#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-04
<Aquina> 'lo
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<davmor2> morning charlie-tca how's life?
<charlie-tca> exciting as can be!
<charlie-tca> Natty is coming soon now
<davmor2> charlie-tca: how's Xubuntu shaping up had no time to look at it this time round :(
<charlie-tca> I thinnk it is a good release
<charlie-tca> Not too many issues, considering the changes that have happened
<PsynoKhi0> hi
<charlie-tca> Hello, PsynoKhi0 
<imagus> Hey
<imagus> Hey
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-05
<Aquina> hy
<likemindead> This morning's updates borked my Xubuntu Natty install. Freezes up at login screen. Freezes up trying to boot to recovery mode. Halp?
<PsynoKhi0> hi
<PsynoKhi0> boy is qemu slow w/o hardware vitualisation XD
<charlie-tca__> What about VBox?
<micahg> yeah, that's why I'm stuck with Virtualbox until I get my new laptop
<PsynoKhi0> does that work at all on a CPU that doesn't have hardware virtualization extensions?
<micahg> PsynoKhi0: 32 bit yet, 64 bit now
<micahg> *no
<PsynoKhi0> 32 bit vbox, or 32 bit guest?
<micahg> 32 bit gues
<micahg> *guest
<PsynoKhi0> oh
<PsynoKhi0> brb
<PsynoKhi0> damn, missing kernel driver...
<micahg> PsynoKhi0: install virtualbox-ose-dkms
<PsynoKhi0> I'm running opensuse ;)
<charlie-tca__> heh
<charlie-tca__> much harder to help when you run that
<knome> not only harder, but renders it to be not-our-problem :P
<PsynoKhi0> ah... btw, the virtual machine I'm setting up is xubuntu natty beta 1
<PsynoKhi0> ^^
<charlie-tca__> yeah, but the VBox guest is not the issue, the host is
<PsynoKhi0> I know I know... simply clearing things up so you guys don't start thinking "wtf is this bloke doing here anyway?" :D
<knome> PsynoKhi0, well #ubuntu+1 for bugreports ;)
<charlie-tca__> Not on opensuse
<knome> heh, of course not
<micahg> knome: #ubuntu+1 is only for natty support
<charlie-tca__> and, actually, to tell us here about issues in natty is good
<knome> but if he gets to boot natty
<micahg> s/natty/devel release/
<micahg> #ubuntu-bugs is for bug filing
<charlie-tca__> This is the devel channel, right?
 * micahg thinks /topic still says that
<knome> micahg, bugs should be filed at Launchpad anyway
<knome> :P
<knome> not on irc
<charlie-tca__> Then, Yes, tell us about natty issues here, please
<PsynoKhi0> FIY I don't run any *buntu anymore but I still think it's the best for new users, so anything that helps GNU/Linux adoption is good
<micahg> knome: I meant help filing bugs, not reporting them :P
<knome> :P
<charlie-tca__> support for natty is #ubuntu+1, issues should be brought up in #xubuntu-devel. We might be able to resolve them before filing the bug.
<knome> charlie-tca__, so should we point all users (even when alpha) here rather than #ubuntu+1 with their problems?
<charlie-tca__> knome: don't be silly
<knome> i am serious
<charlie-tca__> so am I
<knome> what makes you think i'm joking?
<charlie-tca__> obvious you did not read what I said above
<charlie-tca__> support for natty is #ubuntu+1, issues should be brought up in #xubuntu-devel. We might be able to resolve them before filing the bug.
<charlie-tca__> Where does that say point all natty users here?
<knome> charlie-tca__, i did, no reason to repeat; "issues should be brought in #xubuntu-devel"
<knome> +up
<knome> that says "tell them to come here"
<charlie-tca__> Why would you ever decide that? 
<knome> you said so
<knome> i've been pointing users to #ubuntu+1
<knome> if a user has a problem with a xubuntu development release, where should he go?
<knome> #ubuntu+1 ?
<knome> but tell the issues here?
<knome> so both?
<knome> or do we only want issues after beta is released?
 * micahg thinks the issues charlie-tca__  was referring to were actual bugs, not just how tos
<charlie-tca__> All support questions go to #ubuntu+1 for natty. All development issues go here.
<knome> is there *support* even in #ubuntu+1 before beta?
<charlie-tca__> and you are simply being obstinate again
<micahg> s/actual/perceived/
<charlie-tca__> There is support in #ubuntu+1 before alpha1 normally
<knome> charlie-tca__, i'm not being stubborn, i'm trying to point people to the correct place
<charlie-tca__> If 
<knome> charlie-tca__, how does a user/helper know when it's a development issue and when not?
<charlie-tca__> If we are not to know about issues before beta, why do we ask anyone to file bugs when they discover problems?
<charlie-tca__> There is nothing that says you can not install +1 as soon as possible and have problems with it.
<knome> of course, but what separates a problem and a development issue?
<charlie-tca__> If they come in here, we allow them to tell us the issue. We can then decide, can't we?
<knome> okay, so does that mean everybody should be sent here first and not #ubuntu+1 ?
<charlie-tca__> no
 * micahg feels like he's in a time warp
 * knome feels like charlie isn't coherent
<Unit193> I think knome is asking at what point do you get sent here?
<PsynoKhi0> hmm gonna file a bug for an infinite loop in the xubuntu-devel IRC channel, brb...
<PsynoKhi0> ;P
<charlie-tca__> It's not really as hard as you make it
<knome> Unit193, yes, that, and what kind of issues should be sent here
<knome> charlie-tca__, please remember that you are the one that's triaging bugs
<charlie-tca__> If the user comes in here and tells us he has a problem with natty, we do not send them away. We ask what is wrong
<knome> charlie-tca__, when it's alpha, i might not know *anything* about the dev release bugs
<knome> charlie-tca__, you do
<charlie-tca__> We might have a fix already, that has not been published yet
<knome> that's the difference
<knome> charlie-tca__, that's why it's easy for you
<charlie-tca__> and that is why *you* do not send the user away from here
<knome> i didn't?
<knome> i was asking whether i should send the user *TO* here
<knome> or #ubuntu+1
<knome> but i still don't have an answer
<micahg> knome: support #ubuntu+1, perceived bugs here
<knome> micahg, in which way perceived? by the dev community or the single supported?
<knome> *supported
<knome> BAH
<knome> supporter
<micahg> knome: if the user is about to file a bug, come here first
<knome> how many times are they going to file bugs, even with non-development versions, if you don't tell them to? :)
<knome> bbl
<PsynoKhi0> heh I needed to reboot :P
<PsynoKhi0> vbox now works... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand natty beta1 is up yay :D
<Unit193> PsynoKhi0: Just be glad it's not like Win updates... "You have just updated your help file, you need to reboot" then tells you every 5min and if you don't click "wait" it's going to reboot FOR you
<PsynoKhi0> I mean the vbox kernel driver needed a reboot to get loaded
<PsynoKhi0> a modprobe might have worked too but oh well
<PsynoKhi0> anyway... still stuck with that tiny icon for the main menu eh?
<charlie-tca__> natty?
<charlie-tca__> yes
<PsynoKhi0> at least something happens when one puts the mouse pointer over it...
<charlie-tca__> yup
<PsynoKhi0> I'd still go for something similar to Opera 11 and Firefox 4 though
<charlie-tca__> We did give you firefox 4
<PsynoKhi0> I mean their main menu button
<charlie-tca__> Now I am lost
<charlie-tca__> They are applications, not desktops
<PsynoKhi0> http://www.opera.com/browser/ Opera 11, http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Firefox_4_beta_screenshot.png&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Firefox_4_beta_screenshot.png&usg=__9ruSktmNUHoKAUIGRu4_ZOTLeWs=&h=224&w=457&sz=82&hl=sv&start=21&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=O0Ma-sIwUAayjM:&tbnh=63&tbnw=128&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfirefox%2B4%2Bscreenshots%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dsv%
<PsynoKhi0> 26client%3Dopera%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dsv%26tbm%3Disch&ei=P1mbTYr7A4jVsgadv7H8BQ Firefox 44
<PsynoKhi0> urgh
<PsynoKhi0> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Firefox_4_beta_screenshot.png Firefox 4
<PsynoKhi0> http://img232.imageshack.us/f/panelit3bigmenubutton14.png/ this was a suggestion
<PsynoKhi0> IMo main menu button = largest element on an empty panel
<PsynoKhi0> other than that, congrats on the polished desktop
<charlie-tca__> for reasons I can't remember but are in the meeting minutes, we can't do it this time
<PsynoKhi0> XFCE's limitations?
<charlie-tca__> Ubuntu got us, I think
<charlie-tca__> Much of what they do affects us
<PsynoKhi0> are you referring to the Ubuntu wheel in my proposal?
<charlie-tca__> No, the reason we can not grow the button big
<PsynoKhi0> if so np, dump it for a downwards pointing arrow or so
<PsynoKhi0> oh
<PsynoKhi0> man that's weird
<PsynoKhi0> for people who slam "user experience" and "usability" left and right...
<PsynoKhi0> I mean, the icon for shutting down the computer is LARGE than the one to do most of the useful things with it, for crying out loud...
<PsynoKhi0> LARGER*
<charlie-tca__> It will be for this release
<charlie-tca__> the end of an era:  http://blog.canonical.com/?p=551
<charlie-tca__> no more shipit service for Ubuntu CD's
<charlie-tca__> hm, I should have said it will not be larger for this natty release. Perhaps a way will be found to grow it for oneiric
<PsynoKhi0> ok
<PsynoKhi0> is there a preview of the installation slideshow anywhere?
<PsynoKhi0> if at least the menu button and the dock make it there...
<charlie-tca__> must be one in bazaar, but I don't know the details. It is on the live cd
<PsynoKhi0> ./usr/share/ubiquity-slideshow :)
<PsynoKhi0> ./usr/share/ubiquity-slideshow/slides/05-desktop.html to be precise... it shows the main menu, the launcher panel, so this is I think really nice
<PsynoKhi0> also liking the fact that content is hidden by default when moving windows around, great for not so peppy computers
<PsynoKhi0> we have a winner here :)
<PsynoKhi0> gigolo installed by default, awesome
<PsynoKhi0> hmm is it XFCE's default to have the font that big in the terminal?
<charlie-tca__> That big?
<charlie-tca__> Is it 10 or 12 pt?
<PsynoKhi0> bigger than the rest of the desktop in any case
<PsynoKhi0> 12
<PsynoKhi0> setting it to 10 makes it more homogenous with the rest though
<charlie-tca__> It only appears bigger, normal fonts should be 12 pt, but that might not be droid fonts
<charlie-tca__> That should be monospaced, right?
<PsynoKhi0> the font yes, the size set to 12 makes it look bigger though
<charlie-tca__> mr_pouit: is it possible to change the size of the default terminal font?
<PsynoKhi0> I know I'm very picky when it comes to the desktop's overall consistent look :D
<PsynoKhi0> I like gigolo, though I suppose having the menu entry decribing what it does rather than what it's called might be better for users who've never used it
<charlie-tca__> menu names are fixed, it causes a lot of other issues to change them
<PsynoKhi0> ah, shame
<PsynoKhi0> shame too that I didn't take the time to have the mouse pointer over the name >.<
<Unit193> Quick idiot question: does gigolo do local disks? (don't have two in this box)
<charlie-tca__> no, it does network drives, normally windows
<PsynoKhi0> hmm I remember local drives not present in fstab appearing  in Gigolo
<Unit193> Thanks charlie-tca__, I have used gigolo for SMB...
<PsynoKhi0> partitions, more exactly
<PsynoKhi0> though I never tried to mount them there
<charlie-tca__> I could be wrong, I mount mine through ssh
<charlie-tca__> pleia2: the wireframe - compositing bug should be fixed on tomorrows images
<pleia2> charlie-tca__: I saw the bug update! yay :) I'll try to find time to test
<charlie-tca__> Thanks for doing the testing you did!
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca__: yup, it's possible
<charlie-tca__> Apparently the 12pt monospace looks big compared to the droid 12pt default now
<charlie-tca__> We should look at making it 10pt, maybe, just for the mono font
<charlie-tca__> PsynoKhi0: bug report for terminal font, please. It will be wishlist, to change the font size.
<charlie-tca__> PsynoKhi0: it will against xfce4-terminal
<mr_pouit> no, against xubuntu-default-settings
<charlie-tca__> oops
<charlie-tca__> PsynoKhi0: it will be against xubuntu-default-settings
<mr_pouit> and I think 10pt might be too small
<charlie-tca__> I guess I have to do an install and look at it, but droid is smaller than normal, too
<charlie-tca__> At least to my eyes
<charlie-tca__> I don't think any font on my system is at the defaults, I reset everyone of them.
<charlie-tca__> and I change them in each app too, so they stay where I put them
<mr_pouit> with the default syntax coloration in the shell, when you do "ls", folders are in blue color, bold font, and I'm not sure it'll be very readable if the font is too small
<charlie-tca__> at least a wishlist bug will keep us from forgetting to check it out
<mr_pouit> anyway, that will be different for everyone, so it's annoying to have a default setting ;>
<charlie-tca__> crap, I must have changed that too, then
<charlie-tca__> So, we don't even need the default setting? ;-)
<charlie-tca__> oops, I don't think I even look at terminal much, since I install guake on my system
<mr_pouit> I think the default default setting is even bigger ;]
<charlie-tca__> might be
<PsynoKhi0> erm does creating a Launchpad account REALLY requires one's real full name?
<charlie-tca__> yes
<PsynoKhi0> then sorry
<charlie-tca__> Keeps things honest
<PsynoKhi0> I understand the reasoning behind it, though unfortunately having my name for all to see on the web gives me the creeps
<mr_pouit> I think you can put whatever in it
<charlie-tca__> I googled my full name, first, middle, last, and found out there are a half dozen of us in the USA alone.
<charlie-tca__> and it is pretty unique
<PsynoKhi0> that's why I prefer the brainstorm page to launchpad
<Unit193> PsynoKhi0: My first and last name are the only ones in USA, so I just put: firstname and first letter of lastname
<charlie-tca__> I have seen some use their email name, too (part before the @)
<PsynoKhi0> I'll give it some thought :) bedtime now though, good night!
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-06
<Aquina> 'lo
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<PsynoKhi0> hi
<PsynoKhi0> erm sorry can't remember the exact name of the package for the bug report against the terminal font... was it xfce-default-settings?
<charlie-tca> xubuntu-default-settings
<PsynoKhi0> ah thanks
<PsynoKhi0> submitted
<PsynoKhi0> bug #752886
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 752886 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "XFCE terminal font appears bigger than other text" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/752886
<PsynoKhi0> wow nice! :D
<charlie-tca> Easy, right?
<PsynoKhi0> Quite streamlined indeed
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-07
<micahg> mr_pouit: xubuntu seems to have regressed (no education menu, internet menu became network)
<micahg> s/education menu/education menu icon/
<mr_pouit> yeah, confirmed :/
<mr_pouit> I probably dropped too many patches from garcon
<mr_pouit> although I checked everything was upstream
<mr_pouit> sigh
<mr_pouit> bah, no, it's one commit upstream
<mr_pouit> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/garcon/commit/?id=799e206b6780ee6bab2bb56debf8412dca0346f5 breaks the menu file choice
<mr_pouit> micahg: Bug #753274
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 753274 in garcon (Ubuntu) "Incorrect menu file chosen" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/753274
<micahg> mr_pouit: thanks
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<Aquina> hello charlie! :-)
<charlie-tca> Hello, Aquina 
<ochosi> charlie-tca: is there anyone to take care of xubuntu-docs?
<charlie-tca> Book em dano got the together, they should be ready for natty
<mr_pouit> if they are ready, I'll upload
<mr_pouit> when is the meeting?
<charlie-tca> 19:00 UTC
<charlie-tca> 3 hours
<mr_pouit> eh, okay
<ochosi> charlie-tca: nice
<ochosi> sry guys, i can't attend the meeting today (friend's birthday)
<ochosi> but i guess i don't have many news anyway
<knome> i don't know if i can attend either...
<ochosi>  * icon-theme was updated to fix gdm, xfce-panel-plugins etc.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 60 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: is the xubuntu meeting still un the ubuntu-meeting room?
<Unit193> beardygnome: Yes,  it's in #ubuntu-meeting
<knome> beardygnome, starts in 45mins
<beardygnome> cool, thanks
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 8 minutes, or when TB finishes theirs. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<pleia2> charlie-tca: no updates from me (I'm alone at the office today, so can't particpate in meting)
<charlie-tca> okay
<pleia2> oh, I nudged canonical on that ticket, no reply
<pleia2> for wordpress
<charlie-tca> We will be looking at better metting day and time, Maybe I need to send an email out for that.
<charlie-tca> Thanks for following up with canonicla
<charlie-tca> um, canonical, even
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I forgot the hard freeze for natty date - Beta 2 freeze - 4/11 (at UTC 09:00 ) - hard freeze
<micahg> oh, it's UTC 09:00
<micahg> ?
<charlie-tca> Unseeded Universe/Multiverse Freeze - 4/26 (at UTC 12:00)
<charlie-tca> yeah
<charlie-tca> times seem to move around
<charlie-tca> any other freeze we need? kernel and main?
<charlie-tca> Main/Seeded Final Freeze 14 days (4/14->4/28)
<charlie-tca> but I don't have the time for that one
<charlie-tca> should I ML the freeze dates/ times?
<Unit193> I take it it's fine to subscribe to the dev ML to just watch and know what's going on? (I just did)
<knome> Unit193, of course.
<Unit193> I'm at all the meetings and in here all the time, but was missing all the stuff put out on the ML
<charlie-tca> yup, that is a good idea, then
<Unit193> You sure did a good job on 11.04 (Testing the beta)
<charlie-tca> We try harder, we are number 3
<charlie-tca> knome: email will go to ML for new times for meeting.
<knome> charlie-tca, right, thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-08
<gohai> hi
<gohai> i am testing the xubuntu beta
<gohai> and noticed that there is often a greyish rectangle below the new scrollbars
<gohai> e.g. in gedit
<gohai> is this something that you are well aware of
<gohai> or worth filling a bug?
<mr_pouit> I think I know what you're describing, but could yo make a screenshot?
<mr_pouit> *you
<gohai> sure
<mr_pouit> you can put temporary images on imagebin, or similar I think
<gohai> will upload.. sec
<gohai> put it here: http://sukzessiv.net/x120e/gedit-scrollbars.png
<mr_pouit> mmh, this doesn't look like a resize grip
<mr_pouit> ochosi: http://sukzessiv.net/x120e/gedit-scrollbars.png < do you know what's the grey rectangle below the scrollbar?
<gohai> it's like the scrollbar gets the window height wrong
<gohai> you know what package these fancy scrollbars belong to? i thought this would be overlay-scrollbar but that's not even installed here..
<mr_pouit> ah, these weird rectangles only appear when the window isn't maximised
<mr_pouit> and only in abiword and gedit so far
<mr_pouit> mmh, no, I just had them in the Appearance settings dialog also
<mr_pouit> gohai: from the gtk theme
<mr_pouit> (greybird)
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<gohai> yeah, I see them in the Appearance settings as well
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i think those rectangles are leftovers of the "resize-grip" patch by ubuntu
<ochosi> mr_pouit: they didn't appear before that, and they're not present in maverick
<ochosi> mr_pouit: don't think i can do anything about that in the gtk-theme
<mr_pouit> yay
<mr_pouit> gohai: try to file a bug against gtk+2.0 then
<gohai> in ubuntu launchpad that is?
<mr_pouit> 99.9% probability it'll be marked as invalid, but that's worth trying anyway
<mr_pouit> yes please
<mr_pouit> hey charlie-tca ochosi 
<charlie-tca> here, finally
<mr_pouit> gohai: (different topic) and for xfce4-volumed, I'll upload 0.1.12 as it only contains the bugfix for your issue, thanks for filing the bug report
<gohai> thanks a lot!
<charlie-tca> dangers of starting too early with Natty; got used to the resize grips and grey squares
<gohai> filled as 754656
<charlie-tca> bug 754656
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 754656 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) "greyish rectangle visible below scrollbar in various applications (gedit, etc)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754656
<gohai> another question:
<gohai> i did a safe-upgrade one or two days ago
<gohai> and now the settings menu is filled with loads of configuration dialogs
<gohai> most of which are also accessible through Settings Manager
<gohai> was this an intentional?
<mr_pouit> gohai: what's the version of garcon on your system?
<mr_pouit> (dpkg -l libgarcon-1-0)
<gohai> 0.1.6-0ubuntu1
<mr_pouit> fixed in 0.1.6-0ubuntu2
<gohai> awesome
<gohai> mr_pouit: that worked, looks clean now again
<charlie-tca> gohai: are you running natty?
<gohai> jep
<charlie-tca> Normally, when running the development release, it is best to update every day. There are many changes happening fast.
<charlie-tca> I watch #ubuntu+1, and if people are not complaining a lot about not being able to restart or login, I update.
<gohai> :)
<charlie-tca> Most of the problems reported do not actually happen to Xubuntu+1, for which I am grateful.
<gohai> like it a lot so far
<gohai> I haven't used xfce at all before
<gohai> time for one more question:
<gohai> I see issues with a lot of panels having their settings not saved when I exit
<gohai> for example I am currently unable to set a keyboard shortcut to change the keyboard layout
<mr_pouit> xfce4-xkb-plugin is particularly buggy
<gohai> is this a very known bug or should I report for the instances where it matters to me?
<gohai> but desperately needed here ;)
<mr_pouit> if you can describe a reliable way to reproduce the crash, or if you have a gdb trace, or if apport is telling you xkb-plugin crashed, then you can file a bug on launchpad indeed
<gohai> bug 754656
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 754656 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) "greyish rectangle visible below scrollbar in various applications (gedit, etc)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754656
<gohai> "how is this a gtk issue?"
<charlie-tca> Because it was a change to gtk that added the resize grips to all windows, and this is a left-over from that change.
<gohai> can i reply this explanation from you?
<mr_pouit> I replied already
<gohai> thanks
<gohai> sorry for raising that fuss ;(
<mr_pouit> no, it's seb128, it's usual ;-)
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> should we refer seb128 to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelOops#Submitting%20a%20Kernel%20Oops%20Bug%20Report ?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/704105
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 704105 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) "Resize grip always appears in bottom right of GTK+2.0 windows" [Low,Confirmed]
<scott-work> hello, i based the latest plymouth-theme-ubuntustudio on xubuntu's plymouth theme and am now having trouble with it
<scott-work> this isn't to imply that this is xubuntu's fault in any way :)   it's mine for being ignorant
<scott-work> but i was wondering if anyone might have some suggestions on how to fix it
<scott-work> basically it used to work but has now quit - it now longer displays the graphics or animation, but rather only shows a baby blue screen
<scott-work> any help (even pointing me towards another person) would be extremely helpful
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: added the gtk resize grip bug to the report for reference
<mr_pouit> scott-work: tbh, I made the current theme in a hurry, probably by copying another one ;d
<mr_pouit> so you should ask someone who actually knows something about plymouth, and that's not me, sorry :/
<scott-work> lol, thanks mr_pouit  :)
<scott-work> i did the ubuntustudio one in the same manner
<ochosi> mr_pouit: btw, i noticed that resize-grip bug pretty early on, but since it seemed so hard to communicate with the team doing those changes i decided to focus on other things...
<charlie-tca> The biggest thing I see with it is the grey squares/rectangles are a bit of an eyesore. 
<ochosi> yeah, it's not critical, but it's annoying, i agree
<mr_pouit> ochosi: same, and I even forgot it ;>
<charlie-tca> they don't really affect the function at all, and I think the one in gedit is intentional. I believe Ubuntu already modified gedit to have that rectangle, since without it, the resize grip covers the arrow
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-09
<pleia2> knome: there was a reply on the xubuntu.org ticket!
<pleia2> but I'm in Puerto Rico all week on vacation, so feel free to take a lead with it this week if you get access
 * pleia2 won't be online much
<knome> pleia2, i noticed that message, but he said the following week, so that might be next friday
<knome> pleia2, anyway, have a nice holiday!
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<gohai> mr_pouit: cheers!
<gohai> btw: anyone knows if one supposed to change xfce4-mixer "active-card" setting somewhere through the ui? (cause i had resport through the settings editor)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-02
<astraljava> Anyone know where to reach Pjotr? I'd need some further info re: abiword translations.
<micahg> astraljava: see PM
<Pjotr> Hello, I have a question regarding xfce4-power-manager.
<Pjotr> A couple of days ago, upstream has released xfce4-power-manager 1.0.11.
<Pjotr> Will it make it into Xubuntu Precise? That would be very desirable, because it contains important translation updates.
<Pjotr> mr_pouit: maybe you can answer this?
<knome> Pjotr, very unlikely
<knome> Pjotr, unless it's *only* translations
<mr_pouit> imho, too risky
<mr_pouit> too many changes that were lying in git for too long
<mr_pouit> (so I've no idea of the current state)
<Pjotr> hmmm.... when I check the changelog, the translation updates seem to be the main part of the changes:
<Pjotr> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/commit/?id=d6ef3927cead0016731dcfe3427adbfa434dfb30
<mr_pouit> mmh, I checked the commits, and it might be fine
<mr_pouit> I'll look into it this evening
<mr_pouit> (no big commit included as I feared, so it's ok i think)
<Pjotr> thanks in advance! :-)
<astraljava> mr_pouit: I asked about the translations on -motu, and was advised to write to the Debian maintainer, which I did. If you want to be included in the mail thread, please let me know.
<pleia2> nudged friend in IS, he had me delete all my wiki subscriptions and then readd them, seems to have worked to get me subbed to .* pages :)
<pleia2> finicky wiki
<Unit193> Heh, quite. I hate it.
<Unit193> I've found it doesn't allow you to change pages by editing the URL, it'll dump you on the page you're already on.
<Unit193> So if you're at wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Guide, and take off Testing/Guide, it'll dump you back to Testing/Guide anyway.
<GridCube> O_o
<TheMouldyMarsBar> What?
<pleia2> Unit193: sounds like there is something wrong with your browser
<Unit193> pleia2: Nope, happens every time on different computers, and used firebug to figure out what was going on. (Or, it'a a FF bug that doesn't hit any other sites and is in all of 'em)
<pleia2> maybe I don't understand what you're doing then
<pleia2> I can edit the address in the addressbar and go to pages fine
<Unit193> I can change from one section to another if I know it, just if I try to remove part of it then fails (Taking IRC/Bots and going to IRC/ubottu works, but trying to go up to IRC/ or / doesn't)
<Unit193> Does it in FF, and just checked in "Opera"
<Unit193> Anywho, wrong channel to get anything done with it.
<astraljava> Unit193: Yes, but let me just add that in Chrome, there's no such problem.
<Unit193> astraljava: Continued in -ot, seems it sometimes works as it should, and explained better(?)
<astraljava> On other news, Xorg seems to have gone mad lately. Both in oneiric, and now in precise, it consistently consumes some ~15% or CPU, causing the fan blow almost all the time.
<astraljava> This on my laptop, with Intel on-board graphics. Sadly, I won't have time to (help) debug, as I'm returning it to the employer in a matter of days.
<TheMouldyMarsBar>  /quit
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-03
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> astraljava: what window-borders thingy were you referring to?
<Unit193> Howdy, ochosi.
<Unit193> Resize was small (I think)
<ochosi> hey Unit193
<ochosi> hmm, you mean the window-borders are too thin?
<ochosi> this is a recurring request, we should seriously publish that article on window-resizing in xubuntu...
<ochosi> knome: ^
<knome> ochosi, true. or just add that to the Top 10 FAQ
<knome> (the new one)
<ochosi> mhm
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/countdown/
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/countdown/?alt=w
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> btw, this is exactly the kind of replacement (the circle) for the progressbar that i'd wish to have for plymouth
<knome> we're pushing one more change to fight the caching, then i'll publish a blog article
<knome> heh, yeah...
<ochosi> yup, i like it
<knome> mm-hmm, i know this is what you wanted ;)
<knome> but that's done in inkscape
<knome> and batch-exporting
<ochosi> yeah, i have no clue how animations work in plymouth
<knome> per the work item tracking, we have only one item to do before precise is "ready" :]
<knome> but of course, that's not the complete truth
<ochosi> yup, saw that :)
<ochosi> well, there are always bugs
<knome> we should do better tracking of important bugs in the Q cycle
<ochosi> dunno, i think i did that for most of my artwork-bugs
<knome> eg just add an "general improvements" blueprint and link all bugs we're going to fix to that
<ochosi> at least towards the end of the cycle i slowly figured that out
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> yeah, good idea
<knome> yeah, i've tried to attach any bugs to blueprints that really belong to any
<ochosi> also another one for release-critical bugs maybe
<knome> but eg. the muting thing was just a bugfix
<knome> yeah, not a bad idea
<knome> that would also help us know what we are working on
<knome> and
<knome> write team reports (which we really didn't do this cycle)
<knome> and
<knome> write release notes
<ochosi> yeah, well all kinds of reports (==paperwork) consume a lot of time
<Unit193> knome: Didn't you also change the branding on LP?
<ochosi> so that makes for less time to get things done
<ochosi> Unit193: did you ever get around to checking out bluebird-gtk3 in precise?
<knome> Unit193, it's WIP
<Unit193> ochosi: Did a little, and just hit it in Oneiric.
<Unit193> Anything to check?
<ochosi> not sure it'll work very well in oneiric
<ochosi> yeah, everything :)
<knome> ochosi, sure, but since we have all the tools for that (and really, what is easier than link a bug to a blueprint in LP?) we should use them
<knome> we can even mark milestones for work items ...
<knome> eg. beta-1
<ochosi> well we can try to do that for q
<ochosi> but it'd have to start very strictly for everyone
<knome> or whatever that was, it was not that easy :P
<knome> imo it's not a problem to do it well in the beginning
<knome> that's where most of the stuff is done now too
<knome> i mean, yeah, we added more than 25 new work items while working on precise, but not all at the same time
<ochosi> i think i never did any of that, not even in the beginning of the P cycle :)
<ochosi> (i'm talking about team-reports)
<knome> if we get the bulk of 50 fixed, it's no problem to manually set those for the rest 25
<knome> even if it was me doing that
<knome> the thing that people (mostly micahg and mrpouit) must take care is to link the bugs they are working on to one blueprint
<knome> and while that is an extra task, it also helps others to help them, in testing or so
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> btw, i have one bug that i'm stuck with
<ochosi> don't really know how to precede (unless installing unity etc is an option)
<ochosi> it's Bug #956147
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956147 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "thunderbird message indicator icons" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956147
<knome> huh
<ochosi> highly annoying, can't see this fixed anywhere and i'm starting to suspect it's a bug of the gtk2 version of the messaging indicator
<ochosi> (unity is using the gtk3 version obviously)
<ochosi> btw, look at them nice blurry icons before the icon-theme upgrade: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04032012-093503am.php
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc is a very sad team :(
<ochosi> yes, in many respects
<ochosi> after the icon-theme upgrade: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04032012-093817am.php
<Unit193> Aye, much better. (But easier to tell in the day)
<knome> :)
<ochosi> there are a few apps with hardcoded icons
<ochosi> unfortunately there is nothing we can do about them
<knome> cody-somerville, hey? i've sent you two emails, could you please have a look at them? thanks.
<ochosi> (in fact you can see their problems already in oneiric)
<knome> what are those apps? does it make sense to try to get the changes upstream?
<ochosi> xfce4-dict,synaptic,catfish
<ochosi> all three are candidates for deprecation imo
<knome> btw, i've created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Goals/Q
<ochosi> (at least the latter two should be replaced by better â yet to find â alternatives)
<micahg> ochosi: getting changes in synaptic should be fairly easy (mvo is the maintainer)
<ochosi> also thunar has 48px folder-icons hardcoded
<ochosi> micahg: hm ok, in that case a patch for not using the hardcoded appicon would be needed
<ochosi> micahg: also, i suspect you can't help me with the indicator-messages bug linked to above..? (it's not really a thunderbird issue i suspect, rather a messaging-menu problem)
<knome> micahg, what do you think of "tracking" bugs related to xubuntu in blueprints for Q? sounds sensible/doable?
<micahg> ochosi: I don't see those icons on my Xubuntu system with thunderbird closed or on my Ubuntu system with it open
<micahg> knome: not until there's work to be done
<knome> micahg, heh, of course not NOW, but during the Q cycle :)
<ochosi> micahg: yes, when tb is closed there are no icons. with "ubuntu system" i suspect you mean the gtk3 version of the messaging-menu?
<micahg> knome: tracking bugs are nice to track stuff that affects multiple people or needs notification to package watchers
<micahg> s/people/packages/
<knome> mrpouit, ^ 
<micahg> ochosi: I suppose it is
<knome> micahg, i mean tracking bugs in the sense that we will know by the end of the cycle what we've done
<micahg> ochosi: you filed the bug saying that the icons are missing when open
<ochosi> micahg: yes, only when thunderbird is open (the bug was filed by someone else, i just commented)
<micahg> ochosi: I just said the icons aren't there when it's closed as well 
<micahg> so seemingly these actions don't have icons
<ochosi> micahg: yes, but when it's closed there is no "broken image/icon" icon
<micahg> ah, I see now :)
<ochosi> ok :)
<micahg> yeah, I'd suggest mirroring the GTK3 behaviour
<ochosi> hmm, so a bug against the indicator-messages-gtk2 version is needed then?
<micahg> same source :)
<micahg> idk where the bugs is
<micahg> it might be theme based, no idea
<ochosi> problem is: apart from us, no-one uses the gtk2 version of the indicators anymore
<micahg> knome: that's what blueprints are for ;)
<micahg> and the WI tracker
<knome> micahg, exactly. so do you think it's sensible to ask you to do that in Q? ;)
<knome> micahg, not to say you did badly this cycle, but...
<micahg> ochosi: mythbuntu, Ubuntu Studio
<micahg> knome: do what?
<knome> micahg, heh, track the bugs in blueprints ;)
<micahg> knome: I took no WI for Xubuntu aside from the TB icon issue which chrisccoulson ended up fixing
<knome> micahg, this cycle we have at least a few bugs that aren't tracked in blueprints
<knome> micahg, ok :)
<micahg> knome: that's not the point of blueprints either
<ochosi> micahg: ok, so filing a bugreport against indicator-messages it is then
<knome> micahg, as i said, i'm not talking about "all bugs"
<micahg> knome: idk if "work done" as # of bugs matters, you can link blueprints to bugs if they're relevant, I wouldn't go beyond that in connecting the two thuogh
<micahg> getting the burndown chart to the end by the end of the release is what you're aiming for
<knome> micahg, well, what about release-critical bugs?
<knome> micahg, i mean, is there some place to track those then?
<micahg> knome: yeah, ask skaet
<knome> eh ;)
<knome> skaet, ^ 
<knome> micahg, mrpouit: read the mail on xubuntu-devel about xubuntu-desktop dependencies being *installed* if user removed them before?
<knome> is this technically possible, since he shouldn't have xubuntu-desktop...
<mrpouit> it's not deps
<mrpouit> probably recommends
<ochosi> mrpouit: what did you say was the name of the clipman panel-icon again?
<mrpouit> if you want to control things, you have to disable autoinstallation of recommended packages
<mrpouit> ochosi: no idea right now :P
<ochosi> ok :)
<knome> mrpouit, well yeah, but is it possible that the upgrade *added* the abiword package?
<knome> mrpouit, i mean, considering he had removed that before, and considering he shouldn't have xubuntu-desktop package either
<knome> mrpouit, or are the repositories going bollocks, tiny packages pulling in big stuff (think: alacarte pulls in unity and compiz)
<astraljava> mrpouit: What are your thoughts on the abiword translations? I'm about to respond to the Debian maintainer that the dates requested for svn snapshot would be around 31st of March - 1st of April, cause that's when Pjotr pestered the devs, and apparently got his wishes fulfilled. But it feels like too short a time for testing a new snapshot, don't you think? Should I just create a debdiff out of po/
<astraljava> directory?
<mrpouit> unless it's bugfix only, a new snapshot at this point isn't really nice
<astraljava> mrpouit: Yes, that's why the Debian maintainer wanted the date, to make sure what changes would there be.
<astraljava> ochosi: If you have such an article somewhere, please post it. Way too thin borders have been an issue for two releases now. I think.
<ochosi> astraljava: well, the resize-grip was dropped from the gtk2-patches by ubuntu
<ochosi> astraljava: the other thing is alt+right-click+drag
<astraljava> ochosi: Yeah, knome kindly let me know about it the other day. I just have to keep it mind, still am not used to it. :)
<ochosi> astraljava: warning disclaimer: as soon as you are it's hard to go back!
<astraljava> Most likely.
<knome> astraljava, what's the status for the apartment?
<astraljava> Just contacting agents, asking around. One friend is going to look at a duplex next to Iso Omena.
<astraljava> ...today.
<knome> aha :)
<knome> so nothing from the one you found?
<astraljava> No, not yet. It doesn't have a sauna, so I'm exploring my options with the ones that do. Surprisingly, there are a few.
<astraljava> And what about yours?
<astraljava> mrpouit: Another topic (while I'm still waiting to hear your opinion about the debdiffing po/ directory); is there any point in adding near replica patches for the mixer change for Studio? Would you know a better way to do it? We're wanting the same change that you did, ie. choose pavucontrol over xfce4-mixer.
<mrpouit> astraljava: yeah, a diff of the po/ dir is okay (although you may want to check that they haven't removed strings from the pot file)
<mrpouit> astraljava: mmh, for the mixer, which patches in particular?
<astraljava> mrpouit: Ok, I think I'm on it, as I'm expecting the Debian maintainer to turn down that new snapshots.
<astraljava> mrpouit: indicator-sound, and xfce4-volumed.
<astraljava> mrpouit: There are patches for xubuntu on both of them, but the changes for US would be so small, it feels like a waste. But I do understand that these are different projects, though. :)
<mrpouit> astraljava: yeah, that was only a dirty hack to be sure to affect only Xubuntu sessions ;< (if you've a better way, i'll take it).
<mrpouit> you could add similar patches for ubuntu-studio, it won't break anything
<astraljava> mrpouit: Yeah, I really don't have better methods to do that, so I will duplicate them for Studio at this point, as I don't have much time to play with it. Thanks a lot! You've been a great help, once again. :D
<astraljava> mrpouit: Oh, one more thing. Would you like to be CC'ed on the mail correspondence with the Debian maintainer for abiword?
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: i added an icon for clipman to the icon-theme, so your bug should be fixed
<ochosi> (committed, but not uploaded yet)
<leo-unglaub> oh, thanks...i can check tonight when i am at home
<ochosi> btw, did you notice the gtk-paste icon also missing somewhere in applications? (e.g. editors)
<ochosi> in toolbars or anywhere else
<ochosi> because clipman should fall back to using that
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: ^
<leo-unglaub> ah, okay
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: maybe there is a little bit more broken, because in the "nachichtenanzeige" in the bar also some icons are mission
<ochosi> which ones?
<ochosi> you mean indicator-messages? (the envelope-icon)
<leo-unglaub> i think the thunderbird new messages and addressbook icons
<ochosi> yes, there is already a bugreport for that
<leo-unglaub> but i am not sure, it's just on my home computer
<leo-unglaub> ah, okay
<ochosi> not sure i'll be able to fix that somehow, it's most likely a bug in indicator-messages
<ochosi> but i agree, it sucks :(
<leo-unglaub> sorry i am not so much up to date in the launchpad tracker
<leo-unglaub> i hate launchpad
<ochosi> yeah, it's sometimes slow and not always easy to use
<skaet> knome,  release critical bugs are tracked by milestoning them against 12.04 and assigning them to the precise series. 
<skaet> generally only high/critical bugs are considered release critical.   Only use critical for true blockers to the release (ie. we can't work around them and don't have any alternatives)
<skaet> micahg, ^ :)
<micahg> skaet: I'm aware, knome just wanted to know where they're tracked
<skaet> thanks micahg,  fair enough.  :)
<micahg> astraljava: we don't even have the latest abiword snapshot ATM and as mrpouit said, it's not nice to include a new one now, I'd suggest cherry picking the translations
 * micahg wishes they would do an upstream release already
<astraljava> micahg: Yep, I think that was the outcome of our discussion today. I'm preparing a debdiff now.
<astraljava> grr... figures, I can't connect to the domain now.
<astraljava> mrpouit: Any idea why I can't build xfce4-volumed in precise pbuilder? It fails to satisfy build-depends, libxfconf-0-dev is uninstallable, yet I can install it just fine on host.
<astraljava> mrpouit: Sorry, I was just missing universe component.
<ochosi> astraljava: i'm wondering when we should start bugging upstream messaging menu guys again about that bug...
<astraljava> ochosi: Who would they be?
<ochosi> astraljava: well i don't know anymore because i lost my backlog (server went down)
<ochosi> i think tedg and kenvandine
<ochosi> but they bugged someone else
<astraljava> Oh, yeah, them.
<ochosi> and i can't remember who
<astraljava> Hang on, I'll check.
<ochosi> ty
<astraljava> larsu
<ochosi> k
<knome> bug 972402
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 972402 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "FFe: include xfce4-datetime-plugin in Xubuntu's default install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/972402
<Unit193> Right, I have to check to see if there is already a feature request on that, but otherwise I love that plugin and already use it rather than Orage.
<knome> ochosi, i've subscribed the release teeam to that bug + told them to look at it
<ochosi> knome: thanks
<knome> np
<ochosi> btw, since i lost all my backlog i can't remember what the 3 things were i asked you (one was the bugreport)
<knome> is there something that needs verifying on precise?
<knome> or, testing
<ochosi> with respect to the datetime plugin?
<ochosi> i don't think so
<ochosi> i mean i tested it in precise
<knome> to anything, i'm on wife's laptop
<ochosi> it has an ugly border (UIFe no.2)
<ochosi> oh yes, the xfpm export please
<ochosi> and the 64px window-manager icon :)
<knome> uh
<ochosi> btw, it's a bit annoying that the video-mime icon isn't centered
<ochosi> but i guess there isn't much one can do about that
<knome> the 16px?
<ochosi> yup
<knome> no, unless you introduce some asymmetry
<ochosi> yeah, which would probably also suck
<knome> yeah, i thought about that
<ochosi> i just tried it, doesn't look very nice either...
<knome> yeah, i *tried* it too :P
<ochosi> off to watch a movie
<ochosi> bbl or tomorrow
<ochosi> hf everyone
<knome> ok, see you and hf
<micahg> mrpouit: was there a reason you didn't just sync ristretto?
<astraljava> ochosi: Ahh... cripes, bug #883485 still occurs on my machine, even the attempted fix.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883485 in xfce4-volumed "Pulse Audio don't get unmuted when XF86AudioMute is used" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883485
<mrpouit> micahg: no really good reason (Corsac didn't write '*bugfix* release' though ;-])
<knome> mrpouit, 23:01  infinity: Like I said, I just acked the FFe one, just do your thing and close them all as you upload.
<knome> mrpouit, re: bug 972402
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 972402 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "FFe: include xfce4-datetime-plugin in Xubuntu's default install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/972402
<mrpouit> eh, Pjotr was right, so many new/fixed translations in xfpm 1.0.11
<mrpouit> (new translations: ar, bg, hr, is, ko, lt, nn, pl, te, zh_TW)
<mrpouit> wow ;>
<knome> :)=
<knome> mrpouit, what did you say about being late in the cycle and not getting an except?
<knome> :P
<mrpouit> yeah, but the exception was granted by an Xfce user
<mrpouit> that's cheating :P
<knome> :P
<knome> i didn't specifically ask HIM to do it, so it's not
<ScottL> pleia2, would you have a few minutes to explain some web site stuff to me?
<knome> pleia2, ^ apache configuration, he means
<ScottL> (well take it into another channel if she has time)
<knome> unless it takes hours, i don't care if it's here either
<knome> (and there's no reason why it should)
<pleia2> ScottL: usually yes, but not today :( (just got home from a 2 hour appointment outside of work, now have tons of work to do before another appointment in 4 hours
<ScottL> no problem, it's certainly not critical....just irritating :P
<mrpouit> so, I released lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.1.5 (the only change is the reinclusion of all translations from oneiric)
<ochosi> knome: thanks for pushing datetime through
<knome> np
<ochosi> astraljava: that sucks :(
<ochosi> astraljava: have you tried to debug it?
<ochosi> knome: what about my other requests? :}
<knome> errh, i'll look at them tomorrow, when i'm on desktop
<ochosi> hmm, ok
<ochosi> you'll have to push them yourself then, i'm not sure i'll be around tomorrow
<ochosi> (which isn't a real problem though)
<astraljava> ochosi: No, not yet. But it doesn't work on neither my laptop (plain Xubuntu) nor my desktop (Studio install).
<knome> ochosi, push to where?
<knome> :P
<ochosi> knome: to elementary-xfce@github?
<astraljava> ...where the sun doesn't shine...
<ochosi> knome: i guess you know in which folders to put the icons
<knome> ochosi, actually i'm so unfocused now so i don't
<ochosi> astraljava: hmm, that's kinda worrying, i was hoping this was fixed once and for all. was it a fresh install of xubuntu/studio or did you incrementally upgrade?
<knome> if we don't need to get it in tomorrow, we can look at it later too
<ochosi> knome: xfpm go into elementary-xfce/panel/22, window-manager goes into elementary-xfce/apps/64
<ochosi> well, that's for mrpouit to decide
<ochosi> (why did you drop that underline, mrpouit?)
<knome> meh :P
<knome> astraljava, yeah, i imagined so.
<ochosi> ty
<knome> astraljava, however, i'm not going to use similar procedures to yours... :P
<knome> mr_pouit, so, you're just lurking?
<mr_pouit> :3
<ochosi> the old trickster!
<mr_pouit> (currently adding xfce4-datetime-plugin to the seeds)
<ochosi> nice
<knome> hehe
<knome> mr_pouit, do you need the new icons tomorrow?
<ochosi> knome: btw, i think i'll add ooffice/libreoffice icons as well, they look rather badly scaled
<mr_pouit> I didn't upload xubuntu-artwork tonight, so yeah
<ochosi> (even though they're not part of the default install)
<knome> bleh
<knome> i'll look at it tomorrow then
<ochosi> mr_pouit: you didn't forget about thunar?
<mr_pouit> no, I didn't, I keep it for tomorrow
<ochosi> ok, ty
<knome> ochosi, please do
<knome> what's with the icon changes btw?
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i just wanted to say it now, because i probably won't be able to remind you tomorrow ;)
<ochosi> knome: ?
<knome> are they considered bugfixes, or do we have a FFe ?
<mr_pouit> blurry -> not blurry, so I consider them as bugfixes yeah
<knome> k
<ochosi> yes, let's just not talk about that too loudly :)
<knome> let's hope the release team members do that too ;)
<ochosi> hush, release-team members!
<knome> stgraber is soon going to be one!!
<mr_pouit> (I'm speaking about the tabwin icons, heh)
<ochosi> that can only be good for us
<knome> so we will have a contact person to harrass
<mr_pouit> (anything else probably needs a ffe ;>)
<knome> exactly
<knome> not that things have been too bad lately anyway
<ochosi> oh noes, libreoffice uses completely stupid app-icons :(
<ochosi> seemingly some "new document" icons
<knome> haha
<ochosi> knome: i wouldn't laugh if i were you, cause that means that i'll probably not be able to fix it
<knome> ;)
<knome> as i said, i'm tired of the P cycle
<ochosi> i think libreoffice uses the (included) humanity-icon for new-document, at least i can't find it anywhere
 * ochosi wonders what happens when that icon-theme gets uninstalled
<micahg> knome: pesky precision perniciously prodding?
<knome> micahg, ;)
<ochosi> what's wrong with libreoffice?
<ochosi> (part of) the answer is: an icon theme for it contains more than 3000 icons
<knome> what's not wrong with libreoffice?
<ochosi> and icons have descriptive names as: "sc26049.png"
<knome> hehe
<ochosi> and "sc26050.png"
<knome> i'm sure they are *planning* to write documentation for that
<ochosi> (the first one is "=", the second one is "x")
<ochosi> you mean because the have a "document foundation"?
<ochosi> this is really ridiculous
<ochosi> not even any symlinks, no gtk-stock icons
<ochosi> even though there are icons like "sc_editdoc"
<ochosi> (which is exactly the edit icon)
<ochosi> lx03248.png - lx03251.png are the icons we'd need to add hires ones for
<ochosi> :)
<knome> ...
<knome> i'm off to bed. i'll read the backlog tomorrow, and try to work on the requested icon stuff
<knome> see you all
<ochosi> ok, see you!
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i guess we're both a bit too tired now to finish off the appicons
<ochosi> there aren't too many left anyway, i'd say for the tabwin (something that's not even used by everyone and all the time) the status quo is ok. maybe we can backport fixes later if people complain (icons are not exactly hard to test or very critical in terms of producing terrible crashes)
<ochosi> ok fixed a few more, but that's it for now
<ochosi> ok, obviously that was a lie, i fixed two more things
<scott-upstairs> pleia2, is there someone you might suggestion i can talk to about the apache config
<scott-upstairs> ?
<pleia2> scott-upstairs: I have a few minutes now if you need :)
<scott-upstairs> oh, good
<scott-upstairs> i have a VPS with a single IP
<scott-upstairs> i want to host two different "websites" from there
<scott-upstairs> i have registered two names
<scott-upstairs> 1. fossmusicproject.org
<scott-upstairs> 2. massivedynamicnetcast.org
<scott-upstairs> i have having trouble getting it all to play nice
<pleia2> ah, virtualhosts can be tricky
<scott-upstairs> i would like fossmusicproject.org to ideally go to /var/www/index.hmtl
<scott-upstairs> and massivedynamicnetcast.org to go to /var/www/mdn/index.html
<scott-upstairs> right now, i've done something horribly wrong i fear and massivedynamicnetcast.org keeps giving me an error from goodl through
<scott-upstairs> s/goodl/google
<pleia2> do you have separate files in /etc/apache2/sites-available/ for them?
<scott-upstairs> at this point i don't even have wordpress installed, just made specific index.html to make sure things are getting directed correctly
<scott-upstairs> pleia2, i did and can enable them again
<pleia2> yeah, that's the best way to do it
<pleia2> can you paste an example of one of them somewhere?
<pleia2> (paste.ubuntu.com is fine)
<scott-upstairs> is there a way to select all in vi
<scott-upstairs> or nano
<pleia2> not that will easily copy to the cli clipboard
<pleia2> err gui
<Unit193> scott-upstairs: You should be able to cat $file |pastebinit if you have that installed.
<scott-upstairs> Unit193, i cat'd the file in terminal and copied :)  thanks
<Unit193> That'll work as well.
<scott-upstairs> http://paste.ubuntu.com/913831/
<scott-upstairs> that is for MDN
<pleia2> scott-upstairs: ok, pastebin your /etc/apache2/ports.conf too, please
<scott-upstairs> # If you just change the port or add more ports here, you will likely also
<scott-upstairs> # have to change the VirtualHost statement in
<scott-upstairs> # /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/000-default
<scott-upstairs> # This is also true if you have upgraded from before 2.2.9-3 (i.e. from
<scott-upstairs> # Debian etch). See /usr/share/doc/apache2.2-common/NEWS.Debian.gz and
<scott-upstairs> # README.Debian.gz
<scott-upstairs> NameVirtualHost *:80
<scott-upstairs> Listen 80
<scott-upstairs> <IfModule mod_ssl.c>
<scott-upstairs>     # If you add NameVirtualHost *:443 here, you will also have to change
<scott-upstairs>     # the VirtualHost statement in /etc/apache2/sites-available/default-ssl
<scott-upstairs>     # to <VirtualHost *:443>
<scott-upstairs>     # Server Name Indication for SSL named virtual hosts is currently not
<scott-upstairs>     # supported by MSIE on Windows XP.
<scott-upstairs>     Listen 443
<scott-upstairs> </IfModule>
<scott-upstairs> <IfModule mod_gnutls.c>
<scott-upstairs>     Listen 443
<pleia2> ok, in both files you can change the part where you say <VirtualHost massivedynamicnetcast.org:80> to <VirtualHost *:80>
<scott-upstairs> </IfModule>
<scott-upstairs> crap...sorry,thought i grabbed link
<scott-upstairs> http://paste.ubuntu.com/913833/
<scott-upstairs> i had that earlier and was trying this, i will change it back
<pleia2> is there any reason you want one in /var/www/ and one in /var/www/mdn? rather than one in /var/www/fmp or something? you'll need to do some tricky things to get the former to work
<scott-upstairs> knome was suggesting this as well
<pleia2> since you'll need to exclude everything in /mdn from your fmp site
<scott-upstairs> no particluar reason, i thought it would easier actually :P
<pleia2> I highly suggest separating the two then
<scott-upstairs> i shall do that
<scott-upstairs> is there something goofy that i might have done to get massivedynamicnetcast.org to not work?
<scott-upstairs> google asked if i wanted to "Redirect the naked domain (http://massivedynamicnetcast.org) to http://www.massivedynamicnetcast.org"
<scott-upstairs> i said yes
<scott-upstairs> i have the dns set for host name: @   to ip: 64.76.234.193 as well
<scott-upstairs> but now i get a google error
<scott-upstairs> not a "this is your isp and we can't find the site you are looking for"
<pleia2> the error leads me to believe /var/www/mdn doesn't exist
<pleia2> how is google involved with this hosting?
<scott-upstairs> pleia2, http://paste.ubuntu.com/913843/
<scott-upstairs> i purchased the domain through google and google apps
<pleia2> ah
<scott-upstairs> i like being able to have the email attached to it
<pleia2> massivedynamicnetcast.org DNS is pointing to lots of google IPs, none of which are 64.76.234.193
<pleia2> checked by doing: host www.massivedynamicnetcast.org
<scott-upstairs> oooh, IP should be: 94.76.234.193
<scott-upstairs> sorry
<pleia2> ok, it looks like in addition to 94.76.234.193 you have 4 other IPs in there too
<scott-upstairs> https://www.google.com/a/cpanel/massivedynamicnetcast.org/SetupARecordInstructions
<scott-upstairs> that tells about the four others, which were there already when i added my ip
 * scott-upstairs is presuming you can access that page
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> I put this in my /etc/hosts file: 94.76.234.193   massivedynamicnetcast.org
<pleia2> and it works fine
<pleia2> otherwise it's trying to go to all these other A records, which are pointing at google and not set up
<scott-upstairs> okay, should i get rid of them in my dns then?
<pleia2> yeah
<scott-upstairs> roger that
<pleia2> so the only A record you want is the 94. one
<scott-upstairs> and i can handle the alias, i.e. www.foo.org, with the mdn and fpm files, correct?
<scott-upstairs> i figured it was a problem with google since their error message kept coming up
<pleia2> yeah
<scott-upstairs> super cool, pleia2 i am putting you officially in my book of people who rock
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> thanks
<scott-upstairs> hehe, thank YOU
<Unit193> massivedynamicnetcast.org. 1800INA94.76.234.193
<Unit193> scott-upstairs: Nice IP!
<Unit193> (And do I get in the idiot book??)
<scott-upstairs> what is the world is that IP?
<Unit193> Tab didn't transfer.
<Unit193> Last 3 numbers.
<scott-upstairs> i'm now getting both host names to their respective index.html's :)  thanks again pleia2 !
<pleia2> scott-upstairs: yay! 
<pleia2> you're welcome :)
<scott-upstairs> now i get to move back to installing wordpress again :P
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-04
<knome> are we forcing people to install xubuntu-desktop on upgrade?
<knome> i'm asking because i've removed abiword from my installation, but it seems to want to install it on upgrade
<astraljava1> knome: Could you repeat the question? It seems my connection to the freenode servers was down for a bit, so I've lost some of the backlog.
<knome> 13:21  knome: are we forcing people to install xubuntu-desktop on upgrade?
<knome> astraljava, did you get it this time? :P
<astraljava> knome: I did, yeah. I dunno, really. These new release-upgrade thingies are beyond me, to be honest. Back in the day, when you used just apt-get dist-upgrade, it wouldn't add it if you didn't have it at the time.
<knome> yeah.
<knome> is there a way to force dist-upgrade to go to a devel release?
<astraljava> knome: `sudo do-release-upgrade -d`
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> thanks
<knome> let's see it that proposes me x-d/abiword
<knome> *if
<knome> no, that pulls them in too
<astraljava> Yeah.
<knome> :(
<knome> i wonder if this is because some rdepends or stuff
<knome> mr_pouit, ^^
<astraljava> ochosi: The other standard volume-related keypresses don't work either. I'll debug further today, at some point.
<astraljava> Hmm... bug #973262 seems weird.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 973262 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Two accessories icons in Xubuntu 12.04 Main Menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/973262
<astraljava> I don't even understand how gnome-menus gets pulled in.
<astraljava> Via alacarte?
<davmor2> knome: the upgrade is done via the x-desktop file if you remove that file and try to upgrade it fails aiui
<mr_pouit> no no, it should work fine even if it's not installed
<mr_pouit> astraljava: InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 11.10 "Oneiric Ocelot" - Release i386 (20111012)
<mr_pouit> astraljava: we used one or two categories for gnome-menus in 11.10
<mr_pouit> s/for/of/
<mr_pouit> anyway, the new menu doesn't, so nothing to fix on our end
<astraljava> mr_pouit: Yeah, I figuired
<astraljava> grr
<astraljava> mr_pouit: Yeah, I figured as much, and just set affects to the correct package.
<mr_pouit> yep, I saw that, thanks
<mr_pouit> knome:   ignore old unsatisfied important dependency on abiword:amd64
<mr_pouit> knome: on 10.04, when I remove abiword, it doesn't come back during the dist-upgrade
<ochosi> mr_pouit: could it be that the icon-scaling we experience with the tabwin also affects the systray?
<ochosi> mr_pouit: oddly enough the same icons are scaled down when in the systray, but look ok when inside indicator-plugin :(
<ochosi> (which is why i'm supplying both svg and png for the clipman plugin)
<mr_pouit> no idea
<ochosi> ok, then i gotta ask andrezj
<astraljava> ochosi: Have you noticed the window borders going out of visible desktop when maximised? Could be just on my system, I did a distribution upgrade, not a clean install. But granted, shouldn't happen then either.
<ochosi> astraljava: not sure i know what you mean, mind to provide a screenshot?
<astraljava> http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/borders_out_of_visibility.png
<astraljava> I was a bit slow, sorry. :D
<ochosi> that's normal
<ochosi> that's how xfwm4 maximizes windows
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> on the left
<astraljava> Well... not nice. See how text becomes not fully visible on the left side.
<astraljava> Yeah.
<ochosi> what is that weird dark-grey line?
<astraljava> I don't know, really.
<ochosi> oh
<astraljava> Hmm... could it be a problem with terminal, screen or mutt, then?
<astraljava> Well actually, weechat works the same way as mutt.
<ochosi> no, see for yourself: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04042012-065850pm.php
<astraljava> And so does centerim.
<ochosi> (this is mutt in xfce-term in 12.04, all updates installed()
<astraljava> Hrhm.
<ochosi> but actually the terminal colors are suboptimal for mutt
<ochosi> knome: ^
<astraljava> I'll look again on my desktop, which is a Studio clean install.
<ochosi> astraljava: actually what's with that white grey border between mutt and the terminal window
<ochosi> it looks a bit like you cut it out with the gimp and moved it to the left
<astraljava> ochosi: Hah. Well rest assured, I did no such thing. :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> but you see this 1px border on top between mutt and term-menubar
<ochosi> and also below and on the right
<ochosi> rather disturbing
<astraljava> Yeah, well, I have no answer to that.
<ochosi> me neither :(
<astraljava> ochosi: http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/unmaximised.png
<ochosi> astraljava: do you have a panel on the left?
<astraljava> They're still there, but not that big anymore.
<astraljava> ochosi: Yeah, a hidden one.
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> in your face
<ochosi> that's the panel cutting the maximized window ;)
<astraljava> Oh, ok.
<astraljava> Then that's not good, either.
<astraljava> A window shouldn't go under the panel "hint".
<ochosi> you have to set its opacity to 0 on leave and 100 on enter
<ochosi> but for that you need to enable compositing
<astraljava> I do not subscribe to this line of thinking.
<ochosi> you don't have to
<astraljava> :)
<ochosi> i only tell you what you can do to solve your specific problem
<ochosi> other than that > bugzilla ;)
<astraljava> Yea.
<ochosi> please don't forget to ask for intellihide
<astraljava> ...which is?
<ochosi> panel is visible unless it gets covered by a window (then it hides)
<ochosi> most docks do that
<astraljava> Ok, so that's not implemented yet?
<baizon> yes intellihide is a nice feature :)
<ochosi> some also call it "window dodge"
<ochosi> astraljava: have you congratulated and thanked me yet for following up on Bug #956147 and getting it fixed today?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956147 in Messaging Menu "thunderbird message indicator icons" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956147
<astraljava> Alright, I'll see if I have interest for that. I only now did this because of small-ish resolution on this laptop, probably won't be a problem much longer.
<astraljava> ochosi: I don't know. I was just notified today that I can time-travel, so it's possible that I have.
<astraljava> ochosi: It isn't obvious from the comment thread, how did you fix it?
<ochosi> astraljava: well i bugged the right people (kenvandine and larsu) in #ubuntu-devel
<ochosi> the fix will be uploaded in the next update to indicator-messages
<astraljava> Oh right, that's the branch under review. Nice!
<ochosi> yup, i wasn't so optimistic about this in the beginning
<ochosi> but it turned out they were really interested to fix the bug
<baizon> guys any news on the new kernel bug?
<baizon> lightdm isnt starting at boot anymore 
<baizon> with 3.2.0-21 kernel
<ochosi> in 12.04?
<baizon> yes
<ochosi> i have that kernel version (3.2.0.21.23 to be exact) and things are ok here
<baizon> hmm
<baizon> i have 3.2.0-21.34
<astraljava> Yeah me too.
<baizon> just getting the tty login screen
<astraljava> Well, I won't reboot yet, then.
<astraljava> It was reported and talked about on -testing, and AFAIUI escalated to the right people.
<ochosi> baizon: yeah, i have that version of the headers as well
<ochosi> astraljava: AFAIUI?
<baizon> so will be fixed then? :)
<astraljava> As Far As I Understood It.
<baizon> ok
<ochosi> (sorry i know it's not chattiquette to ask for those acronyms, but this one i never read before)
<astraljava> baizon: Is that implied? :D
<astraljava> Well yeah, if Sebastian Bacher got interested about it, I'm fairly sure it will. :)
<astraljava> Oh, and a newer kernel revision is in the queue already, just hasn't landed yet.
<astraljava> But I'm not sure whether it'll fix that bug or not, it feels too soon for that.
<knome> ochosi, feel free to propose improvements to the terminal color scheme
<knome> mr_pouit, thanks for replying to bug 964483
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 964483 in exo (Ubuntu) "Terminal help is inaccessible" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/964483
<knome> mr_pouit, i suppose removing the # could fix this...
<astraljava> Oh cr*p, sorry I left that hanging. I remember having trouble in getting debugging info out, I can continue now.
<astraljava> err... wait.
<astraljava> It just worked.
<astraljava> And LP being way slow tonight, I can't get to the report to see the actual error. It was a pop-up telling the file it tries to show, right?
<knome> yup
<astraljava> Well are you running precise? Can you test? Cause it works for me now in Studio.
<astraljava> ...and in Xubuntu as well.
<knome> astraljava, Failed to execute default Web Browser.  Text ended before matching quote was found for #. (The text was '/usr/bin/firefox filr:///usr/share/doc/xfce4-terminal/C/index.html"').
<knome> -"
<knome> +#
<knome> so, ...index#').
<knome> errh
<astraljava> wait, don't tell me this is a FF issue? I'm using chrome.
<knome> ...index.html#').
<knome> yes, in precise
<knome> maybe.
<astraljava> Haha! Yeah.
<astraljava> I wonder what is the correct work flow to take here. I'll probably head on to #ubuntu-mozilla first, to see if anyone there runs Xfce.
<astraljava> It was a deadend.
<knome> -mozillateam
<astraljava> Ahh... gotcha, thanks.
<knome> np..
<knome> you'll probably end up talking with micahg though :)
<Unit193> "file:///usr/share/doc/xfce4-terminal/C/index.html#" worked, but I'm not in the correct system to try it.
<Unit193> knome: You were right.
<knome> about? :)
<pleia2> all the things
<knome> well of course..
<pleia2> I am kind of bored of waiting for a response from canonical trademarks
<knome> heh
<pleia2> we got ok from Xfce, right?
<knome> nope.
<pleia2> oh
<Unit193> knome: Of who he would talk to. :D
<knome> pending too, but i suppose it's okay
<knome> but yeah, i could try to get hold of them.
<knome> Unit193, yup :)
<knome> astraljava, i wonder if the source has "" quotes around the url?
<baizon> ok new kernel has arrived
<baizon> installing it now :)
<astraljava> knome: It does not. However, when firefox is set as default, I see "Error: No running window found" in the debug log.
<astraljava> Is LP down-ish for others as well? It seems 10% of my requests are served right now.
<knome> seems to load a bit slow, but works
<astraljava> Damn, has been _really_ acting up for several hours now on my end.
<astraljava> Works at one time, fails on most. I give up for tonight, I have better things to do than wait on its mercy. :)
<knome> :)
<martinphone> is it true that in 12.04 the kernel is 3.2 and above?
<knome> yes
<martinphone> can you explain why the sudden change from current 3.0.0.18 to 3.2?
<martinphone> where is 3.1 I mean
<knome> we use the same kernels than ubuntu
<martinphone> ok
<martinphone> can you then explain ubuntu's sudden change from current 3.0.0.18 to 3.2?
<knome> i don't know about kernel versioning, though some projects use .odd-numbers for not-so-stable releases
<martinphone> i see
<knome> you'd be better off asking from #ubuntu-kernel
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-05
<baizon> well done, new kernel (3.2.0-22) works perfect again :)
<knome> ochosi, pleia2?
<ochosi> knome: ?
<ochosi> pleia2, knome: i wrote a draft for an article (window resizing) today, review/feedback appreciated
<pleia2> ochosi: I'd had some screenshots to liven it up (maybe one for Method 3 in the keyboard shortcuts page)
<pleia2> ochosi: I had to read the second paragraph in Method 1 a few times to understand it
<pleia2> maybe it could be simplified some
<pleia2> "While the resize-grip has been removed from Gtk2 in Ubuntu"
<pleia2> I think you mean Gtk3? or..?
<pleia2> (under Method 4)
<pleia2> otherwise good, I didn't even know about #2!
<micahg> pleia2: the resize grip distro patch was removed from both I think
<pleia2> thanks :)
<Unit193> astraljava: You have networking when starting Xubuntu live?
<Unit193> Has anyone run tests last 3 days?
<ZardoZ> Hi, I recently migrated to Xubuntu 12.04 and overall it's already working quite well.
<ZardoZ> However: logging into an account (via the lightdm) takes a very long time. 
<ZardoZ> Does anyone have a suggestion what to check.
<ZardoZ> Same issue with starting up synaptic via the menu. Starting synaptic via a terminal works fine.
<Unit193> This is the devel channel, you may want to ask in a support channel? I haven't hit that personally.
<ZardoZ> OK, will try
<Unit193> #ubuntu+1
<ZardoZ>  Hi, I recently migrated to Xubuntu 12.04 and overall it's already working quite well. However: logging into an account (via the lightdm) takes a very long time. Does anyone have a suggestion what to check?
<ZardoZ> Sorry, wrong copy paste...
<Unit193> Heh, was wondering. :P
<Unit193> syslog and dmesg while you wait.
<ZardoZ> afaik dmesg only gives bootinfo. This is -of course- after the boot process.
<Unit193> Nope, gives more.
<ZardoZ> OK. Will check next time
<Unit193> ochosi: Right, finally remembered to test it, "Window Manager" and "Window Manager Tweaks" in the settings manager have older looking icons, but that's the icon theme and unrelated. You know about abiword.
<leo-unglaub> hey, does someone here know a good tool to create gui mockups?
<leo-unglaub> damn
<leo-unglaub> brb
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-06
<astraljava> Unit193: I will check later today, might need some sleep before that.
<Unit193> Could be just me.
<knome> micahg, as there any uploads pending?
<knome> mr_pouit, ^
<ochosi> micahg,pleia2: nope, in Gtk3 the resize-grip can be activated globally in the gtk-theme
<ochosi> micahg,pleia2: from gtk2 it was dropped, so it's only in apps that set it themselves
<ochosi> pleia2: thanks for reading through! yes, screenshots would be good for pretty much every method. i just put this draft together yesterday because i suddenly felt motivated and wanted to get things going :)
<knome> ochosi, btw, you can't add screenshots yourself to the blog..
<ochosi> knome: oh, is that a limitation of the contributor-mode?
<knome> yeah, that's the unfortunate side-effect :/
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> ok
<knome> i could just approve you to the website team though
<ochosi> well, we can test this for a while like this
<knome> k
<ochosi> but since my posts will mostly be artwork, they will most likely contain screenshots or pics
<knome> mm-hmm
<ochosi> but for now we can leave it as is
<knome> ok, works for me
<ochosi> then at least i'm forced to let you review :)
<knome> i'm going to be off from about 13utc today till 10utc sunday
<ochosi> btw, i guess i have to rewrite parts, if pleia2 had a hard time understanding it, then i probably wrote gibberish
<ochosi> mkay, yeah, i'll also be away over the weekend
<knome> hihi
<knome> i can review now if you want
<ochosi> although only from tomorrow till sunday evening
<ochosi> yeah, please
<knome> do you mind if i just edit it?
<ochosi> nope
<knome> ok
<ochosi> as long as you don't change the meaning of things too much
<knome> hehe, won't
<ochosi> knome: could you also check whether the keyboard-shortcut is right?
<ochosi> (i mean alt+f11)
<ochosi> i think i changed it on my system
<knome> i can, after i've gone through the article :)
<ochosi> ah, it's alt+f8
<ochosi> at least on my gf's laptop and i think i didn't change it here
<ochosi> knome: please verify that on your system and then change that as well in the article ^
<knome> hehe
<knome> well i'm on an updated system
<knome> i probably should check this from the spec ;)
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> brb
<ochosi> or: bbiab
<knome> ok ok
<knome> ;)
<knome> ochosi, ehm, we deleted the resize-window shortcut!
<knome> but i'm in favor of the mouse-methods anyway
<knome> saved new version @ xubuntu.org
<micahg> knome: not planning any for xubuntu until next week
<knome> micahg, ok :)
<micahg> ochosi: there were resize distro patches that were dropped, idk if that was for GTK2 or 3
<ochosi> knome: why did we delete that shortcut?
<ochosi> knome: ok, updated the post according to that
<knome> dunno, maybe because we thought it was redundant
<knome> and because people can always readd it
<ochosi> hmm :/
<ochosi> yeah, i put that in the article
<ochosi> it's fine as well
<knome> and there's the window menu
<ochosi> good point
<ochosi> yet another method
<knome> which has the resize-link
<ochosi> mind adding a paragraph about that?
<knome> i don't know how to open that :D
<knome> i think i have somewhat messed up shortcuts
<ochosi> you can set a shortcut for opening the window-menu
<ochosi> but, you can also use the menu-button (downward-pointing arrow in the left-top-corner of the window)
<ochosi> or simply right-click the window-titlebar
<knome> that's right :P
<knome> i was looking for the menu icon, but i don't have that
<ochosi> you must've removed it, it should be there by default
<mr_pouit> o hai
<mr_pouit> no upload pending, although a new one for xubuntu-artwork might be needed, there's a missing icon in simple-scan according to a bug report
<mr_pouit> knome: ^
<ochosi> mr_pouit: where's that bugreport?
<knome> mr_pouit, in the app menu? i have that icon
<knome> also, in the interface, i don't see missing icons
<ochosi> ah i see the br now
<knome> br ?
<ochosi> bugreport :)
<knome> heh
<ochosi> i'll quickly test this in my oneiric install
 * knome checked in precise
<ochosi> oh, ok
<ochosi> then i'll spare myself the reboot for now
<knome> heh
<knome> yeah, i upgraded to precise not a long time ago
<mr_pouit> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/974549
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974549 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Simple Scan application menu missing icon" [Undecided,New]
<knome> nope, shows a stamp-icon for me
<ochosi> ok, i'll check it...
<knome> 20120228
<knome> that's the installtion media
<knome> (his)
<ochosi> hmm, i can confirm the bug :(
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04062012-105046am.php
<mr_pouit> if you don't want people to send photos by mail, it's a proper icon though
<mr_pouit> (:
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> btw, i just realized there might be a tiny glitch in greybird-gtk3 :/
<ochosi> the radio-buttons in menuitems have dark fg
<mr_pouit> screenshots before/after?
<ochosi> look at "photo": http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04062012-105305am.php
<ochosi> before/after what?
<mr_pouit> it's still posible to upload if it's critical
<mr_pouit> before/after your fix :P
<ochosi> oh .)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> one sec, i think i can really fix that straight away
<mr_pouit> but otherwise it'll go to precise-proposed
<ochosi> it's hopefully trivial
<ochosi> it just seems that simplescan is the only gtk3 app i have with radios
<ochosi> checks look ok
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> odd, they look ok in gedit
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04062012-105901am.php
<ochosi> time for a quick reboot
<ochosi> brb
<ochosi> re
<ochosi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~simple-scan-team/simple-scan/trunk/view/head:/data/simple-scan.ui#L124
<ochosi> use_stock > False :(
<ochosi> ok, fixed it
<ochosi> i'll push the fix to git in a minute
<ochosi> very weird
<ochosi> it seems ambiance works around that radio-button glitch by using bright submenus
<ochosi> imo that looks terrible: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04062012-111533am.php
<knome> huh
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> i think we're better off with what we have atm
<ochosi> wth, when changing the theme (with simplescan running) from Greybird to greybird (the second is a symlink to the first) the radiobuttons are ok
<knome> haha
<ochosi> and they're also ok when changing back to Greybird
<ochosi> i have no clue what is not working there
<ochosi> probably a bug in gtk3
<ochosi> mr_pouit: btw, if stupid simplescan would use the stock "document-send" icon, we would have no problem whatsoever (that one is contained in the gnome-icon-theme), but they chose to use "mail-send" instead
<knome> ochosi, how do i have the correct icon then?
<ochosi> i'm suspecting that the gnome-icon theme was slimmed down
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> but i'm using precise...
<ochosi> can you check what's inside of /usr/share/icons/gnome/24x24/actions ?
<knome> let me upgrade all packages so they are surely the latest
<ochosi> no, wait
<ochosi> tell me what you have there now
<knome> oh
<knome> mail-send.png exists
<ochosi> just to check whether anything else critical got removed
<ochosi> gah
<knome> oh well
<ochosi> so they dropped it
<ochosi> bastards
<knome> i'm already upgrading :P
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04062012-112552am.php
<ochosi> this is the content of the directory for me
<knome> there's 355 items for me
<ochosi> do you have gnome-icon-theme-full installed?
<ochosi> (because we dropped that one)
<knome> let me check
<knome> i have, for some reason
<knome> when is that dropped?
<ochosi> ok, we don't install that by default anymore
<knome> like, yesterday?
<knome> oh right, i'm upgrading
<knome> gigi
<ochosi> that is the whole point of having elementary-xfce as a fork
<knome> *hihi
<knome> :)
<knome> yup..
<ochosi> anyway, it's possible that other icons are missing if people decide to install something that doesn't follow any standards but is contained in the gnome-icon-theme-full, but i think we shouldn't care too much about that
<ochosi> brb
<knome> mm
<ochosi> knome: mind to ask sean davis to join the testing team? (the guy reported really a lot of bugs lately, all of them meaningful)
<ochosi> ok, i'm off for now, bbal (be back after lunch)
<knome> mr_pouit, bug 875991
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 875991 in lxdm (Ubuntu) "Not able to start a xsession with a space in the name" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/875991
<knome> mr_pouit, i know the bug is in lxdm, but..
<knome> mr_pouit, i suppose it's not without problems if we rename though?
<mr_pouit> it's ugly
<knome> lxdm you mean?
<knome> or non-space session name?
<mr_pouit> non-space ;-)
<knome> mm-hmm
<mr_pouit> we could replace "Xfce Session" by "Xfce" though
<knome> yeah
<knome> but that doesn't fix the xubuntu session, and definitely not lxdm
<mr_pouit> but still, it's a string change, so a bit annoying at this point
<knome> let's not do it.
<knome> lxdm must be fixed, seriously
<mr_pouit> lubuntu uses lightdm, so I guess it's low priority, even for them ;-)
<knome> i don't think it's eating users from xubuntu/xfce, more likely it's going to eat users from lxdm
<knome> yeah, there was just some talk about that in twitter
<knome> the more i think about it, the more i think we shouldn't do anything, since otherwise lxdm won't ever fix this, rather, just keep on asking people to use non-space session names
<knome> it's probably annoying for those who want to use lxdm and xubuntu/xfce, but they can fix the files on their own + apply pressure to fix lxdm
<knome> okay, i'm off! see you again on sunday :)
<ochosi> awwh, just missed you then
<ochosi> have a nice weekend knome 
<martinphone> when 12.04 is out, will there be the possibility in file manager to ctrl+something to add tabs instead of having to co ctrl+n to open a new window?
<ochosi> martinphone: no, thunar doesn't support tabs by design, there have been lengthy discussions about that on mailinglists, forums and irc
<martinphone> ok
<astraljava> gah, talk about last minute awakenings. :)
<ochosi> astraljava: you woke up last minute for what?
<astraljava> release meeting mail. :)
<ochosi> oh, right, haven't read that
<ochosi> (not subscribed i guess)
<astraljava> ochosi: Yeah it's sent to ubuntu-release@l.u.c
<astraljava> ...although there doesn't appear to be a meeting, so I worried for nothing.
<astraljava> These default apps for media files are puzzling me, see f.e. bug #973654.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 973654 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Audio CDs default to Exaile but gmusicbrowser is installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/973654
<astraljava> Studio has the same problem, no exaile and no parole either.
<mr_pouit> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/thunar-volman.xml
<mr_pouit> this bug affects only 11.10
<astraljava> mr_pouit: Oh ok. We just have to fix our own. Thanks for pointing to the correct place!
<mr_pouit> ah indeed, ubuntustudio-default-settings still has: <property name="command" type="string" value="exaile"/>
<mr_pouit> replace it with: <property name="command" type="string" value="parole --device=%d"/>
<mr_pouit> and you're good to go
<astraljava> mr_pouit: We don't ship parole by default, so we're gonna use something else for it, but yeah, that's the spot right there. We also need to tweak a little more as the current situation with nautilus/Thunar just isn't as it should be.
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: with the last update i got the new clipman icon...looks grat
<leo-unglaub> thanks !
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-07
<xubuntu072> hello guys
<baizon> hi hi
<xubuntu072> I have a question. Xubuntu version 12.04 LTS will be include xfce 4.10?
<baizon> no
<baizon> xubuntu 12.10 will have xfce 4.10
<baizon> but i think there will be a ppa with xfce 4.10 for 12.04
<xubuntu072> baizon. Thank you. you are very helpful.
<baizon> your welcome
<xubuntu072> i love xubuntu. and i hope that the new version of xfce will be more stable and still userfriendly. =)
<astraljava> ...unlike the new versions of GNOME and KDE? *smirk*
<baizon> xubuntu072: http://xfce.org/download/changelogs/4.10pre1/
<baizon> there you can read all the changes
<xubuntu072> astraljava yea? u are right
<xubuntu072> <baizon> thx for link.
<astraljava> xubuntu072: I'm just kidding, though. It just sounded like that. :)
<Unit193> Don't mind astraljava, he hasn't taken his meds today.
<xubuntu072> baizon> the new version have lots of changes and looks good ^ ^
<baizon> yes indeed
<baizon> window tilling and xfce appfinder is very nice
<xubuntu072> gtg. peace to everyone and bb
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-08
 * astraljava repaired a box and installs Mythbuntu on it, and notices it's got scrollbars in the slideshow too.
<GridCube> can it be fixed alacarte to have no recommends on 11.10?
<GridCube> or 11.04
<astraljava> Hmm... I have serious trouble trying to decode such a cryptic message. What do you mean? alacarte is the menu editor. What recommends does it have?
<astraljava> Oh... I see.
<astraljava> Well I doubt it, it's not geared towards other DEs but GNOME, AFAIUI.
<GridCube> but we use it
<GridCube> and we ship it on 12.04
<astraljava> Yes. But only on precise. So why would you want to drop recommends on older releases?
<GridCube> because there is no other menu edition tool for xfce than it
<astraljava> Yeah. Well, you can roll a custom .deb for it. :)
<GridCube> :P don't know what that is
<astraljava> Nah, just kidding. But you should just install it with the --no-install-recommends option.
<GridCube> yes, I see, well, just asking
<astraljava> Yeah the thing is, there's no way to make such a change in past releases. Obviously it's not going to swim into the images either, so it'll have to be installed manually anyway. Hence that option for apt-get.
<astraljava> What is there in recommends in the past releases?
<GridCube> http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/alacarte
<GridCube> it recommends gnome-panel
<astraljava> But no ' | exo-utils' like in precise?
<GridCube> i wouldnt know how to know that
<astraljava> Recommends: gnome-panel | exo-utils
<astraljava> That's there in the output of `apt-cache show alacarte'.
<GridCube> http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/alacarte
<GridCube> ah i see, it says "or exo-utils"
<GridCube> no it says nothing like that
<astraljava> Yeah ok. Well then, it'd have to be installed with the --no-install-recommends with apt-get, I don't know whether synaptic supports such a setting (probably does).
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-01
<GridCube> i think it would be awesome if its default, it is a pretty useful tool
 * GridCube opinions
<dlumberg> My theme keeps disappearing on 13.04 is there a work around?
<dlumberg> I can't think of how to phrase it right now, but it's not the window theme
<dlumberg> Settings Manager > Appearance doesn't change when I change the selected theme...
<dlumberg> it seems to happen after a crash, I think the last crash was due to RAM because I don't have swap...
 * dlumberg is hungry... chases a cricket... then sits down and waits for an answer (trying not to reboot for the 4th time to get GTK? theme back)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-02
<lderan> knome: hey, sorry i haven't gotten the meetingology fixes to you yet, been on holiday this past week :P
<lderan> have founds the bits needing the changes so shouldn't be much bother
<knome> lderan, no problem. how was the holiday?
<lderan> it mainly consisted of snow & rain, the wonderful land of England.
<knome> mmh
<lderan> :P
<knome> i took a few days off too, back today in the home office working
<knome> i hate when i have a holiday and stuff piles up
<lderan> aye that is a pain
<knome> especially after longer time off, since then it's hard to get the wheels rolling anyway...
<lderan> indeed it is
<knome> anyway, i got all the stuff scheduled for today done
<knome> bbl
<lderan> awesome!
<dlumberg> anyone have a link to the bug tracker?
<dlumberg> when booting with a second monitor attached the "appearance" settings don't work
<dlumberg> where should I report that?
<pleia2> dlumberg: you'll want to use the "ubuntu-bug" command line tool, but I'm not sure which package just yet
<pleia2> (hopefully someone else knows :))
<ochosi> dlumberg: what do you mean "isn't working anymore"?
<dlumberg> it boots with the default what used to be gtk theme (not the window manager)
<dlumberg> and trying to change the Settings Manager > Appearance settings does nothing
<Unit193> xfce4-settings is the package, in case it comes to that.
<dlumberg> ok
<ochosi> dlumberg: if you run xfce4-appearance-settings from terminal and then try to change your theme, do you get any error messages?
<dlumberg> I can't reboot right now to test, but I will later
<dlumberg> does it just log into syslog?
<ochosi> i'd check ~/.xsession-errors
<dlumberg> these are the only 2 that I see that might be related, the rest are nm-applet, xfce4-indicator-plugin and thunar-volman
<dlumberg> [2399:2399:0402/123912:ERROR:omnibox_view_gtk.cc(431)] Not implemented reached in virtual void OmniboxViewGtk::ApplyCaretVisibility()
<dlumberg> NVIDIA: could not open the device file /dev/nvidia0 (Operation not permitted).
<dlumberg> no errors from the command line
<dlumberg> on an unrelated note I think I need to add a swap file, it seems that 16GB ram isn't enough to compile android w/o running out and crashing
<dlumberg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1163477
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1163477 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "[NVIDIA] Appearence settings broken booting with dual monitor attached" [Undecided,New]
<dlumberg> and now to reboot again to get my theme back
<ochosi> skellat: rrring
<ochosi> (=ping)
<skellat> ochosi: What's up?
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-03
<knome> he's sleeping:)
<knome> me too ->
<lderan> zzz
<bluesabre> lazy people
<bluesabre> wake up
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi
<bluesabre> :)
 * lderan is defeated by the supybot this evening, tomorrow it shall fear my wrath
<dlumberg> anyone around?
<skellat> dlumberg: What's up?
<dlumberg> where are the screensaver settings in 13.04?
<skellat> Hmm
<dlumberg> they should be in settings manager...
<dlumberg> that's where they've been since I started using x in 11.x...
<skellat> Which screensaver package do you have installed?
<dlumberg> whatever comes default with the 13.04 beta
<dlumberg> clean install
<skellat> Okay
<dlumberg> hhrrrrmmm wait a second...
<dlumberg> it's actually ubuntu studio
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> That'll be something I'm not running then
<dlumberg> does it show up in xubuntu?
<dlumberg> it's running, I know that... I usually go in and kill the daemon from settings manager
<zequence> Ubuntu Studio is not perfectly in sync with Xubuntu on some of those things
<skellat> I'll need to download an image to check.  I'm waiting on the Beta 2 respins to finish by Thursday for release.
<dlumberg> I just asked in #ubuntustudio if anyone else is missing it
<dlumberg> I'll report back if anyone responds
<dlumberg> my bad, I did a dpkg get-selections set-selections migrate when I came to 13.04 so I added gnome-screensaver f*d it up
<ochosi> skellat: hmyah, was asleep already, i'm back now though
<knome> bluesabre, lazy people? it was 3am...
<Unit193> knome: Could always gpg encrypt the message, but clearly couldn't send them to you, and while pleia2 is CC, she nomnom'd you. :P
<knome> Unit193, hmm?
<skellat> Unit193: Are you talking about handling election of the new Xubuntu Project Leader in the manner by which we handle elections within Ubuntu Ohio?
<Unit193> Would work.
<knome> tell us, nothing is set in stone yet
<skellat> knome: The basic gist is that since we assume within Ubuntu Ohio that everybody has signed the CoC as a precondition for election participation, you have to have a gpg key to do that.  We have an election administrator receive ballots via encrypted e-mail that are authenticated against the person's declared key on Launchpad and the administrator publishes anonymized totals.
<knome> mhm
<skellat> A particular address and key are created to specifically send to so that things can be archived
<knome> that sounds fair to me
<skellat> It would be a matter of the administrator creating a new key just for the election, publishing *that* public key, and then everybody sending e-mails to the address attached to that public key
<knome> the only thing that's suboptimal in this is that the whole voting goes through one person
<skellat> They then publish the message archive and the keys so that anybody can review it later
<skellat> That would be both the secret and public keys
<skellat> Paul Tagliamonte set up the methodology for us in Ohio way back when
<skellat> For the most part, it actually mirrors a wee bit how I administer civil elections when I'm wearing my Precinct Election Officer hat
<knome> i see
<skellat> The difference there is that the precinct team is bi-partisan with two Democrats and two Republicans administering the poll on election day but that's the only major difference
<skellat> Also, this gives a completely traceable vote trail in case of disputes.  When I actually do something like work during the presidential election we have no way of matching a ballot paper back to who marked it.  We can only check off the electoral roll that you actually voted.  
<skellat> So, say lyz & I have the keys and serve as election administrators we could receive ballots individually, make our own totals, and then check to see if our numbers match.
<knome> pleia2 said she's not around when we're voting
<skellat> Well, that was a hypothetical
<knome> sure.
<knome> i'm not against it, but i feel like i'm disqualified to work much more on the voting
<skellat> Understandable
<knome> it has to be team-driven, and i can approve it if you set it up
<skellat> Alrighty
<skellat> Let me think about how to set it up easily and I'll ping you later
<knome> sure. plese do on the channel or the mailing list. no need to do private messages :)
<skellat> Okay
<knome> another viable option is a LP bug.
<skellat> How so?
<knome> don't know against what, since you can't really file bugs against teams :P
<knome> or blueprint.
<knome> whatever you see fit, but please do it in public
<skellat> Definitely
<knome> thanks
<skellat> First step on my end will be to generate a new key
<skellat> I'll drop something on the mailing list later tonight probably
<Noskcaj> if we need a gpg key to vote, or nominate. i give up
<knome> Noskcaj, please tell me what the problem is?
<knome> Noskcaj, do you think that's not fair for all nominees?
<Noskcaj> knome, i've never been able to get a GPG key made, and i can't be the only one. 
<knome> skellat, regardless if we do the voting with keys or not, can you get Noskcaj set one up?
<skellat> Noskcaj: What goes wrong when you try?  That's one of the things I know I'd have to cover in any instructions I'd even try to put together.
<Noskcaj> i have to go to school now, i'll try and get a key later
<skellat> knome: Definitely.  This is a relatively easy thing to walk through from the commandline.
<knome> thanks
<pleia2> he needs one to sign the CoC anyway
<skellat> Yep
<skellat> We can clear that away two
<knome> well,
<skellat> s/two/too
<pleia2> and yeah, I'll be in mexico on my honeymoon :)
<knome> nothing says he needs to to be a nominee, or to be a member of -users
<knome> he only needs to do that if he gets elected and would become a member of the -team
<pleia2> I have a script that collects public email addresses from a launchpad team so then you can plug them in to condorcet
<pleia2> anyone who doesn't have a public address just emails the person who set it up to request to be added
<pleia2> fwiw
<pleia2> it's what we use for CC elections
<knome> theoretically speaking, how do you verify that person is actually a member of the LP team?
<pleia2> we trust them
<pleia2> turns out ballot stuffing has, you know, never happened
<skellat> pleia2: Is there a way to determine how many members of -users don't have the CoC signed?  If so, we could take care of two things at once with the Ohio-style route.
<knome> :)
<knome> skellat, i would imagine most people in the team are not interested in voting
<pleia2> skellat: would have to look at launchpadlib api, I'm not sure if that's one of the criteria
<skellat> Okay
<pleia2> I doubt most people have signed though, the nature of the team is "users" not contributors, and users are much less inclined
<skellat> I'd otherwise be using signing the CoC as an example of using your new key in any directions written
<knome> i agree with pleia2 that the -devel list is a good medium to send out voting information
<knome> anybody who's interested in development and/or leaders should be following that list
<knome> otoh, if that's not considered fair, we might as well do a LP poll.
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> Okay, how do we set up a LP poll?
<knome> just create one.
<knome> not sure if creating a poll automatically means everybody in the team is mailed
<skellat> I don't know but I also am not empowered to create a poll for xubuntu-users on LP
<knome> apparently polls can't start less than 12 hours after they are created
<skellat> Hmm
<Unit193> skellat: I haven't read all the backlog yet, but that's not quite right.
<skellat> Unit193: What did I miss?
<Unit193> (Or, that's not how it happened last time)  Encryption was an option, but you'd just send it to the council email address, encrypted against the email of the council members.
<skellat> Unit193: Last time I looked at the council's archive, only 2 or 3 votes didn't encrypt.  All the rest did.
<Unit193> Last one, I was one and you may have been the other that encrypted. :P  (We could be looking at different ones, though.)
<skellat> Unit193: Yeah, and we've got the new one cropping up where we've got 2 out of 3 seats to fill on Ohio's council
<skellat> And only one nominee
<Unit193> I said "not it" already.
<skellat> Yeah
<skellat> And I'm hearing the clarion call to haul myself to the kitchen
 * skellat wanders off
<Unit193> skellat: http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-us-ohio-council@lists.launchpad.net/mail2.html
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-04
<Noskcaj> can someone test the xubuntu raring beta 2 iso's, they release tomorrow and need testing
<Noskcaj> skellat, about bug 761094, shouldn't you make a new one if it's a different thing that happens?
<ubottu> bug 761094 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) ""Download updates while installing" checkbox does nothing" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/761094
<skellat> Noskcaj: Just got up this morning.  Just filed new bug, attached to report, and fixed said thingie.
<knome> pleia2, any way you could handle b2 release notes/announcement?
<knome>     Documentation is updated to 13.04
<knome>     New version of Catfish (0.6.1) is included and fixes a lot of bugs
<knome>     More updates for the Greybird theme
<knome> anything else we want to mention in the b2 release notes?
<knome> / announcement
<knome> i've create a release announcement in xubuntu.org, anybody in the team can go fix and extend
<ochosi> knome: updates for greybird? that might be misleading because of the obvious visual regressions in the login-dialog and some other gtk3 apps (unless v1.1.1 has been uploaded)
<knome> ochosi, feel free to edit that point then. we did do some fixes artwork-wise for b2, right?
<skellat> None that got uploaded in time as far as I am aware
<knome> aha
<ochosi> yeah, from b1 to b2 i don't think there's any difference
<ochosi> knome: ^
<knome> ochosi, fortunately you have x.org access ;)
<skellat> And I just did an apt-get source on shimmer-themes to see about doing quick fixes then a repack
<skellat> It wouldn't make it into Beta 2 but hopefully into Final
<knome> skellat, you should cooperate with ochosi on getting the themes fixed "upstream"
<skellat> Is upstream on Launchpad or elsewhere?
<knome> skellat, even direct upload access to the repositories could be fine.
<knome> code is at https://github.com/shimmerproject/
<skellat> Ah
<knome> but the upstream is ochosi too...
<knome> so... no reason not to fix it there
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> I've been told it is lunch time so I'll let things roll with the stuff on Github.  Once that's set we can roll from there.
<knome> great
 * pleia2 just woke up
<knome> good morning sunshine!
 * pleia2 yawns and goes for coffee
<knome> :)
<pleia2> looks like we have some articles to write :(
<knome> yup.
<pleia2> my fiance is out of town this weekend, so I have some time
<pleia2> some errands to run, and sunday I have a class, but otherwise
<knome> mhm
<knome> not sure how much time i will have, but on my late nights probably some hours
<knome> (at least)
<pleia2> ochosi: are you able to write an article or two?
<knome> two? huhu
<knome> :)
<pleia2> I'll have to dig through the piles of articles I wrote for FCM 
<knome> i'm wondering if there's something on our blogs we could possibly reuse
<knome> maybe this? http://open.knome.fi/2012/12/12/community-to-developer-communication/
<pleia2> I dunno
<knome> me neither
<knome> it could possibly be part of some community/contribution article
<pleia2> window resizing?
<knome> that? http://open.knome.fi/2012/10/08/open-source-benefits-for-students/
<knome> dunno how it fits.
<pleia2> not so much
<knome> or possibly http://open.knome.fi/2012/05/30/why-do-i-contribute-to-open-source/
<knome> that's not too long though
<knome> and overlaps with one existing article a bit
<knome> i think i'm writing too boring articles for end users :P
<knome> anyway, i think i'm off for now
<knome> pleia2, can you take care of publishing the blog article on b2?
<pleia2> probably
<knome> pleia2, thanks.
<knome> i need to go to bed soon, so i won't be around to do that in any case
<knome> the article is pretty much ready though
<pleia2> ok :)
<knome> oookay, i'm out
<knome> see you later! :)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-05
<pleia2> found an author for "Experiences, challenges and the reasons I settled on Xubuntu" ..and he wrote the whole thing today and sent it to me
<pleia2> sometimes, people are awesome :)
<Unit193> Wow.
<pleia2> it's in the etherpad now for review + editing
 * pleia2 jinxself
<pleia2> 20:33:08 < slangasek> sorry to have to do this to y'all on the flavors, who obviously have done your part, but it looks like we need to defer announcing until we can get that link fixed - which needs to wait for London to wake up
<pleia2> so I'm probably going to be asleep ;)
<pleia2> one of the europeans will need to handle pressing "publish" on the blog post, knome 
<pleia2> the notes are added to the wiki though, so we're otherwise all set
<Unit193> ...Or if I'm up?
<pleia2> Unit193: did we give you publish powers?
<Unit193> Ah, I'd guess not.
<pleia2> (I am asking, I'm not sure)
<Unit193> Nope.
<Unit193> (I can't.)
<pleia2> ok
 * pleia2 airport run
<Unit193> Adios.
<knome> pleia2, i'll do it
<pleia2> tweeted and g+ed n stuff
<knome> pleia2, mmh
<jacklk> Why in the Xubuntu file manager is the "Downloads" folder called "Download?" (12.10) Can this be changed in the next version?
<jacklk> I know it's small but still, I am OCD.
<mikodo> Good job guys. I love Xubuntu!
<jacklk> mikodo: Who doesn't?
<jacklk> best Linux distro
<lderan> agreed
<jacklk> just Ubuntu without the bloatware
<pjotr> Hello, I have a question about Xubuntu 13.04 beta 2
<pjotr> In the main menu are two new items: Xubuntu Website and Contribute to Xubuntu
<holstein> !13.04 | pjotr 
<ubottu> pjotr: Ubuntu 13.04 (Raring Ringtail) will be the 18th release of Ubuntu, Discussion and support until final release in #ubuntu+1
<holstein> !contribute
<ubottu> To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
<pjotr> both are untranslated into Dutch. Which package still needs translation?
<holstein> pjotr: good question.. knome ?
<pjotr> I'm member of the Dutch Ubuntu translators team, so I can help if I know which package this is.
<Unit193> xubuntu-default-settings, iirc?
<pjotr> xubuntu-default-settings is not in the list with translatable templates: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+lang/nl?batch=193
<Unit193> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings what about that?
<Unit193> (I know where the code is, but have no idea what you are supposed to look at, the package or code, to translate.)
<pjotr> unit193: I've translated those four strings rightaway. So the problem is now fixed. Thanks!  :-)
<Unit193> Sure.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-06
<pleia2> knome: I'll take some time today to review our article drafts
<pleia2> we need someone to write an article about handling themes
<pleia2> ^^ anyone? please? :)
<pleia2> people get so confused about them (what is appearance? what is style?)
<pleia2> we're going to need a fair number of screenshots for these articles
<pleia2> ok, taking a break from writing/reviewing...
<pleia2> Noskcaj: are all your edits in the etherpad now?
<pleia2> it was due yesterday, so I am hoping I wasn't wasting my time in the edits I made in the etherpad...
<Noskcaj> it looks good
<pleia2> ok, thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-07
<knome> good day.
<knome> is the pad lagging again?
<Guest25113> so, running the beta2 amd64 install and it hangs indefinitely at the preparing to install xubuntu prompt where it asks you if you want to dl updates while installing/install 3rd party software
<pleia2> Guest25113: thanks, can you submit a bug report?
<pleia2> (they may need some follow-ups on your hardware and such)
<Guest25113> if you tell me what info I should grab from the live system
<pleia2> Guest25113: are you in the live system now?
<pleia2> open a terminal and type: ubuntu-bug ubiquity
<pleia2> that will launch the bug reporting tool and collect logs and things it needs :)
<pleia2> ubiquity is the installer software you're submitting the bug against
<Guest25113> yepp, ok will do
<Guest25113> should I quit the hanging install first or does it not matter?
<pleia2> if you can submit the bug report while it's running, I'd do that
<pleia2> you don't want to reboot though
<Guest25113> so much is clear
<Guest25113> one can only attach one file?
<Guest25113> or can I add more after filing
<len-dt> You can add more after filing
<len-dt> You may find it already adds more than one.
<Guest25113> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1165880 looks okay? I'd like to boot to a more functional system again
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1165880 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "raring beta2 amd64 install hangs indefinitely at the preparing to install xubuntu prompt" [Undecided,New]
<len-dt> Do you have a USB stick in the drive with a linux file system on it?
<len-dt> Sorry in the machine.
<Guest25113> nope livecd
<len-dt> Ok, becasue I had that happen to me when I was trying to install onto a USB stick. When I reformated it back to FAT it worked fine.
<len-dt> The system hard drives were not a problem.
<len-dt> (the USB stick had xubuntu 12.10 on it if I remember right)
<Guest25113> I only have input devices and an empty card reader attached via usb
<len-dt> Not the same then.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-31
<knome> morning elfy
<elfy> morning knome 
<jhenke> morning folks
<elfy> hi jhenke 
<jhenke> elfy just out of curiosity, from which part of the world/time zone are you?
<knome> UTC+0000
<jhenke> UK?
<knome> yep.
<elfy> I did that without typing :p
<jhenke> okay, working at cononical or just to uk based?
<elfy> I drive a van for a living ;)
<jhenke> okay
<jhenke> too bad kernel 3.14 got released so late, I thought 14.04 might use it
<ochosi> ahoj
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<lderan> hello :)
<davmor2> elfy: I used to drive a Lorry for a Living :)
<elfy> davmor2: :)
<elfy> I used to wire planes for a living
<elfy> didn't fly them though :p
<lderan> still cool tho 
<davmor2> jhenke: most canonical employees are not based in the uk
<davmor2> jhenke: there are more in the americas and mainland europe
<brainwash> elfy: bug 1299286
<ubottu> bug 1299286 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Display performance regression in Xubuntu 13.10 and 14.04 as VirtualBox guest" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299286
<brainwash> comment #2
<davmor2> elfy: I have delivered steel for a living then worked for a builder merchant then moved on to deliver gas bottles for them that was heavy work though
<jhenke> davmor2 thanks, good to know, but I do not want to get too much into offtopic, now that so many people are alive here
<davmor2> then my shoulder went and now I work on computers
<davmor2> jhenke: they are all alive :P
<brainwash> ochosi: hey, we need to fix the session wallpaper problem asap
<bluesabre> catfish 1.0.2-2 accepted into unstable :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: what's new?
<bluesabre> Python3 instead of 2
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/catfish-search/+bug/1280607
<ochosi> brainwash: what session wallpaper problem?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1280607 in Catfish "Case insensitive search for non english file names doesn't work" [Undecided,In progress]
<brainwash> but doesn't this break the zeitgeist integration?
<bluesabre> it does
<bluesabre> but zeitgeist is only used for instant suggestions
<bluesabre> and it was only in suggests, so never auto-pulled
<brainwash> ok, I somehow doubt that anyone will complain about catfish not utilizing zeitgeit anymore :)
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> but yeah, which session wallpaper problem
<bluesabre> and have we figured out the source of the problem?
 * ochosi was away and doesn't even have a clue
<brainwash> xfdesktop not picking the wallpaper which we define in our xfce4-desktop.xml (xubuntu-default-settings)
<brainwash> so it falls back to the default Xfce one
<brainwash> both wallpapers display a mouse in the centre... so no big deal, or? :D
<bluesabre> is there a bug for this item?
<ochosi> so what's the problem with the session?
<bluesabre> session wallpaper is xfce wallpaper, not xubuntu one
<jhenke> zeitgeist, what a stupid name for such a software (at least for German speakers)...
<ochosi> jhenke: +1
<ochosi> bluesabre: right, it sounded like it was a bug in xfce4-session. but afaik that one doesn't handle wallpapers
<brainwash> zeitgeist is a well known term in the english language
<brainwash> ochosi: it's xfdesktop
<ochosi> yeah, even in english it's a bit misleading to what the service does though
<ochosi> brainwash: have you debugged that a little already?
<knome> brainwash, bug 1297170
<ubottu> bug 1297170 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Live Session starts with XFCE wallpaper/install uses same" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297170
<knome> brainwash, bug 1284910 might be related as well
<ubottu> bug 1284910 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu Beta 1 and Beta 2 installer has debian background wallpaper" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284910
<ochosi> i mean is it a simple bug in our x-d-s file?
<knome> but might not
<ochosi> (that should be easy to verify if you have a brand new setup, which i can't try right now)
<brainwash> I've checked the code a bit and talked to eric, it should work fine according to him, if we switch back the 4.10 config style (xfce4-desktop.xml)
<bluesabre> ah
<brainwash> but the 4.10 config style does not work for me either
<bluesabre> didn't ali1234 mention something like that
<bluesabre> where we need to use the old config and let xfce upgrade it?
<bluesabre> for something or another
<brainwash> I guess so
<brainwash> xfdesktop is able to migrate the config file
<ochosi> that's odd though, why does providing a correct config file not work?
<bluesabre> I'll look into it tonight if nobody beats me to it
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> ttyl bluesabre 
<jhenke> cu bluesabre
<brainwash> it isn't correct, we define "monitor0", but in most cases xfdesktop will use and lock for the actual monitor name like "monitor-HDMI12454"
<brainwash> and therefore create a new entry in the user config file
<ochosi> ah, i see
<brainwash> the old config style should work, but it does not for me
<eric_the_idiot> do you have a link to the old file?
<brainwash> eric_the_idiot: hello :D
<eric_the_idiot> hi
<ochosi> you mean the old config file?
<brainwash> https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/xfdesktop_background
<ochosi> yup, that's the change of config basically
<brainwash> so we've added the "workspace" property
<bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-desktop.xml
<ochosi> andrzejr_,ali1234: fwiw, the gtk3 app-indicators are resized correctly now in xfce (no cut edges anymore with e.g. the skype icon)
<ochosi> knome: but isn't that second bug you linked to a direct problem in ubiquity?
<ochosi> i mean bug 1284910
<ubottu> bug 1284910 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu Beta 1 and Beta 2 installer has debian background wallpaper" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284910
<ochosi> as ubiquity draws the wallpaper itself
<ochosi> and the file is there
<brainwash> bad luck, we fail to display the correct wallpaper in two different apps :D
<ochosi> not sure whether that's really us
<ochosi> the ubiquity issue i really don't understand at all
<ochosi> i hope that xnox or someone more involved with ubiquity will be able to shed some light...
<eric_the_idiot> So I changed the perchannel-xml file to the 4.10 thing, killed xfdesktop, reset/deleted all the xfconf properties, restarted and it worked.
<eric_the_idiot> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7184369/ is the logs from xfdesktop with --enable-debug=full
<brainwash> eric_the_idiot: I'll test it again
<brainwash> eric_the_idiot: http://lpaste.net/102056
<brainwash> oh
<brainwash> image-path vs. image-last
<brainwash> ochosi: can you revert the x-d-s change?
<ochosi> brainwash: i suggest you do a merge-request based on your findings that reverts the current version to one that works
<ochosi> i still can't push to xubuntu-default-settings, so it doesn't make any sense if you describe your changes and then i do the MR (it's just more work that way)
<brainwash> ochosi: can I remove the branches from bug 1271713 ?
<ubottu> bug 1271713 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xubuntu 14.04 trusty thar desktop wallpapers selection shows empty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271713
<brainwash> the problem has been fixed in xfdesktop 4.11.4
<ochosi> brainwash: yup, feel free to unlink those
<brainwash> ochosi: ok :)
<ochosi> brainwash: don't forget to do the merge-request for your branch
<brainwash> ochosi: done
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1296992
<ubottu> bug 1296992 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Leftover conffile" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296992
<brainwash> I guess we should fix this too
<brainwash> or if not, close the report
<ochosi> huhu, mr_pouit is reporting bugs now instead of fixing them :)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> quite ballsy, being one of the two ppl who can actually push to xubuntu-default-settings
<knome> better than nothing, eh?
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> brainwash: i'm a bit too busy with other things this week, i can't really take on additional bugreports
<ochosi> if you can look into it, that'd be great
<brainwash> so it is a problem we want to fix?
<ochosi> well i don't consider it a huge problem
<ochosi> it only affects those that are already on 14.04
<ochosi> at least if i understood it correctly
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> ochosi: mmh, micahg should know how to do it properly
<ochosi> light-locker* got sponsored
<brainwash> eric_the_idiot: do you plan to release xfdesktop 4.11.5 soon? would be great if we could ship a version without all the additional patches from git/master :)
<brainwash> knome: can you please comment on bug 1299286 ?
<ubottu> bug 1299286 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Display performance regression in Xubuntu 13.10 and 14.04 as VirtualBox guest" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299286
<brainwash> the reporter requests a change in the documentation
<brainwash> (comment #2)
<lenny> Hello! I'm trying out the 14.04 beta, is there a reason why the icons on the upper left corner is so large?
<brainwash> lenny: hi there, which icons exactly?
<lenny> brainwash, if you choose to have the numix look
<lenny> settings -> window manager -> numix
<brainwash> the new default size for desktop icons is or will be 48px
<brainwash> so you mean the icons in the window decoration?
<lenny> Is it because I have a low resolution  screen then?
<lenny> brainwash, yes
<brainwash> not sure, can you upload a screenshot?
<lenny> sure, sec
<brainwash> ochosi might have an explanation 
<lenny> http://i.imgur.com/0eaPLSc.png
<brainwash> oh, that is indeed rather big
<brainwash> lenny: you could file a bug report against "shimmer-themes"
<brainwash> and/or wait until ochosi returns
<lenny> on launch-pad?
<brainwash> yes, or directly here https://github.com/shimmerproject/Numix
<lenny> k, filed it at github
<lenny> Another question, what was the name of the old menu (the one replaced with whisker-menu)?
<brainwash> lenny: thanks :)
<brainwash> application menu
<knome> brainwash, looks like something we could mention on the release notes, but wouldn't want to push for a docs change in 14.04; 14.04.1 is different again
<knome> brainwash, updated the bug.
<knome> not sure if it's a bug in -meta at all..
<knome> bbl
<brainwash> knome: thanks, I assume that this only affects very few people anyway
<brainwash> ali1234: bug 1300277
<ubottu> bug 1300277 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "monitor names incorrect in dual monitor setup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300277
<brainwash> you've created an upstream report some time ago, it does address this issue, correct?
<jhenke> whoever asked earlier, xfdesktop 4.11.5 got released
<ali1234> brainwash: yes
<Noskcaj> So the day my xfdesktop git-patches branch gets accepted, 4.11.5 comes out anyway
<ochosi> Noskcaj: sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you...
<ochosi> have the patches been sponsored/uploaded yet?
<Noskcaj> yep
<brainwash> Noskcaj: :D
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, You didn't need to make catfish a "team upload". Your a maintainer of it
<Noskcaj> *you're
<brainwash> without upload/merge rights everything seems so sloooow
<Noskcaj> brainwash, But syncing catfish worked, so i'm happy
<brainwash> hooray :)
<brainwash> Noskcaj: btw, I've just attached the patch files to the abiword reports, did not want to bother with properly packaging it
<Noskcaj> I can try and package it. but i think you should learn how to
<brainwash> yeah, but I would prefer a new debian release
<brainwash> because there are more fixes for the stable branch
<Noskcaj> Then email the maintainer, a lot
<brainwash> but I don't do debian, so far I've only reported 1 bug to the debian guys
<brainwash> maybe I should stop avoiding debian
<Noskcaj> can't hurt
<lenny> brainwash: I switched my desktop from debian to 14.04 today :D
<brainwash> lenny: why that?
<lenny> A couple of reasons, 1. DPM for my radeon card still didn't work with the 3.13 kernel and I was tiered of the fans running at full speed. So if I forfeit my freedom why bother. 2. Other small issues like sometimes freezing at the login screen and other small annoyances
<Justanick> Hello, is it useful, that an upgrade from the last LTS did not remove the 
<Justanick> linux-image-generic-lts-quantal
<Justanick> linux-headers-generic-lts-quantal
<Justanick> packages?
<Justanick> Also the new gcc is not added to update-alternatives
<Justanick> Still showing the old gcc 4.6
<brainwash> lenny: ah ok
<brainwash> Justanick: ask in #ubuntu-devel about the leftover kernel files
<brainwash> and gcc too :)
<Justanick> brainwash: I will do it now. ;)
<lenny> by the way, brainwash, they were fast to respond on the github page :) https://github.com/shimmerproject/Numix/issues/115
<lenny> thanks for the tip
<brainwash> oh wow, that was very fast indeed
<brainwash> but a possible fix might not land in 14.04
<lenny> :'(
<brainwash> you will to file a launchpad report against shimmer-themes and hope that the fix finds its way into 14.04
<brainwash> other than that, just use the git version :)
<lenny> Can you guide me through filing a launchpad report? I've just made an account
<elfy> lenny: for shimmer-themes do ubuntu-bug shimmer-themes in a terminal
<lenny> elfy: thanks
<lenny> Does this contain enough information? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1300422
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1300422 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Numix theme icons too large" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> lenny: should be enough, but the bug report title is a bit vague :)
<elfy> not that it matters much given the link to the issue on shimmerprojects :)
<brainwash> :P
<lenny> what themes do you guys use?
<elfy> I just use what is default mostly
<ali1234> i use orion
<jhenke> Intially I used Greybird, but recently prefering Albatross and sometimes Bluebird
<jhenke> the nice thing is that Xubuntu really comes with several nice themes and changing is easy
<jhenke> so I sometimes change after some days, keeping the experience fresh
<jhenke> good night
<lenny> good night jhenke 
<brainwash> can anyone confirm this? 1. create a new folder and a new file on the desktop 2. move the file into the folder 3. file icon glitches
<elfy> I installed 13.10 to look at that - couldn't confirm it 
<elfy> meant to go and leave a note 
<brainwash> 13.10?
<brainwash> I'm confused
<elfy> yea - I assume you're talking about bug 1300398
<ubottu> bug 1300398 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar don't refresh directory on content change" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300398
<brainwash> no
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10785
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10785 in General "Moving a file/folder to a different location does not clear the file icon" [Normal,New]
<elfy> hang on I'll check now
<elfy> dragging it into the folder?
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> so that the file should vanish from the desktop
<elfy> I can only ever get that to copy not move :)
<brainwash> so it's still there?
<brainwash> on the desktop
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> can't even get it to do that now ... 
<brainwash> describe what you see :D
<elfy> aaaah 
<elfy> ok - got the file icon on the desktop - open thunar and go look - not there :)
<elfy> and this time with a new folder and new file it moved it 
<brainwash> very odd
<elfy> but I've been seeing that for an age - just assumed it was copying and not moving :)
<elfy> commenting in the bug
<brainwash> aaaah, so you opened ~/Desktop in thunar?
<elfy> as well
<brainwash> and the file was not there, but still visible on the desktop?
<elfy> to see what was going on - but I didn't actually do anything in thunar
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> great
<elfy> I'll get a screenie if you want 
<brainwash> and if you try to delete the file on the desktop, it will tell you that it cannot find the file anymore
 * pleia2 did think it was odd that gema wouldn't just submit a bug
<elfy> sigh
<brainwash> thanks for commenting
<elfy> I didn't - I attached the screenie and it lost the comment :|
<brainwash> oh
<brainwash> one picture is worth ten thousand words
<elfy> commented this time :)
<elfy> brainwash: and I had purged your ppa - so am back to standard
<brainwash> so the system freeze is back?
<elfy> yea - but I know that it's fixable now - so it doesn't annoy me as much :)
<brainwash> nice
<elfy> it'll turn up eventually :)
<Justanick> Is there an option to limit tumbler to ~20% of cpu usage or anything similar?
<Justanick> Create a copy of ~15.000 objects pushed the cpu heavily to its limit.
<ali1234> there will be when we get systemd
<brainwash> don't let it crash, we got enough tumbler crash report already :P
<ali1234> right now you would have to set up all the necessary cgroups stuff manually
<Justanick> Maybe something for a rainy day.
<elfy> brainwash: and a desktop reload loses the orphan icon
<brainwash> elfy: indeed
<Justanick> But so far, the runtime on battery seems to be a lot better than on the old LTS version. Thanks!
<elfy> well - had enough of monday - cya tomorrow :)
<ochosi> lenny: as brainwash said, not sure we can land that in trusty
<ochosi> at least not in the release iso, maybe in .1
<ochosi> i wonder how the ibus issue is going...
<brainwash> prepare for major uproar after final release xD
<lenny> ochosi: Okay, thanks for being so responsive :)
<ochosi> btw, did you see that larsu updated indicator-sound so that the hover-effect is back on all buttons
<brainwash> on all buttons?
<ochosi> lenny: sure no problem. took a while of digging around, but after i had figured it out it wasn't hard to fix
<ochosi> brainwash: yes, also prev and next
<brainwash> aaah
<brainwash> oh nice
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> you
<ochosi> your patch is paying off now
<brainwash> got a bit bored and created https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/xubuntu-default-settings/tooltip-size
<brainwash> or am I the only one who dislikes these big desktop tooltips?
<brainwash> maybe I should bother eric with it :D
<ochosi> i dunno, i don't think that's really important
<ochosi> my main argument would be that of those large icons we're missing quite a bunch e.g. in mimes
<ochosi> so it would make sense to go down to 64px
<ochosi> brainwash: but yeah, i guess the point here is not to let you get bored..
<brainwash> ochosi: exactly, now is the fun time
<brainwash> getting 14.04 into good shape
<ochosi> brainwash: well there are a semi-critical few issues i think we need to get fixed
<ochosi> "few" <-> "semi-critical"
<ochosi> updated the draft for the locking article on x.org, in case anyone wants to proofread
<Unit193> Also, for Unicorn we should s/xchat/hexchat/
<starrats> that sounds cool both irc chat apps
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-01
<Unit193> One activly developed, one not.
<OvenWerk1> zequence: It looks like ubuntustudio-menu has been released. However the changelog in our branch still says UNRELEASED does that mean I should change that to trusty?
<OvenWerk1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-menu/+bug/1295354
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1295354 in ubuntustudio-menu (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Menu item for entangle is in the wrong sub menu" [Low,Fix released]
<OvenWerk1> see the launchpad janitor entry at the bottom.
<OvenWerk1> micahg: ^^
<OvenWerk1> Or is there something else to do?
<elfy> ochosi: do we still want lightdm logs for lightdm-greeter hanging about after login?
<ochosi> elfy: actually i pushed a fix to the 1.8.4 release of the greeter that bluesabre did a few days ago and that dholbach just sponsored...
<ochosi> elfy: so what would in fact be more useful now would be if you could check if 1.8.4 fixes the issue for you
<ethermonk> ubottu isitout?
<ubottu> Yeah, yeah
<elfy> ochosi: yea - saw that turn up just as I posted in here :)
<starrats> morning elfy 
<elfy> hi
<ochosi> elfy: sure, hope it actually fixes your issue ;) if you can reproduce any other greeter bugs, that's always welcome obviously
<Unit193> ochosi: Oh, did you have Eric or someone take a look at the new method to find icons?
<Unit193> xfce4-panel+broken menu icons.
<ochosi> Unit193: yes, he posted a patch against garcon
<Unit193> OH right, that was garcon, not the panel.  Well now I'll go fish it up and patch it.
<ochosi> Unit193: it would be nice if you could put the patch in a MR for xubuntu...
<ochosi> (or if you prepare it somehow and then hand it to jackson like last time)
<Unit193> Well, figured Xubuntu would wait for someone to review and commit it.
<Unit193> And, one more annoyance.  Too large icons in the indicator plugin, any way to fix?
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, re-introduce icon-scaling in the plugin...
<Unit193> Building now at any rate.  (Assigned wrong, but xfce 10709)
<ochosi> and as far as i can tell, it only affects indicator-application, because there we don't control the icons
<ubottu> xfce bug 10709 in Applications Menu "Some icons not being displayed after upgrade to xfce4-panel-4.11.0" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10709
<Unit193> Awwh, dang.  Only way? :/
<ochosi> yeah, well previously libindicator used to hand off pixmaps at a fixed size
<ochosi> but as they need different scale-factors for hidpi support, they changed that and are using icon-names now
<ochosi> which is generally a good move, but the indicator-plugin hasn't been updated accordingly yet
<Unit193> Meh, that's the last "annoying" bug for trusty that I can think of now that garcon is fixed for me (samba counts as higher than annoying.)
<ochosi> but yeah, i'm a bit annoyed by that too. e.g. spotify provides icons for its client in all sizes up to 512px, so really nice. but somehow i get the 16px icon upscaled and fuzzy
<ochosi> yeah, sure, it's just a visual glitch
<Unit193> So here's the thing, seems I use and like size 22. :P
<ochosi> i wonder whether just re-introducing the scaling code that was ditched earlier would help or whether things would have to be handled differently
<ochosi> yeah, for most ppl that's an ok size
<ochosi> Unit193: btw, one workaround is to create apparmor profiles and prevent the loading of certain appindicators. ideally you'll get a trayicon as fallback with a sharp icon ;)
<Unit193> Hah. :P
<ochosi> yeah, i know, fun, right? :D
<ochosi> feel free to put that in the FAQ
<Unit193> Garcon in ppa:unit193/xfce, not sure you still use that one.
<ochosi> ok ty
<ochosi> i presume it works as expected for you
<Unit193> Technically not that exact build, but yes.
<Unit193> Quite nice. :)
<brainwash> what does it fix?
<Unit193> Xfce bug 5395
<ubottu> xfce bug 5395 in General "Log out buttons get messed up." [Normal,Resolved: wontfix] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5395
<Unit193> Err...
<Unit193> xfce Bug 10709
<ubottu> xfce bug 10709 in Applications Menu "Some icons not being displayed after upgrade to xfce4-panel-4.11.0" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10709
<brainwash> oh, I guess we need that fix for trusty
<ochosi> ok, if you guys can do some more testing of the patch, that'd be great, i gotta take off now for more RL work...
<ochosi> bbl
<brainwash> ochosi: new idea: only show big tooltips for image files
<brainwash> I'll forward this idea upstream
<jhenke> hi folks
<brainwash> hello jhenke 
<elfy> ochosi: tbh - others were getting the issue - I've had it twice since it surfaced - I just promised I'd get logs ;)
<jhenke> btw folks, you can just use my given name, Jan, the irc nick was choosen mostly for uniqueness
<elfy> people will carry on using jhenke - tab complete works on that :)
<jhenke> elfy yeah, I know I also use it, still I find it better to also offer the real name instead
<brainwash> I don't agree :D
<brainwash> makes things more complicated
<elfy> using tabcomplete is more complicated?
<brainwash> no
<brainwash> mixing nick and real name
<elfy> aah yea 
<brainwash> elfy: got a minute to test thunar from https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test ?
<elfy> I often use Kev on mails
<brainwash> bug 1271861
<ubottu> bug 1271861 in thunar (Ubuntu) ""Open with 'default app'" in right click context menu with wrong icon" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271861
<elfy> brainwash: I will a bit later - juts got back in from work and could eat a scabby dog ... 
<brainwash> sure
<elfy> brainwash: looking now
<elfy> fixes it
<lenny> um I'm experiencing something strange: Enigmail claims I'm using gpg-agent for passphrase handling, but: "The program 'gpg-agent' is currently not installed"
<lenny> Solved it by apt-get purgeing it at installing enigmail from addons instead of package manager
<elfy> Unit193: thanks :) seen the test report now
<ochosi> brainwash: yup, that was what i was trying to imply as a sensible solution
<ochosi> i just think the benefit of shrinking the default size is minimal
<ochosi> micahg: how about some more xubuntu-default-settings merges? we've got an open bug with respect to the default wallpaper that should be fixed
<jhenke> good night folks
<elfy> good night jhenke 
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> hey there elfy 
<ochosi> jhenke: found an itch to scratch yet or need help? :}
<ochosi> jhenke: anyway, night!
<elfy> had no luck catching this guy assigned to the ibus bug
<Unit193> elfy: Sure.  Finally was able. :)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, i mean i'm happy it is assigned to someone else now, but that doesn't mean it's gonna get fixed in time
<ochosi> who's the assignee?
<daniell> is a bugreport considered a support or a development thing?
<daniell> I don't have mouse control or internet access on my new xubuntu 14.04, and I'm not sure how to report the bugs
<Noskcaj> daniell, What's the bug?
<Noskcaj> When you have internet, you should run "ubuntu-bug PACKAGE" from a terminal.
<Noskcaj> When you don
<Noskcaj> 't, go to another pc and use the report a bug feature in launchpad
<daniell> can I let it dump to a file?
<Noskcaj> daniell, Yeah, although i'm not sure if that wil provide useful info. might as well try
<ochosi> wow, no mouse-control or internet access
<ochosi> so i take it you're not here using xubuntu 14.04?
<elfy> ochosi: guy called Aron Xu - chinese timezone 
<daniell> yeah it kinda sucks. I suspect updates will solve my mouse troiuble, but no ethernet =(
<daniell> ochosi: no, this is a screen on my server
<elfy> Noskcaj: afaik you can dump the report on the affected machine and then report using that from another machine
<ochosi> elfy: right, well that one at least really fixes ibus related stuff. just saw a recent update for ubuntu kylin by him
<Noskcaj> daniell, There is a way you can update while offline, but it might need the mouse to work
<elfy> yea 
<ochosi> anyhoo, i'll be back a bit latr
<elfy> daniell: I think that you can use apport-bug --save
<elfy> you'll need to add the package name and a name for the file 
<daniell> elfy: I just typed that in =p. Weird thing is internet worked while the installer was running
<elfy> then you can apport-bug /path/to/saved/crash/file
<elfy> on a machine with internet
<micom> hello, wondering if i may  get involved into xubuntu project if im a c++ developer, i would look forward to join this project. It would be my first Open source experience.
<brainwash> ochosi: bu 1299516
<brainwash> bug 1299516
<ubottu> bug 1299516 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Font rendering in some plugins is broken when the panel is vertical. " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299516
<brainwash> trying to figure out which package to use as target
<brainwash> or just leave xfce4-panel
<brainwash> keep
<ochosi> brainwash: what andrzejr_ said, it's actually a really old bug in the gtk2 murrine engine
<ochosi> shouldn't be hard to fix
<ochosi> so try to get a hold of Cimi and motivate him to fix it ;)
<ochosi> i guess it's just a rare case that got overlooked
<ochosi> same as with the mixed checkboxes
<ochosi> but iirc NSchermer submitted a patch for those back in the day
<ochosi> not sure it ever got applied anywhere
<brainwash> don't really care about the bug
<brainwash> just want to properly assign the report
<pleia2> I lost track, does daily have wallpaper yet?
<knome> no...
<knome> ...still
<pleia2> bah, can I download it somewhere so I can just toss it in for a screenshot?
<knome> i guess we could/should ramp it up the sponsors queue
<knome> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/trusty/download/262/xubuntutrusty.png-20140328011110-pzapco38rr1lecbs-1/xubuntu-trusty.png
<pleia2> ty
<pleia2> cute mousey mouse <3
 * knome bows
<brainwash> bug 1300516
<ubottu> bug 1300516 in dbus (Ubuntu) "upstart sessions needs to create upstart cache directory" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300516
<brainwash> ?!
<brainwash> xubuntu session broken at the moment? 
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-02
<jhenke> hi folks
<ochosi> morning
<starrats> good morning everyone
<Adam_T> howdy!
<starrats> morning Adam_T
<jhenke> good morning
<starrats> good morning jhenke
<starrats> almost thought I had a 'bug' to complain about this morning from last night's update/upgrade but this morning's update/upgrade went as smooth as silk
<starrats> Is Liberoffice ready for download/install on 14.04, a couple folks I know on FB are having some problems with it and I was going to install it on mine but haven't yet?
<elfy> starrats: I've been using libreoffice on trusty since I installed it in Oct/Nov last year
<starrats> ah okay elfy
<elfy> seem to have a whole bunch of kde packages kicking about suddenly
<jhenke> kde? where does those come from?
<elfy> no idea - but I've just removed a bunch of packages and appear to have no wallpaper now 
<ochosi> maybe you removed xfdesktop? :)
<elfy> nope
<elfy> first - I'm not sure where the kde stuff appeared from - but that could be explainable :p
<elfy> there was an upgrade to xfdesktop to 4.11.5-0ubuntu1
<brainwash_> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10788
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10788 in General "Desktop background disappears when changing GTK theme" [Major,New]
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/BLxyhM78 can't see anything odd in there - odd why they are on here
<brainwash_> dunno
<brainwash_> it's still the same issue (wallpaper disappears)
<elfy> could have been clementine
<elfy> ubiquity-frontend-kde
<elfy> coincidence then :)
<elfy> brainwash_: I didn't change themes - I was just doing stuff in synaptic
<elfy> though the kill works
<brainwash_> this was my initial bug title, it can also disappear on other occasions
<elfy> aah ok :)
<brainwash_> sadly I didn't notice this before :/
<elfy> well it's a new one on me as well ;)
<brainwash_> yeah, but you do not test the upstream changes :)
<lenny> elfy: I'm an ex-clementine user, try quodlibet ;)
<elfy> lenny: tried that ... 
<elfy> tried everything ... 
<lenny> but?
<elfy> clementine is as close as I can get to how I want it to work - so I stick with it :)
<lenny> :) sound decision
<ochosi> brainwash_, elfy: yeah, can confirm that bug with the wallpaper disappearing straight on the xfdesktop upgrade
<ochosi> (killing xfdesktop once brings it back though)
<elfy> good - I thought I'd broken it - really don't want to have to redo this install till we've released 
<elfy> :)
<brainwash_> unlucky, we fix a regression and a new bug appears :/
<elfy> could be worse ... we could have fixed ibus ;)
<brainwash_> ibus will be the new broken indicator-sound (13.10)
<ochosi> well then fix it :)
<brainwash_> impossible
<brainwash_> that's the dark side
<elfy> no it won't be - if it doesn't get fixed then we'll not ship it 
<brainwash_> you need to be magician to understand this stuff
<brainwash_> I'll focus on the xfce related issues
<brainwash_> like bug 1292290
<ubottu> bug 1292290 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292290
<lenny> works on my machine (tm)
<brainwash_> what works?
<lenny> keybindings
<brainwash_> did you change any?
<lenny> yes
<brainwash_> like?
<lenny> mod enter for terminal
<brainwash_> no, we are talking about window manager keybindings
<brainwash_> like "switch to workspace 1"
<lenny> oh, sorry then :)
<brainwash_> or "maximize window"
<brainwash_> elfy: xfdesktop 4.11.5 + patches for the new bugs (moving files, disappearing wallpaper)
<brainwash_> https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
<brainwash_> looking forward to tell noskcaj to prepare yet another xfdesktop4 upload :)
<elfy> brainwash_: that appears to work for the file issue - no idea about the desktop, don't know how to create the issue :)
<brainwash_> elfy: simply change the gtk theme
<brainwash_> settings manager > appearance 
<elfy> oh well - I'e purged it now 
<brainwash_> great, now you can see if the patch works
<brainwash_> before and after
<elfy> can't do that 
<elfy> it's Wednesday
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> settings - appearance - fiddling with those doesn't do anything unexpected ... 
<brainwash_> did you purge and restart xfdesktop?
<elfy> oh - not sure when I rebooted 
<elfy> ok - cool - that's got it 
<brainwash_> wallpaper gone?
<elfy> yep
<elfy> ok - that works too then
<brainwash_> also uploaded xfce4-power-manager, it should now sync the power-manager and session setting for "lock screen on suspend"
<brainwash_> settings manager > session and startup > advanced
<brainwash_> I think
<brainwash_> and the power-manager one
<elfy> lock screen before sleep?
<brainwash_> yes
<brainwash_> we have two settings for it
<brainwash_> not counting light-locker-settings
<brainwash_> oh man, so much to test =S
<elfy> ok - they sync
<elfy> what's the xfwm4 in there for?
<brainwash_> to hide the unused maximize button for dialog windows
<brainwash_> check the PPA description for links to the bug reports
<elfy> bug is just rabbiting on about ubiquity
<elfy> ok - maximise is missing from update search index in catfish
<brainwash_> ubiquity uses xfwm4 to render window decorations I guess
<brainwash_> but all dialog windows in Xfce are affected
<elfy> some are still there - but work 
<brainwash_> well, windows which are not meant to be resizable, but still show the maximize button
<elfy> yea
<elfy> purging now 
<brainwash_> now re-install xfdesktop from my ppa :D
<brainwash_> restart it and change the gtk theme
<elfy> did you see what I just typed
<elfy> oh I've done that - that worked
<brainwash_> so quick?
<brainwash_> so the wallpaper does not disappear anymore with the patch?
<elfy> nope 
<brainwash_> great
<elfy> mmm
<brainwash_> o.o
<brainwash_> I did not test it yet
<elfy> just rechecking something
<brainwash_> watching soccer atm
<ochosi> brainwash_: just tested xfpm patch from your ppa
<elfy> yep - rechecked that - appears to work
<ochosi> seems like the sync doesn't always work both ways, at least with both dialogs open changing it in session doesn't do anything in xfpm
<ochosi> the other way round (xfpm > session) works perfectly
<brainwash_> don't open both dialogs :)
<brainwash_> elfy: thanks for testing
<ochosi> well we want a two-way sync
<ochosi> and actually the patch *should* do that
<ochosi> maybe just the dialog doesn't update
<ochosi> i guess i'll monitor xfconf...
<brainwash_> possibly
<brainwash_> ochosi: should we add the lp report to -bugs
<brainwash_> bug 1101982
<ubottu> bug 1101982 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "inconsistent settings for lock screen between xfce4-session and xfce4-power-manager" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1101982
<brainwash_> it's even marked as security issue
<ochosi> added
<brainwash_> ok
<ochosi> if i have time i'll look at the monitoring code later
<ochosi> but actually it should work automagically unless it monitors the wrong channel
<ochosi> hmmm
<ochosi> brainwash_: if i patch this github version, what's easiest for you to update the PPA with? a git patch? or want me to push the cloned thing into a separate repo?
<elfy> ochosi: is anything going to be happening with lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings in trusty - other than a ppa?
<ochosi> elfy: there is already a request to get it uploaded, so it'll be installable
<ochosi> but we didn't go for installing it by default in xubuntu
<ochosi> it simply seemed too late in the cycle
<elfy> ok - cool, it's the last ppa I have here
<elfy> yep - understood :)
<elfy> all these new -settings things - easy for me to confuse myself :p
<brainwash_> ochosi: git patch should be fine
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, agreed
<ochosi> brainwash_: btw, it might be worth to wait for xfdesktop4.11.6
<brainwash_> maybe
<brainwash_> but we need the wallpaper fix now
<brainwash_> otherwise people will start to whine
<ochosi> no, we need it in the release
<brainwash_> rc
<brainwash_> is there a limit for uploads of the same package? :D
<brainwash_> maybe limited by noskcaj's nerves =S
<ochosi> and by the sponsors' nerves/time
<brainwash_> it's always so stressful without an active uploader
<elfy> it might possibly be better to not overdo the same package :p
<ochosi> yeah, that's why i would avoid another scenario where we first upload git fixes/patches and a day later there's a proper release
<brainwash_> want to create a lp report?
<ochosi> ok, so the monitoring in xfpm works
<ochosi> just something in the setting of that xfconf property doesn't
<brainwash_> well, someone will create a report for the new wallpaper problem anyway
<brainwash_> ochosi: so it works now properly?
<ochosi> 21:33  ochosi$ just something in the setting of that xfconf property doesn't
<brainwash_> ah, so no patch yet
<brainwash_> just observations :)
<Noskcaj_> brainwash_, Are there any particular fixes that need packaging currently?
<brainwash_> Noskcaj_: not yet I guess
<Noskcaj_> ok. I'll try and get that xfwm4 fix packaged sometime soon though
<brainwash_> but we got some patches
<brainwash_> well, it's not tested widely yet
<ochosi> Noskcaj_: well unless you wanna potentially run into that xfdesktop scenario again... ;)
<brainwash_> also got a patch for bug 1271861
<ubottu> bug 1271861 in thunar (Ubuntu) ""Open with 'default app'" in right click context menu with wrong icon" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271861
<Noskcaj_> ochosi, good point. I probably have to merge xfdesktop from debian too
<brainwash_> and lets not forget about abiword :)
<Noskcaj_> gulp
<Noskcaj_> That's the one i'm, worried about working on.
<Unit193> brainwash_: Did you test my garcon yet?
<brainwash_> ah, no
<brainwash_> did not activate the PPA yet
<brainwash_> but I've already added the classic app menu :)
<brainwash_> Unit193: do we have a lp report for this issue?
<jhenke> good night folks
<Unit193> brainwash_: I use the classic menu as well, this fixes it.
<ochosi> night jhenke 
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, that one is a pretty obvious fix for a shortcoming in garcon
<Unit193> But testing before upload might be nice.
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> didn't mean we shouldn't
<ochosi> i guess that means i also should test that one
<elfy> I'm all for not testing anything at all ever :p
<ochosi> btw, does xfpm<->session sync work for anyone both ways and am i the only one it's only working one-way for?
<ochosi> (just so that i know, cause the code seems fine from what i can tell and the signal gets caught when the property gets changed in session)
<elfy> ochosi: I'll test it again now 
<ochosi> Unit193: could you link me to your ppa with garcon again?
<Noskcaj_> It seems there's duplication of settings from xfpm to light-locker-settings for when the monitor turns off
<Noskcaj_> This could be an issue
<elfy> ochosi: if I set lock in power manager it syncs to adv in sessions, changing it then in sessions does NOT sync to power manager - unless I happen to have another instance of settings manager open
<ochosi> Noskcaj_: this is what we're looking at. there are 3 settings that need to be kept in sync (xfpm, session and lls)
<Noskcaj_> That's a worry
<ochosi> elfy: yup, that's what i'm seeing
<elfy> ochosi: ok 
<ochosi> so that part where the setting gets applied needs a touch
<ochosi> Noskcaj_: not really, we're working on it. bugs that are not being worked on are a worry ;)
<Noskcaj_> :)
<Unit193> ochosi: ppa:unit193/xfce
<Unit193> (That's also the one with xfwm though.)
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, just realized i had already added it :)
<ochosi> anyhoo, as expected it works nicely
<ochosi> haven't found any apps it doesn't work with
<Unit193> Worked for everything on me as well.
<ochosi> brainwash_: thunar open-with patch seems to work
<elfy> night all
<Unit193> Next time you see Noskcaj, you can ping him for the garcon upload. (My packaging while working is a bit fudged.)
<brainwash_> also shows the execute icon for executable files
<ochosi> Unit193: do we have a bugreport for that and if so, is it linked to xubuntu-t-bugs?
<Unit193> ochosi: Xfce bug.
<ochosi> yeah, but we need a bugreport on lp too
<ochosi> or at least i'd consider that more transparent
<brainwash_> maybe no one noticed yet, because we switched to whisker
<ochosi> bbiab
<Unit193> brainwash_: Affects whisker too, IIRC.
<brainwash_> I doubt that
<Unit193> ochosi uses whisker, so I'd think he'd only see it if it's also in whisker.  If whisker uses garcon, then yes, and it does build-dep on garcon...
<brainwash_> i did not notice any missing icons in whisker
<brainwash_> and I have tons of installed apps
<ochosi> i think whisker uses its own way of gathering icons
<ochosi> either that or it uses the old garcon way
<ochosi> (which is still there)
<Unit193> Alright, I'm wrong, time to take me out back. :(
<ochosi> either way, we should try to get the patch in trusty
<ochosi> even if that means more delta
<brainwash_> it has to work properly
<brainwash_> so better fix it than listen to people's complains
<brainwash_> ochosi: btw enabling MONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP did not seem to cause any trouble yet
<brainwash_> on a large scale :)
<ochosi> how many testers do we have on that one?
<ochosi> or is that already included as a patch?
<brainwash_> already included
<brainwash_> since 2014-03-09
<Unit193> ochosi: And the problem I have still exists after disableing that (though may not be as bad.)
<brainwash_> well, not included, it's a compile flag
<brainwash_> Unit193: wait what?
<brainwash_> or are you talking about something else?
<ochosi> pleia2: while you're around, if you happen to have some spare time/energy, feel free to look at the article on locking i wrote for xubuntu.org, just to see whether it's all understandable and makes sense
<brainwash_> Unit193: garcon patch works for me
<pleia2> ochosi: sneaky
<pleia2> ochosi: I can look in about an hour, just about to hop on a call
<ochosi> pleia2: hehe. sure, there's absolutely no rush, you can also do this tomorrow or another day ;)
<brainwash_> where can I find the article?
<Unit193> brainwash_: I have problems with newer xfwm, disable the root pixmap and they are slightly less, but still there.
<brainwash_> less what?
<brainwash_> screen flicker?
<brainwash_> or artifacts
<Unit193> Slightly less apparent.
<Unit193> Right, well...
<Unit193> Artifacts, but more like puzzle pieces from previous screens.
<ochosi> brainwash_: you need to be in the xubuntu web team or have access to the xubuntu.org website
<ochosi> i guess i can send it to you plaintext though
<brainwash_> secret documents? :)
<ochosi> nah, that's just the normal process, you write stuff up in wordpress
<ochosi> then someone from the team reviews, then you hit publish
<Unit193> Did you "fix" all the comments I had on it?
<ochosi> i think so, yes
<brainwash_> makes me wonder, why do we need such an article?
<brainwash_> I mean, do we have to explain something which does not work properly yet?
<brainwash_> or something which is not obvious
<ochosi> brainwash_: ygm
<brainwash_> did you mail me a book?
<brainwash_> that's a long article
<brainwash_> but I like it so far
<brainwash_> people will start asking questions.. and now we can point them to this article
<ochosi> that's the idea
<brainwash_> "our vision" :)
<brainwash_> but damn, this article is really too long
<brainwash_> most people on the internets won't read the whole thing :(
<brainwash_> but I like it, good job
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> not sure i care about whether ppl will read it fully when i post it
<ochosi> but i wanna have a single page we can send ppl to
<ochosi> and i expect this change to generate some attention/questions
<brainwash_> a lot
<brainwash_> any plans for a short article about the workspace switcher removal (default setup)?
<ochosi> nope, feel free to write one
<ochosi> what kind of stuff do we ship that still needs gst0.10?
<ochosi> Unit193: wanna merge a few more xfwm4 branches in for your PPA?
<ochosi> i'm specifically thinking of the headerbar patch
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-03
<bluesabre> +1
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I took a look at your light locker article
<jjfrv8> the virtual terminal paragraph was over my head but otherwise I found it very understandable
<jjfrv8> it helped me understand a lot of the discussion about it that has gone on here
<ochosi> happy to hear
<jjfrv8> I did make a couple of minor suggestions and submitted them for review
<ochosi> to the article?
<jjfrv8> yes
<jjfrv8> I'm not sure if I did it right
<ochosi> not sure either
<ochosi> i for one didn't know you could add suggestions and reviews in wordpress
<ochosi> to me it looks like you still have that page locked for editing
<jjfrv8> just logged out
<ochosi> i guess i gotta look at the history of the article to see your suggestions/changes
<jjfrv8> yeah, if you browse Revisions, it looks like my edits are showing as the current revision
<ochosi> well, yeah, cause there is no review function in wordpress
<ochosi> putting the status to "pending review" is misleading
<ochosi> hence i changed that
<jjfrv8> I took a chance and hit the 'Submit for review' button. Didn't know what that would do but figured you could repair the damage :)
<ochosi> sure, np
<ochosi> you're a native speaker, aren't you?
<jjfrv8> yes
<ochosi> well nvm, it's still "its", not "it's"
<ochosi> because it's possessive, not short for "it is"
<ochosi> and afaik you can use integrate with "into"
<ochosi> or we say "integrated in gnome shell"
<jjfrv8> sure
<ochosi> oh right, then WP was showing that messed up
<Unit193> ochosi: I'd like the patch that magically turns header bars into normal menus. :P
<Unit193> I can update from Xfwm master, sure.
<ochosi> yeah, but that was a bit hacky iirc
<ochosi> headerbars patch hasn't been merged yet, just fyi
<Unit193> ...I think I'd prefer hacky to headerbars...
<Unit193> ochosi: How would file-roller be changed with it?
<ochosi> fileroller doesn't have a headerbar
<ochosi> it uses the normal window-decoration
<ochosi> it uses gnome's appmenu
<ochosi> which is a different thing
<Unit193> No, but it does have weird menus.
<ochosi> i know
<ochosi> we should report a bug...
<Unit193> OK, is there anything that does have them?
<ochosi> gthumb
<ochosi> you'll see window-deco packed in window-deco
<ochosi> looks awesome
<Unit193> Not installed. \o/
<Unit193> So, I suppose if it's a clean patch, sure.
<GridCube> :D
<pleia2> ochosi: it's a good post, I might convert some of the ()s to , though (I am also guilty of parathetical abuse, so I am aware ..see?)
<jhenke> goooood morning
<elfy> ochosi knome - got a this re the ibus issue " it's on my list for some time but I can't promise anything right now, as some other stuff is filling all my time with higher priority..."
<ochosi> humm
<ochosi> that's not very comforting news
<knome> no, not really, but we should push it, because it's most probably a regression they introduced
<jhenke> how about removing ibus for the moment? (RC is in one week!)
<jhenke> I guess adding it back later is easier than a last minute removal
<ochosi> yeah, i'd like to hear that suggestion from someone who really knows about the common use-cases/scenarios for ibus
<ochosi> we might upset a lot of ppl by just dropping it â or not
<ochosi> it seems to be a bit of a black box until now
<jhenke> hmm, is shipping a broken feature worse than not shipping it?
<ochosi> it's just broken by default, it's repairable by users from what i heard
<jhenke> at least for me (german keyboard) the current bahviour is clearly a serious problem
<jhenke> yes, but it gives a very bad first impression
<jhenke> and I am not sure if the avarage users wants to dig into this
<ochosi> i'm personally in favor of dropping ibus, but i'd like someone with more xp on the issue (than me) to give an educated opinion that we can follow
<jhenke> well surly somebody longer than me here takes teh decision anyway
<jhenke> just pointing out that the broken by default is in my eyes the worst possible state
<jhenke> better to not ship it and have people install it themselves if needed
<ochosi> i agree, the problem that i see is that many of us have spent lots of time and energy this cycle and are slowly burning up a bit
<ochosi> so if you wanna take care of that issue, try to find someone proficient in ibus (e.g. the bug assignee) and get an opinion/explanation from him
<ochosi> present it to us in some way and help us to take a decision
<brainwash> ochosi: do we plan to add ali1234's title-less window decoration patch?
<jhenke> I think elfy has better connection with the people for that
<brainwash> you don't need any connections
<ochosi> brainwash: if you're referring to the headerbar patch for xfwm4, then i don't think that has received enough testing (which is why i asked Unit193 to put it in his PPA so more people get to it)
<brainwash> ochosi: see my PPA :)
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
<ochosi> jhenke: yup, brainwash is right. you mostly need time/patience and a friendly attitude (bearing in mind that most ppl are doing this for free in their free time)
<brainwash> ochosi: tested with gthumb and it works
<jhenke> ochosi: that was clear already
<jhenke> ;)
<jhenke> still already knowing the people can be an asset
<ochosi> yeah, but time and patience trumps that
<ochosi> because that's how you get to know ppl
<ochosi> anyway, no harm in asking others in here for help
<ochosi> brainwash: good to hear, why not send calls for testing to the ML for stuff in your PPA?
<brainwash> maybe
<brainwash> a bug report would be helpful also
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> and we'd need to add some more support for this in our themes
<brainwash> really?
<ochosi> iirc you can define additional tiles/pixmaps for the top border in headerbars
<ochosi> yeah, otherwise it'll look slightly out of place
<brainwash> any example app?
<ochosi> anyway, i don't consider this branch critical for 14.04 because ubuntu-desktop folks patched away the headerbars in most apps
<ochosi> from the screenshots ali1234 showed, this was general behavior
<ochosi> just to get the same roundness/kerning in headerbar as in xfwm4
<brainwash> tested gthumb with numix.. it was 95% black
<ochosi> feel free to show me a screener of gthumb with that
<ochosi> yeah, i only saw greybird/orion so far
<bluesabre> meeting today?
<guywithaquestion> Hello, when I started 14.04 this morning the volume indicator was missing
<brainwash> guywithaquestion: can you please check settings manager > session and startup > autostart applications
<brainwash> and see if indicator sound is enabled
<guywithaquestion> brainwash: It was unchecked, what would make it so and can I start it without relogging?
<brainwash> guywithaquestion: try the command "exo-open /etc/xdg/autostart/indicator-sound.desktop"
<brainwash> but the entry shouldn't be unchecked in the first place
<brainwash> I can confirm that it is (new user account)
<guywithaquestion> brainwash: Okay, I re-checked it on mine. Starting the indicator gives some errors (like asking for gmusicbrowser.desktop) and sone dbus error
<brainwash> guywithaquestion: but the indicator is now visible, right?
<ochosi> hm, same here (sound-indicator gone after some updates)
<guywithaquestion> brainwash: yeah
<guywithaquestion> I'm lenny from yesterday by the way. Apparently it auto-changed to this
<brainwash> do you want to file a bug report?
<elfy> ochosi knome - I've approaced infinity and jibel in -release about this ibus thing - see if they can point us somewhere, but as it stands, knowing the little I do - I'm with ochosi in removing it
<ochosi> (eh, no, i just realized that might be because i reset the session xfconf channel when doing some tests)
<elfy> jhenke: no - not really I don't
<ochosi> elfy: we could at least disable it by default (if that is easily doable)
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> if nothing get's done it time I guess we could turn it back on for .1 
<ochosi> well, or whenever it works again..
<elfy> and yes - I've lost the volume indicator as well 
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> it really got disabled in autotstart
<elfy> ochosi: yea - I kind of assume that it'll get sorted soon 
<elfy> I've never seen in it autostart
<elfy> s/it in
<ochosi> it
<ochosi> 's been there since they switched to upstart jobs to start indicators
<elfy> mmm - well I never noticed it when I Was having issues, perhaps because it wasn't a clean install
<brainwash> they changed the autostart launcher
<ochosi> how exactly?
<ochosi> OnlyShowIn=Unity? :)
<brainwash> -NotShowIn=Unity;
<brainwash> +OnlyShowIn=Unity;XFCE;GNOME;
<brainwash> +AutostartCondition=GNOME3 unless-session gnome
<brainwash> mmh
<ochosi> so i guess that autostartcondition is what's messed up
<brainwash> delete it and test :)
<ochosi> are you telling me to test something instead of doing that yourself?
<elfy> I couldn't even find the autostart launcher to delete it ... 
<ochosi> bbl
<elfy> I'm not even here
<brainwash> ochosi: yeah, because I cannot right now
<brainwash> that's strange, the launcher located in /usr/share/upstart/xdg/autostart seems to override the normal launcher
<brainwash> and that launcher specifies to be hidden
<bluesabre> activate it in session startup settings, and see which config is copied maybe?
<brainwash> already tested
<brainwash> I've changed the upstart launcher directly
<bluesabre> did you change AutostartCondition?
<brainwash> no, I removed the line "hidden=true"
<brainwash> which unchecks the launcher
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> seems like a silly setting to enable
<brainwash> maybe it's not for the unity session
<bluesabre> does that affect all flavors, including ubuntu?
<brainwash> don't know
<brainwash> all flavors? it's unity or xfce
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> so, the two most important flavors ;)
<brainwash> ah, changing the profile picture prompts me to enter my password
<bluesabre> odd
<brainwash> I guess any changes does
<brainwash> maybe even when not changing anything at all? :D
<bluesabre> it should just be first name, last name, office, home phones
<brainwash> I'll test that
<bluesabre> feel free to investigate and see what I messed up
<brainwash> yep, opened the app and hit apply -> password prompt
<bluesabre> I'll be offline until meeting time today
<bluesabre> lovely
<brainwash> not a big deal
<brainwash> usually one does not change user details every day
<bluesabre> yeah, it works correctly for me
<bluesabre> how did you run/install it?
<brainwash> settings manager and mugshot trunk
<bluesabre> mugshot trunk, how did you install it?
<brainwash> my ppa, daily recipe
<brainwash> I'll install it manually from trunk
<bluesabre> also try running from a terminal
<bluesabre> mugshot -vv to get an idea of whats up
<bluesabre> I'll be back later
<brainwash> bluesabre: mmh, works fine now
<brainwash> maybe my ppa one was outdated
<lenny> Okay, I rebooted with indicator sound checked in the settings. It doesn't seem to have started though.
<lenny> ** (process:2076): WARNING **: media-player-list-mpris.vala:66: unable to find application 'gmusicbrowser.desktop'
<lenny> ** (process:2076): CRITICAL **: volume_control_set_volume_internal: assertion '_tmp1_ == PA_CONTEXT_READY' failed
<lenny> (process:2076): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion 'G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed
<brainwash> lenny: works for me
<lenny> could it be because I uninstalled gmusicbrowser? it seems like it's only a warning in those error messages
<brainwash> that's only a warning, right
<brainwash> but the 2nd line isn't
<brainwash> did you disable pulseaudio?
<lenny> no
<brainwash> can you launch the indicator manually?
<lenny> no
<brainwash> didn't you say that the indicator was visible after starting it manually?
<lenny> yes, it worked before rebooting
<lenny> (and upgrading)
<brainwash> oh
<brainwash> any indicator related upgrades?
<brainwash> or pulseaudio
<lenny> there were loads of upgrades, I didn't check carefully :/
<brainwash> mmh, I suggest that we bother the guys in #ubuntu-desktop
<brainwash> especially tedg
<lenny> that discussion went way above my head
<brainwash> :D
<brainwash> right, bad luck I guess
<lenny> I don't see how it could be an upstart issue if I'm manually launching it with exo-open~ and it fails though
<brainwash> those are two different issues I think
<brainwash> it did work for you before the reboot
<brainwash> so technically it should work always
<brainwash> unless something changed again
<lenny> yeah, I just did the update which made your desktop background go white
<lenny> by just I mean before i rebooted
<brainwash> this one is already fixed upstream, but it will take some time until the fix lands in 14.04
<brainwash> sadly
<brainwash> so enjoy your white background :)
<lenny> My background came back after rebooting :p
<brainwash> it should
<lenny> it even made a quick appearance as it was shutting down :p
<brainwash> so the problem with the disabled sound indicator is now, that we (xubuntu) need to fix it
<brainwash> so that the user does not have to enable it manually
<brainwash> but like you've already mentioned, maybe there is something else broken now too :D
<lenny> yes, it's very reminiscent of the old release  ;)
<lenny> The sound indicator only appeared after editing some file
<brainwash> indeed
<elfy> bluesabre: when I checked this ubuntu was not affected 
<GridCube> :) hey elfy i did the upgrade yesterday
<GridCube> it worked alright
<GridCube> P: theming was broken but thats not something new, i had my panels and things modified so i selected the greybird themes again, should i report that as a bug?
<GridCube> "theme is not selected after upgrade"?
<elfy> thanks GridCube :)
<GridCube> i noticed something today that i havent had the time to check tho. i woke up the computer today and it was on "suspension" state, you know when the drives and the monitor is shut down, not just locked like it was using xscreensaver, i knew it would change to lighlocker so that was not so surprising, but it going to full suspension was, so i wanted to set it up to never do that again and i could not log into the powermanager settings 'cos 
<GridCube> it said those services where not running
<GridCube> i will check again when i get home again and can test the computer, but i wanted to warn you about this, other thing was that it took a whole lot of time to log out, and when i clicked the shutdown icon again it told me something similar, that the shutdown service was not available or something like that, but then it went and log off, so i assume it was just taking its time to do so
<elfy> sorry GridCube was afk
<GridCube> dont worry :)
<elfy> ok - read that now - no-one else has reported anything like that yet
<Justanick> Is there a point, that xfce4-mixer has not been installed? LTS upgrade
<ochosi> xfce4-mixer doesn't work with pulseaudio
<ochosi> so it was replaced by pavucontrol (althouh i thought 12.04 also had pavucontrol)
<Justanick> Does this also offer an applet?
<ochosi> no, we use the sound indicator
<Justanick> Okay. Thanks, it seems to work. 
<Justanick> If I remove the xfce4-mixer package, also the option to add the volume control applet seems to be removed.
<GridCube> Justanick, the sound indicator is integrated to pluging indicators addon
<Justanick> GridCube: The neweset version is installed.
<GridCube> then the sound indicator should be there.
<Justanick> Should. ;) 
<elfy> GridCube: there is a bug
<Justanick> Any useful thing I can do?
<GridCube> oh
<elfy> Justanick: in what regard?
<Justanick> Do you need any information added to the bug? Or is it known and just waiting for a fix?
<elfy> no sure tbh - I only skimmed the backlog here
<Justanick> Okay
<Justanick> Thanks so far
<elfy> GridCube: you need to turn sound indicator on in session - autostart it appears
<ochosi> elfy: btw, happyaron (= aron xu) is OL right now, in case you have time/energy to chat him up about ibus (sry, gotta run again)
<knome> i pinged him in PM and asked to join this channel
<knome> so we have some public logs
<slickymasterWork> knome: Not 100% sure I'll be able to be around for the meeting
<knome> ok
<knome> i guess it doesn't matter too much
<knome> not much people have been around lately,
<knome> there isn't anything to vote on
<knome> there aren't issues where we need a biggish proportion of the team around
<knome> just bugfixes and status updates
<ochosi> yup
<slickymasterWork> unfortunately I have a work meeting in about 10 minutes and don't know how long is going to take
<slickymasterWork> I'll catch up on the logs, when I'll get home
<slickymasterWork> bbl ->
<brainwash> what do the lubuntu guys say about the ibus problem?
<elfy> well the mail I sent to the list was roundly ignored - gilir is aware I mailed him 
<elfy> and I think the only report of it on their tracker is the one I did when I checked to see if it affected them
<brainwash> oh :)
<elfy> yea - oh ... 
<brainwash> at least it works fine in unity :D
<brainwash> maybe the unity session just tells ibus to shut up
<knome> meeting in 50mins... and again, anybody fancy chairing the meeting?
<ochosi> i actually have to take off in 5mins :/
<knome> that's fine...
<knome> the meeting we will have today also looks like an easy one to chair
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> not too many goings on
<jhenke> offical xubuntu team meeting?
<knome> yes, at 19UTC
<elfy> jhenke: it will be 
<elfy> knome: I can't drive the bot nor the agenda and have a bone in my leg
<knome> i have several bones in both of my legs - what's so special about that? ;P
<elfy> you're not a parent then ... 
<jhenke> free to join for everybody, respective can everybody speak there?
<elfy> THAT is the excuse for not doing things - remember it :)
<knome> jhenke, absolutely
<knome> jhenke, the "official" name of the meeting is "xubuntu community meeting"
<knome> jhenke, only voting on some specific issues is restricted for the team, and that's always explicitly mentioned
<jhenke> I see, proably still most of the attendes are those who also normally contribute?
<knome> pretty much so
<jhenke> in #ubuntu-meeting?
<knome> no, on this channel
<jhenke> okay
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings for the agenda and other info
<elfy> ha ha 
<knome> elfy, congrats ;)
<elfy> super speedy elfy 
<jhenke> thanks guys, good to get the info redundand ;)
<Unit193> Wow, this looks to be a loooong meeting. :P
<elfy> brainwash: was just about to do that :p
<Unit193> === Xubuntu community meeting in 6 minutes, at #xubuntu-devel ===
<pleia2> o/
<elfy> tea's cold brb
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  3 19:00:26 2014 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pleia2> Our last meeting info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2014-03-27
<knome> pleia2, <3
<pleia2> #topic #Team Updates
<pleia2> #topic Team Updates
<pleia2> (we'll talk about the ibus thing later)
<pleia2> any updates?
<knome> i don't have much updates
<knome> #info Wallpaper is still waiting for an upload
<pleia2> #info ochosi drafted post about screen locker
<pleia2> those with access, review would be appreciated :)
<knome> #info knome has worked on the website code a bit and planning to land a new revision to production before release
<knome> i've reviewed that article once, can do again when/if more changes are introduced
<elfy> #info [xubuntu-qa] Image testing 64bit - 2
<elfy> #info [xubuntu-qa] Upgrade testing 32bit - 5 total incl 3 LTS to LTS
<elfy> #info [xubuntu-qa] Upgrade testing 64bit - 7 total incl 5 LTS to LTS
<elfy> #info [xubuntu-qa] Repeating upgrade test call - including -users
<pleia2> \o/
<knome> cool, better than i thought ;)
<knome> but still room for improvement
<elfy> pleia2: I looked too - did as I promised ochosi and added a bit re screensaver and ligtlocker
<pleia2> elfy: oh good, those were good additions
<elfy> knome: yea - as I said I'll call again and include -users this time
<pleia2> any other updates?
<knome> well, people have worked on bugs
<knome> i can't see much other news really
 * pleia2 nods
<bluesabre> o/
<pleia2> #topic IBus issue update
<knome> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey everyone
<pleia2> I chatted with knome and elfy about this this morning, elfy is following up with a couple folks dholbach recommended talking to
<pleia2> welcome bluesabre 
<bluesabre> I'm partially here :)
<knome> bluesabre, tell us some tips to being in multiple places at once after the meeting please ;)
<elfy> currently talking to seb bacher 
<pleia2> elfy: yay!
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/1284635
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1284635 in ibus (Ubuntu Trusty) "Keyboard layout changes after login" [High,Confirmed]
<elfy> seb128> elfy, I guess if I say 'patches are welcome' it doesn't help you?
<jhenke> is there a realistic chance the issue get fixed before april 17th?
<pleia2> the bug in question, which pretty much broke on all the flavors
<knome> except kubuntu ;)
<knome> jhenke, it's really hard to assess that, depends how seriously canonical employees are taking the issue (and the policy to have to fix what you broke, even if it doesn't affect you)
<jhenke> knome okay, but I guess that is the core question about the issue
<Unit193> Could just drop it like a hot potato.
<knome> we can avoid the issue by not seeding ibus by default, but that might make some other people less happy
<pleia2> what is it needed for?
<jhenke> I think some languages, especially asian ones, need it to write their letters
<jhenke> e.g. chinese letters, but also vietnamse can be written by it
<pleia2> ah, yeah that's important
<jhenke> as those languages do not nessesary have all their letters mapped to keybard keys
<pleia2> the rest of the Ubuntu CC will help nudge this along if elfy hits a wall
<pleia2> anything else on this topic?
<jhenke> well it seriously breaks xubuntu on default for everybody
<jhenke> but I guess that is known...
 * jhenke hides
<pleia2> indeed, it's bad
<elfy> can those with access - give the QA recap blog article a once over - it's done - except for last minute number crunching
<pleia2> elfy: can they revert the patch that broke it and make them come up with another solution? :)
<bluesabre> elfy: I'll try to take a look tonight
<elfy> cheers
<pleia2> thanks for chasing this down, elfy 
<pleia2> #topic Other business
<pleia2> anything else?
<brainwash> they also changed indicator-sound, so it's now unchecked in autostart applications and the user needs to enable it, otherwise it won't launch automatically on session start
<elfy> we might return to it shortly ... 
<pleia2> "they"?
<brainwash> indicator devs
<brainwash> ubuntu guys
<brainwash> "they"
<knome> why?
<brainwash> I don't know
<bluesabre> definitely not to troll us...
<pleia2> lol
<bluesabre> but since xfce and unity are the only ones that use indicator-sound... it seems odd
<bluesabre> (to my understanding)
<brainwash> we should either stop using the upstart user session or use upstart to launch the indicator stack
 * Unit193 is still confused as to why we use the upstart user session.
<brainwash> or blacklist the upstart launcher for indicator-sound
<brainwash> it's complicated
<brainwash> Unit193: because we did not tell them, that we don't want to use it
<Unit193> brainwash: And the benefit of using it is?  To restart things if they crash?
<brainwash> user upstart job management
<brainwash> not sure if xubuntu/xfce actually benefits from it
<pleia2> anything else we need to talk about?
<pleia2> ok, thanks everyone
<bluesabre> quick q
<pleia2> sure
<bluesabre> has anybody made progress on the ubiquity wallpaper?  I think its assigned to xnox, right?
<bluesabre> or has that already been discussed? :)
<brainwash> ochosi has added a comment to the bug report
<elfy> bug number ?
<brainwash> bug 1284910
<ubottu> bug 1284910 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu Beta 1 and Beta 2 installer has debian background wallpaper" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284910
<lenny> critical? :P
<pleia2> it does look pretty bad
<bluesabre> we're quite partial to our wallpapers :)
<pleia2> not thrilled with so obviously shipping debian branding in xubuntu either
<Unit193> Debian wallpaper doesn't really bother me, kind of funny.
<lenny> dpkg -l | grep debian
<lenny> ii  debianutils                                 4.4                                    amd64        Miscellaneous utilities specific to Debian
<lenny> ii  gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3:amd64             0.10.23.debian-3                       amd64        Fluendo mp3 decoder GStreamer 0.10 plugin
<lenny> ii  gstreamer1.0-fluendo-mp3:amd64              0.10.23.debian-3                       amd64        Fluendo mp3 decoder GStreamer 1.0 plugin
<elfy> is the installed wallpaper issue effectively the same one ?
<lenny> ii  intltool-debian                             0.35.0+20060710.1                      all          Help i18n of RFC822 compliant config files
<pleia2> I love debian, but we aren't debian, it is bad for both of us
<lenny> ii  libcdparanoia0:amd64                        3.10.2+debian-11                       amd64        audio extraction tool for sampling CDs (library)
<lenny> ii  libgdome2-0                                 0.8.1+debian-6                         amd64        DOM level2 library for accessing XML files
<lenny> ii  libparse-debianchangelog-perl               1.2.0-1ubuntu1                         all          parse Debian changelogs and output them in other formats
<lenny> ii  libparted0debian1:amd64                     2.3-18                                 amd64        disk partition manipulator - shared library
<lenny> ii  libsdl1.2debian:amd64                       1.2.15-8ubuntu1                        amd64        Simple DirectMedia Layer
<elfy> lenny: did you really have to do that :|
<lenny> ii  python-debian                               0.1.21+nmu2ubuntu2                     all          Python modules to work with Debian-related data formats
<pleia2> lenny: please stop
<lenny> sorry, didn't mean to do all in seperate
<pleia2> that's not "obvious"
<pleia2> a big wallpaper in our installer is
<lenny> yeah, I guess
<jhenke> lenny we all know that there are plenty of packets with debian references, not the poin here
<bluesabre> first impressions are important
 * pleia2 nods
<Unit193> Sadly, yes, yes they are.
<bluesabre> ok, well I don't have anything else to add
<pleia2> ok, thanks everyone
<knome> thanks pleia2 
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<knome> next meeting?
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  3 19:33:29 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-04-03-19.00.moin.txt
<knome> :P
<elfy> thanks pleia2 
<bluesabre> thanks pleia2
<bluesabre> bbl
<jhenke> thanks pleia2
<pleia2> knome: sorry :)
<pleia2> next week?
<pleia2> I won't be around :P
 * pleia2 pycon
<bluesabre> jealous
<bluesabre> :)
<pleia2> I'm excited, it'll be my first time
<Noskcaj_> I can't attend meetings till the end of the year now. Daylight savings time is gone
<pleia2> even if I have to do booth duty :)
<jhenke> I think next week is the RC date?
<brainwash> just a note: please the stuff from https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
<brainwash> various fixes for different apps
<Justanick> Is there a browsable list of known bugs/not well working xubuntu functions?
<brainwash> Justanick: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs
<knome> elfy, want to run the same test i'm doing?
<elfy> I can certainly try :)
<knome> i'll start with zsyncing the latest iso
<Justanick> Against which package has it to be fill, if the "Aero snapping" of the xfce4-terminal is not working as expected?
<elfy> if I can work out which ones to grab ... 
<brainwash> Justanick: not as expected?
<knome> you either want *amd64* or *i386*
<knome> you can probably guess which you want :P
<elfy> from the ftp page?
<ali1234> xfce4-terminal doesn't always play nice with snapping because it can only be resized in increments of 1 character
<knome> elfy, yep
<ali1234> that can cause anything that tries to rezie windows to blow up
<elfy> knome: this package?	gir1.2-ibus-1.0_1.5.5-1_amd64.deb 
<knome> and everything else with amd64
<knome> hmm, wait
<elfy> ok
<Unit193> elfy: dpkg -l | grep 1.5.5-1ubuntu3  and replace all those with debian versions, generally.
<elfy> okey doke 
<knome> well there you go.
<Justanick> brainwash: If I let snap it to the right or left side of the desktop, there is left free space at the bottom. 
<elfy> :)
<elfy> got it installing now 
<Justanick> ali1234: That may be the point.
<Unit193> The binary packages are listed at the bottom left of: http://packages.qa.debian.org/i/ibus.html
<brainwash> Justanick: so it is working as intended :)
<elfy> Unit193: aah yes - thanks
<Justanick> Yes.
<Unit193> Sure.
<brainwash> ali1234: I've subscribed you to the xfwm4 bug report :P
<ali1234> if it's on launchpad then i'm already subscribed
<brainwash> ok :)
<ali1234> btw regarding titleless window, the screenshots i posted were all numix
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/QMZj3cUP6fT
<Unit193> ali1234: How hackish was the patch that forces old menus?
<ali1234> you mean headeraway?
<ali1234> incredibly hackish
<Unit193> Darn.
<ali1234> gtk developers would probably burn me if they caught me
 * Unit193 doesn't care about GTK devs, they're all mental anyway.
<ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/headeraway/blob/master/preload.c
<elfy> said the kettle ... 
<ali1234> it's a preload library... dynamically patches gtk at runtime
<ali1234> you call header_bar_new and it gives you back a gtk_box collection instead
<ali1234> in a sense it is not more hackish than the way ubuntu menuproxy works :)
<Unit193> Doesn't sound too bad, if more than gthumb needed it I'd use it (once I figured out how. :P )
<ali1234> you compile it into a .so using the makefile then you do LD_PRELOAD=/path/to/library.so gthumb
<ali1234> or if you are totally crazy put the variable into your environment
<Unit193> Thanks, this sounds like fun. :D
<elfy> knome: well - I did that - get the same problem :(
<elfy> so I wonder why, if debian are using xfce as default that it's not shown up there
<elfy> knome: possibly it is https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=734985
<ubottu> Debian bug 734985 in ibus "[ibus] ibus does not respect /etc/default/keyboard XKBOPTIONS" [Normal,Open]
<knome> the reporter has older ibus versions though
<elfy> yea - but it's definitely the same issue 
<elfy> and the link to the debian forum - guy is using xfce
<knome> hmh, not sure
<knome> xkboptions seems to be irrelevant to kb layout
<elfy> yep - so no further forward really
<knome> nope
<knome> expect you are able to reproduce with debian packages in ubuntu
<elfy> did you get them to install at all
<knome> i haven't got so far
<elfy> yes - same issue with debian packages in todays daily
<knome> i guess the next thing is install and boot debian
<knome> and see if you have a similar problem
<knome> though i guess the installation process is different
<knome> might still be worth checking
<elfy> not a problem - I can do that 
<Unit193> Other than the fact I have no idea what the problem is, I do have a Debian VM.
<elfy> testing or stable
<Unit193> Erm, testing or unstable.
<elfy> Unit193: ok - we're trying to see if the same error is there as here for bug 1284635
<ubottu> bug 1284635 in ibus (Ubuntu Trusty) "Keyboard layout changes after login" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284635
<Unit193> elfy: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2536196/debian7testing.ova.gz
<elfy> what's that?
<elfy> 3Gb file ... 
<Unit193> Debian testing, already setup with Xfce and stuff.  US defaults though.
<elfy> yea - I want to install it with a UK keyboard layout 
<elfy> thanks :)
<jhenke> good night folks
<elfy> night jhenke 
<Unit193> Installing ibus now, already have the system set to en_GB.
<elfy> ta
<Unit193> Hah, "Wastebasket" :P
<elfy> :D
<ali1234> "Rubbish Bin"
<elfy> ali1234: in Places I see Wastebasket, in Thunar Rubbish Bin
<ali1234> if you are using en_GB and you see "Wastebasket" it's a bug
<ali1234> places plugin has this bug
<elfy> I have that bug 
<elfy> Unit193: so? if kbd layout is UK what happens on the desktop - sets to US?
<Unit193> (I had to remove ibus again, to see what keys might be different and if I actually hit the bug or have no idea what I'm doing/know what keys are supposed to be different. :P )
<Unit193> Yeah, ibus screwed up #
<elfy> this is not what we wanted ;)
<Unit193> Indeed not, would have been nicer if it was an Ubuntu bug.
<Justanick> With the last updates for a few minutes the wallpaper has been reset with a grey colour.
<Unit193> ^
<elfy> Justanick: yes - known issue 
<Unit193> Justanick: Open terminal: killall xfdesktop   and it's fixed.
<elfy> bug 1302101
<ubottu> bug 1302101 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Desktop background turns to a dirty white color after switching theme" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302101
<elfy> Unit193: yep  - would have been better for us 
<Unit193> elfy: You want to tell seb or confirm?
<Justanick> Okay
<elfy> confirming
<elfy> at a guess I still think it is that bug I found on debian ^^
<Unit193> elfy: Or, that it doesn't honor the file /etc/default/keyboard at all.
<brainwash> wow, a "new" hint :)
<elfy> no idea - as knome said that doesn't appear to do much 
<brainwash> we need to fix this stupid thing
<brainwash> ibus exit
<elfy> that's not what knome said ... 
<knome> :P
<elfy> the bug is about xkboptions - this issue appears to be about xkblayout
<Unit193> elfy: I was pointing at the file, not the specific line. :D
<elfy> bah 
<elfy> so I have no idea what I set the password too lol
<knome> hah
<Unit193> wheresmybloomintea
<elfy> lol
<elfy> and the keyboard isn't working at all in vbox debian recovery mode ... 
<elfy> too late for mucking about - reinstall it with password of sodthis
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> knome: so installed debian - and # is # and in the right place when I have logged in
<elfy> but I bet that's the older ibus
<elfy> sigh - said it was too late :(
<elfy> really didn't want to have to do a long winded install ... 
<knome> hm?
<elfy> that was time well saved :|
<elfy> installing testing now 
<elfy> knome: so - assuming that once I've got this installed and confirm the issue is there - a) tell seb b) we'll need to decide what we do
<knome> we could/should ask the debian maintainers if they have time to look at it
<elfy> until I know for sure the issue exists there it's all guesswork - but given that debian ship with xfce as default I don't understand what they're not seeing the issue 
<knome> mh
<ochosi> does debian install/use ibus by default?
<elfy> I can't answer that ochosi 
<ochosi> just infering that this could be why nobody else has noticed
<ochosi> i also don't have any clue how ibus is configured by default
<ochosi> and whether we should pro-actively do something about that
<knome> i'm off for tonight, see you all later
<knome> elfy, let's be in touch tomorrow
<elfy> ok
<elfy> working till 12UTC - will post in here later though
<elfy> knome: ok so - debian testing does not use ibus by default
<elfy> install ibus into it and then # becomes \
<ochosi> huh
<ochosi> well that's good to know
<elfy> yep
<elfy> ochosi: that was were seb left us - checking to see what the state of it in debian was - whether it was an ubuntu change that was the issue - which it seems to not be, the chances of getting it looked at now are pretty slim I think
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i read the backlog
<ochosi> so the course is clear then
<ochosi> either remove it or find a way to disable it by default
<elfy> yep - seems to be 
<ochosi> and blog about how ppl who need it can get it back
 * ochosi shrugs
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> it's a known issue - so it will be on there
<ochosi> now we only need to find a dev/uploader to execute those changes for us
<elfy> yea ... 
<elfy> can dholbach do that?
<ochosi> i already told knome, but from tomorrow onwards i won't be around much until the release
<ochosi> he can, but he needs at least a MR
<elfy> ok - thanks for letting me know
<ochosi> i guess we have two options
<elfy> right ok - so dholbach will do it I am sure - pleia2 and I were talking to him about this issue earlier
<ochosi> 1) drop it from the seed (i.e. not install it anymore by default)
<ochosi> 2) find a way to disable it by default
<ochosi> do you have any idea how to achieve 2) without doing 1)?
<elfy> absolutely none at all 
<ochosi> me neither
<elfy> it's all gone a bit horrible in the last 100metres here ... 
<elfy> I'd favour us not seeding it 
<ochosi> yeah, the indicators not autostarting anymore is also nasty
<elfy> yea - that's what I mean 
<elfy> and the wallpapers
<ochosi> yup, it looked like a solid release
<elfy> and the new white thing with icons
<ochosi> and we got a lot done
<ochosi> new white thing?
<elfy> absolutely did 
<elfy> the bug when you chane icons/themes 
<ochosi> and then what happens?
<ochosi> desktop wallpaper disappears?
<elfy> you know about this - you confirmed it
<elfy> yea
<elfy> that one 
<ochosi> ah right, but that's fixed already
<ochosi> only a matter of getting the fix uploaded
<elfy> ok - not seen the fix come through
<ochosi> so i'm not worried about that at all
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> yeah, not uploaded yet
<ochosi> there might be a release tomorrow or on the weekend
<ochosi> then the upload
<ochosi> so that's straightforward
<elfy> so ibus seems to be a case of not using it - simplish I assume
<elfy> the indicators is the nasty one now I think
<ochosi> yeah, if we get lots of complaints then we'll at least know that it *is* used by ppl for somethign :D
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> brainwash: have you tried to add that loginctl command yet?
<elfy> right - I've got to crash now - night all 
<ochosi> night elfy 
<elfy> ochosi: I'll see you when I see you then I guess :)
<brainwash> good night
<brainwash> ochosi: hardcoded?
<brainwash> or via a wrapper or autostart entry?
<brainwash> see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/src/lightdm-gtk-greeter.c#L389
<ochosi> well how should i know what you've tested?
<ochosi> just tell what you did test so far :p
<brainwash> opened a terminal and typed the command
<ochosi> autostart entry seems to make sense, because then ppl have a way of disabling all of them (instead of only hiding all of them). that's a bit better
<brainwash> and we need to make sure that the services will actually terminate on session logout
<ochosi> yeah, that's a bit more meh
<ochosi> so if we patch that into xfce4-session, then ppl cant deactivate indicators anymore, unless they uninstall them
<brainwash> they can also override the .conf files
<brainwash> or use gsettings to disable some of them
<ochosi> "...then ppl cant *easily* deactivate indicators anymore..."
<brainwash> it will be easy
<brainwash> after people have created tons of forum threads
<brainwash> :D
<brainwash> just copy&paste
<brainwash> what about patching -session to ignore the upstart session stuff?
<brainwash> basically hardcode the autostart launcher path
<brainwash> and not use any env var
<brainwash> sadly all the different solutions need testing
<brainwash> and we are running out of time
<ochosi> heading off to bed, night all
<brainwash> good night
<gridcube_> alright, i can replicate the bug
<gridcube_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1302244
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1302244 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager-settings can not be launched after the session comes back from a suspension" [Undecided,New]
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-04
<elfy> knome: ibus issue is now triaged it seems
<elfy> not that it means much - it's not fixed :p
<knome> so...
<knome> how did it end up triaged?
<knome> oh, right
<elfy> no idea - aron xu changed it between us talking about it in -dekstop and 02:55 
<knome> last comment in our bug is interesting
<elfy> and likely to make them do something
<elfy> if nothing else I can understand why debian haven't noticed the issue as we did - they don't install it default 
<knome> yep...
<Unit193> Check popcon in Debian.
<knome> how do people who need ibus use debian then?
<elfy> no idea
<Unit193> Set it in ibus too?
<elfy> http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=ibus
<ali1234> sometimes i wonder how anyone uses debian for anything
<elfy> not many takers
<elfy> knome: my position on this is - if we can wait and still get people at the last minute to deal with unseeding it then let's do that, if we don't have confidence in doing it at the last minute we should start unseeding it now
<knome> we can wait until 9th
<elfy> my position won't change unless triaged changes to fix release :)
<Unit193> We don't need to ship the jockey.desktop file anymore: https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060543
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1060543 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Additional Drivers is not discoverable in Quantal" [Critical,In progress]
<knome> ahhahahaha Unity193
 * knome coughs
<knome> Unity193, want to do a merge proposal to drop that off of our packages?
<Unit193> I could.
<knome> ta
<Unit193> (Not now.)
<knome> yep. not expecting "right away"
<knome> and it must be awfully late there too
<Unit193> 03:10
<elfy> iss that a real time?
<knome> lol
<jhenke> morning folks
<jhenke> i guess everybody has seen the ibus bug status change last night?
<ochosi> yeah, but that doesn't mean anything
<jhenke> it means the assigned person has at least aknowledged he is responsible ;)
<ochosi> and the likelihood of that getting fixed for release is tending more towards 0
<ochosi> elfy: talked to seb128 already?
<jhenke> hoffnung stirbt zuletzt (hope dies last)
<ochosi> well i think we won't count on that and rather remove it until it works again, at least that would be my proposed solution
<knome> ochosi, did talk
<knome> ochosi, the response is more or less "i'm sorry, but we can't do much"
<ochosi> well yesterday
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i read the backlog
<knome> in an understanding way..
<ochosi> but i meant today
<knome> ah
<ochosi> because now we know it's also borked in debian
<ochosi> so chances of getting it fixed = 0
<ochosi> or very low at least
<knome> yes..
<ochosi> i'd inform seb about it
<knome> unless debian maintainers/upstream fixes it
<ochosi> and then ask happyaron about the problems of removing it
<knome> do we know who that is?
<knome> ^deb maint./us?
<ochosi> he's the assignee to the ibus ug
<ochosi> bug
<ochosi> in ubuntu
<knome> no, i wasn't asking that
<knome> my question is:
<knome> do we know who the debian maintainers/upstream developers are?
<ochosi> no
<ochosi> at least i don't
<knome> i think it might be worth to poke that way
<ochosi> but i'd honestly think we should take care of the indicators first
<ochosi> seems a bigger issue to me
<ochosi> and btw, about those, you could repeat your last night's arguments
<knome> well sure, but the ibus one is pretty nasty as well..
<ochosi> breaking stuff for others a few days before release...
<knome> i could, but what would be the point?
<ochosi> well the ibus we can remove and add back later
<knome> i tried to explain that to seb128
<ochosi> yeah, i wasn't really suggesting that ;)
<ochosi> yeah, his arguments were understandable
<knome> if paid work is overriding fixing flavors, fixing flavors will never happen
<ochosi> although with indicators it's slightly different
<ochosi> cause it's all under their control
<knome> even if there was a policy of "you break it, you fix it"
<Unit193> So how do you start the sound package again?
<ochosi> maybe ali1234 has a good idea how to fix this
<ali1234> fix what?
<ochosi> Unit193: you can simply tick the checkbox in the session autostart tab
<ochosi> ali1234: the indicators aren't autostarting anymore
<ali1234> yell at tedg
<ochosi> because we'll most likely have to make our session emit the signals
<ochosi> to start and end them
<ali1234> well yes
<ochosi> at least after discussing with Laney last night this seemed the most reasonable solution
<ali1234> that's the idea
<ochosi> but our session doesn't do that
<ali1234> it's the same as what you do in lightdm
<ali1234> one line, exec init --emit-signal or whatever
<Unit193> Right, that's what I did last time, edited the desktop file.
<ochosi> i know, but 1) i didnt do that part of the greeter, and 2) i don't know the session code at all
<ali1234> it should be put into the indicator plugin
<ochosi> ali1234: also, couldnt the indicator plugin do it?
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> well that codebase i know even less :)
<ochosi> so yeah, if it's just one line, can we add that to the plugin?
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> it should stop them too
<ali1234> except that there's no way to do that yet
<ochosi> (btw, "we" is always you in this case ;))
<ochosi> aha?
<ochosi> i thought sending the -end signal?
<ali1234> i can do a quick patch but you'll have to chase whoever to get it applied
<ochosi> that is ok
<ochosi> i think we can try to force Laney or tedg :)
<ali1234> btw this probably means tedg finally uploaded the upstart fixes
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> well, not all of them it seems
<ochosi> but most
<ochosi> i mean:
<ochosi> some of them haven't landed yet
<ochosi> but yes, he has uploaded them it seems
<ali1234> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/src/lightdm-gtk-greeter.c#L386
<ochosi> yeah, i know
<ochosi> but as i said, i didn't write that part of the code (and didn't even want to have it in 14.04 at first :)), so...
<ochosi> kalgasnik was doing all the work on the indicators
<ochosi> so we have to shut them down in the plugin now by sending them a sigterm (since you implied the -end signal doesn't work yet)?
<ali1234> i don't thin -end even exists, sending terminate to the process is the correct way to do it
<ali1234> hmm... what happens if we have two panels?
<ali1234> i guess i will find out
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> you mean >1 indicator-plugins?
<ochosi> i guess you need to ask first whether the service has been started already
<ochosi> and only start it if not
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7202310/
<ali1234> ochosi: ^
<ali1234> this is untested
<ali1234> we could also just put "init --user --startup-event indicator-services-start" into the session autostart
<ochosi> ali1234: you mean as a launcher?
<ochosi> the problem i see with that is that indicators will always get launched, even if the indicator-plugin isn't used
<ochosi> it's just a small drawback, because ppl can obviously also uninstall the indicator-packages
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7202334/
<ali1234> that should do it
<ali1234> builds but not tested
<ochosi> ok, then ideally let's get brainwash to put it in a package in his PPA so ppl can test it
<ochosi> so i presume that this'll only affect indicators that have upstart jobs
<ali1234> i don't have a /usr/local/ panel at the moment so i can't test if it works at all
<ochosi> the others will still get a desktop file in xdg/autostart
<ali1234> yes
<ochosi> ok, sounds good
<ali1234> hang on let me upload it to xfce git
<ochosi> anyhow, i'll test it in advance
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> that makes sense
<ochosi> if it works we can also ask andrzejr_ to merge the patch
<ochosi> but anyway, even uploading this as a xubuntu patch should be fine
<Unit193> ochosi: When you poke them again, poke about actually tagging a release?
<ochosi> poke whom?
<ali1234> ochosi: uploaded. should appear in a few minutes
<Unit193> ochosi: Whoever has the power, I'd think tedge.
<knome> good idea Unity193
<ochosi> wait, Unity193? who's that?
<ochosi> knome: i think about the wallpaper upload, you could ask dholbach (same as for removing ibus from the seed)
<brainwash> ochosi: so simply disabling it is not possible?
<ochosi> not sure yet
<ochosi> btw, there's something for your PPA
<ochosi> http://git.xfce.org/users/ajb/xfce4-indicator-plugin/
<ochosi> would be nice if you could put that one up there for testing
<brainwash> ok
<ochosi> ty
<ochosi> ideally this will solve our headaches with the latest indicator-changes
<knome> ochosi, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1060543/comments/11
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1060543 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Additional Drivers is not discoverable in Quantal" [Critical,Fix released]
<ochosi> right, so we should drop our desktop file then?
<ochosi> but that's in x-d-s
<knome> that too
<knome> but that was re: Unity193 :P
<knome> huzzah
<ochosi> huhu
<ochosi> 11:11  dholbach$ hiya
<ochosi> 11:12  dholbach$ I don't know what just happened, but my keyboard settings changed to english on their own
<ochosi> 11:12  dholbach$ do we have a bug report for that somewhere? anything I can do to debug?
<knome> yep
<knome> btw,
<ochosi> harhar
<knome> can you prepare the wallpaper and ibus stuff
<knome> eg. have the dsc and tarball
<knome> i can then poke him, or you can then poke him :P
<ochosi> not really, have no idea how to do that sort of packaging stuff
<knome> well i asked if you bluesabre and friends could do it
<ochosi> all i can do is push the wall incl the changelog to xubuntu-artwork
<knome> i have no idea either
<ochosi> Unit193: i already tagged the new release in the changelog and added the wallpaper, what else?
<ochosi> https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/trusty
<ochosi> knome: i think that actually dholbach could take it from there
<ochosi> he also did that for x-d-s
<ochosi> and that time the stuff wasn't even merged yet
<ochosi> so this time it's one degree better ;)
<knome> well poke him
<knome> why do you need me?
<ochosi> let me parrot that back to you :)
<brainwash> looks like there was/is some systemd mess up 
<brainwash> now is the perfect time to break things :)
<brainwash> ochosi: done
<ochosi> thanks brainwash 
<ochosi> i'll send a quick call for testing to the ML
<brainwash> any news about the autostart entries?
<brainwash> or will they stay visible?
<ochosi> that is the least of worries
<ochosi> let's first get them to autostart again
<ochosi> ali1234, brainwash: indicator-plugin upstart fix seems to work fine!
<ali1234> cool. needs to test with two plugins (two panels) though
<ochosi> do they have to be on separate panels?
<ali1234> i'm not sure what will happen if you have two and remove one
<ali1234> well, no probably not
<ali1234> just two plugins
<ochosi> ah, you mean cause then one will kill the indicator :)
<ali1234> but normal use case they would be on different panels
<ochosi> well that's not a problem
<ochosi> users can then restart their session to the worst
<ali1234> i think it should work
<ochosi> i just added one
<ochosi> and then removed it again
<ochosi> no breakage
<ali1234> it should work if upstart is sensible :)
<ali1234> we're going to have to fix this all over again for systemd you know
<ochosi> or do you want me to add one and then restart my session and then remove it to be sure?
<ochosi> yeah, but not for 14.04
<ali1234> try restarting the panel too
<ali1234> it's going to run upstart whenever the plugin loads, and kill it whenever it stops
<ochosi> took them <1sec to show up
<ochosi> but obviously they got restarted when i restarted the panel
<ali1234> make sure you do not have like 20 copies of upstart running
<ochosi> i have a few upstart-dbus-br processes
<ochosi> (3
<ochosi> )
<ochosi> other than that it looks sane
<ali1234> seems good then
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> also tried with multiple panel restarts
<ochosi> and multiple plugins
<ochosi> and adding/removing them
<ochosi> it's pretty solid
<ali1234> what if you kill indicator-sound-service
<ali1234> or whatever it is called
<ali1234> does it restart?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> it restarts
<ali1234> awesome
<slickymasterWork> hey ochosi, can you please pass me the link to your light locker article?
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> ochosi: http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/seit-letztem-update-keine-lautstaerkenanzeige-/
<brainwash> :)
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: it's on xubuntu.org, so you have to be in the web-team for reviewing
<brainwash> ochosi: we don't have a bug report for this issue yet, or?
<ochosi> no, i don't think so
<slickymasterWork> ah, ok ochosi 
<ochosi> ali1234: well done. this is really solid! thanks!
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: if you want i can mail it to you and you can mail back your review/thoughts
<slickymasterWork> I'd appreciate tthat ochosi, thanks
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: the mail is slickymaster at gmail
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: thanks for that
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> the formatting is obviously borked like tht
<ochosi> although you can save the mail as .html file and then use a browser
<slickymasterWork> that won't be a problem ochosi 
<brainwash_> bug 1302489
<ubottu> bug 1302489 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Multiple permission issues after today's update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302489
<ochosi> nice caleidoscope of a few recent issues
<ochosi> gotta go, have a nice day everyone!
<jhenke> cu ochosi
<brainwash> ochosi, ali1234: starting the app indicator via upstart seems to be slower for me than using the autostart entry, so nm-applet always loads as normal tray icon
<ali1234> that's because it starts later
<ali1234> there's not much i can do about that
<brainwash> start the app indicator via autostart?
<ali1234> all you have to do is start the app indicator before nm-applet
<brainwash> that is obvious, but how should we do it?
<ali1234> i don't know
<ali1234> ask tedg how he'd do it :)
<ali1234> if you start indicator-application unconditionally, then you won't get a nm-applet icon if the indicator-plugin is not loaded
<brainwash> but we did it like this all the time?
<brainwash> !
<ali1234> previously we used dbus activation
<ali1234> everything was loaded on demand
<ali1234> and it all just worked
<ali1234> when we get systemd we can go back to doing it that way
<ali1234> the problem is upstart sucks
<brainwash> should we patch xfce4-session to hide autostart launchers which contain "nodisplay=true"?
<ali1234> i don't know
<ali1234> i think that is supposed to hide icons from menus
<ali1234> check the xdg-desktop specs...
<brainwash> I think so too
<ali1234> http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s05.html
<ali1234> NoDisplay means "this application exists, but don't display it in the menus".
<brainwash> ali1234: or we request to remove Xfce from "onlyshowin="
<brainwash> indicator-session was launched, but Xfce is not even listed in "onlyshowin="
<ali1234> i don't know what problem you are referring to here
<brainwash> indicator autostart entries visible in settings manager > session and startup
<ali1234> how would removing xfce from onlyshowin= help with that?
<brainwash> it will hide the entries
<ali1234> hmm
<brainwash> and it works
<ali1234> okay
<ali1234> but how do they get started then?
<brainwash> all my indicators still load
<ali1234> okay, that's a bug then
<brainwash> with your patch
<ali1234> mostly likely that will happen
<ali1234> probably still some pending patches
<ali1234> you'd have to ask tedg about this
<brainwash> so you mean, that if we remove XFCE from showonlyin, the indicator should not start anymore?
<ali1234> it should not be in both
<ali1234> i don't know why it is in both
<ali1234> tedg will know though
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> ali1234: some good news in bug 1302571
<ubottu> bug 1302571 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Panel 0 xfce4-indicator-plugin misbehavior in Trusty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302571
<brainwash> isn't indicator-power only visible if it detects a battery?
<slickymasterWork> brainwash, ochosi, switching themes causes the desktop wallpaper to disappear
<brainwash> right
<brainwash> old story :P
<slickymasterWork> is there a bug for it? which?
<brainwash> bug 1302101
<ubottu> bug 1302101 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Desktop background turns to a dirty white color after switching theme" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302101
<slickymasterWork> thanks
<brainwash> patched xfdesktop available from https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
<brainwash> I guess that it will take some time until the fix lands in trusty
<brainwash> ali1234: the problem is that indicator-applications does not start, once I start it manually nm-applet will switch to the indicator area
<elfy> afternoon all
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy 
<elfy> slickymasterWork: how's things - not seen you this week 
<slickymasterWork> swamped in work
<elfy> I guessed :)
<slickymasterWork> I've been sort of in/out
<elfy> I've seen that :)
<GridCube> elfy, did you saw, Bug 1302244
<ubottu> bug 1302244 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager-settings can not be launched after the session comes back from a suspension" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302244
<GridCube> today i could not wake up my netbook and i had to force a shutdown :(
<pleia2> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/04/xubuntu-14-04-default-wallpaper
<pleia2> nice work :)
<brainwash> woot
<brainwash> some of them will be surprised by the classic Xfce wallpaper after starting the session :)
<brainwash> and the debian one during installation :D
<brainwash> GridCube: I guess xfpm crashes at some point
<slickymasterWork> it it had a more richer palette, it would almost be considered a Kandinsky work pleia2 
<brainwash> GridCube: kill xfce4-power-manager, open a terminal and run "xfce4-power-manager --debug"
<brainwash> then suspend the system
<GridCube> brainwash, will do when i get home and have access to my computer
<GridCube> :)
<elfy> pleia2: so the fail wallpaper during beta2 was just buttering us up then :p
<elfy> GridCube: I did see it fleetingly but not looked much tbh over the last day or so 
<GridCube> elfy, :) its alright 
<elfy> thanks :)
<GridCube> P: I would just love to see if someone else can replicate it XD
<elfy> GridCube: I'm sure I have seen someone else talking about that
<elfy> brainwash: you seen this one? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2214941
<brainwash> should be resolved already
<brainwash> up-to-date system required :)
<lenny> just experienced  (According to the bug report tool) Bug 1283741 . It happened after waking up the screen and logging back in. Yesterday It just went black and I had to force reboot. Today it went black, brought me back to login screen and let me log in again.
<ubottu> bug 1283741 in linux (Ubuntu) "[Dell XPS M1210] BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at (null)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1283741
<Unit193> ochosi: There's the pot/po files too, but not sure you need to edit them.  I don't think there would be two enteries, one would overwrite the other, no?
<GridCube> lenny, care to test something for me?
<lenny> GridCube: sure
<GridCube> can you send your computer to suspension and wake it back?
<lenny> yeah. brb
<lenny> back
<lenny> Everything seems to work alright.
<RFleming> WB
<GridCube> lenny, now try to open xfce4-power-manager-settings from a terminal please
<lenny> GridCube: done
<GridCube> it worked?
<lenny> yes
<GridCube> :( then your issue is different than mine
<lenny> Okay, has you webbrowser been open when your computer went to sleep?
<GridCube> mmhm, yes
<lenny> That's the only difference from the other times and this test that I did just now. Try with yours closed
<GridCube> will do later
<GridCube> thanks for the idea
<lenny> Good luck :)
<knome> slickymaster, you about?
<Unit193> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds/65995/testcases/1303/results <--- This is why icons are a dumb idea.
<Unit193> Aren't the desktop icons a bit large?
<pleia2> could you be a bit more specific?
<Unit193> 48 seems a bit large and oversized, I'd think 32 would be normal.
<brainwash> 48px is the new default
<brainwash> and smaller grid boxes
<brainwash> so it looks similar to thunar
<pleia2> Unit193: that link was to the testcases page, which has tooons of bugs ;)
<Unit193> pleia2: Yes, and you have to mouse over each and every one to find out what they are, and the edge ones go off screen. :/
<pleia2> oh, I thought your two comments were related
<pleia2> desktop icons and bug tracker
<Unit193> Hah, nooo.  My mind doesn't work like that. :--D
<pleia2> mouseover is annoying, but the edge ones don't go off the screen in chrome
<Unit193> Firefox, latest here.
<knome> Unit193, i've committed a fix for the situation where bug tooltips do not fit in the viewport
<Unit193> OK, that'll help some, thanks.
<Unit193> I take it I can't get a text list of bugs with the icons next to, rather than instead of?
<knome> Unit193, i'll be looking at several visual enhancements for the tracker later, but i'm waiting to get the pending ones in first
<Unit193> Great, thanks.
<knome> no problem
<knome> clearly, we need the list of bugs to be filterable
<knome> at least by which product the bug was filed from
<knome> eg. only show bugs filed from xubuntu with this testcase
<lenny> Is moving between workspaces with the scroll wheel no longer a thing?
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> (referring to knome)
<brainwash> lenny: it can be enabled, but it's disabled by default starting with 14.04
<lenny> brainwash: Probably a good thing. It confused me when I started out. But now I'm used to it, how do I re-enable it?
<brainwash> settings manager > window manager tweaks
<brainwash> I think
<brainwash> I cannot check right now
<lenny> I'll explore :) 
<lenny> settings manager > window manager tweaks > Workspaces, thanks.
<brainwash> lenny: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/xfwm4_disable_scrollevents/+merge/209545
<brainwash> if you want to know why this change was made
<lenny> Thanks. As I said I agree with the change, just happen to like it myself.
<knome> Unit193, if you have other bugs or improvements you'd like to see in the tracker, file them in LP, and i'll probably get to them
<Unit193> knome: Mmm, didn't think the first was something $others were interested in.
<knome> text list?
<knome> i'm very interested in that
<knome> because it allows a much quicker overview
<knome> i hate having to hover over >5 bugs
<Unit193> There was too many, I skipped that part.
<Unit193> (I did happen to find the Debian background one though!)
<knome> heh, yeah
<knome> i also wrote a new cool feature for the tracker...
<knome> d'n'd a bug link to any spot on the bug text field, and it's added and formatted nicely to the list
<lderan> awesome
<knome> if we had a bug list, you could simply have a button for each bug, and clicking that would add it to the list
<slickymaster> knome: I am now
<tedxubu> hello. is anyone available to walk me through the upgrade image testing request elfy posted?
<knome> slickymaster, i'm going off, but if you are around tomorrow, we could look at the tour page
<slickymaster> I'll be around tomorrow knome. I'm with my kid and the weather will be awfull, so we'll be stucked at home
<knome> tedxubu, pretty sure someone can, just wait patiently
<knome> slickymaster, that's not good... :)
<knome> slickymaster, well, for you and the kid
<slickymaster> yeah, he'll have to play indoors which is kind of meh
<knome> football indoors? please dad!
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> we'd love it
<slickymaster> s/we/he
<knome> lol
<slickymaster> but I'll be around for sure, in the afternoon
<knome> better stick to less damage-prone variants, like the board version ;)
<knome> yep, let's see if i'm around at that time
<knome> if not, then no problem
<slickymaster> next wek won't be so crazy at work for me, so I'll have some more free time during the day
<slickymaster> if we don't manage to meet tomorrow that is
<knome> mhm
<knome> it's not critical; as long as we do it before release
<slickymaster> yes, but I think we'll be safe
<knome> absolutely
<knome> i'll notice you when i'm getting nervous :P
<knome> which is far down the road
<slickymaster> there won't be a need for that
<knome> yep ;)
<knome> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/04/xubuntu-14-04-default-wallpaper
<lderan> \o/
<Noskcaj_> Should i make the merge proposal for the xfwm4 maximise fix now or does it need more testing
<slickymaster> I saw it, I commented with pleia2 that if the color palette was richer it was almost like some early Kandinsky's work
<Noskcaj_> I  also have some thunar patches ready to merge too. http://paste.ubuntu.com/7205154/
<knome> slickymaster, haha, well thanks :)
<Noskcaj_> nice wallpaper knome 
<slickymaster> I assumed that at some point you were thinking about Bauhaus school
<knome> ta ta
<knome> actually the development was quite straightforward
<slickymaster> hey Noskcaj_ how are you?
<knome> i got the idea in my head one day, then it took me more days to think about it, then i just "did it"
<RFleming> knome, came up as my default this afternoon :)
<knome> getting the colors/the rest of the wallpaper took longer time to *decide*
<slickymaster> it's really awsome knome, and you do deserve to be congratulated on it
<Noskcaj_> slickymaster, Pretty good. Just wishing that stupid dev pc i'm trying to make would work. How are you?
<knome> glad you like it, and happy it was worth the UIFe...
<slickymaster> thankfull that the week is over, thanks for asking
<Unit193> knome: And the bonus wallpapers! ;)
<slickymaster> that UIFe id refused could start a riot among the Xubuntu ranks :)
<slickymaster> s/id/if
<knome> Unit193, bogus? ;P
<lderan> knome, aye it is very good :)
 * knome bows again
<knome> and, if you have other colors in mind, feel free to propose
<knome> we are planning to do a blog article about alternative schemes
<knome> one option: http://temp.knome.fi/.w/trusty-yellow.png
<knome> another WIP for Unit193: http://temp.knome.fi/.w/black.png
<slickymaster> I like Unit193's
<slickymaster> sober and impressive
<knome> it has a banding problem though
<slickymaster> the elipses in the background?
<knome> yes
<slickymaster> kinda like those
<knome> i guess it's a matter of taste
<knome> and the worse monitor you have, the less you will notice it
<slickymaster> remembers me those posters from the 70's
<lderan> very true
<lderan> do like the yellow one tho
<knome> the yellow palette is courtesy of simon
<knome> to not take all the credit ;)
<slickymaster> not as much as the blue and the dark ones
<knome> i like the yellow one too, but not as much as a wallpaper
<knome> doing a wallpaper in authentic 70's style is much harder than accidental banding problems :P
<slickymaster> yeah, I know
<knome> but it's an interesting idea
<slickymaster> but the first thing that crossed my mind was those blackxpoitation movie posters
<knome> doesn't ring a bell
<slickymaster> knome: didn't you ever saw Shaft
<slickymaster> ?
<slickymaster> that's a typical example of a blacksploitation movie
<slickymaster> Tranatino sort of celebrated and paid a tribute to that genre of cinema in Jackie Brown
<slickymaster> or better, with his movie Jackie Brown
<knome> slickymaster, i'm bad with movies :)
<brainwash> Noskcaj_: the menu-icon patch for thunar adds icons for "open in new tab/window"
<slickymaster> but we shouldn't be discussing this were. Xubuntu lead might show up and kick us all the way till -off
<knome> hah :P
<brainwash> Noskcaj_: so it only replaces the generic folder icon for "open with default application"
<brainwash> Noskcaj_: the xfwm4 maximize patch works for me, but I did not open any special/weird windows yet
<Noskcaj_> brainwash, I think the xfwm4 one is mostly targeted at uniquity
<brainwash> nah, mostly targeting dialog windows :)
<brainwash> actually non-resizable windows
<brainwash> and the installer window seems to be one of them
<Noskcaj_> well yeah. Ubiquity is just where i found it
<brainwash> and what about abiword? :P
<brainwash> we got 3 patches
<brainwash> or new stable release + 1 patch (about dialog icon fix)
<brainwash> Noskcaj_: we also have a patch for garcon https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10709
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10709 in Applications Menu "Some icons not being displayed after upgrade to xfce4-panel-4.11.0" [Normal,New]
<Noskcaj_> ok. I'll do the garcon one now. As i said before, you should probably talk to the debian maintainer for abword
<Noskcaj_> brainwash, I'll add OvenWerk1's patch for garcon too. bug 1213518
<ubottu> bug 1213518 in garcon (Ubuntu) "xfce-applications.menu merges in a non-standard way. default overrides merge" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1213518
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> mmh
<brainwash> "The way the .menu is currently done matches what GNOME is doing"
<brainwash> is it safe to include the patch despite the last comment?
<brainwash> well, not counting my generic comment :D
<Noskcaj_> maybe not.
<Noskcaj_> I'll just prepare the other one for the time being
<brainwash> thanks :)
<brainwash> we need someone to merge the xubuntu-default-settings stuff
<brainwash> to end the wallpaper madness
<brainwash> and maybe xfdesktop + 2 upstream patches
<brainwash> but maybe xfdesktop 4.11.6 is already scheduled to be released soon
<Noskcaj_> brainwash, Should  garcon get the fix to https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10212 as well?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10212 in General "Opens links in browser" [Normal,New]
<Noskcaj_> And isn't micah the only one who can merge default-settings stuff?
<brainwash> sadly
<brainwash> the garcon patch looks ok
<brainwash> it's a nice bonus if we add it, but not really necessary
<brainwash> Noskcaj_: can't anyone of the ubuntu devs merge the default-settings branch and release a new version?
<Noskcaj_> brainwash, yes, actually. it's xubuntu-dev, which is lionel, micah, and core-dev
<brainwash> ok, I'll try to ask the ubuntu guys later
<brainwash> already asked about abiword
<Noskcaj_> I just sent an email to the debian maintainer for abiword. i'll let you know if he replys
<brainwash> awesome, thank you :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-05
<Noskcaj_> starrats, In response to your email, welcome to the team
<starrats> Thank you Noskcaj
<Noskcaj_> Is there anything in particular you'd like to help with?
<starrats> I do not know but I want to help, just really new to this whole thing, you folks have helped me and I want to reciprocate 
<Noskcaj_> awesome
<starrats> like being on this channel and if someone comes and ask a question and I k now tghe answer then I'll start there, testing the newer version will come down the road, still learning
<Noskcaj_> :)
<Noskcaj_> Do you know any programming languages or a language that isn't english? 
<starrats> I live in the USA and in OH so sometimes there be folks on that others will be off sleeping
<starrats> neither, sorry
<starrats> I wish I did, I'm prbably a lot older than most folks/nicks here so I never got involved with computers until late in my life
<Noskcaj_> ok. And age shouldn't be an issue. What do you want to help with? support, docs, bug triage, packaging, testing, etc. There's always someone around willing to teach you
<bluesabre> knome, Noskcaj, micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1302484
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1302484 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] Please upload light-locker-settings 1.2.1" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<starrats> okay thank you and if there books or online documents to help me I would appreciate that too, love to read and test stuff, 
<Noskcaj_> bluesabre, Are there any lintian issues left?
<Noskcaj_> And in the future, try to tell bzr what bugs each commit fixes. (I manually linked the bugs just then)
<Noskcaj_> starrats, There are some, i'll see what i can find
<bluesabre> ok, will do
<bluesabre> I think its lintian clean
<bluesabre> or at least minor
<starrats> thanks Noskcaj
<bluesabre> starrats, is there anything you're particularly interested in? :)
<Noskcaj_> starrats, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Roles has most of the testing and bug triage related info. 
<Noskcaj_> bluesabre, That's been asked twice already. :)
<bluesabre> I started by reporting bugs, then ochosi pulled me into IRC
<bluesabre> since I kept harrassing him about appearance issues :)
<Unit193> Oh, good for him.  Now I get to harass you!
<bluesabre> oh yay
<Noskcaj_> starrats, and http://xubuntu.org/contribute/support_documentation/ is our info for making documentation
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> btw Noskcaj_, thanks for helping with so much this cycle
<bluesabre> it's been smooth-going, and I think you deserve a fair bit of credit for that :)
<Noskcaj_> bluesabre, no problem. It was the only way i could help, with the lack of a function VM to test in
<starrats> Noskcaj_ bookmarked both sites you sent me, was reading on the 'tester' stuff and that sounds interesting to me.
<Noskcaj_> great
<starrats> good night everyone, I was up at 4AM this morning.
<bluesabre> hey Noskcaj_, are you terribly busy?
<bluesabre> I started writing this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mugshot/+bug/1302906
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1302906 in mugshot (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] Please upload mugshot 0.2.3" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> then I remembered that you are the uploader for debian and ubuntu :)
<Noskcaj_> :)
<Noskcaj_> I just finished lunch, so i'll look now
<bluesabre> awesome
<bluesabre> should be a simple package update, nothing funny with new files or anything
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/mugshot/0.2/0.2.3
<Noskcaj_> Might be a day or two since i'd liek to go via debian
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> no rush
<bluesabre> I'm just working on getting releases out as possible
<bluesabre> hoping that I might get a chance to do a release announcement or two this weekend (I'm way behind on my blog)
<Noskcaj_> also, the tag upgrade-software-version is good to add to those bugs
<bluesabre> ah
<Noskcaj_> bluesabre, done. I'm waiting for a sponsor in debian (should only be a day or two)
<bluesabre> yup, saw that
<bluesabre> thanks for quick action :)
<Noskcaj_> eric_the_idiot, Do you think you'll be making another xfdesktop release before the 10th?
<brainwash> ali1234: any idea why indicator-application isn't loading automatically?
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> so now xfdesktop --reload doesn't get the wallpaper back
<brainwash> elfy: just wait for the next update
<elfy> lol
<elfy> so why is --reload not working though :p
<brainwash> mmh, dunno
<brainwash> toggle the compositor
<brainwash> this should also restore the wallpaper
<elfy> too late :)
<brainwash> where is micahg?
<brainwash> now is the time to do stuff and the active people don't have merge/upload rights :/
 * elfy remembers the same refrain last cycle, the one before, the one before, the one before
<brainwash> this time it's LTS time again
<brainwash> people actually expect to get a polished OS :)
<elfy> even so - we don't have a huge list of people to do this stuff - so it's rather pointless going round in circles :)
<brainwash> didn't we want to change this?
<elfy> brainwash: so are you working towards it?
<elfy> yea - time is the issue I guess 
<brainwash> uhm, even noskcaj got only restricted upload rights
<brainwash> I would get like nothing at this point
<elfy> nor for me to talk about it - there's more chance of finding hen's teeth than me doing it
<elfy> s/not
<brainwash> sadly we got some ugly issues out of nowhere
<elfy> I guess the thing we need to do is get the fixes in a row so when micah is about he can get stuff done
<elfy> yea - we did 
<brainwash> what about mr_pouit?
<elfy> he's too busy elsewhere afaik
<ochosi> brainwash_: the indicator plugin works fine for me
<ochosi> i didn't change anything in the config, so the indicator-application is still started by the desktop file
<ochosi> it's a mixed mode, but i think that
<ochosi> 's the same in ubuntu, no?
<brainwash_> not sure
<brainwash_> ofc it would start if you didn't uncheck the autostart launcher
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> but why would i?
<ochosi> afaik tedg's upstart changes haven't landed for all indicators yet
<brainwash_> because we are testing the patch
<ochosi> so i don't think what you wanted to do can work just yet
<brainwash_> maybe
<brainwash_> did you check the running processes after logout?
<brainwash_> did everything terminate?
<ochosi> isn't that hard to say since we start the indicators anew with the same method in the greeter?
<brainwash_> yes, but that's a different user (lightdm)
<ochosi> right, so have you checked that?
<brainwash_> I did and noticed that indicator-bluetooth is still running, also the initial upstart process
<ochosi> i mean you asking me seems to infer that you checked and that it doesn't work
<brainwash_> but my setup is.. different
<ochosi> well mine also isn
<ochosi> t a clean install anymore
<brainwash_> well, please check the process list then
<lderan_mobile> ochosi, shall have a look at those links this afternoon :P
<ochosi> i think it might turn out to be a lot of work, but otoh really rewarding
<lderan_mobile> aye :)
<bluesabre> knome, micahg: https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-power-manager/sync_lock_xfpm_session/+merge/214392
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> hey sergio-br2 
<sergio-br2> hey ochosi, fine?
<ochosi> haven't had time to review your merge-requests, will do that tomorrow
<ochosi> yeah, fine :)
<ochosi> very busy though
<sergio-br2> ok, no problem
<ochosi> haven't had too much time and energy to draw many icons lately
<ochosi> created a draft for new libreoffice-icons though
<ochosi> but haven't had a chance yet to do more than 2 sizes
<sergio-br2> libreoffice?
<ochosi> yeah. libreoffice/openoffice mime-types
<ochosi> and possibly the apps too
<sergio-br2> it will be different than ooo-office?
<ochosi> no
<sergio-br2> ahh, mime types
<ochosi> but currently libre/openoffice = abiword
<ochosi> that's not ideal ^
<ochosi> and the same icon is used for rtf, odt, etc
<sergio-br2> you will change all the icons? or just for writer?
<ochosi> right now i've done the proposed style for writer and calc
<sergio-br2> the main icon for libreoffice, that blank, is missing. And for Math too
<ochosi> some of the other's aren't that important
<ochosi> yeah, we should do that one too as soon as we've found a good style for the app-icon
<ochosi> sent you the proposal for mimes in PM
<sergio-br2> it seems great!
<ochosi> ty
<ochosi> was actually working on this on the side for quite a while
<ochosi> took some time to find something that works
<eric_the_idiot> Noskcaj, yes, just letting some of the translations land before another release
<starrats> When did the 'whisker menu' get moved to the right upper corner?
<brainwash_> eric_the_idiot: I've discovered yet another bug in xfdesktop =S
<eric_the_idiot> I saw the bug report, looking into it now
<brainwash_> really strange one, sadly I did not provide any debugging info
<brainwash_> starrats: we did not change the config
<brainwash_> panel configuration I mean
<brainwash_> ochosi: should I edit the defaults.list (x-d-s) and let abiword open .docx by default?
<brainwash_> we got a bug report for this
<brainwash_> but abiword is pretty bad at displaying .docx, so I'm not sure
<brainwash_> Noskcaj: I've extended my menu-icon-tweak patch for thunar and attached it to the bug report, it's really low priority stuff, so only update your branch if you are really in the mood to change it one more time :)
<bluesabre> brainwash: is it still set to file-roller?
<brainwash_> I think so
<brainwash_> abiword does not appear in the open with sub menu
<brainwash_> I've got libreoffice installed, so it's set as default
<brainwash_> bug 1141885
<ubottu> bug 1141885 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu does not associate .docx with abiword" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1141885
<brainwash_> I would prefer it being fixed in abiword (upstream)
<brainwash> bluesabre: what do you think? there will be another x-d-s upload before release, should we assign abiword to .docx files?
<bluesabre> brainwash: makes sense to me
<jhenke> sorry, what does x-d-s mean?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, i'll update the branch now
<brainwash> bluesabre: ok
<brainwash> jhenke: xubuntu-default-settings
<brainwash> Noskcaj: thanks
<brainwash> uhm, does anyone use xfwm4's ability to tile windows (aero snap)?
<brainwash> it does not seem to restore the correct window size after untiling
<brainwash> ali1234: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8765
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 8765 in General "Tiling does not preserve the original window size" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> how is something like this not fixed yet? :D
<Noskcaj> brainwash, I've never got it too tile properly and am too lazy to fix the settings if that counts
<brainwash> I wish that I would find less bugs before final release
<starrats> brainwash_ my whisker, lol!'s menu is in th upper right hand corner, so if you did not change it how did it get there then
<brainwash> maybe you've re-added it to the panel
<brainwash> so it's now the right most panel item
<starrats> I could have but it went missing when i restarted my comp after a bunch of upgrades, I had to reinstall 14.04 because i was totally lockedout of everything at the password screen
<starrats> yes it's the extreme right side next to the workspaces
<brainwash> I've created a new user account some minutes ago and whisker menu is placed in the left top corner
<Noskcaj> starrats, When you manually add stuff, it appears in the top right. Just go to the panel settings and move it back
<starrats> ah okay I'll try that Noskcaj
<brainwash> and please make sure that you verify your findings next time with a new user account or by reverting back to the default configuration
<starrats> I moved whiskers back to the left side.  brainwash what do you mean?
<brainwash> I mean that you should test the default configuration and see if there really is something buggy
<brainwash> otherwise it's very likely that your current configuration might be the cause
<starrats> ah ok
<jhenke> brainwash thanks
<jhenke> good night
<olbi> hi guys, when will be update of lang files for thunar 1.6.3? :)
<Noskcaj> olbi, The best method would be to ask upstream for a new release, which would contain a lot of updates. I think we translate it too, not 100% sure
<Noskcaj> olbi, We don't translate it, but a new upstream release would add all the translations listed at http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/log/
<olbi> thx
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-06
<brainwash> bluesabre: is bug 1279470 fixed or still pending?
<ubottu> bug 1279470 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "xubuntu, lubuntu images missing secure boot packages" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279470
<Pwnna> hey guys, did F12 got bound to something in 14.04?
<Pwnna> i cannot set it to be a keyboard shortcut
<brainwash> Pwnna: I don't think it's bound to anything
<Pwnna> sure? because F12 currently doesn't launch my terminal anymore
<brainwash> only in combination with some modifier keys
<Pwnna> i can bind it to F10, and it will work
<brainwash> interesting
<brainwash> there is bug 1292290
<ubottu> bug 1292290 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292290
<brainwash> but it's only addressing window manager kb shortcuts
<brainwash> Pwnna: can you please create a new user account and try to reproduce the issue?
<Pwnna> brainwash: new user?
<Pwnna> sure
<Pwnna> gotta give me 5
<RFleming> Greetings!
<brainwash> no need to hurry
<brainwash> hello RFleming 
<Pwnna> whoo
<Pwnna> bug
<Pwnna> brainwash: create a user when you have only 1
<Pwnna> and then the indicator icon won't change to swtich user
<Pwnna> hm
<Pwnna> cannot reproduce with new user
<brainwash> Noskcaj: sorry that I have to bother you once again, I got negative feedback regarding the menu icon tweaks. well, the "new file" don't seem to fit the "open in new tab/window" entries. I got the idea from pcmanfm.. but it somehow really looks bad after all. new final patch to revert this is already attached to the bug report. thanks :)
<Noskcaj> ok. i'll fix it after lunch
<Noskcaj> And it's fine, i've got nothing to do anyway
<brainwash> btw https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8765
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 8765 in General "Tiling does not preserve the original window size" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> I've attached this patch upstream ^
<Pwnna> brainwash: is there anyway to check what is occupying F12?
<Pwnna> i upgraded from 13.10. That should be something, right?
<brainwash> Pwnna: sure, upload your kb shortcut config file
<Pwnna> brainwash: where do i find that file?
<brainwash> ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml
<brainwash> it might be contain a broken entry
<brainwash> deleting this file will restore the default keybinds
<brainwash> after a relog
<brainwash> Pwnna: what did you mean by "indicator icon won't change to switch user"?
<Pwnna> brainwash: never mind that
<Pwnna> brainwash: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/4766900
<brainwash> so it's not a problem which might affect other users?
<Pwnna> brainwash: i don't think so? I use action buttons
<brainwash> ah, so you mean indicator-session?
<Pwnna> brainwash: yeah
<brainwash> ok :)
<Pwnna> but yeah, anything interesting in there
<brainwash> don't know yet
<Pwnna> now F11 is also not working
<Pwnna> but F11 is frequently bindded by apps
<brainwash> fullscreen
<brainwash> I'll try to debug this tomorrow
<brainwash> your config file should be useful
<Pwnna> okay
<brainwash> at this point I have no clue yet why keybinds fail to work
 * elfy hates grub fatal errors 
<jhenke> hi folks
<jhenke> elfy I can fully understand that hate for grub problem :)
<elfy> tried with yesterdays daily too 
<brainwash> yet another broken thing?
<elfy> not our issue though
<elfy> back later
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: ping me if you need more approvals
<brainwash> ali1234: is your title-less windows patch complete and ready to be included?
<brainwash> Noskcaj: oh, there is also another untiling issue bug 1110158
<ubottu> bug 1110158 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Tiling a window + resizeing sends it out of screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1110158
<brainwash> well, is it still reproducible? I'm using the deskbar panel mode and did not notice anything odd yet
<starrats> good morning
<bluesabre> knome: will do
<bluesabre> brainwash: yes, if it was merged, its fixed (marking as so)
<brainwash> bluesabre: thanks for taking care of it
<ochosi> hey folks
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<ochosi> what's up?
<bluesabre> not much atm
<jjfrv8> afternoon, ochosi, can I run some desktop issues by you?
<ochosi> go ahead
<elfy> upgrading little one's 1204 - it's not very quick process, it's upstairs and I'm not - it keeps asking questions :p
<ochosi> bluesabre: that's a good thing though, right? :)
<jjfrv8> I upgraded my main machine yesterday from Precise and I'm having some issues with the backgrounds
<bluesabre> yes, indeed :)
<elfy> bbs - also fighting grub on this machine - I love linux :p
<ochosi> jjfrv8: there are some known bugs in xfdesktop
<ochosi> check the unresolved ones in the xubuntu-t-bugs blueprint
<jjfrv8> I have two monitors with an nVidia GT220 adapter and my backgrounds look like this now: http://imagebin.org/304088
<ochosi> haha, nice
<ochosi> have you tried to change the wallpaper at all yet?
<jjfrv8> it seems like on my main monitor it's a composite of all the backgrounds I've tried
<jjfrv8> on my secondary it's okay
<jjfrv8> and the background on my greeter screen is my original wallpaper on both monitors
<ochosi> ideally xfdesktop should take care of the transition of the configuration
<ochosi> but i'd just try to re-set the wallpaper on both monitors with the configuration dialog
<ochosi> have you tried that at all?
<jjfrv8> yes
<ochosi> the other thing you can try is to kill xfdesktop "killall xfdesktop", it'll respawn and hopefully draw the wallpapers correctly the second time
<jjfrv8> okay, I'll try that
<ochosi> then if that doesn't work you can always open xfce4-settings-editor and reset the xfdesktop channel (right-click the xfdesktop row on the left -> reset channel), then you get a clean configuration
<bluesabre> bad day = rm -rf ~/.config/xfce4
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I did the reset channel thing and that did seem to fix the problem... at least until I started customizing again :(
<jjfrv8> now it's back to the same thing as before.
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> so what are you customizing how exactly?
<jjfrv8> a background image on primary monitor and solid color on secondary
<jjfrv8> but it seems even putting a solid color on both, I end up with the composite stuff on the primary after a logoff
<ochosi> so it works at first but after re-logging in it's borked?
<ochosi> btw, how did you set up your monitors? nvidia's proprietary drivers or nouveau? xfce's dialog or nvidia's?
<jjfrv8> nvidia's. all I had to do after the upgrade was reverse the position of the monitors in the nvidia settings dialog
<ochosi> right, i have no idea whether that could create problems
<ochosi> i myself use propr drivers but use xfce's dialog to set up my monitors
<jjfrv8> btw, it seems if I stay with the stock background images, all is well, even with a different image on each
<ochosi> you could try to use that instead
<ochosi> a-ha
 * ochosi shrugs
<ochosi> ideally debug this a bit more and add all your findings in a bugreport upstream on bugs.xfce.org
<jjfrv8> wilco
<brainwash> jjfrv8, ochosi: bug 1276248
<ubottu> bug 1276248 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "desktop wallpaper distorted on boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1276248
<brainwash> maybe it's the same problem
<RFleming> brainwash, that's decidedly better than the desktop not setting properly :)
<brainwash> but it seems to be a rare failure
<RFleming> brainwash, on 14.04 this happens every single log on, but I much appreciate a bit of distortion on log on than bug 1270261
<ubottu> bug 1270261 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Desktop items have background" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270261
<brainwash> it still does?
<RFleming> which, background distortion?
<brainwash> "Desktop items have background"
<RFleming> No
<RFleming> that's fixed
<RFleming> replaced with "desktop wallpaper distorted on boot"
<brainwash> so the distortion happens again? or did it happen all the time since testing 14.04?
<RFleming> it lasts about 2-5 seconds for me, usually contains the previous session's logoff screen in the 'box' attached to that bug then everything rights itself and I'm good
<brainwash> ah, some nasty artifacts
<RFleming> since testing 14.04, this is new
<RFleming> it has replaced the 'Desktop items have background' bug
<RFleming> once that was fixed, I started to see this
<brainwash> we got even a report stating that the previous microsoft windows session was still visible
<RFleming> ??
<brainwash> after a switch from windows to xubuntu
<RFleming> loading something from gpu memory?
 * elfy has seen all sorts of things after a restart 
<brainwash> indeed
<RFleming> agreed
<elfy> RFleming: what card is this - what driver?
<elfy> I guess nvidia with nouveau
<RFleming> me? I've got an nVidia Quadro FX 880M
<RFleming> and I'm using the prop tested drivers
<brainwash> bug 1267742
<elfy> mmm - wasn't seeing that previously with nvidia driver
<ubottu> bug 1267742 in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau (Ubuntu) "Screen artifacts appear after restart and cold boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1267742
<RFleming> 331.38
<elfy> brainwash: yea
<RFleming> I'm also using uvesafb
<RFleming> cus I like framebuffer :)
 * elfy will install nvidia and check 
<RFleming> how can I take a screen capture on logon?
<RFleming> Prt Sc?
<elfy> RFleming: you see the artifacts at the greeter screen? 
<brainwash> I doubt that
<elfy> camera
<brainwash> or pen and paper :D
<elfy> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/162094788/CAM00031.jpg
<elfy> RFleming: kind of like ^^
<RFleming> elfy, no artifacts at greeter screen
<elfy> so where do you actually see this? 
<elfy> once you've logged in and the desktop is starting?
<RFleming> take a look at the screenshot attached to 1276248
<RFleming> there's this dark box in it
<elfy> bug 1276248
<ubottu> bug 1276248 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "desktop wallpaper distorted on boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1276248
<RFleming> when I log in, I have remnants of my previous session in that box
<elfy> ok - new one on me :)
<elfy> and is that from a restart or cold boot?
<RFleming> and my screen gets scewed
<RFleming> both
<RFleming> what I end up seeing is my screen shifts about 30% left, and 15% down, and it wraps.
<elfy> ok - I'll try here then - previously installing nvidia for me removed any issues with artifacts
<RFleming> but it only lasts a couple of seconds, sorts itself out and I'm good to go
 * RFleming is going to try and take a screen shot
<jjfrv8> when I log in and out, switching users, I briefly see artifacts of the other users wallpaper before it settles down and shows mine
<jjfrv8> and my wallpaper is screwed up unless I use one of the stock images (as reported earlier)
<elfy> can't confirm that
<RFleming> of course, now that I want it to happen, it won't :)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> I restarted with nvidia driver - this is when I would expect to find no artifacts on the desktop from previous experience - same this time
<RFleming> I had my lappy logged off all night, when I logged in this morning I had that artifiacting... now it's working fine.
<RFleming> I even restarted, with no issue.
<elfy> I'll keep it as is for the time being and see if it is a random issue
<RFleming> I just jumped on brainwash because I had that exact issue he was talking about when I joined.
<RFleming> (the channel this morning)
<elfy> :)
<RFleming> overall though, I've been using 14.04 since late February and haven't had any real issues... just small things, and they typically disappeared (and subsequently replaced with other small things) in a relatively short period of time.
<elfy> yep - not had much in the way of show stoppers here either, I've been running it since November
<RFleming> I really need to learn how to search through launchpad for bugs though.  I have no clue how to.
<RFleming> I had an issue that scribblezatcha helped me with
<RFleming> the update a couple of days ago knocked out my sound indicator icon :)
<brainwash> RFleming: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs is very handy
<brainwash> and feel free to test anything from my PPA (if you are familiar with installing from a PPA)
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
<brainwash> RFleming: the sound indicator is currently not launching automatically due to a change made by the ubuntu guys for Unity
<brainwash> you can easily re-enable it via settings manager > session and startup > autostart apps
<RFleming> yep.  Have done that :)
<RFleming> brainwash, to be honest, I never even thought to look there :)
<RFleming> then scribblezatcha suggested it, and voila
<RFleming> oh, speaking of indicators.  Is there any way to change the priority of what's displayed on the power indicator?
<ochosi> no
<RFleming> :( 
<ochosi> it automatically decides what's more important/critical
<RFleming> so a mouse that is discharging and a keyboard that doesn't exist trumps a laptop battery that's charging
<RFleming> got it.
<RFleming> Hey elfy, I've just noticed something in Settings.
<RFleming> I now appear to have 2 'Additional Drivers' icons in Hardware.
<elfy> yea - we know about that issue
<RFleming> alrighty :)
<elfy> the fix is pending 
 * RFleming grins
<RFleming> I'm not worried about a fix coming, it eventually does
<elfy> lderan: not sure if this is expected behaviour - had nouveau, no screensaver - set to Never, install nvidia driver - seems to set it to 1 minute - had to reset to Never
<lderan> will look into that elfy 
<elfy> okey doke
<brainwash> elfy: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2215325
<brainwash> your answer does not make any sense :)
<brainwash> this is the 2nd time I hear/read about this problem with suspend
<brainwash> but maybe it's just the same person
<elfy> it does now ... 
<brainwash> thanks
<brainwash> sadly no additional info in the original thread
<elfy> nope
<elfy> many threads in +1 are like that unfortunately
 * GridCube is having issues with the suspension as well
<brainwash> xfce related?
<GridCube> i tried to restart xfce4-power-manager but it wont work after it goes to suspension
<GridCube> when it comes back i can't open the power manager
<GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1302244
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1302244 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager-settings can not be launched after the session comes back from a suspension" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> so you cannot open the settings dialog
<GridCube> not after it wakes up 
<brainwash> did you try to restart the power manager?
<GridCube> if it wakes up, at least once i had to force a reboot
<brainwash> and did you try to create a debug log file like I've told you?
<brainwash> running xfpm in debug mode inside a terminal window
<GridCube> i tried to restart it yes it did nothing, ill try the debug now if you tell me how to
<brainwash> xfce4-power-manager --debug
<brainwash> you might need to kill the currently running instance of xfpm before
<GridCube> kay
<GridCube> trying
<GridCube> trying to run --debug says that its already running, even after i killalled it with and without sudo
<GridCube> rebooting and trying again
<brainwash> you can uncheck the autostart entry for it and then start it manually
<GridCube> great, now is not comming back
<GridCube> its awake, i can go to ttys but tty7 is not responding
<GridCube> aaaand, pressing the powerbuton to call the login stage shutdown the computer properly
<Pwnna> is there a way to create a new user account that has the new xfce settings 
<Pwnna> but keep all of my old account's stuff? like files with the permissions and such
<Pwnna> i've upgraded this machien from 12.04 -> 13.04 -> 13.10 -> 14.04 and lots of settings are not working
<brainwash> most xfce related settings are located in ~/.config/xfce4/
<brainwash> renaming this folder should restore the default configuration on next login
<GridCube> k i have to cook now
<Pwnna> for example after i login with my current user my screen resolution goes to 1024x768
<Pwnna> i'll try that
<Pwnna> it worked!
<Pwnna> brainwash: the F12 key is now working.
<Pwnna> what's startup notifcation for keyboard shortcut, btw?
<brainwash> Pwnna: I think it's used to trigger the busy cursor while the app is launching
<Pwnna> oh
<Pwnna> i wish there is a way to get a libnotify notifcation
<Pwnna> wait
<Pwnna> F12 is definitely hijacked by something
<Pwnna> it worked and then stopped working
<brainwash> dynamically?
<brainwash> :D
<brainwash> but it's a major annoyance
<brainwash> customizability is an important part of Xfce
<brainwash> so broken keybinds are bad
<Pwnna> idk how this is not working
<Pwnna> it worked and then stopped
<Pwnna> i can relogin
<Pwnna> brainwash: discovered something!
<Pwnna> when i add a shortcut to super+F12 the f12 shortcut stops working
<Pwnna> i can try it in a new user acc
<GridCube> alright, executing sudo killall light-locker from tty1 let me go to tty7 and login to my desktop
<GridCube> but the running terminal that had the xfpm --debug is gone so i dont know what it said
<Pwnna> wait. in fact Super+F12 replaces F12
<Pwnna> so if you create 2 shortcuts, Super+F12 and F12
<Pwnna> the second one will replace the first one.
<elfy> Pwnna: I can confirm that if there is a bug report
<elfy> but I'm not here atm :)
<Pwnna> elfy: you can confirm that?
<Pwnna> idk which package to report a bug in
<GridCube> Pwnna, i would do it agains xfwm4
<Pwnna> okay
<Pwnna> this is pretty major for me as both super f12 and f12 does important functionalities
<Pwnna> elfy, GridCube https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1303404
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1303404 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Hotkeys overriding each other" [Undecided,New]
<Pwnna> can verify?
<GridCube> can't. it works here
<Pwnna> ok
<GridCube> my f12 drops tilda, super-f12 sends the notification
<Pwnna> okay.
<Pwnna> well idk
<GridCube> well. no. wait. tilda hears the f12 regardles of the shortcut
<Pwnna> GridCube: 14.04?
<GridCube> yes
<Pwnna> hm
<GridCube> no, my f12 does nothing after i kill tilda
<GridCube> alright, weird
<GridCube> i can confirm now
<Pwnna> please confirm :P
<GridCube> did so
<GridCube> brainwash, :( now i consistently can't relog, all the time it leaves a blank screen
<brainwash> check some log files
<brainwash> like ~/.cache/upstart/startxfce4.log
<brainwash> and of course /var/log/syslog + /var/log/lightdm/
<GridCube> k, should i append them all to my bug report?
<brainwash> won't hurt
<starrats> Question:  Where is the little volume control that used to sit on top of the screen next to the time/date icon?
<GridCube> starrats, failing to load
<starrats> it's not there for me now
<Pwnna> GridCube: are you debugging when you login from sleep you get a blank screen?
<starrats> is ikt just mine or is it a glitch in the version
<GridCube> Pwnna, yes
<GridCube> starrats, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-April/009967.html
<Pwnna> thanks
<GridCube> Pwnna, you have the same issue?
<Pwnna> yea
<Pwnna> is there a bug? I can confirm
<GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1302244
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1302244 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager-settings can not be launched after the session comes back from a suspension" [Undecided,New]
<GridCube> Pwnna, thats my bug report
<GridCube> but it has evolved from that
<Pwnna> GridCube: wait. wut
<Pwnna> you mean after you login there's no screen
<Pwnna> you can run a Xrandr command
<Pwnna> and get your screen back
<Pwnna> but then i lose my mouse pointer
<Pwnna> and then if you go to CTRL+ALT+DELETE and relogin again everything works
<GridCube> i stopped the lightdm service and restarted it, then i could log in
<GridCube> i tried to ctrl-alt-del but i got to the login and went back to a black screen, over and over again
<Pwnna> GridCube: http://ubuntu.5.x6.nabble.com/Problem-with-wakeup-td5062841.html
<GridCube> Pwnna, yes i've seen that thread
<Pwnna> yeah.
<GridCube> Pwnna, can you open the xfce4-power-manager-settings?
<Pwnna> GridCube: when
<GridCube> after waking up your suspended pc
<GridCube> Pwnna, you are correct, executing an xrandr does start the screen
<Pwnna> so i think it's an issue with after login the screen cannot be found correctly
<Pwnna> i see the new login screen is like.. another display
<Pwnna> previously it's an overlay
<Pwnna> so idk
<GridCube> Pwnna, yes, now we use light-locker, previously it was the xscreensaver i think
<Pwnna> yea
<Pwnna> hm
<Pwnna> GridCube: also when you wake up the screen brightness is at minimum
<knome> xnox, any progress/idea with bug 1284910 ?
<ubottu> bug 1284910 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu Beta 1 and Beta 2 installer has debian background wallpaper" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284910
<GridCube> Pwnna, i don't notice that
 * starrats will wait until the xfce volume/sound icon to be fixed.
<starrats> I temp. lost wifi  had to reboot the modem and router.
<GridCube> starrats, did you not see the link i pasted you?
<starrats> yes I did GridCube and I followed all the instructions, rebooted and lost the wifi plus i couldn't logon and had turn off the comp and did a restart.
<GridCube> :(
<eric_the_idiot> jjfrv8, if you can try xfdesktop from git it should fix your issue
<brainwash> eric_the_idiot: ah, new commit
<eric_the_idiot> yeah, gotta keep you busy with your ppa ;)
<CajunTechie> Hello everyone
<CajunTechie> I'm looking to get involved as a Python programmer. Any suggestions/tips?
<knome> CajunTechie, hey, you one of the people asking for that on the mailing list?
<CajunTechie> Knome: Indeed I was :-)(
<knome> CajunTechie, ok, did you read about the xfce python bindings?
<knome> that would be generally useful to know
<CajunTechie> No, I haven't yet. I assume that would be on the XFCE site then?
<knome> there was a mail about them
<knome> let me dig that up
<CajunTechie> Ooh yes, I remember that discussion. That they could use some love
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-April/009985.html
<knome> yep
<knome> other than that, we're pretty late in the cycle, so not much we have time to get you involved with...
<knome> ...but we will start working on the next release soon, and think what updates we want/need to land for 14.04.1
<CajunTechie> Great! Then I will start beefing up for the next cycle then 
<knome> if you have an irc shell, it would be useful to follow how things usually roll by following this channel
<knome> most of the xubuntu contributors are more or less active on IRC
<knome> so it's the natural platform for a lot of discussion
<knome> being around you will also get to know the nicks and people behind them
<knome> and: welcome!
<CajunTechie> True. Then I will do that. I always forget to start IRC but I'll just let my client idle and check in every now and again.
<CajunTechie> Thank you!
<knome> you might or might not remember me from the list: i'm the xubuntu project lead (until april 17th)
<CajunTechie> Oh yeah, I do remember. I'm still getting names down so please forgive me not connecting
<knome> no problem at all
<knome> it'll take some time
<knome> ochosi is simon, who proposed looking at the python bindings for xfce
<knome> he's also the artwork lead
<CajunTechie> Am i correct in assuming pyxfce is what I need to be looking at here?
<knome> well, i don't understand "much" about actual development, but i'd guess yes :)
<knome> and the thunarx-python stuff too
<CajunTechie> Excellent. I'm there now and WOW, could use some love is an understatement. I'll also check out the thunar stuff
<knome> usually it's best to work with stuff that will scratch your own itch, eg. fix a bug that annoys you
<CajunTechie> True. 
<knome> and that's also a very motivating way to start contributing
<knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs
<knome> ^ that's the list of bugs we are working on *right now*
<knome> we will try to fix as many of those for 14.04 release as possible
<CajunTechie> Many thanks! THAT will come in very handy
<knome> if you find a bug that is not marked with "fix released" and doesn't have an assignee, and think you can fix it, feel free to step up and mark yourself as assignee
<knome> or just shout out in this channel that you are interested in working with that bug
<knome> people will help you when they are around, if they can
<CajunTechie> Excellent! Sounds like a very easy process
<knome> well.. it should be ;)
<knome> ...and the cherry at the top: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu.html
<CajunTechie> I have to say, it's a much easier process than some other projects I've been part of. This looks fun
<knome> our current progress towards the release
<knome> we will most probably not hit 100%, but at least we have some idea where we are at
<knome> and as you can see, most of the sub-blueprints are done
<CajunTechie> Very ysefyl
<knome> if you have any qeuestions... just ask
<CajunTechie> + useful
<CajunTechie> lol
<knome> and again: welcome
<CajunTechie> I will. I'm going to spend some time studying now and getting the lay of the land. Thank you again!
<knome> no problem
<knome> be back in a bit ->
<Noskcaj> CajunTechie, If pyxfce is too daunting, (it's not been updated since 4.6 i think), bluesabre makes a fair few of our python apps, and might have some stuff you can work on
<knome> there is infrastructure that runs on python too, which is what lderan mostly works with
<knome> Noskcaj, we should do various of uploads before 10th for translation updates
<knome> -of
<lderan> hello :)
 * Logan_ waves
<lderan> hello Logan_ :)
<Noskcaj> knome, I'm back, light-loocker crshed my pc again
<Logan_> I'm a MOTU who's about to make the switch to Xubuntu, so feel free to give me tons of merge/sync requests :P
<Noskcaj> hey logan
<knome> ooh ooh ;)
<Logan_> I heard there's a need for people with upload rights over here
<Logan_> from a certain person named Jackson
<knome> definitely...
<Noskcaj> :)
<knome> poke Noskcaj (your person), bluesabre and ochosi 
<Noskcaj> There's a fair few uploads waiting in the sponsoring queue
<knome> that would be a good place to start
<Noskcaj> thunar and xfwm4 spring to mind
<Noskcaj> knome, Should we take some upstream git snapshots for translation updates, or is the a better way?
<Noskcaj> i think my mouse has stopped working now
<Noskcaj> the cursor
<knome> Noskcaj, hrmph, i'd dicsuss that with people who know the conventions better
<knome> i'd guess it depends what our current version in ubuntu is
<brainwash> Noskcaj: untiling patch yes/no?
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8765
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 8765 in General "Tiling does not preserve the original window size" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> adding all these separate patches is a bit scary though
<brainwash> but that's the ubuntu way I guess :)
<Noskcaj> brainwash, If you need motivation, try to get as many patches in as gnome-control-center
<brainwash> more patches than actual code? :D
<Noskcaj> -0ubuntu54
<Noskcaj> nuff said
<brainwash> but isn't that some ancient version which gets patched to the limit?
<pleia2> Noskcaj: is it possible that this regressed? Just had someone complaining about it on trusty, just updated their kernel https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1222021
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1222021 in xfce4-power-manager (Debian) "[SRU] xfce4-power-manager does not inhibit systemd from handling buttons and lid events" [Unknown,New]
<pleia2> closes lid, suspends even though they don't want it to
<brainwash> maybe power-manager crashed and does not respond anymore
<Noskcaj> pleia2, I've got the same issue. It's possible it regressed like that, could be something else though
<brainwash> a regression is somewhat unlikely
<brainwash> systemd did not change
<brainwash> neither did the power-manager
<pleia2> thanks brainwash 
<brainwash> but we got reports that the power-manager stopped working after the first suspend
<pleia2> I'll ask
<pleia2> I like suspend, so :)
<Noskcaj> Unlikely, but http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/commit/?id=83b20fd2335a2cc54577019ea9af1a664a93ac28 could be related
<jhenke> good night
<ochosi> humm, some ppl report suspend problems
<ochosi> and i'm wondering whether those are general suspend problems or related to greeter or locker
<elfy> I've kind of seen some rumbling - but I've not been very awake - I can try tomorrow with this machine and the laptop
<elfy> then whatever logs we need we can have 
<ochosi> problem is that for me suspend wasn't that reliable from the beginning in 14.04
<ochosi> so it's not totally unlikely that it's related to other stuff
<ochosi> (like graphics driver, etc)
<elfy> suspend on this machine has always been solid
<elfy> I just never do it - it being a desktop - seems a bit pointless
<ochosi> yeah
<elfy> and the laptop needs a new battery so it is plugged in to the mains ... 
<elfy> lderan: you know I said earlier that light-locker-settings was showing the blank screen at 1 minute after I installed nvidia
<elfy> I set it to never - seems that since I logged back in it was at 1 minute again
<ochosi> have you checked xfpm
<elfy> ochosi: yea - that was all set to Never still 
<ochosi> have you checked "xset q" ?
<ochosi> there are a few values you can check
<ochosi> mostly the DPMS stuff
<ochosi> and ScreenSaver
<elfy> Standby: 0    Suspend: 0    Off: 0
<elfy> dpms ^^
<elfy> prefer blanking:  yes
<elfy> screen saver ^^
<elfy> oh bah - ignore me completely
<elfy> sigh - no don't ignore me lol
<elfy> I did a clean install - thought I was in that for a moment ... 
<ochosi> oh bah, don't send me on emotional rollercoasters just like that! :p
<elfy> ochosi: so this only happened after I installed the nvidia driver ealrier today
<elfy> reinstalling nouveau - will check what that does tomorrow morning
<brainwash> bug 1303493
<ubottu> bug 1303493 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xubuntu boot disc menu has duplicate entries" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303493
<brainwash> which package is causing this?
<brainwash> surely not xfdesktop4
<ochosi> debian-installer maybe
<ochosi> not sure thogh
<ochosi> though
<lderan> elfy, will try that myself tomorrow, got an old pc with an nvidia card in it
<elfy> lderan: ok
<brainwash> ochosi: ok, reassigned it
<jjfrv8> eric_the_idiot, thanks, but I'm afraid I don't know how to install from git
<ochosi> maybe brainwash will put it in his ppa
<elfy> ages since I needed numlockx - forgot all about that
<knome> ochosi, poke Logan_ 
<ochosi> what for?
<knome> 23:03  Logan_: I'm a MOTU who's about to make the switch to Xubuntu, so feel free to give me tons of merge/sync requests :P
<ochosi> weeee
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> in that case, i'll prepare another upload for xubuntu-artwork with new icons
<ochosi> i mean new icon sizes
<ochosi> we just got a huge bunch of stuff fixed
<Unit193> Wow, awesome.
<brainwash> jjfrv8: https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
<elfy> wow
<knome> Logan_, see? that's how much we needed uploaders...
<elfy> ha ha ha 
 * elfy ensures that Logan_ 's arms haven't been snapped off 
<jjfrv8> brainwash, I already have that ppa installed but I see that xfdesktop got updated 4 hours ago. I'll try running an update.
<brainwash> yes, the last upload contains the needed patch
<brainwash> "fix for monitors not getting updated"
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-30
<gnumbknuts> ali1234: re: gmb. Would putting a symlink in the /home/user/music folder that pointed to other places that media may be stored, allow gmb to follow that link ? 
<ali1234> no idea
<ali1234> gmb allows you to set multiple scan directories
<gnumbknuts> Oh, I thought that was the problem, that gmb would only scan one directory.
<ali1234> no
<Unit193> Remastering isn't too hard.
<gnumbknuts> Unit193: It may not be for Devs, but looking at the Ubuntu-wiki, it is way over the top for me :{ 
<gnumbknuts> Ali1234: I put a symlink in the music folder that points to the video folder, Exaile has no problem with that. I will need to install gmb to see if it, too, will follow the link. 
<ali1234> i expect it would
<ali1234> you'd have to go out of your way to make it not
<Unit193> Well, not precisely the deviest dev.
<gnumbknuts> BTW... who does the packaging for Xubuntu-daily.iso(s)? Is this done by Canonical ?
<Unit193> Building the ISOs?  That's the Canonical/Ubuntu build system, yes.
<Unit193> !info livecd-rootfs
<ubottu> livecd-rootfs (source: livecd-rootfs): construction script for the livecd rootfs. In component main, is optional. Version 2.257 (utopic), package size 22 kB, installed size 188 kB
<gnumbknuts> So pretty much I, and everyone else, will need for them to update the daily with the sylinux files ?  
<ali1234> everything is built on canonical infrastructure, that is what it means to be an official flavour vs an unofficial respin
<ali1234> two more tests done: rhythmbox: 12 minutes, quod libet: 11 minutes
<ali1234> and i rebooted between each test so this is not the effect of disk cache
<gnumbknuts> ali1234: installed gmb, it too, can follow the symlink ; however it will only show audio files that it supports ; and thus, if a folder contains none, then the folder will not appear. Decibel-player has not problem either ; but something I did not know about Decibel, is that it can play the audio from mp4 video files. :) 
<ali1234> gmb shows files it can't play on my system
<ali1234> weirdly they play fine in rhythmbox, even though they both use gstreamer
<ali1234> i do not understand this, i'll be investigating it further in a later test
<Unit193> ali1234: Try Aqualung! :-----D
<gnumbknuts> I'm using, in gmb, the Exaile layout with the files tab open. gmb version is the one from staging.
<ali1234> banshee just finished importing. 11 minutes
<ali1234> Unit193: Package aqualung is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<Unit193> Partially why I was joking, I have it in a staging PPA but it does not seem like the greatest client IMO.
<gnumbknuts> Unit123: re: livecd-rootfs, is the package able to rebuild an iso with the extra files ? I can not find much info about it, nor those other packages like "live-image-xfce-desktop" . 
<ali1234> exaile: 6 minutes!
<Unit193> ali1234: If you're really bored, ppa:unit193/staging and try aqualung from there, see if it can do faster.
<Unit193> If you aren't, no real need to I suppose.
<ali1234> audacious: 4 minutes. they are getting faster... weird
<gnumbknuts> "they are getting faster... weird" . If you have ever wondered about artificial intelligence, then look no further that an "ant trail". Notices how over time how the trail corrects its self. Obviously, the music players are following each other, but slithly correcting them selves every time. That's my theory...
<ochosi> morning folks
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<gnumbknuts> It's alive!, it lives! I managed to repackage the xubuntu-daily.iso with the syslinux packages; fired up usb-creator-gtk to make a bootable usbstick; and guess what? It works :)
<Noskcaj> Do we know what xfce packages are getting another point release soon? I'd like to start backporting git patches from things that aren't
<gnumbknuts> Unit193: the convoluted method wasn't so bad after all. Once the image is mounted as a live system on the host system, it is just a matter of using the apt-get package commands.
<ochosi> Noskcaj: what git patches are you thinking of specifically?
<Noskcaj> Nothing specific really, but i've heard of fairly important fixes in thunar and xfdesktop, and i doubt that's all
<ochosi> not sure what's planned wrt those two
<ochosi> for thunar i thought that bluesabre already included the patch (or at least he was looking into that) that fixed the crashes on moving/copying files
<Unit193> 1.6.6-1ubuntu2 in staging, I presume.
<ochosi> Unit193: yes, not sure it's the latest rev though
<bluesabre> ochosi, Unit193: yes, thats the latest revision of that patch
<ochosi> bluesabre: was that the one that worked or the one you reported some issues against?
<bluesabre> ochosi: the issue I reported is a different bug it seems
<bluesabre> many different bugs causing copy/move/paste to segfault
<bluesabre> elfy: Do you know if https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1385624 has been resolved?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1385624 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "wrapper-2.0 crashed with SIGSEGV in strrchr()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<knome> hey bluesabre, ochosi 
<knome> let's fix the website :]
<knome> the development subteams at http://xubuntu.org/contribute/ are broken now
<knome> in the sense that they do not make sense for some part; documentation and translation should be in one page
<knome> artwork should probably be its own page
<knome> and marketing and promotion mashed up with the website team, unless we consider that the subteam of those
<bluesabre> and we can finish the lp descriptions as well
<knome> or maybe the promotion part should be renamed...
<bluesabre> but I gotta go get ready for work now, bbl
<knome> it basically says that the promotion is telling your friends about xubuntu
<knome> it is *not* a xubuntu subteam as is
<knome> so maybe it should go with support, as it originally was, iirc
<knome> originally being... around 2008-2009
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/?page_id=3076
<knome> ^ for those of you who are logged in
 * slickymasterWork logs in
<ochosi> sorry folks, same here, gotta run
<knome> duh :P
<slickymasterWork> knome, if I'm understanding it correctly http://xubuntu.org/?page_id=3076 isn't live presently
<knome> yes, that's right
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I agree with you, doc and translation should on a page of its own
<slickymasterWork> and it would be just a matter of refreshing that page content
<knome> i don't think that the page content necessarily needs a big refresh
<knome> but if you feel like it, feel free to poke it
<slickymasterWork> by refreshing it I mean, check how accurate/up-to-date is the content and correct it if need knome 
<knome> yep
<knome> iirc, we relatively lately updated it
<slickymasterWork> I just read it diagonally 
<slickymasterWork> screencasts
<knome> hm?
<slickymasterWork> never thought of those as potentially being part of the -docs tasks/actions/work
<knome> i don't think that is exactly realistic for any team to do
 * knome shrugs
<slickymasterWork> yes, realistic would be the key word here
<slickymasterWork> knome, you have fiddle with that page for sure, all the links are pointing to the right pages
<slickymasterWork> including to the latest changes to our process page
<slickymasterWork> IMO, the page content is right as it is, and I can't see any issues preventing it from going liveÂ´
<knome> yep ;)
<slickymasterWork> lol, here's a prove of your hand on it -> Xubuntu 15.04   Xubuntu Vivid Vervet Beta 2 
<knome> that's the website footer :P
<knome> what would you feel about of this:
<knome> in addition to the subteam listing
<knome> make another subsection
<knome> which said
<slickymasterWork> I know, I just didn't want to disclose Last edited by Pasi Lallinaho on .....
<knome> "Even if you couldn't contribute *to* Xubuntu, you can help us by doing one of the following things:"
<knome> then proceed with a list of support places people can help at and mention they can promote xubuntu as much as they can
<knome> last can==want
<slickymasterWork> why the past tense at the beginning of the sentence knome: even if you couldn't...?
 * knome shrugs
<knome> don't stick to the irrelevant things
<slickymasterWork> I try not to, thing is it seems paradoxal withing the sense of the rest of it
<knome> huhu
<slickymasterWork> it's like we're assuming that someone hasn't yet been able to contribute yet, but they can then do something from the list
<slickymasterWork> and could be prone to be misread, or misinterpreted 
 * knome shrugs
<knome> yes mister language police
<knome> my main point was
<slickymasterWork> nah
<knome> what if we separated the support and promotion stuff from the main list
<slickymasterWork> yes, I do agree with your underlying point
<slickymasterWork> but by separating do you mean to have another distinct page?
<knome> no
<knome> just another subsection on the main page
<slickymasterWork> ok I was going to say that in the main page would be preferable 
<slickymasterWork> not to lose readers/users attention by having to navifate to yet another page
<slickymasterWork> * navigate
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/?page_id=3081
<slickymasterWork> exactly
<slickymasterWork> knome, can we continue after lunch?
<slickymasterWork> I have a medical appointment at 13:00
<knome> not sure i'm around then, but you can surely poke the stuff then
<slickymasterWork> ok
<slickymasterWork> gotta run now
<slickymasterWork> ->
<elfy> bluesabre: I guess I'm not seeing it when I boot livesessions - and it used to show up there
<elfy> knome: http://xubuntu.org/?page_id=3076 ... our guidelines and good conventions for Xubuntu translations page 
<knome> yes?
<elfy> implies that we also have some bad conventions to me :)
<knome> lol
<knome> maybe we do...
<elfy> then please make sure to document them and link on the same page :D
<knome> i will
<elfy> should lose the good in the meantime 
<knome> mhm
<ochosi> Unit193: just a reminder to schedule the next meeting
<elfy> irony :p
 * ochosi will be mostly offline for the next week btw (easter holidays so very little computarrrs)
<ochosi> elfy: ;)
<elfy> ochosi: btw - since last xfpm upgrade - not complaining about crashes
<ochosi> so things are fine again?
<ochosi> havent had much chance to play with anything lately tbh
<ochosi> only noticed that eric fixed one bug stemming from upower not delivering any device info
<elfy> seems to come back from suspend and lock ok now 
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> and weird
<ochosi> no xfpm changes related to that
<ochosi> so maybe a kernel bug to begin with?
<ochosi> or systemd
<elfy> possible systemd
<elfy> not kernel - or if kernel intermittent
<elfy> last systemd update here saturday not sure when I spoke to eric 
<ali1234> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer <- i've rotated the table so it fits better and added the import test results
<Unit193> Meh...
<Unit193> If that's all that is on the agenda, no need to have it right now.
<elfy> so last meeting then ... what's " updating the team/subteam descriptions on Launchpad shortly to conform to a standard layout" even about - only thing I've seen about that is a line or two in the logs and a link to a pad
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev for example has a description of the team, they want to update them or at least look at them and make sure they all make sense.
<elfy> the 'they' again
<knome> elfy, see https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-website
<knome> that was something i put up, and something i worked on with bluesabre
<knome> basically just to make everything more usable and point people to resources where they can get started with contributing
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> I love the decision making processes here lately
<knome> lol
<Unit193> LP isn't really the place to have that information, though.
<knome> Unit193, noo, it's just a place to point people to that information
<elfy> no - a meeting and/or mailing list is 
<elfy> otherwise 2 or 3 of us could just ditch stuff like gmb that probably no-one uses
<Unit193> Still, don't think LP is the right place to point to.
<knome> Unit193, that has the new information.
<knome> elfy, this isn't something like a default application change, this is something that reads on our website or a related page
<Unit193> Good for it.  < Unit193> Still, don't think LP is the right place to point to.
<elfy> I assume that's just an example knome pointed me at
<knome> elfy, it's also acked by ochosi if you mean you'd rather have seen a team discussion
<knome> i mean i don't consider it a biggie, and if somebody else wanted to improve stuff like that, i wouldn't mind them just going at it
<elfy> knome: there just appears to be a lot of 'a couple of people and ochosi' talked in some other place about something - so we're going to do it like that now
<elfy> we're either a community or we're not
<knome> surely.
<Unit193> So it's more of where it was discussed.
<elfy> what's the point in having xubuntu-team 
<Unit193> Or, wasn't.
<elfy> well - wqasn't 
<knome> Lastlog:
<knome> 13:14  bluesabre: http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-subteams Let us know if you  have any feedback for the proposed layout
<knome> and yes, i noted you said meeting/ML
<knome> but i don't think every small thing should be clogged up that path
<knome> if you do, then we disagree here
<knome> my best intentions are to improve stuff and *get it done*
<knome> this is comparable to the qa team updating a testcase
<knome> no need to let everybody weigh in on every discussion
<elfy> I hardly think so
<Unit193> FWIW, I dislike LP pages with long "descriptions."
<knome> Unit193, right, having seen that description in use, i can probably agree it's a tad long. that said, it's revertable, so...
<elfy> unless the QA team had a testcase had a testcase that listed how teams do things then globally changed them without saying anything 
<slickymaster> well, qa always do ping someone when they fiddle with a testcase knome 
<knome> slickymaster, and we pinged "someone" too when working on the LP description updates
<Unit193> knome: Right, but the first appearance of the whole thing is a pad link in a meeting.  And sure, but..
<slickymaster> not saying you didn't
<knome> Unit193, so do you think it would have been better to not do anything before the meeting?
<knome> i mean, if nothing was done, we could have started that only after the meeting, which would have meant the work would have been postponed to at least the next meeting
<Unit193> elfy: To be fair, that's a "How to get involved with QA" type of thing, not changing how it's done but "correcting" documentation on how it's currently being handled.
<knome> where we would have asked for comments in the same way...
<elfy> knome: my issue is that all of these are presented to the rest of us as a fait accompli 
<Unit193> knome: Didn't say meeting, but many people idle in here, if I somehow missed it, fine then, but I don't think I did.
<elfy> you even go so far as to say ochosi acked it - which is just like saying - we're doing this this way 
<knome> elfy, i hardly see it as such
<knome> we worked on it and had a proposal; then we asked for comments
<knome> there was "this is what we are going to do without your consent" type of thing
<Unit193> So you'd say, rather than acked, agreed or liked it?
<Unit193> http://xubuntu.org/contribute/ would be a better page, IMO.
<knome> Unit193, i don't understand that.
<knome> Unit193, we aren't replacing anything with the launchpad descriptions
<knome> it's just an additional source of information.
<Unit193> Fine, well be that as it may, -1.
<knome> i've landed this to the website team for two reasons 1) it's the team i'm leading and can edit the branding 2) this will let me see how it looks in action
<Unit193> Sure.
<knome> and as i said, this probably isn't as good as i thought it was
<knome> i think we need to cut it down to probably just the basic tasks and a link to the contribution page
<knome> we can go through more or less bureaucratical processes to get something like this decided, or then just see how it looks
<knome> i guess the logical question for the future is: do we need the team to approve all content changes in the website in the future?
<elfy> as I said, it's not so much the detail, but the way it's put across, maybe the way you write and I read
<elfy> knome: if it makes a difference to how we as a whole are perceived then I'd say yes 
<elfy> anyway - another day for me 
<knome> elfy, i don't mean to surpass the teams influence in any way
<knome> elfy, but i try to avoid too much bureaucracy on things
<knome> elfy, it depends on the status quo too; if the descriptions were consistent already, then of course it would have needed more thorough investigating (unless it was a minor fix)
<elfy> a launchpad page is the last place I would look for detail on something like this
<knome> elfy, but currently, the descriptions are "what they are", they date far or not so far in the history, but afaui, they have never really been considered as an entirety
<elfy> it's the wronn place
<knome> elfy, what if somebody lands on that page, for what ever reason, first?
<knome> do we just not tell them how to contribute? (or what the team does)
<elfy> then the same information needs to be available on wiki, lp, mailing list, irc
<elfy> or the argument is false
<knome> the same information is available in the website
<knome> where we have intentionally focused this
<knome> eg. the one place to read how to start contributing
<elfy> so why switch focus? 
<knome> and this LP page links there
<knome> we aren't switching focus
<knome> we are adding one more outlet where we link to that information
<elfy> wanting to add
<elfy> anyway - night all 
<Unit193> Why not *just* link to the website?
<knome> i think it's sane to have short descriptions of the teams in LP, since LP memberships are the ones that decide what you *can do* in many cases
<knome> Unit193, that's a fair comment, and one that i also said to be probably wiser than what we proposed
<knome> Unit193, ....which is why we asked for feedback
<knome> night elfy 
<Unit193> Alright.  If for no other reason, then if something changes less places to change it.
<knome> artwork currently says:
<knome> The Xubuntu Artwork Team is responsible for creating the custom themes, graphics, splashes, and branding for the Xubuntu project. The artwork team wiki is located at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork
<knome> Please note that only users who have contributed to Xubuntu perpetually will be approved to the team.
<knome> To start contributing, join us at #xubuntu-devel or the Xubuntu development mailing list and introduce yourself as well as your skill set. Thanks for your interest and understanding.
<slickymaster> I'm also of the opinion that it's a bit too much knome 
<knome> slickymaster, yep.
<knome> see the website team now
<Unit193> Maybe more like  This team does foo  To get involved with this team, seehttp://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<knome> Unit193, or maybe see the website team now? (:
<slickymaster> yeah, the website team option is a more sane one
<knome> but "to this team" sounds good
<Unit193> Works for meâ¢
<slickymaster> ditto Unit193 
<knome> i approve.
<knome> :P
<knome> updated pad
<knome> ochosi, comments...
<knome> ochosi, @ http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-subteams
<knome> ochosi, see how it looks @ https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-website
<knome> btw, we should get the empty marathon-rs project dropped
<knome> (why i asked if anybody saw nick lately)
<bluesabre> Folks got chatty around here :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-31
<xkaue> Why does Xubuntu ships XChat, not HexChat?
<xkaue> I read that XChat development has stopped.
<elky> xkaue: if you're talking about hte development version, i'd suggest submitting a bug about that. it's a good point
<elky> not much can be done about previous versions though
<xkaue> How do I submit a bug? I don't know much about Xubuntu roadmap, I was just reading about IRC clients and found that HexChat is a (active) fork of XChat.
<elky> xkaue: start here and follow the prompts. don't worry too much about "instructions" or whatever for this particular bug though https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+filebug
<elky> leave most things at default values, ask if you get confused
<pleia2> xkaue: xubuntu doesn't ship either one anymore
<pleia2> only pidgin
<pleia2> hexchat has some frustrating bugs, xchat is not being developed, and we figured with anyone beyond basic IRC needs (which pidgin provides) will just install their own client based on their preferences anyway
<xkaue> You're right, I'm using 14.04 and I thought XChat was still the default IRC client, sorry.
<pleia2> no worries :) we appreciate the feedback, and this kind of feedback is precisely why we made the decision we made
<elky> sorry i should have checked
<pleia2> elky: no need to apologize, your diligence regarding asking whether it was the development version was noted ;)
<elky> :)
<Unit193> Besides, nothing wrong with switching from null to hexchat.
<elfy> knome: that looks more sane 
<knome> elfy, yeah, i agree
<knome> elfy, after having thought about it, what you said actually sums up my thoughts too
<knome> elfy, you said something about only a few people changing something "what makes us look something"
<knome> elfy, isn't that the purpose of the website/marketing teams? :)
<elfy> knome: yea ofc - what's your point? 
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy 
<elfy> I can't see anyone else wanting to make global decisions 
<elfy> hi - not really here slickymasterWork - lunchtime
<slickymasterWork> nevermind, already have what I needed from you ;)
<knome> elfy, marketing/website-related decisions tend to affect more people indirectly, and i guess we don't just agree on what is something that should be ran through everybody in the team and what not
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: either of you around for a debugging session?
<knome> bug 1438679
<ubottu> bug 1438679 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "After unplugging external display, the Xfce session isn't resumed correctly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1438679
<brainwash> bug 1379702
<ubottu> bug 1379702 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfsettingsd crashes after disconnecting external screen" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1379702
<knome> didn't pop up when i was filing
<knome> aaand set as duplicate
<elfy> knome: I'd guess so :)
<knome> elfy, even when i was the XPL, i wanted to delegate "freedoms" and responsibilities to team leads and more, so maybe if you think this from that point of view, it might make more sense (even if you didn't agree with it any more)
<elfy> I've really not got much of an issue here - website is nothing to do with me (much), but I will balk at being told what to do with QA ;)
<knome> elfy, we didn't tell anybody to do with anything yet :)
<knome> *anything with anything
<elfy> nor do I particuarly want to drag this out anymore 
<knome> just an early proposal :P
<knome> agreed
<knome> at least we're arguing about things, not people...
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> we're probably arguing about the difference between words written, their expected meaning, and their perceived meaning ;)
<knome> probably
<knome> but even that's better than arguing about people or just for the sake of it :P
<knome> which i've seen happen in other teams...
<elfy> for sure :)
<elfy> if I was arguing that black was white - I'd be doing it in -offtopic ... 
<knome> and the best thing is that even if we disagree, i can expect that you won't hate me after that - and you can expect the same from me
 * knome offers elfy a cookie and a coffee with rum
<elfy> absolutely :)
<elfy> lol 
<slickymasterWork> rum?!
<knome> rum
<elfy> is that a bribe :( 
<elfy> :D
<slickymasterWork> someone called me?
<knome> elfy, maybe ;(
<knome> slickymasterWork, haha
<slickymasterWork> ;)
 * knome offers slickymasterWork some cold hand on the cheek
<slickymasterWork> blaarrrrgh
<knome> i didn't argue with you, no bribes for you :P
<knome> i mean, acts of kindness and friendship
<knome> :P
<elfy> ha ha 
<slickymasterWork> noet to himself, argue with knome on a regular basis
<slickymasterWork> * note
<knome> it's the foreign language that mixes my thoughts up O;)
<elfy> Unit193: like https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-qa
<slickymasterWork> elfy, double towards, isn't it a bit on the meh side?
<elfy> missed that 
<slickymasterWork> :)
<slickymasterWork> spot on
<elfy> rarely get them
<knome> elfy, the website doesn't mention that either (needs updating), but one of the tasks is also maintaining the testcases/-suites
<elfy> knome: I'm looking at the QA page anyway - that can be added for sure
<Unit193> Sounds like PR.
<knome> elfy, yep
<slickymasterWork> ok, so I've also tweaked the -docs description in LP, agreements, disagreements, please
<slickymasterWork> !team ^^
<slickymasterWork> !team
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<knome> what about the slideshow? :P
<slickymasterWork> was on planning on starting that after release knome 
<slickymasterWork> tbh, I'm struggling a bit with spare time
<slickymasterWork> btw knome, did you manage to think about your issue with https://code.launchpad.net/~krytarik/xubuntu-docs/patches/+merge/254485
<elfy> Unit193: as long as it doesn't sound like teen spirit I'm happy
<slickymasterWork> grunge elfy?!
<elfy> nope - I wash regularly 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-01
<bluesabre> evening folks
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> hey Unit193
<bluesabre> how goes?
<Unit193> Playing with Launchpad git, a backup script, and music.  You?
<bluesabre> Just got home from a nice hike
<bluesabre> thinking about what do to next
<Unit193> Nice.
<nerdistmonk> hmmm not much longer and i will get to experience the joy of my first "devel" version leap
<nerdistmonk> hopefully its as simple as double checking sources.list and just running a routine update afterwards
<nerdistmonk> hmmm 15.10 Wascally Wabbit.....you guys got to use that one haha
<nerdistmonk> ^one of the codenames that is on the list for consideration, though im not sure if WB would approve of its use.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Any update on me getting ~xubuntu-dev access?
<ochosi> folks, just so you know, i'm travelling around for ~1 week from today onwards, so i'll be a bit MIA until next thursday
<ochosi> i'll try to check in every now and then though, but don't expect me to get too much done ;)
<slickymasterWork> travel safe ochosi anf have fun
<ochosi> thanks, will do!
<elfy> ochosi: have fun 
<elfy> evening peeps
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-02
<slickymasterWork> knome, ping
<ochosi> elfy: just a quick heads up question: have any critical issues come up since i've been afk?
<ochosi> or to rephrase that, if any come up, please ping me!
<slickymasterWork> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> hi and bye slickymasterWork :)
<slickymasterWork> bye ochosi ;)
<elfy> ochosi: nope and I would ofc 
<elfy> off now - cya 
<ochosi> well, that's good to hear (the prior more than the latter even :))
<knome> slickymasterWork, pong
<slickymasterWork> first of all, good morning
<slickymasterWork> secondly, I'm going to forward you an email I received
<slickymasterWork> sent knome 
<slickymasterWork> is it related to the website?
 * knome looks
<knome> no
<knome> it's related to wordpress.com
<slickymasterWork> the only accounts I have wordpress related are the -xub website and the FC blog
<knome> that's weird
<slickymasterWork> very weird
<knome> maybe you should reset the pass and delete the account
<knome> or sth - you clearly have an account
<slickymasterWork> the  website account?
<knome> the wordpress.com account
<slickymasterWork> but I don't hane one :P
<slickymasterWork> * have even
<knome> wordpress.com is a service provided by the wordpress developers that provides the wordpress platform
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I know that.
<knome> well the email is valid - it does redirect you to wordpress.com
<knome> maybe you've created an account to comment on some blog or sth?
<slickymasterWork> I'm starting to think that it's probably phishing knome 
<knome> no, as i said, the mail is valid
<knome> it does redirect to wordpress.com
<slickymasterWork> I'm almost sure that I never had, or created, a wordpress account
<slickymasterWork> anyway, going to reset it and delete the account
<knome> i guess then don't mind the message:P
<slickymasterWork> ok
<knome> you probably get a message saying the key doesn't exist
<knome> because i followed that link once
<knome> :P
<knome> so you need to ask to reset your pass again
<slickymasterWork> ok, thanks for the heads up
<knome> np. hope you solve the mystery
<Unit193> And if not, rm -rf
<knome> was the slickymaster in forum council an april fools joke? ;P
<Unit193> Yes, nobody is crazy enough to put him in.
<knome> yep.
<slickymasterWork> apparently everyone went cuckoo at the FC, Unit193 
<knome> that can't be true
<slickymasterWork> they put me there knome.!!
<knome> there is no way elfy could have "went" cuckoo
<knome> he is already...
<slickymasterWork> yeah
<slickymasterWork> btw knome, did you get any conclusions on an alternative to your doubt with https://code.launchpad.net/~krytarik/xubuntu-docs/patches/+merge/254485
<knome> no, my brain has been unable to process that information :P
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> glad to know I'm not the only one with a need for an occasional reboot
<slickymasterWork> :P
<knome> i still think it's a bad thing language-wise for some languages
<slickymasterWork> the way I see it knome, if it passes the Finnish test, the it will pass all others
<knome> this would be different if we did this from the beginning
<knome> so we could have given people instructions
 * slickymasterWork doesn't recall another idion wit so many letters per word
<slickymasterWork> * idiom
<knome> "note that the cross reference prints the chapter name as is"
<slickymasterWork> yes
<slickymasterWork> did you get to check a trial test of a translated finnish version with this new approach knome ?
<knome> yeah, i checked that back then
<knome> and it didn't convince me for this particular reason
<Unit193> I only had a minor nitpick, and IMO we should get this in soon.
<knome> Unit193, like for 15.04?
<knome> now here's the thing
<knome> the reason i think this is a problem isn't that "you can't make the finnish version look fluent with this solution"
<knome> it's "the current finnish translation doesn't work with this solution"
<knome> so it would mean i (or somebody else) would have to see every place where cross references are
<knome> to see if they read fluent or not
<knome> and change as appropriate
<knome> and i would imagine it would mean a change in most of the places
<Unit193> Considering x-d-s has already been updated and pushed for it?
<knome> are we talking about the same thing?
<knome> oh right, you are talking about the other parts of the MP
<Unit193> And, the English part of that looks crappy. :P
<knome> i have no problems with that.
<knome> english part of what?
<bluesabre> assuming google doesn't lie to me... happy birthday lderan !
<slickymasterWork> \o/ congrats lderan 
 * knome plays a little birthday fanfare for lderan 
<elfy> hippy burpday lderan 
<knome> hah
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> thoughts about the updated description here? https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev
<elfy> the only thing I take issue with is the sudden appearance everywhere of 
<elfy> perpetually
<elfy> or do other people use a different meaning to me ;)
<knome> propose an alternative
<slickymasterWork> elfy, take it like a marriage 
<elfy> This team is moderated; only users who have been approved by the Xubuntu Technical Lead will be approved to the team.
<knome> elfy, when are people approved by the xubuntu technical lead?
<elfy> no idea 
<elfy> I've never asked
<knome> ...when they have contributed perpetually?
<elfy> perpetual - occurring repeatedly; so frequent as to seem endless and uninterrupted.
<elfy> it's just the wrong word :)
<Unit193> ^
<elfy> if I had QA team only having perpetually contributing people - it would be empty
<knome> i was asking for an alternative word proposal :)
<knome> sustainably?
<elfy> ok - so I am asking why there is a need for a word anyway? 
<knome> persistently?
<elfy> nope - I only asked once :d
<knome> because if you say "only approved people will be approved" it means nothing
<elfy> then lose the whole thing :D
<knome> well,
<knome> the history of this clause is that people keeped trying to join the teams
<knome> this cuts the amount of people at least a bit
<Unit193> sustained and high quality. :P
<knome> Unit193, we'll have to drop you from some of the teams then...
<knome> :P
<Unit193> That's alrighty. :P
<knome> (just kidding for all the log readers who don't understand jokes)
 * Unit193 waves to krytarik.
<elfy> if the reason for having stuff in LP is because people don't read other things - then it's just never ending
<Unit193> This is the song that never ends...
<elfy> perhaps the link should be to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Team
<knome> elfy, maybe, but then that explains why you aren't allowed in the team, not how you can contribute to become part of the team
<elfy> because that's the rule book
<knome> (like the current link target does)
<elfy> really don't care - just don't expect me to say perpetually to anyone as that's just wrong 
<knome> lol
<knome> i'm fine with changing the word
<knome> so what if
<knome> instead of putting the descriptions everywhere
<elfy> and this just goes back to the difference between some of us thinking that LP is NOT the place for stories
<knome> we worked on the description in one place - the pad
<Unit193> continually|sustained|continued|foopermania
<knome> to get it in good shape before we land it
<knome> to allow feedback and all
<knome> which was the original idea...
<elfy> sustained is closer for sure - but we expect people to sustain for 6 months 
<elfy> and THAT is not anywhere near perpetual :p
<Unit193> Nooope.
<Unit193> "For as long as the project existed, and until it ends?"
<bluesabre> Only those with sustained contributions and are approved by the XTL will be added to the team ?
<elfy> that works 
<knome> bluesabre, that's beating it to death
<Unit193> I don't see the cookies, only those that bring me cookies win.
<knome> bluesabre, the approval will happen once there are sustained contributions...
<Unit193> But otherwise it looks good.
<bluesabre> with a rubber mallet
<bluesabre> unless the current XTL is insecure about giving them upload rights to the PPAs, code :)
<elfy> I still have no idea why there's this need to be changing things everywhere 
<knome> elfy, consistency
<elfy> with what?
<knome> within the descriptions
<bluesabre> I somewhat triggered it.  The previous description for this team was a bit inaccurate, so I mentioned it to knome that it didn't align with the SD
<elfy> well - given that I've got my feet firmly stuck - the consistency isn't going to be very consistent 
<elfy> bluesabre: that's fair enough - I can understand a need to deal with that 
<elfy> but I'm now blaming you for everyone else having to get involved :D
<bluesabre> :'(
<Unit193> Can't we just blame bluesabre anyway?
<knome> elfy, well you didn't have to get involved... ochosi could have changed the description for you :P
<elfy> but it's ok - I know you care :p
<elfy> knome: and I'd have changed it back 
<knome> :P
<knome> because?
<bluesabre> I'll take blame, won't cry over it
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<knome> i don't know why this ever became such a big thing, it's a few words in the internet...
<elfy> :)
<elfy> because LP is not the place for stories 
<knome> but it's not even a short story :(
<Unit193> Can't we all just agree with bluesabre now?
<knome> or a poem?
<knome> -?
<knome> Unit193, no?
<slickymasterWork> ftr I don't agree with Unit193's cookies policy :P
 * slickymasterWork doesn't like sweets
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> I need to leave https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: Nono, they only have to bring them to me.
<Unit193> elfy: Why?
<elfy> I only turned up a while ago - and I'm not doing stuff all the time 
<slickymasterWork> well, if it's like, then I won't mind
<elfy> Unit193: because it says 'perpetually' 
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> I'm also not a fan of the word 'perpetually'
<elfy> sustainable contributions is what we want, what we expect - so should probably be what we say 
<Unit193> ^
<knome> "Only people with sustained contributions to the team will be considered for approval."
<bluesabre> right
<Unit193> left!
<bluesabre> that sounds good
<knome> bluesabre, please update the pad as you go too, so we have it tracked
<bluesabre> down!
<elfy> yep - agreed - that's also the truth 
<elfy> don't leave me with the centre :(
<knome> elfy, you can take up
<elfy> fishing !!!
<elfy> I'll take up fishing 
<knome> :D
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> I can agree with the sustained contributions sentence 
<elfy> and I've not got a big problem with LP descs making sense either - as long as they're succinct
<knome> mhm
<knome> i got to run
<knome> bbl
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Nearly a week has passed for xfburn with no changes, popping one up for you now.
<elfy> noooooo
<elfy> it failed last time I had hardware :p
<knome> elfy, "noo, meetingology is back" ?
<knome> :P
<elfy> woohoo
<elfy> ?working? 
<knome> can't be.
<elfy> #seemsso
<Unit193> !netsplit
<ubottu> A netsplit is when two IRC servers of the same network (like freenode) disconnect from each other, so users on one server stop seeing users on the other. If this is happening now, just relax and enjoy the show. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsplit
<Unit193> ERROR: files left after uninstall:
<Unit193> ./share/icons/hicolor/icon-theme.cache
<Unit193> Makefile:823: recipe for target 'distuninstallcheck' failed
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-03
<ochosi> morning folks
<ochosi> i noticed i get a fontconfig folder created every once in a while on 15.04
<ochosi> have any of you gotten that too? (haven't been able to track down the troublemaker yet)
<knome> a fontconfig folder?
<ochosi> knome: a fontconfig folder.
<knome> where?
<knome> why is it a problem?
<knome> etc..
<ochosi> in the home folder
<ochosi> well, it just pops up from time to time, then i delete it
<ochosi> then it resurfaces
<ochosi> haven
<ochosi> t had time to further investigate
<ochosi> but as i've been running 15.04 for a while and haven't had a chance for a clean install, i wanted to check before i run everything in vbox
<dkessel_> ochosi: I think I had that too recently
<ochosi> (also, it doesn't happen instantaneously, just seems to be triggered by "something" "at some point")
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> guess we should check whether a bugreport already exists
<ochosi> and if not, investigate this a bit and then submit one
<Unit193> ochosi: I have one better, ]/ randomly pops up...
<ochosi> what's ]/ ?
<knome> aha, so not a dot folder?
<Unit193> I haven't the slightest idea, empty.
<Unit193> ~/]/ just appears.
<knome> i'm sure it's a punishment for all your sins.
<ochosi> nope, not a dot folder, otherwise i'd have said .fontconfig :)
<ochosi> Unit193: oh wow, that's even weirder
 * ochosi suspects Unit193 is a story-topper
<Unit193> Not usually, that involves talking to people.  I just plain don't understand it..
<dkessel> Often? You could have a look at the creation time. Maybe you get an idea what ran at that time
<Unit193> Not that often, nope.
<elfy> I've not seen that fontconfig thing at all during the last 5 months
<elfy> anyone know of xfce bug for terminal not getting focus? google fu failing, thought there was one to put against bug 1440100
<ubottu> bug 1440100 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "xfce4-terminal doesn't have focus when first opened" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1440100
<sidi> hey, Alistair pointed out on the Xubuntu docs that we should mention websites that purposefully steal user passwords
<sidi> in https://unit193.net/xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/guide-keeping-safe.html "How to reuse passwords safely"
<sidi> if anyone's got commit access to the docs, can you please add a one-liner? I dont really feel like digging the doc, making a patch, etc, since it'd take me 30 mins to just locate the bzr repo :p
<sidi> oh wait i already have one!
<sidi> hm, slickymaster pushed my commit with a different title/id so i cant merge the upstream branch. bad slickymaster :p
<sidi> slickymaster, can you please merge lp:~sidi/+junk/xubuntu-docs/ ?
<slickymaster> lol sidi, I'm nor bad :P
<slickymaster> * not
<slickymaster> sidi, I'm assuming your talking about http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sidi/+junk/xubuntu-docs/revision/342
<sidi> kidding :-)
<slickymaster> can't you do a MP?
<sidi> what's a MP?
<slickymaster> merge proposal
<sidi> never realised we had this on launchpad :|
<slickymaster> yeah just head on to https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/vivid
<slickymaster> and do it
<slickymaster> I'll merge into main branch then
<sidi> wah this merge UI is so weird
<slickymaster> ping as soon as you've done it sidi 
<sidi> slickymaster, i just get a weird error message
<sidi> i have to go on https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/vivid/+register-merge and fill in my branch details right!?
<slickymaster> yes
<sidi> This branch is not mergeable into lp:~sidi/+junk/xubuntu-docs.
<slickymaster> ?!
<sidi> how is it not mergeable...
<sidi> and wtf is this UI? it feels like i'm asking to merge your branch into mine
<sidi> and on my own branch page i have no +register-merge button
<sidi> wtf Launchpad
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> sidi how did you made the mp in the first place?
<sidi> i went to the url above
<sidi> and put in my branch name
<slickymaster> did you branched the main branch -> bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs
<sidi> yeah
<sidi> parent_location = bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/xubuntu-docs/
<slickymaster> then made the changes and bzr commit -> bzr push, right?
<sidi> yeah
<sidi> just one new commit on top of the tree
<slickymaster> that's odd then, how come it's not showing up in LP?
<slickymaster> presently the only proposal present there is krytarik's
<slickymaster> https://code.launchpad.net/~krytarik/xubuntu-docs/patches/+merge/254485
<sidi> slickymaster, turns out you cant merge +junk branches
<sidi> https://code.launchpad.net/~sidi/xubuntu-docs/security-advice/+merge/255201 slickymaster 
<slickymaster> ok, will merge this one
<slickymaster> done sidi. Pushed up to revision 342. 
<elfy> good evening slickymaster sidi 
<slickymaster> hey elfy 
<sidi> elfy, hiya
<sidi> slickymaster, thy
<sidi> ty*
<Unit193> elfy: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11743
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11743 in Helpers "exo-open --launch TerminalEmulator inactive window opens" [Normal,New]
<Unit193> Easiest thing to do there is reverse the two commits.
<Unit193> Noskcaj: You try out xfburn yet? :P
<Noskcaj> Unit193, no. I've got no dvd drives around, so it seemed pointless
<Unit193> A lot of things seem to seem pointless. :P  Well, can check if it works at all, or perhaps loop mounting.  That's what I'm going to try.
<Noskcaj> ok, i'll get to it later today
<Unit193> Well doesn't crash.
<brainvvash> indicator-messages does not show up in the indicator area. did anyone else notice this?
<Unit193> It's up there, indicating.
<brainvvash> good
<Unit193> If it's a first install or something, it won't appear until after you open something that supports it.
<ali12341> i dont see it, but i haven't updated for a few days
<brainvvash> I've even checked the guest session, not sure what may be broken here then
<ali12341> ah that would be it
<ali12341> yeah it pops up as soon as i start pidgin
<brainvvash> install is 4 months old and I've opened a handful of email clients already
<ali12341> few email clients seem to support it
<Unit193> Thunderbird should, pidgin does, and hexchat if you have hexchat-indicator installed.
<brainvvash> ok, it is back :)
<Unit193> Problem solved. \o/
<brainvvash> so, what about the exo bug? bluesabre wanted to somehow fix it, or revert the faulty commits
<Unit193> I used revert, it's super effective.
<brainvvash> for personal use
<brainvvash> can you fix the ubuntu package?
<brainvvash> and upload?
<Unit193> I can not upload, and wasn't sure how bluesabre wanted to fix that.
<brainvvash> the benefit of fixing it properly is small
<brainvvash> just revert before it's too late :)
<mrkramps> known issue that media keys are not recognized in xubuntu session?
<knome> no and yes
<mrkramps> so it depends?
<knome> yep
<knome> it's mostly hardware specific, the software side should be working with no problems
<mrkramps> eh, and that's the real issue â¦ media keys are recognised in an openbox session on the same system
<brainvvash> did they work in 14.10? did some update in 15.04 break the functionality?
<mrkramps> i have to admit my setup is not very representative with 14.04 + 4.12 PPA and actually my question should have been if there is some issue known in general or had been fixed recently or something
<brainvvash> download the 15.04 iso and verify that it's broken in the current dev release
<brainvvash> booting into the live session should be enough
<mrkramps> alright
<mrkramps> brainvvash, beta 2 or daily?
<brainvvash> daily
<brainvvash> beta 2 should be fine too, it's still somewhat fresh
<mrkramps> daily is in the pipe now
<mrkramps> thanks
<mrkramps> brainvvash, is there somethings else i maybe should test when i boot daily?
<brainvvash> you wanna do some general testing?
<brainvvash> I don't know if something specific needs testing
<mrkramps> i will have to boot it anyway
<mrkramps> ok, maybe next time
<brainvvash> feel free to open random apps and click on different stuff like panel indicators
<brainvvash> if you want more details, you'll have to ask elfy 
<Unit193> Awesome, Debian is finally working on ddebs.
<mrkramps_> ok, media keys are working in daily and it is nice to see thunar not segfaulting on file operations anymore
<Unit193> Nice.
<mrkramps_> so i guess all issues i have are due to my mixed setup
<Unit193> xfce-4.12?
<mrkramps_> 14.04 with 4.12 ppa
<mrkramps_> and yes, i know i had to expect issues when adding the ppa ^
<Unit193> I'll update that, thunar in vivid is newer.
<mrkramps_> that is great to hear #11450 made thunar absolutely useless
<mrkramps_> Unit193: is there something else i shall test as i have booted daily anyway
<mrkramps_> mugshot is also fixed
<mrkramps_> or is it just because a name is already given
<mrkramps_> ah, mugshot still crashing when name is empty
<Unit193> mrkramps_: Not that I know of, the testcase is pretty simple.  You can report it if you'd like on https://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<Unit193> mrkramps: Actually, in a bit you can help by updating your trusty system and 1. Checking that everything is a-ok.  2. See what else depends on libxfce4util6.
<mrkramps> Unit193, alright, i'll check ppa page for updated packages being published
<bluesabre> hey all
<bluesabre> whats up?
 * Unit193 sighs.
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/vivid/xfce4-session/vivid/view/head:/debian/changelog#L115
<Unit193> bluesabre: exo?
<bluesabre> Unit193: yes, going to fix exo this weekend, either upstream or ubuntu, but fix it
<bluesabre> elfy, jjfrv8, dkessel I may have something for you to test soon (since you have 2~ monitors according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TeamHardware)
<bluesabre> my internet at home has been less than reliable lately :(
<Unit193> Bah.
<Unit193> That's not really going to help at all.
<bluesabre> hm?
<bluesabre> probably going to merge the one thunar patch as well since I haven't heard any negative feedback
<Unit193> Bad internet.  Got xfburn git snapshot with gst1.0 up in staging.
<bluesabre> nice!
<bluesabre> I'll have to try to burn something other than food then
<Unit193> Haha. :D
<Unit193> Nearly a week, and gst0.10 needs to disappear.  xfce4-mixer is the only other thing, I believe.
<mrkramps> Unit193, thunar still crashes with segfault
<bluesabre> which crash?
<mrkramps> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11450
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11450 in core "Thunar 1.64, 1.65, & 1.66 crash when moving files" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]
<brainvvash_> did you restart thunar (including its daemon process)?
<mrkramps> i logged out
<Unit193> And, apt-cache policy thunar
<mrkramps> Installed: 1.6.6-1ubuntu1~14.04
<mrkramps> brainvvash_, the deamon should be restarted if i log out and in again?
<bluesabre> ah, is that with the last patch in that bug report?
<brainvvash_> mrkramps, yes
<mrkramps> the patch in #104 works, i applied it manually
<bluesabre> cool, going to patch the PPA and vivid versions with that same patch
<bluesabre> was looking for feedback if anybody noticed regressions, but nobody indicated as much
<mrkramps> bluesabre, i send a very oldschool e-mail to Noskcaj because he was the last who uploaded the thunar package in that ppa
<mrkramps> so at least he should know about it ^^
<bluesabre> yeah, I've gotten a few emails about it too
<bluesabre> just been out and about or offline most of the week
<mrkramps> i am using thunar with this patch for some days now w/o any problems
<bluesabre> good to hear
<mrkramps> and i guess everything is better than having a file manager segfaultig at a core feature
<bluesabre> yes
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, I just hit xfce-4.12 trusty with backports of $WORLD.
<bluesabre> oh thats fun
<bluesabre> thanks Unit193
<bluesabre> you da bestest
<bluesabre> <3
<Unit193> mrkramps: Can you  apt-get purge -s libxfce4util6 | pastebinit  ?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hah, sure.
<Unit193> mrkramps: That won't remove anything, -s = simulate
<mrkramps> Unit193, i know ;)
<mrkramps> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10734110/
<Unit193> Coolio, danke.
<mrkramps> gern geschehen
<mrkramps> the media keys still not working btw.
<Unit193> indicator shouldn't be on that list..
<mrkramps> bluesabre, i guess patchin the thunar package might take awhile?
<dkessel> bluesabre: sure, tell me what to test then
<bluesabre> dkessel: great, I'll likely have a new lightdm-gtk-greeter package to test ready tonight or tomorrow, I'll poke you then
<Unit193> bluesabre: Going to stop doing the login box flickering?
<Unit193> bluesabre: FWIW, I have exo with the same commits reverted as Arch has, just needs an updated d/changelog.
<bluesabre> Unit193: that might be a fix in there, but more importantly it should fix the useless login screen with 2+ monitors
<bluesabre> Unit193: where's your exo? that might be a good place to start
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce please fix changelog though!
<bluesabre> ofc
<Unit193> Because, there's two patches, not one. :P
<bluesabre> bbiab
<mrkramps> Unit193, indicator plugin is held back, missing dependencies
<Unit193> Ah, I see it.
<Unit193> Pushed.
<mrkramps> Fixed.
<Unit193> Yep, just had to "manually" backport.  Man, trusty has been a while.
<mrkramps> ^^
<mrkramps> so package upower-bin was added after 14.04
<Unit193> Yeah, it was split due to systemd.
<Unit193> And in newer plugins, 'upstart' is called rather than 'init'
<mrkramps> damn, i guess it is pain in the ass to maintain such a backport ppa
<Unit193> systemload also won't get pushed back to trusty, upower 0.99.
<knome> only in Unit193's bottom.
<mrkramps> especially when the core system had a lot of changes
<Unit193> Meh, well I worry a bit about it because I don't use trusty.
<Unit193> Yeah.
<mrkramps> Unit193, if something goes wrong â¦ i tellya
<Unit193> Great, thanks!
<knome> Unit193, and if you break anything on MY desktop...
<knome> :P
<Unit193> knome: Don't use PPAs! :P
<knome> i don't!
<knome> (much)
 * Unit193 is a PPA (ab)user, can't really complain. :P
<mrkramps> you have to revert a lot of packages if you are going for a release upgrade
<Unit193> Not really.  The upgrader will disable PPAs and just update the packages.
<mrkramps> this was not working for me with 12.04
<Unit193> Upgrades have only gotten smoother.
<Unit193> 14.10 => 15.04 was very smooth.
<mrkramps> lts â lts never worked for me
<Unit193> Only ever done that on a server. :P
<mrkramps> HWE also seems to break things now
<Unit193> That it does.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-04
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/781861 well that's fun for them.
<ubottu> Debian bug 781861 in xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin "xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin: Wrong dependencies' version" [Normal,Open]
<bluesabre> Unit193: since this will have your name on it, do you like the wording?
<bluesabre>   * Fix newly started windows not receiving focus (LP: #1440100)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1440100 in exo "xfce4-terminal doesn't have focus when first opened" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1440100
<bluesabre>   * debian/patches:
<bluesabre>     - 02_Fix-implicit-declaration-of-function.patch
<bluesabre>     - 03_Startup-notify-incorrect-fix-bug-11743.patch
<Unit193> Not the style I normally use, but really doesn't matter to me, sounds good.
<bluesabre> this package will make you famous one day, mark my words
<bluesabre> :p
<Unit193> Hah. :P
<knome> :P
<Unit193> See -dev, question about thunar.
<knome> but they are gone already
<bluesabre> we shall copy+paste when he reappears
<bluesabre> Unit193: uploaded your changes, and backporting to utopic/trusty ppa
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> thunar time :)
<knome> bedtime, nighty
<Unit193> Nooo. :D
<Unit193> queuebot:#ubuntu-release: Unapproved: thunar (vivid-proposed/universe) [1.6.6-1ubuntu1 => 1.6.6-1ubuntu2]
<bluesabre> :]
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Is there anything we still need done for 15.04?
<Unit193> Cookies.
<Noskcaj> sounds good
<Unit193> But they no give me any.
<Unit193> I think mostly everything is good.
<bluesabre> yeah, we're in pretty good shape
<bluesabre> will have a new greeter release probably this weekend, and will hopefully fix mugshot soon
<bluesabre> and will have a translation release of greeter-settings
<bluesabre> so we support more than ru and en
<Unit193> greeter is going to make it in?  There's a migration to be done in the settings, if that's accepted for this release.
<bluesabre> I think it may support the old location as well
<bluesabre> if not, I need to check about breaking some of the fixes out
<Unit193> 84/84 ooooh burn.
<bluesabre> ?
<Unit193> Your changelog line in thunar is too long. :P
<bluesabre> yeah, oh well, will fix it later :p
<Unit193> Hence why I didn't even bother pinging.
<ochosi> bluesabre: i finally have a fix for the stupid visual bug in pavucontrol: http://i.imgur.com/nlk1cfa.png
<bluesabre> huzzah!
<ochosi> not sure that tiny thing warrants a new greybird release though...
<ochosi> gotta run, family feast is calling
<ochosi> hf!
<ochosi> (oh, also a potential fix in greybird for firefox-gtk3 <- Unit193)
<Unit193> Hah. :P
<Unit193> ochosi: I'm pretty sure you look at that more than I, and feast well.
<bluesabre> seeya ochosi, hf!
<nerdistmonk> hooray they fixed the xfce4-terminal focus bug
<mrkramps> it's alive! thanks for patching thunar
<bluesabre> yay
<Greylocks> The latest kernel update seems to have broken xubuntu...
<Greylocks> I had to reload 3.19.0-11 to get the system to boot
<elfy> worked here 
<Greylocks> hummm let me give it another try
<Greylocks> Nope 3.19.0-12 will not boot on my machine.
<mrkramps> Greylocks, logs?
<Greylocks> Looking now.
<Greylocks> systemd logs are all binary are they not?
<mrkramps> jounalctl
<mrkramps> this is the utility to read system d logs
<Greylocks> here is /var/log/kern.log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10738023/ 
<Greylocks> Well according to dmesg I booted 3.190-12 on Friday the third, so it must have been something in the update I installed this morning.
<Greylocks> *3.19.0-12
<Greylocks> Here is the failure, I believe: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10738363/
<Greylocks> Have to run I'll check back later and see if any others are having problems. :-/
<ali12341> looks rather like a conflict between systemd and cgmanager
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-05
<Unit193> Welp, because I'm a lazy slacker and didn't get the mail out, Monday isn't good.  Perhaps Tuesday, April 7.
<Unit193> Any objections from the floor?
<knome> wfm.
<bluesabre> what time?
<Unit193> 16:00 EDT.
<bluesabre> indeed, just saw the mail
* Unit193 changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | Meeting: Apr 7 20:00 | http://ubottu.com/y/vv | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Daily testing with results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<Unit193> Because, well. :D
 * Unit193 waits for a boot to the head for that.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Anything up?
<bluesabre> nothing in particular. the greeter fix didn't work, so meh
<Unit193> Hah, oh well.
<Unit193> At least exo and thunar!
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> at least :D
<Unit193> cyphermox: Still around?
<cyphermox> I'm around yes?
<Unit193> PM a sec?
<cyphermox> ok
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-04
<knome> bluesabre, is its depends something we can realistically get in xenial though?
<bluesabre> knome: I don't know... if I had a solution, I would have made it happen ;)
<knome> i guess so
<flocculant> it's been a bit of an issue for a while now I suppose
<knome> yep
<knome> i'm seeing it myself as well
<knome> and it's annoying
<knome> not as annoying as the mousepad crashes
<knome> because those mean loss of work sometimes
<flocculant> I guess I've been lucky - not really seeing these issues
<flocculant> yea - not good
<knome> in the case of thunar, you just have to open again 
<flocculant> maybe so - I only actually saaw a thunar issue when I renamed something a *lot* of times - which isn't really something that anyone would likely do in the real world - one or two typo's when renaming possibly - but it must have been getting on for 30 till I saw it
<knome> actually, that's a false assumption; i rename many files often
<knome> at least many enough to get that crash
<flocculant> my biggest headache has been the usb3 remounting thing - but that's not actually thunar as all managers are affected by it
<knome> i don't know if it's related (could be) but sometimes the rendering after renaming isn't correct
<knome> eg. some file names appear twice
<flocculant> knome: mmm 
<flocculant> definitely not something I've seen
<knome> in some cases a filename that should exist (most prominently, the name that you just renamed to) doesn't exist
<knome> but then it gets rendered correctly when you select all
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> or scroll through the files by arrow keys
<knome> or refresh the directory (obviously)
<flocculant> not sure I've seen that reported at either LP or bugzilla
<flocculant> yea
<knome> i know, i should report it, but i'd like to figure out when it happens - because it doesn't every time
<flocculant> but I didn't spend ages looking yesterday at them
<flocculant> and the bug report titles from apport don't make life very easy either - 'some crash in some thing that isn't particularly human readable'
<knome> at least one thing that happens relatively often is that when you rename, the wront file is selected
<knome> *wrong
<knome> if i have time after lunch, i'll try to make a bug report out of it - or maybe a screencast
<flocculant> screencast might be helpful - unless the report is specific - which I'd expect it to be
<flocculant> I'm happy enough to at least try and confirm things
<flocculant> the other thing being - thunar might be fine - it's just showing us the issue - eg the usb3 thing in my case 
<flocculant> I did see a few 'glib previous version were' fine comments yesterday
<flocculant> but it doesn't mean a lot to me :(
<flocculant> bluesabre: just got a few clutter updates - parole works with clutter
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/VW7mrOF.png
<knome> it's not related to USB for me
<knome> oh!
<knome> i hit the crash bug
<knome> not when recording
<knome> let's see if i can reproduve
<knome> s/v/c/
<knome> ok, i can reproduce reliably
<knome> ...
<knome> flocculant, you ready for a quick test?
<jjfrv8> knome, I have five minutes for a quick test
<knome> let me write the instructions in a pad to let you test...
<jjfrv8> bbia
<jjfrv8> +b
<knome> sure, i'll post the pad when i'm ready
<knome> flocculant, jjfrv8: http://pad.ubuntu.com/thunar-bug
<jjfrv8> knome, I could not get it to crash but I did get the dupe file names
<jjfrv8> I'm using the version from staging that bluesabre said might improve things.
<jjfrv8> sorry, got to run now.
<knome> mhm
<akxwi-dave> I've not had the Thunar crash problem eith no matter hat i tried either in VM or hardware
<knome> weird, i'm hitting it semi-regularly
<akxwi-dave> i'm running 16.04 on my Lenovo lappy as my daily and to be honest its been very very stable.. for me much more than 15.10
 * knome doesn't have horses, thus doesn't need a stable
 * knome grins
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<knome> pleia2, ping me when you wake up or sth and let's publish todays article
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: i think we should bind Super+S to Settings Manager
<knome> pleia2, also, feel free to review these two: https://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=3770&action=edit (today's article) and https://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=3850&action=edit (wednesday's article)
<knome> pleia2, err, maybe the previews are better anyway: https://xubuntu.org/?p=3770&preview=true and https://xubuntu.org/?p=3850&preview=true
<knome> bluesabre, want to come up with screenshots for those?
<akxwi-dave> oh yes... todays iso image installed and ran with no problems at all ( if you dont inclued the duplicate imagemagick shortcuts)
<PaulW2U> Hi team, devs and testers - just confirming that I'm still seeing the thunar crash with today's 64-bit ISO. Whether the crash occurs seems to depend on where the file being renamed is located.
<akxwi-dave> Hi PaulW2U , I can't seem to replicate that crash.. how exactly are you getting it to do it..
<PaulW2U> I create a file in /home/user/Documents. Rename it and crash! All documented in the bug report #1512120
<akxwi-dave> really wierd... I have never been able to get it to happen for me.. even though I know it happens to others..  Even tried mass renaming 128 files at once on todays iso, and successfull did it 20 time with no crash.. 
<PaulW2U> If the file is in ~/ then no matter how many times I rename the file thunar doesn't crash.
<akxwi-dave> hopefully they will find whats causing it..
<flocculant> knome: re pad instructions - you've got somefile.txt and 2 and anotherfile
<flocculant> then you want to rename somefil.txt to somefile2.txt - is that what you mean - that just refuses :)
<flocculant> PaulW2U: yup - immediate crash in ~/Docs
<PaulW2U> flocculant: and in any other directory that is not /home/user I think
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> now it's not
<flocculant> this is patched thunar here btw 
<PaulW2U> I'm using today's ISO right now but last night I saw the same with the patched build
<flocculant> PaulW2U: not been home long enough to have got to the daily :)
<PaulW2U> Some of us work reduced hours because of our age :)
<flocculant> :)
<akxwi-dave> lol and some of us do it while working..:-)
<akxwi-dave> http://i.imgur.com/GWBSN3U.png
<flocculant> would be a touch hard for me - I'd likely crash the van - much worse situation than a filemanager crash ;)
<akxwi-dave> this is alread after 20 renames.. 
<akxwi-dave> lol
<akxwi-dave> i owuldn't suggest doing while driving
<PaulW2U> akxwi-dave: very strange
<akxwi-dave> PaulW2U, exactly
<flocculant> this is a real pita
<flocculant> yes I can confirm it
<flocculant> no I can't
<flocculant> ad infinitum 
<flocculant> how can anyone triage this :p
<akxwi-dave> \o/
<flocculant> nice to see clutter updates though - could possibly revert to that for parole
<akxwi-dave> time to go.. bbl
<flocculant> cya 
<knome> flocculant, have somefile.txt intact and anotherfile.txt intact
<knome> flocculant, then just rename somefil.txt to somefile2.txt and back and forth and back and forth
<flocculant> oh right
<flocculant> that was my end assumption and what I did 
<flocculant> couldn't confirm it 
<knome> right
<knome> weird then
<flocculant> yea for sure
<knome> were you able to reproduce the other one then?
<flocculant> the 'same file' listed one - nope
<knome> hmm, again weird
<flocculant> yup
<knome> did you use the mouse or the keyboard to navigate?
<flocculant> both
<knome> because if it matters, my operations were purely kb-driven
<flocculant> could be - I can certainly have a go at doing it that way
<flocculant> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12264#c13
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12264 in core "Crash when renaming single file in folder" [Major,New]
<flocculant> comment 32 for a simple test renaming a bunch of files
<knome> let's see..
<knome> ah
<knome> yeah...
<knome> but that expects the problem is in thunar not being able to refresh the view correctly
<knome> which might indeed be the case
<knome> but otoh, it might not be the case :)
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> so I fiddled with the sleep - changed from 1 to 5 and to 0.5 and 0.05
<knome> yep
<flocculant> ok - so that's sometimes looking wrong locally (not vm)
<flocculant> which points to view refresh perhaps
<knome> maybe
<knome> though i don't know if that says anything about the bug
<flocculant> well it's not crashing on rename that way
<flocculant> if nothing else :)
<knome> yep
<flocculant> and I'm seeing your second issue I think - unknown filetype
<knome> hmm? :)
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> and .txt mixed with .txt.txt
<flocculant> and odd ordering
<knome> hmm, there shouldn't be no .txt.txt though
<flocculant> from the test at comment 32 there should be
<flocculant> mv "$i.txt" "$i.txt.txt" 
<flocculant> then back to .txt
<flocculant> anyway biab - got to start sorting grub out
<knome> ah, right
<flocculant> and http://i.imgur.com/KDRZJmw.png
<flocculant> so those 3 don't actually exist for it to delete
<flocculant> and then they do when I close that message
<flocculant> with 7 ... 
<knome> :)
<flocculant> so got a 3 minute screencast of odditied
<flocculant> oddities
<knome> "fun"
<knome> on another note, since i returned to the desktop machine, i didn't really notice anything "fishy" - what could have been that is that i'm using noto sans 9 instead of droid, so i'd say this is a fairly unobtrusive change after the first shock
<knome> (still have droid 10 on laptop)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> knome: and now confirming it (at least until the next time I can't) 
<knome> pleia2, ping again?
<knome> pleia2, since i'm going to bed next, i've published and tweeted https://xubuntu.org/news/small-details-shortcut-keys/
<knome> pleia2, if you could g+ and fb, that'd be great :)
<knome> (whenever you have time)
<bluesabre> flocculant: huh, clutter coming back to life is rather unexpected
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-05
<pleia2> knome: sorry, been sick, I'll post and try to review
<bluesabre> knome: typos in the window manager keyboard shortcuts, had horizontal and vertical reversed... fixed
<bluesabre> knome: screenshots don't work too well with keyboard shortcut posts, but I put together a demo video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCfZ8XPDPOk -- its taking forever to process, and I'm going to bed, but here's the link at least :)
<bluesabre> nighty all
<Unit193> G'nighty.
<flocculant> bluesabre: yes - must say I was surprised ... 
<knome> pleia2, np :)
<knome> bluesabre, lol, k
<knome> pleia2, we also have the status tracker article mostly ready since september; i tweaked it a bit now and am fine with publishing it too after a quick review from somebody
<knome> dkessel, Unit193: the plugin tells me you both have one submissions left unvoted
<knome> flocculant, ^ and you have 2
<knome> if this is intentional, dismiss
<Unit193> You sure?
<knome> of course it might be a bug too, but that's what i'm seeing here
<knome> jjfrv8, hey! what's the state of th xfce power manager settings 1.4.4 docs?
<knome> bluesabre, do we have a shortlist of the xubuntu-related packages that need appstream updating?
<jjfrv8> knome, xfpm is just waiting for review.
<jjfrv8> knome, I don't seem to be able to vote on the contest site.
<knome> jjfrv8, when you logged in, did you allow it to see that you're on ~xubuntu-team ?
<jjfrv8> what do you mean "allow it to see"?
<knome> when you log in, you should see the ubuntu one confirmation screen that tells you the site is requiring some information
<knome> from that list you need to check the checkbox next to xubuntu-team
<jjfrv8> oic, the checkbox.
<knome> :)
<jjfrv8> ok, I'll try to complete my votes later this evening.
<knome> no hurry :)
<knome> by wednesday midnight i mean the midnight after wednesday
<knome> i think the midnight deadline is always a bit ambiguous
<knome> https://xubuntu.org/news/my-media-manager-gmusicbrowser/ is published
<pleia2> g+ and fb done
<Unit193> mhall119: Thanks for the email, dropped it to the rest of the core team.
<mhall119> thanks
<mhall119> pleia2: did you tell me that Xubuntu is going to use Gnome Software?
<Unit193> Already is.
<knome> yep, and should be for the release too
<knome> unless it blows up in 1000 little pieces
<mhall119> cool, thanks
<Unit193> We're not thrilled with it, but there it is.
<knome> we weren't thrilled with USC either, but there it was ;)
<mhall119> Unit193: it's faster than USC was at least :)
<Unit193> mhall119: It just can't find things well. :P
<Unit193> knome: Truth
<mhall119> no?
<knome> mhall119, nope.
<Unit193> mhall119: It's designed to only find graphical programs, can be a bit of a pain.
<knome> mhall119, try to install a library!
<mhall119> oh, well USC had the same problem didn't it? being application-centric
<knome> unfortunately
<Unit193> Pretty sure you could find screen in it though, no?
<mhall119> but using Gnome Software from the archives means you get the Snappy Store automatically too
<flocculant> mhall119: it leaves dependencies behind too
<mhall119> flocculant: ?
<mhall119> Gnome Software does?
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> unless it's been fixed - pretty sure not - or not read that in changelog
<flocculant> as far as usc not seeing the same things as g-s > https://launchpadlibrarian.net/249956293/missing%20package.png
<flocculant> I guess not the case for everything 
<flocculant> bug 1552792 for dependencies
<ubottu> bug 1552792 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "gnome software leaves dependencies installed" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1552792
<mhall119> yeah, I think usc would find non-app packages during a search, but not browsing
<mhall119> but GS is built around the AppStream spec, which is application only
<flocculant> wouldn't be able to give a definitive answer - didn't much like USC either :)
<flocculant> yea I understand that - pretty much a case of making sure everyone knows that if they want to be able to install anything from the repos then g-s isn't the tool for them ;)
<flocculant> works for most people - like USC did - I would expect 
<Unit193> Exactly, I can't comment on it too much as I like apt, a lot.
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> well I tend to use ye olde worlde synaptic a lot 
<flocculant> bluesabre: I guess that this late - the best we're going to be able to do with thunar is make sure as many of the real issues are properly highlighted in the notes
<flocculant> and sru/backport fixes when they eventually surface
<flocculant> rc next week
<knome> rollercoaster
<flocculant> yea
<knome> and hello!
<flocculant> bluesabre: so unless I hear different I'll get that rolling before next week
<flocculant> knome: hi and night ... 
<knome> ha, nighty :)
<bluesabre> knome: packages that have appstream errors are:
<bluesabre> http://appstream.ubuntu.com/xenial/universe/issues/xfce4-settings.html
<bluesabre> http://appstream.ubuntu.com/xenial/universe/issues/xfce4-notifyd.html
<bluesabre> http://appstream.ubuntu.com/xenial/universe/issues/libxfce4ui-utils.html
<bluesabre> http://appstream.ubuntu.com/xenial/universe/issues/xfce4-power-manager-data.html
<bluesabre> from http://appstream.ubuntu.com/xenial/universe/issues/
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> "icon-not-found" errors are usually because there is no 64px or higher icon in the package or humanity icon theme
<knome> night everybody
<jjfrv8> knome, my wallpaper votes are in.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-06
<aatish910> What is the process of generating ISO images for Xubuntu?
<Unit193> aatish910: Take a look at livecd-rootfs and ubuntu-cdimage.
<aatish910> Unit193, thanks for the pointers. 
<bluesabre> !team | planning the next meeting time, let me know what availability you may have over the weekend (Sat Apr 9, Sun Apr 10)
<ubottu> planning the next meeting time, let me know what availability you may have over the weekend (Sat Apr 9, Sun Apr 10): bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> !team | planning the next meeting time, please let me know what availability you may have over the weekend (Sat Apr 9, Sun Apr 10)
<ubottu> planning the next meeting time, please let me know what availability you may have over the weekend (Sat Apr 9, Sun Apr 10): bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: is there a difference :p
<flocculant> and more or less about at normalish times as required here :)
<bluesabre> bbl
<dkessel> i wonder what items there are to discuss in the meeting...
<dkessel> anyway, available saturday afternoon/evening (CET)
<knome> bluesabre, i'm more or less available
<pleia2> bluesabre: saturdays don't work for me, but sunday after 1500 utc is usually ok
<dkessel> filed a bug: gnome-disks crashes when creating a LUKS Ext4 partition....
<dkessel> number is still private though :o
<knome> pleia2, want to do some social media?
<pleia2> no
<pleia2> ok, yes
<knome> :D
<knome> it's either now or later today, so... :)
<pleia2> yeah, and I am leaving in an hour
<knome> let me just quickly publish the post
<pleia2> k
<knome> done @ https://xubuntu.org/news/small-details-window-manager-shortcuts/
<knome> and tweeted
<pleia2> pushed out on g+ and fb
<knome> nice
<knome> and did the last tweaks for friday's article
<flocculant> bluesabre: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/04/06/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t18:33 re https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.xenial_chinese-fonts/+merge/288195
<pavlushka> o/ all
<knome> pleia2, for the press page: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNlqAchOpFo (i know it's late, but..)
<flocculant> can't find much in here about cjk fonts - other than "it's big :("
<knome> what do you like to know?
<flocculant> well 
<flocculant> all sorts - though with respect to cjk, just put it here after some chat about us and kubuntu not having it seeded yet :)
<flocculant> hence the logs 
<knome> aiui, the cjk stuff is for handling chinese etc stuff correctly
<flocculant> yea believe so
<flocculant> it got sort of brought up at the time - then we moved on to other things :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: you'd want http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/04/06/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t17:33 ... daylight saving ... 
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> flocculant: that was the only concern, huge font
<bluesabre> but that's no reason to cut folks off
<bluesabre> the only reason I hadn't included it yet was because there was endless chatter about it, making it seem like maybe it did not work so well
<bluesabre> !team | translation deadline tomorrow
<ubottu> translation deadline tomorrow: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<knome> ack
<bluesabre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule :)
<bluesabre> hey knome
<knome> hullo
<bluesabre> knome: so, what's the plan going forward with wp contest? waiting for a certain number of votes, or is there going to be additional voting, or..?
<bluesabre> I should try to get new package versions together tonight for the apps
<bluesabre> and -docs for tomorrow
 * bluesabre prays to the fop $deity
<knome> :D
<knome> bluesabre, i'd say we wait for ochosi to vote, then see what the general situation is
<knome> it's getting tight for getting any community voting in, regardless how it's done
<Unit193> bluesabre: Going to try to setup the community artwork package properly? :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: properly, hah
<Unit193> Well, xubuntu-community-wallpapers-xenial/wily and xubuntu-community-wallpapers just depending on one.
<bluesabre> aha, gotcha
<bluesabre> that makes good sense
<Unit193> Just means the one will have to have breaks/replaces or somesuch.
<bluesabre> that shouldn't be necessary, I think
<bluesabre> knome: alrighty, and yes, likely too late in the cycle to get a worthwhile community vote
<Unit193> Oh?
<bluesabre> -trusty/-xenial should be coinstallable
<Unit193> Right, but the fiels are in xubuntu-community-wallpapers right now.
<bluesabre> oh right, I know what you're saying now
<Unit193> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-pkg_basics.en.html#s-depends for specifics.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, see email?
<bluesabre> Unit193: which one?
<bluesabre> Unit193: and yes, familiar with those, had to do that to shimmer-themes when we broke it
<Unit193> From David Planella.
<pleia2> knome: thanks for not rickrolling me
<knome> pleia2?)
<bluesabre> Unit193: @ Fri Apr 8, 2016 3am - 3:30am ?
<pleia2> knome: youtube link from earlier, is actually a xubuntu review ;)
<knome> pleia2, oh, haha :)
<knome> would i ever rickroll you?
<pleia2> trust no one
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yeah...
<knome> not even knome, your friend?
<pleia2> especially my friends /o\
<knome> hah
<knome> fair enough
<bluesabre> Unit193: it will be strange being up at your time
<knome> bluesabre, is that UTC?
<Unit193> pleia2: ...Last one I linked wasn't a rickroll, but was "Pink Fluffy Unicorns"...
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh you're able to go?  Wow.
<Unit193> Nice.
<bluesabre> knome: nope
<bluesabre> EST
<knome> aha
<bluesabre> or DT
<bluesabre> whatever it is, google took care of it for me
<Unit193> Yeah, I do that too. >_>
<knome> did we schedule a meeting for the weekend yet?
<Unit193> Local time, our time.
<bluesabre> knome: not yet
<bluesabre> but will do tonight
<knome> oki
<Unit193> Also, fwiw LP 1566999.  Not had a chance to check it at all.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1566999 in thunar-dropbox-plugin (Ubuntu) "Causes Dropbox to crash when context menu item selected" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566999
<bluesabre> at the same time, the latest dropbox client seems pretty broken in ubuntu
<Unit193> bluesabre: Just add unset DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS  to dropboxd under .dropbox-dist, no?
<bluesabre> Unit193: dunno, I only opened it recently to finish moving my stuff to owncloud
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-07
<knome> bluesabre, btw, if i didn't pass the info to you yet and you didn't catch it, we have an ACK for the community wallpaper upload without any extra paperwork as long as it lands before the final freeze
<knome> with that, i'm off for today
<knome> see you tomorrow
<krytarik> bluesabre: Can we keep -hinted too, please? :'(
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, this weekend doesn't look good for me, but I don't think I really need to be there.
<bluesabre> krytarik: testing currently, hard to test without pushing directly to meta
<bluesabre> krytarik: is -cjk not hinted?
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: alrighty, np
<krytarik> bluesabre: The two cover different scripts, anyway. :D
<bluesabre> ah, was under the impression that -cjk was just more unicode complete
<krytarik> I think it'd make sense at that point to add the whole 'fonts-noto' package, though.
<Unit193> ...Can we keep the huge ones out? :P
<bluesabre> seemingly not
<bluesabre> alrighty
<bluesabre> so add * (fonts-noto-hinted) back to the seed and leave -default-settings as-is
<bluesabre> should make everybody happy
<bluesabre> krytarik, Unit193: sound agreeable?
<krytarik> Yeah.
<krytarik> Leaves out Mono, but oh well. :P
<Unit193> Presuming that leaves -hinted with x-d-s, yeah.  Though I do like me some -noto-mono. :P
<bluesabre> yeah, we don't use that though (for now)
<bluesabre> yes
<Unit193> Yeah, Dejavu Mono.
<Unit193> Uhh.. Wow, that's so much worse than I remembered. >_<
<Unit193> After this operation, 115 MB of additional disk space will be used.
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> but hey, build-essential is gone now :D
<Unit193> That's big enough to replace firefox.
<bluesabre> "Committed revision 999."
<bluesabre> oh boy
<bluesabre> and running germinate
<bluesabre> bbiab
<Unit193> Speaking of which, anyone else use thunar-dropbox-plugin?
<bluesabre> knome, slickymaster: are -docs translations ready to upload?
<knome> bluesabre, both finnish and portuguese user-docs translations are at 100%
<knome> spanish is missing 16 strings
<knome> german 73
<knome> french 274
<Unit193> es.po   98.1714%, ru.po   91.8857%, de.po   91.6571%
<knome> oh right russian missing 71
<knome> i guess the situation is what it is
<knome> bluesabre, so; ack from me for the upload
<tracker9> knome, how do i help in translation?
<knome> tracker9, https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs
<Unit193> Seems we need a bigger disclaimer that we can't approve strings.
<knome> tracker9, but you need to be a member of a translation team, and that's another question...
<knome> indeed
<knome> i'll send a reminder mail to dpm
<knome> sigh
<tracker9> knome, but can i make a suggestions in translation without being a member?
<Unit193> Amusingly, de and ru are in the lead with contributor docs.
<tracker9> Btw, which version of xserver is present in 16.04?
<knome> !info xorg xenial
<ubottu> xorg (source: xorg): X.Org X Window System. In component main, is optional. Version 1:7.7+13ubuntu3 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 54 kB
<Unit193> !info xserver-xorg xenial
<ubottu> xserver-xorg (source: xorg): X.Org X server. In component main, is optional. Version 1:7.7+13ubuntu3 (xenial), package size 55 kB, installed size 240 kB
<knome> Unit193, the same, the same :P
<Unit193> knome: Yeah, trying to hit another.  It is 1.18.3
<Unit193> 'xorg-server' is the source package..
<tracker9> So it is bundled with the latest one?
<knome> !team | at any time you have some free time, please check out http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mm-cloud and add your comments about the cloud services
<knome> ubottu, ping
<ubottu> pong
<ubottu> pong!
<knome> oh right, url
<knome> !team | at any time you have some free time, please check out the ubuntu pad named "xubuntu-mm-cloud" and add your comments about the cloud services
<ubottu> at any time you have some free time, please check out the ubuntu pad named "xubuntu-mm-cloud" and add your comments about the cloud services: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> !team | Next community meeting is scheduled for Sunday, 10 April 2016 16:00 UTC
<ubottu> Next community meeting is scheduled for Sunday, 10 April 2016 16:00 UTC: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
 * bluesabre did his part
<bluesabre> :D
<dkessel> won't be able to be there :p
<Unit193> Likely not.
<bluesabre> hard to accommodate all of us :D
<bluesabre> knome: wasn't expecting to see changes in the docs other than translations - do we need a freeze exception?
<knome> bluesabre, what changes are there?
<bluesabre> knome: changes to user and contributor docs
<bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/xenial/revision/570 - https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/xenial/revision/571 - https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/xenial/revision/572
<bluesabre> time to head to work, more uploads tonight
<bluesabre> flocculant: got some fixes in the pipeline for menulibre, probably be seeing those soon
<knome> bluesabre, hmm, indeed..
<knome> i guess it would only need a string freeze exception, if any
<bluesabre> yup, care to get that for me today, translation freeze is today
<knome> no exceptions required (see #ubuntu-release)
<bluesabre> knome: great
<bluesabre> Unit193: if you're bored and want an upload, you can tackle -docs today, or I'll get to it this evening
<knome> \o/
<bluesabre> ->
<knome> hooray for Unit193 doing the upload!
<knome> (:
<flocculant> bluesabre: nice and nice and nice :p
<ochosi> evening all
<ochosi> how're things?
<flocculant> hey ochosi - good break I hope :)
<ochosi> phew, quite a few submissions to vote on
<flocculant> seems so
<ochosi> and quite a few +5/-5
<ochosi> knome: hm, i think i voted on all of them, but it seems i only have 91/92
<knome> ochosi, now you found the last one
<knome> Unit193, around?
<knome> dkessel, very likely you aren't around, but ping?
<knome> ochosi, want to figure out what to do with the selection now?
<ochosi> knome: can do
<ochosi> knome: seems we have 10 submissions with 0 or more points
<knome> ok
<knome> so my suggestion is:
<knome> make any that has >0 autowin.
<knome> after that, from those which received a total of 0, select those that bring the winners to the most variable selection
<knome> in color, contrasts, subject etc
<knome> and maybe even - submitters
<knome> who decides that is a different question
<knome> of course another option is to set up a community poll to select N from the zeroes, but that would mean we should get it started NOW
<flocculant> is there really time though? 
<Unit193> knome: Now, yes.
<knome> flocculant, i don't think so, which i've kind of feared the whole time
<flocculant> mmm
<ochosi> yeah, it's a bit late for a poll imo
<flocculant> we were too late doing something again 
<flocculant> we were too late doing something again I guess
<ochosi> "make any that has >0 autowin." +1
<knome> flocculant, stuff is ready for the next time now though :)
<knome> Unit193, have you voted on http://contest.xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/The_Sky_Is_The_Limit-1024x686.jpeg ?
<flocculant> that said if "10 submissions with 0 or more points"
<flocculant> what's the issue with using 10?
<knome> Unit193, it is missing one vote, either from you or dkessel
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, i was thinking the same
<ochosi> i would just go with that actually
<knome> well, we said 6
<Unit193> I thought so.
<knome> Unit193, can you double check? :)
<ochosi> oh ok then
<knome> well, obviously it won't create much fuss if we select 10
<flocculant> well 
<flocculant> we could change it :)
<ochosi> yeah, likely
<flocculant> knome: yea
<Unit193> Yes.
<knome> but then it's 10% of the submissions
<knome> (^ not an argument either way, just pointing out)
<flocculant> and tbh - if we had 20 with >0 then I could see a need to trim it
<knome> i'll let the XPL decide
<knome> after all, if all >=0 are selected, both of my submissions are through :P
<ochosi> mine too! :D
<knome> otoh, if only 6 are selected, only one of them could likely survive
<knome> ....which is why i think it would be fair to trim too.
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> the grab addresses from lp thingymajig still works :p
<knome> if it was trimmed to 6 and "only one winner per submitter", then it would be a task of voting 1 from 2 and 1 from 3
<knome> so not a huge issue anyway
<ochosi> the biggest problem is coming up with a reasonable way of trimming
<ochosi> right, that would be an ok solution too
<knome> if we pick all then, then there are two winners with 2 submissions and one with 3
<ochosi> but anyway, i think 10 images are fine too
<knome> which might not feel fair for other contestants
<knome> especially since 2 of those happen to be team members.
<ochosi> true, wouldn't be without precedent though (i think that was the case last time too)
<knome> ochosi, variety in selection
<knome> ^ for "a reasonable way of trimming"
<knome> or die roll.
<knome> :P
<flocculant> knome: perhaps so - but it's all of team voting - and I didn't take any notice of *where* something came from
<knome> flocculant, of course - you couldn't :)
<knome> and tbh, i didn't care about the origin either - one shouldn't
<flocculant> then the argument to not falls down
<ochosi> yeah, which is why i think it's even ok as it is
<knome> flocculant, not really, it might still feel unfair that first we say 6 submissions can win, then we expand to 10 and suddenly one contestant gets 3 submissions in
<ochosi> personally i wouldn't overthink this and say: these 10 came out on top, let's take them
<knome> well, let me give one more argument for stripping
<ochosi> alright then
<knome> if we strip to 6 without limiting the winning submissions a person can have, it's possible that the one with 3 winners (if all 10 are picked) doesn't get any in
<ochosi> not sure i get the argument part there
<knome> well
<ochosi> that just seems to be a fact
<knome> it's still about the subjective fairness 
<flocculant> and what happens if only the *top* of any one submitters submissions get's through
<knome> flocculant, then we have 6 winners from the bunch of 10
<knome> flocculant, well except that the "top 3" for the one that has 3 entries are all level
<knome> so there's necessarily not a difference
<ochosi> i think i'm the only submitter to whom that applies
<knome> yep
<ochosi> knome has two zeros and mike has three
<knome> (and no, i'm not trying to drop ochosi's other submission out)
<flocculant> personally I think we're in danger of getting our knickers in a twist over nothing here :)
<ochosi> knome: yeah, please don't coz it
<ochosi> 's perrty!
<ochosi> :)
<knome> let's put it this way:
<knome> i'd rather get one of my submissions dropped than winning with two
<knome> just because we decided to pick 66% more
<flocculant> let's put it this way:
<ochosi> you can always change your vote on one of them ;)
<knome> ochosi, let me change my votes so that i actually pick which one of the ten win...
<flocculant> we used to have gmb - now we don't - we changed our minds - not sure why it's an issue if we say 10 instead 
<flocculant> we just changed our minds :)
<knome> flocculant, we didn't say "gmb will be the default player for 16.04"
<flocculant> didn't say we did
<knome> flocculant, we did say that "we will pick 6 winners" though
<ochosi> we can also just take 4 and have changed our minds
<knome> i think it's fair to pick 6 (and exactly 6)
<flocculant> knome: there could have been 100 nsfw things - we would have 0
<ochosi> but yeah, i sort of agree with flocculant on the whole knickers topic
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> ochosi, TMI
<flocculant> not sure I'll bring that up again :p
<ochosi> knome: https://xkcd.com/1369/
<flocculant> knome: team could have all just voted for 3
<knome> true
<flocculant> with everything else -
<knome> flocculant, of course.
<flocculant> how would we get 6 :)
<knome> we wouldn't.
<knome> that's not how this vote worked ;)
<knome> this vote worked like "upvote everything you want in"
<knome> :P
<flocculant> yup
<knome> and those with positive points have got more upvotes than not
<ochosi> yeah, it wasn't designed to get exactly 6
<flocculant> and if all of had just upvoted 3 images
<knome> so they are definitely winners, we can't drop any of those
 * ochosi goes to change all of his votes *now*
<knome> flocculant, then we would have went to the minuses :P
<knome> i still think we should pick exactly 6
<flocculant> I still think - danger of exploding knickers
<knome> all positives, one 0 from me and one 0 from mike
<knome> this isn't even overthinking
<knome> it's just "one winner per contestant"
<ochosi> where contestant is submitter, not author
<knome> yes
<knome> indeed
<ochosi> which is where i feel that logic fails a little
<knome> well
<flocculant> who's mike anyway? 
<knome> flocculant, somebody from the community :)
<ochosi> flocculant: mike's a winner baby ;)
<flocculant> oic
<flocculant> I thought I read they'd voted :p
<flocculant> that got past me ... 
<ochosi> i don't think anybody knows him here
<knome> ochosi, in all truth, the next contest we run i will try to get a "only own work" policy in the terms...
<knome> that let's us skip this "it feels our logic fails" part
<ochosi> knome: sure, we sort of had that previously (implicitely at least)
<knome> because obviously mike could have told 10 of his friends to submit different work of his
<ochosi> yeah, so one per author then?
<knome> i'm fine with that too if it's 6 total.
<ochosi> well you know it isn't
<flocculant> and what if it's not? 
<knome> ;'(
<ochosi> and as i said before, i don't think that it's that which counts
<ochosi> why 6 btw?
<knome> because we said we will pick 6...
<flocculant> arbitrary iirc
<knome> we picked 6 the last time.
<flocculant> could have been 5 or 7
<knome> so it made sense to keep with that
<flocculant> until now ... 
<flocculant> :p
<knome> quoting for truth: "After the submission deadline, the Xubuntu team picks 6 winners from all submissions which will get included on the Xubuntu ISO and available for all Xubuntu users."
<knome> :P
<knome> from http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-16-04-wallpaper-competition/
<knome> we could have said "at least 6" if we wanted to make sure we can do whatever we want
<knome> i think 6 is also about the right amount
<flocculant> we're not voting on something liefe or death here
<knome> i don't remember the thinking process from the last time, but clearly we thought 6 was a good number back then too :)
<knome> flocculant, indeed not - so let's keep it as 6 as we said ;)
<flocculant> we can just say "Given the choices we had and the voting the team made, we ended up with 10 we couldn't easily decide between - so we've gone for 10'
<knome> we didn't even try to decide
<flocculant> perhaps before it was a space on iso thing
<knome> space issues are still space issues
<knome> granted, 4 wallpapers isn't a huge hit, but it's the small hit on top of everything else we have
<flocculant> and if we're not caring about 120Mb font packages that are only really useful for some people ... 
<knome> well, that's a different discussion for other people to decide on
<knome> ok, partly the same people, but here, not me
<flocculant> anyway - whatever ochosi says is good to go works for me - because all 6 (or 10) will be a pointless bandwidth thing for me anyway :)
<knome> the more i think why i think it should be 6 and not 10, the more i feel like it's because it's fair there's can be only one winning submission per submitter
<ochosi> sry, was afk on baby duty
<flocculant> \o/
<knome> :)
<flocculant> good man :p
<knome> i did my duties earlier in the day...
<flocculant> I did mine years ago 
<ochosi> knome: the way i remember last time we had lots and lots of mediocre/bad submissions and we picked the 6 we felt we could actually ship...
<ochosi> and we had really long discussions about the results
<knome> ochosi, maybe
<flocculant> maybe?
<knome> i said earlier i don't remember
<flocculant> sounds like something I could say happened without being there :D 
<ochosi> i don't think that one submission per submitter is "fair" in any sense of "fairer" than taking more of one
<ochosi> plus for me it's about *authors* if you wanna make it about fairnes
<Hoscko> Hello ! I'm not a dev but can i See the ten wallpapers you like ?
<ochosi> s
<ochosi> if someone submits >1 good pics that are not by him why care? those are still good picks
<flocculant> ochosi: and enough -team agreed it was 
<ochosi> yeah
<flocculant> Hoscko: so if you're not in Xubuntu Team - but have a vague idea what we're talking about - as someone from the community - would you care if we chose 10 instead of the 6 we said we would? 
<ochosi> Hoscko: currently the wallpaper submissions aren't all publicly visible
<Hoscko> Well I would say that people who choose to use Xubuntu would like to have more choice. But there is a space limit in the iso as I've understood ?
<ochosi> there is only a soft limit
<ochosi> we skipped the 1GB limit we previously had
<ochosi> but yeah, we try to stay as low as we reasonably can
<Unit193> And considering we hav -cjk, I don't think the limit matters. :/
<flocculant> I said that sort of already :)
<Unit193> How much bigger are we actually even talking?
<ochosi> you mean for the wallpapers?
<flocculant> 4 images
<ochosi> around 6mb or so
<ochosi> (my guess)
<knome> depends if we push original size, or just 2560x1600
<knome> if original, then likely more
<Hoscko> If there's a soft limit, I would say let's go for ten, people just love having cool wallpapers.
<knome> pleia2, ping
<ochosi> knome: i'd go with 2560x1600
<Unit193> Indeed.
<Hoscko> I don't think there's a lot of people having bigger resolution
<ochosi> we're in a bit of a pickle either way, limiting the selection to 6 now might feel arbitrary to the ones who voted, "upgrading" to 10 might feel arbitrary to others (knome at least)
<Hoscko> Let's go fully arbitrary, let's take 8 XD
<ochosi> Hoscko: we're considering that too (;
<knome> i'd say 7.5 would be the best
<flocculant> 9.5
<Unit193> 9.1
<ochosi> 7.7
<flocculant> ochosi: you shouldn't be mucking about - we're waiting for you to close your eyes and type 6 or 10 :p
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> if i knew the python random number generator generated *really* random numbers, i'd ask it
<Unit193> ubottu: random 6 10
<ubottu> 6
<ubottu> Unit193: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<knome> ubottu is the best
<ubottu> knome: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<knome> no, not intelligent, just the best
<ochosi> ubottu: random 6 10
<ubottu> ochosi: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<Hoscko> Is there any way for me to see the selection ? Maybe some are similar ?
<ochosi> Unit193: you seem to be on better terms with him ;)
<knome> ubottu, random 6 6
<ubottu> 6
<ubottu> knome: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<knome> !!
<knome> must be 6...
<Unit193> ochosi: Yeah, us bots, gotta stick together.
<ochosi> :D
<knome> us bots and knome 
 * ochosi feels sorry for european bots
<knome> and non-ubuntustudio bots too
<knome> ok, fine; i'm ok to include all 10
<knome> who contacts the winners?
<knome> oh right, me
<knome> (:
<ochosi> knome: i'm ok with waiting for more team members to have their say too
<ochosi> as long as we don't wait too long (maybe a day or so)
<ochosi> if we're as split on this issue as we are on the "top 10" we can have yet another vote! :D
<knome> i'd like to hear pleia2's comments too, but as the decision is ultimately yours, i don't think it makes much difference if you don't think you can be convinced with 6
<flocculant> \o/
 * ochosi waits for his time as the big tie-breaker
<knome> ochosi, start eating then
<flocculant> that was for the vote comment btw :p
<knome> can't be the big breaker if you aren't big
<ochosi> knome: waiting is ok, i'm open to 6 too. but as i said, with what we discussed so far i'm leaning to 10
<knome> ochosi, i guess the other question is - when will you be around the next time?
<ochosi> tomorrow during the day
<knome> ok, then let's do so
<ochosi> around 9 to 4 or so (my time, that is)
<knome> i can even start an email thread where people can say what they think
<ochosi> sure, whichever way you see fit
<knome> not a vote or anything, just to gather feedback
<ochosi> as long as i don't have to read walls of text
<flocculant> ha ha ha
<knome> of course you have to (:
 * ochosi facepalms
<knome> i can add a policy "no walls of text"
<knome> ochosi, team only? want to show the top 10 or not?
<ochosi> "your feedback is limited to *one* wall of text per submitter, not author."
<knome> ochosi, so i can send my mum's wall of text?
<knome> ochosi, i'll let you know you wouldn't want that.
<knome> ochosi, it's in finnish to begin with
<ochosi> i.e. feel free to send me your favorite wittgenstein quotes
<knome> ochosi, and not related to the contest
<ochosi> knome: yeah, the voters for now
<ochosi> those can see the results anyway
<knome> ochosi, so essentially one per submitted? :P
<knome> ochosi, nope, only -website actually
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> hmm
<knome> though i can make -team admins now so everybody can see it
<ochosi> you can also attach a screenshot of the list ;)
<knome> or a list of winner urls
<knome> :P
<ochosi> yeah, any of that is fine
<knome> that's what i was asking
<knome> do we want to share that list with all or not?
<ochosi> all is public?
<knome> (in the sense that is it meaningful)
<ochosi> i would only share it with -team as i'd rather not create the illusion that it's a community vote/decision
<ochosi> (as we ruled that out before because of the timeline)
<knome> if you don't think the submitters/authors matter, then we can make team admins; if you think it matters; then not
<knome> sure, i'll send off any list
<knome> since the walls of text are too obvious if i send to list
<ochosi> since our discussion focused on submitters/authors it would seem strange to not share that information
<knome> oki
<knome> i'll make everybody admins then
<ochosi> k then
<knome> just a minute while i push the switch
<ochosi> thnks
<knome> and done
<knome> non -website -team members might need to reloing
<knome> relogin too
<knome> and next onto the mail
<ochosi> alrighty, next onto bed (for me)
<ochosi> have a good one! :)
<flocculant> ochosi: night :)
<knome> good night
<knome> the good morning will come in the form of walls of text
<knome> and some dry weetabix
<Hoscko> Good night Ochosi
<knome> in the face
<knome> :]
<flocculant> ewww
<ochosi> yuck
<flocculant> yes - never good whichever way it is 
<ochosi> thanks for that last mental image before going to bed :)
<knome> ochosi, always (:
<ochosi> ->
<flocculant> knome: so - if submitter can only *win* once - then there are 6 
<knome> flocculant, yes, but we have to pick *which* of their submission wins
<knome> which seems to be the arbitrary process :)
<knome> and which indeed is a bit
<flocculant> knome: for 2 submitters - right? 
<knome> yes
<knome> of which the other is me, and i can make that pick easy - i'll just drop my other submission
<flocculant> we should have said needs to be a positive total
<flocculant> then we'd have 5 :D
<knome> no, 4
<flocculant> oh yea
<knome> we would still have had the problem of picking two more
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> anyway - more than enough time spent on that now ;)
 * flocculant goes back to arbitrarily picking thunar bugs for the release note
<flocculant> or bed now I see the time ... 
<flocculant> night all 
<Hoscko> flocculant: Good night !
<knome> night flocculant :)
<knome> mail sent
<pleia2> I can't make the time right now to read the backscroll, but I replied to the thread
<bluesabre> that *should* be the last important translation uploads
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-08
<bluesabre> Unit193: ah... the meeting is a hangout?
<flocculant> bluesabre: morning - and I would guess it is
<flocculant> anything to do with that community team generally is 
 * bluesabre would prefer IRC at this hour
 * flocculant would prefer IRC at any hour - some people are really hard to understand however awake you are :p
<Unit193> bluesabre: Crap, it is?
<flocculant> ask dpm - he's probably about in ubuntu-community-team now, if he's not then dholbach will be 
<bluesabre> Unit193: can go without video
<Unit193> bluesabre: This is going to be fun...
<flocculant> did a time get picked yet? 
<Unit193> Yep, now.
<flocculant> oh good luck then :p
<Unit193> Indeed, didn't have time to setup a mic.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Did I miss anything about any dpkg/apt integration at all?  Even most basic levels?
<bluesabre> it's different than apt, doesn't break apt, coexists with apt
<Unit193> Right, like pip/gems..
<bluesabre> Unit193: really good question
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thanks, you had great ones.
<bluesabre> the questions relevant to me :D
<ochosi> hi folks
<ochosi> can't be @hangout
<ochosi> is it still ongoing?
<flocculant> morning ochosi 
<flocculant> cya all later 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi, yes, will link you the youtube link when its done
<bluesabre> (ubuntu snappy meeting, Unit193 and I are there)
<bluesabre> This does seem better than My Apps, which had a horribly slow review queue and required a new upload for every ubuntu release
<Unit193> I don't know anything of My Apps.
<Unit193> Wonder how support will be. :3
<Unit193> support == user support.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hah, just what I was going for.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: You're awsome, thanks for staying up.  Get some good rest.
<bluesabre> ha
<bluesabre> I went to bed and set an alarm
<bluesabre> and now I'll probably go back to bed :D
<Unit193> ...I just got home in time for it.
<bluesabre> ochosi: they'll probably publish a link to it a bit later
<bluesabre> main takeaways...
<bluesabre> coexists with apt
<bluesabre> snappy apps are launched by ubuntu-snappy-cli
<Unit193> Basically lives in chroots (squashfs filesystems), is for content providers to get content to end users.
<bluesabre> libraries are contained within the snaps (and in the future may be in separate library snaps)
<bluesabre> updates to the snappy system with be backported to 16.04 as they come along
<bluesabre> *will
<bluesabre> sounds like a pretty good system, and I can see a lot of use cases with it
<bluesabre> Unit193: the old MyApps - https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/publish/ - biggest problem was things staying in "Awaiting moderation" for months at a time, making it faster to get things into Debian NEW and finding a MOTU to sync it back to Ubuntu :|
<Unit193> Hah, wow.  Niiice.
<bluesabre> and the general issue with having to republish for every ubuntu release you wanted your stuff to be on
<bluesabre> menulibre was there at the beginning :D
<Unit193> So, might be fun to poke with a stick, I'm not against them, but I don't really see me using them either.
<Unit193> Yeah, was in extras.
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> its pretty cool for their IOT and embedded devices, I think its something like "snappy deploy $something $ip" to punt an app to a device
<bluesabre> anyway, back to bed for me
<bluesabre> night/morning all
<Unit193> Not as useful on the desktop, but informative and as I said, not against it.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Sleep well.
<Unit193> Suppose that should go on the agenda.
<pavlushka> suspend resumes to black screen.
<pavlushka> and hi Every one!
<flocculant> Unit193 bluesabre - thanks for going there to see what the crack is with it :)
<flocculant> Unit193: agenda - might be useful to do that - saves going over the same ground over and over :p
<flocculant> hi pavlushka 
<pavlushka> Hi flocculant !!! :)
<pavlushka> flocculant, what do I do? tested more than 3 times today.
<flocculant> what do you mean by what do I do? 
<pavlushka> suspend resumes to black screen
<flocculant> report it 
<flocculant> once
<pavlushka> ok
<pavlushka> using ubuntu manual test or LP bug?
<flocculant> you don't report bugs with the tracker - it's not possible
<flocculant> you list on the tracker the bug you've reported through launchpad via ubuntu-bug
<flocculant> pavlushka: is this your system that's got the broken screen that you have to use an external monitor on? 
<flocculant> if that's the case you need to make it plain
<pavlushka> yes
<pavlushka> plain means removing the external monitor?
<flocculant> no plain means making it obvious that you've got a broken laptop and external monitor in the report
<pavlushka> definitely I will as I did for the previous.
<pavlushka> but thanks for pointing.
<pavlushka> the priority gets hi.
<flocculant> then wait for responses - no need to keep adding things, changing affected packages
<pavlushka> awee, you got that!
<flocculant> got what? 
<pavlushka> what you said, I did it for a bug. I was just not sure.
<flocculant> bbl
<pavlushka> ok
<knome_tracker> 'lo
<krytarik> knome_tracker: LOL
<knome_tracker> krytarik: what?
<krytarik> Nothing. :X
<knome_tracker> i don't have access to my ssh host as i don't have my private key on my mum's laptop
<knome_tracker> ...for a reason
<Elroy> Hi Xubuntu Dev-Team - The Compton Problem with nVidia Driver over 352.-- is permanent and at 16.04 on AMD ("iommu=soft") + nVidia 970GTX - Install FAILS !
<knome_tracker> compton?
<Elroy> Coming later back ...
<knome_tracker> that's not in the default install
<Elroy> but its only a tearfree xcomposiotr
<knome_tracker> don't get me wrong; i'd like it to work, but is it compton the reason the install is failing?
<Elroy> no
<knome_tracker> what is then?
<knome_tracker> have you filed a bug?
<Elroy> the reason is a problem with usb ("iommu=soft") and AMD Mainboard with iommu hard
<knome_tracker> so.. you are adding a kernel boot option and then the installation doesn't work?
<knome_tracker> in any case... have you filed a bug?
<Elroy> Xubuntu 15.10 works fine to Install, but 16.04 can`t start the Nouveau Driver for the Install and writes the message "Live CD working in Progress - working - but hold on"
<Elroy> Ojn Ubuntu MATE 16.04 there are not this fail
<Elroy> and Ubuntu 16.04 also have not this fail
<knome_tracker> ...have you filed a bug?
<Elroy> i read about the compton fail with nVidia Driver up to 364.-- (tthere is now another competition about OpenGL - xrender doesn`t work on my machine
<Elroy> must do now - the prob is - i can`t get a screenshot
<Elroy> only my hardware constellation i can send you
<knome_tracker> that's a start
<knome_tracker> but please do not intertwine the compton issue to this
<knome_tracker> if it's related, then it's not high priority for us
<Elroy> working for a long time with xubuntu - it`s the first time i have this failure
<knome_tracker> if it's not, it's better not mention it in the bug
<knome_tracker> it sounds weird to me that this bug only happens with xubuntu, and it might be hard to reproduce, but...
<Elroy> understand that compton another point is - excuse for my english, i`m 60 years old and coming from austria - german
<knome_tracker> that's ok
<Elroy> Interessting - Ubuntu-Gnome fails not - but budgie-remix have the same problem
<krytarik> Elroy: Extending on what knome_tracker just said, did you checksum the image?
<Elroy> yess
<Elroy> with gnash and thunar
<Elroy> i downloaded three times another image - every time the same
<krytarik> !md5sum | Elroy
<ubottu> Elroy: To verify your Ubuntu ISO image (or other files for which an MD5 checksum is provided), see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM or http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/answers/LQ_ISO/Checking_the_md5sum_in_Windows
<Elroy> okm prob this ... no i`m waiting for a upgrade and driving with version 15.10 without any probs
<Elroy> thxs for writng and tipps - see you
<krytarik> Thanks as well.
<knome_tracker> Elroy: and please file the bug... :P
<Elroy> stay only in future with xubuntu - before i have testing for my linux-forum 35 distros, but for playing ist this the best
<Elroy> make this
<Elroy> bye
<Nairwolf> hi guys ;) I've been away from computers recently. What's new ? We're after the kernel freeze. Do you need more tests ? 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: we always do - but if you want to hang on for a few days - next week will see the start of the release candidate testing fortnight
<davmor2> flocculant: pfff next week I've been at it 3 days already ;)
<Nairwolf> flocculant: okay, I should be able to be present. 
<Nairwolf> Maybe this week, I will try to help to improve french translations
<flocculant> davmor2: :)
<flocculant> davmor2: I just want to double check my triple check before I ask people to test upgrades ... 
<davmor2> flocculant: they work but keep it quiet because someone will break it if you tell them
<flocculant> yea - that's what my triple check found out :p
<flocculant> knome: perhaps you could explain some arcane wiki wobblyness - target wiki page does not exist - copy from existing to target - can't do that target exists ... 
 * flocculant just put it down to some strangeness that tends to accrue around ubuntu wiki(s) 
<ochosi> evening
<ochosi> knome: including the back and forth it seems that the team is leaning towards option 2) (10 winners)
<flocculant> ochosi: good evening :)
<knome> i'm feeling down because no more wittgenstein quotes were exchanged in the thread
<knome> ochosi, in any way time is tight, and now we need to contact more winners
<knome> who's volunteering for that?
<knome> i mean i can do it at latest tomorrow, but if somebody can do it before..
<flocculant> knome: I can do that - have any gone out yet at all? 
<flocculant> and any pro-forma mail? 
<flocculant> hey dude - your submission will be in the package we seed with xenial - congrats for thats
<flocculant> and it's 2 people ... 
<knome> flocculant, none gone out
<knome> flocculant, we also need to check the attribution name
<knome> flocculant, especially in cases it isn't clearly something they'd want to be called
<knome> flocculant, maybe we can cowrite it in a pad
<knome> unless you did it already :)
<flocculant> nope - done nothing as I wasn't sure what had been done
<knome> :D
<knome> nothing was done
<flocculant> :)
<knome> i'll open a pad
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xx-wallpaper-winners
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> having trouble opening the contest site 
<knome> mm
<knome> actually i'm thinking we should "TO" these mails to the xubuntu contacts mailing list so we have a sensible archive of the replies
<flocculant> xubuntu contacts? 
<knome> yeah
<flocculant> no idea wth that is
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-contacts
<flocculant> oh one of those private jobs
<knome> it says "only members of the xubuntu team are subscribed to this list" but it means "only xubuntu team members *can* subscribe to this list"
<knome> yep
<knome> (that said, if anybody wants access, feel free to poke me)
<knome> it's not a very exciting list really though
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> I'm certainly not going to TO that list and get spammed by moderation messages
<Unit193> flocculant: FWIW, I remember discussions about when it was created, and since then it has been mentioned several times. :3
<knome> it mostly has communication with the officially endorsed vendors
<flocculant> Unit193: possibly I have heard of it - but so infrequently I just *shrug* 
<flocculant> knome: right
<Unit193> Right, I didn't know I could have access, but I never really checked either.  Then again, most of the time I follow via archives. >_>
<knome> and a test email from lyz with the topic "Fruit"
<flocculant> ha ha 
<Unit193> Hah!
<knome> Unit193, archives are private ;)
<Unit193> Yes, figured.
<flocculant> knome: moderating needed 
<knome> flocculant, if you want to be subbed, i can do that, or if you rather not get more mail, i can add you to the auto-mod list
<flocculant> I subbed
<flocculant> ^^
<knome> oh ;)
<knome> let's see..
<flocculant> didn't think about auto-modding
<knome> approved
<flocculant> I'll likely unsub later :p
<knome> wfm too
<flocculant> thanks
<flocculant> ok - happy to TO that list now :p
<flocculant> still not getting to the site
<knome> i really don't mind who of the team is subbed, mostly i think most do not need to be subbed..
<knome> pff :)
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2016-April/001179.html that can be nice.
<knome> flocculant, let me try something
<flocculant> read that - mmm - over there in the wall above my head :p
<flocculant> Unit193: ^^
<Unit193> flocculant: Ah, well it's handy, means less delta to Debian. \o/
<knome> actually i seem to be having trouble with the contest site too
<knome> >__<
<flocculant> ;)
<flocculant> bluesabre: what is the latest date for packaging the wallpapers? 
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i'm feeling blue too, no more wittgenstein quotes plus flocculant broke his vow never to bring up the knickers again
<flocculant> ochosi: well 
<knome> yeah, knickers should be left *down*
<flocculant> mailing list was a new set of knickers :p
<knome> flocculant, able to log in now
<ochosi> flocculant: well a fresh pair is the least i'd expect!
<flocculant> knome: nope
<knome> bluesabre, i guess you'd like to push before final freeze? :P
<knome> flocculant, i mean i am..
<knome> i logged you out from all sessions
<knome> so you can try again now
<knome> ochosi, what kind of scrutiny do you think we should take with unsplash stuff?
<knome> ochosi, does unsplash give any contact addresses for a friendly notification?
<knome> apparently not necessarily
<ochosi> knome: not that i know of
<ochosi> i think it's up to the authors
<knome> yep
<knome> all the way up to the authors
<knome> :X
<flocculant> in there now - nipping out - back soon
<knome> ochosi, plz join the pad and read the last line
<knome> ochosi, and tell me: if no confirmation, will we just expect the details are ok, or boot?
<ochosi> not sure why we need confirmation for something that is already on a website..?
<ochosi> so anyway, i wouldn't boot those submissions
<ochosi> even if unconfirmed
<knome> okay, so just expect details are right
<ochosi> cause the authors already "confirmed" the details initially on unsplash
<knome> yeah, but some people didn't "get" what attribution means
<knome> so they inserted name of work there
<ochosi> yeah, but in unsplash it's clear
<knome> yes, but we aren't even talking just about unsplash
<knome> actually we are talking everything BUT unsplash
<ochosi> :)
<knome> hmmh
<knome> so since we are doing something for archival, should we actually attach (a thumnail of) the submission to the mail so that gets archived too
<knome> instead of relying on some arbitrary urls
<knome> ochosi, you realize 16UTC on sat is less than 24 hours from now?
<ochosi> i didn't set that time/date :)
<knome> i wrote sunday
<knome> you corrected it to saturday
<knome> "corrected"
<ochosi> oh, maybe i mistyped then
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> i mean that can be earlier on sunday
<knome> it all depends when sean is around to upload
<knome> i'm fine with a 24-hour window too
<knome> so likely 21UTC on sat
<knome> but the more time we can give, the better
<ochosi> yeah, up to bluesabre (or whoever uploads finally)
<knome> maybe greenknife picks up the upload this time
<Unit193> bluesabre: Get anywhere on thunar?
<pavlushka> Hi every one!
<pavlushka> the dist-upgrade is not supposed to behave like this I think, http://paste.ubuntu.com/15698126/
<Unit193> It can.
<pavlushka> then where's the different between "sudo apt-get upgrade & sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" ?
<pavlushka> *diffenerce
<Unit193> dist-upgrade will install new stuff, basically.  That can mean something conflicts that you have installed though.
<pavlushka> is code-block conflicting with gcc then?
<flocculant> ok back again
<knome> flocculant, i'm pretty happy with the mail
<knome> flocculant, needs a bit of tweaking for some bits
<flocculant> yea just looking for Inglish :p
<knome> flocculant, would probably make sense to rename the files to something other than their original names
<ochosi> bbabl
<knome> flocculant, and the thumbnail (600x in width, shown in the result overview) should be fine
<knome> actually, that reminds me of something meh
<flocculant> knome: where are you getting thumbnails from then? 
<knome> we need to crop some of the images
<knome> flocculant, right-click the image on the results page, click view image
<knome> gives you for example -> http://contest.xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/squirreledit-600x375.jpg
<flocculant> aah right 
<pavlushka> Unit193, what should I do then? can I fix it with a command or I have to uninstall the held back packages?
<knome> the images that needs cropping are sent by me and ochosi 
<knome> so no need to mention that in the mail specifically
<flocculant> will the contest url for the thumbnail remain? eg use that to grab the image in the mail I send
<flocculant> or grab it to local and use that
<knome> grab to local and attach to the mail
<knome> the urls will not remain and i don't want to think what url would be static enough
<flocculant> okey doke
<knome> attaching to mail makes them stick with the info, so it's the best
<knome> might be that moderating is required anyway then though :P
<knome> because file size
<knome> by all you mean including me and ochosi?
<flocculant> yep
<knome> sure, totally
<flocculant> wasn't going to originally :)
<knome> what i meant about not needing to mention resolution issues
<knome> is that we know that already and i can do the cropping tomorrow
<flocculant> yup
<pavlushka> Unit193, a request, if it is possible to suggest anything before I go to sleep.
<flocculant> knome: happy with that pad?
<Unit193> Eh?
<knome> flocculant, yeah
<flocculant> ok - biab then ... 
<pavlushka> its 3 am here, I was gonna go sleep but the problem happened.
<knome> flocculant, give me a ping when you've sent them out and i'll make sure they get approved
<knome> flocculant, and for sanity, please send multiple files with the same mail when same submitter :P
<flocculant> knome: I'll do a real draft of one on the pad first 
<knome> just duplicate the appropriate lines
<knome> ack
<flocculant> knome: yea - I had fully intended to only send one mail when I could :)
<Unit193> pavlushka: It's not really a big deal, sleep, it'll still be there tomorrow.
<knome> i'm watching a series, but i'm responsive (i can pause easily)
<flocculant> okey doke 
<pavlushka> feeling sleepy, Good night guys!
<flocculant> knome: this link? https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
<knome> mhm
<knome> sorry, could have dug it up
<flocculant> np
<flocculant> knome: check the pad please
<knome> flocculant, let's not use the url at all
<flocculant> submission one
<knome> see pad
<flocculant> I am :)
<knome> because the url is gone in a few weeks
<knome> flocculant, ah, you're right
<knome> let me see the naming convention
<knome> i mean
<flocculant> http://contest.xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/squirreledit-600x375.jpg 
<knome> let's use a name that will be the final name *in the package* 
<knome> well
<knome> right
<knome> maybe you are right indeed
<flocculant> actually that's not the case  rename
<flocculant> re name
<flocculant> it's called 
<knome> this is indeed best
<knome> (in pad)
<flocculant> home/wolf/blah :p
<knome> so basically you want to remove -xxx-xxx from the filename
<flocculant> yup 
<flocculant> ok - cool - thanks 
<knome> yeah, you're absolutely right, it makes most sense this way
<knome> my bad :P
<knome> also
<flocculant> ok - I'll go with that now 
<knome> no!
<knome> :P
<knome> the () stuff in attribution and name of work
<knome> are intended to be sent to recipients
<flocculant> what? 
<knome> see pad again
<knome> maybe we can group the lines better
<flocculant> yea - the submission bit makes sense
<knome> it makes for attribution too
<knome> if you look at the winning submissiond
<flocculant> the attribution one is just what they said in the first place
<knome> for one of them, the author clearly misunderstood the attribution field
<flocculant> yellowjacket
<knome> yeah
<flocculant> you mean :)
<knome> and since many are "Untitled", we want the author(s) to be able to name their work now
<knome> if they want
<flocculant> yea that makes more sense now
<knome> is your nick "ochosi" on the pad?
<knome> :P
<flocculant> mine?
<knome> oh no
<knome> i only saw me and him on the nick list before i refreshed :D
<flocculant> :)
<knome> yep, i'm fine with that now
<flocculant> ok - biab then :)
<knome> as long as all the content that is there goes through, the formatting is more or less minutiae
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> I'll bold the 'incorrect' line in the one I send out
<knome> :D
<knome> hahah, in the queue
<knome> ;)
<knome> flocculant, oops
<knome> (nvm)
<flocculant> sorry pleia2 - didn't see knome's random line in the middle of the drag and drop ... 
<knome> that
<knome> nvm...
<flocculant> ochosi: really the elfenbeint address? 
<flocculant> knome: ^^ cos he's off doing dad stuff :) - xfce.org address? 
<knome> flocculant, PM :)
<flocculant> knome: mmm so for ones that are sourced from unsplash or something and obviously not photo's on a local drive should we put the source url in the mail? 
<flocculant> I guess given it's 2 specific people doesn't hurt
<knome> i would still attach them the same way as others
<knome> we can't depend on unsplash either
<flocculant> I will attach thumbnails ofc
<knome> right, yeah
<knome> you can add the source URL too
<knome> indeed
<flocculant> Original source of the photo: 
<flocculant> I'm putting
<knome> yup
<flocculant> specifically this one - I'll ping ochosi and tell him that perhaps spell it Mountainous
<knome> or hilly
<knome> :P
<flocculant> no really - spillong errir there :)
<knome> :)
<flocculant> knome: ok - all sent now
<knome> and all approved
<flocculant> cool
<flocculant> ochosi: so really - spelling :)
<knome> thanks for taking care
<flocculant> welcome
<flocculant> I care generally :)
<knome> carebears :P
<flocculant> next time
<flocculant> sooner
<flocculant> community voting
<flocculant> or I will be cross
<knome> i'd like to tweak some terms at least
<flocculant> so basically now wait for some to come up with titles at least :p
<knome> would be fun to do a winter contest
<flocculant> perhaps we could do a mid-cycle one 
<flocculant> complete with voting ... 
<knome> would have to be .10..
<flocculant> like 17.10
<flocculant> yea
<knome> yep
<knome> or 16.10 ;)
<flocculant> yea
<knome> 2016 is the 10th anniversary for xubuntu anyway
<flocculant> oh well
<knome> and lots of other activity
<flocculant> then we should for sure do that
<knome> yeah
<knome> just let's pump up the stuff for june first ;)
<flocculant> we have the tool now - no reason why we can't pick it up after that - and get voting end September ish
<flocculant> loads of winter Australia pics :D
<knome> hahah
<knome> indeed
<knome> i also have an improved version of the tool
<knome> :P
<Unit193> knome: I don't like the dev. link in the topic, not a handydandy link to meetings anymore. :(
<knome> boo
<knome> :)
<knome> set up your own channel for meeting topics! (:
<Unit193> Pah, riight.  I just won't look at the agenda. :-----D
<flocculant> was there a link to meetings there? 
<Unit193> knome: Can I not delete wiki apges?
<knome> as if you ever dod
<knome> Unit193, you should be able
<Unit193> flocculant: Nah, just the wiki, which had a handy one to them is all. :P
<knome> Unit193, just edit and save a blank field
<flocculant> knome: seen the mail yet? 
<knome> flocculant, which one?
<Unit193> knome: Eh, can't actually nuke though it seems.
<flocculant> Unit193: aah right
<Unit193> OK, will do.\
<knome> oh
<flocculant> knome: the I screwed up attribution one :p
<knome> yep
<knome> i see it now
<knome> good good
<knome> i thought so
<flocculant> yea :)
<flocculant> I'll reply now
<knome> approved
<Unit193> That's amusing: Last modified: 1970/01/01 00:00 by
<knome> Unit193, fun, isn't it!
<Unit193> knome: I don't suppose you'd actually put it in the header there?
<knome> i guess i did
<knome> :)
<Unit193> knome: Oh, and looked at the dokuwiki output stuff yet?  And, dokuwiki doesn't do template pages like we used to?
<knome> no, haven't
<knome> and don't know about template pages
<knome> do we need such?
<Unit193> Having it on the old wiki was pretty handy, some of us really did stink with meetings more than others.  Still do.
<knome> heh
<Unit193> Look, not trying to be a pain.
<knome> no no, i'm not thinking you are
<knome> but isn't the template for the meeting in the output?
<flocculant> yes 
<knome> just copy-paste everything except the full log
<knome> and that's it
<knome> ...except now that the markup is different and we need to update the output
<flocculant> was just about to say that
<flocculant> and
<flocculant> are we moving meetings *now*
<knome> nope
<Unit193> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/ that.
<flocculant> oh good
<knome> but rather sooner than later, once the output stuff is fixed
<flocculant> knome: I thought we were moving the archive meeting stuff too? 
<flocculant> Unit193: doesn't that just get the name right? 
<knome> Unit193, right, that's just the "pick a page name" stuff :P
<knome> haha, it's echoing
<flocculant> ing
<flocculant> ing 
<flocculant> in
<flocculant> g
<knome> flocculant, i'm not completely sure
<knome> flocculant, it's possible too
<knome> but not worth it before the new meeting minutes are in the wiki
<flocculant> knome: just seems a bit pants to not 
<flocculant> or don't move them
<flocculant> like release notes
<knome> yep
<flocculant> which might be changing post xenial ... 
<knome> yep
<knome> ep
<knome> eo
<flocculant> well
<knome> ep
<knome> p
<knome> p
<knome> p
<knome> *
<knome> .
<knome> .
<flocculant> s/might/will 
<flocculant> :)
<knome>  
<flocculant> then might change back post post xenial
<Unit193> https://www.dokuwiki.org/plugin:commentsyntax that's not default? :(
<knome> actually # comments should work automatically
<flocculant> knome: oh yea - wiki - so when I asked you earlier about copying and it said page existed - perhaps it should say "possibly the page exists if a draft gets used' cos I must have almost done it previously
<knome> hmm
<flocculant> and then not actually saved the page
<flocculant> but that's ubuntu wiki not our one ofc
<knome> oh right
<knome> the ubuntu wiki might say a page exists if it's deleted before
<knome> and then you can't copy to that spot anyway
<flocculant> I scratched my head - then just *meh* copy paste it 
<knome> because essentially it exists in the database
<knome> just not for the user
<flocculant> yep
<knome> until you go see the history
<knome> it's a bit weird indeed..
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> studio have a really comprehensive iso testing wiki page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Testing/ISOTesting
<flocculant> might do similar at our wiki for us - with the ubuntu one - no real control over content
<flocculant> nice to link for testers when they start 
<knome> flocculant, or contributor docs?
<flocculant> would be a ballsache on there I thought
<knome> hahah
<flocculant> that was in fact my first thought
<flocculant> would be better on wiki 
<flocculant> could really be a couple of pages
<flocculant> and wiki changes are ofc immediate
<knome> wfm
<flocculant> might try and dragoon akxwi :)
<Unit193> Since I think people should put their names when adding something to the agenda, I don't like adding things if I won't be there to talk about it (I find that quite annoying when running meetings.)
<knome> Unit193, agree
<Unit193> However, Sean is running it and knows more than I do about Snappy.
<flocculant> I agree too 
<flocculant> I do try and remove things when I have added them
<flocculant> and will miss meeting
<knome> leaving them if they need to be discussed is imo ok even if you miss the meeting as long as your nick is there
<knome> because then it can be skipped quickly if you aren't around and nobody else knows what it's about
<flocculant> add it to 'Discussion' (nick/topic)
<flocculant> I can't imagine anyone saying it's a bad idea
<knome> nope
<flocculant> Unit193: you could for instance do Snappy ( bluesabre/ Unit193)
<flocculant> and then ask bluesabre if he's going to be there :D
<knome> so bluesabre is the nick and Unit193 is the topic?
<knome> :P
<flocculant> oh my
<knome> AHAHAHA
 * knome laughs uncontrollably
 * flocculant adds krytarik to all topics
<Unit193> flocculant: He's running it, and I'm certain I won't be there. :P
<flocculant> Unit193: I knew that :)
<Unit193> knome: Nah, he doesn't want to talk about me.  And I mean he specifically doesn't! :D
<knome> if we do some nick/topic stuff, then we could also put it in a table
<knome> easier to read and prettier
<flocculant> knome: works - worked for FC agenda
<knome> and not so much worse in the markup that it would mean anything
<flocculant> sometimes simple is best
<Unit193> Except, I'm not logged in...
<flocculant> oh right 
<knome> Unit193, ha :P
<flocculant> Unit193: we'll see you in an hour ish then :p
<flocculant> though - it has been pretty responsive lately 
<knome> must have been the xubuntu stuff that was slowing it down then
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> now if only one more flavor leaves, it's ok for the rest of the teams
<Unit193> Nope, I'm still waiting.
<Unit193> Oh right, and tadaaa.  New core.
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> Unit193: real one? 
<flocculant> like for the tracker? 
<Unit193> flocculant: No, only the one that hardly matters. :/
<flocculant> now now old chap
<flocculant> it matters :)
<flocculant> we just can't get it sorted out 
<Unit193> Well, it is unofficial, so really.  It'll be nice when I don't have to do that too. :P
<flocculant> yea ofc
<flocculant> it'll be a good day
<Unit193> Also the official stamp would go great on it. :3
<flocculant> I guess we should let release have a few days off - then really try and get it done for .1
<Unit193> Point releases are harder anyway.
<Unit193> Oh, remembered the wiki, and: Reason: Error reading from remote server
<Unit193> Can someone else add it?
<flocculant> Unit193: sanppy? 
<knome> sanppy indeed
<knome> and croe
<flocculant> cron?
<Unit193> flocculant: That or 'Seeding Snappy'
<Unit193> But, that one covers more just in case.
<flocculant> anything else while I'm managing to edit? 
<Unit193> Can't think of anything, so hope not.  Oooh!  Nuke that core one. >_>
<Unit193> :P
<flocculant> done 
<Unit193> flocculant: BTW, they said they've done a lot of internal QA, and it'd mainly just be adding ubuntu-snappy-cli (26MB on Xubuntu) so that when a user installs a snap from gnome-software, it's actually able to run.  That's the base platform for running them.
<flocculant> good job we let gs in then 
<Unit193> Also, the "rebranding" thing, that's just "Hey, 'Software' isn't very descriptive, maybe we should call it 'Ubuntu Software' or something slightly better."  Heh, well yes, presuming we want to support snaps OOTB.
<flocculant> at least it won't be leaving dependencies around either :p
<Unit193> Right, snaps are self-contained, literally.  They're in a squashfs. :P
<flocculant> assuming I understand these snaps properly
<flocculant> aah cool - so I did \o/ 
<Unit193> I wondered how large each one was, then.
<Unit193> flocculant: Yep, bundled libs and all in one file, basically. :P
<flocculant> love to see an amarok snap ... 
<flocculant> if nothing else I wouldn't need to copy the list of stuff I installed for it :)
<Unit193> I don't really care all *that* much either way, but I'm leaning towards "Eh, lets not seed it."
<flocculant> well I am in the awesome position
<flocculant> do I need to qa this? no - *shrug* 
<Unit193> But if we did, a recommend only in desktop. :P
<knome> pleia2, social media time!
<knome> pleia2, i see you're not idle, no hiding!
<pleia2> I haz working
<pleia2> but can publish now
<knome> yup
<flocculant> pleia2: evening
<knome> so color schemes
<knome> what
<knome> wp says word count 0
<pleia2> sometimes computers are less good at counting
<knome> :|
<knome> it doesn't show any content either
<knome> there it is
<knome> just being very wonky apparently
<knome> well now it isn't there...
<knome> sigh
<knome> loading without js works
<knome> ok, https://xubuntu.org/news/small-details-text-editor-terminal-color-schemes/ is out
<knome> tweeting next
<flocculant> thanks knome :)
<flocculant> 2 nice series of posts these imo
<knome> yep
<knome> now we only need to write the two last articles for the other :D
<knome> flocculant, did the mugshot situation clear up?
<flocculant> lost track
<flocculant> ummm
<flocculant> situation ?
<knome> i mean, the personal info integration article is schedule for monday
<flocculant> oh right
<knome> you wanted to postpone it because something something something
<pleia2> g+ and fb done
<pleia2> back2work
<knome> pleia2, thanks, hf!
 * pleia2 picks up crowbar
<flocculant> afaik - a 'user' with no admin rights can only do a small section of mugshot changes
<Unit193> She's going to give someone a headache..
<knome> right
<knome> Unit193, or maybe the ballache flocculant mentioned earlier
<flocculant> Unit193: ot leg or arm
<flocculant> knome: oooh :(
 * knome giggles
<knome> IT'S SO FLUFFY!
<flocculant> bluesabre: are we stopped now with the mugshot for 'user' changes? 
<knome> so of the planned articles, we still need to write one about wallpaper stuffz
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> and then we have whole release week empty if we want to prod one in on monday for example
<flocculant> glad you have release week open ... 
<knome> on release week tuesday we will publish the last article about media managers though
<flocculant> there is a release announcement to do
<flocculant> there is release testing to do
<knome> yep..
<knome> ack
<flocculant> there is release panics to do
<flocculant> :)
<knome> all panic is slightly better if there's more of it
<knome> gives a nice feeling of accomplishment too
<flocculant> I think that the wallpaper stuff should show *just* before release week
<knome> actually,
<knome> here's an idea
<flocculant> liek Monday or something
<knome> let's bundle it with the contest results
<knome> (well, testers can see it in dailies, but who cares)
<knome> so it could be release week monday for that
<knome> and something else for next weeks friday
<knome> two ideas not yet used are
<flocculant> works for me
<knome> - presentation mode (which is useful btw)
<flocculant> might be
<knome> - workspace stuff (no specific idea)
<flocculant> I'm kind of going to go a bit quiet in a week or so 
<flocculant> about non-qa stuff that is ;)
<knome> heh
<knome> i'd hope the articles for next weeks publishing would be ready at latest early next week
<knome> (except monday, which should be ready before.. monday9
<flocculant> I'd really like us to be a bit quiet on 'things' by next Friday 
<knome> what "things"? :)
<flocculant> we can big it up on Thursday in 2 weeks
<flocculant> anything
<knome> err, are you saying you don't want any articles next week?
<flocculant> I'd like the social stuff to be testing loud once we hit *next* weekend
<flocculant> no no no
<knome> :D
<flocculant> by the Friday latest
<knome> right, yeah
<knome> so let's recap
<knome> next week:
<flocculant> let's put a date on it :)
<knome> monday: small details article
<knome> tuesday: media manager article
<knome> wed: small details
<knome> thu: 
<knome> fri: small details
<knome> weekend off
<knome> then the week after:
<knome> mon: small details/wallpaper contest
<knome> tue: media manager
<flocculant> after the 15th nothing unless I ack it
<knome> and after that, everything is open
<knome> or we can just announce the wallpaper stuff on friday
<knome> and leave the release week open except the media manager article
<flocculant> not too worried about the days - JUST that date :)
<knome> mhm
<knome> the original schedule for the media manager articles was one week earlier, but that didn't work out
<knome> the idea was to keep release week quiet indeed
<flocculant> I'm going to be really pissed if we are warbling about some *thing* when I am desperately trying to drum up testers
<knome> yep
<knome> do you have a schedule planned?
<flocculant> yea I realise the article schedule slipped
<knome> only for media manager stuff
<knome> lots of wiggle room for the details since we decided to publish as many as three articles out per week
<flocculant> knome: I need to try and sit down this week and sort out upgrades/install testing and some sort of order
<knome> ack
<flocculant> and ofc - respins will be an unknown quantity 
<knome> when you know better, poke me and we'll see what kind of publicity stunts we do and when
<knome> then intertwine everything
<flocculant> so planning is a bit of a misnomer :)
<flocculant> yea
<knome> (ultimately (and unfortunately) i think the target audiences for the testing stuff and the article series are a bit different though)
<flocculant> yea ofc they are
<flocculant> totally understand that
<flocculant> but
<flocculant> not something we can sensibly share stage on
<knome> indeed
<flocculant> release has to take precedence here
<knome> the article series are nice, and probably have more audience, but i agree that testing stuff should have more publicity
<flocculant> let me look up at backlog a bit
<knome> we can even coordinate something like twice a day
<knome> for testing, that is
<knome> to try to target EU and US people
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> so there are panels/mugshot not published?
<flocculant> knome: ^^ unwritten ones? 
<flocculant> cos I'm confused with what's not published and your list above ... 
<flocculant> wallpaper is missing is all
<knome> yes
<knome> the wiki isn't up-to-date
<knome> sorry for that :P
<flocculant> was lookign on wordpress actually :)
<knome> oh
<knome> anyway, yeah, wallpaper is only one missing
<flocculant> so actually 2 and that to get in
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> flocculant, ack, UNLESS we want more
<flocculant> knome: can we do the 2 next week - then nothing till release day? 
<bluesabre> flocculant: re: wallpapers, Sunday latest I'd say
<flocculant> wallpaper on release day sounds to me
<bluesabre> Unit193: no progress on Thunar, maybe this weekend
<flocculant> bluesabre: right that's what we said in the end - you'll see the mail :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: changes to mugshot are done
<knome> flocculant, everything else is already next week except that one media manager article
<flocculant> knome: cloud? 
<flocculant> leave it there :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: might have a change to menulibre over the weekend
<bluesabre> just a fix ofc
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok
<knome> cloud is next week, "other options" is last week
<knome> or we can flip
<knome> but cloud is closer to being ready :P
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'm going to aim to get release notes up to date by weekend end - would be awesome if you can find time to look, then I can just update that as things fall in
<bluesabre> flocculant: will do, just ping again as my memory will be reset when i go to sleep tonight :D
<flocculant> knome: mmm - I really want testing to take precedence in the final 7 days 
<knome> flocculant, i understand
<flocculant> bluesabre: oh crap - so who'll remind me to do it :p
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> flocculant, so you'd want to move the wallpaper stuff to release day?
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> I'd like that
<knome> oki
<knome> fortunately we have time to think about that:)
<flocculant> unless the previous weekend at very latest 
<bluesabre> anything else needed from me currently? Friday nights are my chill nights :D
<knome> this next/last/previous thing is getting confusing
<flocculant> I think I can get bluesabre to back me up on not filling social media up with pretty stuff when we really want to get as much testing done as possible :p
<bluesabre> pretty stuff and get us more testers at the same time
<flocculant> knome: hang on - let's get bluesabre to agree with me and I'll give you dates :p
<knome> lol
<bluesabre> lol
<flocculant> bluesabre: ha 
<knome> actually i'm really close to going to bed :P
<knome> but maybe if you're quick..
<flocculant> knome: up to the 15th/16th I don't care :)
<bluesabre> I'm flexible, just let me know what to do
<knome> yep, i got that
<flocculant> after that ask perhaps :)
<knome> bluesabre, sit!
<knome> bluesabre, beg!
<flocculant> ha 
<bluesabre> fix thunar for meeeee!
<knome> bluesabre, paw!
 * bluesabre begs
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> I wish I could 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-09
<knome> bbiab
<bluesabre> I'll see what I can do... there's enough patches thrown around that the actual issue might be nearby
<flocculant> bluesabre: I've kind of narrowed down the thunar things to 2 bugs (both with xfce bugs) rest seem to be 2 or 3 people crashes once ish
<flocculant> on the notes now
<flocculant> *that* patch which appears to not work :(
<bluesabre> knome: if you let me know what screenshots you want, I'm probably going to start working on my own 16.04 blog post soon (which is always stuffed with screenshots)
<flocculant> SRU for thunar again
<flocculant> bluesabre: 1 last thing - please check changelogs for things which seem to come from you - menulibre for instance
<bluesabre> flocculant: will do
<flocculant> though wiki - so we can muck about whenever on the day or after
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> escaping from the computer now, I'll be around throughout the weekend
<flocculant> I doubt many people actually look at them
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey - goodnight :)
<bluesabre> -->
<knome> bluesabre, the usual
<knome> we also need new screenshots for the website btw
<knome> last update with those were 14.04 :P
<flocculant> knome: http://pad.ubuntu.com/aticlerunin
<flocculant> put stuff there 
<flocculant> we can work around things I', sure
<flocculant> the wallpaper one is a bit 'special' I guess :)
<knome> aticle?
<knome> now if the pad only let me log in
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> we need an xubuntu pad :p
<flocculant> knome: check pad chat - easier :)
<knome> sigh release weeks ;)
<flocculant> ;)
<flocculant> all that counts now :D
<Unit193> Backlog, again. :(
<Unit193> bluesabre: Meant the current patch at least, but ok that's even better.
<knome> Unit193, and yet, still no more wittgenstein quotes
<flocculant> I had one 
<flocculant> then I lost it in the dictionary
<knome> anyway
<knome> time to go to bed
<knome> will be back tomorrow
<knome> unfortunately, some of you might think
<knome> so for those of you:
<knome> HAA HAA
<knome> nighty!
<flocculant> night knome :)
<knome> one more thing we could do starting with this cycle is a release-specific "marketing bundle"
<knome> that would include screenshots of the release, the wallpaper for the release, community wallpaper winners (if appropriate), also xubuntu logos (to get the new ones circulating more), the release announcement
<knome> :| @ pad.ubuntu.com
<pavlushka> Hello every one!
<pavlushka> sorry problem fixed for now with only saying hello!, lol
<slickymaster> knome, comments added to http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mm-cloud (in case re. Google Play Music)
<knome> danke schÃ¶n
<knome> wonder if ubuntu one would let me sign in to the website too
<slickymaster> just try it ;)
<knome> i'm trying
<knome> it's just hanging
<bluesabre> knome, comments added to http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mm-cloud (in case re. Pandora)
<bluesabre> slickymaster: stole your words :D
<slickymaster> :P
<slickymaster> sure bluesabre 
<knome> bluesabre, cheerio
<knome> bluesabre, when do you plan doing the wallpaper upload?
<knome> is anybody in the team able to log in to xubuntu.org admin, or is it just me
<knome> ..that isn't able, that is
<knome> same story with contest site for me
<knome> ubuntu one has been wonky today
<Unit193> The seed hit 1000 commits.
<flocculant> knome: if we don't hear from the Mike guy - what we calling those images?
<bluesabre> knome: so, 4 positive, 10 neutrals?
<knome> flocculant, untitled
<knome> bluesabre, yyep.
<bluesabre> knome: alrighty, will get that together tonight
<knome> bluesabre, if you can log in to anything
<knome> >__<
<knome> i'm barely able to log in to pad, but have had no luck logging in to the contest site or the main site today
<krytarik> bluesabre: From the earlier mail: "...we now have 4 winners with positive totals and 6 more with neutral totals."
<knome> oh, right
<knome> duh
<knome> go me
<krytarik> :P
<flocculant> knome: ack 
<Unit193> flocculant: So yes, failing still/now.  Setting up locales again.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-10
<flocculant> Unit193: ok 
<knome> jjfrv8, dkessel: want to add any comments to http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mm-cloud ?
<knome> pleia2, ^ you too
<knome> also anybody interested can check http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mm-other
<flocculant> I did look - just to see if I was interested in that cloudy foofoo stuff - but wasn't :p
<knome> flocculant, sigh :)
<knome> flocculant, i understand you don't like the cloud stuff, and i don't like it much either, but it's still a huge thing for many, so please :)
<knome> anyway, can you log in to any of our wordpress sites?
<knome> i still can't, and i even filed an RT ticket
<knome> going to be fun if this continues to next week
<flocculant> knome: I did look - nothing I could add
<knome> no worries
<knome> but that WP thing??!! :P
<flocculant> knome: checking
<knome> thanks
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> Firefox can't find the server at login.ubuntu.com
<knome> oh
<knome> it can for me though
<flocculant> hang on
<flocculant> in to contest
<knome> i mean at least if i access that url
<knome> on contest it tries to access login.launchpad.net for me (atm)
<knome> if i go to that or l.o.c manually on the browser, it loads and shows my login stuff
<flocculant> can't seemingly login to the normal wordpress place
<knome> yeah
<knome> :(
<flocculant> chromium fails too for the normal wp - dns address not found
<knome> by normal you mean the main site? :P
<flocculant> yea
<knome> yep
<knome> sigh
<knome> i don't think it's a browser issue
<flocculant> seems not
<knome> but it's also not completely a ubuntu one issue
<knome> because i've got better luck logging in to pad today
<knome> and logging in to rt.ubuntu.com works with no problems
<knome> same with relogging to launchpad
<flocculant> knome: well getting to main site - fails at login.ubuntu.com
<flocculant> packages.qa.ubuntu.com seems to be down
<knome> yeah, i'm just getting to the "please wait" page, then it waits on login.ubuntu.com/launchpad.net
<knome> eventually i got the "connection reset" eg. too slow to respond message
<flocculant> iso.qa same
<knome> crappety crap
<knome> that's not even wordpress
<flocculant> right
<knome> hmm
<knome> that works for me though
<knome> and now i got to a different place with x.org too
<flocculant> and from trusty vm I am in to the main site
<knome> but still not logging
<knome> huh
<knome> o.o
<knome> so maybe it's some new security stuff in browsers
 * knome installs midori
<flocculant> and to iso.qa
<knome> yep, iso.qa worked for me with ff
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> not installing midori here ... 
<flocculant> Cannot initiate the connection to archive.ubuntu.com:80
<knome> uhh
<knome> so maybe it's a server connectivity problem
<knome> can't login with midori either..
<flocculant> can you apt-get update?
<flocculant> Err:11 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial InRelease
<flocculant>   Temporary failure resolving 'archive.ubuntu.com'
<knome> with fi.archive
<flocculant> right - set to main here 
<knome> and i got a ping reply from archive.
<knome> but since it's pointing to several mirrors...
<knome> no, i'm consistently getting ping replies
<flocculant> UK is failing - but unsurprising - probably in the same room :p
<flocculant> 2,817 B/s to UK ... 
<flocculant> connects fine to some random US server
<knome> maybe you are redirected to different mirrors based on your location
<flocculant> well generally I stick to Main
<knome> yeah but that still isn't just one place
<knome> it's just a frontend to several mirrors
<knome> so it might decide X is better for you
<knome> but that Y is better for me
<knome> and if Y works, i don't get the error
<flocculant> well the UK one should be in the UK - that was dog slow
<knome> otoh, if X doesn't...
<knome> heh
<flocculant> US one works
<flocculant> but
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> that doesn't surely make any difference to me getting x.org login from trusty but not xenial 
<knome> no
<knome> and i'm no wily
<knome> *on
<knome> now the login says "waiting for xubuntu.org..."
 * flocculant checks the wily vm
<flocculant> iso.qa fails in wily lol
<knome> nope..
<knome> :P
<knome> i think what we can figure out here is that it's related to the web services
<knome> not us :P
<flocculant> can get to wp admin on wily :)
 * knome facepalms
<knome> while you are there then
<flocculant> yep pretty confident that's the case 
<knome> do one thing
<knome> go to users and find knome
<knome> click on knome
<flocculant> hang on ... 
<knome> at the bottom of that page, you should have a button that says "log off everywhere"
<flocculant> logged you out 
<knome> ta
 * knome retries
<knome> nope
<knome> now i'm back to the worse situation :D
<knome> not even asked for the login details
<flocculant> oh dear
<knome> now i am
<flocculant> and Sunday and no vanguard ... 
<knome> but still not being able to login..
<knome> indeed
<knome> wait
<knome> i'm in
<knome> what
 * knome blinks
<flocculant> oh meh
<knome> i logged out
<knome> let's see if i can log in 
<knome> :Ã
<knome> nope
<knome> ;)=
<flocculant> so you are unable to login from wily? 
<knome> i did it once
<knome> but i logged out
<knome> i mean - i don't need to change anything now
<flocculant> yup
<knome> i need to be able to log in tomorrow
<knome> so i want it to work
<flocculant> :)
<knome> and ok, i can log in now again
<knome> but not every time i think
<knome> no, now it worked again
<knome> but not now when i restarted ff
<flocculant> I logged out of wily one - logged in, logged out at trusty - can't login
<knome> yep
<knome> this totally sounds/looks like a connectivity issue
<flocculant> yup
<knome> something isn't replying properly
<knome> ok, let's hope we can log in tomorrow :P
<flocculant> and I'm back to being able to apt from Main
<knome> :D
<knome> good
<flocculant> and I logged into wp from xenial in midori
<knome> eh
<flocculant> and I logged into wp from xenial in ff
<knome> i didn't
<flocculant> someone went into the office and fed the hamsters perhaps ... 
<flocculant> log out then login worked
<knome> i just logged in :P
<knome> this is silly
<knome> now that we are in
<knome> are we happy with the mugshot article?
<bluesabre> good morning
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<Unit193> bluesabre: This early on a Sunday? :(
<flocculant> bluesabre: morning :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah :(
<flocculant> knome: should https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubunty-y-marketing really be xubunty ... 
<knome> yy
<knome> :P
<knome> flocculant, what do you mean
<bluesabre> knome: "If you have a webcam connected, you can use it to take a photo of yourself to use." - broken and disabled in xenial
<knome> you obviously mean https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-y-marketing
<knome> flocculant, ;d
<Unit193> bluesabre: If it makes you feel better, I'm awake, not still awake.
<flocculant> knome: that'll make the filters work properly then ;)
<knome> what filters?
<flocculant> thunderbird ones
<knome> aha :D
<flocculant> not Thunderbird 1 
<flocculant> :p
<knome> sure?
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> always preferred Thundebird 4 - much easier to make with lego in the 70's
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> anyway - mugshot article looks ok to me assuming bluesabre is ok with us saying "Normal users can only change their image and some fields."
<knome> it doesn't say that though
<flocculant> because I still haven't checked which fields a normal user 
<knome> :D
<flocculant> knome: I'm looking at the preview, unless you recently changed it 
<knome> relatively
<knome> like, today
<knome> i changed the intro <p>
<knome> now it's long
<knome> it was short before
<flocculant> right - so it STILL says 'some fields' 
<knome> i didn't touch any of the actual article thoug
<knome> indeed
 * knome is the wooden eye today
<flocculant> :p
<flocculant> can't check right now - trusty upgrade in vm half done
<knome> sure
<flocculant> I'll look in a bit and update the post
<knome> sure, thanks
<knome> bluesabre, i guess you would fancy all the contest winners
<flocculant> knome: oh yea you remind me 
<knome> yep, typo fix
<flocculant> have you cropped the ones needing cropping yet? 
<knome> yes
<knome> i've poked bluesabre with them in PM
<flocculant> and have we sorted out the name changes we know about 
<knome> no
<knome> i'm probably just going to disable openid logins on contest. very soon
<knome> and log in there
<knome> with local login, that is
<flocculant> k
<knome> but first, a visit to the gents :P
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> knome: our wiki - forgot my password - it says it's sent a confirmation link - no it hasn't ... 
<knome> flocculant, hah :)
<knome> flocculant, i'll debug that soon
<flocculant> in the meantime set it to something please and I'll change it :)
<knome> flocculant, PM
<knome> flocculant, and see how i made sure you change it :P
<flocculant> lol
<flocculant> and done
<flocculant> asap
<flocculant> :)
<knome> yep
<flocculant> knome: how to add an image to wiki page? don't appear to be able to grab something from local 
<flocculant> nvm - found it by slowly mousing over every word ... 
<knome> flocculant, that's not perfect yet, but yeah...
<flocculant> bizarre 
<flocculant> it failed seemingly
<flocculant> then when I hit done - it had a go and it worked :p
<knome> :D
<flocculant> knome: shall make a start on the iso page now - I assume that qa/foo works for naming new pages
<knome> flocculant, ack, that's the designed naming convention
<knome> they will appear on the order of the pagename (not title) on the sitemap
<knome> and the first ===== Title ===== will be what's visible in the sitemap
<flocculant> knome: ok - thanks :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: just finishing the mugshot post for knome - only fields a normal user cannot change appear to be phone numbers - just want to check that's right before fiddling with the post :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: correct
<flocculant> bluesabre: awesome - thanks, can do that and forget about it :)
<flocculant> assuming I can login still ... 
<flocculant> knome: ok - done mugshot now - details are correct. Whether we actually want to be that specific I don't know - so you can remove things if you wish :)
<bluesabre> knome: is there to be an announcement page for the winners (so I can have a copyright source)
<knome> bluesabre, no
<bluesabre> :'(
<knome> let's see if i can log in and create one
<ochosi> g'day everyone
<knome> hello ochosi 
<ochosi> only around for a few mins now
 * knome starts the clock
<ochosi> but quickly wanted to check in and see how things are going with the walls
<flocculant> knome: the panel layout post might benefit from an image
<flocculant> ochosi: hey there :)
<knome> flocculant, mhm
<ochosi> and whether there are any other open issues
<knome> flocculant, though i can't log in right now, so...
<ochosi> so i can plan some time this week to take care of some
<flocculant> knome: mmm - I am 
<knome> ochosi, yeah, ubuntu one logins suck :P
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> so we need our own single-sign-on? :)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> don't you have an oauth provider for knome.fi? (:
<knome> ochosi, there's the thunar stuff that would benefit from some sort of resolution, whether it was fixing the bugs or downgrading the version in xenial
<ochosi> what thunar stuff?
<knome> the crashes
<ochosi> i saw some bugreports, what's the problem concretely?
<knome> sometimes when you rename a file, thunar crashes
<knome> and sometimes isn't once in a full moon, it's almost daily
<knome> ochosi, and for more things to do, obviously anything from http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/s=todo,inprogress,blocked+sort=assignee+sortdir=asc
<knome> ;)
<knome> ochosi, it's 4 minutes now, isn't that already over "a few"? :P
<ochosi> yeah, we're slowly getting there ;)
<ochosi> right, but what's the culprit for the thunar crashes? is that identified already? (since you suggested downgrading thunar)
<knome> not exactly, but since the previous versions had no crashes...
<knome> ochosi, http://pad.ubuntu.com/thunar-bug
<knome> ochosi, ^ there's something that crashes thunar for me
<ochosi> well could be a problem in gvfs and then affect earlier versions of thunar to
<knome> it's also relatively reliable
<ochosi> o
<knome> maybe
<knome> but the whole situation is crap
<knome> (:
<ochosi> so you've tried downgrading thunar and that helped?
<knome> no
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> so it's just an idea
<knome> i don't know where i picked that information, but somebody said something about 1.6.1
<knome> i've been busy with non-thunar things, you know
<ochosi> that's a fairly old version
<knome> yeah...
<knome> anyway, i was just giving you ideas on what to do since you asked ;)
<ochosi> sure :)
<ochosi> i can try to start by reproducing the bug
<knome> indeed
<knome> though you are running at 11 minutes
<knome> tut tut!
<flocculant> :)
<knome> i'll boot up my xenial vbox too, update and do more tests with  thunar
<Unit193> Oh joy, thunar...
<ochosi> and the wallpaper stuff is going good?
<ochosi> (last question then i'll run)
<knome> slowly but steadily
<ochosi> okeydokey
<ochosi> bbl ;)
<knome> hf
<Nairwolf> hi guys, I wanted to work on translation of lightDM GTK+ Greeter, but what is this package exactly ? 
<knome> the lightdm greeter theme
<knome> you are late for 16.04 though
<Nairwolf> oh, really ? 
<Nairwolf> It will be for next release, so
<knome> indeed, the translation deadline was last thursday
<Nairwolf> ooh...
<Nairwolf> I have light Locker Settings on my xubuntu 14.04, is it the same software ? I don't think so...
<knome> no
<knome> the greeter doesn't appear as a software - it is what is used on the login screen
<Nairwolf> oh, ok. 
<Nairwolf> translations for this package are weird...
<knome> ?
<Nairwolf> for example, look here : https://translations.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/trunk/+pots/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/fr/+translate?start=0&batch=10&show=untranslated&field.alternative_language=&field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&old_show=all
<Nairwolf> the first item is "full" in english, and the context is "option|greeter|xft-hintstyle"
<knome> what's weird in that?
<Nairwolf> but it doesn't really help me. How can I find where this item is used ? 
<Nairwolf> not weird, sorry. 
<knome> in the login screen
<Nairwolf> ok, I will try with a vm. Thansk
<Nairwolf> thanks
<dkessel> knome: can't even access that pad, Launchpad sso takes forever...
<knome> dkessel, egh, i know, i've been rambling about that for two days :(
<knome> dkessel, basically, if you have any comments about spotify/pandora/google play music you want to share...
<knome> dkessel, you can paste your comment on the channel too
<dkessel> Ok not using any of these
<knome> what are you using then?
<Unit193> dkessel: It's a trap!
<dkessel> haha. amazon.
<flocculant> knome: only just saw the mm-other one 
<knome> flocculant, np, it hasn't been in existence for a long time
<knome> well today i'm unable to reproduce the thunar crash bug
<flocculant> I must have scanned the name as mm when I looked this morning
<knome> so maybe the situation isn't as bad as it was
<knome> *as i thought it was
<knome> mole moley
<Unit193> knome: What version?
<knome> Unit193, the one in staging
<Unit193> Wow, that's good: The requested URL /openid/ was not found on this server
<knome> Unit193, indeed, the logins are wonky
<flocculant> knome: so you'd not tested the staging one previously? 
<knome> just go to the real URL again
<knome> flocculant, i had...
<flocculant> oh - ok - just checking :)
<knome> at least i'm pretty sure i had
<knome> things are a bit blurry in my head :D
<knome> for various reasons...
<flocculant> well - here when someone says thunar it immediately gets blurry :p
<knome> maybe
<knome> linking bug 1512120 to the bugs blueprint
<ubottu> bug 1512120 in thunar (Ubuntu) "thunar crashes on file renaming" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512120
<knome> i also commented on the bug, asking for tests with the staging PPA
<bluesabre> xubuntu-community-artwork package *slowly* uploading to -staging ppa
<knome> bug 1311926
<ubottu> bug 1311926 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Renaming Bug in Thunar " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1311926
<knome> that's for the other issue in the pad
<knome> well not exactly, but one of the symptoms related to that behavior
<knome> bbl
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> I need to move the meeting back... have to drop my wife off for her chicago trip in the middle of the meeting time
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll be about whenever
<Unit193> bluesabre: Make it a short one. ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> we like to rattle on sometimes, not so easy
<flocculant> not of late ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Tip, /mode +m
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> maybe... 17:30 UTC?
<Unit193> bluesabre: But yeah, that's fine as far as I'm concerned too.  I'll check backlog.
<flocculant> bluesabre: that's forward :p
<bluesabre> back/forward, all tricky when applied to time
<flocculant> yep for sure :)
<bluesabre> changed in all the relevant places
<bluesabre> bbl
<knome> bluesabre, move the meeting to your back!
 * knome reserves the soft seat
 * flocculant won't comment
<flocculant> on that
<flocculant> knome: added tomahawk to mm-other
<knome> ack
<knome> btw, if you want and know the dev communities, feel free to ask for short passages for the article
<knome> (a la amarok)
<flocculant> I don't 
<knome> or if you are feeling adventurous
<knome> :P
<knome> the tomahawk irc channel might even be active
<flocculant> I added some to the amarok note too btw
<knome> noticed
<knome> i'm disconnected...
<flocculant> :)
<knome> (surprise)
<knome> let's see if i can log back in
<knome> noep
<knome> sigh
<knome> :)
<knome> now i am
<flocculant> you could try the wiki - but you'd not know if it was *this* making it slow to login :p
<knome> :P
<knome> i prefer pad when collaborating
<knome> we could use any other pad though
<flocculant> yea
<knome> but since this is already here..
<flocculant> :)
<knome> the no space between website and parenthesis is intentional btw
<flocculant> ok
<knome> that reminds me i should make those urls links with the website text
<flocculant> knome: I would say do you want this put on x.org - but then you'd not be able to edit :D
<knome> yep...
<knome> and i do want to, at some point
<knome> but not yet, because it's still in flux
<flocculant> yup
<knome> so i added a list of the irc channels on the pad if somebody wishes to go poking
<knome> on and off from kb again
<bluesabre> flocculant: xubuntu-community-artwork is in -staging now, if you want to take a peek
<flocculant> bluesabre: \o/
<flocculant> 20MB - not too bad then - much smaller than a font package ... 
<flocculant> really should clean up the wallpaper folder here - not really a need for 293 images ... 
<flocculant> bluesabre: if you by chance do anything with release note between now and release - please do that at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/FinalRelease/Xubuntu 
<flocculant> the one I use to base them off is now cleared
<flocculant> wandering off now
<bluesabre> !team | meeting in 4 minutes :)
<ubottu> meeting in 4 minutes :): bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> bluesabre: going to be in and out a bit 
<bluesabre> flocculant: np
<bluesabre> flocculant: your name isn't until the end anyway
<flocculant> would be easier if it was at the beginning :p
<bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Apr 10 17:30:21 2016 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bluesabre> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<bluesabre> Hey everyone! Who's here for the meeting?
<flocculant> o/
<bluesabre> I'll give folks a few minutes to roll in
<pleia2> o/
<flocculant> bluesabre: just while we're doing that - the wallpaper package seems to want to be autoremoved
<bluesabre> hey pleia2
<bluesabre> flocculant: hm?
<bluesabre> flocculant: there might be some tweaks I need to do to the package, I'll check it out after the meeting
<flocculant> okey doke
<bluesabre> looks like this could be a short meeting
<slickymaster> o/
<slickymaster> made it
<bluesabre> yesss
<bluesabre> hi slickymaster
<slickymaster> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> now we probably have enough to have a discussion
<slickymaster> hi flocculant and pleia2
<bluesabre> #topic Open Action Items
<bluesabre> Pretty sure there are none...
<slickymaster> nothing in the agenda anyway
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> next up
<bluesabre> #topic Updates and Announcements
<pleia2> the article series' seem to be getting a lot of views on social media, good feedback here and there
<pleia2> not overwhelmingly so, but for short articles I think it's gone well
<flocculant> at least 1 I read was of the 'these are useful' type :)
<flocculant> afaik not many left to go
<bluesabre> #info The non-language pack translation deadline was Thursday April 8, so no more translations for our apps
<Nairwolf> hi, I'm here ;)
<bluesabre> pleia2: that's good to hear :)
<bluesabre> hi Nairwolf
<pleia2> #info "The small details" and "My media manager" article series' are doing well
<Nairwolf> pleia2: I've contacted the french team of xubuntu.fr, and I will translate these articles for french community. 
<bluesabre> #info the wallpaper contest has concluded and the winners have been chosen. A new xubuntu-community-artwork package will be uploaded today with the new wallpapers
<Nairwolf> oh, great ! 
<slickymaster> #info Final Freeze and RC are just 4 days away
<flocculant> #undo
<flocculant> RC might be :p
<flocculant> oh sorry - not reading properly
<pleia2> Nairwolf: did we agree to do that? I thought the articles were not part of our translation plan
<bluesabre> flocculant: #redo? :D
<pleia2> we wanted to focus on a set of to-be-determined core content from the website first
<flocculant> #info Final Freeze and RC are just 4 days away
<Nairwolf> pleia2: that was a personal initiative. Do you think it's a bad idea ? 
<pleia2> Nairwolf: well, knome and I had already been talking about website translations, and since he's the website lead I would have checked with him before going out on your own
<pleia2> Nairwolf: websites are an important part of our branding, and we need to be in agreement about these things
<pleia2> so looping me in as marking lead would have been good too
<pleia2> we're also working with the owner of xubuntu.se to do similar
<pleia2> it's concerning to see a proliferation of other language sites that we have no influence over
<Nairwolf> ok, I've just sending a mail this morning. Don't worry. I will send a mail to you and to knome, in order to talk you about that. 
<pleia2> thanks
<bluesabre> Might be something worthwhile to include on the contributor docs going forward
<pleia2> bluesabre: ++
<flocculant> yep
<slickymaster> yes
 * flocculant looks forward to when contr docs are more than a few little bits and loads of qa :p
<bluesabre> Any other updates and/or announcements?
<flocculant> not that I'm aware of
<bluesabre> probably safe to move on then
<bluesabre> #topic Discussion
<bluesabre> #subtopic PDF in docs
<bluesabre> ^ knome, slickymaster, krytarik?
<slickymaster> well, knome and krytarik are/were workinh on that
<slickymaster> but as far as I know it's not solved yet
<bluesabre> seems like a difficult task to fully resolve
<pleia2> fwiw, people I am in contact with on social media continue to like the idea of having them
<flocculant> thought it was 
<pleia2> so it's valuable to get solved
<slickymaster> yes
<flocculant> pdf's build locally here
<bluesabre> aha
<bluesabre> I think it is resolved
<flocculant> I thought it was
<slickymaster> they don't in my xenial VM box
<bluesabre> xubuntu-docs (16.04.3) xenial; urgency=medium
<bluesabre>   * Create temporary symlinks while creating PDFs (fixes FTBFS, thanks Krytarik)
<bluesabre>   * Drop contributor documentation from the default build
<slickymaster> missed that one[5~
<slickymaster> thanks bluesabre 
<bluesabre> something might have broken since then, so don't take my word for it :D
<bluesabre> that wraps up that topic then
<bluesabre> #subtopic core situation
<slickymaster> yeaps
<bluesabre> ^ Unit193
<bluesabre> Pretty sure we're stuck in the same place on this one... we can't quite get our patches merged to enable this
<flocculant> yea - afaik no movement - there was discussion amongst us to target .1 
<bluesabre> and if anything, we're not looking to include this in 16.04.0 since its so late already
<bluesabre> yup
<flocculant> and Unit193's community build is failing to install afaik
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> that's disappointing
<flocculant> and even if they came through tomorrow with core - you'd get a massive -1 from me now
<flocculant> much much too late ;)
<bluesabre> yup, same here
<bluesabre> so core is on hold for now
<bluesabre> #subtopic Seeding Snappy
<bluesabre> ^ (that's me and Unit193)
<flocculant> Unit193> [05:11:19] flocculant: So yes, failing still/now.  Setting up locales again.
<flocculant> bluesabre: that's Unit193's build ^^
<bluesabre> flocculant: aha, thanks for that
<bluesabre> Regarding Snappy, we had a (very) early meeting with Snappy folks a few days ago
<flocculant> brb
<bluesabre> They're looking to include support for it in 16.04
<bluesabre> Snappy coexists alongside the debian packaging system, so this should in no way interfere with our current workflow
<bluesabre> The consideration here is to include the snappy launcher in every flavor, or possibly let the flavors decide on their own
<bluesabre> It looks like it would add ~26mb to the installation, though I suggested adding support in Gnome Software to just install the launcher when a snappy app is installed
<bluesabre> and that's roughly all I have for that
<bluesabre> (just letting everybody in to the loop there)
<bluesabre> and with no decision on that in my head, next up
<bluesabre> #subtopic Release Candidate
<bluesabre> ^ flocculant
<flocculant> back just
<flocculant> so RC next week sometime
<flocculant> please try and get some testing of iso's done
<flocculant> pleia2: I'll make sure to mail LP testers about that too
<flocculant> pretty much nothing going on with the installer *we* can deal with 
<bluesabre> flocculant: is the installer haven't issues again?
<flocculant> upgrades seem to be ok now too - not that we'll be necessarily testing them
<flocculant> bluesabre: not that I know of
<pleia2> flocculant: great
<pleia2> I'll make sure it's shared
<bluesabre> cool
<flocculant> bluesabre: well things like vm's never changes - and some of the odd crypt install/oem install things have bugs
<pleia2> flocculant: why re: not testing them?
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks :)
<Nairwolf> flocculant: I'm not sure to understand. Is it ok with upgrades ? 
<flocculant> pleia2: upgrades? 
<Nairwolf> upgrading from 14.04 to 16.04 works ? 
<pleia2> flocculant: yeah
<flocculant> because it's switched on for .1 usually
<bluesabre> flocculant: I'm guessing we'll be sending a link to the in-progress release notes in the ML once the RC images are available so folks know what to look for?
<flocculant> so people *might* but they'll not be *prompted* by updates
<pleia2> flocculant: oh right, gotchat :)
<pleia2> -t
<bluesabre> gochat?
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: yup that's the plan
<slickymaster> :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: good deal :)
<flocculant> talking of which I'll just quickly mention wiki release note
<flocculant> next cycle - I'll be gettting that together at cycle start and using just the one for the whole cycle
<Nairwolf> from the releaseCandidate to the final Release, the iso can still evolve ? 
<flocculant> it'll get updated throughout
<bluesabre> Nairwolf: yes, there may still be bugs fixed in that time, and hopefully not too many other updates beside that
<flocculant> Nairwolf: for sure - if canonical and us fix things - it'll get respun
<bluesabre> anything else in regards to the RC?
<Nairwolf> ok, so the finalFreeze isn't a real 'freeze', right ?
<flocculant> bluesabre: nope - all done :)
<Nairwolf> it's just fixing bugs, right ? 
<bluesabre> Nairwolf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks
<bluesabre> #topic Any other business
<Nairwolf> bluesabre: Thanks ! 
<bluesabre> Anybody got anything else to add for the meeting?
<flocculant> not me
<slickymaster> nothing heer
<slickymaster> * here
<bluesabre> pleia2: anything from you? (make it something awesome)
<pleia2> I love you all
<pleia2> that's it
<bluesabre> well done
<flocculant> \o/
<slickymaster> \o/
<bluesabre> #topic Schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> knome to schedule next meeting
<ochosi> meh
<bluesabre> And we're out
<ochosi> too latae
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC
<ochosi> sry, had to get the little one to bed
<bluesabre> hi ochosi
<ochosi> let me see how quickly i can skim through the backlog
<bluesabre> anything to add to the end of the meeting?
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> or are there any concrete questions for me?
<bluesabre> I don't know enough about concrete to make a good pun here
<bluesabre> :(
<flocculant> hah
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> alrighty, caught up
 * bluesabre hands the mic to ochosi
<ochosi> not much from my side, i'm a bit unsure about where snappy will take us and whether the snappy launcher can't be a depend of all snappy packages (which begs the question why we need it by default)
<ochosi> but since this seems to be only the initial stage i guess we might have to wait a bit longer to see about that
<bluesabre> ochosi: partially because snappy packages are not deb packages, so they can't auto-pull deb requirements (is my guess)
<bluesabre> but yeah, kind of a wait and see game currently
<ochosi> i thought they shouldn't? (at least that's what i understood there)
<ochosi> thought they should be little independent thingies that have everything they need inside
<bluesabre> except they need a launcher/runtime
<bluesabre> but at the same time, I haven't played with it myself yet, so I can't say for sure
<bluesabre> I'll see if I can get the next meeting at a time that you can also join in
<bluesabre> ochosi: anything else for the meeting?
<ochosi> ok sure
<ochosi> no, nothing else
<bluesabre> alrighty then
<bluesabre> anybody else?
 * bluesabre likes to stall
<flocculant> ummm
<flocculant> nope :p
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> Let's wrap it up then
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> #topic Schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> #info knome to schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Apr 10 18:20:16 2016 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-04-10-17.30.moin.txt
<flocculant> thanks bluesabre :)
<slickymaster> thanks bluesabre 
<bluesabre> thanks everybody, good meeting!
<pleia2> thanks for chairing
 * slickymaster wonders off to the kitchen to prepare some sort of a dinner
<flocculant> I'd wander personally - but no idea what your house is like :p
<bluesabre> makes you wonder, doesn't it
<flocculant> yea it does 
<flocculant> this bug blueprint tracking is a pita, things on there sort of fixed - stay there :p
<flocculant> until I get around to the y blueprint and I'll move them ... 
<flocculant> bluesabre: is bug 1402036 fixed? invalid or something 
<ubottu> bug 1402036 in Mugshot "Mugshot authentication failed" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1402036
<flocculant> biab 
<bluesabre> wiki updated
<bluesabre> flocculant: bug 1402036 ?
<ubottu> bug 1402036 in Mugshot "Mugshot authentication failed" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1402036
<bluesabre> looks fixed to me
<bluesabre> >.>
<ochosi> bluesabre: i read that there are issues with light-locker-settings not starting up
<ochosi> not sure we're still maintaining that one
<ochosi> could be a trivial fix
<ochosi> or should we mark it dead somewhere somehow?
<flocculant> bluesabre: :p
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'm going to try to get it working again today
<bluesabre> but yes, should be trivial
<flocculant> must say it's nice to have people not in -team actually speaking up during meetings about things :)
<bluesabre> yes, definitely
<bluesabre> "community meeting"
<ochosi> bluesabre: nice :)
<pavlushka> date&time is showing UTC+0 though UTC+6 is selected, syncing with ntp I guess, where's the problem?
<pavlushka> internet sync selected, I am up but it is showing UTC+0 time for more than 6 hours now.
<flocculant> what? 
<flocculant> quite honestly given all the issues you appear to get - I would clean install
<pavlushka> the upgrades are not enough?
<flocculant> pavlushka: well you appear to have nothing but trouble - even ignoring the trying to get suspend working on the broken laptop 
<flocculant> there often comes a time when it's just better to re-install - you are after all using an un-released version of xubuntu
<pavlushka> ok, I am considering your suggestion,:p , actually its a :p to me.
<pavlushka> Good night flocculant !
<pleia2> knome: oh, I should chime in on this cloud player article, editing etherpad assuming it's not too late ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: got a good version of the package now that doesn't want to remove itself
<bluesabre> I'll go ahead and upload this
 * bluesabre really likes the community wallpapers this time around
<pleia2> I like ours more than the default Ubuntu ones (and I voted on those too)
<knome> pleia2, not too late
<pleia2> knome: ok, done :)
<knome> pleia2, Nairwolf: on translating articles to other language, i'm fine with that
<knome> but it will have to be hosted somewhere else than x.org
<knome> but since Nairwolf mentioned xubuntu.fr...
<flocculant> bluesabre: cheers :)
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-artwork had 16 updates, showing the latest 3
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-03
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-sensors-plugin 1.2.98 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-sensors-plugin-1-2-98-released-tp49065.html (by Fabian Nowak)
<ochosi> flocculant, bluesabre: pushed the fix for notifyd's progressbars to greybird master, can do a micro-release if needed for zesty: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/commit/8c9ea7b1788899e69082821cd4aea4d8be7a9a73
<ochosi> sorry for the oversight
<ochosi> should've noticed and fixed that before
<knome> yes you lazy one
<knome> :P
<knome> (just kidding)
<knome> what's up? :)
<ochosi> knome: quite a bit of RL work latel
<ochosi> y
<ochosi> and i think i caught a cold :'(
<ochosi> other than that mostly working on the panel port and automated testing
<ochosi> and fixing small issues like the one i just mentioned
<knome> awwh
<knome> get well soon
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> time to get some rest now
<ochosi> nighty!
<knome> nighty!
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-04
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r500 Fix xfce4-notifyd progressbars... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r501 README: updated copyrights (by m4sk1n)
<flocculant> ochosi: got an update from shimmer ppa this morning - is that supposed to fix the volume notification issue?
<flocculant> looking at the git link above and the lp changes - I guess so - but it doesn't look any different locally
<ochosi> flocculant: i only fixed it for having notifyd set to "default", not to Greybird probably
<ochosi> i will have to fix the latter as well i guess
<ochosi> if you use greybird you can use "default" which uses the builtin theming for notifications by greybird
<ochosi> if you use a different theme (e.g. adwaita) but still want the greybird notifications theme, you can set it to "greybird" and then it uses slightly different css which i also have to fix
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool, once you have those, I can get them uploaded :)
<ochosi> even now we should be able to test
<ochosi> and it may be more consistent to have our default setting going to "default" instead of "Greybird" in notifyd
<bluesabre> Yes, that's sensible to me
<knome> bluesabre, would you like to put some time to the side to reply to alexandra from hostingadvice for an article?
<flocculant> ochosi: mmm - well I still see volume thing with cutoff corners and some blue regardless of whether it's set to default or greybird
<ochosi> bluesabre, flocculant: ok, fixed the notifyd themes as well now
<ochosi> flocculant: that's odd, it works fine for me here
<flocculant> ochosi: mmm - not sure then - logged out and in to double check 
<flocculant> I do assume we're talking about the same things here :)
<ochosi> yeah, i saw your screenshot and could reproduce
<ochosi> and then fixed it now cannot anymore
<ochosi> :>
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> let me double check on iso grabbing ppa then :)
<flocculant> ochosi: looks ok on the vm at least 
<flocculant> by ok I mean it looks like it should :)
<flocculant> in other news - seeing random hangs in thunar 
<ochosi> flocculant: ok, good for notifyd
<ochosi> and meh for thunar
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> any chance to run it through gdb to get a backtrace?
<ali1234> is it hanging because of apport or is it really hanging?
<flocculant> ali1234: nothing in /var/crash so assumingly not
<flocculant> ochosi: I'd have to run it through gdb for days till it did the thing - it might not be random exactly - but it's not frequent enough for me to have an idea of the things happening at the time it does it
<flocculant> ochosi: sussed the theme issue out - had a greybird in .local from a while back - fixed now it's using the real greybird
<flocculant> sorry for the confusion
<knome> not sure if you can be excused...
<knome> ;P
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> flocculant: ok perfect. good to know it's fixed for you too
<flocculant> me too - hate when it's not the same here as on vm :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r502 Fix dedicated xfce4-notifyd themes... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-05
<ali1234> flocculant: if it is really hanging, then you can attach gdb to it after it hangs
<ali1234> or strace
<ali1234> and then you can see where it happened
<ali1234> -p <pid of hung process>
<knome> pleia2, we have a mail we need to reply to in the -contacts mod queue
<knome> pleia2, re: hardware endorsement
<flocculant> ali1234: k
<flocculant> anyone with a zesty install - can you check suspend and lock please
<flocculant> I'm seeing suspend come out of lock and then lock again - eg needs 2 password inputs 
<flocculant> lock appears to not do that here
<genii> In case someone didn't see this already. https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
<ochosi> holy crap, srsly no more unity8?
<knome> :)
<knome> not even april fools day
<ochosi> yeah, i know
<knome> so re: lightdm (and why not something else), maybe it's time to start looking for some friends outside ubuntu
<knome> what i mean by this that we could cooperate and focus efforts on getting $x working with xfce on all operating systems
<knome> instead of trying to fix everything in an isolated environment
<ochosi> getting $x?
<knome> $x being lightdm, light-locker, ...
<Unit193> Well, we don't know what's all going out the door yet either.
<knome> nope
<knome> but there are likely other operating systems using thunar as well
<knome> they don't seem to be too active with the development, but maybe we could try contacting them
<Unit193> Manjaro Xfce looks to be using LXDM.
<knome> is that going to be a nogo too if/when lxde becomes lxqt?
<knome> or is that project discarded?
<Unit193> https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Install_Display_Managers see also.
<knome> (lxqt)
<Unit193> lxqt is alive and "well"
<ochosi> haven't heard any lxqt news in a while
<knome> me neither
<knome> that's why i asked...
<ochosi> anyhow, no reason to freak out just yet
<knome> not at all
<knome> my suggestion wasn't a freak out reaction
<ochosi> i wonder what the ubuntu gnome guys are thinking right now...
<knome> heh.
<knome> maybe they are freaking out... :P
<ali1234> the biggest problem for xubuntu will be indicators
<ochosi> not just xubuntu, but yeah, us too
<ochosi> we probably should fork them
<Unit193> Can't honestly maintain them though.  Might be easier just to find out from someone what all Canonical is dropping.
<ali1234> would probably be easier to port the indicators over to be panel applets
<ali1234> rather than maintain the full indicator stack, which consists of lots of stuff that nobody outside of canonical seems to understand
<ali1234> would save all that trouble with upstart events to get the all running
<ochosi> i think elementary also relies on them heavily
<ali1234> mmm yes, that certainly was true a few years ago
<ali1234> not sure where they are now though
<ali1234> i seem to recall they were going to drop them, or rewrite them as native plugins for their desktop, or something
<ali1234> http://elementaryos.stackexchange.com/questions/755/how-can-i-test-the-new-indicators
<ali1234> looks like they forked them
<Unit193> So, indicator-{application,sound}, but what about the base libraries?
<ali1234> looks like they still use ayatana
<bluesabre> Evening all
<knome> time for a polo raffle.
<knome> ubottu, random dave david unit
<ubottu> david
<ubottu> knome: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<knome> ubottu, random dave david unit
<ubottu> david
<knome> someone else plz
<knome> ubottu, random dave david unit
<ubottu> dave
<knome> there we go
<knome> akxwi-dave, slickymaster: you're the new happy owners of xubuntu polo shirts
<knome> Unit193, and i guess you kind of got what you wanted as well... so congrats? (and sorry for the bad luck)
<Unit193> :(
<Unit193> I knew it didn't like me.
<knome> maybe we'll contact the other vendor and ask for some t-shirts later :P
<Unit193> Congrats, akxwi-dave, slickymaster.
<knome> pleia2, i'll check if there's any difference in shipping costs to uk/portugal (i'm guessing it's all the same for you) and confirm once i'm done. ok? :)
<pleia2> knome: sure
<knome> great!
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-06
<flocculant> bluesabre: will the iso see the progress bar fix before next Thursday?
<akxwi-dave> wooohoooo  thanks  :-)
<bluesabre> flocculant: I'll try to get that uploaded dshortly
<bluesabre> always feel so awkward doing git snapshots
<Unit193> That's because they're awkward, bud.
<bluesabre> Perhaps ochosi could make a new release today...
<Unit193>  April 6th
<Unit193> 	
<Unit193> Warning /!\ FinalFreeze, Warning /!\ ReleaseCandidate, Warning /!\ LanguagePackTranslationDeadline 
<bluesabre> :(
<bluesabre> And all those usually hit before I get home
<Unit193> Putty!
<Unit193> (I have neeeever done an upload from work, nooo. >_>)
<bluesabre> xubuntu-docs (16.10)
<Unit193> bluesabre: They also don't believe in updating d/changelog, here's one constructed from git: http://paste.openstack.org/show/DZr1rTntMXWvSailkCFI
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> knome: would you consider the docs ready to upload? (It's now or z+1)
<Unit193> (Full file: http://paste.openstack.org/show/cx51mR1Kjcb6O3mgTmJR)
<bluesabre> (good to fix before)
<bluesabre> startpage/index.html:21:		<h1>Welcome to Xubuntu 16.10 Documentation!</h1>
<bluesabre> But it does build... so if any docs folks want to update that string and approve... :)
<bluesabre> Going to get some breakfast, back in a bit
<Unit193> And approve the changelog.
<knome> bluesabre, i'll update that now
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> knome: Pushing changelog too or not?
<knome> am
<knome> and pushed
<Unit193> (Just needed to know as bzr doesn't handle conflicts well at all.)
<Unit193> Erm, alright...
<knome> wut?
<Unit193> Minimal changelog.
<knome> should it be not?
<knome> :)
<knome> i mean, were there pending stuff?
<Unit193> Well, just updated with what the docs team did, constructed from git: http://paste.openstack.org/show/cx51mR1Kjcb6O3mgTmJR
<knome> haha.
<ochosi> knome: no women's shirt news from my side
<ochosi> bluesabre: i could make a release tonight, isn't that too late though?
<knome> ochosi, mhm
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [zesty] r633 Update the startpage to be release-agnostic so we don't need... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<flocculant> lol
<flocculant> alternatively docs could write a process doc so they don't forget :p
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: talking of which - you got any time to look at release note?
<bluesabre> flocculant: where's the release note?
<bluesabre> knome: so, is that the changelog we're going with?
<flocculant> bluesabre: http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.04/release-notes
<bluesabre> Unit193 will probably need to push the upload
<bluesabre> flocculant: sgt-launcher/sgt-puzzles
<knome> Unit193 should poke eeet
<knome> :P
<flocculant> bluesabre: yup
<flocculant> knome: this time next week would be a good time for the website announcement to have been done :)
 * flocculant wanders off a few hours again
<knome> ack
<knome> bbl as well
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  will do..
<krytarik> If we are to add to the docs d/changelog based on the commit log, we should merge at least..
<krytarik> [ flocculant ]
<krytarik> * Changes to contributor docs
<krytarik> Erm, we might pull any translations since the last release too then..
<flocculant> afternoon
<krytarik> Hi flocculant.
<flocculant> hi krytarik 
<akxwi-dave> evening..  flocculant the release notes are looking good
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: sorry - I totally presented the wrong end of that stick to you :p
<flocculant> I meant will you have time to do anything with the release note to get it up to date before next week :)
<akxwi-dave> lol...  no worries  thats what i thought you meant..  thought I'd have a little laugh..
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> ali1234 ochosi - does this make sense re thunar hang and gdb - http://paste.ubuntu.com/24329908/
<ali1234> can you try to strace it?
<ali1234> it might be more revealing
<flocculant> ali1234: if you help :)
<ali1234> "strace -p <pid>"
<flocculant> it's still there - just in case someone pitched up :)
<ali1234> it will most likely spam only one thing over and over
<ali1234> btw someone reported this bug on lp
<flocculant> had to sudo it
<flocculant> same as gdb
<ali1234> said it was something to do with qt creator making autosave files in a folder that is open in thunar
<flocculant> but - all it's done is echoed this and stopped > futex(0x562c4f5889e8, FUTEX_WAIT_PRIVATE, 2, NULL
<flocculant> yea - I think I remember seeing that 
<ali1234> okay thats helpful
<flocculant> k - cool
<flocculant> anything else? if not I'll kill it now
<ali1234> do you have thunar-media-tags-plugin?
<flocculant> yep
<ali1234> https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/16977
<ali1234> hang on let me look at that backtrace again... hmm
<ali1234> what was that patch recently that added a mutex?
<flocculant> not a clue tbh
<ali1234> https://github.com/xfce-mirror/thunar/commit/b838a4d250e3283590cabac2ee5947cdf91c8864
<ali1234> this one
<ali1234> its probably related to that
<ali1234> g_cond_wait is waiting on a mutex
<ali1234> the other thread is on G_FILE_MONITOR_EVENT_MOVED
<ali1234> so yeah
<ali1234> this patch fixes the crash, now it deadlocks instead :(
<ali1234> thunar......
<flocculant> ;)
<ali1234> so basically
<ali1234> there's two places where the mutex gets locked
<ali1234> one of them must be calling the other from inside the mutex
<ali1234> sorry, there's three places
<flocculant> is it worth me removing that plugin and seeing if it occurs again? 
<flocculant> though it might be a while till it does 
<ali1234> nah
<ali1234> that bug is ancient
<ali1234> this is 100% caused by the recent patch
<flocculant> okey doke
<ali1234> 0x0000562c4f308246 in thunar_file_monitor (monitor=<optimised out>, event_path=0x562c507922a0, other_path=0x562c50b92fa0, event_type=G_FILE_MONITOR_EVENT_MOVED, user_data=<optimised out>) at thunar-file.c:822
<flocculant> nothing more to be found from the hung thunar ?
<ali1234> can you "apt-get source thunar" and tell me what is line 822?
<ali1234> for me it is a blank line
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> ali1234: well - in what file do you want me to look? 
<ali1234> thunar-file.c
<flocculant> try and remember this is mostly voodoo to me :)
<flocculant> G_LOCK (file_rename_mutex);
<ali1234> huh, really?
<flocculant> yup
<ali1234> in which function?
<ali1234> its here, right: https://github.com/xfce-mirror/thunar/blob/b838a4d250e3283590cabac2ee5947cdf91c8864/thunar/thunar-file.c#L804
<flocculant> yea
<ali1234> wait a minute
<ali1234> that calls thunar_file_move_thumbnail_cache_file (event_path, other_path);
<ali1234> so it moves a file from within the mutex that detects moved files
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> i need to get the right source code version
<ali1234> okay this matches up: https://github.com/xfce-mirror/thunar/blob/35e65ab0ed5675b2dc7b4224b0ad152df3c3e9b0/thunar/thunar-file.c
<ali1234> what directory was shown in thunar when it froze?
<ali1234> was it your homedir?
<ali1234> and do you have "show hidden files"?
<flocculant> home/wolf/Desktop/Git/mpd/
<flocculant> and yes - have show hidden
<ali1234> that is a git checkout of mpd source code?
<flocculant> yea
<ali1234> hmm, that blows that theory
<flocculant> and I know exactly what I was doing just prior to thunar hanging - failing to build mpd in a terminal opened from the right click menu in thunar
<flocculant> just in case that helps :)
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> that means that a lot of file monitor events were coming in
<ali1234> so check this: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=800723;msg=91
<ubottu> Debian bug 800723 in thunar "intermittent segfault on file drag and drop" [Important,Fixed]
<ali1234> this is the old bug that used to crash
<ali1234> "thunar_file_move_thumbnail_cache_file" makes an appearence
<flocculant> actually thinking about it - last time it hung - it would likely to have been a fair few monitor events going on
<ali1234> i think that function triggers a monitor event
<ali1234> so previously the two events would stomp on each other and cause a segfault
<ali1234> the mutex stops that but causes a deadlock
<flocculant> ali1234: ok - what if I turn of thumbnails - and watch for a few days? 
<ali1234> i'm not really sure how thumbnails work
<ali1234> do they get saved into the filesystem?
<flocculant> I think so
<ali1234> i mean they do
<ali1234> but i thought they got saved in like ~/.thumbnails
<ali1234> which would not cause any monitor events in some other totally different directory
<flocculant> well .cache/thumbnails
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> did you have other windows open?
<ali1234> or maybe thunar monitors that directory constantly
<flocculant> ali1234: 2 tabs in 1 thunar
<Unit193> knome: Poke.
<ali1234> i think this is definitely the cause
<flocculant> thumbnails?
<flocculant> if so - I can turn that off and watch what goes on over the next dayish
<ali1234> oh i get it
<ali1234> say you are looking at a directory with a jpeg in it
<ali1234> something outside thunar renames the jpeg
<ali1234> then thunar has to also rename the thumbnail in ~/.cache to match
<ali1234> this triggers a file rename event
<ali1234> the event runs into the mutex of the previous event
<ali1234> then it deadlocks
<flocculant> so running with that off will help prove something?
<ali1234> maybe yes
<ali1234> definitely worth a try
<flocculant> ok - I can comment on that bug too 
<ali1234> ochosi: do you know the xfce bug number for the patch that is https://github.com/xfce-mirror/thunar/commit/b838a4d250e3283590cabac2ee5947cdf91c8864
<ali1234> its not 12260 :)
<flocculant> 12264 I think
<ali1234> 12264 yes
<flocculant> well show thumbnail is now off here
<flocculant> seems like I can replicate this issue at will then ... 
<flocculant> just did exactly the same thing - failed to build mpd and it has hung
<ali1234> show thumbnail might not make any difference if it is still updating them, and it probably is
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> well I'll have a go tomorrow morning - as it is - time for me to skedaddle
<flocculant> night all
<bluesabre> Evening all
<ali1234> okay i commented on the bug
<ali1234> not sure what else to do
<ali1234> flocculant: can you attach that backtrace from ubuntu pastebin onto the xfce bug please?
<bluesabre> Final Freeze is now in effect, but let's get xubuntu-docs uploaded anyway... are we waiting on any other changes?
<bluesabre> knome, slickymaster, krytarik, Unit193 ^
<bluesabre> Will also try to settle the 32bit parole issues in the next few days
<knome> no other changes for docs for me
<knome> though we could pull the translations or so
<knome> i just hit my forehead on a closet door
<knome> (ow)
<bluesabre> :(
<bluesabre> knome: if you think we should, we can, else I can just move it along
<knome> i mean it doesn't hurt us anyway
<bluesabre> Feel free to pull them in :)
<knome> i'll do that a bit later
<knome> food time
<bluesabre> k
<knome> or you can do it if you are impatient ;)
<bluesabre> nah
<bluesabre> I'm the upload guy today
<knome> hihi
<Unit193> \o/
 * bluesabre begins dinner prep
<knome> hmh, bzr diff doesn't say anything
<bluesabre> after merging?
<bluesabre> or
<knome> after explicitly telling to get translations
<knome> so either i'm missing something or...
 * bluesabre nudges Unit193, knower of things
<Unit193> What'd you run?
<krytarik> knome: You'd have to initiate an export from LP Rosetta to the branch first.
<knome> krytarik, i just turned the exports on
<krytarik> So it'll be done sometime in the morning UTC, as usual.
<knome> now the question is... can i run it manually once?
<knome> egh.
<krytarik> Doesn't seem so, had a look myself a bit ago.
<knome> i literally just did it
<knome> let's see if i can download the .po files from launchpad
<krytarik> I mean manual export.
<knome> and push to the branch manually
<knome> yeah
<knome> ok, i requsted an export
 * knome goes turn auto export off
<krytarik> Yeah.
<knome> and get some more food
<knome> ughhh
<knome> and pushing
<krytarik> How about my suggestion to merge flocculant's two log entries..?
<knome> what log entries?
<krytarik> Commit log, and subsequently d/changelog.
<Unit193> 'Update the startpage to be release-agnostic' can go under your 'general', but that's nitpicking. :P
<knome> krytarik, didn't i push that? :P
<knome> Unit193, yeah, not going to fix it any more :P
<Unit193> :)
<knome> anything else you're going to make me do?
<krytarik> knome: I mean the way I put it here earlier today, rather than having two entries for the same thing, plus a reference to a review.
<Unit193> knome: Headstand.
<knome> Unit193, i feel like i'm doing that already
<knome> the closet door was open 90degrees and i bumped to it with quite some power
<Unit193> Twack!
<knome> yep.
<knome> and "oouwwww" silently
<knome> as one can't wake up the sleeping baby
<knome> (or wife)
<Unit193> First will cry, second will kill.
<knome> hah.
<genii> Killer babies!
 * genii ducks
<knome> make up your mind
<knome> are they killer babies or ducks?
<Unit193> Killer baby ducks?
<genii> Heh
<Unit193> Sooo, is there an upload?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [zesty] r634 Synchronize translations from Launchpad... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<knome> time to go to bed. nighty!
<krytarik> Night, knome.
<Unit193> bluesabre: We uploadin'?
<bluesabre> yay
<krytarik> Yay or yea? :P
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-07
<bluesabre> Now that's a changelog
<bluesabre> Running a test build, then uploading
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/D2mqTtz5B50O5dt9IxN3
<Unit193> Oh, so you're doing it. Backing off.
<bluesabre> Unit193: go for it
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Your diff is more work than I was going to do
 * bluesabre hopes Unit193 backs back onto doing the upload
<Unit193> Yeah, just about to push.
<Unit193> Since I don't have push rights: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs/pkging-updates/+merge/322175
<bluesabre> Since I apparently do: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc/xubuntu-docs/zesty/revision/635
<Unit193> Oh poop, I forgot to tag.
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc/+members
<bluesabre> Tempted to just add you :D
<krytarik> Yes!
<bluesabre> Added
<bluesabre> Since you're so handy with fixing the issues that arise
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [pkging-updates] r635 Update packaging and changelog. (by Unit 193)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [zesty] r635 Unit 193 2017-04-06 Update packaging and changelog.... (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> :3
<Unit193> I will never understand bzr merges, btw.
<bluesabre> Yeah, they are a little... straaaange
<Unit193> Because I know I didn't use that message!  OH WELL.  We'll fix that once we convince the docs team to use git.  Noticed when building there was even a git page.
<Unit193> I suppose we should get XC/XTL or someone to ACK on -release.
<flocculant> ali1234: not letting me attach - possibly because marked fixed/resolved. I think ochosi wanted a new bug to cut out the chaff and have a new base to report against
<ali1234> flocculant: okay please make a new one then :)
<flocculant> ali1234: xfce 13481
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13481 in core "Indefinite hang" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13481
<ochosi> bluesabre: just fyi (even if it's too late for zesty), here it is: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases/tag/v3.22.3
 * bluesabre high fives ochosi
 * ochosi high fives back
<ochosi> bluesabre: you should really give xfce-test a try, especially with behave. it could replace most of our manual GUI testing (at least where we have well defined test-cases)
<bluesabre> I know nothing about any of this
 * flocculant thinks he knows about it - thinks it's what he didn't get his head around :p
<flocculant> evening bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> evening flocculant 
<ochosi> soooo
<ochosi> i've backported the "primary" (RandR) support for xfce4-panel to 4.12
<ochosi> any takers?
<ochosi> or even:
<ochosi> s/takers/testers/
<flocculant> what needs testing?
<flocculant> and where?
<ochosi> the feature is that you can in multi-display scenario use the "primary" option to tell the panel where to go
<ochosi> this can be checked in the display dialog
<flocculant> oh right
<ochosi> so e.g. your laptop is always primary if you want
<ochosi> and never "the projector" or whatever
<ochosi> works in gtk3 already
<ochosi> aka git mster
<ochosi> master
 * flocculant has another monitor in the loft ... 
<ochosi> you'll see my branch here any minute: https://git.xfce.org/users/ochosi/xfce4-panel
<flocculant> I'll dig it out over the weekend ... again :p
<knome> :P
<flocculant> hi knome :)
<knome> oi flocculant 
<flocculant> ochosi: I assume I'll need some installation other than zesty for this? 
<ochosi> anything should work with this
<ochosi> it's plain 4.12
<ochosi> with one patch on top
<flocculant> only just got the gtk3 panel 'just so' here recently :D
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> you can test the other thing anywhere else if you prefer to keep the gtk3 panel ;)
<ochosi> anyway, night everyone
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<flocculant> ochosi: if it can wait a day or so I'll do so on a clean zesty once we have RC
<bluesabre> g'night ochosi
<flocculant> and good night :)
<ochosi> knome, pleia2: regarding the shirt - still in memphis i presume (https://xkcd.com/281)
<knome> hehe
<knome> :)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> flocculant: there's no rush with this, the maintenance release won't make it into zesty directly
<flocculant> ochosi: okey doke - I'll concentrate on RC's etc for akxwi-dave this week :)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: unless you think we can sneak in another small patch..?
<ochosi> (it's literally tiny)
<flocculant> but literally needs testing :p
<ochosi> yeah, it's well tested on gtk3 though and the code is identical
<ochosi> it's just in different places ;)
<flocculant> :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r503 Fix buttons in Nautilus notification (closes #168)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r504 Update xfce-panel.rc (by Kate Richardson)
<bluesabre> ochosi: I can try to land those tonight or tomorrow
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-08
<ochosi> bluesabre: if thwres still a chance we should probably organise some testing. only downside is we would have to manually merge in translations from git master, as 4.12 is not being translated anymore afaik
<ochosi> but it has been in git master for a while, so chances that the single word 'primary' has been translated are not exactly zero
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2017-April/001209.html
<ochosi> right, that's still ok, i mean we can also SRU that patch to zesty
<ochosi> after all, the patch is tiny as i said: https://git.xfce.org/users/ochosi/xfce4-panel/commit/?h=primary_for_4_12&id=18df47092dbe6ec45f13e288356153c5f53d9229
<stevehope> @soap $ sudo apt install cmake
<meetingology> stevehope: Error: "soap" is not a valid command.
 * flocculant thanks stevehope for some testing ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-09
<stevehope> :)
<flocculant> knome: what's happening with the slideshow update? 
<stevehope> Final Xubuntu Desktop amd64 passed all testing 5/5 2/2 20170408 bug free :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - i386 - i386 built.
<flocculant> stevehope: in here ;)
 * flocculant can put on 2 of his hats ...
<stevehope> thanks
<stevehope> The Xubuntu installer has the IRC client available for help, and the browser it runs in.  It's a great feature.  As of a week or some ago the vanilla Ubuntu install doesn't include this feature, or didn't mention it in the slides. I think a task should be added to launch #xubuntu from slides during install. It's incredibly helpful for someone with single system to be able to get live help, and to have access to the browser to se
<stevehope> I added this myself to the tests for final xubuntu amd64 that I did, if the test is added I'll add confirmation comments to the iso's I already tested from final
<flocculant> as
<flocculant> bah
<flocculant> stevehope: do you mean add testing that browser/irc works to a testcase?
<flocculant> cos that would mean us re-writing all of the installer testcases just for Xubuntu - currently the install testcases are 'global' ones for the most part
<flocculant> unless we add it to the live testcase - but what we're actually testing at that point is that link works
<stevehope> thats test #xubuntu works from slide during the install, in all ISO xubuntu testcaes that are targeted as attended installations. Hope thats more clear
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> don't really want to have to be supporting extra install testcases - the live testcase should suffice if we do it
<stevehope> not asking if you agree, do you get what i mean?
<flocculant> yea I understand :)
<flocculant> stevehope: what I'm saying is we could have a 'xubuntu' version of http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1303/info 
<flocculant> for it to be on an 'installer' testcase we would have to re-write a complete set of them for Xubuntu
<stevehope> thats my 2c worth :) and yes, adding to the live test makes more sense..... and it's the testcase with the most user interation, so fits the workflow pattern well
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug
<flocculant> make sure to put 1303 in there somewhere as the testcase ref
<flocculant> mmmm
 * flocculant scratches head a bit
<flocculant> live session doesn't see the slideshow
<stevehope> ah ha! my ill informed suggest was right, la
<flocculant> stevehope: thing is - if browser is working then the link from the slideshow will
<flocculant> and browser testing gets done automatically
<stevehope> I was trying to test against it's availibilty during slide show, I don't know the overall relationships well enough to know if thats covered before the slide show starts
<flocculant> it's not tested
<stevehope> do the other flavours of ubuntu have this at all?
<stevehope> its news to me
<flocculant> it's just assumed that if the link worked before - it will now - assuming browser does :)
<flocculant> stevehope: not sure tbh - I test other flavours if I see something break that could affect them - certainly take no notice of their slideshows much
<stevehope> I don;t want to waste too much of your time, I am going to read up a bit
<flocculant> stevehope: don't worry about that :)
<stevehope> how do you know if the browser works?
<flocculant> because 1 - everyone would shout, 2 - canonical autopkg testing 3 - I run the dev version from the day after we release and I would shout louder
<stevehope> lol 
<flocculant> stevehope: what won't happen is the main installer testcase changing here - I can say that with my manual testcase admin hat on
<flocculant> testcases 
<flocculant> nothing to stop us building a testcase for slideshow itself 
<flocculant> whether 'we' (Xubuntu) think that's a good use of people's time - bearing in mind we have hardly any testers reporting things at all ;)
<stevehope> I'm approaching it from a relative total newcomer to linux, trying to get past UEFI on OEM windows machines, like mine, Acer-V3, requires extra toggling of secure boot and manual addition of shimx64.efi as trusted
<flocculant> that said anyone can branch the slideshow from launchpad and run the test script
<flocculant> stevehope: that's good - always good to see new perspectives :)
<flocculant> stevehope: btw > https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers 
<flocculant> stevehope: being part of the the xubuntu-bug team means you will see mail regarding any bug that we 'deal' with
<stevehope> thanks, I was already a member of https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-bugs
<flocculant> yea I know - was just making you aware of what that meant :)
<stevehope> I'm still navigating the various wrokflows, I'll get it eventually
<flocculant> stevehope: if eveer not sure just ask in either here or -offtopic
<flocculant> if it's qa related either akxwi-dave or me for the main part, but anyone should be able to give you clues
<stevehope> thanks, I'll look into that more
<flocculant> and if you stick around for long enough we have https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-qa which is set up specifically to let people who contribute only in testing/qa a way in to the main Xubuntu team
<flocculant> but that's moderated - eg you'll get invited in :) 
<stevehope> I'll be around as long as I'm learning.... retired early due to injury s handso have lots of time on my
<stevehope> opps ... retired early due to injury*
<flocculant> that's not so good :(
<flocculant> but we'll try and keep you busy ;)
<flocculant> stevehope: you seen http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa.html ?
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: did you deal with https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-qa/+editproposedmembers at all? 
<stevehope> my next task for myself is build a docker with a xubuntu base, fully built with some machine learning stuff
<flocculant> stevehope: seen https://hub.docker.com/r/schuellerf/xfce-test/
<flocculant> and if you are going to do that - document it, might well be really useful for others of us 
<flocculant> (especially me who can't suss out the xfce one ... )
<stevehope> i was looking at that one yesterday, it will be a great help as a reference, I want to build it myself  for a specific machine learning config, with python2.x and 3.1 and a few dozen other things
<stevehope> *python 2.7 and 3.51 
<flocculant> I just couldn't make anything work - I suspect there is a 'this is really obvious if you've used these before' step :D
<stevehope> i am going to build it as a docker first, then as a snap
<flocculant> only tried one snap ... bad choice of snaps :p
<stevehope> i have to build damn near everthing from zero if i did the snap first
<stevehope> when sucessful, I'll have a proper xubuntu desktop amd64 part others might find usefull
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  thought we had declined that..   In fact I am 100% positive that we had..
<akxwi-dave> As he had only just joined testers..  I'll look further into it.
<flocculant> ok - just needs removing from list then
<knome> flocculant, nothing atm...
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-02
<flocculant> knome: if we're interested - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/FlavorCSSChanges
<flocculant> to save people looking - to make our canonical download page Xubuntuish :)
<knome> flocculant, ack, i'll make sure that happens
<flocculant> knome: was just a pointer - not an instruction :p
<willem> flocculant, hi. Still on 18.04 daily. Could you check the dropbox icon is working as it should at your end? Here it does now show the menu when clicking on it. I'm in contact with Fiona of dropbox about the issue, but if it is no issue anymore I'd be wasting their time...
<flocculant> willem: I don't use dropbox - just grabbed it to check, then lost it again - sorry
 * flocculant isn't really here 
<willem> creepy this
<knome> flocculant, i know, but since this is relatively trivial, no reason not to use the opportunity :P
<willem> and anyway: what does being here really mean?
<knome> he means that while he sends messages to the channel, he doesn't have full attention to what is written in reply
<willem> I know. Tried to make a philosophical joke
<knome> ;)
<knome> what does being mean...
<willem> I shouldn't perhaps as English is not my own language
<knome> let's begin with that
<willem> I think we should start at what does mean mean
<willem> :-)
 * willem still joking
<knome> it's not the language that is the problem, it's that irc/written language doesn't deliver emotions or intentions very well
<willem> yeah, I should take that into account.
<knome> but really, no worries :)
<knome> jokes are allowed here
<knome> as long as they aren't too good
<willem> well, that should then be ideal for me
<willem> :-)
<willem> I'm very good at not so good jokes ;-)
<knome> yep
<knome> welcome to the dad joke club
<flocculant> bluesabre: do we need a new bug to get the laptop-detect script fixed?
<flocculant> s/need/want
 * willem finally understand why son has decided to live somewhere else
<flocculant> knome: right - you know me and voodoo - wouldn't know trivial from not ;)
<flocculant> willem: :)
<knome> flocculant, well trivial for me... the same way some bug fix might be trivial for bluesabre but not me :P
<flocculant> :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: what's the bug?
<flocculant> bluesabre: it looks in sbin - should look in bin - it changed
<flocculant> ltd=/usr/sbin/laptop-detect but /usr/bin/laptop-detect
<flocculant> bluesabre: unit and krysomething are both aware btw
<flocculant> anyway - afk again
<TJ-> Just suffered mouse not responding to movement after a tty switch; what's the hotkey to access the system application/logout menu?
<flocculant> TJ-: not sure there is one - but I guess that's not needed any longer
<TJ-> flocculant: not right now, but would be handy. I d-r-u-ed another laptop and it had that issue, plus systemd was totally broken, couldn't talk to it from systemctl, services failing all over.
<TJ-> turned out that (minimal) 16.04 xubuntu install - which hasn't been used - had a /var/run/ directory, rather than it being symlink to /run/ - eventually found that because journalctl reported a tag var-run-bad. Worked fine for recovery session. Not sure why/how it was caused originally or whether a postinst script is supposed to correct it.
<flocculant> TJ-: as I said not sure there is one, you can make one - link to xfce4-session-logout, options available - man page has them listed
<flocculant> oh - that sounds nasty - actually just doing a vm 2+
<flocculant> sigh 
<flocculant> oh - that sounds nasty - actually just doing a vm 16.04 to 18.04 - but not minimal
<TJ-> I also notice on that PC the application menu is just a menu - it doesn't have the left-pane favourites list and right-pane categories. 
<TJ-> Ahhh... it has Applications Menu, this one has Whisker Menu. Didn't realise there were alternatives. 
<flocculant> yea
<TJ-> I suspect - on that PC - I started from a debootstrap which would explain things
<flocculant> and that upgrade is failing \o/
<Unit193> bluesabre: Regarding the numlockx bug, it's filed in Debian and I was waiting to see if there'd be movement before fixing it myself.  I'm leaving https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker/issues/108 to you though.
<TJ-> Unit193: I'm still digging into 108
<TJ-> Glad to hear numlock is not just me too, was wondering what I'd done custom
<Unit193> Yeah just a wrong path to laptop-detect.
<TJ-> I thought I'd managed to change the BIOS defaults but when it affected several laptops I realised it wasn't me
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/9IZbUbCcHb65jwZMJ3VQ
<flocculant> Unit193: I assume the green in that paste isn't what you're expecting to change it to?
<Unit193> flocculant: Red = removed, green = added.  It'll check if /usr/sbin/laptop-detect exists and if so use it, but otherwise just go with /usr/bin/laptop-detect.
<flocculant> aah right ok - you know me and voodoo :p
<Unit193> Hey, you just wanted to make sure I didn't screw it up this late.  I can appreciate that.
<flocculant> :)
<TJ-> Ahh, 1 of my systems doesn't have laptop-detect
<Unit193> I have a netbook on Bionic, but not sure if it's *really* affected by such a thing.
<Unit193> TJ-: You could try that patch on the other, to ensure it works for you.
<Unit193> And that is a bit strange, as even Xubuntu core comes with it.
<TJ-> Just about to, although seems better to use which laptop-detect
<TJ-> Unit193: 'that' PC was built up from a debootstrap and --no-install-recommends
<TJ-> Unit193: the other has l-d but has the numlock issue
<flocculant> what is this numlock issue? 
<TJ-> OK, which worked. I edited /etc/X11/Xsessiond.d/55numlockx and changed ltd=/usr/sbin/laptop-detect to ltd=$(which laptop-detect) 
<TJ-> s/Xsessiond.d/Xsession.d/
<Unit193> If you're going to go that route, you may as well just go all the way and just do:  [ $(which laptop-detect 2>&1 1>/dev/null) ] && ! laptop-detect || NUMLOCK=off
<Unit193> The only functional change in tumbler: https://git.xfce.org/xfce/tumbler/commit/?id=a6ebd22f789b3b49aa0eac2fad8a71e300eb13bf
<TJ-> why does xubuntu-desktop Recommends so many different printer drivers? wouldn't those be better as Recommends of a printer meta package?
<Unit193> The only thing *we* seed is system-config-printer, you're looking at the platform: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/platform.bionic/desktop-common
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-03
<TJ-> Unit193: thanks. I was going through the mass of packages that using --install-recommends pulls in. Shame it isn't possible to set that to only operate at the first level, rather than applying to all packages identified
<Unit193> TJ-: Try: sudo apt install xubuntu-core^  and go through that list insead (or same with xubuntu-desktop), even with --no-install-recommends.
<Unit193> But if you install via bootstrap, I'd *highly* recommend using the task over meta, even with --no-install-recommends.
<TJ-> I was just exploring the options for slim vs fat; I've got 5 18.04 xubuntu laptops here and was checking what is really needed
<Unit193> Oh, and there's an appendix in the Xubuntu docs you may want to see.
<flocculant> !team | can people watch for final beta mail today and mail update to threads in dev and users please - I'll likely not see it till late today - thanks :)
<ubottu> can people watch for final beta mail today and mail update to threads in dev and users please - I'll likely not see it till late today - thanks :): team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> ochosi: if you're unable to do a meeting let me know and I will :)
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - also apparently Laney was looking at various timeouts(said jibel) if either of you could ask sometime this week ?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<ochosi> flocculant: i think i can only ask someone else to schedule a meeting, i have no more wiki edit rights anymore
<ochosi> -more
<ochosi> we can schedule one for 10utc (so bluesabre can also make it) tomorrow or on thu this week
<Unit193> Well, that's early.
<ochosi> Unit193: ehat i meant was 22utc
<ochosi> 10utc would actually be complicated for me with work
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: what would work best for you - tonight, tomorrow or thu? (always at 22utc)
<bluesabre> ochosi: I think thursday would work well.
<ochosi> k, then i only need to find someone with wiki edit rights...
<bluesabre> ochosi: looks like I still have them
<knome> ochosi, wait, what, why?
<Unit193> Logged out?
<knome> yeah, must be some kind of slackery
<Unit193> Well, logged out is nearly the same as lost rights sometimes. :3
<knome> :)
<Unit193> subprocess call was too simplified, doesn't manage stderr so kind of wanders off.  This ends up somehow...Sounds like some sort of old, dark magic, but seems to apply.
<Unit193> ...This may be the wrong channel.
 * knome shrugs
<Unit193> FWIW, I'm going with some sort of dark magic, because nothing makes sense of how this is actually happening, but seems to fix it.
<knome> good good
<ochosi> knome: i was only looking for someone to help me schedule the meeting for thu 22utc as i dont have edit rights in the ubuntu wiki anymore
<ochosi> not sure if blues already took care of it
<knome> i mean i can do it but i don't understand how you could not have the permission
<knome> to 5 april?
<knome> err, thu
<knome> wiki updated as well as the team calendar
<knome> (does anybody really use that btw?)
<knome> also, it's after end of march and we still haven't published the results...
<knome> of the wallpaper contest
<ochosi> i use the calendar
<knome> good
<knome> then i'll keep on updating it
<ochosi> thanks, i'll send out the announcement in a bit then
<ochosi> hmright, the wallpaper contest
<ochosi> i think i at least 'did my bit' by voting on all of them
<knome> yes
<knome> i think we just live with the fact that not everybody voted for each submission
<knome> pleia2, did we want to send/offer paper certs for winners?
<akxwi-dave> Well I voted for the ones I liked and didn't.. those that I wasn't bothered about I didn't vote
<knome> akxwi-dave, the idea was to vote on all submissions :P
<knome> but...
<knome> i mean at this point you can either go do that or tell me to sod off
<knome> ;)
<knome> nothing is sent yet
<knome> and my bluetooth mouse stopped working
<knome> mehhh
<knome> brb
<akxwi-dave> oh ok, i'll go and vote on the rest then..  :-)  
<knome> thanks
<knome> i'll check if i need to change my mailing routine then
<knome> (but it's ok)
<akxwi-dave> all done
<knome> thanks akxwi-dave 
<ochosi> meeting mail sent
<ochosi> weird, now i can in fact edit that page again
<ochosi> sry bout the noise then
<knome> akxwi-dave, and sorry, there was no change in the top 10 :P
<knome> i mean technically there could have been.. but not in the order
<knome> slickymaster: ping? :P
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<pleia2> knome: I don't think so
<flocculant> ochosi: thanks :) I would have run one about the same time of week and at a time to suit bluesabre too - would have if you were busy
<flocculant> bluesabre: well - that's just awesome then ;)
<flocculant> not sure how you removed the packages - I tried from recovery session - that worked well ... friendly-recovery decided to not be and not respond to kbd - tried in a vm - same thing, managed to do it all prior to first login when there was no .xsession-errors
<flocculant> and found the same as you 
<flocculant> pleia2 knome - could you give beta testing some love on social stuff
<flocculant> thanks :)
<pleia2> yep
<flocculant> I can do facepalm in a bit
<pleia2> facepal...oh, hah!
<flocculant> :)
<pleia2> should I wait until they show up at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/388/builds ?
<pleia2> (was just looking at the mailing list post)
<flocculant> nah - that's where they will be 
<pleia2> people have short attention spans, if they see it now and click on it and empty, they won't come back until reminded ;)
<flocculant> if we wait for that - who knows - we're not even re-building yet
<pleia2> but there's nothing for them to do yet, right? or ..?
<flocculant> pleia2: not at the moment
<pleia2> I could do a "things will show up here, so get your testing systems ready!" tweet now
<pleia2> then follow-up when it's alive
<flocculant> ok 
<willem> pleia2, flocculant If I  may be so bold: I think it's good strategy to first get a "process" signal out (we're about to do rebuilds, be prepared...kind of thing) and then when the builds are live the actual mails with links
<willem> it would get my attention anyway :-)
<pleia2> email I totally agree :) it's just hard with social media since people seem to click and act, if there's nothing to do right away we lose their attention
<flocculant> I assume pleia2 meant willem there :p
<flocculant> and even before they've rebuilt there's talk of respins
<flocculant> and new kernel in -proposed
<pleia2> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/981235511674126336
<pleia2> did similar on G+
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks :)
<flocculant> I'll likely wait for facepalm 
<flocculant> that's even worse for involvement
<willem> just liked the twitter message; so my 3 followers will be awake now ;-)
<pleia2> hehe
<flocculant> willem: I agree - though I have to say that ever the last 3 or 4 years we have tried many different approaches and unfortunately what I've taken from that is that generally our users think there is a software fairy that does it all for them while they sleep
<willem> flocculant, I don't really blame them I think,
<willem> : you are fairies of sorts. We, end users, don't see your processes, we don't see you work
<flocculant> mmm
<willem> we don't look you up here on irc
<willem> because that's not a "natural" place to go for end users like me
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> but you can read e-mails?
<willem> yes, that's true
<flocculant> because all the people on both the lists - get those ;)
<willem> yeah, forgot about that... hmmm 
<flocculant> and we do the social media things 
<willem> so, that's my theory down the drain then
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> mostly it's about catching people at the right time and engaging - like with you
 * willem heading over to G+ to see whether it still exists and then like the testing message
<flocculant> anyway - enough of this 6 monthly cyclical gripe from me :p
<willem> no, no, I understand your frustration
<flocculant> :)
<willem> ((just woke up my 2 G+ followers..))
<pleia2> hehe, thanks
<flocculant> I don't mean you - I say the same things every cycle - and I'm likely as bored by it as everyone else is
<willem> I experience the same thing at work: people enjoy the ride until you ask them to do stuff, then they look at their watches: jeez, is that the time?
<flocculant> :)
<willem> What did it for me: your message about testing to keep the community alive came just after I had (again) ditched KDE Neon to again get back to Xubuntu, and felt relieved to be back
<willem> because xubuntu is just what I need for my daily work
<flocculant> that's what I mean by the right time - but that's impossible to gauge ;)
<willem> yeah, you're right. 
<willem> ((good grief: just discovered I have 17 G+ followers; are you guys sure your server will cope? ;-))
<pleia2> lol
<flocculant> :)
<pleia2> willem: what is your twitter handle?
<flocculant> biab - dad taxi
<willem> pleia2, uhm.. have to look that up ;-(
<pleia2> hehe
<willem> brb
<willem> pleia2, @hoblem
<pleia2> oh, secrets secrets
<willem> pleia2, your Dutch any good? ;-)
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> I can barely speak English ;D
<willem> I think I have now my 4th twitter follower :-)
<pleia2> :D
<willem> BTW: thunderbird thought I was sent an emailscam. 
<willem> And gmail didn't like the link to twitter either :-(
 * flocculant giggles at bug 1760955 then toddles off
<ubottu> bug 1760955 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Long message when all indicators are hidden" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760955
<knome> pleia2, ok, then i won't mention that :)
<knome> willem, i'm not really sure what the actual scope of the bug you showed is (ping ochosi) but does this happen with the elementary-xfce-* icon themes as well?
<willem> Adwaita and elementary xfce dark: http://i.imgur.com/a2wz4Jo.png
<willem> Adwaita and elementary xfce darker: http://i.imgur.com/8dMSDlL.png
<willem> adwaita and elementary sxfe darkest: http://i.imgur.com/37uZcpn.png
<willem> Are these links helpful?
<ochosi> willem: sry from the screenshots alone i dont get the bug - is there a report/description already?
<willem> ochosi, no, apart from the screen cast I posted earlier, I have no report yet; I was trying to find out where to report this and asked flocculant for help; he ppinted to you and knome. You have seen the screen cast? 
<willem>  https://www.dropbox.com/s/hinzabgbx7yb4x7/Schermopname%202018-03-29%2015%3A24%3A13.mp4?dl=0 
<willem> knome, ochosi I'll be offline for quite some time now; I'm not certain I've set up my znc bouncer correctly, so I may miss any queries you may post from now on.
<willem> I'll check in tomorrow, or the day after. Let me know where to report this bug (if it is a bug), and against which package or theme or what have you.
<ochosi> okeydokey
<flocculant> pleia2: aaand - it's built ;)
<flocculant> at least this version is ...
<ochosi> willem: thats not default adwaita, by default it has a bright panel
<ochosi> did you use something like gtk-theme-config..?
<ochosi> anyway, thats only a theme bug
<flocculant> ochosi: evening :)
<ochosi> heya
<flocculant> thanks for doing meeting - useful timing just after beta finishes \o/
<ochosi> no worries
<ochosi> would have scheduled earlier, but it was a tight easter weekend
<flocculant> I shall be about - but likely a bit sleepier than normal ;)
<ochosi> hehe, good good
<flocculant> ack - I was in and out most of the weekend
<ochosi> i need to try to reproduce the LL issue i guess
<ochosi> and check where xfpm and xfsettingsd handle lid stuff
<flocculant> the resolution one?
<flocculant> oh that - yea good luck there ;)
<ochosi> no, that one i'm not too concerned about
<ochosi> its not pretty but at least it doesnt break stuff
<flocculant> indeed :)
<ochosi> plus its actually the driver at fault (at least probably)
<flocculant> and also I believe that nvidia is putting up a bit of a struggle around the place this cycle 
<flocculant> ha ha - more or less snap there :p
<ochosi> the backlight issue sucks far more
<ochosi> and bluetooth is a little out of scope for me
<flocculant> yea for sure 
<ochosi> i only have devices *with* bt, so as far as i understood i have no way to reproduce anyway
<ochosi> plus its not just our problem
<flocculant> though the lappy I managed to resurrect seems ok - though battery is fubar, so if it's that making it worse - can't test
<flocculant> yea - that helps, though I'm not even sure if flexiondotorg looked there since I mentioned it
<TJ-> someone mention bluetooth?
<ochosi> yeah, and light-locker issue 108 ;)
<TJ-> 108 is mine
<TJ-> what's this BT issue, don't think I've spotted that
<TJ-> I've been hacking on BT for about 10 years so might have some insight
<flocculant> bug 1754836
<ubottu> bug 1754836 in bluez (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu: ERROR:dbus.proxies:Introspect error on org.bluez:/org/bluez: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.TimedOut: Failed to activate service 'org.bluez': timed out (service_start_timeout=25000ms)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754836
<flocculant> that one
<flocculant> that we're not even sure of now
<flocculant> idling for a while
<TJ-> do we know if bluesabre, when removing those packages, did a purge? Because I'm wondering if some DBus activation conf files were left behind
<TJ-> I could try reproducing here by pulling the BT module's connection.
<TJ-> The Introspection is the interesting part - something is trying to reverse-engineer the interface presented by bluez. I'd be focusing on the DBus activation side since I'd assume bluez won't publish an interface is there isn't a BT HCI 
<TJ-> what is VERY interesting is the system config doesn't run, it has "Exec=/bin/false" -- /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.bluez.service
<TJ-> Ahh, that's because it's left to systemd to activate it via /lib/systemd/system/bluetooth.service
<ochosi> TJ-: i know thats your bugreport, btw are you still working on debugging that one?
<ochosi> if so i can at least add the relevant parts from the xfce side as references
<TJ-> ochosi: working on it but it's intermittent so I have to 'catch' it :)
<TJ-> I've got an LP bug for it too
<TJ-> Bug #1759950
<ubottu> bug 1759950 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Lid-close suspend: blank screen when switching to user session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759950
<TJ-> ochosi: I'm leaning towards the fact that it only affects very fast systems (race condition) all my less capable laptops are fine
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> was there a patch or anything from your side already?
<TJ-> ochosi: My current hypothesis is that the lid-close events causes light-locker to disable baclklight... but on resume A new display server is launched for the greeter on vt8, and that starts so quickly that the user session is switched away from light-locker before it receives the activate event so light-locker never re-enables it's internal backlight tracking variable. Thus, on each switch back to vt7
<TJ-> it resets the state of the backlight to 'off'
<TJ-> No, my patches are just inserting debug messages to gain additional insight
<TJ-> In my next session I'm going to figure out how to insert a long delay in starting the display server on vt8 for the greeter
<ochosi> TJ-: sounds like a plan
<bluesabre> TJ-: ah, didn't purge
<TJ-> I've added some comment and a manual DBus test you can do to simulate the issue
<bluesabre> flocculant: when I was testing, I created a new user, removed the packages, and rebooted. Seemed sufficient since I could reproduce on first login for any user
<TJ-> I think it is what I've mentioned in the bug report ... the other flavours don't ship apps using DBus to talk to blueze
<bluesabre> I think blueman does it directly, and the other flavors utilize gnome-bluetooth or other bt libraries
<pleia2> knome: hold up for a moment
<knome> pleia2, what?
<pleia2> knome: the URLs are correct when you look at them with your eyes, but they're all *linking to* the tree one
<knome> pleia2, 4/6 mails are gone already :|
<knome> really?
<knome> hmm...
<pleia2> yes, clicky
<knome> ughy ughy
<knome> well
<knome> i'll fix that for the rest two
<pleia2> k
<knome> and send replies to the other ones :)
<pleia2> sgtm
<knome> the reason why you should never send html mail
<pleia2> ++
<knome> and also, mailing list archive even shows this correctly (of course)
<pleia2> omnomnom html email
<knome> ok, does that fix it for you (too)?
<pleia2> yes, good job
<knome> thank you
 * knome bows
<pleia2> and thanks for taking care of this :)
<knome> good thing that we spotted that now
<knome> no problems
<knome> now we wait anxiously
<TJ-> bluesabre: yes, blueman uses Dbus, the others I think use libbluetooth
<TJ-> bluesabre: which would explain why it's the user session that suffers most
<knome> hozzah, first reply!
<ochosi> TJ-: i presume you already found the part where there is already a delay in the switching to greeter
 * pleia2 starts making note of people to send stickers to
<knome> pleia2, great, i'll also let you know if somebody sends me their address in private
<pleia2> kk
<knome> ochosi, do we want to ask for as big as possible resolution or are we content with 2560x1440/1660?
<knome> ochosi, since you're the artwork boss
<ochosi> i guess we won't run into sizing issues, but i'd go with a realistic resolution (e.g. 4k?) instead of the "random biggest resolution" for each pic
<knome> i mean of course
<knome> but the question was if we wanted to even ask for >2k
<TJ-> ochosi: yes
<TJ-> ochosi: but it looks like there could be two DBus clients, one reported in syslog (pre-greeter) and those in .xsession-errors
<knome> i guess 4k is really the only bigger "realistic" resolution
<ochosi> knome: i'd ask for biggest and if it turns out that only few reach 4k we go with the 2560x1440 one
<TJ-> ochosi: the obvious solution is to have a startup job that checks whether org.bluez is activate-able and if not disables them, so stops blueman from autostart-ing, disables which-ever system client is trying to access it. Needs doing each boot in case a BT device is added
<knome> for sensibility, i'd ask "do you have 4k" and if they do, include that even if not all of them do
<knome> because why not?
<knome> it's the best possible service we can offer
<ochosi> TJ-: oh, you're talking about bt again while i was talking about light-locker :)
<TJ-> ochosi: oh! Right now BT looks easier to solve :D
<ochosi> knome: yeah, that's what i'd go with
<ochosi> TJ-: lol, ok ok :)
<knome> ochosi, ok, that's what we'll do then
<TJ-> ochosi: I don't see any delay in the greeter, is that some other bug I'm not seeing or a config setting
<ochosi> TJ-: the delay is when resuming to the greeter
<ochosi> it's currently hardcoded to 1s
<TJ-> yeah... i saw that with associated comments about trying to avoid a race condition
<ochosi> https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker/blob/master/src/gs-monitor.c#L354
<ochosi> but tbh i don't see light-locker deactivating the backlight anywhere
<TJ-> it asks lightdm to do; l-l does the interfacing but the heavy lifting is delegated to lightdm
<ochosi> hm, i must've overlooked that part then
<ochosi> this one does it too btw: https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/tree/xfsettingsd/displays.c#n1337
<TJ-> I'm still hypothesising, but from what I've seen so far and the code, it won't make the user session visible if it's not active. If I'm correct and the vt8 greeter is active before that point it won't do priv->visble = TRUE 
<TJ-> I'll try to reproduce it again tomorrow, which likely means having to do a cold boot 
<ochosi> tbh i'm not sure who catches the lid event first
<ochosi> both services are listening to upower
<TJ-> right... that's why I have to drop debug code in all over... makes my mind go numb trying to keep track
<TJ-> I wish userspace were more like the kernel and I could attach probes just as easily
<ochosi> TJ-: here is another one: https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/tree/src/xfpm-manager.c#n450
<ochosi> put it all into the issue as well
<TJ-> I've been monitoring the DPMS state externally and it isn't incorrect
<ochosi> in which sense?
<TJ-> the only value that changes is the bl_power on the backlight device
<ochosi> right, but who changes it?
<TJ-> That's what I'm trying to find out :)
<TJ-> it's obviously related to vt switch otherwise all VTs would be dark
<ochosi> or lid close?
<ochosi> although that should be easy to test
<TJ-> and the 'off' only gets triggered by lid_close 
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> so lid close
<ochosi> anyway, gotta get some sleep
<TJ-> lid_close causes backlight off for that VT. Resume and blacklight is fine on all VTs but the user session on VT7
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> so either lightdm fails
<TJ-> ha, it is a blacklight too... I meant backlight :D
<TJ-> lightdm is firing up the greeter on VT8 isn't it?
<ochosi> actually it must be lightdm
<ochosi> because nothing in the session gets the lid open event
<ochosi> because the seat is locked
<TJ-> but it get's told what to do by light-locker for the VT, so if l-l on VT7 says 'off' whenever VT7 is selected that state is restored
<ochosi> (at least if i remember how lightdm worked correctly)
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> so if e.g. xfsettingsd switches off the backlight (or xfpm) within the session
<ochosi> then lightdm would restore that
<TJ-> light-locker gets the the lid_open event, but it seems to get it whilst VT7 is not in use, so it doesn't react properly to it (due to visible == false)
<ochosi> but neither xfsettingsd nor xfpm would restore the backlight because they only do that when they get the lid_open event
<ochosi> yeah, light-locker has the same problem as xfsettingsd and xfpm ^
<ochosi> all of them are "trapped" in the locked seat
<TJ-> I've not seen any indications of xfpm reacting - I've dropped debug code in there
<ochosi> yeah, i'm not surprised
<ochosi> i think it should be halted during the locked session
<ochosi> as pretty much everything else (nice indication is music playback pausing)
<ochosi> i wouldn't expect it to receive signals or act on them
<TJ-> without light locker enabled there's never a problem so it must be something l-l is missing
<ochosi> without light-locker you remain in the same VT
<TJ-> the 'close' side looks fine, the 'open' side has a problem. 
<ochosi> so xfsettingsd and xfpm can react
<ochosi> mhm, sounds reasonable to suspect
<TJ-> Well yes, but ... with the screensaver enabled, I did think I noticed a couple of times a brief sign of the screensaver before the greeter showed up
<TJ-> and screensaver is on VT7 
<ochosi> that may depend on your graphics driver even
<TJ-> we're talking a fraction of a second, but if I recall correctly, it looked to be animating, so it wasn't just an old framebuffer image
<ochosi> sometimes even on wakeup from lid_close some people would see their desktop for the fraction of a second
<ochosi> (those without an additional screensaver)
<TJ-> right, first thing I checked was the i915
<TJ-> Anyhow, as I said, I'll try to provoke it tomorrow and get some more accurate debug output
<ochosi> alrighty
<ochosi> good plan
<ochosi> and with that - > good night! :)
<TJ-> it's not a major issue since I can suspend from CLI or the power button before closing the lid, then it resumes fine
<TJ-> good night and thanks for all your donated brain power!
<TJ-> Got another interesting issue here; just resumed 1 PC and it's stuck in a loop constantly starting and failing a greeter Xorg on VT8, such that it's not possible to switch VTs via keyboard. I'm on via SSH trying to figure out how to stop it spawning new Xorg endlessly
<ali1234> stopping lightdm will do it
<TJ-> Not a good idea, there's an active user session I don't want to lose :)
<ali1234> oh, is the beta iso out?
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-04
<ali1234> someone reported test results for it already :)
<TJ-> The mailing list said Thursday
<TJ-> haha, I thought I had a bright idea to stop the Xorg on :1 being spawned. "chmod -x /usr/bin/Xorg" -- that killed the Xorg on :0 !! I thought once a program was mapped and running that shouldn't affect it
<TJ-> Interesing denial of service avenue :)
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> you might find this useful
<ali1234> sometimes when i am debugging system components that you can't run directly, what i do is replace the binary with a shim that logs when it is started and the arguments and then runs the real binary
<ali1234> this can help find race conditions if eg something is run twice accidentally
<TJ-> yeah, I use the method sometimes
<TJ-> I usually use a --bind mount over the original
<ali1234> hmm i am confused
<ali1234> alt-f1 on the login screen makes the font bigger?
<ali1234> and alt-f2 switches to high contrast?
<ali1234> alt-f3 = osk?
<ali1234> but how do i get to a console?
<TJ-> On an X server it's Ctrl+Alt+F1-Fx
<TJ-> But when on a console VT it only needs Alt+Fx
<ali1234> yeah, but it doesn't seem to work on the xubunut login screen
<ali1234> it works after login
<TJ-> works here on 3 laptops, just tested. You have to release the Alt key and re-press it though, you can't sit your finger on it
<ali1234> not for me
<TJ-> I've got 3 very different laotops here all are OK
<ali1234> probably vbox being weird
<TJ-> ahhh, yes
<ali1234> i tried your dbus line, it just prints usage :(
<ali1234> oh, there should be a space between / and org
<TJ-> yeah, DBus is a pain with it's replication of naming in service, interface, and path
<TJ-> If you ever want to understand it better, install and run the GUI d-feet which allows you to browse the system and session trees as well as execute methods with or without arguments. Great aid in figuring out how to use the dbus-send CLI
<ali1234> so i noticed that during first login, xfsettingsd uses 100% CPU for several seconds
<ali1234> that is something that does not happen on subsequent logins
<ali1234> exit
<ali1234> hmmmm
<ali1234> got a thread to pull on...
<ali1234> log out -> delete ~/.cache -> login - the delay comes back
<TJ-> is it the thumbnailer ?
<ali1234> that doesn't appear to generate anything in .cache
<ali1234> or hasn't yet anyway
<ali1234> oh, it could be
<ali1234> nope
<TJ-> does 'top' reveal what's running? or you could start "inotifywait -rm $HOME/.cache/" from a tty then login the GUI, see what files/paths are accessed/written
<ali1234> it's the fontconfig subdirectory that triggers it
<ali1234> or rather the absense of it
<ali1234> i will keep pulling :)
<ali1234> top doesn't reveal as much as i thought it might... seems like everything is running at once
<TJ-> ahhh, yes, GUI font cache.. prerenders the glyphs first time
<ali1234> but why so slow?
<TJ-> takes a while if it generates bitmaps for all glyphs on all fonts and sizes configured by the theme, etc.
<TJ-> I'm guessing but it makes sense
<ali1234> so what you're saying is... it's ochosi's fault? ;)
<TJ-> haha no... it could be something entirely different
<knome> that's very likely though
<knome> ;)
<knome> anyway, nighty :)
<ali1234> we had a missing icon cache before, maybe there is some font cache missing too
<ali1234> all of the cache files in fontconfig are generated within 1 second of each other
<ali1234> or... wait, that's minutes
<ali1234> hmmmm
<ali1234> remember these numbers: d0972 6333f
<ali1234> TJ-: is there a way to make inotifywait print timestamps?
<TJ-> yes, use the --format xxxxxxxx option (see "man inotifywait" )
<ali1234> it seems to be tied to a specific cache file
<ali1234> it better not be noto sans. i hate noto sans
<TJ-> at least you've got a good lead now
<ali1234> i'm deleting half the files and re-logging
<ali1234> down to [89ab]* now
<ali1234> down to 3 files now
<ali1234> hmmmmmm... got you
<ali1234> deleting just one font cache file delays login by 60 seconds... it's the one that starts 9b...
<TJ->  9b89f8e3dae116d678bbf48e5f21f69b-le32d4.cache-7 ?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> NotoSerif
<ali1234> argh
<ali1234> and also NotoSans
<ali1234> i knew it :(
<ali1234> Noto is google's replacement for Droid font. it supports ALL OF UNICODE, so it is absolutely enourmous
<TJ-> Yes
<ali1234> 9b* is specifically the CJK variants
<ali1234> even with how big it is, 1 minute still seems excessive
<TJ-> how big is it though?
<ali1234> 85MB for the stff referenced in 9b*
<TJ-> I've got the same font selected and that file is only 44KB
<ali1234> Noto is like 50 different font files though
<ali1234> /usr/share/fonts/truetype/noto and /usr/share/fonts/opentype/noto
<ali1234> hmm something is messed up here
<ali1234> all the other fonts in opentype/ are otfs
<ali1234> noto is .ttc files... what even are those?
<ali1234> a "font collection" apparently
<TJ-> treutype-collection /
<ali1234> well, time to add my findings on the bug
<TJ-> I wonder why it's doing that. I've just deleted the .cache/fontconfig/ directory and logged in again and it's not being recreated
<TJ-> OK, I've found out how to run it: "fc-cache -f" ... and the cache is taken a long time to build
<TJ-> only 1.1M but took about 30 seconds
<TJ-> "fc-cache -vf" is more helpful
<ali1234> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=845058
<ubottu> Debian bug 845058 in fonts-noto-cjk "fonts-noto: Installing the package freezes all graphical applications." [Normal,Open]
<TJ-> and it is sitting on /usr/share/fonts/opentype/noto
<TJ-> says there's only 24 fonts in there
<ali1234> yeah. the four collections have 8, 8, 4, and 4 fonts
<ali1234> according to file
<ali1234> but each one has all of the CJK unicode
<TJ-> the source is 85MB
<ali1234> the installed files are 85MB too
<ali1234> the non-CJK part of Noto is at /usr/share/fonts/truetype/noto and is 26MB but it is 156 fonts
<TJ-> fc-list -v | less  helps to see the extend of the Noto* faces
<TJ-> What language is that system set to? Mine are set to en_GB-UTF-8 
<ali1234> same
<TJ-> I don't see those big files being generated
<ali1234> what big files?
<TJ-> oh, thought you said the cache files were large, but you were talking about the file referenced
<TJ-> as in the /usr/share/opentype/oto
<ali1234> right. the cache is like 50kb
<ali1234> it just takes a really long time to generate it when you log in
<TJ-> right, so the delay is worse on slower CPUs presumably, and/or slow I/O 
<ali1234> fc-cache -vf takes 12 seconds
<ali1234> most of which is spent on noto cjk
<TJ-> is yours generating a system cache in /var/cache/fontconfig/ too?
<ali1234> i didn't run it as root, so i guess not
<TJ-> no, I'm wondering if any system job is also run first time, that adds to the delay
<ali1234> deleting user's cache causes 60 seconds of delay
<TJ-> aha, postinst
<TJ-> /var/lib/dpkg/info/fontconfig.postinst:  fc-cache -s -f -v 1>/var/log/fontconfig.log 2>&1 || (printf "failed.\nSee /var/log/fontconfig.log for more information.\n"; exit 1)
<TJ-> how about if you only remove the content of $HOME/.cache/fontconfig/ rather than the entire .cache directory?
<TJ-> maybe it's several tasks doing a similar thing?
<ali1234> that's what i did
<TJ-> oh, thought you meant you were removing the entire .cache
<ali1234> i only delete the file 9b89f8e3dae116d678bbf48e5f21f69b-le32d4.cache-7 - nothing else
<ali1234> this delays login by 60 seconds
<TJ-> so the slowness is accessing /usr/share/font/opentype/noto/*
<ali1234> seems like it
<TJ-> you could monitor that with inotifywait 
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmm
<ali1234> i uninstalled fonts-noto-hinted (listed in the "differences" file) and the problem goes away
<ali1234> not sure what that actually removed
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmmm... with that package removed... nothing is generated in ~/.cache/fontconfig
<ali1234> it also removed xubuntu-default-settings
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmm
<ali1234> i reinstalled all the packages and still nothing gets generated in the cache on login
<ali1234> time to reinstall i guess
<Unit193> donofrio: software-properties (0.96.24.25) may help your issue.
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> there is some kind of problem with /var/cache/fontconfig
<Woowoo678> How/where should I report a bug related to upgrading the distro from version 16.04?
<ali1234> depends on the bug
<Woowoo678> it looks like some residual upstart configurations break lightdm after the switch to systemd
<Woowoo678> prevented me from logging into any sessions
<ali1234> not sure about that
<ali1234> oh no
<ali1234> it isnt the mtime
<ali1234> the cache files are corrupt
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r677 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of xubuntu-dev)
<knome> blog article prepared for announcing the results but don't go wild before we have a confirmation from all winners
 * bluesabre tries being less wild
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=, bluesabre.
<bluesabre> Unit193: woohoo numlockx fix
<Unit193> Sort of.
<bluesabre> ?
<Unit193> Not accepted.
<TJ-> My issue with a resume-time greeter vt8 Xorg constant restart - on upgrade to 18.04 nvidia-340 had replaced nouveau. Rid the system of nvidia and it works fine.
<slickymasterWork> willem, Im almost sure you're aware of https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2018-April/011634.html but in all cases here it is
<willem> ochosi, yesterday you said "willem: thats not default adwaita, by default it has a bright panel" and asked "did you use something like gtk-theme-config?"
<willem> I didn't. Not knowingly that is. Trying to run gtk-theme-config in terminal says "Command 'gtk-theme-config' not found, but can be installed with:"
<willem> Still... you've got more important things to do. I thought this would be a simple fix...
<willem> rebooting now to start testing the final beta...
<willem> slickymasterWork, I had sort of gotten the message ;-) Testing live session now. Does not go to plan unfortunately... will report on the tracker
<flocculant> ali1234: thanks for the font cache stuff - I did read most of it this morning - also saw you pinging in -desktop
<flocculant> Unit193: does the numlock script definitely check for laptops with seperate kbd and turn it on in those cases? if it does could you comment on the bug for me please :
<flocculant> I wondered why I couldn't tab to Unit in here 
<willem> testing live session final beta, quick question: shouldn't the live session, after building up the desktop, when it finds wifi networks, pop up a message in the right top corner telling me about wifi networks being present?
<willem> disregard my question... remembered I had another laptop I could use to test; so I found the answer myself
<flocculant> bluesabre: I assume that we'll release this beta with the issues?
<flocculant> don't particularly want to do that - but guessing I'll not have a choice - also don't mean that to sound like it does, but I'm too tired now to dig out the thesauraus :)
<flocculant> read replies at stupid o'clock tomorrow
<Unit193> flocculant: Hah, and yes it's certainly *supposed* to at least.
<bluesabre> flocculant: I don't think we have a beta release blocker bug
<bluesabre> Unless there's one I've missed. Seems like everything is hunky dory once you login once
<ali1234> flocculant: will cooke mentioned wanting to get it fixed for the beta, but i think the problem is a little bit tricky due to it being an interaction with the livecd
<ali1234> the good news is we know exactly the cause of the problem now. someone just needs to figure out the right way to fix it
<bluesabre> ali1234: that's in relation to the bluetooth bug?
<ali1234> yeah. bluetooth timeout is a red herring
<ali1234> it was fontconfig all alon
<bluesabre> wowza
<TJ-> hehehe, ali1234 did some great debugging last night
<bluesabre> And it's because we carry the monstrous noto font library?
<ali1234> i just posted this complete description of the full problem: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103652#c6
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 103652 in fc-cache "fontconfig requires nano second precison for fontcache" [Normal,New]
<ali1234> noto makes it slow but the rebuild should not run at all
<ali1234> and it seems like fontconfig taking ~1 minute to rebuild the cache delays all other processes from starting, so they all time out too. bluez, and ubuntu has a similar problem with g-s-d
<bluesabre> ali1234: excellent work figuring that all out
<bluesabre> and TJ- too, I saw you also poking at it
<ali1234> a lot of people have been poking this one because it's so widespread
<ali1234> someone noticed it happening in debian in november :)
<bluesabre> wowza
<TJ-> could we use a sneaky fix? just 'touch ...' the files to stop fc rebuilding the cache?
<ali1234> no, touch doesn't work because the timestamps are embedded in the cache files
<ali1234> and also they have to exactly match, not just be newer
<ali1234> we could do what ubuntu does and force a font cache rebuild inside the installed system during install
<ali1234> then only the live desktop will be delayed
<ali1234> first login on install will not
<TJ-> read the file's internal timestamp and apply it ?
<ali1234> teres a bunch of different ways to work around it. i'm sure laney will come up with something good :)
<TJ-> the timestamp is at offset 0x30 in the cache file, it's a standard time_t
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> but then there is a second timestamp at 0x38 which is nanosecond accurate. that is the problem
<ali1234> squashfs doesn't support that, so that part of the timestamp gets zeroed
<ali1234> (the second field is just the nanoseconds)
<ali1234> squashfs wipes it from the actual files, but because it is embedded in the cache file, it survives there
<TJ-> ali1234: right, I get that, but for the installed system a .postinst script could use touch to set the correct timestamp on each cache file by reading the internal timestamp
<ali1234> could do, or it could just rerun fc-cache which is simpler :)
<TJ-> Because the .postinst already has a stanza to trigger an fc-cache if needed
<ali1234> that will happen anyway as soon as you update any font package
<TJ-> but that is what we're trying to prevent isn't it? the fc-cache run
<ali1234> well, not ubuntu
<ali1234> they want to fix it for the live cd, because they already rebuild the cache during install, so they are not affected on first login
<ali1234> but if it's fixed in the live cd, that will fix it for us as well
<TJ-> the /postinst fc-cache run is ignored because the cache files are copied in but then when fontconfig is called on it sees wrong timestamps and calls fc-cache - do I have that correct?
<ali1234> yes but you're missing one part - when fontconfig gets called it doesn't have root so it rebuilds it only for one user
<TJ-> for squashs I wonder if an overlayfs would help ... not sure we can do metadata only though
<ali1234> that's why it happens again on first login
<ali1234> during the live desktop it rebuilds it for the live user and that's wiped on reboot
<TJ-> yeah, the patch is the way to go I think. I was just thinking for the Thursday deadline for the beta ISOs, depending on what time tomorrow. I read earlier the ISO gen started this morning
<ali1234> the ultimate fix would be to add nanos support to squashfs but of course that would be a huge change during beta
<TJ-> and ultimately not very useful
<TJ-> the assumption by fontconfig is the problem
<ali1234> the assumption is only that files will never be moved between a filesystem that supports nanos and one that doesn't
<ali1234> another possible fix would be to strip the nanos before building the iso cache
<ali1234> they are going to disappear anyway, that would just mean doing it slightly earlier
<TJ-> yeah, it's a weird one though, worrying about the nanoseconds for a font cache
<ali1234> it looks like fontconfig can be built entirely without support for nanos so that would be another option
<TJ-> I wish I could build a system entirely without support for bugs :D
<TJ-> We could also build the ISO images on ext4 without the extra_isize feature to disable nanosecond  timestamps :)
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> that would mean big changes to LP builders though
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-05
<FurretUber> I've bought a controller (yay!) and I noticed that when I'm playing a game using it, the screen turns off because of the power settings, as if I was not pressing anything
<bluesabre> FurretUber: yeah, controller input doesn't register as a power inhibiting event
<bluesabre> Updated release notes for final beta, https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.04/release-notes
<FurretUber> Are there plans to correct https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13979 ?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13979 in General "Some application names are not localized in applications menu" [Normal,Needinfo]
<FurretUber> For 18.04 release
<bluesabre> FurretUber: makes sense to. Not sure garcon has a current maintainer, but I might try to resolve it this weekend.
<bluesabre> Tidied up blueprints a bit
<bluesabre> nighty all
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks :)
<flocculant> Unit193: grabbed numlockx from -proposed - I assume the update should change the naughty line in 55numlockx? or do we need to do that seperately? 
<flocculant> because if we don't 'need' to - I've got news for you :p
<flocculant> that said as I wake up - I think my assumption is wrong in the first place ... I now assume that's from one of our xubuntu-* things
<Unit193> 55numlockx is from numlockx.
<flocculant> mmm perhaps it took a reboot then - now see else ... /usr/bin
<flocculant> if I had a useful laptop I'd check :p
<flocculant> vm showed change immediately so I guess I was half asleep
<flocculant> ali1234 bluesabre - re 'someone noticed it in debian in november' so that's around when I first noticed it and asked if anyone could reproduce ... really must ask these things in CAPSLOCK next time ;)
<flocculant> bluesabre: last ping this morning for you - marked us ready
<willem> hi all. I'll have time to do some more testing later today. Just wondering what the right strategy is: should I keep testing with the beta 2 ISO as I downloaded it yesterday? Or should I use zsync to keep it up to date?
<knome> willem, unless there has been respins, the ISO is the same (that's the whole point of the freezes)
<willem> I'm new to this, so bear with me: a respin is a new version/build of something? The final beta will be frozen for now? And if there is a respin of the beta that will be announced so that I can update my iso?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - i386 - i386 built.
<bluesabre> flocculant: CAPSLOCK? Did you say something, that's all I was able to read. :D
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<flocculant> willem: I marked final beta ready this morning - so no more required - and you only need zsync when a respin happens
<willem> so, no worries then?
<flocculant> nope - all good :)
<willem> :-)
<willem> I'll resume testing the dailies again then, shall I?
<flocculant> you can have a rest now - the daily is effectively pointless now till tomorrow :)
<ali1234> flocculant: i think laney just uploaded the fontconfig patch
<willem> Is the number of "issues" found in the second beta more or less what you'd expect in this point of time?
<flocculant> willem: pretty much
<flocculant> ali1234: ack - just been looking in -desktop
<willem> good. IÂ´ll be at the piano then... :-) Back tomorrow, end of the day I expect.
<flocculant> have a good time in between then :)(
<flocculant> :)
<enyc> Humm, who shoul be IPv6-enabling the xubuntu services please?
<enyc> canonical have IPv6-enabled on vairous fty anh otherwise, as well as their 91.189. etc [e.g. for www.xubuntu.org]
<enyc> the wiki.xubuntu.org,  on linode, needs tohe server advin to turn on IPv6 with linode (NB: be careful of IPv6 forward-formimed reverse-DNS to avoid email trouble), and add AAAA-pointers there.
<flocculant> knome pleia2 ^^
<pleia2> yes, I'm very familiar with using IPv6 on Linode ;)
<pleia2> we just haven't bothered since the migration from canonical, I can do it if there's interest
<pleia2> the main blocker is that xubuntu.org can't have it (still Canonical-hosted) so I wasn't sure about enabling some of our resources, but not others
<enyc> pleia2:what!?!?!? caninical have IPv6
<enyc> pleia2: e.g. ftp.ubuntu.com all dual stacked
<enyc> pleia2: you can definitely enabled separate services one at atime
<pleia2> enyc: are you sure? the last time I asked they hadn't added IPv6 to the community servers
<knome> enyc, thing is we have root access to only certain subdomains.
<pleia2> enyc: I know I can ;) I do know how to use computers
<enyc> pleia2: what you must NOT do is create (a) a broken AAAA-pointer (before service ready / consistent ipv6 address /firewall-rule etc working)   and (b) IPv6-enable a host without setting up forward-confirmed reverse-DNS  on the address  (assuming dost requires revers, which is very good practice and CRITICAL for getting emails out especially to gmail)
<knome> pleia2, maybe we should create a new RT ticket and try?
<pleia2> enyc: you're kind of insulting my intelligence at this point, maybe stop?
<enyc> please try, though i wonder if its' best todo after 18.04 'released' ?
<knome> enyc, please, pleia2 doesn't need technical advice. as she describes, this is a social issue
<enyc> pleia2: knome asked about "wasn't sure about enabling some of our resources, but not others" hence giving reasonable answer
<pleia2> as knome explains, this is a social thing, not a technical barrier
<knome> enyc, that refers to what i said; we have root acces to only some resources
<flocculant> enyc: it's extremely doubtful this would even get looked at by the team before 18.04 is released - we've got a distro to release 
<flocculant> I certainly won't have time to think about it
<enyc> flocculant: right yes, hence my point about best todo after 18.04 released
<knome> yes, but even if our team looked at it, it's likely that the canonical IS team will likely not do anything or even reply before release...
<flocculant> they've got a hugh queue I read elsewhere
<enyc> knome: right yes nthat makes snes, so make a project issue/diary/alarm/whatever to choose better time to requset it =)
<enyc> main thing is your project aware of the issue =)
<pleia2> yeah, it's something I've spoken to Canonical about before, and we do have the techincal expertise to address, it just hasn't gotten much attention of late
<enyc> My organizization relevant IS team, simply needed telling about TLS1.0 limit on a key/core authentication system and they quickte quickly tested/fixed it to TLS1.2 enablement,  for example.
<knome> enyc, you could file a bug here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website; no need for the technical details, just mention enabling ipv6
<knome> i wish all IS teams were as responsive as yours then, i guess
<knome> you have to remember they are paid to provide services mostly for other people who are paid
<knome> community like xubuntu is just a thing they do in the side when they have time (not completely true, but it helps understand the situation we're in)
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> that is pretty much the case - just sometimes we manage to make some time
<knome> well i was about to say "or when there is enough pressure to make canonical look bad if they don't do anything" but i didn't want to be that aggressive...
<knome> and tbh, that's not correct either
<knome> there are things that happen very quickly....
<knome> (even when they aren't critical to anybody by any means)
<knome> this is all mostly related to repeating processes though, but still
<knome> at least they've got something fixed :)
<flocculant> :)
<knome> aiui, the IS team is also very overloaded with work
<knome> but enough of that.
<ondondil> I just tested the beta iso instalation process. Would it be helpful if i submit the result here? http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/388/builds/169633/testcases/1301/results
<knome> ondondil, yes, yes and yes!
<knome> (if you don't submit, it's next to useless)
<flocculant> ondondil: you have to - I closed the beta earlier today :)
<knome> oh :P
<knome> it was about versions
 * knome hides
<flocculant> any and all reports of tests are welcome - and I even read the archived ones :)
 * flocculant can still see knome ...
<knome> dang
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> willem: re did you by any chance look at systemctl status system-reboot.service? https://i.imgur.com/mUzRaIv.png
<akxwi-dave> got a weird bug  to post for suspend on lid close for a laptop..  an old core2duo.. just need to check that its not the laptop first
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: there has been talk in here for days about some lid close issue
<flocculant> which has completely passed me by because - no lid ...
<akxwi-dave> aye.. thats why I ran extra tests :-)
<TJ-> akxwi-dave: I'm still working on it
<TJ-> akxwi-dave: is it this? Bug #1759950
<ubottu> bug 1759950 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Lid-close suspend: blank screen when switching to user session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759950
<akxwi-dave> nope this is really weird.. when i open it teh screen is all blue and when I move the mouse it sort of moves another bl;ue screen up and down screen
<akxwi-dave> hang on i'll video it
<TJ-> akxwi-dave: does it happen if you switch away from the GUI tty before closing the lid?
<flocculant> knome: if no-one turns up at meeting it's because the time link was wrong :p
<akxwi-dave> not tried that
<knome> flocculant, haha
<flocculant> I only noticed - because utc and uk summer confuses me till about October :D
<knome> yes...
<flocculant> then time=utc and I'm cool for another 6 months 
<ochosi> !team | reminder: community meeting in roughly 2hrs
<ubottu> reminder: community meeting in roughly 2hrs: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> not sure I'll be functioning still ochosi 
<knome> DST should not be used...
<ochosi> flocculant: anything you wanna mention now so we can carry it to the meeting?
<flocculant> I took both the links I had on there off - both look soon sorted
<ochosi> kewl
<ondondil> okay, so I submitted a passed test result. I'm not entirely sure if I did it right but I hope that helps tho
<flocculant> thank the new testers 
<ochosi> awesome
<pleia2> ondondil: thanks \o/
<akxwi-dave> excellent
<akxwi-dave> o7
<flocculant> ondondil: where did you post it?
<flocculant> and thanks :)
<flocculant> or are you seanmc ?
<ondondil> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/388/builds/169633/testcases/1301/results my nick there is imrahil
<akxwi-dave> where teh best place to post a video?
<flocculant> internet
<flocculant> ondondil: thanks 
<akxwi-dave> lol.. (sod off mate.. ð
<flocculant> :p
<ochosi> akxwi-dave: some ppl use youtube..? :)
<flocculant> I often use streamable.com
<flocculant> ochosi: lol
<akxwi-dave> I cnnt believe I forgot about yourtube
<flocculant> well you also forgot I'd likely say 'internet' ...
<knome> ochosi, some people also use 4chan (:
<akxwi-dave> https://youtu.be/3UcvvfL_2ag
<akxwi-dave> when reopen a second time the bug stops.
<flocculant> I've seen that before
<flocculant> obviously not the youtribe video
<flocculant> never seen The Photon Raiders though
<akxwi-dave> ahhh :-)  old gaming clanm I used to help run
<flocculant> :)
<akxwi-dave> The laptop is a HP Compaq 6730b core2duo P8700 with intel 1625 video
<flocculant> I think laptop isn't necessarily the issue - I've had that on desktop way back
<akxwi-dave> sorry Intel GMA 4500MHD   
<akxwi-dave> ahh
<flocculant> couldn't reproduce though
<flocculant> it used to just happen
<ochosi> bluesabre: i just found another small icon bug that needs fixing for 18.04 - can we do another xubuntu-artwork upload?
<flocculant> we can't keep changing the release note you know :p
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> it's really just a bugfix ;)
<ochosi> (and it's also unreported, so nothing to announce apart from: we have nicer icons!)
 * flocculant changes release note to 'Ochosi just keeps on finding icon issues'
<flocculant> :D
 * flocculant goes looking for elusive elliptical circles
<knome> i didn't know flocculant was so grumpy and against change that he didn't even allow fixes for bugs ;)
<flocculant> :p
<ochosi> hehe
<flocculant> ochosi: sorry - can't stay awake for another 90 minutes - so I will read the logs in the morning.
<ochosi> sure thing
<ochosi> nighty flocculant 
<knome> nighty flocculant 
<flocculant> final beta is likely to be released late 'today' or tomorrow if you want to announce - but frankly I'd rather we didn't advertise milestones - will leave that decision to you
<flocculant> as long as you make the right one :D
<flocculant> quick shout to testers
<knome> would probably make sense to write down some policies on announcement stuff etc.
<flocculant> mmm 
<knome> the release note/announcement differences too
<knome> but... later
<knome> :)
<flocculant> yea that for sure - should be different 
<knome> they have been too
<flocculant> anyway - night all
<flocculant> yea I know :)
<knome> but good to have stuff documented
<knome> ngihty
<knome> and nighty :P
<flocculant> :)
<willem> night
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.7.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-7-2-released-tp50883.html (by Alex)
<krytarik> LP #1685502 has just been reassigned btw.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1761606 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1685502 Two Wi-Fi network applets appear after logging back into live-usb Lubuntu 18.04 session." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761606
<ochosi> !team | final reminder: meeting in <5min
<ubottu> final reminder: meeting in <5min: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<knome> a very brief reminder;)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.6.15 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-6-15-released-tp50885.html (by Alexander Schwinn)
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> Nice timing
<bluesabre> Evening all
<jd109> Hello!
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  5 22:02:39 2018 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> hullo
<bluesabre> hiiii
<pleia2> hello
<ochosi> #chair ochosi knome bluesabre
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre knome ochosi
<ochosi> hi everyone :)
 * bluesabre is wired in at a coffee shop
<bluesabre> hi ochosi
<ochosi> noice
<ochosi> enjoy that coffee!
<knome> bluesabre, a coffee IV?
<bluesabre> Something like that
<ochosi> #topic Open action items
<ochosi> are there any..?
<ochosi> (there aren't on the agenda, but then again)
<knome> not from meetings
<ochosi> some coordination regarding social-media-ing of final beta testing..?
<ochosi> but i presume that has been done
<ochosi> i noticed at least on the things i use
<knome> it's past that time, yes
<ochosi> and this has been a fairly awesome cycle wrt new testers anyway
<knome> i'm pretty sure pleia2 worked hard to get it done because this time i didn't do anything :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> well done pleia2 
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> not that i do anything else than twitter anyway... :P
<pleia2> and thanks to flocculant for reminding me to do the things ;)
<ochosi> good teamwork then (knome doing nothing, flocculant doing the reminding and pleia2 doing all the work)
<pleia2> lol
<bluesabre> lol
<knome> well i didn't step on anybody's toes or tell them they did it wrong...!
<ochosi> anyway, if there are no open action items i'll move along
<knome> ack from me
<bluesabre> carry on
<ochosi> #topic Updates and Announcements
<ochosi> btw, i forgot...
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC
<knome> there you go ;)
<ochosi> who's all here?
<ochosi> jd109: wanna introduce yourself?
<ochosi> or any other new faces?
<jd109> Hi
<jd109> what to say
<knome> (those who haven't typed anything, just make any noise now)
<jd109> How is everyone doing
<jd109> I am one of the wallpaper submitters
<ochosi> ah cool
<bluesabre> Fantastic
<ochosi> submitters or also winners?
<ochosi> (great in any case!)
<jd109> have the winners been announced?
<ochosi> i think so - knome ?
<pleia2> no, but we've reached out to them
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> that's what i meant
<jd109> I have been keeping an eye out
<pleia2> alas, if you haven't heard from us, you are not one of the finalists
<Unit193> WHich one(s) did you submit?
<jd109> lol
<pleia2> but the competition this time was fierce, we've never had so many high quality submissions
<pleia2> it was hard deciding
<bluesabre> Yeah, it was pretty great
<jd109> um quite a few
<jd109> the arch
<jd109> the opera house
<jd109> the flowers in the tea house
<jd109> Pilatus
<knome_web> i hit some lag that might mean i need to use this webclient...
<jd109> and sesto
<jd109> just those 5
<ochosi> alrighty
<jd109> yeah there were lots of good submissions
<ochosi> anyway, thanks for showing up and we're glad if you wanna stick around!
<jd109> thanks
<knome_web> did i miss the #subtopic?
<ochosi> there are lots of ways to contribute - not just wallpapers ;)
<jd109> I agree I have been testing the latest iso too
<ochosi> knome_web: not really, i didn't want to discuss the walls really, just have jd109 introduce himself
<knome_web> aha, goodie :)
<ochosi> that's great
<ochosi> testing helps a lot too
<knome_web> (there i go!)
<ochosi> anyway, let's move the meetnig along a bit
<bluesabre> jd109: the perspective on the arch one is really awesome btw :)
<ochosi> #topic Updates and Announcements
<knome> &n
<knome> not that.
<jd109> thanks!
<knome> but hello from here again...
<bluesabre> hello again knome
<ochosi> #subtopic Wallpaper contest results
<ochosi> knome: you're on
<knome> great!
<knome> so
<knome> since i'm going to post to our blog soon, no spoiling here, but:
<knome> #info We have 6 winning wallpapers from 6 different contestants!
<ochosi> \o/
<knome> #info We're still working with the contestants, but at least 5 of the winning submissions will be included in 4k resolution (woot!)
 * pleia2 has envelopes queued up to send them all stickers
<knome> #info Blog will be updated soon with winners' names and winning submissions :)
<knome> yes, we also have the addresses for all winners so we're good to with our prizes as well!
<ochosi> do we want to make all contributions available somewhere on the website?
<knome> they are already available on the contests website :)
<ochosi> oh crap :D
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> and yes, we will link to that page and for now it shouldn't disappear
 * ochosi should better shut up
<knome> disclaimer: the 4k versions aren't available on the contests page
<ochosi> yeah, that's fine though
<ochosi> as long as they are included in the release
<knome> we'll have to figure out if we want to make them available somewhere apart from the package and its bzr branch
<knome> mostly a question of bandwidth usage i guess
<knome> and finally
<knome> #info A huge thank you everybody for submitting! We had a total of 162 submissions compared to less than 100 last time. We have an awesome (and I hope a growing) community!
<bluesabre> <3
<ochosi> +1000
<jd109> Thanks for running the contest! 
<pleia2> yeah, it was really great
<knome> no problem!
<knome> that's all from me :)
<bluesabre> (thanks to the team for getting your votes in a timely manner too)
<knome> yes
<knome> next time we will make voting easier...
<knome> (even easier than it was now)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> alrighty, perfect
<ochosi> any other topics for updates and announcements..?
<bluesabre> Sure
<knome> f-f-f-freezes
<bluesabre> #subtopic Release Schedule
<Unit193> knome: I kept having to refresh the page for the indicator on each image to refresh after voting yay/nay.
<bluesabre> #info Bionic Final Beta should be landing soon, today/tomorrow
<pleia2> hooray
<bluesabre> #info Translations are due next week
<bluesabre> #info Final Freeze is the 23rd
<knome> there shouldn't be much changed apart from the slideshow?
<bluesabre> #info Final Freeze is the 26th
<knome> i mean at least that will have time to land?
<bluesabre> knome: yeah, will be doing a batch of translation updates this weekend probably
<bluesabre> And bug fixes
<knome> ahha
<bluesabre> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
<bluesabre> #info Final Release is the 26th
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> Contributors, come and get it :)
<bluesabre> That's it for dates
<knome> pleia2, maybe a social media run for making people translate the slideshow?
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> one more
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> #info Release Candidate on the 19th
<pleia2> knome: if we have some very clear instructions as to how to do this, we absolutely should
<ochosi> bluesabre: so i presume we can still get today's thunar release in?
<knome> pleia2, we should be able to make it relatively brief...
<bluesabre> ochosi: pretty sure, yeah
<ochosi> bluesabre: plus i pushed two small icon fixes today that should also go in
<ochosi> (small but not irrelevant)
<bluesabre> ochosi: will take a look and upload sometime in the next 36 hours
<ochosi> awesome, thanks a bunch
<ochosi> anything else regarding the release schedule?
<bluesabre> Nope
<ochosi> k, any other subtopics for "updates and announcements"?
<bluesabre> None from me
<knome> i don't think - yet
<knome> either on the last meeting of the cycle or first after
<knome> :)
<ochosi> Unit193, pleia2 ?
<Unit193> ochosi: Hi!
<pleia2> nothing from me
<ochosi> :]
<knome> or the hiding krytarik 
<pleia2> :D
<Unit193> Well, there's the new thunar we should try and "slip" in.
<Unit193> Oh, numlockx is fixed.
<bluesabre> hooray!
<ochosi> @lurkers: rise from ye dwellings!
<ochosi> noice
<ochosi> alright then
<ochosi> #topic Discussion
<ochosi> #subtopic Icon changes after UIF (ochosi)
<ochosi> so i just briefly wanted to run something by you
<ochosi> there have been a few changes in our icon theme's upstream (elementary) 
<ochosi> they have started to rework the palette
<ochosi> and you can see this already in bionic because i pulled in quite a few reworked icons
<ochosi> now we have e.g. some inconsistent greens
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/ppHvVhK.png
<ochosi> left is new, right is old
<ochosi> i could spend some more time updating these icons to the new green
<ochosi> but we're past UIF
<ochosi> so the main question is: does this qualify as bugfix?
<knome> meh
<ochosi> or: would you even care enough for me to do the work and for us to push this?
<bluesabre> I'd say... not really a bugfix. But the purpose of the freezes is to make sure we're not crunched for time with replacing screenshots and the like
<knome> i don't think it's a bugfix, but i don't think the UIFe paperwork or getting the ack is too much work if we want this in
<knome> on another note: will this rework finish before the release?
<ochosi> well we're already in this semi-consistent state
<knome> or in other words, will we release with all-consistent icons even with the UIFe paperwork and uploading thingy?
<ochosi> so there's really not much to lose
<ochosi> hard to say, it's a lot of icons
<knome> and to go even further: do we want to release an SRU?
<ochosi> even if the work is repetitious and anyone could help, i doubt anybody apart from me will contribute
<bluesabre> That's the nature of these things :)
<ochosi> as we dont use the icons in screenshots in our docs i consider an SRU absolutely doable
<ochosi> bluesabre: the nature of icon updates is that i have to work on them alone..? :D
<bluesabre> What sort of work load is involved? Surely it's more than search & replace?
<ochosi> well i have to open every icon and add a new gradient, replacing the old one
<ochosi> i doubt the svgs are consistent enough to be able to script this
<knome> i didn't mean the SRU would be not doable even if we had screenshots or that
<ochosi> most of them are in the actions/ subfolders though
<ali1234> i would be willing to have a go at scripting if you can explain what needs to be done
<knome> the question is if we think that getting this consistency is important enough for an SRU on itself
<ochosi> (and i already fixed a lot of icons already)
<ochosi> ali1234: that'd be awesome!
<knome> because the SRU process is a different beast than an UIFe
<bluesabre> Yeah
<knome> and that said...
<ochosi> knome: i know, my main target would be UIFe
<knome> if we think we will be doing an SRU, then don't sweat on the UIFe's now
<knome> but if we think we can get it all in by release, then for sure i vote for some more sweat for ochosi - and can do the UIFe paperwork
<bluesabre> I think it'd be a nice to have.
<ochosi> right
<bluesabre> The difference isn't drastic, but any additional polish we can have is welcome
<knome> definitely - we're kind of in a state where i'd rather go all way than leave the inconsistency there
<bluesabre> If we enter SRU territory, it gets painful
<ochosi> (so the two current commits are in fact fixes of icons that were broken - we should get those in anyway)
<knome> bluesabre, i vote for more polish only for the polish speaking users!
<ochosi> ok, so then i propose the following:
<ochosi> 1) bluesabre uploads the two commits that are bugfix as bugfix
<ochosi> 2) ochosi tries the scripted approach with ali1234 
<ochosi> 3) if 2) fails ochosi tries to update the icons manually (as many as possible)
<ochosi> 4) knome does the paperwork for UIFe
<jd109> can I make a suggestion
<ochosi> sure
<jd109> if It is not stepping on toes
<bluesabre> :)
<ali1234> how many icons are we talking about, approximately?
<jd109> how about switch the greens on the new icons 
<knome> ochosi, ack from me on that proposal
<jd109> back to be consistent with all the others
<jd109> it would be much less work
<ochosi> jd109: not really, the new greens outnumber the old ones by far
<jd109> oh okay
<jd109> :-(
<ochosi> ali1234: hmm, maybe 50?
<knome> (and even if not, then we would be "outdated" for two years until the next LTS)
<ali1234> 50 x 8 different sizes each or 50 total?
<knome> pretty sure Ã
<ochosi> 50 total
<bluesabre> oh wow
<knome> really?
<ochosi> x8 would include the symlinks
<bluesabre> Seems obvious
<bluesabre> Let's go for it :D
<ochosi> hey - i've done a lot of work already!
<ali1234> i guess svg doesn't have different sizes
<ochosi> :)
<knome> yes indeed, let's go for it
<ochosi> >900 icon updates in this cycle
<bluesabre> with just one ochosi... we need more ochosis to be more productive
<knome> ochosi, now the proposal with #action and we're good to go ;)
<ochosi> just one more follow-up question
<ochosi> i can also clear out some other inconsistencies
<knome> like?
<ochosi> where icons look very different in different sizes
<ochosi> e.g. MS excel files look totally different in 128px
<knome> if the changes are trivial (eg. don't take a huge amount of time), go for it
<knome> we can bunch this all up as an "consistency" update
<ochosi> 128px: http://i.imgur.com/a01oBEf.png
<ochosi> 64px and below: http://i.imgur.com/gPuWqVn.png
<knome> hah, yes
<ochosi> that's really confusing and misleading
<ochosi> i just noticed it a short while ago
<knome> indeed
<ochosi> (i obviously don't work with office files "enough")
<knome> yes, i'm all for fixing this as well while we are at it
<bluesabre> hence your sanity
<ochosi> lol
<bluesabre> I agree
<bluesabre> One nice UIFe bug to cover it all
<knome> yep
<ochosi> #action bluesabre will push beaaf3f6f47fb1e80fb7821fe69b3513a707cfbe and 28120d05e011ec89412d33d7dc5897d7f6bcf8ee from elementary-xfce to xubuntu-artwork as bugfix
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre will push beaaf3f6f47fb1e80fb7821fe69b3513a707cfbe and 28120d05e011ec89412d33d7dc5897d7f6bcf8ee from elementary-xfce to xubuntu-artwork as bugfix
<knome> and not even by a stretch, it really is one thing
 * bluesabre is prepared
<ochosi> #action ochosi and ali1234 will try to script the gradient swap-out for most icons that need updating
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi and ali1234 will try to script the gradient swap-out for most icons that need updating
<ochosi> #action ochosi will manually update whatever icons are left over from the script approach
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi will manually update whatever icons are left over from the script approach
<ochosi> #action knome will file the UIFe paperwork once the branch is ready
<meetingology> ACTION: knome will file the UIFe paperwork once the branch is ready
<ochosi> #action bluesabre will again be doing the uploading honours
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre will again be doing the uploading honours
<knome> i'm filing the bug now that it's ready for subbing appropriate teams to it
<ochosi> what's the latest point in time for getting the UIFe approved?
<bluesabre> Lots of xubuntu-artwork uploads in the next few days :)
<knome> ochosi, as long as it happens before the release...
<ochosi> yeah, but how many days before
<ochosi> i can't remember what was a realistic window
<knome> i think we don't want to go into the final freeze territory
<bluesabre> ochosi: RC is the 19th, archive probably locked at that point
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> so i have roughly 10 days
<ochosi> sounds do-able
<ochosi> thanks, we can move on to other discussion items (if there are any)
 * bluesabre believes in ochosi
<knome> yes, i have one
<ochosi> k go ahead
<bluesabre> I need to relocate, bbiab
<knome> #topic Discussion
<knome> #subtopic 18.04 Community Wallpaper Contest Winners
<knome> https://xubuntu.org/news/18-04-community-wallpaper-contest-winners/
<knome> done :)
<ochosi> noice
<ochosi> well done
<jd109> Nice!
<ochosi> any other discussion items?
<knome> not from me
<ochosi> (we're slowly but surely running out of meeting time)
<ochosi> ok, if not...
<ochosi> #topic Schedule next meeting
<ochosi> #action Unit193 to schedule the next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to schedule the next meeting
<knome> iiiiit's Uniiiiiiiit193!
<pleia2> thanks for chairing, ochosi 
<ochosi> weeeee
<bluesabre> back
<ochosi> thanks everyone for participating
<ochosi> hah, right in time for the wrap-up, bluesabre 
<knome> thank you ochosi 
<jd109> thanks!
<ochosi> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  5 22:56:59 2018 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2018/xubuntu-devel.2018-04-05-22.02.moin.txt
<bluesabre> Thanks everybody!
<Unit193> Dang, I'm awful at those.
<bluesabre> Thanks Unit193!
<bluesabre> :D
<pleia2> knome: shall I social media the wallpaper post?
<Unit193> What'd I do?
<knome> pleia2, yes please
<knome> bug 1761623
<ubottu> bug 1761623 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Fix inconsistencies in the elementary-xfce icon theme" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761623
<knome> so that's there, ready for the process to roll
<bluesabre> Very nice
<bluesabre> Guess I have some work to do when I get home :)
<knome> :)
<Unit193> Testbuilt thunar.
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> kewl
<ochosi> ali1234: for the scripting, shall i start to describe the manual process..?
<ali1234> okay so what am i looking at? i cloned elementary-xfce repo
<ochosi> ok, navigate to elementary-xfce/actions/24
<ali1234> back.svg, bottom.svg look like the old green?
<ochosi> open edit-redo.svg, take the gradient from there and apply to go-bottom, go-down, ...
<ochosi> take the green from the path (the outline of the arrow from edit-redo.svg) and apply that too
<pleia2> knome: how do we get the wallpaper winners blog post to the front of xubuntu.org ?
<knome> oh
<ali1234> okay. so this is just purely a colour change right?
<knome> pleia2, there we go
<pleia2> ty
<knome> np
<knome> the answer: make sure the post is in the "Articles" category
<ochosi> ali1234: yes
<pleia2> good to know :)
<ali1234> ochosi: can you show me a git commit where you've done this?
<ochosi> ali1234: that's why it could be scriptable
<ochosi> sure, one sec
<knome> pleia2, updated the excerpt to a hand-tailored one
 * pleia2 thumbs up
<ochosi> ali1234: unfortunately the one i did manually and that would be a good example is part of a bigger commit: https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/commit/b85a1d068836f07accd7c4b1605720581ba0b041#diff-a3092494930a2366b914d2f431145af7
<ochosi> look for 16/dialog-ok-apply.svg
<ali1234> okay, i'm a bit puzzled by this
<ali1234> what happened to xlink:href="#linearGradient2264"
<ali1234> is that still in the file?
<knome> i don't think that has any meaning
<knome> see how the nodes refer to the id(2427) later
<ochosi> ali1234: i think not, there are oftentimes lots of unused gradients in svgs
<ochosi> would need to run the vacuum script more often...
<knome> ochosi, this isn't even an unused gradient
<ochosi> (or simply as a pre-commit hook or something)
<knome> i think this is an inkscape-internal (?) link/id
<knome> which isn't referred to from anywhere
<ali1234> okay so the old gradient has only two stops, the new one has four, is that right?
<knome> actually the xlink:href is referred from the other linearGradient element...
<knome> and there that 2264 is too when you expand the code
 * knome facepalms
<knome> handling different amount of steps can be a bit tricky :)
<ali1234> the stroke is different colour too?
<knome> that's likely
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> so the transition that is probably hard is the steps
<ochosi> and then the path/stroke also needs to be changed
<knome> ochosi, do you know if the steps/offset is always the same though?
<ochosi> between icons of the new gradient you mean?
<ochosi> tbh for the icons i'm interested in the steps would always be the same
<knome> yes
<ochosi> if it helps with the script, i can manually fix one single arrow icon
<ochosi> then you have something to go on
<ali1234> do you know the exact colours before and after?
<ali1234> or is it a case of "move the sliders until it looks right"
<ochosi> no, this should be consistent across icons
<ochosi> so we should be able to derive the colors before and after from a single example
<ali1234> some of these svgs have like 15 copies of the original gradient
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i know
<knome> could we create a simple script that runs inkscape without the GUI and vacuums?
<ochosi> that's why i said, vacuuming
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> and repeat that on alllllll the icons
<ochosi> those scripts already exist
<knome> that would likely help
<knome> i'm sure
<knome> and it's a oneliner most likely so not an issue
<knome> just figure out the inkscape parameter
<ali1234> found on google: for f in *.svg; do inkscape --file="$f" --verb="FileVacuum" --verb="FileSave" --verb="FileQuit"; done
<knome> oh lewl?
<knome> output from "inkscape --help" is funny
<bluesabre> google master
<ali1234> oh there is a --vacuum-defs parameter
<knome> ali1234, that sounds like a lot better than that verb crap
<knome> https://temp.knome.fi/other/inkscape-cli-help.png
<knome> i'd say it would be more useful if it was the *other* column with more width
<knome> can't always win
<knome> (or be helpful)
<ali1234> mine looks different
<ali1234> anyway...
<knome> interesting..
<ochosi> https://github.com/elementary/icons/blob/master/pre-commit
<ochosi> that's most likely what we want
<knome> looks fantastic :)
<ali1234> don't need -z and --export-plain according to the manual page
<knome> automatic stuff ftw
<ali1234> it's assumed no gui and in place if you just say --vacuum-defs $file
<knome> right, but --export-plain removes all the sodipodi and inkscape namespaced nodes
<ali1234> ah okay
<knome> plain SVG vs. inkscape SVG
<ali1234> yeah that would probably be a good idea
<ochosi> i think i never vacuumed the theme because it gets converted to png anyway...
<knome> former is smaller in size as well as easier to read
<ali1234> gonna be one huge commit if you vacuum the whole thing :)
<knome> sure :)
<ochosi> i know
<ochosi> feel free to propose a pullrequest for that one
<ochosi> i gotta get some sleep now
<knome> nighty ochosi :)
<bluesabre> nighty ochosi
<ali1234> export-plain really messes around with the files
<knome> yes
<knome> i think it would probably be ideal to have a quick visual look at the files after doing that...
<ali1234> running it now. i have a feeling it will take quite some time
<knome> actually if you believe the inkscape wiki, no visual changes are made
<knome> but somehow this is so fishy;)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> lossless-ish
<ali1234> it is re-ordering the attributes on nodes, causing diff inflation
<knome> like "i'll change 75% of your file, but don't worry, it's the exact same thing!"
<ali1234> but not much in the way of real changes
<ochosi> nighty!
<ali1234>  3859 files changed, 439255 insertions(+), 986530 deletions(-)
<Unit193> Welp.
<bluesabre> :|
<ali1234> trying just vacuum now
<knome> i'm off to bed as well
<knome> nighty and thanks for looking at this (too) ali1234 :)
<bluesabre> nighty cnoma
<bluesabre> :)
<ali1234> night
<ali1234> ... and just using vacuum defs ends up adding more cruft than it removes
<ali1234> the diff is still significantly smaller though
<ali1234>  3829 files changed, 49015 insertions(+), 466754 deletions(-)
<bluesabre> Both are effectively rewrites. If we're considering using that upstream git hook, might as well go for the full vacuum
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-06
<bluesabre> Smaller future diffs that way
<ali1234> after the vacuum there are 114 instances of the target colour
<ali1234> some files still have multiple copies :(
<ali1234> ah, some of this are not the same gradient at all
<ali1234> this should be a list of every svg which has a linear gradient with exactly two stops, and both of those stops are #d7e866 or #8cab2a
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/9gqZH9dJ3Z/
<bluesabre> All the arrows are there, so that's a good sign
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://salsa.debian.org/dbnpolicy/policy/blob/master/policy/upgrading-checklist.rst#version-4-1-4
<ochosi> ali1234: have you pushed your vacuumed stuff anywhere?
<ochosi> if you want to, i can take a look and review later
<jarnos> Hello, how can you change keyboard layout, when booting 18.04 ISO? In 14.04 
<ali1234> ochosi: pushed to https://github.com/ali1234/elementary-xfce
<ali1234> vacuum-defs and export-plain branches
<ochosi> ali1234: any recommendations/feedback on the two branches..? shall i just "take a look" to see if i spot diffs? :p
<ochosi> also, is it easier with either of the two branches to script the color-change?
<ali1234> export-plain cleans out more stuff
<ochosi> (without the latter benefit i think i'd postpone the vacuum stuff for post 18.04)
<ali1234> it probably isn't any easier
<knome> otoh, the package would then be "clean"
<ochosi> knome: the package contains only pngs
<ochosi> the git repo would be clean/er
<ochosi> we convert and optipng everything anyway
<ochosi> also because it's way faster than using svg-based themes
<ali1234> where's the script to build pngs?
<knome> ochosi, right
<knome> ochosi, so why wait then?
<ali1234> found it
<ali1234> both of the branches produce byte-identical png files
<ali1234> tested with http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/f2NtDMt6rP/
<ali1234> all three directories are identical according to diff -Nur
<bluesabre> Neat
<flocculant> afternoon 
<ochosi> ali1234: wanna file a PR on github? i'll go ahead and merge then and then we can continue considering a scripted conversion
<ochosi> frankly even just adding the gradient to every file would help because thats otherwise a manual process
<ochosi> so that would save me a lot of time
<ochosi> and the old gradient would be kicked out by vacuuming anyway
<ochosi> knome: i wanted to wait because i didnt want to have to manually check the output after the vacuuming. but if the png output is the same then that's not necessary anyway
<willem> hi all, in testcases I'm asked to start "thunar". But in Xubuntu, in the whiskermenu, typing "thu..." thunar does not show up. I got in contact with the whiskermenu maintainer (https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14326); he's looked into it, and now thinks it is something that should be reported at Xubuntu. I don't know against which package I need to report this issue; could anyone give me a pointer?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14326 in General "Thunar should show up by name, if user searches the app by typing in 'thunar' in whiskermenu" [Normal,Resolved: wontfix]
<flocculant> that's really a testcase issue
<flocculant> well - kind of - the reason you found it is at least, bluesabre ^^
<willem> hmm, I don't know: when I open whisker and start typing "fire..." 
<willem> ... yes, indeed, I found it thanks to a testcas
<willem> but thunar should pop up if I start typing its name in whisker I think
<flocculant> possibly a .desktop file
<willem> I'd be happy to report this on launchpad, but I don't know against which package.
<flocculant> we'll let sean see the ping first
<willem> let's
<ali1234> ochosi:  okay but which?
<ali1234> i'm rerunning the vacuum now cos you added stuff...
<ochosi> ali1234: if both produce bit-identical png output i'd go with the more stripped down version
<ali1234> okay
<ochosi> or with whatever elementary use, as its 'proven in use'
<ali1234> same
<ochosi> thought so
<ali1234> i just hope it doesn't re-order all the attribs every time you run it
<ali1234> that's possible if it uses unordered dicts
<ali1234> or hash tables or whatever
<ochosi> i'll add a local pre-commit hook
<ochosi> so it'll happen automatically for all new/edited files
<ochosi> i'm also considering to add a makefile that runs the svgtopng converter and then installs the icon theme
<ochosi> for people who dont use the package or xubuntu as a wholr
<ali1234> just going to run export-plain again on the previous output to check it doesn't change anything
<ali1234> if it doesn't then i'm happy
<ali1234> okay bad news
<ali1234> export-plain shuffles the order of attributes every time you run it
<ali1234> meaning every time you run it on a file, the entire file changes, even if you didn't change anything at all
<ali1234> i will try a newer inkscape
<ali1234> getting somewhere
<ali1234> inkscape doesn't randomize the attributes, it always reverses their order
<ali1234> so running it twice will cancel out the effect :)
<flocculant> evening you two
<ali1234> okay, megapatch incoming
<ali1234> just need to run the png diff one more time
<ali1234> passed :)
<ali1234> PR sent
<pleia2> all the sticker+note letters are ready to be sent out to our wallpaper winners \o/
<pleia2> didn't do anything formal, but I did include a quick hand-written thank you
<ochosi> ali1234: awesome, thanks! will review/merge later
<ochosi> pleia: nice work!
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks for doing that stuff
<pleia2> np
<flocculant> bluesabre: you might want to be aware of bug 1761593
<ubottu> bug 1761593 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Uninstall left nouveau blacklisted" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761593
<flocculant> can't remember if you commented here about that 
<flocculant> at the time it would have been against nvidia
<Unit193> Thunar was accepted, of course.
<ochosi> sweet
<ochosi> ali1234: what a homungous commit :p
<ali1234> it's 60% smaller than the previous version...
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> you still pushed yourself to #9 of the contributor list with this one commit :D
<ochosi> and you have more deleted lines than me now
<ochosi> so would you suggest to just run the whole inkscape command twice as pre-commit hook?
<ali1234> it's the simplest thing to do
<ali1234> the alternative is to use a totally different tool
<ali1234> or try to get inkscape fixed
<ali1234> since we're working to a deadline i'd say go with the simplest workaround for now
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> i mean the pre-commit hook is not *essential* for getting the arrows fixed
<ali1234> agreed
<ali1234> changing to a different tool could mean another monster commit
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i would stick to just "doing it twice"
<ali1234> it's not that slow unless you are doing the whole file
<ali1234> the whole repo i mean
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i usually change not more than 10 icons per commit
<ali1234> ou probably saw i sent an upstream bug report. probably best to just see what they do and copy it :)
<ochosi> yup, true that :)
<ochosi> knome: i would love for inkscape to throw a readable warning when things like "union" don't work...
<ochosi> knome: also, this is a direction that elementary is considering currently (not really decided at all yet though) https://github.com/elementary/icons/blob/26fed9053f2731351f36fa1aebcc7f248012b0a0/places/128/folder-documents.svg
<ochosi> ali1234: how do we best continue regarding the scripting? shall i convert a single arrow now manually as a sample so we see if it's doable?
<ali1234> that would help actually
<ali1234> i'm going to do it partially by hand
<ochosi> craaaaap
<ochosi> there's more to it than the gradient and stroke :(
<ochosi> at least if i wanna do it properly
<ochosi> ali1234: https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/commit/960ff154294826a96e3653d8c98fd19ba46b62f4
<ochosi> these are the changes that need to be done
<ochosi> craaap, should've pulled before i did the changes to clean up the diff
<ali1234> well i can substitute all the linear gradients
<ali1234> there's a whole new path in there?
<ochosi> this is the rebased commit: https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/commit/7ef5bd97c92c7eb2399d1281524c08cc99bec180
<ochosi> yeah, there is a "new" path
<ochosi> the arrow is one path in the old icon
<ochosi> fill + stroke
<ochosi> for the new style, they have to be separated into two objects
<ali1234> the one i looked at was already two parts
<ochosi> so that the stroke can be 50% opacity and overlaying the fill
<ali1234> hmm
<ochosi> yeah, i just cleaned up the diff a little
<ochosi> so it's more readable
<ali1234> no i mean yesterday
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> hm
<ali1234> i'll do all the gradients and then we can look at what's left
<ochosi> maybe not all of those arrows are consistnt
<ochosi> awesome
<ochosi> thanks a bunch for helping on this!
<ochosi> gotta get some sleep now...
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-07
<GridCube> reporting that upgrading on desktop from lts 16.04 worked correctly
<GridCube> i got some warnings of smbd failing at boot but nothing else seems wrong
<flocculant> ali1234: while I'm quite likely to believe what you say - and did so re fontconfig, I do like to see the proof of the pudding ... just rebuilt our iso and booted it in vm - back to normal times there (and on first boot post-install)
<flocculant> thanks :)
<flocculant> also I noticed that the remove media message cam up quicker
<flocculant> s/cam/came
<Unit193> So I should rebuild Core?
<flocculant> Unit193: well - not sure what state that was in tbh
<Unit193> 'Tis fine.
<flocculant> do we actually have an xfce package dealing multimedia keys?
<flocculant> if anyone else is awake :p
<Unit193> xfce4-volumed was the old one, xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin new.
<flocculant> Unit193: ta
<flocculant> got someone in #u+1 with them now not working - but also installed plasma desktop recently 
<vabi> Hello, I've read You need some 18.04 testers. How can I help?
<flocculant> vabi: hi
<flocculant> depends, a few ways you can help
<flocculant> 1 - test the daily with usb's
<flocculant> 2 - test with a vm
<flocculant> 3 - dual boot 18.04 with what you use now
<flocculant> 4 - bravely run 18.04 as your main os 
<vabi> 4 is really tempting :D I have old c2d laptop I use daily.
<flocculant> vabi: this is the log from a session I ran a while back that might help too https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2017/05/12/%23xubuntu-devel.html
<flocculant> vabi: that would be awesome - especially testing suspend and power management on it
<vabi> Ok, I'll do that this weekend. If I use test 18.04 build will it be able to update it to normal 18.04 release later?
<flocculant> vabi: yep - keep it updated 
<vabi> Nice, i'll read that log then, and install nightly.
<flocculant> vabi - excellent - keep us posted
<flocculant> willem: re testing and information for new people. We currently have https://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa and https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa.html
<flocculant> is one too little and the other too much?
<flocculant> if so I'm thinking we might want something else - and if that was the case - would you help get that written?
<willem> flocculant, Thank you for asking me. :-) I'll have look later and will be happy to help. Must dash.
<flocculant> ochosi: can you remember if this was fixed? https://streamable.com/sqjbt
<flocculant> I thought it was
<leigh> Hi, I have installed 18.04 and am using it (posted on users mailing list) I need help to learn how I can help please
<flocculant> leigh: hi - glad to see you :)
<leigh> Thanks
<flocculant> two people coming by in one day \o/
<leigh> Its the start of a trend perhaps
<leigh> Like I said, I really need a dummies guide to testing, or even to know what someone like me can actually do
<flocculant> that would be absolutely brilliant ;)
<flocculant> currently we're in between the final beta release and the release candidate stage so effectively what you can do is use 18.04 - you've got it installed
<flocculant> then raise issues as you see them - might be bugs, might not be, might even be something we can't fix ourselves
<leigh> yup and more or less using it as my main now (although 16.04 is also installed
<leigh> Do I raise issues as per here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Reporting_non-crash_hardware_and_desktop_application_bugs
<leigh> ?
<flocculant> that would be good 
<flocculant> for anything that we have control over - we get mails from lp
<flocculant> leigh: if you're willing to be another guinea pig for me that would help us and also likely people not sure if they can help test
<leigh> ok. A couple of times I have has something go wrong, then I press alt F2 and ubuntu-bug and put in app
<leigh> then I get to see if its an existing bug or put in a new one
<flocculant> yea - or you can open a terminal and do the same thing
<flocculant> and yea that's effectively it 
<leigh> My problem is most of the language I see in the current bugs makes no sense to me so I'm not sure if I should open new bug or not
<leigh> so I bail out
<leigh> chicken!
<flocculant> ha :)
<flocculant> well - I would rather see a duplicate - I can link them together - than no report at all :)
<leigh> so best to just open a new bug if I'm not sure?
<flocculant> yea 
<leigh> ok
<flocculant> quick point
<flocculant> in the dialogue that opos up shortly after you run ubuntu-bug - if you page down through the stuff you're not sure of - when it is a duplicate you will see it written there
<leigh> also, sometimes I have no idea what the responsible app was (if its a general 'something went wrong')
<leigh> OK, thanks
<flocculant> leigh: right - well in those cases it should give you a 'this <package> crashed - do you want to report it' dialogue (iirc)
<leigh> Ok
<flocculant> we do have some docs - and tbh I'm not too sure if they are at the right level for new people
<leigh> I will go ahead and be less of a wimp and learn as I go then
<flocculant> if you've got some time over the next few days to look at them and let me know - that would be invaluable for me
<flocculant> and just to make 1 point - you don't need to be able to code to help us here 
<leigh> To be honest most of what I have read is not very easy for newcomers, and that includes all Linux :)
<leigh> Yup, I have gathered that
<flocculant> https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa.html
<flocculant> have you seen that?
<flocculant> if so then you've answered my question :D
<leigh> I think the main prob is that it is assumed that everyone already understands the basic way in which community contributions work. But I need to read through properly first.
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> if you can find a bit fo time to read it - that'd be great - if you want you can e-mail me (you've seen mail from me on the list) 
<leigh> OK, I'll read through and see if I can make any suggestions
<flocculant> I'm beginning to think that we need something between that ^^ and https://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa
<flocculant> I'm wandering off for a bit - actually got some niceish weather here atm 
<leigh> peeing down in Lisboa :)
<flocculant> :)
<leigh> Just a last point - how do you get to those links on the webpage (where in menus)as I havent seen them I dont think
<flocculant> that last link is in Development drop down through Get Involved
<flocculant> the long winded contributor docs is linked at the Dev Area
<flocculant> leigh: you live in Lisbon?
<leigh> Yup, have done on and off since '96
<leigh> but I'm an N Essex / Suffolk boy at heart
<flocculant> one of the Xubuntu team, slickymaster, lives in Portugal, Porto I think
<flocculant> leigh: between Southampton and Bournemouth me - getting close to offtopic now :p
<leigh> sorry. not used to this
<leigh> and I talk too much
<leigh> Porto is quite a way north
<flocculant> ha ha - no problem 
<leigh> I will look at stuff and try to make suggestions
<flocculant> anyway - great to see you in here - but must dash while it's dry out :)
<flocculant> see you again I hope :)
<leigh> have fun
<willem> Hi, leigh, I'm new to the Xubuntu community as well, and am trying to contribute by testing.
<willem> Perhaps we could share the "stumble-blocks" for new comers like us, and then use that to make some changes to 
<willem> https://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa
<willem> and https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa.html
<willem> so that other new comers may feel less overwhelmed? 
<leigh1> Hi Willem, that would be a good idea. Currently I am trying to work out how to use IRC  with Pidgin :)
<leigh1> I think what Flocculant said is correct - there is a big gulf between those two pages above
<willem> Ah, well, I cant help you with pidgin, but the people here suggested I use hexchat. That's what I've been using since
<leigh> I will work it out - nearly there. Then I'll read a bit more and get back with some suggestions
<willem> Perhaps we can figure out which terms in those pages need explaining, or what knowledge the authors assumed the readers have but which we in fact do/did not have...
<willem> (BTW: English is not my own language, so please tell me if I am unclear or even incomprehensible...:-)
<leigh> Sounds like a good plan. Or even a preceding page summarizing simply the documentation pages? Your English is excellent. I have lived in Germany and now live in Portugal, so I know all about not speaking in my mother language, don't worry!
<willem> Thanks. I speak German as well if you like ;-)
<willem> I was also thinking about something "preceding" as you suggest. What I was thinking was that a flow chart of sorts might be helpful? Asking basic yes-no-questions to the reader to decide how he/she might be able to help according to how much time/knowledge/experience/hardware they have?
<willem> And from there to branch of to the more detailed information?
<willem> Well, just some wild ideas--- :-)
<willem> (nice to meet you btw :-)
<flocculant> hi willem - I see you've met leigh :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: ^^ the last hourish 
<flocculant> I was tentatively thinking while out that what might be a useful thing from my point of view would be the things people find hardest - then we can work from that point
<flocculant> what I would ideally like to have is a resource to point people at early in the next cycle (May)
<flocculant> toddles of again
<willem> flocculant, I have. I think someone should tell hi about IRC-bouncers, don't you think?
 * willem needs to go and find the kitchen to make some food for the family. biab.
<leigh> gibt's shon 10 jahre seit ich Deutch gesprochen habe! There, now you can have no worries about your English :) 
<leigh> I am in academia, writing papers for scientific journals. I would naturally approach it in the same way - perhaps first agree on a skeleton structure before filling in the details? My problem is that at the moment I don't really know much about the subject matter - I have to do some reading first then I can make some suggestions. Great to meet you too!
<GridCube> after the dist-upgrade im having a visual bug on firefox, all the menus look different from the menus on other applications and the cursor doesnt highlight the option being hovered https://imgur.com/a/DHJbs
<willem> leigh1, well, you start reading then ;-) I'll do the same. Auch fÃ¼r mich gilt das ich mehr als zwanzig Jahre eigentlich kein richtiges Deutsch gesprochen habe. Wir sprechen lieber English... :-)
<GridCube> also this looks weird https://i.imgur.com/LUeOlE9.png all buttons and toggles are invisible
<GridCube> Changing the theme seems to fix the problem so I'm assuming the problem is with greybird https://i.imgur.com/Ue72jd0.png
<GridCube> bug #1762026
<ubottu> bug 1762026 in greybird-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "greybird menus and buttons don't rend properly after LTS upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762026
<Leigh_on_sea> I had a problem with IRC that I think was because leigh was already registered, now I have changed to this one, and will stick with it.
<Leigh_on_sea> Actually my computer just turned completely off as I was writing here. I roughly know what apps were also open at the time (Grsync, lollipop and Firefox) but don't know which if any was responsible. how do I report that?
<GridCube> no idea
<willem> Leigh_on_sea, in cases like that I have sometimes found some information in log files. But log files tend to be very technical.
<willem> But I'm no expert, really
<ali1234> ochosi: i made a tool to quickly review icon changes: https://github.com/ali1234/icondiff
<flocculant> bluesabre: fixed my no network post suspend btw https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1760073/comments/28
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1760073 in linux (Ubuntu) "No network from suspend resume" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> GridCube: if you used gtk-theme-config before then yes, the upgrade will mean breakage. you have to reset the theme via gtk-theme-config to fix it
<ochosi> in general there is no such bug in greybird itself
<ochosi> flocculant: not sure if that was ever fixed or even is fixable
<GridCube> ochosi, sorry I don't understand, i don't think i've ever edited gtk-theme-config
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - must have misunderstood and I suspect I don't notice as panel on bottom
<ochosi> ali1234: that looks awesome (only could take a look at the code so far) - will test when i'm home!
<ochosi> GridCube: i thought i saw gtk-theme-config in one of your screenshots
<GridCube> yes as an example of how the theme is broken
<GridCube> i didn't touch anything on it
<ochosi> k, sry, that was a misunderstanding then
<GridCube> :)
<ochosi> not sure how an upgrade would break the theme like that
<ochosi> could you apt reinstall it?
<GridCube> i don't know
<GridCube> sure
<ochosi> or check if you have something in your home folder
<ochosi> like .themes
<ochosi> that would also override/break the theme
<ochosi> flocculant: just looks like some signal mess with hover, maybe its fixed with the gtk3 panel already
<GridCube> i tried to locate .themes and i don't have any folder by that name
<ochosi> theres also another in .local/share/themes i think
<flocculant> ochosi: could be - never had luck with gtk3 panel and it's too late to start now :p
<ochosi> last resort would be to use the guest acxount for testing
<ochosi> flocculant: rly? it should work the same (and even better in some respects)
<flocculant> I had issues intalling it if I remember correctly 
<ochosi> hmright
<flocculant> but no biggy this close to release anyway :)
<ochosi> yeah you need some autogen options to get the paths right
<ochosi> we should package it anyway
<flocculant> I think that sounds about right
<GridCube> reinstalling greybird-gtk-theme did nothing
<flocculant> ochosi: beginning of May I'll be thinking about ppa's again so will talk then 
<ochosi> sure sure
<ochosi> no rush
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> anyway off now - dad taxi
<flocculant> the future for ochosi :p
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> very true
<ochosi> off now too
<ochosi> hf
<flocculant> also - new blood turned up today for testing \o/
<flocculant> 2 new bloods
<TJ-> Has anyone noticed that on resume from suspend input focus doesn't return to the application with focus? On 3 PCs here I have to minimize/restore to cure it
<flocculant> TJ-: let me test that here 
<TJ-> I first noticed typing wasn't being accepted into the terminal (which had focus when suspended). Clicked with the mouse inside the terminal window but it didn't get focus. Had to minimise/restore. Noticed this also affects the taskbar/whisker icon sometimes unless I do Ctrl+Esc
<flocculant> TJ-: can confirm that in a terminal
<flocculant> firefox worked - sort of
<flocculant> bluesabre: false alarm on the fixed net after suspend :(
<flocculant> though why something would work once then not ...
<GridCube> http://i.imgur.com/mksbBw4.png
<GridCube> did an update/upgrade and reboot
<flocculant> yea read the backlog
<GridCube> and now the firefox and other menus show correctly, but the buttons here are huuuge
<flocculant> TJ-: ctrl+esc is the default whisker shortcut
<TJ-> right, that's the only way to get to it though, mouse click wouldn't open the menu immediately after resume
<TJ-> I've also seen 2 instances where there was no mouse pointer movement; something is capturing input focus and not releasing it. I suspect light-locker once again, because it does grab those on lock/suspend
<flocculant> TJ-: have you tried the obvious here? purge light-locker (possibly install xscreensaver) and see then?
<flocculant> light-locker gives us trouble quite frequently as does lightdm
<flocculant> especially, it seems, just before lts release date ...
<TJ-> Disabling it seems to cure most issues, but this one is so random I don't know if light-locker being disabled will avoid it. 
<flocculant> mmm - random doesn't help of course
<TJ-> Can't remove light-locker since this is happening whilst I'm debugging the lid-close suspend light-locker
<TJ-> I think I'm seeing it because I'm doing so many suspend/resume cycles
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I know if I'm a bit quick when testing that I end up with 2 password requests
<TJ-> I've not had that so far
<flocculant> I could replicate it till the cows come home pretty much
<flocculant> willem: I forgot I made this https://wiki.xubuntu.org/qa/isotesting
<TJ-> do the /var/log/lightdm/*.log files show it happening (the greeter logs maybe)? does it show up as 2 authentications in /var/log/auth.log ?
<flocculant> willem: also the irc log from the new testers session I ran is on the wiki - which could well be a simple start to what we were talking about
<flocculant> TJ-: not sure tbh
<flocculant> well this is bizarre copy/paste not working
<flocculant> TJ-: appears to be 2 authentications for wolf here, this should be all of lightdm.log post suspend https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/dDdRKcvJHk/
<TJ-> I wonder if there is anything in $HOME/.xsession-errors that correlates with the time period [+1083.15s] ->  [+1087.47s]
<TJ-> looks like spends 4 seconds doing something before starting another greeter
<flocculant> nothing that isn't normally in there
<bluesabre> GridCube: it's because of the way gtk-theme-config has it's layout configured... and btw, that has been dropped for bionic (from the seed and the archive)
<Leigh_on_sea> The Nextcloud desktop client Appimage won't start at startup, nor manually executing the file.  If I execute it repeatedly (i.e. double click it repeatedly) it eventually does start but has forgot my account password, asking for it and saying - Reading from keychain failed with error: 'No keychain service available'. Once its running, no problems.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-08
<willem> flocculant, didn know about https://wiki.xubuntu.org/qa/isotesting yet. Will have a look. Am thinking about several ways to go:
<willem> Some people like to read; some people like visuals; some people like simply to skip any reading or information and want to simply dig in... 
<willem> Perhaps there is a way to cater for all...
<Leigh_on_sea> willem: could you tell me which irc bouncer you used and point me towards links to get it up and running?
<willem> Sure. 
<willem> ZNC: https://wiki.znc.in/ZNC
<willem> As a client I use HexChat.
<willem> ZNC+HExChat work together quite well I find.
<Leigh_on_sea> I have done some reading and my initial thoughts are that the current set-up with  an introduction page (https://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa) and also a more in depth doc on everything (https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa.html) is good but that the intro page needs to be developed and extended whilst remaining very simple.
<Leigh_on_sea> thanks
<Leigh_on_sea> I had found ZNC myself
<willem> Leigh_on_sea, from what I read I find the information is all there, but it's written from the point of view of the developers-side of things. I am making a first setup/draft/concept where I start from the point of view of the end user. Will share that with you shortly, so that you can shoot at it.
<Leigh_on_sea> OK, thanks
<Leigh_on_sea> I am not in today but will try to set up ZNC so I don't miss posts. How will we exchange files etc? email?
<flocculant> do it on e-mail and cc me in :)
<flocculant> thanks both for thinking about this 
<flocculant> and good morning
<willem> Leigh_on_sea, apropos bouncer: I believe pleia2 may be able to help you there.
<Leigh_on_sea> I found a guide, will try to follow that and shout if I need help
<Leigh_on_sea> what about android IRC?
<willem> flocculant, I'll e-mail you, but as I don't have Leigh_on_sea's e-mail I'll rely on you to relay it on, and -if alright with Leigh_on_sea, to cc me so that I have his e-mail address.
<willem> flocculant, good morning btw. 
 * willem reminds himself that good manners are essential even on IRC
<flocculant> well I'd imagined that you two could do some back and forth and I'd interject if needed :)
<flocculant> willem: check the xubuntu user list for mails from Leigh_on_sea :)
<flocculant> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-users/2018-April/010505.html
 * willem facepalms for the bleeding obviousness of flocculant's suggestion :-)
<flocculant> :)
<willem> flocculant, thank
<willem> ou
<flocculant> np
<flocculant> also - re good manners, the Ubuntu CoC counts everywhere ;)
<flocculant> Leigh_on_sea: did try android irc once - didn't work well for me - but it was a while ago and I'm not good at paying for apps there ;)
<flocculant> Leigh_on_sea: also re irc bouncer - just mentioning the obvious here - but I assume you realise you need an always on machine for it to work
<Leigh_on_sea> good morning :)
<Leigh_on_sea> Flocculant: No, I didnt realise that - in fact that makes no sense to me as if I have to leave the machine on, why wouldnt I leave my client on (I am using Pidgin) and then I have no need for a bouncer?
<Leigh_on_sea> With people like me it is always good policy to state the bleeding obvious :) 
<flocculant> :)
<Leigh_on_sea> have to go, small person getting shirty about going to the beach
<flocculant> yea bouncers need to be always on somehow - or you'd lose it, there are logs of this channel - updated hourly(ish) at https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<flocculant> have fun at the beach then - cya another time
<willem> Leigh_on_sea, wasn't it you who had a raspberry pi running with OSMC? So have I, and that pi is running 24x7 and it's on that pi I installed ZNC
<willem> Works like a treat
<Leigh_on_sea> I have 10 around the house, one for the boat :)
<Leigh_on_sea> will look into it
<willem> great
<willem> Leigh_on_sea, My pi runs OSMC, pi-hole, RED-node and ZNC -  no problems whatsoever.
 * willem will be away for a bit
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 2.1.6 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin-2-1-6-released-tp50888.html (by Graeme Gott)
<ochosi> ali1234: why not put svgtopng directly into the python package?
<ali1234> i don't know how
<ochosi> would be more convenient to install, and it's a mandatory requirement anyway
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> (still generating my first diff, seems i chose a biggy :p)
<ali1234> bootstrap is already in there but that does not need to be compiled
<ochosi> right, but couldn't you ship svgtopng precompiled?
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> it's written in C
<ali1234> so it would break
<ali1234> i'll ask #python how to build it at install time
<ali1234> actually since it only seems to use gtk i can probably rewrite it in python
<ali1234> it #includes libxfce4ui but i can't see where it uses it
<ochosi> probably not necessary
<ochosi> but yeah, rewriting in python wold probably be the cleanest solution
<ochosi> even if that means it'll be a little slower at runtime
<ochosi> (maybe not by much if optimized)
<ochosi> nice work on the whole diff viewing
<ochosi> really really helpful
<ali1234> probably will be faster since there will not be the overhead of spawning a new process. the actual code speed difference will not be measuable
<ali1234> i can also add an entry point that will let you call svgtopng directly
<ochosi> nice work on the gradient conversion by the way
<ochosi> the remaining part for me is to adjust the gradient stops i guess
<ali1234> there's a bunch of files i could not convert too
<ali1234> too complex, i didn't know how to handle it
<ali1234> i listed them anyway
<ali1234> also not sure if i did the stroke right
<ochosi> oh, plus the stroke needs to be recolored
<ali1234> i did recolour some of them
<ali1234> there could also be radial gradients
<ochosi> no problem, i'll dig through the icons
<ochosi> there were quite a few more files touched though than expected
<ali1234> a lot of them have really tiny green bits
<ochosi> not sure why e.g. go-home would be modified
<ochosi> there are no green bits in that one
<ali1234> maybe the stroke
<ali1234> actually that was isn't modified
<ali1234> except for vacuum defs
<ochosi> hm
<ochosi> i only compared cf2bf4acbcbb1d54673fb484cac2a72a5a4a5218 to bfab3bcf27977cc3d09eeb0c195b32fd05d072bd
<ali1234> checking
<ali1234> go-home doesn't appear in that for me
<ochosi> strange
<ochosi> i'll clean up and try again
<ochosi> ali1234: did you try on your own branch?
<ochosi> oh crap
<ochosi> i'm just too tired obviously :p
<ochosi> i forgot i first tried with -a and never removed the parameter
<ochosi> ok nice, i think i can manually fix those 119
<ali1234> back
<ochosi> ali1234: so i'll try to clean up the icons and make them ready locally and then do the merge on the repo
<ochosi> thanks for saving me a lot of time there!
<ochosi> it's still quite a bit of effort i'm afraid (gotta re-create the border stroke for every icon, set the correct color/opacity and remove the border from the gradient path) but it's a lot less than without your help
<ochosi> (oh and adjust the gradient steps)
<ali1234> ochosi: pushed a pure python svgtopng
<ali1234> i think it should be 100% compatible with the C version
<ali1234> except for the default size stuff
<ali1234> that should be fixed now
<ali1234> also remember you can use tag and branch names :)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-01
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks - I forgot to mention that to oleks :)
<Unit193> Sure thing.
<flocculant> well I didn't totally forget - just forgot to tell them :D
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-02
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'd kind of like to figure out xfce4-volumed-pulse sometime, btw.  If xfce4-volumed has a future it changes how I would package -pulse, so I can't really push the latter without possibly screwing up the future for the former.
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'll figure out what we're doing with those two
<Unit193> From what I understand, there's interest in getting the one moving, just never has happened.
<bluesabre> Yeah, as things often go in xfce-land :)
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/MMs7mRRsWERV4tVqsTjY/ was my version, fwiw.
<Unit193> Oh hey, the new screenshooter fixes one single regression, we should really pick that up.
<bluesabre> Feel free to upload it. bbiab, jumping IRC clients
<pragomer> what xfce version will come 19.04 with?
<Unit193> Partly 4.13, a little 4.12, and some 4.11!
<Unit193> (OK, maybe not.)
<knome> lol
<Eickmeyer[m]> <Unit193 "(OK, maybe not.)"> In other words, yes.
<flocculant> Unit193: you should have said Gnome "
<flocculant> 2 even 
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-03
<bluesabre> Anybody know how to reliably reproduce the garcon/whisker crash?
<brainwash> bluesabre: the changelog for whiskermenu 2.3.1 mentions only this: "Fix crash when reload is required."
<brainwash> disco has 2.3.1
<brainwash> so, maybe this fix is faulty
<brainwash> https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/commit/?id=2fb2ec5a0fd031ad7ff377a86e8fd0e06c83ab94
<ochosi> fyi, tintou from elementary is now co-maintaining light-locker
<ochosi> so development will continue
<Unit193> Aren't we more interested in xfce4-screensaver?
<Dravere> Just wanted to drop by and say: Thank you very much for the xfwm update on 18.04! Appreciate your work! :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Someone appreciated you! â
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> hooray!
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-04
<bluesabre> https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce-announce/2019-April/000679.html in case anybody wants to package or test... 2 long-running LP bugs fixed with this one :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: parole 1.0.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-parole-1-0-2-released-tp52925.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<Unit193> Congrats, you beat the bot. :>
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Not a moment to spare when we're in release month and I have to go to work :D
<ochosi> Unit193: can we re-activate the "daily" part for xfce4-settings?
<ochosi> i've been working o that quite heavily lately and i suppose that's going to continue for a bit
<ochosi> (ah meh, forget it, i just requested some builds manually. that's good enough i guess)
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+recipe/xfce4-settings-daily seems to claim it is built daily.
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/xfce4-settings/trunk
<ochosi> vcs import has failed and therefore stopped
<ochosi> i'll see if that will run again
<ochosi> if so, i'll try to re-run the recipe
<Unit193> Already poking.
<ochosi> thanks a bunch!
<ochosi> vcs worked fine now
<ochosi> let's see if the builds do too
<Unit193> Packaging might need a re-sync, not sure.
<ochosi> right
<Unit193> Could use it, doesn't *need* it.
<ochosi> hm, the builds look ok, but the names are really odd
<ochosi> i mean the versions are off
<ochosi> is that a hardcoded thing..?
<ochosi> right, so it can't publish the builds because the names remain the same (which is wrong anyway)
<Unit193> 2774 is the bzr revno, afaik.
<ochosi> sure, but while the vcs was updated, the build name remained the same
<ochosi> or do i misunderstand something?
<Unit193> The following files contain translations and are currently not in use. Please
<Unit193> consider adding these to the POTFILES.in file, located in the po/ directory.
<Unit193> dialogs/display-settings/profile-changed-dialog.glade
<Unit193> That's the error.
<ochosi> fix pushed
<Unit193> ochosi: I added disco and was going to request a build for it too, but that button requested it for *all* enabled dists so several were duped (it had picked up on the vcs update, and automatically started them.)
<Unit193> \o/
<ochosi> scheduled another import
<ochosi> just to be sure i get a working build tonight :>
<ochosi> (need to force everybody in the office tomorrow to update so i get some testers >:D)
<Unit193> Not that it helps, but the experimental PPA contains the last release, even though disco doesn't (I'd presume you requested that, so I did.(
<Unit193> ))
<ochosi> kewl
<ochosi> yeah, i'm just trying to consolidate things before the next release
<ochosi> one issue i just fixed with the branch i merged was related to auto-applying of display profiles
<ochosi> the other issue i need to fix before the release is a dedicated icon for xfce4-color-settings
<ochosi> (even though it's an optional settings dialog)
<ochosi> ok, requested another build to see if it now works with the potfiles fix
<Unit193> Hha. :P
<Unit193> ...Why did I push xfconf in there?  So everything would build against the new lib?  Sounds like it..
<ochosi> i still haven't tested the gconf backend btw
<Unit193> I haven't because my script to migrate settings didn't work, so aliov needs poked, but he's not around sooo..
<Unit193> Also Corsac would greatly appreciate something more automatic than my script anyway.
<Unit193> AssertionError: Invalid sha for <Commit dd9f3d9dea2b6ed639d7bcd565d6b300299620df>: 14732d1bd3965dc09a2de78a4bcc812d1f478834
<Unit193> ochosi: You never force-pushed to elementary stuff did you?
<ochosi> hm, i don't think so
<ochosi> i mean it vaguely sounds like something i'd do, but not to the master branch
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-git/+bug/13138613
<ubottu> Error: launchpad bug 13138613 not found
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-git/+bug/1313861
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1313861 in Bazaar Git Plugin "git: AssertionError: Invalid sha for <Commit ...>: ..." [Undecided,Triaged]
<ochosi> yuck
<Unit193> We should just have git imports to the git format and drop bzr entirely.
<bluesabre> do eeeeet
<Unit193> (I'm looking at the rest of the daily builds and fixing.)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh hey!
<bluesabre> dinner time, bbabl
<Unit193> Hahaha!
<Unit193> I don't think I can push to your packaging repos, though.
<bluesabre> D:
<bluesabre> Unit193: lemme know which ones tied to me and I'll get them moved to xubuntu-dev
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'm about to package up parole 1.0.2, unless you already have it somewhere?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Noo, that's your baby, I didn't touch it!
<bluesabre> Coolio
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-05
<bluesabre> 19.04 is looking pretty good, https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/19.04/release-notes :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: can you take a look at the panel/taskmanager bugs listed on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-d-bugs ? We've been carrying them for a few releases.
<knome> ochosi, around?
<knome> bluesabre, or you
<knome> or maybe even Unit193 could help me
<ochosi> knome: what's up?
<ochosi> bluesabre: i can't confirm the panel bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1756608
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1756608 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Applications Menu plugin clips panel icon." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> actually both panel bugs
<ochosi> i think i may have resolved them with 4.13.4
<ochosi> i spent quite a bit of time on fixing icon sizes (incl. the new feature of setting fixed sizes for all panel icons and plugins that support the new API
<ochosi> )
<brainwash> ochosi: disco has 4.13.4
<knome> ochosi, i built and installed the colord branch from git. how on earth am i supposed to get to the dialog?
<knome> xfce4-settings colord branch, that is
<oleks> Hi, if I'm having trouble resuming after a suspend, which logs should I take a look at?
<brainwash> ochosi: the round icon is not clipped when panel size is set to 19px up to 39px excluding 34px
<brainwash> but smaller or larger than that and it gets clipped
<brainwash> oleks: you probably should ask in #ubuntu+1
<ochosi> knome: did you look at the output of autogen.sh? you need to have libcolord-dev installed, otherwise it doesn't get built
<ochosi> it's an optional dialog
<ochosi> brainwash: i think the padding is set to 1px in the panel for buttons, which is reasonable from my pov, so 16px icon + 4px = 20px. for smaller panels you simply need a smaller icon imho
<ochosi> not sure why it would be clipped at >39px, haven't tested that yet
<ochosi> actually whisker is clipped in the same way
<ochosi> maybe the panel API returns a wrong size
<ochosi> other plugin icons are also slightly clipped
<brainwash> numix works best in this regard
<ochosi> yeah, that's the panel's API causing that
<ochosi> at least it's one central place to fix all plugins...
<ochosi> i'll take a quick look
<ochosi> ok, i have a working fix for that issue
<ochosi> so <19 works, 34px works and >39px also works (with Adwaita)
<brainwash> amazing
<ochosi> well, "amazing"...
<ochosi> i'd say it's a little embarrassing that wasn't fixed earlier
<ochosi> bluesabre: if we can still include that patch, i suggest we do it: https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/commit/?id=3abbe78bfa3c643f7d31338e97682d8490a09a59
<knome> ochosi, i think i did have it, but i'll double-check tomorrow
<ochosi> knome: also, you can take git master, the colord branch has been merged a (short) while ago
<ochosi> the easiest would probably be to ask bluesabre to adjust his recipe for the daily xfce4-settings builds to include the colord dependency
<Unit193> 157 files changed, 4483 insertions(+), 6416 deletions(-)  that's a-ok to slip in now, right? :D
<knome> suuuure.
<Unit193> While it might be nice, Budgie ships the dang thing, annoyingly...
<Unit193> knome: I can't update that xfce4-settings packaging for you either, btw.
<bluesabre> Unit193: which thing?
<bluesabre> ochosi: good work!
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+recipe/mousepad-daily - https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+recipe/parole-zesty-daily - https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+recipe/xfce4-settings-daily  but was looking at that last one really.  I mean, these are your things really, so no harm.
<Unit193> See also, git: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/Recipes
<bluesabre> ochosi: good news, your patch fixes the other panel bug at the same time :)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-06
<Eickmeyer> New xfce4-panel?
 * Eickmeyer got pinged from #ubuntu-release
<Eickmeyer> Oh! Adds 4px internal padding!
<Eickmeyer> That might be nice. Should we adjust the size of the panel in Ubuntu Studio accordingly?
<bluesabre> Most themes should already handle that nicely... to my knowledge, the clipping happened primarily in Adwaita
<bluesabre> If your icons were rendered fully, they should continue to look the same  :)
<Eickmeyer> Okay, that works. Our default theme is changing to Materia this cycle, and so far things work nicely. I'll be watching.
<bluesabre> Nice
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh I forgot to say, I plan to clear Bionic out of xubuntu-dev/experimental.
 * bluesabre checks out the materia theme
 * Eickmeyer got tired of having the (incredibly small) team maintain Numix-Blue, and Materia fit quite nicely.
<bluesabre> Good news, updated panel looks fine with materia
<Eickmeyer> \o/
<bluesabre> Unit193: alrighty, go for it
 * bluesabre plans to upgrade work desktop to cosmic
<Eickmeyer> There is one bug we have when it comes to Ubiquity and its handling of the font color on the top bar header. That's in progress.
<Unit193> "Oh whoops, deleted the PPA instead!" :>
<bluesabre> D:
<Unit193> ..So in theory for the elementary-xfce packaging, you could just git import the Salsa packaging too, I'd think.
<Eickmeyer> <impemoji/>
<Unit193> Deletion comment: Bionic is not a place for experiments
<bluesabre> :)
<Eickmeyer> Unit193: hahaha
<Unit193> Hmm?
<knome> ochosi, i certainly have libcolord-dev installed, and i'm looking at autogen output, but there's nothing about color
<knome> nvm, it works now. apparently i had needed to do some kind of "make clean" operation :P
<knome> and thank you for implementing this. now it's even useful to me as i got a hold of a spider for a while..
<Unit193> You're holding a spider?
<Unit193> What's the colord profiling benefit precisely?
<knome> that's the question i've been asking myself whole last night.
<knome> (now that i've seen how "much" it changes)
<ochosi> knome: you need gnome-color-manager for the info and calibrate buttons
<knome> ochosi, ahha...
<ochosi> if they're shown and you dont have it thats a bug
<knome> yep
<knome> there you go :P
<ochosi> they're shown conditionally
<ochosi> preselecting a device is possible, i didnt feel it was necessary though
<knome> yeah
<knome> it's a bit frustrating that it's not done
<ochosi> knowing which the primary monitor isnt that easy though
<knome> with one-monitor setups...
<ochosi> i could just select the first element
<knome> well just even pick the first one
<knome> yes, that's fair enough
<ochosi> could also be a printer or a scanner though
<knome> right, but still
<knome> just pre-select anything :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> bbl, kids are waiting
<knome> hf
<knome> fwiw, xfce4-settings is now 100% translated to finnish
<knome> bluesabre, why is there a string that should not be translated in catfish? :P
<ochosi> knome: kewl, i may need to improve some more strings before the final release though... ;)
<ochosi> also, feel free to remind me about those two things or submit bugreports so i dont forget
<ochosi> and thanks for testing!
<knome> ochosi, no problemo!
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-sensors-plugin/1.3.92-1/+build/16332920 have any ideas about that?
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-07
<brainwash> bluesabre: reverting https://git.xfce.org/apps/ristretto/commit/?id=69b7459957427aed16caddb699c5b496dfb6deee fixes thumbnail generation
<bluesabre> brainwash: nice find! It's unfortunate the related bug has literally no details
<bluesabre> Will give that a test and get the wheels rolling in xfce-land
<bluesabre> Sure enough, that does it
<ochosi> bluesabre: thanks for uploading the panel fix!
<bluesabre> ochosi: thanks for coding it!
<ochosi> well, it almost wasn't *coding* ;)
<bluesabre> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-30
<Unit193> usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/xfce4/panel/plugins/libpulseaudio-plugin.so Disconected Disconnected
<Unit193> bluesabre: I whined at jbicha for sync'ing the bad xfpm.
<bluesabre> > Disconected Disconnected, d'oh!
<bluesabre> interestingly, it looks like I packaged the previous session but never uploaded it
<bluesabre> -session uploaded, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/4.14.2-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> ali1234: patched xfwm4 uploaded, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/4.14.0-2ubuntu1
<Unit193> :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: New xfpm coming too or no?
<DarkTrick> I'd like to propose a change in how the package `vlc` gets installed on xubuntu. Precisely: I'd like to propose to add the `--no-one-instance` option to the (whiskers)menu item. 
<DarkTrick> Q: Where is the best place to turn to, here?
<bluesabre> Unit193: xfpm 1.6.6 should be all we need
<bluesabre> DarkTrick: We don't ship vlc, and wouldn't ship a customized config or launcher for it unless there was a critical issue that prevented it from running in xubuntu. We'd leave that decision to the package maintainers (who appear to be the Debian Multimedia Team)
<Unit193> Unless /usr/share/applications/vlc.desktop is unmodified from upstream.
<ali1234> bluesabre: i think so yes
<ali1234> (the xfwm patch)
<ali1234> seems to work
<DarkTrick> bluesabre, thank you for that information!
<DarkTrick> bluesabre: I wasn't sure if the package maintainers are the ones who do it
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is Unit193
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2020-March/001276.html
<bluesabre> ochosi: care to vote on those last few? Still sitting at 5 winners without anybody tweaking their votes :)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-31
<Unit193> Hrm, seems we're too late to update some packages.
<bluesabre> which ones?
<Unit193> xfce4-clipman-plugin, xfce4-terminal.
<bluesabre> clipman seems pretty substantial, terminal not so much
<Unit193> "The queue freeze will last from now until final release in April, which
<Unit193> means that all seeded packages will now need a spot-check and review in
<Unit193> the queue from a release team member before they are let into the
<Unit193> archive."
<jphilips> bluesabre ochosi Unit193: any update on the finalization of the wallpaper winners, as it was intended to be announced at the end of march and today is the last day of march
<jphilips> would be great to put the winning wallpaper on marketing images i'm working on as well :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: clipman adds a new binary, other than that it's also lots of fixes...
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, will go back to voting tonight
<bluesabre> jphilips: voting's not done yet, but should be today
<bluesabre> ochosi: much appreciated, hopefully you'll surface the last winner (and not negate one of the +1s)
<Unit193> If he does the latter, just discard his vote. :>
<ochosi> :D
<jphilips> Unit193: i wanted to setup a telegram group that bridges with #xubuntu. Can you install and get this snap running https://snapcraft.io/matterbridge
<jphilips> pleia2: or possibly you ^^^
<pleia2> no, unfortunately I definitely don't have the time to run and maintain a service like that
<jphilips> pleia2: not sure how much maintenance it will take as its a snap
<jphilips> does xubuntu have any servers of its own that this could run off?
<pleia2> I did operations for 15 years, and I'm telling you I don't have time right now ;) you still need to schedule upgrades when a new snap comes out, restart it when the bridge dies (the bridge died in a community I'm part of when the owner was vacationing in Europe, it was not good)
<pleia2> dev.xubuntu.org is an Ubuntu server, if we have at least 2 systems type folks to volunteer to be on call for it, we can discuss setting it up
<pleia2> but like all of our shared resources for the project, this really has to be a team decision, presented with pros/cons and whatnot
<jphilips> pleia2: thanks for the explanation
<jphilips> is xubuntu-docs still hosted on launchpad as someone mentioned 'Cosmic is EOL. It looks like xubuntu-docs no longer uses LP for translations. You need to find out where translations of that package happens nowadays.'
<bluesabre> ochosi: ping ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hi.  So with regards to backporting, how do I need to do the lock-setep -session/xfpm/-screensaver?  Is xfpm the "problem" one that needs 4.14.2 -session?
<bluesabre> Unit193: they're all partially at fault... xfpm and session didn't talk to it correctly before, and screensaver didn't respond correctly (was not sending a response as opposed to sending a blank response)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yes, though one change made it all clear to the user.  If 4.14 isn't backported, I should skip xfpm .6?
<Unit193> bluesabre: To be clear: Not trying to blame, just backport with the least amount of bugs. :3
<bluesabre> Right
<bluesabre> Technically, you can use an older xfpm and session, since the screensaver knew they didn't work before it correctly handles the events they are now in charge of :)
<bluesabre> There's not really a good answer because I already worked around everybody else :D
<Unit193> OK, so just backports of -screensaver.  Thank you!
<bluesabre> Alrighty, will be back later to announce the wallpaper winners (or upvote more things, I guess)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-01
<bluesabre> Well, with no more votes, I guess there's only 5 winners this time...
<bluesabre> I have one that I downvoted previously that I thought was OK, but the user submitted 9 entries
<bluesabre> Actually
<bluesabre> Unit193: feel like doing some council duties?
<bluesabre> There's 8 valid submissions tied +3/-3
<bluesabre> It's our time to shine ;)
<Unit193> jphilips: I'm not the right person to ping for that.  Also with regards to translations, we moved the docs to git, which right now LP doesn't support translations with git projects.
<jphilips> Unit193: so there is no point asking people to contribute translations then?
<Unit193> I can't answer that.
<jphilips> whom could answer this
<bluesabre> I believe they can still be translated in Launchpad, they just have to be manually imported.
<bluesabre> Ah, I see. cosmic is the latest release there. I'll see if I can set up an import branch to get that rolling again.
<jphilips> as i've been asking people to contribute on launchpad, as that is where our website tells people to go for it
<bluesabre> Of course. There's no place else to contribute.
<jphilips> okay. wouldnt want the contributors efforts to be for nothing.
<jphilips> also been asking translation teams to approve pending reviews
<bluesabre> jphilips: master can now be translated
<bluesabre> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs
<jphilips> bluesabre: i still see 'Translation for cosmic'
<bluesabre> Yep, one sec. Need to kick a few more things.
<bluesabre> Now we're waiting for Launchpad to run some queues
<bluesabre> Might be a little while.
<bluesabre> jphilips: should be good now I think
<jphilips> bluesabre: yes 'translation for master' so guess that it how it should be rather than 'translation for focal'
<bluesabre> Yeah, Launchpad will only let me mirror a single git branch, so master it is
<bluesabre> Our docs don't currently change much as it is
<jphilips> am trying to change that :D
<jphilips> some from ubuntu testers were willing to contribute but hit the snag yesterday
<lotuspsychje> morning all
<lotuspsychje> anyone knows howto translate for xubuntu the right way?
<lotuspsychje> the launchpad gives me no edit fields
<jphilips> bluesabre: lotuspsychje was the one trying to contribute yesterday and still not able to contribute to master
<jphilips> does he need to be part of a particular group in order to contribute?
<lotuspsychje> tried to join the dutch translate group once, but never had reply from it
<jphilips> i'm not part of any group that i know of, but i can submit to any language
<lotuspsychje> using firefox?
<bluesabre> I'm not sure how translations permissions are normally handled, but I think there's an IRC channel and ML for it.
<lotuspsychje> there's #ubuntu-translators
<lotuspsychje> and a very active gunnarJ i asked him, but he asked me to find the right translations LP for xubuntu
<lotuspsychje> GunnarHj> lotuspsychje: Cosmic is EOL. It looks like xubuntu-docs no longer uses LP for translations. You need to find out where translations of that package happens nowadays.
<jphilips> lotuspsychje: that part is fixed as we are using master now
<lotuspsychje> we need to find someone that translates active
<jphilips> please check with GunnarHj again
<lotuspsychje> hmm LP lagging on me
<bluesabre> https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-20-04-community-wallpaper-contest-winners/
<lotuspsychje> lovely
<bluesabre> It's still March here (3/31 23:57) :)
<bluesabre> I did my part for now, time for bed. Night everybody!
<lotuspsychje> nite
<bluesabre> jphilips: contest winners announcement above, in case you want to get the social media posts out :)
<jphilips> bluesabre: thanks
<jphilips> bluesabre: has a default wallpaper been decided?
<ochosi> bluesabre, Unit193: personally i would have preferred to go with session .2 and xfpm .6 because then all issues are properly resolved (plus some additional annoying bugs fixed)
<Unit193> !info xfce4-session focal
<ubottu> xfce4-session (source: xfce4-session): Xfce4 Session Manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.14.2-0ubuntu1 (focal), package size 296 kB, installed size 1673 kB
<ochosi> but i guess we can also leave the "broken working" setup in place :)
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> domo arigato
<Unit193> *backport* purposes. :)
<jphilips> ochosi: you know japanese or an anime fan :D
<ochosi> why?
<ochosi> i know how to read/write some japanese terms, but that's about it
<ochosi> and anime - i guess i wouldn't call myself specifically as a fan (especially when looking at real fans)
<jphilips> you said 'domo arigato'
<ochosi> well there's a song...
<Unit193> A rather old one, that I actually got the reference to!  I nearly shouted "Hey!  I am not a robot!" :P
<Unit193> So I should likely do a beta build of core about now.
<jphilips> yep
<Unit193> Someone just uploaded ubiquity, maybe in a bit rather.
<ochosi> Unit193: that was my hope :p
<bluesabre> jphilips: knome is still finalizing the the 20.04 default wallpaper.
<Unit193> bluesabre: FYI: LiveFS xubuntu/bionic/amd64 failed to build on 20200401, I'm discarding it though.
<bluesabre> Alrighty
<bluesabre> That was the buildbot's April Fools joke.
<lotuspsychje> jphilips: maybe the english translations are more open then the dutch? https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-nl says you need to be accepted and go for a trail period first, to see how it goes
<lotuspsychje> *trial
<jphilipz> lotuspsychje: doubt that is the case when i can submit suggestions for dutch
<lotuspsychje> oh tnx for testing
<lotuspsychje> so what the..is going here
<jphilipz> baffles me
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-02
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Remove convoy as a dependency of MAAS @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=26be527c5e253eb117097104384d1a9f6d3633d4 (by Adam Collard)
<ItPlayzzzDaveYT> Hello!
<Unit193> bluesabre: Err...thunar got missed.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-03
<Unit193> ochosi: ...You on focal?
<Unit193> Looks like https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=887022 was fixed.
<ubottu> Debian bug 887022 in xfce4-clipman "xfce4-clipman: History vanishes on reboot" [Important,Open]
<Unit193> ochosi: You seemingly forgot to update POTFILES.in?
<jphilips> Unit193: is the beta of core out?
<Unit193> There wouldn't be a beta precisely, just a fresher build.
<Wimpress> Morning o/
<Unit193> Wimpress: Fancy meeting you here.
<Wimpress> Is anyone here, who is in awake hours, able to mark Xubuntu images ready?
<Wimpress> We've done some smoke testing, as have community.
<Wimpress> Looking good.
<Unit193> There should be shortly, but he'll be pretty busy.
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 20.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<Unit193> jphilips: â
<jphilips> Unit193: thanks
<bluesabre> Wimpress: marked as ready
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: maas: split into supported and community. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=a80f1675ac80b0c4581e270a45bc67985f47de17 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
<Wimpress> bluesabre: Thanks!
<bluesabre> knome: any luck with the wallpaper? We're in beta freeze now, which means the uploads are slow to be approved. I'll be doing various fixes and uploads over the weekend (and then we'll hopefully be mostly done for the cycle).
<bluesabre> I'll probably also schedule a meeting for once the testing week is over
<Unit193> I presume you saw my earlier ping?
<jphilips> Unit193: are you okay with list for core - smaller, lighter, faster
<jphilips> with this* for
<Unit193> It's not really faster, depends on how you define 'lighter' as to the accuracy of that.
<jphilips> smaller download, lighter on startup services, and faster as less memory being used
<jphilips> had someone on facebook mention they went with core as regular was to heavy for their old laptop
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/3q6wrfh.png
<bluesabre> Unit193: about thunar, yeah... haven't had a chance to peek at that yet.
<Unit193> Like I've mentioned before, the idea is basically a configured Xfce setup with not a lot of extras.
<Unit193> Hence, not even a browser or GUI package manager.
<jphilips> i'm aware, just trying to create a logo for it and mention its main points below the logo in simple terms
<Unit193> 'only what *you* want'? :P
<jphilips> if you are happy with that, lets go for it. doing this so you'd also put it on your website :D
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/2Bcqm0k.png
<Unit193> Not really into slogans really, if it's what someone wants to use great, if not then the full desktop is a great option.  I just don't want to be misleading people.
<Unit193> So if that works, great.
<jphilips> facebook comment: "Among the winners there are no wp for dark themes :("
<ochosi> Unit193: the potfiles are already fixed in master
<ochosi> i plan to do a maintenance release soon, i just wanted to give the translators some time to catch up
<ochosi> also in terms of that bugreport 1.6.0 should significantly improve the history handlin
<ochosi> (before the history was deleted a lot in the running process, e.g. at startup)
<jphilips> anyone know how to fix this 'E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt --fix-broken install' with no packages (or specify a solution).'
<jphilips> as running the command doesnt do anything
<jphilips> my bad, only used one - rather than 2 :D
<jphilips> bluesabre, ochosi: will the release notes be available soon.
<bluesabre> Gotta write them.
<bluesabre> So, maybe this weekend?
<Unit193> jphilips: Sounds like you tried dpkg -i on a deb?  Perhaps try  apt install ./pkg.deb  instead?
<Unit193> ochosi: Ah gotcha, I'll wait.  Thanks!  And yep, looked to me like you fixed it. :)
<jphilips> Unit193: thanks. i solved it
<jphilips> if you see anyone join with a username starting with xu-core-beta, they are here for you :D
<ochosi> Unit193: 10 langs have already been updated since the refreshed potfiles has been pushed, so i'd give it until early next week and then do the patch release
<ochosi> maybe i should include "make check" in the release script as a trivial self test...
<ochosi> i guess i thought make distcheck includes make check or something
<Unit193> It doesn't?
<ochosi> i guess i would have received an error, no?
<ochosi> i mean make check literally fails
<ochosi> make distcheck passes
<Unit193> Which seems so odd, but yeah..
<ochosi> i know..
<ochosi> i can test it again, but i already tried it two days ago (or so)
<Unit193> Anyway, if you were on focal or whatnot I was going to say I can do the backport for you in a PPA, but I imagine you install from git.
<Unit193> albinard: Heya!
<Unit193> For suspending, what happens if you run: dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.freedesktop.login1 /org/freedesktop/login1 org.freedesktop.login1.Manager.Suspend boolean:true  ?
<albinard> The 04/03 ISO of Xubuntu Core installed on HP p7-1010, AMD64, BIOS, 6GB RAM: installed cleanly, very fast, currently running well with a lot of added software.
<albinard> Oops - just saw your note while I was typing.  
<Unit193> Hah, no problemo
<albinard> Okay, I'll see what I can do.  Never probed quite that deep, but I'll give it a shot!
<albinard> unit193: it just threw me off line, but suspended instantly.
<albinard> Sois that my new Suspend instruction?
<Unit193> ...So I just learned this computer does *not* suspend well.  Couldn't even restart X or switch to a TTY. :P
<Unit193> albinard: Well that's the dbus call to logind, so it sort of helps to try and show where the issue might be.
<albinard> Sorry to hear I got you into a mess. I really have no complaint about a 30 sec wait for Suspend.
<albinard> Come to think of it, I'd rather do that than get myself into some other problem trying to fix it!
<Unit193> Hah, nah that's fine.  I should see if I can find another system that suspends at least a little better.  A delay in suspend doesn't exactly seem ideal.
<Unit193> My netbook does suspend, as long as I don't close the lid! >_<
<albinard> Thank you for the help, and thanks for all the ISOs!
<Unit193> Sure thing, glad that at least worked.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-04
<Unit193> Filtered diffstat of xfce4-terminal: 11 files changed, 57 insertions(+), 20 deletions(-), that seems safe.
<Unit193> debdiff xfce4-terminal_0.8.9.1-1.dsc xfce4-terminal_0.8.9.2-1.dsc | filterdiff -x '*.po' -x '*/configure' -x '*/ChangeLog'
<ochosi> Unit193: indeed, most of what i run is from git tbh... all the 4.15 stuff. but i'll soon try to do more 4.15 releases so ppl have a better basis for testing
<Unit193> Eh, that's not really related.
<bluesabre> Unit193: my desktop suspends quickly, but coming back from suspend I see a black screen and a cursor bar for about 30 seconds before everything comes back. It's very bizarre... I figure it's probably just the weird combination of cheap gaming parts in a Cyberpower pc.
<Unit193> Full desktop I presume?
<bluesabre> Yeah
<ochosi> sounds odd, havent seen that before
<FurretUber> Hi, there is a strange crash happening on Focal. By the messages, it seems to be caused by xfwm4: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1870265
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1870265 in linux (Ubuntu) "Intel GPU causes BUG: kernel NULL pointer dereference, address: 0000000000000040" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<FurretUber> I was able to reproduce this crash from the Xubuntu Beta
<FurretUber> Also, I was unable to reproduce it from Lubuntu Beta
<jphilips> thanks for reporting FurretUber 
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: garcon 0.7.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-garcon-0-7-0-released-tp58173.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: libxfce4ui 4.15.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-libxfce4ui-4-15-2-released-tp58178.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<bikepunk> hi all, 
<bikepunk> what is the reason to have an entry for xfce4-terminal --prefecrences in the applications menu ?
<bikepunk> I find it super confusing, 
<bikepunk> the entry is called xfce terminal and it has the very same logo as the entry to launch the actual terminal
<bikepunk> the preferences are anyway accessible from the Edit>Preferences within xfce4 terminal
 * bikepunk is looking into https://docs.xfce.org/apps/terminal/bugs
<bikepunk> not sure its the good place to report that issue tough
<brainwash> bikepunk: it's the entry from the Settings category
<Unit193> If you use whisker, you wouldn't know.
<brainwash> which is shown in the settings manager also
<brainwash> I was under the impression that this entry was changed or adjusted already
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14456
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14456 in General "Entry name for xfce4-terminal-settings in Whisker menu is misleading" [Minor,Resolved: fixed]
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-clipman-plugin 1.6.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-clipman-plugin-1-6-1-released-tp58180.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<bikepunk> brainwash, I use whisker
<bikepunk> when I type "term" in the search, I get 2 entries, same logo and similar name :-(
<bikepunk> oups I was talking to Unit193 
<brainwash> I thought that this part was clear
<brainwash> and I linked the upstream report
<bikepunk> brainwash, yep, this is the issue I was reporting, thanks for the link ;-)
<brainwash> the report is closed, so the issue should be fixed
<bikepunk> it's not fixed in up to date 18.04
<bikepunk> hope it will be in 20.04
<brainwash> probably
<bikepunk> but still I dont understant the need to have an entry for terminal preferences, may be I'm just weird
<brainwash> well, now is the time to test it
<brainwash> terminal preferences is meant for the Settings category which is used by the Settings Manager too
<brainwash> you can find Thunar preferences there too
<bikepunk> I see that, I dont understand the logic of it. But it's not a bug, it's a personal feeling
<brainwash> modifying those settings without actually opening xfce4-terminal or Thunar?
<bikepunk> yep. I don't know any user who would do that
<bikepunk> all the users I know run the stuff then clic on preferences if needed
<bikepunk> I wanted to report the same kind of issue for the entry "softwares & updates" opening software-properties-gtk
<bikepunk> but may be this is fixed too
<brainwash> best to actually check it
<Unit193> That's used to configure software and updates, not sure what's there to fix..
<bikepunk> Unit193, the bloody misleading name !
<Unit193> How?
<bikepunk> "configuration" shall be explicitly in the name of the entry
<Unit193> It's in settings, sooo...
<bikepunk> not when you're using search
<Unit193> Should all entries in settings contain the name 'configuration'?
<Unit193> Perhaps search should be modified to show what category it is in.
<bikepunk> Unit193, yep, may be
<Unit193> Note: We don't maintain software-properties-gtk so that one at least wasn't our fault anyway. :D
<bikepunk> I don't blame anyone, just trying to make things better 
<bikepunk> xubuntu people might maintain the name of the entry in the menu though
<Unit193> Hah, yeah that was mainly an 'not our doing' thing, more of a lighthearted joke.  This doesn't seem great though https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1860504
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1860504 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "software-properties-gtk fails to launch via "Additional Drivers" or via terminal" [Low,New]
<bikepunk> oups ^
<Unit193> In settings, you have a couple that say 'manager', some say 'preferences', some say 'settings', some are very clear by the name, and some just rely on category.
<bikepunk> I find the name "Software-properties" much more meaningful than "Software & updates"
<bikepunk> it's actually the name of the package...
<bikepunk> most of the GUI users I see are misleaded and open that to make the apt upgrade
<bikepunk> while CLI users are not bothered by the GUI misleading stuff
<Unit193> â 
<Unit193> I have Synaptic installed, also trying package-update-indicator, but I don't use the GUI for updates or package management.
<bikepunk> I avoid GUI as much as possible for my personnal use
<Unit193> I use a web browser!
<bikepunk> but since I help installing xubuntu to people making the switch to FOSS
<bikepunk> I actually see what people do, try and understand
<bikepunk> and the current menu entries are quite misleading
<Unit193> I also use applications menu, not whisker, so the presentation is different.
<bikepunk> "applications menu" is what you get with default alt + F3 ?
<bikepunk> Unit193, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1222527/comments/5
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1222527 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Rename 'Software & Updates' label" [Low,Confirmed]
<bikepunk> someone has implemented in gnome search what you suggested for whisker
 * bikepunk go to sleep.
<bikepunk> I will try the beta 20.04 tomorow for testing and file some enhencements for the future
<bikepunk> thanks for your work ;-)
<bikepunk> wow, the misleading name bug is actually open since 2013...
<bikepunk> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1222527
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1222527 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Rename 'Software & Updates' label" [Low,Confirmed]
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-05
<Unit193> bikepunk: No, the menu that whisker is an alternative for.
<bikepunk> whisker is installed and configured by default in xubuntu 18.04
<FurretUber> While the whisker menu is default on Xubuntu, it is an external module, while the applications menu is not
<FurretUber> I find the experience with the whisker menu better than the applications menu. However, there are a few computers so limited I had to use applications menu instead
<FurretUber> The additional 20 or 30 MB memory usage per external modules in the default Xubuntu panel increases memory usage in a way it was meaningful. They aren't Pi Zero, but are close
<bikepunk> FurretUber, thanks for the details ;-)
<bikepunk> does anyone know why the default command for "PrintScreen" key is "xfce4-screenshooter -f" and not simply "xfce4-screenshooter" wich provides more usefull options ?
<FurretUber> I don't know why, but to me it is better. Because, not rarely, I want to take a screenshot from the instant, and a prompt with options could make lose that moment
<bikepunk> ok, but in other distributions I'm used to have the choice of what I want to take. at first it made me think that xfce4-screenshooter was unable to select the area to caputre...
<FurretUber> It is actually better on Focal Beta, as the Shift+PrintScreen shortcut is added by default now
<bikepunk> the "xfce4screenshooter -f" gives a prompt anyway, with less options
<FurretUber> Is the option to save the notifications new on 4.14? I tried using it, but after a few hours, it made everything work slower
<FurretUber> I noticed the problem was that it was saving every volume change notification, and it grew to hundreds of notifications
<FurretUber> After that, anything that would send a notification would work delayed. Not just the notification, the program that tried to send it too
<FurretUber> Does it tries to write to the log file immediately?
<bikepunk> just tried focal
<bikepunk> the Shift+PrintSreen is neat, as soon as you're aware of it
<bikepunk> I'll have to reopen the bug https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14456
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14456 in General "Entry name for xfce4-terminal-settings in Whisker menu is misleading" [Minor,Resolved: fixed]
<bikepunk> since the fix doesn't fix the display in Whisker menu
<bikepunk> it mitigate in application finder though
<knome> bluesabre, soon, soon, before thu ;)
<bluesabre> knome, awesome, thanks :)
<ASE9411> Hi. I'm looking for a book (or books) that teach how to develope in ubuntu.
<ASE9411> Any recommendations?
<Unit193> I don't have a clue at least.
<ASE9411> I'll try to lookup something in piratebay
<bluesabre> ASE9411: Books on GTK development would get you moving in the right direction, https://www.oreilly.com/search/?query=gtk
<bluesabre> Unit193: anything other changes you'd recommend for the community-wallpapers package? https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-community-artwork/+git/xubuntu-community-artwork/+ref/master
<bluesabre> (fixed a typo just now)
<Unit193> Heh, "drop d/control" :D
<bluesabre> Yeah, figured we'd go for a truly minimal approach
<ASE9411> bluesabre: thanks, I'll look it up.
<Unit193> Can the breaks/replaces be dropped now?
<Unit193> But otherwise, no comment.
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xfce4-clipman-plugin/news/20200405T120434Z.html
<Unit193> ochosi: http://paste.openstack.org/show/NVbJL0BJ5ZucPJ8enH10, http://paste.openstack.org/show/g5dJodX0ytKaTiOVLHS7
<ochosi> Unit193: i prefer bz reports, but thanks, pushed!
<Unit193> ochosi: Thanks!
<Unit193> I don't know what I was thinking last night when I couldn't sleep: https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/goodies/xfce4-clipman-plugin/-/commit/7e5b2ccffbc419402d01e03bb636f9d0d5693a33
<bluesabre> pleia2: for the wallpaper contest winners, should I just email them for mailing addresses and then send the results your way?
