#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-02-01
<Takyoji> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/2010-February/003863.html
<Takyoji> Gah, if only SVG images could be used as backgrounds with the use of CSS
<Takyoji> only Opera supports it currently supposed
<Takyoji> supposedly*
<Takyoji> I'm trying to create a FOSS-related website; but one of the things that's difficult is to think of what would be symbolic of FOSS to incorperate
<Takyoji> or just of what type of stock imagery I should take
<sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: Is there a LoCo mtg in here tomorrow?
<tonyyarusso> yes
<tonyyarusso> Although I just noticed the Google Calendar is all screwed up :(
<sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: yours or the team's?  And, the team has a Google Calendar?
<tonyyarusso> team's, and yes
<sparklehistory> Where?
<tonyyarusso> http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/pdvcqb9e4iksplcuf19imna6us%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics
<sparklehistory> Why does it want me to download it?
<tonyyarusso> because you clicked on it.
<sparklehistory> well, duh
<sparklehistory> I mean why can't I just look at it online?
<tonyyarusso> http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=pdvcqb9e4iksplcuf19imna6us%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/Chicago
<sparklehistory> thank you
<sparklehistory> So it's not supposed to say there's a mtg on Sun. Feb. 7 @1:00?
<tonyyarusso> no
<tonyyarusso> That got messed up by my Nokia.
<Takyoji> So there's a meeting today then?
<Takyoji> For those that are interested; I found this today: http://www.linux.com/news/featured-blogs/167-amanda-mcpherson/280632-how-to-learn-linux-from-the-developers-of-linux-for-free
 * Takyoji reposts for _diablo
<Takyoji> <Takyoji> So there's a meeting today then?
<Takyoji>  For those that are interested; I found this today: http://www.linux.com/news/featured-blogs/167-amanda-mcpherson/280632-how-to-learn-linux-from-the-developers-of-linux-for-free
<_diablo> Takyoji, what time?
<Takyoji> additionally I had a good idea for a topic of discussion for the meeting: anyone willing to participate would have to do like x hours of work through contributing to some form of a FOSS project. Such as writing content for the Spread Ubuntu "Make Materials", working on an IRC bot to fit all our needs on this channel, working on the Minnesota LoCo website, creating marketing material, contributing code to some project, etc
<Takyoji> Just as a basic initiative for people to do something, and have people talking more.
<Takyoji> otherwise I'm not entirely sure; I think it's some time after 7pm
<_diablo> kk
<_diablo> yeah, that's a good thing to bring up. I'd post it.
<Takyoji> We can discuss it at the IRC meeting and work out the details, then throw it on the mailing list as well
<Takyoji> one thing that would be nice is that if we were a little more collaborative; it just seems everyone's quietly doing their own little things
<Takyoji> because I'd love to brainstorm/discuss/weigh ideas before executing them. I'm quite an indecisive individual
<_diablo> agreed
<mr_steve> I for one would love to commit to spending a certain amount of time working on FOSS, if my schedule can allow it
<mr_steve> I like packaging software for Ubuntu, which probably means I'm masochistic, but someone's gotta do it :)
<_diablo> I don't have any idea how to do that, but I'm interested
<mr_steve> Some of it can be pretty easy, but it gets complicated in a hurry. Definitely a steep learning curve
<_diablo> aight, fair enough
<Takyoji> And that's the other thing, people could also learn how to contribute in some things, such as packaging
<_diablo> yup
<mr_steve> And documentation. I should be doing some of that myself. If I spend a few hours learning how to use some poorly-documented package, why shouldn't I share that knowledge?
<Takyoji> By the way, are there "todo lists" in terms of what should be worked on? Such as with the Ubuntu wiki, etc
<mr_steve> I think some of the various teams keep todo lists on the wiki, but otherwise it'd just be the bugs/blueprints on launchpad
<Takyoji> otherwise out of curiosity; what packages have you maintained?
<mr_steve> I haven't gotten any new packages into the official repos yet, but I do maintain a patched version of f-spot that doesn't screw up timestamps
<mr_steve> that was the one that got me started. I also have a few version-bumped packages in my PPA, like the Gourmet recipe manager
<_diablo> is that what maintained means? I thought that meant like contributing code and stuff.
<mr_steve> Nah, package maintainers just keep the packages up-to-date within Ubuntu/Debian whatever. Although a fair number of maintainers are also the authors of the software
<_diablo> ah, fair enough
<mr_steve> so Takyoji, you mentioned something about getting a more useful bot in this channel; has there ever been any talk about that before?
<Takyoji> Minimal; I can't remember what was previously suggested as potential features
<Takyoji> I think it may have been discussed last meeting
<mr_steve> Ah I don't recall if it was or not. Only reason I ask is because I've started using supybot in the channel for my BBS, and it's reasonably awesome.
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> Supybot was the primary consideration
<mr_steve> Yeah, it's nice, and easy to write new plugins for. If we ever talk about it again in the meeting or something I can easily demo it, since it's already installed and running on my server
<mr_steve> oh, heh, the meeting's supposed to be tonight, isn't it? Time flies
<Takyoji> yea
<Takyoji> Heh; World of Goo is quite interesting
<Takyoji> I'll definitely have to buy the Linux version
<Takyoji> Ooo, I wonder if 10.04 will actually have a non-buggy PulseAudio implementation! :P
<mr_steve> Wouldn't that be nice
<mr_steve> I've actually been reasonably happy with it, except that moving a playing stream between sinks gives me chipmunks-audio
<mr_steve> That and getting mpd to work without a user logged in requires a virgin sacrifice
<Takyoji> And so I just bought World of Goo..
<Takyoji> All my time is going to be horridly stolen from me now. xP
<Takyoji> Interesting; only 63MB
<Takyoji> Although it is just 2D
<Obsidian1723> So..question..anyone have any thoughts on the purchasing of Sun Microsystems Inc by Oracle? I use both OpenOffice.org and MySQL, not sure about the fate of either one right now. Any thoughts?
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-02-02
<Takyoji> I'm not sure of there really being a "fate" either
<Takyoji> I noticed that Web of Trust is apparently advocating the "Save MySQL" petition
<Obsidian1723> hmmmmm ok
<Obsidian1723> Kinda scary.. Oracle owns MySQL, Siebel, Java, OpenOffice.org and quite a few other things as well. They are the "Microsoft" of the database world right now.
<Takyoji> yea
<Takyoji> The only remaining competitor is PostgreSQL supposedly
<Obsidian1723> yeah...unless someone comes up with something new.
<Obsidian1723> My main concern right now is OpenOffice, as I use that more often.
<Takyoji> I also use OpenOffice
<Takyoji> just would be interesting to see more active of development (in terms of an end user)
<Obsidian1723> yeah
<Takyoji> It feels like one of the big project that doesn't get much love
<Takyoji> It'll be interesting what will come of the GUI recreations for Blender and OpenOffice
<Obsidian1723> nopers... maybe that will change, but Oracle now has StarOffice, and they may push that more... just like they may push tr MySQL.heir Oracle datab ase and their own version of Linux ove
<Obsidian1723> nopers... maybe that will change, but Oracle now has StarOffice, and they may push that more... just like they may push trheir Oracle database and their own version of Linux over MySQL
<Obsidian1723> fixed typos
<Takyoji> ahh
<_diablo> is there any way to grep for a file without a certain extension? e.g. looking for all media files not type .ogg
<Takyoji> ls | grep "search query"
<Takyoji> ?
<Takyoji> otherwise that would be just of one folder
<_diablo> more like ls|cat > foo.txt .... then grep -n foo.txt ogg
<_diablo> but the opposite
<Takyoji> Oh, anything that's NOT ogg.
<_diablo> yeah, exactly
<Takyoji> I know the regular expressions for a not is something like [^not-this]+
<Takyoji> Erm; that's not exactly it..
<tonyyarusso> Howdy folks!
<tonyyarusso> Shall we meeting it up a bit?
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, indeed
<tonyyarusso> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MinnesotaTeam/MeetingAgenda , as always - feel free to add to it if you have something in mind.
<tonyyarusso> CosmicPizza_, exigraff, h00k, jenkinbr, kermit, mr_steve, ripps, sparklehistory, Takyoji, zomGreg: meeting ping
<h00k> Greetings.
<h00k> slash meetingpong
<tonyyarusso> :)
<sparklehistory> hi
<tonyyarusso> I thought we should start with Ubuntu Hour discussion, since that seems to have the most traction.
<h00k> pong, ACK, whichever we prefer.
<tonyyarusso> Is there anyone who wasn't present for our previous discussions of it or still has questions about the concept?
<tonyyarusso> Seeing none, we'll move on.
<h00k> I have some tri-fold brochures that I made up for the Karmic Release Party that might be easily tweakable for handing out, if this helps.
<h00k> tonyyarusso: you may remember these
<tonyyarusso> So we've discussed a bit over the last few months, but nothing has actually been put down on paper yet.  I'd like to change that this week.
<tonyyarusso> h00k: yeah, those are nifty.
<tonyyarusso> h00k: Note that if handing out flyers you may need to check with the venue mgmt, depending on the place.
<h00k> tonyyarusso: correct.
<_diablo> Takyoji, locate /home/foo/|grep "\.ogg$" | sed s/ogg$//g
<tonyyarusso> I'll start by saying that personally my days are rather open at the moment, although my schedule may get a bit more defined starting March 1st.  In the meantime, I'm thinking Thursday afternoons at either the Caribou Coffee at Snelling and B in Roseville or the Barnes & Noble across the street in Har Mar will be my weekly hangout.
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, I think mr_steve and I are going to do an ubuntu hour downtown mpls on friday
<tonyyarusso> anyone else in that vicinity?
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: sweet - any locations in mind?
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, mr_steve is looking into that. we're thinking a small coffee shop by mctc by the 16 line
<tonyyarusso> ah, cool
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: btw, the place I'd be headed after mine on Thursday is MCTC, so if you ever want to do a Thursday over there that could work for me as well.
<tonyyarusso> sparklehistory: either of those plausible for you to join in on?
<tonyyarusso> any outstate ones in the works from h00k or Takyoji ?
<h00k> tonyyarusso: I'm drawing up plans for one in Superior at a local coffee shop called Red Mug
<tonyyarusso> excellent
 * Takyoji tries to pulls his attention away from World of Goo gameplay
<sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: I could possibly do the one out by you depending on what time you were thinking
<h00k> perhaps an hour on a weekend (saturday/sunday) where I can get some homework done, also.
<tonyyarusso> sparklehistory: I have a lull between classes, so about 3:30 to 5:30, possibly with half an hour lopped off either end for food.
<Takyoji> Prompting if I've attempted to start an Ubuntu Hour in my area?
<sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: I get done with class at 3 so 3:30 would work for me.
<tonyyarusso> sparklehistory: okay.  Do you have any preference between B&N (cheap, all ports open on the wifi) and CC (purchase required, non-web ports blocked)?
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: yeah
<Takyoji> If I had someone else in the area to assist I most likely would
<sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: uh, not really?  Perhaps B&N would be better from that description but it doesn't make a difference to me.
<tonyyarusso> You don't need assistance - you just need to sit there! :P
<tonyyarusso> sparklehistory: 'k
<_diablo> sorry, i was disconnected
<jenkinbr> :O
<jenkinbr> meeting :)
<jenkinbr> sorry i walked in late
<jenkinbr> wasn't connected yet
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Plan to start just by sitting around with a stock theme so people notice.  If you want to upgrade to handing out material and talking to people you can do that when ready.
<tonyyarusso> although at least having a couple of live CDs for people who ask would be A Good Idea
<jenkinbr> tonyyarusso, +1
<h00k> I concur.
<jenkinbr> always have the liveCD's handy
<h00k> I'll probably have documentation on the MN LoCo and WI LoCo since I'm on the border between WI and MN, basically
<jenkinbr> probably a few of each flavor, if you can muster it
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, will you be talking to people unprompted?
<_diablo> and will you be using your computer?
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: not to start at least.  I'll be chillin' with my netbook.
<Takyoji> I always have a LiveCD on hand; pretty much anywhere I go. xP
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, so you'll be using your computer, or just have it facing out towards people
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: using
<tonyyarusso> Enable a few desktop effects, do some nifty multi-tasking, make the people behind you double-take :)
<h00k> desktop cube works nicely
<_diablo> okay, fair enough, I'm just worried that people won't ask. I use my computer all the time and no one does that :-/
<_diablo> cube and wobbly windows
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: you may be right.  We can adjust as people are comfortable.
<tonyyarusso> I have a lot of people ask at school, but not in general public.
<_diablo> same.
<tonyyarusso> Do what you're willing to try, see what happens, adjust as appropriate - there aren't strict rules other than "don't piss off the venue".
<jenkinbr> lol
<_diablo> lol
<tonyyarusso> Okay, so it sounds like we have a St. Paul, a Mpls, a Duluth, and maybe something south at least.  That's a decent start.
<tonyyarusso> So what I'd like to see with each of those is:
<tonyyarusso> 1)  Finalize your plan.
<tonyyarusso> 2)  Announce it on the mailing list
<tonyyarusso> 3)  Uh, do it.
<tonyyarusso> 4)  Report how it went
<tonyyarusso> 5)  Repeat!
<tonyyarusso> Sound good?
<Takyoji> So when approximately would the meeting start? I have some ideas to throw on the agenda
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: hrm?  We're meetinging right now - go ahead and add them to the bottom.
<h00k> deal.
<h00k> tonyyarusso: although mine might be technically in WI, depending on where I go
<tonyyarusso> Lastly on that topic, I've started poking around with some ideas of web site publicity for this, namely adding them to our calendar and hopefully adding them to a map as well, so people can find one near them.
<tonyyarusso> h00k: right
<tonyyarusso> Calendar is easy, but I could use a volunteer to do a little more research into the Geo Drupal modules - I've installed a few, but need you to poke around with them a bit and see what's the best fit for what we need.
<tonyyarusso> Can I get someone willing to do that?
<tonyyarusso> don't all jump up at once now :P
<jenkinbr> I'm not entirely sure what we want to do with them, but I can poke around when I have a few spare minutes if someone is willing to fill me in.
<h00k> tonyyarusso: can I ask who actually purchased the domain name?
<tonyyarusso> jenkinbr: all right, I can try to explain what I'm thinking later.
<tonyyarusso> h00k: Me.
<h00k> tonyyarusso: that's what I thought, okay.
<tonyyarusso> Just renewed it too.
<tonyyarusso> all right, next up
<tonyyarusso> This next one was actually Takyoji's idea.
<tonyyarusso> Something about if people would like to put down on paper that they're willing to do such and such amount of work each week, from what I gather.
<tonyyarusso> To me it sounded a bit like the 5-a-day effort, which has been rather successful in the bug world.
<tonyyarusso> Care to explain more Takyoji ?
<Takyoji> Hold on, I'll just copy/paste what I was writing on the page
<Takyoji> "Set a general goal of what each participating user should accomplish. Mostly in regards of how much time taken. For example, at least 5 hours of volunteer work before the next monthly meeting. Anything from packaging, bug reporting/fixing, marketing materials, documentation, writing content (for the website, for Spread Ubuntu, etc)."
<Takyoji> and when I say a goal, I mean overall perhaps.
<Takyoji> This would be to have people potentially more active with contributing, people could be asking on the channel for help or ideas of what to do, which would help increase discussion on this channel a little bit more
<_diablo> yeah, that would be good
<tonyyarusso> So would this be basically a bragging rights thing, like Launchpad karma?
<Takyoji> Generally
<Takyoji> unless if we can think of more incentive for it somehow
<h00k> LoCo Karma of sorts?
<tonyyarusso> interesting
<h00k> gold stars from tonyyarusso!
<Takyoji> it would also be nice to have a "bookkeeper"/"secretary"
<Takyoji> Whereas that person would be who everyone would report to
<_diablo> Takyoji, I will be willing to do that
<Takyoji> And if they don't hear from someone, they can be the one to remind them
<_diablo> I'm an econ major, so I like spreadsheets
<tonyyarusso> You know, I actually came across a few drupal modules for timekeeping and "upvoting" users - they could be useful for this.  ie, "oh hei, I did 6 hours of work this month, including A, B, and C!", "tonyyarusso likes this"
<tonyyarusso> That would allow people to be their own secretary - just submitting directly to the database.
<Takyoji> thus having someone reminding people would be a nice thing to keep people on task, and put people in more of a mindset of contributing, rather than just doing it once and forgetting about it
<Takyoji> ahh
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: spreadsheets boo, RDMS yay!
<Takyoji> A few other interesting ideas would be to consider if we should find other collaborative tools, like Google Wave, for contributing content for the website or something
 * mr_steve reads the scrollback...
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: so I can talk to you about figuring out that kind of infrastructure and the reminding bit?  Could you also do a writeup of the concept and post to the mailing list?  (probably want to note that we're not requiring time - just letting people gloat about it)
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Wave is silly until it's non-private.
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, I can make it effectively non-private
<_diablo> I have something like 40 invites I can hand out
<tonyyarusso> Well, I still think it's silly in general, but at least non-useful until then :P
<Takyoji> there's also Etherpad, but then that might be too simple
<Takyoji> and yay, I actually had a reasonable idea for once!
<tonyyarusso> Even if we have invites _diablo, I don't think most people want to sign up for yet another service.  This is why I'm working on making our web site use Launchpad OpenID as the primary authentication.
<Takyoji> My life is now complete.
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, okay, fair enough. although I do think that everyone that uses linux probably has a google account
<tonyyarusso> maybe
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, and I can maintain things and be the annoying person checking up on others, but as far as setting up a web infrastructure, I will be less than useless
<tonyyarusso> Okay, so between Takyoji and _diablo we'll hope to see an Action Item on that completed before next month and we can get a report then on what comes next.
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: ah, noted.
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: I can do the actual installing and stuff - you'd be more telling people how to use it and checking the results.
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, I'm cool with that
<tonyyarusso> Okay, next up is the t-shirt thing.
<tonyyarusso> The update on that is that there's some interest, but not a ton (the survey so far has 10 shirts, I think 7 or 8 people, as interest expressed).
<tonyyarusso> I think it would be wise to try to talk about it a bit more before doing anything, and what we really need is someone to just mention it a few times on the mailing list, solicit ideas, and try to get people excited about the concept.
<tonyyarusso> Basically we got responses from the people who have come on IRC, but nobody else.  I think that's because we basically just thrust a survey e-mail on the list with no background at all, so people we're a bit surprised by it.
<tonyyarusso> Would someone like to step up to look after the follow-up on that, getting people excited about having branded shirts to wear around and have for group events and such?
<tonyyarusso> This one's just writing a few e-mails - no real work required at this point, so it's low-hanging fruit for someone who hasn't volunteered for anything yet.
<mr_steve> What're we talking about here, just sort of a "Hey, we're thinking about ordering t-shirts, what does everyone think?" or what?
<tonyyarusso> mr_steve: kind of like that, but less open-ended.  Don't just ask totally to the blue - be a salesman.
<mr_steve> heh, that's never been my strong suit, just ask RadioShack :)
<tonyyarusso> It's a bandwagon mentality thing.  If people think it's exciting and popular, it will be.  If they think it's just one guy posting a totally open question, it will be.
<tonyyarusso> You can always write up your message in Gobby and have people here comment on it before sending if you'd like.
<Takyoji> How about: a couple of us interested in the idea get together (just IRC though) and just discuss it further into details
<mr_steve> Here's where I'm at with this: If no one else steps up, I'll take a crack at it, and I'll definitely write something up and discuss it here first for some improvements
<tonyyarusso> That would work as well, as long as there are actually two or more people on paper as interested in following up.
<tonyyarusso> So if Takyoji and mr_steve would like to coordinate with follow-up, we're good to go.
<mr_steve> Works for me, Takyoji?
<Takyoji> Works for me as well
<tonyyarusso> cool
<tonyyarusso> The last thing I see on here is starting to talk about Lucid release events.
<tonyyarusso> I basically just wanted to get this on everyone's radar, and open if for any ideas people may already have, and get you thinking about it if you don't.
<h00k> I'm going to talk with the Wi LoCo about getting perhaps a few around the state happening.
<h00k> and maybe I'll make a trip over the bridge to MN for one
<tonyyarusso> Release is scheduled for Thursday, 29 April, which means events could be that evening, the evening of Friday 30 April, all day Saturday 1 May, and/or afternoon/evening Sunday 2 May.
<mr_steve> All I've got on the subject is that if something is set up, with a large enough venue, I'm willing & able to put up flyers at my school
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, I'll attend an event. I will also post flyers at my school
<_diablo> (UMN)
<tonyyarusso> For the Twin Cities I strongly suspect we'll have access to TIES again, which gives us room for quite a few people.
<tonyyarusso> As for flyers, the important thing is to start early.  We need to finalize dates/times/locations in time to send that info to System76, who will in turn print and mail us nice half-sheet flyers for FREE, which we can then put up at schools, coffee shops, etc.
<Takyoji> Ooo
<mr_steve> Awseome
<tonyyarusso> But, printing and mailing takes time (a week or two iirc), and putting up takes a couple of weeks, and then they should be up in time to give people a few weeks notice as well.
<Takyoji> As a sidenote; how about the nice little Ubuntu stickers? :P
<Takyoji> "Powered by Ubuntu"
<mr_steve> Definitely have to start as early as possible with fliers, since I have no idea what the posting approval process at MCTC is like
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, we can get those too.  I have probably 75 still even now.
<Takyoji> Could get some of those as well; and bring them to the installfest infact, if anyone wants any
<Takyoji> Ooo
<h00k> Takyoji: those are also provided by System76 if you're interested in being a "System76'er" they will send a bunch
<h00k> I have approx 75 or so left, also
<h00k> Also superkeys (generally the windows logo key)
<tonyyarusso> Most schools you just have to find someone in the Student Life office (or similar) and get them to stamp it.  It's pretty quick, but needs doing.  Driving around to schools, coffee shops, community centers, libraries, and actually walking around posting them takes time though.
<_diablo> mr_steve, at least at UMN, you can just post stuff. ppl tear it down eventually, but there's not really a policy
<tonyyarusso> I really really really want to see *5* release events for Lucid.  Northeast, Northwest, West Metro, East Metro, and South should *all* have at least one.
<mr_steve> Yeah, MCTC requires a stamp from Student Life, which presumably is just a drop-in affair, but they could be busy and have a backlog, I dunno
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, do we have a large enough populace for that? and location
<tonyyarusso> h00k, ripps: This would be a good time to give that school from last time a ring btw.
<_diablo> I assume we want at least 10 ppl at each event
<h00k> tonyyarusso: good call, in Duluth, yeah.
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: Even 4 people is a party.
<_diablo> aight
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: but properly advertised I think we do.  We've been terrible at getting the word out before because we've always started too late.  Talking about it now, we can make it happen if people put in the effort.
<h00k> and encourage people of all ages, sexes, experiences
<tonyyarusso> Remember that they don't all have to be highly organized things like the one at TIES.  h00k's dinner / drinks thing was great, and totally low-key to organize.
<h00k> Also, optional alcoholic drinks, make sure it's not limited to some place that might be restrictive of drinks
<tonyyarusso> right
<tonyyarusso> We'll get into location details more in the future, but start thinking about it.
<tonyyarusso> Any other things people want to mention in our last 5 minutes here?
<h00k> My name is Anthony, and I love Ubuntu.
<_diablo> My name is Marcos, and I don't mind Ubuntu.
<Takyoji> :P
<_diablo> eh, it's sadly true.
<_diablo> but I do love GNU/Linux
<Takyoji> Anyone in the general south-ish/central area, I'd be willing to attend
<mr_steve> My name is steve, and I haven't run a non-free O/S (on bare hardware) in 180 consecutive days :)
<jenkinbr> My name is Brian and I cuddle up every night with an Ubuntu Bear!!!!
<_diablo> mr_steve, yay!
<jenkinbr> OK, maybe not THAT extream...
<jenkinbr> but I still love Ubuntu
<Takyoji> Ooo, Ubuntu bear
<_diablo> I actually do have a plush Tux >.<
<jenkinbr> wait, shouldn't it be a tux?
<jenkinbr> lol
<jenkinbr> :)
<mr_steve> Seriously though, I missed the Ubuntu Hour part of the meeting, so _diablo, if you've got a few minutes after we wrap up, we can hammer out some details
<_diablo> I'll take him to Ubuntu Hour mr_steve
<Takyoji> Man; we should be merchandising all types of stuff at these LoCos. :P
<_diablo> yeah, sounds good man
<Takyoji> Shirts, stickers, stuffed Tux, etc. :P
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: That would be fun :)
<jenkinbr> well, I'm out
<jenkinbr> gotta make a phone call
<tonyyarusso> Thanks for coming everybody!  That went well.
<tonyyarusso> Feel free to keep chatting as usual of course.
<Takyoji> If I make up some money, I may actually be willing to follow-through with such an idea. :P
<mr_steve> It's always a blast, hopefully I can start attending the entire meeting, eventually. got a 1yr old boy here, makes scheduling difficult
<_diablo> mr_steve, yeah, I understand that.
<_diablo> mr_steve, Friday at what time? also, have you looked into coffee places around mctc?
<mr_steve> _diablo: I'm out of class at 11:40, so anytime after that is cool. I'm looking for places near the 16 route now, probably in the vincinity of the hennipen light rail station?
<_diablo> mr_steve, sounds good.
<mr_steve> It's actually on my way home, so it works well for me to meet you somewhere in that area
<_diablo> mr_steve, I'm available from 12:15 to 4:40
<_diablo> can be over there by 12:30 at the latest
<_diablo> mr_steve, do you text? it might be good to be able to coordinate that way
<_diablo> as we get closer to friday
<_diablo> 920.345.6775
<mr_steve> I do text. I don't have a phone though, just google voice, so I can't always reply right away
<mr_steve> 612.293.9460
<_diablo> ah, fair. <3 gVoice. I'm using that one too
<mr_steve> So I'm kind of at a toss-up between a Dunn Bros or this Ambrosia Coffee place, 430 1st Ave N #101
<_diablo> I lean towards ambrosia, but we can figure out if it sucks when we get there
<mr_steve> Yeah I try to stay away from the chains, myself. Let's tentatively plan for Ambrosia, and maybe I'll bring the map of alternates along
<mr_steve> And I'll have a phone in a couple weeks once I get my loan money, that'll make planning things a bit easier I imagine
<_diablo> probably
<mr_steve> _diablo: I almost forgot, but I also wanted to go over the format a little bit here. I'm thinking this first one at least will be very informal, we won't talk to the management, keep it low key, get a feel for what we're doing
<mr_steve> Yanno, just sit and talk Ubuntu and see if anyone nearby gets curious
<mr_steve> sound good to you?
<_diablo> sounds great
<ripps> dang, I missed the meeting, didn't I?
<_diablo> I'll partition my hard drive and set up an ubuntu boot
<_diablo> ripps, yeah
<ripps> Why did the meeting have to be during House?
<mr_steve> I'll just have my netbook most likely, so I won't be able to show off the eye candy. Maybe I'll drag the laptop along too, we'll see. 12:30, 13:00, something like that?
<_diablo> yeah. I'll be there right around 120
<_diablo> s/120/1230
<mr_steve> Alrighty then, I'm gonna wander off and do some more homewerk, keep in touch
<_diablo> yup
<mr_steve> btw, is anyone runnin lucid yet? I'm considering updating at least one of my machines to check it out.
<_diablo> mr_steve, I have a virtualbox that's going fine
<Takyoji> I feel like the insane maniac to dual-boot it on my 9.10 desktop
<Takyoji> although if I were to use it primarily; then there wouldn't be as much of an isolation factor than when using it in Virtualbox (in terms of reproducability and other factors perhaps)
<Takyoji> I guess I probably should though
<mr_steve> I might give it a shot on my netbook to see if it fixes the crash I get with my wireless drivers. Tho it'll probably just make it worse...
<_diablo> mr_steve, probably, but won't hurt (more than 6 hours) to try
<mr_steve> exactly
<Takyoji> Anyone know how to checkout code from a code branch on Launchpad?
<Takyoji> I'm compelled to poke at the loco-directory projects perhaps
<Takyoji> project*
<mr_steve> Takyoji: bzr clone <branch-url>
<mr_steve> I think, it's been a while
<mr_steve> ahha, actually bzr branch lp:loco-directory
<mr_steve> that should create your own local branch, which you can then edit, commit, etc, and eventually send a merge-request if you have changes you want to contribute
<Takyoji> Something that would be useful to be done in regards of the Spread Ubuntu project or something would be to have various statistics (facts though, not necessarily percentages that deal with users or probability) that could be used in marketing materials
<Takyoji> Like a record of contributors, code, all the projects it comprises of, etc
<Takyoji> Leaving for the night
<Takyoji> I suppose I have a reasonable suggestion: We should also keep record of meeting minutes as well
<mr_steve> Takyoji, that'd probably be nice. We have the logs, but concise minutes would definitely be more useful
<Takyoji> It would pretty much almost just be "answering" the agenda
<mr_steve> Yeah, basically.
<mr_steve> Someone could probably just do it after the fact, from the logs
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-02-03
<mr_steve> Hm, if we ever get a supybot in this channel, I bet the todo list plugin would be great for meeting agendas
<Takyoji> Gah, I have yet to write a profile page for my account on the Ubuntu Wiki
<mr_steve> me too. I think I started to, but never finished it
<Takyoji> Just finished World of Goo
<_diablo> Takyoji, how was it? I've only played the demo, but I enjoyed that
<Takyoji> The music is beautiful; the story is interesting/random (thus considerably a light laugh occasionally as well), and it's actually not too hard
<_diablo> yeah, if it weren't proprietary, I'd be all over it
<Takyoji> There's also the alternate realm where you can just go ahead and build various things with the Goo as well
<_diablo> Takyoji, yeah, I tried that, but it didn't like my interwebs connection for sharing
<Takyoji> ahh
<_diablo> do you know where a good place would be to learn about connecting to a wireless network via CLI would be?
<_diablo> the ones that I've tried haven't really worked
<mr_steve> I can give you a quick primer
<mr_steve> I don't know why there's no good CLI interface to NetworkManager, I'm gonna have to get around to writing one someday. But doing it by hand just takes a few commands, really
<_diablo> mr_steve, I tried the ifconfig, iwlist, iwconfig, dhclient approach, but it didn't work. I used the approach here: http://www.ghacks.net/2009/04/14/connect-to-a-wireless-network-via-command-line/
<_diablo> I have a broadcom card and am using the STA driver in case that matters
<mr_steve> _diablo, was there any security on the network you were trying to connect to?
<_diablo> mr_steve, yes. I tried it with wpa, and obviously I would need to figure out wpa-supplicant, so I changed it to wep, but that didn't work either
<mr_steve> okay, yeah that article you linked to lies about wpa, but you know that already.
<_diablo> mr_steve, #fedora just recommended I use cnetworkmanager
<_diablo> mr_steve, yeah, I know :)
<mr_steve> There is one thing missing from that guide that I seem to always have to do
<_diablo> what's that?
<mr_steve> After doing the iwconfig wlan0 essid "whatever", I usually seem to need to do iwconfig wlan0 ap auto before it will associate
<_diablo> hmmmm
<_diablo> okay, I'll add that to my list and try it
<mr_steve> seems at least with some drivers setting the essid just tells the card which network it should be a part of, but ap needs to be set or auto for it to actually connect to an individual ap
<mr_steve> since although it's a rare setup, there can be more than on BSSID for a given ESSID. Like for roaming between APs
<mr_steve> Thanks for reminding me about cnetworkmanager, too. It's not in the repos, I should try and roll up a .deb over the weekend
<mr_steve> ah it's written in python. pythoncentral fun, yay. I'll probably have a .deb in my PPA soonish
<_diablo> it's in the fedora repos ;)
<mr_steve> Yup. Heh, I keep forgetting you're not an ubuntuholic like I am :)
<_diablo> not at all. ubuntu annoys me more often than I enjoy it. but I still give it to people like the cig companies do with their cigarettes.
<mr_steve> haha, nice.
<_diablo> brb, I'm gonna try ratpoison wireless
<_diablo> mr_steve, does 128 vs 64 WEP matter?
<_diablo> for iwconfig I mean
<mr_steve> _diablo, not sure. I think iwconfig figures it out based on the key length. Are you providing the key as hexadecimal digits?
<_diablo> mr_steve, I was going to use the s: switch
<_diablo> brb, going to try this for real now
<Takyoji> Anyone know of FreeNX?
<mr_steve> Takyoji, I've heard of, but never used it. Supposed to be an X server for Win32, innit?
<mr_steve> well folks if anyone's interested there's now a package for cnetworkmanager in my PPA. I'm ~smcgrath23 on launchpad.
<mr_steve> I've been playing with it a bit and it seems to be working, and pretty decent to use
<Takyoji> I take it that you packaged it?
<mr_steve> Takyoji, yup. I'm gonna try to clean it up a little more and get it into the repos, since there's already a needs-packaging bug for it
<Takyoji> ahh
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: So you're volunteering to write up minutes, right?  :)
<Takyoji> I may be willing to in fact
<Takyoji> Is there some form of a list or a method to find projects that need a package maintainer?
<_diablo> Takyoji, not that I know of, sorry, I'd ask on #ubuntu
<tonyyarusso> The better place to ask would be the MOTU mailing list.
<_diablo> or that
<Takyoji> Mark of the Unicorn? :D
<Takyoji> Someone should tweak the wiki page for MOTU
<Takyoji> (on Wikipedia)
<Takyoji> otherwise I know what you mean; Masters of the Universe
<Takyoji> Leaving for the night
<_diablo> nn
<mr_steve> tonyyarusso, is it possible for us to get a project cloak on freenode? Dunno if freenode actually considers us a project?
 * mr_steve is updating the netbook to lucid...
<kermit> i think freenode would be happy to do that
<kermit> mr_steve:
<mr_steve> yeah, they probably would. There's not really too much point to it, but hey, why not?
<h00k> I think I just had an Ubuntu Hour with my barber.
<_diablo> haha, really? were you convincing?
<h00k> _diablo: I...think so, yeah
<h00k> I wasn't really trying to convince, I just asked him questions he had about it
<h00k> "why is it safer," things like that
<_diablo> that's good
<_diablo> and those kinds of relaxed conversations are what we need
<_diablo> often just saying the word is 50% of the battle. get it in their heads so when they hear it again, they're more receptive
<h00k> he asked my major, and it sort of went from there
<h00k> we covered a broad range of topics
<h00k> from mobile phones and their trends, how silly the ipad is,
<_diablo> lol
<h00k> bah, what was the last message?
<h00k> I'm trying to fix my irssi
<_diablo> <h00k> he asked my major, and it sort of went from there
<_diablo> <h00k> we covered a broad range of topics
<_diablo> <h00k> from mobile phones and their trends, how silly the ipad is,
<_diablo> <_diablo> lol
<_diablo> * h00k has quit (Quit: breaking things)
<_diablo> * h00k (~anthonyrh@unaffiliated/h00k) has joined #ubuntu-us-mn
<_diablo> <h00k> bah, what was the last message?
<_diablo> <h00k> I'm trying to fix my irssi
<_diablo> brb
<h00k> hah, okay.,
<Takyoji> Woo, nobody's acknowledging my existence on #ubuntu-motu
<Takyoji> With a total of 216 users
<Takyoji> (I asked a question and got no answer on that channel; while others are blabbing)
<_diablo> back
<_diablo> Takyoji, can you repeat? I didn't see your question
<Takyoji> Someone just answered it now; I was asking of reasonable materials for getting involved with packaging
<_diablo> ah
<Takyoji> Otherwise I'm glad to see conversation going on in this channel
<mr_steve> Hey h00k, do you happen to have any idea why my 'unaffiliated' cloak has a bunch of crap at the end and yours doesn't?
<h00k> 16:35 mr_steve <steve@unaffiliated/mr-steve/x-2535065>
<h00k> good question
<h00k> I have no idea, actually
<h00k> check #freenode
<mr_steve> yeah I'll have to bug the staff again I guess. Would you mind checking my WHOIS and seeing if it's at least hiding my hostname? It still shows when I WHOIS myself
<_diablo> * [mr_steve] (steve@unaffiliated/mr-steve/x-2535065): Steve McGrath
<_diablo> * [mr_steve] #ubuntu-us-mn
<_diablo> * [mr_steve] hubbard.freenode.net :Pittsburgh, PA, US
<mr_steve> ah thanks _diablo
<h00k> 16:35 mr_steve <steve@unaffiliated/mr-steve/x-2535065>
<h00k> 16:35  ircname  : Steve McGrath
<h00k> 16:35  channels : #ubuntu-us-mn
<h00k> 16:35  server   : hubbard.freenode.net [Pittsburgh, PA, US]
<h00k> 16:35  account  : mr_steve
<h00k> 16:35 End of WHOIS
<h00k> yeah, that's what I have
<mr_steve> Well I'm glad the cloak's working, even if it looks a little funky
<mr_steve> I was notcing a correlation between snort alerts on my firewall and the times spent hanging out in certain channels...
<mr_steve> aha. my cloak has the random numbers at the end because of the underscore in my nick. Guess I either gotta live with it or change my account name. Meh.
<Takyoji> Didn't know there was an Ubuntu Pastebin
<h00k> pastebin.ubuntu.com
<kermit> :/ i cant find my #ubuntu tab, someone say my nick in there
<kermit> n/m i got it
<Takyoji> That's right; I have yet to install Lucid Lynx yet
<Takyoji> of which I'll hopefully get done tonight
<h00k> I just finished setting up a dualboot on my lappy today
<Obsidian1723> NYou going to install that on a production box or a devel machine?
<Takyoji> My primary desktop
<Takyoji> I'll be sure that my work and so forth is properly backed up and so forth; in case if anything goes wrong
<Obsidian1723> Dang, Id never install Alpha or B eta on a primary box.
<Obsidian1723> Yeah, Remastersys works well for that.
<kermit> :( apt-get remove doestn actuallly remove the files for me
<kermit> and trying again it says the pacakges are removed, but they're still htere.. gigs in /usr/share/games
<kermit> i guess i can manually remove them, but i'm pretty sure apt-get was supposed to
<Takyoji> Which game(s)?
<Obsidian1723> --purge
<Obsidian1723> autoremove
<Obsidian1723> one of thse should do the trick
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-02-04
<mr_steve> I installed Lucid on my netbook today, seems to be working well except for some package conflicts
<Takyoji> I'm about to install Lucid right now on my desktop
<mr_steve> And my wireless hasn't OOPSd yet. Have to see what it does at school tommorrow before I call it fixed
<Takyoji> Gah, my LiveUSB isn't booting
<Takyoji> Used Unetbootin
<mr_steve> Hmm I've never used it
<mr_steve> I've only got experience with usb-creator
<Takyoji> That's what I'm going to try instead
<Takyoji> Random idea: Should also have a key signing party or something at some point
<Takyoji> or do such during an installfest
<mr_steve> Takyoji, that'd be cool. Neither of my keys have any sigs except my own
<Takyoji> I don't have mine signed either; I'm not even sure if I've even signed anything with it yet. xP
<mr_steve> I sign most of my emails, and I've signed the Ubuntu CoC, but that's about it. Mostly I just use pgp for encryption
<Takyoji> Gah; it still didn't boot my USB flash drive..
<Takyoji> I guess my BIOS saw it as a harddrive rather a removable medium..
<Takyoji> rather than a removable medium*
<Takyoji> Woo; graphical issues
<mr_steve> oh fun
<mr_steve> If by chance you've got a Radeon 7500 series in there, I can tell you what the problem is. Otherwise, no clue.
<Takyoji> I have an NVIDIA 8800GT
<Takyoji> I was using 10.04 on the LiveUSB
<Takyoji> and when I tried to restart, I had a messed and colorful CLI-format display
<Takyoji> Now let's wait in suspense as my harddrive partitions get massacred. :P
<mr_steve> I hate Ubuntu's partitioner. I'm never 100% certain what the options mean, and I hate the suspense and looming dread while it's resizing partitions.
<Takyoji> I understand it; I was just joking in the implication of using the daily build of 10.04
<mr_steve> oh yeah, I know what you're saying. The thing does creep me out though.
<Takyoji> Is the bootloader different in 10.04?
<mr_steve> Still grub2
<Takyoji> Erm
<Takyoji> After GRUB I mean..
<Takyoji> Not the bootloader
<mr_steve> oh, the splash screen? I think it is. Does 9.10 say "Ubuntu" or just have the logo? cuz 10.04 says "Ubuntu" and then the logo. Other than that it's the same
<Takyoji> For me it's a blue, skyblue, and white progress bar; like the one of Fedora
<mr_steve> Hmm.
<Takyoji> (CLI display)
<mr_steve> That's probably not a good thing...
<mr_steve> I've definitely not seen anything looking like that before
<Takyoji> Gah, I can't find a video of it
<Takyoji> Overall, I don't get the Ubuntu splash screen; until GDM
<Takyoji> This is the boot screen I'm talking about: http://www.techarena.in/files/image/guide/092009/install_fedora_11/3_fedora_boot_screen.JPG
<Takyoji> Just doesn't say Fedora
<Obsidian1723> Gentoo
<mr_steve> Eh?
<mr_steve> Just a wild guess, but maybe the Ubuntu xsplash theme is missing, and maybe that's what xsplash looks like unthemed
<Takyoji> It's supposedly called "Plymouth"
<mr_steve> Ah Plymouth, I forgot about that. Did you do a clean install? I upgraded from 9.10, so things are probably a little different
<Takyoji> Clean install; dual-booting with 9.10
<Takyoji> Apparently "jockey" isn't working properly as of installing the Nvidia drivers
<Obsidian1723> Beware the bad Karma of 9.10...
<Takyoji> which would be? :P
<mr_steve> Hm my netbook has plymouth installed, but I think it's broken. For the first 15-20 seconds I just have a blinking cursor, followed by a few seconds of xsplash, then GDM
<Takyoji> heh ahh
<Takyoji> otherwise I might file a bug report tomorrow (I'll run updates as well)
<mr_steve> Heh I just noticed lucid netbook remix brought back GDM's session selector, I can login to a full gnome desktop if I want, yay.
<Takyoji> heh
<Takyoji> I'm looking at the map on Launchpad and apparently my location has been removed
<Takyoji> Oh; I was looking at the old Launchpad group
<Obsidian1723> 9.10 is just a bit buggy is all.
<mr_steve> If anyone's got an Acer AOD250 netbook, it looks like BIOS 1.26 was just released, which supposedly fixes the CPU speed problem
<mr_steve> Finally gonna get my money's worth :)
<Takyoji> Ooo
<mr_steve> Pissed me off terribly having my CPU stuck at 1.33GHz when I paid an extra $50 for the 1.66
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> I guess there's a call for testers of the installation of ATI/NVIDIA drivers on a weekly basisi
<Takyoji> basis*
<Takyoji> for 10.04 I believe
<Takyoji> I'm just curious; how many mailing lists are all of you subscribed to?
<kermit> Takyoji: it depends what you mean by mailing list
<tonyyarusso> mr_steve, kermit: No, we are not a project by Freenode's definition.  We fall under the umbrella of the Ubuntu project, which does have a cloak.
<mr_steve> tonyyarusso: ah, I see. Heh I knew you'd reply when you got a chance. Ubuntu project cloaks only go to Ubuntu Members though, right?
<tonyyarusso> mr_steve: Correct.
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: 35 Ubuntu ones, plus a few outside of that realm.
<kermit> mr_steve: would a group cloak suffice?
<kermit> or, 'organization' cloak
<mr_steve> kermit: That's the same as a project cloak, isn't it? i.e. you have to belong to a group that freenode recognizes?
<kermit> mr_steve: i think so
<mr_steve> I'm content with my unaffiliated cloak, since I got it for security reasons.
<kermit> mr_steve: are you ircing from a top secret location?
<mr_steve> heh nope, I just started to notice that when I was joined to some of the larger and more chaotic channels, the volume of snort alerts on my firewall would increase...
<mr_steve> So I figure if my ip is hidden, the bored script-kiddie types will go bother someone else instead.
<kermit> hiding isnt really security
<mr_steve> no, it isn't at all. I trust my firewall for actual security. I just figure it takes me off the target list for whatever bored kids are randomly probing people they find on IRC
<mysteriousdarren> so what is the best config for a firewall?
<tonyyarusso> With the machines behind it unplugged.
<mr_steve> yep, air-gap. In all seriousness though, I'm pretty happy with pfSense for a firewall/router
<mysteriousdarren> well obviously it needs to be plugged in....
<mr_steve> Well, the "best config" doesn't really exist. It largely depends on your needs.
<mysteriousdarren> where can i get air-gap? im looking to secure a lan, and wanted a firewall for each computer. there will be four on the network
<mr_steve> Heh, that was a joke, "air-gap" meaning a gap between the network cable and computer.
<h00k> I had an impromptu Ubuntu Hour today!
<h00k> Granted, it was in Wisconsin
<tonyyarusso> yay
<tonyyarusso> who cares where it was?  it still counts.
<h00k> :D
<h00k> It was fun, anyway.
<h00k> I'm going to have another one this weekend in Superior
<tonyyarusso> sparklehistory and I are planning to hang out Thursday afternoon at a Barnes & Noble.
<mr_steve> And it looks like diablo and I are still on for Friday at Ambrosia Coffee downtown
<h00k> Nice, nice. I'll be at a coffee shop
<h00k> well, exigraff, myself, and Brittany
<Takyoji> I need to find minions in my area to carry out my devious deeds...
<mr_steve> When I can afford to I'll definitely have to get some stickers or shirts or something. And more blank CDs
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: yes, yes you do.
<mr_steve> Or better yet, some real pressed Ubuntu CDs
<h00k> Yeah, I should definitely get some CD's
<Takyoji> I'm going to bug nnonix to see if he has any suggestions for possible locations for an installfest
<Takyoji> If I can find an email address
<tonyyarusso> oh, I should probably install my DVD burner in my main desktop a burn a few - probably easier than doing it all on the nettop.
<tonyyarusso> Maybe I'll be able to reseat the front panel USB cable too and fix whatever the heck is up with that.
<Takyoji> For? Because otherwise I'd be willing to burn billions
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: for just having around during Ubuntu Hours in case anyone asks.
<Takyoji> ahh
<mr_steve> Yeah, I want to have some LiveCDs so if someone likes what they see I can just say "here, take it home and try it out!"
<tonyyarusso> Some day I'll win the lottery and get one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827196133
<mr_steve> Heh my old school had something kinda like that, but more ghetto
<mr_steve> It was just a SCSI cd-tower we used for various CDs shared over the LAN. But we swapped all the drives with burners
<tonyyarusso> These things are awesome - they burn all of them at once, multicasting to the burners.
<mr_steve> Yup
<Takyoji> hah, insane
<mr_steve> I would have loved having one of those at my last couple jobs
<Takyoji> Also, yes, I have LightScribe
<tonyyarusso> Some models have a hard drive bay too, so you can store your frequently-burned images.
<mr_steve> I once spent 2 days at work burning Vista install media.. No DVDs, it was like 4-5 CD iirc, whole bunch of copies
<mr_steve> they had to be labeled by hand with the product key too
<tonyyarusso> We skipped that step - just put the product key in a card at the front of each CD wallet.
<tonyyarusso> Then people could write it on a whiteboard and everyone else could copy off that.
<tonyyarusso> Having it on the CD is dumb anyway, since you can't read it while it's in the drive.
<mr_steve> Yeah, I dunno why I was told to put it on every single disc. I just about lost my mind
<h00k> I want to include a card with Ubuntu LiveCD's: CD KEY: "LOL-YOU-DONT-NEEDA-KEY"
<h00k> but I won't, don't worr
<h00k> y
<mr_steve> haha
<Takyoji> You should. :P
<Takyoji> I should even make a Lightscribe label of such. :P
<h00k> fancy!
<h00k> I bet a template exists.
<tonyyarusso> of course
<mr_steve> Takyoji: Has lightscribe gotten any better? I've got like a 1st-gen lightscribe burner and it takes ~45min to burn a label.
<Takyoji> I think it takes a little shorter than that for me
<Takyoji> otherwise I think someone should harass the mailing list by seeing if there's ANYONE in the south part of Minnesota (excluding the metro area)
<Takyoji> Everyone that's listed on the wiki in the south area is pretty much gone/inactive
<mr_steve> I should bother someone I know down in Mankato, he was an Ubuntu user last time I talked to him, and I think he's in school down there
<tonyyarusso> s/someone/YOUDANGNABBIT/
<Takyoji> And there's only two marks on the launchpad map
<Takyoji> Myself, and nnonix, whom I've never personally met
<Takyoji> I knew you were going to imply that I should
<Takyoji> But I'm just so innocent and am such a pansy to do so. :P
 * Takyoji wonders what he should set the email address alias as...
<Takyoji> Bright Happy Shining Ubuntu Users of Minnesota <ubuntu-us-mn@lists.ubuntu.com>? :P
<h00k> That sounds like how I address my emails to Ubuntu Wisconsin :(
<Takyoji> So when sending to the mailing list, plaintext is more preferred?
<tonyyarusso> yes
<h00k> Yeah....don't do what I do with blue text from gmail.
<tonyyarusso> Mailman will come to your house and kill you in your sleep.
 * Takyoji cowers in fear and locks his doors, and boards all windows
<tonyyarusso> It comes in through the internetz
<Takyoji> Would signing the message Be a Good Idea(TM), but not required?
<tonyyarusso> If you know how, sure
<mr_steve> Has anyone got any experience with trying to get a package into Ubuntu?
<tonyyarusso> yeah, I did kompozer.
<tonyyarusso> Some maintains it upstream in Debian now though.
<tonyyarusso> *someone
<mr_steve> Oh yeah? I just packaged cnetworkmanager. I kinda want to try and get it into the repos. There's already a needs-packaging bug for it
<tonyyarusso> That's a good first step.
<tonyyarusso> Then you'll need to add yourself to -universe-contributors, get approved, set up a REVU account, and get some MOTUs to review your work.
<tonyyarusso> Have them and lintian/linda point out your errors, fix, and repeat.
<tonyyarusso> Once it's good, two MOTUs will sign off on it, then one will upload it.
<Takyoji> Sent
<mr_steve> Aha. I thought it was something like that. I'll probably have some work to do on this package yet. It's a pycentral package, which is black magic to me.
 * Takyoji pokes tonyyarusso
<Takyoji> I switched between email addresses for my subscription to ubuntu-us-mn
<Takyoji> and sent the desired email, and it's pending review
<tonyyarusso> oh, k
<Takyoji> otherwise what of the user on the map that marked themself to be in Armenia? :P
<Takyoji> (which is in Europe)
<tonyyarusso> Default weirdness of some sort.
<Takyoji> Anyone even tried contacting them though?
 * Takyoji twitches with OCD
<tonyyarusso> nope
<Takyoji> For some reason I'm having graphical errors on occasion in XChat..
<Takyoji> Oh and, again; should remember to do key signing at an installfest; just minor thing to keep in mind
<Takyoji> It's sad when a channel of 183 users can be dead silent. :P
<tonyyarusso> WTF..."Miley's 9-year-old sister launching a lingerie line for kids"
<h00k> tonyyarusso: WHAT
<tonyyarusso> I'm not even sure if I can link to this....
<tonyyarusso> It's on MSN news.
<h00k> I...don't know if I believe this or not.
<h00k> I found the information on another site
<h00k> er...they're letting her do this?
<h00k> do they not understand...
<h00k> bah.
 * h00k inserts the book Brave New World
<h00k> and if you haven't read this book do it now.
<tonyyarusso> h00k: there are pictures!
<h00k> tonyyarusso: I saw that.
<h00k> tonyyarusso: I....yeah.
<h00k> silly society.
<tonyyarusso> So yeah, going to the optometrist to ask for new eyes tomorrow I guess.
<h00k> I'm pretty sure I want to unsee that.
<tonyyarusso> Why is it that every time I make *one* little change to a computer, before I know it my room is littered with components and tools?
<h00k> tonyyarusso: it happens. also, extra screws. EVERY TIME.
<tonyyarusso> haha, yeah
<tonyyarusso> I'm guessing that part of it is the fact that everything is packed in perfectly tight, so to get at anythign I have to unload all kinds of stuff.
 * Takyoji makes his devious unnoticed escape for the night
<_diablo> mr_steve: ping
<mr_steve> _diablo: pong :)
<mr_steve> How ya doin?
<_diablo> mr_steve: goood, I'm on ratpoison and chatting via a command line connect of wireless :)
<mr_steve> Awesome. What'd you end up doing to get the connection to work?
<_diablo> I tried using all the stuff you told me and followed some online sites but it wouldn't let me connect despite showing no errors. Even after setting up dhclient, I only got 404s
<_diablo> So I eventually just got lazy and am using cnetworkmanager
<mr_steve> heheh, I'm in love with cnetworkmanager now. I can't believe it's not in the default install
<mr_steve> Coincidently, I just submitted a cnetworkmanager package to REVU, so hopefully it'll be in Ubuntu's Universe soon
<_diablo> mr_steve: that's good. It just makes everything easier. I haven't tried it with WEP or WPA yet, but it's working fine on my unprotected network
<mr_steve> I'm excited/terrified, it's the first package I've ever submitted for review. I fully expect my first revision to get torn to shreds, but that's how we learn, eh?
<_diablo> mr_steve: exactly :) you'll have to show me how to do it on friday. I might actually become helpful to the community
<mr_steve> How do you like ratpoison, anyway? I keep meaning to give it a shot
<mr_steve> It'd make a surprising amount of sense on this netbook, I imagine
<_diablo> mr_steve: I think it'd be great for a netbook. I'm liking it so far. I'm going to try to use it for the next week or so and see what I think now
<_diablo> It's obviously very different. I've never used a tiling WM before
<mr_steve> netbook remix reminds me of ratpoison without the tiling features
<mr_steve> Every window is maximized and borderless by default
<_diablo> mr_steve: eh, sorta. I don't like that you can only have 1 window open at a time.
<_diablo> also, I don't like mice (obviously based on my WM of choice atm)
<mr_steve> eh, on netbook remix you can actually unmaximize a window, and have a couple windows side by side or whatever. It just rarely makes sense to do so at 1024x600
<tonyyarusso> mr_steve: yeah, you'll get torn to shreds about three times.  It's fun!
<mr_steve> Heh I used UNR for 3 weeks before I found out that I could unmaximize
<_diablo> mr_steve: ah, okay, I actually have NBR on my netbook. I just rarely use it unless I'm going on long trips
<mr_steve> tonyyarusso: well, my house is made of brick ;
<_diablo> is there any way (from the terminal) to get access to the prompt without killing the currently active process?
<mr_steve> I can take criticism, fortunately
<_diablo> C-c obvi doesn't work
<mr_steve> _diablo: C-z
<_diablo> mr_steve: ah, thx
<mr_steve> followed by "bg 1" or whatever number it shows, if you actually want the process to keep running
<_diablo> mr_steve: ping, can you still hear me?
<mr_steve> _diablo: sure can
<_diablo> cool, worked then :)
<_diablo> bg 1?
<mr_steve> yeah, when you suspend a process with Ctrl-Z, it should show "[1] Stopped <name>" or something
<mr_steve> the 1 is the job number, you use the command "bg 1" or "fg 1" to resume the job in either the background or foreground, respectively
<mr_steve> you can also run "jobs" to list any running jobs
<_diablo> mr_steve: yeah, it said that, but it appears to still be running (based on my still active connection)
<mr_steve> I suppose it depends on the program
<h00k> I love UNR :)
<_diablo> mr_steve: ah, I suppose cnetworkmanager is stopped now, but it doesn't matter because it's already connected
<mr_steve> _diablo, do you know about running "<your command> &" ? it starts the command in the background and returns to the prompt. Great for X startup scripts and such
<_diablo> mr_steve: yeah, I just forgot to do that when I started it >.<
<mr_steve> heh yeah, been there done that
<mr_steve> I have no rational explanation for why I'm still awake right now.. and yet not doing my homework
<_diablo> mr_steve: same. I'm supposed to write a draft of a paper for tomorrow
<mr_steve> I'm about half a page away from being done with an essay, due monday. I think I hate it
<_diablo> lol, mine is due at 10 am tomorrow
<_diablo> haven't started :-/
<mr_steve> no good
<mr_steve> This is my first college essay, it's been tricky. I've never had to write an essay without a clear assigned topic before
<_diablo> yeah, it's not fun
<_diablo> mr_steve: do you do any text-based browsing?
<mr_steve> yeah, I'm becoming more and more of a console junkie
<_diablo> do you know of any that are close to VIM?
<_diablo> I want to do that as well, but am having a hard time getting away from FFox with vimperator
<mr_steve> hm, no, but that would be nice, since I'm starting to understand vim finally
<mr_steve> I just tend to use w3m or elinks
<_diablo> mr_steve: yeah, I've been on elinks, and it's okay, but the lack of j/k movement is super annoying
<_diablo> w3m? I'll look at that one
<mr_steve> you can probably customize the bindings
<_diablo> that's a lot of work...
<mr_steve> I just checked, and hjkl work as expected in w3m :)
<_diablo> okay, I will try
<_diablo> mr_steve: well, damn, this has to be 3 pages of literary analysis. I'm just going to bed. I'll wake up and write this in the morning
<_diablo> sleep well
<mr_steve> 'night
<mr_steve> I just started using ratpoison on my netbook... It's interesting
<kermit> how do i remove a package without removing what claims to depend on it?
<tonyyarusso> --ignore-depends possibly
<tonyyarusso> That works for install at least
<kermit> tonyyarusso: that works, thanks!
<tonyyarusso> whee!
<Takyoji> I printed out 17 pages of the Debian New Maintainers' Guide (changed it to 9pt font, decreased margins and paragraph spacing; otherwise it would have been like 30-40 pages)
<Takyoji> We need to do more yet with the LoCo website..
<tonyyarusso> s/We/Takyoji/ :P
<Takyoji> What are the specifics YOU want then? :P
<Takyoji> For one thing; have a member list on there?
<Takyoji> and copy content to the website?
<Takyoji> (from the wiki)
<Takyoji> I'm ready to do slave work
<tonyyarusso> No, the member list should be Launchpad only.
<tonyyarusso> Hooking up the Google Calendar Agenda block module would be a good start
<tonyyarusso> and fixing the CSS so the bullets don't looks stupid
<Takyoji> anything else?
<kermit> tonyyarusso: so once you break dependancies, is there a way to make things stop complaining about them? heh
<tonyyarusso> kermit: nope
<Takyoji> Where is the repository for the website t?heme
<Takyoji> theme?*
<tonyyarusso> What do you mean by that exactly?
<tonyyarusso> oh, you could also teach me how to use bzr with launchpad properly
<Takyoji> Oh, nothing's been put in the repository for it at all..
<Takyoji> I was trying to checkout the code; but I was getting denied
<Takyoji> implying that it wasn't a branch
<Takyoji> I need the theme that's currently on the server
<Takyoji> of ubuntu-minnesota.org
 * Takyoji annoys tonyyarusso
<tonyyarusso> oh, righto
<tonyyarusso> I was going to upload a branch, but I didn't know how :)
<tonyyarusso> SO if you tell me how to push a branch, I will.
<Takyoji> https://help.launchpad.net/Code/UploadingABranch
<tonyyarusso> reading
<Takyoji> and the branch name supposedly is: lp:~ubuntu-minnesota/ubuntu-minnesota-projects/website
<tonyyarusso> No, not there...
<Takyoji> It's what the project page supposedly says: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-minnesota/ubuntu-minnesota-projects/website
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-minnesota/ubuntu-drupal-theme/minnesota-patches
<Takyoji> ahh
<tonyyarusso> (just did it)
<tonyyarusso> off to class again
<kermit> tonyyarusso: what school are you in?
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-02-05
<tonyyarusso> kermit: Metro State
<kermit> tonyyarusso: how do you pay for it? i was thinking of going.
<tonyyarusso> kermit: My parents do.  But, it's dirt cheap anyway, so it wouldn't be hard for anyone to.
<kermit> if there's still time left to work full time too it's cheap
<mr_steve> kermit: fwiw, I'm in school right now and paying nothing. Grants and loans, all the way
<kermit> mr_steve: enough to only have to work part time?
<kermit> mr_steve: er, you mean you have grants and loans that pay for school and living expenses?
<mr_steve> kermit: If I wanted to, I could afford an apartment with my leftover money. I got a subsidized loan for $7900 for this semester
<mr_steve> and my classes were already paid by grants, so only about 1,000 of that is going to the school, I get a check for the rest
<kermit> you could live on $14k/yr ?
<Takyoji> So I take it that Launchpad doesn't store images, or something?
<kermit> i dont think i could live on less than $40k no matter how hard i tried
<Takyoji> or were the images just not submitted?
<mr_steve> kermit: I've never made more than 12k/yr in my life
 * Takyoji annoys tonyyarusso again
<tonyyarusso> kermit: School costs about $7000 per year all-inclusive.  You can easily make that part-time.
<tonyyarusso> kermit: Saint Paul College was half that.
<kermit> tonyyarusso: i'd have to work full time to support myself though
<kermit> unless grants or loans were a lot more
<tonyyarusso> kermit: but you'd be eligible for financial aid.
<kermit> can you get 50k/yr of student loans?
<kermit> or less and work part time?
<kermit> or much less and work full time?
<tonyyarusso> uh, if you need 50k just to support yourself, you're doing it wrong
<_diablo> tonyyarusso: lolz
<kermit> 43k plus the tuition of 7k
<kermit> i havent lived on less than 50 in a decade
<kermit> can you work full time and still go to school?
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: huh wuh?
<kermit> or get loans for living expenses?
<tonyyarusso> and yes to both probably
<_diablo> kermit: it's tough. Not a fun experience
<Takyoji> It's missing some files of which I added to it
<kermit> _diablo: full time and school?   i bet
<kermit> i'm not sure where to start with the school thing.. google for 'college' and just start reading? heh
<_diablo> kermit: yeah, I couldn't do it.
<kermit> so i'd have to do part time work and get a lot of loans and grants
<_diablo> kermit: do you want to go to a local school on the uber cheap or do you wanna do a 4 year university with dorms and everything?
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-minnesota/ubuntu-drupal-theme/minnesota-patches/download/head%3A/iconbuycd.png-20090602010204-69572pizg5q9112i-43/icon-buycd.png - images are there.
<kermit> i'm comfortable where i live now, and it's close to several schools
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: what files?
<tonyyarusso> College is such a waste of time.  I could be learning if I didn't have class.
<_diablo> kermit: just google "twin city" colleges. Two of my roommates just started at MCTC and I'm sure they'd be cool if you wanted to email them and ask some questions. They looked around a lot.
<_diablo> tonyyarusso: that piece of paper is expensive, but probably worth it
<kermit> my roomate goes to mctc, but he gets money from sourcse i cant
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: Only because someone decided it is.  There's no real value to it.
<tonyyarusso> I would be a far more worthwhile employee in the future if I took this time to learn on my own.
<_diablo> tonyyarusso: I agree. but it has been decided.
<kermit> _diablo: and just call the different schools directly and see what plans they can come up with?
<tonyyarusso> kermit: a couple of decades ago a guy invented things called "web sites".
<tonyyarusso> Schools have their programs all listed online.
<h00k> http://doc.tuxisalive.com/api/python/
<h00k> er, wrong button.
<h00k> sorry.
 * _diablo is ashamed of h00k 
<tonyyarusso> oh man, this professor is actually covering reasonable material, but she sounds like a late-night FM DJ.  I might pass out.  :S
<kermit> tonyyarusso: mctc's website says to call them :P
<tonyyarusso> granted, it's still not material that I don't yet know.
<tonyyarusso> kermit: That's ridiculous...
<kermit> tonyyarusso: there's very little information on their website
<mr_steve> kermit: That's true, a lot of it is hard to find
<tonyyarusso> kermit: uh, http://www.minneapolis.edu/academics/careerprograms.cfm ?
<mr_steve> The course catalog has a lot of info tho, I know it's online somewhere
<kermit> tonyyarusso: the theme of universities is to make information and knowledge  obscure so you're forced to go through their archaic channels.  that's their job security.
<tonyyarusso> pretty much
<mr_steve> whoo time to hibernate the machine and take a break. frickin 3 1/2 hour class tonight...
<_diablo> yeah, i'm sitting in stats now lol
<tonyyarusso> I'm in "Law and the Legal Process"
<tonyyarusso> but I have a netbook and three batteries, so I'm good to go
<tonyyarusso> sadly I don't have a spare battery for me.  NEED DINNER
<_diablo> lol, I just always sit near a wall-plug.
<tonyyarusso> I don't think most of my classrooms even have them, except for up front by the presenter's area
<_diablo> ah, this is why I love being an econ major at UMN. All our desks have 2 plugs in them. <3 new buildings
<_diablo> thanks taxpayers
<h00k> tonyyarusso: http://ubuntu-wisconsin.org
<kermit> _diablo: how far into econ are you?
<_diablo> kermit: I'm graduating in May with a minor in stats and a BA in econ. But I have all the math base for a BS
<kermit> _diablo: are you familiar with interdisciplinary engineering?
<_diablo> kermit: as a major or what? I mean, I can guess from the name what it is, but no, I've never heard of it before.
<kermit> _diablo: any engineering?
<tonyyarusso> h00k: WHEEEE
<_diablo> kermit: I haven't, but my best friend is an aeronautics engineer and two of my roommates are in engineering (one ME and the other EE)
<_diablo> so I'm moderately familiar with the field ;)
<h00k> tonyyarusso: do you mind if..er...I perhaps borrow some verbage from your homepage?
<_diablo> well, gtg, nice talking to y'all, bbiab
<h00k> tonyyarusso: Holy Crap
<mr_steve> note to self: hibernate doesn't work on lucid...
<tonyyarusso> h00k: It's freely licensed.
<h00k> tonyyarusso: I suppose, but I may not exactly do that, that's sorta corny
<tonyyarusso> h00k: derivative works are okay too ;)
<h00k> tonyyarusso: :D
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: I'm pondering whether our theme could be widened a bit - there's blank space on the sides even on my netbook, which clearly isn't necessary.
 * tonyyarusso doesn't remember if it's pixel-based or percentage-based - should look
<Takyoji> It's pixel-based
<tonyyarusso> mmk
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: where is the line determining the actual width?
 * tonyyarusso is attacking with webdev extensions in firefox
<Takyoji> It actually seems to be in the HTML itself rather than the CSS file
<Takyoji> page.tpl.php
<Takyoji> Handled by the function pagewidth()
<Takyoji> I think it's declared in theme-settings.php
<tonyyarusso> huh, interesting
<Takyoji> The function is declared in template.php
<Takyoji> But the setting itself is in theme-settings.php
<Takyoji> In $defaults['wrapper_width']
<tonyyarusso> Suhweet
<tonyyarusso> That was easy
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: LOOKYLOOKY!  http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/node/9
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Also, the main page!
<Takyoji> Did you make an edit to the formatting of lists?
<Takyoji> (because I fixed that as well; thus I should probably get your modifications before I commit
<tonyyarusso> hah, yeah, I did.  And pushed it.
<tonyyarusso> I just added a " 1em" to a line.
<tonyyarusso> you can do a diff on style.css between revision 149 and 150 to see where.
<Takyoji> Finally committed the change
<Takyoji> I believe the commit has to be approved
 * Takyoji bugs tonyyarusso more.
<Takyoji> So anything else needed?
<h00k> Bah, the udheader module is broken
<tonyyarusso> h00k: the part about ( expecting { ?  Or something else?
<h00k> It complained about something on line 2xxx
<h00k> I forget.
<tonyyarusso> Odd.  Works For Me I think.  Pastebin the error when you have a chance.
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: I don't see about a commit awaiting approval...
<h00k> tonyyarusso: will do
<Takyoji> Actually I think I must have only committed it to my system; I believe I was supposed to PUSH the change to the Launchpad repository
<Takyoji> of which I guess I'll do tomorrow, since I'm leaving for the night
<_diablo> mr_steve, what is the location? I'll have a brown backpack.
<_diablo> mr_steve, alrighty, I'm heading out. text me the location plz 920.345.6775
<mr_steve> I really shoulda checked if there was Wifi at the coffeeshop for ubuntu hour
<_diablo> uh oh...
<_diablo> mr_steve: btw, I'm bringing my old laptop which is currently sans OS. We can install it, that might be interesting enough for people to ask about
<mr_steve> awesome. I've got the netbook only today, which makes showing off the fancy stuff a little tricky
<mr_steve> Forgot the CDs, too
<_diablo> mr_steve: I have my beautiful ratpoison/compiz setup on my other comp too. but it's fedora *ducks*
 * mr_steve wears the stupid helmet
<_diablo> dammit. you don't have the CDs? :( I hopefully have a distro on here so I can flash it...
<mr_steve> I've got a thumb drive with UNR...
 * tonyyarusso has blank CDs, and ISO image, and a burner, but is in east St. Paul
<mr_steve> Oh, I could wipe it and put plain Ubuntu on it, if your machine boots USB...?
<_diablo> tonyyarusso: I have those things too, but they're like 10 blocks north and I'm going straight from class to the coffee place
<_diablo> mr_steve: yeah, that's what I was planning on doing too
<tonyyarusso> What's it worth to you guys to get me to drive over?  :P
<_diablo> mr_steve: do you have an image there? all I have is mint, backtrack, mandriva, suse, and fedora :(
<mr_steve> I can download an image while I'm still on MCTC's fast connection here
<_diablo> tonyyarusso: hahaha, this is just the opening one to get our foot in the door, we probs don't need it this first week :) but if you're around, feel free!
<_diablo> mr_steve: if you could, I'd appreciate it. I'll also do so.
<_diablo> 64 bit 9.10 if possible pl0x.
<mr_steve> I think this is definitely going to be kkind of a dry run, but that's alright
<mr_steve> _diablo: I know you were interested in learning about a few random things I've mentioned, too. Although I forget exactly what
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: I'm not actually around, but I'm not busy later either.
<tonyyarusso> So does this coffee shop *not* have wifi, or you just aren't sure?
<mr_steve> Oh wow I was being sarcastic when I referred to MCTC's connection as fast, but I'm pulling 2MB/s o_O
<mr_steve> tonyyarusso: not sure
<mr_steve> I've never been there before, and the website doesn't say
<tonyyarusso> Have a phone?
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: 64 bit on a netbook?
<mr_steve> Although I bet the area is pretty well saturated with open APs.
<_diablo> mr_steve: basic commad line stuff
<_diablo> tonyyarusso: 920.345.6775
<mr_steve> I don't have a phone, no. And I'm the one with the netbook, _diablo's got some kind of laptop
<_diablo> tonyyarusso: nah, 64 bit on an old 17 inch asus
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: I meant, could you use said phone to call the coffee shop and ask.
<_diablo> tonyyarusso: in class :(
<tonyyarusso> ah, same
<mr_steve> I figure if we get there and they don't have wifi we can just deal with it, or go to one of the dozen or so neighboring coffeeshops
<_diablo> mr_steve: I agree with the whole leaving thing :)
<tonyyarusso> fair point
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: ya really, what kind of coffee shop doesn't have wifi in 2010?!
<mr_steve> yeah, really. They're pretty rare these days
<mr_steve> Some of 'em have crap wifi, port 80 only, etc, but eh
<tonyyarusso> Starbucks has had it for years, but it wasn't free.
<tonyyarusso> and yeah, Caribou has closed ports :(
<tonyyarusso> Bruegger's is open though.
<mr_steve> I gotta look into openvpn over DNS
<mr_steve> Although I hear it's godawful slow.. and I can't even get basic OpenVPN working, so far
<_diablo> starbuck is sorta open now
<_diablo> as long as you use a giftcard
<_diablo> not great, but better
 * _diablo buys a $5 gift card and uses it to buy a cup of coffee worth 4.96 once a month to keep wifi free
<mr_steve> ugh my connection just slowed way down. I wonder if they've got adaptive throttling here
<mr_steve> oh nevermind, there it goes
<_diablo> probably. I'm at about 90 KB/s here
<mr_steve> I'm killing my battery with this, too. Only 4hrs life remaining :)
<mr_steve> But it's done, Ubuntu 9.10 64-bit ISO is downloaded
<_diablo> mr_steve: really? already?
<_diablo> via torrent?
<mr_steve> Nah, straight http. Averaging 2-2.5MB/sec
<_diablo> mr_steve: yup. that'll do it
<_diablo> cool, I'll stop my DL then
<tonyyarusso> I still want to know what netbook you have that you plan to run a 64-bit OS on.
<_diablo> tonyyarusso: I need the 64 bit
<_diablo> it's not a netbook
<_diablo> 17" asus
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: oh, ok
<tonyyarusso> oh, mr_steve was the one with the netbook
<mr_steve> Of course my connection had to drop right after I said that. At least my wireless driver hasn't crashed since the Lucid upgrade
<Obsidian1723> Living on the edge there eh?
<mr_steve> Yup. I updated to see if Lucid would fix my wireless, and apparently it did
<mr_steve> Used to be anytime the card had to re-associate, I'd get a kernel oops and have to force a reboot
<_diablo> mr_steve: wow. that sucks. which NB is this?
<mr_steve> It's the acer aspire one AOD250, it's got ath9k wireless
<mr_steve> all kinds of problems I never had with the ath5k in my laptop
<_diablo> ahhh, fair enough
<_diablo> I think my big asus has a funky atheros card too, so we'll see about that
<mr_steve> ah wtf.. irssi just decided to open a second connection to freenode. weird
<mr_steve> eh I think I'm gonna shut down here and save some battery until
<Obsidian1723> I wont upgrade until 10.04.1LTS...
<mr_steve> I get to the coffeeplace
<Obsidian1723> Is there a way to roll back from gub2 to grub?
<mr_steve> I'll be there at 12:30 or so, I'll be the dude swearing at the little blue netbook
<_diablo> Obsidian1723: not that I know of without reinstalling OS. I think it's non-reversible from the message when I installed it
<_diablo> mr_steve: sounds good
<Obsidian1723> tx diablo. Im not a fan of grub2.
<Obsidian1723> or 9.10
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: where are you guys going?
<_diablo> Obsidian1723: really? what's your impression of grub2? I usually use Lilo when I have a choice, so I don't really know
<tonyyarusso> lilo?  Really?  interesting.
<_diablo> tonyyarusso: 430 1st st N, Ambrosia coffee
<_diablo> tonyyarusso: yeah, holdover from my time on slackware. I loved it.
<_diablo> but I don't bother to change it on big distros
<_diablo> if it don't broek...
<Obsidian1723> diablo, well, grub2 is a clusterf*ck really. It's a mess to edit and work with compared to grub. For that matter, Ubuntu 8.04x is still the best recent OS, 8.01 and 9.10 are disasters, 9.04 is ok.
<Obsidian1723> I really only use LTS releases and not until the first point release
<_diablo> I liked 9.04. But only because CrunchBang made it pretty :)
<tonyyarusso> 9.10 is actually working pretty okay for me.
<tonyyarusso> the console bell issue is my only gripe, and that's fixed in lucid
<_diablo> tonyyarusso: I mean, I'd be running 9.10 with 10.04 packages if I had it on my main. that's what my netbook is doing
<_diablo> I really dislike the look that ubuntu is taking now though :-/
<Obsidian1723> yah'
<_diablo> well, i'm off to ubuntu hour, ttyl
<Obsidian1723> Ubuntu Hour???
<h00k> yay Ubuntu Hour!
<Obsidian1723> what is that and where at?
<h00k> Ubuntu Hour is: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour
 * Obsidian1723 brb new kernel loaded. Gotta reboot.
<h00k> tonyyarusso: ...I...have an idea.
<h00k> ...holy crap this could be awesome.
<h00k> It'd involve collaboration with Ubuntu Minnesota and Ubuntu Wisconsin
<h00k> and...
<h00k> heh. So, there's a commercial contest from the Linux Foundation: http://video.linuxfoundation.org/contest/we-are-linux-superbowl-ad-contest and I was thinking we could work together between LoCo's and put together some sort of commercial.
<h00k> The style that I was thinking would be a behind-the-scenes of us making the actual commercial, (someone composing music, drawing something with the gimp, video editing with some video editor), etc
<h00k> and somehow advertize that the whole thing was put together with Free Software and Linux
<h00k> if we don't win, we still had a blast doing it and could use it
<Obsidian1723> I know I've mentioned this before, but have you guys considered working with FGTC? We may b e duplicating efforts here.
<Obsidian1723> #fgtc on here.. We could cross promote.
<h00k> what is this?
<Obsidian1723> Free Geek Twein Cities
<Obsidian1723> Twin
<Obsidian1723> We take PCs, refurb them, put Ubuntu on them, give them to people for free.
<Obsidian1723> Based on the national Free Geek from Portland, WA freegeek.org our site is freegeektwincities.org
<tonyyarusso> h00k: stop the presses!
 * tonyyarusso tries actually reading the idea
 * h00k stops
<tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: yes, and I told you to add them to a wiki page :)
<Obsidian1723> hey tony
<tonyyarusso> h00k: it would be cool if it can be done, yes.  I know I don't have any graphic/video skills, but someone must.
<h00k> things like OpenShot, Pitivi, etc, can be used
<h00k> Brittany is pretty good with Pitivi, actually
<tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: right, but we need to know who we can work with first before drafting a plan of how.  You can bring it up on the mailing list as well.
<h00k> sgtd and I were throwing ideas back and forth about drum-tracks with Hydrogen, exigraff can piano, we could make a nice background track
<tonyyarusso> And why are you using /notices ?
<h00k> who?
<tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723 is.
<tonyyarusso> maybe he just has a messed-up client
<h00k> ah, ah.
<Obsidian1723> will do on the list
<Takyoji> So had some more idears
<Takyoji> So I had some more idears*
<Takyoji> Regardless of not being an approved group; we should still provide ShipIt in some form
<Takyoji> On our own basis
<Takyoji> and paying for the discs; I would certainly be willing to purchase discs to give freely
<Takyoji> So to "triage" a bug just means to prioritize it, and?
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-02-06
<Takyoji> Are there any other reasonable text-to-speech solutions other than Orca?
<Takyoji> Alpha_Cluster returns
<Alpha_Cluster> >.<
<Alpha_Cluster> i keep forgetting to add this channel to MacIrssi on my MBP
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> otherwise one thing I don't entirely understand; FOSS can infringe upon patents, as long as there's no form of profit from it, correct, or?
<Alpha_Cluster> legally it cant still
<Takyoji> (to how I interpreted something written on the FAQ for ReactOS)
<Alpha_Cluster> but the question they patent owner usually asks is "Can i make money off this"
<Alpha_Cluster> FOSS tends to not be "worth" anything from that perspective
<Alpha_Cluster> ReactOS is a funny situation
<Alpha_Cluster> cause Microsoft would get lots of shit for trying to crack down on them.
<Takyoji> heh ahh
<Alpha_Cluster> Microsoft generally doesnt sue FOSS cause it would cause a huge cascade of patent suits
<Takyoji> A backfire, or?
<Takyoji> or that it would be such a vast array of firms they'd had to create a suit against?
<Alpha_Cluster> there is a group that  Novell, Red Hat and IBM started that holds a bunch of patents as well
<Alpha_Cluster> both sides infringe on each others with basic OS and Windowing designs
<Alpha_Cluster> so we pretty much have a patent detante
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> Woo, chili
<Takyoji> I need something to work on for the LoCo website..
 * Takyoji pokes at the deadness of the channel with a stick
<mr_steve> howdy folks
<mr_steve> Ubuntu hour was very fun, although we didn't really accomplish anything
<mr_steve> tonyyarusso, I'm going to commit at this time to the first friday of every month for sure, and I'm gonna try for every other week
<Takyoji> I'm dying to add/adjust more of the Minnesota LoCo website...
<mr_steve> Takyoji, If you want to add some info about my Ubuntu hour events, feel free. Otherwise I'm going to do it later tonight
<Takyoji> You probably could
<mr_steve> Yeah, I'm planning on it. Just figured if you really wanted something to do... but I just realzed the location of the next one is still TBD
<mr_steve> the place me and _diablo went had broken wi-fi, and apparently it almost never works. Boo.
<Takyoji> heh ahh
<mr_steve> Heh, we had no wi-fi, no Ubuntu CDs, and the laptop _diablo brought to install on was busted. Still fun though, I definitely want to meet some more of the LoCo folks
<Takyoji> In which city?
<mr_steve> Well, I'm trapped in Minneapolis
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> So are pbuilder and dpkg-buildpackage different ways to build a deb file, or?
<mr_steve> Takyoji, yup
<mr_steve> Along with debuild, just to make it confusing
<Takyoji> I went through the basic packaging guide on the Ubuntu wiki; and don't have a deb file yet
<Takyoji> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic
<mr_steve> The main difference, which makes pbuilder important, is that pbuilder builds in a chroot, with only the build-deps specified by the package
<Takyoji> ahh
<mr_steve> So if a package doesn't specify it's build-deps right, it might succeed if built directly on your system, but fail in pbuilder, so you can catch those mistakes
<Takyoji> some things I also noticed about the wiki page is that the generated rules file is quite different than the result I have; the ubuntu package didn't hae a postinst nor prerm file to copy to the debian directory, and it refers to an older version of debhelper, version 5.
<Takyoji> I've completed all the way down to "Building the Source Package"
<mr_steve> Yeah, the docs are nuts
<Takyoji> Then someone needs to fix it! :P
<Takyoji> Think of all the other poor souls
<mr_steve> Agreed. I'm not up to that task yet, though. I just learned I don't need to muck about with python-central, that I should probably use python-support instead, and that debhelper 7 does it automatically.
<mr_steve> None of which is in the docs
<Takyoji> oh fun
<mr_steve> Oh, and #ubuntu-motu is definitely hard to get a response in, unless they're already talking about whatever you wanna talk about.
<Takyoji> As I noticed
<Takyoji> I also noticed you in the channel yesterday as well. :P
<Takyoji> It's an annoying thing; when there's hundreds of people, but they don't care to respond
<mr_steve> You might wanna also try the ubuntu-motu-mentors mailing list
<Takyoji> ESPECIALLY in the marketing channel
<tonyyarusso> mr_steve: cool
<mr_steve> heya chief, how goes?
 * Takyoji notices a message by mr_steve in the mailing list archives, from yesterday
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Triage is both prioritizing, and if possible, categorizing in other ways as well.  For instance, you might know which team to assign it to, might know better than the submitter which package to mark it as affecting, etc.
<tonyyarusso> it's an Alpha_Cluster !
<Takyoji> tonyyarusso: we must further work towards our plan of world domination..
<Takyoji> ahh
<Alpha_Cluster> ?
<Alpha_Cluster> wait what?
<Alpha_Cluster> am i here?
<mr_steve> No, it's a bad dream. Go back to sleep :)
<Alpha_Cluster> ahh ok
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: as for the group Alpha_Cluster mentioned re: patents, it's basically a Mutually Assured Destruction situation of patent holdings by two superpowers :P
<Alpha_Cluster> :)
<Alpha_Cluster> the Patent Cold War
<Takyoji> I need guidance on where to progress next on my crusade, of the YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP
<Takyoji> :P
<Takyoji> What is there that we can do to improve more as a team/resource?
<Alpha_Cluster> you know that was last year... and the year before that oh andthe one before
<Alpha_Cluster> oh wait they have said that EVERY year for like the last 5
<mr_steve> If we really wanted to kick some a** as a LoCo, we could consider getting groups of us together to work on triage, or packaging, or whatever.
<Takyoji> 2010: A Linux Odyssey
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Take a look at the area-groups blueprint, expand the list of known groups on the linked wiki page, and then start drafting a plan for contacting them and how we can propose working together.
<mr_steve> And of course marketing
<tonyyarusso> mr_steve: "Jams", as they're called, yes.
<Takyoji> And that's one thing I'm dying for to have
<Takyoji> is interested people to actually assemble and collaborate
<Takyoji> rather than just individual doing their own thing quietly
<Takyoji> individually*
<Alpha_Cluster> mr_steve, i would but in the middle of nowhere
<Takyoji> and in real-time as well
<mr_steve> If something could be arranged I'd be happy to talk abit about triage, I must have handled 50-100 bugs so far.
<mr_steve> I was trying for bugcontrol membership before I started school, now I just don't have that kind of time
<Takyoji> Anyone have thoughts on my suggestion of our own form of ShipIt for the time being?
<Takyoji> (in the time being of not being an approved group, and having to buy the discs; which shouldn't be that drastic in price or demand)
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: it's a decent idea - you'll want to do some research into what the actual costs would be.
<tonyyarusso> First you have to decide whether burned discs are sufficient or if they need to be official ones with the nice artwork and whatnot.
<Takyoji> Actually I guess it's over $1.58 a disc
<tonyyarusso> Then you need to consider how much capital you're willing to invest in inventory, and figure out the appropriate number to get.
<tonyyarusso> Then you'd need to know what form of mailing is appropriate for sending a single CD-ROM domestically, and the cost of that.
<Takyoji> Additionally people could even just pick up discs from certain locations as well
<Takyoji> rather than waiting a couple days for something to go like a half mile from a distributor's house to the recipient.
<tonyyarusso> Well, that assumes a certain distribution of distributors and requesters.
<tonyyarusso> and the more distribution points you have, the more places you'd have to ship bulk to and the more inventory you'd have to maintain
<Takyoji> I'm just implying for certain situations; not all
<tonyyarusso> As a quick estimate, consider these numbers:
<tonyyarusso> Starting inventory: 100 Ubuntu 9.10 Desktop CDs with official artwork
<tonyyarusso> CD cost: $128.01
<tonyyarusso> Shipping to distributor: apparently free (!)
<tonyyarusso> Prepaid USPS cardboard shipping envelopes (so, package plus postage): $490
<tonyyarusso> Total source to recipient cost: $6.18 per CD
<tonyyarusso> Are you willing to cover that?
<Takyoji> When I start working a bit more; who knows. :P
<Takyoji> And if about 10 people feel willing to participate and divide the costs, that would be about $49 each of the 10 would have to pay up front
<Takyoji> So for area groups; would that mostly be Linux-related, or just anything technology-related?
<tonyyarusso> the latter
<tonyyarusso> anything where we can a) contribute skills, b) raise awareness, c) recruit new members, etc
<Takyoji> and this would exclude any commercial companies, or?
<tonyyarusso> um, explain what you're thinking of.
<Takyoji> Vendors of products; although that would be an alternate thing to work on later on
<tonyyarusso> That would be outside the scope of the existing blueprint; you should file a separate one for that sort of thing.
<Takyoji> Penguins Unbound is just one individual rather than a group, correct?
<tonyyarusso> This is for things like Free Geek, ACM, AWC, etc.
<tonyyarusso> eh, sort of.
<Takyoji> ahh
<tonyyarusso> Penguins Unbound basically is a LUG that's avoiding calling itself that because of political issues within TCLUG.
<tonyyarusso> essentially, PU *is* the modern TCLUG as far as all in-person events go.
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> Interesting. Found "Unix Users of Minnesota"
<Takyoji> http://uum.org
<Takyoji> Though it sounds specifically Unix rather than Unix-like
<tonyyarusso> right
<Takyoji> http://openmn.com - although I have a feeling it's an individual
<Takyoji> but could lead somewhere
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, there are a bunch of "organizations" around here that are just some guy with a web site I'm afraid :(
<Takyoji> http://m7.8m.com/index2.htm (note: supposedly has popups, but blocked by Firefox)
<Takyoji> Holy crap that's old. Year 2000
<tonyyarusso> TCLUG's postings are ancient too
<tonyyarusso> yikes, are they going for a prize for most terrible web design?
<tonyyarusso> "I know, let's put all of the actual content in a box 25 pixels high!"
<Takyoji> Remember, that was the Web 1.0 era. :P
<tonyyarusso> That doesn't mean it wasn't crap by those standards too.
<tonyyarusso> (The last info on the TCLUG site is 2003)
<Takyoji> I suppose we should also be listed in LUG listings as well
<Takyoji> Because if people search for a Minnesota LUG (Specifically), they'll find all the other [dead] groups except us at first attempt
<Takyoji> In other words, it would be useful to find a way to be added to http://linux.org/groups/usa/minnesota.html
<Takyoji> Plus, that would add a little for PageRank as well
<Takyoji> and crap, I haven't gotten my Linux Journal magazine for the month yet..
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: e-mails sent to webmasters.
<mr_steve> Wtf.. my math homework asserts that (-590)/(-0.70) == 843
<tonyyarusso> mr_steve: what's wrong with that?
<mr_steve> The instructions say nothing about rounding
<tonyyarusso> Well, what's the context of the question?  Perhaps it only makes sense to do so.
<tonyyarusso> although if it's a word problem of some sort the answer should only be 840
<mr_steve> eh, well... it is a word problem, dealing with numbers of people... so 842.8571429 would be a pretty strange number of humans
<tonyyarusso> oh, well there you go then.  Integer required.
<tonyyarusso> and like a step function too, not just rounding to nearest.
<mr_steve> So rounding is logical, but I reworked the problem 6 times trying to figure out why I was getting such a funky number, since I thought for sure it was wrong
<tonyyarusso> Well that's just you being slow to catch on ;)
<mr_steve> Very slow
<mr_steve> Math and I do not have the best relationship
<mr_steve> That's why I'm paying about $800 for the privilege of taking high-school level algebra at MCTC
<tonyyarusso> heh
<tonyyarusso> ouch
<tonyyarusso> how did you graduate HS?
<mr_steve> I could pass the 8th grade basic standards tests, and that's all my high school really cared about
<tonyyarusso> oh :S
<mr_steve> Plus I was working tech support for them almost full time as an intern, so they just shuffled some of my credits around so I could graduate and work for them for real
<mr_steve> Turned my 5 semesters of photography class into math credits :)
<mr_steve> I suppose if I ever go back for a 4yr degree in comp-sci or something I'll need to know this stuff, eh?
<tonyyarusso> cuz that sounds ethical...
<mr_steve> Ethics were to MTS what a bicycle is to a fish.
<tonyyarusso> Or if you ever want to, you know, succeed at life without your own personal math person following you around.
<Takyoji> Significant digits
<Takyoji> The first value only implies 2 significant digits
<mr_steve> no comprendo
<Takyoji> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_digits
<Takyoji> Though the typical mathematics class doesn't really care
<Takyoji> But for physics, for example, yes
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: heh - feedback@linux.org bounces.
<Takyoji> heh
<Takyoji> "If your group is not included in our list, please email webmaster@linux.org with all the details. There's no charge to be included on our site, and we'll automatically create a link to your group's web site as long as you give us the URL!"
<Takyoji> So you sent to the wrong address. :P
<tonyyarusso> resent
<tonyyarusso> (that was the address in the footer)
<Takyoji> Just noticed
<tonyyarusso> anyway, bedtime
<Takyoji> Same
 * Takyoji wonders how many others here use Miro
<Takyoji> I subscribe to Linux Journal, Hak5, Category5, Onion News, etc
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: btw, it wasn't the wrong address - I actually read the bounce message the second time - their mail server is blocking all Google IPs.
<Takyoji> awkward
 * Takyoji rejoices over the soon-to-come outphasing of IE6 by Google
<tonyyarusso> What's IE6?  :P
<Takyoji> That thing careless people use! :o
<Takyoji> Or are forced to use, due to an illiterate sysop/netop for their company
<Takyoji> otherwise for my "suggestion" at the previous meeting; it's pretty much just setting a goal for the month
<Takyoji> So there's specifically a Drupal module that may be useful for such?
<tonyyarusso> possibly
<tonyyarusso> Too bad I didn't have it in mind yet the other day when I looked through them all...
<Takyoji> otherwise we could just even have it on a wiki-basis for now
<Takyoji> I'm reading through modules right now
<Takyoji> And I say 'otherwise' a bit too much
<tonyyarusso> You'll be looking for ones mentioning "timesheet", "time tracker", plus the core profile module for posting the goals.
<tonyyarusso> You'd probably want to then also hack your own "thermometer" one to show progress, building off the donations thermometer module.
 * Takyoji pokes tonyyarusso
<tonyyarusso> yes?
<Takyoji> http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/possible-modules
<Takyoji> Compiled a list of modules relating to the general functionality of interest
<Takyoji> Search queries I used to find those were: action, meter, goal, donation, tracker, tasks
<tonyyarusso> Could you please go through that list and edit the page with a brief justification / sample use case for each as well?
<Takyoji> already
<Takyoji> alright*
<Takyoji> What I mean is to choose one of them; not all of them
<Takyoji> in case if you misunderstood that aspect
<Takyoji> I suppose I'll just narrow it down to Community Tasks and Hours. They seem to be relatively active projects and provide what we need
<Takyoji> Case Tracker is would be the next potential option
<tonyyarusso> I have no idea why project is on your list btw
<Takyoji> The list was compiled of anything that looked remotely relevant, but not thoroughly observed
<tonyyarusso> ah.  Then you still have a little sifting to do :)
<Takyoji> But I'm not a very decisive person. :P
<Takyoji> so what installfests are currently planned?
<tonyyarusso> none atm
<kermit> are there any linux job fairs around?
<tonyyarusso> That's an excellent question - I have no idea about such a thing's existence.
<kermit> i need a linux job downtown really soon
<tonyyarusso> craigslist is a good start
 * tonyyarusso goes to clean
<Takyoji> So Theora (or the basis of it) is based off an older codec technology that was made by the same company that created H.264, or?
<Takyoji> VP3
<kermit> tonyyarusso: ahh, thanks
<kermit> tonyyarusso: i've never heard that suggested before
<Takyoji> Ahh yes, SSH is so nice
<Takyoji> My mother wanted me to copy pictures off for her on her computer, and I'm just SSHing into the machine and copying from the SD card to her desktop folder.
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, I use it to get at all of my storage when on the go with my netbook.
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> I'm curious what will be the result of NeatX, which is supposedly Google's open recreation of the NX technology
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-02-07
<Takyoji> Anyone use a media center solution like Boxee or anything?
 * Obsidian1723 have phun all...
<Takyoji> Awkward; apparently my 0-key on my numpad is acting like the Insert key
<Takyoji> So Opera doesn't have a built-in Theora implementation yet?
<mr_steve> _diablo, hey
<_diablo> mr_steve, yo
<_diablo> what's up?
<_diablo> mr_steve, ?
<mr_steve> _diablo, hey. Sorry, I got pulled away for a bit there
<mr_steve> _diablo, I had a question for ya. What screen resolution do you use when you're running ratpoison?
<_diablo> mr_steve, uhhh, I haven't ever changed it. lemme check my .ratpoisonrc
<_diablo> hmmm, how would I know?
<mr_steve> uh... good question, actually. xdpyinfo, maybe
<mr_steve> In Gnome/KDE it would just be display control panel
<mr_steve> I'm just curious because I'm at 1280x800 on this laptop, and I think I need a higher res for ratpoison to feel really comfy to use
<_diablo> yeah, I think so too
<_diablo> my screen in GNOME is only 12800x800 too. But yeah, I agree. I think 1600 would be perfect. Although RP is still fine for me
<_diablo> you know you can have multiple workspaces right mr_steve?
<mr_steve> yup
<mr_steve> I think I gotta get my dualhead setup going again tho to really work effectively
<_diablo> I want a desk :(
<mr_steve> me too
<h00k> I want another monitor :(
<h00k> or two
<h00k> or three?
<mr_steve> I think a 3x2 grid with a 50" plasma screen above it would suit me just fine ;)
<_diablo> I think that would require about 12 graphics cards lol
<mr_steve> So I still gotta find a new location for the next Ubuntu hour
<_diablo> mr_steve, yeeeah, the lack of wireless is terrible
<mr_steve> Yup. So I'll probably scout one of the other places within a block or two of there
<_diablo> cool. that'd be good
<tonyyarusso> mr_steve: parking would be a good consideration too
<mr_steve> tonyyarusso, indeed. That's a major problem downtown
<tonyyarusso> So our web site now has a feed of the Identi.ca group on it.
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, ah! What is the identi.ca group?
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: http://identi.ca/group/ubuntuminnesota
<_diablo> thx
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, I noticed you're using gwibber. Are you on their daily or on the stable?
<tonyyarusso> stable currently, although I've also used the daily at times
<_diablo> okay, just wondering, I've noticed issues with it. It tended to crash on me a lot while I used it
<_diablo> I've just stopped microblogging on anything but twitter. Kinda sad. :(
 * mr_steve thinks there has got to be a better way to write manpages
<mr_steve> cnetworkmanager has so many command line options.. I'm going to be muttering "dot TP, dot B, backslash dash backslash dash.." in my sleep
<_diablo> mr_steve, think about writing the page for ls or grep or something. :)
<mr_steve> I'd rather not
<mr_steve> heh or sed, awk, etc
<mr_steve> what drives me nuts about cnetworkmanager is that the developer was really alias happy
<mr_steve> there's multiple short and long forms of each option
<_diablo> mr_steve, I love it though. I appreciate it. I wish other things would do the same
<mr_steve> I think it makes sense to have a short and long option, but for the love of $DEITY, -a, -n, --ap-list, --ap, and --nets all do the same thing
<_diablo> yeeeah, but it's easy to remember because of that :)
<mr_steve> True enough
<_diablo> how annoying is writing man pages? they're .gz files, right?
<tonyyarusso> no, they're text files that get compressed with gzip ;)
<mr_steve> they're gzip'd text files, written with groff macros
<_diablo> ahhh, gotcha
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, yeeah, I assumed :)
<mr_steve> only about 8 more options left to document, and this manpage will be finished. So close to getting this package into universe
<mr_steve> Except that the author didn't put copyright headers in his source files, so apparently I have to ask him if he can do that in the next version
<_diablo> and then you are a Master of the Universe!
<mr_steve> _diablo, eh, I got a ways to go yet
<mr_steve> But I do kinda like packaging, so if he keep at it, it'll probably happen
<_diablo> yeah, fair enough
<_diablo> packaging interests me only because I don't know what it means. Seems like cross-compiling or something, right?
<mr_steve> Well, first you have your source package, which is just the orginal source code wrapped up in a format that various tools know how to deal with
<mr_steve> and with all of the package's dependencies specified
<mr_steve> Then from there you can build a binary package, which contains the actual files to be installed on your system
<mr_steve> So I believe the way ubuntu does it, or at least the way the launchpad PPAs do it, is to pass the source package to 3 different hosts, i386, amd64, and one other arch.
<mr_steve> And each one build the binary package for that architecture
<_diablo> ahhh, okay.
<_diablo> I will be asking you more about this at the next ubuntu hour. :)
<_diablo> and I'll bring an Ubuntu box next time
<mr_steve> Well I just did something stupid
<mr_steve> For those of you who don't know about it, molly-guard really is a wonderful little utility... :)
<mr_steve> Which I am now proceeding to install on every single box on my network
<Obsidian1723> what is it?
<mr_steve> It replaces the shutdown, halt, and reboot commands with a script that asks you the name of the system you want to shutdown before actually doing it
<tonyyarusso> hehe
<_diablo> ah... that's useful I suppose
<mr_steve> I just tried to shutdown my netbook, started wondering why it was taking so long, and then saw my laptop go dark instead. Whoops.
<mr_steve> Oh well, at least it wasn't my server. It needs a reboot anyway, but I think it's next reboot will be it's last
<Obsidian1723> Sounds like a stupidity preventer
<mr_steve> exactly
<mr_steve> originally designed for when you're working on a co-located server, where pressing the power button requires a phone call and service fee
<tonyyarusso> Or just when powering off is A Bad Thing, which is true for any server that's not your random thing at home.
<mr_steve> Yeah, been there, done that. It's amazing how fast the phones start ringing when a busy MS Exchange server falls over.
<tonyyarusso> I would love to have video of an Exchange server actually falling over :)
<mr_steve> Me too, actually.
<h00k> I could set that up, actually.
<tonyyarusso> without getting fired?  :P
<h00k> weeeelllllll, they might not know about it
<h00k> or, old hardware
<h00k> the rackmount stuffs would be off limits
<tonyyarusso> awright
 * tonyyarusso continues to feel badass for having rackmount equipment in his bedroom
<mr_steve> I'm jealous. My equipment is in a stack... or more properly, a pile.
<tonyyarusso> hehe, there's a little of that going on too
<tonyyarusso> the new stuff is rack
<h00k> tonyyarusso: its true, you are.
<mr_steve> I'm gonna be looking for some kind of rackmount case when my fileserver finally dies. Should be any day now
<tonyyarusso> Mine's awesome, Norco somethingorother, 430 maybe?
<h00k> tonyyarusso: my equipment consists of a laptop and a netbook.
<h00k> and a bunch of spare crap.
<tonyyarusso> I needed a short-depth (<16") one for this location/rack
<h00k> I have a P3 in my trunk.
<tonyyarusso> I have, uh, 3 P3ish things in my trunk?  Not mine though...
 * tonyyarusso should really finish those and return them
<h00k> I still have to think of a use for mine
<tonyyarusso> They really don't have much if you need them to be in any area where heat/noise is a concern :(
<tonyyarusso> otherwise file servers and firewalls and maybe a web server here and there
<h00k> filesever, maybe.
<tonyyarusso> It's probably a better long-term play to just recycle it and get a nettop though, unless you want a RAID/multi-disk fileserver.
<h00k> maybe a devserver
<tonyyarusso> I thought that too, but that's what VMs are for now.
<h00k> yeah...
<h00k> bah.
<h00k> which I just run on my laptops
<h00k> (vm's)
<h00k> i'm really debating upgrading to alpha-2 on my laptop
<tonyyarusso> I upgraded my kernel, but that's it
<h00k> hrm.
<exigraff> how much difficulty would one run into, running karmic and lucid from separate partitions, using a single partition for /home?
<tonyyarusso> probably not much - I've done that with previous releases.
<tonyyarusso> You'll want backups obviously, but there's a decent chance it won't totally explode.
<h00k> I had asked about this in #ubuntu+1, they said probably not to because if the .dotfiles get changed, it might be angry about different versions
<_diablo> exigraff, I've done this with different distros and had no issues.
<_diablo> ymmv
<mr_steve> bah I gotta go to bed. I really gotta think about adding a clock to my basic ratpoison layout..
<mr_steve> g'night all
<_diablo> nn
<exigraff> night
<mr_steve> so, i got my multihead setup working, more or less. Now I have to use ratpoison, because Gnome barfs.
<mr_steve> hm. My wireles is cripplingly slow on this laptop, apparently
<mr_steve> Anyone else use a tiling window manager?
<h00k> no, but I've considered it
<mr_steve> I'm kind of liking ratpoison, but I think I'm going to try some of the others, like awesome and wmii
<h00k> I saw a guy use xmonad and it looked pretty neat
<Takyoji> What's the command line application for detecting the ASCII value of a specific keystroke?
<_diablo> Takyoji, sorry, I don't remember off the top of my head
<kermit> Takyoji: hexdump, or od, or xxd
<Takyoji> ahh
<kermit> Takyoji: or man ascii
<Takyoji> I have an IR remote with this laptop that acts as part of the keyboard
<Takyoji> Thus was thinking if I could map certain keys to do certain things
<kermit> Takyoji: oh for extended keyboard input, use showkey  .. though any app you'd be using it with probably has a button to capture a 'keystroke' for assignment anyway
<kermit> Takyoji: showkey  only works in a console
<mr_steve> hey _diablo, I got my dualhead working :)
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-02-01
 * tonyyarusso wonders if h00k made it home alive
 * sparklehistory too
 * Takyoji wonders if the last IPv4 address ranges were just allocated..
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: That's what I hear, yeah.
<h00k> tonyyarusso: I am! er, did!
<h00k> sparklehistory: ^ ease your mind, also.
<sparklehistory> h00k: Good to hear!
<h00k> I really enjoyed dinner, we need a Noodles & Co.
<h00k> We got back to Superior around 2:00am
<h00k> we decided to attempt to brave the weather
<tonyyarusso> h00k: glad to hear your return trip was uneventful
<sparklehistory> h00k: I really enjoyed dinner too, it was great to meet you.
<h00k> tonyyarusso: no accidents, nobody rear-ended anyone, didn't even see anyone in the ditch
<h00k> aparently they saw 6 overturned cars on the way down
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-02-02
<MinSys> 5 minutes until @home with jono bacon http://www.ustream.tv/channel/at-home-with-jono-bacon
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-02-03
<fisch246> i always feel like i'm bothering tony >.<
<fisch246> he's a nice guy, but i never really know with him
<fisch246> cause i take our chapter so seriously...
<tonyyarusso> hehe
 * tonyyarusso pulls up the question I'm supposed to be answering
<tonyyarusso> ah, right - events
<tonyyarusso> Absolutely you should hold some.
<tonyyarusso> We have a few from time to time, but not nearly enough.  If you want to organize something, by all means do it!
<tonyyarusso> fisch246: Where in the state are you?  I know some people have been clamoring for something in the SW suburbs of the Cities, and I know Visi's big over there, so perhaps you'd be able to do that?
<fisch246> i'm in minnetonka according to google >.<
<fisch246> because my city is too small
<fisch246> but i'm right off of 7
<fisch246> near 169
<fisch246> i don't have facilities to host anything
<fisch246> but if we all pitched in on the money part, i could try and pull something together...
<fisch246> however i'm not great with dealing with a lot of people...
<fisch246> so if i have someone who can, i can plan it, and they can deal with the people haha
<tonyyarusso> fisch246: Facilities are ridiculously easy to find - I wouldn't worry about that.
<tonyyarusso> Nor is there any particular expense necessary.  Usually the only thing on that front is pitching in to order pizza or something.
<fisch246> so what kinds of things would you guys want to do?
<fisch246> just talk and figure out if people can help with projects?
<fisch246> cause i'm working on 3 different projects related to linux, and then school
<fisch246> maybe someone can bring an xbox, and DnD or something haha
<fisch246> eventually it can turn into something like, we hold seminars, for teaching people about Ubuntu and/or programming
<fisch246> so teaching about "Systems" and "Programming"
<fisch246> idk if you guys want to work with community or not
<fisch246> i mean hanging out and talking about linux is fine with me
<fisch246> meeting new friends
<fisch246> being an introvert it's pretty hard to find people who have the same interests...
<fisch246> and if we end up doing this sort of thing more often, i can fix up a website or use the email list to tell people of events...
<fisch246> i think website would be better, since people may not want to know about events
<tonyyarusso> fisch246: any and all of the above are good ideas.  TCLUG / Penguins Unbound do monthly seminar / presentation things, which works well.  That's not Ubuntu-specific though - distro-agnostic group that twice a year teams up with us for Ubuntu release parties.
<tonyyarusso> fisch246: also, we have a web site all ready to go - we just need the events to post on it :)
<fisch246> o ok
<fisch246> am i allowed posting rights?
<tonyyarusso> Not yet, but it can be arranged easily.  See if you can apply for an account at http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/user
<fisch246> i don't see a place to register
<fisch246> as in...
<fisch246> i don't have a community account
<tonyyarusso> oh, ha, that's right
<tonyyarusso> fisch246: Do you have a Launchpad account?
<fisch246> yup
 * tonyyarusso tries to remember how this is configured currently
<tonyyarusso> ooooooooh
<fisch246> test
<fisch246> hm...
<fisch246> odd
<tonyyarusso> fisch246: Try refreshing the main page, http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/ - do you see a log in button on the lower left?
<fisch246> yea i do
<fisch246> noice!
<tonyyarusso> click that :)
<fisch246> ah i know!
<tonyyarusso> huzzah, it even assigned you the role properly.  Yay me.
<fisch246> a natty release party :D
<fisch246> doesn't have to be on the day of the release btw
<tonyyarusso> of course
<tonyyarusso> We've usually done the weekend immediately after or one after that.
<tonyyarusso> Penguins Unbound does them on Saturday, usually like 10-4.  h00k did a thing in Superior, WI on a Friday night at a restaurant.
<fisch246> well i think we should set a date, but not place...
<fisch246> then get people to register for the event
<fisch246> get people's information and whereabout...
<fisch246> then set a place when we know where everyone is coming from
<fisch246> maybe i can log the RSVB into a table on spreadsheet
<fisch246> and post it as it gets updated
<tonyyarusso> No need - we have Drupal modules for such things if we want to use them.
<fisch246> drupal?
<fisch246> btw... what's the difference between edit, and revision?
<fisch246> o nvm
<fisch246> i get it
<tonyyarusso> Drupal's the CMS the site runs on.
<fisch246> o ok
<fisch246> o ew... http...
<fisch246> we should emplace some blogging software...
<fisch246> o sorry i think it's actually php
<fisch246> wow i'm tired >.<
<fisch246> i just called the code http... i was meaning html
<tonyyarusso> uh, it is a form of blogging software - what do you mean?
<fisch246> i know...
<fisch246> but it's in php
<fisch246> instead of a gui system
<fisch246> mind if i use this as the picture of the event? haha http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ra5vgG72iSk/THFErzWA3LI/AAAAAAAAAKE/NQLssOeqgxQ/s1600/ubuntu_natty_300.jpg
<tonyyarusso> "gui system"?  You just compared a programming language to an interface category....are you drunk?  ;)
<tonyyarusso> I don't mind if you use it, but you'll need to check the terms from the author first.
<fisch246> ha :P
<fisch246> well that's what i mean...
<fisch246> instead of having a programming language...
<fisch246> have a gui system...
<fisch246> make it easier...
<tonyyarusso> ....
<tonyyarusso> Dude, that doesn't make any sense.
<tonyyarusso> "GUI systems" are written *in* programming languages - they don't replace them.
<fisch246> i know >.<
<fisch246> but for blogging i currently have to type in PHP
<fisch246> i hate that language...
<fisch246> i prefer it if someone wrote a gui, so i didn't have to use PHP
<fisch246> i'm a programmer... i know how this stuff works :P
<tonyyarusso> ...
<tonyyarusso> There is absolutely no reason why you would need to write a single line of PHP code to post on this site.
<fisch246> o... did i press the wrong button then?
<fisch246> o my god...
<fisch246> i did...
<fisch246> XD
<tonyyarusso> what did you break...
<fisch246> nothing don't worry
<fisch246> i'm not one to mess around with code until something works :P
<fisch246> have more faith tony :P
<fisch246> alright anyway....
<fisch246> do you think it should be a release fest or installfest?
<fisch246> XD
<fisch246> release party*
<tonyyarusso> probably just a party if you want to start simple - full-blown installfests take a little more preparation.
<fisch246> is it easy to edit things later?
<tonyyarusso> yup
<fisch246> mmk i'm gonna type up something in a text file first...
<fisch246> cause i have to head out
<fisch246> :/
<fisch246> so when i have everything typed out, i'll paste it in
<fisch246> and feel free to revise it, if it looks confusing and what not
<tonyyarusso> sure
<fisch246> want my number or email to get a hold of me?
<fisch246> it will be sent by pm btw
<fisch246> ah i'll just send it now
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-02-04
<h00k> It's true, we had a release party in Superior. Dinner/social. It was pretty cool.
<h00k> http://anthonyrhook.com/blog/2009/11/08/release-party-success/
<h00k> and he left.
<h00k> poo.
<tsmann> AnyOne Have Blogs?
<tonyyarusso> I do, although I've only posted two things recently.
 * tonyyarusso should get back to it.
<h00k> I do.
 * h00k shrugs
<fisch246> wow...
<fisch246> i got more done in this IRC, than anything else today...
 * tonyyarusso pokes h00k 
<tonyyarusso> he's back
<fisch246> yea sorry for leaving like that...
<fisch246> i might as well have stayed...
<fisch246> my instructor wasn't there during his scheduled times >.<
<fisch246> so i never got to take my test...
<fisch246> i really hate Normandale with a passion...
 * fisch246 steps off soap box
<fisch246> so... where were we?
<fisch246> mind setting up the RSVP thing when i get the notice of the event on the website?
<tonyyarusso> I'll try to get to that, sure
<fisch246> i'm gonna give them my email for contact info
<fisch246> when things get closer i might give out my phone number in case someone gets lost or what have you
<fisch246> i'm not one to be concerned about private info
<fisch246> ok i split it into sections... i have "why would you want to come?", "what to bring?", "where is the event?", and "how to contact us?"
<fisch246> what to bring is only money for pizza
<fisch246> maybe i should change it to "money for food"
<fisch246> since we don't know of the food source yet
<fisch246> as for "where is the event?" i have it has TBD
<fisch246> as*
<fisch246> so when we find a place it will be put there... basically just to tell people we don't know the location yet...
<fisch246> so any suggestions?
<tonyyarusso> not at the moment
<fisch246> and don't worry it will be expanded, and made to look "prettier"
<fisch246> hm... i may need to get a different picture...
<fisch246> i'll find a temp pic
<fisch246> until i get a confirmed "ok to use" notification about the one i showed you
<fisch246> http://picomol.de/2010/12/23/der-weg-zu-natty-narwhal/
<fisch246> countdown timers for natty
<fisch246> we could put the big one on the event
<fisch246> i'm also going to make a facebook event for it
<fisch246> entitled "Ubuntu Minnesota LoCo Team Natty Release Party"
<fisch246> a bit wordy :/
<tonyyarusso> We have a Facebook page too FYI
<fisch246> o haha cool
<h00k> tonyyarusso: woh, what?
<h00k> fisch246: Oh, yeah, I had sent links after you left about the sweet release party we had in Superior
<tonyyarusso> maybe it's a group rather than a page.  Whatever.
<tonyyarusso> http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=6904170209
<h00k> http://anthonyrhook.com/blog/2009/11/08/release-party-success/
<fisch246> i'll post the event when i creat it
<fisch246> create*
<fisch246> it'll be after the release... hopefully that weekend
<fisch246> for people around the metro
<fisch246> meaning somewhere around the area
<fisch246> like i said... we don't have a location yet
<fisch246> i hate making people drive out of there way
<h00k> you're not *making* them, I didn't *make* tonyyarusso drive to Superior for ours
<fisch246> haha
<fisch246> true
<h00k> ;)
<fisch246> well tony... you don't HAVE to come...
<fisch246> i won't be offended haha
<fisch246> you've been a lot of help :) don't need much else :)
<h00k> fisch246: Check out my link for any ideas that might help (people love prizes)
<fisch246> haha alright
<fisch246> well i'm hoping people will pitch in...
<fisch246> i can't even host a raid on LOTRO :/
<fisch246> how does door swag sound?
<h00k> door swag, like... a knob-hanger?
<fisch246> ha no
<fisch246> i mean like... at the door swag
<h00k> :D
<fisch246> on the way out stuff :P
<h00k> that'd be cool ;)
<tonyyarusso> As in door prizes.
<fisch246> well...
<fisch246> kinda...
<fisch246> just crap we're giving away for free that people can take with them haha
<tonyyarusso> That would be a door prize.
<fisch246> prize is more like you win something...
<fisch246> so if i want to add a widget to the post...
<fisch246> would i use an html code?
<tonyyarusso> widget?
<fisch246> http://picomol.de/2010/12/23/der-weg-zu-natty-narwhal/
<tonyyarusso> That would be better implemented as a block, where the download for Maverick is currently
<fisch246> mmk
<fisch246> well it isn't an official countdown timer
<fisch246> just something someone made
<fisch246> mmk event is up
<fisch246> on the loco homepage
<fisch246> mmk posted on the group page
<fisch246> can someone send me a free to use picture of an ubuntu logo?
<fisch246> for the facebook group
<fisch246> erm... i mean event
<tonyyarusso> See the Artwork page on the wiki
<fisch246> this isn't easy to find...
<tonyyarusso> http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/
<tonyyarusso> In PDF, because marketing people are stupid.
<fisch246> i found the logo assets
<fisch246> i wish more places used PNG
<fisch246> mmk got a pic
<fisch246> well cya, my friend wants to play minecraft
<fisch246> thanks for the help, both of you :)
<Takyoji> Anyone else affected by this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seahorse/+bug/556349
<Takyoji> "CPU Load goes to 100% when viewing saved credentials (not ssh keys)"
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: it pegs one core, yes.
<ripps_cr48> woo! chromeos notebook. I love free stuff
 * Takyoji sits in the corner jealous
<ripps_cr48> Yes, your envy is delicious...
<Obsidian1723> envy of what?
<ripps> Obsidian1723: I jst got a CR-48 ChromeOS from google for free
<Obsidian1723> cool, but I'm not envious of it.
<fisch246> well i've found a place around minnetonka that might be perfect for the party :D
<Takyoji> Woo
<fisch246> i'll just need to get RSVP's so i can set a date
<fisch246> the event is on the facebook group
<fisch246> also on the website
<fisch246> just email me if you want to come
<fisch246> or join the event
<fisch246> so far i only have 1 rsvp
<fisch246> hey tony, where do you come from?
<tonyyarusso> northern suburbs
<fisch246> ah ok
<fisch246> if it can't be that saturday... it might have to be delayed to a week or 2 later...
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-02-05
<Takyoji> Apparently my connection speed is 15Mbps
<Takyoji> Whereas it was originally 10Mbps
<Takyoji> Would be nice if my ISP focused on IPv6 support rather than a red herring of higher Mbps
<Takyoji> How have I not known of this before? http://opensourceforamerica.org/
<fisch246> o cool
<fisch246> i may bring that up in the next Open Source Brotherhood Summit
<fisch246> i'm proud to be apart of a non-profit organization for open source devs :)
<Jay-Cee> Ok, so I'm at http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/events and the only even showing is the maverick release, I know i've found a calender here before, but just can't get to it today
<Jay-Cee> Can anybody help me ?
<Jay-Cee> I got it figured out, I added a link to the calendar at the bottom of the events page
#ubuntu-us-mn 2012-02-01
<rwickstrom> Does anyone know how to install existing Google Cloud printers to an ubuntu box?
#ubuntu-us-mn 2012-02-02
<rwickstrom> (I'm running 11.10 as of this morning and just trying to clean up a few functional bits)
<rwickstrom> I found a driver on GIT hub, but I need to discover the URI of the printer...any thoughts?
#ubuntu-us-mn 2015-01-26
<PupuserDM1> Hello
#ubuntu-us-mn 2015-02-01
<culpower> Is this thing on?
