#ubuntu-learning 2010-03-15
<pleia2> sent a mail to the list - but to remind everyone here too our meeting is in a little over 3 hours over in #ubuntu-meeting
<doctormo> pleia2: 6pm EST right?
<pleia2> doctormo: 7
<pleia2> http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=3&day=15&year=2010&hour=23&min=0&sec=0&p1=0
<pleia2> ~2 hrs from now
<pleia2> wait, time confuses me
<pleia2> yeah
<Pendulum> yes 2 hours from now
<Pendulum> 7PM EST
<doctormo> Pendulum, pleia2: thanks
 * pleia2 fixes her eastern time clock
<pleia2> darn thing was statically set to EST rather than New York time
<doctormo> pleia2: Interesting, so EST is still 13:53, but NY time is not EST and is 14:53 ?
<pleia2> NY time is EDT now
<pleia2> when you set the timezone based on location it follows DST properly
<doctormo> aight
<pleia2> Vantrax, bodhi_zazen will you guys be around for the meeting in 1 hr, 20 min?
<bodhi_zazen> I will try
<pleia2> :)
<Vantrax> thats why im here
 * Vantrax must attend more meetings
<pleia2> yay!
<bodhi_zazen> are we meeting in this channel ?
<cprofitt> not sure bodhi_zazen
<pleia2> #ubuntu-meeting
<cprofitt> pleia2: are you going to run the meeting?
<pleia2> sure
<pleia2> unless anyone objects or prefers to lead it
<cprofitt> I think it proper for you to do so
<ZachK_> What meeting?
<doctormo> ZachK_: Ubuntu Learning meeting
<ZachK_> Ah...shall I sit in?
<doctormo> sure
<pleia2> nigelb: you about?
<nigelb> sorry folks for being late, just waking up
<doctormo> If anyone is an irc mod, can we update the topic?
<nigelb> doctormo: I think you can
<pleia2> ah, what should we say?
#ubuntu-learning 2010-03-16
<doctormo> The Ubuntu Learning Umbrella Community | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<doctormo> (just my thoughts)
<pleia2> seems reasonable
* pleia2 changed the topic of #ubuntu-learning to: The Ubuntu Learning Umbrella Community | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning | Support in #ubuntu
<pleia2> ok, we'll define it more later
<doctormo> Yes :-)
<pleia2> I need to run out for a LUG meeting (this lug is deploying ubuntu in schools! wicked! must get in on this!)
 * pleia2 goes to catch bus
<doctormo> pleia2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Materials thoughts?
<nigelb> heya dinda
<dinda> howdy nigelb
<nigelb> dinda: uclp board got disolved
<nigelb> we're splitting off into 3 projects :)
<dinda> nigelb: really? is that good or bad?
<nigelb> dinda: I'm not sure about good and bad
<dinda> was in another meeting last night so missed the meeting
<nigelb> it was in last night's meeting
<nigelb> but know, each form of education is its own project, so one need not wait for the other
<nigelb> s/know/now
<nigelb> I manage to type perfect spelling even on typo, gah
<dinda> :)
<dinda> are the meeting logs up yet?
<nigelb> its on irclogs
<nigelb> we've always been bad on putting it up on the wiki
<dinda> so what is each project doing?
<nigelb> one's focusing on asynchronous learning, one on learning material, and one on IRC
<doctormo> dinda: I can explain
<nigelb> aha, the expert's here
<doctormo> nigelb: So if you want, I'd like for you to be involved in Ubuntu Learning Materials and continue with that.
<nigelb> doctormo: I'll probably be part of at least 2
<nigelb> since I'm anyway doing something for the materials and on the classroom team
<nigelb> moodle - not my cup of tea yet
<doctormo> dinda: So the Ubuntu Learning group will be more of a social umbrella for our learning projects, we still want to share a great deal between each project, but each aims to do something different and it was hurting us trying to bind them together.
<doctormo> dinda: There is Ubuntu Learning Materials (course writing) which I lead, there is the Ubuntu Classroom and Teaching which pleia2 will lead, it focuses on teaching the community skills with the materials, and thent here is Ubuntu Educators which hopes to take various materials and focus them for traditional educational authority use.
<ywarnier> nigelb: I'm the lead dev of Dokeos/Chamilo, and I'm sticking around too (just in case your opinion on Moodle would generalize)
<nigelb> ywarnier: I'm just lost with the interface as a teacher, as a student I love it
<ywarnier> nigelb: the teacher interface problems are what we're fighting with Chamilo
<ywarnier> (and it's what most people have problems with)
<nigelb> ywarnier: I dont see it as a problem actually, more like a higher learning curve
<nigelb> just takes time and I'm a bit spread thin now :)
<ywarnier> nigelb: i'm just saying
<nigelb> I know.  Someday, I'll learn the thing :)
<dinda> doctormo: sorry, system had to be restarted - can you repeat on new sturcture?
<nigelb> <doctormo> dinda: So the Ubuntu Learning group will be more of a social umbrella for our learning projects, we still want to share a great deal between each project, but each aims to do something different and it was hurting us trying to bind them together.
<nigelb> <doctormo> dinda: There is Ubuntu Learning Materials (course writing) which I lead, there is the Ubuntu Classroom and Teaching which pleia2 will lead, it focuses on teaching the community skills with the materials, and thent here is Ubuntu Educators which hopes to take various materials and focus them for traditional educational authority use.
<dinda> nigelb: thanks
<doctormo> dinda: Does that make sense
<nigelb> no problem :)
<dinda> doctormo: yes
<dinda> doctormo: will the Ubuntu Manual project join under the learning materials area?
<doctormo> dinda: It would make sense
<doctormo> dinda: But that's really something for Ben and me to go through since it's not totally appropriate for us to just land grab his project.
<dinda> doctormo: yes, of course, was just thinking aloud they might get more support with your group than they did in the doc team
<doctormo> I forsee a result where a manual is one target outcome from a set of source materials.
<nigelb> doctormo: got some time?
<doctormo> nigelb: Yes
<cprofitt> dinda: are you here?
<dinda> cprofitt: yip, checking in here
<cprofitt> pleia2: you here?
<cprofitt> doctormo: dinda: akgraner: if you are here you may also be able to answer the question...
<akgraner> cprofitt, which question ?
<cprofitt> for a mailing list -- why choose LP vs. Ubuntu?
<cprofitt> I am getting interest in the new team formed last night...
<cprofitt> and think a mailing list will help... but not sure why I should choose one over the other.
<pleia2> honestly I'm inclined to just have us all keep using ubuntu-learning
<pleia2> it's not high traffic, we can ignore threads we aren't interested in, and it allows us to keep up with progress of each other :)
<pleia2> (just like this channel)
<cprofitt> pleia2: I would prefer to have one for the project ... we might also encourage them to join the other
<pleia2> cprofitt: you can't join an lp list unless you are part of the team
<pleia2> so I'd have to join and be accepted on the team just to keep up with moodle stuff
<cprofitt> but I do not want to have educators become frightened by higher level coding talk
 * cprofitt nods
<cprofitt> and Ubuntu lists do not require that
<pleia2> but ubuntu lists are harder to get
<cprofitt> are the LP lists easier to maintain?
<pleia2> I doubt they'll give us one for every sub project
<cprofitt> what parameters are there for ubuntu lists?
<pleia2> lp lists are harder to maintain
<pleia2> you need to be a reasonably recognised project
<cprofitt> define reasonably recognized
<pleia2> there isn't a definition
<cprofitt> who says yes/no?
<pleia2> every time I've done it the CC had to give the green light
<pleia2> but I don't know how universal that is
<cprofitt> so a big bit of red tape
<pleia2> yep
<cprofitt> so LP is easier to start...
<cprofitt> Ubuntu is easier to join/maintain - but is at the discretion of the CC
<pleia2> easier to start, but harder for people to read, harder to maintain
<cprofitt> and thus I would have to wait for a CC meeting
<pleia2> and have a project built up to show the CC so they grant a list
<pleia2> there might be other ways to get a list, could try just submitting a ticket to RT
 * pleia2 shrugs
<cprofitt> so easier to do LP for now... or a third party
<pleia2> yeah, but that shuts all of us out, which is sad
<cprofitt> why would it shut you out?
<pleia2> because I am not on the team
<cprofitt> A third party would not do that though
<pleia2> and probably won't be, since I just want to follow along, I don't have time to contribute now
<cprofitt> I may talk to the Edubuntu people too...
<cprofitt> since this project fits well with their mission
<pleia2> in spite of having different segment leaders, I'd really rather we keep *trying* to work together instead of creating these silos
<cprofitt> We have already grown by 5 people... and I would like the ability to send the group a message.
<cprofitt> I do not want to silo to keep others out
<pleia2> we want to make it easy to collaborate, not harder
<cprofitt> I want to keep 'tech' stuff away from the educators, some of whom might get spooked by tech talk
<pleia2> ok
<cprofitt> Certainly nothing prevents a person from joining the team....
<pleia2> oh, it's an open team?
<cprofitt> but I will have to consider all the options...
<cprofitt> yes -- the team is open
<pleia2> ok
<cprofitt> I see no reason to close it
<cprofitt> I do not mind people 'following' and not contributing
<cprofitt> I think it exposes them... and they might contribute
<cprofitt> membership in this case is not an 'award'
<pleia2> ok, good
<cprofitt> so for now... it would be ok to have an LP mailing list...
<cprofitt> and then migrate to an Ubuntu?
<pleia2> probably
<cprofitt> I think I would prefer to do Ubuntu, but do not want to get hung up red tape
<pleia2> you can submit a ticket and try
<cprofitt> ticket -- where do those get submitted?
<pleia2> they get submitted to the pool of administrative folks handling things, and then filtered to the appropriate teams who can set things up
<cprofitt> I am not sure how to submit them...
<pleia2> I'm not sure precisely who sets up the mailing lists
<pleia2> rt@ubuntu.com
<pleia2> they might even be able to say something like "no, get permission from $so-and-so"
<cprofitt> k
<cprofitt> well... I sent the request...
<cprofitt> if they say no -- I will go with an LP list or just use the NING group.
<dinda> cprofitt: there is an ubuntu-educators list that is just for educators
<dinda> cprofitt: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-education
<dinda> cprofitt: I'd be happy to add you as an admin on that list
<cprofitt> dinda: that would be fantastic
<doctormo> cprofitt: I think your right about the educators, best to keep a list of teachers away from the technical stuff.
<doctormo> cprofitt: I'm sure you and the leaders of the educators team will keep in with the general learning mailing list, so there's no issue I can see.
<cprofitt> that is how it works in my world... I talk tech and they get nervous or glaze over
<cprofitt> That would be my intention
<cprofitt> and its an open team so you can always join
<cprofitt> but dinda is working on getting me admin access to an existing list
<doctormo> cprofitt: That's great, so you'll adopt an existing resource?
<cprofitt> it looks like that is the plan
<pleia2> :)
<cprofitt> I attended an online webinar about FOSS in eduation and got a lot of traction with the folks there
<doctormo> cprofitt: Make sure to send a message out to the learning list inviting educators over.
<cprofitt> so I hope we can really get the ball rolling
<cprofitt> I will once things are set doctormo
<pleia2> doctormo: want to drop a note to the list announcing the change?
<pleia2> then we can all follow-up with "here's the link to our stuff"
<cprofitt> wait until we have the list set though
 * pleia2 was going to, but really should be working
<cprofitt> well... I just wnat to make sure we are all set before announcing it
<cprofitt> I would hope in the next day or so
<cprofitt> I edited the wiki already -- with links to the sites etc
<pleia2> cprofitt: I just mean a summary of the meeting
<pleia2> we need to tell people what we discused :)
<cprofitt> oh -- yeah that would be fine
<cprofitt> I thought you were talking about the mailing list
<cprofitt> I have to pack up now... get home and start working on some of the other items...
<cprofitt> try to advertise our Moodle courses etc...
<pleia2> later cprofitt
<cprofitt> talk to you guys later
<doctormo> cprofitt: aight,
<doctormo> pleia2: Note dropped
<pleia2> doctormo: perfect, thank you!
<doctormo> np
<IdleOne> http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/03/16/ubuntu-global-jam-time-to-rock-the-house/
<Vantrax> pleia2 can you join #ubuntu-educators
#ubuntu-learning 2010-03-17
<cprofitt> Pendulum: are you here?
<Pendulum> cprofitt: what's up?
<cprofitt> can you join #ubuntu-us-ny we are discussing membership formally in a meeting
<cprofitt> I might like you to speak to the members
<cprofitt> we may not need it... but we will see
<Pendulum> done. poke me here or PM me at any point you definitely want me to say something
<cprofitt> l
<cprofitt> k
<Pendulum> (I'm kinda 1/2 asleep so won't necessarily notice otherwise)
#ubuntu-learning 2010-03-18
<doctormo> pleia2: today!
<doctormo> BiosElement: Hello
<BiosElement> Hey there doctormo
<doctormo> how are things going?
<pleia2> doctormo: at a conference today
<doctormo> pleia2: Hope everything is going well
<pleia2> it is :) just busy
#ubuntu-learning 2010-03-19
<pleia2> doctormo: have you put much thought into course distribution?
<pleia2> a lot of people in locos and places won't want to be building pdfs from bzr
<pleia2> and until now I've tended to just link folks to your blog entries on certain subjects, and we've linked to those in the wiki
<pleia2> of course this isn't sustainable, etc
#ubuntu-learning 2010-03-20
<doctormo> pleia2: I figured we'd just have a simple html site with a bunch of downloads. Something simple that's easy to script.
<pleia2> doctormo: sounds good - maybe host on your people.ubuntu.com page?
<doctormo> sure
<doctormo> Or a domain
<doctormo> But it'd be raw and basic
<pleia2> I have loads of hosting space if we need, I wouldn't object to a domain for the project
<doctormo> great~!
<pleia2> doctormo: heh, ubuntu-learning.org was just registered recently :\
<pleia2> looks like she bought .com/.org
<pleia2> 11 days ago
<pleia2> but maybe we don't want that anyway :)
<pleia2> we can be more clever
<macfriendly> i have installed ubunutu onto my dell mini 10v - 9.10 for netbooks
<macfriendly> how do i get rid of the desktop launcher - its a bit horrid
<macfriendly> everything else is great
<macfriendly> is there not a pull down menu instead or a 'dock' or task bar type thing i can use?
<IdleOne> macfriendly: you will have better luck asking in #ubuntu
<IdleOne> but I believe you can install ubuntu-desktop
<macfriendly> ok thanks - i did list but thought this was more relevant place 2 be sorry
<IdleOne> no problem :) and this is a very relevant place to be but not exactly for support related questions
<macfriendly> the 'launcher' reminds me of macintosh performa running system 7.5 .....lol
<doctormo> pleia2: she?
<pleia2> doctormo: the registrant of the domain, some woman in oregon
<pleia2> I mean, we could just go with ubuntulearningmaterials.org or something
<pleia2> or uclpmaterials.org or ...
<doctormo> pleia2: Or just be really cool and out of the box with a public facing name.
<pleia2> yeah, being clever is cool too :)
<doctormo> I vote for ubuntu-owl.com -> it knows all.
<pleia2> I like it!
<IdleOne> why not ask the person who owns ubuntu-learning.com if she would be willing to part with it for a good cause ?
<pleia2> IdleOne: to be fair, we aren't the whole ubuntu-learning project, just the materials and promotions part
<IdleOne> although I kinda like the idea of a Linux Owl
<pleia2> it wouldn't really be fair to the moodle end of the project
<doctormo> IdleOne: I like the idea of Linux Owl, make it less Ubuntu specific and friendly to others, but I don't like "Linux"
<IdleOne> ok well like the penguin is named Tux
<IdleOne> the Owl needs a learning/teaching centric name
 * IdleOne turns on the gears
<IdleOne> hmmm
<IdleOne> Leanerd :)
<IdleOne> ok maybe not
<doctormo> hard to spell
<doctormo> foss-owl ?
<IdleOne> nahh
<IdleOne> something cleaver and cute
<IdleOne> clever?
<IdleOne> yeah clever
<IdleOne> sic
<pleia2> yeah, no cleavers near the owl please
<IdleOne> hahaha
 * pleia2 ponders
<pleia2> foss is my preferred abbreviation, as tempting as oss-owl is
<doctormo> pleia2: Where's the freedom in that ;-)
<IdleOne> pleia2: say oss-owl out loud a couple times
<pleia2> doctormo: indeed :)
<pleia2> IdleOne: haha
<IdleOne> ok you got it :)
<doctormo> Why not just call it f-owl ?
<doctormo> Freedom Owl ;-P
<IdleOne> F-Owl is an awesome name
<pleia2> because that sounds like we're flipping off the owl
<IdleOne> err yeah
<pleia2> that said, freedomowl is available
<pleia2> or freedom-owl
<pleia2> typing it a lot makes me think "owl" is a very strange word
<IdleOne> ubuntu-owl.org is a great name for the domain
<doctormo> OK looks like we're going with ubuntu-owl.org
<IdleOne> I was thinking more as an official mascot for the learning project, the Owl needs a name
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> or .com? or both?
<IdleOne> both
<doctormo> pleia2: If you can afford
<IdleOne> redirect .com to .org
<pleia2> k, we'll use .org and I'll snap up .com too so we have it (.coms are cheap)
<IdleOne> oh pleia2 is flipping this bill
<IdleOne> well then yeah it is up to you pleia2
<IdleOne> I am seeing a course for elementary aged kids and videos with the Owl giving lessons in class rooms :)
<IdleOne> My daughter would love that and pay attention
<IdleOne> kids click on the cute little owl and learn ubuntu/linux/whatever
 * IdleOne needs to win the lottery 
<doctormo> IdleOne: No you don't, you need the rich in society to all become poor.
<doctormo> :-P
<IdleOne> doctormo: we need Canonical to start sponsoring this project with some real funds.
<IdleOne> Ubuntu learning in schools
<IdleOne> imagine the work you could get done if you had more time
<IdleOne> pleia2 also :)
<pleia2> we need to have a good project before we ask for money :)
<doctormo> IdleOne: Plus currently thinking isn't centered around making freely accessable education.
<IdleOne> pleia2: I understand that but the benefits of bank rolling this project outweigh the cost
<IdleOne> it could be so much bigger
<doctormo> IdleOne: It could, but what we have to deal with is a cultural problem, traditional educational materials people believe in making propritary, locked down materials.
<doctormo> A product
<doctormo> Not a value add loss leader which helps your main business.
<doctormo> (which is certainly how Microsoft sees educational materials atm, they're hurting us through offering tons of online courses)
<IdleOne> learning is not a business, least it shouldn't be
<IdleOne> I don't think that Canonical should invest in this to make money but to give back more. One day the kids who learned about Ubuntu at school, could be the teachers giving the same classes to other kids
<IdleOne> that is Ubuntu!
 * IdleOne is an idealist
<doctormo> IdleOne: Yes, but people are people and some are stuck in their ways.
<pleia2> and canonical's model is to give certifications and do professional training - which there is a market for
<pleia2> while it would be nice for them to do friendly teaching things, they barely have the resources for their pro training
<pleia2> I guess it would be argued that mark should open his pocket more, but there are dozens of projects that could use that line (and do)
<doctormo> pleia2: Actually it would be nice if the resources spent on making closed materials were opened up, just so that cost burden could be lifted from canonical.
<doctormo> atm they're trying to write everythign themselves.
 * pleia2 nods
<IdleOne> I won't pretend to understand the whole financial aspect and I wouldn't presume to say Mark needs to open his wallet more. Just think that there is so many cool things that could be done with this project and that money would attract more people to work on it
<pleia2> ok guys, we have ubuntu-owl.org configured
<IdleOne> \o/
#ubuntu-learning 2014-03-13
<loonix103> hello?
