems like it should be a simple misunderstanding somewhere
<hallyn> but i need time to figure out how nova is getting and interpreting log data from the container startup
<Daviey> hallyn: Great.. do keep the bug updated with status. :)
<hallyn> when i get some i will :)
<Daviey> hallyn: If you want some help, do shout.
<Daviey> moving on..
<hallyn> thx
<Daviey> bug 827590 smoser, is that fix committed to the staged branch?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 827590 in nova (Ubuntu Oneiric) "cloud-init does not mount ephemeral0 on /mnt in nova" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827590
<smoser> i'm fairly sure that is fix-released
<Daviey> updted
<Daviey> smoser: if this is not the case, can you re-open?
<rbasak> smoser: https://github.com/basak/nova/commits/master/
<Daviey> bug 845788
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 845788 in glance (Ubuntu) "update_image in glance.client doesn't add content-length so the swift backend can't chunk" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/845788
<Daviey> smoser: ^^ status?
<smoser> thank you rbasak
<smoser> zul, are you ok for me to upload that ?
<rbasak> (I will probably revise/squash this)
<smoser> or is there something else you were wanting to get in there... zul..
<smoser> rbasak, well, for better or worse, with gerrit and openstack, all merge commits are squashed !
<rbasak> sounds like fun :)
<Daviey> smoser: take it out-of-meeting, but if we can get that Fix Released by this time tomorrow it would be good.
<zul> smoser: i need to go through the list for glance/nova to make sure we arent missing that we should have
 * smoser is embarrased as he has to admit that bzr does a better job of merging branches than git does ... at least that gerrit uses.
<Daviey> bug 856530 , adam_g has a merge proposal .. does someone in ~ubuntu-server-dev / ~core-dev want to review that?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 856530 in nova (Ubuntu Oneiric) "nova user should not be in the nogroup group" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856530
<Daviey> okay, i'll do that
<Daviey> bug 854614 smoser, fixed in staged branch?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854614 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "metadata service local-hostname is not fqdn" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854614
<zul> Daviey:  i did this morning its already been merged
<zul> merged as well
<Daviey> zul: ok, great!
<Daviey> Now, what other bugs are we missing?
<zul> the samba winbind one i need to look at
<smoser> checking
<smoser> it would appear to be
<zul> and the need to fix keystone apparently
<Daviey> zul: bug number?
<zul> Daviey: dont have it off the top of my head
<Daviey> zul: can you let me know what it is after the meeting?
<zul> Daviey: ack
<Daviey> zul: I suspect SI will be helping with keystone.. shame they are not in the meeting.
<zul> i suspect most of the issues i already fixed in the upstream branch anyways
<zul> just need to roll a new tarball
<Daviey> Any Juju people here?
<smoser> wait. roll a new tarball ?
<smoser> of what ?
<zul> smoser:  keystone bug fixes
<lynxman> Daviey: SI is in the meeting :)
 * smoser publicly apologizes for not understanding completely the bug that he was discussing above, and for being rude to daviey.
<Daviey> smoser: shut up. :)
<utlemming> #action smoser and daviey to make up
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser and daviey to make up
<lynxman> Daviey: negronjl is working with iamfuzz in order to provide a keystone patch (coordinating with zul)
<Ursinha> lol
<Daviey> lynxman: Great!
<lynxman> Ursinha: we'll take pictures
<SpamapS> Still on "Oneiric Development" ? you guys been discussing the weather in here?
<Daviey> Ursinha: have anything concerning you?
<smoser> there is lots of oneiric development to discuss.
<Ursinha> Daviey, not really no, sir
<Daviey> SpamapS: Ah!  Anything juju of concern?
<Daviey> utlemming: we should probably move on.
<lynxman> I'd like to point out bugs #818177 and #854899
<SpamapS> Just as an FYI, I'm finishing up some intense testing of juju before uploading the renamed package today..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854899 in puppet (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Update to puppet-2.7.3" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854899
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818177 in udev (Ubuntu Oneiric) "boot failures caused by udev race" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818177
<lynxman> SpamapS: great, I'll tailgate you on that one for macports
<Daviey> SpamapS: awesome
<utlemming> If anyone has any other Oneiric development topics, please feel free to add to the agenda later.
<SpamapS> There will also be an FFe for another revision of Juju which will basically be the "eureka" release of Juju .. including local dev and some repository stuff.
<utlemming> Moving on...
<utlemming> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Review ACTION points from previous meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<hallyn> lynxman: yes, bug 818177 was the one i was really hoping jhunt would look at
<Daviey> lynxman: You do realise most of the meeting has been talking about the second bug you mentioned? :)
<lynxman> Daviey: I know, but still I had to ;)
<Daviey> Events!
<utlemming> I believe that there is an Open Stack event next week
<lynxman> utlemming: ODS next week in Boston
<Daviey> ODS
<Daviey> http://summit.openstack.org/ - lots of the team will be there.
<Daviey> (I should mention that today is the deadline for raising blueprints for that summit)
<SpamapS> Have we raised any?
<zul> yeah 2
<SpamapS> I may throw one in about S3 test suite for swift and/or using CEPH
<utlemming> #action Deadline for ODS is today
<meetingology> ACTION: Deadline for ODS is today
<Daviey> I have one pending.
<Daviey> maybe 2. lets take that out of meeting
<Daviey> When does Oneiric release by the way?
<SpamapS> Given the significant tap dancing we've had to do to make juju work with nova-objectstore since its "s3-like"
<utlemming> If there are no other events, lets move on
<utlemming> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Review ACTION points from previous meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<SpamapS> UDS!
<SpamapS> Its close enough to mention UDS :)
<Daviey> hggdh: Hello!
<hggdh> Daviey: yo
<utlemming> hggdh: Do you have any news for us?
<Daviey> utlemming: move on, we'll come back
<hggdh> no, no news
<hggdh> ..
<utlemming> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Review ACTION points from previous meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Trying to make it shortish: seems at least there is an upstream fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/854050
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 854050 in linux (Ubuntu) "BUG at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.38/mm/swapfile.c:255" [Medium,Confirmed]
<smb> currently building test kernel there
<smoser> smb, so does that bug actually happen when there is no swap ?
<smb> Otherwise trying to find out where the events on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xen/+bug/854829 go
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 854829 in xen (Ubuntu) "[Oneiric] Xen HVM: transmit timeouts on emulated 8139cp device" [Medium,Confirmed]
<smb> smoser, In theory it may
<smoser> i just wrote it off as not affecting amd64 on ec2 due to "swapfile.c"
<smb> But maybe not causing the same path to trigger
<Daviey> smb: bug 790712 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 790712 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "20110531 i386 server ISO: order 5 allocation failure during install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/790712
<smb> Daviey, no
<smoser> (there is no swap on amd64 instances on ec2 unless the user configures it, which is unlikely)
<smb> smoser, The explanation somehow was referring to forking under high load which may having some effect in all cases
<Daviey> smb: bug-790712 is not still viable for release?  SRU/P-Series target?
<smb> smoser, But I would just empirically let people affected try with a test kernel and that patch
<smoser> yeah.
<utlemming> #action smoser, utlemming and smb to follow up on Bug 790712
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser, utlemming and smb to follow up on Bug 790712
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 790712 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "20110531 i386 server ISO: order 5 allocation failure during install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/790712
<Daviey> smb: Those two you raised, are they viable for release or SRU/P-series?
<smb> Daviey, There was not much more information since the last time I looked. So as I wrote it is hard to make something off that
<smoser> i think that was the wrong bug number.
<utlemming> #action smoser, utlemming and smb to follow up on Bug 854050
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser, utlemming and smb to follow up on Bug 854050
<Daviey> yah, utlemming
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854050 in linux (Ubuntu) "BUG at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.38/mm/swapfile.c:255" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854050
<smb> Daviey, first one probably SRU (because it also needs to go into older releases)
<utlemming> And since we're going to run out of time, let's get moving
<Daviey> hggdh: I think smb could do with your re-confirmation on bug 790712
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 790712 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "20110531 i386 server ISO: order 5 allocation failure during install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/790712
<smb> Daviey, Second one probably too since I not yet found the trigger. But maybe
<utlemming> smb: Anything else?
<Daviey> smb: Okay, thanks!  Really appreciate you and your teams stability you have given this cycle.
<smb> no, dont think
<hggdh> Daviey, smb: I will retry it. Since it is sort-of random, I will run a full sequence
<utlemming> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Review ACTION points from previous meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<utlemming> NCommander: how is the arm world looking?
<NCommander> Looking good towards releasae
<Daviey> \o/
<NCommander> Few minor bugs in the netboot install, but otherwise no complaints from me
<smoser> bug 852225
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 852225 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ARM kernel writing 32bits to 16 bit register" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/852225
<smoser> woot! fix released.
<Daviey> NCommander: any speciic issues/bugs?
<smoser> utlemming, does that mean those images now boot under qemu ?
<utlemming> :( the lastest qemu images don't boot though, so I need to look at why
<Daviey> NCommander: bug 827705, invalid for u-boot.. is that correct?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 827705 in u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu) "PXE boot requests non-standard config filename" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827705
<NCommander> Daviey: guided partition on omap(4) doesn't work peroperly don't have bug number handy
<utlemming> #action utlemming to figure out qemu image situation
<meetingology> ACTION: utlemming to figure out qemu image situation
<NCommander> Daviey: I'm unfamiliar with that bug in question, will get back with you
<Daviey> NCommander: what are the minor bug numbers?
<Daviey> NCommander: thanks
<Daviey> NCommander: When you find that bug number, can you send it over to me please?
<Daviey> if there is nothing else, shall we move on?
<utlemming> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Review ACTION points from previous meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<utlemming> Do any of our community friends have any topics to raise?
<Daviey> Can we go home now?
<utlemming> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Review ACTION points from previous meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<utlemming> Daviey: I suppose
<Daviey> I thik we had "open discussion" already TBH
<utlemming> lol, I think so too
<utlemming> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Review ACTION points from previous meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<Daviey> cobbler-enlist support is doing well.
<SpamapS> Daviey: ^5
<Daviey> so, next week
<utlemming> Tuesday 2011-10-04 at 16:00 UTC
<Daviey> Many of us will be at ODSm but i think the meeting still needs to happen
<Daviey> I will certainly be here, at least in part.
<utlemming> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 27 17:00:24 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-27-16.06.moin.txt
<bjf> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 27 17:00:30 2011 UTC.  The chair is bjf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<Daviey> So lets TEST, TEST, DEVELOP, TEST, NEW UPSTREAM VERSIONS< TEST
<apw> o/
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<jjohansen> \o
<cking> o/
<sconklin> o/
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<smb> o/
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Various arm kernel flavours: nothing new this week.
<ppisati> Oneiric/ti-omap4: lp844099 ("System fails to acknowledge changing of SD"), found the problem, wrote a tentative patch and it worked. Sent a test kernel.
<ppisati> Oneiric/tegra: new community kernel (2.5.38-ac100-1000) with working sound and suspend/resume (at least on Toshiba AC100).
<ppisati> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<ogasawara> ==== oneiric nominated bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 37 linux kernel bugs (up 17)
<ogasawara> ==== Ubuntu ubuntu-11.10 bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 3 linux kernel bugs (up 3)
<ogasawara> ==== <series>-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 15 natty linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 3 maverick linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 7 lucid linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Incoming Bugs ===
<ogasawara>  * 255 oneiric bugs (up 34)
<ogasawara>  * 1643 natty bugs (up 25)
<ogasawara>  * 1107 maverick bugs (down 3)
<ogasawara>  * 992 lucid bugs (down 18)
<ogasawara>  * 46 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Regressions ===
<ogasawara> ==== regression-update bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 17 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 40 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 76 lucid bugs (down 3)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-release bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 8 oneiric bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 431 natty bugs (down 2)
<ogasawara>  * 237 maverick bugs (down 2)
<ogasawara>  * 208 lucid bugs (down 5)
<ogasawara>  * 2 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-proposed bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 4 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 2 lucid bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Milstone Targeted Work Items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milstone Targeted Work Items
<bjf> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/milestones.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || desktop-o-xorg-stakeholders-request || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || other-kernel-o-config-review        || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the table above, please review your final Oneiric work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We uploaded the 3.0.0-12.19 Ubuntu kernel last friday.  We are nearing Final Freeze for Oneiric this Thurs, Sept 29.  Only high/critical issues which are deemed necessary for the release will warrant an upload at this time.  Because we are in Kernel Freeze, all patches are subject to our SRU policy in order to be applied.
<ogasawara> Some important upcoming dates to keep in mind are as follows:
<ogasawara>  * Sept 29 - Final Freeze (2 days)
<ogasawara>  *  Oct  6 - Release Candidate (~1 week)
<ogasawara>  *  Oct 13 - Final Release (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara> I would also like to note that the P-series git repo has been rebased to v3.1-rc7 and is available on the master-next branch at git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-p.git .
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> === CVE Metrics ===
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> Currently open CVEs for each supported branch:
<apw>  
<apw> || Package                                  || Open      ||
<apw> ||                                          ||           ||
<apw> || linux Hardy                              ||    5 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux Lucid                              ||    2 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux Maverick                           ||    2 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux Natty                              ||    2 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux Oneiric                            ||    2 (--) ||
<apw> || linux-ec2 Lucid                          ||    2 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux-fsl-imx51 Lucid                    ||    2 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Lucid                     ||    2 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Maverick                  ||    2 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Maverick                  ||    2 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Natty                     ||    2 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Oneiric                   ||    2 (--) ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-maverick Lucid        ||    2 (-1) ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-natty Lucid           ||    2 (-1) ||
<apw>  
<apw> One additional CVE was added this week and all CVEs with fixes are now closed out.  We have referred two of the Hardy CVEs which have very large patch stacks back to the security team for review.
<apw>  
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<sconklin> ||== Status of kernels ==
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || An i915 graphics regression was discovered in Natty which was released in -updates.
<sconklin> || The offending patch has been identified and will be reverted in the next Natty
<sconklin> || kernel. Work is under way with upstream to come up with a new fix to add external
<sconklin> || monitor plug support without regressions. The bugs open for this regression are:
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/838181|External monitor connected trough . . .]]
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/814325|fuzzy and corrupted display after dpms cycles]]
<sconklin> ||
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 838181 in linux (Ubuntu) "External monitor connected trough mini DisplayPort wired to integrated Intel AGP is properly recognized and configured but has no sync" [Medium,Triaged]
<sconklin> || SRU kernel status:
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 814325 in Linux "fuzzy and corrupted display after dpms cycles" [Medium,Confirmed]
<sconklin> || * [[http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html|Kernel SRU Workflow Status]]
<sconklin> || * [[http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html|Detailed Information Here]]
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Kernel status for each series is as follows:
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Hardy ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/853945|Hardy Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * Currently undergoing regression testing
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 853945 in Kernel SRU Workflow regression-testing "linux: 2.6.24-29.94 -proposed tracker" [Undecided,In progress]
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Lucid ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/849228|Lucid Tracking Bug]]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 849228 in Kernel SRU Workflow "linux: 2.6.32-34.77 -proposed tracker" [Undecided,In progress]
<sconklin> || * Awaiting publishing to -updates and -security
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Maverick ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/854092|Maverick Tracking Bug]]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 854092 in Kernel SRU Workflow regression-testing "linux: 2.6.35-30.60 -proposed tracker" [Undecided,In progress]
<sconklin> || * In testing Phase. Undergoing regression testing, needs Certification testing
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Natty ===
<sconklin> || * In preparation, should be in Verification phase by the end of this week
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Current Kernel versions are available here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 27 17:07:25 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-27-17.00.moin.txt
<sconklin> thanks Brad!
<apw> bjf, thanks
<kamal> thanks bjf
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-28
<mvo_> hello
<bdmurray> hi
<jhunt> lo
 * stgraber waves
<cjwatson> afternoon *yawn*
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> afternoon... is that why I'm tired
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 28 15:03:05 2011 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko stgraber jhunt mvo ev bdmurray slangasek)
<slangasek> stgraber mvo bdmurray jhunt ev doko slangasek barry cjwatson
<slangasek> boom
<stgraber> - Got rid of most of friendly-recovery's bugs, the rest will have to wait for P. (bug 524605, bug 782872, bug 852266, bug 777524)
<stgraber> - Tracked bug 854967 down to a binary driver problem, hopefully gfxpayload blacklist will be updated to fix it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 524605 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout isn't configured by the time friendly-recovery starts" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524605
<stgraber> - Starting poking at bug 745960 though couldn't reproduce it yet
<stgraber> - Still trying to reproduce our "last" Edubuntu bug: bug 856460 but no luck so far
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 782872 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "Recovery mode is displayed in unreadable font" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/782872
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 852266 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "friendly-recovery spews noise about missing commands when /usr is a separate partition" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/852266
<stgraber> - Worked on a fix for bug 848072
<stgraber> - Did some upgrade testing for Edubuntu as we didn't have time to do it for beta2, didn't find any bug there
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 777524 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu Oneiric) "âRepair broken packagesâ option breaks with Python â¥ 2.6" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/777524
<stgraber> - On the side, did some work on porting the ISO tracker to Drupal 7. Will need some more work but at least for Launchpad integration working and am now a lot more familiar with Drupal 7 API.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854967 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-updates (Ubuntu) "boot to rescue mode in Oneiric" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854967
<stgraber> - TODO
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745960 in grub2 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Cannot boot grub after installing to LVM" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745960
<stgraber>  - Will do a bunch of uploads for translations update before final freeze
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 856460 in ltsp (Ubuntu) "ltsp-live fails to configure internal NIC" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856460
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 848072 in netcfg (Ubuntu) "[oneiric] net-installer dhcp client fails with a DHCPDECLINE" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848072
<stgraber>  - Will then continue going through milestoned ubiquity bugs and fix as many of them
<stgraber> oh, and did some patch piloting last Thursday
<stgraber> (done)
<mvo_> did:
<mvo_> summary: lots and lots of debugging/fixing
<mvo_> python-apt: fix bug #829284 once and for all via new ParentComponent concept in python-apt
<mvo_> aptdaemon: debug/fix/upload new version with fix for bug #659111
<mvo_> software-center: trying to verify remaining proxy issue, can't reproduce (#545134), port to the new UbuntuSSOClient API, tentative fix for  #857931, integrate lp:~mvo/software-center/review-stats-as-dbm for unity, debug/fix #651568 (turns out to be a bug in sun-java6), prepare debdiff, get in touch with brian
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 829284 in python-apt (Ubuntu) "Software Center does not enable "universe" when it enables "multiverse" software sources of dependencies" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829284
<mvo_> piston-mini-client: add proxy support, review branch from achuni, merge, upload new piston-mini-client to oneiric,
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 659111 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "Installing then removing Monodevelop reports "the package system is broken"" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659111
<mvo_> update-notifier: look at app indicator port for update-notifier (lp:~mvo/update-notifier/app-indicator-port
<mvo_> update-manager: look at #854622 again (changelog.Debian.gz no-duplicaton)
<mvo_> apt: work on regression test for apt-key net-update, net-update security issue, debug/diagnose/upload fix for #854090
<mvo_> misc: patch piloting
<mvo_> EOF
<mvo_> stgraber: thanks for the friendly-recovery fixes!!!
<bdmurray> since I missed last weeks meeting this covers some of that period
 * slangasek drowns in stgraber's list of bugs
<bdmurray> bug triage of foundations team iso-testing bugs
<bdmurray> bug pattern writing for bug 854090 and investigation into it and bug 859976
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854090 in update-manager (Ubuntu Oneiric) "aptd crashed with SIGSEGV in debListParser::LoadReleaseInfo()" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854090
<bdmurray> discovered an issue with bugpatterns not working because OriginalTitle is not known when an apport bug is being reported - it is only defined when downloading  a bug title
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854090 in update-manager (Ubuntu Oneiric) "duplicate for #859976 aptd crashed with SIGSEGV in debListParser::LoadReleaseInfo()" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854090
<bdmurray> fixed all existing patterns and emailed bug control
<bdmurray> investigation into ntfs resize errors and ntfs-3g bug reports
<bdmurray> plymouth apport package hook modification fixing bug 860371 (gather more log files)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 860371 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport should save boot.log for plymouth crashes" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/860371
<bdmurray> modification of apport package hook for debian-installer to properly collect dm information (LP: #856826)
<bdmurray> added active_milestones to distro_series in lpltk
<bdmurray> wrote an important milestoned bug tasks report for slangasek and other engineering teams
<bdmurray> html report of recently important bug tasks
<bdmurray> created an html version of the assigned old in progress bug tasks report                                                                                        created html version of report of team-left-closed bug tasks report
<bdmurray> you can find links to all reports at http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/
<bdmurray> irc discussion regarding crichton and patch subscription
<bdmurray> wrote and sent trip report from OReilly Strata Conference
<bdmurray> work on role and responsibilities of the defect analysts
<bdmurray> done
<jhunt> On holiday last week. Fixed a trying bug in the upstart job logging code
<jhunt> which will allow an updated ppa build this week (although still need to
<jhunt> finish some tests). Currently working on bugs 849414, 829980 and 849414.
<jhunt> â
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 849414 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/849414
<stgraber> mvo_: no prob, hopefully I can spend some more time on it for 12.04 so we can get a rocking recovery mode for the LTS
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 829980 in upstart (Ubuntu) "upstart-udev-bridge eats 100% cpu calling dbus_message_iter_append_basic()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829980
<slangasek> [LINK] reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/foundations-bugs/foundations-bugs-next-milestone-important-bug-tasks.html - important milestoned bug tasks
<jhunt> stgraber: I'm keen to help out with that too.
<slangasek> bdmurray: it occurs to me that it would be nice to show the assignee on there too, btw
<stgraber> jhunt: cool, definitely worth a session in Orlando then
<jhunt> stgraber: agreed!
<bdmurray> slangasek: got it
<cjwatson> it'd be lovely for all reports.qa pages to show a timestamp of when the report was generated
<stgraber> oh, speaking of reports, I now have: http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/ if someone's wondering what's in our package sets (and doesn't want to play with edit_acl.py)
<slangasek> bdmurray: ^^ agree with cjwatson; for that matter, embedding a link to the source would be nice
<bdmurray> I've todo'ed the timestamp
<slangasek> ev:
<ev> - Fixed live-build to include universe and friends on Wubi disk images
<ev>   (855301).
<ev> - Call with Hugh and others on the employee survey.
<ev> - Fixed locale issues with Wubi disk images (855295).
<ev> - Fixed timezone issues with Wubi disk images (855287).
<ev> - Fixed release notes update installer links being displayed when there isn't
<ev>   a network connection (856213).
<ev> - Fighting Wubi test harness and fixing bug (856340).
<ev> - Repaint the wallpaper in ubiquity by entering the GTK main loop (854179).
<ev> - Fought ubiquity tests build failures, pygobject 3 to blame (854179).
<ev> - Replied to HP regarding customizing the installer.
<ev> - Reviewing developer.ubuntu.com at the request of the web team before it went
<ev>   live.
<ev> - Set ATK names only when using --ldtp in ubiquity (781385).
<ev> - UBUNTU IS PEOPLE! (855685).
<ev> - Fixed Wubi not using a local ISO (bad refactoring, yay) (842397).
<ev> - Fighting with canonical-arm on oem-config-gtk (820514).
<ev> - Trying to get to the bottom of the apt lock bug (743395). A few attempts at
<ev>   fixing it made.
<ev> - Meeting with Iain, Matthew, and John on changes to the downloads page 11.10.
<ev> - Evening fun hacking on the metrics collection backend and Wubi frontend
<ev>   using nodejs and MongoDB.  Working prototype \o/ and I'll have a Vagrant
<ev>   configuration (VirtualBox + puppet/chef: http://vagrantup.com/) in a public
<ev>   branch soon, if you want to get your own projects hooked into it.
<ev> - Fixed some bugs caught by unit tests.
<ev> - Merged and pushed out a new slideshow with updated screenshots for the
<ev>   latest desktop changes.
<ev> - Reviewing Colin's async geonames branch
<ev>   (https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/ubiquity/libsoup-timezone/+merge/77324).
<ev> done!
<jhunt> that's a lot of fightin' :)
<ev> :)
<mvo_> yeah, really impressive list!
<ev> thanks!
<slangasek> ah, soylent ubuntu
<slangasek> doko: did you make it back in time?
<ev> I'm working on reanimating Heston
<slangasek> guess not, so I'll dump doko's status here for him
<slangasek> - more ftbfs fixes, although the pace slows down (~30).
<slangasek> - sponsoring ftbfs fixes, ftbfs related archive removals
<slangasek> - fixed some armel ftbfs (linker related and fpc related)
<slangasek> - openjdk-6 JamVM update (please expect an openjdk-7 update still this week)
<slangasek> - 853688, no real solution yet. proposed to fix the
<slangasek> original issue in command-not-found
<slangasek> - bug triage on some issues
<slangasek> - scanned the armel ftbfs, no new binutils/gcc related issues found
<slangasek> - eglibc update (maybe one more needed: 861132)
<slangasek> - addressed (too) late linking changes in the gtk/gnome uploads on #debian-release.
<slangasek> bug #853688
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 853688 in gcj-4.4 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Natty to Oneiric - failed to calculate the upgrade with gcj-4.4-jre installed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/853688
<slangasek> bug #861132
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 861132 in eglibc "setenv ("NAME", NULL) corrupts environment" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861132
<slangasek> and then me
<slangasek> pushed changes to gdm,lightdm,plymouth to give us text-free shutdown again (bug #854329).  If you still see dots over text, report bugs!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854329 in xdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "race condition on shutdown with more than one DM installed" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854329
<slangasek> fixed up i18n for console-setup (bug #838669)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 838669 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Keep default layout dialog is not localized in Finnish" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838669
<slangasek> did some thinking about apt-key over the weekend, helping to come up with a plan
<slangasek> qemu-linaro FFe, fixing FTBFS
<slangasek> fixing up flashplugin-nonfree maintainer scripts
<slangasek> upload dpkg to catch all the stragglers still missing multiarch on their systems (bug #846451)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 846451 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "upgrades from oneiric beta-1 installs missing multiarch support" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/846451
<slangasek> convert jackd2 to multiarch at the eleventh hour because I converted the wrong libjack before (bug #861025); still regression-testing the archive for buildability
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 861025 in jackd2 (Ubuntu) "FFe: I don't know jack, need to multiarch jackd2" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861025
<slangasek> spent some time helping with FFe reviews
<slangasek> (done)
<ev> slangasek: will ubiquity-dm need anything for that text-free shutdown?
<barry> bug 795096 (turbojson ftbfs - python-peak.util update); bug 850744 (quickly crash after upgrade); bug 832782 (python-omniorb ftbfs); bug 835008 (nipype ftbfs); gtimelog 0.7 release (upstream and ubuntu); bug 831344 (cardstories ftbfs); merge python-defaults from debian; python security issue 7732 (imp.find_module crasher); todo: continue on 795096 and 850744, other ftbfs. done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 795096 in turbojson (Ubuntu Oneiric) "FTBFS with Python 2.7 as default" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/795096
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 850744 in quickly (Ubuntu) "quickly crashed with ImportError in __main__: No module named quickly" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850744
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832782 in python-omniorb (Ubuntu Oneiric) "python-omniorb version 3.5-3 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832782
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 835008 in nipype (Ubuntu Oneiric) "nipype version 0.4.1-1 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/835008
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831344 in cardstories (Debian) "cardstories version 1.0.6-1 failed to build in oneiric" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831344
<cjwatson> some cross-build fixes
<cjwatson> gfxboot-theme-ubuntu: Lubuntu localisation (bug 855977)
<cjwatson> d-i: handle /dev/zram* the same way as /dev/ramzswap*; fix a collection of Xen installation bugs (bug 720558, bug 857548, bug 857662); netcfg hostname fix (bug 856088); installation-guide update; working on bug 851704; fixed up i18n for console-setup harder :-) (bug 860562)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 855977 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Entries with "Lubuntu" are not translated on the boot menu on any Lubuntu ISO" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855977
<cjwatson> grub: fix arcane linking bug (bug 837815)
<slangasek> ev: the particular problem being fixed was that if there were two DMs installed on a system that had been upgraded (e.g., lightdm+gdm), one of these will stop at *startup*, so plymouth starts as soon as the runlevel event happens.  I don't think ubiquity-dm is affected by this
<cjwatson> ubiquity: working on networkless hang on timezone page (bug 837217) - incidentally, by contrast with the mumble discussion, I found the GI Soup interface perfectly reasonable :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 720558 in grub (Ubuntu Natty) "Ubuntu 10.04 currently requires groot= workaround with pvgrub" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/720558
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 857548 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Natty) "no longer possible to select GRUB Legacy by preseeding" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857548
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 857662 in debian-installer (Ubuntu P-series) "Should xenbus_probe_frontend be built-in?" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857662
<cjwatson> various UEFI secure boot discussions, spilled over onto ubuntu-users@ and the like
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 856088 in netcfg (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Expert install defaults to invalid hostname" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856088
<cjwatson> ADSL fixed last week; now have twice the bandwidth I had before, which is still not a lot but there you go
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 851704 in grub2 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "GRUB reports error after successful installation (Alternate)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851704
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 837815 in grub (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Grub 0.97-29ubuntu62 gives error "Error 6: Mismatched or corrupt version of stage1/stage2"" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837815
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 837217 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Time Zone selector hangs and ubiquity freezes if network connection is firewalled" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837217
<cjwatson> a bit generally distracted at the moment due to family medical issues
<cjwatson> ..
<ev> slangasek: cool, just making sure
<slangasek> ev: but switching to emitting the 'desktop-shutdown' symbol would be nice anyway in the long term, to simplify our job logic
<ev> noted
<mvo_> slangasek: apt-key - I really much appreciated your help with that one, excellent plan
<slangasek> mvo_: glad it helped!  what's the timeline for getting those changes in, then?  Will we have it in oneiric before final release?
<mvo_> slangasek: I want to get some additional review from #security, but I think that is within the scope
<slangasek> cjwatson: what's the state of cross-buildability now?  how far have we bitrotted?
<cjwatson> I think I've cured the worst of the bitrot, although python2.6 doesn't seem to cross-build for me which is a current impedance to a lot of stuff
<jhunt> a general upstart point: we should be updating upstart-events(7) when we add new events like desktop-shutdown and recovery.
<cjwatson> wookey and I have some mismatches on what we're trying to make work
<cjwatson> mvo: do you think you could upload that sha512 fix in apt to Debian?  if I have that there, I can upload xdeb to Debian and sync
<cjwatson> (modulo FFe)
<slangasek> hmm, speaking of gfxboot-theme-ubuntu, while debugging my boot flickers over the weekend, I had a poke at putting the plymouth logo on the grub background... I don't suppose anyone's planning for grub2 to grow a '-center' option for the background_image command? :)
<cjwatson> slangasek: what we don't have, and what I think needs to be a priority in P if we're taking this seriously, is a regularly updated dashboard of current failures that *isn't* in the form of a spreadsheet attached to a wiki page
<slangasek> heh, yes
<mvo_> cjwatson: I looked at this the other day, its only a bug in experimental currently, unstable is fine
<slangasek> jhunt: shall I open a task on upstart for this bug?
<cjwatson> mvo: oh really?  ok, excellent
<mvo> cjwatson: or will xdeb go to experimental too?
<cjwatson> mvo: no, unstable
<cjwatson> slangasek: center - hm, I think I tried to add -x and -y at one point, I forget what went wrong
<mvo> cjwatson: yeah, unstable in debian is a bit behind because of the massive ABI break and the binary NMUs still will requires
<jhunt> slangasek: cool, thx.
<cjwatson> slangasek: cross-building> so at the moment unfortunately even answering your question is rather arduous.  Linaro's work is largely based on natty
<slangasek> cjwatson: my current method is to use 'convert' to switch the logo from RGBA to RGB and expand it out to the dimensions that I happen to know my display comes up at... not very portable, and imagemagick isn't in the base system :)
<cjwatson> I have 84 cross-built packages in my tree, but of course that's only a small core - I was trying to see if I could get all of Ubuntu Core to work
<cjwatson> slangasek: I don't think putting the plymouth logo on the grub background is in general realistic, which is why I haven't pursued this
<slangasek> fair enough
<cjwatson> slangasek: it means it is really really obvious when your manufacturer hasn't bothered to put the KMS panel resolution in EDID
<slangasek> I was spending a lot of time rebooting my old laptop this weekend, so I gave it a go
<cjwatson> at least with a plain filled background, one purple screen looks much like another
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> though it would be nice if the logo faded in rather than just being blitted
<cjwatson> bling
 * slangasek grins
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: what's buggy? :)
<cjwatson> (please don't say "everything")
<slangasek> it's his job to be more selective ;)
<bdmurray> almost everything!
<bdmurray> ;-)
<ev> hahaha
<slangasek> well done!
<mvo> lol
<ev> ship it!
<bdmurray> bug 855042 seems rather important and is still new but has a fair bit of information
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 855042 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity hangs while jockey-text at 100% CPU" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855042
<cjwatson> let's have that be Confirmed at least
<cjwatson> I have a horrible feeling that's hw-dependent
<ev> surely that's a jockey bug
<bdmurray> jockey creates its own log file right? would that be worth getting?
<ev> stderr, as far as I'm aware
<ev> but presumably this is reproduceable outside of ubiquity
<bdmurray> apport.hookutils.attach_file_if_exists(report, '/var/log/jockey.log')
<ev> so they could just redirect
<ev> ah
<ev> neato
<stgraber> based on the syslog, the hardware seems to use intel graphics and most of the rest seems to be intel too
<cjwatson> hmm, why is that asking for confirmation?  we don't pass --confirm
<ev> ohhhhh
<cjwatson> afaics confirm_action is only called inside an 'if confirm:' guard
<ev> I thought we fixed this AGES ago?
<cjwatson> oh
<cjwatson>             self.set_handler_enable(h_id, 'enable', True)
<cjwatson> in check_composite
<cjwatson> so that always asks for confirmation regardless (third arg = confirm)
<ev> but confirm shouldn't matter? We feed it y\n with LC_ALL set to C
<cjwatson> oh, we do?
<cjwatson> I see no LC_ALL=C in ./scripts/simple-plugins
<ev> ah
<ev> I was foolishly looking in plugininstall.py
<cjwatson> nor any y/n passing
<cjwatson> (and if jockey-text is using stdio there, it'll probably break debconf, too)
 * cjwatson wonders why this is duplicated between plugininstall and simple-plugins
<ev> indeed, an oversight
<ev> oh
<ev> because we need to do the latter in the chroot
<ev> otherwise bad things happen, according to pitti, but I can't recall exactly what
<bdmurray> okay so you two are looking into this now?
<slangasek> sounds like they have it triaged :)
<slangasek> other bugs?
<bdmurray> bug 861303 recently reported by scottk
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 861303 in python-numpy (Ubuntu Oneiric) "import numpy fails badly" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861303
<ev> (sidebar, scripts/simple-plugins should die in a fire)
<bdmurray> the title is wrong / misleading
<slangasek> very strange
<slangasek> anyone have any guesses why python modules would suddenly be unable to resolve symbols in a package build?
<barry> slangasek: which symbols?  all of them? :)
<slangasek> barry: Py_InitModule4
<barry> slangasek: i was afraid you might say that.  now i have to remember which package i fixed something similar in
<slangasek> barry: cool; will you follow up on the bug?
<barry> slangasek: 861303, right?
<slangasek> barry: yep
<barry> slangasek: will do
<bdmurray> the other 2 I'm looking at are more long term the traceback in bug 850482 is causing some incorrect duplicate marking
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 850482 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with SystemError in mark_install(): E:Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850482
<bdmurray> I'm wondering if there is a way to make that error more verbose to prevent this incorrect duplicate marking
<mvo> I can look into that after the meeting, maybe need to just append the pkgname to the error string
<bdmurray> mvo: okay thanks!
<bdmurray> finally bug 69176 (not a typo) ;-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 69176 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "No notification in Ubiquity for bad sectors" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/69176
 * slangasek nods
<bdmurray> I recently found a ubiquity bug regarding bad sectors when trying to use ntfsresize
<bdmurray> while there aren't a lot of these it seems like it might be helpful to deal with this situation better
<slangasek> kinda hard to get bad sector notification into the GUI, because there's no clear back channel for this... anyone have any clever ideas about how to handle that one?
<cjwatson> I have some preliminary work for talking to external fs tools in a smarter way
<cjwatson> this becomes more urgent for parted 3.0 because it drops the buggy and unmaintained filesystem code there
 * doko just came back
<cjwatson> but there's no way it'll be in place for oneiric
<cjwatson> mostly I'm focusing on fixing the lack of decent progress output on many mkfs/resize ops in the installer
<cjwatson> but I think it could probably be used to handle other problems too
 * slangasek waves to doko
<bdmurray> right of course I was thinking of targetting it for P
<cjwatson> yeah; still quite a bit to go but that might be realistic
<slangasek> cool
<slangasek> thanks, bdmurray
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else before we all turn into pumpkins?
<cjwatson> FWIW the bug list I'm tracking for release meetings is http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-mgr-o-tracking-bugs.html
<ev> I have two things. One, lets talk about integration tests at UDS.  That is, what would it take to fire off the ubiquity test harness when someone uploads GTK+ (run all the unit tests for any reverse deps for the package being built)?
<ev> And two, http://www.vagrantup.com - VirtualBox + puppet/chef - great for working on things that you at some point want IS to provision, but can't bother waiting on RTs
<barry> slangasek: hopefully not 1487 lb pumpkins
<ev> especially when you're working with others, as you just pass around the config
<slangasek> ev: integration tests> can you talk to Pete to make sure QA is covering this topic at UDS?
<ev> slangasek: will do
<slangasek> ev: vagrantup - that only helps when you have the local hardware resources to provision it yourself, I guess? :)
<cjwatson> I've got IS to give me an rsync module on cocoplum accessible from lillypilly so that I can have an all-arches dists/ mirror there
<ev> well, it's a virtual machine
<cjwatson> this will let us have all-arches rmadison and start moving various archive tools off cocoplum when they only need Packages/Sources
<cjwatson> and reduce the ssh-with-restricted-keys madness for a bunch of stsuff
<cjwatson> planning on spending a bit of time doing that after final freeze
<slangasek> ev: right, but you need to have hardware with enough idle cpu and disk to provision the vms for the jobs you're doing, I guess
<slangasek> cjwatson: lillypilly> very nice
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 28 16:02:49 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-28-15.03.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, everyone!
<barry> thanks!
<mvo> thanks
<stgraber> thanks
<jhunt> thanks
<ev> slangasek: true
<ev> thanks!
 * Ursinha looks around
<jibel> ~Ã´~
<Ursinha> :)
<bdmurray> \o/
<gema> o/
<nuclearbob> howdy
<Ursinha> chair is jibel, right?
 * charlie-tca waves
<jibel> Ursinha, right
<jibel> pedro_'s joined us. Lets start meeting
<jibel> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA Team
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 28 17:03:20 2011 UTC.  The chair is jibel. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Team Meeting | Current topic:
<Ursinha> jibel, useful stuff here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings/Chairing#Handy_commands
<Ursinha> copy, paste and be happy
<Ursinha> :)
<pedro_> uh just in time ;-)
<jibel> #topic Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Team Meeting | Current topic:  Previous Actions
<jibel> there are 3 actions from previous meeting
<jibel> Ursinha to chase checkbox package problem with ara
<Ursinha> I have two of my own
<jibel> ^ Ursinha what about checkbox package problem ?
<Ursinha> the checkbox package resolved itself when the dependencies reached the ppa
<Ursinha> so I didn't have to bother ara with that
<jibel> great, thanks for that.
<jibel> gema to create a starting point (page or something) to discuss and note automation testing for Ubuntu
<jibel> gema, any news ?
<gema> I created a wiki and added one item as an example
<gema> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/CommunityFeedback
<Ursinha> yay
<gema> I will be adding more stuff and it would be good to start getting feedback from other people too
<charlie-tca> o/
<gema> this is your chance to complain big time!
<jibel> charlie-tca, we are all ears
<gema> yep
<charlie-tca> gema: I reviewed the testing doc, but I think I forgot to send the email
<charlie-tca> It looks good to get started
<gema> ok
<gema> any feedback you have send it to me
<charlie-tca> ..
<gema> ..
<jibel> thanks gema
<jibel> Last action from previous week: Ursinha to add irc commands to the next chair
<Ursinha> I did that, it's in the Chairing link
<Ursinha> ..
<jibel> Ursinha, cool thanks, will try that at the end of the meeting
<jibel> #topic Community Efforts/Testing  jibel
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Team Meeting | Current topic:  Community Efforts/Testing  jibel
<jibel> Last week was Oneiric Beta 2 testing
<jibel> Testing report: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/OneiricBeta2TestReport
<jibel> Participation was as high as Beta1 and we wish it will be higher for the final release.
<jibel> The list of bugs found during the milestone is at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/report
<jibel> List of bugs found during previous milestones:
<jibel> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/iso-testing-open-all.html
<jibel> Tomorrow is final freeze, you can help with testing daily ISOs and make sure that nothing release critical made its way to the images.
<jibel> If you find something then raise a red flag.
<jibel> Other topic on community testing: laptop testing
<jibel> primes2h sent a call for testing last Friday
<jibel> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-qa/2011-September/001689.html
<jibel> You can help there too.
<jibel> For laptop testing you'll need to run oneiric Beta 2 on your laptop and report results to the tracker.
<jibel> that's all from me
<jibel> any question/comment/complaints ?
<jibel> moving on
<jibel> #topic Automated/Systems Testing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Team Meeting | Current topic:  Automated/Systems Testing
<jibel> anyone ?
<gema> nothing from me
<gema> ..
<nuclearbob> I'm working on the qrt scripts
<nuclearbob> making changes where necessary to get them all working on natty, then looking into implementing a system to note different dependencies for different versions, and ensure they work right on the lts versions
<nuclearbob> we'll be doing more design on that at a session at uds
<nuclearbob> that's all I've got for now
<jibel> nice thanks. is there a blueprint registered for UDS so people interested can subscribe ?
<jibel> nuclearbob, ^
<nuclearbob> not yet, I'll be working with pgraner on that later
<jibel> ok, keep us informed
<nuclearbob> will do
<jibel> on the automation side, boot speed testing is back
<jibel> you see the report at http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/boot-speed/
<jibel> patrickmw, could tell more than me so that's all I can say for today.
<bdmurray> wow that's pretty
<Ursinha> indeed
<jibel> it is, thanks to bjf artistic talent
<bdmurray> whatâ½ an artistic kernel dev
<gema> bdmurray: kernels are pure art...
<jibel> #topic Engineering Team Bug Status bdmurray pedro_ Ursinha
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Team Meeting | Current topic:  Engineering Team Bug Status bdmurray pedro_ Ursinha
<Ursinha> nothing to report; lots in progress, nothing completed
<Ursinha> ..
<bdmurray> uploaded new apport hooks for plymouth and debian-installer
<bdmurray> wrote a few additional html reports of bug tasks
<bdmurray> at http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/
<Ursinha> \o/
<bdmurray> went to O'Reilly Strata conference regarding BIG data
<bdmurray> lots of interesting stuff regarding data visualization etc...
<bdmurray> discovered an issue with bugpatterns not working because OriginalTitle is not known when an apport bug is being reported - it is only defined when downloading  a bug title
<bdmurray> fixed all existing patterns and emailed bug control
<bdmurray> that's all
<pedro_> so besides normal bug triage, I've wrote a few bug patterns for different packages (can't remember the list so better check the changelog)
<pedro_> and i've also looking at old bugs with a fixed upstream task so start closing those in our side (Ubuntu)
<pedro_> seems we have almost a ~1000 of those right now
<pedro_> only on the desktop set...
<Ursinha> how many did you clean?
<Ursinha> up
<bdmurray> pedro_: I wonder if there is some way to automate that
<pedro_> Ursinha, I'm manually checking those right now, so is not  a fast process
<Ursinha> I believe we can automate that, yes
<Ursinha> pedro_, want to discuss that outside the meeting, right after that?
<bdmurray> yes please
<Ursinha> awesome
<pedro_> bdmurray, right , an automated process would be cool, and it would also work for other packages with upstream project
<Ursinha> :)
<pedro_> yeah lets discuss that later
<pedro_> so nothing else from me
<pedro_> ..
<jibel> any question ?
<jibel> #topic Other topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Team Meeting | Current topic:  Other topics
<jibel> anyone ?
<gema> ..
<jibel> [TOPIC] Chair Selection - $ shuf -e  pedro_ Ursinha bdmurray nuclearbob gema charlie-tca  | head -1
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Team Meeting | Current topic:  Chair Selection - $ shuf -e  pedro_ Ursinha bdmurray nuclearbob gema charlie-tca  | head -1
<jibel> and ? where is the magic ?
<charlie-tca> At least it tells you something now?
<jibel> nuclearbob
<nuclearbob> all right
<Ursinha> jibel, ah, I recall you giving me the mission of implementing this as a bot command
<jibel> Ursinha, no problem, I think there are more useful things to do at this stage of the release
<charlie-tca> +1
<jibel> #action nuclearbob to chair next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: nuclearbob to chair next meeting
<jibel> 3
<jibel> 2
<jibel> 1
<jibel> thank you all for attending
<jibel> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 28 17:38:21 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-28-17.03.moin.txt
<charlie-tca> jibel: thank you for chairing.
<pedro_> jibel, thanks!
<charlie-tca> Ursinha: thank you for updating the wiki on chairing
<Ursinha> charlie-tca, no problem!
<Ursinha> thanks for chairing jibel
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-29
<ogra_> fnop
<czajkowski> indeed
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 29 15:00:03 2011 UTC.  The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * janimo waves
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2011/20110929
<NCommander> there are no outstanding action items
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm-ubuntu-11.10-beta-2.html
<ogra_> that doersnt make any sense :)
<ogra_> B2 is gone
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> ENEEDCAFFIENE
<ogra_> :)
<NCommander> the burndown chart looks good, we completed pretty much all major work items this cycle
<NCommander> [action] Everyone to postpone any remaining work items
<meetingology> ACTION: Everyone to postpone any remaining work items
<ogra_> yeah, doko trashes our statisticts
<ogra_> i think the postponing happened already
<ogra_> i only see three Wi left
<ogra_> two from doko, one assigned to the team ?
<ogra_> why the heck is that assigned to the team
<janimo> quite a few of my WIs are testing/research which are not affected by a particular release date
<GrueMaster> I need to postpone the lava work.  Seems the system was reengineered and will require me to rethink how I deploy it (again).
<ogra_> janimo, didnt you add the 4M boundary stuff already ?
<NCommander> I just postedponed my one oustanding work item
<janimo> ogra_, add it where? I think that was done first in Oneiric
<ogra_> janimo, yes, me too, thats why i ask you :)
<ogra_> there is an open WI for it
<ogra_> align rootfs to 4M boundary on OMAP preinstalled images (debian-cd)
<janimo> GrueMaster, yes, I had two lava WIs . One took too long for little benefit, the other I just postponed. No more yak-shaving for me
<infinity> Pretty sure I merged that in debian-cd for janimo months ago.
<ogra_> i think i merged code from you that had this
<ogra_> or reviwed
<GrueMaster> heh
<ogra_> *reviewed
<janimo> ogra_, so it is done, not sure where it is to be added. You mean it does not show up in the tracker?
<ogra_> janimo, it does, but not assigned to you
<janimo> that may be because silly syntax in the whiteboard then
<janimo> ah. weird. Anyway it is done :)
 * ogra_ will fix that post meeting, i just wanted to be sure it happened
<NCommander> anything else here or can I move?
<ogra_> move
<janimo> it happened. OTOH I saw no perceptible speed gain in booting panda with that partition alignment
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<GrueMaster> ogra_: I'll mark the bug as fix released.
<ogra_> yeah, thx
<NCommander> with the exception of guided partitioning (will cover in image status), I'm very happy with the state of our server images and feelthey are ready for release
<NCommander> anyone got anything else?
<ogra_> Daviey, ??
<ogra_> doesnt look like
<NCommander> [topic]Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<ogra_> audio !!!
<ppisati> a new omap4 kernel has been pushed yesterday
<ppisati> with 4460 support and some other goodies
<ppisati> today the audio fix should go in
<ogra_> \o/
<janimo> ppisati, also support for pvr is in?
<janimo> or rather did not regress
<ogra_> janimo, i think rsalveti cared for that
<janimo> ok
<ogra_> in the tree we merged
<ppisati> janimo: the new gfx driver you mean?
 * rsalveti waves
<janimo> not that I have an omap4 to test on but ...
<janimo> ppisati, yes
<ppisati> should be a separate pkg, but the kernel we pulled had a couple of reverts to accomodate it
<rsalveti> janimo: in theory it should work with the driver already available at the ppa
<rsalveti> just didn't test it yet
<janimo> ok
<ogra_> would be good to know before release if it works ;)
<ogra_> but thats still weeks :)
<ogra_> janimo, what about ac100 ?
<janimo> it works
<ogra_> do you plan another upload with the quietening patch ?
<ogra_> or do we keep that for post release
<janimo> if there's any more fixes needed they should be batched in an upload
<janimo> ogra_, what does it quiet exactly? nvec?
<ogra_> k, i agree
<ogra_> janimo, the horrtible niosy boot
<janimo> ogra_, I'd rather have it before release. Also enable MD/DM as those were dropped vs your package
<ogra_> janimo, k, then go ahead :)
<janimo> ogra_, hmm, nosiy boot, isn't that taken care of by quiet on the cmdline?
<janimo> ok, we'll discuss it on ac100
<ogra_> yes
<ogra_> but it wasnt acxtually quiet
<ogra_> marvins tree has the fix already
 * janimo needs to check.
 * ogra_ is done
<janimo> ok, but he also has crazy zcache stuff, so I may need to cherry pick . We'll see
<rsalveti> ppisati: and remember that to have proper 4460 support we still need to fix bug 851974
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 851974 in u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu) "FFe: u-boot-linaro 11.09, misc fixes for new silicon and boards" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851974
<ogra_> zcache needs to be explicitly enabled on kernel cmdline
<ogra_> dont bother
<ppisati> rsalveti: is uboot going to be updated?
<ppisati> i mean, the pkg in the archive
<rsalveti> ppisati: it needs to be updated :-)
<ogra_> rsalveti, jcrigby is already working on the upload (i acked the bug)
<ppisati> ok
<rsalveti> ogra_: great, thanks
<ogra_> does he need a sponsor ?
 * ogra_ forgot to ask
<rsalveti> nops
<ogra_> k
<rsalveti> will include the release team then
<ogra_> NCommander, ? move ?
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<janimo> nothing to report
<janimo> currently looking at ido ftbfs
<NCommander> So the guided partition on omap isa bit of a problem. Specifically, you can't set a device in a partman reciepe. The documentation is misleading since the device{} tag only works for LVM
<ogra_> topic ?
<NCommander> This doesn't fit into ARM porting?
<ogra_> i thought you wanted to save it for image :)
<ogra_> anyway
 * ogra_ throws bug 857299 in the room
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 857299 in banshee (Ubuntu) "banshee window remain white on startup on pandaboard" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857299
<ogra_> i fear that needs serious caretaking
<ogra_> and it happens on ac100 too
<janimo> ah, banshee again
<NCommander> That being said, partman-uboot is done, and works extremely well, so it adds sanity checking. I'm unsure though if I should upload it this late (although it will properly add warnings to an unbootable configuration)
<ogra_> NCommander, whats its status now (i.e. the package we have in the archive) ?
<ogra_> i assume its worse ?
<NCommander> we have nothing in the archive, I was holding off uploading. Uploading partman-uboot will get the netboot installer to do error checking, but I don't know how to force the installer straight to the manual partitioning screen
<NCommander> as such there is no error or sanity checking during partitioning on OMAP
<ogra_> partman-uboot isnt there from the dove times ?
<NCommander> oh, no its there
<NCommander> Theres just no OMAP code in it as of writing
<ogra_> and its unusable atm
<ogra_> right and we dont support dove
<ogra_> upload away !
<NCommander> right the current partman-uboot does nothing on OMAP. The new version fixes it
<NCommander> k
<NCommander> (actually, I left dove support in incase it ever comes back :-))
<NCommander> uploading now
<ogra_> awesome
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> well, archive is skewed
 * NCommander headthunks
<ogra_> up to yesterday they built fine
<janimo> mx53 boot and installer is very slow
<ogra_> hey, x86 skew this time
<ogra_> :)
<janimo> slower than I remember the omap3 to be
<ogra_> how is the system after install ?
<ogra_> i think we can live with a slow install if the system itself is ok
<ogra_> (and with a slow boot fwiw)
<janimo> ogra_, it worked apart from trying to start ubiquity again. Need to see again with oem-config out
 * GrueMaster proposes going back to live/installer images for P.
<janimo> this was yesterday's image
<janimo> GrueMaster, +1
<ogra_> GrueMaster, make the install faster than 2h and we can talk
<janimo> if that measn installers like x86 ubuntu uses
<ogra_> it also means extra hours for testing
<janimo> ogra_, something worth at least investigating. spec?
<ogra_> and we will likely have more arches next round again
<ogra_> janimo, definitely
<janimo> ogra_, only if we keep preinstalled. Which is a misnomer as it still asks questions and takes time
 * ogra_ is all for not diverging (though preinstalled fulfills a need as well) 
<GrueMaster> The point is we need some way to get off of SD if the system has a better medium available (USB, SATA, etc).
<infinity> We just need to sort out how to add in-place/resize as an option to d-i.
<ogra_> agreed
<janimo> unlike linaros which is really a dd-able preinstall, albeit without the luxury of picking name for user 1000
<infinity> I think I may have a spec for that.
<NCommander> We'll spec it for UDS
<ogra_> yeah, there is a d-i spec for that
<ogra_> infinity, did you solve the slideshow issue ?
 * ogra_ saw all the other fixes but cant remember that one
<infinity> ogra_: Fix committed to ubiquity.  Was an upload done while I was asleep?
<ogra_> i dont think so
<ogra_> thanks !
<ogra_> NCommander, move ?
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
<GrueMaster> With the current state of the daily images, I really shouldn't comment.
<GrueMaster> So much is broken (at least for me).
<GrueMaster> Server images are fine.  Desktop....
<ogra_> desktop up to date from a week ago works relatively fine here on the ac100
<GrueMaster> Where to start. yesterday's daily omap4.  Oem-config recycles instead of finishing install.   One indicator was flash-kernel not syncing befor umount.
<GrueMaster> Changed flash-kernel, but it doesn't appear to be the only issue.
<infinity> I can't reproduce that looping business. :/
<ogra_> well, there are a bunch of fixes in the archive already but we didnt get images yet
<infinity> (I could reproduce the f-k thing, and it's fixed)
<GrueMaster> Enabled debugging in oem-config only increases the useless messaging by 10-20x.  Still no failure indicator, except now it crashes.
<ogra_> the looping wont happen if oem-config is uninstalled at the right timwe
<ogra_> so thats a moot bug
<GrueMaster> So why isn't it uninstalling?
<ogra_> since the deinstallation shoudl be fixed now
<ogra_> preseed issue
<GrueMaster> But there was no indication.
<GrueMaster> Nothing in recent logs.
<ogra_> inifnity fixed it
<ogra_> in live-build i think
<GrueMaster> If that was the oem-config-gtk, it is in yesterday's image.
<infinity> Yeah.
<infinity> But you won't get to oem-config-remove if oem-config is crashing for you.
<ogra_> was that supposed to be fixed in yesterdays ?
<infinity> So, that might still need investigation.
<ogra_> oh
<ogra_> indeed
<GrueMaster> And I still don't know why oem-config is crashing.
<GrueMaster> I have looked through every log.
<NCommander> anything else?
<ogra_> not from me
<GrueMaster> At any rate, other issues I have been seeing are sound (analog audio device renamed from SDP4430 to Panda in the kernel without alsaucm conf files being updated).  And I haven't been able to get much further in daily testing.
<GrueMaster> Nothing else here.
<ogra_> well, and dont expect images for the next two days given the upload rate
<GrueMaster> I don't expect images until Tuesday, earliest.
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> i guess sat or sun images should work again
 * GrueMaster won't hold his breath.
<ogra_> indeed and i didnt mean to ask you to work on sat or sun :)
<GrueMaster> If they are there, I may give them a cursory glance over morning coffee.
<infinity> GrueMaster: The audio device name was reverted.
<ogra_> s/was/is just being/
<GrueMaster> infinity: I know.  I am just reporting it for the meeting minutes.
<infinity> I'll stick with was, I accpted that last night!
<GrueMaster> I am actively in that discussion even now during the meeting.
<infinity> Heh.
<ogra_> infinity, well, reading the #ubuntu-arm backlog it is just being changed
<GrueMaster> And until it is in an image, the issue remains open.
<ogra_> anyway
<ogra_> NCommander, move :)
<NCommander> [topic] Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
<infinity> Oh, nevermind, the revert last night was DRM names.  I guess we're changing drivers all over the place. :P
 * rsalveti waves
<rsalveti> guess the main things we have to report are kind at ubuntu already :-)
<rsalveti> the work on the tilt tree, to make it work with 4460
<rsalveti> new u-boot-linaro release, fixing 4430 ES2.0 and bringing support for 4460
<rsalveti> libjpeg-turbo is now at the archive
<rsalveti> other than that we have a release today
<rsalveti> and plan to start moving to oneiric next week already
<rsalveti> that's most from my side
<GrueMaster> rsalveti: What changes to u-boot are there on the beagle side?  Is it just to sync the source tree?
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: boot timeout is now 2 secs
<rsalveti> and generally just code sync with upstream
<GrueMaster> Ah, good.
<GrueMaster> 10 seconds was a bit excessive.
<NCommander> anything else, we're almost out of time
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
 * ogra_ has something
<ogra_> since we have our own ARM track at UDS again now ... and will have to give a summaryx at the end again ...
<ogra_> which always costed us half the day to collect on friday ... davidm thought it would be good if we had a closing meeting every day after the last session
<NCommander> I'll be working at putting together a draft of all server blueprints based off the PBLueprintIdeas Page
<ogra_> so everyone will have to write down stuff about the sessions he was in at end of the day
<ogra_> tahts all ... just wanted to announce that
<janimo> ok
<NCommander> closing the meeting out in 3
<NCommander> 2
<NCommander> 1
<NCommander> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 29 15:55:01 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-29-15.00.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-30
<amithkk> msg NickSerb
<amithkk> gf
<ogra_> âªâ¬âªâ¬âªâ¬âªâ¬âªâ¬
<ogra_> ^^--- hold music :)
<charlie-tca> neat!
 * charlie-tca waves
<pitti> hello
 * stgraber waves
<jibel> o/
<josimba_> hi
<skaet> hiya
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology`> Meeting started Fri Sep 30 15:01:49 2011 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<skaet> [TOPIC] Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> Agenda can be found: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-09-30
<skaet> .
<skaet> We're now in Final Freeze for Main and the Seeded Universe.  Thank you for all the fixes that have been submitted over this last week!  :)   Only high/critical fixes necessary to release the images will be accepted now.
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> .
<skaet> Based on discussions last week in this meeting the archive is remaining frozen now for the remainder of the cycle.   Please ping a release team member on #ubuntu-release if a high/critical bug fix for main or one of the seeded universe packages needs shepherding through if its been sitting there for more than 12 hours.
<skaet> Key dates:
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<skaet> 11.10 Final Freeze:  Sept 29 at 2100 UTC.
<skaet> 11.10 Non Language Pack Translation Deadline:  Sept 29 at 2100 UTC
<skaet> 11.10 Language Pack Translation Deadline:  Oct 6 at 1200 UTC
<skaet> 11.10 Unseeded Universe Freeze Oct 11 at 1200 UTC  (more discussion at end of meeting )
<skaet> 11.10 Release Date: October 13, 2011
<skaet> .
<skaet> For those who want to see what bugs are showing up on the release list during the upcoming weeks,  we'll be focusing on resolving or documenting:
<skaet> [LINK] http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-mgr-o-tracking-bugs.html
<skaet> If you see a package being looked at against the wrong team,  let me or one of the defect analysts know, and we'll adjust,  also,  some won't fix bugs are still showing up with the status of the package rather than the oneiric specific task, these will be moved off the list shortly.
<skaet> Would also like to request all the flavor product leads take a pass through
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/ReleaseManifest
<skaet> and confirm the details are accurate for their images.
<skaet> questions?
<skaet> ..
 * skaet thanks ogra for playing hold music ;)
<pitti> sorry, I'm not sure that I'm connected, do you read me?
<skaet> yes pitti,  we see you.
<skaet> or at least I do ;)
 * skaet doesn't see questions 
<skaet> on to round table.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<mlegris> [Week 39 Testing Report]
<mlegris> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/week39_2011.html
<mlegris> .
<mlegris> Beta 2 Testing
<mlegris> * Testing went well, the majority of systems passed.
<mlegris> Bugs:
<mlegris> * Â Bug #810145 - unity-panel-service crashes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 810145 in unity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGABRT in __kernel_vsyscall()" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/810145
<mlegris> Any questions?
<mlegris> ..
<skaet> Thanks mlegris!   glad there doesn't seem to be any blockers from the Cert side to worry about.
<mlegris> np skaet!
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA team update -  jibel
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> = Weekly QA Activity =
<jibel> This week was dedicated to testing, troubleshooting and finding test cases for populars crashes.
<jibel> We spent time on testing Wubi disk image installation too.
<jibel> Major issues identified have been added to the release manager bug tracking report.
<jibel> = Bug Activity =
<jibel> * New bugs opened during last week (no dups): 1758(+22.00 % over previous week)
<jibel>  Top 5 packages with bugs opened during the week:
<jibel>   * unity: 89 (5.06%)
<jibel>   * linux: 48 (2.73%)
<jibel>   * software-center: 43 (2.45%)
<jibel>   * nautilus: 37 (2.10%)
<jibel>   * banshee: 30 (1.71%)
<jibel> * 26 reports are regressions. Top 3:
<jibel>   * software-center: 3
<jibel>   * unity: 2
<jibel>   * nautilus: 1
<jibel> The following are in status 'New':
<jibel> 62970	abiword crashed with SIGABRT in PD_Document::areListUpdatesAllowed()
<jibel> 858684	aptd crashed with TypeError in _on_status_update(): not all arguments converted during string formatting
<jibel> 862677	Can no longer create IMAP folders
<jibel> 861339	compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in nux::WindowCompositor::RenderTopViews()
<jibel> 863093	Function keys for volume not working as expected
<jibel> 862662	No busy cursor when opening files
<jibel> 862609	seahorse-plugins gone in Oneiric
<jibel> 858543	software-center crashed with DBusException in _medium_required(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: Method "Cancel" with signature "" on interface "org.debian.apt.transaction" doesn't exist
<jibel> 862686	software-center crashed with UnicodeDecodeError in _show_transaction_failed_dialog(): 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc4 in position 14: ordinal not in range(128)
<jibel> * Top 3 packages with High/Critical bugs opened and reported this week:
<jibel>   * unity: 4
<jibel>   * compiz: 4
<jibel>   * lightdm: 2
<jibel> * Top 3 crashers of the week:
<jibel>   * software-center: 34 (79.07 %)
<jibel>   * unity: 28 (31.46 %)
<jibel>   * unity-2d: 20 (86.96 %)
<jibel> * Top 3 packages that need triage (based on the number of untouched reports)
<jibel> * Top 3 packages that need triage (based on the number of untouched reports)
<jibel>   * unity: 34 (38.20 %)
<jibel>   * software-center: 27 (62.79 %)
<jibel>   * banshee: 11 (36.67 %)
<josimba_> He said he was reporting it for another coworker and couldn't give any details
<jibel> = Boot speed =
<josimba_> He then said he had to go but could be reached in 20 mins for more details
<jibel> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/boot-speed/
<jibel> (should be updated the todays data really soon)
<skaet> :)
<jibel> any question ?
<jibel> ..
<skaet> Thanks jibel!
<skaet> I was seeing software-center showing up a bit on more than usual on the high/critical bugs this week too.   Will do some extra follow up there.
<jibel> I looked at it, and clearly there are quite a lot of bugs that need triage in software-center
<skaet> jibel,  the bugs that are in New state, are the respective team's defect analysts and project leads aware directly,  or only through this meeting?
 * skaet trying to figure out how to get those New ones sorted quickly.
<Ursinha> bdmurray, ^
<jibel> skaet, that's on defect analyst's plate
<jibel> I'll see we pedro for software center.
<skaet> jibel,  looks like Ursinha, bdmurray are aware now ;)
<skaet> Thanks!
<skaet> :)
<skaet> any other questions for jibel?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Security team update - jdstrand
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> hi
<skaet> :)
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> Burn down is below the trend line. The remaining work items are not tied to the release schedule. I have only one MIR left requiring a security team audit.
<jdstrand> One bug worth highlighting is bug #849027, but I see today that pitti is looking at it (thanks!). Bug #851986 has been deferred to SRU. Looking at the other oneiric bugs, there aren't any others worth highlighting.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 849027 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "lightdm does not provide an equivalent to the gdm guest session AppArmor profile" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/849027
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 851986 in evince (Ubuntu Oneiric) "use of Ux in ubuntu-* abstractions and profiles is too lenient and should be improved" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851986
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet> Thanks jdstrand! :)  questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel team update - ogasawara
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel team update - ogasawara
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for Oneiric Final is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-kernel-tasks.html
<ogasawara> We uploaded linux-3.0.0-12.19 last week to resolve some outstanding bugs prior to release.  We do not foresee any further uploads prior to release.  We are currently below both of our final milestone and overall burndown charts.  The remaining 2 work items are not release critical.
<ogasawara> Of the remaining bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> #480444 - Needs further investigation.
<ogasawara> #542660 - Looks to be related to EFI boot not loading the video bios into ram.
<ogasawara> #557261 - Not a kernel issue, was closed Invalid.
<ogasawara> #710733 - Universe package for debug purposes, not release critical.
<ogasawara> #714862 - Assigned to kernel dev, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #746133 - Assigned to kernel dev, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #754711 - On a 3.0 oneiric kernel, system now suspends but doesn't resume.  further invetigation required.
<ogasawara> #758486 - Told that TI will push a fix with the next BSP.
<ogasawara> #761082 - Confirmed against Oneiric, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #786952 - Patch needs review for SRU possibility.
<ogasawara> #790712 - The order 5 allocation seems to be bogus and non-fatal; further investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #814325 - Issue confirmed upstream, further investigation required.
<ogasawara> #818177 - Comments and investigation indicate this is a udev issue, not kernel. investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #820466 - Fix Released in alsa-utils.
<ogasawara> #836250 - Assigned to kernel dev, performance tests indicate environmental factors.
<ogasawara> #760131 - Fix Released Oneiric, SRU Fix Committed for Natty.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara!
<skaet> Can all kernel bugs on the list be considered oneiric-updates now?  or is there anything on the must fix for release list?
<ogasawara> I don't think anything on the list is release critical so would agree they could be considered for oneiric-updates now
<skaet> thanks
<skaet> [TOPIC] Foundations team update - cjwatson
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> We've wontfixed a number of bugs which aren't showstoppers and have no chance of being fixed for 11.10.  Shout if you disagree with one of these changes.
<cjwatson> The important ones that remain:
<cjwatson> Bug 553745 / bug 849414: We are getting moderately desperate here for somebody who is experiencing this and who can actually help us debug it.  If you're hitting this, please contact Steve!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553745 in plymouth (Ubuntu Maverick) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553745
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 849414 in plymouth (Ubuntu Oneiric) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/849414
<cjwatson> Bug 745960: stgraber has handed this back to me for further investigation.  Will have another go next week ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745960 in grub2 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Cannot boot grub after installing to LVM" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745960
<cjwatson> Bug 779382: Code written and nearly works, although this may end up being an SRU.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 779382 in unity (Ubuntu Natty) "update-notifier not visible under unity" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779382
<cjwatson> Bug 818177: Slow progress; now actually seeing a firehose of relevant data.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818177 in udev (Ubuntu Oneiric) "boot failures caused by udev race" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818177
<cjwatson> Bug 833783: Ball currently in the server team's court for debugging.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833783 in udev (Ubuntu Oneiric) "boot failure: can't open /root/dev/console: no such file" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833783
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> Thanks cjwatson!
<pitti> has been ages since I've seen a plymouth crash; are we still getting new reports for this?
<cjwatson> yes, the odd one
<cjwatson> it's definitely a lot better than it was; but the nature of the crash is that it is racy
<cjwatson> unfortunately most of the bug comments are from people who turn up with "me too" reports but don't actually give us the information we need
 * skaet adds plymouth to list with software-center for some follow up. :/
<skaet> [TOPIC] Server team update - Daviey
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server team update - Daviey
<Daviey> hello!
<Daviey> Burndown:
<Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<Daviey> It seems we made it!
<Daviey> Overview of bugs being tracked which are pertinent to release:
<Daviey>  - http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> If there are any not present, please let me know as soon as possible.  Thanks
<Daviey> Detail:
<Daviey> bug 861260 nova-common upgrade fails with runing lxc instances
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 861260 in nova (Ubuntu) "nova-common upgrade fails with runing lxc instances" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861260
<Daviey>   # Fix attached, to be including in the next nova upload
<Daviey> bug 832159	lxc: get-console-output does not work
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832159 in nova (Ubuntu Oneiric) "lxc: get-console-output does not work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832159
<Daviey>   # Fix attached, pending scrutiny from upstream trunk.  Should be included in the next upload.
<Daviey> bug 801494	Multi part LVM layout: system fails to boot due to missing volumes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 801494 in Ubuntu "Multi part LVM layout: system fails to boot due to missing volumes" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801494
<Daviey>   # Possibly a duplicate of bug 818177
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818177 in udev (Ubuntu Oneiric) "boot failures caused by udev race" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818177
<Daviey> bug 832507	console.log grows indefinitely
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832507 in nova (Ubuntu) "console.log grows indefinitely" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832507
<Daviey>   # (Security Bug) Fix attached, pending scruitiny from upstream trunk before including in next upload
<Daviey> bug 842845	problems starting multiple lxc instances concurrently
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 842845 in nova (Ubuntu Oneiric) "problems starting multiple lxc instances concurrently" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842845
<Daviey>   # Possible resolution in libvirt, awaiting approval from libvirt
<Daviey> bug 850880	cobbler-ubuntu-import does not pull from -updates
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 850880 in cobbler (Ubuntu Oneiric) "cobbler-ubuntu-import does not pull from -updates" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850880
<Daviey>   # Universe package, fix soon avaliable.
<Daviey> bug 861547	/usr/sbin/ietadm is missing in /etc/sudoers.d/nova_sudoer
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 861547 in nova (Ubuntu Oneiric) "/usr/sbin/ietadm is missing in /etc/sudoers.d/nova_sudoers" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861547
<Daviey>   # Fix merged, awaiting upload
<Daviey> bug 862816	/var/log/nova/* is world-readable
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 862816 in nova (Ubuntu Oneiric) "/var/log/nova/* is world-readable" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/862816
<Daviey>   # Security issue, fix avaliable soon.
<Daviey> bug 862844	Glance config files and logs are world-readable
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 862844 in glance (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Glance config files and logs are world-readable" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/862844
<Daviey>   # As above
<Daviey> bug 836922	swift-ring-builder exit status confusing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 836922 in swift (Ubuntu Oneiric) "swift-ring-builder exit status confusing" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/836922
<Daviey>   # Pending cherry pick from upstream trunk
<Daviey> bug 818177, is causing us great concern.
<Daviey> The ISO should now be shipping Orchestra enlistment support, and requires testing.
<Daviey> I belive that is EOM.
<Daviey> ..
<Daviey> Any questions?
<skaet> Thanks Daviey. :)
<Daviey> Oh, someone please ask me a question.
<skaet> I thought libvirt was already submitted by jdstrand?
<Daviey> skaet: This is /another/ issue.
<Daviey> jdstrands fix is Fix Released
<skaet> ah,  ok.  :)
<Daviey> hallyn is working on the other fix.
 * skaet will study list in more detail after meeting.  
<Daviey> We Are trying to get fixes upstreamed before including them, where pratical.
 * skaet doesn't see any other questions.... moving on.
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team update
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM team update
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team update - ogra_
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM team update - ogra_
<ogra_> = Full Status is at: =
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Summary =
<ogra_>  - Plenty of arm desktop image bugs were identified over the last week and got fixed
<ogra_>  - Banshee (or mono overall) sadly stopped working, bug 857299 is being researched by NCommander currently, but if we cant fix it in time consensus is to switch back to rhythmbox.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 857299 in banshee (Ubuntu) "banshee window remain white on startup on pandaboard" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857299
<ogra_>  - mx5 images could finally get tested, the install and booting are very slow, the regular system works fine though.
<ogra_>  - OMAP 4460 support in kernel and bootloader landed this week (thanks linaro !).
<ogra_>  - work is still going on on partman-uboot but it is not clar it will make it in time, worst case we will have to release-note it.
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Image Status =
<ogra_>  - Desktop images suffer from archive skew (as expected around freeze time)
<ogra_>  - Server images (same status)
<ogra_>  - Netboot images (suffer from 806751)
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Specs =
<ogra_>  - Entire http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm.html
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Critical Bugs =
<ogra_>  - 806751 Boot partition on SD is too small on omap/omap4 with guided install
<ogra_>  - 857299 Banshee does not start
<ogra_> thats all :)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogra_ ! :)   when do you expect to start getting usable images from the archive?
<ogra_> well, infinity was optimistic and fired just off a build :)
<ogra_> before he went to bed
<ogra_> so with luck, later tonight
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> ogra_, goodness.  :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro update - rsalveti
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro update - rsalveti
<fabo> :)
<rsalveti> hey
<rsalveti> fabo knows it all
<skaet> :)
<fabo> I'll take it from here ;)
<skaet> sorry,  meant to have an "or" in there
<fabo> = Developer Platform =
<rsalveti> first, and most important, our release is out! \o/
<fabo>  - Linaro 11.09 released - https://wiki.linaro.org/Cycles/1109/Release
<fabo> - work on the TI LT tree to make it work with OMAP 4460
<fabo>  - u-boot-linaro 2011.09.5 released, fixing OMAP 4430 ES2.0 and bringing support for OMAP 4460
<fabo>  - libjpeg-turbo is now at the archive - Thanks to ScottK and pitti
<fabo>  - plan to switch to Oneiric based images
<fabo> --
<fabo> = Infrastructure =
<fabo>  -  linaro-image tools updated to 2011.09 in the archive - Thanks to ogra_
<fabo> ..
<fabo> that's all :)
<ogra_> me ?
<skaet> Thanks fabo!  :)
 * ogra_ cant remember uploading that ... i must be getting old ...
<skaet> any questions for linaro?
<ogra_> (i uploaded libjpeg-turbo though, i think you got that mixed up)
<fabo> ogra_: oups was for ljt :)
<ogra_> ..
<fabo> too much people involved in libjpeg-turbo ;)
<fabo> ..
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Team update  - pitti
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Team update  - pitti
<pitti> Packaged final GNOME 3.2 release. Mostly translation updates, but a few really good bug fixes, too.
<pitti> Lots of bug fixing, RC and otherwise.
<pitti> Unfortunately the stream of UIF/FF exception requests from DX/design does not really cease, we got the music search scope, new font, launcher rearrangements etc. in after much discussion. Unfortunately some of the unity changes are buggy, so we'll most likely need another upload.
<pitti> As usual, RC bug status is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs
<pitti> and for jdstrand's and my own mental sanity, I just uploaded a fix for bug 849027
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 849027 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "lightdm does not provide an equivalent to the gdm guest session AppArmor profile" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/849027
<pitti> ..
<jdstrand> \o/
<skaet> Thanks pitti!
 * jdstrand hugs pitti
<pitti> fix is rather large, but the profile has been tested thoroughly through gdm-guest-session already
<skaet> any ETA on the next unity drop?
<dbarth_> we're lining up fixes
<pitti> I don't know, I'm afraid
<dbarth_> we can release either beginning of next week or at the next weekly upload window
<pitti> beginning of next weeks sounds good, to get it into the RC
<skaet> dbarth_, beginning of next week please.
<dbarth_> ok
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
<dbarth_> tuesday latest? we already have 5 bugs in progress, 1 fix
<dbarth_> ok, so for the report: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/OneiricReleaseStatus
<dbarth_> it mentions the last releases we made and the bug fix counter
<pitti> Tue is fine, I think
<dbarth_> other than that
<dbarth_> the main change was the integration of the compiz stack mgmt code to fix the stacking problems
<dbarth_> music lens with scope support (thanks again)
<dbarth_> multi-monitor issues plugged gradually, in particular also with the patch limiting resolution selection
<dbarth_> we're facing a massive increase in bug reports and have lined up more engineers to deal with triaging tasks
<dbarth_> ..
<pitti> o/
<skaet> Thanks dbarth_!  go pitti
<dbarth_> the bug radar list is still being updated as i speak
<pitti> dbarth: do you know if a fix for bug 849732 is planned? It breaks keybindings rather badly. It's inconvenient enough for normal users, but a real disaster for a11y, I figure
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 849732 in unity-2d "Alt + <application menubar shorcut> doesn't work as well as Ctrl + W/Q" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/849732
<dbarth_> pitti: not yet
<dbarth_> we know where it happens at least, but ted needs to look into that fix next
<skaet> dbarth_, as you update the bugs,  could you please indicate the ones that have no chance of making the tuesday drop, and we'll want to SRU by marking them as oneiric-updates?   would like to get the must watch list pruned down to reasonable level.
<dbarth_> it's the highest on his priority list now; but i'm concerned about the eds issue taking 100% of the cpu and that might need his attention as well
<dbarth_> ok
<skaet> thanks
<dbarth_> we'd have to split that sru0 list or so; i think i'll add a tag instead; but yes
<skaet> ok,  will get with you on monday then to discuss a bit further.
 * skaet looks around for any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
 * skaet not seeing ScottK in channel,  moving on.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Team update - stgraber
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Edubuntu Team update - stgraber
<ScottK> \o
<stgraber> Hi everyone!
<stgraber> Edubuntu looks pretty good, all the remaining bits have been uploaded yesterday and hopefully we won't have to do much last minute fixing.
<stgraber> I'm now working on getting WebLive running on Oneiric so we can have it online on release day, quite a few issues to work around but should be ready by Monday.
<stgraber> We also still need to update our install documentation, our screenshots and prepare the release anouncement, will do so next week.
<stgraber> And that's it!
<stgraber> ..
<stgraber> Questions?
<skaet> Thanks stgraber!   :)  will coord about the announces, etc. next week.
 * skaet goes back to Kubuntu now..
<ScottK> In general, we are in good shape for release.  The switch to kmail2 this cycle is not going well.  Lot's of upgrade issues and user unhappiness.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<ScottK> We've been pushing bugfix updates of akonadi/kdepimlibs/kdepim/kdepim-runtime to try and make the best of it.
<ScottK> We'll almost certainly want a zero day SRU too.
<ScottK> (and more after that)
<ScottK> We kind of got stuck by upstream on this, but hopefully getting it in the hands of users will get upstream enough feedback 4.8 will be better for "P".
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> Thanks ScottK!   and ack about the 0-day SRU. :/
<skaet> please milestone any bugs not able to make it in now, as oneiric-updates, so we can track them.
<skaet> (or rather,  not worry about chasing them down next week)
<ScottK> Also expect the world's longest release note.
<ScottK> They may not all be in LP as we try to push users to bugs.kde.org to file these bugs as much as possible.
<skaet> Ok,  I'll be posting the framework either this afternoon or monday, so you can compose as you go.
<ScottK> We're still using the ubuntu-release-notes project for release note material, right?
<skaet> ScottK,  yes, its one of the mechanisms.    But there is overlap with prior releases so its not the only one.
<ScottK> OK
 * skaet will try to prune out the cruft from past releases early next week.
<skaet> any questions for ScottK?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> We would like to think we are in pretty good shape now
<charlie-tca> I see the Alternate amd64 image is slightly oversize, but that is not an issue. We can remove a language pack to get it sized
<charlie-tca> We have done many bug fixes this week, and also wrote a patch for lightdm.
<charlie-tca> lightdm now works for all flavors
<czajkowski> c
<charlie-tca> I don't have any significant issues at this time.
<charlie-tca> Any questions?
<charlie-tca> ..
<skaet> Thanks charlie-tca.    glad to hear that lightdm concern have gotten sorted.  :)
 * charlie-tca nods
<skaet> [TOPIC] Lubuntu Team update - gilir
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lubuntu Team update - gilir
<gilir> hi :)
<skaet> :)
<gilir> Last week, we had several fixes for very old issues (apt-xapian-index, boot menu not translated, headers not installed properly), thanks to people who help on them :)
<gilir> Also, with the beta 2, we had several testing reports, very complete.
<gilir> With them, we found several bugs which was out of our radar.
<gilir> The most annoying one is a random boot failure of the desktop ISO (bug 854837)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854837 in casper (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu live image boots to TTY" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854837
<gilir> I'll greatly appreciate if an expert of casper/ISO boot process can have a look at it, to see what information is needed to debug this.
<gilir> Also, bug 820080 is still here, but a fix seems available, it would be very nice if it can be pushed for the final release :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 820080 in libappindicator "broken fallback icons for indicators" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820080
<gilir> ..
<skaet> Thanks gilir!
<skaet> if the fix for 820080 can be uploaded, we can see about getting it reviewed.
<skaet> I'll also make a note of the casper bug in my lists.
<skaet> any questions for gilir?
<skaet> [TOPIC] MOTU Team update - tumbleweed
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU Team update - tumbleweed
<skaet> or Laney?
 * skaet notices that both seem to be marked away today.
<skaet> not sure we have quorum for the next topic then either.
<skaet> which would have been the Unseeded Universe Freeze
<skaet> Will keep the discussion on the list, and try to get the summary mailed out shortly to the wider development lists.  (and process pages updated)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Any other business?
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business?
<ScottK> \o
<skaet> go ScottK
<ScottK> I hope you know you're signed up to hit the release timing to the second: http://www.thisisthecountdown.com/
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> ???
 * skaet goes to look
<ScottK> Not sure who did that.
<charlie-tca> to the second?
<skaet> Thanks for flagging ScottK...   appreciate knowing about it now, and plan to do some digging.  :P
<ScottK> It at least isn't obviously a Canonical domain, so no idea who's behind it.
 * skaet has another task on her list for the afternoon it seems.  
 * skaet looks around for other questions?
<skaet> Thanks mlegris, jibel, jdstrand, ogaswara, cjwatson, Daviey, ogra_, fabo, pitti, dbarth_ ScottK, stgraber, charlie-tca, gilir!
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology`> Meeting ended Fri Sep 30 16:12:47 2011 UTC.
<meetingology`> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-30-15.01.moin.txt
<charlie-tca> skaet: thank you.
<stgraber> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-01
<chilicuil> +
<tornado> Ñ
<tornado> Ð²ÑÐµÐ¼ Ð¿ÑÐ¸Ð²ÐµÑ
<tornado> Hi ^)
<tornado> =)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-24
<bootlkjkgf> mornin' All
<tumbleweed> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung> o/
<Laney> hallo!
<micahg> o/
<tumbleweed> well, that's quorate, not that we have anything on the agenda
<smartboyhw> Oh what does !dmb-ping do/
 * stgraber waves
<tumbleweed> it pings the developer membership board members
<tumbleweed> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 24 14:05:42 2012 UTC.  The chair is tumbleweed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<tumbleweed> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:  Review of previous action items
<tumbleweed> #subtopic laney to delete network-manager packageset
<tumbleweed> I assume that's blocked on my LP branch
<Laney> yeah, that
<Laney> how's that going
<Laney> ?
<tumbleweed> nobody is reviewing it
<Laney> naughty OCR?
<micahg> tumbleweed: have you tried to get someone in #launchpad-dev to review it?
<Laney> or nobody likes to touch soyuz?
<tumbleweed> the soyuz problem
<bdrung> nobody want's to touch the old Russian technology? ;)
<tumbleweed> rick_h punted to wgrant or SteveK, but neither of them have looked at i tyet
<Laney> cjwatson: are you able to review LP MPs? ;-)
<cjwatson> Laney: No
<cjwatson> Laney: Nagging #launchpad-dev generally works for me
<Laney> apparently there's some kind of fear factor
<Laney> so it should be more targetted
 * tumbleweed shall nag harder
<tumbleweed> it's a *trivial* patch
<cjwatson> Laney: Like I say, it works for me for my extremely Soyuz-heavy MP distribution
<cjwatson> Sure, the odd reviewer gives
<cjwatson> up
<cjwatson> But I've had plenty of reviewers other than William and Steve deal with my patches as well
<tumbleweed> I need feedback on style and deletion semantics more than anything else
<tumbleweed> anyway, that's blocking all the action items, that I can see
<tumbleweed> except
<tumbleweed> #subtopic stgraber to add ppu for lexical to fwts
<tumbleweed> done, according to the minutes
<stgraber> yep
<tumbleweed> so
<tumbleweed> #topic any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:  any other business
<bdrung> do we want to discuss libreoffice?
<bdrung> who will be at the UDS?
<micahg> o/ for AOB
 * tumbleweed will
 * bdrung will be (thanks to being sponsored)
<tumbleweed> (yeah, that)
<micahg> we actually won't have a meeting scheduled for UDS this time :)
<Laney> everyone?!
<Laney> that's sad :(
<Laney> the UDS meetings are fun
<stgraber> I'll be there
<micahg> we can still meet to plan though :)
<bdrung> do we want a meeting?
 * xnox a bunch of rebels
<Laney> #vote ban xnox
<Laney> +1
<Laney> :-)
 * xnox told you so
<tumbleweed> +1 on UDS meetings being fun
 * xnox probably will be banned now....
<bdrung> tumbleweed: then let's schedule one
<stgraber> I'm sure we can arrange a special DMB meeting for any applicant at UDS :)
<tumbleweed> do we also want a private UDS meeting?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: prepared to organise it?
 * micahg would actually prefer to keep the extra sessions to a minimum as UDS is only 4 days this time around (well, time permitting, sure, why not)
<stgraber> however, if we do, I'd prefer we don't have another meeting to discuss the DMB itself as UDS is a day shorter and I'm pretty sure my list of stuff to discuss won't be...
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i will be on vacation tomorrow
 * stgraber is always happy to discuss DMB stuff over lunch though
<tumbleweed> well, what's more important to us then?
<tumbleweed> applicants?
<stgraber> I don't think we really have that many stuff to discuss outside of applicants. So I think we should schedule one public meeting. If we have applicants, we'll take them, if we don't, we'll discuss DMB stuff for an hour
<tumbleweed> works for me
<bdrung> me too
<tumbleweed> I suspect we'll be doing some hallway discussion on PPU issues
<tumbleweed> #action tumbleweed to schedule a DMB session at UDS
<meetingology> ACTION: tumbleweed to schedule a DMB session at UDS
<tumbleweed> micahg: you had something?
<micahg> yeah
<micahg> so, the issue came up last week that a docs team member couldn't upload docs for a derivative even thought the docs are owned by the docs team, I was wondering if we should be proactive here and create a docs packageset and invite people to apply for it
<micahg> (someone with upload rights to ubuntu-docs already)
<bdrung> sounds good
<stgraber> well, in most cases flavours have a completely separate doc team from ~ubuntu-docs, so not having upload rights makes sense...
<ogra_> sudo sync
<ogra_> oops
<micahg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ doesn't agree :)
<tumbleweed> if there are people who need this, I'd say invite the applicants, but no need to create the packageset until we have a member
<bdrung> +1 for tumbleweed's suggestion
<micahg> tumbleweed: right, yeah, was thinking to discuss with the person in question and if desired have a formal application proposed
<tumbleweed> ok
 * micahg guesses that's not what he originally said, but makes more sense
<tumbleweed> anything else?
<bdrung> no
<tumbleweed> next chair
<tumbleweed> stgraber: I guess
<micahg> date of next meeting?
<bdrung> October, 8th according to our plan
<micahg> Oct 8 is a legal holiday in US and CA
<stgraber> I won't be there on the 8th
 * micahg neither
<stgraber> IIRC both barry and cody-somerville said they wouldn't either
<tumbleweed> tsk tsk - it's a public holiday here today (national braai day)
<tumbleweed> ok, so Oct 22nd
<stgraber> tumbleweed: yeah, the fact that it's a public holiday doesn't really matter to me, it's more the fact that I'll be coming back from a conference and preparing a trip to Europe ;)
<bdrung> i will be there on Oct. 8th
 * tumbleweed can make the 8th
<Laney> can't we just have it on the 15th?
<micahg> and then another meeting on the 22nd?
<Laney> no
<micahg> push off a week so we can have one at UDS ;)
<micahg> (that was a question)
<Laney> a happy ending for all
<bdrung> i should be able to attend on the 15th
<Laney> just shift by a week
<tumbleweed> as long as we don't clash with the techboard
<stgraber> 15th would work, though I'd appreciate if we can shift it back post-UDS as otherwise we risk getting in conflicts with the TB meeting
<Laney> silly TB
<micahg> well, the meetings are only supposed to be 1 hr
<stgraber> (oh, and I also kinda like "working" on Mondays so if I can avoid having 2 hours worth of IRC meetings on the same day, that'd be nice ;))
 * micahg already has that :)
<stgraber> yeah, I have that on Wednesdays, so not looking forward to having more of that ;)
<tumbleweed> 15th, UDS, back to the normal schedule?
 * bdrung agrees
<stgraber> sounds good
<tumbleweed> done
<tumbleweed> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 24 14:38:23 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-24-14.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-24-14.05.html
<micahg> well, that still gives us 2 weeks in a row (UDS, post UDS)
<tumbleweed> if we have no applicants, we can skip one
<micahg> should we skip the post UDS meeting?
<stgraber> I don't mind two weeks in a row if we have applicants
<bdrung> micahg: depends on the amount of applications
<Laney> decide then
<micahg> right, that (enough applicants) would be a nice problem to have I guess
<jdstrand> o/
<mdeslaur> o/
<jjohansen> \o
<sarnold> \o/
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 24 18:02:06 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I think I am done with the audits for the time being. there are a couple left, but they aren't important. maybe we can use those later for training on uaudit
<jdstrand> which means I can actually get back to helping out with updates
<mdeslaur> \o/
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: seriously :)
<mdeslaur> :)
<jdstrand> in addition to that, I'm on community this week, and plan to train sarnold on UCT
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I just published ghostscript. I have emacs and freeradius to test
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on transmission
<mdeslaur> and will attack the CVE list with a chainsaw after that
<mdeslaur> what's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm trying to finish up eglibc
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: do, or do not, there is no try.
<sbeattie> then I'll move on to focusing on apparmor, starting with the dbus ppa
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me
<sbeattie> micahg, you're up
<micahg> I've got Thunderbird 15.0.1 (this week or we skip it), and I'm trying to finish up webkit for oneiric
 * micahg hugs sbeattie
<micahg> oh, and it's a short week for me (off Wed)
<micahg> that's it for me
<micahg> tyhicks: tag
<tyhicks> I'm finishing up ruby1.9.1 and rubygems. Fought with the test scripts last week and found another issue that I had to roll into the ruby1.9.1 update, so it fell into this week.
<tyhicks> After that, I hope to start on some apparmor work
<tyhicks> if that's not yet ready, I'll try to fit in one more update
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I finally have access to the QA machine where the apparmor QRT failure was happening so I need to look into that.
<jjohansen> /me needs to finish writing up some notes on the current apparmor work and get together with tyhicks and sbeattie on apparmor dbus, and stacking/labeling and get back to debugging stacking.
<jjohansen> or hrmm, continue debugging ...
<jjohansen> that is it for me sarnold your up
<sarnold> I'm finally finished with the generic employee new starter tasks; I've made good progress on the UE/Security new-starter tasks.
<sarnold> this week I'm finishing those up, starting triage, and getting trained on UCT :)
<mdeslaur> sarnold: \o/
<sarnold> I've got a few questions about alioth, but perhaps those should be handled out-of-bounds?
<jdstrand> yeah
<sarnold> okay, then I'm finished :) jdstrand, your turn
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ccid.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libapache2-mod-auth-openid.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/teamspeak-client.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/batmand.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/modsecurity-apache.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> There are a lot of merge opportunities for packages listed in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/. Performing these updates is a great way to help Ubuntu and bolster your developer application.
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: can I have a pony?
 * jdstrand hands mdeslaur a pony
<jdstrand> and with that...
<mdeslaur> \o/
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 24 18:16:06 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-24-18.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-24-18.02.html
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold: thanks!
<sarnold> a pony in every pot?
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
<tyhicks> thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<jdstrand> np
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-25
<phillw> skaet: I hope that email is okay, please feel free to add information to it and correct any inaccuracies.
<phillw> oops, wrong channel
<Daviey> Hola!
<jimbaker> hi!
<Daviey> Ursinha: are you chairing ?
<arosales> Hello
<smb> \p
<jamespage> o/
<Daviey> Did Ursinha chair last week?
<jimbaker> m_3_ chaired last week
<m_3_> hi
 * m_3_ finger on tip of nose
<arosales> Ursinha: you available to chair this week?
<Daviey> Seems she is AWOL.  jimbaker looks like it might be you
<Daviey> is that ok?
<jimbaker> Daviey, oh sure, if someone wants to guide me
<arosales> jimbaker: commands to follow are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting/IRCCommands
<jimbaker> where's the guide to chairing?
<Daviey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting <- agenda
<arosales> we'll be glad to help with content :-)
<jimbaker> ok... well here it goes
<jimbaker> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 25 16:04:44 2012 UTC.  The chair is jimbaker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<adam_g> o/
<jimbaker> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<Daviey> (m_3, were there any actions last week?)
<jimbaker> jamespage, you were to look into aligning release team and server team trackign reports?
<arosales> our logs are looking a little behind https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server
<jamespage> still looking at two reports - that can be dropped
<jimbaker> (i'm just following ye old cut & paste here...)
<arosales> jimbaker: thats the right direction :-)
<jimbaker> were there any other action points i should be aware of?
<jimbaker> seeing none...
<zul> heylo
<jimbaker> #topic Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Quantal Development
<m_3_> Daviey: yes... don't know where they are though
<jimbaker> arosales, you're right, the logs are not there from the last 2 meetings
<arosales> logs from previous meeting are at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-18-16.07.html
<m_3_> did the meeting chair need to do something to make that happen?  #fail
<arosales> or http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-18-16.07.moin.txt
<rbasak> We need a checklist for meeting chairs to follow
<arosales> jamespage look into running server with no elbow-room
<rbasak> At the moment I get the impression that everyone does something slightly different
<hallyn> we have one
<arosales> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#Team_policy under "IRC"
<m_3_> it was great copy/paste command cheatsheet (thanks serge!)
<arosales> rbasak: ^
<rbasak> Aha. thanks!
<jimbaker> rbasak, that's the listing i'm following
<arosales> so to back up one minute before quantal development
<Daviey> Anyone would think this is the first time we've done this....
<arosales> I think we covered jamespage to look into aligning release team and server team trackign reports
 * m_3_ whistles innocently
<arosales> jamespage: any update on running server with no elbow-room
<arosales> and investigate minimum memory requirements for i386 and amd64 server installs
<jamespage> arosales, lots of analysis of actuall install sizes - things have def grown
<jamespage> I'm going to request a document update that they propose we discuss the size targets at UDS
<jamespage> that/then
<jamespage> did any of that make sense?
<jimbaker> jamespage, made eminent sense to me
<jamespage> 1. Update docs to align with current size of installs
<jamespage> 2. discuss at UDS if this needs attention
<arosales> jamespage: do we need to continue investigating min memory for server installs?
<jamespage> arosales, I think cjwatson is looking at that
<jamespage> again I don't really have any objection to increasing the mins in the docs
<jimbaker> jamespage, ok. what about bug 1049582?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1049582 in ceph (Ubuntu) "radosgw crash on armhf architecture" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049582
<arosales> jamespage: ok so perhaps tie that into the doc BP.
<jamespage> testing a fix ATM
<cjwatson> jamespage: yeah, got a kanban card for that which has pretty much risen to the top of my stack
<cjwatson> probably won't fit into b2
<jamespage> cjwatson, I don't think thats an issue
<jamespage> (that it won't fit in b2)
<cjwatson> I have an objection to increasing the minima in the docs before I've had a chance to review and adjust the limits in the software
<cjwatson> fwiw
<cjwatson> because the latter will likely affect the former
<Daviey> cjwatson: Do you have an ETA?
<cjwatson> this week
<cjwatson> (since I anticipate lots of interruptions from b2)
<Daviey> super
<Daviey> thanks
<jimbaker> any other updates on quantal dev? (i will go next otherwise on juju bugs)
<jimbaker> so we have 3 critical bugs in progress on juju, https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju, that i'm working on
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/juju/+milestone/0.6 gives a nice overall picture of the target release we have
<jimbaker> i have identified the underlying problem for 2 out of 3 (openstack token expiry, relation state not found) and the third looks similar to a bug i fixed in juju in the past
<SpamapS> (which, btw, was due yesterday)
<SpamapS> jimbaker: can you mark those as In Progress if you are indeed working on them?
<SpamapS> I plan to start dropping anything not In Progress tomorrow.
<jimbaker> SpamapS, in the sense of, i'm working on too many things, yes :)
<jimbaker> but i will reprioritize them so we can hit that deadline, nothing is big
<SpamapS> jimbaker: we already missed the deadline.. we need to land and ship now and also apply for a FFE for quantal
<jimbaker> SpamapS, understood
<jimbaker> any other release bugs we should be considering at this time?
<hallyn> qxl driver
<hallyn> don't think a bug has been opened yet, but i'll work on it this afternoon (after meeting)
<hallyn> stgraber found that qxl drive is not working right in quantal dvd image
<SpamapS> there's a really nasty bug in lxc
<hallyn> oh?
<SpamapS> we talked about it yesterday
<SpamapS> NS refcount thing
<hallyn> oh.  that's not in lxc
<SpamapS> when it hits, you are screwed, LXC no longer works and you can't even properly reboot
<hallyn> smb is helping coolonely to look into it
<SpamapS> sorry
<SpamapS> kernel
<smb> SpamapS, yep
<hallyn> we can hopefully get an update ina few mins :)
 * SpamapS considers it LXC since LXC is what makes it happen
<hallyn> so would vsftpd
<smb> hallyn, Yes insofar that I cannot say more right now as I just started to think about it today
<jimbaker> good to know we are finding root causes :)
<hallyn> smb: ok
<jimbaker> hallyn, so maybe action item you will file the qxl bug?
<hallyn> jimbaker: k with me
<hallyn> and hopefully resolve it too :)
<jimbaker> #action hallyn files and ideally resolves qxl bug... all in the same day!
<meetingology> ACTION: hallyn files and ideally resolves qxl bug... all in the same day!
<hallyn> me and my big mouth
<jimbaker> SpamapS, same with the lxc bug, so we know it's linked to the namespace (i take it) refcounting?
<hallyn> jimbaker: that has open bug already, on kernel team's hotlist
<smb> bug There are currently (at least) two design/technical decisions which have a quite bad impact on running Ubuntu desktop in a virtual machine:
<smb> 1) Dropping unity2d in favour of unity+llvmpipe. Since there is no way (at least none that is easy to find) to disable playful effects this puts a considerable stress on the emulated cpu(s). On my desktop, which may not be state of the art but used to be usable for running unity2d desktops in VMs, doing even simple tasks is painfully slow. For example it takes about 3s(!) from when a window begins to fade in until it can be used. And the same
<smb>  when minimizing. On that machine I also see a lot of X crashes which might be related to overwhelming the cpus (bug 1056080) since a faster machine does not seem to suffer that badly.
<ubottu> Error: Bug #1056080 is a duplicate of bug #1048304, but it is private (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048304)
<smb> 2) Adding the Amazon search to the dash search (again without any reasonably easy way to disable this). This further puts stress on the cpu(s) and on the same desktop every keypress is delayed about one second (at least). It also adds to network usage (not to mention any privacy or potential parental control issues).
<smb> Those together currently make my experience rather bad. To get anything done within the desktop vm I seem to drag my feet through a pool of mud. And that is just one VM running. Anybody hosting virtual desktops will rip out lots of hair and likely leave for at least the ubuntu-gnome-desktop (classic unaccelerated) which would be rather sad and completely unhelpful in those cases where the ubuntu desktop was used in a VM for testing.
<smb> I can understand that getting rid of a duplicated desktop framework will help to focus on the main unity project. But I think in that case there really should be options that allow to reduce the graphical overhead and the amount of feature overhead in a more user-friendly way.
<smb> oops
<smb> damn multi buffers
<smb> bug 1021471
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1021471 in linux (Ubuntu Quantal) "clone() hang when creating new network namespace (dmesg show unregister_netdevice: waiting for lo to become free. Usage count = 2)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021471
<jimbaker> smb, thanks for the link. actually i was thinking that SpamapS might put it in as a juju lxc provider bug since that's where we are observing it, so we can track as being impacted
<SpamapS> smb: thanks for sharing tho!
<utlemming> smb: I have follow-up on the cloud images
<smb> no worries... sorry for the oversharing
<SpamapS> jimbaker: nah, its all in the kernel.. I don't think we need to track it.
<Daviey> a problem shared is a problem halved
<utlemming> from last week -- about Unity working on the Desktop Images
<jimbaker> SpamapS, cool
<utlemming> short story: the Desktop Cloud images haven't had a desktop sharing solution since Oneiric. And Unity does not work on the desktop images.
<utlemming> er -- unity does not work on the Desktop Cloud Images
<jimbaker> utlemming, is this something actionable as a quantal release bug?
<utlemming> jimbaker: no. The desktop cloud images are not supported. And for R, we're going to have a discussion about them.
<smb> utlemming, As you probably noted from the involuntary ranting above I got somewhat depressed about the current situation running in a VM.
<utlemming> smb: I noticed :)
<jimbaker> utlemming, ok, just checking
<jimbaker> any other bugs to discuss before blueprints subtopic?
<jimbaker> ...
<jimbaker> #subtopic Blueprints
<jimbaker> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/ubuntu-server.html
<Daviey> gah, wrong link - try http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-servercloud-overview.html
<jimbaker> Daviey, thanks...
<jimbaker> zul, any updates on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-qa ?
<zul> jimbaker: no
<jimbaker> m_3_, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-best-practices ?
<jamespage> zul, adam_g: suggest we get together and decide what is going to happen for this cycle
<zul> jamespage: sounds like a plan
<jimbaker> m_3_, seems like there has been been some good mailing list activity re best practices
<m_3_> looks good afaik
<jimbaker> as well as documenting in the spreadsheet that jcastro put together
<m_3_> some local container bugs outstanding (they'll be postponed most likely)
<jimbaker> m_3_, right, just looks like this bp might need some corresponding updating
<m_3_> ack
<jimbaker> rbasak, any updates on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-arm-deployment ?
<rbasak> No updates. I'm still working on MAAS
<jimbaker> rbasak, understood
<jimbaker> SpamapS, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charmstore-maintenance, maintainer assignment is more or less done in place right?
<SpamapS> Yes
<SpamapS> updating
<jimbaker> SpamapS, thanks!
<jimbaker> i'm just looking at the clock and your novice chair is seriously running out of time here. everyone else, please see if you can update your BPs
<jimbaker> any other BPs that should be discussed at this time? otherwise... moving on
<jimbaker> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jimbaker> so i had a good presentation at the boulder big data user meetup - http://www.meetup.com/Boulder-Denver-Big-Data/events/81123992/
<jimbaker> 75 people or so showed up, something like 4 hours all together including presentation and questions before, after
<arosales> Surge coming up on the 27th
<jimbaker> arosales, who will be at surge?
<SpamapS> hazmat
<Daviey> Oct 15 -> 18. Many Ubuntu Server dev's will be at ODS - http://www.openstack.org/summit/san-diego-2012/
<SpamapS> Right, come to san diego, enjoy the beer. :)
<jimbaker> SpamapS, it sounds like a very good plan :)
<Daviey> Oct 29 -> 1st Nov.. UDS in Copenhagen.. Many Openstack dev's attending.
<Daviey> (see what i did there? :)
<zul> surge?
<jimbaker> http://omniti.com/surge/2012
 * Daviey googles on behalf of zul
<Daviey> http://omniti.com/surge/2012
<hallyn> we need a 'tech conference' lens in the dash
<smb> not more lenses... o_O
<jimbaker> oh sure, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=surge :)
<Daviey> jimbaker: can you action hallyn to make a lens ?
<hallyn> NO
<jimbaker> Daviey, i could in fact do that... it would be very cruel however
<hallyn> s'ok i can delegate with the best of em
<jimbaker> maybe what we really want a lens connected to http://lmgtfy.com/
<Daviey> meh, logs can be edited to add it regardless.
<hallyn> eh that looks nice
<jimbaker> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hallyn> oh no it wants js, nm
<hggdh> hello
<hggdh> only thing to note is... it is beta2 week, so help testing is very welcome :-)
<jimbaker> hggdh, thanks for that update
<jimbaker> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Yo!
<smb> * I had been looking at bug 1023755. While I can see one potential
<smb>   problem, I could not reproduce the issue with the provided method.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023755 in linux (Ubuntu) "Precise kernel locks up while dd to /dev/mapper files > 1Gb (was: Unable to delete volume)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023755
<smb> * Trying to also look into bug 1021471 this week. But wanted to
<smb>   complete other tasks before.
<smb>   Eric Biederman indicated two (inline) functions to check for
<smb>   balancing. Unfortunately those are "inline" so I need to build
<smb>   myself a debug kernel to do so.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1021471 in linux (Ubuntu Quantal) "clone() hang when creating new network namespace (dmesg show unregister_netdevice: waiting for lo to become free. Usage count = 2)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021471
<smb> * About bug 1038055: it looks like right now the way to go is to
<smb>   disable the drm qemu driver and go back to have X run by the
<smb>   cirrus driver (and hope it and llvm-pipe go together not too badly).
<smb>   Recent testing showed at least the initial startup crash been gone.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1038055 in linux (Ubuntu) "graphics fail to initialise correctly, in kvm with cirrus graphics (after LUKS install)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1038055
<smb> * While trying to pry some useful data from a Xen dump I pulled a few
<smb>   patches to crash from the Xen mailing list and prepared an updated
<smb>   package: bug 1054200. Though that needs some sponsor/reviewer.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1054200 in crash (Ubuntu) "Pick some upstream patches for Xen" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054200
<smb> and last but not least...
<Daviey> drumroll
<smb> * A certain person on the server team (starting with a capital D)
<smb>   has been cc'ed on a mail in the past that was asking for some
<smb>   patches pulled into the Xen package. While I may volunteer to
<smb>   do the dirty work, I am less inclined to do anything without the
<smb>   backing that this is acceptable at this stage (since some of the
<smb>   patches are introducing features). So as long as afore mentioned
<smb>   person remains silent on this mail exchange, I won't do anything. ;)
<smb> ..
<Daviey> smb: is that me?
<smb> Yessir!
<Daviey> smb: Subject?
 * smb wispers
<Daviey> Ah, LP:1009098 AMD 12.10 Feature: Xen Recommended Patches
<Daviey> thanks
<jimbaker> cool, we are running quite late, so any bug followup with smb should happen outside of this channel
<jimbaker> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<jimbaker> rbasak, any updates here?
<rbasak> Nothing new to report. I'm continuing to work on landing ARM support in MAAS trunk and it is going well. Any questions for me?
<jimbaker> rbasak, sounds good to me, let's just follow up in #ubuntu-server
<jimbaker> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<jimbaker> #topic Next meeting will be at the same time next week on Oct 2
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Next meeting will be at the same time next week on Oct 2
<arosales> Tuesday 2012-10-02 at 1600 UTC
<jimbaker> arosales, thanks for the utc
<arosales> jimbaker: Thanks for chairing :-)
<Daviey> thanks jimbaker, great effort
<jimbaker> thanks everyone, i really just can't wait to do it again ;)
<arosales> :-)
<jimbaker> but i believe the previous chair gets to reserve the right to pick the next one, right?
<hallyn> a new permanent chair!
<jamespage> ta jimbaker
<jimbaker> #action jimbaker picks chair for next meeting on the fly next week!
<meetingology> ACTION: jimbaker picks chair for next meeting on the fly next week!
<arosales> jimbaker: it just goes down the list on the wiki
<jimbaker> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 25 17:00:20 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-25-16.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-25-16.04.html
<arosales> jimbaker: make sure to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#Team_policy under "IRC meeting"
<arosales> thanks again
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jimbaker> arosales, thanks
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 25 17:00:49 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Quantal
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<rtg> o/
<herton> o/
<kamal> o/
<smb> \o
<henrix> o/
<ppisati> o/
<sconklin_> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<cking> o/
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Q/omap4: a new Q/omap4 3.5 kernel is out (3.5.0-211.18) and it contains:
<ppisati> * fixes for /dev/rtc
<ppisati> * an updated kernel rebased on Ubuntu-3.5.0-15.22
<ppisati> /dev/rtc was the last item on my todo list: we are feature complete and
<ppisati> work is concentrating on squashing bugs and closing tickets from now on.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.10-beta-2.html
<ogasawara> || apw         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 3 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara   || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Beta-2 work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have uploaded the 3.5.0-15.23 Quantal kernel.  This upload most
<ogasawara> notably reverts some problematic i915 backlight patches.  This is the
<ogasawara> kernel which we intend to ship with Beta-2.  This has also been uploaded
<ogasawara> to the q-lts-backport [1] PPA to help facilitate testing of the 12.10
<ogasawara> kernel in 12.04.  We welcome anyone to please install, test, and let us
<ogasawara> know your feedback.
<ogasawara> [1] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Sept 27 - Beta 2 (~2 days)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Oct 4 - Kernel Freeze (~1 week)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Oct 9 - Final Freeze (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Oct 18 - 12.10 Final (~3 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin_> == 2012-09-25 (weekly) ==
<sconklin_> Currently we have 42 CVEs on our radar, with 1 CVE retired this week.
<sconklin_> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin_> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin_> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin_> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin_> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin_> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<henrix> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (September 25):
<henrix>  * Hardy - In Preparation; 1 CVEs; (1 commits)
<henrix>  * Lucid - In Preparation; 3 CVEs; (12 commits)
<henrix>  * Oneiric - In Preparation; 2 CVEs; 1 upstream stable release(s); (54 commits)
<henrix>  * Precise - In Preparation; 1 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (234 commits)
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<henrix> Future stable cadence cycles:
<henrix>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 25 17:05:37 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-25-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-25-17.00.html
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury!
<m0nster> hello... im looking for some help
<IdleOne> m0nster: with?
<m0nster> keyboard and mouse not working when i install ubuntu using wubi
<LordOfTime> m0nster, you may want to ask in #ubuntu then
<IdleOne> best place to ask would be #ubuntu
<m0nster> ok thanks
<spineaker> wubi c'est notre ami, il faut l'aimer aussi
<spineaker> (ou pas)
<IdleOne> wubi c'est comme un tattoo, vas grand ou vas tant chez vous :P
 * genii-around tries to understand with his cereal-box french capabilities
<IdleOne> genii-around: care for a translation?
<IdleOne> spineaker said: wubi is our friend, we have to care for it (or not)
<genii-around> IdleOne: My basic take is: wubi is your friend something-something also love
<IdleOne> I said: wubi is like a tattoo, go big or go home :P
<genii-around> Heh
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-26
<tiagoscd> hi :)
<cyphermox> o/
<julian_fern> Hello :)
<Destine> hi.
<tiagoscd> o/
<tiagoscd> membership board now?
<cyphermox> we're all around, won't be long
<tiagoscd> cyphermox: :)
<head_victim> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 26 12:07:12 2012 UTC.  The chair is head_victim. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<head_victim> #voters cyphermox Destine Pendulum head_victim
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine Pendulum cyphermox head_victim
<head_victim> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board meeting for 1200 UTC 26th September 2012. The wiki page for the Review Boards are available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<head_victim> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<head_victim> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<head_victim> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<head_victim> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<head_victim> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<head_victim> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<head_victim> Wow, that looks big all at once
<head_victim> Anyway
<head_victim> #topic Julian Fernandes Ubuntu Membership Application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Julian Fernandes Ubuntu Membership Application
<head_victim> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<head_victim> julian_fern: while we read up on your application can you please introduce yourself to the board
<julian_fern> Hello :)
<julian_fern> My name is Julian Fernandes
<julian_fern> i'm a 20 years old Brazilian WordPress consultant and a LoCo Team leader
<julian_fern> I also work with Nginx and WordPress optimization on Ubuntu Servers
<julian_fern> Talking about myself isn't my strong point, so i think my wiki page says it all :)
<julian_fern> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/julianfernandes
<tiagoscd> I just like to say that julian_fern has done a great job in Brazil, helping many users, writing posts about Ubuntu, speaking in conferences
<Ursinha> he's just too humble to talk about what all he's been doing :)
 * Ursinha is cheering for julian_fern 
<tiagoscd> he keeps a hard and daily work to support Ubuntu Brazilian community
<tiagoscd> as Ubuntu Brazilian Communiyt Council member I strongly endorse his membership
<head_victim> julian_fern: sounds like you have quite the following
<Destine> head_victim, indeed
<head_victim> Are there any details of the events mentioned under contributions (links to event writeups, photos, etc, stuff we can get a feel for the scale of)
<julian_fern> head_victim: yeah, the friendships i made when i joined the Ubuntu community are great :)
<julian_fern> hmmm
<julian_fern> i think we have some photos at our G+ page
<head_victim> julian_fern: the community is what drew me in as well :)
<julian_fern> This is the Latinoware page, the event i'm gonna attend next month: http://2012.latinoware.org/?lang=en
<julian_fern> I will talk about WordPress optimization with Ubuntu Server and the future of gaming on Linux
<julian_fern> i will also be there with Ubuntu-BR, helping users to install Ubuntu and clearing doubts they may have
<tiagoscd> head_victim: in my Picasa you can see some photos about one conference that julian_fern has supported Brazilian community
<tiagoscd> https://picasaweb.google.com/103172290858656490894
<julian_fern> head_victim: i'm the guy with the bad hair :P
<julian_fern> tiagoscd: thanks :)
<court_jester> Is good to remember that Latinoware give sponsorship spots for ubuntu members and Julian is the only non member that was approved for sponsorship.
<head_victim> tiagoscd: thanks for that, which album are we referring to sorry?
<tiagoscd> head_victim: oh sorry, referring about "Ubuntu-BR-SC at SeminÃ¡rio de CiÃªncia e Tecnologia da UDESC" :)
<Ursinha> https://plus.google.com/photos/103172290858656490894/albums/5681554703198893201?banner=pwa
<julian_fern> There is also some more photos at tiagoscd's blog: http://tiagohillebrandt.eti.br/blog/ubuntu-sc-no-seminario-de-ciencia-e-tecnologia-da-udesc.html
<julian_fern> Sadly my blog is offline atm.
<head_victim> No worries, I don't even have a blog :)
<Ursinha> julian_fern, you
<Ursinha> julian_fern, you've been posting a lot to ubuntubrsc.com, it can be considered your blog for now :P
<julian_fern> Ursinha: True, but since me and tiagoscd funded it, i think of it as our blog hehe
<head_victim> Ok seems we have read a lot of stuff and a we're ready to vote :)
<Ursinha> :)
<head_victim> #vote Julian Fernandes Ubuntu Membership Application
<meetingology> Please vote on: Julian Fernandes Ubuntu Membership Application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<head_victim> Please only board members vote (the rest won't be counted)
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<Destine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Destine
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<head_victim> +1 keep up the good work with the BR Team, when you're blog comes back up make sure it gets on the planet
<meetingology> +1 keep up the good work with the BR Team, when you're blog comes back up make sure it gets on the planet received from head_victim
<head_victim> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Julian Fernandes Ubuntu Membership Application
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<tiagoscd> o/
<tiagoscd> congrats julian_fern
<julian_fern> :D
<Ursinha> \o/
<Destine> julian_fern, congrats
<Pendulum> julian_fern: Congrats and welcome!
<head_victim> #accepted Julian Fernandes is now a Ubuntu Member - Congratulations!
<court_jester> Uhul! Congratulations!
<julian_fern> Thanks guys! :)
<Ursinha> woohoo!
<cyphermox> Congrats julian_fern
<julian_fern> I will do my best to help Ubuntu more and more :)
<tiagoscd> :D
<head_victim> julian_fern: well done, your efforts with the Brazil team are commendable. Keep up the great work
<Ursinha> julian_fern, if you keep doing the same, we're all fine ;)
<Ursinha> thanks for helping us out
<court_jester> tiagoscd: Lets write about this in ubuntu-br-sc
<head_victim> I don't think there were any other applications tonight
<tiagoscd> court_jester: http://tiagohillebrandt.eti.br/blog/julian-fernandes-o-mais-novo-membro-ubuntu-no-brasil.html
<tiagoscd> :)
<court_jester> lol
<court_jester> Fast enough
<julian_fern> tiagoscd court_jester ursinha: thanks for the support guys, you are the best! (:
 * Ursinha hugs julian_fern 
<head_victim> Thanks to the supporters, it makes it easier for us to see others providing testimonials for work done :)
<Ursinha> julian_fern, the least I could do :)
<Destine> julian_fern, you have been added to Ubuntu Members team.
<head_victim> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 26 12:36:25 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-26-12.07.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-26-12.07.html
<head_victim> Thanks everyone for attending, thanks julian_fern for the application and we'll see everyone again next month.
<Destine> head_victim, thanks.
<julian_fern> Thank you, head_victim Destine cyphermox Pendulum :)
<julian_fern> Bye.
<smartboyhw> meeting in 5 minutes where is balloons and phillw?:P
<balloons> #startmeeting ubuntu qa community
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 26 14:00:04 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:
<balloons> howdy everyone.. shall we have a roll call?
<smartboyhw> balloons: astraljava is here today to give a heads up I think
<smartboyhw> \o
 * smartboyhw finds out that phillw is not here....
<balloons> well, just us chickens smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> balloons, LOL
<balloons> k, let's dive into the agenda
<balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  Previous Actions
<balloons> ba
<smartboyhw> ba?
<balloons> my browser is continually crashing
 * astraljava is actually here, but only with an announcement
<smartboyhw> astraljava, OK
 * smartboyhw patts balloons in the back for that
<balloons> Well, the only previous action is the website updates on my end anyway
<balloons> and there's still nothing to report yet.. I have to do the theme change and push it up
<smartboyhw> Eee that is bad
<balloons> #action balloons to push up new theme for qa.ubuntu.com
<meetingology> ACTION: balloons to push up new theme for qa.ubuntu.com
<smartboyhw> That action is on for a MONTH!
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Updates
 * smartboyhw wonders what announcement astraljava is gonna make;P
<balloons> I'll keep this quick for ubuntu, given it's beta2 time :-)
<smartboyhw> ;-)
<balloons> beta2 and unity testing is underway
<balloons> it's the primary focus of the week
<balloons> in addition, the testcases work is still on-going. I converted all of the isotracker tests over to the new css yesterday
<balloons> the package tracker tests will have to also be converted
<smartboyhw> :)
<balloons> there's still some ubiquity installer options that need to be added to the testcases as well
<balloons> all coming
<balloons> the surprise unity testing pushed us all back a day
<balloons> questions?
 * smartboyhw says no:P
<balloons> you can see the progress here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/QuantalTestcaseUpdates
<balloons> [TOPIC] Other Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  Other Updates
<balloons> ok, astraljava your up first :-)
 * smartboyhw fears that announcement won't be good:(
<astraljava> Alright, so I've decided to make some changes in my personal life. This means I'm going to reduce heavily my time spent on contributing to *buntu.
<astraljava> Thus I've decided to give out my positions in QA on Studio and Xubuntu.
<astraljava> smartboyhw already volunteered as a contact person for Studio, and we're having a meeting with Xubuntu contributors in less than an hour.
<astraljava> I'm sure someone will step forward there.
<astraljava> I'd like to see this effective immediately.
<balloons> astraljava, well, thank you for all of your hard work :-)
 * smartboyhw thanks astraljava and bows at him
<astraljava> But I can hang out here for as long as the new people feel needed.
<astraljava> Thanks guys, it's been a pleasure to work with such awesome bunch of people! :)
<astraljava> ..
<balloons> I wish you all the best.. I'll meet whomever the new face is on the xubuntu side
<astraljava> Thanks. I'm not completely going away from the community, so I'd expect to stumble upon you occasionally. :)
<astraljava> Shifting priorities, moving more towards development, the kind that aren't that dependant on the schedules of releases.
<astraljava> It'll release a lot of daily time for other tasks.
<smartboyhw> :)
<balloons> astraljava, well,  hope the time and effort learned while in QA helps you out.. and Good luck of course. Stop by and say hi and show off what your up to at some point :-)
 * smartboyhw bows yo astraljava again
<smartboyhw> *to
<balloons> Alrighty, anyone else?
 * smartboyhw has no questions today pretty weird so balloons should end meeting
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 26 14:16:31 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-26-14.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-26-14.00.html
<balloons> I can run with that
<balloons> hahah!
<smartboyhw> Thx balloons and astraljava
 * smartboyhw feels sad
<astraljava> Thanks balloons for everything, yeah I've definitely learnt lots, and those things will surely come handy whenever I work on *buntu stuff.
 * smartboyhw adds oil on astraljava
<smartboyhw> add oil = give support
<astraljava> Okay, I was worried for a moment there. :)
<smartboyhw> lol
<balloons> it's just a new beginning for astraljava .. I'm very excited for you.
<balloons> QA is a bit of a gateway drug honestly :-)
<balloons> you can find yourself going down all sorts of rabbit holes
<smartboyhw> lol
<balloons> time to fix the browser
<balloons> brb
<smartboyhw> cya
<smartboyhw> astraljava, want a chat with you. PM?
<astraljava> balloons: Thanks. You may hear of me, or more like the products of these new tasks I'm going to undertake, in the future.
<astraljava> smartboyhw: Sure, gimme 5.
<smartboyhw> 5!
 * balloons high fives smartboyhw 
 * smartboyhw high fives balloons lol
 * xnox 0/
<stokachu> o//////
<jodh> o/
 * slangasek waves
<stokachu> (> " )><( " )><( " <)
 * ogra_ shores
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> doko slangasek barry xnox infinity jodh ogra stgraber cjwatson ev bdmurray stokachu
<slangasek> er, maybe I should start the meeting first ;)
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 26 15:02:22 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> sorry, caffeine not quite diffused into the bloodstream yet this morning
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> doko slangasek barry xnox infinity jodh ogra stgraber cjwatson ev bdmurray stokachu
<doko> - look at webkit-1.91 build failure, not a binutils issue, > 4G archive not supported (never was). needs webkit buildsystem changes
<doko> - investigate qt4-x11 ftbfs on arm* over the weekend. buildd issue, swapping to death. builds locally, so there must be extra load on the buildd.
<doko> - start quantal test rebuild
<doko> - fix or delegate ftbfs in main, now almost done, although the ftbfs pages don't show progress (unapproved and proposed not shown)
<doko> - not yet addressed in main: genshi, git, libgtk2-perl, mksh, feedparser (libxml2 issue), ubuntuone-client
<doko> - fix ftbfs in package sets (almost done)
<doko> - again, followup on MIRs, and component mismatches, seeded restricted components
<doko> - package libvigraimpex 1.8 to fix ftbfs (just two rdeps, so upgrade should be fine, tested).
<doko> - fix binutils bfd.h header inclusion, seen in package test rebuilds
<doko> - remove the va_list info/warning on arm, accepted upstream and put in gcc-4.7
<doko> - fix python2.7 regression (please accept into -proposed, so that it can build)
<doko> - libjpeg-turbo update to 1.2.1
<doko> - gcc-4.7.2 release packages
<doko> - python3.3 rc3 packages
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> - short week(s), vacation last week and now playing catch-up
<slangasek> - working on XDG_RUNTIME_DIR which has unfortunately still not landed; have had a few false starts with the necessary pam module
<slangasek> - working on getting UEFI SecureBoot shim support landed
<slangasek> - uploaded a more-asynchronous mountall to Debian unstable that fixes some problems in cloud init, and seems to hold together for the rest of us - and might even make boot faster. testing welcome, I'll be asking for this in quantal post-beta and pushing for a precise SRU
<slangasek> (done)
<xnox> * ubiquity:
<xnox>  - adv-crypto reviewed and uploaded, bug 1042649
<xnox>  - ubiquity ValueError bug reviewed and uploaded into quantal,
<xnox>  bug 792652 and bug 1027648 (this is the top crasher on errors.ubuntu.com
<xnox>  and since the upload there were no instances of it in quantal).
<xnox>  - fix a few bugs reported during milestone testing of adv-crypto. bug 1055640,\
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1042649 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[FFe] [UIFe] Manual Partitioning Crypt" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1042649
<xnox>  bug 1055819, bug 1055815
<xnox>  - progressing with adv-lvm
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 792652 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "ubiquity crashed with ValueError in command(): I/O operation on closed file" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/792652
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1027648 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "ubiquity crashed with ValueError in command(): I/O operation on closed file." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1027648
<xnox>  - did ~1h of patch piloting, report pending and further piloting
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1055640 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "ubi-partman error 141 when removing encrypted partition" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1055819 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "Ubiquity should avoid partlocked error when rebuilding disk cache" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055819
<xnox>  rescheduled for the end of the week
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1055815 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "No mountpoint option when manually partitioning with encrypted volumes" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055815
<xnox> * raid:
<xnox>  - ongoing discussion on dmraid -> mdadm migration for Intel Raid (see
<xnox>  mdadm bug reports on launchpad)
<barry> um...
<xnox> (the precise tasks for value error are commited in the branch, thanks cjwatson for cherry-pick, and will be part of 12.04.2)
<stokachu> lol
<xnox> barry, sorry.....
<barry> no worries, mine is short and boring anyway :)
<barry> xnox: go ahead and finish
<xnox> barry: go head. done.
<barry> bug 1055581; python issue 15935 (argparse follow up); gwibber py3 port (i know, i know, we actually are nearing the end). done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1055581 in python-tx-tftp (Ubuntu) "FTBFS in Quantal test rebuild" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055581
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - Wrote a stack of new unit tests (30 since last week) which have
<jodh>     already found a few issues.
<jodh>   - Currently investigating bridge restart and a suspected memory
<barry> also submitted the fix for that upstream
<jodh>     corruption issue.
<jodh> á
<stokachu> is that a table?
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_>  * parts of the wiki updates for arm installations
<ogra_>  * d-i framebuffer issue on arm server installs is fixed
<ogra_>  * fixed various flash-kernel bugs (i.e. bug 1055938 )
<ogra_>  * beta2 preparation and testing
<ogra_>  * some zatab (allwinner) spare time hacking (would like to have a hand rolled image ready before UDS)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1055938 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu Quantal) "uboot and mlo not in boot partition after install" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055938
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_>  * finish wikipage changes
<ogra_>  * research partition resizing issues on panda installs (bug 1056410)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1056410 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "changing drive partitioning on ARM Quantal does not work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056410
<ogra_>  * fix flash-kernel ability to manually force a kernel version for manual downgrades (bug 1056206)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1056206 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu) "3.0~rc.4ubuntu23: cannot flash an old (previous Q) kernel" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056206
<ogra_>  * check what we can do for panda bootspeed
<ogra_>  * research input issues with d-i installs on panda (bug 1028664)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028664 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "keyboard does not work on quantal-server-armhf+omap4.img" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028664
<ogra_>  * bug 1028905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028905 in cdrom-detect (Ubuntu Quantal) "cdrom-detect in quantal omap4 hangs trying to look for install media on an extended partition" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028905
<ogra_>  * and bug 984276 (that somehow fell off my radar but is back on my TODO now)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 984276 in casper (Ubuntu Quantal) "installing casper on a non live system causes update-initramfs to fail" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984276
<ogra_> ..
<jodh> stokachu: yeah, it's the bro' of á
<stokachu> lol nice
<stgraber>  - ISO tracker
<stgraber>    - Got the new version landed in production in time for beta2.
<stgraber>  - Container
<stgraber>    - Upstream work, reviewing patches, maintaining staging branch
<stgraber>    - Ported a few scripts to using the python API instead of wrapping the commands
<stgraber>  - Release
<stgraber>    - Did some last minute fixes in Edubuntu to revert the shopping lens and the new launchers
<stgraber>    - Reviewed a few FFe
<stgraber>    - Doing beta2 testing
<stgraber>  - Networking
<stgraber>    - Bloged about IPv4/IPv6 dual-stack setup on 3G (http://www.stgraber.org/2012/09/24/dual-stack-3g-connections/)
<stgraber>    - Uploaded an isc-dhcp SRU to precise.
<stgraber>    - Started looking into unbound/bind9 support in NetworkManager as potential DNSSEC-aware replacement for dnsmasq.
<stgraber>  - Installer
<stgraber>    - Fixed a bug in one of the thml file preventing the generation of pot files for ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu. Manually imported the new ones in LP.
<stgraber>  - Other
<stgraber>    - Switched to using sssd and samba4 for my machines, fixed an apparmor profile bug found as a result.
<stgraber>    - Cleaned up workitem list quite a bit
<stgraber>  - TODO
<stgraber>    - Start looking at foundations-q-autocreate-preseed
<stgraber>    - Some ISO tracker tweaks/bugfixes for final
<stgraber>  - Next week
<stgraber>    - I'll be at the usual LTSP hackfest down in Maine from Thursday to Sunday, traveling down there on Thursday so will have limited connectivity on that day.
<stgraber>      When not traveling, I should be reachable on IRC and by e-mail, possibly on my VOIP number, however don't count on my cell, GSM is quite bad in that area.
<stgraber>      So, if you have anything that needs a significant amount of my time, please try to catch me early next week.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<slangasek> barry: so is the argparse saga at an end now?
<barry> slangasek: i hope so ;)
<barry> it was definitely a regression, now fixed in all upstream active branches
<xnox> jodh: utfout package is in debian new queue =)
<jodh> xnox: great! Thanks for your help with that!!!
<cjwatson> whoops, my turn, sorry
<cjwatson> Removed cdromupgrade from server CDs (bug 1045201).
<cjwatson> Merged automake1.11 security fix.
<cjwatson> Finished and landed LP process-accepted-bugs-job branch.  This now seems to be working fine, so we can kill off the old queue script after beta-2.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1045201 in Ubuntu CD Images "quantal ubuntu-server isos include cdromupgrade" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045201
<cjwatson> Swtched to the new archive signing key.  Uploaded an ubuntu-keyring SRU as a consequence, pending review.
<cjwatson> Fixed regression from last week's grub-installer merge.
<cjwatson> Arranged for d-i rescue mode to offer to mount a separate /boot (bug 320183, bug 1045409).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320183 in rescue (Ubuntu) "When using "Recover a broken system" from the Server CD boot menu, /boot is not mounted" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320183
<cjwatson> Co-announced new plan to use GRUB 2 for UEFI secure boot, and uploaded (mostly) suitable packaging.  Created a grub2-signed package.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1045409 in rescue (Ubuntu Quantal) "'reinstall grub' option missing when rescuing encrypted LVM system (or any system with separate /boot)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045409
<cjwatson> Fixed the remaining LP UEFI publishing bugs, allowing us to stage signed UEFI images in PPAs.
<cjwatson> Applied yaboot-installer patch from bug 956481.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956481 in yaboot-installer (Ubuntu) "ppc: YabootInstaller doesn't handle USB drive installation so well" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956481
<cjwatson> Fixed missing SUBARCH in live-installer.postinst which broke ARM (bug 1054143).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1054143 in live-installer (Ubuntu Quantal) "armhf-omap4: Beta 20120924 server image fails to install with "no kernels found"" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054143
<cjwatson> Fixed missing /sys bind-mount in grub-installer, a long-standing bug exposed by GRUB 2.00 (bug 1054323).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1054323 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Quantal) "Server Installer fails at 'grub install dummy' in EFI mode" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054323
<cjwatson> Verified my apt extra-override-handling SRU from a while back.
<cjwatson> Investigating d-i lowmem thresholds (bug 1050595).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1050595 in lowmem (Ubuntu Quantal) "Ubuntu Server installation with 128M ram hangs" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1050595
<cjwatson> ..
<cjwatson> jodh: yay Ogham
<slangasek> I did not recognize it as ogham, until I turned my head sideways
<slangasek> ev:
<jodh> cjwatson: :)
<ev> - Short week; narrow boating on Friday and Monday.
<ev> - More research on top-k for arbitrary date ranges. We have a reasonable
<ev>   solution, but I may implmenet something simplier just so we have a solution
<ev>   to the failing to load year view a bit sooner.
<ev> - Learning a lot more of D3.js to implement Matthew's errors.ubuntu.com front
<ev>   page redesign and milestone lines on the average errors per day graph. Now
<ev>   implemented, though I still need to file a RT for the deployment.
<ev> - Implemented part of the reprocessing failed retraces work, as Seb
<ev>   potentially needs it and I've been putting it off for too long :). Once
<ev>   deployed (RT 56342) we'll be able to selectively run stacktrace address
<ev>   signatures back through the retracing and bucketing process.
<ev> - Starting to piece together a presentation with Matthew for UDS.
<ev> (done)
<bdmurray> bug triage and testing of iso-testing bug reports
<bdmurray> update-manager, usb-creator bug triage
<bdmurray> finding duplicates of grub-installer bug 1053317
<bdmurray> fixed bug 1043725
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1053317 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Quantal) "/usr/share/grub-installer/grub-installer: 57: local: not in a function" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1053317
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1043725 in update-manager (Ubuntu Quantal) "dep8 test test_stop_update.TestStopUpdate failed: missing dependency on update-notifier (schema com.ubuntu.update-notifier missing)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1043725
<bdmurray> discussion of bug 1039220
<bdmurray> tested bug 938869
<bdmurray> worked on fixing bug 1039484
<bdmurray> tested and fixed apport bug patterns with python2
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039220 in apport (Ubuntu Quantal) "don't report crashes for programs that don't match the file on disk (like for kernel crashes)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039220
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 938869 in python3.2 (Ubuntu) "lsb_release crashed with SIGABRT in Py_FatalError()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938869
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039484 in python-apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "Accents in sources.list breaks do-release-upgrade" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039484
<bdmurray> setup a quantal iso-testing report using arsenal
<bdmurray> â done
<stokachu> http://pad.lv/1013211 - needs sponsor
<stokachu> http://pad.lv/977959 - comment updated, needs (precise) sponsor
<stokachu> http://pad.lv/1036834 - needs sponsor
<stokachu> http://pad.lv/794112 - needs sponsor
<stokachu> http://pad.lv/683640 - needs sponsor
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1013211 in libgnomecanvas (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libgnomecanvas to multi-arch" [High,In progress]
<stokachu> done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977959 in libgnome (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libgnome to multi-arch" [High,In progress]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1036834 in gdb (Ubuntu Precise) "gdb should be marked "Multi-arch: allowed"" [High,In progress]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 794112 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "Kerberos + LDAP + NFSv4 - Unable to recover unattended client" [High,In progress]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 683640 in lsb (Ubuntu Precise) "status_of_proc is returning incorrect error code" [High,In progress]
<doko> bdmurray, will apport get support for env vars?
<bdmurray> doko: yes, I'll work on that
<doko> cool
<doko> stokachu, libgnome ma for q?
<stokachu> doko, yea thats been pushed i think
<stokachu> there was some discussion on a comment i made but hopefully cleared up
<doko> I'll look at the ma issues tomorrow.
<stokachu> ok cool thanks
<slangasek> stokachu: 1013211, 1036834 on my list here; 977959, I suppose I should take as well.  wasn't there another one that I kicked back to you for further changes?
<stokachu> yea appmenu-gtk
<stokachu> working on that one this week
<slangasek> ok, cool
<slangasek> doko: oh, feel free to take care of the ma upload sponsorship then, happy to have them off my list :)
<slangasek> any other questions on the above?
<stokachu> the other non ma are released in quantal for the most part
<stokachu> i think
<xnox> I also saw bug 1052039 and bug 1052030
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1052039 in libgnomeprintui (Ubuntu) "Please transition libgnomeprintui to multi-arch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1052039
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1052030 in libgnomeprint (Ubuntu) "Please transition libgnomeprint to multi-arch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1052030
<stokachu> thats a new one
<stokachu> ill take that one
<stokachu> will someone approve the series nomination please
<xnox> well.... they have patches they need sponsors.
<xnox> stokachu: is that for both quantal & precise?
<stokachu> xnox, i spoke with mark already he has changes to make on the patches
<doko> openjdk wants libgnome2-0, libgnomevfs2-0, libgconf2-4, so these would be appreciated
<stokachu> doko, any bugs opened on those?
<doko> no
<stokachu> libgconf hasn't been ma'd
<stokachu> the other 2 are
<stokachu> ill add libgconf to my todo list
<doko> thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: how do things look for us?
<bdmurray> well the rls-q- queues seem to have grown a lot
<bdmurray> so daunting?
<slangasek> queues plural - meaning for all teams, not just ours?
<bdmurray> plural as in -incoming and -tracking
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> I rejected some of -incoming last week and pushed the rest into -tracking
<cjwatson> I think most of the -tracking growth is from that
<slangasek> tracking had seemed reasonably under control before I left... ah, cjwatson strikes ;)
<doko> filed some main ftbfs as release relevant too
<cjwatson> Recent -incoming growth is mostly just expected ISO testing input
<slangasek> can we farm some of those bugs out here?
<cjwatson> slangasek: -incoming had got up to 15-20 or so by last meeting
<cjwatson> Couldn't reject them all :)
<bdmurray> regarding the incoming I was only able to recreate bug 1055326 in ubiquity only mode
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1055326 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "During installation, flashplugin fails to install with: IOError: [Errno socket error] [Errno -2] Name or service not known" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055326
<slangasek> I think we should turf bug #1017031; I suspect it was a transitional issue around the time we were making changes to dpkg
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017031 in dpkg (Ubuntu Quantal) "dpkg: error: duplicate file trigger interest for filename `/usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodules' and package `libgtk2.0-0:amd64'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017031
<slangasek> if it were a real problem, there'd be a lot more noise on it
<bdmurray> slangasek: is there anything I could search for re 1017031?
<slangasek> bdmurray: do you agree with that assessment?  or should we be checking for duplicates somewhere before turfing that?
<slangasek> bdmurray: right - it'd be the "duplicate file trigger interest for filename" string
<stokachu> slangasek, is gconf ma'd completely now?
<stokachu> im looking through the changelog
<bdmurray> okay, I'll look around and turf if I don't find anything
<cjwatson> I've asked for retesting of bug 699802
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 699802 in grub2 (Ubuntu Quantal) "error:: no video mode activated" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/699802
<cjwatson> (Though I suspect it has been dogpiled)
<slangasek> stokachu: gconf certainly should be completely MA
<stokachu> but not libgconf
<slangasek> bdmurray: alright; I'm going to pre-emptively close the bug since I think it's invalid, if you find more hits please reopen
<slangasek> stokachu: sure it is
<stokachu> ok.. hmm doko, what problems are being faced with openjdk?
<doko> basically running downloaded aps which have i386 only on amd64
<slangasek> stokachu: I suspect he just hasn't tested whether gconf is multiarched?
<doko> no, I hadn't =)
<stokachu> ah
<slangasek> bug #987212
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 987212 in avahi (Ubuntu Quantal) "Wireless printer "Processing - Unable to locate printer."" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987212
<stokachu> doko, in that case gconf is done and the other two are either in quantal and making there way into precise
<slangasek> not sure this should be on our list; probably needs to be -notfixing'ed
<doko> nice
<stokachu> or waiting for sponsorship
<cjwatson> Bug 1048584 isn't really ours, but I'll fix it anyway
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1048584 in language-selector (Ubuntu Quantal) "kdevelop-php should pull kdevelop-php-l10n in pkg_depends" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048584
<stokachu> sorry i was confused there for a minute
<slangasek> bdmurray, cjwatson: either of you think we shouldn't turf 987212?  I think it's on our list per the SRU targeting process, not due to an explicit -incoming accept
<bdmurray> slangasek: agreed
<slangasek> ogra_: should bug #1028905 be assigned to you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028905 in cdrom-detect (Ubuntu Quantal) "cdrom-detect in quantal omap4 hangs trying to look for install media on an extended partition" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028905
<slangasek> (you mentioned it in your report)
<cjwatson> slangasek: I agree
<ogra_> oh,m i thought i assigned it already
<slangasek> ogra_: assigned now :)
<ogra_> done
<ogra_> bah, *snap* :)
<slangasek> bug #1030278 - fun
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1030278 in python-apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "Quantal failed to install: ubiquity crashed in apt/progress/text.py in pulse: OverflowError: Python int too large to convert to C long" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1030278
<slangasek> jodh: ^^ can I give this one to you?
<jodh> slangasek: no probs
<cjwatson> Yeah - googling was vaguely helpful for that but not enough to produce a clear fix
<cjwatson> juliank might be helpful if you can find him on IRC
 * slangasek learns that foundations owns git ;)
<xnox> slangasek: no, just git-svn =))))
<slangasek> doko: does bug #1056728 cause the package to fail to build?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1056728 in git (Ubuntu Quantal) "git-svn needs an update for subversion 1.7.x" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056728
<doko> yes
<doko> jnieder did propose a patch to just disable these tests, he did give up extracting all the commits
<stokachu> the internet is stupid
<slangasek> doko: what's the "4.12" version you mention?  git is currently at version 1.7.10.4
<doko> ?
<slangasek> doko: from the bug description - you said "either disable the failing test (?), backport the the subversion 1.7.x support, or update to 4.12."
<slangasek> I don't know what 4.12 is
<slangasek> 1.7.12, maybe?
<doko> yes
<doko> 1.7.12.1 even
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> looks like there are a bunch of package build failures on this list
<slangasek> please jump in and help out with these, guys
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<slangasek> (for reference)
<cjwatson> Yep.  I know what I'm doing for the rest of the week ;-)
<stokachu> sorry how do you tell whats failing to buidl on this link?
<slangasek> bug #1054346 - looks like there's a related branch.  Does Dylan have upload rights on ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1054346 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu Quantal) "welcome.jpg shows a pangolin" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054346
<cjwatson> stokachu: search for ftbfs
<stokachu> ah ok thanks
<slangasek> stokachu: the bugs that have "FTBFS" or "build" in their description, roughly
<xnox> slangasek: i think that will go in after beta2 is released.
<cjwatson> stgraber said he was going to sponsor u-s-u, I think
<stgraber> yep
<slangasek> ok, assigning
<slangasek> that's probably enough about bugs for now
<slangasek> I think -
<slangasek> bdmurray: or is there anything else?
<bdmurray> mvo added a patch to bug 1015567 fwiw
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1015567 in dpkg (Ubuntu Quantal) "upgrade failed: mixed non-coinstallable and coinstallable package instances present" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015567
<bdmurray> and mvo has a merge proposal for bug 1052605
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1052605 in update-manager (Ubuntu Quantal) "ERROR:root:getListFromFile: no '/usr/share/update-manager/removal_blacklist.cfg' found: exception during Precise to Quantal upgrade on amd64+mac" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1052605
<bdmurray> https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/ubuntu-release-upgrader/lp1052605/+merge/125693
<cjwatson> Oh, yeah, I looked at that MP and ran away
<cjwatson> I'll steel myself and have another look
<slangasek> xnox: 1015567 is assigned to you, are you ok to follow through?  or should we kick it over to infinity, since he's to blame for everything broken in dpkg right now? :)
<xnox> bdmurray: yes, mvo was pinging me about dpkg. I have small test to run against it & we agreed on the plan of fixing it for real as well as appying that work around patch.
<slangasek> spiff
<slangasek> well, I was going to pester people about work items too, but we seem to have run out of time for that
<slangasek> so I'll come knocking on your cubicle walls individually :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<cjwatson> please can I have enough I/O over USB that I can run lintian over grub2 and read mail at the same time
<cjwatson> never mind
<xnox> ev: how do you get RT deployments done? RT 55554 is still not done
<cjwatson> Oh, should we drop data.tar.xz-member-without-dpkg-pre-depends from lintian now?
<xnox> the ubuntu-geonames lookup.
<ev> xnox: I kindly nag
<ev> xnox: hang out in #webops
<xnox> hm....
 * ogra_ wishes we could disable apport on arm installs by default
<ev> ask if someone can look at it during your active hours
<xnox> ok.
<slangasek> cjwatson: ah, is that a delta?  seems like we could drop it now
<ev> failing that, ask slangasek to bump the priority and raise it at the next meeting
<slangasek> is LP happy for it to go away?
<cjwatson> Actually it apparently isn't
<ogra_> i just had to wait 20min for a stuck desktop to recover because apport colletced stuff
<cjwatson> There's an Ubuntu profile thing in lintian to raise it from pedantic to serious
<slangasek> apport is such a neat freak
<ogra_> and now apt-update-xapian-index kicked in ...
<cjwatson> So I might just commit upstream to drop that back to pedantic - yeah, LP doesn't care any more
<ogra_> which will keep it stuck for about another hour
 * ogra_ ponders a release note "after install dont touch your panda installation for 2h"
<cjwatson> Oh, haha, already done upstream
<xnox> ogra_: or use it at 3-4am in the morning =)
<ogra_> heh
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 26 16:03:11 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-26-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-26-15.02.html
<slangasek> thanks everyone :)
<ev> thanks!
<jodh> thanks
<ogra_> thanks !
<barry> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
 * xnox cheers
<slangasek> xnox: oh, RT#55554 - send me a nag mail about that please, it was supposed to have gone into the "piece o' cake" queue on IS's side
<slangasek> didn't realize that was still stalled, sorry
<xnox> slangasek: ok.
<mvo> cjwatson: just reading the backlog, if https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/ubuntu-release-upgrader/lp1052605/+merge/125693 made you run away, I wonder if there is anything that can be done to fix that. any suggestions welcome, just put them into the MP (or we can chat tomorrow about it)
<bootlkjkgf> Anything could happen in the next 90 minutes [bookmark] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/Musopen/open-source-bug-tracking
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-27
<uros1> khm, no meeting tonight?
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-28
 * skaet waves
 * ogra_ shores
<skaet> :)
 * smartboyhw waves
<popey> o/
<seb128> hey
<skaet> welcome... quormum is forming  :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Sep 28 15:00:15 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<highvoltage> o/
 * stgraber waves
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-09-28
<skaet> .
<skaet> Upcoming dates:
<skaet> 12.10
<skaet>     2012/10/04: Kernel Freeze and Desktop Infrastructure Freeze at 2100 UTC
<skaet>     2012/10/09: Translation Deadline at 1030 UTC and Final Freeze at 2100 UTC
<skaet>     2012/10/11 - Release Candidate, and Release Note Content Freeze
<skaet>     2012/10/16 - Unseeded Universe Final Freeze
<skaet>     October 18 - 12.10 Release
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs:
<skaet> Development teams are trying to fix: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> To be considered for fixing: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> .
<skaet> Work Items:
<skaet> 2012/09/21 -  2997 (was 2996  - 2012/09/21):   Thank you for the recent push to clean up the feature status.  :)
<skaet> We are still behind the trendline for some of the projects.  Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks. If something is clearly not going to make it this cycle, please mark it POSTPONED.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Thanks to those who sent in status emails,  could you please paste the link here in the channel,  since there werenât that many when I checked earlier this morning...
<skaet> ..
<skaet> #topic Comments and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Comments and Questions
<skaet> Thank you to the release team and QA team and flavor leads for everyoneâs hard work on getting all the late features landed, and tested,  and out the door for Beta2.
<skaet> Now entering the last window for bug fixing before we release 12.10.  Any questions on upcoming dates/schedule above?
<ogra_> foundations status - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001962.html (ogra)
<ogra_> err
<smartboyhw> Ubuntu Studio: No:P
<ogra_> sorry, old link
<ogra_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001986.html
<skaet> thanks ogra_,  I'll add the links to the agenda from ubuntu-release as we get them in.
<skaet> (or likely from the mail list ;) )
<jbicha> \o
<skaet> go jbicha
<jbicha> .. (I was just waving)
<skaet> welcome :)
<smartboyhw> :)
<seb128> jbicha, hey ;-)
<skaet> any one else have their links handy or questions?
<ogra_> o/
<skaet> ogra_,  is it just new review blocking pam-xdg-support?
<ogra_> skaet, as i understood it, yeah
<seb128> it seems to have been NEW reviewed
<doko> skaet, built now in q, needs a MIR
<seb128> the binaries are installable
<seb128> (I installed it here)
<ogra_> doesnt the FFe serve as MIR too ?
 * ogra_ thought the bits were on the bug
<seb128> no, FFe don't do code reviews nor security reviews I think
<skaet> jdstrand, mdeslaur - is there anything missing for pam-xdg-support?
<doko> I don't think so
 * xnox 0/
<mdeslaur> skaet: did it get a MIR?
<mdeslaur> skaet: unless one has already been performed, it should go through the MIR process and get a security audit
<doko> mdeslaur, it looks fine for me, however I'd like to have the security team have a look
<skaet> ogra_,  can you handle?
<skaet> getting the MIR filed, so we can unblock this one?
<ogra_> skaet, i'll poke slangasek ... but i thought there was MIR data in the FFe bu already
<ogra_> *bug
<skaet> mdeslaur, can you guys do a security review on it today?
<jdstrand> I cannot
<mdeslaur> skaet: what's the bug #?
<jdstrand> I could do it monday
<seb128> it's 300 lines of code
<seb128> so shouldn't be too hard
<jdstrand> well, it's pam. it's always hard
<seb128> right, I was going to add a note about that ;-)
<ogra_> bug 894391
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 894391 in mountall (Ubuntu Quantal) "[FFe] support $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894391
<skaet> jdstrand,  thanks.  if someone else can't get it through today,  would be good to do it as soon as possible on monday.   Want this landing before we go into desktop infrastructure freeze.
<jdstrand> might I just add, once again, that late landing code like this is hard to deal with?
<skaet> (if its ok to go in ;) )
<skaet> jdstrand,  no argument from me.
<ogra_> jdstrand, foundations is aware and is sorry ... and will buy you beer at UDS :)
<jdstrand> heh, well, at least someone from the security team
<skaet> :)
<skaet> .. on this one I think.
<ogra_> o/
<skaet> any other urgent FFE's or bug fixes that need help left,  or have we pretty much quiesced?
<skaet> go ogra
<skaet> go ogra_
 * skaet goofed up her auto complete
<ogra_> popey, have the compiz bits (and its rdeps) been tested against arm this time (last abi bump i had to spend three days to fix them)
<popey> ogra_, not yet, only landed in a ppa a couple of hours ago
<ogra_> (though that was simply because the packagind had s/arm/foo/ across the board)
<ogra_> popey, but they will ? or do i need to plan to keep time available for it ?
<popey> hmm, my team has no arm hardware capable of testing compiz right now
<popey> so help needed there
<popey> ..
<skaet> plars, balloons, ^ can you help popey
<ogra_> but you at least do build tests (and take a look at the logs if GLES was enabled ?)
<ogra_> popey, that would already help a lot ...
<plars> I'm gone until tuesday of next week, but we may have someone else who can give it a try.  if we need to pull it from the ppa just shoot us a link and we can help take a look
<ogra_> (last time the world was built for GL ... which is clearly visible in the logs for example)
<popey> ogra_, ok, I'll add that to our testing.
<popey> thanks!
<ogra_> thx
<popey> ..
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> before we move on,  just want to check that everyone is ok with the dates I pasted at the start of the meeting?
<smartboyhw> :)
<ogra_> thats all *next month* !
<ogra_> so far away :)
<skaet> we're pretty compressed time wise
<skaet> popey,  seb128 are you going to be ok holding to the desktop infrastructure freeze next Thursday?  (happens with the kernel freeze)
<skaet> ogasawara, is the kernel freeze on track?
<seb128> skaet, should be fine
<popey> yes
<seb128> compiz updates is planned on monday
<ogasawara> ogasawara: yep, planned for next week
<seb128> and unity on wednesday
<skaet> thanks seb128, popey, ogasawara
<skaet> doko,  no other toolchain uploads to worry about?
<doko> the only toolchain uploads I do worry about are glib2.0, gtk, and qt
<seb128> glib and gtk got updated to the GNOME 3.6 stable version so no change expected for those
<skaet> doko,  what's the issue with glib2.0?   I've seen several bug fixes go in for it recently, but not sure what's outstanding.
<skaet> and what's left with qt?
<doko> skaet, I see it's now built on arm after the fifth upload, so probably it's ok. however qt4-x11 didn't build yet on arm, and webkit fails. likely a launchpad issue, Laney is trying to work around it
<skaet> doko,  thanks.  will keep eye open then for it.
<Laney> ahoy
<Laney> waiting for post-b2 skew to sort itself out so that I can test webkit locally
<skaet> thanks Laney.
<Laney> cautiously optimistic
<Laney> providing someone toolchainy lets the make patch in
<doko> Laney, could you at least forward this upstream?
<doko> if it's not yet there ...
<Laney> I think it was
<Laney> I'll try to find the reference
<Laney> it's certainly not applied though
<skaet> ..?
<Laney> doko: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-make/2009-07/msg00012.html is what I can come up with ATM
<Laney> yes, we can discuss this elsewhere
<Laney> sorry
<skaet> no worries.   good to get it resolved.
<skaet> seb128, popey - there are a couple of critical bugs on the tracking list.  At least one is stale (I recognize it, and will mark it fix released ;) )  Could you both take a pass at http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html ? and make sure all the criticals either have a 12.10 date or quantal-updates beside them,  so we can make sure we're focusing on the right things for the next wee
<skaet> k?
<seb128> skaet, it's on my todo for today, sorry I got a behind this week catching up after holidays and with beta2
<popey> thanks seb128
<ogra_> they let you do holidays ?!?
<skaet> ogra_,  if foundations could do the same,  it would help make sure we're all focusing on the important bigs,  since those lists are rather long.
<ogra_> yup
<seb128> ogra_, yeah, not sure what they were thinking :p
<ogra_> :)
<skaet> ogasawara,  and kernel team is the champ of the long list right now...  ;)
<ogra_> yeah, we should go without kernels, they always have bugs :)
<ogasawara> ogra_: +1 :)
<Daviey> hurd++
<ogasawara> skaet: I think that's due to the CVE's which we've discussed earlier
<popey> That's it, I'm switching to GNU/Hurd!
<ogra_> thats also a kernel
<skaet> anyhow,  will be using that list exclusively for the next couple of weeks to make sure the important fixes land in 12.10 - so if you have bug fix that needs to land, but is not on that list,  please let me know and I'll help sort.
<skaet> ogasawara, yeah,  that's it mostly,  but for the high/criticals - would be good to know what will land this week, and what's definitely SRU teritory
<ogasawara> skaet: ack
<skaet> Daviey,  arosales -  there's one critical that seems stalled, but is on the list - wanting to know if its really critical, and likely to land?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1026102
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1026102 in Ubuntu Quantal "Openstack provider does not validate https certs" [Critical,New]
<skaet> anyhow,  if we can have a nice crisp list by next Thursday,  would very much appreciate,  since there's only a couple of days after that until final freeze.
<skaet> ....
 * skaet will be continuing to ping out of band on these for the next week or two...
<Daviey> skaet: looking
<skaet> Riddell, ScottK, knome, stgraber, highvoltage, scott-work, gilir, ogra_, infinity - please review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseManifest and make sure all the last changes for your images are there.
<skaet> in particular for gilir,  does lubuntu still want to carry alternate images?
<Daviey> skaet: will follow u, thanks
<stgraber> skaet: edubuntu looks good
<gilir> skaet, yes
<ogra_> arm looks fine too
<skaet> thanks,  ok,  please sign the manifest in the "Target" column by entering the date.  :)
<skaet> other topic...   for same audience ;)
<skaet> Riddell, ScottK, knome, stgraber, highvoltage, scott-work, gilir, ogra_, infinity - could you please review the test cases on the iso tracker for your flavors/community ports - and make sure they are accurate for the mandatory/run once/optional?   For the release we will be aiming for 100% coverage.   Please work with balloons to adjust any testcases, if necessary, before October 4, 2012.
 * smartboyhw thinks there will be edit conflict:P
 * skaet is old hand at resolving edit conflicts,  don't worry.
<smartboyhw> LOL
<ogra_> skaet, k
<cjwatson> skaet: we're hammering rls-q-tracking pretty hard at the moment FWIW - it's down about 12 or so over the last two days
<balloons> :-) yes, the mandatory/run-once/optional are important
<skaet> cjwatson,  thank you.  :)
<cjwatson> (and we have no actual critical-priority bugs there right now)
<skaet> *\o/*
<ScottK> o/
<skaet> keep up the good work.   other teams,   feel free to be competitive in terms of getting most fixes in ;)
<skaet> and all critical bugs off the list.
<skaet> go ScottK
<ScottK> I've started to be very skeptical of UIFe requests for things that are just tweaks/new functions.
<ScottK> I think we should do that generally as people need to be focused on fixing stuff and not wouldn't it be nice if ...  ideas.
<ScottK> I've also starting saying no to nice to have FFe's too.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> ScottK,  agreed.   We're out of time for nice to haves.
<skaet> yesterday's UIFe has a quote from Mark that makes that point as well,  I think.  from a UIFe perspective at least.
<skaet> any one else have comment?  questions?
<skaet> or are we pretty much at the end of the meeting now?
<ScottK> Do we know where we are on the https change for shopping?
<ScottK> That's more than slightly essential.
<skaet> I thought I saw that Laney approved it already,  but haven't double checked it this morning.
<skaet> seb128, ^ any update?
<seb128> let me check
<Laney> it's merged
<Laney> we should probably cherry-pick it into the distro
<skaet> please
<seb128> there is an update planned for next week
<seb128> do you prefer than to go earlier?
<Laney> definitely
<seb128> e.g to try to land it today?
<Laney> is the server ready?
<skaet> if we can pull the pieces together.  more time we have to shake it down, better it will be.
<seb128> Laney, server is ready
<Laney> OK, I'll upload it shortly then
<seb128> skaet, Laney: I will have a go at backporting it today
<Laney> oh
<Laney> even better :P
<seb128> Laney, or do you want to do it?
<skaet> Thanks seb128 !  :)
<Laney> no preference
<seb128> yw
<skaet> ..
<ScottK> The only other thing that I thought was really essential was the online search privacy change and I approved that yesterday and I see bits of it are landing.
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Sep 28 15:56:23 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-28-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-28-15.00.html
<skaet> ooops
<ogra_> thanks skaet
<skaet> sorry ScottK
<ScottK> No problem.
<ogra_> heh
<ScottK> It was a statement, not a question.
 * ogra_ has to hurry out anway
<mdeslaur> thanks skaet
<skaet> Thanks seb128, Daviey, ogra_, ogasawara, plars, popey, Laney, cjwatson, smartboyhw, gilir, stgraber, Daviey, doko, jdstrand, mdeslaur, jbicha
<skaet> have a good weekend.
<seb128> skaet, thenks
<seb128> thanks
<stgraber> skaet: thanks
<popey> thank you!
<Ross123> dave?
<bowser4> DGizzle
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-09-30
<AlanBell> gah, ircc meeting
<AlanBell> going to reschedule it for later in the week
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-09-23
<tumbleweed> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<tumbleweed> I don't think we have anything to discuss?
<Laney> hi
<Laney> don't think so
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 23 16:49:05 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on community this week
<jdstrand> over the past couple weeks I've been going through all the policy groups, finding the SDK APIs and writing policy for them. they should all be written now, except sensors
<jdstrand> sensors is blocked because apps that use the recommended api crash. I filed a bug on that
<jdstrand> there is also some discussions that need to happen around friends
<jdstrand> so I'll do that this week
<jdstrand> I have a couple of smallish work items as well
<jdstrand> and need to followup on various appstore reivews topics/tests
<jdstrand> following up on application-confinement bugs and adjusting policy as they are fixed
<jdstrand> I'm hoping I will get to some pending updates this week
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently testing a couple of updates which I'll release either this afternoon or tomorrow
<mdeslaur> I have a few more to test this week, and then will continue going down the list
<mdeslaur> I also have an improvement to do for the upstart apparmor stanza to simplify upstart jobs for confined applications
<mdeslaur> It's a trivial change, I should be testing it this afternoon and uploading it soon
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: please don't upload without discussing in #ubuntu-ci-eng
<mdeslaur> #ubuntu-ci-eng?
<jdstrand> yes-- the Landings discussion on ue-leads
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor again this week, focused on testing improvements and trying to get things off of jjohansen's plate.
<jdstrand> everything is supposed to go through the landings team
 * sbeattie pauses
<mdeslaur> oh, huh
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: we can discuss outside of the meeting if needed
<jdstrand> sbeattie: feel free to go ahead (though I will ask what specific things you are hoping to take off of jj's plate this week)
 * sbeattie resumes
<sbeattie> I'm specifically focusing on ipc tests, and log parsing messages around ipc
<sbeattie> as well as picking up other random bits that come up.
<sbeattie> I'm hoping to sync up with tyhicks on the state of the c++-ification patches, so that we can finish landing them this week
<sbeattie> and that's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I've been catching up on last week's email that came in while I was at Plumbers/LSS
<tyhicks> As sbeattie mentioned, I still need to go through the apparmor list and the review/commit the latest C++ patches
<tyhicks> My focus for the first part of this week will be apparmor/dbus bug squashing (bugs 1226141, 1226356, and 1229280)
<ubottu> bug 1226356 in apparmor (Ubuntu Saucy) "explicit deny rules do not silence logging denials" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226356
<ubottu> bug 1226141 in evince (Ubuntu) "evince reports apparmor denials" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226141
<tyhicks> Then I'll either pick up some IPC work or look into kdbus, depending on which is deemed higher priority
<tyhicks> JJ and I talked to gregkh about kdbus last week
<tyhicks> I need to look into it very soon to make sure we can continue mediating messages the same way we are doing with dbus-daemon today
<tyhicks> In the current kdbus patches, it sounds like the kernel may be lacking some context (path, interface, method) that we need
<tyhicks> Also, we talked with SELinux and Smack folks that have an interest in working together to make sure the appropriate LSM hooks are in place
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: I think you're up since jj and seth are out
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm still working on implementing automated test cases for oxide
<chrisccoulson> i've been finding quite a few bugs as i add them :)
<chrisccoulson> particularly because we restart all of the chromium bits inbetween each test, without restarting the test binary
<jdstrand> tyhicks: re "correct LSM hooks are in place" you were again referring to kdbus?
<chrisccoulson> i'm currently debugging a crash because of that
<tyhicks> jdstrand: correct
<tyhicks> (right now, LSM hooks are not present in kdbus)
<jdstrand> eek
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: nice :)
<tyhicks> but we're jumping in early enough to handle that
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: did I mention that people will hopefully start contacting you to help you soonish?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, no, but that's good :)
<jdstrand> yes :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm hoping i'll have got test coverage for all of the current API by then, and then there will be no excuses for people not to write tests :)
<jdstrand> it came up in the webapps confinement discussion. I think they said the end of this month-- but it might be after release-- few weeks anyway :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it should all be in pretty good shape by then
<chrisccoulson> has anybody else tried building it yet?
<chrisccoulson> (i still need to write some instructions actually)
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: did you have anything else to report?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, no, i think that's it from me
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> jj and seth are out today
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libspring-java.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/socat.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/glusterfs.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gallery2.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pktstat.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 23 17:23:05 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-23-16.49.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-23-16.49.html
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-09-24
<lool> heya
<lool> stgraber, barry, ogra_, plars: heyo
<plars> hi lool
<barry> howdy
 * stgraber waves
<lool> so let's try to keep this short  :-)
<lool> barry: want to start?  you have all the download manager action  :-)
<barry> sure :)
<barry> so, i've been working with mandel on the downloader dbus service.  all the major bugs there have been fixed and are in various stages of ci/landing-on-trunk/landing-in-archive.  my system-image integration branch is getting closer to full-test passing and with a couple more dl bugs fixed i expect we'll have that done this week
<barry> (we have a couple of weird issues still with the d/l service, ongoing to debug and fix)
<barry> hopefully schedule is:
<barry> dl service lands by tomorrow.  new system-image by friday
<lool> barry: I'm not sure I've done that, but I wanted to ask you to add autopkgtests to systme-image client so that download-helper updates cause it to run and can be blocked from testing migration if they would regress system-image
<barry> that's the high order bit.  i can dig into details if you want
<lool> barry: list of bugs we're blocked on for d/l service would be good
<lool> barry: especially if you want to land the fixes
<barry> lool: yeah, slangasek mentioned the same thing last night.  i will file a bug and get that once we have the basic stuff done
<ogra_> whoops, i'm late
<barry> lp: #1229413
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1229413 in ubuntu-download-manager "Network error during group download leaves cruft" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229413
<lool> ok, this one isn't fixed in trunk yet
<barry> (that has a branch i will review today)
<barry> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-download-manager
<barry> lp: #1229463
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1229463 in ubuntu-download-manager "group download .cancel() leaves connection open" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229463
<lool> ok
<barry> that one mostly affects the s-i test suite, so we're not going to block d/l update for that
<barry> i think that's it
<lool> barry: I've just invited mandel here, but could you make sure he requests landing with adequate priority to not block you for too long?
<lool> currently we have an updated staged in the proposed image, and another one in PPA
<lool> (trunnk)
<lool> but we're still missing at list this bug
<lool> barry: ok; thanks for the update
<barry> np
<lool> stgraber: so you've deployed all the server side pieces in the last couple of weeks for channel aliases, pooled diffs etc.?
<lool> stgraber:( awesome!)
<lool> stgraber: are there things you're looking after?
<lool> there is this fs corruption bug I raised which affected Jamie as well
<stgraber> yep, I landed the server changes a week ago, so far everything's just working, haven't had to touch anything since
<lool> barry, stgraber: Did either of you receive Jamie's bug report?  I told him to attach details of the image he was upgrading from/to, how he upgraded etc.
<stgraber> there are some tools improvement though I want to get done (make the copy script wait for the lock to be released and make a batch copy script)
<stgraber> besides that my first priority for system-image stuff now is to look at boot time hooks
<lool> ok
<barry> lool: i haven't seen it
<barry> (or if i did, it was below the radar)
<lool> barry: did you turn logging to verbose in trunk?
<lool> would be good to debug future issues
<barry> lool: it's in my integration branch, so logging will be 'info' level with s-i 1.6
<lool> ok
<lool> didrocks: I invited you because you had the UI side
<lool> didrocks: so that you know the updates are coming up :-)
<lool> didrocks, barry: I just filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1229707 which has been bugging me for a while
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1229707 in ubuntu-system-settings "Have to press download button twice" [Undecided,New]
<lool> might be dbus client side, or system-settings not sure
<didrocks> lool: I looked at the it (some other people reported it)
<didrocks> lool: the method is sent
<didrocks> so I think service-side
<lool> didrocks: if you're touching this piece of code, it would be nice if you could start the spinner before the dbus autospawn kicks in as the spinner takes a little while to show up when one first enters the OS updates menu  :-)
<barry> didrocks: i'm still planning on plumbing through progress from d/l thru s-i to ui, but you should keep an eye on the progress meter usability.  i'm seeing fairly coarse progress from d/l, but apparently we're stuck with what the qt network stack gives us
<didrocks> lool: in fact, it's more a state machine, that can work, but mpt didn't design a spinner
<barry> lool: tagged
<didrocks> lool: he just wanted to see the progress(0)
<lool> barry, stgraber: Oh and one more thing </Steve Jobs>
<didrocks> what I'm waiting barry on :)
<lool> barry, stgraber: we want to generate server-side changelogs in some way and show them in the UI
<didrocks> barry: can't you send progress(0)?
<didrocks> barry: I think that will make people happy at least to be able to cancel and so on
<didrocks> (remember that bug?)
<barry> didrocks: yes, there's a bug on that.  i'll get that done when i plumb thru the new progress signals.  still planning on s-i 1.6 for that
<barry> and yeah, dbus activation is pretty laggy across the board :/
<lool> stgraber: would you think we could use ogra's .manifest diffing stuff as a start to generate the changelogs?
<stgraber> lool: right, that'll take some thinking about, not so much on the system-image side (it's just a text field) but on first landing what we need on the server side
<lool> stgraber: I'm guessing we want to stuff them in the json
<stgraber> lool: Ursinha wrote a tool to do that properly in cdimage but it's pending review from cjwatson and I
<didrocks> barry: I fixed another bug FYI, (barry is assigned as well to that one), but I think that UpdateFailed() shouldn't be sent on CancelUpdate() which has nothing to cancel.
<stgraber> lool: once we have that one landed in the tree, we can look into getting system-image to import those and use them
<cjwatson> yeah, needed to fix some more things in changelogs.u.c first unfortunately and I got stalled on that
<lool> stgraber: Ok; I think this is a 13.10 thing; if it ends up being delayed too much, we should secure some time to remove the dummy messages
<lool> stgraber: ah right remember the Ursinha mp now
<barry> lool, didrocks there's still the u/i bug that it can't handle the array-of-dicts that i18n descriptions passes back.  not sure what the status is on that, but i just need to uncomment a bunch of code to re-enable that
<ogra_> lool, we have a cdimage branch that nobody reviews
<ogra_> lool, for doing proper changelog generation during build
<didrocks> barry: yeah, it's still blocked, I'm distracted with other things unfortunately
<cjwatson> ogra_: Like I say, it's blocked on some server-side fixes on changelogs
<barry> didrocks: k, no worries
<cjwatson> ogra_: I do still consider it on my plate ...
<ogra_> cjwatson, ah, i didnt know it had reached your plate at all yet
<cjwatson> ogra_: I worked with Ursinha and stgraber on it at the saucy releng sprint in July
<cjwatson> (but there's this totally unimportant package called click that people keep wanting me to work on)
<ogra_> we wanted to take a look at it during the sprint, but somehow that didnt happen
<lool> barry: i18n will be incomplete in this relesae I'm afraid; can't translate changelogs either; we'll have to think of something better in next iteration
<lool> but can't design new features at this point
 * barry nods
<lool> 3 weeks left til release!
 * barry freaks out
<ogra_> cjwatson, awesome, i'll leave that to you then, though tell me if it landed so i can stop the cron scripts on my desktop :)
<lool> Ok
<lool> plars: on to you
<lool> plars: couple of topics: QA against R/O images and testing of upgrades
<lool> plars: do you have updates on these?
<plars> lool: on the ro testing side, we're making some additional progress toward that this week
<plars> sergio figured out how to get some additional things in as click packages
<plars> namely notes for now
<plars> but it could grow to other apps too
<plars> but for the time being, we're going to take some of the existing apps that are in as click, and get the tests working on them
<lool> yeah; sadly he's been a bit blocked on clickification due to other reasons
<lool> but cool
<plars> things like dropping letters, stockticker, etc
<plars> yeah, I know
<plars> but as a proof of concept that evertything works as it should
<plars> then as the other apps get clickified, we can transition their testing properly
<cjwatson> that's a good approach, proves the concept without disturbing the image
<lool> plars: I saw that there was a meeting on click testing in images and click infrstructure
<plars> lool: that's exactly what it's about
<plars> lool: we're having regular status meetings about it
<lool> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1Ou5HTXaeqiGyDvPlvwJb02vazmNBhQy0S7sw12sJ084/edit?usp=drive_web
<lool> click testing task force  :-)
<plars> unfortunately this week is fairly well tied up with saucy beta for me, on top of all the image stuff
<lool> plars: awesome
<lool> plars: what about upgrade testing?
<plars> but doanac is doing a lot of the work on the ci side for this
<lool> plars: it's critical we have this in place to support production post 13.10
<barry> click and clack, the tappet brothers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_talk
<plars> for upgrade, we noticed that system-image-cli -i gives us a lot better info about what we've been upgraded to now
<lool> was it Javier on this?
<plars> lool: javier is qa, I have no idea what he's on
<barry> plars: yay!
<lool> hmm right, I guess I should have updated guests after the team split
<plars> there's the beginnings of a upgrade test in our branch, but it doesn't do much past upgrade
<lool> plars: who's on the hook for completing the upgrade test?
<lool> plars: basically we want to make sure that folks running latest public stable will be able to upgrade to next one
<plars> if I manage to get some spare time this week, we might see about fixing it to use -i, and really check the upgrade worked, but it's not running and would have to be set up as a completely separate job
<plars> since it has to do a (-#) install firswt
<lool> yes, it's a separate job
<plars> lool: no idea, you'd have to talk to jfunk about that
<lool> we even have a dedicated channel almost only for this job  :-)   well not anymore
<plars> lool: they maintain the tests still
<lool> plars: so you're getting the test from jfunk?
<plars> lool: a dedicated channel?
<plars> lool: jfunk is manager of the qa team
<lool> plars: originally the proposed channel was just for upgrade testing
<lool> plars: Ok; will grab jfunk on this, can I direct him at you for the CI infrastructure side?
<lool> or is that not adequate?
<plars> lool: really? I thought that was so that we could ci the image before marking it current
<plars> but ok
<plars> yep
<plars> me or andy
<lool> ok
<lool> I think I'm out of topics
<lool> did others have topics to bring up?
<lool> do we want a meeting only in 2 weeks, or next week?
<stgraber> nothing here
<barry> lool: given 3 weeks left, maybe weekly until release?
<lool> barry: +1
<lool> ok, will adjust invite
<lool> Thanks a lot folks for a quick and productive meeting!  I wish a good rocking end of week to all of you  :-)
 * lool waves
<barry> cheers
<hallyn> \o
<roaksoax> o/
<roaksoax> let's wait a few more minutes
<roaksoax> couple more minutes and we get started
<arosales> roaksoax, ack and thanks
<smoser> o/
<roaksoax> alright, let's get the party started!
<roaksoax> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 24 16:04:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is roaksoax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<roaksoax> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<roaksoax> smoser look at / assign bug 1206872 and bug 1156932
<ubottu> bug 1206872 in samba (Ubuntu Saucy) "samba fails to unpack (behavior change in patch) and ftbfs on aarch64" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206872
<ubottu> bug 1156932 in python-novaclient (Ubuntu Saucy) "User can't modify security-group-rule via nova-api if there are duplicated security group name" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1156932
<roaksoax> any updates?
<smoser> no updates. :-(
<smoser> please re-action
<roaksoax> ack!
<roaksoax> ACTION: smoser look at / assign bug 1206872 and bug 1156932
<ubottu> bug 1206872 in samba (Ubuntu Saucy) "samba fails to unpack (behavior change in patch) and ftbfs on aarch64" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206872
<ubottu> bug 1156932 in python-novaclient (Ubuntu Saucy) "User can't modify security-group-rule via nova-api if there are duplicated security group name" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1156932
<roaksoax> [ACTION] smoser look at / assign bug 1206872 and bug 1156932
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser look at / assign bug 1206872 and bug 1156932
<roaksoax> #topic Saucy Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Saucy Development
<roaksoax> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<roaksoax> so there's our release schedule
<roaksoax> #subtopic Release Bugs
<roaksoax> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<roaksoax> bug #1208455
<ubottu> bug 1208455 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "general protection fault running apt-get inside double nested kvm VM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208455
<roaksoax> smoser: any updates?
<roaksoax> err
<roaksoax> smb:
<hallyn> (smb is not in today, and he didn't mention his one)
<roaksoax> ah seems that smb is not here today
<hallyn> (not in right now that is)
<roaksoax> alright moving on
<roaksoax> bug #1213915
<ubottu> bug 1213915 in ceph (Ubuntu Saucy) "Please demote ceph-mds and ceph-fs-common to universe" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1213915
<roaksoax> i guess we wll see progress as soon as an archive admin can make it happen
<roaksoax> bug #1206872
<ubottu> bug 1206872 in samba (Ubuntu Saucy) "samba fails to unpack (behavior change in patch) and ftbfs on aarch64" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206872
<roaksoax> anyone from the server team willing to take on that one
<roaksoax> zul: ? maybe you since you've previously touched samba
<roaksoax> (or used to)
<zul> i can look i guess
<roaksoax> thank you
<roaksoax> bug #1156932
<ubottu> bug 1156932 in python-novaclient (Ubuntu Saucy) "User can't modify security-group-rule via nova-api if there are duplicated security group name" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1156932
<zul> no progress
<roaksoax> ack! thanks
<roaksoax> bug #1199791
<ubottu> bug 1199791 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "nova-compute-xcp misses nova-compute.conf" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199791
<roaksoax> zul: what about this oen?
<zul> no progress
<roaksoax> bug #1210054
<ubottu> bug 1210054 in juju-core (Ubuntu Saucy) "juju terminate-machine with local provider doesn't destroy machine" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210054
<roaksoax> jamespage: any updates?
<jamespage> not yet
<roaksoax> or maybe arosales knows of someone who should take care of this one instead
<roaksoax> alrighty
<roaksoax> bug #1223010
<ubottu> bug 1223010 in keystone (Ubuntu Saucy) "Use oauthlib rather than oauth." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223010
<roaksoax> zul: ?>
<arosales> roaksoax, I can investigate bug 1210054 for an owner
<zul> looked at it i dont think thats going to make it in for saucy
<roaksoax> arosales: awesom,e thank you
<roaksoax> zul: uhmm is it too big of a change?
<zul> roaksoax:  yeah
<arosales> hallyn, if you have an opportunity could you also throw in a comment in bug 1210054 ?
<ubottu> bug 1210054 in juju-core (Ubuntu Saucy) "juju terminate-machine with local provider doesn't destroy machine" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210054
<hallyn> uh, sure
<arosales> hallyn, thanks
<roaksoax> zul: ok boomer
<roaksoax> bug 1226871
<ubottu> bug 1226871 in python-troveclient (Ubuntu Saucy) "python-troveclient lists XS-Testsuite but packages no tests" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226871
<roaksoax> adam_g: any updates?
<adam_g> roaksoax, in progress. have a branch up for review to lp:~ubuntu-server-dev/python-troveclient/havana
<roaksoax> perfect! thank you!
<adam_g> https://code.launchpad.net/~gandelman-a/ubuntu/saucy/python-troveclient/1226871/+merge/187113
<roaksoax> volunteers to review are welcome :)
<roaksoax> bug 1227153
<ubottu> bug 1227153 in cinder (Ubuntu Saucy) "cinder missing build-depends on python-netaddr" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227153
<roaksoax> this one should be an easy one
<roaksoax> zul: ^^
<roaksoax> same as bug #1227167
<ubottu> bug 1227167 in python-cliff (Ubuntu Saucy) "python-cliff needs to raise Build-Depends on pyparsing to 2.0.0" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227167
<roaksoax> bug #1227353
<zul> roaksoax:  fixed, fixed
<ubottu> bug 1227353 in maas (Ubuntu Saucy) "Please promote maas-dns, maas-dhcp to main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227353
<roaksoax> waiting for archive admin
<roaksoax> zul: thanks! please update appropriately
<roaksoax> #subtopic Blueprints
<roaksoax> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html
<roaksoax> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-charmhelper2
<roaksoax> arosales: any updates you would like to share?
<arosales> roaksoax, hm . .  .
<roaksoax> since marco doens't seem to be around
<arosales> roaksoax, I think mathew wedgwood has been working on an api for charm helpers
<arosales> roaksoax, but for charm-tools marcoceppi is working on a 1.0 release and juju/stable currently has that and he is working on getting that into saucy, if possible
<roaksoax> awesome! thanks for the update
<arosales> roaksoax, that should cover charm tools and helper updates
<roaksoax> perfect!
<roaksoax> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-2-delivery
<roaksoax> jamespage: any updates?
<arosales> roaksoax, I'll follow up on [marcoceppi] Update charm tools to promote best practices wrt stubbing/libraries WITH TESTS: TODO with marco on the charmhelper2 bp
<jamespage> roaksoax, all going OK - FFe for 1.16 applied for
<roaksoax> arosales: thank you!
<roaksoax> jamespage: awesome!
<roaksoax> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-charms-ha-v2
<roaksoax> no new progress
<roaksoax> james is taking care of percona charm
<roaksoax> i still have to work on the haproxy stuff (but past 3 weeks in training so couldn't move forward)
<roaksoax> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-ceph
<roaksoax> jamespage: ^^
<jamespage> roaksoax, all good - apart from the radosgw agents for geo-replication
<jamespage> I've not had time to look in detail but they look a bit early days for 13.10 inclusion
<roaksoax> i guess we just have to keep an eye on it
<roaksoax> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-simplestreams
<roaksoax> smoser: updates?
<smoser> i'll update now.
<roaksoax> smoser: thank you!
<roaksoax> but there seems to be good progress and things looking great
<roaksoax> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-qa
<roaksoax> zul: ^^ any updates?
<zul> ill update it
<roaksoax> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-havana
<roaksoax> same as ^^ if there's updates please
<roaksoax> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-mongodb
<zul> ditto
<roaksoax> jamespage: so we still blocked with mongodb?
<jamespage> roaksoax, yeah - it won't make main this cycle
<roaksoax> alrighty
<roaksoax> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-charms
<roaksoax> adam_g: any updates?
<roaksoax> in me meantime:
<roaksoax> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-virtstack
<roaksoax> hallyn: any updateS?
<hallyn> not really, all going well
<roaksoax> perfect!
<roaksoax> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-cloud-archive
<roaksoax> jamespage: how's the CA looking?
<jamespage> roaksoax, OK
<jamespage> I've been testing today with whats in staging
<roaksoax> the cloud-tools pocket is WIP, and things are lookging good too
<roaksoax> awesome!
<jamespage> mainly hitting charm compat issues due to name changes quantum-> neutron
<jamespage> but niggles
<roaksoax> alriught, so that's easy to fix i guess then
<roaksoax> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-hypervisor
<roaksoax> finalle
<roaksoax> zul: ^^
<zul> needs updating
<roaksoax> tjamls!
<roaksoax> thanks
<roaksoax> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<roaksoax> psivaa: any updates for us?
<psivaa> no update from us
<psivaa> hallyn fixed the lxc bug already :)
<roaksoax> awesome!
<roaksoax> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
 * hallyn raises his hand
<roaksoax> smb is not around
<hallyn> smb says,
<hallyn> he's working on the raring xen mre,
<hallyn> and he is looking at bug 1185756 but needs to set up an environment to reproduce in
<ubottu> bug 1185756 in drbd8 (Ubuntu Precise) "drbd8-utils not compatible with linux-lts-raring kernel in 12.04" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1185756
<hallyn> (that's all)
<roaksoax> awesome thank you!
<roaksoax> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<roaksoax> rbasak in holidays.. anyone might have something?
<roaksoax> i guess not
<roaksoax> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<roaksoax> any event's coming up other than ODS in november?
<zul> openstack in action in montreal on the oct 8
<roaksoax> zul: yaay you representing us then?
<zul> roaksoax:  im not giving any presenation but ill be there
<roaksoax> cool
<arosales> roaksoax, we had jcastro and maroceppi at  Ohio Texas Linux Fest and LinuxCon, respectively these past weekends
<arosales> roaksoax, charm school this Friday
<arosales> Charm School: How to submit your bundle for the charm championship :-)
<arosales> more details @ https://juju.ubuntu.com/events/
<roaksoax> that's great!
<roaksoax> hurray for jcastro and marcoceppi
<roaksoax> so let;'s mover on
<roaksoax> move on*
<roaksoax> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<roaksoax> anyone hjas anything to add?
<arosales> roaksoax, I also updated the agenda before the meeting to have a new item.
<arosales> roaksoax, if you referesh https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<arosales> do you see "Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)"
<roaksoax> arosales: now i SEE
<roaksoax> see*
<roaksoax> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<arosales> I need to add that to the copy/paste commands now that I think of it
<roaksoax> caribou: any updates?
 * arosales updates copy/paste now . . .
<roaksoax> arosales: :)
<caribou> well, this is mostly an introduction for this week
<caribou> just some specific cloud & server bugs which would need some attention from CTS engineering team
<caribou> but I don't have anything specific for this week, thanks
<roaksoax> caribou: please go for it if you have any
<roaksoax> ok
<roaksoax> perfect then!
<roaksoax> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<roaksoax> same day time
<arosales> thanks caribou
<roaksoax> thanks all for coming
<arosales> roaksoax, thanks for chairing
<roaksoax> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 24 16:38:18 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-24-16.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-24-16.04.html
<roaksoax> arosales: my pleasure
<caribou> arosales: :-)
<arosales> Server IRC commands updated
<roaksoax> arosales: thank you!
<arosales> roaksoax, np.
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 24 17:00:17 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Saucy
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ogasawara> o/
<cking> \o
<ppisati> \o/
<arges> o/
<sconklin_> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> The flash-kernel dtb concatenation patch finally landed in the archive, while
<ppisati> support for TI AM35XX and bug fixing for the rest of the socs
<ppisati> (omap3/4, imx, etc) continues.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || foundations-1305-arm64-bringup     || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || cking     || foundations-1308-power-measurement || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-s-virtstack            || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || servercloud-s-openstack-hypervisor || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We've remained rebased on a v3.11.1 kernel for Saucy and the archive is
<ogasawara> currently frozen for Final Beta this Thurs Sept 26.  Any uploads will
<ogasawara> need to be cleared with the Ubuntu Release Team.  Additionally, Ubuntu Kernel Freeze is ~1 week away, Thurs Oct 03.  Any patches submitted
<ogasawara> after Kernel Freeze will be subject to our SRU policy.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Sep 26 - Final Beta (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 03 - Kernel Freeze (~1 week away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 10 - Final Freeze (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 17 - 13.10 Release (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> == 2013-09-24 ==
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Sept. 24):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   * Raring  - Verification & Testing
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 24 17:04:28 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-24-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-24-17.00.html
<kkg2005> hello there
<kkg2005> please help me where i can found help about ubuntu,
<kkg2005> ,
<kkg2005> ?
<mapreri> !support | kkg2005
<ubottu> kkg2005: The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org and http://askubuntu.com
<kkg2005> senku
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-09-25
<stokachu> o/
<stokachu> slangasek: no meeting today?
<slangasek> stokachu: afraid not, we've had to move the meeting to Thursday... you should've gotten the google calendar notification
<stokachu> ok lemme check, im currently moving my account to gmail
<stokachu> slangasek: thanks i see it
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-09-26
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 26 15:03:28 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> ev stokachu doko barry cjwatson jodh stgraber xnox bdmurray slangasek
<slangasek> and ev is on vacation this week
<slangasek> stokachu: hi there :)
<stokachu> hey!
<doko> that means, short meeting =)
<stokachu> bug 1207123 - verification done, bug 995719 - needs upload, done.
<ubottu> bug 1207123 in gnutls26 (Ubuntu Quantal) "Key usage violation in certificate has been detected" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1207123
<ubottu> bug 995719 in puppet (Ubuntu Precise) "process_name.rb removed in 2.7.11 but still provided by puppet-common" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/995719
<doko> stokachu, are you finished?
<slangasek> anyone here speak ruby who could verify that puppet SRU and sponsor it? :)
<stokachu> doko: yea sorry i had done. at the end
<doko> meh, yes, I can look at that one
<stokachu> doko <3 ruby? :P
<doko> - fixed native gcc-4.7 bootstrap on aarch64
<doko> - one last gcc-4.8 update for saucy
<doko> - investigated an interaction of ld 2.24 and --as-needed or static linking
<doko>   http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2013-09/msg00196.html
<doko> - MIR processing
<doko> - fixing build failures for packages in main, didn't count ...
<ubottu> gcc.gnu.org bug 2013 in c++ "g++ 2.96: typedefs + namespaces + inheritance == problem" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<doko> - aarch64 porting meeting
<doko> - fix pythonX.Y autopkg test failures
<doko> ubottu, you are wrong
<ubottu> doko: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<doko> (end)
<barry> lp: #1196991
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1196991 in Ubuntu system image "Support the new download dbus service" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196991
<barry> done
<barry> ;)
<stgraber> ;)
<cjwatson> Click:
<cjwatson>  * Arranged to run system hooks when removing packages (bug 1227681).
<cjwatson>  * Sped up system and session startup when many packages are installed (bug 1227604).
<ubottu> bug 1227681 in click (Ubuntu) "dangling symlinks in /var/lib/apparmor/clicks" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227681
<cjwatson>  * Filtered out VCS metadata (bug 1223640).
<ubottu> bug 1227604 in lxc-android-config (Ubuntu) "Boot speed is significantly affected by installing apps" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227604
<cjwatson>  * PackageKit API tidy-up and enhancements to show removability.
<ubottu> bug 1223640 in click (Ubuntu) "Version control meta directories should be filtered out" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223640
<cjwatson>  * Implemented unregistration of preinstalled packages.
<cjwatson> OEM bugs:
<cjwatson>  * Cleaned up most of the rest of bug 1065281.  Now reported to work at least in saucy.
<ubottu> bug 1065281 in OEM Priority Project quantal "Installer crashed when trying to partition 4k/4k sector hard disks" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1065281
<cjwatson> Launchpad:
<cjwatson>  * Worked on some build slave crashes / bad failure modes (bug 993642, bug 1227086 - the latter exposed by the test rebuild).
<ubottu> bug 993642 in launchpad-buildd "Breaks if the build doesn't produce the expected changes file" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993642
<cjwatson> Miscellaneous:
<ubottu> bug 1227086 in launchpad-buildd "Slaves on 32-bit architectures crash on >2GiB build logs" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227086
<cjwatson>  * Backported a fix for bug 1193136, an irritation when trying to use w3m/precise with Launchpad.
<ubottu> bug 1193136 in Canonical SSO provider "launchpad login service doesn't render in w3m (<= precise)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193136
<cjwatson>  * Analysed Edubuntu livefs build failure; turned out to be a subtle bug in livecd-rootfs (as well as an arguable bug in indicator-sound packaging).
<cjwatson>  * Worked with IS to migrate ubuntu-archive jobs from lillypilly to new machine (snakefruit).  Much faster, yay.
<cjwatson>  * Fixed readthedocs.org to handle bzr branches with tags again, for click.readthedocs.org.
<cjwatson>  * Some NBS tidy-up.
<cjwatson>  * Organised travel to client sprint.
<cjwatson> ..
<jodh> * Upstart:
<jodh> *** Working on bug 1227212
<jodh> ***** Improved session shutdown time dramatically.
<jodh> ***** Currently updating tests and checking all code paths.
<jodh> *** Presented on Upstart at LinuxCon North America and Linux Plumbers last week.
<ubottu> bug 1227212 in upstart "Session logout takes too long" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227212
<jodh>     Slides and LaTeX source:
<jodh>     http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/presentations/LPC13/
<jodh> * Misc:
<jodh> *** Travelling Monday (and day off Tuesday to recover :)
<jodh> ê
<jodh>  
<stgraber> Blueprint-related work:
<stgraber>  - Image based updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1305-image-based-updates)
<stgraber>    - Landed the rewritten server code, everything appears to work as expected
<stgraber>    - Discussed the changes required to run private system-image servers (also applies to ports)
<stgraber>    - Reworked the list of channels and channel aliases
<stgraber>    - Updated the specification on the wiki
<stgraber>  - LXC
<stgraber>    - Serge and I are the new maintainers
<stgraber>    - Busy moving everything from sourceforge to github, working on a new website, ...
<stgraber>    - Code reviews
<stgraber>    - Working on implementing the container autostart specification
<stgraber>    - Proposed some cross-distro templates improvement for 1.0
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - Linux Plumbers 2013
<stgraber>   - Organized the Containers mini-summit (waiting for video recording to be released)
<stgraber>   - Attended the Secure Boot mini-summit
<stgraber>   - Quite a lot of interesting hallway (and bar) discussions
<stgraber>  - Other
<stgraber>   - Various additions to writable-paths in Ubuntu Touch
<stgraber>   - Debugged a few issues related to upstart on current touch images
<stgraber>   - Tried to figure out what's wrong with the shutdown sequence that'd cause /userdata to remain writable, leading to dataloss
<stgraber>   - Wrote a draft spec for boot time hooks for touch
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> TODO (hopefully this week):
<stgraber>  - Update wiki documentation for system-image
<stgraber>  - Try to prioritize the system-image client work so we have all the bits we really need in 13.10
<stgraber>  - Write a slightly more user friendly tool to release an image from saucy-proposed to saucy
<stgraber>  - Spend some more time debugging the filesystem unmount sequence, fixing anything that needs fixing
<stgraber>  - LXC upstream work (some more bugs to move to github, website work, ...)
<stgraber> (DONE)
<xnox> * added logind/pam session support to ubiquity, closing off a few bugs
<xnox>   for beta images
<xnox> * proposed ubuntu-touch & ubuntu-sdk seed restructure
<xnox> * working on emulator, now mounting some filesystems
<xnox>   (mknod to the rescue, to get me mtdblock device nodes)
<xnox> * gave upstart talks with james at plumbers/linuxcon, they went well
<xnox>   (a few comments / bug reports gathered from discussions there)
<xnox> done.
<bdmurray> bug triage of iso-testing bug reports
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader cruft cleanup
<bdmurray> research into update-notifier crash notification for things that have already been reported (bug 1229856)
<ubottu> bug 1229856 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "kernel oops results in apport-gtk launching for every .crash file" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229856
<bdmurray> research into update-manager bug 1223815, bug 1223321
<ubottu> bug 1223815 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "At session start it always alert me: "system updated"" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223815
<ubottu> bug 1223321 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier notifies of phased-updates for which you may not be eligible" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223321
<bdmurray> fixed ubuntu-release-uprader bug 1210643
<ubottu> bug 1210643 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Saucy) "UnsupportedDialog not displayed for an unsupported release" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210643
<bdmurray> uploaded aptitude with fix for bug 923876
<ubottu> bug 923876 in aptitude (Ubuntu Quantal) "FR: Limit and clean-up kernel images and headers automatically in LTS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/923876
<bdmurray> reported ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1225016 (supported meta packages)
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 1226776 regarding linux package hook uname check
<bdmurray> investigation into bug 917339 and lvremove bug
<bdmurray> investigation into bug 1024590
<ubottu> bug 1225016 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "code disagrees about supported metapackages" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1225016
<bdmurray> SRU verification of bug 923876
<ubottu> bug 1226776 in apport (Ubuntu) "linux package hook checks uname for KernelOops" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226776
<ubottu> bug 917339 in schroot (Ubuntu) "10mount: umount: /<<CHROOT>>/dev: device is busy" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/917339
<ubottu> bug 1024590 in update-manager (Ubuntu Saucy) "update-manager crashed with AttributeError in _on_download_changed(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'get_value'" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1024590
<bdmurray> testing kernels for bug 1218004
<ubottu> bug 1218004 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "Apple Wireless Trackpad causes kernel oops" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1218004
<bdmurray> done
<slangasek> ah, we're to me already :)
<slangasek>  * LinuxCon, Linux Plumbers Conference, UEFI Plugfest
<slangasek>   * kudos to jodh and xnox for their presentations at the conference; they led to a number of good discussions about some easy wins that would help folks trying to use upstart in the wild
<slangasek>   * lots of work on UEFI/SecureBoot: fixes to shim netboot support (v4 and v6), merged upstream and landed in saucy, RT filed to get this submitted to SysDev and signed by MS
<slangasek>   * learned that edk2's FAT driver is non-free, overlooked a license addendum when preparing the package the first time around; now moved to non-free in Debian and mulitverse in Ubuntu, so qemu doesn't get to depend on it
<slangasek>  * poking at the system-image test suite to try to work around the behavior of ubuntu-download-manager, apparently it's really hard to run a test suite when your test http server takes 2 minutes to timeout open connections
<slangasek>  * today: beta release notes
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> any questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Final Beta
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Final Beta
<slangasek> so the release notes are always the bit that gets done last
<barry> the python 3.3 release note looks fine
<slangasek> those of you who still have time left in your day today, please take a little of that time to help get the ISO testing bugs from http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/303/builds documented in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseNotes
<slangasek> and if there are cool things that we've added in saucy that you think should also be there, please add them as well!
<doko> I don't think toolchain bits are cool enough
<slangasek> doko: you want to upload gcc 4.8 to make it cooler? :)
<doko> slangasek, xnox wants me to fix one more thing ...
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else here?
<slangasek> did anyone think of a topic they'd like to present on today?
<xnox> doko++ =)
<barry> xnox: that's actually ++doko
<doko> just keep fixing build failures ...
<doko> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20130917-saucy.html
<doko> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> clearing NBS and as much of proposed-migration as can be done would help too
<cjwatson> one thing I forgot to mention: I changed proposed-migration so that the excuses are sorted by age (well, at one-day granularity, and alphabetically within that)
<cjwatson> so when you're trying to clear out long-standing entries, you can more easily ignore noise from things uploaded recently
<cjwatson> I find things sort of in the middle are usually the most fertile ground
<slangasek> oh, nice!
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 26 15:29:48 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-26-15.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-26-15.03.html
<doko> cjwatson, slangasek: would like to upload anew graphviz upstream, letting us get rid of lua5.1 in main
<barry> thanks!
<slangasek> that's all, folks
<jodh> thanks!
<slangasek> doko: probably should be an FFe bug?
<cjwatson> I guess I wonder whether getting rid of lua5.1 in main is a pressing problem
<cjwatson> but yeah, FFe
<stgraber> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-09-29
<AlanBell> #startmeeting IRC team
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Sep 29 19:59:43 2013 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic:
<TheLordOfTime> o/
<phunyguy> o/
<AlanBell> hi all, thanks for popping along, here is the agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<topyli> o/
<IdleOne> o/
<Pici> â«
<Pici> oops, silly autocomplete
<topyli> :)
<AlanBell> heh, ok, so lets get started
<AlanBell> #topic Review last meetings action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Review last meetings action items
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/IRCC/20130825 is the last minutes, and I had an action
<AlanBell> which was to look into cloaks, and here is the results . . .
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6172733/
<AlanBell> so that is people who are in the list of people we think we gave a cloak to, but who are not in ubuntumembers any more
<Pici> hmm
<AlanBell> and I tweaked the script a bit to output IRC nicks as well as launchpad names
<AlanBell> there are 35 of them I think
<TheLordOfTime> 36 if i'm counting right.
<AlanBell> some may not be using the cloak now, some may have forgotten to press the renew button, some might need an unaffiliated cloak
<AlanBell> yeah, could be 36, there were about that and I dealt with one, maybe there were 37 initially
<Pici> There are at least one or two on there that look like they might have forgotten to renew
<AlanBell> so, from that list does anything leap out at people as hugely wrong, or some kind of issue we should be careful with?
<Pici> well, soren is on there, and I'm pretty sure hes still active.
<IdleOne> soren just expired this past week
<IdleOne> probably busy and forgot to click the button
<Pici> uh, from the team?
<IdleOne> yeah
<IdleOne> this week or last. I remember seeing the email
<Pici> I almost thought you were using the other meaning of expired there for a second.
<Pici> Hospital work is rubbing off of me :/
<phunyguy> he is in here, but idle.
<AlanBell> :)
<IdleOne> Pici: I would not have been so emotionless about it :)
<AlanBell> that is actually one reason I am throwing the list up here for review before trying to contact them individually
<IdleOne> AlanBell: there is no way for you to get dates of when they membersips expired?
<IdleOne> memberships*
<Pici> There should be, its just not being output.
<AlanBell> hmm, no, not really (but you could)
<AlanBell> I can't see expired memberships in ~ubuntumembers
<Myrtti> well, you can take Andre from the list of people to be contacted...
<IdleOne> I think anyone who has been expired for 30+ days you could just go ahead and remove from the team. they can always be re-added later if/when they ask.
<Myrtti> n'est pas
<AlanBell> however, I don't think it matters too much
<Pici> Myrtti: ah. yes :(
<AlanBell> it isn't about removing them from the team, it is removing the cloak
<IdleOne> right
<AlanBell> and we tend to ask if they want an unaffiliated one instead
<Pici> Myrtti: thanks for catching that. :(
<Myrtti> Pici: well, since you mentioned the other meaning for "expired"...
<Pici> yea. .. :/
<topyli> :(
<phunyguy> :(
<AlanBell> :( indeed
<IdleOne> Well this escalated quickly :(
<IdleOne> alright, so yeah, contact people and ask if they want to renew membership or change cloak
<funkyHat> Hi people, sorry I'm late
<AlanBell> so, we will process the list, contacting and removing cloaks as we go, and this is exactly why I wanted to wave the list about first for review
<AlanBell> ok, moving on
<topyli> hi funkyHat
<AlanBell> #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Open items in the IRCC tracker
<IdleOne> hello funkyHat
<AlanBell> now here we have screwed up slightly, there were a couple of very stale items in the tracker, it stopped emailing us when we did that silly thing where it was constantly raising tickets for every email that happened
<AlanBell> I think the items that are there are no longer relevant but we need to be better at using the tracker if we are going to have it :/
<Pici> agreed
<Pici> We should be more dilligent about manually putting items in there too.
<Pricey> Items? I only see one. #887544 ?
<Pici> I think we're talking about the private tracker.
<AlanBell> different tracker
<Pricey> Sneaky.
<TheLordOfTime> heh
<topyli> Pricey: this is our secret tracker where we talk about you behind your back
<IdleOne> under your nose
<AlanBell> yeah, it is an appeals tracker of sorts, private because it relates to specific people and wasn't considered suitable for launchpad bug process
<AlanBell> lvmer and itoast are the nicks concerned in the issues
<AlanBell> lvmer wasn't actually banned
<Pici> if you don't remember them, its because they're stale... very stale.
<IdleOne> if they concern me in any way just go ahead and drop them.
<AlanBell> so, we will close them, check the tracker is working correctly and move on I think
<Pici> heh
<IdleOne> you have my permission :)
<phunyguy> mine too...
<phunyguy> ;)
<Pici> So whats up next?
<AlanBell> #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
<AlanBell> not got any bugs apart from the incomplete one, which is still a bit open
<topyli> we have one bug, which might as well be closed WONTFIX. no-one has come up with great ideas
<AlanBell> I can't close it wontfix
<AlanBell> opinion will have to do
<topyli> oh yes i'm confusing launchpad with bugzilla
<Pricey> #887544 reads pretty silly to me. You can't aim to remove all bans within X days...
<AlanBell> there is a won't fix status, but I can't use it
<TheLordOfTime> AlanBell, bug supervisors for the community project need to set it
<TheLordOfTime> limitation of the LP bug tracker system
<AlanBell> Pricey: it was more that we didn't have any statistics on it, but agreed, it isn't a useful metric even if we could measure it
<AlanBell> #topic Logging and the irclogs.ubuntu.com archive
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Logging and the irclogs.ubuntu.com archive
<AlanBell> So just to frame this discussion and set expectations a bit, someone raised an issue on the IRC discussions mailing list that they were concerned about conversations that they had in the past being available on the web and indexed by search engines.
<AlanBell> that conversation may be viewed here https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2013-September/thread.html
<AlanBell> We probably won't be deciding any specific actions today, but this is an opportunity to bring the conversation about IRC into the medium of IRC, and we can perhaps figure out if there are any proposals that are worth further discussion.
<AlanBell> so, open to the floor, what do people think about this?
<TheLordOfTime> My two-cents on the issue are that the person involved is far too concerned about their own privacy
<Fuchs> People are informed that the channel is publically logged
<Pici> I'm not really sure why IRC logging is a problem when the Forum archives are preserved for posterity as well.
<AlanBell> oh, also the whole "bug comments on launchpad" bit is out of scope for us
<Fuchs> there are lots of places both on the internet and in real life where you can't request that content is removed
<Pricey> TheLordOfTime: That's not reasonable.
<TheLordOfTime> I've been on IRC here for a long while, and as Fuchs pointed out, there's notices that the channel is publicly logged.
<Fuchs> if they have an issue with that, they shouldn't be on IRC.
<TheLordOfTime> Pricey, that's one of the points I think and you're right it is unreasonable.
<Pici> I'm curious if the forums have their own policy about content removal.
<Fuchs> The benefits of that  (people being able to find problems and their solutions via google and similar) are _way_ bigger than the downsides, so I'd say: keep logging as usual
<Pricey> TheLordOfTime: No, I think you're being unreasonable to say they are "too concerned".
<TheLordOfTime> Pricey, equally unreasonable is the expectation of removal of their own items per request from the logs, and that the logs should be private.
<Myrtti> I can't remember if I said it already somewhere, but as long as the joins/parts/quits/nicks with hostmasks are removed, it doesn't really matter
<TheLordOfTime> Pricey, then perhaps my wording was bad
<Pici> Myrtti: I think you did.. somewhere.
<Pici> I remember reading it at least ;)
<TheLordOfTime> Pricey, regardless, it's generally unreasonable, I think, that the channel's logs should be considered a medium for cyber-stalking per their arguments.
<Myrtti> anyone can use a random char generator to generate a nickname for themselves for each time they use IRC if they're concerned about the privacy of the logs
<AlanBell> I think we would be prepared to edit the logs in exceptional circumstances (like someone Doxing a minor)
<TheLordOfTime> (I can say the same about LP, but that's a discussion for elsewhere)
<Fuchs> I am not sure about the english forums, ubuntuusers.de definitely has the  "no, we won't" policy. We've been recently asked to remove content  (change the name of someone in every single posting it was mentioned), which was simply turned down.
<AlanBell> and yes, we don't log joins/parts
<TheLordOfTime> AlanBell, I agree with you there, super exceptional circumstances are different.
<Pici> As much as we hate to admit it, there isn't much we could do if someone else wanted to publish their own chat logs of the channel.
<TheLordOfTime> Agreed, accordingly, I also believe that there's no expectation of privacy in a publicly-able-to-be-joined IRC channel.
<TheLordOfTime> if the channel were +i, and semi-private, that'd be a different story
<AlanBell> one of the proposals was to put a robots.txt in place to encourage search engines to not index it, what do you think about that?
<Fuchs> against it. As I wrote, the main reason of that _is_ that they are indexed,
<phunyguy> easily exploitable.
<Pricey> AlanBell: I think you covered that well in your mail.
<Pici> Fuchs: +1
<Fuchs> so that people can find conversations, including support, to a given problem
<TheLordOfTime> Fuchs: +1 here
<topyli> indexing is why the logs are useful
<Myrtti> I think it's actually an asset we publish the logs
<Myrtti> it disincentives someone else publishing them
<Flannel> Even if we decided to support the robots.txt, we'd need to get the support of *all* channels, including -devel, -meeting, and all the loco teams, because the logs are all together.
<topyli> Myrtti: that's true also
<TheLordOfTime> valid point, Flannel.
<AlanBell> Flannel: actually no, you can do wildcards in robots.txt
<Pricey> Does the ircc even have control over irclogs.ubuntu.com ?
<Pici> Not directly.
<IdleOne> How many thousands of nicks are logged and indexed without issue? I think this topic has already been given way too much attention. I respect the concerns of the individual but I don't think we need to change how things are because of one individual.
<AlanBell> so a single channel could be excluded, it is a slightly nonstandard syntax but google supports it
<TheLordOfTime> I'm going to agree with IdleOne's opinion 100%.  I'm not sure the arguments brought up in the ML by the individual are entirely supported by evidence...
<AlanBell> Pricey: I expect we could arrange for a robots.txt to be put in place or any other changes under discussion if we wanted to do so
<Flannel> AlanBell: Just because google supports it doesn't mean everyone does.  And, to that point, means that a private mirror/index wouldn't either, so I think robots.txt is an ineffective solution to begin with, someone malicious can easily circumvent it.
<phunyguy> indeed.  Everything you want to hide, in plain text, in a single file.
<Pricey> AlanBell: Makes me find this amusing..
<topyli> i for one am greatly amused when i find my embarrassing mailing list and usenet contributions from the 90s when searching for stuff :)
<Myrtti> I think it's hilarous
<Flannel> phunyguy: Forget everything you want to hide, just wget all of #ubuntu.txt and grep yourself.  It's trivial.
<phunyguy> indeed.
<phunyguy> (I don't really know how the logs are set up, I just know what robots.txt is)
<Pricey> phunyguy: irclogs.ubuntu.com
<Pici> So, unless the CC has a different take on things, I think we're all in a agreement here
<AlanBell> it takes a while and is rather big (yes, I have wget'd quite a lot of it in the past)
<IdleOne> yeah, topic closed.
<AlanBell> yup, ok, thanks very much everyone, lets move on
<funkyHat> Yep
<AlanBell> #topic Membership applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Membership applications
<AlanBell> we do have an application from phunyguy
 * phunyguy flexes
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phunyguy
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~robtongue
<AlanBell> so, tell us about yourself phunyguy
<phunyguy> Well I had been an Ubuntu user for quute a few years, starting in 2007.
<phunyguy> Only found IRC a couple years back, and never left.
<phunyguy> (how in depth do I need to go?)
<phunyguy> Married, one kid, Systems Engineer at a local grocery chain...
<topyli> your wiki page has the story laid out pretty well
<IdleOne> IRCC May I ask a question of phunyguy ?
<topyli> sure
<IdleOne> phunyguy: Why do you want to be an Ubuntu member?
<funkyHat> For the shiny certificate, surely
<phunyguy> IdleOne: because I feel like I am a contributor, and I really like just about everyone in here.  Would make me feel a bit more like I am part of the team.
<phunyguy> (cheesy?)
<Fuchs> (yes)
<phunyguy> (sorry..)
<IdleOne> little bit, but honest.
<phunyguy> it's the truth though.
<phunyguy> probably brings some more respect, also, like me being there means something.
<phunyguy> I am trying to earn it, and this would help.
<IdleOne> So I don't have a vote here but I am +1 for approval. I think phunyguy is an asset to the community, especially in the offtopic channel.
<phunyguy> Also I know this doesn't go hand in hand, but I would like to start contributing as a chanop at some point, when I get a little better at catalyzing.
<Pricey> IdleOne: Is #ubuntu-offtopic really important for Ubuntu Membership through the IRC Team?
<AlanBell> so, looking at the wiki and launchpad page, I see some contributions to ubuntu in terms of bug comments and suchlike
<topyli> phunyguy: you chose to apply through the ircc instead of your local loco council. do you feel your contributions are mostly related to irc work?
<AlanBell> I would like to see some testimonials, I think that area is lacking
<phunyguy> topyli: yes, 90%
<IdleOne> Pricey: IMHO yes. The channel is not support oriented, but ubuntu isn't all about the tech stuff.
<phunyguy> I do go into #ubuntu when I can, and help. Have been for a couple years now.
<AlanBell> phunyguy: are you involved in your loco team at all?
<phunyguy> AlanBell: no. :( All IRC so far.
<phunyguy> I can change that...
<Fuchs> <comment>  I think it's a shame that there aren't any testimonials, I certainly would have written one. I agree with IdleOne on the -offtopic point, and I'd support phunyguys application </comment>
<Pici> It looks like there are at least a few people here that would be willing to provide testimonials.
<IdleOne> Pricey: the offtopic channel needs more good people who care about the CoC and the guidelines to help maintain the community
<topyli> i agree with the importance of -ot. my own membership is mostly due to -ot work :)
<IdleOne> IF it is necessary I'll copy paste what I said in here onto the wiki page, but I think the fact that I stayed awake for this meeting (usually my nap time) says something
<Pricey> (Are there even enough IRCC'ers here?)
<funkyHat> I think so
<Pricey> Whoops yes sorry, just spotted teh 3rd)
<AlanBell> #voters AlanBell Pici topyli funkyHat Tm_T
<meetingology> Current voters: AlanBell Pici Tm_T funkyHat topyli
<AlanBell> #vote membership application for phunyguy
<meetingology> Please vote on: membership application for phunyguy
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Pici> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Pici
<AlanBell> +0 generally positive impression, but come back with testimonials, and maybe apply to be an op
<meetingology> +0 generally positive impression, but come back with testimonials, and maybe apply to be an op received from AlanBell
<Pricey> Grepping my logs I'm not sure I'd call #ubuntu activity consistent.
<Pici> I echo  what AlanBell said.  I can't really give an approval with no testimonials.
<topyli> -1 but definitely come back
<meetingology> -1 but definitely come back received from topyli
<Pici> Membership isn't a prerequesite for operator-ship (-hood?, thing?)
<phunyguy> I know.... Maybe I should do that first then.
<funkyHat> +0 likewise, but please do come back, and I agree that you should apply to be an op.
<meetingology> +0 likewise, but please do come back, and I agree that you should apply to be an op. received from funkyHat
<AlanBell> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: membership application for phunyguy
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:1 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Motion denied
<topyli> awww i'm the bad guy
 * Pici pats topyli 
<phunyguy> naah, it's all good.  Thanks for the opportunity
<AlanBell> so not right now, phunyguy, sorry about that, but please do consider joining the operator team, you don't need to be an Ubuntu member to do that
<AlanBell> phunyguy: https://launchpad.net/~irc-ubuntu-offtopic-ops
<AlanBell> or one of the other channels
<phunyguy> I will do that.
<Pici> Many of us didn't become members until after being ops.
<Pici> Like Myrtti and I.
<IdleOne> same here
<Pici> and that IdleOne character.
<IdleOne> I was an op first
 * phunyguy has never been an op anywhere
<IdleOne> good, you don't have bad habits from other places
<AlanBell> :)
<AlanBell> ok, lets move on
<Myrtti> let me send you a questionnaire, it assesses how mental case you are
<IdleOne> click that link.
<IdleOne> lol
<Pici> ;)
<funkyHat> hehehe
<AlanBell> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Any Other Business
<Myrtti> if you are, your qualifications match
<phunyguy> did, reading.
<AlanBell> any other things people want to discuss at this time?
<TheLordOfTime> one tiny thing, just a comment really
<Pici> sure
<TheLordOfTime> AlanBell, i'd like to give ikonia a public congrats on coordinating with the ZNC service I provide, in making sure that users who abuse the services in the Ubuntu channels are reported accordingly
<AlanBell> \o/
<TheLordOfTime> i know it's a tiny thing but ikonia's a very good "role model" of what a good channel op is.  :)
<IdleOne> yay for good processes and following them
<AlanBell> yeah, I noticed some of that coordination going on
<Pici> yay
<topyli> great
<TheLordOfTime> just wanted that to be on the public records.  :)
<AlanBell> and conversly, it is great to have someone who provides a ZNC service working well with our team too
<TheLordOfTime> AlanBell, that's what ikonia said!  :D
<Pici> Agreed.
<IdleOne> kinda doesn't have a choice seeing how TheLordOfTime is an ubuntu member :P
<AlanBell> :)
<AlanBell> ok, any other other busines?
<IdleOne> but we appreciate the service and the help you give us when we have issues
<Pici> I have nothing.
<TheLordOfTime> thanks, IdleOne :)
<phunyguy> Thanks everyone.
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Sep 29 20:57:52 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-29-19.59.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-29-19.59.html
<AlanBell> thanks all
<funkyHat> Thank you
<Pici> thanks everyone
<topyli> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-22
<ScottK> xnox: Clearcase has nothing to do with the best.  You are correct.
<bdrung_work> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<Laney> aiiiieeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEE
<Mirv> o/
<bdmurray> \o
<ScottK> \o/
<ScottK> michag said he wouldn't be able to make it.
<ScottK> That leaves bdrung_work, xnox, and stgraber
<bdrung_work> i'm here
<stgraber> I'm around
<ScottK> That makes a quorum then.
<ScottK> bdmurray: Aren't you up for chair today?
<ScottK> Or maybe I'm reading it wrong and it's micahg.
 * ScottK seizes the day.
<ScottK> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 22 15:08:27 2014 UTC.  The chair is ScottK. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<ScottK> #info Review of previous action items
<ScottK> Don't see any.
<ScottK> #info Applications - Timo Jyrinki
<ScottK> Mirv: Can you tell us a bit about yourself and why you're applying for MOTU?
<ScottK> #topic Applications - Timo Jyrinki
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Applications - Timo Jyrinki
<ScottK> (there we go)
<Mirv> I'm a DD since 2008 and I've had PPU rights since last year to Qt packages
 * xnox o/
<Mirv> I'd like to have MOTU rights to be more able to handle the CI Train landings (a portion of them) and to be able to do patch piloting in a sane way
<Mirv> in the past I've tried to eg. help Xubuntu and Ubuntu Studio guys, but it's a bit hard since eventually I've needed a sponsorer
<ScottK> Do you do much in the way of non-CI train managed uploads?
 * Mirv also just managed to catch a bus in a rain with laptop open and it's not broken
<Mirv> ScottK: I would do on my patch pilot shifts in the future. otherwise generally not much, since everything I do related to Ubuntu phone efforts tends to go through silos.
<ScottK> OK.
<Mirv> for the train landings, MOTU would help me to approve universe packaging changes without consuming other MOTUs or core-devs' time
<ScottK> How can we make the Qt5 process better with Debian?  It seems like Ubuntu is always behind and we end up with packages that are autosynced, but not buildable.
<Mirv> ScottK: it's hard to predict the future. when the phone effort started squeezing down on feature releases and 5.3.0 seemed to work for us very well, it seemed less risky to cherry-pick fixes instead of going for 5.3.1
<ScottK> And now we're going to release 14.10 two releases behind.
<Mirv> 5.3.2 is now out and I've started working on that again, but it'd be for the start of v-series
<Mirv> the original problem is that Ubuntu phone efforts have a very heavy QA and 0 regressions policy, which makes it harder to do timely transitions compared to Debian
<Mirv> notably our 5.3.0 does have a portion of 5.3.1 as is, and a lot of important fixes for qtbase and qtdeclarative
<ScottK> But now that they have their own RTM derivative, why should Ubuntu be stuck because of phone?
<Mirv> we will get to the same problem with 5.4.x - from phone point of view, it'd seem less risky to consider switching to .2/.3 Qt upstream releaes instead of .0, but again other interest holders would probably like .0. Not sure though this time, as Qt 5 is becoming more mature and Debian is going into freeze with 5.3.2
<ScottK> Next cycle Kubuntu will probably need 5.4 for Plasma 5, so it'll be fun.  Think about it.
<ScottK> Anyone else?
<Mirv> ScottK: my understanding is that phone effort will merge back to Ubuntu around the beginning of v-series. at the moment, there is no specific reason why someone else couldn't have worked on 5.3.1 to Ubuntu, and actually mitya57 did a bit of that too
<Mirv> ScottK: yeah, it'll need to be continously pondered. I assumed as much (5.4 wanted)
<Mirv> note that I don't have information on the derivative distro long term plans. but when the focus is there, like now, Ubuntu can have Qt uploads freely regardless of what the phone efforts wants
<xnox> Mirv: have you handled large soname transitions in Ubuntu? how would you do one, if you had to?
<Mirv> xnox: soname transitions are something I need to always get back to documentation with, since I do that rarely. I did some during the Unity / Compiz 12.10/13.04 cycles, bumping the package names according to the soname changes and handling reverse dependencies.
<Mirv> and providing conflicts/breaks as needed for the bumped library
<Mirv> in short, I'd read the documentation and prepare carefully so that there wouldn't be problem in the release pocket migration
<bdmurray> Mirv: in your application you make reference to some check lists that you use. Are those personal check lists or have you shared them somewhere (e.g. a wiki)?
<xnox> Mirv: speaking about proposed migration - Where is ubuntu documentation for it? Can you identify and tell why xiphos package has not migrated to release pocket yet?
<Mirv> bdmurray: personal really. I've a mix of helper scripts and pseudo-scripts (check-lists) for eg. packaging review when Canonical upstream devs want their packages into archive
<Mirv> and I use emacs org-mode too
<Mirv> xnox: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration
<Mirv> xnox: on a quick look at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html the binaries seem missing
<Mirv> ah, right, in the NEW queue https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=
<Mirv> so archive admin would need to do binary approval
<xnox> Mirv: cool, thanks.
<Laney> I'm good
<ScottK> #vote Mirv for MOTU
<meetingology> Please vote on: Mirv for MOTU
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<ScottK> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ScottK
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<bdrung_work> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung_work
<Laney> Would be good to see you in #ubuntu-motu
<ScottK> Yes
<xnox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from xnox
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<Mirv> done, saved to irssi settings
<ScottK> stgraber: ?
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<ScottK> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Mirv for MOTU
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<ScottK> Mirv: Congratulations.
<ScottK> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<ScottK> Anyone have anything else?
<Mirv> thanks all!
 * xnox didn't complete tasks from last meeting yet
<xnox> will do them today, promise =)
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Anyone else?
<ScottK> That's it then.
<ScottK> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 22 15:34:06 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-22-15.08.moin.txt
<ScottK> Mirv: I'll try and get your upload rights set up soon.  It's been awhile since I did it.
<Laney> ScottK: https://launchpad.net/~motu â Add member â timo-jyrinki
<Mirv> thanks ScottK
<ScottK> Yeah.  Easy enough.  Thanks.
<ScottK> Mirv: You have MOTU rights now.  There's some mails to send and such, but you can upload now.
<Mirv> \o/
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> \o
 * sbeattie waves
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 22 16:36:59 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jjohansen> o/
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> AppArmor kernel pull requests have been accepted for distro, mako, flo, manta and goldfish. The distro kernel is in proposed and finding its way to the archive. There is an unrelated issue with goldfish that must be fixed. After that, the phablet kernels will be pushed to the archive together.
<jdstrand> huge thanks to everyone for that! ^ :)
<tyhicks> \o/
<mdeslaur> \o/
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> last week was dominated by the kernel landing
<jdstrand> this week I have some bug fixes related to policy load on boot that I will fix today. I know more fixes are desired for this week, and we can do another upload
<jdstrand> note, that our in-image rtm bug fixes should be done by thursday, but we aren't limited for general fixes for utopic. if anything is left we want on the phone, we can do an ota update
<jdstrand> (ie, afaik, we are in good shape once I do my upload today for rtm readiness)
<jdstrand> I didn't get to look at lxc/docker.io/libvirt-lxc policy last week, so plan to this week
<jdstrand> I also need to adjust UCT for rtm branches, which I didn't get to last week
<jdstrand> ditto for patch piloting
<jdstrand> and have updates to the click-reviewers-tools I need to do
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I just pushed out nginx and nss updates
<mdeslaur> and I have a dbus update I'm about to push out
<mdeslaur> after that, I have to merge nginx for utopic
<mdeslaur> and I have a couple of embargoed issues to work on
<mdeslaur> I'm also on triage this week
<mdeslaur> and have patch piloting sceduled for tomorrow
<mdeslaur> that's it from me, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor this week.
<sbeattie> I'm working on finishing up some reviews of patches at the moment.
<sbeattie> Then I'll move on to fixing additional bugs to try to fit in this week's upload.
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> it will be a short week for me
<tyhicks> I'm off Thursday and Friday
<tyhicks> I'm getting a couple fixes and tests, which have been hanging out on the list for too long, committed to lp:apparmor
<tyhicks> then I'm going to be sending out a v3 set of patches for some of the unix_socket_*.sh regression tests
<tyhicks> then I'll probably be helping with bug fixes
<tyhicks> I think that's it
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I will be catching up on my kernel security sign-offs, and USNs for the next set of kernel updates.
<jjohansen> I have some upstream apparmor work that is past due and I need to get the patches pushed if they are going to land in 3.18
<jjohansen> Beyond that I will be working on bug fixes for apparmor.
<jjohansen> thats it for me, sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week
<sarnold> so get those universe security updates submitted :D
<sarnold> I'm starting with a MIR audit, finishing up whatever apparmor patches still need review to get those checked in, and if there's time, returning to another stalled MIR audit
<sarnold> and if there's time after that, I want to finish up the 'file' security update; the worst is I can't recall what testing I might have done on it two weeks back, so that'll take the bulk of the time for it.
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> so, this week I hope to get bug 1260016 done. As this is going to require making our C++ API public, I shall also be doing other bits of future proofing the existing API's to reduce the risk of us having to do ABI transitions in the future (which currently don't matter, because there isn't a public C++ API)
<ubottu> bug 1260016 in oxide-qt (Ubuntu) "Add an API to allow defining custom URL scheme delegates" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260016
<chrisccoulson> I've also got lots of reviews to do, so I shall be setting aside a day to go through those
<chrisccoulson> and it looks like I need to take a look at bug 1362543 too
<ubottu> bug 1362543 in The Webapps-core project "Web Application fail to load properly every other time is launched" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1362543
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
 * jdstrand points sarnold at 'Checklists' from adb shell /tmp/tests/image/unprivileged/
<sarnold> jdstrand: ah that's just my usual hubris, "oh these updates will be so easy I'll get this one out the door before I can forget what I've done"  :)
<jdstrand> sarnold: sure, I get that. I just tend to document everything and thought that might be helpful.
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libparallel-forkmanager-perl.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tinymce.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gallery.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pyfribidi.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/phpbb3.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 22 17:21:13 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-22-16.36.moin.txt
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<tyhicks> thanks
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-23
<smoser> o/
<gnuoy> o/
<lutostag> o/
<coreycb> o/
<zul> hi
<arosales> o/
<arosales> Hello
<arosales> looks like I am up today
<arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 23 16:02:35 2014 UTC.  The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<beisner> o/
<arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<arosales> ACTION: rbasak to review mysql-5.6 transition plans with ABI breaks with infinity
<smoser> hey. happy to have mr arosales here. thanks!
<arosales> smoser: hello happy to be here :-)
 * arosales doesn't see rbask atm
<arosales> or infinity
 * arosales will leave that as an action to follow up on.
<arosales> #action rbasak to review mysql-5.6 transition plans with ABI breaks with infinity (carry over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to review mysql-5.6 transition plans with ABI breaks with infinity (carry over)
<arosales> ACTION: all to review blueprint work items before next weeks meeting
<arosales> did folks get some time to review BP work?
<kickinz1> o/
<arosales> jamespage: smoser ?
<smoser> um... no i did not. hopefully others did, and can get those in a more sane state.
<arosales> smoser: should I carry over that action item for next week?
<smoser> sure.
<arosales> #action: all to review blueprint work items before next weeks meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: : all to review blueprint work items before next weeks meeting
<arosales> #topic Utopic Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Utopic Development
<arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<arosales> #info  Final Beta Freeze (Mon), Warning /!\ Final Beta coming up
<arosales> Folks got their bits in ? or FFE filed?
<arosales> sorry I guess FFE should be complete by now, not filed
<arosales> I take it by the no comments here that everyone has all the bits they need in :-)
<arosales> #subtopic Release Bugs
<arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-u-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<zul> i have at least a couple of FFE needed
<arosales> 4 critical/high bugs
<arosales> #link http://launchpad.net/bugs/1350810
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1350810 in byobu (Ubuntu Utopic) "Shift-F2 no longer working in Byobu in Ubuntu 14.10 (utopic) with tmux 1.9" [Critical,Triaged]
<arosales> looks like this bug is with kirkland
<rharper> \p
<arosales> #link http://launchpad.net/bugs/1350810
 * arosales doesn't see utlemming around
<arosales> smoser:  ^
<arosales> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/haproxy/+bug/1038139
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1038139 in haproxy (Ubuntu Utopic) "Missing running check on init script" [High,Confirmed]
<arosales> needs an owner, any volunteers?
<arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openstack-trove/+bug/1347567
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1347567 in openstack-trove (Ubuntu Utopic) "trove unit tests disabled" [High,Fix committed]
<arosales> fix committed
<smoser> well, the byobu one appears fixed. maybe.
<smoser> confusing as to if byobu is fixed there or not.i'll ping kirkland
<arosales> coreycb: may need to follow up on the openstack-trove and ensure that is alinged for fix released status
<coreycb> arosales, ok
<arosales> smoser: ack and thanks, your thoughts on the cloud-init bug with utlemming?
<smoser> where is cloud-init bug ?
<arosales> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1336855
<arosales> sorry
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1336855 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Utopic) "[SRU] non-interactive grub updates broken for /dev/xvda devices on Cloud-Images/Cloud-init" [Critical,In progress]
<smoser> its in progress.
<smoser> uploaded to precise.
<arosales> ok, thanks
<smoser> utopic i will upload today.
<jamespage> o/
<arosales> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openstack-trove/+bug/1347567
<smoser> trusty is blocked on another SRU that is in -proposed. but utlemming has fix.
<jamespage> sorry late
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1347567 in openstack-trove (Ubuntu Utopic) "trove unit tests disabled" [High,Fix committed]
<arosales> for meeting notes
<arosales> smoser: ok, as long as not attention is required
<arosales> still need a volunteer for the haproxy
<jamespage> that haproxy issue has a patch and everything
<jamespage> its breaks monitoring of haproxy from pacemaker right now
<jamespage> so fixing that and SRU'ing will help our HA story alot
<arosales> jsut needs an Assignee
<arosales> :-)
<jamespage> arosales, leave it with me - I'll find one
<arosales> thanks jamespage
<serue> for pete's sake i'll take it
<jamespage> zul, pls can we get a trove upload into utopic to fix up that bug above
<arosales> lol serue
<zul> jamespage: yes
<arosales> #subtopic Blueprints
<jamespage> zul, (plus we probably need a FFe bug so we can annoy the release team officially)
<arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/group/topic-u-server.html
<arosales> currently in red status 48% of 191
<arosales> lets at least hit the essentials
<arosales> and any other BPs folks want to take a look at
<arosales> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-u-lxc
<caribou> arosales: I will update mine (kdump) as it will not make it to Utopic
<arosales> caribou: thanks
<arosales> hallyn around?
 * lutostag needs to update his blueprint too...
 * arosales doesn't seem him
<serue> \o
<arosales> or serue thats you :-)
<arosales> any comments on lxc BP?
<serue> questions on lxc bp?
<arosales> currently in red and marked essential, on track for utopic release?
<serue> sadly i don't believe the apparmor stuff wil lhappen this cycle
<serue> unless jjohansen has updated info
<arosales> ok, may be to a point where BP updates need "postponed" if that is not going to happen
<serue> overall i think the bp is in pretty good shape.  (it's a little overextended, as it includes c/r)
<gnuoy> apologies I need to run
<arosales> understood, thanks for the update.  Suggest to sync on aparmor and postpone if it is realisticaly not going to happen
<serue> heh, tycho didn't mark some thingsk done :)
<arosales> #linkd https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-u-openstack-charms
<serue> selling himself short
<arosales> serue: so should be in a better state than what it shows
<arosales> jamespage: looks like you are the owner here
<arosales> on track for release?
<jamespage> arosales, yeah
<arosales> cool, thanks
<arosales> jamespage: and BP has current status?
<jamespage> I have a few bits stacked up in testing which will mark alot of that DONE
<arosales> cool
<arosales> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-u-openstack-juno
<jamespage> it is
<arosales> zul: on track for release and BP up to date ?
<arosales> jamespage thanks
<zul> arges:  yes
<zul> ill update it this week
<arosales> zul ok thanks (/me assumes that is for me)
 * arges is used to it
<arosales> those are the 3 essential BPs
<arosales> any others folks want to cover?
<arosales> a lot of red there so per the action please update BPs as final beta is around the corner
<arosales> doesn't see any other requests to review BPs . . .
<arosales> next topic
<arosales> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> Nothing outstanding aside from the fact that I now have PPU rights for sosreport & makedumpfile
<caribou> sosreport being seeded on the server image
<arosales> congrats on PPU :-)
<arosales> seems like that would be handy
<arosales> thanks for the update caribou
<jdstrand> no, apparmor lxc stuff will not land this cycle
<arosales> jdstrand: thanks for the info
<serue> jdstrand: :(  thx
<arosales> serue ^ could you update the BP accordingly please
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<serue> arosales: pessimistically i already had
<arosales> serue: thanks and it good for folks to see in case they had any objections or new info.
<jdstrand> jjohansen got quite a bit done, but we actually didn't commit to 14.10-- we said (when planning this cycle) we'd try for 14.10 but want to deliever for 15.04
<serue> jdstrand: not judging :)
<jdstrand> we need to review the feasibility of that now-- but considerable progress has been made
<arosales> psivaa: any updats for the QA team?
<arosales> jdstrand: thanks for the updates here :-)
<jdstrand> np
<arosales> perhas psivaa isn't around, any other folks from QA have any topics?
<arosales> 3 . .  . 2 . . . 1
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Hi. Not much here. jamespage, has that jdb2 stuck thing remained not re-appearing?
<jamespage> smb, can't reproduce now
<jamespage> I'll comment on the bug
<smb> maybe fixed by some stable.... ok thanks
<arosales> thanks smb
<arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<arosales> only one I am aware of is the upcomong ODS paris
<arosales> #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/openstack-paris-summit-2014/
<arosales> still some ways off
<arosales> any others?
<arosales> well have some folks for the Juju team @ http://strataconf.com/stratany2013 if folks are interested in talking big data Mid Oct
<arosales> http://strataconf.com/stratany2013
<arosales> #link http://strataconf.com/stratany2013
<arosales> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<arosales> any other items folks would like to bring up?
<arosales> 3 . . . 2 . .  .1
<arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<arosales> Tuesday 2014-09-30 at 1600 UTC
<arosales> beisner: looks like you are up next
<beisner> o/  thanks arosales
<caribou> arosales: thanks
<arosales> cool thanks beisner
<kickinz1> thanls
<arosales> thanks folks!
<arosales> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 23 16:30:53 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-23-16.02.moin.txt
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 23 17:00:52 2014 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Utopic
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<chiluk> o/
<henrix> o/
<cking> o/
<rtg> o/
<sforshee> o/
<kamal> o/
<bjf> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<ppisati> o/
<smb> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<arges> o/
<jsalisbury> The Utopic kernel has been rebased to the v3.16.3 upstream stable kernel
<jsalisbury> and uploaded to the archive, ie. 3.16.0-17.23.  Please test and let us
<jsalisbury> know your results.
<jsalisbury> Also, we're approximately 2 weeks away from Utopic Kernel Freeze on
<jsalisbury> Thurs Oct 9.  Any patches submitted after kernel freeze are subject to
<jsalisbury> our Ubuntu kernel SRU policy.
<jsalisbury> -----
<jsalisbury> Important upcoming dates:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<jsalisbury> Thurs Sep 25 - Utopic Final Beta (~2 days away)
<jsalisbury> Thurs Oct  9 - Utopic Kernel Freeze (~2 weeks away)
<jsalisbury> Thurs Oct 16 - Utopic Final Freeze (~3 weeks away)
<jsalisbury> Thurs Oct 23 - Utopic 14.10 Release (~4 weeks away)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Sept. 23):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Kernel prep
<bjf>   * Precise - Kernel prep
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Kernel prep
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 19-Sep through 11-Oct
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          19-Sep   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 21-Sep - 27-Sep   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 28-Sep - 04-Oct   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 05-Oct - 11-Oct   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 23 17:05:13 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-23-17.00.moin.txt
<cking> thanks jsalisbury
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<arges> jsalisbury: you rock
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-25
 * slangasek waves
 * infinity grunts.
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 25 15:01:12 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
<slangasek> robru infinity mvo cjwatson stgraber doko bdmurray bhuey barry sil2100 slangasek jodh caribou
<slangasek> robru: you're first!
<slangasek> robru: too slow!
<slangasek> infinity:
<infinity> Typing...
<robru> ah sorry, not ready anyway
<slangasek> :)
<infinity> - Helped with some evil partner package reviews
<infinity> - Meetings (several!) with people about $customer doing silly things with firmware
<infinity> - Working on updating PPC packages
<infinity> - Working on Utopic Beta 2 release
<infinity> [...]
<infinity> POssibly also stuff, and/or things.
<slangasek> infinity: '(done)' ?
 * mvo was wondering the same
<infinity> slangasek: Oh, sure.
<mvo> apt:
<mvo> - Debug regression (Bug#762160)
<mvo> - Release  cve-2014-6273 (http.cc buffer overflow)
<mvo> - Work on droping privs for the apt download methods
<mvo> - Work on feature/acq-trans for more robustness in acquire
<mvo> click:
<infinity> slangasek: That was the [...]
<mvo> - Debug pycurl/gnutls issue with search.apps.ubuntu.com and send RT
<ubottu> ** RESERVED ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2014-6273)
<mvo>   ticket, blocks using pycurl for searches
<mvo> - lp:~mvo/click/click-check-libs (find non sdk libs and warn about them)
<mvo> - lp:~mvo/click/lp1245826-multiple-hookfiles (support multiple files
<mvo>   for a given hook)
<mvo> - lp:~mvo/click/acquire (more work on acquire support)
<mvo> - lp:~mvo/click/repository (ported to licurl, stuck with gnutls issue)
<mvo> - lp:~mvo/click/sso (ported to libcurl, stuck with gnutls issue)
<slangasek> infinity: heh :)
<mvo> - upload click-bin-path hook (to add stuff to PATH) to utopic
<mvo> python-apt:
<mvo> - Review/merge Colins ubuntu-rtm fix (thanks!)
<mvo> software-properties:
<mvo> - Review/merge Colins patch, upload new version
<mvo> system-image:
<mvo> - Discussion about leaner download backend
<mvo> - lp:~mvo/ubuntu-system-image/pycurl
<mvo> (done)
<cjwatson> GRUB update in unstable, adding x32 and ppc64el support (ppc64el support replaced our previous cross-compiler hack).
<cjwatson> man-db release to add high-precision timestamp support, speed up mandb / man -K, and stop using debconf in the trigger.  Trawled through Ubuntu bugs about the last part, clearing out >140, and prepared SRUs (bug 1372673).
<ubottu> bug 1372673 in man-db (Ubuntu Trusty) "excessive debconf use when triggered" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1372673
<cjwatson> Fixed livecd-rootfs to tolerate dpkg-dev no longer being on the image.
<cjwatson> netcfg SRU for bug 1350302.
<ubottu> bug 1350302 in MAAS "Deploying node with di on armhf/keystone can't find BOOTIF" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1350302
<cjwatson> Fixed add-apt-repository on ubuntu-rtm.
<sil2100> Eeek!
<cjwatson> Fixed UbuntuKylin image builds to contain the proper Ubiquity slideshow (bug 1372731).
<ubottu> bug 1372731 in Ubuntu Kylin "the slideshow for ubuntu kylin utopic beta-2 rc is ubuntu's slideshow" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1372731
<cjwatson> Various ad-hoc copies to reduce the number of uninstallables reported by proposed-migration for ubuntu-rtm/14.09.
<cjwatson> Tracked down a click autopkgtest regression (fortunately never hit -proposed).
<cjwatson> Devirtualised/otherwise-configured 10 new silos in each of ubuntu and ubuntu-rtm for the CI Train folks.
<cjwatson> Proposed branch for bug 1364327.  Took ages because I first had to get my local autopkgtest/qemu environment sorted out, which involved upgrading to utopic ...
<ubottu> bug 1364327 in click (Ubuntu) "Title: Custom prefix/postfix to the generated click chroots" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1364327
<cjwatson> Working on an OpenSSL backport stack for ppc64el.  In patch hell; send ice cream.
<cjwatson> ..
<stgraber>  - A lot more internal work and meetings..
<stgraber>  - Figured out all the details for upcoming trips (vacation, LinuxCon,
<stgraber>    Plumbers, Client sprint, Server sprint).
<stgraber>  - Released LXC 1.0.6 with 85 bugfixes by 24 individual contributors.
<stgraber>  - Went through the LXC patch backlog, reviewed and committed everything.
<stgraber>  - Worked on fixing the LXC init script situation in preparation for 1.1~alpha2
<stgraber>    (to be released tomorrow ideally).
<stgraber>  - Implemented a fix for uid/gid consistency on system images (touch only at
<stgraber>    the moment).
<stgraber> (DONE)
 * sil2100 is here if anything
<sil2100> Did I miss my turn?
<cjwatson> sil2100: nope, you're after barry
<infinity> cjwatson: Oh, nice, so we're going to drop the cross-hack in Ubuntu too, I assume?
<sil2100> Thanks
<bdmurray> updated daisy (r529) handle AssertionError raised by apport on invalid keys in a report fixes OOPS-ce96293a10a1987c516e4ed968fa715e
<bdmurray> submitted RT to get retracer log files from staging retracers
<bdmurray> submitted RT 75272 regarding nodetool access
<bdmurray> had daisy retracers really updated to r528
<bdmurray> pushed merge proposal with daisy-retracer charm change to create version_info.py
<bdmurray> pushed daisy r531 which logs the version of daisy to the retracer log files
<cjwatson> infinity: already have.  but it doesn't quite work apparently, needs -mno-vsx -mno-altivec or asm hacks, pfsmorigo is on it
<bdmurray> updated and tested daisy charm change to generate version_info.py
<bdmurray> worked with thedac to remove coredumps from swift as there are more items in swift than the retracing queue
<bdmurray> research into if duplicate OOPSes are an issue in the Error Tracker and how to fix it
<bdmurray> created a graph of .new missing versus foreign origin packages
<bdmurray> submitted apport bug 1372612 regarding Ubuntu RTM and origin issue
<bdmurray> reported and testing of apport bug 1373154 regarding ExecutableTimestamp and MarkForUpload being True
<ubottu> bug 1362496 in base-files (Ubuntu-rtm 14.09) "duplicate for #1372612 LSB release and /etc/os-release still say "Utopic", needs to be RTM" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1362496
<ubottu> bug 1373154 in apport (Ubuntu) "reporting of crashes for programs that don't match the file on disk is happening" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1373154
<bdmurray> SRU verification of bug LP: #1309447
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1309447 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Trusty) "Unicode decode error during upgrade to 14.04 if sources.list contains non-ascii characters and locale is non-US" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1309447
<bdmurray> â done
<cjwatson> infinity: (so, cough, it's possible the final beta may not be bootable on ppc64el ...)
<infinity> cjwatson: Oh.  Fun.
<infinity> cjwatson: Good thing I hadn't tested yet.
<slangasek> bhuey: hi, your turn
<bhuey> ok
<bhuey> -read both ubuntu-policy.pdf and packaging tutorial documents
<bhuey> -got X11 working in all containers for TCK testing
<bhuey> -successfully ran TCK inside containers for precise/trusty/utopic
<bhuey> -general clean up of container configurations TCK instances
<bhuey> -begin general creation of container creation scripts so that the entire test environment csn be replicated
<bhuey> -began looking at bugs that needs to be fixed by Oct 20th
<bhuey> (done)
<barry> debuntu: LP: #1371291, debian bug #762142, syncpackage python-concurrent.futures (to fix ftbfs), LP: #1367907, LP: #1290847 (both for python34 sru, awaiting doko's feedback).  reviewed py3 swiftclient packaging and uploaded websocket-client 0.18.0 for internal users.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1371291 in python-eventlet (Ubuntu) "FTBFS caused by PEP 466" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1371291
<ubottu> Debian bug 762142 in python-concurrent.futures "python-concurrent.futures: FTBFS on i386" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/762142
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1367907 in python3.4 (Ubuntu) "Segfault in gc with cyclic trash" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1367907
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1290847 in python3.4 (Ubuntu) "pyvenv fails due to mising ensurepip module" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290847
<barry> phone: system-image 2.4-0ubuntu1 slogging through ci-train for utopic and rtm.  internal discussions.  testing/review/excitement over mvo's pycurl branch.  LP: #1369717.  LP: #1370586.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1369717 in Ubuntu system image "Remove system-image-cli --dbus" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1369717
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1370586 in Ubuntu system image "Add synchronous method to determine if there are known updates" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1370586
<barry> other: git'n it
<barry> -- done --
<sil2100> o/
<slangasek> so now that bhuey has read policy, the rest of our meeting today can be to quiz him on it ;)
<sil2100> - Filling in the standing FFe for utopic Ubuntu Touch packages (LP: #1371635)
<sil2100> - Refactoring some of the commit-log syncing scripts
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1371635 in Ubuntu "[FFe] standing freeze exception in utopic for Ubuntu Touch-specific packages" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1371635
<sil2100> - Landing team work, preparing landing e-mails
<bhuey> slangasek: shit
<sil2100> - CI Train maintenance and feature:
<sil2100>   * Testing binary copy sync functionality
<sil2100>   * Improve error verbosity in some cases for sync rebuilds
<sil2100>   * Cleaning up left-over jenkins jobs
<sil2100>   * Refactoring parts of the build job to enable better testing
<sil2100>   * Add basic unit tests for the sync functionality
<sil2100>   * Make the ~rtm addition to the version number optional
<sil2100>   * Fixing a new small bug that caused the spreadsheet to malfunction
<sil2100> - Reviewing and testing bugfixing merge for appmenu-qt5
<sil2100> - Fixing/unbricking testing device
<sil2100> - Writing announcement e-mails
<sil2100> - Making sure the documentation of RTM landings is up-to-date
<sil2100> - Debugging issues with commit-log generation scripts
<sil2100> - Discussions regarding getting rid of the spreadsheet (finally!)
<sil2100> (done)
<robru> ok, i'm ready now, can i go?
<slangasek> robru: sure
<robru> Train:
<robru> - Adapted 'citrain' (silo installation script) to work on RTM
<robru> - Updated citrain spreadsheet, jenkins backend, and dashboard to recognize the 10 new silos
<robru> - Began test-drive reimplementation of cupstream2distro/silomanager.py, with the intention to fix the utter disgusting lack of encapsulation, such that other bits of citrain no longer need to have knowledge of the custom json format used to maintain each silo's state (this will make it easier/possible to back citrain onto the airline ticket system when the
<robru> time comes)
<robru> - Fixed the deploy job to correctly assign pre-prod silos, making it possible to test things outside of production
<robru> - Stopped the prepare job from being able to delete packages from the PPA, which it was often doing erroneously and deleting packages that had been through hours of scarce QA approval
<robru> - Implemented a generic signal / unhandled exception handler, which is capable of a) logging and b) saving the signal/exception message to the silo status, such that the dashboard can now report when a job exits uncleanly, so we no longer have the situation where the dashboard reports 'Building...' even if something has actually gone horribly wrong
<robru> - Cleaned up the use of subprocess module, so that the testsuite no longer spews random crap on STDOUT, making it a lot easier to see a clean, successful test run
<robru> NFSS:
<robru> - Added veebers' new js module to lp:ubuntu-assets and got it approved by oatman
<robru> (done)
<slangasek> sil2100: FFe> did everything work out wrt touch packages in the auto-accept list?
<infinity> bhuey: A binary package leaves my dput travelling three versions per epoch, when is it appropriate to use Conflicts versus Breaks, and does the answer change when drunk?
<sil2100> slangasek: I think it did, since we didn't see any further problems
<barry> infinity: binNMU
<cjwatson> infinity: consider a spherical manual page
<infinity> cjwatson: I actually ell oh elled.
<infinity> cjwatson: And, for some reason, I read that in Bill Bailey's voice.
<slangasek>  * business meeting up in Seattle yesterday, the jet lag is horrible
<slangasek>  * review of a number of impending partner packages
<slangasek>  * working to move a number click apps out of the rootfs into a default "custom" tarball (bug #1367332)
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1367332 could not be found
<slangasek>  * progress on a console-setup merge with Colin's help; the package may be uploadable this year
<slangasek>  * created new silos at LT's request
<slangasek>  * LT/CI meetings to discuss next steps on CI Airline (e.g., ditching the spreadsheet)
<slangasek> (done)
<bhuey> infinity: yes, only when also taking opiates with alcohol
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - investigating bug 1371651.
<ubottu> bug 1371651 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Daily does not boot into graphical interface after installation" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1371651
<jodh>   - A respectful prod to all upstart devs to take a look at the
<jodh>   following if they get a chance :-):
<jodh>   https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1360208/+merge/234869
<jodh> * system-image
<jodh>   - Good progress - root is now r/o with a writeable overlay.
<slangasek> if a ~ falls in the middle of your version, does it make a sound
<jodh>   - More tweaks to lp:~ubuntu-foundations-team/+junk/create-ubuntu-core-image.
<jodh>   - Split lp:~ubuntu-foundations-team/+junk/system-image-rootfs into 2:
<jodh>     - lp:~ubuntu-foundations-team/+junk/ubuntu-core-config [1]
<jodh>     - lp:~ubuntu-foundations-team/+junk/initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core [2]
<jodh>   - Currently testing recent changes to [2].
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - procenv is now running for lucid as well as all newer supported releases:
<jodh>     https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/+recipe/procenv-daily-ubuntu-lucid
<jodh> â­
<slangasek> jodh: bug #1371651> do we know what /changed/ to cause this problem?
<ubottu> bug 1371651 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Daily does not boot into graphical interface after installation" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1371651
<slangasek> (it was the kernel, wasn't it!)
<jodh> slangasek: no - I've asked jibel to check packages differences, but I don't think it's upstart.
<slangasek> I agree
<infinity> slangasek: No one seems entirely sure who to blame just yet, though the kernel seems a likely candidate.
<slangasek> plymouth has been uploaded recently (twice in the past 8 days), but those changes should also not have had an effect
<infinity> (Or, the whole process is just amazingly fragile, and the fault lies in all the players together, plus it was Wednesday)
<jodh> well as I noted on the bug, we do see plymouth crashing in the logs but that might be due to fb issues which are also causing the failure of upstart to emit the plymouth-ready event.
<slangasek> right, in which case --> kernel
<jodh> slangasek: right, jibel is trying to track down apw I believe.
<slangasek> has anyone asked apw about it?
<slangasek> ok :)
<infinity> The part where "it works with systemd" (while also obviously not being directly an upstart bug) kinda points to the fragility argument.
<jibel> slangasek, apw is working on it
<jodh> infinity: but has anyone tried uselessd yet? :)
<slangasek> infinity: on systemd we don't have any flicker-free boot integration
<apw> the state the machine ends up in when this is reproduced seems to indicate everything is in order, and running service lightdm start sorts it out (i believe)
<apw> w
<apw> which leans towards a userspace race in my eyes, but i am waiting on some installs
<slangasek> apw: if the plymouth-ready signal isn't being emitted because of a kernel-induced plymouth crash, that's not really a matter of a race
<slangasek> anyway, seems like this is in hand so we can discuss it on better channels post-meeting
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else today?
<slangasek> I've been failing to tag people to do the weekly talk-about-what-you're-working-on thing
<slangasek> does somebody want to volunteer to do one next week?
<jodh> apw: fwics, if you remove "quiet splash", the problem is not recreatable but would value other trying it (I've asked a few times on the bug :-)
<bdmurray> cjwatson: regarding bug 1372673, it looks like you found most of the duplicates. Did you check other packages though?
<ubottu> bug 1372673 in man-db (Ubuntu Trusty) "excessive debconf use when triggered" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1372673
<cjwatson> bdmurray: nope, I don't have a mechanical search for it and some of the problems are subtly different
<cjwatson> so I had only finite time
<cjwatson> bdmurray: I'm certain I found all the duplicates on man-db - the others that look similar are actually cropping up in postinst configure instead which is different
<slangasek> no volunteers? :)
<cjwatson> you have to hunt for debconf failures immediately following "Processing triggers for man-db" or translations thereof
<slangasek> you don't have to prepare anything... (in fact it's better if you don't!...) you just have to talk about what you're working on
<robru> slangasek: i volunteer for the week of the washington sprint so this meeting won't be so painfully early for me ;-)
<bdmurray> cjwatson: okay, I may have a look around and then check with you
<cjwatson> ok sure
<slangasek> robru: invest in coffee
<robru> slangasek: just say NO to drugs ;-)
<cjwatson> our coffee machine wasn't working this morning /o\
<slangasek> robru: you can balance it out with bhuey's opiate-laced alcohol
 * ogra_ listens up 
<bdmurray> I've moved away from machines to an aeropress now.
<cjwatson> slangasek: guess I can if everyone else is running away; it's been a while for me
<cjwatson> (next week)
<slangasek> cjwatson: thanks :)
<slangasek> #action cjwatson to do a what-I'm-working-on presentation next week
<meetingology> ACTION: cjwatson to do a what-I'm-working-on presentation next week
<slangasek> bdmurray: this is only impressive if you also have a button to deliver the prepared cup of coffee to your desk via pneumatic tube
<cjwatson> slangasek: have you seen Wallace and Gromit or is that too much of a British thing?
<slangasek> cjwatson: yes, quite familiar with it :)
<slangasek> (the last movie even had a theatrical release in the US!)
<slangasek> er, I think
<slangasek> oh right, Chicken Run was technically not W&G, just Aardman
<bdmurray> I agree with your thought
<slangasek> anyway, speaking of which
 * slangasek slinks away from the desk to get more coffee
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 25 15:32:56 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-25-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all :)
<barry> \o/
<mvo> thanks
<stgraber> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-09-21
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<jjohansen> o/
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 21 16:30:50 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hey
<jdstrand> so this week I'm finishing up some new snappy policy groups, working on documentation and helping tyhicks with anything for next week
<jdstrand> I'm also working on helping the golang/juju/lxd mirs along
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on two embargoed issues
<mdeslaur> and if I have time, I'll pick something off the CVE list
<mdeslaur> that's it from me, sbeattie&
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> I'm also working on some gcc-pie rebuilds, and fixing up an oversight in the patch I have (not enabling bind-now as well)
<sbeattie> I have some apparmor patches to review
<sbeattie> And I have a few things to address in QRT that kernel team testing has highlighted.
<sbeattie> Also, I guess I have been volunteered to do an update later this week.
<sbeattie> That's probably it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up.
<tyhicks> I'm on bug triage this week
<tyhicks> I'll mainly be preparing for the snappy sprint (creating presentations and finishing up spec docs)
<tyhicks> I'll also be helping out with an embargoed issue as time allows
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I am working on apparmor stacking and bugs this week, specifically bug 1496430 and 1448912
<ubottu> bug 1496430 in AppArmor "Docker-1.8.2 can't create container, due to apparmor denying 'disconnected path'" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496430
<ubottu> bug 1448912 in AppArmor "BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference (aa_label_merge)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1448912
<jjohansen> oh and I suppose I need to respond to the aa-sha1sum email
<jjohansen> maybe commit a set of Makefile patches
<jjohansen> I don't really expect to get to anything else, but if I finishes those I will go back to other aspects of stacking
<jjohansen> thats it for me sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm on cve triage this week
<sarnold> I'm hoping to finish the fwupdpate MIR today, ought to be doable if mitre wasn't too busy over the weekend, then start the lxd MIR
<sarnold> lxd will likely take the remainder of the week
<sarnold> if not into next week a bit, again depending upon how busy the thousand gnomes over at mitre are this week
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> This week I've got a Firefox update to do (and maybe Thunderbird as well)
<chrisccoulson> I've just done Flash
<chrisccoulson> In addition to that, I'm going to be moving us to using Mozilla's new symbol upload API for Firefox build symbols
<chrisccoulson> I plan to finish off https://code.launchpad.net/~zaspire/oxide/web-notifications_v2/+merge/262466
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working through Oxide bugs as usual
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<tyhicks> thanks!
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gdm.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libpoe-component-pubsub-perl.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pxz.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/aria2.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/vxl.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 21 16:53:28 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-21-16.30.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-09-22
<hikiko> hello
 * beisner queues up to chair in a few min...
<kickinz1> o/
<coreycb> o/
<smb> o/
<matsubara> o/
<gnuoy> o/
<beisner> o/
<hallyn> \o
<beisner> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 22 16:00:47 2015 UTC.  The chair is beisner. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<beisner> greetings, everyone
<smoser> o/
<beisner> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<beisner> * rharper collect team thoughts on whether we should have something like numad and other NUMA related placement stuff
<beisner> update, discussion re: the 1 action item from last wk? ^
<arges>  numad | 0.5+20150602-2 | wily/universe | source, amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, powerpc, ppc64el
<arges>  numatop | 1.0.3-0ubuntu1 | wily/universe | source, amd64, i386
<arges> what other numa packages are needed?
 * hallyn has a feeling rharper is not around
<beisner> yeah i'm not up to speed on that one.  rharper smoser ?
<beisner> 321..  we can circle back when rharper arrives
<beisner> #topic Wily Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Wily Development
<beisner> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<smoser> yeah, no status thre. we'llw ait more on rharper next trime
<smoser> but he is not here.
<beisner> we are in final beta freeze
<beisner> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<beisner> do we need assignees for the triaged + confirmed bugs there?
<smoser> looking
<beisner> i'd also like to query for status/eta on bug 1488453
<ubottu> bug 1488453 in openhpi (Ubuntu) "Package postinst always fail on first install when using systemd" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1488453
<smoser> woudl be good to look at the cve one, but it is old.
<smoser> that one is assigned to me. you are bothered by it, beisner  ?
<beisner> my bug 1479661 is a dup of that -- net effect is that hacluster isn't deployable to vivid or wily.
<ubottu> bug 1488453 in openhpi (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1479661 Package postinst always fail on first install when using systemd" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1488453
<smoser> beisner, i'll take a look
<smoser> feel free to bother me
<beisner> smoser, cool thanks.  bothered  ;-)
<beisner> any other general bug discussion?
<beisner> if not, moving on
<beisner> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> nothing to mention, sir
<beisner> thanks caribou
<beisner> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<matsubara> Hi beisner, nothing to report.
<beisner> hi matsubara - ok cool.  thank you
<beisner> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> I got nothing to report from our side. Are there any questions/requests from your side?
<beisner> smb autobot polls the audience
<caribou> smb: I got one
<smb> yup?
<caribou> smb: the kernel dump currently fails with crashkernel=128M
<caribou> smb: looks like a initramfs size issue
<smb> yeah, I think you were discussing with apw about that.
<caribou> yes, but didn't get anywhere yet. Any chance we can address this before release ?
<arges> caribou: is there a bug filed? : )
<caribou> arges: yes looking for it atm
<arges> i remember we changed the size at some point, or were thikning about it
<caribou> bug #1496317
<ubottu> bug 1496317 in kexec-tools (Ubuntu) "kexec fails with OOM killer with the current crashkernel=128 value" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496317
<caribou> changing MODULES=dep in initramfs.conf works around the issue
<caribou> brings the size of the initramfs from 29M to 12M
<apw> smb, i think we should consider making an =dep initrd as well when kdump is installed
<smb> Beside of increasing the reserverd mem again, the change for only building required modules into initramfs might be a bit late... Wasn't the question about whether this could be made as a part of kdump's postinst
<arges> could that break things for people that need modules to boot and use kdump?
<arges> need the modules that may be dropped by change from most to dep
<smb> arges, only if the swap hw
<apw> in theory not as they should have everything that they have loaded
<caribou> we can fix that after release, it's not _that_ critical
<apw> given all we do in there is mount / and copy the dump and then reboot
<apw> but ... how to trigger the maintenance of _both_ sizes not so easy
<caribou> apw: better to fix that after release then?
<arges> yea so a cold boot would also need most ,but after kexec'ing we could have something more minimal.  What about bumping 128M?
<apw> caribou, its a change i dont know the magnitude of for sure
<caribou> apw: then let's hold on to it, since there is a known workaround
<caribou> apw: maybe document it in the release notes
<arges> i think that's reasonable
<caribou> apw: better to find a secure option for LTS
<smb> caribou, I guess one of those but nothing to be decided in the scope of the meeting
<caribou> arges: ok good for me
<beisner> interesting.  ok so, an action to coordinate on the bug & rls note bits.
<smb> Best way is to bother us one of there days again
<beisner> #action caribou arges smb apw to coordinate on bug 1496317 (crashkernel 128M), and/or ensure rls notes reflect workaround.
<meetingology> ACTION: caribou arges smb apw to coordinate on bug 1496317 (crashkernel 128M), and/or ensure rls notes reflect workaround.
<caribou> beisner: you can action me on this one
<ubottu> bug 1496317 in kexec-tools (Ubuntu) "kexec fails with OOM killer with the current crashkernel=128 value" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496317
<beisner> and a belated action from prev topic...
<beisner> #action smoser and beisner to coordinate on bug 1488453 (hacluster failing V/W)
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser and beisner to coordinate on bug 1488453 (hacluster failing V/W)
<ubottu> bug 1488453 in openhpi (Ubuntu) "Package postinst always fail on first install when using systemd" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1488453
<apw> caribou, i suspect a kdump specific hook for the kernel postinst which uses like /boot/kdump/ to maek skiny ones
<caribou> apw: will look into that
<apw> caribou, sounds good
<arges> need crashkernel=auto
<beisner> thanks.  anything else for the kernel team?
<beisner> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<beisner> proposals, anyone?
<beisner> which really leads to:
<beisner> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<beisner> events, anyone?
<beisner> openstack developer summit tokyo is in ~1mo.   several people will be there representing various interests.
<beisner> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<beisner> shall we mention the python 2 wily thing?
<beisner> i imagine that will be impactful to many juju charms, and other non-juju use cases.
<beisner> openstack charms have workarounds in-flight in the dev/next branches.
<beisner> smoser, other thoughts and/or summary of the status and happenings on that?
<smoser> sure.
<smoser> python2 is gone from default ubuntu server installs
<smoser> that includes maas installs, server ISO installs and cloud images
<smoser> you can very easily 'apt-get install python2' or any application that correctly depends on python2
<beisner> ^ >= Wily, right?
<smoser> correct.
<beisner> thanks smoser
<smoser> you'll see issues if you assumed /usr/bin/python
<smoser> and further issues if you assumed 'import <something>' would work with that /usr/bin/python
<smoser> this is a knonwn problem at this point with many charms and maas
<smoser> (maas uses ephemeral images and assumes it can invoke /usr/bin/python)
<smoser> so...
<smoser> your opeiotns to address such thigns:
<smoser> a.) use python3
<smoser> b.) install python2
<smoser> c.) use some sort of 'python2or3'
<smoser> i started https://gist.github.com/smoser/8904199bb8f00a90dd04
<smoser> which has just about no doc, and woudl only be very useful if it were installed in ubuntu images
<smoser> but the idea woudl be that instead of '#!/usr/bin/python' or '#!/usr/bin/env python'
<smoser> you could:
<smoser>  #!/usr/bin/env py2or3 -myaml
<smoser> and this would select a python2 or 3 that had yaml available
<smoser> not yet implemented is the -I2 or -I3 flags that would then cause install if nothing was found suitable
<smoser> that would allow you do do:
<smoser>  #!/usr/bin/env py2or3 -myaml -I3
<smoser> and if you had executed that as root, you'd not know anything other than your program ran as you expected (just a bit slow with 'apt-get install' in the middle)
<smoser> anyway, thats what i have for that topic.
<beisner> great, thanks smoser
<smoser> thanks for raising that, beisner . i'm sure it will cause fun for people in the next months.
<beisner> alright, so:  assume not.  define and install dependencies accordingly.   and/or follow the gist and consider it as an option.
<beisner> i'm sure we'll be tracking that closely, thx again smoser
<beisner> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<beisner> same time same day same channel,  gaughen will be your host.
<beisner> thank you all, have a great day!
 * gaughen crosses fingers!
<gaughen> thanks beisner!
<beisner> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 22 16:35:56 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-22-16.00.moin.txt
<beisner> yw gaughen
<kickinz1> thanks beisner
<gaughen> 3rd reschedule is the charm right? I should be able to do it next week
<caribou> thanks beisner !
<beisner> +1 wk i should say
<gaughen> beisner, bat time takes that into account
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 22 17:00:10 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<smb> o/
<cking> o/
<bjf> o/
<arges> o/ o/ o/ o/ o/ o/ o/ o/ o/ o/ o/
<henrix> o/
<kamal> o/
<sforshee> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<chiluk> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Our Wily kernel has been rebased to stable v4.2.1 and uploaded to
<ogasawara> wily-proposed, ie 4.2.0-11.13.  We will continue to track 4.2 for
<ogasawara> the remainder of the 15.10 cycle.  As a reminder, we are approaching
<ogasawara> Wily Kernel Freeze on Oct 8, ~2 weeks away.  If there are any patches
<ogasawara> which need to land for 15.10, please get them submitted soon.  Following
<ogasawara> the Kernel Freeze deadline, all patches are subject to our SRU policy.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct  8 - Kernel Freeze (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 15 - Final Freeze (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 22 - 15.10 Release (~4 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/lts-utopic/Vivid (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/lts-utopic/Vivid (bjf)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   *     Precise - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *      Trusty - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *  lts-Utopic - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *      Vivid  - Verification & Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 04-Sep through 26-Sep
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          04-Sep   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 06-Sep - 12-Sep   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 13-Sep - 19-Sep   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 20-Sep - 26-Sep   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 22 17:03:59 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-22-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-09-23
<valorie> o/
<ovidiu-florin> o/
<valorie> hmmm, where is the CC?
<yofel> dholbach: hangour or IRC?
<valorie> oh god, not hangout
<dholbach> hangout - I sent an invite
<valorie> gads
<yofel> hm, I need to relocate then, brb
<ovidiu-florin> dholbach: where?
<dholbach> to your gmail address - if you give me the mail you'd like to use, I'm happy to send another invite
<ovidiu-florin> dholbach: sent
<dholbach> thanks ovidiu-florin
<dholbach> anyone else?
<valorie> me, and I don't see an invite?
<yofel> dholbach: can you give me another invite please? I'm clicking join and nothing happens
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-09-24
<barry> o/
<pitti> *tock* *tock* anyone here?
<tdaitx> o>
<robru> o-
<barry> i think we need to shuf to see who will run the meeting
<pitti> does anyone have the list handy/
 * barry goes to directory
<tdaitx> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx)
<tdaitx> tdaitx barry bdmurray slangasek doko sil2100 infinity pitti cyphermox robru caribou
<barry> tdaitx: i guess that means you win (for running the meeting) :)
<barry> or not.  i can do it
<barry> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 24 15:03:43 2015 UTC.  The chair is barry. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tdaitx> barry, pelase =)
<barry> #topic lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<barry> tdaitx: go for it
<tdaitx> Current/Past
<tdaitx> - squid3 FTBFS; fix warning; revert libecap3-dev dependency to libecap2-dev; workaround netfilter and glibc header mismatch; build with -D_GLIBCXX_USE_CXX11_ABI=0 since libecap2 (0.20) was not transitioned; (LP: #1496223, LP: #1496924); this is on hold since rbasak is working in merging newer squid3 from debian to ubuntu
<tdaitx> - reviewed motu, debian maint guide, and a few blogs
<tdaitx> - worked in TCK on canonistack
<tdaitx> Next steps
<tdaitx> - FTBFS fixes and triaging
<tdaitx> - level up my juju charm skills
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1496223 in linux (Ubuntu) "squid3 FTBFS due to linux-libc-dev and libc6-dev headers mismatch" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496223
<tdaitx> - find a way to share files in canonistack as volumes are not shareable and there seems to be a limit to the amount of snapshots (very low priority)
<tdaitx> Waiting/On hold
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1496924 in squid3 (Ubuntu) "squid3 FTBFS due to bad libecap3 dependency and logical-not-parentheses warning" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496924
<tdaitx> - remove libecap3 (1.0) and transition libecap2 (0.2) in case we keep the current squid3 version instead of merging from debian newest one
<tdaitx> - waiting OCA to submit webrevs for 7093640 backport (set TLS 1.1 as default for JDK 6 and TLS 1.2 as default for JDK 7); not blocking anything for now, just waiting
<tdaitx> (done)
<barry> flufl.i18n 1.1.3-4, flufl.bounce 2.3-4, emacs24 24.5+1-1ubuntu2, debian bug #789670, zope.i18n 4.0.1-2, zope.testing 4.5.0-1, zope.exceptions 4.0.8-1, LP: #1496887
<ubottu> Debian bug 789670 in python-future,python-pies2overrides "python-future,python-pies2overrides: error when trying to install together" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/789670
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1496887 in pyke (Ubuntu) "pyke ftbfs in wily" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496887
<barry> LP: #1495688 & system-image 3.0.2.  working on debugging the intermittent test_pause failure which only happens on the buildds.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1495688 in system-image (Ubuntu) "system-image-cli tool fails on dangling symlink" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1495688
<barry> worked on python venv issues a bit
<barry> looked into cpustream2distro w/robru
<barry> interviews
<barry> --done--
<barry> bdmurray: you're up
<barry> hmm, maybe bdmurray isn't around?
<barry> i know slangasek isn't around
<barry> doko: ?
<tdaitx> doko was at connect
<tdaitx> *is
<barry> ah, right
<barry> thx
<doko> very short, still at Linaro connect. doing some archive work
<barry> doko: thanks
<barry> i know sil2100 is also not around
<barry> apparently infinity isn't either
<pitti> autopkgtest/britney:
<pitti>  - Take test triggers into account when evaluating whether a result applies to a request; this now properly tracks per-kernel results for e. g. DKMS packages or linux-meta
<pitti>  - Rebuild debci web UI on bigger instance, wrangle with stuck juju unit
<pitti>  - in progress: Show currently running tests with life logtail on debci
<pitti>  - lots of maintenance/fixing of workers, we ran into large backlogs this week due to linux and KDE; discussed with Andy how to avoid the linux-meta uninstallability in the future
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - apport: fix two security issues (#1492570), new upstream release
<pitti>  - apport: Filter out watchdog restarts (#1433320)
<pitti>  - patch piloting most of Friday
<pitti>  - some bug fixing in pkgbinarymangler, systemd, langpack-o-matic, dbconfig-common
<pitti>  - prepare sprint demo and talk for classic container on snappy
<pitti> NOTE: I'll be in Budapest at the Snappy sprint next week, so spotty IRC presence
<pitti> ~ END ~
<pitti> FYI, crappy prototype: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running.html
<pitti> cyphermox: ?
<barry> pitti: that looks nice
<cyphermox> oi!
<pitti> barry: wow, you have low standards :)
<cyphermox>  - fwupdate work (getting it signed...)
<cyphermox>  - fixed os-prober bug LP: #1482851
<cyphermox>  - fixing bcmwl detection for XPS13
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1482851 in os-prober (Ubuntu) "Windows 10 is detected as Windows 8" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1482851
<cyphermox>  - sponsored sudo fix.
<cyphermox>  - d-i update for user-setup / kernel ABI
<cyphermox>  - removed biosdevname from d-i base image.
<cyphermox>  - ubiquity update
<caribou> barry uses w3m as a web browser
<barry> pitti: i'm easy to please
<cyphermox>  - grub2 SRU for LP: #1311247 (in trusty queue)
<cyphermox>  - sponsored network-manager-strongswan
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1311247 in grub2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "[Grubenv] error: malformed file, press any key to continue" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1311247
<cyphermox>  - debugging grub-installer issues
<cyphermox>    - installing PReP on a md device.
<cyphermox> (done)
<robru> lp:cupstream2distro
<robru>  - Eliminate last vestiges of local json blobs: jenkins is now fully bileto-powered
<robru>  - Lots of various small improvements, dropped vestigial things, streamlined some trivial methods
<robru>  - Implement a basic ramdisk cache to speed up the slowest function in the train, speeding up all jobs by several minutes
<robru>  - make error reporting a little more robust
<robru>  - implemented a handy atomic_write() function that simplified/unified a few places doing atomic writes.
<robru>  - dramatically overhauled prepare-job to make it work better with bileto
<robru>  - created new abandon job that marks requests as abandoned unconditionally, and frees the silo, if any.
<robru>  - prevent publishing silo that are in an error state, including QA Failed.
<robru>  - prevent publishing silos that have dirty packages
<robru>  - fix a bug in the diff logic that was causing dual silos to diff the local vivid version against the wily archive version
<robru>  - fix up staleness report that was totally bitrotty ever since dashboard went away.
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru>  - resurrect linking migration status to excuses page, a feature which regressed when dashboard went away
<robru>  - fix sync request display
<robru>  - fix a bug in the status colorizer which was causing some error states not to be red.
<robru>  - show silos needing ack on the "publishable" page, makes requests not vanish mid-publish
<robru> (done)
<caribou> Bugfix :
<caribou> - Bug #1494141 - haproxy 1.5 does not terminate SRU to Trusty on Bug #1481737
<ubottu> bug 1494141 in trusty-backports "HAProxy 1.5 init script does not terminate processes" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1494141
<ubottu> bug 1481737 in haproxy (Ubuntu Trusty) "HAProxy init script does not work correctly with nbproc configuration option" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1481737
<caribou> - Bug #1496317 Wily failed kdump crash
<caribou>   Working with kernel team on a kernel hook to generate
<ubottu> bug 1496317 in kexec-tools (Ubuntu) "kexec fails with OOM killer with the current crashkernel=128 value" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496317
<caribou>   smaller initrd for kdump
<caribou> - Investigate VM boot failure for STS support
<caribou> Working on adding autopkgtests to makedumpfile/kdump-tools
<caribou> (done)
<barry> #topic sprint update
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: sprint update
<tdaitx> pitti, nice prototype
<barry> just to say, i haven't heard anything about location or confirmation yet
<pitti> tdaitx: the joy of AMQP fanout queues, learned about that new toy today :)
<caribou> barry I saw it scheduled in Austin, dunno if it is definitive
<tdaitx> the doc says austin, tx
<pitti> barry: ah, so it's not even clear that we'll have it in that week in the first place?
 * pitti urgently needs to buy tickets for the systemd conf (or not, if it's in that week and in the US
<barry> caribou: ah, cool thanks.  i thought it was likely austin given the new office
<pitti> Austin? ok, then definiitvely no double-conf, this is utterly hard to get to
<barry> pitti: the last i heard from slangasek, confirmation is still pending, but if it happens it'll be that week
<pitti> barry: ack, thanks
<barry> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<barry> anybody else have anything fun for this week?
<cyphermox> still harvesting tomatoes.
<pitti> cyphermox: me too! we've had plenty this year with this fantastic summer
<cyphermox> indeed.
<barry> cyphermox: i'm jealous.  i was just telling pitti how weak our tomato harvest was this year
<cyphermox> and cucumbers were going quite well too.
<barry> beautiful fall weather tho, so i'm working out on the porch today
<cyphermox> lucky
<cyphermox> that's all I have in OB anyway :)
<barry> cool, anyone else?
<cyphermox> oh actually
<cyphermox> if someone with SRU powers could review the grub SRU in trusty queue
<barry> so, dates are locked down, but location is still tbd with austin the current target
<cyphermox> fun..
<barry> and with that...
<barry> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 24 15:18:25 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-24-15.03.moin.txt
<barry> thanks everyone
<tdaitx> thanks!
<pitti> thanks everyone
<cyphermox> thanks barry, tdaitx!
<caribou> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-09-26
<rbasak> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<BenC> o/
<cyphermox> do we have quorum? I'll chair instead of sil2100
<cyphermox> looks like we do
<cyphermox> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 26 15:02:08 2016 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cyphermox> sil2100 asked me to chair, since he was going to be on a uncertain connection
<BenC> Has it reall been two weeks since the last meeting? My internal clock is misrepresenting terribly.
 * rbasak is also on an uncertain connection
<cyphermox> BenC: it has
<BenC> And on that note, I must appologize for not updating the agenda.
<cyphermox> no infinity here, but I'll poke him to do his PPU stuff for Gunnar.
<rbasak> That's done actually.
<cyphermox> oh
<rbasak> slangasek took care of it for us.
<cyphermox> good
<cyphermox> what about the PPU acces for Otto?
<rbasak> That I didn't have in my mind when I asked him, sorry.
<cyphermox> ok, I will then
<rbasak> If someone wants to prepare the edit-acl command for slangasek, I'm sure he'd be happy to oblige.
<cyphermox> my tasks were done
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> sil2100's tasks were done (libdumbnet and zerofree for ubuntu-cloud)
<cyphermox> and finally mine (nacc to add to core-dev and annoucing results) are done too -- so looks like we just need to cover Otto's PPU now
<cyphermox> I see no applications on the agenda...
<cyphermox> BenC: was there anything that should be on today's agenda?
<BenC> We pushed âNicholas Skaggs and (Juju Delegated Team) (September 12th)â to this meeting.
<cyphermox> balloons: are you around?
<balloons> o/
<balloons> Happy Monday to you all
<cyphermox> #topic Juju Delegated Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Juju Delegated Team
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> I wasn't expecting to be available today, but I happen to be free and with a connection available right now.
<cyphermox> ok!
<cyphermox> well, we have an email thread describing the request for a Juju PPU team.
<cyphermox> is everyone familiar with that thread or with last meeting's discussion so we can skip right to voting on the team creation? is there anything we need to discuss on that regard? (or was the voting done already?)
<BenC> Iâm good
<bdmurray> I'm not caught up on the thread
<cyphermox> rbasak had concerns with the complexity of the packages, and whether they shouldn't just require core-dev
<cyphermox> the thing is, we should usually consider PPU uploader teams separate from who asked to have that access .. can we sufficiently well define the packageset?
<rbasak> I believe that all the packages currently requested have the property that they are only dependencies of Juju and nothing else.
<rbasak> So "Juju and supporting packages that aren't dependencies for anything other than Juju" or a more concise form of that maybe?
<BenC> Yeah, letâs get the package set out of the way. I think thatâs fairly well defined.
<BenC> And uncontested, for the most part.
<rbasak> If we were to decide that Juju can only be uploaded to by core devs, then there would be no point in having a packageset.
<rbasak> I realise that it's a bit circular though. I don't mind which way round we do it.
<rbasak> As you say, I think everyone agrees what the packageset should be.
<cyphermox> well, I don't think it has to only be core developers. people can show interest in only juju and show that they can handle these special packages correctly without necessarily qualifying or willing to be core-dev
<micahg> cyphermox: that's a point of contention
<BenC> I agree. I think itâs actually more likely that some one would work on juju and not want or need core, than the other way around.
<cyphermox> micahg: could you elaborate?
<BenC> micahg: Is it contended because thereâs an opinion that you need to be at the level of a core-dev to work on it correcly, or because you should be a core dev to do it?
<micahg> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2016-September/000979.html
<BenC> I agree, there needs to be a higher level of expertise for anyone working on juju, but I donât agree that you should need core-dev permissions to do so.
<cyphermox> uploads are uploads, we're not here to check if someone uploading is doing a bugfix or not
<rbasak> What if we ask all DMB members here to express their opinion on my questions A-E in that email? Would that help? Are there any further distinctions or nuances in opinion that this would miss?
<cyphermox> AFAIK we've worked the same way for other packages for which uploads have consequences -- that's why we look at the packageset and who requests access separately
<micahg> I agree on that point, I'm still not sure about whether or not someone should be core-dev for juju, I'm leaning towards it's plumbing for package management, so people should have a decent understand of how things work
<BenC> A) Yes, B) No
<BenC> Given that, I move that we define juju as a package set and to allow PPU access to it on a case-by-case basis.
<cyphermox> seems to be like "bugfix-only uploads for the PPU" is unenforceable, and arguably something that goes beyond the scope of the DMB
<BenC> Yeah, and most of these points can easily bog us down to the point of hindering progress rather than enabling.
<BenC> Which I think is our main goal.
<cyphermox> perhaps we could vote on the packageset, then vote on rbasak's points and bring this up to the next TB meeting?
<cyphermox> BenC: err, what? :)
<BenC> We should be enabling progress and development rather than hindering it :)
<cyphermox> oh, ok :)
<BenC> Order of gramatical operations failure on my part.
<rbasak> I think that given it's within the scope of the DMB to deny an application for PPU, it's also within the scope of the DMB to permit a limited PPU only. Whether or not we choose to do it, or whether or not it's a good idea, is a separate matter.
<cyphermox> #vote for the creation of a juju packageset defined as "Juju and supporting packages that aren't dependencies for anything other than Juju"
<meetingology> Please vote on: for the creation of a juju packageset defined as "Juju and supporting packages that aren't dependencies for anything other than Juju"
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<BenC> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from BenC
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<micahg> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from micahg
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: for the creation of a juju packageset defined as "Juju and supporting packages that aren't dependencies for anything other than Juju"
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<rbasak> I'm not sure we need to send this to the TB, unless we're hung or really unsure or something. We can still decide to our best ability and allow balloons (or anyone else) to take it to the TB if unhappy still though.
<cyphermox> rbasak: that's not what I meant though
<rbasak> No?
<cyphermox> I think we ought to proceed as usual to do the vote for the packageset, vote on the applicants, and then bring up this discussion on ubuntu-devel perhaps?
<cyphermox> and if need be, have a decision made by the TB
<cyphermox> even if juju is complicated, I don't think it qualifies as stuff that only core-devs should ever upload
<cyphermox> I think very few such packages exist
<cyphermox> even boot stuff typically has bad consequences if you do stuff wrong, but we can have very knowledgeable uploaders ready to do such uploads
<cyphermox> #topic Nicholas Skaggs for juju packageset upload rights
<rbasak> I have no objection to bring it up on ubuntu-devel if you would like to do that.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Nicholas Skaggs for juju packageset upload rights
<cyphermox> balloons: could you tell us more about what changed since last meeting?
 * cyphermox kicks Launchpad, would be nice to see upload history right about now
<balloons> cyphermox, you can at least still see http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=*&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=*Skaggs*&sponsoree_search=name
<balloons> but yea :-(
<balloons> Anyways, I sent along an email about juju packaging history as I knew it, and my invovlement with it
<micahg> yes, but boot loaders are very focused, yes, results can be disastrous, but there's specific knowledge involved, packaging plumbing would seemingly require knowledge of how other packages interact and can potentially interact with each other, which implies archive-wide understanding
<balloons> There's also an on-going debate about 32-bit uploads, and work on getting an RC into the archive
<cyphermox> micahg: juju doesn't affect the archive, only the system on which you run it
<balloons> cyphermox, did you have anything specific you want an update on?
<cyphermox> balloons: not necessarily, but I wasn't at the last meeting, so trying to catch up with approximate resources
<balloons> here's my mail btw https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2016-September/000965.html
<BenC> balloons: I have a single question: How do you plan ro help resolve some of the packaging issues being raised?
<BenC> Speficially, without vague things like âIâm going to make juju great againâ :)
<micahg> cyphermox: right, but isn't the idea to be a layer on top of the package manager to make it even easier to install groups of packages?
<balloons> BenC, :-). Are you speaking about issues like the 32-bit issue?
<cyphermox> micahg: following specific rules which aren't part of juju itself, and those recipes are reviewed differently, etc.
<cyphermox> micahg: it's not very different from chef/puppet, etc.
<BenC> Well, there seems to be a huge discussion on how best to move forward with juju packaging to satisfy some current problems. Things raised last DMB meeting.
<cyphermox> ie. you're always free to destroy your computer, or your datacenter, if you so choose.
<balloons> My goal in general has been to try and make juju a better upstream partner. I've sought to do that by addressing the various packaging issues raised before I started working on the package. This included things like breaking out dependencies and doing regular uploads
<BenC> As juju PPU #1, how would you lead that movement?
<BenC> balloons: Sorry to come across as pushy, but not past. What are your future plans?
<balloons> I push for open discussions on hard issues and seek resolution. It's not ok to just stop doing things once they get hard.
<balloons> My future plans are to beef up the autopkgtests a bit more, and make the juju ci packaging mirror what goes into the archive
<balloons> I want to reduce the release timing for pushing something into a ppa to into the devel archive to nil
<micahg> balloons: not to open up a can of worms, but is there a reason that juju isn't part of the CI train?
<cjwatson> wut
<cjwatson> most packages aren't
<micahg> even the canonical developed ones
<balloons> micahg, the CI train for phone images?
<balloons> if so, the answer is simply that it doesn't ship on those images
<micahg> for the archive
<cjwatson> right, bileto (formerly called the CI train) mainly focuses on the code used on the phone; it's certainly possible to use it for other things, but might well be an impedance mismatch in a lot of cases, and is in no way a requirement
<cyphermox> the CI train isn't meant just for phone images though
<rbasak> Juju does have autopkgtests, assuming they're still there. I wrote a couple.
<cjwatson> and in particular most server packages don't use bileto
<cyphermox> otoh, cjwatson is right, and we shouldn't use it as a crutch to make it easier to do uploads
<balloons> rbasak, absolutely, and they are still there. Specifically, I'm going to try and stamp out archive issues with LXD, cloud-init, or snaps breaking us (or vice versa)
<micahg> it was one potential solution to the "we want point releases quickly"
<balloons> as an aside, who does the manual qa on a silo if it's not going on the phone?
<cyphermox> you, or some other person designated for these uploads.
<sil2100> o/ Sorry for being late, on mobile but around
<balloons> micahg, my solution for that has been to integrate autopkgtesting into our CI, along with running things like lint, and checking for copyrights, etc
<sil2100> The QA process is only for vivid and phone stuff, so other series just get released as is
<balloons> cyphermox, ahh interesting. So I do an upload, get a silo, then I do the signoff?
<sil2100> Bileto, in this regard, can be used for any package anywhere - if, of course, it fits the project needs
<cyphermox> we're drifting away from the subject though, should we go on to vote?
<sil2100> Since as cjwatson mentioned, bileto might 'get in the way' if you dont have autopkgtest or follow some specific release process
<sil2100> Yeah, sorry about that
<cyphermox> #vote for Nicholas Skaggs to get uploads rights for the juju packageset
<meetingology> Please vote on: for Nicholas Skaggs to get uploads rights for the juju packageset
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<balloons> so rbasak, when I say "beef up autopkgtests", I mean adding tests to ensure uploads to lxd, cloud-init, snap-confine don't break our juju packaging or vice versa. We've struggled with catching LXD breakages before they hit the archive
<rbasak> balloons: that wasn't my question :-)
<rbasak> -1 for reasons I explained at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2016-September/000979.html
<meetingology> -1 for reasons I explained at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2016-September/000979.html received from rbasak
<cyphermox> +0, I see some uploads, but I can't look at a few, and I would prefer to see more uploads of other packages that will be on the package set.
<meetingology> +0, I see some uploads, but I can't look at a few, and I would prefer to see more uploads of other packages that will be on the package set. received from cyphermox
<BenC> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from BenC
<sil2100> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from sil2100
<micahg> -1  I agree with most of what rbasak said
<meetingology> -1  I agree with most of what rbasak said received from micahg
<BenC> I trust baloons capability, but I think the first person on juju PPU needs more of a leadership role than a technical one.
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: for Nicholas Skaggs to get uploads rights for the juju packageset
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:2 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Motion denied
<balloons> Thanks for your consideration all. On rbasak's comments, as I told him, I do hope to see some wider discussion as I think he brought up some interesting points around packages and ppu permissions
<sil2100> I think we all would prefer you to do a few more uploads through sponsoring for now, and certainly re-try in a bit
<BenC> Agreed on that.
<balloons> yea, my uploads for things like mongodb never showed up in the miner
<balloons> I can work to make sure my name gets attached to things more; it'll happen naturally anyway
<rbasak> It's OK if they don't show up on the sponsorship miner - just point to them in your (re-)application and explain your involvement.
<rbasak> (with an endorsement from the uploader also describing/confirming your involvement, etc)
<cyphermox> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<bdmurray> Is there a bug in the sponsorship miner then?
<balloons> bdmurray, seems unlikely. More likely is that my sponser uploaded and it has there name (probably very few if any of these). And for the other things, it likely carries someone else who I colloborated with as the uploader
<cyphermox> so, no AOB
<sil2100> Not from me
<cyphermox> but I did forget to write down the ACTION for creating the packageset.. who wants to do it?
<sil2100> I could try
<sil2100> The juju packageset, right?
<cyphermox> yes
<rbasak> Is there any point doing it now?
<sil2100> I would get on it when Im back or tomorrow then if that's needed
<cyphermox> well, you don't have to DO it, just own the action so that we eventually have it done
<rbasak> I suppose it would make it easy to add someone to when it's ready.
<cyphermox> rbasak: not now, but let's not forget.
<cyphermox> ACTION: sil2100 to deal with the juju packageset creation
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 26 16:09:44 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-09-26-15.02.moin.txt
<rbasak> The person who gets the future action to add someone to the packageset won't forget :-)
<cyphermox> hehe
<rbasak> But sure, do it now if desired, because it's a TB action so will take longer.
<rbasak> Then adding will be quick in future.
<sil2100> Thanks cyphermox for chairing!
<cyphermox> sil2100: you're up next ;)
<rbasak> Thanks all!
<sil2100> Ill take the next meeting in this case ;)
<sil2100> Yeah ;)
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 26 16:31:30 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Otto KekÃ¤lÃ¤inen (otto) provided updates for trusty and xenial for mariadb (LP: #1605493)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1605493 in mariadb-5.5 (Ubuntu) "USN-3040-1: MySQL vulnerabilities partially applies to MariaDB too" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1605493
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hey
<jdstrand> last week I focused a lot on the docker interface, ancillary interface/backend reviews and getting the docker snap to work on classic. The interface is merged and I syncd with stakeholders to get an updated docker in the store.
<jdstrand> Also did a lot of PR reviews, updated the dbus-app interface and discussed the unity8 interface with ted
<jdstrand> snap-declaration assertions in the review tools and other review tools updates
<jdstrand> iterate on the dbus-app interface (hopefully, waiting for PR feedback)
<jdstrand> PR reviews, especially wrt /run/media and udisks2
<jdstrand> continue to investigate what a 'network-namespace' interface might look like
<jdstrand> few more policy updates and policy bugs to look at
<jdstrand> snap-declaration assertions in the review tools and other review tools updates
<jdstrand> oh, I repeated one of those. it's that important :)
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on an embargoed issue
<mdeslaur> and I have samba and clamav updates ready for testing
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I made progress on some apparmor reviews last week, and will finish those up
<sbeattie> I have kernel signoffs to get through today
<sbeattie> I'll try to pick up an update from the list as well
<sbeattie> that's it for me, tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> I'm trying to do SRU verification (LP: #1580463) (LP: #1614215)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1580463 in im-config (Ubuntu Xenial) "Snap blocks access to system input methods (ibus, fcitx, ...)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1580463
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1614215 in apparmor (Ubuntu Xenial) ""md5sums differ" message seems to indicate an install problem" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1614215
<tyhicks> jdstrand: it looks like im-config was removed from xenial-proposed :/
<tyhicks> jdstrand: could you re-upload and I'll handle the SRU verification?
<tyhicks> after that, I'll be back on trying to bring AppArmor UNIX domain socket mediation back to 14.04 + hardware enablement kernel
<tyhicks> I hit a blocker last week and I'm now taking a different approach
<tyhicks> I have some packaging changes to make today so that we continue to ship the 14.04 policy in the backported 16.04 package
<tyhicks> then I'll be testing
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<tyhicks> sbeattie: either you or I need to look at bug #1627304 this week
<ubottu> bug 1627304 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "User locking problems - guest login crashing" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1627304
<sbeattie> tyhicks: okay
<tyhicks> sbeattie: I can get to it mid-week and will let you know if/when I start working on it
<tyhicks> I think jj isn't around just yet
<tyhicks> sarnold: are you here?
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: go ahead
<chrisccoulson> I've got a minor Oxide update to do this week. There aren't any planned Mozilla updates
<chrisccoulson> I've got a few Oxide code reviews to get through too
<chrisccoulson> Also, Firefox and Thunderbird fail to build on various architectures in yakkety, so I need to spend some time on that
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working through Oxide bugs as usual
<tyhicks> thanks chrisccoulson
<tyhicks> ratliff: you're up
<ratliff> I'm on bug triage this week
<ratliff> I'm finalizing the pillow update
<ratliff> Design doc review and other internal tasks to complete
<ratliff> back to you, tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks!
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/k4dirstat.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/iscsitarget.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/zeroinstall-injector.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/w3af.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/minizip.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<sarnold> hey, sorry I'm late
<sarnold> MIRs this week, not sure which ones to start next
<sbeattie> tyhicks: ^
<sarnold> and I'm on community
<ratliff> ubuntu-terminal-app
<sarnold> thanks ratliff :)
<tyhicks> yep
<tyhicks> and zmqpp after that
<sarnold> lets hope lukasz fixes the ftbfs :)
<sarnold> it sounded promising but he mentioned silos and I lost track
<tyhicks> sarnold: a fixed upload is in the unapproved queue
<tyhicks> sarnold: see the bug report
<tyhicks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zmqpp/+bug/1617005/comments/4
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1617005 in zmqpp (Ubuntu) "[MIR] zmqpp" [Undecided,New]
<tyhicks> sarnold: might be worth kicking that build off while looking at ubuntu-terminal-app :)
<tyhicks> does anyone have anything else?
<sarnold> heh, ubuntu-terminal-app doesn't even show up in umt search :/
<tyhicks> I'm confused by that one
<tyhicks> maybe ratliff can get you more info?
<ratliff> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-terminal-app/+bug/1625074
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1625074 in ubuntu-terminal-app (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ubuntu-terminal-app" [High,Confirmed]
<tyhicks> ratliff: it isn't in Ubuntu: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-terminal-app
<ratliff> the code is in launchpad and linked to off of that MIR
<tyhicks> lets discuss this outside of the meeting so that everyone else can go about their day
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 26 16:51:40 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-09-26-16.31.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<ratliff> thanks, tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-09-27
<cpaelzer> early o/
<smoser> o/
<jgrimm> o/
<caribou> \o
<coreycb> o/
<coreycb> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 27 16:00:22 2016 UTC.  The chair is coreycb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<coreycb> hi all
<coreycb> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<coreycb> jgrimm, Add a url for server release bugs to irc commands for meetings
<coreycb> jgrimm, do you have that handy?
<coreycb> it used to be there, I think
<jgrimm> ok, i spent some time thinking what i want to do there.  i'll leave as is, but look at fixing up the rls-y report if needed, and probably add back the rls-x url for weekly review
<jgrimm> coreycb, this was really just a reminder for myself to figure out how to make this a more productive irc meeting.
<jgrimm> please change my action to clean up rls-x and add back to agenda
<coreycb> jgrimm, ok, will do.  fyi looking at the irc commands I don't see a bug link there.
<jgrimm> i started poking people on the rls-x bugs that are sort of stuck in limbo or stale state this morning.
<jgrimm> i need to add back the rls-y url then
<coreycb> ok
<jgrimm> fair to leave the current action then too
<coreycb> jamespage, any news on this action item? checkin with old iscsitarget users on relevancy with new kernels
<coreycb> greyback, ok
<coreycb> whoa, jgrimm ^
<jgrimm> hehe
<greyback> np
<coreycb> greyback, sorry
<coreycb> powersj, any news on this action item? to put together iso testing signup sheet
 * greyback got an invite to this meeting, but no idea why. jibel?
<ogra_> greyback, see warthogs ML
<powersj> coreycb, done
<jgrimm> coreycb, powersj is at a QA sprint this week
<jgrimm> may not be available atm
<ogra_> greyback, (and wrong channel anyway :P )
<jgrimm> but he did accomplish that task
<coreycb> powersj, awesome, I'll take it off the list
<greyback> ogra_: tnx (heh, true too!)
<cpaelzer> more participation at any price
<coreycb> jgrimm, he responded so fast I don't think you saw it
<jgrimm> coreycb, indeed!!!
<coreycb> :)
<coreycb> ok moving on
<coreycb> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<coreycb> we're in final beta freeze, 2 days from kernel freeze
<coreycb> one week and 2 days until final freeze (Oct 6)
<coreycb> and release is Oct 13th
<jgrimm> yeah, hopefully final beta will release today
<coreycb> also, next week is openstack's final release
<coreycb> for Newton
<coreycb> so that works out, a week before Yakkety
<coreycb> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jgrimm> so on the  subject of final freeze, if there are bugs that we really really need to get in for server..  i want to be aware of them.   hit me on #ubuntu-server or email
<coreycb> ok anything else for bugs?  I have no links to share.
<jgrimm> the rls-y report is actually very clean
<coreycb> er wait there's this: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jgrimm> coreycb, thanks
<coreycb> jgrimm, I added that link to the irc commands
<coreycb> jgrimm, action item done for next week!
<jgrimm> smoser is working on this one yet for FF -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-initramfs-tools/+bug/1493188
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1493188 in cloud-utils (Ubuntu Xenial) ""overlayfs" no longer exists" [Medium,Confirmed]
<jgrimm> coreycb, :)
<smoser> and i need to verify and makr so on the 'overlayroot' piece of that
<smoser> and upload the cloud-utils piece (mount-image-callback)
<smoser> both will happen today.
<jgrimm> thanks smoser
<coreycb> not many bugs for ubuntu-server in that list.  bug 1616107 is listed under ubuntu-server but it looks like the kernel team is working on it.
<ubottu> bug 1616107 in linux (Ubuntu Xenial) "Kernel oops + system freeze on network-bridge shutdown" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1616107
<jgrimm> coreycb, correct.  i screened the list this morning. you can move on
<cpaelzer> Y-dev as well - fyi @ rharper: bug 1628101 was a red herring and not due to bug 1626070
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1628101 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1628101). The error has been logged
<ubottu> bug 1626070 in qemu (Ubuntu) "Removal of former release machine types breaks VMs using them" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626070
<cpaelzer> once read enough of it you realize it is by breaking your local system with a manually built qemu
<nacc> hrm, odd, just hit a git-clone failure (not /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates on a fresh yakkety image (might be another bug :)
<nacc> definitely worked last week :/
<jgrimm> thanks cpaelzer
<coreycb> ok thanks, test test test and report bugs for yakkety
<coreycb> let's move on
<coreycb> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> coreycb: nothing particular to bring up, thanks!
<coreycb> caribou, ok thanks!
<coreycb> anything for caribou ?
<jgrimm> yes
<jgrimm> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-y-server-core
<jgrimm> caribou, anything to update there ^^ or i can copy forward to z blueprint
<caribou> jgrimm: well, two of them are completed, so I'll mark them as such
<caribou> jgrimm: hmm, maybe even three of them, I think that the only one that needs to be carried forward is the secureboot one
<caribou> jgrimm: I'll do a pass after the meeting & confirm to you
<jgrimm> thanks caribou!!
<jgrimm> coreycb, that is all
<coreycb> #action caribou to take a pass on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-y-server-core
<meetingology> ACTION: caribou to take a pass on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-y-server-core
<coreycb> thanks caribou
<coreycb> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> Lots of work on server ISO testing and triage. Yesterday's and today's dailies appear to be passing tests finally. Added i386 slave to server team Jenkins. Currently at QA sprint for the week, I was monitoring the server ISO, but we now have working dailies :)
<coreycb> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<coreycb> \o/
<coreycb> thanks powersj
<coreycb> anything for powersj ?
<coreycb> ok let's move on
<coreycb> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<coreycb> smb, sforshee, arges, hi, anyone around?
<coreycb> they must be occupied, so let's move on
<coreycb> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
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<jgrimm> none from me
<coreycb> ok none here either
<coreycb> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<coreycb> any events upcoming?
<coreycb> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<coreycb> does anyone have anything they'd like to bring up?
<jgrimm> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-z-server-core
<jgrimm> I opened a z blueprint to start putting placeholder workitems against ^^
<jgrimm> feel free to add to it as needed
<cpaelzer> any deadline once it shall feel complete associated?
<jgrimm> will use in the past, as just a common work area
<jgrimm> but i'd like to do better about getting a jump on merges in early 17.04 cycle
<coreycb> jgrimm, ok thanks
<coreycb> #topic Assign daily bug triage for week (powersj, rbasak, nacc, cpaelzer)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Assign daily bug triage for week (powersj, rbasak, nacc, cpaelzer)
<powersj> I think we are good here
<coreycb> I'm not sure what to do here
<coreycb> ok
<cpaelzer> assignment for the week is ok
<cpaelzer> we covered those who are ou
<cpaelzer> t
<powersj> just kick nacc and cpaelzer to do their stuff :P
<cpaelzer> except anybody want to take another bug to work on?
<coreycb> nacc, cpaelzer: do your stuff
<cpaelzer> any hands raising?
<powersj> \o/
<jgrimm> i've updated spreadsheet for my items already
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> then we are good for the week
<coreycb> cpaelzer, thanks
<coreycb> #topic Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
<coreycb> looks like rbasak isn't online
<powersj> he is out
<powersj> quick sidebar: thought we were going to remove these two topics
<jgrimm> oops. mey previous comment was for this ^^  spreadsheet updated
<jgrimm> powersj, definitely the triage
<powersj> ok
<coreycb> ok do we want to cover anything here or should we skip this?
<jgrimm> coreycb, skip along
<coreycb> alright
<coreycb> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<coreycb> Same time same place next week
<coreycb> Thanks everyone!
<coreycb> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 27 16:32:36 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-09-27-16.00.moin.txt
<cpaelzer> thanks coreycb !
<jgrimm> thanks coreycb!!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-09-29
<barry> o/
<sil2100> o/
<caribou> \o
<tdaitx> o\
<cyphermox> o/
<robru> \o/
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 29 15:03:23 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek>  echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson)
<slangasek> mwhudson slangasek sil2100 infinity robru caribou pitti xnox chiluk tdaitx cyphermox bdmurray barry doko
<slangasek>  * final beta released
<cyphermox> you win
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> :)
<sil2100> Wow
<sil2100> Ok
<sil2100> ;)
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - Filling an SRU for touch xenial livecd-rootfs bits
<sil2100> - Cleaning up, releasing and syncing all the livecd-rootfs changes to bzr
<sil2100> - DMB meeting
<sil2100> - Helping out with getting the ubuntu-push MIR-fix silo prepared
<sil2100> - Fixing up broken xenial image builds
<sil2100> - Landing the ubuntu-settings-components and address-book silo for i386 touch builds fixing
<sil2100> - landing-team-tools snap:
<sil2100>   * Reorganized the scripts file structure for easy installation, prepped the yaml
<sil2100>   * Debugging why the script snaps aren't working (something in LD_LIBRARY_PATH breaking)
<sil2100> - Investigating and fixing the pyzmq new constants unit test failure with the new zeromq3
<sil2100> - Resolving ubuntu-keyboard and unity8 migration issues (caused by a double copy to Unapproved)
<sil2100> - Playing around with Rocket
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> infinity is out at a conference
<slangasek> robru:
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> * cache swift account token (fixes issue where it occaisionally fails to be discovered)
<robru> * update status immediately after regenerating diffs (not after builds)
<robru> * upload excuses files to swift
<robru> * some cosmetic tweaks (more status colors, status icon tweaks)
<robru> * put date of last activity into PPA display name, aids discovering stale tickets.
<robru> * update disconnect handling as per sqlalchemy docs
<robru> * drop support for python <3.5  :-D
<robru> * fix nagios checks
<robru> * working with sbalda on adding UST support (incomplete)
<robru> britney2-ubuntu
<robru> * performance improvements, accepted upstream
<barry> robru: \o/
<barry> robru: and just in time for 3.6 :)
<sil2100> hah ;)
<robru> barry: heh, we'll be on xenial for a bit ;-)
<slangasek> caribou: hi there
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou>  APT hash sum mismatch when using mirror:// url (LP: #1625667)
<caribou>   - SRU awaiting verification
<caribou>  /etc/multipath/wwids not updated upon restart (LP: #1621835)
<caribou>   - Reviewed fix with cyphermox
<caribou>     About to upload for SRU now that .14 is released
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1625667 in apt (Ubuntu Trusty) "Trusty: apt does not try next mirror if index file download fails with mirror:// source" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1625667
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1621835 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu Trusty) "multipathd reconfigure does not update /etc/multipath/wwids file on trusty" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1621835
<caribou> Development:
<caribou>  Working on a sosreport charm : mostly ready for review
<caribou>  tomsfastpath MIR :
<caribou>   - Will postpone the MIR to 17.04 and used  the
<caribou>     package 0.99-2 from Xenial uploaded by the security team
<caribou>  makedumpfile not working on kernel 4.8 (LP: #1626269)
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1626269 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626269). The error has been logged
<caribou>   - investigating issue with upstream
<caribou>  Various sponsorship : zfs-linux, multipath-tools
<caribou> Misc:
<caribou> meetings
<caribou> â Done
<barry> robru: i'm already bored with yakkety and can't wait for zazzy zorilla
<robru> barry: zippy zebra!
 * xnox ponders if it's my turn
<slangasek> caribou: tomfastpath> yay, will be glad to have that off the mismatch list :)
<slangasek> pitti is also at conference today
<slangasek> xnox:
<xnox> * s390x v4.8 testing (trianged/closed v4.8 request bugs reported by ibm)
<xnox> * final beta s390x respin tests
<xnox> * fully automated z/VM basic d-i test (takes less than 6 minutes, with reporting to the iso tracker)
<xnox> * gnupg2 environment proxy fix in dirmntr
<xnox> * added support to apt-key fragments to software-properties
<xnox> * fixed degraded boot of console-setup on serial-only systems
<xnox> * in-progress / reviews needed - signing archive & dist-upgrade tarballs with 4k key only in z-series and up
<xnox> * adding support to apt-key fragments to the dist-upgrader (will send merge proposal soon)
<xnox> * point release update of btrfs-progs
<xnox> done
<caribou> slangasek: I'll try to get it done by early next week
<chiluk> - LP 1628363 - Hit an odd situation where my USB Hub was detected but it's ports and devices were not enumerated.  Could not reproduce, but I'll keep an eye on it in case it's not a one off hardware issue.
<chiluk> - Learned more about snappy, and presented findings to STS on the matter.  Is the foundations team responsible for snapping the majority of main and universe?
<chiluk> - Aside from that mostly non public ceph emergencies.
<chiluk> -done-
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1628363 in linux (Ubuntu Xenial) "VIA VL812 hub stops working with 4.4.0-40.60" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1628363
<slangasek> xnox: automated z/VM d-i test - is that something you can give details to powersj about so we can also use it for ISO smoketesting?
<xnox> slangasek, don't think so. This is using scripted 3270 terminal connections. And i thought that z/VM 3270 terminal is s390 special thing.... or does power use that line oriented console too?
<slangasek> xnox: that's the IRC nick of the Server Team's QA engineer, not a reference to the POWER architecture ;)
<chiluk> slangasek which team is responsible for snapping up most of the packages in main and universe?
<slangasek> chiluk: mu
<xnox> ah
<xnox> sure.
<chiluk> slangasek.. I'm just going to assume that's a typo or emotional outburst.
<cyphermox> no tdaitx
<slangasek> chiluk: or you could understand it as the answer to "What is the sound of one hand snapping"
<chiluk> lol..
<slangasek> cyphermox: indeed, go ahead
<cyphermox> MIR:
<cyphermox> - review mediaplayer-app
<cyphermox> yakkety:
<cyphermox> - fighting NetworkManager and pkexec for ubiquity
<cyphermox>   - for NM wifi connection via the ubiquity network dialog
<cyphermox> - hw-detect modprobe fix (bug LP: #1602717)
<cyphermox> - more initramfs-tools fixes for IPv6
<cyphermox>   - fixing iscsi without ip= set
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1602717 in hw-detect (Ubuntu Xenial) "hw-detect modprobes blindly, ignoring blacklists" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1602717
<cyphermox> Â±other stuff:
<cyphermox> - fixing up initramfs-tools and isc-dhcp
<cyphermox> - subiquity code reviews
<cyphermox> - subiquity keyboard setup
<cyphermox> - prepared grub upload for new shim renamed binaries
<cyphermox> - submitting shim for signing
<cyphermox> - looks like I found out why ppc wasn't bootable for lubuntu; more investigation needed.
<cyphermox> (done â)
<slangasek> chiluk: snaps are not a replacement for debs, "most of the packages" in the archive are not things anyone would snap, and it's not anyone's responsibility to snap things that aren't useful to them as snaps
<cyphermox> hey tdaitx
<cyphermox> it's your turn :)
<tdaitx> = jck
<tdaitx> * Getting communication to work is a problem when running on 2 separated nodes
<tdaitx>  - No easy way to grab ip addresses from jenkins nodes before a build (in our setup node name is not DNS resolvable)
<tdaitx>  - Nodes instances are ephemeral, hardcoded ips are a no go
<tdaitx>  - Accessing the jenkins server *might* work but that requires a bot login for API access; checking if I can somehow reuse the session data from a running job to call the API
<chiluk> slangasek how are we supposed to get a to a fully snappified ubuntu server install for 18.04 then?
<tdaitx>  - Current setup works on a single node using LXD, but that won't work for PPC64EL/ARM64 as an official jck host must run Oracle's reference implementation (and that's AMD64 only)
<tdaitx> * Trying to expose interactive tests from within the container
<tdaitx> * Gathering test results and exposing them through Jenkins
<tdaitx> * Packaged scripts for and easier "install"
<tdaitx> = proposed migration
<tdaitx> - subscribed ubuntu-sponsors to mozart and mozart-stdlib removal request, up for grabs (LP: #1623951 and LP:#1623962)
<tdaitx> - tracking down pkgbinarymangler error that causes on freevo to FTBFS
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1623951 in mozart (Ubuntu) "please remove mozart from yakkety" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1623951
<tdaitx> irc connection fubar on the right moment
<slangasek> tdaitx: wat
<bdmurray> short week / holiday last Friday
<bdmurray> updated RT 95447 regarding ValueErrors w/ the daisy app servers
<bdmurray> bugbot updates to tag release upgrade bugs w/ from and to release
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader bug triage
<bdmurray> investigation into ubuntu-release-upgrader test failure
<bdmurray> updated meta-release files to say wily is unsupported
<bdmurray> fixed update-notifier test failure because of stderr
<bdmurray> unattended-upgrade bug triage
<bdmurray> worked on a bug fix for LP: #1544942
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1544942 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "Marks unneeded packages as manually installed, if --dry-run is used" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1544942
<bdmurray> foundations bug triage
<bdmurray> irc discussion with mvo re: unattended-upgrade bugs
<bdmurray> irc discussion with rbasak re SRU team
<bdmurray> explained the Error Tracker and how to use it to a dev
<bdmurray> â done
<barry> working with pitti on using autopkgtest for github/gitlab pr/mr testing (debian bug #839072).
<ubottu> Debian bug 839072 in autopkgtest "autopkgtest: Allow for GitHub-style PR urls" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/839072
<barry> ubuntu-image landings/branches (argument-order, coverage, mkfs.ext4, LP: #1617445, etc)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1617445 in Ubuntu Image "Pay down coverage tech debt" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617445
<barry> LP: #1627198 (*lots* of kernel bisect testing w/jsalisbury)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1627198 in linux (Ubuntu Yakkety) "4.8.0 kernels do not complete boot process on VM" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1627198
<barry> LP: #1627692 (investigation)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1627692 in Snappy "Error when model file is not in $HOME" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1627692
<barry> debian bug #838531 (nose2 ftbfs)
<ubottu> Debian bug 838531 in src:nose2 "nose2: FTBFS in testing (failing tests)" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/838531
<barry> reviewed https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/subiquity/pull/167
<barry> â done
<tdaitx> slangasek, ?
<slangasek> ah, and doko also at conference
<slangasek> any questions?
<caribou> slangasek: regarding tomsfastmath MIR & clamav, should the current clamav 0.99.2+dfsg-2ubuntu1 in yakkety-proposed be pulled out ?
<slangasek> caribou: to what end? you just need to upload another version, which ought to be a higher version number, I think
<caribou> slangasek: wasn't sure it would override the one already in -proposed
<slangasek> caribou: if you try to use a lower version number it would be rejected
<slangasek> so add the other changes as a delta on top of the merge?
<caribou> slangasek: ok, will review the delta b/w both
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else today?
<slangasek> I assume, with two weeks until release, everyone is furiously cleaning out -proposed and helping resolve build failures
<barry> slangasek: take the sound of crickets as a resounding "yes!"
<slangasek> quite
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> or maybe you've all just deadlocked your systemds
<slangasek> either way
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 29 15:24:36 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-09-29-15.03.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<caribou> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-10-01
<Silviaa> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-09-26
<slashd> hi rharper , I see you are chairing the mtg today. I just came back from vacation, so I'm still having a tons of emails to read, things to deal with .... I won't attend the mtg today. I have nothing to report for the "Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads" today. I'll attend the meeting as usual starting next week (no more conference/vacation plan for the rest of the year so far)
<slashd> ddstreet, ^
<rharper> slashd: thanks
<rharper> o/
<powersj> o/
<ahasenack> o/
<rharper> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 26 16:02:17 2017 UTC.  The chair is rharper. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rharper> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rharper> nacc: your items?
<rharper> * nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<rharper> * nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<nacc> rharper: carry please
<rharper> k
<rharper> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<rharper> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<rharper> already discussed with rabask
<rharper> #action rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<rbasak> Carry over again please
<rharper> y
<rharper> #action nacc to consider http2 info in artful release notes
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to consider http2 info in artful release notes
<rharper> nacc: carry that as well?
 * rharper assumes so
<rharper> * cpaelzer to add a virt-stack release notes entry
<rharper> all done?
<cpaelzer> done
<cpaelzer> +ovs
<cpaelzer> +dpdk
<rharper> #done cpaelzer to add a virt-stack release notes entry (+ovs, +dpdk)
<rharper> * ahasenack add a release note entry on the bind9 key signing key change
<rharper> all done ?
<ahasenack> done
<rharper> cool
<rharper> #done ahasenack add a release note entry on the bind9 key signing key change
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Server
<rharper> * smoser to add a cloud init (and if there is something curtin) release notes entry for artful
<smoser> not done
<rharper> #action smoser to add a cloud init (and if there is something curtin) release notes entry for artful (carry over)
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser to add a cloud init (and if there is something curtin) release notes entry for artful (carry over)
<rharper> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<rharper> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<rharper> anything to discuss ?
<rharper> beta freeze?
<rharper> #subtopic Current Work
<rharper> #link https://trello.com/b/U9HhWyT0/daily-ubuntu-server
<rharper> #subtopic Release Bugs
<rharper> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rharper> any hot items to discuss ?
<rharper> moving on
<rharper> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
<rharper> slashd already mentioned before the meeting, nothing to report, will have an update for next week
<rharper> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rharper> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rharper> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<ahasenack> nothing from me
<rharper> k
<rharper> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<rharper> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> Completed release testing of cloud-init 17.1. Removed integration test dependency on shlex. All ISO tests are green, except RAID1 preseed tests, still, need to triage. git-ubuntu CI was updated to build and test on Xenial only.
<rharper> \o/
<powersj> This week attending Ubuntu rally with the objective of coming out of this with a plan for cloud based cloud-init testing and any final enhancements for test cases and feature flags.
<powersj> questions?
<rharper> I'm good, thanks powersj
<rharper> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<sforshee> smb seems to not be here
<rharper> indeed
<rharper> in some rally room
<sforshee> 4.13 is now in artful-release ... nothing else I can think of to mention
<rharper> ok, thanks
<rharper> #info 4.13 is now in artful-release
<rharper> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
<rharper> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<rharper> anything new here ?
<nacc> rharper: sorry, yes
<rharper> nacc: I had already actioned it, assuming you meant yes to all
<nacc> rharper: thanks
<rharper> #info no updates in Call For Papers
<ahasenack> no new cfps from me
<rharper> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<rharper> On-going Ubuntu Rally, right now
<rharper> #link https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ubunturally?src=hash
<rharper> #topic askubuntu.com questions (teward) - Better communication with community.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: askubuntu.com questions (teward) - Better communication with community.
<rbasak> teward: if you're around, we were wondering about expanding bug triage to watching relevant askubuntu.com questions.
<rbasak> We were thinking about watching a tag, and it would be nice if moderators and other editors knew that it could be used to get our attention by adding the tag.
<rbasak> Thought about communicating with relevant askubuntu.com people early to discuss this idea, and your name came up.
<rbasak> If you're not about, we can defer to a future meeting.
<rharper> #info discussion about expanding bug triage for ubuntu-server by watching relevant askubuntu.com questions, deferring to another irc meeting
<rharper> #action re-raise askubuntu.com questions (teward) - Better communication with community discussion
<meetingology> ACTION: re-raise askubuntu.com questions (teward) - Better communication with community discussion
<rharper> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<ahasenack> nothing from me
<rharper> ...
<nacc> git-ubuntu x on x is about to pass locally
<rbasak> Nice!
<nacc> git-ubutu x on aa is ... still failig
<nacc> classic snaps and building on artful = death.
<nacc> and it's taken ~1 week to not build on artful :)
<rharper> #info git-ubuntu x on x is about to pass locally
<nacc> but i'm learning lots of python build stuff, and our setup.py actually works now, which might mean we can do pypi
<rharper> #info git-ubutu x on aa is ... still failing
<rharper> nacc: cool; if you've specific questions, do ping in #snappy or email we can corner some folks this week
<rharper> also the forum (snappy)
<rharper> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<nacc> rharper: dpb and rbasak have a linnk to the docs i'm writing
<rharper> #info Next meeting is Tue Oct  3 16:23:30 UTC 2017  (minus about 24 minutes) , and chair will be powersj
<rharper> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 26 16:23:57 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-09-26-16.02.moin.txt
<rharper> \o/
<ahasenack> thx
<powersj> \o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-09-24
<sil2100> o/
 * sil2100 is around but preparing late lunch
<sil2100> ahasenack: IIRC you wanted to apply today, right?
<ahasenack> sil2100: yes, but I'm aware many are returning from sprints, so I'm not sure if the meeting will have quorum
<ahasenack> I also just returned from a sprint, am still a bit groggy from the long travel :)
<sil2100> Let's try, if not would you mind moving it to the next meeting? Or you want to go by e-mail? (there's a chance we'd do better this time)
<ahasenack> I'm fine with moving it to the next meeting
<cyphermox> o/
<jbicha> o/
<sil2100> \o
<sil2100> Still one to go for quorum
<tsimonq2> o/
<sil2100> Excellent
<tsimonq2> I can't host because I'm on mobile, anyone else want to get this rolling?
<sil2100> I can, but won't be able to react super fast
<sil2100> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 24 15:09:09 2018 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<sil2100> I see no action items, so let's proceed to applications
<sil2100> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
<sil2100> #subtopic Andreas Hasenack (ahasenack)
<sil2100> ahasenack: o/
<sil2100> ahasenack: could you introduce yourself?
<ahasenack> hello!
<ahasenack> I'm Andreas Hasenack, this is my Coredev application: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreasHasenack/CoredevApplication
<sil2100> Application: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreasHasenack/CoredevApplication
<sil2100> Ah ;)
<ahasenack> I became an ubuntu server developer last year, and since then I'm working on many more packages in ubuntu server
<ahasenack> my current passion is adding/fixing dep8 tests
<ahasenack> I'm also striving to push our changes back to upstream and debian
<ahasenack> in my application I listed a few examples of each of these aspects of what I'm doing
<cyphermox> I especially like the "things I like the least" section
<ahasenack> in the sprint last week one of those was addressed
<ahasenack> the "packages stuck in migration-proposed" one
<ahasenack> now there is https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/cosmic/update_excuses_by_team.html
<sil2100> It's a very good and detailed application btw.
<cyphermox> ahasenack: yep
<cyphermox> ahasenack: I'm preparing to address one more today ;)
<ahasenack> nice!
<ahasenack> ocfs2-tools and mysql are being addressed
<ahasenack> ruby is new, but I've seen an email about it being checked already (in our team)
<ahasenack> I also like going after ftbfs issues, doko's email is always a good summary
<ahasenack> sil2100: thanks
<tsimonq2> I'm ready to vote; very solid application. :)
<sil2100> Any questions? jbicha, cyphermox?
<cyphermox> nope. Solid application, I like what I see
<jbicha> I don't have any questions here
<sil2100> Ok, let's start voting then
<sil2100> #vote ahasenack coredev application
<meetingology> Please vote on: ahasenack coredev application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<tsimonq2> +1 Keep up the great work
<meetingology> +1 Keep up the great work received from tsimonq2
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<jbicha> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jbicha
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<sil2100> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: ahasenack coredev application
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<sil2100> ahasenack: congratulations!
<ahasenack> thank you guys!
<tsimonq2> Congrats!
<sil2100> I guess everyone saw it coming
<sil2100> ;)
<ahasenack> let's make ubuntu rock even more
<tsimonq2> woot
<sil2100> +1!
<sil2100> #action sil2100 to add ahasenack to core-dev and send announcements
<meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to add ahasenack to core-dev and send announcements
<sil2100> I'll take care of it once I'm done with lunch
<sil2100> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<sil2100> Any other business for today?
<tsimonq2> One thing, perhaps.
<tsimonq2> (sec to type it)
<sil2100> Ok, I'll brb in a minute with some food
<tsimonq2> infinity was maybe talking about making the DMB core-dev only (rather than ubuntu-dev) once I became a core-dev. Is that something everyone would be comfortable doing? Is this something we enforce or the TB does? Thoughts? :)
<cyphermox> I don't know that it's absolutely necessary
<cyphermox> but I'm not opposed to it
<cyphermox> I mean, it's not because one is not a core-dev that one can't evaluate the application of people
<cyphermox> the only issue is that it in theory gives access to grant core-dev to oneself.
<tsimonq2> Right.
<tsimonq2> Should I raise this on the mailing list maybe?
<sil2100> I think we need to bring it up for discussion somewhere with more people
<sil2100> This feels to me like the kind of thing that I'd prefer to let the TB decide as well
<cyphermox> well, there's some benefit on having a concensus among the DMB first ;)
<tsimonq2> Agreed on both points
<cyphermox> tsimonq2: you were in that position, maybe send the email, and bring up how it was for you?
<tsimonq2> cyphermox: Sure.
<sil2100> Sure, not saying we shouldn't have consensus in the DMB, I was talking more about the actual final decision
<cyphermox> yeah, absolutely
<sil2100> tsimonq2: thanks!
<cyphermox> tsimonq2: thanks! :)
<tsimonq2> np :)
<tsimonq2> Anything else?
<sil2100> Any other topics?
<cyphermox> nothing here
<sil2100> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 24 15:32:41 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-09-24-15.09.moin.txt
<ahasenack> cheers
<cyphermox> thanks sil2100
<tsimonq2> Thanks everyone
<cyphermox> ahasenack: congrats
<sil2100> Thanks everyone o/
<ahasenack> thanks
<tsimonq2> ahasenack: Congrats :)
<ahasenack> :)
<ahasenack> cya
<tsimonq2> o/
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 24 16:31:46 2018 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> The generalist role rotation for this week as follows:
<jdstrand> CVE Triage: sarnold, Bug Triage: sbeattie, Community: amurray, Happy Place: mdeslaur, leosilva, ebarretto,  msalvatore
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security Team is hiring! Please see: Ubuntu Security engineer: https://boards.greenhouse.io/canonical/jobs/1158266?t=8c0a6c1f1
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> This week I plan to work on:
<jdstrand>    * continue brand store snap declarations
<jdstrand>    * continue kubernetes-support interfaces
<jdstrand>    * various snapd PR reviews
<jdstrand>    * iterate on docker PRs
<jdstrand> that's it from me. mdes laur is off today. sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on bug triage this week
<sbeattie> I have an imagemagick update to finish up
<sbeattie> I have some kernel signoffs to complete and the usual kernel cve triage to handle
<sbeattie> I also have an embargoed issue on my plate
<sbeattie> I also have some apparmor tasks to look at.
<sbeattie> That'll more than likely consume my week.
<sbeattie> jjohansen: over to you.
<jdstrand> let's come back to jjohansen
<jdstrand> sarnold: go ahead
<jjohansen> oops sorry
<ebarretto> jdstrand, sarnold is out today
<jdstrand> oh, I forgot
<jdstrand> CheGuevara978: go ahead
<jdstrand> meh
<jdstrand> CheGuevara978: nm
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: go ahead
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> I'm expecting a firefox update from the desktop team this week to test and publish
<chrisccoulson> I'm also working on the woff2 MIR
<chrisccoulson> those shouldn't take up my whole week, so I'll be available to take on some other stuff too
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: can you pick the next item off the reviews lane?
<jdstrand> leosilva: go ahead
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, sure
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: thanks!
<ebarretto> jdstrand, leosilva is also out this week
<jdstrand> jeez
<jdstrand> ebarretto: perhaps I should have run this by you :)
<jdstrand> ebarretto: thanks
<jdstrand> msalvatore: go ahead
<msalvatore> I'm in the happy place this week.
<msalvatore> I'm planning on focusing on CVE fixes all week unless something else comes up.
<msalvatore> That's it for me.
<jdstrand> msalvatore: did you have particular fixes in mind?
<jdstrand> msalvatore: in terms of source packages?
<msalvatore> jdstrand: I'm working through a lot of re-triage ATM. I'm pushing out a fix for sleuthkit today. After that, I may tackle some nodejs issues.
<jdstrand> cool, thanks
<jdstrand> ebarretto: you're up
<jdstrand> ebarretto: you're not going to tell me you are off today are you?
<ebarretto> jdstrand, nope heeheh
<ebarretto> I'm in the happy place this week:
<ebarretto> - I am working on updating opencv for bionic and devel, just finishing tests
<ebarretto> - I am also working on updating hdf5 for bionic and devel, also finishing tests
<ebarretto> - I will also work on libav for trusty (this might take some time based on the number of CVEs for this package)
<ebarretto> - continue retriaging CVEs
<ebarretto> that's it for me
<jdstrand> jjohansen: go ahead
<jjohansen> I am working on apparmor items for the 4.20 pull request: mjg secmark patch, kernel_t label for kernel network tasks, and the nonewprivs work. In addition I am work on LSM stacking patches
<jjohansen> that is it for me and will take me well beyond this week :(
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security
<jdstrand> updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> sbeattie, jjohansen, chrisccoulson, msalvatore, ebarretto: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 24 16:50:01 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-09-24-16.31.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-09-25
<cyphermox> doko: didrocks: jdstrand: cpaelzer: MIR team ping?
<cpaelzer> yeah I'm here
 * jdstrand is here
<jamespage> o/
<cyphermox> jamespage: hey
<didrocks> hey!
<cyphermox> do you have a meeting at this time?
<jamespage> yep this one :)
<didrocks> that's what was in my calendar
<cpaelzer> only this one as agreed last week
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 25 13:00:03 2018 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> anybody absolutely wants to chair?
<didrocks> seems you started :)
<didrocks> I'm fine with not chairing :p
<cyphermox> ack
<cyphermox> well, let's carry on
<cyphermox> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<doko> hi
<cyphermox> I'm playing it by ear, bear with me
<cpaelzer> new since X?
<cyphermox> new since the last I noticed
<cyphermox> sorting the bugs by bug number?
<didrocks> fine with me
<cyphermox> there's pmdk
<cpaelzer> I updated pmdk
<cyphermox> LP: #1790856
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1790856 in pmdk (Ubuntu) "[MIR] pmdk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1790856
<cyphermox> ok
<cpaelzer> this is now on the security team
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: wasn't it server team?
<cpaelzer> it is ours
<cyphermox> ok
<cpaelzer> but all former concerns were eliminated
<cyphermox> alright
<cpaelzer> next step, security
<cyphermox> kk
<jdstrand> it is in our prioritized list
<cyphermox> LP: #1786489  rygel
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1786489 in rygel (Ubuntu) "[MIR] rygel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1786489
<didrocks> the whole dlna stack was assigned to me last week
<cyphermox> this is desktop, I thought it had been reviewed before
<cpaelzer> Important to know this also drags in gupnp-dlna (MIR bug #1785649) and gupnp-av (MIR bug #1785629)
<ubottu> bug 1785649 in gupnp-dlna (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gupnp-dlna" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1785649
<didrocks> material for 19.04 at this stage
<ubottu> bug 1785629 in gupnp-av (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gupnp-av" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1785629
<didrocks> yep, those 3 ;)
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> oh, actually
<cyphermox> well, didrocks, best of luck with all that ;)
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: we shouldn't review MIRs we filed ourselves...
<didrocks> cyphermox: thanks, I'll need it :p TBH, I don't plan having a look before 3 weeks, once we are near release
<cyphermox> you're marked as the reporter for the pmdk bug
<cpaelzer> cpaelzer: that is why I had doko make the update after I summarized the state
<didrocks> unsure how we can mark those so that they don't came back in our meeting until $DELAY
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: ^^
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: ack.
<cyphermox> didrocks: we can think of something in a bit ;)
<didrocks> yep ;)
<cyphermox> ok, next
<cyphermox> LP: #1786201 MIR for intel-ipsec-mb
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1786201 in intel-ipsec-mb (Ubuntu Cosmic) "MIR for intel-ipsec-mb" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1786201
<cyphermox> I can take that?
<cyphermox> oh, it's already assigned to security
<cyphermox> this isn't working as well as I thought it would
<cpaelzer> on that I acted only as the reporter, and I asked jdstrand to lower the prio
<jdstrand> it is currently in the list as possible to defer to 19.04
<jdstrand> it is high for 19.04
<cyphermox> can we say, make sure we put things in Confirmed if they're assigned / otherwise reviewed
<jdstrand> it will likely be deferred
<cyphermox> and then always just look at News for this meeting?
<cpaelzer> ack
<cyphermox> jdstrand: would that work for the security team too?
<cpaelzer> if they are on security we would mark them confirmed and assigned to security then?
<didrocks> or we filter on NEW without assignee?
<didrocks> don't have strong opinions
<cyphermox> *shrugs*
<jdstrand> we don't filter on NEW vs !NEW
<cpaelzer> did "confirmed" so far carry a special meaning for you all?
<jdstrand> so that's fine with me
<cyphermox> not really
<cyphermox> neither did Triaged
<cyphermox> no assignments I have this:
<cyphermox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mir/+subscribedbugs?field.searchtext=&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.structural_subscriber=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.ha
<cyphermox> s_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on&orderby=-id&start=0
<cyphermox> ten bugs, but all slightly older
<cyphermox> actually, not even ten
<cyphermox> the percona-* one is one big chunk
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: also given your list so far you don't see "incomplete", e.g. you might miss ledmon LP: #1794219 which I invalidated today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1794219 in ledmon (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ledmon" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1794219
<cpaelzer> that is, until the reporter provides the required info
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: well incomplete would mean it's thrown back to the reporter to fix something?
<cyphermox> so do we need to reassign?
<cpaelzer> no it exactly is "thrown back to the reporter to fix something"
<cpaelzer> which is why I had chosen "no assignee + incomplete"
<cyphermox> yeah
<cpaelzer> just saying "such updates" will be missing in your list
<cpaelzer> if we check that weekly
<cyphermox> my question is, do we need to go through those right now?
<cyphermox> if we're just assigning new bugs
<cpaelzer> I think Team members can mention those if there was anything special but otherwise we can skip them
<cpaelzer> opinions?
<cyphermox> we can go through those right after?
<didrocks> cyphermox: +1
<cyphermox> first new assigns, then go through incompletes see if there's something we missed?
<doko> sounds good
<cyphermox> I'm happy to take percona-*
<didrocks> and then, if people wants to ask questions on in progress MIRs or are blocked on anything, we can tackle them
<cyphermox> yep
<cyphermox> ok, LP: ##1742711 MIR: vulkan(-loader)
<cyphermox> oops
<cyphermox> LP: #1742711 MIR: vulkan(-loader)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1742711 in vulkan (Ubuntu) "MIR: vulkan(-loader)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1742711
<cyphermox> who wants?
<cyphermox> looks desktopy
<didrocks> yep, can add
<cyphermox> I don't think the desktop team has signed up for that at all yet
<cpaelzer> FYI: the old "All open unclaimed MIR bugs" on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MIRTeam was broken anyway, I replaced it with cyphermox new link above
<cyphermox> LP: #1605337 [MIR] virtualbox
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1605337 in virtualbox (Ubuntu) "[MIR] virtualbox" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1605337
<cyphermox> my filter is not perfect
<cyphermox> carrying on ;)
<cyphermox> LP: #1274247 [MIR] Glusterfs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1274247 in tgt (Ubuntu) "[MIR] Glusterfs" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1274247
<cpaelzer> it is much better than the old broken link leading to a LP-oops
<cyphermox> I'm not sure why all the other tasks are on that bug for glusterfs
<cpaelzer> I think I do
<cyphermox> ok, it was NAKed, and nobody signed up
<cyphermox> (to maintain)
<cpaelzer> yep
<cyphermox> looks like this is probably just a triage to do
<cpaelzer> the tasks are packages that would drop Delta
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: you want to do the triage?
<cpaelzer> I will, but that essentially is setting all to Won't Fix
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> next; LP: #1108935 [MIR] websockify, spice-html5
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1108935 in websockify (Ubuntu) "[MIR] websockify, spice-html5" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1108935
<didrocks> security review a year ago, no answer since then
<didrocks> I would set it as incomplete, thoughts?
<cyphermox> agreed
<didrocks> (done)
<cyphermox> otoh it was an ACK
<didrocks> yeah, but with some changes
<cpaelzer> well it was opened and driven by chuck
<cyphermox> jamespage: is that something you guys want to have a look at?
<cpaelzer> jamespage: do you have any insight what became of this?
<cpaelzer> it did not end up on our side of the team split afaik
 * jamespage looks again
<jamespage> no its an ubuntu-openstack team thing
<cpaelzer> Quote "Rationale: Dependency for nova console access"
<cyphermox> if it's still required, what next steps are, how to schedule the engineering time to do the changes
<jamespage> I see some work in websockify based on the security team review
<cyphermox> let's reassign to the openstack team, with a note?
<jamespage> yes - done
<cyphermox> ah, cool, thanks!
<jamespage> np
<cyphermox> and finally, LP: #821883 [MIR] argyll
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 821883 in argyll (Ubuntu) "[MIR] argyll" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/821883
<cyphermox> looks like another one with changes requested
<cyphermox> didrocks: doko: you both commented on previously, do you recall what the state is?
<didrocks> cyphermox: not really, I commented on it in 2011 ;)
<didrocks> sounds like doko requested 2 changes, one is done
<cyphermox> afaik the exotic build system isn't great, but we don't  require MIRs for build-deps anymore
<doko> three years ...
<didrocks> 3 < 7 ;)
<cyphermox> I'll reassign to Till and ask if this is still required
<didrocks> yep
<doko> yeah, better before looking again
<cpaelzer> FYI the linked blueprint is tagged as done
<cpaelzer> maybe there was a different way to get this done after all
<didrocks> we have ICC color profile support for a while in ubuntu
<didrocks> which is why I wonder why Till still reverted it to NEW
<cyphermox> *shrugs*
<cyphermox> looks like I skipped over one
<cyphermox> LP: #1770146 [MIR] libayatana-appindicator
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1770146 in libayatana-appindicator (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libayatana-appindicator" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770146
<didrocks> seriously?
 * didrocks looks
<cyphermox> ah, doko commented
<didrocks> nack for desktop team to maintain it anyway: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libayatana-appindicator/+bug/1770146/comments/11
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1770146 in libayatana-appindicator (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libayatana-appindicator" [High,New]
<cyphermox> ah I see
<cyphermox> it would replace appindicator, and it looks like maybe there are changes to some revdeps
<didrocks> and we are not interested in appindicator anymore as based on GNOME which doesn't support this
<cpaelzer> still "incomplete - unless an owning team is found" right?
<didrocks> right
<cyphermox> yeah, I'm updating
<cyphermox> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cyphermox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir&field.structural_subscriber=&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1
<cyphermox> &field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.has_no_package.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on&search=Search
<cyphermox> another URL of doom
<cyphermox> any questions on open MIR bugs, or stuff that need to be shared?
<cpaelzer> maybe the last list should be ordered by last updated
<cpaelzer> On "imcomplete bugs" - as I said I marked LP: #1794219 incomplete today waiting for the reporter - being the least experienced here let me know if this was wrong
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1794219 in ledmon (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ledmon" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1794219
<cyphermox> no, looks good
<cyphermox> afaik foundations would own it (that's what I recall from discussions last week), but I'll ask to confirm that
<doko> cyphermox: could you move these URLs into the MIRTeam wiki?
<cyphermox> also, to keep the list short, we should try to see if there are bugs there that can be set Won't Fix for real
<cyphermox> doko: yup
<cyphermox> tbh it's filters I set up just now from the LP forms
<cyphermox> maybe I'll try to get something to generate such a report
<cpaelzer> still useful in the wiki to use the same every week
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> does anybody feel the need to go over each of the incompletes? I don't really ;)
<didrocks> not really (and in parallel weekly desktop meeting right now)
<cpaelzer> +1 on filtering the incomplete list, best done by whoever was involved back then
<didrocks> yep
<cpaelzer> I will kill a few server items there
<cyphermox> ack
<cyphermox> cool, moving on...
<cyphermox> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cyphermox> anything else MIR Team related that isn't the open MIRs?
<cyphermox> oh, fwiw I'll record the commands and write a short script for running the meetings ;)
<cyphermox> so it's more copy-paste next time
<didrocks> \o/
<cpaelzer> yay
<cyphermox> #action cyphermox to add bug list URLs to wiki
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox to add bug list URLs to wiki
<cyphermox> cool, then let's call this one done
<cyphermox> jamespage: you were hanging out here, anything you wanted to ask about, concerns, etc?
<jamespage> not today
<cyphermox> alright
<cyphermox> thanks all!
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 25 13:43:07 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-09-25-13.00.moin.txt
<cyphermox> oh
<cyphermox> didrocks: do you know how to add things to the fridge calendar so we don't eventually end up in some conflict in here?
<cpaelzer> thank you very much cyphermox!
<didrocks> cyphermox: I think I've requested that years ago, it was like "ping dholbach", maybe we just try with popeyâ¦
<jamespage> ta
<popey> :)
<didrocks> #victim-found :)
<cyphermox> excellent
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: didrocks: doko: jdstrand: fyi, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cyphermox/meetings/ubuntu-mir.html
<didrocks> great!
<doko> ta
<jdstrand> cyphermox: thanks!
<cyphermox> wiki page updated.
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-09-27
 * slangasek waves
<philroche> \o
<juliank> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 27 15:01:21 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<rbalint> o/
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke fginther juliank platonical aleks_bogdanov tobikoch)
<slangasek> juliank rcj philroche bdmurray platonical sil2100 aleks_bogdanov mwhudson tdaitx infinity rbalint tobikoch xnox fginther cyphermox Odd_Bloke slangasek doko
<slangasek> juliank: hi
<juliank> yay, first!
<juliank> last week:
<juliank> * sprint, meetings
<juliank> * changed livecd-rootfs to recursively mark dependencies of metapackages as automatically installed
<juliank> * released apt 1.7.0~rc1, python-apt 1.7.0~rc1, apt 1.7.0~rc2
<juliank> * rebased used autopkgtest (https://code.launchpad.net/~juliank/autopkgtest/+git/development/+merge/355422)
<juliank> this week:
<juliank> * apt 1.7.0~rc2ubuntu1
<juliank>   - fixes a nasty bug in python-apt where closing the Cache releases the dpkg lock; unbreaks ubuntu-make git
<juliank>   - fixes calculation of elapsed time to not underflow (subtracted usecs from secs instead of usecs)
<juliank> * reviewed changes in update-manager by rbalint
<juliank> * more planning for delta upgrades (repository layout, bloom filters - https://lists.debian.org/deity/2018/09/msg00039.html)
<juliank> * packagekit: fixed multi-arch .list file lookups in dpkg status database (1.1.10-1ubuntu6, https://github.com/hughsie/PackageKit/pull/279)
<juliank> * networkd-dispatcher changes to allow hooks in /etc, overriding hooks with same name in /usr/lib
<juliank> * submitted https://github.com/mvo5/unattended-upgrades/pull/140 enabled unattended-upgrades on devel 21 days prior to release, needs a follow up to (re)add test cases
<juliank> plans for tomorrow:
<juliank> * frontend locking SRUs
<juliank> * test cases for unattended-upgrades change
<juliank> (done)
<juliank> rcj:
<rcj> * moving from bzr to git for build recipes
<rcj> * fixed cosmic seed to include lxd in the server seed
<rcj> * cloud image development work
<rcj> (done)
<philroche> * Team sprint in Brussels
<philroche> * On leave for four days
<philroche> * Public cloud image customisations
<philroche> * Cloud image build system vanguard
<philroche> (done)
<philroche> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> Team sprint in Brussels and then some holiday
<bdmurray> â done
<platonical> Team sprint
<platonical> work on partner image libraries
<platonical> done
<platonical> sil2100:
<aleks_bogdanov> i guess sil2100 is not around
<aleks_bogdanov> * Working on adding minimal simplestreams to cloud_images kpi metrics
<aleks_bogdanov> * Converting cloud_images metrics from Prometheus to InfluxDB
<aleks_bogdanov> * Development jenkins upgrade testing
<aleks_bogdanov> (done)
<aleks_bogdanov> mwhudson:
<tdaitx> mwhudson timezone does not help him joining this meeting, so I will go
<tdaitx> * short weeks: working 6h/day
<tdaitx> * sprint
<tdaitx> * initramfs-tools fixes (LP: #1791959, LP: #1667512, LP: #1793290):
<tdaitx>   - remove orphaned old-dkms files from /boot (cosmic done, xenial sru-verified, and bionic sru needs a small fix)
<tdaitx>   - limit sync to initramfs /boot filesystem (xenial and bionic verified)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1791959 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] remove orphaned initrd old-dkms files in /boot" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1791959
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1667512 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] update-initramfs should sync only the filesystem containing the initramfs image" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1667512
<tdaitx>   - avoid calling depmod if modules directory does not exist (cosmic merge proposed)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1793290 in linux-kvm (Ubuntu) "Purging the custom kernel does not remove initramfs" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1793290
<tdaitx> * checked and tested that libjna was working as expected, jenkins package (3rd party) at fault LP: #1662813
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1662813 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "Libjna-jni uses wrong path on package installation on s390x" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1662813
<tdaitx> * implemented key export for mokx, pk, kek, db and dbx keys in mokutil together with cyphermox (tks!)
<tdaitx>   - pull request at https://github.com/lcp/mokutil/pull/18
<tdaitx> * merge gradle, groovy, gradle-debian-helper, maven-compiler-plugin (LP: #1794122, LP: #1794129, LP: #1794135, LP: #1794132)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1794122 in gradle-debian-helper (Ubuntu) "Please merge gradle-debian-helper 2.0.1 from Debian" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1794122
<tdaitx> Other:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1794129 in gradle (Ubuntu) "Please merge gradle 4.4-2 from Debian" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1794129
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1794135 in groovy (Ubuntu) "Please merge groovy 2.4.15-3 from Debian" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1794135
<tdaitx> * (re) learned a bit of git-ubuntu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1794132 in maven-compiler-plugin (Ubuntu) "Please merge maven-compiler-plugin 3.8.0-1 from Debian" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1794132
<tdaitx> (done)
<infinity>  * Working on releasing Cosmic Beta this week
<infinity>  * Investigated explosion of the base system, narrowing it down to changes in popcon (fixed) and pygobject (in progress)
<infinity>  * Currently poking at a germinate (near) infinite recursion issue
<infinity>  * Sprinty Sprint Sprint
<infinity> (done)
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * generic bzr -> git conversion script to migrate many launchpad repos
<rbalint> * unattended-upgrades fixes waiting to be released
<rbalint> * update-manager fixes
<rbalint> * update gce-compute-image-packages
<rbalint> (done)
<tobikoch_> * Update launchpad-buildd LXD backend to work on Bionic (MP#354331)
<tobikoch_> * Work on the test framework
<tobikoch_> * Cloud stuff
<tobikoch_> (done)
<tobikoch_> xnox:
<xnox> finished up rebuilding things for openssl1.1.1 tls1.3
<xnox> only python2.7 is left... filed upstream issue
<xnox> uploaded systemd with env fixes
<xnox> working with jfh on outstanding zkey things
<xnox> drafting subiquity roadmap for 19.04
<xnox> checked the apt spec
<xnox> done.
<fginther> * Sprint activities
<fginther> * SRU testing for LP: #1792466
<fginther> * Small bits of partner work
<fginther> â done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792466 in gce-compute-image-packages (Ubuntu Bionic) " Update google compute-image-packages to 20180905" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792466
<cyphermox> - [HIGHLIGHT] netplan 0.40 + SRU to bionic (still in unapproved)
<cyphermox> - reviewed list of merges on MoM for potential merges needed post-ff
<cyphermox> - debugging signed bootloaders for uefi on armhf (LP: #1788940)
<cyphermox> - SRU for grub2 reloc fixes to bionic (LP: #1792575)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1788940 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "armhf cloud image fails to boot kernel" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1788940
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792575 in shim (Ubuntu Bionic) "Boot failure with efi shims from 20180913.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792575
<cyphermox> - first MIR team meeting (tuesdays 13:00 UTC)
<cyphermox> - picking up new shim reviews (opsi, DriveLock)
<cyphermox> - discussed EFI GetVariable/SetVariable behavior for platforms with no variable store
<cyphermox> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> * Engineering sprint in Brussels last week
<Odd_Bloke> * Continuing work on reworking our GKE image publication (between catching up on emails, code review and sleep)
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> vorlangasek:
<Odd_Bloke> slangasek:
<Odd_Bloke> (Fix your highlighting.)
<infinity> slangalon?
<xnox> ivan ivanovich!
<slangasek>  * sprint
<slangasek>  * swap day
<slangasek>  * sprint load
<slangasek>  * SecureBoot discussions
<slangasek>  * SRU sponsorships
<slangasek>  * SRU processing
<slangasek>  * beta queue processing
<slangasek> (done)
<doko> - sprint last week
<doko> - Python OpenSSL related updates, 3.6.7 and 3.7.1 release candidates
<doko> - synced some more Java packages
<doko> - general archive work, MIR, ...
<doko> (done)
<doko> ohh, and we now have weekly MIR meetings
<gaughen> vorlangasek
 * mdeslaur chuckles
<slangasek> cyphermox: "platforms with no variable store" hnghnhghngh
<cyphermox> slangasek: yes, I know
<cyphermox> it's... complicated
<slangasek> questions on status?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> jibel reported bug 1793671 the other day
<ubottu> bug 1793671 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Proprietary drivers are installed locally and not on the target system" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1793671
<bdmurray> I've not yet tested it though
<slangasek> .... huh
<slangasek> bdmurray: taking onto backlog
<bdmurray> then bug 1789028 seems minor but also worth fixing
<ubottu> bug 1789028 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager install not clickable if there are only packages to remove" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1789028
<rbalint> i just fixed that
<rbalint> it is a dup
<bdmurray> rbalint: okay, cool
<gaughen> bdmurray, on the ubiquity bug - do we need to fix this before release?
<bdmurray> gaughen: yeah
<gaughen> slangasek, I think we should put it in the prioritized queue then towards the top
<gaughen> so it gets picked up next iteration, unless that's too late
<gaughen> I fear that's too late.
<slangasek> gaughen: yes, moving to prioritized
<gaughen> slangasek, given we're 3 weeks from release, can it wait?
<slangasek> gaughen: if you want to get someone to commit to it right now
<cyphermox> fwiw I think there's a misunderstanding
<cyphermox> prepare runs ubuntu-drivers, but to get a list of stuff to install
<cyphermox> (at least, that's what it was doing last I looked)
<gaughen> bdmurray, infinity either of you have capacity to pick up the ubiquity bug?
<cyphermox> then later it's supposed to queue those to install on the rootfs, once there's one
<infinity> cyphermox: Hrm?
<bdmurray> gaughen: I'm not sure yet, I'll know by the beta stand up
<infinity> cyphermox: I assume jibel knows to wait until it's done to see if it happened. :P
<gaughen> bdmurray, we didn't sign you up for much :-)
<cyphermox> infinity: I know
<cyphermox> infinity: I assume his tests are good too, but I'm surprised
<gaughen> bdmurray, k we'll take the bug to beta standup
<cyphermox> ubuntu-drivers /was/ running at the end of prepare, on purpose.
<slangasek> ok, so we have a plan for that bug
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?
<bdmurray> slangasek: nope
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> everyone: anything else?
<infinity> I dreamt of doughnuts and now I want some.
 * xnox recalls there were a subtype of plugins to run in the installed system as root... to do things like installing drivers in target. oh well.
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 27 15:34:10 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-09-27-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-09-23
<slashd> o/
<rbasak> o/
<slashd> rbasak, seems like only you and I are there, maybe other used their swap days for Paris
<slashd> rbasak, anything to discuss ? seems we won't met the quorum today
<rbasak> If we don't get quorum we can defer I guess.
<rbasak> I've started giving it ten minutes before calling it.
<slashd> 10 minutes sound reasonnable
<cyphermox> o/
<cyphermox> sorry, was in a call
<rbasak> I'm still here, but we do need another.
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> I think it's just a fail EQUORUM this time
<slashd> let's call it a day then
<rbasak> Agreed
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-09-26
<waveform> o/
<xnox> am i running this?
<xnox> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 26 15:02:18 2019 UTC.  The chair is xnox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<xnox> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<xnox> xnox mwhudson doko juliank waveform cyphermox sil2100 vorlon infinity bdmurray tdaitx rbalint
<xnox> * back from All Systems Go conference on Monday
<xnox> * Tuesday was swap day
<xnox> * Sent in All Systems Go report
<xnox> * Expenses / insurance claims
<xnox> * TODO Plumbers conference notes
<xnox> * Debugging with frank linux v5.3 failing to online DASD drives under z/VM only
<xnox>   (escalated to IBM)
<xnox> * Trying to fix grub-installer with all-in-one lvm install and failing
<xnox>   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/1838525
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1838525 in grub-installer (Ubuntu) "LVM setup fails to install grub on virtio storage" [Critical,Triaged]
<xnox>   Needs to be prioritised. Not sure if we are missing things in grub,
<xnox>   grub-installer, lvm, udev, etc.
<xnox>   (blocking classic server iso ci)
<xnox> * Drew UC20 signatures & measurement flow, sent to vorlon for review
<xnox> * Trolling mwhudson over subiquity netboot.
<xnox> done
<xnox> mwhudson:  not it
<xnox> doko:  ?
 * juliank is not ready
<xnox> waveform:
<waveform> * u-boot migration scripts done, testing nearly complete (CMs, Pi2 to go)
<waveform> * split boot configuration of new pi images submitted for PR (https://github.com/snapcore/pi3-gadget/pull/29)
<waveform> * worked on console utility for updating pi boot configuration
<waveform> (done)
<xnox> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> NM netplan plugin
<xnox> how is it? =)
<cyphermox> shim testing
<cyphermox> shim autopkgtests
<cyphermox> (done)
<xnox> sil is not here
<xnox> vorlon:
<vorlon>  * short week, was off Tuesday for sprint travel swap
<vorlon>  * sprinted
<vorlon>  * proposed migration
<vorlon>  * NBS cleanup
<vorlon>  * freeze queue review
<vorlon> (done)
<xnox> yeah
<xnox> infinity
<xnox> not in the channel?!
<xnox> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> devised instructions for updating daisy no-pycassa branch in prod RT 121053
<bdmurray> defeated a Traceback with daisy no-pycassa branch in r904
<doko> sorry, swap days, and still analyzing the list of lto build failures
<bdmurray> deleted (well requested) evan account from the ET cassandra database
<bdmurray> dug into an issue with the phased-updater and halted phasing
<bdmurray> determined that bug 1832651 is fixed in Eoan
<bdmurray> described results of my upgrade testing in a couple of bugs
<bdmurray> documented issues in an email with other systemd timers
<bdmurray> discussed configuration of an apport hook for the OEM team
<ubottu> bug 1832651 in systemd (Ubuntu Eoan) "jackdbus fails to start: cannot allocate memory" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1832651
<xnox> doko:  ack, thanks.
<bdmurray> delighted dudes with my status report
<bdmurray> dreamt of a day when I won't be jet lagged
<bdmurray> â done
<tdaitx> * apport & whoopsie security fixes
<tdaitx>   - waiting for review from security team
<tdaitx> * openjdk 8 & 11 autopkgtests
<tdaitx>   - improved test results
<tdaitx>   - fixing autopkgtest scripts for s390x zero vm
<tdaitx>   - ongoing testing on openjdk-8 builds
<tdaitx>   - copying changes to openjdk-11
<tdaitx>   - planning to split tests to better use autopkgtest's "flaky" flag
<tdaitx> * blocked openjdk-8 from migrating to release eoan with the last security update instead of a release candidate version
<tdaitx>   - too late for openjdk-11, it already migrated to the RC version
<tdaitx> (done)
 * juliank is ready now
<bdmurray> rbalint is out
<xnox> rbalint:  is out, so i think juliank now
<juliank> * Expenses
<juliank> * Uploaded APT 1.8.4 SRU to disco (fake-ish sync from unstable)
<juliank> * Committed fix for a crash in python-apt
<juliank> * Looking at travel stuff
<juliank> * Need to play more with autopkgtest-cloud staging
<juliank> (done)
<xnox> awesome
<xnox> #topic Release incoming bugs (eoan)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (eoan)
<xnox> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> so you mentioned bug 1838525 already
<ubottu> bug 1838525 in grub-installer (Ubuntu) "LVM setup fails to install grub on virtio storage" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838525
<bdmurray> card and queue jump seems appropriate
<xnox> who wants to take it?
<cyphermox> 1845466 I'm already on it (uploaded)
<bdmurray> I'll card that one for you cyphermox
<bdmurray> xnox: Are you saying "not it"?
<xnox> bdmurray:  i'm not it
<bdmurray> cyphermox: can you take it then?
<xnox> we are out of capacity, and we will punt this back to server team.... sorry cpaelzer paride etc.
<bdmurray> bug 1845190
<ubottu> bug 1845190 in binutils (Ubuntu) "binutils nm wrong output format breaks i386 nm work" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1845190
<bdmurray> doko are you really working on this?
<bdmurray> We'll pass on fixing this for Eoan
<xnox> bdmurray:  what's next? =)
<bdmurray> bug 1822672
<ubottu> bug 1822672 in popularity-contest (Ubuntu) "popularity-contest is broken due to a bad merge with debian" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1822672
<bdmurray> Its an easy fix and tsimonq2 has not been responsive
<vorlon> that one's medium; did you skip the high?
<vorlon> LP: #1845485
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1845485 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Remove gnome-system-monitor from deb to snap transition" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1845485
<bdmurray> right that just came in this morning
<bdmurray> its a one line fix
<gaughen> bdmurray, what's the impact if we leave popularity-contest broken?
<gaughen> bdmurray, I think we should leave it, I'm not aware of the data being used.
<bdmurray> popularity-contest has also been broken since bionic
<bdmurray> I'll take the u-r-u one and upload the fix.
<bdmurray> bug 1779767 has no importance
<ubottu> bug 1779767 in cron (Ubuntu) "Default cron PATH does not include /snap/bin" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1779767
<bdmurray> Does medium seem right for importance?
<tsimonq2> bdmurray: I've been dealing with a healthy dose of Real Life lately. I don't have plans to fix that bug at the moment, apologies.
<xnox> tsimonq2:  *hugs* no worries
<tsimonq2> debian-private has a small desc if any DDs are curious
<tsimonq2> xnox: *hugs* thanks
<xnox> #topic Release incoming bugs (bionic)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (bionic)
<xnox> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> There is nothing pressing there.
<xnox> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<xnox> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> I tested bug 1611256 the other day and think it is fixed with the new dpkg.
<ubottu> bug 1611256 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "X to Y upgrade fails with gconf2 depends on python3:any; however: Package python3 is not configured yet." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611256
<xnox> nothing to do
<xnox> #topic Chair selection for next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Chair selection for next meeting
<xnox> I pick gaughen
<xnox> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<xnox> i pick doko
<gaughen> xnox, I'm not available next week, but can do the week after
<xnox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 26 15:28:50 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-09-26-15.02.moin.txt
<xnox> doko:  your audio dropped
<xnox> doko:  we hear nothing
<xnox> doko:  you dropped
