#ubuntu-touch 2012-04-16
<Satoris> Anyone else have 4 finger swipe for the dash broken in Unity-2D?
<bregma> I'm assuming touchpad?
<Satoris> Magic trackpad.
<Satoris> s/dash/panel/
<Satoris> I get 4 finger touch events through XInput.
<Satoris> Unity-2D's bug list seems to indicate that they are reworking 4 finger swipe gesture code as we speak.
<tvoss> migrating utouch-jobs to production jenkins, grail, frame and geis are done, evemu to go
<bregma> where is the production jenkins located?
<cnd> jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com?
<Satoris> Bug filing, QA script tuning, randomage.
<cnd> I'm still trying to dig out of a ton of X patches that I'm working on for ubuntu and upstream
<cnd> it seems that I still don't have touchscreens working quite right
<tvoss> cnd, bregma: Results from production jenkins are exported to the public instance
<dandrader> my stand-up report: Improving port of unity code to geis v2 API. Making it use regular recognizer (no atomic gestures) and accept()/reject() gestures.
<Satoris> cnd: where did you get the sortable multi column kernel report HTML? The code in Arsenal only prints bug id, title and series.
<bregma> I'm beavering away on the grail config stuff
<cnd> Satoris, I don't know where the code lives, I just noticed it on qa.ubuntu.com
<cnd> Satoris, I suggest asking bjf in #ubuntu-kernel
<cnd> tvoss, when I try to get to the code coverage, jenkins can't find the source code
<cnd> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/ps-utouch-grail-daily-amd64/1/cobertura/_home_ubuntu_jenkins_workspace_ps_utouch_grail_daily_amd64_pbuilder_setup_work_trunk_src_v3/atomic_recognizer_cpp/
<tvoss> cnd,
<cnd> do you know why that would be?
<tvoss> I would guess that the job-publisher plugin does not take into account that it would need to copy the overall source code to provide that annotated view
<bregma> hey -- do we need to have a call today (in 10 minutes)?
<cnd> bregma, I assume so
<cnd> but olli's not online...
<Satoris> He's gone until wednesday.
<bregma> he's not physically available
<cnd> oh ok
<cnd> well, then I guess not
<cnd> Satoris, tvoss, bregma, dandrader: have you all done peer reviews and the review of olli?
<cnd> dandrader, I dunno if you had to do it
<tvoss> cnd, ack
<Satoris> What is the "review of Olli"?
<cnd> Satoris, you have to review your mgr
<bregma> I haven't done my taxes yet, either
<cnd> bregma, Satoris: these reviews were due last wednesday
<Satoris> Allhands does not give me a link to do that.
<bregma> right, I'll get right to it
<cnd> hmm... maybe you missed it
<dandrader> cnd, I think I'm out of it since I'm a newcomer
<cnd> Satoris, it should be in your tasks
<bregma> check all outstanding tasks, its not always obvious
<Satoris> Allhands is not allowing me to log in. Grumble.
<Satoris> But last I checked, my outstanding tasks did not have that.
<cnd> tvoss, how will we do one-shot builds?
<Satoris> Logged in, no manager review task that I can see.
<tvoss> cnd, still on staging. Migrating that service is still up to discussion :/
<cnd> ok
<cnd> tvoss, that doesn't really need to be moved
<cnd> but it would be nice to be able to email launchpad
<cnd> and we need to figure out why geis is always failing...
<tvoss> cnd, ack ... larry is on that, I motivated it with a mail to the mp
<cnd> heh
<tvoss> the example mailing to the merge-proposal
<cnd> Satoris, btw, I found something on friday
<cnd> instead of searching for all bugs for specific upstreams, we can use the canonical-utouch meta project
<cnd> sorry, canonical-multitouch
<cnd> https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-multitouch
<Satoris> That does not list bugs in e.g. Unity-2D.
<cnd> no, we still have to search for them
<cnd> right now we have three searches:
<cnd> 1. ubuntu packages structurally subscribed by utouch-bugs
<cnd> 2. all other ubuntu bugs subscribed by utouch-bugs
<cnd> 3. all upstream bugs in a list of packages
<cnd> we can replace 3 with all bugs against canonical-multitouch
<cnd> so we don't have a static list that must be updated any time we make a new project
<Satoris> What is the list of packages that canonical-multitouch provides and why are they not already in 1?
<cnd> 1.  is ubuntu packages, canonical-multitouch is for the upstreams of those packages
<Satoris> Which are all our projects, right?
<cnd> probably, but not necessarily
<cnd> for example, we may not have a package for a project yet
<cnd> but we may have bugs for it
<cnd> to track development
<Satoris> The query 1 I currently have does not make any distinction between packages and projects. It takes them all.
<cnd> what do you mean?
<cnd> I know it only searches for bugs against ubuntu packages because otherwise it would timeout
<cnd> unless I'm remembering wrong
<Satoris> What timeouts?
<bregma> for query 1, isn;t the project 'ubuntu'?
<cnd> launchpad times out if the query takes too long
<cnd> bregma, right
<Satoris> I have never had that issue...
<cnd> Satoris, try searching for *all* bugs structurally subscribed by utouch-bugs
<cnd> not bugs against the ubuntu project
<cnd> it will timeout
<Satoris> cnd: as far as I can tell, get_touch_bugs.py already does that. Line 106.
<Satoris> Sorry, line 108.
<cnd> Satoris, that only gets direct subscriptions
<Satoris> Or is structural subscription somewhere else.
<cnd> the issue is when you attempt to get structural subscriptions for all bugs
<cnd> we don't really query launchpad that way because it times out
<Satoris> And you can subscribe to packages, but not to projects?
<cnd> you can subscribe to both
<cnd> but you can't query based on structural subscriptions effectively because lp times out
<Satoris> The other scripts do this by querying tags.
<cnd> we have the canonical-multitouch project, so we can use that
<cnd> that way we don't have to mess with tags
<Satoris> Anyway, I think this is getting way too complicated. We don't create new projects or packages very often. We can just keep them in a list.
<cnd> Satoris, how is it complicated?
<cnd> I mean, it's already somewhat complicated because lp has issues
<cnd> but I don't see how this development makes it "too" complicated
<Satoris> To clarify: we want a list of bugs in a) certain projects/packages and b) where utouch-bugs is directly subscribed, right?
<cnd> yes, where certain projects is canonical-multitouch upstream, and any ubuntu packages that utouch-bugs is structurally subscribed to
<Satoris> And this list of projects changes how often?
<cnd> not too often, but why does that matter?
<Satoris> Because the time we have spent discussing this is already greater than the amount of time to manually update the list from here to eternity.
<Satoris> If LP interface has issues, why use it?
<Satoris> Do the simplest possible thing first and only if it is not good enough should you look into more complex solutions.
<cnd> I'm trying to make it simpler
<Satoris> There are scripts already in Arsenal to query for bugs in a list of packages. We could just use those.
<Satoris> If the list is static.
<cnd> Satoris, we need the data formatted in ways that other scripts aren't providing, afaict
<cnd> we want to see the different tasks of a bug, including the upstream and the ubuntu packaging bugs
<Satoris> If we want the tree thing, yes. But those are not sortable.
<Satoris> Since we are the upstream and packagers, they are really not that different.
<cnd> Satoris, they are because we need to track what has been fixed upstream vs in ubuntu
<Satoris> There are two different problems here. 1) what bugs to query and 2) how to present this information.
<Satoris> Is there a case where we would fix a bug in Ubuntu and not immediately apply the same fix to trunk?
<cnd> Satoris, it's the other way around
<cnd> we might have bugs fixed upstream and not in ubuntu yet
<cnd> usually
<Satoris> But if it is a bug that we are going to fix in Ubuntu, why would we not immediately push it out?
<cnd> because you don't make a release for every bug you fix
<cnd> releases take time, and we sometimes need to test them more
<cnd> such as for SRUs
<bregma> feature freezes
<bregma> release freezes
<Satoris> If it is not tested enough to go out as an SRU, it should not go to trunk.
<Satoris> The situation would of course be different if we were not our own upstream.
<cnd> Satoris, I don't understand why you are pushing back
<bregma> bugs are reported in Ubuntu that are not necessarily reported against the upstream package, too
<bregma> we can't always rely on seb for fixing that
<Satoris> cnd: the other scripts do not care about bug tasks, only bugs. That makes them simpler than what we are trying to do. Since we are doing more complicated stuff we need to have a good reason for it.
<cnd> Satoris, we do have a good reason for it
<cnd> and it's not just utouch
<cnd> tedg,  was complaining about this exact same issue for his projects
<cnd> this has uses throughout PS
<Satoris> That's good. Does he have a good description on what he needs? More input is always better.
<cnd> I think if we can figure something out that works well for us we then have a good starting point
<tedg> I'm sure what the question is exactly, but I'm happy to bitch if needed ;-)
<Satoris> I'll leave for today. Please send me an email that outlines what the HTML page should show, how it should be formatted and so on. I currently don't have a clear vision on what you are trying to achieve.
<cnd> Satoris, I don't have a great idea either
<cnd> we have to experiment
<cnd> I think you are getting close
<cnd> the sortable web page you sent me today works pretty well
<cnd> it just needs the information for the ubuntu packaging task too
<Satoris> Hmm, it should be there already...
<cnd> secondarily, we should be using canonical-multitouch to search for upstream bug reports
<Satoris> My bad, it's not. I'll add it.
<Satoris> cnd: the main problem (which I forgot to mention) is that those mako files need a completely different form of JSON, the generator of which is only inside one of the get-bug-foo scripts. And it is intertwingled with everything else.
<cnd> Satoris, could you refactor it to make it better?
<Satoris> get_touch_bugs.py can not generate it.
<Satoris> cnd: now we get into the issue that Arsenal does not have good library design behind it. Code is copypasted. Getting that fixed is a group effort or we just go into madness.
<cnd> Satoris, you can start it
<Satoris> Perhaps. But not today. I'm off, see you tomorrow. ->
<cnd> I'll biab
#ubuntu-touch 2012-04-17
<cnd> Satoris, the bug report looks nice :)
<cnd> unfortunately, I'm getting some duplicate entries
<cnd> you have them in your foo.html too
<cnd> look at bug 963525
<cnd> when I run your script it has three entries for each task (dulwich and bzr-git)
<cnd> oh wait
<cnd> there's something buggy with the colunn sorter
<cnd> ahh, nm, I didn't realize something
<cnd> there's three tasks for that bug
<cnd> for each task, there are three entries where there should be only one
 * bregma drains his coffee cup
<cnd> I think I have fixed all the "bugs" with touchscreens in X right now, but there is a design issue that prevents menus from working properly
<tvoss> working on utouch-frame generic backend, prototype of x-backend rewrite is working, iterating chromium patch, jenkins work (production and staging)
<cnd> I'm trying to figure out if we should just say they are broken
<cnd> and move on
<cnd> or if we should change the XI 2.2 protocol slightly when explicit device grabs are used
<tvoss> cnd, what is the design issue? Just curious
<cnd> when a touch begins, a list of listeners is created
<cnd> touches and pointer events derived from them are only ever sent to that list of listeners
<Satoris> Bug report and bugfixing secret project.
<cnd> however, the way menus work is it receives a button press
<tvoss> ah, and a menu opens up after the initial list of listeners is created?
<cnd> then it creates a new menu window
<cnd> and then it grabs the device
<cnd> and it expects to receive events through that grab
<Satoris> cnd: you can't have only one line for each entry, because they can all have different status/importance/milestone/etc.
<cnd> which it does for subsequent touches, but not for the touch that initiated it
<cnd> Satoris, there should be one line per task
<Satoris> Or putting them in a tree structure, which is unsortable as discussed earlier.
<cnd> I'm seeing 3 lines per task
<cnd> but only for a few bugs
<cnd> most are correct
<cnd> dandrader, standups!
<Satoris> Hmm. That is strange.
<dandrader> I'm now debugging the patch that makes unity use geisv2 api with accept() reject() (regular recognizer)
<cnd> bregma, if you're going to drink coffee by the water cooler, you need to chat too :)
<bregma> I got my gesture-config stuff almost done yesterday then realized the config is per-subscription, not global, so now I have a whole lot more left to impement
<cnd> dandrader, where do we stand with the geis touch coordinates?
<bregma> test cases these days are the bulk of the work
<Satoris> I put bugs in an array. Probably need to change that to a dict so that duplicates go away.
<cnd> Satoris, ahh, that sounds like a good idea :)
<dandrader> cnd, didn't start working on it yet. will do after I finish with the unity geisv2 update (ie. once it's working again)
<cnd> dandrader, how long until you have geisv2 done?
<dandrader> took much more work than I anticipated. I wanted to expose that event->groupset->group->gestures hierarchy in GeisAdapter
<cnd> dandrader, if it's not much more then that's fine, but we need to focus on fixing bugs for the release
<bregma> jeepers cripes I just went to do an apt-get upgrade and it's 2 GB of downloads... has every single package in the distro been updated in the last 3 or 4 days?
<Satoris> cnd: is there anything else to add to the output?
<cnd> Satoris, assignee would be good
<Satoris> Ok, will add.
<cnd> otherwise, I think it's good :)
<cnd> for a future version, I'm starting to think we want to separate bugs that are relevant to us, and bugs that are our responsibility
<cnd> so the bzr-git signed tag support is relevant to us, but not under our control
<cnd> we'll have to come up with a way to separate them though
<cnd> but that's after we get the initial report up
<cnd> I'll be biab
<Satoris> cnd: I'll leave now but Skype later?
<dandrader> cnd, https://code.launchpad.net/~dandrader/utouch-geis/lp984069/+merge/102337
<dandrader> should I include a test as well?
<cnd> dandrader, fix looks good, but yes it does need a test
<cnd> dandrader, you can use one of the existing touchscreen device recordings in the geis testsuite
<dandrader> cnd, could you test it out (as explained in the proposal)?
<cnd> dandrader, yeah
<cnd> dandrader, I won't get to it for a bit thoug
<cnd> meetings and such
<dandrader> ok
<cnd> bregma, wrt dandrader|lunch's branch, did you build and run the unity branch too?
<cnd> if you were able to perform three touch gestures, then it should be all fixed
<bregma> no, I have not rebuilt unity
<bregma> I do want to know why having to have all three touches in the window is a requirement
<bregma> it seems we discussed that and I recall the conclusion was that it's OK for one touch to be outside the window (fat fingers and small windows)
<bregma> that's why Ikbel asked the question on the big
<dandrader> bregma,  I get several failures when running geis tests. do they all work for you?
<bregma> you mean "make check"?
<dandrader> yes
<bregma> yes, works for me on all my machines, at least on a first pass
<dandrader> well, if I leave my computer alone while the display is blank I get only one failure (a seg fault)
<bregma> on subsequent runs I sometimes get the spurious failure
<dandrader> so the tests automatically switch to a tty and should be kept there?
<bregma> I don't run them in a tty
<bregma> the gtest-based tests shouldn't need one, the check-based tests don;t need one
<bregma> you _do_ need to be root to run the gtest-based tests
<dandrader> me neither, but when I run them they seem to do so. My screen gets blank and I have to do Ctrl+Alt+F7 to get back to my desktop
<dandrader> yes, I'm running them as root
<bregma> perhaps one of the captive evemu recordings are doing something bad to your desktop
<dandrader> hmm... now I get more failures but no tty swithc
<dandrader> that switch might be related to the fact that I'm running compiz from a tty
<dandrader> would be nice if those recordings could be played in-process through a fake utouch-frame layer
<bregma> or something like that
<cnd> dandrader, yes and no, I like having the recordings play through X because then I can double check that I haven't screwed anything up in the display server :)
<cnd> and the necessary VT switch should be fixed in a future xorg-gtest release
<cnd> if you have xorg-gtest build and installed from upstream git, then log out and back in, you shouldn't need a VT switch anymore
<dandrader> something is really wrong. tests in all utouch projects are failing for me. no utouch-grail test gets any event (such as device added) for instance
<dandrader> I wonder what has changed since the last time I've run those tests...
<dandrader> (successfully, that is)
<cnd> dandrader, do you have a stale X server process maybe?
<cnd> sometimes the test dies unexpectedly and the X server is left running
<dandrader> hmmm... let me check
<cnd> that could cause an issue
<dandrader> cnd, I did!
<dandrader> good. now I'm back to a new set of failures and that odd VT switch :)
<cnd> dandrader, hopefully that is resolved with an upstream X server patch and an update to xorg-gtest
<cnd> I'm just waiting on keith packard to merge the patch into xserver
<cnd> dandrader, I'm checking out geis and unity now :)
<dandrader> my frustration level decreased quite a bit now :)
<dandrader> (with your tip about the stale X server)
<cnd> good, though I'm sorry you had to go through it :(
<bregma> ah, yeah, that.  forgot to mention it sometimes happens
<dandrader> cnd, btw, I think you're the appropriate person to reply to this one https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/978378/comments/1
<cnd> ahh, I hadn't seen that comment yet
<cnd> I'll respond
<cnd> dandrader, btw, Ikbel was a previous member of the utouch team
<cnd> he wrote ginn
<cnd> just fyi
<dandrader> hmmm, is he still at Canonical?
<bregma> that's the comment on the bug I mentioned above (see scrollback)
<bregma> dandrader, no, he's studying full time
<dandrader> ah, ok
<cnd> dandrader, hmm... the coords still seem wrong
<cnd> I'll debug a bit
<dandrader>  :(
<cnd> oh wait
<cnd> I checked out the wrong geis branch :)
<cnd> dandrader, the geis change fixed it :)
<cnd> \o/
<dandrader> finally!
<cnd> when straddling windows it doesn't work any more
#ubuntu-touch 2012-04-18
 * bregma fills his cup from the water cooler
<xerent> hello! I'm implementing an USB multi-touch microcontroller and am looking for info about which drivers on the linux side I should be working with
<bregma> cnd, any suggestion? ^^^
<cnd> xerent, are you asking about kernel drivers, or X drivers, or something else?
<cnd> dandrader, tvoss, bregma: standups!
<bregma> I finished off the geis branch for grail property settings, I'm not completely
<xerent> well, both!
<bregma>  pleased so I'm buffing it, I'll post a merge request in a bit
<tvoss> working on generic backend and putting some final touches on a huge iteration of the chromium patch
<cnd> I'm going to try to figure out why behemoth touchscreen window motion is slower than expected
<cnd> xerent, what is your end goal?
<xerent> cnd: we've previously built our apps with Qt, using generic HID kernel and X drivers
<xerent> and now we're looking to moving from single touch to multi touch
<cnd> for general purposes, you want to provide multitouch through the kernel evdev interface
<cnd> the rest of the X stack will take care of things
<cnd> so either you need to create a linux driver, or you need to take the raw events in userspace and reinject them as a new input device using uinput
<xerent> is there some driver for hid multi-touch digitizers floating around we could use?
<dandrader> I am frustrated with the brittleness, slowness and unreliability of utouch-* integration tests. Thus I want to make a unit test for geis bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/984069 instead of an integration test. So right now I'm evaluating the best approach (and feasibility) to isolate the grail backend of utouch-geis, that is, where to draw the lines between live code and mocked code. I believe it should be straightforward to unit test utouch stu
<dandrader> ff. After all, there's a good number of layers and interfaces around  (frame, grail, geis, frontend/backends abstractions) that must help with the isolation.
<cnd> there's documentation on the evdev protocol in Documentation/input/multi-touch-protocol.txt and Documentation/input/event-codes.txt
<xerent> cnd: thank you
<cnd> xerent, the generic hid-multitouch driver may work
<cnd> if your device is win7 hid-multitouch compliant
<cnd> dandrader, it would be good if we could fix some of the brittleness too
<cnd> what issues were you hitting after we fixed dummy.conf
<bregma> dandrader, for better unit testing in geis, you'd want to refactor the grail back end for geis to allow for mocking Xlib
<bregma> or, at least, someone would want to do that
<bregma> hmmm, maybe I'll look in to that later today
<xerent> cnd: we might want to make it compliant in case our customers insist on installing windows on our devices, so :)
<cnd> also, some of the long waits in the unit tests aren't really necessary if we properly code the tests to look for things like X input event addition events
<xerent> or, at least, tricking Windows into thinking it's compliant.
<bregma> I'm going to want to do a little refactoring to improve unit testing for the upcoming plugin-architecture changes to geis
<xerent> cnd: anyways, thank you.
<cnd> xerent, np :)
<xerent> we're looking into bringing linux-based multi-touch into industrial vehicle controls. my job is awesome.
<bregma> how well does multi-touch function in industrial environments?  Does the dust and grim cause problems?
<dandrader> cnd, the dummy xserver keeps hanging around instead of dying. In some tests sometimes there are protocol errors for XIQueryDevice. sometimes no device added events come at all from grail in tests
<dandrader> they probably all have the same cause
<cnd> hmm
<xerent> well the main problems has been with grounding the PCAP screens and isolating them from EM interference
<cnd> I'm guessing there is a mechanism to be sure that child processes die when parents die, we just need to find it
<xerent> as for dust, the controls are often placed inside the vehicle (closed space)
<xerent> though they are rugged to prevent dust and water etc.
<xerent> also temperature might be an issue with some touch screens, but we havn't tested that much yet
<bregma> cnd: setsid()?
<xerent> we usually heat the devices from -40 degrees C to -20 using internal heaters before turning on power
<cnd> bregma, why setsid?
<bregma> when the session group leader dies, all its children should die
<bregma> at least, that's the way it used to be, seems things keep changing under me these days
<cnd> hmm
<bregma> you turn your back on these linux guys for a minute and they reinvent everything yet again
<cnd> bregma, how are children killed?
<cnd> are they sent a signal?
<cnd> looks like the child gets SIGHUP?
<bregma> I suspect the xorg server may be doing a setsid(), which may be the cause of the problem
<bregma> I'm not sure what mechanism is used to kill the children, but sending a HUP followed by a KILL after a timeout rings a bell
<bregma> or, no, TERM followed by KILL sounds better
<cnd> bregma, I *think* because we are using the dummy driver setsid() isn't called
<bregma> yes, and the captive server _usually_ gets shut down
<bregma> the fact that it sometimes doesn't smells like some sort of race
<cnd> bregma, well, xorg-gtest isn't calling setsid()
<cnd> so the pgid is left as the pgid of the shell
<bregma> that much is certain
<cnd> right?
<bregma> yes
<cnd> so if we call setsid() we may be able to resolve the issue
<bregma> it would be awkward to call setsid() in a foreground program, I think
<cnd> hmm
<cnd> bregma, maybe setpgid() for the child process?
<cnd> would that have the effect we want?
<bregma> maybe we just need to have an atexit call that explicitly kills the child....  we shouldn't need to, though, because child processes should die with their parent unless they take special action
<bregma> we just need to find out why the captive server is not shutting down
<bregma> I shall turn some attention to this, it needs some
<cnd> bregma, dandrader|afk: I don't know off the top of my head under what circumstances the dummy x server will continue to live
<cnd> do you?
<bregma> no
<bregma> that's why I suspect a race somewhere
<cnd> when I run sudo ./check-grail, the sudo process becomes the process group leader for both check-grail and the X server, and bash remains the session leader
<cnd> if I run check-grail and then suspend it with ctrl-shift-z, then I kill the check-grail process, the x server lives on
<cnd> I gdb'd the server process and I got SIGCONT when I killed check-grail
<cnd> oh wait, that was probably because I had stopped it
<cnd> it got SIGPIPE when I killed check-grail while it was running
<cnd> but it just continues on
<cnd> I'm beginning to think the best we can do is catch all fatal signals in xorg-gtest and terminate the X server
<cnd> obviously we can't catch SIGTERM
<cnd> but c'est la vie?
<cnd> I mean we can't catch SIGKILL
<cnd> biab
<cnd> bregma, metres?
<cnd> really?
<bregma> aren't the values in metres?
<cnd> bregma, they are in meters!
<cnd> I have no idea what a metre is :)
 * bregma considers bitter remarks on cultural hegemony regarding a measurement system not even use use by the hegemon
<bregma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre#Spelling
<bregma> I think the threshold properties should have been in furlongs anyway
<cnd> I think it's clear that the US has things correct, and everyone else is stuck in their ways since they use meter for devices but the two terms have the same etymology :)
<bregma> the Ubuntu documentation style guide says to use U.S. spellings where there are alternatives, so I will change the comments
<bregma> I believe the U.S. spelling is also 'the', so I will change that
<cnd> bregma, I was just joking about metre, but I guess if the ubuntu doc style guide says so...
<cnd> man, where does the time go?
<cnd> it's already lunch time
<cnd> bregma, dandrader|biab: I have xorg-gtest daily builds working again
<cnd> I have to manually push the packaging branch
<cnd> but now you can use ppa:utouch-team/daily to get the latest fixes
<dandrader> hmm, opk
<dandrader> ok
<cnd> i.e. please review the patches I sent out and then you can have them too :)
<dandrader> btw, the mocking is coming along nicely. I'm mocking all Xlib and XInput calls. Seems that only a very small subset is used by frame+grail+geis
<cnd> dandrader, if you're mocking up X, I would poke robert ancel
<cnd> he has been mocking up other parts of X for lightdm
<cnd> and has extended an invitation for us to mock up the input stack in his X mock project
<cnd> I just can't remember what the project is called off the top of my head
<dandrader> ah, good to know
#ubuntu-touch 2012-04-19
<cnd> bregma, tvoss, dandrader, Satoris: standups!
<tvoss> working on jenkins documentation and utouch-frame generic backend
<dandrader> I'm mocking up Xlib and Xinput2 to make a unit test for the grail backend of utouch-geis.
<Satoris> Super secret thingy.
<bregma> working on some outstanding minor tweaks in utouch-geis that were delayed due to precise freeze
<cnd> I have finally gotten reviews of 17 touch patches for the x server, so I plan on preparing an SRU for it today
<dandrader> cnd, what's an SRU?
<cnd> dandrader, stable release update
<cnd> since we're in final freeze, any changes that aren't critical will need to be provided as an SRU
<cnd> once that's done, I'll move on to fixing bug 968845, which is where macbook trackpads go crazy when you close the lid
<cnd> Satoris, have you fixed the duplicate bug tasks in the report?
<cnd> I'd like to use it to generate a bug list for the weekly report today
<Satoris> Errm, didn't I send you the fixed one yesterday already?
<bregma> cnd is going to get spanked for mentioning g*t
<cnd> Satoris, not that I recall
<cnd> Satoris, is it pushed up to bzr?
<Satoris> Yes.
<cnd> ok
<cnd> I'll grab from there
<cnd> bregma, it's a question I've been grappling with for a while now
<cnd> even more so when desrt showed me git add -p
<Satoris> I got some emails today that were dated last week. Canonical's email server seems to be behaving a bit strange.
<cnd> ugh
<bregma> I had actually wondered the same thing, thanks for vocalizing
<bregma> I got some emails on Monday dated in early March
<cnd> I've started to look into git-bzr
<cnd> it doesn't have an "official" project space yet, it's mostly a git branch on github
<cnd> and it has some issues
<cnd> but it was able to convert the ubuntu packaging branch for xorg-gtest to bzr so I could push it up and get daily builds working again
<Satoris> I would like Git a lot more if its UI wasn't designed solely to drive its users to madness and eat their souls.
<Satoris> But maybe that's just me.
<cnd> Satoris, yes, you can't really appreciate git until you learn its idiosyncrasies
<cnd> it's unfortunate
<bregma> you stil have a soul?
<cnd> before git ate it, I suspect
<Satoris> No, that is what irritates Git. It tries to grasp it and it's not there.
<dandrader> cnd, Are the Xinput2 structs documented anywhere (I might have asked this before...)
<cnd> dandrader, I don't know about the libXi XInput2 structs
<cnd> the XInput protocol structs are documented
<cnd> they are very similar
<dandrader> ah, ok. the protocol documentation
<cnd> /usr/share/doc/x11proto-input-dev/XI2proto.txt.gz
<Satoris> cnd: did you receive my weekly report just now?
<Satoris> I have to leave now, but in case you have not received it, the fault lies in the email server.
<cnd> dandrader|lunch, just received your touchscreen laptop :)
<dandrader> \o/
<cnd> dandrader, I plan on installing ubuntu so we don't have to waste time doing that at the sprint
<cnd> do you have any issues with that?
<dandrader> not at all
<cnd> k
<cnd> hmm... my fix for bug 967267 in geis, where delta values are calculated incorrectly when touch count changes, has caused a regression
<cnd> it's the reason why the window lags my fingers on a touchscreen
<cnd> it will also probably cause window motion to speed up again when using the magic trackpad
#ubuntu-touch 2012-04-20
<dandrader> bregma, can I assume that a GeisTouch will have the same ID as its XInput2 counterpart?
<bregma> dandrader, I can't guarantee it, the GEIS touchId is the same as the Frame touchId but I can't guarantee that's transitive with the X touchId
<Satoris> I have to leave early, but today I have been refactoring and adding tests to the secret project.
<bregma> ah, Friday
 * bregma thinks about making an espresso to fill his empty cup
<tvoss> chromium patch love, utouch-frame backend work, secret project
<bregma> before I bring up some dbus-backend tests for geis I'm trying to figure out a nice way to simplify existing tests, they're a bit of a pain
 * tvoss notices that bregma didn't have a coffee for standus today
<dandrader> Finished mocking up Xlib and XInput2 for utouch-geis testing. Works beautifully. Now I've started to tidy up things and write the actual regression test for https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/984069
<tvoss> dandrader, do you have the mocks reusable or are they tightly integrated with geis?
 * bregma swirls the dregs of a fine melange spice coffee from Arrakis
<dandrader> tvoss, they're reusable, but made for geis needs
<bregma> I hope they're reusable so they can be used with frame and grail tests
<dandrader> so they're not mocking up all of Xlib
<dandrader> just what geis and frame uses
<tvoss> dandrader, ack .. will take a look at it then
<tvoss> dandrader, might have questions though :)
<tvoss> cnd, standup?
<cnd> right, thanks :)
<dandrader> bregma, grail tests could use the utouch-frame generic backend that tvoss is cooking up as well
 * bregma passes cnd some spice coffee to help his eyes open
<cnd> I'm going to fix up the geis deltas patch, then look for more bugs to work on
<cnd> bregma, dandrader: reviews of the xorg-gtest patches would be appreciated :)
<dandrader> cnd, about that x11 mock up project that you mentioned the other day. The one that Robert Ancell started. Seems to be an absolute overkill for our needs. https://launchpad.net/xig
<cnd> dandrader, overkill isn't necessarily a bad thing
<dandrader> I didn't spend enough time to understand it properly. but seems quite complex
<cnd> dandrader, are you trying to say that you think it's not designed well, and we shouldn't integrate with it?
<cnd> or?
<dandrader> cnd, Can't really tell right now as I didn't spend enough time to understand it properly. It's just my feeling against adding more complexity than needed. the mocking I did is pretty simple and it's sufficient.
<dandrader> most functions are empty implementations
<cnd> dandrader, the tradeoff is that we might end up reimplementing similar things multiple times
<cnd> I'm a big fan of reuse and extending existing projects
<cnd> dandrader, I'd feel better if you have concrete reasons why we shouldn't integrate with xig
<cnd> we could then give feedback to robert too
<bregma> for a proper mock Xlib I would want to be able to capture real X events to a file and be able to send them through the mock object to reproduce operations in a controlled way
<cnd> bregma, that would be rather difficult
<bregma> I'm just sayin' that's what I would want
<cnd> because of things like window IDs
<cnd> at a certain point, you're better off using the real implementation
<cnd> dandrader, would you mind doing a more in depth look at xig and writing up your conclusions?
<bregma> is that project on lp?
<cnd> bregma, xig?
<cnd> https://launchpad.net/xig
<bregma> super, thanks
<dandrader> cnd, I can do it after I'm done with https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/984069
<cnd> dandrader, will that require merging in your xi mocks?
<dandrader> yes :)
<cnd> ugh
<cnd> I would rather we made full decisions up front about this
<bregma> sounds like a good sprint-time discussion
<cnd> dandrader, an xorg-gtest based test would get us over the hump for this specific bug
<cnd> and then we can look more closely at the X mocks
<dandrader> I would rather not use xorg-gtest for this. Besides, I have the mock ready right now.
<dandrader> Why start it over with an xorg-gtest approach?
<cnd> there's a real cost with multiple implementations of the same thing
<dandrader> the mock is small, it's simple to remove it
<cnd> dandrader, maybe we can work out a deal
<cnd> we can merge your mock, but one of your tasks is to do a more formal look at xig
<cnd> and either redevelop the mock in xig if it is suitable
<cnd> or provide sufficient reasoning why we shouldn't
<dandrader> there's a real cost in integration tests that are slow to run and are unreliable since they break easily because they depend on several external factors
<cnd> all that can be fixed
<cnd> even the slowness for the most part
<cnd> the way we do the tests right now we insert delays where we don't "really" need them if we write the tests properly
<dandrader> cnd, sure. your deal was my suggestion. dig into xig after I'm done with bug 984069
<cnd> dandrader, let's aim to have things ready to discuss at the sprint
 * bregma hates artificial delays
 * bregma spent too many years doing realtime to have likes for usleep()
<cnd> there's two places where we generally have delays in our tests:
<cnd> device init waits
<dandrader> cnd, to tell the truth I don't even know how to test bug 984069 with xorg-gtest. With the mock I send Xinput2 events with specific window and device coords. Then I can easily check which of the coords showed up on the other side, in Geis events
<cnd> and polling for more events
<cnd> dandrader, you can send a gesture event from a touchscreen evemu recording
<cnd> and check that the coordinates match known good values
<cnd> for the device waits, we can listen for XIHierarchyChanged events
<cnd> instead of waiting X seconds
<cnd> and for the polling for more events, we probably should just break the loop when we get the gesture end event we're looking for
<bregma> most of what's in the geis integration tests is slapped together quickly so I could forcus on functionality rather than pukka tests
<cnd> yeah
<bregma> I am turning my attention to improving the tests today
<cnd> I do the same in grail and frame though
<cnd> it's not just you :)
<bregma> because it is hurting me avery time I look at one
<cnd> bregma, I'm beginning to think that xorg-gtest should have an event processor and dispatcher
<cnd> so we don't reimplement the same event loop in every test
<bregma> perhaps, but it will take some though to make it usefully generic
<cnd> yeah
<cnd> that's why I haven't done it yet :)
<bregma> I would start by refactoring the geis tests to see if we can identify what can be further refactored upstream into xorg-gtest
<cnd> yep
<cnd> the other thing I might tackle today is that when the env shuts down we SIGTERM/SIGKILL the x server but we don't wait for it to actually die
<cnd> I think this is causing race conditions in the geis tests
<cnd> where the next test starts before the previous test is finished
<bregma> I would think the OS should really take care of that sort of thing
<bregma> perhaps the X server is a special case because of all the wacky external stuff it does
<bregma> like all the DBus stuff it ssems to do (ever run strace -f on it?)
<bregma> cnd, your comments on bzr/git sure poked a sore spot
<cnd> there's a not insignificant amount of time between the server being sent SIGTERM and it actually completing shut down
<cnd> yeah...
<cnd> but it's inevitable, there are people ingrained on bzr and git
<bregma> it's a religious issue for many
<bregma> I was playing with git-bzr-ng yesterday....  sweet
<cnd> yeah
<cnd> bregma, the one from termie's github repo?
<bregma> yes
<bregma> it's not package for Debian or Ubuntu
<cnd> it still has some rough edges though
<cnd> but it definitely helps
<cnd> bregma, if I want to listen for both drags and pinches, I create separate filters for them and add them to one subscription?
<bregma> yes:  filter terms are ANDed, subscription filters are ORed
<cnd> k
<bregma> I repeat that to myself a lot because I always muck it up
<cnd> bregma, what's the easiest way to determine what type of a gesture a geis 2 frame is?
<cnd> it looks like it would be easy if I could get the gesture class of a frame
<cnd> but that doesn't seem possible
<bregma> the only way is to call geis_frame_is_class(), which means you need to remember all the classes as they are reported
<cnd> bregma, should we be adding a geis_frame_get_class() call?
<bregma> a frame can be classified more than one way
<cnd> ahh
<bregma> in theory there could be a ..._get_classes() call
<cnd> if I have both a pinch and a drag going on for the same subscription, will I just get one set of frames?
<bregma> that's the way it's supposed to work
<cnd> ok
<bregma> I believe it does work that way, but I don't think there's a test to prove it
<bregma> dandrader, do you have a branch with your mock X available?
<dandrader> bregma, lp:~dandrader/utouch-geis/lp984069
<bregma> thanks -- I think you're right, this is exactly what we need, but I think it should be a completely separate project, it's got potential uses outside uTouch
<bregma> that can be done later
<bregma> xig wouldn't help use
<bregma> *us*
<cnd> bregma, why wouldn't xig help us?
<bregma> as far as I can tell by reading the code, xig is a glib wrapper around Xlib that comes with a mock xserver
<bregma> it would help us if we rewrote utouch to use gobjects
<cnd> ok
<bregma> we should maybe get Robert to join us for a chat at the sprint or at UDS, if he's not busy, and share
<cnd> yeah
<bregma> or maybe the whole idea of a mock xlib is worthy of a session at UDS?
<cnd> I worry a bit about creating lots of test frameworks for X, when we might move off it soonish
 * bregma backs away slowly from a project that could consume small cities
<cnd> yeah, that's my concern too
<cnd> I do sort of feel the need for a mock is lessened if we make the integration tests work well
<bregma> is there some way we could change evemu so it doesn't need root privs?
<cnd> yes, it's actually quite easy
<cnd> however, it's quite the security hole
<cnd> bregma, put this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/938453/ in /etc/udev/rules.d/99-user-input.rules
<cnd> and change the group to whatever makes sense for you
<cnd> then restart
<cnd> or chmod/chown the files for the current session
<cnd> with that and the fix currently in upstream xorg-gtest master you can run tests as the normal user without having to switch to a VT
<cnd> biab
<cnd> bregma, with the xorg-gtest patch I just sent out, I'm able to run through a full geis test suite without issue
<bregma> I'll test it out locally -- do you need a reviewed-by or anything?
<cnd> yes
<cnd> for all four patches sent to the list
<bregma> righty-o
<cnd> thanks
<cnd> I wish there was a version of the wait* syscalls that took a timeout value
<cnd> it seems silly that there isn't
<cnd> and registering a signal handler for SIGCHLD in a library seems bad
<bregma> well, having a mainline in a library is a bit unusual, too
<cnd> bregma, you mean having main()?
<cnd> it's optional, so you don't have to use it if you don't want
<bregma> I knwo, but it's weird to me
<cnd> yeah
<cnd> but it does make things easier
<bregma> that's why SDL does it on windows
<bregma> just, you know, a data point
<cnd> bregma, with some simple changes we can drop the geis2 tests from over a minute to 18 seconds :)
<cnd> http://paste.ubuntu.com/938581/
<bregma> cnd, why do you think delta-radius should be geometric rather than arithmetic?  Doing it that way doesn't feel quite right on a touchscreen.
<cnd> bregma, the radius value is geometric now
<cnd> it feels right to me, too
<cnd> when I pinch in unity
<bregma> I mean geometric doesn;t feel right
<bregma> then again, gestures no longer work in eog
<bregma> I wonder when that happened
<bregma> hmmmm
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<cnd> bug 986215
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 986215 in utouch-geis "Radius delta values should be a ratio instead of a difference" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986215
<cnd> welcome lubotu3 :)
<bregma> skynet is here
<cnd> bregma, why does geometric not feel right?
<cnd> we discussed this a while back
<cnd> though on irc, where records are harder to find :(
<bregma> it just doesn't feel... right
<bregma> I guess it's just subjective
<bregma> I don't recall any discussion on radius delta being geometric
<bregma> actually, it feels right for touchpads
<cnd> there's also hand size to take into account
<cnd> which geometric handles inherently
<AlanBell> !ping
<ubot5> another contentless ping... sigh...
<AlanBell> quick botswap, I sent the wrong one in
<bregma> perhaps it's mostly a matter of training, geometric is not broken, just not how I expect it to behave on a touchscreen
<bregma> I admit it's really really subjective
<cnd> the problem is if you have arithmetric, you'll have to do thresholds that are based on each individual device size
<cnd> and resolution
<bregma> very true
<cnd> and some devices can't provide accurate values for both :)
<bregma> yes, pain is to be had there
<cnd> I honestly felt like the pinch threshold in unity before this change was good for the magic trackpad
<cnd> but too high for the touchscreen
<cnd> I had to really work to trigger it on behemoth
<cnd> now it feels much more natural on both
<cnd> it was also near impossible on my netbook, but now it is impossible because my netbook is only semi-mt :(
<bregma> well, it's not really that big of a deal for me and perhaps if necessary in the future we can make this a tuning point
<cnd> yeah
<cnd> ubotu
<cnd> ubot5, ubotu
<ubot5> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-touch's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi | Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins | Bot channels and general info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
<cnd> ubot5, es
<ubot5> En la mayorÃ­a de los canales de Ubuntu, se habla sÃ³lo en inglÃ©s. Si busca ayuda en espaÃ±ol entre al canal #ubuntu-es; escriba "/join #ubuntu-es" (sin comillas) y presione intro.
<cnd> !es
<ubot5> En la mayorÃ­a de los canales de Ubuntu, se habla sÃ³lo en inglÃ©s. Si busca ayuda en espaÃ±ol entre al canal #ubuntu-es; escriba "/join #ubuntu-es" (sin comillas) y presione intro.
<cnd> dandrader, just for you:
<cnd> !pt
<ubot5> Por favor, use #ubuntu-br para ajuda em portuguÃªs. Para entrar no canal por favor faÃ§a "/join #ubuntu-br" sem as aspas. Para a comunidade local portuguÃªsa, use #ubuntu-pt. Obrigado.
<cnd> ubot5, thanks!
<ubot5> You're welcome! But keep in mind I'm just a bot ;-)
<dandrader> :)
<dandrader> what's the problem people have with resubmitting a proposal? for me it's the most natural way to do precisely that. otherwise verdicts for an earlier version of the path (like "needs fixing") will still list there
<dandrader> s/path/patch
<cnd> dandrader, earlier reviews can be overwritten by later reviews, and the log tells you what has changed over time
<cnd> the problem with resubmissions is that the interleaving of the code and the reviews are lost
<cnd> but I don't know how to best handle the situation where you add new stuff to an existing approved proposal
<cnd> dandrader, can you provide more detail on why a gtest test won't work for your geis proposal?
<cnd> I don't understand why it can't be used
<dandrader> cnd, it can be used. but I would have to disentangle it from xorg-gtest and the optional compilation of integration tests
<cnd> dandrader, I think we should do that then
<cnd> gtest is supposed to be the "preferred" testing framework for product strategy
<dandrader> sure. I was just too lazy to fight with autotools to do that disentanglement work. :)
<cnd> heh
<dandrader> was reading canonical-tech mailing list. about the bzr situation: it's a bittersweet feeling. It's sad to see a project being ramped down but it's great to see that Git is eventually coming on board :)
<dandrader> oops
<cnd> hmm... google mock is really c++ only
<cnd> maybe keeping the xinput mock simple and hand made is best
<cnd> dandrader, I'm wondering if we should do something a bit fancy:
<cnd> make the mock optionally take evemu recordings
<cnd> and generate xinput events from them
<cnd> at compile/runtime we could then switch between integration and unit testing
<cnd> well, integration with the kernel and X server vs just everything above the X server
<isforinsects> Are there any tests it would be helpful for me to run on a macbook4,2 for 12.04?
<dandrader> cnd,  what do you mean exactly by "making the mock optionally take evemu recordings". It will read the recordings and produce XInput2 events out of them, thus still doing everything in the same process?
<dandrader> (probably not but one can always hope)
<cnd> yes, that's what I mean
<dandrader> awesome!
<cnd> it means adding a lot of code to the mock
<cnd> but it would mean we no longer depend on a kernel and X server unless we want to
<cnd> isforinsects, you can verify that the unity gestures are working: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch#Supported_Gestures
<dandrader> google mock also reallies heavily in classes having mostly virtual methods (if I'm not mistaken) for the mocking magic to work. I really don't like that requirement
<cnd> yeah, I think I remember tvoss saying he looked at it too, and it wouldn't work for the utouch stuff
<isforinsects> cnd: Checked them out, and they are supported. Are those configurable anywhere?
<cnd> isforinsects, no
<cnd> hopefully they don't need any configuration :)
<isforinsects> That's an odd opinion. None of these are things that I find useful. I respect that your opinion might be the majority. but I can imagine that no one else wants desktop pagination, app switching, or tab switching as gestures
<cnd> isforinsects, oh, do you mean configurable as to what gesture corresponds to what action?
<cnd> the answer is still that it's not configurable, but really that's a Unity issue
<cnd> a design issue
<isforinsects> Oh yeah. If you meant what delta values trigger things, I completely trust other's judgement in that.
<cnd> ok
<isforinsects> I've built unity before, do you know where they're defined in the code?
<cnd> isforinsects, we are basically implementing the unity multitouch specification: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/Doc?docid=0AU5sFuLRpCpBZGZra2pqY2pfMTU3MmhwbXczcWQ1
<cnd> if you have input on the designs, and whether there should be configurability, then you will want to ask the unity and/or design team
<cnd> there's a mailing list for it
<cnd> the problem is there are lots of lists and I don't know which is correct :)
<cnd> dandrader is the person working on implementing them though
<cnd> looks like he just left for the day
<bregma> cnd, do you have a xorg-gtest repo with your patches already applied (they're not in http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~cndougla/xorg-gtest)?
<bregma> or is the daily PPA up-to-date with the patches already applied?
<cnd> oh, I haven't pushed them to my repo
<cnd> I'll do that right now
<cnd> bregma, pushed
<cnd> they're in the fixes branch
<bregma> thanks
<bregma> well, I still seem to need the delay in the StartUp() function because the server isn't always ready when I am
<cnd> bregma, do you mean in the fixture SetUp methods?
<cnd> if so, what's the output you get
<cnd> the xorg-gtest environment setup should have waited until a client can open the connection to it
<bregma> I get tests randomly failing without it, not sure why without deeper delving
<bregma> if I run each test standalone, it passes
<bregma> I'll dig deeper
<cnd> I'm upgrading my transformer and will test there too
<cnd> if you need a slow machine to cause problems, it should be slow enough :)
<bregma> heh, the problem seems to be the evemu file creation is taking a long time, it has nothing to do with the X server startup
<bregma> fortunately, the solution to that is pretty obvious
<bregma> .. XIHierarchyChanged events
#ubuntu-touch 2012-04-21
<cnd> bregma, isn't that already handled by geis?
<cnd> listening for device added events?
<bregma> yes and no
<bregma> some of the tests are assuming the device is already there, 'cos that's part of the test
<cnd> part of the test is the assumption that the device already exists?
<bregma> and, yes, a new bug was revealed
<cnd> heh
<bregma> most of the tests are constructed depending on the device already being there (ie. don't wait for a device-added event)
<cnd> bregma, so the tests need to be changed to wait for the device added event?
<bregma> or something, but it's nothing to do with xorg-gtest
<cnd> ok
<bregma> we already wait for a class-added event, so it;s no big thing
<bregma> and I'm really going to town refactoring these, so I'll see if I can do this elegantly
<cnd> heh
<cnd> cool
<bregma> btw, I've finally found a really good use case for C++ lambdas
<cnd> uh oh
<cnd> :)
<cnd> I hope you're having fun
<cnd> it's too late on a friday night to do non-fun stuff :)
<bregma> well, now that I have a handle on what's suddenly causing all these tests to randomly fail, I feel much happier
<cnd> :)
#ubuntu-touch 2013-04-15
<RobbyF> _polto_, can't create users yet
<_polto_> RobbyF, I was able to create a user, it have it's own home, accessible via ssh, but I do not know how to login with this new user...
<RobbyF> it's not built to that extent yet.
<_polto_> RobbyF, how can I reset phablet user so ? to use it with my personal data ?
<RobbyF> you can remove some of the pre-installed data, is that what you mean?
<_polto_> I would like to test SMS, ... address book , ...
<_polto_> yes
<_polto_> remove pre-installed data.
<RobbyF> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes
<RobbyF> scroll down to Sample content section
<_polto_> thanks
<_polto_> got it
<wilee-nilee> So is the raring development in the touch auto installable with the phablet tols?
<onewanman_> hello
<onewanman_> how is the OS progressing
<dholbach> good morning
<Akiva-Mobile> I was just learning about c++ so I could develope for ubuntu-phone in the future. I then found out that a lot of people hate it, especially linus torvalds :http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57643/focus=57918.  Before investing a lot of time in learning more C++, I was thinking that maybe it would be better to learn C, seeing as I already know a oo language [python].
<Akiva-Mobile> my question is whether that is fine if I plan to work with QT?
<Akiva-Mobile> I am a pretty new programmer, but I figure if it works well with c++, it should also work well with c.
<Akiva-Mobile> If I plan to write applications with QT gui's, the ubuntu touch, etc, can I get by with just knowing c?
<bef0rd> qt is c++
<bef0rd> better learn qt and Qml
<Akiva-Mobile> bef0rd: I do not get it; does ubuntu touch applications run on qt? I thought that was just the GUI, where as everything else was c++?
<bef0rd> learn what qt is
<bef0rd> and yes, ubuntu touch apps are qt/qml
<Akiva-Mobile> bef0rd: You could just tell me. It says "Application framework", which means... what? You can use it to make a calculator, or you can use it just to make the framework for a calculator, where as the rest of it has to be done in literal c++?
<chriadam> Akiva-Mobile: Qt is a set of C++ libraries, basically.  When you write Qt code, you're writing C++ - but instead of using standard types, you're using types provided by the Qt libraries.  QML is different: it's a separate language, whose implementation was written in C++, but client code doesn't have to be C++ (you can use just QML syntax + JavaScript)
<chriadam> QML has deep integration with normal Qt C++ types, so you can mix and match Qt C++ and Qt/QML code, in various ways.
<Akiva-Mobile> chriadam: QML just strikes me as a html renderer basically. Is that partly correct?
<chriadam> no
<chriadam> it doesn't use a DOM or a HTML rendering engine
<Akiva-Mobile> okay. why did it choose to use html code?
<chriadam> it didn't
<Akiva-Mobile> sorry
<Akiva-Mobile> javascript
<Akiva-Mobile> im a goof
<Akiva-Mobile> thats what I meant; a javascript renderer
<Akiva-Mobile> QML just strikes me as a JAVASCRIPT renderer basically. Is that partly correct?
<chriadam> it chose JavaScript for expressions basically because it's a well known language, with C-like syntax so it's familiar to most people.  also, QML has similarities to JSON, and JS and JSON are familiar friends.
<chriadam> JavaScript and rendering are completely unrelated concepts
<bef0rd> there's no need to guess, search for QML documentation
<Akiva-Mobile> Thanks for letting me know~
<chriadam> QML uses an optimised, OpenGL scene-graph renderer, written in C++.
<Akiva-Mobile> chriadam|away: Why is it not more logical to use C++ for expressions, seeing it is working with a c++ based language qt?
<chriadam|away> I'm about to head home, unfortunately.  but, briefly: because expressions are (or can be) dynamic.  You can't resolve dynamic things at build time.
<Akiva-Mobile> Thanks!
<Akiva-Mobile> Why can't dynamic things be resolved at build time?
<Akiva-Mobile> Dynamic things as I understand it, is just an equation broken up into smaller equations (supposedly for multitasking)
<Akiva-Mobile> is that like to say, that when c++ compiles, it will solve the  various equations, and save to memory only the results?
<shadeslayer> ogra_: so, I got the bootlooping to stop, but since the screen is always off idk whats happening
<ogra_> shadeslayer, try to enable the serial gadget in your kernel, that should give you serial output on USB after the kernel is up
<shadeslayer> yeah I tried that, but there was no /proc/bus/usb/devices
<ogra_> on your PC ?
<shadeslayer> yes
<ogra_> you want /dev/tty....
<ogra_> check dmesg while booting the n10 with an exisring USB connection
<shadeslayer> oh, I was following https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/usb/gadget_serial.txt
<Rami__> hell
<ogra_> shadeslayer, you ant it builtin  and it should just come up automatically
<shadeslayer> I see
<ogra_> and there is no need for any drivers on the PC side ... just watch dmesg when booting, you shoould see the tty device appear
<shadeslayer> ogra_: and you were right about the the toolchain
<shadeslayer> all of my compile issues went away when I used the ubuntu toolchain
<shadeslayer> so much easier to just export CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabihf-  and run make :)
<nerochiaro> tmoenicke: hi, have a question about the OSK. right now it seems that when you tap and hold on a button, you don't get repeated events. but it would be really useful to have instead
<shadeslayer> ogra_: uh, nothing shows up in dmesg
<xnox> Look how hot this is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5710034/ c++ demangled dpkg symbols file =)
<ogra_> shadeslayer, hmm, weird
<shadeslayer> indeedly
<shadeslayer> note that I /think/ the device booted the kernel because it feels warm when you touch it
<ogra_> lol
<shadeslayer> :P
<shadeslayer> there's no output on the screen, so I can't tell
<ogra_> well, you need to make it output somehow ... either through g_serial or through a framebuffer console
<ogra_> thats always the first essential step
<Quintasan> shadeslayer: you got n10?
<shadeslayer> yes
<Quintasan> Tch. Gibe one plax
<ogra_> xnox, and do these symboals actually have something in their back or is it just stubs
<ogra_> ?
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: whut
<Quintasan> give me one
<Quintasan> :P
<shadeslayer> haha
<shadeslayer> hm, this config has some weird command line options
<shadeslayer> CONFIG_CMDLINE="vmalloc=512M debug_core.break_on_panic=0 debug_core.break_on_exception=0 no_console_suspend s3c2410-wdt.tmr_atboot=1 s3c2410-wdt.tmr_margin=30"
<ogra_> yeah, ignore them, usually the bootloader sets it anyway (and overrides it)
<shadeslayer> if I completely remove all those options, I don't get a bootloop, but don't get a fb as well
<ogra_> just make sure the bootloader config is right
<shadeslayer> ogra_: actually CONFIG_CMDLINE_EXTEND=y
<ogra_> ah
<tmoenicke> nerochiaro: when you keep a button pressed, usually a popup comes up offering extended keys like umlauts
<tmoenicke> nerochiaro: which we will have soon
<shadeslayer> thing is, if I completely remove those options, then I don't get anything ( no bootloop as well )
<ogra_> try console=ttyGS0
<ogra_> that should force it to use the g_serial console
<nerochiaro> tmoenicke: but that doesn't apply to keys like backspace
<shadeslayer> okay
<nerochiaro> tmoenicke: which need repeats to quickly delete text
<shadeslayer> ogra_: so all it should pass to the kernel is root=/dev/block/platform/dw_mmc.0/by-name/userdata console=ttyGS0
<tmoenicke> nerochiaro: yep for that case, true
<tmoenicke> nerochiaro: the maliit-keyboard has that
<ogra_> shadeslayer, no idea if that device path exists ...  but yeah for the console ...
<ogra_> if you boot into an initrd prompt root= doesnt really matter anyway
<shadeslayer> heh okay
<nerochiaro> tmoenicke: any way we can get that fixed ?
<ogra_> just make sure to have the right break= optiojn set too
<shadeslayer> break=top ?
<ogra_> yeah
<tmoenicke> nerochiaro: yep the new keyboard does that
<ogra_> and well, make sure its actually an ubuntu initrd :)
<shadeslayer> haha ofcourse
<xnox> ogra_: what do you mean "in their back"?
<ogra_> xnox, well, are there actually sensors to get data from ?
<xnox> ogra_: maybe =)
<ogra_> (is it linkled into some android lib, libhybris ... libfoo ?)
<ogra_> ah
<xnox> yeah, it's libhybris dependant implementation library.
<ogra_> ah, good
<xnox> ogra_: the "original" symbols are C++ ugliness which can be arch dependant: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5710076/
<ogra_> though i think hybris doesnt have any sensors connections yet ... might be stubs there
<ogra_> yeah
<xnox> ogra_: I didn't know up until today that dpkg-gensymbols supports (c++) tag to filter the symbols via c++filt
<ogra_> symbols are a pain in C++
<xnox> well with c++ tag they are ok, but I am worried that mangled symbol might change/dropped while demangled name stays the same.
<delaya73> hello
<delaya73> help
<delaya73> p990 adb not work, usb connect error: usb device not configured, error -22
<delaya73> error on the side of the phone
<delaya73> lsusb not list device
<delaya73> new bootloader
<ogra_> delaya73, i guess you are better off asking in the xda forums
<delaya73> ok
<ogra_> (in the linked thread from the wikipage)
<shadeslayer> mmmm ... nope, still doesn't show up in dmesg
<krabador> ogra_, why raring haven't the new core apps inside quantal?
<ogra_> krabador, i think they arent built for raring yet ... the raring image is still experimental
<ogra_> which reminds me ...
<ogra_> sergiusens, all raring bits (except changelog and the still empty manifest) are on cdimange now, shoould be ready for testing changes to phablet-flash
<ogra_> i just linked the android parts
<sergiusens> ogra_: nice, I'll make the necessay changes
<sergiusens> can you tag todays quantal build as well?
<ogra_> you mean move it to the quantal dir ? didnt we wnat tests first ?
<ogra_> (its just a cp -a for me but i thought we wanted to wait for a set of manual tests)
<RobbyF> whats the phablet-flash command for raring orga?
<ogra_> there is none
<ogra_> phablet-flash will automatically switch once everything is ready
<RobbyF> oh ok. thought there was from above comments,
 * RobbyF needs morning coffee
<ogra_> no, i meant just for testing :)
<ogra_> (you could surely hack up phablet-flash locally to use raring though
<ogra_> )
 * h01ger dist-upgraded to raring and now the display stays black (nexus4) - i can still ssh in though
<ogra_> dist upgrading might cause libhybris and platform-api issues ...
<ogra_> since half of them lives on the android side
<h01ger> ic
<ogra_> (yet unpackaged)
<h01ger> the android side is the kernel and?
<ogra_> we're waiting for the results of the possible container flip
<h01ger> +, i'm glad this is unsurprising
<ogra_> once android lives in the container it will be easier to update these bits by packages
<ogra_> android consists of kernel, binary drivers the full HAL layer and platform-api and libhybris
<ogra_> everything you need to make the HW work ...
<ogra_> everything above that level is ubuntu
<h01ger> ah. and "platform-api and libhybris" is running on android, but not part of normal android, but rather done to be able to run ubuntu on top?
<ogra_> right, they are the communication layers to talk to the HW
<ogra_> one half lives in android, the other in the ubuntu rootfs
 * h01ger nods
<ogra_> and indeed they need to be in sync
<ogra_> which can cause dist-upgrade to break if you dont also use a new ansdroid layer
<h01ger> makes sense now :-) so i will reflash from scratch once again - though not before next weekend..
<h01ger> ogra_, thanks for the explaination. much appreciated.
<ogra_> :)
<mhall119> ogra_: do you know which core apps are in the latest images?
<mhall119> is it still clock, calendar and calculator?
<ogra_> nope, i dont ... sergiusens might
<sergiusens> mhall119: yes, it's those
<mhall119> thanks
<sergiusens> mhall119: I wasn't told about any new additions
<mhall119> ok, just wanted to make sure, I'm working on a blog post
<sergiusens> mhall119: but it's easy to add them as long as they are in that same ppa
<h01ger> app wise, i mostly miss vibration feedback in on-screen keyboard... but i guess thats planned and i just need to be patient?
<mhall119> sergiusens: yeah, I just wanted to highlight the ones we've started including
<ogra_> h01ger, once we have proper sensor handling in the api vibration should work too
<h01ger> ah, nice. (and good to know what the cause is..)
<mterry> didrocks, hello!  What's the skinny on daily-release and config deployment?  I'm happy to help wrangle some of the stragglers today
<steve_fi> heya, I get these weird corrupted fonts and wondered if someone can give me a hint to where I might start looking to solving it
<steve_fi> http://ubuntuone.com/23E3affaQMvDRxGmfrRTTi
<ogra_> steve_fi, mali ?
<steve_fi> its when using my asus transformer
<steve_fi> tegra
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> i only know it from mali400 ... downgrading to the last driver solves it there
<shadeslayer> that looks like a TF101
<steve_fi> it is
<shadeslayer> such a crappy device that is :(
<steve_fi> yeah I agree, I bought the dock and the keyboard lasted about 2 months on it, bought a second which lasted 1 month
<shadeslayer> heh
<lilstevie> oh fun
<Quintasan> oh lilstevie
<shadeslayer> hahaha
<shadeslayer> lilstevie is here
<shadeslayer> :D
<lilstevie> used to get that on the tegra x11 drivers on the tf101 all the time too
 * lilstevie hates tegra
<steve_fi> ah, so I know where to start looking :D
<Quintasan> steve_fi: You won't get nvidia drivers working on newer kernels I believe
<shadeslayer> ^^
<Quintasan> Since it lacks some interfaces AFAIR
<steve_fi> alright
<ogra_> at least you can still call your friends :P
<Quintasan> lilstevie might know the exact problem
<ogra_> (according to the screenshot)
<shadeslayer> ogra_: it's weird btw, I flashed a kernel a couple of hours ago that made the android robot in funny colors
<shadeslayer> things were cyan
<shadeslayer> and I had modified my init script to increase brightness and the brightness did increase before the screen shutdown
<lilstevie> Quintasan, yeah, but with ubuntu touch they are using android driver blobs
<lilstevie> and using the old ones
<lilstevie> shadeslayer, woo welcome to the weird 2.6.39.4 fbcon screwups
<Quintasan> still, the nvidia driver won't work with new kernel, will it?
<shadeslayer> lilstevie: eh, this was on the Nexus 10
<shadeslayer> it's super weird, I can't get a fbcon on this thing atl all
<lilstevie> Quintasan, the latest android one? no, that said I don't think the latest one works on tegra2
<lilstevie> shadeslayer, oh
<shadeslayer> though I got it to stop bootlooping
<lilstevie> heh
<ogra_> lilstevie, thats n10 and he is trying to get a normal X11 up
<Quintasan> lilstevie: my point exactly
<ogra_> (or rather first an fbcon)
<shadeslayer> ^^
<lilstevie> ogra_, yeah I got that now :p
<shadeslayer> lilstevie: exact same concept as the one you had with the TF101 ;)
<lilstevie> I really hate arm fbcons
<lilstevie> half the time they work
<shadeslayer> can't even get g_serial up
<lilstevie> fbcon hangs the SoC on my xperia t
<shadeslayer> might explain what happens here
<shadeslayer> lilstevie: how did you figure that out btw?
<lilstevie> shadeslayer, uart debugging showed that as soon as the bootloader jumped to the kernel everything just stopped
<shadeslayer> ah
<shadeslayer> the xperia t has uart debugging, cool :)
<lilstevie> requiring a forced reset
<lilstevie> heh yeah
<lilstevie> fairly easy to get to also
 * shadeslayer hasn't found a way to do uart on the n10
<didrocks> hey mterry, sorry was in a hangout :)
<shadeslayer> lilstevie: did you enable FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE on the TF101 and it just worked? :P
<didrocks> mterry: so, some progress, but still some work to do :)
<didrocks> mterry: we had sil2100 fixing some of the "dep-wait forever because of powerpc" things
<didrocks> mterry: I would say that 1. is look at what happened to unity raring
<didrocks> mterry: 2. there is still some help needed on other components if you want :)
<shadeslayer> \o/
<ogra_> shadeslayer, you might need some mali specific settings  in the framebuffer options
<shadeslayer> I have the funny cyan thing again
<lilstevie> shadeslayer, pretty much
<didrocks> mterry: 3. we'll need to put every stacks in manual uploads mode I guess for final freeze
<mterry> didrocks, I noticed that some head stacks were failing because I forgot to list all the install deps of the autopilot test packages.  Will make a merge for that
<didrocks> mterry: oh, sync with sil2100
<didrocks> mterry: he's looking at it today, I asked for it
<mterry> didrocks, OK
 * didrocks hugs mterry for looking at that, the only one! :-)
<didrocks> mterry: I asked me in particular to look at the list closely
<mterry> :)
<didrocks> not sure if you noticed but mysql is installed
<mterry> didrocks, you asked who in particular?
<didrocks> maybe we want to fix the dep/recommends to avoid that :)
<didrocks> mterry: oh, I asked today sil2100 for it. I thought your subteam would look at what they bootstrap :-)
<mterry> didrocks, I have a subteam?
<didrocks> mterry: our* subteam :)
<mterry> didrocks, phew
<mterry> :)
<didrocks> mterry: ahah, I see you relief, you will skip meeting at 8PM :p
<shadeslayer> omg omg omg
<shadeslayer> ogra_: my init can control brightness
<shadeslayer> but that's about all I can get it to do at the moment :D
<shadeslayer> I put this in my init http://paste.kde.org/725000/
<shadeslayer> and the brightness first lowers and then increases \o/
<sil2100> mterry: now I do!
<ogra_> shadeslayer, well, check the console options  in your kernel, there is likely some meli specific option you can set
<ogra_> *mali
<shadeslayer> hmm
<shadeslayer> will try and get a serial console up first
<shadeslayer> since I know it's loading the kernel and booting into the initrd
<Guest38227> hello
<shadeslayer> hmm
<shadeslayer> ogra_: there's a pin : /sys/class/android_usb/android0/enable
<shadeslayer> that's from recovery
<ogra_> shadeslayer, for fbcon ?
<shadeslayer> for usb access
<shadeslayer> the recovery init writes 1 into that file to get adb working
<shadeslayer> but obviously, that path is not available to us I think
<shadeslayer> so I know stuff is happening in the init, I just dont know why it fails over :/
<shadeslayer> ogra_: https://www.dropbox.com/s/55b1wljzlailxb4/IMAG0566.jpg
<shadeslayer> that's the weird colored android I see
<mterry> didrocks, are we keeping quantal support (for the moment) when porting jenkins configs from phablet to head?
<mterry> fginther ^
<fginther> didrocks, this is regarding the upstream ci/autolanding jobs
<sergiusens> the plan for dropping quantal is -> raring tested, raring image has no regressions compared to the quantal build, quantal publishing dropped, cdimage defaults to raring
<mterry> fginther, sergiusens: all the work so far in the daily-release part is raring only
<mterry> Which is not to say we can't re-enable quantal
<sergiusens> mterry: if you keep that phablet-land job, it will do the necessary thing
<mterry> Just that it's a fair bit of unplanned work
<sergiusens> mterry: I guess we will have to flip the switch faster
<fginther> mterry, we're talking about upstream autolanding jobs, does the daily release care about that?
<sergiusens> ogra_: pmcgowan rsalveti ^^
<mterry> fginther, does the auto-upload bit not use the same platform config settings?
<ogra_> sergiusens, i think that misses a "quantal tested" as well
<rsalveti> sergiusens: hopefully we'd be able to take the decision later today/tomorrow
<ogra_> if i tag it to the quantal dir i want to be sure its stable enough for demoing
<rsalveti> depending on the test results
<pmcgowan> right lets execute the plan
<rsalveti> yeah
<fginther> mterry, no, the "configurations" section is for upstream only
<fginther> mterry, the only option that the daily release jobs look at under a project is 'daily_release' :-)
<mterry> fginther, OK.  Well if we want to re-enable quantal, that's fine.  But can that be done separately from this qtvideo-node branch?  Seems like something we should do globally at the top of each stack
<fginther> mterry, yes. that's actually a good point
<fginther> mterry, i'll update my comment
<mterry> fginther, I can make a branch for that.  You said you didn't want to enable all 3 platforms (i386 amd64 armhf)
<mterry> fginther, why not?  Seems like we could have a problem on one of them but not the others
<fginther> mterry, I make the MP, I want to review the other projects briefly
<mterry> fginther, OK
<fginther> mterry, we just try to save some resources by not building all permutations
<AmEv> Anyone there?
<ogra_> where ?
<AmEv> Just wanting to add a device to the WIP list.
<ogra_> do it :)
<AmEv> http://www.thriveforums.org/forum/pio_masaki-development/18090-wip-ubuntu-touch-thrive-development.html
<ogra_> (if you are the porter, just add it yourself, its just a wikipage)
<AmEv> Toshiba Thrive, codename Antares. Not the porter myself, but...
<AmEv> I'll see what I can do.
<ogra_> well, the wiki needs a contact person
<AmEv> Don't know muck Wiki code, but I'll see what I can do.
<A1taiR> Hello2All
<A1taiR> I'm wondering: could you install Gimp on Ubuntu touch?
<ogra_> you cuold ... but you coldnt use it on the display
<ogra_> (you can install ssh and use it via "ssh -X" remotely)
<ogra_> there is no Xorg support in ubuntu touch ... so it cant run on the display server
<A1taiR> oh, I see
<A1taiR> Is there any way to draw on ubuntu touch?
<ogra_> write an app :)
<A1taiR> :)
<A1taiR> Will be there Xorg support ever?
<A1taiR> Maybe, announced
<ogra_> at some point once Mir is ready and enters the desktop
<ogra_> currently ubuntu touch uses surfaceflinger ... that will soon be replaced with Mir which will only support Qt in the beginning ...
<ogra_> for the move to the desktop there then will be XMir ... that will give you Xorg support
<A1taiR> I see
<A1taiR> Will it be compatible with Xorg applications?
<ogra_> yes
<A1taiR> Thanks!
<ogra_> but thats 14.04 material i think
<ogra_> so still far out
<A1taiR> ok
<ogra_> (the guys in #ubuntu-mir might have more details)
<shadeslayer> rsalveti: around?
<mhall119> kenvandine: do we have API docs for Friends and OnlineAccounts?
<AmEv> That's weird... I'm trying to add it, but Wiki's crashing when I try to log in....
<mhall119> AmEv: that's not relaly weird, the wiki is like that most of the time :)
<AmEv> Haha....
<AmEv> I have a U1 account, so I'm trying to use it.
<AmEv> Anyone willing to help me out?
 * mhall119 loves U1
<mhall119> AmEv: if I can, sure
<AmEv> Well, I'm trying to add another tablet to the WIP list.
<AmEv> Toshuba Thrive (AT100/105) Codename Antares.
<mhall119> ok, are you logged in?  It should have your username next to the "More Actions:" drop-down
<kenvandine> mhall119, not yet.. there are docstrings in the code
<AmEv> http://www.thriveforums.org/forum/pio_masaki-development/18090-wip-ubuntu-touch-thrive-development.html
<kenvandine> but i never figured out how to generate the docs
<kenvandine> i think i did generate them in qml-friends, but never built in a package
<AmEv> Dev is pio_masaki.
<mhall119> kenvandine: qdoc
<kenvandine> i borrowed the script from ubuntu-ui-toolkit
<AmEv> *Toshiba, not toshuba... haha
<kenvandine> mhall119, so basically i need to add the -doc package for qml-friends and probably tidy up the docstrings
<kenvandine> same for accounts-qml-module
<AmEv> Trying login once more....
<AmEv> OK, I'm logged into SSO, but when I'mtrying to Wikiize, it hangs....... argh....
<nik90> bzoltan1: ping
<bzoltan1> nik90: pong
<AmEv> Ther we go!
<nik90> bzoltan1: I wanted to ask you some question regarding TimeZone Data for the ubuntu-clock-app core apps
<bzoltan1> nik90:  shoot
<nik90> bzoltan1: Is there a common platform API I can use to get a list of all the timezones using qml? I basically need to provide that info to the user.
<nik90> bzoltan1: so basically the user chooses a city for instance new york and in return I need to display the time there
<AmEv> sigh... I was in, but changing pages logged me out....
<mhall119> kenvandine: when you have that, let me know so we can publish it to developer.u.c
<kenvandine> will do
<kenvandine> mhall119, can you pull that from packages in a PPA?
<AmEv> Wait...
<kenvandine> i don't think i'll be able to land that in raring
<nik90> bzoltan1: I have tried looking at tzdata where it lists all the timezones in the world but was hoping there was api already available for us to use
<mhall119> kenvandine: I think it takes some hacking on the script, I'll check with dpm
<AmEv> Haha... Refreshing the page helps!
<didrocks> 16:46:28      fginther | mterry, the only option that the daily release jobs look at under a project is 'daily_release' :-)
<didrocks> fginther: mterry -> target_branch as well
<didrocks> as we introduced it :)
 * fginther slaps head
<mhall119> ogra_: rsalveti: when will we switch the daily images to Raring?
<AmEv> It's in... How'd I do?
<bzoltan1> nik90:  I suggest to parse this -> http://qt-project.org/wiki/Qt-5-QTimeZone
<nik90> bzoltan1: will have a look at it
<nik90> bzoltan1: might I also ask if you have any information about obtaining the longitude and latitude (location of user) using API?
<nik90> bzoltan1: I need the long, lat to determine the sunrise and sunset time using an online API
<ogra_> mhall119, once there were enough tests to make sure that a) qunatal is good enough for demoing so we can freeze the last build and b) raring has no major regressions
<AmEv> Well, I'm hoping to have this on my Thrive soon!
<nik90> bzoltan1: on reading through QTimeZone, it seems that this is a concept being worked on and can only be expected in qt 5.1.
<Meizirkki> hi
<Meizirkki> If, when there is an ubuntu (the real one) booting on nexus devices, isn't is possible to use kexec to boot android
<Meizirkki> sort of dual boot
 * Meizirkki wishes to use android when ubuntu isn't fully fuctional
<Meizirkki> typos, grah
<Tassadar_> depends on the device, really
<Tassadar_> kexec usually tends to not work with android things
<Tassadar_> (the not modified, real kexec, there are patches which workaround some of the problems)
<Meizirkki> hmm
<Meizirkki> maybe the other way round? Boot android first, then kexec ubuntu if requested
<Tassadar_> that's not the point, ubuntu will use android's kernel anyway because drivers
<Meizirkki> I had an Nokia N810 few years back, and when an android image came around it was possible to boot Maemo from power button menu
<Meizirkki> But aren't people working on a "real" ubuntu image as well?
<Tassadar_> well yeah, but you need the drivers
<Tassadar_> and drivers are probably the problem - they just aren't written with kexec in mind, so usually it freezes halfway through, with pretty much no way to debug that
<Meizirkki> i see
<Tassadar_> it is possible to use something called kexec-hardboot, which adds real device reboot to kexec, so that drivers and devices are properly re-initialized
<Tassadar_> I have that working on nexus 7
<shadeslayer> nik90: bzoltan1there's http://api.kde.org/4.10-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kdecore/html/classKTimeZone.html
<shadeslayer> you could potentially a) make your app depend on libkdecore or b) copy headers
<shadeslayer> s/headers/code/
<Meizirkki> Tassadar_: okay
<Oranger> mhall119: Hi ! I'm free actually so if you want you can explain me the project, thanks you in advance
<rsalveti> shadeslayer: pong
<shadeslayer> sigh
<shadeslayer> rsalveti: I have good news and bad news
<shadeslayer> rsalveti: I got the kernel to boot and I could control the backlight from the initrd
<rsalveti> mhall119: ogra_: the call for testing will be out later today, so we can decide if we're able to switch to raring already
<rsalveti> if so, we'll probably switch tomorrow or later this week
<rsalveti> shadeslayer: right
<shadeslayer> but I still can't get a serial console up
<shadeslayer> ( using serial gadget )
<shadeslayer> nor can I get fbcon up
<rsalveti> ogra_: do you remember easily how to set up serial gadget to provide a terminal?
<ogra_> shadeslayer, did you dig for mali options in the console settings of your kernel config ?
<shadeslayer> ogra_: yes, I don't see anything obvious
<ogra_> rsalveti, just compile it in and set console=ttyGS0 ...
<shadeslayer> yeah, ^^ already tried like you told me a couple of hours ago :)
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> no magic involved ...
<ogra_> though probably your exynos doesnt like it builting (it doesnt matter on tegra) ... so you could try a module and load it from initrd
<ogra_> *builtin
<shadeslayer> hmmm
<shadeslayer> I'll try that
<mhall119> rsalveti: perfect, let me know when you put the call out and I'll help promote it
<shadeslayer> ogra_: fwiw : http://i.imgur.com/OYJXu7i.png && http://i.imgur.com/pRSymW5.png
<ogra_> whats that ?
<shadeslayer> mali GPU options that I can see
<ogra_> ?
<ogra_> oh
<ogra_> is that the Xorg kernel config ?
<rsalveti> mhall119: sure, sergiusens is taking care of that
 * ogra_ has never seen that 
<ogra_> hard to find any options there
<shadeslayer> that's from make xconfig :)
<ogra_> yeah
<shadeslayer> uses Qt
<ogra_> never used that in my life
<shadeslayer> :D
<ogra_> very bad to see the options this way
<shadeslayer> I used menuconfig earlier
<shadeslayer> but found xconfig to be easier to use
<shadeslayer> oh?
<ogra_> so what is "exynos video driver support" ?
<ogra_> did you try that ?
<shadeslayer> I have no idea, I've been searching, haven't found anything
<shadeslayer> I did not
<shadeslayer> I don't want to just randomnly enable modules :P
<ogra_> also Ion memory manager ... isnt that nvidia related ?
<ogra_> or does that refer to a different Ion
<shadeslayer> dunno, enabled by default, didn't bother unticking it
<ogra_> really, you should play with the options a bit,... be brave :)
<shadeslayer> haha
<ogra_> alos look at console support
<ogra_> might also miss options there
<ogra_> (under character devices iirc)
<shadeslayer> *facepalm*
<shadeslayer> CONFIG_X86_PLATFORM_DEVICES  -> y
<ogra_> fun
<Tassadar_> what does that even mean Oo
 * Tassadar_ googles
<shadeslayer> ogra_: the module is just called g_serial right?
<shadeslayer> so I modprobe g_serial on the device
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> from an initramfs-toolks hook or so
<shadeslayer> oh
<ogra_> and indeed make sure to have it in the initrd
<shadeslayer> I was going to put it in /init :P
<RobbyF> OT: Psy's new video hits 62 Million.
<JanC_test> RobbyF, is it as bad as the previous one?  :p
<RobbyF> JanC_test, yes
<boiko> mhall119: ping
<mhall119> boiko: pong
<mhall119> boiko: if this is about my package-fixes branch, I pushed the fix to Vcs-Bzr
<boiko> mhall119: ah yes, it was :)
<mhall119> :)
<mhall119> dalius pointed out to me that I was the blocker
<boiko> mhall119: ok, thanks for fixing it, I'll approve it as soon as CI finishes running
<mhall119> thanks boiko
<t1mp> aquarius: I added a question for you to this bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1166982
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1166982 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "Disabling the control in a ListItem should also disable clicks on the ListItem itself" [Critical,In progress]
<t1mp> maybe it is a question for design
<Oranger> mhall119: Are you back ?
<mhall119> Oranger: I am, yes
<mhall119> popey: you around?
<popey> ya
<Oranger> mhall119: cool :)
<popey> wassup?
<mhall119> popey: Oranger is going to be joining the Document Viewer project
<popey> excellent!
<popey> Welcome to the mad house
<Oranger> Hi popey !
<popey> er, development community
<mhall119> Oranger: first thing, before submitting any code, we need you to sign the contributor agreement: https://forms.canonical.com/contributor/
<Oranger> Ok I do it now
<mhall119> thanks
<mhall119> then, we have a spec and blueprint for this project
<mhall119> the spec is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/DocViewer
<mhall119> and the blueprint with work items to be done is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/DocViewer
<Oranger> Yes, I ahave already read it :)
<popey> brb, need to reboot to test new kernel
<Oranger> mhall119: Do I have to put your name on "Canonical Project Manager"
<Oranger> mhall119: Ok, I did it with your name
<mhall119> Oranger: that should be fine
<mhall119> I'll check with the person who processes those form submissions in the morning
<Oranger> So tomorrow ?
<mhall119> you can start contributing any time
<mhall119> I was just letting you know I would handle the rest
<mhall119> so we had one other developer who was interested in contributing ot this project, but there hasn't been any code written yet except the template branch that all of the Core Apps have been using
<mhall119> which is at lp:ubuntu-docviewer-app
<Oranger> Ok, i'm actually trying to clone the branch in my computer. Is there something in particular I need to know before touching the code?
<mhall119> only some QML and Javascript
<janimo> rsalveti, sergiusens is there anything needing  extra to be done when porting to a device using ICS blobs, that is not suported by CM/JellyBean?
<mhall119> Oranger: we're trying to stick with pure QML whenever possible, and if we need to write some C++ do that in a QML plugin in aseparate branch
<rsalveti> janimo: hm, might not work out of the box, as there might be api issues with the binary drivers from ics
<rsalveti> I know the cm codebase we're using supports ICS based blobs
<rsalveti> but you might still face issues with that
<janimo> rsalveti, ah, I thought this had been done before and there are workarounds
<rsalveti> like lack of symbol or such
<mhall119> Oranger: what is your Launchpad username?
<rsalveti> janimo: yeah, cm usually brings back the old symbols/apis to support older bins
<Oranger> My (new) username is "chocanto"
<janimo> rsalveti, any particular thing I need to do extra so the compat mode is activated, or is it taken care of by a regular build?
<rsalveti> janimo: that's why it might work, but it might also give you issues
<janimo> rsalveti, ok thanks
<mhall119> Oranger: thanks, I've added you to the development team
<mhall119> Oranger: the basic process for developing and submitting code is documented here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/DevelopmentGuide
<rsalveti> janimo: it should just work, the main problem is with the blobs
<janimo> rsalveti, right, but the blobs may be involved in graphics so affecting the UI bringup right?
<Oranger> mhall119: Ok, thanks.  Is there a feature you want to be added first ?
<mhall119> Oranger: the first thing I would like to see is the ability to display plain text files
<rsalveti> janimo: yup, but I saw already some devices working with ics based blobs, so it should work (at least the graphics part)
<rsalveti> unless your blob is doing something really weird
<janimo> rsalveti, thanks that is good to know
<mhall119> Oranger: ideally it would accept the file path as a command-line argument, we already know that will require some C++ code, and we're hoping to get that done by a more general purpose app-launcher
<Oranger> mhall119: Sound logical to me ^^
<Oranger> mhall119: The ubuntu-touch-core devs are not planning to find a way to use QML to get command-line arguments ?
<rsalveti> janimo: http://phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=CyanogenMod/android_frameworks_av.git;a=commitdiff;h=43926620689579fd45420955ebfc548ccf57a628;hp=864a653ee757c7236f1a221942850e9a554b2827
<rsalveti> janimo: one example of backporting an older api
<mhall119> Oranger: the Ubuntu SDK developers are already discussing the replacement of qmlscene with something else for running these QML-only apps
<mhall119> command-line argument parsing could be built into that
<mhall119> we can put together a small launcher for this project until they have that though, if necessary
<Oranger> mhall119: Ok nice
<sergiusens> jhodapp: mind looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/touch-preview-images/+bug/1169352
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1169352 in touch-preview-images "[camera] Taking photo with back camera inverts view" [High,Confirmed]
<rickspencer3> mhall119, jono_ http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/2013/04/introducing-inkcanvas.html
<jono_> rickspencer3, nice!
<mhall119> ah ha, grumpy cat with a mustache
<rickspencer3> mhall119, I'm happy to find collaborators for InkCanvas
<rickspencer3> if anyone needs that functionality, feel free to send them my way
<mhall119> will do
<rickspencer3> it seems like it could open up some more interactive apps
<mhall119> yeah, a finger-painting app for kids would be cool
#ubuntu-touch 2013-04-16
<rickspencer3> that should be relatively simple, for example
<rickspencer3> I could probably do that nowish ;)
<rickspencer3> put some colors along the bottom and set the opacity to like .8
<mhall119> that would probably get a lot of people's interest
<mhall119> lots of geek parents out there
<rickspencer3> mhall119, except, err ...
<rickspencer3> did you see the screenshot at the bottom of the blog posting?
<mhall119> yeah
<rickspencer3> apparently I am pretty good at breaking my system
<mhall119> does it do that when running in a desktop window too?
<mhall119> or just on a device?
<rickspencer3> mhall119, just on my Nexus 7
<rickspencer3> whenever I touch the context object of the canvas, that happens
<mhall119> could be hardware related
<mhall119> depending on how Qt's Canvas is accessing the screen
<mhall119> a bad driver or something
<rickspencer3> yeah
<rickspencer3> there are some settings on the canvas that I could play with
<rickspencer3> but would be better to have an engineer debug it
<mhall119> who on the phablet team has small children?
<jono_> mhall119, I think a finger painting app would be popular
<jono_> this reminds us, we need to discuss getting some of the cream of the crop of the apps on the default image too
<jono_> e.g. the stock tracking app
<mhall119> jono_: we're already started the process, we have a new PPA for those apps, and once we have installable packages bfiller and his team can review them for inclusion
<jono_> mhall119, oh awesome, nice work :-)
<jono_> mhall119, did you and discuss anything re. the app showdown while I was away?
<jono_> I really want to keep this momentum flowing
<mhall119> not regarding a contest no
<jono_> mhall119, ok, lets discuss this this week
<rickspencer3> mhall119, check out ...
<rickspencer3>             PaintPot
<rickspencer3>             {
<rickspencer3>                 height: paintPotSize
<rickspencer3>                 width: paintPotSize
<rickspencer3>                 color: Qt.rgba(1,1,0,.5)
<rickspencer3>                 onColorSelected: {inkCanvas.inkColor = selectedColor}
<rickspencer3>             }
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> mhall119, lp:~rick-rickspencer3/+junk/FingerPaint
<mhall119> that was fast
<mhall119> rickspencer3: wow, that's awesome
<mhall119> I can't believe that only took 20 minutes
<rickspencer3> mhall119, I made a slight change to make the background white
<rickspencer3> mhall119, well, it took me a little while longer to make the InkCanvas ;)
<rickspencer3> but yeah, good components = productivity
<mhall119> I can see InkCanvas being very useful
<mhall119> I wonder if it could be incorporated into the Notes app
<rickspencer3> mhall119, well, it's pure QML
<rickspencer3> so should be easy to give it a try
<rickspencer3> mhall119, should I put up a quick blog post about FingerPaint?
<rickspencer3> while I wait for my Nexus7 to update so I can try it there?
<mhall119> rickspencer3: yeah, and if you can give a description of the code and how it works, I'll link it on developer.u.c too
<rickspencer3> mhall119, which part of the code?
<rickspencer3> InkCanvas is a bit complicated
<mhall119> yeah, it probably is...
<mhall119> how about how to use InkCanvas, and just links to download InkCanvas itself
<rickspencer3> mhall119, sure
<rickspencer3> but not tonight
<rickspencer3> that will take me a bit longer
<rickspencer3> and ug ...
<rickspencer3> the touch screen calibration on my Nexus 7 is waaaay off
<mhall119> that's fine, I'm working on a blog post tonight already
<mhall119> man, we're on image 80 now? I haven't even flashed to 79 yet
<rickspencer3> hey mhall119if you do anything with FingerPaint, you might want to pull
<rickspencer3> I just deleted a ton of the code
<rickspencer3> :)
<ali> Anyone know if it's possible to flash ubuntu onto an LG Optimus G (Nexus 4 variant)
<mhall119> rickspencer3: nothing about FingerPaint it in tomorrow's blog, but I'll be happy to promote yours when it's posted
<mhall119> oh, you already posted it I see :)
<mterry> I can't run "autopilot run qml_phone_shell" in lp:unity/phablet... After failing a builddir path issue, all tests fail because they can't find autopilot interface.  Am I running it differently than I should?
<mterry> Saviq, ^
<mhall119> rickspencer3: wow, the calibration really is off on the N7
<mhall119> rickspencer3: if you want, I used james_w's work on pkgme to create packaging for your FingerPaint app: lp:~mhall119/+junk/FingerPaint
<sergiusens> mterry: you need to run in a real shell and not an adb shell
<dholbach> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning
<mardy> is there a tutorial or guide explaining how to setup pbuilder for Ubuntu Touch?
<seb128> mardy, ubuntu or ubuntu touch, should be only sources.list differences no?
<mardy> seb128: mostly yes, but I need to tell pbuilder to build for armhf
<pdey> Porting question: is having the kernel sources/config for the target device mandatory?  I'm trying to port Ubuntu Touch to a device with no sources, and CM10 hasn't been ported yet either.
<Namidairo> pdey: well considering that you need to change things in the defconfig, kernel sources would probably be plus :)
<pdey> Namidairo: are the chances of getting it running on the stock kernel .. slim-to-nil?
<Namidairo> it might run, but i suspect that the inbuilt browser won't work
<Namidairo> or the wifi in general
<pdey> I thought Ubuntu was running in a chroot though... wouldn't the wifi drivers,etc already be loaded by the outer Android part?
<Namidairo> "Without paranoid_network disabled, the browser won't work correctly"
<pdey> ah, right.
<pdey> shame there's no way to extract the config from a kernel binary
<pdey> though I presume even if I had the config, I'd need the glue or whatever to link in the proprietary modules
<Namidairo> modifying the zimage only gets you so far i think
<Namidairo> wouldn't it be easier to just ASK your manufacturer to give you the source...
<pdey> Funnily enough, I tried that... it's available under a NDA with a minimum order of...10,000 units.
<Namidairo> ...and what device is this
<pdey> Ainol Novo 7 Venus ... Actions ATM7029 SoC
<Mirv> lool: is the ubuntu-ui-toolkit upload for raring still planned, or will we rely on PPA updates only?
<nik90> mesq: ping
<lool> Mirv: hey; sorry, I think I got confused because we discussed setting up dailies and then I stopped thinking about uploading it
<lool> Mirv: I just took a look; the changes are fairly large, did this pass QA in some way?
<lool> Mirv: (I'm looking at .38...42)
<Mirv> lool: all merges are reviewed at least, and everyone uses now the 0.1.42 as it's in the PPA
<Mirv> for both precise, quantal and raring users
<Mirv> maybe the bzr417 would be a safe bet, ie when 0.1.42 was released to the PPA. there are three commits after that as well.
<Mirv> also the raring touch images used the PPA
<lool> Mirv: I'm fine taking r420 or r417; if r420 then we ought to bump the version number
<lool> (IIUC 0.1.42 was uploaded to the PPA with r417)
<Mirv> lool: I'd take r417 since it's released as defined by sdk team
<lool> Mirv: well, why don't I just take the PPA .dsc and sponsor that
<Mirv> lool: true, just fixing the jenkins auto-changelog is needed
<Mirv> hmm, it's also a native package it seems
<lool> Mirv: which auto-changelog would need fixing?
<Mirv> lool: removing the "Automatic build of revision 417" from dget https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/+archive/ppa/+files/ubuntu-ui-toolkit_0.1.42%7Eraring1.dsc
<lool> Mirv: if it needs any change, then it's probably better to have them in bzr and I sponsor from that, but that would suck in r420
<lool> I can't remove the changelog entry without repacking a tarball
<lool> oh well, nobody released a 0.1.42 tarball anyway
<Mirv> lool: so how about  lp:~timo-jyrinki/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/bzr417 ? I did bzr uncommit three times from trunk :)
<Mirv> either that or cleaning the jenkins added entry
<lool> Mirv: erf, I can do that (bzr co -r 417 BTW), I just wanted to avoid generating a new tarball
<Mirv> lool: right, well that's needed anyhow
<lool> but since I'd have to change the one from the PPA, I guess it's fine if I just rebuild from r417 or from the PPA source
<Mirv> because of the jenkins mangling
<lool> sorry it's bzr revert -r 417 not co
<didrocks> Mirv: after that release, do you mind preparing for daily release in S?
<didrocks> Mirv: then adding the stack to head and so on?
<lool> Mirv: uploaded r417 of lp:ubuntu-ui-toolkit
<lool> I compared to the PPA .dsc and the only delta was debian/changelog
<lool> (jenkins entry)
<Mirv> lool: just out of interested I checked manually what's the difference between pure 417 and the jenkins upload: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5712997/
<Mirv> lool: ok, great
<Mirv> didrocks: AFAIK I did all from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/InlinePackaging some weeks ago already to lp:ubuntu-ui-toolkit
<didrocks> Mirv: hum, it's a native package and I don't see the bootstrap commit
<Mirv> but I haven't got the big picture of what the daily release needs
<Mirv> ah, so that's missing
<didrocks> Mirv: if you wait to complete the guideline to make that more clear ^ :)
<didrocks> Mirv: before doing those changes, we should diverge between a raring branch and the new trunk, isn't it?
<Mirv> didrocks: I have a vague memory that I asked you or someone about the need to push that "/inline-packaging", and the answer was (maybe) that not needed since it's already native package or something. but certainly at least the "Getting it ready for autolanding" (bootstrapping) hasn't been done yet
<didrocks> Mirv: would be nice to not have a native package versionning scheme, just to follow all other packages we have
<Mirv> didrocks: yes we should
<didrocks> Mirv: I'm happy to revisit that later on, but at least, that enables to have real "upstream" tarballs
<didrocks> (without the debian/ dir)
<didrocks> Mirv: apart from that, just had a quick look, everything's fine :)
<didrocks> Mirv: once done, just ping me, we can add this together to the S branch ;)
<Mirv> ok, I'm pushing the raring branch first, then preparing a merge request for bootstrapping and non-native package
<didrocks> Mirv: excellent, you are creating a raring series?
<Mirv> didrocks: yes
<didrocks> sweet :)
<mhall119> sergiusens: have we put out a call for testing the raring images?
<mesq> hi nik90
<nik90> mesq: I just wanted to let you of the update to the bug report regarding the milliseconds when it was marked won't fix..
<nik90> but you fixed that :)
<nik90> it is being worked on by alessandro
<nik90> mesq: although when can one expect the visual designs for clock to be announced?
<mhall119> popey: ping
<nik90> mhall119, popey: were you able to run the autopilot test for clock-app successfully? If yes, I can merge the branch by renato into trunk.
<mhall119> nik90: I haven't tried it
<mhall119> nik90: what's the branch?
<nik90> mhall119: https://code.launchpad.net/~renatofilho/ubuntu-clock-app/autopilot/+merge/157982
<mhall119> nik90: hmmm, I'm getting merge conflicts
<nik90> mhall119: merge conflicts..ah I see it. I think that's because the branch is behind the recent trunk commits.
<nik90> I will ask renato to update branch
<nik90> mhall119: renato told me he will update his branch in another 1-2 mins :)
<mhall119> ok, it's not a bad conflict
<mhall119> nik90: how do I run the autopilot tests?
<nik90> mhall119: cd into the tests/autopilot folder
<nik90> mhall119: and then run "autopilot run clock_app"
<renato> nik90, mhall119 done
<mhall119> nik90: I get an error
<mhall119> RuntimeError: Unable to find Autopilot interface.
<nik90> mhall119: do you have autopilot-phablet and libautopilot-qt installed?
<mhall119> probably not
<nik90> mhall119: those two packages from the official autopilot ppa are required..although in my comp, the tests still fail
<mhall119> nik90: do you have a link to the PPA?
<nik90> mhall119: 1 min..let me find it
<mhall119> thanks, trying to get it from Raring's archives isn't working
<nik90> mhall119: sudo apt-add-repository ppa:autopilot/ppa
<mhall119> popey: do you have a few minutes to get me up to date on the conversation you had with the Trojita(imap client) devs?
<sergiusens> mhall119: not yet, we want to tag the quantal one before that and found a couple of bugs that don't look good on demos
<jaduncan_> Hi, is it possible to run X11 programs in UT somehow? I was wanting to try and run desktop Chromium.
<mesq> nik90: ok, the bug is good to go i think
<mhall119> jaduncan_: not currently, no
<ajalkane> jaduncan_: I'm under the impression UT runs on top of Canonical's new display driver (Mir) instead of X
<mhall119> ajalkane: it currently runs on top of Android's SurfaceFlinger, but will start using Mir soon
<ajalkane> mhall119: ok, thanks
<mhall119> there will be an XMir layer, capable of running X11 apps on Mir
<jaduncan_> ajalkane, mhall119: I wondered about a VNC app
<nik90> mesq: thnx..I have asked another developer to work on it...should be done by today hopefully
<jaduncan_> but that's admittedly a roundabout way to do it
<mhall119> jaduncan_: I'm sure some body could write a VNC app in Qt that will work without X11
<mesq> nik90: visuals handover might take a while, still. it's being explored as a whole. meaning across the suite of apps.
<nik90> mesq: ah ok..np
<jaduncan_> mhall119: I mean to connect to the X11 server with. I think this is currently too edge case a thing to do, and I have the desktop image of Ubuntu for the N7. I think I'll just have to try and heavily cut down the memory usage on that.
<mhall119> nik90: autopilot runs now
<mhall119> one test, and it passes
<nik90> mhall119: wait the clock-app test works for you?
<mhall119> yup
<nik90> mhall119: I get Traceback (most recent call last):
<nik90>   File "/home/krnekhelesh/Code/autopilot/tests/autopilot/clock_app/tests/test_clock.py", line 49, in test_label_value
<nik90>     self.assertThat(label.text, Eventually(NotEquals('')))
<nik90> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'text'
<nik90> and that the test ran but Failed
<nik90> mhall119: hmm really wierd...so to summarize this, the calculator app test works but clock app doesnt work on my comp...while the clock app test work on ur laptop
<nik90> :)
<mhall119> test isolation problem maybe?
<mhall119> nik90: do you have the latest SDK packages?
<nik90> mhall119: yeah I have the latest sdk packages..running 13.04 with all updates done
<nik90> mhall119: I told renato that I will look line by line to see what the change is between calculator and clock app tests to figure this
<mhall119> ok
<popey> mhall119: pong
<popey> yes, hangout?
<mhall119> popey: wanted to get caught up on the conversation you has with the Trojita devs
<mhall119> popey: I'm in one with dpm right now
<mhall119> maybe in 15-20 minutes?
<popey> sure
<mhall119> thanks
<ajalkane> mhall119: any template we should use in source files for copyrights?
<nik90> ajalkane: you should have a look at ubuntu-clock-app. Every qml, js, py file there includes the copyright. You can copy just that and modify it slightly like the Author's name to suit your application
<ajalkane> nik90: Thanks
<rickspencer3> mhall119, is there still an app developer mailing list?
<rickspencer3> jono, do you know? ^
<jono> rickspencer3, if there is, we don't use it any more much
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> thanks jono
<jono> rickspencer3, we generally point folks at Ask Ubuntu for support and the G+ community
<rickspencer3> jono, ok
<ogra_> (or the ubuntu-phone ML)
<rickspencer3> ogra_, yeah, that's why I was asking, wondering if it was ok to support that person writing their game on that mailing list
<rickspencer3> or if it was noise
<ogra_> i dont think its noise ...
<ogra_> people discuss apps there all the time
<rickspencer3> ogra_, thanks!
<ogra_> and popey and mhall119 make their app announcements there too
<rickspencer3> wfm
<rickspencer3> :)
<ogra_> :)
<davmor2> rickspencer3: this one ? ubuntu-app-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<ogra_> is that used much ?
<mhall119> popey: ready now?
<davmor2> ogra_: occasionally
<mhall119> rickspencer3: supporting people in the ML is fine, but if they ask questions in AskUbuntu it will help more people in the future
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: if you're around, I wanted to let you know that I kind of made the kernel/initrd work, and by kind of I mean I can change the brightness of the screen by writing values to files in  /sys/class/backlight/
<shadeslayer> ^ writing values from the init script that is
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: very good
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: can you share your initrd
<shadeslayer> sure, but its the standard initrd that you get in a armhf chroot
<ogra_> shadeslayer, still no success with a framebuffer console ?
<shadeslayer> I just added a call : echo 150 > /sys/class/backlight/pwm-backlight.0/brightness : at the beginning ( after it mounts sysfs and /proc )
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: ok got it
<shadeslayer> ogra_: I haven't pursued it today, was doing some paperwork
<ogra_> ah
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: the kernel config on the other hand is quite different
<ogra_> ancient stuff ...
<shadeslayer> indeed :P
<ogra_> paper ... i heard of that in my youth
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: I used the config that's in the recovery image
<shadeslayer> ogra_: apparently still used to file for visa's
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: ok, do you have the diff?
<shadeslayer> just used the one from recovery, should just work to let you change the brightness :P
<ogra_> shadeslayer, you travel to the wrong places (or from the wrong ones) :)
<shadeslayer> ogra_: rather, was born in the wrong country :P
<ogra_> or that
<shadeslayer> all the countries ( except a tiny tiny minority of them ) want a visa for Indians
<shadeslayer> there should be a passport classification : international, travel to any country in any part of the world :P
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: if you get fbcon going, that'd be superb :)
 * shadeslayer doesn't have time to look at it for a couple of days now
<sergiusens> didrocks: ping
<didrocks> sergiusens: pong
<rickspencer3> mhall119, kaleo is it possible to command a Tabs to select a specific tab?
<mhall119> rickspencer3: I think you can set a property on Tabs
<rickspencer3> grammatically, I mean, without user input?
<rickspencer3> mhall119, well, I want to select a tab on a buttons onClicked event
<sergiusens> didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~ps-jenkins/phablet-tools/latestsnapshot-0.9daily13.04.15ubuntu.unity.next-0ubuntu1/+merge/158832
<mhall119> rickspencer3: you can probably set selectedTab or selectedTabIndex on your Tabs component
<sergiusens> didrocks: that's my problem... between that and the prev one there are linked bugs and all but the changelog does not reflect that
<mhall119> that would, I assume, fire an onSelectedTabChanged handler of some kind to actually change the UI to the new tab
<didrocks> sergiusens: is it before rev 79 or after that one?
<rickspencer3> mhall119, ack, selectTab is read only, but select tab index works
<sergiusens> didrocks: 78 and 80 are daily builds, 79 has a bug linked
<didrocks> sergiusens: oh right, I don't list bugs on purpose for feature ppa
<didrocks> sergiusens: stuff that doesn't land on distro
<didrocks> sergiusens: they will be listed once they land on distro
<didrocks> sergiusens: it's part of the big discussion of "what to do with feature branch"
<mterry> fginther, is this a known issue: http://10.97.0.1:8080/job/cu2d-media-head-1.1prepare-mediaplayer-app/3/console ?
<fginther> mterry, I've never seen it before
<mterry> didrocks, ^
<fginther> mterry, is this a jibel scritp?
<mterry> fginther, so you landed the quantal CI branch I see
<didrocks> mterry: no, this is me, I fixed it and didn't rerun it as I thought we'll have the autopilot job fixed
<didrocks> mterry: which isn't the case
<mterry> fginther, what PPAs does that use?  (both as source and destination)
 * mterry realizes it's probably in config
<didrocks> fginther: I think we should really discuss about your CI configuration at the sprint
<didrocks> fginther: I see a lot of duplication and it's making the configuration file horrible to read
<fginther> mterry, I just restored it to match the existing jobs we had on the ci jenkins. some other job updates were needed
<fginther> mterry, so the ppas were the old ones until I can get the 'ppa:' value to work
<mterry> fginther, but notably, not the daily-build-next PPA I see.  So we are going to get out of sync (like the HUD in daily-next is 2.0, but HUD in phablet-team is 1.0)
<fginther> mterry, I need to examine this for a moment
<sergiusens> didrocks: well we probably should or people are going to start complaining
<didrocks> sergiusens: it's just a flag, but this has consequences when upload to distro, that's why I want that to be discussed before
<didrocks> sergiusens: and notice that bugs won't be closed, just listed
<didrocks> sergiusens: what is closing the bugs is launchpad
<didrocks> during an upload to distro
<didrocks> as there is no "touch" product
<didrocks> sergiusens: if you want, we can discuss that tomorrow over a hangout
<sergiusens> rsalveti: that's the explanation ^^
<sergiusens> didrocks: yes please... we create changlogs for everyday and construct the weekly communication with the changelog entries
<didrocks> sergiusens: ok, discussing that tomorrow? I won't have time today (in a meeting and then leaving)
<didrocks> sergiusens: I need to rethink, there were multiple good reasons to not list them
<didrocks> sergiusens: so I need to draw a map :)
<sergiusens> didrocks: yes, let's hangout tomorrow
<sergiusens> didrocks: it might turn out to be acceptable loss until we land in distro
<didrocks> sergiusens: yeah, I want to ensure I'm listing every consequences, but for that, I need a fresh brain ;)
<rsalveti> sergiusens: right
<rsalveti> sergiusens: the problem is telling what actually changed in an automatic way
<rsalveti> as the changlog will be kind of useless
<mterry> sergiusens, were you working on the branch to add autopilot dep packages to the cu2d configs?
<didrocks> ogra_: btw, from your image you are shipping the ffmepg codec
<didrocks> ogra_: which is not very cool, can you help sil2100 and renato on that one?
<ogra_> didrocks, how do you mean ?
<mterry> didrocks, do you know what happened to the branch to add autopilot dep packages to the cu2d configs?
<ogra_> didrocks, which image ?
<didrocks> ogra_: ffmepg is shipped through the media-app
 * ogra_ isnt aware of any ffmpeg 
<didrocks> gstreamer0.10 ffmepg codec
<ogra_> didrocks, well, i dont have anty access to the OBS system, talk to sergiusens or rsalveti ... i'm working on the distro builds
<ogra_> unless they finally switched to use our seeds
<sil2100> Adding this to auto-join
<fginther> mterry, I'm working on changes to add the stack ppa, so hopefully we'll only be out of sync for another day or two.
<didrocks> sergiusens: rsalveti ^
<mterry> fginther, ok
<didrocks> ogra_: I thought you have deep knowledge of the image, sorry :)
<ogra_> if thats in our seeds i'll happily change it though :)
<ogra_> didrocks, not of the black hole that the OBS image build system is
<ogra_> didrocks, ask me anything about official builds :)
<didrocks> ogra_: I think it's a dep of the media-app
<didrocks> isn't it sil2100?
<sil2100> gstreamer-ffmpeg?
<ogra_> didrocks, i think thats actually jhodapp|bbiab country
<didrocks> sil2100: yep, what's pulling it?
<sil2100> didrocks, ogra_: the mediaplayer-app package has a hard dep on it
<sil2100> gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg
<ogra_> right, jhodapp then
<sil2100> I poked renato about that, since he's one of the devs there, so I had a chat about the usage of that
<sil2100> And as mentioned on a different channel, they're using it for thumbnail creation for now because of the various codecs it supports
<ogra_> if it is only used for that, whats wrong with having it ?
<ogra_> or does it get in your way anyhow ?
<ogra_> (seems to be fine license wise)
<sil2100> Well, it's in universe, so we'll be pulling universe deps for a main package - also didrocks mentioned that the license seems to be confusing?
<ogra_> erm
<ogra_> nearly everything of touch is currebntly in universe :)
<didrocks> ogra_: we can't ship it, it's having some codecs that are legally weird
<didrocks> ogra_: it's like vlc
<ogra_> and if it is in universe the lic3ense needs to be fine
<ogra_> didrocks, if they were actually legally weird that package would be in multiverse
<ogra_> unless someone made a fatal error nobody noticed over the last years
<didrocks> ogra_: do you mind checking with the release/security team? for me always ffmepg always was -> danger
<didrocks> ogra_: that would be helpful, I'm not fully knowledgeable about this, but seb128 confirmed as well
<seb128> ogra_, the issue is not license, it's patents
<ogra_> well, i'd like to leave it to the guys that depend on it ... after all they will need a MIR in S
<ogra_> seb128, aha ! thats different :)
<sil2100> Same here, not really super knowledgable about that,
<seb128> ogra_, still a good reason to not have it on the CD
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> well, tallk to jhodapp ... he maintains the media stack afaik
<sil2100> ogra_, didrocks: maybe we could ask the mediaplayer-app guys to rewrite it that it would Suggest -ffmpeg -> if not installed, no thumbnails would be available
<ogra_> (but really dont worry about usniverse vs main atm, that will only become relevant once everything can be built from the archive)
<didrocks> sil2100: ok, let's add everything, can you add a big warning for the mediaplayer-app in the spreasheet and starts the conversation?
<ogra_> (jhodapp seems to be back  soon, i saw him saying ~1h in another channel, just wait fior him)
<ogra_> might be it is easy to just drop it ... who knows
<sil2100> Ok
 * ogra_ has no clue about multimedia :) i'm just the image build bitch 
<sil2100> As mentioned before, I had a talk with renato and he said something like: "maybe I can use other gst codes but I am not sure, and depends of what kind of video the user want to play"
<ogra_> well, dont we support video thumbnails in the desktop today ?
<ogra_> what does nautilus use atm ?
<ogra_> seb128, ^^
<seb128> ogra_, totem-video-thumbnail
<seb128> totem-video-thumbnailer
<ogra_> and what does that use in the back ?
<seb128> gstreamer
<ogra_> there must be soem gst
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> i think the mediaplayer should just use what we use today ... so wont need a MIR etc
<ogra_> not sure how much work that is
<didrocks> sil2100: ok, approved, let's deploy that tomorrow, ok?
<sil2100> didrocks: oh, ok ;) Let's see if we can get it removed as well
<sil2100> Thanks!
<didrocks> sil2100: indeed :)
<didrocks> sil2100: thanks for the note on the spreadsheet :)
<tintin> hi frnds
<rickspencer3> mhall119, bzoltan1 is there a magic setting that I need to debug QML?
<tintin> hello.. anybody thre
<rickspencer3> hi tintin
<rickspencer3> s'up?
<tintin> hi rick
<tintin> is it possible to instll ubuntu mbl on n 900?
<tintin> hello
<mhall119> !devices | tintin
<ubot5> tintin: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<mhall119> if the n900 is listed there, there should be a link to instructions for installing Ubuntu Touch on it
<tintin> rick..its nt listd there
<tintin> tx for the help
<ogra_> the n900 is definitely not powerful enough
<jhodapp> ogra_, back
<ogra_> jhodapp, sil2100, seb128 and didrocks had some concerns about using ffmpeg
<ogra_> seems there are possible patent issues with using it
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> Regarding mediaplayer-app
<jhodapp> ogra_, yeah, as someone above mentioned, we're using it for creating previews
<jhodapp> ogra_, however, we have nearly every license paid for and officially licensed is what I was told
<mpt> Just posted initial design for accessing SIM services: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhoneApp#Settings
<ogra_> jhodapp, well, talk to the guys complaining :)
<jhodapp> ogra_, lol...and this might get tricky...there could potentially be that we can ship certain things with a phone or tablet but not on the desktop
<sil2100> jhodapp: maybe we could somehow make it a loose-requirement?
<sil2100> i.e. if it's there, use it - if not, maybe disable previews or use something different?
<jhodapp> sil2100, I can't answer that, that's up to the design team
<bzoltan1>  rickspencer3:  not as I know. Just use the "Debug" menu items... you can set a breakpoint to your code and do the normal debugging
<sil2100> jhodapp: who from design should I poke for some answers? Is JohnLea the right person? ;)
<rickspencer3> bzoltan1, I clicked on projects in QtCreator and changed the debugger port to a different port, and it started working
<rickspencer3> sil2100, what's it concerned?
<bzoltan1> rickspencer3:  that is good :) for me it works out of box
<jhodapp> sil2100, I'd poke Calum
<rickspencer3> bzoltan1, are there any XmlListModel mavens?
<sil2100> rickspencer3: hi! So, the thing is that mediaplayer-app currently is using gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg to generate the previews (thumbnails), while we would prefer not to require gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg if we are to ship the mediaplayer-app and others by default
<rickspencer3> I'm struggling to make what looks like simple xml parsing to work
<jhodapp> sil2100, and if necessary, he'll poke someone else...certainly from a technical perspective your idea is possible, but we shouldn't just try to solve this via technical means in my opinion as it is a legal problem to solve
<sil2100> Since we would basically have to ship gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg by default - so I've been wondering if we could somehow disable thumbnails or something when it's not installed
<sil2100> jhodapp: ok, thanks!
<rickspencer3> sil2100, calum and johnlea are both on my list of contacts for core apps
<bzoltan1> rickspencer3:  zsombi I would suggest to ask... but he is off already
<rickspencer3> so, yeah, what jhodapp said
<sil2100> rickspencer3: thanks, will poke them ;)
<jhodapp> thanks rickspencer3
 * rickspencer3 shakes fist at XmlListModel
<ogra_> for convergence it needs to be the same on phone and desktop
<rickspencer3> it easy when it works, but when it doesn't work, it's really hard to debug
<jhodapp> ogra_, exactly
<ogra_> so we need a solution thts legal
<rickspencer3> kaleo, bzoltan1 the Tabbed application project template is awesome
<jhodapp> ogra_, supposedly there's a list of the codecs that Ubuntu can legally ship somewhere that we have officially licensed...I haven't been able to find that
<ogra_> yeah
<sil2100> jhodapp, ogra_: could you guys take a look into that?
<ogra_> theoretically all thats in main is freely usable
<t1mp> jppiiroi1en: ^ :)
<t1mp> rickspencer3: I think jp did those templates
<rickspencer3> jppiiroi1en, o/
<rickspencer3> :)
<jhodapp> sil2100, look into what part exactly?
<t1mp> jppiiroi1en: indeed, I'm checking it now, and great stuff to get started with :)
<sil2100> jhodapp: if we can freely and legally use gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg with no problem (and the codecs that are provided by it)
<jhodapp> sil2100, yeah, it's on my list of tasks somewhere :)
<sil2100> I'll try to poke design about possible workarounds tomorrow, as I see everyone is EOD already
<jhodapp> sil2100, this is always tricky, wish it wasn't
<sil2100> jhodapp: big t
<sil2100> big thanks
<sil2100> (unexpected enter press!)
<sil2100> ;)
 * rickspencer3 gives up and uses json
<jhodapp> sil2100, np
<mterry> What is the correct way to run autopilot tests in trunk?
<mterry> (In unity/phablet trunk I mean)
<mterry> sil2100, Saviq ^
<mzanetti> mhall119: hey! Whats the proposed way of publishing packages for my apps if the code is not hosted on launchpad?
<mzanetti> mhall119: too early to really release something. but I'd like to have at least a ppa where snapshots can be easily installed on the devices
<pmcgowan> mzanetti: do you have a debian source package?
<pmcgowan> there is an apps ppa
<mzanetti> pmcgowan: yes... I have packaged stuff up
<rsalveti> ogra_: I think the issue with ffmpeg is just that we might not want it in main due security and maintenance issues
<rsalveti> but I believe the license should be ok
<mzanetti> pmcgowan: should I just dput it to the apps ppa?
<pmcgowan> mzanetti: PPA is https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/collection
<pmcgowan> I'd say so
<ogra_> rsalveti, well, desktop team complained about possible patent issues
<mzanetti> pmcgowan: ok, I'll give it a shot, thanks
<rsalveti> ogra_: right
<rsalveti> ogra_: that's hard to fix, and don't think we have any replacement for that
<ogra_> right
<rsalveti> to be used in a clean and patent-free way
<ogra_> but we need something that works on the desktop as well
<pmcgowan> trying to remember this conversation
<rsalveti> we're probably violating patents all around :-)
<mhall119> mzanetti: if you can give popey or I link to the source package, we can upload it to the PPA
<ogra_> haha
<pmcgowan> is the issue only related to certain decoder implementations?
<rsalveti> hello world probably violate patents
<pmcgowan> I though ffmpeg itself was ok
<ogra_> yeah, looking forward to be sued by apple :P
<rsalveti> thought so as well
<ogra_> pmcgowan, gstreamer-ffmpeg is bundled
<pmcgowan> I assume thats just a plugin for gstreamer
<ogra_> it contains a huge amount of en/decoders
<pmcgowan> oh
<ogra_> it is
<ogra_> apt-cache show gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg
<rsalveti> jhodapp: is there a way to not use ffmpeg?
<popey> ffmpeg has been discussed by the techboard in the past
<ogra_> look at that output and cry :)
<mzanetti> mhall119: I have pushed the debian package structure to the git repository. so all it takes is to clone it and run debuild somehow on it. is that enough for you or do you need the already built source package?
<rsalveti> popey: and what was the conclusion?
<jhodapp> rsalveti, probably, I didn't design the preview code
<popey> reject
<pmcgowan> wow
<ogra_> rsalveti, totem-thumbnailer apparently works on the desktop today ... i guess if our mediaplayer can mimic what it does it would be ok
<rsalveti> ogra_: right
<popey> iirc
<pmcgowan> rsalveti: ogra_ why are we talking about ffmpeg anyway
<rsalveti> jhodapp: who is taking care of that? renato?
<pmcgowan> needs to read back
<ogra_> pmcgowan, because we depend on it in phablet :)
<rsalveti> pmcgowan: needed to generate thumbnails at the media-app
<pmcgowan> hmm
<ogra_> pmcgowan, mediaplayer-app uses it for thumbnailing
<popey> i thought we'd sufficiently stripped ffmpeg of the problematic items
<popey> which is why we have so many libav* packages and libav*-extra ones
<ogra_> popey, its sufficient for universe
<pmcgowan> popey: thats definitely possible
<popey> (it's libav these days, not ffmpeg fwiw)
<ogra_> popey, but that doesnt make it patent free or easy to maintain security wise
<popey> sure
<jhodapp> rsalveti, yes
<rickspencer3> mhall119, hey, can you please paste me a link to your reddit app code
<rickspencer3> I am terrible at making nice looking ListViews :/
<nik90> rickspencer3: https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/+junk/uReadIt
<rickspencer3> thanks nik90
<nik90> np
<mhall119> rickspencer3: https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/+junk/uReadIt
<mhall119> ah, nik90 beat me to it
<rickspencer3> thanks mhall119
<rickspencer3> lol
<nik90> mhall119:  hehe
<mhall119> rickspencer3: there's some code that isn't committed yet, around HUD and sharing
<rickspencer3> mhall119, ok
<rickspencer3> I'm just looking for help formatting a ListView of articles and stuff
<rickspencer3> I'm working on a Yahoo! local app
<rickspencer3> I have all the data and the tabs set up
<rickspencer3> I just can't make it look good at all :)
<mhall119> rickspencer3: look at ArticleListItem.qml then, it's my derived component
<rickspencer3> that's right where I am ;)
<mhall119> mzanetti: that should be enough, where is the git repo?
<mzanetti> mhall119: http://gitorious.org/xbmcremote/xbmcremote
<mhall119> thanks
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: rsalveti ogra_ so I have http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/243/builds/42217/testcases
<sergiusens> same for mako, grouper and maguro
<sergiusens> given those two prior quantal bugs, what's the plan?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: what is that exactly
<pmcgowan> the smoketest results?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: the community tests
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: not run yet though
<pmcgowan> ok
<ogra_> sergiusens, looks fine ... will it be attached to the pending/ current/ moving ?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: with hand holding steps http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1543/info
<ogra_> or is that just to give the community a checklist
<sergiusens> ogra_: today it's a call for test... then it's going to be attached to whatever practice is already used in distro but following a 2 week cadence https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cadence
<sergiusens> ogra_: we need to also talk about /pending /current with plars
<ogra_> in distro nothing is actually used anymore since we expect automated testing :)
<ogra_> the iso tracker is for manual community tests
<sergiusens> ogra_: ack..
<sergiusens> ogra_: well I'll find it hard to test telephony et.al. in an automated fashion
<sergiusens> ogra_: best is to crowdsource
<mhall119> not there's an interesting idea, I suppose you could connect a bit of testing hardware to a modem and have it listen for a call
<ogra_> sergiusens, ++
<mhall119> or just pick a number at random from the company directory, call it and say "press 1 if you can here this, otherwise pres 493829404817849e7"
<sergiusens> mhall119: heh... how about "Network Busy", or "Missed Call"
<sergiusens> mhall119: that's just telephony, then there's the bug I found yesterday, on manta, after a photo is taken, the view is inverted when in landscape
<plars> sergiusens: don't forget 911 testing :)
<plars> sergiusens: actually, from what I've read, that's not a *huge* ordeal to setup, provided you have a valid reason (and we do)
<mhall119> sergiusens: camera isn't even working on grouper
<plars> mhall119: that's been the case for quite a while
<mhall119> I know
<sergiusens> mhall119: none of the core devs have a grouper device, that's why ;-)
<sergiusens> plars: mhall119 ogra_ I guess I am biased to what I read in How Google Test Software when the talk about Android...
<plars> sergiusens: which part exactly?
<mhall119> sergiusens: I'm more than happy to help the core devs with testing on mine
<sergiusens> plars: the part where everything is automated, except Android testing... it's all manual
<mhall119> you can promote me to a core dev, if you think that'll speed things up :)
<plars> sergiusens: not really *all* of their android is manual is it?
<sergiusens> plars: let me pull up my kindle annotations
<sergiusens> plars: http://ubuntuone.com/0Mo3ZXxiWryvphgCFUAa1o http://ubuntuone.com/25Q65nHJgM0hqmYRoG6eKT http://ubuntuone.com/557JZkkmb9Q5bE7vuY5J4I
<renato> pmcgowan, jhodapp, rsalveti about the ffmepg discussion I can try replace it with others codes
<jhodapp> renato, using Qt to do the still image generation?
<renato> jhodapp, do you think that qtmultimedia is ready to do that?
<renato> jhodapp, you can try use others gstreamer plugins
<jhodapp> renato, I'm not sure, never tried such a thing
<renato> jhodapp, we tried it in the spring in Boston, do you remember?
<jhodapp> renato, yes
<renato> jhodapp, but for some reason android api did not work
<jhodapp> renato, oh that's right, I forgot about that
<mhall119> fginther: is there a way to tell Jenkins not to auto-land code into a branch if the author hasn't signed the CLA?
<jhodapp> renato, the map() function
<renato> jhodapp, the quick way is try different gst codes
<jhodapp> renato, yeah, I'm not going to have time to try that any time soon, you have any spare cycles?
<sergiusens> mhall119: those don't get built by default...
<renato> jhodapp, yes I can do that right know
<mhall119> sergiusens: ?
<jhodapp> renato, cool
<sergiusens> mhall119: non CLA committers
<renato> jhodapp, the problem is that we can not use multiverse packages. correct?
<fginther> mhall119, not at this time, please see: https://bugs.launchpad.net/jenkins-launchpad-plugin/+bug/1134428
<ubot5> Error: launchpad bug 1134428 not found
<mhall119> thanks fginther
<mhall119> sergiusens: I was asking in reference to the Core Apps projects
<jhodapp> renato, apparently universe
<jhodapp> renato, has to come from main
<sergiusens> mhall119: yeah, I guess you want to push for this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/jenkins-launchpad-plugin/+bug/1134428
<renato> ok lets see which gst codecs we have on the main repository
<mhall119> fginther: sergiusens: LP says there's no such bug
<fginther> mhall119, oh, it's private
<sergiusens> mhall119: try again
<sergiusens> mhall119: it was private, no need for it to be
<mhall119> thanks, is that being worked on?
<fginther> mhall119, I don't see any branches for it yet
<mhall119> ok
<fginther> mhall119, we'll see if we can get someone working on this. I understand it's a big deal for the core apps
<mhall119> thanks fginther
<mterry> mzanetti, thanks for the lightdm branch review!  I've updated it now to fix issues
<mzanetti> mterry: ack
<mterry> mzanetti, so why can't we launch env btw?
<mterry> does launch_test_application inspect arg[0] and do something with it?
<mzanetti> mterry: maybe just env would have worked but not "env" as in that case it expects an executable called env. don't know exactly whats happening on the inside of autopilot
<mterry> mzanetti, env should be a valid executable.  But whatever, I fixed it another way
<mzanetti> mterry: oh... right... didn't know that... but in that case autopilot expects env to publish the autopilot D-Bus interface
<mterry>  mzanetti, but I figured it would via its sub-executable...  ::shrug::
<mzanetti> mterry: probably it should, yeah... you might want to report a bug.
<mterry> mzanetti, launch_test_application might very well be inspecting its arguments though
<mterry> mzanetti, that comes from Qt, didn't dive into its exact behavior
<moocow1452> Hello everybody!
<sergiusens> awe_: building the whole thing for the galaxy s and going to report back
<FelipeDuarte> Hi guys.
<Oranger> Hi FelipeDuarte
<FelipeDuarte> Can I install ubuntu touch in my motorola xoom verizon model? I can patiente for my english, I still learn
<Oranger> Apparently yes : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
 * genii-around looks around for smartboyhw
<FelipeDuarte> Thanks Oranger. :)
<Oranger> FelipeDuarte ;)
<Oranger> FelipeDuarte: Report all bugs you will find !
<FelipeDuarte> sure :)
<moocow1452> Does this mean anything to anyone?
<moocow1452> build/core/combo/select.mk:60: build/core/combo/TARGET_linux-armv7-a-neon.mk: No such file or directory
<SonikkuAmerica> Does Ubuntu Touch's calling feature only work with GSM phones thus far?
<rsalveti> SonikkuAmerica: yup
<SonikkuAmerica> Dang... a friend of mine might've been interested... he has a Razr HD... but it's a CDMA phone. (Verizon)
<mhall119> yeah, being on Verizon sucks for phones
 * mhall119 knows
<SonikkuAmerica> AT&T is America's only reputable GSM carrier (T-Mobile is mainly HSPA+ now)
<SonikkuAmerica> And America thinks they stink.
<rickspencer3> mhall119, is there any kind of location service built into the SDK yet?
<moocow1452> Any idea what the hangup is? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5714506/
<moocow1452> Hello, anyone know how to fix a build in the room? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5714506/
<achiang> sergiusens: hey, if i want the latest and greatest bits for a maguro, is it simply just calling phablet-flash?
<achiang> sergiusens: would that be raring?
<achiang> rsalveti: ^^
<rsalveti> achiang: raring is not yet the default
<rsalveti> it'll grab the latest, but still based on quantal
<rsalveti> we're about to switch, but still need to fix a few issues
<achiang> rsalveti: any benefit going to raring? or safer to just stick w/quantal for now?
<rsalveti> achiang: we want to be closer to the archive as we want to start pushing our stuff to s-series once it's open
<achiang> rsalveti: makes sense, thanks
<sergiusens> achiang: phablet-flash if you have the raring package... the daily releases sort of messed up my releaser for the other series and need to do it manually (haven't done it still)
<achiang> sergiusens: np, i'll just grab quantal
<achiang> thanks
<mhall119> rickspencer3: there's QtLocation from upstream, I'm not sure how it works though, or if the current images support it
<rickspencer3> hey mhall
<rickspencer3> interesting
<rickspencer3> are their QML bindings for it?
<mhall119> rickspencer3: I see qtdeclarative5-qtlocation-plugin in raring, but can't find the docs on http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtdoc/modules-qml.html
<rickspencer3> mhall119, yeah
<rickspencer3> let me poke at it
<Oranger> mhall119: I made a launcher in C++ for docviewer, it's temporary.
<mhall119> rickspencer3: bzoltan1 might know where docs are
<mhall119> Oranger: awesome!  Not too difficult to get it passing file paths to the QML I hope
<rickspencer3> mhall119, well, I'm mostly just skeptical that it's supported yet
<Oranger> mhall119: Oh and I found a way to open plain text direclty in QML with XMLHttpRequest, but for other files we will need to use C++ to open the files
<Oranger> mhall119: Hum actually I can't achieve this, I don't know why but it don't work. Maybe i'm doing something bad I don't know
<Oranger> mhall119: Me idea was to create a new property called commandLineArgument from C++ to QML
<Oranger> *my
<Oranger> But this property seem to be undeclared for QML... so I have to work on it
<mhall119> Oranger: sounds like a good approach
<mhall119> XMLHttpRequest probably won't work for local files
<Oranger> mhall119: XMLHttpRequest It is working for me ^^
<Oranger> -it
<mhall119> oh, I misunderstood then
<Oranger> mhall119: But in the futur we will not use it :/ Only c++ can open file, not QML+JS
<rickspencer3> Oranger, mhall119 I think the plan is for the SDK to provide a safe file browser
<rickspencer3> like a service that lets applications open files
<mhall119> rickspencer3: yeah, I believe jdstrand and his team were going to do something along those lines
<mhall119> I didn't think it was going to be built into the SDK though
<rickspencer3> right
<mhall119> jdstrand: thoughts?
<rickspencer3> it's part of the app isolation specification
<mhall119> right, though when it was initially discussed we were still thinking in terms of python and Gtk
<rickspencer3> indeed, but I am pretty certain they have moved on
<mhall119> this actually sounds like a better opportunity for us, since we don't have to get people to un-learn how to access files in QML
<Oranger> rickspencer3: Oh good
<mhall119> Oranger: I'll have a chat with jdstrand about long-term solutions, in the mean time we can put this in place for the doc viewer
<mhall119> and change it once something better is available
<Oranger> mhall119: Ok, sound good
<Oranger> So, i'm sorry but I have to go
<mhall119> Oranger: I'm wondering if it would be easier to sub-class MainView in Qt, add the command line properties and methods for opening/reading files onto that, and use the sub-classed component in the QML
<Oranger> (1:28 am here ouch)
<mhall119> Oranger: no problem, we'll chat later
<Oranger> Hum yes, you have a good idea mhall119
<moocow1452> Anyone good with mkimage?
<Oranger> mhall119: But why not create a class only made for IO ?
<Oranger> -IO +opening
<mhall119> Oranger: it just sounds like more work than is necessary, if we're going to replace it with something else later
<Oranger> mhall119: Yes, I understand
<Oranger> So bye mhall119 , we'll talk later !
<mhall119> g'night Oranger
#ubuntu-touch 2013-04-17
<andoriyu> hey, so it developer preview usable on daily basis?
<RobbyF> correct.
<RobbyF> oops, thought you said unusable
<andoriyu> that is a shame
<RobbyF> no data yet.
<lilstevie> andoriyu it is only a preview at this stage
<RobbyF> I suppose you could use it just for phone and basic browsing/gmail
<andoriyu> is there any eta on when it goes public (i.e. first phone released) ?
<RobbyF> since nobody is speaking i'll share what i think i know. phone can be used as a daily driver by 13.10 release (oct) and a year from now is expected phone release.
<RobbyF> lots of growth and changes between now and then.
<andoriyu> I see
<RobbyF> some people are using it now as a daily device however. only using it in wifi areas ect.
<andoriyu> I'm just thinking about buying nexus 4 just for ubuntu touch
<RobbyF> I have a friend looking to sell one. canada only though
<moocow1452> ?join #ubuntu
<andoriyu> and that thing when you use phone as a pc is not yet available aslo?
<andoriyu> also*
<RobbyF> not yet available.
<andoriyu> thanks
<lilstevie> andoriyu desktop convergence is not planned to be included to 14.04
<lilstevie> that last to should be until
<andoriyu> I see
<Kawobei_work> Hey I just loaded touch on a nexus 10
<Kawobei_work> how do I make a user, I can only get into the guest account
<mhall119> Kawobei_work: that may be all that's working right now
<mhall119> a lot of functionality is using mock data for demonstration purposes
<Kawobei_work> oh so we cant get to settings to add a hidden wireless network or anything
<Kawobei_work> can only access the guest account is normal then?
<mhall119> Kawobei_work: you can get to the terminal with a USB cable, then the sky's the limit
<mhall119> but as far as the GUI goes, there's still a lot that's not finished
<Kawobei_work> ok, sorry I thought it was alot further along
<mhall119> Kawobei_work: some of it is, some of it isn't
<mhall119> some of it is functional as far as the display and user interaction goes, but is populated with mock data until a working backend is made
<Kawobei_work> ok, thank you.
<jose__> hi
<Kawobei_work> hi
<moocow1452> Stuck on Uimage in my build. http://paste.ubuntu.com/5714772/
<GTKoolAidSMan> Hey I was wondering if anyone knows how to create an android backup file
<dholbach> good morning
<alol> Hi! I can't install qt 5 qml particles on Nexus 7. I can't find the package with apt-cache. Does anybody know if it will be available anytime soon?
<nsplit> i'm using a lxde the last year in my mobile&tablet
<nsplit> but is not compiled with egl
<nsplit> is this ubuntu version compiled with egl support? what about xorg+egl?
<rsalveti> ogra_: http://phablet.ubuntu.com/export/
<rsalveti> still building so not completely sure it's a working snapshot, but it should :-)
 * rsalveti -> zzz
<ogra_> rsalveti, wow, thanks !
<nik90> mesq: we have an issue implementing https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-clock-app/+bug/1163855
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1163855 in Ubuntu Clock App "[clock app] Stopwatch needs to show 1/100th of a second in the label for better accuracy" [Medium,In progress]
<nik90> mesq: I have explained the problem in the bug report. Need design decision.
<mesq> nik90: wow that's an interesting limitation
<nik90> mesq: yeah I was suprised to read the official qml documentations to find this limitation
<mesq> nik90: i'd say let's do 1/10 s then
<mesq> nik90: that'd be the accuracy of manual timing anyway :)
<mesq> nik90: but it's a shame because people are used to 1/100 s everywhere else
<nik90> mesq: so then the format will be mm:ss:cs (01:50:80)
<nik90> mesq: true, but maybe we will find something faster later
<mesq> nik90: can we drop the last zero then, since it's not carrying any information?
<nik90> mesq: yeah, u read my mind
<mesq> nik90: i'll have a quick look at the layout. maybe the 1/10s could be in superscript / subscript or something. will have to see
<mesq> nik90: :)
<nik90> mesq: sure, let me know when you have decided on the final design look
<mesq> nik90: i will look at it asap. thanks again!
<nik90> mesq: np
<alol> is it possible to get qt5 qml particles plugin on nexus 7 with ubuntu touch?
<mzanetti> alol: did you try to "apt-cache search qtdeclarative5-particles-plugin" ?
<afunix> Guys, does anyone happen to know if it is possible to bind C++ and QML code together on Ubuntu Phone?
<afunix> QDeclarativeView is absent
<afunix> QtQml is absent too..
<nik90> afunix: it should definitely be possible by implementing a separate C++ plugin
<nik90> afunix: for the ubuntu touch, we stick to qml, javascript
<nik90> afunix: C++ is a last resort
<afunix> nik90: but there is no documentation on that on wiki.ubuntu.com. All apps are pure QML
<nik90> afunix: true. But these sample apps like have javascript in them
<afunix> nik90: we're developing a kind of audio transmitter, so C++ is a must for performance
<nik90> afunix: I personally do not know how to combine c++ with qml..but sure someone here will know
<cking> is there a way to automate UI interactions on the N4 phablet so I can do some power / CPU / GPU monitoring  + analysis?
<cking> apparently nobody knows
<tsdgeos> cking: using autopilot?
<cking> tsdgeos, i followed the instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Testing/Autopilot, namely sudo apt-add-repository ppa:autopilot/ppa && sudo apt-get install libautopilot-qt python-autopilot
<cking> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<cking>  python-autopilot : Depends: python-qt4 but it is not going to be installed
<cking> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
<tsdgeos> mzanetti: âââ
<cking> after a clean install, so it doesn't work cleanly "out of the box" so to speak
<mzanetti> interesting...
<mzanetti> cking: why is python-qt4 not going to be installed?
<cking> mzanetti, not sure, let me do a clean install and try again and find what it says
<cking> mzanetti, so clean phablet install on nexus4, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5715649/
<cking> /etc/apt/sources.list has just deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/ quantal main restricted universe multiverse
<ogra_> look in sources.list.d
<mzanetti> cking: oh... you're doing this on the phone?
<cking> mzanetti, yep, so is this not possible on the phablet images yet?
<mzanetti> cking: slightly too early to follow the howto then... its possible, but in that case you need autopilot-phablet instead of python-autopilot
<mzanetti> cking: it should be in the same ppa too
<cking> ahah
<mzanetti> cking: still wouldn't explain the python-qt4 issue
<mzanetti> well... probably it does. maybe we stripped autopilot-qt4 deps from the phablet one... can't remember
<cking> indeed, no idea why I'm getting that, I'm just a H/W hacker
<mzanetti> cking: you will most likely hit some more smaller issues. however, I'm here to help if you want
<cking> ok, /me will retry with autopilot-phablet in a mo
<jounih> is there any way to see which build I have on a device?
<mzanetti> jounih: cat /system/quantal-ubuntu_stamp | head
<jounih> awesome. thanks zanetti
<cking> mzanetti, so are there any available phablet GUI tests available?
<mzanetti> cking: check out camera-app-autopilot
<cking> ack
<mzanetti> cking: actually all of the apps have a -autopilot package and all of them *should* run on the phone too
<mzanetti> cking: at least they a month ago when I last tried.
<cking> mzanetti, so these tests should be in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/autopilot/tests ?
<mzanetti> cking: no. in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/<appname>
<cking> ah, got it
<cking>  mzanetti, can't seem to find a camera-app-autopilot anywhere, I suspect I must be missing some more packages
<mzanetti> cking:
<mzanetti> phablet@localhost:~$ apt-cache search camera-app
<mzanetti> camera-app - Camera application
<mzanetti> camera-app-autopilot - Test package for the camera app
<mzanetti> cking: on a freshly flashed phone
<mzanetti> cking: did you apt-get update?
<cking> ok - didn't know the name of it, this is a bit like playing with lego w/o being able to see the bricks or know what they are called ;-)
<cking> mzanetti, I just get camera-app and not camera-app-autopilot
<mzanetti> cking: cat /system/quantal-ubuntu_stamp | head
<cking> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5715727/
<mzanetti> cking: hmm... looks good
 * cking grabs some lunch, back in a mo
<mzanetti> cking: do you have a /etc/apt/sources.list.d/phablet-team-ppa-quantal.list ?
<mzanetti> +1 on the lunch
<cking> mzanetti, I do have that
 * cking --> food
<ricklandman> Hello
<ricklandman> just popping in while wondering if it is finally time for me to hit the smartphone band wagon.
<ricklandman> I want to have a smartphone with linux on top.
<ricklandman> don't need it for telephony
<ricklandman> internet is not necessary but would be fine
<ricklandman> I am wellknown to linux/ubuntu but don't have time for testing and finetuning.
<ricklandman> Any suggestions what is the easiest/fastest way to get started ?
<mzanetti> ricklandman: if you just want to use it its probably still too early for you...
<mzanetti> ricklandman: however, if you still want to give it a shot, you can install it on any of those devices: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<ricklandman> mzanetti: thanks. and the four upper ones are the 'easiest' ?
<mzanetti> ricklandman: yes. given you have an ubuntu machine, installing is just 1 command
<ricklandman> these are all legacy models ?
<mzanetti> ricklandman: for the others you need to download 2 files, "adb push" them to the device manually and use the devices bootloader to flash
<ricklandman> mzanetti: okay that's not to difficult also
<sergiusens> mzanetti: you can now phablet-network-setup -i && phablet-test-run -i -c camera-app-autopilot camera_app
<mzanetti> ricklandman: no its not... what you mean with legacy devices?
<mzanetti> sergiusens: the problem with cking is rather that the ppa doesn't seem to work
<sergiusens> mzanetti: which ppa?
<ricklandman> legacy=not for sale in regular shop
<ricklandman> anymore
<mzanetti> sergiusens: phablet-team/ppa
<sergiusens> ricklandman: the nexus 10 is not for sale anymore?
<mzanetti> renato: the Nexus 4 for example is brand new
<mzanetti> ricklandman: ^^ (sorry renato)
<ricklandman> okay, so I can make decission between new or secondhand. thans
<sergiusens> mzanetti: cking python-qt4 is in main, shouldn't be a problem http://paste.ubuntu.com/5715801/
<sergiusens> mzanetti: also, the phablet-autopilot that has the latest fix is in ppa:phablet-team/tools
<sil2100> didrocks: qtubuntu-cameraplugin-fake already has a bootstrapping commit so we're fine here
<didrocks> sil2100: sweet! :)
<sil2100> armhf qt5 with the sqlite<->mysql should be built soon as well
<mzanetti> sergiusens: yeah... he can't install camera-app-autopilot as its unknown to his apt for some reason
<sergiusens> mzanetti: hmmm... didn't get that part... well cking is lunching anyways, you said you were going to too :-P
<mzanetti> sergiusens: my fridge is empty... I'll skip it
<ogra_> you could go shopping then :)
<mzanetti> sergiusens: no... spring has finally arrived I want to go biking later which doesn't fit with a full stomach. I'll eat afterwards
<sergiusens> mzanetti: heh... we are getting into a nice fall here.. was tired of the heat!
<mzanetti> sergiusens: it just didn't stop snowing this year... last weekend it finally turned around.
<doomlord> " I'll start with the punchline: If you're writing a function that can be implemented as either a member or as a non-friend non-member, you should prefer to implement it as a non-member function. That decision increases class encapsulation. When you think encapsulation, you should think non-member functions." <<<< NAIL/HEAD
<doomlord> ^^^^ sorry wrong channel
<doomlord> ranting about C++ functions v methods somewhere
<mhall119> well that sounds thrilling
<slacka-hacka> Hi, when does the Ubuntu Touch Anonymous Clinic start ? I've got severe withdrawal symptoms :(
<mhall119> slacka-hacka: starts now
<mhall119> though I don't know where you got the Anonymous part
<slacka-hacka> :)
<slacka-hacka> I could really do with knowing what is the cheapest way of getting up and running. I can't quite stretch to a Nexus 7
<mhall119> you can run Ubuntu SDK apps on Ubuntu desktop
<mhall119> you don't need a device
 * tvoss looks for the doctor
<popey> The Doctor is [IN |  ]
<mterry> mzanetti, are you working on general welcome screen stuff?  i.e. if I assign the pin entry work to you, that wouldn't be unexpected?
<mhall119> slacka-hacka: see http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/ for instructions on getting the SDK up and running
<slacka-hacka> mhall119: Thanks yes... I've been doing that and created a few apps in qtcreator but realistically I want to use muti touch gestures
<mzanetti> mterry: I think thats ok... but we should clarify with kgunn
<mhall119> slacka-hacka: ah, for that you'll need a device
<mzanetti> mterry: just the frontend?
<mhall119> or wait until we have a device emulator (though I don't even know if an emulator would let you simulate multi-touch)
<slacka-hacka> popey - Please prescribe me a Nexus 7 so I can develop :(
<slacka-hacka> :)
<mhall119> slacka-hacka: I don't think your insurance will cover it :)
<mterry> mzanetti, I suppose so.  I imagine the backend will be a no-op (just set a password of 4 digits for the user)
<tvoss> slacka-hacka, I'm curious, what gestures would you be interested in? pinch-to-zoom?
<popey> hah slacka-hacka â»
<mhall119> slacka-hacka: luckily, there are a number of generic brands you can choose from: http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
<slacka-hacka> mhall119: I'm trying to rsync the fs from quantal-preinstalled-phablet-armhf on a lesser tablet
<mhall119> bah, wrong link
<mhall119> slacka-hacka: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices#Working.2C_but_not_available_from_cdimage.u.c
 * ogra_ proposes wave to suspend ... buttwiggle to mail 
<cking> mzanetti, back from lunch now
<slacka-hacka> tvoss: all of them ! I'd like to see how far we can push this :)
<mzanetti> mterry: lets discuss in #ubuntu-unity in a bit when kgunn appears
<kgunn> mzanetti: mterry ack....got a call right now...will come back in about 30
<tvoss> slacka-hacka, just to clarify: it is likely that some gestures will be consumed by the shell :)
<mhall119> alright, any other developers here for the Ubuntu Touch Clinic/
<mhall119> ?
<slacka-hacka> thanks mhall119 .... Oh it's Michael it's it ? ;) @shaf here :p
<popey> mhall119: have updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Meetings but it looks horrid with all those navigation menus, suggestions welcome!
<mhall119> popey: kill it with fire?
<popey> s/suggestions/useful\ suggestions/
<slacka-hacka> tvoss: kernel uevent on touch should be still available even on a console
<cking> mzanetti, perhaps a simple recipe of what to run from a clean install on a N4 is required so I can see what I'm missing
<mhall119> popey: we probably don't need the core apps header
<mhall119> though that would lead to one-way navigation :(
<mzanetti> cking: phablet-flash -l && phablet-network-setup -i && ssh phablet@<device> sudo apt-get update && ssh phablet@<device> sudo apt-get install camera-app-autopilot
<popey> ooh, i didnt know about phablet-network-setup
<cking> popey, it's bound to be on a wiki somewhere ;-)
<popey> we need a better hostname for devices than localhost
<popey> ssh phablet@<device> would be easier then
<popey> maybe we could have a randomly generated hostname, that can't possibly go wrong can it achiang
<tvoss> slacka-hacka, sure
<slacka-hacka> btw gents ... when do you anticipate a launch ?
<popey> "next year" is the standard answer.
<slacka-hacka> it really looks good thus far popey. I was hoping for sooner :o
<mhall119> popey: I cleaned up the style of the navigation a bit
<mhall119> slacka-hacka: if you want it sooner, go tell all the sales-folk at your wireless stores that you want to buy one from them
<slacka-hacka> sorry about this... Is there a way of sending touch gestures from say a galaxy to ubuntu ? I tried building splashtop but the source leaves much to be desired
<alol> mzanetti: yes, it finds nothing.
<slacka-hacka> mhall119: Yep. going to bite the bullet and get a nexus... can't risk flashing the galaxy to ubuntu touch
<nik90> hi popey, mhall119
<popey> hey nik90
<mhall119> slacka-hacka: I'm not sure I understand, you want to pass touch gestures from a galaxy phone to an Ubuntu desktop?
<mhall119> or to Ubuntu Touch running on the device?
<slacka-hacka> mhall119: yes.... unfortunately the device I have running ubuntu has a broken touch interface :(
<mhall119> oh
<kgunn> mzanetti: mterry what's up?....seems lack of google access freeing me up to discuss
<mhall119> physically broken, or just not working with Ubuntu?
<slacka-hacka> yes a big OH indeed (yes physical) :( What started out as a simple project has now great potential with touch because the device has full gl
<slacka-hacka> I would like to see how UT performs on a lesser device... anyway I'll rsync phablet and try to get it up
<mhall119> sergiusens: how are we looking today for freezing the quantal builds and switching to raring?
<mterry> kgunn, I was just asking mzanetti if he was the person to go to with some welcome screen work items like the pin entry
<sergiusens> mhall119: the two stopper bugs haven't been fixed yet
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: should we do the call for test on raring anyways?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: first we should work on opening up the bug lists?
<mzanetti> alol: I lost the context
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: ok, lets do that! Do you want me to start migrating the bugs as discussed?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: lets make a plan
<pmcgowan> we can open then take time to migrate I suppose
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: so first the bug list, then comes raring?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: I was thinking we need a place to file the issues from the testing, and if we are offically calling for the tests. its time
<slacka-hacka> thanks gents... keep up the great work
<nik90> mhall119: is there a way to obtain the gps latitude and longitude of user location on the phone?
<popey> nik90: that's work in progress
<nik90> popey: oh ok..alrite in the case, I will the UI and leave placeholders for the API
<nik90> I meant I will finish the UI and leave placeholders for the API
<brunogirin> popey: what's the status of the bluetooth stack?
<mhall119> nik90: I believe that upstream Qt provides APIs for that, but it's not working yet in Ubuntu Touch
<nik90> mhall119: yeah I read about Qt Location API, however it requires a position source. That info needs to be provided by some package in ubuntu I guess
<mhall119> nik90: yeah, there's various sources that can be used, GPS, geoip, etc
<mhall119> nik90: there appears to be QML plugins for it too: http://doc.qt.digia.com/qtmobility/qml-location-plugin.html
<nik90> mhall119: I was actually referring to that. I will use the Qml Coordinate with some demo data until we wait for the position source to be available
<nik90> mhall119: found more info at http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21614/client-1303-location-service/
<jounih> anyone know if Ubuntu Touch will support access to external media via USB?
<mhall119> jounih: reading or playback?
<jounih> read/write
<mhall119> I don't see why not
<slacka-hacka> quick question... is UTs / filesystem ext4 ? Cheers
<jounih> would be cool if running a Touch phone/tablet in desktop mode you could plug in external SSD/HD. I guess bus powering might be an issue though
<mhall119> yeah, if it has external power than it should work fine
<jounih> does it work already or something for the future?
<ogra_> note that most phones wont charge if their USB bus is in OTG mode
<mhall119> ogra_: can you answer slacka-hacka's westion about filesystem?
<ogra_> so you might run into battery issues doing such stuff
 * mhall119 doesn't have his N7 near by to check
<ogra_> slacka-hacka, yep, ext4 ... likely to become squashfs for some parts later though
<slacka-hacka> thanks ogra_
<aquarius> I have a question :) What's the plan for being able to cache a downloaded thing? Music, images, etc? I can of course store binaries in U1Db or LocalStorage, but that's not really what they're for
<mhall119> ogra_: what about that new filesystem optimized for flash storage?
<ogra_> mhall119, well, kernel patches acceptedm feel free :)
<mhall119> ogra_: yeah, taking kernel patches from me would be a bad idea
<highvoltage> samsung's filesystem? I think xnox was taking a look at that
<ogra_> (we use outdated kernels due to the android layer)
<jounih> what about other USB peripherals, anyone tested usb keyboards/mice with desktop ubuntu on n7?
<mhall119> aquarius: are you more interested in manually writing to local files, or having the SDK auto-cache behind the scenes?
<ogra_> (and often enough completely different versions on a per device base ... so every kernel patch we add is costly)
<MonkeyDust> what's the price of a ubuntu tablet, in any given country?
<mhall119> jounih: I've done it with the desktop N7 image
<jounih> works ok?
<mhall119> MonkeyDust: there isn't one being sold with Ubuntu yet
<mhall119> jounih: yup, exactly as you'd expect it to
<jounih> awesome
<MonkeyDust> mhall119 ok
<aquarius> mhall119, ideally the SDK would provide a CachingAudio object and so on. However, in the absence of that, I can build it myself if I need to (and that gives good ammunition to pleas to include it in the SDK!) if I can write to the filesystem, which I currently cannot.
<jounih> is n7 usb2 or 3?
<aquarius> I'd very much like to see a CachingAudio object.
<alol> mzanetti: I want to use qt5 qml particles, but cannot on Nexus 7. package is not installed, and I cannot ifnd it with apt-cache.
<xnox> mhall119: the f2fs is interesting but (a) requires updated kernel (b) doesn't have fsck (c) doesn't help with snapshot based upgrades.
<xnox> highvoltage: thanks for highlight.
<xnox> mhall119: similar story with nilfs
<mhall119> xnox: thanks for the update, glad it's being investigated at least
<xnox> btrfs was proposed as well, but it still doesn't deliver the promised unicorns =)
<ogra_> btrfs and SD cards (or eMMCs) dont really like each other
<ogra_> its slow as molasses (at least it was last time i looked about a year ago... might have changed)
<ogra_> ext4 is currently still the best option
<slacka-hacka> would prefer to stop rsyslog && log to to /dev/ram instead tbh
 * popey hugs btrfs and covers it's ears
<highvoltage> xnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxxnoxx
<popey> highvoltage: I agree.
<mhall119> someone's happy to see you
<xnox> highvoltage: strangely none of that highlighted me =)
<mhall119> lol
<highvoltage> That makes me feel like such a failure :(
<xnox> popey: it's ok, it comes with complementary disaster recovery counselling.
<aquarius> I think that's the final game list for the world championship of eight-dimensional tic-tac-toe, right?
<popey> pfffft
<slacka-hacka> time for the moment of truth.... brb
<slacka-hacka> well it worked but no UT desktop ...
<ogra_> slacka-hacka, logging to /dev/ram means you eat your memory ...
<mhall119> crunchy
<ogra_> imagine a process that spills log lines like crazy ...
<slacka-hacka> ogra_: true. Don't log much then :) The first linux system I built has 64meg of flash for the OS and 128meg for ram. I was logging in ram :o Get lean and mean boys
<ogra_> haha
<ogra_> i wish we could
<ogra_> but there is that convergence story ...
<slacka-hacka> OK so UT is up ... what init process forks the desktop ?
<ogra_> i agree that logging needs to be cut down on phones
<ogra_> but the tool doing the logging should be the same on desktop and phone ...
<ogra_> (thats true for everything in the converged world)
<slacka-hacka> OMG #iFail ... what's the default username and password ?
<ogra_> phablet/phablet
<slacka-hacka> thank you .... will give it a try
<mhall119> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/1cj69e/building_an_ubuntu_sdk_app_rev_8/ upvotes welcome
<popey> sergiusens: is the raring build available to install?
<ogra_> popey, it is on cdimage
<ogra_> usual place
<ogra_> use the manual install instructions from the wiki ...
<popey> does phablet-flash have an option/switch for it?
<ogra_> no
<mhall119> ogra_: are we going to need an update to phablet-tools to allow it to download and install raring images?
<didrocks> mhall119: hey, I didn't check the tutorial, but is it updated now with latest sdk?
<ogra_> it will just download raring by default once it is safe to do so
<ogra_> until then the brave can use the manual methdd
<ogra_> *method
<mhall119> didrocks: not yet, they changed the templates again in response to a problem I was having
<ogra_> (and i also suspect raring wont survive more than 4 weeks, we'll then switch to S very soon)
<didrocks> mhall119: ok, do you know when it will be online with the new version?
<didrocks> ogra_: you are so optimistic :)
<ogra_> didrocks, well ... we have to
<didrocks> ogra_: too much emotion ;-)
<ogra_> i just like to keep my job :P
<mhall119> didrocks: I'll give it another look today
<didrocks> mhall119: thanks!
<didrocks> ogra_: ahah
<popey> I'm having problems installing python-qt4 (required by autopilot) on the device.. http://paste.ubuntu.com/5716023
<sil2100> jhodapp: ping, are you around?
<jhodapp> sil2100: one min
<sil2100> ACK
<mzanetti> alol: I have it here as libqt5quickparticles5 (which seems a bit odd indeed but will get renamed at some point I guess)
<slacka-hacka> so I need a ubuntu-session .conf You've got stuff like px density in there... Any manpages around ?
<jhodapp> sil2100: ok
<jhodapp> sil2100: what's up?
 * popey files bug 1169985
<ubot5> bug 1169985 in Autopilot "Cannot install autopilot from ppa on phablet device" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1169985
<sil2100> jhodapp: hi!
<jhodapp> sil2100: hey
<sil2100> jhodapp: I noticed that qtubuntu-camera has no integration tests - is there anyone working on adding those?
<jhodapp> sil2100: not sure, I'd check with gusch as he's the eng lead for that backend
<jhodapp> sil2100: I'm sure the plan is the add them over time though, it's just not been added yet
<slacka-hacka> anyone fancy helping me get ubuntu-session up ? :)
<sil2100> jhodapp: thanks! Give me a sign once you know anything ;)
<sil2100> If you're busy I can poke gusch as well
<jhodapp> sil2100: sure, I'd recommend still asking gusch though to see what he's thinking
<alol> mzanetti: Oddly, apt-cache search libqt5quickparticles5 gives me nothing :/
<sil2100> Will do
<sergiusens> popey: http://sergiusens.github.io/posts/using-phablet-tools-to-install-raring-image.html
<sergiusens> popey: you cannot install autopilot? hmmm, let me work on instructions... I'm doing it nightly
<popey> thanks sergiusens
<slacka-hacka> all I need to calculate is my GRID_UNIT_PX
<slacka-hacka> Now I see why no one volunteered to help. Android dependencies :s
<sil2100> gusch: ping
<slacka-hacka> Failling back. This is not going to work... thanks for the input chaps
<dpm> hi mmrazik, around?
<dpm> It seems that Jenkins is not autolanding branches for the RSS Reader app
<jounih> i'm trying to flash but get "Not enough space in /data, found 3.6G" - any ideas?
<mmrazik> dpm: I know. I will have a look later today. There is something really broken with that canonistack instance as I can't put it back online
<mmrazik> I fear I will have to recreate it
<dpm> mmrazik, bummer :/ - thanks a lot for looking into it nevertheless
<sergiusens> jounih: you can clear out whatever you have in /data a bit... or
<sergiusens> jounih: or disable device validation... but now that I see. It's a settings.py thing, not a runtime option...
 * sergiusens will fix that
<jounih> cool thanks :)
<didrocks> sergiusens: rsalveti pmcgowan: FYI, just enabled bug listing in daily, so next time some components pass tests, you should see them listed :)
<sergiusens> didrocks: ty!
<didrocks> yw ;)
<Oranger> mhall119: I just pushed a branch in the project, it is just able to open a plain text actually
<mhall119> Oranger: awesome!  Can you take a screenshot of that?
<Oranger> mhall119: Of what ? Of my branch ? ^^
<mhall119> of the app with the file open
<Oranger> oh yes sure ! :)
<Oranger> (I have to find a cool plain test to open ahah)
<mhall119> just a hello world text file would do
<Oranger> mhall119: Ok i'm uploading
<Oranger> mhall119: http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/394820Capturedu20130417190142.png
<mhall119> Oranger: also, could you give me some instructions on how to build and use the launcher?
<mhall119> keeping in mind that I know almost nothing about C++
<Oranger> mhall119: http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/245605Capturedu20130417190209.png
<Oranger> mhall119: Oh yes the README... I'll add it later
<Oranger> mhall119: So actually to buil the launcher you have to get qtCreator, launch the *.pro file un launcher/src then click on "build"
<mhall119> thanks
<Oranger> mhall119: I saw in some blog and website that a lot of core-apps are mentionned but not docviewer, why ?
<mhall119> Oranger: until your branch, nothing had been done on it :)
<mhall119> Now I can start talking about it
<Oranger> mhall119: Yes.. that's true ^^
<mhall119> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109919666334513536939/posts/33GC7V7ju8Z
<mhall119> rickspencer3: http://www.iloveubuntu.net/meet-fingerpaint-captivating-ubuntu-sdk-based-app-created-20-minutes
<Oranger> mhall119: I have a lot of ideas but the SDK is really poor.. I hope the team will improve it fastly
<mhall119> Oranger: they are
<mhall119> Oranger: remember that the SDK is only a few months old
<Oranger> mhall119: Yes I know, how many are they working on it ?
<mhall119> well it's spread across multiple teams actually, those doing the UI components, those doing the device integration, those doing the Ubuntu Touch version of Unity, those doing libraries like U1DB, Friends, etc
<rickspencer3> mhall119, wow, I am so *the man* lol
<rickspencer3> Oranger, I think the SDK is really good!
<mhall119> rickspencer3: now if only it didn't make the N7 go all wonky
<rickspencer3> I mean, QML is pretty mature
<Oranger> ricklandman: QML yes, but ubuntu-ui not ;)
<rickspencer3> and the Ubuntu Components are coming along nicely
<rickspencer3> well, I guess I am biased ;)
<Oranger> I need to use some painting tools, but i'm not sure I can do it with QML alone...
<ogra_> not only the components, the core too :P
<WebVisitor-8> quick question
<WebVisitor-8> how do i access settings
<Oranger> ogra_: You are right ^^
<WebVisitor-8> installed on my nexus 10
<ogra_> :)
<WebVisitor-8> cant find settings
<WebVisitor-8> wierd
<ogra_> beyond whats in the indicators in the top panel there are no settings yet
<mhall119> WebVisitor-8: there isn't a settings UI right now, asside from the indicators at the top
<WebVisitor-8> ah
<WebVisitor-8> so you cant create a different user?
<ogra_> there are designs and i think people are working on implementation already
<mhall119> you probably can from the command-line, but I don't know if the greeter is fully working to let you switch yet
<ogra_> but nothing thats done yet
<WebVisitor-8> looks nice but back to the might Android I go!
<WebVisitor-8> thank you
<WebVisitor-8> !
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> come back though !
<WebVisitor-8> will do
<mhall119> WebVisitor-8: we're catching up quickly
<mhall119> it won't be long before it's ready to be a daily driver for early adopters
<ogra_> to late :)
<ogra_> he's gone
<mhall119> :P
<mhall119> that's for prosperity then
<mhall119> so I can either praise my prophetic abilities, or eat my words
 * mhall119 really hopes for the former
<Oranger> mhall119: I made a README, I hope I have not made ââmistakes ^^'
<mhall119> Oranger: did you push it to the same branch?
<boiko> fginther: hi, mzanetti told me you are the one taking care of CI/autolanding for community apps, is that correct?
<mzanetti> boiko: fginther: I'm assuming that because of this: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+members#active
<fginther> boiko, yes, I help with that
<boiko> fginther: great! so, it seems autolanding is not running for the calculator app (or there is something else broken somewhere)
<boiko> fginther: https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/ubuntu-calculator-app/package-fixes/+merge/158482
<boiko> fginther: I approved this MR yesterday and it is still not merged
<fginther> bioko, the server is down and we've had issues getting it back up. We're in the process of rebuilding it, but I don't have an ETA. Hopefully today.
<mhall119> fginther: sounds like fun
<fginther> mhall119, is there a preferred method for broadcasting these server outages?
<mhall119> fginther: there's a mailing list for the core apps, that's probably the best place
<fginther> mhall119, thanks
<mhall119> fginther: ubuntu-touch-coreapps@lists.launchpad.net
<fginther> mhall119, thanks again
<mhall119> np
<boiko> fginther: ok, no problems, I was just wondering if it was a config issue or something like that, but if it is just a matter of getting the service up again, then I'm fine waiting
<fginther> boiko, thanks for checking, sometimes I don't notice until someone pings me
<mpt> Just posted "Security & Privacy" wireframes (no spec text yet): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityAndPrivacySettings#Phone
<mhall119> mpt: is that going to be an app or an indicator?
<moocow1452> Can anyone make heads or tails of this. http://paste.ubuntu.com/5716685/ Looks like Kernel flags but I want to be sure.
<sergiusens> boiko: hey regarding the ringer sound, where are you getting it from?
<boiko> sergiusens: ubuntu-sounds I think, let me double check
<moocow1452> Anyone good at making the system?
<sergiusens> boiko: so it's not from the android tree... that's all I want to make sure of, since I'm removing all those things from there
<boiko> sergiusens: nope, not from android
<sergiusens> boiko: hawsome
<sergiusens> :-)
<rsalveti> sergiusens: guess only the camera sound is from android
<sergiusens> rsalveti: yup...
<sergiusens> rsalveti: so I might migrate the .mk to use the assets, or migrate the asset to the right location since we don't need it in bzr/patch, that is sort of an old mechanism :-)
<sergiusens> moocow1452: show me your commoncap.c
<sergiusens> pastebinit
<rsalveti> sergiusens: sorry, but the asset is already available via a git repo
<sergiusens> rsalveti: yeah I know... just wondering if we should move stuff around
<rsalveti> what would be the right location?
<sergiusens> rsalveti: not doing right now fwiw
<rsalveti> right, yeah
<sergiusens> rsalveti: frameworks/base/data/sounds/effects
<sergiusens> rsalveti: not to worry for now
<rsalveti> sergiusens: oh, ok
<moocow1452> sergiunsens, where do I find that?
<rsalveti> good
<sergiusens> moocow1452: the path is in your pastebin
<kdub> so this is where everyone hangs out now...
<sergiusens> kdub: welcome to the party!
<moocow1452> sergiusens. http://paste.ubuntu.com/5716872/
<moocow1452> There was another place?
<moocow1452> where we were supposed to hang out.
 * sergiusens wonders why he needs to login to download as text from pastebin
<moocow1452> incognito mode seems to allow access okay for me, should I use the other pastebin?
<moocow1452> sergiusens, http://pastebin.com/XJY2ejd9
<sergiusens> no, use ubuntu
<sergiusens> I already have it
<moocow1452> So, any ideas?
<sergiusens> moocow1452: use this commoncap http://paste.ubuntu.com/5716894/
<moocow1452> K, it's building...
<moocow1452> Thanks sergiusens, still building now, but it would of quit by now if the new file didn't solve anything.
<sergiusens> moocow1452: np
<mhall119> sergiusens: who's working on the OSK code?
<sergiusens> mhall119: tmoenicke
<mhall119> thanks
<sergiusens> rsalveti: I might as well just move to ubuntu/assets, makes it cleaner
<ChickenCutlass> rsalveti: I a going to have to do the console over USB.  System keeps rebooting.
<moocow1452> Build is DONE!!
<sergiusens> moocow1452: good
<moocow1452> Thanks sergiusnes, and everyone.
<mhall119> tedg: what package gives me Ubuntu.HUD in QML?
<tedg> mhall119, libhud-qt-qml
<mhall119> thanks
<mhall119> tedg: why doesn't it use the qtdeclarative5-<foo>-plugin naming convention?
<tedg> mhall119, No clue.  Sorry.
<mhall119> ok, thanks
<sergiusens> rsalveti: frameworks base patch is 385MB
<rsalveti> sergiusens: lol
<siert> anyone tried to install ubuntu phone on zte v889m?
<mhall119> !devices | siert
<ubot5> siert: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<mhall119> siert: ^^ if it's not on that page, nobody's done anything with it yet
<siert> mhall119: page doesn't exist? :s
<mhall119> what?
<mhall119> yes it does
<siert> mhall119: hrmz, iterm seems to add the current time to the url when hitting it somehow, weird. see that it only lists nexus
<siert> mhall119: any reference docs on howto get started experimenting with unsupported devices? :P
<mhall119> siert: nexus is the only ones supported by Canonical, the rest are supported by community porters
<mhall119> siert: see the "Working, but not available from cdimage.u.c" section
<mhall119> of the "Work in progress" section
<mhall119> siert: if you're interested in making it work on a device that it doesn't currently work on, there's a guide to doing that here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting
<siert> ah great, thanks :)
<mhall119> no problem, happy hacking :)
<sergiusens> rsalveti: hey, do you see 3 files here: http://people.canonical.com/~sergiusens/patches/ ?
<sergiusens> rsalveti: those are the patches
<rsalveti> sergiusens: yup
<rsalveti> sergiusens: ok, cool
<rsalveti> sergiusens: will give them a try once I'm done with my builds
<sergiusens> rsalveti: ok... you can start downloading now though :-)
<rsalveti> haha, sure
<sergiusens> I deployed to my devices and check $OUT/system, seemed to be ok
<sergiusens> rsalveti: lots more to trim though, but didn't want the mega patch any larger :-)
<sergiusens> rsalveti: going to see if I can remove the java req first
<rsalveti> sergiusens: right, that's a start
<rsalveti> yeah, that's just used for the signing part
<rsalveti> not sure if that's indeed relevant
<sergiusens> rsalveti: well, I'll analyze then see...
<rsalveti> ok
<rsalveti> just because once we switch our images we're probably not going to sign them anyway
<sergiusens> rsalveti: never? not even for OTA?
<rsalveti> sergiusens: not sure
<rsalveti> just a guess
<Oranger> mhall119: Oranger: did you push it to the same branch?
<Oranger> mhall119: yes
<mhall119> Oranger: did you push or just commit?
<mhall119> Oranger: because https://code.launchpad.net/~chocanto/ubuntu-docviewer-app/plainText is still at rev 3
<Oranger> mhall119: Woops no sorry I pushed without commit x)
<mhall119> no worries :)
<mhall119> I've done that more times than I can remember
<Oranger> mhall119: Done ;)
 * mhall119 reads the README in ubuntu-docviewer-app :)
<Oranger> mhall119: good ^^
<Oranger> mhall119: Why your branch "package-fixes" is still in review ?
<mhall119> Oranger: nobody's reviewed it yet?
<Oranger> actually no
<Oranger> mhall119: it is stull proposing for merging
<Taranoshi> Hello, i was just wondering...what may be the average proce for a Ubuntu tablet?
<Taranoshi> price
<Oranger> mhall119: Because who are you waiting to review it ?
#ubuntu-touch 2013-04-18
<CimmerianX> hello all
<CimmerianX> Can anyone tell me if the nexus 4 has any issues being detected on a phablet-flash -b ?
<CimmerianX> mine shows as a 'unsupported device, autodetect dails device'
<RobbyF> should work
<RobbyF> I believe there is just the one model world wide
<CimmerianX> yep - Model Nexus 4  Ver 4.2.2
<CimmerianX> this one seems to be running  AOKP
<RobbyF> shouldn't matter.
<RobbyF> you can just flash via recovery
<boydoy> hi! there i way i can change the OS of my android phone into Ubuntu Mobile?
<CimmerianX> do you mean a manual install from here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<RobbyF> yup
<RobbyF> just download, adb push to /sdcard/autodeploy.zip
<RobbyF> I just did it as we speak :)
<CimmerianX> ack.   it's being pushed to /sdcard/ now.
<RobbyF> should work :)
<RobbyF> boydoy, which android?
<boydoy> im using o+ 8.52
<boydoy> its that ok to change
<RobbyF> no idea what that is, but check this ported list here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<boydoy> and ubuntu they have also like google play
<boydoy> i can download a free games
<RobbyF> boydoy, not yet, the os is still in developer preview mode
<RobbyF> about half a year from regular user interaction.
<boydoy> ahh ok.. but if ever i try they have a way i can back to original OS?
<RobbyF> I don't see why not
<RobbyF> :)
<CimmerianX> wow - how large is the armhf?
<CimmerianX> still pushing.
<RobbyF> takes me like 3-4 minutes
<RobbyF> I did raring which is 523M
<CimmerianX> still pushing.
<CimmerianX> Robby - still here?
<CimmerianX> I did the armhf push to /sdcard/autodeploy.zip and did the reboot recovery....   as per the wiki.
<CimmerianX> I'm in the recovery project menu.  If I reboot, I go back to the AOKP android OS.    Is there a step I'm missing?
<CimmerianX> oh duh/....
<CimmerianX> that did it - It's loaded.
<CimmerianX> that;s a big flash...
<CimmerianX> hmmm....   i have the wallpaper - but phone is unresponsive....
<mhall119> CimmerianX: swipe from the left or right edge in to the center
<CimmerianX> oic
<CimmerianX> ALL the way to the center
<mhall119> well, no, but "to the center" it easier that "a little way in from the left for the launcher, follow through for the Apps lens, swipe from the right a little to peak at the next window, follow through to switch to it"
<DrCode> hi all
<DrCode> dose ubuntu-tuch have support for samsung s3?
<dijzon> hi ppl
<dijzon> i have a droid razer m ,and i been working on getting full ubuntu installed on it but i need some help
<DrCode> dose ubuntu touch support in samsung s3?
<dijzon> so is there anyone that can help
<dijzon> yes it dose
<dijzon> just need to get the driver stacks for ur hardware
<dijzon> stacks cdma gsm wifi cpu gpu and etc
<dijzon> drcode what arm do u have
<dijzon> v6-v7?
<dijzon> so the droid razer m running ubuntu ,but i wanna get the full ubuntu on my test phone
<Mirv> lool: hate to ask, but I don't find a trace of the new ubuntu-ui-toolkit upload, in queues or elsewhere in LP
<didrocks> Mirv: it's in the unapproved queue
<didrocks> Mirv: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=
<didrocks> Mirv: you probably need to talk on #ubuntu-release to get it in
<Mirv> didrocks: oh, funny, I thought I checked that but apparently I was in a different section
<didrocks> Mirv: maybe you check NEW?
<Mirv> probably..
<Mirv> didrocks: that getting raring is btw the only remaining part I know of required to have the different aspects of the documentation being wrong fixed
<Mirv> in both web and archives
<didrocks> Mirv: oh, even the tutorial? excellent!
<Mirv> didrocks: I'm not sure if dpm has updated everything yet, but at least from my point of view the package/trunk is fixed and the other things are on the move by michael and david
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> great ;)
<dpm> didrocks, Mirv, on it, sorry for the delay. The documentation is up to date, the tutorial I'm working on
<Mirv> dpm: great! the important thing IMHO was identifying what things needed to be fixed and where.
<dholbach> good morning
<mpt> mhall119, lol
<nik90> fginther: is there a way to know if the jenkins autolanding system is back online?
<sil2100> didrocks: so, a follow-up to the topic of integration tests for qtubuntu-camera, as I had a quick chat with gusch
<sil2100> didrocks: right now there are no real plans for introducing explicit integration tests for that package, but what we could theoretically do is to install and execute camera-app integration tests for qtubuntu-camera
<sil2100> As those are practically doing the integration testing
<didrocks> sil2100: so similar to what we've done for indicators up to now?
<didrocks> sil2100: they are both on the same stack already, so integration tests will be run and everything will be in or rejected :)
<didrocks> sil2100: gallery-app FTBFS in the daily-build-next ppa, so not integration tests will be run, mind having a look?
<sil2100> ACK
<oSoMoN> tmoenicke: hey Thomas, would you mind reviewing/testing https://code.launchpad.net/~osomon/webbrowser-app/addressbar-behind-osk/+merge/159382 ?
<tmoenicke> oSoMoN: checking
<oSoMoN> thx
<tmoenicke> oSoMoN: great thx
<tmoenicke> oSoMoN: is it invisible?
<oSoMoN> tmoenicke: I was hoping you could test on your device(s), but yes, in theory the address bar is not visible below the osk anymore
<tmoenicke> oSoMoN: i will test it
<tmoenicke> thx
<sil2100> didrocks: hm, it seems that python -c "from distutils.sysconfig import get_python_lib; print get_python_lib()" returns none in the PPA during the gallery-app build?
<sil2100> didrocks: python should be already on the chroot, right?
<sil2100> Maybe we need a dep
<didrocks> sil2100: no, it's not part of the chroot
<didrocks> contrarly to CI that adds some deps for nothing unfortunately :/
<sil2100> So ok, I think the dep needs to be added ;p
<didrocks> sil2100: yep, nice catch! :)
<didrocks> sil2100: btw, how did you spot it from the logs? /me curious
<sil2100> didrocks: I checked that it said no DESTINATION is given, while the DESTINATION is ${PYTHON_PACKAGE_DIR} in this case, which is fetch through execute_process and the python command in the CMakeLists.txt file
<didrocks> sil2100: interesting, nice work :)
<sil2100> https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/gallery-app/build_dep_on_python/+merge/159570
<sil2100> brb in a moment
<didrocks> sil2100: I'm rerunning gallery-app and the app stack build
<DrCode> hi all
<DrCode> any support for samsung galaxy s3 or only nexus?
<nik90> !devices | DrCide
<ubot5> DrCide: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<nik90> DrCode: check the link to see if your device is supported
<DrCode> I realylike to test ubuntu-tuch
<DrCode> dose ubuntu0tuch come with all pkgs in ubuntu
<nik90> DrCode: The S3 international is not supported...but there are version for verizon I think
<DrCode> like aircrack-ng?
<DrCode> I see
<nik90> DrCode: not sure.
<DrCode> what I love in s3 is that I can use microsd
<DrCode> didn't found it in nexus
<nik90> DrCode: I have a S3 international as well, but not supported yet :(
<DrCode> when a stable release will be of ubuntu-tauch?
<DrCode> I see
<DrCode> I realy love this mobile
<nik90> DrCode: the beta should be available this october hopefully...
<DrCode> wow, nice
<nik90> DrCode: I think they are targetting first quarter of 2014 for final release
<DrCode> it will be very intersting
<nik90> DrCode: You can already try out some core apps like calendar, clock, calculator, facebook etc on your computer
<DrCode> dose thay plan to support most devices?
<DrCode> or only spcifics?
<nik90> Officially canonical are supporting the nexus devices, but the community or any one can port to any device you want.
<DrCode> ok
<popey> mardy: you about?
<Neo> excuse
<Guest13130> does ubuntu touch support restoring your old android ?
<Guest13130> on HTC Desire hd or htc one x
<Guest13130> ?
<sil2100> didrocks: hmmm, my branch with the explicit list of packages was merged, right? Since I see that the hud stack generic job failed because of extra packages wanting to be installed
<sil2100> Was all correctly deployed?
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, it's in and deployed
<didrocks> sil2100: the stacks are running with those now
<sil2100> didrocks: in what moment is the packages list used? You once said it's being used as a comparison table - that if an extra package is installed and not in the packages list, the warning gets emitted, right?
<didrocks> sil2100: indeed, it's when we install the machine which will run autopilot
<sil2100> didrocks: is there an easy way to check what 'packages' were in the config during a generic build that has been fired?
<sil2100> In the packages parameter?
<sil2100> Since it looks as if it was ignoring all the packages we put there recently :
<sil2100> :|
<didrocks> sil2100: what are you looking at exactly?
<sil2100> didrocks: http://10.97.0.1:8080/job/ps-generic-autopilot-release-testing/98/label=autopilot-ati/console
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, I told you to discare those and looking at what we are going to run :)
<didrocks> sil2100: so run 102 for instance
<didrocks> I redeployed this morning
<sil2100> Ah, so there's no up-to-date results right now ;p?
<sil2100> I think I misunderstood and thought that since you re-deployed in the morning, those should he the 'latest'
<sil2100> Ok, so I go back to my HUD-hunting then
<didrocks> sil2100: not yet :)
<didrocks> sil2100: yep ;)
<sil2100> hmm
 * sil2100 wonders how we got that test passing for armhf in HUD in the past
<didrocks> sil2100: was it passing when we were building with the platform api?
<sil2100> didrocks: not sure now, maybe you're right and it never did - need to poke the platform-api people, since I think I know what's wrong but need to check with them on if I'm right
<didrocks> ok :)
<sil2100> ricmm: ping
<ogra_> rsalveti, i managed to drop another 700M (unpacked) from the tarball
<Taiten987> trying to build /ubuntu in another AOSP here, but keep receiving failure
<Taiten987> checked files under /build but I can't really find what did I missed
<Taiten987> here is the log http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5718645/, please advice if you have any idea :(
<ogra_> janimo, lol ... see above ... i removed most of the superfluous toolchains  in my testing
<ogra_> funny that we always sectretly look at the same stuff without the other knowing
<pmcgowan> hey Taiten987 how are you
<Taiten987> pmcgowan, working on the patches :)
<Taiten987> pmcgowan, a bit stuck here
<pmcgowan> if rsalveti is around he may be able to help
<Taiten987> pmcgowan, I just figured out it was surfaceflinger API changes
<Taiten987> pmcgowan, yes, I had pinged him
<Taiten987> pmcgowan, hopefully he can see it
<pmcgowan> Taiten987: can you use the same version of AOSP? did you see my email?
<Taiten987> pmcgowan, yes I do
<janimo> ogra_, heh :)
<ogra_> i just answered your mail
<janimo> not usre where' above to look, will check the email
<ogra_> we want to actually start building the android stuff on the package builders
<ogra_> to do that the source tree needs quite some cleanup though ... so you dont have to upload a 1.4G tarball for every change
<janimo> ogra_, the problem with removing some of all prebuilts is that some  kernels only build with a specific one
<ogra_> http://phablet.ubuntu.com/export/
<janimo> so mako kernel did not build for me with raring gcc a while ago
<janimo> ogra_, also I tried building for a huawei device and that to only built with an inlcuded 4.6
<ogra_> well, rsalveti added a patch to actually use the packaged binary instaed
<ogra_> so you dont need to build the kernel at all
<janimo> if we expect people to contribute ubuntu touch ports they may have an additional hurdle if they need to find a toolchain
<ogra_> for porters we will have to keep the full tree around
<janimo> although not sure how we could move stuff to cdimage and support many crazy toolchains
<ogra_> but for building for something supported we want a cut down set
<janimo> so I hope we can make all work with stock gcc
<pmcgowan> janimo: thats a valid concner
<pmcgowan> concern
<ogra_> well, you need to shuffle a lot ... gcc, and gcc-cross need to work
<janimo> ogra_, well we only have packaged kernels  for nexus 7
<ogra_> but since yesterdays desaster with image builds we decided we want a very small tree and use the package builders for rolling images
<janimo> a lot of the rest of devices are either 3rd patry hacked up OEM kernels or too new SoCs we do not package yet
<janimo> hopefully multiARM kernels will come to the rescue soooooon
<sil2100> didrocks: the phone-app with the changes made works like a charm on my desktop
 * ogra_ tried to implement image building on the livefs builder ... that resulted in the machine to die for a full day 
<sil2100> didrocks: there's one merge that needs to go in though
<didrocks> sil2100: \o/ excellent news ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: ah?
<ogra_> luvefs builders arent designed for cross compiling :P
<ogra_> *livefs
<ogra_> janimo, we also plan to package the android bionic toolchain for cross building
<ogra_> thats a long term plan though
<ogra_> in the short term using the packaged toolchains (or packaging linaros android cross chain) is the plan
<sil2100> didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/phone-app/hud1/+merge/158201 <- waiting for CI to finish the re-build
<didrocks> sil2100: mediumtests failed
<Oranger> mhall119: Hey ! My branch seam to be clean now. I want to work on the package but can't do it still your branch "package-fixes" isn't merged
<Oranger> *seem
<sil2100> eeek, all of them!
<sil2100> hmmm
<sil2100> Strange, since HUD 1.0 is in the daily PPA already
<ogra_> use the large tests then, not the mediumtests :P
<sil2100> didrocks: what PPA is CI using when running the autopilot tests, do you know by any chance?
<didrocks> sil2100: I think they start using your daily-build-next ppa, but better to check with fghinter
<didrocks> ogra_: tsss :p
<Guest87519> I would like to know if it is possible to contribute as a tester, I mean not only for bugs but also to describe things that can be improve (for example, I suggest to blcok the switch between apps from the top and the bottom corner of the right part of the screen)
<sil2100> ;)
<fginther> nik90, the best way to know if jenkins is back online is to check the url: http://91.189.93.125:8080/
<fginther> nik90, The server is online at the moment (Hooray!) but it's a little more work to setup the jobs for each project.
<sil2100> \o/
<awe_> lool, I don't see anyone from the indicator/settings team?
<mzanetti> cyphermox: ping
<Oranger> mhall119: ping
<cyphermox> mzanetti: pong
<mzanetti> cyphermox: hi
<mzanetti> cyphermox: regarding https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/autopilot-qt/add-tests/+merge/153695
<mzanetti> cyphermox: I guess its now or never
<cyphermox> rock on!
<mhall119> Oranger: pong
<mzanetti> cyphermox: its still on Needs Fixing from you
<Oranger> mhall119: 1 point
<mzanetti> you mind approving?
<Oranger> mhall119: Hum sorry ^^
<Oranger> mhall119: Hum so I did what you ask me yesterday, the directory is clean
<mhall119> Oranger: checking it out now, thanks
<Oranger> mhall119: And I want to finish the package but actually I can't until your branch isn't marge
<Oranger> *merge
<cyphermox> mzanetti: done.
<mzanetti> cyphermox: thanks a bunch
<cyphermox> note that this won't land in raring as-is; you'd need to file it against lp:autopilot-qt/0.8
<cyphermox> that said, does it need to be in raring?
<cyphermox> actually, ignore me
<mzanetti> cyphermox: no... just need to get it merged because other work that requires adding more tests is pending
<cyphermox> you got the FFE ack anyway, so might as well if we have the chance
<cyphermox> once that gets merged I'll re-run the qa stack
<cyphermox> could you file it against the 0.8 branch too?
<mhall119> Oranger: can you review my package-fixes branch?
<Oranger> mhall119: Yes I do it now
<mhall119> thanks
<mzanetti> cyphermox: https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/autopilot-qt/add-tests/+merge/159636
<mhall119> Oranger: your branch is approved
<Oranger> mhall119: Thanks
<mhall119> fginther: so is jenkins back on the job, or still recovering?
<fginther> mhall119, It looks to be alive. I'm checking to make sure the build tools are in place before I deploy the jobs
<mhall119> thanks fginther
<rsalveti> sergiusens: you noticed already but I pushed your stuff yesterday
<rsalveti> and sent the kernel one after doing the 4 builds and also producing a test grouper one based on the ubuntu package as well
<Oranger> mhall119: I approved
<mhall119> thanks Oranger
<fginther> mhall119, I've pinged martin about the jenkins server. There is still a little more work to do that I can't complete.
<dpm> fginther, thanks for bringing Jenkins back to life. While you're at it, and if there isn't one already, would it be possible to add a job to run the autopilot tests in the core apps branches?
<fginther> dpm, the test infrastructure is currently insufficient to do this, but I'll discuss this with my team to see if we can get it on the roadmap
<sergiusens> rsalveti: yes, I am reviewing now... and I did check as I mentioned it in the gcc email thread :-)
<sergiusens> rsalveti: I can only test build the mako and grouper, those are the two devices I don't have ;-)
 * sergiusens just noticed he was marked away
<rsalveti> sergiusens: that's fine, we can request someone else to test mako if needed
<sergiusens> rsalveti: I will review, I trust you did the testing I will review
<sergiusens> rsalveti: who has a mako? I can build and send
<sergiusens> oh plars  :-)
 * sergiusens thinks he might be abusing plars' devices
<plars> yesss? :)
<dpm> thanks a lot fginther. Just asking to have some more context: why is the test infrastructure currently insufficient?  Is e.g. the number of jobs that the jenkins instance limited and we've reached the limit? Or is it related to autopilot not playing well with jenkins... ?
<dpm> sorry, I meant "that the jenkins instance can run"
<sergiusens> plars: give me a couple and I'll create a mako image... still reviewing the code ;-)
<plars> sergiusens: sounds good
<didrocks> mterry: FYI, sil2100 did some progress on touch today, and we are almost being able to build and test everything. Do you mind checking with him if you have time for finishing up the autopilot things?
<mterry> sil2100, talk to me!  :)
<fginther> dpm, the main reason is that autopilot tests can't run inside a pbuilder, they need a real desktop environment. The likely solution is to do this in a dedicated VM, which isn't too difficult, but there may be some resource constraints that I'm not aware of.
<sergiusens> rsalveti: I take that in 2 weeks time that raring in the BoardConfig will change to slug?
<sil2100> !
<benkaiser> anyone got an ETA for GSM in Ubuntu Touch (e.g. data)
<sil2100> mterry, didrocks: so... I had a talk with fginther, and soon we should be able to get both the phone-app HUD version bump and qtvideo-node arches merges in, those are required for us to carry on
<dpm> thanks fginther, understood
<rsalveti> sergiusens: yeah
<sil2100> I'm trying to figure out now with the help of rsalveti on how to deal with the armhf test failure on HUD, as it's a problem with android-specific bits
<mterry> sil2100, yay
<benkaiser> anyone? gsm ETA?
<ogra_> sergiusens, so i looked into removing the oggs and mp4's, seems there are a bunch of changes needed for the build system to get rid of them (and i'm also not sure if we use something like i.e. the camera sound from teh android side when taking pics)
<sergiusens> ogra_: that's already done
<sergiusens> ogra_: update and see
<ogra_> oh
<ogra_> well, i'm playing with the tarball here :)
<ogra_> but havent pulled todays yet
<sergiusens> ogra_: or just look at http://phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=CyanogenMod/android_frameworks_base.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/phablet-10.1
 * ogra_ hugs sergiusens 
<sergiusens> ogra_: also made the changes to the makefiles as necessary in vendor/cm
<ogra_> yay
<ogra_> so now the toolchains and kernels and we should have a sweet 500M tarball :)
<sergiusens> ogra_: after getting this kernel review in, I'll be looking into making it smaller
<ogra_> or even less
<sergiusens> yes
<ogra_> yeah, sadly the gcc-cross one doesnt work
<ogra_> not sure if slangasek got it solved
<sergiusens> ogra_: this would of been done sooner if we ever had this git repo in place for more than 2 months :-)
<ogra_> no hurry
<MalMen> anyone can tellme if that tablet support touch http://www.efox.com.pt/envios-da-europa-vido-n101-ii-android-4-1-rk3066-dual-core-10-1-1280-x-800-ips-32gb-3g-wifimara-dupla-tablet-pc-p-300356 ?
<MalMen> thank you
<ogra_> after all i'm happy  that i can skip raring :)
<ogra_> and concentrate fully on S
<ogra_> (for the image builds)
<wilee-nilee> MalMen, your link has a bad wot popup
<WebVisitor-3> Hello! Sorry  for the interruption. I bought a Vaio T13 touchscreen ultrabook hoping that Windows 8 is a usable os. This isn't so, I found Windows 8 very user unfriendly and slow OS. So I installed Ubuntu 13.04 on my ultrabook. The problem is that the multitouch is not supported. I mean I cant click, drag with the touchscreen. I read that I need to install some kind of touchscreen driver. Could you please explain where do
<MalMen> wilee-nilee what specs i can give you to know if is compatible ?
<wilee-nilee> MalMen, none I'm just on the channel.
<rsalveti> ogra_: the reduced toolchain and pre-built set should happen later today as well
<rsalveti> ogra_: today's tarball is also xz
<rsalveti> with -6e
<ogra_> rsalveti, yup seen :)
<rsalveti> takes quite a while to generate it hehe :-)
<ogra_> only 1.4G
<rsalveti> yeah, step by step
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> 500M or so in the end would be good
<ogra_> rsalveti, did you talk to slangasek ? i didnt see him comment anything after the linker error
<rsalveti> ogra_: nop, and as I said, I'm not convinced we should remove all pre-built toolchains at this point yet
<rsalveti> so I'll just remove the stuff we're not using at least
<ogra_> rsalveti, if we can se should ... from the tarball ... i would say lets keep the git tree completely untouched
<ogra_> s/se/we/
<sergiusens> rsalveti: any reason why cm.dependencies for mako still lists the kernel?
<rsalveti> sergiusens: the kernel source is needed still for the headers
<ogra_> the tarball will be used for autobuilds and we only need the bits for building the supported sets ...
<rsalveti> sergiusens: it's used by some hardware/qcom components
<ogra_> the git tree should have as much as possible for porters
<rsalveti> ogra_: well, we can create a separated tarball with the toolchain once we get a working toolchain from the archive
<sergiusens> rsalveti: let's keep it for now and figure out how to get just the headers in
<ogra_> rsalveti, thats what i mean ;)
<sergiusens> iirc aosp doesn't install the kernel headers by default
<rsalveti> sergiusens: hm, iirc this qcom component is the same from aosp
<rsalveti> might be something cm specific though
<ogra_> we have a headers package as well :)
<rsalveti> but yeah, to be investigated
<rsalveti> sure
<sergiusens> rsalveti: and we do have external/kernel_headers as well
<rsalveti> but I believe these headers are mako specific
<rsalveti> we might try to reuse the headers available from the kernel package as well
<sergiusens> rsalveti: typo in the previous comment, aosp doesn't install kernel sources by default
<rsalveti> will see if I can get something to work based on that later today
<sergiusens> rsalveti: I won't block the patch in any case, just wondering what the result was of the conversation from yesterday :-)
<rsalveti> sergiusens: right, yeah, this will follow, just wanted to get something that works first
<rsalveti> ogra_: problem is that if it's indeed mako specific, it might not be available at the headers package
<rsalveti> had similar issues with panda in the past
<rsalveti> that's why I decided to investigate this later :-)
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> well, no hurry :)
<ogra_> (you two seem to do everything *right now* .... we're not on a race :)
<crix> hello?
<sergiusens> gusch: saw your updates to the bug... I recall the issue and a workaround jhodapp made to get it going (I'm pretty sure it was him). But yeah, the crash has been there for some time.... :-/
<sergiusens> rsalveti: code looks good, building now (had to wait for meeting to end)
<rsalveti> sergiusens: sure
<gusch> sergiusens: the crash is there since the beginning, but the side effect of the flipped preview occured somewhen after the MWC demo image
<sergiusens> gusch: yup, which brings up the question if we should focus on the crash instead
<gusch> sergiusens: that's what I do now ;)
<slangasek> ogra_: I got past the linker error (just needed to add -fuse-ld=gold in the right place), then ran into problems because of libgcc references - which is kind of what I was expecting to find.  We need to build an -> armel cross-compiler to target android specifically
<slangasek> ogra_, rsalveti
<ogra_> yeah
<slangasek> ogra_, rsalveti: and at least for upload to the archive, we would need to solve the use of prebuilt compilers... as distributing those without source is a GPL violation
<rsalveti> right
<ogra_> i doubt we need to build it ... since linaro has one :)
<slangasek> yes we do.
<ogra_> ah, we cant use the linaro one ?
<rsalveti> we can probably use if we grab the sources used to built it
<rsalveti> *build
<ogra_> right
<rsalveti> but yeah, at the archive it'd be better to use our own toolchain
<slangasek> rsalveti: given that we are already building cross-toolchains in the archive for other targets, and we track the Linaro patches for the arm builds, we should build the android toolchain the same way rather than introducing a parallel toolchain source
<jhodapp> sergiusens: yeah, I was helping gusch figure out how to use gdb on the android side
<rsalveti> slangasek: sure, no question about that
<rsalveti> just saying that it's doable to use the prebuilt one if really needed
<rsalveti> just need to find the sources
<rsalveti> slangasek: who can be allocated to do that work?
<slangasek> well, if we're putting it in the archive we also need to *build* the toolchain, not use the prebuilt
<slangasek> anyway
<rsalveti> sure, it'll just force ogra_ to wait until the toolchain is in place
<ogra_> as i said, i'm not in a hurry
<ogra_> lets discuss it at the sprint and do proper planning
<rsalveti> sure, we'd need to get someone to work on this
<ogra_> we wont start raring builds based on that right now ... so it is S material
<rsalveti> yup
<rsalveti> but it's a high prio to be able to spin builds based o S, right?
<ogra_> i personally would prefer if doko could do it, everyone else will need double the time
<rsalveti> at least via cdimage
<ogra_> but i dont know how heavily booked he is
<ogra_> rsalveti, right, but even in S we can live with the jenkins builds in the beginning
<ogra_> i expect the S builds to be bumpy in the beginning anyway
<Oranger> mhall119: You don't do something in particular for core apps to merge branches than "merge + commit + push" ?
<rsalveti> ogra_: right, that's why I said if we want to build them at cdimage
<ogra_> doesnt make them less bumpy :)
<ogra_> we'll have to keep raring building for a while in parallel if we want usable images ... important is that by S release we will not have two parallel builds anymore but can smoothly transition to T this time
<ogra_> thats my major target ...
<ogra_> while i want S builds as early as possible they dont need to be in place on day one imho
<ogra_> (would be a nice to have ... but i have no illusions here)
<sergiusens> plars: http://people.canonical.com/~sergiusens/cm-10.1-20130418-UNOFFICIAL-mako.zip
<slangasek> rsalveti: I need to talk to doko yet about the cross-toolchain requirements and when we can have this done; if you have anyone on your team who can help doko identify the necessary configure arguments for gcc, that will probably let us get it done faster
<rsalveti> plars: got a mako as well?
<rsalveti> plars: just to know in case I need someone else to help me validating stuff
<plars> rsalveti: I do... I just realized something on it though, it's dead again
<rsalveti> plars: :-(
<rsalveti> plars: does it require you to remove the battery as well?
<plars> rsalveti: Its odd, I can leave my galaxy nexus sitting without it being plugged in for a long time and nothing happens, but it seems like the mako dies quicker
<plars> rsalveti: not so far
<rsalveti> slangasek: right, that's fine, linaro produces a build script which is public
<plars> rsalveti: need to take a look at that, could be that I had wifi enabled on one and not the other
<rsalveti> might need a android specific sysroot, need to check that
<plars> rsalveti, sergiusens: let me charge it for 10-15 min then I'll pull down that build and try it
<rsalveti> plars: cool, thanks
<plars> sergiusens: just use that one with today's rootfs?
<plars> sergiusens: what was included in this? what was it intended to fix?
<sergiusens> plars: oh, left a sentence incomplete
<sergiusens> plars: it's using a packaged kernel instead of the one from the android tree for mako
<sergiusens> plars: packaged by the kernel team
<rsalveti> aka ubuntu kernel
<slangasek> rsalveti: can you point me to that build script? :)
<plars> sergiusens: ah, cool
<ogra_> slangasek, the other issue seems to be that the CM kernels seem to not get along with gcc > 4.6 ... we will need the 4.6 in the tree still for porters
<rsalveti> slangasek: yup, looking into it
<rsalveti> ogra_: that's fine, we can produce different tarballs
<ogra_> (not for what we upload to the archive eventually indeed)
<slangasek> ogra_: the kernel team is already building the kernels; we should not be building them as part of the "android" source package, porters should be getting that elsewhere
<ogra_> slangasek, but porters do
<ogra_> so we need that for the community in the git tree still
<slangasek> ogra_: completely irrelevant to the source package question
<ogra_> not in the exported tarballs
<ogra_> just a note :)
<sergiusens> plars: I leave wifi and 2g network on all the time on the maguro and it lasts at least 2 days (less with screen on)
<rsalveti> slangasek: http://android.git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=toolchain/build.git;a=tree
<sergiusens> ogra_: they can add it to their cm.dependencies and we could remove it with no issues
<sergiusens> talking about gcc
<ogra_> sergiusens, ohhh ... good idea !
 * ogra_ didnt think about that
<rsalveti> slangasek: seems everything is there
<mhall119> Oranger: usually Jenkins will automatically merge approved merge proposals into the project's trunk branch for the Core Apps
<rsalveti> sergiusens: yeah, the toolchain will still be available at phablet
<rsalveti> and we can spin a separated tarball with them like ogra_ said
<rsalveti> then we're all good
<ogra_> yeah
<Oranger> mhall119: Oh ok, Jenkins is very usefull... when he is alive :p
<mhall119> yeah, he's been under the weather recently :)
<Oranger> mhall119: Do you know when he will come back ?
<rsalveti> http://android.git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=toolchain/build.git;a=blob;f=README; is also quite informative
<mhall119> Oranger: fginther might now, he may be back now and just churning through his backlog
<Oranger> mhall119: ok, thanks :)
<fginther> Oranger, sorry. the server is back up and running, but there is some additional setup that needs to be done. I've pinged someone to help me. Sorry for the inconvenience.
<rsalveti> sergiusens: I'm +1 regarding the latest patch from janimo
<Oranger> fginther: No it's good ! Thanks you for working hard on it ! ;) Take all the time you need !
<rsalveti> sergiusens: let me know if you want me to apply it
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: hahaha, if I try to boot android with a custom kernel with VT and FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE support, it bootloops
<shadeslayer> ogra_: ^^
<shadeslayer> so fbcon is just plain broken
<rsalveti> yeah, seems a common issue with android based kernels
 * rsalveti bbl
<shadeslayer> hehe
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: interesting.  I have it now where it boots then keeps rebooting
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: same as you
<shadeslayer> yeah it's a bit weird
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: but you can control the brightness via the initrd right
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: yes
<shadeslayer> well
<shadeslayer> I'm kind of out of ideas since fbcon doesn't even work with android
<shadeslayer> clearly enabling fbcon here is an issue
<ogra_> well, you will need a working framebuffer for your Xorg ...  the console is just for getting there
<shadeslayer> true
<ogra_> i still dont get why g_serial doesnt work for you though ... fbcon is often differing by device ... gadget support shouldnt
<shadeslayer> hmm, I'll try with android
<shadeslayer> if g_serial works
<ogra_> note that it kills adb ...
<shadeslayer> yeah that's fine
<ogra_> since that uses the gadget driver too
<shadeslayer> I know :)
<ogra_> if g_serial doesnt work you can also try g_composite as alternative ... i have found devices wheer that one works better
<ogra_> (has additional USB net support)
<shadeslayer> oh
<shadeslayer> hmm, will try
<shadeslayer> ogra_: booted android after enabling g_serial, nothing
<ogra_> with proper console= args on the kernel cmdline ?
<shadeslayer> trying composite
<shadeslayer> nope
<shadeslayer> I just booted it without any arguments
<shadeslayer> trying with console=ttyGS0 now
<shadeslayer> ooooh
<ogra_> yeah, thats needed
<shadeslayer> hmm .. maybe that was just fastboot
 * shadeslayer tries flashing again
<shadeslayer> nope, nothing with console=ttyGS0
<ogra_> nothing in dmesg on the host ?
<shadeslayer> nothing
<shadeslayer> last message is when I was in fastboot
<ogra_> hmm
<shadeslayer> ogra_: CONFIG_USB_CDC_COMPOSITE > is that the composite gadget you're talking about?
<ogra_> yep
<shadeslayer> there's also a CONFIG_USB_G_MULTI
<shadeslayer> which is a "Multifunction Composite Gadget"
<ogra_> never tried that
<ogra_> that likely works only as module and needs options passed
<ogra_> to flick the switches on and off
<shadeslayer> hmm okay
 * shadeslayer tries with CONFIG_USB_CDC_COMPOSITE
<shadeslayer> hah
<shadeslayer> ogra_: compiling with the composite driver is not possible
<moocow_> So, remember that Ubuntu build I got to compile for encore? It flashes alright, but it powers off about 5 seconds later. So, this must be the debug part I heard so much about...
<shadeslayer> ogra_: http://paste.kde.org/727622/
<ogra_> woah
<ogra_> bitter
<shadeslayer> :)
<Chandrakant_B> hello all
<Chandrakant_B> Anyone has tried touch on Pantech Burst or anyone developing it????
<moocow_> Chandrakant_B, if there is a cyanogenmod for it, you could try and build it yourself.
<Chandrakant_B> or just idle
<Chandrakant_B> Does anyone chat here?
<ogra_> only if we have something to say :)
<shadeslayer> ogra_: so what I'm trying now is : copy adbd binary to initramfs and just run the thing after sysfs/proc stuff is mounted
<shadeslayer> maybe, just maybe, it'll work
<shadeslayer> nope, doesn't work
<shadeslayer> :S
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: ogra_ I'm still quite confused as to what s3cfb.bootloaderfb is exactly
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: what device are you on
<shadeslayer> Nexus 10
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: are you trying to get X running
<shadeslayer> uh, at the end of the day, yes
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: if so, I doubt there is a good enough fb driver
<ChickenCutlass> that X needs
<shadeslayer> oh? Isn't there the xf86 arm soc driver?
<ogra_> armsoc should work
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: you need one for that specific chip
<ChickenCutlass> ogra_: it might
<ogra_> you will need the mali GLES libs
<ogra_> ChickenCutlass, its the same board as in the chromebook
<shadeslayer> right ^ and we can get that from the android sources?
<ogra_> i'm using armsoc here
<ogra_> yep
<ChickenCutlass> ok good
<shadeslayer> ogra_: oh ... if the rootfs is armhf, won't that cause issues? ( or is the mali gles built against armhf? or can armel libs run on armhf? )
<ogra_> you can use the armhf chromebook libs ...
<shadeslayer> oooh awesome
<shadeslayer> mmmm
<shadeslayer> android not booting anymore :P
<shadeslayer> eh wait
<shadeslayer> ogra_: can't I just use your kernel + initrd
<shadeslayer> since it's the same board
<ogra_> i use the preinstalled kernel on my chromebook
<shadeslayer> oh
<ogra_> havent updated ever
<shadeslayer> wait, you used the one that came with your chromebook?
<ogra_> but hrw has a kernel iirc, talk to him in #ubuntu-arm
<shadeslayer> ack
<ogra_> yes, still using it
<ogra_> i even used the chrubuntu script to switch from chromeos to ubuntu ...
<ogra_> (then i mostly re-did the userspace as raring though)
<rumba> hi
<shadeslayer> heh
<shadeslayer> I feel this is going to be one of those long nights
<Oranger> mhall119: I'm sorry i'll can't be at the meeting at 19:30 UTC
<mhall119> Oranger: that's okay, I'll see if anybody else shows up and is interested in helping
<mhall119> otherwise you and I can just keep chatting anytime in here
<Oranger> mhall119: Ok :) I hope that someone will be there
<mhall119> me too, we can use more devs
<Oranger> bye
<hashLAB> Everywhere it says wifi is possible. How to configure wifi?
<awe_> hashLAB, you can use the network indicator to select an access point to connnect to
<awe_> if secure, you can enter a password
<hashLAB> No, there it says Empty!
<awe_> there's not much else implemented for wifi control at this point
<mhall119> kenvandine: is qtdeclarative5-accounts-plugin
<awe_> your're other option is to use phablet-deploy-networking
<mhall119> not built for quantal armhf?
<awe_> which will copy a NM profile from your laptop to the device
<hashLAB> Is wifi only working with quantal?
<awe_> it should work on both our quantal & raring images
<hashLAB> okay thanks
<awe_> np
<kenvandine> mhall119, it is somewhere...
<kenvandine> mhall119, in  ppa:super-friends/ppa
<mhall119> thanks kenvandine
<kenvandine> mhall119, np
<perat> hi all
<perat> could somebody help me to manage problem with android restoring?
<mhall119> kenvandine: did you see my video of the facebook app?
<perat> first, a run adb reboot-bootloader
<perat> and in bootloader mode device is not found
<perat> lsusb:
<perat> Bus 002 Device 008: ID 04e8:685d Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd
<perat> sudo adb devices gives me nothing
<perat> I use Ubuntu 13.04
<ogra_> there is no adb in bootloader mode
<perat> my device Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 (GT-N8000)
<mhall119> kenvandine: any ETA on getting a UOA front-end on the phablet so I can give it my Facebook account?
<perat> when I run takju-jdq39$ ./flash-all.sh I'm getting only < waiting for device >
<perat> what can I do to bring it up?
<ogra_> what do you actually try to install there ? does samsugn actually offer original images for self install ?
<kscloud> Anyone help me with an SDK issue?
<perat> sorry, I triyed to run firmware for my phone))
<perat> instead of tablet image
<kscloud> I was looking at mhall119's app development thing and noticed his first step was to select an ubuntu app or something to that effect, but my install of the sdk doesn't have this option. Nor does it have Qt Quick 2.
<kenvandine> mhall119, not really, designs were just ready last week
<kenvandine> and work has started on read/write qml bindings
<kenvandine> mhall119, want to test my script?
<kenvandine> mhall119, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5719686/
<kscloud> It's 13.04 btw
<kenvandine> mhall119, save that as something like uoa-create
<kenvandine> then
<kenvandine> ./uoa-create SERVICE USERNAME
<kenvandine> like
<kenvandine> ./uoa-create twitter kenvandine
<kenvandine> mhall119, it only handles facebook and twitter for now
<kscloud> Would reinstalling fix the issue?
<mhall119> kenvandine: thanks, I'll give it a try later
<kenvandine> mhall119, cool, let me know how it goes
<mhall119> will do
<kenvandine> i'm going to blog soon with details on how to do it
<WarlorZ> hi folks, can someone please tell me what code name package i need to get for the ubuntu i would like to try out too : Samsung I9250 ( south africa)
<kenvandine> after i get it in the daily image
<mhall119> kscloud: did you follow the instructions on developer.ubuntu.com to get the SDK packages?
<mhall119> kscloud: http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
<mhall119> you'll need to add some PPA's and install Qt packages + Ubuntu plugins
<kscloud> Some time ago, when it first came out (this was a 12.10 install)
<mhall119> kscloud: oh, then you'll need to remove and purge those old packages
<mhall119> otherwise they'll conflict with the new ones
<kscloud> Ah, didn't think of that. Is ppa-purge default or just in the repos?
<mhall119> kscloud: don't know, probably in the repos though
<kscloud> Thanks mhall119
<The_Matrix_> Am I alowed to ask a question regarding ubuntu touch app development? I am playing with the sdk and I don't know how to accomplish something. If no, can someone lead me to the right channel.
<pmcgowan> The_Matrix_: you can ask here
<pmcgowan> although most sdk guys done for the day
<The_Matrix_> I just want to accomplish something. I want to retrive text from one file and display it on the main program. How do I do this?
<WarlorZ> hi folks, can someone please tell me what code name package i need to get for the ubuntu i would like to try out too : Samsung I9250 ( south africa) ?
<The_Matrix_> Can I adapt this the code from blackberry to use in this case: http://supportforums.blackberry.com/t5/Cascades-Development/Calling-an-element-id-from-one-QML-file-to-another/td-p/1969775
<kenvandine> WarlorZ, i don't see that on the list of ports
<kenvandine> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<mhall119> ogra_: rsalveti: how would I tell the phablet to open text documents using a specific app?
<rsalveti> mhall119: not sure, kaleo might know better
<mhall119> kaleo: ^^ ?
<mhall119> the ubuntu-docviewer-app can accept a filepath as it's first argument now, and will display it's contents
<mhall119> and I believe the file manager can request that a filepath be opened by an external app
<mhall119> I just need to connect the dots
<pmcgowan> mhall119: the basic model in is the other way around which is why we do not plan to use a filebrowser afaik
<pmcgowan> mhall119: I dont  think we have file type associations yet, part of overall content management
<mhall119> pmcgowan: well filebrowser is just one example, we'll need to do the same with the browser when downloading a PDF for example
<pmcgowan> mhall119: right, then we will have associations so the content goes to the app that can deal with it
<sergiusens> mhall119: http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2013/04/testing-ubunutu-touch-images-now-with.html
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: rsalveti ^^
<mhall119> sergiusens: just saw it on G+
<rsalveti> sergiusens: cool
<user82> hello all. is the problem still existing that a lg nexus 4 can only be completely turned off via adb?
<fginther> mhall119, Oranger, popey, nik90, the jenkins server is back online and has completed processing the merges that were pending. Please let me know if you find anything amiss.
<popey> thanks fginther !
<mhall119> fginther: I noticed, thanks a bunch for getting him back online
<fginther> mhall119, np
<mhall119> popey: is the weather team blocked on anything atm?
<popey> mhall119: i think they feel blocked on design, but I expect a conversation with design on the hangout to alleviate that worry
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> popey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Blockers
<mhall119> can you look over that and let me know if I'm missing anything?
<popey> oh nicely done, will look over in the morning, sleep is calling
<mhall119> g'night popey
<nik90> fginther: thanks a lot..I noticed the automatic merges by jenkins.
<rsalveti> plars: mind giving http://people.canonical.com/~rsalveti/cm-10.1-20130418-UNOFFICIAL-mako.zip a try?
<moocow1452> Brunch for the Nook Color compiles, but crashes upon flashing and needs to be manually restored. http://paste.ubuntu.com/5719982/ Any ideas?
<rsalveti> plars: this one is with the ubuntu kernel
<rsalveti> basically similar to what sergiusens created earlier today
<rsalveti> but this is with latest everything, and works just fine (clean build as well)
<kdub> yay, raring images
 * kdub updates mir
<moocow1452> Anyone want to help with my Nook Build?
<plars> rsalveti: does this look right?
<plars> <5>[    0.000000] Linux version 3.4.0-0-nexus4 (buildd@sigbin) (gcc version 4.7.3 (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.7.2-23ubuntu2) ) #1-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Fri Apr 12 17:11:47 UTC 2013
<plars> rsalveti: boots, spot checking a few things I don't see anything better or worse than the stuff I tested in the same image earlier
<plars> rsalveti: just looking at functionality (wifi, camera, etc)
<rsalveti> plars: right, yeah
<rsalveti> it should behave exactly the same :-)
<mhall119> balloons: still around?
#ubuntu-touch 2013-04-19
<sergiusens> plars: I wonder what went wrong with the image I sent you...
<mhall119> sergiusens: geez, I download built 84 like an hour ago, intending to upgrade now, but you're already up to build 86
<sergiusens> mhall119: don't know who triggered it, shouldn't of happened I believe
<plars> sergiusens: no idea, I installed it the same way
<plars> sergiusens: rsalveti was talking about testing something that generates the changelog I think? Maybe he was trying that?
<sergiusens> plars: yeah but he said he'd cancel
<dijzon> hello world
<dijzon> ubuntu on droid razer m?
<mhall119> sergiusens: so I tried the raring image, but had no wireless networks listed
<mhall119> on a nexus 7
<balloons> mhall119, yes?
<mhall119> balloons: so I was trying the raring images
<mhall119> first of all, I saw it downloading some quantal- files even when I used phablet-flash --alternate-settings raring_settings.py
<mhall119> second, it didn't seem that my networking was working on raring on my nexus 7
<balloons> mhall119, yes, the "raring" images are a mix of raring and quantal
<balloons> networking not working sounds like a bug.. but what do you mean not working? no hw showing at all?
<rsalveti> sergiusens: build 86 I triggered to test the changelog changes, as I said
<rsalveti> sergiusens: I said I could cancel it as well, and the last one I just let it finish to have a record that it worked completely
<sergiusens> rsalveti: ack... thought you would cancel both :-)
<rsalveti> mhall119: probably because the android files are still named as quantal
<rsalveti> sergiusens: got it :-)
<tgm4883> Does this page actually get updated?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes#Nexus_7
<sergiusens> mhall119: the download says quantal for the armel files... that's the android side and it is completely generic, the have a series name just because cdimage requires it
<rsalveti> sergiusens: any issues? just to know if people are tracking builds somehow differently
<rsalveti> seems it also creates an entry at the qatracker
<sergiusens> rsalveti: just mixed up people doing the raring testing ;-)
<rsalveti> sergiusens: lol, got it, sorry for that
<tgm4883> it seems like zero progress is being made. The same issues seem to still persist and I don't see (or i've missed) any changes that have been made that looks like progress
<sergiusens> rsalveti: we can't trigger builds anymore as easily as before... I'll create a new playground
<rsalveti> sergiusens: got it
<rsalveti> better canceling them in case of tests
<sergiusens> mhall119: does nmcli work from an adb root; adb shell; ubuntu_chroot shell ?
<sergiusens> rsalveti: wifi seems to be broken on nexus 7... I can't download the raring images from where I am now, not enough BW
<wilee-nilee> mhall119, How was the raring desktop I had installed it before on my nexus 7 before it was part of the touch downloads a bit problematic I found?
<dijzon> just strip the driver stacks out of ubuntu and droid
<rsalveti> sergiusens: I can download it, but not sure what to do with it as I have no hardware to test
<dijzon> for wifi gsm cdma etc
<rsalveti> sergiusens: is that raring specific?
<dijzon> based on arms v6 v7
<sergiusens> rsalveti: apparently
<sergiusens> I'll bbl and at least test on manta
<rsalveti> I can give that a shot as well
<mhall119> sergiusens: I'm back on quantal already
<balloons> :-(
<mhall119> sorry, I've got apps to try out :)
<mhall119> wilee-nilee: other than desktop Unity not being touch-friendly, I didn't have any problems with the desktop image
<wilee-nilee> mhall119, Cool thanks I will have to try it out again.
<sergiusens> mhall119: so quantal works, raring doesn't?
<sergiusens> mhall119: balloons rsalveti well I found the cause at least https://launchpad.net/~phablet-team/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=network-manager&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=raring
<sergiusens> rsalveti: next time we do this we should probably bump the version to ridiculous numbers...
<balloons> lololol
<balloons> same thing happened with autopilot
<rsalveti> sergiusens: oh, right
<rsalveti> sergiusens: walking target
<rsalveti> sergiusens: can rebase it again, or are you doing it?
<sergiusens> rsalveti: yup, same thing with nux, pulseaudio
<rsalveti> lovely
<sergiusens> rsalveti: let me fix nux
<sergiusens> rsalveti: can you do nm?
<rsalveti> sergiusens: ok, can take care of nm and pulse
<rsalveti> quite a few others as well
<rsalveti> and gallery-app is ftbfs
<sergiusens> rsalveti: resolvconf doesn't matter
<rsalveti> sergiusens: yeah
<sergiusens> rsalveti: yeah.. all those fail I guess because the packaging changed to be any intead of armhh (except for gallery)
<rsalveti> sergiusens: right
<rsalveti> sergiusens: and lightdm?
<t1mp> hi
<t1mp> I wiped /data on my galaxy nexus because it was full, following http://askubuntu.com/questions/279726/how-to-wipe-data-on-nexus-4-to-install-ubuntu-touch
<t1mp> now I can only boot to the bootloader and the phablet-flash script cannot find my device to install a new image
<t1mp> any suggestions how I can get the new image on the device? fastboot does work
<ryzky> hi
<ryzky> can u tell me, all type smartphone for ubuntu touch
<ryzky> i have lenovo k860, can i install to that phone?
<dholbach> good morning
<tvoss> dholbach, good morning :)
<dholbach> hey tvoss
<jibel> I get bug 1170600 with raring build #86 on a grouper, is it known?
<ubot5> bug 1170600 in touch-preview-images "Network list is empty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1170600
<ogra_> jibel, hmm, i thought i heard sergiusens say it is fixed
<jibel> ogra_, okay, I'll check again with today's build
<UserError1> I have the original image
<UserError1> How do i push on the VZW gnex
<UserError1> it seems to have over-written my recovery
<UserError1> i can only boot to adb usb
<UserError1> errr
<UserError1> sorry
<UserError1> odin
<UserError1> and the ubuntu touch original image
<popey> Getting a problem when installing the ubuntu browser autopilot package on the nexus 7 image.. http://paste.ubuntu.com/5721050/
<popey> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ubuntu-browser_0.13~quantal1_armhf.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/qt5/qml/Ubuntu/Browser/qmldir', which is also in package webbrowser-app 0.19
<UserError1> how do i get a terminal on this?
<popey> UserError1: you can ssh in from another machine, a terminal app is in the works
<aquarius> netcurli, ping about CachingAudio
<netcurli> aquarius: pong
<aquarius> netcurli, wouldn't it be nice if there were a CachingAudio QML object, which worked exactly like Audio, but also saved any network thing it's playing to the filesystem, and when given that URL again, played it from the cache rather than from the network?
<aquarius> netcurli, I'd like this for my U1 music streaming app, and it occurred to me that you'd like it for CatchPodder too :)
<aquarius> netcurli, so I thought...maybe we should put a spec together for how it should work, do an implementation, and then lobby for it to enter the Ubuntu SDK and maybe go upstream?
<netcurli> aquarius: yeah, I think, I could use something like this for CatchPodder
<aquarius> I thought so :)
<aquarius> and I observe that you have some plugin-writing skillz ;)
<UserError1> is there an SDK
<UserError1> so i can just whip up a terminal in Qt qml and python 3.3
<UserError1> would seriously take 10mins to be able to pass shutil commands
<sergiusens> jibel: ogra_ raring? Yes network manager got updated in the archive and superseeded our custom package
<sergiusens> rsalveti: and me updated a couple of packages last night that had this issue... going to check if it made it in today' build
<netcurli> aquarius: how would writing a spec together actually work? do you want to define what you want first and I look at it then and maybe add something to it?
<sergiusens> ogra_: building new image, didn't make it in
<jibel> sergiusens, I just flashed a grouper with phablet-flash, latest raring_settings.py from people.c.c/~sergiusens/, and raring build #87, same problem, network list either displays "Empty!" or is completely black
<aquarius> netcurli, sure. I mean, basically I want what's above: if I give it a URL, it plays it and spools it to disk at the same time, and then playing that URL again just plays from cache without ever touching the network. However, I think I'd like to optionally be able to specify a "cache key" to use instead of the URL (for oauth URLs), and should there be a way to ask what's *in* the cache? (So you can tell which of
<aquarius> your sound resources are available if you're offline?) What do you think?
<netcurli> aquarius: so for the podcast app I need also the mechanic to download/cache a file without playing it at the same time to be able to play it later on. do you think, this should be also handled by such a CachingAudio object or if I should use a seperate download manager object for that?
<aquarius> netcurli, hrm. Interesting question. There's obviously benefit in having CachingAudio be able to do that, because then you don't need two downloaders... but... it is hard to see how it is in any way an Audio object if it is possible to use it to download stuff and never actually play any of it ;)
<aquarius> that is: I think that would harm its chances of getting integrated upstream
<aquarius> but the whole point of this exercise is to make it easy to play network audio from QML and get caching for free -- the instant we start saying "well, let's have a plugin thing that audio can optionally use", the answer becomes "write this in C++, no-one should be allowed to write pure QML apps" and then there is an argument :P)
<UserError1> Is there a file manager
<UserError1> with root privs
<netcurli> aquarius: so, do we want to try to use the existing Audio qml object and extend it with caching functionality or would it be better to use a more generic qt object to do the audio playback?
<aquarius> netcurli, my thought was that CachingAudio would be an Audio but with extra caching, rather than reimplementing the whole thing -- that way, you can just use CachingAudio from the start *even if you don't want to do caching just yet*, like an ordinary Audio
<popey> UserError1: yes, we have a file manager app in development
<UserError1> Ok let me rephrase, what is the simplest way to integrate with any of the preinstalled scripting langs
<UserError1> i'm looking through the fs on hdd while on touch on gnex
<UserError1> i see a lot to work with
<netcurli> aquarius: how would the seek method work on a CachingAudio object? I mean, the download part could just continue to write from the beginning and only the playback starts at the new position. Or we might want to somehow cache also from that new position on and combine that later with the rest
<aquarius> netcurli, see, this is why I'm talking to you about it rather than just doing it.
<aquarius> netcurli, I'm not sure about seeking. Maybe if you're in "cache this URL download as well" mode, you're not allowed to seek to uncached bits?
<ogra_> sergiusens, ok, fine
<ogra_> shadeslayer, hey ... mind trying something to get ttyGS0 to work ?
<ogra_> shadeslayer, try using a kernel with g_serial enabled, have console=tty0 and break=top set on your kernel cmdline and use this initrd http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/initrd.img ... you have to be very patient until ttyGS0 gets writable (i have to retry my screen command to attach to it for 1-2min here to get a prompt)
<netcurli> aquarius: I think, I'll set up some basic stuff to extend a simple qml Audio object to see what other things we have to think about
<aquarius> netcurli, that'd be cool. (I am hampered in this by not being able to write C++ :))
<shadeslayer> ogra_: ofcourse
<shadeslayer> give me a couple of minutes
<ogra_> take your time :)
<shadeslayer> ogra_: what's special about the initrd?
<ogra_> i hacked the panic function
<shadeslayer> and preferably md5sum plz
<ogra_> forcing it to use ttyGS0
<ogra_> 890f0cc867bdc000ea11df7f9a5861b5
<shadeslayer> awesome
<shadeslayer> kernel is compiling
<shadeslayer> as for ttyGS0 coming up, I usually just rebooted after 30-45 seconds
<shadeslayer> since nothing seemed to be happening
<ogra_> well, it doesnt work using console=ttyGS0
<ogra_> and i havent managed yet to actually redirect the console to it either ... it will only serve for login
<ogra_> s/login/shell access/
<shadeslayer> roger roger
<shadeslayer> my network is broken again I think
<shadeslayer> tracerouting xbox.com does not end after 30 hops
<linuxium> wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install - Step 2 Point 1 - "Power button + volume up + volume down" for Nexus 4 should just read "Power button +  volume down"
<ogra_> linuxium, its a wiki ... fix it :)
<shadeslayer> now to wait for 3-4 minutes
<ogra_> booting already ?
<davmor2> ogra_: I think it is a generic page it's not just for the nexus 4 but for all the nexuses and some are different
<linuxium> @ogra_the wiki says " If you've got any troubles or questions with these installation instructions, there's a community willing to help" - I don't want to spoil it 8-)
<shadeslayer> ogra_: heh, actually, nope :P
<ogra_> davmor2, linuxium, hmm, then there should probably be subsections per device
<linuxium> ogra - good idea - lts appeal to the lowest common denominator
<shadeslayer> ogra_: does the rootfs need to be flashed as well?
<shadeslayer> because with your initrd it just reboots after a bit
<ogra_> do you use g_serial or Gcomposite ?
<shadeslayer> g_serial
<ogra_> g_composite
<ogra_> i tested with g_composite over here ... it shouldnt reboot though
<shadeslayer> you said g_serial earier :OP
<ogra_> shouldnt matter at all
<shadeslayer> I see
<ogra_> both create GS0
<ogra_> are you using break=top ?
<shadeslayer> yes
<ogra_> and didnt change the console= entry from whatever is the default
<shadeslayer> I used console=ttyGS0
<ogra_> dont do that :)
<ogra_> change it to tty0
<shadeslayer> heh okay :D
<ogra_> GS0 comes up to late to actually be used for /dev/console
<ogra_> thats the whole point of my hack :)
<shadeslayer> ah
<shadeslayer> oh
<shadeslayer> hmm
<shadeslayer> interesting
<shadeslayer> ogra_: http://i.imgur.com/BMlNeI3.png
<shadeslayer> I'll disable that for now
<ogra_> the wlan card ?
<shadeslayer> yep
<shadeslayer> it has hardcoded paths to firmware
<ogra_> shouldnt do any harm
<ogra_> will just not properly initialize the card ,,, but shouldnt cause a panic
<shadeslayer> ogra_: nope, if I enable VT + fbcon it just reboots
<ogra_> shadeslayer, ?
<ogra_> what are you doing there
<ogra_> you only need g_serial ... leave the cmdline untouched apart from adding break=top and use my initrd
<shadeslayer> okay
<ogra_> if that doesnt work and you have something like console= (with no value) on the commandline, then also set console=tty0
<shadeslayer> uh, right now it's booting with "vmalloc=512M debug_core.break_on_panic=0 debug_core.break_on_exception=0 no_console_suspend s3c2410-wdt.tmr_atboot=1 s3c2410-wdt.tmr_margin=30 break=top"
<ogra_> once the device is up with black screen try: screen /dev/ttyACM0 115200
<ogra_> and do that over and over if you get "cant find pty" or "device readonly"
<ogra_> it should eventually start to work
<ogra_> yeah, add a console=tty0 to that line so the initrd has a default console to attach to
<shadeslayer> and should I enable CONFIG_VT and fbcon? or should I leave those out for now?
<ogra_> dont touch them
<ogra_> you only want g_serial or composite
<shadeslayer> okay
<tsdgeos> kgunn: you changed "[aacid] review FilterGrid: TODO" to "[aacid] review FilterGrid: DONE", I have not had time to look at it yet
<dragonkeeper> anyone ported this to an atrix 4g yet ?
<shadeslayer> ogra_: nope, still doesn't work
<shadeslayer> ogra_: it boots the kernel and then reboots into android
<shadeslayer> ( I don't flash boot.img, I merely do fastboot zImage initrd.img )
<shadeslayer> er, fastboot boot zImage initrd.img
<shadeslayer> no /dev/ttyACM0 comes up
<mhall119> didrocks: ping
<ogra_> shadeslayer, didnt you have ACM0 come up at some point yesterday ?
<didrocks> hey mhall119
<shadeslayer> ogra_: uh, nope?
<ogra_> i though you did say it came up but the device rebooted instantly
<didrocks> mhall119: no blog post? I feel so sad now :)
<ogra_> (you should better flash boot.img though)
<didrocks> mhall119: but your fingers probably bless you ;)
<mhall119> didrocks: I know, 2 days in a row without one
<didrocks> incredible ;)
<mhall119> didrocks: I need some packaging help
<didrocks> mhall119: sure, what's up?
<mhall119> https://code.launchpad.net/~chocanto/ubuntu-docviewer-app/plainText/+merge/159440 is a mostly QML app, but they had to write a small C++ wrapper for launching it
<mhall119> the code is in ./launcher/src/main.cpp
<mhall119> but I'm not sure how to get it build by debuild
<didrocks> mhall119: let me look, you have some cmake/autotools files I guess?
<ogra_> shadeslayer, this must work, i dont get why it doesnt for you .... but seems you do something wrong with enabling the driver
<mhall119> my process is to run "qmake ./launcher/src/docviewer-launcher.pro && make
<didrocks> ah qmake
<didrocks> not really familiar with it
<mhall119> it seems to look at the .pro file and generate a ./Makefile for make
<didrocks> mhall119: I think you need a .pro file in the root
<didrocks> so that debuild detect that you are using it
<didrocks> mhall119: let me look at the qmake backend
<didrocks> (for debhelper)
<mhall119> didrocks: would it be easier to just checkin the Makefile?
<didrocks> mhall119: you would still need a Makefile at the root of the package :)
<shadeslayer> ogra_: "Serial Gadget (with CDC ACM and CDC OBEX support) (USB_G_SERIAL)" thats what I enable
<didrocks> mhall119: and depends on how much you will have it to change
<mhall119> didrocks: right, that's where qmake puts it
<shadeslayer> ogra_: does it work for your nexus 10?
<mhall119> I don't think it will change much, and hopefully this wrapper will be replaced by something from the SDK team sometime before October
<didrocks>        my @projects=glob($this->get_sourcepath('*.pro'));
<didrocks> mhall119: that's it, debhhelper wants a .pro at the root dir ^
<ogra_> i dont have a nexus10, but it shouldnt make any difference ... if your kernel has a serial gadget ttyACM0 *must* show up at some point in dmesg
<didrocks> now, let's see how with qmake you can have a .pro
<shadeslayer> except it doesn't :P
<didrocks> and inlude the other .pro in a subddir
<kenvandine> mhall119, don't check the makefile in.... it gets stuff that is specific to the install in it
<didrocks> kenvandine: you mean, it's not a generic makefile? :p
<mhall119> kenvandine: thanks, good to know
<kenvandine> of course not :)
<kenvandine> it could have your arch specific libdir, etc
<ogra_> shadeslayer, you definitely have something wrong in the kernel
<ogra_> no matter if you use my or any other initrd, ttyACM0 *must* come up ... so i would suggest changing to g_serial
<shadeslayer> I can post my .config if that makes a difference?
<shadeslayer> I have been using g_serial
<shadeslayer> I'll try CONFIG_USB_CDC_COMPOSITE now
<ogra_> yeah
<shadeslayer> did I mention g_serial is *huge*
<ogra_> make sure to have it compiled in indeed ... modules wont work
<didrocks> mhall119: ok, I think I got it
<didrocks> mhall119: want to branch the MP and propose it?
<mhall119> didrocks: branch what?
<didrocks> mhall119: lp:~chocanto/ubuntu-docviewer-app/plainText
<didrocks> mhall119: I started from this one
<shadeslayer> ogra_: ofcourse
<didrocks> not sure if trunk had that, let me check :p
<mhall119> didrocks: ok, that's not in trunk yet, so we'll need to get your changes into it
<didrocks> mhall119: yep, so I can make a MP agianst that branch if you want
<mhall119> didrocks: yes please
<mhall119> then I'll work with Oranger when he's online to get it merged and get his MP approved
<mhall119> thanks for the help didrocks
<didrocks> mhall119: yw ;)
 * didrocks renames the .pro file to something else than foo.pro :p
<ogra_> bar.pro ?
<didrocks> ogra_: how did you guess it? :p
<ogra_> :)
<didrocks> mhall119: there is some cpp erreur in the main function, but it's not linked to that change FYI
<didrocks> with a beautiful:
<didrocks> cc1plus: some warnings being treated as errors
<didrocks> :)
<mhall119> didrocks: huh, it was working for me from ./launcher/src/docviewer-launcher.pro
<didrocks> mhall119: yeah, with direct "make"
<didrocks> mhall119: not with distro flags :)
<mhall119> ah, ok
<mhall119> I'll have him fix that
<mhall119> looks like it's on some error handling code that just prints the error
<didrocks> mhall119: yep
<didrocks> mhall119: https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubuntu-docviewer-app/build-fix/+merge/159823 FYI
<mhall119> ok, thanks again didrocks
<kgunn> tsdgeos: ack...let's chat at standup
<didrocks> yw ;)
<shadeslayer> ogra_: nopety nope
<ogra_> well, get your kernel fixed first ... else my initrd is moot
<shadeslayer> not sure how to do that since I basically do : make manta_defconfig, enable the composite driver, and add console=tty0 break=top to the boot parameters
<shadeslayer> and then all it shows is the google logo and no /dev/ttyACM0
<ogra_> what does your PC show in dmesg if you boot ... nothing at all ?
<shadeslayer> nothing at all indeed
<ogra_> well, then your composite device doesnt work ...
<ogra_> you should see an USB nic as well as ttyACM0 come up
<ogra_> i suspect there is still something wrong with your config
<polarrat> hi
<polarrat> anyone here?
<shadeslayer> ogra_: config : http://paste.kde.org/728336
<ogra_> shadeslayer, CONFIG_USB_ACM=y
<ogra_> try that one
<ogra_> :)
<shadeslayer> last try, then I have to go :P
<ogra_> yours has it as "not set"
<shadeslayer> yeah
 * shadeslayer crosses fingers
<shadeslayer> hah nope
<ogra_> nothing in dmesg ?
<shadeslayer> just reboots
<shadeslayer> nope
<shadeslayer> loads for about 20 seconds
<ogra_> :(
<shadeslayer> then reboots
<ogra_> that sounds liek kernel panicking
<shadeslayer> :S
<shadeslayer> lets continue in another 90 minutes?
 * ogra_ really needs some of these devices
<shadeslayer> will ping you once I get back
<ogra_> i'm around
<shadeslayer> cool :)
<shadeslayer> ogra_: btw I thought it was break=y
<shadeslayer> could be wrong though
<ogra_> shadeslayer, you are :)
<raj_> hi
<shadeslayer> :)
<ogra_> at least for ubuntu initrds
<raj_> I want to install ubuntu in my samsung 7 inch tacb
<ogra_> break takes "top", "premount" and "bottom" as args
<shadeslayer> yeah, just read /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init
<ogra_> (probably more that i dont know off the top of my head)
<raj_> is there any one to help me
<ogra_> raj_, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices ... if it is not there you will have to do a port yourself
<raj_> port
<raj_> port is creating my installer right
<raj_> my own installer right
<ogra_> read the porting wikipage
<ogra_> (its in the channel topic)
<rsalveti> pmcgowan: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/daily-preinstalled/20130419.1/quantal-preinstalled.changelog
<rsalveti> pmcgowan: seems changelog is working properly
<ogra_> heh
<rsalveti> * Automatic build of revision 38 is a bit annoying
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> thats completely pointless
<rsalveti> it should contain whatever was available at the bzr log
<pmcgowan> rsalveti: right, wheres the real change?
<ogra_> but i guess you wont get anything better if the autobuilder doesnt produce proper entries
<ogra_> smells messy to me
<ogra_> pmcgowan, likely in the bzr tree ...
<ogra_> pmcgowan,  that would need fxing in the autobuild stuff for packages ...
<rsalveti> pmcgowan: in the bzr tree
<rsalveti> autobuild needs fixing
<pmcgowan> be nice to fix
<pmcgowan> k
<ogra_> it should list the commits between two tags
<rsalveti> didrocks: are you planning to fix that for the community apps ppa as well?
<ogra_> thats definitely a probalm in general ...
<ogra_> given that these packages will enter the archive
<rsalveti> right
<didrocks> rsalveti: what's this?
<didrocks> rsalveti: it's not at all something we daily release
<didrocks> pmcgowan: ^
<didrocks> I even didn't hear about those before today as the list of projects we should look at
<mhall119> rsalveti: what's wrong with the community apps ppa?
<rsalveti> mhall119: the auto package release changelog
<ogra_> mhall119, the changes dont show up in debian/changes
<rsalveti> mhall119: it's useless :-)
<rsalveti> didrocks: might be handled by mhall119 then
<ogra_> mhall119, see http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/daily-preinstalled/20130419.1/quantal-preinstalled.changelog
<ogra_> "automatic build of foo"
<mhall119> fginther: ^^ is this something that would be changed in jenkins?
<pmcgowan> didrocks: what are you guys figuring out
<didrocks> pmcgowan: just that it's not handled by daily release :)
<didrocks> but I think it should
<pmcgowan> +1
<ogra_> sudo reboot
<ogra_> bah !
<ogra_> i never succeed rebooting the internet :(
<didrocks> rsalveti: btw, do you have time for a small hangout? there is some changes needed
<didrocks> in the iso
<didrocks> ogra_ as well :)
<ogra_> iso ?
<ogra_> dont scare me !
<ogra_> :)
<didrocks> ogra_: you should be, you tried to reboot the Internet! :)
<ogra_> one day i'll succeed !!!
<ogra_> muhahah
<didrocks> :p
<ZDmitry> Hi. Do soft keyboard in ubuntu touch generate QKeyEvent?
<ZDmitry> Or how I can catch key event from soft keyboard?
<rsalveti> didrocks: sure, give me the link
 * ogra_ cant hangout from here :(
<ogra_> i could mumble
<didrocks> rsalveti: mumble then?
<mhall119> tmoenicke: ^^ can you answer ZDmitry's question?
<rsalveti> didrocks: alright
<didrocks> ogra_: coming?
<ogra_> which room ?
<ogra_> i'm on the server :)
<didrocks> ogra_: PS -> Core
<tmoenicke> ZDmitry: it sends QInputMethodEvent
<ZDmitry> <tmoenicke>, thanks
<fginther> mhall119, those changelog messages are added when jenkins dputs to the ppa
<kenvandine> mhall119, did you run that script on a quantal or raring build?
 * kenvandine is wondering if it works on raring :)
<polarrat> Hi....If I install Ubuntu on Nexus4, can I run most application that run on Ubuntu PC or are there serious limitations?
<mhall119> kenvandine: which script? the one for adding accounts?
<kenvandine> mhall119, yeah
 * kenvandine isn't sure what build of signon-ui is in the raring image
<mhall119> polarrat: no, most apps won't run without X11, and those that will but aren't designed for Touch will be mostly a pain to use
<mhall119> kenvandine: it was a quantal image, the raring image couldn't use wifi
<kenvandine> ok
<mhall119> tmoenicke: any progress on that InverseMouseArea bug?  It's driving me crazy
<polarrat> In that case, what are the cool applications that will run.
<mhall119> polarrat: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Collection for some of the apps being done by independend developers
<mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps for apps being done in a collaboration between canonical and community devs
<mhall119> and of course the default apps like gallery and notes that come with the Ubuntu Touch preview image
<tmoenicke> mhall119: I have asked for an N7 to investigate further
<mhall119> tmoenicke: I have an n7, can I do something for you?
<tmoenicke> mhall119: thanks for the offer. there should be one on the way afaik
<mhall119> ok, cool
<tmoenicke> mhall119: actually, maybe i could email you some packages and you install it on the N7 and send me the logfile?
<mhall119> tmoenicke: sure
<cyphermox> sergiusens: can you tell me more about qmenumodel and indicator-network?
<cyphermox> I'm trying to understand what qmenumodel is used for
<sergiusens> cyphermox: renato is your guy
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> renato: ^ ?
<olivier__> Hi guys, does any of you know what kind of video types ubuntu touch will support by default?
<olivier__> if I put video content on my Ubuntu phone and would like to watch it
<popey> olivier__: jhodapp may be able to help here
<olivier__> When will I be able to use a phone with Ubuntu Touch and convergence with my desktop (via dock or something)?
<olivier__> are there any predictions on that?
<olivier__> are there deals with any hardware manufacturers? Or is that all still a secret?
<olivier__> if I buy a Nexus now can I expect to be able to buy a dock for desktop convergence later?
<pmcgowan> olivier__: no deals have been announced with manufacturers yet
<pmcgowan> olivier__: for the conergence which is more 14.04 timeframe, it would likely be a new device
<olivier__> thanks :)
<olivier__> okay cool. but canonical is working together with HP, Lenovo and Dell, right?
<olivier__> maybe they can make a deal with them...
<olivier__> Lenovo is moving to the mobile market
<olivier__> sorry for the "maybe". I just can't wait for Ubuntu Touch to come out
<olivier__> a nice feature for ubuntu touch: playing music in your car from the ubuntu phone using bluetooth ;) my dad has that in his prius with his windows phone. ubuntu phone should have it as well. or are deals with car manufacturers required for that?
<olivier__> just a tip ;)
<shadeslayer> ogra_: back, do you want to give this another shot?
<ogra_> shadeslayer,  well, not sure what we could do, you need to get your kernel to DTRT
<shadeslayer> hmm
<shadeslayer> ogra_: this option looks important : "S3C HS/OtG USB Device controller (USB_S3C_HSOTG)"
<shadeslayer> description :
<shadeslayer> The Samsung S3C64XX USB2.0 high-speed gadget controller
<shadeslayer> integrated into the S3C64XX series SoC.
<ogra_> yeah, try it :)
<shadeslayer> it was set to use the OTG driver earlier
<shadeslayer> :(
<shadeslayer> drivers/usb/gadget/s3c-hsotg.c:38:27: fatal error: mach/regs-sys.h: No such file or directory
<shadeslayer> ogra_: ^^ any ideas on how to fix that?
<shadeslayer> I see ./arch/arm/mach-s3c64xx/include/mach/regs-sys.h which is what it should probably include
<shadeslayer> except I don't quite understand how the include system works here
<ogra_> well, it should just work ... probably that option above wasnt so good
<shadeslayer> ogra_: I was looking at http://pl.it-usenet.org/thread/18820/9397/
<shadeslayer> and it mentions the exact same error
<ogra_> yeah, but i doubt that feature is even relevant
<shadeslayer> hmm
<shadeslayer> kind of seems relevant?
<ogra_> well, adb works, doesnt it ?
<shadeslayer> nope :(
<shadeslayer> ah
<ogra_> so i would expect the HW to be in the right mode
<shadeslayer> on android? yes
<shadeslayer> well
<ogra_> right
<shadeslayer> the init writes some values during the android boot
<ogra_> HW wise there is no difference, you just switch gardgets
<shadeslayer> oh
<shadeslayer> ogra_: there
<shadeslayer> erm
<shadeslayer> there's /sys/class/android_usb/android0/functions
<ogra_> yes, thats what the android gadget creates
<shadeslayer> yeah, so basically, in order to run adb I need to push those values, except I don't think that interface is available when I boot with the self compiled kernel
<shadeslayer> and that's what's probably missing for the serial console as well?
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> the serial or composite gadgets wont need sysfs mangling
<shadeslayer> I see
<shadeslayer> I am out of ideas
<tgm4883> Does ubuntu touch support WPA2 enterprise yet?
<cyphermox> tgm4883: no
<cyphermox> there is no UI for that yet
<cyphermox> tgm4883: if you want to use wpa2, for now you'll need to do something like push your WPA2 Enterprise config from your computer to the device via phablet-network-setup
<cyphermox> (or write an app to deal with it, using Python or something)
<dobey> where are the instructions for running the unity-next stuff on raring?
<ogra_> there are instructions ?
<pmcgowan> yes
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: ?
<sergiusens> dobey: ogra_ yes, in isotracker
<sergiusens> one sec
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: its just manual install instructions yes
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: sort of http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/243/builds/42498/downloads
<sergiusens> dobey: ^^
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: it's a simplified thing of what I blogged about
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: can we add that to the install page?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: talked to didrocks and rsalveti, we have plan for raring and continuity
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: no, on Monday we should be changing the tools to pick up from raring
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: vg
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: what phablet-tools do you have?
<dobey> oh, sorry. i don't mean instructions to flash a device. but to run the thing on an x86 box which is running 13.04 for example
<tgm4883> cyphermox, I'm assuming when you say push the config, that I just need to edit some files? Or is it using network manager and I can just push wherever the NM config is located at?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: latest from today
<cyphermox> tgm4883: second option
<tgm4883> cyphermox, ah sweet. I'll look into that. Thanks
<sergiusens> dobey: ask that on #ubuntu-unity ... they'll give you all the gotchas
<cyphermox> something like phablet-network-setup -n -i /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/your-wpa-enterprise-connection
<cyphermox> tgm4883: then it should be able to connect by itself, or if you run nmcli con up id "connection"
<cyphermox> tgm4883: you may still need to edit the file to remove the mac-address line.
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: so you can phablet-flash --list-revisions
<cyphermox> tgm4883: I think I made set it up a few times before, I'm not sure anymore. My devices have been reflashed since :)
<tgm4883> cyphermox, yea I keep reflashing mine back to android so I can connect to my wifi at home
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: and I did earlier today!
<dobey> sergiusens: ok, thanks
<sergiusens> ogra_: next jenkins build should be tagged in cdimage
<ogra_> sergiusens, pmcgowan , any specific name you guys want ?
<pmcgowan> ogra_: we discussed quantal-13.04
<pmcgowan> which is ironic
<ogra_> ugh
<pmcgowan> ok you pick
<ogra_> quantal-monthly-april ?
<pmcgowan> very nice
<ogra_> or just monthly-april ... since the dir it lives in is already quantal
<pmcgowan> even better then its the same going forward
<pmcgowan> I would like to have monthly tags
<ogra_> ok
<shadeslayer> ogra_: I added kernel.panic=10 to check if the kernel is actually panicking
<shadeslayer> and measured times before I added that and after I added that
<shadeslayer> ogra_: same time span of approximately 35 seconds
<shadeslayer> so it's not panicking
<ogra_> yeah
<shadeslayer> so .... what's causing it to reboot :S
<ogra_> i wish i knew
<shadeslayer> hehe
<shadeslayer> I think I'll let ChickenCutlass figure it out xD
<tgm4883> Trying to test raring touch on my nexus 7, why does it still pull down quantal-preinstalled-armel+grouper.zip ?
<ChickenCutlass> ogra_: shadeslayer so I see that android starts watchdogd that writes to /dev/watchdog every second
<tgm4883> using the instructions from http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/243/builds/42413/downloads
<tgm4883> phablet-flash --alternate-settings raring_settings.py
<ChickenCutlass> I think because we do not have that -- the system might be rebooting.
<shadeslayer> 0.o
<ogra_> tgm4883, just use the manual metod, its only 4 commands and pretty easy
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: insanity
<ogra_> ChickenCutlass, well, we could rip that out i guess
<tgm4883> ogra_, doing that now, but that should probably be fixed
<ogra_> ChickenCutlass, MSM_WATCHDOG in System Type in the kernel config i think
<ChickenCutlass> ogra_: yup
<ogra_> "This enables the watchdog as is present on 8x60. Currently we use core 0's watchdog, and reset the entire SoC if it times out. It does  not run during the bootup process, so it will not catch any early  lockups."
<ogra_> ...
<ogra_> no words ...
<ChickenCutlass> ogra_: exactly
<tgm4883> sergiusens, is there a reason we're not testing the raring device_file with the raring ubuntu image?
<ogra_> tgm4883, we will soon default to raring
<ogra_> and the raring "device files" are linnks :)
<sergiusens> tgm4883: as ogra mentioned, they are the same thing
<ogra_> (until they are renamed to say "raring" in their filenames
<ogra_> )
<sergiusens> ogra_: or the container switch happens...
<tgm4883> I see
<ogra_> well
<sergiusens> then lots of things could change
<tgm4883> sergiusens, being that they are the same thing. why wouldn't you set it to download the raring one (even though it is a symlink)
<ogra_> even if we switch the container ... as long as there is a container i expect it to be built seprataely
<ogra_> *separately
<ogra_> (we might ship it in the img though)
<sergiusens> ogra_: we were talking with rsalveti of doing a mega zip, sort of like android; still open for debate and I know the pros and cons of both, but we might want to revisit
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: don't see it
<sergiusens> tgm4883: because the symlinks happened after... only reason
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: don't see which?
<ogra_> sergiusens, thats something for beer in the bar at the sprint :)
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: MSM_WATCHDOG
<shadeslayer> there's a CONFIG_S3C2410_WATCHDOG though
<shadeslayer> and that's enabled
<sergiusens> ogra_: yup!
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: it is in my kernel.  I am using a mako.
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: nexus 4
<shadeslayer> ah
<ogra_> shadeslayer, in System Type
<tgm4883> sergiusens, ok, as long as I'm flashing the right stuff :)
<shadeslayer> different devices :)
<ogra_> (on n4 though)
<shadeslayer> yeah, there's a similar config for the N10 :  Watchdog timer block in the Samsung SoCs. This will reboot the system when the timer expires with the watchdog enabled.
<ogra_> shadeslayer,  in menuconfig you can easily search for watchdog and see whats on
<shadeslayer> and that's set to 'y'
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: I bet if you create a shell script that just echo's 1 to /dev/watchdog every few seconds
<ogra_> no idea if thats also possible in that scary X configuratoer :)
<shadeslayer> lol
<shadeslayer> scary x configurator :D
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: just to get arround the reboot
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: yeah, if we can get around the reboot I suspect it'll get enough time to get the serial console up
<jhodapp> rsalveti, found another hook function to add that was missing in hybris "vasprintf", I have it added locally...I'll propose an MR and let you approve it.
<ChickenCutlass> jhodapp: good catch
<ChickenCutlass> jhodapp: was that causing the segfault
<jhodapp> ChickenCutlass, thanks...yes it was...I fixed it and now the new mediacodec-based test player works from the ubuntu side
<jhodapp> :)
<ChickenCutlass> jhodapp: great
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: I think you're absolutely right btw
<shadeslayer> there's the boot option : s3c2410-wdt.tmr_atboot=1
<shadeslayer> which sets the watch dog timer on boot
<ChickenCutlass> right
<shadeslayer> I kept wondering what that was :P, I thought it might be width or stm
<ChickenCutlass> what a hack
<ChickenCutlass> lol
<shadeslayer> *something
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: I'm not very well versed with init, are there things that init can start in the background?
<shadeslayer> and those fork
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: yes.  init on ubuntu is upstart.  It will start the jobs defined in /etc/init
<shadeslayer> uh, right, but, isn't /etc/init defined on the rootfs?
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: so the initramfs /init is just a shell script -- that then ultimatley calls /sbin/init on the new rootfs.
<sergiusens> jhodapp: nice way to end on a Friday!
<jhodapp> sergiusens, yes indeed...I was expecting to have to add more hybris hooks...was surprised to only have to fix one.
<shadeslayer> hmm
<shadeslayer> saw that, but, do you know for certain that /sbin/init gets called?
<shadeslayer> and the system doesn't reboot before /sbin/init is called
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: yes it does.  I confirmed that by replacing /sbin/init with a shell script that changess brightness
<shadeslayer> haha
<shadeslayer> :D
<jhodapp> rsalveti, or ChickenCutlass: want to review this quickly? https://code.launchpad.net/~jhodapp/phablet-extras/add-vasprintf-hook/+merge/159876
<ChickenCutlass> jhodapp: looking
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: on the N10 or the N4?
<ChickenCutlass> n4
<ChickenCutlass> jhodapp: have you tested the reset of the system?
<ChickenCutlass> and regressions from that
<jhodapp> ChickenCutlass, you mean just reboot?
<ChickenCutlass> jhodapp: does the shell and all the apps work
<jhodapp> ChickenCutlass, I'll try that, I had not
<ChickenCutlass> jhodapp: just adding new hooks can have side effect
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: I'll try this on the N10
<jhodapp> ChickenCutlass, yeah makes sense...shell comes back up just fine...now for some apps
<jhodapp> ChickenCutlass, all of the major apps start and run just fine
<ChickenCutlass> jhodapp: ok good
<jhodapp> ChickenCutlass, this is on the Galaxy Nexus
<ChickenCutlass> yes
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: there's even a watchdog package
<james> hello
<Guest11828> hey guys  quick quetion, can i install ubuntu touch on asus ep121?
<ogra_> Guest11828, check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices ... if it isnt there you might need to port it yourself
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: could you explain the function of the margin?
<shadeslayer> I don't quite get what the margin is used for
<ChickenCutlass> margin?
<shadeslayer> s3c2410-wdt.tmr_margin=30
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: that I do not know
<shadeslayer> https://android.googlesource.com/platform/system/core.git/+/master/init/watchdogd.c
<shadeslayer> watchdogd code ^^
<ChickenCutlass> let me look
<Guest11828> i don't see asus ep 121 on the list there, does that mean it won't work?
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: not really sure
<Guest11828> i want to try....i love OS's.......where is the download, i don't see it
<ogra_> Guest11828, it means that someone first needs to port it to cyanogenmod (to get the android layer) and then to ubuntu touch
<ogra_> see the channel topic, there are links
<Guest11828> I've got USB ports on my tablet, i just want the image file
<Guest11828> anybody know where it is?
<Guest11828> got a link?
<ogra_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/daily-preinstalled/current/
<ogra_> these are built for cerain ARM devices only though
<ogra_> *certain
<jhodapp> sergiusens, can you look at why I get a 404 error on all of the Jenkins links for this MR? https://code.launchpad.net/~jhodapp/phablet-extras/add-vasprintf-hook/+merge/159876
<sergiusens> jhodapp: publishing seems to be lagged
<sergiusens> jhodapp: change the url to s-jenkins:8080
<jhodapp> k
<achiang> sergiusens: hey, can you remind me what kernel version you guys are on (once you move to either R or S)
<shadeslayer> hah
<Guest11828> Thanks dudes.....which version should i try to install on the asus ep 121?
<jhodapp> sergiusens, can't get to s-jenkins:8080 either
<shadeslayer> also explains why it reboots after 30 seconds
<shadeslayer> tmr_margin is set to 30 :D
<sergiusens> achiang: it's the kernels from the device packaged into the archive.. they differ from device to device
<achiang> sergiusens: ok, for our reference device, say the N4
<achiang> mako
<sergiusens> achiang: linux-image-nexus4 in raring
<sergiusens> achiang: although I notice the description is wrong
<achiang> sigh. /me goes to make a raring chroot to find out
<adfad666> has anyone seen success on a Rockchip rk3066 device? I'm syncnig sources right now to give it a go
<sergiusens> achiang: no need to
<sergiusens> achiang: use the lp apt source thing
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: I think the fix to change the start sequence broke the people lens
<pmcgowan> assume the shell needed to start before friends
<ogra_> achiang, you just want to build it ?
<ogra_> achiang, wget https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+source/linux-nexus4/3.4.0-1.2/+files/linux-nexus4_3.4.0-1.2.tar.xz
<achiang> ogra_: no, i just want a version number
 * achiang is in doc writing hell
<ogra_> achiang, wget https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+source/linux-nexus4/3.4.0-1.2/+files/linux-nexus4_3.4.0-1.2.dsc
<ogra_> ah
<achiang> ogra_: ok, thanks. 3.4
<ogra_> :)
<achiang> btw, apt-cache search linux-image-nexus4 shows empty in my raring install
<sergiusens> achiang: needs to be on arm
<ogra_> Guest75616, none, as i said before, you would first need to port it ... none of the images will run on intel hardware
<sergiusens> achiang: or add the arm sources
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: confirmed
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: roll back?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: let me try
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: can I manually dork with that services file? and why is it called tablet-services
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: legacy from when we were going to have two shells
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: there's a task to remove/consolidate
<ogra_> once ubuntu-session goes away that will be obsolete anyway
<ogra_> we have upstart user jobs now
<ogra_> no need for all that scripting
<pmcgowan> ogra_: is that services file a text file on disk somewhere?
<ogra_> yes
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: changing friends to 4 does the trick
<pmcgowan> I bet
<ogra_> its in /etc
<shadeslayer> ChickenCutlass: does the container switch work on the Nexus 4? ( i.e. does the rootfs come up? )
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: you need to change phone-services though if on the phone
<pmcgowan> cant find it
<ChickenCutlass> shadeslayer: I just hacked the /init to manually mount the rootfs
<ChickenCutlass> for now
<shadeslayer> I see
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: nm I see it
<shadeslayer> apparently you can disable the watchdog
<ChickenCutlass> is it a kernel cmnd line
<shadeslayer> s3c2410-wdt.tmr_atboot=0
<shadeslayer> for the Nexus 10
<ChickenCutlass> ok
<shadeslayer> was reading https://lwn.net/Articles/101198/
<shadeslayer> so the rebooting is gone, but still no serial interface :P
<shadeslayer> and all it shows is the google log :D
<ChickenCutlass> hmm
<ogra_> where would a serial interface come from ?
<ogra_> *serial
<shadeslayer> I mean, serial gadget
<ogra_> well, did you build it in ?
<shadeslayer> yep
<ogra_> then it would come up as soon as the kernel initializes
<ogra_> way before initrd even
<ogra_> it is definitely broken in the nexus4 kernel ... ChickenCutlass  and i did put some time into inspecting it earlier
<ogra_> i would suspect the same is turue for the nexus 10
<ogra_> *true
<shadeslayer> hmm
<shadeslayer> probably
<ogra_> there are some heavy android hacks in there
<shadeslayer> he
<shadeslayer> &heh
<ogra_> on n4 you cant even build
<shadeslayer> ...
<shadeslayer> oh
<shadeslayer> :D
<ogra_> since some header paths are mangled
<ogra_> probably an easy job for a kernel team person to fix ... i gave up after fixing the 8th file and sitll had new headers missing
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: did it work for you?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: yep, just booted
<shadeslayer> lol
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: what about phone calls and address book? Just in case
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: hmm, so I hit call back from messages and nothing happens
<pmcgowan> did that work?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: messaging icon from people entry works
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: not that I am aware of
<shadeslayer> nighters
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: I'll have to roll back
<pmcgowan> sergiusens: vs fix the friends delay?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: vs?
<fginther> boiko, I have two merge version bump merge proposals to fix packages in the ppa. Would you like to review?
<fginther> https://code.launchpad.net/~fginther/ubuntu-docviewer-app/version-bump-0.1.1/+merge/159886
<fginther> https://code.launchpad.net/~fginther/ubuntu-filemanager-app/version-bump-0.1.1/+merge/159887
<boiko> fginther: well, I have reviewed the calculator one (which is the app I mentor), not sure I can go ahead and approve for the others
<janimo> sergiusens, was TINY_ANDROIDkkkkknn/mUse
<fginther> boiko, oh, ok, i didn't realize they were setup like that, my apologies
<fginther> boiko, i'll find appropriate reviewers
<boiko> fginther: better wait for the respective developers to approve that (as there might be changes not yet suitable for releasing already merged, for example)
<sergiusens> janimo: ??
<janimo> sergiusens, sorry, I started asking something then changed my mind, then accidentally typed vim keypresses in xchat :)
<janimo> sergiusens, wanted to ask if we used tiny_android
<sergiusens> janimo: yes, sort of... but I want to get rid of that
<ogra_> yeah, we want the bigger stuff ...
<janimo> sergiusens, is there a buglist or a roadmap of such planned changes?
<janimo> sergiusens, I mean the various thing you want to clean up in the current android codebase
<sergiusens> janimo: I was on holiday's during the vUDS so missed out on all the blueprints, I can surely add it to some
<sergiusens> janimo: this particular task is not documented, aka, make the build smaller/tech debt cleanup
<mhall119> ZDmitry: ping
<mhall119> ZDmitry: can you join #ubuntu-touch-meeting?
<ZDmitry> mhall119: Sory for delay. I'm joined at meeting.
<mterry> Where is QDBusActionGroup defined?  I see it used in the phablet VolumeControl
<mhall119> plars: ping
<plars> mhall119: hi
<mhall119> hey plars, you have a work item on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-1303-quality-testingstrategy
<mhall119> I was wondering if that is still TODO, of if it can get updated
<plars> mhall119: done for now, I'm sure there will be more to move over soon
<mhall119> plars: cool, can you make it as DONE in the BP?
<plars> mhall119: already did
<mhall119> just cleaning up work items before the end of this cycle
<mhall119> thanks
<Oranger> mhall119: Hi ! I'm sorry if the plainText branch is not already merged, I have some problems with debuild...
<rsalveti> jhodapp: nice, so does it work properly at ubuntu now?
 * rsalveti looking if the mrs were already approved 
<mhall119> Oranger: didrocks sent you a MP for your branch, that should fix the package building
<Oranger> mhall119: Yes, but the depends need to be refreshed because Jenkins can't find qmake
<mhall119> Oranger: ah, yes, Build-Depends will need that package
<Oranger> mhall119: I manually added qt5-qmake in build-depends on debian/control, but it didn't work
<mhall119> same error or different?
<mhall119> there was a compiling error in your main.cpp, when compiling it with debhelper's flags
<Oranger> mhall119: I fixed this error
<mhall119> ok, cool
<mhall119> what are you getting now?
<Oranger> mhall119: but he still can't find qmake, I maybe made a mistake on debian/control
<mhall119> ah, qt5-qmake doesn't install /usr/bin/qmake, it installs /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/qt5/bin/qmake
<mhall119> Oranger: try adding the package qtchooser in addition to qt5-qmake
<Oranger> mhall119: done.
<Oranger> mhall119: Still the same error : "Can't exec "qmake": No such file or directory at /usr/share/perl5/Debian/Debhelper/Dh_Lib.pm line 215."
<Oranger> mhall119: with qt5-qmake and qtchooser
<mhall119> Oranger: hmmm, I can bug didrocks again on Monday
<Oranger> mhall119: Ok, I'll try to find the problem on the week-end before you ask him again
<mhall119> Oranger: ok, be sure to have some rest and relaxation over the weekend too :)
<Oranger> mhall119: ahah yes, but I don't like to know that something don't work well ;)
<mhall119> we'll get it figured out
<Oranger> mhall119: I'll try to find other projects on launchpad using qmake and see how they can make a deb with it
<mhall119> ah, he's gone
<faithcry> hello !
<Noskcaj> is there still a desktop version of the nexus image or is it touch only now?
<wilee-nilee> Noskcaj, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/daily-preinstalled/current/  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Building
<wilee-nilee> Noskcaj,The first link has the touch and raring downloads.
<Noskcaj> wilee-nilee, thanks
#ubuntu-touch 2013-04-20
<wilee-nilee> no problem
<tsukasa_> hey guys
<tsukasa_> quick question
<tsukasa_> is any dev working on the htc one s at this moment
<tsukasa_> ?
<tsukasa_> i am asking this because i might be able to help in the development
<FUF> so, following instructions here: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/243/builds/42413/downloads
<FUF> on grouper, once the flash is completed and the device reboots, after the initial Google boot logo, the device powers off.
<FUF> i.e. phablet-flash completes, devices reboots into recovery and flashes, then reboots again and the device powers off after initial Google logo.
<FUF> any thoughts, anyone?
<Steve____> Hi team
<solstag> hi there
<solstag> Ni!
<solstag> im trying to install via manual procedure in a galaxy nexus
<solstag> anyone had success with that?
<solstag> im trying to understand what the "adb push" commands do, since they dont seem to do nothing but transfer a file... : P
<solstag> also, my galaxy nexus isnt recognized by adb in recovery mode
<solstag> should I just apply those adb push commands under a normal boot?
<wilee-nilee> solstag, Are you using the install wiki?
<solstag> any ideas would be appreciated
<solstag> yes, im using the install wiki
<solstag> wilee-nilee: Ë
<wilee-nilee> solstag, You added the phablet ppa and apps?
<solstag> thats the problem, i dont have an ubuntu machine handy right now
<solstag> so im trying the manual install procedure
<solstag> at the end of the install wiki page
<wilee-nilee> solstag, Ah, there is a manual install from that wiki from ubuntu, thought you meant that, that is about the limit of my help.
<solstag> wilee-nilee: ah, ok, thank you very much anyway +)
<solstag> hopefully someone else who has some understanding reads this...
<harris> will it come to galaxy tab 2 10.1
<user82> hello all. can i just install ubuntu touch with clockworkmod recovery via "factory reset/wipe all" and "install zip from sdcard"?
<STEI> hello
<kirix> hello
<kirix> has anyone else had trouble with " phablet-flash âalternate-settings raring_settings.py
<rigved> hi everyone
<rigved> using the new raring images, is it possible apt-get dist-upgrade ?
<wilee-nilee> rigved, A dist-upgrade is not a release upgrade
<kirix> do I need to specify my device with "phablet-flash -alternative-settings raring_settings.py"?
<kirix> guess I need to try to manually install raring
<rigved> wilee-nilee: what i mean is is that do i need to flash the daily image to get a new version or is it possible to get updates via apt-get?
<Double_W> can samsung galaxy gt-i8150 use ubuntu touch?
<wilee-nilee> rigved, You can get apt-get updates yeah, but the images may have changes not included in a update at times I suspect.
<kirix> /home/kirix/Desktop/unltlauncher100.sh
<kirix> oops
<kirix> had to put android back on my phone. im too dumb to upgrade developers preview to raring
<ogra_> just use the manual method from the install wikipage then ... its not hard, its only 4 commands
<kirix> thanks
<user82> sorry for asking again. can i just install ubuntu touch with clockworkmod recovery via "factory reset/wipe all" and "install zip from sdcard"?
<kirix> user82: right now im pushing the raring files to the SD card in recovery and going to try installing zip from sd card in Clockwork Recovery
<kirix> that worked
<user82> kirix thank you for the information
<user82> kirix what did you need to do? full wipe/factory reset?
<kirix> i "adb push" raring-preinstalled-phablet-armhf.zip and raring-preinstalled-armel+maguro.zip and installed those two in order
<kirix> i think i got raring on there, i cant find the version indicator inside ubuntu touch
<user82> okay thanks. i wanted to do that without adb
<kirix> yeah i barely understand it
<kirix> it's still in test phase not for dumb people who ask too many questions
<Meizirkki> hey
<Meizirkki> I was wondering, what exactly is so different between android and ubuntu kernels?
<Namidairo> Meizirkki: currently? the defconfig.
<Meizirkki> I was thinking the standard ubuntu kernel and the standard android kernel. As in, are there some things that make them incompatible besides the drivers for individual hardware?
<Meizirkki> Or am I totally lost here?
<Meizirkki> What I'm wondering here is why can't the normal ubuntu arm release work if an android kernel is just dropped in
<Meizirkki> This is maybe the wrong channel to ask as it has nothing to do with ubuntu touch
<Meizirkki> :P
<ogra_> yeah, #ubuntu-arm might be better
<urbanslug> Hey guys is there a way I can run ubuntu touch inside Linux Mint
<smartboyhw> urbanslug, do it yourself...
<smartboyhw> You can ask the Linux Mint devs
<urbanslug> Thanks
<gammie> how do i install ubuntu on samsung galaxy s1?
<urbanslug> Linux Mint devs? Okay I've been programming for just six months and I feel confident enough to try my own ideas on it.
<smartboyhw> gammie, please look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/galaxysmtd
<poutine> There doesn't appear to be a toro in here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/daily-preinstalled/20130420/ any reason why?
<smartboyhw> poutine, toro?
<poutine> verizon galaxy nexus
<smartboyhw> Which device are you specifically talking about?
<poutine> they're all labeled by their sushi name, figured that was common nomenclature
<smartboyhw> poutine, erm Galaxy Nexus I think means the normal one.
<poutine> This is a normal one, this is built off cyanogenmod, why couldn't the cyanogenmod for the toro be used?
<smartboyhw> poutine, if you seriously want one you have to port it yourself
<smartboyhw> oh wait
<poutine> Ok I will look into it
<smartboyhw> poutine, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=38294870
<smartboyhw> I think that's the toro thread for porting
<Oranger> mhall119: Hey ! Thank you for your branch ! :) There is still an error because qt5-qmake and qt-chooser are virtual packages, i'm trying to fix it
<mybro> hello everyone
<mybro> getting strange errors when I attempt to flash the latest Dev Preview
<mybro> http://pastebin.com/VVhYQvs7
<mybro> Nexus 4 - Did a clean install of 4.2.2., enabled USB debugging, device shows up in adb
<mybro> any ideas?
<mybro> the actual error is in the pastebin I just typed in....
<ogra_> did you follow the exact steps on the wiki ?
<mybro> This time I used the ones on the ISO testing site
<mybro> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/243/builds/42607/downloads
<mybro> though I doublechecked the preparatory steps on the wiki
<mybro> didn't run into this problem back in Feb when I flashed the original build
<ogra_> well, you are obviously missing one :)
<ogra_> go through them again
<mybro> ok, checking again...
<sergiusens> mybro: ogra_ if you are flashing from an android OS you need to add -b
<sergiusens> to the flash
<sergiusens> the instructions on isotracker are for people already using ubuntu touch
<mybro> sergiusens: Thanks.  I didn't realize that
<mybro> my internet connection is horribly slow, so it takes about 4 hours each try if the images aren't cached.  Will give the phablet-flash -b a try
<sergiusens> ogra_: you around?
<sergiusens> ogra_: nevermind...
<ogra_> sergiusens, i am
<sergiusens> I'll be triggering a build soon, that's all :-)
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> well, the i can see if the mailing works again ... good
<ogra_> somehos this mornings build didnt send a log
<UserError1> Does the beta have terminal or file manager?
<Oranger> UserError1: There is no beta version
<Oranger> UserError1: But the terminal and the file manager are being developed
<Oranger> UserError1: You can install it if you want, bug reports are welcome :)
<UserError1> Do you guys have it set up so I can just chroot in or emulate on vbox / qmu and push to shared folder?
<UserError1> Slashdot headlines, why did I believe them. They are throwing around the B word
<Oranger> UserError1: You want to use Ubuntu-touch in a VM ? Or you are already using it there ?
<UserError1> i have a galaxy nexus, i don't know how i would otherwise get the files to that image other than chroot or something of that sort.
<UserError1> Touch supports adb?
<Oranger> UserError1: I'm sorry I can't answer you now I have to go, hope someone else will help you here ! :) Some poeple did it before you so I'm sure this is possible
<sybrek> hi, does somebodyknow which features are working on htc sensation (pyramid) ? i can't find any information about that
<Bascalin> Hello, one little Question: It is possible to use/install Ubuntu Touch on an x86 Tabler (like Wetab or ExoPC) ?
<Bascalin> Anybody here who knows of capability running ubuntu touch on x86 tablets ?
<AndiTheBest> Hi, is there anywhere a changelog of the new ubuntu touch raring beta?
<Oranger> AndiTheBest: A changelog which include all changelogs of all apps updated in ubuntu-touch ?
<speedly> hi all
<shadeslayer> ogra_: btw the framebuffer is on /dev/graphics/fb0
<speedly> I looking for install ubuntu to my tablet A10 cortex8 1gb ddr3 mali400 and resolution 800X480 anyone can help me
<shadeslayer> ogra_: and there's a sysfs interface as well /sys/class/graphics/fb0
<Oranger> speedly: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<speedly> thanks oranger which device compatible whit me A10 cortex8 1gb ddr3 mali400 and resolution 800X480
<Oranger> speedly: I think that nobody tried with your device actually, you can try yourself to find which device will work for you ;)
<JHOSMAN> Hello there!
<AndiTheBest> Oranger: I want to know how usable ubuntu touch now is.
<JHOSMAN> please helpme, im run Ubuntu Next :~/unity/unity-next$ ./run ./run: 43: ./run: ./builddir/qml-phone-shell: not found
<Oranger> AndiTheBest: He is still in developpement, you can use it but keep in mind that few bugs will appears and a lot of core-apps are not finished :)
<Oranger> JHOSMAN: what is that ?
<speedly> orenger thanks :)
<JHOSMAN> Oranger:  http://www.ma-no.org/en/content/index_how-to-run-unity-next-on-ubuntu-12-10_1364.php
<JHOSMAN> Oranger:  Step Four: Running Unity Next
<JHOSMAN> In cd ~/unity/unity-next    ./run
<Oranger> you don't c/p "cd ~/unity/unity-next    ./run" I hope
<AndiTheBest> Oranger: there is no OS without bugs ;) i'm searching for a replacement for my old n900, android didnt make me happy. as today everythig is webbased, i'm thinking about using ubuntu touch as main phone OS now.
<JHOSMAN> :P
<JHOSMAN> See
<JHOSMAN> :~/unity/unity-next$ ./run
<JHOSMAN> and the console print "./run: 43: ./run: ./builddir/qml-phone-shell: not found"
<Oranger> AndiTheBest: The beta version of ubuntu-touch is not really planned to be use as a main phone because it is not yet stable. But if you want you can, nothing stopping you :) Every bug report is needed :)
<Oranger> JHOSMAN: What do you have in ~/unity/unity-next
<JHOSMAN> Oranger: See http://i.imgur.com/yx7LN9P.jpg
<AndiTheBest> ok, i will give a try :) thx
<isemenov> hello guys
<isemenov> I'd like to know if ubuntu phone runs compiled code or uses a Java VM similar to Android
<isemenov> or is it possible to install a version of it that runs compiled code
<isemenov> thnka you
<bef0rd_> there is no java vm
<isemenov> wel, I've seen "ubuntu on android" and got worried
<isemenov> so does installing ubuntu phone mean that I get a real linux kernel, which is not locked down in any fashion, and a full collection of GNU utilities as in gnu/linux?
<isemenov> also a deb package manager and root access by default?
<isemenov> bef0rd_: ^
<isemenov> thank you!
<bef0rd_> isemenov: I think so, but I do not know all the things "under" it
<isemenov> ok
<bef0rd_> I know that video drivers will be android compatible to make it easier
<bef0rd_> and most of the other stuff is probably yes, I don't see them changing the package manager
<isemenov> ok, great
<isemenov> want to get rid of android in my tegra-based pda
<shadeslayer> hah
<isemenov> yeah, it has no root access and uses java, what for
<isemenov> java go home
<isemenov> those who can't code c++ flee away to java
<mhall119> Oranger: I'm not sure what the problem is now, I'll have to ask the experts on Monday
<Oranger> mhall119: I know the problem
<mhall119> what is it?
<isemenov> shadeslayer: didnt expect to meet you here ;)
<Oranger> mhall119: I watched at the quantal build, but qt5 is only avalaible on raring
<shadeslayer> heh :P
<mhall119> Oranger: oh, right, it's in the ubuntu-sdk-team PPA on quantal....
 * shadeslayer high 5's isemenov
<shadeslayer> isemenov: trying to get KDE to run on the Nexus 10 :P
<Oranger> mhall119: So we can't build ubuntu-docviewer-app for quantal :)
<isemenov> yeah go go
<shadeslayer> I finally have the device showing up on the usb interface during the boot
<Oranger> mhall119: I'm fixing the last build errors for raring, it will be ok for today... i hope
<mhall119> Oranger: the PPA should be getting them from the SDK team's PPA....
<mhall119> fginther or popey might be able to help figure this out
<Oranger> mhall119: Oh... ok, so I let them do it ^^
<JHOSMAN> Oranger: Yes, I understand you do not find the directory, but I followed the steps
<Oranger> JHOSMAN: Sorry, i'm with you in few minutes
<JHOSMAN> :P
<JHOSMAN> ok
<JHOSMAN> Oranger:  One question, bazar files only work in Ubunu 12.10
<Oranger> JHOSMAN: Depend of the app
<JHOSMAN> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/04/how-to-run-unity-next-on-your-desktop
<JHOSMAN> I get the same error, I have Ubuntu 13.04 Raring
<shadeslayer> ogra_: around?
<JHOSMAN> I tried several times but it still has the same problem.
<Oranger> JHOSMAN: Bazaar file of what ?
<JHOSMAN> Oranger: in the comand
<JHOSMAN> $ ./run
<JHOSMAN> excuse
<JHOSMAN> :) It's Run!
<Oranger> JHOSMAN: Good ! :)
<JHOSMAN> The documentation of OmgUbuntu it's out!
<JHOSMAN> http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/development/unitynext/
<JHOSMAN> and add the LP and Bazzar repositories
<JHOSMAN> how to close applications, what is? in UnityNext
<Oranger> JHOSMAN: Yes, you always have to follow official tutorials, not in blogs
<JHOSMAN> Oranger:  Although the official tutorial is not very specific, for people who are not accustomed to using Bazar
<Oranger> JHOSMAN: Then edit it :)
<JHOSMAN> Yes =)
<JHOSMAN> the problem is that I have no permissions on these blogs :P
<Oranger> JHOSMAN: Can you send me the link ?
<kirix> does Maps work in raring?
<JHOSMAN> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/04/how-to-run-unity-next-on-your-desktop
<Oranger> kirix: maps ?
<JHOSMAN>  http://www.ma-no.org/en/content/index_how-to-run-unity-next-on-ubuntu-12-10_1364.php
<kirix> yes
<Oranger> JHOSMAN: I tought of the wiki
<JHOSMAN> I do not understand
<Oranger> JHOSMAN: This link is for you the officiel tuto ?
<JHOSMAN> No
<JHOSMAN> But the information of http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/development/unitynext/ It was not clear
<JHOSMAN> for this
<JHOSMAN> Build dependencies  If its your first time, download & build deps  $ ./build -s  this will:      Add ppa:phablet-team/desktop-deps     For 12.10, add ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-proper and ppa:ubuntu-sdk-team/ppa     Build and install lp:libunity/phablet, lp:unity/phablet-mods, lp:hud/phablet and lp:unity-lens-people locally     For 12.10, build and install lp:nux/phablet locally     Install build dependencies
<Oranger> JHOSMAN: Oh yes ok I see, this is only for dev... Yes the wiki need a tutorial for beginners
<JHOSMAN> ;)
<Roberth_> hola buenas tardes
<Oranger> RobbyF: hey
<Roberth_> como estas??
<Roberth_> quiero saber como puedo instalarle a mi tetelefono celular ubuntu
<Oranger> !es
<Roberth_> hello
<Oranger> Roberth_: Did you search in google ?
<Roberth_> nmmmm ok
<Oranger> mhall119: I fixed the build for raring, the quantal build still got errors
<iLarsona> Hello
<iLarsona> I need help
<hays> does the ubuntu-touch on a nexus4 have a phone?
#ubuntu-touch 2013-04-21
<dmorrison1004> anyone know if there's a ubuntu touch out there that works for galaxy nexus toro?
<Mic_Redford> sup
<Mic_Redford> zzzZZZzzz
<kirix> yo yo yo
<marchingbtone> ok, so i tried to install the latest build of ubuntu touch on my Nexus 4 (mako) i don't have an ubuntu computer, but i used command prompt in windows 7 in fastboot to flash the different files, then used the preinstalled recovery to install the two zip files on my SD.
<marchingbtone> but it wont boot. it'll get to the google screen, then just turn off.
<marchingbtone> does anybody have any suggestions at all? am i doing something wrong?
<marchingbtone> oh and i am wiping my data, cache, dalvic, ect.
<elkng> from that page ubuntu.com/phone: "ubuntu now fits your phone, introducing  the superphone that's also a full PC", does that mean I can replace android on smartphone with ubuntu ? is there packaged ROMs allready ? what about drivers, how they handle all bunch of drivers on those dosens of phone models ? is there a list of such devices ?
<marchingbtone> i don't think they have a single flashable rom just yet. but ubuntu only handles the devices of the Nexus line (4,7,10 and galaxy)
<elkng> those are expensive ones ?
<marchingbtone> ubuntu touch is also just based on CM 10.1 (or just 10) so i'm not too sure it completely replaces android itself
<elkng> why on earth ubuntu that main goal to make linux available for even poor people supports only expensive phones ?
<marchingbtone> there are other devices it has been ported to as well. but seeing as i'm a nexus 4 owner, i'm not too sure where to find it. let me look
<cloudnull> Hey all, Looking for some guidance - Just flashed UT for Nexus4 (mako) and at present, I have no Wireless Radio, other than WIFI. What do I need to do to get Cell Service working?
<marchingbtone> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices theres all the devices available.
<marchingbtone> and cloudnull, how long ago did you flash? because i cannot get mine to flash at all
<cloudnull> just a few min ago.
<cloudnull> Device is on first boot
<cloudnull> followed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<cloudnull> bootstrap from desktop Ubuntu (12.10)
<marchingbtone> i don't havea ubuntu computer is the problem. so i've deplyed the files correctly via fastboot mode and through command prompt via windows 7 and everything installs just fine, but when i go to flash the zip files, i get to the google screen, but don't get past that
<marchingbtone> and did you install the raring or the quantal files?
<cloudnull> maybe attempt install using something like VirtualBox or VMware workstation ?
<cloudnull> though I have not attempted the install on Windows...
<cloudnull> I installed raraing according to terminal output
<marchingbtone> raring or quantal files? i have a couple other methods to try so. i'll see what happens here soon
<cloudnull> sorry I miss spoke, presently I have quantal installed from first boot, however I am getting the raring files now and will attempt to install the beta
<marchingbtone> trying to push the raring right now..
<reubot> how do you leave the browser
<marchingbtone> cant really answer that at teh moment as my ubuntu touch won't boot...
<marchingbtone> so it doesn't seem like raring is working for me. so. tomorrow when it's not one in the morning i will download and install the other files! party. have a good night guys. cheers!
<cloudnull> flashed Rarring, and it looks great though on further review, I read that there is no Mobile Data presently , thus I am flashing back to Android however I am going to be watching the development of Ubuntu Touch Closly as I think VERY highly of the OS so far. Thank you to everyone in here for their hard work.
<cloudnull> I like the system and I love the feel of the OS. But I need a some what functional daily driver and without Mobile Data I cant use it presently, however I have a captivate I can attmept the flash on from an XDA forum and I will continue to use and possibly develop on with that platform.
<snowmann> hi
<elkng> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices is that information about phones or tablets ?
<smartboyhw> elkng, both.
<smartboyhw> It's Ubuntu Touch, and Touch = all phones, tablets and more:P
<[mbm]> phablets
<elkng> more ?
<elkng> what are phablets ?
<smartboyhw> elkng, phablets:P
<snowmann> does ubnt touch replace linux+android, or just android... or?
<[mbm]> someting between a phone and a tablet
<smartboyhw> elkng, phablets means phones having the size larger than a normal smartphone but smaller than a tablet.
<elkng> do they exist or that a play of words tablets + phone ?
<smartboyhw> snowmann, what do you mean?
<smartboyhw> elkng, they DO exist
<snowmann> from "layer" level
<snowmann> how it's organized?
<[mbm]> snowmann: it doesn't dual boot if that's what you're asking
<[mbm]> boots directly into a ubuntu system
<snowmann> a ql
<snowmann> finally phone worth having :)
<snowmann> android is  a mess :)
<snowmann> will there be some hw resource/speed improvements compared to android ?
<elkng> smartboyhw: "larger than a normal smartphone", so its some kind mini tablet with SIM card support ?
<smartboyhw> elkng, sort of.
<elkng> but is that ubuntu pure linux or similar to android core+virtual machine sand box for software ?
<elkng> can one upload C source of some software on that phone and do ./configure && make && make install ?
<snowmann> :D
<elkng> or is there some kind of emulator similar for android's emulator ?
<snowmann> i just hope ubuntu touch isn't app for android :D
<elkng> smartboyhw: I looked at pictures of phablets and I actually saw them in stores where only phones were sold, but I thought they are some smartphones with bigger screens, and not different devices with the names "phablet"
<snowmann> elkng: it's just easier to say "phablet" then "larger screen smartphone"
<snowmann> :)
<elkng> "ph" for you
<elkng> its easier to say "fablet" than "phablet"
<snowmann> fab is die manufacturing facility
<snowmann> so you might get confused
<snowmann> by
<user82> hello. which image do i need for the "Nexus 4"? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/daily-preinstalled/current/
<user82> sorry to ask but i cannot find it
<user82> raring-preinstalled-boot-armel+mako.img  ?
<reubot> elkng: no X though :(
<UserError1> how do you get the terminal / fm apps
<UserError1> into the img
<UserError1> chroot?
<elkng> Reuters called 2013, the "Year of the Phablet."
<UserError1> Reuters doesn't know what they are talking about
<UserError1> and i bet all of their backend coders use cold fusion or cakephp
<Levanth> Hi I would like to ask if it is actually possible to install one of the ubuntu-touch images over android x86 (I am using a Wetab aka Exopc with android 4.0 x86)
<Levanth> I forgot to mention I also would try to Build a own image but I dont know with wich preinstalled Image i should start
<fattysc> Would anybody know if there is another version similar to manhattan-quantal-armhf-tar-20130420-1.tar.gz? I've tried that one and it aborts installation right after opening it.
<shadeslayer> ogra_: do you know how ChickenCutlass got the kernel to boot the root partition?
<shadeslayer> for some reason my init panics at validate_init
<unixnotphoenix> is it possible to test out ubuntu touch on a pc?
<unixnotphoenix>  on a pc running ubuntu (mint actually) not phone or tablet...
<unixnotphoenix> like in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4gXaf08GTI
<unixnotphoenix> anyone?
<WebVisitor-3> hello
<unixnotphoenix> anyone here tried out ubuntu touch on a mint pc? I couldnt find any way to install it in mint (not phone or tablet... on pc)...like in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4gXaf08GTI
<WebVisitor-3> i want to know about ubuntu touch 13.04
<unixnotphoenix> anyone here tried out ubuntu touch on a mint pc? I couldnt find any way to install it in mint (not phone or tablet... on pc)...like in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4gXaf08GTI
<cloudnull> while I have not tired the install on Mint I would assume, if you are using mint proper and not mint debian, you should be able to simply follow the command line instructions from the wiki. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<cloudnull> that is mint is based on the latest Ubuntu so the packages should work without issues.
<unixnotphoenix> on mint maya too? (based on 12.04).. cloudnull
<cloudnull> seems like it , i looked at - http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_maya_whatsnew.php - and it is in fact based on Ubuntu 12.04 so I would assume that the install would work without incident, I did the install on a device last night from Ubuntu 12.04 and it worked . so I would not expect issues for you however note , I have not attempted it from mint
<cloudnull> the packages should be 100% compatible
<unixnotphoenix> cloudnull: the link you gave is for phones/tablets right? how about pc?
<cloudnull> it is for phones and tablets . you want to install Ubuntu Touch on a PC?  not install Ubuntu Touch on a mobile device from a PC ?
<cloudnull> I am sorry I may have missed the first part of the converstation
<cloudnull> or miss understood ?
<cloudnull> if so that is the unitynext project, you should look here : http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/development/unitynext/
<cloudnull> and for that I would not assume that it would work with Mint as they are not using Unity
<unixnotphoenix> does it work in mint with unity de installed?
<cloudnull> i do not know.
<unixnotphoenix> ok.. this seems to be it.. thank you.. :)
<cloudnull> good luck :)
<unixnotphoenix> sure :)
<elin3t> hi, I have a Nexus4 and i will like to install ubuntu touch but i wish know if is possible to make calls with it or is it is only to test other features
<cloudnull> I can confirm that it makes calls though there is no mobile data at this time. At least from the latest build. (Installed last night), also I found no method to import contact, it is filled with "example" data, but i could add contacts at will.
<elin3t> ok i will try,after install it :P
<elin3t> thks!
<cloudnull> have fun
<fattysc> Has anybody tried JoL_Ubuntu_Touch_Preview.zip ?
<fattysc> I keep getting installation aborted when I try to use it. It's for the cortex a8.
<fattysc> Or could someone point me to a cortex a8 preview of touch that they know works?
<shadeslayer> ogra_: this might make ChickenCutlass a bit happy :P http://paste.kde.org/729668/
<shadeslayer> ogra_: that's from /proc/last_kmsg via the recovery, no framebuffer et
<shadeslayer> *framebuffer console yet
<shadeslayer> ogra_: once I get instructions on how to mount the rootfs I can continue forward
<shadeslayer> whoa, it even figured out the right time
<Takagami> Good Evening all!
<sergiusens> rsalveti: did plars confirm mako was working with the ubuntu mako kernel?
<cbandarrinha> i wonder if we could ibstal Ubuntu Touch on Nexs ONE ?!
<cbandarrinha> Nexus ONE
<rsalveti> sergiusens: with my image, ye
<rsalveti> *yes
<sergiusens> rsalveti: applying those patches then
<rsalveti> sergiusens: alright
<sergiusens> rsalveti: how was your fun with mako and 92?
<rsalveti> sergiusens: good, working on finishing it now
<rsalveti> sergiusens: did we tag 92? or are we going with the current tag still?
<rsalveti> sergiusens: better, if we're tagging 92 :-)
<rsalveti> brb
<sergiusens> rsalveti: I want to tag 92, but wanted to make sure it worked on mako
<sergiusens> rsalveti: that was the plan :-)
<rsalveti> sergiusens: alright then :-)
<rsalveti> sergiusens: do you have power to create tags?
<rsalveti> or do we need to ask ogra_ for that?
<sergiusens> rsalveti: nope, but we can do it tomorrow
#ubuntu-touch 2014-04-14
<lotuspsychje> i hope you devs can make ubuntu-touch work smoothly on every device, i really hate androids security..:p
<JBViewerr_007> hey, all
<JBViewerr_007> Ubuntu touch is what I wanted to really try out, but no cash at the moment.
<lotuspsychje> JBViewerr_007: touch is free mate
<lotuspsychje> JBViewerr_007: i bought me a nexus7 2013 for 269euro
<JBViewerr_007> I don't have the funds for the phone itself.  I was looking around for a used one, but the one I had my eye on was gone.
<JBViewerr_007> I'm considering waiting for one of the "real" models to come out later this year.
<lotuspsychje> JBViewerr_007: yeah i hear you, meizu and BQ
<JBViewerr_007> I was hoping that Ubuntu Touch might try to make a play for the lower end market like Mozilla.  But not with those hardware requirements.
<lotuspsychje> JBViewerr_007: im sure after those 2 phones will hit the market, alot will change for touch
<JBViewerr_007> So, the way I see it, Mozilla has a shot at playing with the big kids (Microsoft, Google, Apple), but Ubuntu may have priced themselves out of it.
<lotuspsychje> i like ubuntu as underdog :p
<lotuspsychje> <ryao> lotuspsychje: I doubt ubuntu touch is secure, but it is likely better than Android.
<lotuspsychje> <ryao> lotuspsychje: It is an Android fork.
<lotuspsychje> oO
<JBViewerr_007> As for the version, isn't 14.04 the one that they've been installing?
<lotuspsychje> JBViewerr_007: yes ive tested version in terminal on touch
<lotuspsychje> said 14.04 trusty
<lotuspsychje> JBViewerr_007: but there's still alot of work on it
<lotuspsychje> JBViewerr_007: android runs smoother and easier on it (for now)
<JBViewerr_007> last year they were pushing for early this year, now they are pushin for late this year.  I am rooting for them, but meanwhile the market gets more saturated by the big kids.
<lotuspsychje> JBViewerr_007: well ubuntu desktop is the most popular Os, so theres great hope for touch too
<JBViewerr_007> I am hopeful. I was rooting for sailfish, jolla, webos, firefox, andybody to get a foot in there.
<lotuspsychje> JBViewerr_007: what you mean by rooting
<JBViewerr_007> Hardware prices will fall and if the OS is as good as it looks, perhaps Canonical can still get in there, in with the biggies.
<JBViewerr_007> rooting = hoping/cheering
<lotuspsychje> ah ok :p
<JBViewerr_007> hello, new people
<echoe> anyone know if they're actually going to release ubuntu touch non-beta on the 17th to release with ubuntu 14?
<echoe> maybe they're a bit behind. idk
<Snake2k> Hey guys, how do you get rid of the Keyboard whenever you stop typing something? :|
<echoe> open the side menu, then tap randomly a lot and hope/wait
<Snake2k> echoe: Aaahhh...
<Snake2k> echoe: I've been using Ubuntu-touch all day since I found out that MultiROM Manager lets you install it on the Nexus 5 by itself lol
<echoe> oh, nice
<echoe> i installed it on my nexus 4 but i have an iphone 5c i'm using, so.
<Snake2k> echoe: I got excited and let it do all the work, apparently it has a repo for the N5 build I guess...
<Snake2k> echoe: Well..................................................................... Its preference I guess.......................
<Snake2k> lol
<Snake2k> I can live with the iphone as long as I get to jailbreak it
<echoe> i like everything about the iphone
<echoe> except lack of swype.
<Snake2k> + Customization
<Snake2k> Like, I won't act like a customization freak but, I owned the iphone 5, io7 really starts hurting your eye at a point :|
<echoe> hopefully the full ubuntu touch will be nicer than it is now, i'd like a convergence device
<echoe> not if you get the 5c, then it's a color that matches the phone!
<echoe> so it's all like.
<echoe> ... match-y
<Snake2k> echoe: I totally agree, and an Ubuntu Touch supported by proper native apps rather than web apps... the web apps for fb/gmail/everything doesn't do justice to it, hope it catches the corporate eye or something
<echoe> just waiting for a phone that maybe comes with a dock that has multiple usb ports, and then is the speed of a core2duo from 2007
<Snake2k> All Ubuntu Touch needs is a native facebook, soundcloud, gmail/outlook app + contact sync, and I will start using the phone full time lol
<echoe> 2gb ram
<echoe> yeah the contact sync is really painful atm
<Snake2k> echoe: Can't you do the convergence now? (somehow)
<echoe> not without failure
<Snake2k> Aaahhh
<echoe> it's better in pretty much every way to have a laptop and a phone, rather than a phone that is the guts of a laptop
<echoe> cpu power in mobile devices isn't trivial enough yet
<Snake2k> Hahahaha I agree, although the phone does have some massive nuts, a laptop == a laptop, can't beat that...
<echoe> well i mean. the fastest phone is slower than a really old laptop still, at this point
<echoe> it's getting really close but i don't think we're there yet. and even when we are the appeal will be very limited
<Snake2k> echoe: That's true, but even though a phone does manage to turn into a laptop, exactly it won't be as appealing
<Snake2k> or maybe we're just getting old :|
<echoe> well
<echoe> i just switched laptops
<echoe> plugging my phone in and using it as a laptop takes a lot longer
<Snake2k> +1 and screen dependency, a keyboard, a mouth...
<echoe> convergence actually may be slower for no perceived benefit
<Snake2k> mouse*
<echoe> right.
<Snake2k> Or just get a laptop with everyone already on it and install ubuntu lol
<echoe> someone was using ubuntu on android as their main mobile device using the nexus 4 as a keyboard/mouse combo
<echoe> it looked awful
<Snake2k> Damn :|
<echoe> "look at my awesome keyboard, it's a phone"
<Snake2k> hahahahaha
<echoe> "look at me, when I monimize windows it goes at almost 4 fps"
<Snake2k> I never really got my hands on the ubuntu on android thing
<Snake2k> lol
<Snake2k> lol @ 4fps
<echoe> but yes. i actually switched to my ubuntu laptop. it's so old. :P but ubuntu ... can be fast
<Snake2k> Xfce + Ubuntu == Divine.
<Snake2k> Xfce + pretty much anything == Divine imo.
<echoe> eh. i like crunchbang more than ubuntu, but being the market leader ... leads to some nice things
<echoe> i needed the poewr saving thing. tfc? tlp?
<echoe> tlp.
<Snake2k> Huh?
<Snake2k> echoe: Well my list of Linux distros goes like Number #1 is a tie for Ubuntu and Fedora, everything else comes next lol
<echoe> no crunchbang?
<echoe> tlp is a power management suite http://linrunner.de/en/tlp/tlp.html
<Snake2k> echoe: Crunchbang is probably around 4-5
<Snake2k> echoe: There's debian and opensuse on the list and arch
<echoe> as someone who has to use fedora for work ... it's ... not that great of an experience
<Snake2k> echoe: its competitive lol
<Snake2k> echoe: ...why?
<Snake2k> Install xfce and live a very very happy life doing almost everything that everyone does lol
<echoe> it feels like a beta os continually
<Snake2k> but faster, if youre using gnome :|
<echoe> packages break occasionally
<Snake2k> Lol I know what you mean, "cutting-edge"
<echoe> gnome is awful, lol >< eck.
<Snake2k> Gnome is extremely awful.. but to be honest, gnome 3 is awful.. Im not a huge fan of KDE too
<echoe> yeah
<Snake2k> KDE has a great first impression for me, but it loses my attention after 10 minutes with its complexity and bloat
<echoe> if only i could fully learn i3. tiling is really where it's at
<lotuspsychje> did you guys see the elementaryOs video on omgubuntu?
<Snake2k> ^I LOVE i3!!!!!
<Snake2k> lotuspsychje: Nope
<echoe> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk9-v8Sl4yU < this is the video of ubuntu "convergence" i saw.
<Snake2k> lotuspsychje: Oh that reminds me, I've never tried elementary before :|
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/04/elementary-os-isis-video-demo-speed
<lotuspsychje> looks pretty decent aswell :p
<Snake2k> echoe: Yea that is kinda slow, needs more power
<Snake2k> lotuspsychje: impressive, very very impressive
<lotuspsychje> Snake2k: yeah i liked it aswell :p
<dbarth> ogra_: good morning
<dbarth> ogra_: i just noticed the upstart branch that landed for the oxide processes
<dbarth> ogra_: that's great! is there an image with it already?
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Look Up at the Sky Day! :-D
<ogra_> dbarth, yup, all readyx
 * didrocks counts on ogra_ to confirm that the webapps issues are all gone
<didrocks> he's a webapper! :)
<ogra_> didrocks, yeah, webapps are fine, my final touches to the boot speed too ... what i couldnt land (i probably did something wrong when trying to test, need to to talk to stgraber and popey ) is the cgmanager stuff ... and we shouldnt release without the change
<ogra_> whenever i try to land it the container doesnt come up completely ... i must be doing something wrong
<didrocks> ogra_: oh, you "don't redo the same thing than what we do in initrd" wasn't the last boot speed touch? :p
<didrocks> ah ok
<didrocks> sorry, answered before reading the end of the sentence
<didrocks> I saw a lxc update for cgmanager
<didrocks> but yeah, let's get that properly tested
<ogra_> well, we tested it properly
<didrocks> yeah, but let's ensure that the issue you are seeing is an user issue :)
<ogra_> but within the week that passed since we tested something might have changed or i do something wrong
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> I hope if we dismiss the Qt bug to promote an image today
<ogra_> right, thats why i want to hear popey and stgraber
<didrocks> then, we can take some risks (if any)
<didrocks> yep ;)
<didrocks> sounds good
<ogra_> well we need the dialer test to be more stable
<ogra_> for promotion ...
<ogra_> .... i think
<didrocks> ogra_: not sureâ¦ I'm asking sil2100/Mirv too look at it as we speak
<ogra_> yup saw that
<didrocks> ogra_: I'm afraid that we delay the promotion and then, something is going to rebreak us
<didrocks> let's see
<ogra_> it seems "very variable in its results" since friday :)
<didrocks> anyway, I guess this is the day to get deep dogfooding :)
<didrocks> yeah
 * ogra_ is dogfooding the whole weekend already :)
<didrocks> the fix that pitti mentioned on the ML from xnox wasn't the one we were hoping for apparently
<ogra_> and i have 13 new webapps for the store
<didrocks> ogra_: I didn't update the phone since Saturday morning because of a french conference
<ogra_> that fix only suppresses the ofono-script crashes
<didrocks> ogra_: so, nothing worrying for you?
<didrocks> ah, ok
<ogra_> i think the instability came with the new AP
<ogra_> i assume the thests need some extra updating or so
<didrocks> ogra_: I don't think it is, (for people interesting, look at #ubuntu-ci-eng)
<ogra_> yeah, weird, i thought it was
<Mirv> I got the same dialer error at least. clock went fine.
<ogra_> you probably also got a .crash file for dialer-app
<dholbach> ogra_, I couldn't recover my maguro phone from the update to 292
<dholbach> ogra_, do you have any tips on what I could do?
<dholbach> ogra_, basically on booting I get to the google screen and that's it
<ogra_> dholbach, i thought Tassadar sent some mail
<ogra_> after he fixed his multiarch thing
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> multiboot ... however
<dholbach> ogra_, he said something about multirom - but I can't remember having installed anything to do with multirom
<ogra_> you said you are dual booting
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> I didn't
<ogra_> oh
<ogra_> dholbach, thats weird, i upgraded both phones fine here ... one via OTA, the other via ubuntu-device-flash --bootstrap ... both work fine ... sounde a bit like your boot.img didnt get upgraded for whatever reason
<ogra_> *sounds
<ogra_> dholbach, do you have adb running when it hangs ?
<dholbach> ogra_, wow.. now is the first time the phone gets listed under 'adb devices'
<dholbach> ogra_, should a normal "ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel-proposed" be enough?
<ogra_> well the emergency adb only starts after ~60sec if something went wrong
<ogra_> you always want --bootstrap in that command
<dholbach> ogra_, or do I need to tell it to not wipe my data or something
<ogra_> to make sure the kernel and initrd get upgraded along
<dholbach> ah cool
<ogra_> no, wiping your data is done with --wipe
<timppa> Hi! Have you boys and girls seen this? http://forums.oneplus.net/threads/oneplus-one-all-you-need-to-know.718/ ? Specs seem rather nice
<dholbach> thanks ogra_ - I'll let you know how it goes
<ogra_> dholbach, well, wait
<ogra_> if you have adb working we should at least make sure its the same issue :)
<ogra_> initctl status lxc-android-config
<ogra_> dholbach, can you check the status of the container ?
<dholbach> ogra_, I can't "adb shell" into it
<dholbach> oh no
<dholbach> I can
<dholbach> wow
<ogra_> andf also "initctl status adbd-emergency-shell"
<dholbach> lxc-android-config stop/waiting
<ogra_> the first one should show it not running
<ogra_> and the second one should say running
<dholbach> adbd-emergency-shell start/running, process 666
<dholbach> I like the PID
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> same issue then
<ogra_> haha
<dholbach> ok... what do I do?
<dholbach> "ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel-proposed --bootstrap"?
<ogra_> well, --bootstrap is your best bet
<ogra_> right
<dholbach> crossing fingers then
<dholbach> "2014/04/14 11:05:53 Expecting the device to be in the bootloader... waiting"
<ogra_> right, you should see it going into the bootloader screen
<ogra_> (if not, just issue: adb reboot bootloader )
<dholbach> ogra_, it assumed that the device was "tuna", but when I told it to flash maguro it seems like it's working out now
<ogra_> maguro ?
<ogra_> thats a galaxy nexus
<ogra_> you have a nexus 4, no ?
<dholbach> no
<ogra_> oh
<ogra_> well, then you are on your own anyway
<ogra_> we dropped support for maguro with image 188
<dholbach> I know
<dholbach> yes, I am - but I'm glad you could help me with this issue right now anyway
<ogra_> right, but you might see other issues
<ogra_> since nopbody cares for that device anymore
<ogra_> we also dropped any support for surfaceflinger ... i'm not even sure it will still work even after a --bootstrap flash
<ogra_> so good luck with it :)
<dholbach> ogra_, it worked until the update on saturday
<ogra_> k
<dholbach> ogra_, it seems to sit there at http://paste.ubuntu.com/7248815/ now
<dholbach> not sure if I can do anything there
<dholbach> hmm, flashing seems to have worked fine, apparmor-parser seems to run through and then nothing much happens
<dholbach> "initctl status lxc-android-config" still says "stop/waiting"
<ogra_> well, i fear the old android imge the maguro uses simply wont work anymore
<ogra_> dholbach, you can use a sledgehammer i suppose ... adb shell update-initramfs -u
<Mirv> Chipaca: I'll look at that in a bit
<ogra_> and dont read the errors ... they will just scare you :)
<Chipaca> Mirv: ta
<dholbach> ogra_, it say something about readonly filesystem?
<ogra_> oh, right, needs to be rw for that
<ogra_> phablet-config writable-image
<ogra_> then update the initramfs and reboot
<dholbach> ogra_, will try - thanks for the help!
<ogra_> np
<ogra_> oh, and afterwards just adb shell rm /userdata/.writable_image and a reboot to make it ro again
<dholbach> ogra_, slegehammer worked - it just looks like my data is gone
<dholbach> now lunch and then I'll check and see what happened
<ogra_> that would be bad :/
<Mirv> Chipaca: landing-012
<Chipaca> Mirv: ta
<norembo> hello friends, I'm trying to install Ubuntu Touch on my Nexus 7 2013 wifi and have hit a blocker
<norembo> I used ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel --bootstrap and now my device will load the ubuntu recovery menu but won't boot into UI
<norembo> I am trying to revert to manual install, but there does not seem to be a trusty-preinstalled-touch-armel+flo.zip
<norembo> is  manual install not supported on the flo?
<ogra_> manual install as it was isnt really working anymore
<ogra_> the instructions are outdated
<ogra_> you are aware that the installlation process reboots several times, right ?
<ogra_> (and inbetween it copies files which takes quite some time)
<norembo> yes I let it keep rebooting and it ended up in the recovery menu
<norembo> now it only boots to the Google logo in normal mode, and I have to hold power + vol to get to recovery
<ogra_> it should reboot after several minutes when oit transferred the files
<norembo> perhaps I should flash it back to stock and try again?
 * ogra_ would just use ubuntu-device-flash again 
<ogra_> and really make sure to give it 15min or so
<norembo> okay thanks for the help ogra_, I will give that a try
<ogra_> (and ignore whats on screen on the device, reallly only watch the terminal)
<norembo> appreciated :)
<ogra_> stgraber, bah, crap ... the switch to cgmanager adds nearly a second to the boot time
<dholbach> ogra_, the data is gone - but I guess that's just another reminder to finally start looking into getting an N4
<ogra_> dholbach, s/looking into/jave jono getting one/
<dholbach> :)
<cwayne> dpm, ping
<dpm> hi cwayne
<cwayne> dpm, hey, just a quick question -- did the i18n enablement that went into unity-scope-click actually enable the scope's *title* to be translated?
<dpm> let me have a look at the MP
<dpm> cwayne, by looking at https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/unity-scope-click/translated/+merge/214182 it does not seem so. dobey can probably tell you more
<cwayne> yeah, i wasnt sure if i was missing something there or not
<dpm> cwayne, looking at the code I don't even know where the title is set. If it is set from the scope's ini file, then it won't be translatable
<dpm> mhr3, where do the scope titles come from? Is it somewhere in the code or is it from the .ini file?
<norembo> @ogra_ ubuntu-device-flash did not work initially, but I flashed back to stock then reran "ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel --bootstrap" and everything is now hunky dory and booting into Touch. Cheers :)
<ogra_> awesome
<ogra_> :)
<cwayne> dpm, cause to be honest, for all demos that's what we'd most need to be translated (as its the most obvious bits of scopes)
<dpm> cwayne, yes, and I'd add the app's names in the click scope to that too
<cwayne> dpm, absolutely
<timppa> hi, should the latest build boot?
<timppa> I can access adb but phone seems to be on Google logo
<mhr3> dpm, yes, in .ini
<dpm> thanks mhr3. Have you had any success in making the .ini files translatable? Did my reply to your e-mail help?
<mhr3> dpm, i'm still not sure how to do them, imo the current solution sucks for clicks
<dpm> mhr3, you were saying that loading them from .mo files would be slower than directly from each .ini file. Why is that? Is it simply because the .ini files are smaller?
<mhr3> then again, not having tools to merge the translations into the files sucks too
<dpm> yeah, but I guess we can easily mimick what intltool does with a cmake rule
<mhr3> dpm, well it's reading additional file binary vs not reading anything extra
<mhr3> dpm, plus we're imposing usage of .mo files on the app authors
<dpm> mhr3, but the .mo binary would already be read anyway, right? To load the scope's translations. Oh that perhaps happens later after reading the list of all scopes
<dobey> dpm, cwayne: it's not like "Apps" is a translatable word anyway
<dpm> well, it is in my language :)
<mhr3> dpm, why would it be read?
<dobey> to what? "Apps" ?
<dpm> Aplicacions
<dpm> we wouldn't shorten it
<dpm> also, Arabic and those languages that use different scripts would need the translation
<dpm> or Chinese
<dobey> dpm: instead of complex cmake rules to re-implement what intltool does, why not just have cmake run the intltool scripts to do all the work?
<dpm> dobey, that sounds good to me, although there's been that bug open in intltool open for a while
<cwayne> dobey, it would be in chinese
<dpm> dobey, bug 957132
<ubot5> bug 957132 in intltool "intltool-update doesn't support cmake" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/957132
<dobey> dpm: yes, intltool itself doesn't provide cmake integration yet, but there's no reason you can't run intltool-merge
<dpm> ah, good to know
<dobey> cwayne: we shouldn't be using "Apps" in English either then if nobody is using it in foreign languages.
<dpm> ?
<cwayne> huh
<dobey> but sure, i'm not disagreeing that the string should be translatable
<mhr3> dpm, so why would need to open the .mo?
<mhr3> wow, i need coffee
<dpm> mhr3, if the scope has translatable strings in the C++ code, it'll read them from the .mo file. The click scope already does that
<mhr3> dpm, imo that's stupid, we're forcing the app authors to use .mo for basic stuff as app titles, and we're slowing down things like click scope which now has to open and parse 200 .mo files because the user installed 200apps
<mhr3> as if having to read the 200 desktop files themselves wasn't enough
<dpm> mhr3, that wasn't a suggestion, that was a question. So I guess the answer is: .mo files are read later when opening an individual scope and don't need to be open when listing all scopes :)
<mhr3> it's not just scopes, it's apps as well
<dpm> right
<cwayne> dpm, mhr3 so what's the next steps then to getting the titles actually translated?  it's an absolute must for MAE
<mhr3> cwayne, what's MAE?
<cwayne> mobile asia expo
<cwayne> the MWC of asia basically :)
<mhr3> cwayne, so june, yea, no worries :)
<cwayne> mhr3, yeah, but it'd be great to have stuff translated well before then :)
<mhr3> cwayne, it will be translatable in a week... -ish ;)
<mhr3> dpm, a meeting i was supposed to have got postponed, how about a chat?
<dpm> mhr3, I'm on a call for the next 1h, but it might finish earlier
<Spii> solbei
<mhr3> dpm, k, ping me then pls
<dpm> mhr3, ok, sounds good
<Yer> hoi Gae
<Yer> gea it??
<Yer> huar
<Yer> ou solbai??
<cwayne> mardy, ping -- is there any way to script an online account creation?
<Yer> i have a question
<Yer> can anyone please help me?
<mardy> cwayne: see the account-console command line tool
<Yer> my ubuntu-touch isn working
<Yer> isn't
<Yer> *
<cwayne> mardy, yeah, i see you can script creation, what about actually logging in?
<Yer> I encountered an error while trying to install Ubuntu Touch on my Nexus 4.
<mardy> cwayne: are you talking about OAuth?
<Yer> After the following command:
<Yer> phablet-flash (cdimage-touch|cdimage-legacy|ubuntu-system|community) -b
<Yer> I received an error saying: syntax error near unexpected token 'cdimage-touch'
<ogra_> Yer, do not use phablet-flash ... see the install wikipage (link is in the channel topic)
<ogra_> phablet-flash is deprecated
<popey> Yer: what documentation did you find which says use "phablet-flash"? so we can correct it.
<Yer> aha
<Yer> ok i ll try
<cwayne> mardy, ya, for context, im trying to see if we can script logging into stuff for demos
<stgraber> ogra_: do you have a bootchart to see if we're needlessly wasting time anywhere?
<ogra_> stgraber, well, i could never see cgroup-lite in the bootchart, it was to fast ... with cgmanager and cgproxy lxc-android-config starts between 0.6 and 0.8 s later because they now start both beforehand ... i doubt there is much you can do
<ogra_> stgraber, http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/cgmanager-bootchart.png
<timppa> ogra_: Should the newest image boot on nexus 4 ?
<ogra_> stgraber, vs http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-bootcharts/ubuntu-phablet-trusty-294.png
<ogra_> stgraber, check when lxc-start is issued
<ogra_> t1mp, yes, rujnning it here
<ogra_> t1mp, and i think davmor2, popey, didrocks too
<didrocks> yeah
<timppa> ogra_: strange... I'm stuck on google logo...
<ogra_> t1mp, how did you upgrade ?
<timppa> ogra_: has been over an hour now.
 * ogra_ notices he got the nick wrong ... sorry t1mp 
<timppa> ogra_: are you writing to me or t1mp ?
<timppa> :)
<ogra_> timppa, how exactly did you upgrade
<pmcgowan> timppa, did you run out of disk space?
<timppa> ogra_: normally via OTA
<ogra_> smells like your boot.img wasnt upgraded
<ogra_> yeah, or that
<mardy> cwayne: the OAuth session can't be scripted, the web interaction can't be avoided
<mardy> cwayne: unless you already have a long-lasting OAuth token and you want to inject it into Online Accounts
<davmor2> ogra_: everytime you put t1mp do you actually mean timppa?
<timppa> ogra_: /dev/loop1                      106M  104M  1.5M  99% /lib/modules all other slices are not nearly full
<ogra_> timppa, thats a readonly image :)
<timppa> ogra_: yes it is
<ogra_> it is always that full i mean
<ogra_> wont change
<timppa> ok
<timppa> Are there any logfiles which could help to solve the issue?
<ogra_> df -h /cache
<ogra_> check that
<timppa> /dev/disk/by-partlabel/cache  552M   11M  541M   2% /android/cache
<timppa> ogra_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7249713/
<ogra_> timppa, yeah, looks like yur boot.img didnt get upgraded, which is weird
<ogra_> timppa, you can do: adb shell update-initramfs -u
<timppa> ogra_: I'll try that
<dpm> mhr3, it seems with my call is about to end, hangout in a couple of meetings?
<ogra_> timppa, and ignore all the errors you see ...
<ogra_> (just look the other way)
<mhr3> dpm, k
<ogra_> then reboot
<dpm> mhr3, sorry, *minutes :)
<mhr3> dpm, my brain autocorrected that ;)
<dpm> :-)
<timppa> ogra_: does this look "normal"? :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/7249729/
<ogra_> timppa, oops, make the image writable first
<timppa> ogra_: ok
<ogra_> sorry ... should have said that
<ogra_> the last line will tell you it writes the image to boot
<dobey> dpm, mhr3: do you need me in that hangout too?
<timppa> ogra_: was it .writable_image ?
<mhr3> dobey, why not
<ogra_> phablet-config writable-image
<ogra_> or touch /userdata/.writable_image
<ogra_> as you like
<dobey> ok
<dpm> dobey, that'd be great
<timppa> ogra_: Thanks again! It's working now
<ogra_> :)
<stgraber> ogra_: yeah, looks like we're about 0.5s behind now (looking at when ueventd is started because lxc-start itself will be faster when cgmanager is there which makes up a bit of the time)
<MacSlow> what the... when I plug in my N4 it keeps triggering nautilus to pop open file-manager windows
<MacSlow> anyone know why's that... and how to stop it?
<stgraber> ogra_: note that you'd save that 500ms if we had a kernel that's >= 3.8 because it'd then save us from spawning cgproxy, so we'll eventually get back to the old boot time
<ogra_> stgraber, lol
<ogra_> well, we dont have such a kernel
<ogra_> and are unlikely to get one even on other devices i guess
<ogra_> android is kind of focused on 3.5 on most devices ...
<ogra_> but yeah, i get what you mean
<stgraber> so if we really want the 500ms back, I have kernel patches on github which will introduce the bits we need in our existing kernels (only for the 3.5 though, backporting to 3.1 is a major pain)
<ogra_> stgraber, well, we can think about it post release i think
<ogra_> .5s are not the world
<stgraber> ogra_: it'd also give us lxc-attach which may be kind of nice
<ogra_> getting init to use all CPU would be far more interesting ;)
<ogra_> that would gain is more than a second i suppose
<ogra_> it still bothers me a lot that the container only uses half the CPU it should
<t1mp> 15:19:03 < ogra_> t1mp, how did you upgrade ?
<t1mp> ogra_: I'm not timppa
<ogra_> t1mp, i noticed then ... you two look so alike !
<t1mp> yes, I know
<ogra_> :)
<t1mp> on canonical irc I am timp, even more confusing
<mterry> doanac, so the unlock-device script in unity8-autopilot landed finally!  Are there any branches I can help make to use it?
<cwayne> mterry, any idea why your greeter-ux-fix branch hasn't landed? it's been approved..
<mterry> cwayne, next unity8 drop I imagine will include it
<cwayne> mterry, it hasn't been merged into trunk though
<mterry> cwayne, with CI train, merged == trusty now
<cwayne> orite
<cwayne> mterry, btw is dropping in a ~/.pam_environment still the right way to customize language?
<mterry> cwayne, I'd prefer you change the user's "Language" value in AccountsService.  That's what the split greeter looks at
<cwayne> mterry, but how can i do that from the custom tarball?
<mterry> cwayne, but without the split greeter, ~/.pam_environment is fine
<mterry> cwayne, you don't customize other AccountsService stuff already?
<cwayne> mterry, okay, so perhaps i need to make an upstart job in ubuntu-touch-customization-hooks
<mterry> i.e. we don't have a solution for that?
<cwayne> i think that's how we do the welcome screen
<cwayne> its done as an upstart job and does a dbus-send
<mterry> ah right
<cwayne> so i could add that in i suppose
<mterry> cwayne, an upstart job eh...  what does it trigger off of?
<cwayne> mterry, uh, it looks for some .file in ~/.cache i think
<mterry> cwayne, but what is it's 'start on' stanza?
<cwayne> oh, let me check
<cwayne> mterry, start on started dbus and started unity8
<mterry> cwayne, in split greeter mode, you are going to want that to be 'unity8-greeter-starting' or 'unity8-greeter-started' just FYI
<ogra_> cwayne, isnt that a bit late for fiddling with language settings ?
<ogra_> i would make it "start on starting unity8" so it applies before the shell starts
<cwayne> well that job doesnt do anything about languages yet
<ogra_> ah
<cwayne> that just changes the welcome screen background
<ogra_> ~/.pam_environment kind of implanted "languages" in my head
<ogra_> not osure why
<cwayne> mterry, so if i do this accountsservice change, will it make the wizard show up in that language as well (once the wizard lands/is enabled of course)
<mterry> cwayne, yes, should
<cwayne> mterry, okay great, that's what we want
<cwayne> (i.e. the carriers to be able to set the language of the OOBE)
<cwayne> mterry, what would the dbus-send look like for setting the language?
<mterry> cwayne, well.  Maybe we need another signal.  Because I think wizard will come up on unity8-greeter-starting.  So maybe your customization should start on starting wizard and change LANGUAGE for upstart environments as well as AccountsService.  But yeah, it can be done
<mterry> cwayne, something like gdbus call --system --dest org.freedesktop.Accounts --object-path /org/freedesktop/Accounts/User32011 --method org.freedesktop.Accounts.User.SetLanguage "en_US"
<olli> popey, do you have an eta for the fix coreapps fixes you discussed with bregma?
<popey> olli: given he pinged me about it a few minutes ago and I'm on a call talking about it now, not yet.
<popey> olli: I would like a full list of affected apps
<cwayne> mterry, alright, but that'd have to change once the wizard is actually set to run yeah?
<cwayne> so for now the unity8-greeter-starting would be more correct?
<olli> popey, ok
<dobey> popey: do your "no apps in click scope" issues still happen on the current image?
<mterry> cwayne, yeah, but even now the split greeter hasn't landed
<cwayne> oh damn
<cwayne> ok
<cwayne> so for now, the most correct way still is .pam_environment then
<popey> dobey: couldn't reproduce it, updated bug
<doanac> mterry: i need to figure out how to best update run-autopilot-tests.sh in lp:ubuntu-test-cases/touch
<dobey> popey: ok, thanks
<dobey> popey: and searching for locally installed works as well, right?
<popey> dobey: no. bug 1307052
<ubot5> bug 1307052 in unity-scope-click (Ubuntu) "Search doesn't find locally installed apps" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307052
<popey> dobey: felt like without network (maybe spotty 3g coverage or other network issue) I couldn't see any apps, other than "recent"
<dobey> popey: that's quite odd
<dobey> popey: looks like something is causing the scope (or scoperunner) to crash
<dobey> :(
<dobey> popey: i made the same thing happen on my n7 here, and have updated the bug. thanks
<tshirtman> hm, apparently i lost my su on android, when or sometime after installing ubuntu phone, now i'd like to go to recovery to fix it, but of course it boots to ubuntu, and when i try uninstalling ubuntu from the android ubuntu app, nothing happens except the "uninstinstalling ubuntu" message.
<tshirtman> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7250048/ i get this in logcat, but i'm not certain it's all there should be
<tshirtman> uninstalling*
<sergiusens> ogra_: can you quickly check https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/phablet-tools/flash_deprecation_warning/+merge/215681
<ogra_> sergiusens, to slow
<ogra_> already approved
<sergiusens> lol
<ogra_> (1 sec before your ping :) )
<sergiusens> plars: doanac does this work for you https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/phablet-tools/flo_support/+merge/215683
<sergiusens> ogra_: how do you manage?
<tshirtman> may i somehow chroot into android from ubuntu to install an apk? :]
<ogra_> sergiusens, mail :)
<plars> sergiusens: yes
<plars> sergiusens: that's exactly what I did locally :)
<sergiusens> plars: ok, being siloed now
<ogra_> tshirtman, there is no java ....
<plars> sergiusens: I added a +1 on it, but I don't have permissions to topapprove it
<ogra_> the container is solely for hardware drivers
<tshirtman> well, if chroot worked (no idea) then java would be there, no?
<sergiusens> plars: no worries; train doesn't requrie that :-)
<plars> right
<plars> old habits
<ogra_> tshirtman, why would chroot cvhange anything about the container contents ... the android container we use only has a handfull odf drivers and services needed to use them
<tshirtman> oh well, i'll copy /bin/su into /android/system/bin/
<tshirtman> and hope for the best
<ogra_> tshirtman, what do you try to achieve by that ?
<tshirtman> get su back in android
<ogra_> (apart from ... system is readonly)
<tshirtman> i know my way around mount -o remount,rw
<ogra_> why would you want to have su in the android container ?
<ogra_> that container only holds like 8 service binaries
<tshirtman> ah, unchecked assumption, that the android here is a link to the other android system
<ogra_> not an "android"
<tshirtman> thanks
<tshirtman> any way to access the "full" android from ubuntu, the one i can dualboot to?
 * ogra_ has no idea about dualboot ... luckily we dont support it officially :)
<tshirtman> heh, yeah, well, i have no idea if it's the ubuntu installer that broke su for android or not, it just seems like a likely suspect here ;)
<ogra_> right, file a bug against it
<tshirtman> any idea why the ubuntu android app fails uninstalling ubuntu?
<davmor2> beuno: we still have Online Music Canonical Ltd listed on the scopes scope should that be just changed to 7D and given the 7D links instead I'm assuming it might not work at some point else
<davmor2> didrocks: ^  only new issue found so far
<beuno> davmor2, __lucio__
<__lucio__> davmor2, we are giving 7d links, maybe we need to fix the name
<davmor2> __lucio__: the link in the browser is correct, however the download from U1 button that links to 7d and online music Canonical is a little mis leading
<__lucio__> let me check
<__lucio__> davmor2, ^
<davmor2> __lucio__: http://davmor2.co.uk/~davmor2/screenshots-phone/device-2014-04-14-161556.png
<davmor2> beuno: ^
<__lucio__> davmor2, so, "buy in 7d" instead of u1. makes sense :) anything else we missed?
<davmor2> __lucio__: is the play button getting that from U1 or 7d
<__lucio__> davmor2, i can check, but i dont think its us.
<davmor2> __lucio__: might be worth a double check other than that looks good if I click on the buy button it links to 7d and right song so that bit is good ;)
<olli> popey, for e.g. ubuntu-calendar-app... how do I find the executable?
<asac> didrocks: i think jfunk acked things; e.g. we can promote
<asac> in time to check out whats next in the meeting
<popey> olli: click the dash and type "cal"?
<olli> popey, I am looking for the executable so I can change exec/-qt5
<popey> dpkg -L ubuntu-calendar-app | grep desktop
<olli> popey, does that show something to you?
<olli> popey, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7250271/
<popey> oh, app name wrong
<popey> grep Exec `dpkg -L calendar-app | grep desktop`
<olli> arg @ name, thx popey
<popey> so /usr/bin/calendar-app
<mhall119> didrocks: promotion today?
<popey> funny man
<olli> popey, thx, the README in touch-coreapps has it listed as u-calendar-app
<olli> that's where I got it from
<popey> there's a README in there?
<popey> blimey
<popey> wow, thats never been updated
<popey> I'll fix that
<olli> popey, mhall119, is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps still accurate? I.e. are these apps all available?
<popey> all except email
<popey> as that's not a click package yet
<popey> (and technically not a core app)
<didrocks> mhall119: wait for the email; I have 10 people asking individually for this :p
<olli> popey, what about docviewer-app
<olli> don't see that for t
<popey> olli: can i get access to the doc, it will be quicker â»
<olli> popey, is https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/daily/+index?field.series_filter=trusty then a more comprehensive list for what should be in 14.04
<olli> popey, done
<popey> olli: struck out the ones that aren't available
<olli> popey, mind looking at the bottom of the list
<olli> popey, 66-86
<olli> that's straight from the PPA
<popey> dupes
<olli> I just added
<popey> ok
<popey> lets do this the other way round
<popey> rather than you randomly finding apps in the ppa, I'll list the apps that you should look at â»
<olli> wfm
<olli> popey, it's not so much finding them randomly, more the opposite ... the ones I don't find are confusing ;)
<popey> well I'm wondering why you're not just installing touch-coreapps and running from dash
<popey> you know, the way users do
<olli> popey, b/c of the bug bregma pinged you about
<popey> ok, but the touch-coreapps package only installs specific apps...
<olli> if I run them from dash and they don't have exec or -qt 5 added it doesn't work
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ apt-cache show touch-coreapps | grep Depends
<popey> Depends: ubuntu-calculator-app, calendar-app, ubuntu-clock-app, ubuntu-weather-app, ubuntu-filemanager-app, rssreader-app, ubuntu-terminal-app, sudoku-app, stock-ticker-mobile-app, dropping-letters, reminders-app, music-app
<popey> those^
<olli> popey, you haven't highlighted stock-ticker-mobile-app in the spreadsheet
<olli> oversight?
<popey> yup
<olli> k
<davmor2> __lucio__: what package is that scope under so I can file a bug please
<olli> so, iow, don't bug you about other apps that aren't listed ;)
<popey> ya
<__lucio__> davmor2, curucu
<davmor2> __lucio__: ta
<__lucio__> davmor2, ping me with the bug links if you do please
<davmor2> __lucio__: writing it now
 * didrocks can already hear an happy mhall119
<didrocks> </spoiler alert>
<davmor2> didrocks: it's not his birthday again is it
<cwayne> didrocks, PROMOTION?!
<didrocks> davmor2: oh sure, we should wait :p
<didrocks> cwayne: shhh, not too loud :p
<Laney> it's pitti's birthday
<Laney> you can dedicate it to him
<didrocks> oh right, that works!
<didrocks> Laney: added as last line and posted!
<Laney> :D
<davmor2> The pitti release, whose birthday is tomorrow?
<mhall119> didrocks: I'd put all of my love for you in a box and mail it...but the customs fees would be insane
<mhall119> :)
<didrocks> mhall119: ahah ! :)
<mhall119> should r250 get a push notification about the new image, or was that not landed in 250?
<didrocks> mhall119: no, push notification isn't there yet (and reverted last Friday as well, but should land later today/early tomorrow)
<mhall119> ok
<didrocks> mhall119: so it will be in the next promoted image only
<mhall119> I was going to wait for that to come in and get a screenshot of it, but now I'll just go upgrade
<davmor2> __lucio__: sorry for the delay https://bugs.launchpad.net/u1-test-utils/+bug/1307617
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1307617 in u1-test-utils "Removing U1 from the canonical online music scope." [Undecided,New]
<davmor2> __lucio__: made it as generic as possible :)
<__lucio__> davmor2, thanks
<didrocks> mhall119: so enthousiat that you even beat ogra_ in sharing my post! :)
<mhall119> :)
<didrocks> enthousiast*
<mhall119> didrocks: you have no idea, you've made my week
<didrocks> mhall119: EOW then! \o/
<mhall119> works for me, there's nothing else going on this week is there?
<didrocks> I guess it's a quiet week anywayâ¦ nothing important :p
<cwayne> mhall119, nah, it's gonna be a slow week :P
<doanac> ogra_: would you be opposed to small change to phablet-bootchart: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7250681/
<doanac> that will give me a little more flexibility on report generation that I think the qa-dashboard will wind up needing
<ogra_> ah, k
<ogra_> no prob, can you make an MP
<doanac> ack
<doanac> thanks
<ogra_> it isnt easy to land stuff atm
<doanac> ogra_: yeah. i figure we might have to used a patched version for a while
<ogra_> well it isnt on the image so it might be safe
<ogra_> and we dont have a regular test with it yet either
 * rickspencer3 drums fingers
<doanac> ogra_: https://code.launchpad.net/~doanac/phablet-tools/pbc-custom-args/+merge/215705
<ogra_> thanks
<mhall119> alecu: apps scope crashes on search, right out of the gate
<alecu> mhall119: 294?
<mhall119> yup
<alecu> mhall119: any steps to reproduce? it seems to be working for me
<mhall119> alecu: I just searched for "Sett" to open settings and everything but the Recent Apps thumbnail went away
<alecu> mhall119: so, not yet logged into u1, right?
<mhall119> I was before I updated...
<sergiusens> robotfuel: can you give this a quick test? just phablet-network, to see if it continues to work for you https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dFlCc1VzeVZzWmdBZS11WERjdVc3dmc&usp=drive_web#gid=34
<mhall119> alecu: not even installed apps are showing though
<Aki-Thinkpad> in QML, is there a conditional layout that corresponds to whether the phones orientation, or do I basically have to estimate it?
<Aki-Thinkpad> - to whether
<Aki-Thinkpad> that corresponds to the phones orientation*
<alecu> mhall119: weird. I'm on a fresh install of 294, logged into u1 after I tried to install one app, and I can search with no errors
<pmcgowan> mhall119, I saw discussion earlier about a crash when spotty internet
<mhall119> pmcgowan: I'm on my home wifi, haven't had any issues with it
<pmcgowan>  bug 1307052
<ubot5> bug 1307052 in unity-scope-click (Ubuntu) "Scope crashes when searching with poor connectivity" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307052
<pmcgowan> maybe something else then
<mhall119> do the action buttons on a scope preview do anything yet?
<mhall119> none of mine seem to work
<alecu> mhall119: that sounds like the scope crashed, because they should
<alecu> mhall119: Uninstall and Open, right?
<mhall119> alecu: I haven't tried the apps scope preview, because I don't have any apps results in the dash
<mhall119> alecu: but Amazon's "View on Amazon" and Reddit's "View" and "# Comments" buttons do nothing
<alecu> ok, don't know about those two
<robotfuel> sergiusens: sure
<rickspencer3> hey ogra, popey, or someone ...
<rickspencer3> the shell seems to be unresponsive
<rickspencer3> but I could adb shell in
<rickspencer3> and appport is at 100%
<mhall119> G+ app is usable again \o/
<rickspencer3> should I just let apport do its thing, or should I do something more to help?
<ogra_> rickspencer3, how does /var/crash look like
<ogra_> (funny that i just pointed out to asac how bad .crash files are for us in the other channel)
<rickspencer3> ogra_, there is a new _usr_bin_unity file there
<rickspencer3> there are 2 other crash files, but htey are days old
<piggz> hi...im after some guidance on building ubuntu touch on an an unsupported phone (htc ace) ....
<ogra_> right, we just discussed exactly that crash file
<ogra_> heh
<rickspencer3> ogra_, also, ack on the .crash files
<rickspencer3> oops, now unity restarted
<Aki-Thinkpad> piggz, did you check if there is an unofficial image yet?
<rickspencer3> ogra_, I guess we could turn it off for most people, but leave it on for suckers like me so we still get the data
<Aki-Thinkpad> piggz, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<piggz> im following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting ..
<rickspencer3> in the meantime, looks like there is nothing else for me to do here :)
<robotfuel> sergiusens: phablet network continues to work for me.
<asac> right, i think we disabled crash dumping for last release
<ogra_> we didnt iirdc
<ogra_> *iirc
<piggz> Aki-Thinkpad: there is a very old one
<asac> rickspencer3: did this crash happen on shutdown?
<Aki-Thinkpad> piggz, That is no good :P
<robotfuel> sergiusens: the one in my MP, not the one in the distro
<rickspencer3> asac, no
<rickspencer3> but nice try
<Aki-Thinkpad> piggz, I tried getting into it, but I found it far too complicated for myself, especially not having any experience with Android prior.
<Aki-Thinkpad> I was trying to port to a barnes and nobel tablet
<piggz> Aki-Thinkpad: the official cm repo is gingerbread ... so 'breakfast ace' fails becuase there is no repo .. however there is good support on an unoficial repo
<ogra_> ah, then it is a different one
<piggz> https://github.com/Mustaavalkosta/android_device_htc_ace
<asac> rickspencer3: the crash ogra was referring to was supposed to happen on shutdown only (and then be annoying on startup); if its something different i want to know
<ogra_> right
<piggz> so, my question is .. how do i make the build system use this repo?
<rickspencer3> asac, ogra_ what do you want me to do?
<piggz> Aki-Thinkpad: i also have never done android dev (c++ qt/qml ... which is why ubuntu-touch is interesting)
<rickspencer3> oh, there's another crash file now
<asac> rickspencer3: first, report a bug with the .crash file attached; then see if you can find out how to repro
<rickspencer3> messaging-app
<ogra_> rickspencer3, well, first of all file a bug indeed
<Aki-Thinkpad> piggz, oh that is easier; and a lot of fun
<rickspencer3> ogra_, which package?
<ogra_> unity8
<Aki-Thinkpad> piggz, that I can actually help you get your foot in the door if you are interested.
<ogra_> since that has the crash file
<piggz> Aki-Thinkpad: well, i already have qml apps on maemo, harmattan, amdroid and bb10 .... just missing ubuntu, tizen and ios :)
<alecu> mhall119: btw, is there a crash file for the click scope in your device?
<mhall119> alecu: there's one for unity8 and another for scoperunner
<mhall119> I don't see anything for the apps scope specifically
<alecu> mhall119: I'd love to see the scope runner one
<ogra_> rickspencer3, dont forget to run the app upidater too btw, you will love the new G+ app
<ogra_> promised :)
<Aki-Thinkpad> piggz, ah well then I think you got all you need. What apps did you develop?
<alecu> mhall119: (the new scopes are .so's loaded by scope runner)
<asac> i really find it weird that we have to remind people to update apps - really :)
<ogra_> asac, had the feature landed i wouldnt have to do that :P
<ogra_> but it isnt done yet
<asac> ogra_: but is it planned at all?
<asac> (thats my main concern)
<ogra_> yes
 * asac digs in spreadsheets
<ogra_> it was even tried to land a few times already
<asac> ogra_: who owns that?
<ogra_> but had issues each time
<asac> ogra_: really?
 * asac starts to remember something
<rickspencer3> I think seb128 is making the updater panel of settings work with all apps
<ogra_> asac, charles and seb128 ...
<ogra_> iirc
<ogra_> right, both upgraders are being merged
<rickspencer3> jeez, 44 megs?
<piggz> Aki-Thinkpad: couple of games (space invaders clone, and some games similar to Pang (amiga days)) .. mapping/gps, news reader for ownCloud, maybe some others :)
<rickspencer3> ogra_, asac bug #1307634
<ubot5> bug 1307634 in Unity 8 "Crash When Using Phone" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307634
<asac> rickspencer3: was that on first run after upgrade?
<rickspencer3> asac, yes
<asac> rickspencer3: can you try removing the .crash files and see if it happens again easily?
<rickspencer3> should I be concerned that messaging-app also has a crash file now?
<rickspencer3> asac, sure, deleted
<asac> rickspencer3: on messaging-app -> did you have it open when unity crashed?
<rickspencer3> asac, yes
<rickspencer3> it was the running app when the screen seemed frozen
<rickspencer3> on a side note, the first app that I wrote for Ubuntu Touch *still* working
<alecu> asac: since you mentioned .crash files... where can I find how to get backtraces from those .crash files? I'm trying to debug a click scope crash that mhall found.
<ogra_> on the wiki :)
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<asac> i dont know if we support retracing those automatically; ogra and folks would surely know more
<asac> yeah
<ogra_> theoretically they should be auto-uploaded ... at least ev claims that all the time ... i personally have never had a .upload file for a .crash file here though
<ogra_> but i might just update to often
<Aki-Thinkpad> piggz, Wow nice; I am jealous looking at all that you have accomplished thus far :o
<mhall119> ok, the new right-edge switcher is beautiful
<cwayne> right?
<cwayne> it's awesome
<mhall119> I'm going to be switching windows just to see it
<alecu> ogra_: thanks for the pointers. Now, do you know if it's possible to use apport-trace from a .crash from a phone? or should I install apport-retrace and deps on the phone itself?
<alecu> *if it's possible to use apport-retrace /on the desktop/ from a .crash from a phone.
<ogra_> i think you need to do it on the phone
<piggz> Aki-Thinkpad: thx :)
<piggz> now, if only i can get ubuntu on this old phone !
<Aki-Thinkpad> piggz, good luck. I'm saving up for one of the official phones
<sergiusens> cjwatson: hey, do you know what's going on here? http://paste.ubuntu.com/7251105/ it's a newly created click chroot
<sergiusens> same thing happens with s/papi/qml/
<ogra_> sergiusens, was that during bootstrapping ?
<sergiusens> ogra_: no
<ogra_> we just had an image build fail ... thanks to ubuntu-touch being uninstallable
<ogra_> k
<sergiusens> ogra_: the click chroot is rather minimal with build tools/deps; not sure I'd be hit by the seed issue you saw
<ogra_> right, then its fine
<ogra_> (wasnt a seed issue, it was actually a missing package in the archive)
<rickspencer3> ogra_, asac so ... my unity crash, while I was out I remembered what I was doing
<rickspencer3> is it possible that launching updates that I had previously "locked to launcher" could have led to the issue?
<ogra_> the click update manager you mean ?
<ogra_> shouldnt cause such crashers
<ogra_> (theoretically)
<rickspencer3> ogra_, I just ran all the updates in the updater, I thought it was just Ubuntu that go updated
<rickspencer3> ogra_, well, the launcher items for sure didn't launch the app
<ogra_> hmm, intresting
<asac> rickspencer3: do those launchers work now?
<ogra_> i fear we need Saviq for this one though
<rickspencer3> asac, well, sadly it only occurred to me later that that could have been the reproducer
<rickspencer3> so I took off the launcher items, ran the apps from the scope, and repinned to the launcher
<rickspencer3> they work now
<rickspencer3> so, basically, the answer is "yes I think I destroyed the state necessary to reproduce the crasher"
<rickspencer3> :/
<rickspencer3> though I suppose someone could easily try to reproduce it
<rickspencer3> ogra_, did I get updated camera and music apps when I ran the updater?
<asac> posted it to the bug
<asac> anyone here who hasn't upgraded to latest promoted devel?
<ogra_> rickspencer3, no idea, the click updates are totally async
<asac> if so you might want to check with rick about his case
<ogra_> cant tell when you got what
<asac> ok robru has a few cycles and will try; but dont expect to get too much
<robru> rickspencer3, hey, what was the image version you used when you originally pinned the launcher items?
<robru> rickspencer3, I can flash it, pin some things, then update and try to reproduce
<rickspencer3> robru, it was the last promoted image, I suppose
<robru> rickspencer3, ok great, I will flash that right away. thanks
<rickspencer3> robru, cool, I hope that's what it was
 * ogra_ doubts that 
<ogra_> but good luck anyway
<robru> ogra_, still, eliminate as many variables as possible
<ogra_> yep
<robru> rickspencer3, oh and which apps were locked to launcher?
<rickspencer3> robru, it was music and camera in this case
<rickspencer3> I think
<robru> ok
<sergiusens> ogra_: hey, can you do a quick review of https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/phablet-tools/1306251/+merge/215736 ?
<ogra_> sergiusens, approves
<ogra_> s/s/d/
<sergiusens> ty!
<robru> rickspencer3, hah, I'm seeing apport pegging the CPU on image 250 itself after locking ~6 icons
<robru> no upgrade necessary
<robru> also unity just restarted
<asac> right thats the crash
<asac> robru: 6 icons?
<asac> robru: maybe thats because we get OOM?
<asac> robru: can you try locking icon, then closing app properly
<asac> then locking next icon etc.?
<asac> and see if it also happens that way?
<robru> hmm
<asac> not saying OOM is any better
<ogra_> OOM of unity =
<ogra_> ?
<ogra_> very very unlikely
<robru> hmm, unity is still frozen even though I just saw it restart
<asac> ogra_: no, OOM of something, making unity a victim of killing
<ogra_> yeah, even that
<asac> ogra_: or maybe OOM of something, killing that something, and unity8 doesnt like if apps/scopes are getting killed :)
<ogra_> it would still kill all apps first
<asac> and dies with them
<robru> now qmlscene is using 108% CPU
<asac> ogra_: but how good is unity at surving dying apps?
<ogra_> should be fine
<ogra_> thats all in upstart-app-launch hands
<asac> ogra_: but unity probably has some connection to them
<asac> checks their surfaces to display them etc.
<asac> who knows what :)
<ogra_> unity just wraps around the apps if one dies it shouldnt die along
<robru> asac, ogra_ rickspencer3 it seems to be music app taking lots of CPU and bothering unity
<asac> theory and practice ;)
<ogra_> but well, Saviq  knows :)
<ogra_> robru, do you actually have any mp3s in place ?
<asac> Saviq: kgunn: ^^ we are getting closer to reproduce nasty unity crash
<robru> ogra_, no! music app told me to download some then restart the app. it's just sitting there, not playing, taking 50% CPU for some reason
<kenvandine> bfiller, can you still reproduce bug 1305128
<ubot5> bug 1305128 in Unity 8 "Apps don't always get focused when started with upstart-app-launch" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1305128
<asac> Saviq: kgunn: robru is on it; check with im
<robru> (top reports qmlscene taking 108% CPU, `ps aux |grep qml` shows music app taking 50%)
<bfiller> kenvandine: let me try
<ogra_> robru, hmm, interesting, probably the testers always have music in place and missed it
<bfiller> kenvandine: yes can reproduce
<kenvandine> bfiller, thx, can you comment on that bug?
 * kenvandine is trying to get his phone to boot...
<kenvandine> [    6.141584] init: lxc-android-config main process (634) terminated with status 1
<kenvandine> has anyone else seen that?
<kenvandine> i just updated my mako to 294 after not updating all weekend
<ogra_> kenvandine, via a normal OTA upgrade ?
<kenvandine> yeah
 * ogra_ knows there can be issues with dpkg ... but OTA should always work 
<kenvandine> anything i can do to try to get it booting?
<ogra_> kenvandine, mmake it writable ... run update-initramfs -u and reboot (then make it readonly again if you want)
<kenvandine> it's writable already
<kenvandine> ok
<ogra_> (ignore the scary errors from update-initramfs)
<bfiller> kenvandine: https://bugs.launchpad.net/content-hub/+bug/1305128/comments/6
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1305128 in Unity 8 "Apps don't always get focused when started with upstart-app-launch" [Critical,Confirmed]
<kenvandine> ogra_, thx... that did it
<kenvandine> weird
<ogra_> kenvandine, yeah, i dont get why your boot.img wasnt upgraded with the OTA upgrade
<ogra_> stgraber, any idea ? thats not the first time i hear about it
<mhall119> wow, apps searching is blazing fast now!
<kenvandine> ha... now that it booted image 295 is available :)
 * kenvandine tries OTA again :)(
<ogra_> heh, you are faster than the image bot announcing it :P
<kenvandine> :)
<stgraber> ogra_: seems weird, not sure what could cause that. Is that always with people using writable devices?
<ogra_> stgraber, hm, not sure, i forgot who else pinged me about it the last two days
<ogra_> ken surely had it writable
<ogra_> stgraber, llets just keep an eye on it
<stgraber> yeah
<kenvandine> i'll let you guys know if i hit it again
<ogra_> well, it might go unnoticed the next time ...
<ogra_> this time we had code explicitly move from the rootfs to the initrd
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> well 295 update worked
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> now you got the right initrd already :)
<robru> asac, ogra_ rickspencer3 : yeah, closing apps after locking them allowed me to add many more apps
<kenvandine> bfiller, see my comment as well
<robru> just flashing OTA now
<Aki-Thinkpad> Would anyone be interested in creating a demo application with me, that uses every ubuntu touch component?
<mhall119> Aki-Thinkpad: there's already the component gallery
<Aki-Thinkpad> mhall119, ah?
<Aki-Thinkpad> Where is this component gallery?
<mhall119> Aki-Thinkpad: if you have the Ubuntu SDK (QtCreator) installed, go to Tools->Ubuntu->Showcase Gallery
<Aki-Thinkpad> mhall119, thanks
<mhall119> np
<mhall119> there's one for HTML5 somewhere too, I think, daker might be able to tell you where
<Aki-Thinkpad> bah html5 no thanks. Native is where its at ;)
<sergiusens> ogra_: one more https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/phablet-tools/1306366/+merge/215750
<daker> HTML5 is native ;)
<cjwatson> sergiusens: Sorry, I have no more time tonight, please mail me
<mhall119> HTML5 is as native as QML on Ubuntu
<sergiusens> cjwatson: no worries
<sergiusens> I'll email
<cjwatson> sergiusens: But I rather expected some of this kind of thing as I wasn't able to get to being able to simply install ubuntu-sdk-libs-dev:armhf ...
<sergiusens> probably some dep added that breaks multiarch; maybe it should be a requirement before adding to the seed
<cjwatson> Well, no
<mhall119> kenvandine: http://ubuntuone.com/0ny0Jh8nuBqdBmDqeLQBBf any idea what's going on here?
<cjwatson> It never worked, I've been trying to fix it
<cjwatson> I just wasn't able to get all the way there.  Too many delays
<kenvandine> mhall119, no... that is scary
<mhall119> kenvandine: I haven't dist-upgraded in a couple days, let me try that and see if it gets better
<kenvandine> mhall119, is that adding a new account or updating the token?
<sergiusens> cjwatson: ok; I'll email you to not keep you here any longer
<mhall119> kenvandine: an existing account, I got a notification bubble that I had to re-authenticate it (not uncommon) but when I clicked the "Grant Access" button it loaded that page
<ogra_> sergiusens, done
<robru> rickspencer3, seems like i reproduced something similar to what you saw: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity8/+bug/1307634
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1307634 in Unity 8 "Crash When Using Phone" [Undecided,New]
<robru> rickspencer3, although I saw the crash on image 250, image 295 hasn't crashed on me yet
<kenvandine> mhall119, i had to grant access for facebook this morning too
<kenvandine> worked fine for me
<kenvandine> mhall119, any chance your account was added some some test facebook app ID?
<mhall119> I doubt it, I don't do anything un-user-like with online accounts
<asac> robru: so you say you can PIN many apps without closing on 295?
<asac> thats good news
<kenvandine> mhall119, go to a guest account
<kenvandine> and try to add a new account
<kenvandine> see if it works
<rickspencer3> robru, hmm, seems mysterious
<popey> 20:58:06 < mhall119> kenvandine: http://ubuntuone.com/0ny0Jh8nuBqdBmDqeLQBBf any idea what's going on here?
<popey> key was revoked
<popey> mhall119: bug 1304798
<ubot5> bug 1304798 in Online Accounts: Account plugins "Unable to access Facebook online account" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304798
<mhall119> ouch
<kenvandine> ugh
<kenvandine> popey, when?
<pmcgowan> mhall119, coming in late but fix for that is in process
<kenvandine> since this morning?
<kenvandine> i had to grant access this morning :)
<pmcgowan> kenvandine, end of last week, robru has the MR I believe
<kenvandine> maybe mine is using a different key then
 * popey is still sad that its broken on phone
<popey> and has been for a while
<popey> i seem to be the only one affected
<popey> bug 1294768
<ubot5> bug 1294768 in ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts (Ubuntu) "Can't login to facebook on mako #246" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294768
<robru> pmcgowan, what do I have?
<robru> asac, actually it was image 250 I was doing all the pinning, just that closing the app after pinning helps
<robru> pmcgowan, kenvandine : oh the facebook token thing? that should be fixed already in trusty and I'm just SRUing it now
<kenvandine> robru, that explains why it didn't bite me
<kenvandine> but did bite mhall119
<robru> kenvandine, yeah, just confirmed, trusty is working
<Aki-Thinkpad> is there a reason why the ubuntu component showcase gallery is not starting? It just hangs at 0 progress in the build, and there are no messages indicating where it is hanging from
 * mhall119 is on trusty, but not up to date
<mhall119> Aki-Thinkpad: what version of Ubuntu are you running?
<Aki-Thinkpad> 14.04... sec let me check if its still the beta
<mhall119> bzoltan: ^^ can you help Aki-Thinkpad
<Aki-Thinkpad> mmm yah I don't get this. I think this should be the release candidate, but no where is it telling me this. It just says 14.04 lts
<echoe> Will I need to be running 14.04 to install Ubuntu touch 14.04?
<mhall119> Aki-Thinkpad: it will keep you updated, the beta and release candidates arne't different things, just different points in time
<mhall119> echoe: no, ubuntu-device-flash should work from older (but supported) Ubuntu releases
<echoe> ok, just triple checking, heh.
<echoe> (my laptop is on 12.04 for voltage control)
<Aki-Thinkpad> mhall119, well 3.13.0-24-generic is my kernel
<pmcgowan> Aki-Thinkpad, its not running for me either from qtcreator
<pmcgowan> Aki-Thinkpad, you can run it directly at /usr/lib/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/examples/ubuntu-ui-toolkit-gallery/gallery
<mhall119> huh, it ran from QtCreator for me, also on 14.04
<mhall119> I wonder if I have some older packages or configs that let it run
<pmcgowan> hmm
<pmcgowan> mhall119, what version of the plugin do you have
<pmcgowan> I have qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu:
<pmcgowan>   Installed: 3.0.1+14.04.20140410.1-0ubuntu1
<Aki-Thinkpad> pmcgowan, ah good, I'll check mine
<Aki-Thinkpad> 3.0.1+14.04.20140410.1-0ubuntu1 for me
<Aki-Thinkpad> 3.0.1+14.04.20140410.1-0ubuntu1 for you
<pmcgowan> need to see mhall119's version
<pmcgowan> since his works
<pmcgowan> Aki-Thinkpad, did you run it directly on command line?
<Aki-Thinkpad> pmcgowan, situational irony
<Aki-Thinkpad> was just about to say
<Aki-Thinkpad> yah
<Aki-Thinkpad> just did
<pmcgowan> ok
<Aki-Thinkpad> err, iwrongy... I don't think thats irony :/
<Aki-Thinkpad> anyways, thanks
<pmcgowan> sure, will figure out why it didnt work from qtc
<Aki-Thinkpad> pmcgowan, there are no terminal messages or any debug info from my end
<pmcgowan> same here
<pmcgowan> probably just using the wrong path
<Aki-Thinkpad> you'd think it would say something though
<mhall119> pmcgowan: 3.0.1+14.04.20140410.1-0ubuntu1 but I just apt-get upgraded to that and now it doesn't work for me either
<pmcgowan> mhall119, bug entry in progress
<Aki-Thinkpad> farm that delicious karma
<sergiusens> kenvandine: hey, do you know why when I select to add attachments on gmail the provider list to select from is empty?
<kenvandine> sergiusens, did that branch land already?
<sergiusens> kenvandine: I'm on standard devel-proposed with no extras
<kenvandine> sergiusens, i suspect that's because not all the bits needed have landed :)
<kenvandine> Elleo, ^^
<sergiusens> ah, makes sense :-)
<Elleo> sergiusens: yeah, it's just that the webapps need updating with new permissions
<Elleo> they don't currently have the context_exchange permission, but that should be added when they're next updated :)
<Elleo> sergiusens: https://code.launchpad.net/~michael-sheldon/webapps-core/file-upload/+merge/215312 <-- once that gets merged and they're released
<Elleo> sergiusens: gmail in the browser app should work fine with uploads until then though
<sergiusens> Elleo: until then, meaning should work now? Because they currently don't
<Elleo> sergiusens: I mean using the webbrowser app and then going to gmail.com, instead of the gmail app
<sergiusens> oh! great then, thanks
<Elleo> since the webbrowser already has permission to use content hub
<sergiusens> Elleo: yeah, as it is unconfined :P
<Elleo> sergiusens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUvccWwyuLE <-- that's in the normal browser
<Elleo> yeah :)
<sergiusens> Elleo: right, I think I saw that video :-)
<sergiusens> ogra_: would be good to get this in soon https://code.launchpad.net/~michael-sheldon/webapps-core/file-upload/+merge/215312
<sergiusens> pinging you since you live in the same tz as dbarth :-)
<popey> sergiusens: i ran lp:~sergiusens/phablet-tools/flash_deprecation_warning and saw no warning, what triggers it?
<sergiusens> popey: you need to run ./phablet-flash
<popey> alan@deep-thought:/tmp/flash_deprecation_warning$ ./phablet-flash
<popey> usage: phablet-flash [-h]  ...
<popey> phablet-flash: error: too few arguments
<sergiusens> popey: well with ubuntu-system/cdimage-touch et.al.
<popey> i was expecting it to always crap out, no matter what parameters you pass
<sergiusens> popey: ah, you didn't make that clear ;-)
<sergiusens> popey: do you have a manta btw?
<sergiusens> rsalveti: hey, can you test https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/phablet-tools/mantashot/+merge/215767 ?
<rsalveti> sergiusens: sure
<popey> sergiusens: no
<rsalveti> sergiusens: why did we have this? is this related with the old way of taking a screenshot?
<sergiusens> rsalveti: seems that when mirscreencast was first out it used that rgba ordering; I recall from ogra's initial testing and was documented in the MR
<rsalveti> sergiusens: did you test this as well
<rsalveti> ?
<rsalveti> just to know before giving it a try :-)
<sergiusens> rsalveti: yes; on the image I had and on latest
<rsalveti> have to charge my manta
<sergiusens> rsalveti: look at 241.1.3 "Special casing manta" (bzr log phablet-screenshot)
<sergiusens> hmmm looking at that diff I may just revert the change :-P
<sergiusens> on second though; I'll leave it in case we add a new device to this list that needs this
<rsalveti> right
<sergiusens> rsalveti: here's another one while manta charges :-) https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/phablet-tools/shotspaces/+merge/215771
<rsalveti> sergiusens: sure
<rsalveti> sergiusens: happroved
<sergiusens> rsalveti: one more https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/phablet-tools/package_install/+merge/215777
<sergiusens> has manta charged btw?
#ubuntu-touch 2014-04-15
<dholbach> good morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy One Day Without Shoes Day! :-D
<diwic> good morning, is it possible to use perf on the phone? (E: Package 'linux-tools' has no installation candidate)
<diwic> it's the nexus 4 if that matters
<RAOF> diwic: Looks like the answer is ânoâ; we've got builds of linux-tools for lots of the devices, but not for mako?
<diwic> RAOF, so it seems, but just asking in case I'm missing something
<diwic> there is one for "goldfish" but not sure what that is
<diwic> probably not Nexus 4
<RAOF> Goldfish is the emulator
<diwic> aha
<ev> ogra_: the .upload file should be created by whoopsie-upload-all. The .uploaded file indicates that it's been successfully uploaded. Perhaps the upstart job that fires off whoopsie-upload-all isn't working?
<ogra_> ev, hmm
<ogra_> ev, how is that called ?
<ogra_> all i have is /etc/init/whoopsie.conf
<ogra_> root@ubuntu-phablet:~# initctl status whoopsie
<ogra_> whoopsie start/running, process 1625
<ogra_> and that one started just fine it seems
<ogra_> ah, in apport-noui
<ogra_> no upstart logs ...
<bian-xie> please anyone can give a brief introduction about Ubuntu Touch Camera architecture
<bian-xie> I mean how the camera-app connected with Android mediaserver running in the lxc container
<davmor2> Morning all
<sergiusens> ogra_: hey, can you take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/phablet-tools/mantashot/+merge/215767 ?
<sergiusens> ogra_: going to add phablet-screenshot to the mir testplan ;-)
<didrocks> sergiusens: you have been broken?
<sergiusens> didrocks: phablet-screenshot doesn't work on manta due to the coloring being changed
<sergiusens> didrocks: used to be bgra for manta and now it's the same as all others: rgba
<didrocks> ok, some kind of good enhancement then :)
<ogra_> sergiusens, oh, when did that change
<nik90> hey I did a system update and it is removing quite a bit of ubuntu touch related packages https://i.imgur.com/nfOGXN1.png
<nik90> does anyone else see this?
<sergiusens> ogra_: don't know; saw a bug related to manta failing on screenshots from cwayne (and although a bit different) failed
<sergiusens> ogra_: anyways, I added phablet-screenshot to the mir testplan, mind reviewing?
<ogra_> where is it ?
<ogra_> (change approved btw)
<sergiusens> ogra_: the test plan?
<ogra_> well, wasnt that what you wanted me to review ?
<sergiusens> ogra_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Process/Merges/TestPlans/Mir
<sergiusens> ogra_: no, I wanted you to review the manta change which you already have :-)
<sergiusens> ogra_: ah, you should test as well :-P
<ogra_> heh, ok
<sergiusens> rsalveti: https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/goget-ubuntu-touch/emulator_channel/+merge/215860
<Laney> mpt: bug #1289470> We keep the two sliders in system-settings?
<ubot5> bug 1289470 in indicator-power (Ubuntu) "The phone has three brightness sliders" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1289470
<mpt> Laney, yes
<Laney> okay
<mpt> (thatâs why the u-s-s bit is still assigned to me)
<Laney> Fairy nuff
<rickspencer3> popey, I would like to log a bug against Unity 8 on my phone, but it's not a crash, can I use apport-cli in some way to do that?
<rickspencer3> popey, nm, I just found this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/TouchTesting
<rickspencer3> looks like I can use ubuntu-bug and adb
<popey> rickspencer3: you can just ubuntu-bug /var/crash/foo.crash, yes.
<popey> i have had mixed success with that
<rickspencer3> popey, ok
<rickspencer3> there's no crash file, but I'm giving it a try
<trex_> hello everyone, perhaps a stupid question, but i was wondering, where can i find the most recent stable version of ubuntu mobile?
<trex_> am currently running     ubuntu-device-flash --channel=saucy --revision=99
<pmcgowan> trex_, the latest trusty images are in the devel channel, currently 294
<trex_> thanks pmcgowan
<pmcgowan> trex_, that channel has tested and promoted images (devel same as trusty) whereas the bleeding edge is on trusty-proposed and that can break
<trex_> pmcgowan, in terminal, i could just run adb shell system-image-cli --channel trusty -b 294
<pmcgowan> trex_, you can use ubuntu-device-flash, not sure if you need to do a bootstrap to move from stable
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, ^^
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: trex_ no, not needed, just ubuntu-device-flash --channel devel with the device connected
<trex_> got it thanks
<trex_> so
<sergiusens> stable is going to be promoted to trusty soon though
<trex_>     ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel-294?
<pmcgowan> trex_, no need for 294
<sergiusens> trex_: no, exactly as  typed; whats with adding the revision/version number?
<trex_> got it
<trex_> thanks
<trex_> was on saucy (above), wifi is still down on it, switching to trusty as recommended..thanks
<mterry> kgunn, the autopilot3 tests failed where the py2 ones didn't?  That's odd
<kgunn> mterry: yeah...something about no module named "autopilot.vis"
<mterry> That doesn't seem related to my change at least...
<mterry> kgunn, install python3-autopilot-vis
<kgunn> mterry: man i feel dumb...i thot i had
<kgunn> mterry: all happy now
<kgunn> mterry: ...it was late
<mterry> kgunn, :)
<kgunn> mterry: i'll run the phone test now too...
<kgunn> if that helps save you a cycle or 2
<mterry> kgunn, OK thanks.   I can run something too.  Is that all of the test pieces?  (i.e. are we running all the dependent component tests?)
<kgunn> mterry: i was going to run the entire AP suite....
<kgunn> per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Process/Merges/TestPlan/autopilot
<kgunn> which thomi says takes ~4 hrs
<mterry> kgunn, just the autopilot tests for the autopilot project do or are you running all autopilot tests for Touch?
<kgunn> mterry: all tests for touch
<kgunn> its effectively the smoke test
<mterry> I see
<mterry> kgunn, OK, well if I can offload some of that, let me know
<kgunn> mterry: you might want to do some exploratory testing....
<kgunn> i suppose technically...the untiy8 test https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Process/Merges/TestPlans/Unity8
<kgunn> (the manual stuff)
<mterry> kgunn, sure.  (Also, we released Mir 0.1.8?  nice)
<kgunn> mterry: yes
<mterry> kgunn, cool, that means we can simplify the split silo
<mardy> bfiller: hi! Are you taking care of landing the "app-access2" branch of u-s-s-o-a?
<bfiller> mardy: yes, but probably will not do that until after 14.04. still trying to get syncing working fine
<mardy> bfiller: that's fine, I just wanted to know if you were on it
<bfiller> mardy: yup, we did test it and it works fine
<mterry> doanac, you mentioned wondering what to do about unlock_screen.py in ubuntu-test-cases.  The new unlock-device script is a wholesale replacement for it.  No need to convert it, just switch to using unlock-device instead
<mterry> doanac, oh whoops, you said "run-autopilot-tests.sh" not unlock_screen.py
<doanac> mterry: correct. its not a 1-to-1 mapping with the new way it works
<mterry> doanac, how come those scripts can rely on /home/phablet/bin/unlock_screen.sh being there?  What puts that in place?
<doanac> mterry: we put it there when we provision a device (our scripts/provision.sh)
<cwayne> bfiller: hey, any chance we can get this reviewed (it'll fix address-book-app tests for the touch_custom suite) https://code.launchpad.net/~cwayne18/address-book-app/autopilot-upstart/+merge/212747
<bfiller> cwayne: sure, looks like it's failing in CI though. can you try and get that resolved first?
<rickspencer3> popey, sorry to bug you for this, but I think you helped me last time ... I'm looking for the script for getting screenshots of a phone or tablet
<rickspencer3> I think ogra_ wrote it, maybe/
<rickspencer3> ?
<ogra_> phablet-screenshot
<popey> what he said
<ogra_> actually i'm pondering to write an app for that over easter ... lets see if i'm bored enough
<popey> to do it on the device?
<ogra_> yeah
<popey> good luck â»
<ogra_> heh
<rickspencer3> jeez, I already had it installed
 * rickspencer3 dopes slap self
<dobey> dpm: hey, when should we expect that e-mail you said you were going to send to ubuntu-phone about scopes i18n?
<dpm> dobey, today in the next 30 mins, sorry for the delay!
<dobey> dpm: ok, thanks :)
<jose> didrocks: ping
<didrocks> jose: pong
<cwayne> bfiller: trying to look into it, but can't seem to get any of the logs or do a rebuild
<sergiusens> ogra_: rsalveti did you get a chance to test https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/phablet-tools/mantashot/+merge/215767 ?
<ogra_> not yet
<ogra_> i need to upgrade my manta forst
<ogra_> *first
<mterry> doanac, OK so I have lp:~mterry/ubuntu-test-cases/touch-unlock-device -- what's the best way to test that my changes work?  Just do the stuff in README-cli.rst?
<rsalveti> sergiusens: not yet, flashing
<rsalveti> sergiusens: was updating bug 1284612
<ubot5> bug 1284612 in phablet-tools (Ubuntu) "phablet-config writable-image -p foobar doesn't apt-get update" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284612
<sergiusens> rsalveti: ah, I got a needs fixing and will just add a user switch for that one (--update) although it is in general bad practice
<rsalveti> sergiusens: it is, it's fine to update by default
<rsalveti> our infra is broken
<sergiusens> rsalveti: well asac and plars will kill me if I do that :-P
<rsalveti> if we really wanted to force a specific version, we should declare that when installing packages by hand
<sergiusens> makes sense
<sergiusens> but I might still get killed :-P
<rsalveti> right :-)
<plars> kill you, no...
<dpm> dobey, first e-mail for scopes sent. The one for click scope translations to follow later on today, but that'll take me a bit more, as I want to dig a bit deeper into the mapping of Name/Description in .desktop/manifest/store
<dobey> dpm: ok
<dobey> dpm: thanks
<rsalveti> sergiusens: the emulator-channel one is also approved
<dpm> np
<plars> sergiusens, rsalveti: From what I see, it looks like we still have about 10 tests that require installation of -autopilot packages
<popey> olli_: are you on amd64 on desktop or i386?
<rsalveti> plars: right, and why update would be a problem in there?
<rsalveti> would the newer packages be available via a silo or something?
<rsalveti> oh, during the smoke testing I believe
<plars> friends, mediaplayer, webbrowser, url-dispatcher-tools (for unity8), dialer-app, messaging-app, address-book-app, ubuntuuitoolkit, ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts, and ubuntu-system-settings
<ogra_> rsalveti, well, i was suggesting to use lplib for that apt upgrade issue ... but we need to kind of make sure the local dependency resolution hooks into that since we cant use the archive one
<olli_> popey, Linux minime 3.13.0-24-generic #46-Ubuntu SMP Thu Apr 10 19:11:08 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<rsalveti> right, we're just lucky
<sergiusens> rsalveti: are you implying that train landings can't happen until the image is tested? :-)
<ogra_> rsalveti, well, we'Re screwed if we try to test on an image that was promoted two weeks ago
<rsalveti> if we really want to install additional packages that would match the image id, we should sync that somewhere else
<sergiusens> I know that the way it is, running update potentially makes you test the wrong thing
<rsalveti> or make it pre-installed by default
<sergiusens> I'm all for preinstalling these autopilots
<ogra_> rsalveti, but we have all info
<ogra_> it is on the device
<popey> olli_: trying to parse your spreadsheet
<sergiusens> rsalveti: exactly; we talked about this in January :-)
<plars> rsalveti: for instance, we have an image with version of something one of those depends on, and we install the updated version from the archive, the dependency can force install of something else that we don't want
<rsalveti> plars: right, but how can we fix this?
<plars> rsalveti: the recommendation in the past was always "don't ever run apt-get update"
<rsalveti> either we cache the packages (at the time we create the image), or we have them pre-installed
<rsalveti> plars: but that's not an ideal fix :-)
<ogra_> rsalveti, fish the dependency info out of the local apt db ... download the debs with lplib ... dpkg -i them
<plars> rsalveti: agreed
<rsalveti> plars: as we're just lucky that the archive will still have the packages around because we're testing a fresh image
<plars> rsalveti: the longer term solution is to move away from packages for autopilot tests
<rsalveti> ogra_: right, from a cache
<ogra_> what cache ?
<olli_> popey, what's the problem
<ogra_> we have a package db from the moment the image was built
<rsalveti> ogra_: you need to download it from somewhere valid, could be launchpad as you suggested
<sergiusens> rsalveti: well this also brings in the problem that you can't realy rerun tests on older images unless it's a click ;-)
<ogra_> so from there we get all info ... version, deps etc
<ogra_> lp lib pulls them for us from launchpad
<asac> rsalveti: wen dont want to upgrade packages until we have a different solution
<ogra_> and we just dpkg -i them
<popey> olli_: trying to figure out what needs patching and what doesnt
<rsalveti> asac: that I get
<popey> olli_: and the impact
<rsalveti> but we should also work to fix our infra
<asac> rsalveti: we are parallelizing landing: e.g. upload new versions right after the image is produced etc.
<asac> rsalveti: right
<ogra_> hwo do you want to fix that ?
<olli_> popey, I filed those bugs for that
<asac> my idea was to backup the Packages file
<rsalveti> ogra_: you suggested a valid solution
<sergiusens> asac: well making the image writable is also bad; that needs fixing too
<ogra_> you would have to have an archive snapshot after each package change
<asac> used to produce the image, and then have a tool that maps that to librarians taht we can then feed into the test run
<asac> as the packages file :)
<ogra_> rsalveti, ah, i thought you mean on the archive
<popey> olli_: right, the bug explains the problem but not the impact of changing
<olli_> popey, want to jump on a HO real quick
<asac> i think that would be the right solution; everything else feels pretty hacki
<popey> olli_: ya
<ogra_> asac, thats hacky too
<olli_> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/olli
<ogra_> :)
<asac> not sue
<asac> its snapshooting
<ogra_> no
<rsalveti> if we get the packages from lp and dpkg -i them, we're fine
<ogra_> snapshooting would mean to actually create an archive snapshot
<asac> sergiusens: well, if you want to change image you need to make it writable; what we should do is really make it read-only afterwards and ensure that we really only change things that we want to change
<rsalveti> as lp keeps everything in there
<ogra_> right
<popey> olli_: balls, hangouts broken
<olli_> ah, you dist-upgraded
<olli_> heh
<ogra_> all solutions to this are hacky ... so it doesnt matter which we pick really
<rsalveti> popey: kill every chrome process you have
<rickspencer3> *cough*
<ogra_> the only clean solution would be real snapshots
<popey> ugh
<sergiusens> asac: I sort of solved it with click so that you don't need to make it writable at all; don't know why the same stuff can't be done with the other stuff
<ogra_> but thats something we cant afford
<rsalveti> or having everything pre-installed
<asac> ogra_: not sure what is different?
<rsalveti> everything we care to be tested
<asac> rsalveti: manually cofing magic around lp and dpkg -i will over time be apt :_)
<asac> e.g. if its more ciomplex you need dependency resolution etc.
<rsalveti> asac: yup :-)
<sergiusens> asac: you can test any click package on any image (devel|devel-proposed) without making it writable and without altering the image
<ogra_> asac, it will use apt for getting all its info
<asac> ogra_: then why not just make apt do the right thing?
<ogra_> it will replace the download and install parts of apt
<rsalveti> asac: can we snapshot the archive?
<asac> no
<ogra_> asac, because we cant ?
<asac> we can snapshot the packages file
<asac> and be smart about finding them in lop
<asac> we could write a proxy
<ogra_> the onyl way to make apt do the right thing is an archive snapshot
<asac> that resolves things super smart :)
<rsalveti> but then we need to use lp
<asac> hehe
<sergiusens> the general solution is to not use debs for testing; then you don't need all this mega infra around it
<rsalveti> ogra_: yeah
<popey> olli_: ok, there
<ogra_> asac, why do you want to snapshot the package file
<asac> rsalveti: sure. but still saying that keeping the packages file around is a first step
<ogra_> asac, you have that snapshot on disk
<sergiusens> asac even with this solution, how do you test a devel image?
<asac> because you will have to remember exatly what package versions were available at the time of image production
<ogra_> all you need is grep-dctl to get the info you want
<asac> have to go on a call :)
<rsalveti> can't we create a custom tarball with every package we need?
<rsalveti> like we do for custom channels?
<ogra_> then have lplib pull the debs and dpkg -i them
<asac> rsalveti: we dont know which packages we might need
<asac> do we?
<rsalveti> that would deploy the packages somewhere in the image?
<doanac> mterry: you can probably test it by running something like: ./scripts/run-smoke -a friends_app
<rsalveti> asac: well, we could maintain a list (and deps)
<rsalveti> as we're installing them anyway
<ogra_> fun
<ogra_> and if some package changes dependencies you are screwed
<ogra_> somewhere low level ... totally unrelated to what you need
<rsalveti> as long we also download the dependencies, we're fine
<mterry> doanac, I also assume theses branches need updating?  https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-ci-engineering/jenkins-launchpad-plugin
<ogra_> so effectively you have an archive snapshot :P
<ogra_> in a tarball
<rsalveti> right, but not the entire archive
<rsalveti> just for the things we need/use
<ogra_> which might be gigantic
<rsalveti> I like the lp idea, but I wanted something that could also be off-line
<ogra_> how do you knwo what you might want to use next week ?
<ogra_> i dont think that flies
<doanac> mterry: probably should check with fginther about those branches. I think they are otto and run on x86 so maybe not
<rsalveti> well, we already know what needs to be installed anyway, right?
<rsalveti> as we're installing them today
<ogra_> not if i.e. a dep changed
<rsalveti> we just calculate that dynamically
<rsalveti> all we need is the list of packages we care to install
<sergiusens> rsalveti: ogra_ fwiw, for readonly testing I use lp to pull in some extra deps (but it's tight; I don't have dependency resolution)
<ogra_> well, i prefer using lplib and the local packages file
<fginther> mterry, those branches do not need updating, that's the old test runner which is being obsoleted
<ogra_> that gives you all the archive if you need it
<sergiusens> alternatively you can apt-get download *-autopilot and cache that with ogra stats :-P
<ogra_> not just a predefined subset
<rsalveti> sergiusens: that's kind of my proposal
<mterry> fginther, OK.  Is there any unlocking logic in phablet-tools?
<rsalveti> as long we also download the deps, we're fine
<ogra_> i dont like that limitation
<rsalveti> but ogra_ doesn't like it
<sergiusens> mterry: no; would be nice to have QA proposed their one solution to rule them all
<fginther> mterry, I'm 95% sure there isn't
<sergiusens> s/d//
<mterry> fginther, will double check
<ogra_> if we actually invest into such gross hackery we should make all packages aavilable that the Packages file refers to
<rsalveti> Saviq: do we have a bug for the 'Apps' scope title that is always centered when you boot the device?
<rsalveti> Saviq: that's really annoying :-)
<rsalveti> ogra_: right
<rsalveti> if the dep list is not big, I'd just pre-install everything
<rsalveti> but nobody likes that :-)
<ogra_> eeek
<ogra_> yeah
<rsalveti> it solves everything
<ogra_> you will have to wrangle with pmcgowan then :)
<rsalveti> and you can test without changing the image
<rsalveti> RO :-)
<Saviq> rsalveti, yeah, the bug is "we're getting rid of the tab-like header, let's not care about it" ;P
<Saviq> rsalveti, and it only happens on boot, no normal person will see it as often as we do
<rsalveti> lol, indeed
<pmcgowan> rsalveti, lets just install all of gnome too, and wine, and ....
<ogra_> wine !
<ogra_> the armhf version *can* run notepad
<rsalveti> pmcgowan: as I said, as long the deps are not that big
<rsalveti> and not many deps
<ogra_> so surely a valid candidate
<rsalveti> we can for sure simplify them
<ogra_> though we need wine-mir first
<rsalveti> otherwise we'll create a huge hackery all around and still test RW images
<pmcgowan> forget I said anything
<ogra_> (or would that be mir-wine ?)
<rsalveti> or move everything to click
<rsalveti> :-)
<pmcgowan> rsalveti, maybe we have two images, one with a testing seed?
<sergiusens> I guess no one likes the better solution of not using debs for testing
<pmcgowan> everything clic sounds better
<ogra_> pmcgowan, that would only test one the right way
<ogra_> and you cant buold two at the same time
<pmcgowan> same as we are doing really
<pmcgowan> ok
<rsalveti> we could just pre-install the core deps, and have everything else as click
<ogra_> would always be serialized ... with potentially added new packages in the second one
<ogra_> rsalveti, but thats what we do already
<rsalveti> that would be the best way I guess
<pmcgowan> ogra_, how about a separate fs partition or something
<rsalveti> ogra_: we don't, we're installing packages :-)
<pmcgowan> guess that wouldnt work
<rsalveti> ogra_: my idea is to still test with a RO image, and only using clicks for everything
<rsalveti> including autopilot tests
 * ogra_ liked the chroot in /home/phablet idea 
<asac> rsalveti: imo, its not a problem to install test packages and helper libraries as long as you dont do that no a running system
<asac> then you can RO it again
<ogra_> well
<rsalveti> asac: that's still a problem
<asac> without changing anything that is not in the packages
<ogra_> but the system *is* running
<rsalveti> as that package could bring an additional dependency
<asac> it doesnt need to be running
<rsalveti> and we're still not going to test the same thing
<asac> thats why i say :)
<sergiusens> asac: not really; look how the phonesim package broke the image testing
<asac> you can prep the tarball outside the phone
<ogra_> and it suddenly has the ability to write to places it couldnt wriote to before
<asac> and flash that
<sergiusens> it wasn't really the image going out you were testing
<ogra_> so it will use that
<rsalveti> the only way to test the same image, is to not change it :-)
<ogra_> right
<rsalveti> that's why using clicks works best
<sergiusens> but a newly created monster consisting of image + every test dep
<ogra_> so have a giant click with a chroot inside ;)
<rsalveti> sergiusens: do we know if it'll be that big?
<sergiusens> ogra_: I have a concept of pyinabox that sort of works
<ogra_> that installs to ~ and runs all tests
<rsalveti> if that big, we can just create a click with the dependencies
<asac> we can package our testsuites in click, yes.
<ogra_> sergiusens, you said the same thing in london ... finish it :)
<sergiusens> rsalveti: well problem is phonesim
<ogra_> code rules
<sergiusens> ogra_: I want QA to work on it
<rsalveti> then we solve that separately
<sergiusens> ogra_: I come up with the concept
<sergiusens> they should do it
<ogra_> right
<rsalveti> ogra_: yeah, I remember sergiusens said he had the solution as well :P
<sergiusens> rsalveti: and that I was going to let QA decide best
<rsalveti> QA?
<rsalveti> shouldn't be our CI team?
<ogra_> but instead they play with phones all day  ... finding our secretly hidden "easter eggs"
<sergiusens> rsalveti: when I did this, I wasn't considering phonesim requrements
<sergiusens> rsalveti: that just tramples on upstart
<sergiusens> so they should hold the domain
<rsalveti> right
<rsalveti> but nobody from the CI/QA team are here to discuss, so guess we're just wasting time :P
<rsalveti> as we're not going to implement anything anyway
<rsalveti> asac: should we have a meeting or something to better discuss this issue?
<ogra_> yeah
<sergiusens> rsalveti: QA should own it; foundations, phonedations and ci help
<ogra_> after release though
<rsalveti> sure, don't want a meeting for tomorrow :-)
<ogra_> nah, today :)
<ogra_> 4h
<sergiusens> let's have the meeting in brazil!
<ogra_> because we have so much time :)
<ogra_> sergiusens, ++
<rsalveti> hahah
<ogra_> hmpf
<ogra_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/pending/
<ogra_> when did we surpass 500M
<asac> lets not do it this week plase
<ogra_> damned ... you dont look for two weeks and the thing grew massively
<asac> i feel its a more fundamental thing we have to solve first
<rsalveti> sure
<ogra_> right
<asac> so CI team doesnt even need to be involved
<rsalveti> ogra_: language packs?
<asac> until foundations and phonedations come up with a solution
<ogra_> rsalveti, well, we didnt add any
<rsalveti> well, who will implement the solution?
<asac> how to build and install addons for testing and other stuff
<rsalveti> they need to be involved to see if it'd be feasible or not
<asac> rsalveti: once we know what needs to be done, we can get them involved
<sergiusens> autopilot in golang would also solve all the problems :-P
<ogra_> rsalveti, in fact xnox promised "huge amounts of space to be freed when we drop python2" ... that was when we were at 430M
<asac> rsalveti: but i would really like to see someoen coming up with something that isn't just another bandaid on top of a bandaid etc.
<asac> that won't come out of CI :)
<rsalveti> asac: yup
<sergiusens> ogra_: we should add a test to fail the image testing if it's too big
<rsalveti> sure
<asac> and including them will ensure we want to decide what to implement right away
<rsalveti> we need to help with that
<asac> we need to first solve the problem :)
<asac> work with the foundations guys
<ogra_> sergiusens, cdimage has something like that ... its just not switched on ... it doesnt fail, but puts a "OVERSIZED" file in place in the download dir
<asac> imo its a problem between phonedations and foundations
<asac> once the general concept is there, we can refine by including stakeholders like AP folks, CI etc.
<ogra_> asac, writing testing infra is a phone/foundations job ?
<asac> ogra_: no
<rsalveti> ogra_: not writing
<rsalveti> ogra_: finding a solution
<ogra_> hmm
<asac> ogra_: but figuring the solutionm to the wider problem of RO images
<ogra_> ok
<asac> and how to make them useful to developers, testing etc.
<rsalveti> as tjos os core to us as well
<rsalveti> *this
<asac> how to do packaging of addons that are not apps
<asac> etc.
<asac> i think rsalveti understands why i think it first needs to be solved on a concept level by phonedations/foundations
 * ogra_ thinks this is a bit on the edge to QA ... but i'm willing to accept it is also a *dations task 
<asac> QA?
<rsalveti> ogra_: at least until we can all agree at a single soltuion
<asac> qa has no business desinging our OS
<ogra_> asac, no, but testing it
<rsalveti> ogra_: we don't even agree to what needs to be done :-)
<asac> this is a fundamental OS oproblem right
<asac> now
<rsalveti> right
<asac> lets talk about this tomorrow in leads meeting
<popey> olli_: you'll need to speak to bfiller about notes app on bug 1288885
<ubot5> bug 1288885 in Ubuntu Terminal App "App cannot be started on clean Trusty desktop" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1288885
<bfiller> popey, olli_ : I have an mr for that
<rsalveti> sounds fine
 * ogra_ goes back to grumble about image oversizedness
<grepped> I am going to buy MOTO G, but I want to use Ubuntu-touch on it. Let me know if ubuntu-touch is available for it
<rsalveti> ogra_: it's indeed really big
<rsalveti> ogra_: 20140408 is already bad
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> i have no idea where that came from
<ogra_> we didnt do any mass-adding of packages or so
 * sergiusens goes for lunch
<mterry> doanac, fginther: OK, have a gander at https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/ubuntu-test-cases/touch-unlock-device/+merge/215911 when you have time
<doanac> mterry: ack. we won't be making any changes until after thursday, but I'll queue this up for testing this week
<mterry> doanac, reasonable  :)
<bfiller> popey: https://code.launchpad.net/~bfiller/notes-app/fix-exec-path/+merge/215914
<popey> bfiller: done.
<kyleN> Hey, I have a question about codenames. Specifically it seems to me that we use "flo" when we should use "razor" on the touch install instructions here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<kyleN> which makes the nexus 7 2013 wifi link incorrect and inconsistent the other target platforms.
<kyleN> I added a note below the Supported Devices table there yesterday and would like to clarify this now.
<kyleN> pmcgowan, do you know who I should direct this question to?
<pmcgowan> kyleN, ask rsalveti but if I recall a prior discussion flo is consistent
<kyleN> pmcgowan, if you look at the page and follow the link you will see the flo link is wrong
<rsalveti> flo is the real device name when building the image
<rsalveti> razor is the way google calls it
<pmcgowan> kyleN, I see yep
<pmcgowan> kyleN, you are correct for that use
<pmcgowan> kyleN, right so just fix the link and the naming
<kyleN> I understand flo is the driver code  name. this case is image restore code name. so 'razor' it shall be
<kyleN> ack
<rsalveti> right
<rickspencer3> is anyone else having trouble with system settings crashing when they try to run updates?
<mhall119> I've had it crash on several things
<asac> hmm
<rickspencer3> so, this is really bad
<rickspencer3> this means I can't update
<rickspencer3> (with the gui)
<asac> seb128: ^
<Laney> Do you have a crash file?
<seb128> hum, first time I read about that
<seb128> what Laney said
<rickspencer3> Laney, yes, I already apport-cli'd it
<rickspencer3> I can upload it by hand somewhere if you want
<mhall119> rickspencer3: close all other apps and then try launching it, that usually works for me
<asac> ogra_: how did your whoospie submission go?
<asac> could rickspencer3 use that?
<asac> mhall119: well, that's not a solution :)
<rickspencer3> no, it just crashes every single time I click on updates
<rickspencer3> Laney, seb128 do you guys want me to do something?
<rickspencer3> mhall119, are you able to click on Updates in system settings?
<seb128> rickspencer3, report the issue using whoopsie
<rickspencer3> seb128, so, I think I already did that
<rickspencer3> but, this seems quite serious
<rickspencer3> I can't update now
<Laney> is it https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/9a9a51201599dfbe82e30dfd944a00e2ffaa8bbb ?
<seb128> rickspencer3, do you have a link/url for the report?
<nerochiaro> artmello__: if you come up with anything on these lost mouse events, please let me know by email. thanks
<Laney> these don't have useful traces
<mhall119> rickspencer3: yes
<rickspencer3> mhall119, do you have automatic updates enabled, or disabled?
<mhall119> rickspencer3: it just finished downloading r296
<rickspencer3> for me, it's set to "Never"
<mhall119> rickspencer3: I have auto-download disabled
<rickspencer3> weird
<rickspencer3> I wonder if I am out of disk space or something
<seb128> rickspencer3, can you copy the .crash online somewhere/share it?
<rickspencer3> seb128, sure
<rickspencer3> seb128, which one?
<rickspencer3> -rw-r----- 1 phablet  whoopsie 4670471 Apr 15 12:51 _usr_bin_system-settings.32011.crash
<rickspencer3> -rw-rw-rw- 1 root     whoopsie       0 Apr 15 12:47 _usr_bin_system-settings.32011.upload
<rickspencer3> -rw------- 1 whoopsie whoopsie       0 Apr 15 12:47 _usr_bin_system-settings.32011.uploaded
<seb128> rickspencer3, the .crash :p
<ogra_> asac, didnt go so well, seems the daisy server has issues
<seb128> rickspencer3, e.g the only non 0 one
<kyleN> pmcgowan, rsalveti I updated/clarified the table & section
<ogra_> asac, but ev was looking into it
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> right
<cjwatson> sergiusens: can you give me a test case I can use to reproduce that "click chroot" thing with Qt5Qml/Qt5Quick?  the chroot seems to contain the necessary packages
<rickspencer3> seb128, I emailed it to you
<cjwatson> sergiusens: like a tar of your current directory when running http://paste.ubuntu.com/7251105/, or something
<rickspencer3> < 5 megs
<seb128> rickspencer3, thanks
<kyleN> pmcgowan, fyi I have been asked to move the install instructions to the dev portal. so this page will become a link to the portal and I'll refactor the text for clarity. release notes and similar will stay on the wik.
<pmcgowan> kyleN, not sure I am +1 on that
<pmcgowan> kyleN, installs are not just for devs
<kyleN> pmcgowan, then you need to talk to jono who asked me to do this.
<pmcgowan> kyleN, I could see simpler get the stable image instructions, but we should still have some
<kyleN> pmcgowan, actually, I have been writing up a clearer explanation of the whole thing, for example explaining channels with more clarity
<pmcgowan> kyleN, cool would be happy to review if you want
<seb128> Laney, rickspencer3: that crash is
<seb128> #0  0xaae69f76 in SignOn::Identity::createSession(QString const&) ()
<seb128>    from /usr/lib/libsignon-qt5.so.1
<seb128> #1  0xaaedfaee in UbuntuOne::Keyring::findToken() ()
<seb128>    from /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libubuntuoneauth-2.0.so.0
<seb128> #2  0xaaf074ec in UpdatePlugin::UpdateManager::checkUpdates() ()
<seb128>    from /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/ubuntu-system-settings/private/Ubuntu/SystemSettings/Update/libUbuntuUpdatePanel.so
<seb128> so ubuntuone/signon issue
<rickspencer3>  wow
<seb128> mardy, ^ is that known?
<rickspencer3> seb128, so I should try to relog into U1 and try again?
<asac> maybe somewhat extract the state of yhour U1 login?
<asac> before?
<seb128> rickspencer3, not sure, in any case it seems like a valid issue in their code
<asac> not sure what would help to figure what state that thing is in
<seb128> would be nice to have somebody knowing how to debug that to help before you wipe the state
<asac> right
<rickspencer3> ok, I'll chill out
<seb128> mardy would know but he might be eod at this time
<asac> rickspencer3: do you have two routes?
<asac> err two default routes?
<rickspencer3> asac, no
<asac> ok thought might have been triggered by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1307981
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1307981 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "[touch] randomly messed up routing with recent trusty images" [High,New]
<cyphermox> asac: no
<asac> cyphermox: ?
<rickspencer3> asac, ok
<rickspencer3> I bet that's what it is
<asac> cyphermox: sure that this cannot cause ubuntuone state get messed about online state?
<rickspencer3> I was logged onto my wrong access point
 * rickspencer3 tries with correct access point
<rickspencer3> still crashes
<asac> ok
<asac> well, wait for the experts to arrive
 * rickspencer3 tries tablet
<asac> mardy: dbarth: see the trace that seb128 has
<asac> above
<rickspencer3> works fine on my tablet, which only has the one working access point
<rickspencer3> seb128, app updates in Updates Pane looks nice!
<seb128> rickspencer3, thanks ;-)
<asac> rickspencer3: ok, so browsing etc. works well on your phone right now and it still crashes?
<rickspencer3> asac, correct
<ogra_> rickspencer3, yeah, it just "upgraded" my local dict webapp from 0.4 to 0.3 ...
<rickspencer3> the only symptom I seem to have is that the updates pane crashes
<rickspencer3> even Karma machine works :)
<seb128> rickspencer3, is the software-upgrade app working?
<rickspencer3> seb128, when I run Update Manager, it also crashes
<seb128> k
<rickspencer3> or at least that's what it looks like, it doesn't run in any case
<asac> if so, we can probably rule out bogus networking as the source.
<asac> next idea plz
<seb128> not surprising since the issue seems in the backend/u1 auth
<rickspencer3> man, this really makes me think we need to work on the robustness and testing for our system updates
<rickspencer3> we talked a lot about it after the last set of problems, but I'm not sure we ever designed the "bullet proof" version
<asac> i think i heard that before
 * ogra_ hugs mpt for revisiting bug 1296431
<ubot5> bug 1296431 in indicator-power (Ubuntu) "Phone doesn't alert user of critical power situations" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296431
<ogra_> this is really annoying
<rickspencer3> that's not true, it already you by turning off
<rickspencer3> what could go wrong?
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> "alerts you" by turning off
<ogra_> great :P
<ogra_> it alerts me three times a day :P
<ogra_> (which screams: we really need to improve power consumption next cycle)
<rickspencer3> ogra_, interesting
<rickspencer3> my phone easily lasts throughout a day
<rickspencer3> so long as I am not watching movies on it, etc...
<ogra_> in your pocket
<rickspencer3> ogra_, no, I use it for calls and texting and the browser and etc...
<rickspencer3> I use it a lot
<ogra_> mine is nearly constantly on during the work day
<dbarth> asac: which one?
<rickspencer3> mine is my only phone
<rickspencer3> so it's always on
<ogra_> i never do calls (apart from test calls) but use a ton of webapps
<dbarth> asac: ah ok, on it
<asac> 19:04 < seb128> Laney, rickspencer3: that crash is
<asac> 19:04 < seb128> #0  0xaae69f76 in SignOn::Identity::createSession(QString const&) ()
<asac> 19:04 < seb128>    from /usr/lib/libsignon-qt5.so.1
<asac> 19:04 < seb128> #1  0xaaedfaee in UbuntuOne::Keyring::findToken() ()
<asac> 19:04 < seb128>    from /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libubuntuoneauth-2.0.so.0
<asac> 19:04 < seb128> #2  0xaaf074ec in UpdatePlugin::UpdateManager::checkUpdates() ()
<ogra_> rickspencer3, i mean the screen is up all day on mine
<asac> 19:04 < seb128>    from /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/ubuntu-system-settings/private/Ubuntu/SystemSettings/Update/libUbuntuUpdatePanel.so
<asac> 19:04 < seb128> so ubuntuone/signon issue
<asac> 19:04 < rickspencer3>  wow
<asac> 19:05 < seb128> mardy, ^ is that known?
<asac> that one
<rickspencer3> ogra_, ah, yeah, that'll do it
<asac> dbarth: ok
<ogra_> (i dont do G+ on my PC for example)
<ogra_> and with oxide it can now cope with android :)
<dbarth> seb128: do you have an open bug for that one?
<dbarth> (or do you want me to open one)
<seb128> dbarth, not sure, rickspencer3 said he submitted it with apport but I can't find it
<seb128> well maybe it's not in launchpad, only e.u.c
<Laney> I was guessing that but I didn't find it there
<rickspencer3> I can just quickly make a bug
<Laney> seb128: you have it now so you can ubuntu-bug it
<rickspencer3> and upload the crash file
<dbarth> rickspencer3: if you have the crash file, yes, better
<Laney> ubuntu-bug <crash file> is a good way to file a bug given one of those
<dbarth> yup
<dbarth> rickspencer3: just ping me the bug and i'll prioritize with mardy
<ogra_> seb128, thats an issue with whoopsie (as i said above)
<ogra_> or rather with the server
<mhall119> alecu: Saviq: the "Apps >" tab header in the dash is always centered the first time I get to it, rather than left-aligned
<ogra_> seb128, ev started looking into it this morning
<Saviq> mhall119, it's going away
<Saviq> mhall119, in favour of the new app header
<Saviq> mhall119, and is a bug in UITK
<sergiusens> cjwatson: bzr branch lp:camera-app is enough for me to get that pastebin
<mhall119> any ETA on when new app header will land?
<rickspencer3> dbarth, is there a better way to do it than manually creating a bug and attaching the .crash file?
<dbarth> rickspencer3: ubuntu-bug like Laney reminded me
<dbarth> rickspencer3: works on your phone
<ogra_> rickspencer3, ubuntu-bug should do it for you
<ogra_> it will give you an URL you can click on
<rickspencer3> hmmm, I used apport-cli to report it last time, let me try that one
<mamenyaka> is there a 4.4.2 branch for ubuntu touch?
<rickspencer3> dbarth, ogra_ so I never got a lp bug out of it
<rickspencer3> not sure what I did wrong
<rickspencer3> for your yack shaving pleasure:
<rickspencer3> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7256465/
<ogra_> thats weird
<ogra_> mamenyaka, yes, look at phablet-ubuntu.com ... there are aosp branches ...
<ogra_> err
<mamenyaka> ogra_: hi!
<ogra_> phablet.ubuntu.com
<ogra_> there is also a wikipage somewhere afaik
<cjwatson> sergiusens: works for me
<mamenyaka> i looked, but do I need to manually check out the ones I need?
<ogra_> not sure, i rarely do that :)
<cjwatson> sergiusens: as in, no errors from run cmake -DCLICK_MODE=1 or run make
<sergiusens> cjwatson: hmmm, and you sudo click chroot -aarmhf -f ubuntu-sdk-14-04-dev1-papi create ?
<sergiusens> papi/qml
<dbarth> rickspencer3, ogra_: could be due to the the upstream package ref. in launchpad
<cjwatson> sergiusens: well, "sudo click chroot -a armhf -f ubuntu-sdk-14.04 create", but it should be equivalent
<dbarth> i'll create one real quick for you to upload the crasher
<sergiusens> cjwatson: let me try creating it like that
<cjwatson> sergiusens: they're just convenience aliases basically
<cjwatson> sergiusens: well, except that the alias is "ubuntu-sdk-14.04-papi-dev1" not "ubuntu-sdk-14-04-dev1-papi", but your paste matches the correct version
<sergiusens> cjwatson: so if you create it with the alias and run with the alias it will map to the same thing
<sergiusens> yeah, sorry, I'm always mixing that part
<sergiusens> but I get a key not found error and notice it quickly enough :-)
<cjwatson> sergiusens: the alias is mapped right at the start and never used directly otherwise
<sergiusens> I'm creating a new chroot now and waiting to see if this was a hiccup as ogra_ originally anticipated wrt to seeds
<ogra_> sergiusens, no, that was different
<mamenyaka> ogra_: is there anyone still working on the ports?
<ogra_> there was an autopkgtest failure of some sso componnent that confused the world
<sergiusens> if it works today and failed yesterday...
<sergiusens> mamenyaka: actively there's samsung s5 that I am aware of
<ogra_> right, that was fixed quickly yesterday
<sergiusens> meh
<sergiusens> nexus 5 I mean
<ogra_> haha
<ogra_> spread the rumours !
<dbarth> rickspencer3: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/signon/+bug/1308164
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1308164 in signon (Ubuntu) "Crash in /usr/lib/libsignon-qt5.so.1 when attempting a system update" [Undecided,New]
<mamenyaka> here's my main problem: i'm still on the phabet-trusty branch, but libhybris gives me build errors
<rickspencer3> dbarth, done
<dbarth> ty
<mhall119> where am I supposed to see app updates in ubuntu-system-settings?
<mamenyaka> and apparently it need some files which are only available in the newer branches
<ogra_> where you see image updates
<mhall119> ok, so there just aren't any right now
<ogra_> for me there was one ... "upgrading" one of my locally installed apps from 0.4 to 0.3
<mamenyaka> ubuntu/libhybris/compat/media/media_codec_layer.cpp:51:40: fatal error: gui/IGraphicBufferProducer.h: No such file or directory
<seb128> rickspencer3, dbarth: I set that bug to private, that's a dump of a process which deal with online credential, it could include private info
<rickspencer3> thanks seb128
<seb128> yw
<seb128> subscribed mardy / Laney to the bug, we can subscribe more people if needed
<mamenyaka> sergiusens: can you help me?
<cjwatson> ogra_: It wasn't an autopkgtest failure - it was a double-override that caused a package to go missing from the archive for a brief period
<sergiusens> mamenyaka: I think this should work phablet-dev-bootstrap --sources aosp --repo-branch phablet-4.2.2_r1 my_dir
<cjwatson> ogra_: It's certainly possible that that could have confused "click chroot create", though I haven't traced the dependencies
<sergiusens> dbarth: hey, Elleo had an MR for the webapps so we could upload content; care to apply it?
<mamenyaka> sergiusens: thanks, looks like its doing its job
<Elleo> sergiusens: from what I hear it's in the queue to be uploaded soon
<mamenyaka> is this still valid? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/AOSPBuild
<davmor2> Who would be the best person to talk to about the multiple call feature
<dbarth> sergiusens: it's applied
<dbarth> sergiusens: the apps should be in the store upload queue
<dbarth> seb128: +1
<sergiusens> cjwatson: just created from scratch and still seeing the issue; any quick thoughts on what it could be?
<sergiusens> dbarth: Elleo great!
<Laney> rickspencer3: do you have a file /home/phablet/.cache/upstart/application-legacy-ubuntu-system-settings-.log that you could attach?
<rickspencer3> I can try
<sergiusens> popey: can you check those webapps enqueued? I seem to have lost my happroval powers :-/
<popey> ya
<Laney> Just subscribed you so you can see it
<sergiusens> popey: thanks, it's a good happroval fwiw :) will allow content uploads :-)
<rickspencer3> Laney, done
<popey> sergiusens: you mean in the store?
<Laney> rickspencer3: Cheers, do you have a /home/phablet/.cache/upstart/application-legacy-ubuntu-system-settings-.log.1.gz file too?
<Laney> That didn't contain what I thought it might
<Laney> ("findToken(): Using Ubuntu One account" ...)
<popey> bueno what do we do with webapps which error with "found unusual policy groups: content_exchange" ?
<Laney> Anyway, gtg, just hoping to get information that mardy might find useful tomorrow
<Elleo> popey: sounds like the definition of "unusual" will need to change, more and more webapps are likely to have that policy as it's what allows them to do file uploads now the webapp container supports it
<sergiusens> popey: yea; approve in the store (the webapps) and those webapps will allow content uploads
<Elleo> the content_exchange policy allows for communication with content-hub
<sergiusens> popey: hmm, that might be an outdated policy check?
<sergiusens> jdstrand: ^^
<popey> sure, but strictly the fact is it's an "error" in the process, not a warning
<rickspencer3> Laney, done
<sergiusens> popey: I think you mistyped beuno :-)
<popey> oh, i did â»
<Laney> Ta
<beuno> :)
<beuno> popey, so that's in the review script
<popey> yes
<beuno> currently mostly owned by jdstrand and dholbach
<beuno> are you certain it's outdated?
<popey> i bzr pull every time I check an app
<popey> so I know I'm running latest click-reviewers-tools
<beuno> popey, I understand, I guess I'm asking if you know for sure the script is wrong  :)
<popey> well, I'm not suggesting it's wrong
<popey> I'm saying I am getting an error when trying to accept an app which the guys here want approved
<popey> and I will block that unless someone tells me otherwise
<beuno> sure
<beuno> that's what the scripts are for!
<popey> Very soon I expect to be replaced by a small shell script
<beuno> looks like I haven't added any value to this conversation
<popey> well dholbach is eod
<Elleo> beuno: for context, this is in relation to recent features added to the webbrowser/webapp-container which allow for file uploads via content-hub
<popey> so we need jdstrand
<beuno> right
<Elleo> so until friday that policy probably made perfect sense, since there was no reason for a webapp to be talking to content-hub
<beuno> jdstrand owns new policies
<jdstrand> ?
<Elleo> but now it's required for anything wanting to use the file upload features
<popey> jdstrand: we have new webapps in the store which require content_exchange policy group, but the click-reviewer-tools tag it as "unusual" and error.
<jdstrand> popey: ok, can you file a bug. I have a few of things accumulated to fix
<jdstrand> s/of//
<Elleo> presumably it's just for webapps that it considers content_exchange unusual?
<Elleo> since the gallery click package would use that too
<jdstrand> it would just be webapps
<davmor2> pmcgowan: Hey who would be the best person to talk to about the multi call feature in UT?
<pmcgowan> davmor2, boiko and bfiller_afk
<davmor2> pmcgowan: thanks
<popey> jdstrand: https://bugs.launchpad.net/click-reviewers-tools/+bug/1308184
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1308184 in Canonical Click Reviewers tools "found unusual policy groups: content_exchange" [Undecided,New]
<davmor2> boiko, bfiller_afk: with the new multicall feature I can connect to two calls but merging doesn't happen, I wanted to double check if there is a service that I might need to activate from my provider before I dig into it and file a bug
<pmcgowan> popey, beuno really need a way to log bugs on store apps
<jdstrand> popey: thanks!
<popey> pmcgowan: such as?
<pmcgowan> popey, every new app I download I am finding issues, and rather than email the devs, would be nice to have a project or something
<pmcgowan> popey, like rad.io back doesnt work
<pmcgowan> and the one with riddling the other day
<popey> i think thats up to each dev, surely?
<pmcgowan> and the two broken webapps
<Elleo> centralised bug reporting for all apps on the platform would be pretty cool
<Elleo> at least as an option for devs to enable
<pmcgowan> right
<Elleo> not much use if they're just going to ignore it
<Elleo> but I know I'd much rather have had some decent bug tracking for lots of small projects on meego without having to setup lots of infrastructure myself
<pmcgowan> Elleo, more bugs could drop their ratings
<Elleo> pmcgowan: that could be risky, lots of users don't know the difference between a bug and a feature request
<pmcgowan> true
<Elleo> pmcgowan: plus you'd be insentivising devs to close bugs fraudulently
<pmcgowan> my concern right now is the last 4 apps I got were all broken in some way
<Elleo> a clear division between reviews and bug reports is pretty essential in my view
<pmcgowan> and I am getting them sort of at random
<boiko> davmor2: probably you need to activate that indeed
<Elleo> I got pretty fed up of getting "bug reports" via reviews on nokia apps, that you then have no way to respond to/contact the person
<pmcgowan> Elleo, so you think a built in kindof bug reporter direct to the dev?
<davmor2> boiko: on the plus side the the call and hold multicall works well ;)
<Elleo> pmcgowan: I think a couple of options would be best, reporting to launchpad or reporting via email or something
<Elleo> to the user it could look identical
<pmcgowan> sure
<Elleo> things can get lost of they're just emailing stuff, so launchpad tracking would be the best option
<Elleo> I'm just not sure I'd trust all devs to bother with it
<pmcgowan> not sure
<beuno> pmcgowan, I think R&R will do that
<boiko> davmor2: \o/
<beuno> if Launchpad wasn't crazy to integrate with, we could somehow use that
<Elleo> R&R?
<pmcgowan> beuno, that would be best
<beuno> Ratings & Reviews
<Elleo> beuno: I'm hoping that'd become Rating & Reviews & Bugs then ;)
<Elleo> rather than just lumping bugs into Reviews, which gets very annoying from a dev's perspective
<beuno> well
<Elleo> although I'm guessing the Ubuntu review system will end up more comprehensive than Nokia's was, so that might not be as much of a pain
<beuno> I don't think we should write *another* bug tracker
<Elleo> but you need a clear way to interogate the reporter/review for further information
<Elleo> because in a review scenario hardly anyone puts adequate detail
<Elleo> since it's just a review they'll just say "$X doesn't work"
<Elleo> Nokia's system was especially annoying in that regard because it gave no means at all of contacting the reviewer or replying to reviews
<Elleo> so I have "reviews" (bug reports) that no one else can reproduce, but which I can't get any useful info to debug
<beuno> Elleo, right
<beuno> there's a challenge there to solve elegantly
<Elleo> yeah, that might indicate that it's more natural for the user for them to communicate a bug via a review
<popey> jdstrand: should I wait for an update tonight or leave these in the queue till tomorrow?
<jdstrand> popey: feel free to accept them and reference the bug. content_exchange is fine for webapps now
<Elleo> so perhaps just some way of communicating with the user about it and marking it as fixed might be enough
<beuno> Elleo, agreed
<beuno> or at least, a good start
<Elleo> yeah
<jdstrand> popey: does that work ok?
<popey> jdstrand: thats find given you said it â»
<jdstrand> cool :)
<cjwatson> sergiusens: sorry, not sure I have a clue.  Check inside the chroot whether dpkg -S says those files are there
<popey> jdstrand: also camera is apparently unusual?
<popey> is that an acceptable policy group name?
<popey> (twitter webapp wants it)
<jdstrand> popey: I was going to review them all when I do it. camera shouldn't be unusual any more either
<popey> ok
<jdstrand> (oxide prompts when it is in use, so nothing scary there)
<popey> sergiusens: done
<Elleo> popey: thanks :)
<mardy> Laney: do you know how to make debugging symbols available to errors.ubuntu.com?
<popey> np Elleo
<Laney> mardy: nein, but you can work with that core dump
<sergiusens> beuno: pmcgowan: popey let me trace you back to a conversation from august http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21857/foundations-1308-click-error-reporting/ " and one of the agreements (I'm not fond of it still), was to use the store ratings for bugs
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, I dont see that in the notes, and assume you mean reviews not ratings per se
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: look at the notes! Â * Do we want to support interactive bug reporting? * Evan takes the con position:  wants to move away from launchpad for bug reporting in general, and  thinks the arguments for doing this apply even more than usual to phone  users vs. desktop users  * If we need more info out of  crashes, handle on the server side with server-side hooks to provide  code to be executed on the client for a particular crash
<famonid> It seems some html5 functionality is broken (at least for me)... http://gauth.apps.gbraad.nl/ used to work on image ~150 but it is broken now
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, sure read that, says not launchpad, but not clear what we will do to me
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: the use the store is hidden in the video though
<famonid> It would be great if so could confirm my issue
<pmcgowan> and thats all crash reporting, symbols stuff
<mardy> Laney: OK, I'll look into that tomorrow, maybe I'll ping you for assistance :-)
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, well, ok
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, probably how everyone else does it
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: yeah, you need to look at the video; but if you had ratings, you'd already have a direct way to rate an app
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: there are a bunch that just don't work
<sergiusens> and would be good to know from the get go
 * sergiusens speaks as a user now
<pmcgowan> indeed
<dobey> pmcgowan: the suggestion was, that like most other "app stores," the app authors themselves don't want to set up some project management infrascture on lp (or anywhere else that's not their own thing), and users are more likely to just report issues in reviews anyway, so just have that and let devs filter it
<famonid> Can someone please test the html5 authenticator from gbraad on a current image with the built in browser? It does not work for me anymore... http://gauth.apps.gbraad.nl/ If I know it does work on other devices, I am sure that the fault is at my side.
<pmcgowan> dobey, makes sense
<dobey> it's sort of a poor compromise, but keeping people from just writing junk in reviews is going to be hard anyway
<dobey> and finding a solution that is really nice, is also very hard
<ogra_> but worth the effort in the end ;)
<dobey> a matter of argument :)
<ogra_> no, a matter of time and manpower ;)
<pmcgowan> ooo app updates in settings!
<ogra_> pfft
 * ogra_ still only got one "downdate"
<dobey> ogra_: developing it is, yes; but whether that time and manpower was worth it in the end, is a matter of argument :)
<ogra_> dobey, if people chose ubuntu phones because that feature is cool (among others) it will have been worth it
<dobey> ogra_: if developers choose not to support ubuntu because we force that feature on them, maybe it wasn't worth it, though.
<dobey> it's a thin line :)
<ogra_> no, the feature needs to be sexy for both sides indeed
<dobey> every feature can't be balanced on a fence ;)
<tedg> jdstrand, Added easyprof to bug 1301400 for adding the path to the sdk confinement. Is that the best way to mark that?
<ubot5> bug 1301400 in Unity 8 "Need to provide an api for setting launcher counters" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301400
<jdstrand> tedg: every app should have that dbus access, similar to like we do with the hud?
<tedg> jdstrand, yeah, it just allows it to set the number if it's on the launcher.
<tedg> Will do progress in the future as well
<jdstrand> tedg: is the access ready to be added now or still being defined?
<tedg> jdstrand, I proposed the MR. I think it's perfect, but you might wait on a review :-)
<tedg> jdstrand, To be clear, there's no rush. The first use case is system settings which is unconfined.
<jdstrand> so... dbus bus=session path=/com/canonical/unity/launcher/${DBUS_APP_PKGNAME} interface=com.canonical.unity.Launcher.Item method=count{,Visible},
<jdstrand> tedg: or can we just skip interface and method?
<dpm> dobey, ok, app metadata internationalization mail sent to ubuntu-phone too
<dobey> dpm: cool, thanks
<tedg> jdstrand, No, interface is fd.o properties. And it's not PKGNAME because it's the full app id. There could be an icon for each app.
<jdstrand> dbus bus=session path=/com/canonical/unity/launcher/${DBUS_APP_ID}, ?
<tedg> jdstrand, Yeah
<jdstrand> @{APP_ID_DBUS}
<jdstrand> tedg: right, ok. I'll add that note to the bug and will add it to the next upload
<tedg> jdstrand, Cool, thanks!
<jdstrand> np
<rickspencer3> mardy, wrt bug #1308164
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 1308164 could not be found
<rickspencer3> shall I go ahead and enable the U1 account and try again?
<mhall119> app updates on ubuntu-system-settings doesn't wrap the app icon in UbuntuShape, is this by design?
<ajalkane> What's the correct procedure for cross-compiling Ubuntu touch application for ARM? The instructions I have seem to build executables for x86 when I build on x86
<popey> ajalkane: cross-compiling just landed in qtc as I understand it from dpm earlier
<pmcgowan> you make an arm chroot and target the build there
<dpm> it landed a while ago
<dpm> but the UX is much better now
<pmcgowan> dpm, did we update docs yet?
<ajalkane> any learn-it-in-minute-for-dummies instructions for command-line compilation?
<dpm> pmcgowan, not that I know
<popey> dpm: heh, see my question from earlier for ajalkane â»
<dpm> ajalkane, no need to do it from the command line, you can open the CMakeLists.txt file, and Qt Creator will ask you which build targets you want. If you select the 14.04 click build,
<ajalkane> dpm: okay thanks... so I guess apt-get dist-upgrade is needed as I think I have few weeks old version
<dpm> then you can choose it from the kits menu right above the big green "Play" button
<dpm> once you've done that, then when you do a build using Ctrl+B or the button, it will build it in the arm chroot
<ajalkane> Okay that's nice... I'm still living in the ancient past where click packages did not build correctly in QTC :)
<dpm> :-)
<dpm> if you need any extra dependencies for the build, Tools > Options > Ubuntu > Click > Maintain and install them from there
<ajalkane> Ok great, thanks
<dpm> ajalkane, let me know if you've got any questions. Did you see my comments on some of your MPs? I think they are already merged, but are listed as pending. It'd be great if you could confirm that and mark them as merged if that's the case - thanks!
<ajalkane> dpm: sure thing, I saw the mails but when I looked at the to be merged list I didn't see them. I'll take a closer look, but anyway those oldies are definitely merged.
<dpm> ajalkane, ok, cool, thanks! Development should also be easier now that the code for the app and the plugin is all in the same branch, and Qt Creator can build the whole thing together :)
<ajalkane> Alright, I will try building with QTC the needed click package during this week.
<popey> mhall119: i think that's a bug in ubuntu-system-settings..
#ubuntu-touch 2014-04-16
<alex___> hall
<alex___> hallo
<alex___> whadd
<echoe> is there any way to turn the phone off within the software?
<dholbach> good morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Save The Elephant Day! :-D
<Aki-Thinkpad> JamesTait, Save the elephant day?
 * JamesTait detects the merest hint of an echo.
<Aki-Thinkpad> JamesTait, goto #postgres; they might be interested :P
<sqwaw> strange issue
<sqwaw> wifi only has connect to known networks
<sqwaw> can't seem to join any
<sqwaw> ifconfig only shows loopback
<sqwaw> aaaand nevermind, reflash and it's working :/
<pstolowski> Saviq: hi! one more advice needed.. what was the upgrade path you used for my phone in london? I flashed an old image (~100) with ubuntu-device-flash, then system-image-cli --channel=devel-proposed, but that gets stuck on the 'google' bootsplash
<ogra_> pstolowski, did you ever make that image writable  ?
<pstolowski> ogra_: i didn't
<ogra_> do you have adb
<Saviq> pstolowski, you're in good hands :)
<pstolowski> ogra_: oh, wait, I did long time ago..
<pstolowski> ogra_: sure i've
<ogra_> (smells like your boot.img didnt get updated alongside ... stgraber was suspecting it could be related to writability)
<ogra_> adb shell initctl status lxc-android-config
<ogra_> does that say "stopped" ?
<pstolowski> ogra_: it says stop/waiting
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> so your android container does not run ... most likely because you didnt get the new boot.img during upgrade
<ogra_> adding -b0 (forcing the version to zero) to your system-image-cli call above would have avoided that
<pstolowski> ogra_: i'll remote .writable-image, then system-image-cli --build=0, and retry, makes sens?
<pstolowski> * sense
<ogra_> try that, yeah
<nerochiaro> my phone gets stuck at bootloader after installing an image, any ideas on how can i get it back to life or figure out what's wrong ?
<mhr3> ev, hey, do you know if crashes on the phone are automatically sent to daisy?
<ogra_> mhr3, they arent
<mhr3> ogra_, do you know why?
<ogra_> no :)
<mhr3> ev, i guess you will know :)
<ogra_> env MATCH=NULL
<ogra_> script
<ogra_>     [ -e /var/lib/apport/autoreport ] || exit 0
<ogra_>     [ "$MATCH" = NULL ] && exit 0
<ogra_> from /etc/init/apport-noui.conf
<ogra_> run: sudo -u \#32011/usr/share/apport/whoopsie-upload-all
<ogra_> manually ...
<nik90> ogra_: my phone is stuck at the google logo. I have flashed devel, trusty and trusty-proposed. Still same issue. Any workarounds?
<ogra_> nik90, did you use --bootstrap ?
<nik90> ogra_: on running adb shell and then top, I notice there are not unity8 processes
<nik90> ogra_: no I didnt
<ogra_> you should :)
<ogra_> else you will always have the boot.img from the very first install
<nik90> ah ...thnx...trying now
<nik90> ogra_: does it automatically go into the bootloader or do I need to press any magic key combination? In the terminal it says, Expecting the device to be in the bootloader... waiting
<ogra_> i think it should do that automatically ... though i actually never tested that ... i usually do: "adb reboot bootloader" before i even try to flash
<ogra_> (you can do that from a second terminal if it doesnt do it alone)
<nik90> ah okay..I had to do it manually from the second terminal
 * nik90 copies the above commands to a text file
<ev> mhr3, ogra_: there was a bug in the upstart job way back when: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/1235436
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1235436 in apport (Ubuntu) "/etc/init/apport-noui.conf is non-functional on the phone" [Critical,Fix released]
<ev> this is fixed, but I guess we missed a few adjustments to get the phones autosubmitting
<ev> I'll ask bdmurray to have a look
<ogra_> root@ubuntu-phablet:~# ls /var/lib/apport/
<ogra_> ls: cannot access /var/lib/apport/: No such file or directory
<ogra_> making the dir writable doesnt suffice ... it needs to exist on first boot
<ogra_> (postinst or some such needs to create it)
<ogra_> ev, the point is that the "MATCH=NULL" will always match so it cant work, no matter if that dir exists and is writable or not
<mhr3> ev, hope it won't take another 6 months
<ev> mhr3: what took six months?
<ev> mhr3: we've been very good in whoopsie of backporting changes, entirely thanks to bdmurray.
<ogra_> ev, we havent been good at rolling images with backports ...
<mhr3> ev, the bug you linked to is 6months old
<ogra_> package changes dont help on the phone without an image buiold
<ev> mhr3: it happened during my transition to management
<ev> it was a time where work on the error tracker had to be suspended while we found a workable model for it to continue under
<mhr3> ev, sorry, was meant as a nudge-nudge-wink-wink :)
<ev> mhr3: if I could put 4039240397 people full time on the error tracker, I would. Believe me. If you guys really want and need this stuff, I'd encourage you to help out and I'll carve out some of my own time to get you bootstrapped on it. :)
<ogra_> ev, btw adding a sleep 60 to delay the uploading for a minute after a new .crash file appears would prevent the boot from being hit by the uploading in case a .crash file appears during boot
<ogra_> (in the script block)
<mhr3> ev, well the server bits work now, so it seems that the job to actually autosubmit the crashes is only missing piece
<ogra_> (we have quite some issues if apport thinks it shoould collect data during a boot ... like 30sec to 1min extra time added to the boot time)
<mhr3> ev, to *fix* the job
<ogra_> mhr3, ther are multiple issues ... the directory needs to be pre-created, the "MATCH" stuff needs to be dropped ... well, and i would prefer if the uploading didnt happen during boot
<mhr3> ogra_, multiple small issues ;)
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> but we are one day before release
<mhr3> true
<ogra_> so this needs to be looked at very very carefully if we want to still fix it
<ogra_> (and testing of teh changes should start asap)
<asac> "Only issue I observed so far is that upgrade screen shows 13.10 when actually it is downloading 14.04 trusty image. This is bit of misleading.
<asac> "
<asac> do we need to bump something still?
<asac> somewhere?
<asac> where does the upgrade take this data from?
<ogra_> dunno ... probably gatox konws
<asac> gatox: ^^
<ogra_> iirc he does the UI
<asac> gatox: we tested upgrading from 13.10 to latest 14.04 image and observed the above
<asac> ogra_: whoelse?
<asac> i need more folks
<ogra_> asac, what about the above ? (whoopsie auto uploads)
<ogra_> asac, well, its seb128's team
<asac> ev: forgot to ask about whoospie ... did you find out why its broken?
<ogra_> not sure if mandel knows much about the UI side, he does download-manager
<asac> seb is off?
<ogra_> asac, it is turned off in the upstart job
<ogra_> asac, but there is more
<ogra_> asac, there is a bug that was never properly fixed (missing dir), there is the explicit exit 0 in the upstart job that makes it not start at all and there should be a sleep i the upstart job so it doesnt kick in during boot
<asac> ok
<asac> well, if we can convince ourselves to push this build to stable
<asac> we planned to keep stable == devel for a while
<asac> so we can do that after
<ogra_> well, adding the fixes would take me 5 min ... the prob is do we get enough testing
<ogra_> there are chances to get it into the release ... but since this feature has been off since forever i'm not sure we should actually do it
<sergiusens> ogra_: one more to add; don't process crashes if on battery please :-)
<ogra_> sergiusens, i doubt thats something we can fix now before release
<sergiusens> ogra_: in my mind we are rolling until feature freeze applies to us ;-)
<ogra_> well, but your mind does not do press reviews of images that were announced :)
<sergiusens> I'm thinking that the more we get in sync with desktop the more we will drop our rolling capabilities
<ogra_> news sites will pick up the released image and judge it
<sergiusens> ogra_: the press review that matters is meizu and bq :-)
<ogra_> or the other way round
<ogra_> they matter too
<ogra_> but they are 14.10 ... by then we are hopefully feature complete and rock solid
<ogra_> (and fast)
<ogra_> sergiusens, oh, btw, didnt you add a "adb reboot bootloader" to ubuntu-device-flash recently ? seems nik90 had to manually do that above
<asac> i dont think we should fix the disabled whoospie today
<asac> lest do that right after the image got out
<ogra_> asac, ok
<asac> and have that exposed for abit
<asac> also think about battery part etc.
<ogra_> yep
<sergiusens> ogra_: I wanted ubuntu-device-flash with --bootstrap to behave like ./flash-all.sh
<sergiusens> ogra_: and no bug logged for this just made me forget of thinking about it
<ogra_> ah, i thought i even had seen a MP
<ogra_> asac, i re-opened bug 1235436 FYI
<ubot5> bug 1235436 in apport (Ubuntu) "/etc/init/apport-noui.conf is non-functional on the phone" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1235436
<ogra_> (since it claimed fix-released)
<nerochiaro> sergiusens: after installing the most recent image my phone seems to be stuck at bootloader. how can i revive it ?
<sergiusens> nerochiaro: have you rebooted at least once?
<sergiusens> ogra_: does the full image still fit into /cache/recovery?
<ogra_> sergiusens, for my last OTA it did
<ogra_> and for my bootchart --bootstrap install it did too
<sergiusens> ogra_: yeah, wondering if FULL images this fit
<sergiusens> ogra_: we are good then
<sergiusens> nerochiaro: can you rm any tar files from /cache/recovery/ and try flashing again?
<ogra_> the cdimage tarball is tgz ... the system-image tarballs are tar.xz so there is still some wiggle room
<nerochiaro> sergiusens: i was running off of a dual boot installation, if that matters. how can i get a shell to remove the files from there ?
<pstolowski> ogra_: no luck with what we discussed earlier. stuck on 'google'
<sergiusens> nerochiaro: does ubuntu-device-flash work with dual boot? We officially dont support dual boot and I've never used it
<sergiusens> I don't think it does, fwiw
<ogra_> pstolowski, weird, that should have force upgraded the boot.img
<rickspencer3> I once joined an open AP in my house but it doesn't actually work (requires a password in the web browser type thing). every time I turn on my phone, it connects to that AP. Is there a GUI way to turn it off, or do I need to delete a NM file or something?
<ogra_> pstolowski, you can work around it by running: update-initramfs -u
<ogra_> (and ignore the scary errors it prints)
<ogra_> oh, and the image needs to be writable for this to work
<sergiusens> rickspencer3: there is no 'edit connections' yet; should be the system settings when it happens
<rickspencer3> thanks sergiusens
<cyphermox> rickspencer3: you'll want to find the file to the AP's name in /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections
<cyphermox> (and delete it)
<rickspencer3> thanks cyphermox
<rickspencer3> yeah, that's all I did
<cyphermox> yup
<rickspencer3> I just wanted to test the gui way if there was one
<cyphermox> unfortunately there isn't yet :(
<rickspencer3> I try to be good and use the features as much as possible :)
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, understood
<rickspencer3> I suppose we need a "forget this AP" feature
<cyphermox> yeah
<nerochiaro> dpm: for development if one is using dual boot the right channel is trusty-proposed, right ?
<cyphermox> some kind of side swipe of the AP maybe
<rickspencer3> man what we really need is to cache these pictures for the app store
<cyphermox> assuming that's possible in an indicator :)
<rickspencer3> or maybe we do and they are just slow to load
<pstolowski> ogra_: awesome, that fixed it, i.e. it booted into the new image, thanks!
<dpm> nerochiaro, trusty should work too. I had been using the stable channel for quite a while, I just recently switched to trusty-proposed to get new scopes goodness before the latest stable image was promoted
<nerochiaro> dpm: ok, the problem is that after the last update i'm stuck at bootloader when i reboot in ubuntu. i'm trying again after wiping /cache/ just to see if anything changes
<ogra_> pstolowski, welcome
<ogra_> cyphermox, i opened a new rfkill bug for you ... probably we can still get that in
<dpm> nerochiaro, I've heard others have had the problem recently, even if they weren't using dual boot. nik90, did you manage to fix your "stuck in Google logo" issue? ^
<cyphermox> ogra_: rfkill is seeded.
<ogra_> ah, k
<ogra_> well, would be a trivial change
<cyphermox> what's the bug number
<ogra_> (adding a dir to the .dirs file)
<ogra_> cyphermox, bug 1308459
<ubot5> bug 1308459 in rfkill (Ubuntu) "on touch rfkill needs to ship the /var/lib/rfkill directory or create it from a postinst script" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308459
<sergiusens> dpm: I was told that nik90's issue was with ubuntu-device-flash...
<sergiusens> dpm: they should be unrelated; but stuck at google logo means; grab logs for /cache/recovery/*.log, kernel messages and logcat
<ogra_> sergiusens, well, he flashed multiple images in succession before ... without using --bootstrap
<ogra_> sergiusens, unpacking of the android initrd happens from the initramfs since like 10 images or so ... if boot.img doesnt get updated along with teh rootfs as it always should, the container wont start
<sergiusens> ogra_: if you come from something different than pure ubuntu touch, you need to bootstrap; I thought I made that clear on the wiki; you can have some levels of success without bootstrap; but on your own
<ogra_> right
<sergiusens> ogra_: that's why I made the command switch very noticeable; no better word than 'bootstrap' :-)
<ogra_> with the above change you wont have success though ... unless you have a newer intird
<ogra_> yeah
<sergiusens> ogra_: I guess that change breaks dual boot; but they'll have to play catchup
 * sergiusens reboots into updated ubuntu, brb
<sergiusens> ...or not :-P
<nik90> dpm: yeah I fixed my issue
<nik90> nerochiaro: I had the issue with the latest image, but that's because I didn't use --bootstrap while flashing it
<dpm> ok, thanks sergiusens, nik90
<nerochiaro> dpm: nik90: how do i remove dual boot anyway ?
<nerochiaro> dpm: nik90: and just run ubuntu
<dpm> nerochiaro, you can just wipe your device
<nik90> nerochiaro: may be try ubuntu-device-flash --channel=trusty --wipe --bootstrap
<nik90> nerochiaro: the --wipe should remove everything
<nerochiaro> nik90: --bootstrap it tells me it detects device "tuna" but it's not supported
<nik90> nerochiaro: isn't your device a nexus 4?
<nerochiaro> nik90: galaxy nexus
<nik90> nerochiaro: I don't know..may be it is not supported for galaxy nexus
<nerochiaro> dpm: what do you mean ?
<dpm> nik90, I meant essentially what nik90 pasted
<dpm> but it seems ubuntu-device-flash no longer supports the Galaxy Nexus
<dpm> sergiusens, would phablet-flash work for nerochiaro's Galaxy Nexus? ^
<asac> ogra_: did our image size grow again
<asac> iftikhar was ablet to upgrade a couple horus ago
<ogra_> not since yesterday
<asac> from stable to devel
<asac> but now it doesnt work anymore
<ogra_> asac, the tarball was the same size for the last four images
<pmcgowan> dpm, galaxy must be supported  nerochiaro what happens if you put in --device=maguro, what the heck is tuna
<dpm> a fish? ;)
<ogra_> pmcgowan, galaxy wont work with latest images
<sergiusens> dpm: ubuntu-device-flash should work
<pmcgowan> ogra_, huh?
<sergiusens> dpm: but there are no images for maguro on devel-proposed
<ogra_> pmcgowan, we dont produce images for it anymore
<pmcgowan> ogra_, how come
<ogra_> the android boot and system.img are outdated
<pmcgowan> must have missed a memo
<ogra_> pmcgowan, asac asked for it
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: tuna is the basename for all the galaxies
<sergiusens> dpm: nerochiaro for ubuntu-device-flash just add --device maguro as pmcgowan mentions
<pmcgowan> ogra_, we have devs with only maguros still I think
<sergiusens> that only happens when you bootstrap
<ogra_> pmcgowan, maguro is stuck on 188 ... there were rootfs rebuilds for it because they dont cost us anything ... but they only worked by sheer luck
<pmcgowan> I see
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: there was an email 2 months ago from asac mentioning this
<ogra_> right
<pmcgowan> I recall it was coming but not that it happened
 * sergiusens wonders if people skim through emails at least
<ogra_> happened shortly after that email
<pmcgowan> ok
<asac> the android 4.4 switch was the time when we couldnt continue doing it anymore.
<ogra_> (as the ermail even said i think)
<ogra_> right
<pmcgowan> ok I simply forgot
<asac> rsalveti treid to keep it going but that didnt go that well
<asac> the idea was that we get the emulator, but there were too many firedrills
<asac> so now we have only arm emulator
<asac> which is awful
<ogra_> depends ... you can do gardening while the tests run ... or the dishes
<ogra_> :)
<pmcgowan> seems nerochiaro may need a new phone then
<pmcgowan> bfiller, ^^
<asac> however, i dont know about many real engineers that dont have a mako nowadays
<ogra_> pmcgowan, nobody should work with unsupported HW
<pmcgowan> agreed
<asac> pmcgowan: yes, maguro only is a big flag
<asac> to raise
<ogra_> nerochiaro, you can work around the outdated initrd at least by running "update-initramfs -u" for now
<asac> we have no preallocated budget, but if i get mroe engineers that dont have a supported device we surely can get that
<pmcgowan> asac, does your spreadsheet tell you if anyone is in that situation?
<ogra_> that should get you going ... but i wouldnt trust any test results on such a device
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: fwiw I bought a mako myself ;-)
<bfiller> pmcgowan: nerochiaro and artmello need nexus 4's
<bfiller> nerochiaro: can you use tablet if having problems with GN?
<ogra_> bfiller, updating the initrd by hand should work
<asac> pmcgowan: not easily. relying on requests
<ogra_> but the device test results wont be reliable in any case
<rsalveti> ogra_: did you find out what happened that made the image bigger lately?
<pmcgowan> asac, ok then we need 2 approved per bfiller above
<nerochiaro> bfiller: i can use the tablet, nexus 10
<ogra_> rsalveti, not really ... the latest 2MB come from the addition of libmockdev0 ... which seems to be an added dep ... but there were no huge additions or anything
<ogra_> rsalveti, might be it just piled up over time while nobody watched it
<rsalveti> right
<asac> pmcgowan: closes we had was this: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au6idq7TkpUUdDZyRE42M0FQNGF2c1VwakJ1cHo3c0E&usp=drive_web#gid=0
<pmcgowan> ogra_, rsalveti yeah I got tired of doing that
<asac> pmcgowan: i think bills section wasnt filled out... could be i missed to ping him or he didnt get to it
<asac> when i pinged him
<asac> so let him fill out his section i guess
<pmcgowan> ok cool
<asac> pmcgowan: for everyone who filled out we dont have that prob
<pmcgowan> ogra_, rsalveti can we put a check somewhere that flags both a larger image and new packages?
<pmcgowan> asac, vg
<ogra_> asac, we should put that in the release notes btw ... since we technically dont block maguro updates
<ogra_> (on devel-proposed)
<rsalveti> pmcgowan: I think ogra_ had that in his todo list or some sort of it
<asac> ogra_: we dont promote maguro i hope
<asac> i thought the build was killed?
<ogra_> asac, no, but they can switch channels or some such
<asac> ogra_: who can switch channels?and what would be the effect/
<ogra_> asac, we do still roll system-images with the old android ... and for it to work we would need at least one android rebuild sepcifically targeting maguro
<ogra_> the system-image builds come for free
<ogra_> thats why we still left them running while we knew it still worked
<asac> ogra_: we shoud really stop doing that
<asac> roll images for old android
<asac> we are just shipping something broken at best
<ogra_> why ? it proves our backwards compatibility
<ogra_> i dotn think it is bad ...
<asac> we dont test them
<asac> we dont know :)
<asac> we cant react
<ogra_> we get feedback ...
<asac> right. so thats causing the confusion above then
<asac> e.g. people not gettnig that dont have maguro builds anymore
<asac> if we still have them
<asac> kind of obvious :)
<rsalveti> the android is not the problem, the real issue now is that they can't use SF anymore
<asac> there are many things i feel might be interesting; but in practice we have no time/resources to care about this
<rsalveti> which was the only way to make it useful
<asac> weq should just call it a day and kill them
<ogra_> stgraber, ^^^^ can you rip maguro out of system-image imports ?
<asac> we have proven we can in theory do backward compatibilty
<asac> so maybe next time we do that proper
<asac> rsalveti: so what do you think?
<rsalveti> yeah, we should stop importing it
<asac> stop importing?
<rsalveti> same for grouper
<ogra_> right
<asac> for sure
<asac> hell
<asac> kill that stuff
<ogra_> stgraber, grouper too
<asac> i am sure people are still using grouper for dev
<ogra_> well
<asac> which was the whole rason to kill it so that people would come out of their caves and we can fix that they are using those builds
<ogra_> both are still fine for low level stuff
<ogra_> as long as you dont rely on Mir ...
<ogra_> or any screen stuff
<asac> guys that need that
<asac> can just assemble stuff on their own
<asac> its just misleading
<asac> i dont mind if we still  produce the parts
<rsalveti> right, just not importing to system-image
<asac> but system-image? i just think thats wrong
<asac> just kill that
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> thats why i pinged steev
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> stgraber,
<asac> good
<ogra_> tsk
<asac> kill maguro and grouper from system-image
<asac> then we wont have confusion
<asac> and just say in release notes that maguro and grouper are not available anymore
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> we'll also have to rip them out from cdimage ... but thats for after release ... i wont touch that code now
<asac> yeah sounds like not prio
<sil2100> boiko: hello!
<boiko> hi sil2100!
<sil2100> boiko: so, I have a question - I see you were working on the dialer-app crash during tests, right? (something qtubuntu related)
<boiko> sil2100: well, now I am not actually working on it, it is more that I am waiting on other fixes
<boiko> sil2100: but yes
<sil2100> boiko: what I wanted to ask: when does the crash happen exactly?
<boiko> sil2100: so, what happens is: the test is making sure incoming calls are working, so we launch the dialer-app (without using upstart)
<boiko> sil2100: and then when the snap decision is accepted, telephony-service-approver requests the dialer-app to be activated using URI dispatcher
<boiko> sil2100: which in turns use upstart to launch the app, but as there is another instance already running, unity8 rejects this new app instance and then it crashes
<boiko> sil2100: so, the test passes because the instance that crashes is not the one being handle by autopilot
<sil2100> hmmm
<sil2100> Which test was causing this behavior?
<sergiusens> mandel: care to review a tiny MR? https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/goget-ubuntu-touch/download_error_message/+merge/216114
<mandel> sergiusens, sure, I'm blocked until om26er can get out of a hangout, looking
<mandel> sergiusens, rejected ;)
<sergiusens> mandel: too small?
<sergiusens> :-)
<mandel> sergiusens, 500 lines or I wont even look at it hehe
<sergiusens> mandel: I have one of those coming up f you want right after Easter; the mms encoder ;-)
<mandel> sergiusens, I should not open my mouth.. or type
<ogra_> Bug 1240875
<ubot5> bug 1240875 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Need to reboot the phone to have it pick up a new language setting" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1240875
<boiko> sil2100: oups, just saw you asked about the test. it is test_outgoing_answer_local_hangup
<ogra_> boiko, whats the reason to not start the ap via upstart ?
<ogra_> thats something that should never happen in real life
<ogra_> *the app
<sil2100> hmmm
<boiko> ogra_: well, I explained that in the mailing list, but it is that at some point the dialer-app is not properly terminated by one of the tests, and the next tests fail
<sil2100> boiko: I thought that outgoing means that that we're calling the given number and just waiting for it to pick up
<boiko> sil2100: oups, wait, I might have picked the wrong test name, just a sec :)
<sil2100> boiko: at least the test says so - we're calling the given number and waiting x seconds for it to answer
<sil2100> Ah ;)
<sil2100> Since I'm in the middle of figuring out the test_outgoing_answer_local_hangup /(_remote_hangup) failures
<boiko> sil2100: yeah you are right, it is the test_incoming one
<boiko> sil2100: but they actually might be related, I remember sometimes after running the test_incoming, the system would get in a unusable state and then other tests would fail with crashes and so
<boiko> sil2100: I was trying to use the ubuntu-test-cases to reproduce the env, but it was not working here, need to check what is going on
<sil2100> boiko: yeah, since what I see from the failures - it looks like in _local_hangup the dialer-app app just simply dies right before the test finishes
<sil2100> boiko: that's because it actually fails finding MainView from the last line of the test, while inbetween this line and the previous one checking for MainView nothing happens
<sil2100> There's just an assert and a 3 second wait
<sil2100> No operations are performed
<stgraber> ogra_: ok, so you want me to drop maguro and grouper right?
<ogra_> stgraber, yeah
<stgraber> ogra_: ok, so they'll entirely disappear from all the trusty channels, is that fine (not just stop importing)?
<ogra_> but keep the last maguro build in devel please so people still have something to tinker with ... just dont import new stuff
<stgraber> ah, ok
<ogra_> we snapshotted 188 for maguro for that back then
<stgraber> that may be slightly trickier :)
<ogra_> people should use that
<ogra_> asac, rsalveti ^^^^opinions ?
<ogra_> stgraber, lets hear what the others think
<stgraber> ok, so I can remove maguro and grouper entirely from trusty-proposed and all its sub-channels
<stgraber> and we can keep it in trusty itself
<stgraber> you simply won't be able to copy to it since you won't have any source image
<ogra_> roght, proposed is fine in any case
<rsalveti> right
<rsalveti> for maguro is fine
<ogra_> but i'm not sure what to do with trusty/devel
<boiko> sil2100: I will spend some more time on that today checking what is going on. it is weird cause this bug only happens in the smoke tests, if I simply autopilot run dialer_app on the device this works
<ogra_> since that will become stable and later U
<rsalveti> ogra_: when did we last proposed an image for grouper?
<ogra_> we currently keep 188 in devel/trusty for maguro
<ogra_> 250 i think
<ogra_> have to check
<rsalveti>             "version": 294
<rsalveti> ogra_: ^
<ogra_> yeah
<rsalveti> so yeah, just cleaning them from trusty-proposed should be fine
<sil2100> boiko: same for me sadly, yes
<rsalveti> leave them in trusty still
<ogra_> rsalveti, that still doesnt give any hint for dvel
<ogra_> rsalveti, but that will become U on friday
<rsalveti> ogra_: what devel really means?
<rsalveti> right
<ogra_> which means we should flush it
<rsalveti> is it just a link or just imported twice and always imported to devel?
<ogra_> and move all stuff we want to keep to stable
<rsalveti> right
<ogra_> and we dont want to move grouper or maguro
<ogra_> so since we will wipe them *at some point* the question is, should we cause more work for stgraber now just to keep them for a few days or wipe them from devel too
<asac> stgraber: ogra_: i dont know. preserving the last maguro would be nice i guess, but if there is no way, i doubt it would be critical.
<asac> no way with reasaonable effort
<ogra_> asac, well, it would have to go to stable
<asac> ?
<ogra_> devel will point to U
<asac> we surely dont want to put it to stable
<asac> if we delete it, we delete it :)
<asac> hmm
<ogra_> devel will change ... thats the point
<asac> but stable != trusty
<asac> but trusty wont
<ogra_> do we want to keep non U images in devel
<asac> and stable is not the same as trusty i assuem
<ogra_> trusty will be stable with the release
<ogra_> or not ?
<stgraber> ok, I'm back
<asac> i dont know how we planned to do it
<ogra_> so trusty/devel images go to the stable channel
<stgraber> ok, so what I guess we should do is:
<asac> i assumed that a stable promotion would not be done by just moving stable to trusty
<stgraber>  - Drop maguro and grouper from trusty-proposed and all aliases, redirects and sub-channels
<stgraber>  - Keep them in trusty itself
<stgraber>  - Drop them when setting up U
<ogra_> asac, no, we copy trusty/devel content to stable
<asac> right its a copy, not a link, so we can keep it in trusty, but not promote that to stable
<stgraber> which means they'll be in devel only until we open U, then they'll vanish, though they'll still be available if someone then uses stable or trusty
<ogra_> stgraber, right, but thats pointless
<ogra_> stgraber, if we drop them anyway you can as well drop them now and have a lit less work
<stgraber> which may be a problem because we probably don't want them in stable :)
<asac> stgraber: so stable should stay on the 13.10
<asac> image
<ogra_> i want a plan that doesnt make us drop them
<asac> and trusty should keep what is currently in there
<ogra_> or drop them right now
<sil2100> boiko: anyways, thanks for looking into that if anything!
<ogra_> half breeded stuff between these two doesnt make any sense
<boiko> sil2100: sure, no problems :)
<asac> if we only have choice to drop them or promote to stable, we want to drop them
<stgraber> ok, well let me kill those two from the -proposed channels at least since we seem to agree on those at least
<asac> yeah no new proposed images for them
<ogra_> right
<asac> then lets talk about what we do tomorrrow with our latest and greatest trusty images and how we make what stable
<ogra_> well, trusty should move too stable imho
<ogra_> and replace the old stable
<ogra_> the point is ... if we want to keep images for grouper and maguro ... where do we do that
<ogra_> do we just move them forward to U and have them in devel then ?
<ogra_> even though they are not actually U images
<asac> maybe we can make a channel called "graveyard" or "rip"?
<asac> anyway, lets really talk first how the stable promotion in general willb e done tomorrow
<rsalveti> I think stable is not related to the release
<ogra_> rsalveti, well
<asac> its not related to the release-named channel
<ogra_> to what then ?
<rsalveti> not necessarily :-)
<rsalveti> to what we call stable :-)
<asac> its a separate channel where we push builds that we feel are stable enough
<ogra_> rsalveti, and will we call the trusty image stable tomorrow ?
<ogra_> :)
<asac> like cherry picking builds from devel until we have a way to branch out
<rsalveti> ogra_: that's up to asac I believe
<asac> if upgrade testing goes well, we plan to
<ogra_> right
<asac> we might send an update with the two main issues
<ogra_> thats what i expect
<asac> shortly after
<ogra_> but the image in trusty will become our new stable
<stgraber> ogra_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7261856/
<ogra_> the two dropped arches wont
<ogra_> now where do we keep the images for these two arches
<asac> ogra_: the images we pick. not all images
<ogra_> asac, yes
<asac> e.g. pick flo and mako
<ogra_> asac, yes
<asac> but not grouper and maguro for instance
<ogra_> asac, yes
<ogra_> that conversation starts becoming easy :P
<asac> so in that sense i dont see how keeping the last maguro builds in trusty harms
<ogra_> (up key and enter :P )
<asac> because thje maguro wont be in stable that way
<asac> but ... lets see if thats the truth
<ogra_> asac, *where* do we store the images for maguro and grouper
<asac> ogra_: why store?
<asac> they are in trusty channel
<ogra_> asac,  devel should be flushed for the new cycle
<asac> cant they just live there?
<asac> but trusty is a separate channel that is currently just a symlink
<ogra_> so people would explicitly have to say --channel trusty
<asac> if we move devel to u, trusty would still exist
<asac> right
<stgraber> so currently that's not how things work at all, stable is an alias, an alias can't have different devices than the channel it points to
<ogra_> while we try to discourage the use of the names
<ogra_> s/names/release names/
<stgraber> stable currently points to the saucy channel and so has all the same devices as the saucy channel
<asac> stgraber: right, but i think stable needs to be independent kind of
<asac> stgraber: is that technically not possible?
<ogra_> stable would have to become its own channel
<asac> so we can cherry pick builds we want to promote to stable from wherever we want
<ogra_> not being an alias
<asac> right. just its own primary channel
<stgraber> sa it is today, no, it's not possible
<ogra_> currently its just a link to saucy
<stgraber> because of what happens with version numbers when we initialize a new series
<stgraber> a new series starts with ID = 1. Aliases are how the device knows that it needs to reset the clock and do a full upgrade.
<asac> can we highjack our saucy channel to be our stable channel?
<davidcalle> cwayne, ping
<asac> and then fix it later?
<asac> by adding feature to start channel ID with an offset
<ogra_> i suspect we would have to reset the version in stable
<ogra_> saucy = v1
<ogra_> trusty = v2
<asac> well
<asac> we could create a fresh stable
<asac> copy the saucy build in there
<asac> and force an offset
<ogra_> thats what i say :)
<asac> until we can force an offset we can misuse the saucy channel
<asac> ogra_: you left out forcing an offset :)
<ogra_> v1 saucy ... in a new stable channel
<ogra_> v2 trusty in that same channel
<asac> so our current stable image has v1?
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> we would have to change to that
<stgraber> actually we do support setting an offset when creating a channel
<ogra_> and people from saucy 101 would get upgraded
<asac> cool
<asac> stgraber: so we could do it if we wanted in theory?
<ogra_> *wouldnt
<ogra_> the prob is that we kept the image number for saucy
<stgraber> asac: so the main reason to reset the IDs is because of the hashing method used by the client, we have a limited numbers of bits we can use for the version
<ogra_> so the next stable has to be greater than 101
<stgraber> asac: if we never reset the ID and we hit that limit, we're screwed
 * stgraber digs the actual limit from the spec
<asac> stgraber: why did we choose an amount of bits that would constrain us ever in time of universe :)?
<stgraber> asac: we didn't, python did
<asac> we have a byte or what?
<stgraber> asac: we're on a 32bit arch, we need to hash two versions together so we have 32bit total hence 16bit for the version number
<asac> what is our max build number?
<stgraber> so we are technically limited at 65536
<asac> ok thats a bit ahead :)
<ogra_> just a small bit !
<stgraber> if we switch to arm64 by then, then we're good for a long long time
<asac> hehe
<rsalveti> haha
<asac> why didnt we just hash bigger things together
<asac> but well
<ogra_> even if we switch to arm64 ... i bet the recovery busyboy wont handle bigger numbers still :)
<asac> stgraber: so what bout the proposal to misuse the saucy channel and copy our build to that
<asac> until we have sorted waht to do with an independent stable cdhannel?
<ogra_> (we cant dd imaggges bigger than 2G today because of that)
<stgraber> ogra_: it's the ubuntu side doing that, not recovery, so not a problem there :)
<asac> and leave stable pointing to saucy?
<ogra_> stgraber, yeah, but i'm sure we'd run into recovery issues too
<stgraber> asac: it's not very hard to setup stable the right way, so I'd prefer we do that instead of abusing saucy
<asac> ok
<rsalveti> ogra_: what is the issue with the 2G limitation?
<asac> stgraber: right way means: lets do an offset by 101 this time?
<ogra_> stgraber, asac, but dont forget that people running stable run image 101 (or 102)
<asac> and copy the last saucy in there, and then the new trusty from today/tomorwo?
<ogra_> rsalveti, dd ... in recovery busybox cant address bigger stuff
<asac> stgraber: or what do you suggest?
<rsalveti> ogra_: hm, can't we just fix that?
<ogra_> rsalveti, would be nice, not sure though ... might be a bionic limit ... unsigned int etc
<rsalveti> not critical I guess
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> it would be nice for rootstock
<stgraber> asac, ogra_: right. 1) Remove current stable channel alias 2) Create a seperate stable channel with all the devices from saucy 3) Copy all the saucy stuff over so it's identical to the alias
<ogra_> so you could make images at random size
<ogra_> for development thats helpful
<stgraber> asac, ogra_: then when we want to start copying trusty stuff over we can just add the devices we care about, drop those we don't anymore and then copy using copy-image
<ogra_> stgraber, and regard that trusty 300 needs to become stable 103
<ogra_> so that the phoes still pick it up
<stgraber> ogra_: no, we'll simply copy whatever trusty version you want over without renumbering, it'll higher than our current saucy one anyway (which is currently 101)
<asac> stgraber: awesome!
<ogra_> stgraber, ugh
<asac> stgraber: sounds like a plan. you think you can pull that off still?
<ogra_> so in ten releases we are at image 1113
<ogra_> or some such
<ogra_> just because we kept artificial gaps
<asac> well, if stable is kind of rolling we can still introduce a new hashing algorithm i presume
<asac> as long as we dont do that too late :P
<ogra_> well, out minimal image number is 102 already
<ogra_> with trusty it will be over 300
<stgraber> ogra_: well, if you don't care about the version number in stable matching that in the source channel (trusty), we can simply not pass -k to copy-image
<stgraber> ogra_: then you'll just get whatever's the next one in the stable channel
<ogra_> U might only have 250 builds ... and will have to be up-numbered
<ogra_> stgraber, thats what i mean
<ogra_> keep the damage low
<ogra_> else we grow and grow with big gaps ... just to then count in single steps once we surpassed the version of devel
<stgraber> ogra_: ok, so yeah, we can absolutely do that. I can easily have stable start at ID 1, then increment with every copy, which would put us currently around ID 15 with saucy, then just keep incrementing when you copy stuff from trusty
<ogra_> stgraber, well, 103
<ogra_> not 1
<ogra_> because we might have people out there on stable 101
<ogra_> or 102
<stgraber> ogra_: nope, when I turn an alias to a standard channel, system-image will consider this an alias change, so I can switch to a lower number
<ogra_> oh !
<ogra_> sweet !
<olli_> hey popey, seems like https://bugs.launchpad.net/notes-app/+bug/1288885 is in flight
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1288885 in notes-app "App cannot be started on clean Trusty desktop" [Undecided,New]
<popey> olli_: yeah, updates in the ppa
<popey> olli_: feel free to update and test
<olli_> will this also fix the apps wrapped in a shell script?
<olli_> i.e. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8-desktop-session/+bug/1300911
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1300911 in unity8-desktop-session (Ubuntu) "Unity 8 Desktop Preview session can not launch apps wrapped in a shell script" [Medium,Triaged]
<olli_> popey, will try
<popey> olli_: well, that bug seems overly wide, all of the core apps having tasks, probably not needed?
<popey> be good to focus on the ones that are actually broken
<popey> i.e. can you re-test now pls â»
<olli_> popey, there were two issues to be fixed and they are represented by the task (as you asked me to do)
<olli_> one fix was to add -qt5 which is handled in 1288885
<olli_> the second fix is to add "exec" when there is a shell script, in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8-desktop-session/+bug/1300911
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1300911 in unity8-desktop-session (Ubuntu) "Unity 8 Desktop Preview session can not launch apps wrapped in a shell script" [Medium,Triaged]
<olli_> popey, I'll test now, but I have a feeling we missed the 2nd bug
<popey> and you had a conversation yesterday, and Saviq said add -qt5
<popey> I understood 130091 (adding exec) was not wanted
<popey> after that conversation
<olli_> I don't think that's what we said
<olli_> Saviq, ^
<olli_> popey, there is just 2 different ways how to start an app
<Saviq> popey, that's the only thing we can do for unity8 atm (the exec thing)
<olli_> but let me test before getting further down that road
<stgraber> ogra_, asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7262000/
<stgraber> slangasek: ^
<Saviq> popey, it will only accept connections from the PID that upstart reports the app started as
<Saviq> popey, without exec, qmlscene gets a different PID, and gets rejected
<ogra_> stgraber, 3.1 .... dont drop mako :)
<ogra_> s/mako/grouper/
<asac> stgraber: 3) (LATER) Start moving trusty to stable
<asac> stgraber: how much later?
<ogra_> tomorrow
<asac> from what i read that feels like the step we need to do to release
<ogra_> whenever we release#
<ogra_> right
<stgraber> ogra_: oh yeah, that
<ogra_> 3 is the actual relkease
<slangasek> stgraber: hi, I don't have context for this pastebin, what's going on?
<asac> stgraber: whats the rational for not keeping the old build IDs from the saucy builds? e.g. with an offset?
<stgraber> ogra_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7262013/
<ogra_> slangasek, shuffling channels and subarches
<genii> Hi guys... does anyone know if there is a Touch image which can work on what is basically a stock Blaze Tablet ( omap4470 )
<ogra_> slangasek, like we want to keep images around for unsoupported devices (grouper, maguro) but in an unsupported way
<stgraber> asac: we could, but I think it'd just make things more confusing as we start copying over trusty because people would then have build IDs matching for a while (so long as they're on saucy) and then not match anymore
<stgraber> asac: I feel it's best not to have them match to begin with to clear any doubt about this
<asac> stgraber: but useres currently running 101 from stable would still get an upgrade to 16?
<ogra_> yes
<asac> if thats the case then i dont mind
<ogra_> thanks to the system-image magic
<popey> saviq, olli_: ok, my misunderstanding.
<stgraber> asac: yep, we have logic that should make that happen. I pinged barry to confirm.
<asac> slangasek: 1. we want to release; 2. we have unsupported builds in devel/trusty channel that we dont want to release; 3. we also do not want to remove from trusty channel
<slangasek> asac: ok, so this is making the 'stable' channel useful?
<asac> and in general we would probably be able to cherrypick or promote builds coming from any channel to stable without having to redirect the alias necessariy
<olli_> popey, np, just got to test dropping letters... issue still exists and DL is listed in both apps, i.e. needs both fixes
<stgraber> slangasek: basically, asac wants to move from a simple alias from stable to whatever's the current stable release to instead cherry-picking
<olli_> popey, how can we help to move that?
<popey> olli_: patches welcome
<stgraber> slangasek: so stable will potentially have a different set of devices from trusty, will no longer have matching build IDs and will require manual intervention to publish new images
<asac> slangasek: we want to surely ship the build we release in stable channel
<slangasek> hmm
<asac> slangasek: option 1 was to just point stable to trusty, but that also ships our probably broken grouper and maguro unless we wipe them from trusty retroactively (which i agree with gora is probably a bit harsh)
<slangasek> I worry that "manual intervention" means it won't happen
<ogra_> and gets is in awkward situations with version numbers
<asac> slangasek: we have to solve the stable/beta promotion problem anyway
<asac> slangasek: thats independent
<ogra_> s/is/us/
<slangasek> asac: ok
<asac> slangasek: its connected to finding the right balance of devel vs. beta/stable cadence
<asac> and figuring how we want to do that anyway
<asac> slangasek: we should sit together with achiang and colin to sort this out
<asac> let me give you a doc
<olli_> popey, so out of the list in 1288885 stock ticker, calculator, clock, music and terminal don't work under u8/preview
<olli_> popey, I can try to send you patches, but my bzr skills are non-existing, so it might just be a regular diff, hope that works
<popey> olli_: do you have a dev who can help me?
<popey> if we ask nik90 nicely he may be able to help .. ?
<popey> they're one line fixes, but everyone is somewhat bogged down, so if you have a dev who can help submit merges, that would be great, we can shepherd them through jenkins etc
<olli_> popey, asking bregma to join here, maybe he can give me a hand
<stgraber> ogra_, asac, slangasek: ok, so I've done the -proposed bits and I'll leave the rest alone for now. I've checked with barry and it looks like the client will do the right thing if we choose to proceed, just let me know and it should take me 2-3 hours to implement (and test).
<ogra_> stgraber, ok, please plan these 2-3h for tomorrow then
<ogra_> assuming we do our release then
<asac> stgraber: i feel your plan makes sense; lets give slangasek some more time to think
<ogra_> :)
<asac> and veto/find issues etc.
<slangasek> no time needed here for thinking
<ogra_> yeah
<slangasek> please go ahead
 * ogra_ notes down ... "slangasek ... thinks in no time"
<asac> cool
<ogra_> :)
<asac> stgraber: anything that might be awful if we do it this way?
<asac> if you know something please speak up, otherwise go for it :)
<asac> and thanks for short notice help
<ogra_> well, dont release yet :)
<ogra_> keep that for tomorrow
<stgraber> asac: not really, that's actually how things are meant to be used, the awful thing is you artificially keeping the build IDs in sync between the other channels :)
<ogra_> yeah, but everything else makes testing awful
<stgraber> there will be a one time full update for users currently on the stable channel but that shouldn't be many people
<asac> stgraber: which channels would we keep the IDs in sync now?
<asac> i think its fine to get a full update
<asac> the image probably changed massively anywya :)
<stgraber> you're still keeping trusty-proposed and trusty in sync and the i386 and armhf livefs in sync but as ogra_ said, that's to make things nicer for QA (though it's starting to be a problem now that we have multiple rootfs which may not build at the same time :))
<stgraber> asac: ok, so I'll implement everything except copying trusty today, that way tomorrow you can just do the trusty copy whenever you want
<asac> stgraber: you mean copying from trusty to stable?
<asac> yeah thats great
<stgraber> asac: I mean I'm going to do all of 2) today and we can do 3) tomorrow
<asac> stgraber: we also want to drop grouper
<asac> in 3.1.
<asac> or am i wrong?
<ogra_> you look at the wrong paste :)
<asac> wait
<ogra_> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7262013/
<ogra_> he updated it
<asac> indeed :)
<nik90> olli_, popey: Yeah sure I can do that
<olli_> nik90, lovely
<olli_> nik90, I am currently looking at dropping-letters atm
<olli_> seems like trunk has the fix I am looking for (i.e. dropping-letters.desktop says "Exec=qmlscene -qt5 ..."))
<olli_> which according to popey is rev 46, PPA has 44
<olli_> which doesn't have the "-qt5" flag
<popey> thanks nik90
<nik90> hmmm launchpad isn't loading for me...
<sil2100> oSoMoN: how's the landing line 21 going?
<olli_> nik90, for some context: I am looking at fixing packages listed in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8-desktop-session/+bug/1300911
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1300911 in unity8-desktop-session (Ubuntu) "Unity 8 Desktop Preview session can not launch apps wrapped in a shell script" [Medium,Triaged]
<nik90> olli_: if you give me the diff, I can propose a MP with that which popey can then approve
<popey> mzanetti: have you seen this in the new task switcher - vertical line.. http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2014-04-16-164030.png
<mzanetti> popey: yes
<olli_> nik90, for dropping-letters we are good with what's in trunk
<popey> nik90: so basically we just need an "exec" before the qmlscene calls for those apps which don't start on unity8, right olli_ ?
<olli_> popey, if it's in a shell wrapper
<popey> mzanetti: got a bug, need one?
<nik90> olli_: most of the core apps use the qmlscene shell wrapper (except for reminders, filemanager I thinnk)
<olli_> nik90, I'll send diffs and a list of actions via mail to coordinate
<mzanetti> popey: don't have one
<nik90> olli_: ok
<popey> thanks olli_ nik90
<stgraber> ogra_: ok, touch i386 added to the tracker and nusakan, so everything should now work fine there
<ogra_> merci  !
<stgraber> ogra_: next up is the system-image stable channel stuff, preparing that now (may grab some lunch before)
<stgraber> while I'm flashing current stable on my mako...
<ogra_> :)
<mhall119> cjwatson: ping re: shared libraries in click packages
<cjwatson> mhall119: is it release-critical?
<mhall119> cjwatson: nope, so if you're busy with release stuff it can wait
<mhall119> cjwatson: would you prefer an email?
<cjwatson> mhall119: yeah, could use not being distracted at the moment, if it could wait till after release that'd be good
<cjwatson> mhall119: e-mail would be fine
<asac> mandel: did we find out why we see 13.10 when we upgrade from saucy image to latest devel?
<asac> where this info is coming from?
<asac> (sorry if the answer is in mail)
<asac> seb128: did you see iftikhar
<asac> seb128: can you check this one: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7262498/
<asac> seb128: its also in your inbox
<asac> seb128: the two system setting ones
<seb128> asac, the email stating that language and whoopsie preferences are lost on upgrade?
<seb128> asac, yeah, saw that
<asac> seb128: yeah. dont think its critical
<seb128> no, it's not
<asac> but if its trivial, we could do it still
<seb128> and it's not a settings problem
<asac> seb128: so who would own it?
<seb128> the settings are only an app to drive backends
<seb128> well, locale is a file on disk
<seb128> who should own user file vanish on upgrade?
<seb128> same for whoopsie ... maybe ev in case the whoopsie configuration format/storage changed?
<ev> the configuration format has remained the same for some time: /etc/default/whoopsie
<ev> it's been that since 12.04 if memory serves
<seb128> ev: is that the configuration that is edited when you use the UI?
<ev> yes
<seb128> on the touch image
<ev> not directly though
<ev> it talks to a dbus service which edits it
<seb128> asac, is iftikhar doing IRC?
<asac> seb128: yes iahmad
<asac> iahmad: :)
<seb128> ev: that email states that the config value change when upgrading from saucy touch to trusty
<seb128> iahmad, hey
<asac> seb128: he is far eaast though ... so not sure if he is still on
<asac> pakistan iirc
<seb128> is there any way you could get the value of ~/.pam_environment and /etc/default/whoopsie before and after upgrade
<seb128> asac, ok, if he doesn't reply I'm going to follow up on the email
<ev> seb128: which mail this this?
<ev> is this*
<seb128> ev: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7262498/
<daker> popey: can you link me your click packages mirror ?
<tedg> alecu, Where to do bugs for com.ubuntu.developer.alexandre-abreu.content-hub-html5-exporter_content-hub-html5-exporter_0.1 go? bug 1294103
<ubot5> bug 1294103 in upstart-app-launch (Ubuntu) "Crash after installing a click application" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294103
<ev> seb128: yeah, knowing the value of /etc/default/whoopsie before and after upgrade would help. It could be that the dbus service died (or is wedged) and so the UI doesn't know what to set the default state of the button to.
<ev> so thanks for following up and requesting that
<ev> please do CC me if you'd like
<seb128> ev: yw!
<seb128> ev: ok, let's see what in the reply about the file content before/after update
 * ev nods
<alecu> tedg: sorry, don't know about that
<popey> daker: it's offline, on my pc - what do you need?
<tedg> alecu, Sorry, wrong guy :-)
<tedg> alex_abreu,  Where to do bugs for com.ubuntu.developer.alexandre-abreu.content-hub-html5-exporter_content-hub-html5-exporter_0.1 go? bug 1294103
<ubot5> bug 1294103 in upstart-app-launch (Ubuntu) "Crash after installing a click application" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294103
<alecu> no prob :-)
<stgraber> ogra_: I have turned off the cron job on nusakan as I'm working on the stable channel, please don't do any manual action over there until I'm done, thanks!
<daker> popey: don't worry i just have to plug the phone and look directly into the click files :)
<ogra_> stgraber, ok, i just promoted 299 to devel though ...
<ogra_> (just FYI)
<stgraber> ogra_: ok, well if you did that after I started, it won't appear on the public server for a little while, publishing is disabled
<ogra_> well, i see it
<ogra_> so we should be fine
<ogra_> (in the devel channel)
<popey> i see it too
<stgraber> yeah, looks like you did that right before I turned off publishing then :)
<ogra_> timing ... :)
<sergiusens> mandel: https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/goget-ubuntu-touch/space-errors/+merge/216154
<alex_abreu> tedg, mmmh this is not an official app, is it?
<tedg> alex-abreu, Heh, don't ask me, it just has your name in the appid so I asked you ;-)
<alex-abreu> tedg, yeah :) but it was meant to be an example for a click app .. it has never been uploaded to the store (not by me at least :) ) ...
<alex-abreu> tedg, but anyway ... in unity-webapps-qml https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-webapps-qml
<tedg> alex-abreu, K, I'll move it over there and mark it invalid. That way it's documented.
<stgraber> ogra_: http://system-image.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/stable/grouper/ updated
<stgraber> ogra_: however I need to add a small trick to get existing devices to upgrade, doing the change here, should be in production within the hour (will be a temporary change we can drop in ay 2-3 months when everyone is expected to have run at least on upgrade)
<ogra_> stgraber, fine with me
<mandel> sergiusens, on it
<sergiusens> mandel: added a comment on how to trigger the failure if your smarts fail ;-)
<mhall119> ogra_: stgraber: I don't see r299 available on my phone, should I?
<ogra_> yes
<mhall119> I'm on 296, and it says I'm up to date
<mhall119> on mako
<mandel> sergiusens, small needs info
<daker> we are already on 300
<ogra_> da"we" ?
<ogra_> daker, "we" ?
<ogra_> proposed is
<kenvandine> bfiller_afk, bug 1308653
<ubot5> bug 1308653 in gallery-app "[content] other apps should be able to open photos in gallery-app" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308653
<ogra_> thats the brave guys ...
<mhall119> daker: maybe on -proposed :-P
<kenvandine> bfiller_afk, wish list :)
<daker> ogra_: -proposed
<mhall119> ogra_: even system-image-cli says I'm up to date
<ogra_> mhall119, well, i definitely see it on the server and all index files are up to date listing it
<ogra_> mhall119, your phone just doesnt like you i guess :P
<mhall119> ogra_: http://system-image.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/devel/mako/ doesn't show 299, not for me anyway
<stgraber> so we may not have been great at timing after all :)
<ogra_> mhall119, hmm, probably the syncing issue that stgraber maentioned above
<sergiusens> mandel: I don't really need to, but ok ;-)
<ogra_> stgraber, it was there
<ogra_> stgraber, i swear
 * ogra_ goes upstairs to check his desktop ... got the page still open there 
<stgraber> ogra_: it may actually have been dropped entirely from system-image as I had to restore backups a couple of times, possibly while you were publishing, just took a while for system-image to catch up
<stgraber> ogra_: we'll have to re-promote probably
<balloons> seb128, I'm re-doing the upgrade from stable to devel.. what files are you interested in besides whoopsie and locale?
<ogra_> stgraber, well, doe it use a similar round robin sync mechanism cdimage has  ?
<mandel> sergiusens, that is why I added the needs info :)
<mandel> sergiusens, you might want to at least log it, you never know..
<ogra_> stgraber, on cdimage i often enough have the image shown and vanishing for like 10min when reloading because the backend server round-robins
<ogra_> stgraber, sitting on my desktop now, i got the  inhttp://system-image.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/trusty/manta/ front of me and see 299 in there
 * ogra_ is brave and reloads
<ogra_> and its gone :(
<seb128> balloons, those should be enough
<stgraber> ogra_: ok, so I think I've got stable sorted out here, my mako is now upgrading.
<ogra_> cool
<sergiusens> mandel: ok, pushed some sugar coating
<stgraber> ogra_: feel free to re-promote 299 now, I won't need to revert the www tree again
<ogra_> ok
<mandel> sergiusens, sugar coating is nice :)
<ogra_> mhall119, enjoy
 * mhall119 downloads before stgraber can kill it again :)
<ogra_> haha
<mhall119> maybe....stuck at 0%
<pmcgowan> ogra_, what is the intention for stable? who is that for as it will never be as good as the latest proposed?
<ogra_> stgraber, oh.while you're at it, generic_x86 could need some version syncing
<ogra_> pmcgowan, a non moving snapshot you can safely develop and test your apps on ?
<pmcgowan> if it met some completion criteria I would agree, but perhaps we are just too early to have it be meaningful
<stgraber> ogra_: ok, I'll do some bumping in trusty-proposed then, please don't use copy-image while I do that as I need to hack the code locally for that kind of trick :)
<pmcgowan> ogra_, if it was maintained with updates I think it would have value
<pmcgowan> but its not at this point
<ogra_> pmcgowan, well, there will be an ubuntu release announced ... and press will look for testing phone progress too
<ogra_> stgraber, i wont touch anything there anymore today :)
<pmcgowan> thats part of the issue, devel will always be better for evaluation
<ogra_> pmcgowan, sure
<ogra_> but we had stable with the last release already
<pmcgowan> yeah I never upderstood that either
<pmcgowan> seemed to confuse people, why they didnt see the new stuff
<stgraber> ogra_: so copy 297 as 300 right?
<ogra_> yep
<mandel> sergiusens, you need to take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/nuntium/decode-cli-writes/+merge/215786 too
<mhall119> bfiller_afk: is contact syncing working? I don't seem to have anything coming in
<stgraber> ogra_: done
<ogra_> pmcgowan, well, eventually i would expexct us to actually use stable regulary ...
<sergiusens> mandel: yeah, already made my comments on that one over irc :-P
<ogra_> once we actually are stable and feature complete
<mandel> sergiusens, buuuu add them in the mp
<mandel> sergiusens, mainly so that people know it :)
<ogra_> pmcgowan,  i dont think it does any harm to already have it and test upgrades from stable to stable etc etc
<sergiusens> mandel: I can't multitask, I'm blocked waiting for your approval on another MR ;)
<pmcgowan> ogra_, agreed that part is valuable looking forward
<mandel> sergiusens, which mr?
<mandel> sergiusens, have I missed one?
<sergiusens> mandel: https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/goget-ubuntu-touch/space-errors/+merge/216154
<sergiusens> mandel: still says needs information ;-)
<sergiusens> not sure why :-P
<mandel> sergiusens, done
<mhall119> is there a way for an app to tell the OSK not to use predictive/corrective helpers?
<pmcgowan> mhall119, yes there is a hint to set
<pmcgowan> on the textfield
<ogra_> we should set it for the terminal app
<ogra_> so it doesnt print your sudo password (or ssh) inverse on the screen :)
<pmcgowan> mhall119, ogra_ wonder if the default is backwards, do you usually want it or not
<pmcgowan> I find it in the way a lot
<ogra_> i like having suggestions ... i dont like having them applied automatic in any form
<ogra_> (not even the "line starts capitalized" one)
<mhall119> pmcgowan: ogra_: it looks like for the terminal we have to do it in the C++ plugin
<ogra_> well, probably people want it ... we should just make sure that password prompt input gets respected
<ogra_> and not printed ...
<mhall119> I don't think anybody wants it for terminal
<ogra_> depends o the suggestions
<mhall119> it breaks double-tap tab completion
<ogra_> double-tap tab completion ??
 * ogra_ checks 
<mhall119> did you not know about this?
<ogra_> wow !
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> thats extremely cool !
<mhall119> it is, until the helpful keyboard breaks it
<stgraber> ogra_, asac, slangasek: confirmed that the stable channel is now a separate manually managed channel, renumbering was done and I confirmed a mako on stable 101 upgraded to stable 10 succesfuly
<slangasek> stgraber: cheers
<stgraber> (well, not really upgraded since they are technically the exact same issue, but whatever, it thought it did an upgrade :))
 * ogra_ hugs stgraber 
<daker> 6 months later and the camera button is still disable, i can't record videos :(
<daker> disabled*
<asac> stgraber: is there a way we could get tomorrow QA do a final validationm run of doing that upgrade?
<stgraber> asac: probably not since the old stable channel no longer exists. If they have a device around that's on stable at build 101, then yes they can
<stgraber> when we're resetting a channel, it's kinda hard to do QA on that after the fact
<asac> ok
<asac> stgraber: we kind of have the old stable still in form of saucy though, right?
<asac> so might be as simple as install saucy, hacmk config to spoof that it was coming from stable
<asac> and upgrade?
<stgraber> sure, you can do that, except that the result will be pointless
<asac> really? :)
<stgraber> because that's upgrading from one channel to another which we know works properly
<asac> must be at least half a point to it :P
<asac> lol
<stgraber> the tricky part is upgrading from a channel to itself with a lower version
<stgraber> which is a completely different code path
<stgraber> (and one that required me to make two server side changes to get right)
<asac> stgraber: ok, you feel confident that we have covered our backs enough? If so, i guess just stay around tomorrow and lets hope for best
<stgraber> asac: I have unit tests on the server side code and I did the end to end testing on an entirely wiped mako here, running the upgrade in debug mode to make sure everything went right, so I'm pretty sure it's good
<sergiusens> stgraber or ogra_ https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/goget-ubuntu-touch/channels/+merge/216195
<sergiusens> please :-)
<ogra_> done
<sergiusens> ogra_: links made me forget :-/
<mhall119> olli_: https://code.launchpad.net/~ories/ubuntu-terminal-app/unity8_preview_fix/+merge/216171 needs a commit message to land
<mhall119> bzoltan: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7263391/ I'm getting this now trying to build Trojita for armhf, it was working before but today I had to add a "Kit" and it won't build it anymore
<elopio> tedg: ping
<elopio> Qt.openUrlExternally("settings:///system/online-accounts") will call url-dispatcher through dbus?
<tedg> elopio, On touch, yes.
<elopio> tedg: what will happen on desktop?
<tedg> elopio, It'll call xdg-open and probably nothing good will happen :-)
<elopio> tedg: ok, so the 'nothing good' I'm seeing is expected :)
<elopio> thanks.
<tedg> Heh, yes, just the expected amount of evil. Nothing more, nothing less. :-)
<dobey> tedg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6X9KcrXHwg
<tedg> heh
<kyleN> Hi. I noticed the .zip file for the flo device is not present on cdimages, yet it is for the other device types. And the touch/install wiki says you need the zip file. http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/
<kyleN> anyone know why?
<dobey> no idea
<dobey> but 2014/04/16 16:22:37 Device grouper not found on server https://system-image.ubuntu.com channel trusty-proposed
<dobey> :(
<kyleN> dobey, is that because grouper is no longer a target device?
<dobey> and trying to flash just trusty instead of -proposed is giving me image 294
<dobey> kyleN: i doubt it. it worked fine yesterday when i flashed
<kyleN> hmm
<dobey> and flashing just trusty works, but it's only 294, not 299
<kyleN> pmcgowan, do you know who can straighten out these two questions?
<ogra_> dobey, yes, it was finally dropped
<dobey> ogra_: then why does --channel trusty work?
<dobey> sigh :(
<ogra_> kyleN, we dont produce zips since we switched to android 4.4 quite a while ago
<pmcgowan> kyleN, grouper and maguro officially met their demise
<ogra_> dobey, thats the very last image ... we didnt want to drop it without keeping at least one image around ... same for maguro
<kyleN> thx guys
<dobey> well fml
<ogra_> grouper is at 250 iirc and magureo at 188
<dobey> time to flash it back to android i guesa and resotre it to original nexus status, and hopefully sell it for at least half what i paid for it :(
<ogra_> well, have your manager get you a flo
<dobey> no, grouper is at 294 on "trusty" anyway
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> i forgot when i promoted the last one
<dobey> irony is that flo wasn't supported when i got the n7
<mhall119> does grouper 294 work well with mir, or does it still need surfaceflinger?
<ogra_> yeah
<dobey> so i bought a flo, and couldn't flash it, so i had to return it and buy a grouper :(
<ogra_> mhall119, if it would, it wouldnt work :)
<ogra_> mhall119, SF support got dropped completely a while ago
<mhall119> hmmm, last time I had it on my grouper with mir it had that annoying flashing bug that made it unusable
<ogra_> that was fixed
<dobey> that was a long time ago
<ogra_> Mir should "work"
<mhall119> ah, cool, will flash again to 294 before my release party
<dobey> it "works" on grouper
<ogra_> nit actually performant but "work"
<dobey> some things just freeze quite often
<mhall119> everything in grouper has scare-quotes around it, I know
<ogra_> :)
<kyleN> ogra_, the touch/install wiki section on manual install says you need the zip. Since we don't need it, it is correct to say all you need to do is fastboot flash the three image files and reboot?
<ogra_> use flo :)
<kyleN> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<mhall119> which is a shame, because Android runs pretty well on that hardware
<mhall119> ogra_: you going to send me one?
<dobey> ogra_: which we'll also stop supporting in another 6 months, i'm sure :(
<ogra_> kyleN, yeah, manual doesnt really work anymore ... we need to replace that bit ... nobody had time to work out something new
<daker> mardy: hey i am trying to add a facebook account, i am getting this :( http://i.imgur.com/2StMCGe.png
<mhall119> dobey: a lot can change in 6 months, look where we were in October
<ogra_> dobey, depends ...
<kyleN> ogra, I am replacing it now if it has value. does it?
<dobey> mhall119: my workstation has been running just fine for over 2 years :)
<ogra_> kyleN, well, my rootstock-ng instructions from the mailing list should essentially replace it
<mhall119> dobey: we can fix that
<ogra_> i think thats the baes in the direction of a manual install we can offer still
<kyleN> ogra seems then like it is outdated and not needed
<ogra_> *best
<kyleN> (why bother with a manual install...)
<ogra_> people doing image development might want to
<ogra_> and porters
<ogra_> i'll try to find some time tomorrow and work out a proper manual section
<kyleN> ok, thanks ogra
<ogra_> np, thanks for pointing it out, i had forgotten abou it
<dobey> mhall119: i'm sure the kids dying in africa from lead poisoning from disassembling electronis for "recycling" will love you for it :)
<mhall119> well, that escalated quickly
<dobey> it's too bad all the phone makers seem to have decided to become laptop makers instead, all at the same time
<canarias> i just heard about ubuntu for android today, is it out yet? im dying to test it. seems so superior
<popey> nope
<canarias> only first stage tests
<canarias> any eta on when a stable release will be available for download?
<ogra_> ubuntu for android would have to be released by a phone manufacturer ... it requires deep changes in android
<ogra_> and i doubt any such thing will happen in the near future
<canarias> can always flash the phone myself like u do with a rooted device
<ogra_> meanwhile you could install Ubuntu for Phones though ... if you have a nexus device ... or wait for teeh second half of the year where actual phones with ubuntu preinstalled will be released
<ogra_> but ubuntu for android requires vendor partnership that doesnt exist atm yet
<mhall119> dobey: phones are laptops, laptops are phones...if only *somebody* had one OS that would work on both!
<Beldar> oh......the irony
<dobey> mhall119: if only manufactures didn't make phones the same size as my laptop
<mhall119> dobey: I'm right with you, The Galaxy Note 3 has almost the same screen size as my first netbook :(
<mhall119> in actual size, not pixels, in pixels is like 4x or higher
<dobey> the nexus 5 actually looks really nice, it's just 1.5" too big
<mhall119> how big is it? I find the Nexus 4 just a tiny bit too big at the corners
<mhall119> everything else I can reach with my thumb one-handed
<mhall119> the Edge prototype felt perfect, IMO
<dobey> n5 is bigger than the n4
<dobey> it has a 5" screen after all
<ubuntuPuzzler> Is anyone here???
<ubuntuPuzzler> Hello??!?!??!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?
<olli_> mhall119, how do I fix it
<olli_> mhall119, popey, nik90 fixed
<olli_> ^commit msgs that is
<doflah> after updating r250 -> r294, System Settings crashes when checking for updates.  I have the same problem with r296 and r299
#ubuntu-touch 2014-04-17
<mhall119> rickspencer3: ^^ did you find a solution to that?
<a_muva__> Is it me, or browser started to render pages strangely? I think the old way was much better.
<rickspencer3> mhall119, yes, I had to delete and readd my U1 account
<mhall119> doflah: ^^
<doflah> is there a known cause or is it worth me debugging a little bit?
<mhall119> don't know that much, sorry
<rickspencer3> doflah, there is a known cause, and I believe it is fixed or the fix is in flight
<rickspencer3> aiui there is a line of code that crashes when there is not a valid U1 account rather than doing something sensible
<doflah> oh, hey, that works
<doflah> thanks!
<rickspencer3> doflah, no worries :)
<guyWhoNeedsHelpW> hello?
<nhaines> !question
<ubot5> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<Aki-Thinkpad> Can I do this without an id: ?
<Aki-Thinkpad> 					Button{id: zero; width: 40; text: "0"; onClicked: textArea.insert(0, zero.text) }
<Aki-Thinkpad> nevermind; this.text...
<Aki-Thinkpad> I thought I tried that :P
<smulverine> Hi all.  If I bought a Meizu MX3 now, would it be possible to install an image of Ubuntu at a later stage?
<nhaines> smulverine: nobody knows.
<Aki-Thinkpad> smulverine, anything is "Possible"
<smulverine> Aki-Thinkpad: thanks, but thing is: my current phone is falling to bits.
<Aki-Thinkpad> smulverine, have you tried yelling at it?
<smulverine> Aki-Thinkpad: yeah sure :-)
<Aki-Thinkpad> and it isn't listening?
<Aki-Thinkpad> shucks
<Aki-Thinkpad> besides spitting on it, I don't know what else you could try
<smulverine> For some reason it doesn't seem to make any difference
<Aki-Thinkpad> what is this world coming too?
<Aki-Thinkpad> Anyways, i would suggest trying openmoko
<smulverine> Anyway, I'm in the market for a new phone
<Aki-Thinkpad> Egg shaped phones are the future
<smulverine> Scrambled or fried?
<Aki-Thinkpad> devilled
<smulverine> The future looks awesome
<Aki-Thinkpad> I hear they will be able to make phonecalls eventually
<Aki-Thinkpad> ubuntu-touch will not be able to compete
<smulverine> Who in his right mind wants to make phonecalls?
<Aki-Thinkpad> ikr?
<RAOF> smulverine: There's no guarantee that the hardware in the phone released with Ubuntu Touch will be identical to the current MX3; indeed, I seem to recall people saying that the demo models looked like a new revision?
<Aki-Thinkpad> RAOF, Well Canonical has its own design... I would imagine they are still trying to pitch it to people
<smulverine> RAOF: specs of that device really look okay.   I can get one here with 32G for about 3000 HKD, which is tempting.
<smulverine> Since I want to get an Ubuntu phone at some stage anyway
<smulverine> But it would be silly to get an MX3 and not being able to re-flash it to Ubuntu Touch when it is more or less ready for market
<RAOF> Yes; and you can't guarantee that the MX3 you buy now will have the same hardware as the MX3 you will later be able to buy with Ubuntu Touch installed, so if you buy one now there's no guarantee it'll be Touchable (barring community ports)
<smulverine> I see.  Thanks :-)   Guess I'm just gonna get a cheap POS in the meantime then.
<echoe> Is a new build coming out today?
<echoe> Launch time!!
<iahmad> trying to flash latest stable ( build 101) but  ubuntu-device-flash --wipe --bootstrap picks up the build 10, does any one know what I am missing? Until yesterday it was picking up the right build.
<iahmad> ah it seems stable channel on server contains build 10 as the latest.
<RAOF> You probably want the trusty channel?
<iahmad> RAOF, No, I am looking to flash stable (saucy) image to test upgrade to devel (trusty)
<RAOF> Oh.
 * RAOF wonders if we actually test that :)
<dholbach> good morning
<echoe> i wonder if update is working
<nhaines> dholbach: ready for a new release?  :)
<dholbach> hey nhaines - yeah :-D
<nhaines> I'm excited for the new Ubuntu website.  I assume the daily images from yesterday are probably unchanged.  :D
<nhaines> But I do have virtual servers that will be very nice with 14.04 images.  :)
<vars> Hello
<nhaines> vars: hello!
<vars> Great thanks nhaines
<vars> I have a question about the ubuntu phone or touch
<nhaines> !question
<vars> When it will be released like funcional?
<ubot5> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<nhaines> vars: it's been out since October 13.10.
<nhaines> Phones will be available for sale online this year.  Probably during Autumn.
<vars> That's is the answer to the question.  Thanks
<vars>  I can't wait!
<nhaines> It's looking pretty good.  :)
<vars> Indeed, apple will get kicked hehe because this is way more powerful than theirs
<nhaines> It will take a few more apps to get to that point, but it is very, very promising.
<vars> I saw somewhere that two Chinese companies are working on the phones
<nhaines> Meizu is.  The other company we know about, BQ, is Spanish.
<vars> Oh i thought BQ were Chinese as well. Meizu looks really promising
<vars> It's a shame that most of the phones are  being ported the cellular radio is not working except for the nexus line 4 7 and galaxy.  I was hoping to take advantage of my gt-i9300
<vars> Anyway I out for now 4am and tomorrow is other day to work and keep it up.  Thanks for the info,  really appreciate it
<Aki-Thinkpad> hey will ubuntu touch be using f2fs by any chance?
<davmor2> Morning all
<nhaines> davmor2: morning!
<nhaines> Aki-Thinkpad: Ubuntu uses ext4 on phones I believe.
<Aki-Thinkpad> nhaines, doesnt surprise me. ext4 has been surprisingly good
<nhaines> Aki-Thinkpad: it's a good start.  :)
<Aki-Thinkpad> nhaines, Doesn't android use fat32 or something?
<nhaines> Aki-Thinkpad: only for external SD cards.
<Aki-Thinkpad> nhaines, oh yah that's right. of course :P
<t1mp> I cannot flash my device anymore
<Aki-Thinkpad> t1mp, try yelling at it
<Aki-Thinkpad> t1mp, did you brick it?
<t1mp> I'm getting this http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7266842/
<t1mp> Aki-Thinkpad: no I didn't. I see the google logo all the time on the screen, and I can adb into the device
<t1mp> I can reboot it, but while rebooting and after, the google logo stays
<t1mp> it is a mako device
<Aki-Thinkpad> what do you mean, the google logo stays?
<t1mp> Aki-Thinkpad: when you boot the device normally for a short time it shows a google logo
<t1mp> that's what it always shows now
<Aki-Thinkpad> t1mp, can you get to the bootloader?
<t1mp> whois Aki-Thinkpad
<Aki-Thinkpad> lol
<t1mp> heh
<t1mp> :)
<t1mp> let me try
<Aki-Thinkpad> t1mp, ah
<Aki-Thinkpad> t1mp, i am far from expert, but it this just seems like a case of missing fileage
<t1mp> nope, I cannot get into the bootloader
<Aki-Thinkpad> t1mp, you were able to before?
<ogra_> t1mp, how about you do what it asks for ;)
<ogra_> (open another terminal and "adb reboot bootloader")
<t1mp> ogra_: you make it sound so easy :)
<ogra_> haha
<t1mp> thanks, that works. re-flashing now :)
<Aki-Thinkpad> t1mp, I remember when I first gave my hand at all this business... Decided waiting for BQ and Meizu was better :P
<tsdgeos> popey: ping
<popey> tsdgeos: yo
<tsdgeos> popey: that qmlscene crash you have? how do i reproduce it?
<popey> which?
<popey> the one with the bar?
<tsdgeos> popey: the one in ubuntu-calendar-app
<popey> sorry, are we talking about a bug?
<popey> i have a lot of crashes around the place, dunno which one you mean â»
<tsdgeos> popey: https://code.launchpad.net/~pkunal-parmar/ubuntu-calendar-app/CalManagement/+merge/213355
<tsdgeos> popey: we are talking about an email i've been cc'ed to
<popey> ah that one.
<popey> sorry, sent that mail at 2am
<popey> so the fail is happening on jenkins infra.
<popey> 91.189.93.70:8080/job/generic-mediumtests-trusty/2150/testReport/calendar_app.tests.test_yearview/TestYearView/test_selecting_a_month_switch_to_month_view_with_mouse_/
<popey> if you follow the "failed" links from the bottom of that merge
<tsdgeos> ok, yes, clicking on week crashes
 * tsdgeos has a huge dejavu
<popey> The "looks like qmlscene crashed" was a comment from fginther last night
<popey> heh
<tsdgeos> i already fixed this
<popey> jono mentioned on his device he had the app crash clicking week view too
<popey> but I couldn't reproduce it on my device
<tsdgeos> crashes on desktop
<popey> and he didnt mention it again.. seems intermittent
<popey> right, those AP tests are on desktop.
<popey> and yeah, if it crashes during tests we can't land fixes, so a priority for me.
<tsdgeos> well qmlscene crashing is bad for everyone
<popey> Indeed.
 * tsdgeos tries to remember what is the crash bug he fixed in ubuntu-calendar-app
<tsdgeos> so it was https://codereview.qt-project.org/#patch,all_unified,81454,3
<tsdgeos> let me see if we distropatched that or not
<tsdgeos> no we have not
<tsdgeos> that's weird
<tsdgeos> ah yes, we do have it
<tsdgeos> so then it's not that
<omidh> Can I use ubuntu touch alongside with android?
<nhaines> omidh: maybe, on a development phone.  Not on an official phone.  Which don't exist yet.
<tsdgeos> Mirv: you there?
<tsdgeos> popey: so it seems an upstream qtpim bug to me, my analisis brought me to do https://codereview.qt-project.org/#change,83696
<tsdgeos> let's see what upstream say
<popey> ok
<rickspencer3> didrocks, another promoted image?
<rickspencer3> \o/
<didrocks> rickspencer3: the one from yesterday? Yeah ;) we just got #302 built, which is the candidate to go to the stable channel
<rickspencer3> nice
<didrocks> rickspencer3: like, the image appeared 3 minutes ago :)
<didrocks> testing the hell out of it as we speak
<rickspencer3> wow
<didrocks> oxide/webapps fixes + some apps crashing which get unity8 to shut down
<rickspencer3> didrocks, if I update my tablet that is on devel-proposed I'll get it?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: yeah, please do!
<didrocks> the more testing, the best
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> here we go
<didrocks> thanks, keep us posted if anything!
<rickspencer3> I love how updates are so small
<rickspencer3> image-based-updates are *so* cool
<didrocks> indeed, way better than download 400MB ;)
<rickspencer3> stgraber, you guys really outdid yourselves with the image-based-updates, an amazing invention
<rickspencer3> didrocks, any particular areas you want me to look at other than web apps?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: try to launch/close apps (click, webapps, qml/native)
<didrocks> it's what was randomly getting unity8 to go down
 * rickspencer3 installs g+ app
<rickspencer3> didrocks, ok
<didrocks> thanks ;)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, so far I am having no issues launching apps from the apps scope and closing them, is there something I should be doing to stress it?
<ogra_> open moar apps
<ogra_> :)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: what ogra told, it was pretty random ;)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: we did the same as well with the package
<didrocks> (and do the same as we speak)
<rickspencer3> ogra_, like open a whole bunch of apps?
<didrocks> nothing as of now
<ogra_> yeah
<didrocks> rickspencer3: well, don't hit the oom killer
<didrocks> remember that we are not robust against it yet
<ogra_> well, the apps do
<rickspencer3> didrocks, don't have to remind me :)
<didrocks> better to warn than worry :p
<ogra_> and they should
<ogra_> (they need to learn to restart a lot faster when they hit OOM though ... )
<rickspencer3> didrocks, oh, I meant I've run into issue here and there when I have too many apps open
<rickspencer3> ogra_, yeah, we have a lot of work to do with that part of the app lifecycle
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> oe of the criticsl remaining bits
<ogra_> *one
 * ogra_ needs a typing course 
<rickspencer3> :)
<didrocks> ogra_: expense it! :)
 * ogra_ is pleased to see 300+ people in #ubuntu-release-party 
<ogra_> we surely had lots and lots more in the past, but 300 is a good amount at least ... i was worried there would be a lot less
<rickspencer3> ogra_, didrocks I opened 7 apps
<rickspencer3> I used the right edge to switch between them
<rickspencer3> I closed them all
<rickspencer3> no issues
<rickspencer3> I ran g+ web app
<ogra_> awesome
<rickspencer3> I used external links
<rickspencer3> no issues
<didrocks> \o/
<ogra_> yay
<didrocks> "\o/"*302 actually ;)
 * ogra_ loves how usable everything got this cycle 
<rickspencer3> I can't wait for unity rotation so I can use my Nexus 7 fully
 * didrocks didn't spot anything in a quick check of "sensible" areas :)
<rickspencer3> side stage and all
<didrocks> s/sensible/sensitive/
<ogra_> now a functional pdf reader and trojita being finished are the two last blockers for me to fully switch
<didrocks> ogra_: we have v8! use a js pdf reader ;)
<ogra_> hmm, i coud ltry that ...
<ogra_> or write an app :)
<ogra_> which reminds me ...
<rickspencer3> ogra_, in the meantime, you could use calibre to export your pdf as epub, and read it in the ebook ready
 * ogra_ has 15 new apps to uplaod to the store today
<ogra_> rickspencer3, except that i want some features ... like cutting off edges, night mode ... being able to block rotation
<rickspencer3> didrocks, so, from my very limited usage of the my tablet this morning, the current devel-proposed image looks good
<rickspencer3> ogra_, you better cracking writing that app!
<rickspencer3> lol
<didrocks> rickspencer3: yeah, same here, confirming what we got on #301 + installing the packages while they were getting published
<ogra_> rickspencer3, over easter :)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: he needs typing course first! ;)
<rickspencer3> ogra_, lol
<ogra_> i dont get what happened to our document viewer app
<rickspencer3> now we need to get those scopes performance tweaks
<ogra_> i thought it was ready and just waiting for the content-hub
<rickspencer3> ogra_, could be
<rickspencer3> wow, what a cycle
<ogra_> yeah
<didrocks> already got one scope perf tweak in #301. It's a little bit better
<ogra_> cant wait to see 14.10 :)
<rickspencer3> 14.04 LTS, Tablet 1.0, so much phone improvement
<ogra_> by then it should be perfect
<dia> is ubuntu touch not being worked on for nexus 7 anymore?
<ogra_> dlan, for the 2013 model only
<ogra_> (was announced 4 months ago)
<dia> I have not even been touching linux in... months :(
<dia> but i just bought the 2nd gen nexus 7 ;) and android is limited
<ogra_> well, the second gen works pretty well here
<dia> are you running with it now?
<tordemus> bros, i saw some news about relise date of ubuntu touch on 17.04's is it lie? I'dont get it =)
 * ogra_ is happinly using ubuntu touch here 
<ogra_> and there will be a release today
<tordemus> omg omg =) thanks, we're waiting  =)
<ogra_> phones with ubuntu preinstalled will be around in the second half of the year
<ogra_> (note that the release today is still not fully feature complete ... but it already works well as a daily driver)
<tordemus> Nope, im mostly worrying about nexus devices =) and thanks for answer one more time!
<mamenyaka> hi! which branch should I use for my port? is 4.4.2 only for the nexus5?
<ogra_> no, its for all supported devices
<mamenyaka> and do I use cm-11.0 repos wth it?
<mamenyaka> or why is it aosp only?
<ogra_> that branch is aosp only i think
<mamenyaka> yes
<ogra_> if you got a cm branch it might need extra steps to port it
<mamenyaka> wont there be a cm based 4.4.2 branch?
<ogra_> nope
<mamenyaka> okay, thank you
<ogra_> (well, not sure, probably rsalveti wants to update the old cm branch at some point in his spare time)
<ogra_> but there are no official plans for it atm
<mamenyaka> is there any up to date documentation on the current status?
<mamenyaka> is the porting guide still relevant?
<ogra_> semi relevant ...
<ogra_> urgently needs to be updated
<mamenyaka> looking forward to it
<Saviq> bregma, really sorry for the indicator fail... I completely agree with you the process is/was broken
<bregma> Saviq, all it means is we need to fix our processes in the next cycle and fail better next time
<Saviq> bregma, indeed
<Saviq> bregma, fwiw, fix is in silo 001 if you could verify
<Saviq> brb
<bregma> hopefully my internets will stay up long enough today...
<nhaines> Who's in charge of the Ubuntu Touch section of the 14.04 LTS release notes?  I have a formatting suggstion.
<ogra_> nhaines, perhaps bregma knows
<nhaines> bregma: in the "What's new?" section, "Tablet and Phone form factors supported" is bold and concatenated with the feature blurb, but it should probably be regular, all caps, and on its own line.
<nhaines> ogra_: well so much for that, eh? :)
<ogra_> :)
<nhaines> I can happily fix it, but don't want to step on toes while everyone's rushing about.
<popey> nhaines: i dont think its a problem fixing formatting issues
<ogra_> nhaines, make sure to coordinate in #ubuntu-release, then you should be fine
<nhaines> Thanks guys.  All fixed now.
<nhaines> It was a markup issue anyway, so I just swapped some ''s and ='s and all set.  :)
<mamenyaka> if I have an error that says: linux/msm_mdp.h: no such file or dir, but I looked and there is a file in the kernel includes; what should I do?
<popey> tsdgeos: could you pop in #ubuntu-touch-meeting pls?
<bregma> Saviq, despite the conspiracy of my internet provider, I have verified your fix
<Saviq> bregma, great, it's transitioning to release pocket already I believe
<bregma> Saviq, I think we need to make it a thing this cycle to try to merge the updastart jobs for desktop and phablet maybe
<Saviq> bregma, definitely
<Saviq> bregma, the sessions, too, really
<Saviq> bregma, there should be no diff between desktop and phone unity8 on Mir sessions
<Saviq> ideally, that is
<bregma> there's a lot of cruft required for the desktop still, but that is a wrinkle that needs to be ironed out
<bregma> much of it to do with autodetection of devices or back ends
<rickspencer3> pmcgowan, so, my phone is "frozen"
<rickspencer3> I adb shelled in and ran top
<rickspencer3> dialer app is > 100% cpu utilization
<ogra_> ans see apport :)
<rickspencer3> thoughts?
<ogra_> oh
<rickspencer3> ogra_, not apport this time :)
<rickspencer3> at least not yet :)
<ogra_> yeah, it might take over
<rickspencer3> ogra_, should I just reboot, or is there something I can do to help debug?
<rickspencer3> I need to run authenticator so I can get into my email :)
<ogra_> i guess just reboot and see if it happens again
<rickspencer3> k
<rickspencer3> I hope that wasn't 'cause I was receiving a call
 * ogra_ too
<rickspencer3> ogra_, could it be because I received a call while my screen was blanked?
<rickspencer3> (though I have received other calls and texts without problem recently)
<ogra_> rickspencer3, i think that works because it forcefully wakes up the screen
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rsalveti> guess it'd be nice to get the output of strace and gdb bt when you get that 100% loop consumption
<rsalveti> otherwise hard to tell what is wrong, if we don't have a crash file
<popey> tsdgeos: my qtpim build barfed but looks like it built okay? https://launchpad.net/~popey/+archive/qtpim/+build/5916407
<ogra_> rsalveti, btw, my music plays on if i blank the screen and play from a webapp ... i dont think it should, should it ?
<tsdgeos> popey: i'm far from a launchpad expert tbh :D
<popey> heh
<popey> Welcome to my world.
<tsdgeos> :D
<tsdgeos> popey: but yes it seems it built fine, no idea where one can find the debs thought
<popey> oh, failed to upload
<popey> not failed to build
<tsdgeos> yeah
<popey> so probably release releated stuff ate bandwidth or some other handwavy reason
<rsalveti> ogra_: it shouldn't
<rsalveti> ogra_: which website?
<popey> I wont chase that, I'll wait till the release is out of the way and retry, thanks
<ogra_> rsalveti, install laut.fm ... tap play .. let the screen suspend ... it stutters a bit but plays on
<ogra_> rsalveti, i assume the suid root processes somehow circumvent the block
<rsalveti> maybe the sigstop is not getting to the app
<rsalveti> which is kind of a big issue
<ogra_> it gets to the app but not the renderer i guess
<ogra_> jdstrand, chrisccoulson ^^^
<olli> popey, nik90 thx for your help yday!
<popey> np
<olli> +whoever else helped
<nik90> olli: np thnx for the MPs
<olli> nik90, thx for giving me a bzr crash course ;)
<nik90> olli: hehe
<chrisccoulson> ogra_, it works fine as long as the SIGSTOP is sent to the process group
<ogra_> chright, thats not working
<Saviq> bregma, I was wondering... we have respawn in the unity8 jobs, what's the plan for stopping the session? should we just "initctl stop" on exit?
 * Saviq would rather have a way to say "initctl no-respawn"
<Saviq> 'cause stop would send SIGTERM to us straight away
<bregma> Saviq, there's work going on to get proper session management in using, I dunno, upstart or logind or something appropriate (not my area of expertise)
<Laney> I think you can make respawn happening with a 'stop on ...' condition
<Laney> doesn't seem ideal though
<Saviq> bregma, kk
<Laney> respawn *stop* happening
<Laney> a respawn non-clean-exit-only would be nice
<ogra_> you could use a second job for that
<Laney> If you're doing hacks, then 'stop on exit-unity8' and emit that when cleanly shutdown should work
<Laney> just saying, maybe upstart could support this properly
<ogra_> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#run-a-job-only-if-one-job-succeeds-and-another-fails
<ogra_> something knitted around that
<Laney> why
<ogra_> dunno, just saying there are capablilities to do it from a second job if respawn fails
<Laney> I was giving the actual way to stop respawn respawning
<omkar_> is ubuntu-touch 14.04 is going to released today ?
<Laney> i.e. make 'stop on' become satisfied
<ogra_> omkar_, yes
<omkar_> my device is not supported for ubuntu touch but fulfills hardware specification .. so how can I install ubuntu touch in my device (my device : Celkon ML5)
<ogra_> you would have to do a port ... for that you need the android sources and some knowledge
<omkar_> where can I get that information ?
<rsalveti> ogra_: hm, laut.fm here is just blank for me
<ogra_> oh ?
<rsalveti> desktop is fine though
<ogra_> i used it today on all three devices with 302
<rsalveti> let me reboot this thing
<rsalveti> ogra_: tried via browser or webapp?
<ogra_> webapp
<ogra_> i updated all my apps (lautfm is one) last night and tested them on todays latest image
<rsalveti> right, was opening the website using the browser directly
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> i didnt try that, but its probably behaving the same
<rsalveti> the store search is kind of bad
<rsalveti> can't find anything with 'lau'
<rsalveti> but laut works
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> probably its just slow
<rsalveti> ogra_: working now, there's some weird german voice here
<ogra_> yeah, they plkay one ad before the music stream starts
<ogra_> now let it blank
<mhr3> mandel, ping?
<rsalveti> ogra_: lol, interesting bug
<rsalveti> ogra_: it works fine if you get back to the app lens
<rsalveti> it stops after a few seconds
<ogra_> stutters a bit and then it plays on in chunks
<rsalveti> but if you press power when it's in foreground, it keeps working
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> we *definitely* need to look into lifecycle again :)
<rsalveti> so it might be a bug in our app life cycle here
<ogra_> and think about cgroups too
<rsalveti> right, but I don't think we're sending sigstop to the foreground app
<rsalveti> we're just trying to suspend
<rsalveti> that's why the audio is kind of broken
<ogra_> oh, lol
<ogra_> yeah
 * ogra_ didnt think about that ... 
<rsalveti> so if you have someone holding a suspend blocker or such, it'll work just fine
<rsalveti> as long you're not sending it to the background
<ogra_> well, kind of
<davmor2> ogra_: I blame you entirely for all of this :D
<ogra_> it is very stuttery
<rsalveti> but that's because it's trying to suspend
<rsalveti> let me hold a suspend blocker
<ogra_> davmor2, yeah, i'll take the blame as long as i can play music while the screen is off :)
<rsalveti> ogra_: yeah, open a shell, and then run powerd-cli active
<rsalveti> ogra_: and try suspending the device, the audio will be fine
<ogra_> yeah
<davmor2> ogra_: media-hub should make it all better once the qt eventloop is fixed and webapps integrate with media-hub
<ogra_> davmor2, sadly not for webapps
<ogra_> (they will integrate eventually with it ... but thats still a long way)
<davmor2> ogra_: and then it will be better till then disable sleep and leave you device plugged in :)
<ogra_> :)
<jdstrand> so, I'm trying to update to r299 on mako via system settings, but keep coming to a signature error
<jdstrand> this was working well for a long time, but recently I used the command line to change channels to devel-proposed and then again back to devel
<jdstrand> both of those flashes went fine, but it seems like I haven't been able to update via System Settings since then. it might be unrelated
<ogra_> jdstrand, thats a barry thing i guess
<jdstrand> hmm, and he isn't in here
<jdstrand> oh weird, I changed to wifi and now it worked
<jdstrand> ok, need some more data befre I bug anyone
<ogra_> oh yeah, check the setting
<olli> Saviq, do you have an update on the logout bug for U8/preview?
<Joe_Schmo> Whats up guys?
<rymate1234> what's the device requirements for ubuntu touch?
<rymate1234> as in hardware, not phone model
<Saviq> olli, we've got the branches, will review early tomorrow and land tomorrow I hope
<olli> Saviq, th
<olli> x
<echoe> my version is 250 but it isn't saying that I have an update, do I need to reflash my phone to get the latest one?
<ogra_> echoe, what device
<echoe> nexus 4
<ogra_> and what channel do you use ?
<ogra_> devel should be on 302 now
<echoe> i was using the standard one in the ubuntu main page install :P is it not updated yet?
<ogra_> (as is devel-proposed ... and the same image will get soon released to the stable channel)
<ogra_> it is, your system-settings app should show it
<echoe> it doesn't
<echoe> weird.
<Farsch> I discovered Ubuntu Touch just in the last 5 mins.
<Farsch> Can it work on every Android device?
<Farsch> The Ubuntu.com website doesn't mention any details at all.
<lotuspsychje> Farsch: check topic for the devices supported
<Farsch> Ok.
<Farsch> lotuspsychje: This URL answers my question: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<Farsch> lotuspsychje: It's not in the topic.
<Farsch> "B&N Nook Tablet"
<Farsch> My friend!
<Farsch> E-paper PC!
<Farsch> :D
<genii> Hi, any known issues with 302 from ubuntu-touch/trusty on mako? I'm running ubuntu-device-flash right now
<ogra_> genii, nothing earth shattering ... there are some ... they will be in the relase notes (302 will be 14.04)
<ogra_> (14.04 stable that is)
<genii> ogra_: Thanks, reading now :)
<genii> ogra_: Actually, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes only has 13.10 release notes
<ogra_> genii, yep, not released yet ... should happen soon
 * genii makes more coffee and waits
<niemeyer> Hey
<niemeyer> Does anyone have a pointer towards where the --desktop_file_hint magic is implemented?
<niemeyer> I was expecting it to be provided through the QApplication arguments, but that's not working
<stgraber> ogra_: my mako just upgraded from saucy to trusty on the stable channel, so looks like we're good
<ogra_> yay \o/
<ogra_> stgraber, thanks for everything !
<pmcgowan> tedg, see niemeyer query ^^
<tedg> niemeyer, That's being removedâ¦
<niemeyer> pmcgowan: Thanks
<niemeyer> tedg: Oh
<tedg> niemeyer, as far as parsing it, that was done in unity-mir
<tedg> But it was mostly for legacy SF support
<niemeyer> tedg: How will it work instead?
<tedg> niemeyer, How will what work?
<niemeyer> tedg: I suppose the .desktop path was useful somehow?
<tedg> niemeyer, Well we are identifying applications by appid. We were getting that out of the exec by parsing the command line, but that's a hack as apps can adjust their own cmdline.
<tedg> niemeyer, No we start the application by appid, so we have it all the way through and give that to unity-mir to authorize surfaces for the app.
<tedg> now
<niemeyer> tedg: Ah, that's much nicer indeed
<niemeyer> tedg: Assuming we don't have an --app_id_hint parameter :-)
<tedg> Heh, no, we don't :-)
<niemeyer> APP_ID env, right?
<tedg> That exists because upstart sets it, but it's not used by Mir.
<Farsch> "The PPA has the tools and dependencies to support Precise, Quantal, Raring and Saucy."
<tedg> I think some of the SDK libs also use it.
<Farsch> What is PPA? What is Precise, Quantal, Raring and Saucy? Please use understandable language in manuals. It's not like every educated person knows what Precise, Quantal, Raring and Saucy are.
<niemeyer> tedg: How does it figure the app id then?
<tedg> niemeyer, How does what figure out the app id?
<niemeyer> <tedg> niemeyer, No we start the application by appid,
<niemeyer> tedg: Whoever is "we" in that sentence
<tedg> Well, we is a bunch of different things there.
<tedg> If it's URL dispatcher it's figured out by registering the URL format. That registration is by app id.
<tedg> So if you register "foo:///" for your application we know that "com.foo_foo_123" is the app id for all urls that are "foo://"
<tedg> If it's something like the click scope it knows because it's looking at the click packages, and those generate the app ids themselves.
<niemeyer> Okay, but how does that get into the process that is running?
<Farsch> I don't understand https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install. What is my fault here?
<niemeyer> tedg: I want to run a command from the terminal, how will mir know the app id?
<popey> Farsch: I'll edit that
<kenvandine> niemeyer, run it with upstart-app-launch
<Farsch> popey: cool
<tedg> niemeyer, You can't run a command directly from the terminal, you need to pass the appid to upstart-app-launch to start the process for you, so it knows the appid before the process starts.
<tedg> Would be interesting to have the terminal set up it's own trusted session so things could just overlay on top of it. But that's future work :-)
<niemeyer> tedg, kenvandine: Okay, and then what goes with the process to authenticate that session?
<kenvandine> upstart does that for you
<tedg> niemeyer, Nothing goes with the process really, we tell Mir that it's coming and it sets up and gets ready for your PID to connect. So we preauthorize that PID.
<niemeyer> tedg: Okay, so it's based on the process pid.. interesting
<tedg> PID and app id.
<tedg> We tie the two together.
<tedg> Eventually it'll be the cgroup that we put your PID in. But that's not there yet.
<popey> Farsch: ok, fixed. let me know if there's any other obscure instructions. It was written mostly by developers for developers.
<niemeyer> tedg: Well, if the process doesn't have an app id anywhere, it cannot use that I suppsoe
<Farsch> popey :)
<tedg> niemeyer, Well, you can "create" an appid several ways. Making a small click package with the utility. Or putting a desktop file in ~/.local/share/applications/foo.desktop that points to your exe.
<niemeyer> tedg: Yeah, sorry, I understand the idea is to have it all handled for developers.. but I'm sitting on one of the layers people will use to get there.. it's useful to understand what's under the table to avoid surprises
<niemeyer> tedg: Making a click package doesn't magically provide an app id to an in memory process, for example
<tedg> niemeyer, Sure, no problem. I'm recommending to the QtCreator folks to just create a click package on "deploy" reason being that it's easy to roll back.
<niemeyer> tedg: There must be something more interesting, lower level, going on for a process to be able to access a privileged channel
<niemeyer> tedg: yeah, that's a good idea.. but there's something about people being able to login into the terminal and seeing their application working interactively that I wouldn't like to let go, if we can
<tedg> Not quite sure how you'd already be in memory.
<niemeyer> tedg: Well, being in memory is just a matter of executing a process..
<niemeyer> tedg: and that does happen, whatever the mechanism
<kenvandine> but that happens at the end
<kenvandine> after upstart does it's magic
<kenvandine> which is very magical :)
<niemeyer> tedg: If that process does not carry any privileged information *knowingly* (as in, being coded there), there must be something in the environment that provides that privilege
<niemeyer> tedg: Which is what I am trying to understand
<tedg> Correct, the upstart jobs provide a dance with unity-mir to setup the situation.
<tedg> Then there's an upstart job that "is" the application at that point.
<tedg> For instance, run a bunch of apps on your device and then do "initctl list"
<tedg> You'll see all of the applications there.
<niemeyer> tedg: Sure, that's a list of jobs, some of them with processes attached to them
<tedg> Well all applications are instances of the application job.
<tedg> So every instance has a process by definition.
<niemeyer> tedg: click-user-hooks stop/waiting
<niemeyer> tedg: This one does not, I suppose?
<tedg> No, that's not an app. That's the click user hooks to execute when the user session starts.
<tedg> The jobs are application-click and application-legacy
<niemeyer> tedg: Okay, I really don't get what you mean by that
<tedg> niemeyer, Start an application on your device then do "initctl list | grep application"
<niemeyer> tedg: Yep, shows nothing
<tedg> niemeyer, Are you root or the phablet?
<niemeyer> tedg: Ah, yes
<niemeyer> tedg: OKay, that works
<niemeyer> I mean, not being root
<niemeyer> Aha
<niemeyer> env APP_ID
<niemeyer> # For Surface Flinger
<niemeyer> env APP_DESKTOP_FILE
<niemeyer> exec @pkglibexecdir@/exec-line-exec
<niemeyer> (from application-legacy.conf)
<cwayne> stgraber: hey, is there a stable-customized channel?
<stgraber> no
<cwayne> so i assume we should just use trusty-customized then?
<niemeyer> tedg, kenvandine: I've digged through upstart-app-launch and things are more clear, thank you
<kenvandine> niemeyer, np
 * tedg is happy to have survived the first round of niemeyer hacking of UAL :-)
<dobey> 2014/04/17 14:34:00 Flashing version 10 from ubuntu-touch/stable channel and server https://system-image.ubuntu.com to device grouper
<dobey> lol
<dobey> ogra_: ^^ maybe taht should be deleted too then eh?
<ogra_> dobey, why ? thats the 13.10 release
<ogra_> use the trusty channel if you want to use the last trusty image
<ogra_> (devel will soon point to U so you need to explicitly use trusty=
<ogra_> )
<dobey> ogra_: well if it's not supported any more, and "stable" is supposed to be trusty now (per the mail from didrocks) it seems weird to get a version that's 300 builds behind
<dobey> ogra_: or stable means different things for different devices now?
<ogra_> it means "not moving"
<dobey> so yes, it means different things for different devices then
<ogra_> well, at some point we will likely flush it and actually have stable stable images in there :)
<ogra_> until then stable just means not moving so press people have something to test etc
<dobey> well, touch doesn't have the same support contract as full ubuntu does it?
<dobey> do we want press people testing build 10, just because they happen to try and flash a 2012 N7 though?
<ogra_> no
<dobey> rightâ¦
<ogra_> well, we could have killed grouper altogether
<ogra_> do you prefer that
<pmcgowan> ogra_, know where the release notes are for touch?
<dobey> sure, and release notes to say so :)
<ogra_> pmcgowan, i think asac, and dider did them in the general release notes somewhere
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Touch
<dobey> pmcgowan: 2014/04/17 14:34:00 Flashing version 10 from ubuntu-touch/stable channel and server https://system-image.ubuntu.com to device grouper
<ogra_> pmcgowan, ^^
<dobey> doh
<dobey> stupid copy/paste
<dobey> meant that url...
<pmcgowan> heh
<pmcgowan> I found desktop rel notes
<pmcgowan> thanks
<ogra_> dobey, "The following devices we stopped producing builds for:" ... see, we dont say we retroactively wipe the image for them
<dobey> ogra_: then why not put image 294 in stable?
<ogra_> dobey, app developers with such devices should still have a chance to try out their apps
<ogra_> because then we would support it
<ogra_> whats in the stable channel is our officially supported stuff
<dobey> and we support image build 10?
<ogra_> we supported image build 10 as the saucy release
<ogra_> sigh
<ogra_> why am i doing this
<ogra_> can you discuss with someone else
<dobey> and it has the ame support contract as full ubuntu 13.10?
<dobey> sure, who?
<ogra_> no idea seriously, i wont change it and i dont get why it matters so much to you that you have to have a discussion about it for 30min
<dobey> i'm just trying to understand what we actually support
<ogra_> well, the same things as we do on desktop
<ogra_> we dont wipe 12.10 amd64+mac just because we dont support it anymore on 14.04
<ogra_> same goes for the phone stuff
<dobey> sure we do, it gets archived on a different server; it doesn't exist on the main archive server any more
<ogra_> that we kept the last builds of devel around and didnt delete them is only for your convenience we wont promote them anywhere but you have a chance to use trusty even on an unsupported device
<ogra_> thats nonsense
<dobey> how is it nonsense?
<ogra_> we dont remove an arch for all former releases because a new release dropped it
<ogra_> i meant 13.10
<ogra_> stop nitpicking please
<dobey> i am not nitpicking
<ogra_> the current releasse structure isnt differnt from the rest of ubuntu ... its just that we have channels
<dobey> my understanding has always been that the phone images do not receive the same support term as the ISO ubuntu releases of the same version. ie, we don't have LTS on the phone images. if that is somehow different now, i just want to know what to expect, and to have a definite understanding of what the support terms are
<ogra_> no, the phone is on its own ... not LTS not supported etc
<ogra_> nontheless we mimic the ubuntu setup 1:1 until we have to change that with actual supported releases
<Hashcode> ogra_ why can't I find 11.04 release of Ubuntu Touch for my OG Droid.. pls fix k thx.
 * Hashcode ducks.
 * ogra_ points Hashcode to pandaboard images :P
<Hashcode> Lol
<Hashcode> wow I have like 6 devices which all need to be updated.
<Hashcode> I'm slacking.
<Hashcode> ogra_ how many devices support the flipped boot now?
<ogra_> Hashcode, i honestly lost the overview
<Hashcode> I felt like it was tiny :/
<ogra_> a handfull perhaps ... i think many ports just rot
<Hashcode> Well in theory if you can bring a device up on the flipped boot style, they are easier to update no?
<ogra_> if i ever manage to find the time i'll revive the galaxy S2 port
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> and we'll make it even easier
<ogra_> all device specific bits will move into the android side during next cycle
<Hashcode> Seemed like there was a hard coding issue in the boot script which was killing my tries
<Hashcode> oh nice
<ogra_> and i'm hoping to have some helper scripts then too that auto-generate udev rules etc
<Hashcode> ah right
<dobey> how rude
<Hashcode> there was that too
<Hashcode> dobey: in a funny sort of way
<dobey> not really
<Hashcode> certainly at your expense tho, for which I apologize.
<VeDriod4> Hey guys
<VeDriod4> I need some help
<Hashcode> ogra_ like helper scripts per SoC?
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> generic ones
<Hashcode> or more centered on device type
<Hashcode> ah kind of a cannon approach for filling in a bunch of default rules
<ogra_> generic scripts that can translate uevent configs into udev rules for example
<Hashcode> oh so they's use device info
<Hashcode> I see what you're saying
<ogra_> right
<Hashcode> nifty
<ogra_> same goes for powerd configs and all the stuff that you have to submit to different packages today for a port
<VeDroid4> How can I install ubuntu-touch trusty on my Motorola Droid4 (XT894) &
<VeDroid4> ??
<ogra_> check the devices wikipage
<ogra_> !devices | VeDroid4
<ubot5> VeDroid4: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<VeDroid4> aaaww... come on)) information on this pages is too old!((
<ogra_> if there is an image it should be linked there ... and instructions too ... if there isnt, you can search through the xda forums perhaps someone made one that isnt on our page
<Hashcode> VeDroid4: that build hasn't been touched in months
<Hashcode> it's on my (very large) TODO list
<ogra_> yeah, many builds just idle since a while
<Hashcode> And ogra_ hates cdma so I was less inclined to work on it :p
<ogra_> i love cdma ... i can make my colleagues shriek when i mention it :)
<Hashcode> hah
<Hashcode> it's so bad.  I should really swap to TMo or something
<mbalmer> cdma? csmacd!
<VeDroid4> so u guys wanna say that ubuntu-touch 14.04 is not ready for install on my device, right?
<Hashcode> Yes, I'll say that.
<ogra_> seemingly
<VeDroid4> okay
<Hashcode> Since it was a community port
<VeDroid4> how long i have waiting for?
<Hashcode> You wouldn't be able to use the phone as a phone even if it was updated unless you're on a GSM carrier.
<VeDroid4> i`m using gsm
<Hashcode> VeDroid4: I'll see if I can get another dev to pickup the Moto devices and get new builds going.
<Hashcode> I'm not :P
<VeDroid4> its terrible..
<niemeyer> tedg: Any tricks for overcoming the fact the upstart user jobs are not doing any logging?
<tedg> niemeyer, What do you mean? They log to ~/.cache/upstart/
<syntroPi> is 14.04 officially released for nexus 4 or is it still beta?
<ogra_> official
<syntroPi> can you point me to the download index?
<ogra_> well, its still not a feature complete thing
<ogra_> syntroPi, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Touch
<ogra_> the install page is linked there
<syntroPi> thank you
<niemeyer> tedg: Oh, sweet. I assumed the note about user jobs not being able to log was valid here too
<ogra_> niemeyer, quite the opposite ... we have a hard time making sure user jobs dont log to much :)
<ogra_> seems quite fashionable to leave all debugging on in your app nowadays :)
<niemeyer> ogra_: Was that fixed in upstart in general?
<ogra_> that it logs session jobs ?
<ogra_> i didnt know it was broken :)
<niemeyer> ogra_: E.g.
<niemeyer> ogra_: "User jobs cannot currently take advantage of job logging."
<niemeyer> [1] upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/
<ogra_> well, we always used that ... since day one of switching to session management via upstart
<ogra_> i guess the cookbook needs updating or this is just ubuntu specific
<ogra_> (cookbook is upstream documentation)
<VeDroid4> Hashcode:
<VeDroid4> I`m, and all my country neighbous, using GSM only. And it`s not because we havent CDMA ... our GSM provides much better connection quality.
<niemeyer> ogra_: Well, all good either way.. very happy that it works :)
<ogra_> :)
<VeDroid4> okay...
<VeDroid4> Thanx all `bout information
<VeDroid4> bye
<VeDroid4> :)
<kirkland> what channel should I deploy to a Nexus7, as of today?
<kirkland> ubuntu-touch/trusty?
<ogra_> kirkland, devel will carry you over to U
<ogra_> (ubuntu-touch/devel)
<kirkland> ogra_: with devel type speedbumps along the way, right?
<ogra_> and give you the latest for now as well
<ogra_> devel is usually pretty stable
<dobey> kirkland: which n7? 2012 or 2013?
<kirkland> ogra_: I think I'm looking for something pretty stable
<ogra_> oh, right
<ogra_> 2012 is dead
<kirkland> dobey: 2013;  I understood my 2x 2012's are already deprecated?  (tis a shame, if true)
<ogra_> there is one image for it left in devel ... and the saucy release in the stable channel
<dobey> kirkland: then i think you want ubuntu-device-flash --channel trusty for 2013 and soemwhat "stable"
<kirkland> dobey: great, thanks
<ogra_> kirkland, go for the devel channel ... that way you get fixes and have the latest QA signed off image
<ogra_> do *not* use "trusty"
<ogra_> thats a dead end
<kirkland> ogra_: hmm, I dunno;  I really don't want to "fight" with my tablet...
<ogra_> well, but you probably want bugfixes :)
<dobey> yeah, 2012 is no longer supported :-/
<kirkland> ogra_: okay, I'm going to roll with devel, and I'm going to come looking for you when it breaks :-)
<ogra_> k
<ogra_> :)
<kirkland> :-)
<ogra_> devel is what sabdfl and rickspencer3 run too
<rickspencer3> hey ogra_
<ogra_> :)
<rickspencer3> ftr, I run devel-proposed on my tablet (N7)
<rickspencer3> flo, that is :)
<ogra_> so you can count on us keeping it usable
<ogra_> whee ! brave !!
<rickspencer3> kirkland, if you are using your phone as your phone, use devel
<kirkland> rickspencer3: I tried that for a while, maybe in December/January;  didn't work out well for me
<rickspencer3> ogra_, didrocks, and everyone else do a great job of keeping it stable but reasonably fresh
<kirkland> \o/
<rickspencer3> kirkland, I've been doing it since last May, so I don't know what your problem is ;)
<rickspencer3> I'm getting close to one year sans android :)
<kirkland> rickspencer3: probably a difference in expectations, I'd imagine
 * ogra_ is getting close to drop it completely 
<ogra_> (android that is)
 * dobey can happily say he has never used android
<rickspencer3> kirkland, I don't know
<rickspencer3> Ubuntu does everything I need
<rickspencer3> and when it doesn't, I write an app for it
<rsalveti> :D
<dobey> rickspencer3: i think that's what he means ;)
<rickspencer3> at this very moment I am writing an app to combine all my transportation data needs for Washington, DC
<rickspencer3> dobey, right, but "I am missing foo app" is one thing
<rickspencer3> but stability concerns and such, we aren't perfect, but certainly good enough
<rickspencer3> and compared to my first android phone, I think we are reasonably stable ;)
 * rickspencer3 remembers getting very good at pulling the battery of his samsung galaxy 2
<rickspencer3> </soapbox>
<rickspencer3> kirkland, do it! go all in!
<dobey> if i could get supported hardware at a reasonable size, i could possibly start using ubuntu as a phone now
<rickspencer3> dobey, is Nexus 4 too big or too small?
<dobey> too big
<rickspencer3> interesting
<rickspencer3> dobey, I am afraid you are screwed
<dobey> nexus 5 is sexy, but way too big :-/
<rickspencer3> I haven't seen a smaller phone in a while :)
<Hashcode> MotoX port would work
<rickspencer3> at mwc they were getting kinda freakishly large
<dobey> yeah, i don't want a 10" phone
<dobey> 10" is very close to the largest size i want for a laptop
<dobey> there are a couple of new phones that are smaller, but they are not supported afaik
<rickspencer3> dobey, so, I find your excuse pretty terrible :)
<rickspencer3> you need start running a Nexus 4 and you need to like it :)
 * rickspencer3 whip cracking noises
<dobey> the nexus 4 is kind of ugly anyway
<kirkland> rickspencer3: I'm all in, on my nexus7, installing devel now
<rickspencer3> kirkland, nice
<anshulk> so mir and x11 versions of unity8 look different or exactly the same ?
<ogra_> same ... but more functional on the tablet/phone
<rickspencer3> kirkland, so, on the Nexus 4, we currently have a couple of small stability issues, which are painful when apport kicks in, otherwise you wouldn't really notice
<rickspencer3> kirkland, and also, the scopes currently have a couple of performance issues
<rickspencer3> you'll notice especially when vertically scrolling
<kirkland> rickspencer3: I'm on a nexus 5...I don't see where that's supported yet?
<rickspencer3> and finally ...
<rickspencer3> we have the qt event process problem
<ogra_> kirkland, Tassadar has a system-image server for it
<Tassadar> I should add that to the wiki
<rickspencer3> kirkland, so, until next week or so, many events won't get processed when your device's screen is off
<rickspencer3> but text and phone calls work fine
<ogra_> Tassadar, ++
<Tassadar> the /devices page seems a bit..outdated
<ogra_> a bit ...
<rickspencer3> kirkland, also, it's really really fun to write Ubuntu apps now
 * ogra_ giggles
<Tassadar> "quantal"
<Tassadar> hm)
<ogra_> yeah
<kirkland> rickspencer3: actually, I have one that I built using Cordova, for Android, I'm hoping it "just works" with Touch
<ogra_> most images you will find out there still use the mwc rootfs
<ogra_> from pre-quantal
<rickspencer3> kirkland, it should "just work" will be interesting to see
<dobey> lol. the htc one "mini" and galaxy s4 "mini" are still 4.3" screens :-/
<dobey> so much for "mini"
<ogra_> kirkland, if it doesnt, dbarth is your man
<kirkland> rickspencer3: it's pretty much just html5 and javascript
<rickspencer3> kirkland, should work and if it doesn't let's get some bugs logged and make it work
<rickspencer3> dbarth will surely ensure that
<kirkland> rickspencer3: it's an app that turns your phone/tablet into a picture frame;  you point it at an image source (currently, blogger and wordpress blogs are supported)
<rickspencer3> he's pretty passionate about making cordova apps run smoothly
<rickspencer3> kirkland, cute
<rickspencer3> do it
<rickspencer3> get it in the store!
<kirkland> rickspencer3: an in-browser client is here: http://blicture.com/?u=theravingrick.blogspot.com
<dobey> guess i'll just have to make my own phone
<rickspencer3> kirkland, I think mhall119 might be able to point you in the right direction for getting it going, if not maybe it's dpm?
<kirkland> rickspencer3: it = into the store?
<kirkland> rickspencer3: yeah, definitely that's the plan
<rickspencer3> yeah, get it in the store
<rickspencer3> do it
<rickspencer3> :)
<kirkland> rickspencer3: ack, wilco :-)
<rickspencer3> sounds like a perfect app
<kirkland> rickspencer3: you have some weird pictures in your blog :-)
<frecel> hello everyone
<rickspencer3> kirkland, uh, hopefully you haven't found my secret personal blog
<kirkland> rickspencer3: now I'm on a hunt!
<rickspencer3> :)
<rickspencer3> j/k
<kirkland> :-)
<Farsch_sleep> popey: Thanks again for the Wiki edit.
<popey> Farsch_sleep: no problemo!
<frecel> I havent updated my phone for a while (it's on r255) and when I'm trying to update it it shows that it's up to date, what's the safest way to update it without breaking something?
<ogra_> frecel, what device ?
<ogra_> the supported ones should be on 302
<ogra_> and if you have an unsupported one i fear yo have to saty with what you have
<ogra_> *stay
<frecel> ogra_: nexus4
<ogra_> hmm, that should definitely offer an update ... what channel are you on ?
<frecel> devel
<ogra_> hmm, thats definitely on 302
<frecel> I was just going to force an update through shell but I don't want to breake anything that isn't broken yet
<ogra_> try rebooting
<kirkland> so I've run "ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel --bootstrap"
<ogra_> sounds good
<kirkland> and I have the following:
<kirkland> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7270379/
<kirkland> and my device is in the Ubuntu Touch Recovery menu
<kirkland> with reboot system now selected
<kirkland> is that what I want?
<ogra_> ignore the device screen
<kirkland> ah
<ogra_> just leave it
<kirkland> okay
<ogra_> :)
<kirkland> now it just rebooted
<pmcgowan> this part requires patience
<ogra_> yeah
<pmcgowan> ah good
<kirkland> and I have an Ubuntu spinning logo
<ogra_> and we need to put some screen overlay in place
<ogra_> so the menu gets hidden
<pmcgowan> kyleN, might be a good note for your doc ^^ dont touch it till it reboots
<frecel> ogra_:  rebooted, it's still checking for updates
<frecel> ogra_: aaand it says its up to date now
<ogra_> dang
<kirkland> ogra_: yeah, agreed;  I thought I was supposed to press a button then
<ogra_> is that a writable image ?
<frecel> ogra_: is there a shell equivalent to doing that update check?
<ogra_> system-image-cli -v
<ogra_> note that will start a download on cmdline if it finds something
<kirkland> ogra_: okay, command line finished, exited 0;  I am at another prompt, asking:  "ROM may flash stock recovery on boot.  Fix?  THIS CAN NOT BE UNDONE."  No is selected, the other option is Yes Disable recovery flash
<kirkland> ogra_: looks like I want "No"
<kyleN> pmcgowan, i already say that: "Wait. In most cases no input from you is required."
<kirkland> ogra_: correct?
<kyleN> i can add 'until it reboots' though
<ogra_> kirkland, doesnt matter just select something ...
<ogra_> (thats another wart ...)
<pmcgowan> kyleN, ok, we have kirkland here in the process too bad we didnt point him to the new stuff ;)
<ogra_> its a no-op
<kyleN> hey kirkland: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1fmv_WP4Atcf1p2I-zZtAOUF0XuYMtAsREroXpq5r1b8/edit#
<bacteu> does the 14.04 version of ubuntu touch have that hdmi-out desktop mode?
<ogra_> bacteu, heh, no ... thats something that will happen on the way to 16.04
<bacteu> ogra_: it seems to me they keep moving the goalposts
<ogra_> we first need a 100% working phone OS before starting that
<pmcgowan> kyleN, do you have that ROM may flash propt above? that tricked me last time
<kirkland> ogra_: success, thanks all ;-)
<ogra_> :)
<kirkland> kyleN: thanks
<kirkland> kyleN: I more or less followed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<kirkland> kyleN: save for the few questions above ^
<kyleN> kirkland, yes I am refactoring that and it will move to developer.ubuntu.com
<kyleN> pmcgowan, i don't recall seeing the ROM prompt
<pmcgowan> kyleN, I saw it when we flashed a bunch of nexus 7s recently
<frecel> ogra_: I think I will just reflash it and get over with it
<frecel> nothing works
<dobey> ugh, nexus 4 prices are ridiculous
<frecel> dobey: I know right, I'm just waiting for my sister to upgrade her phone so I can "borrow" hers :D
<dobey> "pay me $350 for this phone i used for 6 months that i bought for $250"
<pmcgowan> dobey, we must have driven prices up :)
<bacteu> dobey: the $250 price was a clearance sale, it's not really fair to condemn the value of the device forever just because it was sold much cheaper at one point
<dobey> bacteu: it is when a bunch of people bought it at that price to use a few months and sell it; and even if one did pay $350 for one on launch day, then it's been used for over a year, and $350 is still not an acceptable price for it
<bacteu> why isn't $350 an acceptable price? It's still an amazing device
<dobey> it's still an obsolete device and $350 was the price for a brand new device on launch day. not a device that is full of pocket lint and covered in finger grease
<bacteu> are apple products the only devices allowed to retain their value?
<dobey> did i say anything about apple devices?
<bacteu> dobey: obsolete device? On the contrary!
<echoe> donkey I don't think nexus 4 devices are $350? Not from what I saw
<dobey> can i run ubuntu touch on an iphone 4s as an officially supported device?
<echoe> (Sorry, dobey. Autocorrect ftw)
<echoe> (If they are I may want to get to selling mine ...)
<bacteu> echoe: indeed, they are between $200-$250 on ebay
<dobey> bacteu: yes it's obsolete. can i buy one direct from google today?
<frecel> I picked mine up for $200
<echoe> Yeah, I don't see how that's a bad price. They were priced at cost and as such had better specifications than other phones above their price. There are a lot of advantages to having a nexus phone as well
<bacteu> dobey: just because something isn't being sold doesn't make it obsolete
<dobey> plus, i don't want to spend $200-300 for a phone that probably won't be supported in 6 months for ubuntu either
<echoe> (I'm using a 5c now, though ...)
<dobey> bacteu: sure it does
<bacteu> echoe: which colour?
<echoe> dobey: if you want to convince yourself to not get a nexus 4 that's fine. The battery was the big sticking point for me, it's not a perfect device (nothing is)
<dobey> i already am convinced to not get a nexus 4
<bacteu> the curved edges were awfully nice on the nexus 4
<echoe> It's blue! I wanted a yellow one but I got this on eBay for under $300 :o and the blue one's kind of pretty anyways.
<bacteu> shame they skipped that for the nexus 5
<dobey> but my nexus 7 is no longer supported already
<bacteu> echoe: nice
<bacteu> dobey: if you want a cheap android, get a moto g, but it probably won't get ubuntu touch
<dobey> i don't want android
<dobey> n4 is the only officially supported phone for ubuntu touch right now
<echoe> The nexus 4 should be supported for ubuntu touch for a while I'd think
<bacteu> I really like that I can duel boot between ubuntu touch and android 4.4 on my nexus 4
<frecel> I hear the nexus 5 build is pretty solid though
<dobey> echoe: that's what i thought/was told when i got my nexus 7, too though
<echoe> Your 2012 nexus 7 running tegra 3?
<dobey> nexus 5 would be great if it was 1.5" smaller
<bacteu> the soc on the 2012 nexus 7 isn't that good
<echoe> yeah idk about that
<bacteu> the 2013 nexus 7 has the same soc as the nexus 4 iirc
<echoe> The nexus 4 one is under clocked I think but they are at least very similar
<bacteu> s4 pro
<dobey> i don't know/care what the soc is. i just don't want be buying new things every few months
<echoe> You should care, since slow things don't get updated as much and things that are like other new things are updated more
<bacteu> I think I'll get at least another year of use out of this nexus 4
<echoe> There's a community build for the 2012 nexus 7 though right?
<bacteu> echoe: yuck
<echoe> oh community builds aren't too bad
<dobey> they are if what you need to use is the official daily builds
<echoe> ... why do you need to use the official daily builds?
<dobey> because that's where the code i'm writing ends up?
<echoe> Oh, well, yeah. If you're writing code for dailies that makes sense ... eh. No way to know exactly what the targets are though. Price of development, or something
<bacteu> dobey: if you contribute a lot to the project maybe you could ask shuttleworth nicely if he'll buy you a nexus 4
<Tassadar> you can have daily builds with community ports now, and the core rootfs is the same
<Tassadar> but yeah, depends on the port
<dobey> what i want, is the nexus 5 in a package that's 1.5" smaller
<bacteu> the moto x sounds like that
<bacteu> but its more expensive
<dobey> but it's not supported
<dobey> and it's a motorola
<bacteu> motorola are still owned by google
<bacteu> the sale has to be approved
<dobey> yes, and they still make motorola phones
<dobey> i have never been impressed with the quality of motorola phones
<bacteu> I have
<bacteu> I don't mean to sound like a salesman, but the moto x and moto g are quite good devices
<Tassadar> moto X is still 4.7 inches, by the way
<dobey> the moto x is basically a nexus 4
<Tassadar> so it's the same size as N5, just bigger bezels
<dobey> no, it's smaller than 5
<bacteu> Tassadar: but the bezel is a lot smaller
<dobey> it's same size is n4
<Tassadar> n4 is nearly the same as n5
<dobey> and same hardware as n4, for that matter
<dobey> no it isn't
<bacteu> tyhe moto x is easier to hold in the hand even though it shares the same screen size as the nexus 4
<dobey> the n5 is alsmot a half inch larger in both directions, than the n4
<Tassadar> the display isn't, but when I had them both in my hands, they are really close size-wise
<Tassadar> hm
<bacteu> dobey: the moto x is a s800, the nexus 4 is a s4 pro, different generations
<Hashcode> dobey: the moto x is so close to AOSP it doesn't matter.  And it's "better" than AOSP by gaining all the benefits of the tech
<dobey> bacteu: wikipedia says moto x is s4 pro
<bacteu> really?
<Hashcode> It'd be an interesting project for Ubuntu Touch
<dobey> Hashcode: what the heck is an ADSP?
<nhaines> I like my N5.
<nhaines> dobey: AOSP?
<Hashcode> dobey: android opensource project
<Hashcode> D = O
<dobey> oh
<bacteu> isn't adsp something to do with audio?
<dobey> yeah i don't care aobut android
<Hashcode> yeah
<Hashcode> dobey: that's not my point
<dobey> Hashcode: then what was your point? :)
<Hashcode> My point is you were saying it's moto and not google
<dobey> no
<dobey> i was saying it was moto
<dobey> google doesn't make phones
<Hashcode> IE: it's not a nexus
<bacteu> yeah, the moto x has active nofications and always listening, the nexus 5 doesn't have those
<Hashcode> ^^
<dobey> it is pretty ironic that moto hasn't made a nexus phone, yet google owns them
<Hashcode> And yet they've made a better phone than the nexus devices
<dobey> Hashcode: i don't care if the phone is a nexus or not
<dobey> Hashcode: according to the hardware specs, the moto x is the same as the n4, and the n5 is better than both
<nhaines> dobey: the N5's screen is miles better than the N4's.
<bacteu> dobey: its not ironic, its intentional, google is very afraid of showing favourtism
<dobey> nhaines: i know, i've seen them both in person. but it's also incredibly huge
<Hashcode> dobey: you were asking for a smaller screen, and I bought up the only "competitive" device in existence
<nhaines> dobey: not so bad.  :)
<dobey> Hashcode: that's fine. i simply said it isn't what i want
<Hashcode> to each his own :p
<bacteu> samsung is on the verge of ditching android, and google doesn't want that
<Hashcode> heh
<dobey> i want the hardware that's in the n5, in a device that's smaller than the n4
<Hashcode> dobey: you're not a QCOM fan?
<bacteu> the moto g is on par with the nexus 4 performance wise
<Hashcode> oh I see what you're saying
<Hashcode> At the price point, the Moto G would be a fun device to get on Ubuntu Touch
<Hashcode> also dobey: not everything shows on the paper specs
<dobey> sure, but paper specs are a damn good start
<Hashcode> more and more it's coming down to details which don't represent on paper
<dobey> i don't care what app stores the phones have by default either ;)
<Hashcode> I'm talking about sensors and functionality
<Hashcode> not the default OS
<bacteu> doesn't the nexus 5 have that low energy step counter sensor?
<Hashcode> S4/5?
<Hashcode> has a low energy pedometer if I recall
<Tassadar> n5 has that too
<dobey> don't they all have ANT+ now too?
<Hashcode> Is it the N5 which has OTG issues?
<Tassadar> and a chip for always-on voice recognition)
<Tassadar> Hashcode: no, that's n4
<Hashcode> ah right
<Tassadar> n4 needs external power, if I remember correctly
<Hashcode> they used the OTG power pin for slimport on the N4
<Hashcode> yeah
<n3tJ4ckr> Question: Should I be experiencing poor performance using the Nexus 4?
<bacteu> yes
<n3tJ4ckr> Cool
<n3tJ4ckr> As long as I'm not going crazy.
<rymate1234> i thought the nexus 4 was pretty powerful?
<pmcgowan> n3tJ4ckr, what are you seeing?
<bacteu> rymate1234: its still a mobile phone running a beta product
<dobey> oh, ant+ requires extra stuff it seems
<n3tJ4ckr> pmcgowan, slow window loading. Also some mild freezing.
<rymate1234> ah
 * dobey remembers when everyone at uds was hyping tegra :-/
<ogra_> n3tJ4ckr, runs faster than android for me in many areas
<n3tJ4ckr> Was just wondering if it was a hardware or software issue.
<pmcgowan> n3tJ4ckr, might be work filing bugs, the scopes/dash is being tuned, as is app startup, but overall should not be poor
<ogra_> n3tJ4ckr, there is definitely something wrong
<bacteu> ogra_: android 4.4 runs pretty sweet on the n4
<ogra_> bacteu, ubuntu touch too :)
<dobey> n3tJ4ckr: software i'm sure. it's fast on my n7, when it doesn't freeze, as well
<pmcgowan> n3tJ4ckr, if a crash occurs (which happens) it can get slow while apport runs
<pmcgowan> assuming thats still enabled
<bacteu> I guess I have to wait 2 years for the only ubuntu touch feature I ever wanted then
<ogra_> right, when it starts retracing a crash it can get choppy
<ogra_> but that means there was something crashing :)
<ogra_> bacteu, i doubt that ... it will show up earlier
<bacteu> last year everyone was saying it would appear in the 14.04 release :(
<ogra_> nobody said that
<n3tJ4ckr> Parts of it are smooth, but some of the native apps like 'system settings' are a bit slow
<ogra_> people in forum comments did perhaps :)
<pmcgowan> n3tJ4ckr, feedback could be better for sure
<ogra_> n3tJ4ckr, agreed ...
<n3tJ4ckr> Yeah definitely.
<ogra_> n3tJ4ckr, the browser is nearly as fast as chromium on my N5 ...
<ogra_> the shell UI is snappy too ...
<bacteu> how did you get chromium on a n5?
<ogra_> but yeah, apps still start to slow, some are acting slow
<ogra_> bacteu, its the default browser on kitkat
<bacteu> ogra_: oh.. chrome?
<rymate1234> did you mean: chrome?
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> sorry :)
<Tassadar> the aosp one is techinacally chromium)
<bacteu> yeah
<bacteu> they ditched the old aosp browser
<bacteu> custom roms like cyanogenmod still ship the old aosp browser though
<frecel>  I'm on 302 proposed now and I don't see any way to install click packages
<cwayne> is there any way to modify the scope search timeout?
<pmcgowan> frecel, just search for apps in the scope and select them
<frecel> pmcgowan: I'm searching for karma machine and I get no results
<frecel> the phone is connected to the internet
<pmcgowan> frecel, I see it here, did you happen to disable internet dash search?
<frecel> not that I know of
<frecel> maybe someone pushed an update with it disabled by default
<pmcgowan> frecel, should not be no
<pmcgowan> frecel, to be sure check security/privacy in settings
<pmcgowan> should say phone and internet
<frecel> I think I just realized what the problem is
<frecel> I reflashed my phone, I'm not logged in to U1
<pmcgowan> frecel, it should still show you the apps, then prompt you later to sign in
<pmcgowan> to download you will need to sign in though
<dobey> indeed
<dobey> what pmcgowan said is true
<frecel> everything checks out in the privacy settings
<dobey> frecel: if you search for an installed app (like calendar or terminal) does it show results?
<frecel> dobey: yes
<dobey> hmm
<pmcgowan> frecel, can you double check your internet, use the browser
<frecel> pmcgowan: did that before I asked for help here, internet works
<dobey> frecel: are you on 3g or wifi?
<dobey> frecel: you can use adb shell, and check in ~phablet/.cache/upstart/scope-registry.log to see if there are any messages about host not found or such in the log. it could be a DNS issue or something perhaps
<frecel> host not found
<frecel> odd since the browser works
<dobey> yeah. i have no idea why it would happen though; or how to debug and figure out why
<dobey> it should work
<dobey> i think because the dash does a search before your network comes up, it fails then, and then the failure gets cached somehow
<frecel> I can ping stuff from shell and it works
<dobey> if you resolve search.apps.ubuntu.com with ping or in the browser or something, then go back to the dash, switch to the scopes scope or music scope, then back to the apps scope, then do a search again, does it work?
<Saeed> Hi
<Saeed> May I know who is here to assist me ?
<dobey> ask, don't ask to ask
<Saeed> I have a problem using Ubuntu
<Saeed> Can someone help here?
<Graknol> Is this the place to talk about ubuntu for android, or is this ubuntu touch only?
<krul> congratz all with new release
<frecel> can someone with r302 on nexus 4 test something for me?
<frecel> anyone?
<echoe> oh well
<echoe> i'm going to reflash my nexus 4, bleh.
<colonelqubit> echoe: So it says GSM support, calls and sms
<colonelqubit> I'm interested to know how stable all of that is...
<echoe> oh wait, it finally detected the 302 update! wooooooooooo
<echoe> colonelqubit: my nexus 4 is not my main phone and as such has no sim :(
<colonelqubit> ah, too bad
<echoe> but perhaps i should buy one at a t-mobile or walgreens or something just to test. like $10 of minutes or something
<colonelqubit> Yeah, that would be slick
<colonelqubit> I wish I could get a cloned card for my account and then have some kind of secure web interface where I could switch between them
<echoe> for sure
<echoe> that'd be really nice. :)
<colonelqubit> be helpful for testing hardware without disassembling everything to get at the SIM cards
<colonelqubit> Is anyone here using Ubuntu Touch as their primary phone OS?
<ogra_> colonelqubit, a bunch of people do, yeah
#ubuntu-touch 2014-04-18
<colonelqubit> ogra_: Neat. I'll have to find some time to try it out
<ogra_> it is still not feature complete though, dont expect something perfect
<cwayne> mandel: ping
<bacteu> I want docking!
<echoe> srsly
<colonelqubit> ogra_: Oh, certainly. I'd just like to see the current progress, esp. if calls and texting are possible :-)
<ogra_> yeah, that worked very early already
<ogra_> popey, did you ever convert a pdf and opened it with beru ?
 * ogra_ seems to not be able to succeed with that 
<popey> ogra_: nope
<p4b> hey
<p4b> I'm trying to get Xorg to work on my Nexus5, but I need some help with the xorg.conf
<p4b> anyone tried before'
<p4b> Im using the multirom ubuntu touch image as a base
<popey> p4b: we dont use xorg in our images
<p4b> I know
<p4b> I'm trying to get xorg to work instead of mir
<p4b> It "half works"
<popey> Good luck.
<RAOF> p4b: Why do you want Xorg? It's not going to work particularly well.
<p4b> It won't be worse than the raspberry pi I have right here anyways
<p4b> A friend really wants to run Eclipse on his nexus 7 for some reason and I'm trying to do it on my n5
<popey> That sounds overly perverse â»
<p4b> It's overly fun too
<popey> I mean, I know of people who want emacs...
<popey> well indeed.
<p4b> it shows the lxde wallpaper and the cursor
<p4b> but then flashes black
<p4b> and doesnt do anything else
<p4b> it needs proper xorg config file but I only found some for the original N7
<p4b> (I installed lxde, lxdm and removed the unity system compositor and lightdm)
<p4b> If this works I'll write a blog post or something
<p4b> I got my screen to show red instead. Well that's progress
<Felix_Lin> Hello, everybody
<frecel> anyone with r302 on nexus4 here?
<doflah> frecel, I have it
<frecel> doflah: I need you to confirm a bug for me before I file it if you have a minute
<frecel> can you turn off all apps, and just put the phone to your ear as if you were about to talk to someone and tell me if you hear anything
<frecel> I can hear quiet crackling sounds coming from the speaker and I'm wondering if it's a hardware issue or a software bug
<doflah> I've noticed that in the past, let me see if it still happening
<doflah> yeah, i can hear some crackling
<frecel> I don't even know where to file this
<Aki-Thinkpad> #ubuntu-release-party
<nhaines> Aki-Thinkpad: don't think that's the right place.  :)
<Aki-Thinkpad> nhaines, stop cyberbullying me. I meant to type /join >:[
<nhaines> Aki-Thinkpad: computers do what you say and not what you mean!  But it's good to have you back in #ubuntu-release-party too.  :)
<Aki-Thinkpad> Moooooommmmmm!!!! Nhaines is bullying me
<bacteu> is the accounts button in the settings supposed to do anything? (302)
<frecel> bacteu: yes and it does, sometimes
<frecel> bacteu: from my experience 302 is quitte bugged
<bacteu> kay
<Felix_Lin> Hi, Guys, Can I get manual test cases for Phablet/Phone?
<Aki-Thinkpad> Felix_Lin, manual test cases?
<Aki-Thinkpad> also I think "phablet" is deprecated
<echoe> just think of it as describing a fab tablet
<echoe> stupid question: how would I transfer music to my ubuntu touch phone? :?
<echoe> ... maybe I should get a 2013 nexus7. hm.
<echoe> seriously though, is there any way to transfer files to ubuntu touch?
<echoe> it doesn't show up when I plug the phone into anything
<bacteu> echoe: they want you to use sftp
<echoe> blugh?
<echoe> that's. ... dumb
<bacteu> echoe: linux developers are too far detached from the realities of normal human life
<echoe> how would one even set up sftp
<echoe> this is ridiculous ugh.
<bacteu> echoe: http://askubuntu.com/questions/312566/how-to-transfer-files-from-galaxy-nexus-running-ubuntu
<bacteu> ignore the galaxy nexus part, it still applies
<echoe> lol, ah, thanks
<echoe> personally I don't think you can say it's fully ready without mtp support but I'll go do that now x.x
<bacteu> it's not fully ready until they make it dockable
<bacteu> I was playing with 302 earlier, the touch latency is much longer than android
<bacteu> I was hoing it had improved since I last used it :|
<bacteu> *hoping
<echoe> mtp is the protocol ubuntu touch will likely use to be dockable
<bacteu> it doesn't really have much of a choice in that
<echoe> I was saying the same thing! :D just with different words
<bacteu> using regular usb mounting isn't an option with the nexus 4
<bacteu> you can only do that on devices that have sd cards
<bacteu> because they need to be unmounted
<echoe> shrug
<bacteu> the docking was the only thing which made my excited for this project
<bacteu> having the ability to walze into work, plug in my phone.. and up pops my desktop environment
<bacteu> *waltz
<echoe> http://askubuntu.com/questions/341695/how-to-transfer-data-to-ubuntu-touch?rq=1
<echoe> this works better
<echoe> also, yes, I hope the docking works out myself too. ... it'll probably be next phone gen that it'll be good though
<bacteu> :(
<echoe> what can I say :|
<bacteu> say that my nexus 4 will last forever
<echoe> your nexus 4 will last forever.
<echoe> pieces of it will remain as objects for generations
<bacteu> my laptop will last 4 years, why can't my phone?
<echoe> because phones are advancing quicker
<bacteu> I think the tech is enough right now
<bacteu> we have 2gb of ram, high density displays
<bacteu> good socs
<bacteu> but the big guys like samsung keep pushing bullshit like 2k resolutions
<bacteu> a phone doesn't need that much, its just another thing for them to put in their adverts
<echoe> idk
<echoe> a phone is a coputer
<echoe> I want 2007 thinkbook-level performance from my phone
<echoe> then we can call it good. :P
<Aki-Thinkpad> echoe, thinkbook?
<bacteu> Aki-Thinkpad: yeah, ibm used to make them but then they sold the brand to lenovo
<Aki-Thinkpad> *headdesk*
<echoe> yeah.
<echoe> fine, thinkpad
<echoe> whateverrrr
<echoe> i'm a bit out of it.
<echoe> heyyyy my phone plays music now
<bacteu> what type of music?
<echoe> my friend introduced me to flume
<echoe> so i bought his cd, it's good.
<echoe> he's kind of ... electronica/dubsteppy.
<echoe> the application list needs ... to be better too
<echoe> ooh, fun music player skips
<sub_server> Good work on Ubuntu touch, just installed on my Nexus 4. Looking forward to when all features are implemented fully and the market gains some traction
<Bray90820> Is there a way to have the ubuntu touch interface on the desktop version of ubuntu
<echoe> bray, why would you possibly want that
<echoe> but unity is the closest thing you'll get I guess
<TyrfingMjolnir> Which phones do Ubuntu Touch work on?
<ParkerR> TyrfingMjolnir, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<TyrfingMjolnir> I m there
<TyrfingMjolnir> Will it run on Samsung Note 3?
<bacteu> TyrfingMjolnir: there are official builds and community builds
<TyrfingMjolnir> I m considering to buy a phone for this purpose
<bacteu> TyrfingMjolnir: maybe check xda
<TyrfingMjolnir> I have been using iPhone since June 2007
<TyrfingMjolnir> And the initial iPhone is still the best
<TyrfingMjolnir> Tried the iPhone 5, 15-18 hrs of phone is not enough for me, so I went back to my iPhone 4 on iOS 6, in which runs OK, but I guess not for long, and unless iPhone 6 has more than 4 days of battery power, I will not upgrade, just to put the phones in the book shelf, for me the phone is a tool, that helps me through the day.
<ParkerR> Well I havent been following it very closely but last I saw Touch still wasn't quite ready for mainstream
<TyrfingMjolnir> I donât find android to be any better.
<TyrfingMjolnir> But I would love to have Ubuntu or debian on a phone, that would actually make it worth the change.
<bacteu> I heard the lg g2 has some immpressive battery life
<ParkerR> TyrfingMjolnir, Ok humor me: Why do you need such a long battery life out of a phone? How long are you seriously away from an outlet?
<bacteu> ParkerR: its nice to not be tethered.. to *always* have to remember to plug it in each night else you're fucked the morning after
<TyrfingMjolnir> Depends on where I m at
<TyrfingMjolnir> If I m in the jungle for 4-5 days
<ParkerR> I can see that. I usually just have mine charging when I'm not using it. Always seemed so natural to me, heh
<TyrfingMjolnir> But every day?
<TyrfingMjolnir> Every Saturday should be enough
<bacteu> do you have an e-ink e-book reader? I only need to charge mine every couple of weeks, its such a nice experience
<ParkerR> Well I have an outlet near me every day
<ParkerR> Multiple
<bacteu> just stick it back in the bag and it'll always have charge
<TyrfingMjolnir> I probably also have an outlet neat my several days pr year, but it makes me feel attached.
<TyrfingMjolnir> and addicted
<bacteu> TyrfingMjolnir: have you considered an external battery pack?
<TyrfingMjolnir> Yeah, I have that, but I consider it a complete waste and a hazzle
<TyrfingMjolnir> I hate this planned obsolescense
<ParkerR> TyrfingMjolnir, I saw this earlier. Slightly older spec phone but with a giant battery http://www.tabletdroid.co.uk/blog/android-phone-lasts-2-months-meet-philips-w6618/
<ParkerR> TyrfingMjolnir, Well bad battery life isnt always planned obsolescence
<TyrfingMjolnir> Too much light in the display?
<ParkerR> Hmm?
<TyrfingMjolnir> I usually have the light down to 20-25?
<ParkerR> Well yeah backlight is the main power draw
<TyrfingMjolnir> 20-25%
<TyrfingMjolnir> and I never render on my phones
<TyrfingMjolnir> And I always turn off bluetooth( this is a life saver for iPhone 4, gives double the battery life )
<ParkerR> Yeah I have one I use as an ipod
<TyrfingMjolnir> How come bluetooth can use the same amount of power as the 75% top light levels of the screen?
<ParkerR> Extra chip to power
<ParkerR> Heh and actually rh iPhone 4 doesnt get used really at all anymore since I picked up a little Sansa Clip
<ParkerR> &the
<bacteu> low signal is the worst for my nexus 4
<bacteu> it can drain the battery overnight if I'm not careful
<bacteu> whereas if I put airplane mode on it doesn't budge an inch
<ParkerR> bacteu, low signal = it trying harder to find a signal?
<bacteu> yeah
<timppa> Hi! How can I disable call forwarding on ubuntu touch?
<timppa> regular ##21# -> call does not work, gives invalid USSD error
<echoe> timppa: apparently is not a feature yet
<nexus4BUY> hello all, I would like to buy a nexus 4 smartphone, cause I still don't have a  smartphone, where can I buy a nexus 4 in europe for example?
<Aki-Thinkpad> nexus4BUY, why the nexus 4 specifically?
<Aki-Thinkpad> cost?
<Aki-Thinkpad> I am not expert on this, but I believe there are more... suitable phones for ubuntu-touch
<Aki-Thinkpad> I say this because someone had mentioned to me that their nexus 4 ran ubuntu touch somewhat slowly.
<nexus4BUY> I was thinking that nexus 4 is the best supported phone for ubuntu-touch...
<nexus4BUY> I would appreciate to know if there are any other smartphones to consider  to buy.  please give me an help or I have to wait next year to buy a smartphone.
<Neo31> hello folks, i cannot install ubuntu-sdk on 14.04 any help please ?
<pmcgowan> Neo31, whats the problem
<Neo31> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7275155/
<Neo31> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7275180/
<Neo31> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7275247/
<Neo31> it seems not on ubuntu repositories nor on ubuntu-sdk-team ppa!!
<Neo31> pmcgowan
<pmcgowan> let me see
<pmcgowan> Neo31, the metapackage is in universe
<Neo31> what should i add to my sources.list to solve this pmcgowan ?
<pmcgowan> deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty universe
<Neo31> deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty universe
<Neo31> good
<Neo31> thanks a lot
<Neo31> trying it
<pmcgowan> ok
<Neo31> problem solved, thank you pmcgowan
<pmcgowan> great yw
<pmcgowan> Neo31, if you have any questions join #ubuntu-app-devel
<Neo31> thanks again pmcgowan, I will :)
<cwayne> mandel: ping
<HerrBulles> Hello , Wolrd ! :-)
<HerrBulles> Hello , World ! :-)
<HerrBulles> A Star Note N9775  MTK dual sim phone could be made to work with Ubuntu ?
<pmcgowan> !devices
<ubot5> You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<HerrBulles> Thank you !
 * dobey wonders when nexus 5 will be supported
<Tassadar> dobey: I think sometimes this development cycle was the "goal", I currently maintain custom system-image server with daily builds for N5 and deb (4G version of Nexus 7)
<Tassadar> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg06721.html
<cwayne> Tassadar: thanks for that btw, been using your system-image server for awhile now :)
<dobey> hmm
<dobey> ugh. tmo has the 16gb n5, for the 32gb n5's price :(
<cwayne> why not just buy it from google?
<dobey> well i'm not going to pay the 32gb price for a 16gb model, for sure
<Tassadar> btw, I just upgraded that sever, tasemnice, to 14.04 ^^
<Tassadar> *server
<dobey> but t-mo has a store down the road, and i could have it today. google won't even ship it for 1-2 business days
<dobey> and google won't even tell me tax and shipping until i add a payment method to google wallet :-/
<dobey> plus t-mo has a "free wireless charger" deal right now
<dobey> although, since the phone is $50 extra, it's not quite free
<tedg> Think I'm going to wait to see more about the BQ phone. Really want the dual-SIM feature.
<dobey> tedg: do you not have t-mo service?
<tedg> dobey, No, long story.
<mhall119> why do I have so many missing icons for core apps (and others) after recent upgrades?
<mhall119> popey: ^^ any idea?
<popey> on desktop or phone?
<Tassadar> dobey: btw, it doesn't work as well as on n4 - audio is not working very well (only works for the first call)
<mhall119> popey: phone
<Tassadar> other things are fine, but the audio bug is quite bad if you want to use it as a phone
<popey> mhall119: odd, fine here.
<popey> mhall119: screenshot?
<frecel> I've had missing icons for as long as I can remember
<popey> for which apps?
<frecel> It's random
<popey> hmm, sounds like unity8 issues..
<popey> these are installed apps or store apps?
<popey> i just rebooted my phone and see loads missing....
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2014-04-18-154410.png
<pmcgowan> popey, thats the no icons without network bug?
<mhall119> popey: http://ubuntuone.com/5pZpQrlCmUxOL8sf6Cshp7
<mhall119> http://ubuntuone.com/6HL1Q7hixiKDbowippAOh6
<popey> ooh, Ubuntu One link.. retro
<mhall119> http://ubuntuone.com/4filWBWHK6rzQUgsiRHYJK
<dobey> pmcgowan: well, "available" shouldn't show without network either
<mhall119> I'm old-skool
<pmcgowan> dobey, thats why its a bug ;)
<popey> pmcgowan: its on the network
<popey> I'm ssh'ed into the phone
<mhall119> I'm also connected to wifi,and they're installed apps
<pmcgowan> mhall119, yeah thats odd indeed
<dobey> sounds like unity8 issue
<dobey> what image?
<mhall119> r302
<mhall119> was it on the last one I had too, r396 I think
<dobey> weird
<mhall119> 296
<popey> file:///usr/share/unity8/Dash/Card.qml:102:16: QML Image: Error downloading https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/site_media/appmedia/2014/04/icon256_1.png - server replied: NOT FOUND
<popey> that'd do it
<faLUCE> hello, is it possibile to install ubuntu touch on an iphone 5?
<popey> yes, 404 on that page
<frecel> faLUCE: no
<dobey> !devices
<ubot5> You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<dobey> faLUCE: ^^
<faLUCE> thanks, but why it is not possible?
<popey> beuno: ^^^ getting missing images (404) on myapps in unity8 on devices
<dobey> popey: i think he is off today
<popey> those urls dont look right
<popey> some work
<dobey> that url works for me
<popey> it didnt before
<dobey> i just opened it in firefox and there's an icon
<popey> there's two hosts
<popey> bet one is hosed
<frecel> faLUCE: because apple doesn't release drivers for their phones
<mhall119> popey: but these are *installed* apps
<faLUCE> frecel: okk thanks
<mhall119> they shouldn't be looking to myapps for icons
<popey> true
<pmcgowan> right they wouldnt
<dobey> mhall119: check the log to see why it's not loading
<popey> are the icons on disk?
<frecel> can you guys install any apps?
<frecel> on r302
<popey> see where the Icon in .desktop in .local/share/applications
<popey> frecel: just installed untappd
<dobey> frecel: i don't see why it wouldn't work
<pmcgowan> hah me too
<mhall119> dobey: file:///usr/share/unity8/Dash/Card.qml:102:16: QML Image: Cannot open: file:///opt/click.ubuntu.com/.click/users/phablet/com.ubuntu.developer.webapps.webapp-facebook/facebook.png
<frecel> I'm getting network issues all over and I still haven't determined if it's the phone or my home network
<mhall119> and indeed, that file doesn't exist
<dobey> mhall119: does that path exist?
<dobey> heh
<dobey> frecel: what issues exactly?
<popey> mhall119: it doesn't exist here either
<mhall119> mhall@mhall-thinkpad:~/projects/Ubuntu/sdk/cyborg$ adb shell ls /opt/click.ubuntu.com/.click/users/phablet/com.ubuntu.clock/
<mhall119> ls: cannot access /opt/click.ubuntu.com/.click/users/phablet/com.ubuntu.clock/: No such file or directory
<mhall119> did these not get installed by click in the image?
<mhall119> I mean, the apps exist and work
<pmcgowan> mhall119, preinstalled apps should not be at that path
<frecel> dobey: websites load slow, cant connect to my ubuntu one account, searching for apps returns host not found
<frecel> dobey: same with my sim card inserted and using 3g
<mhall119> or maybe they don't....
<mhall119> just tried Clock and it won't open
<frecel> dobey: and the phone is on the same wifi network as the laptop I'm on right now
<popey> mhall119: check logs?
<dobey> popey: hrmm, finally got past freezing enough for "available" to load on my n7. no icons for available apps on there either
<popey> yet mine load now.
<popey> I'll ping is
<mhall119> click list says it's installed
<pmcgowan> the server seems much slower than usual but eventually I get the icons
<mhall119> popey: unity8.log just says something about not being bale to load that icon
<frecel> popey: I just realised that my sister has a nexus4 with android on it, I'm going to ask her to check the speaker thing
<pmcgowan> mhall119, facebook should not point to that user path, those should only be store apps
<dobey> where did all my logs go
<popey> nice one frecel
<dobey> .cache/upstart/ only has older compressed logs :-/
<mhall119> qmlscene: failed to check version of file 'ubuntu-clock-app.qml', could not open...
<mhall119> popey: ^^
<popey> shall we have a hangout? would it be easier to debug?
<popey> mhall119: btw "Could not access backend storage" from your ubuntuone links
<mhall119> popey: works for me
<popey> works now
<popey> didnt before
<popey> wonder if our DC's are getting a kicking
<mhall119> they might be seeing a little extra traffic
<popey> haha, cut the rope
<ice9> my android phone uses a customized  cyanogenmod, can I use it as a base to port Ubuntu?
<bacteu> ice9: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting
<ice9> bacteu: but I mean if my device is not supported by cyanogenmod, do I still be able to port Ubuntu?
<frecel> popey: her phone does it too, its a hardware thing
<bacteu> ice9: that is discussed in the link
<popey> frecel: yay
<dobey> popey, frecel: what speaker thing?
<popey> dobey: hold phone to your ear
<dobey> popey: i don't have an n4
<popey> Its like holding a shell to hear the ocean.
<frecel> dobey: nexus4 makes a really quiet crackling sound all the time
<frecel> popey: :D
<dobey> ah
<popey> Only an ocean full of spiders
<mhall119> pmcgowan: are those paths only for store apps, or only for click apps?
<mhall119> IIRC, Facebook is deployed as a click app, but pre-isntalled on the image
<bacteu> my nexus 4 makes tons of noises
<dobey> popey: it's the 5th plague
<dobey> popey: you know, just in time for passover
<pmcgowan> mhall119, I dont have facebook in that path, only apps I got from the store
<mhall119> hmm....
<dobey> popey: it's an ocean of boiling locusts
<mhall119> where is facebook installed then?
<popey>  /usr/share/click/preinstalled ?
<popey> along with all other preinstalled apps
<mhall119> so it's a bug with the click scope then
<dobey> nope
<dobey> that path certainly did not come from the click scope code
<mhall119> then why is the click scope looking in the wrong place for icons/
<dobey> the scope doesn't look anywhere for icons
<mhall119> um.....
<dobey> it just reads the Icon= from the .desktop file and hands it off to the dash
<mhall119> oh
<dobey> maybe it's a bug in click itself
<dobey> when it creates the .desktop files for pre-installed apps?
<pmcgowan> its just borked on mhall119 phone though
<mhall119> mhall@mhall-thinkpad:~/projects/Ubuntu/sdk/cyborg$ adb shell cat /usr/share/click/preinstalled/com.ubuntu.developer.webapps.webapp-facebook/current/webapp-facebook.desktop |grep Icon
<mhall119> Icon=./facebook.png
<mhall119> so what .desktop file is it reading?
<cwayne> mardy: i don't suppose we have bindings for online accounts in golang on the radar? :)
<dobey> the one in .local/share/applications/
<mhall119> oh, oh, there it is
<mhall119> so...if I update a pre-installed app from the store, it replaces that .desktop file with one that points to /opt/ correct?
<dobey> Icon=/usr/share/click/preinstalled/.click/users/@all/com.ubuntu.clock/clock-app@
<dobey> 30.png
<dobey> err without the \n in there
<dobey> is what my clock .desktop has for phablet user
<mhall119> Icon=/opt/click.ubuntu.com/.click/users/phablet/com.ubuntu.developer.webapps.webapp-facebook/./facebook.png
<mhall119> is my facebook .desktop
<dobey> mhall119: maybe, did you install updates for preinstalled apps?
<mhall119> so, install an image and the .desktop you get is for /usr/share/, install an update from the store and you get a new .desktop that uses /opt/, now if you upgrade a new image, it'll put a newer click in /usr/share/, but that doesn't change the user's .desktop that still points to /opt/?
<mhall119> dobey: I did before upgrading to a new image
<dobey> ah
<dobey> mhall119: that sounds like it might be plausible and could be your issue, yeah. but i don't see why upgrading to new image would kill the updated package that was in /opt
<popey> yes, sounds plausible
<dobey> ie, i don't think it should, but maybe it does
<mhall119> I still have the package installed in /opt/
<ahayzen> Hi, where does the mediascanner-service-2.0 store its settings and cache?
<popey> db is in ~/.cache/mediascanner-2.0/
<mhall119> dobey: I have the package installed, just not a link to them in /opt/click.ubuntu.com/.click/users/phablet/
<ahayzen> popey, i see that and deleted it but it there a way to get it to blacklist directories?
<popey> ahayzen: poke jhodapp
<ahayzen> popey, it wants to try and index the whole of my 1TB backup hdd
<popey> "nice"
<ahayzen> popey, not nice when ur trying to copy stuff from it lol
<popey> heh
<pmcgowan> mhall119, have you reflashed anytime recently?
<pmcgowan> sounds like an old bug that was addressed
<dobey> mhall119: so i guess something deleted the link
<ahayzen> jamesh, ping
<mhall119> pmcgowan: last night
<mhall119> to r302
<pmcgowan> let me look for the bug
<mhall119> at some point soon I probably just need to wipe it and clean-flash
<mhall119> I've been updating it since september
<tedg> mhall119, I can't seem to find the docs for unity actions in 14.04, do you know where it is?
<tedg> mhall119, Only got 13.10 links.
<mhall119> tedg: Unity.Actions isn't part of the supported API
<mhall119> at least that was my understanding
<tedg> Uhm, seems it should beâ¦
<mhall119> only Ubuntu.Components.Action
<tedg> mhall119, Are those exportable to HUD?
<mhall119> tedg: I believe so, yes
<mhall119> they use Unity.Action under-the-hood
<tedg> Oh, how confusing.
<mhall119> which has been a source of some pain when running these apps outside of Unity
 * tedg has no idea what to link to in this blog post
<mhall119> bzoltan: can you chime in on the supportedness (made up word) of Unity.Actions?
<tedg> Probably a holiday for him.
<mhall119> he was here earlier
<mhall119> in #ubuntu-app-devel
<Fede> hi
<bacteu> hi
<Fede> i' ve a question: i'm a student of the University and i work with ubuntu, but i wish know also ubuntu touch for developing app... it is possible to install this OS on Galaxy S2 or only Nexus?
<Fede> tks for helping =)
<pmcgowan> !devices | Fede
<ubot5> Fede: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<pmcgowan> Fede, canonical is only supporting the nexus 4, 7 and 10 currently
<Fede> ok, someone that has this phone can tell me if the rom for s2 is much bugged?
<ice9> how long it would take from an experienced ubuntu touch developer to port it to a new device?
<bacteu> ice9: how long is a piece of string?
<ice9> bacteu: depending on the string, count it's letters
<ice9> an experienced developer will know all the requirements to proceed like kernel, vendor, paramters, etc... so assuming these things are easily avaible on the internet then the dev can estimate it would take around time t
<ice9> same like any other software development project!
<tedg> ice9, It's hard to provide generic estimates, highly dependent on the state of drivers, chipset, etc.
<bzoltan> tedg:  yes, holiday :) so finally I have time to do my hobby :) what is Ubuntu
<bzoltan> mhall119: I rememberthat we agreed on moving away from the present dependency structure. But it did not happen yet
<ice9> alright so how much money a developer may ask to work on a poroject like that?
<mhall119> bzoltan: but is the Unity.Actions API even something we want to tell app developers to use?
<bzoltan> mhall119: I do not know, but I do not think so.
<dobey> ice9: ask for money from whom?
<ice9> dobey: anybody, I'm asking about if that is a paid task
<dobey> it's not a paid task
<ice9> dobey: can you do that port?
<dobey> if i really wanted to, i'm sure i could, yes
<ice9> and how much it may cost?
<dobey> "cost" ?
<dobey> do you know know how open source development works?
<ice9> I mean if you are going to get paid for it
<dobey> i don't know of anyone looking ot pay anyone to port ubuntu to a specific phone device
<dobey> people are doing ports to scratch their own itches, not because they are getting paid
<dobey> if you want to contract me to do any software development work, personally, i would probably charge > $100/hr for it
<ice9> did you port already Ubuntu to your phone?
<mterry> Does anyone know the best way to listen for a dbus event as part of an autopilot test?
<balloons> mterry, ask that on #ubuntu-autopilot, though it's a slow day :-)
<mterry> balloons, fair
<frecel> can someone run iwlist wlan0 txpower on a nexus4 when connected to a wifi network? please and thank you
<dobey> ice9: no, my phone is 3 years old and not an android phone. i've never owned/wanted android
<ice9> dobey: do you contribute to ubuntu touch in anyway?
<dobey> heh, sure
<ice9> how?
<dobey> lots of ways; it's kind of my job :)
<symon6> hello, I have a problem. I tried to install Ubuntu Touch on my Galaxy Nexus but I stuck in: Step 4 - Downloading & Deploying Image to Device. I try to use command: ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel --bootstrap but i get the error message:  Device tuna not found on server https://system-image.ubuntu.com channel devel. How can I fix this?
<dobey> !devices
<ubot5> You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<dobey> maybe the instructions aren't updated
<symon6> so it is possible that my version is not supported?
<dobey> symon6: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Touch
<dobey> symon6: galaxy nexus is no longer supported by official builds
<danielholm> hi guys, which is the best project too look for example code of both veritcal and horizontal UI?
<frecel> danielholm: http://design.ubuntu.com/apps
<danielholm> frecel: thanks mate
<symon6> So it is not possible to install Touch on Galaxy Nexus. Sh*t :D It's really funny, because i bought this phone long time ago specially for the new version of android and also because ubuntu touch was developed for this device, and now I don't have any of that :D
<symon6> thanks a lot for help :)
<frecel> symon6: you could probably install an older image
<frecel> symon6: I don't know if that's of any help
<dobey> symon6: it's possible using the community ports probably, or with multirom
<symon6> and where was the support droped for G. Nexus?
<dobey> symon6: the official builds no longer support it
<dobey> symon6: see the ReleaseNotes wiki link i pasted to you
<bacteu> I hope they don't drop my nexus 4
<dobey> bacteu: probably not for a while
<echoe> how is alarms mostly functional if it only works if the device is awake
<echoe> lol.
<bharper> still no encrypted wifi?
<danielholm> hi again, is it possible to get the current IP using QML only?
<dobey> bharper: what do you mean? wpa seems to work just fine here
<dobey> i wonder where the wifi password gets stored though
<dobey> weird, so it does store them in /etc on the phone too
<dobey> but / is readonly, so how?
<bacteu> dobey: doesn't ubuntu have a fairly large partition on the fake sd card?
<dobey> bacteu: / is a 2 GB loopback mount that is read-only
<dobey> and what sd card? my nexus 7 doesn't have an sd cardâ¦
<dobey> or you mean the internal memory is an "mmc" device?
<dobey> oh, i see
<dobey> /dev/mmcblk0p9 on /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections type ext4 (rw,relatime,user_xattr,acl,barrier=1,data=ordered,discard)
<bharper> I don't see any options to enter password
<bharper> but the OS keeps freezing on me
<dobey> bharper: the password entry should pop up when you select the AP in the list, if it requires wpa
<dobey> or WEP too i guess
<bharper> let me try again
<dobey> what device?
<bharper> N7
<bharper> nexus 7 wifi
<bharper> the older one
<bharper> overall performance is very low
<bharper> I have had to issue about a dozen reboots via adb
<dobey> yeah, it is no longer officially supported
<bharper> then why make all the image and zip files to install it?
<dobey> i have the same device, and it indeed freezes quite often since the switch to mir
<bharper> I understand its now a low end device
<bharper> do you have a device where performance is good?
<dobey> bharper: i only have a 2012 n7 right now
<dobey> bharper: there are no more images for grouper on the server. #294 is on devel on the server as a matter of convenience, but newer images are not
<bharper> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/
<bharper> some of those grouper files have time stamps from yesterday
<dobey> i didn't even know that url existed
<dobey> but i guess some bot is still dumping an image there and shouldn't be
<bharper> I found it by following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install -> Manual Download & Installation
<bharper> although the Target devices says Nexus 7 is Deprecated
<bharper> the docs are giving mixes messages regarding the its status
<john96_> IÃ¤m wanting to install ubuntu for Tablets on my lenovo tablet a2109. There is no image available specific to this device yet. If i were to flash a image for say the Kindle fire HD (for which there is an available image and both devices have the same screen size) would i have unwanted results. Such as the bricking of my device?
<dobey> john96_: possibly yes
<john96_> dobey: ok, thanks
<hydruid> Is ubuntu-touch still just in "dev status"?
<leftyfb> Hello, I updated Ubuntu on my Nexus 7 today, now when it boots I get the notification bar, clock and the circle, but it's all frozen. The clock doesn't move and nothing is responding. This is after countless reboots
<dobey> leftyfb: grouper? or flo?
<leftyfb> dobey: it's the 1st gen Nexus 7
<dobey> leftyfb: yeah, it's no longer supported: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Touch
<leftyfb> So I shouldn't bother with Ubuntu and just go back to Android?
<dobey> leftyfb: the last build for it is a bit unreliable on the hardware
<leftyfb> so..... no Ubuntu and back to Android?
<dobey> Tassadar: so, you have a nexus 5 that you have ubuntu running on?
<Tassadar> yes
<Tassadar> I don't use it daily though, I'm just curious I guess
<dobey> leftyfb: that's up to you. but it won't be getting official daily images any more. i don't know what community support will be like for it
<Tassadar> dobey: as I said, if you wanna use it as a phone, the bug with sound is very bad (sound only works on first call)
<dobey> Tassadar: the sound issue you mentioned only affects calls? not music or apps that make sounds?
<Tassadar> eehm
<Tassadar> not sure
<Tassadar> lemme check
<Tassadar> but I guess it is buggy overal - it needs proper config files for the sound system
<Tassadar> (?)
<Tassadar> and there is not that many people who know how to make them, apparently
<leftyfb> dobey: If it were up to me, I would like Ubuntu on this. But unfortunately, it's completely non-functional and you're telling me I will receive no help with getting it working again.
<dobey> leftyfb: i'm saying canonical won't be producing official builds for it any longer. i have no idea if anyone in the larger community will help maintain working ubuntu images for that device (and it's not up to me if they do or not)
<Tassadar> man, the screen rotation sensitivity is too high, the phone just vibrates, and the screen tries to rotate to right and left at the same time
<dobey> leftyfb: so i can't tell you for certain to go back to android or not for it.
<dobey> Tassadar: so the sound issue affects music and other apps too? (just curious if it's related to microphone being active, or all sound in general)
<Tassadar> testing it right now
<dobey> Tassadar: cool, thanks
<Tassadar> oh, wow, I updated it and now it doesn't work even on the first call
<Tassadar> wait, it is fine on second try
<Tassadar> well
<Tassadar> it's weird)
<dobey> trying to decide if i should just buy a shiny new n5 instead of paying almost as much for inferior used hardware that's probably got plenty of scratches
<dobey> heh
<dobey> ok, so sound works (intermittently) it seems
<dobey> does bluetooth work at all?
<Tassadar> it seems that when it works during call, it disables all other sound afterwards
 * dobey won't even bother asking about controltalk
<Tassadar> and I can't even make any more calls, it hangs up the moment it should initiate the call
<dobey> hmm
<Tassadar> yeah, bluetooth doesn't work, won't turn on
<dobey> :/
<Tassadar> the device needs some love :/
<pmcgowan> Tassadar, what build do you have, not seeing any of that here
<pmcgowan> oh its nexus 5
<pmcgowan> nm
<Tassadar> yeaah)
<dobey> Tassadar: although, what build is it? :)
<Tassadar> 302
<Tassadar> current trusty-proposed
<dobey> ah ok
<dobey> anyone know what the best way to build a string of json out of various string/int/bool variables is in c++?
<dobey> bunch of << with a std::istringstream seems to give me an angry gcc error message
<dobey> nevermind
<joshad> Hello. I did `apt-get install ubuntu-touch' on my tablet. It broke several things, so I wish to remove it, but my main problem is that GDM no longer works.
<joshad> I am always being dropped to failsafe X, I managed to start GDM with the init script, but it is not a DM - what I see is a non-functional Gnome 3 desktop
<joshad> X loads fine, no errors in Xorg.0.log (only in Xorg.failsafe.log)
<joshad> lightvm doesn't start either, no errors in any log. I went over the ubuntu-touch packages, and any diverts that have been added to my system
<joshad> And I don't seem to find anything that touches X config or DM config
<joshad> `apt-get remove ubuntu-touch' doesn't remove most of touch's packages
<joshad> Anyone has any ideas?
<pmcgowan> joshad, not many folks around today, and you have of course discovered that meta package is not meant for the desktop
<dobey> joshad: tried apt-get install --reinstall gdm?
<joshad> I did remove and install it back, that didn't change much. Would --reinstall be different?
<mterry> tedg, you still around?  I see messaging menu changed to only be visible if there were listening applications?  It's not showing up in my split greeter now -- is there an easy fix?  Some service I'm supposed to start?
<dobey> joshad: probably not. the important part is the configuration step
<tedg> mterry, Hmm, not sure. larsu would be the guy to ask.
<tedg> mterry, Do you not have the telelphony backend running?
<tedg> telephony
<mterry> tedg, we have the telepathy backend
<mterry> tedg, telephony is started if we get a call right?
<tedg> mterry, Hmm, you're drifting into territory that I'm not so sure on, but I thought it had to be running all the time to listen to oFono signals.
<mterry> tedg, telepathy-ofono does that
<mterry> which we have running
<tedg> But then what connects to the messaging menu in the desktop session?
<tedg> It has to be something running.
<tedg> Perhaps bfiller knows, oh, but not here.
<mterry> tedg, yeah that's what I'm not sure on.  Which bit of my user session is triggering the menu
<tedg> mterry, Perhaps do an "initctl list" in both cases and diff it ?
<mterry> tedg, I bet it's telephony-service-indicator.conf
<mterry> tedg, which has the annoying "start on started unity8" condition
<tedg> mterry, Yeah, probably should be start on started indicator-messages ?
<mterry> tedg, or indicator-services-start like the rest of them?
<tedg> That'd get it out of the way a bit.
<tedg> It's not an indicator, if it started exporting before indicator-messages was ready, it'd be wasting its time.
<mterry> tedg, fair...
<tedg> That's the nice part about having everything as upstart jobs instead of having everything as dbus activated, we don't have to have a haphazard boot.
<tedg> Which makes ogra_'s charts happy :-)
<mterry> tedg, OK.  fixing that to stop and start on indicator-messages works.  Is that service really tied so explicitly to indicator-messages that the change makes sense?
<tedg> mterry, AFAIK, but I'd definitely talk to the apps folks first.
<mterry> tedg, I'll propose a branch for it, they can explain why it'd be bad
<tedg> Makes sense.
<melvster> I have a 5 month old version of ubuntu touch running on a nexus 4 ... are there any docs on how to upgrade to a newer version?
<mterry> tedg, thanks for the help!
<mterry> melvster, go to your system settings and look at the Updates section?
<tedg> np
<melvster> mterry: thanks will try that now
<dobey> mterry: does that work to go from saucy to trusty? afaik it doesn't
<mterry> dobey, oh really?  :-/
<dobey> melvster: run "ubuntu-device-flash --channel devel"
<dobey> mterry: yeah, afaik
<pmcgowan> dobey, you are correct, gotta go through R
<dobey> mterry: the trusty images aren't in the "stable" channel
<pmcgowan> oops sorrt
<pmcgowan> sorry
<joshad> So, removing all ubuntu-touch packages I found in dpkg.log fixed gdm :)
<pmcgowan> actually on phone stable can be updated
<dobey> pmcgowan: to trusty?
<pmcgowan> dobey, I saw stgraber testing that
<joshad> Is there a safe subset of them I could install? For example, after removing ubuntu-touch Mobile Broadband is gone from my Unity network menu
<dobey> hmm
<pmcgowan> they move trusty to stable and it was supposed to show an update
<pmcgowan> but now devel is post trusty or soon to be
<dobey> will be next week
<dobey> but probably better to be on than stuck on a stale image that's not getting bug fixes :)
<joshad> I'd wish to install safe features, like support for my 3G modem, and touch-friendly apps, mobile telephony, etc. :)
<danielholm> anyone what knows how to get the serial and IMEI codes using QML only? the last cpmment over here states it should work with some kinde of BB library but I don't know what to do next about it since it is not packaged with ubuntu : https://supportforums.blackberry.com/t5/Native-Development/How-to-get-HardwareInfo-in-QML/td-p/2190451
<dobey> danielholm: the QSysInfo add-on (or whatever it's called now after the split up of those things from QtMobility for Qt5) should have a way to get it, afaik.
<danielholm> dobey: thanks!
<dobey> danielholm: you can proabably look at the code for system-settings to see how the "about this phone" panel does it
<dobey> danielholm: of course, confinement might not allow your app to actually get that info, as well :)
<danielholm> dobey: yeah, but I'm afraid that is in C/C++ and I dont understand any of that..
<danielholm> dobey: yeah, I know. this app might have a lot of stuff the confinement wont allow as of today. But I will try to get it to work anyway somehow
<danielholm> dobey: it is a device manager. I want to show the IMEI, serial, IP, phone number and coordinates if needed. if you loose one of your devices, for example
<dobey> hmm
<dobey> danielholm: looks like system-settings isn't getting the imei via c++ at all
<danielholm> dobey: since the app shouldn't be allowed to be uninstalled easily it might need some kind of deeper installation anyway
<dobey> danielholm: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~system-settings-touch/ubuntu-system-settings/trunk/view/head:/plugins/about/PageComponent.qml
<danielholm> dobey: really? :D if you got a link, please share
<danielholm> ah
<dobey> danielholm: http://doc.qt.digia.com/qtmobility-1.2.0/qsystemdeviceinfo.html#imei-prop
<danielholm> thanks mate! :)
<dobey> well, i'm off. later :)
<danielholm> dobey: thanks alot! later :9
<danielholm> :)
<melvster> hmm i pressed search for updates first, has been going about 20 minutes and I'm not sure how to turn it of, or if that is safe ...
<crisna> hi there...i'm trying to install the ubuntu-touch on my nexus 4 and currently stuck at getting udbflash go package
<crisna> go get launchpad.net/phablet-tools/udbflash causes import "launchpad.net/phablet-tools/udbflash": cannot find package
<crisna> can someone point out what the obvious mistake i'm doing?
<pmcgowan> crisna, you want ubuntu-device-flash package from universe
<pmcgowan> or the ppa if earlier than trusty
<crisna> thanks pmcgowan...sorry for missing this before..i'm on OSX
<pmcgowan> crisna, oh
<pmcgowan> then not sure
<pmcgowan> crisna, I think he just changed the name to that
<pmcgowan> rather than udbflash
<crisna> ah..really..let me check that
<promet> hey!
<pmcgowan> crisna, this worked for me  go get launchpad.net/phablet-tools/ubuntu-device-flash
<crisna> pmcgowan - i still see the error[1]  let me try resetting the GOPATH if that makes any difference    	[1]imports launchpad.net/phablet-tools/ubuntu-device-flash: import "launchpad.net/phablet-tools/ubuntu-device-flash": cannot find package
<promet> Does anyone know why the Ubuntu Installer won't detect my Win8 on my laptop? I didn't have the problem previously, and now I have the problem no matter which verion I'm trying to install. Thanks!
<crisna> fyi..finally got it working..mistake was i didn't set the PATH with GOPATH/bin
<melvster> dobey: cool thanks that worked now, I have the latest! :D
#ubuntu-touch 2014-04-19
<protozoa> i'm having some trouble with a nexus 7 (FLO)
<protozoa> its unlocked, booted into bootloader, and ran $ udbflash --bootstrap=true
<protozoa> it went through the whole flashing process, showed the ubuntu logo spinning with a progress bar and all of that
<protozoa> and then it reboots and is stuck at the google screen
<protozoa> i've tried it a couple times now... anyone have a direction they can point me in?
<TyrfingMjolnir> How can I connect letâs say Note 3 or ZR1 to a USB keyboard?
<pa> hi
<pa> question: can i install and run apks on ubuntu touch on a nexus 10, for example?
<pa> ok i understand my question is not exactly a "popular" question. But i guess it would be useful for ubuntu to allow such thing. Even for ubuntu lovers the lack of apps might be an obstacle for the adoption of this OS
<ogra_> no, there is no java on ubuntu touch by default
<ogra_> ah, he is gone
<TyrfingMjolnir> java sucks balls
<TyrfingMjolnir> Why would anyone run java on arm?
<Aki-Thinkpad> TyrfingMjolnir, because java makes it like you have done a lot of work whenever you write code.
<TyrfingMjolnir> At the price og speedbumps?
<Aki-Thinkpad> TyrfingMjolnir, Running a virtual machine on phone hardware; what could be the issue?
<TyrfingMjolnir> slow
<Aki-Thinkpad> TyrfingMjolnir, oh now you are making things up. And java has always been known for beautiful ui's
<TyrfingMjolnir> But I m kinda from the other side; opposite point of view, I donât even run hyper-v or vmware, because there is SmartOS
<TyrfingMjolnir> Java has the ugliest UIs I have ever seen
<TyrfingMjolnir> If you want to do UI, find a designer and do AngularJS
<utouch> hello, is there any official announcement made by the Ubuntu Touch team for the new version of Ubuntu Touch based on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS?
<Aki-Thinkpad> TyrfingMjolnir, not sure if you noticed, but I was being facetious. java is disgusting
<Aki-Thinkpad> utouch, ubuntu touch, or the sdk, or what?
<TyrfingMjolnir> NDK or ubuntu touch
<Aki-Thinkpad> ndk?
<Aki-Thinkpad> nokia development kit?
<TyrfingMjolnir> The android stuff that is not java
<Aki-Thinkpad> ah :P
<TyrfingMjolnir> Native Developer Kit?
<TyrfingMjolnir> Looking to buy a phone
<Aki-Thinkpad> I actually never got into android development
<TyrfingMjolnir> Is Note 3 good for Ubuntu Phone?
<TyrfingMjolnir> Me neither
<TyrfingMjolnir> I do NodeJS, python, OS X, and iOS
<Aki-Thinkpad> when I found out way back that it was just a java front end, and linux was far away from my grasps... meh
<TyrfingMjolnir> I have had all the iPhones apart from 3
<TyrfingMjolnir> But 5 is totally retarded when it comes to battery life
<utouch> softpedia has published an article about a new ubuntu touch version, but i can find the official annoncement. http://news.softpedia.com/news/Canonical-Releases-Ubuntu-Touch-Based-on-Ubuntu-14-04-LTS-438400.shtml
<TyrfingMjolnir> I wish I could run debian XFCE with the ubuntu wiggles
<TyrfingMjolnir> or touch or whatever itâs called
<TyrfingMjolnir> Do you know if there will be a debian touch?
<utouch> any idea guys?
<Thorondor> Hi Guys, just installed a dual boot ubuntu 14.04. I want to push forward to have it working for my use case at least and my 2 first  "showstoppers to solve" are lack of usable messenger and mail client. In my opinion, the cleanest solution for that is to get empathy  and evolution working here.
<Thorondor> Anyone knows What's the current status of that approach?
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, for ubuntu touch? or ubuntu desktop?
<Thorondor> Ubuntu touch
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, yah; you want to refer to the ubuntu-core apps
<Thorondor> is ubuntu-core a kind of package?
<Elleo> Thorondor: iirc various people are working on porting Trojita as an email client
<Elleo> Thorondor: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/EmailClient
<Aki-Thinkpad> mmmm, try a google search. Otherwise, you may have to setup a development client
<Aki-Thinkpad> Elleo, ah yes, trojita was the name
<Aki-Thinkpad> After seeing the screenshots; it looks really nice
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, are you interested in app development, or just running the thing?
<Thorondor> Ah, interesting...
<Thorondor> Well, I'm trying it out at the moment. But the idea is to try to develop what's missing at least for my use model
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, wow great; developing with the ubuntu sdk is a ton of fun
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, you should come join us in #ubuntu-app-devel
<Thorondor> But, isn't the sdk focused on web apps?
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, nope.
<Thorondor> Oh, sound good then
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, you mean like html5? not at all
<Thorondor> I want a native approach
<Thorondor> I'll have to take a look at it
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, i mean ubuntu phone can do them, but ubuntu sdk is all about native
<Elleo> Thorondor: on the messaging side of things UT is already using telepathy under the hood for calls, SMS, MMS, etc. so I'd guess the plan is to hook into that for other services, not sure exactly what people are planning on that front though
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, ever used qtcreator?
<Thorondor> Not really, I was more of the gtk and wxWidgets world in the past, but shouldn't be a problem
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, wow, so you actually have quite a bit of experience under your belt
<Thorondor> I would like to have more, but yes, I have a bit at least...
<Thorondor> be right back
<Aki-Thinkpad> qtcreator is really nice; if you ever did gtk development, I am sure you can appreciate the designer in wt
<dobey> IM really should be built into the existing messaging app, not a separate app
<Aki-Thinkpad> dobey, but there are so many protocols...
<Elleo> Aki-Thinkpad: that's what telepathy is designed to handle
<dobey> Aki-Thinkpad: that's irrelevant
<Aki-Thinkpad> dobey, I don't know how they are doing it, but I think a scopes approach may be neat
<dobey> scopes are not meant for interactive tasks
<Aki-Thinkpad> Elleo, telepathy; i take it that is the app in question?
<Elleo> Aki-Thinkpad: telepathy abstracts you away from the nitty gritty details of each protocol, you just write a telepathy plugin for whatever protocol you're interested in and then apps based around telepathy can make use of it
<dobey> they're for finding things
<Elleo> Aki-Thinkpad: telepathy is the framework used by the messaging app
<Aki-Thinkpad> Elleo, neato :)
<Aki-Thinkpad> although all I really care is about irc
<Elleo> Aki-Thinkpad: it's what empathy also uses (as well as lots of other clients)
<dobey> all you really need for messaging, is the code to associate contacts, and the plug-ins for telepathy and ubuntu-online-accounts, to add your own account and do the protocol work
<Aki-Thinkpad> Elleo, mmmm, empathy needs work... their irc client is rubbish.
<Aki-Thinkpad> or rather
<Aki-Thinkpad> their irc plugin
<Aki-Thinkpad> :P
<dobey> irc would probably be better as a separate app from messaging
<Aki-Thinkpad> dobey, pah; you and your double standards :P
<dobey> group chats are a completely different model from private chats
<Elleo> IRC doesn't quite fit into the IM paradigm as neatly as most
<dobey> Aki-Thinkpad: not at all
<Elleo> there are a few QML IRC clients on MeeGo and Sailfish, you might consider porting one of those
<Aki-Thinkpad> dobey, Dont try to deny it!! IM ON TO YOU!!1
<dobey> whatever
<Aki-Thinkpad> :P
<dobey> none of my standards are double; they are all however, exceptionally high
<Aki-Thinkpad> Elleo, the irc apps are usually surprisingly large
<Aki-Thinkpad> dobey, I highly doublet it.
<dobey> i don't own any doublets
<Aki-Thinkpad> Anyways, my app is gonna be a first of its kind
<Elleo> Aki-Thinkpad: you wouldn't need to touch most of it if you were porting from MeeGo or Sailfish though, just modify the QML components to use Ubuntu's components
<Aki-Thinkpad> ubuntu will be like; Android, eat your heart out.
<dobey> i hope not
<Elleo> Aki-Thinkpad: e.g. https://github.com/communi/communi-sailfish
<Aki-Thinkpad> Introducing the first gnu-APL based logic calculator, employing formal symbolic logic, for a phone ever!
<Aki-Thinkpad> exclusively on ubuntu-touch ;)
<Aki-Thinkpad> anywhoo
<Thorondor> ok I'm back
<Thorondor> So, coming back to the conversation, if the current messaging solution is using telepathy, then I should be able to have google talk and SIP protocols working out of the box?
<Elleo> probably not straight out of the box at present, but I imagine the amount of alteration required would be fairly minimal
<Elleo> as dobey mentioned it'd need a plugin written for ubuntu-online-accounts
<Thorondor> I wonder why they didn't just create an alternative interface for empathy on the touch version
<Elleo> well empathy is GTK based, so it'd be a complete rewrite
<Thorondor> Ahh... mmm
<Thorondor> so on touch it's all QT based?
<Elleo> and since all the important stuff in empathy is actually done by telepathy then there's little difference between a Qt rewrite of empathy and a new Qt client using telepathy
<dobey> Thorondor: because there are a million things to make a working phone platform, and IM isn't extremely high on the list
<Elleo> Thorondor: either Qt or HTML5
<Thorondor> Elleo: got it, makes sense now
<Thorondor> dobey: I know, I was just wondering why I see some different Messaging apps instead of ports of the ones being used on the desktop. But Elleo clarified it.
<Elleo> popey: thanks for the speedy approval on the libre.fm app :)
<popey> np
<Thorondor> I looked at the ubuntu touch core apps launchpad website, and there's no generig messaging app included. The closest is a Facebook app. Am I missing something?
<Thorondor> generic*
<Thorondor> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-coreapps
<bacteu> Thorondor: facebook is probably buying canonical too
<popey> Thorondor: correct, we don't have a generic IM client
<Thorondor> bacteu: come on...
<popey> Thorondor: and we discontinued development on the twitter and facebook apps.
<Thorondor> popey: I saw "friends on the System apps
<Thorondor> this seems to be a messaging effort?
<popey> well, depends on your definition of messaging
<popey> friends is what was previously gwibber, a "social media" client
<popey> so facebook, twitter etc
<Thorondor> Ahh that's different
<popey> I consider "IM" to be msn, jabber, google chat etc
<Thorondor> Yes, that's what I meant
<popey> right, we dont have one of them
<popey> feel free to write one! :D
<Thorondor> :D
<popey> app confinement will make it less useful right now as it will get suspended when not foregrounded
<popey> so you wont see IMs until you open the app
<Thorondor> And there's nothing already ongoing for that purpose?
<popey> not that I'm aware of.
<Thorondor> ok
<Thorondor> What do you mean by app confinments? You mean that some apps get on blobking condition until they are on focus?
<Thorondor> blocking*
<popey> apps by default don't run when not focussed
<Elleo> popey: I wasn't sure if there might be some plan to expand the messaging app, since that's also telepathy based it would seem like a natural entry point for that sort of thing?
<popey> yeah, would make sense
<popey> as would sip in the dialler app
<Elleo> yeah
<Elleo> I don't actually know anything concrete in that direction though, it'd just seem the most natural approach to me
<Thorondor> popey: Oh really?  That's a surprise for me... I thought it should behave like the desktop
<Thorondor> Wow, this looks like a showstopper...
<Thorondor> I'm reading something on ubuntu touch app confinement, and looks like you can inform what kind of handling your app needs. It would make sense to say "This app could not be suspended"
<bacteu> can't you just copy android's approach for that sort of thing?
<Elleo> Thorondor: there was some debate on the mailinglist a while back about that sort of thing, I'm not sure if there's been any plans made to do things differently though
<Elleo> Thorondor: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg04736.html <-- that's the thread, not sure if there's anything more recent
<Elleo> Thorondor: in some cases there are services being created (like media-hub for playing music, videos, etc.) for common use cases where something needs to continue in the background
<Thorondor> Elleo: Yes, I'm sure it has to be designed in a usable way. It doesn't make sense to have every app suspended while in background
<Thorondor> There are policies and you register the appropriate policies for your app
<Thorondor> If I'm getting it right, it makes sense
<Elleo> Thorondor: yep, unfortunately (from the perspective of some apps) there isn't a policy for "please don't suspend me" at the moment though
<dobey> Thorondor: eh? the SMS app is the generic messaging app
<Thorondor> dobey: Makes sense to have SMS together with the other IM protocols
<Thorondor> dobey: Do you know the exact project name for this app?
<darthlukan> Hello! I have an issue with Wifi on my Nexus 7 flo device on the latest Trusty (the only version of ubuntu touch I've tried on this device).  I have no options for connecting to wifi when in the WiFi settings menu.
<Thorondor> I found the phone app in the Core set, but it says it's obsolete
<dobey> Thorondor: no, the title of the app on the phone is "Messaging" though
<darthlukan> When I enter adb shell and then run "ifconfig", only the loopback device is listed
<Thorondor> dobey: Originally the phone-app handled dialer, messaging and contacts management
<Thorondor> Got it: https://launchpad.net/messaging-app
<dobey> yes that
<miseria> "vamos por el mundo, odiando y rechazando, aspectos que creemos despreciable de los demas y de uno mismo" bienvenidos: http://castroruben.com *temo_a_un_ser_sin_rival*
<darthlukan> nevermind, got it up and running :)
<Thorondor> No sign of telepathy on messaging-app
<Thorondor> It's a tiny app by the way
<Lotuspsychje> Does touch got updated on trusty release?
<Guest005> I am a rookie developer.
<Guest005> I would like to learn how to install a Ubuntu Touch on my device but there is not on a list.
<Guest005> like LG G2.
<bacteu> Guest005: step 1, buy a nexus device
<Guest37661> hello
<Guest005> I do not want to waste my money
<Guest37661> i will download ubuntu for android
<bacteu> ubuntu for android is a dead project is it not?
<Guest005> dunno
<Guest37661> real?
<dobey> Guest37661: do you mean "ubuntu for android" or "ubuntu touch, which runs on android devices" exactly?
<Hounge> Anyone get touch working on the moto razr m jellybean yet?
<rafaeldefazio> Hello everybody
<rafaeldefazio> how are you?
<rafaeldefazio> I need some help
<rafaeldefazio> ...
<Scifig> Hi, could anyone please point me to some instructions on how to install Ubuntu Touch preinstalled i386 image onto an x86 tablet? I tried both extracting the tar file to USB drive and dd copy "system-i386+generic_x86.img" to USB drive. I am still unable to boot using that USB drive.
<Scifig> Boot is stuck with a blinking cursor. I am trying to bring an unused ExoPC tablet to life. Appreciate any help.
#ubuntu-touch 2014-04-20
<Thorondor> Elleo: Interesting discussion the one you pointed out. Unfortunately it seems it didn't settle into a plan of actions. However somone suggested separating app into daemon/UI components and seemd to me that this is possible as of today. Not sure though.
<dobey> Thorondor: for IM? i think there is already a telepathy daemon running in the background
<Thorondor> dobey: In that case it should be possible to get access to multiple Messaging services by using it, and we just need to connect the messaging app to it in a way that everytime the app gets the focus it shows you the state of your active IM services. However we would need a notification callback to handle new messages too.
<dobey> Thorondor: i'm pretty sure there is already some sort of notification support for sms, the same should be used for im
<Thorondor> dobey: Sure
<Thorondor> dobey: Do you know how can I writ ethe pipe character in the terminal app on touch?
<Thorondor> I want to check if there's *telepathy* running
<Thorondor> ps -A|grep telepathy
<dobey> no idea
<Thorondor> hehe, there's a lot to improve :)
<Thorondor> I think only CTRL+ signals are handled right now
<Thorondor> The keyboard for terminal should have a special layout
<Thorondor> By the way, there's a telepathy-mission-control package
<Thorondor> So, as you said it should be running back there
<dobey> why not use adb shell and do ps afx in there?
<Thorondor> dobey: Because I'm just learning Ubuntu touch, I first try what I'm used to use. Thanks for the suggestion
<dobey> Thorondor: you've developed any apps for android before?
<Thorondor> My first phone is my current nexus 4, and I bought it because I believe Ubuntu Touch is what I want to use. So I'm just starting in this context. Didn't want to try Android for development.
<Thorondor> I don't want a phone, I want a portable computer with ubuntu and phone capabilities
<dobey> Ah. Well, the full convergence story is a long way off.
<Thorondor> Yeah, but it seems like a good moment to start playing with it
<Thorondor> Solving IM and mail client, I can try to use it regularly
<Thorondor> then push for power consumption
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, :D
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, the ui is fantastic. I can't wait to get my first official device.
<Thorondor> Aki-Thinkpad: Yes, it looks pretty good. I still don't like the white background, but for sure could be customized.
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, oh they will probably include a high contrast theme, and a darker background
<Thorondor> I like dark background, saves battery too
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, do you know how to get started in app development? I don't mind walking you through the basics
<Thorondor> Well, I have been reading a bit. But didn't go to the details yet. I already got a branch from messaging-app in my pc
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, yah you are probably fine :P
<Thorondor> I have to see how the croxx compiling is being done
<Thorondor> cross compiling
<Thorondor> and the procedure to get my experimental code tested on my device
<Thorondor> I have the feeling that things are not being done the same way it works on the desktop
<Thorondor> I'll have to give the IDE a try
<Thorondor> So, in summary: We have a telepathy daemon running on the phone already. The phone-app is a telepathy client app and so has to be the messaging-app to handle IM. So I should try to enhance messaging app to be a generig IM app.
<Thorondor> Time to sleep now, but seems like I have a plan to go. Nest move would be to take a look at the recommended development flow from code to test on the target device (nexus 4)
<Thorondor> Thanks a lot guys for the feedback and help
<Thorondor> Aki-Thinkpad: Thanks for the help offer. I'll remember that if I got any issues trying to follow the development flow.
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, If I can, i'll help :P
<Aki-Thinkpad> i am far from expert
<Aki-Thinkpad> Thorondor, please though come hang out in #ubuntu-app-devel
<Thorondor> It doesn't matter. It's just about getting the different bits of knowledge together and make it work. I'm just starting to document myself about the touch development model.
<Thorondor> Aki-Thinkpad: Ok, I will thanks
<Aki-Thinkpad> o/
<Thorondor> Ok, Good Night
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu touch has new image togheter with trusty release?
<lotuspsychje> i would like to retry it on my nexus7
<lotuspsychje> can someone confirm if flip horizontal have been fixxed on ubuntu-touch on nexus7??
<wponso> i am new here and wanna use ubuntu touch in Iron Rock Motorola Iden/3G device
<wponso> does anyone could send me more information about??
<Aki-Thinkpad> wponso, have you checked the ubuntu devices wiki?
<wponso> Yes, Aki, but I cant find information about the Iden part
<Aki-Thinkpad> wponso, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<Aki-Thinkpad> Iden?
<wponso> Iden is the Nextel type of carrier phone
<wponso> there are GSM, WCDMA and nothing abonut Iden
<wponso> Iron Rock = XT626 Morotola
<lotuspsychje> will this guide install latest touch on my nexus? http://itsfoss.com/install-ubuntu-touch-nexus-7-2013/
<Aki-Thinkpad> wponso, I am no expert here, so take this with a grain of salt
<Aki-Thinkpad> wponso, but I do not think anyone has made an image for your device yet
<Aki-Thinkpad> ie, if you want to get ubuntu touch working on that phone, it looks like you will have to port it yourself
<wponso> Yes Aki, I know that anyone done this, but If I have more document about, I can start this
<wponso> ...and share it :D
<Aki-Thinkpad> wponso, I would start by finding the android version code name for your device
<wponso> Android 2.3
<Aki-Thinkpad> wponso, for my own part, I tried porting a later release for a nook tablet, but found myself overwhelmed with the complexity
<Aki-Thinkpad> wponso, that is not what I mean.
<wponso> sure
<Aki-Thinkpad> wponso, every device has a code name
<wponso> Wait a little minute
<wponso> Ginger Bread
<Aki-Thinkpad> *facepalm*
<Aki-Thinkpad> nope, thats not what I mean either
<Aki-Thinkpad> :P
<Aki-Thinkpad> here
<Aki-Thinkpad>  Galaxy Nexus
<Aki-Thinkpad> 	
<Aki-Thinkpad> maguro (GSM/HSPA+ Variant)
<Aki-Thinkpad> Nexus 4
<Aki-Thinkpad> 	
<Aki-Thinkpad> mako
<Aki-Thinkpad> Nexus 7
<Aki-Thinkpad> 	
<Aki-Thinkpad> grouper
<Aki-Thinkpad> Nexus 10
<Aki-Thinkpad> 	
<Aki-Thinkpad> manta
<Aki-Thinkpad> ergo, galaxy nexus == maguro
<Aki-Thinkpad> nexus4 == mako
<lotuspsychje> Aki-Thinkpad: did you test the nex touch yet?
<lotuspsychje> new
<wponso> I thing that I need some drivers to get the succesfull port
<Aki-Thinkpad> lotuspsychje, not yet. I don't have a device to even use it on.
<lotuspsychje> Aki-Thinkpad: ok tnx im gonna retry it then
<Aki-Thinkpad> wponso, do you have any experience with android and its kernel?
<wponso> no I am not test the new touch, I wann try with this device
<wponso> I ported other devices to new android versions, but never try with Ubuntu
<wponso> tryed
<wponso> tried, sorry
<wponso> :)
<Aki-Thinkpad> wponso, well that is a start. XDA forums might be a good place to start, or askubuntu
<wponso> XDA has fell documents about ubuntu, more about Android.
<Aki-Thinkpad> wponso, Its complicated; I gave up, and that was with an existing image.
<Aki-Thinkpad> But I have little patience for documentation
<Aki-Thinkpad> Anyways, good luck; I need to get back to work on my app :p
<wponso> ok, I will try contact with askubuntu, but my impression is that they don't share many information about
<wponso> tks for patience and time
<wponso> good lucky
<Aki-Thinkpad> wponso, askubuntu is pretty good, but you have to know how to ask.
<Aki-Thinkpad> wponso, and you can put bounties on your question
<wponso> I will try, but I found old solutions out of UbuntuAsk, in the past. Some of theese questions was ignored (it was my impression). But I will try (I am doing this now)
<wponso> Hey Aki, that is my post http://askubuntu.com/questions/451117/porting-ubuntu-touch-on-motorola-xt624-iron-rock
<nerve2009> hii.. i want to put the ubuntu touch on my samsung galaxy note n7000. i have followed the guide at ubuntu wiki as they provide.. the problem is, i can't boot my device (hold power button + volume down + home)
<lotuspsychje> whats the command to install new ubuntu touch?
<lotuspsychje> wiki shows the developing version
<lotuspsychje> this is what i get on my nexus7
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@RooTBoX:~$ ubuntu-device-flash --channel=trusty --bootstrap
<lotuspsychje> 2014/04/20 09:38:44 Device is |flo|
<lotuspsychje> 2014/04/20 09:38:45 Flashing version 302 from trusty channel and server https://system-image.ubuntu.com to device flo
<lotuspsychje> 2014/04/20 09:39:10 Get https://system-image.ubuntu.com/gpg/image-master.tar.xz.asc: EOF
<j_huddle> Hi there, I'm wondering if anyone can help me anwer a few questions about device compatibility...
<Aki-Thinkpad> they always leave so quickly
<lotuspsychje> whats the command to install the new ubuntu-touch? wiki shows still the dev version
<Aki-Thinkpad> lotuspsychje, report that as a bug.
<Aki-Thinkpad> lotuspsychje, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntudeveloperportal
<Aki-Thinkpad> presuming that it is outdated
<lotuspsychje> well im not sure
<lotuspsychje> cant find any tutorial on the new touch version
<Aki-Thinkpad> lotuspsychje, why not just download the dev version?
<lotuspsychje> Aki-Thinkpad, ive tested the dev version already
<Aki-Thinkpad> o_O
<lotuspsychje> Aki-Thinkpad, thats not the same as new ubuntu touch right?
<Aki-Thinkpad> :)
<Aki-Thinkpad> don't know. I am assuming (not an expert here), that no stable release will be made until they get it on the phone.
<Aki-Thinkpad> their bq phones etc
<lotuspsychje> Aki-Thinkpad, i found articles about they released a new ubuntu touch
<lotuspsychje> togheter with 14.04
<Aki-Thinkpad> shows you what I know~
<Elleo> lotuspsychje: it's just a matter of setting what channel you want with ubuntu-device-flash, e.g. --channel=stable (or --channel=trusty) will give you stable, --channel=devel will give you devel and --channel=devel-proposed will give you the most experimental images
<Aki-Thinkpad> oh interesting
<Elleo> you won't see much difference between devel and stable at the moment though, I think they're probably the same image since I don't think anything has been promoted to devel since the release
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, do you know if the new version fixxed horizontal flip?
<Elleo> lotuspsychje: in what way?
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, yes but the image has changed then the image from few weeks ago right?
<Elleo> lotuspsychje: yes
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, ive installed ubuntu touch dev version on my nexus7 weeks ago
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, so the plan is to test the newer version right now
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, but the guide to install i followed, didnt work anymore
<Elleo> lotuspsychje: what about it didn't work?
<Elleo> lotuspsychje: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install is pretty much the definitive guide
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, after the command to download, it failed on me
<lotuspsychje> http://itsfoss.com/install-ubuntu-touch-nexus-7-2013/
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, after this line: ubuntu-device-flash --channel=trusty --bootstrap
<Elleo> lotuspsychje: if you've already got an image you don't want to follow those instructions
<Elleo> those are for setting up a clean image
<Elleo> just "ubuntu-device-flash --channel=trusty" is enough
<lotuspsychje> gave me aok lemme retry that one holdon
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, and that will install latest trusty image right?
<Elleo> yes
<lotuspsychje> ok tnx :p
<Elleo> although if you're interested in testing the latest (relatively stable) stuff in the future you'll want to flash the devel channel
<Elleo> the trusty image won't change much from this point since it's "stable" now
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, i wanna try the most stable release that came out togheter with trusty
<Elleo> (at the moment trusty and devel are identical, but that won't be the case when people start working again next week)
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, isnt there an update function after from terminal?
<Elleo> lotuspsychje: there's a gui update function in the system settings
<Elleo> iirc it only works if you don't enable a writable image
<lotuspsychje> ic
<Elleo> but the trusty image won't be changing any more, so the next update on that channel will be in (presumably) 6 months time with the next release
<lotuspsychje> thats np
<lotuspsychje> if i can see the renewed touch ill be glad
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, lotuspsychje@R00TB00K:~$ adb reboot bootloader
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@R00TB00K:~$ ubuntu-device-flash --channel=trusty
<lotuspsychje> 2014/04/20 15:49:57 Expecting the device to expose an adb interface...
<lotuspsychje> 2014/04/20 15:49:57 exit status 255
<lotuspsychje> this is what i get
<Elleo> lotuspsychje: is your device booted up and connected?
<Elleo> it should just be running normal in UT
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, oh ok
<lotuspsychje> from android?
<Elleo> no, Ubuntu Touch
<lotuspsychje> i dont have touch installed on it yet
<Elleo> ah, sorry, when you said you'd installed an earlier image I assumed you still had it installed
<Elleo> in that case you do want the --bootstrap option
<lotuspsychje> ok
<Elleo> and yes, you want to be in android at the time
<lotuspsychje> lets try :p
<Elleo> oh no hang on
<Elleo> for bootstrap you need to be in the bootloader
<lotuspsychje> yes thats where i go
<lotuspsychje> adb reboot bootloader
<Elleo> is the bootloader unlocked?
<lotuspsychje> yes
<Elleo> and the device is in usb debugging mode?
<lotuspsychje> yes :p
<Elleo> in that case I don't know why it's not being detected by adb
<Elleo> best thing I can suggest is to run through the steps here and see if there's anything you might have missed/those other instructions missed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<lotuspsychje> yesss
<lotuspsychje> there it goes
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@R00TB00K:~$ ubuntu-device-flash --channel=trusty --bootstrap
<lotuspsychje> 2014/04/20 15:55:38 Expecting the device to be in the bootloader... waiting
<lotuspsychje> 2014/04/20 15:55:38 Device is |flo|
<lotuspsychje> 2014/04/20 15:55:39 Flashing version 302 from trusty channel and server https://system-image.ubuntu.com to device flo
<Elleo> ah, cool
<lotuspsychje> so channel trusty would be the latest stable 14.04 touch version?
<lotuspsychje> and channel dev the develope version?
<Elleo> yes
<lotuspsychje> there are so many folders on that index
<Elleo> the basic procedure at the moment is that work happens in "devel-proposed", then if it doesn't fail too many import tests it gets promoted to "devel", then every ~6 months the latest "devel" image gets promoted to the "stable" channel
<Elleo> I would suspect that might change a bit once consumer releases are available, as there might well be ongoing maintenance work on the "stable" channel or something too, but I'm just guessing there
<lotuspsychje> i see, every folder new stage
<lotuspsychje> well you guys done great work, congrats for that
<Elleo> :)
<lotuspsychje> it can only get better the comming time
<lotuspsychje> i dont wanna get stuck on insecure android
<lotuspsychje> ok downloading done and showing purple ubuntu screen
<Elleo> first boot will take a while
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu wheel turning :p
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, it worked mate tnx alot!
<Elleo> great :)
<lotuspsychje> looking good :p
<lotuspsychje> much smoother then last image
<Elleo> good
<lotuspsychje> it might be interesting to share that to users somehow Elleo
<lotuspsychje> that ubuntu-device-flash --channel=trusty --bootstrap
<Elleo> well it's pretty much all on the wiki page, althought perhaps not as well explained as it could be
<Elleo> although*
<lotuspsychje> i only saw a few video's on youtube running the new image yet
<Elleo> the focus there is on getting people on to the devel image since that's where most new stuff happens
<lotuspsychje> ah i understand
<lotuspsychje> so channel=devel with also get latest 'test' version of the renewed trusty right?
<lotuspsychje> and from there users can help the community?
<Elleo> yeah, pretty much
<lotuspsychje> tnx alot for the clear info :p
<lotuspsychje> happy nexus user now here
<Elleo> good :)
<lotuspsychje> is it possible to install classic terminal packages as nmap or so?
<Elleo> lotuspsychje: yep, if you switch to having a writable image by doing "phablet-config writable-image"
<Elleo> you can then just do "sudo apt-get install nmap"
<Elleo> (default password is "phablet")
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, can i add that phablet line in terminal?
<Elleo> lotuspsychje: you need to do that from your desktop machine
<lotuspsychje> ah okay
<Elleo> (with the tablet/phone attached via usb)
<lotuspsychje> and can i change the default root pass?
<Elleo> yep
<lotuspsychje> nicely
<lotuspsychje> installing phablet-tools :p
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@R00TB00K:~$ phablet-config writable-image
<lotuspsychje> PING launchpad.net (91.189.89.222) 56(84) bytes of data.
<lotuspsychje> worked
<lotuspsychje> and my new trusty desktop shows nexus icon mounted
<lotuspsychje> thats sweet
<Elleo> :)
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, phablet worked as root, now how do i change root pass?
<Elleo> lotuspsychje: just run passwd as phablet
<lotuspsychje> lets see
<Elleo> there isn't a root password as such, since it's using sudo
<Elleo> so it authenticates phablet as root via phablet's own password (just like on desktop Ubuntu)
<lotuspsychje> passwd: password update succesfully
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> and installing nmap
<lotuspsychje> yes yes
<lotuspsychje> Elleo, your the lifesaver of the day :p
<Elleo> glad to be of help :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<echoe> How does ubuntu touch perform on the nexus 7 let, anyone know?
<echoe> I mean lte
<Tassadar> the 2013 version?
<echoe> Yeah.
<Tassadar> only the wifi version is officialy supported, and it works pretty well on it
<echoe> I have it on a nexus 4 and it's ... Disappointing right now. ...... oh, well then
<Tassadar> I maintain unofficial server with daily builds for the lte version, and the mobile data work on it
<Tassadar> it's not gonna work better than n4
<echoe> alas. Thanks for the answer though.
<Tassadar> the OS is still very much in development, so yeah
<echoe> Yeah ... I heard summer was the target for a usable daily driver?
<echoe> Hopefully it'll be much better in a few months :)
<Tassadar> "daily driver" is rather relative term
<Tassadar> many people here use it daily and are fine with it, but for me it's not there yet
<bacteu> I suppose if you use it daily you forget how much more responsive android is in comparison
<echoe> it really is relative. Idk, I have an iphone so it would have to do a lot. :p
<bacteu> echoe: iphones do what they do well. Maybe once ubuntu touch moves beyond just basic smartphone stuff and onto the meaty stuff like docking it will become interesting
<echoe> definitely. I mean, first one would hope they can work on the keyboard a bit ... idk. Maybe I'll look into it and can code ubuntu touch swype. x.x and make it so the keyboard doesn't hang out so much or at least has a button to close ...
<Tassadar> in my opinion, it is a bit unfair to compare ubuntu touch, which doesn't even have it's own device released, with systems which have been out for years right now
<bacteu> meh, all it would have to take is canonical to license myriad's alien dalvik like jolla are doing or implement their own.. and boom ubuntu had android apps
<Elleo> echoe: you can close the keyboard by swiping down from the top of it
<bacteu> imo ubuntu should have gone with more of a softkey approach rather than the guestures
<bacteu> I'm not really sold
<dobey> bacteu: eh, gestures are fine as long as they're done right. softkeys tend to be a pain. for webos for example has all the gestures pretty much perfect
<bacteu> has canonical hired anyone who worked on webos?
<bacteu> or did google grab them all?
<dobey> i don't know if anyone who worked on webos works at canonical (i didn't personally know anyone that worked on webos, at least afaik)
<bacteu> dobey: Matias Duarte comes to mind.
<dobey> i don't know him
<bacteu> hes the guy behind android's current look
<dobey> ok
<echoe> It would be nice if there were more hints built into the is about how to do things
<echoe> *os
<dobey> in android?
<echoe> Like, is there a way to close an open process in ubuntu?
<echoe> No, in ubuntu touch
<dobey> swipe all the way across the screen from the left edge, long press on the app under "Recent" in the apps scope, and then press on the [x] that shows up
<echoe> See I thought I could flick them away like webos
<echoe> I'll try that when I get home ...
<lakin> So I know the instructions here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install - say that it can take a long time, but how long should I be staring at a spinning ubuntu logo with an orange progress bar?  It's already been about 2 hours.
<lakin> The terminal where I issued the `ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel --bootstrap` command has long since given me back my control so it doesn't seem as if my box is actively doing anything with the device. (A nexus 7 2013 if that matters)
<lakin> Ok, using the recovery to wipe/format /data and the cache and then trying again worked. :)
<proxypirate> Hello ubuntu-touch users!
<proxypirate> Hey guys so I have ubuntu touch on my nexus 7 flo model tablet....but what I am wonder is if ubuntu touch is still being updated?
<proxypirate>  I installed ubuntu touch about 1.5 months ago so I want to know if I download ubuntu touch and flash it again if any new updates have taken place
<bacteu> not really
<bacteu> I mean, of course there's been updates
<bacteu> but.. you know..
<proxypirate> Nothing too significant
<proxypirate> Ubuntu touch was one of thr reasons I went out and bought the nexus 7 flo
<proxypirate> I cant wait till it is 100%
<proxypirate>  I am now debating whether or not to buy the nexus 5 or the htc one m8
<proxypirate> the nexus 5 has ubuntu touch available right?
<bacteu> the nexus 5 would be about half the price I'd imagine
<bacteu> proxypirate: no official builds yet, but there's community builds
<proxypirate> For nexus 5?
<bacteu> yes
<proxypirate>  Ya...the nexus 5 is a great phone but I would order the 32Gb from google since none of the US wireless carriers are offering the 32gb model in stores
<proxypirate> the htc m8 comes with 32gb internal storage and has takes sdcards up to 128gb
<proxypirate> But there is way more available for the nexus 5...
<proxypirate> Decisions decisions
<Randy_O> I'm trying to run a QML app on my nexus 4 and I've been getting this error "/usr/share/qtcreator/ubuntu/scripts/qtc_device_run_app finished with code 255" This has worked before, suddenly stopped
#ubuntu-touch 2015-04-13
<rpadovani> Anyone on vivid has this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/powerd/+bug/1443278
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1443278 in powerd "powerd takes eternity to boot on pc" [Undecided,New]
<Apacheuk> question: if I'm on my phone how do I report a bug to launchpad... Is ubuntu-bug or similar available?
<Apacheuk> Morning by the way
<robin-hero> Hi all! Anybody knows what's up wtith the OTA update?
<Mirv> robin-hero: I think there's no absolutely final date yet for the next OTA, but hopefully this week...
<Mirv> the last I know was that there's one more bug being investigated, but the fix could land today
<robin-hero> Mirv: Thanks, I can't wait for the battery life improvments, It is very fustrating that I need to carry my charger everywhere I go :)
<Mirv> yeah, the battery life improvements coming look awesome :)
<sturmflut-work> Battery life is already not that bad IMO
<robin-hero> sturmflut-work: I need to charge my phone everyday.
<sturmflut-work> robin-hero: That is absolutely normal compared to every Android phone I ever owned.
<sturmflut-work> The last phone I owned that didn't have to be charged every day was a Siemens M35.
<robin-hero> sturmflut-work: The battery decreases 3% for me every hour,even nights, when I don't do anything
<robin-hero> I tried the -propsed channel, and my phone can operate for 2,5 days with the same usage (1 day for r20).
<robin-hero> I think it is much better
<juzzlin_> robin-hero: check with e.g. top if there's some process constantly consuming CPU time
<robin-hero> juzzlin_: It is normal with the r20 relase... this is why I'm looking forward to the OTA update :)
<juzzlin_> yeah, me too :)
<Jame> Hello ï¼ I add a PushClient component in .qml file, and in .apparmor file add "push-notification-client" policy, the PushClient signal an error:qml    : GOT ERROR bad auth
<Jame> the above error disappear after I add "ubuntu-push-helper" template in .apparmor file,but  my application will crash, at the same time report the following information:UbuntuClientIntegration: connection to Mir server failed. Check that a Mir server is running, and the correct socket is being used and is accessible. The shell may have rejected the incoming connection, so check its log file
<ogra_> sturmflut-work, well, the battery life doesnt even remotely reach the 8 days standby the OTA brings :)
<Jame> which hero will hep me ?
<ogra_> Jame, wait for aquaruis, he might be able (but is usually rather around in european evenings) ... he wrote https://caxton.herokuapp.com/ and should know a bit about using the notification system
<robin-hero> ogra_: do you have a screenshot of this super battery life? :)
<ogra_> robin-hero, only some on the way towards that ... the last one was http://i.imgur.com/xq472i3.png ... 43% after 5 days
<robin-hero> what a pity :)
<ogra_> i sadly hit bug 1442166 which drained the weak battery before i could take a final screenshot
<ubot5> bug 1442166 in Canonical System Image "Calendar alarms rings forever if Low Battery dialog visible" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1442166
<robin-hero> do you know any info about the OTA update? Will it release this week?
<ogra_> but if you dont touch the device at all 8-9 days should be easy
<ogra_> we hope so
<ogra_> there is one nasty bug that still is in verification currently
<robin-hero> ogra_: so if this bug will be fix in time, bq should sign-off too, right?
<ogra_> right
<robin-hero> so I think it is more likely end of the week
<Jame> thank ogra_. do you have example about the use of unity-notification? I want to send a notification.
<ogra_> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/platform/guides/push-notifications-client-guide/ only this
<ogra_> i have never used it myself
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday and happy Scrabble Day! :-D
<mandel> Elleo, morning! I believed I found bug in osk, imaging the following scenarion. TextField with DoubleValidator (not setting the locale) and an input hint for real numbers. The osk in this cases shows the numberpad, which is correct BUT it does not use the input locale to decide which is the decimals separator
<mandel> Elleo, at that point, the user can just use '.' to separate decimals, yet if his locale is french or some other that uses ',' the double validator wont allow him to write decimal numbers
<mandel> Elleo, so, osk such check the input locale and change the decimal separator accordingly. I fixed this in my app by setting the double validator to always use "en" as the locale, but it should not be done like that..
<Jame> I found example in unity-notifications/examples/interactive-notification.py, and I push it to my device and run this python script, but report error:ImportError: No module named 'pynotify'
<Jame> I need to install pynotify module but I do not know how to install
<Jame> in my phone
<faenil> abeato: morning :) how can I edit the apn file? trying to workaround https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1435776
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1435776 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "NM does not activate a valid ofono context" [High,Confirmed]
<faenil> I tried editing gprs file, but it gets reset when I disable/enable mobile data
<abeato> faenil, you need to stop ofono first
<faenil> and then it will keep the changes?
<abeato> faenil, yes
<faenil> I should have thought about that...great, thanks ;)
<abeato> faenil, np, a fix for this should land soon, it was a problem with NM
<Elleo> mandel: yeah, that sounds like a bug, could you create a bug report?
<mandel> Elleo, if you give me the project I will + add a small example code :)
<faenil> abeato: ah ok :) maybe I should just wait for the fix so that I can test the upgrade path and see if it really fixes it
<faenil> is there any eta about that?
<faenil> is "soon" 1 day or 1 week? :D
<Elleo> mandel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-keyboard
<abeato> faenil, not sure, but say 1 week... anyway I am thinking that what you need to do is add some random password to your APN, you can do that from the APN editor
<abeato> no need to stop ofono/edit manually the gpra file
<abeato> *gprs
<faenil> I tried that but it didn't work?
<abeato> faenil, why? it did not really change the password?
<faenil> abeato: it's not possible to switch to the custom apn, the tick doesn't move
<abeato> faenil, oh, some APN editor bug :-(
<faenil> hehe ;)
<abeato> ok, I guess you will have to edit manually the gprs file
<faenil> sure, np
<faenil> abeato: works \o/
<abeato> faenil, :)
<mariogrip> YES! I got wifi working!!!
<brunch875> Congratulations man!
<faenil> congrats :)
<lotuspsychje> mariogrip: on wich device
<mariogrip> Oneplus one
<lotuspsychje> nice
<brunch875> I want to be in the utouch mailing list but membership for the ubuntu phone team is necessary. Is there any responsibility involved or can anyone join?
<_1_butt> wet
<robin-hero> brunch875: anybody can join
<brunch875> neato, I'll join right away
<_1_butt> anybody?
<_1_butt> who speaks English?
<_1_butt> and is wet?
<_1_butt> nah?
<lotuspsychje> _1_butt: this is not the channel for dating or whatsoever
<brunch875> considering human body is about 65% water and this is an english channel...
<_1_butt> then what is this channel for?
<lotuspsychje> _1_butt: ubuntu touch talk
<brunch875> ubuntu is a gnu/linux operating system based on debian
<brunch875> touch is because the phone is tactile
<_1_butt> wtf
<_1_butt> where can I find pretty horny girls?
<_1_butt> suggest
<brunch875> try the internet/google
<brunch875> this is more about software development
<lotuspsychje> popey: alive?
<popey> of course
<_1_butt> Oh I see
<popey> _1_butt: stop
<_1_butt> I heard this was for casual dating
<popey> you can leave now
<_1_butt> sorry nerds tc
<popey> ogra_: my 64GB microsd card arrived, it's pre-formatted exfat
<ogra_> popey, yeah, you need to reformat it as vfat
<popey> yeah, did that and discovered a (known) but that it doesn't remount until you remove the card and re-insert
<ogra_> i think mandel fixed that for the OTA
<brunch875> when is the OTA hitting us?
<brunch875> was it this week?
<mandel> popey, should have been fixed, yes
<brunch875> I can't wait :)
<popey> mandel: its fixed in vivid, but is it fixed in rtm?
<mandel> popey, it should, since ciborium is the same in both AFAIK
<popey> ok
<popey> thanks
<mandel> popey, is there is any issue let me know, but the app should be a lot better now
<popey> I'll try it on my proposed phone
<mandel> popey, I nearly re-wrote the entire thing.. and I should find time to make more changes... time.. I need more time :-/
<popey> don't we all :)
<Saviq> mardy, hey, can you maybe point me as to where I should file a bug about the U1 SSO web login? when I mess up my password, after correcting it, the SSO process doesn't continue but I'm left in the U1 website
<AskUbuntu> Turning on auto-expunge emails in Dekko? | http://askubuntu.com/q/608698
<Se7> hi guys ubuntu wubi still downlodable?
<popey> Se7: Linux User Group goes full circle. From LUG to Hackspace and now LUG in a Hackspace.Â http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/gllug/2015-April/081927.html
<popey> bah
<popey> Se7: http://releases.ubuntu.com/14.10/
<mandel> ogra, do you know if ubuntu-device-flash has an argument to pass the serial of the device to flash? similar to adb -s FOO
<mandel> oh, not a single -s but --serial, ogra_ ignore me :)
<Se7> tnx popey :)
<davmor2> popey: Se7: that version of wubi might not be what you expect.  It might only be the one on the image which is the menu to trigger a reboot in windows
<popey> is that all it does now?
<popey> wow
<davmor2> popey: it give a bunch of info and stuff and allows you to reboot into the live cd session,  there was no-one really supporting the wubi back end and it didn't work on uefi setups so was becoming more unstable as time went on
<davmor2> Se7: ^
<popey> right
<Se7> ^
<davmor2> popey: was dropped as an installer pre 14.04 if I recall correctly
<mardy> Saviq: I'm afraid I don't know. It 's probably one of these, but I don't know which: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntuone/+related-projects
<mardy> Saviq: dobey will know
<Se7> tnx for the answer
<Saviq> mardy, thanks :)
<mariogrip> is there any way of setting 24hours time format?
<ogra_> it is pulled from your locale settings automatically
<ogra_> set a proper locale and you get the proper time format
<mariogrip> i set it to English (UK), but so there isn't any way of having it changing that without changing language?
<mariogrip> it worked btw
<ogra_> not currently, no
<ogra_> you would have to hack LC_TIME to point to a locale that has the format you want
<jgdx> is there a backup tool for the phone?
<popey> there's rsync ã
<jgdx> that's just too high level
<jgdx> would be nice to have ubuntu-device-backup and ubuntu-device-restore :)
<ogra_> yes
<victor_bq> some bq costumers have asked me for backup tool
<popey> victor_bq: to backup their data?
<victor_bq> yes
<victor_bq> due to some bugs/behaviours that requiere wipe
<popey> I can think of two ways to do this. Either as an app on the device (harder) or a desktop app (easier)
<popey> I backup my phone every 6 hours with rsnapshot. But yes, a simpler tool would be ideal.
<davmor2> jgdx: I have steps that you could turn into something that could be command run https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LandingTeam/SiloTestingGuidelines bottom of the page
<jgdx> davmor2, cool, looking
<davmor2> jgdx: only issue is you need adb in recovery for that to work so not ideal
<robin-hero> nik90: Hi! I saw there is a "reboot" branch for the weather app in launchpad. Could you tell me (or link me) some informations when it will be change the default weather app?
<jgdx> davmor2, ideal for customers you mean?
<davmor2> jgdx: as a solution not ideal but I assume there is probably a way around it
<dobey> Saviq: a problem with login.u.c, or with the u1 account plug-in in system settings?
<studio_> hi
<popey> hello
<studio_> ok, i figured out how to build cifs nfs and nfsd modules for the bq e4.5, but i have to re-flash ubuntu on it to test it
<studio_> :)
<ogra_> studio_, there is a readme file in the tree btw ... did you find it, i think the build instructions have been tested
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, I checked my phone booted after following them :-)
<mpt> âYou have an approximate of 13 additional unread messagesâ à² _à² 
<john-mcaleely> + or - 0
<Saviq> dobey, login.u.c
<dobey> Saviq: canonical-identity-provider i think is the project you want to file a bug against then
<Saviq> dobey, thanks!
<Saviq> ah, bug there already
<Saviq> bug #1257303
<ubot5> bug 1257303 in Canonical SSO provider "After signing in incorrectly, signing in correctly goes to the wrong place" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1257303
<nik90> robin-hero: Hey, the weather-reboot will replace the default weather app when it is ready. We are following the blueprint at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-weather-app/+spec/weather-reboot
<brunch875> I've registered to my very first mailing list, which honorably is ubuntu phone! Wooo!
<brunch875> Now the big question is whether to hit reply-list or reply-all when replying
<brunch875> looks like there are tons of discrepancies over the internet
<jgdx> mpt, hi, how are you?
<mpt> busy
<dadexix86> hi! is it normal that the camera stops recording videos when the screen goes blank?
<dobey> brunch875: reply all is almost always what you should always use, for any e-mail, regardless of whether it's on a list or not :)
<brunch875> thanks man, that snapped me out of confusion
<ogra_> dobey, uh
<ogra_> if its a list, use reply-to list :)
 * brunch875 hurt himself in confusion
<dobey> ogra_: that doesn't work if the person you're replying to isn't subscribed, and their mail was moderated through :)
<jgdx> dadexix86, have you looked at https://bugs.launchpad.net/camera-app
<dobey> ogra_: reply all is always the safest bet.
<mpnegro> hi
<ogra_> dobey, if i recieve a mail from a list i expect the people participating in the discussion to be on the list
<mpnegro> anyone experience problems with imap?
<brunch875> imap?
<ogra_> reply a-.- totally messes up the ML headers (and many peoples filters)
<dobey> ogra_: i have learned to have no expectations about anything any more :)
<ogra_> *reply-all
<jgdx> dadexix86, maybe file a bug if you can't find anything and a developer will look at it.
<dadexix86> jgdx, yes and there is nothing about it, so I wanted to know if this would be considered a bug or a feature :)
<brunch875> mpnegro: do you have trouble with your emails?
<mpnegro> with the mail client of ubuntu phone
<mpnegro> yes
<brunch875> dekko?
<dobey> mpnegro: #dekko might be a better channel to ask about dekko, really :)
<ogra_> oh, it has its own channel now ?
<ogra_> nice
<dobey> i think so, yes
<brunch875> I'm using dekko with imap, no issues
<dobey> i recall popey or someone mentioning it before anyway
<popey> ya
<davmor3> rvr ping
<rvr> davmor3: pong
<davmor3> rvr thanks 3g seems to be working then
<AskUbuntu> Ubuntu Phone : Change device name | http://askubuntu.com/q/608754
<rvr> davmor3: You're welcome
<kenvandine> jgdx, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/ubuntu-system-settings/lp1438633/view/head:/plugins/about/PageComponent.qml
<kenvandine> jgdx, can you grab that file and test it on your device?
<kenvandine> i tried to just get more debugging output for the blank updates page, but now i can't reproduce it
<AskUbuntu> Ubuntu Phone--is there one that works in the Americas? | http://askubuntu.com/q/608759
<Mirv> renatu: hey! what about testing the silo 004? there's only 2 days left before vivid final freeze
<Mirv> after that it'd be vivid+1 plus backport to vivid-rtm if wanted
<renatu> Mirv, I tested and is working nice
<jgdx> kenvandine, sher. That's vivid, right?
<kenvandine> yeah
<Mirv> renatu: oh, ok. so which device and image? so that I can mark the silo as tested.
<kenvandine> maybe not getting the pageComponent inline fixed it... not sure why
<kenvandine> i assigned the pageComponent to load to a variable
<kenvandine> jgdx, tested your steps several times... worked
<kenvandine> weird
<renatu> Mirv, Ubuntu 15.04(r178) krillin
<Mirv> renatu: thanks! I'll gather my AP results still and then I'll publish the silo.
<renatu> Mirv, thanks
<Fredl_> anyone wo knows how tom importiert contacts from my old Androide phone tom my ubuntu phone without using google account?
<AskUbuntu> What's my current best purchase option for a new Ubuntu Touch install - Nexus 10 or 7? | http://askubuntu.com/q/608763
<ogra_> Frethere is a way to import vcf files via commandline if you can make it export your contacts to vcf
<jgdx> kenvandine, silo 6 introduces new strings. What are the consequences of that now?
<jgdx> can it land at all?
<kenvandine> oh right... is that from the cellular design updates?
<jgdx> kenvandine, yeah
<kenvandine> seb128, ^^
<kenvandine> seb128, you're the most likely candidate to yell at us :)
<seb128> kenvandine, jgdx, grrrr
<seb128> :-)
 * kenvandine hugs seb128
<seb128> but fine with me, we are just not going to get translations in vivid
<seb128> but I guess we need to branch vivid to some 15.04-rtm and roll there?
<kenvandine> dunno if we're ready for that
<seb128> kenvandine, are we fine freezing things with ui changes and no translations in vivid?
<seb128> it means that if we roll rtm to vivid it's going to be uncorrectly translated
<kenvandine> i really don't know
<seb128> pmcgowan, ^
<kenvandine> pmcgowan, this change is bringing the cellular panel closer to the design
<pmcgowan> seb128, seems we will need W to open up so new translations happen?
<pmcgowan> or can we do them directly on rtm
<kenvandine> i guess we could branch for 15.04-rtm and translate there
<seb128> pmcgowan, I guess we can have updates through SRUs
<kenvandine> we have to do it at some point
<pmcgowan> we hope to rebase rtm this week
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> so if we land this, we could get it translated in rtm
<pmcgowan> maybe wait to land it after we rebase
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> safest
<kenvandine> until W opens
<kenvandine> jgdx, ^^ so i guess drop it from the silo
<jgdx> kenvandine, imma ok with it
<aquarius> zyga, ping about ucs
<zyga> aquarius: hey
<zyga> aquarius: :)
<zyga> aquarius: I didn't recognize your nic
<zyga> aquarius: so about ucs
<zyga> aquarius: 1) let's get it to work 2) let's get it right 3) let's get it public
<zyga> aquarius: the goal for me is to be able to let everyone use ucs to just put a python component inside their app
<zyga> aquarius: as stated on G+, the trick is to extract .so file from the pyotherside deb from the archive
<zyga> aquarius: (you can to this for each architecture to get fat packages later)
<zyga> aquarius: and .qmldir or whatever that file is calle
<zyga> aquarius: and that gives you all of pyotherside
<zyga> aquarius: pyotherside links to qt5 and to libpython so you also need libpython3.4 .so from the second deb
<zyga> aquarius: a typical click package with main.qml, lib/$arch/*.so works okay on all three platforms (x86 emulator, amd64 and real arm phones)
<zyga> aquarius: the new debs I made are even better as they remove the requirement to use stdlib from the phone, it's now shipped inside pyotherside
<zyga> aquarius: the actual component needs to be refreshed each time python has a security fix
<zyga> aquarius: or each time pyotherside has a fix/release (so far that's not that frequent)
<zyga> aquarius: the way ucs gets this is one topic
<zyga> aquarius: but the way developers get it via ucs should be totally standard
<zyga> aquarius: so that they can just use the common workflow
<zyga> aquarius: for ucs I think I can upload a new version each time there is a release of either of the two dependencies (at first)
<zyga> aquarius: and we can automate the process later if it's needed
<zyga> aquarius: for now I'd like to get to a point that it can be used in basic way
<zyga> aquarius: will ucs somehow merge with the SDK?
<aquarius> zyga, sorry, otp, with you shortly
<ogra_> zyga, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usensord/+bug/1442166 probably something you want to subscribe to (the title is slightly worng)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1442166 in Canonical System Image "Calendar alarms rings forever if Low Battery dialog visible" [High,Confirmed]
<zyga> ogra_: thanks, I guess that affects all the apps using vibration
<ogra_> zyga, yeap
<ogra_> i'm hitting it all the time recently ... the fix should be easy
<zyga> ogra_: what is the cause? do you know?
<ogra_> zyga, the vibrator doesnt use a wakelock ... so the phone goes back to sleep after triggering the event
<ogra_> which means it never knows about the end of the event because it is already asleep
<zyga> :D
<zyga> cool bug
<zyga> interesting impact of suspend on programs
<ogra_> well, i learned that it doesnt save you from draining your battery :)
<aquarius> zyga, what you're describing is exactly how ucs (well, my proposed version of ucs, with the community components included) is supposed to work. It *should* work like that already. You'll see from the docs (specifically http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sil/component-store/community-components/view/head:/docs/contribute-community.rst) that what you do is assemble a Launchpad branch with the binary .so files and a metad
<aquarius> ata file in, and then use "ucs submit" to tell the server about that component
<jgdx> awe_, abeato, is lte apns ready to be implemented in uss?
<abeato> jgdx, it has not landed yet, waiting for QA sign-pff
<aquarius> zyga, but this stuff hasn't been *used* much yet, so there may be flaws in how it works
<abeato> *sign-off
<jgdx> abeato, ah, so waiting for landing
<zyga> aquarius: when I created a branch of c-s that had pyotherside it didn't seem to work, I tried bin/ lib/ etc
<abeato> jgdx, yes
<zyga> aquarius: I think the missing part is the thing done on the device, which adds lib/$arch to search path
<awe_> abeato, jgdx, hoping it'll get approved today...
<zyga> aquarius: I'm busy on plainbox code now but I can look at that later
<zyga> aquarius: a trivial example with a hello world QML plugin is much appreciated :)
<zyga> (binary plugin)
<jgdx> awe_, abeato, thanks you. I'm crossing fingers
<jgdx> thanks you haha
<abeato> :D
 * ferridom is looking around.. (", ) ( ,") ('_')
<zyga> aquarius: one more thing I don't understand is frameworks, should the binary bits be provided for each framework separately (it seems so)
<aquarius> zyga, if you get my branch, and do "./script/ucs search", you'll see that there is a "sil/CommandExec" community component. That comphttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sil/+junk/CommandExec/filesonent exists in launchpad as
<zyga> aquarius: this might be a hole in current ucs design
<aquarius> zyga, if you get my branch, and do "./script/ucs search", you'll see that there is a "sil/CommandExec" community component. That component exists in launchpad as http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sil/+junk/CommandExec/files
<aquarius> (sorry, cut and paste error :))
<aquarius> that branch contains all the build files and source etc, but it doesn't have to -- the only bits ucs cares about are /qmllib and /ubuntu_component_store.json
<aquarius> that's an example of a (trivial) binary component
<zyga> aquarius: ah, qmllib, I couldn't find that in any documentation I read (I followed the guide on readthedocs)
<aquarius> zyga, I'm not sure what to do about frameworks.
<zyga> aquarius: I'll check it out and try to submit pyotherside
<zyga> aquarius: I'll ping you with a branch for instructions
<aquarius> zyga, ah. The readthedocs stuff is for current trunk. My stuff, which has all the community component work in it, isn't in trunk. You want http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sil/component-store/community-components and specifically http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sil/component-store/community-components/view/head:/docs/contribute-community.rst for documentation on how to add compiled community components.
<zyga> aquarius: thanks, I'll follow that then
<aquarius> The existing ucs does not do binary components at all, and I don't think nik90 plans for it to do so -- existing ucs is about well-tested well-documented QML-only components which are owned by the UCS team.
<zyga> aquarius: will your stuff merge with trunk anytime soon?
<aquarius> My community store is much more like, say, pypi or npm; anyone can submit anything, and whether it's well-tested and good enough is up to the developer who's using it to assess for themselves.
<zyga> I see
<zyga> will there be one ucs?
<zyga> one tool?
<aquarius> I want there to be, certainly!
<zyga> or two?
<nik90> aquarius, zyga: I am fine with ucs supporting binary components. Which is also why I am totally with aquarius's proposal of core, community components..I am sorry, I just haven't had the time to merge it to trunk
<zyga> any idea on timelines for that? I can dogfood pyotherside for checkbox-touch
<zyga> nik90: hey! :)
<nik90> zyga: hi :)
<zyga> that sounds great
<zyga> (do think about frameworks though)
<nik90> aquarius, zyga: The MP requires debian packaging to be done and tested as well since otherwise it would break the existing developer's workflow
<zyga> it seems like a big hole waiting to bite us
<aquarius> this community stuff is a really big change to how ucs works (there are other docs in my branch which explain all that), and it really needs someone who understands all this compilation stuff to work with it and find all the problems in it, so I can see why nik90's been reluctant :)
<zyga> nik90: debian packaging for what?
<zyga> nik90: for each component?
<zyga> nik90: or for the new ucs workflow with community bits
<nik90> zyga: I created a ucs package which developers can install it on their system and install components by "ucs install component-name"
<nik90> zyga: so that has been rewritten in python by aquarius
<zyga> nik90: yeah, I got the ppa installed
<zyga> (I'm not sure which one I got though)
<zyga> nik90: what is install expected to do though? get the branch from launchpad or something more?
<nik90> zyga: well the current binary just gets the component code from launchpad and installs it in the developer's project directory
 * aquarius nods. The existing trunk ucs (which is what is packaged by nik90) has a "ucs" command line tool which is a shell script. I rewrote the ucs utility in Python because it's quite a lot more complicated now -- curated components (those that are in current ucs trunk) are checked out of launchpad directly; community components has the ucs util talk to the server and the server says "the stuff you want is in this 
<aquarius> all the rst files in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sil/component-store/community-components/files/63/docs help to explain this stuff
<nik90> zyga: the one proposed by aquarius is more feature filled as in it supports a curated and community store which is awesome
<zyga> ah, ok
<zyga> so
<zyga> for me, I need to update the layout of my component
<aquarius> Sorry, I know this is confusing :)
<zyga> qmldir vs bin/lib
<zyga> and update the script that builds it so that it's easier each time
<nik90> zyga: the benefit of a community store is that you can host your component in your own server (github) etc and then just provide the link to ucs. so no more reviews needed to get it into the store :)
<zyga> and push that somewhere
<zyga> and poke you guys for review :)
<zyga> (review as to what I did wrong)
<zyga> the bits are straight from Debian
<aquarius> zyga, well, sort of. As it happens you have to host community components on launchpad, but yeah, what nik90 is saying is right :)
<zyga> I'm fine with launchpad (git support, whee)
<nik90> aquarius: Frankly if you think your branch is ready and you are confident with it, let's go ahead and merge it. I think this would take ucs to the next level.
<zyga> though it's really irrelevant for this component
<zyga> \o/
<zyga> do it, I'll dog-food this in the evening
<zyga> nik90: just rebuild the ppa package once it lands
<nik90> zyga: yes
<aquarius> zyga, yeah -- you'll just have a script which downloads the deb files, unpacks things from them into a folder, and then bzr commits the folder to launchpad and then ucs submits the launchpad branch
<nik90> aquarius: Do you want to go through your branch one last time before I merge it to trunk?
<aquarius> nik90, I am unsure about two things with my branch -- does it break any of your existing uses? And is the download-a-binary-and-put-it-on-the-path ucs install stuff actually doing the right thing?
<aquarius> nik90, the first one I don't know about because I haven't used the curated store enough to know if I've broken it
<zyga> aquarius: that's exactly what I have, just using wrong paths now :)
<aquarius> nik90, and the second one I don't know about because I don't know enough about all the compilation stuff, which is why I'm really glad that zyga wants to use it because he *does* know and can help us fix it if it's broken :)
<nik90> aquarius: I am pretty sure it doesn't support binaries components since they require differnent paths
<nik90> zyga: so the binary component that you are providing, will it be precompiled for the different platforms like armhf, i386 etc? or is it the raw code that needs to be compiled on developer's machines?
<aquarius> nik90, mine supports binary components, certainly, and yours doesn't, so that's fine -- I'm not breaking anything with the community component stuff
<nik90> aquarius: oh ok, that's awesome
<zyga> nik90: precompiled, I get the debs from the archive
<aquarius> nik90, but does my ucs script correctly install your existing components?
<zyga> nik90: for each architecture
<aquarius> nik90, I think it does, but I don't know enough to be sure
<zyga> nik90: using apt to know the latest versions each time (it's pretty shmick :)
<nik90> aquarius: When I tested your branch, the curated components did work as expected
<nik90> that I am sure of
<aquarius> nik90, cool. I'd suggest waiting for now until zyga tries using ucs for a binary component, because the likeliness that I've done something stupid somewhere is quite high :)
<aquarius> nik90, but if it works for pyotherside (or it doesn't and we can fix the bits that don't work) then I'd certainly like to see it merged to trunk and then installable from the ppa!
<nik90> aquarius: if it does break after all this revamp, we can work on it slowly to fix it. Until then developers can grab the components directly from launchpad
<nik90> ack.
<zyga> ok
<zyga> pyotherside has gotten some fantastic features lately
<zyga> opengl
<aquarius> ya. I would really like to use pyotherside
<aquarius> I just don't want to have to have a qmake or cmake project in order to do it
<nik90> zyga: curious, but how big are the apps created with pyotherside since the app needs to ship the binaries and python libraries with it?
<aquarius> having a pure QML project in which I can do "ucs install pyotherside" and then use python stuff is totally excellent when possible; this is precisely absolutely why I designed the ucs in the first place :)
<zyga> nik90: pyotherside with stdlib is ... 3M on amd64
<nik90> aquarius: the problem is that qmlproject thinks it is platform independent when in reality the binary plugin you shipped is not..that's why cmake and qmake are preferred to build the binaries for respective platform while installing it.
<zyga> nik90: python is 4.2M
<zyga> nik90: so around 7M per app
<aquarius> nik90, I get that that's a problem, but it is a wrong problem. The rules for binary ucs components are: you have to provide a compiled version for *each* architecture, and a fat click package will be built.
<aquarius> so you can use a pure qml project quite happily.
<nik90> zyga: hmm that's still within reasonable limits
<zyga> nik90: without stdlib it's 200K for pyotherside
<zyga> nik90: without libpython that's just 200K (the cost of not having it in the platform)
<aquarius> someone who says "waaah waaah disk space waaaah" is welcome to not use ucs and assemble their project themselves by hand; that's the price of being whiny about disc space :)
<zyga> iff the platform could contain python + stdlib as a given that's comparable to an image
<nik90> aquarius: agreed, well the fat package story in the sdk is not ready afaik..but yeah we will get back to this when that's ready :)
<zyga> I strongly hope that future frameworks will recognize this and add python
<zyga> especially since it's not going away anytime soon
<aquarius> nik90, yeah, but that's because the sdk people need to hurry up, not because it's a bad idea ;-)
<aquarius> don't tell Zoltan I said that. :)
<nik90> zyga: may be when more and more apps start shipping python + pyotherside, it would make a compiling case for ogra_ to agree to ship it in the image
<bzoltan> aquarius:  what, when, who? Me? No way...
<zyga> nik90: we ship it in the image
 * aquarius grins at bzoltan
 * bzoltan just does not get it
<zyga> nik90: just 'not part of framework' yada yada
<nik90> zyga: ah ok
<ogra_> nik90, lol, i will *never* agree to ship python ...:)
<zyga> nik90: though we do ship python3 the interpreter
<zyga> nik90: not python3 the library
<zyga> nik90: I plan on having better packages later, with static python linked into pyotherside
<zyga> nik90: and with subset of the standard library, tailored to each app
<ogra_> python is great for prototyping ... but not for serious stuff on a constrained system
<aquarius> I think that pyotherside itself and pyotherside-stdlib ought to be two separate components, but I'm not bullish about that
<zyga> ogra_: tell that to blackberry that ship their most succesful product (the hub)
<zyga> ogra_: it's written in python
<ogra_> zyga, poor them :)
<zyga> ogra_: I think you are just wrong
<zyga> ogra_: javascript and python are equal here
<zyga> ogra_: just python is far more mature as a language
 * ogra_ works with ARM sicne 6 years now ... i havent seen python perform any good on any ARM til today 
<ogra_> i would rather completely get rid of it in the image ... but we sadly have system-image in python that keeps it around
<nik90> ok ok we are diving into a much bigger topic than intended :P
<ogra_> haha
<zyga> ogra_: well, that's your word, for me python is plenty fast since all of the critical stuff is in C anyway
<zyga> ;-)
<ogra_> and guys ... btw ... use VIM, emacs sucks
<ogra_> !
<zyga> ogra_: and if BB can ship their key product on it time and again, it must be doable
<ogra_> zyga, well, snappy will solve all this and enable users to simply install python on their phone
<zyga> ogra_: as a library of sorts that enables true reuse?
<zyga> ogra_: that's interesting, I didn't know that
<ogra_> as a framework
<zyga> ogra_: framework?
<zyga> ah
<zyga> right
<zyga> (I was asking if it will be a framework)
<zyga> but you beat me to it
<ogra_> (which is a bundle of libraries)
<zyga> yeah yeah
<nik90> aquarius: I will test your branch with the latest trunk again and then do the standard test of installing components from curated and community. I think if that passes, I will get the debian rdy today and ship it. We can test the binary stuff after that since the basic requirement of being able to install qml curated and community components will be satisfied as a start.
<ogra_> the framework story on snappy is still a bit young though
<ogra_> and when we switch the phone to snappy is also not clear yet
<zyga> ogra_: I'll be working on plainbox framework for snappy soon
<ogra_> (but i'm eagerly looking forward to it ... )
<zyga> ogra_: I'll bug you more about that (the glory of having a system testing framework)
<ogra_> :)
<mpt> jgdx, awe_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking#New_design_.28in_progress.29
<awe_> thank mpt!
<aquarius> nik90, cool
<nik90> charles: ping
 * zyga wonders what it would take to make pypy + pyotherside a reality
<jgdx> mpt, cool, thank you
<gQuigs> can we add the phone RTM image to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases,  I'm curious how long we plan on supporting it, or when the next major update will come
<jgdx> seb128, you want to test your silo btw?
<jgdx> kenvandine, ^?
<seb128> jgdx, sure can, is that vivid or rtm?
<ogra_> gQuigs, the phone doesnt actually have releases ... it is a rollin distro
<ogra_> *rolling
<jgdx> seb128, vivid 06
<ogra_> and the phone also doesnt really have "images" ...
<ogra_> it has channels ...
<gQuigs> ogra_: but it still has an EOL date - and it's based on a specific release
<ogra_> nothing of this can be easily translated into the old release model
<ogra_> no, it isnt
<seb128> jgdx, k
<ogra_> it neither has an EOL datew nor is it based on a specific release ... it gets constantly re-based
<ogra_> endusers get monthly updates
<ogra_> the concept is completely different from the old distro model
<seb128> jgdx, hum, vivid device is flat, I'm charging a bit to power it on and then testing
<ogra_> (and will hopefully replace it once)
<gQuigs> ogra_: I was told a while ago, that it would get the next LTS equivalent, and then be EOL
<ogra_> gQuigs, then you were told wrong :)
<mpt> jgdx, awe_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking?action=diff&rev2=258&rev1=256#apn-mobile
<gQuigs> ogra_: it was sabdfl :P  ~ but yea it was a while ago
<ogra_> the RTM channel will constantly get fed with updates from the devel distro in a completely rolling model
<ogra_> it will never go away
<gQuigs> ogra_: if we're going to support the phone for at least 3 years, that a huge selling point
<ogra_> i hope we can even support them longer :)
<jgdx> seb128, okay, do you want me to mark it untested?
<ogra_> but i guess at one point the HW limits will kick in
<gQuigs> ogra_: that's what I'd like to start documenting.. that we are more predictable than android :)
<seb128> jgdx, no, those are only trivial fixes, should be fine
<ogra_> i.e. 512M ram might not be enoughj to run ubuntu on your phone in 2-3 years
<jgdx> seb128, kk
<ogra_> but from an upgrade POV (if you take the HW out of the equation) it should be possible to theoretically support phones for their whole lifetime
<jgdx> mpt, thanks. Reset is still a bit ambiguous to me, does it fit the scope of the spec to discuss what how "apn" should be reset?
<gQuigs> ogra_: but we don't have any written commitment I can add to the release page?
<ogra_> nope
<gQuigs> or I guess a sub-page specific to devices might be needed at some point
<ogra_> well, we have that ports page
<ogra_> !devices
<ubot5> You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<gQuigs> hmm... add a supported for / until column.. to "Working with ubuntu-device-flash"
<jgdx> kenvandine, I can't reproduce the bug at all now.
<studio_> maybe stupid question, but how to get the penguin to the boot-logo on the e4.5?
<nik90> aquarius: hey, when I try installing a community component, I get the error http://paste.ubuntu.com/10817028/
<nik90> aquarius: I am trying to install it inside a standard cmake project
<aquarius> nik90, the way I determine this is:
<aquarius> Pure QML projects are in a folder Foo which has a Foo.qmlproject file in it.
<aquarius>     qMake-based projects are in a folder Foo which has a Foo.pro file in it.
<aquarius>     CMake-based projects are in a folder Foo which has CMakeLists.txt and that
<aquarius>         file contains a project(Foo ...) line in it.
<AskUbuntu> ubuntu touch web app url, sub domain | http://askubuntu.com/q/608826
<aquarius> This is exactly the sort of thing where I don't know if what I've done is *correct* :)
<aquarius> So, it thinks you're not in a project. This could be because the above rules are incorrect, or because the above rules are fine and they're implemented wrong, or something else...
<nik90> aquarius: here's is the project tree https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~michael-sheldon/podbird/trunk/files
<nik90> aquarius: I tried installing it while being inside the root folder, app and also UI
<aquarius> ok trying it out
<aquarius> works fine for me!
<nik90> which folder did you try it in?
<aquarius> root
<aquarius> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10817071/
 * aquarius looks puzzled.
<aquarius> I can't think why it would work for me and not you!
<nik90> hmm let me try something
<nik90> aquarius: hmm now it works when I replicated the way you ran the command
<nik90> aquarius: previously I copied your script to /usr/bin
<nik90> and then ran ucs install sil/GenericPodcastApp inside the root podbird folder
<nik90> that hits the errpr
<nik90> error*
 * aquarius does the puzzled look
<aquarius> why in blazes would that make a difference? I hate computers.
<nik90> May be you should try coping it to your /usr/bin and see if it still works for you .. that's where the ppa package installs it
<aquarius> works fine with it in ~/bin, which is on my path
<studio_> damn, i installed ut to "ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed" and i am not able to add a hidden wireless network.?
<nik90> aquarius: ok..I will continue testing and then see if I hit this after installing the deb package
<aquarius> works fine with ucs in /usr/bin too
<aquarius> am most puzzled
<studio_> i can't insert sid nor key?
<nik90> aquarius: oh then I have no idea :P .. no worries
<nik90> studio_: why don't you just copy the network config from your computer to your phone? (for now)
<aquarius> studio_: it doesn't seem to be possible to connect to a hidden network in a convenient way. If you're comfortable with the terminal, then http://askubuntu.com/questions/262155/how-do-i-connect-to-wireless-network-with-hidden-ssid-on-ubuntu-touch explains how you can set it up in a fairly technical way.
<studio_> nik90, i flashed a brand new "ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed" on my phone. 5 days ago i had no problems with that.
<nik90> studio_: ah ok
<studio_> i am back from Android to UT right now ...
<studio_> cool, now i have a boot-loop! seems to be now on "ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed" for bq ...
<studio_> hmm ... that is not so cool as i thought ...
<studio_> after "cold reset" i was able to start the phone "normal" ...
<studio_> 15.04 r183 is the image i use in the moment ...
<nik90> aquarius: we might have to get someone to review the cmake rules since automatic configuration of the cmake files isnt working
<nik90> aquarius: On creating the podbird click package, the ubuntu_component_store folder isn't included..which raises the issue that every project's folder structure and thereby their cmake files will be different
<aquarius> nik90, I am not very surprised. I have only the most rudimentary understanding of cmake -- I did what I could, but I'm not a bit surprised that it isn't working...
<nik90> aquarius: may be we should just resort to just adding a folder with the components and let the app dev figure that part out
<popey> studio_: don't think that image has had much testing
<nik90> considering they chose to use cmake in the first place
<aquarius> nik90, I want the component store to exist precisely so that people do not have to know about cmake and qmake
<nik90> aquarius: I agree, but why would someone go with a cmake project if they are not comfortable with it?
<aquarius> nik90, I'd be OK with the component store only working automatically in pure qml projects, certainly. But all the SDK people who think that you're not a proper programmer unless you're writing C++ and cmake tend not to like that sort of thing :)
<nik90> aquarius: well then those SDK people should then help add that support into UCS
<aquarius> nik90, I concur, and I did ask for help, I just didn't get any :)
<nik90> aquarius: yeah I remember..I wasn't blaming you ;)
 * bzoltan wishes that the sdk people would mean more than this 2 heads
<nik90> bzoltan: do you highlight "sdk" or something
<studio_> popey, after a reboot i was able to connect to my hidden network. now i'll try my kernel-modules ...
<bzoltan> nik90: you  figured right
<nik90> aquarius: The problem is that we both are not experience with cmake enough to add these rules to ucs..and adding a CMakeLists.txt file which doesn't work would just lead to a bad experience imo.
<bzoltan> aquarius:  The integration of the UCS to the QtC is on the roadmap. It would be a cool feature ... but I need doing hands too, not only the idea :)
<aquarius> bzoltan, yep; that's why we've built a prototype :)
<bzoltan> nik90:  I would not invest too much in cmake ... qmake is the way to go, even qmlprojects are in shaky base
<nik90> bzoltan: I knw you are short staffed, but we can only go so far with our experience
<aquarius> as nik90 says, neither of us know enough about cmake or qmake to actually have it integrate properly with cmake or qmake projects
<aquarius> the reason I want ucs to exist is precisely *because* one should not have to know cmake to write apps :)
<kenvandine> jgdx, at all meaning with my fix or even without it?
<bzoltan> aquarius:  cmake is evil, qmake rocks ... adding stuff to a qmake project from the QtC is doable, doing it with cmake is mission impossible
 * mcphail wishes Qt had gone with Automake. He can understand that one
<kenvandine> jgdx, i was thinking more about qml test vs autopilot to test pushing the updates page from the about page
<kenvandine> that has to be an autopilot test, because we specifically need to test that UI which gets the update page and pushes it on the PageStack
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, hey :-) Did you enjoy your holidays? :-)
<nik90> aquarius: quick question, do you know the dependencies for the new ucs? I need to include them in the debian control file.
<nik90> aquarius: I have included python-bzrlib as one dependency which is used a lot. But I notice that imports like Flask.
<nik90> aquarius: Do we need to include those as well?
<studio_> hmm, "sudo insmod /lib/modules/cifs.ko" made no error on the bq e4.5, so it is working?
<studio_> come on guys, i am not the kernel guy, but please tell me, i am on the correct way?
<studio_> nobody here?
<jgdx> kenvandine, not at all, even without the fix
<jgdx> arrg
<popey> studio_: people are here, as you can see, but people may not have the skills to answer your question or may be afk
<popey> studio_: or maybe you're not providing enough information for people to be able to answer.
<popey> studio_: also, patience.
<studio_> mount - t cifs ... is not working. do i need to add "CONFIG_CIFS_XATTR=y" and "CONFIG_CIFS_POSIX=y" to the kernel?
<kenvandine> jgdx, grrr
<kenvandine> jgdx,  i did reproduce it again without my fix
<kenvandine> hate this bug
<jgdx> kenvandine, I can flash an older image. I just flashed today, could be relevant
<kenvandine> jgdx, ok
<aquarius> nik90, hey sorry was eating dinner.
<aquarius> nik90, flask is used by the server; the server doesn't go into the deb
<aquarius> nik90, script/ucs is, I believe, all that I changed which gets packaged. The server folder is separate (it runs the server that ucs submit submits to).
<nik90> aquarius: ok in that case the only new change that was required was adding python-bzrlib dependency
<nik90> everything else stays the same
<aquarius> nik90, cool. I did try to not do anything massively complex :)
<nik90> aquarius: I have the debian fix branch ready to merge into your MP
<nik90> aquarius: ;)
<aquarius> nik90, I see the review notes. I'll try to grab some time to work on that
<nik90> aquarius: cool
<nik90> aquarius: just ping me when you are done, I don't seem to get email notifications on MP changes
<oSoMoN> rpadovani, hey o/
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, o/
<aquarius> nik90, aha, I have replicated your "not in an sdk project" issue. Will now fix :)
<gingermouse> Hi all! Does anyone know which PPA contains a package with the Xmir command in it?
<AskUbuntu> Ubuntu touch HTML5 performance | http://askubuntu.com/q/608872
<aquarius> nik90, https://code.launchpad.net/~sil/component-store/community-components/+merge/245510
<aquarius> nik90, note that importing installed components is different now with new ucs
<AskUbuntu> How to make a USB Ethernet adapter work with Ubuntu Phone? | http://askubuntu.com/q/608879
<nik90> aquarius: will test it out now
 * ogra_ wonders if he didnt hear aquarius recently say that newly published apps should show up immediately in the webstore
<nik90> aquarius: I see in the docs that it says import ubuntu_component_store.Curated.EmptyState 1.0
<nik90> aquarius: anyway we can make that UCS.Curated.EmptyState 1.0 ?
<nik90> aquarius: also how does the versioning work here?
<aquarius> ogra_, no; Brian Douglass's cron job still only runs infrequently. However, if you've just published an app then there's a link in the FAQ on the store to a thing where you can name your app and it'll fetch it and add it to the store immediately.
<ogra_> aquarius, ah, well, i can wait ... :
<ogra_> :)
<cwayne_> mariogrip, heya, nice job on the wifi fix :)
<aquarius> ogra_, just stick the name of the app into that form and it'll appear immediately
<aquarius> nik90, we could make it be UCS, but then the top-level folder will have to be named UCS rather than ubuntu_component_store, and that name seems a little bit generic to me...
<mariogrip>  cwayne_ Thanks!
<ogra_> ah, shweet ! https://uappexplorer.com/app/google-plus.ogra
<ogra_> aquarius, thanks :)
<cwayne_> mariogrip, what was the fix?
<nik90> aquarius: ah ok .. that makes sense
<nik90> aquarius: then let's leave it like that
<mariogrip> cwayne_: I had to revert to conn_init
<aquarius> nik90, version number of a component is defined in ubuntu_component_store.json. Updating that, or not, is up to the component author.
<nik90> aquarius: and looks like the "not in the sdk project" issue seems fixed ;)
<mariogrip> cwayne_: it was using qcom cne
<aquarius> nik90, it is fixed, 'cos I fixed it :) Forgot to mention that in the commit message...
<nik90> aquarius: that's great. So if I had sil.GenericPodcastApp.1.0 installed and if I run "ucs update", would it create sil.GenericPodcastApp.1.1 if the component author updated it?
<mariogrip> ogra_: is apparmor needed to use the store?
<aquarius> nik90, no. ucs update isn't implemented yet, precisely because I don't know what's best to do in that situation. What do you think should happen?
<ogra_> mariogrip, to run click apps ...
<nik90> aquarius: sry I meant "ucs update sil/GeneralPocastApp" since I see that in your docs
<ogra_> the store only needs a U1 accont
<ogra_> might be that click falls over when installing the app if apparmor isnt in the kernel, not sure
<aquarius> nik90, note that ucs install someone/Something will just blithely overwrite any existing version of the component in the project, so that's the same as ucs update :)
<cwayne_> mariogrip, ah, so it wasn't anything with the fstab and the firmware dir not being mounted?
<nik90> aquarius: Ah ok..here's what I have noticed people do with UCS.
<mariogrip> cwayne_: it was that too
<cwayne_> mariogrip, is that what got the sound workin'?
<mariogrip> ogra_: i cannot add an account for some reason
<nik90> aquarius: they install a component like the WelcomeWizard etc, modify it and leave it downstream since the changes are only applicable to them or for whatever reason.
<mariogrip> cwayne_: i got sound working with removing some unsupported file formats
<nik90> aquarius: in that case, "ucs update" should preferably not override their changes since they wouldnt like it.
<aquarius> nik90, totally, yep. That's why I'm frightened of "ucs update", and it will throw NotImplementedError if you try to use it :)
<mariogrip> ogra_: and the store is giving apparmor errors, so that's why i was thinking apparmor was needed
<cwayne_> mariogrip, ah, ok.. any idea what to do re: modem?  i wonder if it needs stuff in ofono
<nik90> aquarius: I think that's fine for now..I will try to get a poll or something running in our g+ community to see how best to approach such a use case.
<ogra_> mariogrip, weird, but it probably does then ... so i guess apparmor is the next thing on your TODO thn :)
<ogra_> *then
<mariogrip> cwayne_: i think i need to revert back to ril from cne there also (i think, i need to look into that more)
<nik90> aquarius: Can you merge my fix-debian-packaging branch and then we merge your MP to trunk?
<mariogrip> ogra_ yeah, i guess so :)
<nik90> aquarius: I will then push out the update to the PPA and then test the whole system out before making an announcement.
<aquarius> yep
<nik90> awesome
<aquarius> merged
<aquarius> I have assumed it was OK without review because I don't understand deban packaging ;)
<nik90> aquarius: well the debian change is tiny, so that's fine
<ogra_> mariogrip, a friend of mine pinged me on G+ for build instructions, do yu have them anywhere ?
 * ogra_ remembers there was a forum post or some such
<mariogrip> ogra_ https://github.com/ubuntu-touch-oneplus-one/ubuntu-touch-for-oneplus-one
<ogra_> thanks !
<nik90> aquarius: also do note that I cannot make head/tail of some parts of your code due to me being a noob in python flask and those kind of stuff. But I trust your judgement on that :P
<aquarius> nik90, :)
<nik90> aquarius: and there goes my super clean bash script :P
<aquarius> nik90, yeah, I know. Sorry. I did originally think of extending it, but it would have been a nightmare...
<nik90> aquarius: no worries...personalyl excited about the community store and the ease of adding stuff to it.
<TenLeftFingers> Got my BQ phone today :) very impressed with the quality of the II A
<TenLeftFingers> And as you can tell I'm using it to write this.
<TenLeftFingers> Can anyone tell me if they are also habing problems syncing their google contacts?
<TenLeftFingers> I'm only getting seven of my google comtacts synced to the phone out of over a hundred
<popey> TenLeftFingers: not seen that
<nik90> aquarius: we are live! Docs Updated, PPA has new package for trusty..In a few minutes it should also be published to utopic and vivid series as well.
<aquarius> nik90, coolio :-)
<brunch875> what the what what? Are you hitting us with the update?
<aquarius> brunch875, this isn't an update to Ubuntu itself :)
<aquarius> brunch875, it's a project that nik90 and I are working on to help app developers for Ubuntu.
<aquarius> nik90, I'd like to see zyga successfully publish pyotherside to the community store before making a big noise about this update
<brunch875> it sounds good either way!
<aquarius> brunch875, we hope so, certainly :)
<brunch875> what's the candy?
<nik90> aquarius: ack. I am going to publish a component to the community store now :P
<nik90> brunch875: We created a Component Store where app developers can get commonly used components to use in their apps instead of having to create it from scratch.
<brunch875> oi that sounds great!
<nik90> brunch875: we recently pushed out an update to make it much easier app devs to submit their own components to the store easily.
<nik90> brunch875: we will make an announcement once we get some initial testing out of the way. You will find out more then :)
<AskUbuntu> Hide notification bar on Ubuntu phone (QML) | http://askubuntu.com/q/608923
<nik90> aquarius: Does it make sense to recommend developers to first push their components to the community store where it stays for a while before making moving it to the curated store?
<aquarius> not sure
<aquarius> I'm inclined to say that the curated store provides a different sort of experience to the community store
<aquarius> the curated store is for really well-written things -- essentially, things that the developer feels really ought to be part of the SDK because they're excellent
<aquarius> the community store doesn't really have that vibe about it -- it's a much more free-for-all sort of thing. I'd expect there to be multiple different components which do the same thing in the community store, for example, and I'd expect that not to happen in the curated store
<aquarius> so I don't think that the community store is really an audition for being curated.
<aquarius> On the other hand, it may well be useful for a component to get some use and testing before the developer knows whether it's really ready for being curated.
<nik90> ok
<aquarius> that is -- if someone shows up with a really good component and wants to propose it be curated, you'd be daft to say "no no things ought to go into the community store first to Prove Their Worth"
<aquarius> equally, if someone shows up with a proposal for the curated store and you don't think it's ready, you might suggest that they publish it to the community store first
<nik90> yeah I need to put that wording carefully
<aquarius> yeah. You don't want people to see either store as being a "rejection" or a "goal", I think; it's about where a component best fits, not about how worthy it is
<aquarius> otherwise you'll have a bunch of people annoyed that their component isn't "good enough" to be curated and demanding a "promotion"
<aquarius> which will just make your life stressful :)
<nik90> yeah
<nik90> funny enough that's what I had in mind when I asked that question :P
<nik90> aquarius: how does one remove a component from the community store?
<aquarius> nik90, at the moment, by pinging me
<aquarius> the issue there is that submission does not require authentication
<aquarius> (deliberately)
<aquarius> and I don't want you to be able to remove my components
<nik90> aquarius: ok..because I saw this big "DO_NOT_EDIT_THIS_FILE_BY_HAND" :P and was worried if the server had provision to remove components
<aquarius> I'm not sure how to solve that. I *think* the best way is to require that you make the destination branch invalid as a component somehow (obvious way: remove ubuntu_component_store.json) and then "ucs remove sil/Component" will look at the existing branch it knows about, see it's no longer a branch, and remove it from the list
<nik90> aquarius: I will mention that quickly in the docs for now as a temporary info msg.
<aquarius> the reason you mustn't edit that file by hand is that the UCS server maintains its own copy of it, and if you edit the one in Launchpad, the server's copy gets out of sync and then it all goes wrong ;)
<nik90> aquarius: is it possible to check the existence of a lp branch?
<nik90> if app dev deletes his lp branch and then submits that as an *update*, it would be removed from the list
<aquarius> it is -- when you submit a component to the community store, the server fetches your branch and pokes around in it to confirm that it's a valid-looking component (it has an ubuntu_component_store.json, that file contains required metadata, etc)
<aquarius> ya, I think that that's the best way, I just haven't implemented it yet :)
<nik90> aquarius: yeah ofc this is v0.2...it is to be expected
#ubuntu-touch 2015-04-14
<bumbum> hello,
<g4vr0che> Hi
<bumbum> Is this project still going on?
<g4vr0che> I think so. I have it installed on my phone
<bumbum> oh yeah? awsome,
<bumbum> I just got old galaxy s3,
<bumbum> & try to use that as new ubuntu device,
<g4vr0che> Status page is here. I have a Nexus personally: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/i9300
<bumbum> thx for letting me know the project is still going ^^
<g4vr0che> ^_^
<bumbum> thanks for the link!!!
<Johan> hi every one
<Johan> i have old device samsung tab 8.9
<Johan> is it possible to run with ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/Ubuntu-Touch-for-OnePlus-One-Port-Gets-WiFi-Support-478287.shtml
<lotuspsychje> nice work by mariogrip :p
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Equal Pay Day! :-D
<AskUbuntu> why does ubuntu 15 always boot to phone ui? | http://askubuntu.com/q/609079
<seb128> hum
<seb128> I upgraded my vivid tablet, and now the calculator is listed with no icon and not starting when clicking on it
<seb128> is there a known issue with the transition to the rebooted version?
<seb128> popey, ^ do you know?
<mcphail> seb128: I previously lost icons after an upgrade, but the app still started
<seb128> aa-exec: ERROR: profile 'com.ubuntu.calculator_calculator_1.3.339' does not exist
<seb128> in the log
<mcphail> Bug 1437355 (my bug) is now closed as "fixed" so maybe this is something different
<ubot5> bug 1437355 in ubuntu-app-launch (Ubuntu) "Icons lost from various apps after upgrade" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437355
<seb128> mcphail, thanks, unsure if that's the same issue or not, but likely not since mine fails to start
<seb128> jgdxx, tested silo 6, looks fine to me
<mcphail> seb128: may have the same cause, though. Stale links after updates etc
<seb128> right
<faenil> how do you get the path of your click package, in order to refer to app data?
<faenil> none of the QStandardLocations seem to have it
<faenil> not even QCApp::appDirPath
<faenil> let's try Saviq :D ^
<Saviq> faenil, $PWD
<Saviq> faenil, if you mean files installed with your package
<Saviq> faenil, but http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qstandardpaths.html should work, too
<faenil> Saviq: I meant StandardPaths in my previous message
<faenil> I couldn't find any which points to my click package dir
<Saviq> faenil, yeah, none of those seems to make sense there
<faenil> PWD is pointing to home
<mcphail> faenil: iirc, one of the XDG-blah environment variables points to the install path
<Saviq> orly?
<faenil> mcphail: ok, I'll look into those, RUNTIME_DIR didn't help
<mcphail> faenil: yes - I can't find the details right now but there is an enviromant variable which is set
<faenil> There should definitely be a "how to bundle and access application data" in the app development tutorials :/
<faenil> mcphail: ok I'll keep looking for it, thank you
<mcphail> faenil: yes - it is buried in there somewhere because I was reading it the other night
<faenil> mcphail: the only related bit I found so far is this
<faenil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ApplicationConfinement#Application_environment
<faenil> but it didn't help
<DanChapman> faenil: QCoreApplication::applicationDirPath should return the path to the apps binary. or even QDir::currentPath should also return something useful
<faenil> DanChapman: the app binary is qmlscene, so that won't help
<DanChapman> ahh now that's a problem.
<DanChapman> :-D
<faenil> eh :P
<popey> seb128: sorry for the delay, was afk. no, not seen that.
<Saviq> faenil, I'm sure that's a solved problem, try #ubuntu-app-devel, prolly a better channel for that
<faenil> DanChapman: and QDir, since it uses PWD afaik, returns home/phablet
<faenil> Saviq: yeah I'll try there, thanks...yes I'm finding it surprising that there's no trivial solution :)
<Saviq> faenil, APP_DIR
<faenil> Saviq: I'm quite sure QStandardPaths wraps that as well, but let me try
<mcphail> faenil: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/platform/guides/app-confinement/
<Saviq> faenil, that page says "PWD: a chdir() to the installation directory is performed prior to launching the app", if that's not the case, needsfixin'
<faenil> thanks, that page is useful
<Saviq> faenil, I just checked, /proc/`pidof app`/cwd points to the app install dir
<Saviq> faenil, how are you launching your app?
<faenil> yes...
 * faenil headdesks
<Saviq> ;)
<faenil> XD
<faenil> I need a special env var and qtcreator resets QML2_IMPORT_PATH so I have to do it via cmdline...of course the poor system didn't know the correct path...
<jgdx> mpt, re: bug 1424149 If I create a custom MMS APN with fields 'Mickey Mouse' and 'http://disney.com', neither the fields, nor the MMS APN can be unset/removed.
<ubot5> bug 1424149 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "[system-settings] Ubuntu Phone: Remove current APN for MMS" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1424149
<mpt> jgdx, how was it possible for them to set those values in the first place, when they didnât work?
<mpt> (âthemâ -> âyouâ
<lotuspsychje> mariogrip: did you see your article of softpedia?
<Eidriaen> anyone here?
<lotuspsychje> Eidriaen: 300 users are
<mariogrip> lotuspsychje: Awesome!
<lotuspsychje> mariogrip: great isnt it :p :p
<Eidriaen> I've got a HTC Desire Z and I'm trying to install Ubuntu on it, but I'm not the most technical, so something isn't going right
<lotuspsychje> !devices | Eidriaen
<ubot5> Eidriaen: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<mariogrip> lotuspsychje: Yeah! :D
<jgdx> mpt, this [1] is the way we 'Save' a preferred MMS. It gives us no way of telling if 'disney.com' works or not. Maybe sergiusens can confirm/contradict? [1] https://gist.github.com/sergiusens/703f3eb664b05b891b91
<Eidriaen> I tried following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/flipped_vision#General but my phone won't accept the files I downloaded as a firmware, copied two zip files over to the SD card and got in recovery mode
<Eidriaen> am I missing a step? I get the red triangle when I click "recovery"
<mpt> jgdx, Iâm sorry I canât tell what that code does. Anyway, the last sentence I wrote in the âAPNâ spec section: âIf [activation] fails, the spinner should revert to âActivateâ, the dialog contents should become sensitive again, and the dialog contents should scroll to the top to reveal the error text âAPN activation failed.ââ
<mpt> jgdx, so there would be no way you can save APN details without activating them
<mpt> And no way you can activate them, obviously, unless they work
<jgdx> sergiusens, is there a way to confirm that an MMS APN (Context) 'works'? /cc awe, abeato
<mpt> If you can activate an APN that doesnât work, I â¦ I donât know what activation is any more
<abeato> jgdx, can't say, you can try to activate it with activate-context script, but that does not test MMS proxy, server, etc. params
<jgdx> abeato, right, so our best shot is to talk to the mms service.
<abeato> jgdx, yes, try to send an MMS from the messaging app
<jgdx> abeato, doesn't help USS though :p
<abeato> USS?
<jgdx> ubuntu system settings
<abeato> jgdx, ah... :)
<abeato> another TLA :p
<jgdx> lol
<jgdx> I try to use "Settings" instead.
<abeato> :)
<sturmflut-work> beuno: mhall119 mentioned on G+ that the app store API will pre-filter search results according to GeoIP magic, so you don't see apps which are not intended for the country the source IP address is located in. Is that correct?
<beuno> sturmflut-work, it is correct, yes
<doflaherty> If I've added my google account in system settings, shouldn't the GMail webapp automatically log me in?
<jgdx> doflaherty, is gmail allowed to access the account?
<doflaherty> jgdx yes
<mpt> kemmko1, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityAndPrivacySettings#common-behavior
<g105b> The gmail app never worked for me, I kept on having to re-add the account over and over.
<kemmko1> mpt: . cheers
<g105b> I never once have had a notification from gmail app
<brunch875> HEULLLAAA
<g105b> What he said.
<doflaherty> I disabled access, started the gmail app again, got a popup that said "Gmail wants to access your google account" so I clicked allow
<doflaherty> then it dumped me on the login page
<doflaherty> I have seen notifications though...
<dadexix86> hi, sometimes my phone crash and reboots. what is the best way to investigate this problem?
<popey> dadexix86: does it actually fully reboot (bq logo) or just restart unity?
<dadexix86> popey, now that I think of it, probably it is just the second. I don't know how exactly works it, but I think that it is something equivalent to a lightdm restart on the pc. it appears the rotating ubuntu logo
<popey> yes
<popey> look in /var/crash and see if there's a recent .crash file
<popey> and look in ~/.cache/upstart and look for most recent log files, like unity8.log maybe
<Saviq> jgdx, hey, can you explain bug #1444002 in a bit more detail? the app/splash screen should come in on screen immediately
<ubot5> bug 1444002 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "[launcher] visual feedback on tap is too subtle" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1444002
<jgdx> Saviq, sure. It isn't always shown immediately.
<Saviq> jgdx, your bug says reproducible "Always", so which one? ;)
<Saviq> jgdx, if you could post if a particular app is causing that maybe, a video could be helpful
<jgdx> Saviq, oke doke
<dadexix86> popey, in /var/crash there are crash files named _sbin_upstart.32011.crash and _sbin_upstart.32011.upload that were created around when the crash happened
<popey> dadexix86: so the crashes have been uploaded to errors.ubuntu.com - good.
<popey> dadexix86: if you're so inclined you could go to system settings -> security & privacy -> diagnostics -> previous error reports, then "adb shell" in once the browser starts, and "ps aux | grep webbrowser" and pm me the link, I can take a look at them for you.
<popey> (the link being the secret url the browser has opened which shows you all your phones crash reports)
<popey> (they're not public btw)
<dadexix86> popey, in ~/.cache/upstart there are a lot of .gz log files created around the time of the crash. I do now the thing of the crash report link, thanks!
<popey> ok
<dadexix86> popey, is it this? https://errors.ubuntu.com/user/6b4986b91261ec5d9fc93d5f65dd5f25c8bccb7a9f95d372a48066d6b3e95b7b7b46ba8a0ca0be2f1d6aa01686ec4cf8e186ec2d9445ee191f417e5381e26e1d
<popey> looks good
<popey> cant see a crash for today though
<popey> most recent was lunchtime yesterday
<popey> (unless these are all out of sequence)
<popey> maybe it only just uploaded and hasn't been processed, I wonder.
<popey> I'll keep that page open and refresh a bit later and look for it
<dadexix86> popey, ok thanks :) I cannot access them unfortunately.
<jgdx> Saviq, changed the narrative of the bug. Whaddaya think?
<Saviq> jgdx, so you mean there's no touch-down effect?
<jgdx> Saviq, yes
<t1mp> how can I find out the phone number of the sim card that is in my bq ubuntu phoen?
<Saviq> jgdx, but you said there's a delay when launching apps, how long would you say that delay?
<Saviq> t1mp, you can try with /usr/share/ofono/scripts/list-modems
<popey> dadexix86: np
<Saviq> t1mp, but it's not always there
<jgdx> Saviq, on krillin there's like 0.5 seconds for the Facebook app after a reboot.
<jgdx> Saviq, I realized it's not the lag that matters, it is the moment where nothing happens.
<Saviq> jgdx, where, it does matter, there should be no lag ;)
<Saviq> s/where/well/
<jgdx> Saviq, but that's not the scope of this bug.
<jgdx> *in
<dadexix86> t1mp, Settings > Infos on the phone
<jgdx> Saviq, lack of feedback in the launcher makes the launcher feel sluggish no matter how fast it launches the app.
<Saviq> jgdx, not sure I agree, if the reaction (app coming in from the right) is instant, and, FWIW, no lag here
<jgdx> Saviq, I strongly disagree, as well as being confused by the inconsistency.
<t1mp> Saviq: hmm it is there. I see a few numbers but they don't seem to be the sim number
<jgdx> Saviq, I can maybe cite some material that highlights the importance of immediate feedback?
<jgdx> â¦ in the bug
<Saviq> jgdx, don't get me wrong, we should add a touch-down effect to the launcher, but we should find out why you have a .5s lag in there
<jgdx> Saviq, ah, ok. Sorry.
<t1mp> dadexix86: I don't see Infos
<Saviq> jgdx, but it doesn't mean the immediate feedback needs to necessarily be under your finger, especially when the touch target is going away as soon as you touch it
<t1mp> maybe it is an old image
<jgdx> Saviq, I can make a bug for the .5 sec lag so we get it tracked, and add a video there. Ok?
<jgdx> Saviq, why should the launcher be different from the app scope, or vice versa?
<jgdx> that statement is true for both, the target goes away after a tap
<Saviq> jgdx, I'm not saying it should :)
<dadexix86> t1mp, I have it localized, but it is the last-but-one row, before "Restore", the icon on the left is the Ubuntu logo... on which image are you?
<Saviq> jgdx, I'm just saying you wouldn't notice if the reaction was, indeed, instant, and the app would come in straight away
<Saviq> jgdx, more than that, if we're blocking on tap, the touch feedback would be just as blocked as the app coming in on screen, so that's the more important thing to fix :)
<Saviq> jgdx, so yeah, please file a bug, video very much welcome
<jgdx> Saviq, will do
 * BOHverkill got his bq aquaris e4.5 ubuntu edition :D
<brunch875> Enjoy, BOHverkill!
<brunch875> you'll soon be getting a big update too :)
<BOHverkill> i will
<BOHverkill> brunch875: k
<t1mp> dadexix86: r19, 19 february. I need to update it
<mariogrip> i
<mariogrip> i'm trying to setup an system-image server, but i cannot find out what the file_device= .tar.gz and .build files should include
<AskUbuntu> Why are the Ubuntu SDK Publish and Devices tab blank? | http://askubuntu.com/q/609241
<cwayne> mariogrip, Tassadar would be a good person to ask, he's got a server setup already for n5
<BOHverkill> Can I change the time format from 12 to 24h or depends that on the language?
<duflu> BOHverkill: Not sure but when I logged a bug against the clock, I was told it was specific to my locale (en-AU)
<duflu> So yeah the language affects it
<BOHverkill> k but it would be nice ;)
<nik90> BOHverkill: the feature to change time format between 12h/24h has been requested a lot and it needs to be in the system settings app.
<nik90> BOHverkill: clock app cant do it since it can only change its own format and not that of the system leading to inconsistencies
<BOHverkill> nik90: k
<toshiba_> hi, I have a smartphone bq aquarius 4.5E but I can not synchronize with my notebook ubuntu 14:04 , what can I do ?
<toshiba_> help,me
<lotuspsychje> toshiba_: install the tools from topic
<toshiba_> what topic
<lotuspsychje> toshiba_: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices/
<lotuspsychje> toshiba_: Install phablet-tools package
<dobey> toshiba_: what do you mean by "sync" exactly? it doesn't show up as a drive, or you are expecting some sort of contacts or such sync automatically?
<kenvandine> seb128, i just noticed that getByName call for regulatory-information was already setting a property, not used inline in the push to the page stack
<kenvandine> so the updates page was the only one being used that way
<jay_jack> hi guys. i have installed latest stable ubuntu-touch on my nexus4. does anybody know how I could enable both WiFi and 3G connections. i have played around with the ofono scripts, and ifconfig does show both interfaces, but 3G never works as soon as WiFi is up. does anybody have a clue how to get both running?
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, o/
<basti_> does anybody know where to find the ubuntu touch release scedule? or is there no planning online?
<oSoMoN> rpadovani, \o
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, how are you? :-)
<oSoMoN> rpadovani, not too bad, and you?
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, so so. I fell and I have a sprained left knee and left ankle, and probably I broke my tibia
<rpadovani> apart of that, good times :D
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, so, I pinged to ask if there is something you think I could focus on browser, or I should just jumping bug by bug :-)
<oSoMoN> rpadovani, ouch, sorry to hear that, I hope this isnât as bad as it sounds, or at the very least that it heals fully and quickly
<oSoMoN> rpadovani, let me try and find something interesting for you :)
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, I don't have too much pain, it's only annoyng to use crutches. Thanks :-)
<dobey> jay_jack: there isn't a way to have both interfaces active at the same time. how would it know which one to route traffic through?
<mindspin2015> stupid question: I wrote a simple html5 linklist and published it in the SDK to my Phone (aquaris) . How do I start the app?
<jay_jack> dobey: well, there would be obviously a default route. and you can always specify which interface you want to use, i.e. curl --interface www.google.com
<dobey> mindspin2015: it should appear in the apps scope. you might need to pull down to refresh in that scope to have it show up though
<bzoltan> mindspin2015:  it should be listed in the apps grid. You can search for the name in teh Apps scope too
<bzoltan> dobey:  darn it... I lost by a sec
<dobey> heh
<BOHverkill> anyone an idea why adb is not working?
<dobey> you don't have developer mode enabled and/or the screen is locked/off, or there's a problem with your usb cable or the port on your computer?
<jgdx> abeato, hey, are you still able to repro bug 1415833 consistently?
<ubot5> bug 1415833 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Wrong tech set in Cellular screen" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1415833
<BOHverkill> deshack: udev is finding the device and the screen is not locked
<BOHverkill> sorry
<BOHverkill> dobey:
<BOHverkill> and developer mode is on
<dobey> BOHverkill: and developer mode is enabled on the phone?
<BOHverkill> dobey: yes
<dobey> BOHverkill: you are on 14.04? add ppa:ubuntu-sdk-team/ppa and apt-get update && apt-get upgrade, and try again
<BOHverkill> dobey: no and thats maybe the problem, i am using arch linux
<dobey> oh
<dobey> yeah, i'm not sure all the definitions and/or code needed are available there
<Saviq> oSoMoN, hey, Q about new browser: when "restore tabs" off, will it still recover the open tabs if it was killed by OOM (as opposed to terminated by the user)?
<Se7> hello friends
<oSoMoN> Saviq, good question, I havenât tested this use case, Iâd say it wonât, as thereâs no distinction made on how it was last terminated
<brunch875> Hello Se7
<brunch875> I hope you're having a good day!
<oSoMoN> Saviq, a bug is in order if you think thatâs not expected
<Se7> yes brunch875 great tnx
<Saviq> oSoMoN, yup, will confirm and file one
<Se7> how about you?
<brunch875> It's fine, other than very little productivity :P
<Se7> :)
<Saviq> oSoMoN, FWIW, there's no app doing The Right Thing yet, and I'm not sure its even possible right now (like if you're suspended and the user swipes you away, I don't know if you get SIGCONT before a SIGTERM)
<oSoMoN> Saviq, right, itâs a tricky problem, but it doesnât mean we shouldnât try to solve it :)(
<Saviq> oSoMoN, oh no, I just meant we may need to tweak other things first to let you know when you're stopped 'by the user' vs. otherwise
<AskUbuntu> Ubuntu Phone in Nexus 4 | http://askubuntu.com/q/609297
<kenvandine> Elleo, hey, do you find it frustrating that the getter for ContentTransfer.items automatically sets the state to collected?
<kenvandine> if a qml app that is sharing/exporting the content wants to do anything with the values in items, it gets marked as collected
<kenvandine> but i think that should only happen if it's the app receiving the content
<kenvandine> like just printing activeTransfer.items[0].text marks it as collected
<kenvandine> Elleo, do you think the QML bindings could only change the state by the destination app?
<kenvandine> s/could/should/
<mariogrip> i think i got the system-image server running now
<mariogrip> will ubuntu-device-flash wipe system and data partition? if yes, is there a way to prevent that?
<dobey> mariogrip: it will if you use --wipe or --bootstrap; don't use those options if you don't want to wipe your data. also, back up your data :)
<dobey> mariogrip: you can just tar up ~phablet on the phone as a way to back up your data, and just adb pull the tarball over to your PC
<mariogrip> dobey: I was thinking about the android partition
<dobey> mariogrip: there is no android after you flash with ubuntu-device-flash. there is only ubuntu.
<kenvandine> mandel, don't forget to update your fix-network and fix-network-errors branches
<mandel> kenvandine, I have not, I already own you a drink, I'm working on it as soon as I get my chinese food :)
<kenvandine> yum, i want some :)
<dobey> mu shu pork?
<kenvandine> pmcgowan, the ubuntu-settings-components fix for bug 1390136, i'm kicking a CI run to make sure we have passing tests for the corresponding settings branch
<ubot5> bug 1390136 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu Vivid) "need a transition state for indicators reflecting laggy backends" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1390136
<kenvandine> pmcgowan, assuming all is well, i'll create a silo for it tomorrow
<pmcgowan> kenvandine, great, can then put that big bug to rest
<kenvandine> yeah
<mandel> kenvandine, get away! its mine ;)
<kenvandine> ;-D
<abeato> jgdx, don't know, will try tomorrow
<Lihis> Hi all
<cwayne_> Tassadar, heya, I think mariogrip was lookin' to figure out how to setup a s-i server, had a thought that it'd be super awesome to have it setup the same server as N5 (assuming that would make multirom work maybe?)
<Tassadar> well yeah, I already told you I can host that port too
<Tassadar> just make it compileable)
<mariogrip> http://system-image.ubports.com :D
<mariogrip>             "ubuntu_touch": {
<mariogrip>                 "enabled": true,
<mariogrip>                 "base_url": "http://system-image.ubports.com"
<mariogrip>             },
<mariogrip> is that how i add it to multiromgr?
<Tassadar> yeah
<Tassadar> and you need to add gpg keys to your recovery
<Tassadar> https://github.com/Tasssadar/Team-Win-Recovery-Project/blob/master/phablet/system-image-upgrader#L216
<mariogrip> Tassadar: where can i find the source of the ported version of TWRP multirom to oneplus one?
<Tassadar> I dunno
<mariogrip> xP
<Tassadar> should be the same actualy
<BOHverkill> finally i found the solution :D
<BOHverkill> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/25700106/cant-run-an-android-application-on-my-bq-aquaris-e5-hd-in-ubuntu
<dobey> indeed you cannot run android applications in ubuntu
<dobey> oh, that title is very misleading
<dobey> BOHverkill: glad you got it working :)
<Lihis> I get "fs_mgr: Error parsing mount_flags" in dmesg and "recovery: unhandled page fault (11)" when booting to recovery, here is recovery.log: http://pastebin.com/10wefDE6
<Lihis> Is my fstab in wrong format? Fstab can be found here https://github.com/Lihis/TWRP_device_huawei_u8800pro/blob/master/recovery.fstab
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, in the webbrowser bug tracker, should I assign myself bug I fix both for project and for package or only for the project?
<dobey> Lihis: /sdcardvfat/dev/block/mmcblk1p1/dev/block/mmcblk1 flags=display="Micro SDcard";storage;wipeingui;removable definitely looks wrong
<dobey> notice the dev listed twice
<dobey> meh, paste killed the whitespace
<dobey> but not sure what you're doing exactly
<Lihis> dobey: I'm trying to build recovery, currently I can access the adb shell but the stays off.
<oSoMoN> rpadovani, usually for both, although thereâs a bit of a mess there, at some point Iâll need to clarify that
<Lihis> screen stays off*
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, oki doki, thanks
<AskUbuntu> Ubuntu Aquaris System Settings > Updates | http://askubuntu.com/q/609307
<brunch875> ^That also happened to me
<brunch875> I thought it was because of poor connection
<mariogrip> Tassadar: can i set alias on devices in the image server? (need A0001, bacon, A0001 One)
<Tassadar> no..?
<Tassadar> just use the one that's in recovery, not sure why you would need any othe
<Tassadar> r
<mariogrip> "No updates found for this device" and i think that may be because the device name is A0001
<mariogrip> and i set bacon as the device name on my image server
<Tassadar> well run "system-image-cli -vvvv" in ssh/adb shell
<Tassadar> no use in just guessing
<mariogrip> Tassadar:  is multiromgr using model number when i is quarrying my system-image server?
<Tassadar> it's using the base board name
<Tassadar> (the one that's first in the list)
<Tassadar> I think
<mariogrip> also A0001
<mariogrip> then, i'm wondering if i can set alias on my system-image server
<mariogrip> for devices
<mariogrip> somethin like bacon,A0001
<BOHverkill> mhhh my bq is not playing music :(  but that is something for tomorror
<mariogrip> Tassadar: will install ubuntu touch work without gpg keys and without editing system-image-updater in my recovery?
<Tassadar> no
<Tassadar> either you add your gpg keys or you disable the gpg check, you need to modify the updater for both
<mariogrip> okey
<pancake> hi
<pancake> just got the ubuntu phone (bq) in my hands, and bricked it trying to flash the devel img
<pancake> wat du
<popey> define "bricked"
<popey> what exactly did you do?
<pancake> i put it in fastboot mode, i run the ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=devel --bootstrap
<popey> why?
<pancake> it flashes the recovery
<pancake> but never gets into it
<pancake> why i typed this command or why i want ubuntu-devel ?
<popey> yes, why all of it :)
<pancake> i missed many packages in the repos, also found several issues in the gui, and wanted tro try to devel branch
<pancake> err .. channel
<pancake> so?
<pancake> the flasher says: "Failed to enter Recovery"
<popey> so you don't need --bootstrap
<popey> and devel is older than what you previously had
<pancake> wat
<popey> also, we don't generally recommend using apt
<pancake> i cant enter in recovery mode, in fact i cant boot the system now. so i can only use the --boostrap
<popey> hold power and volup
<pancake> popey: its just for some specific cmdline tools
<popey> for ~10-15 seconds
<pancake> popey: this enters in fastboot mode
<popey> longer
<pancake> if i press power+anybutton for long time i get the device rebooted all the time
<pancake> if i just press volup, i get into the menu that i can choose recovery, fastboot and normal
<popey> so when you run the ubuntu-device-flash command now, what happens?
<pancake> when is now? which option should i choose?
<popey> let me get the command line
<pancake> fastboot is the only option that works
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/602035/how-do-i-use-ubuntu-device-flash-with-the-bq-aquaris-e4-5
<popey> the answer from john-mcaleely is accurate to flash it
<pancake> which is the newest firmware i can flash here?
<pancake> yeah that recovery seems to work :)
<pancake> popey: btw, the pkg i missed was 'git'
<pancake> which repo should i add to get it? because i though it was in the same place as 'gcc'
<popey> the repo we use for the rtm bq image is a fork of 14.10 which has a restricted set of packages
<popey> you could grab git from utopic
<pancake> how to do that?
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/599488/how-to-install-a-deb-file-in-ubuntu-touch/599489#599489
<pancake> i mean.. the url of that utopic/arm repo
<pancake> i know how to dpkg -i
<pancake> add-apt-repository -y ppa:???
<popey> you could modify your /etc/apt/sources.list and make it utopic then apt-get install the packages you want then put them back
<pancake> ok
<Elleo> kenvandine: it's not something I'd run into before, but it sounds reasonable to me that it should only be able to get collected from the destination
<pancake> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrTHvJ3MSt8
<pancake> yeah works :)
#ubuntu-touch 2015-04-15
<Jame> hello ?
<Jame> which hero can help me about indicator?
<Jame> I want send a special indicator to Notifications panel
<Jame> the special indicator can show text/image and also can press button to do something
<Jame> ?? help me !!
<RAOF> Jame: What do you mean by a special indicator?
<RAOF> If you'd like to add another icon, I believe the answer is âno, you don't get to do thatâ.
<RAOF> But you'd be able to notify under the Notifications indicator.
<RAOF> Which presumably has an API for quick actions, as the Messaging app uses it for replies.
<Jame> I am Jame, I was forced to leave because of disconnection
<Jame> so I can nnot receive
<RAOF> Jame: What do you mean by a special indicator?
<RAOF> If you'd like to add another icon, I believe the answer is âno, you don't get to do thatâ.
<RAOF> But you'd be able to notify under the Notifications indicator.
<RAOF> Which presumably has an API for quick actions, as the Messaging app uses it for replies.
<Jame> do you know the exact API in messaging-app?
<Jame> I can not find it
<RAOF> Jame: I believe you're looking for https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/platform/guides/push-notifications-client-guide/
<OrokuSaki> So... no support for CM-11.0 like SailFish?
<OrokuSaki> Howdy ogra_: =)
<OrokuSaki> I like the new kernel script by the way
<Jame> Hi RAOF: I have read https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/platform/guides/push-notifications-client-guide/, it's relative to network, but my requirement just in local device . so my direction still is the indicator!
<RAOF> Jame: Sorry, I don't know. I'd expect it to be possible, though.
<Jame> Now I need an example which can send indicator to the Notifications panel!
<Jame> It is a bit difficult for me, because I am a beginner about Ubuntu Touch!
<Jame> please help me , hero !
<robin-hero> Hi all! Did the new OTA update release?
<nhaines> Nope!
<nhaines> You'll know when it does, becuase there will be a daily announcement in the Landing Team summary.  Also your phone will tell you there's an update.
<robin-hero> nhaines: But there was no landing e-mail yesterday.
<nhaines> And likewise no OTA release.
<robin-hero> But it is in the OTA channel since 2 days: http://people.canonical.com/~lzemczak/landing-team/ota/
<nhaines> They're just making sure it doesn't cause phones to catch on fire and explode.
<nhaines> That's not the release channel.
<robin-hero> ahh :) i don't know that
<nhaines> Anyway, OTA updates have to go through some kind of regulatory testing.
<nhaines> That *will* be the update log, if QA lab phones don't catch on fire. :)
<robin-hero> :)
<robin-hero> just strange there was no e-mail yesterday...
<nhaines> It happens sometimes when they're busy and nothing else is going on.
<nhaines> But yes, they're so reliable and dedicated that it always makes me look twice when it's missing too.  :)
<robin-hero> :)
<robin-hero> I saw a lot of times the following word: "Arale". Is it a codename for a device? For MX4? :) I questioned it earlier, but noone answered. :)
<Jame> hero ? How to send indicator to the Notifications panel, like messaging, missed incoming call and so on
<Jame> Anyone familiar with messaging-app?
<robin-hero> Is bq aquaris E4.5 supports FM Radio? Just the Ubuntu touch doesn't support it yet?
<Jame> or indicator-messages-service ?
<Jame> please help me ?
<robin-hero> Jame: It is too early yet, developers will be here later.
<Jame> About how long ah?
<ogra_> robin-hero, right, the bq has a chip but there is no platform support for FM radio currently
<robin-hero> ogra_: And its it WIP?
<ogra_> it is on the TODO, not sure who works on it
<robin-hero> okay, it's and the navigation are what I miss in Ubuntu Touch :)
<ogra_> there are a bunch of nice internet radio apps in the store for the time being
<ogra_> (and yeah, navigation needs love, no doubt)
<robin-hero> ogra_: Any info about the OTA ? :) (I know I always asking this, but I am curoius :D )
<ogra_> soon :)
<robin-hero> i am none the wiser for it :D
<ogra_> lol
<AskUbuntu> Can Ubuntu Touch apps access bluetooth? Which policy groups do I need? | http://askubuntu.com/q/609493
<ogra_> i think it is at bq for the final QA run ... but i'm not sure
<robin-hero> ogra_: Thanks, so If everything goes well the update will release later today :)
<ogra_> or tomorrow, yeah
<robin-hero> :(
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Microvolunteering Day! :-D
<robin-hero> morning
<brunch875> 'gmorning!
<matv1> anyone having experience with http POST using XMLHttpRequest in js within qml ?
<matv1> its doing my head in :(
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/First-Ubuntu-Touch-Devel-Version-Based-on-Vivid-Is-Out-478430.shtml
<ogra_> hmm, a bit more research would have helped :P
<ogra_> (it is the second vivid based devel image, the first one was in december)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<robin-hero> from the article: "The development branch has been updated after a long time, but this is actually the second update in the series."
<ogra_> yeah :)
<ogra_> it is even quoted in the article
<lotuspsychje> and touch can be installed on nexus7 also
<matv1> or can anyone point me to source of a qml app using that?
<AskUbuntu> Is it possible to get ota updates after making system rw? | http://askubuntu.com/q/609516
<robin-hero> Hi! Can I make a backup from my SMS messages and restore on an other image (r20 to r22)?
<popey> robin-hero: they're in a database in your home directory, so I suspect you probably can
<ogra_> run find for "history-service" that should show you a .db file
<robin-hero> "find for "history-service"" is this a command?
<ogra_> a suggestion :)
<robin-hero> thanks :) I need to go now, I'll try to solve it :)
<seb128> do we have a bug open about some icons being duplicated in the dash sometime?
<seb128> I suspect that it's for pre-installed apps which also get updates through the store
<ogra_> that shouldnt happen
<ogra_> only if the app namespace changed and the developer didnt remove the old app from the store
<ogra_> preinstalled apps should all come from the store with the same namespace, if they dont, thats an app bug
<seb128> my vivid tablet ha a duplicate gallery
<ogra_> thats surely a bug
<seb128> duplicated music and twitter as well
<popey> never seen that!
<ogra_> i have, but onyl with my own apps if i use two different namespaces for local testing
<popey> right
<popey> i mean, not under "normal" circumstances
<ogra_> yeah
<seb128> well, that n7 is a stock device that I use to test vivid
<PhilippeP> After inserting a SD card, how to say to the phone (bq) to use it ? global or per app settings ?
<ogra_> PhilippeP, music, videos and documents that you put on the SD should just show up everywhere automatically, the system should just start to use it if it was properly formatted as vfat ... else you need to format it with the "external devices" tool first
<nik90> ogra_: is there a way to detect a SD card storage point? At the moment all apps write to .local/share/app-name, or to .config/app-name
<ogra_> nik90, no, not yet ...
<ogra_> the camera app does something like that though ...
<ogra_> but camera is also kind of special
<mcphail> PhilippeP: you have to select "sd card for storage" from the camera app if you want to use that
<nik90> well I know about app_armor permissions that one can add to the apparmor file to request access to any write location
<nik90> I will check out the camera app code to see how they check sd card storage
<ogra_> we dont have a storage framework in the platform api yet
<ogra_> that is supposed to solve it
<ogra_> i think camera does it directly, which is not an option for store apps
<PhilippeP> ogra_:  ok , it's installed , recognized and reformatted ... I'll try put something on it and test
<ogra_> PhilippeP, it should also show up via USB on your desktop in the file manager
<ogra_> so you can drag/drop your music etc
<PhilippeP> mcphail: I've tried but the camera app does not show the SD option ...
<mcphail> PhilippeP: drag up the menu from the bottom
<nothingspecial> I have the boot loop thing on my bq. I have tried this http://askubuntu.com/questions/602035/how-do-i-use-ubuntu-device-flash-with-the-bq-aquaris-e4-5 but no joy. I get "Failed to enter Recovery" and the phone continues to boot loop.
<PhilippeP> mcphail: that's what I did (i found a screenshot ona askubuntu ... but the SD button does not show up
<Jame> hello ? in indicator-messages-service, there is a line call indicator_messages_service_skeleton_new in the main function of the file src/messages-service.c. please where is
<Jame> hello ? in indicator-messages-service, there is a line call indicator_messages_service_skeleton_new in the main function of the file src/messages-service.c. please where is from ï¼
<ogra_> nothingspecial, did you use the --recovery-image option with the recovery.img file that is linked there ?
<nothingspecial> yes
<ogra_> and you had the device properly in bootloader mode and used --bootstrap ?
<nothingspecial> ogra_: yes I used --bootstrap, what do you mean properly in bootloader mode?
<Jame> I do not know where is indicator_messages_service_skeleton_new
<ogra_> i mean that it wasnt in recovery but in the bootloader (which is a bit tricky to select with the volume keys as described in the article)
<mcphail> PhilippeP: no idea then. Have you tried closing the camera app fully and reopening after inserting/formatting sd card?
<Jame> who can help me?
<ogra_> Jame, #ubuntu-app-devcel is probably a better channel for such questions
<ogra_> #ubuntu-app-devel
<nothingspecial> ogra_: it was in fastboot rather than recovery. Choosing recovery just starts the bootloop again
<Jame> thanks
<ogra_> did it show up in "fastboot devices" on the when it was in that mode ?
<ogra_> *on the PC
<nothingspecial> ogra_: how do I check that? The phone did say stuff like "transfering" and stuff like that after running the flash
<klbik> Hi,  i`m trying to develop simple ubuntu application. This application should connect to remove mysql server, query and display data in UbuntuListView. Project was created in  Qt Creator 3.1.1 as QML app with c++ plugin (cmake). In my cpp class, i connect to mysql server using QSqlDatabase db = QSqlDatabase::addDatabase("QMYSQL"); according to qt documentation.  On my desktop (ubuntu 14.04) application works fine (after installi
<klbik> to run this application on my aquaris E4.5 ubuntu edition i got this error:   QSqlDatabase: QMYSQL driver not loaded QSqlDatabase: available drivers: QSQLITE Open database:  false  Do yo have any ideas ?
<PhilippeP> mcphail: i will reboot the phone and continue after lunch  :) thanks anyway
<PhilippeP_Lunch> mcphail: the rebbot did the trick :) now lunch
<mcphail> enjoy!
<tosky> klbik: I'm not a Ubuntu touch developer, but it looks like the Qt version shipped with Ubuntu Touch lacks the Qt mysql driver
 * mcphail notes that should probably be a bug report
<ogra_> PhilippeP_Lunch, ah, there is a bug open for that and i think a fix for it is in this weeks OTA image
<mcphail> \o/
<ogra_> tosky, for what reason would we run a database server on a phone ?
<ogra_> or even waste space on disk for it
<tosky> ogra_: I was just stating what I saw; to answer your question, well, it depends on your definition of database...
<ogra_> there is sqlite and U1DB support
<Elleo> ogra_: I think he wants to connect to a remote mysql server, not run one locally
<ogra_> if you want to writre an app using the mysql driver, i guess you will have to ship it with the click package of the app
<tosky> klbik: see what ogra_ says ^^
 * tosky is just the messenger
<tosky> ogra_: I guess it was already asked, but is there some support (or at least it's not forbidden) for inter-app shared libraries?
<ogra_> Elleo, sure, but we cant ship each and every possible Ot extension by default ... i would love if we had a proper Terminal that i can embed in apps but would have to use the Terminal implementation that the terminal app ships if i would do that
<ogra_> tosky, no, there isnt ... you app cant look over the fence and only has access to very few dirs on disk
<ogra_> even sharing data between apps needs to go through a controlled system service
<ogra_> (content-hub/url-dispatcher)
<tosky> ogra_: and it's not planned at all? I see it as a big blocker for porting some huge applications to the device
<tosky> (again, I think this was for sure already asked)
<ogra_> once the phone switches to snappy it will be possible to have framework packages
<tosky> snappy?
<ogra_> at the current state you would have to have the libs included in the platform api
<tosky> oh, I see, snappy
<ogra_> yes, snappy ... the future of ubuntu :)
<klbik> tosky:  i`m reading it..
<ogra_> what exactly do you plan to port/write ?
<tosky> I guess it's too early to ask for a rough deadline (six months? One year)?
<ogra_> closer to the latter i fear
<tosky> well, I'm not planning right now to port, but I suspect many in the KDE community could look at the device
<tosky> with Frameworks 5 we have tons of small libraries
<ogra_> snappy completely relies on systemd ... the phone kernels we use are to old ... systemd dropped support for them in a recent update
<ogra_> until that problem is solved, you wont see a snappy port ... and i'm not sure the framework idea will be included in the "normal" phone build, it would be throw-away work
<ogra_> so for now you have to bundle your libs in the click package
<zbenjamin> ogra_: hey i currently upgraded my phone to the new devel-proposed image. It now has the 15.04 fw but apps using the framework will just close
<tosky> yes, I understand, it would be a lot of throw-away work
<zbenjamin> ogra_: is there a known problem?
<ogra_> zbenjamin, i'm not sure the 15.04 framework is already shipped, i think lool took care of that
<zbenjamin> ogra_: click framework list on the device shows it already
<ogra_> file a bug then
<ogra_> probably something is wrong
<zbenjamin> ogra_: whats the right place for that?
<ogra_> (and let lool know)
<ogra_> ubuntu-touch-meta for general framework stuff
<ogra_> zbenjamin, did you check your app lo for errors btw  ?
<ogra_> *log
<zbenjamin> ogra_: the log is not even created
<ogra_> (perhaps it isnt actually framework related at all)
<ogra_> oh, wow
<zbenjamin> ogra_: changing the fw back to 14.10 makes it work
<ogra_> anythin in the ubuntu-app-launch log ?
<zbenjamin> ogra_: where is that again?
<ogra_> ~/.cache/upstart/
<ogra_> hmm, or not :/
<zbenjamin> ogra_: hm something changed. it started to work oO
<ogra_> lol
<zbenjamin> lets see after a reboot
<zbenjamin> ogra_: interesting its failing again after the reboot
<EdwardMorbius> Is OTA-3 out yet?
<popey> EdwardMorbius: no.
<EdwardMorbius> ok, I read on the mailing list something about Wednesday so I thought it might be out.
<AskUbuntu> How do I deploy an app to my Ubuntu phone with the Ubuntu SDK? | http://askubuntu.com/q/609546
<zbenjamin> ogra_: weird the ubuntu-app-launch log seems to be nowhere oO
<AskUbuntu> Building ubuntu touch app with sql (mysql) support problem | http://askubuntu.com/q/609553
<AskUbuntu> BQ Aquaris E4.5 sound not working in web applications and mediaplayer | http://askubuntu.com/q/609558
<jgdx> abeato, good day sir, any luck?
<Se7> hellou
<AskUbuntu> AppArmor blocks XMLHttpRequest on phone qmlapp | http://askubuntu.com/q/609571
<abeato> jgdx, completely forgot this morning, I'm gonna try now
<jgdx> abeato, good s tuff
<nhaines> Huh, I just tried to switch my Nexus 7 from devel-proposed to devel, but 'system-image-cli --list-channels' only shows devel-proposed.
<nhaines> I wonder if this is an artifact of MultiROM Manager.
<jgdx> Norwegians won at caffeine: http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2015#tech-caffeine
<jgdx> AMA
<abeato> jgdx, cannot reproduce now, arale / vivid
<jgdx> abeato, and I can't repro on krillin/vivid nor mako/vivid. I wonder if this was something beneath libqofono and Settings.
<jgdx> ofono or dbus or something
<jgdx> (not likely)
<abeato> jgdx, difficult to say... probably a race condition of some kind :-/
<abeato> the bad thing is that maybe it will reappear in the future
<abeato> probably it depends on the start-up order of something
<jgdx> abeato, actually, you used an image from 26th of January. 17th of February there was a small refactor of Settings's technology code (to make has3G work).
<abeato> jgdx, ok, I guess that could have changed things
<jgdx> abeato, that refactor included improved libqofono0.7 support. Libqofono0.7 landed 14th of January.
<jgdx> so there was a month with suboptimal libqofono0.7 support. Could be it.
<abeato> jgdx, I see... well maybe that fixed something... or maybe it juts hide the bug away ;)
<abeato> jgdx, anyway as it is not reproducible now maybe you can change to invalid
<abeato> we can re-open if we see it again
<jgdx> abeato, I'm cautiously going to say it was the former. Not to say libqofono broke API, but a lot changed 14th of January.
<jgdx> abeato, roger
<abeato> sure
<zbenjamin> ted: where does ubuntu-app-launch put its logs these days?
<chookey> Hello Guys! Any news about today's OTA update?
<brunch875> today?
<brunch875> are we getting updates today?
<k1l> updates updates updates. who doesnt like updates :)
<ogra_> geez ... kids ...
<brunch875> ogra, give us candy
<ogra_> updates are like a good wine ... let them ripen long enough ...
<popey> then smash them against a boat?
<ogra_> only the sparkling ones
<brunch875> hm... is the calendar bugged now?
<brunch875> It doesn't sync with google anymore
<brunch875> whoopety do https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bug/1442931
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1442931 in Ubuntu Calendar App "sync with google calendar not working" [Undecided,New]
<BOHverkill> i was wondering why the music is not playing: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1438486 ;)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1438486 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) " Turning off sound in Pathwind mutes other apps too " [Undecided,Confirmed]
<chookey> brunch875: I read it somewhere
<chookey> did it change?
<brunch875> What did change?
<chookey> the OTA's release date
<brunch875> it's all news for me
<chookey> I read this wednesday in an email
<brunch875> If it's today I can't wait :))
<chookey> landing email: "Another good news is that we pushed our OTA-3 release candidate to the RC channel today. This still needs some testing both on our and BQ side, but at least krillin #270 passed our QA team's regression testing - which is good. The planned ETA for the OTA-3 official release is this week's Wednesday."
<brunch875> oh, I've read that too
<brunch875> but I skimmed through because I was enroute so I missed the last bit
<brunch875> thought it was only RC stuff
<brunch875> I can't wait to see the amount of stuff fixed.
<kenvandine> dednick, see my latest comment on https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/ubuntu-system-settings/1390136.laggy-backends/+merge/253395
<kenvandine> dednick, i ran the CI job twice, same failure
<dednick> kenvandine: ok. i'll take a look
<kenvandine> but other branches passed during the same timeframe
<kenvandine> the test that's failing might be misleading
<kenvandine> dednick, thx
<seb128> pete-woods, hey, is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-network-prompt still a thing/useful?
<pete-woods> seb128: no, it's a dead project
<seb128> pete-woods, we should maybe ask for it to be removed from ubuntu then, it current fails to build
<seb128> pete-woods, can you do that? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-network-prompt/+filebug
<pete-woods> seb128: that sounds like a good idea
<seb128> I can do the removal
<seb128> just dump a 1 line reason for the recod
<seb128> record
<seb128> like "supersedeed by unity8 dialogs" or something
<pete-woods> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-network-prompt/+bug/1444484
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1444484 in indicator-network-prompt (Ubuntu) "This is a dead project, it should be removed from the archive" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> pete-woods, thanks
<seb128> pete-woods, what about unity-voice? seems to have your name as well on it, if so can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/unity-voice/update-symbols-file/+merge/255941 ?
<pete-woods> seb128: that one's less clear. it provides the voice recognition for HUD
<BOHverkill> my bluetooth headphones are working on my bq :D
<pete-woods> but you can't access that any more since we removed HUD from the phone
<seb128> pete-woods, k, maybe just accept the .symbol update to fix the build then?
<pete-woods> seb128: that works for me
<seb128> cool
<BOHverkill> but the controls are not working :(
<kenvandine> dednick, i dunno, i looked at the numbers of passing tests and indeed it looks like all the tests ran, and all except that one test failed
<kenvandine> and i struggle to see why your branch could cause that
<kenvandine> but that test did pass for other branches yesterday
 * kenvandine scratches head
<seb128> pete-woods, thanks
<kenvandine> jgdx, is ubuntu_system_settings.tests.test_datetime.TimeDateTestCase.test_tz_list_initially_empty the test that's commonly flaky?
<jgdx> kenvandine, aye
<kenvandine> that same test keeps failing in dednick's branch, but not failing in some other branches
<kenvandine> jgdx, dednick: i kicked another rebuild with hopes to see it pass
<kenvandine> dednick, i think that is a known flaky test, so maybe it's just bad luck :)
<dednick> kenvandine: ya. i didnt think it was related.
<dednick> will check on the build later.
<kenvandine> thx, just don't waste time on it yet :)
<kenvandine> dednick, i'll come yelling if you need to :)
<kenvandine> mandel, ping again about those branches that need rebasing :)
<brunch875> what the hell are the 'silos'?
 * kenvandine has his nag hat on today :)
<kenvandine> jgdx, you're handling getting silo 6 unblocked for qa right?
<jgdx> kenvandine, yes
<kenvandine> cool
<jgdx> kenvandine, wanted to ask you: does the security ap test suite mock the passcode/passphrase stuff?
<kenvandine> for sim pin? or the other locking?
<kenvandine> i mocked the sim pin stuff, but no idea about screen locking
<jgdx> kenvandine, got it
<seb128> jgdx, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/security-focus-correct-entry/+merge/254804 rejected?!
<seb128> jgdx, you could at least comment saying why
<lool> ogra_: 15.04 frameworks are in archive/images, enabled in store, and I believe in SDK too
<jgdx> seb128, sorry, added comment
<ogra_> lool, hmm, ok ... somethin does not seem to work right though ... for zbenjamin
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> jgdx, you could ask for tests to be added rather than reject
<jgdx> seb128, this is what you asked me?
<seb128> jgdx, I don't understand why the branch is rejected
<jgdx> seb128, because I'm proposing it instead. I thought you had no time.
<seb128> jgdx, if we need tests that doesn't make that one invalid, it just means we need to stack another changeset or commit on top to add a test
<kenvandine> set it back to needs fixing and comment
<zbenjamin> lool: hi, apps don't start with th 15.04 fw
<seb128> jgdx, yeah, I'm busy this week and travelling next, but you could keep the branch and mp a commit adding tests on top of that one
<jgdx> seb128, and miss the window? why
<seb128> what window?
<jgdx> vivid
<seb128> I don't understand how rejecting it makes a difference
<seb128> do you want to reproduce another one with code change + a tesT?
<jgdx> seb128, then it's not depending on you having time for it
<seb128> well, it's not
<seb128> as said you could have branched my vcs, added a test on top and proposed another mp adding the test stacked on mine
<seb128> without rejecting
<seb128> nor delaying
<lool> zbenjamin: could you run them by hand on the device and see what's going on?
<lool> zbenjamin: .cache/upstart might be where the logs are
<jgdx> seb128, I'm fine either way, but this was the only way forward if you were on a train or at a conference
<seb128> jgdx, anyway, not worth the discussion, sorry, the logic just seems weird to me
<seb128> jgdx, I'm unsure to understand why, that one is already approved
<jgdx> seb128, then qa rejected it
<seb128> jgdx, you stacking something else on top doesn't rely on me being here
<seb128> right, because it's incomplete/without test
<kenvandine> jgdx, the branch adding the test could just prereq on seb128's branch
<jgdx> â¦ yes
<seb128> what kenvandine says
<seb128> anyway, it's a detail
<jgdx> two commits that should be one?
<seb128> sorry for the noise ;-)
<seb128> why should they be one?
<seb128> I wouldn't be shocked by those being 2 commits
<jgdx> because they are :) It's a fix and then a test for said fix
<seb128> k, fair enough
<zbenjamin> lool: hmm what is the correct policy version for 15.04 fw?
<lool> zbenjamin: I thought 1.2
<zbenjamin> lool: ok then that is not the problem
<lool> zbenjamin: so what do the log say?
<zbenjamin> lool:  wait the aa policy might still be wrong. When i change it to 1.3 it starts to work. However what confused me was that  changing it back to 1.2 won't make it break again without rebooting the phone
<zbenjamin> lool: is it possible that this value is cached somewhere?
<jgdx> seb128, I'm compulsive, sorry about the noise!
<seb128> jgdx, no worry, thanks for fixing it/writing the test
<jgdx> seb128, do you have time to write the manual tests?
<seb128> jgdx, I guess I can do that
<studio_> hi
<jgdx> seb128, here's your branch, which I stole, with tests :D https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/ubuntu-system-settings/security-focus-correct-entry/+merge/256345
<jgdx> dat sweet launchpad karma
<seb128> jgdx, that test would fail on a device which is currently using swipe to unlock no?
<seb128> no change password button in that case?
<jgdx> seb128, I debated that, but when is that the case?
<jgdx> seb128, I have code for that. Give me a sec.
<seb128> jgdx, dunno, dev desktop with autologin?
<seb128> jgdx, I'm unsure if it's a case happening atm in practice, but it could mean a flacky test and we have enough issues with those
<jgdx> seb128, I tested that case, it won't say it's swipe
<seb128> right
<seb128> theorical issue then, but could be practical one day
<seb128> like dev on your tablet
<jgdx> seb128, yeah, agreed
<seb128> which you configured to swipe unlock
<studio_> who can help? i was able to build cifs- nfs- nfsd- and some other .ko for the bq e4.5. after i flashed the new kernel and loaded all modules, in the right order, dmesg showed me a lot errors with symbolic links. and after a reboot, i was hanging in a boot-loop. boot-loop is fixed for now. but cifs, nfs and nfsd are still not working :(
<jgdx> seb128, have you been able to get a shell without setting a pass?
<jgdx> I guess I could run autopilot tests from the terminal on the phone :p
<seb128> jgdx, you can't adb with slide to unlock, but yeah you could run them locally from the device
<seb128> jgdx, om26er, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Process/Merges/TestPlan/ubuntu-system-settings?action=diff&rev2=77&rev1=76
<seb128> was there other changes that needed to be listed in there?
<studio_> is someone from bq here?
<jgdx> seb128, I'm not able to run it locally, autopilot3-sandbox-run does not use xvfb
<jgdx> and when the terminal is paused it stops the test
<seb128> jgdx, I guess you could ssh to the device while it's in swipe to unlock
<jgdx> seb128, you gotta love the ubuntu phone
<seb128> jgdx, :-)
<jgdx> seb128, so the test always sees passphrase. I'm not sure what's going on.
<popey> studio_: wassup?
<seb128> jgdx, weird...
<jgdx> seb128, indeed, but I'll add a case for it either way
<seb128> jgdx, thanks
<mcphail> Is anyone from the calculator app team here?
<studio_> popey, i need a patch/diff for the E4.5 kernel my work to build just *.ko was not working.
<studio_> i was able to build *.ko and load them, but dmesg do not like my work ...
<popey> mcphail: rpadovani is
<om26er> seb128, thats good, thanks
<popey> mcphail: what's up?
<seb128> om26er, thanks
<rpadovani> mcphail, o/
<popey> studio_: bq don't build the kernel, we do.
<studio_> ?
<studio_> i am confused ...
<studio_> who made the git?
<mcphail> popey: rpadovani: just a wee usability bug. In portrait mode on the bq phone, the lower row of buttons are difficult to click because the UI registers a click on hte bottom drag-bar instead
<popey> mcphail: can you file a bug please?
<mcphail> popey: yep
<rpadovani> mcphail, that's indeed true. But I don't know how much we can do, we should work with bottom edge developer
<studio_> popey, i was able to build all these modules and load them: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10827715/ but they are not working :(
<studio_> symbolic links are wrong
<dobey> studio_: i guess you didn't build them correctly then, or something else is missing in your build
<studio_> "or something else is missing in your build" yes, but what?
<popey> welcome to "building kernels for beginners" :)
<studio_> :)
<popey> mcphail: does this happen both ways round? i.e. left rotate and right rotate?
<brunch875> popey: yes, it's the same problem sideways
<mcphail> popey: seems to be less of a problem in landscape mode but can still happen
<mcphail> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calculator-app/+bug/1444564
<studio_> popey, how to patch these mt-things in "~/aquaris-E4.5/mediatek/config/mt6582/autoconfig/kconfig/platform"?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1444564 in Ubuntu Calculator App "Calculator - Bottom row buttons difficult to select in portrait mode" [Undecided,New]
<popey> thanks mcphail
<mcphail> np
<popey> studio_: no idea, I haven't compiled a kernel for 10 years
<studio_> so who can help?
<studio_> popey, "studio_: bq don't build the kernel, we do." who is "we"?
<beuno> studio_, Canonical
<studio_> Canonical made the git?
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> bq provides the git tree
<studio_> no?
<dobey> bq owns the repo
<ogra_> canonical uses that same tree *inside* and android tree when we build the container tarball
<dobey> ubuntu (canonical) compiles the kernel that is shipped in the device image, from source
<ogra_> we never build akernel standalone ... like you do from that git repo
<brunch875> mcphail, popey: I believe the issue itself is that the favourite drag isn't set to the bottom swipe gesture rather than being associated to where the 'favourite' tab is.
<brunch875> On landscape mode it's nearly impossible to pull out the favourite tab; swiping will change between applications. Swiping from bottom (which should be the proper behaviour) does nothing when on landscape mode.
<dobey> studio_: did you not use 'make menuconfig' to re-configure the kernel and enable the modules you wanted?
<ogra_> so nobody in canlonical has muc experience with that git repo
<ogra_> (except for john-mcaleely, who did a test build with the defaults to verify it works)
<studio_> dobey, i am talking about https://github.com/bq/aquaris-E4.5/tree/aquaris-E4.5-ubuntu-master
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, it is the same build, so there's not huge difference
<john-mcaleely> and that repo emits the boot.img
<john-mcaleely> one day, I plan to switch to it as upstream (so I built it with that in mind)
<studio_> make menuconfig is not working with that build-system, only in /kernel, but after changing i can't build a new kernel.
<dobey> studio_: no, you're complaining that your new modules arne't working
<mcphail> brunch875: i see what you mean. Hadn't tried to expand the favourites bar before :)
<john-mcaleely> the MTK build system is quite complex, and I, for one, don't understand it well :-)
<ogra_> john-mcaleely, right, i just mean that most of us either build kernels the ubuntu way from a package or kernel.ubuntu.com git tree or inside an android build ... nobody actually uses the bq git tree at canonical
<studio_> dobay, i expained that days before hot to buils *.ko
<studio_> build
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, your statement is true, but the 'in andriod build step'  the the one I document in that repo
<ogra_> right
<john-mcaleely> (is) is missin there
<studio_> you need to modify the "project"
<dobey> studio_: if all you did was add a few CONFIG_ directives to the existing config file, you are almost certainly missing some things that using menuconfig would have also enabled if you'd chosen to build those modules via it
<studio_> i gave up ... :(
<ogra_> dobey, the prob is that make menuconfig doesnt work in that tree
<dobey> ogra_: well no, but it works in an upstream kernel tree
<ogra_> so he will never be able to get the dependencies in the config right
<dobey> ogra_: so grab an upstream 3.4 kernel tree, make menuconfig in it, and examine what CONFIG_ options are required for the modules in question, and ensure you've added them all to the config for the bq kernel, then build it
<ogra_> right, that would work
<ogra_> but is quite some effort :)
<dobey> well, it's certainly not any more effort than asking people who don't work on the kernel, what config options are required, and never getting an answer you want
<dobey> rather, it seems the obvious solution to me :)
<dobey> it's unfortunate that menuconfig doens't work and the build system for the bq kernel is so complex and confusing, but there's not really anything we can do about that in this channel
<jgdx> seb128, wanna take another look? https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/ubuntu-system-settings/security-focus-correct-entry/+merge/256345
<jgdx> seb128, that test will shrink once the security test suite implements the page object pattern. But that's not right now.
<seb128> jgdx, k
<cotton> hi everyone :)
<popey> hello
<brunch875> hihi!
<cotton> Will ubuntu touch update fast? Wil i see great improvements on my bq soon? Thanks for reading me
<brunch875> from what I know the update is coming today (:
<Se7> really brunch875 ?
<brunch875> source: mailing lists
<cotton> brunch875 Oooh really? :D
<cotton> Thanks for answering me
<Se7> no update yet :(
<dobey> i think 'fast' depends somewhat on your internet connection and what version you're currently on. full images instead of deltas, take a bit longer to install
<brunch875> landing email: "Another good news is that we pushed our OTA-3 release candidate to the RC channel today. This still needs some testing both on our and BQ side, but at least krillin #270 passed our QA team's regression testing - which is good. The planned ETA for the OTA-3 official release is this week's Wednesday."
<dobey> and download
<dobey> and it's mostly just bug fixes, no grand new features in it :)
 * Se7 waiting fot update
<jgdx> seb128, no approve?
<seb128> jgdx, I was waiting for the CI results
<jgdx> ack
<jgdx> seb128, could you kick off a silo build if ci passes?
<jgdx> I'm not back until later tonight
<sil2100> brunch875, Se7: remember that this is an ETA, so there might be some delays here and there especially that it's now in BQ's hands ;)
<sil2100> If their testing takes a bit longer than usually, well, the OTA might need to wait till tomorrow
<Se7> tnx sil2100 no probs
<sil2100> OTA-3 mostly has stability fixes though, OTA-4 will be a bigger update as we will be basically switching to vivid with all its goodies
<lool> zbenjamin: it should be 1.3; could you try again now?
<lool> zbenjamin: I think it's pulled by SDK from the store, it should be 1.3 everywhere now
<bzoltan> zbenjamin:  where is it stored in the store?
<bzoltan> lool:  ^
<brunch875> sil2100: Was counting on that! Thanks for the info, though; it confirms my thoughts.
<lool> bzoltan: with the list of frameworks
<bzoltan> lool: here? https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/api/click-framework/
<brunch875> It seems like we'll get the update tomorrow :| BQ has probably turned off the lights for today, it's past 8
<studio_> ups, "ubuntu-touch/rc/ubuntu-developer" is looking nice! thanks for making this!
<studio_> is ubuntu ui toolkit the desktop-manager?
<studio_> hmm, it is still not supporting import contacts from the sim card ... why?
<dobey> studio_: you still aren't running vivid i guess
<dobey> the toolkit is the toolkit (ie, a bunch of qml widgets)
<studio_> dobey, i was on vivid, but the "new one" got "nice tools"
<dobey> i don't know what that means
<studio_> ubuntu ui toolkit
<dobey> afaik, sim contact support landed in vivid a while ago
<dobey> i know what the toolkit is. i don't know what you mean by "new one" or "nice tools" though
<studio_> i haven't seen "ubuntu ui toolkit" on vivid
<studio_> nor here
<dobey> sure you have. all the apps are written using that toolkit
<studio_> sorry, that app is new to me
<dobey> it isn't an app
<dobey> the toolkit is the toolkit
<studio_> sure
<dobey> *sigh*
<studio_> it is an app
<dobey> no
<studio_> it is listed under apps
<studio_> if it is "now" listed now under apps it is not an app?
<studio_> dobey, maybe i was blind, but i have never seen that icon before ...
<studio_> dobey, are we talkig about the same thing?
<dobey> i have no idea what you are talking about
<dobey> studio_: you mean "Ubuntu UI Toolkit Gallery" app?
<studio_> an app, shown on apps, called "ubuntu ui toolkit". do you have taht on your device?
<dobey> no
<studio_> aha!
<dobey> there is an "Ubuntu UI Toolkit Gallery" in the store though
<studio_> no
<studio_> i mean "ubuntu ui toolkit".
<zsombi_> studio_: may I ask you what are you precisely looking for? An application?
<zsombi_> studio_: ubuntu ui toolkit itself is a set of QML components, nothing else
<dobey> studio_: take a screenshot?
<studio_> dobey, damnit, you was right! it called Ubuntu UI Toolkit Gallery, SORRY, my fault
<studio_> but it was new to me
<zsombi_> studio_: the app store has a "Ubuntu UI Toolkit Gallery" application which shows the widgets from the toolkit
<dobey> so i guess it is installed by default on that channel for some reason
<zsombi_> ok, so we're good then :)
<dobey> of course i was right. you shouldn't doubt me :)
<zsombi_> I never do :D
<davmor2> dobey: I doubt you all the time :P
<zsombi_> davmor2: shame on you :P
<dobey> heh
<zsombi_> noone should doubt dobey ;)
<dobey> :)
<dobey> now, where in this code was i
<davmor2> zsombi_: I have to test his code, if I trusted him I wouldn't test it nearly as well, so I hate you all and attack your code with vengeful wrath to prove it :D  I'm then nice to you when I hand you the bugs reports ;)
<davmor2> dobey: right about where the cursor is
<zsombi_> LOL
<dobey> davmor2: right, but which emacs buffer :P
<zbenjamin> lool: yep the problem was that it was using 1.2 instead of 1.3. Sadly there is currently no API that tells us what the right fw<->policy mapping is
<zbenjamin> lool: the store just returns the list of available frameworks, could we introduce a field there that specifies the required policy?
<davmor2> dobey: that one there :D
<ulrichard> How can I install git on my new aquaris? This is what I get: $sudo apt-get install git   -> E: Package 'git' has no installation candidate
<beuno> ulrichard, git is git-core, right?
<ulrichard> beuno:  E: Package 'git-core' has no installation candidate
<beuno> oh, it is git
<ulrichard> beuno: I guess adding apt sources from the regular ubuntu repository is not such a good idea?
<beuno> not sure then
<ulrichard> I get the same for   tig, nmap, htop    .... seems to be a really incomplete repo.
<beuno> ulrichard, did you apt-get update?
<beuno> did you enable developer mode?
<beuno> it doesnt have a special repo
<ogra_> rtm only has whats needed to roll the image
<ulrichard> beuno: yes I did update, but not dist-upgrade yet. But that souldn't matter here.
<ogra_> beuno, well, it is a complete derivative distro :)
<beuno> orly?
<ulrichard> yes, developer mode is enabled, and root remounted as rw
<mindspin2015> anybody in the mood to give a app-writing noob some hints?
<ulrichard> ogra_ : What is the worst that could happen if I add apt sources from the regular repo?
<ogra_> ulrichard, you have to re-flash :) but you will have to do that anyway at some point if you enable rw and use apt
<ulrichard> ogra_ : So, would it be better to have a separate chroot with all the tools I need on the shell?
<ogra_> ulrichard, yeah ...
<ogra_> ulrichard, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/daily-preinstalled/current/vivid-preinstalled-core-armhf.tar.gz ...
<ogra_> untar that in /home/phablet and you got a proper basic 15.04 chroot to start from
<ulrichard> ogra_ : ok thanks. I had something similar on my android. And I hoped I wouldn't have to do it that way on an ubuntu phone. Thanks anyway.
<ogra_> ulrichard, well, the system is not realy designed for apt upgrades, they break at some point due to the underlying system design .. you can make the system writable and use debs, but only in a rather limited fashion ...
<ogra_> and you risk that OTA upgrades break with makin the system rw
<ogra_> the support for aptis more for 1) testing packages before they land on a device you re-flash regulary 2) developing system components on the plumbing layer
<ulrichard> ogra_ : Is there a way to e.g.  introduce udev rules without making the / rw ?
<ogra_> nope
<ogra_> and an OTA would revert your changes if you make them to any existing file
<ogra_> you can indeed add new files and only make the system temporary rw
<ogra_> i.e. to add/change them
<ulrichard> ogra_ : Somewhere I read that once you switch to developer mode, you 'd go with dist-upgrades instead of OTA.
<ogra_> no, dist-upgrades break
<ogra_> the writability of the system is handled via a bind-mount farm into a writable partition ...
<dobey> create a chroot and install any packages you actually need to use on the phone for some reason, inside it
<ogra_> ... dpkg uses hard links when it replaces files on disk
<ogra_> ... hard links do not work across partition boundaries
<ogra_> so the packages are uninstalleble
<dobey> mindspin2015: #ubuntu-app-devel might be the best place for that :)
<ulrichard> ogra_ : Ok, not what I was hoping for, but at least I have the infos now.
<mindspin2015> dobey Its very silent there ;-)
<ogra_> ulrichard, if it is just stuff like htop i wouldnt even bothe with a chroot, but grab the binary deb from the utopic archive, pull the binary out and dump it to ~/bin/
<dobey> mindspin2015: scrollback shows plenty of activity. just ask your question though. don't ask to ask. "can someone help me?" doesn't tell anyone else anything :)
<dobey> ogra_: i still don't get why one would really want to install git and such on a phone, unless they were creating a build farm of phones or something :)
<ulrichard> ogra_ : next thing would be python ...
<robcecwet> where is the right place to report bugs for the YouTube webapp?
<ogra_> dobey, because they can ;)
<dobey> well, it's not in the archive, so not really ;)
<ogra_> well, th archive is a derivative of utopic
<dobey> i can go grab chrome and unpack it in ~/ too, but doesn't make it sensible
<dobey> sure
<ogra_> debs from ther will just work
<dobey> robcecwet: whatever the "Support link" is in the app preview
<ogra_> ulrichard, well, for that i would then go back to the chroot :)
<ogra_> or use pypy or some such
<dobey> well, python is on the phone, but may not have the modules you need
<ogra_> right
<dobey> but you can create a virtualenv or something in ~ easily enough for python
<ogra_> the interpreter is there
<dobey> as long as you don't need any C/C++ modules to be compiled anyway
<ulrichard> ogra_ : I'll go with the chroot. Then I can just install whatever I need and don't have to find another solution for every tool I need.
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> ulrichard, do you actually plan to do development on the bq ?
<ulrichard> ogra_ : Usually I just want to have a full blown shell with all the tools I need at my disposal.  On my old phone I actually compiled parts of our CAD (c++) in the chroot, just to see how it performed.
 * ogra_ does that too, but only within the boundaries of the app framework .. which essentially means only QML ... 
<ogra_> i.e. i dont compile on the phone ...
<ogra_> and in the end the laptop you use to ssh in or use adb from, is more powerful than the phone itself ... even if you use a qemu-arm-chroot
<ulrichard> ogra_ : And I maintain my home dir in a git repository...
<ulrichard> But the notebook doesn't fit into my pocket. .-)
<ogra_> ah, then i understand the desire for git :)
<ogra_> well ... do you really do any serious stuff on a 4.5" touchscreen keyboard ?
<dobey> i wouldn't mix the home directory on the phone with the one on my workstation
<ulrichard> I was pleasantly surprised that the tools required to use OpenPGP smartcard ssh auth are already installed.
 * ogra_ would have loved to drop all the adb stuff and do ssh only :) 
<ogra_> but phone factories are set up for adb ... so we had to keep it
<ulrichard> ogra_ : I mean I plug my YubiKey into the phone and ssh into the server using the gpg key in the smartcard.
<dobey> ogra_: that would indeed be nice
<ogra_> dobey, i had the code ready for that ... when you plugged in USB it did set up an usb-net connection and fired up ssh ... but sadly we had to re-consider
<ulrichard> Ah, something else, are external keyboards generally not working?
<dobey> ogra_: awesome. maybe we can get it in for W :)
<ogra_> ulrichard, some BT keyboards are working .... but all BT focus was on audio for the initial release so there are only barely supported atm
<dobey> ulrichard: usb otg is generally not supported. some things may work. some bt keyboards may work as well, but it can be hit & miss with those (i've had hit & miss with them on actual PCs and such too)
<ogra_> *they are
<ogra_> after all it is a phone, not a PC ...
<ogra_> but a full yhackabble phone ;)
<BOHverkill> what is the bast way to migrate contacts to the bq (w/ sync)?
<ogra_> BOHverkill, the easiest way is for sure to import them into google and have the phone sync them from there ...
<BOHverkill> and with out google?
<ogra_> you can import vcf files iirc
<BOHverkill> how?
<ogra_> the backend is syncevolution, all methods it supports for importing should work
<ogra_> (from commandline though)
<dobey> there is no UI for importing vcf files
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> the only UI import is google currentlly
<BOHverkill> who needs an ui ;)
<dobey> you can also import a vcf into evolution on ubuntu, and then just replace the contacts.db on the phone (which is what i did way back when)
<ogra_> there was a thread on the ML about vcf importing
<ulrichard> ogra_ : What do you thing about this: http://notyetthere.org/syncing-ubuntu-touch-with-owncloud-or-any-carddav-server/
<BOHverkill> ogra_: ML?
<ogra_> ulrichard, well, i usuall ytrsut mzanetti and his coding/hacking skills :)
<dobey> someone was working on an owncloud app
<ogra_> BOHverkill, mailing list
<dobey> but i don't know if it's gotten anywhere
<BOHverkill> oh
<mzanetti> thanks ogra_ :)
<ogra_> :)
<BOHverkill> dobey: where is the contacts.db?
<ogra_> ulrichard, there is also  http://mitchellreese.id.au/owncloud-sync-on-ubuntu-touch/ ... that hit the mailing list today
<ogra_> BOHverkill, https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg12058.html
<dobey> BOHverkill: ~/.local/share/evolution/adddressbook/system/contacts.db is the default on the phone
<BOHverkill> thx
<ulrichard> ogra_ : Thanks for the link. I'll have a closer look tomorrow. Too tired now.
<ogra_> enjoy the phone :)
<dobey> BOHverkill: i imported into a new addressbook in evolution, so it was a different directory with a bunch of numbers and my computer's hostname, instead of "system"
<BOHverkill> k
<BOHverkill> i will try it tomorrow
<ulrichard> I just tried three different BT Keyboards (2x logitech 1x adafruit). How are the chances one of them is going to work with the next upgrade?
<ogra_> i dont think we did change much in the bluetooth area for this one ... but the next OTA will switch to vivid
<ogra_> there the situation should be better
<ogra_> so another 4-6 weeks
<ogra_> (the current OTA will be released this week (hopefully))
<ulrichard> Ok, I'll try again then.
<ogra_> ulrichard, i know that mzanetti worked with some BT keyboards ... but i think onlly on the nexus devices ... probably he ca give you a pointer to working ones
<ulrichard> ogra_ : It's not that important that I would buy another keyboard. But it would be nice to have one day.
 * ogra_ wonders if his keyboard missing keys is a good excuse for a new XPS13 :P
<dobey> ogra_: 3200x1800 is a good enough excuse for a new one :)
<ogra_> ulrichard, well, effectively we work towards the "your phone becomes a desktop" vision ... so the BT kbd support will definitely get better over time
<ogra_> dobey, ha !
<ulrichard> ogra_ : Yeah I also want a new XPS13, but I wait until I can pay with BitCoin in Switzerland.
<ogra_> because the franken is to valuable ?
<cwayne> ogra_, I just ordered one :P
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> i'm still pondering ...
<BOHverkill> are there changelogs for the OTAs?
<dobey> i almost ordered one today
<ogra_> my old one is theoretically still good
<dobey> but it wouldn't be here before my sprint :-/
<ogra_> BOHverkill, i think sil2100 is assembling one
<BOHverkill> k
<ogra_> or at least something that comes close to a changelog
<BOHverkill> ;)
<dobey> my old one is definitely still good. i barely use it, and i just re-installed it last week even
<sil2100> BOHverkill, ogra_: yeah, we have something similar but well, less detailed... we'll have something better soon though
<ogra_> i use mine every day (like now) ... its my living room computer at home
<cwayne> dobey, mine won't be here in time either :(  and I actually *need* one
<BOHverkill> sil2100: k i love changelogs ;)
<ogra_> for traveling i'd certainly like some more battery ...
<cwayne> my current xps does this fun thing where it won't charge :(
<cwayne> so it only works while plugged now
<dobey> oh fun :(
<ogra_> cwayne, in time for the sprint ?
<ulrichard> My old XPS13 was stolen last month. I loved it. Now I'm on an X60.
<sil2100> Currently what I'm doing is generating a commitlog of all changes that happened in the OTA - it has info what packages changed and what landings happened, so it has some descriptions of changes
<dobey> cwayne: btw, do you use rtm-proposed on your phone, or what?
<ogra_> dobey, you dont ?
<sil2100> Soon it will also include changelog information for each upload, so it'll be more verbose for people that are interested in the details
<cwayne> dobey, on the n5 yea
<dobey> ogra_: i do, but i'm having a problem with untappd :)
<ogra_> ah
<cwayne> dobey, even with the latest update in the store?
<cwayne> 1.0.9 i think
<dobey> cwayne: different problem now. i was able to log on. but when i tried to attach a photo to the check-in using the camera, it would just crash and i'd lose the photo. if i took a picture and then tried to attach from the gallery, it would reload the page for the beer as soon as i selected the picture
<dobey> cwayne: so wondering if you are seeing the same thing
<dobey> though sergiusens seems to not have a problem attaching pictures. they just don't have a brasilian beach in the background this week
<cwayne> dobey, oh, i just check in from the scope, haven't tried from the webapp
<dobey> oh i forgot you added that to the scope. but you can't attach pictures with that can you? i just always use the app. i'm not really big on scopes myself
<cwayne> nah you cant attach pics, but i never did anyway
<dobey> ah. i usually don't either. somtimes the promotional glasses are worth it though
<dobey> never had a problem before. maybe it's kenvandine's fault
<leonmortiba> hello @ all
<leonmortiba> i installed ubuntu touch on my nexus 5
<leonmortiba> this is a great system
<leonmortiba> but
<leonmortiba> i missing a jabber client with otr (like conversations on android), a voip client (like linphone with ostn support), tor, and a e-mail client with pgp
<leonmortiba> i missed caldav and carddav support. at home i have a baikal server
<ogra_> i fear you have to learn app development or wait then ...
<ogra_> caldav/carddav syncing might work via commandline ... the backend is just evolution-data-server ...
<dobey> xmpp will probably come in the messaging app when the UI design for it gets updated to be suitable for things like IM. telepathy is already used as the backend for the SMS support (via telepathy-ofono), so the basics are pretty much there. just needs proper UI, integration, and confinement support
<dobey> and i'm sure DanChapman wouldn't mind more help with dekko to get gpg/pkcs working well there
<ogra_> yeah ...
<k1l> wasnt there "some place" where the most wanted apps were written down?
<ogra_> we call that store :)
<dobey> somebody made a google spreadsheet for that
<k1l> maybe that spreadsheet should get somewhat promoted to get more appmakers on that?
<ogra_> mhall119, ^^
<dobey> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tBafX2PovPFeEF2cxSQsBM1kvUAfIZ-PddecF4HircU/edit#gid=0
<dobey> but that seems more like mostly system feature requests
<k1l> i saw something that named popular android apps etc. and suggested them to be ported
<AskUbuntu> Cannot allocate memory when trying to create instance of ubuntu-emulator | http://askubuntu.com/q/609775
<ogra_> i think sturmflut-work did a blogpost with a list once
<Dragonkeeper> gps looks like its kind of working now , but its so inaccurate
<leonmortiba> i think ubuntu touch is a good base for a secure mobilephone
<ogra_> leonmortiba, we think so too :)
<leonmortiba> ogra_: i only use jabber with otr at android
<Dragonkeeper> @heres ya jabber , you can jab people with that@
<ogra_> well, like dobey said above, XMPP support might come to the messaging app
<ogra_> so you can use jabber right from there
<leonmortiba> but without otr
<dobey> there is otr support for telepathy
<dobey> so it could probably be implemented there sa well
<k1l> https://sturmflut.github.io/ubuntu/touch/2015/02/15/ubuntu-touch-app-wishlist/
<Dragonkeeper> ogra_: id like to see a SDR app xD
<k1l> that was it, yes
<ogra_> Dragonkeeper, write it then :)
<Dragonkeeper> it
<dobey> there are so many things that aren't even on that list
<dobey> anyway, i am really gone now
<k1l> a promoted list could attract some developers and motivate to do some work. but on the other hand it could be used to show what is still lacking :/
<Dragonkeeper> how do i get bq phone to use ubuntu 15 ?
<lool> beuno: 21:00 < zbenjamin> lool: the store just returns the list of available frameworks, could we introduce a field there that specifies the required policy?
<lool> beuno: would you think the person who developed the framework API for the store could expose the policy version too?
<beuno> lool, sure can, in exchange for a bug against lp:software-center-agent
<lool> beuno: thanks
<lool> zbenjamin: mind filing this as a request in lp:software-center-agent? I could file it, but then you wouldn't get notified when it closes
<mhall119> ogra_: I have no idea what spreadsheet that might be
<Dragonkeeper> what video formats does  UT support >?
#ubuntu-touch 2015-04-16
<AskUbuntu> BQ E 4.5 ubuntu edition doesn't show any images from the scopes nor the app icons | http://askubuntu.com/q/609800
<veryrandomnick> is there any reason not to update a phone? for example if I want to run a custom rom on it
<AskUbuntu> Download or install failed | http://askubuntu.com/q/609874
<zbenjamin> lool-: sure
<robin-hero> Hi all!  Is somebody can tell me where is ubuntu touch store the Messaging app's SMS messages? And if I am copying this db file to an other Ubuntu Touch device (or emulator) will it work?
<liuxg> does anyone use PositionSource QML API? I find that it does not give me the position info on Nexus 4.
<PhilippeP> Yeah another sunny day !
<zbenjamin> lool-: beuno: https://bugs.launchpad.net/software-center-agent/+bug/1444832
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1444832 in Software Center Agent "Include the AA-Policy in the list of frameworks returned by the store API" [Undecided,New]
<robin-hero> I found the SMS db, is it at .local/share/history-service/history.sql. :) Now the only question, If I am copying this file to an other device will it work? I can't test it now, maybe later
<mandel> ogra_, did you take a look at the debs I sent, I'd like to get some feedback. It does work better, but needs improvement.. :-/
<ogra_> mandel, just saw the mail, checking now
<ogra_> (well, or soon, my device is currently flashing)
<mandel> ogra_, awesome, I'm going to be on and off the entire day testing it outside, in case anyone is looking for me
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy High Five Day! :-D
 * brunch875 high fives JamesTait!
<JamesTait> brunch875, (ï½ã»_ã»)ãã½(ã»_ã»ï½)
<brunch875> ( â-â)äºº(ï¾_ï¾ )
<sheer> pls
<sheer> keep it G
<robin-hero> Any info about the OTA? If it will not relase today I'll be a sad panda :(
<brunch875> It's up to BQ now. Let's hope they don't delay...
<brunch875> Makes me want to hop on the devel channek
<robin-hero> brunch875: Yeah, me too
<Se7> morning
<robin-hero> morning
<brunch875> morning!
<Se7> :))
<Se7> no update yet brunch875
<Se7> :P
<brunch875> I should contact support: "Is update ready yet?" They'll think "How do they know!?"
<brunch875> haha
<Se7> lol
<ogra_> popey, i guess we will now monthly need the #ubuntu-release-party bot in here ...
<popey> hah
<popey> !isitoutyet
<ubot5> YES!!! IT'S OUT!!!
<popey> hah :)
<ogra_> lol
<brunch875> hahaha
<ogra_> liar !
<robin-hero> :D
<davmor2> no it's not lying 14.10 has been out for a while :P
<jgdx> abeato, do you have telephony issues on arale?
<abeato> jgdx, voice calls work fine for me
<jgdx> abeato, me too, but at some point I'm not receiving sms, calls, nor can I place calls or send sms.
<jgdx> and there's nothing user facing to indicate that anything has gone wrong
<abeato> jgdx, hmm... I've not seen that... are you registered to the network when that happens?
<jgdx> abeato, yes and 4G is indicated
<jgdx> data works in that state
<abeato> jgdx, ok, can you reproduce easily?
<abeato> it that is the case first thing would be to try the same with ofono scripts
<abeato> to start narrowing the problem
<abeato> dial-number for calls
<jgdx> abeato, right
<abeato> send-sms for SMS
<jgdx> okay, anything else? Maybe dump list modems?
<abeato> the use monitor-ofono to see incoming SMS/calls
<abeato> yes, that would be great
<abeato> jgdx, btw, rmescandon has hit this bug in vivid:
<abeato> 1444870
<abeato> bug #1444870
<ubot5> bug 1444870 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "bad value in gprs settings after populating with APN editor" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1444870
<jgdx> abeato, just saw
<abeato> there is a weird string appended to MessageProxy
<jgdx> that's the editor allright
<abeato> yes, that's what it looks like
<ogra_> mandel, looks good !
<ogra_> it is a little jumpy, after initially only showing a small dot on the point it now switched to a bigger circle about 1km north of me
<ogra_> (the initial dot was exactly on my house)
<mandel> ogra_, yes, I noticed that too, I'm looking into the client lib and the maps too see which positions we are getting and why it jumps like that
<mandel> ogra_, the here process sometimes fails too.. dealing with that
<ogra_> mandel, oh, note that i'm on arale currently :)
<mandel> ogra_, yes, I've tested all the devices I know off
<mandel> ogra_, back to go for a spin again to test it
<ogra_> my battery is at 7% ... once it charged a bit i'll go to the garden :)
<mandel> ogra_, sweet, I should have a silo soon with a few changes in
<mandel> ogra_, waiting on QA
<brunch875> Still no update from BQ. WHY YOOOOUUUU!!!
<mcphail> bq are masters of suspense
<ogra_> brunch875, better safe than sorry :) they simply do intensive testing :)
<mariogrip> seems like the kernel.ubuntu.com git web is down :(
<ogra_> mariogrip, did you ping #ubuntu-kernel about that yet ?
 * popey just pinged in #is
<ogra_> god
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> good
<brunch875> god errs good?
<ogra_> lol
 * mcphail already realised popey was omnipresent but that is a step too far
<davmor2> ogra_: make your mind up either God erred or he's good you can't have it both ways ;)
<mariogrip> :D
<ogra_> popey, ouch ... did you hear you shouldnt upgrade N7 to lollipop ?
<brunch875> Â¿Because it breaks the N7 or because it breaks ubuntu touch?
<ogra_> it breaks the N7
<brunch875> yikes!
 * ogra_ read some articles about it 
<ogra_> 5.0 that is ...
<brunch875> soft brick I suspect though
<ogra_> not sure
<brunch875> so if you're a hacker it doesn't matter :D
<davmor2> ogra_: how it's fine on wifies n7
<juzzlin_> my 2012 N7 is working fine with 5.0.1
<juzzlin_> it's slow and crap, but still
<mariogrip> i got a sms from ups saying that i will get a package today, i wonder what that can be :D #bq-ubuntu-phone
<davmor2> ogra_: onlt thing I have to do was go into recovery and wipe the cache then it worked fine
<davmor2> mariogrip: a box
<mariogrip> davmor2: xP
<davmor2> mariogrip: sometimes a box and a plastic bag
<ogra_> http://9to5google.com/2015/04/10/nexus-5-nexus-7-bricked-android-lollipop/
<ogra_> http://androidcommunity.com/lollipop-not-good-for-nexus-5-and-nexus-7-units-being-bricked-20150413/
<ogra_> etc etc ...
<ogra_> doesnt seem to happen to all of them
<mcphail> people run _android_ on nexus devices? sheesh - don't they know UT exists?
<popey> ogra_: nice. might roll back then
<popey> mine isn't bricked
<popey> its been on 5 for months
<popey> it just wont OTA
<davmor2> ogra_: wifies had issues on n5 and n7.  The battery drain was chronic apps weren't opening etc looked it up and said to wipe the cache from recovery.  I that and they've had no issues since, so happy wifie :)
<ogra_> :)
<cwayne> davmor2, same thing here for n5
<cwayne> had to roll back fiancee to kitkat
<cwayne> that's a funny sentence
<ogra_> that is what you get for not using Ubuntu :)
<cwayne> ogra_, i got her whole family's desktops on it, so there's progress :)
<ogra_> well, phones next then :)
<popey> back to 4.4.4 I go
<davmor2> ogra_: for wifie you would have to have all the stupid games she plays available :)
<ogra_> no, you would have to write clones :)
<davmor2> ogra_: trust me you don't want me writing code ;)
<mariogrip> look what i got! https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/sdOQcALz/IMG_20150416_143940.jpg
<PhilippeP> a cat and a box .... hmmm
<cwayne> mariogrip, nice!
<davmor2> PhilippeP: now you know why they call mariogrip Schroedinger
<davmor2> mariogrip: congrats
<mariogrip> :D
<popey> wow, what a fabulous looking cat!
 * ogra_ wonders why he gets "server not found" ...
<mariogrip> popey: :)
<robin-hero> No OTA update still... Why bq testing the device this long? :)
<mcphail> My "updates" spinny just keeps spinning
<davmor2> popey: apparently you should have one too, did you not see one in your bq box, I'd want a refund if I was you ;)
<popey> heh
<davmor2> robin-hero: our QA team have a 60 hour regression plan, it only covers the bare minimum of test that is a week and half of one persons work life.  We are adding tests to it daily,  Their suite is probably much bigger than that as they have been testing phones longer
<davmor2> robin-hero: also their final concern is that their customers have a great experience with their products so want to be sure it works well.  You should be happy it's taking so long to ensure you get a good image :)
<mariogrip> popey: FYI, http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git is has a 503 error :(
<mariogrip> still has*
<robin-hero> davmor2: Yes, I know, But I'm waiting it for weeks :)
<popey> mariogrip: yeah, I asked IS.
<mariogrip> popey: okay
<popey> mariogrip: they're aware of it.
<popey> np
<Se7> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/04/16/phone-updates-april/?utm_source=ubunteu&utm_medium=url_shortner&utm_term=Alss9r&utm_campaign=shortner
<john-mcaleely> popey, is my understanding of this bug
<john-mcaleely> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bug/1423185
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1423185 in Ubuntu Calendar App "Calendar app crash" [Critical,In progress]
<john-mcaleely> correct?
<john-mcaleely> (comment 8)
<popey> john-mcaleely: interesting, I haven't seen that bug for a while
<john-mcaleely> hmm
<popey> it was in progress until we realised it was a bug in eds
<popey> which renatu fixed
<popey> (note: there may be other bugs in eds) :)
<elopio> ping renatu: here is a little improvement to the autopilot inheritance:
<elopio> https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-platform-qa/address-book-app/fix_base_class/+merge/256243
<elopio> can you please give it a review?
<renatu> elopio, sure
<john-mcaleely> popey, so, i'd bet something has been fixed. but if I tapped in the past, it still crashed :-)
<john-mcaleely> (well, sometimes it hung. but almost the same thing)
<popey> I can't get that to fail here on my krillin
<popey> what are you _doing_!? :)
<john-mcaleely> choosing a 'any' date earlier than today in the year view
<john-mcaleely> I have OTA3 installed
<john-mcaleely> ie, I'm on the rc channel
<john-mcaleely> my phone is also freshly wiped, and has no accounts installed to sync
<john-mcaleely> so the calendar's basically empty
<popey> ah, interesting
<john-mcaleely> hmm. that might matter
<popey> i have accounts
<popey> and am also on OTA3
<popey> sounds like we need a new bug report with those details
<john-mcaleely> so, our oem qa team claim the bug is not fixed. haven't actually got their repro from them yet
<john-mcaleely> ok, I'll get that
<popey> ta
<popey> public
<john-mcaleely> yup
<Sander^work> Is there some alternative browsers I can use?
<john-mcaleely> popey, can you clarify the bug status wrt the calendar app?
<john-mcaleely> on the bug
<john-mcaleely> ie 'not an app bug'
<popey> ya
<ogra_> Sander^work, search the store, i think there is one alternative one ...
<brunch875> still no updates from BQ...
<ogra_> brunch875, soon :)
<ogra_> will happen today ...
<brunch875> :[[[[[[[[
<brunch875> are you sure? I'm not that sure
<brunch875> we need a bot to place bets :P
<ogra_> brunch875, yeah, promised :)
<kenvandine> ogra_ has spoken!
<ogra_> if sil2100 dosnt accidentially hit the wrong button or some such (because i just distract him with a ping) ...
<kenvandine> you can take that to the bank :)
<ogra_> lol
<davmor2> kenvandine: isn't that the line that pee'd of Steven Segal in Hard to kill?
<davmor2> ogra_: keep an eye out for an angry looking pony tail from america he'll mostly be in black :D
<ogra_> davmor2, i'll just hire dholbach with his bud spencer t-shirt ... that should easily cope with a steven segal :)
<davmor2> ogra_: hahahaha
<dholbach> ogra_, most people outside Central Europe don't know Bud Spencer :)
<ogra_> geez ! what an educational lack !
<davmor2> ogra_, dholbach: I know him I think, did he not work with Clint in a western early 70's  something Tyranny or Tyranny something
<matv1> hmm statcounter says linux desktop use has almost doubled over the last 4 months in the north american region. That is weird
<davmor2> looks a bit like indiana jones, Egyptian side kick in lost arc?
<ogra_> davmor2, he did tons of "beat'em up" movies with terence hill in the 70s ...
<matv1> as long as its off-topic day anyway :)
<ogra_> davmor2, he weights about 200kg ... all muscules indeed :)
<davmor2> ogra_: big beard too right
<ogra_> davmor2, it is the typical movies that boys watch between 7-10 years of age :)
<ogra_> yeah
<davmor2> ogra_: yeah see I knew him :)
<davmor2> ogra_: names I forget films I don't :)
<ogra_> heh
<sil2100> ogra_, brunch875: so BQ has finished testing and there's a general +1, we just need to check one thing to make sure we're not effected by bug LP: #1444347
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1444347 in Ubuntu system image "/usr/bin/aa-clickhook:ImportError:/usr/bin/aa-clickhook@14:/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/apparmor/click.py@15:/usr/lib/python3.4/ctypes/__init__.py@7" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1444347
<brunch875> whoo!
 * mcphail waits to see if brunch875's phone explodes before downloading
<brunch875> hah! That won't happen. I hid it safely in the oven.
<faenil> how are the modularScale values computed?
<faenil> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/vivid/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/vivid/view/head:/modules/Ubuntu/Components/plugin/ucfontutils.cpp
<faenil> where is 0.677 coming from?
<ogra_> faenil, probably more a question for #ubuntu-app-devel
<faenil> okay
<ogra_> (since it is toolkit stuff)
<faenil> sure, sorry
<mcphail> I'd be obliged if someon could remind me of the invocation to install a click package which has been wgetted on to the phone
<ogra_> pkcon install-local --allow-untrusted /path/to/.click
<mcphail> ogra_: ty
<brunch875> uh oh, my computer has something lose
<brunch875> loose*
<brunch875> whole desk is vibrating
<k1l> what? do you use a v8 in it? :)
<brunch875> oh well
<brunch875> the vibrations are somewhat soothing
<brunch875> I can get used to this
<ment0s> Hi
<brunch875> Hello!
<ment0s> oculd some one tell me on  what stage is galaxy s3 with ubuntu touch ? Last updated on official site says 2013 with a lot of issues but I don't seem to find any new releases or fixes. Any info on this ?
<mcphail> ment0s: as far as I can see, it has been abandoned :(
<brunch875> my vote goes to that as well
<mcphail> ment0s: even AOSP was dodgy on the S3
<mcphail> no drivers/acceleration
<ment0s> mcphail: right.
<ment0s> mcphail: cheers
<ment0s> Gonna try on nexus
 * mcphail hopes someone will revive the S3 effort
<ogra_> if you have the device, dont hold back !
<mcphail> ogra_: just now, the device is my only internet access during the week. If I lose that I'm back in the 1980s :)
<ogra_> order a bq then ... that will free up the S3 :)
<mcphail> ogra_: I have, but I can't use adb on the bq and rndis at the same time...
<ogra_> huh ?
<ogra_> you surely can
<mcphail> nope
<ogra_> rndis and mtp are mutually exclusive ...
<ogra_> rndis and adb work fine
<mcphail> don't here
<ogra_> does here
<mcphail> odd
<ogra_> (and there is no technical reason why it wouldnt work ... )
<ogra_> oh
<ogra_> perhaps there is one
<ogra_> try: adb kill server; sudo adb devices
<ogra_> and see if that changes something
<ogra_> might be that the udev rule for this combo isnt added
<ogra_> so adb would have no permissions for the normal user on the PC
<mcphail> ogra_: I don't have access to my PC just now as I'm out in the wilderness but, in the past, adb access has been lost when rndis is active and I've had to switch back via the terminal app
<mcphail> ogra_: i think it is a udev issue as the usb id changes
<mcphail> (iirc)
<ogra_> adb needs to re-initialize when the kernel changes the USB config ... so it will kick you out ...
<ogra_> but you should be able to get back in with the above ... even if the udev rule is wrong
<mcphail> ok - i'll try when I'm back in civilisation :)
<ogra_> cool, let me know how it goes ... if its just the udev rules we can easily fix it
<mcphail> yes - would be good if it works
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, o/ On my pc the tst_QmlTests does core dump on each branch, also on trunk. I've that output: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10833959/ other tests work. Any idea?
<oSoMoN> rpadovani, looks like xvfb doesnât like your graphics setup, try running the tests with the test command but without xvfb, i.e. in your case that would be /home/rpadovani/Documents/ubuntu/touch/system-apps/webbrowser-app/settings-page/tests/unittests/qml/tst_QmlTests -input /home/rpadovani/Documents/ubuntu/touch/system-apps/webbrowser-app/settings-page/tests/unittests/qml -import /home/rpadovani/Documents/ubuntu/touch/system-apps/
<oSoMoN> webbrowser-app/settings-page/src
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, I'll try, thanks
<BOHverkill> awesome everything necessary for me is working on my bq :D
<cwayne> BOHverkill, awesome!
<brunch875> YESSSSS
<brunch875> oh damn, it's not instant :(
<brunch875> I'm going to burn the 'check for updates' button
<brunch875> until I get my candy
<sil2100> brunch875: sorry about that, no worries - it'll take only a little while ;)
<brunch875> hahaha
<sil2100> ogra_: actually, I can't change the topic
<ogra_> oh ?
<ogra_> sil2100, are you registered with nickserv ?
<ogra_> perhaps you need to
<ogra_> woah
<ogra_> popey, since when do i need to be OP in an ubuntu channel to change the topic
<k1l> its set +t since some trolls used to change the topic in here
<popey> you shouldn't
<sil2100> I logged in now but still nothing
<popey> if its set right
<ogra_> can we revert that again ?
<ogra_> cool
<ogra_> sil2100, go ahead :)
* sil2100 changed the topic of #ubuntu-touch to: | Home: http://bit.ly/YEqEfo | Installing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install | Porting guide (advanced) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting | Bugs filing: http://bit.ly/1aV9AJG | Nexus Status: http://bit.ly/18kIrhM | Dashboard: http://bit.ly/12AQV53 | Changelog: http://bit.ly/1ljube1 | http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html | OTA-3 released, phased upgrades ongoing
<ogra_> \o/
<sil2100> hm, it's a loong topic
<ogra_> !ITISOUT !
<sil2100> ogra_, k1l, popey: thanks!
<popey> 21 iS ota-3?
<k1l> and no one will read topics anyway ;p
<brunch875> !isitoutyet
<ubot5> YES!!! IT'S OUT!!!
<popey> I thought it was 22
<sil2100> Remember, phased updates ongoing! Not all devices will see it yet
<popey> mine did :)
<sil2100> popey: it was #22 in rc, it's known as #21 on the stable one ;)
<sil2100> popey: lucky!
<brunch875> may the random() be with you
 * popey installs
<brunch875> oh, stdlib... why hart thou forsaken me?
<brunch875> popey has rigged it! I'm sure of it!
<popey> haha
<BOHverkill> the update is a lie ;)
<popey> http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-04-16-182659.png
<popey> not a lie :)
<brunch875> photoshop master, head of conspiracy!
<popey> hah
<BOHverkill> brunch875: yes ;)
<popey> ITYM GIMP
<popey> i like that I would have faked that, the timestamps and everything
<brunch875> "what do you mean, it's not possible? Aren't you good with computers?"
<BOHverkill> ;)
<davmor2> brunch875: no he is good with computers Art on the other hand popey completely sucks at
<popey> [FACT]
<BOHverkill> "Software is up to date" grrrrrrrrrr
<brunch875> Is anyone working on a telepathy-based chat for utouch?
<brunch875> that would be pretty sweet...
<dobey> brunch875: messaging-app is a telepathy-based chat
<dobey> it just only supports sms at the moment really
<brunch875> Nice!
<brunch875> Good design base
<brunch875> BOHverkill: I WIN! HAhahahah
<brunch875> I got the update
<BOHverkill> brunch875: Ã²_Ã³
<brunch875> damn, we've got to start races!
<brunch875> this is amusing
<brunch875> telegram notification sounds!
<robin-hero> brunch875: Ah, I have no updates... It's not fair :D
<brunch875> http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/R_1bb946_2166350.jpg
<sil2100> Phasing updates continue ;)
<robin-hero> sil2100: Yeah! Can we read somewhere how this phased update work?
<robin-hero> by the way still no update for me :(
<aquarius> How do I use the media hub from an app? Specifically, if I just create an Audio {} element and .play() it, is that using the media hub (and so the sound will continue to play even if my app is backgrounded or suspended or the screen is turned off)?
<EdwardMorbius> robin-hero I didnt get it either, everyone should get it within 24 hours.
<aquarius> this may be a jhodapp question, or possibly one for the SDK team
<sil2100> robin-hero: hey, sadly there's no full section on just phased updates anywhere, but the priciple is that updates are made available to people in iterations, with each iteration making the update available to a larger random audience
<sil2100> The steps are rather big and normally the phased transition time is much bigger, but we didn't want to make people wait too much
<sil2100> Besides, we have pretty much confidence in the image not breaking anyone badly
<robin-hero> sil2100: Thanks, It's okay, I would like to know the details. How many people involve in a phase, how many hours delayed between two phases and things like that :) Does a site or documentation exist about this?
<sil2100> robin-hero: it's percentage based, currently we're doing 6%-per-step with a step duration of 1 hour
<robin-hero> thanks :)
<sil2100> Right now we're at 18% so still some percentages to go ;)
<robin-hero> when did it start? :)
<EdwardMorbius> sil2100 when can 15.04 image be expected? few weeks, a month? I guess depending on how many bugs need squashing
<sil2100> robin-hero: hm, over 3 hours ago I suppose, the next step should be soon
<jhodapp> aquarius, yes, it's using media-hub by default
<sil2100> EdwardMorbius: our QA team will be re-doing the quality assessment soon, around tomorrow/Monday, so next week we should know more
<sil2100> It all really depends on how many things from the list are remaining
<aquarius> jhodapp, OK. Next question: can I use the media hub from an HTML5 app?
<sil2100> We'll only know it proper after we have test results, but I think it won't be as long as a month
<jhodapp> aquarius, not yet, that's coming
<EdwardMorbius> sil2100 thanks. I look forward to those sound notifications in telegram :)
<sil2100> We plan on doing monthly OTA's and so far the OTA-4 is planned to be 15.04 based ;)
<aquarius> jhodapp, ah, OK. I've tried giving Audio{} a data URI, and that didn't work; is it supposed to work? It'd be really nice if it were :)
<jhodapp> aquarius, experimental support is in Oxide already...there is a flag that you can turn on to utilize it for audio, but you'll want to talk to the Oxide guys for how to use it
<jhodapp> aquarius, a data URI?
<EdwardMorbius> sil2100 thats one of the big advantages over other mobile OSes for me, regular updates, not waiting for months for the manufacturer to release new version of firmware (if at all)
<aquarius> jhodapp, yeah. Instead of a normal URL which is an address of something (http://server/somefile.mp3 or file:///home/phablet/Music/somesong.mp3), a data URI is the data itself: it looks like data:audio/mp3;base64,gbBUGIUGyBIgIugIugIUgIGi(on and on for the length of the file)NUIBhoiOIOIhONHoiH
<aquarius> jhodapp, so it's basically the file serialised as one big long string
<aquarius> jhodapp, this is very useful for dynamically generated stuff, because I can't save data to a file from QML *or* HTML5
<jhodapp> aquarius, I've not experimented with that at all...if GStreamer supports it then we will as well because media-hub uses GStreamer
<jhodapp> aquarius, we may also be missing a plugin
<jhodapp> aquarius, it might also be that the data URI is getting scrubbed by QtMultimedia (including our own plugin) in between your app and media-hub
<sil2100> EdwardMorbius: glad to hear you like that, we're working for that purpose all the time trying our best to make it for our deadlines
<jhodapp> aquarius, I have to run for now, but hit me up some more later or drop me a message on Google+
<aquarius> jhodapp, yeah, hence me asking :) What I was considering was an app which can read an ebook with speech synthesis. I could shell out to festival (ugh!) or there's a pure JS implementation of espeak, which works fine in Oxide (although not in QML's annoyingly noddy JS environment). But what that gives me is a data stream, which I can't then pass to Audio{}.
<aquarius> jhodapp, no worries. Sounds like the platform isn't ready for me to do this yet anyway :)
<BOHverkill> still no update :(
<aquarius> BOHverkill, it's coming out over the next day, apparently
<aquarius> it will arrive at some point :)
<BOHverkill> day?!? O.o
<aquarius> sil2100, you may know this: how often does a new "group" of people get admitted to the update? If, say, once an hour a cron job runs which opens up the update to the next group, then there's no point in me checking for updates more than once an hour :)
<aquarius> sil2100, oh! sorry, I've just seen that you answered that question a moment ago to robin-hero
<BOHverkill> i want it now!!! ;)
<EdwardMorbius> aquarius probably not if its hourly based, I still check more often than that :D
<sil2100> aquarius: once an hour makes sense since the tick time is one hour ;)
<aquarius> BOHverkill, <sil2100> robin-hero: it's percentage based, currently we're doing 6%-per-step with a step duration of 1 hour
<aquarius> so every hour another six per cent of people get admitted to the update. So I shall check hourly.
<BOHverkill> random devices?
<aquarius> and invest in some cream cakes for the release team so I end up in the first group ;-) Although I assume it's completely random or based on something I have no control over :)
<BOHverkill> k thx
<sil2100> hah, yeah, we don't have control over it ;) But cream cakes are always welcome!
<BOHverkill> what does "once an hour" mean? on every full hour?
<dobey> for a cron job, i'd expect so, yes
<dobey> aquarius: maybe if you spend 30 years at a temple on a mountain in china, you'll learn how to control it :P
<kenvandine> mandel, don't forget to rebase those branches
<Robin_> hi there can anybody tell me where I can find the change log od Rev 21 that was just relaesed?
<Robin_> changelog of rev21
<robin-hero> Robin_: Commit log: http://people.canonical.com/~lzemczak/landing-team/ota/ota-3.commitlog and list of fixed bugs: https://launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+milestone/ww13-ota
<nik90> zyga: Hey, the component-store docs have been updated with the community channel that aquarius mentioned before. So anybody can upload components to it. Give it a try when you find time and let us know if it works with the pyotherside stuff.
<sil2100> Robin_: next release should have a better changelog, we had some slight issues with the infrastructure but it's now good - best if you check the milestone list from LP, it shows which bugs were closed with this release
<Robin_> a changelog right inside of the Update screen in Ubuntu Phone would be awesome.
<Robin_> click the update and get the information of the changelog
<Darek> Darek
<Guest64966> Hello. Nouveau sur ce channel et sur ubuntu phone
<brunch875> Bienvenue, guest. Nous parlons l'anglais :o
<Guest64966> DesolÃ© my english is basic
<brunch875> Don't worry! We speak simple :)
<Guest64966> I don,t acceded a free wifi avec my ubuntu phone! Have you one solution?
<brunch875> Yes! Is it a normal wifi?
<Guest64966> Yes it's a normal wifi to my FAI. It's free per anyone
<brunch875> What is your phone?
<brunch875> BQ? Nexus?
<Guest64966> I capte it but thereis not run
<Guest64966> My phone is a Aquaris 4.5 Ubuntu Ãdition
<brunch875> Oh... it should work with no problem
<brunch875> do you have a laptop?
<brunch875> can you check the type of wifi connection on your laptop?
<Guest64966> I capte my wifi private et it'i running but not free wufi which is free for anyone
<brunch875> WPA? WEP? TTLS?
<Guest64966> Free wifi is free
<brunch875> Did you try to open the internet browser when connecting?
<dobey> there is a bug where it may take a long time to switch between 3g and wifi. you may be experiencing this. i think the latest update may make it a little bit better
<Guest64966> No wpa, wep etc...
<dobey> there is a system update released today which you should be able to see in updates soon if you haven't already (though i don't know if wifi is required for it)
<brunch875> dobey: He's having issues connecting to one of those open connections. I suspect it's one of those which redirect you to accept terms. I haven't tested such a connection yet.
<dobey> brunch875: maybe. but i have problems connecting to my own wifi that is 2 feet from my phone, sometimes. it connects, but then will have no internet access for 5 minutes or so.
<dobey> i don't have the bq phone though
<brunch875> I've had absolutely no issues with wifi other than TTLS being unsupported
<dobey> eep, no wonder my phone is hot and the battery is draining so quickly
<brunch875> Guest64966: Try connect to wifi -> open internet browser -> www.google.com
<brunch875> maybe something shows up
<dobey> my dialer-app is taking up 100% cpu for hours
<Guest64966> When i go for open one file on internet, i give my id for free wifi and it's connected.
<dobey> so sounds like it is working then :)
 * brunch875 cheers
<zyga> nik90: hey
<zyga> nik90: thanks a lot, I'll do that as soon as I can :)
<zyga> nik90: woot! :)
<brunch875> I'm going to condecorate myself with ubuntu support har har
<Robin_> German News for your Ubuntu Phone and Ubuntu Desktop - www.UbuntuFun.de
<brunch875> nice
<brunch875> I've always wanted to learn german
<brunch875> I can read german just barely good enough to understand most of it
<Robin_> eine Zusammenfassung der Ubuntu Phone Ãnderungen in Rev. 21 auf www.UbuntuFun.de
<OerHeks> I love the german ubuntu wiki :-)
<BOHverkill> OerHeks: me too ;)
<elopio> artmello: https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-platform-qa/gallery-app/clean_delete_autopilot_tests/+merge/256592
<artmello> elopio: great, thx
<artmello> elopio: I will keep this line for the other AP tests and we can review later
<elopio> artmello: sure. Please keep me in the loop about how the qml tests are going so we can remove the big autopilot tests.
<artmello> elopio: will do
<sil2100> o/
<cwayne> mariogrip, yo, im also getting that /cache/recovery too small error when trying to flash from your s-i server
#ubuntu-touch 2015-04-17
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/04/16/phone-updates-april/?utm_source=ubunteu&utm_medium=url_shortner&utm_term=Alss9r&utm_campaign=shortner
<lotuspsychje> To our fledgling phone developer community, for all your votive contributions and vocal participation, thank you! Letâs not be vaunty: we have a lot to do yet, but my oh my what weâve made together feels fantastic. You are the vigorous vanguard, the verecund visionaries and our venerable mates in this adventure. Thank you again.
<lotuspsychje> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1425
<lotuspsychje> thats for you devs :p
<PhilippeP> Morning, New day, New image
<robin-hero> Hi All! If somebody interested: If you copy the ~.local/share/history-service/history.sqlite file to an other device, your call log and your SMS messages work well with the new device :)
<Tm_T> hi, anyone know any working method on getting openvpn connection to ubuntu phone?
<Tm_T> or where to begin digging to possibly find something that could be worked on to make it happen
<PhilippeP> robin-hero: nice tip !
<robin-hero> PhilippeP: Thanks, so now we can make backup from this things :)
<mardy> Laney: hi! About bug 1432613, the account-plugin-windows-live was providing only that chat service
<ubot5> bug 1432613 in Online Accounts: Account plugins "Facebook and MSN shutting down" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432613
<mardy> Laney: can I remove the package from debian/control altogether, or should I keep it (users will be able to create a useless account)?
<Se7> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Bat Appreciation Day! :-D
 * Se7 still waiting for  update :(
<PhilippeP> update was waiting when I woke up this morning ...
<nothingspecial> My bq is stuck in a bootloop, selecting fastboot starts the bootloop, a couple of days a go I did get it into fastboot mode but the recovery failed. Is there another way?
<ogra_> Se7, i guess because you didnt sacrifice enough chicken to the god of random() :)
<ogra_> nothingspecial, do you know what you did before that started ?
<ogra_> (i.e. how did you trigger it)
<nothingspecial> ogra_: Had it charging over night, woke up and the screen was unresponsive so held down power and volume up
<nothingspecial> been looping ever since
<ogra_> hmm, so you didnt nothin active that caused a reboot, like switching the language or so ?
<nothingspecial> The only thing I've done which I shouldn't have is edit /etc/timezone but that was 3 or 4 weeks ago when I first got it
<ogra_> aha
<ogra_> so the device was writable ?
<nothingspecial> no I think I switched it back
<nothingspecial> but I can't say 100%
<ogra_> any other manual modifications ?
<nothingspecial> only bash_aliases for ssh
<nothingspecial> nothing outside of ~
<ogra_> well, thats in your homedir ... i meant the system :)
<nothingspecial> yeah nothing else outside of home
<ogra_> so we have heard of people havoin this issue after switching language .... i wonder if it is effectively the possible timezone switch that this might bring along
<ogra_> nothingspecial, http://askubuntu.com/questions/602834/how-to-reset-bq-ubuntu-phone-when-gui-is-inaccessible
<nothingspecial> maybe
<ogra_> bug 1439864
<ubot5> bug 1439864 in Canonical System Image "Phone gets into a reboot loop" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1439864
<brunch875> ogra_ does that factory reset work even if it was set to writable mode and fiddled with?
<ogra_> brunch875, no guarantees
<ogra_> factory reset will only reset the writable parts of the system
<ogra_> if oyu modify the normally readonly parts it wont have any effect on that ... (that gets reverted with the next OTA though)
<Se7> sorry ogra_ i was afk what it s random()
<brunch875> so if it's properly broken, it would need a re-flash?
<nothingspecial> ogra I can't get into that mode possibly because the phone will not switch off
<ogra_> Se7, the algorithm that decides who gets the pahsed updates ;)
<brunch875> nothingspecial: try holding all buttons down
<brunch875> that worked for me when I couldn't remove the battery
<Se7> ok thans
<Se7> i am not good in maths :P
<ogra_> nothingspecial, there is definitely a hardwired way to get out of that ... i think holding the power button for very lon
<brunch875> even in fastboot mode
<ogra_> g
<nothingspecial> brunch875: ogra_ oh hang on it went into fastboot mode.....
<ogra_> cool
<brunch875> cheerio
<ogra_> if the factory reset doesnt work, you should always be able to re-flash from a PC
<nothingspecial> I'm doing that now
<nothingspecial> Failed to Enter Recovery :|
<ogra_> one sec
<nothingspecial> trying again
<ogra_> http://askubuntu.com/questions/602035/how-do-i-use-ubuntu-device-flash-with-the-bq-aquaris-e4-5
<ogra_> you need the recovery.img linked from that article
<nothingspecial> yeah, I'm doing that
<ogra_> and you need to use --bootatrap
<ogra_> *bootstrap
<nothingspecial> I'ts downloading something but the bq is going into bootloop before it finishes
<nothingspecial> yeah I'm using --bootstrap ad the recovery image
<ogra_> well, it should be in fastboot mode when you do that ...
<ogra_> then it will first load the supplied recovery.img and boot this
<nothingspecial> it is and it says USB Transfering.... o the phone but then the bootloop starts again and the pc says Failed to enter recovery
<ogra_> hmm, how empty/fuull is your battery ?
<ogra_> sounds like a power issue ... it should definitely transfer all the files and reboot into the same recovery afterwards
<nothingspecial> I have no idea lol
<brunch875> haha
<ogra_> if it dies before the copying happened that sounds like it dies from power loss
<nothingspecial> it's been like this for 3 days now, but it has been plugged ito the pc for an hour while I try and sort this
<ogra_> try charging it for a while ... on the actual charger, not on a PC
<nothingspecial> ok
<nothingspecial> that sounds reasonable. I'll give it a go. Thanks
<ogra_> PC USB ports  only give 500mA ...
<ogra_> iirc the power supply has 2A
<ogra_> give it half an hour and then try again
<brunch875> ogra_: Out of curiosity... I've heard that android 5 drivers stomp ubuntu. Does this reflash work after that, or should you install android 4 beforehand?
<nothingspecial> will do thanks
<ogra_> (and try to get it out of the reboot when it charges ;) )
<nothingspecial> I'll leave it in fastboot mode
<ogra_> good
<ogra_> brunch875, on the ubuntu phone ?
<brunch875> yeah
<nothingspecial> thaks, I'll let you know how it goes
<ogra_> not sure what happens if you install android on it ... we never tested that usecase :)
<brunch875> I'm sure some people will eventually try and install android on it
<ogra_> but since our default firmware comes from android 4.x you could indeed get probs if something writes the 5.0 driver firmware into some HW
<ogra_> well, then they have to keep the pieces :)
<brunch875> I don't suppose flashing ubuntu would refresh the drivers, would it?
<ogra_> it will refresh the drivers ... but if something in android replaced the actual firmware in the HW you could be screwed
<ogra_> we dont flash bootloader or modem firmware by default from ubuntu-device-flash
<brunch875> scary!
<ogra_> well, flashing android 4.x before going back to ubuntu would likely get you out of this
<ogra_> but its a lot of extra work :)
<brunch875> So it is possible to flash the bootloader?
<ogra_> android does that
<brunch875> I always wondered since I got my first android...
<brunch875> since it's not as easy to break a desktop computer
<ogra_> (only on open devices thouh ... )
<brunch875> that would be like flashing the BIOS, wouldn't it be?
<ogra_> devices with locked down bootloader will indeed not allow you to do that
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> well,fopr most phones a BIOS with a password set ... one that only the manufacturer knows
<brunch875> It's the most sane choice, really. Some stuff should remain ROM
<ogra_> and while the bq is completely open, you cant count on that fact for all ubuntu phones of the future ...
<ogra_> it is always up to the manufacturer to decide how open he wants his system
<brunch875> I would personally make  the most basic stuff like the bootloader hardwired
<brunch875> so there would be no possible way to break it
<ogra_> (i.e. meizu does not have a single open device on the market ... will be very interesting to see what their MX4 ubuntu offers )
<brunch875> I can't count the amount of times I killed my computers to then resurrect them
<nalum> hello all, can anyone tell me what the default password is to use the terminal and if it can be changed?
<brunch875> the password is the same as the lock screen one
<brunch875> if there's no lock screen, the password is the same as the LAST lock screen
<brunch875> if there was never a lock screen... I have no idea :)
<brunch875> Word of advice: change your password by changing the lock screen. If you have a numeric lock screen and use 'passwd' in a terminal to change it to contain something with not only numbers, you won't be able to get past the lock screen (since you can only input numbers and the new password contains letters too!)
<brunch875> better yet, never use 'passwd' from the terminal to change the password. Use the lock screen settings!
<nalum> Ah, cool thanks brunch875
<rbasak> After the new OTA I'm not seeing any images in scopes. Just empty spaces. Anyone else seeing that?
<brunch875> rbasak: No issues on mine!
<ogra_> rbasak, is your netwrok working ?
<rbasak> ogra_: yes
<ogra_> rbasak, bug 1430828
<ubot5> bug 1430828 in Canonical System Image "scopes dont load pictures" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430828
<rbasak> Thanks
<tekojo> bzoltan_: ping
<nalum> brunch875: seems like it doesn't have a password if you don't set an unlock code or passphrase
<brunch875> Yes, that makes sense
<nalum> Is it possible to get apt-get or aptitude working? I guess even if I did, it's not supposed to be used
<nothingspecial> ogra_: I can't get it into fastboot mode again, now. Selectig it triggers the boot loop again
<ogra_> are you sure you select it right ? that menu is strangelky wired up to the buttons (iirc vol down is "enter" or some such, there is description on the screen)
<nothingspecial> yeah, tried it about 20 times now
<brunch875> nalum, check this out: http://askubuntu.com/questions/380258/how-to-change-the-ubuntu-installation-to-read-write-mode-on-a-mobile-device
<ogra_> nalum, yes, but not recommended ... you would need to make the system writable and OTA updates would revert what you installed ...
<ogra_> john-mcaleely, any idea how to help nothingspecial ?
<ogra_> john-mcaleely, he is in a boot loop and cant get out of it even via fastboot or recovery
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, that's a new one
<ogra_> yes
<nothingspecial> choosing fastboot just starts the bootloop again
<john-mcaleely> that might be a back to BQ problem
<john-mcaleely> it is new
<nothingspecial> yeah, that's going to take a while then
<rbasak> ogra_: I think I figured out what's going on - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1430828/comments/29
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1430828 in Canonical System Image "scopes dont load pictures" [Critical,Confirmed]
<ogra_> rbasak, ah, could be a messed up default route ... awe is currently looking into that (there are cases where your default route points to the wrong thing when switching networks)
<rbasak> ogra_: my default route must have been fine, because everything else that needed connectivity worked - for example getting text in scopes.
<ogra_> ah, right, you said so
<rbasak> ogra_: I suspect the issue is that if connectivity is broken at boot, something in the image-loading pipeline gets wedged forever.
<ogra_> yeah
<nik90> ogra_: is the phasing update for ota-3 complete?
<ogra_> nik90, not sure, you have to wait for sil2100
<nik90> ok
<popey> 24 hours iirc
<popey> https://twitter.com/popey/status/588754242569011200 19 hours ago, so probably not.
<nik90> popey: I asked since my BQ that I got today, received its last update in jan 2015 before it was packaged I guess
<nik90> and doesnt have any other OTAs except for app updates
<popey> what version is it running?
<popey> oh, also, yay, you got a bq ! :D
<nik90> popey: thnx :) .. it is running r16
<popey> that doesn't sound right
<juzzlin_> mine had also r16 when I got it and it updated to r20
<nik90> hmm .. not sure why mine is stuck at r16..I restarted it just in case.
<juzzlin_> it didn't go smoothly in my device either...the updater was buggy
<popey> oh
<popey> well you won't get the update because of phased updates
<popey> thats a flaw
<popey> it should take you to r20 if r21 is phased.
<ogra_> juzzlin_, buggy in what way ?
<popey> dunno how that bit of it works, maybe now everyone is phased now.
<nik90> https://imgur.com/axlWsVZ
<popey> seems flawed if it is
<nik90> popey: should this be reported against ubuntu-system-settings ?
<ogra_> well, it is some magic done by slangasek and sil2100 ... not sure how it exactly works
<juzzlin_> ogra_, the updater seemed to be stuck when donwloading the image, but it still apparently downloaded it in the background etc
<ogra_> juzzlin_, did you file a bug ?
<juzzlin_> ogra_, no because wasn't sure what happened and I got the device updated after a reboot
<juzzlin_> the updater has worked correctly in the r20
<ogra_> ok
<popey> nik90: what does "system-image-cli -n" say?
<nik90> popey: it gives no output
<john-mcaleely> popey, if the phone is fresh from the factory, 16 is right
<john-mcaleely> nik90, ^
<nik90> john-mcaleely: I agree..but just wondering why it didnt update to r20 (OTA-2) while I wait for OTA-3 through phased updates.
<john-mcaleely> interesting. yes, good question
<popey> yeah :)
<ogra_> because it perhaps phases all aupdates now
<ogra_> *all updates
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-image/+filebug?no_redirect
<popey> file there IMO
<popey> according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Avengers (wot I just edited)
 * nik90 bookmarks that link
<slangasek> ogra_: no, the phased percentage is applied to a specific image version on the channel (and by policy, should only be applied to the most recent version on the channel)
<popey> so nik90 likely is experiencing a bug then.
<ogra_> slangasek, ack, thanks !
<ogra_> yeah, sounds like a bug
<ogra_> nik90, do you see any system-image process in your processlist ?
<slangasek> my recollection is that if the top image is phased, the user should still get the update to the previous version; but I'm not completely sure of that, would need to check this with barry
 * ogra_ remembers cases where a hanging s-i prevented the update
<popey> he's rebooted...
<ogra_> oh
<nik90> ogra_: nope I dont see any
<ogra_> slangasek, do you know what our word on changelogs for OTAs is ? "weill come in future OTAs" ? (i know lukasz had issues assembling one for this one, but someone asked on the ML)
<slangasek> no, I don't know
<nik90> so do I wait for this phased update period to be over to get the update? I am just hoping I am stuck at r16
<nik90> s/am/am not
<ogra_> nik90, we do too !
<Elleo> nik90: if you use ubuntu-device-flash you shouldn't be hampered by the phasing
<nik90> ogra_, slangasek: Alrite I will wait another 6-7 hours and keep you updated
<popey> Elleo: we shouldn't have to use that method/
<nik90> Elleo: true, but I just want to make sure another new user doesn't face this situation
<Elleo> nik90: are you not even able to upgrade to r20?
<nik90> Elleo: yes
<popey> nik90: can you wait for the 24 hours to be up, and let us know what happens?
<Danny_D> hi
<nik90> popey: definitely
<popey> ~3 hours from now
<popey> thanks
<Danny_D> where is the changelog for the update that rolled out to bq devices?
<Elleo> Danny_D: there's this: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/04/16/phone-updates-april/ and the commitlog: http://people.canonical.com/~lzemczak/landing-team/ota/ota-3.commitlog
<popey> there's also this http://pad.ubuntu.com/ChangeLog which has a list of debian package changes :)
<popey> (and clicks)
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10838468/ for those who don't have access to etherpad
<nik90> bug 1445483 for now
<ubot5> bug 1445483 in system-image (Ubuntu) "BQ Device does not update to nearest image while waiting for the latest update " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445483
<popey> thanks nik90
<Danny_D> Elleo: thanks
<Elleo> Danny_D: no problem :)
<popey> nik90: can you paste system-image-cli --info, ?
 * ogra_ grins noticing that Elleo and him just wrote nearly the same mail 
<Elleo> heh
<nik90> popey: sure, 1 sec
<nik90> done
<popey> ta
 * popey flashes 16 to his krillin
 * cwayne needs to find the best way to get the custom changelog included in the commitlog
<studio_> hi
<popey> hello
<ogra_> bah
<kenvandine> Elleo, not ready for a full review yet, but can you look at my API changes in my serialized_content_transfers branch?
<kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/content-hub/serialized_content_transfers/+merge/256035
<ogra_> the "volume popup shows when audio starts playing" bug is back for me in vivd
<kenvandine> Elleo, and if you have time, mind chatting about it after the standup?
<kenvandine> i want to run some thoughts by you for opinions
<studio_> i was reading offline the problem from nothingspecial. i had same prob to days ago. Power and VOL "-" fixed the loop on my phone
<Danny_D> btw, the stallboard app is pure genius
<Danny_D> "It's spyware."
<ogra_> popey should make it paid ... he could get rich ;)
<popey> haha
<Elleo> kenvandine: okay, will take a look
<Danny_D> you could update it to have even more sounds, tabs maybe
<ogra_> he could merge it with the hodor app :)
<Danny_D> or make a high score list, which quotes are the best
<ogra_> (or is that gone ?)
<Danny_D> by uploading click counts
<popey> haha
<popey> all great ideas :)
<Danny_D> "Oh wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait u said COMMERCIAL SOFTWARE."
<seb128> kenvandine, jgdx, do you know what's going on with those u-s-s tz tests failing something?
<kenvandine> seb128, we have flaky tests again
<jgdx> seb128, no, it's flaky
<kenvandine> if you rebuild enough, it passes :/
<kenvandine> we need to figure that out
<seb128> kenvandine, jgdx, do we know why/what changed?
<kenvandine> it's driving me nuts
<Danny_D> having more quotes in stallboard would be great for doing prank calls at microsoft
<popey> nik90: tried reproducing your issue... got offered #21 immediately, sorry :)
<davmor2> I know that one doctor doctor I have a steering wheel on my........wait kenvandine you were saying it was confusing right ;)
<seb128> kenvandine, jgdx, of course it's working on my device, several tries, all good
<Danny_D> btw am i the only one constantly making screenshots since the volume buttons are used for this? :P
<kenvandine> seb128, no idea, i tried on my device
<kenvandine> and can't reproduce it
<seb128> same here :-/
<kenvandine> only happens in CI
<seb128> of course
<kenvandine> i spent hours trying yesterday :/
<seb128> wouldn't be fun otherwise
<kenvandine> it's time to ask cihelp i guess
<nik90> popey: damn :P
<jgdx> the instructions to recreate what happens during a ci run is daunting
<nik90> popey: you are always at the extremes: thing either work very well or you find bugs that are impossible to reproduce ...be normal for once :D
<popey> hah
<popey> well, i dunno how system-image works, maybe my card is marked, and I will automagically get that update because I had it before
<nik90> I guess you are in the good books of someone high up who controls this randomness
<nik90> anyways I will wait another few hours
<EdwardMorbius> after todays update I noticed after a while that unity8 is eating cpu like crazy, 150% usage and battery goes down fast, I will let it turn off and plug it into a charger, I hope its a temporary glitch
<dobey> EdwardMorbius: what channel?
<EdwardMorbius> dobey regular BQ update OTA-3 the latest
<EdwardMorbius> I will see if it returns to normal after I turn it on again
<sturmflut_> nik90, popey: I didn't get the first part of your conversation, but if it's about not getting the update, system-image-cli has a "--percentage" parameter
<popey> we don't want to override it
<popey> sturmflut_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-image/+bug/1445483 is the context
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1445483 in system-image (Ubuntu) "BQ Device does not update to nearest image r20 while waiting for the latest update r21 which is being phased" [Undecided,New]
<sturmflut_> popey: Oooh!
<sturmflut_> popey: I never even thought about this case
<EdwardMorbius> turned the phone on again, cpu usage seems normal at the moment, I will monitor it for a while.
<nik90> sturmflut_: did you implement the phasing updates stuff?
<seb128> kenvandine, jgdx, I got the test to fail 3 times on my n7 vivid device now
<sturmflut_> nik90: No, I'm not even with Canonical ;)
<jgdx> seb128, cool, what happens?
<seb128> kenvandine, jgdx, it looks like it's tapping on the result, the bg color changes but the text doesn't turn red and it doesn't go back to pop the page
<seb128> I can type manually and that works
<nik90> sturmflut_: .. just wondering who is responsible for me not getting the cool battery fixes and stuff ;P
<sturmflut_> Today some guy at work who I haven't talked to for half a year sent me an e-mail with a screenshot of all my apps in the Click store, and the comment "Laudable."
<sturmflut_> So this is what stardom feels like
<jgdx> seb128, kenvandine, sounds like https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/ubuntu-system-settings/fix-datetime-test-failure/+merge/247586
<seb128> jgdx, you mean?
<seb128> the result is not offscreen
<jgdx> seb128, what's the tests name?
<seb128> jgdx, ubuntu_system_settings.tests.test_datetime.TimeDateTestCase.test_manual_tz_selection
<jgdx> seb128, then it's not that
<jgdx> that was a scroll_to_and_click which did not click properly for some reason
<jgdx> it became a drag instead, and the test just stopped there
<seb128> if it was a drag you would see it in the autopilot log?
<jgdx> not sure, sorry
<sturmflut_> Anybody using/working on WebGL in Oxide? I just checked if https://bugs.launchpad.net/webapps-touch/+bug/1356566 also applies to the E4.5 and it seems like WebGL support is even more broken than before
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1356566 in oxide-qt (Ubuntu) "Image distortion and low framerate when using WebGL on Nexus devices" [Undecided,New]
<studio_> ehm, is the menu with power and vol - new on the bq?
<ogra_> no, all ubuntu phones should have it
<studio_> i flashed my phone from ubuntu-touch/rc/ubuntu-developer to and have again a boot-loop. last time, when i got this error, power and vol. - fixed that, but now i have this menu?
<kenvandine> seb128, doing the same thing on your n7 manually, does it seem slow?
<studio_> to "ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed"
<kenvandine> the test failure seems to be timeout waiting for the header title to change
<seb128> kenvandine, it's not a speed issue
<seb128> no
<seb128> it types "london ..." in the tz entry
<seb128> results are listed
<seb128> it "taps" on the second one
<seb128> the bg of the listitem gets selected
<seb128> but the text doesn't color in red
<seb128> and the time/page pop doesn't happen
<seb128> I can manually tap then and it works
<seb128> in the 10s timeframe
<seb128> so it's like the tap was a failed tap
<seb128> like it was a dnd or something
<kenvandine> test_same_tz_selection fails sometimes too
<kenvandine> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/generic-deb-autopilot-runner-vivid-mako/2021/testReport/junit/ubuntu_system_settings.tests.test_datetime/TimeDateTestCase/test_same_tz_selection/
<seb128> the onClicked: doesn't trigger
<kenvandine> different test
<seb128> kenvandine, same issue I guess
<seb128> tap not generating an onClicked for some reason
<kenvandine> great that you reproduced it locally
<seb128> they both use self.main_view.pointing_device.click_object()
<kenvandine> i ran it several times yesterday and no failure
<kenvandine> on my krillin
<seb128> yeah, I had to run it 15 times to get a failure there
<kenvandine> my mako was busy testing something else :)
<kenvandine> ugh
<kenvandine> in CI it fails much more often than that
<nik90> popey, slangasek, ogra_ : I got the update :) Blue led notification
<ogra_> \o/
<popey> interesting
<nik90> holy cow 414.5 mb
<ogra_> sil2100, ignore me in the other channel then :)
<popey> still a bug :)
<nik90> I guess the phased-updates does delay it then
<ogra_> nik90, because you skipped OTA2 for whatever reason ... else it would only be half of that :)
<ogra_> yeah, but you should have gotten -2
<nik90> so shall i update? Any other logs you guys might need?
<sil2100> I checked and it's 100% finished now, might have taken a bit longer than expected ;)
<ogra_> nik90, probably tar up /var/log at least
<nik90> sure
<studio_> is someone here using "KRILIN01A-S15A_BQ_L100EN_1187_150417" without a boot-loop?
 * ogra_ doubts many people use the zips from teh bq site at all
<studio_> ?
<studio_> that is from "touch/devel-proposed"
<ogra_> studio_, most people using the bq in here bought it with ubuntu
 * ogra_ has no clue where that cryptic thn up there comes from ... not a version we typically use
<ogra_> *thing
<Elleo> kenvandine: heya you wanted to chat about the serialisation stuff? shall we open a new hangout or just do it over IRC?
<kenvandine> lets do a hangout... but give me 5m
<kenvandine> Elleo, ok?
<Elleo> okay, sure thing :)
<studio_> ogra_, my phone was working half an our ago with the version from "ubuntu-touch/rc/ubuntu-developer" but after the "update" i got the loop. i'll go to re-flash now the complete phone ...
<popey> someone in -uk is reporting boot loop on update
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10838874/
<Se7> no update in uk yet
<jgdx> abeato, ping
<abeato> jgdx, pong
<jgdx> abeato, hey, are you using phonesim?
<abeato> jgdx, not really, I've never used it
<jgdx> abeato, okay, nm then :)
<abeato> maybe Wellark^^
<ogra_> popey, lol, i wonder how he thinks more buttons would help though :)
<popey> heh
<ogra_> its not like you then dont make the decision "press" or "dont press"
<jgdx> abeato, just out of curiosity, how do you test calls and smses? :)
<abeato> jgdx, with a real SIM :p
<abeato> note that phonesim is useless anyway when testing rilmodem drivers
<abeato> because it is actually a driver
<jgdx> abeato, that makes sense
<Wellark> jgdx, abeato ?
<jgdx> Wellark, hey, I'm using phonesim and I'm missing interfaces.
<abeato> Wellark, jgdx was interested in phonesim
<jgdx> Wellark, if you have moment, could you sim a sim and check if you're missing them as well? E.g. connectionmanager.
<Wellark> jgdx: I'm now on mtg
<Wellark> jgdx: will ping you soon
<jgdx> Wellark, thanks
<BOHverkill> How can I add my own music/sounds as ringtone?
<juzzlin_> I just got the r21 and everything went smoothly :)
<ogra_> yippie
<ogra_> BOHverkill, currently only via a hack by making the system temporary wirtable,putting your audio file into the right dir and making it readonly again
<jgdx> abeato, segfault in ofono seems to be a part of it :)
<studio_> ok, after flashing 1.5gb by phone is working again :)
<abeato> jgdx, lol
<BOHverkill> ogra_: mhhh k, but if I do that is there a risk that I do not get OTAs anymore?
<ogra_> BOHverkill, nah, you will always get OTAs
<jgdx> abeato, any idea what this is? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10838959/
<BOHverkill> ogra_: k who do I do that and which formats are supported?
<ogra_> BOHverkill, adding a single file that isnt inside an OTA wont do any harm
<ogra_> i thinnk mp3 and ogg ...
<BOHverkill> ogra_: and what harm?
<ogra_> no harm, as i said :)
<abeato> jgdx, hm, probably rild is not present. are you running it on a phone?
<jgdx> abeato, desktop
<abeato> jgdx, you need to exlude the rildev plugin in that case
<BOHverkill> ogra_: no what harms an ota?
<BOHverkill> *and
<abeato> with ofono -P rildev
<ogra_> BOHverkill, its rather the other way round ... an OTA harms your changes ... if you changed any existing file in the rootfs it would be reverted ...
<richi__> Wow, how many times does the phone boot during an OTA? I almost thought it was in a boot loop.
<ogra_> 2 x
<ogra_> it boots to recovery after downloading, unpacks the diff in the rootfs and reboots to normal
<richi__> It looked more like something between 5 and 10.
<studio_> :)
<ogra_> that doesnt sound right
<studio_> as i said ...
<ogra_> and is definitely not anything we have seen in testing
<BOHverkill> ogra_: k changing or deleting an existing file on the ro mounted partition, i am right?
<ogra_> BOHverkill, right ... or switching to writable and installing something etc etc
<BOHverkill> harms the ota
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> the OTA would just revert your changes
<BOHverkill> oh k
<richi__> It switched between black and white screen a couple of times, until I gew worried. But as soon as I saw the ubuntu logo again, everything was well.
<jgdx> abeato, that was it! Thank you. /cc Wellark
<ogra_> ah, so you had the screen flashing, not a reboot ?
<abeato> np
<BOHverkill> ogra_: and how do i install the ringtones?
<richi__> It looked just like rebooting every time.
<ogra_> richi__, well, rebooting means that you see the bq logo for a while
<richi__> ogra_   Yes, white means white with the bq logo, then black again.
<ogra_> BOHverkill, sudo mount -o remount,rw /
<ogra_> BOHverkill, sudo cp /path/to/your/ringtone/ringtone.ogg /usr/share/sounds/ubuntu/ringtones/
<ogra_> BOHverkill, sudo mount -o remount,ro /
<ogra_> if the latter command says it is busy, call "sudo sync" and then reboot the device ... so it is readonly again ... you dont want to keep it rw
<matv1> would it be possible to show to which phone nbr an incomming call was made (in case of dual sim). Both in notifications as wel as in recent calls within the phone app?
<ogra_> sure, it is just software :)
<matv1> or does a feature request/bug exist?
<matv1> if not should it need to be filed against phone app or notifications?
<matv1> or both?
<ogra_> bfiller, ^^^ do we have a wishlist bug for that ?
<matv1> especially in case of missed calls its usefull
<bfiller> ogra_: should already be there in the recents view, left swipe to reveal more actions and press info button
<ogra_> matv1, ^^
<bfiller> oh wait
<bfiller> maybe that doesn't show which number it was receieved on
<BOHverkill> ogra_: thx :)
<matv1> yes it is there bfiller
<bfiller> matv1: ok cool, I only have one sim atm so can't test
<matv1> at least in the phone app
<matv1> bfiller ok not in notifications yet
<matv1> but I can live with just the one place I guess
<bfiller> matv1: would make sense for it to show up in notification as well, please file a bug at bugs.launchpad.net/telephony-service and we'll take a look
<matv1> bfiller ok will do that. thanks!
<matv1> bfiller you would need to think about a way to implement that in terms of ui because you can't do it the same way you did in the phone app
<matv1> bcause you cant open a new page from there
<matv1> i think
<bfiller> matv1: I would think the notification would say "Missed call from <number> on <simId>" or something like that
<matv1> if you can squeeze that in :)
<bfiller> yup
<bfiller> can do multi line
<matv1> ok in that case agreed. might want to consider the same way in the phone app. the current way is not optimal in terms of discoverability :)
<matv1> or else i am bad at discovering
<bfiller> matv1: agreed, we're working on a way to make the swipe actions more discoverable
<bfiller> matv1: its' very hidden currently
<bfiller> renatu: that reminds me, where are those branches for the first time hints of the swipe actions on dialer and messaging?
<bfiller> don't think we ever finished
<renatu> bfiller, let me find it
<renatu> bfiller, https://code.launchpad.net/~renatofilho/dialer-app/swipe-item-demo/+merge/251085
<kenvandine> pmcgowan, i was able to fix that dim-timeout bug in settings :)
<bfiller> renatu: thanks, will add a story for this
<matv1> ah you are thinking of incorperating it into the first-run demo?
<pmcgowan> kenvandine, hah thought so
<bfiller> renatu: maybe we can look at in sprint with olga
<pmcgowan> cool
<kenvandine> pmcgowan, there isn't a milestone set on bug 1437510
<ubot5> bug 1437510 in Canonical System Image "Screen dim is not following the lock screen timeout (always dimming after 50 seconds)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437510
<bfiller> matv1: more like first time you go to the recents page it's an demo that shows you the tips for that view
<studio_> maybe you should users give a hint that that the update is about 37 times flashing the screen on the bq and it could take while ... "i" thought it is a boot-loop!
<kenvandine> please set as appropriate, and we'll land it based on that
<ogra_> studio_, it doesnt do that and it isnt normal ...
<pmcgowan> kenvandine, we are not gating with milestones now, they are more for tracking
<pmcgowan> but I will set it
<renatu> bfiller, this is a good idea, but I think olga has some different ideas for it, and SDK has his own implementation of the listem items that should be used by the apps
<kenvandine> oh... i thought we were still :)
<renatu> bfiller, but yeah we can use it as temporary solution :(
<kenvandine> pmcgowan, but it does help me prioritize branches in the approved queue for landing
<studio_> ogra_, i never had that before, so for me this is new
<bfiller> renatu: yeah
<pmcgowan> very good marked for ww17
<renatu> bfiller,  I do not like temporary solutions anymore, they give me a lot of work to maintain it later :(
<ogra_> studio_, but you are neither using the official channel nor the official hardware
<matv1> bfiller ok I understand. i will look out fr it in future proposed images :) thnks again
<ogra_> could well be that vivid images have an issue amt
<ogra_> *atm
<bfiller> matv1: np
<studio_> ogra_, i am on "channel: ubuntu-touch/stable/bq-aquaris.en" / "alias: ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09" is that not official?
<studio_> and what means official hardware?
<ogra_> you just gave me a diferent channel in PM
<studio_> no, i told you, a am back on the original
<kenvandine> pmcgowan, thx
<studio_> r19 is my lates original
<ogra_> studio_, still, your partitioning and your bootloader are different from the ubuntu phone
<ogra_> (beyond having the buttons on the glass)
<studio_> ogra_, scatter is the same as in the git for the ubuntu-kernel
<ogra_> ?
<studio_> "MT6582_Android_scatter.txt"
<ogra_> no idea what that is
<studio_> it is the partition
<ogra_> no, the partitioning is created at produiction of the phone in the factory
<ogra_> no matter what that file there says
<Wellark> jgdx: ping
<ogra_> and the bootloader is flashed during the factory process too ... nothing in ubuntu ever touches the bootloader later
<jgdx> Wellark, pong
<studio_> ogra_, you never used the mtk-flash-tools?
<ogra_> studio_, nope, only a few elite people like john-mcaleely use the mtk tools in canonical :)
<ogra_> the rest of us uses ubuntu-device-flash
<john-mcaleely> :-)
<cwayne> john-mcaleely is 1337
<ogra_> +1
<studio_> so, try them, they are easy :)
<ogra_> !
<ogra_> studio_, but dont help me to find issues with the tools i work on or maintain
<ogra_> they are for android users :)
<ogra_> i use the ubuntu tools :)
<studio_> or users who want to try other things ...
<studio_> ogra_, bq made an easy way for their customers, they can flash all versions for their device.
<brunch875> studio_: can you hand me a link?
<fgimenez> hi renatu, can you take a look at this mp when possible https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-platform-qa/address-book-app/flake8-fixes/+merge/256684 ?
<studio_> bq.com ?
<brunch875> I mean to that easy link
<brunch875> that "easy way"
<studio_> flash-tools?
<studio_> wait
<ogra_> studio_, yes, because windows users can not install ubuntu-device-flash
<Wellark> jgdx: other server
<studio_> here are the flash-tools: http://www.mibqyyo.com/descargas/2013/11/25/drivers-y-utilidades/
<ogra_> its not like bq made them btw, they are just the standard android flash tools using an android like version of our image that is differently packed than the one from the server
<brunch875> thanks!
<renatu> fgimenez, sure
<brunch875> ubuntu-device-flash seems a lot more comfortable
<ogra_> well, it has its own issues :) but yeah
<mariogrip> don't know if this is a bug or not implemented, but live swap sim card does not work.
<studio_> "its not like bq made them btw,..." sorry, this is nosens. bq said, they wanted to publish the firmware in march ...
<studio_> it is not official released, but it is "public"
<ogra_> studio_, hmm ?
<studio_> it is not a "android-flash-tool"
<ogra_> studio_, bq didnt write these tools ... they are the standard android flash tools for mtk devices ... and use a re-packaged image
<studio_> it is not android depending!
<ogra_> which is why the image you can download at bq.com is a .zip
<studio_> it is a flash-tool
<ogra_> a zip that comes in the same format as an android image
<ogra_> so the mtk flash tool can use it
<studio_> no, it comes in a mt6582-format
<brunch875> yikes! I must control myself not to flash devel
<studio_> read about the scatter.txt
<ogra_> studio_, really, i dont care about these tools ... if they work for you thats good though
<ogra_> i told you what i know about them ...
<studio_> bq self told me, the E4.5 will be the ubuntu-phone. i prefer the E5 HD with 16gb flash
<studio_> it is also krillin
<ogra_> not sure what you mean with that
<studio_> with krillin?
<ogra_> yes, there is only one device with that name
<studio_> https://github.com/bq/aquaris-E5/tree/aquaris-E5/mediatek/config/krillin
<ogra_> (wouldnt make much sense to have more than one with a name thats supposed to be unique :) )
<studio_> :)
<studio_> same cpu
<studio_> as the E4
<ogra_> most likely even the same board
<fgimenez> renatu, thx!
<dobey> probably the same phone, with a different screen and flash?
<studio_> E4 and E5?
<studio_> sure
<studio_> the old E5 was with 8gb, the E4 is using a mt6582m
<studio_> dobey, all kernels (E4, E4.5 and E5 HD) are built with nfc, and that is what i do not understand :(
<dobey> studio_: i don't understand why you care if the kernels were built with nfc enabled
<ogra_> or why you care about android kernels :)
<studio_> so it can handle nfc?
<studio_> not android-kernels. also ubuntu-kernel!
<ogra_> well, same thing i explained you about cifs and nfs
<ogra_> nothing in the system can make use of NFC yet
<ogra_> once the API has support for it, it will also be enabled in the kernel
<ogra_> until then you have to enable it on your own
<studio_> ogra_, cifs and nfs/nfsd are not in the ubuntu-kernel. but nfc is enabled "CONFIG_NFC_MT6605=y"
<kenvandine> pmcgowan, thinking about the dim-timeout setting, if it is expected to always be activity-time - 10, why even have a separate setting in gsettings
<kenvandine> we can't ever set it independent of activity-timeout
<ogra_> kenvandine, no, that is why we have the bug for it :)
<kenvandine> so USC should dim the screen on activity-timeout - 10
<kenvandine> the USC task was set invalid, so in settings i always set dim-timeout to activity-timeout - 10 when activity-timeout changes
<dobey> studio_: if nfc is enabled and there's no hardware for it, then it won't be used
<kenvandine> which seems wrong, we should drop the setting and just dim based on activity-timeout
<ogra_> kenvandine, +1
<dobey> studio_: just like how cirrus video drivers are enabled by default, but i'm not in 1995 any more
<kenvandine> pmcgowan, ^^
<ogra_> kenvandine, so if you do this already in settings, are we sure there is anything in poweroff_timeout at all ?
<kenvandine> pmcgowan, my fix works around that issue, but i really think eventually USC should handle that automatically and drop the setting completely
<kenvandine> in setting we only set activity-timeout in gsettings
<ogra_> looks like you subtract from 0 or some such, if you actually use the corrent setting
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> you dont use the dbus call thats described in the bug ?
<kenvandine> so i have a branch that sets dim-timeout when activity-timeout changes
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> it's just gsettings
<kenvandine> my branch works fine, but it's silly to have a separate setting that is expected to always be relative to another setting
 * kenvandine reopens USC task and comments
<studio_> dobey, i am confused right now, who made the kernel?
<ogra_> studio_, mtk
<studio_> i thought you?
<dobey> omfg
<dobey> studio_: what do you mean "made"?
<dobey> linux kernel developers "made" the kernel
<ogra_> well, effectively linus torvalds made it
<dobey> mtk made drivers that are added to the kernel
<studio_> dobey, some days ago popey said "we" make the kernel ...
<ogra_> well, google changed it first
<dobey> bq published a git repo with the mtk stuff and the kernel
<ogra_> then mtk added drivers
<dobey> canonical/ubuntu compiled the kernel
<ogra_> right, we build the binary
<ogra_> (and we added other bits like apparmor and a ton of fixes that bq sent to mtk)
<dobey> right
<davmor2> studio_: you know the whole conversation that you had with ogra and dobey where you went round and round in circles about the kernel and the drivers and we said then we didn't own the kernel or drivers, guess what it looks like you are having that self same conversation again :D
<dobey> we don't add arbitrary module configuration to the build though
<ogra_> so linus, google, mtk and canonical *made* the kernel :)
<ogra_> davmor2, yeah, we like to go in loops :)
<dobey> ogra_: and microsoft too!
<dobey> i prefer to be going 200+ MPH if i'm going in loops
<davmor2> dobey: you need to type faster then :P
<ogra_> you need good shoes doing that
<dobey> davmor2: or take a tryp to Indianapolis next month and get my Indy/CART license :)
<dobey> trip even
<ogra_> whee
<ogra_> do you ?
<dobey> i don't have that license now, no. but the Indy 500 week has a bunch of events, and training thing where you can pay to drive a car round the track and get a license :)
<studio_> davmor2, could you please give me a hint how to patch the kernel?
<ogra_> yeah, in germany we perfer to drive straight ... we got the autobahn ;)
<davmor2> studio_: no idea I don't patch kernels
<studio_> so
<mariogrip> .... the kernel.ubuntu.com/git is still down!!
<ogra_> (though my car doesnt go above 170mph ... )
<Myself5> ogra_, unless there is a LKW in front of you or the speedlimit is there :P
<davmor2> ogra_: dobey: so I just need a private road :)
<ogra_> Myself5, indeed :)
<davmor2> studio_: why are trying to patch the kernel anyway
<dobey> studio_: patch -p0 < kernel-fix.patch
<dobey> though you don't need a patch
<dobey> you need logic and reason
<studio_> because i need cifs and nfs
<dobey> you don't need a patch for that
<ogra_> just a config change
<dobey> you need a kernel built with support
<studio_> dobey, have you ever read the patch for the aquaris 5, without "E" ?
<ogra_> "the patch" ?
<dobey> you need to go configure the upstream kernel of the same version, to have those features enabled, find what CONFIG_ options were enabled in that config after you do the "make menuconfig" to enable them, and then apply those CONFIG_ options to the bq kernel and build it with those
<dobey> it's not hard
<ogra_> dobey, did you still have that line in your history from last time ?
<ogra_> or did you actually type it again
<dobey> you can do that, or you can just stop trying to get nfs/cifs on your phone, because it's not enabled by default
<dobey> ogra_: lol, i typed that again
<mariogrip> popey, any news on kernel.ubuntu.com/git?
<davmor2> dobey: you need more coding to do then surely ;)
<popey> mariogrip: lemme ask
<dobey> just like it looks like i'm going to have to type the "please stop asking the same f'n questions over and over again after you've been given answers" again
<ogra_> ogasawara, is anyone working on gettin gitweb back up ?
<dobey> davmor2: i need more codeine maybe
<popey> mariogrip: yeah, known problem, sorry
<ogra_> ogasawara, its off since a while now :/
<ogasawara> ogra_: believe me, we know, we've been the one's shouting the loudest.  IS is getting it sorted.
<studio_> dobey, please gimme an example in the same way as the patch for the aquaris 5
 * ogra_ hugs ogasawara 
<davmor2> dobey: that I can help you with, /me hands dobey some of his co-dydramol
 * brunch875 splits ogra_
<davmor2> :D
<brunch875> damn damn get a hotel you two
<dobey> studio_: wtf are you talking about with aquaris 5?
<ogra_> brunch875, i doubt her husband would be happy about that :)
<dobey> davmor2: heh :)
<studio_> dobey, "you" do not like, when i post things twice ...
<dobey> studio_: nobody likes it
<studio_> so, read the history
<dobey> studio_: but nobody has any idea what you mean about aquaris 5 either
<dobey> *sigh*
<dobey> no, i'm going to go finish work on in-app purchases, so i can write an app specifically for you, which will have one consumable item for purchase, which i will require you to buy every time you want to ask me a question.
<ogra_> did you just invent paid IRC ?
<dobey> because at this rate, i could have retired already on those earnings
<ogra_> ted, !!!
<dobey> ogra_: sadly i am not the first to come up with the concept of paid support requests :)
<ogra_> ted, since when is that volume popup bug back ? every time i start some audio on my phone in vivid i get the popup ... that was gone for a while already ...
<popey> ooh, i get volume popup whenever i get a notification :(
<kenvandine> oh no, not that bug!
<ogra_> dobey, no, but with phone driven tokens for IRC support :)
<ted> ogra_, Hmm, that would be odd.
<ogra_> popey, but i'm not crazy, am i ? that was gone inbetween ...
<ted> ogra_, Which image?
<popey> latest vivid for me
<ogra_> ted, yesterdays vivid
<ted> Hmm, let me update, it was fixed.
<ted> I'd be surprised if any of the recent changes brought it back, they were just tiny fixes.
<dobey> ogra_: it reminds me a bit of the crazy custom irc client for getting support we did, way back in ximian days
<ogra_> hah
 * ogra_ pets his rupert on the shelf
<dobey> heh
<dobey> i have a bunch of monkeys in my office
<davmor2> I have pengiuns tigers bear and lynx in the office
<ogra_> a zoo
<ted> "This software was developed in front of a stuffed audience"
<ogra_> lol
<davmor2> ted: nice
<brunch875> Talking about sound notifications... there's something which has been bugging me lately A LOT.
<brunch875> Media ignores silent mode. Volume rockers only change media volume when media is playing.
<brunch875> And thus I can't play a video inside a library if the media sound is set to average+!
<ogra_> mpt, ^^^
<ogra_> brunch875, silent mode is supposed to only silence notifications ... anything you interactively start on the phone will still have sound
<brunch875> I know :( That's the problem
<ogra_> mpt, i think we need a better naming ...
<ogra_> "do not distrurb"
<davmor2> ogra_: NO RINGER MODE is too long though
<ted> Probably just having the menu item being "Alert Sounds"
<brunch875> there should be a "mute everything" like on the computer
<ogra_> just use pathwind
 * ogra_ ducks from things kenvandine could throw
<brunch875> hahaha
<davmor2> brunch875: no there shouldn't if you get a call you want to be able to talk on it even in silent mode
<brunch875> then... a "mute speaker" option?
<brunch875> the bottom one, I mean
<dobey> davmor2: you need a liger
<dobey> ogra_: "GTFO mode"
<ted> Ah, I bet I know what happened. (still waiting on update)
<davmor2> dobey: but the tion's are cuter
<ted> rsalveti, I think that your change to remove duplicate volumes needs to be adjusted to still record the reason.
<ted> rsalveti, Otherwise the reason stays as user input so it shows the notifications.
<ogra_> dobey, and an acronyms of the world handbook in the box ...
<brunch875> Imagine the following scenario: Me in a very boring class. Pull out phone and launch pathwind. Music blasts across the room. Haste to close the program to silence it.
<dobey> ogra_: or hungarian phrase books
<brunch875> At that point there was no way I could play my geyums :(
<dobey> "my hovercraft is full of eels"
<ogra_> my hovercraft is full of eels !
<ogra_> LOL
<ogra_> *snap*
<dobey> haha
<brunch875> since I couldn't mute media / lower it from blasting high
<ted> brunch875, So I think the bug is "no way to adjust multimedia volume when multimedia isn't playing"
<ted> brunch875, File that on ubuntu-ux
<brunch875> will do, will do! For now I'm using the dead-audio-jack trick
 * dobey drinks his lunch in his ximian pint glass
<Wellark> jgdx: sorry, I need to run, but.
<Wellark> jgdx: make sure that in the Modem interface
<Wellark> you set Powered to true
<Wellark> jgdx: and also Online()
<Wellark> * Online-property
<ted> ogra_, I can't get them to come up with 174
<ted> ogra_, Do you have steps?
<ogra_> ted, i use my lautfm player from the store
<ogra_> once i start a radio stream the thing pops up
<Wellark> jgdx: oh, you got it resolved already
<Wellark> goo
<Wellark> d
<Wellark> everybody, have a great weekend!
 * ted installs
<ogra_> but popey seems to see it for standard notifications
<ogra_> (i didnt have any)
<ted> Hmm, no, that doesn't pop notifications for me.
<ted> I'm now listening to Celtic Rock, something I didn't know existed yesterday.
<ogra_> LOL
<ogra_> yeah, there are some really weird stations in there
<cwayne> celtic rock is awesome
<Sleep_Walker> hi
<ted> Hah, Southern Rock Radio
<Sleep_Walker> I'm happy owner of new Aquaris E4.5
<ogra_> yay !
<brunch875> Wohoo!
<Sleep_Walker> I'm trying to set up sync with google, but it seems that virtual keyboard doesn't appear even when I have focus on edit object (now verification code)
<Sleep_Walker> is that known problem? is there known workaround?
<popey> i have seen that before
<brunch875> keep tappity tap tap
<brunch875> or close and reopen
<popey> if you swipe away to another app and back again it sometimes works
<Sleep_Walker> my guess (but not confirmed) is that it is related to suspend
<brunch875> it happened the same with my last android :|
<brunch875> I think it's a website issue
<dobey> switching away and back almost always works to fix it for me, with the messaging app
<Sleep_Walker> virtual keyboard is not part of website - it doesn't sound correct
<dobey> brunch875: i think it's a toolkit issue actually
<brunch875> it's bizzare, since it happened the same in my android
<brunch875> so I assumed it was a website issue
<dobey> the keyboard is probably also a separate process on android, and it's just a hard to debug/fix issue, which may be common across systems when the implementation is such that the keyboard is a separate process :)
<bzoltan_> dobey: tell me more about that hungarian phrase book please :)
<dobey> bzoltan_: lol
<ted> popey, ogra_, so my suspicion is that this is the issue, but since I can't recreate it's going to be hard to prove. Can one of you try the deb when Jenkins builds it? https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/indicator-sound/deduplicate-with-reason/+merge/256698
<dobey> bzoltan_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAQJHHf3i1o
<ogra_> ted, if i'm still active when jenkins does that :)
<ogra_> ted, but yeah, latest on the weekend at some point
<Myself5> dobey, as you look like you can help me
<dobey> i probably can't :)
<ogra_> Myself5, i think thats an old photo though
<Myself5> is patching the defconfig with "check-config <defconfig file> -w" enough?
<Myself5> or do I need to apply some other patches to the kernel defconfig too
<dobey> i have no idea if that will work in the context of the mtk build system, as 'make menuconfig' doesn't work there
<Myself5> I'm doing a initial bringup for the Xperia Z2 and Z3 based off the Sony AOSP device trees
<dobey> and i've not built a kernel for a phone, nor done a port, myself
<Myself5> both Snapdragon 801 Devices ;)
<ogra_> well, AOSP is definitely a bit more sane then an mtk tree :)
<Myself5> why do I think I use a mtk device :D
<ogra_> Myself5, the check-config script is from janimo, he is on vacation this week though ...
<ogra_> probably one of the other porters in here can help you
<dobey> Myself5: i didn't know if you were asking about the bq kernel or not, until you stated you were doing a port 3 comments later :)
<Myself5> hehe sorry for that :D
<bzoltan_> dobey:  ohh man, you just saved the week of an innocent Hungarian enginer :D
<Myself5> ogra_, any names of the other porters :P ? So I can tag them :D ?
<ogra_> Myself5, well, mariogrip is one for example ... but i think he only started with the kernel side of things
<Myself5>  Made 246 fixes.
<Myself5> lol
<dobey> bzoltan_: haha
<rsalveti> ted: but the volume set call wasn't storing the reason
<rsalveti> ted: oh, it was saving everything
<rsalveti> ted: indeed, my bad, will fix it
<ted> rsalveti, I have a patch above that i think will work, but I'm not able to recreate the bug.
<rsalveti> ted: who reproduced it, davmor2?
<rsalveti> ted: guess that would happen if the multimedia volume is different than the alert one
<ted> rsalveti, Hopefully Jenkins will have a deb soon: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/indicator-sound/deduplicate-with-reason/+merge/256698
<ted> rsalveti, ogra and popey
<ted> rsalveti, Yeah, I tried that, that was my guess too.
<ted> rsalveti, Trying to reproduced forced me to listen to German radio, I recommend being careful the questions you ask :-)
<rsalveti> change looks good, guess we can just ask them to test the deb
<Se7>  /me exited updating now :))
<Se7> lol
<popey> ted: can you pm me on telegram as a test?
<brunch875> Is it possible to launch a program from the terminal?
<brunch875> I mean... something like the file explorer
<Se7> still no data source available in the circle :(
<Sleep_Walker> external keyboard works - neat
<brunch875> external keyboard?
<brunch875> you mean a bluetooth keyboard?
<Sleep_Walker> nope, USB one
<brunch875> :o !
<Sleep_Walker> it is the cheap chinese for tablets
<brunch875> I had no idea such things existed
<Se7> can t share a pics on bluethoot?
<dobey> Se7: obex is not yet supported really
<rsalveti> obex itself is supported (that's how we chance contacts on a car), we just don't have client support yet in order to send files
<rsalveti> *change
<rsalveti> which will happen at some point
<dobey> hmm, nobody makes a decent usb mini keyboard for the nexus 5 it seems :-/
<popey> ted: can't reproduce that bug now!
<Myself5> popey ! :D
<Myself5> havnt seen you in a long time :D
<popey> helo
<Myself5> do you have an Idea why Ubuntu refuses to read a Android.mk in a subdirectory while the same setup works perfectly fine in OmniROM?
 * Myself5 still tries to port Ubuntu to the Z2 and Z3 :
<Myself5> D
<Sleep_Walker> Xperias?
<Myself5> yes Sleep_Walker
<davmor2> rsalveti, popey: I reporduced it \o/
<rsalveti> ted: do you have the new deb in hands?
<davmor2> rsalveti: I just set music to full volume and hit play
<davmor2> rsalveti: easily reproduced on mvsm too
<studio_> ehm, someone here is using the bq 4.5 with the latest update?
<dobey> i'm sure many people are
<studio_> if yes, how long does a reboot take?
 * popey times it
<studio_> i am sure, it was shorter before the update
<popey> 3.2.1.. pressed restart now
<popey> booted
<popey> so just over a minute
<Sleep_Walker> ~52 seconds
<studio_> popey, do you have a "flashing screen" on reboot?
<popey> no
<studio_> hmm ...
<popey> i have lost zero % battery in 8 hours.
<dobey> popey: lies
<studio_> "bq screen" is flashing on my device
<davmor2> popey: it's possibly a tiny % but I doubt it is 0
<popey>                      
<popey>                #
<popey>  mmmmm   mmm   # mm
<popey>  # # #  #"  #  #"  #
<popey>  # # #  #""""  #   #
<popey>  # # #  "#mm"  #   #
<Sleep_Walker> popey: isn't it more probable that you stopped reading real values? ;b
<popey>                      
<popey>                      
<popey> rounding error
<grubproblems> could anyone help with grub issues? sorry i know it's not touch but i tried asking in the main channel and it's way too busy
<grubproblems> also recently got to use touch, props to the team, lost the phone i had it on unfortunately but it was awesome
<studio_> popey, what channel are you using on your bq?
<davmor2> studio_: he was one of the first on 21
<popey> the one it ships from the factory with
<studio_> 21 is rtm right?
<studio_> i am on vivid right now
<popey> i have one phone on factory shipped channel and one on vivid
<studio_> is your vivid phone "blinking" on restart?
 * popey tries
<studio_> maybe 37 times
<grubproblems> i wish i still had my bq -_-
<popey> no, no blinking
<davmor2> studio_: no blinking here either
<studio_> yes 37 times. tht is not normal !
<dobey> maybe you broke your phone
 * ted is back
<studio_> no, i fashed from r21 to ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed
<ted> Not sure why that deb isn't building... Jenkins...
<studio_> maybe i should switch back?
<popey> 21?
<popey> why 21?
<popey> that seems wrong.
<dobey> becasue it's blackjack
<popey> I'm on ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed 187
<studio_> 21 was latest on ubuntu-touch/stable/bq-aquaris.en
<popey> so 21 seems very old
<popey> wait
<davmor2> dobey: man now I want to eat black jacks
<popey> you're not on ubuntu-touch/stable/bq-aquaris.en
<popey> you're on ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed you said
<davmor2> popey: rtm 21
<popey> no...
<popey> thats not what he said
<davmor2> popey: that's what he meant not what he said
<popey> lets see
<studio_> is is same as ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09
<popey> system-image-cli --info
<popey> run that
<popey> what does it say?
<studio_> i am on the wrong channel?
<dobey> popey: he was on rtm 21, then switch to devel-proposed
<studio_> was
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10840127/ is what I'm on
<popey> studio_: what does yours say?
<elopio> ping mvo: are you the maintainer of click? I'm getting this weird error, not sure what to do about it
<elopio> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10839516/
<studio_> it is ubuntu-touch/vivid-proposed, but i am now on ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed
<studio_> should i change?
<dobey> devel-proposed is just an alias
<popey> studio_: can you just please paste the output?
<popey> channel: ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed
<popey> alias: ubuntu-touch/vivid-proposed
<popey> same things
<studio_> output from "system-image-cli -i"?
<popey> yes
<studio_> here?
<popey> a pastebin
<studio_> wait
<studio_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10840166/
<popey> so we're on the same thing then
<studio_> but a reboot is "flashing" the bq screen
<popey> I wonder what firmware you have
<davmor2> popey: remember that studio_ is on an android version not an ubuntu phone
<popey> what does this command return...
<popey> yes, I know
<popey> cat /sys/devices/platform/mtk-tpd/chipinfo
<studio_> i made "ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed"
<studio_> ID:0x0 VER:0x40 IC:ft5336 VENDOR:ckt (dc)
<dobey> well, the bq screen is the bootloader right? and that's entirely outside the scope of ubuntu itself no? ubuntu-device-flash doesn't replace the bootloader too
<studio_> davmor2, please do not make users confused, bq E4.5 is allways the same
<dobey> studio_: no, they aren't the same. you're the only one causing any confusion here.
<studio_> dobey, E4.5 is e4.5
<studio_> if you feel free, you can flash android on your dvice
<dobey> no. e4.5 android and e4.5 ubuntu are not the same. they are close, but not the same
<studio_> feel free
<studio_> if you do not trust i'll pay you the 170 euro
<davmor2> studio_: we work at canonical we are telling you they are different! just because you can install software from canonical or google on it doesn't make the hardware the same
<dobey> ubuntu on the e4.5 ubuntu edition is supported by bq. installing ubuntu on the e4.5 android is an "at your own risk" regarding bq's support (as you've said so yourself several times)
<studio_> davmor2, have you ever made an "real" backup from your flash?
<dobey> if you do not trust, then go ask bq for support :)
<davmor2> studio_: yes thanks
<studio_> no, not thanks, have you?
<davmor2> studio_: yes thanks
<studio_> so, you know how to use the mtk-tools.
<dobey> if you want to buy me a bq phone though, feel free. just have it shipped to the canonical office in UK
<dobey> lol
<davmor2> studio_: I do for what I need, but that's not how I backup
<studio_> davmor2, for normal users it is very important how to make a complete backup. maybe for you it is just a joke, but "i" think it is important.
 * popey backs up his phone every 6 hours
<davmor2> studio_: and when there is a proper backup solution it will be made public, but an unstable hack is not what you give out to people
<studio_> to make a backup via mtk-tools is not an "unstable hack"
<davmor2> studio_: did you not read  but that's not how I backup
<davmor2> studio_: mtk-tools is designed for the board and flashing images mostly it is not how you would backup android you would use some backup tool
<studio_> davmor2, why you talk about backup "android"? it is to backup your whole flash.
<dobey> why are you talking about mtk-tools at all?
<studio_> dobey, because it is easy
<dobey> it is irrelevant
<dobey> nobody who purchased an e4.5 ubuntu edition needs to use them
<davmor2> studio_: mtk-tools is not a backup tool. it is a factory tool for flashing and reflashing.  You use a tool similar to platinum backup on android to backup you ubuntu data but that doesn't exist yet
<dobey> the only reason you needed to use them is because you bought the android version of the phone early, to install ubuntu on, instead of waiting for the phone to be released
<mvo> elopio: this looks like your working directory is somehow not accessible from schroot, is there is anything special about it?
<elopio> mvo: not that I know of. But after doing this, my home directory is umounted.
<elopio> something in the middle makes it not accessible.
<mvo> elopio: oh, your entire homedir? is it on a ecryptfs?
<elopio> mvo: it is not.
<mvo> elopio: so its just a seperate mount point?
<dobey> wow, that is crazy
<elopio> mvo: yes.
<studio_> dobey, you still do not or want to understand, i am on the latest ubuntu-touch channel for the bq e4.5, but there are still missing things to use ubuntu-touch for a normal, daily use ... if you show me your scatter.txt, that i can comfirm i am on a different version would be nice.Ã¶
<davmor2> studio_: we don't have scatter.txt we just flash the phone using the ubuntu-device-flash tool
<dobey> well your phone is definitely different from mine. i have a nexus 5. and a nexus 4. but even if i had an e4.5 ubuntu edition, and the contents of some files were exactly the same, it does not mean there are not subtle differences in the hardware
<studio_> dobey, and you re wrong, check youtube for backup mtk-tools
<dobey> studio_: the one refusing to understand anything here, is you.
<studio_> dobey, i am not your enemy, why you do not try to understand how mtk-tools are working?
<dobey> i know how mtk-tools work. i wasn't arguing how they work. i was telling you to get to a bloody point already.
<davmor2> studio_: mtk-tools is an image manipulation tool not a backup tool.  Yes it can back up the entire image but that is not a backup tool, it's effectively dd.  A backup tool only snapshot the data you care about not the base image.
<studio_> davmor2, it is not a "manipulation tool" it made a backup or copy a new image direct to the flash and its partitions
<dobey> oh ffs
<davmor2> studio_: So it manipulate images like dd.  I repeat it is not a backup tool!  It it an imaging tool
<dobey> studio_: stop arguing about the bloody mtk-tools
<dobey> davmor2: you're not helping :)
<studio_> dd is dump
<davmor2> dobey: hahaha
<brunch875> haha omg you guy
<brunch875> +s
<studio_> dd do not need a scatter-file
<dobey> it doesn't bloody matter what mtk-tools is
 * brunch875 grabs some popcorn
<dobey> the only thing it is in this channel, is irrelevant
<dobey> it is not how you flash ubuntu onto a device
<dobey> this isn't #mediatek
<studio_> dobey, maybe it is not #mediatek, but it helps users on #ubuntu-touch
<dobey> no, it does not
<studio_> why not?
<dobey> because it is a completley unnecessary tool for using ubuntu
<studio_> this is your mind
<brunch875> studio_ don't you like ubuntu-device-flash?
<dobey> the only reason it would be relevant is if someone else was asking about how to go about flashing an android e4.5 with ubuntu
<dobey> nobody is asking about that
<dobey> you are going on and on about "backing up" your device with it.
<dobey> just stop
<studio_> brunch875, have you tried to flash other firmware with the mtk-tools on your device?
<dobey> k1l: ^^ please? this is just getting silly
<brunch875> Most I've ever "flashed" was dragging a .zip to an android and hitting "update" on clockworkmod
<brunch875> not even ubuntu :p
<dobey> studio_: no, nobody wants to flash other firmware on their ubuntu devices
<studio_> dobey, come on ...
<studio_> sure?
<dobey> studio_: no, stop. if you have something to talk about, then talk about something on topic, and stop going on and on about mtk-tools
<dobey> i'm sure if anybody cares to do so, they will ask a relevant question about how to do it
<dobey> and that question should probably be asked in a relevant android forum or to bq support perhaps, because it is not a necessary thing to use mtk-tools with ubuntu
<studio_> it is this channel, when other users asked, what happend, when they flash back to android?
<dobey> nobody flashed back to android because the ubuntu phone doesn't come with android, so you can't flash back to android
<dobey> how to install android on a phone is not the topic of this channel
<studio_> dobey, open your mind: http://www.bq.com/gb/downloads-aquaris-e4-5.html
<brunch875> studio_ , you should try seeking help around  the android channels
<brunch875> you can pretty much treat the e4.5 ubuntu edition as the e4.5 android edition, right?
<dobey> studio_: if you want help with android, find an android channel. this isn't an android channel.
<studio_> brunch875, i am allways changing between UT and Android!
<dobey> oh; popey and ogra have chanop permissions, and mhall119 too. can one of you do something about this please?
<popey> feel free not to engage
<studio_> dobey, i try to help with UT, maybe you do not see :(
<mhall119> studio_: we are not Android experts in here, we can help you install Ubuntu or use Ubuntu on your device, but we can't do the same for Android
<mhall119> If you need help installing or running Android, then as dobey says you will be able to find that on an Android related channel or forum
<studio_> mhall119, i have the feeling i am talking to a wall :( Sure i can flash back to android but missing things here in the forum are pure ignored ...
<brunch875> studio_: don't be too hard on yourself... it's not as hostile as it seems
<studio_> "hostile" is a nice keyword ...
<mhall119> studio_: you're just asking the wrong people, we're Ubuntu folks, not Android folks, Ubuntu is what we know and what we support.
<dobey> brunch875: he's the hostile one
<mhall119> alright, let's not escalate things
<studio_> dobey, you are wrong !
<mhall119> this is simply not the best place to get the answers you're looking for, that's all
<brunch875> I'm sure this is all just friction
<mhall119> studio_: I'm sorry we can't help you with this task
<dobey> brunch875: brake pads get hot and wear down after having the same friction constantly repeated over and over again
<studio_> dobey, i do not know how to translate " Hochmut kommt vor dem Fall", but you are nearby ...
<mhall119> ok, no more friction, what's done is done, let's leave it at that
<mhall119> studio_: if you have questions or need help with Ubuntu, you're welcome to come back here to ask them, otherwise I wish you the best of luck with Android
<studio_> mhall119, my questions are always about ut and not android.
<mhall119> studio_: what was the question then?
<studio_> mhall119, repetitions are not liked here ...
<brunch875> it's cool, ask away
<brunch875> I missed the question anyway
<mhall119> studio_: PM me then
 * brunch875 is off to dinner!
<dobey> repeating a question after a meaningful amount of time, which has not actually been answered, is fine. what is not appreciated is asking the same thing over and over, particularly after it's been answered multiple times already.
<studio_> dobey, i understood, you do not have a solution ...
<Sleep_Walker> what is the root password on aquaris e4.5?
<Sleep_Walker> is there some ssh server available?
<Sleep_Walker> is there some synergy-like application?
<Dragonkeeper> pin code
<cwayne> Sleep_Walker, it's whatever you set as your pincode
<cwayne> or passphrase
<Sleep_Walker> hm, I don't use pincode :(
<Dragonkeeper> make 1
<cwayne> then you cant get adb access anyway
<Sleep_Walker> you have some special PAM module for that? :)
<Dragonkeeper> adb is debug console over usb
<Sleep_Walker> I know adb from android
<Dragonkeeper> its the same thing
 * Dragonkeeper has his gps finally working xD
<Sleep_Walker> ah
<Sleep_Walker> I have no SIM plugged yet
<Sleep_Walker> I can't have PIN anyway
<dobey> Sleep_Walker: we have to still use adb for developer mode
<dobey> Sleep_Walker: not a SIM PIN. you need the unlock screen PIN/pasword
<dobey> Sleep_Walker: that is the password you use for sudo
<Sleep_Walker> I see!
<dobey> though, why do you need root anyway?
<Sleep_Walker> to explore internals of course! >:)
<dobey> you shouldn't make the system writable and install packages, as it can break things pretty fast if you do.
<Sleep_Walker> I'd like to install static dropbear
<dobey> if you enable developer mode, you can connect to the phone using ssh over usb with "phablet-shell" command on ubuntu
<Sleep_Walker> is there some recovery mode?
<genii> Hm
<Dragonkeeper> sudo make me-a-sandwich
 * Dragonkeeper cant get his sandwich out of the dvd drive
<brunch875> Ooooh so THAT was the use for dvd drives
<Dragonkeeper> brunch875: yes , that and symlinking "cupholder" to the "eject" command
<brunch875> by the way, cheers on OTA3. By now my phone would have no battery left but it stays at 63%
 * Dragonkeeper didnt wipe, just changed over channel to devel  on bq phone, now he has a duplicate icon of here maps ;/
<Dragonkeeper> is there a project ongoing for actual navigation , not just the directions ?
<Sleep_Walker> https://youtu.be/_BRv9wGf5pk >:D
<Sleep_Walker> (IOW thanks :)
<Sleep_Walker> omg, it's using systemd
<dobey> Dragonkeeper: it requires background processing, or i'm sure it would have been done already.
<Dragonkeeper> dobey: how so ?
<dobey> Sleep_Walker: the phone isn't really yet, there are just a few systemd things installed, but upstart is still used there.
<dobey> Dragonkeeper: well, apps can't process while they are in the background or the screen is off, so it wouldn't be possible for them to give you turn by turn announcements currently
<dobey> well, unless you changed the settings to never turn the screen off, and ensured that app was in the foreground
<Dragonkeeper> dobey: yeah i understand that , i assumed people kept the screen always on anyway as turn by turn is abit longwinded with useless information
<dobey> the tbt in my truck isn't that bad usually. the maps in it are a bit dated though, and i don't generally use tbt unless i really need to
<Sleep_Walker> ah, too bad, terminal application doesn't seem to take USB keyboard input :(
<Dragonkeeper> Sleep_Walker: yes it does
<dobey> Sleep_Walker: it should, but otg is not really fully supported yet, so some keyboards might just not work i guess
<Sleep_Walker> strange
<Dragonkeeper> there should be extra information on the updates list so i know what the update is for , instead of it just saying ubuntu
<Dragonkeeper> Sleep_Walker: also some might require extra power added
<Sleep_Walker> either I have bad contact or it is working randomly, sorry for the noise
<Sleep_Walker> I'm just too excited with new toy :)
<Dragonkeeper> Sleep_Walker: ikr, i love the bq phone :P
<Sleep_Walker> hm, ssh is running, but I need to upload my pubkey first...
<Sleep_Walker> it's really ready for use
<Dragonkeeper> Sleep_Walker: u can use the ubuntu sdk to set that up automaticly
<dobey> Dragonkeeper: there's no ssh over network by default, only over usb
<Sleep_Walker> dobey: but editing sshd_config should be sufficient to change it, right?
<Dragonkeeper> dobey: ah right , didnt know that , i just use adb or the terminal on device
<dobey> Sleep_Walker: i guess, if you really want to open a hole on your phone for people to attack :)
<Sleep_Walker> dobey: I have opened hole in every my device clever enough to run secure shell server
<Sleep_Walker> it doesn't seem to be different case from that, does it?
<dobey> different code from what?
<dobey> oh, case
<dobey> man i guess i am getting tired already
<dobey> well, are all those devices publicly exposed on a 3g network?
<Dragonkeeper> dobey: well they will all have ips but dont think you can scan the network like your can with a wireless lan
<dobey> sure you can
<Sleep_Walker> I think the answer doesn't matter - they are attached to Internet (mostly with public IP addresses)
<Dragonkeeper> sure but in that case its same as having router with open ssh port to your ubuntu machine
<Sleep_Walker> yes
<Dragonkeeper> so use a decent passphrase instead of a pin
<Sleep_Walker> I'm using pubkey authetication
<dobey> why would you een enable password auth for ssh?
<Dragonkeeper> i use password auth on some machines, as i access them alot from random spots/devices dobey  but i wouldnt use ssh server on a phone
<Robin_> www.UbuntuFun.de - der deutsche Ubuntu Blog
<nothingspecial> studio_: how did you fix the issue ?
<nothingspecial> studio_: Power and VOL down?
<brunch875> which issue?
<nothingspecial> that I can't get out of a boot loop on my bq brunch875
<brunch875> oooh yeah...
<brunch875> I read you earlier this morning
<nothingspecial> yeah
<nothingspecial> brunch875: studio_ said something 9 hours ago, I'm hoping s/he has a highlight log
<Robin_> Der deutsche Ubuntu Blog. Alles zu deinem Ubuntu Desktop & Ubuntu Phone - www.UbuntuFun.de
<studio__> nothingspecial, sorry. i re-flashed my device with the mtk-tools
<studio__> nothingspecial, how many times did you get the "flashing screen"?
<studio__> how do i "erase" on the app-scope missing apps from the version in installed before?
<studio__> app-scope try to show apps which are not installed anymore ...
<cwayne> studio__, pull down to refresh
<studio__> not working, tried that
<studio__> cwayne, another solution?
<cwayne> studio__, i don't know of any, sorry
<studio__> ok
<studio__> hmm, that makes no fun. after installing ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed my bq is flasing 37 times to boot into normal mode :(
<studio__> last chance "ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/rc/bq-aquaris.en"
<studio__> if that is also not working i am going back to android
<studio__> ok, r22 is working after a reboot on the bq e4.5, so the problem is the ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed !!!
#ubuntu-touch 2015-04-18
<lotuspsychje> https://twitter.com/ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> alot of cool news again :p
<wayne_> hi everyone.  how do I back up my ubuntu phone before attempting re-flash? On desktop I just basically save my home directory but how with mobile? Thanks!
<wayne_> Like I don't want to lose mjy contacts and what have you.
<lotuspsychje> wayne_: copy contacts to your sim
<lotuspsychje> wayne_: or install the phablets tools on your ubuntu pc, and backup your phone
<lotuspsychje> wayne_: check topic install url for phablet tools
<wayne_> lotuspsychje: thanks a lot. I have phablet tools.  Didn't know I can use that
<wayne_> lotuspsychje: also didn't know I can copy to sim. I will try to figure that out.
<lotuspsychje> wayne_: didnt test myself
<lotuspsychje> but with pahblet tools you can copy stuff for sure
<wayne_> lotuspsychje: ok.
<wayne_> lotuspsychje: you would think there would be a simple 'backup phone' button on the main setting screen that prompts you to insert USB.. or perhaps ubuntu one connection or owncloud...
<wayne_> lotuspsychje: i think this might be best. I remember some dudes talkinga bout sync revolution or evolution or something.  this link seems to have something http://askubuntu.com/questions/365675/backup-export-contacts-from-ubuntu-touch-official-launch-r100-ubuntu-13-10-a
<wayne_> lotuspsychje: thanks for your help gotta drop out and have a good night or morning or wherever you are. ;)
<mtrh> hi
<bqphone> good morning
<bqphone> anyone here for quick help?
<Sleep_Walker> just ask and if anyone (awake) knows  he'll answer
<bqphone> Well first question how to remove a location from the weather app
<bqphone> 2nd quesion i am failing to install pidgin and whatsapp, most guides are made for yowsup and now there is yowsup 2 << is there an easy way to get whatsapp or better wait till whatsapp make app for ubuntu phone?
<DanChapman> bqphone: in "Edit locations" swipe the location to the right to delete it. And there is currently no app (that i know of) for whatsapp and I believe they don't like and will block users who use 3rdparty apps so it would be best  to wait for whatsapp to make an app for ubuntu
<bqphone> location thing works, thanks mate
<DanChapman> np
<bqphone> any other place where i can see latest apps made for ubuntu phone?
<DanChapman> bqphone: uappexplorer.com/ is a good place you can sort by all different criteria
<Sleep_Walker> I don't know WhatsApp, but there is some web client - this could be way to go for you
<bqphone> cheers and have a good day both of you
<knightwise> morning
<guideX> does anyone know when I can get ubuntu phone in the us
<knightwise> morning
<knightwise> anyone tried the calendar app yet ?
<dadexix86> good morning to all! bq device, r21 . I noticed a strange behaviour about the battery. It drains really quick in the beginning, going from 100% to around 80% in the first hour and then it drains more slowly. is it a known behaviour? if not, do you think that I should report a bug?
<knightwise> ive installed it and marked both of my google caendars to sync but .... they dont sync
<dadexix86> knightwise, I was using it daily, before the sync with google broke
<knightwise> ah good to hear i'm not the only one
<knightwise> i hope they fix it quickly
<knightwise> is there also something like a native mail app that supports google mail ?
<knightwise> or just the webapps
<dadexix86> knightwise, it is bug #1442931
<ubot5> bug 1442931 in sync-monitor (Ubuntu) "sync with google calendar not working" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1442931
<dadexix86> knightwise, for the mail app, I think that Dekko is the solution for you ;)
<knightwise> ok , since i'm not a developer, all i can do is wait for the update :)
<knightwise> dekke ?
<knightwise> dekkO :) i'm gonna check that out , thanx dadexix86
<dadexix86> knightwise, not really, you can mark the bug as affecting you
<knightwise> ah dadexix86 that is an idea
<knightwise> i never thought the "me too" posts were helpfull
<knightwise> there :)
<dadexix86> well, it helps raising the "heat" of the bug... (4 pts per user)
<knightwise> I didn't know that actually. I always thought filing bugs was more for the devs.. i'm just a plain user :)
<Sleep_Walker> what is the reason user are discouraged to install native packages through apt?
<dadexix86> knightwise, there is no "plain user", we are all part of the same community ;) and if you can help in any way, then your help surely it is appreciated even if it is just a click ;)
<knightwise> thats true.
<knightwise> browsing forums I hated the "me too" posts but when it comes to a bugfix the actually have value
<Sleep_Walker> well, clever forums separate weight into less disturbing contributions :b
<knightwise> True.
<knightwise> ok , so I have my phone, text, messaging (telegram) and mail working
<dadexix86> knightwise, good! :D
<knightwise> contacts are ok too. so all I need is a working calendar sync and the phone is good to go for daily use :)
<knightwise> whatever i don't have i can bridge with the webapps so far
<knightwise> but when the calendar issue gets fixed the "native" apps can start to carry my daily chores
<knightwise> I love to experiment with it .. but I also run a company so .. stuff has to work you knw...
<dadexix86> I ask again, maybe some of the new connected guys know the answer: I noticed a strange behaviour about the battery. It drains really quick in the beginning, going from 100% to around 80% in the first hour and then it drains more slowly. is it a known behaviour? if not, do you think that I should report a bug?
<Giordano> salve, posso essporre il mio problema, ho smartphone acquarius 4.5 ubuntu ontouh vorrei sincronizarlo con nautilus, come devo fare? grazie
<Giordano> hi, I can essporre my problem , I would like smartphones acquarius 4.5 ubuntu ontouh sincronizarlo with nautilus , how should I do ? thanks
<Sleep_Walker> dadexix86: reporting bug won't hurt - but 1] this depends on your device and its drivers 2] you may have HW issue and 3] if your battery is not clever, fix may be just some better function for reporting percent value of capacity (but it really depends on 1] and 2])
<Sleep_Walker> but maybe some developers or at least residents of this channel can give you better answer
<Dragonkeeper> Sleep_Walker: battery can also decell so also depends on the age of the device
<Sleep_Walker> exactly
<Giordano> hi, I can essporre my problem , I would like smartphones acquarius 4.5 ubuntu ontouh sincronizarlo with nautilus , how should I do ? thanks
<bqphone> hello there, i have installed dekko and gmail work greay, i have tried to add my hotmail to outlook.com option and its not accepting it, is that a bug or it doesnt accept hotmail?
<DanChapman> bqphone: does hotmail use host address imap-mail.outlook.com?
<bqphone> no idea to be honest
<DanChapman> You could try going through the "Other account" option that will run our autodiscovery which should fetch the correct info
<DanChapman> If it can't be found you will need to enter it manually
<bqphone> i have tried but it gives same result
<bqphone> how to add it manually?
<bqphone> i normaly open my hotmail using outlook.com on my desktop
<DanChapman> The "Other account" option if it can't find the correct settings it should expand to allow you to add the required values. Do you just see the red X next to username & password
<bqphone> yea only x near username and pass nothing else
<DanChapman> and does it not expand to allow you to input the values manually?
<mokmeister> Would anyone here know if it is possible to put ubuntu touch onto a nabi 2 tablet?
<bqphone> nop it doesnt expend
<DanChapman> Going through the "Outlook" option will not expand as they have preset values
<bqphone> also other doesn't expand
<DanChapman> bqphone: hmm that sounds like a bug. Try putting a random character in each field and hit save. That should force it to expand
<bqphone> not working
 * Dragonkeeper stares at DanChapman, waiting for pop3 support. xD
<DanChapman> Dragonkeeper: patches welcome :-p
<bqphone> how to report it as a bug?
<Dragonkeeper> :)
<DanChapman> bqphone: what account type option is that using? "Other account"??  It can't not expand,  did you try scrolling up after hitting save?
<DanChapman> bqphone: https://bugs.launchpad.net/dekko/+filebug
 * DanChapman can't wait for all accounts to be handled in online accounts.
 * Dragonkeeper can
<bqphone> i did restart the telephone, now i got other options so i added imap.mail.outlook.com, i keep port 143?
<bqphone> i can only see half port field so the number there is no clear
<Dragonkeeper> iirc 143 is non encrypted port for imap  so id use 993
<DanChapman> bqphone: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/outlook/send-receive-from-app# should be the settings
<bqphone> did add imap and 993 and encryption and still not working, i dont see field for outgoing server and port though
<DanChapman> Keep scrolling up to get the outgoing server and port, it's all on one page
<dadexix86> Giordano, if you want localized support it is better to go to a localized channel - se vuoi supporto in italiano vieni su #ubuntu-it
<DanChapman> bqphone: also do you have 2 step verification setup on your hotmail account?
<DanChapman> if so you may need to get an app specific password from https://account.live.com/Proofs/AppPassword
<dadexix86> Dragonkeeper, the device is the bq, so pretty recent ;) Sleep_Walker do you know hot to investigate whether it is an hardware problem? I guess it is actually just the 3rd case of your answer (not clever scaling of the capacity)
<Dragonkeeper> dadexix86: ah ok ive not noticed that bug
<ogra_> dadexix86, are you on the latest image already ? (r21 ?)
<dadexix86> Dragonkeeper, to me it happens only when on wifi. Charge it to 100% with wi-fi on, then remove the plug then in less than one hour your battery goes down and the "stabilizes" around 80% for some time. The graph looks like a descending parabola
<Sleep_Walker> dadexix86: I have the device since yesterday, but it seems to be quite clever HW
<dadexix86> ogra_, yes I am, rebooted also a couple of times after the update reboot.
<Sleep_Walker> dadexix86: how many times have you fully charged the device?
<ogra_> try checki0ng with top inteh terminal if there is some runaway process that eats your power
<bqphone> thx DanChapman the link for apppassword fixed the problem
<dadexix86> ogra_, nothing like that now (but I am already at around 80%, should I charge it and try?)
<Dragonkeeper> dadexix86: mines almost charged, been  charging with wifi on this morning , i got work a bit later so if i notice it ill buzz u let u know  i am on r56 though
<bqphone> i get now socket problem for imap-mail.outlook.com:993 the remote host closed the connection
<bqphone> does gmail use 993 also?
<Sleep_Walker> "Telegram mesages are heavily encrypted and can self-destruct" :D
<DanChapman> bqphone: yeah blame m$ for that one they happily close the connection every 60 seconds. I have a work around in trunk, so it will be in the next update
<bqphone> thats fine Dan the app looks great for gmail and for sure i can wait for the update :)
<bqphone> last question but about something else, when i slide from right to left i see all the apps/webapps i opened. My question is how to close an open app/webapp ?
<dadexix86> bqphone, swipe up/down, it is similar to android, but there you have to swipe right/left
<ricsipontaz> Hi! Somebody can tell me where can I translate the Today scope?
<popey> ricsipontaz: http://launchapd.net/today-scope file a bug that it's not translatable maybe?
<ricsipontaz> popey: It is translated (to hungarian), but not complete.And If am right, It didn't translated by the community.
<popey> hmm
<ricsipontaz> NearBy scope too.
<lotuspsychje> ricsipontaz: wich device are you on mate?
<ricsipontaz> lotuspsychje: the bq
<popey> ricsipontaz: I would file a bug though, that it's not community translatable
<ricsipontaz> popey: Okay I'll do it. Thanks
<popey> thank you
<lotuspsychje> maybe the #ubuntu-hr community could also help popey ?
<popey> sure
<lotuspsychje> maybe someone owns a phone there
<popey> once it's enabled for translations
<popey> we have some hungarian people working for us too
<lotuspsychje> nice
<Dragonkeeper> just out of curiosity , where is the changelog for bq phone ubuntu updates ?
<tnozyrox> hi, news about video calling with ubuntu-phone?
<popey> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg12158.html links to some changed Dragonkeeper
<lotuspsychje> tnozyrox: there is telegram, they might do video calls in the future, bit not now
<Dragonkeeper> ty
<ricsipontaz> popey: I translating Ubuntu and the phone too to hungarian, so it's not a problem. But I can't translate it, because it translated by someon else, and community can't access this translations to help with it.
<dadexix86> ogra_, I guess that there is indeed some problem with the battery. upower says that energy, energy-full, energy-full-desing, energy-rate are all 0W. but then shows percentage: 74%
<ogra_> thats fine ... it does that on all devices
<tnozyrox> video calling and sirius are very important ...no Moda ... and made in Ubuntu :)
<ricsipontaz> popey: I filled a bug.
<ogra_> (it tries to read these values from desktop interfaces that dont exist)
<lotuspsychje> tnozyrox: im sure someone will bring out an app someday
<dadexix86> ogra_, ok I didn't know :)
<Dragonkeeper> video calling could be done over wifi if someone ported tox and its qml client ... :D
<ogra_> or just a simple webrtc server
<ogra_> but for that the browser needs to get the webrtc support finished
<popey> thanks ricsipontaz
<lotuspsychje> did firefox have plans to integrate video calling in browser?
<ogra_> they already have it
 * Dragonkeeper should have been at work 75 mins ago , so he thinks he should get ready before his boss checks to see where he is
<lotuspsychje> if we all send a mail to telegram crew, they might do some video calling :p
<popey> they're well aware
<popey> also
<popey> it's a community app - anyone can contribute
<lotuspsychje> oh, so its waiting until someone makes it hapen then
<ogra_> send patches ;)
<Dragonkeeper> o/
<tnozyrox> thanks and good day to all :D
<froyo> Hi
<froyo> Is there anyone?
<froyo> Hello :(
<popey> !ask
<ubot5> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<froyo> !ask
<popey> froyo: what's your question?
<Trigo> hi
<Trigo> hello :(, how can I develop apps for ubuntu touch?
<Trigo> !patience
<ubot5> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<ahayzen> Trigo, i would start by reading this https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/ and for app development #ubuntu-app-devel is a good channel to ask in
<Trigo> errm...without the physical device?
<ahayzen> Trigo, you can use an emulator or run the apps in a window on the desktop
<ahayzen> Trigo, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/sdk/tutorials/using-the-ubuntu-emulator/
<Trigo> I tried that, but can I ran the apps without the emulator? The emulator is so big.
<ahayzen> yeah most of them will run fine on the desktop
<ahayzen> just things like confinement aren't currently enforced
<bqphone> using facebook app, it seems i cant watch videos there, is there a way to do so?
<Trigo> So ahayzen, I don't need to set up emulator to run apps in the SDK? If yes, that would be great!
<ahayzen> Trigo, yeah you can just run them from the SDK
<Trigo> and...about other thing...you can package your app with GUI's right?
<Trigo> because I'm not good with at packaging.
<ahayzen> yeah you can
<ahayzen> Trigo, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/sdk/tutorials/running-apps-from-the-sdk/ go to the bottom the section "What are the benefits/caveats of each device type?"
<ahayzen> Trigo, this one for packaging https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/publish/packaging-click-apps/
<Trigo> Thanks for the links. :D
<ahayzen> no problem
<Trigo> Aha, also...is 32 bit computer can be a minimum development device?
<Trigo> I tried Android SDK last time, but it giving me warning about 32 bit (need to !force run)
<ahayzen> erm i assume it'll be ok i've used the SDK on a 32bit VM before IIRC
<Trigo> I hope so
<Sleep_Walker> are there any other bindings than for QML and HTML5?
<Sleep_Walker> C++, python, ...
<vitimiti> Qt(C++), for example?
<vitimiti> And some JS, too
<saurabhdare> I see error parsing line -- "import Ubuntu.Components 1.1
<saurabhdare>  I selected QML app with qmake.
<bqphone> how can i change the weather channel displaying temp from fehrenhite to celcius
<popey> bqphone: in the weather app?
<SturmFlut> Whoever improved battery life on the bq so much, she/he/they deserve(s) some kind of prize.
<bqphone> yes popey, i went to the website and saved their the weather in C, but on the phone i get only with F
<popey> there's a settings option in the app
<popey> SturmFlut: yeah, it's impressive isn't it
<popey> but then that's what happens when you have a strict policy on background apps :)
<bqphone> in settings i see only location data
<SturmFlut> jamesh__: Ping (well, I don't really think you would be here on a sunny saturday, but popey seems to never sleep so you guys from the UK might be very clever bots)
<SturmFlut> popey: I would say "incredible". And there are *vast* differences in battery life between Android devices with similar hardware, so it might not just be related to background processes.
<popey> bqphone: let me get a screenshot
<popey> bqphone: this is settings inside the weather app itself
<popey> bqphone: http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-04-18-172845.png
<popey> http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-04-18-172858.png
<bqphone> well this one works perfect, but in the my weather channel which you see when you open your mobile, i see temp in F and its linked to a website m.weather.com
<popey> http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-04-18-173234.png
<popey> that one bqphone ?
<popey> i think that's linked to your locale.
<FrameFever> I thought there will be a high end hardware ubuntu smartphone from a chinese company, when will it come?
<popey> soon
<FrameFever> it thought it should be released in barcelona
<bqphone> yes popey
<bqphone> how to change it ?
<popey> i don't know.
<bqphone> how did u get yours in C ?
<popey> locale based I _think_
<DanChapman> Is it not configurable in the weather scope settings? I presume that's where it's getting pulled from
<popey> no
<popey> http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-04-18-173543.png
<popey> http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-04-18-173552.png
<popey> http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-04-18-173558.png
<FrameFever> I mostly interested in the desktop feature of the ubuntu phone, when will this be available?
<popey> we don't have an ETA for that
<bqphone> popey how do u make those printscreens?
<popey> i have a script
<FrameFever> ETA?
<bqphone> can i have the name if its not private?
<popey> Estimated Time of Arrival
<DanChapman> popey: ohright i see. It should be configurable from there imo and not based on locale.
<popey> ya
<popey> I agree
<bqphone> well if u go to m.weather.com you can save in settings there C in place of F, but it keeps fetching them as F
<popey> bqphone: you can also just press vol+ and vol-
<bqphone> anyone know if there is a way to watch videos shared on facebook? the webapp doesnt allow you to do so
<sjakie902> when i connect my phone(bq) with the usb cable to my laptop(kubuntu) i cant see my phone or mount it, any suggestions?
<bqphone> just made a printscreen, thx popey now how to delete it?
<dadexix86> sjakie902, kubuntu version?
<sjakie902> 14.04
<popey> sjakie902: is the phone unlocked?
<sjakie902> yes it is unlocked
<popey> hmm, does KDE support MTP browsing?
<Dragonkeeper> a little bit off topic , but im having trouble with ubuntu 14.10 desktop and setting up nvidia cuda
<popey> very offtopic - that's for #ubuntu
<Dragonkeeper> +!
<Dragonkeeper> alright :)
<sjakie902> i will check the mtp browsing in kubuntu, cant seem to connect my androidphone as wel
<sjakie902> thnx!
<bqphone> really how to delete a picture or should i delete it using terminal?
<popey> gallery, long press on a picture, choose delete from menu in top right
<bqphone> ah gallery
<SturmFlut> bqphone: or you can install the "File Manager" app, https://uappexplorer.com/app/com.ubuntu.filemanager , seems like it doesn't work with SD cards (yet) but the rest should work
<bqphone> thx
<popey> it does work with sd cards
<popey> you have to "unlock" it once in the app
<brunch875> Hello!
<bqphone> thx SturmFlut the filemanager is great
<bqphone> now is there an uninstaller program to get rid of the apps i dont need or use which are auto installed
<SturmFlut> bqphone: You can long press on them ini the "Application" scope
<bqphone> there are some other stuff i cant see in Application scopre for example bbc sports
<bqphone> how can i remove that?
<puppylove> hey guys. i'm looking to just install the touch tailored interface on a base chroot installation of ubuntu. which packages should i install?
<puppylove> i have a lenovo s8 android tablet, so i woul djust be running ubuntu in chroot
<SturmFlut> puppylove: The unity8 package should pull in all necessary packages, but I highly doubt it will run from a chroot on plain Android
<puppylove> eh, will find out soon enoughi suppose. i got kde working on it earlier, wiped it though and trying something else
<puppylove> thx
<SturmFlut> puppylove: Do you have an X server running?
<puppylove> not atm, i'm doing a reinstall of a small ubuntu image using the linuxdeploy app
<puppylove> err, its installing an x server instance, but im not sure which one
<puppylove> before i was controlling the OS via vnc
<puppylove> however there is an app out there that functions as an x server i may try this time
<puppylove> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=x.org.server
<puppylove> that
<SturmFlut> puppylove: Interesting!
<puppylove> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.meefik.linuxdeploy
<puppylove> that is what i used to install
<puppylove> this probably helps. my tablet is an x86 based
<puppylove> i haven't gotten x working yet, but could do ssh and vnc just fine
<puppylove> just needed a small touch friendly install to run a few apps on the tablet
<puppylove> gns3, wireshark, nmap, ham radio stuff
<puppylove> sdr
<puppylove> everything else i want to use this tablet for i can do within android itself
<puppylove> actually come to think of it
<puppylove> since i am running one of the newer atoms
<puppylove> i wonder if linux steam and some low end linux steam games will work in it...
<SturmFlut> puppylove: I tried to do a mostly unmodified installation of Ubuntu 15.04 on a Windows 8.1 tablet, including Unity8, but it was never stable because of the internal MMC flash
<puppylove> dual boot, or idd you completely over write it?> which tablet?
<SturmFlut> puppylove: If those geniuses at Google hadn't decided that an Android device can't be like a normal PC you could just install regular Ubuntu over Android, or have dual-boot
<SturmFlut> puppylove: I removed the Windows installation, it's a Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 8
<puppylove> ah, i thought that was more or less a discretion of the device maker, not google itself
<SturmFlut> puppylove: http://sturmflut.github.io/linux/ubuntu/2015/02/04/installing-ubuntu-on-baytrail-tablets-version-2/
<SturmFlut> puppylove: No, Google defines the startup environment for Android. They could've just specified UEFI and ACPI back then, like Microsoft does with Windows. There was no technical reason to lock everybody else out
<puppylove> lame
<puppylove> that makes me a sad panda
<SturmFlut> puppylove: In the end Android has now produced more locked-down devices than Windows was installed on in the last ten years, so I myself at least will never understand why some people still think of Google as an open and non-evil company
<puppylove> perhaps less evil is a better descriptor
<SturmFlut> puppylove: No. You can just deactivate Secure Boot on every current Windows tablet/PC/Desktop and install an unmodified x86 Linux, but you can't put an unmodified Linux distribution on any Android/ChromeOS device.
<puppylove> oh, none of the windows tablets require a firmware flashing?
<puppylove> hm
<SturmFlut> puppylove: the Windows RT devices are ARM-based, they are locked down, but those aren't on sale anymore. All current devices are just Intel x86 chips with UEFI and ACPI. Go to the UEFI menu, turn off Secure Boot, plug in an USB stick and boot from it.
<puppylove> windows rt was so obviously a boneheaded move
<puppylove> create brand confusion, that's all
<SturmFlut> puppylove: The kernel will boot, all CPU cores will come up, you will even get accelerated video. WiFi and Audio may be flaky, depending on the actual chipsets, and my device hat MMC flash problems, but the overall experience is okay.
<SturmFlut> I wonder why nobody came up with a Monopoly lawsuit against Google and Android device manufacturers. A phone/tablet is just a PC. We cry if our PCs are locked down, why do we allow phones/tablets to be locked down?
<puppylove> someone has to be motivated to do it. usually that is by money
<puppylove> perhaps that is what microsoft is reaching for by embracing cyanogenmod
<puppylove> sort of like how they prop up the rotted corpse of SCO to troll linux companies
<puppylove> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<puppylove> arrrrrgh
<SturmFlut> Well, I'll go back to my bug reports before I get into rage mode and start boring everyone
<puppylove> http://pastebin.com/AqZWqGiU
<t-ask> HI I have an BQ Aquaris 4.5 (Andriod) and I wanted to install Utouch on it by following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install I come up to "Unlock the Android device". On command "fastboot oem unlock" the terminal just shows "..." and nothing happens on the device. Any idea?
<tasty-sandwich> Anyone got a minute to talk?  I've got a design decision to make and I need to make it soon.
<tasty-sandwich> We have a network of payment kiosks that use google nexus 7's as essentially a touch screen interface to a raspberry pi.  People keep exiting the app and otherwise tampering with the system despite the fact we've spent thousands on "kiosk mode" software to lock that crap out.
<tasty-sandwich> We are considering a move to ubuntu touch.  Maybe even ditching the raspberry pi all together.
<tasty-sandwich> But I'm not sure how I would control the bill acceptor.  Is there a way to get the USB port from micro usb to like a regular USB hub?
<tasty-sandwich> Also is there a "lock down" mode available so that the ubuntu touch only loads & runs our app?  I just don't want the thing to boot up and present the user with email, internet etc.  We just need a single full screen app.
<labsin> tasty-sandwich, You could buy a OTG adapter. That way you can attach regular usb devices
<labsin> But not all drivers are build in the kernel. A mouse or keyboard work. Some wifi adapters too
<tasty-sandwich> Thanks I think the OTG adapter is exactly what I am looking for.  Is there a way to know if it will work with ubuntu touch?
<Inglebard> Hi everybody, someone know how translate QML app with "i18n.tr" ?
<tasty-sandwich> Well the billacceptor is driverless, there is a javasdk that opens up ttys0 and bitbangs it.
<labsin> Inglebard, Yes. What do you need to know?
<labsin> tasty-sandwich, That should work on Android I think
<labsin> Apps on Ubuntu touch aren't allowed that much
<labsin> But you could launch an app without these restrictions too
<Inglebard> labsin, I put i18n.tr to translate my text (label,...) and I create my po files but my app is always in english. Do you have an idea what I do wrong ?
<labsin> Inglebard, How do you make your po files?
<Inglebard> labsin, I use the .pot file in "po" folder to generate my po file with poedit program.
<labsin> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10846824/
<labsin> I use that script to generate mo files baste on the po files
<labsin> I put it in the po folder
<labsin> then I do ./generate_mo.sh (that's how I named the script) in the po folder. It generates locale/$LANG/LC_MESSAGES/$DOMAIN.mo files needed to load the translations
<labsin> the locale folder should be in the root of your click package
<labsin> Anybody tried the Falling Blocks game? I updated it today.
<t-ask> if I enter "fastboot oem unlock" nothing happens except I see "..." in the terminal. Am I missing something?
<t-ask> device is connected. I tested with "fastboot devices" ...
<labsin> t-ask, are you in fastboot mode?
<tasty-sandwich> Is there something other than an app?  I thought I saw some sort of "experience" thing, scene or scope or something like that.  Would that do it?
<t-ask> yes, it's written FASTBOOT mode ...
<t-ask> labsin: I wonder why my Aquaris 4.5 doesn't popup the unlock text.
<t-ask> labsin: I tried with sudo, too. no success
<t-ask> I don't need to insert a SIM first?
<t-ask> SD card is wiped and inserted, too.
<labsin> tasty-sandwich, What you ask for is to remove a lot from the image and only add an app. Than would certainly be possible, but the shell is tied up to the core. I don't know what would need to be changed. Maybe ask on the mailing list
<labsin> t-ask, oem unlock is to unlock the bootloader to be able to flash a new kernel that is not signed by the manufacturer
<Inglebard> labsin : I try your script, it's still in english...
<tasty-sandwich> Hmmm, maybe have the app launch at boot (got to be a way to do that right?)  Then have it catch any signals so it won't die or exit.
<t-ask> labsin: do you think it's already unlokced? I tried "adb setprop ..." It didn't change the prop ... therefore, I guess it's locked
<tasty-sandwich> OTOH, there's this...
<tasty-sandwich> http://www.andreas-schrade.de/2015/02/16/android-tutorial-how-to-create-a-kiosk-mode-in-android/
<labsin> tasty-sandwich, The shell is just like an app. Also written in qml with an cpp backend. So yes
<tasty-sandwich> Guess I'll give that a shot first.  Best not to toss the baby out with the bathwater, even if the baby has been acting bad ;)
<tasty-sandwich> Thanks for the advice guys!
<labsin> No prob
<labsin> t-ask, are you in fastboot mode now?
<labsin> Is there text on the screen? I think it should say something as "Device is UNLOCKED" (or LOCKED
<labsin> Inglebard, Did you change the DOMAIN in the script to your apps domain name?
<Inglebard> yeap
<t-ask> My bootloader doesn't show the green android robot only in recovery mode. It's just written "FASTBOOT mode" at the bottom.
<t-ask> labsin: oh, I missed your msg, sorry.  Not now. Should I chnage to fastboot mode now?
<labsin> t-ask, nono
<labsin> t-ask, my android devices shows a line that says unlocked at the screen when in fastboot mode
<SturmFlut> t-ask: Well, I see two problems. First, AFAIK the Aquaris E4.5 is already unlocked, so no "fastboot oem unlock" needed. And second, the internal flash contains a partition layout, which is different between Android and Ubuntu.
<Inglebard> labsin : can I send you a link to the repository to check what's happen, if you have time ? ( It's a really simple project )
<labsin> ok
<t-ask> labsin: my Fastboot just shows an ASCII line: "=> FASTBOOT mode..." nothing more.
<Inglebard> labsin : https://github.com/Inglebard/Fixel
<labsin> t-ask, Did you buy and Ubuntu edition? (see SturmFlut's post)
<SturmFlut> t-ask: bq offers a tool to set and format partitions, see http://www.bq.com/gb/products/aquaris-e4-5.html at the bottom, "Firmware Hard reset Version 1.5.0" and "Drivers+utilities", but AFAICS they haven't uploaded the necessary files for the Ubuntu partition layout, just those for Android.
<t-ask> labsin: no it's the Android edition.
<SturmFlut> labsin: I bought both, the Android version back in February for my brother and the Ubuntu version for me. They are different at the core, and bq would have to release the necessary tools and files to change the partition layout.
<SturmFlut> labsin, t-ask: Which they haven't.
<SturmFlut> I think one *could* come up with the necessary configuration file if one took the information from the Ubuntu version, but I never tried.
<labsin> Inglebard, Are you trying the translations on the device with installing a click package or on the desktop?
<Inglebard> on the device
<t-ask> SturmFlut: with "core" you mean partitions or hardware?!
<labsin> and there is a locale/nl/LC_MESSAGES/fixel.inglebard.mo file in the click package?
<t-ask> I just wonder why I can't even root the Android one
<labsin> Inglebard, ore something else the nl
<t-ask> SturmFlut: Did you root the Android phone somehow? And if, how?
<labsin> I did have troubles with this before and had to "hack" around it. I though it was fixed
<Inglebard> labsin : I am checking
<SturmFlut> t-ask: Both. The partition layout is different, and the hardware is slightly different as well. The Ubuntu device seems to currently have seven partitions, while the Android version has 19. The Ubuntu version has no visible touch buttons below the display (they are there, but invisible), the Android version has touch buttons.
<SturmFlut> t-ask: bq distributes a tool by the chipset manufacturer which can set and create flash partitions. The configuration file for the Android version of the E4.5 e.g. is http://paste.ubuntu.com/10847036/
<SturmFlut> t-ask: While the active configuration on the Ubuntu version is http://paste.ubuntu.com/10847042/ , clearly different
<labsin> Inglebard, I think I used the wrong gettext domain. You could do print(i18n.domain) in the app to check
<labsin> I think it needs to be just fixel maybe
<t-ask> SturmFlut: doesn't the flash tool repartition the internal flsh?
<t-ask> SturmFlut: I mean, I wonder that I can't root it in the first place
<labsin> I know I had to do: -       i18n.domain = "fallingblocks"        i18n.bindtextdomain(i18n.domain,"locale") in Component.onCompleted() somewhere to make it work
<t-ask> SturmFlut: Did you root the Android one?
<SturmFlut> t-ask: Yes, it does, but bq never released the necessary "scatter file" (the configuration file for the flash tool) for the Ubuntu version. So you can't currently convert the Android version to the Ubuntu version.
<labsin> Inglebard, But that should no lonker be needed as the bugreport I made was marked soved (never tested tho)
<labsin> But I need to go.
<labsin> So by
<t-ask> SturmFlut: ok, then I have an RMA case now .)
<Inglebard> Ok thanks
<SturmFlut> t-ask: You don't need to unlock bq phones, they are all unlocked already. And you don't need to root them if you're going to replace Android anyways.
<t-ask> SturmFlut: I just send it back and buy the Ubuntu version then.
<SturmFlut> t-ask: You can restore Android if you've already broken the installation, all the tools and files are on their website.
<t-ask> SturmFlut: Well, I couldn't change the device_id, so I thought mine is not rooted
<t-ask> SturmFlut: no nothing is broken. I couldn't flash the device... probably because of different device_id
<SturmFlut> t-ask: Hm, I don't know about device_id. All I know is that bq markets all their devices with the term "unlocked"
<SturmFlut> t-ask: If your intention was to get an Ubuntu phone, then open an RMA case and send it back. Should be the fastest way.
<t-ask> SturmFlut: yes, I just send it back. It's said that they sell the ubuntu version at a higher price.
<t-ask> /s/said/sad
<fran2> hey guys hello! I just messed up my ubuntu phone i guess; after system upgrade it is constantly rebooting itself; i cant access my phone anymore; what should i do
<SturmFlut> fran2: Do you remember which version you upgraded to? r20? r21?
<fran2> SturmFlut: I got an Aquarius E4.5 and i guess i upgraded to the recommended version ( was on system manager _ update menu)
<nik90> fran2: did you do anything out the ordinary to the E4.5? Like using apt-get or something?
<SturmFlut> fran2: Okay, I have not run into this problem myself, but there was a report on the mailing list about this happening sometimes. See https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg11819.html
<fran2> nik90: Yes I installed some python packages for installing whatsapp from terminal :/
<SturmFlut> fran2: Okay, that might not have been the best idea. WhatsApp would have probably blocked you anyways.
<bqphone> i had it also but after i did shutdown the phone and restarted then it worked fine
<bqphone> was also trying to install whatsapp
<fran2> but i think the continous reboot was due to ubuntu system upgrade since it happened just after that
<fran2> is there an easy way to just install a fresh ubuntu to get rid of this loop
<SturmFlut> fran2: Yes, there is. You should probably follow http://askubuntu.com/questions/602834/how-to-reset-bq-ubuntu-phone-when-gui-is-inaccessible
<SturmFlut> It will erase all your data though
<fran2> I do not have any data at all, my phone is totally new :/
<fran2> The problem is i cant even go into recovery mode; it also gets stuck
<SturmFlut> fran2: Wait a moment, I'll try it on my device
<sysop2> hi! I just did apt-get install ubuntu-touch on my convertible tablet, when it finishes what do I do next?
<sysop2> ubuntu 14.10
<sysop2> if you guys know of a howto please enlighten me. I have googled around but nothing about running it on x86 tablet/laptops.
<SturmFlut> sysop2: I think you restart the device, and in the login manager you select "Ubuntu Touch" or something
<SturmFlut> sysop2: Or "Unity 8"
<sysop2> sweet I was hoping it was that easy!
<t-ask> Does anyone know how many days it takes to get the Aquaris Ubuntu Ed. when ordering today?
<sysop2> cant wait to try it out, I couldnt get kde active to run at all on it. :(
<fran2> :/
<SturmFlut> t-ask: They say it takes a couple of days. But I don't know, I ordered during the second flash sale and bq Germany screwed up the order a little, so it took *very* long.
<t-ask> SturmFlut: then I hope they don't screw it up for me .)
<SturmFlut> t-ask: As long as the billing and shipping address are the same, it shouldn't be a problem
<SturmFlut> t-ask: That's were it got problematic
<t-ask> SturmFlut: I had to wait for the one I have now almost one week... cause of the DHL ppl on strike .)
<SturmFlut> fran2: Interesting, I can't get into recovery mode too. I see the menu with the three options, I select "recovery mode", but then the Ubuntu circle appears and never goes away.
<fran2> SturmFlut: same!
<SturmFlut> fran2: Ah! You have to press "Power Up"!
<fran2> SturmFlut: What do you mean? After ubuntu circle?
<SturmFlut> fran2: Jep!
<sysop2> what no "computer on"
<SturmFlut> fran2: Select "Recovery mode", press "Power down" to select it, wait until the Ubuntu circle appears, then press "Power up"
<SturmFlut> fran2: At least that's how it works on my device here
<SturmFlut> fran2: If I do it like this, I see the "Wipe data/factory reset" option
<SturmFlut> sysop2: Did it start Unity8?
<fran2> SturmFlut: It works!
<SturmFlut> fran2: Now let's hope that this fixes the problem
<SturmFlut> fran2: Otherwise you should be able to boot into recovery and execute "ubuntu-device-flash touch --bootstrap" on the desktop
<SturmFlut> fran2: As long as "fastboot devices" shows the phone
<fran2> SturmFlut: It is working I guess, thank you man
<SturmFlut> fran2: no problem
<fran2> SturmFlut: Do you know also if it is possible to install whatsapp?
<SturmFlut> fran2: WhatsApp declines to support Ubuntu Touch. There are some alternative clients, but if you use them WhatsApp will block you. That's why we have Telegram.
<SturmFlut> sysop2: Any luck?
<fran2> SturmFlut: Thank you again, telegram seems well! I will convince my friends to use it
<SturmFlut> fran2: Any modern Android phone can usually run more than one Messenger at the same time, so it shouldn't be a problem for them.
<SturmFlut> fran2: And Telegram has secure, encrypted chats. Maybe your friends like that...
<nik90> damn the battery life in OTA-3 is too good..finding it really hard to bring the battery percent lower than 20% even after a full day of moderate use
<popey> \o/
<brunch875> yeah, it's great. Normally I'd be all out of battery when back home
<brunch875> let's hope we see more patches :))) long journey ahead
#ubuntu-touch 2015-04-19
<sysop2> SturmFlut thanks for asking,  no after I installed touch I get usb 1-1.2.2:device descripter read/64, error -32.
<sysop2> that was a red herring, unplugged extra usb I just a black screen. tried fail safe x and it just quits back to the menu.. is there a minimum res requirement or something?
<sysop2> should 1280x800 be enough to run touch?
<froyo> Hello
<froyo> I installed ubuntu-sdk
<froyo> and I don't which architure and framework should I use and target.
<froyo> know*
<froyo> There 14.04 and 15.04 framework, and intel, armfh architure
<froyo> Hi, anyone online?
<bzoltan_> froyo:  the bq phone is armhf and the emulator is i386. The bq phone is running on 14.10 and on nexus4 you can insall 15.04 already. So it is up to what do you target.
<froyo> but I'm using 14.04 development platform.
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<froyo> can I use 14.04 still?
<froyo> Hi, good morning.
<froyo> bzoltan, also...I don't want to use an emulator...because my pc is 32 bit and slow...Do I need to run every QML app in the emulator?
<sysop2> has anyone got this to work on a atom based laptop with touch screen?  I cant find mention of anyone doing it successfully and its starting to worry me.
<froyo> the sdk?
<sysop2> I installed ubuntu and it came up fine, I install ubuntu touch and rebooted and now it hangs on a black screen. I can get to a root prompt and I am installing the newest intel video drivers and updating all the packages, any other suggestions?
<lotuspsychje> sysop2: you want to ask this in #ubuntu
<sysop2> ok
<froyo> Can I run QML app without using the emulator?
<lotuspsychje> !devices | sysop2
<ubot5> sysop2: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<lotuspsychje> how can i see the new touch apps like here: https://uappexplorer.com/apps
<lotuspsychje> seems like new apps, just comes into the categories and never show as 'new'?
<lotuspsychje> space * gives me most recent apps, but not all
<froyo> It's not supported by Canonical, it's better to discuss this with the maintainer.
<lotuspsychje> froyo: whats not supported?
<froyo> oh sorry...it's to my friend
<froyo> lotus...are you developing or packaging?
<SturmFlut> Regarding the e-mail by Matthias Apitz to the ubuntu-phone mailing list: is it possible to launch the mediaplayer-app from the shell? I tried "ubuntu-app-launch mediaplayer-app file://${PATH}", and the app actually starts and seems to try to play the file, but the result is an error message claiming that "the connection to the background service failed."
<SturmFlut> Oh, this particular video also fails when I start playback through the Video scope. Strange. It was indexed correctly by the mediascanner, but now it won't play.
<popey> i just launched a video from the video scope then looked at the process list
<popey> phablet   6237 55.3  3.8 253380 37844 ?        Ssl  09:59   0:01 mediaplayer-app video:///media/phablet/2541-1C26/Videos/Arctic%20Monkeys%20-%20Do%20I%20Wanna%20Know%20(Official%20Video)-bpOSxM0rNPM.mp4
<popey> so you need video:// then the path
<popey> SturmFlut: ^
<SturmFlut> popey: Ah, thanks a lot, I couldn't get any video to play so I couldn't look it up myself
<SturmFlut> popey: I suppose the full command line to launch the media player is "ubuntu-app-launch mediaplayer-app video://${PATH}" then?
<mpt> ogra_, renaming the item wouldnât solve brunch875âs problem
<popey> SturmFlut: i guess
<NIN101> what's the path of the sms database on the filesystem?
<SturmFlut> jamesh: Ping
<SturmFlut> popey: Okay, seems like I'm hitting some kind of bug here. If the phone is freshly rebooted and I launch a video via the Video scope, it plays. If I start playback from the command line, the media player starts, but doesn't play the file, and after that the media player just keeps complaining about not being able to communicate with the background service.
<popey> lemme try
<SturmFlut> popey: I am running into bug 1295062 though, maybe my media database is corrupted
<ubot5> bug 1295062 in mediascanner2 "Full length movie does not show up in Video lens" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295062
<popey> yeah, it doesn't launch here using that method either
<popey> oh, it does!
<popey> if mediaplayer was closed
<popey> works fine
<SturmFlut> popey: Okay, was probably because of the other bug then
<Azby> Hola/hello
<SturmFlut> Azby: Hi
<Azby> This a my first time intenciÃ³n a ir chanelar, Id iike todo report a bug in ubuntu touch
<Azby> si this the right place?
<Azby> Sorry for the autocorrect
<SturmFlut> Azby: You can write to the ubuntu-phone mailing list or open a bug report on Launchpad.net. This way everyone can see the bug report, not all developers read the messages on this channel.
<Azby> OK thank you
<popey> Azby: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Avengers is a good place to find out where to file bugs
<ogra_> mpt, no, but a lot of confusion around it :)
<ogra_> mpt, if it said "quieten notifications" or some such, i would know what to expect ... "silent mode" kind of turns into "mute" in peoples brains (in mine at least :) )
<mpt> ogra_, it doesnât (or shouldnât) just quieten notifications.
<nik90> popey, ogra_: Hey, Unity8 completely froze on my BQ yesterday nite after charging it. I couldn't adb or phablet-shell into it to restart unity8. I had to resort to using the power button to restarting it. Is there another way I can access the phone and get the unity8 logs to help debug issues like this?
<mibofra> hi guys, Does anyone remember images like this one http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/daily-preinstalled/current/saucy-preinstalled-phablet-armhf.zip installable from recovery? Is there any tool to obtain the flashable zips from for example the latest rootfs of vivid?
<popey> nik90: mine froze just now.
<popey> but I left it alone and it recovered, I imagine apport ate the cpu
<popey> -rw-r-----  1 phablet whoopsie 140K Apr 19 09:32 _usr_bin_unity8.32011.crash
<popey> yup, apport writing a crash file
<SturmFlut> nik90: This has happened to me a couple of times, and like popey says, it recovered after waiting for a bit
<popey> I would let it sit there, so the crash file is written out fully, and then uploaded
<popey> that way the unity8 devs can debug it via errors.ubuntu.com
<SturmFlut> mibofra: Well, I don't know much about this stuff, but there are files like http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/
<nik90> ah ok
<mibofra> ok but the rootfs into the tarball is not flashable in recovery.
<SturmFlut> mibofra: Sorry, no idea.
<mibofra> ok
<NIN101> are there any plans to add "disk" encryption to ubuntu touch?
<cylonmath> is there an easy way to import phone contacts from an android phone (samsung 5360?)
<ogra_> NIN101, indeed
<ogra_> cylonmath, via google contacts ...
<NIN101> ogra_: do you know whether there is some kind of status page or so?
<ogra_> NIN101, no, sorry ... but encryption is on the list ... we need greeter multiuser support first for the decryption though ...
<ogra_> generally the term "convergence" actually means the whole system though ... not just running apps that adapt to the UI ... the phone will have an identical feature set to the desktop one day ... even on the plumbinng layer...
<ogra_> -n
<BOHverkill> yes i managed to change the time format from 12h to 24h :)
<ogra_> congrats
<BOHverkill> ogra_: thx :)
<lotuspsychje> ogra_: you know a trick to display latest apps on touch?
<lotuspsychje> i tryed space * but not all aps show
<ogra_> lotuspsychje, i use the web appstore for tha, it shows them in the order they land in the store
<ogra_> search for "appstore" ...
<lotuspsychje> ogra_: yeah i got that in my favs, tought there might be a trick to display them 'most recent' on touch
<lotuspsychje> would love that in the future, seeing all newest apps in front ubuntu store
<nik90> Who decides on the "highlight of the week" in the ubuntu touch stores? Excellent choice for this week :P
<Elleo> nik90: couldn't agree more ;)
 * ogra_ notes he has only 4 out of 6 essantial apps installed ... 
<ogra_> they cant be *that* essential then :P
<Elleo> heh
<nik90> lol
<nik90> Elleo: hey btw, listitem.empty clicked signal allows onlinkactivated to also work..so now we can press on episode links :D
<Elleo> nik90: great :)
<nik90> Elleo: But I cant figure out why it still shows 00:00 for undefined durations :P..that thing is bugging me quite a bit
<lotuspsychje> https://twitter.com/hashtag/ubuntuphone?src=hash
<Elleo> nik90: yeah, I'll take a look at that after lunch see if I can spot anything
<nik90> Elleo: I will just keep testing the branch to see if there are any other issues I can spot and fix meanwhile
<Elleo> nik90: okay, cool
 * ogra_ wonders if it would make sense to have some framwork similar to the alternate-webapp container for webradio apps ... 
<ogra_> (with standardized controls ... playlist parsing etc)
<lotuspsychje> you know what would be nice, an almost ready webapp so users can drag n drop something and make an app themselfs
<ogra_> i'd prefer if the browser had an "bookmark to app" function :)
<ogra_> in the burger menu on the top right ...
<lotuspsychje> would also be nice
<ogra_> essentially the same thing, just inntegrated by default into the browser
<ogra_> that would save us from the not-actually-webapps webapps :)
<nik90> ogra_: the browser in vivid is so much better..the url bar now acts behaves like a page header where if you scroll up it scrolls as well instead of with a delay like in rtm
<nik90> but yeah a bookmark to app would be nice
<ogra_> nik90, i still find it awful and jiggly
<ogra_> it shouldnt move the webview around when it slides in/out
<nik90> ogra_: is it still jiggly for you? It doesn't move the webview around for me anymore in vivid
<ogra_> oh, you are right, i'm sure it did the last time i checked :)
<lotuspsychje> im happy with devel-proposed webbrowser-app too
<ogra_> (that shows how often i use the browser itself i guess :P )
<nik90> yeah the browser moving the webview in RTM bugged me quite a bit..happy now though
<lotuspsychje> nik90: wich device are you on?
<nik90> lotuspsychje: BQ (RTM) and N4 (Vivid)
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> nik90: nexus7 on devel-proposed here
<nik90> ah N7..pretty cool
<nik90> its like a small notebook and feels good
<lotuspsychje> nexus7 is a tablet
<nik90> yes
<lotuspsychje> feels very good
<nik90> hmm bug 1445527 is strange..lets see if I can reproduce it
<ubot5> bug 1445527 in podbird "Speaker remains on after podcast finishes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445527
<popey> hmm http://imgur.com/XCce0Xq
<popey> 23394 phablet   20   0  363596  43472  22008 S  99.4  4.4 341:15.66 telegram
 * popey files a bug
<faenil> popey: ouch
 * ogra_ LOLs
<ogra_> so i just aded audible feedback (a click sound) to the alternate webapp container if you click website links
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1445928
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1445928 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Unity 8 crash, significant battery drain" [Undecided,New]
<ogra_> using an app with that enabled on vivid nearly makes impossible to read the conten because you always have  the volume popup in yur face
<ogra_> lovely
<popey> ogra_: can you do me a favour and take a screenshot with vol+and vol-?
<popey> tell me what the file name is that it makes?
<popey> -rw-rw-r-- 1 phablet phablet 423K Apr 19 15:10 screenshot20151019_151011494.png
<popey> that's mine
<popey> (the YYYYMMDD makes _no_ sense)
<ogra_> screenshot20150419_162338910.png
<popey> wat
<popey> i have loads yesterday that are -rw-rw-r-- 2 phablet phablet 393K Apr 18 09:58 screenshot20155818_095843963.png
<popey> like that
<popey> I'm on the retail phone here.
<ogra_> that month seems a slight bit in the future :)
<popey> in fact loking back over the month, none of them are right
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10850919/
<popey> haha i see what it is
<popey> someone has mixed %m and %M
<popey> the minute is where the month should be
<ogra_> well, seems fixed in vivid
<popey> ok
<popey> thanks
<ogra_> geez ... tha volume popupp is annoying
 * ogra_ checks where that MP was with the fix ... 
<popey> irritating that on the phone, screenshots have a sane format, yet on the desktop our default screenshot app has colons and spaces in the file name
<popey> "Screenshot from 2015-04-19 15:27:52" is a stupid filename
<ogra_> yes
<ogra_> comes from gnome i think
<popey> only 3 years ago... bug 1054808 was filed
<ubot5> bug 1054808 in gnome-screenshot (Ubuntu) "Default filename for screenshots is problematic" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054808
<ogra_> we use the default app iirc
<ogra_> well, unity8 will fix that ;)
<popey> holy cow they finally fixed it upstream
 * popey falls over
<mariogrip> popey: status on http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?
<popey> ogasawara_: ^ do you know?
<popey> mariogrip: ogasawara_ is probably a better person to ask as she is (I think) the biggest consumer of that service.
<ogasawara_> popey: we were told Mon
<popey> ok, thanks.
<mariogrip> ok
<popey> sorry it's not sooner mariogrip
<mariogrip> popey: it's fine, i have have other stuff while i wait. (like ril)
 * mariogrip sees that the grammar is way off after he presses the "enter" key
<ogra_> file a bug against the keyboard then :)
<mariogrip> ogra_: :P
<faenil> took some pictures with flash last evening...auto white balancing of close subjects is completely nuts :D is the white balancing done in qtmultimedia plugins? or is it at a lower level?
<faenil> (BQ -> devel-proposed)
<ogra_> faenil, you should ask Kaleo during the week ...
<faenil> ok, thanks ;)
<faenil> woah, vibrator got stuck while receiving a notification, I read about this in this chat already, iirc
<ogra_> yeah, fix is ready, needs to land
<faenil> ogra_: ok thanks
<faenil> ouch, hard reboot at the end of a phonecall
<faenil> :/
<Sleep_Walker> 1] How can I set up tethering?
<Sleep_Walker> 2] I still haven't connected to Aquaris through adb shell, device is not visible in `adb devices' - what can be wrong?
<Sleep_Walker> android devices are visible...
<Sleep_Walker> yes, I enabled developer access
<SturmFlut> Sleep_Walker: ADB shell will only work if the device is unlocked
<Sleep_Walker> what is unlocking in this context?
<ogra_> screen unlockin
<ogra_> g
<Sleep_Walker> OK, I unplugged and plugged again with unlocked screen - no change...
<ogra_> where doesthe adb on your PC come from ?
<Sleep_Walker> ugh
<Sleep_Walker> it's a bit complicated :)
<Sleep_Walker> openSUSE package android-tools run through altered LD_LIBRARY_PATH from different root filesystem
<ogra_> well, if it isnt from the phablet-tools PPA or from a recent ubuntu archive package (utopic and vivid should work out of the box) then you might need to restart the adb server on the PC with sudo
<ogra_> the package ships udev rules that you might miss ...
<Sleep_Walker> good point
<ogra_> adb kill-server; sudo adb devices
<Sleep_Walker> nope, I wrote the rule myself
<ogra_> ... and then try adb shell again
<Sleep_Walker> it doesn't seem to be the problem either
<ogra_> (just to rule out any issues with the rule)
<ogra_> are you sure that setup you run there has full access to /dev ?
<ogra_> developer mode works definitely fine with an ubuntu host ... (teh daily device test run through that, it woould ring a lot of alarm bells if that broke)
<ogra_> tethering: androoid-gadget-service enable rndis
<ogra_> you can run that in the terminal-app
<ogra_> (only tested on ubuntu, not sure if/how suses network manager gets along with that)
<ogra_> oh, "android-gadget-service" (one o )
<Sleep_Walker> rndis is cable protocol - is there some wifi way?
<ogra_> not yet, no
<Sleep_Walker> ok
<Sleep_Walker> thanks!
<ogra_> (being worked on, but there are some driver issues with AP mode that need solving first)
<Sleep_Walker> yeah, I can imagine
<ogra_> the wonderful world of binary drivers :)
<Sleep_Walker> if you say 'being worked on' - where is the VCS to follow?
<BOHverkill> Sleep_Walker: i had the same problem with arch
<BOHverkill> Sleep_Walker: that worked for me: https://askubuntu.com/questions/601324/bq-e4-5-adb-fails
<Sleep_Walker> BOHverkill: thanks, I'll try
<Sleep_Walker> BOHverkill: oh yeah! thanks!
<Sleep_Walker> whitelist of vendors, that makes sense :b
<BOHverkill> SturmFlut: np ;)
<Sleep_Walker> and, do you know the reasons why I shouldn't install SW using apt?
<Sleep_Walker> I noticed the warning but forgot to ask why...
<popey> Sleep_Walker: http://askubuntu.com/questions/599488/how-to-install-a-deb-file-in-ubuntu-touch/599489#599489
<Sleep_Walker> popey: thanks :)
<Sleep_Walker> not that I understand the answer...
<popey> you can really only have one package manager in use
<popey> the OTA updates is one way, apt is the other
<popey> if you use apt, and then OTA update, you may lose your changes
<Sleep_Walker> if you mean installed software - it is worth of risk
<Sleep_Walker> if you mean user data, it's not nice
<sjakie902> today some of my apps lost their icons, does any else had this problem?
<sjakie902> http://imgur.com/ClWkgDe
<popey> i have seen this
<popey> when I switched to vivid.
<Sleep_Walker> OTA update is just another snapshot of file system, right?
<popey> sjakie902: is this a retail bq phone?
<popey> Sleep_Walker: delivered as a diff
<sjakie902> retail BQ
<popey> hm
<popey> you're the third person I have seen mention this, we need to capture this in a bug report
<popey> sjakie902: https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+filebug can you file a bug and give some detail and attach the screenshot please?
<popey> i have a feeling I know what it is.
<sjakie902> oke i will file a bug
<popey> can you let me have the bug number when you do. thanks
<Sleep_Walker> has anyone experimented with overlayfs?
<Sleep_Walker> hm, no, that wouldn't be nice solution either :|
<sjakie902> bug filed #1445979
<Sleep_Walker> the solution for packaging duality would be distribute OTA update as full image - I would only loose newly installed packages (I can keep some list in home partition)
<Hen_> Hey guys
<Hen_> not sure if this is the right place for asking questions about the ubuntu-sdk
<Hen_> but I'm having some problems with my device not being detected
<Hen_> It's the Aquaris E4
<Hen_> and a fresh install of ubuntu 14.04
<Azby> Using my new ubuntu bq ð
<ulrichard> Since only few packages are installable with apt-get on ubuntu touch, I would assume they work. But using cryptsetup I always get : "device-mapper: reload ioctl on  failed: No such file or directory"
<Sebsebsebb> Hi
<Sebsebsebb> Purple screen on ubuntu bq phone after turning it off and trying to turn on again or after trying to turn it off
<nik90> hmm if only the ubuntu touch store could allow developers to reply to their app reviews
<genii> That seems like a large oversight on their part.
<nik90> well its in the pipeline..just not yet implemented
<Sleep_Walker> it seems that android version of aquaris has three "buttons" at the bottom of front side
<Sleep_Walker> is the HW still there or was removed for ubuntu version?
<k1l> the ubuntu version doesnt have a buton on the front
<brunch875> they were removed
#ubuntu-touch 2016-04-18
<HickorySmokedBac> Is this the "ubuntu phone" channel ?
<duflu> HickorySmokedBac: Yes, as far as I know
<duflu> Although I had heard it said this is the development channel (not for users)
<duflu> Not sure
<HickorySmokedBac> duflu: Have they began to roll out?
<HickorySmokedBac> Oh
<duflu> Looks like it's for users
<HickorySmokedBac> I'm wondering if they are going to start rolling out, cost , carriers, etc..
<HickorySmokedBac> If it can be put on Pageplus (Verizon reseller)
<HickorySmokedBac> so forth
<duflu> HickorySmokedBac: I'm not sure how international the rollout is yet. But there is:  http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/devices
<HickorySmokedBac> Woah those are some high dollar phone
<HickorySmokedBac> s
<HickorySmokedBac> OK, never mind. eBay it is
<HickorySmokedBac> yeah.. those are pretty speced out
<duflu> HickorySmokedBac: We also support the Nexus4/5 with Ubuntu touch if you can find those
<duflu> I find the Nexus4 to be unsually well performing with Ubuntu Touch. Despite being "old"
<HickorySmokedBac> duflu: I imagine I'll just get a Moto G 3G first edition XT1028
<HickorySmokedBac> I aint spending more than $40 on a phone
<duflu> HickorySmokedBac: Sure. Just FYI if you were particularly wanting Ubuntu Touch then a second-hand Nexus 4 or 5 is probably the best option
<HickorySmokedBac> Less I become rich.. Then ya know, all taht extra stuff is good later.
<HickorySmokedBac> The storage is small and camera is 5 MP is my only problem with the XT1028
<knightwise> morning guys
<lotuspsychje> knightwise: hello
<knightwise> hey lotuspsychje :) How are you
<lotuspsychje> fine fine tnx
<tsdgeos> anyone knowledgeable as how the language-pack-touch-XX packages are created?
<tsdgeos> seb128: do you know about how the language-pack-touch-XX packages are created?
<seb128> tsdgeos, hey, sort of yes, why?
<tsdgeos> seb128: seems we're missing one file (the ubuntu-ui-toolkit one)
<seb128> translations are exported by launchpad and https://launchpad.net/langpack-o-matic is used to build the langpacks
<jibel> tsdgeos, it is known. sil2100 is handling it.
<seb128> that was fixed some days ago
<tsdgeos> jibel: is there a bug for it so i can reassign the bug i have about it?
<seb128> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/langpack-o-matic/main/revision/560
<seb128> tsdgeos, ^
<seb128> Bug #1567377: Select text popup not localized
<ubot5`> bug 1567377 in Canonical System Image "Select text popup not localized" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1567377
<jibel> tsdgeos, yes there is a bug, I don't remember the number though
<seb128> ^
<tsdgeos> tx
<seb128> jibel, lut, bien rentrÃ© ?
<sil2100> It should be fixed in rc-proposed
<jibel> tsdgeos, bug 1566341 is the master bug I tihnk
<ubot5`> bug 1566341 in Canonical System Image "Missing translations in the indicators" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566341
<jibel> salut seb128 bien rentrÃ© et toi?
<jibel> seb128, it took me nearly as much time to go from cdg to my home than slc to paris :)
<seb128> :-/
<jibel> seb128, a car was on fire on the railway, and we've been blocked for ages
<seb128> rien de spÃ©cial Ã  signalÃ©, bon retour ;-)
<seb128> urg
<seb128> there was construction work and less trains here
<seb128> but I was home at 12
<Smurphy> Hmmm. Just wondering. Why is my BQ-4.5 Aquaris not issuing a sound when I receive a message. it's configured in the audio-settings, and I added an own audio sound (r2d2 actually).
<Smurphy> Any hints on how to troubleshoot that ?
<Walex> Smurphy: that "works for me"
<Smurphy> WEll - it should. When I get a text-message however, no beep. it just vibrate (I configured it to do both).
<Sander^home> Hi
<Sander^home> My E4.5 locked itself up. Impossible to take the phone or power cycle it.
<Sander^home> Anyone know what I can do?
<Smurphy> Weird. Anything special you did ?
<Smurphy> Eventually a reset could help. Does it boot or not ?
<Sander^home> Its been on for a long time without use.
<Sander^home> I cant get it to shut down.
<Sander^home> Maybe it was becouse I choose "connect and sync", from a phone on the same usb hub.
<Smurphy> That, I don't know.
<Smurphy> I acually use mine.
<Sander^home> Looks like the screen isnt responding.
<Smurphy> http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/276626-60-minutes-hacks-congressmans-phone-for-security-report 8lol*
<Sander^home> Its possible to call the phone, but not take the phone.
<cariveri> Hi. Is there a way to see the log or commandline of an app that I launched?
<Smurphy> Sander^home: You had enabled remote access to it ?
<Acou_Bass> Sander^home: can you not pull the battery?
<ogra_`> Sander^home, holding the power button for 20sec or so definitely does a hard reset
<Sander^home> ogra_`: thanks! Worked:)
<cariveri> mzanetti: hey. the vlc remote doesnt connect. ping connection is fine between the devices. and followed the vlc instructions here: http://hobbyistsoftware.com/vlcsetup-linux .
<cariveri> mzanetti: please help.
<mzanetti> ?
<mzanetti> I've no clue about VLC
<mzanetti> I can tell the logo, but that's pretty much about it :)
<ogra_`> oh, that reminds me ... mzanetti seems there is a bug in kodimote where the search doesnt work if you search for multiple words
<ogra_`> (using it with openelec here)
<ogra_`> single word works fine ... (looks like a quoting issue)
<mzanetti> it's more of a filter than a search, but I can have a look. Please report it here: https://github.com/mzanetti/kodimote/issues
<ogra_`> will do
<mzanetti> ta
<Acou_Bass> cariveri: the VLC remote is a bit finnnicky for me too, usually have to restart the app then it wakes up
<cariveri> Acou_Bass: the confirm button just doesnt trigger anything. and i found something in the logviwer.
<cariveri> Acou_Bass: it reads : an apparmor policy prevents this sender from sending this message to this recipient
<Acou_Bass> sorry, ive no idea what that means hehe
<cariveri> alright:) was worth a shot. I guess there is an access restriction somewhere.
<mike00> hi all, is correct when I receive a Telegram notification, the phone desn't ring?
<teve_> mike00: afaik it's known bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1413818
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1413818 in Canonical System Image "Notification sounds aren't being played back on E4.5 (ubuntu-push restricts directories and block custom sounds)" [Critical,Fix committed]
<Smurphy> teve_: Very old bug ...
<faenil> mzanetti: hey, do we have any guideline on the number of pixels that a GU might be, across all devices?
<faenil> is it just a hardcoded integer, or do we have any other rule like "it has to be multiple of X" or anything like thaT?
<ogra_> we used to have a table in the old porting guide
<ogra_> even a formula you could use
<faenil> I'm trying to avoid having non-pixel-aligned assets in components, but without a rule it's pretty much impossible
<faenil> ogra_: ok, but there's no guarantee on the relationship between numbers that the formula will output, on different devices, right?
<ogra_> i think there is
<mzanetti> it's just an arbirary integer
<ogra_> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/porting-new-device/ ... see "Screen Pixel Ratio" (funnily under "Debugging")
<ogra_> sadly the formula is gone from that doc
<faenil> ogra_: I don't see any relationship between the numbers, the formula depends on arbitrary factors
<faenil> "It is primarily dependent on the pixel density of the deviceâs screen and the distance to the screen the user is at. That second value cannot be automatically detected and is based on heuristics"
 * ogra_ uses a ruler when porting to actually determine the right value :P
<faenil> let's say I have a vertical line of 2dp, on my laptop that will be 2px, on Nexus7 that will be 2.5px, i.e. blurry
<faenil> ogra_: I don't think I'm explaining myself here :)
<faenil> +properly
<faenil> there is no way to guarantee that line will always be at the same time sharp and properly positioned, afaict
<ogra_> ah, no
<faenil> yeah, I hoped we had something in place to avoid that. Ok ;)
<ogra_> positioned is the master in that ...
<faenil> I'm not sure, looking at how bad the scrollbar arrow icon looks on my monitor, I think I'd rather have a sharp pic which is slightly offset.
<faenil> To anyone who's following: I think a decent rule here is to make sure the asset/graphics/UIpiece is pixel aligned on the device that has the lowest pixel-per-GU value
<faenil> make it pixel-aligned on 8px/GU
<faenil> then if it will be not aligned on 12px+/GU, the blurriness will be less annoying
<ogra_> i know we have two fixed GU values for phones ... to make sure the positioning is the same everywhere ... i.e. the bq 4.5 has 40gu width ... while a hi res phone like the mx4 has 50gu  .... the actual GRID_UNIT_PX variable is adjusted to these values
<faenil> ogra_: yeah I'm aware of that
<faenil> it doesn't really help :)
<ogra_> well, it was a mgmt request to do it this way
<faenil> unless you can afford sticking to integer GU sizes, of course
<faenil> sure, not saying it's right or wrong, just saying that the problem remains
<ogra_> the 40/50 thing is mandatory
<faenil> sure
<faenil> my "unless" sentence was related to UI components/assets sizing in apps
<faenil> if you can, you should always have integer-GU sizes. When you can't (for instance when the asset is smaller than 1GU) then you're on your own :)
<mzanetti> faenil, yeah, I remember on frieza the formula was: what gets us closest do 90gu on the short edge
<faenil> the best thing I can think of is what I said above, make sure it's pixel aligned on 8px/GU, as that's where not being pixel aligned creates the worst result
<mzanetti> faenil, we can ship different assets per gu
<mzanetti> which I guess is a bit broken
<mzanetti> it works as promised, but we can't ship 40 versions of each icon
<faenil> hehe, yeah, that may work for assets, won't work for lines/etc
<ogra_> we can ... the desktop does :P
<mzanetti> hah
<mzanetti> faenil, what "lines"?
<ogra_> the blurred ones :)
<mzanetti> there's at least 2 versions already
<faenil> mzanetti: see the example above, say you draw a line in QML, make it units.dp(2). That will be pixel aligned on my laptop (hence sharp) and blurry on Nexus7
<faenil> 2dp wide ^
<mzanetti> I think units.dp has magic builtin to be pixel aligned
<faenil> mzanetti: now you're talking
 * faenil checks the code
<mzanetti> which is the whole point of it... otherwise you'd use units.gu(0.1)
<mzanetti> also afaik unity.gu() will pixel align too provided you use something dividable by 0.5
<mzanetti> ie. never use something like units.gu(0.7)
<mzanetti> but 0.5, 1, 5.5 etc should be fine
<mzanetti> that's what I've been told, I never digged into the actual meat of it myself
<faenil> mzanetti: so there's no device with 21px/GU ?
<faenil> and there will never be one?
<mzanetti> oh, I think there is
<faenil> :D
<mzanetti> I mean, in the code, never use "units.gu(.7)"
<faenil> but you said "0.5 should be fine"
<mzanetti> but if you use straight numbers (of .5), then it should work, regardless of the pxpgu value
<faenil> which is false, as that would be 10.5px
<faenil> I don't see how that's different than 0.7
<faenil> (even if they're both rounded)
<mzanetti> again, that's what I've been told when I wrote my very first patch for unity8. I never really questioned it tbh
<faenil> ok
<mzanetti> faenil, greyback or Kaleo shoudl know details
<faenil> mzanetti: we still have the problem of shipping one asset per GU, fwiw
<faenil> (to be able to handle all cases)
<faenil> http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qguiapplication.html#devicePixelRatio
<faenil> + http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/staging/view/head:/src/Ubuntu/Components/plugin/ucunits.cpp#L141
<faenil> dp returns a float
<faenil> and m_devicePixelRatio is a float
<mzanetti> yes
<mzanetti> hmm
<faenil> so, nothing ensures dp is pixel-aligned
<greyback> faenil: units.gu always returns an integer. Using it for positioning should place things on the pixel boundary
<faenil> greyback: talking about non-integer-GU cases here
<faenil> (such as thin lines, small assets, etc)
<greyback> faenil: m_devicePixelRatio *can* be a float, but it will never actually be (in Qt5.4)
<greyback> yes the api says float, but we only stick ints in there
<faenil> greyback: 1) it will be pretty soon, 2) dp still returns float
<faenil> return qRound(value * ratio) / m_devicePixelRatio;
<faenil> either I'm missing something or that can easily return a float number of px
<mzanetti> faenil, on a device with GRID_UNIT_PX=21, units.gu(.5) returns 11 for me
<greyback> faenil: (1) I've found no evidence for. (2) yes, but if DPR is 2, then the effective result of that formula is qRound(value * ratio) / m_dPR * DPR = Round(value * ratio) \in \ZZ
<greyback> err latex crept in there, sorry
<faenil> haha
<faenil> nw
<greyback> faenil: if dpr > 1, then whatever we return from dp/gu will be multiplied by DPR by Qt internally, to get the raw pixel value
<greyback> hence the divide
<faenil> greyback: oh, right, then ok
<faenil> greyback: what does Qt apply that multiplication to? i.e. what's the criteria
<faenil> is dp installed as "unit" or something?
<faenil> or is it just because it's used as value for QtQuick sizes
<faenil> (the latter, I guess)
<mzanetti> faenil, I've sent a screenshot with a test app via teelgram
<faenil> mzanetti: seen
<mzanetti> units.gu() does return only integers, regardless of what you feed it
<greyback> faenil: almost everything in QML is sized in device-independent pixels, which Qt will scale to physical pixels by multiplying by dpr
<faenil> mzanetti: sure, dp does as well, I was just not considering that Qt will multiply that by DPR, that's why it works
<mzanetti> well, it would. but not on our platform atm
<faenil> greyback: so, the latter. That means, if I print units.dp(something) then I could get a flot
<mzanetti> soon
<faenil> float
<greyback> faenil: right
<greyback> yeah, we're still stuck with dpr1
<faenil> yeah
<greyback> with the help of the gods, perhaps I'll fix that
<faenil> so, going back to the initial question
<faenil> drawing geometry is ok because dp rounds the value
<faenil> but drawing images --> we need to ship multiple assets
<faenil> greyback: may Zeus be with you (I know his thunderbolts are pretty good at fixing problems)
<Qiangong2> If anyone is here, I have an error when building.
<faenil> so, part of the problem is handled
<faenil> how do we handle images?
<Qiangong2> I keep getting this: ubuntu/libhybris/compat/media/media_codec_layer.cpp:51:40: fatal error: gui/IGraphicBufferProducer.h: No such file or directory compilation terminated
<faenil> do we really ship on asset for each GU value?
<faenil> one*
<Qiangong2> Anyone?
<Qiangong2> is anyone here that can help?
<faenil> Qiangong2: you need some patience, pal :)
<faenil> ogra_ maybe can help? ^
<Qiangong2> sorry :) i've just gone on here every day for the past 5 days and no one has answered
<aquaboy11> Hi
<aquaboy11> phablet-dev-bootstrap gives multiple not found repositories
<aquaboy11> Is there an up-to-date manifest available?
<Qiangong2> aquaboy11: phablet-dev-bootstrap works fine for me, no repository problems
<aquaboy11> I'll try again.. Fresh folder, phablet-dev-bootstrap, and hoping for the be at
<aquaboy11> Best*
<aquaboy11> Do I need to join or ask permission for some maybe?
<Qiangong2> no, i just did phablet-dev-bootstrap and it worked fine.
<Qiangong2> I'm on Lubuntu 14.04 by the way
<aquaboy11> I'm on 16
<Qiangong2> ah, could that be why?
<aquaboy11> Qiangong2 I don't think so. Unless the newer version of Ubuntu doesn't recognise a few specific gits
<dobey> Qiangong2: that error seems to suggest you're missing necessary components of the source for the device you're trying to build for
<Qiangong2> dobey: okay, what do I need to do then?
<Qiangong2> aquaboy11: looks like a few repositories may not have worked :)
<dobey> Qiangong2: i am not certain. what device are you building for? where did you get the source for it?
<Qiangong2> dobey: I'm building for the Samsung Galaxy Star Pro S7262
<Qiangong2> I've gotten the source code from http://github.com/logan2g
<Qiangong2> it's 10.1 source
<dobey> cm 10.1?
<Qiangong2> I've also tried http://github.com/Fire-Galaxy/
<dobey> what android is that?
<Qiangong2> Same result
<Qiangong2> Android 4.2.2
<Qiangong2> CyanogenMod 10.1 source
<dobey> i think you need at least android 4.4
<dobey> to build ubuntu
<Qiangong2> the Fire-Galaxy source is cm11.0 or android 4.4
<Qiangong2> Same error
<Qiangong2> I've also tried his cm12.1 or android 5.1
<dobey> ok, not sure.
<Qiangong2> *tree
<Qiangong2> He's built cm11.0 successfully using his tree
<dobey> i'd suggest trying the mailing list, or maybe xda forums.
<Qiangong2> I've tried :D
<Qiangong2> that's why i'm here
<dobey> i don't see any mail in the last week about galaxy devices, on the mailing list
<dobey> at least, not on ubuntu-phone mailing list
<Qiangong2> sorry, not that
<Qiangong2> I work usually on XDA
<aquaboy11> Can you build Ubuntu touch with 5.1.1 dobey?
<dobey> maybe
<Qiangong2> dobey: now i'm getting this: fatal: remote error: access denied or repository not exported: /CyanogenMod/android.git
<Qiangong2> I'm trying to resync
<aquaboy11> http://pastebin.com/9Lin3zCs
<aquaboy11> This is what I get
<Qiangong2> aquaboy11: is your internet connection just timing out?
<Qiangong2> I get this now: "fatal: remote error: access denied or repository not exported: /CyanogenMod/android.git" whenever I try to resync
<aquaboy11> No
<aquaboy11> Hi
<dobey> mariogrip: hey, how did the battery fix turn out? ready to put it into an image? :)
<mike00> hi all, I've got a problem with telegram notification: they don't arrive
<mike00> some one can help me?
<mike00> I saw the settings page and an alert appear saying "if you want to receive notification when you aren't using this app, login into your Ubuntu One account" and there are 3 buttons: login into Ubuntu One, ask me later, no notification
<mike00> If I click on the first button, the alert disappear and the notification switch is on
<mike00> but when I exit the settings page and reopen it the switch return off.
<mike00> with the 2nd and the 3rd is the same... :(
<mike00> what should I do?
<dobey> do you not have a U1 account logged in on your phone?
<mike00> yes
<mike00> I have tried to log out and then login
<dobey> how?
<mike00> from the settings app
<dobey> what channel are you on?
<mike00> channel?
<dobey> yes, stable? rc-proposed?
<dobey> ie, ubuntu-touch/stable/bq-aquaris.en
<dobey> in output of system-image-cli -i
<mike00> Where can I see it?
<mike00> on the phone?
<dobey> you can run "system-image-cli -i" in the terminal app, or via adb/ssh
<pmcgowan> mike00, did you ever flash your phone or is it as it was when you purchased it
<mike00> ok I'll do it
<dobey> or it's under "About" in system setting si think
<mike00> pmcgowan: I didn't understand...
<pmcgowan> mike00, did you buy the phone with ubuntu installed
<pmcgowan> and not flash it yourself
<mike00> Yes, I bought it with ubuntu
<mike00> channel: ubuntu-touch/stable/bq-aquaris.en
<dobey> ok
<Kepler-> Just got my tablet in. :D
<dobey> so where are you logging in to u1 at? you can't be doing it under the Accounts page of system-settings :)
<mike00> but with telegram notifications worked well until today...
<dobey> at least, not in ota10 or 10.1
<pmcgowan> it could be the service itself, that has happened temporarily
<dobey> i don't get notifications from telegram either, but that's mostly because nobody talks to me
<mike00> ahahah. but in the account page I can see
<mike00> I'm logged in...
<dobey> ok
<mike00> and I have ota10.1
<dobey> if you go to the updates page, does it show the "log in to u1" button?
<dobey> or does it show available updates? (or not updates)
<mike00> no...
<mike00> "The software is updated"
<dobey> ok
<dobey> open telegram, wait for it to log in and show your conversations, then click the triple line menu and go to Settings, and make sure Notifications is enabled
<dobey> if telegram is already running, i'd suggest closing it first, waiting a few seconds, and then opening it again
<mike00> the switched is off...
<dobey> turn it on :)
<mike00> the alert appears
<dobey> alert?
<mike00> I said about it before...
<mike00> it ask me if login to U1, ask later, or no notifications
<dobey> select login
<mike00> the switch is on
<mike00> but when I restart telegram the switch is off
<dobey> mike00: please file a bug at https://launchpad.net/telegram-app
<dobey> i'm not sure what is going wrong, but this doesn't sound right
<mike00> ok I'll do this
<mike00> I'll see now: in the settings page it says me : " last access today at 21:05"
<mike00> If I try to uninstall telegram or delete data?
<dobey> i don't know
<aquaboy11> http://pastebin.com/9Lin3zCs git repositories not found with phablet-dev-bootstrap
<aquaboy11> Is it outdated?
<mike00> is it correct https://bugs.launchpad.net/telegram-app/+bug/1571809 ?
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1571809 in Telegram app "can't receive notifications" [Undecided,New]
<mcphail> jhodapp: got your email on https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1449790 - thanks! Unfortunately, I don't have a working Ubuntu device any more, so I can't give you the required information immediately. Can you reproduce the bug on your device, following the steps in comment #26?
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1449790 in qtubuntu-media (Ubuntu RTM) "Fails to play a file with a # (hash symbol) in the path" [High,Fix released]
<aquaboy11> Where is the /external/gpg repository?
<jhodapp> mcphail, I can yes and I do test that quite regularly, so that's why I'm curious what your filenames are that don't work that have a '#' char in them
<mcphail> jhodapp: I've currently got android on my bq device, and I haven't added the same files to it yet. There was definite improvement in OTA10, in that the files would play. But they wouldn't play if selected by searching on the songs tab if another file was playing
<mcphail> jhodapp: I'll try to dig out the filenames from my other computer
<popey> mcphail: where is the #? Start / middle / end? In the folder or file name?
<popey> ta
<jhodapp> mcphail, ok, then I'd file a different bug against music-app as it may possibly be a specific issue with the music-app UI code
<mcphail> popey: in the containing folder. Something like "CD #2" or something
<jhodapp> mcphail, but the more specific the filenames the better in this bug report
<mcphail> jhodapp: Yes - sorry it is so vague. But I only kept OTA10 for a short time
<jhodapp> mcphail, not a problem, it just helps us more easily reproduce the issue which helps us fix it more quickly
<mcphail> jhodapp: yes - I have already been shamed-faced to pat mcgowan about the poor quality of my bug report ;)
<ogra_> is your subject "doesn't work" ?
<jhodapp> lol
<ogra_> (if not, the quality cant be that bad)
<mcphail> ogra_: no - it is "I hope snappy fixes this..." ;)
<ogra_> thats a proper attitude !
<jhodapp> Snappy will fix everything :)
<ogra_> definitely !
<mcphail> jhodapp: http://themcphails.uk/snappy.jpg
<jhodapp> haha, I like it
<popey> mcphail: jhodapp I just constructed a folder with #1 and #2 and put stuff in, music app found them and played them
<popey> (on rc-proposed)
<mcphail> popey: did you try to trigger the bug exactly as per https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1570469 ? (i.e. play a "normal" track. Whilst it is playing, use the search bar on the "Songs" tab to select a file with a # in the path. Instead of the new file playing, the original song restarts on my device...)
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1570469 in media-hub (Ubuntu) "Despite fixes in OTA10, there is still an edge case where a file with a '#' symbol in the path will not play correctly" [Medium,Confirmed]
<popey> mcphail: oh, yes, reproduced that!
<mcphail> popey: a very "edge" case...
<popey> still wierd
<mcphail> popey: Qt is weird. UTF16 is braindead
<popey> Failed to add track ' "file:///media/phablet/2541-1C26/Music/Space Walrus/CD #1/Proximity Mix.mp3" ' to playlist:  mpris.Player.Error.UriNotFound: Warning: Not adding track file:///media/phablet/2541-1C26/Music/Space Walrus/CD #1/Proximity Mix.mp3 to TrackList because it can't be found.
<mcphail> jhodapp: ^^
<popey> parsed_uri.path: /media/phablet/2541-1C26/Music/Space Walrus/CD
<popey> Warning: Not adding track file:///media/phablet/2541-1C26/Music/Space Walrus/CD #1/Proximity Mix.mp3 to TrackList because it can't be found.
<popey> ^ from media-hub
<popey> (pasted to bug)
<mcphail> Ta!
<popey> np
<popey> I'll be your proxy ubuntu phone user while you're on an android sabbatical ã
<mcphail> popey: you're my gdbserver!
<mariogrip> dobey: i'll push the images this week, but I will do it a little different I will create two new images pre-stable and pre-rc-proposed the pre-* channels is where I push ubports changes before pushing to the main channels, this way we make sure we don't break devices :)
<mariogrip> it will be automatically pushed to the main channels after 3 days if I don't stop it
<Acou_Bass> heey all, would anyone be able to recommend a slimport cable that they use that works with the nexus 4? ive tested 2 so far and theyve both been duds... took my phone to a shop to see if its the port thats duff and he advised me to try another cable -_- XD
<Espionage724> Hi, I'm interested in trying out Ubuntu Touch on a Nexus 4 and I'm trying to figure out the best channel to use; the OTA update notes and some other source seem to mention that the bq-aquaris channel is usable on a N4?
<ogra_> Espionage724, yes, it is
<Espionage724> should I use the bq-aquaris channel over stable? I'm searching around and it looks like some people reported better GPS on that channel over the Ubuntu one; is there any differences between the two channels?
<Acou_Bass> Espionage724: ive not had any problems using normal stable on my n4
<ogra_> the bq channel has the AGPS backend included and a bunch of extra scopes the other images dont have
<Espionage724> ah, alright
<Acou_Bass> extra scopes? anything interesting?
<Espionage724> does the rc-proposed channel recieve OTA updates?
<Acou_Bass> Espionage724: im fairly sure all channels get OTA - only thing that stops OTA is if you R/W the filesystem
<popey> Acou_Bass: going R/W doesn't stop OTA
<popey> Espionage724: rc-proposed gets OTA updates near-daily
<Acou_Bass> i thought it did?
<popey> sometimes multiple times a day
<popey> nope
<Acou_Bass> its pasted all over every guide for doing the R/W thing, DO NOT DO THIS ITLL BLOCK OTA UPDATES
<Acou_Bass> XD
<popey> where?
<Espionage724> the wiki page claims it does still https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices/
<Acou_Bass> ^
<Espionage724> well, delta OTA anyway (just re-read it)
<Acou_Bass> By default the system is read-only. You can switch to read-write mode, although this disables Ubuntu system upgrades.
<popey> well that's wrong
<Acou_Bass> hmm fair enough
 * popey files a bug
<Acou_Bass> was it true at one point and has since been fixed?
<mcphail> Espionage724: I think the "phablet-config writable-image" touches a file in the root directory which disables OTAs. If you simply remount rw, that won't happen
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-ubuntu-com/+bug/1571885
<popey> done
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1571885 in Ubuntu Developer Portal "Clarify what going R/W does" [Undecided,New]
<Acou_Bass> so i could eg. apt-get install emacs-nox without having to bother with libertine?
<popey> mcphail: again, no
<popey> it just makes it RW, it doesn't disable OTA
<popey> unless there's some magic file other than /userdata/.writable_image ?
<mcphail> popey: that's probably the one I was think of. That doesn't block OTAs?
<Acou_Bass> so how are the OTA updates handled if it updates a file that youve manually edited? will it just get overwritten?
<popey> you (may) lose your changes
<Acou_Bass> i dont think i would use it to actually change things, just install things like emacs hehe
<popey> heh
<Espionage724> does UT happen to support disk encryption?
<popey> not yet
<Acou_Bass> i thought the official supported way for doing legacy apps was libertine/a chroot in your home dir though, thus getting rid of the need for an r/w root... seems like an awful lot of trouble togo through for something that doesnt really have any major downsides besides the applications not being apparmoured/snappy packages
<Acou_Bass> hmm yep, ubuntu touch gives me the same warning
<Acou_Bass> NB: your device won't be able to receive OTA updates. be careful!
#ubuntu-touch 2016-04-19
<ahoneybun> mariogrip, some progress I see for bacon
<Espionage724> what is ubuntu-pd? I see it as a channel choice
<Stanley00> Espionage724: I think it's called Ubuntu Personal http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-publishes-impressive-road-map-for-all-of-their-ubuntu-products-488428.shtml
<Espionage724> on cdimage there's somethign called Ubuntu Pocket Desktop; never heard of it before
<Espionage724> ended up installing ubuntu-pd just to see what it really was; looks like regular touch only it comes with Firefox, LibreOffice, Gimp, and XChat-GNOME; clicking any of those however do nothing
<ziz15> hi everyone i just learn about ubuntu-touch and i'd like to ask:Can i install ubuntu-touch in a device other that the devices listed on site?thanks(sorry for my english)
<Stanley00> ziz15: you have to port it to your device in that case. Did you port any rom before?
<ziz15> Stanley00: no
<Stanley00> ziz15: hmm... in this case, I think it's nearly imposible. What is your device then?
<ziz15> Stanley00:if i use the installation guide could i manage to install ubuntu-touch?
<Stanley00> ziz15: first, try looking your device name on this page. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<ziz15> Stanley00: device is MANTA MID706 DUO POWER HD TABLET 7 4GB ANDROID 4.1
<Stanley00> ziz15: if it's not listed there, you have to follow this guide, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/porting-new-device/
<ziz15> Stanley00: ok i look into that..thanks man
<Stanley00> ziz15: you're welcome
<gnumdk> Hello
<gnumdk> I've got an issue on my Meizu MX4, no more lock screen, any idea on how to debug this?
<gihel> hey guys, I found the cause for at least one scope broken https://bugs.launchpad.net/news-scope/+bug/1572074 and I'm looking forward for the other one
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1572074 in News Scope "Le Monde scope broken" [Undecided,New]
<gihel> and for the second one https://bugs.launchpad.net/news-scope/+bug/1572080 first time I report a bug, tell me if I did something wrong !
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1572080 in News Scope "LibÃ©ration scope broken" [Undecided,New]
<knightwise> Feeling daring today and taking my ubuntu phone to work as my ONLY device
<knightwise> since i'm an entrepreneur I live off my phone so its going to be an interesting experiement
<knightwise> so far Gekko and telegram are behaving very well
<mcphail> knightwise: all or nothing is the only way ;)
<knightwise> mcphail: true. I imported my google contacts into Gekko and I can pretty much get around that way
<knightwise> I do have my ipad with me as a backup
<knightwise> just in case
<mcphail> knightwise: throw it away!
<knightwise> Dude :) I need to make a living
<mcphail> ;)
<knightwise> But i DO enjoy the somewhat spartan ubuntu phone.
<knightwise> not too many bells and whistles = less distractions
<knightwise> havent been brosing facebook or instagram needlessly today
<mcphail> knightwise: on a more serious note, I was thinking it would be useful to have a mailing list thread outlining the real-world problems we face using ubuntu as a solitary device. I was thinking of rustling something up with my own experiences
<knightwise> true.
<knightwise> there is a big gap between the "developer who loves to tinker" and the professional who needs to make a living
<popey> http://www.windowscentral.com/check-out-windows-10-pc-inside-tiny-foldable-keyboard-case
<popey> natty little device
<popey> imagine ubuntu on that
<ogra_> neat !
<ogra_> imagine ubuntu with aethercast on that ;)
<mcphail> popey: that black one looks like a Spectrum+. How the wheel turns!
<popey> yeah
<Sleep_Walker> nice
<mhall119> oSoMoN: can you give another UOS session about the webbrowser app and how you're making it work on both desktop and phone/tablet?
<oSoMoN> mhall119, the process hasnât changed since last time, but if you think thatâd be valuable, I guess I could
<oSoMoN> mhall119, when is UOS?
<mhall119> oSoMoN: May 3-5
<ogra_> hangouts !!!
<ogra_> http://i.imgur.com/gSPT5uj.png
<MCMic> Great, another Google-only technology in ubuntu touch :-/
<ogra_> MCMic, you can use any webrtc service
<MCMic> I donât get the point of using Ubuntu touch if itâs for using google services, the point of not using Android is to avoid Google.
<ogra_> point is that video calls work now
<MCMic> ogra_: Oh, so itâs a webapp on your screenshot?
<ogra_> MCMic, its just the browser
<MCMic> Ok, sorry, I jumped to conclusinos
<MCMic> conclusions*
<MCMic> Iâm just missing an XMPP client on Ubuntu touch, and a sync GUI for other things that google.
<ogra_> hangouts is simply most popular (and we use it to communicate in canonical)
<ogra_> they will all come
<dobey> i don't think you can avoid google, even if you were to go to mars :(
<ogra_> just a matter of time
<MCMic> I hope so :-)
<ogra_> dobey, mars ? dont you need amazon prime for that ?
<dobey> ogra_: i'm sure google provides the fiber connection though
<ogra_> ah, yeah ... monoplists ... screw them :P
<dobey> and yeah, i have to use google for a great many things; but i still don't want android
<ogra_> yep
 * ogra_ wishes the calendar would work though :/
<davmor2> MCMic: you can use the same enablement to run on webrtc too though I think
<ogra_> yes, in fact it *is* webrtc :)
<davmor2> ogra_: it does work for everyone that isn't you :P
<dobey> ogra_: well, since i can't select calendars other than my personal calendar for google in the calendar app, that's pretty useless anyway :)
<davmor2> ogra_: I stand corrected you and dobey
<ogra_> davmor2, well, i'm a bit ahead of time ... the patch is still landing (i hacked the UA ovveride in manually)
<dobey> davmor2: obviously you haven't tested it yet, if you think it works :)
<davmor2> dobey: calendar on the phone work it annoys the crap out of me when I'm on holiday
<ogra_> dobey, i *can* select my company calendar ... but since about two weeks it stopped showing events in the indicator ... no matter what i do ... so i miss all noticfications
 * ogra_ blames charles_ 
<ogra_> (and it is the same across all devices for me ... doesnt matter of phone or tablet)
<dobey> ogra_: well you can only select the primary calendar for that account right? not calendars owned by others that you are subscribed to, or other calendars you own?
<ogra_> dobey, right
<ogra_> but all events i care about are copied into my cal
<ogra_> and they show up on the today scope as well as in the app
<ogra_> the indicator only shows events in my private cal though
<ogra_> might be some oauth issue
<dobey> not for me. almost all the events i care about dealing with are in other calendars
<ogra_> in any case i'm missing meetings all the time :/
<dobey> ogra_: and the events all have alarms set as the notification method, in the google calendar web page?
<ogra_> dobey, yes ... they all stopped working all of a sudden
<ogra_> (on all devices arounmd the same time)
<ogra_> what i learned you should definitely not do is to delete the calendar on disk and then hit sync btw ...
<dobey> ogra_: weird; i just added an event to my personal calendar in google, re-synced (after dealing with several resync errors), and now the event shows up in indicator
<ogra_> wiped my calendart twice already
<ogra_> dobey, now do the same in your canonical calendar
<dobey> ogra_: i don't have that account on my phone, because there's no way in hell i want to type my password on my phone :)
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> well, i do ... and i rely on the notifications since the calendar works
<dobey> i really wish mir had support for being a synergy client
<ogra_> http://i.imgur.com/6qN8oQz.png
<dobey> then i could copy/paste it :)
<ogra_> as you can see there is a meeting tomorrow in my calendar ...
<ogra_> no indication of it in the indicator
<dobey> huh
<dobey> yeah, not sure what is causing that
<ogra_> i think the 2fa gets in the way somehow ... since that is the big difference between the accounts
<ogra_> but thats indeed a wild guess
<dobey> could be, but you should get sync failed errors
<ogra_> why ?
<ogra_> it syncs fine
<ogra_> (as you can see in the app)
<dobey> ogra_: if 2fa is the problem; because 2fa being the issue means it needs to re-authenticate
<dobey> ogra_: if you find the .ics file for that account in .local/share/evolution/ does the event have an alarm defined? or is this a recurring event?
<ogra_> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ grep -r "Snappy" .local/share/evolution/calendar/*
<ogra_> .local/share/evolution/calendar/1459439280.2411.0@ubuntu-phablet/calendar.ics:SUMMARY:Snappy Community Sync
<ogra_> .local/share/evolution/calendar/1459439280.2411.0@ubuntu-phablet/calendar.ics:DESCRIPTION:Sync on the community topics around Snappy.
<ogra_> it is re-curring (weekly)
<ogra_> how would i know if theer is an alarm defined ?
<ogra_> (whats the keyword)
<dobey> i don't recall the spec for that bit :)
<dobey> ogra_: VALARM i think
<ogra_> yeah, seesm to be
<ogra_> END:VALARM
<dobey> ogra_: i think the issue you're seeing might be that the VALARM is only defined on the first instance
<ogra_> ... and thats missing in the ics
<dobey> hmm
<dobey> charles_: ^^ is that the issue ogra has?
<ogra_> ok. it works if i manually add reminders in the calendar app
<ogra_> smells like we simply stopped to import that bit
<dobey> not sure
<dobey> it worked for me when i did it, so perhaps something weird going on there with recurring events
<charles> ogra_, so you're saying it's an issue with imported calendar events, but not ones created on the device with calendar-app?
<charles> renatu: ^
<ogra_> chit is an issue with importing the alarm setting it seems ... enabling the alarm loacally lists the events again
<ogra_> charles, ^^
<cariveri> Hi. is there a wy to pin favourite apps to the leftside bar?
<ogra_> cariveri, start the app ... open the launcher, long-pree the icon
<ogra_> *long-press
<renatu> ogra_, I think we have a fix for that on silo 9
<ogra_> cool
<renatu> ogra_, could you check if silo 9 fix your problem?
<ogra_> not today, sorry
<ogra_> (super busy with pre-release stuff)
<cariveri> ogra_: great:) thanks.
<peat-psuwit> awe_: How is NM 1.2?
<awe_> peat-psuwit, it's progressing.  There's a version in my PPA
<awe_> but not yet in a silo
<awe_> https://launchpad.net/~awe/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<charles> ogra_, could you mail me an .ics file before and after enabling the alarm locally to re-list the event?
<charles> ogra_, I'd like to see the diff, eg what's happening with the valarms
<ogra_> charles, hmm, i enabled the events everywhere now (seems a sync even populated that setting to the other devices now)
<peat-psuwit> awe_: Thanks
<ogra_> i should have backed up the ics file earlier :(
<charles> ogra_, if it happens again please do backup the ics file and ping me & renatu
<ogra_> will do
<peat-psuwit> awe_: Confirming that NM in your PPA works. rmnet devices disappear from 'nmcli device' and connectivity works.
<awe_> great
<awe_> working on getting that into rc-proposed... probably within the week
<awe_> fighting a regression with hotspot on krillin atm
<awe_> but otherwise it looks good
<awe_> thanks for your feedback
<peat-psuwit> awe_: BTW how hotspot works? It's grayed out on my device, so I guess there's some work to be done on my side.
<lotuspsychje> Maesh: check the porting url in topic
<lotuspsychje> Maesh: there is also the XDA forums as starting point no other projects
<Maesh> i tried following that guide
<Maesh> but i had some errors
<lotuspsychje> Maesh: wich device are you trying to port?
<Maesh> on phablet-dev-bootstrap the server couldnt be reached or something like that
<Maesh> im trying the BQ Aquaris E5s
<awe_> peat-psuwit, it only works on certain devices
<Maesh> Lite
<awe_> peat-psuwit, although I'm surprised it doesn't work on your device.  The system-settings code specifically checks device_name
<awe_> so no "mako"
<awe_> or "flo"
<awe_> what's your device_name set to?
<awe_> peat-psuwit, note... system-settings talks to the com.canonical.SystemImage DBus service to retrieve device_name
<awe_> might be the same as reported by system-image-cli -i
<peat-psuwit> awe_: w7, shares with all LG L90 models.
<awe_> not it also relies on the ConnectivityService ( part of indicator-network ) properly reporting "ModemAvailable"
<awe_> take a look at ubuntu-system-settings-0.3+15.04.20160407/plugins/hotspot/plugin/hotspot-plugin.cpp
<awe_> again, whether or not the icon is grayed out is controled there
<awe_> and it's all done via DBus queries
<awe_> so you should be able to figure it out via dbus-send
<Maesh> lotuspsychje?
<lotuspsychje> Maesh: not sure if it can be ported
<Maesh> lotuspsychje, why is that?
<cliftonts> Evening everyone. Would here be the right place to get a little help getting the emulator in the SDK working correctly?
<pmcgowan> cliftonts, did you see zoltan's email about downloading a premade chroot?
<cliftonts> pmacgowan, not that I know of.
<pat_> cliftonts, see his new release email on ubuntu-phone to see if it helps
<dobey> pmcgowan: what does that have to do with emulator?
<cliftonts> To be honest guys I'm not even sure of where you are talking about.
<pmcgowan> he has an issue with the chroot  building it I thought
<dobey> oh, perhaps
<dobey> but was asking about creating emulator
<pmcgowan> I corrrelated to the email he also wrote :)
<cliftonts> dobey, he is right, I am getting errors creating the chroot.
<dobey> cliftonts: why is it trying to create a 14.10 target?
<dobey> cliftonts: you should be creating a 15.04 target
<cliftonts> I'm glad one person knows who I am, but I have no idea who zoltan would be in the mailing list.
<cliftonts> No idea dobey
<popey> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg19837.html
<popey> thats probably the mail you were referring to pmcgowan . see ^ cliftonts
<popey> specifically the "known issues" part
<cliftonts> Framework 14.10 is the only option it gives me.
<dobey> huh
<taiebot> Hey i have a question do you get image updates when you have no sim card installed?
<dobey> taiebot: wifi?
<taiebot> dobey yes.
<dobey> oh i thought you were asking "how"
<dobey> yes, updates happen over wifi
<popey> yes
<popey> i dont have a sim in mine
<dobey> my mako has never had a sim
<taiebot> dobey. I was abroad this week end and connected on wifi and did not get any update
<cliftonts> Hah! Trust me to jump on board just before the issue is resolved.
<dobey> taiebot: from what channel?
<dobey> and what device?
<sergiusens> mhall119 how do you tell unity7 that you want the webbrowser to be your main browser?
<taiebot> dobey popey: rc-proposed mako from thursday. i normally expect one on friday and saturday
<cliftonts> popey, the fix suggested in that email does not work. Packages not found.
<sergiusens> mhall119 and another one, does running a container instance and the browser per se work for you?
<dobey> taiebot: there were definitely updates
<davmor2> cliftonts: don't install the sdk from the repo there is a ppa that you are meant to install it from. https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/platform/sdk/installing-the-sdk/
<sergiusens> ogra_ my tablet has shipped!
<cliftonts> Of course there is. Silly me for not expecting to work for it ;)
<taiebot> dobey popey i had a look at doing updates via the command line but the ouput was talking about key errors.
<cliftonts> My tablet began shipping but then changed its mind and went back to being a reservation.
<dobey> sergiusens: unity7 doesn't have a concept of "browser" itself; if you go to system settings, details, "Default Applications" the browser needsd to appear in the list for "Web" to be selected as the default
<ogra_> sergiusens, lucky you ... mine will arrive tomorrow (so susie can have the hand flashed one i use)
<davmor2> cliftonts: the package in the archive can't be updated as quickly as the ppa can and the whole system is updated like every 6 weeks so that isn't possible to do from an archive package really unfortunately
<dobey> taiebot: maybe you were on an unsafe wifi network that broke things? i definitely update my mako daily on wifi
<sergiusens> dobey thanks that was what I was looking for
<dobey> davmor2: guess you'll have to snap it then
<cliftonts> davmor2, of course. Bare with me, I've never poked around at this before.
<davmor2> dobey: I won't
<sergiusens> ogra_ she's into Ubuntu too? Lucky you (I only got my wife to switch her laptop; she's too addicted to whatsapp, we did a 2 week trial)
<taiebot> dobey me too was wondering if gsm network being roaming was triggering an error in checking for the download
<ogra_> sergiusens, i wont maintin a win or OSX laptop for her ... so yes, she is on ubuntu all the time ...
<ogra_> we both have nno whatsapp friends :)
<dobey> taiebot: not unless the network is doing naughty things
<taiebot> dobey: well i could donwload apps my daily updates of balls :-) should start playing this game
<dobey> taiebot: well, i don't know. all i can tell you is that it works fine here. buy me tickets/hotel for london next week and i'll go try it there too ;)
<cliftonts> Excellent! I've added the PPA and done update/upgrade. Now my system is broken.
<cliftonts> click-system-hooks.service couldn't start.
<cliftonts> I'm also getting this error that was present in the SDK too:
<cliftonts> ImportError: cannot import name 'commands'
<davmor2> cliftonts: I can't help you there I'm afraid, my knowledge ends at the page to install the sdk.
<cliftonts> Never simple is it?
<cliftonts> Trouble is I'm somewhat out of the loop. I haven't had the need to know anything about development until very recently.
<cliftonts> I wonder if purging the SDK and reinstalling might help, it's rather ancient my copy.
<dobey> cliftonts: what version of ubuntu is this even on?
<cliftonts> 15.10
<cliftonts> Interesting.... dpkg: warning: subprocess old pre-removal script returned error exit status 1
<dobey> hmm
<cliftonts> It looks like there is a library missing somewhere and it's crashing the install process.
<cliftonts>    from click import commands
<cliftonts> ImportError: cannot import name 'commands'
<cliftonts> I'd guess at something not being installed that it depends on.
<dobey> cliftonts: do you have python3-click installed?
<cliftonts> Nope but I'm betting I can't install it without resolving this issue.
<dobey> you should be able to
<dobey> not sure how you got click installed without the python package it needs
<cliftonts> Nope, it keeps telling me to run apt-get -f
<cliftonts> I can't install anything. Could I remove click and reinstall?
<dobey> yes, but i forget how to tell it to not run the scripts
<cliftonts> I can't uninstall either. My system has essentially ground to a halt!
<dobey> because you'll have to tell dpkg to not run the scripts when removing the package, otherwise it will try to run them and fail
<dobey> don't be so dramatic :)
<cliftonts> Why not? A little drama is good, who'd want to be boring?
<dobey> a little sure; but "ground to a halt" is overly so :)
<cliftonts> From a package management point of view it has.
<cliftonts> Come to think of it, from every point of view! This Lenovo is a bit of a letdown.
<cliftonts> how about dpkg --force breaks?
<dobey> i don't recall
<dobey> you /can/ just delete the script file from the dpkg database though
<cliftonts> Oh I'm so out of practice doing things the hard way!
<dobey> /var/lib/dpkg/info/click.{postinst,prerm}
<cliftonts> Bare with me, my laptop is being a snail
<cliftonts> I'm not getting anything coming up in that directory. Nautilus is just saying loading.
<davmor2> cliftonts: it is a huge directory I'm not surprised
<cliftonts> I'm doing it in terminal.
<cliftonts> So delete them and then apt-get -f again?
<dobey> yeah i wouldn't use nautilus
<dobey> yeah
<dobey> just those two though
<cliftonts> Nope
<cliftonts> It's still doing the same
<dobey> ?
<cliftonts> Yup
<yellowolley> anyone here using the Aquaris M 10 already?
<cliftonts> I have just downloaded python3.click and the software centre told me a later version is already installed when I opened the deb. Weird!
<dobey> downloaded from where? and what version?
<cliftonts> I just googled for it. I wanted to take a look at the package.
<cliftonts> The point is it is installed but my system can't see it.
<dobey> what does dpkg -l python3-click say?
<dobey> no, you probably downloaded the wrong thing
<cliftonts> ii  python3-click  0.4.40+15.10 amd64        Click packages (Python 3 interfac
<dobey> so then it is installed
<dobey> what does python3 -c "from click import commands" say?
<cliftonts> Yes but when I tried to install it via command line it behaved like it wasn't
<cliftonts> Good idea
<cliftonts> ImportError: cannot import name 'commands'
<cliftonts> import click works however so it is seeing the library as a whole.
<dobey> is gir1.2-click-0.4 installed?
<dobey> uhm
<dobey> do you have any python stuff installed in /usr/local/?
<cliftonts> yes
<cliftonts> Not sure, hang on
<dobey> i suspect you have a python package named "click" installed there, which is different from the ubuntu click stuff
<cliftonts> Yes, quite a lot by the looks of it.
<cliftonts> Yup
<dobey> that's your problem
<cliftonts> So, how to resolve this?
<cliftonts> Manually remove it? Manually copy one over the other?
<dobey> remove the "click" stuff from /usr/local
<cliftonts> Bingo!
<cliftonts> Not sure what it's doing now but it's not complaining so that must be progress.
<cliftonts> Right, thanks for all that dobey. Everything is back up and running again. Question is, can I create the emulator?
<dobey> you already created an emulator i thought
<dobey> kit != emulator
<cliftonts> I wasn't able to set it all up to run.
<dobey> the emulator running has nothing to do with the sdk creating a chroot
<dobey> cliftonts: what was the exact command you used to create the emulator?
<cliftonts> I create a virtual device and it says it needs to run and identify before I can autocreate a kit for it. Then it wants me to do the chroot and that's when I had the problem.
<cliftonts> I'm doing it in the SDK, not command line.
<dobey> oh
<dobey> yes, you have to start the emulator before you can autocreate a kit for it
<cliftonts> Until I saw someone post a command here I didn't even know the commands to do it. I've never done this before.
<cliftonts> I'm hoping once my new tablet arrives I'll be able to clear this machine and do a fresh install. That might help things a bit.
<dobey> oh, you created a "stable" channel emulator i guess
<cliftonts> Yes
<dobey> that's why it wanted to create a 14.10 chroot. :-/
<dobey> pmcgowan, davmor2: ^^ why is the emulator image so old in stable still?
<pc_magas> Fellows greedings, I managed to make my application into a .deb package from ionic framework but how can I test that the .deb is created perfectly. Can be installed to a default ubuntu machine?
<pmcgowan> dobey, it hasnt been promoted in ages, due to breakage
<dobey> pc_magas: i think you want #ubuntu-packaging perhaps
<pmcgowan> we are 1 fix away from promoting one
<cliftonts> It is now insisting on updating kits. I can feel myself growing older! lol
<dobey> pmcgowan: that's pretty awful considering we're telling people to use that for development :(
<pmcgowan> dobey, could not agree more
<pc_magas> Also does ubuntu phone installs lenses via .deb packages?
<pmcgowan> we just fixed a slew of issues
<dobey> pc_magas: no, it doesn't have lenses anyway; but / is a read-only partition on phone images
<cliftonts> pmcgowan: I'm constantly amazed at how much has been achieved with so little. My phone has many rough edges but it's still my favourite of any I've ever owned. I'm really looking forward to seeing the endgame.
<pc_magas> dobey, how apps (aka lens) in ubuntu are instelled. Eg I have made to make my application how do I distribute / test on my device?
<pmcgowan> cliftonts, that is truly great to hear
<dobey> pc_magas: follow the documentation on developer.ubuntu.com to build a click and upload it to the store
<cliftonts> pc_magas: Are you talking about desktop or mobile?
<pc_magas> cliftonts, mobile
<pc_magas> of course Ionic is a framework for making mobile application by combinind apache cordova and Angulas.js
<dobey> pc_magas: html5 apps are built in the sdk using cordova
<pc_magas> And I managed to create a .deb with it.
<cliftonts> pcmcgowan: I'm wanting to be part of that, to understand more about development and working with click. I've recently got a job as a software engineer. I can't think of a better time to take the plunge.
<pc_magas> dobey, the framework magically can build tmy app by using the ubuntu sdk
<dobey> pc_magas: i don't know about magically; but the sdk provides all the tools to build and package an html5 cordova app for the phone
<dobey> (and tablet)
<cliftonts> dobey: I think that is probably the thing I'm most unsure of. Designing for multiple platforms. I'm not artistic enough to create for one!
<cliftonts> Excellent! I now have a DIFFERENT error when doing the chroot.
<cliftonts> E: Failed getting release file http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/utopic/Release
<dobey> cliftonts: yes, because 14.10 is no longer supported
<pbrunier> doubting on buying the new tablet. Is it possible to install my own apps. Install from ordinary ARM repos without using a store or store account?
<dobey> cliftonts: i would recommend not trying to use the stable emulator image right now, because it's so old :-/
<cliftonts> Aah, so if I change my image it should work.
<dobey> pbrunier: not exactly; some legacy apps are installable via libertine into a container. but you can't install arbitrary apps in / as it's read-only
<pbrunier> dobey: Hmmm thats a big bummer. Would like to use it as a mobile Django dev computer
<dobey> pbrunier: you can certainly do that i think
<pbrunier> dobey: But it requires me to use a store right?
<dobey> pbrunier: i'm not quite sure what exact issue you're trying to solve/avoid with "the store"
<dobey> pbrunier: i'm not sure if you need to install a packge from the store or not to install legacy apps, but i think not
<cliftonts> BQ are holding my tablet hostage I'm sure of it. The status changed from reservation to processing last week, then went back.
<pbrunier> dobey: I dont like the store model, because they dont respect my privacy in general and don't give me full control over my bought software
<cliftonts> It is processing again today so fingers crossed"
<dobey> pbrunier: who is "they" exactly? and what do you mean "full control" exactly?
<dobey> i'm not sure what sort of privacy of yours is not respected by the ubuntu app store on the phone, but there are no privacy issues with it
<pbrunier> most appstores require an account and track my app usage
<dobey> obviously an account is required
<pbrunier> Why should that be obvious?
<dobey> not sure what you mean by tracking "app usage" though
<pbrunier> you dont need an account to use APT repositories
<pbrunier> why should we need an account for a phone or tablet?
<cliftonts> pbrunier: What are you doing on your tablet/phone which you need to keep so secret?
<dobey> sure you do; how else do you access the internet?
<dobey> cliftonts: that's a horrible way to argue the point :)
<cliftonts> I'm not sure anyone can do me any damage by knowing I downloaded uNav
<pbrunier> dobey: aaahh you know what I mean
<cliftonts> dobey: Perhaps so, but it's direct
<pbrunier> cliftonts: Nothing. But I own my privacy
<dobey> cliftonts: no, it implies privacy/security are irrelevant, and only needed for people doing bad things
<cliftonts> pbrunier: To give away all your privacy, or to hoard it will both ruin the experience for you.
<cliftonts> You need to give just a little in order to make the technology work for you.
<pbrunier> I just need mail, pycharm, openjdk, vlc
<pbrunier> I dont need cloud stuff
<cliftonts> dobey: I have the software centre on my laptop, but I don't need to use it. Isn't there any way to install a click from a file directly on the tablet?
<dobey> yes, there is
<dobey> via CLI
<cliftonts> So, in theory, his privacy concerns are answered.
<dobey> you can't download click packages from the store without an account though
<dobey> and you certainly can't make any purchases without an account
<pbrunier> thats understandable
<pbrunier> But I would like to be able to just run apt-get install or something similar
<cliftonts> No, but you can package them yourself
<dobey> pbrunier: then make a chroot and do so inside it
<dobey> pbrunier: https://askubuntu.com/questions/620740/recommended-way-to-install-regularcli-deb-packages-on-ubuntu-phone/623311#623311
<cliftonts> That's what I love about linux. It's all possible if you're willing to put in a little effort.
<pbrunier> ah very nice
<cliftonts> This emulation is the slowest booting phone in the known world I think.
<dobey> the terminal app is open source, so you can get a click externally from the store and side-load it
<dobey> or you can just use the libertine container instead and run xterm or whatever via libertine, and do it all in there i guess
<dobey> i haven't actually used the libertine legacy app stuff, so i don't know what all is possible there
<pbrunier> I will look into it tomorrow and decide if I buy the tablet. Thank you very much for the help dobey, cliftons
<cliftonts> No problem. Glad to be of help.
<cliftonts> Well, I'm off to try and get this emulator going. Thanks for your help.
<matv1> got my tablet today. I have to say I am superpleased with it. Despite knowing my way around the phones quite a bit, I had never really been hands-on with tablet mode and side-stage just rocks!
<matv1> it just works really well. As does convergence. Needs some more tuning but hey. Its really getting there
<matv1> thanks a lot to all you at canonical who dream this stuff up! Really nice job. And to the community devs as well of course :)
<Acou_Bass> matv1: coool! those tablets do look great ;D
<matv1> Acou_Bass the most asum thing is that you're holding a tablet but at the same time you're not. When you're working with it, you realise that the potential is so much more
<Acou_Bass> so does the tablet come with the pd-build, IE. the one with Xorg software installed too?
<matv1> i am not sure what pd-build means. but yeah it does a bunch of xorg dependent apps
<Acou_Bass> pd build i think stands for 'pocket desktop' or something - its the image that comes with things like libreoffice/gimp preinstalled
<matv1> oh. right thats the one. Its got libre office, gimp, firefox and some more
<Acou_Bass> thats awesome ;D
<matv1> yeah I know
<matv1> lol
<matv1> at the moment it is not possible to create those xorg wrappers yourself (if you want any other desktop apps on your phone or tablet) But I understand thats coming soon
<Acou_Bass> isnt libertine-container-manager installed?
<Acou_Bass> thats how i do it on my nexus 4
<Acou_Bass> xD
<matv1> yes it uses libertine. I just thought i wansnt really possible to use that for other desktop apps very easily
<matv1> at least I wouldnt know how to :)
<Acou_Bass> libertine-container-manager list will list the containers, then you do libertine-container-manager install-package -i containername -p packagename || true
<Acou_Bass> ;D
<matv1> thats it?
<Acou_Bass> however i think at the mo you need to create your own .desktop file so its still a bit bleh to actually do
<matv1> if all ther is to it is adding a .desktop file thats not really a problem
<Acou_Bass> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15874585/
<Acou_Bass> shows how the .desktop should loko too
<Acou_Bass> HOWEVER i think there is a libertine scope/GUI available (or will be soon) so maybe better to just wait fo rthat hehe
<matv1> hmm that looks simple
<matv1> X-Ubuntu-XMir-Enable=true is most of the magic apparently :)
<matv1> I am going to try tinkering with that for sure
<Acou_Bass> i think the /bin/true too, i have no idea what this 'true' binary does but it does seem to work
<matv1> cheers
<Acou_Bass> XD
<Acou_Bass> ;D
<Acou_Bass> i only used it on my n4 to install emacs - i didnt really try it any further than that besides the default ones that are already installed
<matv1> does that need read/write mode enabled on the OS?
<Acou_Bass> nah libertine is a container management thingy, IIRC the containers are installed in your home dir
<matv1> ah cool
#ubuntu-touch 2016-04-20
<mhall119> sergiusens: I just picked the webbrowser-app from the "default applications" settings
<mhall119> not sure what you're asking about with containers
<sergiusens> mhall119 I was talking about launching an app with its own desktop file using webapp-container (like the twitter click)
<sergiusens> mhall119 thanks for the former
<mhall119> sergiusens: ah, haven't tried that yet
<ogra_> sergiusens, you mean running them in parallel ? that works fine
<ogra_> sergiusens, http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/slack-webapp_0.1_all.deb ... take a look at that
<ogra_> (oh, i even made a branch ... easier to inspect https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/+junk/slack-webapp)
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/04/meizu-pro-5-ubuntu-edition-video-review
<ycerd> I have received an 8.8MB update `Ubuntu Version: 12' on my MX4. After downloading, it says `Installation failed'. What is wrong?
<ycerd> Here's the output from `sudo system-image-cli -vv`: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15941462/
<nhaines> mpt: a little off topic, but I need to poke someone about a merge proposal to lp:example-content.  Do you have any idea who might be good to talk to?
<mpt> nhaines, I donât sorry. The maintainer listed in Launchpad hasnât worked on Ubuntu for about seven years afaik.
<nhaines> Hm.  And my plan to harass dholbach fails because he's not online.  :)
<mpt> Maybe see if dholbach can appoint a new maintainer?
<mpt> ah
<nhaines> Or maybe Sebastian Bacher, but I'm not sure of his nick.
<nhaines> I think it's seb128 but my memorie's bad on that kind of thing!
<nhaines> mpt: anyway, thanks for the quick response.  :)
<RAOF> nhaines: You are correct; seb128 is the winning nick!
<nhaines> RAOF: great!  I've been staring at my screen for some 11 hours now,so it's all getting a little fuzzy.  ;)
<lotuspsychje> good morning sil2100
<sil2100> lotuspsychje: morning!
<lotuspsychje> excited for xenial launch? :p
<sil2100> In a way, yes ;)
<knightwise> is that today ?
<lotuspsychje> knightwise: tomorrow
<lotuspsychje> !xenial | knightwise
<ubot5`> knightwise: Ubuntu 16.04 (Xenial Xerus) will be the 24th release of Ubuntu. It is due to be released on April 21st. Discussion in #ubuntu+1 Await the release in #ubuntu-release-party
<knightwise> lotuspsychje: looking forward to the next LTS ,
<knightwise> running 1404 on my dell xps
<lotuspsychje> knightwise: great, will you upgrade or wait until .1?
<knightwise> will wait to .1
<lotuspsychje> ok
<knightwise> I'm taking my buntu machine to work so .. it HAS to be reliable
<lotuspsychje> i understand
<lotuspsychje> im helping testing bugs, so already running daily on all machines :p
<davmor2> dobey: because it keeps getting broken in new and interesting ways
<OrokuSaki> Damn it. I got curious.. I booted into a rootfs from a custom ramdisk to boot into .stowaways/ubuntu with a ramdisk from ArchLinux.. Then got hybris initialized like sailfish, then added some patches into cm11, and I get ION errors.. Then I tried recompiling ubuntu hybris to include the hybris LD path for the sailfish compiled android libs.. ION error.. I tried compiling mer libhybris... that doesn't work with your mir hwcom
<OrokuSaki> You guys need a caf branch, that is supported by canonical... I tried these 2 dudes caf branches, but they didn't work.. and I dont think those projects cover a lot of devices
<dpm> pitti, sil2100, is there a way to get a list of the languages (i.e. language packs) we preinstall on our phone images?
<sil2100> dpm: yes, in the seed (or just taking the list from the manifest)
<pitti> dpm: the images should have a manifest
<sil2100> dpm: let me fetch you that quickly
<OrokuSaki> gedit "build/core/main.mk add this to were the other device entires are: device/hp \ " if I had my vendor/hp and device/hp entries to that file... then it tries to build more hardware modules ie sensor.tenderloin.so and etc, but bombs on graphics
<pitti> or do they
<pitti> I don't see it on e. g. http://system-image.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/stable/bq-aquaris.en/krillin/
<OrokuSaki> I also tried taking the ubuntu folder from phablet and tossing it into cm11 and compiling the compat folder....
<sil2100> pitti: it's not on system-image
<sil2100> pitti: it's on cdimage, I have a script for easily fetching those
<OrokuSaki> I just came into hear to say.. YOU NEED caf. =) And.. "damn" nice FORK. !!!!
<OrokuSaki> One hell of a fork
<OrokuSaki> Mir sucks
<OrokuSaki> =)
<sil2100> dpm, pitti: the language-packs: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15945376/
<pitti> thanks
<OrokuSaki> But I did get libhybris working without the LXC container on ubuntu touch. \m/
<sil2100> dpm, pitti: those are the ones we currently ship
<dpm> thanks a lot pitti and sil2100!
<ogra_> pitti, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/vivid/daily-preinstalled/current/
<ogra_> thats the cdimage dir where system-image picks them up ... (and tehere is the manifest)
<sil2100> pitti: you can get earlier manifests when browsing http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu-touch/vivid/
<OrokuSaki> All that work... 2 years ago.. no more caf devices.. you guys suck! Except for ogra... Tadaow!
<sil2100> Or use lp:landing-team-tools get-image-manifest helper script
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> whats a caf device ?
<sil2100> Not sure, I thought you'd know - being the only one that doesn't suck!
<sil2100> ;)
<dpm> pitti, do you happen to remember if there is a CLI tool that returns language names from ISO codes?
<pitti> dpm: not a CLI tool, but simple enough to get from /usr/share/xml/iso-codes/iso_639.xml or /usr/share/xml/iso-codes/iso_639_3.xml
<dpm> thanks pitti. I seemed to remember there was a tool that read those, but perhaps I was mistaken
<pitti> dpm: we use that to generate http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/langpack-o-matic/main/view/head:/maps/languages and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/langpack-o-matic/main/view/head:/maps/countries which might be simpler to look at /grep
<dpm> thanks
<dobey> davmor2: the calendar does, you mean?
<davmor2> dobey: no the age of the emulator
<dobey> oh
<davmor2> dobey: Emulator keeps getting broken in new an interesting ways, everytime someone fixes it someone else breaks it
 * dobey blames mir
<dobey> must be mir's fault right? :P
<davmor2> dobey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phablet-tools/+bug/1565685
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1565685 in Canonical System Image "Ubuntu-emulator: Crash in new welcome wizard / browser" [Critical,Confirmed]
<ogra_> davmor2, did you notice that searching for packages on phone/tablet suddenly started showing snap packages ?
<davmor2> ogra_: no but I haven't searched recently
<ogra_> search for "filemanager" .... shows me an upnp-server snap
<davmor2> ogra_: search for ubuntu-core and I see webdm-app
<dobey> huh really?
<davmor2> ogra_: confirmed upnp-server-armhf when searching for filemanager
 * davmor2 blames JamesTait 
<ogra_> yeah, all his fault
<davmor2> oh wait it ogra_ snap that is showing it's all ogra_ 's fault
<dobey> hmm, canonical-pi2 is in there too
<JamesTait> ogra_, suddenly as in when?
<ogra_> JamesTait, dunno ... i installed my other tablet 10 days ago or so ... when i searched for filemanager there i definitely didnt have the upnp-server snap as return value
<dobey> the Erle stuff too
<JamesTait> ogra_, when did you first notice?  Just now?
<ogra_> yes, just setting up my new tablet
<JamesTait> Ack, and reproduced on my phone.
<JamesTait> Approximately 14 minutes ago we switched CPI to an upgraded environment, which is why I'm pointedly trying to narrow down the timeframe.
<JamesTait> We've also had several code rollouts over the last week.
<davmor2> JamesTait: it doesn't help that nothing on this page screams Snap app over Click app by the look of it other than the info part so you wouldn't notice it unless you are the dev of the snap app
<JamesTait> davmor2, that should never be an issue, because those apps should never even appear on a phone. :-/
<davmor2> JamesTait: Indeed but you broke it so now it does :P
<JamesTait> Well... we might have broken it before, but nobody noticed.
<davmor2> ogra_: told you it was JamesTait fault though didn't I, it has nothing to do with me always blaming JamesTait for store stuff at all you understand ;)
<mardy> mzanetti: the 1 line change that made the Ubuntu phone kick ass: https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/unity8/rotate-dash/+merge/292377
<ogra_> mardy, doesnt that break sidestage handling ?
<mzanetti> lol
<mzanetti> no, it doesn't
<ogra_> ah, i thought that was the reason it was held back for so long
 * ogra_ uses that hack since ages :P
<popey> haha, excellent mardy :)
<JamesTait> ogra_, did you unpublish that upnp snap, perchance?
<ogra_> JamesTait, not that i remember
<JamesTait> Just I'm not seeing it when I search for filemanager on my krillin now.
<davmor2> JamesTait: confirmed I don't see it now, I wonder ogra_ did you update it to 16?
<JamesTait> Heisenbugs!
<tsdgeos> sil2100: Mirv: who would be the best person to backport lttng-ust from xenial to vivid overlay?
<tsdgeos> sil2100: Mirv: i just compiled 2.7.1 on the phone without issues and it fixes the deadlocking problem i have with the vivid version
<ogra_> davmor2, nope, didnt
<realtribe> hi
<realtribe> i need a help to install ubuntu touch on nexus 7
<lotuspsychje> realtribe: whats going on mate
<realtribe> so..i tryed to install ubuntu touch but when i write "ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel --bootstrap" it answer flag error..
<realtribe> what i can do?
<ogra_> call ubuntu-device-flash with the proper command ?
<ogra_> and also never ever use the devel channel :)
<ogra_> its dead beef, not for bein used by anyone
<ogra_> (teh right command is "ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel= ....."
<ogra_> )
<realtribe> ookey now i try...but what is the complete command?
<realtribe> ookey i tryed but it aswer :"lorco@lorco-desktop:~$ ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/stable/ubuntu  2016/04/20 17:59:23 Expecting the device to expose an adb interface... device cannot be detected over adb"
<ubot5`> Error: Ubuntu bug 2016 could not be found
<ogra_> boot to recovery and make sure "adb devices" sees it
<realtribe> yes it aswer lorco@lorco-desktop:~$ adb devices List of devices attached  015d4b33e5380213	sideload
<realtribe> but don't work..
<realtribe> sideload? it's right?
<realtribe> lorco@lorco-desktop:~$ ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/stable/ubuntu --bootstrap 2016/04/20 18:08:49 Expecting the device to be in the bootloader... waiting 2016/04/20 18:08:50 Device is |grouper| Device grouper not found on server https://system-image.ubuntu.com channel ubuntu-touch/stable/ubuntu
<realtribe> and now?
<realtribe> please help me
<sebsebseb> ok so
<sebsebseb> I got my Ubuntu tablet came today :)
<sebsebseb> and I knew  that meant to apparatly use a bluetooth mouse and keyboard with it
<sebsebseb> read plenty of stuff saying that
<sebsebseb> etc etc
<sebsebseb> ,but yes I don't have  those currently
<sebsebseb> and so can't erally type on it
<ogra_> why not ?
<sebsebseb> only time the touch screen keyboard came up was to set up the wireless password
<ogra_> the OSK works fine on mine
<sebsebseb> and it comes up to unlock it as well that's it
<sebsebseb> it's  the HD version as well
<ogra_> same here
<sebsebseb> ogra_: oh how come you got the HD rather than FHD?
<ogra_> err, i got the FHD, sorry
<sebsebseb> I can move around   instead of the cursour on the touh screne, but I really can't type
<ogra_> anyway, the image should behave exactly the same (since it is the same rootfs)
<sebsebseb> ogra_: yeah I'll probably buy the FHD at a later date, when got more moeny as well :d
<sebsebseb> have both versions :d, but for now nope
<sebsebseb> I know very similar
<ogra_> so if you tap in a search field anywhere in the UI or in the browser url bar there is no keyboard coming up ?
<sebsebseb> yep from what I have seen
<sebsebseb> I have tried gedit I have tried
<sebsebseb> browsers I have tred...
<sebsebseb> nothing
<ogra_> gedit wont work
<ogra_> none of the X apps will be hooked up to the OSK
<ogra_> use the native apps
<sebsebseb> oh ok that explains it
<sebsebseb> I think
<sebsebseb> ok comes up in the default brwoser
<ogra_> (neither gedit, libreoffice, firefox, gimp or xchat will have OSK)
<realtribe> help help help..please..i loockig for channel for grouper version..
<ogra_> realtribe, grouper ?!?
<ogra_> realtribe, thats not supported since two years or so
<ogra_> was dropped long ago ... use android ...
<sebsebseb> ogra_: so it's for Firefox and thigns like that, that need the bluetooth keyboard?
<sebsebseb> ogra_: any recomendations on bluetoothe mous eand keyboard
<sebsebseb> I been looking at amazon
<sebsebseb>  etc
<sebsebseb> if I order something in the next hour and a half or so I would even have by tommorwo I Think
<sebsebseb> with one day delivery option
<realtribe> what i can use like same grouper?
<popey> sebsebseb: logitech k480
<ogra_> sebsebseb, i have a k480 from logitech
<ogra_> its a bit clunky ... but thanks to the slot at the top yu can actually use the whole set like a laptop
<ogra_> sebsebseb, mediamarkt sells them in germany ... in case you dont want to wait for delivery ;)
<realtribe> what i can use like same grouper
<lotuspsychje> ogra_: for real?
<realtribe> please help me..
<ogra_> lotuspsychje, yes, they are real k480 keyboards
<lotuspsychje> cool
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> realtribe, you mean another tablet ?
<ogra_> the flo works ... the deb seems to have a community supported image
<ogra_> or you could order a bq M10 ...
<sebsebseb> popey: ogra_ ok good my o2g device is working  just tried a keyboard like that a normal USB one
<ogra_> yeah., that works too
<popey> super
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah that's the lilke recommended bluetooth at the moment, but seems expensive,  plus it's not laminated
<realtribe> ogra  i need to fix this tablet..how i can do?
<sebsebseb> ogra_: I could order something on amzon and get tommorow I think if do it in he next hour or so
<ogra_> realtribe, install android
<sebsebseb> ogra_: popey what's a good see in the dark as well bluetooth keyboard, I don't think the k480 has that feature
 * ogra_ doesnt know 
<sebsebseb> seems linksys got another one that is for like 60 pounds though
<sebsebseb> and that's just the keyboard
<sebsebseb> or there are cheapewr makes on amazon even
<popey> no idea
<sebsebseb> popey: ogra_ What's so good about the k480 really what makes it so great, why's it so hyped up? other than being from september 2015 so new
<sebsebseb> same for the recommended mouse I guess, but not as much
<ogra_> it has that slot at the top
<sebsebseb> which slot?
<ogra_> there is a slot at the top where you can put the tablet in so it behaves like a laptop
 * Mirv votes for buying a shell account for IRCing to tsdgeos
<ogra_> just a kind-of stand
<sebsebseb> oh?
<Mirv> hard to answer, and I won't remember it tomorrow
<sebsebseb> but I saw some other keyboard on amazon with a free stand with it for a lot cheaper as well
<sebsebseb> ogra_: k480 doesn't have backlit though?
<ogra_> try to use a free stand with the thing on your lap when sitting on a sofa :)
<sebsebseb> apparnatly backlist keyboards are meant to be so good, and I don't  have one
<sebsebseb> ogra_: with he thing Ubuntu tablet?
<ogra_> the whole thing ... kbd and tablet
<sebsebseb> I am kind of up for buying two blue tooth keyboards with reason
<popey> I have had an illuminated keyboard
<sebsebseb> same for mouses
<popey> They're overrated
<dobey> hmm
<sebsebseb> maybe a like k480 and  then something illuminated
<ogra_> popey, totalyl not !
<popey> i dont tend to use my computers in the dark, underground
<popey> also, I tend to know where the keys are :)
 * ogra_ doesnt want to miss his backlit kbds ... but for the tablet i found the builting stand/slot thing more important
<ogra_> *builtin
<sebsebseb> even on this lap top I can type in the dark, I am atouch typist to, but  would be nice at times to see someo f the keys actsaully
 * sebsebseb is a vampire likes the dark
 * sebsebseb must feed on popey as a victum
<sebsebseb> Canonical geek blood tastes better than normal humans apparnatly h eh
<sebsebseb> ogra_: you think a good stand is better for tablet?
<sebsebseb> that's something else I am not sure about standds etc
<ogra_> sebsebseb, i like to use the tablet with keyboard like a laptop ... i.e. on my lap ... with no desk around
<sebsebseb> ogra_: what stand would you recommend for the Ubuntu tablet?
<sebsebseb> ideally on amazon since I might buy something in the next hour or so from there
<sebsebseb> for the tablet/s
<ogra_> dunno, anything that keeps it upright i guess :)
<ogra_> i dont have that prob since i have that logitech kbd
<ogra_> dont need an extra stand
<sebsebseb> ogra_: would this be worth buying, or is it so cheap for a reason: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Keyboard-Wireless-Backlit-Android/dp/B00ZBN6JSI/ref=sr_1_50?ie=UTF8&qid=1461083421&sr=8-50&keywords=bluetooth+backlit+keyboard
<davmor2> sebsebseb: I would personally get the logitech bt keyboard it has a slot for phone/tablet in it the it functions like a laptop
<genii> I have a nice clear acrylic stand that works great and was like $5 at Walmart
<sebsebseb> davmor2: the m480 you mean?
 * ogra_ guesses he means the k480
<sebsebseb> yep the k480 I meant
<davmor2> k480
<sebsebseb> davmor2: so it has some kind of stand as part of that for tablets and phones?
<ogra_> it has the slot at the top
<ogra_> you plug the tablet in and it stands like a laptop lid
<davmor2> sebsebseb: http://www.johnlewis.com/logitech-k480-multi-device-bluetooth-keyboard/p1803195?sku=234130711&kpid=234130711&s_kenid=8749aa3c-f8a8-4a46-9ab0-c626db0ddf20&s_kwcid=402x354964&tmad=c&tmcampid=73
<sebsebseb> I know it seems meant to buy the k480 really,  but I kind of want a lamanted one to,  so maybe I'll buy a seperate lamanted one as well. such as the one I linked to?
<ogra_> that yellow thing at the top is a slightly angled slot where you can put the tablet in
<sebsebseb> davmor2: yeah there's some kind of bundle on amazon for  the grey one
<ogra_> in the end any BT keyboard will do
 * ogra_ used an old logitech di-novo in the beginning before he had the k480
<sebsebseb> oh so that's for putting tablet in ok
<sebsebseb> what about the mouse?
<ogra_> scroll the picture gallery down a bit
<sebsebseb> and hold on be right back or back soon
<ogra_> there are pics with a phone sitting in the slot so you get an impression
<davmor2> sebsebseb: or just watch the video on my link
<bhdouglass> Hey, beuno or jamestait or whoever can help me out here. uApp Explorer is getting inconsistent results from the click store api, is something wrong with the api? For example, this page: https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/search?page=6&size=500 usually gives me a full page of results, but occasionally when refreshing it, it will be empty.
<beuno> bhdouglass, hi!
<beuno> we deployed a big update to that service today
<beuno> so this is interesting
<beuno> bhdouglass, we'll look into that and get back to you
<bhdouglass> Prefect, thank you! uApp Explorer has been adding and removing apps today, the users have started to notice! :)
<ogra_> "deployed and upgrade" is the new "we broke the world" :)
<ogra_> (this is the store people followint the snappy team here ... )
<ogra_> **following
<davmor2> ogra_: then stop deploying and upgrading now wonder the world is so broken
<ogra_> where would be the fun in that
<ogra_> also ... if we dont break everything every second update, how the heck would the sentence "snappy will fix that" still work
<realtribe> ubuntu
<ogra_> ubuntu !
<davmor2> î¿\o/î¿ ubuntu î¿\o/î¿
<sebsebseb> davmor2: oh ok I see,  it can fit more than one in it even
<sebsebseb> davmor2: looks like it's that amazon bundle offer or something then
<sebsebseb> ogra_: what does x386 in this one mean? https://www.amazon.co.uk/TeckNet-Illuminated-Ultra-Slim-Li-polymer-Rechargeable/dp/B00YNKO7F2/ref=pd_bxgy_147_img_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=JSDCG468GB031W9RCMSQ
<sebsebseb> popey: ^^^
<popey> sebsebseb: model number?
<sebsebseb> popey: there are a few options
<sebsebseb> popey: I think it's to do with size
<sebsebseb> look on the page
<popey> it's the model number
<popey> http://www.tecknet.co.uk/x366.html
<sebsebseb> popey: it sas like ipaid air and pro and such on there to on amazon
<sebsebseb> and then the prices are differnet to
<popey> i know
<sebsebseb> what does it really mean then?  that the other one is better for a ipad pro etc?
<popey> click them and you will see
<popey> the different models fit various apple devices
<sebsebseb> popey: oh is that one only really for Apple devices?
<wesleymason> bhdouglass: if you see any more issues with the search API you can also ping me
<bhdouglass> thanks wesleymason!
<beuno> bhdouglass, it should be fixed
<beuno> let us know if not
<bhdouglass> thanks beuno, I'll check it out! Out of my own curiosity, what was the problem?
<beuno> bhdouglass, here's too much information
<beuno> 4 < wes> nessita: beuno: one of the app servers on every 4th or 5th hit was returning an empty result and then squid was caching it...I've killed the cache and restarted gunicorn which has stopped it occuring but pulling the
<beuno>              logs down to figure out *why*
<bhdouglass> weird!
<bhdouglass> It seems to be fine now, I'll have uApp Explorer re-import everything, apologies for the increased traffic!
<wesleymason> bhdouglass: bring it on, it's all good testing :):
<bhdouglass> challenge accepted!
<wesleymason> https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7abB06u9bNzA8lu8/giphy.gif
<cliftonts> Evening everyone. My emulator saga continues. I've got them booting now but it doesn't matter what channel I choose only one of them actually allows me to unlock the phone, the others don't respond to my mouse.
<cliftonts> The one that does respond doesn't show up as booted in the SDK so I can't set the framework for it.
<cliftonts> So what am I doing wrong?
<Chuck-> is phablet-dev-bootstrap still the goto way to get the ubuntu-touch source for building? The manifest for repo doesn't seem to have been updated in quite some time
<dobey> cliftonts: which channlel is the one that did boot?
<cliftonts> UbuntuSDK i386
<cliftonts> But for whatever reason it has that kit but the SDK doesn't recognise it has booted.
<dobey> cliftonts: no, that's not the channel
<dobey> cliftonts: stable, rc-proposed, etc are channels
<cliftonts> No, but I have no idea how to discover the channel now
<dobey> cliftonts: run "system-image-cli -i" inside the emulator
<cliftonts> I don't understand. How do I run that inside the emulator? Install terminal?
<dobey> cliftonts: yes, or using phablet-shell or adb shell to connect to the emulator
<cliftonts> I can't do that if the SDK thinks it hasn't booted can I?
<dobey> i don't really know anything about what the sdk requires to connect to the emulator
<cliftonts> ok
<cliftonts> Hmm, the terminal won't install.
<dobey> if running "adb devices" shows the emulator in the list, you can connect to it
<dobey> you did enable developer mode inside the emulator itself, right?
<cliftonts> Ok, but I've never done that outside of the sdk. No idea of the commands.
<dobey> i don't know if it's enabled or not
<cliftonts> Not yet, no. I've been focussed on trying to get one to boot properly.
<dobey> well, if it's not in developer mode, i don't think the sdk will see it
<cliftonts> Aah, perhaps some come with it enabled as default then.
<dobey> i don't know
<dobey> i know you can't use the current stable image with the sdk, because it's far too old
<cliftonts> Bingo, it's recognised now.
<cliftonts> adb shell opens up saying vivid vervet (development branch)
<dobey> ok
<cliftonts> channel ubuntu-touch/vivid
<dobey> that channel seems wrong, but eh
<cliftonts> But it's working. That's the easy bit done. The next challenge is to compile an app I'll be taking over. I suspect I will be in for repeated headaches but I need that learning curve.
<cliftonts> Funny thing is I was told that rc-proposed had the mouse fix in it to allow me to unlock. But that's not working.
<cliftonts> How would I go about doing an update via command line? Can I just apt-get upgrade or is there a different method on touch?
<Chuck-> ls
<AuroraAvenue> Chuck, right on man, right on !
<Chuck-> Atleast i didnt pasted my middle click buffer again three times :)
#ubuntu-touch 2016-04-21
<PLA1> Hi. Trouble creating a Kit. I have tried on several machines 14.04, 15.10, 16.04. I have a BQ M10 tablet. The Kit creation fails with: The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<PLA1> ubuntu-sdk-libs:armhf : Depends: ubuntu-html5-container:armhf  Complete log here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15958310/ What is best route for getting the SDK up and running? TIA, PLA
<Espionage724> hi; was wondering if Ubuntu Touch was getting a bump to 16.04 at the same time it releases on the desktop (tomorrow)?
<sebsebseb> Espionage724: no I don't think so
<sebsebseb> Espionage724: since Ubuntu Touch releases are done a bit differnetly
<Espionage724> ah
<sebsebseb> and there was just a major update OTA 10
<sebsebseb> Espionage724: it will say like based on Ubuntu 15.04  0r 16.04 or whatever in the info, but
<sebsebseb> it doesn't follow the desktop relase cycle I would say
<sebsebseb> does it's own thing
<sebsebseb> major updates every few months or so it seems
<sebsebseb> proper over the air updates
<sebsebseb> Espionage724: it's also quite differnet in a good way from Desktop Ubuntu :)
<Espionage724> nice; thanks for the info
<sebsebseb> altough now with the tablet can start installing DEsktop software on it to
<sebsebseb> comes with things like FIrefox by default :)
<sebsebseb> got mine what's now yesterday for me :)  well the cheaper one, I'l get the other later on.  but that was my 3rd Ubuntu touch device :D
<sebsebseb> Espionage724: buy a tablet if you want something interesting with Ubuntu Touch
<sebsebseb> the BQ M10 yes
<Espionage724> I have a Nexus 4 currently; I started using Ubuntu Touch a few days ago and so far it's pretty nice
<sebsebseb> Espionage724: yeah I think you can get some of the converged apps working on that to actsaully
<sebsebseb> but the actsual Ubuntu devices are nice
<Espionage724> ah
<sebsebseb> Espionage724: I would of had a NExus a few years back, 2012 bu was sold out etc
<sebsebseb> Espionage724: so no I don't have a NExus,  so far trying to buy all the Ubuntu touch devices though, but money doesn't quite align
<sebsebseb> however three out of the currennt six not bad :d h e h
<sebsebseb> or make that 7 even if the versions of  the Ubuntu tablet count as being differnet enough
<Espionage724> ah; yeah I picked up a N4 back around launch and ended up selling it shortly aferwards; just recently I bought another for like $60 though
<sebsebseb> Espionage724: wehre did you buy from?
<sebsebseb> and yeah a NExus whatever only point really to buy enough would be to put other OSes on, not sure how to do that
<sebsebseb> altough stock Android is meant to be quite nice too
<sebsebseb> Espionage724: NExus 4 is the old one?
<sebsebseb> the thing they started doing UBuntu touch with?
<sebsebseb> I Think so?
<Espionage724> eBay; won it in an auction but the average price is about $50-$80 depending on what size you get; yeah the N4 was the first Nexus to get Ubuntu Touch
<Espionage724> the N7 2012 got a release for regular Ubuntu desktop first though, but I don't think it ever got updated to Touch
<MarkusDB1> Hi, I'm looking for a really easy to install on android tablet. I know there is ready made tablets currently, but I want it cheaper. Is the nexus 7 (2013) a good option?
<lotuspsychje> !devices | MarkusDB1
<ubot5`> MarkusDB1: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: nexus7 wifi model works like a charm
<MarkusDB1> lotuspsychje: What I like is that it's from 2013 (plenty of full forums) and also is avaiable for about $100 on ebay currently.
<lotuspsychje> yeppers
<lotuspsychje> i bought me a new nexus7 specially for ubuntu touch
<MarkusDB1> I'm about to get one
<MarkusDB1> just realized that 1920x1200 tablets had gotten expensive
<MarkusDB1> so the nexus 7 seems like a nice option
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: or buy a BQ m10
<MarkusDB1> google might have made too many, since there seems to be stockpiles being sold off.
<kurros> how does recovery mode work on the M10 for ubuntu-device-flash touch? I got the recovery-frieza.img from http://people.canonical.com/~jhm/avila/ but can't figure out how to make ubuntu-device-flash happy. When i choose "reboot to bootloader" it sits at a black screen with "=> FASTBOOT mode..."
<MarkusDB1> lotuspsychje: yeah, I know that is about $100 more though
<MarkusDB1> lotuspsychje: if you're very used to linux and the command line, and no backups needed of tablet.. how long would you estimate it takes to install and get going on the nexus 7?
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: 10min
<MarkusDB1> ah great =)
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: just follow the install wiki in topic
<MarkusDB1> ah great
<MarkusDB1> lotuspsychje: thanks for your friendly support =)
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: no sweat :p
<MarkusDB1> Is it also possible to run "desktop" ubuntu on the nexus 7, or is that included in the touch version (like a mode)? I'm a total ubuntu touch noob, so trying to figure it all out.
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: ubuntu-desktop is for running on laptops, desktops and x86 tablets
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: ubuntu-touch is installed on specific devices, supported
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: with the new 16.04 and unity8, it will be able to run unity8 on x86 tablets aswell
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: so you will have an ubuntu-touch feeling, on so many devices
<MarkusDB1> I was wondering if I could get an experience similar to a laptop with ubuntu tough and an external usb-keyboard?
<MarkusDB1> *ubuntu touch
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: of course
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: both android and x86 devices with blutooth keyboards
<MarkusDB1> any x86 device that is an easy install currently for 16.04?
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: but your choice if you will choose for an android like devices that supports touch, or buy an x86 tablet with unity8/16/04
<MarkusDB1> I've seen microsoft is really pusing away those atom z bay trail tablets for cheap bundled with windows.
<lotuspsychje> yeah, they recenlty sacked 10.000 workers at intel lol
<MarkusDB1> lotuspsychje: what x86 tablet device should I look for?
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: well in theory, every tablet that can run windows8 could be installed ubuntu-desktop on
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: just keep in mind, some devices are harder to tweak
<lotuspsychje> like custom kernels n such
<MarkusDB1> I've understood that, but it there seems to be..  UEFI-locked??/DRM problems with some devices?
<lotuspsychje> in some cases that could be
<MarkusDB1> any x86 compatible device list yet?
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: hmm thats gonna be hard to find, as so much brands out there
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: best way is really install it, and see..
<MarkusDB1> takes time to order though =)
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: wait the 16.04 release, and follow the unity8 development
<MarkusDB1> Yeah I guess so
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: im sure youtube will hit much stuff pretty soon!
<MarkusDB1> yeah I guess so
<MarkusDB1> I think I get an ARM tablet now, and the x86 after the summer
<MarkusDB1> since canonical is somewhat invested with the ARM too with the aquaris
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: i think the goal will be able to install ubuntu on all devices
<MarkusDB1> that is a great goal
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: i have already bq 4.4, nexus7,netbook and desktop all running ubuntu
<MarkusDB1> great
<MarkusDB1> I got a ton of machines running ubuntu, no tablets or phones yet though
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: experiment with unity8 yourself then on your machines?
<MarkusDB1> Yeah I guess so. I got a pretty specific application for the tablet though.
<MarkusDB1> so even if I can play around on my other machines, I doesn't really help me =)
<lotuspsychje> ok
<lotuspsychje> what kind of app is that MarkusDB1
<MarkusDB1> it's a monitoring application
<MarkusDB1> I want to monitor some stuff..  with the tablet
<MarkusDB1> think.. "mini" digital signage
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: terminal based?
<MarkusDB1> browser based.
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: did you test it on webbrowser-app already?
<MarkusDB1> yeah
<lotuspsychje> great
<lotuspsychje> well nexus7 is cheap indeed and working great on touch
<MarkusDB1> I want ubuntu for ssh remote management amongst other stuff
<MarkusDB1> btw.. speaking of intel.. they seem to be reconfiguring to mobile/vr.
<MarkusDB1> and it seems rough going =)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> technology is caging mankind
<MarkusDB1> overall I feel that cpus have stagnated, only benefit is great deals on ebay =)
<bhdouglass> hey beuno, did your log searches bring up anything? It seems uApp Explorer was adding and removing apps again :(
<beuno> bhdouglass, wes has been firefighting a bit today as welll
<bhdouglass> oh no! I'm sorry guys, I hate it when that kind of stuff happens. I think I'll turn off the app parsing for now
<bhdouglass> beuno / wesleymason if you guys don't mind, could you let me know when you get the fire out?
<wesleymason> bhdouglass: for all intents and purposes the fire should be gone, we switched back to our old API instance, the disappearing/reappearing apps was probably during the fire
<bhdouglass> wesleymason: thanks for the info, I'll leave uApp Explorer running and let you guys know if it runs into any problems again.
<wesleymason> bhdouglass: ta!
<peat-psuwit> abeato: I've sent a pull request for oFono. Could you please have a look? https://github.com/rilmodem/ofono/pull/239
<saavento> hi
<saavento> is there anyway to install a media player on the tablet?
<ogra_> there is one installed
<saavento> yes
<ogra_> (actually a media player and a music app)
<saavento> but cannot reproduce streaming
<saavento> or can it?
<ogra_> yeah, thats on the TODO i think
<peat-psuwit> abeato, awe_: I've sent a pull request for oFono, could you please have a look? https://github.com/rilmodem/ofono/pull/239
 * ogra_ blames jhodapp for only working 24h per day
<abeato> peat-psuwit, we'll do, thanks
<ogra_> you really need to double that !
<jhodapp> ogra_, haha
<jhodapp> ogra_, so we need to invent a time warping device so I can work more than 24h
<jhodapp> saavento, what type of streaming?
<Sleep_Walker> I'll buy it too, I can use it for sleep
 * ogra_ would be happy with .m3u8 support :)
<dobey> jhodapp: we have those; they're called amphetamines :P
<jhodapp> dobey, ha!
<saavento> jhodapp rmyp or rstp or even m3u8
<jhodapp> saavento, yeah not set up to do any of those yet
<saavento> typo: rmtp not rmyp
<saavento> oks just asking
<saavento> very happy with the tablet :)
<ogra_> i got vlc running in a libertine container in /home/phablet here ...
<ogra_> sadly it is useless due to X11 not being accelerated in any way
<saavento> ogra_ did you have to change ro to wr on the partition?
<ogra_> no
<saavento> oks
<ogra_> i have a hackish script to create a container in the writable space
<saavento> :)
<ogra_> that saves me from touching the readonly partition
<saavento> yes i dont't want to mess with that
<saavento> for the moment :)
<_5a54a_> Hello
<_5a54a_> Did receive my BQ Ubuntu tablet.
<_5a54a_> (pre-order)
<_5a54a_> I am not clear about some things on this tablet
<_5a54a_> Is the bootloader locked? How to activate FDE? Is it save to use apt-get?
<ogra_> the bootloader is never locked on any bq devices
<ogra_> for full desktop experience you need to attach mouse and kbd ... or you can toggle the switch in the session indicator
<ogra_> and no, apt-get on the normal system shouldnt be used, but you can create a libertine container to use it in for installing additional apps with it
<_5a54a_> Thank you! Have you/anybody tried to change OS (from ubuntu to ubuntu-gnome or something else) on this tablet
<ogra_> (why would i :) )
<ogra_> if i want a laptop UI i use it on a laptop :)
<_5a54a_> Okay. Fine. I am already using ubuntu-gnome on my laptops, but might also be a good experience on the tablet.
<_5a54a_> FDE: I ws referring to full disk encryption
<_5a54a_> Just wondering if the OS can be replaced easily.
<dobey> _5a54a_: to use gnome you would need to build a whole new image and phone os built around gnome itself, for it to be particularly useful on a phone/tablet
<ogra_> _5a54a_, lol
<dobey> there is no disk encryption yet on the phone/tablet images
<ogra_> _5a54a_, *that* FDE is on the roadmap ... but might probably wait til the phone and tablet switches to a snappy base
<dobey> and yes, you can replace the OS easily, but it will probably be a poor experience if you do
<_5a54a_> snappy base is on 16.04? So FDE will arrive soon :)
<_5a54a_> Any how-to available to change to OS. Just to try.
<_5a54a_> ?
<dobey> 16.04 and snappy on the phone is probably a bit far from "soon"
<dobey> i'm sure there's probably a "how to install a linux os on an android device" or 50, somewhere on the web
<ogra_> yeah, perhaps a year out or so
<ogra_> the phone uses its own archive and is still based on 15.04
<ogra_> i.e. there is no systemd yet
<popey> I just updated my rc-proposed e4.5 and the apps scope is blank
<_5a54a_> Well, then I just have to wait for a year to see FDE. Will search on the how-to.
<ogra_> i noticed it was a biot slow to refresh on my MX4 this morning when i upgraded
<ogra_> popey, oh, refreshing it now gets me an empty one as well
<ogra_> _5a54a_, the update mechanism kind of relies on being able to access the partitions ... if you tinker with it it will likely break ...
<dobey> ogra_: i'm sure it will break anyway if one is attempting to install ubuntu-gnome on it
<ogra_> heh, yeah
<ogra_> popey, i wonder if it is a bandwith issue due to release day
<ogra_> refreshing it now gets me icons again
<dobey> you could probably do disk encryption then, but might end up impossible to type in the passphrase in the boot loader
<dobey> ogra_: for the store maybe, but not for the local apps scope it wouldn't be a network issue
<popey> ogra_: damn well shouldn't be
<popey> seeing what apps I have locally shouldn't depend on anything online
<dobey> local apps scope only hits the network when you open app previews
<popey> IMHO
<popey> now I refresh it works again
<ogra_> dobey, doesnt it query the store on refresh ?
<ogra_> k
<dobey> ogra_: no, why would it? the apps are installed
<_5a54a_> ok, doesn't sound to be easily to change OS to ubuntu-gnome. But if ubuntu-gnome is installed there is no need to update the ubuntu tablet edition anymore?
<dobey> if it comes up blank then either it crashed, the query wasn't run, or something caused enough disk i/o that it couldn't read the .desktop files
<_5a54a_> so, breaking it doesn't matter to me
<_5a54a_> ..it seems..
<dobey> ogra_, popey: hmm, worked just fine here, on both mako and hammerhead after today's update
<ogra_> how would you run ubuntu-gnome ? there is no xserver for that HW available
<_5a54a_> so, actually you can't run ubuntu-gnome on the tablet at all (as no xserver is available)? Then there is no point trying to.
<ogra_> (you could run Mir and Xmir but i suspect thats horribly slow for a full DE )
<dobey> _5a54a_: sure you can run it. but like i said, you have to build a whole new custom image built to run a regular ubuntu system, to do that
<dobey> ogra_: you could presumably install a regular ubuntu arm build in the same way that one installs a regular ubuntu arm OS on a nexus tablet
<dobey> it's really not worth the trouble to do so though
<ogra_> dobey, and use xorg-fbdev ?
<_5a54a_> it is probably me, but after 1 day or 2 of playing with the tablet, I just do not like the scope very much.
<dobey> ogra_: i guess
<ogra_> _5a54a_, time to write your own then .... one that you like to have as homescreen :)
<_5a54a_> yeah...maybe that is the best solution :)
<kurros> how does recovery mode work on the M10 for ubuntu-device-flash? I got the recovery-frieza.img from http://people.canonical.com/~jhm/avila/ but can't figure out how to make ubuntu-device-flash happy. When i choose "reboot to bootloader" in system recovery it sits at a black screen with "=> FASTBOOT mode..." but u-d-f still says waiting for bootloader
<troyready> I was wondering about that too
<kurros> I was trying to change to rc-proposed for something in stable-phone-overlay but have appear to made a $300 brick. doesn't boot past the BQ splash screen anymore
<troyready> kurros: so you need to start the tablet in bootloader (fastboot) mode and reflash it right?
<troyready> I'm curious in how it goes since I've been getting prepped to start hacking on mine and want to make sure I have a solid recovery plan just in case
<kurros> that seems to be the plan i'm not sure how because I can't seem to make u-d-f get past "Expecting the device to be in the bootloader... waiting". on either the System Recovery screen or when I choose "reboot to bootloader" (which says fastboot mode but nothing happens there).
<kurros> i'm not sure if adb is supposed to see the device at that point or not
<dobey> there is no adb in fastboot
<dobey> i'm not sure if the bq devices can be flashed in fastboot even (i don't have one myself though)
<kurros> :(
<moxie> hi all. is there a way to change the keyboard layout for X11/Xmir applications as well?
<dobey> moxie: the keyboard indicator should do that i think
<moxie> ah, i forgot to say that i meant an external bluetooth keyboard
<kurros> guess I need to find out if BQ will help me if I ship it back
<dobey> moxie: a keyboard is a keyboard
<troyready> kurros: have you tried contacting them yet? There's got to be some way to flash it back without having to ship it back
<dobey> keyboard indicator doesn't care if it's bt or usb or whatever
<moxie> hmm, but what do you mean with the indicator applet? in the language settings i was able to define a layout for the external keyboard but it does not seem to apply for x11 applications
<moxie> it works on touch apps like the touch terminal of course
<moxie> i am on a bq tablet
<dobey> moxie: i mean, is there not a keyboard indicator in the top panel when you pull down?
<moxie> on regular ubuntu i guess so, but i cannot see it here
<dobey> i don't have one, but i thought it was supposed to get an indicator too. maybe i'm wrong
<moxie> i tried to use localectl but it does not work due to the read only fs
<dobey> kurros, troyready: btw, you don't need to reflash to switch channels. you can do it directly on the device with "sudo system-image-cli -vvvv --switch $channel"
<kissiel> Good evening!
<moxie> does one know if there is a way to access the FF downloads folder from outside the application ?
<moxie> it does not seem to make use of the regular download folder
<kurros> troyready: i've opened a ticket. fingers crossed
<kurros> dobey: i had tried that but got a python error. don't have the scrollback anymore. does that require a writable fs?
<dobey> kurros: no
<dobey> kurros: just requires network access
<kurros> okay. will try again if I can get back to a bootable tablet :)
<dobey> moxie: where did it download to?
<kissiel> dobey: I guess that's what moxie is asking ;-)
<dobey> moxie: legacy apps like firefox are run inside a container, and /home/phablet is not bind-mounted for security, afaik. so it's probably downloading files to some place inside the container and you will have to look inside it to find them
<kissiel> what FS i should format my SD card to work with U-T?
<ogra_> just format it in teh device
<ogra_> with the Sd card management tool ...
<troyready> kurros: cool, let me know what you hear. If there's anything I can help test (my m10 fhd is still completely stock) let me know
<kissiel> ogra_: oh, it makes it a FAT
<kissiel> ogra_: 4GiB limit is .... ugly as f*.*
<kissiel> ogra_: I tried ext4, ntfs, vfat
<ogra_> well, needs to be compatible with media players, cameras, mac and windows etc etc
<kissiel> everytime I placed it in m10, it complained
<kissiel> is there any way to make M10 understand exfat?
<kissiel> as this is weapon of choice for most media today?
<chch> maybe by paying the fee to microsoft
<ogra_> not out of the box ... that would require hackery in the readonly bits of the system and likely break after an OTA
<kissiel> ogra_: thanks man, and that makes me cringe a bit ...
<dobey> do you have a 1TB sd card or something?
<kissiel> 64G
<kissiel> wanted to push some FHD content for a long flight
<kissiel> I think I'll recode that to fit 4G limit
<kissiel> but that's subperfect
<dobey> vfat should surely work
<dobey> the 32GB sd in my mp3 player is vfat anyway
<dobey> oh, i guess you mean file size limit, not the partition size
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> for full hd movies thats kind of tight
<kurros> does the touch media player support split files?
<dobey> kurros: you could format it ext4 perhaps, but you have to mount it manually on the tablet
<ogra_> and need to deal with permission issues etc etc
<JanC> ogra_: why would the sd card in a phone/tablet necessarily have to be compatible with cameras, macs and windows?
<dobey> permission issues?
<ogra_> yeah ... you need to mount with uid option and such
<ogra_> JanC: to share files ?
<dobey> well, as long as all the files on the card are readable by everyone shouldn't be a problem
<ogra_> supporting non vfat systems has a lot more complexity
<kissiel> I don't care about mounting it on macs/win systems
<ogra_> dobey: thats more about writing indeed :)
<dobey> not really
<kissiel> just want my content :(
<JanC> ogra_: all my USB sticks & several SD cards are ext4 formatted, so bye bye compatibilty ;)
<dobey> kissiel: format it ext4 and mount it manually on the phone
<ogra_> and sharing it with other machines (where you woint even have the phablet uid)
<ogra_> it is surely fine as a personal hack
<ogra_> but for having something like ext4 supported by default there needs to go some work into the system
<dobey> ogra_: well, there's really no good reason we shouldn't handle ext4-formatted sd cards as at least read-only things
<ogra_> JanC: talking about your moms windows computer indeed ;)
<dobey> and mount them automatically that way
<kissiel> dobey: thx man, definitely will try it out, but I wanted to give this device to my SO so she can enjoy it; manually mounting FS
<kissiel> kinda sucks
<dobey> will make it easier for some people
<ogra_> dobey: we dont support readonly, you woul dbreak things like the camera app ;)
<JanC> my mom has a dumbphone that doesn't even have an sd card reader  ;)
<ogra_> so thats the first thing you'd need to fix
<kissiel> btw. gentlemen, why not exfat/
<dobey> ogra_: why does camera app have to write stuff to the sd card?
<kissiel> it's built for that kind of media
<dobey> kissiel: ask MS why not exfat
<troyready> kissiel: it's not freely licensed iirc
<JanC> is exfat usable without patent-licenses nowadays?
<ogra_> dobey: it doesnt have to, but it currently can
<kissiel> ah, shit
<kissiel> sorry for being ignorant
<ogra_> dobey: if you enable that feature on a readonly target i doubt the app will be happy :)
<kissiel> so what does android default to? (never had android device)
<dobey> ogra_: has anyone even tested what happens when the sd card is mounted read-only? that clearly sounds like something that needs to be tested during qa
<dobey> ogra_: ie, what happens when you flip the switch on the sd card to RO and then plug it in? :)
<ogra_> dobey: no, nobody has tested it, thats my point
<ogra_> i'm sure you will find a lot of interesting corner cases
<ogra_> the camera is an obvious one
<ogra_> in any case, there needs to be work done before we can support ext4 or readonly SDs
<ogra_> (it should definitely happen ... but will take time and someone to do it)
<kissiel> ogra_: are you suggesting that SD card is the only HW that can be r/o?
<dobey> no
<dobey> kissiel: he's saying that SD card is not currently handled as being RO
<ogra_> no, i'm saying that ro mode will cause issues that nobody has thought of yet
<ogra_> +and that will first need fixing before you could make such a thing a default option
<kissiel> mkay, so what about just supporting 'normal' ext4 volumes?
<kissiel> ah
<dobey> because permissions problems
<ogra_> *potential* permission probs :)
<ogra_> back then we simply picked the most compatible option ... which was vfat for everything you can share with another machine
<ogra_> it had been on our roadmap to extend that ...
<ogra_> not sure what todays phone team plans for this though
<kissiel> hmmm, from a user's point of view, that's a PITA (the 4GiB limit), from power-user's POV, that's circumventable
 * ogra_ loves how scribus is installing in a libertine container in teh background while i IRC on the M10 ....
<ogra_> kissiel: how about from your gandmas POV ?
<kissiel> all grandmas dead
<ogra_> she surely rather wants the SD to work between her camera and the tablet :)
<dobey> ogra_: if the sd is exfat, it won't work :)
<ogra_> so that she can look at th epics she took on teh bigger screen
<ogra_> dobey: heh
<kissiel> that's a good point, still, for me it's more about high-cap storage more than x-platformness
<roadmr> kissiel: hey :)
<ogra_> kissiel: but you are able to hack it :)
<kissiel> roadmr: hey, I asked, as ogra_ was taking about vfat that you suggested I should try
<roadmr> i see
<JanC> IIRC Microsoft only sues device makers for exfat, so Ubuntu/Canonical would be fine, but I'm not sure if bq/Meizu would be
<ogra_> they wouldnt ... it is also usually the device makers that are the ones that pay
<kissiel> JanC: "only sues" seems so friendly ;)
<JanC> well, it's possible they already pay
<ogra_> indeed
<JanC> pay without actually using it...
<dobey> does android support exfat?
<kissiel> ugh... I really wish that EU would stick more to low-level things like FSs than to android in general
<JanC> it certainly can support it
<dobey> well, so can my NES if i write a driver for it; but that wasn't the question
<ogra_> ubuntu can certainly support it too
<JanC> some Android devices certainly support it
<ogra_> because the vendor paid
<JanC> Ubuntu desktop/server have exfat support in universe  :)
<kissiel> yeah, like exfat-{fuse,utils} is the one of the first pkgs I install
<dobey> yeah, userland junk though
<JanC> so is ntfs-3g
<JanC> and it's not "junk"
<dobey> do any android devices support exfat in kernel space?
<JanC> it's based on the same codebase as the in-kernel drivers from the same vendor
<dobey> my honda is based on the same physical principles that a ferrari is, but that doesn't make my honda a ferrari either :)
<lam_> how can i update the nexus 10 to the newset version of ubuntu touch
<dobey> lam_: ubports.com
<lam_> dobey: i
<lam_> dobey: i've tried that it causes boot issues
<dobey> lam_: what channel?
<dobey> lam_: rc-proposed is the latest stuff
<JanC> dobey: http://www.tuxera.com/products/tuxera-exfat-embedded/
<lam_> from ubports
<lam_> ?
<dobey> lam_: yes
<lam_> i'll look into it
<lam_> i was going from official servers
<kissiel> JanC: thay wanted my money for ntfs support on a osx machine... I wonder how much of the earned money they pay back to ms
<dobey> JanC: was that page supposed to tell me something useful?
<JanC> they sell exfat to Android device makers
<JanC> in-kernel exfat
<dobey> but no mention of what makers and what devices have it
<lam_> dobey: now after flashing from ubports i havean eprom with red cross in bacground
<lam_> dobey: now after flashing from ubports i havean eprom with red cross in background
<dobey> i don't know what that means or how you flashed
<lam_> using ubuntu-device-flash
<lam_> its says "this phone needs restoring from a pc"
<dobey> ubuntu-device-flash has many options
<dobey> and you can flash from fastboot or via developer mode or from recovery
<lam_> sudo ubuntu-device-flash --server=http://system-image.ubports.com touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/stable --device=manta --bootstrap
<dobey> you don't need to run ubuntu-device-flash with sudo
<dobey> unless perhaps you manually ran adb with sudo too or something weird like that
<dobey> and you shouldn't need to pass --device either
<dobey> i'd say reboot to the bootloader, and try again without the sudo and without the --device options
<lam_> trying now
<lam_> no luck spits out the same error "device needs to be restored from pc"
<kurros> hahahaha
<kurros> ubuntu-device-flash is working on the m10 now. it got past the "Expecting the device to be in the bootloader... waiting" when I used sudo
<kurros> (i've never ran adb with sudo)
<troyready> interesting -- udev issue maybe?
<kurros> could be
<troyready> Let me know where you end up -- I really want to be able to play around on mine with assurance that I can get back to stock
<lam_> hmm seems to push files to the device while in recovery but on boot it refuses to flash them
<kurros> troyready: yay she boots. back to stock. used the stable channel image for now. i've had enough stress for today.
<troyready> Nice :)
<lam_> dobey: does the Ubports install require you to be on a spesific version of android before flashing
<dobey> lam_: what os was on the device when you tried to flash?
<lam_> dobey: ubuntu touch devel v2 from ubuntu.com
<akunz05> how do i put ubuntu touch on my nook color
<dobey> akunz05: port it
<akunz05> i need steps on how to do so
<dobey> lam_: ok. go download the original 4.4.2 or 4.4.4 android images from google, flash it on using the included tool, let the device boot to the android welcome screen, reboot to the bootloader, and try to flash ubuntu again
<dobey> akunz05: see the topic
<akunz05> thank you
<lam_> dobey: ok
<lam_> dobey: no luck
<kurros> now that i have bootstrapped with the proper recovery image for my BQ M10 do I need to use --recovery-image in the future every time or is it there for good now?
<troyready> kurros: I was just reading about the adb enabled recovery images -- where did you get it for the m10?
<dobey> lam_: you are not very forthcoming with information are you?
<dobey> and i can't believe you did all of that in only 3 minutes
<dobey> kurros: afaik you need to use it every time
<kurros> troyready: i found it by poking around jhm's site with the E4.5/E5 images: http://people.canonical.com/~jhm/avila/
<dobey> kurros: but really, you don't need to reflash the device to switch channels; you can do it on device just fine
<kurros> dobey: yeah, i just did the system-image-cli --switch now, its doing its thing :)
<lam_> dobey: error as before " you need to connect to a pc to restore"
<dobey> lam_: ok, well either you are doing something wrong or something is wrong with your hardware (device, cable, usb port), but i can't help you any more.
<troyready> kurros: cool, thanks
<troyready> kurros: so your m10 is the non-fhd one right? I'm trying to figure out how different the fhd (codename 'cooler' if I've seen right) model is
<troyready> Specifically if I can use the same recovery
<kurros> hmm, no I have the FHD model
<kurros> ive read the processor is clocked to a different speed by i don't know if its actually different
<troyready> oh, ok sweet -- that's reassuring. Glad you verified the frieza recovery worked :)
<troyready> It's interesting that they're separate product codes and images, but the About page on the device just lists it as frieza
<derZar> hi, somebody there?
<pmcgowan> lots of people may be here
<ogra_> only 247
<pmcgowan> ogra_, are you dyslexic? I see 274
<ogra_> I so am!!
<derZar> :o
<derZar> so many people!
<derZar> I've got a bq e5 few days ago
<derZar> to improve my app developement skills and linux by itself
<derZar> but the terminal and I...
<derZar> we aren't friends atm
<derZar> i want to install some extension packages to run some apps... and my question is how?
<pmcgowan> derZar, the best way is to add a chroot, dobey  explained how to somewhere
<ogra_> Use a chroot in /home/phablet
<pmcgowan> ltr
<ogra_> yeah, somewhere on askubuntu
<derZar> ltr?
<ogra_> http://askubuntu.com/a/623311
<derZar> ye thats it
<derZar> thx :)
#ubuntu-touch 2016-04-22
<Bqm10man> Using the bq m10 right now. Has anybody else got theirs yet?
<Bqm10man> \?
 * ahoneybun wants this badly https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/unity8/rotate-dash/+merge/292377/+index?ss=1
<ahoneybun> mzanetti, ^
<mzanetti> ahoneybun, me too :)
<matv1> hi still loving my M10 a lot after a week. Just one thing. After sidestage use, I keep getting the three finger hint. Which obviously should only run once
<matv1> is there some kind of config file fix for this
<matv1> its gets annoying :(
<Smurphy> Is the M10 fast enough for general usage ??? I already got a BQ4.5 - but wonder if I get an M10 too ;}
<matv1> Smurphy depends what you call fast and what you call general usage I guess :). If you plan to use it as a desktop, i would say. no. Too slow and too limited
<matv1> as a tablet its not the fastest, but very usable
<matv1> I also have the BQ4.5 but its unfortunately unasable now coz of a smashed screen. I have to say that the M10 performs smoother then the BQ4.5 when it was released
<matv1> Soo is there anyone that can even confirm that Sidestage first-use hint that doesnt go away on the M10?
<matv1> I assumed it was common but I cannot seem to find a Unity8 bug for it yet
<Smurphy> matv1: Thx for the hints.
<matv1> Smurphy np
<matv1> I take it that all first run hints are indeed part of Unity8?
<matv1> right. filed a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1573524
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1573524 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "side stage first-use hint about 3-finger swipe does not stop (Frieza)" [Undecided,New]
 * ogra_ confirms, thats an annoying one ... 
<matv1> ogra_ yes thanks. On another note: my kid is very disappointed that your webapp port of the tower rush game doesnt run on the M10.
<matv1> unfortunately he doesnt have a launchpad account :)
<ogra_> matv1, yeah, i was already talking to oSoMoN about that ...
<ogra_> something doesnt work with the browser/webapp container on that site
<ogra_> tapping the play button isnt recognized
<oSoMoN> ogra_, have you had a chance to do some debugging of whatâs happening there?
<ogra_> i promis i'll fix it if i found whats wrong :) (it is just that time is a bit limited on my side atm .. sanppy curse)
<ogra_> oSoMoN, nothing helpful in the logs iirc
<matv1> ah cool :) well I did notice some other app in the store that kinda did the same thing for another game from that site does work. if its any help.
<matv1> except that didnt force a full screen
<matv1> so that might be the difference. just a thought
<ogra_> oSoMoN, http://paste.ubuntu.com/15979690/
<ogra_> TouchEvent.initTouchEvent' is deprecated
<ogra_> ?
<ogra_> could it be that ?
<oSoMoN> ogra_, it shouldnât, because itâs only a deprecation warning, the feature is still there
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> talks about sept.
<ogra_> it works fine on all my phones ... which is the weird bit
<matv1> ogra_ oSoMoN might it have something to do with oriantation. I also notice that on Frieza, the webapp doesnt notice a portrait orientation
<ogra_> i dont do anything to prevent rotation ...
<ogra_> and here it rotates
<ogra_> doesnt seem to make a difference if it is in portrait
<matv1> yes but on the phones, the app does notice the wrong orientation and it tells you to rotate
<ogra_> the day-d app ?
<matv1> yes
<ogra_> hmm
<R0MN4G> Hi
<matv1> the is some funky stuff going on with orientation anyway. My qml app does have a line to prevent orientation but after OTA 10.1, Unity isnt picking up on that any more.
<matv1> ogra_ ofcourse that may be totally unrelated
<R0MN4G> Does my tablet "Lenovo A10-70" support Ubuntu Touch?
<R0MN4G> anyone?
<davmor2> R0MN4G: you might be able to port it but it won't out of the box
<R0MN4G> okey, thanks for the answer :P
<ogra_> matv1, oSoMoN ... got it ... it needs a mobile UA, then it works
<oSoMoN> dâoh, stupid websites which assume mobile == touch
<ogra_> bah ... but then it doesnt draw the background ...
<ogra_> i see all items, just not the wallpaper
<R0MN4G> Sorry, I forgott to ask if my Huawei P8 Lite supports Ubuntu?
<matv1> R0MN4G same answer as before :)
<R0MN4G> :-/
<R0MN4G> Is it possible reinstall Android after installing Ubuntu?
<R0MN4G> If it would not work
<matv1> R0MN4G yes if you take the right backup precautions
<R0MN4G> oki
<cariveri> Hi.
<cariveri> my aquaris e5 crashed in a delicate way: 107 messages sent the clock reads and I could not turn the phone of with the power off button. the phone is a few days in my hands.
<cariveri> I had to wait until the battry was as low as powering off by itself.
<Smurphy> Reset it. I don't know what you did with it - by my BQ4.5 runs for quite a while without a crash now.
<Smurphy> cariveri: http://askubuntu.com/questions/602834/how-to-reset-bq-ubuntu-phone-when-gui-is-inaccessible
<mcphail> cariveri: hold the power button for 10 seconds longer than it takes for your finger to start aching
<cariveri> mcphail: is there multiple length actions? I thought there is just block screen and power off, when pressed long.
<mcphail> Holding it longer than you'd expect does a hard piwer off
<cariveri> I see. perhaps I did not do it long enough. though Im tempted to send the device back for a replacement.
<ogra_> not really, it does a reboot :)
<mcphail> ogra_: aah. true
<leousa> Hi all
<leousa> Anyone here experiencing high battery consumption while idle on the BQ M10 tablet?
<Smurphy> nope.
<Smurphy> I don't have the tablet though. BQ4.5
<leousa> Nah it doesn't happen on the BQ 4.5
<leousa> only in the tablet
<leousa> there is a kworker process constantly taking 17% of CPU
<leousa> here is the launchpad link in case anyone interested https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1573469
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1573469 in Canonical System Image "BQ M10 tablet kworker process constantly at 17% CPU" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<leousa> yeah i reported that oen
<matv1> leousa hmm i can't confirm that one. Top is telling me kworker is using between 1 and 2 % cpu
<matv1> but I have to say that I just recently rebooted. Maybe there is an increase in time
<matv1> i will keep an eye on that
<leousa> interesting, i rebooted also and saw kworker jumping to 17% inmediately after reboot
<matv1> thats weird indeed
<leousa> it seems some other people also see battery drain of 50% overnight
<ogra_> both are virgin devices ? no hackery or making anything writable you shouldnt ?
<ogra_> my battery lÃ¶asts easily 18h here
<leousa> yeah virgin tablet here, only installed few apps from the store
<matv1> yeah same here
<leousa> 18h is fine, but 40-50% drain while doing nothing on a 7h period seems high to me
<matv1> and mine is no tinkering straight up latest stable channel
<ogra_> i did the OTA upgrade and did re-set the device when i got it though
<ogra_> (i.e. i went through the setup wizard of the new OTA)
<leousa> im on OTA 10.1 but did not reset after update
<ogra_> the original image doesnt offer you to set a user name (for the lock screen)
 * ogra_ didnt like to be "Ubuntu"
<matv1> ogra_ thats an interesting idea. I didnt do that though. ie I am still Ubuntu :)
<leousa> just checked again, kworker/1:1 at 16.2% :/
<leousa> only terminal open
<ogra_> never above 1.7/1.8 here
<popey> pmcgowan: ^  ð
<leousa> fresh reboot kworker/0:1 at 16.4 already
<popey> pertinent to our email conversation
<leousa> might try to reset device, unless u folks think that i can provide more info about this issue in the launchpad bug i reported
<pmcgowan> popey, yeah I was just perusing the bug report and checking myself, I do not see kworker running
<pmcgowan> popey, while thats concerning, I think the real issue is we must not be suspending the device properly
<leousa> sorry im not an expert, but kworker also jumps inmediately after reboot, without suspending the device
<pmcgowan> leousa, and it stays high or does it just spike?
<leousa> it just stays high, fluctuates between 15.9 and 16.2 % all the time
<pmcgowan> leousa, and have you run any applications yet?
<leousa> not since last reboot
<leousa> only terminal to run top
<pmcgowan> leousa, ok and which scope is open, today?
<leousa> pmcgowan right now im at the Apps scope
<leousa> but i have today and nearby also
<pmcgowan> ok I am unable to reproduce it so far
<leousa> that is weird
<pmcgowan> leousa, do you have bt and wifi on? I have both active
<leousa> i have wifi active, not bt
<leousa> pmcgowan, turning them all on or off doesnt change anything for me
<pmcgowan> leousa, there are some good techniques at http://askubuntu.com/questions/33640/kworker-what-is-it-and-why-is-it-hogging-so-much-cpu for using perf to pinpoint the issue
<leousa> pmcgowan, alright thanks, ill have a look
<matv1> leousa just a thought: after the latest reboot, have you activated desktop mode ?
<leousa> no I did not
<PaulFraOSAA> Hi
<leousa> reboot, launch terminal, kworker 16% already
<PaulFraOSAA> Just got my new tablet, It's great
<matv1> leousa ok nm then
<PaulFraOSAA> Has anybody found a good (read installable) Qt/QML IRC client? Whenever I use any gnome stuff, the keyboard is wrong
<ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, i use kiwiirc and just exclude it from suspending
<ogra_> (from the store)
<PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Thanks, I'll check that out
<ogra_> gsettings set com.canonical.qtmir lifecycle-exempt-appids [com.ubuntu.music,com.ubuntu.developer.ogra.kiwi-irc]
<ogra_> that would exclude it from app lifecycle mgmt
<PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Seems I'll check it out some other time, It says download failed :(
<ogra_> oh ?
<ogra_> definitely works here ... i just did a fresh install of the app
<leousa> launching a trace echo 1  > /proc/sysrq-trigger and then running dmesg gives me lots of kworker messages related  to [ALS/PS]
<ogra_> is your U1 account set up properly ?
<PaulFraOSAA> Yes I already downloaded a bunch of stuff. Nothing today though
<ogra_> weird
<leousa> pmcgowan, [ALS/PS] als_get_data 1962 : als_get_data *value =225, *status =2
<ogra_> you didnt make the system writable or some such (and ran out of space or so)
<ogra_> ?
<PaulFraOSAA> Hmm I just tried to install the XKCD scope, that downloaded and failed installing as well.
<leousa> pmcgowan, also [power/gpufreq] mt_gpufreq_volt_enable_estate ==0! return
<ogra_> looks like some systemic issue
<ogra_> is that an unhacked system ?
<leousa> yeah, vanilla system
<leousa> just upgraded to 10.1
<pmcgowan> leousa, did you get the update
<ogra_> leousa, heh, i meant PaulFraOSAA
<pmcgowan> ah
<leousa> oh sorry
<ogra_> nah, sorry that i didnt highlight properly :)
<PaulFraOSAA> Yes, I haven't even had it connected to my pc yet
<ogra_> <- lazy bastard
<PaulFraOSAA> > . <
<ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, very weird ... i could imagine some issues if you made itr writable or some such ... but if it is untouched it should just work
<PaulFraOSAA> Well if it installs in system i have about 500 M free
<leousa> pmcgowan, yes upon first launch I updated to 10.1 when i got the device
<pmcgowan> leousa, aha!
<pmcgowan> leousa, its the automatic brightness control
<ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, 500M ? that should be rather 9G
<leousa> ohh really?
<ogra_> in the writable space
<pmcgowan> leousa, go to brightness and turn off auto
<leousa> pmcgowan, actually i just enabled that last night
<pmcgowan> bingo, bug
<PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Thats what I have in the userdata part
<ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, what do you mean by "installs in system" ? thats readonly and you really shouldnt make it writable
<leousa> pmcwowan, holy cow you are right
<ogra_> (that breaks a lot of stuff)
<leousa> that's it
<PaulFraOSAA> Well I just did a df -h so there is that
<ogra_> (or *can* break, rather)
<PaulFraOSAA> If it just installs in the userdata part I have about 9GB
<leousa> pmcgowan kworker is back to normal when i deactivate automatic brightness control
<pmcgowan> indeed
<popey> Nice find!
<pmcgowan> leousa, thanks I will have someone dig into it
<leousa> yeah lol
<ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, if you didnt do any "remount,rw" of anything ...
<leousa> pmcgowan my pleaser
<leousa> pleasure
<leousa> pmcgowan thx for your amazing job folks
<PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Nope, I tried to run apt-get, bug got stopped. I shouldn't have done anything too bad.
<cariveri> Smurphy: did reset it. thanks. hope thatll work.
<ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, if you want to run apt stuff, create a fresh container in /home/phablet ... and use libertine-container-manager to install apps
<ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15980818/ is a script i use for X11 apps
<PaulFraOSAA> Sorry, Fat fingers and such
<leousa> alright, im out thanks folks
<ogra_> <ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, if you want to run apt stuff, create a fresh container in /home/phablet ... and use libertine-container-manager to install apps
<ogra_> <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15980818/ is a script i use for X11 apps
<PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Now that sounds interesting, where can I read more about that?
<ogra_> i dont think there is a lot documentation yet ... i squeezed the info out of ChrisTownsend's brain :)
<PaulFraOSAA> btw, I also have a couple of bugs I'd like to report (like the keyboard in gnome apps stuff) I couldn't find anything other than "Maybe you should report the bug upstream"
<ogra_> the essential bit is to move .local/share/libertine/ContainersConfig.json out of the way ... since that links to a readonly space
<ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, thats a well known one ... keyborad support for X11 apps is being worked on
<PaulFraOSAA> Oh, well then I don't need to know where to submit bugs or search for if they are known then ;P
<ogra_> for now they work with external keyboards only ...
<ogra_> you would have filed it against libertine or putine i guess
<ogra_> on launchpad
<rbasak> Has anyone else noticed the phone and messaging apps hanging since the last OTA? Usually after I haven't touched them in a while (and the screen has been off).
<rbasak> I keep having to kill (swipe up) and restart.
 * ogra_ never keeps them on screen :)
<rbasak> Even if not on the screen - just in the background.
<rbasak> I switch back to them and the screen stays frozen (rather than waking up on app restart as used to be the case)
<rbasak> I think the contacts app is affected too.
<rbasak> Maybe an issue with the auto app restart after kill thing?
<rbasak> I wonder if I can simulate an OOM kill to reproduce.
<ogra_> yes, i mean i swipe the app away when i'm done with a call ;)
<ogra_> i think the dialer doesnt get OOMed ...
<pmcgowan> timp, is that the uitk issue? ^^
<ogra_> (so it will instead hit a system OOM then ... which might confuse things)
<ogra_> pmcgowan, qtmir if at all
<timp> pmcgowan: I don't know about that bug. I did fix a bug where the app seemed to freeze, which was caused by a Dialog that did not close properly and blocked all the app input https://code.launchpad.net/~tpeeters/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/freeze/+merge/291814
<timp> but if it hangs even in background I think it is not related to this
<ogra_> yeah, i thinnk it is rather a confusion with the OOM scoring system
<timp> I meant this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1568016 but it is different
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1568016 in ubuntu-ui-toolkit (Ubuntu RTM) "Freezes in uitk" [Critical,Fix committed]
<PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: I went windows on it and now I'm on kiwi
<PaulFraOSAA> Not perfect but at least I don't have to do the capcta each time
<ogra_> you mean you rebooted ?
<PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Yep ;)
<ogra_> heh
<PaulFraOSAA> My thought for installing programs btw was to mount my SD-card on /usr/local since that is completely empty and is on the path. Now I just need to figure out how to launch them. The terminal program is't terribly helpfull for that it seems
<PaulFraOSAA> I don't have an SD card right now, so I can't say if that is't what it does :)
<PaulFraOSAA> By the way, Almost all "developer machine" pictures I have seen of the M10 features it running creator, Is that even possible? Or is it for an "opened" machine?
<ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, you'll have to fiddle a lot ... by default the SD is only handled when vfat
<ogra_> (so you need to manually mount it after reboot etc etc ...)
<ogra_> (make it user owned to not hit potential permission issues)
<Elleo> PaulFraOSAA: bzoltan has been working on a QtCreator click package, which runs pretty nicely now but doesn't yet support building/running apps, so isn't quite ready for real use yet: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg19919.html
 * ogra_ guiesses you could run it in a local libertine container too though ... might need some fiddling 
<PaulFraOSAA> Elleo: Ok, One thing that could possibly be done was to port QML Creator from Android, That would be awesome on the touch.
<PaulFraOSAA> It's really been a good way for me into QML, (I'm mostry a C++ guy)
<Elleo> PaulFraOSAA: have you played with Terrarium at all? that lets you write QML and view it live as you edit which is quite fun: https://uappexplorer.com/app/com.ubuntu.developer.penk.playgrounds
<PaulFraOSAA> Elleo: That sounds pretty much like QML Creator, I'll check it out
<PaulFraOSAA> It looks really cool. But it also made me sad because it reminded me that the dead keys still don't work with an external keyboard along with AltGr keys
<melvster> Looking at the ubuntu aquarium m10 tablet is says: OS Ubuntu 15.04
<melvster> does anyone know if it upgrades easily to 16.04?
<melvster> Im thinking about ordering one, but not sure whether to do it now, or wait for the OS to be bumped, or how long that might take ...
<melvster> any ideas?
<lotuspsychje> melvster: you can order safely, ubuntu-touch works otherwise
<lotuspsychje> melvster: check topic: ota 10.1
<lotuspsychje> thats latest
<melvster> lotuspsycheje: thanks!  so looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes/OTA-10.1  I am guessing that the tablet will auto upgrade "over the air" to 16.04?
<lotuspsychje> melvster: the ota's count, dont focus on the release too much :p
<lotuspsychje> melvster: in system settings ota version will also show
<melvster> lotuspsychje: ok thanks, sorry wasnt 100% sure the relationship to OTA and release cycle.  Maybe I'll try this out on my nexus 4 first, then order the tablet.  Im VERY tempted (even tho im unsure how well 2GB will be)
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu 15.04(ota 10.1) on my phone
<lotuspsychje> melvster: im sure the m10 is a bomb :p
<melvster> oh interesting
<melvster> will 15.04 / OTA cyle / 16.04 converge -- sorry if that's a noob question!
<mcphail> melvster: eventually...
<mcphail> melvster: just now the phone has 15.04 with various backports in a special PPA
<melvster> ah ok
<mcphail> melvster: I don't know if the 16.04 branch is even booting yet!
<melvster> mcphail: thanks, that's great info.  So there's an advantage to waiting, but maybe I
<melvster> 'll order one anyway
<mcphail> melvster: I'm not sure there is an advantage to waiting. Development is very active on the 15.04 + PPA branch
<mcphail> melvster: I haven't heard how good (or bad) the tablet is, yet. So be aware you will be an "early adopter" ;)
<melvster> mchphail: thanks, yes im used to living on the bleeding edge :P  im pretty excited about where all this is at, I think I'll soon make the jump to becoming a developer on closely related projects.
<mcphail> melvster: Good. It is an easy platform to develop for. And they need as many hands helping out as possible
<melvster> mchpail: it's a great positive community too, that's important.  I'd like to bring closer together the best of the web and the best of ubuntu, so I think there's good overlap.
<melvster> s/mchpail/mchphail
<mcphail> ha!
<mcphail> melvster: "tab" autocompletion for nicks works wonders
<melvster> oh nice tip, thx!
<mcphail> ;)
<dobey> mariogrip: hey. how is the battery fix coming? ready to put in rc-proposed for hammerhead? :)
<dobey> melvster: the phone images don't follow the normal ubuntu release schedule. that it's currently built on 15.04 base doesn't have much meaning, as the kernel is from the android tree, not the ubuntu archive, and the phone images still receive necessary security updates and get the new phone features
<PaulFraOSAA> I just got the tablet the day before yesterday, my first impressions are a mixed bag: The tablet is a bit slow. Youtube is not really usable, but great for browsing and stuff like that. The convergence is not really happening since the X11 programs don't play too well with external keyboards and actually developing _on_ the tablet seems somewhat ou
<PaulFraOSAA> t of the question for now.
<troyready> What's the issue with external keyboards and X11 apps?
<PaulFraOSAA> That being said, the tablet shows a lot of promise. I'm nowhere near sorry I bought it, Just stick to the QML stuff and you'll be fine. And there is a lot of space to develop applications there. Qt is a really great framework and I'm super psyced that ubuntu seems to be chosing it over gtk
<ogra_> Whtas the issue with youtube ?
<troyready> ogra_: it's too stuttery in playback to be enjoyable
<dobey> troyready: probably AltGr for various layouts
<PaulFraOSAA> troyready: I use a danish QWERTY keyboard but have set it up to be a danish dvorak, when I'm in an X11 app (at least libre office or firefox) it's suddenly qwerty again...
<ogra_> huh?
<ogra_> runs totally smooth here
<ogra_> how do you use it?
<PaulFraOSAA> The console application is in mer, so I can't change the X11 keyboard using the terminal either and I can't install programs because the filesystem is read only (that will have to change soon)
<troyready> ogra_: interesting; I tried a couple videos yesterday in the default browser and it was not great. I'll try rebooting it and see if its the same
<ogra_> X paps are more of a preview, don't expect much yet
<ogra_> *apps
<dobey> PaulFraOSAA: you can't install programs in /. you can install apps in the libertine container though
<ogra_> silly autocomplete
<PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Both using the browser and the scene for youtube makes it run horribly slow. How did you use it?
<ogra_> in the browser app
<PaulFraOSAA> On the plus side, I finally got an app for ello ;)
<dobey> scene? scope? the scope just opens the browser afaik
<PaulFraOSAA> dobey: yes, yes it does
<ogra_> apaudio is a little off, but I have no stuttering
<SylvieLorxu> Hey everyone, I just got my Bq tablet, but I'm unable to install any apps as I cannot log into Ubuntu One. It keeps saying "Network error - please retry." but Telegram and the browser work fine
<PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Just tried firefox to compare. It's just as laggy
<troyready> SylvieLorxu: interesting. Can't offer any suggestions for help, sorry, but can say that it did work for me
<SylvieLorxu> I'm also wondering, is there any reason Firefox, GIMP and Xchat-GNOME are on the device seeing how they won't open the on-screen keyboard and thus are completely useless?
<SylvieLorxu> I guess perhaps if you have a bluetooth keyboard, but still, it feels... bad to have apps act like this in the default configuration
<PaulFraOSAA> SylvieLorxu: Well they are trying to sell the "convergence" idea, so I don't think It's too bad to have it in the default install. Rather, they should have a seperate "folder/launcher" for the x stuff
<dobey> SylvieLorxu: are you using turkish language for the device?
<SylvieLorxu> dobey: Nope, British English
<dobey> hmm
<dobey> SylvieLorxu: i suspect a typo in your password perhaps then, if not in your e-mail address
<SylvieLorxu> dobey: Already retyped it :(
<PaulFraOSAA> SylvieLorxu: Didn't you enter that stuff during first boot?
<SylvieLorxu> But I'll do so again I guess
<dobey> SylvieLorxu: or perhaps an issue with the account itself, can you log in at https://login.ubuntu.com/+applications ?
<SylvieLorxu> PaulFraOSAA: It never asked me during first boot, probably because I pressed skip after connecting to a wifi network because it didn't do anything after that
<SylvieLorxu> dobey: Actually, you're right
<SylvieLorxu> I typed my email wrong
<SylvieLorxu> What a stupid error message
<dobey> SylvieLorxu: yes, the error message is due to a bug in qt; it's fixed in the next update
<SylvieLorxu> Yay \o/
 * PaulFraOSAA congratulates SylvieLorxu with his new tablet that can now get even more interesting stuff on it
<PaulFraOSAA> ;)
<SylvieLorxu> s/his/her/
<SylvieLorxu> But thanks :P
<nim> hi
<nim> I just bought an Ubuntu Table
<ogra_> Yay
<PaulFraOSAA> sry
<SylvieLorxu> They sell tables too? ;)
<nim> is there a way to play videos ?
<dobey> SylvieLorxu: x11 apps without a bt kb/mouse is a bit of a preview still; i think in an update or three there will be some better keyboard integration
<nim> yes
<nim> a bq
<dobey> i know it's one of the things being worked on
<SylvieLorxu> I think you mean tablet :P
<nim> jeje
<nim> tablet
<PaulFraOSAA> SylvieLorxu: No, some ppl are just accustomed to smaller tables;)
 * mr_rcollins just unboxed his BQ M10...
<ogra_> min, video playback should just work
<SylvieLorxu> nim: I litterally just got mine, so no clue, but I have a guess it may be part of gallery because that's what Android always did
<nim> me too a bq m10
<ogra_> err nim
<mr_rcollins> First question: Why does that Today scope thingy only do landscape?
<SylvieLorxu> So, removed stupid Facebook bloat (thank God you can uninstall that) and installed Terminal
<SylvieLorxu> It is now officially better than Android
<ogra_> lol
<PaulFraOSAA> mr_rcollins: Mine does portrait also
<SylvieLorxu> For my needs that is
<dobey> must be DHL delivery hour in EU
 * PaulFraOSAA agrees with SylvieLorxu wholeheartedly
<SylvieLorxu> Then again, lack of Dvorak is a HUGE disappointment
<SylvieLorxu> Hahaha it comes with vi
<SylvieLorxu> Oh my God this is heaven
<SylvieLorxu> I need to get myself a bluetooth keyboard
<mr_rcollins> Hmm, mine doesn't want to switch.
<mr_rcollins> I also have no keyboard in touch mode in Firefox, Xchat, Libreoffice...
<PaulFraOSAA> SylvieLorxu: I don't really miss it, if you get an ext keyboard dvorak works a charm
<ogra_> SylvieLorxu: time to start filing bugs then ;)
<SylvieLorxu> Is there a way to make screenshots?
<PaulFraOSAA> (exept if you need AltGr, then you are up sh** creek with no paddle)
<SylvieLorxu> ogra_: I actually already did :P
<ogra_> mr_rcollins: yeahm these apps are more in a preview state still
<dobey> SylvieLorxu: vol up/dn simultaneously
<SylvieLorxu> Niiiice
<SylvieLorxu> Much better than on Android as well
<ogra_> mr_rcollins: also they are desktop apps ... they work fine with external kbd
<mr_rcollins> Too bad.  I am disappointed that I can't officially use apt-get. I need mosh, git, and tmux!
<mr_rcollins> I threw caution to the window, mounted / rw and went to town anyway. :-)
<ogra_> use a chroot or libertine container
<PaulFraOSAA> mr_rcollins: That was my first disappointment as well, It seems it's a "security feature"
<dobey> mr_rcollins: you can do it in the libertine container, or make a chroot
<ogra_> dont make teh system rw
<dobey> remounting / is bad
<ogra_> it will end in tears
<mr_rcollins> I used apt-get, then mounted / ro.
<ogra_> yeah, next OTA will wipe that
<ogra_> but wont free up teh space
<dobey> yeah, bad idea
<mr_rcollins> ogra_, chroot work?
<ogra_> so you eventually run out of room
<ogra_> yeah
<dobey> https://askubuntu.com/questions/620740/recommended-way-to-install-regularcli-deb-packages-on-ubuntu-phone/623311#623311
<ogra_> chroot or create a libertine container
<mr_rcollins> That's a good idea.
<dobey> mr_rcollins: ^^
 * mr_rcollins is reading...
<ogra_> libertine is used to also run graphical apps (i,e, firefox)
<dobey> libertine container is probably a better option on the tablet though
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> you just need to tinker a bit to create one
<dobey> since you get a lot of nice integration already for it
<SylvieLorxu> I wish I could filter the Ubuntu store on only FOSS
<ogra_> teh container config is readonly ... needs to be writable
<dobey> SylvieLorxu: the store doesn't really know anything about licenses
<SylvieLorxu> dobey: Except that it shows it on each app
<dobey> ?
<PaulFraOSAA> BTW what is this with a max SD card of 64GB, Is it a certain type or does it just not see the rest of the card or will it refuse to see it entirely?
<SylvieLorxu> Tap an app and on the right you'll see "License: GNU GPL v3" and so
<SylvieLorxu> Or otherwise "Proprietary"
<SylvieLorxu> So it definitely knows
<mr_rcollins> Would it be recommended to create the chroot on an SD card? Then I can wipe the tablet if need be but keep my chroot.
<ogra_> PaulFraOSAA: it is the sfae value that was tested by bq ...
<ogra_> safe
<ogra_> doesnt mean that bigger ones dont work :)
<dobey> SylvieLorxu: well, it just says whatever the person that uploaded the app entered there
 * ogra_ has a 128GB card in his bq phone ... works fine
<PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Cool, I'll try it out with the tablet then
<ogra_> mr_rcollins: then you need to manually mount the card ... by default only vfat is supported
<mr_rcollins> That works for me. :-)
<ogra_> (ext4 means manual mount etc)
<mr_rcollins> I'd only have to do that if I restart the tablet, right?
<dobey> hmm
<PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: The libertine howto starts off by mounting / rw...
<mr_rcollins> I'm not familiar with Libertine at all.
<mr_rcollins> Setting up Libertine sounds like a bunch of no nos. Adding a new repo to apt-get and installing apps with apt-get.
<PaulFraOSAA> ogra_:  How is that agreeable with "don't remount / rw, it'll only end in tears"?
<dobey> SylvieLorxu: hrmm, i was going to suggest something to filter out licenses of Proprietary, but it doesn't seem to work.
<SylvieLorxu> dobey: Why doesn't it seem to work?
<ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, http://paste.ubuntu.com/15988603/
<ogra_> try that
<ogra_> it creates the container in .cache/libertine-container/$containername
<dobey> SylvieLorxu: probably because it's not indexed for search on the server
<mr_rcollins> So libertine-container-manager is already on the device?
<ogra_> thugh do it via adb or ssh ... i think the terminal blocks some stuff
<ogra_> yeah
<SylvieLorxu> dobey: Oh, that's disappointing :(
<mr_rcollins> PaulFraOSAA, that's what's wrong with the wiki, they're having you install the libertine stuff even though it already is.
<dobey> SylvieLorxu: i'm seeing if we can get that changed, so it will work. might have to wait until monday though
<SylvieLorxu> dobey: Oh, there's no rush
<ogra_> the wiki is outdated and for nexus phones :)
<SylvieLorxu> It's already more usable than the Google Play store ever was
<SylvieLorxu> I'd just like to use it like F-Droid :P
<PaulFraOSAA> mr_rcollins: Yes, I just figured as much
<PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: thanks
<ogra_> the only blocking part is the .local/share/libertine/ContainersConfig.json link into the readonly space ... if you sort that out you can just use libertime-container-manager without making anything writable
<dobey> SylvieLorxu: if i can get the team that owns the server to index it, looks like my idea will work though :)
<mr_rcollins> ogra_, thanks for the help!
<ogra_> (well, and as i said, you might want to use ssh or adb to run it ... the terminal app crealy blocks chroot calls)
<mr_rcollins> I probably can't modify /etc/fstab either?
<SylvieLorxu> dobey: I would really love that change
<dobey> ogra_: so just delete the link and make new containers?
<ogra_> mr_rcollins, right, thats generated
<SylvieLorxu> Especially because I wanted to try Ubuntu Touch because I don't find Android Free Software-friendly enough
<ogra_> dobey, well, move the link in case you want to resore the original file
<ogra_> dobey, see my paste above
<dobey> ogra_: well i don't have an m10 :)
<ogra_> yet ?
<ogra_> :)
<dobey> probably ever
<ogra_> :(
<dobey> i am not a tablet person
<ogra_> use it as laptop ;)
<ogra_> i heard sergiusens plans to do that
<dobey> yeah no :)
<dobey> -ENOTENOUGHPIXELS
<mr_rcollins> Does ssh not offer external access?
<ogra_> FHD on 10" ?
<PaulFraOSAA> SylvieLorxu: About it coming with vi, sadly it does't come with vim, so using it for coding becomes even harder
<ogra_> mr_rcollins, only key based ... you need to put the key in place via adb (or wget it if you have it on a server)
<mr_rcollins> Ok.
<mr_rcollins> Is all of this in the wiki? I'd hate to keep asking questions that are answered somewhere. :-)
<ogra_> mr_rcollins, to enable ssh permanently: android-gadget-service-enable ssh
<ogra_> no., it is sadly spread all over the internet ... much is on askubuntu
<ogra_> oh
<ogra_> android-gadget-service enable ssh
<ogra_> no dash :)
<mr_rcollins> not just service ssh start?
<ogra_> nope
 * mr_rcollins is currently scrounging through drawers trying to find a charger and a USB cable to charge his tablet.
<ogra_> (i mean, yes, but that will be gone after reboot)
<troyready> mr_rcollins I've been in the same boat, feeling kinda bad asking what are almost certainly the same n00b questinos that all the new m10 owners are going to just keep asking over and over
<PaulFraOSAA> mr_rcollins: it seems they seem
<dobey> ogra_: plus, i'd have to carry a bunch of extra hardware, and it wouldn't be powerful enough, and can't use steam and such on it
<PaulFraOSAA> sorry about that
<ogra_> you use steam on a laptop ?
<mr_rcollins> chroot or Libertine will solve my cli problems.
<dobey> ogra_: i've been looking at maybe getting a new laptop recently, and i'm not interested in anything less than 4k, or over 13"
<dobey> ogra_: yes, not all games require a GPU farm
<ogra_> yeah, i'm pondering upgrading my XPS13 too
<mr_rcollins> Oh, what about reverse direction scroll? Is there anyway to get the full Ubuntu system settings?
<mr_rcollins> With the FHD tablet somethings are pretty small.
<dobey> ogra_: also have a couple of things i have to run under wine, still
<ogra_> only X11 apps :)
<ogra_> there is wine for arm ... you just need to port the windows apps ;)
<ogra_> trivial stuff *g*
<PaulFraOSAA> Well, dosbox should take care of some of it
<ogra_> heh, true
<PaulFraOSAA> Ran Daggerfall off a Raspi :)
 * ogra_ hasnt actually tried installing dosbox in libertine 
<mr_rcollins> Is the lock screen supposed to rotate?
<ogra_> nope
<SylvieLorxu> Ugh, the store is SO SLOW
<SylvieLorxu> It's like I'm running the actual Ubuntu 15.10 :P
<ogra_> i think thats on the TODO ... but with low prio
<mr_rcollins> So I just need to figure out why the Today Scope doesn't rotate.
<ogra_> scopes are fixed currently ... for that there is a fix underway i heard
<ogra_> (you can hack the unity8-dash .desktop file (will be overwritten on OTA though) to not lock it )
<SylvieLorxu> Side stage is so disappointing
<SylvieLorxu> I love the idea
<ogra_> depends for what you use it :)
<SylvieLorxu> But if it overlays the fullsize app on the left, it makes that app unusable
<SylvieLorxu> If it wasn't for that I'm sure I'd use it all the time
<ogra_> i'm currently chatting in kiwi-irc from the tablet ... havint a telegram instance in the sidestage ... that works pretty well
<ogra_> *having
<SylvieLorxu> Only if you don't need whatever is on the right side of the main app
<ogra_> right
<SylvieLorxu> I really wish it'd just resize the main app, so it never overlays :(
<dobey> that seems like a bug
<ogra_> mzanetti, ^^is there anything plannet to mke the sidestage actually a WM tile ?
<ogra_> (so that the bg app resizes)
<PaulFraOSAA> Sidestage?
 * ogra_ guesses its to late for mzanetti on a friday :)
<ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, grab the running app with three fingertips and drag it to the right side of the screen
<ogra_> a grey window slides in where you can drop it
<PaulFraOSAA> Wow, A manual would really be awesome
<ogra_> surely would
<PaulFraOSAA> Just realized I'm in desktop mode and can just restore the windows if I want to see more than one at a time XD
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> there is a toggle switch to turn desktop mode on/off ... sometimes helpful :)
<PaulFraOSAA> Now I just need a BT mouse so I can actually resize the windows
<ogra_> you can resize them with a fingertip ... it is just very fiddly
<PaulFraOSAA> Yeah, I found it. When I connected my keyboard it didn't automatically switch to desktop mode
<ogra_> no, it only hides the OSK
<ogra_> mouse is the bit that triggers desktop mode
<SylvieLorxu> Desktop mode should tile
 * SylvieLorxu installs i3 ;)
<ogra_> lol
<PaulFraOSAA> Not that bad with the fiddlyness
<ogra_> true ... but you notice it is more designed for mice
<SylvieLorxu> Mice are evil
<ogra_> hitting the minimize button can also be tricky
<PaulFraOSAA> Yes, but in desktop mode I'm really not too surprised.
<PaulFraOSAA> Hitting any button can be tricky. Doing the browser based irc I logged off about 4 times trying to switch channels
<dobey> trackballs forevar!
<ogra_> nah ... mice are fine ... you can tain them with cheese ... with what do you train a trackball ?
<ogra_> **train
<dobey> gravity
<ogra_> ok, the chances you have gravity with you are indeed bigger than having cheese with you ...
<SylvieLorxu> You don't need to train a trackball
<ogra_> you win :)
<SylvieLorxu> It's always on the right track
<ogra_> oh, indeed !
<PaulFraOSAA> dobey: balls to that, I haven't found out how to connect my logitech USB reciever so that I can use it ;)
<dobey> otg adapter, but it probably won't work, because kernel has very limited set of drivers enabled
<dobey> pretty sure logitech unifying receivers are not supported by that kernel
<PaulFraOSAA> dobey:  I think I need to install solaris as well...
<dobey> i don't think the solaris kernel will run on the device
<ogra_> dobey, the tablet uses the android 5.x kernel source ... might be that thats in the defconfig
<dobey> ogra_: i doubt it
<ogra_> external devices got better support in 5.x ...
<dobey> ogra_: usb-serial adapters are not enabled either :-/
<ogra_> bah
<ogra_> we shoudl fix that ;)
<ogra_> and send a patch ...
<dobey> yes, alecu and i would much like to have at least a few of the most common usb-serial drivers enabled
 * ogra_ would like usb-audio ... 
<dobey> but then we need some way to also do confined access to serial ports for apps
<dobey> and background processing
 * PaulFraOSAA would like some serial stuff too... and a compiler...
<ogra_> snappy will fix that ;)
<dobey> i doubt it
<ogra_> dont be so pessimistic
<ogra_> you already can have your snaps talk to serial ports ... (that was about the first HW bit we implemented alonng with gpio access)
<PaulFraOSAA> QtSerial is really cool. Would it be possible to implement it like with GPS and stuff like that?
<ogra_> you'd have to use C++ and check if the interface is exposed in the SDK already
<ogra_> (i doubt the latter)
<dobey> yes, well, a raspberry pi is not a phone
<ogra_> and ?
<ogra_> snappy is snappy :P
<ogra_> the base will be identical
<dobey> somehow i don't think that's true
<ogra_> i'm pretty sure it is/will be
<dobey> ask 10 people what snappy is, get 10 different answers
<ogra_> that will change
<PaulFraOSAA> Only the sanctioned version of the truth will be accepted!
<ogra_> lol
<mr_rcollins> Will I be able to set up an SD card with ext4 in the tablet?
<PaulFraOSAA> It seems you will, but you will need to mount it yourself every time
<ogra_> you should be ... fdisk/sfdisk as well as mkfs.ext4 should be there
<dobey> i think i need a beer
<ogra_> +1
<baum> by chance someone could link me to the official issue tracker?
<ogra_> baum, see the channel topic
<baum> oh, thanks :)
<ogra_> :)
<baum> another stupid question, which bootloader is the aquaris m10 using?
<ogra_> whatever android has ...
<ogra_> some fastboot thingie ...
<ogra_> (thats actually an area that ubuntu never touches)
<dobey> wow, this totally smells like cherry cola too
<ogra_> how many %%% ?
<ogra_> above 20 ?
<baum> hmmm i see, thanks :)
<dobey> 5.5
<ogra_> then it shouldnt smell like cherry cola
<mr_rcollins> What are Ubuntu Touch apps written in? It seems like most of the apps are just wrappers around a website (Pocket, for example).
<dobey> ogra_: but it's a "best damn cherry cola"
<ogra_> hah
<ogra_> mr_rcollins, QML
<ogra_> (and javacript for the plumbing)
<ogra_> *javascript
<dobey> mr_rcollins: depends on the app; webapps are just "apps" that run a website in a confined browser view.
<mr_rcollins> What about games?
<mr_rcollins> QML?
<baum> one last question for now: i've seen a lot of promo about the social media integration, are these opt-in or out features?
<ogra_> QML, SDL ... HTML
<PaulFraOSAA> Well QML is the front end, anything you want done for reals is C++
<ogra_> baum, heh, what kind of promo
<dobey> well, not everything is qml
 * mr_rcollins hopes he can get Atari800 running.
<ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, i havent needed C++++ yet with any of my apps
<dobey> baum: social media integration?
<dobey> ogra_: you are all #teamgolang now right?
<ogra_> nah
<ogra_> for the phone i'm totally team javascript...
<dobey> so you're not a true snappy developer then?
<PaulFraOSAA> Okies, the reccomendation from Qt is to do anything with presentation in QML and anything else in C++ in order to get perforamance out of the device
<ogra_> dobey, nah, just a plumbing joe that makes new HW work and catherds the images
<baum> i read in variouse blogposts about this gamechanging system :p
<mr_rcollins> PaulFraOSAA, from the AskUbuntu Site: https://it-bqcom15-media.s3.amazonaws.com/prod/resources/manual/Aquaris_M10_Ubuntu_Edition_Complete_User_Manual-1460548936.pdf
<ogra_> i do go if i need to (i wrote some patches to u-d-f actually)
<PaulFraOSAA> I'd hope most developers would follow that. I'd hate my tablet to get slowed down by JS
<dobey> baum: i'm still not sure what you're talking about :)
<dobey> did you find some blog posts from 2009?
<ogra_> baum, you should perhaps expand on what you mean with "social media integration"
<dobey> ogra_: remembeer "social from the start" ?
<PaulFraOSAA> mr_rcollins: I'm sorry I can't see that link "no application for that type of file" what is it?
<baum> give me a sec - on my mobile
<ogra_> there is a facebook, a twitter and a telegram app preinstalled
<ogra_> you can uninstall all of them if desired
<dobey> facebook and twitter are just web apps too
<ogra_> right
<mr_rcollins> PaulFraOSAA, try it from my dropbox: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/172539/Aquaris_M10_Ubuntu_Edition_Complete_User_Manual-1460548936.pdf It's just a pdf.
<dobey> there's a twitter scope, but i don't think you can do much interactively with it, as it's a scope
<ogra_> there are scopes that you can also use ... thats about it with "social media integration"
<baum> ogra_:  thats exactly what i wanted to know thanks
 * ogra_ suggestes PaulFraOSAA installs the document viewer app :) 
<ogra_> its a pretty decent docviewer for a lot of formats ...
<PaulFraOSAA> I have it, Just not from inside the KiwiIrc
<baum> guess pre installed fb and twitter makes it a dealbreaker for me =/
<ogra_> pmcgowan, why is the docviewer not preinstalled btw ? to big ?
<ogra_> baum, huh ?
<ogra_> baum, you dont need to use them
<ogra_> and can even remove them
<pmcgowan> ogra_, hmm, not sure
<ogra_> baum, note that this isnt android :)
<ogra_> (apps cant spy on you or anything)
<baum> sure, but i dont want that stuff on my system in the first place, nore do i want to support practices like that. thanks for the information though :)
<baum> i'm aware of that, i wouldn't use android either :)
<ogra_> they are just little containerized browsers that open twitter.com or facebook.com mobile pages ...
<dobey> baum: they are literally just bookmarks to the web sites
<ogra_> well, they are a lot safer than a boookmark :)
<dobey> well, a little bit, sure
<ogra_> (since the borwser that gets spawned cant see anything of the system)
<ogra_> (not even other browser data)
<ogra_> anyway ... they are there because jow normaluser simply expects them
<ogra_> *joe
<dobey> baum: "practices like that" <- like what?
<ogra_> but yeah, if two icons are an issue for you the system is probably not for you ... i think we evejn have them inteh developer images
<dobey> just long press the icon and tap uninstall
<dobey> and bam, out of sight, out of mind
<baum> guess i'll run it in a vm and pass by tomorrow, sounds like i am quite a bit missinformed
<dobey> one of the first things i did 2 years ago when i put ubuntu on my phone was to uninstall the fb and other webapps i don't use
<baum> thanks for the headsup
<dobey> sounds like you are making uninformed assumptions
<ogra_> you cant run it in a vm (well there is an emulator that comes with the SDK but it functions rather badly)
<ogra_> oh
<baum> dobey: hope to see you online once i'm on a keyboard - quite handicapped atm
 * ogra_ just noticed it is the day of the german Reinheitsgebot ...
<mr_rcollins> Thanks for all the help! I'm heading home.
 * ogra_ gets another beer to celebrate that :) 
<dobey> heh
<ogra_> 500 years even
<dobey> german beer?
<ogra_> the purity law for it
<ogra_> german beer is probably 1000 years old :)
<ogra_> or older
<dobey> i mean, is the beer you're drinking, german? :)
<ogra_> ah, yeah
<ogra_> sadly i dont have any of https://fstatic2.mtb-news.de/f/k0/1f/k01f9pi2e02d/large_Fukking_Hell.jpg?0
<dobey> ogra_: which beer is it?
<dobey> heh
<ogra_> that would be the proper celebration beer
<dobey> indeed
<ogra_> just a warsteiner ... nothing exciting
<dobey> ah
<ogra_> boring pils :)
<dobey> lol, what is that piston holding up in the background
<ogra_> he is cuddling with the devil
<dobey> no no, behind the beer. there's a connecting rod and piston holding up some kind of shelf, on the desk or whatever
<ogra_> oh... no idea ... thats a totally random pic
<dobey> ah
<ogra_> google search for "fucking hell bier"
<dobey> i'll just add the beer to my wishlist on untappd :)
<dobey> https://untappd.com/b/fucking-hell-gmbh-co-handels-kg-fucking-hell/133446
<ogra_> it is funny how people rave about the taste there
<ogra_> the highlight is the name stupid !
<dobey> heh
<dobey> aww
<ogra_> ?
<dobey> bottled instinct only has a day left on indiegogo and only at 1500/150K eur goal
<ogra_> uuh
<ogra_> they really let that in at indiegogo ?
<dobey> they let anything in at indiegogo i think
<dobey> lol
<ogra_> i bet they have *some* kind of policy
<dobey> the 10K eur "perk" is hilarious
<ogra_> if i'd start a "kill $president_of_some_funny_country" caimpaingn to hire a sniper they surely wouldnt
<PaulFraOSAA> mr_rcollins: Thanks for the link, I've been looking for that but couldn't find it
<grouperguy> hey guys
<dobey> hi
<grouperguy> I have a nexus 7 (2012 grouper) does anyone know if there is still some ubuntu available for it?
<dobey> there is not
<ogra_> nope
<PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: No, that's on darkgogo, you need to tor into that
<grouperguy> what about this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation
<dobey> that's incredibly close to "darph bobo"
<ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, lol
<grouperguy> its not maintained but does that mean its not wise to install?
<ogra_> uh
<ogra_> why was that page never deleted
<grouperguy> you tell me
<ogra_> that died when we started ubuntu touch
<dobey> grouperguy: android doesn't even run well on the grouper :-/
<ogra_> well, at least there is a red disclaimer at the top
<ogra_> "we strongly urge users to re-flash to Raring 13.04"
 * ogra_ grins
<dobey> grouperguy: the hardware/drivers are not very good, at least for video, so it's not usable to attmpt getting ubuntu on it
<grouperguy> ahh man ;_; what can I do with my grouper
<ogra_> install an android image
<ogra_> i guess thats about the only option
<ogra_> or create something yourself ... from scratch
<Guest22379> Hi all I've a driver question, should a Realtek usb gb ethernet adaptor work with Ubuntu Touch?
<grouperguy> yeah I updated to the latest cyanogenmod but its super slow
<dobey> grouperguy: use it to tan your chin
<grouperguy> ok sorry for buggy you guys
<dobey> grouperguy: i have a grouper too. yeah android is slow on it
<grouperguy> dobey: hehe I first have to shave my neck
<dobey> grouperguy: but ubuntu was much worse off at the time we stopped supporting it, after we switched to mir from surfaceflinger
<dobey> Guest22379: probably not. there are very few drivers built into the kernel
<grouperguy> so ubuntu touch was using mir?
<dobey> yes, ubuntu uses mir on phones/tablets
<Guest22379> Can i add some generic android driver?
<grouperguy> any idea why they didnt implent it in 16.04?
<dobey> grouperguy: implement what?
<dobey> unity8 is not ready to replace unity7 on the standard PC ISO images
<grouperguy> I mean add mir to 16.04 by default
<grouperguy> ok
<grouperguy> thanks dobey
<dobey> Guest22379: no; you'd have to build a custom kernel probably
<grouperguy> I will leave you guys and install some other buggy android on my grouper
<grouperguy> bye
<Guest22379> is there an outline anywhere of adding drivers to ubuntu touchM
<dobey> Guest22379: porting guide in the topic describes how to build kernels and such
<Guest22379> I saw a presentation slide-deck from a couple of years ago and it looked like the drivers where mostly in the lxe container pretending to be androidm or is that out of date?
<dobey> Guest22379: you'd need to get the tree for your device, and change the kernel config for it, then rebuild
<PaulFraOSAA> Why is it that every mir distrib must do their own QML library? I mean, I code in Qt for Linux, when running that on my android I can just run it, Jolla forced me to use QML, fair enough but they also wanted me to use their own (propriatary) stuff. Now Ubuntu touch has all these Ubuntu QML only libraries. IMHO it kinda defeats the whole point: that
<PaulFraOSAA>  I can code once and distribute to all platforms with no difference in my code.
<dobey> because then all the OSes would look the same and be ugly
<dobey> what's the point of that
<PaulFraOSAA> dobey: No, thats the point of QML (and Qt BTW) everyone can style their buttons so that windows buttons, mac buttons, android buttons, jolla "buttons" and ubuntu "buttons" would look different. Even KDE and Gnome buttons could be made to look different but in my QML file I'd only have to write "include QtQuick 2.0; Button..."
<Guest22379> thanks dobey i'll give it a go, I imagine it'll invalidate my warranty :/
<PaulFraOSAA> Well QtQuick.Controls 2.0 actually but still
<ogra_> thats more about design princples though
<dobey> PaulFraOSAA: it's not just about look. it's about interaction as well
<ogra_> (teh ubuntu sauce on top)
<dobey> and you can't "theme" interactions
<PaulFraOSAA> No, but you _can_ layer that on top of a themed skin
<dobey> sigh, i hate html/css/js
<dobey> yes, you have to write new widgets
<dobey> and then people have to use those widgets
<dobey> :)
<dobey> and well, the ubuntu bits are not proprietary. they are open source. so you could use them on android too i guess, if you ship them with your app there
<PaulFraOSAA> If I'd want to use the drag-from-the-bottom menu from ubuntu or the drag-from-the-top menu from Jolla, I'd have to handle that, but I could still have a common part that was built up using just .Controls stuff
<dobey> and you still can
<ogra_> if you feel like you can
<ogra_> (add a comma where appropriate)
<dobey> that's what Loader{} is for, right?
<PaulFraOSAA> Hmm, I might still be too disappointed with the Jolla stuff, haven't taken the ubuntu SDK for a spin yet to be honest, I was just seeing a trend...
<PaulFraOSAA> Well tomorow is a latter day, maybe I'll fire up some hello worlds and see what it is al about
<mzanetti> ogra_, yes
<mzanetti> ogra_, can't give a time estimate though
<mr_rcollins> Do SDL apps work in a chroot?
<mcphail> mr_rcollins: sdl is tricky. SDL2 works with Mir, but the default version which ships with Ubuntu 15.04+PPA (i.e. on the phone) doesn't work properly
<ngamradt> Hello, I just received my Ubuntu M10 tablet
<mr_rcollins> That's too bad, I wanted to run Atari800 on my M10. :-)
<ngamradt> I updated to the 10.1 version of the OTA
<mr_rcollins> ngamradt, welcome to the club!
<mr_rcollins> I'm still learning, got mine at lunchtime.
<ngamradt> Thanks, mr_rcollins
<ngamradt> I have some general questions
<mcphail> mr_rcollins: if you pinch the verison of SDL2 from some of the apps on the store (such as my bg1 app) you might be able to coax an SDL2 app into working
 * k1l gets jealous on all the guys with the m10
<ngamradt> Do the phone/tablet releases come out at regular releases like desktop?
<mr_rcollins> mcphail, I'll attempt it soon. Learning what all libertine is about.
<mcphail> ngamradt: updated system release come out every few weeks
<ngamradt> Also, for those with the M10. Did anyone else have trouble with the location services after the upgrade to 10.1?
<mr_rcollins> I turned it off, it kept "flickering"
<mcphail> mr_rcollins: I haven't explored libertine yet
<troyready> I also had the flickering issue; seemed to go away after reboot
<troyready> Then I just disabled gps
<ngamradt> will there be a build based on 16.04 soon?
<mr_rcollins> I had just restarted, and it does look like it's working now.
<ngamradt> So it appears others are having the flickering issue too. Glad to know that it isn't just my hardware
<ngamradt> Troyready: The flickering issue came back for me after  reboot, unfortunately.
<ngamradt> I assume this is the best place to come to fir the latest phone/tablet news/questions?
<ngamradt> I logged out by mistake.
<mr_rcollins> :-)
<ngamradt> Is there a feature roadmap for Ubuntu Touch somewhere
<ngamradt> Okay, I have to sign off for now. Thanks for all the information so far.
<mariogrip> dobey: They should be out later today or tomorrow :)
<qorrect> just got me M10
<qorrect> my*
<qorrect> trying to figure out how to enable write mode so that I can download some development tools, but virtual box can't see my tablet for some reason, is there any other way to enable apt-get and friends ?
<troyready> nice -- welcome qorrect
<qorrect> thx! :D
<troyready> qorrect: the better thing to look into is setting up a chroot and/or using libertine
<qorrect> ok thanks I'll look at those
<qorrect> gonna try a live cd and see if it will see the device, brb rebooting
<bregma> I wouldn't use Libertine until after the OTA 11 update, it's still missing a few pieces to get it out of preview mode -- they're in the queue for OTA 11
<Acou_Bass> bregma: will libertine actually be in OTA 11 then? on all builds or just -pd ones?
<bregma> Acou_Bass, libertine is in the Ubuntu archives, we're targeting it to be in all builds at some point in the nearish future (including the desktop ISO), but I don't have an actual OTA when that will happen
<bregma> probably not until after OTA 11
<Acou_Bass> ahh cool
#ubuntu-touch 2016-04-23
<Acou_Bass> im in no rush to see libertine - but its definitely a piece of the puzzle that interests me a lot :D
<peat-psuwit> What happens with "CyanogenMod/android_external_koush_Superuser" repo on code-review? It's referenced in phablet-4.4.2_r1's manifest.
<lotuspsychje> mcphail: did you find this one? https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/desktop/get-started/
<mcphail> lotuspsychje: ta. Hadn't seen thath one. So it _does_ seem to install from the store. WOnder why it wouldn't work for owncloud...
<lotuspsychje> not sure
<mcphail> Aargh - 64MB for the calculator app, then it also downloads the whole 120MB of snappy-core!!. That wasn't what I was expecting...
<lotuspsychje> lol
<mcphail> Not really native. I already had snappy core running in a vm
<lotuspsychje> mcphail: but it explains, users will be able to install via ubuntu-software
<lotuspsychje> mcphail: so i guess when a dev adds a snap, users will see it in their software center?
<mcphail> lotuspsychje: looks as if it will be a "post 16.04 upgrade"
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<mcphail> Aaaand launching teh calculator just gives me libgl errors. :(
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@R00TBOOK:~$ snap find calculator
<lotuspsychje> error: no snaps found for "calculator"
<lotuspsychje> hmmz
<mcphail> Clearly not ready for primetime
<lotuspsychje> mcphail: also installing calculator
<lotuspsychje> lets c what happens
<lotuspsychje> error: cannot perform the following tasks:
<lotuspsychje> - Download snap "ubuntu-calculator-app.ubuntucoredev" from channel "stable" (snap not found)
<lotuspsychje> oO
<mcphail> It is becoming easier to keep my excitement in check about this feature
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> mcphail: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/build-apps/
<lotuspsychje> mcphail: would owncloud fit in 'common repos'?
<mcphail> lotuspsychje: the whole thing about owncloud is it doesn't really "fit" in the common repos, and the maintainers have asked Ubuntu to remove it. There is a snap (which can be installed in snappy core) which is a bit out of date. But the maintainer is a canonical chap and the github page suggests it should work better in 16.04
<lotuspsychje> aha
<mcphail> lotuspsychje: gtg - popping into work for a while
<lotuspsychje> mcphail: found somehting
<lotuspsychje> mcphail: sudo snap find
<lotuspsychje> mcphail: https://utappia.org/2016/04/22/how-to-search-install-remove-snap-packages-in-ubuntu/
<lotuspsychje> check it when your back :p
<mcphail> lotuspsychje: ta! Will have a look
<lotuspsychje> mcphail: yay! sudo snap install nmap worked!
<o2IRC> hello
<o2IRC> im curious if anyone here knows if it's possible to dual-boot the coming meizu pro 5 with android for use of specific apps?
<o2IRC> also curious on the whole scopes thing, is there even a terminal in the OS?
<o2IRC> hello?
<lotuspsychje> !patience | o2IRC
<ubot5> o2IRC: Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<saavento> Hello
<lotuspsychje> o2IRC: there are rom managers that can dualboot android and ubuntu-touch yes
<saavento> I have little information about the release of the OTA 11
<lotuspsychje> o2IRC: and yes ubunt touch has a terminal
<saavento> Anyone knows any estimated time?
<lotuspsychje> saavento: are you missing something important?
<saavento> Media streaming player
<saavento> :)
<lotuspsychje> saavento: perhaps you can find that request already in the bug url list?
<saavento> Yes, meanwhile I think I will try the libertine
<saavento> libertine is like containers, right?
<lotuspsychje> didnt test yet
<saavento> Ok
<dobey> o2IRC: terminal app in the store. i don't know if dual boot is possible on the pro5
<o2IRC> thanks for answering, dobey! i think i will ask about the dual-boot in the forums
<SylvieLorxu> How do I get rid of all these useless bloatscapes like 7digital, Amazon, BBC Sport, Etsy, etc.? I could remove some from the Ubuntu Store but, unlike apps, long-pressing them doesn't show their store entry with an "Uninstall" button
<lotuspsychje> SylvieLorxu: search for scopes on the ubuntu store and uninstall
<lotuspsychje> SylvieLorxu: but not all of them you can uninstall
<Acou_Bass> do not all of them have the uninstall option in the store? thats weird
<lotuspsychje> Acou_Bass: no, ive tested that and some are hardcore
<lotuspsychje> Acou_Bass: perhaps their part of anothr app/scope
<Acou_Bass> not usually - 7digital is its own scope but is able to automagic into the music scope
<Acou_Bass> i was gonna suggest doing it via pkgcon in terminal... but not sure if thatll work if theyre installed in the rootfs
<SylvieLorxu> lotuspsychje: Well, that's, that's a semi-acceptable workaround
<SylvieLorxu> Thanks
<lotuspsychje> SylvieLorxu: the scopes you dont like, just disable with the *
<lotuspsychje> SylvieLorxu: they will sit and do nothing at bottom right
<SylvieLorxu> lotuspsychje: I don't like just disabling things, I want to actually delete them. Like Facebook Photos Scope, screw that :D
<SylvieLorxu> I wish Ubuntu Touch came with less proprietary bloat, but at least you can remove it, unlike most Android devices
<SylvieLorxu> So meh, it's ~okay
<lotuspsychje> SylvieLorxu: do you have main FB app installed?
<SylvieLorxu> Nope, removed that too
<SylvieLorxu> But the Facebook Photes scope stuck around, only the main Facebook scope disappeared
<baum> dobey: ^ this was my point yesterday.
<lotuspsychje> SylvieLorxu: yeah noticed that on some scopes myself, its true
<Acou_Bass> i didnt know there was a facebook scope aside from the photos one, unless you mean the bundled webapp
<SylvieLorxu> Acou_Bass: https://uappexplorer.com/app/com.canonical.scopes.fbphotos
<baum> i want to decide on my own what to install, not buy a tablet with opt-out advertisment
<lotuspsychje> Acou_Bass: some apps, come with a default scope
<SylvieLorxu> baum: Same, but hey, at least it's opt-out unlike on Android
<Acou_Bass> ive not got a facebook scope, only the photos one
<Acou_Bass> id love a facebook scope, does it show the newsfeed and everything? :O
<baum> SylvieLorxu: i'd rather compare the system to sailfish - and on sailfish that stuff is opt-in
<Acou_Bass> im still trying to decide whether i want my eggs in the ubuntu touch, or sailfish basket
<SylvieLorxu> I'm honestly surprised hom many of Ubuntu's apps are proprietary
<Acou_Bass> i tried sailfish and its probably the nicest mobile OS ive used in a long time - however, ubuntu has the 'pocket PC' style to it which im hugely in favour of
<SylvieLorxu> Like "Tasks". Of all things, these simple things become proprietary?
<SylvieLorxu> Also, basically every scope it seems
<baum> Acou_Bass: i'm running Sailfish as my main phone for about 2 years now - quite happy. i'm sure it could be better, but it does what it's supposed to :)
<Acou_Bass> yeah i ran it for a couple of months before i jumped to ubuntu
<Acou_Bass> i was REALLY happy with it, even using it on a completely unsupported phone using a slightly hacked-together build
<Acou_Bass> as a long-term n900 user it felt good to be 'home' :D
<baum> guess if mine would break i'd get a fairphone&sailfish
<Acou_Bass> but, one of the things i loved about the n900 was the ability to run 'real' desktop linux programs on it, which is something i like about ubuntu touch
<Acou_Bass> so... its sort of... better, slicker, more polished OS, vs. desktop apps and convergence potential... and right now im going for ubuntu but that could change in future ;D
<baum> heh i see, just ordered a tablet yesterday night, kinda curiouse about the system
<SylvieLorxu> Whaaat
<SylvieLorxu> I can't remove 7digital? :(
<Acou_Bass> ive unfortunately found ubuntu to be a bit less performant than sailfish, in the UI anyway
<Acou_Bass> it has that 'old android versions that were slightly stuttery' feel to it
<baum> on which hardware?
<Acou_Bass> im using a nexus 4
<Acou_Bass> and considering i ran sailfish on a ZTE open C which is a firefoxOS device and therefore slow as F, i sort of expected ubuntu to run beter than that :P
<lotuspsychje> SylvieLorxu: look for an existing bug @ the bug filling url in topic
<lotuspsychje> SylvieLorxu: if you dont find one, file a new bug
<SylvieLorxu> lotuspsychje: I hove no clue where it should even go
<lotuspsychje> SylvieLorxu: search for existing ones about scopes
<baum> Acou_Bass: you just made me wonder wether the tablet will be lagfree =/
<SylvieLorxu> lotuspsychje: I have no clue which of these are even relevant: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Avengers#Scopes
<mcphail> Acou_Bass: there is a big issue with the Ubuntu QML components being slow and unoptimised. Apps which don't use the Ubuntu components run much better. I understand a lot of work is being done to make the Ubuntu components better. Hopefully they can squash the lag in opening new apps
<mr_rcollins> My biggest issue is that lousy Today scope stuck in landscape. Annoying. :-)
<mr_rcollins> Oh, and that the login screen doesn't rotate.
<lotuspsychje> SylvieLorxu: not sure wich category myself
<Patrick--> My BQ M10 arrived yesterday and I am finding quite a few issues. Is anyone else having issues with rotation, where I am unable to rotate the device sometimes.  I have had it in a state where I can have it any direction except with the camera at the top
<mr_rcollins> The today scope forces landscape
<mr_rcollins> Which is a pain
<mr_rcollins> start thebrowser and see if it rotates
<Patrick--> It didn't rotate on me
<Patrick--> I just was testing with the browser, I rotate into portrait and it goes right away. I turn it back into landscape and it doesn't change until I shake the device
<mr_rcollins> That's weird. Did you update and restart?
<Patrick--> Yep
<mr_rcollins> Maybe someone knows how to check the sensor?
<Acou_Bass> mcphail: like i said, im not overly bothered about the lag, its just something to consider :P i understand as a relatively early adopter im buying into something that might not necessarily be perfect right now ;D
<baum> did anyone try to install an alternate window manager like i3wm or xmonad on the tablet yet?
<Acou_Bass> there was a video a while ago of XFCE running on it (not on the tablet, but on utouch)
<baum> nice
<Acou_Bass> Gotta love enlightenments weird bugs
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> Acou_Bass: testing on xenial?
<Acou_Bass> Apparently pressing the letter P causes the wm to crash
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Acou_Bass> No, on arch Linux
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> Acou_Bass: i tested it last year on 14.04, crashed on me aswell for no reason
<Acou_Bass> I'm running latest -git code so yrah bugs galore
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> i always loved enlightment
<lotuspsychje> weird dark desktop :p
<Acou_Bass> yeah me too
<Acou_Bass> but recent versions have felt more like suicide than a nice desktop experience which is a shame because it has some amazing features other desktops mis
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Acou_Bass> it seems to be the only floating WM that has per-monitor workspaces, which i am inhumanly addited to
<lotuspsychje> yeah thats nice
<mr_rcollins>  I didn't know that! I've been spoiled with that under os x.
<lotuspsychje> mr_rcollins: what enlightment?
<mr_rcollins> Yeah. I've never played with it
<lotuspsychje> !info e17
<ubot5> e17 (source: e17): Enlightenment DR17 Window Manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.17.6-1 (xenial), package size 1671 kB, installed size 6383 kB
<Acou_Bass> e17 is wayyyy old
<Acou_Bass> ere up to e21 now
<Acou_Bass> n fact e17 even has the token fork from dudes who want 'the good old days'
<lotuspsychje> Acou_Bass: but thats with ppa?
<Acou_Bass> not sure... i dont run ubuntu on desktop so ive not a clue about things like that
<Acou_Bass> i would assume so though
<lotuspsychje> !info e21
<ubot5> Package e21 does not exist in xenial
<Acou_Bass> !info enlightenment
<ubot5> Package enlightenment does not exist in xenial
<Acou_Bass> !info e20
<ubot5> Package e20 does not exist in xenial
<Acou_Bass> hmm
<Acou_Bass> e21 is still alpha so if anything its probably 20.6 thatd be available
<lotuspsychje> i dont think ubuntu repos got latest
<Acou_Bass> ahhh yeah theres a PPA
<Acou_Bass> https://www.enlightenment.org/distros/ubuntu-start
<Acou_Bass> ahh well i need to hop back away from E, its still got the same old performance issues ;( shame
<Guest22379> I tried following the instructions on the wiki for getting the dev environment going, however I'm trying it on Xenial and there is no mingw32, is it importantM
<lotuspsychje> Acou_Bass: wasnt there a distro with built in enlightment also?
<lotuspsychje> elive or so?
<Acou_Bass> Bodhi is the big one
<lotuspsychje> ah
<Acou_Bass> There use to be an arch spin with it too
<lotuspsychje> zenwalk?
<Acou_Bass> Bodhi are the guys doing the e17 fork too
<Acou_Bass> Dunno if it was zenwalk? Don't remember hehe
<Acou_Bass> Problem is enlightenment is a fast moving target, if yyou find a bug their usual answer is 'use git build, won't fix in stable '
<lotuspsychje> http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.be/2010/12/ten-linux-distros-that-use.html
<Acou_Bass> So distro packagers hate it hehe
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<mr_rcollins> What are the US people using to charge the M10?
<mr_rcollins> Mine was on a 2amp charger all night and only brought the charge up 18%.
<Acou_Bass> 0,o
<Acou_Bass> Isn't there a us specific charger?
<dobey> hmm
<dobey> loicm: 7digital not being uninstallable isn't a bug. it's not a scope that's installed on the phone. it's a remote scope that's running on the server
<dobey> err
<dobey> that wasn't for loicm
<dobey> oh well
<mr_rcollins> About bass, I haven't heard of anyone getting one. Mine is European.
<melvster> hi all ive been trying to update my nexus4 over the air but no luck for a day -- can I do it via usb cable and something like ADB?
<melvster> i have ubuntu-device-flash installed too
<melvster> hmmm
<melvster>  adb shell system-image-cli -i current build number: 243 device name: mako channel: ubuntu-touch/devel alias: ubuntu-touch/utopic last update: 1970-01-01 04:20:04
<melvster> Can I just do : ubuntu-device-flash touch
<melvster> ro.build.version.incremental=20140902-2009-0ubuntu1 ro.build.version.sdk=19 ro.build.version.codename=REL ro.build.version.release=4.4.2 ro.build.date=Tue Sep  2 23:13:06 UTC 2014
<melvster> ubuntu-device-flash touch # worked! :)
<melvster> hmm it keeps cycling between the apps page and the scopes whirligig ...
<melvster> restarted it, now it shows the ubuntu screen with 5 red dots (so far for about 5 minutes)
<melvster> 15 minutes now ... adb shell works tho
<melvster> Binder_2 and mediascann+ are hitting the CPU on top
<mcphail> melvster: if you're using the "devel" channel, don't expect it to boot. That's the "16.04" issue we talked about yesterday. If you want a cuuting-edge channel which works, use rc-proposed
<melvster> mcphail: It was working for a bit but only when i restarted it did it not boot.  I dont think i set 'devel' -- I left it blank, which I read means it used 'stable'?
<melvster> i had to restart it because it kept switching between the app home screen and scopes splash
<melvster> I've backed up the data now.  Maybe I can just start from scratch?
<mcphail> melvster: something you posted earlier had "channel: ubuntu-touch/devel"
<melvster> mchphail: ah ... that was from the debug of adb shell system-image-cli ... so maybe I put devel on it ages ago, good spot!
<melvster> so shall I just do : ubuntu-device-flash touch CHANNEL=stable ?
<mcphail> melvster: stable or rc-proposed
<mcphail> melvster: I can't rememebr the exact syntax
<melvster> thanks ill copy from the wiki page I Think its: ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=stable or --channel=ubuntu-touch/stable/ubuntu
<melvster> 2nd one
<mcphail> melvster: there's certainly a command to list the available channels, and you can then paste the text
<mcphail> melvster: and there's also the branded channels, which are stable+goodies from the bq phones (such as semi-working gps and extra scopes)
<melvster> oh great!
<melvster> mchphail: well ive flashed stable to the phone, again its stuck on the boot screen with ubuntu this time a red bar underneath half full
<melvster> unxz is running when i adb shell into the device
<melvster> re channels on the wiki https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/image-channels/ it says : Nexus 4	 ubuntu-touch/stable/ubuntu
<mcphail> melvster: if it is the first boot after a flash, gove it a while to unpack
<melvster> ok, actually the bar did just move! :)
<mcphail> :)
<melvster> side question: can I run a nodejs server on this device?  e.g. with npm install then run it via adb shell?
<mcphail> I haven't tried. Most things _can_ be done, depending on whether you're happy making the root filesystem writable and accepting any breakage which occurs. An alternative would be to create an ubuntu app running the node server (I haven't seen any .clicks running node, but there are some .snaps), but your app would be under the control of the lifecycle management and would be suspended when screen off
<mcphail> (or use a chroot)
<melvster> mchphail: awesome, phone is now working, thanks for help! :)
<mcphail> melvster: nice
<AuroraAvenue> Need a hand here with a Nexus 4 & Ubuntu Touch.
<AuroraAvenue> when I terminal ..  adb devices I get nothing.
<AuroraAvenue> I'm on 16.04
<Acou_Bass> developer mode enabled?
<Mikaela> Ubuntu Touch uses Android Development Bridge?
<AuroraAvenue> I clicked on the Settings â About phone  and clicked it several times. A lollipop came up . Is it done ?
<Acou_Bass> oh wait, is it still running android?
<AuroraAvenue> yes atr the moment.
<Acou_Bass> ahhh thought you meant youre not getting adb in ubuntu touch :p
<AuroraAvenue> yes i'm trying to put ubuntu touch on a nexus 4.
<Acou_Bass> ahhhh you need to enable USB debugging in developer options in the setttings
<AuroraAvenue> how do i do it ?
<Mikaela> tap the build version a few times where you got the lollipop
<Acou_Bass> then settings -> developer options -> enable usb debugging
<AuroraAvenue> I can't see "developer options" on settings :(
<Acou_Bass> did you tap the build version as above first to get the popup saying developer mode enabled?
<AuroraAvenue> yes the lollipop grew into a big one.
<Acou_Bass> you said you tapped about phone - you need to tap build version 7 times
<Acou_Bass> now when you close out the settings ap pthen re-open it, developer options should be available
<Mikaela> getting lollipop means you tapped Android version instead ofnthe build version
<AuroraAvenue> oh ok.
<AuroraAvenue> ok got it !
<Acou_Bass> woohoo
<AuroraAvenue> i shall now proceed.
<Acou_Bass> the hard part is over... just unlock bootloader then phablet tools does the rest ;D
<AuroraAvenue> It's still not listing attached devices (?) Do I need to re-start anything ?
<Acou_Bass> maybe restart adb server
<Acou_Bass> adb kill-server
<Guest22379> I'm trying to follow the wiki instructions linked in the motd to get a build environment set up, 'phablet-dev-bootstrap phablet' fails due to failure to fetch 'CyanogenMod/android_external_koush_Superuser'
<Guest22379> has anyone managed to get an environment setup recently?
<AuroraAvenue> tried adb kill-server still nothing on showing 'listed' devices.
<SylvieLorxu> Is there any way to get the Ubuntu QML elements on Gentoo? I'd like to develop an Ubuntu Touch app, but I don't want to use Ubuntu itself to develop on
<AuroraAvenue> still not listing & it's not 'charging' via ubuntu laptop either. Only have 6% left of battery :(
<mcphail> SylvieLorxu: I think a portable version of the components hasn't been released yet. Some people run the Ubuntu SDK in a container, though. That might be an option?
<AuroraAvenue> what should i do, now ?
<SylvieLorxu> mcphail: You mean like Emacs? ;) Nah, honestly, kinda want to avoid the container mess. Guess I'll just delay Ubuntu Touch app development then
<mcphail> SylvieLorxu: bloomin' gentoo users and their emacs... Ubuntu users use vim!
<SylvieLorxu> I use vim too, I just thought Emacs counted as a container because it's basically a complete OS :P
<mcphail> :)
<Guest22379> It is, pity about the built in editor :]
<AuroraAvenue> Still cant get ubuntu on my phone !
<AuroraAvenue> I wiped windows for this !
<AuroraAvenue> Its charging now.
<mcphail> AuroraAvenue: I'm not sure you can install Ubuntu on a lollipopped nexus 4. You might need to downgrade android first
 * mcphail has lost track of the android codenames
<AuroraAvenue> how do i do that exactkly. This is becoming infuriatingly difficult !
<mcphail> AuroraAvenue: I don't have that phone, but I've seen a couple of people on here have had to do that
<AuroraAvenue> yes howc ?
<mcphail> AuroraAvenue: as I said, I don't have that phone so can't help you. Best time to ask on here is in European office hours. Lots of nexus4 users around then
<AuroraAvenue> This is silly. I buy a modern nexus 4 & i cant do ubuntu. I already wiped windows & all my work for 16.04. C'mon !
<mcphail> AuroraAvenue: try to not get frustrated. It is a fixable problem, with the correct information
<mcphail> AuroraAvenue: flashing ROMS is always a hairy business
<AuroraAvenue> where is the bug that says you cant do it with lollipop ? & I shall put $250 on it to solve it. NOW.
<mcphail> I think there have been changed in adb. In saying that, mariogrip seems to be getting Ubuntu onto 5.x only devices now, so maybe it is being fixed
<AuroraAvenue> I just cant get ubuntu on my phone 'co it wont list the device.
<AuroraAvenue> Now i need to go home to get the charger. Complete waste of my time.#
<ogra_> Nexus 4 flashing only works with 4.4
<ogra_> he needs to downgradehis android first
<mcphail> ogra_: thought so
<melvster> I got a process running on localhost port 8443 and can connect to it via curl.  But I cant connect via the browser, is that normal?
<AuroraAvenue> ogra_: Yeah I just don't know how to do that.
<mr_rcollins> Any way to make Firefox and Libreoffice usable on the FHD version of the M10? Everything is TINY!
<Walex> mr_rcollins: I am looking for that too. Presumably 'unity-tweak-tool' or something like that.
<Walex> mr_rcollins: but I;d say it is an interesting but far from finished product. Consider for example the lack in the base install of a filemanager...
<mr_rcollins> I'm not too worried, I know the software isn't finished.
<mr_rcollins> I set up a chroot on an SD card, that scratches most itches for now.
<Walex> mr_rcollins: that's something I was thinking of doing too...
<mr_rcollins> There is a bug in the terminal when using a bluetooth keyboard. If I switch to another app and type anything, terminal will not accept keys when I switch back. I have to go into the settings and toggle the show keyboard button.
<mr_rcollins> I put it on an SD so I can easily wipe the tablet without losing anything.
<Walex> amusingly a chroot/similar on a card is also the way to install Ubuntu on Chromebooks too.
<mr_rcollins> I'm sitting at a Barnes & Noble using a BT keyboard and mouse. I'm looking very much the hipster.
<Walex> mr_rcollins: as to to keyboard I sometimes lose the ability to type into a window from the sw keyboard too
<Walex> mr_rcollins: argh. hipster-developers have given us terrible sw over the past years...
<Walex> many, many hipster-developers work at Canonical...
<mr_rcollins> Lol, I'm about as far from an actual hipster as you can get. For example, PBR is terrible beer.
<mr_rcollins> Battery life on the M10 seems to be pretty good so far. 10-15% an hour with wifi and bluetooth.
<mariogrip> dobey: the battery update is getting a bit delay,  I found an issue i wan to fix first
<Dayofswords> is it possible to turn a normal ubuntu desktop install into an ubuntu touch install? I've got an old iconia tab w500 with an AMD c50 I'd like to try it on.
<Walex> Dayofswords: you have to reinstall
<Dayofswords> Walex: I haven't figured out how to install ubuntu-touch by itself though, I have the vivid and xenial preinstalled-touch-i386.tar.gz, but it's just the filesystem
#ubuntu-touch 2016-04-24
<horse2950> Hello
<mike00> hi, someone knows which features must have an image to put it like the cover of a song?
<mike00> in the music app?
<Veenit> hi
<Veenit> is anyone around ?
<mike00> yes
<Veenit> hi, I just want to know, can we install latest ubuntu mobile OS on Nexus 7 ?
<lotuspsychje> Veenit: check the install wiki in topic
<lotuspsychje> Veenit: choose a channel you want for your nexus7 and then you will be able to get latest OTA-10.1
<esra> hi all. is it possible to change the user agent of the browser without making a webapp?
<New_> Hello, I have problem with origin, when I rotate with PhysicsEntity the  transformOrigin is not  "Center" but different, where I need set transformOrigin: ship.Center?
<New_> I got it.
<New_> Hello, do sombody know How to use ship.body.applyForce(Qt.point....  for follow direction of object?
<taruti> Is there documentation somewhere what components of the aquaris m10 work A) with vanilla kernels, B) with out-of-tree-patches, C) require binary blobs, D) how closed the device in general is? (is e.g. the bootloader locked?)
<adfad666> is there a problem building on 16.04 or a problem with recent ubuntu downloaded images? my ROMs are not booting correctly, the display does not come on, last time I built was on 15.10 a few weeks ago
<jlkon13> Hello, I just realized that the boot.img file in the out directory is not the bootimage from android. Does ubuntu touch need two boot partitions (one for android boot and one for ubuntu boot)? if yes, how do i have to name those?
<SylvieLorxu> I remember someone here talking about a physical dvorak keyboard for the Aquaris M10 Ubuntu Edition. Does anyone know what that could be and what I should pay attention to when buying a keyboard for the device?
<Walex> SylvieLorxu: any Bluetooth?
<SylvieLorxu> Walex: How do you mean that?
<PaulfraOSAA> Has anyone (of you) gotten their ubuntu tablet to show up in devices?
<PaulfraOSAA> Well I just did :)
<SylvieLorxu> Is there any way to get the source code of an Open Source app in the store?
<SylvieLorxu> Or do users upload binaries?
<SylvieLorxu> s/users/developers/
<PaulfraOSAA> SylvieLorxu: I think you need to figure out where (github/gitlab/sourceforge/bazaar/etc...) they have their code for each and every one
<SylvieLorxu> PaulfraOSAA: Okay, so I'm out of luck for "Open Source" apps without a link (which may very well be scammy apps)
<SylvieLorxu> I did notice that the checks on the store are really bad
<SylvieLorxu> I've already seen several "Open Source" projects that are just a proprietary web game wrapped in some web shell
<PaulfraOSAA> SylvieLorxu: Well, if it is open source you could always write the guy that uploaded it and get the source code from there...
<SylvieLorxu> Technically, although frankly, it's really unlikely to be the case :P
<SylvieLorxu> On that note, how are users supposed to report bad apps?
<SylvieLorxu> Malware, incorrect license, whatever?
<SylvieLorxu> There doesn't seem to be a button in the store app for that
<Walex> SylvieLorxu: The obvious way to use a keyboard with Ubuntu Touch devices is to get a Bluetooth keyboard.
<Walex> SylvieLorxu: the "Open Source" apps ought all to be in the standard Ubuntu repositories.
<SylvieLorxu> Walex: Well, yes, I understand that. Still, there seem to be a lot of such devices and they're all fairly expensive
<SylvieLorxu> Walex: That still doesn't tell me how to access the source code :P
<kwah> hello, is there anybody out there?
<lotuspsychje> !ask | kwah
<ubot5> kwah: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<kwah> question: how one can switch keyboard layout of M10 tablet in desktop mode, when physical keyboard is attached?
<kwah> lotuspsychje: thanks for reminder. washed out of my mind. rarely use irc.
<lotuspsychje> kwah: no sweat mate, best to idle a longer time in this channel due to timezones
<lotuspsychje> kwah: and re-ask your issue once in a while
<kwah> lotuspsychje: thanks, noted.
<lotuspsychje> kwah: another option is place your question to askubuntu
<PaulfraOSAA> kwah, was Idling, when you have your keyboard connected you can change the language setting in Settings->Language & Text-> external keyboard
<kwah> PaulfraOSAA: yep, that one I've found out. But... How to change actual layout from keyboard?
<kwah> There are no settings related to it.
<kwah> Tried obvious: Alt+Shift, Ctrl+Shift, Ctrl+Space. Did not work.
<PaulfraOSAA> Yeah, I couldn't find that one either. Actually I couldn't get the setting to stick at all, The top one was the only one to stay in settings next time I got in there
<kwah> Hm, have not checked yet...
<kwah> PaulfraOSAA: both added layouts are still there, but what is the point of having them, if you cannot switch from one to another?
<PaulfraOSAA> Well, at least you can change it now. Googling i found that that is a recent feature, maybe it will come some day...
<PaulfraOSAA> kwah: Also any "dead" keys and AltGr keys won't work
<kwah> PaulfraOSAA: what can you change? The only thing I can change is settings. Cannot change keystrokes keyboard sends to system. It is still English.
<PaulfraOSAA> kwah: When I change my keyboard to Danish dvorak I can use it to type danish dvorak, however all the AltGr buttons are missing (just a right alt)
<kwah> PaulfraOSAA: can you be more specific on how you "change...keyboard to Danish"?
<PaulfraOSAA> I do it by selecting Danish (dvorak) from Settings->Language & text->External keyboard->Layouts and other sources->All layouts available, check the checkbox at the right hand side and disable all other layouts ( or just move them down )
<kwah> That is hideous. If I move Russian layout to top, keyboard indeed starts to use it.
<kwah> Wow. That's the trick.
<kwah> PaulfraOSAA: OK, it is kinda working. But it is unusable in reality.
<PaulfraOSAA> kwah: How's that unusable? It's not optimal, but most ppl still just use one keyboard layout. Agreed it would be better if it was possible to switch using either a keyboard shortcut or a setting in the sidebar, but it is usable for now
<kwah> PaulfraOSAA: it is unusable even in communication. I type to you in English, while at the same time I am communicating with my spouse in Russian. Switching keyboard layout with a key-combo is a must for me.
<PaulfraOSAA> kwah: You should devote more attention to your spouse instead of writing to me then ;P
<kwah> PaulfraOSAA: common, that was just an example, and she is now back to Russia, while I am not ;) Anyway, even speaking about ubuntu issues on #ubuntu-ru would be problematic. Like you give an instruction in Russian, and type next to it commands to execute in terminal.
<kwah> Be my guest to try this out on tablet and share your experience :D
<PaulfraOSAA> My russian is not that good ;) But I see what you mean. It's pretty unusable for me too, since there is no way to type in { } or[], That makes it really hard to program!
<kwah> I suspect that Danish has Latin-based alphabet, right?
<kwah> For alphabets that are not Latin, this is a show-stopper.
<kwah> Although, we are used to it, and every computer-savvy person with some Internet exposure can read/write so called "tanslit" :D
<kwah> PaulfraOSAA: is there already a bug related to this?
<kwah> Anyway, went ahead and submitted bug 1574365
<ubot5> bug 1574365 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Touch needs way to switch external keyboard layout" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574365
<JanC> this is actually a very good question: http://askubuntu.com/questions/761818/how-do-i-change-the-hostname-on-ubuntu-touch
<popey> JanC: indeed!
<popey> we should have a bug to track that
<JanC> I was just looking over the system settings if there was maybe something new but didn't see anything
<popey> I was looking for a bug for it but can't find one
<popey> will file it.
<JanC> something else: it would also be nice if screen lock & screen saver weren't forcibly combined... having to typing in a passcode/password all the time is annoying  :)
<kwah> And address bug 1574365 please ;)
<ubot5> bug 1574365 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Touch needs way to switch external keyboard layout" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574365
<popey> What do ios / android people do?
<popey> ios devices have a hostname of "John's iPhone" if I recall?
<JanC> hostnames with a space in them?
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1574370
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1574370 in Canonical System Image "Cannot change hostname of devices" [Undecided,New]
<kwah> android has some strange android-xy68jna mumbo-jumbo. at least that is what I see in the router
<JanC> maybe they use bonjour or something to broadcast that nice "John's iPhone"?
<popey> probably
 * popey looks at his router
<popey> "Alan-Popes-iPad"
<popey> there you go :)
<popey> and "android-955f9c624aa629f"
<popey> when it gets too long they just strip letters out .. "ClarePoesiPhone"
<JanC> would be nice if you could set it manually though (what if you have multiple iPads?)
<melvster> does ubuntu touch use snappy?
<JanC> I guess Android uses some unique string based on (a combination of) serial number, MAC address, IMEI, etc.
<mr_rcollins> JanC, under iOS go to Settings -> General -> About and you can set the name of the iOS device.
<JanC> popey: ^^^
<grasstype> hello. Does anyone know of a way to install development libraries on the M10? I was hoping to use it at work to learn c++ etc
<mr_rcollins> How is anyone charging their M10 tablet? My 10W iPad charger provides enough power, but it doesn't charge the tablet.
<SylvieLorxu> mr_rcollins: I use the provided charger :P
<mr_rcollins> grasstype, for commandline stuff use chroot.
<grasstype> mr_rcollins, I just use it with whatever my phone charger is. Takes a long time though
<grasstype> mr_rcollins, ooo, chroot. Now I gotta figure out how to use that
<mr_rcollins> The iPad charger actually discharged the tablet.
<JanC> why not use the default charger?
<mr_rcollins> The charger that came with it looks like I could use it as a taser, but it's not going to work for me. (European charger, I'm in the US)
<grasstype> JanC, I don't know about him, but I live in america. Included charger doesn't fit in plug
<JanC> well, any USB3-compatible charger really?
<grasstype> USB2.0 does work, just takes like 12 hours or so
<mr_rcollins> I grabbed a 6 port USB charger, and it is working. Let me try my Asus charger from my Nexus 7.
<SylvieLorxu> Hmm, Bq really should've thought of that
<SylvieLorxu> Have you tried mailing Bq support, see if they have a suggestion?
<JanC> my bq phone charges with both the supplied one & a cheap Chinese no-brand one
<SylvieLorxu> Seems fair to mail them seeing how they messed up giving American a proper charger :P
<mr_rcollins> I wonder if the iPad charger just doesn't like the M10.
<kwah> Maybe he has not disclosed his whereabouts :D
<grasstype> at least the charger is USB, so it's something we can work around. I'd rather have the tablet with a workaround than none at all
<mr_rcollins> True.
<grasstype> Hell, I've actually postponed getting a new phone for like a year and a half waiting for something
<JanC> if it's made by Apple, they probably lock out fast charging for other devices or something  :P
<mr_rcollins> The charger that ships with the table should work in the US, I just need an adapter.
<mr_rcollins> s/table/tablet/
<JanC> if you have 240V
<mr_rcollins> It says 100-240.
<kwah> grasstype: too bad Radioshack went bankrupt. They had adapters.
<kwah> Maybe other similar place too look for one? When I visited US some time ago, they were pretty affordable, few bucks a piece.
<JanC> mr_rcollins: hm, just checked and my phone charger says that too, even though those plugs are only ever used with 220-240V
<grasstype> I wonder why american went with 120 volt anyways
<grasstype> seems weird
<JanC> it used to be 110-120V here too, long ago  :P
<JanC> at least in some places
<kwah> 120 - you are too optimistic. I think it even worse, like 110.
<grasstype> oh right, 110 sounds right
<grasstype> numbers all blur together
<mr_rcollins> I knew at one time why america was 120/60 and Europe was 240/50, but I can't remember...
<grasstype> wikipedia might know
<JanC> when I was a kid it was 220V, which has slowly been going up to 240V
<JanC> still 50Hz
<grasstype> it's funny how that is actually holding back some advancement in america. Electric cars are basically crying at 110
<JanC> I think most car chargers here are at 360V actually  :)
<grasstype> so... following the ubuntu community chroot directions isn't working
<mr_rcollins> Looks like 110v in America was related to Edison's choice of 110 for his DC system.
<grasstype> apr-get doesn't work, mkdir doesn't work because read-only filesystem
<JanC> same you would use for your electric kitchen stove or an electric welding device
<mr_rcollins> grasstype, install the terminal app (which I assume you are already in), and then download the image for chroot. Let me see if I can find the directions I used.
<grasstype> ah,used mkdir chroot in ~/Documents, that worked
<grasstype> ignored the directions to sudo apt-get schroot and debootstrap, not sure if I'll actually need those
<grasstype> but yeah, I'm in terminal
<mr_rcollins> Yeah, I downloaded the vivid chroot, did some mounts, and then did the chroot.
<mr_rcollins> But I can't find the directions I followed.
<grasstype> download the chroot image from where?
<mr_rcollins> Oh, and to make it just slightly more difficult, I did it on an SD card so I could wipe the tablet if I need to.
<mr_rcollins> Here it is: http://askubuntu.com/questions/620740/recommended-way-to-install-regularcli-deb-packages-on-ubuntu-phone/622047
<mr_rcollins> Use the first answer.
<grasstype> wow, copy paste without a mouse is interesting
<mr_rcollins> Outside of the chroot I had to do a "mount -t devpts devpts /home/phablet/PATH/TO/CHROOT/dev/pts" so that tmux would work.
<grasstype> and... will I guess I can type it manually
<mr_rcollins> Tap and hold?
<grasstype> doesn't work
<grasstype> I can highlight it with some care, but ctrl+c doesn't seem to copy it
<mr_rcollins> shift-control c
<mr_rcollins> Oh wait, which browser? Browser or Firefox?
<grasstype> and to paste it? browser
<grasstype> firefox is really ugly and seems to crash on me
<mr_rcollins> Paste it should be shift-control v
<grasstype> that just gives me a big V
<grasstype> ctrl v does paste something, but it's still not what I highlighted from xchat
<grasstype> lol, this is amazing
<mr_rcollins> Oh, yeah, I think X11 apps and Mir apps have different keyboards.
<grasstype> haha
<grasstype> so maybe if I used firefox
<grasstype> nope, still doen't work
<kwah> interesting. shutting down M10, disconnecting keyboard/mouse, and powering it up again gets system loaded into desktop mode. Bug?
<grasstype> kwah, does yours convert automatically? I just convert mine from desktop to tablet mode manually
<grasstype> with system menu in upper right
<kwah> grasstype: it goes automagically from to desktop mode upon connection of keyboard. and back upon disconnect.
<kwah> at least
<grasstype> mine doesn't
<kwah> I use logitech kb+mouse combo with unified receiver connected to USB OTG adapter. seems to work for this arrangement.
<grasstype> alright, well I got a lead. Looks like it might require some time, caffiene, and attachmenet to my desktop. Thanks for the help guys!
<mr_rcollins> grasstype, crap, I meant clipboards, X11 and mir apps have different clipboards.
<mr_rcollins> The Asus charger is working great with the tablet. Maybe 25% an hour?
<dobey> mariogrip: ok, thanks
#ubuntu-touch 2017-04-17
<zedroid> Hello! Could you please help me? how compile  unity-system-compositor for ubuntu touch?
<sebsebseb> oh such a nice channel at times it was :d  but  now nearly 200 people  here, but I guess pretty much dead since yeah.  well at least two unity 8  forks are coming :)
<sebsebseb> and ubuntu touch fork
<sebsebseb> bregma_: so uhmm I guess libertine is dead to then?  unless thats forked some how into a fork hmm ?
<bregma_> sebsebseb, there's a fork at https://github.com/ubuntu-libertine but with the Unity Desktop Environment being dropped  in favour of GNOME even for the Unity 8 forks, there probably won't be much call for a safe, secure way to run existing software on personal computing devices
<sebsebseb> bregma_: well ubports is going to try and fork the whole of ubuntu touch
<sebsebseb> so that's where it could be used I guess
<sebsebseb> ?
<sebsebseb> bregma_: what do you think about this news?  you were paid to work on this stuff weren't you?
<bregma_> I was
<bregma_> it was a great idea and a great ride, but not it's over
<sebsebseb> bregma_: yeah what you doing now instead?  and what do you generally think of the news?
<sebsebseb> not you mean now ?
<bregma_> yes
<sebsebseb> bregma_: well people still in here
 * sebsebseb wonders if any of the Canonical people will volunteer to the forks
#ubuntu-touch 2017-04-19
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubports-recommends-buying-fairphone-2-oneplus-one-or-nexus-5-as-ubuntu-phones-514949.shtml
 * ogra_ wonders what mariogrip plans to do regarding the browser and webapps ... odixe will surely not be maintained anymore
<ogra_> *oxide
<ogra_> (unless chrisccoulson feels like doing it in his spare time indeed :) )
<Mister_Q> ogra_, that's not a blocker for moving on pushing the canonical devices on our server. THEN we can start worrying about app issues.
<ogra_> Mister_Q, sure, i just think the webbrowser (and webapps support) is quite an essential bit of the system and was wondering if anyone thought about how to go forward with it
<Mister_Q> ogra_, sure we have a big list of stuff to worry about but first we have to do the big things until we can start solving the other things
<ogra_> indeed, i'm aware of that
#ubuntu-touch 2017-04-21
<anshuman> what is ubuntu touch
<Acou_Bass> query: are the UBPorts efforts going to be continued in this IRC channel, or is there another one theyre all migrating to?
<chocolaterobot> hi all. do you think it's a good idea to install ubuntu on my Chuwi Hi12 tablet?
<chocolaterobot> i just bought it and should have it in my hands soon. :)
<chocolaterobot> is it quiet here often?
#ubuntu-touch 2017-04-23
<chocolaterobot> hi all. i just bought a chuwi hi12 tablet. can it work with ubuntu?
<chocolaterobot> hello?
<chocolaterobot> anybody here?
<mimecar> hi
