#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-29
<troy_s> greetings
<dinda> howdy
<troy_s> ze pilot
<Madpilot> hi
<troy_s> greetz
<Madpilot> gah... tired. Nine hours at work w/ a 90 minute commute each way, new job...
<troy_s> uggh
<troy_s> ugggllleeeee
<dizz1> what is that button under ubuntu logo everywhere?
<dizz1> why?
<dizz1> do you know what i mean?
<Madpilot> which button?
<dizz1> i ve just updated ubuntu and i see the new artwork
<dizz1> on the panel 
<dizz1> near the applications
<dizz1> it must be removed 
<Madpilot> the logo in the top-left corner?
<dizz1> yes
<dizz1> also under system/about ubuntu
<Madpilot> yes
<dizz1> you see it?
<Madpilot> of course.
<Madpilot> why must Ubuntu's own logo be removed from the Ubuntu desktop, anyway?
<dizz1> i think it should be like in gnome
<Madpilot> with the foot instead?
<dizz1> not the logo but the button under
<dizz1> you know?
<dizz1> yesterday it was without a button
<Madpilot> no, I've never used a 'pure' Gnome desktop, only Ubuntu's and a couple of other distro's
<Madpilot> still not sure what you mean by 'the button under'...
<dizz1> there's a square under the logo
<dizz1> the square looks like a button
<dizz1> square as a background
<Madpilot> I'm still running Ubuntu 5.10, and there's no square, just the logo...
<dizz1> oh....
<dizz1> I had to say that
<Madpilot> are you running Dapper?
<dizz1> im using the dapper
<dizz1> anyway
<dizz1> where can i give my suggestins about the artwork?
<Madpilot> the artwork team mailing list is probably best
<dizz1> do you have a link?
<Madpilot> sure, just a sec
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam
<dizz1> you are a member of the ubuntu-art team!
<dizz1> so you are the person who i should talk
<dizz1> my opinion is: remove the square beneath the logo
<dizz1> Madpilot:
<Madpilot> dizz1, can you stick a screenshot up so I can see this square?
<dizz1> yeah!
<Madpilot> dizz1, I'm signing off for the night. Post a screenshot somewhere, and send the URL to the artteam mailing list
<dizz1> Madpilot: thanx for helping
<marcin_ant> guys really don't mess with ubuntu artwork please!
<marcin_ant> this button under ubuntu logo is just ugly - same with thrash icon
<marcin_ant> please revert to previous artwork which was nice and clean
<bersace> Wow
<bersace> i'm testing OpenSuSE 10.1
<bersace> that is so pretty
<bersace> so professionnal
<kwwii> testing gnome or kde?
<kwwii> cause the kde in it is shit
<kwwii> but hey, we all expected that
<kwwii> time for a nap
<lapo_> hi
<bersace> hi
<dholbach> heya
<Who_> hi
<Who_> dholbach: quiet, isn't it :)
<bersace> dholbach: do we still ship gnome-themes ?
<dholbach> yeah, we do
<dholbach> Who_: that's how we get gtk2-engine-pixbuf:   ubuntu-desktop -> gnome-themes -> g-e-pixbuf
<dholbach> so we're happy over there as well
<dholbach> no new depends to do, wihch makes me happy
<bersace> dholbach: wouldn't it be nice to drop gnome-themes except accessibility themes ?
<Who_> dholbach: wow, you gotta be on top of this :)
<dholbach> bersace: no, can't do that - people who upgrade will loose their themes, if they selected them.
<bersace> ?
<dholbach> bersace: we'd remove them under their seat, that doesn't work.
<bersace> if ubuntu-desktop does not depend on a package, it will be removed ???
<Who_> dholbach: does it hurt to make ubuntu-desktop depend on pixbuf?
<bersace> Who_: agree
<dholbach> Who_: it depends on gnome-themes, which depends on pixbuf, so there's no need for that
<Who_> dholbach: okie, I was just thinking about dropping gnome-themes in the future, but I guess that isn't likely to happen...?
<dholbach> bersace: Matt asked us to not do last minute seed changes (which change ubuntu-{desktop,minimal,...}
<z_diver> dholbach: how about the nuoveXT icons?  Is there any problem with including them?
<dholbach> no, I fear not this time
<dholbach> z_diver: where are those? it's a complete new icon set to get on the CD?
<bersace> dholbach: of course, that is more intended for edgy
<dholbach> bersace: ok, let's discuss it then.
<bersace> that would be nice to have Artteam selected theme only including an accessibility theme
<z_diver> dholbach: yes, both industrialXT and GrayXT count on them
<z_diver> I can send them to you.
<z_diver> dholbach: but is there space
<dholbach> bersace: that doesn't work either. we need *all* of the themes, as disabled people have different impairements. there is no "one size fits all" theme for them.
<dholbach> z_diver: there is no space, not at all.
<bersace> dholbach: you mean that we need several accessibility theme ?
<dholbach> I wasn't aware of the new icon and it's far to late to package it and get it approved for main, included in the seeds etc.
<dholbach> bersace: yes.
<bersace> that's not the problem, 
<z_diver> dholbach: OK.  we need to alter the depency then
<dholbach> bersace: you can ask on ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com about that.
<dholbach> z_diver: in which way? what do you propose?
<z_diver> dholbach: change both those to use the Human icons in the metatheme file
<dholbach> I don't mean to be rude or anything, but I'd have been happy with all this kind of information some days ago :-/
<bersace> i want to drop Grand Canyon, Glider, Mist, Ocean Dream, Simple Smockey Blue and Traditionnal
<Who_> Summary of themes and dependencies; GrayXT: Pixbuf (ubuntu-desktop-->gnome-themes); LegacyHuman: Clearlooks (ubuntu-desktop); DapperDrake, Silicon, Human: UbuntuLooks (ubuntu-artwork); Resilience: Smooth (ubuntu-desktop)
<dholbach> z_diver: is that something the other people hit me for?
<dholbach> bersace: drop as in how?
<bersace> ?
<bersace> do not ship it by default.
<dholbach> ask on ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com about that.
<z_diver> dholbach: I don't think this was done on time and it's a big mess now.
<lapo_> dholbach: andreasn is planning an accessibility icon theme for edgy and i think I'll help him
<dholbach> lapo: that sounds marvellous
<dholbach> z_diver: I perfectly agree.
<z_diver> dholbach: I guessed the nuoveXT icons were too big in the begining
<bersace> dholbach: i just want to know if the artwork team is the team that decide which themes are shiped (except accessibility theme which are choosed by accessibility team)
<dholbach> z_diver: does Human fit with that?
<Who_> dholbach: Do you have the email I sent you with the original GraXT themes - it linked to the NuoveXT icons
<z_diver> dholbach: not great.
<dholbach> bersace: it has to be in accordance with everybody else.
<z_diver> dholbach: Let me have a look for althernatives.
<sabdfl> hi all
<dholbach> Who_: I can't package and get them on the CD now - it's too late for that.
<Who_> dholbach: okay, so we need to change the Gray and Industrial themes to use some other icons?
<dholbach> Who_: we already had to drop language-packs and make room for the 2,5 MB of artwork.
<dholbach> Who_: yes, for Dapper.
<z_diver> Who_: Yeah, we need to find something on there that will look nice and work.
<Who_> dholbach: okay on to it now
<dholbach> Who_: things would have been different some days or weeks ago, but it's a bad time to get a new icon theme packaged, approved for main, added to the seeds and other stuff remove for it.
<Who_> Anyone know which icon themes we have by default on the CD
<dholbach> tango, tangerine, human, gnome
<Who_> dholbach: is there the possibility of having NuoveXT somewhere in the repos?
<Who_> okay, I'm gonna go with Tangerine for GrayXT, and Gnome for IndustrialXT
<Who_> any objections?
<Who_> in fact, Tango for Industrial, cos we don't have that anywhere else as selectable
<dholbach> Who_: I think it's too late for nuoveXT - I'm very busy with the Dapper release
<z_diver> Who_: How about Tango for Industrrial
<Who_> dholbach: okay. Edgy it is :)
<Who_> z_diver: great minds....
<z_diver> Who_: blue and blue at leat
<z_diver> Who_: least
<Who_> z_diver: see above :) I agree
<bersace> hello sabdfl !
<dholbach> can you drop me a quick mail with the changes I need to do for the icons for the themes?
<z_diver> dholbach: sure thing
<bersace> i just want to know if the artwork team is the team that decide which themes are shiped (except accessibility theme which are choosed by accessibility team)
<lapo_> what is tango for industrial?
<dholbach> z_diver: thanks
<Who_> dholbach: will do. Is it too much to rename GrayXT and IndustrialXT as they no longer ahve any XT to them?
* bersace reposted to sabdfl
<z_diver> lapo: I think it may work
<dholbach> Who_: we have industrial already in the archive, for grayxt we have to hope that nobody uses it already
<dholbach> Who_: which means, that I'm not so happy about changing the names now
<Who_> okay. I'll keep them
<dholbach> ok thanks
<Who_> dholbach: - or add a Tangerine to the end or somethin - I guess the folder structure has to be redone anyway?
<dholbach> Who_: I'll take care of the directory issues of the themes
<Who_> sholbach: it is essential that the name of the directory matches the name in the index.theme file - that is how the names of the themes are done - if you change the directory name you must also change the name of the gtk theme in dirname/index.theme
<Who_> dholbach: it is essential that the name of the directory matches the name in the index.theme file - that is how the names of the themes are done - if you change the directory name you must also change the name of the gtk theme in dirname/index.theme
<lapo_> tangerine and tango-icon-theme follow the tango style guidelines, so for an original theme we could just ship a minimal set of icons (let's say folders, trashbin, and some other random stuff) done following the guidelins
<lapo_> and iherits the rest from tango or tangerine
<z_diver> lapo: That's a nice idea.
<lapo_> something similar to what windows95 plus pack did
<lapo_> z_diver: it is what we will be do for gnome themes probably
<dholbach> Who_: according to the quick look I had on the gconf keys, it's the name - but i'm sure at some point it needs to be resolved to the directory it's in. so better not mess with it now.
<z_diver> lapo: for all of them
<dholbach> please drop me a mail with all the icon decisions for the themes and i'll get it done with the next upload.
<lapo_> surelly "crux refresh" I'm working on with thos will use a minimal set of tango style icons
<Who_> dholbach: ok
<lapo_> well the "crux refresh" thos is working is more correct :-)
<z_diver> lapo: but the four themes listed above will be complete won't they?
<lapo_> z_diver: dunno about those theme sorry
<bersace> dholbach: about g-e-pixbuf, is ubuntu-desktop or ubuntu-artwork that actually need it ?
<Who_> lapo:I have IconTheme=Tangerine in my metatheme but it seems not to work, any ideas?
<Who_> lapo: my mistake" I don't have them installed!
<dholbach> bersace: i'll think about it
<z_diver> Is it true that tango, tangerine, human and gnome icon sets are to be included in full?
<Who_> ok - anyone ready to test these themes? I need an opinion on whether Tangerine is OK with Gray too, not just to know if they work
<z_diver> Who_: I have about 5 minutes ;)
<Who_> okay :)
<z_diver> Who_: are you sending somethign or do you want me to test what I have here.
<Who_> I am sending...
<Who_> My current thinking is that GrayXT looks better with Gnome icons than Tangerine - opinions?
<Who_> Anyone?
<bersace> Who_: wait
<z_diver> Who_: Something should change.
<Who_> z_diver: go on...
<z_diver> Who_: I think the window border is too light and doesn't stand out
<z_diver> Who_: I'll test with the gnome icons now.
<z_diver> Who_: I do like the Industial with Tango.  Nice.
<Who_> dholbach: urrm... I assume neither tango-silicon nor Gion icons are included either - I just checked the other that are supposed to be included, Dapper-Drake uses Gion and Silicon uses Tango-Silicon... :S
<dholbach> urg urg urg
<Who_> z_diver: I know we are making changes but I would l;ike to stick to what was voted on as closely as possible...
<dholbach> we need this adapted to the "real world"
<Who_> dholbach: okay - there is no space for any more icons, right?
<z_diver> Who_: I realize that too.  It was just a thought.
<dholbach> Who_: no there isn't and I don't have time to package it up for universe or whatever, i'm sorry
<z_diver> Who_: I think grey needs some color.  I like the Tangerine icons
<Who_> dholbach: OK - just in case - Gion is only a 314 k download (it falls back on to Tango)  - any chance?
<dholbach> no, not the time, really
<Who_> dholbach: shall I get those in IRC to choose an icon set already included for each theme or do we need to axe a theme or two?
<dholbach> it takes time to get it 1) packaged, 2) approved as a package including licensing etc, 3) to get it through security review, 4) approved for main, 5) added to the seeds (to appear in ubuntu-desktop
<z_diver> dholbach: Which brings up the point that Dapper-Drake needs Gion
<dholbach> there's no time for new icon themes, really not
<troy_s> greetz all.
<z_diver> dholbach: So that nees to be changed too.  BVC will want to choose it.
<dholbach> so either you decided on a theme, which looks good or you axe it
<dholbach> it's your call
<z_diver> I think we understand that now
<dholbach> and I know it makes people unhappy, but that's how life is ~2 days before relase
<dholbach> and i'm very busy
<dholbach> really
<dholbach> sorry.
<bersace> Who_: about Gray, maybe Tango-noir :)
<Who_> troy_s: we are having a bit of a crisis - no space for new icon themes so either we axe a theme or assign an icon set out of Tango, Tangerine, Human or Gnome to apply to theme
<Who_> dholbach: I think we all know this is really our fault for not getting things done sooner :)
<bersace> Who_: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=38964
<dholbach> Who_: thanks.
<troy_s> hrm...
<troy_s> axe a theme then
<Who_> bersace: it is _really_ clear there is _NO way_ we can inlude new icons ...
<dholbach> I don't want to appear with a picture on the art team's dart board. :-)
<troy_s> daniel, everyone knows or should know that you work like a bloody dog.
<Who_> dholbach: since we haven't even made a debs for our themes I think that would ba a bit rich
<troy_s> so the options are axe or borrow?
<z_diver> troy_s: pretty much
<bersace> Who_: of course.
<Who_> so people: the themes we currently have problems with are Dapper-Drake and Silicon What are we going to do?
<Who_> Silicon is Mikkel, Dapper Drake is Billy, I believe...right?
<z_diver> troy_s: bvc is going to want to pick for Dapper I bet
<z_diver> Who_: right
<troy_s> squeaky wheels always prevail for some reason.
<troy_s> had we had launchpad in order
<Who_> well we have very limited time - can we get hold of bvc so quickly?
<Who_> troy_s: later! we need to work this out now
<troy_s> we could have it polled and done.  but now it is going to seem a little undemocratic.  this leads me to believe that once again,
<troy_s> well just vote.
<bersace> troy_s: dapper is not democratic, edgy will
* bersace hope so
<troy_s> it's not terribly democratic, but daniel needs a solution
<bersace> :)
<bersace> drop unusable theme
<Who_> So: Dapper-Drake who votes to axe it, who votes for new icons?
<troy_s> bersace:  at our current structure level, it is going to be the same
<troy_s> axe
<troy_s> two votes for axe
<Who_> axe
<troy_s> three votes for axe
<troy_s> who else is alive?
<z_diver> axe wht
<z_diver> We still need to pick themes
<z_diver> or at least icons themes
<Who_> axe Dapper-Drake cos it has no icons
<troy_s> axe
<z_diver> What do we have left?
<troy_s> yes... go with the ones that are most complete seems to make the most sense
<Who_> sorry troy_s - I was explaining to z_diver
<troy_s> who:  with you brother.
<Who_> Now Silicon: I propose we keep but use Human or Gnome icons
<z_diver> Dapper can use Human icons
<Who_> too bright?
<bersace> Resilience is not shipped
<troy_s> someone mock up a quick wiki
<troy_s> or at least provide links.
<troy_s> someone got the links?  i am half baked awake here... morning.
<z_diver> I'm on my way to work so I can't do it.
<z_diver> I'll vote if there is a change
<z_diver> chance
<Who_> ok. I'll get a wiki page up
<bersace> Silicon is not shipped too .
<bersace> :S
<z_diver> I thought I saw both Silicon and Resilience
<troy_s> erk!
<troy_s> well what way are you leaning now z before you are off?
<troy_s> at least you had a bit of a say
<troy_s> cuz resolution has to happen in how long daniel?  one hour?
<troy_s> half hour?
<z_diver> I'd like to find appropriate icon sets from the four available, tango, tangerine, humman and gnome and be done with it.
<troy_s> dissolving kickstart artwork team now cuz mark added more admins
<troy_s> thank god.
<z_diver> deleting themes seems like hard on users, while new themes entirely seems like more work.
<z_diver> so patch up the ones we have
<z_diver> I do have to run.  I'll leave my vote as that.  Good luck.  If I have a chance I'll check back in.
<z_diver> AND THANKS TO ALL
<troy_s> so everyone is leaving, who you still here bro?
<Who_> ok, wiki page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content/DapperThemes_OLD
<Who_> troy_s: we need to make a decision on this really soon so Daniel can package in time
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> and the mailing list is going nuts
<Who_> nuts?
<Who_> what kind of nuts?
<troy_s> completely bonkers
<troy_s> um like 50 mails
<troy_s> in about 3 seconds
<Who_> I haven't got them yet!
<Who_> in response to my email?
<troy_s> i will launchpad
<troy_s> the poll...
<troy_s> is it as you have it there who?
<troy_s> for what it is worth, even though it won't get done correctly...
<Who_> can you link me?
<troy_s> hold.
<Who_> Troy: I see no mails to the list about it...? maybe gmail is slow?
<troy_s> who
<troy_s> can you tell me:
<troy_s> we must axe how many
<troy_s> and how many stay?
<troy_s> quick... i want to get it up.
<troy_s> Who?
<Who_> we need to axe none! we need to decde which icons to apply to each theme
<Who_> or to axe them
<Who_> look at the wiki page, it more or less explains
<Who_> troy_s: are there replies to my email on the mailing list? cos if not then we need to do something - no-one has edited the wiki...
<troy_s> dammit
<troy_s> this polling thing would be nice if i had like six minutes to get the damn thing out.
<troy_s> time issues... working.
<troy_s> pascal
<Who_> kelpas: Ideas on the themes and icons?
<klepas> keep Tango, Tangerine and Human
<Who_> I need to do it now cos Daniel needs the decisions and files
<klepas> i don't mind about the rest particularly :)
<Who_> we do keep the cions we have to apply icons to themes
<klepas> and i'm off for some much needed sleep
<Who_> okay, can you just add your name to the wiki for each option before you go?
<klepas> as it's getting earlier by the minute and i've got classes today :)
<klepas> sure
<Who_> you know which page?
<Who_> troy_s - could you get your name on the wiki too, please?
<troy_s> yah...
<troy_s> ok it was brutal and it sucks, but launchpad now has a poll listed.
<troy_s> lord knows that i was supposed to understand how to to it from the outset with no prior knowledge.
<Who_> now we have two polls - does that help?
<klepas> and no options :)
<klepas> and no permission to add any
<klepas> bah
<klepas> ah well
<klepas> i'll add my name in the wiki
<klepas> as i really need to be off
<Who_> I still see no options. Can we _please_ just use the wiki for now
<bersace> Who_: we vote using the wiki ?
<Who_> I'd like it to be like that
<klepas> yea
<Who_> the wiki works no whereas Launchpad will take some time
<klepas> just this one last time
<troy_s> launchpad is done
<troy_s> not correct
<troy_s> but done
<troy_s> i guessed on the times...
<troy_s> life moves on
<troy_s> i at least knew where the hell to go with it.
<Who_> Please note that IndustrialInspirate looks really good with Tango :)
<troy_s> blah... just make a decision.  daniel needs one.
<troy_s> at this point, it is completely throwing darts at a board.
<Who_> I have :)
<troy_s> (well a little better than that, but alas, crisis)
<klepas> what is this T.I.F.O?
<bersace> Who_: voted
<Who_> troy_s: I'm just trying to sway the directino of your darts :)
<Who_> bersace: Thanks :)
<bersace> shit
<bersace> someone vote during me :)
<troy_s> Yah i just put use use use...
<troy_s> laf love the wiki for crisis laf.
<bersace> klepas !!!!! :)
<klepas> sorry, these tables are annoying
<klepas> there we go
<klepas> :)
<klepas> all happy now
<Who_> bersace: I can't see your votes yet?
<klepas> as i was editig
<klepas> bersace: go for it now :)
<bersace> :)
<troy_s> tables are annoying, but this structure is worse :)
<troy_s> see where i was going the last week or so pascal?
<troy_s> and finally mark stood up so hopefully people will listen now.
<bersace> job done
<klepas> :)
<Who_> cool
<troy_s> poke poke
<klepas> alrighty, that's it for me.
<troy_s> thanks for at least trying pas.
<klepas> huh?
<Who_> thanks bersace
<bersace> i find that voting with a wiki is quite ugly
<klepas> interesting...
<klepas> revision problem.
<klepas> one moment
<klepas> no one editing i hope as i fix a vote
<Who_> guys, I have to step out for 15 mins, but I'll be back - I have a feeling it's gonna fall to me to do the final pre-packaging for sending to Daniel (as in I told him I would )
<Who_> but I still don't see anything on the ML!?
<klepas> well i am off
<klepas> sleep
<klepas> cheerio folks
<Who_> seeya
<troy_s> who run with it... at least you are here.
<bersace> troy_s: do you wanna icons and hackergotchi for ubuntu-art  on launchpad ?
<troy_s> yah i'll get to that...
<troy_s> scrambling... must make coffee for wifey
<bersace> Who_: hh ! : http://wikipoll.free.fr/mediawiki-1.6.5/index.php?title=Main_Page
<troy_s> well this sucks
<troy_s> i can' t add ubuntu-art mailing list as a contact until it gets confirmed... and i think the spam trap caught it.
<troy_s> grr.
<bersace> i also tryed it for ubuntu-artwork :)
<troy_s> did the spam trap catch it ber?
<bersace> yes
<troy_s> feck
<bersace> i never received any mail
<troy_s> welp pretty sure that henrik can force it.
<troy_s> needless to say, we are going to need more admins...
<bersace> i think so
<bersace> admin can't make admin ...
<troy_s> i think they can
<troy_s> actually...
<bersace> troy_s: all you want : http://bersace03.free.fr/pub/Ubuntu/Artwork/Team/
<troy_s> nope
<troy_s> yer right
<troy_s> only owner
<bersace> hh
<troy_s> and our owner is a little ... lax
<troy_s> thanks ber...
* troy_s is out.
<troy_s> etienne
<troy_s> can you update the wiki link to point to the ubuntu-art launchpad team now
<troy_s> i obsoleted the other one
<troy_s> although more work needs to be done of course.
<bersace> k
<bersace> troy_s: avoid "here" link every were
<bersace> people have to read entire sentense in order to understand the links
<bersace> that's anoying
<bersace> and google don't read the sentences before "here"
<Who_> tory_s: Can I confirm something please: I ahve had 1 reply to the mail Urgetn: Themes and Icons - hoave you had loads?
<Who_> troy_s: see above - typo on the name :)
<bersace> troy_s: Mark set 3 administrator. They seems to be that core of Art Team Leader
<bersace> don't expect more admins :)
<troy_s> well i asked him
<troy_s> because let's see... i don't know franks aptitude with launch tech etc
<troy_s> joel is ...?
<troy_s> and i am a busy bugger.
<troy_s> so we need more.  period.
<troy_s> who:  if you package, go with your guts.  less is more.  more is bugs.
<bersace> troy_s: we should avoid discussion on wiki
<troy_s> it has to get done, and you appear to be in a position to do something about it.
<bersace> such as https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Meetings/Agenda
<troy_s> ber:  we need to formalize in document form how stuffs gets done.
<troy_s> that is a paper trail -- it should be a byproduct of the mailing list
<bersace> That's really annoying
<troy_s> yah but it needs to be documented and centralized.  everyone has been very nonchalant about the whole mess up to mark stepping in and saying we need guidelines etc...
<troy_s> something i have been harping on for oh... a while.
<bersace> troy_s: yes, i also ask for guideline for some weeks ago ...
<Who_> OK, I'm gonna do the packaging in 20 mins
<Who_> I think we all knew we need a clear leader - I think Mark thought Joel was the leader
<troy_s> joel is not the leader, he is the owner of the launchpad team
<troy_s> if you do a little leg work you can see that...
<Who_> megabyte405: anything to say on the Icons/Thmese front
<troy_s> and owners (if you run a test team) have ultimate control over the team
<megabyte405> I'm updating now to see waht they look like
<megabyte405> that's why I came in
<troy_s> icons/themes are a lot of work.  we need to target things specifically.
<Who_> troy_s: yea, I know that! I just think Mark saw him as the leader of the team...
<troy_s> who:  i don't believe so.
<troy_s> who:  mark has been harping on about leadership now for a while, and NOTHING has gotten done.
<Who_> updating isn't going to work, there is a big bug that we will sort out at the same time as fixing the icons problem
<troy_s> I tried to restructure the wiki a little better and the only things I see for it in the mailing list is gripes from b.
<troy_s> meaning we need design docs
<troy_s> and an orderly way to get things put on the mailing list etc...
<Who_> troy_s: ahh, well ok then - I only joined about 3 months ago, maybe fewer...
<troy_s> ok outt for family.
<Who_> megabyte405: have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content/DapperThemes_OLD
<megabyte405> it would be really great if there actually was an orgazational structure - using launchapd and whatever tools we haven't so it's not a freeforall for 5 months - I know someone mailed against that idea, but i think it's quite important.
<megabyte405> yeah
<dinda> <-- new member hoping to help next time around :)
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> in a community
<troy_s> EVERYONE contributes
<troy_s> a little
<troy_s> i am going to be too busy to keep everyone on the same page.
<troy_s> but i will hopefully get a few fundamental docs in place
<troy_s> everyone right now can help out by shushing and trying to at least attack a few tasks on the tasks page
<troy_s> because i can't do that work, so i need help.
<troy_s> deal?
<troy_s> that means everyone in here steps up and does some work.
<troy_s> thanks for your help.
<troy_s> (legwork thru mailing list would be a good start)
<troy_s> then at least we have centralized a few items.
<megabyte405> still care for any thoughts on the themes here quickly?
<troy_s> themes?
<troy_s> in what respect?
<troy_s> they are a huge deal
<megabyte405> the icon sets
<troy_s> well hopefully we can attack them in detail with a little more structure.
<Who_> yeas please :)
<megabyte405> industrialinspirate == industrialXT?  if so, then tango
<Who_> cool
<Who_> megabyte504: can you add your names to the wiki page?
<megabyte405> ok
<Who_> troy: about the close icon bug, the icond dude (canonical hired) will deal with it
<Who_> the website should be dealt with by submissions to Henrik who who will chose what he wants
<Who_> megabyte405: you done?
<megabyte405> just about
<Who_> megabyte405: I see no votes but I'm gonn have to make the packages very soon
<megabyte405> just hit save
<Who_> megabyte405: sorry to push you - but I feel sorry for Daniel who has to package iot before release!
<troy_s> add your names to launchpad
<troy_s> as well
<megabyte405> Yeah, I know
<megabyte405> Just got up
<troy_s> daniel does a ridiculous amount of work
<megabyte405> yeah, did so already
<troy_s> we also need to locate people who can pacakge
<troy_s> who you know what youa re doing
<troy_s> so maybe start documenting HOW you do it in the wiki in content
<troy_s> i'll edit it later.
<troy_s> okie?
<megabyte405> there it's all up
<Who_> lol, I'm making theme tarballs, not deb packages :)
<Who_> but I can write up how to do that, though there are lots of good tutorials I could link to
<troy_s> well no one knows how
<troy_s> and there wont be one person who can do it
<troy_s> i dont mind editing
<troy_s> even how to tarball is handy
<troy_s> people need knowledge to particpate
<troy_s> like even i don't know what composes a theme in total, so maybe list the items?
<Who_> okie, after I've done these
<troy_s> great
<troy_s> and _that_, as insignificant as it seems, is progress
<Who_> megabyte405: lol, look what you've done! it's a draw for Silicon and Dapper Drake. We're gonna have to wait for another voter
<megabyte405> oops
<megabyte405> I didn't think it was going to be a draw...
<Who_> lol - worry not :)
<megabyte405> let me look again
<Who_> I think it's best we just wait - no need to change
<bersace> Who_: i may change my mind if needed :)
<megabyte405> oh, yeah, sure enough
<megabyte405> I didn't really pay attention to the axe column, since I think they are nice themes
<Who_> well, give it 5 mins
<Who_> dholbach: you still around?
<dholbach> yes, but incredibly busy
<troy_s> don't think about nice
<troy_s> think about hte implications if we stick things in that are untested
<troy_s> my humble 2 pennies
<troy_s> bugs come up, and we all look bad ...
<troy_s> it is better to include nothing and have it work than much and cause problems for the next cycle doing nothing but fixing.
<Who_> dholbach: how is it easiest for me to give you the fixed themes, as one tarball with the folder structure that needs to be in /usr/share/themes already there or as individual theme tarballs?
<dholbach> fixed themes?
<Who_> dholbach: the them files with the icons that we don't have changed
<Who_> dholbach: getting rid of the references to icons we don't have and replacing theme with ones we do
<dholbach> yeah send me a tarball
<bersace> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ship-selected-desktop-theme
<Who_> OK, I'd love it if someone could test these fixed up themes for me
<Who_> They work here but this is a get-it-right-first time situation!
<Who_> troy_s or bersace, want to change your vote for DapperDrake to swing it either to axing, Human or Tango?
<bersace> Tango
<Who_> ok
<bersace> ah no
<bersace> this is for Silicon
<bersace> Who_: I change for Silicon to Tango
<troy_s> treat all my votes towards axeing
<troy_s> period
<troy_s> too little too late
<troy_s> hopefully that swings it.
<Who_> troy_s: you just created anoter draw on Dapper Drake
<bersace> i updated my vote
<bersace> on the wiki
<Who_> thanks
<troy_s> who's doing the work, he is the final arbitrator
<Who_> bersace:not for DapperDrake, I fear
<troy_s> the default install is the most important
<bersace> i just changed Silicon
<troy_s> and it is there.
<troy_s> the rest are on the periphery
<bersace> i still want to drop DapperDrake
<Who_> okay, troy does to so it's going bye-bye
<Who_> bvc will _not_ be happy
<troy_s> life moves on
<bersace> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content/DapperThemes_OLD?action=diff&rev2=17&rev1=16
<troy_s> i would rather have NONE at half ass
<troy_s> than sixteen
<bersace> Who_: viper550 is also unhappy, i guess
<Who_> why? was it his?
<troy_s> its too fricking late to be worrying abou tfeelings
<troy_s> we need decisiveness at this point
<bersace> ^^
<troy_s> whatever is 'close' we run with who...
<troy_s> you are doing the work, so put aesthetic judgement aside and figure out what is close to 'finished'
<Who_> troy_s: if you stand up for that on the list, I'll go with it
<troy_s> and use that as a final arbitrating vote.
<troy_s> i'll back any decision you make
<troy_s> if you think they aren't finished
<troy_s> leave them out
<troy_s> if you think they are
<troy_s> then go with it.
<troy_s> we need some bloody democracy
<troy_s> and YOU are doing the work.
<bersace> i revert my vote
<bersace> :D
<bersace> note that according to Mark, we should consider the vote of leader weighted than others
<troy_s> we don't have a leader
<Who_> bersace: can I get this clear, you want to get rid of silicon, cos that is one of the ones that looks better now
<bersace> Who_: sorry for confusion
<bersace> troy_s: we have 3 leaders
<bersace> the 3 admin mark select
<bersace> troy_s: you included !
<bersace> Who_: i want to drop Silicon because it does not have decent icon set
<Who_> okay
<bersace> according to https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art, our core team leader are Andreas, Frank and Troy
<bersace> That is the sabdfl choice :)
<Who_> I think after the meeting he will fix it to the leaders we as a team choose
<troy_s> mark has been clear
<troy_s> he wants the organization and structure to come OUT of the community
<troy_s> he won't do the dictator thing unless it is causing him grief
<troy_s> which today, hit a hilt regarding this issue.
<troy_s> I consider myself as nothing more than an admin on launchpad, and i have already made it clear that we need more.  
<troy_s> THAT said
<troy_s> we are in a crunch
<troy_s> and unfortunately, as the guy who is packaging.
<troy_s> and willing ot package
<troy_s> who you get a pretty big vote.
<troy_s> ber has made his thoughts clear... pascal had a vote. etc
<troy_s> unfortunately, due to lack of structure, it is going to be flawed.  period.
<troy_s> we just need to run with what we have and work from there.  that's all there is to it.
<troy_s> who:  whats the current state of affairs ?
<troy_s> how many 'extra' themes are going in?
<bersace> Who_: ok, to solve the problem, i switch to Tango for DapperDrake
<Who_> 5, Indust, HumanLegacy, Resilience, Gray, Dapper
<troy_s> et, can i edit your spec at some point?
<troy_s> this has nothing to do with the default desktop everyone is faced with correct?  these are purely additionals.
<troy_s> ???
<troy_s> et that spec is a too loose and too hastey
<troy_s> i think we shouldn't start submitting specs just quite yet.  wiki your thoughts first then draft.
<dholbach> once you are happy with all your changes, can you send me a tarball with all of that?
<dholbach> that'd be really nice
<Who_> dholbach: it'll be there in 5 mins
<Who_> or let me say 30 and have some more checking (testing) time with the group :)
<dholbach> ok
<Who_> please can someone here volunteer to test these packages!
<Who_> (not packages, but you all know what I mean)
<troy_s> Who:  thank you very much for pacakging that up
<troy_s> you stepped up when others just bickered.
<troy_s> we will simply need to deal with the bugs as they flow now.
<Who_> billy doesn't seem to understand I'm including Dapper!
<troy_s> billy is 
<troy_s> a lot of mail
<troy_s> this is brutal.
<bersace> troy_s: sorry, i was at diner
<Who_> did you read Billy's 'attack' on me - didn't appreciate that - made it private at first then public!
<bersace> troy_s: i remove that specs
<bersace> uggh
<bersace> that's seems not possible :(
<bersace> i downgraded it to braindump
<Who_> bersace: can you test this theme tarball I have?
<bersace> where to download ?
<troy_s> who:  dude i have a mailbox full
<bersace> lol
<troy_s> who:  use your sense of ubuntu spirit to make the best decision
<troy_s> NO in their right mind is going to fault you because you decided to show up for work.
<troy_s> i am trying to figure out launchpad and negotiate a family / career
<troy_s> who:  you are dealing with it very gracefully.  just keep it up.  we need supporters not f*cking detractors.
<troy_s> who:  it is all fine and dandy to have really lovely opinions and flood the mailing list, but if you don't ultimately put up -- shut up.
<Who_> troy_s: lol. I'm just checking it :)
<bersace> Who_: where is that tarballs ?
<Who_> I'm about to email them...sorry] 
<bersace> ok
<Who_> on the list
<bersace> Who_: yes !
<bersace> that's quite good !
<Who_> so it works, properly, all themes?
<Who_> cos I'll email Daniel then
<msikma> Finally home
<bersace> yes
<msikma> So what's the word? Has the themes thing been resolved?
<msikma> Has LegacyHuman been accounted for?
<bersace> yes
<bersace> nice to see it again :)
<msikma> Wow, that's incredible. Awesome work, those of you who got the job done. :)
<Who_> msikma, I'd love it if you could try out the theme packages I just sent to the list, as many computers as poss is better - it would be really hasslesome to have to fix typos this late :)
<msikma> I'll try to help, but I haven't even had the time to grab the latest RC yet... and I still have something to finish. I'll grab the RC now and then get the themes tonight.
<Who_> well, they can be tested without rc - as in, it is just a tar.bz2 that I am about to email to Daniel with the folder structure to go in /usr/share/themes
<msikma> Ah, right. Well, then I'll just fire up my old laptop that's running Breezy.
<Who_> msikma: (beware of not having Ubuntulooks)
<troy_s> greets mich
<troy_s> ok guys read that mail
<troy_s> i just posted it to the list...
<troy_s> i had to happen, sorry.
<troy_s> it had to happen.
<bersace> troy_s: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+edithackergotchi to add the big logo
<troy_s> ber: okie.
<troy_s> where is the image?
<troy_s> etienne?
<bersace> troy_s: i sent you the link earlier
<bersace> http://bersace03.free.fr/pub/Ubuntu and follow links
<troy_s> and et, I can't seem to find a way to get rid of the double ubuntuwiki crap at the top of launchpad
<troy_s> nor how to send mail to everyone without having that damn email approved... grr... 
<troy_s> cool thanks for the links... i'll add em
<troy_s> done et.
<bersace> troy_s: try /+edithomepage
<bersace> for double links.
<Who_> I'm sending to Daniel now
<troy_s> ???
<troy_s> ber?
<troy_s> nice work who!
* troy_s bows to Who
<troy_s> christ i am not going to have a family after this.  we _really_ need to decide on who else is going to administer the launchpad site... frank and joel haven't checked in frequently enough.
<bersace> re
<troy_s> bersace thanks for your streamlining of the wiki stuff.
<troy_s> it looks terrific... short and clean
<troy_s> very nice.
<bersace> you should really avoid those here link
<troy_s> try to keep internal wiki refs to [wiki:Self]  format as opposed to external links.
<Who_> dholbach: Themes in your inbox, ready to go.
<troy_s> why?
<troy_s> oh
<troy_s> i see
<dholbach> Who_: thanks
<Who_> dholbach: Thanks a lot, no photos on any dartboards, we promise
<troy_s> you mean include greater information where they link
<troy_s> daniel you rock
<troy_s> appreciate all of your hard work to make ubuntu what it is.
<dholbach> thanks guys.
<dholbach> you rock too and in Edgy you'll have all the time and space to freak out
<dholbach> and do whatever you like :)
<Who_> right. Time for a break! see you all soon
<Who_> bye. Thanks all
<bersace> troy_s: links MUST be meaning ful or else, people have to read the contextual text to understand the link when they do not read the entire page
<dholbach> thanks
<bersace> Who_: thanks
<bersace> troy_s: also, googlebot wants meaningful links
<bersace> troy_s: and when you search links with any browser, you do not search "here"
<bersace> troy_s: naming pages is also a critical issue in wiki, we should care to have heavy meaningful title
<bersace> default search is title search !
<bersace> e.g. i don't understand the meaning of ArtworkTeam/Content
<bersace> What does that mean ???
<bersace> meaningless title lead to mess in wiki
<bersace> see all /Content sub pages ...
<bersace> What a mess !
<bersace> troy_s: do you allow me to rename pages ?
<bersace> we should have a ArtworkTeam/Themes pages gathering themes review and projects
<bersace> We should have a ArtworkTeam/Guidelines
<bersace> That includes DevelopmentProcedure etc.
<bersace> troy_s: don't you ?
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> agree
<troy_s> i just put 'content' there to collect existing pages.
<troy_s> its a start, nothing more
<troy_s> if you can see better structure, i would do it
<troy_s> but try to keep the draft there for now
<troy_s> everything else clean up as you can...
<troy_s> i agree100% ... the wiki was a bloody outdated mess
<troy_s> dapperblahb lahblah edgy blahb lahblahb
<troy_s> everything scattered everywhere is useless.
<troy_s> you there ber?
<troy_s> the way i see it, pages suffer from LACK of contents and subpages listing (tried to establish a template on this)
<troy_s> LACk of structure -- ramble on and on and not scannable.
<troy_s> LACK of organization structure as you have just noted.
<troy_s> u there et?
<bersace> re
<troy_s> sorry ber.. i was flooding the channel.
<bersace> k
<bersace> troy_s: Do we still ned the table used for the vote ??
<troy_s> probably not... but we need a place
<troy_s> to record events as they have transpired...
<troy_s> communitychangelog
<troy_s> as it were
<bersace> where is the mail where sabdfl says it's point of view about the structure of the team ?
<troy_s> check the archives
<troy_s> at the mailing list signup zone
<troy_s> you can search thru the entire month in plain text...
<bersace> found https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-May/001673.html
<troy_s> i think if you go to 
<troy_s> the ArtworkTeam/Meetings/Agenda Pascal has two links.
<troy_s> to the mail.
<troy_s> it is around there somewhere.
<troy_s> Hey etienne
<troy_s> Great streamlining.
<Who_> troy_s: Mind if I have a look at getting rid of the second wiki link in LP homepage?
<bersace> troy_s: if you want to warn me using IRC, type bersace and then xchat-gnome warn me up
<bersace> not etienne, et, ber, etc.
<bersace> :)
<troy_s> cool
<troy_s> bersace:  Need links on how to get onto irc, the mailing list, within our wiki
<bersace> no
<bersace> we should put one for all the wiki
<bersace> not just for ArtworkTeam
<bersace> and it should already exists
<bersace> it might
<bersace> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InternetRelayChat?action=show&redirect=IRC
<troy_s> and the new pages you put in need to have contents and subpages listings to keep it cohesive... namely Guidelines to start.
<troy_s> We will also need to get that dev doc in place or _a_ dev doc, so at least make it so people can find it... 
<troy_s> So that should be very frontal.
<troy_s> No documentation == no progress
<bersace> i suggest to add subpages section for subpagesful pages
<Who_> bersace + troy_s: I know you've been on this wiki mission for a while now, are you gonna send a list of what you've done to us all - I've rather lost track!
<bersace> Who_: just subscribe to wikipages :)
<Who_> ohhhhh, cunning :)
<bersace> Who_: we will make ArtworkTeam a real homepage
<Who_> bersace: (from the wiki or in LP, or what?)
<bersace> that guide everyone to the rest of our "webspace"
<bersace> Who_: from the wiki
<bersace> after Edit
<Who_> what's the volume like?
<troy_s> Who:  I just tried to root it all, bersace has been doing a lot of the legwork.
<bersace> Who_: every edition, you get the diff
<bersace> the author
<bersace> and the message
<troy_s> bersace:  I do think we need to have contents on every page for when the page gets long.
<troy_s> and the subpage listing...
<bersace> troy_s: i suggest to adde them as page get long but :)
<bersace> as needed
<bersace> but you can if you want
<bersace> no matter
<troy_s> let's just keep everything the same.
<troy_s> it looks more professional.
<bersace> troy_s: i mean that pages without subpages (such as Themes pages) should note haves subpages menus
<troy_s> Also, we need to get a design document procedure in place.
<troy_s> bersace -- that's fine but if they add one then it is automatically generated...
<troy_s> hence putting it in accomodates the future.
<troy_s> and thus far, guidelines doesn't encompass tools etc.
<troy_s> Look at the document teams page
<troy_s> and structure accordingly
<troy_s> okie?
<Who_> you guys still want a mini guide to writing a meta theme?
<bersace> hh : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Themes/Template :)
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> we need bloody docs on how to do everything
<troy_s> they can evolve into full fledged documentation at some point
<bersace> near Tools
<troy_s> each thing requires tools, knowledge, etc.
<troy_s> Not to mention to locate exactly what package everything belongs in.
<troy_s> Tools depends on the target, so each 'target' will need it's own tools link to the tools main page
<troy_s> with me?"
<troy_s> tools page should have EVERYTHING on it, and anchors for reference from other pages.
<Who_> troy_s: I think more constructive is a page of links on how to do it - we need not replicate stuff
<bersace> yes
<troy_s> who:  EXACTly
<bersace> i think that we need a Documentation page
<Who_> good call.
<troy_s> off root... lets keep it clean.
<bersace> which contain guidelines, tools, howto, and so on
<Who_> I'm gonna have to take a rest
<troy_s> Where is that draft right now bersace?
<troy_s> who: ditto.
<bersace> troy_s: wich draft ?
<bersace> WideTheme ?
<bersace> Developement ?
<Who_> but on my list I have: New image for Henrik, Doc on how to do things
<Who_> bye all
<Orro> hey people, im about to start contributing, anybody active here?
<bersace> yep
<Orro> hi
<bersace> our big bosses are troy_s, Frank and Andreas
<bersace> currently, troy_s is the most active leader
<bersace> i'm hardly workiing a building a real wiki space for ArtworkTeam
<bersace> see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam
<bersace> and subpages
<Orro> i want to get involved with the project, ive just created a contribution for the recent "web page adjustment" - should i just upload my images to the sandbox? or should i clear them with people etc..
<bersace> nop
<bersace> send it to Henrik
<Orro> ok
<bersace> Henrik Nilsen Omma <henrik@ubuntu.com>
<Orro> thanks ill do that now
<bersace> Orro: thanks for you contribution
<troy_s> ber, you will need to adjust the wiki to make sure that any existing links below artwork team work properly
<troy_s> ;)
<troy_s> that's the downside of moving pages.
<troy_s> bersace also you will need to provide for drafts of NEW documents... put a place there where you can check and keep order if you are going to try and maintain a wiki structure.  people need to have a place to put fresh things.  put ALL things that haven't been finalized into DRAFTS so that people don't get the wrong impression.  Like WideTheme isn't useful yet, so keep it in drafts
<bersace> ok
<troy_s> and then you need to proof all your changes and you had better tell the list that you tried to do some structuring... and expect the explosion of backlash... :)
<troy_s> 1) make sure all the links work
<troy_s> 2) make sure it is clear where people should submit new things and how to do it
<troy_s> 3) make sure all the links work :)
<troy_s> subpages assumed a certain structure, and when that structure changes, it cascades.
<troy_s> the only things that WONT require changes are the tables of contents and the subpages listings.
<troy_s> because they are dynamic.
<bersace> yep
<troy_s> espeically tasks
<bersace> troy_s: this is hard work to organise, your review is useful. Don't hesitate to check the link yoursefl
<troy_s> bersace:  yeah you get a taste of what happens when things move too quick!
<troy_s> bersace:  get it solid now, double check the links.  make sure it is clear from root for first time viewers
<troy_s> bersace:  then post and hope that people offer some feedback.  i'll look in a while to see how it has flowed.  i intend on bringing up a list of things with mark in paris.  you should try to attend since you are already in france.
<bersace> troy_s: sorry, but now, i work on my project report for school
<troy_s> bersace:  first impression, it looks clean off root but where does a new user put the things?  
<bersace> Drafts/* :)
<troy_s> just a thought.
<troy_s> bersace:  great... but you need to let everyone know that off root or wherever... :)
<bersace> you can do it
<bersace> i'm busy
<troy_s> bersace:  where did henriks submissions go?
<troy_s> got it.
<troy_s> nevermind
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-30
<troy_s> who lives?
<troy_s> not a good sign
<bersace> troy_s: wep
<bersace> here it's 02:47 am
<troy_s> wep?
<troy_s> ahh... yes i understand now.  hell its only 5:49 here
<troy_s> you going to paris bersace?
<bersace> i live in paris
<troy_s> the meeting
<troy_s> you going to be there then?
<bersace> yep
<bersace> tomorow, i have an oral exam
<bersace> so i'm quite busy
<bersace> the last for this year
<troy_s> good.  i'll see you there then.
<bersace> troy_s: where do you live ?
<troy_s> Canada, vancouver
<bersace> troy_s: and you come in Paris soon ?
<troy_s> indeed.
<troy_s> 19th
<troy_s> i think i am there from the 19th to the 24th
<bersace> troy_s: for the Ubuntu conf ?
<troy_s> bersace:  yes.
<bersace> nice :)
<newz2000> So where is the proper place to propose radical new ideas for edgy?
<bersace> Drafts
<bersace> ArtworkTeam/Drafts
<newz2000> ah. Got it
<bersace> We may want to create a /Proposals category
<newz2000> I'm overwhelmed by the amount of information on that page. ;-)
<bersace> lol
<bersace> newz2000: create a subpage of Drafts 
<newz2000> Do you think xgl/compiz will be ready for mainstream by mid-fall?
<newz2000> I love the idea and ahve been waiting for 3d since looking glass came out,
<newz2000> but I have to admit, the current state isn't ready yet
<bersace> newz2000: compiz/aiglx (aka xorg 7.1) maybe
<newz2000> oh, is that getting rolled into xorg?
<bersace> that is already
<newz2000> I wonder what opportunities that will provide for the art-team. I would love to see some sweet looking eye candy.
<newz2000> As silly as it sounds, I think it attracts more people than it repels
<bersace> do not forget that xglx is a Xgl server is on top of Xorg where Xegl is a real standalone Xgl server that use fb and other well designed piece of software
<bersace> Xegl is to Xorg what Hurd is to Linux
<bersace> so good night 
<bersace> its 4h22 am here :)
<newz2000> ok, g'night. Thanks for the pointer.
<bersace> ++
<troy_s> Newz:  Don't expect much
<newz2000> really?
<troy_s> covering the basics
<troy_s> is tough enough
<troy_s> it is quite a massive endeavor
<troy_s> the artwork in ubuntu is across a thousand packages
<troy_s> with all sorts of dependencies on gtk
<troy_s> metacity
<troy_s> etc.
<newz2000> Have you tried it out yet?
<troy_s> i know, yes...
<newz2000> The current stuff doesn't look quite right
<troy_s> if you want to try something very simple
<troy_s> try to turn your own system into the type you want
<newz2000> and I think people will be experimenting with it seriously when dapper hits the 'shelves'
<troy_s> and then you will see what is involved.
<newz2000> I can tell it will be involved
<troy_s> oh its huge
<troy_s> and coordination in a community driven thing makes it very tough... you need to be democratic and such.
<newz2000> Still, I can't help but think that 3d will change everything
<newz2000> I'd love for Ubuntu to be on the cutting edge
<troy_s> and when you start tying up already thin resources, you are looking at quite a deal.
<troy_s> cutting edge makes for lots of bleeding.
<newz2000> That's edgy though
<troy_s> anyways... throw a draft in
<troy_s> and see if it sticks...
<newz2000> Yeah, I will. It can't hurt to open the floor for discussion.
<newz2000> I think. :-)
<troy_s> all you can do is document and record and then at least people can look at things
<troy_s> yep.
<troy_s> i would say that edgy for artwork is going to be largely about conservative motion trying to abstract a good underlying foundation structure.
<troy_s> but that is just a guess.
<dinda> troy_s do you have a link to the paris meeting info?
<troy_s> uh i wish
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> The two art related guys who I know for certain are going to attend know nothing thus far.
<dinda> I found the original announcement in one of the mailing list archives but not seen anything since
<dinda> do you recall the dates for certain?
<Madpilot> check the wiki?
<dinda> wiki search turns up nothing
<dinda> at least a search for paris. . . 
<dinda> nothing in events yet either
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitParis
<dinda> yeah - thanks!
<dinda> thanks again, g'nite all
<Madpilot> "wiki search turns up nothing" - sorry, but I don't think he searched at all...
<troy_s> 19-24
<troy_s> pretty sure about that part :)
<msikma> Hi all
<msikma> At work right now.
<lapo> hi
<msikma> Hi lapo.
<bersace> hi
<msikma> Hi bersace.
<bersace> msikma: ping
<klepas> moin
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-31
<mpt> "Dawn of Ubuntu" is pretty
<mpt> well done to whoever drew it
<mpt> and, hooray for not putting any branding goop in "Ubuntu Sparkle"
<mpt> that's all
<troy_s> head count is LOW
<troy_s> head count critically low
<msikma> It's going to get lower. I need to go to work.
<msikma> I'll drop by when I arrive.
<msikma> Bye.
<lapo> hi
<msikma> Hi lapo
<lapo> yo msikma
<msikma> How's it going?
<hepheous> hi :)
<ompaul> where are the images for cd's and dvd's for dapper I have to submit them to a printer today so I can have them published tomorrow for the session in the *house of celebration of dapper* (cough pub)
<bit_doidao> hi all! we (ubuntu-br/ubuntu-mg) are organizing an event here in brazil, and need the photo in full resolution. does anyone knows how to receive permissions to use it?
<bit_doidao> i have already sent an email to trademarks@ubuntu.com
<bersace> Do we really need Pool AND Drafts ?
<bersace> I suggest that Drafts are for Documentations, Propositions where Pool is for outside content
<bersace> but is that useful to distinguish that ?
<bersace> troy_s: any ideas ?
<troy_s> greetz
<troy_s> bersace... no
<troy_s> but the problem is that
<troy_s> once you start a structure
<troy_s> you need to make sure that you keep it simple
<troy_s> so i suggest that we put ALL new things into drafts
<troy_s> which means pretty much EVERYTHING because none of it has been proofread etc.
<troy_s> ompaul, i posted your query to the mailing list...
<troy_s> hopefully we can get some resolution quickly.
<ompaul> I found it :-) sorry been busy working on it ;-)
<troy_s> phew...
<ompaul> had to do some mad stuff - let me get the url
<troy_s> please do
<troy_s> i would like to wiki it for future reference...
<ompaul> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing
<ompaul> I have to remove the Red :-(
<ompaul> our sponsor has problems with his colour red - he duplicates cds and dvds for a living and we are under time pressure - must have for tomorrow night :-/
<ompaul> so without wrecking his day but still producing a large bundle of DVDs
<ompaul> fun
<troy_s> can you PLEASE post this to the ubuntu art mailing list.
<troy_s> i have been trying to straighten all of these sorts of issues TOWARDS that mailing list...
<troy_s> it's not your fault that you don't know where to turn, it is ours.
<troy_s> That is all old stuff.
<troy_s> Is that the best we are going to be able to do for a new release?!??!
<troy_s> ack
<ompaul> 6.06 is there
<ompaul> have you got something better?
<troy_s> didn't see the 606 link
<troy_s> i suppose that was the domain of the doc project.
<troy_s> too bad the coordination wasn't in place for this release.  at least it is done!
<troy_s> phew.
<ompaul> okay so your not going to fall over on me atm?
<ompaul> :-)
<troy_s> yah... well the coordination and structure leaves a LITTLE to be desired :)
<troy_s> thankfully, the doc team must have completed those.
<troy_s> at least one part is organized...
<ompaul> right now I am trying to make clean up and get into a printable form the print for the disks 
<troy_s> so do you still have issue with the red color?
<troy_s> ok...
<ompaul> yes, they want something lighter
<troy_s> so you know that you can tap the rather _currently_ scattered art team resources
<troy_s> by sending mail to the mailing list correct?
<ompaul> I will do off white 
<troy_s> mark reads it
<troy_s> and he will crack the whip
<ompaul> heh
<ompaul> well I did not say that red was an problem it is too late for that
<troy_s> i suggest you A) do what you need to get it done (because the work ethic is a little ... um... ) then post it so that
<troy_s> folks are in the loop
<troy_s> yep.
<ompaul> well I will join that list tomorrow
<troy_s> all i am trying to do now with my limited time is
<troy_s> merely get the communication going
* troy_s is out.
<ompaul> cheers
* ompaul is fighting gimp xpaint might be easier :)
<ompaul> note note a g or a k but x I am an older person
<troy_s> indeed.
<troy_s> thanks for all of your last minute effort ompaul.
<ompaul> hey what I want is 100 DVDs in the pub tomorrow night - the local lug chairman and I are on a people do stuff campaign so it works 
<troy_s> what was the exact printing issue?  too deep red?
<ompaul> yes
<ompaul> it appears that light reds work better and the font size for these machines, the guy fears that they will run into each other
<ompaul> this may not say a lot for his printers or maybe he is not using the best in the house
<ompaul> but we get a fairly large amount off the advertised retail price
<ompaul> so we try to recover 2 euros per DVD and then make more, so far we are operating at a loss :-)
<ompaul> but that is not the issue, but keeping the cost down is important it means more disks 
<ompaul> we want to do the DVD because it is not the CD if you get my drift its "ohh that is different" I can try before I install is what we want to encourage
<ompaul> it awaits the modirator I may go back with my comments later
<kyledye> msg nickserv set hide email on
<kyledye> whoops
<ompaul> from the top, no slippages this time :-)
<defunkt> hi ya'll
<defunkt> i just joined the team :)
<bersace> defunkt: welcome
<defunkt> thank you :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-01
<msikma> I hate walking into #ubuntu and people randomly going "Windows sucks, Mac sucks, Ubuntu is god".
<z_diver> seems to be lots of that everywhere you go these days.
<z_diver> drains you
<msikma> I'm fine with people exclaiming that they find Ubuntu much better, but there's never a reason to bash other people for using something else and proclaiming that their system is absolutely awful in every way.
<msikma> I'm never going into #ubuntu again.
<z_diver> sometimes you can get a good technical answer, never is a while and a half
<msikma> There is no technical explanation for saying that the other major operating systems are "completely worthless and ugly and unstable and slow and [insert more words here] ".
<z_diver> oh, yeah!  You're right.  I've seen it different at times.  I think they are bored and waiting to have a party if / when the website gets updated.
<msikma> Speaking of the website, wasn't there a discussion going on about a front page redesign?
<msikma> I think that it needs to. The current design, which seems to be different from what it's always been, is a little awkward.
<z_diver> Yeah, I almost wrote to Henrik about that
<z_diver> I like the new site, I think just because it's different.
<msikma> Yeah, I like it too. The old one sported almost exclusively text. But I don't really agree with that navigational item at the top of the page on the front page.
<z_diver> But I've noticed that Canonical is run off a similar template so I'm not sure how far they want to go.
<msikma> And the way the text is below that seems a little misplaced. I'll make a quick suggestion later.
<z_diver> There are a few mistakes too.
<z_diver> the top header isn't quite aligned right
<z_diver> Thought I should look into it but then I noticed even Canonical is like that.  do you see that?
<msikma> It's just overall a little badly designed, I guess. The idea is nice, but it's inconsistent with itself.
<msikma> I'm not sure what you mean. Canonical's front page looks like Ubuntu's old front page.
<z_diver> after the ubunto logo there is a bit of a change on the bottom shadow of the beige header
<z_diver> firefox shows it anyway.  I'll test some other browsers.
<msikma> Ohh
<msikma> Yeah, now I see it.
<msikma> That's an error.
<msikma> Heh, that's pretty bad.
<z_diver> well, I just tested on Safari and on IE for mac.  Woao
<z_diver> site completely disintegrates on ie mac
<msikma> Seems they just forgot that color. It's embedded in the Ubuntu logo image. Internet Explorer 6.0 also shows it.
<z_diver> not too big a deal because nobody uses it anymore but there is nothing for 1000 pixels or more under content.
<z_diver> canonical has the same error.
<z_diver> I'm sure it's just because of the recent updates.  I might let Henrik know but I'm sure he's got plenty to take care of atm.
<msikma> You should probably mail it to the Ubuntu-art list and Ubuntu-devel list.
<z_diver> On IE for Windows, how is the Ubutu nav menu to the right.  All one color?
<z_diver> or is the header slightly darker?
<z_diver> Header being the light grey colored "ubuntu" logo thing.
<msikma> Looks fine. No gamma issues there.
<z_diver> On all my mac browsers it's slightly off.
<msikma> Hmm
<msikma> Oh, wait, it IS off.
<msikma> By a very slight amount.
<z_diver> yeah
<msikma> That must be the image itself rather than IE's faulty rendering of some of them.
<z_diver> wesafe color issue or something.
<z_diver> *websafe
<msikma> Nah.
<msikma> You don't even have to recognize web safe's existence.
<msikma> Web safe colors is the most 1984 thing in web development ever.
<z_diver> mac gamma then?
<z_diver> can you see the dif in IE?
<z_diver> I take that back, FF on mac is fine
<msikma> I can see the difference in IE and not in Firefox. Must be a wrongfully set gamma value in the PNG.
<msikma> Internet Explorer renders images darker if this is so.
<z_diver> safari has it also
<msikma> 2.0?
<z_diver> 2.03
<msikma> Well, I'm leaving for work.
<z_diver> Interesting...  Camino is fine with the gamma issue on the menu AND it fine on the underline part.
<msikma> See you around. I'll drop by this channel at work.
<z_diver> ok
<msikma> Really? Camino uses the same rendering as Firefox.
<msikma> Both use the Gecko engine.
<z_diver> yeah
<msikma> Maybe it updated? Try hard refreshing in Firefox.
<z_diver> but it has the line going all the way to the tabs
<z_diver> then it stops and after the tabs./
<msikma> I really gotta go now, though. I work on a Mac at work so I'll try to figure out if I can see that, too.
<msikma> Later!
<z_diver> Well, I"m out of here too.  Andy, look like you are alone.  Night!
<onkarshinde> anybody talking here?
<lapo> hi
<onkarshinde> hi
<msikma>  "Theme idol idea"? (Referring to the "That's a wrap everyone!" mail by Viper550 on the list)
<msikma> That's got to be the worst idea I've ever heard.
<lapo> msikma: I think there's too much talking at the moment, we'll need to do a point in the future choosing some common directions to follow and start from there
<lapo> at the moment there's to much traffic on that ml, almost impossible to follow, well at least for me
<lapo> bersace: I'm happy you're putting some love on the a sane scanning interface, if you need any help (my c skills are rotting so artistically speaking) feel free to ask
<bersace> lapo: thanks :)
<bersace> source code tree is rawly available at http://bersace.ath.cx/flegita
<bersace> i'm currently building library
<msikma> lapo: the worst thing that can happen is people ignoring any kind of planning we may come up with. V550 was just stating all kinds of things in that post, like "We need to choose a completely different color scheme for Edgy". Perhaps we must, but what position is he in to say whether we should?
<bersace> lapo: just put your comment at http://live.gnome.org/GnomeScanning
<bersace> i really need external point of view in order to design rocking UI !
<lapo> you should ask mpt about gui design
<lapo> msikma: I think a meeting is required
<msikma> Indeed.
<msikma> If we're getting feedback from a lot of people soon, we might want to wait for that.
<lapo> msikma: regarding colors, I think the colors ubuntu is using are quite bad, but kinda unique so I'm fine with them, and I think changing them all is really a dumb choice
<msikma> I think that changing them simply "because they need to be different" isn't a valid argument.
<lapo> yeah
<msikma> Maybe we do need to completely change them around, I don't know. But not for this reason.
<msikma> (I don't think we do, by the way.)
<lapo> I'm more for evolution then revolution
<msikma> Me too.
<msikma> I also wonder what Julian is talking about when he mentions that Mac OS users are "_begging_" Apple to "replace the Finder".
<msikma> I've never heard of that. Sounds like weasel words to me.
<bersace> lapo: mpt ?
<lapo> bersace: he is a gui designer he usually hang on #ubuntu-deskop
<bersace> lapo: thx
<bersace> We may get inspired by https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam
<defunkt> i can help with any graphics if need be
<msikma> I seriously wonder what Julian meant when he said that people are begging Apple to replace the Finder. I've really never heard of that. I don't even know how to respond to that particular thing in his mail.
<lapo> I think the vast majority of apple users doesn't even know what the finder is :-)
<msikma> Oh, I'm sure they know what the Finder is, but I doubt that they really think of it that critically. It's just "the system".
<msikma> But I think that Mac OS users are generally a little more computer-savvy. I have no doubt that hardly anybody knows what Explorer is, though.
<msikma> Huge mail sent to art list... I still hope that it won't spawn a massive debate.
<msikma> blah.
<msikma> I only just sent the first response and already I don't feel good about it.
<defunkt> so what has the artwork team been doing for ubuntu...like specifics
<lapo> defunkt: arguing on the mailing list atm :-)
<defunkt> whats wrong with the mailing list?
<lapo> too much traffic
<defunkt> ah
<lapo> nice email msikma
<lapo> a fully agree
<lapo> I
<msikma> Yeah, the mailing list is a little high traffic. I'm going to be gone for the weekend on a family trip, and I probably won't be able to check my mail, and I fear for when I get back :)
<msikma> But I'll try to smuggle my laptop along
<msikma> Also, thanks.
<troy_s> But I think that Mac OS users are generally a little more computer-savvy. -- that's completely incorrect.  Mac tries to market to folks who know nothing about computers.
<troy_s> defunct:  Paris is going to lead to some concrete goals.  From there, it will be documented on the wiki.
<troy_s> defunkt:  due to a lack of cohesive structure, mark has ended up dumping a large chunk of what an art team should handle back into canonical's hands.  of course, if everyone doesn't pitch in and do a little work, probably not.
<defunkt> ok awesome
<defunkt> well if i can do anything, please let me know
<defunkt> i have to go to lunch tho, bbiaf
<msikma> troy_s: they do, but mostly in the context of the iPod, I think. But I don't know for sure because almost all designers I meet use Macs, as well as most other people involved in the creative chain. They're a little more tech-savvy.
<msikma> Well, I'm gonna quit, see you all when I get home.
<msikma> Damn, I worked... 10:30 hours today.
<msikma> Oh well.
<msikma> Bye
<jd_miam> (hi)
<defunkt> howdy
<MiniJames> hey
<MiniJames> Congrats on the launch ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-02
<pppoe_dude> hi
<troy_s> greetings
<lapo> hi
<msikma> Hello everybody. I'll be out this weekend, so I won't be able to respond to e-mails or the mailing list.
<msikma> I'll be back on Monday evening. I hope you won't hold any meetings until then. :)
<msikma> See you then.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : Welcome to the Ubuntu Artwork chat channel.  Idle here if you can...  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam
<bersace> hello
<theCore> hi
<bersace> when is the next meeting ?
<bersace> sorry https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Meetings
<bersace> humm...
<bersace> there is saturday 3 and sunday 4, but no saturday 4  june 2006 :(
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-03
<theCore> jimmac: hello
<MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
<MacSlow> I'm a bit desperate while trying to find the official ubuntu font.
<MacSlow> What is it called? Is it specially designed for ubuntu?
<Madpilot> it's on the wiki
<Madpilot> link from wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing, I think
<Madpilot> it's called "Ubuntu Title"
<MacSlow> Madpilot, thx
<Madpilot> np
<MacSlow> hm... why does evince display the ubuntu-logo and ubuntu-word itself very pixelated, but acroread renders it totally crisp
<Madpilot> because AcroRead is still better at PDF rendering, unhappily
<MacSlow> *sigh*
<MacSlow> well as long as it prints properly
<Madpilot> what're you working on?
<MacSlow> I wanted to give a shot at my own CD/cover "art"
<Madpilot> cool
<MacSlow> I want something more graphic... clean lines... no photography
<MacSlow> where do I get CD- and cover-format templates from?
<MacSlow> perferably for inkscape
<nettogrof> MacSlow: With any designs on? Or just a blank?
<MacSlow> blank... I want to do the whole contents myself.
<Madpilot> MacSlow, google - I've seen SVG CD blanks out there
<nettogrof> I want to join the ubuntu artwork team.
<Madpilot> nettogrof, cool, welcome aboard. Are you on the mailing list yet?
<nettogrof> nope not yet
<Madpilot> see the URL in the /topic here - ML contact there
<nettogrof> ok :)
<nettogrof> subscribed
<troy_s> anyone alive?
<nettogrof> me
* MacSlow is
* Madpilot mostly is
<troy_s> you guys want a meeting?
<troy_s> just polling...
<troy_s> if you want a meeting before the paris summit.
<troy_s> which happens on the 19th.
<troy_s> ?
<nettogrof> this channel isn't regd guys?
<troy_s> how do you reg it on freenode?  someone else mentioned this.
<Madpilot> troy_s, check freenode.org's FAQ, I think there's how-to-reg info there
<troy_s> okie...
<troy_s> will do
<troy_s> meeting answer guys?
<troy_s> yay or nay?
<troy_s> just curious as to the current thought.
<nettogrof> ok
<nettogrof> but i'm not a fully fleged member yet :/
<Madpilot> yes - although with my current timetable I'll probably not be able to make it :|
<troy_s> two yays?  what do you figure should be discussed?
<troy_s> i probably can't make one either... busy as hell.
<MacSlow> first try for the front http://macslow.thepimp.net/shots/cover-1.png
<MacSlow> somehow the watermark-like large logo for the background doesn't fit the way I expected
<MacSlow> I think I should better stick to gcc ;)
<imbrandon_> is there a ttf font for the ubuntu title ?
<MacSlow> wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing
<MacSlow> imbrandon_, look somewhere down the page
<imbrandon_> thanks
<MacSlow> ping anybody
<MacSlow> is there also a CD-stand tarball available for the stand that usually comes with the CDs one gets from shipit?
<troy_s> greetings guys and gals
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-04
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-s+cnt]  by ChanServ
<megabyte405> Hi everybody - got a quick question if anyone's around.  I'm trying to set up a pseudo-derived distribution of Ubuntu, and I would like to know how to set a GDM, window/gnome theme, and background as the "default" from within a package
<troy_s> mega
<troy_s> who sent a good set of posting on the theme to the mailing list
<troy_s> so check the archives
<troy_s> the splash is in /usr/share/pixmaps/splash iirc
<troy_s> gdm is handled via the switcher -- i think it is as simple as setting up a symbollic link
<megabyte405> I already have a custom deb package that installs the artwork, I'm just trying to make it default now :)
* megabyte405 also needs to figure out how to make an authenticated apt repository
<troy_s> with gpg keys?
<megabyte405> yeah
<troy_s> wouldn't it be better to simply adjust the sources so that you point to all the packages you want?
<troy_s> i am only thinking that security wise it is nice if there is already a well monitored repository.
<megabyte405> that's waht I'm doing
<megabyte405> I'm adding my repository so that I can host my own custom artwork package and a metapackage
<megabyte405> I'm modifying the ubuntu desktop seed file and pushing my own desktop meta-package
<megabyte405> that way the default package install comes the way I want, if I have additional modifications (or hand-picked backports) I can add them to my repository and upgrade my meta-package to push upgrades
<troy_s> are you part of the artwork team yet mega?
<troy_s> your ability would be appreciated on the team...
<megabyte405> yes, I am
<troy_s> good.
<megabyte405> Ryan Pavlik aka cezpi4y02
<troy_s> keep your ear to the ground -- i am going to try and push a lot of effort post paris.
<megabyte405> awesome, I'm on the list/have been for a while
<troy_s> i am currently waiting for paris to get a feel for exactly what mark has planned
<troy_s> yep, the structure stinks right now.
<megabyte405> I'm a bit over-booked at the moment, but I did put together a nice theme (a blended theme with tango colors) for this mini-distro
<troy_s> i think we are all overbooked
<megabyte405> yeah, there is a little too much of a "fly by the seat of the pants" feeling I think for such a structured set of requirements
<troy_s> which is why we really all need to come together in the community spirit and do little bits at a time
<megabyte405> yep, that happens
<troy_s> yep.  which is exactly what i am going to get laid out...
<troy_s> i have already formalized a design doc at the wiki...
<megabyte405> great
<troy_s> it is merely a starting point... but it will give us some clear deadlines and
<troy_s> such...
<troy_s> it is in the documents section
<megabyte405> alright
<troy_s> it will evolve after paris...
<troy_s> but hopefully we can get some concrete
<troy_s> foundation in place
<troy_s> so that everyone can do little bits... and see the cohesive 'whole'.
<megabyte405> do you know offhand which ubuntu package is responsible for setting the defaults that I'm looking for?  I looked all over in ubuntu-artwork but I'm not seeing it
<megabyte405> yeah
<troy_s> you mean setting artwork defaults?
<troy_s> no i have begged the guys to look on the damn list, but everyone doesn't seem to be interested in that sort of thing.
<megabyte405> yep
<troy_s> if you find out what package, PLEASE let me know personally via email
<troy_s> or post it to the list...
<troy_s> anything... i would like to build a database of all the different packages and what components of art are in which ...
<troy_s> follow me?
<megabyte405> yep, OK, will do.  I know where the setting is once the user is created and they manually change it (by observing the change in Pessulus ("User Profile Manager")
<troy_s> in fact, send me mail with what you have done thus far... i'll extract
<troy_s> troy.sobotka@gmail.com
<megabyte405> and it looks like stuff in /etc/skel according to a reply to my reply on the list
<megabyte405> what do you mean?
<troy_s> well what packages you have tweaked
<troy_s> etc.
<megabyte405> OK
<troy_s> any info is appreciated.
<troy_s> thanks again mega.
<megabyte405> np
<megabyte405> there, sent you an email with what I know so far
<troy_s> thanks mega.  keep me posted.
<troy_s> i'll wiki it rough perhaps tonite.
<troy_s> your feedback and participation would be helpful as you have tinkered with it now far more than i have.
<megabyte405> great, glad I can help
<megabyte405> The hardest part so far was making a makefile to install artwork so that I could make a debian package
<megabyte405> I had never made a makefile before
<troy_s> yes well all that information is dead helpful!
<troy_s> did you search through the arhcives for who's post?
<troy_s> he did some theme stuff and had a link to a few sites.
<megabyte405> yes, I saw those
<troy_s> good.
<megabyte405> troy_s: sent you a tar.gz of the framework from my artwork package, if you want it
<megabyte405> help and info is in the Makefile
<megabyte405> It's what I use in my package to build a "ra-artwork" package
<megabyte405> Oh, yes, forgot to add.  When using this, first make a tar.gz of the particular artwork thatyou want to install in that directory structure without the debian directory. (and give it a version number, like ra-artwork-0.1.tar.gz)., as if it were a tarball downloaded from an upstream web site.
<megabyte405> then any time you want to change/update the artwork, make a new tarball with a new version, and follow the "New upstream version, basic" instructions in the New Maintainer Guide (linked in the makefile)
<megabyte405> that took me about a day or so to figure out, so it might be a good resource to have available if artists want to package their work as a deb file
<troy_s> no kidding!
<troy_s> exactly my point.
<megabyte405> feel free to redistribute that or put it on the wiki - you might want to add the info I just told you to the top of the makefile with the rest of the help
<megabyte405> May as well give back what I have learned to the community :)
<troy_s> well yah... that's part of it.  the other part is the work it takes to organize it.
<troy_s> everyone just 'dumps' their thoughts to the mailing list without trying to do a little legwork on finding out where it should go etc...
<troy_s> and then it just gets lost in the ether.
<megabyte405> yeah, taht too
<megabyte405> Hmm, there appears to be no decent resource that says how to sign packages for a personal repository
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> keep sending me your progress mega.
<troy_s> as you get enough little bits collected
<megabyte405> definitely, can do
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-28
<lapo> hi
<blacklinuxbox> salve
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-30
<darkmatter> nothlit, ok... I need your opinion on the mockup for the text entries (first mockup for glory, yay!). not that it was done really quick, so the contrast of light/shadow is off, but its approximate enough to get the general idea
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/520599323/
<darkmatter> hiya klepas
<darkmatter> klepas, just a mockup, but working on/improving the actual pixmaps for the text-entries in roughly this style  http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=520599323&size=o
<darkmatter> whatcha think?
<kwwii> darkmatter: looks nice (although you didn't ask me)
<klepas> beats the current one :)
<klepas> i'm still using MorningGlory
<kwwii> darkmatter: I assume you
<klepas> (when is that release coming?)
<kwwii> erm....I assume that you will put this in Gutsy?
<klepas> i hope so :)
<darkmatter> hopefully
<darkmatter> working on it
<klepas> darkmatter: in one of your screenshots i see a gnome menu in the middle of the screen (as if it were a xfce menu)
<klepas> how did you do that?
<klepas> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=502007263&size=o
<darkmatter> klepas, kwwii just trying to squash a few bugs atm... the majorityof the theme should be done by next week.. as in usable but not finl as far as tweaks go
<darkmatter> klepas, ctrl+F1
<klepas> doesn't work for me?
<klepas> maybe because of beryl?
<kwwii> darkmatter: killer, let me know if you need any help with packaging, etc.
<darkmatter> maybe.. check the beryl setting
<darkmatter> in the default gnome and in compiz ctrl+f1 pops up the main menu
<darkmatter> kwwii, nice
<darkmatter> I'll keep you at the top of the list :)
<kwwii> ;-)
<darkmatter> kwwii, I think once I up the contrast on the shadows a bit the text-entries should be killer
<darkmatter> then I can extend the "ouline this!!" motif across the rest of the shadows n widgets in general
<darkmatter> feels more natural, lends a bit of dimension where before things seemed flat
<darkmatter> plus its a little bit closer to photorealistic (and if I wasnt stuck drawing with a boulder it would be photorealistic)
<darkmatter> damn mouse
<kwwii> darkmatter: yeah, the line could be a bit darker probably at least
<darkmatter> kwwii, of course its just a mockup (I claned it up... the damn pixmap engine repeats the shadows (since entries like that are actually two entries)
<darkmatter> so just gimped the bugger
<kwwii> ;-)
<darkmatter> to see what it'd look like one it goes to code
<darkmatter> roughly
<kwwii> that is the best way to start, especially with pixmap based stuff
<darkmatter> yup
<darkmatter> kwwii, basically, once the general feel is ironed out (almost there), I want to put it in engine form with all the bells n whistles.. full custom widget support for the panels (including bg gradients, etc).. and subtle yet lovely animations throughout
<kwwii> sounds sweet
<darkmatter> like.. say a pulsating glowy line inside the text entry for focus... just an underline of the text
<darkmatter> stuff like that
<darkmatter> glow on the buttons
<kwwii> although I am pretty busy with artwork atm, please don't hesitate to ask for anything
<darkmatter> nothing to dramatic
<kwwii> how are those done?
<darkmatter> kk
<kwwii> the animations, I mean
<kwwii> are they hard coded or a series of bitmaps or a transition from one bitmap to another?
<darkmatter> kwwii, I'll need to look at the code again.. kinda studying another engine that does them
<kwwii> cool
<darkmatter> but I know with most its just a stepped translucency (not pixmap... just shade
<darkmatter> though I may use a pixmap or two in engine once I get a good start on the code
<kwwii> right
<kwwii> have you ever coded anything like this before?
<kwwii> my first widget-theme was in gtk but that was about 8 years ago
<darkmatter> not in a while, and not gtk or cairo.. I mean.. I've worked with gtk.. just not engines
<kwwii> right, same as me - only I haven't done it in a long time :-)
<darkmatter> cairo is a must because of all the pretty drawing code
<kwwii> yeah, when we worked on clearLooks I realized how nifty it is
<darkmatter> I can play around with general api and ui drawing well enough.. but an engine is a bit different
<kwwii> have you made a wiki page for this yet?
<darkmatter> meh.. it'll come in time
<kwwii> yeah, might be better to wait until you have something in hand
<darkmatter> nope.. just a bzr branch.. but hasnt been updated since I formatted and installed feisty
<kwwii> I'm hoping that we can get a few community based themes and such in Gutsy
<kwwii> in fact, I was kinda told by the boss to make sure it happens ;-)
<darkmatter> I just want to finish the basics of this thing for next week, then I can start a wiki page
<kwwii> right, making a wiki page too early will only lead to confusing discussion
<darkmatter> the idea is to really define a set of style guidelines.. basically redefine the ui themewise (nothing solid exists in that area yet). reduce visual cacophony to a minimum (one reason I'm not partial to clearlooks etc are the bold oulines, you want widgets distinct.. but not distracting)
<darkmatter> also would *love* to push a real move for consistency in gnome
<kwwii> I think that the bold outlines just make it look old and it leads the eye too much
<darkmatter> ala the way widgets are used
<kwwii> hehe, good luck on that
<kwwii> beleive me that kde has the same problems
<kwwii> it seems that oss developers love to use widgets in ways they were never intended
<darkmatter> kwwii, I said I'd *love* too.. never said there was a chance in hell it'd fly though
<darkmatter> kwwii, yup
<kwwii> ;-)
<darkmatter> look at things like nautilus even... for all its "HIGiness", ots still crap... graphically inconsistent.. I mean.. at least use frames around the bloody sidepane/main if ya get the picture
<darkmatter> just such small little tweaks/patches
<darkmatter> but thing that users notice from the get-go
<kwwii> definitely
<andreasn> darkmatter: ah, like in thunar?
<darkmatter> andreasn, yeah.. kinda
<darkmatter> make the window non-flat
<andreasn> thunars widgets look great
<darkmatter> helps distinguish things visually
<andreasn> should be pretty easy to fix probably, nautilus use glade, right?
<darkmatter> I believe so
<darkmatter> havent looked at the beasts code
<darkmatter> kwwii, another crazyassed dream is to get devs to actually document the custom widgets n classes etc that an app uses
<darkmatter> like that'll ever happen... -_-
<kwwii> lol, good luck
<darkmatter> thats what really makes theming a pita
<darkmatter> its pretty much a matter of experimenting till something finally works
<kwwii> yeah, that has been my experience
<darkmatter> I have a 3000ish line gtkrc template already.. and it grows bigger every day
<darkmatter> scary
<kwwii> the hardest thing is accepting that you are limited by all this stuff - makes the artwork side of it no-fun at all
<darkmatter> yah
<kwwii> well, time for lunch....bbl
<darkmatter> kwwii, like how I would love to do a seperate skin for the nautilus pathbar with breadcrumb style buttons... problem is.. though you can custom apply a skin to it.. it goes on the main toolbar too
<darkmatter> bummer
<kwwii> ouch, yeah...that sucks
<darkmatter> it would de-fatten nautilus nicely
<darkmatter> anyway... go get yer lunch
<kwwii> thanks :-) see you in a bit
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-01
<nothlit> darkmatter: poke--hows the theme going? :D
<darkmatter> nothlit, http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=522966812&size=o <-- starting to get solid ;)
<nothlit> nice! the outlines are going
<nothlit> the hilight on the right side of the button looks a little funky--although its probably best to just down it down on both
<darkmatter> nothlit, yeas.. or just leave it at the bottom and chop the right shadow off. just leave the slightly darker edge
<nothlit> hmm yeah, right now some is @ 12 and some is at 10:30, that would definitely rectify it :)
<darkmatter> nothlit, I could also rectify it by making the button template 2 pix taller, and use the extra pixel at the bottom to extend the lower shadow
<darkmatter> problem with that though is it would really mess with the padding
<darkmatter> but one it goes to code that shouldnt be a problem
<darkmatter> cairo cheats being what they are
<nothlit> hmm does text ruin the 3d effect of the dropdown box?
<nothlit> or is it small/neutral enough
<darkmatter> it seems to be neutral enough
<darkmatter> just not all the widgets have been delined yet
<darkmatter> nothlit, just a crappy mockup http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=520599323&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o <--- but thats *basically* how the entries will be handled
<darkmatter> though with better shadowing
<nothlit> i think the effect could still maybe be toned down a bit being that the height is smaller
<darkmatter> yeah
<nothlit> spiffy
<nothlit> darkmatter: i'd like some more emphasis on the text entry
<nothlit> although its difficult to tell when the focus is so tight
<darkmatter> nothlit, yup.. there will be.. that was just a cheap mockup to see if the general idea would work with the rest of the ui
<darkmatter> the diff between light/shadow will be more pronounced
<nothlit> darkmatter: ahh, well that it does :)
<darkmatter> basically I want a gtk that for once feels sculpted instead of mashed together with a glue stick
<darkmatter> still have half the widgets to revise, but most certainly have a release this weekend
<nothlit> i think your theme is going to be a building block for more real physics based themes
<darkmatter> hopefully
<darkmatter> thats part of the aim anyway... to redefine the approach to desugn as well as its implementation
<darkmatter> *design
<darkmatter> nothlit, then its on to stage two... doing the mockups of Dionysus. a system/media library application I've been planning (on paper at least) for a while now... its also basically a proof of concept for a *big picture* project thats just a dream atm
<darkmatter> basically I have an intresting perspective on ui design, other than painting/sculpting and drawing random surreal crap, I LOVE sitting down with a sketchpad and storyboarding ui's
<darkmatter> the approach I use differs from the traditional in that I approach an app for what it basically is. instead of just copying the standard practise.. I approach it as an interactive document
<darkmatter> it should feel *real*. just like a theme it should be a sculpture of sorts. kinda pseudo-organic in presentation
<darkmatter> it should also be *live* to an extent instead of purely static. so basically, for example, regarding Dionysus, it would adapt to "where" you are in your data
<darkmatter> so if your in music.. it would basically become a media player, in pictures it would become *fspotish*, if you're in "work"/"office" whatever it would becom a todo-list/task manager/calandar.. if your in people.. it would become an address book with direct one click links to compose email/send IM's, inirtiate sendto's etc
<darkmatter> anyway.. I'm rambling... talk later. break time. missus wants to use the computer ;)
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o troy_s]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : Welcome to #ubuntu-artwork!
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
<X-Ception> hi elkbuntu
<elkbuntu> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-02
<bersace> Hi all
<bersace> my membership is about to expire in 7 days
<bersace> could any admin fix that  ?
<bersace> troy_s:  ping
<bersace> andreasn: ping
<andreasn> bersace: pong
<bersace> andreasn: could you please change my expiration date for my launchpad artwork-team membership ?
<andreasn> well, yes, I probably could
<andreasn> is it expiring, I didn't know it could do that...
<andreasn> how is gnome-scan going these days?
<andreasn> hm, I'm not sure I can find you on this list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art/+members
<andreasn> ahm there you were
<andreasn> should I set the expiration to never instead?
<andreasn> or just extend it for one year?
<andreasn> bersace: ok, fixed
<bersace> andreasn: thanks
<andreasn> np
<darkmatter> nothlit, ping
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=526506362&size=o
<troy_s> darkmatter: What music browser is that?
<darkmatter> troy_s, banshee
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=526521386&size=o
<darkmatter> buttons fixed
<darkmatter> troy_s, I'm debating rename the theme to Ozone...
<darkmatter> or Hal-i-frekkin-luja xD
<troy_s> god not another o thing
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> Something like 'Elderly People Prefer Asparagus' is a little better...
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> "My Buttons are Better than Yours!"?
<troy_s> or "What Might Happen When You Are Trapped In a Bunker With A Peter Fonda Lookalike."
<darkmatter> haha
<darkmatter> "ARRGGHHHHH!!! MY EYES!!! IT BURNS!!!"
<troy_s> anything creative beyond say the 'AHHHS' or 'OOOOS' -- VistAH, AquAH, PlasMAH, FAHck
<troy_s> woo
<troy_s> i like that
<troy_s> Or 'These Goggles Do Nothing."
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> brb
<darkmatter> troy_s, if it wasnt for a guaranteed lawsuit Id call it "Goooogleez" and use the google eyes for the window menu... ;)
<nothlit> use xeyes
<darkmatter> I admit.. it looks macish due to that meacity... but tonight I start on the actual themes metacity... and the mac reference dies :P
<nothlit> darkmatter: the buttons aren't nearly as subtle as the scrollbar and co, but the sources of light still seem funky to me lol
<darkmatter> I'll probably do the final build against murrine (so I can have pretty selected items in lists n trees)
<darkmatter> nothlit, yeah.. still tweaking
<darkmatter> need to lighten the grad on the buttons a bit
<troy_s> i'd like to see the prettified scrollbars and progressbars
<troy_s> the rest is all pretty oatmeal -- which is a good thing.
<bersace> very nice
<troy_s> darkmatter: Pretty well suited for a Lua port... maybe you should talk with dborg.
<darkmatter> troy_s, yeas.. I like "oatmeal".. especially since the redone them is based on ui sketches I did.
<troy_s> darkmatter: The tango outline is still heavy though.
<darkmatter> which will need to be mockedup so all can se why the theme looks the way it does
<bersace> troy_s: do you know the plans for this release cycle ?
<troy_s> darkmatter: Stripped down minimalism is quite nice when it has the odd 15%-20% pretty in it.
<troy_s> bersace: There are none, there never will be any, and it will end up looking the same.
<bersace> troy_s: fine
<darkmatter> troy_s, tango oulines gone.. ceot on the notebook (it renders weird in alpha.. may need to opaque the boarders
<troy_s> bersace: So don't worry yourself -- everything is on course :)
<bersace> :P
<darkmatter> *borders*
<troy_s> bersace: Unfortunate, but again, if you want aesthetics, you need someone who cares about culture and aesthetics at the top.
<troy_s> bersace: As much as I despise the man, S. Jobs is an ace of spades in that regard.
<darkmatter> s jobs is the god of appeal.. its his one strong suit
<troy_s> bersace: He _believes_ in strong aesthetic decisions and (now that his ipods sold over 100 million) realizes that design influnces adoption.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Well he is the god of snake oil salesmanship.
<darkmatter> and bill gates is the king of web2.0 gfx :P
<troy_s> darkmatter: But he does have a redeeming quality to him -- he appreciates art and culture.
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: sabdfl is closer to billg than s.jobs.
<darkmatter> and it even shows in the design of the os
<darkmatter> osx is the finest looking thing out there currently
<troy_s> darkmatter: Little lost, uber conservative, and a distinct lack of innovation in the realm of aesthetics.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Unfortunately I would agree with you... that said, when you have two items to choose from...
<darkmatter> troy_s, agreed
<nothlit> jobs is anti drm, thats the one thing that i do like
<troy_s> darkmatter: The one thing that the very well trained and educated designers at Apple know -- its that aesthetic values shift.  It isn't a 'right or wrong' issue -- it is 'how does this piece fit into the contemporary trends.
<troy_s> nothlit: He was _not_ anti drm
<troy_s> nothlit: You fell into his fecking snakepitch
<troy_s> nothlit: He was 100% pro drm, and in fact, only became the anti-drm pioneer when he realized that the true masses were going to take it down.
<troy_s> nothlit: Granted -- he jumped on the wagon at a very good time.
<troy_s> nothlit: And for that, he deserves some credit... he is at least _ahead_ of the rest of the idiots... but not much better.
<nothlit> troy_s: hmm, i've read stories about him fighting with the big 5 almost since the beginning of itunes
<troy_s> nothlit: Spin spin spin spin
<troy_s> nothlit: Remember, the early shift of the ipod was to present a completely monopolized media player.
<nothlit> no
<nothlit> i mean during
<nothlit> not afterwards lol
<troy_s> nothlit: Get in deep with mp3 support, flog drm to keep people locked in.
<troy_s> nothlit: And do it all behind the scenes and out of the daylight -- how many people immediately embraced iTunes without realizing that their music would only play on their system?
<troy_s> nothlit: It was slimy to say the least.
<troy_s> nothlit: Classic Apple...
<troy_s> nothlit: I lived through the bloody tyranny of Apple when they had 98% market penetration -- it was a sad sad era.  Want a mouse?  It is a DIY connector!  Disk drive?  That too... come to apple... we will help you... we will save your soul.  lol.
* troy_s outs... 
<darkmatter> troy_s, yup
<darkmatter> troy_s, unfortunately gnome-artists dont follow trends... there more concerned with "WOOOO!!!! I can make the ui look like its constructed from GUMMY BEARS!!!"
<darkmatter> troy_s, like gnomes newest "theme" Gummy... its nothing more than a gelatinous version of clearlooks
<bersace> darkmatter: are you behind http://darkmatter.thegamecreators.com/ ?
<darkmatter> as in.. its not a theme. a them is something "original" recolouring and shifting gradients doesn *NOT* count as a theme
<bersace> kwwii: Hallo !!!! :D
<darkmatter> bersace, nope
<kwwii> hi bersace
<kwwii> :-)
<darkmatter> bersace, if I was I'd dump the 2.0 graphics ;)
<kwwii> bersace: are you from the bordeaux?
<kwwii> area
<bersace> kwwii: no, Paris
<bersace> (remember UDS-Paris)
<nothlit> darkmatter: hmm i enjoy the availability of recolours
* bersace goes bed
<bersace> 'd night all
<andreasn> darkmatter: there are some people working on putting some new themes into gnome-themes-extras
<andreasn> darkmatter: perhaps your theme can go in there as well
<andreasn> darkmatter: hold on, let me find the url
<andreasn> darkmatter: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/GnomeThemesExtras
<darkmatter> andreasn, looking
<darkmatter> nothlit, I enjoy the avalibility of recolours to. but thet are not *themes* as so many pimp them as. they're just colorschemes
<darkmatter> and yes... thats an anal observation
<darkmatter> :P
<darkmatter> oh!!! need to screenie the redone tooltips!
<darkmatter> nothlit, troy_s,  http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=526601048&size=o <--- no more sticky notes!
<darkmatter> and yes, the 2pix curve on the corners was a PITA
<kwwii_> evening all
<kwwii_> I am going to add a wiki page with instructions for using the automaticArtworkBuilder ...it is not finished yet, but it is a beginning and if anyone wants to help let me know
<kwwii_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomaticArtworkBuilderInstructions
<kwwii_> night
<darkmatter> l8r all
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-03
<troy_s> wow.  way to rally the community... lol.
<darkmatter> nothlit, almost got the frames working http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=527411864&size=o
<darkmatter> but weird drawing bugs... depending on the app... some alpha maps (using them on shadows n buttons) render darker
<darkmatter> its like gtk tries to opaque them
<darkmatter> just weird
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=527607989&size=o hmmmm
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=527582038&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o
<darkmatter> hmmmm
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-26
<kwwii> jair0: did you get the wallpaper done? :p
<jair0> not really, but I did some screenshots
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> so, it looks like I will be heading up to berlin on thursday
<savvas> to yell at him in person? :p
<jair0> oh, kwwii gets really pissed off
<savvas> :)
<jair0> you've gotta see him :)
<savvas> donald duck angry or.. ?:P
<jair0> more like daffy duck, or ?
<savvas> "you're dithhhhpicable!"
<jair0> xD
<savvas> I still remember those cartoons :)
<kwwii> actually, I don't think I have ever seen anyone yell at jair0 ...he's too nice of a guy to yell at
<jair0> ooooooooh
<savvas> ahhh those were the days, not today with the anime and stuff
<jair0> a lot of violence too, though
<jair0> remember roadrunner :)
<savvas> mik mik :p
<kwwii> that poor wolf
<jair0> the coyote !
<jair0> mik mik
<kwwii> erm, right
<jair0> kwwii, just let me know what time you'll arrive to get your (ehem) your internet connection ready and the like :)
<kwwii> jair0: beautifull :-)
<kwwii> jair0: I will be arriving thursday evening probably either 8 or 10
<kwwii> jair0: the french guy is gone? if so, I can give you some money instead of paying for a hotel :-)
<jair0> kwwii, yes the guy is gone until the 8. and I'll be gone from the 4. to 13. June
<jair0> kwii, I'll have my Scandinavian Tour: software integration in Helsinki and ICT Mobile Summit in Stockholm :)
<kwwii> sounds like a lot of drinking to me
<kwwii> I hope you get a good per diem, scandanavia is really expensive (although I've never been to sweden I guess it is just as expensive as the others)
<savvas> carpe diem ;p
<jair0> I wish I had a decent 'per diem' they just pay you...  something like 30 EUR a day
<jair0> "you are supposed to be working, not hanging out"
<jair0> "McDonald's food might also be good for you"
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> you could spend the money on drinks alone ;-)
<artnay> http://eat.fi/?str=5&setLang=3 try that instead of mcd ;-)
<jair0> but it's nice anyway.... they pay you back the flight and the hotel and the taxis, etc
<kwwii> so, for anyone who hasn't seen my ass on stage yet... http://foodfight.org/fotos/2008/05-22%20UDS-Intrepid,%20Prague/img_0127.jpg.html
<artnay> and if you need advices regarding helsinki, just /q or join #ubuntu-fi
 * kwwii puts a dark theme in ubuntu - people will be flipping out tomorrow
<jair0> kwwii, dude, looks like you're wearing a skirt. Was it in Glasgow ?
<kwwii> lol, it was prague and they are actually just shorts :p
<jair0> thanks for the tip, artnay !
<andreasn> kwwii: do you have a screenshot for us who are not brave enough to run the unstable version?
<andreasn> alt. needs a system that works :)
<jair0> kwwii, nice pics ! powerful pics !
<kwwii> andreasn: I'll make one when I have the stuff ready :-)
<andreasn> okidock :)
<kwwii> jair0: thanks! now you know why I bring all this heavy camera crap with me everywhere :p
<DanaG> Random: http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/14/773006/Echo.jpg
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-27
<DanaG> Random: http://www.driverheaven.net/insideati/index.htm
<Cimi> kwwii, ping
<kwwii> Cimi: pong
<kwwii> Cimi: I'm cooking my son dinner but will be checking irc every now and then
<Cimi> the murrine code is quite complete, I mean it could not be so complicated to get something similar to your mockups with transparency. The problem is that Gtk+ requires a patch to globally set a RGBA colormap, to enable transparency (and with transparency rounded menus and so on).
<Cimi> actually a guy is working on this, but I don't think we could get a patch for gtk before its freeze (one month).
<Cimi> I'm searching for a coder, maybe you know someone who can help us for the intrepid look
<kwwii> Cimi: wow, cool....with intrepid we can play a lot more with the code and probably include more last minute ideas...if we don't get rgba in in time, I guess there is little we can do about that
<kwwii> Cimi: have you talked to macslow about the rgba stuff?
<Cimi> just a bit
<kwwii> I imagine he might be able to help (or perhaps njpatel)
<Cimi> he seems to be busy with gdm
<kwwii> yeah, I can imagine
<kwwii> and niel is busy doing mobile stuff
<kwwii> maybe I should talk to seb and vincent and see what they think
<Cimi> if we can't propose the patches in time (july) we won't have something for intrepid
<Cimi> actually the problem is with the gtkstatusicons
<Cimi> because the current freedektop specification doesn't consider the possibility to use a RGBA colormap
<Cimi> and gtk, which is following this patch, will fail trough a Xorg Badmatch
<kwwii> ouch
<Cimi> so we should need to fix this, then few minor things
<Cimi> if someone like njpatel or mirco could work on this
<kwwii> I think we need to contract someone to take care of this stuff but it is really hard for me to convince mark without showing him something first
<Cimi> I think there no reason to doubt that we will reach to patch gtk in time
<Cimi> It's not something that require a contract
<Cimi> imho
<kwwii> well, if it were up to me I would throw money at you to code all the crack I can think up :p
<kwwii> lol
<Cimi> should not be difficult to do
<Cimi> lol
<kwwii> I'll send mirco, niel and yourself an email opening up this discussion, maybe one of them can find some time
<Cimi> I can't for sure
<Cimi> neil and mirco are already payed
<Cimi> so they can work on it, isn't it?
<kwwii> yeah, the main problem is that they are both working on projects which mark wants to see in intrepid so I am not sure how much time they will have
<kwwii> I might be able to talk niel into it even though he is not on the desktop team
<kwwii> he might do it in his spare time
<kwwii> I am putting a dark murrine theme together now and will put it in intrepid in a day or two
<kwwii> so maybe I can show that to mark, even as a mockup of it using transparency and convince him
<Cimi> kwwii, start using murrine from svn for your tests
<Cimi> I will make a development release in the middle of august
<kwwii> Cimi: which svn is it in?
<kwwii> and is there any instructions on building it or is it straight forward?
<kwwii> hrm, google doesn't seem to be much help in finding the svn
<Cimi> svn co http://svn.gnome.org/svn/murrine/trunk murrine && cd murrine && ./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr && sudo make install
<Cimi> it will overwrite your murrine installation, uninstall the ubuntu deb
<kwwii> cool, thanks for the help
<Cimi> kwwii, gnome-system-monitor should be transparent
<Cimi> btw use of transparency highly depends on the blur effect of compiz
<Cimi> without it, transparency is unusable
<Cimi> there are a lot of new things in murrine which you might like
<Cimi> one is custom gradients for buttons and other widgets
<Cimi> gradients ={ 1,0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0 } will define a flat theme for example
<kwwii> is there any info on tweaking the new stuff?
<Cimi> not actually
<Cimi> and maybe I will change few names...
<Cimi> btw the code explains better
<kwwii> hehe, use the code luke :-)
<giusef> hi all
<giusef> kwwii: I was working on that RGBA patch for GTK+ that Cimi told you before
<giusef> we had a bad issue with GtkStatusIcon, which seems won't work with RGBA colormaps
<giusef> the main problem is that
<giusef> forcing GtkStatusIcon with a RGBA colormap just to try, we had a small, not embedded, window with the tray icon inside
<kwwii> giusef: hrm, not that much of a hacker really
<kwwii> giusef: if you want to be part of the conversation around this at ubuntu, send me an email
<Cimi> kwwii, at the moment he is the guy that knows better than everyone else the issues
<kwwii> giusef: do you have any idea of what we would need to do to get it working right?
<giusef> kwwii: not really, atm
<kwwii> giusef: hrm, so how could I help you to get this stuff done (other than learn C)?
<kwwii> :-)
<giusef> lol
<Cimi> kwwii, maybe helping him contacting other devs
<kwwii> giusef, Cimi: right, I think that we should start off by having a discussion between anyone and everyone who has an idea of what needs to be done
<kwwii> giusef: my email is kwwii at ubuntu dot com, can you send me an email so I have your address?
<giusef> sure
<kwwii> cool, thanks
<andreasn> Cimi: was this issue brought up on gtk-devel list?
<Cimi> don't think so
<Cimi> you should ask giusef
<giusef> kwwii: sent
<andreasn> giusef: did you send any e-mail about this to gtk-devel-list?
<giusef> no, I was thinking about that
<andreasn> I think it would be a good idea, someone should probably be able to give you hints on how to get around your problems
<giusef> yeah
<giusef> I go to write
<andreasn> rockn!
<DanaG> Oh yeah, speaking of rgba: the wallpaper settings (through Nautilus) should allow RGBA.
<DanaG> That'd let people use semitransparent backgrounds, or wholly transparent backgrounds.
<giusef> why a trasparent background?
<DanaG> It'd let me do things like having a transparent window into my compiz cube.
<DanaG> Or have a cool only-halfway-there side to the cube.
<Cimi> oh ugly and useless
<DanaG> No, it'd also let people use the different-wallpaper-per-side plugin.
<DanaG> That'd just need a 100% transparent wallpaper.
<DanaG> er, color.
<DanaG> It's only ugly if you use ugly images for it,
<DanaG> .
<darkmatter> the cube is useless for anything other than a 'wow' effect. imho the default view should be a 2x2 arrangement on a plane, not only does it offer more functionality, but it makes more sense
<Cimi> mmm
<Cimi> I'm for the 1x4
<darkmatter> well, either way. all the desktops should be viewable on switch
<darkmatter> the reason I prefer 2x2 is less mouse travel
<DanaG> I like cube, myself.
<DanaG> Plus, it's amusing having fish inside it.
<Cimi> -.-
<Cimi> maybe we have a different ideas about what is a desktop
<DanaG> Yeah, I know I'm a bit silly sometimes.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-28
<smallfoot-> check out the most awesomeness mockup for colored themes in ubuntu http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/317/coloredthemeyz9.png and if you like that, then vote for it http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/9190/
 * thorwil waves to nand 
 * nand waves back
<nand> still no luck :(
<thorwil> wonder what they are doing all day
<nand> Well, there was the UDS, it is a valid excuse :)
<thorwil> nand: got anything out of the UDS for brainstorm/yourself?
<nand> considering brainstorm, the main wanted thing is an easy way for dev to cherry pick the "feasible" ideas
 * nand is still thinking on how to do it
<nand> and basically it was agreed that feedback to brainstorm is important
<nand> and we'll try to make ubuntu devs more involved in brainstorm, e.g. via the blog
<nand> thorwil: btw, any hint on the status of http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/384/ ?
<nand> I'd like to put some kind of update on this one, or better, ask kwwii to put some comments here
<thorwil> nand: i don't think you should put out a bait like "Get your artwork on 10 million desktops"
<thorwil> that wouldn't be fair
<nand> thorwil: I'm not responsible for the idea content :) But AFAIK, this was discussed and more or less agreed, right?
<nand> (the deviant art competition part)
<nand> see attached blueprint
<thorwil> nand: if it was discussed, i didn't follow it :/
<_MMA_> There's no reason it couldn't happen. Just needs someone to manage it. With the knowledge it won't be default.
<thorwil> _MMA_ last statement is _very_ important
<thorwil> oh, blueprint contains: "The winner will be decided by Mark Shuttleworth in August"
<nand> the fact is, I don't know if this has really started, or not
<_MMA_> thorwil: Just because the blueprint says it, doesnt make it official. Anyone can write one.
<thorwil> _MMA_: i know. it stands and falls with Mark's involvment
<_MMA_> thorwil: I would wadger Mark only cares about default and space willing, Ken can put in the winner.
 * _MMA_ notices the .tar.lzma archives are unknown and are missing a icon. kwwii: We should get that fixed.
<smallfoot-> http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6933/rainbowzz5.png
<smallfoot-> http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5295/steelif5.png
<cody-somerville> Heya art folks! :)
<cody-somerville> Can someone please create some launchpad branding for the Ubuntu News team?
<_MMA_> cody-somerville: Talk to thorwil tomorrow.
<_MMA_> He's good with things like this.
<smallfoot-> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/9190/ <-- check out cool idea
<kwwii> _MMA_: still around?
<_MMA_> kwwii: Kinda. Makin' burgers.
<Cimi> smallfoot-, please, stop it
<smallfoot-> :(
<_MMA_> Cimi: Be nice. He's done nothing wrong.
<smallfoot-> its art-related idea kinda
<Cimi> _MMA_, spamming since 5 hours
<_MMA_> It's spammy but not off-topic.
<Cimi> smallfoot-, we already read 4 times
<Cimi> and I agree with you, and I like your colors
<Cimi> but please stop spamming
<Cimi> also
<Cimi> gnome 2.26 will support color schemes
<Cimi> something selectable trough a combobox etc etc
<kwwii> _MMA_: ein guten appetit
<kwwii> enjoy your meal
<_MMA_> kwwii: PM if needed.
<kwwii> Cimi: it seems like something decent has come out of the email, eh?
<Cimi> kwwii, if this will become code well
<Cimi> otherwise words are totally useless
<smallfoot-> Cimi, awesome, but when is 2.26 come?
<Cimi> smallfoot-, march 2009
<kwwii> Cimi: I think it just might happen...I am putting in a theme with the current svn snapshot asap
<smallfoot-> oh
<smallfoot-> is long time
<Cimi> smallfoot-, we are currently working on muuuuch better things that you will enjoy much more than your (positive) idea
<kwwii> Cimi: we should probably talk about how to handle bug reports soon :-)
<Cimi> kwwii, as I said
<Cimi> my idea is not to provide it as the default theme
<Cimi> but installing
<smallfoot-> Cimi, oh cool, like what?
<Cimi> smallfoot-, you'll know when something will be out from our hats
 * Cimi hatttrick ;)
<smallfoot-> oh
<kwwii> Cimi: I think it is so early that we can try it out
<Cimi> kwwii, what do you mean?
<kwwii> do things go horribly wrong if it doesn't work?
<kwwii> including a the murrine snapshot
<Cimi> kwwii, if neil/mirco will wrote a working patch for the systemtray
<Cimi> we won't have many issues
<Cimi> mainly broken applications are abiword/gnumeric (can be easily fixed)
<kwwii> for now the panel's are still opaque anyway
<Cimi> maybe (dont know) openoffice
<kwwii> right, people can report bugs
<kwwii> not many people are running intrepid yet
<Cimi> the problem is that from times to times
<kwwii> OOo seems to work find
<kwwii> fine
<Cimi> developer did assume RGB as default
<Cimi> making things that are not compatible
<kwwii> execpt the page background seems to be the input box color
<kwwii> right
<kwwii> it will come up
<Cimi> for example
<kwwii> and we will see how we can fix it
<Cimi> abiword is incorrectly using a cairo function to clear the background
<kwwii> but if we don't try now we will never get further
<Cimi> this means that if you have a RGBA colormap
<Cimi> the abiword window (page) will become totally transparent (cleared)
<Cimi> same thing is happening for gnumeric
<Cimi> btw all we need to do is to patch 1-2 lines of code
<Cimi> :)
<Cimi> using cairo_source instead clear
<Cimi> easy
<kwwii> so we will have to patch apps that have a problem with gtk-wide transparency
<Cimi> not just us
<Cimi> it is a bug of the applications
<Cimi> they wrote bad code
<kwwii> Cimi: btw, I will probably be bugging you about gtkrc stuff...is there any info on the current options?
<Cimi> yeah
<Cimi> there's a xml
<Cimi> http://svn.gnome.org/svn/murrine/trunk/schema/murrine.xml.in.in
<kwwii> I looked through the stuff on the web and it seemed outdated
<Cimi> and the gradient_stops are deprecated
<kwwii> erm, so how does that effect gradient drawing?
<Cimi> if you want (for example) a metal look
<Cimi> just add
<Cimi> gradients = { 0.8, 1.0, 1.0, 0.8)
<Cimi> could work
<Cimi> IIRC
<Cimi> > 1 means bright
<Cimi> <1 dark
<Cimi> from top to bottom
<kwwii> right, but I have to understand what each thing does and how it does it
<kwwii> or at least which values are possible so that I can test it out until I get it
<Cimi> you should ask me
<kwwii> hehe, that was exactly my point
<Cimi> kwwii, they are explained in that xml
<kwwii> :-)
<_MMA_> Documentation is good also. ;)
 * kwwii looks 
<kwwii> wow, that is pretty definitve
<Cimi> that xml sucks
<Cimi> should be updated
<Cimi> but I think all options are in
<kwwii> it allows 4 gradient stops, if I read it correctly
<Cimi> that is deprecated
<Cimi> in favour of
<kwwii> so there are no stops allowed?
<Cimi> the sintax is different
<kwwii> or it is done directly in the gtk xml
<Cimi> let me check the code
<Cimi> kwwii, that xml is not used in the theme
<Cimi> is used for documentation
<kwwii> nahhh...don't worry about it now
<kwwii> I'll ask once i have a real problem
<kwwii> let we play with it first
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-29
<kwwii> I'll figure out as much as I can and then ask for help
<Cimi> oh yea
<Cimi> it is called
<kwwii> then you can laugh at me and tell me how to do it correctly :p
<Cimi> gradient_shades = {1.1, 1.0, 1.0, 1.1}
<Cimi> try to add that line
<Cimi> and change the values
<Cimi> to something mad
<kwwii> so the stops are passed directly
<Cimi> like gradient_shades = {1.1, 1.0, 0.1, 1.1}
<Cimi> you'll notice what does this means
<kwwii> cool, thanks
<Cimi> also I must remember you that style =CLEARLOOKS etc etc will make this option ignored
<Cimi> if you want a fedora look just add style = NODOKA :p
<kwwii> time for bed here. see you soon and thanks for the help
<kwwii> hehe
<Cimi> murrine is so powerful now
<kwwii> I want something totally different :D
<Cimi> see you kenneth
<kwwii> Cimi: yes, I get the feeling that I can do pretty much everything I want, if I can figure out how to configure the engine. great stuff!
<Cimi> kwwii, also
<Cimi> the engine source code is modular
<Cimi> so having a custom sub-engine is really simple
<Cimi> just add the file and 1 line of header
<Cimi> see you!
<kwwii> that is really nice, as the most important thing that sticks out to me is that the old human had nifty handles on the scrollbars...I would like to see something interesting on the new ones as well
<kwwii> hehe, I'll never get to bed at this rate
<kwwii> see you soon!
<zniavre> http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2408/hardy5vz3.jpg
<etretyak> zniavre: hey, share your wallpaper ;-)
<Cimi> kwwii, shit new nvidia drivers (173.14.05) still sucks with RGBA
<kwwii> Cimi: nvidia is the only chip which will do the hardware blurring?
<kwwii> Cimi: I have an intel chip anyway :-)
<zniavre> etretyak Darkwood_w_lights_by_asm0keydrunkly.jpg  bur i can not find it any more on deviant art
<kwwii> Cimi: I just packaged an svn snapshot from today for intrepid
<kwwii> I put some dark colors into the Human-Murrine theme so that people can test it out and give feedback
<Cimi> kwwii, for murrine? maybe you shouldn't
<kwwii> Cimi: it is not set as default
<Cimi> but a package for the engine or for the theme?
<kwwii> the engine
<kwwii> and I modified the current theme a bit
<Cimi> kwwii, so please package the engine with --disable-rgba
<Cimi> at the configure
<DanaG> What's the reason for that?  Does it break things if apps are not compatible?
<DanaG> Just curious.
<Cimi> DanaG, it will be transparent on few apps
<Cimi> and actually it will be just ugly
<Cimi> and unusable
<DanaG> Aah.
<kwwii> Cimi: the only apps that support it without a plugin on a standard ubuntu are gnome console and system monitor
<Cimi> kwwii, yeah I patched gnome-terminal
<Cimi> http://murrine.cimitan.com/rgba-support/list
<kwwii> right, I saw that
<qu1dpr0> Is the New Wave Guide official? Is there a final palette for color that is to be used?
<Cimi> new wave is absolutely unofficial and I'm sure it won't be part of ubuntu
<qu1dpr0> ok. just trying to separate thw wheat from the chaff within the mailing list posts...not easy
<Cimi> kwwii, any issue so far?
<kwwii> Cimi: nothing so far
<kwwii> a couple of people like it
<andreasn> kwwii: (!) ;)
<psyke83> hey kwwii, I'm working on your new theme now. Did you deliberately disable toolbar separators?
<psyke83> kwwii, I posted some proposed changes to the ML; I forgot to mention as a suggestion, to change the tooltip colours so they match the new colourscheme
<kwwii> psyke83: changes to which theme?
<psyke83> kwwii, the dark one in intrepid
<kwwii> psyke83: cool, sounds good...the colors I put in were kinda random
<kwwii> just a quick pick
<psyke83> I like your choice of brown for the background, though
<psyke83> the grey was too out of place, so I tried to "brownize" it a bit ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-30
<kwwii> we'll probably try out a bunch of different ideas over the course of the cycle
<kwwii> anyway, time for sleep
<kwwii> goodnight
<Cimi> re
<Cimi> kwwii, interesting things about murrine's configurator are happening in #murrine
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-31
<psyke83> kwwii, you there?
<kwwii> psyke83: I am in Berlin at a Linux conference
<kwwii> psyke83: but I am online for a bit if I can answer a question or so
<psyke83> kwwii, ah I won't bother you then, I'll post my next modification on the ML, is that ok?
<kwwii> psyke83: yes, please, do
<psyke83> sure thing, and enjoy yourself
<kwwii> psyke83: I'll include one from you next week
<psyke83> kwwii, I'm just throwing them out as ideas, in case they're liked... no pressure
<kwwii> well, the one I put in was the same kinda thing
<kwwii> so we can try out something different without worry
<psyke83> kwwii, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/attachments/20080531/c29553ff/attachment-0001.png
<psyke83> it's quite a bit lighter and uses a "coffee" brown as the selected bg colour, and just a few other tweaks
<psyke83> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-May/006464.html
<kwwii> psyke83: I like the idea but I am afraid to make it too washed out (and therefor too little contrast)
<kwwii> we can try something much lighter out and see what people say
<psyke83> kwwii, when you say too little contrast, do you mean the background colour against the selected background colour?
<psyke83> because too much contrast can also be bad (e.g. using firefox, dark widgets on a typical website)
<psyke83> (a website with white background)
<kwwii> psyke83: http://sinecera.de/current.png is where I am so far
<kwwii> right, I can see that point as well
<kwwii> really, we will have to test this out and see what people say
<psyke83> sure
<psyke83> by the way, judging from the screenshot, you're using "scrollbar_color"; that option is deprecated. Use "colorize_scrollbar" and set the boolean true, and it will inherit the selected bg colour
<psyke83> unfortunately I've noticed some instability with the new engine, too
<psyke83> it's from SVN, so that's to be expected
<psyke83> kwwii, also, the "contrast" parameter has a different effect on the new engine, you may want to set it back to 1.0 if you don't like the separator lines
<DanaG> Random thing: that reminds me... I actually do kinda' like rounded scrollbar ends... once I've changed the band-aid-ish bumps to lines instead.
<psyke83> DanaG, sorry, what bumps do you mean?
<DanaG> In Nodoka engine, actually.
<DanaG> That's what I'm currently using.
<psyke83> ah, ok
<BHSPitLappy> psyke83, I feel the contrast is too low as well
<BHSPitLappy> kwwii, I think the orange and brown clash in that shot
<BHSPitLappy> just my .04USD
<psyke83> BHSPitLappy, alright. The theme is color-picker compatible, so you can try tweaking the colours to your liking, and if you find a good combination you can post a screenshot
<BHSPitLappy> maybe we could employ ColourLovers here
<psyke83> BHSPitLappy, to be honest, I don't like dark themes because of too high a contrast, and I find it quite difficult to browse the net particularly, since we cannot control the background of webpages. Having a lower contrast makes it more tolerable
<BHSPitLappy> I use a dark theme currently, and I agree about the web problems
<BHSPitLappy> these are instances of bad CSS design, though, for the most part
<BHSPitLappy> and I tend to let the webmasters know when I can
<psyke83> BHSPitLappy, not at all, that's not the problem
<psyke83> are Google going to change their white background for us?
<BHSPitLappy> psyke83, when they explicitly set a backgorund but not a foreground, or vice versa, that's their problem
<DanaG> I use this slightly-dark theme in Windows: http://www.wincustomize.com/skins.aspx?skinid=436&libid=7
<BHSPitLappy> I thought that was the problem we were talking about
<BHSPitLappy> ending up with black-on-black or white-on-white text
<DanaG> s/in/when in/
<psyke83> BHSPitLappy, ah no, sorry. That problem is mostly in non-conformant GTK2 applications, e.g. gnome-control-center, nvidia-settings and many more
<psyke83> as long as the base colour is off-white, then the problem can be somewhat circumvented
<BHSPitLappy> I especially see the problem on input forms online
<psyke83> Ken chose an off-white base (grey) and so did I (light brown), so it's not a big deal for now. UbuntuStudio gets around this by having an off-white text instead
<BHSPitLappy> e.g. The text will be set to #000000, and the background will be set to system default (not set at all)
<BHSPitLappy> so they'll use my dark gray input bg and have me typing in black
<psyke83> BHSPitLappy, right, I haven't looked into that yet, but certainly a lower contrast theme is needed in this case
<psyke83> BHSPitLappy, do you know a site off-hand I can look at?
<BHSPitLappy> the moral I'm seeing is that content producers (apps and online) by and large don't allow users flexibility in theming
<BHSPitLappy> psyke83, google?
<BHSPitLappy> or do you mean a really problematic site
<psyke83> the google search page doesn't present any issues as far as I can see
<BHSPitLappy> the login on my university's web portal is an example
<BHSPitLappy> though the site is crap anyway
<BHSPitLappy> https://my.unt.edu/
<psyke83> where is the problem, for the EUID and Password fields?
<BHSPitLappy> yeah
<BHSPitLappy> the background there uses system defaults
<BHSPitLappy> the text there is explicitly set to black
<psyke83> that's not a problem, though, Ken and my version are already using black text for input boxes
<BHSPitLappy> psyke83, it's a bug in their CSS
<psyke83> BHSPitLappy, yes I understand, but it won't conflict with this specific theme, as we happen to use text for GtkEntry fields
<psyke83> so, it won't look inconsistent
<psyke83> *black text
<BHSPitLappy> it should either fall to system defaults for BOTH colors, like Google does, or explicitly set both
<BHSPitLappy> psyke83, it's not the theme's job to account for that problem, it's the content's
<psyke83> ok, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't present a problem ;)
<psyke83> and if you could apply a hack to enforce this behaviour, Firefox would need patching, not the theme or GTK
<psyke83> maybe there's a greasemonkey script that already does it, who knows
<DustinGraham> Trying to find a term for images that are basically black and white blocky stick figures (like the do not cross sign with the guy standing with the circle and the cross through it...)
<BHSPitLappy> psyke83, huh?
<psyke83> BHSPitLappy, to work around sites using bad CSS, I mean
<BHSPitLappy> you could do it with a global Stylish theme, which is also merely transferring the responsibility away from its correct recipient
<BHSPitLappy> I just sent an e-mail to the maintainer of that university page, it'll get fixed :P
<BHSPitLappy> It's just stupid to set the foreground color for something on a web page and not set the background, or vice versa.  Complete illogic.
<BHSPitLappy> also, that was weird.  (RE: DustinGraham)
<psyke83> BHSPitLappy, I can notice a difference looking at a CRT screen vs LCD, so I darkened the theme a bit more, what do you think? http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/HumanMurrineDark3.png
<BHSPitLappy> psyke83, it's better
<BHSPitLappy> why do the tabs in the lower-left look messed up?
<psyke83> and the orange? I'm not too sure about it
<BHSPitLappy> TWF bug?
<BHSPitLappy> I think it's okay
<psyke83> hmm what's wrong with the tabs?
<BHSPitLappy> if you're getting a palette from coffee, I'd look at lots of coffee pics for good complementing colors :)
<psyke83> I wasn't necessarily aiming for a "coffee" theme ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-01
<kwwii> re
<kwwii> sorry, had to leave earlier on short notice
<kwwii> it was either that or eat alone
<kwwii> does this say "Ibex" enough? http://sinecera.de/ibex_mod.png
<elkbuntu> it's a good base
<BHSPitLappy> http://www.colourlovers.com/palette/365080/m_o_u_t_h
<BHSPitLappy> kwwii, kind of says Debian to me ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-25
<_MMA_> psyke83: So you have anything else going on other than "Humanity"?
<psyke83> _MMA_, nothing else. I'm not even sure what possessed me to look at the theme again ;)
<_MMA_> We all gotta tinker. :P
 * _MMA_ is gonna go watch "Mythbusters" and watch them blow up a scale model of the Hindenburg. bbl
<Viper550> I remember that Xubuntu usplash we had when we first put it in...the kubuntu one with an X crossed in and a crudly drawn mouse in it
<geek_ubuntu>  
<geek_ubuntu> Quick question for creating wallpapers for ubuntu do they have to have the colors orange and brown
<geek_ubuntu> ?
<thorwil> geek_ubuntu, no
<geek_ubuntu> well somebody told me they did
<geek_ubuntu> lastnight
<geek_ubuntu> please could you have a look at the wallpaper i made that this person said would not be accepted
<thorwil> sure
<geek_ubuntu> thanks
<geek_ubuntu> do you want me to send you the image file? or upload to tiny pic?
<thorwil> i'd suggest http://www.piccdrop.com/
<geek_ubuntu> okay will do
<geek_ubuntu> 1 min
<geek_ubuntu> here you go http://pic.piccdrop.com/i/c/1243244399.png
<geek_ubuntu> i need to make the text more brighter i think?
<geek_ubuntu> what you think?
<thorwil> geek_ubuntu, looks like you squashed the logo and text. never do that
<geek_ubuntu> ok
<thorwil> but having the logo and "ubuntu" text on backgrounds isn't that great an idea
<geek_ubuntu> as there are already enough? i get it thanks
<thorwil> right
<thorwil> it looks like a sign of insecurity to shout out ubuntu in that way
<geek_ubuntu> so try to avoid using the ubuntu yecy
<geek_ubuntu> ubuntu logo
<thorwil> yes
<geek_ubuntu> will do thanks for the answers
<thorwil> while it's fine, even much needed, imho, to explore other colors than brown and orange, you should still think about what ubuntu stands for.
<geek_ubuntu> some guy name kn100 said the colours had to be orange and brown
<geek_ubuntu> ok thanks
<thorwil> geek_ubuntu, have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds
<geek_ubuntu> so basically make it open attractive and clean?
<thorwil> using brown and orange might improve the chances of being used, but Mark Shuttleworth himself said that other options shall be considered for karmic koala
<thorwil> geek_ubuntu, check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Briefing and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Message
<geek_ubuntu> i going for creating abstract walllpapers
<geek_ubuntu> how is this for an abstract wallpaper i made for ubuntu http://pic.piccdrop.com/i/c/1243247179.jpg
<geek_ubuntu> what you think
<geek_ubuntu> ?
<knome> maybe too abstract for general usage, but it's not bad.
<geek_ubuntu> thanks
<knome> the colors are quite bright and lively for a background
<knome> i like the middle top section
<geek_ubuntu> i know the colurs wer slightly lower but i sharpened it so they stand out more
<geek_ubuntu> shall i upload the unsharpened image
<knome> yeah - but you don't want *back*ground to stand out ;)
<geek_ubuntu> okay 1 min
<andreasn> geek_ubuntu, in a odd way it reminds me of MDK ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDK_(video_game) )
<knome> andreasn, you are correct :P
<knome> the left and right side remind me of an audi (car)
<geek_ubuntu> here's the unsharpened version http://pic.piccdrop.com/i/c/1243247619.jpg
<geek_ubuntu> there is a slight difference in colour
<geek_ubuntu> do you think its still alright with using this unsharpened version?
<knome> i personally would not use that as background
<knome> but as i said, it's not bad.
<geek_ubuntu> how is it for the vast majority of people who like detail?
<geek_ubuntu> can i post this on the ubuntu forums to see what other people think?
<geek_ubuntu> if so which version? sharpened or unsharpened?
<geek_ubuntu> should i post?
<geek_ubuntu> .
<geek_ubuntu> ?
<geek_ubuntu> speak later
<thorwil> geek_ubuntu, welcome back. i think the not sharpened version is nicer. in both cases, the center part with the thin swirls is the best part. just something like that on the whole area could be really nice
<elky> i prefer the unsharpened version too
<SiDi> hey people
<SiDi> _MMA_: you wrote inherit Humah instead of Human for Breathe rev43
<SiDi> hope you change it before release
<_MMA_> SiDi: Fixed. Thanx. Pull rev.45
<SiDi> i fixed it manually on my side :)
<SiDi> knome: you around ?
<_MMA_> Damn. Means I gotta fix the .tar also.
<_MMA_> *Fixed
<SiDi> okey:)
<geek_ubuntu> when is the closing date for wallpaper contributions to karmic Ubuntu 9.10?
<geek_ubuntu>  
<SiDi> in a long time
<_MMA_> 4-5 months
<geek_ubuntu> ok thanks
<knome> SiDi, now i am.
<SiDi> knome: now im workin at a friend's house tho :D
<knome> ok :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-26
<thorwil> kwwii, hi. seems we are now running into the wiki "surge protection" with the Backgrounds page
<thorwil> kwwii, maybe you could talk with newz about that
<SiDi> hi thorwil
<thorwil> hi SiDi
<SiDi> couldnt we try to use some markup such as tables as fedora seems to do ?
<SiDi> tables with just a pic + the author's name in each cell
<SiDi> would be easier to read than this huge file
<thorwil> SiDi, do you know how table markup looks like?
<thorwil> it's terrible for editing
<SiDi> hm, true :p
<SiDi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds#Coala%20del%20karma
<SiDi> I like these ones
<thorwil> is that the elephant skin texture in there?
<kwwii> thorwil: hi
<kwwii> thorwil: not sure what you mean
<SiDi> I think the guy took some textures here n there yeh. But apart from that big logo, i like the overall aspect of the pic
<thorwil> kwwii, it's an issue that arises if you have many images on a page. at some point, the wiki decides to show only some, but not all images
<thorwil> kwwii, if you then try to see an image attachment or hi Reload imediately, you get a warning about the surge protection
<thorwil> kwwii, and that you will get a longer timeout if you try to load right again
<kwwii> thorwil: thanks for mentioning it...I'll find newz later today and see what I can do about it
<thorwil> kwwii, good :)
<kwwii> oh wait, I think he went home already
<kwwii> but anyway, I will take care of it ;)
<kwwii> I love the meditating koala, btw...nice stuff! We should talk to the author some more and see what we can get out of it
<kwwii> the netbook peeps liked it as well
<thorwil> kwwii, in this case we is mainly you ;)
<thorwil> kwwii, i'm happy to offer further guidance if and where needed, but the "we want to use that" must come from canonical
<thorwil> it's one skilled guy and very open to suggestions
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, I intend on getting in touch with him soon. if nothing else, for the alpha it would be perfect
<thorwil> oh, how cruel: http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/05/26/uds-where-did-all-the-coffee-go
<knome> hah
<knome> don't they serve coke?
<zniavre_> http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8951/capturew.png > vous saviez ca vous?
<zniavre_> oops pardon
<zniavre_> sorry *
<savvas> lies!
<savvas> cute background :)
<savvas> zniavre_: how did you make that icon reflection on the lower left corner?
<zniavre_> it's a rhythmbox plugin called desktop-art
<zniavre_> background is with gnome-background pack (synaptic)
<SiDi> any inkscape pro around ? :]
<SiDi> I'd like to know if i can colour the start/end arrows of a line ?
<knome> SiDi, i don't think you can separately
<SiDi> aaaw
<SiDi> And is there a way to turn my arrow into paths that i can then colorize ?
<knome> not as separate paths
<knome> :P
<SiDi> And is there a way to get a sexy pink line+arrow at end whatever the method ? :D
<knome> sure!
<knome> path -> stroke to path
<knome> oh my
<knome> actually, just ungroup the stroke and the arrow
<knome> or ctrl+click the arrow
<SiDi> Yay \o/
<SiDi> Thanks knome :D
<SiDi> i'll show you my blue pdf for my oral exam tomorrow, give me a min :P
<knome> hehe ok
<SiDi> Argh
<SiDi> when i render my image to pdf i lose a letter in one of the words x_x
<savvas> render it using which program? inkscape?
<SiDi> Yeh
<andreasn> SiDi, is it for print?
<SiDi> no its for a screen :)
<SiDi> re-rendering all my svg's to pdf atm
<SiDi> knome : http://filebin.ca/xwybab
<SiDi> sexy blue :P
<knome> nice
<knome> a bit purpleish
<knome> "trackhttpd"
<knome> "bar"
<SiDi> it wont render well with a video projection but well :P
<SiDi> yeh, its because the reztorrent slide had "foo" :p
<SiDi> and of course, just to change a little, only my part of the work is done ^^
<knome> have to go. see you later.
<SiDi> see you
<macvr> hi , anyone knows how to change the window background color of inkscape?
<thorwil> macvr, do you mean the canvas color?
<thorwil> if so, that's in File -> Document Properties, Page tab, General section
<macvr> thorwil: i meant the display? i have set the canvas to transparent but the display is white , which makes it difficult to assess the colors
<thorwil> macvr, with zero alpha, you see the always white background
<thorwil> push the alpha up to get the color you specified
<macvr> thorwil: so i can change the color first and then i can change it back to 0 alpha?
<thorwil> sure
<macvr> thorwil: but that wont have any change in the picture i'm creating, right?
<thorwil> macvr, the alpha value does have an effect on exported raster images
<thorwil> with zero, you get fully transparent background. a png will have an alpha channel in this case
<thorwil> with 255 alpha, you get an export with solid color background
<macvr> thorwil:damn,  so there is no way of having the checks similar to the ones used in gimp? during editing? the only problem is i have difficukty judging the colors correctly!
<macvr> difficulty^
<thorwil> macvr, i'm not aware of a way to get inkscape to draw a checkerboard. other than drawing it yourself
<macvr> thorwil: oh... :( i think i just need to adjust! using gimp i got used to the checkers and the color selections... thanx anyway :)
<thorwil> np
<thorwil> i sometimes change the white to medium grey or black, depending on what i'm working on
<macvr> thorwil: i think i'll do the same... but now... i'm trying to add the checker board to the layer below, lets see if that works
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-27
<liveD> hi
<liveD> hi
<liveD> can i link you my desktop mockup for gnome 3 shell?
<knome> liveD, i already saw it on the ml. that was not bad at all, even if i don't know much about gnome
<andreasn> knome, where can one see it?
<knome> andreasn, ah, it came through "contact team" from launchpad. tell me your email and i'll fw it to you
<andreasn> nisses.mail@home.se
<knome> fw'd
<andreasn> knome, contact what team? ubuntu art team?
<knome> yes, ubuntu-art
<knome> andreasn, see the footer from the original email
<andreasn> ah, there :)
<andreasn> do you have his contact details?
<andreasn> oh, there
<knome> see the header on the original email :P
<andreasn> sorry for asking stupid questions, sometimes I should probably try to READ
<knome> if you send him mail, please forward him to send mails to the ubuntu-artwork ml in the future so more people have access to them
<andreasn> well, he should actually send e-mails about the shell to the gnome-shell list
<andreasn> so I'll forward him to that list and ask him to get in contact with Marina
<knome> maybe, but if he wants them to be discussed for including in ubuntu, ubuntu-art is the right ML
<knome> i don't know a lot about gnome as i said earlier
<andreasn> it seemed like his ideas was mostly about new interaction ideas for the shell and Marina in in charge of that
<andreasn> and I don't think she's on the ubuntu-art list
<knome> yeah. don't know really as i said :)
 * robsta kwwii hi
<robsta> argh what am i typing
<thorwil> robsta, "argh what am i typing"
<robsta> hi thorwil
 * thorwil waves
<MadsRH> Hi, can anyone tell me what was discussed during the "Karmic GDM Greeter" session today? I can't find any Gobby document :'(
<benjamim> Hi guys, Any news from Karmic new theme ?
<thorwil> benjamim, i guess you have to wait a bit, until something might hit the blogs. but don't expect much
<SiDi> hi people
<thorwil> hi SiDi
<SiDi> heya thorwil
<benjamim> thanks Thorwil
<SiDi> who from artwork team is at uds ?
<thorwil> SiDi, everyone at canonical, no one else, for all i know
<SiDi> that means kwwii ? :D
<thorwil> SiDi, in this channel kwwii and arusha, but i think she twittered that it was time to travel back home already
<SiDi> ah
<SiDi> well, i wont see him then :p
<SiDi> just arrived in spain
<SiDi> Warning:
<SiDi> You triggered the wiki's surge protection by doing too many requests in a short time
<SiDi> .... ok
<savvas> SiDi: default xubuntu has gedit or some other simple text editor?
<SiDi> mousepad
<SiDi> i use gedit though
<savvas> cool, thanks :)
<SiDi> savvas, testing xubuntu ? :D
<savvas> yes, I want to see that background you made :P
<savvas> just kidding, I'm writing some python classes and in the introduction I need to include the default editors :)
<savvas> SiDi: I made my brother install xubuntu on an old laptop though :p
<savvas> another happily converted user hehe
<SiDi> savvas, its knome's background btw :p
<savvas> details details
 * savvas runs
<savvas> :)
<SiDi> i might install a xubuntu here during my travel in barcelona
<SiDi> a legal windows XP sP3 bugged by the genius "Windows guenine advantage epic failure program"
<knome> hmmh?
<knome> which BG are we talking about
<SiDi> the 9.04 one
<knome> right.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-28
<Viper550> Okay, I think Kubuntu needs a special theme on Koala
<knome> Okay, are you willing to do it? ;)
<Viper550> as in, I'm working on a new look for Ark Linux's KDE 4 right now too. Right now I'm in qt-designer working on an installer UI
<knome> right. :)
<knome> sounds goo.
<knome> +d
<Viper550> yeah, I absolutely ''love'' the stylesheet stuff in qt4
<Viper550> http://bayimg.com/NaaFhaacD
<knome> :)
<Viper550> nice stuff?
<knome> yeah
<knome> don't know much about qt or kde, though.
<marti1125> hola
<knome> helo marti1125
<marti1125> hello :D
<marti1125> my first time in thi room
<knome> you have to start somewhere, right? :)
<marti1125> yes
<marti1125> there something new
<knome> where? :)
<kwwii> moin moin
<thorwil> good morning
<SiDi> hi
<andreasn> kwwii, hi! have you seen https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=426930#c35
<ubottu> Mozilla bug 426930 in Theme ""Close" icon in File menu looks pixellated/gross on Linux" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<andreasn> to summarize: humans close icon seems to be 8x8, while all other icon themes ship it as 16x16, and this is causing issues in firefox
<andreasn> as mozilla's menu icon size expects a 16x16
<andreasn> and I can't really remember why the one in human in 8x8, but I somewhat remember some discussion on the close button on the (old) notification bubbles
<kwwii> andreasn: nope, haven't seen that yet...let me check it out
<andreasn> a possible fix might be to place the current 8x8 icon in the middle of a 16x16 canvas
<thorwil> kwwii, in synaptic, it says for ttf-ubuntu-title: "This font was used to create the lettering of the ubuntu log ..."
<kwwii> andreasn: yeah, that would probably fix it
<kwwii> thorwil: ouch, then that is wrong
<kwwii> thorwil: can you create a bug against the font package about that?
<andreasn> kwwii, do you have a mozilla bugzilla id so I can put you in cc?
<thorwil> kwwii, i'll try :)
<andreasn> or should I create a bug about it in launchpad?
<kwwii> thorwil: btw, how did you contact Necropotame?
<thorwil> kwwii, very unfortunate to have the title font, but not the better titling
<thorwil> kwwii, i just commented on the page, but you can follow his LP link
<kwwii> andreasn: no, I do not have a moz bug id
<kwwii> thorwil: right, just wondered if you knew his personal email
<kwwii> I'll get a hol dof him throgh the interface then
<kwwii> andreasn: freaky enough, the gtk-close icon also exists at 16x16
<andreasn> oh
<thorwil> kwwii, if you have an archive of the mailing list, you might find an address there. at the same time get to know if he's on the list
<kwwii> thorwil: right, but I don't have it with me here in spain
<kwwii> anyway, I'll contact him
<andreasn> kwwii, what size is being used in the menus of gtk apps like rhythmbox (I can't remember for sure if it's in there, but I think it is)
<andreasn> ?
<kwwii> 8x8 I think
<kwwii> I do not have my gnome system with me
<kwwii> only osx and kde
<andreasn> thorwil, do you run human-icon-theme now?
<thorwil> andreasn, nope. tangerine
<andreasn> I'll try it later today, need to get some other stuff out of the way first
<andreasn> kwwii, will you be around later today?
<thorwil> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ttf-ubuntu-title/+bug/381245
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 381245 in ttf-ubuntu-title "Wrong description" [Undecided,New]
<kwwii> andreasn: yes, i will be online during all of the tracks
<kwwii> thorwil: rocking, thanks
<andreasn> cool, I'll catch you later then
<kwwii> andreasn: I bet it is a matter of a missing symlink
<kwwii> have fun!
<kwwii> me is off for a smoke and then lunch
<kwwii> bbl
<kwwii> re
<SiDi> tomorrow is the artwork session
<SiDi> everyone, take the plane to barcelona ? :P
<thorwil> http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/6990/3626399500x500.jpg
<SiDi> lol
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-29
<zniavre> http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3461/capturesle.png
<zniavre> im trying to make screenlets al my friend told me it's a bit "empty" what do you think about it ?
<zniavre> all*
<andreasn> kwwii, hm, maybe this is related: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/human-icon-theme/+bug/46801
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 46801 in human-icon-theme "Bad close icon" [Medium,Fix released]
<robsta> hiya
<robsta> how's things andreasn?
<SiDi> kwwii, nice artwork session :p
<thorwil> SiDi, what did I miss?
<SiDi> thorwil, they talked about wallpapers with naked people oO
<zniavre> :o)
<thorwil> SiDi, cool. i thought that was history
<SiDi> ah i was the only guy without badge tho
<SiDi> so i think kwwii didnt spot me :p
<thorwil> what, you don't have a t-shirt with your nick on it?!
<SiDi> No
<SiDi> i came too late
<SiDi> no t-shirt
<SiDi> im so disappointed :(
<knome> ...haha
<SiDi> no haha allowed !
<knome> yes haha allowed
<SiDi> no no :(
<knome> and recommended ;)
<knome> no dependencies though
<andreasn> robsta, all well, and you?
<robsta> andreasn: no complaints, not much time for pet projects though :)
<thorwil> the repo told me it feels lonely
<robsta> thorwil: really need to set up pioneer boilerplate stuff
<thorwil> robsta, yeah. i'm waiting to see at least something to bring back my motivation. plus i'm going to do freelance work now
<SiDi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUrKCSWXykQ
<SiDi> thoughts ?
<thorwil> icon and bar seem to be unnecessary duplication
<SiDi> ofc the bar will go to hell
<SiDi> im at uds plenary session atm, not very easy to inkscape xD
 * thorwil -> cycling
<SiDi> let me finish the icons and write a proper spec. I may also write the patch for gnome-power-manager soon ! :P
<SiDi> Does anyone know the original author / license for the Human notify-osd icons ?
<thorwil> argh! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WebsiteButtons
<SiDi> kwwii, if someone made more notification-battery-* icons, would you consider them for a possible inclusion in Human theme ?
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-30
<kn100> hey, hows work on the new iconset coming along
 * kwwii wakes up, back at home after two weeks. cooks breakfast
<SiDi> Hi people
<kwwii> hi SiDi
<SiDi> Hello kwwii
<kwwii> yes, I did miss you in the session
<kwwii> :p
<SiDi> :D
<SiDi> i was sitting on the left of sarts
<SiDi> with a white t-shirt :p and i, ahem, didnt speak :p
<SiDi> btw i got a question to ask you :p
<SiDi> finished some extra notification-battery- icons yesterday for a mockup
<SiDi> and i'd like to know, since the current notification- icons are not yet in the standard naming specs, if its feasible to add icons to Human
<kwwii> you can put extra icons in the package directly
<kwwii> or are they in the style of the current notification icons?
<kwwii> not sure I understand exactly what we are discusisng ;)
<SiDi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WKdipXSNs0 :P
<SiDi> http://filebin.ca/octsou/notification-battery-icons_0.1.tar.gz
 * kwwii fires up inkscape
<kwwii> hrm, those should replace the current ones, right?
<kwwii> and as the current ones are from canonical, it is not so easy to replace them
<kwwii> we might suggest this to the designer who did the current stuff
<SiDi> Well, these dont exist at the moment, for notifications
<SiDi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/NotifyOsd
<kwwii> currently we are limiting the usage of color
<SiDi> See the end of this
<kwwii> I suggest sending an email to the art list with your stuff, rendered and a link to the svg's as well as a pointer to that page and a quick explanation of what you propose
<kwwii> that way we can work on it from an artwork perspective
<SiDi> okeyz
<kwwii> me wanders off, grocery shopping and such...bbl
<kn1001> hey guys, i need a quick hand with Inkscape
<kn1001> i am trying to make a music folder icon for the new breathe iconset, but when i open the stock_folder.svg file it will NOT let me draw onto it. It says to unhide a layer, but how would you do that/
<kn1001> I'm quite new to this, but am finding it VERY similar to my last graphics package, so it seems very easy
<thorwil> kn1001, hit Ctrl+Shift+L for the layers panel
<thorwil> it's also in the menus somewhere
<thorwil> gotta run, bbl
<kn1001> thorwil: Thanks!
<kn1001> that worked!
<SiDi> hi thorwil btw :p
<kn1001> hey, in the ubuntu-home icon, is there any way i can find out the exact values used for the gradient on the home part of it?
<thorwil> yo SiDi
<SiDi> thorwil, give me feedback on this please : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-May/010514.html :p
<thorwil> SiDi, i think you should either try to make the icon look cylindrical, or like a cut through a battery
<thorwil> in the later case, the walls on top and bottom would have to be thinner, i guess
<thorwil> should look more like metal, less like plastic
<SiDi> well, i stayed with the original design of notification-* icons
<SiDi> which are a bit "cartoon"
<SiDi> ill try to do what you mean and see what it gives
<thorwil> oh, i was in Breathe mode ;)
<SiDi> your breathe doesnt depend on human ? /p
<thorwil> hmm?
<SiDi> I got Breathe to depend on Human theme, so i get Human notification- icons :P
<SiDi> you meant you were in "Breathe Brain Mode" ? :P
<thorwil> yeah
<thorwil> after disabling notifications on incoming email, i get none at all
<SiDi> ahah
<thorwil> (except those stupid custom firefox download-finished things)
<SiDi> i get them for wifi/music/firefox downloads/battery low/brightness :P
<SiDi> and im coding the daemon to get the volume ones in xubuntu
<dashua> SiDi: Battery icons are sweet.  Pushed a few more changes to Hanso.  Criticism welcomed as always :)
<SiDi> dashua, alright :P
<SiDi> i've got to go buy food soon tho
<dashua> Yummy
<SiDi> i'm back :d
<SiDi> macvr, ping
<macvr> SiDi: hi...
<SiDi> macvr, hi
<SiDi> you're the person who submitted the nm icons, right ?
<macvr> SiDi: yup..
<SiDi> okey :P
<SiDi> i'm gonna give you my point of view over it here then, cause i tend to have epic failures with the mailing list ;)
<SiDi> just wanted to say, i do like the curved one, but i think the colours need a bit of tweaking
<SiDi> the orange in nm-signal-50 is quite aggressive
<SiDi> almost red, while it is common to have a signal ~50% in public places
<macvr> SiDi: they are just in prelim stage... colors are difficult for me since i'm getting used to the white background of inkscape..:(
<SiDi> the best to do is to try the icons in "real life", macvr ;)
<SiDi> did you check how the dark grey would render on white / dark panels yet ?
<macvr> SiDi: that is why it is taking time...
<SiDi> I think white could give a better result, you should try it too
<macvr> yeah i know that the grey was wrong too...
<macvr> its just that sometimes when i change the icon themes , my firefox crashes!
<SiDi> huh :P
<macvr> so i try to use test it less. :(
<SiDi> Thats a bad bug :o
<SiDi> Do you use a custom firefox theme or something particular ? :/
<macvr> no...
<macvr> but i usually have a flash running , so that probably is the problem
<macvr> SiDi: i know that the colors are a huge problem, but since Cory has been quite resistent to new nm icons i havent paid much attention to the colors , so was basically trying to get the design approved before i get to making them better looking
<SiDi> dashua, Hanso still breaks my panel hard :D
<SiDi> macvr, imo colours are part of the design :) the curved shape is really great, but i now want to see it with well tested colours, and rendered in little size
<SiDi> Dont forget to render in little sizes when you add a submission btw
<SiDi> it helps seeing the final result
<macvr> SiDi: i'm just not sure how to get that template to work? how does the breathe template work? does it render all the sizes on my desktop or only on bazar?
<SiDi> Oh, i don't know either :D
<SiDi> I didnt make any breathe icon ;)
<SiDi> I think they export PNGs in different sizes manually, doing tweaks if they think its needed
<SiDi> and then they make the PNG preview icon they put in submissions
<SiDi> (or... they use a secret script :p)
<macvr> there was some mention about the script , ....  but i get ur point of the colors being part of the design... will try to get the colors right, only recently i'v figured out shadows,lighting in inkscape
<SiDi> Oh, there are still many things i didnt figure at all :D
<SiDi> Fortunately i only need it for some quick diagrams for presentations, i dont actually do artwork ^^
<macvr> SiDi: actually on testing the orange doesnt look that bad , i thought i could add more brightness!
<macvr> SiDi: i too do this mainly as a hobby...
<SiDi> dashua, feedback on Hanso : looks coffee-ish :) I like it but i also regret the tabs are now smoother, cause i liked the look of the old ones. I suppose the color changes of the toolbar are done for better integration with metacity, and my xfwm is abit late on this
<SiDi> dashua, so i think i'll have to change the xfwm ? :D Also, i really dont like the grey-brown color when you hover a scrollbar, it doesnt fit the theme. I'd use a creamy brown instead.
<SiDi> dashua, also, i dont think using a pixmap engine for panels is a good approach. I think its better to provide a panel image for those who have "default size" 24px panels, but with any other size, and with vertical panels, Hanso is broken
<SiDi> macvr, i dont have anything about the use of orange itself, i just think 50% should be green/yellow more than orange/red as its actually a "working but a bit slow" wifi ;)
<SiDi> macvr, and not a "careful, almost broken" wifi (thatd be 35-40%
<SiDi> :D
<macvr> SiDi: ok... i guess i have to think broader... i get ur point, i'll test it with yellow , and update the icons.... is anything wrong with the  ubuntu server? i get some mails late
<SiDi> hm, dont know
<SiDi> it has a lot of mails to send, sometimes routing an email takes time when your own mail provider is busy
<SiDi> sometimes you're greylisted by a provider and mails come one day late, too
<SiDi> check https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/ if you wanna see if theres a new email
<macvr> SiDi: i just got a reply wher someon asked for the orange to look like the go-home icon orange! similar to the one i had chosen!
<SiDi> macvr, i'll have to post on the ML to disagree then XD
<SiDi> I really dont think an half signal should have such a strong colour ;)
<macvr> SiDi: he he
<SiDi> for instance, human uses only blue, even for ~25% signal
<macvr> SiDi: i do get ur point... maybe as u said i'll try yellowish
<macvr> SiDi: but human is probably older by 5 yrs or so... the icons are hi-color set , so probably the restrictions
<SiDi> thats true :p
<SiDi> what icon will you use for a broken connection ?
<SiDi> you'll keep the big '!' ?
<macvr> SiDi: for no signal?
<SiDi> yes
<macvr> yeah i will keep the "!"
<SiDi> because i thought about that : if an user shuts the connection down manually (i mean, uncheck "Enable wireless network") because he doesnt want his pc to auto connect, for instance
<SiDi> then an exclamation mark might not be appropriated, as it is used for drawing the attention, while the user would only want to shutdown wifi and doesnt want to be told he did shut it down
<macvr> SiDi: that instance the wired connection disconnect kicks in
<SiDi> But i fear its the same icon for a broken connection and a disabled wifi
<macvr> no signal, because once the wireless doesnt connect , the system checks for the wired connection and if that is not connected, the , wired-disconnected is displayed... no signal rarely kicks in,
<macvr> no-signal icon never used!
<SiDi> ah
<SiDi> thats actually true :p
<macvr> i just liked the "!" , thats y i added it :P
<macvr> but i use that icon with notify-osd... ,
<macvr> for connection lost
<SiDi> hm, it could be great if you can get a list of the icon names, make a quick (even not finished at all, like : big fuschia circle, big green triangle, etc :p) icon for all the names, and use it to see when icons are used
<macvr> ^? i didnt understand
<SiDi> Make a theme with an icon for all the currently existing names, with "fake" icons, and use it to see when icons kick in
<SiDi> That'll help you to know when an icon is used in the good context, when you put your own Breathe icons in this "testing" theme
<macvr> sorry, was away... i did something like that initially...but when the no signal icon is never used  , it still needs to be created,right? to make the icon set complete!
<macvr> SiDi: is James Schriver > dashua? because i think he suggested the orange from go-home... would the yellow from the first nm-signal-50 be a better choice?
<SiDi> macvr, actually maybe you shall make several icons with colours :)
<SiDi> maybe i'll myself pick your icons and try colours on my side too
<macvr> SiDi: did u try the reconnection animation?
 * _MMA_ waves
<SiDi> hi _MMA_
<SiDi> macvr, no, i only saw the stuff in animations
<SiDi> macvr, i usually dont touch Breathe till someone sends me a .deb with the icons <- incarnal of laziness
<SiDi> macvr, where can i get the animation ones ?
<richwjones> Breathe is looking good.. will that be default in karmic?
<macvr> SiDi: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-May/010477.html i'v attached to this mail... its my set of png...
<SiDi> They're sexy, but they dont fit with the signal icons :P
<_MMA_> macvr: That would be my only criticism as well. They just don't have the same feel as the current icons.
<macvr> SiDi: u mean fit as in >that the png look different from the svg? or ?
<_MMA_> Stylistically
<macvr> _MMA_: oh... they dont fit with the breathe icon set? ok...
<_MMA_> macvr: That said, we might be able to get one of the other guys to bring it around for you to use as a base. That might help.
<macvr> _MMA_: that would be nice...
<_MMA_> macvr: I'll see what I can do.
<macvr> _MMA_: if it is made to fit , i could complete the set , its just that the reconnect needs a new look :)
<_MMA_> k
 * _MMA_ does *not* wanna deal with DevianArt. (only wants to put it there for advertising)
<_MMA_> "it" = Breathe
<macvr> _MMA_: the other day u were asking for portfolio... i didnt understand , thought u were asking about any previous iconset i had created! > http://drvi.deviantart.com/ < this is my actual "published" work :P
<_MMA_> macvr: No. *Any* art you've done. ;)
<macvr> _MMA_: i got confused!  only after receiving the mailing list "joining" i realized what u meant...
<_MMA_> ;)
<SiDi> macvr, that the icons of the animation represent an antenna, but different from the signal one
<SiDi> (The "art" i've done myself is censored, for the sake of my reputation :p)
<_MMA_> Really? :)
 * _MMA_ is curious now.
<_MMA_> Hi Rico
<rsc___> hey mma.
<rsc___> what's up?
<_MMA_> Not much. Doing some Breathe stuff and unwinding from work.
<rsc___> how's breathe coming along?
<_MMA_> rsc: You not been watchin' the list?
<_MMA_> rsc: Alot of info there but a direct answer would be "Very well."
<_MMA_> We just had our 1st official release.
<_MMA_> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Breathe+Icon+Theme?content=105873
 * _MMA_ -> Shower
<SiDi> _MMA_, i wait for the bigger comment for the notification-battery icons ^_^
<rsc___> _MMA_: been taking quite a break, sorry i havent been in the loop :)
<rsc___> looking nice
<rsc___> i see the folder hasn't changed since
<_MMA_> rsc: Nope. Minor revisions but nothing compelling has come along to replace it.. The discussion on a change is ongoing.
<SiDi> What do you have against this poor folder ?
<macvr> SiDi: the straight on look ! ...
<_MMA_> Everyone has to realize this thing *has* to look like a mashup between the Human and Oxygen ones. Little details make all the difference.
<_MMA_> And of the ones (submissions) where the perspective has changed, they just haven't hit that "Feels like a mashup" mark for me.
<_MMA_> Or "Like an evolution".
<macvr> _MMA_: just changing the perspective of the present folder to the angle of the sebastian's folder... ? how would that be? just a thought... :)
 * _MMA_ looks for Sebastien's folder.
<macvr> its in the discussions
<_MMA_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Discussion
<_MMA_> macvr: It's generally fine, but I'm really hoping someone comes along with something a bit different.
<_MMA_> Hits little details (the dots and glow) but has a different spin WRT the perspective.
<macvr> _MMA_: yeah... different would be nice, but until that comes along...the folder of sebastien's angle would make it look sexier now! :)
<_MMA_> macvr: Please see: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-May/010506.html
<macvr> _MMA_: i think u got me wrong... the present folder looks great , but adding perspective would be better IMAO
<macvr> _MMA_: actually i didnt like the lesser red idea... but didnt wanna comment and be the black sheep :)
<_MMA_> Sure sure. But that post sums up my general feelings re: Folder change.
<macvr> _MMA_: since i think the folder would "glow" in dark nautilus backgrounds!
<macvr> _MMA_: i understand , u are trying to replace human...
<_MMA_> macvr: Since that's an uncommon occurrence, I'm not designing for that. ;)
<macvr> _MMA_: i meant with the modification[lesser red], the folder is more bright!
<macvr> _MMA_: replacing is fine but human icon set is old! more and more "new" icon sets seem to be adding the perspective! i think its more the "iron man" effect! so thought that just adding the perspective would spice up the folders! just my 2cents! but since u know more about the dev, u must be a better judge of their mindset...
<macvr> _MMA_: have u had the time to look at the second set i'v uploaded earlier or did u comment only after having a look?
<macvr> _MMA_: ping
<_MMA_> macvr: The very act of using "_MMA_" in your 1st post is a ping. No need to actually say it. :P
<macvr> _MMA_: i thought u dosed off! :P
<_MMA_> macvr: No. Just other things to do. ;) And I looked before I commented.
<macvr> _MMA_: ok... thanx ... any help to improve would be nice ...
<SiDi> Am i allowed to troll more about the ms-dos mimetype icon ?
<macvr> SiDi: i love it!
<SiDi> I'm deadly serious when i say i'd never accept a windows logo on my desktop :] (not only for patent reason)
<_MMA_> Sure. If you're looking for help now, I can't help ya. Trying to take care of some things and relax on my weekend.
<SiDi> Yeh, it can be as sexy as it wants to. First, the app that manages ms-dos is wine, not windows, Second, this is likely a patent violation, and also a recognition that we can't live without having windows beside us.
<macvr> SiDi: actually i feel like i'm using the M$ as a small piece, just minisculling it !!!
<SiDi> I dont think Microsoft has an Ubuntu logo for our binaries :]
<_MMA_> SiDi: My comments on the list are how I feel.
<macvr> _MMA_: no not right now!
<_MMA_> np
<SiDi> I see what you mean _MMA_ :)
<SiDi> that could be a solution, but a non-windows and non-wine logo would drive the users in confusion : what is this icon, what is this program ?
 * _MMA_ notes latest (just a min ago) post.
<macvr> _MMA_: i was saying that i would appreciate , the help to come :)
<SiDi> And i do prefer associationg windows binaries to wine, even if i'm said to prefer so for political reasons :d
<_MMA_> ;)
<macvr> _MMA_: anyway see you later, and if u could get some one to breathe the icons... just ping me :P ... i meant mail...
<_MMA_> sure
<macvr> bye
<macvr> _MMA_: hi... <in general do not use "sebastian" on screens> what does this "sebastian" mean?
<macvr> i'v seen Daniel use it a lot in his mails... just didnt understand what he means by that??
<_MMA_> His native language in not English.
<_MMA_> He's just saying Sebastien (our lead artist) doesn't use gloss on screens.
<_MMA_> (generally)
<macvr> oh... ok
<macvr>  thanx...
<_MMA_> np
<macvr> may a great weekend... bye
<macvr> have
<_MMA_> same
<SiDi> updated submissions with a wine ms-dos logo \o/
<_MMA_> SiDi: Only thing I have against that (and has been argued on other lists) is that WINE is for Windows folks. Plain and simple. So the mimi should be recognizable to them. The WINE glass is not.
<_MMA_> *mine
<_MMA_> dammit
<_MMA_> *mime
<SiDi> Well, if we want to associate the mime with the icon of the handler
<SiDi> then wine should be used
<SiDi> and wine is also used by companies like google for stable windows versions of their apps
<SiDi> it has official support by Spotify too, for instance, till someone codes them a linux client
<SiDi> but if we associate wine apps with a windows logo, we say "the app that handles that and that we think you should use  is : windows"
<_MMA_> SiDi: Also, that was damn lazy. You just grabbed the Tangoish icon and stuck it on the blank file to prove your point. You know that wouldn't be used. ;)
<dashua> SiDi: Alright mate. that panel issue is an easy fix and already committed justs needs uncommenting
<SiDi> I took the official icon :D but its lazy indeed
<dashua> The prelight on the scrollbat does look a bit green.  I will fix that.  Notebook tab you think the original are better?
<SiDi> dashua, yeh i know, but you should better put the pixmap code in comment and add a line about it in release note instead of risking breakage while releasing Hanso ;)
<dashua> I'll change
<SiDi> dashua, theyre not "better"
<SiDi> the new ones fit better with Hanso
<SiDi> i just have a preference for the style of the old ones, but with your changes the current tabs are very consistent
<dashua> Ok, I was kind of torn on that, but I felt they integrated better
<SiDi> actually it looks like (i know the word isnt adapted) more creamy than before
<SiDi> like coffee, indeed :D
<dashua> Ok, thanks for the feedback
<dashua> Yeah, that's what I was going for
<dashua> Cream and contrast :P
<_MMA_> SiDi: And just because you can point to a few small examples doesn't mean it oughtweighs the overwhelming fact that WINE if few people coming from Windows and My view is that a similar "Windows logo would help them.
<SiDi> :p
<_MMA_> ;)
<SiDi> _MMA_, i'm coming from windows indeed, even if i dont use it and make people pass onto linux when i can :D But, i use wine for apps that i never used on windows ;)
<_MMA_> Damn. *is for people...
<dashua> _MMA_: Please don't let the folder be changed.  I am the only one -1 for the new revisions.
<_MMA_> SiDi: Again, in the minority.
<SiDi> _MMA_, should we still consider it such a failure that we prefer to associate msdos files with windows instead of linux's own msdos file handler ?
<SiDi> Also, it answers another preoccupation of ex-windows users : how do i run windows apps ?
<SiDi> if we say run it with wine, it helps them to understand
<SiDi> when they dont have wine installed and have a wine glass icon for their exe, at least they have an hint
<SiDi> _MMA_, did you follow Scott Ritchie's work about icons for exe files during UDS btw ?
<_MMA_> No
<_MMA_> 1 sec
<_MMA_> dashua: Trust me, it will be a hard fight. Especially as time goes on.
<dashua> ;)
<dashua> Focal point of the set IMO
<_MMA_> SiDi: Also note that the "official" WINE icons were take from my Studio set. ;)
<SiDi> _MMA_, you should be proud of that, shouldnt you ? :D
<_MMA_> SiDi: Not really. :P They were given to me.
<SiDi> So, Scott Ritchie wanted to patch nautilus to directly show the original icon of the exe file, *alongside a wine mini icon in a corner*
<_MMA_> I credit them somewhere. Forgot the name.
<SiDi> you should point that to wine devs to make sure they credit the good people :D
<_MMA_> SiDi: Showing the original icon would be great.
<SiDi> i have the feeling i wont code tonight
<dashua> SiDi: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/15349/screenshot_CR21Dy.png
<dashua> Changes committed.  I'm starting to love notify-osd
<SiDi> Yar :D
<SiDi> what is that thing letting you watch bzr revisions ? Oo
<dashua> It's in synaptic
<dashua> bzr-notify
<dashua> Bazaar Notification
<SiDi> aptitude search bzr
<SiDi> which do you have please ?
<SiDi> i dont have bzr-notify
<dashua> bzr-gtk maybe
<dashua> I can't remember =/
<SiDi> yeh apparently
<SiDi> that thing depends on nautilus x_x
<_MMA_> odd
<_MMA_> See what it needs it for. I've filed so many bugs aginst faulse depends.
<_MMA_> *false
<SiDi> theres a bzr-nautilus.py in source
<SiDi> wondering why, but i dont really wanna read their code :P
<SiDi> anyways looks like the package wont work in Xubuntu
<SiDi> dashua, are you sure you updated the pics in your push ?
<_MMA_> SiDi: Well if Xubuntu is using OSD-Notify I think it would be great to help remedy the situation.
<SiDi> They seem to be the same
<SiDi> _MMA_, i use notify-osd :D
<SiDi> and im the guy whos trying to get it integrated perfectly in xubuntu :)
<_MMA_> Well *you* might. Does Xubuntu by default?
<dashua> SiDi: The scrollbar_prelight?
<SiDi> dashua, yeh
<dashua> I think.  Let me check
<SiDi> _MMA_, normally yes, see
<SiDi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/NotifyOsd
<_MMA_> SiDi: Gotcha.
<dashua> SiDi: Try again?
<dashua> Maybe not.  Gimme a sec =/
<SiDi> dashua, md5sum is different but the pic is the same ^^
<dashua> Try one more time
<dashua> More grey now, see if that'll work
<SiDi> completely grey, even :D
<dashua> Better than greenish-brown?
<SiDi> is there anything in the theme that is grey/green when hovered ?
<dashua> No
<dashua> I don't know what other colors will look good
<dashua> Light brown maybe?
<SiDi> light brown cream
<SiDi> uploading one
<SiDi> but as im a gimp noob the hue is still too brown
<SiDi> http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8643/screenshotouy.png
<dashua> Kk
<dashua> I like :)
<_MMA_> I gotta say, Breathe looks *way* nice in Thunar. Especially the sidebar.
<dashua> _MMA_: It's the the theme mate ;0
<dashua> ;)
<_MMA_> :P
<SiDi> http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1023/thunar.png !
<knome> SiDi, unfortunately can't agree :P
<SiDi> knome, agee on what ? :P
<SiDi> +r
<knome> that breathe looks nnice on thunar ;P
<knome> ehm
<_MMA_> bah. Who asked you. :P
<knome> that wasn't you saying that, lol
<knome> _MMA_, nobody, i thought this was a free chat channel :P
<_MMA_> Come on man. I said ":P"
<knome> it looks nice but not nicer than gnome-brave
<knome> c'mon man, i've drank too much rum :P
<SiDi> _MMA_ didnt say it looked *nicer*
 * knome tries to clear his head and thoughts
<knome> SiDi, i know (now) :P
<SiDi> :D
<_MMA_> knome: I was gonna ask for some of what you're smokin'. :)
<dashua> Blue is played out like suede on a hot summer's day.
<knome> but it does not look *amazinh* :)
<SiDi> he smokes mouse hair
<_MMA_> hahahahhahahah
<dashua> Brown is the new blue, you didn't hear ;)
<knome> h=g
<knome> dashua, might be
<SiDi> dashua, didnt notice the sky was so polluted yet
<SiDi> :D
<dashua> Ha, it's getting there
<knome> dashua, it would be interesting to see ubuntu moving to blue and xubuntu moving to brown
<dashua> I will distro hop then.
<knome> just for laughs... or sth.
 * SiDi notices he still didnt have any feedback for the notification-battery icons :'(
<knome> SiDi, the middle one looks good, the icons are *great*
<knome> really.
<SiDi> ty :p
<_MMA_> SiDi: I said this morning I liked the design. I'm looking over your original email now.
<SiDi> actually im more trying to know wether or not its acceptable to have new icons for that. And wether you guys find it better to have 6 icns instead of the 0-25 25-50 50-75 75-100 ones
<SiDi> and also, is it reasonable to put so many colours in notification- icons
<_MMA_> SiDi: "Reasonable" Opinion I guess. I'd talk to the Canonical guys actually.
<_MMA_> I've been meaning to chat with then about issues like this.
<SiDi> i already bugged Kenneth about this
<SiDi> waiting to see what they think of the icons
<SiDi> I think its a lack for the power-managers
<_MMA_> SiDi: Yeah. We should file bugs.
<SiDi> atm the gnome one uses the info icon, and the xfce one a blurry generic icon
<SiDi> hm i'll wait for Kenneth's answer on the ML before filing another bug :P
<SiDi> anyways i dont know if gnome-power-manager and xfce4-power-manager will survive karmic so..
<_MMA_> Actually, andreasn should know a good bit about these. I think I got it twisted and thought you were talking ODS stuff. Aren't these GNOME specific?
<SiDi> the notification- icons ?
<SiDi> They're Human specific more or less
<SiDi> even if the Human ones are meant to be shipped with notify-osd, as far as i know
<_MMA_> SiDi: Well, the power ones anyway
<SiDi> xfce4 uses some power icons too
<SiDi> the same ones for the battery state tray icon
<SiDi> and they use those for the notifications, which do look ugly ^^
<_MMA_> I remember andreasn mentioning GNOME had a special SVG with all the states in it to render out the various icons.
<_MMA_> Kinda like the Breathe ones but more complex.
<SiDi> They use the generic "info" icon, at the moment
<SiDi> Well, on my OS they do at least
<_MMA_> Maybe in their "trunk" IDK.
<SiDi> you're on Ubuntu Jaunty GNOME, right ?
<_MMA_> yep
<SiDi> Mind making a screenshot of the notification triggered by XF86Power pls ?
<_MMA_> Only have Karmic in VM.
<_MMA_> SiDi: Well I'm runnin' Studio and we didn't take on OSD for Jaunty.
<SiDi> oh
<_MMA_> Doesn't really fit our use-case.
<SiDi> dashua, ? :D
<knome> _MMA_, neither did xubuntu
<knome> :]
<SiDi> _MMA_, i personally think the design of notify-osd is much better than the notification-daemon one
<SiDi> knome, thats cause noone bothered installing it Q_Q
 * _MMA_ senses a Xubuntu thorn here. :P
<knome> SiDi, nobody bothered as we didn't want it
<SiDi> knome, when i asked cody the official reason he said "not enough time for testing"
<SiDi> and there were *no objections* during the UDS "session" about it :p
<_MMA_> Studio isn't really a desktop system and nothing by default really uses any notifications. So we skipped it.
<SiDi> which was held in the coffee room :P
<knome> SiDi, i would not liked to see them (yet) in jaunty anyway
<SiDi> knome, why's that ?
<knome> SiDi, still too untested for ubuntu also
<dashua> SiDi: Wanna test a different color all together.  Gonna push it.
<SiDi> well, missions of people use it, issues and knome and being worked on
<SiDi> dashua, okeys
<_MMA_> knome: Well... Sometimes you just gotta throw stuff in.
<_MMA_> Otherwise, you'll never get testing.
<SiDi> dashua, do you have a XF86Power key on your keyboard ? Mind giving me a screenshot please ? :D
<knome> SiDi, sure.
<SiDi> millions *
<SiDi> not missions
 * SiDi not drunk but tired
<knome> _MMA_, i know. this just wasn't the time. we already did a completely new artwork set. :)
<dashua> Might be too maroonish, let me know?
<knome> me not tired but drunk
<_MMA_> :P
<knome> really the wrong time to irc
<SiDi> dashua, wont let me pull. Sec
<SiDi> dashua, did you do push or is the server being slow ? :D
<dashua> Try now
<dashua> Just pushed
<dashua> Rev. 35
<dashua> I have a really dark glossy monitor
<dashua> So, it may look different to you.
<dashua> Blends with bg_selected a bit better
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/15354/screenshot_004_1R9w7q.png
<knome> dashua, looks quite nice
<knome> what is the scrollbar style?
<dashua> Thx :)
<dashua> Pixmap
<knome> right
<dashua> One thing I don't think any of the engine do perfect
<dashua> engines*
<knome> okay..
<dashua> Pixmap scrolls faster too for some reason
<dashua> I don't know why
<knome> hmm
<knome> doesn't sound logical, but sounds kinda good
<dashua> Much smoother especially on a web browser
<knome> good to know
<SiDi> It looks red now
<SiDi> a bit bordeaux
<dashua> It's almost negligible
<_MMA_> :D
<dashua> Too red
<SiDi> its not negligible on bright screens :P
<SiDi> I personally love the color :p
<dashua> Oh, I'm talking about the scrolling
<knome> red?
<SiDi> but i suppose the goal is to have it the same color than the rest of the theme, isnt it ? /D
<SiDi> oh
<SiDi> _MMA_, stop :Ding :P
<dashua> SiDi: Yeah, that's the idea
<dashua> Prelight looks much better going here though
<_MMA_> SiDi: I'm a happy guy. :)
<_MMA_> (kinda)
<SiDi> _MMA_, better than the contrary, isnt it ? :]
<_MMA_> Sure. I could drop a couple of "F-Bombs" if it would make ya feel better.
<knome> jaegerbombs!
<_MMA_> hehe
 * _MMA_ goes to get food. (tries to remember to hit up Cody about Xubuntu and ODS)
<SiDi> Cody disappeared :P
<knome> bon appetit _MMA_
<knome> always
<SiDi> Bon appÃ©tit xD
 * SiDi hides.
<knome> ehm
<SiDi> do you even have an 'Ã©' key on your keyboard ? :P
<knome> if i combine two keys, yes
<SiDi> that solaris manzur guy makes very interesting contributions to the mailing list
<knome> solaris manzur?
<SiDi> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-May/author.html#10477
<dashua> SiDi, knome:Better worse ?  http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/15355/screenshot_005_7Ok5ox.png
<SiDi> worse :p
<SiDi> not a fan of pink :x
<SiDi> not with brown, at least :p
<dashua> Ok
<knome> lol
<SiDi> hey, knome got voice in #xfce-dev :O
<knome> sure
<knome> :P
<knome> i bugged ofourdan :PP
<SiDi> im the only people in both #xubuntu-devel and #xfce-dev who's unvoiced XD
<_MMA_> bah. That crap doesn't matter.
<knome> yeah, not really
<SiDi> _MMA_, which ? :P
<_MMA_> Being "voiced"
<knome> except in #xfce-dev, which is +m
<_MMA_>  /Most/ of the time it'd dumb e-status crap.
<knome> yes.
<knome> and something to extend your... thing.
<SiDi> _MMA_, it doesnt rly matter indeed :P I cant speak but i have no reason to, so thats ok :D
<knome> SiDi, well at least in #xubuntu-devel we sitll let you speak even with no voices
<SiDi> yeh
<SiDi> thats a bad idea, tho :D
<knome> lol
<knome> not really
<knome> you have some insightgful thoughts
<knome> and i almost treat you as part of the team already
<knome> almost because you have no real position on the team :P
<knome> you've been a real help in the last weeks.
<_MMA_> knome: And unless the channel is +m, the voice thing is unnecessary. Just a "I'm cool" thing.
<SiDi> knome, thanks :]
<_MMA_> In my experience it's a hindrance more than a plus.
<knome> sure. even ops are unnecessary until there is somebody you have to kick/ban
<_MMA_> exactly
<SiDi> depends, for the ops thing :p people speak more freely when they dont _know_ there's an op
<_MMA_> But I suspect #xfce-dev had some issues to +m the channel. I've been there before and it wasn't always like that.
<knome> in freenode you usually don't know, as you can op yourself with chanserv only when needed once you have the op status
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-31
<macvr> SiDi: hi... could u hav a look at the breathe submissions wiki... i'v uploaded another set, changed the nm-50 color too :) ...  any comments?
<SiDi> alright, give me a sec
<SiDi> im jubilating for my first gstreamer hello world app compiling and working !
<macvr> whats the hello world app? any links?
<SiDi> Heh, its just watching for volume change signals
<macvr> ok...
<SiDi> I like that little glow around the signal stripes
<SiDi> how does it render in 24x24 though ?
<macvr> the glow? faintly...
<macvr> if the glow is a little larger then it looks horrible in 24x24!
<SiDi> please render the icons and add them to submissions :P
<SiDi> <- lazy
<macvr> should u use gimp to convert them to 24x24 or how do i scale in inkscape?
<macvr> ^I
<SiDi> you should use inkscape
<SiDi> ctrl+shift+e to render to bitmap
<SiDi> well, i suppose its the way to do
<SiDi> youu might want to ask the actual Breathe devs :]
<macvr> oh i just use the 128x128 to render the 24x4 png?
<SiDi> dont resize png's :p
<SiDi> use the svg to make lower resolution png's
<SiDi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ebreathe-dev/breathe-icon-set/trunk/download/head:/breathe_icon_templat-20080905042226-bvdzo9fb8th94dyh-3/Breathe_Icon_Template.svg?file_id=template-20080905042226-bvdzo9fb8th94dyh-2
<macvr> ok... i was about to resize in gimp...! just now saw the option to resize as png..,!
<macvr> ah not the template... ! i get headaches trying to figure it out :P
<SiDi> :p
<SiDi> you _must_ use it for submissions :D
<macvr> it is just "recomended" :P
<macvr> SiDi: uploaded the 24x24 .. :)
<SiDi> I barely see the antenna now ^^
<SiDi> but the stripes look quite good
<macvr> yeah ... the antannae is just to maintain the aspect of the wireless icon :P...
<SiDi> i'll test them live later and see what it gives with my panel
<macvr> i tested these colors with light/dark/transparent panels... works fine
<macvr> SiDi: u use xubuntu right? is there an icon set brave /bravo? i think it has similar wireless icons but all green... do u have the icon set?
<SiDi> hm
<SiDi> i use xubuntu yeh
<SiDi> but i use Human/breathe as an icon theme :p
<SiDi> the gnome-brave ones are similar yeh
<macvr> its just i saw the icon set in xubuntu and would like to compare if i could make any improvements... could u upload the set to the web?
<SiDi> err, download it from gnome-look ;)
<SiDi> or install xubuntu-artwork \o/
<macvr> is it there?
<SiDi> yeh
<macvr> i tried searching... let me look again!
<macvr> _MMA_: hi... have u checked the ones i'v uploaded today, are they better ?
<_MMA_> macvr: I think they are. I want kwwii (since he's done like icon) or Sebastien to chime in on the mailing list.
<macvr> _MMA_:ok.. oh... i forgot the mailing list... i'll send a mail too..
<_MMA_> np
<_MMA_> macvr: Only a few people are subscribed to the page edits.
<macvr> _MMA_: yeah... i keep forgetting the mailing list...!
<SiDi> I actually stopped following the page edits cause of massive spam it generates, personally :]
<_MMA_> hahaha. Like the list isn't. :P
<SiDi> _MMA_, btw i understand your point about moderated lists :D there have been a few epic "contributions" lately. Like that solaris manzur guy
<_MMA_> SiDi: I'm on so many lists can you gimmie a link?
 * _MMA_ also got off some lately though.
<SiDi> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-May/author.html bottom of page
<_MMA_> Oh I forgot all about him.
<_MMA_> There will always be people who have an opposing view.
<SiDi> well, it would be good if he was actually capable of explaining his point of view :]
<SiDi> instead of trolling so hard
<_MMA_> What will kill alot of people is that we're not doing something Tango-esque. And the fact that it's a design decision.
<_MMA_> Well I dont think English is his native language. So folks like that often use words that at their face seem very harsh for a native speaker.
<SiDi> true
<pinheiro> hey
<pinheiro> any one here from the brethe icon set?
<SiDi> not at the moment, afaik
<SiDi> got a message for them ? :P
<pinheiro> no just wondering what it was
<pinheiro> :)
<pinheiro> seams prety based on oxygen and as oxygen maintainer i was wondering :)
<SiDi> its based on oxygen indeed :)
<SiDi> "Because Human needs Oxygen" is the subtitle of Breathe
<pinheiro> :)
<pinheiro> cheking it out
<pinheiro> its prety difrent
<pinheiro> couple of icons are oxygen
<SiDi> its orange, maybe ? :P
<pinheiro> but most no
<pinheiro> yeah very orange
<SiDi> they designed all the icons on their own, some are heavily based on oxygen, and some have been created from scratch
<pinheiro> and my gess alot of difrent people working on them
<pinheiro> couple of difrent styles
<pinheiro> but best of luck on the project
<pinheiro> seams a prety cool idea
<SiDi> Not that many people actually
<SiDi> most of the icons are from about 3/4 people
<SiDi> but they did an awesome work :P Its rare to see actively developed icon themes
<pinheiro> yeah
<pinheiro> its a monster work
<pinheiro> a complete icon set is in the range of the 2500 icons
<pinheiro> fredesktop is just about 400 i think
<pinheiro> still quite a big work
<SiDi> well, there are many symlinks though
<SiDi> if major DEs would agree on cleaning their icons' naming it would help a lot
<pinheiro> ooo that is doen
<pinheiro> done
<pinheiro> check out full oxygen
<pinheiro> its all fredesktop naming compatible
<pinheiro> at least all ok kde is or iss soon becoming completly freedesktop naming compatible
<SiDi> i wouldnt say the same of xfce^^ there are a few weird names here n there
<pinheiro> in all icons not just the specific fredesktop ones
<pinheiro> SiDi: some one needs to talk to  xfce^^ people then
<pinheiro> :)
<pinheiro> i have a prety hard time convincing the kde developers
<SiDi> oh well, i dont think they have the time to go through it all now :P ill file bug reports one day or another, and provide patches wherever i can
<SiDi> KDE has like 10x more developers than xfce, if not more
<pinheiro> actualy we removed oxygen from kdebase to kdesuport so we can control that so developers just use the icons from oxygen
<SiDi> whats the difference ?
<pinheiro> they dont include icons any more
<SiDi> im totally ignorant about kde stuff :D
<pinheiro> oxygen is a dependency
<pinheiro> a kde app as no icons
<pinheiro> its dependent on oxygen
<pinheiro> that avoids the usual icon duplication
<pinheiro> so we are creting a rather large colection of good icons names
<SiDi> wow, im not understanding at all :D
<pinheiro> :)
<pinheiro> say app xyz they nedd 23 icons
<pinheiro> for all theyr tasks
<pinheiro> oxygen makes those icons and names them
<SiDi> and it only installs these ?
<pinheiro> no
<pinheiro> they require oxygen as a dependency
<SiDi> hm, so you let KDE devs chose the icons they need and you _make_ the icons ?
<pinheiro> yeap
<pinheiro> http://tinyurl.com/33qfzs
<pinheiro> hey swalko
<SiDi> Wow ! :P
<pinheiro> yes oxygen makes the icons and names them in a fredesktop way
<pinheiro> that avoids duplication
<pinheiro> making the same icon for 3 difrent apps and every time a bit difrently
<swalko> pinheiro: hi
<pinheiro> swalko: cheking out what breath is
<pinheiro> :)
<swalko> pinheiro: breathe?
<pinheiro> https://launchpad.net/breathe-icon-set
<swalko> pinheiro: for me breathe isnt as good as it want to be or as it may be
<pinheiro> well oxygen took alot of time to define its style
<pinheiro> was the worts part of the process
<pinheiro> about 2 years
<pinheiro> so i would give them time
<swalko> pinheiro: you and oxygen in overall have experience
<swalko> pinheiro: in creating icons and things around
<pinheiro> yes
<pinheiro> experience is aquiered by doing stuf
<swalko> pinheiro: like creatings small icon sizes, exporting and etc
<pinheiro> yeah
<swalko> pinheiro: i created only one or two icons for oxygen, but it was big experience for me to work with you and oxygen too
<pinheiro> was i meen?
<pinheiro> i usualy am
<pinheiro> :P
<pinheiro> bit of a ovely critical person
<pinheiro> so if i was plese sory
<pinheiro> onestly
<swalko> pinheiro: i am critical too, your critics was my motor :)
<pinheiro> :)
<pinheiro> any way best of luck for breath
<pinheiro> there is not enough orange in the world
<pinheiro> :D
<swalko> pinheiro: :)
<pinheiro> we alrady took blue :P
<pinheiro> hehehehe just been declied as a member of the breathe team :)
<pinheiro> hehehehhe
<dashua> SiDi: Rev. 37 when you get a change.  Should be a bit more consistent.
<dashua> chance*
<SiDi> pulled :D
<dashua> If it looks good to you and have time for xwfm, I'll make a page and a release
<dashua> .1
<SiDi> great :)
<dashua> :)
<SiDi> ill do the xfwm in a few days then
<dashua> Awesome
<dashua> I need to figure out releases on launchpad
<dashua> Should be fairly simple
<SiDi> but i'll make an alternate xfwm4 folder with the previous metacity too, cause i <3'd it :D
<dashua> Ok np
<SiDi> yeh. you just make the deb, and go post a big "RELEASED" on planet
<dashua> Ha, I have no planet axx
<SiDi> me neither ^^
<dashua> Maybe I'll try for membership some day, but I do not feel worthy enough just yet =/
<dashua> Does the old metacity still look good with the newest revision?
<dashua> I guess it would.
<dashua> All dark.
<dashua> - the gradient
<SiDi> Yes it does :)
<SiDi> the toolbar color isnt the same
<dashua> Ironic, Breathe is missing from Ubuntu-Art.org
<SiDi> but with the same color i think it'd be sexy-ish
<SiDi> oh :P indeed
<dashua> I'll see if I can match the colors (old metacity)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-31
<myrk> hi
<kwwii> DanRabbit_: make it home ok?
<knome> kwwii, ^
<DanRabbit_> kwwii: yep :) I'm just hanging out
<DanRabbit_> nice to be home, get some American food :p
<kwwii> DanRabbit_: cool, good to hear
<DanRabbit_> kwwii: you? :D
<kwwii> DanRabbit_: actually, it took about and hour and half to find a taxi
<DanRabbit_> ah bummer :/
<kwwii> but I made it
<DanRabbit_> good :)
<kwwii> did you see pete's email? we need to add skype to the wall on the first installer pic
<kwwii> don't worry about changing the size, they should change the installer instead
<kwwii> just add skype
<DanRabbit_> okay, no problem. I'll add Skype and send it to Otto for his lighting thing ;)
<kwwii> cool, sounds good
<kwwii> remove one of the funkier im protocols
<DanRabbit_> yea I will :p
<kwwii> btw, I posted another photo of you on my flickr
<DanRabbit_> woot
<DanRabbit_> link?
<kwwii> flickr.com/photos/kwwii
<DanRabbit_> sweet
<DanRabbit_> kwwii: ha, I didn't even know you took this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kwwii/4300943092/
<kwwii> DanRabbit_: that is usually how the best pics happen :)
<DanRabbit_> heh
<kwwii> lol, I wonder how long it will take them to figure out that on design.canonical.com the oldest posts are all my kde stuff
<kwwii> funky
<knome> kwwii, did you know that <ul>'s look bad
<DanRabbit_> kwwii: lol
<kwwii> knome: erm?
<knome> kwwii, http://design.canonical.com/2010/05/so-long-already-nah/
<knome> kwwii, just after "step 2"
<kwwii> not sure I get you
<knome> the bullets start abt 15 pixels more left than regular text
<kwwii> hrm, which browser are you using?
<kwwii> I use chromium and it seems fine
<kwwii> I have heard of this bug before though
<knome> ff
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/Screenshot-1.png
<kwwii> that shows how it works in chromium
<knome> http://emonk.fi/temp/designblog-ff.png
<kwwii> yeah, I have seen that before
<kwwii> it is a known bug and will be fixed
<kwwii> there was quite a stir in the design team about that
<kwwii> the link to the artwork team is wrong as well
<kwwii> the problems are due to miscommunication between the people making actual pages
<kwwii> lice and learn
<knome> mmm-hmm
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> lice are nasty, living is good
<kwwii> anyway
<kwwii> time for sleep
<zniavre> http://www.flickr.com/photos/kwwii/4599954282/    i saw next year same instrument > http://www.flickr.com/photos/kwwii/4599954282/
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-01
<summers> i would like to announce a new ubuntu channel, #ubuntu-faggots, all are welcome to join
<vish> kwwii: can you kick/ban ^
<kwwii> there, no need
<vish> kwwii: yup , just got kicked kicked from freenode ,he was spamming a lot of ubuntu channels ;)
<kwwii> stupid, really
<thorwil> stupid and not one bit creative
<vish> heh , seems he is part of a group that is targeting the -women team  :/
<Cimi> iainfarrell: how is it going? :)
<kwwii> Cimi: I think iainfarrell is really busy today, not sure if he is checking irc
<kwwii> Cimi: hi, btw
<kwwii> :-)
<knome> kwwii, is there a day he ISN'T busy?
<iainfarrell> kwwii:  and Cimi I am here but yes very busy
<iainfarrell> kwwii: flattery will get you everywhere
<iainfarrell> Cimi: is it urgent or could it come to me via e-mail?
<Cimi> iainfarrell: nothing urgent, just want to say hello :)
<knome> me too! hi iainfarrell :)
<iainfarrell> phew! hi to both Cimi and knome :)
<kwwii> hehe
<iainfarrell> apologies for not being more chatty of late
<iainfarrell> the life of a project manager is fraught :)
<knome> iainfarrell, no problem. you can always compensate for this later on, by offering us free beer, for example
<Cimi> ahah
<thorwil> everyone is very busy! where will that get me?
<knome> grave, eventually
<thorwil> knome: heh, thanks for cheering me up! though that "eventually" seems to indicate i could get that wrong!
<knome> :D
<knome> i'm not sure about the grave part, though, since people tend to get cremated as well
<knome> but i'm sure you'll die one day.
 * thorwil goes to have a woman treat parts of his body with scissors
<knome> (just make sure you die because of busyness, since otherwise i had made an another false statement) ;)
<iainfarrell> knome: next time you're in London, it's a deal
<kwwii> thorwil: you are scaring me
<knome> iainfarrell, heh, okay :) so when does canonical invite us the next time? ;)
<thorwil> kwwii: haircut ;)
<iainfarrell> heh knome that's an excellent question
<knome> no seriously, i'll get in touch if/when i most possibly get there next time
<kwwii> thorwil: only if you are lucky
<kwwii> it could all go horribly wrong
<knome> kwwii, at least then he would die, and reach at least one goal
<knome> kwwii, (didn't you see he was fearful about the fact he might go wrong in dying too, eh?)
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> sooo...if anyone wants to test the new theme engine with a new version of Ambiance, check out ppa:ken-vandine/dx-theme
 * knome makes a not of that
<knome> *note
<kwwii> I'll send an email around later with instructions, a list of changes, etc
<kwwii> basically, a list of what Cimi and myself achieved last week :p
<knome> heh
<zniavre_> ambiance is quite nice like that too (still do not like so much the big expander +/-
<kwwii> zniavre_: the expander is currently too dark, need to lighten it up quite a bit
<dashua> kwwii, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/74748/screenshot_P0G0jT.png
<dashua> Haven't messed with the CSD stuff yet.  Still on Lucid.
<vish> holly *** , kenvandine's ppa has a lot of stuff!
<dashua> Heya vish
<vish> hey
<dashua> How's things mate?
<vish> hehe , i was about to say , "busy" and was fearful of thorwil ;p
<dashua> Ha
<zniavre_> dashua, good evening , how did you get the network-manager into indicator-applet please?
<dashua> Hey zniavre_, it's still in the notification area
<zniavre_> ho?  ok ...
<dashua> Yeah, I haven't test ConnMann yet.
<zniavre_> connmann ?
<zniavre_> there is a soft to use nm-applet into indicator thing?
<dashua> The new connection manager to get it into the indicator applet
<dashua> https://launchpad.net/indicator-network
<dashua> vish, Better?
<zniavre_> thank you dashua
<vish> dashua: yup , \o/
<dashua> zniavre_, https://launchpad.net/~indicator-network-developers/+archive/ppa
<dashua> There's the PPA if you want to test it
<dashua> vish, Nice
<vish> dashua: hmm , eclipse breaks the patchbar on regular nautilus :(
<dashua> ah damn
<dashua> I'll try to fix it.  Regular nautilus is ghastly to me now after using n-e
<dashua> The breadcrumbs are probably fsk'ing it up
<vish> dashua: afaik ,  it can be fixed the buttons are separate :/
<vish> cant*
<dashua> Guess you will need two versions, which sucks.
<dashua> =/
<zniavre> dashua,  thank for ppa
<zniavre> it looks ok but half working
<vish> Cimi: kwwii: the focus for the button and combobox are different > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-The%20Widget%20Factory-1.png
<vish> from ken's ppa^
<vish> oh the pleasures of using mainline kernels! , when i try to take screenshots , X crashes at some point after that!
<vish> wow! the gtkrc and metacity are both merged :)
<kwwii> dashua: actually, the purple is only for the server
<dashua> Ah, nice looking though.
<dashua> New colors are nice.
<dashua> The circle expanders need some tweaking.
<dashua> Just tried CSD on my other laptop and there are just grey blocks where the buttons go.
<dashua> I think I'm going to scew this laptop up too.
 * dashua upgrades
<kwwii> dashua: I think that is a bug
<kwwii> ie. it happens to everyone
<kwwii> the expanders need to be much lighter
<dashua> Yeah, I enabled all 3 of the CSD options.  Everything else works good.
<dashua> The buttons works, just no the theme ones.
<kwwii> right
<dashua> The bg and selected bg are really nice.
<kwwii> I made quite a few small changes which really effect lots of bits
<kwwii> look at the radio buttons, that is one change in the engine
<dashua> Oh didn't notice that
<dashua> Solid focus is awesome
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/74805/selection_008_hwkC99.png
<kwwii> Cimi did some great work...I was amazed how fast it was
<dashua> Yeah, good stuff
<kwwii> dashua: note that I put the source of the buttons in the package as well
<dashua> I hope this upgrade is not catastrophic.  Seems ok on my other machine.
<kwwii> the engine upgrade will not break anything
<kwwii> but eventually I think there will be a fork in the engine
<dashua> kwwii, Oh , I only saw some corrupted images.
<dashua> Maybe it didn't pull right
<kwwii> I haven't heard of any problems
<dashua> Oh no, I mean a Maverick upgrade
<kwwii> ahhh
<Cimi> cimi can be even faster xD
<dashua> I usually wait until alpha 2 or 3 but I'm bored.
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> Cimi: there is a ppa with the todays snapshot and the new themes available
<kwwii> it will go into maverick after a bit of testing
<dashua> Well, that purple can be changed back to the black.  Was just testing some things
<dashua> Cimi, Hey mate
<kwwii> dashua: you should make the dark-dark variant a seperate theme
<dashua> I did
<kwwii> dashua: we also wanted to make a very light theme as well
<kwwii> cool
<dashua> i renamed it
<kwwii> excellent
<dashua> Ambiance-Dark was confusing and for testing
<kwwii> I started a version a long time ago called dark-dark
<kwwii> lol
<Cimi> kwwii: ivanka told me she would have contacted me on tuesday
<kwwii> at first the themes were simply dark and light
<kwwii> until we named them
<dashua> I called it Eclipse.
<Cimi> but I did not received any mail yet
<kwwii> Cimi: ok, no worries on that front...she was *really* busy today
<kwwii> Cimi: I will contact her tomorrow and get the current status
<kwwii> Cimi: I'll call her while she is on the train :-)
<dashua> kwwii, Lighter than Radiance?
<Cimi> kwwii: just because I'd like to know the plans
<kwwii> dashua: yeah, a nearly white theme
<dashua> Oh nice
<kwwii> dashua: I am going to make Radiance more grey, no yellow/brown in it
<dashua> Radiance will evolve and a new lighter theme?
<dashua> Cool
<kwwii> the idea is to have a really dark theme, ambiance and radiance, and a really light theme
<dashua> ah nice
<kwwii> the nice thing about working on the dark and light themes is that you'd have a lot more freedom to work on it
<vish> kwwii: the tabs look nice in -csd
<kwwii> vish: the tabs in that should be the same as in the normal ambiance theme
<kwwii> vish: hi, btw
<vish> hmm , weird , then i have had an old version of the ambiance , the tabs were flat
<vish> kwwii: now they are nice and curved
<kwwii> vish: only the inactive ones have a slight gradient
<vish> kwwii: yeah , that was what i was mentioning  :)
<vish> heh, i was looking at the radio checkmarks and wondering if it was new ;)
<kwwii> indeed that is all new
<kwwii> as well as the button highlight states
<kwwii> all the new colours
<dashua> Cimi is a hacking madman.
<kwwii> the gripper is now visible
<vish> kwwii: did you check the button highlight? screenshot i posted above? the combobox and button active are a bit different
<kwwii> vish: yeah, I saw that and I agree that they look different
<kwwii> not sure why
<kwwii> Cimi: ^ ?
<vish> kwwii: the combobox active looks better :)
<dashua> Cimi, kwwii, The murrine fork is for Ubuntu specific changes, right?
<kwwii> dashua: no, it is for anyone
<dashua> Cool
<kwwii> dashua: we simply suggested some ideas...Cimi did not implement some of our crack :-)
<vish> Cimi: looks like the combobox active is drawn below/behind the button and for the buttons it is drawn within the button
<dashua> Hehe
<kwwii> he always has to keep his existing userbase in mind
<vish> kwwii: hmm , 4 themes by default ? ooh
<kwwii> vish: it might very well be a problem with the way gtk draws the widget
<vish> yeah
<vish> lets switch to KDE ;p
<kwwii> I still use kde as well :-)
<vish> double agent!
<kwwii> 7 years working on kde versus 5 on gnome
<vish> kwwii: which do you like for theming?
<vish> or prefer..
<kwwii> gnome is easier for a non-techie to theme but kde is much more powerful and precise
<vish> yeah .. :s
<kwwii> not kde but qt itself
<kwwii> although plasma is amazing
<kwwii> super simple to theme
<kwwii> better than gnome
<kwwii> I must admit I have not tried to theme gnome3's shell
<vish> gets dizzy if you use it for a while ;)
<vish> and then theming it will be even tougher
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> try to theme unity
<kwwii> :P
<zniavre> can you theme this new expander ?
<kwwii> zniavre: yes, as you always could
<Cimi> here I am
<zniavre> it did not change the desktop
<kwwii> zniavre: not sure I understand
<zniavre> http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1473/capturexbr.png  > twf ok , the rest no
<kwwii> zniavre: what is the "no" in that? I do not understand
 * dashua reboots 
<kwwii> zniavre: after updating the theme engine you need to restart every app to apply the changes
<kwwii> so log out and back in
<zniavre> ok
<zniavre> same ... : o( i did something wrong for sure but when and where
<dashua> Relatively painless, for now ;)
<kwwii> zniavre: what is the problem?
<Cimi> kwwii: can I share the mockup (the button s) with cairo devs? :)
<kwwii> zniavre: I still do not understand what the problem is
<Cimi> just to know if they have ideas in how to implement the blur
<kwwii> Cimi: certainly, everything is open now
<kwwii> no more secrets from canonicals side
<vish> nooooooo!
<kwwii> we just needed to keep the original work a secret until we could develop the first version
<vish> kwwii:  where/how will we get controversies  :(
<vish> ;p
<kwwii> lol
 * vish waiting for a murrine fork \o/
<dashua> kwwii, The buttons you mention should be in the src directory?
<kwwii> vish: the best way to make that happen would be to suggest lots of ideas for improvement
<kwwii> I already have my list :-)
<kwwii> dashua: yes, indeed
<dashua> Hrm
<dashua> I have two images and they seem corrupt
<kwwii> ouch
<kwwii> it should be two svgs
<vish> ooh , open to new ideas , even better :)
<kwwii> one with the lucid state and one with maverick ideas
<dashua> Ah disregard
<dashua> They open fine in Inkscape
<zniavre> kwwii, sorry for my bad english
<kwwii> zniavre: no worries, I just want to understand
<vish> dashua: which buttons?
<kwwii> dashua: indeed, they are svg's
<Cimi> kwwii: and give cimi a lot of money would be good too :P
<vish> i see only png , from the ppa
<kwwii> Cimi: hehe, indeed!
<zniavre> the problem is i made some change in gtkrc for expander it works with twf but not in nautilus(elementary) rhythmbox and xchat im looking for what i did wrong
<kwwii> vish: in the src dir in the source of the package?
<vish> hmm , i dont think i have the src
<kwwii> vish: then you do not have the latest stuff
<kwwii> it is definitely in the source
<kwwii> although I have already updated things they are the versions of what is now included with the latest update
<kwwii> more changes coming soon
<kwwii> well, am off work until monday
<vish> kwwii: ken'ppa or a different one?
<kwwii> vish: kenvandine'S ppa
<kwwii> I will include a newer snapshot in my ppa sometime soon
<kwwii> but maybe not until monday
<kwwii> zniavre: I honestly do not know why that would be a problem
<kwwii> zniavre: just remember to restart all apps after updating the engine
<kwwii> and re-select the theme in the appearance dialog
<kwwii> sometimes it helps to log out and back in
<kwwii> or "killall nautilus && nautilus"
<kwwii> then again, I think nautilus will respawn
<kwwii> but anyway
<zniavre> thank you
<zniavre> i did that already
<kwwii> hrm, what is the exact problem?
<kwwii> I cannot see what you mean
<kwwii> or at least, I have not noticed it in the pic you suggested
<zniavre> sorry i do not want to disturb all of you more with my silly stuff
<kwwii> zniavre: it is not silly stuff
<kwwii> zniavre: don't worry, if I understand I will help
<kwwii> if I can, that is
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> nobody here cares about language
<zniavre> except me ...  :o(
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> I have spent 3 weeks in brussels trying to speak french
<kwwii> trust me, I understand
<kwwii> my accent is wonderful but I simply don't know enough words or vocabulary!
<zniavre> so (maybe another question can help) why the gtkrc modifications can works with the widget factory (twf) and not with the desktop ?
<kwwii> what is the difference?
<kwwii> twf is not exactly perfect either
<kwwii> the widget laboratory is somewhat better
<kwwii> from my experience
<knome> kwwii, where to get that?
<kwwii> you really need to test things in their real state
<kwwii> knome: there is a ppa
<knome> there?
<kwwii> launchpad is your friend
<knome> no ppa's here
<kwwii> lol
 * knome even checked his pants
<zniavre> nautilus -q
<zniavre> :o\
<kwwii> second google link: https://launchpad.net/twl
<kwwii> -q?
<zniavre> restart
<kwwii> never heard of that
<kwwii> ahhh
<kwwii> zniavre: what are the problems you see?
<kwwii> zniavre: I do not understand the problem
<zniavre> i can 't see my change in my theme (only twf show the nex colors)
<zniavre> new*
<kwwii> sounds like gnome-settings-deamon died
<kwwii> restart your desktop and it should be fixed
<kwwii> or restart gnome-settings-deamon
<zniavre> ok
<knome> kwwii, cheers :P
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> my next suggestion is to get parasite
<kwwii> a great gtk module
<kwwii> for findind and special casing gtk stuff
<zniavre> yep i tried it but it's ununderstandable for me
<kwwii> it is indeed complex
<kwwii> anyway
<kwwii> time for sleep soon
<zniavre> http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3489/capture1jm.png
<kwwii> zniavre: yes, that is the new style
<kwwii> what is the problem?
<zniavre> the color
<kwwii> ahhh
<kwwii> now I see
<kwwii> hrm, seems like a wierd bug
<zniavre> ha!
<zniavre> :o)
<kwwii> Cimi: ^ see the problem in that screenshot?
<kwwii> Cimi: http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3489/capture1jm.png
<kwwii> Cimi: any idea what that is?
 * zniavre is happy he's a bit understandable
<Cimi> no
<Cimi> it is using
<Cimi> wait
<Cimi> it is fg
<zniavre> http://paste.ubuntu-fr-secours.org/src-95451  im using this strange color_set just to try
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-02
<kwwii> Cimi: hrm?
<kwwii> zniavre: that does not show me the problem
<kwwii> anyway, time for sleep
<kwwii> night all
<coz_> is the ubuntu logo on lucid going to change?? please say yes :)
<coz_> I mean for maverick?
<dashua> vish, You have the source .svgs for the button troughs?
<directhex> is there a copy of the slides from http://video.ubuntu.com/uds/maverick/UDS-M-Making-Beautiful-Fonts-high.ogv anywhere? a video saying "look at this awesome font" which doesn't show the screen is kinda pointless
<thorwil> directhex: so far it doesn't look like the slides are available. we could of course pester iainfarrell, but i asked him twice already ;)
<directhex> don't worry about it.
<knome> i'm sure iainfarrell is also *very* busy ;)
<iainfarrell> Hi directhex yes they are
<iainfarrell> Dalton Maag put them on their website
<iainfarrell> hang on
<iainfarrell> http://www.daltonmaag.com/docs/FontDevelopment.pdf
<directhex> iainfarrell, oh, handy!
<iainfarrell> directhex: indeed
<iainfarrell> glad you're finding it interesting
<iainfarrell> take any questions you have to the blog so we can chat about it :)
<directhex> iainfarrell, i don't have much of an eye for design, so it's always interesting to see how subtle the differences in the design process for things can get
<iainfarrell> directhex: it's a very complex process that's for sure
<iainfarrell> directhex: glad to see people are interested :)
<directhex> iainfarrell, i read somewhere that it's possible to get ahold of vector images of words rendered with the current in-progress font, for use on web pages e.g. loco sites. is that the case?
<iainfarrell> directhex: yes the guidelines and logo assets are on the design team blog in the toolkits section
<iainfarrell> directhex: http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/
<directhex> iainfarrell, yeah, one thing i wasn't clear on with those - there's no mention of aubergine in there, which confuses things somewhat given the "white and orange" example on page 7 has different colourization to the logo used in the boot screen in lucid
<iainfarrell> directhex: there's more to come in terms of colour
<iainfarrell> we have to explain in more detail where we see colours being used
<iainfarrell> but Aubergine is generally to be used sparingly where Ubuntu is concerned
<iainfarrell> so we use it in the boot to take the edge off the black for example
<iainfarrell> but not in many other places
<iainfarrell> Canonical leads much more with Aubergine but doesn't use Orange as much
<iainfarrell> because that's Ubuntu's primary colour
<directhex> ETA? it makes it difficult to design web content relevant to lucid when neither lucid's colourization nor font are formalized clearly
<iainfarrell> The font will come with the next release in the first instance, we're planning a public beta but more on that soon - I don't have dates yet
<iainfarrell> If I were you I'd look at the new websites for guidance
<iainfarrell> and we'll publish guides as soon as we can
<iainfarrell> we have a list
<iainfarrell> we're working through it
<iainfarrell> I'll see if we can find a way of sharing the tasks ahead
<iainfarrell> so you guys know what you're getting and when
<directhex> I'll keep using Xenu for now, then. it's good enough to fool the casual observer.
<iainfarrell> directhex: is that a free font?
<directhex> iainfarrell, it's $30 of font
<iainfarrell> directhex: I'd wait if I were you
<iainfarrell> look at the CSS on the website
<iainfarrell> for the fonts we've chosen that go well with the Ubuntu font
<iainfarrell> and maybe update later
<directhex> iainfarrell, that's not a bad idea as far as content goes, but there are limited options for Ubuntu-looking title fonts. Other than the old font, of course.
<iainfarrell> yeah, I would advise against using the old font
<iainfarrell> but using other fonts isn't necessarily bad
<iainfarrell> the ubuntu font is our word mark and logo
<iainfarrell> so don't feel like you have to slavishly conform
<iainfarrell> if your website is about Ubuntu use the logo
<iainfarrell> but it's also your website
<iainfarrell> your project
<directhex> "look at the css" - you know there are 27 stylesheets on ubuntu.com, right? ;)
<iainfarrell> directhex: ok, that might not have been the most straight forward one :)
<directhex> aha, yay for web developer toolbar
<directhex> hm. "ubuntu beta", vera, dejavu. think that's what i already had in mind
<iainfarrell> directhex: great minds
<coz_> hey guys
<coz_> so who is doing what for maverick?
<coz_> or is most of it left up to the "official" art team?
<directhex> iainfarrell, i like making things look like other things, as far as the technology permits anyway, hence http://imgur.com/AHlSI
<iainfarrell> directhex: right, is that an updated login screen?
<directhex> iainfarrell, no, it's grub
<iainfarrell> wow
<iainfarrell> I didn't recognise it :)
<directhex> i wish that anti-aliased font patch would make it into grub though Â¬_Â¬
<iainfarrell> directhex: all in good time I'm sure
<iainfarrell> that's an interesting one though
<iainfarrell> because it makes grub look like a login
<iainfarrell> which might be confusing to users who think it's a login screen if the machine has been set up for them
<coz_> is this red circle with cutout ubuntu symbol also going to be in marverick??
<iainfarrell> that almost doesn't matter compared to the fact that I use it every day and casually looking at it thought it was the login screen so might confuse the non hardcore user even more
<directhex> or it might do the reverse, by making grub feel like something they're already familiar with, rather than something scary and "DOS-like". i dunno, i don't conduct user studies. i just do things for fun.
<iainfarrell> the Ubuntu logo in the orange circle _is_ the finalised logo now
<iainfarrell> so it will be in Maverick in some form, yes
<coz_> iainfarrell,  oh thats a shame... I think it looks like a bad design decision
<directhex> that and i found it rather easier to shoehorn a grub boot list into GDM's style than trying to do something with the plymouth style.
<iainfarrell> coz_: if you look in the guidelines the circle of friends can be used without it
<iainfarrell> but in the Ubuntu word mark
<iainfarrell> and in most cases
<iainfarrell> it will be in the circle
<coz_> iainfarrell,  understood... but still a poor design.... how much "influence" do the "community" art team have with "official" art team?
<iainfarrell> coz_: what makes you say it's a poor design, can you give me a scenario where it doesn't work?
<coz_> iainfarrell, its a circle... first off... and a white cut out of the logo... looks as if it was done as a last minute design in a hurry
<coz_> iainfarrell,  it doesnt work well because it is first seen as a circle  not the ubuntu logo... depending on your gestault view I suppose
<iainfarrell> Sounds more like you don't like it coz_ more than it's a bad design
<iainfarrell> I don't look at it and see just a circle
<iainfarrell> it's an evolution of the circle of friends
<coz_> iainfarrell,  well  that;s  one explanation.. but no.. it is a bad design... far to simplistic but not minimalistic
<iainfarrell> and I assure you it wasn't quick or last minute
<coz_> iainfarrell, I believe it was not last minute
<iainfarrell> coz_: I think we'll have to agree to disagree :)
<coz_> iainfarrell,  but after 6 years of ubuntu... and all of the available ..more interesting designs.. just online... this one is tooo simplisitc   and yes I suppose there is nothing to do but agree to disagree :)
<iainfarrell> We worked hard to make something that was simple but didn't leave the good things like the idea of the circle of friends behind
<directhex> coz_, some art decisions are good, some are bad. i don't see the CoF refresh as bad
<iainfarrell> and you're welcome to play with it and throw ideas around
<coz_>  directhex   understood
<iainfarrell> which is the great thing about this project of ours
<iainfarrell> plus we couldn't throw out the COF when so many people have tattoos of it :D
<coz_> iainfarrell,  yes but again ...how much influence does the "community art team" have on the "official art team" ?
<directhex> coz_, when all's said & done, it's the old CoF in monochrome.
<coz_> directhex,  yes exactly...
<iainfarrell> coz_: I think if your contributions are in line with the work we're doing on maverick - see design blueprints, or are an interesting idea
<coz_> here let me whip up a "minimalistic" one instead of just simple hold on
<iainfarrell> then you can have a lot of influence
<iainfarrell> we really welcome input
<iainfarrell> but we're a young team, and we have a remit to get certain foundations set before we start to expand it out
<coz_> iainfarrell,  cool :)
<iainfarrell> but we're also a small team
<directhex> the new CoF is easier to gently parody than the old one was, anyway. hence http://i.imgur.com/auhrX.png
<coz_> let me finishe this one  in inkscape hold on
<coz_> ok rushed and very minimalistic     http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/UBUNTU/logo-coz.svg
<coz_> not that I prefer that one... but there are alternatives  to  two colours... or cut outs ... and certainly "white" logos :)
<iainfarrell> there are
<iainfarrell> and we explored them :)
<iainfarrell> this mark has to work online, on the desktop, in print all over
<iainfarrell> and we wanted something that wouldn't suffer when translated
<iainfarrell> so the example you have here
<iainfarrell> might work well on screen
<coz_> iainfarrell,   understood...  did the original logo suffer on these?
<iainfarrell> but not in black and white
<iainfarrell> yeah, a bit actually. not easy to reproduce in black and white for example
<coz_> iainfarrell,  because of the values
<coz_> understood
<directhex> better in pure mono than in varying qualities of greyscale
<coz_>  and the font?  has that been "officialized"
<iainfarrell> directhex: exactly which is something we did initially and community had come around to in some custom themes too
<directhex> coz_, it's not final
<iainfarrell> coz_: I'm not sure what "officialized" means :)
<directhex> coz_, i.e. iainfarrell won't give me a .ttf
<iainfarrell> the logo type is and I have a close to final font which we're going to be sharing soon
<iainfarrell> but it's not all finished
<directhex> coz_, the *design* of the font is final, but not the actual implementation
<coz_> directhex,   ah I was about to ask for an example :)
<iainfarrell> exactly
<iainfarrell> so the guys working on the font are close to having a full latin type set
<iainfarrell> once we have that we'll do some internal testing
<iainfarrell> and then open a public beta
<iainfarrell> but we've not worked out the details yet
<coz_>  very cool .. look forward to the font
<iainfarrell> but it's coming your way soon
<iainfarrell> yeah
<iainfarrell> it's lovely
<coz_> iainfarrell,  all the more reason to make the logo "lovely: :)
<iainfarrell> well it does make the logo lovely
<iainfarrell> that's the one that's everywhere now
<coz_> :)  ok we can disagree with no bad feelings :)
<iainfarrell> coz_: course we can :) I think we made a great logo and have a foundation for some fabulous work
<coz_> has anyone worked on "case" badges?  the origianl one  submitted a few years back is still nice in my opinion
<iainfarrell> and we want people to contribute and have conversations like this
<iainfarrell> coz_: case badge? forgive my ignorance :)
<coz_> iainfarrell,  let me upload the origianl hold on
<iainfarrell> k
<coz_> have to find it   hold on
<coz_> iainfarrell,    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/UBUNTU/00.svg
<iainfarrell> ahh ok
<iainfarrell> so where was that used?
<coz_> iainfarrell,  well it was supposed to be used  for companies making ubuntu systems  so that it would be tagged with that case stickerr
<iainfarrell> coz_: I see
<iainfarrell> There are new stickers in development but they're being done as part of our work with our marketing and OEM team
<iainfarrell> so I'm not sure we'd share them because we're trying to validate that things work with Ubuntu
<iainfarrell> as opposed to people just being able to add their own stickers
<iainfarrell> otherwise it's like the wild west out there :)
<coz_> iainfarrell,   understood... this one was made by a fellow several years ago I just edited it for him... but  is it possible to join the marketing team?
<iainfarrell> I was talking about the in house team, I don't know how we handle marketing with the community actually
<iainfarrell> I think there is a team
<coz_> iainfarrell,  mm  too bad we cant get into the "house" team
<iainfarrell> well they're Canonical employees but I imagine they have the same remit as us to engage with the community
<iainfarrell> but I'm not sure who you'd talk to :s
<coz_> iainfarrell,  understood... just wondering why they pick who they pick as employees... rather background in the field etc etc :)
<iainfarrell> yeah, sorry as a project Manager in the design team I'm not the person to ask but have a look on the Ubuntu wiki
<iainfarrell> Ihave to run I'm afraid
<iainfarrell> good chatting though
<iainfarrell> catch you later
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-03
<ZachK_> hello?
<Cimi> ivanka: hi! :) all fine there in london? :)
<ivanka> cimi: hi!
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-04
<jussi> WHere would I find a copy of the current default ubuntu background? (the aubergine one) :D
 * thorwil enjoys http://musicmachinery.com/2010/05/21/the-swinger/
<vish> jussi: /usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png
<jussi> vish: is that also available on kubuntu? and warty? o.O
<vish> jussi: not sure if it is in kubuntu ;)  , but yeah , it is called warty , we like warty! :D
<jussi> lol
<jussi> vish: do you think you could drop it over to me via email?
<vish> jussi: you want to use it as a wallpaper , of for editing?
<jussi> as a wallpaper - I like the purple... er aubergine :P
<vish> jussi: email ,id?
<jussi> jussi01 ubuntu . com
<vish> jussi: cool, sent
<jussi> vish: thanks!
<vish> np.
<vish> DanRabbit: gah! http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/d0od/~3/yjGEdEXi1iY/maverick-to-ship-with-new-transparent.html
<vish> most ill informed blog ever, again!
<vish> oh , oops , no dashua ;p
<zniavre> Equinox engine ?
<zniavre> HA FOUND IT
<zniavre> ooops
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-05
<thorwil> kwwii: hi! why is the selection color of Ambiance (Colors tab) mapped to not only item selections but also buttons?
<thorwil> the button color is the most puzzling aspect of the theme for me, anyway
<thorwil> vish: let it be known that i finally switched to Lucid.
 * thorwil had his poor pc work through the entire night to resize partitions
<vish> thorwil: welcome to the left side of the world ;p
<thorwil> :)
<thorwil> what do i have to touch in the Ambiance gtkrc to get rid of the scrollbar rounding?
<thorwil> nm, found it
<thorwil> i copied Ambiance to elsewhere, with a new name and created a symlink in /usr/share/themes
<thorwil> my gtkrc customization works, but the metacity stuff doesn't. looks like the metacity theme isn't found. what could i be doing wrong?
<vish> thorwil: weird, have you copied the metacity ? and edited the "MetacityTheme=New theme name" in the index.theme?
<thorwil> vish: yes. figured it out, commented the wrong stuff out, making file illegal
<vish> ah , k.
<vish> thorwil: how can we permanently import a png into inkscape?
<thorwil> vish: seems i got rid of scrollbar buttons, scrollbar rounding and all the strangely dark buttons and comboboxes. and the window close button is no longer red and the trough is gone :)
<thorwil> vish: recent builds of inkscape ask you if you want to link or embed
<thorwil> vish: i think there's no release with that feature, yet
<vish> aw..it keeps throwing a fit "image not found" when imported image is moved ;)
<vish> thorwil: scrollbar buttons? you mean the arrows?
<thorwil> yes
<vish> thorwil: ah yeah , removing them seems neat
<vish> recently been using it like that
<thorwil> vish: you can edit the path to the image in image properties (or directly in the svg, if need be)
<thorwil> vish: if the image is in the same dir or below, getting rid of the absolute path makes linking more robust
<vish> yeah , i was hoping if i could embed it permanently and delete the source .. but will wait for the future to arrive soon ;)
<vish> thorwil: if you install the new murrine ppa that kwwii mentioned , you dont need a separate metacity.xml, its all in 1 gtkrc
<vish> thorwil: ie , if you plan on hacking the theme , better to do it that way ;)
<thorwil> vish: hmm, like the gtkrc isn't complicated enough, already :)
<vish> ha
<zniavre> metacity inside the gtkrc?
<zniavre> wow !
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-06
<thorwil> hmm, now on lucid, i can't drag a window from one workspace to the next anymore. anyone knows what's going on there?
<coz_> thorwil,   mm  not sure ,,, is compiz running?
<thorwil> coz_: yes. guess i need to use some compiz-settings tool to enable this
<coz_> thorwil,  yeah most likely... make sure that most of the window mangement plugins...Put...move... etc ... the important ones are enabled
<coz_> thorwil,  also make sure the compiz extra plugins are installed   and also did you try the experimental plugins available ?
<thorwil> coz_: installed the simple CompizConfig Settings Manager and enabled "Edge Flip Move" in Desktop Wall / Edge Flipping
<coz_> thorwil,  ok is it working the way you want now?
<thorwil> yes. bit by bit, things get comfortable again
<coz_> :)
<thorwil> if only an installation was like branching, where you could create a diff of your own chnages and apply that on top of an update
<coz_> thorwil,  well for compiz  you already know you can save the settings yes?
<thorwil> heck, even just an automatic journal of configuration changes would help
<coz_> compiz settings can be exported and imported with ease
<thorwil> coz_: in principal yes. after evolution, x-chat, liferea and firefox, i didn't think of any other apps to handle export/import. though i copied the entire home folder and etc from previous installation, anyway
<coz_> thorwil,  mm.. well if you have  compizconfig-settings-manager installed it is much easier just to export compiz settings and save them  ...then export on new install or other system.. of course evolution has always been a pain for me... so I dont bother with that one :)
<coz_> rather import on new install
<thorwil> now the last few concept presentations on http://gimp-brainstorm.blogspot.com/ are ... rather odd
<knome> kwwii, pling! uds jaunty group photo :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-30
<thorwil> kinda funny. right after the powerusers logo contest and my questionable winning entry, i now got a personal request for a Ubuntu Friendly logo
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-01
<thorwil> http://www.boingboing.net/2011/06/01/interview-tom-hulme.html
<coz_> mainerror,   you are the fellow with the keyboard shortcuts image ,,,yes?
<mainerror> indeed
<coz_> mainerror,   http://git.compiz.org/~smspillaz/image-overlay/    sam made a plugin at my request,, it needs a scale slider because the image is way too big
<coz_> mainerror,  it uses your image for shortcuts
<coz_> mainerror,  though I would let you know
<coz_> mainerror,  I dont when it will be included by default
<coz_> not sure how he is deciding that
<mainerror> hah awesome!
<coz_> mainerror,  however he did say this is an excellent  "how to " plugin as well
<coz_> mainerror,  he did it in about 5 minutes :)
<coz_> mainerror,  it is an excellent idea .. it can also be used for other things but  the keyboard shortcuts for Unity is needed :)
<coz_> mainerror, he also said "this is insanely simple to code" :)
<mainerror> yup, I'm still trying to figure out how to install that thing
<mainerror> :D
<coz_> mainerror, well on unity you will have to compile it your self,, let me find a how to if there is one hold on
<mainerror> oh right
<mainerror> I know where to find that information then ;)
<coz_> ok cool
 * mainerror is an Ask Ubuntu user after all :p
<coz_> cool :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-02
<coz_> hey guys
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-03
<Jonny> Hey guys
<Jonny> anyone online?
<Jonny> maybeeeeee?
<Jonny> aw ok.
<vish> thorwil: (i forgot to mention) it seems Mark had read your " goodbye" mail and was asking wtf was going on in artwork..
<thorwil> vish: asked when, where/who?
<Viper550> hey
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-04
<thorwil> oh those crazy blender folks: http://cdn.blendernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/gsoc-large.png
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-05
<palhmbs> hey guys - I'm looking for a update.gif icon (an animated one)
<palhmbs> I've looked in a few icons sets, but it seems to be missing.
<thorwil> palhmbs: where do you have the name from?
<thorwil> the only GIFs in /usr/share/icons here are ./hicolor/32x32/animations/softwarecenter-loading-installed.gif and ./hicolor/32x32/animations/softwarecenter-loading.gif
<palhmbs> well the name _could_ be wrong - all I'm interested in is a moving web element that GPL really - to show the user that the item is being "updated"
<palhmbs> thorwil, I have absolutely nothing in that directory :(
<palhmbs> I've grepp'ed for gif's but none in the icons folder at all.
<thorwil> grepped?
<thorwil> find -name "*.gif"
<palhmbs> yeah that
<palhmbs> any ideas - is there any OSS site devoted to GPL icons ?
<thorwil> you could use http://ajaxload.info/, though it just says free use
<palhmbs> thorwil, yeah it's for a OSS web project - so I have to be able to verify the GPL.
<thorwil> palhmbs: i doubt including what is essentially public domain in a gpl project will be an issue
<thorwil> the gpl isn't even a good match for icons
<palhmbs> well I tried slipping in a tick mark to show progress on a UL list - and got asked where the icon came from - ended up having to use an openclipart.org one :(
<thorwil> palhmbs: you could look into the source tree of a gpl project that uses such a loading animation, as it might end up baked into the binary, i guess
<thorwil> or create one yourself
<palhmbs> that's a thought - but I think I'll try slipping past the ajaxload one for now... at least that page says it's "free"
<thorwil> oh, and you can extract softwarecenter-loading.gif from a package
<thorwil> it's listed for http://pkgs.org/ubuntu-10.10/ubuntu-updates-main-i386/software-center_3.0.8_all.deb.html
<palhmbs> I look into that, & thanks for your thoughtfulness - it'd be nice if we OSS web developers had a central repository of this sort somewhere!
<thorwil> you're welcome. you mean a central multi-icon-set repository?
<palhmbs> yeah, just for different free license based stuff. - That has an awesome index / search capability - easy to use and find things, and has _almost everything_
 * palhmbs dreams on.
<aced125> hey guys
<aced125> any1 there?
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-05-29
<windbuntu> is anyone here?
<windbuntu> i have a suggestion
<Banjaxed_bob> Has Iain Farrell left this group?  If so, who's running the wallpaper submission group over on flickr?
<Banjaxed_bob> damn.
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-06-01
<bobweaver> Any one know where I can find the man that goes by the name Martin Owens  aka doctormo
<Flannel> bobweaver: Email might be your best bet.  He's been idle 23 days on IRC.
<bobweaver> Cool I sent him a email
