#ubuntu-doc 2005-04-04
<mdke> hi all
<sabmoc> mdke, hello hello
<mdke> hi sabmoc 
<sabmoc> hiya
<mdke> sabmoc, how are you doing?
<sabmoc> mdke, Im pretty good
<mdke> :)
<sabmoc> mdke, how are you this fine day?
<mdke> i am really well
<sabmoc> good stuff
<sabmoc> Im pretty busy, everything is so chaotic
<mdke> sabmoc, you should get your locoteam approved by the community council
<mdke> i forgot to tell you there was a meet yesterday. There will be another in 2 weeks i think
<sabmoc> yeah, I found out last night
<sabmoc> that was a big bummer
<mdke> sorry :(
<mdke> anyway
<sabmoc> Kinnison says they may have a meeting sooner but it will most likely happen in 3 weeks
<mdke> its no biggie
<sabmoc> yeah its ok, no biggie
<sabmoc> heh
<mdke> you can keep working
<sabmoc> I am
<mdke> and then get approval next week or whenever
<sabmoc> yeah we have sooo much to do
<mdke> cool
<sabmoc> mdke, do you know if there are any templates available for ubuntu style sites?
<mdke> not sure
<mdke> i recollect the dutch one is pretty similar to the ubuntu main one
<mdke> but the main one is changing soon anyhow
<sabmoc> They had a contest for the new look of the main site, is it possible that we get access to those files?
<mdke> erm
<mdke> shit
<sabmoc> or since it was a contest and canonical paid money for it, we are not aloud
<mdke> someone posted a test page yesterday at the meeting
<mdke> you can probably get hold of the log
<mdke> oh hang on
<mdke> i'll dig mine out
<sabmoc> ok
<mdke> check this out
<mdke> not sure what it is tho
<mdke> http://www.theopencd.net/ubu/index1.html
<sabmoc> lets find out!
<mdke> you wanna see the italian one? http://www.ubuntuitalia.org
<sabmoc> ooOOoo pretty :D
<sabmoc> I seem to remember that one getting second or third place, but to be honest I think its my favorite
<mdke> real sexy yeah
<sabmoc> yeah
<sabmoc> I think I need to learn python
* sabmoc adds python to the list
<mdke> lol
<mdke> you sound like a hard worker to me
<mdke> all that laziness talk was just show...
<sabmoc> knowledge is power, and the quest for knowledge never ends
<sabmoc> but I love being lazy
<mdke> hmm
<sabmoc> :P
<mdke> sounds like you're torn
<sabmoc> I am
<mdke> pick one or the other dammit
<sabmoc> haha
* mdke reserves the latter
<sabmoc> mdke, how can I get that index page?
<mdke> no idea
<mdke> you could find the guy who posted it
<mdke> nick: "hno73"
<mdke> without quotes naturally
<sabmoc> I dont know if matthias has plone or zope on his server, but I guess we'll need it
<mdke> how come?
<sabmoc> mdke, we have a site now
<sabmoc> ubuntu-ca.org :)
<mdke> ok will check it
<sabmoc> dont look its ugly!
<sabmoc> haha
* mdke winces
<sabmoc> *shudder*
<mdke> what's wrong with the normal wiki?
<sabmoc> I dont know
<sabmoc> well, matthias is hosting the site, and he setup a wiki for us on his server. At the moment we dont have a main page.
<mdke> ok
<sabmoc> hmm.. mabye its a better idea if we just use the main wiki
<mdke> not sure
<mdke> i like the idea of using the main wiki
<mdke> we use it for docs
<mdke> but mailing list for other group stuff
<sabmoc> Im asking myself; what is the advantage of hosting our own wiki?
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> i can't see one
<sabmoc> but for that I first need to know what our purpose is
<mdke> fewer hits probably too
<mdke> sabmoc, yeah obviously english speaking groups don't need to worry about docs or translating
<mdke> but the ideas on that page look pretty good
<mdke> #
<mdke> We plan to hook into all of the Canadian LUGS(Linux User Groups) from coast to coast.
<mdke> #
<mdke> We will offer a wide range of local community support for Linux users.
<mdke> sabmoc, maybe organise some promotional things
<sabmoc> yeah
<sabmoc> yeah I wrote that
<mdke> omg
<mdke> how can it be 01.45 already
<sabmoc> lol
<sabmoc> seems like I ask myself that everyday
<sabmoc> omg 3am?!?
<mdke> i thought i just got hoe
<sabmoc> mdke, I think I will ask matthias to take down the wiki and we will continue to use the main site
<mdke> *home
<mdke> sabmoc, no harm leaving it up for a while until you decide
<sabmoc> true
<sm-afk> sabmoc, that's not a zwiki
<sm-afk> nice skin though
<mdke> lol
<sabmoc> sm, hi
<mdke> hi simon
<sabmoc> sm, matthias set it up
* sm waves
<sabmoc> you guys are so helpful
<mdke> its a moin wiki innit?
* sabmoc renames the channel "#sabmocs_friends"
<mdke> heh
<sabmoc> mdke, the only good thing about hosting our own wiki is control, we would have complete control
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> germany hosts their own iirc
<mdke> and probably others
<sabmoc> Matthias is team leader for LoCo-germany so he is probably hosting theirs too
<mdke> you mean he is hosting your personally??!?
<mdke> *yours/his
<sabmoc> yes, on one of his servers
<mdke> i assumed it was ubuntu/canonical hosted
<mdke> how cool
<sabmoc> well he calls it "my server" maybe he is just the admin. I dont really know.
<mdke> sm,   can i just delete this line when converting from stx to moin: <dtml-var "'(Ce site tourne actuellement sur la version '"><dtml-var zwiki_version><dtml-var "').'"> ?
<sm> yes
<mdke> cool thanks
<mdke> bed i think
<sm> night
<mdke> heh
<mdke> going to bed is a long process for me
* mdke brushes teeth
<sabmoc> mdke, cya 
<sabmoc> have a good night
<mdke> gnight
<EricNeon> sabmoc
<EricNeon> how can I create a website for my team 
<EricNeon> I couldn't find "proposed" table on LoCoTeamList.
<sabmoc> EricNeon, I'll get the link
<sabmoc> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LoCoTeamList
<sabmoc> it says "New Community Teams, this is the list of porposed new teams"
<EricNeon> o,my god!
<sabmoc> haha
<sabmoc> :P
<EricNeon> I am wrong
<sabmoc> thats ok
<EricNeon> you can find I done after them in that site
<EricNeon> in edit table?
<sabmoc> yes, just add your team to the table
<EricNeon> pls look at this : http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LoCoTeamList
<EricNeon> whether I do right?
<sabmoc> it looks good to me
<sabmoc> the only thing I would change: instead of saying your local is "chinese" I would say just "china"
<EricNeon> I will change China to Chinese
<EricNeon> can you look  http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ ?
<EricNeon> I edit it ,but I can't look out it now
<EricNeon> This website maybe bloked by me,sorry!!!!
<sabmoc> you cant edit the wiki? sometimes that happens
<EricNeon> but maybe it is not my problem
<sabmoc> I will try
<EricNeon> help me!
<sabmoc> ok, I fixed it, it says "china" now
<sabmoc> maybe log out, close the browser, then try again
<EricNeon> okthank
<sabmoc> EricNeon, maybe we are going to have a chinese team in Canada someday
<sabmoc> EricNeon, let me know if you ever meet someone from Ubuntu who is Chinese but living in Canada
<sabmoc> EricNeon, my wife is chinese, but I am Canadian
<EricNeon> I am never meet them
<sabmoc> ok
<EricNeon> ha~
<sabmoc> :)
<EricNeon> how long time you fix the wiki site?
<EricNeon> I can't login now
<sabmoc> very quick
<sabmoc> how long does the page load for?
<sabmoc> 30seconds? 10 seconds?
<EricNeon> 10 sec
<EricNeon> where is ubuntu web server?
<EricNeon> USA?
<EricNeon> or Germany
<EricNeon> Site error
<EricNeon> This site encountered an error trying to fulfill your request. The errors were:
<EricNeon> Error Type
<EricNeon>     AttributeError
<EricNeon> Error Value
<EricNeon>     FrontPage
<EricNeon> Request made at
<EricNeon>     2005/03/24 05:54:01.251 GMT
<EricNeon> 
<EricNeon> self-accusationing
<EricNeon> are you ok
<sabmoc> EricNeon, hi
<sabmoc> EricNeon, I dont know where the server is located
<EricNeon> ubuntu wiki is ok?
<sabmoc> it looks ok to me
<sabmoc> everything is ok for me
<sabmoc> maybe there is some server lag near you
<EricNeon> butI looks it as
<EricNeon> Site error
<EricNeon> This site encountered an error trying to fulfill your request. The errors were:
<EricNeon> Error Type
<EricNeon>     AttributeError
<EricNeon> Error Value
<EricNeon>     FrontPage
<EricNeon> Request made at
<EricNeon>     2005/03/24 06:03:38.984 GMT
<sabmoc> I dont know
<sabmoc> maybe ask in #ubuntu-devel
<EricNeon> ohI will go to 
<EricNeon> sabmoclook at ours kubuntu screenshotuse chinses UTF8 locale
<EricNeon>  http://www.linuxsky.net/down/ftproot/incoming/f33k4/scrothot/01015.png
<sabmoc> EricNeon, nice! :)
<EricNeon> can you speek chinese?
<sabmoc> EricNeon, no
<EricNeon>  How could you wive a chinese girl?
<sabmoc> same was as a Canadian girl, boy meets girl, boy falls in love, boy marrys girl. Simple.
<EricNeon> hoho
<jsgotangco> hello
<EricNeon> hello
<jsgotangco> salut enrico
<enrico> jsgotangco: hi!
<jsgotangco> hmmm wiki seems borked
<EricNeon> 
<jsgotangco> EricNeon: are you using a chinese keyboard?
<EricNeon> US keyboard
<EricNeon> there is no chinese keyboard in chinese pc
<jsgotangco> ohhh i thought there was
<EricNeon> we all used US
<EricNeon> because linux users in chinese are all come from windows
<jsgotangco> what is the biggest PC maker in China? Legend?
<EricNeon> yes
<EricNeon> legend
<EricNeon> but never a pc make in Legend run linux
<jsgotangco> we have acer and ecs here but those are taiwan brands but have red flag linux installed
<EricNeon> hoho,red flag is a garbage
<EricNeon> few pepole like use it 
<jsgotangco> we overwrite them with ubuntu or slackware
<Kinnison> sabmoc: I said what about a meeting?
<jsgotangco> Sydney is easily one of the premier 'gay capitals' of the world. Every year, the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras is celebrated at the end of February, drawing people from all over Australia and the world for the celebrations.
<jsgotangco> oohh good thing were coming on april
<EricNeon> who manage ubuntu wiki?
<jsgotangco> im beginning to hate our wiki
<EricNeon> he will be sure to kill me
<enrico> jsgotangco: that's normal
<enrico> jsgotangco: add your issues to WikiWishlist and then you'll feel better for a while
<enrico> ;)
<jsgotangco> :D
<jsgotangco> WikiRantList is more appropriate lol
<jsgotangco> bbl
<EricNeon> my wiki front page is still as "Site error"
<EricNeon> I couldn't edit it
<enrico> EricNeon: same here
<enrico> Has it been notified to someone?
<EricNeon> I had tell to jdub
<EricNeon> but he said everthing is nice
<EricNeon> who manager wiki site?
<EricNeon> I'll mail to him
<enrico>  < jdub> enrico: yes, being looked at atm
<enrico> So they're looking at it
<EricNeon> I talking about it with them
<sabmoc> Kinnison, didnt you say that the CC might have a meeting sooner, but mostly likely it would be in at least 3 weeks?
<Kinnison> sabmoc: I'm not on the CC
<Kinnison> sabmoc: mako might have mentioned about it; but not me
<sabmoc> lol, sorry I have you mixed up with Kamion
<sabmoc> sorry about that
* Kinnison laughs
<Kinnison> Mostly 'cos Kamion is sat across the table from me right now
<sabmoc> HAH
<sabmoc> thats really funny
<froud> African Greetings
* froud is back alive and uncapped
<enrico> hello froud !
<froud> he he 'ello
<froud> upcapped at last
<enrico> I had a chat with jdub and I'm restyling the debian packaging so that our documents are installed following the gnome standards
<enrico> are you now the fastest .za-an on the web?
<froud> OK, what about the KDE standards?
<froud> no, just not capped anymore
<enrico> I don't know anything about the KDE standards
<froud> Hmm me niether
<froud> normally a developer just does it
* froud notices new names in the room, cool
<mdke> hi all
<froud> mdke: hello
<froud> cc: how you getting along
<froud> cc: since our last chat
<Burgundavia> salut
<froud> Burgundavia: hozit dude
<Burgundavia> not bad
<Burgundavia> got my first package in Ubuntu
<froud> Burgundavia: that means it could be better
<froud> Burgundavia: cool which
<Burgundavia> I have worked on so many the last few days, I don't remember
<Burgundavia> but there is work on qtparted from me
<Burgundavia> change to kdesu
<froud> what change
<Burgundavia> from gksudo to kdesu
<froud> I am working on the docs for kntwork-conf
<Burgundavia> cool
<froud> Oh cool
<Burgundavia> so actually looks native
<Burgundavia> has everybody read the log?
<Burgundavia> sm and I had a good discussion about fixing the wiki
<froud> No have not, what did you decide
<Burgundavia> not much
<Burgundavia> he asked what the 3 biggest annoyances were
<Burgundavia> he is zwiki dev
<Burgundavia> we deferred at lot of stuff to post hoary, when we can have a fuller debate and make some hard decisions
<Burgundavia> all the stakeholders, I mean
<froud> Cool, anything about round-tripping?
<Burgundavia> woot
<Burgundavia> no nothing like that
<froud> auh shucks
<Burgundavia> we ran out of time on the 2nd thing
<Burgundavia> I found a fix to my sound issues
<froud> would be cool to have round tripping
<Burgundavia> Quake3 and glest try and use /dev/dsp directly
<froud> dont have any on Kubuntu machine cause I dont have a sound device :-)
<Burgundavia> so I had to fill esd
<Burgundavia> s/fill/kill
<Burgundavia> I just found esddsp, which catches those requests and routes them through esd
<Burgundavia> if it is not running, then the game dies because it cannot access /dev/dsp (as esd has it)
<enrico> people, do you mind if I put about-ubuntu.xml into a subdirectory like the rest?
<enrico> froud: ?
<enrico> I have a problem because now I have to install it in a C directory, but doing so the various common, libs and so on would be ../common, ../libs
<froud> enrico: no, go ahead
<froud> makes sense to do so
<enrico> great!
<enrico> entity quickguide-rev not defined
<enrico> and uhm... about-ubuntu has an image now.  Should do make imagelist for it as well
<jsgotangco> ummm what happened to the wiki FrontPage?
<enrico> jsgotangco: looks fixed now
<jsgotangco> ah there
<mdke> erm
<mdke> from the FrontPage:
<mdke> Please discuss any changes to the ChineseTeam on the  Documentation List BEFORE making them
<jsgotangco> I KNOW
<mdke> i'll revert it
<jsgotangco> ill fix some parents as well
<mdke> gimme a sec
<enrico> these Chinese... always abusing wikis... :-)
* enrico ducks
<mdke> lol
<jsgotangco> lol
<mdke> omg
<jsgotangco> i guess he got so excited
<enrico> froud: I committed my changes.  Could you tell me how come with make imagelist there's no build/aboutubuntu.txt showing up?
<mdke> this bit is also a bit crazy:
<mdke> Other Resources
<mdke>     *
<mdke>       Archive - sources.list configuration and CD image repository
<mdke>     *
<mdke>       {i} [wiki:XautoconfigurationDebug If automatic configuration of XFree86 doesn't work] 
<jsgotangco> Eric Neon got pretty excited
<mdke> lol
<froud> enrico:  are there any pictures in aboutubuntu
<mdke> who is Jane Silber?
<enrico> froud: yes, one at least
<enrico> ../images/IconUbuntu.png
<enrico> mdke: Canonical's chief administrative something
<jsgotangco> well its kinda fixed now
<jsgotangco> its much better
<mdke> ok well she seems to be fixing it
<mdke> but she could just revert the changes ;)
<enrico> froud: did you find it?
<jsgotangco> is there something like a recycle thing on the wiki?
<mdke> jsgotangco, 
<mdke> yes
<jsgotangco> yes sir
<mdke> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/recycle_bin/name_of_page_you_want
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<mdke> jsgotangco, for pages which are deleted
<enrico> froud: there's another problem with the &quickguide-rev; entity: it points to ../quickguide/VERSION, but when I install it, the quickguide is in a directory named "C"
<enrico> froud: I solved it with a sub-optimal work-around
<Kinnison> Jane says the wiki frontpage should be back now
<froud> enrico: I am on the bongo-drums can chat now, will look at it
<enrico> bongo-drums?
<froud> enrico: telephone
<enrico> ah, ok :)
<enrico> froud: don't worry: everything works now (except the imagelist generation on the about-ubuntu)
<froud> enrico: svn up and try it now. It should be fixed
<froud> <!-- 
<froud> -Enrico:Ihavetosimplifythese,orit'saproblemwhenIinstallthe 
<froud> -packages:thefinaldirectorywherethedocumentationgoesiscalled"C",not 
<froud> -"userguide","quickguide"andsoon. 
<froud> - 
<froud> -Asaquickfix,I'llhardcodethevalues. 
<froud> enrico: I have planned for this with the next release
<enrico> planned what?
<froud> ^^
<froud> leave it hard coded for now
<enrico> Ok, good
<enrico> I didn't like to put it hardcoded, but I could see no other way out
<froud> when we restructure fo rgrumpy I take into account gnome/kde and the language files
<froud> it's ok for now
<froud> we need to rewrite and restructure stuff for next release, but only then
<froud> does make imagelist work for you now;-)
<enrico> yes, perfect, thanks!
<froud> no prob
<enrico> froud: I've committed the updates
<froud> enrico: cool
<froud> enrico: did the repository paths for hoary change or something
<enrico> repository paths?  Not that I know of, why?
<froud> synaptic cant find paths
<enrico> try again
<froud> did
<enrico> When I was uploading the new package, it gave me "connection refused"
<enrico> i retried and it worked
<froud> third time
<enrico> it may be that they're having problems
<enrico> ah, oh, ok
<enrico> try asking in #ubuntu, then
<froud> ok
<enrico> BuffaloSoldier: hello.  Did I read somewhere that you're Malaysian?
<BuffaloSoldier> enrico: yes i am
<enrico> Do you know Chua Wen-Kiat?  (the author of ubuntuguide.org) ?
<BuffaloSoldier> enrico: no. i haven't had the opportunity to meet him
<BuffaloSoldier> enrico: a lot of people are asking me about him though
<enrico> ah, ok.  I tried sending him some mails, but he isn't answering
<BuffaloSoldier> enrico: I'm not surprised, I think that guy has too much to handle at the moment :p
<enrico> yes, that was my impression, too
<enrico> ok, never mind, thanks!
<BuffaloSoldier> enrico: I myself sent and email back in november 2004... until now no reply :P
<mdke> lol
<mdke> change of address?
<enrico> well, he's been seriously sick for a while as well
<mdke> ouch
<enrico> then he came back, said he was great and back on rocking, then disappeared again :(
<mdke> OT, is anyone familiar with gmane?
<mdke> dudes
<mdke> is anyone writing a definitive guide for upgrading warty -> hoary?
<mdke> bump
<mako> enrico: did you get that message from jane about the text in the about section? she had some criticisms
<mako> it's a bit late but we need to change a few things.. i'm happy to make the change if nobody has yet
<enrico> mako: hi
<enrico> mako: jdub said he would post a review in the list
<enrico> mako: however, if we wait for jdub we probably get to the night before release
<enrico> mako: please do make all the changes you want
<enrico> mako: the preferred way is:
<enrico> 1) you checkout the repository
<enrico> 2) you edit at will
<enrico> 3) you post to the list the output of svn patch
<enrico> mako: reviews and feedback are very very welcome
<enrico> mako: esp. in the About Ubuntu, we've been asking for feedback for months now
<mako> enrico: sounds good
<mako> i've heard some doubt that jdub would get to it
<mako> so i'll do it
<enrico> mako: please.  Thanks a lot!
<mako> enrico: yeah, i didn't see a problem with but jane and some other did
<mako> well my brother is in the city for the next 3 hours only.. so it will be later this evneing :)
<mdke> sm, ping
#ubuntu-doc 2005-04-05
<EricNeon> morning all
<mdke> hi EricNeon 
<EricNeon> hi
<mdke> EricNeon, you made some slightly odd changes to the wiki this morning
<mdke> *yesterday
<EricNeon> yes
<EricNeon> I add a chinese table
<mdke> if you make a mistake, you can revert the changes easily
<mdke> i mean, to the Front Page of the wiki
<EricNeon> but when I select "undo",the wiki is down
<EricNeon> and I couldn't login
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> strange
<EricNeon> 
<mdke> i cant see those characters
<EricNeon> I tald this happen to jdub yestaday ,he should say "everthing is nice"
<EricNeon> todaythe front page of wiki seems ok
<mdke> yes it seems they have made a new one
<EricNeon> so graveness
<mdke> ?
<EricNeon> today ,I should edit my ubuntu-zh.org
<mdke> lol
<mdke> enrico, was that you moderating that msg through?
<mdke> i feel like such a dick
<enrico> mdke: yes
<enrico> I just moderated it in
<enrico> I received the notification of the message just now, though
<mdke> sorry :(
<enrico> mdke: for what?
<mdke> enrico, i sent an email a few minutes ago about the FrontPage
<enrico> oh, don't worry
<mdke> have now retracted it ;)
<mdke> enrico, come mai sveglio?
<enrico> mdke: non per molto :)
<mdke> bravo
<mdke> neanche io
<enrico> I was just closing stuff and going to bed
<mdke> k
<mdke> EricNeon, it seems that the FrontPage was accidentally deleted yesterday
<enrico> had a productive day, all things considered
<mdke> EricNeon, it was down for 7 hours, so that is why you couldn't access it
<mdke> enrico, yeah? glad to hear it :)
* enrico does a backup of the productive day :)
<mdke> heh
<EricNeon> yes I made it down since 11:00(+8:00)
<mdke> hmm
<enrico> EricNeon: not necessarily it is your fault
* enrico goes to bed
<EricNeon> 
<mdke> EricNeon, we can't read those characters: 
<EricNeon>  what characters?
<mdke> these ones: "EricNeon: "
<EricNeon> oh, this meens smile in chinese network
<EricNeon>  meens  smile,        and  :-(  meens  agony
<mdke> they appear as distorted characters because I don't have the chinese locale installed
<EricNeon> I used zh_CN.UTF-8
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> mako, hi
<mako> ergh
<mako> EricNeon: did you figure out what caused teh problem with the frontpage
<mako> EricNeon: it's clear you did not intend wrong but I've heard that it probably was you that made the misstep
<EricNeon> ok
<EricNeon> at first,I want make a wiki for my ubuntu-zh team
<EricNeon> so I look at wiki for help
<mako> cool
<mako> well, in most cases, it can be reverted automatically
<mako> but for some reason i don't understand, it couldn't be this morning
<mako> the important thing is that you know what happened so you don't do it again :)
<mako> we clearly want to see a wiki for the ubuntu-zh team! :)
<mako> EricNeon: in any case, we can get a wiki set up for you on a server we are using for loco teams
<EricNeon> thank you 
<mako> EricNeon: have you been in contact with matthias urlichs?
<mako> EricNeon: if not, give me your email address and i'll send you an email introducing you guys
<EricNeon> I had
<mako> ok.. did you talk to him about creating a wiki for the ubuntu-zh team?
<EricNeon> I want got a maillist for ubuntu-zh
<mako> EricNeon: ok.. you should also talk to matthias or to jeff waugh (jdub@canonical.com)
<mako> jeff has been a little unresponsive lately so maybe you can ping me if it's not created right away and i can help poke him
<EricNeon> smurf had help me create chinese team wiki
<mako> ok.. so you ahve the chinese team wiki already?
<EricNeon> but there is no Content
<EricNeon> www.ubunut-zh.org
<EricNeon> you can got it 
<mako> yes yes
<mako> so you should work on *that* wiki, not on the main one at www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/
<EricNeon> I see now!
<mako> you editing the main english wiki
<mako> which was bad
<mako> because it made the english wiki unsuable for most of today
<mako> the problem has been fixed now, but you should realize this so that it doesn't happen again
<mako> and only editing on the chinese wiki at www.ubuntu-zh.org
<EricNeon> yeah
<mako> cool! :)
<mako> then there is no problem :)
<mako> the important part is that we learn from our mistakes :)
<mako> how is the chinese ubuntu community going?
<mako> how many people are participating?
<EricNeon> thank you for your admonish
<EricNeon> chinese team have all of the best developers in chinese
<EricNeon> we not only for debian,but also every distrabution,include BSD and solaris
<EricNeon> we work at chinese input for X,and emacs in cjk,and for gnome /kde
<mako> oh wow.. that's great
<mako> we should definitely get to know how you are fixing things
<mako> can you make a list of input method pacakges and other packages that you think are essential for a chiense environment
<mako> fonts, input methods, etc
<mako> ?
<mako> we can get them installed by default when people select chinese language support
<mako> you should make a list with the other members and then email me at mako@ubuntu.com
<EricNeon> yes,this is just my help
<EricNeon> s/HELP/HOPE
<EricNeon> hoho~
<EricNeon> I will
<mako> that's great!
<mako> thanks
<EricNeon> I will sent a mail to you this day, and tell you about my work for 
<mako> that is great!
<mako> i am going to eat dinner now
<EricNeon> good appetite
<Skywind> hi , all
<Skywind> hi EricNeon 
<EricNeon> hi
<sabmoc> hi guys
<Liz> hiya
<Liz> alex
<Skywind> hi, sabmoc ~
<EricNeon> i am going to lunch now
<Skywind> enjoy lunch
<sabmoc> hi froud 
<froud> sabmoc: hi
<sabmoc> froud, hows life? :)
<froud> cooking with gas and chocolate since it is easter weekend
<froud> and you
<sabmoc> hahah
<sabmoc> how do you cook ^with^ chocolate?
<froud> nah the easter bunny already done that
<sabmoc> Im good too, a little hyper for no apparent reason
<froud> Hyper, hyper, hmmm cut down on the chocolate :-)
<sabmoc> more like cut down on whipcream
<froud> everyone has their fantasies
<froud> by life is no fun without them, so I say go ahead
<jsgotangco> hi
<sabmoc> hi jsgotangco 
<sabmoc> :)
<sabmoc> hows it going man?
<jsgotangco> im down with a flu
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> 2 days already
<jsgotangco> i havent been doing anything except translate the wiki
<jsgotangco> i noticed im much better writing in english than my native tongue (filipino)
<EricNeon> hi
<EricNeon> we are adding Content to wiki now
<jsgotangco> EricNeon: hi you got to fix the wiki yet? :D
<EricNeon> already no problem
<jsgotangco> :D
<sabmoc> jsgotangco, sorry to hear about that, get better soon!
<sabmoc> hi EricNeon 
<sabmoc> oh man, 2am already!
<jsgotangco> sabmoc: what happened to the breezy badger
<jsgotangco> hehe
<sabmoc> jsgotangco, what what??
<sabmoc> someone shot my badger?!?
<sabmoc> NNNooooo
<sabmoc> jsgotangco, let me guess, you are expecting regular badger updates now?
<EricNeon> 
<sabmoc> badger2.5_2ubuntu3.deb is now available for download
<jsgotangco> youre kidding
<sabmoc> yes i am
<sabmoc> im tired
<jsgotangco> then stop drinking red bull
<sabmoc> lol
<sabmoc> but redbut give you wings!
<sabmoc> Im going to sleep, goodnight guy
<jsgotangco> good night
<jsgotangco> i gotta start cokking for dinner
<jsgotangco> ill just come back later
<EricNeon> this is ours team members
<jsgotangco> bbl
<jsgotangco> where?
<EricNeon> http://www.ubuntu-zh.org/Wiki/ubuntu-zh
<jsgotangco> oohhh you got your wiki running already
<EricNeon> yes
<jsgotangco> thats good well i'll see you later then
<mdke> morning all
<abelli> ciao a tutti
<mdke> ciao
<abelli> mdke: ciao
<abelli> enrico: ciao
<enrico> ciao
<froud-work> maskie: how are the cows?
* sabmoc cracks the whip
<jeffsch> hi enrico
<jeffsch> I just committed fix to bug 8188
* enrico hugs jeffsch 
<enrico> jeffsch: great!
* jeffsch blushes
<jeffsch> actually i lied a little bit :(
<jeffsch> "window loads but title is stuck as Loading..."
<jeffsch> I don't know how to fix that
<jeffsch> yelp /usr/share/gnome/help/about-ubuntu/C/about-ubuntu.xml works fine on my system
<enrico> It may have been fixed in my last upload, where things have been reshuffled a bit
<froud-work> enrico: what's broken now
<enrico> Nothing, afaik
<enrico> Well, 
<froud-work> all works fine on my systems
<enrico> we miss the doc-base registration for the HTML versions (but jdub will have to tell me if that's needed at all)
<enrico> we miss translations (pinged the translators today)
<froud-work> ah yes
<enrico> we miss the documents in front of yelp (jdub, again)
<enrico> I don't know what else.  Maybe a trip through the bugzilla stuff would be helpful now
* froud-work greets Jeff
<enrico> Oh, and we probably miss an upload with version set to "1.0" :)
<froud-work> version set to 1.0
<froud-work> or to hoary
<enrico> The .deb is 0.4 so far (I increment by 0.1 at every upload)
<enrico> right
<enrico> But let's do it later on
<enrico> when's the release day?
<froud-work> who knows only you
<enrico> Oh  uh-oh...
<froud-work> ditto
<froud-work> :-) we muddle through
<enrico> let's see HoaryReleaseSchedule (the secret source of my wisdom :)
<enrico> April, 6th
<froud-work> is that still being kept too
<enrico> the 28th is the release candidate
<enrico> march, 28th
<froud-work> 3 days time
<enrico> ...for the others to do their job.  We're fine :)
<enrico> We've been for quite a while, even
<froud-work> yes
<froud-work> jeffsch: nice patch dude
<froud-work> jeffsch: and nice patches on update-manager too
<froud-work> jeffsch: it was decided to keep the ubuntu stuff in this version even though it is in GNOME cvs
* froud-work is bored. been porting OOo to DB for the past week
<jeffsch> froud-work: thanks.
* jeffsch blushes some more
<jeffsch> It will be easier to keep ubuntu stuff
<froud-work> mvo says they need to make changes for it to run on other distros
<froud-work> I have added credit to you as most excellent editor
<jeffsch> yes. especially the Edit Repository dialog
<jeffsch> it is very Ubuntu specific
<froud-work> hehe
<froud-work> well that is al teast one more thing moved upstream
<froud-work> I would like to see more stuff starting here and movingupstream
<froud-work> oh dude my fingers hurt
<jeffsch> you will need to send me all the changes you make so I can keep my version up to date
<froud-work> yes, I am waiting for GNOME CVS account
<froud-work> so I can commit
<froud-work> then you can do checkout from CVS
<jeffsch> froud-work: problem: hurt fingers. Solution: remove fingers from vise
<froud-work> he he no cant I must convert 600 pages of OOo Writer documents to Docbook by end of week end
<froud-work> but then the fun can start
<froud-work> It's current all about using Linux on Mandrake
<froud-work> so I am gonna profile it for Kubuntu
* froud-work grows horns again
<enrico> wow
<enrico> You're using the automated stuff for it, aren't you?
<enrico> there's even a ooo2dbk package that entered Debian recently
<froud-work> yes
<froud-work> but as you may know the python script needs the docs formatted against the ooo2db stylesheet
<froud-work> these docs are not
<enrico> gosh
<froud-work> so I get a part port
<froud-work> and have to hack the rest
<enrico> You're going to become a master in this kind of porting
<enrico> You'll have great feedback for the oo2dbk people
<froud-work> I am working on one file now that is 8706 lines long and it was larger before I started
<froud-work> ooo2db puts in loads of stuff that is not required
<froud-work> but its the last file
<froud-work> the other 6 are done, thank goodness
<enrico> wo-wow
<enrico> then you take a break and have people gently massage your hands
<froud-work> the whites of my eyes are now red and I promise I did not smoke anything green
<froud-work> are you offering
<enrico> Nice interpretation of the italian flag :-)
* enrico massages froud-work's hands
* froud-work stretches out his hands
* enrico does a bit of nail-cutting as well
<froud-work> :-)
<froud-work> can always count on you for a laugh
* froud-work fires up forrest
<enrico> One of my hidden strong intentions is to take a Clown course
<enrico> I'll do it sooner or later
<enrico> They make these courses about 200km from my house
<enrico> After the Clown course I'll become untolerable, probably :(
<jeffsch> i must go and re-caffeinate. bbl
* froud-work likes enrico's nose just the way it
* Burgundavia wonders when the ballon animals will start showing up
<froud-work> Burgundavia: hello dude
<Burgundavia> salut
<froud-work> I must be off, tired
<froud-work> c ya later
#ubuntu-doc 2005-04-06
<Skywind_> hi, all
<jeffsch> hello Skywind
<Skywind_> hello~, jeffsch
<froud-away> AFrican Greetings
<Liz> kia ora
<Liz> tho..im off again in a minute
<Liz> i have the cooking bug today
<Liz> so im baking up a storm
<Liz> heh
<froud> chocolate brownies please
<Liz> how about chocolate chip cookies instead?
<Liz> with nuts in it?
<froud> cool
<Liz> hot cross buns with chocolate chips in it
<Burgundavia> salut
<froud> nice to see you here again
<Liz> as well as banana and coconut with nuts in it as well
<Liz> greetings
<froud> Burgundavia: hi
<Liz> ill bbl
* Liz is away: I'm busy
* froud sips at hot mug of creamy coffee
<Liz> ooh..coffee
* Liz runs off
<Burgundavia> bah coffee
<Burgundavia> is 10pm here
<Burgundavia> coffee and other things might be a bad thing to have that time of night
* froud wonders why the mail box is so empty @08H17
<froud> but then you don't sleep
<Burgundavia> I do so!
<Burgundavia> I was up at 8am this morning
<Burgundavia> 8am PST that is
<froud> Burgundavia: have to reaquired the habit of sleep again? I am happy to hear it
<froud> just jibing dude
<Burgundavia> np
<Burgundavia> just out of idle curiosty, how many rands do you pay a month for adsl?
* froud check DNS, something is not right
<froud> about ZAR 1000 in all 2 X 3GB
<froud> hugely expensive for Africa
<froud> that is one of the problems we have
<froud> communications is expensive
<Burgundavia> ouch
<Burgundavia> $195 CAD
<froud> it means that most of the country cannot afford access to the Internet
<Burgundavia> do you have a static IP?
<froud> No
<froud> sucks
<froud> I have 512K down and 256 up
<Burgundavia> ouch
<Burgundavia> I get that $50 CAD
<Burgundavia> ~250 ZAR
<froud> http://www.telkomsa.net/products/adsl_telkom_internet.jsp
<Burgundavia> for 100 I would get a static IP and about twice that
<froud> yes
<Burgundavia> but Canada is one of the most wired counties on the planet
<froud> well we are fighting a monopoly here http://www.hellkom.co.za/
<Burgundavia> the telco here is ~3billion is debt building the ADSL network
<Burgundavia> but they are a virtual monopoly (they used to be the monopoly) and can afford it
<froud> http://www.telscum.co.za/
<froud> But in Canada most people can afford even a dialup
<Burgundavia> true
<Burgundavia> and local phone calls are free here
<froud> Here in Africa only a small percentage of people can afford it
<Burgundavia> once you pay the per month charge
<froud> it really holds back things like educations
<froud> The Shuttleworth Foundation and some partners did an Internet Fiesta recently
<Burgundavia> without early and constant exposure to computers/internet, it is very hard to become comfortable enough to get a job in the field
<froud> where they take and tent and computers out into rural areas for the kid to play on the Internet
<Burgundavia> cool
<froud> http://mithrandr.moria.org/blog/409.html
<froud> The Shuttleworth Foundation is doing some excellent work in this area
<froud> http://www.go-opensource.co.za/
<froud> another initiative to increase the use of FOSS
<Burgundavia> I have seen some of their stuff
<froud> have you seen Tuxlabs
<froud> http://www.tsf.org.za/index.php?option=content&task=blogsection&id=30
<Burgundavia> I want to convince them to bring me on as a volunteer
<Burgundavia> pay my cost of living and I will work for them for about six months
<froud> He he, yeah we have a for organizations like that in South africa
<froud> all of which are promoting FOSS as a solution to bridinging the digital divide
<froud> I help them by doing gift contributions to thier projects
<froud> but this helps little when things like communications are expensive
<froud> some people here work for as little as ZAR 80 a day
<froud> some less 60 / day
<froud> The divide between the haves and have nots is huge in Africa
<froud> you seriously want to volunteer?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> if somebody pays my board, I will volunteer for six months for nothing
<froud> do you know who to contact
<Burgundavia> I sent something about 2 months ago to the shuttleworth foundation
<froud> to who?
<Burgundavia> but I guess I got the wrong person, as I didn't here back
<froud> who did you mail?
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> just thinking
* froud goes off to get the email address
<Burgundavia> Zeenat Patel-Kaskar - Education Program Manager
<Burgundavia> I think
<Burgundavia> at tsf
* froud msgs address
<froud> He is very nice person
<froud> very lucid
<froud> speak to him
<jsgotangco> hello
<Burgundavia> salut
<jsgotangco> bbl
<froud> any reason why the pot files are not in SVN
<Burgundavia> no idea
<Burgundavia> well, maybe I do
<Burgundavia> the translators not having access?
<Burgundavia> and it being close to release?
<froud> Ok well I have done a comit of the files
<froud> so people can checkout
<Burgundavia> I saw that
<Liz> i have to start again..i lost everything when i had to reinstall ubuntu
<Burgundavia> Liz: ouch
<Liz> and im running on hoary now
* Liz is back (gone 02:09:35)
<Liz> ouch is right
<Burgundavia> I really should back up my stuff
<froud> Liz: why did you have to reinstall
<Liz> twice i had to do it in two days
<froud> but why
<Liz> i have two hdds..
<Liz> but when i hooked in the the linux hdd..it wouldnt boot
<Liz> so i tried to reinstall into a blank partition
<Liz> and overrode the wrong one
<Liz> twice
<Liz> both my ubuntu setup, and my slackware one
<Liz> so i wiped the whole drive and started again
<froud> next time try a boot diskette fist ;-)
<Liz> my floppy wont work
<froud> that way you can access lilo or grub and fix it
<Liz> boot diskettes wont work when i ask it to do that
<froud> oh dear
<Liz> they keep failing..
<Liz> and when i do boot up..it wont always boot up the floppy
<Liz> i was going to do it via the live cd
<Liz> but even if i did..i wouldnt know what i was doing
<froud> how far have you got into the LearnLinux course
<froud> it is explained there
<Liz> only just the first bit
<froud> Oh dear
<Liz> i didnt get a chance to go back to do the next bit with class and the install fest i was at just recently
<froud> well I have a drop of Learn Linux in SVN
<Liz> i was one of the helpers
<Liz> installing debian tho
<froud> perhaps you can learn while you write on it to make it for Ubuntu
<Liz> and i was surprised at how similar the install was
<froud> much the same
<froud> cause Ubuntu is based on Debian
<Liz> yes..i just didnt realise how similar
<Liz> the last time i installed debian, i could never get x to work
<Burgundavia> there is a lot of work to avoid forking
<froud> Oh well this is how we learn
<Liz> i had no experience with a non gui setup
<Burgundavia> so that packages and improvements can go back to debian
<froud> Burgundavia: I expect it will fork
<Burgundavia> in fact, almost all of universe is just debian
<froud> oh you mean the distro
<Burgundavia> yes
<froud> sure, loads ofwork
<froud> one would think it would be easier
<froud> like the docs
<Burgundavia> we are about to see another sync to sid, imm. after hoary releases
<froud> I would like to biuld on top of GNOME and KDE
<Burgundavia> but the docs, especially the user ones are very much base on what it looks like
<Burgundavia> which is based on Gnome/kde
<froud> yes, but a custom layer is possible
<Burgundavia> there again, Ubuntu tries to stick very close to gnome defaults
<Burgundavia> like the ubuntu update manager is going into gnome
<Liz> i havent tried kde on here yet
<froud> yes that's why I want to build the difference
<Burgundavia> and so is the app install
<Liz> i dont really like kde that much..tho some of their files are quite handy
<froud> Liz: this should help you http://www.inwords.co.za/kubuntu/inst/desktop-install.html
<Liz> i found the kde ppp dial up thingy much easeir to config than the gnome one
<Burgundavia> kolf is very cool
<froud> kppp
<froud> kde rocks
<froud> Kubuntu rocks
<froud> Burgundavia: yes I know about update-manager in GNOME CVS. I wrote the doc and Jeff did the edit
<froud> anyway, I did an experiment some time back
<Liz> personal preference i think..i have a small screen but i find that kde is huge even at 800x600
<Liz> i used to run it for a while there
<Burgundavia> but the difference is that most distros don't develop a tool in house and then push it back upstream
<Liz> till i fell in love with gnome
<froud> I was able to build GNOME and an abstraction for Ubuntu
<froud> yes this is the greatthing about Ubuntu
<froud> Liz: come to KDE
<froud> Kongi is caling
<froud> :-)
* froud goes back to work
<Liz> lol
<Burgundavia> Liz: what brought you to ubuntu (and linux generally)?
<Liz> ahh..you didnt read my post on learnlinux then?
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> I have been busy with packaging recently
<Liz> ahh
<Liz> ok...ive been using linux for about 7 years now..basically.. a friend nagged me to use it
<Liz> so i started by installing different ones
<Liz> at that time..only caldera would actually install on my old system
<Liz> and its just gone from there
<Liz> but last year, jeff waugh mentioned ubuntu on the slug (sydney lug) on the slug mailing list
<Burgundavia> so you have been using Ubuntu since almost the beginning
<Liz> i went to a meeting on the friday..where he showed a pre-released copy..saturday i was at a install-fest wehre they did another demo..got a copy of the pre-release version then..installed it..and been using it ever since
<Burgundavia> yah, I grabbed the Warty preview
<Burgundavia> I have only been using Linux since 2003
<Liz> iw as a little unsure about using debian..cause i felt it was for the more advanced user...but using ubuntu gets me closer to the goal of considering myself as an intermediate user of it
<abelli> ciao a tutti
<abelli> does someone here know a good way to audio-streaming (while clients are windows media player)?
<Liz> doesnt the windows media player have audio-streaming?
<abelli> Liz: im using linux
<abelli> and i dont have a windows box
<Liz> well..xmms does audio-streaming
<Liz> well used to..i havent tried it under hoary y et
<Liz> illd o that now
<abelli> really?
<Liz> yes..i used to listen to some of the ones linked to shoutcast
<abelli> o my Saviour
<abelli> Liz: have you ever tried it?
<Liz> yes..xmms works
<Liz> im connected to soulsvilleonline.com
<Liz> via xmms 
<abelli> Liz: what plugin should i use?
<abelli> mmmm no, i mean to stream.
<Liz> its playing streaming music
<abelli> ok thank you
* Liz is away: I'm busy
<abelli> enrico: bon jour
<abelli> enrico: something about audio streaming, not concerning polygen.
<abelli> enrico: dimme mpo' quello che sai.
<enrico> not much
<enrico> apt-get install icecast2 and work it out with the docs
<carlos> hi
<abelli> ciao
<carlos> This is the format of the translations tarball so we are able to import them automatically into Rosetta:
<carlos> source/debian/po/template.pot
<carlos> source/debian/po/en.po
<carlos> source/po/foolib.pot
<carlos> source/po/de.po
<carlos> source/po/en.po
<carlos> source/plugins/po/template.pot
<carlos> source/plugins/po/de.po
<carlos> source/plugins/po/en.po
<carlos> libfoo0/usr/share/locale/de/LC_MESSAGES/foolib.mo
<carlos> libfoo0/usr/share/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES/foolib.mo
<carlos> libfoo-plugins/usr/share/locale/de/LC_MESSAGES/foolib-plugins.mo
<carlos> libfoo-plugins/usr/share/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES/foolib-plugins.mo
<carlos> it's an example
<carlos> for the documentation you only need the "source/po/ tree"
<carlos> and name the tarball: PACKAGENAME_UBUNTUVERSION_translations.tar.gz (as: pmount_0.5-1ubuntu2_translations.tar.gz)
<enrico> carlos: you really don't like the mailing list, don't you? :)
<carlos> enrico: dude, I just wake up. I'm still sleeping :-)
<claude> could this be available somewhere on the wiki ?
<enrico> carlos: ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com
<carlos> claude: Yeah, perhaps it's a good idea to put it in the public wiki
<carlos> enrico: ok, will do after breakfast
<claude> so now that enrico knows how to do :), we can hope that doc should be in Rosetta soon
<enrico> claude: you better make sure someone else also knows how to: I'm packing now, leaving to Amsterdam for 2 weeks
<claude> enrico: will you post it on the ubuntu-doc ?
<enrico> I'll have rare network connection there, which I'll mainly use for my job: so, for Ubuntu things I'll only do emergencies (If I manage)
<enrico> claude: I'd appreciate if someone else does: plane is leaving in 4 hours, and I still haven't packed
<claude> i personnally don't have enough skills to understand the details
<claude> so maybe carlos could send the post
<enrico> claude: just try to understand the big picture, and maybe document it in the wiki
<enrico> that'd be very useful already
<enrico> and in trying to understand it, you'll ask to people and get them involved
<enrico> froud and trickie are the people to talk with wrt the docteam
<enrico> (Sean Wheller and Nick Loeve)
<claude> i'll see what i can do, good travel !
<abelli> enrico: ciao
<abelli> enrico: ti saluta anche tannoiser.
<carlos> claude: yeah, I will send the post
<abelli> carlos: hollllla
<enrico> abelli: :)
<carlos> abelli: hola!
<carlos> claude, enrico: mail sent
<enrico> carlos: thanks!] 
<carlos> np
<enrico> carlos: I moderated you in
<enrico> carlos: and added you to "always accept" filters
<carlos> enrico: ok, thanks
<claude> carlos: I've just subscribed to ubuntu-doc and maybe missed the post, could you resend to famille.paroz@bluewin.ch
<claude> :/
<carlos> claude: it should be in the web archive
<carlos> but don't worry, Will forward it now...
<claude> thx carlos
<carlos> sent
<claude> received :)
<Liz> nite all
<sabmoc> does moin have a tag to display <pre> </pre>?
<Burgundavia> don't know
<sabmoc> hi Burgundavia 
<sabmoc> i found it, its the {{{ }}} 
<sabmoc> Burgundavia, join #ubuntu-ca its just me an ryan
<seb128> hi
<Burgundavia> salut seb128 
<Burgundavia> what can we do for you?
<seb128> anybody know how to make a xml file with the po translation ? "xml2po -o fr/about-ubuntu.xml -p about-ubuntu.po about-ubuntu.xml" seems to have issue for strings with xml stuff
<seb128> about-ubuntu.xml:
<seb128> <subtitle>Welcome to Ubuntu Linux &distro-rev;: The &distro-version;
<seb128> Release.</subtitle>
<seb128> gives
<seb128> <subtitle>Welcome to Ubuntu Linux : The Release.</subtitle>
<seb128> ie: it doesn't use the translation and drips the "&...;"
<seb128> s/drips/drops/
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> I have never used it
<Burgundavia> froud: ping
<Burgundavia> froud is the best bet for that
<seb128> trying to make a french version of the "about ubuntu" :)
<Burgundavia> he is most knowledgable about this sort of stuff
<Burgundavia> sorry
<seb128> np
<froud> yep
<froud> sorry
<froud> here now
<Burgundavia> froud: the issue with po stuff
<Burgundavia> as above
* froud reads
<claude> is this not po2xml ?
<claude> it seems working for me
<froud> seb128: the value of the external entity is defined in /libs/global.ent which defines that the value must be taken from the file REVISION in the root of trunk 
<froud> If the entity is not expanded prior to use of of po2xml it will be void
<froud> opps xml2po
<froud> seb128:  but for now can you send me the new xml instance so I can test with it
<seb128> hum
<seb128> I've no new xml, that's the issue
<seb128> I've the xml file and a po file with the translation
<seb128> and I would like to generate the xml translation
<froud> and you cant reassemble it because this causes it to fail?
<seb128> what I said before
<seb128> about-ubuntu.xml:
<seb128> <subtitle>Welcome to Ubuntu Linux &distro-rev;: The &distro-version;
<seb128> Release.</subtitle>
<seb128> about-ubuntu.po:
<seb128> msgid "Welcome to Ubuntu Linux &distro-rev;: The &distro-version;
<seb128> Release."
<seb128> fr/about-ubuntu.xml:
<seb128> <subtitle>Welcome to Ubuntu Linux : The Release.</subtitle>
<seb128> 
<seb128> ups, po has 
<seb128> msgstr "Bienvenue sur Ubuntu Linux &distro-rev;: Version
<seb128> &distro-version;"
<seb128> 
<seb128> the generated fr/about-ubuntu.xml doesn't use the translation
<seb128> but that works fine for other strings, I think that's due to the "&...;" parts
<froud> Hmm. I see. Well so long as the DocType Decl is the same and in the folder relative to the en version it will work
<froud> the problem is that the DocType Decl has entities
<seb128> I need some other files ? 
<froud> and we have not yet made providion for folders by language
<seb128> I just have about-ubuntu.po and about-ubuntu.xml in my directory
<froud> You need trunk/
<seb128> oh, where is that ? 
<seb128> I've used to template sent by enrico on the list for the translation
<froud> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
<seb128> and grab the .xml from /usr/share/...
<seb128> k
<seb128> thanks
<froud> seb128: no thank you
<froud> seb128: but once the translated xml is in our trunk it will work
<seb128> I'm doing a checkout atm, a min
<froud> provided that the translated instance is relative to the en version
<froud> after hoary we will provision for languages
<claude> does this mean there won't be any translated docs for hoary ?
<froud> so for now just create your new file with the convention about-ubuntu-<lang>.po about-ubuntu-<lang>.xml
<froud> no there will be
<froud> claude: just cause we dont hav ethe folders does not mean we wont translate
<claude> ok, the -fr in the same folder than original
<froud> yes for now
<froud> after hoary we will be restructuring svn to accomodate l18n
<claude> seb128: i've succeeded in generating the -fr xml file
<seb128> in the SVN tree ?
<claude> no, locally
<froud> when you are ready you can just email the files to us
<seb128> I want to review it display in the browser
<seb128> I'll send it when it's reviewed :)
<froud> seb128: u can only do that when the xml file is in the same folder as the en document
<claude> yes, it was the case for me
<seb128> I've the english xml
<seb128> I've used the one in /usr/...
<seb128> half of the translation are fine, only the one with xml tags are not correct
<froud> Hmm. better to test in working copy of 
<claude> my command: po2xml about-ubuntu.xml about-ubuntu.po > about-ubuntu-fr.xml
<froud> but if you copy your localized doc into the aboutubuntu folder in usr/share it will also work
<seb128> I've a localized po file
<seb128> not a xml file
<froud> claude: can you add a page on how the translation cycle works in wiki
<froud> seb128: you must transform po back to xml
<seb128> I don't have a po2xml
<claude> oops, i'm still newby...
<seb128> froud: hum, I'm not clear ?
<froud> seb128: install xml2po
<seb128> "xml2po -o fr/about-ubuntu.xml -p about-ubuntu.po about-ubuntu.xml" seems to have issue for strings with xml stuff
<seb128> that's the right command or not
<claude> try to replace fr/about-ubuntu.xml with about-ubuntu-fr.xml
<claude> all files in the same folder
<seb128> k
<seb128> nop, doesn't work
<froud> seb128: are all files in the same folder
<seb128> yes
<froud> that is the aboutubuntu files
<seb128> in the SVN trunk it segfaults
<seb128> nice, lemme check what's wrong
<claude> my version of poxml(warty) : 4:3.2.3-2
<seb128> I don't have poxml
<froud> you need poxml
<seb128> I use xmp2po from gnome-doc-utils
<seb128> xml2po
<seb128> hum
<seb128> lemme try that 
<seb128> k, that's better with poxml, thanks
<froud> claude: can you document the pot/po file process
<froud> seb128: no worries
<froud> chaps we really appreciate the help you are giving
<seb128> I'll debug xml2po though, should work with it
<froud> can eithe rof you document the process for us
<claude> we talked with carlos this morning
<froud> and put in in the DocTeam wiki
<froud> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentationTeam
<claude> he's ready to put po/pot files into Rosetta Tuesday
<claude> that would change the process...
<froud> seb128: claude: i am goingy the seat of my pants on this ii18n stuff\
<froud> Ok but we need to know the basics
<claude> and facilitates work for translators
<froud> so we can make life easier for i18n
<froud> claude: who is ready, seb128 
<froud> ?
<seb128> about what ?
<seb128> enrico's template lacks some strings: /
<seb128> "Based on Debian, one of the most widely acclaimed, technologically advanced and well supported distributions, Ubuntu is yet another contender in what is already a hotly contested market. So what makes it different?"
<seb128> by example
<seb128> is not in the template
<froud> the pot is also in svn
<seb128> yeah, but he has mailed the list to get translations
<seb128> with a wrong template
<froud> Hmm, that's why I want this stuff in svn
<froud> lemme see what is in svn
<claude> froud: could you just create the blank page in the wiki, don't know the structure of the actual pages to place it right 
<froud> claude ok
<mdke> what's up guys?
<froud> claude: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepl18n
<claude> froud; thx
<seb128> "There are many GNU/Linux distributions (e.g., Redhat, SuSE, Debian, Mandrake)but
<seb128>                     Ubuntu distinguishes itself as a different, better, kind of distribution.<"
<seb128> this sentence is kind of weird
<froud> :-)
<seb128> I don't feel that the "better" should be here
<froud> seb128: you dont hav ethe HEAD version
<froud> Jeff made a patch for Jane
<froud> and you dont have our HEAD
<seb128> I've the current CVS
<seb128> ups
<seb128> SVN
<froud> seb128: can you take the stuff from SVN
<seb128> svn update about-ubuntu.xml
<seb128> At revision 772.
<seb128> I've just taken this one
<seb128> svn/trunk/aboutubunt/about-ubuntu.xml
<froud> Hmm that is correct
<froud> is that the one missing strings
<froud> can t be
<seb128> ?
<froud> or did you use the one mailed to the list
<seb128> I've worked on the one from the list
<seb128> and I'm merging with the SVN now
<seb128> this xml is from the SVN
<seb128> -            <para>There are many GNU/Linux distributions in the world, some are built from the
<seb128> -                ground up and some are based on others, each has aimed to perfect the platform and
<seb128> -                its desktop. However only a few ever remain, with names such as Debian, SuSE, RedHat
<seb128> -                and Mandrake being the most notable.</para>
<seb128> +           <para>There are many GNU/Linux distributions (e.g., Redhat, SuSE, Debian, Mandrake)but
<seb128> +                    Ubuntu distinguishes itself as a different, better, kind of distribution.</para>
<seb128> 
<seb128> that's the diff between both
<froud> yes that was Jeffs patch
<seb128> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/aboutubuntu/about-ubuntu.xml
<seb128>  	    <para>There are many GNU/Linux distributions (e.g., Redhat, SuSE, Debian, Mandrake)but
<seb128>                     Ubuntu distinguishes itself as a different, better, kind of distribution.</para>
<seb128> 
<seb128> the string is in the SVN for sure
<froud> the second one is yes
<froud> but not the first
<froud> if  you like I can change the better for you
<froud> delete it if you like
<seb128> that's just a bit pretentious
<froud> Ok hang in there I will delete
<seb128> thanks
<froud> seb128: ok svn up
<froud> you have a new revision of the xml and pot
<froud> in trunk/aboutubuntu
<froud> chaps I must go. Please email the list with any problems or if you want to commit files/patches.
<claude> froud: bye
<froud> Burgundavia: can you handle any commits
<froud> claude: show
<Burgundavia> sure
<Kinnison> burger!
* Kinnison snogs
* froud-away send thats form bed
<Burgundavia> ?
<Burgundavia> to both of you
* froud-away send thanks from bed
<Burgundavia> ok
<froud-away> seb128: you ok now?
<seb128> yep, thanks
<seb128> I'll mail a french version tonight
<seb128> BTW you guy should freeze the strings now
<froud-away> cool, night night dont let the bed bugs bite
<seb128> 'night
<froud-away> I will tag once we have l18n
<carlos> claude: the right term is "carlos will try to get it into Rosetta on Tuesday" ;-)
<seb128> carlos: you suck
<seb128> translations are a real mess for hoary
<carlos> seb128: I love you too :-)
<seb128> I'll fix the french one but I guess we will not have other complete stuff
<mdke> i suggested on the list that I contact the italian group to get translations done.
<mdke> is anyone interested in this?
<mdke> perhaps we could contact other groups?
<claude> i think if we could add this stuff into Rosetta, things could go quickly (carlos, don't feel stressed :-)
<mdke> *coughs*
<carlos> claude: as soon as you have clear that application translations have preference in my task queue, that's fine for me
<claude> in your last mail, you speak about possibility to let someone upload pot files directly into Rosetta
<claude> think froud should be able to do it (enrico is away for two weeks)
<claude> we'll discuss it in the mailing list as soon as Rosetta will be up again
<carlos> claude: ok
<mdke> *coughs*
<Burgundavia> this issue with rosetta is large blocks of text correct>
<Burgundavia> ?
<claude> mdke: you should stop smoking :)
<Burgundavia> do you guys need me to commit to the svn doc repo?
<claude> i'm leaving now, bye
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> courteous
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> could also be 2nd lang stuff
<Burgundavia> I know I don't sound very friendly in french
* Kinnison is sure you sound lovely in french
<Kinnison> </pred>
<mdke> lol
<mdke> but my question wasn't answered
<Burgundavia> but I don't look lovely in french maids outfits
<mdke> in any language
<Burgundavia> mdke, go nuts
<Burgundavia> well, maybe not
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: I'm not convinced that anyone does
<Burgundavia> http://www.threewisheslingerie.com/french.asp
<Burgundavia> but then again, those kind of people don
<Burgundavia> do anythng for you
<mdke> Burgundavia, i wont go nuts, but i was just trying to help out
<Burgundavia> hey coo
<Burgundavia> that site even uses thawte
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: those photos are very giggleworthy
<Burgundavia> http://www.threewisheslingerie.com/images/openmaidset.JPG
<Burgundavia> I like that one
<mdke> bah
<Burgundavia> I realize that there are a lot of good games for linux
<Burgundavia> you just have to find them
<Burgundavia> thus I want to promote them better
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: slag :-)
<Burgundavia> ?
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: seminekkid french maid
<mdke> you guys are always flirting ;p
<Kinnison> No dear. I'm always flirting
<Burgundavia> lol
<mdke> lol
<mdke> he doesn't flirt back?
<mdke> unrequited irc love... sucks
<Burgundavia> I want to be the camera man
* Kinnison laughs
<Burgundavia> I haven't heard back from mako yet
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: feelthy voyeur
<Burgundavia> rofl
<Burgundavia> mdke: your ears couldn't take it?
<Burgundavia> -- mdke has quit (Excess Flood)
<mdke> weird disconnection
<mdke> holy shit
<mdke> i flooded in a /query???
<mdke> bizarre
<mdke> is that possible?
<mdke> so can i take it that the translation team doesn't need extra translators?
<carlos> mdke: I doubt it, you should talk with people for the language you are interested on, I'm sure they will be happy to get more help
<mdke> i'm not interested in a specific language
<mdke> i was suggesting perhaps contacting the locoteams
<mdke> and specifically i volunteered to contact the italian team
<Kinnison> coo; you've scared burgey off
<mdke> me?
<mdke> :(
<Kinnison> yeah; must be you 'cos I'm lovely and sweet
* Kinnison hugs mdke 
<mdke> you scare meeeeeee
<mdke> did you watch dr who this evening?
<Kinnison> yep
<Kinnison> was good
<mdke> good huh?
<mdke> i liked it
* Kinnison thought it was so utterly awful that it just might work
<mdke> hmm
<Kinnison> this is the campest doctor we've had in ages
<Kinnison> it's wonderful
<mdke> whoa that's saying something
<mdke> i think the scripting is good
<mdke> lots of funny lines
<Kinnison> Russell T. Davis good.
<mdke> billie is good ;)
<mdke> everything good
<Kinnison> "Many planets have a north"
<Kinnison> I loved that line
<mdke> LOL
<mdke> so good
#ubuntu-doc 2005-04-07
<Burgundavia> hello
<sabmoc> hi
<sabmoc> Burgundavia, is there a place to submit howto's and stuff? 
<Burgundavia> what do you mean?
<Burgundavia> the wiki?
<sabmoc> I mean for more than just wiki, does ubuntu collect howtos or just the standard documentation listed on the docteam wiki.
<trickie> sabmoc, i guess the best option would be if you could write a howto in docbook format
<trickie> sabmoc, then it can be transformed into wiki markup, or added into existing documentation in the SVN repos
<trickie> but straight onto the wiki is another option
<sabmoc> well I just wrote a little howto on the wiki earlier today before work
<trickie> or post a link to the ubuntu-doc mailinglist
<sabmoc> Ok, I'll do that
<trickie> cool. Maybe post what it is about to the mailinglist
<trickie> :)
<sabmoc> its not very useful, but you never know
<trickie> everything helps
<trickie> I find that it takes a few small things for me to get comfortable with contributing to a team
<sabmoc> heh, sometimes nothing helps :D
<sabmoc> yes, I kind of joined during a slow period between releases.
<trickie> i reckon for the kind of thing the doc team is doing even a start is good
<Burgundavia> after hoary releases, I am going to be working on getting lots of good, small howtos together
<trickie> otherwise noone may do it
<sabmoc> I actually like documenting 
<trickie> Burgundavia, there is a wealth of small things in the wiki... it keeps getting bigger
<sabmoc> Burgundavia, you can add this if you want it https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GPGsigningforSSHHowTo
<Burgundavia> that is kind of stuff I want to add to docbook stuff
<sabmoc> ok, that will give me a chance to brush up on docbook
<trickie> that would be good for adding to the admin guide
<sabmoc> really? cool
<trickie> do you know how to checkout the docteam repos?
<sabmoc> I I haven't done it yet 
<sabmoc> but its not a problem
<trickie> cool, the admin guide is there already, Sean has added a bit of content, but the structure is not 100% defined yet
<sabmoc> oh ok, I was looking at the html version and I noticed it was kind of empty. I asumed that the svn was full of content and the html just hadn't been updated
<trickie> no, it will not be ready for Hoary
<sabmoc> aww :(
<sabmoc> its looks really cool
<sabmoc> it likely to make it in for warty?
<sabmoc> or uh, whatever the name of the next release will be..
<trickie> Yeah! i hope to work on it soon... it would be great 
<trickie> i think it is grumpy??
<trickie> not sure actually
<sabmoc> thats the one!
<sabmoc> and next after grumpy is breezy
<sabmoc> its the seven dwarves
<sabmoc> warty, grumpy, breezy, sleezy, and charles
<trickie> :)
<trickie> Well i am off... nice to meet you
<sabmoc> nice to meet you too trickie :)
<Burgundavia> the name of the next release is breezy
<sabmoc> Burgundavia, that is the name of the release after the next release.
<sabmoc> Im pretty sure
<Burgundavia> ?
<Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=20381
<sabmoc> Burgundavia, omg
<sabmoc> I even read that email
* sabmoc slaps his forehead and says "doh"
<Burgundavia> lol
<Burgundavia> there was a lot of confusion regarding the name
<Burgundavia> wiki still says grumpy a lot of the time
<Burgundavia> there was talk of a sid-style rolling unstable as well
<Burgundavia> that was going to be called grumpy
<Burgundavia> I don't know what ever came of that
<sabmoc> well I was under the impression that grumpy was next and then breezy after that
<sabmoc> but that email is pretty clear, and I think breezy makes for a better choice
<Burgundavia> no mention of having a rolling unstable in it though
<Burgundavia> what I heard came directly from marks mouth in Mataro
<froud> African Greetings
<jsgotangco> ei just a heads up i think we have wiki disaster again
<mdke> this frontpage business is extraordinary
<jsgotangco> i know
<jsgotangco> tsk tsk
<mdke> i see who did it i think
<mdke> i think i can get it back
<jsgotangco> hold on ill reboot
<mdke> done
<mdke> anyone know how to contact people who make changes like deleting the FrontPage?
<mdke> ok i gtg
<mdke> happy easter all
#ubuntu-doc 2005-04-08
<skyrider> anybody alive?
<mdke> yes hi
<skyrider> hi
<skyrider> Where can I download pot files for QuickGuide, About Ubuntu page and Release
<skyrider> notes
<mdke> for translation?
<mdke> you need to contact the translation team i believe
<skyrider> Yes. I'd like to help to translate them into Russian
<skyrider> mdke: I know I will answer that way :(
<mdke> ?
<skyrider> Translation team doesn't have their irc channel?
<mdke> oh right
<skyrider> :(
<mdke> no
<mdke> they have a mailing list
<mdke> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TranslationTeam
<mdke> mailing list -> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
<skyrider> I know about mailing list, but it feels mostly useless.
<mdke> why?
<mdke> you didn't get an answer?
<mdke> that is definitely the place to start
<skyrider> Actually I don't asked yet but I've read archives of that list and saw much more questions than the answers :(
<mdke> well that is about the only place you can start
<skyrider> ok, thanks.
<skyrider> But Translation team definitly needs irc channel
<skyrider> :)
<mdke> heh
<skyrider> where I can download latest content of ubuntu-docs package? SVN repository?
<mdke> yes
<mdke> hang on a sec
<mdke> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepRepository
<skyrider> thank you very much, mdke 
<mdke> pleasure
<mdke> i'm matt btw
<mdke> pleased to meet you
<skyrider> mdke: I'm Alexey.
<mdke> hi
<skyrider> Nice to meet you.
<skyrider> mdke: where are you from?
<mdke> london uk
<skyrider> I'm from Ukraine
<mdke> ok
<mdke> hi trickie 
<sabmoc|wrk> hi mdke 
<mdke> hi sabmoc 
<mdke> how are you matey
<sabmoc> not bad not bad
<sabmoc> and how are you?
<mdke> good thanks
<mdke> sabmoc, what are you up to?
<sabmoc> I am just about to check out the documentation for svn
<sabmoc> from* the svn repo
<sabmoc> I wrote up a little howto and now Im going to rewrite it in docbook
<mdke> k
<sabmoc> then Im going to send a patch to the mailing list adding it to the admin guide
<mdke> ok cool
<mdke> whats the doc on?
<mdke> gpg key?
<sabmoc> yes, the gpg key signing for ssh
<mdke> nice doc
<EricNeon> morning all!
<sabmoc> thanks, originally it was an email to a friend, but he it was good and I should make it into a howto, so I did
<mdke> hi EricNeon 
<sabmoc> hello EricNeon 
<EricNeon> hi~
<mdke> sabmoc, i know nothing about gpg keys
<mdke> i was very interested in the howto
<EricNeon> mdke
<mdke> what else are they useful for?
<sabmoc> cool :) 
<EricNeon> at first ,you could install gnupg
<mdke> it is installed by default in ubuntu i think
<EricNeon> and used "#gpg --gen-key"  to create a gpg key for you
<sabmoc> most people just attach a sig to outgoing email so if people bother to check the sig they can verify the email came from the correct person. But there are a lot of uses.
<mdke> yeah i can't see that being useful for me
<mdke> no one would check mine
<sabmoc> me neither
<mdke> but maybe for ssh
<sabmoc> yeah ssh is a practical use for ssh
<sabmoc> err.. gpg is a practical use for ssh
<mdke> what else can it do?
<sabmoc> you can use it to encrypt a document so that only the intended recipient can decrypt it
<mdke> i've noticed people post their keys on wiki pages tho
<mdke> doesn't that mean anyone can get it and decrypt
<sabmoc> no
<sabmoc> I dont like the idea of putting public keys on wiki pages, but thats another issue
<sabmoc> basically with gpg, you have two keys
<sabmoc> one is public, one is private
<sabmoc> Ok, here is an example
<sabmoc> I want to send you a file
<sabmoc> I will encrypt the file using YOUR public key, and MY private key.
<sabmoc> for you to decrypt the file, you will need MY public key, and YOUR private key
<sabmoc> so its a four key system, we exchange our public keys, but never never our private keys
<mdke> ok i see
<mdke> pretty cool
<sabmoc> yeah, its a very secure way to transfer any material between two partys
<sabmoc> ssh works on a very similar principle
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> i will check out that doc
<mdke> often i use putty to access my home computer
<mdke> can that by gpg protected too
<mdke> ?
<sabmoc> if its your home computer there is not any point, because it will only be you who will access it
<sabmoc> but if you want to let a stranger log in, then yeah
<mdke> but wouldn't it be securer to protect ssh access with a key?
<sabmoc> it already does
<sabmoc> when you first log into a computer with ssh, that computer will ask your computer for its public dsa_id key
<sabmoc> ok here is another example
<sabmoc> you want to log into my computer
<sabmoc> wish ssh
<sabmoc> with*
<sabmoc> now instead of just allowing you to log in from any computer anywhere, and using any user name... I will say mdke: you must email me your public dsa_id ssh key.
<mdke> i don't think my ssh server does that
<sabmoc> yes it does
<mdke> oh
<sabmoc> if you try to log into a new server it will say something like "server not in list, do you want to permanently add it"
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> and i say, yes
<sabmoc> and when you say 'yes' your computer sends your public key to the server you are loging into
<mdke> ok
<mdke> how does that protect the computer i'm logging into?
<sabmoc> it doesnt
<mdke> oh
<sabmoc> because really you could be anybody loging in
<sabmoc> but if you restrict the public keys to only users that have physically emailed their public key to you, then its safer
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> ok that's what i mean, so i could set up my ssh server to do that
<sabmoc> because then only those users, _using only those computers that they used to generate the public key_ can log in
<mdke> ooh
<mdke> so a user couldn't use their public key on a different computer to log in?
<sabmoc> they would need to make a public key for that computer
<sabmoc> normally that happens automatically
<mdke> right
<sabmoc> a public key is for one user, on one particular comptuer
<sabmoc> but thats just with ssh
<sabmoc> gpg is not computer specific
<mdke> ok
* sabmoc gets his tinfoil hat 
<sabmoc> haha
<mdke> thanks for explaining it to me
<sabmoc> np bud
<sabmoc> I can not view the ubuntu-docs xml files using yelp, is that normal?
<sabmoc> anyone awake?
<Liz> its not normal
<Liz> it should work
<sabmoc> Liz, should I also be able to build the documentation right out of the box?
<sabmoc> I think I am missing some files
<sabmoc> can I flood the channel for about 10 lines?
<Liz> i know it was included in hoary..no idea in warty..other than what we were using
<Liz> sure..go for it
<sabmoc> $ make qg
<sabmoc> Building the Ubuntu Quick Guide . . .
<sabmoc> mkdir -p build/quickguide/
<sabmoc> xsltproc --xinclude --stringparam base.dir build/quickguide/ libs/html-cust.xslquickguide/quickguide.xml
<sabmoc> warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl"
<sabmoc> compilation error: file libs/html-cust.xsl line 7 element import
<sabmoc> xsl:import : unable to load /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl
<sabmoc> make: *** [qg]  Error 5
<Liz> ive just reinstalled warty
<Liz> let me give it a go
<sabmoc> Im using hoary
<Liz> i never tried it in hoary
<Liz> im going to do a dist upgrade shortly tho
<sabmoc> but doing `yelp quickguide/quickguide.xml` does not work
<Liz> well..looks like i dont even have the files installed
<sabmoc> yelp says "could not load document: The uniform resource identifier `file://quickguide/quickguide.xml' is invalid or does nto point to an actual file.
<sabmoc> s/nto/not/
<sabmoc> well then, huston we have a problem
<Liz> froud would be the one to ask when he gets back
<sabmoc> I will keep my eyes open for froud >_>
<sabmoc> <_<
<sabmoc> O_o
<sabmoc> froud-away, poke poke
<Liz> and im gonna go do my dist-upgrade
<sabmoc> ok
<froud> African Greetings
<froud> sabmoc: ping
<sabmoc> froud!
<froud> hi di dyou fix that problem yet
<sabmoc> no, I just started fooling with mod_python and lost all track of time.
<sabmoc> but If you have time I am ready now
<froud> ok let's deal with the first problem
<froud> warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl"
<sabmoc> yes
<froud> This is the top of /trunk/libs/html-cust.xsl
<froud> <xsl:stylesheet xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform" version="1.0">
<froud>     <!-- This file is a customization layer for HTML only -->
<froud>     <!-- ======================= -->
<froud>     <!-- Imports -->
<froud>     <!-- <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl"/> -->
<froud>     <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl"/>
<froud>     <xsl:include href="common-cust.xsl"/>
<froud> uncomment the first xsl:import
<froud> comment the second one
<froud> then while pwd is trunk/
<sabmoc> froud, I dont have /trunk/*
<froud> the root of your repos will do
<froud> trunk is your root
<sabmoc> ah i see
<froud> do ./validate.sh quickguide/quickguide.xml
<froud> that will tell you if the quickguide in your WC is valid or not
<froud> if you get errors then you have problems
<sabmoc> no errors on validate
<froud> Ok so yelp quickguide/quickguide.xml
<froud> it should open
<froud> bingo, end of technical support call
<sabmoc> it does not, says vile is invalid or does not point to an actual file
* froud passes a hat around for any small change
<sabmoc> let me restart yelp
<sabmoc> yes it works now
<froud> OK
<sabmoc> hmm.. I had yelp open for about a week :) never thought of restarting it
<froud> now you can do make qgg
<froud> make qg
<froud> and watch it work
<froud> sabmoc: you're on warty right
<sabmoc> $ make qg
<sabmoc> Building the Ubuntu Quick Guide . . .
<sabmoc> mkdir -p build/quickguide/
<sabmoc> xsltproc --xinclude --stringparam base.dir build/quickguide/ libs/html-cust.xsl quickguide/quickguide.xml
<sabmoc> warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl"
<sabmoc> compilation error: file libs/html-cust.xsl line 6 element import
<sabmoc> xsl:import : unable to load /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl
<sabmoc> make: *** [qg]  Error 5
<sabmoc> no hoary
<froud> did you install docbook xsl
<sabmoc> maybe not
<sabmoc> lol no i didnt
<sabmoc> sorry!
<froud> Ok install
<froud> then depending on where it is installed you will need to comment / uncommnet the xsl:import
<sabmoc> alright
<froud> you do hav ethe DTD installed right?
<sabmoc> which one
<froud> we are using 4.1.2 cause of scrollkeeper problems
<froud> but you can also install 4.3
<froud> if you have both in your xml catalog then processing will not go to the network and so will be faster
<sabmoc> Im not sure which packages I need to have installed
<sabmoc> Im still getting a build error
<froud> what did you install
<sabmoc> docbook-xsl
<froud> ok and what is the error
<sabmoc> warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl"
<froud> Ok, comment that line and uncomment the other xsl:import
<froud> in libs/html-cust.xsl
<sabmoc> these are my lines, which should I comment
<sabmoc> <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/pr\ofile-chunk.xsl"/>
<sabmoc>     <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl\"/>
<sabmoc>     <xsl:include href="common-cust.xsl"/>
<froud> It should look like this
<froud> <xsl:stylesheet xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform" version="1.0">
<froud>     <!-- This file is a customization layer for HTML only -->
<froud>     <!-- ======================= -->
<froud>     <!-- Imports -->
<froud>     <!-- <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl"/> -->
<froud>     <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl"/>
<froud>     <xsl:include href="common-cust.xsl"/>
<sabmoc> OOOOooo, its working :)
<sabmoc> done
<froud> nice
<sabmoc> so what exactly did that build?
<sabmoc> yes, nice! thanks man 
<froud> the quick guide
<froud> look in build
<froud> the build dir is created duing the make
<sabmoc> ah the html version
<froud> it is not part of the repos
<sabmoc> with css! nice
<froud> since the html version :-) is presentational layer
<froud> yes you know css
<froud> you can customize it if you like via /libs/*.css
<froud> sabmoc: the idea with docbook is that you can build documentation they way it should be built
<froud> from the src
<froud> any target formats derived by transformation are never edited
<froud> only the xml
<froud> hence we dont have HTML, XHTML, RTF, or PDF in the repso
<froud> repos
<sabmoc> so only docbook in the repo
<froud> yes
<froud> and support scripts
<sabmoc> very cool
<froud> All yelp does is transform the xml inline
<froud> yelp has xsl stylesheets compiled into it
<sabmoc> do we have a docbook template somewhere?  I have a small document I want to convert from the wiki
<froud> when yelp loads a docbook xml document it produces html
<froud> no we dont
<froud> what is the document
<sabmoc> froud, really! so in yelp I am actually looking at html
<froud> yes
<sabmoc> thats cool
<froud> yelp is dynamic transform
<froud> the make qg is a static transform
<sabmoc> this doc https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GPGsigningforSSHHowTo
<froud> Hmm nice a HowTo
<sabmoc> apparently some people claim it is useful so I was going to submit it as a patch to the admin guide after I get it into docbook from
<sabmoc> thank you
<froud> you can use docbook article format for that
<froud> here is a template
<froud> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<froud> <!DOCTYPE article PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN"
<froud>                          "http://www.docbook.org/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd">
<froud> <article>
<froud>     <title>Article Title</title>
<froud>     <sect1>
<froud>         <title>Section1 Title</title>
<froud>         <para>Text</para>
<froud>     </sect1>
<froud> </article>
<froud> When you are ready I will put it in my branch
<sabmoc> you are a very fast typer :)
<froud> you mean copy paster
<sabmoc> ok, that template will save me several hours at least :D
<sabmoc> you are a fast clicker
<froud> what do you use to edit
<sabmoc> emacs xml mode
<froud> Hmm emacs+psgmls hey
<froud> nice
<froud> if you like you may want to write the section on GPG in the User Guide
<sabmoc> yes, actually I guess it is called nXML mode, I dont know what the "n" is for
<sabmoc> yes I would like that!
<froud> have you looked at the User Guide outline
<froud> you may have suggestions for it
<sabmoc> not yet
<sabmoc> which documents are we going to focus on for this next release?
<froud> well make your document as an article
<froud> a few
<froud> first we must restructure the repos
<froud> then we can focus on doc
<sabmoc> I noticed it seemed the quick guide was a big goal for hoary
<froud> we need to upgrade FAQ Guide to Hoary
<froud> yes, cause many people here are new to docbook
<sabmoc> like me
<froud> and we first had to build the framework
<sabmoc> well, i do have a little xp, but nothing much really
<froud> it's ok to be new, I was once a newbie to docbook 
<sabmoc> heheh
<froud> As we build the docteam people have picked it up very quickly
<sabmoc> I see why
<froud> any the repos is new
<sabmoc> people are very helpful
<froud> we try
<froud> but learning docbook if you are documenting FOSS apps is very important
<froud> both GNOME and KDE use Docbook exclusively
<froud> and many other projects like TLDP
<froud> always, if you know docbook you can contribute to documenting FOSS
<sabmoc> yes, its very handy
<froud> that said, we do have a policy to enable anyone to write hence we have wiki
<froud> some people find the barrier to docbook to high
<sabmoc> I think the wiki is an awesome documentation system
<sabmoc> but sometimes I wonder...
<froud> It has merit
<sabmoc> I dont want to compare
<froud> but is not the best format
<sabmoc> but I remember what it was like in the gentoo forums about a year or two ago, lots of people posted howto, lots lots lots.. and it was just a forum
<sabmoc> but it was easy to post
<froud> yes, and it is easy to become a mess
<sabmoc> because you just use a text editor, then cut and past it into the forum comment box
<froud> but gentoo   also have xml in the backend
<sabmoc> very easy, its not a great system, but someone who just wants to write and post its perfect
<froud> yes we gleen much knowledge from this
<froud> web-based tools are great for getting documents up quick
<sabmoc> yep
<froud> but not so great from the maintenance aspect
<froud> they also are stuck in their format
<sabmoc> the wiki really helps bring the quality up, but its a little harder to post 
<froud> whereas with xml you can just write stylesheets and transform to a fromat
<froud> yes
<froud> Ideally I would like to see a round trip
<froud> users can edit docbook in web-based app
<sabmoc> yes, the forum is not great for real documentation, because everything has to be completely rewritten
<froud> and the changes are committed to the respo
<sabmoc> that would be fantastic
<froud> but it is not that simple
<sabmoc> a wysiwyg docbook editor
<froud> well you cant bring single source and wysiwyg into the same space
<froud> they are different polarity
<sabmoc> yeah, thats whast I was just thinking too
<froud> like the ends of a broom stick
<sabmoc> yep
<froud> if you bend the stick to get it together the stick breaks
<sabmoc> it would be imposible 
<froud> You can have WYSIOO
<sabmoc> which is why nobody has done it yet, impossible
<froud> What you See is One Option
<froud> Tool like XXE and Syntex have this
<froud> But under Web-based app you need a way to define the semantics
<froud> so the wiki type of user soon gets tired of defining semantics and is distracted form actually writing
<froud> if you are interested in knowing more about how XML benefits documentation see my article http://www.sastc.org.za/articles/xml-solv-prop.html
<sabmoc> I will read it
<sabmoc> what is XXE and Syntex?
<froud> Syntex is a commmercial structured editor
<froud> XXE has a community edition but is Java
<froud> are you apporsed to java
<froud> if not see http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/
<sabmoc> I dont run java if I can help it
<sabmoc> but Im not opposed to it
<froud> what is it with people and java
<froud> java is beautiful, like Liz 
<sabmoc> wow that looks like a good article
<Liz> lol
<Liz> yes..java is good..if its running well
<sabmoc> hi Liz, I found him
<sabmoc> well.. he found me
<Liz> i see that...did you get your answer with yelp?
<sabmoc> yep
<froud> Liz: how's our favorite Linux Chick today
<Liz> a little bit hacked off froud 
<sabmoc> froud, my problem is not so much java as sun
<Liz> i just lost an hdd this morning
<sabmoc> froud, but I prefer python or c# to java
<froud> ouch
<Liz> so i wiped windows off this one and installed ubuntu on it
<Liz> i just finished doing a dist-upgrade
<Liz> not all of the packages are installed yet tho
<froud> Liz: welcome to hoary?
<sabmoc> Liz, you lost? Im sure it will turn up somewhere, have you checked the closet?
<Liz> ive been on it for a week..before the other hdd went kaput
<froud> Hmmm intesting wordddddd Kaput
<Liz> heh.. sabmoc ..i meant its died on me
<sabmoc> ah, why didnt I think of that
<sabmoc> but dont get me wrong, java is ok
<Liz> froud..its a slang word in my country
<sabmoc> it means something like "finished"
<froud> yes here too means broken
<froud> sabmoc: java rocks dude
<Liz> :)
<sabmoc> I think its the first time I've seen it on irc though
<sabmoc> froud, you like it?
<froud> what java
<sabmoc> yeah
<froud> yep yep yep
<sabmoc> cool
<froud> my whole toolchain is java
<froud> runs anywhere
<froud> just install a java runtime :-)
<sabmoc> yeah, thats the big score for java over other platforms
<froud> Saxon, Apache FOP, Xalan, Xerces, XEP
<froud> oh and lets       not forget little ol ANT
<sabmoc> heh
<sabmoc> I dont use any of them except apache2
<froud> make without the wrinkles
<froud> you should see cocoon
<froud> it rocks
<sabmoc> infact, I havent even heard of them, except for apache! haha
<sabmoc> an ol ant
<froud> That web site I sent you to is made with Apache Forrest
<sabmoc> I'll read that doc tonight
<froud> The whole site is from XML
<sabmoc> thats cool
<sabmoc> did you write the article?
<froud> yes
<sabmoc> ah cool :)
<sabmoc> so you must be Sean
<froud> at the moment the site is a static transform, I want to put it under Tomcat
<froud> yep
<sabmoc> how is it pronounced?
<froud> Like the Irish John
<froud> Though some say, Shawn
<sabmoc> but shawn is the wrong way?
<froud> there shuld be a fala in there somewhere
<froud> yes the S is a JJJJJ
<froud> Like Sean Connery, but just a whole lot younger
<sabmoc> haha
<sabmoc> Alright, I'll try to remember
* froud wishes the docteam would move to java
<sabmoc> lol
<sabmoc> no
<sabmoc> enless you mean the country
<froud> ooooooo, my feet are curling into a fist at the thoght
<sabmoc> eeeww.. fisty feet. gross
<sabmoc> haha
<froud> anyone tried to learn Tolkiens Elvish language
<froud> Hmm, it's pretty cool
<sabmoc> it sounds cool
* froud gets an idea to write docs in Elvish
<sabmoc> aaahhh
* sabmoc takes away frouds coffee.. until he stops having ideas
<froud> yeah I hav ewatch all three movies three times and still love it
* froud is born for ideas
<froud> causes me lot sof trouble sometimes
<sabmoc> :) me 2
<sabmoc> the trouble part
<sabmoc> the idea part too I guess
<froud> well day is begun. I must hack a manual for Kynaptic today
<froud> nice chatting
<froud> c ya
<sabmoc> ok man
<sabmoc> I'll get that article written
<Liz> se eya froud
<Liz> i must finish customizing my system
<Liz> theres also another liz on this server
<Liz> adn she keeps overtaking my name 
<sabmoc> you should register it
<Liz> it is
<sabmoc> then you can kick her an laugh
<Liz> but i get on here and have to ghost her off
<sabmoc> ah
<sabmoc> you would think she would get the hint then
<Liz> i must change my password just in case
<Liz> its a tad too easy 
<sabmoc> its too bad gconf didnt have an easy way to import and export its keys @ "finish customizing my system"
<sabmoc> heh, my password is "help" because I wasnt sure what I was doing and wrote /msg nickserv identify help
<Liz> lol
<sabmoc> haha
<sabmoc> meh, I doubt anyone wants to be a sabmoc
<sabmoc> ok, python time
<sabmoc> ah crap, its after midnight, better make that sleeptime
<sabmoc> cya doc folk
<Liz> nite nite
<froud> co.za is on the kde development map. fame at last http://physos.net/~physos/images/developer_map/smallmap.jpeg
<abelli> ciao a a tutti
<mdke> ola abelli
* froud grunts
<froud> ula ula ho hu ah
* froud translates from cave man to en
<mdke> hi froud
<mdke> :)
<froud> hello good dudes
<mdke> how is that gas of yours
<froud> burning
<mdke> jolly good
<froud> jolly good show old chap. I say time to call in the gaurd, what , waht
* froud is growing horns again
<abelli> dehiho
<froud> 'ello abelli 
<abelli> froud: ciao
<abelli> froud: so where's god gone?
<froud> back to the poker table to cheat on Lucifer
<abelli> whos winning ?
<abelli> playing what black jack?
<apokryphos_> froud: better in here or in devel channel?
<apokryphos_> don't wanna get in their way ;)
<froud> apokryphos: there you go http://www.inwords.co.za/kubuntu/kynaptic/kynaptic.html
<apokryphos> very cool; thanks. :)
<froud> apokryphos: svn up I did a spell check just now
<apokryphos> k
<abelli> apokryphos: dont let froud corrupt you .
<apokryphos> too late :P
* froud uses his Jedi magic, " You will come to KDE."
<mdke> hmm
<apokryphos> Keep inculcating ;)
<mdke> the dark side is more powerful
<abelli> ahh ahhh you sinner ... you're saying it .
* mdke zaps froud with his Sith powers
<froud> gimme a K
* mdke turns apokryphos to gnome
<froud> gimme a D
<apokryphos> D
<froud> gimme a E
* apokryphos cheers 
<apokryphos> ok, back to work. :D
<froud> what to you got K D E
* froud the power of the force is strong with K D E
<apokryphos> hehe
<abelli> is slow  with KDE .
<apokryphos> froud: beginner question: I keep getting https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu' is not a working copy
<abelli> or at least slower than G N O M E ...
<froud> apokryphos: I forgot kongi dude
<abelli> or better than W M Improved II
<froud> what are you doing to get that
<froud> you should be in kynaptic
<froud> kynaptic/
<froud> or did you checkout my entire kubuntu branch
<apokryphos> I get the same thing no matter what directory I'm in... nope, just the kynaptic one.
<froud> apokryphos: make sure you are in pwd kynaptic
<froud> then svn up
* froud smells hot dogs ..... fooooood. brb
<apokryphos> kynaptic dir is in my ~. When doing svn up https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu/kynaptic/ kynaptic, I get that error still.
<abelli> apokryphos: now switch rapidly to gnome
<abelli> froud wont notice it
<apokryphos> Well, I have been liking gnome lately
<apokryphos> No! Stop. Must be those brainwashing powers; marking indelibly. Ouch.
* apokryphos thinks he has KDE in his blood. Well, there is a kind of K in this vein here...
<apokryphos> froud: also, do you mind if I expand the installing Kubuntu doc later, to include, say, some of the stuff mentioned in the installingKDE wiki article?
<apokryphos> (since, not everyone wants the things brought in with k-desktop)
<froud> apokryphos: that doc is also in svn under kubuntu
<apokryphos> Right. Still can't get evil svn up to work ; going to svn co for now, but I figure I'll need the to svn up later anyhow
<froud> apokryphos: you installed subversion right
<apokryphos> Yeah, and subversion-tools
<froud> if you want all the kubuntu stuff in my branch just do svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu
<apokryphos> yeah, done.
<froud> did you checout all my kubuntu or only kynaptic
<apokryphos> previously: kynaptic; now: done all kubuntu stuff.
<froud> Ok so your working copy is in the rrot of kubuntu
<apokryphos> right
<froud> doing svn up will get updates from the repos
<apokryphos> Yeah, like cvs up, but doesn't seem to work; bah. 
<froud> apokryphos: what hav eyou done
<apokryphos> Before I was trying "svn up https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu/ kynaptic" while being in the direct kynaptic dir.
<froud> no just do svn up
<froud> leav ethe URL
<froud> once you have done the checkout you dont need to specify it again
<froud> It's stored in the .svn folder
<apokryphos> ergh, silly me. Thanks.
<froud> much easier than cvs
<apokryphos> Yeah
<froud> no need for CVSROOT etc
<froud> or -d
<apokryphos> or cvs login etc.
<apokryphos> yup
<froud> If you want a cool GUI with a User Manual by me look at eSvn
<apokryphos> Making a note; will check that out later.
<froud> http://esvn.umputun.com/
<froud> apokryphos: do remember to do svn up from time to time. I will be writing more into the document while you are editing.
<apokryphos> won't it remove my changes?
<froud> no it will only show a conflict if I touch what you are working on
<froud> otherwise it will just merge my changes into your document.
<apokryphos> ok
<froud> I will just be working on Using Filters for now
<apokryphos> I'll take care of the "Searching for Packages"
<apokryphos> in the actual doc, the whole GPL isn't going to be there at the bottom, is it?
<froud> for now it will
<froud> OK the screenshots are alreay there
* apokryphos needs to go out at six, but will work on this till then
<froud> apokryphos: no rush dude, chill
<froud> go shower and shave
<froud> dont want you date blaming me cause you stink
<apokryphos> always fresh ;)
<froud> apokryphos: what's your full name and email so I can add you as author?
<apokryphos> Well, K.F. Giannaros is probably best ;); I'm known as Francis by everyone though (middle name); K = Kontantinos. francisg@gmail.com
<froud> Cool now how do you say that ;-)
<apokryphos> It's Greek; no-one uses the full-thing, though (like Alexander/Alex); generally just "Kosta" (same pronounciation as the coffee shop)
<apokryphos> Bad thing with Kynaptic at the moment seems to be that you can't actually even see descriptions ;)
<froud> Kosta, I know Kosta
<froud> yeah kynaptic is still very basic
<apokryphos> My docbook is still on its first legs; for describing features of hte search, do you reckon I should use varlistentry with term, listitem?
<froud> Probably variablelist
<froud> Put GUI option/labels into the term and the description in the listitem
<apokryphos> ok, better get started on that next time though. Sorry for the lag ;)
<apokryphos> ttyl; will try to get onto this as soon as I get back
<froud> sure, remember to do svn up when you get back
<froud> that way you will avoid conflicts      early
<froud> anyone seen enrico
<froud> we need to get the srcs uploaded before tomorrow/Wednesday
* froud fears we lost him in a coffee shop in Amsterdam
<claude> enrico is at Amsterdam
* froud nods
<claude> he told me ha had poor internet conectivity :(
* froud nods
<froud> anyne else with whiteboard can do the upload
<froud> what do you guys think, can we tag the repos and get on with hoary or should we wait longer?
<froud> claude: we did not get any po files back from you guys
<froud> are we supposed to
<claude> froud: yes, seb128 lead the process with the ubuntu-fr list
<claude> about-ubuntu is quite ready
<froud> claude: so are we supposed to get po files or not?
<claude> i hope so...
<froud> Hmm, well mdz and thom are gonna upload soon so if they are not in they will be out until release
<claude> i can send you the file, but don't know if he's ready
<froud> Hmm anyone seen seb128 around
* froud goes off to #ubuntu-devel
<claude> if we don't include them right now, is it possible that they come into Hoary later ?
<claude> or do we have to wait until next main release ?
<froud> yes, let me see if seb128 is there
<claude> if you find him, tell him to join here
<froud> :-) just done that on #ubuntu-devel
<froud> claude: seems like seb128 is not coming
<claude> :(
<froud> well I guess it will go in later. Anyway hopefully enrico is back by then
<claude> i can send you the 2 french po files, so you can try to integrate them in the svn
<claude> sent
<froud> claude: but I dont know what to do with them
<froud> claude: I am on the seat of my pants when it comes to i18n
<claude> mmmh
<seb128> hi
<claude> haaaaaaaa !
<claude> :)
<froud> seb128: are you gonna give us po files
<seb128> yep
<froud> mdz is doing uploads
<seb128> about-ubuntu is ready
<froud> well thom actually
<froud> ok so I will check that on ein
<froud> what about release notes
<claude> seb128: i read release-notes, the file seems to be good quality
<seb128> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-fr/2005-March/003039.html
<seb128> the po file is attached to this mail
<seb128> claude: cool, I've updated the installer translations today, I'll read the note soon
<froud> seb128: please send it to sean@inwords.co.za
<seb128> can't you click on the click ?
<seb128> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-fr/attachments/20050327/278a7de8/fr.bin
<froud> Yes, but too many things
<froud> and no records
<abelli> ciao a tutti
<seb128> k
<claude> froud: these files are the same as the ones i sent you just before
<froud> claude: ok thanks
<seb128> claude: you have send them ?
<claude> yes
<froud> svn commit -m about ubuntu french about-ubuntu-fr.po --non-interactive 
<froud> Adding about-ubuntu-fr.po
<froud> Transmitting file data .
<froud> Committed revision 780.
<froud> successfully (0)
<claude> i only sent the po files, not the xml
<thom> froud: so, i'm just grabbing trunk then?
<froud> svn commit -m release notes french release-notes-fr.po --non-interactive 
<froud> Adding release-notes-fr.po
<froud> Transmitting file data .
<froud> Committed revision 781.
<froud> successfully (0)
<froud> thom: yes I think so
<seb128> froud: thanks
<froud> thom: I just got fr i18n from seb128 
<froud> seb128: no thank sto you
<froud> thom: I am not sure what enrico uploaded before
<froud> thom: it was a black box
<thom> okie
<froud> thom: it would be good to know what and how so a few few of the team members can do this in the event of somebody not being available
<froud> thom: I will speak to enrico about it when he gets out of that coffee shop in Amsterdam
<thom> heh, nod
* froud is watch mdz talking on three channels all at once.
<froud> I am convinced mdz is three people
<froud> claude: we also need to reveal how we can work better with i18n teams
<froud> claude: I am planning after haory to restructure
<claude> froud: yes, but my first concern now is to understand how the po files will be integrated in filnal desktop
<claude> *final*
<froud> claude: Hmm, yes, that is something else I have no knowledge of
<froud> claude: my areas are writing and Docbook XML framework
<froud> claude:  enrico has been hadling packaging
<froud> but we will need to automate the process
<froud> what ever it is
<Flonne> Sorry if I'm interrupting, but I've got a question.
<claude> afk, must deal with children...
<froud> Flonne: shoot
<Flonne> How exactly would one go about joining the documentation team?
<froud> you just did :-) welcome
<froud> what would you like to work on
<Flonne> I've got a lot of free time coming up, and the userguide seems to be woefully incomplete.
<froud> Yes this is a target for grumpy
<froud> we will be reoutlining and working on it soon
<Flonne> I was actually thinking I might be able to throw together a draft in time for Hoary...
<Flonne> I've been playing with it for the past two weeks.
<froud> Flonne: you have a User Guide
<Flonne> I checked it out of SVN.
<froud> You have the content
* froud takes it you understand docbook etc
<Flonne> I've got a lot of it in point form, and I'm forming paragraphs and sections based on that information now.
<Flonne> Yes, I do.
* froud is happy
<thom> froud: if you want to tag, rev 781 is gonna be ubuntu-docs 0.4
<froud> Well you can do a patch
<froud> thom: thanks
<Flonne> 4.3 is the preferred spec right now, right?
<froud> At the moment we have 4.1.2 and 4.3
<froud> The User Guide should be 4.3
<Flonne> How difficult would it be to convert 4.4 to 4.3? I began learning 4.4 before actually looking at the DTD line.
<Flonne> Everything seems to render correctly in Yelp, but docbook2html isn't exactly pretty.
<froud> Flonne: very easy if you have not used any 4.4 features and elements
<thom> (froud: sorry, i mean 0.4.1-1)
<froud> Flonne: hav eyou used any features of theat DTD
<Flonne> I don't believe so, but I'm not entirely sure.
<froud> chang ethe DocType Decl to 4.3 and then validate
<froud> you will soon find out
<Flonne> It seems to check out.
<Flonne> Maybe docbook2html just produces ugly pages.
<Flonne> I couldn't get it to handle link or xref correctly, though I haven't seen those used elsewhere in the User Guide, so I removed them.
<Flonne> But that's irrelevant.
<froud> Flonne: we use the docbook xsl and a custom layer
<froud> if you checkout all of trunk you will have all you need
<Flonne> I did. There was a lot more there than I expected.
<froud> you need to have installed the docbook xsl, dtd, xsltproc, xmllint
<froud> Our makefile will do the rest for you
* froud complete tagging svn commit -m tag r 781 ubuntu-docs 0.4 ubuntu-docs-0.4 --non-interactive 
<froud> Flonne: we have a number of nice projects to work on in grumpy
<froud> there is also an outline for the Admin Guide
<froud> and FAQ Guide will need work
<froud> thom: tagging done
<froud> thom: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/tags/ubuntu-docs-0.4
<froud> Flonne: we also have a project called LearnLinux
<froud> we would like to customize it to Ubuntu
<Flonne> I'm actually having a problem with the makefile. docbook-xsl-stylesheets 1.65.1 doesn't seem to have chunk.xsl in it.
<froud> it should give me your error please
<Flonne> compilation error: file libs/html-cust.xsl line 7 element import
<Flonne> xsl:import : unable to load /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl
<froud> you running hoary or warty
<Flonne> Ah... I specified the wrong location when installing the package.
<Flonne> I'm on a school system right now. :(
<froud> I c ok
<froud> in libs/html-cust.xsl we specify the path for xsl:import
<Flonne> Yeah. I was looking through it.
<thom> froud: ok, so the procedure is: svn export  https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-docs-0.4.1 ; tar czf ubuntu-docs_0.4.1.orig.tar.gz ubuntu-docs-0.4.1; update debian/changelog (usually with dch); debuild -S
<froud> cool, you understand xsl cust layers
<Flonne> I try to research things before working with them. :)
<thom> (you'd want to do a debuild -us -uc before the debuild -S to do test packages as well)
<Flonne> I'll just revert that file later.
<froud> thom: I tagged it in https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/tags/ubuntu-docs-0.4
<froud> so
<Flonne> Okay... Build works now.
<froud> thom: svn export https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/tags/ubuntu-docs-0.4 ubuntu-docs-0.4.1 ; tar czf ubuntu-docs_0.4.1.orig.tar.gz ubuntu-docs-0.4.1; update debian/changelog (usually with dch); debuild -S
<froud> thom: is that not right
<thom> yep
<froud> you export from the tags/
<froud> not the trunk///
<thom> now you've tagged it, yeah
<froud> Ok
<froud> Flonne: feel free to improve the CSS and XSLs
<froud> we dont use fo yet, but still have common.xsl just incase we do want to do xsl:fo
<froud> Flonne: so anything common to HTML and XSL:FO goes in the common.xsl
<froud> Flonne: at present we also dont have profiling
<froud> Flonne: but may use it in future
<Flonne> Is there any framework for that?
<froud> Flonne: not yet as we dont use it yet
<thom> Uploading via ftp ubuntu-docs_0.4.1-1.dsc: done
<thom> have a nice day, y'all
<froud> thom: yaaaaay thanks
<mdke> good work you guys
* mdke hands round cookies
<froud> Flonne: there will be lot sof restructure after hoary
<froud> Flonne: would like your help there
<froud> more ideas the better
* froud reaches for cookies
<Flonne> I'll read as much of it as I can.
<froud> I have a bunch of stuff in my branch too :-)
<Flonne> In the meantime, is there any content work to do?
<froud> feel free to hack the user guide
<Flonne> Where should I submit changes?
<froud> For now post patches
<Flonne> I'm assuming someone will want to screen this before commiting.
<froud> to the list
<Flonne> Standard diff?
<froud> Flonne: I will so work small
<froud> patch often :-)
<froud> that way I can check it better
<froud> If I dont get it others will
<froud> Flonne: are you a GNOME user or KDE
<mdke> oh don't start
<froud> If you are intersted there will also be doc work for KDE
* froud glares at mdke 
<mdke> lol
<Flonne> I prefer Gnome, but I'm running one system with Kubuntu do I can test things.
* mdke points at the cookies
<Flonne> so*
<froud> mdke: your nick is all wrong it should be mkde
<mdke> ?
<Flonne> I'm also running a system with a combination of other window managers, since I fromed an fvwm/openbox addiction a year ago.
<froud> Flonne: OK cool I have docs work to go on http://www.kubuntu.org.uk/
<froud> http://www.kubuntu.org.uk/faq.php
<froud> http://www.kubuntu.org.uk/documentation.php
<froud> Hmm an addict I see
* froud whispers to mdke, "the force is strong with this one."
<mdke> pah
<Flonne> I blame it on the time I spent writing Arch howtos...
<mdke> you cannot win
<froud> xssssss
<froud> Flonne: anyway send your patches I will be going to bed now. You should be set for now. If what's on your plate now does not satify your itch then checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud
<froud> Flonne: warning that is a large checkout
<froud> If you just want the kubuntu stuff https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu
<Flonne> I'll submit them as soon as I get home, so probably in about four hours or so.
<froud> Flonne: this branch will move in to trunk soon
<froud> I will be in bed as I am in South Africa
<froud> Where are you?
<froud> Canada
<Flonne> Western Canada.
<Flonne> UTC-7.
<froud> Hmm we have a few Mounties here
<Flonne> I also speak French, so I might be able to contribute a little to the fr side of things.
<mdke> does anyone know how the translation side of things works?
<mdke> are they using rosetta for the quickguide?
<froud> Flonne: well welcome to the doc team, and yes your French will be used
<froud> mdke: speak to claude
<Flonne> Though I'm an English/CompSci person by nature...
<mdke> froud, i tried that yesterday
<mdke> yeah hi Flonne welcome
<froud> Oh dear
<froud> well let me try
<froud> 1. we make pot file
<froud> 2. translation team creates po file from the pot
<mdke> yeah
<froud> 3. they give us back the po
<froud> 4. we make a new XML
<Flonne> Is this the same sort of pot used by XMMS?
<froud> ~~~  THE END ~~~
<mdke> froud, i c
<mdke> thanks
<mdke> froud, and do they work on the pot file using rosetta?
<froud> Flonne: XMMS is a media app
<mdke> or just individually
<froud> mdke: I understand that Rosetta now can take documents
<Flonne> I know, but it assembles a pot during compilation, and I'm pretty sure it's used for localization.
<froud> there is a mail inthe list on this
<mdke> froud, i'll have a look at their archives and the wiki pages
<claude> no Rosetta still not contains doc
<mdke> but i haven't come across a clear working method yet
<mdke> claude, ok i c
<claude> Rosetta is down now
<mdke> claude, so how do you guys work on the translations?
<froud> claude: ms word doc
<froud> :-(
<claude> Carols told us he'll try to integrate them soon
<claude> *Carlos*
<froud> mdke: but from our side all we need to know is how to generate pot files and how to remark from po to xml
<froud> Burgundavia: hello dude
<mdke> froud, i c, i was just wondering about the system for translation
<froud> Burgundavia: where have you been
<mdke> hi corey
<froud> Burgundavia: you in Canada right
<claude> froud: generating the xml from po file is not a problem
<froud> Burgundavia: meet Flonne from W Canada
<froud> no seams easy
<Flonne> Hi. :)
<froud> claude: did you add the commands and cycle to the i18n page on our wiki
* froud Burgundavia is shy tonight
<claude> froud: something like po2xml origfile.xml file.po > newfile.xml
* froud goes back in the log
<mdke> can't find much on the wiki or list about how to get involved with translating docteam documents
<Burgundavia> salut
<Burgundavia> Flonne: where are you?
<Burgundavia> no I am not shy
<claude> mdke: the process is still unmature for now
<Burgundavia> have 40+ emails to work through
<Flonne> I'm in Calgary.
<mdke> claude, i c
<Flonne> Where are you? I don't recognize gv.
<claude> mdke: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepl18n
<mdke> *clik*
<mdke> ok
<mdke> so basically step 3 is just down to individuals?
<froud> claude: yes
<froud> claude: yes
<claude> froud: yes?
<froud> claude: yes that is the command
<Burgundavia> Flonne: Victoria, BC
<claude> great
<froud> can you document the commands in the cyle
<Burgundavia> Flonne: you are Calgary, no?
<claude> froud: done
<froud> claude: I will need them for the make file
<froud> yo who changed the wiki
<Flonne> Yes, I am.
<Burgundavia> Flonne: you know Userful computers?
<claude> froud: changed what ?
<mdke> claude, i'm looking through the archive but can't find the docteam pot files posted to the list, are they there?
<Flonne> Is that the name of a store?
<froud> why does that page look so white
<mdke> froud, maybe you've changed your skin
<froud> mdke: svn up 
<froud> they are in the repos
<froud> no just that page is like that
<froud> the rest are not
<mdke> froud, sure, but step 2 in the procedure is posting the pot files to the ubuntu-translators list
<froud> mdke: which we did
<mdke> it looks like enrico did it but it has not come up on the archives
<claude> mdke: enrico sent them on march 25, but they are also in the repos
<froud> jjesse: he dude
<froud> we now also have the po files back
<froud> but we need to make them into xml
<jjesse> hello
<mdke> claude, yeah must be this one: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2005-March/000153.html
<mdke> froud, they are back already? for all languages?
<mdke> that is cool
<froud> claude: you wanna give it a bash
<froud> no just fr
<mdke> just fr?
<mdke> is it too late for other languages?
<froud> thanks to    seb128
<froud> dunno
* froud makes ready for bed
<mdke> hmm
<froud> mkde: we will iron this out by next release
<claude> froud: what do you mean by "give it a bash" ?
<froud> give it a go
<mdke> froud, i was thinking we could post the pot files to other language lists and ask for translations
<mdke> it might not be too late
<froud> mkde: I see no harm in it
<mdke> ok lemme get the pot file
<froud> mkde let us know how it happens
<mdke> are the pot files easy to find?
* froud wonder if mdke notices the nick change
<froud> mkde: yes in aboutubuntu/ and releasenotes/
<mdke> which nick change?
<mdke> froud, kthx
<mdke> oh shit
* mdke slaps froud 
<mdke> damn subliminal mind games
<froud> mKDE has not noticed
<mdke> sorry frgnome
<mdke> brb
<mdke> night if i miss ya
<froud> well chaps all we miss tonigh is enrico and Liz
<froud> but I am off to bed. Happy hacking. Fo rthose late commers we branched ubuntu-doc 0.4 today
<froud> Umm we tagged ubuntu-doc 0.4 today
* froud cant wait for the final release so we can get on with restructuring
<claude> i'm also going to bed (not the same as froud... lol !)
<froud> good night
<claude> bye
<jjesse> looks like i joined just as everyone is leaving :)
<jjesse> or maybe they are leaving because i joined
<Burgundavia> mdke and maskie left from a netsplit
<graymalkin> hello
<graymalkin> I wrote a wiki but I think I kind of screwed it up
<graymalkin> anyone want to look at it and tweak it?
<Burgundavia> sure
<graymalkin> well, here is the page I did ... https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HowToEnableSCSIEmulationWithHoaryKernel26  ... but I did it from the sandbox, and I think instead of making a new page, it just renamed the sandbox. it should be in the "how to" section but I don't really know how to parent it or anything.
<Burgundavia> graymalkin: hmm
<Burgundavia> I am not an expert on the wiki
<Burgundavia> so I will leave alone to
<graymalkin> The problem is if you go to "help on editing" at https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HelpOnEditing , it now says click on the "enable scsi with 2.6" page instead of the sandbox page ...
<graymalkin> I hope someone around here can fix it
<graymalkin> do you know who else can fix it or should I email someone?
<Burgundavia> oh
<graymalkin> I think I fixed it
<graymalkin> w00t! it's set up as a new page now ... I hope someone will correctly put it in the "how-to" category ....
<jjesse> hey nice page graymalkin
#ubuntu-doc 2005-04-09
<jsgotangco> greetings
<Liz-away> hello
<jsgotangco> hi Liz
<Liz> how are you?
<jsgotangco> oh im just resting i had a flu for 3 days
<Liz> ugh...i havent caught any colds ..yet
* Liz is keeping fingers crossed
<Liz> you all better now?
* jsgotangco is doing fine now and ready to get back to work tommorow
<jsgotangco> while i was sick i was trying to translate some wikis to tagalog hehe
<Liz> ive fallen behind a little with the documentation..i had to reinstall hoary at one point..then 2 days ago i lost a hard drive when it went kaput on me
<jsgotangco> what have you been doing?
<Liz> yesterday i wiped my other hdd and reinstall ubuntu back on it
<Liz> took the whole day to get it upgraded to hoary and customised etc
<Liz> i spent alot of yesterday studying tho
<jsgotangco> hmmm i just remembered i have to update my hoary later
<jsgotangco> i gotta start fixing for my visa too
<froud> African Greetings
<jsgotangco> greetings froud
<froud> How's everyone this morning
<Liz> kia ora froud 
<jsgotangco> im feeling much better after a flu
<Liz> im feeling good too
<Liz> tho i didnt have the flu
<froud> so jsgotangco has gotten ove rthe flu and Liz has gotten ove rthe loss of her hard drive
<Liz> hehe..still mourning its loss
<Liz> 60gigs..down the drain
<Liz> sgih
<Liz> sigh
<jsgotangco> which reminds me to backup up my laptop later
<froud> well guys we tagged ubuntu-doc 0.4 yesteray
<jsgotangco> does it also cover kubuntu doc?
<Liz> yay
<Liz> congratulations froud
<Liz> i know everyones worked hard to get it done
<Liz> i must svn all those things again too
<jsgotangco> same here
<froud> anyone  seen user docs for poxml
<Liz> whats poxml?
<froud> xml2po
<froud> covert xml to pot and po to xml
<froud> for translations
<Liz> ahh..
<Liz> hadnt seen it
<jsgotangco> you know i get some emails here asking for help on translating and dont know where to start i point them to the wiki but still dont know what to do next
<froud> jsgotangco: we are all learning
<jsgotangco> bbl i gotta go to the doctor later
<Liz> ad ive already been to the docs..heh
<Liz> bb2moro
<abelli> buon giorno
<jjesse> who
<jjesse> doh wrong window
<jjesse> welcome mdke
<mdke> thanks jjesse 
* froud-work waves at mkde
<froud> enrico: you're back
<enrico> froud: hello
<froud> how was amsterdam
<enrico> So, what happened?  I've seen french stuff coming in... is it already integrated in the build system?
<enrico> Amsterdam is pretty ok, but I had a very useless day today
<froud> no need you for that
<jjesse> there were some messages in the mailing list on french stuff if i recall correctly?
<froud> we still need to create -fr.xml from the po
<froud> the po files for about and release notes are in
<froud> we need to make them back to xml
<froud> so aboutubuntu-fr.xml from aboutubuntu-fr.po
<jjesse> wow a lot of changes when i did a svn up
<froud> I just have not had the time to do it
<froud> enrico: we are tagged at 0.4 in tags/
<froud> 0.4 is uploaded by Thom
<froud> jjesse: yes Flonne has given me some great patch today
<froud> jjesse: he is working on User Guide
* froud drops an explanation of using xml2pot into the room http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2004-September/msg00106.html
<enrico> oh, cool
<enrico> So, how do we work towards integrating the translations in the Debian package?
<enrico> I mean, in the .deb?
<froud> enrico: if you dont know then how are we expected to know
* froud yells for devels
<enrico> froud: ah, ok, now I get what you asked me before
<enrico> Is there something done for turning .po back into xml?
<froud> enrico: nothing yet
<enrico> I'll be in A'dam for two weeks, with very little time
<froud> see link above
<enrico> And that very little time needs to be allocated to my full-time job
<froud> I will make some time soon for this
<froud> understand
<froud> enrico: I must also learn the upload procedure
<enrico> I'll try to update the .deb build system, but I'd like someone to work out creating the translated stuff
<froud> incase you are not here
<froud> excuse the dump
<froud> Your first usage of xml2po would probably amount to something like:
<froud>   xml2po C/planner-manual.xml > planner-manual.pot
<froud>   cp planner-manual.pot es.po
<froud> Now, edit es.po, and add Spanish translations.  Finally, you merge
<froud> your translations back:
<froud>   xml2po -p es.po -o es/planner-manual.xml C/planner-manual.xml
<froud> Next time C/planner-manual.xml changes, you'd sync (gettextism is
<froud> "merge") your es.po first:
<froud>   xml2po -u es.po C/planner-manual.xml
<froud> Now, you update translations in es.po, and merge them back in the
<froud> same way as before (of course, don't forget to check es.po with
<froud> "msgfmt -cv -o /dev/null es.po" or you may get errors):
<froud>   xml2po -p es.po -o es/planner-manual.xml C/planner-manual.xml
<froud> enrico: I just need time to create the scripts
<froud> although there are scripts in gnome utils
<froud> they do not work as is in our system
<jjesse> wow that website w/ the instructions to convert xml to po and back again is great
<froud> jjesse: perhaps you have some time to architect a solution for us
<froud> ;-)
<jjesse> froud i can try and see what i can do
<froud> Great
<jjesse> <- is supposed to be busy working
<froud> jjesse:  what ever you do document it here http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepl18n
<froud> enrico: need to garden that file to a suitable place
<jjesse> so who does the conversion from the pot files to xml?  is always the same person?
<froud> any one of us can do it
<froud> jjesse: once we freeze the strings
<froud> somebody does a pot file
<froud> the translate guys take them and make po
<froud> they give us back po
<froud> we make xml from thier po files
<jjesse> ah i c
<froud> basic file name convention is <filename>-<lang>.po
<froud> to <filename>-<lang>.xml
<froud> the en files are just <filename>.xml and <filename>.pot
<froud> At present the i18n files reside in the same folder as the en files
<froud> after hoary the i18n files fill each go to thier own folder
<froud> according to the GNOME i18n folder naming convention
<froud> take a look at gnome-utils
<froud> take a look at gnome-doc-utils
<froud> we can crib it from there
<froud> the i18n guys will take the pot and put it in Rosetta
* froud is now tired
<jjesse> reading and trying to understan
<mdke> so the docs are def. going into rosetta?
<froud> mkde: well I dont really care so long as we get a po back :-)
<froud> for me i18n should be a black box
<froud> we put it in and it comes out with a new flag
<mdke> froud, seriously now
<mdke> get my name right
<froud> mkde: not intil you move to Kubuntu
<mdke> or you're gonna get beatz
<mdke> ;)
<froud> :-)
* mdke adds mkde to highlights
<froud> mdke: I dont mind how they do the actual translation
<froud> so long as we can give them what they want
<mdke> yeah
<froud> and get back waht we want, without to much work on either side
<mdke> but it would be nice if rosetta was workin
<froud> that is why it is important to do ther merge and sync stuff
<mdke> i might join their list
<froud> mdke: you like translations hey?
<mdke> i think they should work more closely with the locoteams
<mdke> yeah
<froud> well we can always put you in charge of that department
<mdke> is there such a department?
<froud> I have enough on my hands with writing and XML framework
<mdke> its the translation teams department really
<froud> yes but having an interface to follow through on things is good for distributing the load on the writers
<froud> we have lots of ground to cover after hoary and putting people in place with roles could resolve confusion
<mdke> ok well listen if I can help out, just tell me what to do
<froud> well you can chase for translations
<mdke> ok sure
<froud> and when we freeze docs you can pickup the ball and let people know we are ready
<mdke> there have been two responses from the locoteam email i sent yesterday
<jjesse> reall quick for kubuntu all i need to install is kubuntu-desktop right?
<mdke> and the italian team has also responded
* enrico can't cope with the IRC volume today
<mdke> lol
<froud> jjesse:  http://www.kubuntu.org.uk/documentation.php
<mdke> awww
* mdke says hi to enrico
<froud> we chased him off
<froud> he must be tired from his trip
<froud> jjesse: let me know how you find that document to be
* froud also going off to do work'
<mdke> k
<mdke> cya froud 
<jjesse> wow that was the most conersation in this channel that i have seen in a long long time :)
<mdke> lol
<apokryphos> hey froud :)
<froud> apokryphos: hey
* froud looks for a patch
<apokryphos> Will be done in a few :P. What tag should I use for describing a checkbox-description?
<apokryphos> i.e. in the Find, "Dynamic Results".
<froud> the check box is a guibutton but if your want just the tag use label
<froud> guilabel
<apokryphos> ok
<froud> apokryphos:  I normally just say the <guibutton>Dynamic Results</guibutton> checkbox
<apokryphos> I'll svn up; only really done Find and Commiting Changes part, but I've got time now so I'll do others
<froud> Ok sure, dont worry if some stuff does not work. I found a few place were the app is not implimented yet
* froud goes back to work
<apokryphos> http://youmortals.com/stuff/ubuntu/kynaptic.xml.diff
* froud does wget
<apokryphos> some are very minor things ;)
<froud> apokryphos: great thanks I just touch a few peices in your patch will will commit in a momement
<apokryphos> cool
<apokryphos> froud: If there's any recurring docbok errors, please do let me know, so I don't make 'em again. :P
<froud> apokryphos: theres a heap
<apokryphos> :/
<froud> do you know how to validate
<apokryphos> Hmm, can I use checkXML for that file?
<froud> apokryphos: see http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/XsltprocAndXmllint
<froud> I will fix them
<froud> and dont worry about it if you make mistakes
<froud> just try to make less
<froud> :-)
<froud> but hey, thanks for the patch man
<froud> apokryphos: you will be able to see the problems if you do a diff agianst HEAD when I have done the commit
<apokryphos> Yeah, eek, sorry. Need to do more practice. Will use that tool referenced. ;-)
<froud> cool
<froud> but really it is ok
<froud> it is not ok if you are a commotter though ;-)
* apokryphos is happy he isn't one then
<jjesse> wow kubuntu-desktop is  a huge update :)
<apokryphos> Yeah, I believe they're building release candidate candidates now ;)
<froud> apokryphos:
<froud> svn commit -m commit a patch compliments of "apokryphos" kynaptic.xml --non-interactive 
<froud> Sending kynaptic.xml
<froud> Transmitting file data .
<froud> Committed revision 787.
<froud> successfully (0)
<froud> wil will be doing an indent of the file now. So if you need to diff do it on r787
<apokryphos> cool. Will a plain svn up update me now?
<apokryphos>  So if you need to diff do it on r787 -- not sure if I understand completely. :P
<froud> apokryphos: no only if you wanted to see the changes I made
<froud> you can just do svn revert kynaptic.xml
<apokryphos> right
* apokryphos is warming to svn
<froud> that will make the HEAD in your working copy
<froud> apokryphos: it's easier than tla or cvs
<froud> altough Baz is looking good
<froud> apokryphos: a new HTML is in http://www.inwords.co.za/kubuntu/kynaptic/kynaptic.html
<apokryphos> froud: excellent; thanks. :)
<jjesse> ooo new kde looks great
<jjesse> just need to configure my desktop and stuff
<froud> jjesse: welcome to KDE
<froud> jjesse: this will make mdke mad ;_0
* mdke comes back from /away
<froud> jjesse: was that document of any help
<apokryphos> A new recruit: excellent.
* mdke slaps jjesse and goes back /away
<froud> apokryphos: soon the whole docteam will be on Kubuntu
* mdke holds the gnome flag up
<froud> five toes and a foot
<jjesse> that doc was great still reading through it though to make sure there is nothing i would like to suggest
* froud tells Kongi, "Blow flames on those toes."
<mdke> hmm
* froud watches mdke hop around on one foot
<mdke> i will try kde
<mdke> is 3.4 out officially?
<apokryphos> Yup
<apokryphos> since a few weeks ago now..
* froud says, "You will try KDE."
<mdke> its not in gentoo yet
<mdke> when it is I will try it
<apokryphos> It's available to emerge, I'm pretty sure...
<mdke> not in stable
<mdke> *  kde-base/kdebase
<mdke>       Latest version available: 3.3.2-r1
<mdke> i am patient anyhow :)
<apokryphos> ah, ok. Sure.
<apokryphos> hey wait a minute, isn't this *ubuntu*-doc :D
<mdke> lol
<apokryphos> Heretic!
<mdke> i have ubuntu on my lappy
* apokryphos gets the rope and the fire
<mdke> i'm leaving for a while now
<froud> guys must love ya and leave ya for now. When I come back I expect everyone to be running Kubuntu ;-)
<froud> apokryphos: thanks for the patch
<apokryphos> froud-away: for when you get back: what should be put in the Managing Packages section?
<claude> does someone know if it's still time to work on translations of hoary release-notes ?
<claude> i've got a diff on french translation...
<Burgundavia> claude: I have not been involved, but we haven't released yet
<claude> so i can send the diff to the list, right ?
<Burgundavia> I would do so
<claude> k
#ubuntu-doc 2005-04-10
<Flonne> Are you available to review the howto before I add it to the Wiki, Burgundavia?
<Burgundavia> just throw it up there
<Burgundavia> I can review on the wiki
<Flonne> All right. I'll strip out the DocBook stuff and link to it ASAP.
<Burgundavia> docbook is nice
<Burgundavia> send that to the list also
<Flonne> That's what I planned to do. :)
<Flonne> I just wanted to get any bugs worked out before that.
<mdke> hi dudes
<Flonne> Hi.
<Burgundavia> salut
<mdke> yo
<mdke> how are things?
<jsgotangco> hello
<jsgotangco> hello
<mdke> hi jsgotangco avanspronsen 
<avanspronsen> hello
<avanspronsen> how is everyone?
<mdke> gd thanks you?
<jsgotangco> im back to work after a week of flu
<jsgotangco> :)
<mdke> :)
<avanspronsen> good...this is my first visit to this channel.  I am  bit of a linux newb but love linux and Ubuntu.
<mdke> welcome avanspronsen 
<avanspronsen> I am just trying to find out how I can help.
<mdke> you're not as much of a n00b as i am
* mdke has seen your wiki page
<avanspronsen> hmmm, really?
<mdke> yep
<jsgotangco> welcome :) we are all learning
<avanspronsen> why?  :-)
<mdke> i don't know programming
<mdke> or system admin
<avanspronsen> me niether, but I am s sysadmin, most windows, but I run hoary on my laptop and warty on a couple of servers
<mdke> :)
<mdke> welcome to the team
<avanspronsen> I can my hands on older hardware so I could help test installs, doc installs, etc
<jsgotangco> mdke: do you happen to know where the moin 1.3 stuff are located in the wiki if its already there?
<mdke> no idea
<mdke> lets see
<mdke> don't think its there
<jsgotangco> i do sysadmin stuff too
<mdke> brb restarting X
<avanspronsen> linux sysadmin?
<jsgotangco> well thats one, but i do handle windows and solaris at work as well
<jsgotangco> need to be jack of all trades hehe
<avanspronsen> we are windows but I have one linux server, running warty, that I am doing some proof of concept work on
<jsgotangco> our intranet runs on warty now
<jsgotangco> with plone and moin
<avanspronsen> cool, how big is the company?
<jsgotangco> not so big, 400+ people in a manufacturing facility
<avanspronsen> cool
<mdke> not bad!
<jsgotangco> yeah not bad really
<avanspronsen> smaller can be good, much more nimble
<avanspronsen> less politics
<avanspronsen> how many servers do you look after?
<jsgotangco> 6 servers half of which is linux
<jsgotangco> one of the linux servers run oracle on rhel
<avanspronsen> nice
<jsgotangco> we do have plans to move the 2 win2003 servers to linux when it becomes EOL though
<avanspronsen> do you do doc work for Ubuntu?
<jsgotangco> but that would be a long long time
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> i do wiki stuff at the moment because im still getting my feet wet on docbook
<avanspronsen> how do you get started?
<mdke> there are some docteam pages on the wiki
<mdke> some of em are quite helpful
<jsgotangco> yes
<mdke> right i'm off to bed
<mdke> g'night all
<jsgotangco> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepRepository
<jsgotangco> try this one
<avanspronsen> I took a quivk look, I will go back and have a closerlook
<avanspronsen> ok
<avanspronsen> night mdke
<jsgotangco> night mdke
<avanspronsen> :-)
<Flonne> Burgundavia, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows (Please let me know about any changes so I can apply them to the .xml before submitting it.)
<Burgundavia> I would drop the stuff about grub
<Burgundavia> s/grub/lilo
<Burgundavia> who cares
<Burgundavia> does it work?
<Flonne> Well, I still have to check the LiveCD, which I'm doing now...
<Burgundavia> I would seperate out the howto and the explanation
<Burgundavia> list what you need to do
<Burgundavia> then have an explanation at the bottom
<Burgundavia> so the how to becomes
<Burgundavia> 1. do a
<Burgundavia> 2. go to 1
<Burgundavia> etc.
<Burgundavia> and then it says
<Burgundavia> explanation
<Burgundavia> you do a become b is borked
<Burgundavia> s/become/because
<Burgundavia> but otherwise excellent work
<Flonne> I'm not entirely sure how that stuff can be separated.
<Flonne> It's quite conditional, and not everyone has the same partition structure.
<Burgundavia> true
<Burgundavia> another thought might be to make it more conditional
<Burgundavia> ie, if you overwrite your mbr with windows, you only need to reinstall grub
<Burgundavia> you don't need to tweak your menu.lst
<Burgundavia> thus maybe say
<Burgundavia> if this happens
<Burgundavia> do 1, 2 and 3
<Burgundavia> if this happens
<Burgundavia> do 1 and 2
<Flonne> That makes sense.
<Burgundavia> ideally a howto should not dive into anything that doesn't help the person right now
<jsgotangco> that's a simple way to explain a howto
<jsgotangco> i like that
<Burgundavia> we can probably safely assume that 95% of people are simply going to overwriting their grub in the mbr
<Flonne> I'm used to focusing on unusual circumstances, since those cases tend to be the ones that drive users to mailing lists.
<Flonne> I'mm try to emphasize the simple stuff, though.
<Burgundavia> I wouldn
<Burgundavia> t focus on the unusal actually
<Burgundavia> I would focus on the 95% cases
<Burgundavia> those are the ones that we really can rights docs for
<Burgundavia> the rest we can deal with in person
<jsgotangco> ive read through it though and I think it applies to general users
<jsgotangco> well not to general in a sense about ability
<jsgotangco> hi Skywind
<Flonne> There. Tested with the Ubuntu LiveCD, the Knoppix LiveCD, the Gentoo LiveCD, the Arch LiveCD, and System Rescue CD, with RAID, and both NT5 and 9x.
<Flonne> It's also simpler, more to the point, and reads a little better.
<Burgundavia> Flonne: nice work
<Flonne> Now to study...
<Flonne> Eek. The Kubuntu 3.4 package doesn't have a pretty Kubuntu wallpaper by default.
<Flonne> Its wallpaper is pretty, but it isn't Kubuntu pretty.
<Flonne> It also seems to have forgotten my transparency settings, though it retained details like font anti-aliasing.
<Burgundavia> Flonne: there is a kde-artwork package or something for that
<jsgotangco> i will probably try downloading the kubuntu-base stuff soon
<jsgotangco> greetings froud
<froud> jsgotangco: hi
* froud sends African Greetings to the room
<jsgotangco> froud: u got a minute?
<froud> yup
<jsgotangco> how does one start a translation project with a po file? where do i find it?
<froud> translation of what?
<jsgotangco> let's say quickguide.xml for starters
<froud> The en pot file is in svn
<froud> then follow http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2004-September/msg00106.html
<froud> basically you generate a po from the pot
<froud> you can do cp enfile.pot > langfile.po
<froud> in the case of quick guide cp quickguide.xml > quickguide-<lang>.po
<froud> ooops
<froud> in the case of quick guide cp quickguide.pot > quickguide-<lang>.po
<froud> the you translate
<froud> msgid "Welcome to Ubuntu Linux &distro-rev;: The &distro-version; Release."
<froud> msgstr ""
<froud> your lang text goes in msgstr ""
<froud> example
<froud> msgid "Welcome to Ubuntu Linux &distro-rev;: The &distro-version; Release."
<froud> msgstr "Bienvenue sur la version &distro-rev; d'Ubuntu Linux : &distro-version;."
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<froud> when finished send us the lang po file
<jsgotangco> from what i understand
<jsgotangco> i generate the po file from the xml file
<froud> no you already have the pot file from us
<froud> we made a pot file for quick guide
<jsgotangco> i just have to get it from svn?
<froud> do you have a working copy of svn
<jsgotangco> i have ubuntu-docs at the moment
<froud> you should do a checkout on our trunk
<froud> no no dont do it there
<froud> do it in repos
<froud> do you have subversion installed
<jsgotangco> i do
<froud> ok so now cd to the directory you want to make your working copy in
<froud> then
<froud> svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-docs
<froud> that will create the folder called ubuntu-docs/ and add the files in trunk/ to it
<froud> this is called your working copy
<froud> work there
<jsgotangco> should this be separate from the existing ubuntu-docs?
<froud> the repos is the source of ubuntu-doc pacjages
<froud> we build ubuntu-doc from the repos
<froud> once you have the repos you can build ubuntu-docs
<froud> anytime you like
<froud> and install the packages
<froud> this is how we test our packages
<froud> at intervals like yesterday, we upload to the seed
<froud> so once you have the repos trunk/
<froud> just cd quickguide/
<froud> then cp quickguide.pot > quickguide-<lang>.po
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> i did this before
<froud> but before you go doing work check that none of the translation groups are not already busy doing a translation for the target language you want to work on
<jsgotangco> let me just refresh my trunk
<froud> do svn up
<froud> in trunk
<froud> before starting work, always do svn up from your working copy trunk
<froud> many people work on the repos
<froud> it is the hub for al lof us
<froud> each has a working copy
<froud> each hacks their copy
<jsgotangco> is the trunk the same as that in http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepRepository
<froud> and either commits or makes patches and submits them
<froud> That is an intruction on how to get started
<froud> yes
<jsgotangco> then i have this already
<froud> this is what I just explained to you
<jsgotangco> ill just svn up
<froud> ok so then cd to the trunk/
<froud> i.e. make trunk your pwd
<froud> then svn up
<jsgotangco> it says At revision 788
<froud> Ok now ls quickguide/
<jsgotangco>  oh there's the pot now
<froud> ls quickguide/
<froud> quickguide.pot  quickguide.xml  VERSION
<jsgotangco> yes
<froud> cd quickguide
<froud> cp quickguide.pot > quickguide-<lang>.po
<froud> what lang are you going to do?
<jsgotangco> oh i was thinking of doing filipino
<jsgotangco> its not a complicated language
<froud> Hmm what's the abbrev for that
<jsgotangco> i think its tl
<jsgotangco> (tagalog)
<froud> I guess I am not sure
<jsgotangco> i will just check anyway
<froud> cp quickguide.pot > quickguide-tl.po
<froud> when you have finished translating
<froud> you make a patch
<froud> do you know how
<jsgotangco> no
<jsgotangco> how come my po fileis empty?
<froud> cp quickguide.pot quickguide-tl.po
<froud> dont put the >
<froud> I was trying to say copy file1 to file2
<jsgotangco> i got it right this time
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> ok
<froud> edit your file
<froud> then before you make the patch do svn up
<jsgotangco> i start editing on msgstr"" right
<froud> then svn status
<froud> yes
<jsgotangco> o i start first on one line
<froud> yes work in a logical manner
<froud> when you are done just mail the file to the list
<froud> we will commit it
<froud> then you can do another svn up
<jsgotangco> what happened to the patching and stuff
<froud> let's not complicate it for you now
<jsgotangco> hehe ok i will try this first
<froud> it's enough to handle what you have got
<froud> btw, thanks for the help
* froud must go for a minute brb
<jsgotangco> thank you for teaching me as well
<jsgotangco> i'll check this out first
<froud> pleasure
<jsgotangco> just one question
<jsgotangco> lets say i get to finish this i just send this do ubuntu-doc-commit?
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> send to ubuntu-doc
<froud-work> no to ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com
<froud-work> Burgundavia: snap :-)
<Burgundavia> doc-commit is driven out of the svn commits
<jsgotangco> ok i;m subscribed to that
<jsgotangco> ok im sold on this pot thing its so easy at the moment
<jsgotangco> bbl reboot x
<jsgotangco> bbl
<mdke> hi all
* froud-work nods
<mdke> hows it going?
* froud-work hard
<mdke> :(
<mdke> the current system is for translated po files to be posted to the list right?
<froud-work> yep
* froud-work must go to shop buy bread and milk
<mdke> ok:)
<froud-work> back
<HostingGeek> mdke: lauchpad..
<HostingGeek> malone persificly
<froud-work> HostingGeek: excuse my ignorance what is launchpad
<mdke> HostingGeek, thanks yeah i filed it
<mdke> froud-work, launchpad.ubuntu.com
<froud-work> Huh another site
<mdke> that's where rosetta is
<froud-work> Ah ha
<trickie> mdke, is there a way to get a closer look at rosetta?
<mdke> you were saying on the list that you couldn't figure out how to get an account with rosetta?
<trickie> mdke, yeah that was me
<mdke> did you mean just a normal user account?
<mdke> hi trickie 
<trickie> froud-work, i just added a 'make trans' that will convert .po files back to xml
<trickie> mdke, yeah
<mdke> trickie, just log in
<mdke> its all part of ubuntu
<froud-work> trickie: hello thanks will take alook
<trickie> i went to make an account and i get an error when i click link in an email
<mdke> trickie, you have an account
<trickie> ah
<trickie> me = stupid
<trickie> :)
<mdke> lol
<mdke> trickie, btw is there a deadline for sending back translations?
<trickie> mdke, i don't know
<mdke> well that means no doesn't it?
<mdke> lol
<trickie> mdke, i can never really get a an answer if iask exactly when it has to be done by'
<mdke> fair enough
<froud-work> trickie: nice one mate :-)
<froud-work> trickie: but how to manage diffs
<froud-work> say I edit quick guide and I update the po files
<mdke> omg
<mdke> don't tell me you are changing the docs still
<froud-work> mdke: no, but what happens next release?
<mdke> oh phew
<trickie> froud-work, yeah i have been trying to think of a way around that
<froud-work> the i18n team should not have to retranslate stuff that remaine dthe same
<mdke> good thinking
<froud-work> trickie: did you look at http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2004-September/msg00106.html
<froud-work> the prcess is explained
<froud-work> I think we should standardize on xml2pot / xml2po
<trickie> froud-work, can you merge the .po files with msgmerge ??
* froud-work just needs to find libxml2-python rpm for SuSE
<froud-work> yes
<froud-work> basic gettext
<froud-work> but xml2po takes consideration of the XML
<froud-work> essentially it can handle the entire process
<froud-work> right?
<trickie> froud-work, yep ok
<trickie> i'll fix it up soon
<froud-work> your script is good though
<trickie> froud-work, he he thanks
<trickie> been trying to blow my mind with some perl lately
<froud-work> perhaps can invoke xml2po with $ from your script
<trickie> yep
<froud-work> I wish there was a pure xsl solution for this
<trickie> i gotta shoot... i will make the changes soon
<froud-work> ok
<mdke> bye
* froud-work goes back to work
<trickie> mdke, see ya
<froud> hoary's release date has been moved from 6th to 8th 
<froud> April
<mdke> anyone home?
<sabmoc> do <section> blocks need to be nested eg<section><section><section></section></section></section> ? or can I just go like this <></><></><></> 
<sabmoc> or are both acceptable
<froud> sabmoc: sections are nested
<froud> sabmoc: here is an example
<froud> <article>
<froud>     <title>Article Title</title>
<froud>     <section>
<froud>         <title>Section1 Title</title>
<froud>         <para>Text</para>
<froud>         <section>
<froud>             <title>Section 1.1 Title</title>
<froud>             <para>Text</para>
<froud>         </section>
<froud>         <section>
<froud>             <title>Section 1.2 Title</title>
<froud>             <para>Text</para>
<froud>         </section>
<froud>     </section>
<froud>     <section>
<froud>         <title>Section2 Title</title>
<froud>         <para>Text</para>
<froud>         <section>
<froud>             <title>Section 2.1 Title</title>
<froud>             <para>Text</para>
<froud>         </section>
<froud>         <section>
<froud>             <title>Section 2.2 Title</title>
<froud>             <para>Text</para>
<froud>         </section>
<froud>     </section>
<froud> </article>
<dand> hello. what's the proper place for asking about website translation?
<froud> dand: I have no idea
* froud wonders why claude disappeared so fast
<mdke> lol
<mdke> dand, what sot of translation?
<Flonne> Oops. I forgot to change my outgoing mail settings to use my real name. That's been fixed now. (In case anyone happens to wonder who Red HamsterX is)
<froud> :-)
<mdke> heh
<mdke> oh yeah
<mdke> froud, am downloading the Kubuntu RC live disk
<mdke> lets see what all the fuss is about
<froud> mdke: cool
<jjesse> i am really enjoying kubuntu
<jjesse> now if i could just figure out power managerment for my laptop -- supsend to disk and all that
<jjesse> then i would be all set
<jjesse> i couldn't figure it out in ubuntu itself :(
<froud> jjesse: on kde it is easier, just use KControl
<jjesse> hmm why can't it work that easy on ubuntu?
<jjesse> that was a cake walke
<mdke> froud, what is language support like on kubuntu?
<froud> jjesse: welcome to kde dude :-)
<froud> good
<froud> what langiage do you want
<mdke> italian
<froud> Good
<mdke> guy in the italian chan says its not all in italian
<froud> Again in the control panel
<froud> It's good, there are patches but thats the same for most
<mdke> ok cool
<mdke> thanks
<froud> But in general kde just makes life easy
<Flonne> It does, but it doesn't run too well on my 486. :(
<froud> He he it needs more resources
* froud uses 486s for door-stops
* Flonne uses it for managing distributed tasks and as a simple router.
<froud> no desktop required then
<mdke> thats one hell of a door stop
<froud> keeps the door open though
<mdke> very true
<mdke> i have a p1 that i need to figure out what to do with
<mdke> maybe webserver
<claude> hum, hum, guys, may i bother you :-P
<claude> mdke: did you already get some po back ?
* froud nods
<mdke> claude, no
<mdke> i've done one italian po
<mdke> but nothing from anyone else
<claude> ok
<mdke> are they in rosetta yet?
<claude> no
<mdke> ok np
<mdke> are they likely to be? if not i'll set off on the quickguide-it soon
<claude> they should...
<claude> carlos said between today and tomorrow
<mdke> oh cool
* froud wonders if anybody has access to trados (translation memory)
<claude> but time is short for inclusion in Hoary
<mdke> i need to subscribe to the translation list
<claude> i am...
<claude> but you won't receive many traffic...
<mdke> claude, yeah i agree. the two main docs aren't long tbh
<mdke> they shouldn't take long to translate
<mdke> hopefully we'll get some back soon
<mdke> one question
<claude> there isn't any translators community for now
<mdke> claude, this is the first translating i've done so am pretty n00b, i noticed that in the french po the accents come out funny on my poEdit
<mdke> do you know why this is?
<claude> just some guys asking how they can help
<claude> are you in UTF-8 ?
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> my accents came out ok
<mdke> maybe poEdit has a problem
<mdke> but it got me a bit worried
<mdke> shall i get a screenshot of the behaviour?
<claude> i'm not using poEdit
<mdke> what do you use?
<claude> gTranslator or kBabel (just to make froud hapy :) )
<mdke> gtranslator wouldn't open the files for me
<froud> KBabel rocks
<claude> i had also problem with gtranslator
<mdke> heres the screenshot
<claude> i'm installing poedit
<mdke> http://mdke.mine.nu/images/po.png
<mdke> top window is french, bottom italian
<mdke> the french version says charset iso-8859-1
<mdke> just noticed
<mdke> which charset should it be in?
<claude> utf-8
<mdke> well its definitely not
<mdke> just got the new version from snv
<mdke> svn
<claude> dont' know why poedit find this 8859-1...
<mdke> unless poEdit has some crazy problem
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> it is utf8?
<claude> "Content-Type: application/x-xml2pot; charset=UTF-8\n"
<claude> line 13 of po file
<mdke> i know
<mdke> its the capital letters
<mdke> maybe
<claude> no
<mdke> mine says "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8\n"
<mdke> different content type
<mdke> :/
<mdke> oh dear, have i done something wrong?
<mdke> claude, comparing the documents I also see that the french version includes things like: #. Tag: subtitle and ~.Tag: para. My one doesn't have these.
<claude> don't know if this matter
<mdke> hope not
<claude> i'm no more experienced user than you, you know ! 
<mdke> heh
<mdke> this is my first attempt at translating
<mdke> i had never heard of .po files before
<claude> i did, but juste a little, little little :)
<mdke> :)
<mdke> well let's hope it works
<mdke> does anyone know anything about it?
<claude> could you send your po file to the list, to be included in svn ?
<mdke> i will do so tomorrow
<claude> we'll try to regenerate the italian xml 
<mdke> i am waiting on corrections from someone else
<claude> k
<mdke> will try and hurry it
<claude> make an 'po2xml original.xml yourfile.po > original-it.xml'
<claude> and see the result in yelp
<mdke> what package do i need to install?
<claude> poxml (http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepl18n)
<mdke> ok
<claude> froud: do you know when the defintive ubuntu-docs freeze for Hoary will be ?
<froud> We have frozen about-ubuntu, release-notes and quick guide
<froud> only crital issues can get in now
<froud> other docs are open for work
<claude> i18n IS critical :)
<froud> yes
<froud> the en docs are frozen
<froud> to enable l18n
<froud> we hope to get as many po files in as possible
<claude> until ... ?
<froud> Hoary release is now 8th April
<froud> as apposed to 6th
<mdke> is that for our benefit?
<froud> I would say aiming at 6th is a good date
* mdke hopes not
<froud> no
<claude> however the scripts seems not ready
<froud> claude: which scripts
<froud> those from trickie
<claude> Makefile, deb packaging
<froud> first we must have the xml and then enrico needs to do his stuff
<claude> enrico ? in the coffee shops :)
<claude> i'm doubting :(
<froud> he is back but he is tired
<froud> enrico will get his part done you can count on him
<claude> hr told me he was in Amsterdam for two weeks...
<froud> trickie is working on methods to transform from po to xml
<froud> yes
<claude> yes, i saw, that part seems ok
<froud> if we need to then one of the devs will do the rest
<froud> perhaps jdub
<froud> or thom
<mdke> claude, ok i've generated the xml
<mdke> its not brilliant
* froud is just very busy with long documents at the momement. 
<claude> thks froud
<froud> claude: do you feel like translating 600 pages
<claude> arghhhh
<claude> 8-P
<froud> 7 documents
<claude> please stop !
<mdke> claude, screenshot at http://mdke.mine.nu/images/xml.png, i've left the error i got from terminal on it too
<froud> porting from OOo Writer to Docbook
<claude> mdke: could you just send me your po (paroz@email.ch)
<mdke> ok
<mdke> claude, sent
<mdke> the accents seem to have come out ok, but the index is not right (i assume)
<mdke> claude, i've generated an xml with the french po file, and it looks the same, so probably everything is ok
<froud> <menuchoice><guimenu>Actions</guimenu><guimenuitem>Expunge</guimenuitem></menuchoice>
<froud> what a strange word for a menuitem
<froud> How to translate that
<froud> :-)
<mdke> gnome 2.8 uses that
<mdke> actions
<mdke> claude, http://mdke.mine.nu/images/xml-fr.png
<claude> mdke: yes, you have to execute the xml file in the context of ubuntu-doc
<claude> in the about-ubuntu folder
<mdke> i did
<claude> otherwise, the relative links doesn't resolve
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> if I do yelp ubuntu-doc/aboutubuntu/aboutubuntu.xml, i get the same thing
<mdke> i won't do another screenshot, but its the same
<mdke> anyway the important thing is that the -it.po seems to be ok
<claude> yes, the it xml file seems ok for me
<mdke> phew
<mdke> ok thanks VERY much for your help
<froud> mdke: send the po when you are ready with it
<mdke> froud, will do
#ubuntu-doc 2006-04-03
<mlalkaka> i have an idea for the ubuntu wiki: we should create a page called UbuntuTutorials. On that page, as you probably expect, there would be tutorials on how to use Ubuntu Linux. but the tutorials should be video tutorials (with a narrator). programs like xvidcap or istanbul could be used to record the audio/video, and we could save it in ogg theora, so there are no patent problems.
<mlalkaka> what do you people think?
<LaserJock> hmm, sounds like a lot of bandwith but it could be kinda fun
<Burgundavia> that would be a great idea
<robotgeek> mlalkaka: yup. 
<Burgundavia> why not use byznaz instead?
<Burgundavia> that gets us gifs, and can actually be a wiki page
<robotgeek> i guess someone needs to start off with a tutorial on how to make those videos
<mlalkaka> Burgundavia, i haven't heard of it until now.
<Burgundavia> mlalkaka: byznaz is a screen recorder, that makes gifs
<Burgundavia> it is fairly new
<mgalvin> could someone ping me for a screenshot on the flight 6 review?
<trappist> my kingdom for one that makes mpegs
<Burgundavia> trappist: mpegs are non-free
<Burgundavia> ogg or gif (ick) only
<Burgundavia> likely flash
<mlalkaka> Burgundavia, that would work well
<trappist> aren't gifs patent-encumbered?
<trappist> or that expired
<robotgeek> yeah, that too :)
<mlalkaka> mgalvin, i'll ping you; what's your ip?
<Burgundavia> gifs are no longer patent encumber, I believ
<robotgeek> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/gif.html
<mlalkaka> i think the Unisys' patent expired in 2003.
<mgalvin> mlalkaka: i mean just send me a message with my nick in it like you just did, i need a notification screenshot, but i need to have the window minimized first
<mlalkaka> oh ok
<mgalvin> send a little msg in like 5 sec
<Burgundavia> mlalkaka: various patents expire at various times
<mlalkaka> mgalvin, How are you today?
<mgalvin> mlalkaka: great thanks! :)
<mlalkaka> mgalvin, no prob.
<mlalkaka> Burgundavia, do you know byznaz's website?
<Burgundavia> mlalkaka: no, but is available in dapper
<Burgundavia> it likely doesn't have one
<mgalvin> mlalkaka: just sudo apt-get install byznaz
<mgalvin> there is not site
<mgalvin> just byznaz --help
<mgalvin> it works well, it used it for...
<mlalkaka> i'm still running breezy, and it's not in breezy repositories
<mgalvin> https://www-master.ubuntu.com/testing/flight5#head-d0b765295e82254f427c986d82e19149909ba70f
<mgalvin> ah
<robotgeek> mgalvin: auth
<mgalvin> oops
<mgalvin> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/flight5#head-d0b765295e82254f427c986d82e19149909ba70f
<mlalkaka> but what about sound? we'll need a narrator
<mgalvin> gifs could be used for the more simple things and demos and such just to keep size down, you would still need ogg or something for those
<mlalkaka> mgalvin, i'm guessing you used it for the shutdown sequence? how did you shutdown sequence, though? xnest?
<mgalvin> in vmware player, or you could use qemu
<mgalvin> i just use vmware player b/c its free now and much faster than qemu
<Burgundavia> mlalkaka: sound would be nice, but not critical
<Burgundavia> mlalkaka: plus once you involve sound, it gets more difficult to produce and thus more time and thus is unlikely to be done
<mlalkaka> Burgundavia, lol true
<mlalkaka> mgalvin, what's the difference between vmware player and vmware?
<trappist> you can't make new vms or modify the vm in the player
<mgalvin> mlalkaka: vmware player only plays existing images
<mgalvin> but you can create the images with qemu
* mgalvin breaks out more wiki pages
<mgalvin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VMwarePlayerAndQemu
<Burgundavia> vmware player is evil
<Burgundavia> we should not be producing documtation with that
<mlalkaka> Burgundavia, we won't have to, don't worry. i was just asking out of curiosity
* mlalkaka loves wikis
<mgalvin> only semi evil, i just don't normally have time to wait around to qemu, even on 64 bit machines its slow
<Burgundavia> qemu is slow
<Burgundavia> installing extra software for help == very very bad
<Burgundavia> regardless of it status
<mgalvin> i know, i know
<mgalvin> if its any consolation, i do use qemu when i am not pressed for time :)
<Burgundavia> let me get you a screencast of the deskbar at work
<mgalvin> go for it, that would be great
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: that would be nice to see
<robotgeek> i just love konqueror's features. plus io slaves in kde are just awesome 
<mlalkaka> what do you think the first tutorial should be?
<robotgeek> how to make a screencast :)
<mgalvin> i was thinking of adding some kubuntu and edubuntu stuff to DapperFlight6 this time around, any opinions?
<mgalvin> robotgeek: good choice :)
<mgalvin> +1
<robotgeek> mgalvin: +1 on the (edu)/kubuntu stuff, if it doesn't clutter 
* mgalvin hints that flight 6 will be tomorrow
<mgalvin> yea, i don't want it to be a big mess
<robotgeek> mgalvin: even for kubuntu?
<Burgundavia> mgalvin: I wouldn't
<Burgundavia> you get a diluted marketing effect
<Burgundavia> is: People wondering which piece is for which deriv
<Burgundavia> however, Kubuntu
<Burgundavia> a seperate page for Kubuntu and Edubuntu would be great
<crimsun> F6 tomorrow? Geez I hope not. 2.6.15-19.29 can't go out in F6.
<mlalkaka> can i create a wiki page with a normal account?
<mgalvin> mlalkaka: yup
<mgalvin> on wiki.ubuntu.com, yes
<mlalkaka> mgalvin, how?
<Burgundavia> mlalkaka: just go the page you want to create and click edit
<mlalkaka> lol oh
<Burgundavia> mgalvin: got a deskbar screencast, should I upload it?
<mgalvin> robotgeek, crimsun: thats not a hard date, just a possible target date, if something is that broken it will probably be toward the end of the week, we shall see, the flights kindda happen whenever its ready
<mgalvin> Burgundavia: great, thanks, go ahead
<mgalvin> Burgundavia: and... good point... i will not include k/edu stuff
<Burgundavia> mgalvin: how do I get gifs to cycle?
<Burgundavia> can I edit that in the gimp?
<mgalvin> Burgundavia: well i used byzanz with -l and set cords
<mgalvin> Burgundavia
<mgalvin> byzanz-record -l ...
<Burgundavia> ah, -l
<Burgundavia> hmm, I ticked "search Yahoo", but it doesnt' seem to be doing it
<Burgundavia> oh, wait it takes a second
<mgalvin> darn internet, making us wait, whats with that ;)
<Burgundavia> excellent, got a great screencast
<mgalvin> Burgundavia: sweet, thanks!
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: do you mind showing me too :)
<Burgundavia> already up on DapperFlight6
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: ah, okay
<robotgeek> thanks, looks neat. kio-beagle in konqueror is also convienient
<Burgundavia> mgalvin: the theme just changed, so you might want to reshot the screenshots
<Burgundavia> mgalvin: I would also point you at ReportingBugs for the section on repoting bugs
<Burgundavia> mlalkaka: do you have an idea for a good first screencast?
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: i'm sorry, i lost the link to byznaz 
<Burgundavia> robotgeek: apt-get install byzanz
<robotgeek> i keep mistyping the thing
<mlalkaka> Burgundavia, robotgeek had the idea to make a screencast about making screencasts, so that the community can start contributing as soon as possible.
<Burgundavia> not certain that is the sort of thing that needs to be screencast
<Burgundavia> but I could document the way I made this screencast
<mgalvin> Burgundavia: i pulled that reporting bugs content from DapperReleaseNotes, but anyway, that is a good start page, i will change it
<Burgundavia> ReportingBugs does need some cleanup
<mlalkaka> Burgundavia, ok. well i think the first thing a new user needs to do (at least for many things), is to add the universe and multiverse repositories. a user who installed from cd would also need to change main and restricted repositories to the up-to-date internet repositories.
<mgalvin> bah, i thought i got ubuntulook 10... is it really that different
<Burgundavia> mgalvin: it just changed
<mgalvin> Burgundavia: what are the rev numbers, i didn't see the Accepted msg go by?
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> you might be right
<mgalvin> i have ubuntulooks 0.9.9-1 and ubuntu-artwork-10
<Burgundavia> that is the latest
<rob> hi
<mgalvin> whew, ok good
<mgalvin> is there a new name for it or can i call it Carmelicious ;)
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CreatingScreencasts
<Madpilot> nice tutorial, Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> want to write the ogg section?
<mgalvin> cool
<mlalkaka> Burgundavia, that was pretty fast
<Burgundavia> mlalkaka: I move quickly when I want to
<mlalkaka> UbuntuTutorials is up, and links to CreatingScreencasts.
<mlalkaka> lol
<Burgundavia> mlalkaka: I would move that UbuntuTutorials to UbuntuVideoTutorials
<mlalkaka> Burgundavia, you're right, it's better to be specific
<Burgundavia> I met on the TTC guys at UBZ and he was interested in video tutorials
<Burgundavia> TTC = Tactical Technology 
<Burgundavia> Collective
<mlalkaka> Burgundavia, how do i delete the UbuntuTutorial page now?
<Burgundavia> they help NGO's with technology
<Burgundavia> mlalkaka: more actions --> rename page
<mlalkaka> alright i gtg
<mlalkaka> thanks for all the help/input
<mlalkaka> i've started a list of suggested tutorials on UbuntuVideoTutorials, in case anyone comes up with some good ones.
<robotgeek> mlalkaka: cool. let's hope we are able to build on this
<mlalkaka> robotgeek, i hope so too. i have my semester finals in two weeks, but i'll try to get started. if not, i'll start after my finals
<Burgundavia> we need to fix up /Projects to be more inviting to someone new
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, so does that searchbar thing in Dapper only use Yahoo search for web stuff? Can you point it to other search engines instead?
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: yes, you can use google, but you need a key
<Burgundavia> each user has to generate that key
<Burgundavia> and deskbar needs  nice way of graphically taking that key, as currently you need to hack some stuff
<mdke> morning
<Burgundavia> morning mdke
<mdke> hi corey
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, sorry, was afk - by 'key' you mean a Google cookie thing, more or less?
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: I think so
<Burgundavia> install deskbar-applet and see for yourself
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, did you watch that Novell user vid?
<Burgundavia> nope, been working on my book
<Burgundavia> I have tortured myself with a few of those videos
<Madpilot> this one was quite painful, WRT the actual utility of screenshots in docs...
<robitaille> Madpilot:  did you manage to get the sound?
<Madpilot> robitaille, nope - might have to try something other than totem-xine
<janimo> hello
<janimo> is it now easier to get svn access to the doc repo than it used too?
<janimo> there are some people interested in keeping xubuntu-docs there
<Burgundavia> janimo: the general rule is patches then access, but if someone has some work elsewhere we can look it, we can accelerate the process
<janimo> Burgundavia: thanks I'll tell the person to come to this channel and talk about it
<Burgundavia> janimo: thanks
<Madpilot> given that we have no xubuntu-docs in our SVN at all AFAIK, patches would be kind of hard... :P
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: patches can add stuff
<janimo> he is making a xubuntu-desktop-guide based on the ubuntu one
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, true
<Burgundavia> but if they are adding new docs, they can just send the file for an inital import
<Madpilot> janimo, cool - UDG has already been "ported" to Kubuntu DG, nice to see it's going to Xubuntu as well
<janimo> Madpilot: yes :)
<janimo> it is even closer to the ubuntu one than kubuntu
<janimo> more apps are shared
<Madpilot> janimo, are you (and the XDG author) on the docteam mailing list?
<janimo> Madpilot: nope
<janimo> I can start tracking that though
<janimo> through gmane
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contact <-- janimo 
<janimo> ok 'subscribed' :)
<janimo> was there a plan for switching doc team to bzr?
<mdke> a vague one, but nothing particularly concrete yet
<Burgundavia> night
<Madpilot> night
<Burgwork> anybody around who knows printers well?
<trappist> I recently successfully troubleshot both of mine and learned a lot, if that counts - but as they say in the support channels, just ask your question :)
<Burgwork> no, I am looking for somebody to write some stuff about printers for pay
<trappist> ah.  that's not me but I know somebody
<Skirka> hello
<LaserJock> hi Skirka 
<Skirka> is there documentation somewhere that explains how to install ubuntu and be able to dual boot with windows?
<LaserJock> Skirka: I'm pretty sure there is something on wiki.ubuntu.com
<Skirka> thanks
<luzi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WindowsDualBootHowTo
<luzi> hey, i've started some work on a xubuntu desktop guide and have some questions.
<robotgeek> luzi: go ahead. 
<luzi> i've heard that ubuntu-doc people would be willing to integrate it in their svn repository.
<Burgwork> yep
<luzi> you can check out a 'demo' at http://www.doink.ch/xubuntu-doc/build/xubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html
<luzi> and a tarball at http://www.doink.ch/xubuntu-doc/xubuntu-doc-firststeps.tar.gz
<robotgeek> luzi: looks nice, but if it needs to go out with dapper, the string freeze is april 6th
<luzi> oh. that's very little time, i'm afraid...
<Burgwork> luzi, yes. You might be able to a specific exemption for it
<robotgeek> luzi: i think you might want to mail the list with this link
<luzi> ok, i'll mail to the list then. 
<luzi> so do i just wait for someone to put in svn, and then send patches?
<luzi> i'm kinda new to all this...
<trappist> Burgwork: lemme know if you still need a printer god
<robotgeek> luzi: well, the general procedure is that someone will put it in the repository and you will keep sending in patches
<luzi> ok, and how about images? for example, i modified the 'admon' pictures, because they were renedered against a white background.
<robotgeek> luzi: admon?
<luzi> i mean the images for 'caution', 'important', 'tip', ... in ubuntu-doc/common/admon
<robotgeek> luzi: no a good idea, the rest of the docs use those
<robotgeek> luzi: you can have images elsewhere tho
<luzi> yeah, but i think duplicating the images wouldn't make sense. instead, they 'common' images should be rendered against a transparent background, which would suit everyone.
<luzi> s/they/the/
<robotgeek> luzi: include that also in your email to the list :) i have no clue about images/transparency related issues
<mdke> I'm not so sure the string freeze will necessarily have to apply for an xubuntu doc
<mdke> there's no indication that edubuntu is going to be bound by it, so there's no reason xubuntu should too, unless they want to translate the documentation
<mdke> luzi, ^
<luzi> ok, good.
<luzi> i don't think there's going to be translation for a while.
<mdke> you haven't used much of the ubuntu desktop guide, perhaps you can copy some more of it
<mdke> nice start though
<mdke> where's the code?
<robotgeek> luzi: also look at kubuntu :)
<robotgeek> i copied over lot of stuff from ubuntu desktop guide (udg)
<luzi> thanks! you can get the code at http://www.doink.ch/xubuntu-doc/xubuntu-doc-firststeps.tar.gz
<mdke> luzi, is anyone else helping you out?
<luzi> yeah, i hope to copy quite a bit of the good stuff from ubuntu and kubuntu desktop guide.
<luzi> not at the moment, but i hope to get some more people aboard, once the stuff is set up.
<mdke> transparent admon files would be much appreciated
* mdke catches up on scrollback
<Skirka> where would i find if my graphics card is supported under ubuntu
<mdke> Skirka, best to search the wiki or forums
<luzi> mdke, the transparent images would have to be done by the person who created them.
<luzi> because in the PNG file, the layers are lost.
<mdke> I have no idea where the files came from
<mdke> I looked recently, and didn't find it
<luzi> i made a quick hack, which will work for backgrounds which are close to white. it's here: http://www.doink.ch/xubuntu-doc/transparent-admon.tar.gz
<mdke> you rock
<mdke> we might have to remake icons then I suppose
<mdke> know anyone who likes that sort of thing?
<luzi> nope
<mdke> so do your icons work on complete white?
<luzi> yes, they should look exactly the same as before on a white background.
* mdke nods
<luzi> i'm slowly starting to get the hang of the GIMP ... :o)
<mdke> :) ok I'm off, see you around
<luzi> bye
#ubuntu-doc 2006-04-04
<k31th> Hi guys, how do i find out what sections need docs for ?
<LaserJock> k31th: what do you mean?
<k31th> LaserJock: well i need to contribute I cant code. Id like to give some thing back... Where do i look to see wat docs need to be made etc 
<k31th> :D
<robotgeek> k31th: moment
<k31th> robotgeek: k
<robotgeek> k31th: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects is a list of all projects, and most have status pages
<robotgeek> status pages say which ones need help :)
<k31th> i guess there is a wiki on wat tools you use etc? docbook  by any chance ?
<robotgeek> k31th: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/GettingStarted
<k31th> tbh i can do alot of the server stuff...
<k31th> Right, I will find the time to do some docs as Ubuntu has helped me alot.
<k31th> but rite now im gonna go to bed im nakard
<k31th> night all
<trappist> k31th: if you know wireless networking that needs help bad
<trappist> so does the apache2 section of the serverguide
<k31th> trappist: well thats good :D
<k31th> as i know alot about wireless!
<trappist> ossum
<k31th> trappist: and i use apache alot daily 
<k31th> :D
<k31th> trappist: the wireless stuff
<k31th> is that in  desktop guide or in server ?
<k31th> or ?
<trappist> server
<trappist> maybe both but definitely server
<k31th> I see 
<k31th> well can i put my name down for that ?
<trappist> no need
<k31th> I just write it ?
<trappist> keep in touch with me on it though, as I was gonna be messing with the apache stuff too
<k31th> kool...
<k31th> I guess ill read your getting started age first
<k31th> page
<k31th> I take it all these guides are for dapper
<k31th> apt-get install docbook then ?
<trappist> yeah you'll want docbook stuff
<trappist> and yeah dapper
<k31th> I run dapper here and at work on my desktop there.
<k31th> does that app use rsync to make sure ui have the latest version of the docs ?
<k31th> just following this 
<k31th> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<trappist> not exactly
<trappist> it's more like cvs
<k31th> Ahh i know cvs 
<k31th> well i know how to set it up :D
<k31th> trappist: what editor do you guys use ?
<k31th> Is samba4 going to be in dapper
* k31th goes to bed
<Burgwork> k31th, no
<k31th> ah 
<k31th> night
<Burgundavia> anybody awake
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Linuxsoftwareformat
<Burgundavia> this needs to be renamed. I was thinking SoftwarePackingFormats, but I am not crazy on that title
<kbrooks> Burgundavia, "Source files are nothing but raw code which requires compilation to work."
<Burgundavia> kbrooks: the text is going to be edited next
<Burgundavia> right now I am looking for input into the name
<kbrooks> Python source code doesnt "require" compilation
<kbrooks> well, i think that is a good name
<Burgundavia> done
<Burgundavia> thanks
<kbrooks> Burgundavia, which, in general, requires compilation to work. 
<Burgundavia> if you want to go to town on the text, be my guset
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwarePackagingFormats
<Burgundavia> ok, software installation on the wiki is a mess
<kbrooks> Burgundavia, mess how
<Burgundavia> many many pages with duplicated content
<robotgeek>  /away
<robotgeek> actually, that was to remove my away status :P
<mgalvin> could anyone possibly take a good n-m screenshot?
* mgalvin only has 1 wired nic :-/
<Burgundavia> mgalvin: just a sec, but I believe nm is segfaulting
<mgalvin> Burgundavia: yea i know there are still issues with it atm... i could always drop it from the review for now and cover it in a future review (if it stabalizes)
<mgalvin> Burgundavia: but if you can than great
<Burgundavia> mgalvin: ok, coming up
<Burgundavia> I need to go offline for a sec so that x-g doesn't show up in my notification area
<mhz> does dapper include XGL ?
<crimsun> in universe, yes.
<Burgundavia> mgalvin: got a screencast
<mgalvin> groovy!
<Burgundavia> shall I upload it Flight6 ?
<mgalvin> go ahead and add it, i gotta edit an image now anyway
<mgalvin> yup :)
<Burgundavia> mgalvin: I am going to break the intro up some too, it is too many words in one para
<mgalvin> ok, it is a bit long
<mgalvin> maybe move some of the delay info to the delay section possibly
<mgalvin> if it fits well
<Burgundavia> mgalvin: take a look now
<mgalvin> Burgundavia: cool, looks good, thanks... i would keep the notes on top together somewhere for two reasons...
<mgalvin> one all the other previous flight have the note that way and
<mgalvin> the intro now does not talk about the delayed date so the note doesn't seem to fit there quite right
<Burgundavia> the note is important and I think relevant right away
<Burgundavia> moreover, the first note is far more important and needs to be stated right away
<mgalvin> i read it again, yea it sounds fine as it is now, and the shorter sections keep the reader reading quickly
<Burgundavia> http://www.impi.org.za/ <-- ok, their website kicks our ass
<kk100> Hi
<kk100> Dose Ubuntu support PPPoE connection?
<Burgundavia> kk100: I have no idea. This is a channel for documentation. The help channel is #ubuntu
<Madpilot> hi all
<robotgeek> hey Madpilot 
<Burgundavia> salut Madpilot
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, so no Bellingham for you this year?
<Burgundavia> sadly no
<Burgundavia> I will arrive in Seattle at 1pm on Saturday
<Madpilot> you'll be coming back from making that sale, right?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Madpilot> 1pm Sat - even if I flew down to SEA to meet you, we'd only get back to Bellingham in time for the last hour or two of the thing
<Burgundavia> ya
<Madpilot> I see the Xubuntu docs folks have posted to the ML - is someone going to add their stuff to SVN?
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: go nuts
<Madpilot> heh. OK...
<mdke_> it's just one folk right now isn't it?
<Burgundavia> afaik
<robotgeek> yup
<Burgundavia> that is what janimo seemed to indicate in his speech
<mdke> if we put it in the archive, we ought to think about getting the folk access
<Burgundavia> and quickly
<mdke> unless we want to make him send patches for a while. But he seems to know pretty well what he's doing
<Burgundavia> boy dasher is fun
<Burgundavia> seems to be using less cpu that before
<mdke> Madpilot, do you know strict xhtml? 
<Madpilot> mdke, I can hack away at it, with help from Bluefish & Screem
<Madpilot> BTW, I'm about to commit the Xubuntu stuff...
<mdke> Madpilot, do you have any time to convert ubuntu/browserstartpage/C/index.html?
<Madpilot> mdke, to XHTML Strict?
<mdke> yeah
<Madpilot> not this week, no. But next week with luck I'll have free time - and our freeze isn't until the 6th, yes?
<mdke> that's right
<mdke> if we can get it to strict, it may be easier to translate.
<Madpilot> right - I'll convert it sometime next week, then
<Madpilot> XDG committed, btw
<mdke> nice
<mdke> yes, commit access. I'll send an email today
<mdke> are we making an exception for the "ubuntu member" rule?
<mdke> if so, let's make one for trappist too
<Madpilot> fine by me
<mdke> i never liked that rule :)
<Madpilot> the CC might have another opinion, though...
<mdke> it's our rule, I thought, not the CC's
<Burgundavia> I consider the creation of that xubuntu stuff enough for ubntu membership
<Burgundavia> and I think if we think a cadidate is likely to pass, there is no reason to get them started earlier
<mdke> what if we're wrong and then they don't? do we remove the access?
<Burgundavia> then we wait
* mdke states for the record that it's a bad rule
<mdke> ok let's go for it with trappist and luzi.
<Burgundavia> I think, in general, them being an Ubuntu member or actively trying is a good rule
<mdke> Burgundavia, if someone only likes documentation, it's difficult to become an ubuntu member without first getting on the docteam, I think
<mdke> "actively trying" might be ok though. albeit tricky to judge
<Burgundavia> actively trying is "on the list and wants to become a member"
<Burgundavia> if they express no interest in becoming an ubuntu member, I question why they are even trying to help us
<mdke> sure
<Madpilot> are there Xubuntu LiveCDs yet?
<Burgundavia> not yet
<Burgundavia> the building of xubuntu cds has been delayed until everything in xubuntu-meta is in main
<Madpilot> ah
<Burgundavia> which I believe just happened, so after flight 6 I believe it will be turned on
<mdke> cool
<Burgundavia> ok, that is broken. OO.o stores their recovery files in tmp, which doesn't help when the power dies
<robitaille> Burgundavia:  somewhat related to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/33444
* Burgundavia is going to open a bug "OO.o is shite. It must die. Kthxbye"
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: lol
<robitaille> I heard of a company in Redmond that ship a great office product :)
<Burgundavia> here is another fun one -->  tell where I search for the bug database on this page: http://qa.openoffice.org/issuelinks.html
<Burgundavia> no thanks
<mdke> gotta love their bug tracker
<Burgundavia> even the OO.o people bitch about their infrastructure
<Burgundavia> wow, that is cool. Not only does this movie crash totem, it also crashes gdb
<Madpilot> OK, that's odd - I can't get XDG's Common Tasks chapter to display in Yelp/Breezy
<Burgundavia> robitaille: do you have the various gstreamer plugins enabled? can you download http://pdl.warnerbros.com/wbmovies/vforvendetta/Super_Bowl_1280.zip and confirm that it crashes?
<Madpilot> anyone else want to try the XDG in Yelp?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: moment
<robotgeek> Madpilot: works
<Madpilot> robotgeek, Breezy or Dapper?
<robotgeek> dapper
<robotgeek> Madpilot: sorry, i did not see your comment
<Madpilot> hmm. bug in Yelp/Breezy, then. it validates, so I'll just commit the thing... :P
<Madpilot> OK, another XDG commit done, just for the heck of it
<robotgeek> how do we cut and paste tables in oo, it's too tough for me
<Burgundavia> robotgeek: first you take a knife and hold out your wrist. Then you press down and cut, opening the vein. This would be less painful that using OO.o
<robotgeek> yes. it is actually that frustrating
<robotgeek> i find it easier in xml/latex
<robitaille> Burgundavia:  that Super Bowl ad  crashes for me using totem-gstreamer in Dapper
<Burgundavia> robitaille: cool, I will file
<robitaille> Burgundavia:  it also crashes gxine and vlc.  I think there is something wrong with that movie
<Burgundavia> robitaille: might be
<robotgeek> i can't see the video, even on vlc
<mdke> Madpilot, the thunar entity isn't defined
<mdke> I'll fix, if that's ok
<Madpilot> sure - what did I leave out, though? it's in xubuntu/libs/xubuntu.ent
<mdke> it's in the wrong directory :) should be in menus/C
<mdke> it still doesn't look great in yelp, because there is no title on the sect1 heading
<Madpilot> gah, I just created it in menus/... bleh
<Madpilot> That's what I get for messing with a new set of docs at midnight after a long day :P
<mdke> heh
<mdke> wow this guy knows what he is doing, Makefile looks good
<k31th> Morning 
<mpt_> yo
<mdke> yo ho ho
<mpt_> Anyone got links handy for the Ubuntu Documentation things translatable in Rosetta?
<mdke> mpt_, they are not there yet
<mpt_> How are they going to be processed into a format Rosetta understands?
<mdke> mpt_, using xml2po
<mpt_> thanks
<mdke> mpt_, why do you ask?
<robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation mpt_ 
<mpt_> mdke, because the Ubuntu-Women are trying to use Rosetta to translate stuff
<mpt_> and I think they're translating only wiki pages, so Rosetta isn't really useful
<mdke> I would agree
<mdke> just reading that mail now
<mdke> if she can get pot files from the wiki pages, it can be done, I suppose
<mdke> seems like a bit of a hassle to request a separate set of ubuntu-women translators for each language, though.
<mpt_> yeah
<mpt_> there's only about a dozen of them in total
<mdke> and integrating with the existing Ubuntu teams isn't an option?
<mdke> i know the italian team would welcome any new contributors
<robotgeek> would anyone know offhand how to specify only certain xml tags for translation?
<robotgeek> using xml2po, that is
<mdke> you can't do it
<mdke> you can include comments (in the usual way) though
<robotgeek> okay, thanks
<mdke> include the comment directly before the <para> tag
<mdke> why do you need it?
<robotgeek> mdke: well, for easyubuntu descriptions
<Madpilot> night, all
<mdke> robotgeek, oh right, np
<robotgeek> mdke: well, i can ask people to translate only the ones with label tags :)
<mdke> the tags should get stripped out, no?
<robotgeek> i mean, #: pkg-breezy-x86.xml:41(label) 
<mdke> ah
<robotgeek> anyways, back to stupid gui popping
<mdke> robotgeek, you might be able to talk to the xml2po maintainer and ask if single tags can be specified, or if not, how difficult it would be to enable that functionality
<robotgeek> mdke: well, i gotta get the program up and running first, translations should be a snap after that
<mdke> robotgeek, :)
<ompaul> at the risk of being silly was it intentional that the directory in a users home directory called examples was all read only? I put the latest and greatest on my laptop last night went for the orange desktop and was happy :)
<mdke> ompaul, ECHAN?
<ompaul> mdke, ehh how to rephrase
<mdke> ompaul, we don't look after example-content. But yes, I think it is intentional
<ompaul> ahh okay
<ompaul> cos it was sample docs and stuff I thought there might have been input from here :)
<k31th> Jesus this dell site is so slow
<highvoltage> k31th: praying won't make the internet faster
<k31th> :D
<k31th> Using konquer works well on the dell site
<jjesse> robotgeek_away: is the kubuntu updated and ready for an updated package build?
<jjesse> mdke: will you hate me forever if i have lost my password for svn ?
<kgoetz> what licences does the ubuntu-doc team use? GNU FDL and one of the CC licences?
<jjesse> let me check
<kgoetz> thanks.
<kgoetz> i wasnt sure where to start looking
<jjesse> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/License
<kgoetz> thanks
<mdke> jjesse, yeah
<mdke> (not really, *hugs*)
<jjesse> i think when i wiped my hard drive and reinstalled dapper it got lost in one of my backups ;(
<mdke> these things happen. Have you still got your gpg key?
<jjesse> i think so
<jjesse> i can find it from a back
<jjesse> up
<mdke> just make sure you've got it (A60BF16A) and I'll ask elmo to resend your password
<mdke> jjesse, any luck?
<mdke> -> home
<jjesse> mdke: yes i have my key
<robotgeek> jjesse: ping
<jjesse> robotgeek: pong
<robotgeek> jjesse: for the kubuntu-docs package? i'm sure that we will be getting more changes as the week goes, but i guess abuild would be ok
<jjesse> robotgeek: riddell was working for a build for flight6
<jjesse> was/is
<robotgeek> jjesse: okay. (lag)
<jjesse> robotgeek: no worries
#ubuntu-doc 2006-04-05
* Burgwork now owns Ubuntu Linux: From Novice to Professional
<LaserJock> Burgwork: really?
<Burgwork> me publisher bought it for me. Industrial espionage
<LaserJock> nice
<Burgwork> too bad they Ubuntu Linux and not Ubuntu, which is our actual name
<LaserJock> my grandpa used to take my grandma around the country on industrial espionage trips ;-)
<k31th> yo
<k31th> right
<k31th> shall i write some thing on wlan
-banbot:#ubuntu-doc- lol g, join #bant0wn and get hugs visit http://binrev.on.nimp.org/?u=bantown for more info. #ubuntu-doc SUCKS
<k31th> hum does kate work with docbook?
<LaserJock> I don't see why it wouldn't
<Burgwork> k31th, yes
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: wth was the banbot?
<Burgundavia> robotgeek: no idea, it was some random troll hitting a bunch of chans
<robotgeek> tor abuser
<Burgundavia> sadly yes
<robotgeek> mdke_: does the omf file in kubuntu direcotyr serve any purpose, it's very outta shape :)
<robotgeek> howdy Madpilot 
<Madpilot> hi robotgeek 
<robotgeek> brb, need to reload screen
<robotgeek> howdy LaserJock 
<Madpilot> EasyUbuntu made LWN.net
<robotgeek> damn
<LaserJock> hi robotgeek 
<Burgundavia> very good
<Madpilot> actually linux.com, but lwn picked it up
<Madpilot> http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/03/23/1653209
<robotgeek> oh well, the improvements are all in svn. 
<robotgeek> Madpilot: thanks for the info. i gotta get back to proofreading now
<mdke_> robotgeek, no purpose
<robotgeek> mdke_: okay, just doing some cleanup of desktop guide before meeting tommorow
<mdke_> mpt, what do you mean by "the way its authors are grouped"?
<mdke_> robotgeek, the equivalent of the omf files for kubuntu are in khelpdesktop
<robotgeek> cool, as long as i don't have to mess wit hit :)
<mdke_> no
<LaserJock> mdke: I'll give a status report on the packaging guide at the doc team meeting tomorrow, ok?
<LaserJock> mdke: work is kicking my butt :(  however, I got a little help from raphink yesterday and today.
<mdke> LaserJock, you don't have to ask my permission :) that's great
<robotgeek> LaserJock: saw lots of work in one commit
<LaserJock> mdke: I'm updating the status attributes as I go so the status report should be fairly current
<mdke> rock
<mdke> mpt_, did you get my hilight above?
<irvin> Madpilot, ping?
<Madpilot> irvin, hi
<irvin> hi! are you the maintainer of the desktop guide on doc.ubuntu.com ?
<Madpilot> irvin, I'm one of them - mdke is the other
<irvin> is the guide targeted for dapper? i found one issue on installing the flash plugin
* robotgeek listens in
<irvin> the guide points out installing flashplayer-mozilla but the package does not exist in dapper
<irvin> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=flashplayer-mozilla&searchon=names&subword=1&version=dapper&release=all
<Madpilot> irvin, the one in our SVN & at doc.ubuntu.com is for Dapper
<irvin> it does however exists in breezy
<crimsun> flashplayer-mozilla was removed upon my request because it is 1) illegal to distribute from our repos in binary format, 2) obsoleted by flashplugin-nonfree
<Madpilot> OK
<irvin> crimsun, yup, flashplugin-nonfree would be the package for dapper
<robotgeek> ty
<irvin> :)
<Madpilot> I'm not yet running Dapper myself - but it's just a swap of flashplugin-nonfree for the -mozilla package?
<irvin> Madpilot, yes. but it's worth checking the java plugin too 
<mpt_> mdke, as in, the people working on the Foo Guide, the people working on the Bar Guide, the people working on the Hum Guide
<Madpilot> mpt_, ??
<mpt_> for various values of Foo, Bar, and Hum
<mpt_> I'm not explaining myself well, am I :-/
<robotgeek> mpt_: nope
<mpt_> clear as mud
<mpt_> ok
<robotgeek> irvin: i take it that it's only x86
<irvin> robotgeek, yes
<Madpilot> robotgeek, if you update the Flash stuff for KDG, I'll just borrow for UDG - thanks
<mpt_> mdke, what I'm trying to say is that I'd still like to see one day, opening the help viewer, to see things like "Adding & Removing Programs", "Getting online", "Printing", "Troubleshooting", etc *on the front page*
<Madpilot> mpt_, so have the desktop guide open rather than the current top level of Yelp?
<mpt_> Madpilot, I don't particularly care *how* it's implemented
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i have konq stuff, you might have to search replace
<Madpilot> robotgeek, I'll plunder, probably over the weekend, unless Matt gets to it first
<mpt_> Madpilot, maybe instead of a "Desktop Guide" there could be a "Getting Online Guide" and a "Printing Guide" and a "Troubleshooting Guide" and so on
<mpt_> and then just drop the word "Guide" from all of them :-)
<robotgeek> mpt_: maybe too late in the game?
<Madpilot> mpt_, the desktop guide could do with a large shakeup for Dapper+1 - start a spec so we can argue about it
<Madpilot> irvin, what do you mean about the Java guide, btw?
<irvin> Madpilot, hold on for a sec, i'll double check first
<mpt_> robotgeek, Madpilot, I wrote the spec at UDU
<Madpilot> mpt_, URL?
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: where are we at with the desktop guide? can I play with reviewing this weekend?
<irvin> Madpilot, oops... false alarm.
<mpt_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpfulHelp
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, as far as I can tell, the Ubuntu DG is done, barring typos & some changes like this flash plugin thing
<mpt_> see also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHelp/Contents
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: ok, I will peer at it on Sat or Sunday
<mpt_> but yeah, Dapper+n I guess
<Burgundavia> can we create a pseudo-document to use as the main page, instead of the current listing
<Burgundavia> I seem to remember some sort of technical issue with having a document as the main page
<Madpilot> mpt_, we've got most of the content for /UbuntuHelp/Contents, just arranged differently from that spec
<mpt_> great
<irvin> anyway i'm off guys...sorry for the noise ;)
<robotgeek> irvin: later, thanks :)
<robotgeek> Madpilot: it's just a oneliner :)
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: the instructions in the dvd playback section are not enough to get dvds playing
<Madpilot> mpt_, the one big hole in our desktop guide is the networking section - there's zip about linking to other machines (with any OS) - compared to the UbuntuHelp spec
<mdke> mpt_, oh right. Surely you have a copy of dapper and you can see that isn't implemented yet
<mdke> Madpilot, robotgeek, the mozilla flash plugin might still be shipped with dapper. Infinity is contacting macromedia about it
<Madpilot> mdke, OK, I'll leave that for now
<robotgeek> mdke: konq doesn't need a plugin :)
<mdke> ok
<robotgeek> i can't verify it anyways, i'll mark as Help!
<mdke> if infinity doesn't manage to get the plugin back, we can include instructions about installing from the install package
<Madpilot> gah. Flash is such a damned irritation... :P
<Burgundavia> yep
<mdke> yes, but it's not too hard to install
<Burgundavia> we have a serious issue with dvd that we are going to need to address asap
<mdke> Burgundavia, in the guide?
<Burgundavia> yes
<mdke> argh. what issue?
<Burgundavia> the instructions don't work, I just tried them
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, hmm. "insert DVD, wait for Totem to start" doesn't work in Dapper?
<mdke> Madpilot, the instructions include the libdvdcss stuff
<robotgeek> i think Kubuntu will be fine as we don't use gstreamer
<Madpilot> right
<Burgundavia> yes, they don't include the logic to link gstreamer with the dvd stuff
<mdke> Burgundavia, what is the logic?
<mdke> we can add it
<Burgundavia> gstreamer0.10-dvd, which doesn't exist yet
<mdke> ok
<mdke> we may have to recommend another player for dvds then
<mdke> we'll see if it exists or not
<robotgeek> so people would be using totem-xine with libdvdcss?
<Burgundavia> not been ported because Fluendo cannot pay someone to do it, for fear of opening themselves up
<Burgundavia> let me play. I may have a solution yet
<mdke> robotgeek, I would favour just installing xine
<mdke> no need to play around with mucking up totem-gstreamer
<Madpilot> anyway, need sleep. I'll catch up on patent stupidity & media player entertainment tomorrow...
<mdke> heh, night
<Burgundavia> let me see if gxine works
<robotgeek> it plays fine in breezy, i watched a season of "X" in it 
<robotgeek> i forgot what X is, Ray Romano
<Burgundavia> robotgeek: gstreamer has changed major versions since breezyt
<mdke>  [09:10:31]  < mdke> is there any sign of a gstreamer0.10-dvd from upstream?
<mdke>  [09:10:38]  < seb128_> no
<mdke> he's so blunt, gotta love im
<robotgeek> Everybody Loves Raymond. <sigh>
<mdke> Burgundavia, does totem work if you install -ugly?
<Burgundavia> mdke: nope
<mdke> seb says it does
<Burgundavia> hmm, let me confirm
<Burgundavia> I have all of ugly installed. I will confirm with a fresh flight 6 tomorrow
<mdke> i'll check too
<Burgundavia> so much work, so little time
<Burgundavia> mdke: what do you think of swapping out kino for pitivi for video editing?
<mdke> Burgundavia, I have no experience with either of em. which is better?
<Burgundavia> pitivi is newer
<Burgundavia> nicer UI, but I have no idea which is more stable
<mdke> maybe we should include both, so people can compare
<robotgeek> create a wiki page and point them there
<mdke> i prefer including things in the guide, if possible
<Burgundavia> ick
<Burgundavia> maybe we should leave kino in for this release
<Burgundavia> pitivi devs say it is alpha quality
<mdke> ok. maybe a oneliner at the end saying, these other applications exist for video editing: X, Y
<mdke> ?
<Burgundavia> ya
<mdke> are there any other applications that are good we could mention?
<Burgundavia> ok, I truly regret ignoring the desktop guide until now
<mdke> no problem, you have a week :)
<Burgundavia> right
<robotgeek> hmm, sound sucks in both the guides
<Burgundavia> sound sucks in linux in general, tbh
<mdke> Burgundavia, so will you do the pitivi addition, or shall I?
<robotgeek> alrite, me bed. later
<robotgeek> okay, let me add to agenda :)
<robotgeek> alrite, cya all at the meeting tommorow :)
<Burgundavia> mdke: you can. I don't have write access from this box
<mdke> ok
<mdke> Burgundavia, I've written this:
<mdke> <para>You can also try the <application>PiTiVi</application video editor by installing the <application>pitivi</application package from the <emphasis>Universe</emphasis> repository (see <xref linkend="add-applications"/>). <application>PiTiVi</application> is a video editor for the GNOME desktop. It is still in fairly early development, but worth a try.</para>
<mdke> tell me if that's ok
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<mdke> ok
<mdke> tell me if you see anything else
<Kamping_Kaiser> i noticed that the wiki team email is the doc team email - does that mean i ask questions about the wiki here?
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, yes
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. I was a bit confused about making subpages on the wiki - if you want a page to branch off from another page do you prefix it with / ? and the other question was 'which software runs the ubuntu wiki'?
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, moinmoin is the answer to q2
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, as for a subpage, are you talking about creating one, or linking to one?
<Kamping_Kaiser> mdke: making one. i want to add a sub page to my wiki home to put work in progress stuff 
<mdke> ok, just enter the name of the page you want
<mdke> so https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KampingKaiser/NewPageName, for example
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh, that easy? ok. thanks
<jjesse> anyone else having problems staying logged in onto the wiki?
<trappist> jjesse: I stay logged into the wiki even between reboots.  never have had a problem.
<jjesse> are you running kubuntu or ubuntu?
<Kamping_Kaiser> my god - i just spent 4 hours trying to work out why a doc didnt validate - a space in front of the xml declaration
<Kamping_Kaiser> now it's finding other errs. GRR
<trappist> jjesse: kubuntu
<jjesse> trappist: i rebooted and it solved my problem ?
<jjesse> wierd
<trappist> I get creeped out when rebooting linux solves a problem like that
<trappist> if I write a macro for the wiki, who should I send it to?
<trappist> I was thinking I'd like to write a series of moinmoin macros for making links to launchpad objects like bugs, projects, people etc.
<mdke> henrik@
<mdke> awesome idea btw
<trappist> that's @ubuntu.com?
<mdke> yes
<trappist> cool, thanks
<trappist> I think that'll be a post-freeze project of mine then
<mdke> I've been playing with something
<jjesse> yeah?
<mdke> I've made an index page for the documentation in xml
<jjesse> anything good
<mdke> and some build scripts to build the whole website
<jjesse> sounds like fun
<mdke> it looks like this: http://mdke.org/images/help-index.png
<mdke> it should mean that that index page is translatable too, and hopefully that making the website with all the translations can be done really simply
<jjesse> that would be cool
<mdke> i might upload it
<mdke> i haven't completely figured out translation though
* mdke uploads
<mdke> let me know what you think: http://help.ubuntu.com/Dapper/
<mdke> oh yeah, forgot the install guide
<trappist> I expected it to be bigger for some reason
<mdke> the index?
<trappist> yeah
<mdke> what's missing?
<trappist> I don't guess anything... I thought the top level list would be longer than that.
<mdke> trappist, any idea how to make a script which goes to the archive, fishes out the latest debs of the installation-guide, extracts them, and copies the files to the build directory?
<mdke> you're a knowledgeable chap
<mdke> actually, I wonder if what we want to do is get the source, apply a few patches and build the documents with the same style as the other docs
<mdke> hmm
<robotgeek> we should stop building our pages. just use the xml with a style sheet :P
<trappist> cool, robotgeek volunteered to write the xsl :)
<robotgeek> trappist: lol. 
<mdke> the xsl is there, but robotgeek has to teach firefox to read xml
<robotgeek> we only need to have a css, and tell the xml file to use the style sheet. 
<robotgeek> it won't work in in ie6, i think
<robotgeek> i'm not the css/xml/xhtml guru :)
* mdke blinks
<mdke> firefox can convert docbook to html on the fly?
<robotgeek> yup. let me pull up a link
<robotgeek> http://www.mcs.csuhayward.edu/~grewe/CS6320/Mat/XML/SampleWCSS.html
<robotgeek> http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/x-dw-x-xmlcss-i.html
<mdke> that isn't docbook though, right?
<mdke> hrmph, looks clever
<robotgeek> i tried to change it, but the xslt stuff was too difficult for me
<mdke> dudes: i may not make it to the meeting, have a good one
<LaserJock> mdk:!
<LaserJock> mdke: bummer dude
<mdke> LaserJock, is there something I can help with now?
<mdke> by the way, is that doc-base thing fixed?
<LaserJock> mdke: no, I just like it when you are at the meeting ;-)
<LaserJock> the doc-base thing is fixed for Ubuntu
<LaserJock> but not Kubuntu
<mdke> ok, fair enough
<mdke> got to go now, catch you later maybe
<LaserJock> If I have time I'll certainly try to get the Kubuntu docs done
<LaserJock> they should be easier than the Ubuntu docs
<Burgwork> mdke, the website probably shouldn't be at /dapper/
<jjesse> LaserJock: i won't be at the meeting either tonight :(
<LaserJock> ughh
<jjesse> sorry 2100 UTC is hard to do for me
<jjesse> hmm wait i did the math wrong i think 
<jjesse> i did i'll be there
<LaserJock> ok, sweet
<trappist> 2100 UTC Fridays does kinda suck
<trappist> that's quittin' time here
<trappist> at -0600
<LaserJock> trappist: 3:00 ?
<trappist> did I do the math wrong too?  I thought that meant 5pm
<trappist> dang it I did
<trappist> so never mind
<trappist> 1500 != 5pm
* LaserJock hands a calculator to jjesse and trappist 
<trappist> no kidding
<LaserJock> I cheat and use iCal ;-)
<trappist> after 6 years in the marine corps you'd think I could handle a 24 hour clock
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> well, I'm going to have to leave at 22:00 because I've got a meeting to write a constitution for a Chemistry Graduate Student Association 
<trappist> those things have constitutions?
<LaserJock> if we want official recognition (and money) from the university we do
<trappist> cool
<jjesse> 22:00 UTC is quitting time for me :)
<trappist> you guys hiring? ;)
<LaserJock> jjesse: what is that local?
<jjesse> 5pm
<jjesse> i'm in EST, -5 GMT
<LaserJock> ah, I'm -8, Pacific
<mdke> Burgwork, how come?
<Burgwork> mdke, the official name of the release is 6.06, not dapper
<Burgwork> this has been a major source of confusion before and we should not be perpetuating it
<mdke> sabdfl asked for it, but I don't know if he is attached to "Dapper" rather than 6.06
<mdke> I'll ask if it's ok to change it
<jjesse> so will there be a /6.06 and then a /whateverthenextrelease date is?
<mdke> yes, and we'll keep 5.10 too, I would think
<jjesse> cool, don't forget to add the release notes :)
<Burgwork> is . a valid part of url?
<mdke> jjesse, i won't :)
<mdke> Burgwork, i don't know
<mdke> don't see why not
<Burgwork> ok
<mdke> yes, seems to work
<mdke> we'll have to change the link in gnome-panel
<jjesse> are there references in kubuntu to it?
<mdke> not in gnome-panel, no
<jjesse> but are there other references to help.ubuntu.com in anything for kuubntu?
<mdke> I have no idea
<jjesse> on the packaging guide and the server guide is there a way to take out the Ubuntu and refer it somehow to theversion that you are using?
<jjesse> so it looks like the "Kubuntu Server Guide" and "Kubuntu Packaging Guide" 
<jjesse> khelpcenter in the contents section has it as kubuntu server guide, but when you open it up it says "ubuntu server guide"
<mdke> I can't think of a way to do that, I'm afraid
<jjesse> bummer
<mdke> they should probably be called the same thing in the khelpcentre stuff... not sure
<mdke> we could change them to "Ubuntu Server/Packaging Guide"
<mdke> up to you
<LaserJock> yeah, is there a naming scheme that is neutral?
<jjesse> could we just call them Server Guide and Packaging Guide
<LaserJock> when I say Ubuntu I mean the big umbrella (Edubuntu, Kubuntu, Ubuntu)
<LaserJock> jjesse: we could but there are Ubuntu ( i.e. not Debian) specific things in the Packaging Guide
<mdke> LaserJock, yeah. jjesse, I think they need some identification with the operating system
<jjesse> mdke:  makes sense that way how do i change khelpcenter?
<mdke> edit the files in trunk/kubuntu/khelpdesktop
<jjesse> still waiting on password ;)
<mdke> ok, I'll do it.
<mdke> I haven't emailed yet: I am waiting on a response from luzi and i was going to email all at once
<jjesse> ah ok
<mdke> if he doesn't respond I'll just send off for you and trappist 
<trappist> sorry, I wasn't following the conversation - send off for what?
<mdke> commit access
<trappist> oh cool
<mdke> Burgwork, what's the apress book like?
<jjesse> is that the official ubuntu book?
<jjesse> or a different one?
<mdke> jjesse, i thought your one was the "official" one ;)
<mdke> http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10086
<jjesse> yeah it is, but burgwork is working on it as well
<jjesse> i loose track of the different ubuntu books coming out
<mdke> heh
<jjesse> do a search on amazon 
<Burgwork> mdke, not bad. A little techy. My editor bought it for me so we can compare
<jjesse> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0132435942/sr=8-2/qid=1143661668/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-0903874-8555820?%5Fencoding=UTF8 is the official book
<mdke> Burgwork, someone from apress mailed me and asked me to give it a review on my blog hahaha
<jjesse> wasn't it just reviewed on slashdot as well?
<mdke> yeah, it got 9/10 apparently
<Burgwork> the apress book was technically reviewed by John Hornbeck
<trappist> Burgwork: hey were you still looking for that printer guy?
<mdke> right, it's been published already
<Burgwork> no, I mean it was reviewed by John before it went to press (checked might be a better term)
<Burgwork> trappist, not certin
<Burgwork> given I am going to be in Lawton, OK at the end of April, I will see if I can meet up with John
<mdke> just socially, or for doc related reasons?
<Burgwork> socially
<robotgeek> meeting in 10 minutes?
<mgalvin> hey all, DapperFlight6 is about all done in case anyone has time to give it a quick review
<Burgwork> mgalvin, flight 6 just got released, so you had better copy it to the website too
<Burgwork> s/too/soon
<mgalvin> was the email sent already? i didn't see it yet
<jjesse> mgalvin: excellent work as usuall
<jjesse> didn't see the email either
<mdke> it's not mirrored yet, see -devel
<mgalvin> jjesse: thanks :)
<jjesse> today's daily kubuntu is flight6 for kubuntu users :)
<Burgwork> mail is going to be sent in the morning
<jjesse> now if i can just clear somethings out do to the kubuntu flights :)
<jjesse> dang it why can i never remember which packages i need to build the docteam stuff?
<robotgeek> jjesse: i saw the new docs, yay
<jjesse> robotgeek: which new docs?
<mdke> jjesse, read kubuntu/debian/control for the packages you need
<jjesse> oh in flight6
<LaserJock> docbook-xsl
<robotgeek> jjesse: the kubuntu-docs package :)
<Burgwork> mdke, the idea of migrating everything to docudo really appeals to me, provided it can do docbook, etc.
<Burgwork> merging wiki and offline
<mdke> i haven't taken a look yet
<Burgwork> http://www.turbogears.org/svn/docudo/trunk/doc/todo.txt
<mdke> ok, I've added releasenotes and moved the url: http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/
<trappist> I've got it checked out and prereqs installed but it's kicking my butt
<mdke> mm?
<Burgwork> trappist, for docudo?
<trappist> yeah
<trappist> a fresh install of turbogears seems to be missing functions docudo expects to find
<Burgwork> might it need cvs versions of turbogears?
<trappist> that would suck.  nothing in the docs about that.
<Burgwork> ask the TG guys
<mdke> night
<Burgwork> trappist, you working on dapper or breezy?
<robotgeek> hmm, i moved my job search data base to moin :)
#ubuntu-doc 2006-04-06
<Burgwork> trappist, how you doing docudo?
<trappist> saying ./start-docudo.py
<Burgwork> trappist, *doing with
<Madpilot> cool, Flight6 is out
<Madpilot> So, should I inflict something April 1st-ish on the wiki's front page? :P
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: not so much
<Burgundavia> but a discrete link might be funny
<highvoltage> salut!
<Burgundavia> salut highvoltage
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: where can i fing the oficial getting started docs again?
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: which one? the desktop guide?
<robotgeek> howdy jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hola
<jsgotangco> recovering from flu
<jsgotangco> :/
<Madpilot> back later, got a Flight6 LiveCD burned now...
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: ah, no good
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: erm, I'm not sure. last night i saw some references to an official Ubuntu getting started guide, which is aparently very, very good. and I'd just like to take a look to see what I'm missing for the edubuntu getting started guide
<robotgeek> recovering is good though :)
<highvoltage> hi jsgotangco 
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: doc.ubuntu.com
<jsgotangco> highvoltage, hi there
<jsgotangco> ahh tux magazine still chose mandriva
<jsgotangco> "I will also be working closely with Ubuntu, another one of the coolest distributions around. Together we'll bring Linux to the desktops!"
<Madpilot> Discuss: While XChat is a POS, XChat-Gnome is equally a POS, for opposite reasons... (only half-kidding...)
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: got a link?
<jsgotangco> must be an april fools prank
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, planet debian
<jsgotangco> (Linus Torvalds)
<Madpilot> Anyway, Flight6 LiveCD works, but the usual LiveCD startup sequence has gone odd
<jsgotangco> it does?
* jsgotangco about to burn flight 6 now
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: no, the mandriva one
<robotgeek> i downloaded flight 5 today. <sigh>
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, its Tux Magazine's latest issue
<Madpilot> jsgotangco: you know the standard LiveCD start - choose language, choose locale, etc? It didn't happen with this Flight6 liveCD...
<jsgotangco> we got a dismal 1 on mutlimedia
<jsgotangco> heh
<Burgundavia> is this the tux distro shootout?
<jsgotangco> hmm interesting..
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, yeah
<Burgundavia> I am not surprised then went with mandriva. They have a hateon for gnome
<jsgotangco> yes it is very much a KDE lovin' zine
<Burgundavia> brb
<Burgundavia> hmm, that is better
<Madpilot> ?
<Burgundavia> I was getting a bouncing when I switched channels
<Burgundavia> when I switched channels, the text would bounce up and down
<Madpilot> fun
<Burgundavia> hmm, maybe the live cd installer will work on this flight
<poningru> jsgotangco: oh man I was hoping it wasnt an april fools joke
<poningru> :(
<poningru> I shouldnt have commented on it
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> but it was timestamped a few minutes before april fools
<jsgotangco> heh
<Burgundavia> I like ubuntuforums.org
<poningru> yeah thats why I was like hmm
<jsgotangco> typepad is not free no?
<Madpilot> the purple is... interesting... :P
<Burgundavia> poningru: what are you referring to?
<poningru> there is a trial period
<jsgotangco> the supposed linus torvalds post in planet debian
<jsgotangco> heh
<robotgeek> hmm, i had the default to kubuntu theme, i missed all the ugly colors ")
<Burgundavia> ah
<poningru> http://linustorvalds.typepad.com/the_kernel_blog/2006/04/account_created.html
<poningru> yeah now I wished I hadnt commented on it
<jsgotangco> there are now 2 trackbacks lol
<Burgundavia> ok, this is good, /. is linking to http://www.cuteoverload.com/
<jsgotangco> lets see whats on digg
<Madpilot> URL soon to be changed to cuteslashdotted.com :P
<poningru> the nubuntu article
<poningru> god I seem to be falling for everything :(
<jsgotangco> hehehe
<jsgotangco> even the colors
<jsgotangco> it got dugg
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_1,_2006
<jsgotangco> nice one on ubuntu pastbin
<jsgotangco> heh
<highvoltage> poningru: http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/izilla.shtml?cpg=28H
<poningru> hehe who owns that?
<poningru> seveas?
<poningru> ubuntu pastebin I mean
<poningru> rofl I know right that one is pretty funny
<poningru> the best is the wireless extension cords
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> haha
<poningru> tesla is spinning in his grave
<jsgotangco> who stated the ponies thing?
<poningru> no clue
<jsgotangco> i know jdub has been saying it for years but hmmm
<jsgotangco> must be related to the toon that my daughter loves
<poningru> rofl
<poningru> they toon with ponies now yech
<poningru> have*
<jsgotangco> yeah its for girls
* highvoltage watched "My little pony" when he was little
<highvoltage> ( NOT! )
<poningru> lol
<poningru> it was all ' Transformer: Beast wars' for highvoltage 
<Madpilot> paste.ubuntu-nl.org has suffered a ROT13 attack, I think... :P
<robotgeek> lol
<poningru> who owns that?
<robotgeek> seveas
<poningru> canonical or someone else?
<poningru> ah ok
<poningru> guessed correctly the first time
<jsgotangco> jeezz i must have been really sick i just placed my glass of ice tea inside my microwave and almost started it
<jsgotangco> poningru, ok so linus is now a DD and wants to work on ubuntu, he'll be a member first hah
<highvoltage> he could always sneek in improvements through the kernel, though
* highvoltage imagines a kernel module that turns Ubuntu blue
<poningru> rofl
<Madpilot> He was rude about Gnome, let's deny him membership! :D
<poningru> konq would be happy
<jsgotangco> highvoltage, what happened to his supposed contribution to edubuntu?
<poningru> he did what now?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: he wouldn't put a license on it :(
<jsgotangco> gee
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: we can't distribute anything without a license
<jsgotangco> yes
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ogra pested him quite a bit, but he didn't get back to us
<highvoltage> he just gave us the code and said "use it", but didn't attach a license
<poningru> he lives in the US right?
<jsgotangco> yes
<poningru> then its full copyright and all rights reserved
<Burgundavia> beaverton oregon
* highvoltage doesn't know
<poningru> huh did not know that
<jsgotangco> poningru, that's the assumption when you're in the US?
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: who gave you code?
<poningru> jsgotangco: yes
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: any country that has signed the berne convention on copyrights
<jsgotangco> ahh
<poningru> Burgundavia: not true the tripps does allow certain leaveway
<Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works
<jsgotangco> computer software is artistic?
<Madpilot> in the broadest sense, sure
<Burgundavia> anything is artistic
<Burgundavia> pretty much
<Burgundavia> minor edits to something are not artisitic and thus probably don;t fall under copyright
<Madpilot> Dog, XChat-Gnome made the sound-alerts thing a seperate plugin, rather than just a basic option... have I mentioned how much I dislike this app? :P
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: Linus Torvalds
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: ugh, that is ridiculous
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: it's a back-end tool to track the ammount of time a user is logged in to the system, you can also limit the ammount of time a user may be logged in
<Burgundavia> very cool
<Burgundavia> Linus wrote it?
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: Linus wrote it to stop his kids fighting over who could use the computer
<highvoltage> yep.
<Burgundavia> rofl
<Burgundavia> but he attached no copyright to it
<highvoltage> ogra started working on integrating it with the student control panel front-end in edubuntu, but we can't include it until we have that license :/
<poningru> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade-Related_aspects_of_Intellectual_Property_Rights#The_requirements_of_TRIPs
<Burgundavia> very cool
<poningru> btw
<poningru> oh wow you got to that a lot faster than me
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: http://userful.com/products/pre-book
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: no license on that either, but it IS open source. I will fix that next week
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: by definition, it can't be open source if it doesn't have a license
<Burgundavia> sadly it is written in openacs
<poningru> Burgundavia: do you know of a good linux distro that is aimed at library systems?
<Burgundavia> poningru: I sell one
<poningru> 0.o
* Burgundavia works for Userful
<highvoltage> :)
<poningru> link?
<Burgundavia> userful.com/library-ds
<Madpilot> <ahem> In the interests of, you know, full disclosure and such... :P
<poningru> yeah there right now
<Burgundavia> poningru: which library?
<poningru> tampa
<poningru> err
<poningru> hillsborough public library system
<poningru> http://www.thpl.org/
<poningru> http://www.hcplc.org/
<poningru> hcplc is kinda like a cooperative of many library systems
<jsgotangco> highvoltage, let's put a "for kids use so they won't fight over the computer"  license then
<jsgotangco> mom and dad approved
<poningru> rofl
<jsgotangco> not OSI
<robotgeek> wow, my blog readership jumped from 11 to 21 for some reason!
<Burgundavia> poningru: oh joy, florida. What a nightmare of incest and political crap
<poningru> indeed
<poningru> err only the latter
<jsgotangco> give them to me anytime
<poningru> we dont look to kindly to the former
<Burgundavia> our company has basically been getting the run around from florida libraries
<poningru> too*
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: that doesn't sound gpl compatible, though :)
<poningru> Burgundavia: hmm really?
<poningru> let me see what I can do
<poningru> ...
<highvoltage> robotgeek: where's your blog?
<Burgundavia> poningru: do you work for a library?
<poningru> my sister is involved with them a little bit
<poningru> naah
<jsgotangco> highvoltage, multiverse? hehe
<robotgeek> highvoltage: http://robotgeek.org/blog
<Burgundavia> poningru: florida is not my territory, so I wouldn't see a dime
<poningru> :(
<Burgundavia> I'd rather sell to hicks in OK and Kansas
<jsgotangco> robotgeek, must because of EasyUbuntu
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: hmm, subscribers. hits is okay. 
<poningru> robotgeek: easyubuntu is on linux.com iirc
<poningru> or was it newsforge
<poningru> something like that
<Burgundavia> the former
<robotgeek> weird. well, i just hope some one is not leeching :P
<jsgotangco> robotgeek, you're already a member right? why not get aggregated in planet?
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: i mailed jeff about it, havent heard back. i should remail and remind
<poningru> Burgundavia: jeez these flash apps are crazy beautifull/well thought out
<Burgundavia> poningru: flash apps?
<jsgotangco> robotgeek, nahh, he'll add them all in one sitting
<poningru> err presentations
<Burgundavia> poningru: got a funny email about that the other day
<poningru> arr?
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: hmm, maybe yes. 
<Burgundavia> poningru: basically boiled down to "I watched those flash apps and they wasted my time. Do you have something better?"
<jsgotangco> lol
<poningru> rofl
<poningru> yes here's your 2mins back using a white hole
<poningru> would you like some matter with that too?
<Burgundavia> nah, I suckered her into a demo with your truly, this time with java
* Burgundavia enjoys being a sales drone sometimes
<poningru> I wished I could do stuff like that
* poningru sucks at sales pitches
<poningru> my boss on the other hand...
<Burgundavia> the stuff I am learning at Userful has been great for my Ubuntu work 
<poningru> dude how much would that stuff cost for a library?
<Burgundavia> poningru: some ;)
<poningru> hehe /me looks around for price quotes
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, you seem to enjoy it though
<Burgundavia> more than breadbox, less than a space trip
<Burgundavia> poningru: don't bother
<poningru> hehe nm
<Burgundavia> we hide it
<poningru> yeah understandable
<poningru> its a service industry it seems
<Burgundavia> by the time I have told you the price, hopefully I will already have you in my "tender" embrace
<Burgundavia> :D
* poningru runs as fast as he can
<Madpilot> you mean your salesdrone pseudopods?
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: sshhh!
<poningru> rofl
<Madpilot> Oh, sorry - I forgot Rule #1: You don't talk about the tentacles.
<Madpilot> :P
<Burgundavia> in all seriousness, library software ain't cheap
<jsgotangco> yes
<Burgundavia> our product isn't bad, for what you get
<poningru> see the thing is our library only has donated stuff and they just use the win license already on it (semi-legal)
* trappist desices to start writing library software
<trappist> *decides
<Burgundavia> most of what you need, edubuntu already does
<Burgundavia> bolt on Sabayon and pessulus and enjoy
<poningru> yeah I was looking at that
<poningru> although dont know what those latter two are
* poningru googles
<Madpilot> trappist: please, write a decent catalog-control app. The one I have to use at work sucks dead donkey schlong
<Burgundavia> I am working with Vuntz to get pessulus to the point of being useful for public computers
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: bug the koha people
<Burgundavia> then convince GVPL to migrate
<poningru> oh yeah
<poningru> is that what ubuntu calls 'lock down agent' or something?
<Burgundavia> yep
<poningru> err lockdown editor
<robotgeek> Madpilot: tellico?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: oh, you gnome ppl
<Madpilot> robotgeek: the library catalog thing we have to use is called Millenium; the front-end is actually a giant Java app... 
<poningru> yeah that is what I was going to take to my library system
<poningru> edubuntu + lockdown editor
<robotgeek> Madpilot: hmm, okay!
<Burgundavia> the one piece you will not beat Userful on is the Multiseat stuff
<poningru> true
<Burgundavia> the in-X multiseat stuff sucks, tbh
<poningru> but we have bunch of old hardware running win 95 and usually an ok new server
<poningru> that is per library btw
<poningru> the 'server' is used to keep track of many things including book checkout
<poningru> and communication with the mainframe downtown
<poningru> I should learn their system better before trying to figure out a software plan
<poningru> err software attack plan
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> figure out what their biggest needs and pains are
<Burgundavia> and then figure out how edubuntu can solve them
<poningru> yeah
<poningru> I should volunteer at a library this summer just to find out what kind of system they use
<poningru> s/system/backend systems
<poningru> robotgeek: rofl I love the advice you give at the end 
<poningru> of your pro keyboard blog post
<robotgeek> poningru: :)
<robotgeek> okay, sent off mail to jeff (from @ubuntu.com) address
<jsgotangco> ?
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: gmail allows for nice masking :)
<Burgundavia> can I get opinions on the text of /Website/Desktop ?
<poningru> at your employers site or yours?
<highvoltage> hehe, me sees what the pony stuff is about on /.
<poningru> you do?
<poningru> I still have no idea
<jsgotangco> no pony for you then
<highvoltage> poningru: http://www.slashdot.org
<Burgundavia> poningru: on the wiki
<poningru> highvoltage: still dont get it :(
<poningru> bah whatever
<jsgotangco> nyahahah
<jsgotangco> i love weekends
<jsgotangco> http://www.goodplasticsurgery.com/angelina_jolie.htm
<Burgundavia> crap. Epip just crashed, taking my almost complete iso with it
<jsgotangco> ewee
<Burgundavia> how do I rsync again?
<Madpilot> Anyone know if xubuntu ISOs got created for Flight6?
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: I don't think so
<Madpilot> ah well
<Burgundavia> I don't think xubuntu is building yet
<Burgundavia> ya, nothing yet
<poningru> arr?
<Madpilot> hmm?
<poningru> the cd package
<poningru> thing
<poningru> xubuntu
<Madpilot> ISOs for it?
<poningru> yeah
<Madpilot> night all
* mdke shakes his head at madpilot
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrontPage?action=diff&rev2=102&rev1=101
<jsgotangco> where's your sense of humour
<mdke> I'm English
<jsgotangco> figures
* mdke shrugs
<mdke> what the hell am I doing wrong
<LaserJock> What should be the capitalization for application names?
<crimsun> e.g.?
<LaserJock> Pbuilder vs. pbuilder in titles and at the beginning of a sentence
<Kamping_Kaiser> imo anything that foollows a full stop is capitalised
<crimsun> Ah, I wouldn't use it that way. I would use "pbuilder" later in the sentence, because it shouldn't be "Pbuilder."
<crimsun> I normally check the man page.
<crimsun> e.g., To execute pbuilder, do such and such.
<crimsun> instead of:
<crimsun> pbuilder can be executed by doing such and such.
<LaserJock> but for instance I have a section titled "Using Pbuilder", should that be "Using pbuilder"
<crimsun> Consistency is key. Since the man page for pbuilder uses lowercase, lowercase should be used there.
<LaserJock> even if the rest of the title is capitalized?
<crimsun> I would, yes.
<LaserJock> hmm, ok
<crimsun> Note that you can skirt the issue by using: "Using Personal builder (pbuilder)"
<crimsun> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/software/pbuilder.html
<crimsun> However, "Pbuilder" is incorrect.
<LaserJock> hmm, so the pbuilder section on http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html should be changed
<crimsun> yes.
<crimsun> Additionally, prepositions should not be capitalised.
<crimsun> "Building with Personal builder (pbuilder)"
<LaserJock> arggh, now I have to figure out what a prepostion is ;-)
<mdke> if anyone has any views on the yelp frontpage rearrangements ideas, can they post on the list?
<mdke> http://donscorgie.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Screenshot-Help-Topics-with-title.png
<mdke> especially mpt__ :)
<mgalvin> maybe server guide before the packaging guide? so it reads... desktop, server, packaging... seems like a better flow to me
<mgalvin> imho
<mdke> yes, good point. Dunno if that's possible though, it looks alphabetical
<mgalvin> ah
<mdke> but the main thing is swapping the ubuntu and non-ubuntu sections, and what the text should be for the bottom section
<LaserJock> I could chang the name of the PG to the Ubuntu Super Dupa' Packaging Guide ;-)
<mdke> lol
#ubuntu-doc 2006-04-07
<LaserJock> muahaha
<LaserJock> I just installed a Moin Desktop Edition on my laptop, now I have my own little personal wiki
<LaserJock> hmm, the GUI editor is sweet
<Madpilot> check Tomboy out - it's a mini-wiki/notes app for Gnome, quite cool
<LaserJock> yeah, I use it quite a bit
<LaserJock> I'm thinking of trying to get the department sys admin to add a wiki for the new Chemistry Graduate Student Association at my uni
<LaserJock> so I was checking Moin out
<LaserJock> anybody set up a mediawiki before?
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: nope
<LaserJock> anybody know what version of moin we use for wiki.u.c?
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: ah, you're here. Do you know what version of moin w.u.c uses?
<mgalvin> LaserJock: 1.3.something
<LaserJock> mgalvin: hmm, ok
<LaserJock> mgalvin: 1.5 seem pretty sweet
<LaserJock> the GUI editor and "render as Docbook" as especially sweet for Ubuntu I think
<rob> what program is this?
<LaserJock> you have to moin
<rob> ah
<LaserJock> sorry, that should be just moin
<rob> new version?
<rob> how clean is the Docbook it outputs?
<LaserJock> rob: looked good to me. just go to http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ and click on "More Actions"
<rob> have you guys seen http://live.gnome.org/LiveDocumentationEditing ?
<LaserJock> I think Corey has been drooling over that ;-)
<rob> yeah, I was talking to the guy behind it, it was done as part of Google's summer of code
<mgalvin> LaserJock: 1.5 is nice but the problem is that our moin has been customized (especially the main www.ubuntu.com site) and it is not a straight forward upgrade :-/
<rob> I was thinking about messing around/Ubuntu-izing it
<LaserJock> mgalvin: ah, makes sense
<LaserJock> I just installed a DesktopEdition on my laptop and got the ubuntuized theme install. quite cool
<LaserJock> I took me all of 10 min. to install it, fire it up, get some themes. And I didn't have a clue about it to start with
<LaserJock> that is pretty impressive to me
<Madpilot> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/37579
<LaserJock> Madpilot: lol, that's pretty good
<Madpilot> hey Burgundavia, you finally got an ubuntu/member/ hostmask
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: indeed I did
<jsgotangco> robitaille: ping?
<robitaille> jsgotangco:  pong
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> robitaille: how are you able to run n-m?
<robitaille> it just works for me
<jsgotangco> i got n-m and the gnome package
<jsgotangco> nothing appears on my notification list
<robitaille> maybe you have to start "nm-applet" manually the first time around
<jsgotangco> there
<robitaille> then it will be in your session for future logins
<jsgotangco> there's an nm-applet in startup sessions though
<robotgeek> nm-applet --sm-disable is better
<jsgotangco> robotgeek: that's what's in sessions
<jsgotangco> nothing seems to happen when i try to invoke it
<jsgotangco> should it be sudo?
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: hmm, no sude
<robotgeek> sudo
<jsgotangco> it just hangs
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: you are going to hate me for this, but restart once :)
<robitaille> but tonight I did lose the applet for a while after putting the laptop to sleep.  But it sorted itself out after a reboot.
<jsgotangco> ive already restarted twice
<robotgeek> i used to run nm in breezy, i don;t run it anymore
<jsgotangco> i got network-manager and network-manager-gnome installed
<jsgotangco> there's another nm-applet not installed but i think this is just a transition package
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: tail -f /var/log/syslog
<robitaille> jsgotangco:  you have to remove "nm-applet"
<jsgotangco> its not installed
<jsgotangco> robotgeek: i get some gconf stuff
<robitaille> I'm about to start installing flight 6...so in a hour or so I'll see if I have to do any special magic to get it working on my laptop
<jsgotangco> im now in flight 6
<jsgotangco> its not installed by default
<robitaille> my first attempt at expresso
<jsgotangco> my startup program has nm-applet --sm-disable though
<jsgotangco> should i try removing it then restart?
<jsgotangco> then manually invoke it?
<robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperNetworkManager
<jsgotangco> nm-applet is running though but where
<jsgotangco> hmm
<robitaille> why don't you kill it...remove it from your session manager, then reboot.  It should restart by itself
<jsgotangco> robotgeek: removing interfaces in /etc/network/interfaces is quite hackish to be useful
<robotgeek> i did not have to do it in breezy though
<jsgotangco> we're in dapper :P
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: maybe to avoid conflict with the gnome tool? not sure
<jsgotangco> in breezy, nm-applet just starts by itself though
<robitaille> jsgotangco:  I had to remove my wired interface in /etc/network/interfaces  so that nm can manage it...it's a new Dapper thing
<jsgotangco> i would guess so
<jsgotangco> ekkk
<jsgotangco> ok let me try that
<jsgotangco> i still have to modprobe my ipw just to be able to reboot though
<jsgotangco> robitaille: killing the session the editing /etc/network/interfaces seemed to work though
<robitaille> good.  Still not user friendly, isn't it :)
<jsgotangco> i have to try wpa though
<robitaille> that should work out of the box now
<robitaille> only wpa...not wpa2.  My router had both choices
<jsgotangco> ah same here
<robitaille> and I never managed to get wpa2 to work.
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> i still have to go to console to turn on my wired ethernet though
<robitaille> that works fine here.  I just did it a few minutes ago
<jsgotangco> i don't have to go to System -> Administration -> Networking anymore right?
<robitaille> no; I never use it anymore.  that take care of /etc/network/interfaces, which should be nearly empty now except for the lo interface
<jsgotangco> ok one more test
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> robitaille: everything i start, it asks for my keyring password before connecting?
<robitaille> yes...annoying but normal
<robitaille> nm keeps your wpa password in the keyring.  Install gnome-keyring-manager to access it
<robitaille> I'm back on my laptop...my 1st expresso install ever :)
<jsgotangco> it works?
* jsgotangco never tried those livecds
<robitaille> yep it worked. 
<robitaille> except for the laptop not rebooting at the end of the install; I had to turn it off/on manually
<jsgotangco> mine doesn't reboot at all, the wireless is not being unloaded
<robitaille> If you start gnome-terminal, do you get a little message about the need to use "sudo" for administrative commands?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<robitaille> that's anoying...I wonder where it comes from to turn it off
<jsgotangco> well i think you only get that for the first time
<jsgotangco> because now i dont get it
<robitaille> oh...I logged out, and logged back in, and it is still there for every gnome-term I open
<robitaille> now it's time to reinstall nm
<robitaille> the backports are gone from a default sources.list?
<jsgotangco> i didnt notice it at all
<jsgotangco> ok now to test other stuff
<jsgotangco> brb
<mdke_> morning
<highvoltage> morning mdke
<mdke> heya highvoltage 
<Madpilot> hi mdke 
<mdke> hi Madpilot :)
<Madpilot> odd - did I send a blank email to the doc ML?
* mdke downloads email
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, you awake>
<Burgundavia> ?
<Madpilot> hi
<mdke> so are people generally in favour of rearranging the yelp toc?
<Madpilot> to put our own docs at the top? Yes
<mdke> ok, so then we need to figure out the wording for the second title
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, tomorrow, shall we meet in the afternoon and look over the desktop guide?
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, sure - what time?
<Burgundavia> 2?
<Madpilot> 2 is fine, I've got a couple of errands to run tomorrow but I can be back here by 2
<mdke> it's still saturday over there?
<mdke> you guys must be up late
<Madpilot> it's actually Sunday, but only just - 0055 here
<mdke> ah
<Burgundavia> holy crap my desktop machine is noisy. Forgot how bad it was
<Madpilot> quiet hardware is worth the extra money :P
<highvoltage> 10:55 here. working peacefully with cricket on in the background.
<Burgundavia> yes
<mdke> highvoltage, *envy*
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, that edubuntu diff email bounced
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, shall I do some work tonight and send it to you?
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: which e-mail address did you use?
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: that would be great!
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, jonathon@ubuntu.com
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, do you have the link again?
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: see http://jonathancarter.co.za/files/jonathan.pdf
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: http://jonathancarter.co.za/docs/ed-gs/ <- getting started
<mdke> cool
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, thanks. Are you actively hacking on it right now?
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: kind of, i only started with it on friday evening, so it's still a bit raw
<Madpilot> mdke, I just had a quick look at converting our browser startpage to XHTML Strict, and it turned out to be a matter of changing four or five tags only
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: just a sec...
<Madpilot> (I love Screem when it works...)
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: i'm moving it here: http://proto.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: if you create an account on the proto site, then we could work a bit easier collaboratively on it
<highvoltage> (still busy uploading, so you'll notice the images are missing)
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, ok, I will hack the text there
<Burgundavia> trappist, did you ever get docudo working?
<Burgundavia> personally, I think docudo is the way forward
<mdke> Madpilot, cool: if you have time, that would be cool. But it's not that essential, so don't go out of your way to do it
<Madpilot> mdke, I've just done it, I'll commit it in about a minute 
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, the one issue with having it there is hardcopy
<Madpilot> Committed revision 2706.
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: yep
<mdke> Madpilot, rock
<mdke> thanks dude
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, do you have plans for that or do we need to keep a seperate copy in the doc repos?
<Madpilot> no problem - it was already XHTML Trans, so moving it up to Strict was easy
<manicka> ?join #ubuntu-au
<manicka> oops
#ubuntu-doc 2006-04-08
<mpt> hrmm
<mpt> Anyone know the command for printing info about the selected window?
<mpt> what class it has, what its dimensions are, what process owns it, etc
<LaserJock> mpt: xprop?
<mpt> LaserJock, great, thanks
<LaserJock> I've had to look that up myself. I just remember that it starts with an x ;-)
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/37836
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: why is that against ubuntu-meta?
<Madpilot> hmm...it was supposed to be against ubuntu-desktop, because I couldn't find the name of the clock's package...
<Madpilot> I'll switch it to gnome-panel
<Burgundavia> already done so
<robitaille> just wait next year when all the old OSes out there will pick the wrong day of the month to switch time...
<robitaille> at least BC  will be the same than the US
<rob> hi 
<Madpilot> robitaille, yeah, that'll be fun. Or the poor Aussies right now, who had the time-change delayed by the Commonwealth Games, to the confusion of many computers...
<rob> that was pretty bad.. lots of people got caught out
<robitaille> personally I against the twice-yearly switch; let's pick one system, and stick with it all year round
<rob> I live in a sane state that does just that
<rob> hey if something was put together using sarma would you guys be intrested?
<Burgundavia> rob: sarma would be cool to play with
<Burgundavia> can sarma be merged with that docudo?
<rob> its been stale for about 6 months now, but I finally got around to downloading it and setting up an apache server locally
<Burgundavia> stale since soc
<rob> I'm not all that failure with docudo
<rob> yeah, I spoke to Danilo who mentioned that
<rob> do you have a link to docudo?
<Burgundavia> http://www.checkandshare.com/blog/?p=42
<rob> just found that one :)
<rob> I'll take a look at that one too (didn't know it existed)
<Burgundavia> just started
<Burgundavia> sort of wiki like, but has some features we want, such as being able to call a doc official
<rob> I'll try to set something up for you guys to play with on a server somewhere once I know more and get something working
<rob> ah docudo uses svn.. very cool (I was thinking about incorporating it)
<Burgundavia> docudo would solve our "svn is only in one place bug", mostly
<mdke> NOTABUG?
<Burgundavia> mdke: ?
<mdke> perhaps I just don't understand the bug, but what is wrong with svn being in one place?
<Burgundavia> mdke: nothing
<mdke> oh
* mdke is all confused
<Burgundavia> mdke: I mentioned that docudo solves the issue of having a centralized svn, by allowing easier editing access, both for new people and old
<rob> mdke, it interfaces directly with svn
<Burgundavia> the only issue that docudo doesn't solve is that of offline access, which could be fixed by changing the backend to bzr, which would be transparent to most editors
<mdke> but if the problem is that svn is centralised, there are a bunch of decentralised version control systems around
<mdke> including one based on svn
<mdke> but I don't think that's the problem, I think we need a centralised system, personally
* rob gives that topic a wide berth;
<mdke> Madpilot, ping?
<Madpilot> mdke, hi
<mdke> hiya, just looking at the DG action
<mdke> I'm not sure deb files and rpm files belong in the apt section, perhaps we should make another section
<mdke> installing deb files isn't really a "command line installation" necessarily
<Burgundavia> we can split the .deb stuff into command line and non-command line
<Burgundavia> I just wanted to keep all the command line stuff safely firewalled in a section so labelled
<mdke> we haven't done that elsewhere in the guide though
<mdke> hmm
<Burgundavia> where we can avoid it, we do
<mdke> yes, but we don't firewall it
<Madpilot> I'm inclined to leave the .deb stuff there, gdebi doesn't really need a section to itself, does it?
<mdke> separating it from dpkg -i wouldn't work, i don't think
<Burgundavia> why not?
<mdke> Burgundavia, because it does exactly the same thing, and is only one line long
<mdke> i think two different sections about installing a deb file would be overkill
<Burgundavia> we could have a little section about downloading .debs, why it is bad and then how to instlal them
<Burgundavia> by that same logic, why do we talk about apt-get in the desktop guide?
<mdke> Burgundavia, that's hardly the same logic, managing programs is a much more complicated and important task, and lots of users prefer apt-get to other alternatives
<mdke> how about a section entitled "installing single files" or something better worded, and including the deb and rpm sections in that
<Burgundavia> help is not about why people prefer
<Burgundavia> if you prefer apt-get, you likely already know enough that you are not going to look at the desktkop guide
<mdke> I don't agree. the entire popularity of ubuntuguide.org was based on using command line expressions that people could pick up from that guide, even where they didn't know it already
<Madpilot> It would be simple enough to add another section to the Add Apps chapter, stick the gdebi/dpkg/alien stuff there, and return apt-get to a chapter by itself...
<mdke> Madpilot, do you like that solution?
<Burgundavia> mdke: ubuntuguide.org is a different audience then the desktopguide
<mdke> Burgundavia, again, I disagree.
<Madpilot> mdke, I don't mind it...
<rob> oh, btw mdke regarding your email about About Ubuntu the other day, I'm pretty sure some of that stuff I wrote.. its up to you if you want to include my name anywhere though
<mdke> Madpilot, do you prefer another solution?
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, ubuntuguide.org is exactly our target audience, I'd have thought
<mdke> yes it is
<mdke> rob, thanks
<Burgundavia> ahhh...
<Burgundavia> never mind, lets release with what we have and have this discuss for dapper+!
<Madpilot> mdke, I can't offhand think of a better way to sort it out; I think the gdebi/dpkg stuff should stay in the UDG
<mdke> me too
<mdke> cool, unless we think of a better solution, I'll do that today at some stage
<mdke> rob, I'll definitely include you, of course
<rob> :) thanks mdke 
<Madpilot> I'll do it now, mdke 
<mdke> rob, any idea if anyone else is missing?
<rob> some of that stuff came from the user guide, not sure who wrote it though
<mdke> I wrote quite a lot of those sections
<rob> you might be ok then
<mdke> and it's been changed enough since then to not worry too much, I guess
<Burgundavia> mdke: have ever read Paul Graham's piece about hard problems?
<mdke> Burgundavia, i don't think so
<Burgundavia> basically, he said "ask yourself 'what is the hardest problem in my field' and 'why am I not working on it?'
<Burgundavia> to me, the hardest problem in our field is not the target audience of ubuntuguide, it is grandma
<mdke> ok.
<Burgundavia> that is where I want the desktop guide to be targeted at
<mdke> to me, both those audiences can be and are accomodated in the desktop guide
<mdke> i don't like the phrase "target audience"
<Burgundavia> heh
<mdke> especially without any research
<Burgundavia> if you don't identify who are writing for, then how the hell can even begin to think about how to meet their needs?
<mdke> because it's important to write in a language which all can understand
<Burgundavia> it is more than just language
<mdke> if grandma speaks english, and ubuntuguide readers speak english, they should both be able to understand the document
<Burgundavia> it is also some basic assumptions
* Madpilot ignores the debate, and gets on with actually writing the damn thing... :P
<Burgundavia> he
<Burgundavia> h
<mdke> while we're on the subject though, there are hardly any grandmas who use Ubuntu, and lots of ubuntuguide.org readers
<mdke> i can say that without any research
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> hence ubuntuguide is not a hard problem
<rob> did ubuntuguide ever get updated for dapper?
<robitaille> hence the docs are not the real problem, but getting new users into Ubuntu is
<Burgundavia> didn't even get updated for breezy
<Burgundavia> yes, once you have them...
<mdke> robitaille, exactly
<robitaille> agree, but that's the 2nd hard problem....
* Burgundavia is crazy enough to think he can take them both on...
<mdke> Burgundavia, you need one before the other
<mdke> if you release a bunch of docs which are targetted at your grandmother, and there are no users like that, the users are gonna think you're crazy
<Burgundavia> hmm. I disagree
<mdke> not that you aren't...
<mdke> :)
<Burgundavia> lol
<Burgundavia> got to keep all you sane people off balance
<robitaille> we probably need both:  get the users in, but at the moment they are in, you want the docs to be there for them
<mdke> absolutely
<robitaille> great docs on their first Ubuntu day is crucial for the long-time acceptance of this new computer thinggy
<Burgundavia> well, soon SILC will have a whole bunch of test subjects using Ubuntu
<mdke> anyway for now, it's important that the desktop guide has the widest audience possible
<Madpilot> Which file includes the admon tags?
<Madpilot> which xinclude, I mean
<mdke> and that for me means being inclusive, not exclusive
<mdke> Madpilot, you mean the conventions section? it's in preface i think
<mdke> yeah preface.xml
<Madpilot> in which directory?
<mdke> common/C
<Madpilot> thanks
<mdke> Burgundavia, if you have a mo, can you chip in with your views on the yelp TOC question on the ML? I'd like to know what you (and everyone else) think
<Madpilot> Committed revision 2714.
<Madpilot>  - with dpkg/gdebi changes - thoughts?
<Burgundavia> mdke: can do
<Burgundavia> mdke: hadn't commented because I saw nothing I didn't like
<mdke> cool, thanks
<mdke> Madpilot, will check later on, got to run to work
<mdke> bye all
<Madpilot> np - later
<mdke> Madpilot, looks good
<Madpilot> mdke, glad you like it
<mdke> thanks for doing that
<Madpilot> no problem
<mdke> Burgundavia, thanks for that reply. I think we should do it too
<mdke> Madpilot, "other available documentation" is good, but i wonder if it would cause confusion with the link underneath entitled "Other Documentation"
<mdke> bhuvan, ping
<Madpilot> mdke, hmm, can we change that "Other Documentation" link to something more informative?
<mdke> Madpilot, we might be able to. "Miscellaneous"?
<Madpilot> "Misc." is nearly as bad as "Other Docs."
<mdke> Madpilot, i'm open to ideas :)
<mdke> so is upstream, probably
<mdke> but I think that that categories defies any better definition
<Madpilot> yeah
<Madpilot> "Other System Docs"? 
<Madpilot> nearly as vague as 'Misc'...
<mdke> yeah, I don't think that adds anything
<mdke> i think we may have to leave it as it is, and try and distinguish in the title
<Madpilot> yeah, that's a really random mix of docs behind "Other Documentation"...
<mdke> ok, I'm gonna grep through our docs and remove "Ubuntu Linux" and replace it with "Ubuntu"
<Madpilot> good - should have been done ages ago
<mdke> the server guide is particularly culpable
<mdke> Madpilot, so any ideas about an alternative title for "Other Documentation", or the general title? why don't you like the word "categories"? 
<Madpilot> There's nothing wrong with the word, I just thought "Other available documentation:" was clear enough without 'categories'
<mdke> so you don't think it will introduce confusion with the link?
<Madpilot> it might
<Madpilot> how about "Other documentation categories:"?
<mdke> yes, I think I'd prefer that
<Madpilot> night all
<mdke> bhuvan, can we remove synaptic from the server guide? same reasons as gnome-app-install
<mdke> bhuvan, also, can we remove the wireless section? it's not server related
<mdke> bhuvan, i've committed some things, lemme know what you think. It's basically proof reading, and removal of those sections
<janimo> hey, I am trying to add the xubuntu guide to the xubuntu-doc package
<janimo> wanted to make sure that
<janimo> the things needed to build it are supposed to be xubutu libs and common directories
<janimo> common/C/preface.xml references gnome-panel.xml which is in ubuntu 
<janimo> are the docs aiming to be organized in modular bits or is it assumed that the whole svn checkout is needed to build either part?
<janimo> s/gnome-panel/gnome-menus/
<mdke> hi janimo 
<mdke> you don't need the whole of trunk for xubuntu
<mdke> let me take a look at common/C/preface.xml, if that needs another file from the ubuntu section, it's a bug
<mdke> janimo, ah, do you mean this line: <!ENTITY % gnome-menus-C SYSTEM "../../ubuntu/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent">
<mdke> we can take that out completely, I think
<mdke> yes, /me does so
<mdke> janimo, ok, so all you need is xubuntu/, libs/, build/  and common/, I think
<janimo> mdke, thanks :)
<bhuvan> mdke: ping
<mdke> bhuvan, pong
<bhuvan> mdke: i'm ok with your changes. It is perfect
<mdke> bhuvan, good. How was your talk?
<bhuvan> it's scheduled on apr 09
<bhuvan> tomorrow i'd be giving a moke-up session at our office!
<mdke> cool
<mdke> it looks good
<bhuvan> oh ok, thanks
<mdke> howto should be two words, though
<jsgotangco> bhuvan, are you in india at the moment?
<bhuvan> mdke: ok
<bhuvan> jsgotangco: yes
<jsgotangco> bhuvan, are you anywhere near hyderabad?
<bhuvan> jsgotangco: in chennai. it is 600kms far away from hyderabad ?
<jsgotangco> i have no idea i'll be in hyderabad in a few weeks
<bhuvan> oh glad to hear
<jsgotangco> 600kms that is far
<mdke> bhuvan, the other thing I've done is to replace "Ubuntu Linux" with "Ubuntu", you might wanna do that in your talk too
<bhuvan> yeah, i noticed; i'll replace
<mdke> ompaul, are you paul o'malley?
<mdke> course you are.
<ompaul> hehe
<mdke> ompaul, do you see bug 27906 on an up to date system?
<ompaul> up to date 5.10 it exists
<mdke> upgraded?
<mdke> jeez
<ompaul> I added kubuntu late laste week
<mdke> what version kubuntu-docs do you have?
<ompaul> no fresh install and all updates 
<ompaul> lets find oout
* ompaul dives into apt-get
<mdke> dpkg -l kubuntu-docs
<ompaul>  Installed: 5.10-0.6.1
<ompaul> apt-cache policy kubuntu-docs
<ompaul> :-))))
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> and what's the bug exactly?
<mdke> ls /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home
<mdke> ompaul, ^
<ompaul> firefox-index.html  index.html
<mdke> and the bug is?
<ompaul> its not pointing to there 
<ompaul> hmm
* ompaul looks to see where the browser points
<ompaul> fire up a willing browser responding with a roar 
<ompaul> okay I repointed FF to packages.ubuntu.com - it still exists for epiphany
<ompaul> /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html
<ompaul> it claims does not exist
<ompaul> now when I put on kubuntu it made the web page blank and gave me a dialogue on firefox which required mouse use so I changed it to point to packages.ubuntu.com
<ompaul> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root    34 2006-02-20 20:37 index.html -> /etc/alternatives/firefox-homepage
<mdke> ok, keep following that
<ompaul> I wonder if that has anything do t with the problem
<mdke> ls -l /etc/alternatives/firefox-homepage
<ompaul> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 59 2006-03-19 21:11 /etc/alternatives/firefox-homepage -> /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/index.html
<mdke> keep going
<ompaul> ls: /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/index.html: No such file or directory
<ompaul> lets look over there
<mdke> good idea
<ompaul> mind a 4 line spam?
<mdke> nope
<ompaul> well its 6 :-)
<ompaul> ompaul@dhcppc0:/usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en$ ls -al ku*
<ompaul> total 44
<ompaul> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  4096 2006-03-19 21:10 .
<ompaul> drwxr-xr-x  66 root root  4096 2006-03-23 09:29 ..
<ompaul> lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root     9 2006-03-19 21:10 common -> ../common
<ompaul> -rw-r--r--   1 root root  4872 2005-10-05 20:18 index.cache.bz2
<ompaul> -rw-r--r--   1 root root  8422 2005-10-05 14:11 index.docbook
<ompaul> -rw-r--r--   1 root root 15170 2005-10-05 14:11 kuser.png
<ompaul> ompaul@dhcppc0:/usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en$
<ompaul> there is no kbuntu 
<ompaul> kubuntu even
<mdke> huh
<ompaul> /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/khelpcenter/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/C/index.html
<ompaul> look at the previous path, I could only cd as far as en
<ompaul> hang on a sec pastebin
<ompaul> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11378  nick buggy
<ompaul> lines 63 64 65 tell a story
<ompaul> in  /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/index.html
<ompaul> there is no kubuntu directory
<mdke> yes
<mdke> do ls /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/khelpcenter
<mgalvin> mdke: you gonna be around for a while?
<mdke> mgalvin, we can make an appointment :)
<mdke> what's up?
<ompaul> mdke, it exists there http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11379
<ompaul> ompaul@dhcppc0:/usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/khelpcenter/kubuntu$ ls -al
<ompaul> total 24
<ompaul> drwxr-xr-x  6 root root 4096 2006-03-19 21:10 .
<ompaul> drwxr-xr-x  8 root root 4096 2006-03-19 21:10 ..
<ompaul> drwxr-xr-x  3 root root 4096 2006-03-19 21:10 about-kubuntu
<mgalvin> mdke: :)... was just talking with Jane... i wanted to get with you to discuss that stuff a bit, i gotta run to a quick work meeting, be back in like 20 min
<ompaul> drwxr-xr-x  6 root root 4096 2006-03-19 21:10 images
<ompaul> drwxr-xr-x  3 root root 4096 2006-03-19 21:10 kquickguide
<ompaul> drwxr-xr-x  3 root root 4096 2006-03-19 21:10 krelease-notes
<ompaul> ompaul@dhcppc0:/usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/khelpcenter/kubuntu$
<mdke> mgalvin, ok, i just mailed about it, apparently the flash intro isn't happening for dapper now
<mdke> ompaul, that's what I wanted, thanks. Damn that's a stupid bug
<ompaul> mdke, its a dead bug
<ompaul> (or it is now :)
<mdke> i dunno, it might be more serious
<ompaul> well it might tie into the bug I stuck in last night
<ompaul> let me get it for you
* ompaul felt ill when I thought about it
<jjesse> isn't that an old problme? the wrong link for the home page of firefox? 
<ompaul> Bug 37699
<mdke> jjesse, yes, it looks like there is a stupid error in the latest package we did
<jjesse> d'oh :)
<ompaul> that might have something 
<ompaul> mdke, its not a doc team think but damn its ugly and it impacts what one sees
<mdke> no, I think that's unrelated
<ompaul> s/think/thing
<jjesse> i never noticed because i don't use firefox
<ompaul> jjesse, lets put it this way I found a way to make a 12 million pound computer run out of spool space in less than 20 minutes :) 
<ompaul> I should not be let near computers :)
<ompaul> that value was 5 years ago or there abouts
<ompaul> most likely you could do what was done with it on linux with 2 high end p4/AMD PCs and a couple of terrabytes of raid
<ompaul> but someone had the budget
<mdke> ompaul, ok, thanks for your help
<ompaul> mdke, its all one club :-)
<ompaul> mdke, is there a doc anywhere that says Group A own this which has those parts List Z? 
<mdke> ??
<ompaul> is there a document anywhere that says "Team A"  owns this which consists of these "List Z"? 
<mdke> what do you mean by "this"?
<mdke> packages?
<ompaul> this might be ubuntu-base kubuntu-desktop or their components - yes packages
<ompaul> I rewrote that 5 times before you said packages :)
<mdke> i suppose looking at the "Maintainer" tag in apt-cache show packagename might be what you're looking for, but I'm still not sure I understand
<ompaul> okay if I step back from the question, launchpad when I wanted to define a bug I find it difficult to point a finger to the correct location
<ompaul> so I guess
<mdke> sometimes it isn't easy to figure out what package a bug belongs to. You just have to do your best, and hope it will get reassigned, if it's wrong
<ompaul> perhaps, I will think about it and agree with you in an hour and four minutes :)
<mdke> ok...
<ompaul> I have to convince myself there is no better way :)
<trappist> the boss is working from home today, so I can get away with spending a little time on docs ;)  what's in need of proofreading?
* LaserJock whistles innocently
<Burgwork> trappist, anything and everything, but I think the packaging guide and hte server guide need more work
<mdke> yeah
<trappist> I'm all over the server guide - I dunno what parts of the packaging guide are ready for review, and which are being worked on
<trappist> there's a page somewhere for that :)  I'll assume it's up to date
<mdke> i did some playing around with the package management section of the server guide today, you can start after that
<trappist> on the serverguide, I want to focus on fixing up the apache2 section before doing any more proofreading.  I think that's pretty critical.
<LaserJock> trappist: have at sections marked as "Awaiting Review" at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/status/pg-report.html
<trappist> LaserJock: ossum
<mdke> trappist, yeah, apache is critical, looks like you already made a good start on it
<trappist> yeah I'm afraid to see how much more there is, but that felt like a good start
<mdke> trappist, the server guide in general is quite basic, so no need to cover _every_ apache configuration option, unless you want to :)
<trappist> I know almost exactly enough about apache to keep it at its current level of detail, so that's what I'm aiming for
<mdke> cool
<mdke> jjesse, you need some special tools to build pdfs, I'm afraid
<mdke> and pdfs are included in the "make website" thing
<mdke> oh, trappist ^^
<Burgwork> mdke, is that the non-free crap?
<mdke> it's non-free, anyway
<LaserJock> but very cool 
<mdke> yeah, pretty cool
<trappist> LaserJock: you're sure about "any" vs. "all" for the Architecture on a package?  I can't find any docs on it, but it seems like "any" would be arch-independent and "all" would mean we're building binaries for each supported arch.
<trappist> does seem to be right.  I would have made it the other way :)
<LaserJock> trappist: let me check, I get them confused sometimes
<LaserJock> all is arch-independent and any is for all arches
<LaserJock> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Architecture
<trappist> cool.  your doc is right then, but I think somebody screwed that up way back when - the nomenclature is counterintuitive, at least to me.
<LaserJock> well, it has confused quite a few MOTUs at times ;-)
<LaserJock> I think the logic goes something like:
<LaserJock> "all" package will work on all arches without rebuilding
<LaserJock> "any" packages are able to be built on any arch
<trappist> that hurts my head
<LaserJock> but I think I would have done something like "indp" instead of "all"
<LaserJock> lol, welcome to packaging :-)
<trappist> yeah that would have been more transparent
<LaserJock> I think the concept of arch-dependent and arch-independent is much clearer than any and all
<trappist> yeah, since that's what any and all is supposed to mean
<LaserJock> but alas, the great Debian gods in the sky didn't see fit to make it so
<LaserJock> and we must submit ourselves to the Great Law of the Debian Policy ;-)
<trappist> I've always wondered, but have been afraid to ask anybody who might know, whether we want to stay a debian spinoff or eventually go out on our own like mandrake from redhat.
<LaserJock> I think that would depend very greatly on the amount of manpower we have
<Burgwork> trappist, sticking with debian is quite important
<LaserJock> right now we have nowhere near the man power needed for that
<Burgwork> regardless of manpower, hiving off like that is not politically acceptable
<LaserJock> well, yes there is that too :-)
<trappist> we don't have all the same policies as debian, and it's not too hard to imagine that that could lead to increasingly divergent packages and configurations that would eventually make it mutually beneficial for us to become more of a fork
<crimsun> it's actually quite difficult to imagine that.
<crimsun> remember that out of 17000 packages, how many do we support directly in main?
<Burgwork> around 3k I think
<crimsun> which, at best, leaves 14k for us to pull from Debian
<Burgwork> last I checked, about 10% of all the packages in ubuntu had a -XubuntuX version number
<trappist> that does seem like a manageable number
<LaserJock> and I imagine that number could drop if we were better about getting things upstream (and having them accepted of course)
<crimsun> upstream Debian or upstream upstream?
<LaserJock> both
<crimsun> then we're still bound to Debian
<LaserJock> like these .desktop files for instance
<crimsun> (and really, that's the way it should be)
<LaserJock> I'm just saying we could probably decrease our delta a bit
<crimsun> no objections there at all
<LaserJock> so in the end I think there isn't really any reason to fork from Debian
<crimsun> we can't, really, if we expect anything to scale
<trappist> there would be an insane amount of duplicated effort, to be sure
<crimsun> I don't know about you, but I have 24 measley hours, and with our numbers, we can't maintain 14k packages all with deltas.
<LaserJock> exactly my point
<LaserJock> but in the end the policies aren't that much different
<LaserJock> A good package in Debian will make a good package in Ubuntu. I't might need a tweak here or there for deps for example
<LaserJock> but it seems like packages flow fairly easily both ways
<trappist> I don't know where all the divergence in the cupsys package came from, but I'm very, very glad to see the recent changes there, which iirc are more in line with debian
<trappist> <3 pitti
<crimsun> trappist: that doesn't happen to be your changelog thread on u-d, does it?
<trappist> yeah that's me
<crimsun> sigh. It's not about attribution, though it's nice. It's about putting work into it. Besides, there's a bug reference in the changelog, and your name is attached to the bug report.
<trappist> yeah, if somebody really wants to know, he can find out it was my patch.  but attribution is part of my motivation for putting the work in.
<trappist> my motives are less than 100% selfless
<trappist> but I don't think I'm asking for much
<mdke> how about including a patch on the changelog, trappist :)
<trappist> mdke: yeah there is that.  I've had some frustrations with debdiff where my diff *only* has the changelog delta.
<mdke> i don't know much about it, I always do apt-get source ; cp source source-new ; changes ; diff -ur source-new source > my.patch
<LaserJock> yikes
<mdke> that way if I change the changelog, it comes out
<LaserJock> debdiff all the way :-)
<mdke> I've only ever done patches for ubuntu-docs and the occasional .desktop file though
<LaserJock> trappist: a debdiff is the best way of getting your changelog in
<LaserJock> trappist: because if it is good, then the sponsor doesn't have to touch it, just sign it and upload
<trappist> LaserJock: yeah I always try that first.  but as I said sometimes it doesn't work out, and I'd rather get a patch uploaded than not
<LaserJock> trappist: there must be something wrong with what you are doing. debdiff has worked every single time for me
<LaserJock> I can help you next time if you want (and I'm around)
<trappist> I'll try pinging you next time.  it seems pretty straightforward, though.  I edit some file under src/ and I edit the changelog.  I say debuild -S then debdiff this.dsc that.dsc and I get only the changelog changes.
<LaserJock> hmm, editing files in src/ is generally not the best way to go, but it should come out in the .diff.gz
<LaserJock> I'd have to take a look
#ubuntu-doc 2006-04-09
<Burgwork> ugh, anybody got a tux magazine "subscription" so they coudl send me the pdf without pain?
<frank__> hi. I have a suggestion for a change in the kubuntu desktop guide. I don't really have the time to learn what is needed to submit a patch. Would a simple suggestion be appropriate? Where? ubuntu-doc mailing list?
<jjesse> frank__: that would be great to the mailing list thanks :()
<jjesse> doh wrong smily
<jjesse> :)
<frank__> jjesse: ok. thanks. that kubuntu desktop guide is great! I've been trying to test kubuntu dapper from a new user's perspective. There is lots of good info in there!
<jjesse> frank__: thanks robotgeek_zzz has beeen working on makig it great :)
<robotgeek> frank__: here now, but mailing list would be great. (falky wireless)
<robotgeek> flaky
<robotgeek> frank__: thanks for the tip :)
<frank__> robotgeek: np 
<robotgeek> damn, kcontrol / System Settings has crapped out on me!
<robotgeek> Module Disks & Filesystems not found!
<robotgeek> frank__: i will type the instructions up, would you be able to verify them for me?
<robotgeek> howdy LaserJock 
<frank__> robotgeek: sure
<LaserJock> hi robotgeek 
<jjesse> hello LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi jjesse 
<jjesse> wow currently i have 45 screenshots in the kubuntu chapter (
<LaserJock> how are the Kubuntu writers doing?
<jjesse> good and how are u?
<Madpilot> hi all
<jjesse> hola madpilot
<LaserJock> well, I'll be much better when Dapper is released
<robotgeek> jjesse: did you take screenshots?
<robotgeek> hey Madpilot 
<jjesse> robotgeek: not yet, just have the reference markers
<robotgeek> LaserJock: busy little elves :)
<Madpilot> hi robotgeek 
<robotgeek> jjesse: hmm, okay
<jjesse> robotgeek: yeah still re working portions of things
<robotgeek> jjesse: i think it might be good to move the getting help appendix as a part of the first chapter
<robotgeek> that way, i can also talk a little about accessing KDE help
<jjesse> in the desktopguide ?
<robotgeek> jjesse: yes
<robotgeek> jjesse: kde is documented pretty well, and people should know i think
<jjesse> robotgeek: sounds like a great idea to me, don't recall of the top of my head but do you mention that the help docs are avilable from konq's main page?
<jjesse> robotgeek: yeah kde is VERY well documentated
<robotgeek> jjesse: nope. nothing about that help
<jjesse> might be nice to mention
<robotgeek> jjesse: okay then, i'll move the appendix to the chapter 1 :)
<jjesse> robotgeek: sounds like a plan, btw why do i still see a robotgeek_zzz on the screen, messes up tab completion for me :(
<frank__> robotgeek: if I have more random suggestions, should I post them on the mailing list as well?
<robotgeek> jjesse: are you sure, i don't see him :)
<robotgeek> frank__: sure, that would be great!
<jjesse> frank__: post away and then soon you will making patches and committing them :)
<Madpilot> yay, Misc. Tips in UDG is dead, dead, dead :P
<frank__> jjesse: yeah. if I start nitpicking, it would be easier if I just make changed myself ;)
<robotgeek> Madpilot: looks like i'll have to mirror, nice changes
<frank__> jjesse: how does it work? I submit a patch and someone reviews and integrates it? Or it just goes in?
<jjesse> frank__: to start off you submit a patch to the mailing list, person in charge of doc reviews it
<jjesse> frank__: then it is commited
<jjesse> frank__: after a while and you are ubuntu member, you get granted subversion commit access
<jjesse> assumming the patches are good and don't require a lot of re working
<frank__> jjesse: ok
<frank__> jjesse: is there a documentation freeze deadline? or can there be changes right up till release?
<jjesse> there is a doc freeeze end of week if i recall correctly
<frank__> jjesse: end of which week?
<jjesse> this week
<robotgeek> frank__: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/639180
<frank__> jjesse: really? why so soon?
<robotgeek> april 6th
<robotgeek> frank__: translations
<jjesse> frank__: upload the docs into rosetta
<Madpilot> robotgeek, sometime before our freeze I need to go thru KDG and borrow changes you've made, too
<jjesse> see wiki.ubuntu.com/'DapperReleaseSchedule
<Madpilot> anyway, will be back later - afk for now
<frank__> robotgeek: translation, right. Didn't think of those
<robotgeek> later
* robotgeek loves pastebin diff's
<robotgeek> jjesse: have you tried basket in kde. just love that app :)
<jjesse> no i haven't
<robotgeek> very nice to store away things 
<robotgeek> things are looking good with kerry and others. 
<jjesse> yeah and i also like the new adept (add/remove programs)
<robotgeek> now, only if my cellphone would sync in multisynK , i would be golden
<robotgeek> it's nice, i still like to get my hands dirty with apt-get
<frank__> robotgeek: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/639193
<frank__> robotgeek: step 1 and 2 are the same. you can get rid of step 1 I think
<frank__> what happens if something changes in dapper and a small part of the documentation becomes obsolete before the release?
<jjesse> we make an exception
<frank__> can I make reviews of some sections? http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/status/kdg-report.html  how?
<jjesse> read the sections that are flagged for review and note any changes that need to be made, either make the changes and create a patch or just send what needs to be changed to the maling list
<frank__> jjesse: ok
<robotgeek> frank__: patches are very welcome though :)
<robotgeek> frank__: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/639193
<frank__> robotgeek: defaults instead of default.  It looks good otherwise
<robotgeek> frank__: cool, if the section above it also doable in a gui way?
<frank__> robotgeek: you mean the Mount/unmount Windows partitions  (not on bootup)?
<robotgeek> frank__: yes. 
<robotgeek> i must sound dumb, but that module doesn't load for me (for some strange reason)
<frank__> robotgeek: yeah it explains the dumbness factor ;)
* robotgeek is documenting blind!
<frank__> robotgeek: are the mount points only created at installation? what happens if you connect a usb hard drive with a windows partition for example? I don't know if you have to create the fstab line (with the gui) or if something is done automatically?
<robotgeek> frank__: usb hdd are mounted automagically, i think they might show up in the System Settings
<frank__> the guide explains how to create the mount point and then mount manually without editing fstab. I don't think you can do that with the gui. You always have to edit fstab (create a new entry in the list)
<robotgeek> frank__: hmm, okay. 
<robotgeek> frank__: so, leave it as it is right?
<frank__> robotgeek: well it's not pretty either as it is. 
<robotgeek> frank__: a patch would be welcome, and a good introduction to docbook too :)
<frank__> robotgeek: I'm reading about docbook now
<robotgeek> frank__: cool, i'll head off and do other desktop guide stuff  which i need to finish
<frank__> ok
<frank__> robotgeek: hmm making patches seems pretty easy. svn takes take of pretty much everything. I never used it (or cvs) for that matter
<LaserJock> svn is really sweet
<crimsun> except for the whole reserved port, like cvs. That sucks.
<LaserJock> bzr has been fun, but I haven't quite gotten used to it
<robotgeek> hmm, i see  a new app and more work. Kubuntu also has a Add-remove Application program now
<frank__> can I add sections in a patch? If I add one, should the status be review?
<robotgeek> frank__: sure.
<frank__> what? you can only attach a file to an email in hotmail with IE. Time to finally dump that address! 
<frank__> it was a good spam bucket though :(
<robotgeek> frank__: lol
<frank__> robotgeek: I made a patch and I can't send it. lol
<robotgeek> frank__: get gmail :)
<frank__> robotgeek: I already have one but I would need to make another that has a more anonymous name.
<robotgeek> frank__: okay, i use my real name :)
<frank__> Yeah. the less google hits with my real name the better ;)
<frank__> robotgeek: can I send you the patch directly? Or I can just send it to the list tomorrow.
<robotgeek> frank__: okay, send it to me
<robotgeek> frank23: can you email it to me, dcc is a nono :)
<robotgeek> venkatvc at ubuntu.com
<frank23> ok
* robotgeek is on a shell account for irc :)
<highvoltage> robotgeek: which client are you using?
<robotgeek> highvoltage: irssi
<highvoltage> nice.
<highvoltage> don't let old people bully you into using ircII or bitchx
<highvoltage> :)
<robotgeek> highvoltage: never. 
<robotgeek> i am too used to irssi to switch. plus, screen makes it so easy
<highvoltage> yep
* highvoltage uses screen + irssi too
<highvoltage> i would use xchat, if it would also run in screen. pitty you can't have X apps running in screen (or something similar) :/
<robotgeek> frank23: recvd, thanks
<robotgeek> highvoltage: too bad, that would be great!
<frank23> robotgeek: it's my first patch. can you see if it makes sense, that I did it correctly
<robotgeek> frank23: looks very nice, next time svn diff in ubuntu-doc directly
<frank23> robotgeek: ok. and how do I make separate patches when I edit another file for example?
<robotgeek> frank23: svn diff /path/to/file.xml > file.xml.patch
<frank23> robotgeek: like   frank@dappertest:~/kdg/ubuntu-doc$ svn diff kubuntu/desktopguide/C/add-applications.xml > add-applications.xml.patch  ?
<robotgeek> frank23: yup
<frank23> robotgeek: ok great! I'm sure I'll come up with more. but for tonight, good nite
<robotgeek> frank23: great. i have a nice bash alias for patches to multiple files, i don't use it anymore as i can commit :)
<robotgeek> frank23: commited, thanks
<mdke_> morning
<robotgeek> morning mdke_ 
<mdke_> yeah, that bug about users not being able to access mounted windows partitions is fixed now
<mdke_> robotgeek, what changes did you make to the guide?
<robotgeek> mdke_: well, kubuntu now has an "add/remove programs" program
<mdke_> oh cool. I mean what changes to the partition bit?
<Burgundavia> mdke_: did we ever have a consensus on KDE stuff on the Ubuntu wiki?
<robotgeek> mdke_: i havent understood that, so i did not touch it
<mdke_> robotgeek, good :) The problem should be fixed, as trappist pointed out, so really it shouldn't be necessary for users to mount their own partitions
<mdke_> Burgundavia, i don't know. What's the issue?
<Burgundavia> mdke_: addition of ktorrent to the bittorrent page
<mdke_> if the bittorrent page is generic, sounds fine. The wiki is the Kubuntu wiki too, after all
<Burgundavia> mdke_: not really, it talks about where to launch bittorrent from, in the menus
<mdke_> i dunno... i would say, either make it a generic page, or have a page for each?
<Burgundavia> making it generic is serious regression, from my perspective
<Burgundavia> if you have this, do that, else do that
<Burgundavia> "umm, can I just run windows?"
<Burgundavia> personally, I would yank it, until have a better solution
<mdke_> well, bear in mind that the wiki is the kubuntu wiki too. I think removing kubuntu stuff would be bad, in general
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: https://w.u.c/BitTorrent , is this  what we are discussing?
<Burgundavia> robotgeek: check
<Burgundavia> mdke_: then I think we need to discuss a general policy and implement it wiki wide
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: why is adding kotorrent an issue again?
<Burgundavia> robotgeek: it is a kde specific application
<robotgeek> yeah, but why is that a problem? maybe a subpage?
<Burgundavia> well, there are two issues here:
<Burgundavia> 1 - bittorrent page specific - ktorrent says nothing about why ktorrent is a better solution to any of the others there
<Burgundavia> 2 - a policy regarding kubuntu and ubuntu sharing the ubuntu wiki
<robotgeek> it is a better solution for kde users
<Burgundavia> thus the 1st issue really isn;'t about KDE, but the 2nd issue is
<robotgeek> second issue..kinda tough to tackle
<Burgundavia> indeed
<mdke_> looking at the page, I really don't see the problem
<mdke_> ktorrent appears in a "other clients" section
<Burgundavia> and what about the 2nd issue?
<Burgundavia> is there a kubuntu wiki?
<robotgeek> no, it redirectly to ubuntu wiki
<robotgeek> redirects 
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> just like the edubuntu one does
<Burgundavia> great...
<robotgeek> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/BitTorrent is better looking, imo
<mdke_> heh
<Burgundavia> wiki.edubuntu.org/BitTorrent is also better looking
<Burgundavia> ubuntu has some great colours in its palettte, it is just sometimes we don't use them very well
* mdke_ nods
<mdke> thanks for doing that patch, Madpilot 
<Madpilot> mdke, no problem
<robotgeek> i'll put my thinking cap for that issue after the freeze :)
<Burgundavia> ya, wiki issues can be fixed at any time
* Madpilot is starting to make a list of things we need to address as a team "After The Freeze"... :P
<Burgundavia> getting long is it?
<mdke> naaaahhhh
<Burgundavia> we don't have anything to do
<Madpilot> mostly, it's all the objections/issues that have been raised in the last two weeks that we won't get to in the 3 days until freeze
<mdke> today I might do a multimedia review and see if the desktop guide works properly
<mdke> I removed everything on my dapper system that wasn't in ubuntu-desktop
<robotgeek> how easy is to revert after i commit? :)
<mdke> robotgeek, very, if you do it soon afterwards
<Burgundavia> mdke: I realized why i can't test the dvd instructions. I have a region 2 dvd player with region 1 dvds :(
<Burgundavia> frakking MPAA
<mdke> heh
<Burgundavia> I am going to call up 
<Burgundavia> Toshiba and get them to tell me how to change the region
<mdke> Burgundavia, that might be a use case we should deal with in the guide
<Madpilot> "Buy a new laptop" :P
<robotgeek> regionset
<mdke> there's a program called regionset
<Burgundavia> ah
<mdke> you can change region 4 times, according to RestrictedFormats
<Burgundavia> 25, actually
<Burgundavia> but after each 5 you need to go to a store and get them to reset the counter
<mdke> apparently the software says 4
<mdke> no idea if its true or not
<Burgundavia> regionset says 4 and 4
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: I accidentally took your U2:Boy cd home on Sunday
<Burgundavia> just pulled it out of my cd drive
<mdke> "accidentally" :)
<Madpilot> np, it's ripped to .ogg - just don't loose the CD
<Burgundavia> mdke: I already have a burned copy of it
<Burgundavia> that I got previously
* mdke rings the police
<mdke> :/
<robotgeek> lol
<mdke> we might need a vote on this yelp patch for the table of contents
<Madpilot> scared him off!
<Madpilot> The one we've been debating on the ML?
<mdke> yes
<mdke> whether to have a separate title for the second section or not
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, got rid of the cops already? ;)
<Burgundavia> ok, gxine plus the information in the desktop guide
<Burgundavia> no, dvd froze my system hard
<Burgundavia> however, totem-xine still bitches
<mdke> odd.
<mdke> anyway, xine is a nicer player for dvds
<robotgeek> damn, i wanted to show you guys, webserver is down
<Burgundavia> hmm, fullscreen doesn't like me
<mdke> our webserver?
<Burgundavia> and colour is seriously wierd
* mdke disappears to work
<Burgundavia> hmm, it appears that gxine is not displaying blue
* robotgeek goes to bed
<robitaille> Burgundavia:  gxine default colour are weird here as well...I had to play with some of the colour options to  get a normal default...
<Burgundavia> robitaille: ok, that makes it not truly suitable for the guide
<Burgundavia> unless of course, we can bully a MOTU to look at it for us...
<robitaille> but beside that, I like gxine...it's the player that seems to play the most of the media files I have here.
<Burgundavia> to bad totem still has issues
<Burgundavia> robitaille: is there a bug on gxine already filed?
<Burgundavia> robitaille: it seems to have fixed itself, dammit
<robitaille> Burgundavia:  it must be a different kind of bug;  it is just that often it seems the colours are a bit off by default in gxine...personaly opinion.
<Burgundavia> robitaille: this was seriously off, like no blue
<robitaille> must be something else; I think I would have noticed totally missing blue :)
<mdke> robotgeek, what's this "major" business? anything cool?
<mdke> ah, interesting
<mdke> Madpilot, we should take a look at these structure changes robotgeek has done for kubuntu. He's moved getting help to chapter 1, and made "Linux Basics" its own chapter
<Madpilot> mdke, was just looking at KDG, actually
<mdke> personally, I don't think I like that change, but that's just an immediate reaction
<Madpilot> I like "Getting Help" in the first chapter, though
<mdke> I'm not so sure. I think Getting Help is what people do when they can't find the answer in the guide
<Madpilot> there should be an intro blurb in that chapter about "read this guide first, and then..."
<mdke> otherwise, we should have it on the yelp frontpage, as suggested by someone on the list. But I actually think getting help works well at the end of guides
<mdke> hmm, yeah maybe an introduction of what is in the guide, including "getting help"
<Madpilot> how about an actual "About This Guide" chapter in "About this guide"?
<Madpilot> not just the conventions & a blurb about the DocTeam's wonderfulness?
<mdke> yes, it makes sense. We'd have to abandon the common preface.xml though
<rob> are there any plans to get any of the guides published in any way?
<mdke> rob, on the website, in html and pdf, and in the distro, same formats
<rob> what about in print?
<mdke> no, no plans of printing them ourselves
<Madpilot> about half of the docteam is busy writing books, it seems :P
<Madpilot> Ubuntu books, that is
<rob> Madpilot, yeah.. 
<rob> take a look at: http://www.lulu.com/about/whatislulu.php
<rob> it needn't cost the docteam/Ubuntu anything
<mdke> that looks quite cool
<Madpilot> mdke, what about adding an introductory blurb to the very head of the UDG?
<Madpilot> that would keep the common preface unbroken
<rob> its very cool, and if you choose to wave any royalty they will wave their fees (only cost is the production cost which the buyer pays)
<rob> they also allow you to dictate the licensing
<mdke> Madpilot, yes, was just thinking of how that might be done
<rob> the CC and gfdl are both ok
<rob> the cost of a 100 page book can be as low as $6-ish US
<Madpilot> mdke, can we put regular text in desktopguide.xml itself?
<mdke> Madpilot, we need to find the right tag to put it in.
<mdke> i'll dig around
<mdke> rob, that is a pretty cool idea
<rob> I'd buy one!
* mdke turns to sagehill
<mdke> Madpilot, i would think we're likely to have to dedicate a separate chapter to it
<mdke> chapter 1. Introduction
<Madpilot> mdke, makes sense - easier than either breaking the preface or hacking desktopguide.xml itself
<mdke> it does fit best in the preface though...
<mdke> mm
<mdke> i dunno, I think that if we believe it should go in the preface, we shouldn't worry about the technical side. Not sure
<mdke> rob, I'm pretty tempted by this lulu thing. We could use the pdfs we already have
<rob> yep
<mdke> someone would need to think about a cover
<rob> we have an art team :)
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> we might want canonical to deal with lulu rather than us, dunno
<rob> I'm sure they would be wrapped to be allowed to design the cover of the book
<rob> I think we should ask, maybe at a CC meeting?
<rob> or just contact canonical direct?
<Burgundavia> rob: you know there is already a canonical-blessed book in production?
<Burgundavia> it is going to be released under our licenses once published
<rob> Burgundavia, sure, doesn't mean there can't also be this
<Burgundavia> tbh, the desktop guide is not worth purchasing as a standalone book
<rob> thats a matter of opinion
<rob> it would be quite cheap and all that most users need
<Burgundavia> it is not useful to read without the machine in front of you
<rob> I can't think of anything better then to have a written guide with you when using a computer
<mdke> heh, Burgundavia is getting protective :)
<rob> esp for new/beginner users
<Burgundavia> mdke: no, I am being honest
<rob> Burgundavia, not scared of a little competition are you?
<Burgundavia> even without hte official book coming out and my part in it, I couldn't honestly recommend teh desktop guide
<mdke> Burgundavia, ok, but it's an opinion. Someone might easily say the same about the "official book"
<Burgundavia> not to smash the work that has gone into it, but it is not a book
<Burgundavia> the desktop does not talk about how to use anything
<Burgundavia> merely that it exists
<rob> so you are saying the docteam's work is substandard to your own?
<Burgundavia> I am being paid to work on teh book
<mdke> let's discuss this lulu idea on the list, and then approach jane or something if we agree its a good idea
<Burgundavia> were I being paid to work on official docs, they would be just as good
<Burgundavia>  /bad, your pick
<mdke> heh, no offense, but being paid doesn't make it good
<mdke> mako's chapters are good because he is an awesome writer, not because he's being paid
<Burgundavia> no, but it does guarentee at least a few hours that have been used to work on it
<Burgundavia> I think lulu would be a great choice for dapper+1
<Burgundavia> we can merge the desktop guide and the official book and really  have something we would be proud to put our name on
<Burgundavia> anyway, it is 2am here and I have to be at work at 8am
<rob> night
<Burgundavia> night all
<mdke> anyway, the good thing about lulu is that if people don't like the guide, they don't have to buy it, and no cost is expended in production 
<mdke> night Burgundavia 
<rob> mdke, thats exactly right
<mdke> personally, although I'm biased, I'm not convinced the desktop guide has less value than the official book
<mdke> its significantly more accessible for people who aren't native english speakers
<mdke> and we will have translations
<rob> its to the point and has had a fair bit of time spent on it now
<rob> translations!
<mdke> the structure is good too
<rob> it fits the style of a 'book' better then the Breezy one did
<mdke> Madpilot, i think we should have it in the preface, on reflection. you?
<Madpilot> mdke, yeah, if putting it there doesn't cause massive coding/tech headaches 
<mdke> no, we just take preface.xml and make our own
<Madpilot> that works :P
<Madpilot> sleep - later, all
<robotgeek> reads scrollback
<robotgeek> hey jjesse 
<jjesse> hiya robotgeek
<robotgeek> jjesse: did you see the changes i made?
<jjesse> robotgeek: haven't yet.. unfortnatly today i'm working in windows mode right mode :)
<robotgeek> jjesse: http://www.robotgeek.org/kubuntu/
<jjesse> i like them
<robotgeek> jjesse: cool, i'll do some ore reorg and get rid of the misc tips section
<mdke> robotgeek, see our reasons for not making the same changes in the scrollback
<mdke> but I've added an introduction section
<jjesse> if doc freeze is on friday does that mean i have until friday at 11:59pm UTC to comitt changes? or until that day is over in my time zone :)
* robotgeek picks time zone
<robotgeek> mdke: let me look deeper, i just woke up :)
<robotgeek> we need an irc client that tracks conversations
<mdke> jjesse, it's thursday. and freezes mean that it gets frozen at 00:01 UTC on that day. But we are unlikely to be so strict
<robotgeek> mdke: i saw the change to preface.xml, nicely done. 
<robotgeek> however, i a m also going to add a small blurb about help in KDE, which will make that move to the front seem better
<mdke> ok, i still think that getting more help is best at the end of a document, but it's hardly a big deal
<robotgeek> it's not like people are going to readit :)
<robotgeek> which reminds me, i need to bug tonio
<frank23> should the svn version always build? add-applications.xml doesn't build right now
<robotgeek> frank23: what issue are you facing?
<mdke> yes, it should
<mdke> if we're doing our job properly
<mdke> :)
<frank23> I can fix it myself but there is an extra        <<<<<<< .mine   line that i get errors about
<frank23> add-applications.xml:141: parser error
<robotgeek> frank23: okay, basically that's becuase i made a few changes to add-applications.xml and committed them. 
<robotgeek> that's the .mine file.
<robotgeek> frank23: now you have a conflict, which you have to fix manually
<frank23> robotgeek: well removing a few line fixes it. If I delete my add-applications.xml.mine file, it would stop complaining?
<robotgeek> frank23: i think you will lose your changes
<frank23> robotgeek: did you commit my changes?
<robotgeek> frank23: yes, i did. (the one you emailed me last night)
<frank23> robotgeek: when I do a svn up,   is the add-applications.xml I get the one in svn or some combination of that one and my .mine
<robotgeek> frank23: if you did not make any changes after yesterday, it is safe to delete the .mine file. and yes, after svn up, the file in your directory is in sync with the respository
<frank23> robotgeek: ok. There are things about svn I don't understand. my mistake
<robotgeek> frank23: no problem, take your time. everyone goes thru it
<mdke> omg, i love the yelp developers
<mdke> http://www.donscorgie.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Yelp-with-desc.png
<mdke> mpt_, ^
<Burgwork> ok, our logout dialog went from crack to pure crack
<robotgeek> lol
<mdke> agreed
<robotgeek> screenie?
<mdke> http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/dev/hibernate.png
<robotgeek> too many buttons
<Burgwork> yep
<mdke> the labels are the new thing
* Burgwork predicts we will switch to upstreams dialog for dapper+1
<ompaul> I actually think that is cute - and my sister (a strict non geek) 
<ompaul> was ohh that looks easy
<ompaul> one of these years she will ask me to convert her machine :-) in the mean time I don't support their windows I bring ubuntu to their house on a little lappy :)
<robotgeek> jjesse: howz work on handhelds coming up?
<jjesse> robotgeek: slow but working on it
<robotgeek> jjesse: cool
<jjesse> btw will be forwarding an email to you on someone intersted in joining
<robotgeek> great!
<Burgwork> jjesse, handhelds?
<robotgeek> Burgwork: palms etc
<Burgwork> robotgeek, very cool. Ubuntu on them?
<robotgeek> Burgwork: using palms with kubuntu, i guess
<jjesse> connecting your palm to kubuntu
<jjesse> not running kubuntu on palms :)
<jjesse> though i wise
<jjesse> wish
<jjesse> robotgeek: what's your email again reall quick venkat@?
<robotgeek> venkatvc at  ubuntu.com
<mdke> trappist, jjesse, commit access working?
<jjesse> haven't had a chance to test
<LaserJock> jjesse: better get going ;-)
<mdke> jjesse, well, did you receive the password?
<trappist> mdke: got mine.  gotta test it.
<jjesse> mdke: yes i did, i received the email, need to remember my password for the key and have been swamped at work
<mdke> cool
<trappist> works
<trappist> wish I could use something like an ssh key, though.  that password is a buttkicker.
<mdke> trappist, svn saves it, you only enter it once
<trappist> oh awesome.
<trappist> I've always used svn+ssh
<trappist> got that taken care of from my work box and my home box then, by adding and removing a file
<LaserJock> how easy is it to take wiki pages from one wiki and put them in another?
<mpt__> mdke, sweet
* mpt__ catches up on scrollback
<mpt__> hehe, "Let the computer hibernate"? Do I really have to?
#ubuntu-doc 2007-04-02
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha feisty * r4022 /edubuntu/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * update changelog to 0.6-1
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * install images
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * take out Build-Depends-Indep as we aren't building anything
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * updated image links to the right path
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * updated Student Control Panel to Thin Client Manager
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r4023 edubuntu/ (7 files in 3 dirs): * sync from Feisty branch r4022
<nixternal> go LaserJock go!
<LaserJock> wahoo ;-)
<nixternal> yes, I wrote 2 more handbooks for KDE today ;)
<nixternal> <revision>1.00</revision> :)
<LaserJock> cool
<nixternal> and my code for the "new" khelpcenter of course broke it ;p
<LaserJock> I can't figure out where these update*.png files are from
<LaserJock> well, I mean, I don't have them
<LaserJock> and I don't know where the references came from
<nixternal> there is no telling. I can't believe they would wipe the old svn server before checking though
<nixternal> truthfully..
<nixternal> YOU KNOW WHAT!!!
<nixternal> those images are from the old Cookbook that got nuked I bet
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> that's really really old though for screenshots
<nixternal> ya, they didn't create the handbook from scratch, they copied in all of the old cookbook stuff
<nixternal> I went through about 90% of it updating it, that I do remember
<nixternal> and removing :) and :( from every other paragraph
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> well, I see a lot of ''' for bolds
<nixternal> ya, the handbook never stood a chance 6 months to a year ago for sure
<nixternal> that is the cookbook pull in from the wiki
<nixternal> I thought I got all of those
<LaserJock> you know, I sort of wonder if we had so many copies of this stuff running around that maybe some of your stuff got reverted :(
<nixternal> very well could have been, but here is the thing, it would have been me reverting it unless someone else had svn access to our server
<LaserJock> i.e. me
<LaserJock> I uploaded some stuff from sbalneav
<LaserJock> I wonder if it was based on older stuff
<LaserJock> I *thought* it was from the doc team svn
<nixternal> well, sbalneav's stuff would have been all LTSP I would think
<nixternal> I didn't touch any of the LTSP stuff except to clean it up so that it would at least validate
<LaserJock> ok, that's where the problems I'm seeing are from
<nixternal> heh, he must have been working from a wiki then
<LaserJock> I think maybe he just hasn't gotten to that section
<LaserJock> it's the last in the LTSP chapter
<LaserJock> anyway, I sooo don't have time for it all :-)
<nixternal> very well could have been
<LaserJock> I think I'll get some new stuff from sbalneav
<LaserJock> cbx33 is doing TCM screenshots
<LaserJock> and ogra is proofreading
<nixternal> there was a lot of bad original docs to begin with, that is why I never really pressed for SVN accounts
<mdke> morning
<ubotu> New bug: #100090 in xubuntu-docs (main) "No link to xubuntu-docs, bout Xfce box refers to Xfce docs." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/100090
<ubotu> New bug: #101864 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Wrong reference in windows document" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/101864
<ubotu> New bug: #101894 in xubuntu-docs (main) "Spelling error in 1 st line of "New to Linux"" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/101894
<ubotu> New bug: #101930 in ubuntu-doc "Shared Folders is not documented" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/101930
<nixternal> stop with the New bugs already you stinkin' bot!
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> we just need it to automatically close all new bugs ;-)
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> dude, look at the bugs chan
<nixternal> he is constantly spitting out new bugs
<nixternal> sumpin' tells me they are either working on the bot, or the bot is broke
<nixternal> hrmm
<LaserJock> Seveas said a little while ago that he broke it
<nixternal> I need to figure out how to setup a custom highlight for ubugtu so I can see his messages over everyone elses
<nixternal> heh, go figure, he is constantly breakin' his puppets
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4024 /ubuntu/ (19 files in 18 dirs): tweaks to translate script, trying to get it to work; unnecessary pot rebuild.
* mdke high gives the bot
<mdke> and now the high five
<nixternal> hiya mdke! getting the bot high isn't recommended ;)
<mdke> nixternal: hiya
<mdke> translations this cycle are going to be a challenge
<nixternal> so it seems
<nixternal> they started late for one, and it seems they aren't being translated as quickly
<nixternal> I think that if/when the community switches to the repo setup for development purposes, or the one source thing, that it might make it easier
<mdke> well, the translations are going pretty fast actually
<nixternal> it seems that KDE and GNOME have no problems with it, and their process seems larger than ours when it comes to translations
<mdke> I mean, importing them will be a challenge
<nixternal> ahh
<nixternal> we can't use the old scripts, or at least tweak them a bit?
<mdke> yeah, we have an improved script :)
<nixternal> woohoo
<nixternal> well that is good at least
<mdke> and I'm going to work on danilo to do one which can regenerate fixed translations for upload to launchpad so our changes are not lost
<nixternal> ahh, now that would be awesome
<mdke> the improved script will allow translators to do their own testing too, so hopefully that will help lessen the burden a bit
<nixternal> with Edgy the burden wasn't as bad as it was with Dapper, and I am hoping the trend continues
<mdke> we'll see!
<nixternal> hhe
<nixternal> err, hehe rather
<Gwaihir> mdke: I wanted to test in these days the italian translations...
<mdke> Gwaihir: I'll try and post about how to do it soon. I need to make sure things are working
<Gwaihir> great!
<mdke> bbl
<ubotu> New bug: #102059 in kubuntu-docs (main) "kubuntu-docs contains another incorrect string" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102059
<Admiral_Chicago> does someone have a link to the trunk of the docs
<Admiral_Chicago> ah wait nvm
<Admiral_Chicago> found it...topics are good.
<mdke> wait for it...
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4025 /ubuntu/ (902 files in 17 dirs): adding initial po files download, for testing
<mdke> phew, that's a lot of dots
#ubuntu-doc 2007-04-03
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha feisty * r4026 /edubuntu/ (9 files in 2 dirs):
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: *updates from Scott Balneav
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: *new screenshots for upgrades
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha feisty * r4027 /edubuntu/ (5 files in 5 dirs):
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * fixed typo in Edubuntu Handbook
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * fixed typo in About Edubuntu
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * refreshed .pots
<mdke> morning all
<bhuvan> morning mdke
<mdke> hiya bhuvan
<bhuvan> hey
<mdke> do you know how to make a line in a shell script only do something if a particular file exists?
<bhuvan> let me check
<bhuvan> mdke: try this; [ -e /your/filename ]  && command_to_run_if_it_exists
<bhuvan> mdke: you can also try this from you bash prompt
<mdke> ok, I'll try that
<mdke> you sure I don't need to use "if"?
<Madpilot> && is useful - glad I discovered it so early when I started bash scripting
<Madpilot> && is if, kind of - "foo && bar" is "do foo, then do bar only if foo worked"
<mdke> but I want the rest of the script to continue for instances even where foo doesn't work, will that be ok?
<bhuvan> yes
<mdke> I can give you the example
<bhuvan> so, you can use if condition?
<mdke> it's in branches/feisty/ubuntu/translate.sh
<bhuvan> ok
<mdke> I want lines 45 and 46 to only be run if there is an omf file in the doc/C directory
<mdke> i think it probably works as it is, but it's nicer not to have the error
* bhuvan is checking
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4028 /ubuntu/about-ubuntu/ (161 files in 81 dirs): translations for about-ubuntu
<bhuvan> mdke: i've sent a patch to your email id; see if matches your req.
<mdke> great thanks
<bhuvan> np
<mdke> bhuvan: yes, I think that's the stuff
<bhuvan> mdke great
<mdke> wow, those chinese translators are rocking
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4029 /ubuntu/ (145 files in 49 dirs):
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * small change to translate.sh script (thanks to bhuvan)
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * keeping-safe translations
<mdke> nixternal: ok, the translation scripts look like they are more or less working, I've done about-ubuntu and keeping-safe on this side and all seems well. Take a look at them maybe and start trying to get them to work for kubuntu too
<mdke> nixternal: any questions, ask me - email is probably best
<ubotu> New bug: #102325 in ubuntu-doc "Packaging guide should cover changing maintainer field" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102325
<ubotu> New bug: #102344 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Missing screenshot and other (basic-commands)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102344
<bordy> mornin urrbody
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4030 /ubuntu/update-po.sh: update-po script, NOT YET WORKING DO NOT USE OMGZZ
<somerville32> lol
<mdke> you've been warned
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4031 /ubuntu/add-applications/ (147 files in 49 dirs): translations for add-applications
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4032 /ubuntu/administrative/ (100 files in 50 dirs): translations for administrative
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4033 /ubuntu/advanced-topics/ (147 files in 49 dirs): translations
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4034 /ubuntu/config-desktop/ (156 files in 52 dirs): translations
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4035 /ubuntu/translate.sh: small tweak to translate.sh
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4036 /ubuntu/desktop-effects/ (96 files in 48 dirs): translations
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4037 /ubuntu/files-and-docs/ (147 files in 49 dirs): translations
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4038 /ubuntu/programming/ (98 files in 49 dirs): translations
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4039 /ubuntu/office/ (98 files in 49 dirs): translations
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4040 /ubuntu/printing/ (144 files in 48 dirs): translations
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4041 /ubuntu/games/ (104 files in 52 dirs): translations
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4042 /ubuntu/basic-commands/ (96 files in 48 dirs): translations
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4043 /ubuntu/newtoubuntu/ (150 files in 50 dirs): translations
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4044 /ubuntu/musicvideophotos/ (144 files in 48 dirs): translations
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4045 /ubuntu/internet/ (150 files in 50 dirs): translations
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4046 /ubuntu/windows/ (245 files in 49 dirs): translations
<mdke> man we need karma for this stuff
<bimberi> mdke+++++++++++++
<bimberi> :)
#ubuntu-doc 2007-04-04
<nixternal> mdke: karma for doc commits? that would be insane :)
<LaserJock> nixternal: that would be sweet
<LaserJock> nixternal: although I think uploads should get karma first :-)
<nixternal> packaging karma as well LaserJock
<jjesse> nixternal: ping!
<nixternal> jjesse: pong
<jjesse> in the doc do you reference ripping mp3s?
<jjesse> and if so you have it for k3b and not kaudiocreator as that is no longer installed by default?
<nixternal> dunno if I do, can't remember
<nixternal> oh, you know what, I linked to the K3b docs I think
<jjesse> nixternal: sorry was in anoghter window, i'm glad you linked to the k3b docs
<nixternal> jjesse: actually I did a pretty nice write up of ripping CDs with K3b :)
<nixternal> I just not looked at the docs. I am happy with it, it is under the Multimedia section > Ripping CDs
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<Madpilot> hmm - there is no longer a link to the Lulu site on the 6.06 LTS docs homepage - https://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha feisty * r4047 /edubuntu/images/C/ (8 files): * updated SCP to TCM screenshots
<mdke> morning
<Burgundavia> morning mdke
<Burgundavia> have you seen this magazine effort?
<Burgundavia> they are going to need some guidance, shall we say
<mdke> yeah, saw it vaguely
<mdke> agree
<Madpilot> mdke, when did the Lulu store info get removed from the 6.06 doc homepage?
<mdke> Madpilot: it's very unlikely to have been removed, are you sure it was there?
<Madpilot> mdke, nothing on https://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ - it's not a long page
<mdke> right, it wasn't ever there
<mdke> it's in the individual docs though
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4048 /debian/ (changelog rules): packaging for translations, still to be tested
<Madpilot> mdke, at one point the lulu store was linked to directly from the main page, wasn't it?
<mdke> Madpilot: doesn't look like it, I checked repos/branches/dapper/website-index/C/website-index.xml
<mdke> maybe we should have done that though :)
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4049 /ubuntu/ (51 files in 51 dirs):
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * tweak to translate.sh to make it work for newtoubuntu
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * omf files for newtoubuntu
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4050 /debian/ (changelog rules): tweaks, still not working
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4051 /debian/rules: typo
<Madpilot> mdke, http://andy.brisgeek.com/archives/45
<Madpilot> ^^^ useful if we ever have to redo graphics like the 6.06 Lulu covers
<mdke> Madpilot: oh, cool
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4052 /debian/rules: ok, works now
<jono> mdke: ping
<nixternal> well well well, if it isn't mr. jono himself :)
<jono> hey dude :)
<nixternal> wasabi there homey! Hey, good job on the big red recording, you got some damn good tunes there
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4053 /kubuntu/games/ (C/games.xml games.pot): small fix - pot fix - translation fix
<mdke> I wish jono would just email me instead of pinging me all the time then leaving
<nixternal> lol
<bdmurray> nixternal: I saw you are subscribed to the grubhowto at help.ubuntu.com .  I wonder if you have any thoughts on the formatting of the page with my addition.
<nixternal> bdmurray: I subscribed to everything
<bdmurray> nixternal: that's a lot of mail I imagine.
* nixternal will look at it
<nixternal> ya, quite a bit actually. If madpilot would teach me his tab refresh trick then I wouldn't have to do it
<nixternal> argh, 2:30 almost, I gotta go to school :(
<bdmurray> thanks, I'm not happy with the formatting of the modifying boot options section
<nixternal> Philosophy and Anthropology night, I should just go to bed, I get the same effect
<nixternal> tweak it until you are happy :)
<bdmurray> seems to be truncated after the contents box
<bdmurray> nixternal: right but it seems to be autowrapping the lines
* mdke loads his contentless ping script, in case jono comes back
<mdke> mdke: ping
<mdke> damn thing is broken
<mdke> nixternal: you try
<nixternal> mdke: ping
<mdke> nixternal: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
<mdke> that's better
<nixternal> hehe
<mdke> nixternal: did you see the translations going in for ubuntu-docs?
<mdke> we'll need to implement something similar for kubuntu-docs
<nixternal> bdmurray: ya that autowrapping is a total pain, only way to get it not to autowrap would be to break it down
<nixternal> mdke: yes, I am going to wait another day or so, nobody is translating kubuntu-docs worth a squat
<mdke> oh right
<mdke> might be worth giving it a try so that you see how everything works
<nixternal> for the firefox front page, 1 translation in over a week, not to pleasing actually
<nixternal> ya, maybe I will play with it tonight after class
<mdke> where did you publicise the request?
<nixternal> translators list
<mdke> hmm. I didn't see that mail
<nixternal> ubuntu-translators@l.u.c
<mdke> ah, there it is
<mdke> shame, maybe repost for more
<mdke> gtg, back later maybe
<nixternal> have fun
* nixternal heads out as well
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha feisty * r4054 /edubuntu/ (4 files in 4 dirs): *update image links
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha feisty * r4055 /edubuntu/handbook/C/server.xml: * oops, need to take out a couple screenshots
#ubuntu-doc 2007-04-05
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha feisty * r4056 /edubuntu/ (9 files in 6 dirs):
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * new release
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation:  - discuss new addon CD
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation:  - fix up some typos
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation:  - refresh .pots
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r4057 edubuntu/ (22 files in 4 dirs): * sync to feisty branch up to r4056
<mdke> morning
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4058 /debian/ (changelog control): Daniel's latest changes
<mdke> bhuvan: hiya. We haven't updated the material in generic/server for a while, it's not up to date with generic/serverguide, I think. Would you look at that? If not, I can do it tomorrow
<mdke> hi there Burgundavia
<bhuvan> mdke, i assume you were referring to the one in trunk. i'll update it.
<mdke> bhuvan: nope, branches/feisty as well
<bhuvan> oh ok; so i'll check and update both
<mdke> great, thanks
<bhuvan> np
<Burgundavia> hey mdke
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: bhuvan feisty * r4059 /generic/server/C/package-management.xml:
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: Synchronize the server/C with serverguide/C. Only difference is the
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: C/package-management.xml file which was updated in serverguide/C in
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: r3986.
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: bhuvan * r4060 generic/ (24 files in 6 dirs):
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: Merge the changes related to generic/serverguide and generic/server
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: documents from branches/feisty branch to trunk -r3955:3986.
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: Suggested by: mdke
<ubotu> New bug: #103237 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Typos and translations problems in the French version" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103237
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4061 /kubuntu/firefox-startpage/ (kindex-fr.html kindex-sv.html): French and Swedish translations
<ubotu> New bug: #103308 in ubuntu-docs (main) "newtoubuntu documents has link to English version of user-guide rather than localised version" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103308
<j0hndeere> Hello there.
<ubotu> New bug: #103408 in kubuntu-docs (main) "typing error on kubuntu-docs printing" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103408
<nixternal> no no no!
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4062 kubuntu/printing/C/printing.xml: closes 103408
<nixternal> whew, the the, not all that deadly :)
<nixternal> I can live with that in Feisty
<j0hndeere> heh
<j0hndeere> what would qualify as deadly?
<nixternal> something I would have to fix and upload an updated translation file
<nixternal> something that was super obvious and not good, having "the" printed twice is not a big deal
<nixternal> I am glad someone is reading the docs that closely though
<j0hndeere> So are you in charge of doc editing?
<nixternal> don't say I would be in charge really, but I do tend to help with the Kubuntu side though
<Gwaihir> mdke: ping
<mdke> Gwaihir: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
<nixternal> hehe
<Gwaihir> nixternal... there's a little bug in the doc...
<nixternal> little? hopefully like little enough to wait for feisty+1
<Gwaihir> in the preparing.xml file...
<Gwaihir> well... maybe not
<Gwaihir> it's just a xreflabel too much...
<nixternal> err, xreflabel? I can't believe someone snuck one of those in, they kill translations
<Gwaihir> so the title of the section doesn't show up translated
<nixternal> hehe
<Gwaihir> yup!
<nixternal> is that in Ubuntu docs only? I take it is because I don't have a preparing in Kubuntu docs that I know of
<Gwaihir> I checked only Ubuntu's
<Gwaihir> it's in the windows directory
<nixternal> ahh, the switching doc
<Gwaihir> yes, that one
<nixternal> ya, that is definitely going to have to go through mdke
<Gwaihir> ok... if he comes in and I'm not around...
<Gwaihir> can you tell him?
<nixternal> Gwaihir: I think we already did :)
<Gwaihir> right! :)
<Gwaihir> nixternal: I found another one...
<Gwaihir> :)
<Gwaihir> always preparing.xml, section "Transferring your data safely"
<Gwaihir> and also section "Preparing email for export"
<Gwaihir> and "Exporting mail messages from Outlook"
<Gwaihir> better write in ML...
<Gwaihir> man.. preparing.xml is full of xreflabel!
#ubuntu-doc 2007-04-06
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4063 /kubuntu/firefox-startpage/kindex-de.html: German Kubuntu FF startpage
<ubotu> New bug: #103549 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Possible private comment in basic-commands in Ubuntu Feisty package "ubuntu-docs"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103549
<Susana> hi, since the importing of ubuntu-docs starts today, i would just like to point out bug 103549 where a private comment is made in a string
<ubotu> Malone bug 103549 in ubuntu-docs "Possible private comment in basic-commands in Ubuntu Feisty package "ubuntu-docs"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103549
<nixternal> hiya jjesse
<shirish> any wiki writers here?
<mdke> morning
<mdke> morning
<mdke> ouch, damn scrollback
<mdke> nixternal: damn, that's a nasty bug. Is that in kubuntu too?
<mdke> Gwaihir: I'm going to try and fix that xreflabel stuff; I *think* that it can be done without any string changes
<Gwaihir> mdke: that would be great!
<Gwaihir> mdke: what about the internal link to GNOME guide?
<mdke> Gwaihir: doing that now too, no string change
<Gwaihir> wonderful!
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4064 /ubuntu/ (20 files in 20 dirs):
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * fixing internal link in newtoubuntu to enable localisations - bug 103308
<ubotu> Malone bug 103308 in ubuntu-docs "newtoubuntu documents has link to English version of user-guide rather than localised version" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103308
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * removing embarassing aside from basic-commands - bug 103549
<ubotu> Malone bug 103549 in ubuntu-docs "Possible private comment in basic-commands in Ubuntu Feisty package "ubuntu-docs"" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103549
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * refreshing pot files
<mdke> there is a string change in basic-commands though, I'll post to -translators now
<Gwaihir> ok... i'll check launchpad...
<mdke> I didn't upload it yet
<Gwaihir> I see :)
<Gwaihir> but I'll refresh the page once in a while ;)
<mdke> ok
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4065 /ubuntu/ (18 files in 18 dirs): removing erroneous xreflabels from windows doc, no string changes
<mdke> Gwaihir: ^^
<Gwaihir> mdke:
<Gwaihir> uplaoded?
<mdke> that's our svn
<Gwaihir> ok
<mdke> I've also uploaded the basic-commands.pot to rosetta, I don't know how long it takes to import it though
<Gwaihir> how much time do we have before the freeze?
<mdke> I dunno
<mdke> it depends on when I have time to download the translations
<mdke> I'll do it tomorrow I think
<mdke> I can't really leave it until later because I'll be too busy after that
<Gwaihir> ok
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r4066 ubuntu/ (3 files in 3 dirs): updating with my changes to branches/feisty
<Gwaihir> I'm going for lunch,,, see you later!
<ubotu> New bug: #103663 in ubuntu-docs (main) "typo in basic-commands.xml" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103663
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4067 /ubuntu/about-ubuntu/about-ubuntu-C.omf: we need this back... it's broken the panel entry
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4068 /ubuntu/about-ubuntu/ (C/about-ubuntu-C.omf about-ubuntu-C.omf about-ubuntu.pot): moving omf file to the right place, refreshing pot template
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4069 /ubuntu/about-ubuntu/ (160 files in 80 dirs): refreshing translations to add omf files
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4070 /ubuntu/get-pot.sh: simplify this script
<nixternal> mdke: the personal note to self bug?
<nixternal> or the preparing.xml bug :)
<nixternal> the preparing one is nasty, but if you remember you and LaserJock told me about how evil xreflabels were, so I replaced everyone of them in Kubuntu docs
<mdke> nixternal: the former.
<nixternal> ya, I don't have either of those files, so Kubuntu is good
<nixternal> my nasty bug right now is "the the" :)
<nixternal> I am not even worried about fixing that in feisty
<mdke> no, not a biggie
<ubotu> New bug: #103769 in kubuntu-docs (main) "Bad translations" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103769
<nemphis> hi all
<nemphis> i've a little question
<osg> hi
<nemphis> under which licence are the community docs (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UserDocumentation) available?
<osg> Not sure.
<osg> I could not find anything by searching for license or related terms.
<nemphis> osg: me too
<nemphis> osg: i found something about the licence on this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/License, but i'm not sure whether it applies to the community docs also.
<osg> Looks like you found your answer.
<nemphis> osg: ok. thanks for your help.
<nemphis> good bye
<osg> np
<osg> heh
<mdke> osg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiLicensing has the answer
<LaserJock> hi mdke
<mdke> ello there LaserJock
<mdke> all well?
<LaserJock> I suppose
<LaserJock> I'm home sick
<mdke> how come?
<LaserJock> I've got a cold
<mdke> I mean, why aren't you home?
<LaserJock> I am
<mdke> ah
<mdke> "I'm home, sick" as opposed to "I'm homesick"
<LaserJock> I'm at home, sick
<mdke> doh
<LaserJock> sorry
<mdke> my bad :)
<mdke> get better soon
<LaserJock> I think I managed to get edubuntu-docs in decent shape with sbalneav's help
<mdke> right
<mdke> by the way, I just got your email to the list about that today...
<mdke> it was dated quite a bit earlier, must be some list issues still
<LaserJock> yeah
<mdke> I'll request an account for him
<LaserJock> I just got it too
<LaserJock> I think it was part of the lists.ubuntu.com problems lately
<LaserJock> that would be greatly appreciated
<LaserJock> I even managed to get some .pots up
<mdke> cool
<LaserJock> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/edubuntu-docs/+pots/
<mdke> nice job
<LaserJock> obviously not a lot of time for translation
<LaserJock> but the system's all there
<mdke> plenty of time for updates
<mdke> and next release will be super :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> your yelp patch works wonderfully :-)
<mdke> good
<LaserJock> that's a big help
<mdke> I've broken the about-ubuntu panel entry with the last ubuntu-docs upload ;)
<mdke> seems that it needs the omf file to work
<LaserJock> uh oh :-)
<mdke> simple fix, fortunately
<LaserJock> man, I've realized a lot with edubuntu-docs how difficult all this stuff is
<LaserJock> translations, yelp frontpage, etc.
<mdke> naahhh
<mdke> I would have thought the rest of Ubuntu is a lot harder!
<LaserJock> I guess it depends
<mdke> what's edubuntu-about.desktop?
<LaserJock> I'll still think packaging "normal" stuff is easier
<LaserJock> that's the About Edubuntu menu entry
<LaserJock> it sits next to the About Ubuntu one
<mdke> that doesn't get done in gnome-panel?
<LaserJock> nope
<mdke> how is the Ubuntu one translated?
<LaserJock> it's included in the gnome-panel translation
<LaserJock> the problem is that if it was in gnome-panel then it'd show up on Ubuntu user's machines too
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> oh, right
<mdke> good job with that :)
<LaserJock> and since it's part of Edubuntu docs I figured we should just do it
<LaserJock> sooo, I had to figure out how to do it
<LaserJock> so I got seb128 to add in a patch to gnome-panel to show it if edubuntu-docs was installed
<mdke> although, the about-ubuntu entry only shows up if ubuntu-docs is installed, so it probably wouldn't be a problem to have it in gnome-panel too
<LaserJock> and then manually made a pot for it
<LaserJock> mdke: true, I just figured it made more sense to keep it in edubuntu-docs
* mdke nods
<LaserJock> I don't like having stuff scattered around
<LaserJock> it's more difficult for people to find
<mdke> probably more sensible than the way about-ubuntu is done
<mdke> it can't take the string from an existing one, like the omf file?
<mdke> to save you having a separate pot template
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> there are only 2 strings in it
<LaserJock> 1 is a dup, since it's just "About Edubuntu"
<LaserJock> but the other one is probably not
<LaserJock> but yeah, I hadn't thought of grabing the string from somewhere else
<LaserJock> although ...
<LaserJock> the cool think about the .desktop is I don't have to bring the translations back in
<LaserJock> the translations will go into the lang packs
<mdke> ah, nice yeah
<mdke> but then again, you have to do it for the omf file anyway ;)
<LaserJock> so I just install the English file
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> this translation stuff is still very new to me
<LaserJock> I wish I was even the slightest bit bilingual
<mdke> I'm not sure that's possible
<mdke> :p
<LaserJock> I gotta try to get some Spanish in before UDS ;-)
<nixternal> uno mas por favor
<LaserJock> hehe, I know that one
<nixternal> ya, Mexico is my second home, and I took Spanish in highschool and grew up around latinos, so I can understand it and speak a lil bit
<mdke> nixternal from the block
<nixternal> haha yes
<nixternal> in my ghetto, or hood
<LaserJock> well, I didn't grow up with a lot of "diversity" in the backwoods of Montana
<j0hndeere> yo quiero tacos
<nixternal> oh no you didn't
<j0hndeere> ...that's about all the Espanol I know.
<LaserJock> but here in Nevada there's a lot of Spanish speakers
<nixternal> man, I have a talk to give at UIC tomorrow, and then I somehow got involved in the battle of the distros
<LaserJock> sweet
<nixternal> my botd though, my starting line will own um all
<LaserJock> Ubuntu vs * ?
<nixternal> Fedora, SUSE, Gentoo, Linspire, Slackware...
<nixternal> Fedora and them will hit the "Ubuntu isn't FREE"
<nixternal> so because of that, I have the "who in here has a ton of mp3's? uses and loves Google?"
<nixternal> you know all of those who use the Ubuntu is not FREE will raise their hands
<nixternal> as soon as they do, they are toast, it works every time
<j0hndeere> the linux distros need to call off their own bickering if they wish to not be crushed by microsoft, IMO
<LaserJock> Ubuntu's as Free as you want it to be
<LaserJock> that's the coolest part
<nixternal> this time though I have to start out with "my apologies for this one Chris" as DiBona will be there watchin'
<nixternal> there will be no crushing by Microsoft. What Linux distros need to do is continue the bickering, but get rid of the mindset that Linux will not be mainstream
<LaserJock> I'd think Suse would be the only big competition
<nixternal> the bickering leads to improvements. you want to see bickering, work with Microsoft for a week
<LaserJock> Fedora just doesn't work very well
<nixternal> well, Fedora 7 is nice
<LaserJock> Gentoo takes too much time
<LaserJock> Slackware is a throw-back
<LaserJock> and Linspire ...
<nixternal> hey now, Slackware will always be my favorite I think
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> ya, I am going to do "and Linspire..." and just start laughing hard
<nixternal> I doubt anyone will be batteling for Linspire, but what I may do is say "Linspire, it is OK, let papa Ubuntu take you under our wing"
<LaserJock> I've never tried Slackware, and probably never will
<nixternal> ya, it takes some work
<nixternal> but making a tgz is a heck of a lot easier than making .deb
<LaserJock> yeah, but that's why people like me exist
<nixternal> see, another thing people tend to forget about with Ubuntu, is we fulfill 4 niches
<nixternal> no other distro does that
<LaserJock> to make the .debs for people
<nixternal> good, you can start making my .debs :)
<nixternal> we fulfill 4 niches ootb with 3 DEs
<LaserJock> I said for "people" not Chitown distro mobsters ;-)
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> tomorrow is going to be classic, we have a couple of hundred people meeting up at the 2600 hacking location, then walking over gangster style
<nixternal> Ubuntu representation right now at the event, is easily 50 to 1
<LaserJock> "Ya gonna use Ubuntu, or I'll hav Tony here wack ya"
<nixternal> my eyes in the sky are like this is an Ubuntu event, nobody cares about anything else
<nixternal> it is whack btw ;p
<nixternal> someone corrected me not even 2 hours ago
<LaserJock> well, I was going to say "ice ya" that would have been better
<nixternal> hahah
<nixternal> the only thing I have yet to figure out, is with my laptop, native is 1280x800
<nixternal> when I do presentations, the output is the same, and a majority of projectors don't display the entire screen
<nixternal> I have tried to setup both Ubuntu and Kubuntu to display on the 2nd monitor at 1024x768 and it just will not do it
<LaserJock> so can you switch your laptop to 1024x768?
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> I could do that and live with the ugliness I guess
<nixternal> I will have to try that now
* nixternal plugs into the 15" lcd
<bdmurray> nixternal: you might ask kees he has a wide screen laptop and uses a projector with it
<LaserJock> yikes, bdmurray is everywhere :-)
<bdmurray> only 15 places atm
#ubuntu-doc 2007-04-07
<mdke> morning
* mdke embarks on his record spamathon
<ubotu> New bug: #104039 in ubuntu-docs (main) "broken link in (Dutch) main page the link for free support" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104039
<MehdiHassanpour> hi :-)
<MehdiHassanpour> just saw the WikiLicensing page. what are the benefits of using CC-By-SA license over GnuFDL ?
<mdke> MehdiHassanpour: the reasons for the choice of license are explained on the page. GnuFDL has lots of well documented problems, maybe do a search on debian legal or something for that
<jjesse> afternoon
<Burgundavia> hey jjesse
<Burgundavia> long time, no chat
<jjesse> hiya Burgundavia how are you?
<Burgundavia> not bad
<jjesse> yeah things are a little crazy for me, i've been on the road for the last 5 weeks and have two more to go
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4071 /ubuntu/ (896 files in 18 dirs): updating translations from Rosetta
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4072 /ubuntu/ (1102 files in 825 dirs): updated translated xml
<mdke> that's a lot of files in a lot of dirs
<mdke> yay translators
<mgalvin> hey guys
<mgalvin> any chance someone could me a hand real quick and update me feed on planet?
<mdke> mgalvin: you can do that no?
<mgalvin> mdke: i can't seem to find my svn password :-/
<mdke> mgalvin: ??
<mdke> planet isn't related to our svn
<mgalvin> so i don't think i can do it myself... um... i thought i heard that some where...
<mgalvin> how can i change it?
<mgalvin> do you know?
<mdke> yeah, it's described on wiki:PlanetUbuntu
<LaserJock> mdke: I noticed there wasn't a template on Rosetta for the packaging guide
<mgalvin> ah, yes, i just looked and noticed that on planet... i should have actually looked first
<mgalvin> mdke: thanks, i will follow that
<mdke> LaserJock: that's true I think. It's certainly not in ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs
<mdke> (because it's not shipped in that package)
<LaserJock> I see the server guide in there though
<mdke> oh damn, you're right. It *is* shipped in that package
<LaserJock> yeah
<mdke> I missed it out :(
<LaserJock> it *should* go by source
<LaserJock> anyway, no biggie
<LaserJock> I've been too big of a loser lately to do anything with it
<LaserJock> so I doubt there's been much for string changes
#ubuntu-doc 2007-04-08
<mdke> I'll add it, maybe we can do some updates
<LaserJock> it would be nice if at least the exisiting translations from Edgy were installed
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if that's the case now or what
<mdke> no, it's not
<mdke> we'll have to put it in rosetta first I think
* mdke goes to sleep on it
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4073 /generic/serverguide/ (759 files in 44 dirs): translations for serverguide
<bill_k> I'm trying to follow instructions at help.ubuntu.com/community/Install_Lirc_Edgy and I think there are some spots that are very vague/ incomplete.  If anyone has configured lirc per these instructions, please let me know
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4074 /kubuntu/firefox-startpage/kindex-ta.html: Kubuntu FF Tamil translation
<nixternal> mdke: thanks for the super large svn commit :)
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4075 /kubuntu/firefox-startpage/ (kindex-es.html kindex-ta.html): Tamil translation fix - new Spanish translation
<mdke> nixternal: :)
<mdke> LaserJock, nixternal: I need a favour... is one of you able to see what changes pitti has made to the ubuntu-docs package in the last upload and apply any diff to svn?
<LaserJock> mdke: on it
<mdke> yay
<mdke> I presume he's only done one new upload, hopefully that will be ok
<LaserJock> yeah
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha feisty * r4076 /debian/ (changelog control rules): * synced to Martin Pitt's upload of 7.04-2
<LaserJock> mdke: ^^
<mdke> LaserJock: wonderful thanks
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4077 /debian/ (changelog rules): new package
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4078 /ubuntu/Makefile: localised html for serverguide
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4079 /generic/translate.sh: translate script
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4080 /ubuntu/add-applications/eu/ (. add-applications-eu.omf add-applications.xml): one translation that got away
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4081 /symlink-dupes: pitti's script
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4082 /generic/server/C/ (installation.xml package-management.xml server.xml): amending this doc so that the irrelevant stuff isn't installed in the desktop docs
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4083 /generic/ (631 files in 43 dirs):
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * workaround script for adding translations to generic/server
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: * translations for generic/server ;)
<ubotu> New bug: #90101 in mediawiki1.7 (universe) "Installation instructions are incorrect" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90101
<lucas_> Hello?
<lucas_> Anyone awake yet?
<CIA-12> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4084 /kubuntu/firefox-startpage/kindex-eu.html: Kubuntu FF Basque translation
<ubotu> New bug: #104534 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Typo in about-ubuntu: RedHat" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104534
<LaserJock> mdke: heh, your email just landed in my Gmail spam folder :-)
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-31
<ubotu> New bug: #209530 in ubuntu-docs (main) "F-Spot photo import instructions are incorrect on first use" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/209530
<ubotu> New bug: #209614 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Server Guide needs to document unattended-upgrades" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/209614
<cody-somerville> nixternal, ping
<Flare183> I need some help. My account on the Ubuntu Wiki won't let me login! I think I accidentally checked off something like "never login again on my account"
<Flannel> Flare183: You'll have to ask the admins to fix it.  Uh, #canonical-sysadmin? is that the right channel?
<Flannel> Let me look
<Flare183> Please do I really screwed up this time
 * Flare183 says and Just when I was going to help too
<Flare183> Flannel: let me know when you are sure
<Flannel> Flare183: #canonical-sysadmin, yes.  No idea if they're actually the place to ask, but they'd be the first place I would look.  Even if they can't help, they should be able to direct you to where you should go.
<Flare183> ok
<Flare183> Flannel: in the topic is says to email rt@ubuntu.com should I do this
<Flannel> You should do both
<Flare183> ok
<Flare183> Flannel: what is that channel's name is again?
<mdke> you got it right the first time :)
<Flare183> i'm on windows
<Flare183> now
<Flare183> was on linux i don't remeber either
<Flare183> something about sysadm?
<Flare183> sysadmin*
<Flare183> right?
<Flare183> i got it
<mdke> Flare183: yes, but asking repeatedly won't help - it's night time for most sysadmins and they have quite a lot of urgent stuff. best to just ask once and be patient
<Flare183> ok will do
<Flare183> So just leave the team?
<Flare183> not the team the channel?
<Flannel> Flare183: or just wait for a response, that'd be a better choice
<Flare183> ok
#ubuntu-doc 2008-04-01
<Alejandro> Hi
<Alejandro> New guy here! from Argentina
<kgoetz> :)
<Alejandro> Reading every link of the Ubuntu Doc Team
<Alejandro> Planning to help,  don't have that much time, but whenever I can I will
<jjesse> Alejandro: yay for more help
<jjesse> quick docbook question how do you show or deal with exponents (that is 2 to the power of 3) or is it 2^3?
<Alejandro> Sorry are you talking to me? I'm new to the IRC thing.
<Alejandro> Is there anyone there?
<Alejandro> Hello?
<jjesse> Alejandro: yes i am here
<jjesse> said hi to you earlier
<jjesse> then was aksing for general help on my docbook question
<Alejandro> Sorry I was reading docs to find out how to help
<Alejandro> yeh sorry but there are some expression i dont understan like you needing help in your docbook
<jjesse> no worries
<Alejandro> =)
<Alejandro> I'm very new, I think I can help translating to spanish since I'm from Argentina so I was reading on the Rosetta thing and how to find packages to translate
<jjesse> is there a ubunt argentina local team that could help out that way?
<jjesse> that you could contact for help
<Alejandro> so then I should subscribe here but locally?
<jjesse> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/local#head-a7b564b3ab32d9458a1e526d875447b2e7cd9fd6
<jjesse> shows the infromation for the argentina team
<jjesse> you can still help here out as well
<Alejandro> =) awesome i'll check it out THX
<sphinxx> hello
<sphinxx> can someone help me i have a question about partitioning
<kgoetz> sphinxx: try #ubuntu
<sphinxx> oh ok thanks
<sphinxx> so whats this channel for?
<kgoetz> coordinating documentation work
<sphinxx> oh ok
<mdke> morning all
<mdke> hmm. Removing translated xml cuts our working tree down from 200MB to 60MB...
<mdke> good :)
<kgoetz> mdke: wow... that nice *grin*
<kgoetz> i might have to do an update to my checkout
<ubotu> New bug: #210196 in ubuntu-docs (main) "link in default polish homepage needs to be changed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210196
<TomaszD> hi, any ideas why ubuntu-docs-index is missing while kubuntu-docs-index exists? I can't find the template for ubuntu for the welcome html page of firefox
<mdke> TomaszD: there is no reliable way to translate html using rosetta. Neither kubuntu nor ubuntu uses it for the firefox homepage - you need to send translation updates manually to the documentation team as announced from time to time on the translators list
<mdke> TomaszD: the kubuntu-docs-index template relates to the index page for the kubuntu help system, not the welcome page of firefox
#ubuntu-doc 2008-04-02
<jjesse> hello Admiral_Chicago_
<Admiral_Chicago> hiya jjesse, how is everything
<alefteris> I'm translating the browser start page. I notised that some index files use only the language code extension, while some others use the the language_country extension. which one should I use for greek? el or el_GR?
<alefteris> i need this info in advance so that i can put the apropriate links to the index file in the ubufox locale, thanks
<alefteris> the bug report for the greek firefox page is bug #210878 thanks
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210878 in ubuntu-docs "Browser start page localized for Greek" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210878
<ubotu> New bug: #210878 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Browser start page localized for Greek" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210878
#ubuntu-doc 2008-04-03
<LaserJock> who do we talk to about wiki spam?
<mdke> LaserJock: you get the account disabled in #launchpad
<Madpilot> spammers?
<mdke> Madpilot: right
<Madpilot> fun
<Lhademmor> Hi all, I've just created a patch for bug 185892 , but since I still consider myself a newcomer, could someone please comment on it? :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 185892 in ubuntu-docs "instructions how to paste commands incorrect" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185892
<mdke> evening all
<LaserJock> hi mdke
<nixternal> old school documentors reunite!
 * LaserJock ^5s nixternal 
<nixternal> wasabi LaserJock and mdke!?!
<LaserJock> ouch, think I trhew out my shoulder
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> bum
 * LaserJock runs for the Bengay
<nixternal> come on, icey hot is way better
<jjesse> afternoon all
<LaserJock> jjesse: wow, you must have offended nixternal :-)
<jjesse> LaserJock: i thought it was you
<LaserJock> oh, that could be
<LaserJock> must've been the Bengay vs Icey Hot comment :-)
<mdke> whoops, sorry. Hi LaserJock, nixternal
<mdke> hi jjesse too
<jjesse> hello mdke
<LaserJock> mdke: so lifeless suggested starting from scratch for Intrepid?
<mdke> yes
<mdke> I've created the branches now, and pushed them to launchpad
<mdke> it takes like 2 minutes to get one from scratch
<mdke> :)
<LaserJock> nice!
<LaserJock> and they are the newer format?
<mdke> LaserJock: yes
<mdke> LaserJock: which means you can't download them into a shared repo with the old format... but I'm hoping to upgrade all the branches shortly
<jjesse> i branched my own intrepid last night :)
<mdke> jjesse: from the launchpad one?
<jjesse> mdke: yeah did a bzr branch to get it locally and then i'll push to the shared branch
<mdke> cool
<mdke> everything work ok?
<LaserJock> mdke: the old branche could go into a shared repo anyway, from what I understnd
<jjesse> mdke: yeah they did
<jjesse> it was super quick i didn't know what to do ;)
<mdke> LaserJock: the non-intrepid branches are all the same format, so they can go into a shared repo with that format
<mdke> LaserJock: the new one is a different format, so it can only go into shared repos with the new format
<LaserJock> mdke: but I was told that their format wasn't supported by shared repos
<mdke> LaserJock: which format?
<mdke> old or new?
<LaserJock> bah, I can't remember it exactly
<LaserJock> old
<LaserJock> dir-state-something
<mdke> sure they can. I've had one since we started using bzr
<LaserJock> huh
<LaserJock> ok, #bzr told me I had to convert them before I could use them in a shared repo
<mdke> maybe you mean that Launchpad doesn't support shared repos on the server-side?
<LaserJock> no
<mdke> well, that is definitely wrong :)
<LaserJock> ok then
<LaserJock> no biggie, other than I spent like 1.5hrs converting branches the other day to get a shared repo :/
<mdke> LaserJock: the shared repo instructions have been on our wiki page since we started
<mdke> but anyway, there is value in converting your branches :)
<mdke> you get the new format
<LaserJock> yeah
<mdke> so you upgraded with bzr upgrade?
<LaserJock> well, I haven't used bzr much with the doc team
<LaserJock> unfortunately edubuntu-docs is ... slow going
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> what I did was create a shared repo
<LaserJock> then I branched my local branch into it
<LaserJock> which did the conversion
<mdke> ah, that's what I did too
<mdke> I've been a bit worried about trying the upgrade on our lp branches, in case something breaks
<LaserJock> it seems from hanging out in #bzr that upgrading formats should be pretty safe
<LaserJock> but to be honest, I don't like how bzr keeps changing
<LaserJock> it makes me feel like git is safer and more friendly :-)
<mdke> it's a bit odd, yeah
<LaserJock> it seems like I'm always in a "corner case" or something
<mdke> what really has been a pita for us has been the bzr-svn import
<mdke> because bzr-svn forces you to use a non-default format
<mdke> due to something to do with how svn works, dunno what
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I wish they would have done a bit more work with us on that
<mdke> I don't think there is a way around it
<LaserJock> well, converting it to a good format would have helped
<mdke> the new format didn't exist at the time
<mdke> ours *was* the good format, I think
<LaserJock> but there was a standard "old" for mat
<LaserJock> well, #bzr told me that it was an experimental format
<mdke> right, which couldn't be used because we used bzr-svn to import the repo
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but we could have had it converted
<mdke> apparently not
<LaserJock> from the bzr-svn import format to a standard knit format
<mdke> you can't convert in that direction, apparently
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> to me that's why this stuff is less than ideal
<LaserJock> but oh well, that's water under the bridge
<LaserJock> with fresh branches we could do this "student branchs" thing
<LaserJock> without it being a big ordeal
<mdke> well, I still have the same concerns about that
<mdke> single branches, sure, but a team branch, little bit more cautious
<LaserJock> sure sure
<LaserJock> that's what I meant
<mdke> if a student undertakes a biggish project, a separate branch would work
<LaserJock> I just couldn't imagine students pushing these hug branches around for a patch
<LaserJock> *huge
 * mdke nods
<mdke> a patch is much easier
<LaserJock> I still don't get the distributed VCS stuff, tbh
<LaserJock> I like being able to work offline
<LaserJock> but it still seems like sending a patch to a list is the way to go
<LaserJock> as opposed to merging branches all the time
<mdke> I think for bigger things, I can see how it would work
<mdke> but for small things, no
<LaserJock> mdke: oh dude, while you are here :-)
<LaserJock> mdke: I would like to have the LTSP information that was in the Edubuntu Handbook transferred to ubuntu-intrepid
<LaserJock> I'm not so sure it would fit in very well with TBH
<LaserJock> we could trying to make it suitable or we could do a LTSP Guide
<LaserJock> do you have an opinion?
<mdke> LaserJock: I don't think the average desktop user will use that material, so I wonder if it wouldn't work better as a separate package?
<LaserJock> I was gonna say we could put it in the Server Guide
<LaserJock> but that's not right either
<mdke> LaserJock: or move it to the wiki, it really depends on when it is used
<LaserJock> well, we will probably have a online version on edubuntu.org
<mdke> what's wrong with it in edubuntu?
<LaserJock> it's not in Edubuntu anymore
<LaserJock> LTSP is a part of Ubuntu
<LaserJock> so it would be more logical to have it in Ubuntu
<mdke> ah, I'm a bit hampered by not knowing what LTSP is
<LaserJock> I guess a separate packages might work, though I'd probably want to build it out of ubuntu-docs rather than edubuntu-docs
<mdke> I thought edubuntu was built on it
<LaserJock> it is
<LaserJock> but Edubuntu is now an addon CD
<LaserJock> LTSP is server stuff
<LaserJock> that is now in the Ubuntu Alternate CD
<LaserJock> so that's why it's all confusing
<LaserJock> it's mostly used by Edubuntu users at this point, but it's not edubuntu-specific
<LaserJock> I guess we could ditch it altogether :/
<LaserJock> it's been an almost 2 year project though, I hate to just get rid of it
 * mdke head swims
<LaserJock> sorry
<mdke> let's keep it around and decide what to do with it
<mdke> but I don't think I can help much with that decision ;)
 * mdke is busy smashing up the ubuntu-intrepid layout
<LaserJock> well, I just wonder if you'd be opposed to having another "Guide" in ubuntu-docs
<mdke> LaserJock: no, not in principle, at all
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> mdke: do you want me to smash edubuntu-docs after you're done?
<mdke> it's quite fun...
<mdke> but I won't be done fixing it for a while :)
<LaserJock> I wondered if we could use prefixes for stuff in the common areas that are derivative-specfic
<mdke> you mean derivative specific individual files?
<LaserJock> yep
<mdke> they should definitely have unique names
<LaserJock> the only thing I might have a conflict with is maybe gnome-menus-C.ent from libs/
<mdke> but isn't it good to be able to merge the bits you want and keep the bits you don't separate?
<LaserJock> actually nope
<LaserJock> I have edubuntu-menus-C.ent
<LaserJock> how do you mean exactly?
<LaserJock> I don't plan on doing any merging
<LaserJock> let me think about this
<LaserJock> I just don't see how this would work other than having all the contents of the derivatives in ubuntu-*
<LaserJock> these are divergent branches I think
<mdke> yay, revision 2 pushed up
<LaserJock> so a merge would cause me to get anything else that had changed in ubuntu-*
<mdke> I don't follow
<LaserJock> how would I merge changes to libs/ into edubuntu-
<LaserJock> I would have to merge each individual revision
<LaserJock> and they would have to not touch anything but libs/
<LaserJock> otherwise I'm going to get all the other stuff and the merge will fail
<mdke> can't you merge from a specific location?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> only a branch
<mdke> really?
<LaserJock> yep
<mdke> i thought you could merge a specific file, I'm sure I've done that before
<LaserJock> well hmm
<mdke> well, you should be able to!
<mdke> we will demand that it be implemented :)
<LaserJock> I swear #bzr told me you couldn't but they eventually wanted to be able to do that
<LaserJock> but now that I think about it, that seems a bit nuts
<mdke> ah
<mdke> let's try
<mdke> man that sucks
<LaserJock> didn't work?
<LaserJock> does it tell you they are divergent branches?
<mdke> "no common ancestor"
<LaserJock> right
<mdke> anyway, you can do it on the revision number
<LaserJock> so like I said, we'd need to make sure that we only touch libs/ when we are making a change
<LaserJock> and the derivates will need to do each revision individually
<mdke> yes, but small commits are good anyway
<LaserJock> wich isn't horrible, but not exactly trivial either
<mdke> yes
<mdke> but in the future...
<mdke> we can try nesting a common branch in each of our derivative branches
<mdke> and just updating that
<mdke> the benefit of having this format
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> this way isn't too bad as long as everybody know about it
<LaserJock> libs/ change rarely
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> ok, time for bed
<mdke> nice to chat! cya
<LaserJock> mdke: cya
#ubuntu-doc 2008-04-04
<ubotu> New bug: #150812 in ubuntu-doc "ubuntu wiki should point to launchpad to change password" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150812
#ubuntu-doc 2008-04-05
<mdke> morning all
<ubotu> New bug: #14425 in ubuntu-meta "[enh] please add a password change utility for normal users" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/14425
<ubotu> New bug: #212249 in ubuntu-doc "Add and remove programs crashed on install." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212249
#ubuntu-doc 2008-04-06
<LjL> hello, i'd like to write a page about DICT based dictionaries setup (remote and local, GNOME and KDE clients, etc). should i use the page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Dictionary - which is very skeletal at the moment, but seems to have been intended about the standard GNOME Dictionary program only - or make a separate one?
<mdke> LjL: that sounds appropriate to me
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-31
<j1mc> i met a guy from amazon at a doc conference today.  they use docbook for their webservices docs. :)
<j1mc> also, the guy who wrote "opensuse unleashed" uses kubuntu.
<j1mc> D.I.T.A. seems to be the 'new black' in corporate doc production, though. It's open source, though, and opensuse packages it.  It wouldn't hurt to at least have it packaged for Ubuntu.
<jjesse> nice
<jjesse> never heard of dita, website for more info/
<jjesse> my shift doesn't work
<jjesse> that's wierd and sucks
<philip_> good thing you have two of them
<jjesse> neither one works, tab, shift caps lock ctrl
<jjesse> hrmm
<jjesse> in my windows vm it works but not in jaunty
<jjesse> that is wierd
<j1mc> jjesse: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-dita1/
<jjesse> j1mc: i can't use that program, i'm a christian and don't believe in evolution ;p
<philip_> you guys are considering a new structure for ubuntu docs?
<j1mc> philip_: no, not really.  i'm just mentioning this.
<j1mc> jjesse: i didn't link to any evolution stuff, did i?
<jjesse> j1mc: darwin ;0
<j1mc> haha
<jjesse> glad you thought that was funny
<j1mc> jjesse: i heard of some christian groups even aliasing linux commands like, "kill all" and stuff like that. :)
<j1mc> it was hear-say, though...
<j1mc> don't know the details and i'm not even sure if it is true.
<j1mc> jjesse: it doesn't really seem all that different from docbook in terms of how it works.  instead of entities, you have 'conrefs' . . . i'm just learning about it.  the content reuse stuff i learned about today was pretty neat, though.
<jjesse> j1mc: it looks interesting, bookmarked to read more
<j1mc> coolness.
<j1mc> like i said above, i may see about at least getting it packaged for ubuntu.  it's in opensuse, but not fedora.  opensuse actually packages docbook 3, 4 and 5 as separate packages.
<cody-somerville> Hiya
<pace_t_zulu_> i'd like to document how to compile webkitgtk ... i am at http://help.ubuntu.com/community
<pace_t_zulu_> can someone give me pointers?
<pace_t_zulu> hey
<pace_t_zulu> anyone here?
<cody-somerville> I'm here
<pace_t_zulu> sup man
<pace_t_zulu> i am compiling webkitgtk on jaunty beta 1
<pace_t_zulu> there is no documentation online
<pace_t_zulu> i'd like to add to the community wiki
<pace_t_zulu> or just create a package for it
<pace_t_zulu> could you give me some pointers?
<pace_t_zulu> guess not... i'll go at it on my own
<cody-somerville> mdke, ping
<mdke> cody-somerville: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
<cody-somerville> mdke, I want to move documentation branches into their own project and use a project group
<schwuk> Hey all. Just wanted to let you know about a new icon for Checkbox that's included in the 0.7.1 bugfix release we've asked to be included in Jaunty. bug 352389
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 352389 in checkbox "Please update Checkbox to latest stable 0.7.1 in Jaunty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352389
<schwuk> Don't think it should affect you too much.
<mdke> schwuk: agreed, don't even know what checkbox is
<mdke> cody-somerville: well, as per my email really, I'm extremely disappointed that you've gone ahead and forced this through without discussion
<cody-somerville> I was just trying to get the translation stuff working
<cody-somerville> our docs package isn't in main
<cody-somerville> so it doesn't get automatically imported into Rosetta
<mdke> no, I'm afraid that doesn't wash - it wasn't necessary for you to do that to get translations working
<mdke> translation templates already existed under the Ubuntu project, all that was necessary was to update them
<cody-somerville> Thats not quite true
<schwuk> mdke: System > Administration > System Testing == Checkbox
<cody-somerville> There are templates that are not used anymore and new ones that aren't there
<mdke> cody-somerville: and why did creating a new project help you to change that in a way that you couldn't do anyway?
<mdke> schwuk: ok, will check it out. Dont' think it's documented, anyway
<cody-somerville> Because projects can import new templates and have other options available that packages don't
<cody-somerville> mdke, I'd encourage you to take a look at project groups
<cody-somerville> mdke, it provides you with everything you're looking for and everthing I'm looking for
<cody-somerville> Anyhow, I have to run to the bank. I'll be back shortly and would be happy to continue a productive dialogue on how we can best take advantage of launchpad.
<mdke> cody-somerville: actually, I have some objections to using a project group too, but at the moment I'm just expressing my disappointment that you went ahead and did this without discussing it
<cody-somerville> I don't think its that big of a deal. Infact, I think its a bigger deal that we've decided to use launchpad oppositely to how the rest of the Ubuntu and launchpad community do.
<schwuk> mdke: thanks
 * cody-somerville is off to the bank, bbl
<j1mc> cody-somerville: the xubuntu docs look great with the exception of the draft watermark being in place on the doc page.
<cody-somerville> j1mc, indeed
<cody-somerville> j1mc, Is knome still planning on giving it a css/image refresh?
<philip_> is there a designated person who responds to new people on the doc list? especially those with patches.
<mdke> cody-somerville: the difference is that the current use is a result of discussion, whereas your actions were directly contrary to previous discussions, and complete disregard for the team. If you can't see that, then we'll just have to leave it there
<mdke> philip_: not really. your patch will be seen to, but it's a bit slow at the moment because our docs have been frozen for the jaunty release in April
<philip_> why freeze them? so translators can catch up?
<mdke> philip_: exactly right
<philip_> if a translation is let's say 80% complete, do you include them?
<mdke> I think the threshold is exactly 80%, as it happens :)
<philip_> interesting
<philip_> i work on the php manual, and we end up inserting english where the translations are missing (not saying this is perfect... but just comparing)
<mdke> if a translation is 80% complete, the remaining 20% automatically shows in English
<mdke> but if a translation is less than 80% complete, it isn't included in Ubuntu at all
<philip_> ah
<mdke> this is because we don't have enough CD space to ship that many translations, so we choose the most complete ones
<philip_> interesting
<mdke> ideally, we'd do it differently, but there are some technical objections
<philip_> yeah, gets tricky
<philip_> do you like working with po files? i'm considering proposing this and implementing for us
<mdke> yes, it's excellent.
<philip_> it's sad when we change markup to the english docbook, thus rendering every translation of said file as outdated
<mdke> as long as the toolchain for converting the documentation to a po file is robust enough
<mdke> in the case of xml, there is a good tool (xml2po)
<philip_> i'm still learning about this process
<philip_> and studying ubuntu :)
<mdke> philip_: with xml2po, each string is separate so the translators only have to update individual paragraphs
<philip_> i must say your "how to contribute" page is amazing
<philip_> ours is total fail
<mdke> the general page?
<philip_> the main page for ubuntu, but specifically https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
<mdke> that's good to hear
<mdke> we have revised it quite a bit in an attempt to make it clear
<philip_> the only part that wasn't clear is how to check out the source, for bzr dummies like me
 * mdke nods
<mdke> philip_: feel free to amend it, a fresh pair of eyes is always good
<philip_> didn't realize bzr knows about the ubuntu namespace, without an url and such
<philip_> so struggled to find an url
<mdke> bzr has some integration with Launchpad which makes things simple
<mdke> that works with any project using Launchpad, not just Ubuntu :)
<philip_> magic
<j1mc> mdke: what element determines whether or not the draft watermark is printed?  is it this? <xsl:param name="draft.mode" select="'yes'"/>
<mdke> j1mc: yes, you should change that to 'no'
<j1mc> awesome.  glad i found that.  thanks.
<mdke> :)
<nixternal> hola!
<mdke> hi nixternal
<nixternal> j1mc: you gonna be home in time for Flourish on Friday and Saturday? If you don't come and see my talk, I will be hurt :p
<nixternal> how goes it Mr. East?
<j1mc> nixternal: i'll only be there on saturday.
<j1mc> :(
<nixternal> grrr
<nixternal> well, I will be on the Open Source Panel so you can see that
<mdke> nixternal: fine thanks, you?
<nixternal> I was planning on attacking the creator of Ruby, but after reading up on him, he is a cool dude
<nixternal> mdke: doing good, trying to find a job in this wonderful American economy :)
<mdke> nixternal: ah, best wishes for that
<nixternal> thank you sir
<jjesse> hello nixternal
<nixternal> hallo
<jjesse> did i ask if you were around the week of the 13th of april?  i'll be in oakbrook
<nixternal> I should be around
<nixternal> ya, you asked already :p
<nixternal> aren't you in Evanston right now?
<jjesse> doing it remotely, was going to be in evanston, but client has no budget this year so doing work remotely
<jjesse> so i sit at my desk working through gotomeeting.com
<jjesse> which doesn't have a linux client, so i have to run an xp vm to do any work
<nixternal> ahh..was gonna tell you to make sure to hit up their Irish Pubs...bar none the best I have been in
<nixternal> you going to be working at McDonalds headquarters in Oak Brook?
<nixternal> you can see Hamburger University :)
<jjesse> lol, i wish
<jjesse> no symantec has an office there i'll be working out of
<nixternal> hrmm, i didn't know symantec moved to Oak Brook
<jjesse> just a chicago office
<nixternal> they used to be next door to CA (Computer Associations)
<nixternal> err, Associates..the other virus software company
<jjesse> hrmm probablly, don't know how long they've been in oakbrook
#ubuntu-doc 2009-04-01
<Mirv> hmm, with the recent language-specific gnome-user-guide packages, Assistive Tools seems to have completely disappeared now. is there a bug / discussion about it going on somewhere?
<Mirv> I mean the topic on the Yelp front page, of couse accessibility guide is included also in eg. gnome-user-guide-fi
<mdke> Mirv: no, I wasn't aware of that
<mdke> Mirv: is the relevant omf file installed in /usr/share/omf/?
<Mirv> mdke: it looks like none of the gnome-user-guide-* install anything under that now
<Mirv> oh, right, that also means none of the navigation to Gnome docs from Yelp work either
<mdke> Mirv: ok, I'll file a bug
<Mirv> mdke: ok, thanks, and thanks for the newest ubuntu-docs upload with also updated translations
<mdke> Mirv: no worries, I had to hurry that upload through because the previous upload was broken, so I haven't had time to check the translations yet
<mdke> man these bug duplicates are coming in thick and fast
<mdke> :(
<sommer> ya, curses to automatic bug reporting, heh :-)
<mdke> i wish ubuntu-docs didn't take over an hour to build, the fix is taking absolutely ages to go to the archive
<bhuvan> hi mdke & sommer
<sommer> hey bhuvan
<bhuvan> a question: in case i wish to commit new fixes to server guide, which branch should i use. i assume i shouldn't commit in ubuntu-jaunty branch
<mdke> bhuvan: correct, we are in string freeze now
<mdke> bhuvan: I've just pushed up a new branch here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-karmic
<bhuvan> mdke: thank you.
<bhuvan> sommer: do you have any topics you like to be added for next release in server guide?
<bhuvan> i'll be doing some r&d and come up with few new topics to be added in server guide
<sommer> bhuvan: ya, I have some ideas, it's on my list to create a blueprint for the karmic serverguide
<sommer> bhuvan: I'll try and do that today
<bhuvan> glad to hear, sommer
<sommer> I think the main ones I had are vpn (openvpn), dynamic dns, chat server (irc, jabber), server monitoring (nagios, munin)
<bhuvan> ok sommer
<bhuvan> does nagios has configuration utility in command line?
<sommer> bhuvan: not that I know of... just config files :)
<bhuvan> yeah ok
<bhuvan> if you are ok, i can come up with the content for chat servers (irc, jabber)
<mdke> nixternal: isn't your email an april fool?
<nixternal> yup :)
<nixternal> just the first thing about all of us stepping down and the last bit...the rest is read
<nixternal> real
<mdke> so wtf is scott on about
<mdke> oh, his email is part of it too
<mdke> cunning
<nixternal> oh, I didn't even see his response :)
<nixternal> mdke: hahahahhaa, man I just read his response, classic....that was good
<mdke> yes, it fooled me
<mdke> I had to go to LP to check
<nixternal> rofl
<nixternal> hahahahahaha
<nixternal> I love when that happens....I have been fooled by 1 thus far
<nixternal> and that was the Mythbuntu planet post
<nixternal> I went and congratulated them all
<nixternal> then they said 'hit the .deb download link"...and then a pink bunny popped up and got me :)
 * mdke goes to look
<mdke> that's quite detailed
<nixternal> ya it is...that is why I fell for it
<nixternal> mdke: hahahaha, you aren't the only one to fall for it with keybuk's comment
<nixternal> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-April/002083.html
<mdke> wow, he was even fooled by yours
<mdke> :p
<nixternal> hahahaha, cjwatson fell for it too
<nixternal> he was about to reply he said then held up
<jpds> Nice one nixternal.
<mdke> it was the bit about Launchpad developers that gave it away
<nixternal> right
<nixternal> and all of us stepping down at once? I thought that might give it away
<mdke> anyway, what's the record for bug duplicates? I think I may be approaching it with bug 353117
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 353117 in ubuntu-docs "package ubuntu-docs 9.04.6 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 2" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/353117
<nixternal> wth
<nixternal> 24 dups
<mdke> 24 duplicates
<nixternal> my lord
<nixternal> I am glad nobody reads the kubuntu-docs :D
<nixternal> 0 boogs for us right now
<mdke> in a matter of a few hours
<sommer> bhuvan: sorry, missed your last comment... sure that would be awesome if you could do the chat servers :)
<Mirv> mdke: do you plan on keeping the 75% cut-off rate for the release as well? just curious.
<Mirv> I guess we have to push our efforts on the internet section a bit :)
 * nixternal always thought it was like 60%
<nixternal> I have to give myself a refresher course in importing the translations again...been a while since I did it last
<Mirv> I was just looking at the build log to see if there was anything wrong and noticed the 0.75 there. it has varied, I think.
<Mirv> anyway, the ubuntu-docs update was smooth all in all. now if only the gnome-user-docs breakage would be fixed, and also yelp translations ("Enabling visual effects" need translations imported from Rosetta to yelp), and finally the Assistive Tools string in gnome-user-docs (when it's first fixed to appear at all)
<Mirv> ...everything would start to look quite great
<Mirv> ...of which the first one already fixed and now released
<mdke> Mirv: yes, we're likely to keep the cut off, as to the exact amount, I'm not sure
<mdke> Mirv: the gnome-user-docs bug has been fixed now
<mdke> Mirv: I'll do the gnome-user-docs translation import soon, but definitely by the deadline, and for the yelp import you need to bug the desktop team
<Mirv> mdke: ok. and I just made sure we pass 75% also :) I haven't filed a bug report for yelp, since when I did it the last time for another release there was a comment that there is no need to file such bugs as translations are imported regularly
<Mirv> (unless, of course, the desktop team forgets about since I'm not sure if it's written down anywhere...)
<mdke> Mirv: ok, wait until the deadline then file a bug if still not done
<Mirv> mdke: I will do so
<nixternal> mdke: what is the policy on minor typo fixes with docs immediately after a string freeze? it is still the same right, unless it is severe it doesn't get fixed until next ubuntu release right?
<mdke> nixternal: that's the theory, yes
<nixternal> ok, just wanted to make sure before I tell people "not now, in karmic"
#ubuntu-doc 2009-04-02
<bhuvan> any bzr expert around?
<bhuvan> when i do bzr commit bzr+ssh://bhuvan@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-karmic
<bhuvan> bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-karmic/.bzr/branch/lock): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()
<bhuvan> i'm facing that error, any clue on why it occurs?
<bhuvan> bzr break-lock didnt help
<jpds> You're suppose to just 'bzr commit' and then 'bzr push' to that location.
<sommer> bhuvan: are you ssh keys on LP up to date?
<sommer> bhuvan: I think you get different error when that happens though
<bhuvan> sommer: i think so. i did not change it et all
<bhuvan> i suspected the issue is because i co using http, i changed .bzr/branch/branch.conf and set as bzr+ssh
<jpds> Why it's saying http:// when you're using bzr+shh:// I don't know.
<bhuvan> now when i did bzr commit it complains:
<bhuvan> Permission denied (publickey).
<bhuvan> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions (and try -Dhpss if further diagnosis is required)
<sommer> bhuvan: maybe try re-uploading your key?
<bhuvan> jpds, i think it was because i checked out using http://
<bhuvan> ok, will do sommer
<sommer> bhuvan: ya, I usually just do bzr branch lp:ubuntu-doc, then bzr commit followed by bzr push to commit up to LP
<sommer> bhuvan: you can also bind to the branch, but if you remember to do bzr pull before committing any changes it's pretty much the same thing... from what I understand anyway :)
<bhuvan> sommer: re-uploading the key seem to help
<bhuvan> bzr commit says ... Committed revision 258.
<bhuvan> bzr push says ... No new revisions to push.
<bhuvan> sommer: do you think
<bhuvan>  i'm alright?
<sommer> bhuvan: did you make any changes?
<bhuvan> yes to mail.xml
<sommer> bhuvan: try bzr push lp:ubuntu-doc
<sommer> maybe it just needs to know where to push
<bhuvan> sommer: i'll try it. righ tnow, i'm doing bzr branch lp:ubuntu-doc
<bhuvan> once it is complete, i will run bzr push lp:ubuntu-doc
<bhuvan> thanks!
<sommer> bhuvan: np
<mdke> bhuvan: no, not lp:ubuntu-doc - we are in string freeze so you need to commit to the karmic branch only
<mdke> sommer: ^^
<sommer> oh right, I guess I assumed lp:ubuntu-doc was now karmic
<mdke> I'll change it shortly
<sommer> party!
<LaserJock> hola
<LaserJock> anybody around this time o' day?
<mdke> LaserJock: yep
<LaserJock> oh, you're still up
<mdke> LaserJock: to reply to your last in -devel
<mdke> LaserJock: you'll need to ship them with the doc itself
<LaserJock> I got to looking at what you guys were doing a bit more in depth
<mdke> LaserJock: if you use /usr/share/edubuntu-docs, it won't work
<LaserJock> I'm not sure why you're symlinking "libs" but it's a bit interesting
<mdke> LaserJock: go ahead
<LaserJock> well, basically ubuntu-doc is taking an exclusive lock on "libs" which has been a fairly generic directory in the past
<mdke> LaserJock: yes, it doesn't really account for derivatives which also use Gnome, I suppose
<LaserJock> if one installs the new ubuntu-docs and *then* installs edubuntu-docs then it'd be fine I guess, but it's a bit hackish it seems
<mdke> and which might not use ubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> for me it's not much of a problem as Edubuntu only has one doc
<LaserJock> but it might be something to think about in the future
<mdke> yes, we should think that through and clean things up a bit for karmic
<mdke> do you have an easy alternative solution? I guess the other way around may work better (ship /usr/share/gnome/help/libs/ and symlink from /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/libs)
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> what was the point of doing the symlinking?
<LaserJock> we used to just dump in /usr/share/gnome/help/libs/
<mdke> I can't remember what the reasoning was :(
<mdke> probably there was some, even if twisted
<LaserJock> well, I would have maybe called it ubuntu-libs and left the "libs" as generic if you had a particular purpose for symlinking
<mdke> off the top of my head, I can't think of a reason for having /usr/share/ubuntu-docs at all
<mdke> maybe I'm missing something
<mdke> presumably ubuntu-serverguide uses it
<mdke> I'll certainly take a look at these issues in the next release
<LaserJock> well, in any case I can fix the immediate issue
<LaserJock> my problem is how to deal with a package that hasn't been updated in 1 year and trying to get it all to work in one shot
 * mdke nods
<mdke> LaserJock: sorry if the symlink has increased that pain
<LaserJock> well, the only thing I'm wondering about is translations
<mdke> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/edubuntu-docs
<mdke> quite a few templates there :(
<LaserJock> are the .ents translated?
<mdke> they are transposed directly into the translated xml
<mdke> i.e. the translated xml files don't use .ents
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> so it just comes down to me needing to move my 2 files somewhere else
<LaserJock> I guess if the structure is /usr/share/gnome/help/$$doc/$$lang/ then I could put the .ents in usr/share/gnome/help/$$doc/
<mdke> what I think you should do is to put the ents directly inside the xml file for the relevant document
<LaserJock> ah, well, yeah, I could do that too ;-)
<LaserJock> heh, they are all of 8 lines
<LaserJock> yeah, that's pretty ridiculous to separate out anyway
<mdke> LaserJock: you can eliminate any ents which aren't actually used
<mdke> if you have time :)
<mdke> then regenerate the pot files for safe keeping
<mdke> but no strings should change
<LaserJock> it's ok for the pot to change a little isn't it?
<LaserJock> I need to get "Hardy" and "8.04" updated to "Jaunty" and "9.04"
<mdke> LaserJock: yeah, for serious typos like that it's ok, but notify the translators so that they can update the translations if they wish
<mdke> LaserJock: that is, assuming that you'll be downloading the translations before Jaunty release :)
<LaserJock> ah crap
<LaserJock> this is just not going to be easy
<mdke> hmm?
<LaserJock> right now I can't generate a .pot correctly
<mdke> error?
<LaserJock> it spits out one giant msgid
<mdke> whuahu?
<LaserJock> well, I could just grab the .pots off of LP
<LaserJock> and s/Hardy/Jaunty/
<mdke> then they wouldn't fit the xml
<LaserJock> presumably
<LaserJock> well, it would fit the xml, just not the .pot generated from the xml
<mdke> I'm not sure
<LaserJock> hmmpf, get-pot.sh is the same between the two
<mdke> sorry?
<mdke> ok, I've got to crash now, catch up tomorrow
#ubuntu-doc 2009-04-03
<missaugustina> Hi!  I'm working on the windows guided partition doc and I have a few questions
<missaugustina> 1) Which branch do I want to edit?  Do I want to work on Jaunty since there's been a freeze on current versions of Ubuntu?
<missaugustina> OK nm, that's my only question :)
<mdke> missaugustina: it's the karmic branch that you need
<mdke> missaugustina: although at the moment, there is no serious difference between the two, as we haven't started doing much work on the karmic branch yet
<s3r3n1t7> Oh my, a page has gona missing! Could anyone tell me where https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RaidConfigurationHowto ended up?
<LjL> i was about to say that in other words, but. yes.
<s3r3n1t7> LjL, about to or did i miss it?
<LjL> no, i hadn't asked yet
<LjL> i was looking at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaidConfigurationHowto
<LjL> which claims it's been moved to /community/
 * s3r3n1t7 checks
<s3r3n1t7> well ... it says *poof* for me
<missaugustina> mdke: thanks!  I will sync karmic instead of jaunty :)
<LaserJock> mdke: I'm assuming you just copied old bzr branches to  make the edubuntu-jaunty branch
<LaserJock> for some reason, probably my fault, we only have up to gutsy in the bzr branch
<mdke> LaserJock: I can't remember if I made the edubuntu-jaunty branch or not, but what I do is "bzr branch X ; bzr push Y"
<mdke> missaugustina: great, look forward to seeing your material - great idea about doing documents for usb-creator
<LaserJock> mdke: are you going to do the ubuntu-docs upload to add a Conflicts?
<mdke> LaserJock: no, I'm not confident about that
<mdke> LaserJock: is edubuntu-docs fixed and uploaded now?
<LaserJock> I've just uploaded it
<LaserJock> mdke: I can upload ubuntu-docs if it's just adding the Conflicts
<mdke> awesome
<LaserJock> I just wasn't sure if you had more changes you had queued up or something
<mdke> LaserJock: yes please
<mdke> LaserJock: if you add the conflict to bzr I will combine it with something else I need to do later, and upload together
<LaserJock> well, let me just give you the line to add (I'm not in ubuntu-core-doc anymore)
<mdke> oh, really?
<mdke> what is the position on edubuntu-docs in bzr?
<LaserJock> really really bad
<mdke> so it's out of date with the package?
<LaserJock> yes
<mdke> what do you want to do about it?
<LaserJock> what you guys have is from Gutsy
<LaserJock> one sec
<mdke> so people have been changing the package without updating bzr? why is that?
<LaserJock> because nobody had access to the bzr and were in a hurry ;-)
<LaserJock> edubuntu-docs is basically dead
<LaserJock> well, Edubuntu is basically dead
<mdke> but they can just push to LP and ask someone to merge it
<LaserJock> yes
<mdke> slangasek has done that a couple of times for gnome-user-docs
<LaserJock> ok, so add this to the ubuntu-docs part in debian/control:    Conflicts: edubuntu-docs (<< 9.04.1ubuntu1)
<LaserJock> under Depends
<LaserJock> oh, there are already Conflicts
<LaserJock> so you want Conflicts: ubuntu-faqguide, ubuntu-quickguide (<< 5.10), edubuntu-docs (<< 9.04.1ubuntu1)
<mdke> gottit
<LaserJock> as far as bzr
<LaserJock> I would replace the edubuntu-jaunty branch with what the branch at http://package-import.ubuntu.com/e/edubuntu-docs/jaunty
<LaserJock> and replace the edubuntu-hardy branch with http://package-import.ubuntu.com/e/edubuntu-docs/hardy
<mdke> jeez
<LaserJock> that's the best I can come up with unfortunately
<mdke> it's poor form for people to have ignored that the package is maintained in bzr like that
<LaserJock> well, it was likely me so yeah
<LaserJock> I think I might have had a bzr branch that I was going to merge
<LaserJock> but it's gone now so ... :(
<LaserJock> this is what happens when people just throw stuff together
<mdke> ok
<LaserJock> but as it turns out, getting the branches from package-import.u.c will be just as good
<mdke> why don't you rejoin ubuntu-core-doc
<LaserJock> yeah, maybe that's a good idea
<LaserJock> I was trying to leave Ubuntu
<LaserJock> but perhaps it was a bit too soon :-)
<mdke> well, I wouldn't want to be the one to force you to stay, but... we love you
<mdke> do I need to wait for edubuntu-docs to be published before uploading next ubuntu-docs?
<LaserJock> mdke: ok, you need to add me to the team, I can't join myself
<LaserJock> mdke: LP ID is laserjock
<LaserJock> mdke: no, I think it should be fine to upload now
<mdke> ok, added you
<mdke> I had a discussion with vorlon about whether ubuntu-core-dev should be a member of ubuntu-core-doc so that they can commit to the bzr branches
<LaserJock> hmm
<mdke> (given that they can touch the packages ;))
<mdke> in theory I said yes, but pointed out that they wouldn't want all the bugmail and bzr commit msgs
<LaserJock> this is currently a sticky part of LP structure
<LaserJock> exactly
<nhandler> A lot of this will change after Archive Reorganization as well
<LaserJock> I think what we really should do is separate out the packaging from the docs
<LaserJock> nhandler: it'll probably get worse then
<nhandler> LaserJock: I'm not sure what will happen. There has been talk about merging core-dev with motu after the reogranization
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> but for the doc team, you still have the struggle between doc writers and packagers
<mdke> I don't really like the idea of separating out packaging much, but maybe it's the right thing to do
<LaserJock> so I would consider splitting it up
<mdke> really, it's not much of a problem in practice, because I'm basically the only one uploading most of the time
<LaserJock> yeah
<mdke> and it's easy for me to merge branches if someone else touches things
<LaserJock> can you directly upload?
<mdke> yes, only for ubuntu-docs and gnome-user-docs
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what the permissions would be like for that, it's tricky
<LaserJock> because you could have a packaging branch that is accessible by you + core dev
<mdke> well, I'm in ubuntu-dev I think
<LaserJock> and all you'd do is merge from the ubuntu-core-doc branch and upload
<LaserJock> rather than uploading from the ubuntu-core-doc branch directly
<nhandler> mdke: Yes you are. ubuntu-dev is for people with per-package upload rights
<LaserJock> so it'd just be adding a merge
<mdke> nhandler: right
<LaserJock> oh yeah, that's right
<LaserJock> I forgot how they did that
<mdke> there is this somewhere:
<mdke>  (u'Archive Upload Rights', u'mdke', None, u'ubuntu-docs')
<mdke>  (u'Archive Upload Rights', u'mdke', None, u'gnome-user-docs')
<mdke> that is what gives the per-package rights
<LaserJock> mdke: ohhh, I found the missing revisions
<LaserJock> the branches you made for intrepid was not updated to latest of Hardy I don't think
<LaserJock> because the edubuntu-hardy branch has the revisions
<mdke> maybe they came after we branched for intrepid
<LaserJock> perhaps so
<LaserJock> it was rather last minute
<LaserJock> in which case I just forgot (or didn't know) to update Intrepid's branch
<LaserJock> now for Intrepid and Jaunty are you guys starting the branch over from scratch?
<LaserJock> Hardy seems to have the full history
<mdke> at one stage we dropped the history, but since then we have carried it over
<mdke> it was just *huge*
<mdke> maybe after hardy we started afresh
<LaserJock> looks like it
<LaserJock> ok, I think I know enough to fix the Intrepid and Jaunty branches
<mdke> thanks dude
<LaserJock> np, it's all my fault anyway
<LaserJock> I just get rushed trying to put Edubuntu together and forget some cleanup :(
<mdke> crap, bug 354764 looks like a decent candidate for a string freeze exception
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 354764 in ubuntu-docs "libdvdread3 has been replaced by libdvdread4 in Jaunty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/354764
<LaserJock> you should be able to grep that though
<LaserJock> i.e. it doesn't have to be translated
<mdke> good point :)
<mdke> we'll need to sed all the translations though
<LaserJock> yeah
<mdke> (after downloading the for the final time)
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> we'll just have to try to remember to take care of that after translations are sorted
 * mdke kicks dput
<mdke> wheenver I'm uploading, using the internet becomes so painful
<mdke> LaserJock: how can I test this new Conflicts thing?
<LaserJock> install edubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> then try to install the new ubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> it should force removal of edubuntu-docs
<mdke> unless it is the new version, right?
<Atamira> :o
<Atamira> theres talking
<mdke> Atamira: we go through phases :)
<Atamira> i know..small phases..this is quite chatty
<mdke> recent times have been quite chatty
<mdke> near a release, I guess
<Atamira> its the upcoming release isnt it
<Atamira> the last minute things
<Atamira> then we'll all go back to be idle again
<mdke> well, it's been a very good release cycle, I think
<Atamira> im excited
<LaserJock> mdke: yeah, so then you'd install the newer edubuntu-docs and it should install fine
<mdke> ok, well i have about an hour while ubuntu-docs builds so we'll see
<mdke> hopefully edubuntu-docs will be available by then :)
<LaserJock> it's been about
<LaserJock> s/about/built/
<LaserJock> my brain
<mdke> cool
<LaserJock> edubuntu-intrepid was fixed
<LaserJock> just pushing edubuntu-jaunty
<LaserJock> done
<LaserJock> ok
 * LaserJock takes a breath
<mdke> nice, thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2009-04-04
<mdke> we really need to sort out the ridiculous build time of ubuntu-docs
<mdke> 2 hours is beyond a joke
<mdke> excellent, found a way to do that
<nhandler> Hi, I'm trying to fix Bug #285173, but I am having a hard time finding that section of the documentation. grep'ing the documentation as well as searching using yelp and the web interface turned up nothing. Did this section get modified/deleted, or am I doing something wrong?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 285173 in gnome-user-docs "Wrong Information in "Taking Screenshots" help" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285173
<nhandler> Oh wait, I missed the part about gnome-user-docs ;)
<mdke> heh
 * nhandler thought he had LP only displaying ubuntu-doc bugs
<mdke> nhandler: ideal way to fix that one is to do a patch which can go upstream too
<mdke> nhandler: if you grab lp:gnome-user-docs, that is a bzr import of upstream svn so you can do a patch on that if you like and send it upstream
<Rocket2DMn> hey mdke , i did some work on the RootSudo page last night following discussion a few weeks ago
<mdke> hiya Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> reorg-ed some stuff and made some of the existing warnings bold and oclored
<Rocket2DMn> I plan on going back later to add more details on actually configuring sudo, like for fine-grained control
<Rocket2DMn> Is there anything specific you would like to see done to the page mdke ?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: in the "enabling root account" bit, it says "Use at your own risk" but doesn't explain what those risks are
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: maybe that could be clearer
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, I'll see what I can pull together.  Maybe we need section in there just called Downsides of using root, like we have for sudo above
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: possibly
<Rocket2DMn> I think the document does still need some reorganizing, I may make a subpage entirely geared toward configuring sudoers, and leaving this base page to primarily explain differences in root and sudo, etc
<Rocket2DMn> Do you agree?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: that sounds sensible
<j1mc> hi all
<Rocket2DMn> ok mdke , i'll start on that within the next few weeks, possibly even this weekend
<mdke> :)
<mdke> hi j1mc
<Rocket2DMn> I'm also looking for more feedback on the MythTV email I sent out last night, there are SO many pages
<Rocket2DMn> Maybe there is a contact who organizes them that we could talk to
<Rocket2DMn> hi j1mc
<mdke> probably the mythbuntu team could help
<j1mc> i know mario limonciello, who i think is still pretty involved with mythbuntu.
<j1mc> i can talk with him about this
<mdke> yes he is
<Rocket2DMn> that would be great j1mc
<Rocket2DMn> I tend to think that just flat out deleting them is a good option, but I know that doesn't fly too well with most people :)
<mdke> some attempt should probably be made to consolidate material
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, I agree, unfortuntaly I don't see pages specific to Hardy and Intrepid really
<mdke> unless there is no useful stuff there of course
<Rocket2DMn> if those existed alongside the outdated ones, then I wouldn't feel so bad
<j1mc> mdke: i think omf files are you used by yelp, correct?  they can be safely removed from xubuntu-docs?
<mdke> j1mc: correct, provided that xubuntu-docs doesn't use yelp :)
<j1mc> that is the joke that is not funny, but we laugh anyway. :)  no, xubuntu docs do not use yelp.
<nhandler> mdke: Where should I send the gnome-user-docs patch? The upstream bug tracker? Or do they have a VCS that I should use?
<mdke> nhandler: bug tracker is the best option so it doesn't get lost
<mdke> j1mc: ok, then you can remove them
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, I'm gonna try my hand at fixing a bug - bug 243797 for hardy
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 243797 in ubuntu-docs "Networking troubleshooting docs refer to non-existent menu entry" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/243797
<Rocket2DMn> hey, when you refer to a program under System->Administration and you use something like (&device-manager;) to refer to it, where is the list of those items stored?
<Rocket2DMn> nvm i think i found it
<Rocket2DMn> I'm a little confused though - why are there more html files in the build than xml files?
<Rocket2DMn> the xml i am trying to edit is hardy/ubuntu/internet/C/wireless.xml but the page in the build where i see the problem is troubleshooting.html
<Rocket2DMn> How do I get my local copy from the repository up to date?  For example, in my Intrepid copy I'm stuck at revision 138 while 141 is the latest.
<Rocket2DMn> update and merge don't seem to do the trick
<Rocket2DMn> and my ubunt-doc is still pointing at jaunty rather than karmic
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: have you bound your branch to the bzr repo?
<Rocket2DMn> i followed the directions on the wiki when is et it up
<Rocket2DMn> i re-downaloded the ubuntu-doc branch so it should be good now, but intrepid is still outdated i guess
<Rocket2DMn> connor@compy686:~/ubuntu_bzr/intrepid$ bzr update
<Rocket2DMn> Tree is up to date at revision 138.
<Rocket2DMn> http://paste.ubuntu.com/144324/
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: maybe go to the root of your intrepid branch, and enter "bzr bind lp:ubuntu-doc/intrepid"
<j1mc> then bzr update
<Rocket2DMn> ok, i'll give that a go
<Rocket2DMn> ah cool, that seems to have worked, do i need to merge as well?
<j1mc> no, bzr update will always merge in changes from the branch
<Rocket2DMn> ok, so if i have changes that i have made, they will be overwritten?
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: i recommend that you use "bzr bind" on all of your doc branches
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, doing that right now j1mc , that isnt a command i saw on the wiki, perhaps it should be added
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: you can use "bzr status" to check on all of your changes.  if you try to update, but you have uncommitted changes, it will let you know.
<Rocket2DMn> do you have to do that every time the development docs move to the next release?
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: if you want to use the same folder when you switch from jaunty to karmic, you would need to do "bzr unbind"
<j1mc> i think... ?
<j1mc> not sure :)
<Rocket2DMn> hmm well for bug 243797 i made a local revision to wireless.xml in hardy
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 243797 in ubuntu-docs "Networking troubleshooting docs refer to non-existent menu entry" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/243797
<superm1> hi guys. j1mc pointed me at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-April/012593.html .i'll repost what i just said in another channel:
<Rocket2DMn> i update the branch and even did merge, but its not getting the old version of the file
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: superm1 just joined - you can talk to him about the mythbuntu docs
<Rocket2DMn> hi superm1 , that was me
<superm1> <superm1> j1mc, hmm.  forgot about all those old pages.  i suspect people still do link around every so often, so i think the best thing to do is to centralize around the latest version, but don't hardcode it in the URL
<superm1> <superm1> that way it can be updated regularly
<superm1> although it would be especially nice if there was a hit counter on pages so we could affirm that
<Rocket2DMn> superm1, in the past we have deleted pages that were specific to unsupported version, but there are just so many of these...
<superm1> Rocket2DMn, so how about adding a header to the tops of them that they will be deleted soon as a warning
<superm1> and then wait a few weeks and delete them
<Rocket2DMn> well, we have a Tag that marks pages as Candidates for Deletion
<Rocket2DMn> i tagged a couple of pages as Unsupported Version
<Rocket2DMn> until i realized how many there are
<Rocket2DMn> superm1, do you still maintain MythTV pages on the community docs?  I don't see many pages specific to supported versions like Hardy or Intrepid
<superm1> yeah we stopped actively maintaining them ourselves personally in favor of a PDF that gets released with different mythbuntu versions
<superm1> it's been easier to keep updated
<superm1> I'm not sure what other community folk have done with the pages tho
<Rocket2DMn> there all sorts of pages there, not just version specific (at least in title)
<Rocket2DMn> Since Gutsy is reaching EOL, I was going to suggest just dealing with all the Edgy, Feisty, and Gutsy pages at once
<superm1> yeah that seems fine to me
<superm1> if someone came in #ubuntu-mythtv asking about an old release, we wouldnt help them anyhow and instead point them at a newer release or the forums
<Rocket2DMn> we don't support old releases on the forums either
<Rocket2DMn> Ok superm1 , so you don't have a problem with removing the pages from the community docs then?
<superm1> yeah that should be fine as long as the releases are EOL
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, it's almost a shame, some of those pages are beautiful, but they arent supported anymore
<nhandler> mdke: Shouldn't we have a lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/ubuntu-karmic branch now?
<Rocket2DMn> j1mc, are you still here?
<superm1> Rocket2DMn, could you maybe make new pages with the old content and add a header that they need to be updated/
<superm1> like new pages that don't specify the version in them
<Rocket2DMn> superm1, I'm not sure exactly how you have them organized, there are honestly like 100 pages
<Rocket2DMn> lots of stuff under MythTV/Install
<Rocket2DMn> with /Server and /Live as subpages of those
<Rocket2DMn> and a whole host of child pages there, see - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TitleIndex
<Rocket2DMn> How much info do you plan on keeping on the wiki?
<superm1> i think the thing is a lot of pages include other pages
<Rocket2DMn> agreed superm1 , i had noticed that
<Rocket2DMn> When pages get deleted, we remove all links to them first
<Rocket2DMn> I'm sure some of those pages are not your official pages, but if you know which ones are/were, we can start with those
<Rocket2DMn> Perhaps you could get your volunteers to spend time on the pages, since I don't really know anything about MythTV.  If the community can decide which pages are absolutely no longer needed, they can delete the contents and tag them for Deletion
<superm1> well i think the best thing to do would be post in the mythbuntu forum looking for help to clean up
<Rocket2DMn> i see you have lots of stickies in there already :)
<Rocket2DMn> superm1, would you like time to discuss with your team how best do proceed with coordinating your documentation efforts?
<Rocket2DMn> Once you decide how you're going to approach the task, I'd be happy to help you with removing pages
<Rocket2DMn> I think it is best if you pull all the info you desire from existing pages, and then mark the pages for Deletion using the Candidate for Deletion tag
<Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
<Rocket2DMn> Pages that are to be deleted can't be Included by other pages, and wiki links to that page should be removed
<mdke> nhandler: yes
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, when you get a few minutes, i uploaded patches to a few bugs
<Rocket2DMn> would you mind reviewing them and checking that I did them correctly?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: yes, I'm having a look
<Rocket2DMn> cool, thanks
<mdke> they look fine
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: i guess you checked the photo program against the actual software?
<Rocket2DMn> i downloaded the program in jaunty and looked
<mdke> great
<Rocket2DMn> I don't know if any of those other bugs want to have SRUs
<Rocket2DMn> well i guess one already is
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> the musicvideophotos patch doesn't work
<mdke> how did you make it?
<Rocket2DMn> hm maybe my local branch was outdated, hold up
<Rocket2DMn> i was having issues earlier
<mdke> were you using the karmic branch?
<Rocket2DMn> since i made tha tpatch i redownloaded the development branch
<Rocket2DMn> i think it may hav ebeen stuck on jaunty
<Rocket2DMn> i
<Rocket2DMn> ill redo it
<mdke> I think you may have done it on the hardy branch
<mdke> because musicvideophotos.xml in jaunty and karmic doesn't have the relevant section, it's in photos.xml now
<Rocket2DMn> yeah i see stuff got re-orged
<Rocket2DMn> if it's even still applicable...
<mdke> should be, the bug was reported on the basis of jaunty I think
<Rocket2DMn> yeah i quick grep for one of those phrases didnt find it though
<Rocket2DMn> ah there is is
<Rocket2DMn> is the patch i uploaded applicable to the existing jaunty docs?
<mdke> no
<Rocket2DMn> hm weird
<mdke> you've edited musicvideophotos.xml, but in Jaunty that file is empty
<mdke> it only includes other files
<mdke> that's why I say you must have been working on hardy
<Rocket2DMn> http://paste.ubuntu.com/144416/
<Rocket2DMn> is that better?
<mdke> looks like it will work
<Rocket2DMn> that is for karmic
<Rocket2DMn> does it work for jaunty, too? i havent checked
<mdke> that works on karmic
<Rocket2DMn> after i make changes, how do i overwrite them with what is in the repository?  When I merge it says nothing to do, but status shows 2 files that i've worke don
<Rocket2DMn> if i merge --force, will it overwrite my changes?
<Rocket2DMn> apparently not
<mdke> you can revert changes made by you with "bzr revert"
<Rocket2DMn> ah, sweet, thanks
<Rocket2DMn> lol mdke , my last name is Imes, not Ines :)
<Rocket2DMn> no worries
<nhandler> :)
<Rocket2DMn> nice catch nhandler , i never wouldve noticed
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: whoops
#ubuntu-doc 2009-04-05
<Rocket2DMn> Hey guys, what did we decide about CategoryDocumentation?
<nhandler> mdke: Since you agreed that we should have a karmic branch for gnome-user-docs, could you possibly create lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/ubuntu-karmic and take care of setting that as trunk?
<mdke> nhandler: I can create the branch but won't set it as trunk, because it isn't :)
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: to get rid of it on the help wiki, over time
<nhandler> mdke: So what is the difference between the lp:gnome-user-docs branch and the lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/ubuntu-karmic branch?
<mdke> nhandler: lp:gnome-user-docs is an import of upstream svn
<mdke> nhandler: ubuntu-karmic and the other ubuntu branches have Ubuntu customisations
<mdke> (and the packaging)
<nhandler> mdke: Oh, ok. And is the lp:gnome-user-docs always in sync with upstream? Or do we manually update it?
<mdke> nhandler: it's automatically synched. But I don't know if that will need to be changed for the move to git
<nhandler> mdke: I thought they had tools (or were making tools) that allowed us to keep bzr branches in sync with svn/cvs/git branches for when archive reorganization comes
<mdke> nhandler: there are lots of bzr plugins around
<mdke> i think cvs and svn are the only ones supported by LP at the moment, but I may be wrong
<Rocket2DMn> alright thanks mdke , so if we are editing pages that have it, just remove it?
<Rocket2DMn> I thought we had reached that conclusion, but I wanted to check
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: yep
<mdke> nhandler: ubuntu-karmic pushed up
<Rocket2DMn> cool, i'm starting to get some solid organization for our summer of documentation.  we will be tracking progress on this page again - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Development
<mdke> great
<Rocket2DMn> The plan in my head right now is to officially start in May since Jaunty will be out by then
<j1mc> :)
<Rocket2DMn> and Gutsy will be EOL
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, did we decide that DocuMENTORS was dead?
<Rocket2DMn> e.g. the ubuntu-doc-students team?
<Rocket2DMn> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc-students
<Rocket2DMn> also have this old team lying around - https://launchpad.net/~wikiforumteam
<missaugustina> Rocket2DMn: I just saw your mention of the DocuMENTORS team.  I joined that on Launchpad.  Is there a different team I should join?
<Rocket2DMn> missaugustina, i'm not sure how it's going down exactly, there was discussion a few months ago about it
<Rocket2DMn> people weren't really getting mentors i guess, but I don't think that team will disappear
<Rocket2DMn> that wikiforimteam probably should though, that is old and unused
<missaugustina> k, I didn't get the impression from DocuMENTORS that it was a one-on-one mentoring deal.
<missaugustina> More like you are "in training" and folks on the list just point you in the right direction.
<Rocket2DMn> yeah i think that is how it is in reality, but i think the original intent was to be assigned a mentor
<missaugustina> yeah, that sounds like a pretty tall order :)
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: I don't think that it should disappear myself, I just think it needs simplifying
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: the way it was implemented was too formal
<Rocket2DMn> simplifying++
<Rocket2DMn> what about that wikiforumteam though?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: I'll scrap the wikiforum team though, you're right
<Rocket2DMn> ok cool
<Rocket2DMn> One of the hardest things I've found about getting involved with the doc team is that there is stuff everywhere
<Rocket2DMn> we've done a good job of organizing it over the last year, but its not perfect yet
<missaugustina> There doesn't seem to be a consistent list of items and who's working on it.
<mdke> missaugustina: the task list?
<missaugustina> Maybe I was looking at the wrong thing?  For instance, Rhythmbox was listed as a to-do but there was someone already working on it.
<Rocket2DMn> where we you lookng missaugustina ?  I'm not sure there really is a good way to mark pages as being worked on, its a community wiki, any page is fair game
<missaugustina> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks
<missaugustina> Under the Kubuntu section there is a table with more details of task status and who is working on it.
<Rocket2DMn> ah ok, you're talking about system documentation (duh, my bad)
<missaugustina> Sorry for the confusion ;)
<Rocket2DMn> I'm not entirely sure how they coordinate working on system docs exactly.
<mdke> it's very difficult to run a table like that because it quickly gets out of date
<missaugustina> It's no biggie, I was just agreeing that as a newbie, it can be challenging because things are a little spread out :)
<missaugustina> Yeah I totally understand.
<mdke> and the rhythmbox one is still an active task because it hasn't been completed
<mdke> but yeah, we can always work on keeping things better up to date
<Rocket2DMn> The sheer number of community doc pages is overwhelming, it is difficult to decide how to proceed with much of this
<missaugustina> Maybe folks working on those tasks could just put their name next to it so people coming to the page know who to contact?
<mdke> yes, maybe. Although the mailing list should always be the first point of contact
<missaugustina> Makes sense to me :)  Thanks!
<mdke> one good way to organise it would be to have a bug for every task, then you can check the bug for the status and current assignee
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, if you want to take the bug route, maybe you want to add a bug link to each community doc page like we did with manpages?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: hmm?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: I was just talking about having a bug for the tasks on our task pages
<Rocket2DMn> ah, that can be done, too
<mdke> what were you suggesting?
<Rocket2DMn> take for example: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/intrepid/en/man1/yelp.1.html
<Rocket2DMn> see that bug link at the top?
<Rocket2DMn> you could do something like that official and community doc pages and have it default to filing against the ubuntu-docs package
<mdke> we have that in the footer of the theme
<Rocket2DMn> ah i see it on the official docs, though it goes to ubuntu-doc project, not ubuntu-docs package
<Rocket2DMn> no such link on the community docs afaict
<mdke> oh yeah. I'd rather encourage people to fix problems in the community docs themselves than collect bugs for those pages
<mdke> but the WikiGuide page contains a link
<Rocket2DMn> does the theme need to be updated to link to ubuntu-docs package instead of ubuntu-doc based on our new bug policy?
<mdke> yes
<Rocket2DMn> do we need to open a bug task for that, or will you just go ahead and do that sometime?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: I thought it had already been done, but for some reason the change isn't working
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: I'm digging into it now
<Rocket2DMn> hmm, i see its ok on https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/newtoubuntu/C/index.html
<Rocket2DMn> seems to just be the homepages
<mdke> ah, DOH
<mdke> thanks Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> np
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, question about a bug i'm working on - bug 352313
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 352313 in ubuntu-docs "Grammar error" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352313
<Rocket2DMn> The bug appears in two places - virutalization.xml and jeos.xml in serverguide
<mdke> ok
<Rocket2DMn> the text is exactly the same in those sections of the documents - how/why?
<mdke> shouldn't it be?
<Rocket2DMn> Well, I'm not entirely sure why documentation is being maintained in two places there
<mdke> oh, it's a substantial section?
<Rocket2DMn> do I need to update both documents?  Or should they be Including?
<mdke> I thought you just meant that the same sentence appeared twice
<Rocket2DMn> yeah its a large part of the document
<Rocket2DMn> or rather, is that virtualization document not correct, b/c looking at the build it is simply a table of contents type page
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: ok, jeos.xml isn't used anymore as far as I can see, it's not included in serverguide.xml
<mdke> sommer: jeos.xml can be removed I guess to avoid confusion
<mdke> good spot Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> i dont see a serverguide.html
<mdke> serverguide.xml
<Rocket2DMn> let me rebuild
<mdke> no, don't bother
<Rocket2DMn> too late
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, should I delete the jeos.xml file as part of my patch/diff?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: we can let sommer do it separately
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, how do we go about that? Email? bug and assign to him?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: he'll take care of it, he's good at irc hilights
<Rocket2DMn> haha ok, i'll make a quick mention on the current bug report when i attach the patch as well
<Rocket2DMn> this leads me to another question then - where is the xml->html filename correlation defined?
<Rocket2DMn> its doesnt appear to be one-to-one or even simple includes
<mdke> there isn't any correlation
<mdke> the xsl stylesheets define what html files are build during the build
<Rocket2DMn> ah, so where are those?
<Rocket2DMn> libs?
<mdke> well, we use standard ones installed by docbook-xsl, with some minor customisations in libs/
<mdke> the names of the html files come from the section id's in the xml
<mdke> so if you have "<sect1 id="video">", then that becomes video.html when we build the html
<Rocket2DMn> ok, so all sect1 definitions become html files then?
<mdke> possibly also sect2, I'm not 100% sure
<Rocket2DMn> the one i checked wasnt a html
<mdke> it depends on to what level of detail you "chunk" the html, i.e. split it into separate html files
<Rocket2DMn> ok, thanks for clearing that up, that helps my understanding quite a bit
<Rocket2DMn> ill have that patch in just a moment, only needed to remove one word :)
<mdke> don't forget to use scripts/validate.sh before you send the patch, that is your best friend
<Rocket2DMn> doin that now
<mdke> so $ scripts/validate.sh serverguide/C/serverguide.xml
<Rocket2DMn> some of the older versions didnt have a document/C/document naming convention, like for Hardy i think
<Rocket2DMn> maybe im confusing myself
<mdke> we've always used that structure
<Rocket2DMn> yeah i just went back and checked
<Rocket2DMn> im running circles around myself, dont mind me
<Rocket2DMn> alright, the patch is uploaded to the bug report
<mdke> thanks
<Rocket2DMn> goin afk, thanks for the help matthew
#ubuntu-doc 2010-04-05
<trijntje> jjesse: if you have a moment, can you check whether this string in the kubuntu-docs is properly formatted? https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/kubuntu-docs/+pots/kubuntu-docs-contact/nl/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=site%3Alists.ubuntu
<jjesse> trijntje can you send me an email: jjesse@gmail.com getting ready to head home and will forget it through irc
<trijntje> jjesse: ill ask here later, its not very urgent
<mdke> trijntje: the line break looks a bit odd, otherwise it seems fine
<trijntje> mdke: I tried using the site:url part on google, but it didnt return anything
<mdke> trijntje: it works for me here. Did you replace the "mailing_list" string with the appropriate name of the mailing list you are searching?
<trijntje> mdke: I did not, thanks. I asked because I was having some trouble parsing that link
#ubuntu-doc 2010-04-06
<sianis> hi
<sianis> I have problem with svg embedding in HTML version of the doc
<sianis> the current version is good on Firefox and Opera, but very ugly under chrome
<sianis> if I change the object tag to img, the chrome can handle, but Firefox not
<sianis> so, does anybody know a "standard" svg embedding method, or I think we should change from svg to png or something else
#ubuntu-doc 2010-04-07
<dawit_> anyone out there ... sort of new here! :
<dawit_> :)
<dawit_> I guess I'll try some other time ...
<bencrisford> hey, im working on a bzr branch for the edubuntu-advocacy team, and im wondering whether i should ask that they only submit images/work registered under a particular free licence?
<bencrisford> i know marketing and docs arent exactly closely related
<bencrisford> but i thought you might know licences :)
<bencrisford> at the moment my readme says to make sure they have the right to distribute them
<bencrisford> the readme in the branch that is
<bencrisford> but should i ask for a free licence as well?
<mdke> bencrisford: the Ubuntu community tends to recommend the cc-by-sa license for that type of material
 * mdke goes to bed, night all
#ubuntu-doc 2010-04-08
<man0riaX> Hello
<man0riaX> Is there anyone up to answer me a few questions? (:
<czajkowski> man0riaX: just ask and if folks can help they will
<man0riaX> I just found that article in the wiki: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Xbox360Media and if I imagine I'm a new and unexperienced user it's quite hard to understand in my eyes
<man0riaX> So I'd like to improve it if I'm allowed to do
<man0riaX> so
<man0riaX> So my question is: Is there anything special to take into consideration when editing pages?
<man0riaX> I mean, some screenshots would be great there andâ¦maybe a more simple guide of how to configure the whole thing, since there's a GUI for that now
<man0riaX> I'm quite new on that and would appreciate every help I can get.
<mvngu__> man0riaX: There is a style guide somewhere, but I can't find it on the community documentation site.
<mvngu__> man0riaX: Oh, here it is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide
<man0riaX> Okay so, I'm free to edit that page when I keep all points of that guide in my mind?
<mvngu__> man0riaX: Sure. Just be careful about your edits. It's a community wiki after all.
<man0riaX> Sure
<man0riaX> I was thinking about contacting the two persons that have already edited it, is this a good idea at all? ^^
<mvngu__> man0riaX: I'm not sure. Perhaps you would like their technical opinion or you want to solicit technical review...
<man0riaX> Okay
<man0riaX> Thanks for answering my questions. (:
<ZachK_> man0riaX: what up
<man0riaX> Not much. How are you?
<ZachK_> man0riaX: Good...I noticed you asking questions about wiki?
 * ZachK_ is the Ubuntu Beginners Wiki FG Lead....
<ZachK_> if you want to join I'll put you on the list
<man0riaX> Yes, I'd like to write a bit ^^
<ZachK_> man0riaX: type /join #ubuntu-beginners-wiki
<man0riaX> If my technical knowledge matches the requirements, sure :D
<ZachK_> hello trijntje and antileet
<antileet> Hey ZachK_ !
<ZachK_> antileet: welcome to -doc!
<antileet> ZachK_, Thanks :) I've been around here for a while!
<ZachK_> antileet: SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!
<man0riaX> Good night everyone
#ubuntu-doc 2010-04-09
<mdke> morning all
<czajkowski> mdke: morning
<newz2000> Hi sommer, Nick Barcet asked me to get in touch with you about server documentation, when you have a moment to chat would you give me a ping?
<newz2000> It is regarding moving some of the technical documentation off of www.ubuntu.com
#ubuntu-doc 2010-04-10
<CryForHelp> hi folks
<man0riaX> Heya
<CryForHelp> ive got a problem here with the drivers
<CryForHelp> of my ati x800 card
<CryForHelp> can you, or anyone else help me
<ian_brasil> how does mallard export to pdf?
<ian_brasil> i hyst saved to a .ps file and then ran gs -q -dBATCH -dAutoFilterColorImages=false -sColorImageFilter=FlateEncode -dNOPAUSE -sDEVICE=pdfwrite -sOutputFile=output.pdf output.ps
<ian_brasil> but it looks awful
<ian_brasil> maybe there is a better way?
<mdke> ian_brasil: best to ask in the gnome-doc channel (#docs on gimpnet)
<ian_brasil> mdke, thx
<DarkwingDuck> mdke: When is Ubuntu switching to Mallard?
#ubuntu-doc 2010-04-11
<Rocket2DMn> hey mdke , are we planning on doing another release of the docs before Final Freeze?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-04-04
 * UndiFineD is the new temporary lead for the UBT documentation FG
 * UndiFineD waves to mattgriffin 
<mattgriffin> UndiFineD: hi :)
<UndiFineD> so I took on the nightmare of tagging help.ubuntu.com
#ubuntu-doc 2011-04-06
<UndiFineD> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UndiFineD/documentation
<peppe84> Hi. I have some problem in order to compiling 8.04 official server guide in italian languages. anyone have experience for this? Istruction are not clear for me...
<peppe84> *compiling in pdf, sorry.
#ubuntu-doc 2011-04-07
<j1mc> hi all
<j1mc> mdke: are you around?
<issyl0> Evening.
<Pendulum> hi issyl0
<issyl0> Pendulum: \o/
 * issyl0 was just looking at the Wiki and forgot she was already in the channel.
#ubuntu-doc 2011-04-08
<jamespage> good morning
<jamespage> please could a member of the documentation team review this for me: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#Documentor resources
<jamespage> we had a few queries in the last server team meeting about how to fix server guide documentation; wanted to make sure this was still correct.
<jamespage> thanks!
<laszlok> Is there a new name for the app indicator area in Unity documentation, or is it still called the "notification area"
<Nero-> hello
<Nero-> I made a change to the documentation
<Nero-> can someone read it to check for errors
<Atamira> you should have emailed it to the mailing list
<Nero-> o
<Nero-> ...
<Nero-> Well
<Nero-> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DynamicDNS
<Nero-> ctrl+f Namecheap & Python
<Atamira> ppl do drop in here, but you'd get a faster reply via the mailing list
<Nero-> k
#ubuntu-doc 2011-04-09
<jbicha> hi, just curious if gnome-user-docs will be upgraded to 3.0 before natty's release
<mdke> jbicha: yes, it will
<j1mc> jbicha: howdy
<jbicha> hi
<j1mc> thanks for your help on the cheese stuff.
<jbicha> j1mc: and thanks for the quick merge
<jbicha> the apt:cheese link doesn't actually launch software center
<jbicha> j1mc: do you know if it's possible for me to push to a bzr branch or do I have to keep emailing patches?
<jbicha> because I would normally do bzr push lp:~jbicha/ubuntu/natty/firefox/fix-for-bug-123456 but that syntax pattern doesn't seem to work here
<j1mc> jbicha: hey... yeah, you can create your own branch.
<j1mc> let me see...
<j1mc> can you try: bzr push:~jbicha/ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/natty-unity/blahblah?
<j1mc> i'm not super-familiar with bzr here myself
<j1mc> jbicha: maybe ask someone in #launchpad?
<j1mc> jbicha: try registering your own branch first... https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/+addbranch
<j1mc> then push your changes to that branch
<j1mc> then propose merging your changes into my branch
<j1mc> that should work.  :)
<j1mc> the owner of the branch could either be yourself or the ubuntu-doc-contributors.
<j1mc> thanks again for your help!!
<jbicha> I was afraid that doing my own branch would be a huge upload, it's over 100MB and still counting
<j1mc> :/
<j1mc> yeah, and bzr is a bit slow, too.
<jbicha> do you know when gnome-user-docs will be getting its next update in natty?
<jbicha> I'd like to see the 3.0 version get in before beta 2 even though our work isn't done
<jbicha> j1mc: ok I posted another small update: https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/+junk/docs-cheese-pt2
<j1mc> jbicha: if you want the latest of gnome user help, you can get it from here: git clone git://git.gnome.org/gnome-user-docs
<j1mc> jbicha: is it an update to the same file?
<j1mc> the same app-cheese file?
<jbicha> yes
<j1mc> i'll take a look
<jbicha> j1mc: I know where I can get it, but natty beta users have a rather broken help
<j1mc> yeah we need to get more ubuntu-specific help in there.
<jbicha> because Gnome did a major cleanup of their Help just before 3.0 was release and we  have the older broken 2.9* version
<j1mc> jbicha: when you click on the apt link provided by the help, it opens the software center to the cheese page, so you don't need to search for cheese.
<jbicha> j1mc: are you using natty, because it doesn't open in software center for me
<j1mc> jbicha: the version that we're working on (in our branch) is the less-broken version shipped as 3.0. but you're right... what people see in natty is older, broken help.
<j1mc> yeah, i'm using natty
<jbicha> j1mc: I'm using the gnome3 ppa but that shouldn't affect this, you don't have any special apturl or software-center installed?
<j1mc> no, just stock natty
<jbicha> I'm wondering why apturl works for you but is broken for me
<j1mc> i'm not sure.
<jbicha> actually gnome3 can break stuff in interesting ways because it migrates settings to dconf but Ubuntu doesn't package for that
<jbicha> I'm going to ppa-purge gnome3 and try again
<j1mc> i've modified the cheese file based on some of your corrections. but i'll leave out the merge.
<jbicha> j1mc: ok, if apturl works for software-center that's a lot better anyway
<j1mc> ok, i've just committed those updates
<j1mc> if you do a bzr revert, and then a bzr merge on your working directory...
<j1mc> you should get my changes.
<j1mc> jbicha: do you know how to view the most recent updates in yelp?
<j1mc> jbicha: pull in my commits, then (from within the top-level directory of your docs...) do  "yelp gnome-help/C/"
<j1mc> without the quotes
<jbicha> j1mc: do you have apturl installed? because now that I've remove apturl, those links open with software-center
<j1mc> let me see
<j1mc> i do not have it installed
<j1mc> they must've removed it for natty.
<j1mc_> jbicha: i need to head out.
<j1mc_> i wouldn't worry so much about the stub pages, but look at some of the existing non-stub pages and make sure they conform to unity.
<j1mc_> that's where we need the most help.
<j1mc_> thanks very much for your help, jbicha   :)
#ubuntu-doc 2011-04-10
<jbicha> j1mc: hi
<j1mc> hi jbicha
<j1mc> i'm reviewing your patch now
<j1mc> sorry, got it last night, but must've half-read it in a slumber
<jbicha> ok, np
#ubuntu-doc 2012-04-02
<benonsoftware> Did anyone just get a strange email from postmaster @ ubuntu.com?
<benonsoftware> lists.ubuntu.com*
<head_victim> I get lots of strange emails from that place. The dangers of moderating mailing lists :/
<jbicha> mdke: hi, thanks for working on the ubuntu-docs upload
<jbicha> I do have a couple more screenshots to take, one involves ubuntu.com which had this April Fools thing going yesterday
<jbicha> and then I guess the rest are at least affected by bug 964325
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 964325 in unity-lens-applications "Regression: Installed apps not sorted alphabetically" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/964325
<jbicha> I guess we don't actually need that fixed though
<skaet> jbicha, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/971603
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 971603 in unity-2d "[unity-2d] UI Freeze exception for HUD redesign to Unity2d" [Undecided,New]
<skaet> just showed up on the radar,   any concerns/impact to the work done so far?
<jbicha> skaet: I believe that change was already done for Unity 3D, as our docs target Unity 3D, any changes to make 2D more like 3D are wonderful
<jbicha> I added my +1 to the bug report
<skaet> jbicha,  coolio.   Thanks.
<mdke> jbicha: thanks. dpm mentioned that unity-overview.png looked out of date
<mdke> anyway I've uploaded the package, you're right that it's better to have things up to date and we can always do more
<jbicha> mdke: cool thanks, the new version looks good, except that we need to do something about yelp not being wide enough by default
<MrChrisDruif> How is internationalisation handled on [wiki/help].ubuntu.com?
<jbicha> MrChrisDruif: it's not :( the theory was that loco's could have the translated Ubuntu help on their own websites
<MrChrisDruif> jbicha; might this be an idea? wiki.ubuntu.com/es <- for Spanish and other codes for other languages ofc. And for the rest the same structure as the normal pages
<MrChrisDruif> Sorry, internet just died again, ugh -_-
<MrChrisDruif> But was I'm talking nonsense jbicha ?
<jbicha> no, adding more organization to the wiki is great, and that sounds like an easy way to add other languages to the wiki
<MrChrisDruif> Should I propose it on the mailing-list?
<MrChrisDruif> If the "rest" agrees maybe invite the loco's to move their locally based wiki's to move to wiki.ubuntu.com?
<jbicha> MrChrisDruif: oh you were talking about the wiki side of help.ubuntu.com? I was thinking the HTML copy of the ubuntu-docs system documentation
<MrChrisDruif> Ghehe, yeah I was talking about the wiki ^_^
<jbicha> if other locos already have wikis, I don't think they need to move them
<peppe84> MrChrisDruif, I like this idea for h.u.c. But our wiki is much big. Is impossible for us migrate all guide and all team's and project page :-)
<jbicha> moinmoin is a pain & their wikis might even be more reliable than the official one
<jbicha> also, it'd probably be easier for searching if they kept their own wiki and didn't have to worry about the overwhelming number of English results
 * jbicha has to log out for a few minutes
<MrChrisDruif> But my idea is universally usable for the html copy of ubuntu-docs system ^_^
#ubuntu-doc 2012-04-03
<peppe84> I made an attempt to build an epub version of ubuntu-docs with a simply "yelp-build epub *.page".  But with fbreader I can't see the image. Is my mistake or a yelp-build limit?
<jbicha> dpm: good morning
<dpm> heya jbicha
<jbicha> dpm: I finished the screenshots yesterday, how did you want to handle asking translators to work on those?
<dpm> I set up an Ubuntu One share and asked translators to just send their files in there. My plan is just to collect them all and send you guys a MP by the translation deadline date. I figured out it would be easier for translators and less work for you guys. Does that sound ok?
<jbicha> dpm: ok, did you want to send a reminder email then?
<dpm> jbicha, yes, let me do that in the next 1h or so
#ubuntu-doc 2012-04-04
<jpds> Folks, why does http://doc.ubuntu.com/ say: "currently under development for release with Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron!" ?
<sagaci> jpds, what links to d.u.c?
<jpds> sagaci: Nothing that I know of, but it's the first thing I go to look for docs in progress.
<sagaci> ah ok
<jpds> (All the work in progress links are out-dated too).
<sagaci> yep, along with the style and adding lubuntu
<jbicha_> jpds: why do you visit that page?
<jpds> jbicha_: "it's the first thing I go to look for docs in progress."
<jbicha_> jpds: right, but it's not been maintained in quite a while, so it's probably a waste of time to check there :)
<jpds> jbicha_: So where can I view the latest precise docs online?
<jbicha_> jpds: well if you speak el, pl, tr or da, you can just visit http://91.189.93.101/
<sagaci> speaking of which, help.ubuntu.com could do with a makeover
<jbicha_> maybe we'll get english too
 * jpds got German, lovely.
<jbicha_> oh good, it doesn't work for me yet
 * jbicha_ doesn't understand why the whole world isn't in English ;)
<jpds> jbicha_: Something about a place called China.
<jpds> And if we all spoke the same language, things would be boring.
<jbicha_> I guess I'm too American, I think there are plenty of interesting things besides having trouble communicating
<dpm> hey jbicha_, just tweaked the http://91.189.93.101/ test site to work better with en-US, does it work for you now?
<jbicha_> dpm: yes, it works now, and using index.html.de for instance is nice too, why don't you blog it?
<jbicha_> it's cool to visualize the translation progress
<jbicha_> dpm: maybe we could just use your setup for https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/ubuntu-help/
<dpm> that'd be awesome
<Cimi> jbicha_, ping
#ubuntu-doc 2012-04-05
<jbicha> mdke: hi, did you want to do another ubuntu-docs upload?
#ubuntu-doc 2012-04-07
<tony> I need help with creating a new page on the Ubuntu User Documentation site. Is this the right place?
<jbicha> tony: probably
<tony> Oh wow, somebody is in here. I figured it out. It had something to do with my account. I created a new launchpad account and then I was able to make a new page with that.
<artnay> hopefully someone can review the whole "Tile windows" section as in its current form it's just misinformation, see bug 975813 and bug 975825
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 975813 in ubuntu-docs ""Tile windows" section contains non-working keyboard shortcut and mentions "Windows key"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975813
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 975825 in ubuntu-docs ""Tile windows" section contains misinformation on how to restore window size" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975825
#ubuntu-doc 2012-04-08
<bodhi_zazen> Just a heads up in this channel
<bodhi_zazen> We would like to (slowly)  shut down the tutorials section down on the forums
<bodhi_zazen> And migrate that activity to the wiki - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1949027
<bodhi_zazen> Any interest in assisting with identifying an migrating tutorials from forums -> wiki ?
<bodhi_zazen> We are also suggesting a link from wiki pages -> forms for support questions.
<bodhi_zazen> It is on the FC agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<bodhi_zazen> we have not set at time for meeting as of yet
<bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11827780&postcount=15
#ubuntu-doc 2013-04-02
<jaysql> hi
<jaysql> any ops here?
<bkerensa> jaysql: What do you need help with?
<Tm_T> jaysql: I don't believe you need ops here (;
<bkerensa> :D
<jaysql> hehe sorry
<jaysql> i was away
<jaysql> i want to volunteer in helping ubuntu with documentation
<jaysql> how do i apply?
<jaysql> Tm_T
<Tm_T> jaysql: I assume one way is just start doing, for example improving wiki pages in wiki.ubuntu.com
<jaysql> so there is no sense of a team that i could join?
<jaysql> likea group sort of thing
<Tm_T> jaysql: I don't know to be honest
<jaysql> ah
#ubuntu-doc 2013-04-03
<geoubuntu> Please give me [UIFe] for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tvtime/+bug/1163770
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1163770 in tvtime "[UIFe] tvtime channel selection menu behavior need to be more logical" [Undecided,New]
#ubuntu-doc 2013-04-04
<Guest72737> Hi , can I use GFS2 in ubuntu? Is it stable?
<Guest72737> And I didn't find it in ubuntu offical document
<Guest72737> so quiet
<jpds> Can someone reopen? https://bugs.launchpad.net/serverguide/+bug/1038612
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1038612 in serverguide "byobu: documentation should refer to tmux" [Undecided,Won't fix]
#ubuntu-doc 2013-04-07
<bkerensa> le sigh
<bkerensa> jbicha: I'm assuming were not going to be doing a raring series for doc?
<bkerensa> jbicha: string freeze and all
<jbicha> bkerensa: well I could but nothing's changed in 5 months, people can just use the quantal branch
<bkerensa> jbicha: yeah the only thing I could see benefiting is that if we had a raring series we could have proper version but other than that
<bkerensa> jbicha: shutdown dialogs?
<jbicha> hmm?
<bkerensa> jbicha: will we mention those in next release?
<bkerensa> jbicha: we could update whats-new.page
<jbicha> bkerensa: yes you or someone else could do that, because we're past docs freeze you'll have to ask the translators but given that they don't have as much work to do this cycle anyway I expect it would be approved if it happens in the next couple of days
<bkerensa> jbicha: I don't have commit
<bkerensa> lol
<bkerensa> and we don't have a series
<bkerensa> if we had the series I could submit merges and get them reviewed
<jbicha> do you need a series? I don't believe we'll be doing more quantal updates?
<bkerensa> true
<bkerensa> so I can just pull the quantal branch and make the changes there yes?
<bkerensa> since those wont go back to quantal?
<jbicha> ok let me make a series...
<bkerensa> jbicha: thx
<bkerensa> grabbing and getting to work now
<jbicha> ok, it's set up now, it will take a little bit of time for the translations to be imported into the raring series
<bkerensa> jbicha: ok I will try and bug you tomorrow when I have some MP's lined up :) sorry I know your busy
<jbicha> translators need to finish their work by the morning of April 16 to make it on the release images
<bkerensa> kk
<bkerensa> jbicha: translations look to be imported in the raring branch
<godbyk> jbicha: Should I take some time to edit/proofread the ubuntu-docs raring or is it frozen for translation?
<jbicha> godbyk: uh you can ask for an exception
<godbyk> jbicha: Okay, I'll take a look at it and see if anything major needs updating.
<bkerensa> godbyk: can you run it by me I am already working on getting some changes in
<bkerensa> I would hate to see us do the same work :)
<godbyk> bkerensa: Sure thing. I was just going to skim through the docs and see if there was anything major out of place.
<godbyk> bkerensa: If we weren't beyond the doc freeze date already, I'd probably do a lot of minor editing as well.
<godbyk> bkerensa: What areas are you working on currently? Do you have a bzr branch I can follow?
<bkerensa> godbyk: well I am updating all references to 12.10 and probably going to do some minor editing
<bkerensa> godbyk: not yet.... I just had jbicha create the raring series earlier today so I have not gotten my first push in yet
<godbyk> bkerensa: If you're doing a bunch of minor editing already, could you also ensure that Launcher and Dash, for instance, are properly capitalized everywhere? They seem to be inconsistent at the moment.
<godbyk> bkerensa: Thanks for that, btw. I had brought up the lack of a raring branch last week but nothing happened.
<godbyk> I was beginning to wonder if there were going to be any 13.04 docs at all.
<godbyk> bkerensa: Have you stumbled across and docs/procedures for what needs to be done when the editing is complete? How are the final changes published (online and as system docs on the ISO image)?
<bkerensa> godbyk: jbicha will have to review them since he can commit them to the branch then myself or he will need to ask the release team for an exception for the changes
<bkerensa> godbyk: https://code.launchpad.net/~bkerensa/ubuntu-docs/raring/
<godbyk> bkerensa: Okay.
<bkerensa> that will be my branch
<godbyk> Thanks.
<godbyk> We'll also have to take the screenshots. There's a script that tries to automate that.
<bkerensa> godbyk: do you know if that needs to be done in a VM?
<bkerensa> godbyk: or a clean install at least?
<godbyk> bkerensa: I don't know that it needs to be, but it's probably easier if it is.
<godbyk> bkerensa: Definitely a clean install.
<godbyk> The script downloads a bunch of example files and will automatically adjust the screen resolution.
<godbyk> Then it'll start opening apps and windows and taking screenshots.
<godbyk> So I'd suggest running it under a VM with a fresh install.
<godbyk> I haven't found any docs for it yet, though, so there may be other setup-related stuff that needs to be done before running the script.
<godbyk> I asked Matthew East about it earlier today on the mailing list. We'll see if he has any pointers for us.
<jbicha> the screenshot script wasn't working quite right for quantal
<bkerensa> jbicha: First MP pending ;p
<bkerensa> jbicha: I will probably stage them bit by bit
<jbicha> bkerensa: I don't think that merge is particularly useful at this point
<jbicha> the 12.10 metadata is just when the files were last checked
<godbyk> jbicha: Is the autogen/make stuff still the proper way to build the system docs?
<bkerensa> jbicha: yeah will be updating whats-new.page with some new stuff in 13.04
<bkerensa> other than that mostly just proof reading
<jbicha> bkerensa: you also changed cite dates, which isn't a good idea
<bkerensa> oh
 * bkerensa reverts
<jbicha> godbyk: probably, have you ever built a debian/ubuntu package?
<godbyk> jbicha: I've build lots of software before using autotools, yeah.
<jbicha> ok but have you built a package before?
<godbyk> jbicha: I've built a couple but it's been eons ago.
<godbyk> jbicha: So I'd have to have the manual or procedure in front of me to do it again.
<jbicha> ok you'll need to build the Ubuntu package as the final step, you can try http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tools/packaging/
<jbicha> and if you need more help, you can ask in #ubuntu-motu or #ubuntu-devel
<bkerensa> jbicha: I can build packages
<bkerensa> ;)
<godbyk> jbicha: Okay, thanks.
<jbicha> after making string changes at this point in the release cycle, you'll need to run regenerate the translation template
<jbicha> I think that's as simple as running 'make pot' inside the ubuntu-help directory
<bkerensa> jbicha: so should we just do the whats-new.page and leave version dates alone and proof read and push those minor changes?
<godbyk> jbicha: Will it cause a lot of churn for translators if we regenerate the .pot file each time?  Are we better off waiting and regenerating the .pot file periodically?
<jbicha> bkerensa: yes, you can update the versions in the actual text too if they need it
<jbicha> godbyk: no I don't think so; otherwise it's even more work for them later on
<jbicha> you only have a couple days to make changes
<jbicha> since the translators are volunteers too, they need a full week to have a chance to do their thing
<jbicha> you don't necessarily need to update the pot after each commit but it doesn't make sense for the translators to translate stuff that's out of date
<jbicha> before making a release you'll have to download the translations and reintegrate those into the bzr branch
<godbyk> 'kay.
<jbicha> I think that is unforunately a manual process since LP uses different names for the files than our branch uses :(
<godbyk> jbicha: Yes. It's the same problem we have with the ubuntu-manual project.
<jbicha> ok good
<bkerensa> jbicha: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bkerensa/ubuntu-docs/raring/revision/205
<bkerensa> Do you think I should mention the new shutdown dialogs?
<jbicha> bkerensa: that's up to you, I don't think they are harder to understand that what we had before though
<bkerensa> ok
<jbicha> godbyk: I don't know what you use to rename the translations, but I wrote a note to myself in the README in lp:ubuntu-docs that might help
<godbyk> jbicha: I'll take a look at it. I have a one-line shell script that I wrote for the manual project.
<godbyk> jbicha: Are all of the .page files currently in use? Some of them fail validation.
<jbicha> yes, you can check ubuntu-help/Makefile.am to confirm but files shouldn't be named *.page if we aren't shipping them (rename them to .page.stub or something)
<godbyk> jbicha: Okay, I'll take a look at the validation issues next.
<godbyk> jbicha: I just submitted a simple merge proposal.
<jbicha> ok, I approved both of those and pushed
<godbyk> jbicha: Thanks.
<godbyk> I'll have to brush up on the Mallard docs a bit to fix these validation errors.
<godbyk> I'm not sure what elements are allowed where at the moment.
<godbyk> (You can run 'for i in *.page; do ./check_validation.sh $i; done' to see the list of validation errors.)
<jbicha> yeah the validator is a bit picky
<jbicha> obviously I haven't run it often enough
<godbyk> jbicha: When and how should the <revision> tag be updated?
<jbicha> whenever you want, you can use it to keep track of what pages need to be looked at and which you're marking as final for a release
<jbicha> see ./check_status.sh
<godbyk> I was playing with check_status.sh. that's what prompted my questions.
<godbyk> So the <revision> tag should reflect which version of Ubuntu/the package the page currently refers to?
<jbicha> it's an indicator of when the page was last touched
<jbicha> once the S cycle starts you might want to bump them all to 13.10 for instance
<jbicha> the ones currently marked outdated are good candidates to be looked at though, but probably next cycle
<godbyk> Should we bump them all to 13.04 now? Most of them are on 12.10.
<godbyk> Fair enough.
<godbyk> I know we're in a bit of a tough spot right now since we're so far behind.
<godbyk> I don't want to cause to much damage at this late date. :-)
<jbicha> you could, like bkerenesa suggested, but it didn't really improve things much to touch every file
<jbicha> it probably wouldn't hurt either though
<godbyk> jbicha: Well, just bumping the version number alone doesn't really do anything for us, it seems.
<godbyk> Is there a script that looks at the pkgname and version to see if that's still the latest?
<godbyk> If it's not the latest, it'd be good to know so we'd know that we need to review that page.
<godbyk> Once that page has been reviewed and updated for the latest version, that revision tag could be updated.
<jbicha> uh, no I don't think so, I believe the only scripts are the screenshot-collectors and the 4 in ubuntu-help/C/
<godbyk> Okay.
<godbyk> I may look at writing such a script in the future.
<jbicha> cool
<godbyk> I probably won't be able to help with ubuntu-docs too much this cycle as I need to finish up the manual work first, but I can probably be more useful next cycle.
<jbicha> godbyk: have you contributed to ubuntu-docs before?
<godbyk> jbicha: Nope.
<godbyk> jbicha: The barrier to entry is fairly high and I didn't feel like jumping through all the hoops.
<jbicha> I'm not sure it's that much higher than the Manual and if it is, maybe you can fix that
<godbyk> Well, it's considerably higher than with the manual project. With the manual project, you just join the team and you can start committing code.
<godbyk> With the docs team, you have to fuss about with merge proposals and the like.
<godbyk> And the documentation for how to work with the docs code is outdated and scattered about.
<godbyk> And when someone does feel adventurous enough to ask on the ubuntu-docs mailing list, they get a somewhat canned response and a list of links thrown at them.
<jbicha> Ubuntu in general has a relatively high barrier for commit access and prefers to work with mp's
<jbicha> I was surprised at how quickly I was able to get commit rights to all of GNOME (but not release rights)
<godbyk> I can understand why, but it does add extra steps between 'doing some work' and 'seeing the results'.
<godbyk> With the manual, we've tried to be as open and non-restricted as possible. So far, we haven't encountered any problems.
<godbyk> There's been no vandalism or anything.
<jbicha> there's been talk about making a new packageset so the docs team can upload new release of ubuntu-docs, xubuntu-docs themselves without needing sponsorship
<godbyk> I keep an eye on all the commits so I can help out new contributors with syntax and style errors, but overall it works fairly well.
<jbicha> we might need a separate docs devel or release team for that then
<godbyk> Of course, the manual doesn't have to deal with packaging and releases like the docs do.
<godbyk> That might make sense.
#ubuntu-doc 2014-03-31
<belkinsa> All, can we try to organize a Global Jam (during it) for the next time since I forgotten about this one.
#ubuntu-doc 2014-04-01
<hikiko> hi dpm
<hikiko> I have to add a few more things in the u-c-c before the 17th...
<hikiko> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1299079 <- I have to implement this or a modified version of this (I am waiting for some feedback from the designers)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1296978 in Unity Control Center "duplicate for #1299079 Screen scaling slider allows the UI to get into an unrecoverable state" [Undecided,New]
<dpm> hi hikiko
<hikiko> hi :)
<hikiko> how are you?
<dpm> hikiko, fine, and yourself? :)
<dpm> how can I help with that bug?
<hikiko> well, I guess I need a freeze exception for that
<hikiko> because I will add some strings in the conf. dialog or whatever I add
<dpm> hikiko, sure, I can review and approve the FFe from the translators side of things, but you'll need to update the bug description to show which strings you'll be adding or modifying
<hikiko> yes, I just don't know yet because we don't have the final design, I ll tell you as soon as I start working on this
<dpm> hikiko, ok, cool, feel free to ping me any time if I can help
<hikiko> thank you :)
<knome> somebody feels like working on a generic wiki page for r/zsync instructions for bug 1004558?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1004558 in Ubuntu QA Website "In download links, link to instructions on using r/zsync" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1004558
<slickymaster> knome, reagrding https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slickymaster/LinksMergeSandbox, after the 17th, do you think you'll be able to manage to get some time so we can deliever it to a safe harbour?
<slickymaster> * regarding
<knome> yep
<knome> definitely
<slickymaster> good
#ubuntu-doc 2014-04-02
<trijntje> Hi all, I want to make dutch screenshots for the ubuntu documentation, are there any guidlines/scripts I can use?
<trijntje> nevermind, I found the script
<elfy> hi - any mailing list admins - you've got a mail stuck in the queue from me re Community Council meeting tomorrow - thanks :)
<belkinsa> I saw the e-mail.  Who should come to this meeting.
<belkinsa> Oh, the reply to my question?  that one?
<elfy> hi belkinsa - I just saw your reply
<elfy> I guess anyone who's able to that can talk to us about what we can do
<belkinsa> Ah, I figured that it would be that reply.
<belkinsa> I might try o make it.
<elfy> I don't know without looking if there was ever any response to the original mail from the team admins
<belkinsa> I think not, since I got your fiy today.
<elfy> yep - ok
#ubuntu-doc 2014-04-03
<belkinsa> pleia2 and GunnarHj, e-mail sent regarding the meetings.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Saw that. Excellent!
<knome> belkinsa, thanks
<belkinsa> Not a problem.
<knome> belkinsa, can you elaborate on why you think we need a council, and what would it "guide" ?
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Same question here. :) What exactly do you mean by council?
<belkinsa> Yeah, I had to leave and never finished that thought.  What I meant by that was that if we had  a council (like the Community) then maybe it would help us to get things done and maybe guide us by meetings and voting in those meetings.
<knome> who would be in that council?
<belkinsa> Ubuntu Members of this team, elected though.
<belkinsa> I feel like there is no governing part of this team.
<knome> how would anybody in that group suddenly dedicate more of their time if they were in a council?
<pleia2> oh no more coucncils please
<belkinsa> Good point.
<knome> pleia2, yeah, to me it looks like pleia2 would be one member in that, and possibly even the chair.. ;)
<pleia2> knome: you're so funny :)
<belkinsa> and I see you a part of it too, knome.
<knome> always!
<knome> yeah, and i don't fancy that image...
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: I think the need of some kind of firm leadership is greater in the sub teams - desktop, server, wiki...
<knome> if we want to do something, that would be to try to clearly specify the different areas where work is needed
<knome> and then try to describe those
<knome> and as GunnarHj said, then try to get leadership to those
<knome> it's easier to commit to leadership of just the wiki team than the whole ubuntu documentation team...
<knome> or even a part of the wiki team; like the PopularPages project proves us
<belkinsa> knome, that can work.  And maybe is needed.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: In any case we have some things to talk about on those meetings. :)
<belkinsa> yup
<belkinsa> Maybe, like what whoever said about a Champion at the meeting, could be the chair for that part of the meeting if the meeting could be split in three sections and the items for each are sub-sections.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Something worth considering.
<belkinsa> Bah, it's time for me to go back home.  At least you guys have food for thought from me.  ;)
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Just a detail: We need those Champions first. :)
<godbyk> pleia2, GunnarHj: I'm sorry I missed today's CC meeting. I had it on my calendar, but was looking at the wrong time zone.
<pleia2> hehe, oops
<pleia2> it went well anyway :)
<godbyk> pleia2: I'm reading the logs now.
<belkinsa> Indeed, it has and it gave me more ideas for the team.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: pleia2 summarized one of the things we talked about in the second para at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2014-April/018834.html
<GunnarHj> godbyk: plus regular meetings
<belkinsa> And I think you should be the driver for the desktop docs.
<belkinsa> Since you are very active in that part of the team.
<godbyk> I think having regular meetings would be very helpful.
<godbyk> The manual project has had cycles with and without regular meetings, and anecdotally, I think the cycles with regular meetings went smoother.
<belkinsa> You know what's funny...I suggested that last year and no one wanted to do them.
<godbyk> If nothing else, the meetings served as a reminder that there's work to do. :)
<belkinsa> Yes, and I think that's the aim of them.
<belkinsa> It works for Ubuntu Women and it should work here.
<godbyk> It's a bit tricky to schedule them sometimes, given how we're spread across a bunch of time zones.
<belkinsa> Right.
<pleia2> belkinsa: we've come a long way in this past year, it's nice that we can now focus on processes and things like meetings :)
<godbyk> But I think monthly meetings are a good idea. Perhaps fortnightly meetings toward the end of the cycle, even.
<pleia2> back then it was all chaos
<belkinsa> Ah, I see.
<belkinsa> godbyk, sure that could work but for only desktop and server docs.
<godbyk> belkinsa: Yeah, that's primarily what I had in mind.
<godbyk> The wiki stuff is kind of an ongoing project. There are no hard deadlines to meet.
<belkinsa> (would be nice)  ;)
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: I can give you some deadlines if you like. ;-)
<pleia2> we could create wiki-based projects for cleanup or topic improvements that have deadlines
<pleia2> might inspire folks to participate if there are clear goals for what needs attention
<belkinsa> Yeah, that would be awesome.
<belkinsa> to pleia2.
<godbyk> pleia2: Yeah.
<GunnarHj> :(
<godbyk> And having wiki jams would work well, too, I think.
<godbyk> If someone organized a list of, say, frequently visited pages that needed to be cleaned up or updated. A list of things for people to work on.
<belkinsa> I tryed for this cycle but I forgot to put down the date.
<belkinsa> Of the Global Jam.
<belkinsa> godbyk, that can work and with popularpages it's possible.
<godbyk> Oh, while a few of you are here, would anyone like to help moderate the ubuntu-docs mailing list?
<godbyk> We get a handful of messages each day that land in the moderation queue.
<belkinsa> Sure.
<godbyk> Most of them are spam.
<godbyk> But a few are ones from people who just aren't subscribed to the list.
<godbyk> (We've had a few more of these recently for FFe and UIFe requests.)
<belkinsa> I saw.
<godbyk> belkinsa: Thanks. I'll get you added to the moderators list then.
<belkinsa> From the ones that were filtered through.
<pleia2> and you can create "jams" that are unrelated to the "global jam" - the global jam is a specific event in the cycle (and comes kind of late for most of our docs aside from wiki)
<belkinsa> Thanks.
<pleia2> tends to be one locos participate in and stuff
<godbyk> pleia2: (Everything comes late in the cycle with regard to docs. ;-))
<belkinsa> Yeah, that was the plan and I think the Global Jam got me thinking the other way.
<pleia2> godbyk: indeed!
<GunnarHj> godbyk: How about simply rejecting messages from non-subscribed posters with an explanation and basically drop moderation?
<belkinsa> Maybe a Global Doc Jam that is mid cycle?
<godbyk> GunnarHj: I'm not sure what our options are. I haven't looked too closely yet.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: But at the moment, I don't want to miss any freeze exception requests.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: It's a Mailman list, right?
<godbyk> GunnarHj: It's something we can consider after this cycle is finished, though.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Yeah.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: If you are an admin, and not just a moderator, you have access to change it.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: But it's a policy thing also, of course.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Something to consider, however, is that we don't want to make it so onerous for people to submit their freeze exception requests that they avoid doing it.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Maybe open at freeze time and otherwise closed?
<pleia2> belkinsa: calling it "global" confuses it with the loco team-focused event, I'd just say it's a "Docs Jam"
<belkinsa> Okak.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: That's a good options, too.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: I mean, in general it's reasonable to require that you are subscribed to a list you post to.
<pleia2> I tend to let stuff go to the moderation queue and just deal with the spam, it's not that much work (and I admin a lot of lists)
<pleia2> people often get confused about subscriptions and things, just give up if they get a reject notice (even one explaining how to subscribe)
<godbyk> pleia2: And the spam I've seen so far has been quite easy to recognize, so it's not too onerous.
<pleia2> godbyk: yeah, I have to look at a message about 5% of the time, the rest are obvious
<GunnarHj> Ok, I'll keep my mouth shut then. I'm not volunteering, though. ;-)
<pleia2> GunnarHj: hehe
<pleia2> GunnarHj: you do make good points, I just don't mind making godbyk do more work ;)
<godbyk> pleia2: Ha!
<pleia2> and with that, back to work for me!
<belkinsa> Just a wonder: do we have enough active members to have two drivers in each sub-team?
<godbyk> pleia2: Thanks, pleia2.
<godbyk> belkinsa: We might barely have enough. :)
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Do we have enough active members to have *one* driver in each?
<belkinsa> Good point.  We have for server and maybe for wiki.
<GunnarHj> server=dsmythies and wiki=belkinsa ?
<belkinsa> Yup.
<belkinsa> If no one has a problem with me being the wiki diver.
<belkinsa> driver*
<godbyk> Normally, I'd volunteer to help with the desktop docs, but I'm a bit swamped at the moment.
<belkinsa> I see.
<belkinsa> Hey, shaunm.  How busy are you?
<GunnarHj> I'm kind of fed up with Ubuntu stuff at the moment, so I would not like to enter that role either, at least not right now.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Btw, I think you'll be an excellent wiki driver. ;-)
<belkinsa> Anyways, I think we should start the monthly meetings next month if possible.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Sounds good to me. With those we can live with the desktop driver role being vacant, especially in the beginning of the cycle.
<belkinsa> Oh, you think it's a good idea to add the contact info to the drivers on the Contact Us page?
<GunnarHj> Absolutely.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: I saw this page accidentally the other day: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams
<belkinsa> And?
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Most teams have a "leader" - the docs team does not.
<belkinsa> I know.  I stated that out when I joined the team.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Possibly we should add a reference there to the page where the sub group drivers are listed?
<belkinsa> Sure.
<GunnarHj> Going to bed now. See you all.
<belkinsa> See ya.
<belkinsa> Should we have a driver for the manual?
<pleia2> we should ask them :)
<belkinsa> Sure.
<belkinsa> On it.
<belkinsa> Sub-team contact info added to this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contact and added this to the teams page also.
<pleia2> are drivers really contacts? I'd much rather have folks still use the mailing list for most stuff and drivers just nudge things along
<belkinsa> Oh.  Good point.
<pleia2> it's fine if the drivers want to be listed as contacts, but I hadn't made the assumption
<belkinsa> No, I did and I shouldn't of done that
<pleia2> no it's fine, just want to make sure we're all on the same page :)
<belkinsa> I removed the e-mail and IRC nick.
<belkinsa> And is this in the right place on the page?
<pleia2> seems fine, we might want to formulate what we want a driver to do exactly
<belkinsa> Okay.
<pleia2> I can respond on list about it, just wrapping up some work things
<belkinsa> Sure.
<belkinsa> I added a bit on what one is.
<belkinsa> pleia2, on the team page, there is a reference to the Wiki team.  Should that be removed since it's now a sub-team of this team?
<pleia2> belkinsa: they've always been a subteam of this team
<pleia2> I think it's still appropriate as is
<belkinsa> Okay.
<belkinsa> Should the other two be added to that list then?
#ubuntu-doc 2014-04-04
<cprofitt> hello all
<cprofitt> been a while, but fantastic work on the wiki
<belkinsa> Hey there.
<belkinsa> As in the PopularPages?
<cprofitt> as in everything the last 30 days... the activity level has been spectacualr
<belkinsa> Has it?  Really?
<belkinsa> Oh, wait.  I'm not an admin and I can;t really see it.
<pleia2> belkinsa: you can just subscribe to all the pages :)
<cprofitt> yeah... at least five edits every day...
<cprofitt> and on some days as many as 20
<pleia2> belkinsa: under settings > notification
<belkinsa> Sigh, I would but that's a lot of e-mails.
<cprofitt> yeah... pleia2 showed me how to subscribe... nothing to do with being an admin
<pleia2> just put this in the big box: .*
<cprofitt> I made a rule that puts them in a special folder.
<pleia2> yeah, I filter them to a folder
<cprofitt> easier to manage it
<belkinsa> cprofitt, are you okay if I'm the driver for the wiki sub-team?
<cprofitt> I am very much OK with that
<cprofitt> I would be OK with making you an editor as well
<belkinsa> As in an admin?
 * cprofitt facepalms
<cprofitt> the new updates made the lock screen issue worse...
<cprofitt> now it locks the screen and never blanks it
<cprofitt> before it would not blank if you locked it manually... but would blank and lock it if it was inactive
<cprofitt> sorry... off-topic, but just updated my testing box
<belkinsa> If it's for the admin, something keeps on turning off from applying and i think it's the notifications.
<pleia2> notifications are completely unrelated
<belkinsa> Oh, I thought they were.
<pleia2> all admin means is you can move and delete pages :)
<belkinsa> Ah.
<pleia2> anyone can subscribe to all or no wiki pages
<pleia2> (I've been subscribed to all for a while, well before I became admin)
<belkinsa> Perhaps I should apply.  But I think I don't have enough examples and that's my other fear.
<pleia2> bkerensa's application is also still hanging out there
<bkerensa> also my app for uploads is coming up
<belkinsa> Maybe that could be a item for the meetings when someone applies.
<pleia2> bkerensa: happy birthday :)
<belkinsa> bkerensa, happy birthday
<belkinsa> cprofitt, going back to when you said hello, you think that my lesson helped people to not fear wiki editing?
<belkinsa> Random thought: I feel like I helped the team to get organized when I joined.
<cprofitt> sorry son called me upstairs
<cprofitt> yes, I think you helped
<CrazyLemon> hey guys
<CrazyLemon> can someone upload 'sl' figures for me? :)
<belkinsa> godbyk, got your e-mail.
<dsmythies> belkinsa: Are you around?
<belkinsa> I am.
<belkinsa> What's up?
<dsmythies> Peter Matulis is the driver of the serverguide project. I have changed the wiki page you all were talking about yesterday.
<belkinsa> Oh, and thank you.
<shaunm> belkinsa: you pinged yesterday?
<belkinsa> Yup, I did, shaunm.  Are you active in the Desktop sub-team of this team?
<dsmythies> trijntje: Are you around?
<dsmythies> trijntje: A couple of days you asked about screenshots for desktop help. Please note that I do not think (but am not sure) the script, collect-screenshots.sh , works. There was some work being done on the script during the 13.10 cycle, but I do not know how that work ended. For the master, or US-English screenshots, I do them manually.
<dsmythies> Were you able to acquire your desired screenshots?
<shaunm> belkinsa: not really. I hang around to help people with mallard and yelp
<belkinsa> Oh, I see.
<dsmythies> shaunm: And many thanks for all your help this cycle. It was very valuable.
<shaunm> sure :)
<shaunm> do you guys know about the open source docs conference I run every year?
<belkinsa> Nope.
<belkinsa> What is it?
<shaunm> http://openhelpconference.com/
<shaunm> two days of part-conference-part-unconference, then there's three days of sprints for any team that wants to stick around
<belkinsa> And it's in Cincinnati.
<belkinsa> That I can come down to.
<shaunm> where are you?
<belkinsa> West Chester, Ohio.  Only 30 minutes north of Cincinnati.
<shaunm> oh my gosh
<shaunm> there are other open source people in cincinnati?
<belkinsa> Don't know.  But can pass it around.
<dsmythies> shaunm: You have mentioned your open source thing to me before. I did not know about it.
<shaunm> well, I mean, there's you
<shaunm> the gnome team is always there for the conference and sprints. if there's a big ubuntu presence, we could get together and discuss what people need out of mallard and yelp
<trijntje> dsmythies: yeah, I noticed that the script does not work at all for dutch, but seemed to work pretty well for english
<trijntje> due to the fact that unity also searches in the translated names of programs
<trijntje> so it opens a whole bunch of wrong programs on a translated system
<dsmythies> trijntje: Were you able to acquire your desired screenshots? Can you do them manually?
<trijntje> dsmythies: It took me quite a while to figure out why it didn't work, so I basically passed the april 3rd deadline without getting any screenshots ;)
<dsmythies> trijntje: I think April 10th (say the day before for any merge proposal) would be the final deadline for screen shots changes, since they have no effect on translations.
<trijntje> dsmythies: i've been thinking about updating the screenshot script to support trusty/different languages. However, I still have a lot of translating before the 10th to do, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to complete the screenshots before that
<trijntje> I have to go now, but I'll probably end up messing with that script trying to fix it even if I dont have time before the 10th ;)
<belkinsa> godbyk, you there?
<godbyk> belkinsa: I'm back now.
<belkinsa> godbyk, I still didn't get any e-mail for the Doc Team's mods and also I have one e-mail to the list that i sent via another e-mail that needs to be accepted.
<godbyk> belkinsa: Okay, I'll look into why you're not getting email notices.
<godbyk> belkinsa: In the meantime, you should be able to moderate messages using this URL: <https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/admindb/ubuntu-doc>
<belkinsa> Alright, it might be a problem on my end.
<godbyk> belkinsa: I noticed that GMail was sending those notifications to my spam folder originally, So you might check that.
<godbyk> belkinsa: Also, I only get one email a day about it.
<belkinsa> I know, but I have Yahoo and it's not letting me to send any e-mails at all.
<godbyk> belkinsa: Finally, I may have screwed something up. :-)  So let me know if you encounter further problems or if you still don't receive notification emails.
<belkinsa> Alright.
<belkinsa> I can get into the page.
<belkinsa> Should I discard or reject the spam?
<godbyk> I discard it.
<godbyk> Discarding a message just throws it away without notifying the sender.
<belkinsa> Alright and ban?
<godbyk> Rejecting a message notifies the sender that their message has been rejected.
<belkinsa> Ah, I see.
<godbyk> Yeah, you can ban the spam, too, though I'm doubtful it does any good.
<belkinsa> Alright.
<godbyk> (They'll likely just send it from another email address next time.)
<belkinsa> All clean.
<godbyk> \o/
<belkinsa> It was three spam and mine.
<godbyk> We tend to get 3-5 messages a day.
<belkinsa> Ah, not that bad as I thought.
<godbyk> Yeah, it could be much worse.
#ubuntu-doc 2015-03-30
<knome> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RedirectedPages
<knome> i just changed all #refreshes with internal targets #redirects
<knome> +to
#ubuntu-doc 2016-04-04
<dsmythies> I managed to get my local copy of the serverguide bzr messed up. I am wanting to get back to a known good point, revision 279. I have tried:
<dsmythies> bzr revert -r 279
<dsmythies> bzr revert --revision=279 --forget-merges --no-backup
<dsmythies> and some other variants, but I can not get to rev 279 and can not merge.
<knome> after the revert command, you should commit
<knome> and the command you should use is the first one you posted
<dsmythies> knome: thanks.
<knome> np
<dsmythies> hmmm... still seems messed up. I am at revno 288 and want to go to rev 279 and forget everything since.
<knome> the revert command should indeed do that
<knome> are you sure 279 is clean?
<dsmythies> Yes, 279 is the master revno.
<dsmythies> I think I'll just start again with a new fresh branch. I was just not wanting to have to waste the time, as download time is significant.
#ubuntu-doc 2016-04-05
<pmatulis> dsmythies: is there a meeting today? in 2 hours?
<pmatulis> and morning
#ubuntu-doc 2016-04-06
<dsmythies> pmatulis: Oh crap. I totally forgot about the regular doc team meeting. I even forgot that I was on IRC, until I unburied this window just now.
#ubuntu-doc 2016-04-07
<pmatulis> dsmythies: well don't worry. i didn't see anything
