#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-10
<flint> Good morning from LinuxWorld Boston.
<flint> ogra, ping
<ajmitch> isn't the edubuntu meeting in ~2hrs?
<flint> ajmitch, sorry, we went through a time switch on the east coast last weekend...  
<flint> :^)
<Seveas> @now UTC
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 05 2006, 10:05:01
<Seveas> yes, 2 hours 
<ajmitch> Seveas: easy for me, being UTC+12 :)
<Seveas> hehe
<jane_> hi flint
<jane_> thanks for the chuckle
<ajmitch> morning jane_ 
<jane_> hi ajmitch 
<spacey> @now CEST
<spacey> @now CET
<Ubugtu> Current time in CET: April 05 2006, 12:13:07
<jane_> @now CAT
<jane_> hrm
<spacey> @now Etc/Zulu
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/Zulu: April 05 2006, 10:14:12
<spacey> @now posixrules
<Ubugtu> Current time in posixrules: April 05 2006, 06:14:45
<flint> JaneW, you know that I live to serve...  sorry for the delay, I am packing out of my room in South Boston.
<flint> I basically spent yesterday listening to IBM and wondering why they havent heard the word "Ubuntu".
<flint> :^)
<flint> Wed Apr  5 06:32:26 EDT 2006
<sivang> flint: they have, I can assure you :)
<sivang> flint: you just need to talk to the right crowd :)
<flint> sivang, you are wise in your knowledge that one sould understand the non monolothic nature of IBM.  Scratch the surface and you find genius warlords in a winners game for survival.  
<flint> sivang, and that is on a good day! :^)
<sivang> flint:  :)
<highvoltage> @schedule utc
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 05 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 14:00: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 08:00: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 14:00: Xubuntu
<highvoltage> omg i forgot it's wednesday
<highvoltage> i have to go to the bank at 12:00 utc :/
<flint> highvoltage, jonathan please do not refer to me as your diety while online, simple prayer and worship is sufficient...] 
<flint> :^)
<flint> ...as jonathan's diety I must remember to create in South Africa online banking...
<highvoltage> :P
<flint> hehe
<highvoltage> flint: i have online banking, but can't do certain stuff on there
<highvoltage> (like talk to financial advisor to try to figure out how to stay out of financial trouble :) )
<flint> highvoltage, I wish I had godlike powers for real now jonathan... :^(
<highvoltage> flint: hehe
<flint> It is 07:00 EDT so I am gonna kick off this edubuntu meeting by congratulating all
<flint> our plan to keep edubuntu a secret is working perfectly! 
<flint> no one no where anywhere at LinuxWorld Boston is advertising, offering, extending or acknowledging edubuntu.
<flint> we have succeded!  our secret is safe!
<flint> ... and this is despite my best efforts to the contrary.
<Seveas> flint, edubuntu meeting is still an hour away ;)
<flint> actually, the guys at the LTSP boot told me in private that they had "heard" of edubuntu, but that was off the record, and the sales guy at the WYSE booth wanted to sell me a buncha old xterms... Seveas give me space here I am on a rant...
<flint> :^)
<Seveas> flint, hehe, rant ahead ;)
<Seveas> I'm not surprised though - edubuntu is still a very young project
<flint> Seveas, jeez man the oldest thing at the show is me... it is a young biz.
<highvoltage> flint: i'll be at linuxworld south africa, pimping edubuntu
<highvoltage> JaneW: think you'll be able to make it there too?
<flint> highvoltage, you got a booth jonathan?  (Oh yea, you will also need a plad suit that is too tight and a very loud tie)
<flint> :^)
<flint> highvoltage, otherwise you are perfect for this job.
<JaneW> highvoltage: sadly not, I asked silbs to pay for some piddly advertising and I got the usual terse NO
* highvoltage stares at flint with a confused expression
<JaneW> flint: not everyone here was alive in the 70s
<highvoltage> JaneW: TSF has some free space, so if they could pay for your plane tickets, we could be there
<JaneW> except you and I :P
<JaneW> highvoltage: I will see what I can do...
<flint> highvoltage, well, except for a fatal flaw which disqualifies you.  Knowledge of the facts and acutal insight into edubuntu.  sorry jonathan, fatal flaws...
<highvoltage> isn'e elmo old too?
* highvoltage bites the bait
<flint> JaneW, except for the brain damage, I kinda liked the 70's...
<highvoltage> flint: which flaw?
* sivang wished he has been born in the groovy 70s
<flint> highvoltage, someone marketing cannot be burdened with a knowledge of the product.  that flaw.
<highvoltage> sivang: no, don't. it would mean that you had to be a teenager in the 80's! heaven forbid!
<flint> sivang, and go through life with a 50% iq reduction? na..
<highvoltage> flint: i'm quite good with that, you should see me in action sometime
<flint> highvoltage, touche...
<highvoltage> :)
<flint> :^)
<sivang> flint, highvoltage : would have been witness to the creation of personal computerss... :)
<flint> simira, funny i am still waiting for the creation of personal computers, think it will happen soon?
<JaneW> guys pls speak slowly in today's meeting
<JaneW> I am handicapped by my neck
<JaneW> luckilly I was just given something to eat, else I might have died quietly here...
<flint> JaneW, what is up with your body?  you ok?
<JaneW> flint: no idea
<JaneW> perhaps age?
<JaneW> my neck just decided to seize up
<JaneW> and continues to worsten instead of improve
<JaneW> I have been reclinded in my bed all day
<JaneW> not an optimal typing position
<ogra> highvoltage, it wasnt *that* bad to be a teenie in the 80s :)
<flint> JaneW, I am hurt, I wanted to remain as the pain in your neck... :^)
<sivang> poor JaneW :-/
<flint> ogra, good morning Ollie, our girl Jane is hurting, this is not good.
<JaneW> I assume I'll live
<JaneW> so life goes on...
<flint> JaneW, try cynicism and bitterness, it always works for me!
<JaneW> ha
<flint> also drugs, I am a child of the 70's...
<JaneW> heh
<JaneW> well for someone who never medicates, I am on post-operative painkillers
<flint> well i can see you picked a fine time to give up snorting heroin... :^)
<flint> I gotta go ge more coffee before I can continue to abuse the infirm...
<JaneW> er I don't think you can snort heroin
<JaneW> didn't you watch Pulp Fiction!?
<flint> JaneW, your obvious ignorance on the subject of recreational opiates it is a great comfort to me 
<JaneW> it's supposed to be melted and injected (according to Train Spotting)
<flint> JaneW, they are a serious and deadly topic.  and movie knowledge is really all you need :^)  now rest and get better.
<flint> btw the reference started witha paraphrase from the movie "Airplane" by the Zuker brothers... 
<JaneW> was recently rerun here
<JaneW> and I laughed again, despite myself
<flint> JaneW, welcome back ...and stop calling me Shirley...
<JaneW> I keep detaching the # I am speaking in
<Seveas> 'sup shirley?
<JaneW> shirley you are not upset with me?
<flint> Seveas, surely you do not mean me...
<flint> JaneW, surely i would never be upset with you... ok it looses someting when Lesly Neilson is not saying it.  (god rest his soul:^)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu
<flint> for the assembled masses I would like to re-open with my deathless prose...
<flint> I would like to re-announce that our plan to keep edubuntu a secret is working perfectly!  No one anywhere at LinuxWorld Boston is advertising, offering, extending or acknowledging edubuntu.  Thus I remain pleased to report that we have succeded!  our secret is safe! Actually, the guys at the LTSP boot told me in private that they had "heard" of edubuntu, but that was off the record, and the sales guy at the WYSE booth wanted to 
<flint> sell me a buncha old xterms... 
<flint> thus concludes my report from Boston LinuxWorld USA.
<JaneW> thanks flint
<JaneW> ok who is here for the Edubuntu meeting?
<flint> JaneW, are you really putting that vast advertising budget the foundation is giving you into pain drugs?
<flint> :^)
<JaneW> flint we get no budget what so ever
<JaneW> despite several requests for a few small promotional and branding items
<JaneW> there's not much more I can do at this point, besides
<JaneW> 1) Give up
<ogra> and we dont have many community people in the US that could do such a booth (i only know three)
<JaneW> 2) Fund stuff myself
<ogra> (two of them regulary attend this meeting)
<flint> ogra, I am gonna be teaching courses at three symposia in New England this quarter on edubuntu.  Think of the fees that I will garner from this!
<ogra> JaneW, edubuntu promotion on fairs works well in germany ... withot any funding
<flint> ogra, my fortune is assured.
<flint> :^)
<flint> so if JaneW would only share her drugs...
<ogra> flint, sure, but you are local, so either organize something yourself or stop complaining :P its a job for the LoCo teams, if they fail, complain at them
<flint> ogra, i am not complaining I am whining... there is a difference you know.
<flint> but the topic of budget is a dogged one. 
<ogra> edubuntu was at the Cebit, at the LinuxDays in Essen and will have a booth on LinuxTag in wiesbaden, without any intervention from canonical or from me
<jsgotangco> nor in LinuxWorld Manila
<ogra> this much for germany ...
<ogra> oh and i forgot, it was as well on TV with the cebit booth
<jsgotangco> some people are good self starters :)
<flint> ogra, but germany is a socialist anarchy.
<flint> america is a facist state.  we need to bribe the officials in power.  that takes a budget :^)
* jsgotangco doesn't feel comfortable when money is involved
<flint> I would propose that a new topic be considered - edubuntu budget.
<JaneW> ok money whining aside
<flint> jsgotangco, you just hate politics...
<JaneW> ogra: everything ok on your side?
<ogra> yep 
<JaneW> ogra: good
<jsgotangco> flint: you're saying grassroots advocacy doesn't work
<ogra> i have not much to say ... 
<JaneW> you mentioned bugs from mdz
<ogra> we had flight 6
<JaneW> are they edubuntu related or other
<ogra> yes, ubuntu bugs
<flint> ogra, kevin cole found a program that kills the terminals on flight 5
<JaneW> oic
<JaneW> how's flight 6 looking?
<JaneW> Anyone tested it yet?
<jsgotangco> sorry
<ogra> i thnik there are 3 or 4 edubuntu bugs among them
<JaneW> (Note I am going to have to slow down the typing - hurts)
* jsgotangco tested ubuntu-server and hunted xorg bugs
<ogra> one is from jsgotangco btw :) 
<flint> JaneW, been playing in Boston...
<ogra> we need a css for the about edubuntu page ;)
<flint> have not tested will test for Kevin Coles' bug when I get back to the lab.
<ogra> additionally highvoltage made this beautiful document: http://jonathancarter.co.za/docs/ed-gs/
<ogra> i'll replace the contents of edubuntu-docs with it 
<jsgotangco> that's beautiful
<ogra> else we're still waiting to see some of the designer artwork
<ogra> thats it so far from the tech side
<ogra> ohhh
<flint> highvoltage, where do you find the time?  that page is excellent.
<ogra> and sabdfl approved that we can get rid of this darn "server" installoption
<JaneW> ogra: do you have an eta on the designer work
<ogra> it wont be on flight 7 i hopew
<JaneW> ?
<JaneW> highvoltage: nice doc! :))
<JaneW> ogra: won't?
<ogra> JaneW, nope
<ogra> apart from silbs telling me that my colors might get changed fopr the designer stuff i havent heard anything
<JaneW> ok
<ogra> (i'm lagging like hell here ...)
<ogra> grr
<jsgotangco> its already 2006 and we still experience lag
<ogra> JaneW, yes won't :)
<ogra> finally
<ogra> i was fighting for that since dapper started
* JaneW is lagged too
<ogra> so this screen will only have: "install to HD" and "install a workstation" http://jonathancarter.co.za/docs/ed-gs/images/cdboot.png
<ogra> (above the "Check ..." that is)
<flint> ogra, yea why would you only install as a server?
<ogra> flint, "server" actually means "minimal"
<ogra> that confused a lot of people 
<ogra> but renaming seems to be difficult, so we'll drop it completely
<jsgotangco> even ubuntu-server has better options
<jsgotangco> more descriptive
<flint> ogra, thankfully i am too illiturate to get confused...
<ogra> flint, and i thought guess you are just too lazy and hit enter for the default selection (the first one) :)
<ogra> -guess
<flint> ogra, what you call lazy i call excellent user interface design. 
<ogra> hehe
<flint> :^)  god I am a suckup.
* highvoltage arrives
<ogra> next topic ?
<highvoltage> flint: i created that page over friday evening and saturday morning :)
<ogra> highvoltage, we'll need to go through it once ... there are still some things in that need fixing ... but i think its the best doc we ever had up to now, thanks a lot
<jsgotangco> \o/
<highvoltage> ogra: np, there'll more where that came from
<highvoltage> (be more)
<ogra> :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, does ff open help:// links in yelp ? 
<highvoltage> just on the website stuff, the theming is coming along okay, although not completed yet.
<jsgotangco> ogra: it doesn't
<ogra> meh
<ogra> it would be cool to link it from the ff default page ...
<highvoltage> we'll be able to finish up when the edubuntu theming is finalised, since we want the website to resemble the system, building better brand assosiation
<JaneW> sorry I just had an nb phone call
<jsgotangco> ogra: it doesn't even know irc://
<olive> it does, if help:// is set in gconf 
<ogra> olive, oh, thats good news, i'll look into it
<ogra> thanks for the hint :)
<jsgotangco> you don't want to put it in yelp instead? it'll have a shiny new frontpage
<ogra> i think it should reside among the UbuntuServer Guide and the other docs in there 
<flint> ogra, I gotta say your idea of a ff link sounds good to me.
<ogra> i'm not sure if we can ship ubuntu-docs at all :( 
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
<ogra> since i was told it will grow a lot
<jsgotangco> those are good docs
<highvoltage> ogra: about the Schooltool link, will we get one in firefox or in the gnome-menus?
<ogra> highvoltage, i'd prefer ff
<highvoltage> ogra: me 2.
<flint> ogra, surely you cannot have space on the CD for jonathans page do you?
<highvoltage> currently it's about 600k large (which is quite big)
<highvoltage> but if i save the images as jpegs (which will distort them slightly), it should be able to come down to 200k
<ogra> flint, highvoltages page will be ~2M with screenshots in the end ... ubuntu-docs might grow to 10M or more
<ogra> s/will/might/
<highvoltage> although it's not complete yet, so when the docuemnt is more complete it will probably lean toward 400k
<jsgotangco> can you optimize the pngs?
<jsgotangco> pngcrush or something
<flint> ogra, you are a wizard, get over here and pack my suitcase! :^)
<ogra> sure you can use pngcrunch
<flint> ogra, jpegs are always firefox tasty
<highvoltage> ok, i'll try that instead of using jpegs
<ogra> we dont ship any language packs in the CD currently ... i'll need to make room before release for at least some of them
<flint> ogra, got to have european languages.  the chinese have a whole wall at this show (no kidding)
<JaneW> ogra: how do you select them?
<JaneW> by most popular?
<ogra> i guess so ...
<JaneW> ok, and then the rest will have to be d/led
<ogra> i thought selecting the same way ubuntu does (which is by most popular)
<ogra> but we probably should take into account where *we* are most popular
<jsgotangco> remove OOo then replace it with abiword, gnumeric and magicpoint :)
* jsgotangco hides
<flint> JaneW, I recommend the list begin with German and Dutch :^)
<ogra> flint, these are not very popular 
<ogra> (probably place 15 from the 90 langs we have)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: or gnome with xfce :)
<flint> ogra, I like 'em :^)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: aye, the xubuntu flight 6 is pretty solid
<jsgotangco> still ate 1.2GB of HD though
<ogra> we dont care about HDs :)
<ogra> only about isos ;)
<jsgotangco> true though 
<flint> we care about CD's
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i'm running xfce now, it's really come a far way, definately a strong candidate as default desktop in edubuntu, imo. ogra seems to agree there too, so i'm quite excited about that.
<jsgotangco> and we still get gtk2 love
<ogra> i dont agree for it as default, but optional :)
<flint> this is when you say, one language one CD.  Many languages one DVD.
<ogra> flint, we cant ship only one language on the CD 
<flint> kinda like the mondo mindi layout.  a core iso and options to fill the available space...
<flint> I did not say which language.  how many lang packs could you get on a CD comfortably...
<jsgotangco> 1
<jsgotangco> :D
<flint> jsgotangco, I think it is better than that. Gnome does amazing things with languages.
<ogra> flint, but KDE doesnt
<ogra> we ship both by default ... the KDE packs eat a lot more space
<jsgotangco> \o_ K D E _o/
<ogra> since they contain *all* translations for the *whole* KDE .... while we need translations for 6 apps or so
<flint> ogra, I never even tried to get to KDE.  It installs by default, oh it must to support kde based apps!
<ogra> yep
* flint senses a bitterness from ogra on this topic...
<ogra> i dont know if we'd have an option to split out kdeedu packs, pitti might know
<flint> but you cannot get around supporting the KDE apps.  so you need lang packs for both kde and gnome...
<flint> not to mention the actual console packs.
<flint> ogra, suppose we attacked the three packs with a spell check tokenizer per language?
<ogra> ??
<highvoltage> flint: you'll still be able to run KDE apps, if you apt-get install a KDE app, it will download the KDE libraries too
<ogra> "spell check tokenizer" ?
<highvoltage> flint: so it's not like KDE will be completely unsuported
<ogra> i still want to drop the KDE stuff asap
<jsgotangco> ogra: you'll be supporting them for 5 years though
<flint> each language has a spell checker, and if you took each lang pack and tokenized it based on the spell checker crib, you could gain dramatic compression improvement.
<ogra> yes, but i dont want to have the same issue with the next 5 year release
<flint> tokenized the lang pack that is.
<highvoltage> ogra: you mean after release, of course?
<flint> sadly this is a research project we have neither the time or resources to go after.
<ogra> highvoltage, dropping KDE ? yes ...
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> i think the sooner the better (after release).
<ogra> else it would already have been dropped
<highvoltage> heh.
<ogra> we need replacements first 
<ogra> and apps like kalzium are hard to replace
<flint> as I understand it there are 6  specific packages that need the kde stuff. 
<ogra> (its winning awards all over the world)
<ogra> flint, nope
<ogra> only one package .... 6 apps
<flint> ok gotcha.
<ogra> i just talked to pitti in -devel, he said its technically no problem, but it will produce another 100 packages
<ogra> (one for every lang)
<highvoltage> geez
<ogra> i'll need to discuss it with him ...
<ogra> and also see how much we'd really gain with it
<flint> I am out of time... thanks for the kind words...
<flint> sksk
<ogra> ciao flint 
<ogra> so any artwork/doc/community stuff left ? 
<highvoltage> not for today, from my side.
<jsgotangco> i can only bughunt/test for this cycle for now
<ogra> ok, so lets close the meeting then ...
<ogra> adjourned, thanks all
<JaneW> when is the cookbook debate going to be resolved?
<ogra> dunno, Pygi was talking about friday morning ...
<highvoltage> thanks ogra
<JaneW> ok friday is good
<jsgotangco> cookbook debate heh
<JaneW> except 10:00 - 11:00 UTC - chiro appt
<jsgotangco> that sounded really bad
<ogra> JaneW, he taled about 9:00 UTC
<ogra> *talked
<JaneW> ogra: ok good
<JaneW> I appologise for being a bit spaced out
<JaneW> I agree with flint that we need to focus on getting Edubuntu out there with the Dapper release
<JaneW> and will need more of a marketing and awareness drive
<JaneW> we have hung back due to Breezy being a bit limited, but now we need to get people using it and talking about it MORE
<JaneW> and the documentation is important to achieveing that goal
<JaneW> IMO
<ogra> sure ...
<ogra> but i'm fine with jonathans doc for now ... if we dont get a cookbook, we'll at least have this one ...
<JaneW> so more stuff like highvoltage's doc will be good
<JaneW> yes agreed
<JaneW> it's neat, friendly, easy to read and understand
<JaneW> that what we need
<ogra> additionally i'm writing a bunch of LTSP docs, merge them, add some info about the edu apps, and you have a cookbook
<JaneW> excellent
<ogra> did you ever take a look at the server guide and the admin guide from dappers ubuntu-docs ? 
<ogra> it covers already most of our stuff 
<pips1> ogra, is that server guide you are talking about in the 'Help' of Dapper?
<ogra> yep
<pips1> ok, i shall check it out
<ogra> there is desktop guide, server guide and packaging guide 
<ogra> and about ubuntu
<pips1> ogra, I finally got flight6 running with internet access
<ogra> just open yelp on a dapper machine
<ogra> yay
<pips1> the german localisation works ok, as far as I could tell so far
<ogra> good 
<pips1> I'll do some more testing later
<ogra> (lest move to #edubuntu)
<ogra> *lets
<pips1> i wasn't able to login with my thinpad as client via pxe, though, need to investigate further
<pips1> ok
<pips1> --> edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Apr 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu
<Gloubiboulga> ok, xubuntu meeting is supposed to have begun, but Jani and Daniele are not there :/
<Gloubiboulga> I've sent them a mail, I hope they'll come...
<luzi> jani said that he'll be late
<Gloubiboulga> luzi, ok thanks :)
<Gloubiboulga> there are only 2 items which need to be discussed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuMeetingAgenda-2006-04-05
* sivang checks the agenda
* sivang wonders if installing xubuntu-desktop will clash with ubuntu-desktop
<Gloubiboulga> sivang, I don't think so
<Gloubiboulga> but there's a problem with kubuntu-desktop
<luzi> Gloubiboulga, what do you think about the logo?
<Gloubiboulga> luzi, as I write on the ML, I'm not sure that the mouse in the logo is really the best idea
<Gloubiboulga> *wrote
<sivang> Gloubiboulga: where can the logo be seen ?
<sivang> (I don't have xubuntu installed)
<Gloubiboulga> sivang, http://www.dsslive.org/xubuntu/tmp/artworks/html/logos.html
<Gloubiboulga> the column on the right are some proposed logos
<luzi> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuArtwork
<sivang> why the mouse?
<olive> why not ? :)
* sivang feels this like denotes weakness
<Kinnison> sivang: The xfce logo is a mouse iirc
<Gloubiboulga> the mouse is the Xfce logo
<Riddell> Gloubiboulga: what's the problem with kubuntu-desktop?
<anstei> hi everyone, sorry i'm a bit late
<ogra> Riddell, it installs KDE ? 
<Gloubiboulga> Riddell, let me find the message in the xubuntu ml
<thomerz> hmm i like the logo with the mouse :)
<sivang> Kinnison: you also interested in Xubuntu ? :)
<Gloubiboulga> Riddell, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2006-April/000888.html
<Kinnison> sivang: I used to comaintain the xfce packages in debian
* Riddell politely ignores ogra 
<ogra> :)
* sivang apologizes fo rthe ignorance about the mouse
<Gloubiboulga> so, about the mouse, I think that Xubuntu is not Ubuntu with Xfce
<Riddell> Gloubiboulga: ok, I'll give that some testing soon
<luzi> maybe it's a bit more than ubuntu and xfce, but these two are the 'main components'
<Gloubiboulga> xubuntu's aim is to be light, that's why xfce has been choosen
<Gloubiboulga> Riddell, thanks :)
<Gloubiboulga> luzi, that's true
<Gloubiboulga> anyone else has a point of vue on this logo question ?
<Gloubiboulga> we should vote for this :)
<luzi> i agree with some people on the ML: the logo with the mouse is good, the colors are too KDEish
<luzi> i like these colors: http://www.doink.ch/xubuntu-logo/
<Gloubiboulga> so what about a grey logo (with or without the mouese)?
<luzi> grey would be good, too
<Gloubiboulga> luzi, I like the second one
<luzi> it's more or less the colors from the Xfce.org webpage ...
<jurjenst> luzi: I too like some more blue in it... only grey is too flat
<jurjenst> the top logo in the luzi page would be my pick
<jurjenst> perhaps with the bigger greyed mouse of the other logo page
<jurjenst> the triangle logo would be too way off from the xfce logo to be understood
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Apr 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<Gloubiboulga> ok, so I guess that (almost) every one agree with the mouse in the logo
<Gloubiboulga> and colours could be grey/blue
<luzi> yep, i  think you're right
<Gloubiboulga> lets wait the big boss and we'll define the one we pick then, ok?
<luzi> alright
<Gloubiboulga> 2. goodies meta package :)
<Gloubiboulga> this package can't be installed for the moment, but could be fixed
<Gloubiboulga> I think that it should be installable, now that isos are available
<Gloubiboulga> for now the policy was to wait after the non-yet-ported plugins to be ported
<Gloubiboulga> it's a more technical question.. any thoughs?
<Gloubiboulga> ok... :)
<jurjenst> You mean a package that installs the most common xfce packages even if you already have the normal ubuntu desktop installed?
<jurjenst> or an add-on on the xubuntu release CD?
<Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, not really, it's a package that installs all the panel applets
<Gloubiboulga> it can't be on the CD because thoses applets are in universe
<jurjenst> ah... and xubuntu should be as lean as possible?
<Gloubiboulga> but it'd make things easier to install several tools in one shot
<Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, it's a good way to discover Xfce possibilities for new users imo
<sivang> omg, this is amazing
<jurjenst> when it's in universe... I don't know if it is worth the effort... 
<sivang> looks like a better GNOME
<jurjenst> just get the most common tools in main would be better
<Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, yes I agree
<jurjenst> when it is very usefull get it on the CD by default
<Gloubiboulga> I don't think that it's *very* usefull, even if i'd like to see the panel plugins on the CD
<jurjenst> perhaps a specific version of add/remove programs would be nice with losts of goodies
<Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, good idea :)
<jurjenst> it is possible to create seperate data files for add/remove applications for xfce?
<Gloubiboulga> I don't know
<jurjenst> it is far more work than a small dep application but it would be much better for people to browse without getting everything installed directly
<Gloubiboulga> indeed
<luzi_> jurjenst, which add/remove app are you talking about?
<Gloubiboulga> the one which comes with ubuntu I think
<jurjenst> is xfce4-appfinder something like the ubuntu add/remove applications (the one in the start menu?)
<luzi_> i don't think the gnome add/remove app is planned for xubuntu
<Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, no, it lists installed applications
<jurjenst> it looked like it... :(
<Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, just to make things clear: your idea is to install plugins in the default install and set up a add/remove dialog box, right?
<Gloubiboulga> or the add/remove would install the package too?
<jurjenst> I tink it is best to port the gnome-app-install package to xfce (it is written in python) or is the GTK+ library already in your distro...
<jurjenst> and then create xml files for the goodies
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<jurjenst> is GTK already on the iso?
<Gloubiboulga> yes, Xfce uses GTK
<jurjenst> so it's possible to just write xml files for all your favourite apps and package a xfce-app-finder... it will take some days work but it would be nice ;)
<Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, would you be interested/could you work on this?
<Gloubiboulga> we'll have to discuss this with Jani first, but if he's ok...
<jurjenst> it even looks like a single file:  /usr/share/gnome-app-install/featured.txt with all the packages...
<luzi> Gloubiboulga, do you think jani is still coming? i've got to leave soon...
<jurjenst> so I you give me a list of your fav files it should be a breeze to package... just some polish love
<Gloubiboulga> luzi, I don't think so :(
<jurjenst> Gloubiboulga: can you create a file with one package name for earch line and put it online somewhere?
<Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, yep I think so :)
<jurjenst> the rest of the info seams to be pulled out of dpkg
<Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, could you join #xubuntu ?
<jurjenst> ok
<Gloubiboulga> I think we can end the meeting here
<luzi> ok
<Gloubiboulga> I'll send a mail on the list about what we've discussed (which is not much)
<luzi> yeah, do that
<Gloubiboulga> thanks every one 
<sivang> btw, the mouse splash running in the ubuntu circle is amazing :)
<Gloubiboulga> sivang, I totally agree :)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> that's the bling that caught me first hand
<jsgotangco> although its been there since
<Seveas> sivang++ the mouse splash is wicked 
<sivang> Seveas: indeed, I wish we had a dapper doing that same thing for dapper :)
<Seveas> hahahaha
<ogra> dancing duck ? 
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> diso duck
<ogra> hehe
<jsgotangco> s/diso/disco
<jsgotangco> ogra, how about the edubuntu logo with the arm waving heh
<ogra> heh
<sivang> ogra: indeed
<sivang> :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Apr 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 21:00 UTC: Community Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-11
<Meyer> @schedule Brazil/East
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Brazil/East: 06 Apr 05:00: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 17:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 09:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 11:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 11:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 18:00: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Dapper Development Status | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 21:00 UTC: Community Council
<pitti> hey all
<doko> moin
* Kinnison offers coffee around
* mvo takes a cup of tea
<Keybuk> Kinnison: I'm trying tea so stiff the spoon stands up in it
* infinity has a pre-meeting smoke.
* ogra joins infinity
<Kinnison> Keybuk: I find that forms a film on the top which I dislike
<ogra> (with a fresh coffe)
<mdz> everyone here?
<ogra> +e
* dholbach is
<fabbione> yeah
<ogra> heno, hey congrats :)
<ogra> and welcome in the team :)
<heno> hey distro team!
<dholbach> yeah... congratulations heno :)
<mdz> yes,  before we start, everyone welcome heno aboard
<JaneW> ping:  iwj, Kamion, Kinnison , Riddell, seb128, sivan
<JaneW> g
* dholbach hugs heno
<mdz> Kinnison is here
* Kinnison is
<JaneW> heno \0/
<heno> thanks all :)
<Keybuk> bah
<JaneW> hi Kinnison 
<ogra> everyone is gone again ...
<Kinnison> hi jane
<Riddell> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> hi Riddell 
<mdz> mvo: here?
* Kinnison hands jane coffee and a massage-inna-can
<Kamion> here
<mvo> mdz: hello
<JaneW> Kinnison: you have no idea how much I need that
<mdz> Mithrandir,infinity,BenC?
<Kinnison> JaneW: you seem to have been suffering for a few days
* seb128__ kicks wanadoo
<dholbach> mdz: infinity has a 'pre-meeting smoke'.
<JaneW> ping:   sivang
<infinity> mdz: PING
<BenC> mdz: pong
<JaneW> Kinnison: nod, it SUCKS
* pitti hugs heno
<infinity> Err.
<infinity> Caps lock, yay.
<mdz> Mithrandir: ping
<JaneW> seems everyone is here besides sivang
<JaneW> Mithrandir is on vac
<JaneW> and gave apologies and an update
<pitti> Riddell?
<JaneW> Riddell is here
<Riddell> hi pi
<pitti> oops, yes
<Riddell> pitti: 
* pitti waves to Scotland
<mdz> JaneW: StaffCalendar disagrees
<JaneW> mdz: erk, he said he applied for last week, but due to original Dapper release date you asked him to take this week....
<mdz> JaneW: yes, that sounds likely, but nonetheless StaffCalendar mentions nothing of the sort
<mdz> anyway, let's get started
<mdz> BenC: care to start us off?
<JaneW> mdz: I'll prod him about it
<BenC> - Kernel status: Stabalizing on all platforms. Lots of major bugs fixed in the last uload (20.30).
<BenC> - Bug status: Way behind. Recent flight release along with the few days vacation left me behind. Catching back up over this weekend.
<mdz> yes, in my sweep I've come across quite a few kernel bugs which haven't been looked at yet
<mdz> maybe a kernel-oriented bug day would help?
<fabbione> +1
<BenC> yeah, probably
<Keybuk> BenC: any hope of fixing the PHP subsystem bug?
<Keybuk> because that's quite a critical one
<dholbach> bug day next week friday
<fabbione> PHP???
<BenC> Keybuk: done in 20.30
<Keybuk> at least, for those of us who don't have Mactels
<BenC> PNP
<mdz> modprobe php
* infinity shudders.
<Keybuk> 20.30 ?
<fabbione> [kphp/0] 
<BenC> last kernel upload
<Keybuk> ah
<mdz> dholbach: can you work with the kernel team to assemble some basic docs for kernel bug triage?
<infinity> Keybuk: The current kernel seems to make PNP happy.
<dholbach> mdz: i will do that
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> dholbach: next?
<dholbach> icon-mission: tangerine hit Universe, hope to get Dave's icons for Human soon
<dholbach> this week (done): bug triage, bug fixing, icon-cache stuff
<dholbach> this week (todo): more bug triage, preparing Universe for Release
<dholbach> next week: more bug triage, bug day, GNOME 2.14.1
<mdz> I saw some 2.14.1 already, were they early?
<seb128__> no, that's time
<dholbach> no... just some urgent bug fixes in between 14.0 and 14.1
<seb128__> 1 month since 2.14.0
<mdz> ok
<mdz> dholbach: how are you coping with the bug volume?
<dholbach> ok-ish... i would have to work twice the time to get "it done"
<mdz> what is the most time-consuming part?
<dholbach> it's just the volume
<JaneW> dholbach: you can tutor me on bug triage, now that most goals are implemented there's less status update chasing etc
<mdz> too many incoming bugs to look at?
<infinity> JaneW: That would be lovely.
<dholbach> you need to have overview over all the bugs... so i coudn't pick a part and say that's the problem, yes, it's quite a lot these days
<seb128__> mdz: yeah, really lot of desktop bugs for the number of people working on them
<dholbach> JaneW: yeah, i can do that :-)
* mvo thinks that we get a lot of bugs overall
<iwj> Many of the bug reports seem of very low quality, too.  You can spend a lot of time in back-and-forth with the submitter.
<mdz> seb128__,dholbach: if you know someone good in the community, we're going to be hiring
<seb128__> QA guy or desktop guy?
<mdz> seb128__: yes
<mdz> ;-)
<dholbach> mdz: thanks a lot... i'll keep an eye on our community people
<seb128__> :)
<seb128__> noted
<mdz> iwj: in my sweep, the overall bug quality has not been so bad really
<iwj> Maybe I'm just expecting too much.
<mdz> usually only one round of additional info
<infinity> (with notable exceptions)
<seb128__> most of the desktop bug are fine, maybe not on first try but people are responsive usually and willing to provide informations required
<mdz> I'm seeing relatively few support requests submitted as bug reports
<Keybuk> my main problem with bug reports, at least in the areas I touch, is the user mis-identifying the problem and having to stop them doing their quick fix so you can figure out what the real problem is
<Keybuk> is anybody going through the support requests?  jbailey I guess?
<Kamion> mine is related, it's users misidentifying problems as dupes
<mdz> Keybuk: dunno
<Seveas> mdz, myself, robitaille, carthik, kenny duffus and a few others are triaging a lot - About 10% of the bug reports is low quality afaict but 50% needs work
<iwj> The worst ones are the `firefox crashes' ones which are pretty much support requests and pretty much always turn out to be due to Flash (spit).
<mdz> Seveas: yes, thanks for the help
<Seveas> Keybuk, I am subscribed to all new support requests now, so are a few other community members 
<mdz> post-Dapper we'll do some work on bug reporting tools
<Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, I have that a lot too; users with more time jumping onto a bug report with theirs and making it almost impossible to get information out of the original submitter without misleading information about something that's really a different bug
<dholbach> "firefox crashes" = support request?
<mdz> so that we can get more information up front, automatically collected
<mdz> e.g., reportbug
<mdz> which would help with that class of bugs
<seb128> and automatic debug bt!
<seb128> :)
<mdz> mmmm
<mdz> ok, moving on
<mdz> thanks dholbach
<dholbach> de rien
<Kamion> dholbach: if it's related to some insane thing they installed into their firefox but forgot to mention, it can be, yes
<mdz> doko: next?
<doko> - openoffice.org: found and fixed the rosetta import failure (nearly all strings marked as translated), uploads pending db update, fixed packages for ia64, working on breezy backport packages, other fixes, started occassional trunk builds.
<doko> - long font discussions: switch of default fonts to metric compatible fonts objected by our gnome attorney, now proposed to introduce the Times/Helvetica aliases again (will change back to "ugly" fonts in firefox, Diziet is currently investigating). looks we cannot have both.
<doko> - printing bugs: coordinated with pitti, prepared new libusb, foomatic-db, hplip, all new upstream, still testing.
<iwj> dholbach: Yes.  I've got a form for telling people that now.  `Sorry, that should be a support request and anyway it'll be the fault of Flash'.  Only a bit longer.
<doko> - other: look at various python testsuite failures, together with `anthony, libffi update, prepared python2.5a1 packages for gustavo.
<mdz> pitti: speaking of which, what is the latest on rosetta import/export for dapper?
<mdz> doko: db update?
<pitti> mdz: details in my report, but it's working in principle now
<doko> ohh, and found out about another 1 year old package (no debian updates): graphviz
<doko> mdz: yes message strings
<mdz> ok, will discuss then
<pitti> mdz: rosetta only has about 30% of total translations, but these are good now
<iwj> fonts: We can have both if we can teach our fontconfig setup to distinguish between `I need a font with the same metrics as the one I asked for' and `I don't really care about the metrics'.
<mdz> doko: gnome attorney?
<doko> mdz: seb128, who else ;)
<seb128> and jdub :p
<mdz> jdub said he liked the idea, no?
<seb128> no
<seb128> Nimbus as default Sans alias will just make lot of desktop ugly on update
<doko> seb128: jdub agreed on the ML, but then disagreed on the channel
<iwj> Yesterday I concluded I'd have to add an <if ...> construct or something because you can't make aliases conditional.  I'll look at it with fresh eyes today.
<seb128> people will complain loud
<mdz> "Agree. Thanks for the summary."
<mdz> is what jdub said
<pitti> Nimbus--
<ogra> urgh
<ogra> Nimbus oon the *desktop* ??
<ogra> thats a print font ...
<seb128> maybe he didn't mesure that any people who ever played with the font capplet will got GNOME using Nimbus with that change
<seb128> since that's user setting and will not follow a schemas change
<doko> fontconfig doesn't differentiate between screen and printer
<mdz> hmm, ok, I need to look into the font issue more deeply and discuss on the list
<iwj> What doko said.  Very annoying and needs fixing.
<seb128> and we don't want GNOME UI using Nimbus, really
<ogra> doko, yes, thats why we decided to keep very in breezy
<ogra> *vera
<iwj> I agreed with doko that I'd look into it and post a plan to -devel.
<doko> mdz: seb128 said, that gnome only font changes will not take effect for existing users
<mdz> doko: what do our printing upstreams use for bug tracking?
<iwj> (Well, the printing/screen thing.)
<mdz> probably most of these are upstream issues and we should build a relationship there
<doko> mdz: sf resources, didn't look for cups
<iwj> gs is a mess because of the approximately three versions.
<mdz> from what I saw the last time I looked at it, we should standardize on gs-esp
<doko> iwj: is there still a reason to keep these? in the past gs-gpl wasn't the newest
<mdz> because we care about it primarily for printing
<iwj> gs-esp is sometimes quite a bit older than gs-gsp in core RIP stuff.
<iwj> For example in Breezy our gs-esp was nasty and crashy, really.
<mdz> -gpl you mean?
<iwj> No, -esp.
<Kamion> "gs-gsp"
<iwj> We had gs-esp 7.something and gs-gpl 8.something.
<iwj> I'm tempted to suggest using gs-gpl as distiller and then feeding to gs-esp for the cases where the gs-gpl drivers aren't so good.
<mdz> iwj: -gpl rather than -gsp I meant
<mdz> unless there is yet another ;-)
<Keybuk> if only we could fold it all into poppler :)
<iwj> Yes, gpl, not gsp.
<mdz> if only gs could sort itself out and be one upstream...
<mdz> anyway, thanks doko
<mdz> fabbione: next?
<iwj> The one upstream have that stupid licensing model.
<fabbione> * server-candy: Missing/buggy: apache2 for "central snakeoil SSL setup" and kernel -server as default from CD install. No other progresses.
<fabbione> * ubuntu-cluster: There will be no ocfs2-tools release. Done a lot for clvm and multipath-tools (from fixing kernel bugs, down
<fabbione> to rearrange parts of the cluster boot sequence). Missing one bug fix in multipath-tools (that i am aware of at least).
<fabbione> * last week: mainly cluster work, some X bug fixing and a bit of sparc love.
<fabbione> * next week: bug squashing (mainly X).
<mdz> fabbione: what's this about apache2?
<fabbione> mdz: pending on infinity's love, is to get ssl working out of the box
<mdz> is -server as default a non-trivial change?
<infinity> It's an upload I need to make to Debian, and his weekly meeting reminders serve to remind me for about 5 minutes before I forget again. :)
<fabbione> mdz: -server us on Kamion's court.. and it's not exactly trivial
<Kamion> mdz: not rocket science, but not trivial either
<Kamion> it's a bit messy in base-installer
<mdz> Kamion: can someone other than you do it?
<infinity> fabbione: Can you remind me about apache2 sometime this week that isn't "in the middle of the meeting"? :)
<fabbione> infinity: sure...
<infinity> (Though I was going to wait for 2.0.56 to release upstream, but that seems to be taking its sweet time)
<Kamion> mdz: maybe. I wrote all the surrounding code though :)
<mdz> fabbione: X needs serious love
<Kamion> it's bug 31474
<fabbione> mdz: yes we already discussed this.
<mdz> most of it looks upstreamish but there is a lot to forward
<Keybuk> ... did anyone else just do a half-second wait for Ubugtu there?
<mdz> who can give fabio a hand?
<ogra> i'm already digging on some ati vs radeon bugs
<mdz> heno: how are you with Malone?
<infinity> mdz: I'm triaging some X bugs here and there, but my workload is reasonably high enough that I can't dive headlong into it without ignoring other areas.
<Seveas> (Keybuk, bugsnarfer is disabled in here)
<ogra> and i'd like to jump in on dexconf 
<heno> mdz: I've been using it a bit
<heno> OOo bugs mainly :)
<infinity> ogra: If you can hack dexconf without (dear lord) making it any worse, more power to you.
<mdz> heno: I think there's a lot of good that could be done just by reading through the bugs and talking with fabio
<mdz> without diving deep into the technical side of things
<fabbione> ogra: do you plan some reasonable amount of work on dexconf or just to fix ati vs radeon?
<infinity> mdz: About 20 seconds after dapper releases, I would like to be able to set aside some company-sponsored time to sit down with David Nusinow and make sure our packaging and Debian's converge to a point where lots of these bugs can be part of a larger community problem.
<ogra> infinity, at least small things like making the mouse protocal preseedable again (i wont do intrusive stuff in dapper)
<doko> heno: I did see the reports :-)
<mdz> infinity: indeed
<heno> mdz: ok, so triaging X bugs, yep I'll have a look
<fabbione> heno: cool
<ogra> fabbione, i wanted to have dexconf working as good as it can without intrusive changes ... rewriting it for dapper+1 would be a future target
<mdz> eek, we're not doing very well on time
<mdz> fabbione: thanks
<ogra> err +2
<mdz> heno: anything to present for your part?
<infinity> mdz: David and i have a reasonably good relationship as it stands, so I'll just need the go-ahead to do so, and Etch and dapper+1 should look much more similar, X-wise.  I hope.
<heno>  * example-content DONE: Complete appart from a few screenshots in the documents and presentations that need updating
<heno>  * winfoss DONE: The layout has been given a complete overhaul for dapper, borrowing design elements from the desktop (icons and colours). A new version was uploaded on Monday. I consider it complete appart from fresh screenshots that will be needed once the Ubuntu desktop has settled. See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WinFOSS
<heno>  * winfoss TODO: Modify the new skin for kubuntu and coordinate app selection with Riddell
<heno>  * accessibility: I'm waiting for certain key packages to be seeded to the live CD so it can be tested
<Keybuk> heno: welcome aboard the team, btw
<mdz> infinity: seems completely appropriate
<heno> thx :)
<mdz> heno: who are you working with to get the seeding done?
<Kamion> mdz: Mithrandir
<heno> it was Tollef
<mdz> ok
<heno> but I take it he is away
<Kamion> yeah
<mdz> infinity: would you help heno with that in Tollef's stead?
<Kamion> he'll be back on Friday
<mdz> oh, friday as in tomorroW?
<mdz> hmm, yes
<Kamion> er
<infinity> mdz: Yeah.
<Kamion> Monday
<infinity> More likely Monday. :)
<mdz> monday
<infinity> Unless he works Friday night, "just cause".
<dholbach> do we have enough space for additionaly a11y stuff on the CDs?
<infinity> Either way.
<Kamion> dholbach: "not sure"; that's why they haven't just been added
<infinity> heno: I can help, if you need it.
<dholbach> (there's one bug report about accessibility-themes added to the CDs)
<mdz> dholbach: these are the questions we need to answer as part of the seeding process ;-)
<Kamion> Mithrandir was researching the size changes
<heno> It's not urgent. I just don't want it to fall between the cracks
<dholbach> :-)
<mdz> infinity: appreciated
<heno> infinity: thanks
<mdz> heno: thanks, and welcome again
<mdz> infinity: next?
<infinity> last week buildd: Same old, same old, tracking build failures.  Again, can I ask people to pretty please test before they upload?  Please?
<Kamion> and, if they don't all get seeded, working with the a11y guys to work out which are the highest priorities
<infinity> last week distro: Participate in the Flight-6 release, bugfixes and updates for LRM, MySQL, net-snmp, put on my jbailey hat and started triaging and local hacking on glibc and initramfs updates, transitioned to new libmysqlclient with different symbol versioning.
<infinity> next week buildd: Setting up livefs builds for Xubuntu, getting dapper-autotest underway, and tracking down more universe build failures.
<infinity> next week distro: Should be uploading glibc and initramfs, perhaps several times for the latter, as well as upstream version bumps for samba and subversion, and attacking more major bugs assigned to me over this last week.
<mdz> infinity: is there a spec in the launchpad pipeline for streamlining build failure->bug report?
<Keybuk> infinity: do you understand the glibc packaging?
<infinity> Keybuk: Intimately.
<infinity> mdz: Not one that I've written yet, I probably should.
<Keybuk> good, I  need to pick your brains then
<mdz> infinity: are you a bug contact for glibc now?
<infinity> mdz: I am.
<mdz> ok
<iwj> infinity: Lucky you :-).
<Keybuk> I can't work out how the hell to change the init script settings for nscd
<mdz> infinity: mysql transition is complete with your recent uploads?
<infinity> That's on my list of stuff to fix next week anyway.
<infinity> mdz: In theory, if none of it fails.  I'll follow that up tonight and tomorrow.
<mdz> ok
<mdz> thanks infinity
<mdz> iwj: next?
<iwj> Bugfixing: nice collection of bug reports to try to fix, working through them atm.
<iwj> Firefox: nice collection of bug reports to try to fix.
<iwj> Firefox: Still having lots of reports of unwanted back/forward due to horizontal scrolling.  I thought that was fixed with an x.org config change ?  Anyone know what I should tell these users ?
<iwj> Last week: was on holiday.
<iwj> AutomatedTesting,DeveloperDocumentation: no progress since I got back.
<iwj> It would be nice if pango/cairo weren't so dog slow, too.  I have a bug report which is an endless bitch-fest from people complaining that our ff is much slower than upstream.
<lifeless> iwj: FWIW I want to have a good look at the automated testing stuff once bzr is fully done for dapper
<mdz> I've been seeing a lot of unconfirmed/unanswered firefox bugs in my sweep going back a few months; did those not make it to you properly?
<iwj> I don't have time to answer unconfirmed ff bugs.
<iwj> I could do that but then I wouldn't be doing anything else.
<mdz> someone needs to respond to those reports; they shouldn't be ignored
<iwj> I answer them if they look like they could turn into a bugfix.
<mdz> most of the ones I saw seemed like they should just go upstream
<mdz> we certainly can't fix them all, but we should respond
<seb128> forwarding upstream is good
<doko> yes, an upstream status in malone would be nice (so you know that you did, which could be done)
<iwj> I could write a few more form letters: `please take this upstream' and `should be a support request' maybe.
<seb128> so there is a reply and upstream knows about them
<Keybuk> doko: add a bug watch
<mdz> iwj: if you can invest some time in a firefox bug triage howto, we can make it a bug day focus
<pitti> doko: open an upstream task
<fabbione> iwj: if they did customize their X config, there is nothing i can do
<fabbione> iwj: they will have to add the line manually
<seb128> pitti: upstream task should be used only for bugs forwarded
<fabbione> iwj: or ask them to reconfigure
<doko> Keybuk, pitti: yes, but the appear in your list of open reports again (unsorted)
<pitti> seb128: yes, that's what I mean
<mdz> iwj: that also helps to recruit people to help on an ongoing basis
<seb128> pitti: they will make possible to open a task only if you have a upstream bug to point
<seb128> k
<pitti> doko: true
<iwj> fabbione: Is there a standard answer that explains this or should I write one ?
<mdz> iwj: given some direction on how to help, we can send out a call for help
<iwj> fabbione: The bug is a bit full of discussion.
<mdz> seb128: upstream tasks without upstream bugs are still useful, e.g. if there is an upstream bug contact
<iwj> upstream tasks etc.> I asked the LP people and they wanted me to open an upstream task and set the Ubuntu task to rejected.
<fabbione> iwj: well no, there is no standard answer..
<iwj> But of course there's (in this case) no upstream bug contact or anything so that doesn't really work.
<mdz> iwj: that's fair, but only if upstream actually hears about the bug along the way
<Keybuk> I quite like to leave them as just Confirmed; that way I can still check in on them and see how upstream are doing with their ignoring of the bug
<Keybuk> same as Needs Info really, handy to be in the list so you can check whether the reporter has given the info you wanted yet
<mdz> I'm talking with LP folks about an email-based semi-automatic bug forwarding mechanism
<mdz> also in the long term pipeline is semi-automatic filing of upstream bugs in their bug trackers
<pitti> would be nice; click on 'create upstream bug', enter your upstream bz credentials, done (or so)
<iwj> Tread carefully.  It would be so easy to make ourselves very unpopular.
<mdz> but that has hairy issues to be resolved
<seb128> mdz: you can't edit an upstream task with current launchpad, and by discussing on #launchpad they said it should always have an upstream bug watched
<Keybuk> can you register new bugzillas yet?
<seb128> you can for ages now
<mvo> or new sf bugtrackers?
<seb128> I think sf works too
<dholbach> sf  bug trackers are problematic
<mdz> iwj: my proposal is more or less equivalent to what we already do manually, just making the legwork more automatic in terms of collecting info into an email and providing a space for the explanation
<Seveas> mvo, sf bugtrackers are impossible to integrate
<mdz> but that's a mailing list discussion
<seb128> dholbach: I though kiko made them work?
<mdz> Keybuk: yes, I've done several
<Seveas> you need magic numbers for them to work
<mdz> please do register new bug trackers as you go
<mdz> seb128: they "work" in that you can get bug links, but I don't think you get status info
<mdz> anyway, we're short on time
<iwj> mdz: mailing list discussion> Right.  Also it must be discussed with the upstream tracker's owners.
<mdz> thanks iwj
<mdz> Kamion: next?
<Keybuk> mdz: where?  I've not found that link
<Kamion> ubuntu-express-base-system: Network configuration done. Started working on propagating keyboard selection to the installed system.
<Kamion> ubuntu-express: Merged component packaging into espresso proper, which means that I will no longer be blocked on problems of the form "I don't want to create yet another binary package for this".
<Kamion> misc: Helped Tollef out with Flight 6. Fixed a couple of frequently-reported yaboot bugs and sorted out FAT/NTFS mount options, which were huge causes of annoyance for migrating users. Made all the uploads for updated Breezy CD images, though blocked on some archive issues. Set up Xubuntu CD images (apparently right first time).
<Kamion> next-week: Finish propagating keyboard selection to installed system. choose-mirror/apt-setup should be easy now that component packaging has been reorganised, so I'll do that next. Better hostname defaults. Fix reboot step. Chase up a few bits of work I've delegated. After that I think I'll be happy enough with Espresso's functional state for the Dapper beta release.
<mdz> Keybuk: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugtrackers/
<mdz> Keybuk: "register bug tracker"
<Keybuk> ah, I was trying to find it from the "+ Upstream" thingy
<mdz> Kamion: I have some handwritten notes from my last espresso run that I'd like to review with you tomorrow
<Seveas> (Kamion: xubuntu f-6 works like a charm indeed)
<Kamion> mdz: sure
<mdz> how did flight 6 go behind the scenes?
<ogra> pretty lengthy this time 
<mdz> is the process scaling to more people and reducing your workload?
<ogra> the preparation took longer than others i found
<Kamion> ogra: it only took longer because there was a necessary and protracted investigation of a single bug
<mdz> Kamion: do you feel that we're getting enough espresso testing?
<infinity> It actually would have been reasonably smooth, had it not been for mkisofs angering us.
<ogra> Kamion, ah, i wasnt around for two days, didnt get that 
<mdz> I haven't come across too many bug reports in my sweep
<Kamion> mdz: scaling> yes, seems to be working pretty well with the unholy trinity of Mithrandir, infinity, and me
<Kamion> mdz: I did relatively little this time round actually, I was mostly just being debian-cd code monkey
<mdz> infinity: are you up to speed on sync processing?
<infinity> mdz: No, since it was just announced that the tool works again.  I need to poke elmo about how it works.
<infinity> (Or even what it's called)
<Kamion> mdz: I'm getting plenty of reports of the things that affect everyone, and I'm keeping them fairly well-triaged for the most part. I'm not getting so much of the things that only affect certain classes of users (e.g. keyboard layouts, odd partition layouts, etc.) but that's to be expected
<Kamion> infinity: sync-source.py
<mdz> Kamion: ok, thanks
<infinity> Kamion: scrpits/ftpmaster?
<mdz> Keybuk: next?
<Keybuk> last week: bugs, siretart and I made wpasupplicant identical in Debian and Ubuntu and all fluffy and stuff
<Keybuk> next week: bugs, nm bug day planned, ftp lessons with Kamion
<Keybuk> n-m: latest problem is that because it's running on the Live CD it means you can't configure a static IP, or bring up ppp, etc. because NM reverts whatever you do
<Kamion> mdz: I think it's adequate testing for now. Any more and I'd be swamped with duplicates of the things that affect everyone.
<Kamion> infinity: yeah, or on lp_archive's $PATH
<mdz> Keybuk: any decent feedback from its presence on the live CD?
<mdz> Keybuk: I've no objection to dropping it
<Keybuk> mdz: yeah, mostly bad, sadly
<mdz> Keybuk: we're beyond hope of adding it to desktop, right?
<Keybuk> definitely beyond hope
<mdz> ok
<Kamion> Keybuk: dropping it from the live CD would also avoid a hairy espresso problem
<mdz> let's do it
<Keybuk> you can add it to desktop, but I'm sure as hell not being bug contact for it if you do that <g>
<mdz> Keybuk: thanks
<Kamion> because at present it removes network-manager from the installed system because it's a live-CD-only thing
* infinity goes to unpop the trunk.
<mdz> JaneW: mithrandir's update?
<Kamion> which confuses people who've managed to set up their networking with n-m
<Keybuk> I'm glad we tried it, but it's just not ready or mature enough yet
<JaneW> Mithrandir: misc: released flight-6, tested i2o support in the installer, bug triage, vacation
<JaneW> next week: more vacation, espresso hacking, bug triage
<JaneW> blocked on: nothing in particular
<JaneW> Not a very exciting update, but flight-6 took most of my time and energy last week. 
<pitti> Keybuk: so, is it still a thing for main then?
<mdz> Keybuk: if there isn't already a "here's how to install NM with g-a-i" doc in the wiki, please talk to the doc team about creating one
<Keybuk> pitti: I think we can at least "support" it
<Keybuk> mdz: there is I believe
<infinity> pitti: I'll move it from live to supporter in all seeds right now.
<Keybuk> I'll check with Corey
<mdz> since many people will want to try it even if it isn't ready for prime-time, we'll want to mention it in the beta announce
<pitti> infinity: maybe ship, but yes
<mdz> JaneW: thanks
<seb128> infinity: ship would be nice
<mdz> mvo: next?
<infinity> pitti: Fair.  ship it is.
<Keybuk> mvo: it's still in g-a-i, right?
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - bug triage/fixes 
<mvo> - dist-upgrader authentication sorted (thanks to Daniel Silverstone for his help), bugfixing in u-m
<mvo> - auto-dist-upgrade test setup runing on my test i386
<mvo> - gnome-app-install dekstop file updates, better runtime duplicates detection, fixing
<mvo> - update-manager dist-upgrade from dapper->dapper+1 planing, sabdfl suggested to just skip it 
<mvo> - update-manager breezy backport finished, waits for #36022
<mvo> - update-notifier fixes (and a bad upload), better debugging support for hook problems
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - more bugfixing/bug triage (still lacking behind)
<mvo> - hopefuly upload update-manager into breezy-updates
<mvo> - language-selector-qt missing langpack detection 
<mvo> Blocked:
<mvo> - python-vte moving to breezy-updates/main: #36022
<mvo> - sysadmin setup for the auto-dist-upgrade
<mvo> Keybuk: n-m? yes
<mdz> mvo: we need the upgrader in breezy for beta
<Kamion> mdz: blocked on launchpad bug as mvo says
<mdz> ah, you already commented on the bug
<mdz> I'll chase it with kiko also
<mvo> mdz: even if it python-vte is not in breezy-upates/main?
<mdz> mvo: I thought that was a prerequisite?
<mvo> mdz: yes, that is why I was asking :)
<mdz> mvo: any interesting results from the auto-dist-upgrade test?
<mvo> mdz: sabdfl suggested to just not offer dapper->dapper+1 upgrades by defualt
<mdz> mvo: s/suggested/requested/ for sabdfl btw ;-)
<mvo> haha
<mvo> right
* mvo needs to learn more about the subtle aspects of english
<mvo> mdz: nothing interessting on i386 from the auto-dist-upgrade tests, works very well currently
<mdz> but certainly we need to allow the user to explicitly request an upgrade and use our nice new tool
<mvo> yes, I think I'll just add a gconf-key or a commandline option (or both)
<mdz> can you send me an email with your proposed solution?
<mdz> ok
<mdz> mvo: thanks
<mvo> because we will have power-users who will want to upgrade
<mdz> ogra: next?
<mvo> thanks
<mdz> ogra: hello?   we'll come back to you
<mdz> pitti: next?
<ogra> * general: flight 6, more edubuntu-artwork work, bughunt (the "screensaver activates regardless of user input" seems fixed, someone who can reproduce the flickering is working on a patch (these were my two worst bugs))
<ogra> * next-week: more bughunt, edubuntu and ltsp documentation, waiting for some pre-final artwork from the design company for edubuntu-artwork to finish the package, do some tests to find out if separate langpacks for kdeedu probably solve the space problem on the edubuntu CD
<ogra> * additionally: due to some big bad changes in life, my GF and i will have to give up the house move to the other side of the country and have to solve a lot of additional stuff. so please bear with me the next time, my RL will get very very weird and dizzy for some months...
<ogra> err
<mdz> ah, there you are
<ogra> sorry 
<mdz> ogra: I just got the "screensaver activates regardless of user input" issue today, oddly enough on a desktop
<mdz> I thought it was suspend-related
<mdz> but later it went away
<ogra> it is g-p-m related
<ogra> is the system up to date with my tonights change  ?
<mdz> ogra: very sorry about the big badness
<ogra> g-s-s has a so called emergency lock thats set after suspend ...
<mdz> keep me informed of your plans and let me know if I can help
<mdz> thanks ogra
<ogra> mdz, it has some positive aspects (i can tell you not not a meeting)
<mdz> pitti: next?
<pitti> reducing-duplication: no progress since last week
<pitti> general stuff done this week:
<pitti>  * security updates
<pitti>  * bug triage and bug fixing
<pitti>  * started to attack the cups mess; 1.2rc1 doesn't work at all for us; if KDE gets ported RSN, I'll stick with our svn snapshot and merge upstream bug fixes; if not, I seriously consider reverting to 1.1.23 (discussion welcome)
<pitti>  * langpacks: built first test version with Rosetta data, get rosetta+buildd merging/import mostly automated now, automatically create statistics and daily report; rosetta is still missing about 2/3 of all translations (a huge part of that is KDE), but the exported ones look good now
<pitti> plan for next week:
<pitti>  * new langpacks for dapper (with Rosetta love)
<pitti>  * get cupsys into a better shape
<pitti>  * bugs, bugs, bugs
<mdz> pitti: care to look at gs with iwj under the heading of reducing-duplication?
<pitti> mdz: sure
* pitti adds to TODO list
<mdz> Riddell: I didn't receive an email about kdeprint, is one forthcoming?
<doko> pitti: ugh, should we coordinate with the debian printing team? they stabilize with the 1.1 release as well?
<mdz> pitti: are the missing translations due to that issue where many templates need to be manually approved?
<pitti> doko: kmuto and I work on the 1.2 branch mainly
<mdz> there's a debian printing team?
<pitti> mdz: no, KDE translations are shipped separately; carlos fixed the import AFAIUI, now it's a matter of backlog
<mdz> pitti: where are the statistics and daily report published?
<Riddell> mdz: he's said he'll think about how he can find the time and get back soon, I'll e-mail him again to press him on the issue
<pitti> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/rosetta-buildd-diff-report.txt, and daily spam to launchpad@
<mdz> Riddell: just let him know that it makes a difference in some time-critical decisions we need to make
<Riddell> mdz: yep
<mdz> I am very behind on launchpad@
<mdz> thanks pitti
<mdz> Riddell: next?
<Riddell> done: KDE Espresso, getting quite usable now
<Riddell> also: flight 6, bugfixes, e-mailing with Gael Duval, kubuntu-docs update, knetworkmanager testing
<highvoltage> 10:55 < mdz> thanks pitti
<Riddell> next week: KDE Espresso
<pitti> highvoltage: ?
<mdz> Riddell: I saw a lot of unconfirmed kde bugs in my sweep, any problems there?
<mdz> as elsewhere, I made explicit assignments where it looked like a bug had fallen through the cracks
<highvoltage> pitti: sorry, kid in the office who decided he wants to play with my laptop
<Riddell> mdz: lack of time mostly, espresso being the priority just now, I'll try and triage them soon
<mdz> there seems to be at least one person in the community helping triage kubuntu bugs
<mdz> but there is a large backlog
<mdz> maybe ask the community for help?
<mdz> Riddell: thanks
<Riddell> yes, bug days have brought in some good community help, I should make sure it's clear to them where they can help most
<mdz> seb128: next?
<seb128> This week: load of bug triage (bug mails backlog almost clean now), started really working at fixing some bugs, packaged gaim 2.0beta3 (package on people.ubuntu.com), did some bug fixing and package patching
<seb128> ...
<seb128> Next week: GNOME 2.14.1, will update wiki desktop TODO page with bugs and tasks that would be nice for contributors, keep catching up with coming bug mails and patching
<mdz> where is the wiki page?
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam
<mdz> perhaps we should collect all of the areas where we need help and make one big call to the community
<seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO
<dholbach> and ../TODO and ... :)
<seb128> we started it but it lacks content
<mdz> we've identified a few areas during this meeting
<seb128> bug catchup is done, I've tagged lot of stuff with dapper milestone
<Keybuk> oops
<mdz> Keybuk: we're almost done, but not quite ;-)
<seb128> now I can make lists for contributors, and start assigning
<Keybuk> I closed a couple of tabs, and x-chat jumped through them in random order
<mdz> seb128: sounds good
<mdz> seb128: thanks
<mdz> Kinnison: next?
<Kinnison> gnome-power-manager (PowerManagementInterface): Uploaded 2.14.0-0ubuntu1 after flight6 was done, continued reading CVS changelogs and diffs.
<Kinnison> launchpad: provided mvo with a way to test the signed dist-upgrader stuff. Worked out how to fix the d-i handling to support pockets. Wrote tests for uploader for from a while back.
<Kinnison> gparted: tried to work out why with the installer-mode patch the new gparted breaks. Not yet worked it out.
<Kinnison> otherwise: Solving bugs which mdz throws at me mostly. Many are difficult to reproduce. I have a reasonable amount of these on the go.
<Kinnison> publisher: Investigated where the time is taken in the publisher and wrote detailed report for kiko and mdz.
<Kinnison> lp-ongoing: Enhance the test set I added to exercise more of the uploader's decision paths. Merge the sign dist-upgrader stuff and the d-i pocket support. Possibly look at the publisher from a speedup PoV depending on priorities.
<Kinnison> distro-ongoing: gparted ui bug; continue squashing the set of random bugs. Review the bugs open on g-p-m, try to get enough for upstream to do g-p-m 2.14.1 for us. Again, I'll try and do some espresso UI stuff if I can.
<Kinnison> [end] 
<mdz> Kinnison: can you look into the lp bug blocking mvo?
<Kinnison> mvo: bug number?
<JaneW> sivang: ping?
<mdz> Kinnison: was in his update
<mdz> 35022
<mdz> 36022 even
<mdz> I'm hoping it's shallow
<Kamion> (the d-i pocket support is needed for updated breezy CD images BTW)
<Kinnison> mdz: Should be fairly shallow, sure
<Kinnison> Kamion: is that now a priority?
<Kamion> Kinnison: the critical bug about it was opened a couple of weeks ago, if that counts :P
<mdz> Kinnison: if you can provide some analysis I'm sure that would speed things
<mdz> is cprov back?
<Kinnison> I don't know when cprov is due back
<Kamion> Kinnison: I think mvo's stuff is higher-priority though
* Kinnison worked out what was needed for the d-i pocket support, and the change-override pocket support should be fairly shallow
<Kamion> Kinnison: (assuming that, if necessary, a change can be monkeyed when we need it)
<mdz> ok
<Kinnison> Kamion: ook
<mdz> we're out of time
<mdz> thanks Kinnison
<mdz> anything else, follow up via email
<mdz> good time-of-day, all
<ogra> thanks 
<mvo> thanks
<dholbach> thanks mdz :)
* infinity calls it a day, then.
<seb128> thank you mdz
<Keybuk> mdz: you need to change your e-mail address
<doko> thanks
<Keybuk> bogofilter thinks mdz is a very bad word
<JaneW> thanks all
<pitti> thanks all
* JaneW starts on report
<pitti> just a little announcement:
<pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/requestsync
<pitti> that will generate a bug report for a sync request
<pitti> with changelog and all that
<seb128> pitti: did you read the announce mail about syncs beeing back?
<pitti> I need to file about 30 bugs, and more in the future
<Kinnison> pitti: does it update the wiki etc?
<seb128> and you having to file launchpad bugs for that
<pitti> Kinnison: wiki?
<pitti> seb128: that's what that script does :)
<seb128> ups
<pitti> I was just too lazy to manually file 30 bugs
<seb128> I thought you were pointed to the "do a sync yourself" one :)
<pitti> I rather enjoy writing some python to do it for me
<pitti> seb128: no, not any more
<Kinnison> pitti: sorry, misread the mail
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/bomberclone/+bug/38364
<pitti> ^ example result
<Keybuk> "bomberclone"
<seb128> nice
<seb128> handy :)
<Seveas> "Terrorist Pitti"
* seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> $ requestsync bomberclone dapper
<pitti> ^ how to use it
<pitti> it asks for confirmation, don't worry
<pitti> so, enjoy
<Seveas> anyway, now that I had a brain infusion thanks to mdz, ubugtu will support sf trackers too 
<pitti> Keybuk: it was the next one on the sync list, and that one is alphabetical :)
<Keybuk> I'm so naming my next piece of software "suicidebomber"
* pitti will not mention now that he maintains clanbomber in Debian
<mdz> Seveas: hmm? how did I help?
<Seveas> mdz, by confirming that launchpad supports them so that there is a way to do it
<Seveas> that was sort-of an eye-opener :) 
<mdz> heh
<mdz> my pleasure
<mdz> unfortunately, every SF project needs to be added separately
<Seveas> yes, that's crap
<Seveas> but at least it's possible
<mvo> every sf project bugtracker will become a bit crowed
<mvo> it is already pretty big (the list)
<Seveas> there's no other way
<Seveas> you can't guess a bug url with only a bug number
<mdz> yeah, apparently they don't have globally unique bug numbers or something
<azeem> smart
<mdz> or if they do, you still need the project ID to construct a URL
<Seveas> the latter
<Seveas> you need project id and tracker id
<Kamion> I think they must have globally unique bug numbers, if nothing else because the bug numbers on a new project are so damn long
<Seveas> Showing off:
<Seveas>  gaim bug 1464606
<Seveas> narf
<azeem> vorfuehreffekt
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.bugtracker.bugsnarfer True
<Seveas>  gaim bug 1464606
<Ubugtu> Gaim bug 1464606 "Jabber typing notification is broken" [Pri: 5,Open]  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=235&atid=100235&func=detail&aid=1464606
<Seveas> insane url....
<Seveas> but anyway: sf tracking now works 
<Keybuk> Seveas: at least it doesn't have random +s in it
<Seveas> feel free to submit interesting bugtrackers
<Keybuk> /+tracker/
<Keybuk> :p
<Seveas> Keybuk, hehe
<Seveas> I should write a tinyurl wrapper around those insane sf urls
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Seveas> gaim bug 1464711
<Ubugtu> Gaim bug 1464711 "Large Buddy Icons make interface unusable" [Pri: 5,Open]  http://tinyurl.com/s87mb
<Seveas> no more insanely long urls 
<seb128> :)
<Kamion> Seveas: urgh, tinyurl is more annoying than the original for that
<Kamion> I like to be able to see where I'm actually going
<Kamion> hate URL obfuscators
<lifeless> me too
<lifeless> loath and fear
<Kamion> Seveas: something that redirected from sane URL syntax (e.g. /sourceforgebugs/projectname/bugnumber or something) to sf's syntax would be fine, but I don't think replacing them with an opaque string is useful
<Seveas> ok, so I either annoy you by using tinyurl or I annoy fabbione for using insanely long urls  the question is: who do I fear most? :) 
<lifeless> Seveas: kamion, definately
<ogra> Seveas, just implement tinyurl on your server and make it use Kamions preferred format ? :)
<Seveas> ogra, perhaps, but I only have long hostnames (ubugtu lives on bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl)
<Kamion> that's not a long hostname
<Kamion> myhostnameislongerthanyourhostname.mit.edu is a long hostname
<Seveas> hehe
<ogra> and it could probably move to tinyurl.ubuntu.com one day ;)
<Kamion> or was, when it existed
<Seveas> anyway - I'll ponder about it a bit
<Seveas> would bugbut.ubuntulinux.nl/sfbug.cgi?id=123213 work?
<Seveas> (and make you a happy camper again)
<ogra> bugbut.ubuntulinux.nl/sfbug.cgi?project=xyz&id=123213 ?
<Seveas> project is already in the bug description
<ogra> ah
<Seveas> gaim bug 1464711
<Ubugtu> Gaim bug 1464711 "Large Buddy Icons make interface unusable" [Pri: 5,Open]  http://tinyurl.com/s87mb
<ogra> fine then :)
<Seveas> ok - will implement a piece of sqlite glue 
<ogra> :)
<ogra> i know you love to write such stuff :)
<Seveas> hehe
<Kamion> Seveas: sfbug.cgi seems reasonable
<Kamion> thanks :)
<Seveas> In a previous life it would have been sfbug.php
<Seveas> but I grew up
<Kamion> I don't really like extensions in URLs at all, personally
<Kamion> they mean you have to break old URLs if you reimplement
<Seveas> me neither, but it's easier to setup a cgi script then a complete django thing
<Seveas> and somehow mod_rewrite hates me when I try to combine it with cgi
<Kamion> surely you don't need mod_rewrite
<Kamion> you just need to add a cgi-script handler for whatever you call it
<Kamion> apache isn't actually totally dependent on extensions, it just looks a bit like it sometimes :)
<Seveas> true, but I like extensions on my filesystem
<Seveas> *.cgi *.tmpl *.py - just identifies things a bit better
<Seveas> gaim bug 1464711
<Ubugtu> Gaim bug 1464711 "Large Buddy Icons make interface unusable" [Pri: 5,Open]  None
<Seveas> hmm
<Seveas> gaim bug 1464711
<Ubugtu> Gaim bug 1464711 "Large Buddy Icons make interface unusable" [Pri: 5,Open]  http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/sfbugs.cgi?id=1464711
<Seveas> Kamion, --^
<Seveas> (url's don't work yet)
<Kamion> looks much nicer, thanks
<Seveas> ok, urls now actually work
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-12
<poningru> arr
* poningru talks randomly
<JaneW> anyone here in the states?
<JaneW> esp near San Diego
<A4-tje> hello
<JaneW> hi, what are you looking for?
<JaneW> there's no meegting now, so you won;t find much activity here
<fabbione> JaneW: you scared him
<JaneW> heh
<JaneW> and there I was trying to be all nice and helpful...
<dholbach> you should have hugged him or something :)
* JaneW makes a note
<JaneW> dholbach: there's a lot you need to teach me
<JaneW> dholbach: but are you sure that wouldn't have scared him *more*
<dholbach> no, surely not - i'll teach you at the next conf :-p
<zakame> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-16
<kbrooks> !schedule EST
<kbrooks> !schedule EST
<kbrooks> Seveas: hpw do i get the schedule?
<Seveas> see bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/timezones.html
<kbrooks> !schedule Toronto
<Meyer> @schedule brazil/east
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Brazil/East: 11 Apr 17:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 09:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 11:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 11:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 18:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 09:00: Edubuntu
<kbrooks> @schedule Toronto
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: 11 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 10:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 17:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu
<kbrooks> there
<Lathiat> @schedule Australia/Perth
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Perth: 12 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 22:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 05:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu
<Lathiat> ooh, thats nifty
<Seveas> @schedule gmt-5
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT-5: 12 Apr 01:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 17:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 19:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 19:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 02:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 17:00: Edubuntu
<Seveas> works perfectly
<Meyer> :P
<Lathiat> yeh thats fantastic
<Lathiat> props to whoevers fault that is
<Lathiat> @schedule gmt+8
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT+8: 11 Apr 12:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 04:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 06:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 06:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 13:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 04:00: Edubuntu
<Seveas> hmm, still
<Seveas> + and - seems messed up
<robitaille> @schedule us/pacific
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Pacific: 11 Apr 13:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 07:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 07:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 14:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu
<Seveas> @schedule amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 11 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 16:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
<neuralis> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 11 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 10:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 17:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu
<fabbione> @schedule North_Pole
<fabbione> tsk
<fabbione> @schedule artic
<fabbione> @schedule arctic
<fabbione> it's there!
<Seveas> @schedule Arctic/Longyearbyen
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Arctic/Longyearbyen: 11 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 16:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
<sivang> fabbione: you in the arctic now?
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 11 Apr 23:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 17:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 17:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 00:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu
<fabbione> sivang: i won't tell you
<sivang> fabbione: heh :)
<neuralis> @schedule South_Pole
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Antarctica/South_Pole: 12 Apr 08:00: Technical Board | 13 Apr 00:00: Edubuntu | 13 Apr 02:00: Xubuntu | 14 Apr 02:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 09:00: Community Council | 20 Apr 00:00: Edubuntu
<neuralis> fabbione: there, just a bit off ;)
<fabbione> yeah only 180 degrees
<sivang> neuralis: on one of the polls as well? :)
<ajmitch> looks like the south pole is on NZ time :)
<mdz> good morning
<ogra> pretty empty agenda again
<Keybuk> it's not for another hour :)
<ogra> so you expect the agenda to grow ? :)
<Keybuk> it usually does a bit
<mdz> dholbach: did you get in touch with Cropalato?
<dholbach> mdz: cropalato was one of the motu applicants?
<dholbach> mdz: if so, i got in touch with everybody who signed up for ubuntu-{core-,}dev
<dholbach> and had no responses apart from those i told you about :/
<mdz> dholbach: yes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Keybuk> right, brb for coffee
<mdz> brh for meeting
<mdz> agenda is very lightweight, especially if lifeless doesn't turn up
<freeflying> mdz: hi
* sivang checks the agenda
<mdz> freeflying: hi
<mdz> mjg59 said that he would not be able to make it
<mdz> sabdfl doesn't seem to be around either, so just me and Keybuk tonight
<Keybuk> "the terrible twosome"
* sivang lols
<freeflying> mdz: I'm in ture of apply for dev 
<mdz> freeflying: pardon?
<freeflying> mdz: zpply for ubuntu-developer membership
<freeflying> s/zpply/apply
<mdz> freeflying: what is your launchpad username?  I don't see you on the list
<freeflying> mdz: zhengpeng-hou
<mdz> oh, you applied a long time ago apparently
<mdz> is this the first meeting you've been able to attend since January?
<Keybuk> mdz: uh, did someone move "Proposed Members"
* Keybuk doesn't see it
<mdz> Keybuk: there aren't any for core
<Keybuk> mdz: ah!
<mdz> it's there on ubuntu-dev
<freeflying> mdz: this is the second 
<mdz> hmm, I think you applied during the meeting where I wasn't here
<mdz> what was the outcome?
<Keybuk> mdz: we asked him to work more closely with the other scim maintainers and the other MOTU
<Keybuk> as well as increase his usage of Malone
<freeflying> mdz: was rejected one month ago , due to the low karma value
<Keybuk> s/rejected/deferred/
<Keybuk> but yes
<mdz> freeflying: is there still difficulty between you and minghua?
<freeflying> mdz: i don't think we have 
<mdz> dholbach: any feedback from MOTU about freeflying's involvement since?
<mvo> mdz: I worked with him on various CJK related issues (input methods, fonts) and he is very active 
<dholbach> mdz: i can't say I worked much with freeflying - I think he was more involved with mvo and the KDE guys
<mdz> mvo: have you sponsored packages or patches for him?
<mvo> I sponsored some of his patches
<mdz> freeflying: who have you been working with primarily?
<freeflying> mdz:  Riddell 
<mdz> Riddell: around?
<Riddell> hi
<mdz> Riddell: have you sponsored packages for freeflying? any feedback?
<Riddell> freeflying's packages have been getting steddily better and for scim-bridge which I think was the last I reviewed I just had to correct the English on the description
<mdz> freeflying: I must say that cooperation is very important in our teams; I'm concerned about the fact that there was such a heated conflict over scim in the past
<mvo> I sponsored the initial scim-bridge upload and was happy with the quality
<mdz> freeflying: if you were in the same position again, what might you do differently?
<freeflying> mdz: we had disagreement before on scim
<freeflying> mdz: but that don't mean I will not cooperate 
<sabdfl> ello there
<ogra> hey sabdfl 
<sabdfl> sorry to be late
<sabdfl> where are we?
* mvo waves to sabdfl
<sabdfl> hey michael
<ogra> sabdfl, first ubuntu-dev wannabe
<ogra> (freeflying)
<mdz> sabdfl: see paste in /msg
<mdz> freeflying: if you had such a disagreement today, what might you do differently?
<freeflying> mdz: now we haven't any disagreeement 
<freeflying> mdz: you know scim is in main now , and is the default for cjk users 
<sabdfl> freeflying: i saw some of the correspondence that flew around, and it struck me that you were very confrontational in your approach
<sabdfl> the other correspondent was bein cautious and reasonable
<sabdfl> i like your energy, and your willingness to learn and contribute
<mdz> freeflying: perhaps my question was unclear.  if you had a different disagreement, perhaps with someone else, would you handle the situation in the same way?  or would you do something differently?
<sabdfl> but i'm a bit concerned about your approach to dealing with folks who are more cautious or who see things differently
<freeflying> mdz: I'd talk with him 
<sabdfl> glad to hear Riddell and others are impressed with the improving quality of your work
<freeflying> sabdfl: thx
<mdz> Keybuk: his earlier deferral was in part based on your concerns; do you have any questions?
<Keybuk> I'm glad he's taken up my advice to work more with Launchpad and Malone, so I'm happy with his improvement there
<Keybuk> But I still don't think he's shown improvement in how he deals with others, especially minghua
<Keybuk> freeflying: have you spoken to minghua since the last meeting?  worked out your differences?
<freeflying> Keybuk: we have talked something about improve the support for scim
<mdz> freeflying: according to Launchpad, you've signed the code of conduct, however, I do not feel that your earlier exchange regarding scim honored the CoC
<mdz> freeflying: however, you have made substantial code contributions which we appreciate, and I would like to recognize your continued involvement
<sabdfl> freeflying: we don't want to beat up on you for a past approach which you've now gotten over
<sabdfl> i recognise that you're on a steep learning curve, and doing very well
<sabdfl> but this interpersonal approach is very, very important in ubuntu
<freeflying> sabdfl: I see , I just appreciate this , so Iinvolved in ubuntu community 
<sabdfl> ok
<Riddell> I didn't see much of the scim disagreement, but freeflying has always been very couteous and good to work with on #kubuntu-devel
<Keybuk> I think for me, he's shown enough of an improvement in his developer skills to join the ubuntu-dev team; and that by joining the team he'll improve his communication
<Keybuk> he's certainly shown great willingless to improve
<sabdfl> freeflying: do we have your commitment to think carefully before you flame someone with whom you disagree?
<mvo> I have a good working relationship with him too
* mvo didn't knew about the scim disagrement
<Riddell> seems he and others in the Chinese ubuntu community were quite upset about the fridge story that was posted today, but freeflying was very good at explaining his concerns
<sabdfl> mvo: it was more a disagreement on the maturity of the code, and as it happens, freeflying's approach of "lets just get it in" won the day
<sabdfl> fridge story?
<freeflying> sabdfl: I will not flame with any disagreement 
<sabdfl> freeflying: ok, then +1 from me, and a big thank you for your contributions so far!
<freeflying> sabdfl: I  think anything can be solved by commnuication
<freeflying> sabdfl: thanks
<Riddell> sabdfl: looks like it has been removed now
<sabdfl> hmm... sounds like i should know a bit about htat
<mdz> +1, but with a strong urging to remember the CoC and resolve disagreements amicably, avoiding personal conflict
<sabdfl> anyhow, keybuk? mdz?
<Keybuk> +1 from me
<freeflying> mdz: thanks , and I will
<mdz> freeflying: if you find yourself in a difficult position, feel free to peaceably escalate the issue to the tech board or community council; we're here to help
<freeflying> Keybuk: thanks
<freeflying> mdz: ya
<mdz> freeflying: welcome to the team
<mvo> congrats freeflying!
<ogra> congrats freeflying 
<freeflying> thansk  mvo  Riddell  sabdfl  mdz Keybuk 
<dholbach> congratulations freeflying
<freeflying> ogra: thanks
<freeflying> dholbach: thx
<mdz> is there anyone else here applying for ubuntu-dev?
<mdz> I pinged lifeless earlier, but he doesn't seem to be around
<sabdfl> freeflying: what's your launchpad nick?
<mdz> sabdfl: https://launchpad.net/people/zhengpeng-hou
<LaserJock> congrats freeflying 
<mdz> (I updated LP already)
<cbx33> congratulations freeflying 
<sabdfl> ah
<sabdfl> thanks mdz :-)
<mdz> not hearing from any other ubuntu-dev applicants, sladen has the first discussion item
<freeflying> cbx33: thx
<sabdfl> lifeless is hopefully fast asleep right now
<sabdfl> or writing tests
<mdz> sladen: after seeing the agenda item, I commented on the bug with my feelings on the matter
<Keybuk> sabdfl: I thought he did that in his sleep
<mdz> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/36838/+index
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 36838 in ubuntu-meta ubuntu-minimal "ubuntu-minimal/Server does not depend on acpi-support" [Normal,Rejected]  
<Keybuk> first up
<Keybuk> obvious problem
<Keybuk> even if we wanted to, we can't change ubuntu-minimal right now
<Keybuk> unless kamion has overcome that bug
<mdz> we shouldn't change it at this point in the release cycle anyway, but we can answer the question of what it is meant to be
<Keybuk> why doesn't ubuntu-minimal provide acpi-support?
<Keybuk> seems logical to me for that to be there
<mdz> we do say that minimal is meant to provide hardware support, but I see power management as a special case
<mdz> especially in the context of servers
<Keybuk> true, most servers don't tend to need hibernation
<mdz> and they usually don't want powernowd or the like etiher
<sabdfl> do they not cycle down into "slow and power saving" mode?
<mdz> and they definitely don't want to automatically power down
<Keybuk> mdz: unless the power goes out?
<sabdfl> i thought heat generation was the #1 issue in data centers right now?
<sabdfl> do Xeon's support speed steppings?
<mdz> sabdfl: I think the #1 issue continues to be $ per unit of work done
<elmo> mdz: not really
<sabdfl> mdz: where some not insignificant chunk of $ goes to air conditioning
<elmo> sabdfl is right
<sabdfl> QUOTES PAGE
<elmo> most vendors are incorporating speedstep stuff into their server line
<elmo> precisely because of heat/power issues
<sivang> sabdfl: IBM's pServers do that :)
<sivang> (move into low workload state with less power consumption and low heat)
<mdz> elmo: my point is that that is only one part of the larger equation
<mdz> and fwiw, acpi-support has nothing to do with frequency scaling afaik
<sabdfl> that's powernowd etc.
<sabdfl> do we install the frequency scaling stuff in desktops by default?
<mdz> it's mostly infrastructure for suspend and hibernate
<mdz> sabdfl: yes, since warty or so
<sabdfl> and is it a low-level, daemon like thing that could also go on ubuntu server?
<mdz> yes
<sabdfl> can it cause problems with hardware that doesn't implement specs correctly?
<mdz> I believe all of its dependencies are already in -minimal
<mdz> unknown
<mdz> note that it's near impossible to exclude packages from it
<mdz> if the package does trigger a problem, the user is in trouble
<mdz> but I don't know of any such issues with cpufreq
<sabdfl> too late for us to get meaningful feedback pre-dapper
<mdz> agreed
<sladen> mdz: ta.  yup, I closed it after that
<mdz> on the larger question of which bits of power management infrastructure might be appropriate for servers, I think we should revisit that post-Dapper
<mdz> and I think it would mean an ubuntu-server metapackage rather than expanding -minimal
<ogra> ++
<cbx33> sounds like a good idea to me
<mdz> sladen: you're satisfied with the specific answer to your question, though, right?
<sladen> mdz: yeah.  I rather have somebody else decide the policy :)
<mdz> I've added the server power management question to my post-dapper list
<mdz> next agenda item is from janimo
<janimo> there are a handful of packages I'd very much like to get into xubuntu. They are gtk-only builds of regular gnome apps. But the gtk only support is either not (yet) upstream, or not taken advantage of in debian packaging
<janimo> having them separately packaged conflicts with ReducingDuplication
<mdz> janimo: is it possible to merge your changes into the existing packages, so that they build an alternative set of binaries?
<mdz> so one source package, 2xN binary packages
<janimo> mdz, yes that would be ideal
<mdz> reducing-duplication is only concerned with source
<janimo> but since most (all?) of thsoe use CDBS
<janimo> packaging either needs to be very much tweaked
<janimo> or cdbs1 hacked into supporting multibuild
<janimo> the former need agreement of respective mainatiners
<janimo> the latter I am not sure how feasible it is
<mdz> have you talked with the desktop team about this?  they know cdbs quite well
<janimo> mdz, have not yet.
* sladen had a similar issue when wanting to build -i386-win32 binaries for qemu.  ideally those would be in the archive too, but I guess the important thing is just argumenting the source-package to always produce two binary packages.
<mdz> perhaps they will have some ideas about how it can be done non-intrusively
<janimo> ok I'll talk to them
<mdz> but understand that we are very much in feature freeze now
<mdz> and if these changes are to receive an exception, they will need to be done with minimal interference with the existing, working packages
<janimo> mdz, sure. But packaging changes while ugly , should not affect the outcome of the gnome packages at all
<sabdfl> janimo: good work on xubuntu btw
<janimo> sabdfl: thanks
<sabdfl> i have it running on a machine here, and am testing it on low-end hardware
<sabdfl> very impressive
<sabdfl> very clean, very fast
<janimo> sabdfl: great, if you have any suggestions, -> malone :)
<mdz> janimo: which applications do you want to do this with?  do you have a list?
<janimo> evince, gnome-system-tools, gnumeric, cups-manager
<sabdfl> janimo: and -> blueprint ;-)
<mdz> gnome-system-tools without gnome? ;-)
<janimo> gnumeric maintainer said he's accept patches in debian, but is slow to respond
<janimo> mdz, you'd be surprised to see how little gnome code is in there
* sivang seconds janimo 
<janimo> nautilus share and a few gconf bits
<ogra> yeah, they originally were the ximian-system-tools
<janimo> I actually have xubuntu-system-tools in universe now
<sabdfl> janimo: if you're willing to handle merges from debian, go ahead and update the ubuntu package
<mdz> janimo: do you have a patch for gnumeric?  I don't think it uses cdbs
<janimo> works the same as the original
<janimo> mdz, gnumeric actually has --disable-gnome in upstream
<janimo> as it runs on win
<janimo> and we (Gauvain Pocentek an dmyself) have worked on the pacthes for gnimeric and libgoffice
<mdz> janimo: but in debian and ubuntu, it's built for gnome
<janimo> right
<janimo> but we have pacthes to buold both of them
<janimo> and yes this is debhelper so it's closer to the goal
<mdz> perhaps the ideal solution would be to maintain a xubuntu branch of those packages with different packaging, but we don't yet have the infrastructure to support that
<mdz> janimo: as sabdfl said, we can certainly trial the patches in Ubuntu if the risk is minimal (build failures are very disruptive close to release, though)
<janimo> mdz, sure. I just want to know (preferably from each maintainer) which way to go
<seb128> please don't fork totally the packaging away from Debian
<janimo> convert to debhelper?
<seb128> that's going to mean extra work to merge, etc
<seb128> like cdbs to debhelper
<janimo> seb128: you are involved with most of these packages I think
<mdz> seb128: agreed
<janimo> what do you prefer
<seb128> yeah, and as already discussed I'm not happy to fork the packages like that
<janimo> I put this on agenda to find a way we are all happy with
<seb128> if we switch from cdbs to debhelper the package is totally different from the Debian one and it means extra work for dholbach and me updating them, syncing with Debian, etc
<janimo> seb128, could be a temporary switch fro dapper, hoping for dapper+1 either cdbs improves or something else saves us
<seb128> grumpf
<janimo> either way I said I'd help maintain all packages I'd have to tweak
<mdz> janimo: it's especially important late in the release cycle that we stay agile
<ogra> thats a bad idea for a 3 year support cycle
<mdz> so that if we need last-minute fixes we can merge them quickly
<janimo> I am comfortable with any solution you propose as long as these packages can go into default xubnutu
<seb128> I'm not happy to redo totally those package to use debhelper now
<seb128> one week before dapper beta
<mdz> it's truly not a good time to add something like this to dapper
<janimo> seb128: I don't like debhelper much either
<mdz> we can consider an exception, but only if it can be done very simply and safely
<janimo> I;ll continue looking into cdbs multibuild then
<mdz> which in the cdbs case,  it sounds like it cannot
<sabdfl> agreed, refactoring the packages totally now is not worth it
<janimo> Kamion proposed a workaround will have to try it.
<mdz> what was his proposal?
<janimo> not sure about the details, have to look it up
<janimo> said it on irc
<mdz> ok, I'm happy to review it via email
<janimo> something using a rules file which calls existing one and a new one
<janimo> so debhelper is not an option for packages using cdbs right?
<janimo> I am ok with that
<mdz> janimo: I don't think that would be best
<mdz> janimo: unfortunately we don't have a perfect solution at this point, but we can continue to discuss alternatives
<janimo> if we cannot get clean packaging to do this, how bad is having different source packages
<ogra> and it would likely upset debian maintainers again#
<ogra> twice the work if you have a security patch 
<mdz> janimo: sorry we don't have a magic bullet to offer, but are you satisfied enough with the discussion to take the remainder to email?
<janimo> sure
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> is there any other business?
<janimo> ubuntu-devel ?
<mdz> janimo: sure, but CC me or bring it to my attention or I may not see it there
<mdz> ubuntu-devel is very noisy these days
<janimo> ok
<mdz> last call for other business
<mdz> ok, adjourned
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<Keybuk> whew, just under an hour
<Keybuk> we're getting good at this
<mdz> Keybuk: you should have seen the last one
<sabdfl> thanks!
<Seveas> mdz, that one was ridicuous 
<Howdy125> I can report a problem if you guys are bored .. 
<Keybuk> how long was it?
<Seveas> about a minute
<sivang> not long
<sivang> :)
<Seveas> there was NO agenda 
<sivang> indeed
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-09
<Express> join:debian-fr
<shawarma> @schedule Copenhagen
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 10 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 22:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 22:00: Development Team | 12 Apr 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 22:00: Forum Council
<gnomefreak> why 2 devel meetings?
<gnomefreak> are they different?
<ajmitch> no, the time was probably changed
<Mithrandir> probably because the fridge is confused.
<Mithrandir> they're at 2200 CEST
<gnomefreak> ever since time change devel meetings have been weird on times
<Mithrandir> time zones are hard
<gnomefreak> agreed
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-10
<zul_> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 10 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Apr 16:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 16:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 16:00: Development Team | 12 Apr 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 16:00: Forum Council
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: Development Team | 12 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 20:00 UTC: Forum Council
<Keybuk> evening campers
* Keybuk pushes the red button on the mdz-phone
<Keybuk> bet you he's at Pizza Express ;)
<Keybuk> I swear that having such a restaurant in the foot of our new office building is going to cause serious diet problems
* mjg59_ is in the pub
<Keybuk> mjg59_: good man, very sensible
<Keybuk> it's a short agenda today anyway
<Keybuk> so let's get going
<mjg59_> Ok
<Keybuk> has anybody applied for ubuntu-core-dev maintainership?
<mjg59_> One potential proposed core-dev member, I think?
<mjg59_> But he's been on the list for a while
<mjg59_> And not in ubuntu-dev, so I think we can pass
* Keybuk declines
<mjg59_> Ok.
<mjg59_> Any MOTU candidates to go over this week?
<Keybuk> ok, other question; is there anybody from core-dev who's about to expire -- now would be a good time? :p
<Keybuk> mdz: hey, we're just going down the maintainer list
<mdz> howdy
* Keybuk doesn't see anyone from MOTU
<Keybuk> is a member of the MOTU Council here?
<gpocentek> yep
<gpocentek> good evening
<Burgundavia> Keybuk: bdebian said something about him expiring
<Keybuk> gpocentek: do you have anybody needing approval?
<gpocentek> Keybuk: no
<Keybuk> Burgundavia: bddebian was fixed, no?
<mjg59_> I though bddebian had been re-added
<Burgundavia> Keybuk: just making certain it was
<Keybuk> (it's normal to expire from ubuntu-dev now, motu is the important group)
<crimsun> hello
<mjg59_> Yes, bddebian is in motu
<mjg59_> So I think that's ok
<gpocentek> hello crimsun
<mdz> that was checked when we made the change; everyone in ubuntu-dev was also in motu
<Keybuk> ok, no sabdfl so we have to pass over technical board nominations
<mdz> I need to remind him about that
<Keybuk> :-)
<Keybuk> mdz: could we have a release name first? :p
<mdz> Keybuk: that's all but done
<Keybuk> I have one item of other business I'd like to raise
<Keybuk> meeting time: since we're all in Europe/London now, would it be useful to adjust the meeting times to suit a little better?
<Keybuk> (especially since applicants no longer need to turn up)
<mjg59_> Evening is actually fairly convenient for me, though I understand it's less so for the rest of you
<Keybuk> I wasn't thinking of moving too much, just adjusting for UTC really
<mjg59_> Ok. WFM.
<Keybuk> put it at 1900 UTC (2000 local)
<Keybuk> mdz: what do you think?
<Keybuk> do you have net access at home?
<Keybuk> ok, I guess we'll continue that discussion on the mailing list
<Keybuk> adjourned for now
<mjg59_> Ok
<Keybuk> thanks
<mjg59_> Bye
<mdz> Keybuk: sorry, network problems
<Keybuk> heh
<mdz> I purportedly have wireless, but it doesn't reach to the places where I need it
<Keybuk> I hope that these are not the kind of places where sabdfl traditionally uses wireless? :p
<mdz> Keybuk: no
<mdz> at, e.g., my desk
<mdz> if I walk close to the AP, I can associate, then come back to the desk, and it stays connected...sometimes
<Keybuk> I've stayed in hotels a bit like that
<mdz> but I can never associate from my room
<mdz> Keybuk: +1 on changing the meeting time
<Keybuk> mdz: to 1900, or a different time?
<mdz> either
<mdz> earlier is better for me these days
<mdz> intermittent network at home
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-11
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: Development Team | 12 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 20:00 UTC: Forum Council | 17 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<LongPointyStick> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 12 Apr 06:00: Edubuntu | 13 Apr 06:00: MOTU | 13 Apr 06:00: Development Team | 13 Apr 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Apr 06:00: Forum Council | 18 Apr 01:00: Kernel Team
<ajmitch> sigh, MOTU meeting
<ogra> ah, come on, you still have two days to prepare for it :P
<ajmitch> ogra: yeah but it's at 8AM :)
<highvoltage> @schudule
<highvoltage> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 11 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 20:00: Development Team | 12 Apr 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 20:00: Forum Council | 17 Apr 15:00: Kernel Team
<poningru> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 11 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 20:00: Development Team | 12 Apr 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 20:00: Forum Council | 17 Apr 15:00: Kernel Team
<xiaochuan> Hi In the X-window of SHELL: type the command xhost + local:root
<xiaochuan> non-network local connections being added to access control list
<ScottK> xiaochuan: What version of Ubuntu are you running?
<xiaochuan> but in the CTRL+ALT+F1 : it return msg: unable to open disply ""    why??? help.
<xiaochuan> ScottK: ubuntn 6.06
<ScottK> xiaochuan: This is not a help channel.  See #ubuntu for help.
<xiaochuan> :(~~ okay
<juliux> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 11 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 20:00: Development Team | 12 Apr 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 20:00: Forum Council | 17 Apr 15:00: Kernel Team
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 11 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 22:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 22:00: Development Team | 12 Apr 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 22:00: Forum Council | 17 Apr 17:00: Kernel Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: Development Team | 12 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 20:00 UTC: Forum Council | 17 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<pygi> after a long time, hello folks =)
<willvdl> pygi, hey
<highvoltage> pygi: hi mr SoC
<pygi> ergh!
* highvoltage ducks
* pygi burns highvoltage's toe
<highvoltage> ouch, something just felt like a libburn
<pygi> highvoltage, you do understand you are evil, right ;P
<highvoltage> pygi: all too well. mhuhahahhahaha.
<willvdl> Hi folks, shall we get started?
<highvoltage> hi willvdl, RichEd and LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi
<LaserJock> no ogra?
<willvdl> Hey
<willvdl> haven't seen him
<RichEd> helllo highvoltage ... willvdl will chair tonight & i will be a fly on the wall
* RichEd is falling asleep
<highvoltage> cool, I'm also doing some other work (have a very early deadline tomorrow morning)
<willvdl> Well let's kick off anyhoo?
<willvdl> == Technical ==
<stgraber> (Ogra is in #ubuntu-devel but busy with testing the isos I guess)
<willvdl> ah.
<LaserJock> well, I guess we need .iso testing
<willvdl> Who here is busy testing?
* LaserJock looks around
<willvdl> meaning, not at this very minute :)
<willvdl> alrighty, shall we move down the list to Docs?
<pygi> sure =)
<willvdl> I'm a bit out of touch over the last month
<willvdl> LaserJock, anything specific to mention?
<LaserJock> ok, well couple things
<LaserJock> 1 SoC apps are almost done being evaluated
<willvdl> SoC?
<LaserJock> Google Summer of Code
<willvdl> ah
<LaserJock> lots of Edubuntu related applications
<LaserJock> hopefully we'll get a few
<ajmitch> morning
<LaserJock> 2nd thing, Edubuntu doc package
<willvdl> hey
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<LaserJock> edubuntu-docs is pretty much final for Feisty
<willvdl> sweet
<LaserJock> we added an About Edubuntu menu item in the System menu
<highvoltage> the edubuntu universe is eternally grateful for that
<LaserJock> we got the Handbook cleared up a bit
<LaserJock> sbalneav rocked the house
<willvdl> woot
<LaserJock> we added TCM and 2nd CD material
<pygi> pardon me, may I interrupt with something?
<LaserJock> I also got translation templates set up
<willvdl> pygi, shoot?
<LaserJock> pygi: go for it
<pygi> from last SoC we've got couple of nice things which we never got around to packaging
<juliux> hi all
<pygi> I think we should set some goal for feisty+1 to get those packages
<willvdl> pygi, such as?
<LaserJock> pygi: we need sources
<pygi> LaserJock, willvdl : the quiz thingy from ryan
<LaserJock> I asked about that a while back ago and nobody knew where the source was
<pygi> LaserJock, they do exist
<pygi> LaserJock, I know
<pygi> we'll talk about those later then
<willvdl> LaserJock, 2nd CD: should I look up in Launchpad for details?
<LaserJock> the addon cd
<LaserJock> btw, translations for edubuntu docs is at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/edubuntu-docs/+translations
<willvdl> excellent
<willvdl> seems I got some serious catching up to do
<LaserJock> also some other good news, sbalneav just got svn access to the Doc team repo
<willvdl> sweet
<willvdl> other than cbx33, who else has access?
* pygi also thinks he should work on getting access since he worked on the book =)
<pygi> LaserJock, I need to prove to you I can write docbook, right ? :P
<LaserJock> willvdl: actually cbx33 doesn't. it's just nixternal, sbalneav and myself
<LaserJock> and also jsgontanco
<willvdl> LaserJock, I thought Pete had for ESA?
<LaserJock> I don't think so
<LaserJock> he just sent me patches
<willvdl> oh. anyhoo, how did his book chapter go?
<LaserJock> not sure, fine I guess
<willvdl> pygi, want to move back to SoC questions?
<pygi> willvdl, like what? :)
<pygi> I was accepted this year for SoC as a student, but my tasks are not connected to edubuntu in particular
<pygi> however as I was mentor last year, I can help and will gladly do so to manage edubuntu students
<willvdl> pygi, just looking back..something about sources?
<pygi> willvdl, ah, yes, the source's for ryan's work are on sourceforge
<willvdl> pygi, that reminds me, want to ask you something afterwards...
<willvdl> alrighty, who's here from Artwork?
<pygi> willvdl, ofcourse, whatever you need
<willvdl> hmm, seems we are attendance challenged tonight :)
<LaserJock> pygi: can you perhaps make an Edubuntu SoC page where we list projects and links to sources?
<pygi> LaserJock, for this year?
<pygi> LaserJock, TBH not needed. Google has requirements to post all projects sources to google hosting
<willvdl> maybe still link via LP or something
<pygi> from last year, it was Amaranth with willow-ng and ryan with his quiz thingy
<pygi> willvdl, well, last year I wanted my mentors to write a official spec in LP and open a product
<pygi> this year you should do the same IMHO
<willvdl> well, at the least we can get something going on the wiki as LaserJock suggests
* highvoltage downs an energy drink
<willvdl> next on the list is Websites
<willvdl> I see the Ubuntu site was upgraded while I was gone
<RichEd> yep ... matt nuzum's work
<highvoltage> yep. RichEd said last week that themes are being designed for the Edubuntu website too, sot htat the sites look consistent.
<RichEd> to fill you in, he is producing a drupal template for other variants
<RichEd> highvoltage: yes.
<willvdl> cool
<highvoltage> RichEd: will the education website still take place?
* highvoltage has been out of touch with the education website progress
<willvdl> Will need to look again at what goes on web and what goes on wiki
<RichEd> highvoltage: yes, needing more time to get around to it :(
<highvoltage> ah
<highvoltage> time is a scarce resource
<willvdl> highvoltage, only if you sleep
<highvoltage> willvdl: I'll sleep when I'm dead ;)
<willvdl> alrighty, coming up to "Community"
<willvdl> Who's coming to UES?
* willvdl me
* RichEd me
<highvoltage> willvdl: can we have a session to brainstorm on expanding the edubuntu community?
<LaserJock> I'm coming!
<RichEd> highvoltage: we will have one at UES ... chaired by jono
<willvdl> highvoltage, sure. you mean at UES or IRC?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: right channel? :p
<willvdl> :)
<highvoltage> willvdl: preferably UES, but either way.
* LaserJock slaps highvoltage 
<highvoltage> kinky.
<willvdl> my eyes
* highvoltage moves away before LaserJock slaps him again
<LaserJock> my goodness
<LaserJock> I just can't say anything today
<highvoltage> I should actually be careful what I say, we might just end up in a room together again :)
<LaserJock> it's like 4th grade all over again
<highvoltage> LaserJock: some of us have trouble moving on :)
<highvoltage> are we hijacking the meeting?
<highvoltage> back to community then :)
<willvdl> I'm too shocked to type
<highvoltage> willvdl: you? shocked?! I didn't realise we were /that/ bad ;)
<willvdl> no, I actually physically shocked myself. don't ask
<highvoltage> did you touch my nick?
<LaserJock> *now* who's being kinky? ;-p
<willvdl> highvoltage, you want a community session before UES?
<highvoltage> willvdl: perhaps a preliminary one before it, possibly even during one of our usual IRC meetings (with warning on the mailing lists)
<willvdl> cool. good idea
<highvoltage> willvdl: and then we have a face-to-face meeting in UES and bash out some ideas based on previous discussions
<RichEd> highvoltage: do you want to start a wiki page ?
<RichEd> and i can add it to the discussions for UES
<highvoltage> RichEd: yes, that sounds like a good idea
<willvdl> okie, lets pop something on the list and chat in one of the meetings
<highvoltage> ok
<willvdl> I think the 8pm UTC meetings are easier for most to attend?
* highvoltage didn't know there were 8pm UTC meetings
<willvdl> but then only really two opportunities left so maybe enxt week
<willvdl> highvoltage, this is one
<RichEd> we have more attendance at the midday ones lately
<highvoltage> willvdl: ah ok
<willvdl> moving on: Mngmt & Planning?
<RichEd> willvdl: just UES from my side ... let me get the launchpad page ... brb
<willvdl> cool
<RichEd> https://launchpad.net/sprints/ues-sevilla-2007
* willvdl looks
<RichEd> create & add meetings here ... and make a wiki page link for comments / input
<willvdl> are these official scheduled meetings for the UES programme?
<RichEd> those are the list of potential BOFs yes
<RichEd> we may add / remove / refine ... but that is the start
<willvdl> ah. gotcha
<RichEd> also presentations from a lot of people ... am adding to the UES wiki page tomorrow morning
<willvdl> can they link to UDS BoFs as things progress? Haven't played with the LP meeting functionality yet
<RichEd> not sure ... will find out :)
<willvdl> no biggy
<willvdl> "Any other Matters Arising"?
* RichEd is done
<willvdl> Shall we wrap this up on the hour?
<RichEd> fine with me
* willvdl notices there is a new "Scribes" team for meeting logging and minutes generating
<willvdl> going to take a little research
<RichEd> where did you see that willvdl
* ajmitch wishes he could get to UES
<willvdl> RichEd, looking again
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingLogs
<juliux> ajmitch, +1
<highvoltage> ajmitch: at least you'll be at UDS :)
<ajmitch> highvoltage: yeah, thankfully
<highvoltage> ajmitch: btw, I think I know your #1 fan ;)
<ajmitch> highvoltage: I have fans?
<ajmitch> news to me
<LaserJock> I can believe it
<ajmitch> let's take this elsewhere ;)
<highvoltage> :)
<willvdl> highvoltage, is it you?
<highvoltage> willvdl: someone who works with me
<highvoltage> can't stop talking about ajmitch and things that he learns from him.
* highvoltage is even a bit jealous :p
<ajmitch> hah
<willvdl> ===== </Edubuntu Meeting> =====
<willvdl> highvoltage, just work harder then
<highvoltage> willvdl: that's the plan
<willvdl> alrighty, I'm heading back to #ed
<RichEd> thanks all ...
<highvoltage> goodnight RichEd
<RichEd> you 2 highvoltage
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-12
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: Development Team | 12 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 20:00 UTC: Forum Council | 17 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 20:00 UTC: Community Council
<pitti> hi
<fabbione> yo
<BlueT_> :)
<dholbach> hiya
<mdz_> it seems that about half the keyboard shortcuts in xchat close the application or a tab
<seb128> mdz_: use the other half then :p
* seb128 runs
<mdz> cjwatson,Keybuk: is everyone here who's expected?
<heno> here
<Riddell> hi
<asac> i am here ... in case i am expected ;)
<kwwii> hi
<iwj> Hello everyone ...
<mvo> hello
<doko> seems to be a slow start today =)
<cjwatson> BenC said he wanted to be here, but he may have keeled over with exhaustion
<Keybuk> mdz: yes
<fabbione> it's also 3/4am there
<cjwatson> everyone else is here
<cjwatson> fabbione: he was aware of that
<mdz> fabbione: 5, but wasn't expecting him at this meeting
<pitti> I saw him an hour ago
<mdz> BenC: good morning
<fabbione> here he is
<cjwatson> 00:47 <BenC> would this meeting be opportune time to discuss the kernel upload?
<cjwatson> 00:47 <cjwatson> I certainly won't hold it against you if you aren't there, as long as I have all the information needed to represent kernel interests
<cjwatson> 00:47 <cjwatson> yes
<cjwatson> 00:47 <BenC> then I'll make it
<cjwatson> aha
<BenC> good morning
<mdz> so, welcome everyone.  thanks for being available even though this was a bit last-minute
<mdz> the release is creeping up on us, and I think we're a little bit behind where we ought to be right now, so it seemed wise to get everyone together to go over the outstanding issues
<mdz> Keybuk and Mithrandir have been reviewing our progress
<mdz> Keybuk: would you give an overview of where we stand?
<Keybuk> Current status is that the release candidate images prepared yesterday had several problems with them
<Keybuk> notably things like the "About Ubuntu" menu option being missing
<pitti> #105593 :(
<Keybuk> and /etc/lsb, /etc/issue, etc. all being wrong
<pitti> ^ is the worst one I found
<seb128> about ubuntu, launchpad integration have been fixed yesterday
<seb128> bug #105593
<Mithrandir> seb128: and accepted into the archive this morning.
<Keybuk> we also haven't performed several of the steps leading to the candidate, including hardware certification testing
<seb128> Mithrandir: rock on
<Keybuk> fabbione: I believe you've got that started now?
<mdz> (incidentally, is anyone else having trouble with firefox stalling for a very long time at "Connecting to launchpad.net..."?)
<ubotu> Malone bug 105593 in restricted-manager "claims that nvidia is in use on live system" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105593
<fabbione> Keybuk: yes already started. we got only one bug so far
<Keybuk> mdz: yes, problem is at LP end
<seb128> mdz: yeah, it's really really really slow since yesterday :/
<fabbione> Keybuk: i think Marc has almost completed the first round
<mdz> pitti: the lrm change fixes the immediate problem, right?
<asac> mdz: what do you mean by stalled? like no redraw of ui ... or just waiting for server?
<pitti> mdz: right, there are actually two problems
<pitti> (1) r-m warns you about non-free drivers being in use, taints kernel, prone to raise political discussions
<pitti> (2) as soon as an user actually enables nvidia, it is going to break their X because of ABI incompatibility (except if they have a very *very* new card which is not supported by nvidia-glx)
<mdz> asac: I did some packet level debugging which I posted to the launchpad list; let's talk about it later
<asac> mdz: k
<pitti> mdz: thus we would break many X.orgs instead of showing off compiz&co for nvidia users :(
<Mithrandir> pitti: but the lrm fix in the queue fixes this, right?
<pitti> right
<pitti> it's not built yet, though
<Mithrandir> I'm driving the publisher by hand now
<pitti> but I saw that the source is in the archive
<pitti> 'no builds recorded' instead of 'needs build', hmm
<mdz> fabbione: is there any estimate of how long the cert tests will take
<fabbione> mdz: Marc is working hard to catch up. he promised to be as fast as he can, but no numbers for an ETA
<fabbione> mdz: i expect at least another day
<pitti> so, we have the l-r-m problem, the hwdb notification, about ubuntu menu items, lsb; we can probably live with any single one of them, but all together look really bad IMHO
<mdz> fabbione: I think it is irrelevant for now; either there will be no problems discovered and we can release, or there will be problems and we'll need to delay
<fabbione> mdz: as i said.. one bug found so far in n-m already reported by other people. I will be able to tell you more in a few hours when Montreal wakes up
<fabbione> mdz: i didn't know about the meeting till this morning, otherwise i would have gathered more info
<seb128> pitti: hwdb and about ubuntu are supposed to be fixed now, no?
<pitti> seb128: right, should be in the archive
<mdz> fabbione: bug number?
<Mithrandir> seb128: they are, if you run apt-get update.
<seb128> Mithrandir: ok, just making sure because pitti listed them
<Mithrandir> note however that ubuntu-docs still have "feisty fawn" in them in some places.
<fabbione> mdz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/105688
<pitti> seb128: argh, no, hwdb-client is still the old one
<Mithrandir> (with the version numbers, mind, so it's less bad)
<ubotu> Malone bug 105688 in network-manager "NetworkManager applet shows No network connection when there is a network connection (dup-of: 105234)" [Undecided,Needs info] 
<ubotu> Malone bug 105234 in network-manager "Netowrk manager says disconnected but is connected and working" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<seb128> that's network-manager change is confusing a lot of users
<seb128> that network-manager change
<Mithrandir> seb128: but it's confusing them rather than leaving them with broken networks.
<sladen> NM is teh rock.
<pitti> seb128: red herring, drescher has the new hwdb-client, so that's fixed as well
<ogra> sladen, the rock we all get buried under ?
<seb128> Mithrandir: how hard would it be to display no icon when it's not used?
<Mithrandir> seb128: probably doable.  I'll look into it.
<seb128> would be great
<ogra> seb128, it already does that if i shut down my WLAN (but keep the static iface up)
<ogra> as soon as i load the bcm module again, its back
<ogra> so juat abusing that function could probably work
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: could the n-m bug be due to your most recent change?
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: yes, and while the confusion isn't intentional, it is behaving correctly.
<Mithrandir> so we need to address the confusion.
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: is there an explanation in the bug of the confusion?
<seb128> cjwatson: network-manager does the right thing, it says there is no network configured though
<seb128> which means is not managing any
<Mithrandir> what seb says.
<seb128> but have an icon saying "no network configured" confuses users
<cjwatson> the bug above only has confused comments from users, AFAICS
<cjwatson> it needs an authoritative comment from somebody who understands what is going on
<seb128> because there is a network configured and working
<heno> I tested it with my father. He was slightly confused, but shrugged when the network worked anyway
<Mithrandir> there seems to be a real bug related to the "disable networking" menu item, I need to investigate what's the problem there.
<fabbione> wouldn't be possible to change the string to match reality?
<fabbione> like: "hey dude.. i can't manage your setup. kthxbye"
<Mithrandir> fabbione: it would break translations, but otherwise that's a possibility.
<fabbione> we can always unbreak them with langpacks update
<fabbione> it's probably the less intrusive change we can do
<heno> yes, the string is more confusing than the icon
<fabbione> dunno how many langs that string is translated, but i am pretty sure we can fix the major ones within the team
<seb128> fabbione: what's wrong with hiding the icon when there is nothing to manage?
<seb128> that doesn't break any string
<heno> 'Please replug your network cable' would work, because that 'fixes' it for the session :)
<mdz> heno: how does that fix it?
<pitti> seb128: but you'd lose the menu entry for static configuration or enabling wlan, etc.
<fabbione> seb128: nothing.. you need to change code and possibly add other regressions
<iwj> BenC: Is bug 99648 the same as bug 53268 ?
<cjwatson> heno: sounds more specific than the problem in fact indicates?
<mdz> this isn't the time to think about redesigning the UI
<seb128> pitti: can you enable wlan when there is not connexion managed?
<ubotu> Malone bug 99648 in linux-source-2.6.20 "MMC/SD memory card reader does not work" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/99648
<ubotu> Malone bug 53268 in hal "On Thinkpad X60s and Z60 SD card reader doesn't work" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/53268
<heno> mdz: if you unplu and replug ethernet it behaves as expected until you reboot
<pitti> seb128: if you disabled it before, then you'll be in that situation
<mdz> it seems there is a genuine issue, but we ought not rush in a poorly thought out change
<mdz> heno: why?  I thought in this situation, n-m was ignoring the interface
<pitti> disabling wlan temporarily should not cause the icon to go away
<heno> I think it ignores it bacause the network is brought up during boot, before n-m
<heno> if you 'let n-m find it' it's happy
<mdz> heno: but if it's already being managed by ifupdown, that would result in confusion (like two dhclients)
<Mithrandir> mdz: except the fact that network-manager kills it as part of its startup.
<Mithrandir> void nm_system_kill_all_dhcp_daemons (void)
<Mithrandir> { nm_spawn_process ("/usr/bin/killall -q dhclient");
<Mithrandir> }
<mdz> ...
<heno> Mithrandir: so when it does that it should also set a flag so it remembers to check for an active network later
<mdz> what a piece of work
<fabbione> Mithrandir: and it doesn't always work because sometime we spawn dhclient3
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: isn't it dhclient3?
<ogra> Mithrandir, could you call that nm_system_kill_all_dhcp_client ??
<Mithrandir> fabbione: we can kill those too.
<Mithrandir> ogra: no.
<fabbione> Mithrandir: we should
<ogra> Mithrandir, thats confusing :)
<Mithrandir> ogra: I'm not going to change the name of NM-internal interfaces.
<fabbione> ogra: no you can't. the nm backends export a standard API towards the rest
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: n-m ubuntu5 was a further fix for the problem with people with manually configured interfaces having trouble with n-m claiming they were offline, yes?
<Treenaks> what if n-m only manages one of several DHCP interfaces?
<ogra> Mithrandir, oh, i thought it was a new function ... ignore me :)=
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: it was a revert to the ubuntu3 behaviour, except we don't claim to be offline if there are disabled devices available.
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: remind me, was there a bug about that?
<Mithrandir> and then the applet is patched to check both the online/offline status and the number of devices managed.  If the number of managed devices is zero, it goes into "we are offline" mode.
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: yes, it broke LTSP setups for instance.
<Mithrandir> let me find the bug #
<cjwatson> we should have a policy that late changes must have a bug# referenced in the changelog
<ogra> cjwatson, it hogged static interfaces that are configured in /e/n/i and teared them down because NM allows only one iface to be up
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: why do you kill dhclient, rather than invoke ifdown?
<fabbione> Keybuk: that's what upstream does in all backends IIRC
<fabbione> Keybuk: you don't want to call ifdown because the interface might be in use for nfs mounts
<fabbione> Keybuk: just take over the dhcp process
<Keybuk> redhat don't have something quite like our ifup though
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: I believe that code is either from upstream or from you, I haven't written it.
<Keybuk> since ifdown won't work for that interface after you kill its dhclient
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: 100021
<cjwatson> thanks
<cjwatson> BenC: are you still awake?
<fabbione> am i still connected?
<seb128> fabbione: yes
<fabbione> thanks
<mvo> fabbione: no
<Mithrandir> I could make it use the connected icon and change the tooltip if there are manual devices, would that be good enough?
<ogra> sounds like
<ogra> as long as it doesnt *always* show the connected icon then at least :)
<Mithrandir> ogra: it'll always show it if you have manually configured devices.
<heno> Mithrandir: by manual, do you mean eth0 or static IP?
<ogra> thats fine
<ogra> heno, static ip and auto in /e/n/i
<heno> this problem occurs with dhcp too
<heno> which is the most common for basic users
<Mithrandir> heno: anything not managed by NM.
<ogra> you mean if /e/n/i is empty ?
<heno> ok, that will work then
<ogra> then it shouldnt happen ...
<cjwatson> so we have a possible proposal to skip release candidate and release Herd 6 instead
<cjwatson> at this point, if we have to delay release candidate, there'll be very little time to squeeze in validation
<mdz> we need to hear from Ben about these kernel bugs
<mdz> the changes which are proposed are too intrusive for 7 days before release
<cjwatson> so Herd 6 would be a much-less-validated set of images
<mdz> so if the problems are truly showstoppers, then we are looking at a delay of the release
<fabbione> what kind of delay we are talking about?
<fabbione> one week? two weeks?
<mdz> today was the first I had heard of these issues
<mdz> fabbione: unknown
<cjwatson> HPA has been on the table for some time and Ben has tested the patch on his array of non-HPA hardware
<mdz> fabbione: this change is proposing to switch to an entirely different IDE driver for a huge proportion of Intel based systesm
<mdz> (bug 96857)
<cjwatson> the PIIX thing I think we should drop
<ubotu> Malone bug 96857 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Feisty Beta: debian-installer does not mount cdrom" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96857
<mdz> so we have:
<mdz> kernel issues: we will have a talk with Ben when he wakes up and review those
<mdz> network-manager: Keybuk is looking over the patches and doing some further analysis
<mdz> what else is on the table?
<fabbione> server installer issues: Keybuk is on it already. bug #105623
<ubotu> Malone bug 105623 in devmapper "udev rules missing from udeb" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105623
<mdz> certification: we will await results, and have to decide on whether to delay if there are problems
<mdz> (fabio tracking)
<mdz> fabbione: this is a showstopper?
<mvo> I would like to add additional sanity checking into the release upgrader for python, but that should not be controversal I hope?
<fabbione> mdz: for RC no (would be enough a release note). For final yes
<Mithrandir> fabbione: fwiw, it just worked fine for me.
<mdz> fabbione: note that there is unlikely to be an RC unless we delay
<fabbione> Mithrandir: it works.. it only takes ages to work.. so if you don't look at it and go back after a while you don't even notice
<Mithrandir> fabbione: ok.
<fabbione> Mithrandir: it's about waiting 3 minutes for each devmapper device to be created
<mdz> mvo: for the CDs?
<fabbione> mdz: yeah of course..
<cjwatson> just adding those rules to the udeb stands a good chance of breaking the partitioner. I'd veto that.
<cjwatson> (because it would bring LVs/whatever up by default which the partitioner isn't expecting)
<mvo> mdz: having it on the CD is a bonus, but if its available online that should be fine
<fabbione> cjwatson: they are the exact same rules that lands in the installed system
<cjwatson> fabbione: the installed system is different in important ways
<doko> mdz: bug 105642, bug 105828
<cjwatson> release note and point release if we can get the change tested. It's annoying, but fixing it is very risky
<ubotu> Malone bug 105642 in linux-source-2.6.20 "kernel panic starting edubuntu dvd in live mode with VGA" [High,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105642
<ubotu> Malone bug 105828 in Ubuntu "wrong keyboard layout after LTSP chroot install" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105828
<Mithrandir> while it's annoying, I don't think it's a showstopper either.
<fabbione> cjwatson: i think Keybuk can tell you more about the status
<mdz> doko: you are saying that these are showstopper bugs?
<cjwatson> fabbione: I've already spoken with Scott about this.
<fabbione> cjwatson: ok
<cjwatson> keyboard layout> totally not release-critical. dpkg-reconfigure console-setup
<ogra> mdz, i'm not yet sure 105828 is a valid one, i havent seen it in any installs here
<doko> mdz: well, a kernel panic for the default install? IMO rc for the final; the edubuntu install not.
<ogra> mdz, doko and i are still investigating
<mdz> doko: I'm asking you; you just gave bug numbers without context
<ogra> doko, the panic doesnt happen witjh the CD here
<mdz> doko: a kernel panic under what circumstances?
<ogra> mdz, framebuffer
<ogra> it immediatley dies if it tries frambuffer stuff
<ogra> i.e. directly after gfxboot
<doko> mdz: 105642: insert the edubuntu amd64 dvd, let it boot alone.
<ogra> it either is specific to dokos HW or to the DVD
<ogra> i dont see it on two different machines with the CD
<doko> ogra: I can recheck with another DVD, but not other hardware
<Mithrandir> I can check it here once I finish downloading the edubuntu dvd
<heno> I have the Edubuntu DVD, I'll check too
<mdz> surely this is not specific to edubuntu
<ogra> doko, i find it weird that you have so many bugs i dont see anywhere else ...
<mdz> if it is, it's even less potentially serious
<ogra> especially the keyboard thing i see no technical way how that could happen
<mdz> it's easy enough to test, should not be hardware-specific
<cjwatson> I'm burning an Ubuntu amd64 DVD now
<ogra> mdz, still i'm missing a logical explanation how a setting in a chroot can influence a confiog file on the host system
<cjwatson> ogra: it's not release-critical. please worry about it later
<cjwatson> we do not have time to get into extensive research regarding non-release-critical problems
<ogra> cjwatson, well ... having all edubuntu installs with US keyboard is something i'd see as RC
<cjwatson> I disagree
<cjwatson> you can reconfigure it trivially, and furthermore you already said it's not happening to you
<ogra> 80% of your users are non english
<cjwatson> unless you feel that your testing is in some way inadequate?
<ogra> not really ... it worked the last releases :)
<cjwatson> I'm not dismissing doko's problem, but I do think that it is not something to delay release for
<ogra> if i start seeing it too i'd consider it for edubuntu
<ogra> but i dont (yet ?) so this discussion is pointless
<mdz> ok, so we have a current direction for each of the outstanding issues I mentioned
<mdz> last call for other issues we need to be aware of for release
<pitti> bug 104602?
<mdz> we are in a delicate state right now, and it's important to know how serious it is
<ubotu> Malone bug 104602 in sysvinit "root password visible at emergency console" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104602
<pitti> can be fixed in a security update as well, though
<fabbione> ah so i was not the only one
<fabbione> that's also with upstart
<pitti> it's an usplash bug really
<Mithrandir> mdz: were you able to reproduce the NM resume from hibernate problem?
<pitti> it's not a release blocker, but important IMHO
<fabbione> mdz: there is a bug in multipath-tools but i already uploaded the fixed version. it's not worth more discussion here.
<Keybuk> pitti: we don't set root passwords by default, and you have to be at the console anyway
<kwwii> not a show stopper, but I was hoping to finish a usplash/CD install pic for Xubuntu
<Keybuk> definitely not stopping the show ;)
<mdz> pitti: definitely a serious issue which should be fixed
<mdz> pitti: but I think it can be a security update
<cjwatson> CD install images can go in very late, usplash less so
<kwwii> is that still possible?
<pitti> I agree, but you wanted to be aware of important issues, so I thought I'd mention it
<mdz> pitti: thanks
<kwwii> cjwatson: in any case, it should be done by tomorrow at the latest - if it is too late, so be it
<mdz> if you don't have a release-critical task to work on, please join #ubuntu-bugs
<mdz> and help keep an eye out for unexpected issues as they arise
<mdz> if you discover something which looks serious, please talk to Colin, Scott or myself
<mdz> there will be further communication about the kernel, certification and other outstanding issues as it is available
<pitti> so, will we get new RC images?
<fabbione> or Herd-6?
<fabbione> what's the consensum now?
<pitti> well, it's just a name
<mdz> we will get new daily builds
<mdz> it is unknown whether we will delay the release or not
<mdz> and that will determine the plan for remaining milestones
<cjwatson> I do not feel we should have a release candidate at this point
<fabbione> pitti: well herd-6 will involve a new RC set
<cjwatson> unless the release is delayed
<mdz> there is no point doing a full validation test of an RC at this point when there are known blockers
<cjwatson> pitti: herd-6 => not a complete round of validation
<mdz> has everyone done at least one test of each of their assigned ISOs?
<mdz> please confirm
* fabbione did
<pitti> confirm
<mvo> yes
<Riddell> yes
* dholbach did too
<pkl_> pkl: yes
<asac> confirm
<cjwatson> I will have done in about one minute when I reboot
<mdz> heno: are you able to tell if any tests were outstanding?
<Mithrandir> server, not the kubuntu amd64 dvd yet (since cdimage was excessively slow yesterday)
<fabbione> mdz: https://www.stgraber.org/ubuntu/isotesting has  a pretty good overview
<heno> mdz: https://www.stgraber.org/ubuntu/isotesting
<pitti> https://www.stgraber.org/ubuntu/isotesting shows quite a number of (0)s
<asac> oh wait ... not yet finished ... will finish later today
<heno> netboot is undertested and DVDs
<iwj> doko: Thanks for doing those dvd tests btw.
<heno> and upgrades, I'm doing some of those now
<iwj> Err, dholbach I mean.
<iwj> Duh.
<mdz> heno: please review with cjwatson and determine whether we need to push some specific cases
<doko> iwj: they were assigned to me :)
<dholbach> iwj: np
<heno> right
<mdz> ok, we've taken long enough with this meeting, let's reconvene later once we've filled in some of the unknowns
<mdz> adjourned, thanks all
<iwj> doko: Were they ?  heno said he was going to give them to me but as it was I didn't get the iso downloaded in time.
<dholbach> thanks
<mvo> ogra: I can do a round of edubuntu upgrades tests for you if you want
* asac leaves in a hurry
<asac> thanks
<kwwii> thanks
<dholbach> bye asac
<ogra> mvo, appreciated
* mvo prepares another tea
<doko> iwj: just the edubuntu amd64 dvd
<pitti> Mithrandir: hm, without RC being decided, when would be a good time to upload new langpacks?
<highvoltage> you guys rock.
<Mithrandir> pitti: after RC
<pitti> Mithrandir: right, but now it's not even clear when or whether that will be
<fabbione> pitti: i'd say we keep RC mode until they decide and go from there
<Mithrandir> pitti: true.  I'd like to do the current set of images first at least.
<fabbione> i see little point in pushing more atm
<pitti> Mithrandir: right
<pitti> Mithrandir: it can't happen before tomorrow midday anyway
<Simira> @schedule Oslo
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Oslo: 12 Apr 22:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 22:00: Development Team | 12 Apr 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 22:00: Forum Council | 17 Apr 17:00: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 22:00: Community Council
<Simira> what's the difference between "Ubuntu development team" and "Development team"
<Simira> ?
<Riddell> they can both go
<Simira> but the difference?
<Riddell> one is old and obsolete, the other is merely obsolete
<Treenaks> Riddell: so what's New and Hot?
<Simira> right
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 12 Apr 15:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 15:00: Development Team | 12 Apr 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 15:00: Forum Council | 17 Apr 10:00: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 15:00: Community Council
<nixternal> argh, who booged up the fridge?
<Riddell> Treenaks: like I say, they can both go, the meeting has happened
<Treenaks> Riddell: oh like that
<Treenaks> Riddell: I thought someone had changed the project's organisational structure without telling anyone ;)
<jsgotangco> @schedule manila
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 13 Apr 04:00: MOTU | 13 Apr 04:00: Development Team | 13 Apr 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Apr 04:00: Forum Council | 17 Apr 23:00: Kernel Team | 18 Apr 04:00: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 13 Apr 20:00 UTC: Forum Council | 17 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 18 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:00 UTC: Development Team
<nixternal> there fixed :)
<Simira> @schedule Oslo
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Oslo: 12 Apr 22:00: MOTU | 13 Apr 22:00: Forum Council | 17 Apr 17:00: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 22:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 17:00: Development Team
<teaker1s> .
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: MOTU | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Apr 20:00 UTC: Forum Council | 17 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 18 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:00 UTC: Development Team
<dholbach> might be a bit late for the meeting
* somerville32 is here.
<sistpoty> hi dholbach and somerville32
<somerville32> hey : )
<Adri2000> hi
<ScottK> Hello.
<lionel> hi
<ajmitch> well, agenda is fairly empty, noone's here
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<ajmitch> hi
<sistpoty> let's get started, shall we?
<ajmitch> oh good, sistpoty is awake ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> (partly awake... got up before 10am, new record *g*)
* ajmitch was awake sometime around 5am
<Adri2000> 10am, wow! :p
<dholbach> ok
<ajmitch> dholbach!
<dholbach> is the agenda new?
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> do we have anything to talk about?
<dholbach> the charter's on there
<sistpoty> erm.. that item was left over from the last agenda
<ajmitch> apart from the release, and gutsy
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> I have only one small item:
<ajmitch> release freeze?
<dholbach> the motu-uvf team needs to clean out all bugs and get things uploaded or rejected properly
<dholbach> and we should do that RSN
<ajmitch> ok
<dholbach> we have quite a bunch hanging in a limbo state
* ajmitch waits for LP
<dholbach> that's all I can see for now
<ajmitch> there don't seem to be that many on the assigned bugs page
<dholbach> subscribed?
<dholbach> the less the better
* ajmitch has mainly been looking at the assigned bugs
<ajmitch> LP is slow enough as it is :)
<dholbach> what else? is there any use having another universe hug day before release?
<dholbach> nice to get LP cleaned up and patches submitted for either release or for SRUs, but will we have time for that?
<ajmitch> are we going to have a freeze in the last week?
<ScottK> We could have a reject all the left over breezy bugs day next week!
<sistpoty> erm... sorry, I'm a little slow today. I can't see any subscribed bugs of motu-uvf?
<dholbach> ajmitch: i suppose so
<ajmitch> sistpoty: it could be LP failing again :) I just got proxy errors trying to view bugs
<dholbach> ScottK: sounds good, but that's something we can clean up after release :)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: maybe... it only tells me: "There are currently no open bugs." (with the +subscribedbugs page)
<ScottK> OK.  I may get started ahead of time.
<dholbach> sistpoty: ok, seems there are only ten
<sistpoty> ah, k
<ajmitch> of those that are in limbo - sysv_rc_bootsplash, wxwidgets2.8, texmacs
<dholbach> ajmitch, siretart, slomo, crimsun and I will take a look at them
<dholbach> anything else we should discuss before release?
<rmjb> any adjustments in the way MOTU work for gutsy?
<ajmitch> targetting the rc bugs list still?
<sistpoty> we did have the idea of a harder freeze, with *all* uploads needing to be approved by motu-uvf... are we doing this right now actually?
<ajmitch> dholbach: make that 8 on the uvf list
<dholbach> rmjb: that we'll discuss after release - atm we'll focus on the release
<rmjb> dholbach: ok
<ajmitch> ok to reject wxwidgets2.8 uvfe?
<dholbach> rmjb: but if you have suggestions, it'd be nice to hear about them - the mailing list might be good to discuss things there
<dholbach> ajmitch: ok
<dholbach> ajmitch: thanks
<dholbach> sistpoty: atm, all uploads get reviewed and checked by the archive admins - dunno how they decide if they wave them through or not
<siretart> hi folks - sorry for being late
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<ajmitch> it'd be best to clarify things with the archive admins then if they ask
<dholbach> hey siretart
<ajmitch> hey siretart
<dholbach> ajmitch: yeah
<sistpoty> dholbach: so it's just regular uploading from the motu pov, right?
<dholbach> atm, yes
<sistpoty> ok
<dholbach> not sure if it's going to change in the remaining 7 days
<dholbach> I feel most of us have been quite conservative with their fixes
<dholbach> ie small unmetdeps fixes, etc
<sistpoty> not quite sure if it's worth the overhead... *shrug*
<sistpoty> (to change policy now)
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> ok.... what else? anything we should definitely take care of for the release?
<siretart> dholbach: I've asked Tollef about the idea we had regarding removing binary packages with broken deps. The idea got rejected, do you happen to know why?
<dholbach> no no idea
<sistpoty> let me check the logs... he stated a reason back when I asked him
<ajmitch> yay
<ScottK> The sneaky solution would be a new source package that you know will FTBFS.
<Lutin> ScottK: the former binary version would stay in the archive though
<ScottK> Oh.  Nevermind then.
<sistpoty> hm... can't find it in my logs :(... iirc the reasons were the overhead for archive admins (it would result in binary new packages) and that it would be quite surprising to have a sru package in binary new
* ajmitch should have looked closer at texmacs awhile ago
<siretart> hm. fair enough
<ajmitch> the RC bug in debian was only in the version in experimental
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> anything else?
<ajmitch> short meeting, I like it
<ajmitch> next meeting date?
<sistpoty> two weeks from now?
<dholbach> 2 weeks?
<dholbach> sounds good to me
<sistpoty> :)
<ajmitch> rotate time or not?
<dholbach> next time :)
* ajmitch won't be able to make it if it's at 0800UTC on the 26th
<dholbach> it's not 8 utc atm
<ajmitch> no, but we talked about changing it by 12 hours each time to be fair to people like australians :)
<dholbach> next time then :)
<sistpoty> fine with me :)
<ajmitch> k
<ajmitch> which means 2 meetings from now, will be during UDS :)
<ajmitch> but dholbach_ won't mind that :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<dholbach_> but I can update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMenuHeader again :)
<dholbach_> looks like i missed some part of the conversation
<ajmitch> 08:26 < ajmitch> k
<ajmitch> 08:27 < ajmitch> which means 2 meetings from now, will be during UDS :)
<sistpoty> the menu header is cool btw :)
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> ok good
<dholbach> everybody happy?
<dholbach> who mails fridge-devel@ and others?
* ajmitch is overjoyed
<sistpoty> does that mean that you volunteer ajmitch? *g*
<dholbach> he's so happy, he can't stop himself :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> who do I have to contact?
<ajmitch> motu list, fridge-devel, devel-announce?
<dholbach> fridge-devel@ ubuntu-devel@ ubuntu-motu@
<dholbach> yeah, or like that
<ajmitch> alright, will do
<ajmitch> thanks for showing up :)
<dholbach> super
<sistpoty> thanks everyone
<dholbach> adjourned :)
* ajmitch has his passport ready now
<ajmitch> since I had to find the number :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Apr 20:00 UTC: Forum Council | 17 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 18 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:00 UTC: Development Team | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-13
<shawarma> @schedule Copenhagen
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 13 Apr 22:00: Forum Council | 17 Apr 17:00: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 22:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 17:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 22:00: Technical Board
<shawarma> Yay.
<Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 13 Apr 23:00: Forum Council | 17 Apr 18:00: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 18:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 23:00: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Forum Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 18 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:00 UTC: Development Team | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<ubuntugeek> hello
<forumsmatthew> hello, ubuntugeek
<ubuntugeek> hows it going matthew?
<SD-Plissken> hello, ubuntugeek.
<ubuntugeek> hey sd
<forumsmatthew> not too bad
<ubuntugeek> vorian here?
<forumsmatthew> I've got a cold and I'm on Benadryl, so I may be a little loopy
<ubuntugeek> no problem
<vorian> yep
<vorian> hey ubuntugeek
<ubuntugeek> howdy
<Treenaks> forumsmatthew: benadryl? that almost sounds like compiz+beryl ;)
<forumsmatthew> Treenaks, lol
<forumsmatthew> everything's wobbling
<jdong> hello hello
<ubuntugeek> hey john
<vorian> whew, I didn't think I would make it on time :-/
<ubuntugeek> :)
<vorian> alright, lets get this party started :)
<vorian> first up
<vorian> 
<vorian> hardware team co-leader
<SD-Plissken> Which only one person applied for.
<vorian> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=384360/
<vorian> should we shoot for more applicants before we make a decision on this?
<forumsmatthew> Yay! Mike made it
<SD-Plissken> I think thats the best thing to do vorian.
<ubuntugeek> Yeah thats my thought.. we could look at merging that team
<MikeB-> my laptop is giving me fits:)
<SD-Plissken> Hello MikeB-
<ubuntugeek> into beginners team
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, merging sounds like a reasonable plan
<vorian> that sounds like a good idea =] 
<ubuntugeek> bodhi has it together
<jdong> ubuntugeek: merging is good, but iwth beginners?
<MikeB-> how long ago did you start?
<forumsmatthew> beginners have hardware
<forumsmatthew> MikeB-, just 2 minutes ago
<MikeB-> whew
<jdong> okay, we can try that :)
<ubuntugeek> considering bodhi offered help http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=408325 to the hardware team
<ubuntugeek> i think its  a good idea
<vorian> the kind of documentation bodhi is working on will fit perfectly with the hardware team.
<forumsmatthew> I saw bodhi's offer, nice
<jdong> ubuntugeek: yeah, I didn't see his offer before; yeah that'll work out
<ubuntugeek> so i'm gonna +1 I dont think bodhi will decline if there is an issue we can put it back on the agenda for next month and adjust if needed..
<PriceChild> lord illian did start trying.... but then disappeared completely again and hasn't been seen for a week
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, +1
<jdong> +1
<vorian> MikeB-, poke
<SD-Plissken> +1
<MikeB-> +1
<vorian> :)
<vorian> ready for the next item?
<forumsmatthew> I'm ready
<vorian> UWN Sticky and Stickies in general
<vorian> The procedure for suggesting and approving temporary and permanent stickies (esp. in the Cafe) needs to be revised
<vorian> jenda, ^
<vorian> oops, guess that was solved already
<ubuntugeek> Yeah :)
<ubuntugeek> however, since we are going to have time to spare..
<jenda> weehee
<jenda> hello
<jenda> sorry, I forgot :)
<ubuntugeek> lets take a run with the stickies and make a policy for them
<jenda> I'd say suggest to staff -> vote among staff
<ubuntugeek> anyone have any suggestions on improving or enhancing stickies?
<forumsmatthew> I like the way SD-Plissken did it today
<forumsmatthew> Found a need, discussed it, wrote it up
<forumsmatthew> with feedback
<PriceChild> I'd like to say I don't like the suggestions of "lets remove stickies and put it into a thread with a list of important threads inside.... they'll get seen even less imo.
<jenda> any user suggests to any staff member a thread for sticky -> the staff member does a staff poll in the staff chitchat
<jenda> forumsmatthew: linky?
<forumsmatthew> brb, I'll look
<forumsmatthew> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=408406
<ubuntugeek> Thats pretty much along the lines of Jenda's thought .. Works for me
<vorian> nice SD-Plissken :)
<SD-Plissken> Thanks.
<jenda> I'd make a poll among staff a standard... and the admins should have final word (or the FC)
<jenda> SD-Plissken++
<jdong> stickies should have some standard expiratory timeframe too
<jdong> at which time a new sticky will have to be submitted for approval also....
<jenda> jdong: that should be included in the poll - some stickies are intended to be permanent.
<jenda> yes
<jenda> err...
<jenda> yeah, that.
<jdong> jenda: permanent stickies will still need revising
<jenda> :)
<jenda> ok
<jdong> jenda: especially when like there's 500 replies and little bits of info added here and there :D
<ubuntugeek> the only issue with a poll is sometimes a sticky will need to be created ASAP and there isnt time for a poll
<jenda> yep, you're right.
<MikeB-> so we will have two types of stickies permanent, and expiring
<jdong> something like 2 months sounds reasonable for default....
<ubuntugeek> mikeb: agreed
<jdong> in that kind of time frame something will have changed
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, for things like the current kernel breakage you mean?
<jenda> MikeB-: and the permanent ones should be re-checked every once in a while.
<ubuntugeek> seveas: yep
<jenda> ubuntugeek: in that case, it should be the admin's call
<ubuntugeek> jenda: that works
<forumsmatthew> +1 for checking stickies--maybe the original writer's initially responsible to do so occasionally?
<MikeB-> two monthes, I was thinking two weeks:)
<jdong> MikeB-: guess we need short-expiring and long-expiring stickies then :)
<jenda> forumsmatthew++
<jenda> well, no
<jenda> forumsmatthew: the OP might have interest in not telling anyone if the sticky should be removed :)
<forumsmatthew> jenda, oh, yeah...that human nature thing. Well, we can all kind of peruse and suggest changes when needed, and let FC members make a final call.
<ubuntugeek> lets say that the OP needs to maintain the sticky, if its a critical/information sticky 2months none critical 1week.. anything that needs to be permanent can be an announcement.
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, +1
<SD-Plissken> We will have short stickies for emergency's and permanent stickies  as well as stickies that require re-certification after 2-3 weeks
<MikeB-> ubuntugeek +1
<jenda> ubuntugeek: +1
<ubuntugeek> there will be a 24 hour window for voting on a sticky
<forumsmatthew> +1 for 24 hour window
<ubuntugeek> stickies that are needed ASAP is an admins call, if no admins are around the person leading the charge can make a best judgement
<jdong> ubuntugeek: +1
<forumsmatthew> I"m wearing out my +1 keys
<ubuntugeek> +1
<SD-Plissken> ++1
<jenda> forumsmatthew: use the numpad once you do.
<vorian> +1
<MikeB-> forumsmatthew: I have a mouse button bound to +1:)
<jdong> lol
<forumsmatthew> doesn't anyone have anything controversial to say???
<forumsmatthew> MikeB-, lol
<jdong> I'd rather not :D
<MikeB-> forumsmatthew: I think DOn Imus got a raw deal:)
<ubuntugeek> al-rightly then :)
<vorian> next item?
<forumsmatthew> MikeB-, rotfl!!!!!!!!
<forumsmatthew> next item
<ubuntugeek> vorian: yeah
<vorian> Forum updates
<vorian> More of a FYI for the record, I added a couple features to the forums were users can link to their Launchpad profiles. Also when posting a new thread or a reply in the support areas of the forums users can link to a Launchpad bug.
<jdong> any plans for when the reciprocal will happen?
<ubuntugeek> No one objected but I figured i'd mention it..
<forumsmatthew> I really like the bug link feature. The profile link is a nice touch, too.
<jdong> i.e. LP linking to forum user accounts....
<PriceChild> jdong, I don't think they're going to
<jdong> that's a link I'd really wish LP would make
<forumsmatthew> jdong, that's controversial
<PriceChild> jdong, launchpad isn't ubuntu specific
<ubuntugeek> jdong; there is a bug in LP but doesnt look like it will happen
<jdong> it's the last missing piece of identity
<jdong> ubuntugeek: heh ok
<MikeB-> I plan to have a loooong talk with launchpad people at the UDS
<ubuntugeek> mikeb: great!
<PriceChild> MikeB-, pull me in :)
* nixternal wonders who is in charge of creating the LoCo forums - Ubuntu Illinois & Chicago was posted 2 days ago (request)
<jdong> it's a shame that it won't happen any time soon
<ubuntugeek> nixternal: thats me :O
<forumsmatthew> MikeB-, if I get there, take me in as well
<jdong> trying to link the identity of an IRC user to the forums is a big pain from experience
<ubuntugeek> nixternal: i'll get them taken care of today
<nixternal> ubuntugeek: you rock!
<MikeB-> a bug report on the kernel issue burst out in a debate on launchpad, if  launchpad could link the forum more, the discussion could be diverted there
<nixternal> ubuntugeek: feel free to make Illinois & Chicago one, I can just sticky Chicago info in the Illinois forum
<ubuntugeek> Also, I made some pretty drastic changes to the forum index to clean it up.. no one objected but again just wanted to mention it..
<PriceChild> loving the new layout... much quicker :)
<vorian> look very nice =] 
<forumsmatthew> x2
<vorian> s*
<ubuntugeek> Also, for the record when feisty comes out we "might" have to disable tags until traffic gets normal again
<ubuntugeek> I am worried about the loads
<jdong> ubuntugeek: have you attempted at another go of getting hardware upgrades? :D
* ubuntugeek note to self to offload tags to sphinx
<ubuntugeek> jdong: no.. mikeb and myself talk about presenting some requirements at the summit
<jdong> sounds good
<jdong> doesn't look like they take us seriously right now :-/
<ubuntugeek> thats pretty much all i had to say about the changes
<ubuntugeek> to the layout etc
<vorian> alrighty then
<vorian> last item
<vorian> 3rd party sections
<vorian> A new procedure for requesting a third party forum. I sent a PM to all the third party maintainers asking for confirmation that they still want to keep their section active. I would like to get a vote on this new procedure to make it "official".
<forumsmatthew> can you outline it a little more, for the record?
<ubuntugeek> yep
<PriceChild> What about cases like the "linux for clinics" where they have their own forum elsewhere?
<ubuntugeek> second while i type
<ubuntugeek> :)
<ubuntugeek> The purpose of the change is pretty simple, alot of these projects have grown and now have their own official means. When the 3rd party section was create there was no order to it etc. I took the LoCo forums as an example and applied to to the 3rd party section. Our original goal for the 3rd party was to facilitate niche software/projects that related directly to ubuntu and help them get established and provide them with a space to d
<ubuntugeek> If a project/software has their own official forums we can simply provide a link to their forum.
<ubuntugeek> or not
<ubuntugeek> this is the policy for requesting a 3rd party area
<ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=393914
<ubuntugeek> which is modeled after the LoCo one.. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=290685
<ubuntugeek> thoughts concerns?
<SD-Plissken> Seems fair to me.
<ubuntugeek> There needs to be an established process for dealing with them
<ubuntugeek> forumsmatthew: did you get any of that?
<jdong> I think we need to establish a renewal period too
<ubuntugeek> jdong: agreed
<forumsmatthew> I got up to the link
<ubuntugeek> k
<ubuntugeek> ..wave..
<MikeB-> it sound fine to me
<forumsmatthew> +1
<jdong> what would be a reasonable expiry time....
<ubuntugeek> hmm 1year?
<jdong> let's just triple what MikeB- says :D
<jdong> lol
<jdong> 1 year sounds reasonable
<forumsmatthew> 1 year is good
<vorian> would that apply to LoCo teams as well?
<jdong> good question
<ubuntugeek> Also, I would like to make another adjustment.. the FC can vote to remove any 3rd party at anytime
<jdong> I think less so for LoCo
<ubuntugeek> As we have seen in the past there could be the need for this..
<jdong> ubuntugeek: yeah, good to clearly state that; though I think that's implied within the FC's range of powers
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, big +1
<SD-Plissken> Vorian only if your team has their own website. I think.
<ubuntugeek> For LoCo's thats an official part of the ubuntu community
<forumsmatthew> vorian, do you mean the 1 year expiry time?
<MikeB-> I have been trying to think of a way for Ubuntuforums central point for Ubuntu based forums, and find a wway to connect more to the other ubuntu based forums
<vorian> forumsmatthew, just want to know for the record :)
<ubuntugeek> mikeb: lets discuss that in a sec.. I got an idea for that too
<ubuntugeek> Based on the fact that LoCo's are part of the overall community i see no need for renewals.. the only reason I could think to remove one is if the Loco team dissolved.
<forumsmatthew> that was the answer I expected...they are more formal than the 3rd party
<ubuntugeek> anything anyone wants to add?
<MikeB-> ubuntugeek: we would need some communication from Jono or someone else in the LoCo to let us know the Loco is gone
<ubuntugeek> mikeb: yep, i'd assume the person who created it would contact someone on staff.. i've been contacted already about merging them. I referred them back to jono for consultation on that.
<ubuntugeek> merging them, meaning two teams that wanted to merge
<vorian> great!
<vorian> anything else?
<ubuntugeek> i'm good
<ubuntugeek> +1
<MikeB-> +1
<forumsmatthew> +1
<SD-Plissken> +1
<ubuntugeek> Something that isn't on topic and that was discussed on the FC mailing list and then again in pretty large detail was our official stance on third party installations scripts..
<forumsmatthew> http://ubuntuforums.org/announcement.php?f=13
<SD-Plissken> Now here comes the controversy.. lol
<forumsmatthew> Anyone want to comment publicly?
<ubuntugeek> Nope
<ubuntugeek> Nothing further to say from me.. +1 on that announcement
<MikeB-> I'm kinda hoping the built-in tools in Feisty may make some of this go away
<jdong> I don't think there is anything controversial about the announcement
<forumsmatthew> Are we so right on that everyone thinks comment isn't needed, or are we so wrong you don't know where to start?
<jdong> it is just a message that unofficial extensions/programs on Ubuntu basically put you on your own responsibility to diagnose problems
<jdong> and basically make it harder for us to provide effective suppot
<jdong> I fully support the announcement
<SD-Plissken> I'm fine with the comment/post/announcement.
<GazzaK> I like the way that announcement is worded, well done
<MikeB-> the announcement is well written and very clear
<ubuntugeek> Great.
<MikeB-> and show shows no favoritism or malice toward anyone
<SD-Plissken> One concern is how do we get members to understand this.
<vorian> in a loving way SD-Plissken :)
<forumsmatthew> vorian, +1
<jdong> the corollary to this that I think we need to directly address... what do we do when we come across an automatix/3rdparty support question?
<jdong> do we cease the discussion?
<jdong> there's something that sounds uneasy about that
<MikeB-> SD-Plissken: I willing 95% will understand with no problem, but the other 5% we will have to be patience with
<ubuntugeek> Because of the past/current issues regarding one of those installations. The person should be directed to that announcement. If they persist to cause drama then they will be removed.
<SD-Plissken> MikeB- you may be right on that.
<forumsmatthew> I would prefer to let the discussion continue, after stating our stance with a link
<GazzaK> to be honest, I think feisty will solve many of the issues.
<forumsmatthew> and give users other options
<forumsmatthew> all while being polite
<MikeB-> jdong: point people to the AX forum, and leave it be if discussion is civil
<forumsmatthew> GazzaK, I think so too
<jdong> GazzaK: it will be far from completely solved
<jdong> there's still illegal codecs
<jdong> and also random 3rd party packages people want
<jdong> those two demands will never cease
<PriceChild> argh router messed up, brb
<vorian> we should follow up with this discussion at the next meeting to see how things go over the next few weeks.
<vorian> also*
<ubuntugeek> vorian: sounds fine
<MikeB-> vorian: good idea
<jdong> agreed, we should follow up in 1 or 2 meeting's time
<forumsmatthew> +1, revisit
<vorian> and on the topic of the next meeting....
<vorian> 2nd tuesday of May @ 16:00?
* forumsmatthew searches for a calendar
<ubuntugeek> vorian: works for me
<forumsmatthew> May 8th
<ubuntugeek> We still have some time, does anyone have anything else to mention?
<ubuntugeek> rants/praises/thoughts/ etc ?
* jdong looks at calendar
<jdong> tuesday 16:000 won't work for me
<vorian> the forums look great ubuntugeek! nice work!
<jdong> T/R will have to be after 21:00 for me :(, W/F are much better
<MikeB-> that will be during UDS
<ubuntugeek> does this time on fridays work ?
<jdong> yeah, this time on fridays is great
<ubuntugeek> this works for me as well
<forumsmatthew> Fine by me,
<MikeB-> it is fine with me
<SD-Plissken> Fine for me.
<ubuntugeek> great!
<vorian> noted
<forumsmatthew> May 11
<ubuntugeek> perfect
<jdong> a day before my birthday :)
<forumsmatthew> sweet!
<MikeB-> I will be on a train back to Madrid at 20:00 UTC
<forumsmatthew> Oh...I may be in my car somewhere in Andalucia
<ubuntugeek> first friday in may?
<ubuntugeek> that work?
<vorian> May 4th
<forumsmatthew> That one's better
<ubuntu_demon> suggestion : do it after UDS. You guys might want to evaluate some UDS stuff.
<MikeB-> I going to Spain a week early with my family to vacation
<ubuntugeek> ok third time is a charm.. third friday in may?
<MikeB-> cool with me :)
<vorian> May 18th
<forumsmatthew> I'm good
<ubuntugeek> ok
<vorian> great!
<ubuntugeek> anything else?
<forumsmatthew> anyone want a spam link for my book?
<ubuntugeek> Actually just a follow up to the 3rd party area.. I will research who has their own official support methods and contact them to let them know the decision.
<forumsmatthew> u-g, great!
<vorian> I'll summarize and post this all over the place later tonight :)
<ubuntugeek> vorian: thanks
<ubuntugeek> anything else?
<ubuntugeek> I cant think of anything pressing
<MikeB-> nothing here
<forumsmatthew> nope
<SD-Plissken> no
<ubuntugeek> Oh, might as well toss this out there
<vorian> lol
<ubuntugeek> purchased a copy of vbseo today http://www.vbseo.com/ to test out on the forums for optimization
<Pricey> vorian, could you pm me anything interesting I may have missed? :)
<vorian> sure thing
<ubuntugeek> and improve some of our search engine links i noticed some content gets lost or is hard to fine
<ubuntugeek> fine = find
<forumsmatthew> cool
<ubuntugeek> any objections from anyone
<ubuntugeek> ?
<MikeB-> nope
<jdong> nope
<forumsmatthew> nada
<jdong> hold on, I think I feel an RMS ray beaming down on me from 3 floors above....
<jdong> must.... use..... Free..... Software.....
<ubuntugeek> lol
<jdong> :)
<ubuntugeek> well phpbb isnt an option
<ubuntugeek> neither is smf
<jdong> haha
<jdong> phpbb :)
<ubuntugeek> why we went with vbulletin :)
<ubuntugeek> the only time it breaks is when i do it.. heh
<forumsmatthew> :)
<jdong> :)
<ubuntugeek> anything else?
<Pricey> just reading the about on that vbseo.... it doesn't give google access to the jail again does it? :P - "BSEO ensures that all of your vBulletin forum content pages (i.e. threads) can be included in Internet search engines"
<ubuntugeek> pricey: nope
<ubuntugeek> pricey: permissions are taken into consideration
<Pricey> cool :)
<MikeB-> later all,
<ubuntugeek> Like I said, i jsut want to test this out it has some features like submitting posts to digg etc.. that are nice..
<ubuntugeek> see ya mike
<ubuntugeek> thanks for coming
<vorian> bye MikeB- :)
<forumsmatthew> note: front page link to news & announcements is broken... http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=12
<forumsmatthew> bye, MikeB-
<ubuntugeek> shoot
<ubuntugeek> lol
<ubuntugeek> like i said.. when i break it ;)
<forumsmatthew> :)
<ubuntugeek> fixed
<forumsmatthew> wow!
<ubuntugeek> OO
<ubuntugeek> forgot to mention
<Pricey> "you're all fired - bye"
<vorian> hahaha
<SD-Plissken> Right...
<forumsmatthew> I knew I shouldn't have changed the title of "Ubuntu Testimonials..."
<ubuntugeek> Forum Ambassador is now an official team
<ubuntugeek> on the forums
<SD-Plissken> it is ?
<ubuntugeek> yep
<forumsmatthew> U-D leading?
<ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=235
<SD-Plissken> Them guys finally got that going..
<Pricey> woo finally :) Mr, U-D, maniacmusician and `23meg are leaders
<ubuntugeek> yep so grats to them they put alot of work into it
<vorian> sweet!
<SD-Plissken> The three stooges..
<forumsmatthew> very nice. Congratulations!
<ubuntugeek> Thats all from me..
<vorian> great meeting everyone :)
<ubuntugeek> As always the staff rocks! the admins rock! lets get prepared for fiesty
<SD-Plissken> End Transmission..
<Pricey> (and gutsy)
<ubuntugeek> yep..
<ubuntugeek> thanks all
<Seveas> Pricey, the first 'Goatse Gibbon' remarks have ben spotted....
<ubuntugeek> i am off to fight rush hour traffic
<forumsmatthew> thank you!
<Admiral_Chicago> great....
<Admiral_Chicago> goatse jokes already... :)
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, bring a bazooka ;)
<Pricey> Seveas, lol :) All I've heard ate gustys... and of course jdong's suggestion in the #ubuntuforums topic
<Pricey> s/ate/are/
<vorian> lol
<Seveas> Pricey, somehow it's funnier with 'ate' :p
<Pricey> :)
<forumsmatthew> bye, all
<vorian> bye forumsmatthew
<ubuntu_demon> bye guys :)
<vorian> bye ubuntu_demon
<vorian> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-15
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 17 Apr 17:00: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 22:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 17:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu
<jsgotangco> @schedule manila
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 17 Apr 23:00: Kernel Team | 18 Apr 04:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 23:00: Development Team | 25 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 04:00: Edubuntu
<zorglu_> anyway to do schedule command via /msg ?
<ScottK> @schedule new york
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 17 Apr 11:00: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 16:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 11:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 16:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-08
<xhhux> hello
<xhhux> is anyone there?
<quesh-i> hello
<DPic> Hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-09
<hostagexandox> hello
<DPic> here for the marketing team meeting?
<hostagexandox> yeah
<DPic> awesome, anyone else arrived yet? we'll wait a few more minutes
<hostagexandox> haven't been involved before so i may not say much...
<DPic> no problem, but please don't hold back if you ever have an idea
<DPic> how did you hear about this meeting?
<hostagexandox> basically i googled "ubuntu marketing"
<DPic> oh haha cool
<DPic> are you already involved in a LoCo?
<hostagexandox> well there's only one for the entire contry of australia that i know if
<hostagexandox> *pf
<hostagexandox> *of
<DPic> are you in it?
<hostagexandox> yeah
<DPic> cool
<DPic> i have no idea where everyone is. a reminder was sent out and everything
<tyche> I am here
<DPic> ah, great
<DPic> hello
<beuno> and here  :)
<tyche> So?  Where is everyone?
<beuno> let me try something...
<DPic> ooh they're popping up like daisies in the spring!
<beuno> jenda?  :)
<DPic> tyche: late, i guess
<tyche> johnc4510 may not make it.  Family problems.
<beuno> where there topics proposed for the meeting?
<DPic> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2008-04-08
<beuno> not much there  :)
<beuno> the main idea behind these meetings is getting the team rolling again, right?
<DPic> beuno: that's correct
<beuno> I'm sorry I missed the previous meetings
<DPic> beuno: no problem. glad to have you here now :)
<beuno> IMHO, _the_ problem currently is that the team doesn't have a very well layed out purpose
<DPic> i think it does
<beuno> and the team lead is MIA
<beuno> (Corey)
<DPic> i've sort have been taking care of things lately
<beuno> DPic, I've seen, and I'm glad you have
<DPic> i think we just need more delegates from locos
<DPic> we need to get more loco's involved so i was going to send out meeting alerts to the loco-contacts list
<beuno> DPic, I think that to get the team active again we need 3 things:
<DPic> about out teams purpose, i think i outlined it pretty well on the wiki
<DPic> our*
<beuno> 1) Outline who we're aiming at. Canonical does a lot of marketing, and it doesn't make sense to overlap with them
<beuno> 2) Draw up very specific tasks and objectives and have people actively pursue them
<beuno> 3) Have a nice talk with the Canonical folks so we can find a way to work together
<DPic> The first and primary mission of the Ubuntu Marketing Team is to resolve  Bug #1 - We work to market Ubuntu to more people. We are the central marketing hub to provide resources and materials for individuals and LoCo teams. We coordinate and organize marketing efforts across teams around the world.
<DPic> --from the wiki
<beuno> DPic, right, but that's a bit too broad, as we don't, for example, but advertisement in billboards
<beuno> as an example
<beuno> it should be discussed
<beuno> but I believe the team should be the main coordinator for all marketing material, and coordinate LoCos to pass on information
<DPic> well i envisioned us as organizing marketing effots like projects and campaigns
<DPic> beuno: yes, that's one of the main jobs of the team
<beuno> I think we have previously failed in reaching out to the LoCos
<beuno> and organizing the currently available marketing material
<beuno> in part, due to tecnical limitations on where and how to store it
<DPic> it was mroe of a free for all before where people organized their own independent projects
<DPic> there's now a materials page and resources page on out wiki
<beuno> right, and it worked pretty well for a while
<DPic> for a while? they're fairly new
<beuno> DPic, what is?
<DPic> the materials and resources pages on the wiki
<beuno> DPic, the page is, not the material
<DPic> yeah
<DPic> with the exception of the hardy flyer
<beuno> ah, right
<beuno> I also think we should finish separating the -news team
<DPic> i've requested a forum for us so we'll need a moderator
<beuno> and coordinate both teams as to be as effective as possible
<DPic> anyone here think they would be up for the job?
<DPic> the -news team?
<beuno> DPic, yes, UWN, Fridge, Full Circle, etc
<beuno> those are virtually split up into a new team
<DPic> oh yeah it would make sense for them to have their own team
<beuno> who's objective is to inform the community at large
<beuno> they used to be part of -marketing
<DPic> yeah
<tyche> And wouldn't the CC need to pass on the change?
<DPic> would they?
<beuno> tyche, not really, no. We've discussed it to death already, and even have a mailing list/channel/group
<DPic> i don't think so
<beuno> hello cody-somerville  :)
<DPic> i can fix up the new team wiki
<beuno> anyway, cody-somerville was in -marketing way before me, so he might have some insight too
<tyche> What would a moderator have to do?
 * cody-somerville wonders what we're discussing.
 * cody-somerville apologizes for coming in late.
<DPic> cody-somerville: no problem
<beuno> cody-somerville, mainly, how to get the team back up and running
<cody-somerville> Ooo... Excellent :)
<DPic> i think just asking for at least one person from each loco would be great
<beuno> for which I tried to describe why I thought it slowly died away
<cody-somerville> I was having a discussion about this just the other day with Persia.
<beuno> cody-somerville, and I proposed:
<beuno> 1) Outline who we're aiming at. Canonical does a lot of marketing, and it doesn't make sense to overlap with them
<beuno> 2) Draw up very specific tasks and objectives and have people actively pursue them
<beuno> 3) Have a nice talk with the Canonical folks so we can find a way to work together
 * cody-somerville nods.
<DPic> i like out independence from canonical
<cody-somerville> Who is the current team lead?
<beuno> cody-somerville, Corey, which is MIA
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> So besides Corey, is there anyone everyone would feel comfortable with leading the project?
 * beuno thinks it over
 * cody-somerville wonders if beuno should nominate himself :)
<DPic> lol everyone nominates themself
 * DPic was thinking the same thing
 * beuno wonders if he will have the time/energy
<beuno> cody-somerville, I think we should drag Corey into a meeting and/or email thread about this first
<DPic> beuno: that would probably be the best idea
<cody-somerville> beuno, What would be the purpose of that dialogue?
<cody-somerville>  /goal
<beuno> cody-somerville, to get some of his insight on the issue, and to not step over him rudly  :)
<DPic> ask him whether he will continue to lead the team
<cody-somerville> Oh, trust me, Corey is burnt out and has admitted it several times.
<cody-somerville> Although I don't think we need to "pick" a leader today, I think we do need to identify the core contributors and ask them to champion this revival.
<beuno> cody-somerville, I do, and I know, it just seems like he should be included in this, unless he explicitly doesn't want to
<DPic> do we really need a leader? i have myself as a contact on the contact us page
<DPic> beuno: you may add yourself as well if you like
<cody-somerville> Well, I'm currently an administrator of the team myself but as you know I'm pretty tied up with Xubuntu.
<beuno> DPic, I'm not sure yet, and, on the other hand, you have been actively pushing this when all I've done is drop into this meeting  :)
<cody-somerville> However, I think we have enough "authority" at this meeting to make some moving forward decisions :)
<DPic> cody-somerville: agreed
<DPic> i'll work on setting up the NewsTeam and also to get more teams involved with us
 * cody-somerville nods.
<DPic> does anybody have any ideas for hardy or should we move on to discussion about our next project?
<beuno> I'd personally like to have a nice conversation with some of the Canonical folks to see how we can work *together*, and I'm willing to poke the right people to get that going
<beuno> DPic, boredandblogging is heading that up, so talk to him first please
<DPic> heading what up?
<beuno> the -news team
<DPic> oh okay i'll talk to him then
<cody-somerville> beuno, Is there a contact page to show who is responsible currently for what?
<beuno> or, at the very least, UWN, which is the biggest burden
<DPic> what would canonical provide for us?
<beuno> cody-somerville, not really, it never got formalised due to lack of interest in -marketing
<beuno> DPic, I don't know, I just want to make sure we get in sync, as opposed to what used to happen
<DPic> i personally don't think we need acnonical but it sure wouldn't hurt to get in contact with them
<beuno> it might be what can *we* do for *them*, which, benefits all of us in the end
<beuno> DPic, it's not about needing, it's about coordinating
<DPic> i see
<DPic> would you be able to contact them?
<beuno> they have marketing campaigns going, and we duplicate a lot of effort if we overlap
<beuno> DPic, I have half a draft already, I talked to Gerry in london a month or so ago about it
<beuno> (that's a yes)
<cody-somerville> I think one of the best ways we could help market Ubuntu is by producing material to help DIY marketers.
<cody-somerville> We constantly get requests for slideshows and the what not
<DPic> cody-somerville: that's the purpose of our materials page
<beuno> cody-somerville, yes, and, if we lack people to do so, just gather whatever is around and get it on one place, translated, and publisize where it is
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> It seems we need what I'm currently working on for Xubuntu
<cody-somerville> A strategy document
<beuno> cody-somerville, do you remember the DIY website?  That would of been what we're wanting today
<DPic> what kind of strategy do we need?
 * cody-somerville nods at beuno 
<beuno> cody-somerville, that would be #1 on the list for me today
<cody-somerville> Lets ask ourselves some questions.
<cody-somerville> What is our primary goal?
<cody-somerville> What do we want to accomplish?
<cody-somerville> Where do we want to market Ubuntu?
<cody-somerville> Why do we want to market Ubuntu?
<cody-somerville> When do we want to market Ubuntu?
<beuno> I believe we don't actually want to market anything ourselves, that would be the LoCos job, as they have a much better reach then we ever will. We should be the support structure for them to easily market Ubuntu
<cody-somerville> Does everyone agree with that statement?
<beuno> so, besides providing enough material, we should also coordinate project-wide efforts
<DPic> i think the statement on out wiki covers this
<tyche> Education would be helpful, too
<cody-somerville> Okay, so it seems like we've already developed a strong sense of what we want to do.
<cody-somerville> So, how do we do that - specifically?
<hostagexandox> having a "Mission Statement" is one thing
<DPic> well i said i'd get more people involved from other loco's
<DPic> that wil mean we'll have more people to work with
<DPic> more stuff getting on out materials page
<DPic> and more of those materials being used
<DPic> etc.
<beuno> IMHO, setup some system to add/search for marketing content easily (DIY Website), and setup a procedure con how to promote specific efforts around the community
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> Okay, so lets agree that the current project priorities are:
<cody-somerville> 1) Create a DIY website
<tyche> One limitation I've run into is posting something to a forum, etc.
<cody-somerville> 2) Develop clear documentation/procedures on how LoCo Teams can market Ubuntu effectively
<cody-somerville> 3) Promote the Ubuntu Marketing team to get more people involved.
<DPic> cody-somerville: have you seen the LoCoActivism pages i created?
<tyche> Sub head to #3 is to tell them how they can contribute.
<cody-somerville> DPic, I haven't. Link?
<DPic> they mostly aren't marketing but they have some useful stuff
<DPic> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoActivism
<cody-somerville> LoCoActivisim seems to be the marketing team
<cody-somerville> It pretty much covers point 2 from what I can see.
<beuno> I agree that 1/2/3 sums it up
<DPic> what do you all think of this idea? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Projects/DigitalFreedomFlicks
<cody-somerville> DPic, I dunno if it is in the scope of the Ubuntu Marketing Team at this time.
<cody-somerville> It seems we have a hard enough time maintaining the core projects.
<DPic> okay it seems like it would be a difficult project
<DPic> well, i was thinking we could start a campaign to get ubuntu sold in stored
<DPic> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Campaigns/UbuntuInStores
<DPic> and this was a blog post i was working on for it http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=ajdqhbdzgsdj_1002d86b2kc7
<cody-somerville> Ok, lets drop the current projects listed except for Spread Ubuntu
<DPic> would SpreadUbuntu be out DIY website?
<DPic> our*
<cody-somerville> Yes
<beuno> DPic, no
<beuno> :p
<beuno> bah
<beuno> could be
<beuno> wasn't the original idea, but I suppose we should merge those projects
<DPic> seems like it would make more sense if we merged them
<beuno> DIY was suppose to be a part of spreadubuntu
<beuno> so DIY was the first step
<cody-somerville> "website to provide resources for grassroots advocacy"
<beuno> and spreadubuntu had a much larger aim
<DPic> i see
<cody-somerville> Okay. Understood.
<DPic> well i'd like to see a site that could be used for any free software project and to promote free software in general
<cody-somerville> That would be nice but out of our scope.
<tyche> I think that's further on down the road
<beuno> we wanted to emulate what spreadfirefox had done
<DPic> well i don't think it would hurt to start it with that aim even if all of our content is ubuntu in the beginning
<beuno> DPic, agreed
<DPic> so could we think of a name that would encompass more than just ubuntu?
<DPic> i've always liked the term "digital freedom"
<beuno> DPic, I'd rather not get in that deep
<cody-somerville> I'm sure we could make the source code available
<cody-somerville> and it wouldn't be hard to hard to link to other installations in the future
<cody-somerville> However, we need to set appropriate goals that are obtainable in our _current_ situation.
 * beuno has to run  :(
<DPic> beuno: alright, thanks so much for coming!
<cody-somerville> I need to go to bed as well
<cody-somerville> However, I think we've made progress
<DPic> yes
<beuno> me too, we should ping Corey and have a new meeting
<DPic> this was a good meeting
<cody-somerville> We've all agreed that getting more user contributed content is important and that we need to make it easier to do just that.
<DPic> yeah
<L1pe> :( and I missedi it. I couldn't get here erlier
<beuno> cody-somerville, yeap, absolutely
<cody-somerville> Once we get this one big project taken care (DIY), we can then decide on our next big project (maybe some sort of campaign).
<DPic> i think we can handle a letter writing campaign
<cody-somerville> DPic, Excellent idea :)
<DPic> i'd appreciate some people's feedback on my blog postt before i publish it though
<cody-somerville> So I assume someone that isn't going to bed can take care of updating the wiki, posting the logs and minutes, etc. etc.?
<L1pe> that's me
<beuno> DPic, if you email me the draft, I'll take a look at it in a few hours
<L1pe> cody-somerville: before you wake up, at least.
<cody-somerville> L1pe, :)
<cody-somerville> thanks
<tyche> FYI, -news site is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewsTeam
<L1pe> cody-somerville:  np, I would have like to come later and take part of the meeting, but i couldn't.
<L1pe> *erlier
<DPic> beuno: where can i find you email?
<beuno> DPic, beuno@ubuntu.com
<DPic> sent
<beuno> DPic, I'll look now then
<L1pe> well, is meeting over?
<DPic> if nobody has anything to add
<DPic> any last thoughts?
<L1pe> just to close the log :)
<DPic> - meeting adjourned -
<L1pe> k
<L1pe> I will perform my duties in a coupel of hours :)
<DPic> L1pe: i'll copy the log over since you got here late
<beuno> DPic, the draft looks awesome :)
<beuno> I'd punch in a mention on how Photoshop CS3 worhs with wine nowadays
<beuno> as it's a _major_ step forward for many people
<beuno> but the rest looks great
<DPic> is the ending compelling enough to get people involved?
<beuno> DPic, yes, I think so. I'd also add "support companies who currently offer Ubuntu"
<beuno> ya' know, encourage em to keep on investing
<DPic> like who?
<beuno> Dell, System76, anyone else I can't think of  :)
<beuno> anyway, I'm off for now
<beuno> but feel free to ping me/email for anything I can help you with  :)
<pleaseandthankyo> is there a good diet softwares? like for a diabetes guy or a healthy living diet software for person who has heart d eases?
<lifeless> ask in #ubuntu please
 * ogra_cmpc yawns 
<bryce> heya ogra
 * asac waves
<ogra_cmpc> hey hey
<asac> hi all
 * slangasek moos
<evand> hi
 * ArneGoetje wipes sweat off his forehead
<TheMuso> Greetings.
 * TheMuso looks out the window at possibly more rain.
 * evand looks out the window into darkness.
<Hobbsee> ah yes, that's why i should leave soonish.
 * Hobbsee sees fire out the window.
<evand> fire?
<Hobbsee> at least, i wish i did.  It would make things more interesting.
<doko> good morning
<evand> haha
<Hobbsee> morning doko
 * Hobbsee has done more bug squishing.
<james_w> morning all
 * ogra_cmpc has done less sleeping
<bryce> Hobbsee: I was going to say, do you live in los angeles or something?
 * bryce waves to all
<Hobbsee> bryce: not unless i've moved continents without noticing, no...
<Hobbsee> and in the unlikely event of that, id' prefer to see Europe, not the US.
<bryce> Hobbsee: not much fire out the window in Europe, but in the US we have either the damnation and brimstone kind on the right coast, or the torching your SUV kind on the left
 * slangasek hehs
<doko> hmm, am I 1h too early?
<slangasek> I don't think so... :)
<ogra_cmpc> doko, i think colin slept in :)
<slangasek> well, let's make use of the time, eh?  How's everybody's hardy bugs doing? :)
<ArneGoetje> maybe he forgot to switch DST on... :D
<slangasek> don't think so, it's the second week of DST for him :)
<Hobbsee> bryce: tasty.
<james_w> ooh, I've got one for ya.
<ogra_cmpc> he was around until 2am (whichis 6h ago)
<evand> things look OK, though I have a fair amount that I need to get done later today to be happy going into FinalFreeze.
<james_w> bug 153625
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153625 in ca-certificates "update-ca-certificates error. ca-certificates.crt empty (with pt_BR locale)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153625
<slangasek> james_w: "for us"?  Are we still not done with that? :)
<james_w> pitti was helping with me with it, but as he is away collaborating this week he asked me to find another sponsor.
<james_w> slangasek: I wish we were.
<bryce> I put prev/next buttons on http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Xorg/status_current.html, and flipping through the pages, things are definitely going in the right direction for X, but still a few more left to go
 * bryce is very thankful for actively involved community members
<TheMuso> Still got users with pulseaudio issues... Tracking svn to see if there any more useful fixes we may want, and going to see what is being done for fedora 9.
<asac> TheMuso: firefox + flash-nonfree crashes frequently because of this pulseaudio thing. i suspect that its related to libflashsupport.
<asac> maybe there is a libflashsupport update? or fedora has patches?
<TheMuso> asac: Yeah possibly...
<asac> TheMuso: without pulseaudio it works great - which is why i never noticed it
<TheMuso> asac: I'll have a look later. I'll add it to my TODO list.
<ogra_cmpc> asac, libflashsupport is only needed for networked connections
<TheMuso> ogra_cmpc: How so?
<ogra_cmpc> pulse works fine without it if you run it locally
<asac> ogra_cmpc: without libflashsupport sound doesn't work ... at least that was reported before someone added it as hard dependency
<ogra_cmpc> its a workaround for a bug where pulse leaves filehandles open on networked connections that have an alsa endpoint
<ArneGoetje> asac: got my message about flash and scim?
<asac> ArneGoetje: yeah.
<asac> ArneGoetje: so the free implementations don't work?
<ArneGoetje> asac: correct
<ogra_cmpc> (have qa look at  the package description, i linked the bug in it)
<ArneGoetje> asac: and I suspect that's not a scim problem.
<asac> ogra_cmpc: ogra_cmpc what does "networked connections" meanin this context?
<ogra_cmpc> asac, non local :)
<asac> ogra_cmpc: i understand what networked means ;)
<ogra_cmpc> at least thats how i learned about libflashsupport two releases ago ... we should at least run a test without it, i dont think it does anything useful on local connections
<cjwatson> ugh, apologies I'm late - the alarm clock said it was 6:55 :-/
<cjwatson> thanks for starting without me
 * ogra_cmpc had his mobile ready to call at :30
<james_w> hi cjwatson
<bryce> heya cjwatson
<asac> hi cjwatson
<cjwatson> james_w: ouch at 153625 still being active
<james_w> cjwatson: yep, every time I touch it it seems to get worse, so I'm going to stop poking it so much.
<cjwatson> oh, just the double question thing
<cjwatson> I think you're doing fine
<ogra_cmpc> asac, my prob  is that i never tried it outside of ltsp befiore hardy and someone pulled it in as a dep because we use it in ltsp ... but i'm really not sure its relevant if pulse isnt running on localhost
<asac> ouch
<ogra_cmpc> s/isnt/is/
<asac> ogra_cmpc: well ... i had several complains before it was a dep that sound didn't work without it
<cjwatson> on my side, there are still quite a few installer bugs on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs which I've been trying to attack
<ogra_cmpc> asac, well, if you can relate it to that then i think its fine ...
<ogra_cmpc> (i dont think it does any harm either, it just closes stale filehandles )
<asac> ogra_cmpc: it caues frequent crashes
<asac> ogra_cmpc: just go to youtube and play like 10 files
<ogra_cmpc> thast what i'm doing every day to test the classmate
<ogra_cmpc> it doesnt crash here
<TheMuso> asac: I'll try it later and see what I get.
<asac> ogra_cmpc: maybe its a race you don't see on your system ;)
<ogra_cmpc> the OEM team is pretty focused on flash :)
<asac> TheMuso: yeah ... its reported to happen if you hit back while playing and then forward again . do that until you get a crash
<TheMuso> asac: Ok.
<cjwatson> Do we need to install libflashsupport by default?
<asac> thats the question
<TheMuso> I think its only used for flash-nonfree.
<cjwatson> or is it the converse, that things get worse when it *is* installed?
<asac> yeah ... its not installed by default, but its installed whenever you install flashplugin-nonfree
<ogra_cmpc> cjwatson, thast what we're discussing
<TheMuso> The only way we'll really know is to play something through pulse while using flash without libflashsupport
<cjwatson> ah, right, I'd missed the rdepends
<asac> TheMuso: right. thats the use case that was broken before libflashsupport
<TheMuso> asac: Right.
<ogra_cmpc> the question is, do we *need* to route flash through pulse at all
<TheMuso> ogra_cmpc: If users are playing music and want to play a flash game for example, yes.
<ogra_cmpc> alsa should handle it directly just fine
<TheMuso> ogra_cmpc: Unless pulse is busy doing something with the alsa device.
<TheMuso> And, pulse talks directly to the hardware, and not through dmix.
<asac> ogra_cmpc: then why do we need pulse? :)
<ogra_cmpc> TheMuso, i thought we have the dmix backend active anyway
<TheMuso> ogra_cmpc: No. Pulse uses hal to detect sound devices, then interfaces with them directly.
<ogra_cmpc> asac, for the ding and doing sounds of your desktop
<ogra_cmpc> right, but pulse is also able to use dmix in the backend
<TheMuso> ogra_cmpc: Yes, but not if you use the hal module, which requires manual configuration.
<ogra_cmpc> meh
<TheMuso> This is also why some sound cards don't work with pulse. Either because they use a different sample format to what pulse uses, or they have non-standard mixer element n ames.
<ogra_cmpc> asac, pulse is there because the libgnome devs dont manage to get a gestreamer backend working for libgnome
<ogra_cmpc> thats the only real reason for it
<asac> ogra_cmpc: damn. and now everyone has to suffer :/
<ogra_cmpc> there were patches for libgnome->gstreamer ... i have no idea what they decided for pulse
<TheMuso> ogra_cmpc: Pulse is much more useful than that, but it still has teething problems.
<ogra_cmpc> s/what/why
<asac> actually until pulse appeared i thought that sound servers were scheduled to die :/
<TheMuso> ogra_cmpc: GNOME still doesn't use pulse directly. It uses the esound compatibility layer.
<ogra_cmpc> TheMuso, it does a job most soundcards can do themselves ...
<TheMuso> ogra_cmpc: Correctino, it does a job that dmix does. Most sound cards can't play more than one sample stream simultaneously.
<TheMuso> correction
<TheMuso> Anyway, we're getting OT.
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<asac> yeah ... -> -devel
<cjwatson> Right; are there any other fires people would like to point out in terms of Hardy bug-fixing at the moment?
<asac> anyway, i think we should consider to drop libflashsupport from depends of flashplugin-nonfree
<ogra_cmpc> make it a recommends
<TheMuso> Is the config file prompt with bash-completion on upgrades known about?
<asac> ogra_cmpc: suggests ;)
<ogra_cmpc> or that :)
 * TheMuso checks for a bug.
<cjwatson> damn, I just noticed that but assumed that I had actually edited the file and forgotten about it
<slangasek> TheMuso: sure, bug #210013
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210013 in bash "bash-completion config replacement prompt on upgrade from gutsy to hardy" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210013
<TheMuso> Right.
<slangasek> hmm, currently unassigned; I think I can squeeze that one onto my schedule later this week if need be
<doko> yes, can do this today or tomorrow
<slangasek> doko: ok, I'll assign it to you instead then?
<bryce> cjwatson: kees and I noticed a variety of HAL/USB breakages (cameras, scanners, et al) lately.  Maybe this is already known?
<TheMuso> Well I can reproduce bug 91814, but simply lowering the priority of the question doesn't help, and I don't yet have any ideas at this point... Still looking however.
<doko> but where do we want to put the old file, if the upgrade conflicts?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 91814 in openssl "libssl0.9.8 config asking me 'which services should be restarted to make them use the new lbraries?'" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/91814
<cjwatson> bryce: do you have any references?
<doko> slangasek: I don't care, I'll ping you tonight
<slangasek> doko: I believe the customary procedure, if the user has modified the file before it was transferred to the new package, is to let the conffile prompt happen
<bryce> cjwatson: I've one for the scanner (moment), but am just curious in general if there are widespread USB issues or if I'm just special
<cjwatson> it isn't something I've heard about, but Ubuntu is too big for me to have heard of everything :)
<slangasek> bryce: there've been recent (milestoned) bugs regarding scanner detection and permissions, does that sound familiar?
<cjwatson> pitti might be better-informed in this case
<bryce> slangasek: yep!
<slangasek> yes, pitti's been actively working on scanner-related bugs in hal
<cjwatson> the scanner group was taken out of the system at installation time
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> as in, we used to add the user to the scanner group, but don't any more
<slangasek> in favor of polkit
<bryce> here we go, bug #211569
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 211569 in hal "xsane won't start unless run as root (Epson Perfection 1240)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211569
<cjwatson> if it's too hard to fix the rest of the system, we could revert that
<cjwatson> though it would need a release note at least
<cjwatson> (for upgrades from beta)
<slangasek> this may fall into the realm of bugs we can't get all the feedback we need in time for release
<cjwatson> that bug was filed from an upgraded system
<cjwatson> so surely the scanner group would still have been there
<slangasek> because of the need to identify individual USB IDs that need to be added
<slangasek> cjwatson: scanner group is still there, but is no longer used for setting the device ownership, so...
<bryce> I just ran as root and got my tax forms scanned and all is good.  but it surprised me to have that issue.  then I saw my camera also didn't work (which has _always_ worked with ubuntu), which made me think it might be worth bringing up.
<cjwatson> right, I was just referring to the installer change
<cjwatson> perhaps other people could check whether their cameras still work? I should check mine
<TheMuso> I should check my scanner also.
<slangasek> bryce: right, best to discuss this with pitti in the morning (since I believe he's still on US/Central time)
<cjwatson> I'll flag it with Keybuk to make sure he's aware
 * bryce nods
<cjwatson> I agree that releasing with busted scanning and camera support would be pretty embarrassing
<cjwatson> ok, before we finish, I sent out a link to https://wiki.canonical.com/DistroTeam/Platform/8.10, which has a few general preliminary themes for the 8.10 UDS, and various other bits and pieces I'd like to get cleared up
<cjwatson> Jorge is going to be contacting participants soon with a summary of the issues we plan to raise, and something akin to a call for papers
<cjwatson> Does anyone have anything else substantial that they'd like to put on that list from the start?
<TheMuso> I've been pondering doing an a11y review of all our desktop tools, but not sure if it could be done in a cycle...
<TheMuso> As in all the tools we've added/written.
<doko> dropping i486 & i586 support
<cjwatson> TheMuso: happy to start somewhere
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Yeah, likely theres not much to be done, but I think it could do us no harm.
<evand> ubiquity visual refresh? (artwork and slideshow), more work towards finishing the espresso spec.
<TheMuso> And theres also changing speech backend for orca, but I don't think thats big/important enough for that page. I will be specing that in any case.
<cjwatson> oh, I should say a brief word on how we're doing scheduling for the next UDS
<cjwatson> to avoid all the general confusion around it, we aren't going to be using the auto-scheduler
<cjwatson> we will have manually scheduled tracks, as we did the last time
<cjwatson> we will also have a few rooms (I think 2-4 depending on the day) which will be available for whiteboard scheduling
<cjwatson> a bit like FOSSCamp last time
<cjwatson> of course the output should still be recorded in Launchpad, and it does no harm to register a spec in advance in order to set the scope of the discussion you want to have
<doko> I'll put python3 on this list, hopefully getting more than one person in this room ...
<cjwatson> I'd be interested to know what its performance characteristics are like
<doko> not worse than 2.x
<cjwatson> ok, thanks, I've added the above to the list
<cjwatson> and it's time
<cjwatson> sorry again I was late, and thanks all
<TheMuso> thanks.
<doko> ahh, and maybe the whole security related toolchain stuff, but I'll have to talk with infinity
<ogra_cmpc> thanks
<asac> thanks!
<evand> thanks
<james_w> thanks all.
<cjwatson> doko: things like PIE you mean?
<doko> cjwatson: yes, coming with a 10% performance penalty
<slangasek> thanks!
<bryce> thanks
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<Keybuk> cjwatson: hmm?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: cameras and scanners permissions should be handled by HAL now
<Keybuk> it'll add ACLs for users based on a PolicyKit that says users on active console sessions (ConsoleKit) get permission
<slangasek> Keybuk: yes, but currently it doesn't correctly detect all scanners, and evidently there may be issues with some cameras as well
<slangasek> looks like bug #195782 is marked as fixed, so at least HP multifunction scanners are supposed to work now
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 195782 in hplip "Users not automatically added to "scanner" group: No scanning functions of HP multi-function in Hardy" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195782
<slangasek> but bryce mentioned bug #211569, which is an Epson...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 211569 in hal "xsane won't start unless run as root (Epson Perfection 1240)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211569
<Keybuk> slangasek: it detects the list of scanners that sane knows about?
<Keybuk> we've *ALWAYS* had a huge list of scanners that didn't work
<Keybuk> the new stuff fixes multi-function at least, since it can have ACLs for both the scanner and printer bits -- instead of needing to be simultaneously in the scanner and printer groups :p
<Keybuk> pitti is the man to speak to, anyway
 * slangasek nods
<Keybuk> another reason for the HAL switch, other than fixing multi-function and it's just the right way
<Keybuk> is that udev matching libusb devices is hard now
<Keybuk> since depending which kernel you're running, you need different rules
<Keybuk> so it's very hard to have a huge list of matches that work with multiple kernel versions
<Keybuk> whereas HAL just handled that opaquely
<RichEd> education meeting starts in 2 mins ... get your coffee now !
<ogra_cmpc> moo
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: What's the name of the option when you insert the Add-on CD to start g-a-i ?
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: I'm working on the testcase for RC/Final and don't have the add-on CD around
<ogra_cmpc> instal extensions or so
<ogra_cmpc> i'm just rsyncing mine
<RichEd> stgraber: you put a link up the other day re italc in #edubuntu ... lost it due to local power failures
<RichEd> can you pop it up again if it is still relevant
<stgraber> https://edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-italc-devel/+archive
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: regarding the chat earlier about specs for UDS ... and the moving of many of our "education needs" across into the server team ...
<stgraber> iTalc using the avahi launcher so you don't need to manually add the computers. Note that the key transfer is still required though
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<ogra_cmpc> we should have a spec for the key stuff
<RichEd> how do we handle how do we handle requests from our target audience that fall into that category ?
<ogra_cmpc> to develop a small gui or so
<stgraber> indeed, a key transfer UI would be great
<ogra_cmpc> anyway, background:
<ogra_cmpc> my duties are education only now
<RichEd> do we make a request to the other team(s) ? and manage our target audience expectations and keep them informed ?
<ogra_cmpc> that limits my work to be not ltsp,network auth or so ...
<ogra_cmpc> i.e. plain edu stuff
<RichEd> yep ... noted ... but we are still the interface to our target audience ...
<ogra_cmpc> the things i can come up with as specs here are edubuntu-menus and enhancing italc
<RichEd> just saying ... oh that is not our department is perhaps not the best way to win them over ...
<RichEd> :)
<ogra_cmpc> so i need input from the community side on more
<ogra_cmpc> no, indeed, my job is also to provide a communication path
<RichEd> so i know you will not do the work on server stuff ... but should we not still be the interface to "our people"
<RichEd> no answer needed now, but as we get a request that falls into that sort of hand-over, let's come up with a way to manage that communication
<ogra_cmpc> we (me) should be the interface to get an initial connection up
<ogra_cmpc> but working will be more effective for the server team if they communicate directly
<RichEd> some quick education news snippets for those who are interested:
<RichEd> http://education.zdnet.com/?p=1615
<ogra_cmpc> so aqll i will do is give guidance and if people need it i'll handhold them
<RichEd> "9000 computers in Swiss schools have been dual-booting Windows and and Ubuntu for some time now in anticipation of guidelines from the Switzerlandâs Department of Public Instruction, whose motto is âLong Live Free Software.â"
<RichEd> "Beginning this September, all 9000 computers will run only Ubuntu and free and open source software. "
<RichEd> ---
<ogra_cmpc> stgraber, so any idea for some sweet edu specs ?
<ogra_cmpc> (dont worry that i wont have enough to work on though, my job has lots of new duties nowadays :) )
<stgraber> hmm, not a lot being non-ltsp related. iTalc of course will need improvement as it'll be used not only on LTSP setups
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<stgraber> I'm looking forward to the plugin system it will get soon (according to upstream)
<stgraber> so we will be able to increated things like avahi or LDAP easily inside iTalc itself
<ogra_cmpc> nice :)
<stgraber> I'll probably be a bit more busy than I currently am during the end of this school year, final exams and stuff like that (also the reason why I can't stay for UDS)
<RichEd> hey pips1 :)
<stgraber> hi pips1
<pips1> hi
<RichEd> hows the offspring ??
<pips1> he is very well, thanks :-)
<RichEd> pips1: see ^ http://education.zdnet.com/?p=1615
<pips1> first tooth
<RichEd> wow ... that's early ... hope he is not niggling & keeping you up at night
<pips1> *click*
<pips1> he is niggling a bit, but not much, he is such a nice fella
<RichEd> pips1: current topic f.y.i. -> propose specs for UDS
<RichEd> suggestions ?
<pips1> re 9000 PCs in swiss schools going ubuntu... great news !
<RichEd> read the whole article and links ... government mandate to push linux into schools with the view that open source = education
<Hobbsee> take over the world.
<RichEd> not cost saving ... but mindset of a better system
<RichEd> Hobbsee: we already are :)
<Hobbsee> RichEd: any eta?
<Hobbsee> RichEd: (on when it's done)
<RichEd> see this also from zdnet
<RichEd> <RichEd> " However, one thing stands out from all the conversations - the number of people who seem to confuse Ubuntu for Linux.  I can tell because they will either use both terms interchangeably or be using the name Ubuntu in a generic sense.  Moreover, it seems to be confined to Ubuntu.  Iâve not seen the name of another distro used in the same way.
<pips1> I know folks in the government of geneva who are behind this... we did the trip in silicon valley together, after the ubuntu developer summit in seville...
<RichEd> ^ http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=1641&tag=nl.e622
<pips1> the theme of our trip was "open standards"... they said "Last year's tour was also extremely helpful to shape ideas and give a
<pips1> positive push."
<RichEd> pips1: if you can help get a relationship going with them ... that would be great ... we can assist them (like UDS etc.) and they can give us great references and case study
<RichEd> a government level one ... not ground up school by school
<pips1> right
<pips1> sure, I'm happy to make the connection
<pips1> I'll be spending a whole week with one of the two guys in silicon valley again... in may.
<stgraber> let's hope other cantons will follow the learn from Geneva .. for example NeuchÃ¢tel :)
 * ogra_cmpc sent a request for spec input to the ML
<RichEd> pips1: Manuel Grandjean, director of the Media Service Schools <- any knowledge of this chap or his department ?
<pips1> stgraber: fingers crossed :-)
<pips1> RichEd: nope
<RichEd> oh also news re Spain ... the guadalinex development company is pitching for molinux ... and proposing ubuntu
<RichEd> fingers crossed on that one as well
<Hobbsee> any chance you can get their default channel in their irc clients as #ubuntu-es, not #ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> ditto guadalinex.
<ogra_cmpc> Hobbsee, why would we do that while we're just trying to join up all the communities ?
<Hobbsee> ogra_cmpc: that's a serious question?
<ogra_cmpc> yes
<ogra_cmpc> we're working towards exactly the opposite
<ogra_cmpc> (one of the main reasons for edubuntu to become an addon)
<ogra_cmpc> (with the hope that others follow that path for their derivatives)
<Hobbsee> ogra_cmpc: mainly, because they come in, say 'ola', don't speak english much, demand that we speak spanish instead, and then, once we do get spanish translators, they ask for people's msn addresses to chat.
<Hobbsee> ogra_cmpc: #ubuntu is an english support channel.
<Hobbsee> it's *not* a multilanguage channel, and I hope it never will be - it's too big as it is.
<ogra_cmpc> Hobbsee, guadalinex users are in the majority kids ...
<Hobbsee> ogra_cmpc: i've got no problem with that, i'm just saying that the default channel choice for it is therefore unsuitable, and if you've got contacts in that area, it would be great to get it changed.
<ogra_cmpc> so indeed they behave a little "younger"
<stgraber> Hobbsee: an idea would be to have the language-switcher tool change the default IRC channel (if the user has never started xchat)
<stgraber> Hobbsee: not sure how easy that's though (you'd need a list of active support channel for each languages)
<Hobbsee> stgraber: yeah.  that has been thought about, but no one's implemented it in current state.
<ogra_cmpc> right
<ogra_cmpc> we lack the infrastructure atm for such automation
<Hobbsee> ogra_cmpc: again, i've got absolutely no problem with the age of the people - it's just that they're speaking spanish, offtopic stuff, in an english, support-only channel.
<ogra_cmpc> Hobbsee, and how do you distinguish them from "other" ubuntu users ?
<ogra_cmpc> (how do ypou know its only guadalinex users)
<ogra_cmpc> we're massively offtopic btw :)
<Hobbsee> ogra_cmpc: all from the same subnet.  whois says that it's in spain, and there are various articles about guadalinex's uptake in internet cafe's, etc, in spain.
<Hobbsee> ogra_cmpc: therefore, it's *likely* to be guadalinex.
<ogra_cmpc> well, guessing on IP range or newspapaers isnt really accurate
<Hobbsee> ogra_cmpc: and the 'ola' with no english words after that kinda gives it away...
<ogra_cmpc> i think its simply a general spoanish habit
<RichEd> respectfully agree with ogra_cmpc that we are off topic ...
<Hobbsee> then we'll just forward that entire subnet to -es from our side.  Thanks for your help.
<RichEd> can we save this for later ?
<Hobbsee> RichEd: apologies.
<RichEd> spec's discussion first
<RichEd> Hobbsee: no problem :)
<RichEd> also we do not have much control over the ubuntu set-up ... so your request straight to ubuntu peops may be more effective
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc now builds an add on on top of the ubuntu base
<RichEd> so we're the education desktop only
<ogra_cmpc> s/control over the ubuntu set-up/control over the guadalinex set-up/ i guess
<ogra_cmpc> oh, thats what you mean
<RichEd> and cjwatson manages the relationship with guadalinex and other derivatives
<RichEd> :)
 * Hobbsee scratches head over how changing it for ubuntu, not guadalinex, will solve the problem.
<Hobbsee> right, OK.
<ogra_cmpc> well, i see the point Hobbsee has and its fixable in ubuntu (totally not edu related though and just pointiong at guadalinex is wrong here as well)
<ogra_cmpc> generally i agree with her :)
<RichEd> Hobbsee: guadalinex take ubuntu and add on to that ... not edubuntu ...
<RichEd> besides off the record ... most of the schools in andalucia run ubuntu native on their desktops
<ogra_cmpc> same goes for other parts of spain
<RichEd> the guadalinex is deployed more in libraries / public access kiosks / pensioner portals etc.
<nixternal> well well well
<RichEd> govt civic responsibility
<nixternal> I woke up early and look what I see :)
<Hobbsee> RichEd: right, i was unaware.
<stgraber> hi nixternal
<nixternal> howdy
<RichEd> Hobbsee: that point is not good to bandy about due to political sensitivities ... but f.y.i.
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd, so any spec suggestions from the marketing side we should put down ?
<RichEd> mr nixternal sir ... how's the ubuntu bible ?
<nixternal> done!
<ogra_cmpc> \o?
<ogra_cmpc> err
<ogra_cmpc> \o/
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: i'll scratch around and see what i can come up with ... there are some people i can query
<ogra_cmpc> good
<nixternal> next edition is getting a rewrite with possibly separating LTSP into its own chapter
<ogra_cmpc> lets see what i get as return fro the ML request
<RichEd> \o? <- looks like ogra_cmpc holding up a hand to ask a question and scratching his head
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<ogra_cmpc> nixternal, that would be great, ltsp really needs to be a separate chapter in the future
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: can we consider "new processes for education requests" as a spec for discussion ?
<ogra_cmpc> oh, before i forget RichEd can you extend my edubuntu-members membership ?
<RichEd> like how users submit & and how we manage requests for new s/w package inclusion ?
<ogra_cmpc> it runs out tomorrow and even though i'm admin i seem not to be able to extend it for myself
<RichEd> i know we have processes ... but we need a "follow the yellow footsteps" level for edu people who are non-tech and busy teachers
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd, brqainstorm.ubuntu.com  covers a lot of that
<ogra_cmpc> brainstorm.ubuntu.com
 * RichEd will check ...
<ogra_cmpc> not sure how moch wee need extra
<stgraber> oh, hang on a sec I have a page with some ideas from brainstorm
<cjwatson> I do need to get top-level education requests in quite soon, so that we can integrate them into the tracks
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid/Brainstorm
<ogra_cmpc> cjwatson, RichEd is aware of the timeframe i gave you
<stgraber> hmm, it seems to be mainly marketing stuff though
<ogra_cmpc> weekend is deadline for the initial list
<RichEd> cjwatson: yep ... we're aware ... i'll propose some generic topics that can be refined if we do not have detail by monday
<ogra_cmpc> "Encourage Ubuntu preloads in university computer stores "
<RichEd> many of the things from my side will be user process related ... not dev specs
 * ogra_cmpc wonders what exactly that shal mean
<cjwatson> right, which is fine
<RichEd> there are existing dev processes to handle requirements ... we need to get our audience understanding how to get things into that pipeline
<RichEd> like new packages for main inclusion etc.
<RichEd> and what that entails from their side when proposing
<RichEd> one thing sabdfl has been asking for (for a while) is that we build a core group of "teacher test & review & feedback" people
 * ogra_cmpc glares at "Default Screensaver Advertising "
<ogra_cmpc> *shudder*
<RichEd> people who are more teacher than tech ... and who use the s/w for classroom / learner interaction
<RichEd> what they like and do not like ... and what they would love to have
<RichEd> that's a user layer above the usual "how do i authenticate my 100 w/s against XXX and LDAP"
<stgraber> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/category/14 seems mainly marketing or community related, not much software inclusion proposal or tech stuff
<RichEd> sabdfl feels that will win us pull from the educators and not just the push from the admin side
 * RichEd agrees
<ogra_cmpc> "Open Office Extras " seems like something for the addon
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: any ideas on how we can provide easy links to education resources ... that sort of stuff ?
<RichEd> not just as a wiki page link, but somehow direct from the desktop / menu ?
 * ogra_cmpc cant belive http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/106/
<stgraber> RichEd: maybe on the About edubuntu page ?
<ogra_cmpc> we surely dont advertise ltsp enough
<cjwatson> get things into that pipeline> we would like that to be through developer mediation
<cjwatson> brainstorm is the ideal place for this
<ogra_cmpc> about edubuntu and on the edubuntu browser page
<RichEd> stgraber: well we do not want to blur the line between *buntu and external resources ... so i'd say no at first though
<RichEd> *though
<RichEd> *thought
<cjwatson> we don't want to encourage users to write and submit feature specifications directly
<cjwatson> the reason is that feature specifications are detailed software design documents, which fundamentally require development skill and experience to write
<RichEd> more like links to education content & education projects ...
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd, the default browser page is the place
<cjwatson> (this may be obvious; the reason I stress it is that it has not been obvious in the past)
<RichEd> which we have reviewed, but which are not neccessarily associated with or linked to
<ogra_cmpc> not in your face like a first run wizard and not to hidden to miss it
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc & stgraber ... i'm thinking about things that are useful for teachers, and which encourage the teachers to network amongst themselves
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd, having a like wioth "educational suggestions" in there that points to a page on edubuntu.org
<ogra_cmpc> so we're not bound to a release with that
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: yep ... something like that ... and also pointing them to #ubuntu-education
<RichEd> so that when they install, they feel like they are now part of a community of education people with the same needs & goals
<RichEd> which is quite different to the ubuntu community who build s/w
<ogra_cmpc> are there actually people in #ubuntu-education at all ?
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<stgraber> they all are in #edubuntu too :)
<ogra_cmpc> seems not really used
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: it goes up and down, but simonanibal and kgoetz always answer people who pop in there
<ogra_cmpc> what about merging edubuntu and ubuntu-education Z?
<RichEd> the idea there is that it is about topics above the desktop
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: that will happen with the name change ...]
<ogra_cmpc> with a redirect that moves people to #edubuntu
<ogra_cmpc> (since there is actually audience)
<ogra_cmpc> (and knowledge)
<RichEd> which brings me to a spec for 8.10 "what naming & references need to migrate for the Ubuntu Education changes"
<ogra_cmpc> i though that was finalized already
<RichEd> there are many in the desktop, & help ... and the whole edubuntu.org & #edubuntu need to be discussed
 * ogra_cmpc doesnt understand the last sentence
<Hobbsee> RichEd: forwarding channels is simple enough
<ogra_cmpc> oh you mean you want to let edubuntu die compeltely ?
<RichEd> about edubuntu needs to move to about ubuntu education ... as an example ...
<ogra_cmpc> no
<ogra_cmpc> not as long as we install it from the edubuntu-desktop package
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: nope ... we will keep edubuntu and not just walk away from it ...
<ogra_cmpc> right
<ogra_cmpc> so keep its docs as well :)
<RichEd> but we need to discuss all of this ... not make decisions on behalf of the community\
<ogra_cmpc> right
<RichEd> so that's why we need a spec for fair and honest debate
<ogra_cmpc> sounds good
<RichEd> there is potential for confusion ...
<RichEd> the new audiences we reach out to from now on will be exposed to ubuntu education as the "brand"
<ogra_cmpc> i would object to drop the term edubuntu from the actual edubuntu deoumentation as long as we keep it as a desktop
<RichEd> we need to ensure that the edubuntu side is not confusing for them
<stgraber> indeed, the changes that were introduced with Hardy seem to be quite confusing for a lot of people (CD changes being the main problem of course)
<ogra_cmpc> i'm fine adding stuff for an ubuntu-education edition though
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: pro's and cons of both ... we need to debate and consider and propose
<RichEd> hence the need for a spec ... i'll draft and call for comment on a wiki page ...
<ogra_cmpc> even worse is that people read that http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition and try to install ltsp off the server CD sinvce the CD change
<ogra_cmpc> the ltsp statements there urgently need to go
<ogra_cmpc> since it kleaves you with a totally broken setup
<ogra_cmpc> which generates a sh*tload of support
<stgraber> I have to go for 20min or so, just wanted to mention : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/EdubuntuAddOnCD
<stgraber> please fix/update/improve :)
<ogra_cmpc> heno already  mailed me, i'll go over it before the weekend
 * RichEd is back in 5 min ...
<ogra_cmpc> could we adjourn if everybody leaves ?
<Hobbsee> looks like you've only got one channel to forward
<Hobbsee> no others are registered in the edubuntu namespace.
<ogra_cmpc> we dont hav eany to forward atm, that was just a suggestion :)
<ogra_cmpc> i thought there were edubuntu-es and -de
<Hobbsee> if they are, they're not registered, or they're not showing up
<ogra_cmpc> yeah, -de is there
<ogra_cmpc> i think -de wqas registered through the loco team
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: i've got no more issues for today ... so adjourning is fine ...
<RichEd> will renew your membership in a short while
 * ogra_cmpc wonders if RichEd saw his request for extending his edubuntu-members menmbership
<ogra_cmpc> heh, snap
<ogra_cmpc> thanks
<Hobbsee> ogra_cmpc: please turn secret mode off, then.
<RichEd> crackle & pop ... bang the gong when you are ready
<ogra_cmpc> just dont forget it, else i'm no edubuntu member tomorrow
<ogra_cmpc> going once
<ogra_cmpc> going twice
<ogra_cmpc> adjourned
<ogra_cmpc> hah
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Security Team | 11 Apr 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 10 Apr 07:00: Server Team | 11 Apr 06:00: Security Team | 11 Apr 22:00: MOTU | 17 Apr 07:00: Server Team | 24 Apr 07:00: Server Team | 01 May 07:00: Server Team
<Hobbsee> hmm, won't make that MOTU meeting.
<zul> Hobbsee: god hates you :)
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> or australia
 * Hobbsee doens't usually have work on fri nights, but does this week
<RichEd> Hobbsee: nope ... that's south african's that hate australia ;)
<RichEd> (sports joke)
<zul> meh...rugby...
<RichEd> zul: a game played by men with oddly shaped balls
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> rugby.  bah humbug.
<zul> RichEd: haha
<davmor2> hello heno
<pedro_> hey hey
<heno> hey davmor2, pedro_
<bdmurray> hi there
<davmor2> hello bdmurray, pedro_
<heno> ogasawara_, liw, cgregan, stgraber, jcastro, nand - meeting ping
<cgregan> here
 * ogasawara_ waves
<heno> Welcome everyone!
<nand_at_work> hi
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:02. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> [TOPIC] ISO smoke testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISO smoke testing
<heno> I wrote an email to the QA list about this earlier
<heno> we'll probably start smoke testing on Friday and those of us who are around on the weekend can continue then
<stgraber> hello
<heno> volunteers are welcome!
<heno> these results are not tracked on iso.qa.u.c and are a bit less formal in nature
 * davmor2 waves I'll be around friday and some of the weekend 
<heno> basically try to hammer away at commonly used stuff to shake out bugs early
<heno> I'll blog and post in the forum as well after the meeting
<stgraber> heno: you could blog about it on blog.qa.ubuntu.com
<davmor2> sound like a good plan
<heno> any other obvious test points we should add to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Smoke ?
<davmor2> stgraber: planet ubuntu would get more coverage
<pedro_> is the blog.qa.ubuntu.com on p.u.c ?
<heno> that would be good
<stgraber> heno: OpenOffice ?
<cgregan> heno: How about multimedia?
<bdmurray> Shouldn't Wubi be in the "install" table?
<stgraber> pedro_: not yet, I'm not sure I can simply add it to planet without asking the sysadmins ...
<heno> both good ideas
<davmor2> heno: I think the only issue I see is with the AD testing I'm pretty sure not many, if at all, have an active directory at home.
<heno> bdmurray: probably, yes
<pedro_> stgraber: ok
<davmor2> heno: evolution/thunderbird
<heno> Is AD a server or desktop team topic?
<heno> I guess we are looking to test the Gnome support, right?
<davmor2> pass open likewise isn't that specific
<davmor2> hangon
<heno> OOo, evolution, etc.> major apps do get tested by the community though in daily use
<davmor2> http://likewisesoftware.com/products/likewise_open/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://likewisesoftware.com/products/likewise_open/
<heno> though testing these with empty profiles might reveal issues
<davmor2> heno: looks like desktop as it joins Linux etc to ad
<heno> ok, thanks for the feedback. I'll tweak the page a bit
<heno> next
<heno> [TOPIC] Taking Brainstorm ideas to UDS
<MootBot> New Topic:  Taking Brainstorm ideas to UDS
<heno> jcastro: are you here?
<heno> I know jcastro sent out an email yesterday to everyone who is signed up to attend UDS, asking them to look at brainstorm and find topics for UDS
<stgraber> not only those attending UDS, those attending FOSSCamp too it seems :)
<heno> stgraber: ok, even better :)
<heno> he set up this page with suggested topics https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid/Brainstorm
<heno> but other topics can be picked too of course
<heno> stgraber, nand_at_work: does this approach seem sensible to you?
<heno> Are there other things we should be doing in this respect?
<stgraber> seems to be a good idea, don't know what the result will be at UDS though. I heard of some FOSSCamp like room with a whiteboard for scheduling
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 09 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 10 Apr 22:00: Security Team | 11 Apr 14:00: MOTU | 16 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 23 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 30 Apr 23:00: Server Team
<heno> right, UDS will mix scheduled sessions with on-the-fly scheduling on whiteboards
<stgraber> Would be good to have some kind of flag on brainstorm so the users know it'll be discussed at UDS (or has been proposed for discussion)
<heno> We can add a notice to the devel comment section
<davmor2> stgraber: it might be better to have a flag for after uds
<heno> we should also add links to blog posts or mailing list discussions about a topic
<heno> perhaps a link section that devs and admins can set
<heno> which is more general than the spec and bug links
<stgraber> note: you can put links in the devel comment
<heno> yep, we should just institute that as common practice
<heno> ok, so that seems on track
<heno> [TOPIC] Introducing mobile test cases
<MootBot> New Topic:  Introducing mobile test cases
<heno> cgregan and davmor2 have been adding and refining UME test cases
<heno> lots!
<heno> e.g. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEdesktop
<heno> So now is the time to join in with some cutting edge mobile testing
<heno> The interface can be tested in Xephyr and virtual machines
<stgraber> heno: are they considering using the QA tracker in the future ?
<cgregan> heno: correction...VM is still a work in progress
<heno> it's actually very important to do so because since there isn't much mobile HW out there, this stuff gets almost no testing
<heno> cgregan: ah, getting ahead of myself
<cgregan> heno: Hopefully next week we will have VM
<heno> I thought you could boot an ISO, but you did mention some X issues
<davmor2> Xephyr works relatively well currently although not perfectly :(
<heno> stgraber: indeed, probably for Intrepid Alpha 1 or 2
<cgregan> heno: ISO fails to load X so you stop at rc script execution
<heno> stgraber will be at FOSSCamp and cgregan at UDS - I'm hoping there might be a few hours of overlap so you can meet and talk about this
<cgregan> Sounds good
<stgraber> heno: ok, then we'll probably use another sub-domain for them as I don't think they have exactly the same milestone as we do for ISO
<stgraber> cgregan, heno: I'm leaving Prague end of afternoon on Sunday
<heno> stgraber: we might want to add a section like mobile.qa.u.c or add a derivative to iso.qa.u.c
<heno> or perhaps we'll need both
<davmor2> stgraber: I think the big issue will be that the test is so very different too
<heno> stgraber: the plan is that they will for Intrepid AFAIK
<cgregan> stgraber: I fly in Sunday morning.
<stgraber> ok, so if they have the same milestones as we do and also use cdimage (which is currently the case) it's possible to use the ISO tracker for UME testing
<stgraber> cgregan: ok, so it should be possible to have a talk with you :)
<heno> stgraber: mobile has only just gotten bug tracking set up properly (thanks cgregan) and test tracking is next
<heno> there is also a use case for private test tracking here actually
<heno> for people doing custom mobile builds
<heno> stgraber, cgregan: we can take the details of this to email and hopefully Prague
<stgraber> heno: sure
<cgregan> heno: Definitely
<heno> in the meantime, everyone is encouraged to play with the mobile builds!
<heno> any other topics for the meeting?
<davmor2> no
<pedro_> not from me
<stgraber> we launched http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com, so everyone in the QA team (the Drupal group) can now post blog posts here
<stgraber> those have to be related to Ubuntu QA testing or the Brainstorm website though
<stgraber> I'll ping the sysadmins to see if I can add it to Planet
<heno> Excellent, I'll try that!
<pedro_> stgraber: that'd be great ;-)
 * pedro_ subscribing to the rss feed in the meantime
<heno> if it has an RSS feed you can probably add it directly
<heno> if it's the right format
<heno> there is already a few non-person feeds like package-of-the-week and LP news
<heno> *there are
<stgraber> ok, I'll add it to Planet then
<heno> cool
<heno> hello liw :)
<liw> I shoudln't work, I start missing meetings
<heno> ok, I think we're done
<nand_at_work> hmm... me too :/
 * nand_at_work is back, too late
<pedro_> haha i almost miss the last desktop one, I'm hating the DST
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:41.
 * nand_at_work 's going home
<Syntux> There is a server meeting after one hour, right ?
<gcleric> the server meeting is in 1 hour 14min
<Syntux> great, thank you :-)
<nijaba> Syntux: actually the server meeting is in 2h10m from now
<nijaba> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 09 2008, 18:51:00 - Next meeting: Server Team in 2 hours 8 minutes
<Syntux> oh hmm, I wonder why they picked such timing, 6UTC would be wonderful for most of human beings
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Security Team | 11 Apr 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<zul> evening..
 * mathiaz waves
<jdstrand> o/
<nijaba> o/
 * Koon waves
<owh> Greetings and salutations fellow travelers.
<kirkland> [o]
<sommer> hey all
<zul> hi Koon
<mathiaz> So - let's get started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 23:02. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * mathiaz waves at MootBot :)
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> Previous meeting minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080402
<mathiaz> owh: I've noticed you've attached the patches
<owh> Yup, though I suspect they won't ever actually get used :)
<mathiaz> nijaba: did you get a chance the talk with bdmurray about the Ubuntu Server Bug contact page ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: yes I did
<nijaba> mathiaz: zul an I are listed as contacts for bug triagger now
<mathiaz> nijaba: great - so the purpose of the page is to list people that can be referred to online, via irc
<mathiaz> nijaba: if there are any questions related to a package specific to the server are ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: yes, when a triagger does not know what to do with a big, they contact us
<nijaba> a bug even
<mathiaz> nijaba: seems great - thanks nijaba and zul for taking up this role :)
<mathiaz> I think that's all from last week meeting
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Bug milestoned for Hardy
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug milestoned for Hardy
<mathiaz> As you may have noticed, we're approaching the release date of hardy
<mathiaz> There is a list of bug milestone for hardy: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.04
<mathiaz> I went through the list and here are some bugs that are relevant to us:
<mathiaz> bug 213482
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 213482 in openldap2.3 "Dapper to Hardy upgrade fails with slapd" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213482
<mathiaz> I think mvo is working on it
<mvo> mathiaz: I just posted a possible fix
<mvo> requires renaming libsasl2-modules to libsasl2-2-modules
<mvo> that is a bit unfortunate as the rdepends needs transitioning too
<mvo> there are not that many but its not ideal timing
<mvo> the fix works for me (and my kvm auto-upgrade tester)
<slangasek> I always knew that libsasl2 rename was a bad idea, I just didn't know why :)
<mathiaz> mvo: should this be considered as a blocker for the release of hardy ?
<nijaba> (yeah, mvo too uses kvm!)
<mvo> definitely, slapd breaks for everybody on dapper->hardy upgrades, that is not acceptable :)
<mvo> but the authorative answer can only come from a release-manager on this of course :)
<mathiaz> well - I guess we'll have to figure which packages are impacted by the rename
<mvo> there may be more ways to fix it too, but its good that we have a working solution
<mvo> someone with good understand on sasl should probably have a additional look on it
<mathiaz> Anyone wants to have a look into this sasl/ldap problem ?
<sommer> mathiaz: I'm interested, but am far from a packaging guru :)
 * sommer can definitely help test
<mathiaz> sommer: right - testing will be welcomed once we have a fix
<mathiaz> bon - if someone wants to take a shot at it, you have the bug number ;)
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> bug 81242
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 81242 in postfix "postfix-ldap is linked against gnuTLS" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81242
<mathiaz> So slangasek gave some pointers that needs more investigation
<mathiaz> lamont: do you have any comments on this GnuTLS vs Postfix issue ?
<mathiaz> let's move on to bug 155947
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155947 in libnss-ldap "ldap config  causes Ubuntu to hang at a reboot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155947
<mathiaz> kirkland: did you fix it ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: :-)  nope
<nxvl> sorry for being late, i have had work problems
<nijaba> mathiaz: I think this bug has difficulty to be reproduced...
<kirkland> mathiaz: but there are two points to be made about it
<kirkland> mathiaz: the first, is that we now have significant evidence that the failure path of this bug involves a system which has been upgraded from Feisty -> Gutsy -> Hardy
<kirkland> mathiaz: in that users are talking about a pam_ldap.conf config file that ceased to exist after Gutsy
 * kirkland points at dendrobates 
<kirkland> mathiaz: the second point is that at least one user confirmed a suspicion...
<kirkland> mathiaz: "hang on boot" in the title may not in fact be an accurate description of this bug
<kirkland> mathiaz: "hang on login" when no ldap server present is probably a more accurate description
<kirkland> mathiaz: at least one commenter recently agreed with this analysis
<slangasek> that sounds to me like a separate bug than the one originally being reported
<kirkland> mathiaz: in which case I think me, zul, jdstrand, dendrobates, and others have reproduced that behavior
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - hang on login makes sense to me
<jdstrand> kirkland: I seem to remember a comment on this happening in dapper, and not fixed in etch either
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'd say hang on login is "functions as designed" in my opinion
<slangasek> "hang on boot" is explainable in terms of the network not being up yet and nss_ldap being !clever
<kirkland> in any case, i have never hung a system on booting trying to reproduce this, and i've tried at least a dozen installations of feisty -> hardy
<jdstrand> kirkland: I also seem to remember (maybe in a duplicate) that people described the problem in the same way as the missing nvram bug, which *was* a hang on boot
<kirkland> jdstrand: i did not go back to dapper/edgy
<mathiaz> kirkland: re pam_ldap.conf - does it mean that upgrades are not handled properly ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: that is possible
<jdstrand> (the nvram bug was fixed btw)
<kirkland> mathiaz: users are saying that they're "fixing" this by adding a "soft bind policy" to the ldap.conf
<kirkland> mathiaz: if any fix for this bug is required, i think that may be it, for it, in the upgrading case
<nijaba> kirkland: how would you explain it only happening in cas of an upgrade?
<kirkland> nijaba: configuration that's not properly ported out of pam_ldap.conf ?
<mathiaz> nijaba: we changed libnss-ldap to use one configuration file
 * kirkland was not around for that change, yields to mathiaz & dendrobates 
<mathiaz> nijaba: in feisty, there used to be to files to configure ldap info - one for pam and one for libnss
<jdstrand> kirkland: not ported properly would indeed happen, as there wasn't any porting IIRC
<jdstrand> kirkland: let me check, but I think it was just a debconf note saying 'you have to do this manually'
<nijaba> and is softbind the default now on a new install?
<mathiaz> nijaba: dendrobates changed it in gutsy, so that pam and libnss use one configuration file (/etc/ldap.conf)
<mathiaz> jdstrand: I think he put some logic to migrate the files
<mathiaz> jdstrand: at least if the two configuration files were the same
<mathiaz> jdstrand: the issue is when libnssldap and pam_ldap aren't using the same configuration
<jdstrand> I worked on that a bit myself, I am digging into it now
<jdstrand> mathiaz: no migration-- ldap-auth-config/move-to-debconf
<mathiaz> jdstrand: ok
<jdstrand> "You MUST either reconfigure your settings with debconf, or manually migrate your settings into ldap.conf and verify your configuration before logging out."
<kirkland> jdstrand: please link to that somehow as a comment in the bug?
<kirkland> mathiaz: how should we proceed on this bug at this point, for Hardy?
 * kirkland looks for guidance
<mathiaz> that would explain why we see this problem only on an feisty -> gutsy upgrade
<jdstrand> kirkland: it's in the ldap-auth-client source for debconf
<jdstrand> configuration
<mathiaz> well - the problem is that users don't read what debconf is telling them
<jdstrand> that happens if either or both of /etc/libnss-ldap.conf and /etc/pam-ldap.conf exist on upgrade
<dendrobates> initally we were going to disallow upgrade if the seperate files still existed, but it was decided that was a bad plan.
<jdstrand> there is no sane way to migrate them as it is possible to actually use both on the same system (which was one of the driving forces behind dendrobates' merging to /etc/ldap.conf to begin, IIRC)
<jdstrand> reason being it was too complicated and error prone
<jdstrand> (but I'll let him speak to that if desired)
<mathiaz> kirkland: I don't think we can really say we know what's going on in this bug
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay, back at the grinding wheel again
<mathiaz> kirkland: it's still not reproducable
<kirkland> mathiaz: right
<mathiaz> kirkland: the comments are also long
<kirkland> mathiaz: should I focus more on dapper -> hardy upgrades, as that might be the more popular upgrade path in the future?
<mathiaz> kirkland: oh yeah - definelty
<mathiaz> kirkland: is there someone on the bug thread that is able to reproduce the problem now ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: yeah, a lot of comments, though, are autoresponders from someone's annoying vacation responder :-S
<mathiaz> kirkland: if not - we don't have any choice but to wait for someone that runs in the same problem
<mathiaz> kirkland: and then we can start debugging it
<kirkland> mathiaz: no one whose been willing to either (a) share their configs, or (b) meet me in IRC or on private email
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - that happends often in long running bugs
<kirkland> mathiaz: there is a single user who claims he's seen this on Hardy beta, when I asked for logs/configs, he couldn't get them to me/Launchpad
<jdstrand> kirkland: how about an ssh root session into there system?
<mathiaz> kirkland: some of the commenter are just adding a me too -while it's not the same problem
<jdstrand> ;P
<slangasek> kirkland: mark the bug as incomplete to force the issue?
<jdstrand> s/there/their/
<kirkland> slangasek: good plan, I'll go that route.
<slangasek> (and be clear about what config files you need :)
<kirkland> if this is a boot hang, i want /var/log/syslog, and some ldap/nss configs out of /etc
<jdstrand> kirkland: someone mentioned etch being broken in the same way, might be worthwhile to look at Debian BTS
<mathiaz> bug 189616
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 189616 in dovecot "connection problems under load with hardy dovecot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/189616
<kirkland> jdstrand: okay
<mathiaz> I've started to look into that bug - but I've found nothing up to now
<nijaba> another: "yet to be reproduced" bug...
<nijaba> mathiaz: could we convince elmo to give it another shot with a network sniffer on?
<mathiaz> nijaba: hum - I don't think that he'll be happy with the network sniffer part...
<nijaba> mathiaz: we are talking about ssl traces...
<jdstrand> I don't think he'd be happy with the 'another shot' part
<nxvl> i can sniff some packages on a test suite
<nxvl> using virtual machines
<nijaba> jdstrand: this, I can imagine, but I'd like to know if he can reproduce on hardy, not on a backported to dapper dovecot
<mathiaz> nijaba: I've tried to use a backported to dapper dovecot version and wasn't able to reproduce the bug
<nijaba> mathiaz: with simulated ssl imap client and all?
<jdstrand> nijaba: absolutely, if it's not hardy test then it's not valid. I was just being 'realistic'
<mathiaz> nijaba: with a real imap ssl client (a python script)
<mathiaz> nijaba: I've run 60 concurent clients login/logging out
<nijaba> mathiaz: good.... so --> incomplete?
<mathiaz> nijaba: yeah - I'll talk to elmo to figure out what the configuration is
<jdstrand> if --> incomplete, document *everything*
<mathiaz> nijaba: there may be some weird setup somewhere.
<nijaba> mathiaz: yep, that is one part we have not been good at on this bug.
<nxvl> btw
<nxvl> do we support backported packages?
<nxvl> i think it can be broken by the dapper configuration
<mathiaz> nxvl: depends how you define "we" and "support"
<nijaba> nxvl: no, but elmo, if you do not know, is our IS guy
<nxvl> "we" as in server team and "support" as in fix bugs that includes and old still supported release and new packages
<nxvl> nijaba: yep i knew he was our sysadmin
<dendrobates> nxvl: we have to try and fix this,
<mathiaz> nxvl: generally no
<dendrobates> or rather try and find out if it exists.
<nxvl> dendrobates: so we do care about them
<mathiaz> nxvl: in this particular case, we'd better try to investigate the issue a little bit
<dendrobates> we care about this one.
<owh> Just an observation, but so far both his and other virtual testing seems not to show the issue. Could it be related to his hardware?
<nxvl> oh ok
<nxvl> i will try to make a test suite later today or tomorrow and try to reproduce it
<nxvl> configuring a postfix on dapper
<nxvl> and then backport it
<dendrobates> nxvl: because this could be a problem in production environments and becuase we absolutely trust the source.
<nijaba> nxvl: in fact, we would hate seing this bug occuring on hardy in a live user config
<mathiaz> owh: well - dovecot on dapper works correctly
<mathiaz> owh: switch backported dovecot and it fails
<dendrobates> the best case, is tn reproduce it in dapper using the backport, and then have it not exist in hardy
<owh> mathiaz: But on the other side of that is that his own load testing and that done by you does not show the problem. Unless of course we're not simulating enough load.
<mathiaz> owh: yes.
<jdstrand> mathiaz: do you have his backported packages, 'dpkg -l' and dovecot configuration?
<nxvl> i have just asked for more information about the bug to try to reproduce it
<mathiaz> owh: the issue was seen on a production system
<mathiaz> jdstrand: not yet - I was going to ask about it.
<owh> mathiaz: We're (ubuntu-server) not really setup for testing load are we?
<jdstrand> mathiaz: I'd be curious about the installed packages too (hence the dpkg -l)
<owh> mathiaz: Yeah, not really a nice place to find bugs at the best of times.
<owh> So, gather more information basically jdstrand.
<jdstrand> yes, the bug is 'terse'
<owh> s/./?/
<mathiaz> owh: agreed - I'l talk with elmo about the setup
<owh> That's a good word :)
<mathiaz> That's was all for the bugs milestoned for the release.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] RC/Final testing of server isos
<MootBot> New Topic:  RC/Final testing of server isos
<nijaba> mathiaz: isn't bug #199144 milestoned?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 199144 in apache2 "Apache2 with mpm_worker times out with many concurrent requests" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199144
<mathiaz> nijaba: hum... true
<mathiaz> nijaba: zul wasn't able to reproduce the bug
<zul> about that one I wasnt able to reproduce the bug I ran the command a hundread times through the loop and still wasnt able to reproduce it
<slangasek> also, a reminder that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs aren't milestoned, but they are targets of opportunity... if you exhaust the milestoned bugs, or if anyone wants something that might be easier to tackle, that's a place to look
<zul> it doesnt help what yaddayadda is in the bug report
<nijaba> zul: at least the reporter responds to our queries
<zul> yep
<mathiaz> zul: could it be a hardware problem ?
<mathiaz> zul: like faulty memory ?
<zul> mathiaz: it could be faulty network card not sure
<zul> there was a bug about in apache's bug tracker but that was from 3 years ago
<owh> Uh, what about a PHP issue, that is, PHP is hogging all the children?
<owh> I know the report says it isn't related, but I've seen it happen often on crap PHP code.
<mathiaz> zul: is the root of the website a php script ?
<nijaba> owh: I guess that is what zul meant when he said "it doesnt help what yaddayadda is in the bug report"
<zul> mathiaz: he doesnt say
<mathiaz> zul: you may wanna ask more information about the setup
<nijaba> mathiaz: would be a good question to ask
<slangasek> if the content he's testing against is PHP, that could very well be the cause, yes :)
<owh> nijaba: That's possible I suppose.
<zul> yep...
<zul> I will do so as soon as I finish what Im working on :)
<mathiaz> zul: great
<mathiaz> so to go back to the topic
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] RC/Final testing of server isos
<MootBot> New Topic:  RC/Final testing of server isos
<mathiaz> heno started to organize -server iso testing for RC and Final
<owh> mathiaz: Sorry to intrude but do we need a time check?
<mathiaz> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Server Team 10 Apr 20:00: Security Team | 11 Apr 12:00: MOTU | 16 Apr 21:00: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00: Server Team
<mathiaz> owh: well - there isn't any meeting now
<owh> All good.
<mathiaz> owh: but I think we're almost finished now
<mathiaz> so tomorrow is the archive freeze until Final release
<mathiaz> we'll have an RC of Hardy next week
<mathiaz> and final in two weeks
<zul> thats freaking scarey
<sommer> mathiaz: are there going to be sparc iso's?
<mathiaz> slangasek: ^^
<nijaba> sommer: yes, but not officially maintained
<slangasek> there will be sparc isos, on the same level with hppa/powerpc/ia64...
<owh> zul: I was just thinking that :)
<sommer> so should they be tested?
<mathiaz> sommer: if you have the hardware, yes
<sommer> cool
<slangasek> sparc is being moved to "ports", it's not a Canonical-supported release anymore, including for server
<slangasek> but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be tested
<mathiaz> sommer: I don't know if the isotesting tracker will track sparc tests though
<owh> mathiaz: So, are there any specific testing requirements for U-S for the .iso's ?
<owh> I mean, booting and installing is fine, but that's hardly "testing" an .iso is it?
<mathiaz> owh: owh https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/ServerInstall
<mathiaz> owh: we have a list of 9 test cases
<mathiaz> owh: the testing procude is outlined on the wiki page.
<owh> mathiaz: I'm reading it as you type :)
<mathiaz> owh: if you're interested in helping out, you should check out http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<mathiaz> owh: it's the iso testing tracker
<mathiaz> owh: when the release team has new isos to test, they will be published there
<nijaba> owh: feel free to register yourself for  some tests ;)
<owh> mathiaz: As I'm reading this, it's hardly beyond "tick" a box installation is it.
<nijaba> owh: right
<mathiaz> owh: a little bit more
<owh> Are there any actual testing suites?
<mathiaz> owh: there are some tests to be done depending on the installation profile
<mathiaz> owh: for ex, make sure that postgres is running on reboot, etc...
<owh> mathiaz: Yeah, check if you can create a database, but basically, trust the installer. That's pretty trivial IMO.
<slangasek> owh: there are test cases to follow to ensure that the packages are installed correctly by default; the ISO testing isn't intended to be a replacement for the much longer period of beta testing that's been ongoing
<nxvl> i will give a try to iso's when i work on the postfix bug
<mathiaz> owh: everything is outlined in the test description
<nxvl> using a VM
<owh> slangasek: Cool. I just thought I'd ask.
<mathiaz> owh: trivial is better than nothing ;)
<owh> mathiaz: There is that.
 * owh has to head off to breakfast.
<sommer> whoa... thought he said beerfest for a second :-)
<mathiaz> all right - that's all I wanted to mention for the meeting
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<mathiaz> slangasek: do you want to add something related to the incoming release ?
<slangasek> I have one particular bug I'd like to request attention on :)
<slangasek> bug #208419
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 208419 in auth-client-config "Integrate samba password in PAM" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208419
<jdstrand> the patch is forth-coming, I promise! :)
<slangasek> this is a pretty late "feature", but it's pretty trivial to enable
 * jdstrand wishes auth-client-config didn't start with 'a' now
<slangasek> so I'd like the server team to comment on pulling libpam-smbpass into the samba-server seed by default
<mathiaz> considering that the samba-server task is targeted at new comers, I think it'd make sense
 * nijaba dreams of rediecting both to slapd once and for all...
 * slangasek twitch
<mathiaz> I think that most of the samba deployments in the server world don't require libpam-smbpass
<slangasek> mathiaz: I think they don't /use/ it, but do you think that's what people /want/?
<slangasek> do admins not want password sync by default between Unix and Samba
<slangasek> ?
<sommer> I wouldn't, by default
<mathiaz> slangasek: hum... depends on the use case
<mathiaz> slangasek: and the environment
 * mathiaz ponders
<mathiaz> IMO adding to the samba-server seed makes sense to me
<mathiaz> considering the target audience
<nijaba> dendrobates: any impact for likewise?
<mathiaz> slangasek: so for me, it's a +1 for the samba-server seed modification
<dendrobates> nijaba: no
<nijaba> good, thanks
<dendrobates> nijaba: wait, let me read the bug first.
<dendrobates> nijaba: no, it does not apply.
<dendrobates> slangasek: +1
<slangasek> k, cheers :)
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Security Team | 11 Apr 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<mathiaz> slangasek: I can take a look at modify the seeds
<slangasek> cool, thanks
<owh> Just an aside, how is the survey coming along?
<nijaba> owh: their were a few security issues uncovered by kees in limesurvey.  we are waiting for upstream to fix those before it can be hosted on u.c
<owh> Is there any way to speed that up - I mean, waiting for someone else to do something might take years :)
<nijaba> owh: I am in touch with their lead dev almost daily
<nijaba> owh: I he gave me good assurance it is going to be fixed soon
<owh> nijaba: Is there a time line?
<nijaba> owh: ASAP
<owh> :)
<owh> So, if that is sorted out, are we ready to roll?
<nijaba> owh: I believe so, yes
<owh> Do we need to do another #U-S - wide testing run?
<owh> s/another/a/
<nijaba> owh: not sure but if you feel like it, I can set one up easy enough
<owh> What do others think about this?
<owh> Just to be clear, I'm talking about a test-run sent to the ubuntu-server list.
 * sommer thought the last one looked good
<mathiaz> owh: a test-run ? Has anything changed ?
<owh> mathiaz: At the moment, there have only been a select few who have run it.
<nijaba> mathiaz: we fixed about ten "bugs" since last test
<owh> I'm just wondering if it needed a wider audience before release.
<nijaba> owh: I think it should be fine
 * mathiaz agrees
<owh> All good then :)
<nijaba> owh: we did 4 iteration, with an average of 5 testers
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] #
<mathiaz> Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<owh> Hmm, is there anything else I should be doing about the init.d scripts?
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
<mathiaz> owh: nope - it's all good for now :)
<mathiaz> Next week, same time, same place ?
<owh> WFM
<sommer> o./
<nijaba> +0.9
 * owh jumps for joy :)
 * owh could do with more sleep as well...
<owh> Just out of interest, what TZ's are people in? For me it's UTC+8
<mathiaz> Great - so see ya all next week, here at the same time
<nijaba> UTC+2 here
<owh> So this meeting starts at 5am.
<mathiaz> happy testing
<mathiaz> thanks for attending :)
<sommer> thanks mathiaz
<nijaba> thanks mathiaz
<sommer> owh: UTC -4
<owh> thanks mathiaz for your tireless typing :)
<jdstrand> thanks mathiaz!
<owh> So, nijaba is really screwwed :|
<nxvl> UTC -  here
<mathiaz> owh: our TZ range from UTC+8 to UTC-9
<nxvl> 5*
<mathiaz> owh: hum - UTC-7 to be correct
<sommer> er, I think I'm 5 as well :)
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 00:41.
<sommer> later on all
<nijaba> 'night
<owh> mathiaz: So much for finding a better time then :)
<mathiaz> owh: right - that's alway the problem when you have people all over the world
<mathiaz> owh: the other solution is to rotate the meeting times
<owh> I was just thinking that.
<owh> It's not really fair to screw the same person(s) all the time.
<owh> I feel for nijaba though.
<nijaba> don't worry, we're not just at my usual bed time
<owh> Of course it's possible that nijaba is a night owl :)
<nijaba> owh: I am a bit of that...
<mathiaz> nijaba: right - but you're not the only one in Europe
<nijaba> mathiaz: soren is worse than me ;)
<mathiaz> nijaba: soren is also a nigh owl
<owh> What's soren at?
<mathiaz> but we have other people in Europe
<nijaba> soren= utc+2 as well
<mathiaz> sommer: UTC+2 - he is usually in Denmark
<mathiaz> owh: ^^
<mathiaz> owh: and we also have people on the west coast
<owh> I wonder if we run the risk of burning people out if we keep the same times, or do we make it worse by rotating?
<mathiaz> owh: rotating == we need to keep track of the meeting time
<owh> Lot's of late arrivals with "Sorry, forgot the time."
<mathiaz> owh: and people are really bad it this
<owh> s/it/at/?
<mathiaz> owh: yeah - look at what DST generated...
<mathiaz> owh: yeat it -> at
<owh> I'm noticing that there is a lot of work behind the scenes. Many Ubuntu users would not be aware of any of it. Is there a benefit to holding an "open day"?
<owh> A day in the life of a ubuntu-server developer kind of thing?
<mathiaz> owh: like this ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
<owh> I'm fixing bugs and attending meetings, but I'm only scratching the surface.
 * owh looks.
<owh> Is the intent to do that on IRC, or another platform?
<mathiaz> owh: we always do it on IRC
<owh> How is it publicised?
<owh> Should we as a group offer some sessions?
<mathiaz> owh: there a plan to offer some sessions
<mathiaz> owh: I'll probably run a session on the server team
<owh> mathiaz: Do you want to add it to the next meeting agenda?
 * owh guesses there may be others.
<mathiaz> owh: well - I've already done it once
<owh> When?
<mathiaz> owh: so I already have a skeleton for the IRC session
<mathiaz> owh: during the DeveloperWeek in January
<mathiaz> owh: or February
<mathiaz> owh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek0802/SeverTeam
<owh> I'm just thinking that single-person representation is subject to the "hit by a bus" scenario.
<mathiaz> owh: well - the content of my last irc session is online
<owh> Also, in sessions like that, if other team members were there they could help.
<owh> mathiaz: I'm talking more about a "group-knowledge". It shouldn't always fall to the same person.
<nxvl> mathiaz: february
<nxvl> owh: if we all "talk" ( write ? ) it will be a complete disaster and there will we no order
<nxvl> owh: so we have mathiaz that talk for us
<nxvl> :D
 * nxvl HUG mathiaz 
<owh> mathiaz: This OpenDay seems more targeted at developers rather than users.
<owh> nxvl: I understand that. I'm not trying to surplant mathiaz, I'm saying there are other team members who can assist.
<nxvl> oh yes
<owh> I suspect there are many end-users who would love to know more about Ubuntu's magical workings.
<nxvl> i always take the questions
<nxvl> :D
<owh> I saw your paw in that log nxvl :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-10
<owh> I think it's all about "connecting". I have a client who runs a pig-farm. They run Ubuntu to do their day-to-day operations and love it. They know nothing about bugs, IRC or Ubuntu for that matter. I'm sure they'd like to understand a little more about this community.
<nxvl> i think we should move to #ubuntu-server
<owh> point
<sommer> woops meant -5 :)
<sommer> if anyone's still here
<MacSlow> re
<freeflying> @schedule shanghai
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 11 Apr 04:00: Security Team | 11 Apr 20:00: MOTU | 17 Apr 05:00: Server Team | 24 Apr 05:00: Server Team | 01 May 05:00: Server Team
<Keybuk> *sigh* at the Fridge repeatedly forgetting meetings
<cody-somerville> Keybuk, The fridge doesn't forget.
<cody-somerville> Keybuk, People forget to ask to have their meetings added ;]
<Keybuk> I asked months ago
<Keybuk> and it was added
<Keybuk> then it fell off
<Hobbsee> try again, then.
<Hobbsee> and give it a kick this time
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: there seems little point, if they'll just drop it again after three weeks
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: file a bug?
<cody-somerville> What meeting is this?
<Keybuk> cody-somerville: Desktop Team Meeting
<Keybuk> every week, on Thursday, 1300 UTC in Northern summer time, 1400 UTC in Northern winter time
<cody-somerville> URL for agenda?
<cody-somerville> @now UTC
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 10 2008, 12:39:06 - Next meeting: Security Team in 7 hours 20 minutes
<cody-somerville> How long does the meeting usually last?
<Hobbsee> an hour
<MacSlow> yes mostly 60 min.
<cody-somerville> @now GMT
<Keybuk> cody-somerville: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting
<cody-somerville> Weird. There doesn't seem to be built in functionality for repeating events.
<cody-somerville> Ok. I added todays and next weeks.
<cody-somerville> I'll add more later.
 * mvo looks around
 * ted1 waves
<pedro_> hello
<seb128> hey
<pedro_> salut seb128
<MacSlow> ola tudo
<OgMaciel> MacSlow: :)
<MacSlow> OgMaciel, :)
<Keybuk> Riddell, kwwii, mpt: ping
<kwwii> hihi
<seb128> kwwii: somebody has been faster than me to sponsor your artwork update apparently, or you got upload rights?
<Hobbsee> must be the former, unless there's a quick way to upload rights now
<Riddell> hi
<kwwii> seb128: apparantly pitti did it at 3:30 our time
<seb128> Hobbsee: that was a way to ask who did the sponsoring ;-)
<Hobbsee> :)
<Keybuk> ok, we're mostly all here :-)
<Keybuk> let's get going
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-04-10
<seb128> kwwii: ok, what I though but you didn't cc him on the mail so I was not sure how he knew
<Keybuk> I didn't see any agenda items for this week's meeting, did I miss any?
<kwwii> seb128: yeah, I forgot that he is in America when I pinged him on chat
<kwwii> seb128: I thought he would miss it
<kwwii> sorry for the confusion
<seb128> no problem, one thing less to do I'll do complain ;-)
<Keybuk> I guess not
<seb128> I read the mail at 3am before going to bed and I decided I worked way to late already and that I would do it today
<Keybuk> outstanding actions from last week
<Keybuk>     *
<Keybuk>       pitti to disable gvfs libgphoto backend
<Keybuk>     *
<Keybuk>       seb128 to enable gvfs libarchive backend
<seb128> and it was uploaded this morning ;-)
<seb128> Keybuk: so I did drop the libgphoto backend
<Keybuk> ok, great
<Keybuk> and the libarchive backend, did that get enabled?
<seb128> and I did enable the gvfs libarchive backend (was already the case previous week), add the nautilus new menu item for it and dropped that change later
<Keybuk> cool
<seb128> what I didn't think about was that most applications don't use gvfs yet
<seb128> so they don't understand those new backends urls
<seb128> which means you can browse but not open files there
<Keybuk> hmm, do you think that's an issue?
<seb128> for users yes
<Keybuk> should we disable it again until applications do use gvfs?
<seb128> it's really confusing to be able to browse something but not to open anything there
<seb128> that's what I did
<seb128> "and dropped that change later"
<Keybuk> ah, got it
<ted1> But, its the same problem we've had with applications not using gnome-vfs for a long time.
<seb128> now it's installed to /usr/share/doc/nautilus-data/examples/mount-archive.desktop
<seb128> so whoever want it can just cp that to /usr/share/applications
<seb128> easy to get but not on by default
<Keybuk> ted1: true, but more apps use gnome-vfs I guess
<seb128> seems a good deal to me
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> cool
<seb128> ted1: well, I would be happy with gedit and eog working
<seb128> which was the case for gnome-vfs
<seb128> because people will expect to be able to open text files
<ted1> And they aren't gvfs?
<seb128> no
<seb128> no application is using gvfs
<ted1> Oh.
<mvo> just nautilus?
<seb128> well, gvfs is used in nautilus yes
<seb128> the fileselector and the panel uses it too
<seb128> so mounted volumes, etc are coherent
<seb128> but the desktop applications have not been ported to gvfs for data reading, etc yet
<seb128> you don't notice that when using normal locations
<seb128> because gnomevfs also understand file:, ssh:, etc
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> any other items before we move on to the regular bits?
<ted1> seb128: Thanks.  Sucks, but good to know.
<kwwii> Keybuk: unless some more gdm theme suggestions come down the line the artwork is done I guess
<Keybuk> kwwii: I haven't had any feedback from Mark
<kwwii> the ubuntu chicken is cooked, so to speak
<mpt> mmm, chicken
<ted1> Wouldn't the heron be cooked?
 * Keybuk briefly wonders what Heron tastes like
<seb128> I'm not a big fan of the new gdm theme
<Keybuk> seb128: in what sense?
<seb128> but artwork is always a matter of taste ;-)
 * Hobbsee wonders where screenshots would be.
<Hobbsee> or download the source package?
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: or run Hardy? :p
<seb128> Keybuk: the colors are too "cold", not sure if that's the right word
<seb128> it gives this metal feeling
<Keybuk> seb128: compared to Gutsy?
<seb128> not very warm
<Keybuk> or compared to Ken's previous effort for Hardy
<kwwii> seb128: I thought about making it less glowy in the middle
<seb128> not compared to something else
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: i do.  But i autologin for gdm, to cut down on the wait time (and password-protect the bios)
<kwwii> if I can still change it I will
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: i have been since pre-alpha1 :)
<seb128> that's just looking at it doesn't give be a nice and warm feeling
<kwwii> a little bit can't hurt :-)
<seb128> but as said artwork is a matter of taste
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: ah, I abandoned auto-login since I have to type password for gnome-keyring anyway
<seb128> Keybuk: not true
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: you can set that to no p/w too.
<Hobbsee> or otherwise get around it
<mpt> I'd like to know how :-)
<seb128> Keybuk: but if you use an unprotected keyring you don't get gpg and ssh keyring storage though
 * Hobbsee only has to use a p/w for the gpg & ssh keys, now
<Keybuk> seb128: right, I use gpg and ssh storage
<Keybuk> does that mean you have to type a password the first time or every time for those?
<Hobbsee> oh, maybe it was that i stored the network mangler password in cleartext, figuring that if they got past the bios password, there was more important stuff than the network key
<seb128> mpt: after installation when it asks for a keyring password just enter none
<seb128> it'll warn you about the lack of security and not store ssh keys etc
<seb128> but that will make autologin and network manager works without asking for any password
<mpt> I already have a keyring, I've kept GPG and SSH keys in it since 2005, but it's only asked me for a password since November 2007
<mpt> but anyway, that's a bit off-topic
<Keybuk> seb128: but how do you then store GPG and SSH keys in it?
<seb128> right
<Keybuk> or what happens to the ones already stored there?
<seb128> Keybuk: you don't
<seb128> hum, that's a good question
<Keybuk> so I'd have to enter a password every time I used gpg or ssh?
<seb128> I didn't try to remove the password from a keyring which has some of those
<seb128> yes
<Keybuk> bah :)
<Keybuk> isn't there a way to create a new keyring for gpg and ssh passwords that's locked? :p
<seb128> you can create different keyrings yes, not sure if you can tell it to use those for the ssh agent for example though
<seb128> anyway not really a meeting topic ;-)
<Keybuk> heh
<Keybuk> who's upstream?
<seb128> "Stef Walter"
<seb128> not sure if he does IRC
<Keybuk> don't think I know him
<Keybuk> anyway, on with meeting topics
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<Keybuk> mvo: bug #213040
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 213040 in update-manager "update-manager: spelling errors in hardy.tar.gz" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213040
<mvo> Keybuk: we are in string freeze, but I can unfuzzy them by hand if needed
<Keybuk> mvo: you can remove the sponsoring team, remember :p
<seb128> I read this one this morning, lot of strings changes, not sure if that's worth the trouble
<mvo> *cough* yes
<Keybuk> seb128: #bug 183603
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 183603 in gtksourceview "The code comment plugin does't work with Fortran 95" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183603
<Keybuk> that looks rather invasive for this point in the cycle?
<mvo> fortran 95?!?
<seb128> that's a one liner change in the fortran coloration thing
<Keybuk> oh, is it?
<seb128> I'll try to get upstream to commit it so we get it in the next tarball
<seb128> Keybuk: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11460132/fortran.lang.patch
<Keybuk> cool
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/qa-hardy-list-archive/sort-by-package/desktop-buglist.html
<Keybuk> nothing new on there that I can see
<pedro_> no, just a fix on jockey
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> that's all then, any other business for today?
 * Hobbsee wonders why simple-ubuntu.png is so big.
<seb128> Keybuk: good work on the uds topics btw ;-)
<Keybuk> seb128: did I miss anything major?
<seb128> I don't think so
<MacSlow> Keybuk, any thought on the "spit and polish"-idea yet?
<Keybuk> MacSlow: yeah, I'm going to try and fit that one in
<MacSlow> thoughts
<MacSlow> ok
<seb128> I think that's a good selection of things that need polish and work
<MacSlow> seb128, you read it too?
<seb128> Keybuk: oh, maybe the menus issue
<seb128> MacSlow: read what? no I was speaking about the list of topics on the agenda
<Keybuk> seb128: I think that was under UI Cleanup?
<MacSlow> seb128, ah alright
<seb128> Keybuk: but not an another "how can we reduce the number of items there", we have one of those at every UDS
<Keybuk> ok
<seb128> Keybuk: well, I think we should rather thing about changing the menu approch, using the gnome-control-centre shell and do some work on it to get it good enough for that or something similar
<Keybuk> will make sure that's in the list of sessions
<seb128> s/thing/think
<seb128> that's not something urgent, but we have menu issues for a while
<Keybuk> *nods*
<Keybuk> I should have a draft schedule of the desktop track by next week
<Keybuk> so we can beat up on that then
<Keybuk> adjourned for today then
<Keybuk> thanks everyone
<mvo> thanks
<seb128> thanks Keybuk
<mpt> thanks
<kwwii> danke
<MacSlow> so long
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 10 Apr 22:00: Security Team | 11 Apr 14:00: MOTU | 16 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 23 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 30 Apr 23:00: Server Team
<mruiz> @schedule santiago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Santiago: 10 Apr 16:00: Security Team | 11 Apr 08:00: MOTU | 16 Apr 17:00: Server Team | 23 Apr 17:00: Server Team | 30 Apr 17:00: Server Team
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 10 Apr 16:00: Security Team | 11 Apr 08:00: MOTU | 16 Apr 17:00: Server Team | 23 Apr 17:00: Server Team | 30 Apr 17:00: Server Team
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Security Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Apr 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<keescook> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 22:00. The chair is keescook.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<keescook> hello!  who all is here for the security team meeting?
 * propagandist waves
<keescook> :)
<nijaba> o/
<keescook> emgent had to leave, so I put a few quick agenda items in the meeting today
<Keybuk> I'm not here
<keescook> [topic] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<keescook> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> hi!
<keescook> Keybuk: noted.  :)
<keescook> I have to split for another meeting in half an hour, so hopefully we can make this quick.  :)
<jdstrand> ok go!
<keescook> I'm going to cover emgent's topics quickly, since they're more "announcements" than anything else.
<keescook> [topic] ubuntu whitehat
<MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu whitehat
<keescook> emgent has been working on anteater for reporting private security issues to Launchpad.
<keescook> [link] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-whitehat-project/+spec/anteater-plb-support
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-whitehat-project/+spec/anteater-plb-support
<keescook> so anyone interested in that, please have a look.  He's also looking for help with documentation
<keescook> [link] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-whitehat-project/+spec/anteater-docs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-whitehat-project/+spec/anteater-docs
<keescook> I'd also like to have emgent organize the first whitehat meeting, and announce it to the ubuntu-hardened mailing list.
<keescook> [action] emgent to send email to ubuntu-hardened mailing list, with schedule for first whitehat meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  emgent to send email to ubuntu-hardened mailing list, with schedule for first whitehat meeting
<keescook> [topic] CVE review
<MootBot> New Topic:  CVE review
<keescook> anyone got any CVEs they'd like to call attention to?
<jdstrand> emgent gave me a list of debdiffs that I'll be looking at soon
<keescook> okay, cool.  I haven't had time yet this week to review the security sponsorship queue
<keescook> hm, Fujitsu is missing... we scheduled this meeting special for him  :P
<jdstrand> I cleared out a few things today, and have been trying to see where hardy really stands
<keescook> if anyone reading this has some interest, I'd like to see if we can help calc with CVE-2007-4575 (bug 174112).  It's been open a while, and the backporting isn't trivial.
<jdstrand> (quite a few uploads fixed things)
<keescook> jdstrand: very cool; nice work.
<keescook> okay, moving on.
<keescook> [topic] roadmap progress
<MootBot> New Topic:  roadmap progress
<keescook> the roadmap has been tweaked a bit since the last meeting, and it's looking much better.
<keescook> the FAQ and KnowledgeBase still need work though.  :)
<keescook> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Roadmap
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174112 in openoffice.org "[openoffice.org] [CVE-2007-4575] Potential arbitrary code execution vulnerability in 3rd party module (HSQLDB)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174112
<ubotu> HSQLDB before 1.8.0.9, as used in OpenOffice.org (OOo) 2 before 2.3.1, allows user-assisted remote attackers to execute arbitrary Java code via crafted database documents, related to "exposing static java methods." (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-4575)
<jdstrand> the hsqldb part of that is fixed in hardy btw
<keescook> yeah, hardy is okay, but the backports are supposedly not easy, according to calc.
 * jdstrand nods
<keescook> [topic] SELinux progress
<MootBot> New Topic:  SELinux progress
<jdstrand> (I just happened to update ubuntu-cve-tracker for that one today ;)
<keescook> propagandist: how'd things?
<keescook> er, how're things?
<propagandist> SETools has been syned with Debian. Several bug have been submitted and I'll be trying to resolve as many as possible asap. I've been working on fixes to the cups, cups-pdf, and service restarting problems and hope to have an updated refpol package soon.
<keescook> cool, are any of the setools bugs show-stoppers?
<propagandist> Not that I know of, but I haven't looked at them since earlier this week.
<keescook> I chatted with slangasek briefly about release notes including SELinux -- it sounds like something can get worked out.
<propagandist> Redhat has given us some props:
<propagandist> [LINK] http://www.press.redhat.com/2008/04/09/red-hat-welcomes-opensolaris-and-ubuntu-to-the-world-of-type-enforcement/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.press.redhat.com/2008/04/09/red-hat-welcomes-opensolaris-and-ubuntu-to-the-world-of-type-enforcement/
<keescook> haha nice
<propagandist> ;o]
<propagandist> Not much else to report.
<keescook> no news can be good news.  :)
<keescook> thanks!
<keescook> [topic] hardening wrapper testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  hardening wrapper testing
<keescook> the buildds for interpid are still not set up for hardening, but infinity and doko have promised to get to a solution before the archive opens.
<keescook> Debian adoption continues, but slowly, and is uncovering bugs in various arch flavors.
<keescook> anyone else uncover any issues or ideas for the wrappers?
<keescook> [topic] next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  next meeting
<keescook> I propose same time & place in two weeks...
<jdstrand> cool by me
<propagandist> sounds good
<keescook> okay, Apr 24th, 2000 UTC #ubuntu-meeting.
<keescook> thanks everyone!  yay quick meeting!  :)
<keescook> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 22:21.
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Apr 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-11
<DPic> please digg http://digg.com/linux_unix/An_Open_Letter_to_Filmmakers_that_Use_Linux
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<freeflying> @schedule shanghai
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: Current meeting: MOTU 17 Apr 05:00: Server Team | 24 Apr 05:00: Server Team | 01 May 05:00: Server Team
<siretart> meeting?
<Pici> supposedly
<freeflying> seems they forgot :)
<\sh> meeting today, right?
<siretart> \sh: meeting now :)
 * siretart hugs \sh 
<freeflying> the topic show it is now
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> who will drive today's meeting?
<persia> It's meeting time.
 * siretart is at work, and could need to leave at any time :( - sorry
 * \sh is in the very same situation
 * persia has an agenda item, and so shouldn't chair
 * dholbach has an item on the agenda too: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<james_w> hi all
<persia> Pici: freeflying: james_w: Any of you want to chair (or someone else)?
<siretart> hey james_w!
<james_w> I could, it's my first MOTU meeting though
<james_w> hey siretart
<freeflying> persia: I haven't attendded quite long, don't know how :)
<Pici> I'm not here ;), just wandering in and out.
<dholbach> ok, I'll do it then
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:04. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Who will write the minutes and publicise them?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Who will write the minutes and publicise them?
 * persia volunteers, if people are willing to wait ~24 hours
<dholbach> I think that's perfectly acceptable or does anybody else prefer to do it?
<dholbach> ok, seems that you won, persia :)
 * siretart agrees
<dholbach> [ACTION] persia to take notes and publicise them.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to take notes and publicise them.
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Use, nomenclature, and requirements for the Universe Hackers (Ubuntu Contributing Developers) team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Use, nomenclature, and requirements for the Universe Hackers (Ubuntu Contributing Developers) team
 * persia puts away the magnets
<dholbach> persia: can you give a very quick summary of the plan or a link so everybody can dive into the topic?
<persia> OK.  So, the Community Council gave us a new group with which we can grant membership, or other things, it got a name that didn't make everyone happy, and I did a poor job with the announcement.
<persia> So, I'd like to review and discuss the three aspects of the new team, so we can have agreement, and move forward.
<persia> Firstly, I'd like to discuss the use of the team.  I think of it as a repository for various entitlements, but I'd like to hear from others.
<dholbach> Are there questions or suggestions at this point?
<siretart> about what teams are we talking atm?
<siretart> (there are so many of them that it gets a bit confusing..)
<persia> The ~ubuntu-hackers team.
<dholbach> ~universe-hackers :)
<\sh> So, when I understand it correctly, this new team is a subteam of ubuntu-members, and inherit the very same rights
<dholbach> \sh: that's correct.
<persia> \sh: Currently, yes.
<james_w> so we want to use it to give people membership and recognise the contribution to MOTU, but without giving upload rights.
<siretart> but members of that team are not necessarily given upload permission to the archive, right?
<dholbach> siretart, james_w: right
<james_w> sounds like a good idea to me
<persia> siretart: Rather they are specifically not given upload permission to the archive (unless they get it from another team)
<james_w> do we want to tie that in to other permissions, for instance REVU?
<siretart> okay, so the team has some (sort of) awarding character, right?
<persia> siretart: Right.  It's a restricted team, so MC needs to grant membership.
<siretart> james_w: I don't think so, TBH
<james_w> I think REVU is a bad idea as we want anyone to be able to propose a package don't we?
<\sh> james_w, yes
<siretart> james_w: right, ubuntu-universe-contributors is open for all
<persia> james_w: Certainly.  REVU is an open team, and should stay that way.
<siretart> persia: on the mailing list a few additional points were raised
<siretart> persia: e.g. should ~ubuntu-hackers be used for: a) bugs, b) bzr branches c) PPAs ?
<james_w> however, persia's suggestion that, for instance, this team, rather than ubuntu-dev, could be considered for write access to a VCS is a good idea.
<persia> siretart: That's part of what I mean by use.  I believe it could be useful for b), but not so much for a) or c).  On the other hand, I'd like to hear and discuss more with others.
<james_w> I think bugs may be a good idea, but we would want to discuss that with bugcontrol, who currently provide the easiest way to get that permission.
<persia> Err..  Rather I don't think it should be assigned or subscribed bugs.  There may be other ways it could be used.
<james_w> My guess is that they would be happy to kind of delegate the control of that to this team, as the members will have shown some competence.
<siretart> persia: let me ask the other way round: do we need a restricted team for code? if not, we could use 'ubuntu-universe-contributors'?
<dholbach> siretart: we could (just as an example) use it for ubuntu-dev-tools
<dholbach> so people who proved themselves by means of good contributions could commit tools there
<persia> siretart: Depends on your viewpoint.  There are a fair number of branches currently restricted to ~ubuntu-dev, rather than ~ubuntu-universe-contributors
<freeflying> they can not upload, just an award, then ubuntu membership can not suite?
<james_w> siretart: I think for code in VCS etc. the idea is that it will still get review before upload, so lowering the bar may be useful.
<james_w> however I'm not sure that an open team is great for that, as it decreases the trust you can have in the branches themselves.
<\sh> persia, but actually, we don't want non-granted-upload-rights-people to fiddle around with ~ubuntu-dev branches....because this is just as an upload, when something goes wrong,imho
<siretart> persia: exactly. my point is that we do have the option of moving the branches from ~ubuntu-dev to ~ubuntu-univserse-contributors (which would be completely unrestricted then)
<siretart> which might or might not be a good idea
<dholbach> I think in the end the decision will be that of the individual person who "maintains" or "looks" after that branch
<siretart> \sh: as long as those branches don't get (semi-) automatically updated by uploads, I don't see too much of a problem there
<persia> \sh: Maybe.  I'm not sure that there aren't people we'd be happy to have commit to a VCS for possible review, but for whom we'd be less happy with an upload.  I may be wrong.
<persia> siretart: True.
<persia> dholbach: Good point.  That is a branch manager decision.
<james_w> siretart: true, but some people may like to run the bleeding edge by tracking the branches.
<siretart> james_w: and who updates them?
<dholbach> Are there any other obvious entitlements or options that you see apart from the ones mentioned already?
 * cody-somerville waves and apologizes for being late.
<persia> So, aside from VCS (which is managed by the branch manager, and not necessarily us), what other uses do people see for the team?  How about social uses?
<james_w> siretart: I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.
<siretart> james_w: well, most probably I didn't understand your point then :)
<james_w> persia: you mean like having a party? :-)
<persia> james_w: Well, maybe, but also how people identify themselves and others, or interact.
<james_w> siretart: if we allow an open team to commit to branches then you have to trust the branches less, I think allowing this new team access is a good idea, but not an open team.
<persia> The key bit is that this is a tool to provide MOTU-originated membership (and maybe other things), so I wonder if we want to use it for anything else, and if not, what MOTU-originated membership would be considered to mean.
<siretart> james_w: okay, I agree to that!
<persia> james_w: That's exactly what I was thinking when I suggested it :)
<siretart> what about PPAs?
<james_w> persia: I think it's a good way to judge that you are dealing with someone fairly competent.
<siretart> you could argue the same way for PPAs
<persia> Can a PPA owner allow others to upload to a PPA, or are there only team PPAs?  In the former case, I think it would make sense.  In the latter case, I'm much less sure.
<james_w> you mean a new MOTU PPA?
 * persia thinks a MOTU PPA is very far from ideal
<james_w> As anyone can host there own PPA is there a need for a team one here?
<dholbach> To me it feels like the general use of PPA within MOTU teams (be it for testing or what not) could be discussed separately as we don't make use of it in any of our procedures.
<james_w> siretart: but yes, I think that the same argument applies to branches and PPAs.
<persia> It feels to me like we keep wandering off my intended target, which either means it's already agreed, or that nobody understands what I'm asking.
<persia> Would everyone feel comfortable with the following description of use:
<james_w> persia: I was happy with the structure of the original proposal fwiw
<persia> The new restricted team will represent MOTU-originated Ubuntu Membership, and may be used for other purposes, to be decided later, and as they come up.
 * dholbach is perfectly happy with that
<dholbach> Does this require a vote or is there anyone who has objections?
<james_w> persia: yes, I think further clarification that it would be useful in cases where we want to lower the barrier to entry, but where there would still be a review step before uploading.
<persia> In the absence of objection, let's move to the next question: nomenclature.
<siretart> sorry, was on the phone
<dholbach> [AGREED] The new restricted team will represent MOTU-originated Ubuntu Membership (this does not include MOTU membership, which is part of the existing MOTU process), and may be used for other purposes, to be decided later, and as they come up.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  The new restricted team will represent MOTU-originated Ubuntu Membership (this does not include MOTU membership, which is part of the existing MOTU process), and may be used for other purposes, to be decided later, and as they come up.
<persia> siretart: Let us know if you want to object
<james_w> I think the structure of open team->restricted team->MOTU is a good thing.
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Nomenclature of the new restricted team.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Nomenclature of the new restricted team.
<siretart> persia: I don't really object, I just didn't understand what the problem with MOTU or ~universe-hackers PPA is
<persia> siretart: OK.  I'll address that as #4, if Daniel doesn't mind waiting to start his topic.
<dholbach> persia: not at all
<siretart> persia: sure
<dholbach> Do we have proposals regarding the name of the team?
<persia> So, There are three names for the team.  The short name (LP group name), the long name (LP description), and the wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers name.
<siretart> as for the naming, it is a bit unfortunate that we have used that name in this meeting so much, so the name seems more or less set
<persia> The third is "Ubuntu Contributing Developers", which should be safe for use in any formal context (as the other names on that page).
<dholbach> siretart: I'm sure that if a good name comes up, people will be able to readjust their brains - it's not been used for weeks or months yet. :-)
<siretart> dholbach: ;)
<persia> The current short name is ~universe-hackers and the current long name is Ubuntu Universe Hackers.  As the group doesn't have any members yet, it should be safe to change it.
<james_w> what are the objections to that name?
<persia> Personally, I think the name doesn't matter so much, but I'm apparently wrong.  Those who feel strongly about the name are encouraged to submit candidates for discussion.
<siretart> persia: I don't think there were so much objections on that particular name, though...
<persia> \sh: Are you happy with that name?  You were active in the email thread
 * persia specifically excepts the use of "code monkeys" from discussion at this time
<\sh> persia, Ubuntu Contributing Developers is a nice one :)
<siretart> \sh: and the lp name?
<persia> \sh: It's what's on the wiki.  The dither is about the LP names.
<james_w> that clashes a bit with -universe-contributors doesn't it?
<dholbach> james_w: good point
<\sh> persia, hmmm...thinking about james_w he has a point
<persia> The other official candidate names that were proposed by CC members were "Ubuntu Engineering Contributors" and "Ubuntu MOTU Members".  I think the current compromise for the official name is the least confusing of the three.
<james_w> Debian has "Developers" and then "Maintainers"
<persia> Also, yes, james_w does have a point, and I think it's worth solving, but the last "solution" wasn't the right one, and I think it's easier to solve that later.
<james_w> though maintainers doesn't seem to fit universe that well
<persia> james_w: Yes, but Ubuntu specifically doesn't have maintainers
<siretart> james_w: yes, but their usage is pretty special, since there is also a difference between "Debian Maintainers" and "Package Maintainers"
<siretart> (the former one do have limited upload right, the later ones not)
<dholbach> Do we have any other suggetions?
<siretart> persia: I object. we DO have maintainers. we don't have dedicated maintainers for most of our packages.
<persia> siretart: I recognise your objection, and have opinions about it, but am not prepared to discuss that now.
<james_w> universe-helpers, but that sounds a little demeaning.
<siretart> persia: I agree
<siretart> persia: let's do that somewhen else
<persia> siretart: Sure :)
<persia> So, let's look at the three names again.
<siretart> hmm.. 'associate developer'?
<persia> Does anyone feel strongly enough about the wiki name to change it?
<james_w> yeah, universe-associates isn't too bad.
<james_w> universe-apprentices?
<ogra> sounds a bit like a company name .... universe-associates LTD.
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> mornin'!
<siretart> indeed
<siretart> hi ogra, hey nixternal!
<persia> I don't much like "apprentices", as I think most who can be members are more senior.  Maybe "journeymen"
<james_w> universe-collaborators
<ogra> "they sell you the world, we sell the universe"
<ogra> :)
<james_w> (yes, I have opened a thesaurus)
 * Hobbsee waves
<zul> sounds like something from the french resistance
<siretart> well, it seems that nobody objects too much about ~universe-hackers
<siretart> the main point is that it is a bit close to ~ubuntu-universe-contributors.
<siretart> a) is that really a problem? b) perhaps we could change the name of universe-contributors then
<Hobbsee> siretart: i'd like to raise the objection that a lot of people consider "crackers' to be hackers, and we'd probably prefer not to be thought of cracking our workplaces.
<Hobbsee> or be known as the conventional crackers
<persia> And it's a good point.  Do we want to adjust the wiki name, or do we want to look again at adjusting ~ubuntu-universe-contributors (and perhaps to something less frivolous)?
<siretart> Hobbsee: oh, I didn't think about that. right.
<persia> Hobbsee: Reasonable point.  Do you have an alternate suggestion?
<dholbach> persia: What do you mean by "adjust the wiki name"?
<Hobbsee> siretart: i'm ashamed to say that the sydney paper got this wrong recently :(
<Hobbsee> persia: i've just gotten home, i've not read the meeting log
<persia> dholbach: We have three names.  The wiki name ("Ubuntu Contributing Developers"), the LP Long Name ("Ubuntu Universe Hackers"), and the LP short-name ("universe-hackers").
<Hobbsee> persia: i don't, so far, sorry.  i've always been bad at names
 * Hobbsee would go for 1, but..
<persia> I think nobody is unhappy with the wiki name, but that Hobbsee raises a good point for the LP names.
<cody-somerville> novitiate? tyro? neophyte? greenhorn?
<persia> cody-somerville: Very much not so.  These people have made significant and sustained contributions to the development community.  They can be none of those.
<ogra> .oO(universe-terraformers)
<siretart> well, I don't think Hobbsee's point applies too much to the LP short-name, because the ppl using it are most likely to be aware of the meaning of 'hackers'
<siretart> I don't the LP long name to be used too much either...
<persia> Well, MOTU gets used a lot, and it shows on people's LP pages, which google finds...
<persia> On the other hand, with the right descriptive paragraph, it might not be so bad.
<Hobbsee> james_w: then again, REVU is an excellent way of filtering whether people can read instructions or not.
<cody-somerville> What about sage?
<siretart> MOTU is pretty special, since we use that name too much after all, IMO
<Hobbsee> james_w: it's disturbingly frequent that a person will throw a package at REVU, then never speak of it in ubuntu again (or at all), or get it uploaded another way, and never actually tell revu
<persia> siretart: Maybe true.  At UDS MTV, I think everyone agreed to transition to "Ubuntu Developers", although after UDS Sevilla, we seem to have gone back to MOTU.
<persia> cody-somerville: Well, not quite that far :)
<dholbach> if we were to go with something along the lines of "Ubuntu Contributing Developers" for the team nÃ©e as universe-hackers, it'd mean we'd have to rename ubuntu-universe-contributors - maybe it's easier to find a name for that team?
<persia> Anyway, I think we're not coming up with names now.  Let's use "universe-hackers" and "Ubuntu Universe Hackers" for now, and if someone has a much better name, let's review in a future meeting.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: and also raises the question about wheter ubuntu developers do not contribute.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: it is indeed tricky
<dholbach> Ok, let's vote on persia's suggestion?
<Hobbsee> and gives no real idea about which levels are above or below the others
<james_w> yes, it seems the people who raised an objection to that name are not in the meeting, so you could solicit feedback and suggestions on the list.
<dholbach> [VOTE] Use "universe-hackers" and "Ubuntu Universe Hackers" for now, and if someone has a much better name, let's review in a future meeting.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Use "universe-hackers" and "Ubuntu Universe Hackers" for now, and if someone has a much better name, let's review in a future meeting..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Hobbsee> 0
<siretart> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from siretart. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Hobbsee> +o
 * persia suspects the vote to be not valid, as the number of abstentions is huge
<Hobbsee> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Hobbsee. 1 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Hobbsee> -0.5
<Hobbsee> pity that doesn't work
<persia> dholbach: Could you please end the vote?  I think we'll need a name.
<dholbach> #endvote
<dholbach> erm....
<dholbach> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 1
<persia> Unless anyone objects, I'd like to look at requirements, then PPA. then defer to the next topic, and then we can look at names again.
<siretart> requirements of what?
<persia> (so please think up names while we cover the rest)
<dholbach> I feel we should not block on the naming of the team now - we all agreed that it's a good idea and that we should pursue it
<persia> Requirements for the new restricted team.
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Requirements for the new restricted team.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Requirements for the new restricted team.
<persia> An initial set of requirements is set out in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003523.html
<siretart> let's quote that list:
<siretart> * Have been working with Ubuntu development for some time, with a
<siretart> number of bugs fixed in the archives
<siretart> * Have a close working relationship with other members of the Ubuntu community
<siretart> * Have a clear plan for future activity
<persia> The resulting threads didn't seem to address them.  Are there any outstanding concerns?
<siretart> * Have updated their wiki page to meet the criteria listed on
<siretart> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto
<siretart> I think the requirements are rather strict, but that depends on how they are applied
<dholbach> siretart: which of the points should be less strict you feel?
<persia> ScottK did suggest replacing the first with * Have been working with Ubuntu development for some time, with a record of   of significant and sustained positive contribution
<Hobbsee> persia: i prefer scottk's version there
<siretart> the 'for some time, with a number of bugs fixed...' and the 'clear plan for future activity' part
<Hobbsee> siretart: yeah.  i'd fail the second test.
<dholbach> persia, Hobbsee: to me ScottK's suggestions sounds like something you'd say about a MOTU too
<Hobbsee> dholbach: well, i'm certainly a fan of the "sustained positive contribution" part
<persia> As most non-MOTU end up closing bugs with any upload (even new packaging), I'm fairly sure the bug closure part isn't that high a threshold.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: apart from that, eparse
<siretart> if it were to vote, I'd vote for taking ScottK's variation and dropping point 3
<persia> On the "clear plan for future activity", I'm not sure how that differs significantly from the "plans for the future" that are often required for a CC-based member application.
<siretart> well, there is always a obvious plan: heling out in the universe!
<dholbach> Hobbsee: to me "significant and sustained positive contribution" sounded like something you'd expect from a MOTU applicant too - I wondered where to "draw a line"
<siretart> which should suit the CC, but wouldn't the MC, AFAIUI
<dholbach> just in terms of the definition
<persia> siretart: Sure.  It's more about writing it down and the process of thinking about it, than the actual plan, in my opinion.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: er, is this still the team where you don't have upload rights, but are otherwise similar to motu, or?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: the "universe-hackers" team would be member of ubuntumembers
<persia> Hobbsee: Developer member without upload.  How similar to MOTU depends on other entitlements that have already been decided to be deferred.
<siretart> persia: as said, it depends on how those rules are applied.
<Hobbsee> persia: right
<Hobbsee> dholbach: then i'd drop hte significant part.
<persia> siretart: Makes sense.  I'm not opposed to Scott's wording, and I suspect the MC would take guidance from MOTU on application.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: if you have sustained good work, (rather than patchy good work, occasional bad work), then you fit that team.
<siretart> right
<persia> Speaking only for myself, I'm much more likely to consider sponsor comments than the merits of the specific application for this team.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: this was just my gut feeling speaking, not being a native speaker I sometimes wonder if the wording isn't too strict
<Hobbsee> dholbach: right.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: ideally, i'd like to word it so we don't get kmos-type people fulfilling the requirements of the team.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: which is why sponsors' comments are so important
<dholbach> ok... are there any other points in the proposed text that need adressing?
<dholbach> persia: are you happy with the feedback?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: true.  then again, all the good contributors would fit the extra clause without any extra effort, anyway
<persia> dholbach: I think so
<dholbach> shall we move on to the PPA discussion?
<persia> Just to make sure, am I correct in understanding that the consensus is to use the original suggestion, and modify with ScottK's change (excepting the doubled word)?
<\sh> grmpf..bad real life work
<siretart> Hobbsee: how about a point that any motu may veto any applicant to that team?
<dholbach> siretart: I think that negative feedback is as appreciated as good feedback and that it's discussed in the mailing list thread
<Hobbsee> siretart: yeah.  That would be a pretty good idea.
<siretart> on the other hand, such a negative feedback could be understood as failing point 2
<persia> siretart: Any MOTU?  How about a discussion, and if one person can't agree, we move on?  (on the other hand, if nobody argues against the negative feedback, I think it should stand as veto)
<siretart> so we maybe we don't need to mention that specifically
<dholbach> to me a 'veto process' sounds like overkill, negative feedback should be discussed though
<persia> siretart: I prefer that interpretation.  It allows us to disagree, yet still enforces cultural continuity
<siretart> persia: ok, with that interpretation, I agree!
<persia> siretart: To the original set, or the original set plus ScottK's proposal?
<dholbach> perfect - let's move on then
 * persia is happy either way, but wants to report the right thing in the minutes
<siretart> persia: plus ScottK's proposal
<persia> Great!
<persia> Next is the extra point, about PPAs.
<dholbach> [TOPIC] PPA usage
<MootBot> New Topic:  PPA usage
<Hobbsee> persia: i can't imagine people veto'ing lightly
<persia> My position is that a MOTU PPA is worse than useless.  If MOTU are coordinating changes in several packages, these belong in the archive.
<persia> Hobbsee: YEs.
<siretart> well, I wouldn't be too sure here
<persia> A universe-hackers PPA is possibly useful, but I expect ~200 members within six months, and that's a lot of coordination.  Especially when most of it belongs in the archive anyway.
<persia> siretart: What's an example of something you would put in a MOTU PPA that you'd prefer to your own (or some MOTU's)?
<siretart> ah, sorry, I misunderstood. I wanted to say that I could imagine a ~universe-hackers PPA being useful for testing transitions
<Hobbsee> persia: a large transition, to check fi it does work.
<persia> OK.  I can see the use of a ~universe-hackers PPA for transition testing (especially near release time).
<persia> My fear is that people might use it because it was semi-official by semi-official people, and a transition-testing PPA is almost always guaranteed to break things.
<Hobbsee> that's a point
<dholbach> Maybe we should discuss the idea of transition testing in a mailing list thread?
<persia> dholbach: That sounds sensible.  Maybe even result in a dedicated transition / NBS team
<dholbach> To me it sounds like the usage PPAs could be beneficial, but not a key part of the universe-hackers team.
<persia> Right.  Anyone object to discussing the use of a shared PPA for transitions to the mailing list?  If not, I'd like to defer to dholbach for the next topic on the agenda
<dholbach> What about the nomenclature?
<Hobbsee> persia: i'd like to add that they have to clean it out when they've uploaded the packages into the archive.
<dholbach> OK, let's do the MOTU Events team now then.
<dholbach> [TOPIC] MOTU Events team
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Events team
<dholbach> I'd like to add a new team to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Leaders
<siretart> dholbach: "point of order" - is the naming of the code monkey teams still on the agenda?
<dholbach> the plan for that team would be:
<dholbach>   * Team to organise and announce MOTU participation in events like UbuntuOpenWeek, UbuntuDeveloperWeek, Universe Bug Days, MOTU Meetings, MOTU Q&A sessions, etc.
<dholbach>   * Liaise with speakers
<dholbach>   * publicise and announce the event
<dholbach>   * document the events
<dholbach>   * help with organisation
<persia> siretart: It never was.  I specifically excluded it, as I didn't think there were any code-monkey supporters left.
<dholbach> Does the idea of this team sounds sensible? Does anybody like to add points to the team description?
<dholbach> if everybody likes the idea, I'd add it to the MOTU/Leaders page and ask for initial members of the team until the next MOTU Meeting
<dholbach> Comments?
<siretart> dholbach: do we already have people intereted in working in such a team?
<dholbach> there were people interested in running the Universe Hug Days and we had contributors to the Open Week and Developer Week
<persia> I think speakers for UbuntuOpenWeek and UbuntuDeveloperWeek, and MOTU Q&A sessions would fit well with other activities of MOTU School
<dholbach> what about Hug Days, announces of MOTU Meetings, general announces, liaison with people on the fridge, etc?
<dholbach> do you think the team is justified or should be merged with the MOTU School efforts?
<dholbach> james_w: what do you think?
<persia> If people would be willing to volunteer to take care of that steadily, I could see the use of a team
<james_w> I'd join the team if it was created
<dholbach> I certainly have an interest too :)
<persia> james_w: Do you see value in separation of administrative matters from presentations or Q&A sessions, from a MOTU School branding perspective?
<james_w> yes, I think there could be value, School as I see it is about education, rather than hug days and the like
<james_w> though they are similar, so it could work.
<dholbach> the members of the team should not necessarily be the ones presenting
<james_w> there hasn't been much interest in school, and I think experienced people may be put off from helping in a hug day if it is presented as a school thing.
<dholbach> james_w: one of the first aims of the team would be: more interest in MOTU School :)
<persia> Yes, but aside from the fact that I'm not likely to find time to spend on it, making my opinion weak, I'd like to see clearer and wider branding for MOTU School, as I think it is worthwhile, and not usefully confused with minutes, scheduling, general announcements, etc. (although the same people might be involved in both)
<dholbach> any other objections? things that should be improved in the proposal?
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<james_w> dholbach: I think the proposal is good.
<dholbach> persia: ah now I understand - I think that makes sense
<dholbach> OK... seems we have no general objections on the MOTU Events team then
<dholbach> thanks for the feedback
<dholbach> persia: ready to get back to nomenclature of the team nÃ©e as Universe Hackers?
<persia> Sure.  Did anyone come up with any good names while we discussed other things?
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Name of the universe-hackers team.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Name of the universe-hackers team.
<Hobbsee> no.  but i managed to submit my assignment.
 * Hobbsee curses evil, propriatery bits some more
<persia> Hobbsee: Excellent.  Congratulations.  Now you can turn your thoughts to nomenclature :)
<dholbach> What do you think about having a few minutes of collective brainstorming (everybody can +1/-1/+0 the suggestion - without long discussion) and once we have something that has at least 2 votes we can start to vote - the new members team is too important to get blocked on the name I feel
<dholbach> is here anybody who has a suggestion?
<dholbach> siretart, james_w, cody-somerville, Hobbsee, ogra, zul, \sh (and others)?
<siretart> I don't see a much better name than 'universe-contributors'
<siretart> sistpoty is currently next to me, he agrees
<persia> siretart: The issue there is the conflict with the current team.  We can use that, but what do we do for the open team?
<dholbach> siretart: what about ubuntu-universe-contributors then? :)
<siretart> let's rename that to 'revu-uploaders'
<cody-somerville> I disagree with that name.
<dholbach> cody-somerville: which?
<persia> cody-somerville: Which name?
<cody-somerville> ubuntu-universe-contributors for this new team
<ogra> dholbach, i like universe-terraformers ... but thats probably to far off
<cody-somerville> People who upload to universe and who are not a member of that team are still ubuntu contributors
 * persia agrees with cody-somerville after reading that argument
<cody-somerville> I think that ubuntu-universe-contributors should remain an open team which is used to sync revu keychain
<cody-somerville> The name of this new team should reflect their elevated status.
<james_w> ogra: universe-transformers?
<ogra> james_w, sounds cool as well :)
<Hobbsee> siretart: yeah, same here @ universe-contributors
<persia> The issue with "universe-terraformers" or "universe-transformers" is that they fall into the class of silly names that were part of the reason for the rejection of "code monkeys" last week.
<zul> men-at-arms (although a bit sexist) but it keeps with the motu theme
<siretart> indeed
<james_w> persia: yeah, I agree.
<dholbach> I still like the idea of sticking to universe-hackers (to not block the operation completely), but choose either a new name for ubuntu-universe-contributors or universe-hackers in the next meeting or by mail
<siretart> cody-somerville: the suggestions is to rename it to 'revu-uploaders', which remains open and FFA
<ogra> persia, monkey is more degrading than terraformer or transformer
<siretart> that fits the purpose better anyways
<persia> ogra: Depends on viewpoint, but I think either fails ScottK's request that it be something that can be discussed in a business meeting without raising eyebrows.
<ogra> persia, but generally thats right indeed
<siretart> <sistpoty > collect 15 banans to become a universe-contributors, collect further 30 bananas, to become MOTU...
<ogra> yeah, lets replace karma !
<dholbach> . o O { hmmm, Bananas... }
<dholbach> I don't see any traction behind any suggested new name right now - shall we defer the discussion to either mail or the next meeting and unblock the new member approval process?
<siretart> perhaps we should really stick with ubuntu-hackers for now. as for revu-uploaders, I think we should do that anyways, but that needs further discussion with sistpoty and nixternal.
<siretart> and is not the point right now.
<dholbach> I suggest we collect proposals until the next MOTU Meeting and vote then.
<persia> dholbach: The issue with unblocking is that new members of the team may be attached to their new status, or blog about it, etc.  These people may be unhappy if we later change it.
<ogra> if you go with the business meeting argument hackers is a really bad name
<dholbach> persia: we won't change the status of team membership - it's the name of the team
<cody-somerville> siretart, I don't object to renaming the team to revu-uploaders. Just naming this new one ubuntu-universe-contributors is not appropriate, IMHO.
<persia> dholbach: Sure, but it's about internalised identity in the members, not about the entitlements associated thereunto
<dholbach> How do do you feel about deferring the name decision?
<persia> I'd prefer not to defer, but in the absence of any candidates upon which we can agree, and given the meeting is overlength (and we still need to do "other businesss"), I'm willing to raise it again at the next meeting.
<dholbach> Ok.
<dholbach> I will solicit feedback on naming candidates in the meantime.
<dholbach> so we have a basis for discussion
<persia> Thanks :)
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other business?
<dholbach> 3 ...
<dholbach> 2 ...
<cody-somerville> I have a question.
<dholbach> 1 ...
<dholbach> cody-somerville: shoot
<Hobbsee> there shall be no questions!
<cody-somerville> Are we going to be doing any brainstorming about the Ubuntu Developer team at UDS? If there are no current intentions, I'd like to see something organized. Either a team building activity or a discussion on how we can improve some of the standing complaints about morale, apathy, and the longevity of contributions once someone is approved as a developer.
<dholbach> cody-somerville: would you be happy to start a wiki page with "UDS topics" and solicit feedback?
<persia> cody-somerville: I don't know of any official plans, but that sort of thing has been discussed unofficially at at least the last two UDSs, and was official at the previous two.
<cody-somerville> Sure.
<dholbach> cody-somerville: thanks a lot
<dholbach> any other business?
 * Hobbsee just hopes it gets input from those who are not at UDS, who are interested.
<Hobbsee> seeing as that is often a problem
<dholbach> let's discuss that in the mailing list thread or on that wiki page :)
<persia> Hobbsee: For at least Seville and Boston, there was a session about that sort of thing that was available over VoIP, although not so many ML threads.
<dholbach> Next Meeting: April 25th 20:00 UTC.
<dholbach> thanks everybody for your input and good discussion
<Hobbsee> persia: true.  i was thinking if it didn't get made official, or got discussed outside the official times as well as inside
<dholbach> Meeting adjourned.
 * cody-somerville waves.
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:52.
<dholbach>  Logs available at http://blackbird.kaarsemaker.net/mootbot/meeting
 * dholbach hugs y'all
<persia> Hobbsee:Well, there's not much helping that, but I suspect interested parties not at UDS will be just as influential towards a final resolution as anyone present.
<Hobbsee> persia: i hope so, but having been to UDS, i know how hard that is
<james_w> thanks all
<nealmcb> Today's motu meeting in particular is at http://blackbird.kaarsemaker.net/mootbot/meeting/ubuntu-meeting.20080411_1404.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-13
<Hobbsee> @now new york
<ubotu> Current time in America/New_York: April 13 2008, 03:46:45 - Next meeting: Server Team in 3 days
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-06
<cody-somerville> Is the CC meeting going to occur now?
<jpds> cody-somerville: That's tomorrow (if Google calendar is something to go by).
<jpds> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda confirms.
<cody-somerville> oh doh
<cody-somerville> Today is Monday
<knome> lol
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-07
 * persia peers about
<persia> Oops.  Wrong Week
<PmDematagoda> persia: isnt the meeting now?
 * elky nudges persia
<persia> I thought so too, but I checked the wiki page, and it's next week (the 14th)
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<elky> aha
<PmDematagoda> oh
<PmDematagoda> well, then I'll have to withdraw my name for now
<PmDematagoda> until my exams are over
<persia> And you've been there so long :(
<PmDematagoda> persia: no worries
<PmDematagoda> persia: to be rather honest, Ive been forgetting this meeting for months :)
<elky> we all have
<PmDematagoda> elky: Ive made a reminder application to help me attend, looks like it works well :)
<elky> i have one of those too. it's called a phone.
<PmDematagoda> elky: lol
<elky> it reminds me and i look in here, see a lack of amachu, and forget about it for the next week
<PmDematagoda> elky: I still havent put that in, hopefully I can do that after my exams :)
<egbert> ?
<egbert> ?
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> [Technical Board]
<cjwatson> mdz,Keybuk: here?
<Keybuk> yup
<mdz> yep
<jono> hey folks
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Internal Support For Community Development (Daniel Holbach)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Internal Support For Community Development (Daniel Holbach)
<cjwatson> dholbach doesn't seem to be around
<cjwatson> jono: can you speak to this one?
<jono> Daniel is on holiday
<mdz> I don't know what this is referring to
<cjwatson> this seems to be a carried-over item; it just doesn't look familiar and I can't remember what it was about
<jono> I am not sure what this is referring to either
<cjwatson> Maria appears to have added it on the 24th March
<cjwatson> rev 190 of the wiki page
<cjwatson> randa: ?
<mdz> I think it was taken out of context and we can skip it
<jono> ok
<cjwatson> remove from agenda for next time then?
<mdz> done
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Codecs in ffmpeg (Reinhard Tartler) (cf. Debian #522373)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Codecs in ffmpeg (Reinhard Tartler) (cf. Debian #522373)
<cjwatson> this is carried over; is there anything new?
 * siretart` waves
<mdz> Daniel sent a followup to technical-board@
<siretart`> AFAIUI there is no requirement to strip of encoders from the orig.tar.gz for 'main'.
<mdz> with more questions from siretart
<mdz> jono is working on writing up a clear policy based on the guidance from sabdfl at the meeting
<mdz> he sent me a draft overnight, which I haven't had the chance to review yet
<siretart`> as a small update, I've filed the same questions as debian bug #522373 with some possibly relevant references
<mdz> jono: would you mind sending it direct to t-b@ so it doesn't block on me?
<jono> mdz, no problem
<cjwatson> siretart`: the encoder/decoder identity wrt MPEG LA patent enforcement is new information to me. At least at one point, I was under the impression that encoders were enforced more rigorously than decoders. Is this a relatively recent change?
<siretart`> if there is no requirement to strip of the source, the package names -unstripped- are misleading at best. does someone have better names for the multiverse packages?
<cjwatson> "full"
<siretart`> cjwatson: according to my research, the taxes for MP3 and AAC are higher. for mpeg2 and co they are the same
<mdz> do we consider these patents "alleged" or "judge-tested" per sabdfl's guidance?
<siretart`> cjwatson: I'm happy to learn about other references though
<cjwatson> siretart`: I'm speaking about whether they are in practice enforced, rather than what the financial considerations are in the event that they are enforced
<siretart`> cjwatson: to my research, they are only enforced when selling products containing them. I have no indication that mere source-code distribution is enforced
<siretart`> and TBH, mere binary distribution does not seem enforced as well, since ubuntu already shipped them in the past
<siretart`> and others as well
<cjwatson> selling products based on Ubuntu is something we support, of course
<siretart`> that's of course no proof
<siretart`> indeed. we blacklist these packages from the livecd, after all
<siretart`> and thus, from the default install
 * cjwatson nods
<siretart`> practically, for jaunty, this lead to 3 changes:
<cjwatson> mdz: are we in a position to answer siretart's e-mailed questions yet, or do we need to review jono's proposed policy first?
<cjwatson> unfortunately I hadn't seen the latter before this meeting
<siretart`> a) no longer munge libavcodec/allcodecs.c in the ffmpeg source
<cjwatson> siretart`: for jaunty? what are the release-critical bugs being fixed by a proposed change here?
<siretart`> b) enable (some) encoders in libavcodec52
<siretart`> c) rename the multiverse -unstripped- package to a better fitting name
<jono> cjwatson, the patent policy is a general  document that ultimately ends in "reviewing serious cases"
<siretart`> cjwatson: well, ok, not really release critical, but I'd like to do the changes now and have them ready for karmik
<mdz> cjwatson: I don't think the policy helps yet; it doesn't provide guidance on making the decision, only process (and thus needs work)
<jono> so the continued review of this case can continue while the document is prepared
<mdz> cjwatson: under the circumstances (we have no inquiry made by a patent holder), I think what siretart wants to do is OK, but since this is the first time we've applied this guidance, I'd like to confirm with sabdfl first
<cjwatson> mdz,siretart: from what I can tell, I agree, but I would prefer the package rename to be deferred until karmic since that will involve changing reverse-dependencies
<mdz> cjwatson: agreed, I don't see an indication that this is urgent or RC and so would default to leaving it alone for 9.04
<mdz> that will also give us time to get the policy finished, and a final OK
<siretart`> cjwatson: I don't think this will involve changing any reverse-dependencies, but I'm also happy to delay this for karmic
<jono> I will continue to drive forward the patent policy and try to get something in place for the  next TB meeting
<siretart`> mdz: the next question will be what to do about AAC, MP3 and h264. the h264 encoder is currently in multiverse, which could then be prmomoted to universe (which would get us vlc in universe as well)
<cjwatson> siretart`: xine-lib
<jono> I am keen to get this documented as complete as possiblesoon
<siretart`> mdz: but that'
<cjwatson> also aqualung, audacity, blender, ...
<siretart`> mdz: but that's strictly speaking offtopic right now
<cjwatson> siretart`: (from grep-aptavail unstripped)
<mdz> jono,cjwatson,Keybuk: let's aim to process all of the feedback on the policy and have a proper draft ready for the next meeting
<jono> mdz, agreed
<cjwatson> right
<Keybuk> mdz: agreed
<cjwatson> siretart`: thanks for your patience on this
<siretart`> cjwatson: yes, but we'd need transitional packages anyway.
<mdz> jono: is it OK if we just edit your draft directly?
<cjwatson> siretart`: right, best done at the start of a release cycle rather than the end :)
<jono> mdz, sure
<siretart`> cjwatson: of course
<mdz> cjwatson: actions?
<cjwatson> oh, sorry
<cjwatson> [ACTION] TB to process feedback on Jono's proposed patent policy and complete draft by next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  TB to process feedback on Jono's proposed patent policy and complete draft by next meeting
<cjwatson> [ACTION] mdz to confirm siretart's proposed ffmpeg changes with sabdfl
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to confirm siretart's proposed ffmpeg changes with sabdfl
<cjwatson> anything else?
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Archive Reorganisation (Colin Watson)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Archive Reorganisation (Colin Watson)
<cjwatson> sorry, I have no progress on that this week owing to being flat-out on jaunty
<cjwatson> I believe the Launchpad changes are still on track
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AB
<cjwatson> err
<jono> from my last check in with Daniel there was no further progress on the community side of the project other than organizational work
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<cjwatson> nhandler asked me a few days ago if we could keep https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Technical up to date
<mdz> nothing from me
<Keybuk> I'm good
<cjwatson> I was not entirely keen on the prospect of having to update yet another page with an IRC log, and asked whether it would be OK if we just linked to the mootbot log
<cjwatson> any objections to that?
<mdz> cjwatson: hmm, surely between the fridge and mootbot that should be automatable
<cjwatson> mdz: you would have thought so, but ...
<cjwatson> (and that was more or less my reaction too)
<cjwatson> I'm not overly familiar with the world of automatic wiki editing myself
<mdz> cjwatson: we can ask randa to help with that if needed
<cjwatson> in the meantime, how about I put a note on our standing agenda next to "update TeamReports"
<cjwatson> if it's just a link, it isn't too onerous
<mdz> ok
<cjwatson> has somebody been in contact with vorian to follow up from the last meeting?
<jono> I spoke to him on the phone
<cjwatson> I had a brief mail thread with him, CCed to technical-board@
<jono> also I know nixternal has been in touch with him
<cjwatson> I would like to know whether we should be scheduling a separate meeting with him at some point to reconsider him
<jono> he did not mention any plans to consider an application again
<cjwatson> it seemed to me that trying to cram it into the end of a TB meeting was part of the problem
<jono> I think the barrage of questions at the same time was a factor too
<jono> (mainly due to the lack of time)
<cjwatson> yes, that stemmed from the meeting format
<jono> maybe we could consider soliciting answers to questions on a wiki page
<mdz> I'd like to revisit at some point how we process applicants; a panel interview is not necessarily the ideal format
<jono> and then ask further questions in the meeting
<jono> mdz, agreed
<mdz> jono: could you take that on as part of your governance review?
<mdz> jono: by the way, how is that going wrt the TB?
<cjwatson> jono: or an e-mail interview
<jono> mdz, no problem
<jono> mdz, it has been bumped a few times, but on-going
<jono> I should have something ready soon
<jono> likely for the next meeting
<cjwatson> (I find wikis to be a poor means of conversation, I don't imagine I'm the only one; I would prefer applications not to be a form-filling exercise)
<jono> cjwatson, email interview could make sense
<jono> my worry about email is that it could drag on for a long time
<jono> whereas with a wiki the main questions could be answered first and then reviewed and discussed in the meeting
<cjwatson> jono: could well be better than meetings every two weeks ;-)
<jono> heh, wise point
<cjwatson> e-mail seems workable in the MC; not ideal of course, but they do seem to make progress
<cjwatson> (nowadays, anyway)
<jono> why don't we try email first
<egbert> is this the right place/moment to briefly discuss the server install script?
<cjwatson> egbert: I'm not sure. What is the specific question?
<egbert> I was wondering if there is a special reason to choose for just DHCP in the network settings. Why not a choice between fixed/dhcp?
<mdz> egbert: what server install script?
<cjwatson> you can cancel the DHCP progress bar and get a choice, or you can use expert mode
<mdz> oh, you mean the installer used for the server edition
<cjwatson> I don't think this is appropriate for this meeting though
<cjwatson> you can ask questions about the installer in #ubuntu-installer
<egbert> OK, then  I shut up.
<egbert> will do, tnx
<cjwatson> it sounds like we're finished here
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:34.
<cjwatson> I'll write stuff up
<Keybuk> thanks cjwatson
<Keybuk> and mdz
<mdz> thanks all
<egbert> bye
 * Keybuk heads for breakfast
<jono> thanks
<james_w> it's interesting to the MC just moved *to* IRC interviews for applications, and now the TB is considering moving away from them
<ttx> OK, who's here for the server team meeting ?
<jamesrfla> I am
<sommer> yo
<nijaba> o/
<ttx> You guessed it, the incredible mathiaz is unavailable, so you'll have to bear with the less-incredible me as your host.
<zul> morning
<zul> the more french ttx?
<ttx> yes. The true one.
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ttx> Last week logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090331
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> That should be quick, since there weren't any.
<ttx> Unless someone wants to comment on some of last meeting points ?
<ttx> I'll suppose not. Let's move on to:
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap
<ttx> Anyone has any progress reports ?
 * ttx feels very lonely :)
<sommer> it's just that things are going really well :)
<jamesrfla> Not really sure what to say. First meeting with you guys
<ttx> sommer: did you get some reviewing on the Server Guide ?
<ttx> sommer: how much is it OK to change things after StringFreeze ?
<sommer> ttx: yep there was some
<sommer> ttx: at this point it's very bad I guess translation freeze is tomorrow
<sommer> ttx: but we can always fix issues with the karmic branch :)
<ttx> sommer: likewise-open 5 apparently requires reboot before you can attempt a GUI login as a domain user. I uploaded a version that warns the user, but I thought adding it to the doc might also be a good idea
<ivoks> o/
<sommer> ttx: ah, ya that will probably have to be in karmic
<sommer> ttx: or an SRU
<ttx> sommer: ok. A bug is filed anyway.
<sommer> ttx: cool, I think I rember seeing it
<ttx> OK, let's move to Open bar^Wdiscussion
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
<jamesrfla> what can we talk about in the open discussion?
<ivoks> anything server related
<ttx> jamesrfla: anything :)
<ivoks> sorry for being late
<ttx> So FinalFreeze is coming up this Thursday
<ttx> if you have critical bugs (especially regressions) that have yet to be fixed, it's almost your last chance
<jamesrfla> Does anybody have any suggestions for running two server os on one computer
<ivoks> uh, already?
<ttx> ivoks: April 9th
<jamesrfla> hey that is my birthday ttx
<ivoks> well, i sorted everything i had :)
<egbert> Any chance that the postfix-dovecot mail system will be enhanced with amavis/spamassassin/etc?
<ivoks> egbert: not for jaunty
<egbert> offcause  not. but for KK?
<ivoks> egbert: but that and much more should arrive in karmic
<zul> if we dont work ivoks to the ground then then no
<ivoks> it's not that i have that much to do
<egbert> OK for the near future I'll install from .deb of taball
<ivoks> tarball?
<egbert> sorry...
<ivoks> anyway, that's not meeting material
<egbert> no
<ttx> Nothing else anyone wants to mention ?
<ivoks> i do
<ivoks> we rock!
<ivoks> :D
<jamesrfla> lol
<sommer> heeeh
<ttx> \o/
<jamesrfla> Go Ubuntu server :)
<ttx> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<ttx> Same time, same bat-channel, next week ?
<sommer> sure
<jamesrfla> Can we make it another time or something. This time I can't make it
<jamesrfla> The only reason I am hear today is because of my spring break
<ttx> jamesrfla: what would be your availability ?
<jamesrfla> Maybe 2PM eastern US time and any other time after that
<ivoks> next week is spring break too
<ivoks> jamesrfla: well, i don't want to be rude...
<ivoks> but most of us are from europe
<ivoks> :D
<ivoks> 2pm eastern us is... quite late in europe
<ttx> jamesrfla: team is across Europe/US so US mornings are the best time
<jamesrfla> oh I see. Well just as long as you guys are okay with me not being hear all the time. Only days off I can make it
<ivoks> s/most/part/
<ttx> ok, so we'll keep the current time then
<sommer> jamesrfla: there's a log, and the meeting minutes are usually posted to the server mailing list and blog
<ttx> Anyone has anything else to add ?
<ttx> Please ?
<zul> i do...not really...hah kidding!
<jamesrfla> okay sommer I will take a look at them when I miss the meeting
<ttx> #endmeeting
<ivoks> ttx: i was hoping we would beat the record this time :)
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:19.
<jamesrfla> short meeting
<egbert> no, I'm off to the kitchen... 17:20 here (NL)
<jamesrfla> fine with me :)
<ttx> ivoks: well, I'll beat the record of the most boring meeting minutes, that's for sure.
<ivoks> ttx: well, it would be a problem if we had something to discuess so late in release process
<ttx> I couldn't prepare something funny, I didn't know I would chair this one 30 minutes ago
<nealmcb> that was quick....
 * ttx hugs nealmcb
<nealmcb> :)
<sommer> ttx: a horse walks into a bar... and the bartender says why the long face?
<ttx> nealmcb: if you have something interesting to add, I'll make sure it makes it to the meeting minutes.
<sommer> ttx: that one's always funny :-)
 * nealmcb hugs the whole server team (except those that are hug-averse)
<jamesrfla> :)
<jamesrfla> I did a science fair project on Ubuntu server and got 1st place at science fair
<ivoks> yay
<nealmcb> I'm still wound up in IDtrust and ElectionAudits and Android work so haven't been finding time for much server team stuff - sorry to say....
<nealmcb> jamesrfla: cool - what did you do?
<jamesrfla> I benchmarked Ubuntu server edition with apache2 and Windows server 2008 standard with IIS and see how fast they could reply with a response and how many pages it could send at once
<jamesrfla> I also got a renewable one year scholarship to my local college along with first place
<ivoks> static html?
<jamesrfla> For some reason Ubuntu server wouldn't go past 400 clients at once. There was some security thing. Windows server 2008 was able to get up to 3000 clients before giving out errors. For my final results I just tested the servers up to 400 cliesnt
<ivoks> er?
<jamesrfla> ivoks: I tested too saved web pages. A saved cnet.com page and a picas web album
<jamesrfla> ivoks: er?
<ivoks> which apache mpm?
<jamesrfla> ivoks: mpm?
<ivoks> yes, apache has diferent MPM's for diferent loads
<nealmcb> i.e. how threads are handled
<ivoks> for static html, worker MPM would be better than prefork
<ivoks> for php, worker with fastcgi is faster and better for server than prefork
<ivoks> prefork just provides some functionality worker doesn't and is easier to set up :)
<jamesrfla> Oh yeah I remember now. I tried to configure it so it would go over 400 clients but after a few days trying to get it working and time running out I had to give what I had
<jamesrfla> I just got the default apache2 from the repository
<ivoks> apache can do over 400 concurent connections without a problem
<ivoks> jamesrfla: there are couple of apache2 in repository :)
<ivoks> jamesrfla: did you install php5 module?
<jamesrfla> ivoks: I did sudo apt-get install apache2
<ivoks> ok, that was probably worker
<jamesrfla> ivoks: no I didn't. Maybe I should of gone to the #ubuntu-server for help on this. I went to #apache
 * jamesrfla hugs the Ubuntu Server team (unless somebody doesn't want to get hugged) 
<jamesrfla> Cya later Ubuntu server team for now
<hggdh> er, well, aren't we late?
<Ampelbein> hggdh: 20:00 UTC
<Ampelbein> hggdh: andreas@apophis:~$ date -u
<Ampelbein> Tue Apr  7 19:24:05 UTC 2009
<hggdh> Ampelbein, heh. As usual, got confused by daylight
<Ampelbein> yeah, we had the change last week and i was irritated, too. as well were my cats ;-)
<charlie-tca> 1/2 hour yet, isn't it?
<Ampelbein> true
<andol> Ampelbein: Hey, got kind of confused there for a short while, seeing "my" name in a promt like that :)
<Ampelbein> andol: ;-)
<hggdh> Andreas :-D (almost was my son's name, got the Portuguese version in the end)
<andol> Well, I guess it's too good of a name to keep to one self :-)
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, Pricey, popey, stgraber, phanatic: POKE :)
<forumsmatthew> here
<popey> here
<phanatic> here
<Seveas> Pricey and stgraber both said that they might have problems being on time today, so I suggest we start without them
<forumsmatthew> okay
<jpds> Isn't it the CC meeting now?
<Seveas> LirazSiri, you're up first, please do your 3-line introduction.
<Seveas> jpds, no, that's in an hour
<LirazSiri> Hi everyone
<popey> hmm, fridge says now
<Seveas> really?
<LirazSiri> I'm from Israel, a member of the news team, the co-founder of TurnKey Linux and an Ubuntu enthusiast all around
<popey> mistake Seveas , the wiki says 21:00 UTC
<Seveas> pfew
<LirazSiri> On the Ubuntu news team I've been involved with UWN
<LirazSiri> In charge of 6 sections since issue #126 (we're at issue #137 now), help some minor editing before that.
<cody-somerville> Is this the EMEA?
<popey> cody-somerville: yes
<Seveas> LirazSiri, the mails we received earlier this week worry me. Why are you not cooperating with the team but doing your work independently?
<LirazSiri> Seveas: there are time zone differences
<Seveas> cooperation does not need to be real-time
<LirazSiri> the UWN team is based in Arizona, I'm based in Israel. I've been guided into a role that does does need real-time collaboration. I have been collaborating with the team via Email whenever the need has arised. Most of my work for UWN is very well defined. I asked in advance if working solo would be a problem and the team said no.
<popey> LirazSiri: other than the news team and TurnKey, are there other positive ways you've contributed to Ubuntu that we can see?
<LirazSiri> Well I don't know if this counts, but I'm the editor for the Ubuntu category on DMOZ
<popey> I meant specifically towards the ubuntu project, bug tracking, loco work, answers, forums, wiki edits and so on.
<Extend> so i'm not included
<Extend> or not yet?
<popey> Extend: not yet
<Extend> ok how much time ?
<popey> Extend: 5 more people before you
<Extend> cause i want to go and come back after a short period
<charlie-tca> Extend: goes right down the list on the wiki
<Seveas> Extend, please wait your turn. We follow the list on the wiki in the order it is now
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA see that list Extend
<Extend> okay thank you
<popey> np
<popey> LirazSiri: still there?
<forumsmatthew> LirazSiri, I'm not seeing much community involvement outside of the UWN, and with the discomfort your team mates there are feeling at the moment, I'm having trouble seeing how we could consider your membership.
<LirazSiri> IMHO, my main contribution to Ubuntu has been as a developer of Ubuntu appliances. I've helped introduce thousands to Ubuntu as a server platform. That's what I've been receiving the strongest positive feedback for from the community.
<popey> ok, understood
<LirazSiri> my team mates aren't uncomfortable with my contribution, or my work at all
<popey> does turnkey have its own community?
<LirazSiri> they've testified for me
<Seveas> LirazSiri, the mail received yesterday says otherwise. John clearly didn't want to endorse you then but now I see a testimonial. That confuses me
<LirazSiri> you guys have to understand that the rest of UWN is very tightly nit geographically. They're all Arizona locals. I guess that's part of the reason I've been viewed as a bit of an outsider. Nobody is questioning my work though.
<LirazSiri> Seveas: John has written a testimonial on my behalf on my wiki page.
<popey> I don't believe the UWN team works in quite such a black and white manner as you put
<Seveas> LirazSiri, yes I see. I find that puzzling and would like to know what made him change his mind
<forumsmatthew> FWIW, I am also an Arizona local...
<LirazSiri> Seveas: communication
<popey> I am inclined to agree with forumsmatthew, I'd like to see a more sustained spread of work through the community
<LirazSiri> regarding the TurnKey project, it's an extension of the Ubuntu community
<Seveas> well, UWN work is good, but is turnkey a contribution to ubuntu or a 'competitor'?
<forumsmatthew> I see a reference to adequacy, not really a stellar endorsement in John's or Kenny's testimonials
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, yeah, that's what I read in it as well
<LirazSiri> I do some development, but mostly help write documentation, tutorials, answer questions on the forums. None of it is unique to the project.
<forumsmatthew> The Turnkey website is nice looking, and it seems like a good project. I'm not sure that is community involvement, but it looks like good stuff.
<popey> I'm going -1 for now due to lack of concreate testimonials, and a lack of breadth of work within Ubuntu.
<LirazSiri> Seveas: I think you are influenced by the tone in the emails you read before. I think we cleared up the air afterwards
 * Pricey tries to catch up
<LirazSiri> http://www.turnkeylinux.org/tracker
<Pricey> Apologies for being late.
<LirazSiri> that's a good way to see the breadth of involvement. We're helping thousands of users with the project.
<Seveas> LirazSiri, then why are there no links to said documentation and forum things on your wikipage? How are we supposed to know about them if you don't tell us?
<popey> We have quite a few people to get through and a hard time limit chaps
<forumsmatthew> LirazSiri, the tracker page shows that you are active in supporting your project. That is great! It doesn't show activity in the greater Ubuntu community.
<LirazSiri> Seveas: that's a good point. I was led to believe that because our sister project was not part of the official Ubuntu project it would not be considered. I really don't agree with that, but it led me to downplay that contribution
<Seveas> yeah, I'm going for -1 now. Additional contributions should be documented and I want to see a solid endorsement from the UWN team
<LirazSiri> Seveas: what is missing in the endorsement in your opinion?
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, Pricey, phanatic: a vote please
<forumsmatthew> popey is right. We need to move on. I need to -1 for now with a comment to read Seveas comment above
<Seveas> LirazSiri, what forumsmatthew said: <forumsmatthew> I see a reference to adequacy, not really a stellar endorsement in John's or Kenny's testimonials
<LirazSiri> so you're saying what is lacking is enthusiasm?
<Seveas> what is lacking is an actual endorsement
<popey> and a breath of work
<popey> breadth
<popey> why can i never spell that
<forumsmatthew> What is lacking is a sense of "wow, this guy is a great asset to the Ubuntu community!!" rather than a "yeah, he's okay."
<forumsmatthew> and what they said...
<popey> Pricey: ?
<LirazSiri> well, what can I say. I've done the work and I consider TurnKey to be a notable achievement, but you are entitled to think otherwise.
<Seveas> and phanatic?
<popey> LirazSiri: nobody said turnkey wasn't notable
<Pricey> Sorry, searching a failing for the email referred to earlier.
<phanatic> i haven't read the discussion you all refer to, so i'd stay at 0.
<forumsmatthew> LirazSiri, the tracker page shows that you are active in supporting your project. That is great! It doesn't show activity in the greater Ubuntu community.
<forumsmatthew> That's a quote of what I said earlier.
<LirazSiri> the download stats show that there is a huge amount of objective interest from the community. 8000 downloads just last month...
<popey> Anyone can sit back and watch a download counter click over
<LirazSiri> Many of these people hadn't previously considered Ubuntu as a server platform.
<Seveas> Pricey, phanatic: the mail was only sent to popey and myself. I will forward it to you
<cody-somerville> LirazSiri, Is there any particular reason you host your own forums instead of integrating with the official Ubuntu forums?
<popey> Downloads do not a community make
<Pricey> Seveas: aha. makes sense!
<LirazSiri> popey: it's not as simple as that. You have to make good stuff and support it for people to be interested
<LirazSiri> We don't do any marketing, so people are recommending this to each other by word of mouth after they've used it themselves and have received support on the forums
<Seveas> ok, let's move on to the next candidate. LirazSiri let's discuss a bit more tomorrow and see if we can get things cleared up
<popey> By all means discuss it with us via mail.
<Seveas> knome, you're up, please introduce yourself
<LirazSiri> ok guys, thanks for your consideration. ttyl
<Pricey> I think we could come to a better conclusion that way yes.
<popey> Seveas: no, its ianto next
<Seveas> I see no ianto in the nicks in this channel :)
<popey> ooo
<jpds> ianto isn't around and isn't on Jabber either.
<popey> silly rabbit
<Seveas> so knome is up :)
<Seveas> idle for 2.5 hours, knome when you arrive poke me
<Seveas> moving on to tuxlinux
<popey> maybe this list isnt as long as I first thought
<Seveas> tuxlinux, please introduce yourself
<Seveas> also idle for a while. tuxlinux, knome: please be in time for meetings :)
<Seveas> andol, are you here?
 * andol is here
<popey> \o/
<Seveas> excellent, please introduce yourself :)
<andol> Hello, my name is Andreas
<andol> As a computer user I'm very much the system administrator. Besides having it as my profession it is also kind of my primary role in the Swedish Ubuntu LoCo.
<andol> Perhaps not suprisingly, most of the bugs I triage are related to the server team.
<andol> (Also been doing some general translations)
<Seveas> andol, how do ddtp-ubuntu and ddtp in debian cooperate?
<andol> Seveas: From what I've understood, there are some exports being done upsteam to Debian.
<Nafallo> andol: don't forget to mention your debdiff patches to bugs have been sponsored... :-)
<popey> Nafallo: are you here in support of andol ?
<Nafallo> popey: can be a quickie if needed. as long as I don't have to IRC from the shower :-)
<popey> TMI
<Nafallo> he got root on my VPS hosting the ubuntu-se.org and he's quite quick on answering my questions about PHP and such :-)
<Nafallo> I do support him.
<popey> I'm seeing bugs filed and replied to, albeit not a tremendous amount, and a small amount of translation via launchpad.
<andol> popey: Well, I guess I'd say my primary contribution has been in the LoCo.
<Nafallo> oh!
<Seveas> long time activity in swedish loco (and I have a weak spot for sysadmins) make me lean towards a +1
<Nafallo> well worth mentioning is long standing user support in #ubuntu-se :-)
<Seveas> but I do feel that loco work could be better supported
<Pricey> Do we have anyone else from -se to cheer?
<Seveas> s/supported/documented/
 * popey points Pricey at Nafallo 
<forumsmatthew> I see activity over a sustained period of time, and some good testimonials. I'm +1
 * Pricey points popey at 'else' :P
<forumsmatthew> I liked the last line of the second testimonial on the wiki page
<forumsmatthew> "he is always very kind and helpful, a good representative for the Ubuntu spirit"
<popey> indeed
<phanatic> +1 the others have already explained why :)
<Seveas> phanatic, lazy :P
<Pricey> ah both of those cheers are from the leaders of the LoCo
<popey> that helps
<popey> not some random dude like Nafallo ;)
<popey> +1
<Nafallo> yeah. founder of loco must be a bad one ;-)
<Pricey> Yep I'm happy to give +1 too.
<Seveas> k, welcome aboard andol!
<forumsmatthew> congratulations!
<andol> thank you.
<Nafallo> Congrats andol!
<Seveas> Ampelbein, you're next
<popey> Keep up the good work!
<iGama> Contratz
<Nafallo> andol: you owe me three beers! :-)
<Ampelbein> Hi there. I'm Andreas, 29 years old from germany. My regular job is as IT-Supporter/System-operator working from home. I have been active in the community since last year, mostly in bug-triaging, packaging and helping on IRC.
<jpds> congrats andol!
<Ampelbein> In the field of package upgrades I started with some simple tasks and am now starting to work on more complex packages, like library updates. In bug triaging, I have learned quite a lot on what information is needed for upstream to fix the bugs reported.
<tuxlinux> congrats andol
<Ampelbein> In the future, I want to be more active in bug fixing and sending upstream, trying to take work away from the developers. Also, I want to continue my journey towards becoming a MOTU. Thanks for your consideration.
<Seveas> I like the feedback template thing (and those endorsements as well)
<Ampelbein> Seveas: i "borrowed" that from the developer-application-template ;-)
<popey> we should use that template!
<tcross> Hi.  This is my first time at a meeting and my friends and I were wondering wWhy does ubuntu-server use vim-tiny, and not vim?
<popey> tcross: ask in #ubuntu-server :)
<Seveas> tcross, this is not the meeting for such questions
<tcross> sorry
<tcross> will do
<popey> I see a lot of development work, would this membership request not be better off going through MOTU?
<Seveas> Ampelbein, between september and march I see no uploaded packages. What happened?
<Ampelbein> Seveas: little time and a hospital visit.
<popey> Wow! Look at all that bug work!
<Ampelbein> so i focused on other things
<Seveas> fair enough
<jpds> Seveas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/DeveloperApplicationTemplate
<Ampelbein> which don't take that much time.
<Seveas> can you give some examples of advocacy you did?
<popey> I'm going to +1 based on great bug work and a testimonial from seb
<Ampelbein> sure. whenever i am asked to give some aid in computers I bring a cd of ubuntu to show them, how easy things could go.
<Pricey> I'm confused about karma and things on launchpad, 8 translations viewable though a huge amount of translation karma?
<Seveas> Ampelbein, ok, last question from me: why take this route towards membership instead of the motu route?
<Ampelbein> also, i try to persuade people that having a non-legal copy of windows for business use
<Ampelbein> Seveas: i'm not confident i have what it takes to become a MOTU right now.
<forumsmatthew> I don't see how I could do anything but give a +1 to someone who is so active in making Ubuntu better, and who has good testimonials.
<Ampelbein> need some more learning i thing.
<forumsmatthew> MOTU is a great goal, and I hope you pursue it actively
<Ampelbein> think. blah.
<popey> :)
<Seveas> good answer
<Seveas> +1 from me
<forumsmatthew> even so, I think there is adequate evidence of activity
<Ampelbein> Pricey: the karma comes from uploading packages where the upstream translations are imported.
<Pricey> Ampelbein: aha. Thanks.
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, yeah, evidence good, testimonials ok and plans clear :)
<phanatic> +1, hope to see you as a motu soon
<Ampelbein> thanks. i'm sure I will ;-)
<Pricey> I'll go with a +1 too. The MOTU don't bite though!
<Seveas> some of them do...
<Pricey> Seveas: you enjoy it.
<Ampelbein> thanks for all the positive feedback.
<Seveas> ah, I missed forumsmatthew's +1
<Seveas> so, you're there, congrats!
<forumsmatthew> congratulations!
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, Ampelbein
<jneves> Ampelbein: congratulations
<Ampelbein> thank you very much.
<bdmurray> Ampelbein: congrats!
<iGama> congratz
<phanatic> welcome, Ampelbein
<Seveas> Extend, you're next
<tuxlinux> congrats Ampelbein
<Extend> ok i am ready
<Seveas> then please introduce yourself :)
<Extend> my name is mohamed zaian , im from egypt alexandria , i work as a linux systems administrator in a large company in middle east
<Extend> i started work with unix/linux systems earlier in 2002/2003
<Extend> got introduced to FreeBSD by a friend
<Seveas> Extend, you're lying on your wikipage: {*} Member of Ubuntu members Launchpad team.
<Seveas> that's not true yet ;)
<Extend> i worked with FreeBSD many years till 2005/2006 i had many good contributions in the old bsdforums.com and, then
<Extend> oh Seveas this is a mistake
<Extend> not a lie i can't lie on that
<Pricey> Wow 1200 people attended the install fest?!
<Extend> yes Pricey
<popey> Extend: some nice integration how-tos on your blog - be nice to see them on the documentation wiki
<Extend> i can show you the pics
<Seveas> Extend, if you read along in the meeting, you know that we value testimonials/endorsements highly. Given that your contributions seem to be limited to the egyptian locoteam, I would like to see some comments from other community members
<Extend> popey, i will but u know no much time to do everything but i will do my best
<popey> :)
<Extend> Seveas, we are having a problem in egypt loco team
<Pricey> Extend: can only help
<forumsmatthew> I've been reading the EGLUG site (I speak some Arabic...) and am enjoying the mix of languages.
<Extend> forumsmatthew, that's nice
<Extend> Seveas,
<Extend> the admin of the loco team is away
<Extend> i talked in #ubuntu-locoteams to jono bacon and nick ali
<Extend> we r in talks to change the leaderhsip and to let the guys work
<Extend> we have many members and they are active and good
<Extend> the loco team channel is dead
<Extend> i want to refresh that
<Seveas> Extend, the admin being away sure doesn't mean that nobody can comment on your work :)
<Extend> if you read the mailing list of our team you you will notice about what im talking about
<Seveas> is the mailing list in english? (I do not speak arabic I'm afraid)
<Extend> Seveas, yes you are sure
<Extend> yes it is in english
<forumsmatthew> As I am looking through everything, I think you show a lot of promise. What I would like to see, along with Seveas, are more comments from people who know you and can effectively describe your contributions
<Extend> i can help you translate arabic using some tools in ubuntu ;) and on the web
<Extend> forumsmatthew, wait i will get some friends here
<forumsmatthew> That would be great!
<Extend> ok just give me minutes
<popey> I can see a lot of enthusiasm, but the launchpad answers work started the same time as membership was applied for, and very little bug work
<forumsmatthew> FYI, we need to surrender the channel in just over 5 minutes...
<Pricey> Several teams joined on the 4th too.
<Extend> popey, u r right i was away and i wasn't learn using launchpad that much
<Pricey> Extend: Did you say you had some photos?
<Extend> Pricey,  yes give me a moment
<popey> I prefer to see a sustained effort over a period of time, before I would say yes to membership.
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, we can continue elsewhere if needed :)
<Extend> this is the fest page in facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/home.php#/pages/Alexandria-Egypt/Linux-Install-Festival-in-Alexandria/50973332573?v=wall&viewas=613900569
<Extend> some photos of the fest are here
<Extend> http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo_search.php?oid=6707385873&view=all
<popey> \o/ happy people using ubuntu
<Seveas> I'm going for -0 now, Extend you're showing good membership potential, but more documentation and endorsements would be very welcome
<Extend> popey, we r getting more ppl
<Extend> Seveas, i don't know what to say
<Extend> thank you :)
<popey> I too will go 0, because I can see you're enthusiastic and clearly want to contribute to your loco, but would like to see a more sustained effort
<phanatic> Seveas: +0 looks better :)
<Extend> http://www.eglug.org/node/3154 this was from the bib alex sessions
<Seveas> Extend, just say that you'll continue to do good work, and that you'll fix up your wikipage and come back in 2 months ;)
<popey> maybe come back after 3 months?
<popey> 2.5 months :)
<Seveas> :-)
<Extend> i will continue my work whatever happens from you guys
<Extend> cause i love to do that
<Seveas> ok
<forumsmatthew> Yeah, me too. +0. I think you show great potential and I want you to come back with more evidence to help us gauge your activity, and some testimonials
<popey> Awesome!
<Pricey> I think I'm going to go -1 sorry. I would agree with the others that I think we would like to see a more sustatined contribution, and get some people cheering for you (as well as photos!)
<Extend> and it some kind of love to this world
<Extend> Pricey,  i posted the photos link
<Extend> here it is http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo_search.php?oid=6707385873&view=all
<Seveas> CC is moving into this channel now. Pricey phanatic popey forumsmatthew jneves hggdh (and those who want to join), please come to #ubuntu-emea-meeting for the rest of the EMEA meeting of today
<Pricey> #ubuntu-emea-meeting
<popey> ooo
<Seveas> elmo, the floor is yours ;)
 * popey picks up his glass and coaster, and shuffles over to #ubuntu-emea-meeting
<forumsmatthew> I hope the CC has a great meeting...I'm heading off to #ubuntu-emea-meeting
<Extend> so i'm done?
<popey> yes
<Extend> thanks
<Technoviking> afternoon all
<Technoviking> anyone else here for the CC meeting?
 * elmo is
<elmo> we seem to be under represented by CC people though
<Technoviking> don't think there is anything on the agenda, since we finish the FC votes.
<elmo> yep
<elmo> anyone with any other business?
<elmo> (otherwise I think we may as well nix this particular meeting)
<Technoviking> I love a smooth running community:)
<elmo> yeah!  well done community for not needing governance!  ;-)  (or at least, not our governance)
<Technoviking> ok, neet meeting will be in two weeks, then it is time for Jaunty love!!!
<cody-somerville> lol
<mako> hi
<mako> i guess i missed that :)
<Seveas> you didn't miss much :)
<mako> apparently not :)
<Extend> !ping
<ubottu> ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-08
<SiDi> Hello
<SiDi> I've got a question for the catalan folks about UDS :)
<Hobbsee> they don't have a loco channel?
<SiDi> Well, i think they're around
<SiDi> That's the channel for the UDS, right ? :O
<Hobbsee> er, no?  This is the channel for scheduled ubuntu meetings.
<SiDi> Ok, i failed then
<SiDi> Sorry :)
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> hello :)
<Extend> hello;)
<TheMuso> Greetings folks.
<liw> yo
<james_w> hi
 * slangasek waves
<evand> hi
<cjwatson> hi
 * robbiew is more tired from a flight from Austin to San Francisco, than from Austin to London 
<robbiew> :/
<robbiew> Going to make this quick, so I can catch my free breakfast :P
<james_w> heh
<TheMuso> haha
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Jaunty
<MootBot> New Topic:  Jaunty
<robbiew> Anyone have some nasty bugs that I should be aware of?
<cjwatson> bug 356518 sort of worries me if only because there's absolutely no indication of what's going wrong
<liw> does it count that I can't read e-mail right now?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 356518 in grub "HP ML110 fails to boot with grub after server install via PXE / serial console" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/356518
<cjwatson> but you're already aware of that
<robbiew> yes...aware of that one
<robbiew> :)
<robbiew> ok...I'll take silence as goodness....and not folks are just too beat to talk
<robbiew> :P
<cjwatson> james_w: have you got anywhere with bug 271962, or does it need help?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271962 in consolekit "VT-switching from X returns you to X the first time" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271962
<james_w> yeah, I'm a bit stumped as to where to look, but I haven't spent much time on it
<robbiew> james_w: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/ubuntu-foundations-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<slangasek> 350016 has been milestoned by doko, it looks like the python.m4 in automake could use some love yet (rather than just relying on a horrible hack in python get_python_lib(), ugh)
<robbiew> ok
<james_w> robbiew: well, I meant where to look in the code, but thanks :-p
<robbiew> james_w: heh
<robbiew> I know...just joking
<robbiew> I posted a couple of youtube videos on our boot performance
<robbiew> compared to Windows 7
<robbiew> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVeSbuVB14
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVeSbuVB14
<robbiew> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocYhEZlakXQ
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocYhEZlakXQ
<robbiew> we are neck and neck on my X301
<robbiew> but KILL on the eeePC 900 :)
<robbiew> about the same on Suspend/Resume on the X301
<evand> very cool!
<cjwatson> I did a bit of test rebuilding recently using the new LP-native test rebuild feature, but we had to stop it because it turned out to spam buildd admins
<cjwatson> infinity is doing one using the old infrastructure now
<cjwatson> I filed seven bugs just for packages starting with 'a' from my run, though
<robbiew> cjwatson: whoa
<cjwatson> mostly universe, though
<cjwatson> in fact I think all universe, so no cause for immediate panic
<liw> THE UNIVERSE IS BROKEN! WE ARE ALL GOING TO VANISH IN A BIG BANG!
<robbiew> BIG BANG = Computer Janitor Gets Overzealous
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Karmic
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic
<robbiew> jono on us managers to start getting blueprints ready...so just an fyi
<robbiew>  /s/on/is on
<cjwatson> blueprints for the top-down items, or also for ideas from the team?
<robbiew> I will create the ones for the internal roadmap items, but if you have some...make sure to let me know
<robbiew> top-down and ideas :)
<robbiew> I think we plan on having the UDS schedule ready by April 27th
<slangasek> robbiew: let you know, or push them to the wiki?
<robbiew> wiki is cool, as I'm subscribed to it
<robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/UDS/May2009
<robbiew> [TOPIC] OEM/Platform Exchange
<MootBot> New Topic:  OEM/Platform Exchange
<robbiew> So...the Platform team was asked to exchange 3 engineers with the OEM team for 6 months
<robbiew> not permanent
<robbiew> to help both teams understand better what the other does...and how we work
<liw> 6 months is pretty permanent at this pace of development... :)
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> doko has graciously accepted the challenge :)
<liw> so for clarification, the people who go visit the OEM team would do what?
<robbiew> OEM stuff
<robbiew> heh
<TheMuso> So what happens with the toolchain work doko usually does?
<cjwatson> they'll be working as regular members of the OEM team, more or less
<robbiew> TheMuso: opportunity for others to step up ;)
<cjwatson> likewise, the people transferring to us will be working more or less as regular members of the platform team
<robbiew> we still need to work out the details
<TheMuso> Ok
<robbiew> and I suspect doko will not be 100% gone
<robbiew> we would miss him :)
<cjwatson> the toolchain is mostly ready for karmic, but:
<robbiew> mterry will be coming over to our team...
<cjwatson>  * we'll need people to keep an eye on glibc and gcc bugs, and forward them as appropriate (particularly in the case of gcc bugs that may block builds)
<cjwatson>  * somebody's going to need to keep OpenJDK ticking over
<cjwatson>  * Python 3.1
<cjwatson> (and related python issues)
<liw> just Python 3.1 and not all Python versions?
<cjwatson> Python 3.1 is the bit that will involve most effort, I should think ...
<cjwatson> doko can speak for himself on other things that he does, of course, but there is definitely some temporary handover needed; as robbiew says, hopefully we can use this as an opportunity for some cross-training
 * liw would love to learn Python ;-)
<liw> (otoh, I'd even more love to write stuff in Python, but hey...)
 * robbiew puts liw down for python
<robbiew> :P
<liw> hm, doko is also the Python maintainer in Debian
<cjwatson> doko mentioned to me that he was likely to continue doing some things in his spare time where he's the Debian maintainer
<robbiew> right
<robbiew> there are still a lot of details to work out on both sides
<cjwatson> I don't think we can fairly expect to rely on him for Ubuntu work; obviously he'd be welcome but it wouldn't be fair to expect it
<robbiew> but wanted to let folks know now
<robbiew> right
<robbiew> We are also getting a "loaner" from the Launchpad team :)
<robbiew> Muharem will be doing a short tour of the Foundations Tea
<robbiew> Team
<robbiew> (we don't have to send anyone back)
<robbiew> cjwatson: how long?  I've forgotten :/
<cjwatson> I think the current plan is three months
<robbiew> right, thnx
<cjwatson> he's one of the Soyuz developers, as many of you will know, and part of the idea is to help them get a better idea of how we work from day to day
<cjwatson> we've done some brainstorming, but suggestions for smallish projects tractable by a good Python programmer would be welcome
<TheMuso> I'd offer to take the OEL challenge, however there is a fair amount of shifting sands with accessibility in the next 6-12 months, particularly speech wise, which I'd prefer to remain on top of.
<TheMuso> OEM even
<robbiew> TheMuso: Thanks.  we have our 3 platform team members for this round
<robbiew> but I'll keep that in mind for the next one...assuming there is one :P
<robbiew> I'd like to setup team mentors for both Mike Terry and Muharem
<liw> robbiew, what time zones are they in?
<robbiew> I think mvo would be good for Muharem :)
<robbiew> liw: Muharem is in Germany (I think) and Mike is in the Eastern US
<robbiew> evand would be good for Mike Terry...but he moved to the UK :/
<evand> heh
<robbiew> though I am a mentor for hugh blemings (Kernel team)...and he's in australia
<robbiew> so it can work
<robbiew> but I suspect that we need closer timezones than US central and Australia for a technical mentoring relationship :)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/Good News?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/Good News?
 * evand can still do it if there is no better fit
<TheMuso> Yes, meeting times./
<robbiew> ah yes
<cjwatson> IIRC we only have Steve still in the US
<liw> Finland and US/Eastern have a couple of hours of overlapping time for 9-17 work hours, so if no-one else is better suited, I can expose my ignorance of everything and mentor mterry
<evand> Debconf?  What are we supposed to do with respect to registration and travel?  Is Maria handling this?
<robbiew> evand: yes, randa is handling...through the wiki page
<liw> good news: I upgraded my laptop to jaunty and only had to file two bugs; the upgrade itself was pretty smooth (except that we _really_ need to figure out something like ucf into dpkg proper so all pacakges get it)
<robbiew> are you listed on it?
<evand> yes
<robbiew> then your good
<evand> ok
<slangasek> robbiew: still waiting for a green light to answer the DebConf CfP
<liw> robbiew: still waiting for a green light to answer the DebConf CfP
<randa> robbiew, Debconf..sorted today... Im registering everyone
<robbiew> randa: ^^?
<robbiew> randa: is the call for papers issue resolved?
<TheMuso> So... Meeting time for me is currently 1 AM, which works for me today due to heading away for the easter weekend, however this is a slightly annoying time for me. If the meeting were either 1 hour earlier, or 2 hours later, I could either stay up if earlier, and work early again if later
<randa> robbiew, give me a minute. Busy now, YES everything done.
<cjwatson> randa: are we required to submit papers
<cjwatson> ?
<liw> randa, yay
<robbiew> she used CAPS...so I will leave her alone now :)
<robbiew> cjwatson: no
<randa> robbiew, lol. Just a minute guys
<robbiew> randa: no worries...I need to get to the Linux Collaboration Summit in a few anyways
 * liw is happy to move meeting time up to 9 hours earlier :-)
<slangasek> "resolved" would be that I know it's ok to submit the talk
<slangasek> which I still don't :)
<robbiew> TheMuso: Ok
<robbiew> TheMuso: let me check the Fridge Calendar to see what conflicts (if any) we have...then I'll let folks know which way we move it
<slangasek> moving the meeting 9 hours earlier sounds nice to me :)
<TheMuso> robbiew: ok thanks
<robbiew> I suspect it will be earlier....not 9 hours earlier though
<mvo> 9h would be ok for me too, but not much more :)
<TheMuso> Earlier is fine, since I'll just stay up for it.
<robbiew> ok...gotta run to the Linux Collaboration Summit kickoff (in 15min)
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:46.
<robbiew> thanks@
<liw> thanks
<slangasek> have fun kicking off :)
<evand> thanks
<robbiew> heh
<james_w> thanks
<TheMuso> thanks
<mvo> thanks
<heno> hey
<davmor2> Hello
<schwuk> Hi
 * ogasawara waves
<pedro_> holas!
<jtholmes> hello
<fader_> Howdy
<sbeattie> hey
<heno> bdmurray: meeting ping
<davmor2> heno: is that different to a normal ping :D
<bdmurray> hi
<heno> ara is on holiday and I've pinged cr3
<heno> ok, we can start!
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> We celebrated the xorg hug day last Thursday
<pedro_> it was pretty good as you can see per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090402
<pedro_> and we also got nice comments from the maintainer
<pedro_> Big Thanks to paulduf, gsmx, carlos3.14 and cwillu.com for their great work during the event
<pedro_> Tomorrow we're going to have a Hug Day based on Bugs with Patches
<pedro_> the page and list of bugs is already up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090409
<pedro_> and there's already people working on them ;-)
<bdmurray> Yeah, I just saw somebody updated a patched bug with a debdiff
<pedro_> and i need to inform that i'm not going to be around tomorrow (i'm taking a holiday)
<pedro_> so if any of you guys can be around #ubuntu-bugs to help people there would be perfect
<bdmurray> I'll be there!
<pedro_> I'm sure the documentation that bdmurray set up will help a lot :-)
<pedro_> thanks bdmurray
<heno> great, thanks pedro_ and bdmurray
<heno> [TOPIC] New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<bdmurray> No news this week.
<heno> ok
<heno> [TOPIC] Next Testing day topic & highlights from last UTD -- heno
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Testing day topic & highlights from last UTD -- heno
<davmor2> Didn't really happen I was too busy an ara is on hols
<heno> We sort of botched this one in Ara's absence :(
<davmor2> next week will be smoke testing
<heno> We didn't send out an announcement the week before
<davmor2> heno: I thought there was one on the friday
<heno> right, next week it starts getting serious with RC smoke testing
<heno> davmor2: on the blog?
<davmor2> heno: pass I might of been dreaming
<heno> I don't see one
<davmor2> heno: me then :)
<heno> we should start smoke testing ISOs tomorrow/Friday really
<heno> I know davmor2 has already started
<jtholmes> what do you mean smoke testing
<heno> sbeattie: are you running some upgrade testing?
<davmor2> jtholmes: general testing
<davmor2> heno: oh did they get unfrozen
<sbeattie> yes, I've been doing some upgrade testing, will do more.
<bdmurray> hasn't mvo automated upgrade testing with ec2?
<davmor2> heno: mvo froze them on friday I didn't know they had been unfrozen
<heno> jtholmes: we do a quick sanity test of as many ISO images as possible to make sure they are generally in good shape for full validation testing next week
<jtholmes> heno gotcha
<sbeattie> yes, upgrades have been unfrozen, the issue around python-central/python2.6-minimal has been fixed.
<sbeattie> davmor2: ^^^
<davmor2> sbeattie: cool ta
 * sbeattie got hit by it on one machine, so was quite interested in its resolution.
 * davmor2 plans upgrades on hw tomorrow then :)
<heno> bdmurray: he does some scripted testing but I sleep better when we supplement that with some testing of more real-world over-loaded installs
<bdmurray> heno: makes sense, I wonder if we could use his infrastructure / tools though
<heno> finally on testing days: the one after next will also be ISO smoke testing
<heno> the next two weeks will be continual ISO testing really
<heno> fader_: how broad is our automated install coverage now?
<davmor2> heno: and lot's of it :D
<sbeattie> bdmurray: I'll talk with him about it.
<heno> all alternates i386 and amd64 every day? :)
<fader_> heno: We're getting the official builds: desktop, server, kubuntu, ubuntu studio, and alternate
<fader_> Both i386 and amd64, yes
<davmor2> fader_: did cjwatson say whether his fix for lvm worked?
<heno> fader_: do we have a way of seeing if there are gaps in that coverage?
<fader_> heno: It's still high on my list to get a better report that reflects the breadth of testing we're getting, so we don't have a good way of seeing gaps right now
<heno> is the distribution random or pre-determined?
<fader_> davmor2: He thinks it did... we should know soon.  I'll be watching it for the next couple of days to see if it happens again.
<jtholmes> I have been testing 386 ios's ubuntu and kubuntu every day for the last week and plan to continue
<fader_> heno: The distribution happens as CD images are posted, so as soon as a new image is posted it gets put into the queue to be tested
<bdmurray> jtholmes: that's great!  How are you reporting any bugs you find?
<fader_> So it's semi-deterministic? :)
<jtholmes> thru lp
<bdmurray> Do you also add then to iso.qa.ubuntu.com?
<heno> jtholmes: great! please let us know in #ubuntu-testing if anything turn up broken
<cr3> heno: what kind of gaps might you have in mind? like that some flavour is not being tested for an extended period of time?
<davmor2> bdmurray: not for smoketests
<jtholmes> bdmurray, no I did not know about that will look there though and note any
<cr3> heno: one thing we could do is make the builds page on the certification website publicly accessible, it doesn't contain any private data
<jtholmes> heno ok will do
<heno> fader_: ok, so semi-random we would see failures if the right ISOs get picked
<heno> cr3: interesting, let's look at that afterwards
<davmor2> fader_: what happens when more than one image is released in a day?
<fader_> heno: Right... at the moment we might potentially miss an error in one flavor if another flavor were consistently being tested after it every time
<fader_> heno: In practice I think the probability of this is reasonably low, but it's still something I'm aware of
<heno> ok
<fader_> davmor2: They get queued up and tested one after another
<davmor2> fader_: ah okay cool
<fader_> davmor2: cr3 has created a very nice system for scheduling the tests and making sure the images are all getting picked up
<heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuOpenWeek call for topics! -- jcastro
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuOpenWeek call for topics! -- jcastro
<cr3> davmor2: I detect every image which appears on cdimage.u.c and releases.u.c which get enqueued for testing
<heno> We can certainly do a desktop automation session
<heno> we have done some general triage sessions in the past
<heno> should we done some where we focus in more detail on a package?
<sbeattie> a "writing apport hooks" topic?
<bdmurray> sbeattie: that's more appropriate for Developer week I think
<heno> How about we announce our intention to do that and ask the community to suggest which packages we should cover triage for?
<sbeattie> bdmurray: ah, okay.
<pedro_> btw the prep page is at : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
<davmor2> heno: how about checkbox always a fav
<heno> ok, jcastro doesn't seem to be here so we'll move on
<heno> davmor2: also for dev week I think
<heno> [TOPIC] QA team landing page - suggestions and additions -- schwuk
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team landing page - suggestions and additions -- schwuk
<heno> http://people.ubuntu.com/~schwuk/homepage/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~schwuk/homepage/
<schwuk> Fairly self explanatory - this is the start of the new QA landing page
<davmor2> nice
<fader_> I like it... very nice
<pedro_> cool
<schwuk> There's some cleanup to be done, and more text added, but is there anything people would lkike to add?
<heno> schwuk: where should we collect feedback about missing items etc?
<heno> will you set up a wiki page?
<pedro_> would be nice to add the upcoming events related to qa? like hug days, testing days, meetings ?
<schwuk> heno: yes
<sbeattie> pedro_: agreed
<heno> pedro_: +1
<davmor2> pedro_: +1
<heno> we need an easy way for many people to edit that
<bdmurray> something like a revision control system
<heno> right, a file in restricted access bzr
<pedro_> yeah git
 * pedro_ runs
<bdmurray> heh
 * schwuk chases pedro_ with a stick
<pedro_> hehe
 * davmor2 lends schwuk his hammer it hurts more than a stick
<schwuk> The homepage will be moved to a bzr branch soon, but the events could be pulled from anywhere e.g. a QA Team calendar
<sbeattie> can we pull the QA only events out of fridge's calendar?
<pedro_> we're adding those to the fridge
<davmor2> schwuk: is there a qa-calendar?
<schwuk> sbeattie: I'm sure we can
<heno> schwuk: will you research a suitable solution to that?
<schwuk> heno: yes
<heno> when should we aim to roll this out properly?
<sbeattie> that would be ideal, given how poorly we are at updating the wiki page header.
<schwuk> I'm creating a page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/HomePage to track comments etc.
<davmor2> heno: after jaunty
<heno> it would be good to have it for open week
<bdmurray> when is that again?
<heno> 27th+
<heno> schwuk: shall we milestone the roll-out for the 27th?
<schwuk> heno: sure
<heno> (it's almost ready now IMO)
<heno> thanks
<heno> [TOPIC] Bugsquad mentors project -- pedro|heno
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bugsquad mentors project -- pedro|heno
<heno> We were talking about doing more active mentoring of people starting out with triage
<heno> similar to the MOTU program
<heno> pedro_: do you have a link to the MOTU one?
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<heno> where a new triager would have a contact point
<heno> this would also encourage specialisation
<heno> developers and bug control folks should be encouraged to mentor
<heno> any volunteer mentors in this meeting? (and is this a good idea?)
<pedro_> right now we have only a list of people to contact if you need help with something https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Contacts
<pedro_> but not a lot of people know about that list and i wonder how many of the people listed there was contacted
<bdmurray> I get contacted a lot but I'm not sure its because of that list. ;-)
<heno> bdmurray: it's also tricky to identify a speciality for you :)
<jtholmes> bdmurray, contact by email or irc or???
<heno> there is a student column on the page so we can try to balance out the mentoring load
<davmor2> heno: no bdmurray=Bug Dude
<cr3> davmor2: so do people misinterpret that as "Dude to bug about bugs"?
<bdmurray> e-mail, irc, via launchpad
<heno> sbeattie: is regression/sru triage a category in this context?
<davmor2> cr3: either way the bugs get fixed :)
<sbeattie> heno: sure.
<heno> bdmurray: anything you'd care more to mentor than other things? apport-hook issues?
<bdmurray> heno: crazy bug queries, consolidating duplicates, writing apport-hooks / package bug guidelines
<bdmurray> heno: update-manager / compiz as packages
<heno> iow, 'advanced bug management techniques'
<heno> ok, cool
<heno> that's a good start
<heno> I'll update the wiki and email the dev list asking for other topic mentors
<heno> Any other business?
<jtholmes> yes
<jtholmes> the test cases
<jtholmes> starting with the accessories section
<jtholmes> terminal calculator text editor
<jtholmes> the same names should be used in ubuntu and kubuntu test cases
<heno> ref: http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Applications
<jtholmes> but to do that they have to have a prefix etc. any ideas
<davmor2> jtholmes: Right realised what you on about now just name them like this /kubuntu/calculator
<jtholmes> or calculatorku  calculatorub  and then both can have  texeditor as page name
<Riddell> jumping in.  do the test cases cover checking translations?
<davmor2> Riddell: no but good point
<jtholmes> davmor2, ok can do
<heno> only gets a brief mention in ISO test cases AFAIR
<Riddell> davmor2: that's pretty important, especially since we just changed important parts of our translation setup
<davmor2> Riddell: I think I did for keyboard and lanuage selection
<davmor2> language even
<heno> we should probably just have a separate translations test case or plan
<heno> fader_: can you work with davmor2 to design one?
<davmor2> heno: I can add it to system tests and it can get pulled into various tests from there
<fader_> heno: Sure
<heno> right and we can then have a plan that pulls in that intro plus various other desktop tests
<davmor2> fader_: I'll throw an outline together tomorrow morning for that
<heno> thanks fader_ and davmor2
<fader_> davmor2: Thanks! :D
<heno> AOB?
<bdmurray> Yeah, I just learned about a new feature of apport-collect I wanted to share
<heno> ok
<bdmurray> One can use 'apport-collect -p compiz 1345' to add the compiz package hook information to any bug.
<bdmurray> well to bug 1345 ;-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1345 in malone "Activity log shouldn't say "XXX: not yet implemented"" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1345
<ogasawara> bdmurray: nice
<bdmurray> oops
<heno> oh, cool!
<bdmurray> Additionally mdz just wrote a hook for alsa-base which will gather information similar to alsa-info.sh
<cr3> bdmurray: why not just use alsa-info.sh?
<davmor2> nice
<bdmurray> So we could ask sound related kernel bugs to run 'apport-collect -p alsa-base 1345'
<davmor2> is there a pulse one yet
<mdz> cr3: alsa-info.sh uploads a text blob to a pastebin
<bdmurray> davmor2: not yet, its on the list
<mdz> cr3: the apport hook separates the different info into nice attachments and uploads to launchpad
<heno> and it will collect on crashes
<cr3> mdz: thanks!
<mdz> davmor2: should be very easy to write a basic one now
<bdmurray> it's advanatageous to have it LP for scripting with the API too
<heno> time's up
<bdmurray> it being the alsa info
<heno> thanks all!
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:03.
<davmor2> ta
<jcastro> heno: quick question for you
<sbeattie> bdmurray: another thing mdz pointed out to me is that the debian scripts in /usr/share/bug/ are a good starting point for writing hooks.
<jcastro> heno: (sorry I missed the first part, I was an hour off on my calendar)
<cr3> sbeattie: awesome, thanks for sharing that
<bdmurray> sbeattie: yeah, that was mentioned when I was talking about the package bug guidelines
<jcastro> heno: jono has assigned me to look into helping out the community aspect of triage "perception"
<jcastro> heno: he was hoping pedro and I can work together on doing a quick analysis of things and reporting back
<jcastro> would that be ok?
<bdmurray> jcastro: if you need any numbers let me know
<heno> jcastro: sure
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-09
<ttx> Who's around for the java team meeting ?
<ludovicc> me
<ttx> persia is excused, I'll run the show today
<ludovicc> ok, anybody else?
<ttx> ...
<ttx> ok, let's start then
 * dantalizing is listening in
<ludovicc> what's the topic?
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:03. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> [TOPIC] Roadmap review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap review
<ttx> hhmmmkay, so Robilad, persia and slytherin aren't around
<ttx> which leaves some status update on Java-Contents stuff
<ludovicc> ok
<ttx> I'll be producing Jaunty's Java-Contents file before the end of the week
<ludovicc> that's tomorrow!
<ttx> euh. Yes.
<ludovicc> have you looked at the javahelper package, there are some tools to dicover java classes in the installed jars
<ttx> ludovicc: no
<ttx> I'll have a look
<ttx> On the "attract java packagers" side...
<ttx> I'll try to run a packaging class
<ttx> sometime in May
<ttx> based on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/LibraryPackaging
<ttx> that's all in Roadmap.
<ttx> ludovicc: Should we add "Maven support / debian-java sync" to the Roadmap ?
<ludovicc> ok, when I'm more ready with the Maven packaging, I will add a tutorial there as well
<ludovicc> yes, that would be a good idea
<ttx> ok, let's assume there already was. I'm editing the page as we speak
<ttx> could you give us some update on that ?
<ludovicc> right, I have updated most of the packages used by Maven (plexus, modello, doxia soon) to include Maven POMs
<ttx> ludovicc: in Debian ?
<ludovicc> those POMs will then be useful when building other Maven based packages
<ttx> ludovicc: did those mods make it to unstable yet ?
<ludovicc> it's still in my PPA https://launchpad.net/~ludovicc/+archive/ppa/
<ludovicc> I will push them to Debian anytime soon
<ttx> ludovicc: cool. If they make it to unstable we will pick the changes up at Karmic sync/merge time
<ttx> that's the best way, since the java experts are essentially on the debian side
<ludovicc> ok, that's good. I have seen already many new Java packages in Jaunty, keep going!
<ttx> ludovicc: Did you sort out your membership details ?
<ludovicc> next step, I will update maven-debian-helper to work with my last work
<ludovicc> after that we should be able to package about any Maven stuff
<ludovicc> not yet, I'm waiting for some news. I will try to contact Persia directly
<ludovicc> I was expecting to chat with him now...
<ttx> ludovicc: you already applied to ubuntu-java, right ?
<ttx> yes, I see it now
<ludovicc> yes I did, pressed the button
<ttx> doko: could you approve "Ludovic Claude" on ~ubuntu-java ? Or delegate to persia or me the ability to do so ?
<ttx> ok, thanks for the update
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ttx> Anything / anyone wants to discuss ?
<ludovicc> ttx, can you review the package maven-repo-helper? I'm generating with it some postinst,postrm scripts, would appreciate a review of those
<ttx> ludovicc: sure, i'll have a look
<ttx> I can take it from your PPA ?
<ludovicc> the instructions for how this package is supposed to be used are here: http://wiki.debian.org/Java/MavenRepoHelper
<ludovicc> yes
<ttx> ok. Anything else ?
<ludovicc> all other packages published on my PPA use maven-repo-helper so you have lots of examples
<ludovicc> nothing else
<ttx> [TOPIC] Next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting
<ttx> Same date, same place, next week ? Your regular host should be back.
<ttx> Have a nice week :)
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:21.
<ludovicc> not sure about it, I may start a contract. We'll keep in touch anyway
<vikashkoushik> anybody there?
<cody-somerville> no
<vikashkoushik> hi
<vikashkoushik> may i know who you are?
<vikashkoushik> Is there any one in this room who has already got an @ubuntu.com email id?
<cody-somerville> I have one
<vikashkoushik> hey Cody i have a doubt.
<vikashkoushik> Pls help me
<cody-somerville> What is your doubt?
<vikashkoushik> I have completed all the work to apply for the e-mail id.
<vikashkoushik> I live in India
<vikashkoushik> I haven't Contributed much like making a Seminar or things like that
<vikashkoushik> but i did contribute by distributing CD's & solving people's problems in Launch Pad.
<vikashkoushik> Do you think there is a chance for me to get an e-mail id?
<vikashkoushik> Pls reply Cody
<cody-somerville> vikashkoushik, Usually we look for a sustained and significant contribution
<vikashkoushik> So u think I won't be able to get one?
<vikashkoushik> But i did contribute by solving problems & i earned more than 10,000 karma's only by solving people's problems
<davmor2> vikashkoushik: are you an ubuntu member?
<vikashkoushik> An Ubuntero? Yes
<vikashkoushik> Hey Cody pls reply
<cody-somerville> vikashkoushik, To get a Ubuntu e-mail, you must be a Ubuntu member.
<cody-somerville> To learn more about how to do so, please see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<vikashkoushik> hey cody I've completed all those procedure
<vikashkoushik> All I need to do is attend the meeting
<cody-somerville> vikashkoushik, Wonderful. Well, I wish you luck at the meeting :)
<vikashkoushik> Thanks dude.
<vikashkoushik> But pls tell me
<vikashkoushik> what kind of things do they ask you in the meeting?
<vikashkoushik> Pls reply Cody
<cody-somerville> vikashkoushik, You'll be asked about your contributions to Ubuntu.
<vikashkoushik> Can someone pls tell me whether my contributions are enough to get an @ubuntu.com e-mail id?
<cody-somerville> vikashkoushik, Do you have a wiki page describing your contributions?
<vikashkoushik> Yes. the page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/S.Vikash Koushik
<vikashkoushik> hey you have to include Koushik also
<vikashkoushik> leave space between Vikash & Koushik
<vikashkoushik> Pls tell me Cody
<vikashkoushik> Do you think it is enough?
<cody-somerville> vikashkoushik, It seems that you're only been contributing for about two weeks. Unfortunately, we look for a much longer period of sustained and significant contribution from membership candidates.
<vikashkoushik> How long should I contribute?
<cody-somerville> Several months
<vikashkoushik> Is 2 months enough?
<cody-somerville> Probably not
<vikashkoushik> But I have been distributing CD's since January
<vikashkoushik> Which means that I have been Contributing for 3 months rite?
<vikashkoushik> I have been copying the CD's and passing to my friends since Jan
<cody-somerville> Most people do
<vikashkoushik> So can't you consider my contribution started from January?
<vikashkoushik> pls reply
<vikashkoushik> pls reply Cody
<davmor2> vikashkoushik: It needs to be continued contribution that can be seen.  Just continue the work you're doing and you'll see that the time will soon fly by.  Also you'll need to get support from people who can recommend you for the work you are doing
<vikashkoushik> I didn't get your second line.
<vikashkoushik> To who should they come and recommend ?
<vikashkoushik> To whom should they recommend?
<Ampelbein> vikashkoushik: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership for a complete overview
<vikashkoushik> Hey Ampelbein I have completed all the steps over there.I just have to attend the meeting.
<vikashkoushik> I just wanted to know to whom should people come & recommend for the work that i am doing?
<vikashkoushik> Pls reply
<Ampelbein> vikashkoushik: they should attend the scheduled meeting. and please don't say "pls reply" directly after your response. at least give us a chance to type our answer.
<vikashkoushik> i am sorry Amplebein.
<Ampelbein> vikashkoushik: on what wikipage have you added yourself as a prospective member?
<vikashkoushik> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/S.Vikash Koushik
<vikashkoushik> Note: After Vikash leave a gap before typing Koushik
<Ampelbein> vikashkoushik: please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership again to find out where to correctly add yourself to the agenda.
<vikashkoushik> i know that.
<Ampelbein> hint: it's with one of the regional approval boards.
<vikashkoushik> I am busy on 14th.
<vikashkoushik> So I am planning to attend it on the next meeting
<Ampelbein> vikashkoushik: so add yourself now with a note that you'll be there on the meeting after next.
<vikashkoushik> Is it necessary that the person who is going to recommend for my work already has the id?
<Ampelbein> vikashkoushik: not that i know.
<vikashkoushik> Is it ok if the people who is going to recommend my work leave a testimonial on my wiki page?
<Ampelbein> vikashkoushik: as that is described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership on the bottom, yes.
<vikashkoushik> thanks
<vikashkoushik> I really need to get that @ubuntu.com id.
<cody-somerville> vikashkoushik, why do you need it so much?
<vikashkoushik> Its because I LOVE ubuntu that much
<vikashkoushik> Ever since I heard about ubuntu i've always been speaking about ubuntu,ubuntu and only ubuntu.
<vikashkoushik> and i want people to know about ubuntu as i send a lot of e-mails on a single day
<vikashkoushik> Is there any chance of me to get the id on 14th if I attend the meeting with the testimonials on my wiki page?
<vikashkoushik> Is there any chance of me to get the id on 14th if I attend the meeting with enough testimonials on my wiki page?
<Ampelbein> vikashkoushik: don't message me privately. just ask in the channel and when someone knows the answer he will reply.
<vikashkoushik> I have more than 10,000 karma's just by solving people's problems. Do you think that is a significant contribution?
<GunbladeIV> vikashkoushik, i think they wll look into your contribution.  Just update your wiki and submit your application on their wiki site.
<vikashkoushik> all i've contributed is distributing CD's & solving people's problem in launch pad & i've earned 10,000 karma's.Is that enough?
<GunbladeIV> vikashkoushik, they wanted to see sustained contribution. vikashkoushik you can try, but the board will decide.  I've tried once, and will try again.
<vikashkoushik> What are were your contributions when you tried the first time?
<GunbladeIV> vikashkoushik, im more into web thingy for my loco.. im the webmaster.  i do involve with some events for my loco. but they want to see sustained effort from me.
<vikashkoushik> hmm...
<GunbladeIV> vikashkoushik, it's not a bad thing actually, at least you will ty harder and it will be more precious once you are being approve
<vikashkoushik> the thing is that i get disappointed if i am rejected.
<GunbladeIV> vikashkoushik, dont get disappointed yet.  Just give it a try
<GunbladeIV> vikashkoushik, make sure you put every contribution in your wiki even it's a small contribution
<vikashkoushik> Like i said The only contribution that i've made are distributing cd's & solving people's problems.
<vikashkoushik> As i live in India there is no way for me to conduct Seminar like many people that i've seen on the wiki page.
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<lool> yay!
<NCommander> lool, :-)
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
 * NCommander just updated that too
 * NCommander waits for the pages to save
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090409
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090409
<NCommander> Ok, lets begin
<NCommander> [topic] Specification Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Review
<NCommander> [topic] offline-installer (ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  offline-installer (ogra)
<ogra> co
<ogra> err
<NCommander> do we have persia today?
<ogra> dont we start with action items ?
<NCommander> ah ****
 * NCommander is still not used to charing
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<lool> It's weird to see NCommander post the checklist he has to follow and then start doing something else
<lool> I was wondering whether I had forgotten how meetings were happening :)
 * ScottK hands NCommander an 'i'
<lool> an 'i' char
<NCommander> Ok, no persia
<NCommander> SO his items carry over
<NCommander> [topic] lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1 (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1 (co)
<lool> co++
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope (co)
<ogra> co
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope (co)
<ogra> (for the rest as well)
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> #topic GrueMaster to test new Aspire One kernel
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to test new Aspire One kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to test new Aspire One kernel
<GrueMaster> what is this new kernel?
<ogra> i didnt have any time to work on anything but babbage ... same goes for lool i guess
<NCommander> hrm, that should have been testing the last kernel upload on the aspire one
<NCommander> ^- lool
<lool> ?
<GrueMaster> If that's the case, then it is done as it is in the new image.
<GrueMaster> I'm assuming this is referring to the acer-wmi issue.
<lool> I don't recall this action
<lool> Oh right
<NCommander> Apr 02 17:26:42 <ubottu>	Launchpad bug 319825 in linux "acer_wmi in Jaunty on Aspire One exposes non-functional (always disabled) rfkill device" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/319825
<NCommander> Apr 02 17:27:04 <lool>	All last bugs dropped
<NCommander> Apr 02 17:27:06 <lool>	fix released
<NCommander> Apr 02 17:27:12 <GrueMaster>	Will retest once new kernel is in the image.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 319825 in linux "acer_wmi in Jaunty on Aspire One exposes non-functional (always disabled) rfkill device" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/319825
<GrueMaster> Looks good.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 319825 in linux "acer_wmi in Jaunty on Aspire One exposes non-functional (always disabled) rfkill device" [Medium,Fix released]
<lool> Cool
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to test newer version of Hildon Desktop to see if it resolves cat kills MID bug
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to test newer version of Hildon Desktop to see if it resolves cat kills MID bug
<GrueMaster> WIP.  Just started on it this morning.
 * NCommander carries over
<NCommander> Thats it on action items
<NCommander> [topic] Spec Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Spec Review
<NCommander> [topic]  arm-library-optimisation (lool)
<MootBot> New Topic:   arm-library-optimisation (lool)
<lool> Pushed pango and gtk+ to PPA; pango looking good, gtk takes ages to build there, also building on my babbage now
<NCommander> [topic]  general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:   general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling
<lool> Will attack cairo next; ffmpeg-debian is for persia
<lool> (unless persia preempts cairo)
<ogra> KK topic, will register a new spec
<NCommander> [topic] arm-softboot-loader
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm-softboot-loader
<NCommander> KK, new spec will be written
<NCommander> [topic] selection-of-arm-images
<MootBot> New Topic:  selection-of-arm-images
<persia> Don't create new specs: just revise the old ones: all the right people are already subscribed.
<ogra> implemented, will have to be revisited if we get new subarches
<NCommander> oh, persia is here
<ogra> persia, the touchscreen stuff will need a completely new one
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-setup-wizard (persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-setup-wizard (persia)
<persia> no change in status.  Mostly an issue with interface size at this point.
<NCommander> [topic] poulsbo-packaging (persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  poulsbo-packaging (persia)
<persia> no change.
<NCommander> [topic] lpia-versus-i386 (lool)
<MootBot> New Topic:  lpia-versus-i386 (lool)
<lool> Opened a RT to add a wrapper
<lool> We need to implement this wrapper
<NCommander> wrapper?
<lool> A gcc wrapper to set -Os
<NCommander> Oh, is this the lets build with -Os?
<NCommander> lool, do we need an action item for this?
<lool> I'm taking volunteers with CFT to implement that before karmic
<NCommander> VFT?
<NCommander> *CFT?
<lool> Copious Free Time
<NCommander> I'll take it
<GrueMaster> 1...2...3...not it.
<lool> Ok; you should start from hardening wrapper, will send you the email
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to coordinate with lool and re-purpose hardening-wrapper to pass -Os on lpia builds
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to coordinate with lool and re-purpose hardening-wrapper to pass -Os on lpia builds
<lool> NCommander: I've sent you the info
<NCommander> thanks
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-spec-cleanup (persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-spec-cleanup (persia)
<NCommander> Guess ENOPERSIA
<persia> I've raised the priority on this, with UDS coming up, and now expect to finish pre-release.
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> [topic] Ongoing Projects
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ongoing Projects
<NCommander> [topic] Babbage Enablement (ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Babbage Enablement (ogra)
<ogra> done !
<NCommander> yay!
<ogra> still has small issues, but generally good
<ogra> we wait for an NM upload
<ogra> ubiquity is up but not in the image yet
<ogra> usplash doesnt work
<NCommander> ogra, I'm trying to find out if it works on PowerPC which is also VESA lacking
<ogra> and there was one watchdog oops with the wired NIC that didnt cause any issues but showed up
<ogra> it does
<ogra> or it did when i used my PPC last which is a while ago
<ogra> like gutsy
<ogra> but its not really relevant, we wont be able to fix it in jaunty
<NCommander> ogra, I know usplash USED to support fb devices
<ogra> and in KK the whole thing will change
<NCommander> There's an open bug on it
<ogra> yes, fb devices that are able to report vesa modes
<ogra> we have only one fixed size we can support
<ogra> what someone should test is to create an 800x600 usplash.conf, re-roll initramfs and test that
<NCommander> I'll take that, since I'm already setup to
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to test usplash at 800x600
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to test usplash at 800x600
<ogra> it might work with a fixed predefined size (though i'm not sure about that)
<NCommander> [topic] High Priority Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  High Priority Bugs
<ogra> one open thing we still have is to test kernel upgrades
<lool> ogra: Could you test them?
<ogra> we are nopt sure yet if update-initramfs properly triggers flash-kernel
<ogra> now ? ... hmm
<plars> lool: on babbage?
<ogra> ok
<lool> No, not now, soon
<ogra> plars, yes
<NCommander> [action] ogra to test kernel updates
<lool> plars: yup
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to test kernel updates
<ogra> ok, will do
<plars> it worked with the kernel you rerolled a while back lool
<plars> don't know if that was representative though
<lool> plars: Did you see the update-initramfs call as well?
<ogra> plars, did it run update-initramfs before running flash-kernel ?
<ogra> the order is important
<lool> What would be good is an udev upgrade
<plars> hmm... that was about 2 weeks ago, I slept since then
<lool> Just reinstall one initramfs package, such as udev
<ogra> you did ?
<lool> That should be enough
<ogra> geez
<ogra> lool, make a note plars still has time to sleep ... not enough workload yet :P
 * NCommander wonders if that should be a bug or an action item :-)
<knome> bug!
<plars> heh
<NCommander> [topic] bug #328167: gnome-keyring-daemon eats all CPU on ARM when starting a GNOME session
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #328167: gnome-keyring-daemon eats all CPU on ARM when starting a GNOME session
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328167 in gnome-keyring "[arm] gnome-keyring-daemon eating 100% CPU at login in Jaunty" [High,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328167
 * ogra runs apt-get install --reinstall udev as we speak
<ogra> NCommander, worked around but not fixed, please drop the bug from roadmap but keep the action item for me
<ogra> lool, no flash-kernel :(
<lool> No surprize
<ogra> against what do i file that ?
 * NCommander always remembers on the slug it was a manual step
<ogra> initramfs-tools ?
<lool> ogra: Yeah
<NCommander> [action] ogra to continue investigation of #328167
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to continue investigation of #328167
<ogra> NCommander, well, actually only providing a BT to upstream
<ogra> so they can find the cause (i thought you did one yesterday though)
<NCommander> ogra, I can do that; I have a full backtrace from the ddebs (I thought I posted it but it seems I'm loosing it)
<NCommander> ogra, my BTs however only showed one thread running so if you want to run one as well, it would help
<ogra> NCommander, on the upstream bug please
<NCommander> [action] ogra and NCommander to post backtraces of #328167 for upstream
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra and NCommander to post backtraces of #328167 for upstream
<NCommander> [topic] bug #338148: VNC4 FTBFS
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #338148: VNC4 FTBFS
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338148
<NCommander> This moved from persia's plate to my own, I confirmed the Debian source package does build fine on Ubuntu. It looks like we can simply sync it, but it I need to test to make sure all patches have been properly merged or gone upstream
<persia> Except we can't sync it because our X trees differ.
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> so much for that idea.
<persia> And parts of the X trees are merged.
<persia> Otherwise it would be easy :)
<NCommander> persia, I'm suprised it even built on Ubuntu then
<NCommander> What a PTIA
<persia> Your experience mirrors mine: "That's easy, wait..." :)
<NCommander> Not to be a pill, but this isn't an ARM issue
<ogra> lool, bug 358762
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 358762 in initramfs-tools "update-initramfs is missing a trigger for flash-kernel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/358762
<NCommander> Can't we toss this onto the X guys plate?
<ogra> lool, do you want that milestoned etc ?
<lool> Yes
<lool> High
<ogra> can you confirm it ?
<NCommander> ogra, I added that on the Roadmap
<ogra> good
 * ogra would like to not confirm it himself
<NCommander> [topic] bug #349504: if system date is set to 01-01-1970 users are enforced to update their password
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #349504: if system date is set to 01-01-1970 users are enforced to update their password
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349504 in shadow "if system date is set to 01-01-1970 users are enforced to update their password" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/349504
<NCommander> That was mine, fixed released :-)
<NCommander> *fix released
<plars> I can confirm it works now
<NCommander> woo
<plars> now if I could just keep the date after setting it on my system :(
<NCommander> plars, mine survives reboots, but it goes away if I unplug the box
<NCommander> :-/
<lool> update-initramfs: deferring update (trigger activated)
<lool> No flash-kernel
<ogra> lool, hmm, update-initramfs has detection code for lilo based systems .. there it only spills a warning
<plars> NCommander: right
<NCommander> [topic] Low priority bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Low priority bugs
<ogra> but doesnt run lilo
<NCommander> [topic] #299847 libipc-sharelite-perl FTBFS on armel
<MootBot> New Topic:  #299847 libipc-sharelite-perl FTBFS on armel
<lool> ogra: You need to target to release
<lool> I did that now
<NCommander> No progress, none excepted until its either reproduced on something beside the buildds, or we replace the buildds :-)
<NCommander> [topic] bug #280669: DMA mode and driver on jax10
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #280669: DMA mode and driver on jax10
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280669 in linux "DMA mode and driver jax10" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280669
<NCommander> Talked with apw, decided we didn't need the patch.
<NCommander> Scratched off the roadmap :-)
<NCommander> [topic] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ogra> lool, ah, no, the warning is only for the case where lilo and grub are both installed, else it runs lilo
<ogra> lool, so we can just steal that code
<GrueMaster> bug #337809
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337809 in linux "APIC error on CPU 0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/337809
<persia> So, I posted a call for specs for karmic.  Has everyone registered a couple yet?
<NCommander> ogra, are you taking the update-initramfs issue?
<NCommander> Oh, right
<NCommander> Ahem
<NCommander> [topic] Specs for karmic
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specs for karmic
<persia> Anyone have questions about the procedure or the deadline?
<ogra> why is that still there ?
<knome> persia, what is the deadline?
<ogra> it was just a notification from david
<GrueMaster> Procedure, yes.
<persia> GrueMaster, what's the question?
<plars> persia: having never been through it before, not even sure what to ask
<NCommander> ogra, it wasn't on the roadmap, I brought it up for persia
<GrueMaster> need to find the email again first, then I'll ask.
<ogra> NCommander, ah, but it shouldnt be a constant item
<NCommander> ogra, its not on the roadmap
<ogra> good
<lool> ogra: well it would be cool to avoid running flash-kernel twice
<persia> plars, Basically, we determine what we're going to look at for the next cycle, and start drafting specifications for discussion at UDS.
<ogra> lool, well, i doubt you can
<lool> ogra: perhaps check discussion in debian-boot?
<ogra> you will only run it twice if a kernel is installed as well
<lool> That's what I mean
<knome> NCommander, maybe you have a minute after the meeting?
<ogra> it will run once on normal update-initramfs runs
<lool> We only rebuild initrd once
<NCommander> knome, sure
<lool> Would be nice to only flash-kernel once
<knome> NCommander, just ping me once you are free
<lool> ogra: Anyway, I don't want to discuss this tonight => /me is tired
<plars> persia: I understand that much, but are these basically wishlist items? or things that have already been fully architected, designed, and have a start on implementation?  Also, with the requirement about needing to sign up to implement it, not sure what to do at this point
<NCommander> GrueMaster, I haven't had that APCI issue on real hardware
 * ogra just doesnt understand if its dangerous or cosmetic issues lool has with that
<lool> plars: It's exactly in between: stuff which will be implemented and we need to architect properly
<ogra> if its the latter we shouldnt care in jaunty
<GrueMaster> I have.  Crown Beach and Acer Aspire One.
<persia> plars, Somewhere between wishlist and started :)  It should be achievable within the timeframe, and testable for release.
<lool> ogra: It's cosmetic; I'm trying to shoot for the proper design first when I can though
<NCommander> GrueMaster, can you try to reproduce with the alternate image? (I just want to see if its live only, since I haven't seen it)
<GrueMaster> Goes away if you add apci=ht to the kernel
<NCommander> GrueMaster, its on the roadmap
<ogra> lool, right, but we'Re at a point where changes need to be minimal
<lool> Yes
<ogra> proper design means big changes in this case
 * persia waves the specifications flag harder, in the hopes that people notice that the deadline is *before* release.
<lool> I agree you have little time to think about this and it's likely we hardcode a call to flash-kernel $somewhere
<ogra> but lets discuss that later, not tonight
<lool> persia: I'm afraid I'm buried in release stuff
 * ogra agrees with the tiredness
 * lool beats persia with the release flag
<ogra> persia, davidm said all that last week
<persia> lool, I understand, but anything not put up before the 21st won't make UDS.
<persia> I didn't make up the deadline, and it's fairly firm.
<ogra> its only about registering slots in the UDS schedule
<lool> Perhaps we could move the release by a week to work a little on the specs?   ;-)
<persia> heh :)
<persia> Anyway, the specs don't need to be *done*, just outlined.  Registration, title, summary, etc.
<ogra> not even that
<davidm> Sorry guys I know it's a pain but I'm getting pushed hard on this.
<persia> Yes, all of that.
<ogra> LP blueprint and entry on the wikipage for the schedule
<persia> ogra, And summary.
 * NCommander notes we are two weeks from release
<ogra> its really only for the schedule
<NCommander> REPENT, THE END IS NEAR!
<NCommander> :-)
<GrueMaster> When is RC?
<ogra> thu
<NCommander> GrueMaster, 7 days
<NCommander> Oooooh
<NCommander> that remidns me
<NCommander> Someone needs to get Babbage on the ISO tester
<ogra> milestones and releases are always on thursdays
<ogra> we're the thursday distro ;)
 * NCommander wonders if that was true for Dapper as well ...
<persia> Yes.
<lool> Ah I have a topic to add
<NCommander> dapper will always have a special place in my heart for its version
<NCommander> lool, go ahead
<lool> what images do we want to test for release exactly?
<lool> I had in mind to test ubuntu live (gnome) for babbage, perhaps the xubuntu one; I wonder about the server one
<ogra> nslu2, babbage versatile, UNR, MID
<lool> And then UNR MID as usual and the netboots
<NCommander> lpia alternative
<NCommander> (now that we have them)
<GrueMaster> With all of the images currently available, we need to divvy up the load a bit.
<lool> Are all of these in the tracker
<NCommander> lool, no
<NCommander> lool, well, UNR and MID are. NSLU2, Babbage, Versatile, and lpia alt are not
<lool> GrueMaster: ack, they are too many, i'm losing track of what to test
<NCommander> BTW, will we be getting Babbage alternatives? (the installer works)
<NCommander> (we just need the image building bits)
<lool> NCommander: there's an entry for netboot I think
 * ogra would actually prefer to not have NSLU2 on the tracker :P
<lool> NCommander: You tried alternate armel on SD card?
<lool> I made it build, but never heard of anybody running it
<NCommander> lool, yeah, both netboot and cdrom
<NCommander> Both work and run through the entire install
<lool> Oh the d-i ones, not the alternate ones
<NCommander> At the time it didn't install the kernel though, but that was about a week ago, so that should be fixed.
<GrueMaster> The reason I suggest spreading the load is due to download and install times.  It takes almost an hour to download and install babbage image, let alone do any substantive testing.
<lool> Err a week ago we weren't building SD cards for alternate
<NCommander> lool, I was on the impression the SD cards for alternative didn't have the initrd in place, if thats changed, I'll test them
<lool> NCommander: What did you test exactly?  The d-i bits?
<lool> You grabbed stuff from ports.u.c, right?
<lool> GrueMaster: ack
<NCommander> lool, I took the d-i kernel and initramfs, put them on the SD card and ran the install
<lool> GrueMaster: one hour sounds a bit long; it's shorter here, and I'm not rich in bandwidth
<NCommander> It completed except for installing the kernel and bootloader since at that point the postinst had not been implemented to my knowledge.
<lool> GrueMaster: I think we need to split the testing more, and limit the number of images
<lool> davidm: What images do we really need well tested?
<GrueMaster> That includes install.  My install just completed, and I started it at the beginning of the meeting.
<plars> Do we have hardware for all of these images?  I've had poor success getting the arm netboot images running well under qemu
<lool> NCommander: Ok, what I was speaking about with alternate images were the cdimage ones below /ports/daily
<lool> plars: They should work
<lool> plars: Unless they are broken, which is possible
<lool> That's for versatile
<NCommander> lool, that I can test
<lool> For iop32x, I have hardware (but nobody cares) and for ixp4xx NCommander and ogra have hardware
<plars> lool: versatile is the one I'm trying right now, and it takes somewhere around 12 hours just to complete the install
<lool> That's all netboots
<lool> That's long
<NCommander> I thought one of us had orion5x hardware as well
<ogra> lool, well, i just saw infinity complaining that libc6-vfp gets pulled in on all armel arches
<ogra> lool, the versatile slowness could be caused by that
<lool> Uh no
<lool> Does it claim VFP?
<ogra> no idea, but vfp is a dep of ubuntu-minimal
<lool> Yes, that's intended
<persia> I have orion5x hardware, but I was told that kernel was dropped.
<lool> Just like i686
<NCommander> persia, not yet to my knowledge
<lool> plars, ogra: Could one of you confirm whether libc6-vfp is the culprit?
<lool> And file a bug
<persia> Oh, then I'll try an install once I get the rest of the VFP stuff sorted.
<lool> We could perhaps still fix that
<ogra> lool, i have nslu2
<lool> In qemu
<ogra> plars, ^^^ can you care for versatile ?
<lool> ogra: It wont slow down on NSLU2 for sure
<ogra> no, but nslu2 eats my time
<lool> The question is in qemu, perhaps emulating a VFP via qemu is slower than running emulated floats in qemu
<plars> ogra: I can try, but it's almost too slow to even try to test anything
<ogra> so i would prefer to stick with babbage and nslu2 if i'm not urgently needed
<lool> plars: Use a shell and move the vfp lib away
<lool> plars: See if that helps in qemu
<plars> lool: I'll try that
<persia> NCommander, According to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/2.6.28-11.41/+build/941224 it is gone.
<ogra> plars, if you need help i'm there
<plars> ogra: thanks
<ogra> i just dont want to lead this additionally
<NCommander> persia, then feel free to ignore me
<NCommander> So who wants the action item to see that getting onto the release tracker?
<lool> davidm: What images do we really need well tested?
<plars> NCommander: I can probably see about that if I have a good list of what should be there exactly
 * persia points out that there are 3 minutes left.
<NCommander> Oh, important heads up
<lool> plars: Let's stick with the conservative: MID, UNR -- already there; we need to split netboot probably, and then imx51 live, and perhaps lpia alternate
<NCommander> I'm not going to be around tomorrow for Easter, or if I am, I will only be so in the morning in all likelyhood.
<plars> same here
<GrueMaster> I'll be around unless the sun comes out, then I'll be at the golf course hiding my golf balls around the course.  :P
<NCommander> Anyway
<NCommander> Final announcements going in 3
<NCommander> 2
<NCommander> 1
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:02.
<ogra> thanks NCommander
<lool> yes, thanks NCommander
<NCommander> np ogra and lool
<NCommander> minutes are up already
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-10
 * persia peers about
<persia> so, it's late, and we're disorganised.
<persia> Are ember or imbrandon here?
<geser> ember seems to not be online
<persia> That's what I see too.
<geser> imbrandon is online but let's if he's afk or not
<persia> Well, if imbrandon stops by, we can hunt for the rest of MC.
<geser> have we quorum anyways?
<persia> Dunno.  Let's check :)
<persia> jpds, nhandler nixternal dholbach soren ?
<persia> Maybe not :(
<vikashkoushik> Hi guys
<vikashkoushik> I did do a Demo on Ubuntu in my school.
<vikashkoushik> Will that be considered as a Contribution to Ubuntu while getting the email id?
<persia> vikashkoushik, A practice of regularly presenting Ubuntu can be considered a contribution to advocacy.
<persia> You'd want to combine it with other activities as part of your participation within Ubuntu.
<vikashkoushik> I am also giving solutions to people's problem in Launch Pad Answer Tracker & I just started Transilating Ubuntu in Tamil
<vikashkoushik> Is that enough?
<persia> I can't give an authoritative answer to that.
<persia> Your best guideline is really https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<vikashkoushik> I've already gone through that and I am already an Ubuntero
<persia> But the key things are that the contribution be recognised as significant to others in the community, and that it be sustained over a reasonable period of time (with an expectation of continuance)
<vikashkoushik> I've been contributing to Launch Pad Answer Tracker for only 2 weeks as I just came to know about it But I gave the Demo on Jan
<vikashkoushik> & during Feb I was burning CD's and distributing it
<vikashkoushik> & I am still continuing to do so
<vikashkoushik> Is this enough?
<persia> Cool.  I'd recommend contacting your local Ubuntu group, and working with them, as part of building interaction with the community.
<vikashkoushik> How do I contact the Local Ubuntu group? I live in Chennai,Tamil Nadu,India.
<persia> #ubuntu-in is probably a good place to start.
<vikashkoushik> thanks
<jpds> persia: I'm here now.
<persia> jpds, Well, imbrandon never showed, and we'd still not have quorum.
<vikashkoushik> Shall Post on my wiki page about the demo I did in Jan?
<persia> vikashkoushik, You will want to document everything on your wiki page before you apply.
<vikashkoushik> Persia,Do you think the period I have been contributing is enough?
<persia> vikashkoushik, The guideline is at least two months, but demonstration of activity that is considered sustained by your peers.  I haven't worked with you, so I don't have an opinion.
<vikashkoushik> I didn't get you.
<vikashkoushik> persia, i didn't get you clearly.
<persia> Understood, which is why I /queried you, to preserve the clenliness of these logs.
 * lool pokes slangasek 
<lool> The release meeting shows up now on my google calendar agenda, was it moved?
<lool> Crap, 14 UTC
<davidbarth> lool: really? yes, i think it moved; i had it at 3pm CET initially
<persia> My memory is that it used to be at 15 UTC.  I think it moved to follow BST.
<lool> persia: It was supposed to happen in one hour, but I raised that it was conflicting with some call
<lool> slangasek looked at moving it one hour earlier, but announced it for next hour
<lool> So either it changed at the last minute again, or there was confusion
<lool> I just updated the google cal entry though
<dendrobates> this did seem unusually early for slangasek.
<lool> dendrobates, mdz: apparently meeting is next hour
<lool> Which might conflict with your call
<mdz> lool: I had already asked randa to reschedule that call, but it looks like she forgot to do it before she left for the weekend
<mdz> dendrobates: ^^
<dendrobates> mdz: are you working today?  Or are you just showing up to the release meeting?
<mdz> dendrobates: neither
<mdz> I just happened to be on IRC, which I'm quickly realizing is a mistake if I expect to benefit from the bank holiday
<lool> mdz: Eh quite certainly :)  enjoy your long WE
 * slangasek waves
 * nhandler waves back to slangasek 
 * rickspencer3 waves
 * rickspencer3 yawns
<fader_> Hello
<lool> Morning slangasek
<nhandler> So it is time for the release team meeting, correct?
<slangasek> nhandler: yes
<lool> Yup
<robbiew> hi
<slangasek> 'lo
 * pgraner o/
<lool> slangasek: I'm afraid I milestoned a couple of bugs in the last hours; Bug 359049, Bug 358961
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359049 in linux "imx51 udeb hardcodes linux version in vmlinuz binary name" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359049
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 358961 in ubiquity "Broken window icon in top left corner" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/358961
 * tedg has coffee, therefore is ready to go!
<lool> pgraner: May I ask immediately whether a last kernel upload is planned? :)
<slangasek> sbeattie, Hobbsee, ScottK: ping?
<slangasek> lool: wait till we start the meeting? :)
<pgraner> lool: we are done
<nhandler> slangasek: ScottK said he wouldn't be able to make the meeting
<lool> slangasek: I was abusing this early minutes where everybody joins  ;)
<lool> pgraner: Ok; that does influence things then, thanks
 * sbeattie waves hello
<rickspencer3> pgraner: sweet
<rickspencer3> congrats kernel team!
<lool> Yep, nice!
<pgraner> rickspencer3: don't party just yet
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:04. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<lool> Albeit there are bugs :)
 * rickspencer3 recorks champagne bottle
<slangasek> I'm assuming anyone located in the UK or Germany is taking their well-deserved holiday, so let's get started :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions
<ogra> there is no holiday in the US ?
<nhandler> There is ogra
<nhandler> It is Good Friday
<tedg> ogra: Not a national bank holiday though.
<ogra> ah
<slangasek> pgraner: was the power cable issue for 340014 taken care of?  I have no idea if that's even still an issue, and it obviously wasn't recorded in the bug :)
<fader_> slangasek: I got the machine in question back to manjo who had the power cord
<fader_> He was running tests on it and I asked him to file any bugs he came across
<slangasek> ok, so the power cord is no longer an issue, at least
<fader_> Right
<slangasek> fader_: how about sound input bugs on netbooks?  Everything filed that should be?
<fader_> slangasek: Yes, all the bugs that cr3 and I encountered are filed and seem to have been assigned appropriately
<fader_> I also updated the bug numbers in http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/netbooks/
<fader_> (Modulo the ones that manjo is filing; I need to get those numbers from him)
<slangasek> ok; they don't appear to have shown up on the release team radar as targeted bugs, were they meant to?
<fader_> I'm honestly not sure.  I know mdz looked at them and commented, but I don't know if anything further needs to happen to them
<slangasek> fader_: could you email me a list of those bugs after, so I can have a look at what we've got?
<fader_> slangasek: Absolutely... I'll email them to you
<slangasek> [ACTION] fader_ to email slangasek the list of netbook sound input bugs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  fader_ to email slangasek the list of netbook sound input bugs
<slangasek> sbeattie: how are we with regression-release bug triaging?
<sbeattie> slangasek: I sent off an email to the qa team about regression-release tagged bugs, but I think everyone's too busy dealing with newer bugs to go back to those at the moment.
<slangasek> ok :(
<slangasek> (action: have fewer bugs next week)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
<slangasek> moving on, then
<fader_> Hardware testing has nothing exciting to report... we are having checkbox issues that are preventing some machines from reporting results correctly, so I am in the process of backfilling by running checkbox manually
<fader_> We've also hit bug 356518 on a couple of machines which prevents them from booting with grub when the serial console is being used, but they work fine without that option
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 356518 in grub "HP ML110 fails to boot with grub after server install via PXE / serial console" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/356518
<fader_> So I'm not sure it's quite as high priority as it seemed when I first ran into it
<fader_> Other than that everything is passing and we're not seeing any real issues
<slangasek> I think we should still be tracking that bug, even if we may not be able to get it fixed (as opposed to release-noted)
<fader_> slangasek: Yeah, it's definitely an annoying bug, but the fact that it only appears to happen on a small number of systems and under very specific conditions makes me feel less worried about it :)
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> ok, cool; thanks for the update
<slangasek> sbeattie: anything to add from your corner?
<sbeattie> not particularly, I haven't seen anything significant come through in the regresisons department.
<slangasek> great!
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team
<rickspencer3> looks like we have quite a few bugs on release team radar
<rickspencer3> generally, I divide them between "xorg" and "other"
<slangasek> two or three :)
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<rickspencer3> in the "other" category, none are very concerning to me, except bug #277589
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277589 in hotkey-setup "sony brighness on a geforce series older than 8 (nvclock works fine)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277589
<rickspencer3> but that's only because it's new to me, and I haven't had a chance to follow up and see what's going on with it
<slangasek> rickspencer3: your list has one more bug than mine, do you know which bug that is?
<rickspencer3> slangasek: no
<rickspencer3> it's probably a dupe
<rickspencer3> I was copying and pasting between lists early this morning :)
<slangasek> 349992
<slangasek> which isn't targeted; does it need to be?
<rickspencer3> no
<rickspencer3> that is left over
<slangasek> ah, it's been untargeted by bryce, ok
<rickspencer3> sorry
<rickspencer3> yeah
<rickspencer3> in terms of xorg it's only intel that has any real issues right now
<rickspencer3> the intel engineers have been helping bryce quite a bit
<rickspencer3> as I noted on the release page, bryce suspects that there are one or two underling causes for all the "freeze" bugs, so he's sorting through the data today
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> I look forward to the good news next week :)
<rickspencer3> I suspect we are in good enough shape to ship, as all of the bugs ...
<rickspencer3> can be worked around by turning off desktop effects
<rickspencer3> but that's painful, so I'm looking forward to good news too :)
<rickspencer3> bug #341898 also seems to be xorg, but I'm not clear if it's still an issue or not
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 341898 in mesa "Mythtv frontend does not display any fonts" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/341898
<rickspencer3> I should be able to find out next week after everyone is back from holidays
<rickspencer3> (that's it from desktop team, unless there are questions)
<slangasek> superm1 (mythtv) isn't on holidays
<rickspencer3> okay
<slangasek> so if the bug needs followed up on you could tag him
<rickspencer3> I'll ping him after this
<davidbarth> slangasek, rickspencer3: while we're on the desktop, can I also mention the bugs on our radar (https://wiki.canonical.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/JauntyReleaseStatus)
<slangasek> (well, I'm presuming a bit; he's in the US, he might still be on holiday)
<rickspencer3> slangasek: ack
<rickspencer3> davidbarth: thanks for bringing up bug #358775
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 358775 in gnome-panel "Messaging Indicator icon should appear as the leftmost icon" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/358775
<rickspencer3> I think it's an easy fix (non-intrusive) but it is really late for the design team to start checking whether everything is to spec
<slangasek> davidbarth: sure - the only one of those that isn't targeted currently is 331369, I guess we should target that if you're looking for an exception
<slangasek> (done)
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: tedg may be able to comment better for #358775
<rickspencer3> slangasek: if we do 358775 I suppose we'll need an exception as well
<rickspencer3> also, it will impact screen shots, documentation, etc...
<davidbarth> slangasek: yes, will do; it's a one liner, but a regression potential
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: correct
<slangasek> 358775> I thought I already pushed through an update for that, or was I just reading patches?
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: also #317271 and #357455 are dups apparently, and not a trivial change
<slangasek> ah, yes, was just reading my bug mail :)
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: we are still evaluating whether the change is worth the potential impact
<rickspencer3> davidbarth: which change, you mean mt's move the icon bug?
<rickspencer3> 358775 ?
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: no, the "logout..." that exist immediately if you have another session opened with the same account
<rickspencer3> right
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: it's an odd case
<rickspencer3> davidbarth: shall we discuss outside the meeting?
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: sure
<slangasek> rickspencer3: btw, in response to the freeze mail's request to "let the release team know" about any bugs that should be on the radar but aren't, I got an email from a user that's led me to be concerned about the state of plasma-widget-network-manager
<slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plasma-widget-network-manager
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plasma-widget-network-manager
<slangasek> seems there's lots of breakage where wireless passwords are concerned; could you have Riddell follow up on this when he's back from holiday?
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> yes
<slangasek> (p-w-n-m is the default NM frontend for kubuntu 9.04)
<rickspencer3> I'll see what's going on in #kubuntu-devel today
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> thanks
<rickspencer3> see if the team is dialed in
<nhandler> Not much activity Riddell
<slangasek> [ACTION] rickspencer3 to follow up with Kubuntu team regarding state of plasma-widget-network-manager and encrypted wireless
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rickspencer3 to follow up with Kubuntu team regarding state of plasma-widget-network-manager and encrypted wireless
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile team
<slangasek> lool: hi
<lool> list of specs and bugs on our radar:
<lool> [link] <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap>
<MootBot> LINK received:  <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap>
<lool> current high-level status per topic:
<lool> - UNR: I saw no notify-osd complaints; good shape except for intel graphics regression on eeepcs (349314, 344443) and pending-upload netbook-launcher gtk label translation issue 356970
<lool> - MID image is as good as usual
<lool> - armel netbook images: still need plenty of testing since the latest kernel changes (all of iop32x, versatile, ixp4xx have been changed for various bugs); still need a d-i build (in unapproved again currently)
<lool> - armel's "iMX51 Babbage": dailies are building, would have liked fixing 359049, but probably doesn't warrant a kernel upload, everything seems to work at this point; some unfortunate issues preventing correct use of USB and wifi; 356517 breaks NM on wired, asac is uploading a fix soon; need some kind of release notes for this flavour
<lool> - VFP: pango uploaded, gtk+ ready but being QA-ed (builds were slow yesterday), ffmpeg-debian patch ready, needs review, testing and upload; missing cairo still
<lool> - wont make the release: poulsbo, touchscreen
<lool> - lpia: overall good shape, d-i images were fixed recently
<lool> - armel: overall good shape; update-initramfs/flash-kernel 358762 needs fixing before release though, but has a proposed fix (needs testing and upload)
<lool> - important bugs I'd like to cover:
<lool>   349314: slowness on intel graphics on eeepcs; Paul Larson says it wasn't this patch causing regressions, Andy says it was, Matt asks for a bug for the regressions
<lool>   358762: want advice / ack on proposed changes
<lool>   359049: don't think this warrants a kernel upload, but am taking opinions
<lool> (done pasting)
<lool> Ah there's something I forgot to write down: I've asked for more armel buildds yesterday as we had a growing backlog of needs build packages on armel
<slangasek> I'll process the d-i asap
<lool> and only 3 builders with 2 being busy on openoffice and openjdk
<lool> AFAIK, one more openjdk upload is still needed
<ogra> wasnt that just done some mins ago ?
<lool> infinity has set up our livefs builder as buildd temporarily and this helped a lot
<lool> ogra: No, yesterday evening
<lool> ogra: Oh openjdk?
<ogra> openjdk-6 (6b14-1.4.1-0ubuntu6) jaunty; urgency=low
<ogra>   * Fix native2ascii jdk test case, which let the jdk testsuite fail.
<ogra> 20min ago
<slangasek> I just approved an openjdk fix, yes
<lool> Not sure whether that's the final one
 * ogra hopes so
<lool> Anyway, we can discuss this later
<ogra> with the archive rebuild and the slow buioldds i really fear we wont have built everything by release on armel
<slangasek> 359049> yes, milestoning for -updates
<slangasek> hmm - or should that be declined altogether, I guess
<lool> Updates sound bad
<lool> As we don't distinguish between jaunty and jaunty-updates in cdimage/debian-cd
<lool> I'd rather have the same udeb name for both
<lool> It's either now, or karmic
<sbeattie> lool: do we need an ubuntu-mid alternate iso target on the iso tracker? would that have caught the issues with that image an the mini 9 that made it through the beta?
<lool> Since the debian-cd/cdimage stuff is versionned per dist, I don't strongly care that we have a hack in an old branch of debian-cd
<lool> sbeattie: We're not really committed to supporting that officially, but we could have one if it helps getting more testing / better testing
<lool> But when there are issues, we're fixing them as part of lpia QA
<slangasek> 358762> can you set that bug back to new and subscribe ubuntu-release, then?
<lool> sure
<ogra> we could just upload it :)
<ogra> and close it .. the fix is three lines
<lool> done
<slangasek> well, he wanted an ack
<lool> ogra: I want a second opinion
<slangasek> that's how you get one of those :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> k
<slangasek> I think I've digested everything above; did I miss anything you needed comments on?
<lool> I'd like to know decisions on the other two
<lool> 349314: 359049:
<lool> 359049: I take it that we agree no kernel uploads anymore, so we'll stick to current hardcoding?
<slangasek> yes
<lool> 349314: will that be fixed in SRU?
<lool> pgraner: ^
<slangasek> 349314> what decision do you need?  sounds like the bug isn't fully triaged yet
<lool> I hoped we'd have more recent info, or a plan
<lool> It's the worst bug hitting UNR / EeePCs users
<slangasek> that looks appropriate for an SRU, IMHO
<pgraner> lool: we are working with upstream, and will be SRU
<lool> Shall we provide a ppa kernel for eeepc users?  release note it?
<pgraner> lool: prob could do with a release note
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to add release-note task for bug #349314
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to add release-note task for bug #349314
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349314 in linux "[i915] allocate MCHBAR space & enable if necessary" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/349314
<lool> Ok; thanks for discussion
<lool> done for mobile, unless there are any questions?
<slangasek> none for me
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team
<pgraner> slangasek: here goes the cut n paste
<pgraner>    * Bug:348275: iwlagn: NM applet doesn't connect to WPA2
<pgraner>     - Different cards, different systems, possibly a supplicant issue. Given the symptoms no critical.
<pgraner>    * Bug:336055: wrong ESSIDs shown after resume
<pgraner>     - Have a fix (abi bumper) we can add if we have to spin another kernel.
<pgraner>    * Bug:350491: hibernation should not be allowed when running kernel is gone from disk
<pgraner>     - Will have to check with apw on the status.
<pgraner>    * Bug:356975: imx51 oops after watchdog call
<pgraner>     - No fix, we will keep working, if we spin a new kernel we might be able to include.
<pgraner>    * Bug:331589: system beep in jaunty is the most annoying sound known to man
<pgraner>     - Fix Committed
<pgraner>    * Bug:340014: suspend/resume fails on Samsung NC10
<pgraner>     - Looking to be a BIOS or Hardware issue. Shipping hardware to cking to see if he can determine root cause. Possible SRU post-release.
<pgraner>    * Bug:358574: [drm:i915_gem_idle] *ERROR* hardware wedged
<pgraner>     - Intel freeze issues. rickspencer3 covered in his status.
<lool> 356975> You have something to include?
<lool> pgraner: In general, do you have any not included iMX51 patches around the corner?
<pgraner> lool: are you asking if we are holding back patches?
<lool> No, I had in mind that you might have received a bunch to review, and might not have time to consider them or perhaps they aren't suitable for pre-release merging
<lool> (I wasn't included in the kernel drops, and it's been a while since the previous one, so I'm hoping that FSL sent fixes for the most annoying bugs)
<pgraner> lool: no patches that I'm aware of, can you be more specific?
<pgraner> lool: I haven't seen patchs from FSL in weeks
<lool> pgraner: I wish for USB fixes and perhaps getting the wifi in shape, but I don't know how much hardware versus software these issues are; FSL is aware though
<ogra> the prob with 356975 is that it is only reproducable in use with NM
<ogra> which in turn waits for 356517 first
<slangasek> if there's any chance the right place to fix 350491 is outside the kernel package itself, we should probably consider that, so we have a chance to fix that before release
<lool> pgraner: Ok; too bad then, I hope we'll see patches in the future and they will be SRU-able
<lool> pgraner: thanks for the update!
<pgraner> lool: np
<slangasek> pgraner: is there a test kernel with the fix for 336055 that I could test here, to confirm that it fixes it?
<slangasek> 358574> I didn't see this covered in rickspencer3's status report
<pgraner> slangasek: I can get rtg to build you one
<slangasek> I'd appreciate it
<pgraner> slangasek: that is the Intel freeze issues we have 3 or four different freeze bugs that upstream think are all related
<slangasek> ok
<pgraner> Thats all from kernel team...
<rickspencer3> slangasek: ack what pgraner said regarding 358574
<rickspencer3> it's part of the whole "freeze" issue
 * slangasek nods
<pgraner> slangasek: if we don't get fixes we prob should do a release note
<slangasek> agreed
<slangasek> it's on the radar for now, we can sort that when we're a little closer to release and know more
<rickspencer3> I think there is a lot going on upstream as well, so an SRU may become possible if we want to go that route
<slangasek> we'll probably need to
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team
<slangasek> robbiew: hi
<robbiew> hi
<robbiew>  * Bug:339898: migration assistant offered on full-disk installs - Assigned to evand for investigation.
<robbiew> this was opened yesterday (I think)...and doubt evand had a chance to look at it before leaving
<robbiew> on holiday
<slangasek> it was opened weeks ago, actually
<slangasek> turned up in beta QA testing
<robbiew> ah
<robbiew> whoops
<robbiew> 03-09
<robbiew> not 04-09
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> in any case...seems to have sat
<robbiew> so I assigned to evand and will talk to him next week
 * slangasek nods
<robbiew> Bug:309411: bouncycastle MIR - Is this waiting on response regarding enabling testsuite? noticed it was marked Incomplete by kees.
<slangasek> yeah, that should be assigned to me, really
<robbiew> heh
<slangasek> (I'm partway through getting the testsuite enabled; so that bug'll be closed soon)
<robbiew> :)
<robbiew> ok
<robbiew> Bug 350016: aclocal python.m4 broken - The fix by doko works around the issue with "site-packages" vs "dist-packages", but introduces another with the path associated with --prefix now always ignored, i.e. /usr/local is always used.  We will need to figure out a better workaround, if possible.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 350016 in python2.6 "wrong quoting in aclocal's python.m4 check" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/350016
<lool> Ack, these causes a bunch of FTBFS again
<robbiew> not sure what to do on this one, as doko is having to workaround an issue we didn't create
<slangasek> I think the workaround needs to be dropped; I believe doko said on #ubuntu-release that he was going to revert that today, though I haven't seen it yet
<robbiew> agree
<robbiew> ok
<robbiew> doko: around?
<robbiew> I'll post a comment in the bug to recommend the dropping of the "fix"
 * slangasek nods
<robbiew> Bug 354793: apt cronjob fails in some timezones - jdstrand posted a proposed fix to apt.cron.daily, and looks to be waiting on the submitter to validate it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 354793 in apt "date returns "invalid date" for some timezone's DST " [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/354793
<jdstrand> actually, mvo committed it
<robbiew> ah
<lool> It's bank holiday in germany, he's probably not around
<robbiew> sweet
<jdstrand> (not to jaunty yet)
<robbiew> ok
<slangasek> so is mvo the assignee for jaunty?
<jdstrand> we spoke verbally that he is, yes
<slangasek> marked
<jdstrand> I don't recall what the bug says
<robbiew> nothing...from mvo heh
<jdstrand> there is another bug that will go with that one that we are also working on
<robbiew> ack
<robbiew> Bug 357884: "pycentral rtinstall" does not add python2.6 symlinks - last comment indicates that the solution is being discussed between cjwatson and mvo.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 357884 in python-central ""pycentral rtinstall" script does not add symlinks for python2.6 on upgrade" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/357884
 * slangasek nods
<robbiew> Bug 316756: login.defs conffile prompt on upgrade - appears that james_w has released a fix for this one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 316756 in system-tools-backends "conffile prompt on upgrade to jaunty" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/316756
<ogra> wow, that one is returning every second release
<slangasek> should stop returning if we kill off system-tools-backends :P
<slangasek> in the meantime, fix applied
 * ogra remembers he had hunted the same one down in breezy
<slangasek> robbiew: anything else we should be tracking?
<robbiew> not that I know of
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team
<slangasek> dendrobates: hi
<dendrobates> hi
<dendrobates> bug 350089
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 350089 in ecryptfs-utils "package ecryptfs-utils 73-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 1" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/350089
<robbiew> I ran into this one on upgrade...have /home on a separate partition
<slangasek> on upgrade, or on a reinstall preserving /home?
<dendrobates> robbiew: I don't think kirkland has been able to reproduce it.
<robbiew> reinstalled
<robbiew> but preserved /home
<slangasek> well, it's not clear why ecryptfs-utils is being removed here
<slangasek> and that seems to be the bug we're tracking
<robbiew> well...maybe I had a different issue
<slangasek> with the removal failure being a bit of UI unpleasantness, which is nevertheless deliberate?
<dendrobates> slangasek:  yes, kirkland believes it is a bug in the update-manager logic, per his last comment.
<slangasek> ok
<robbiew> great :/
<dendrobates> slangasek: I have not gotten an update from hom this morning, though.
<slangasek> alright, we'll pursue that one afterwards then
<slangasek> dendrobates: any other bugs that we should be tracking for server?
<dendrobates> apart from that, we have a vmbuilder regression.
<slangasek> bug #?
<dendrobates> getting.
<sbeattie> bug 342359?
<dendrobates> bug  342359
<dendrobates> yep
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 342359 in vm-builder "[jaunty] ubuntu-vm-builder crashed with ioctl in create()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/342359
<dendrobates> jdstrand: has a work around ready to upload.
<slangasek> ok; will watch for that in the queue today
<dendrobates> he is waiting for an approval from soren that has not come.
<dendrobates> ok.
<slangasek> anything else?
<dendrobates> nope, I think that is all.
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> nhandler: were you covering for ScottK today?
<nhandler> Yes slangasek
<nhandler> The only issue that he wanted to bring up was the Python 2.6 transition
<nhandler> There are still several transition bugs (some with patches) that need to be approved and then sponsored
<nhandler> However, the list has been decreasing at a nice rate
<slangasek> the two targeted bugs I have for python 2.6 are 353688 and 354415; is there a longer list somewhere?
<nhandler> slangasek: I have not seen one. I only know about the bugs where motu-release or ubuntu-universe-sponsors are subscribed.
<nhandler> Those are the only ones I have "lists" for
<nhandler> I could try and put together a list of bugs if that is desired
<slangasek> if they're all in process, no need
<slangasek> was mainly wondering if there were bugs I could help along, but if they're waiting on motu-release or u-u-s then I already know how to do that :)
<nhandler> slangasek: I think most/if not all of them are in progress. I will try to verify this, and create a list of any transition bugs that need someone to create a patch for
<slangasek> there are also some initial FTBFS bugs resulting from the autobuild retest; anyone interested in working on those for universe?
<nhandler> I'm not aware of any individual who is working on those bugs. \
<slangasek> fair enough
<nhandler> However, I can try to change that ;)
<slangasek> ok :)
<slangasek> nhandler: anything else we need to discuss?
<nhandler> ScottK only had that one issue. I personally think we should be in good shape.
<slangasek> excellent
<slangasek> nhandler: thanks for keeping us informed
<nhandler> You're welcome sla
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> any oddball issues to cover before we adjourn?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:24.
<slangasek> thanks, folks!
<lool> thanks
<lool> happy week-end
<robbiew> thnx
<jcastro> friendly reminder!
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
<jcastro> plenty of slots left for openweek
<nhandler> Thanks for the reminder jcastro, I should probably give some sort of session
<doko> slangasek: yes, around, but the final 2.6.2 release is not yet made. still on my list
<ember> persia ping, sorry i wasn't unable to attend
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-11
<vikashkoushik> Hi Guys
<vikashkoushik> I am trying to become a member of Ubuntu
<vikashkoushik> I thought I'll get some help from the Indian LoCo team but
<vikashkoushik> they think that I am trying to become a member so that i'll get the email id with which they think that i'll show of in front of my friends.
<vikashkoushik> I am not getting good response from them
<vikashkoushik> need help guys
<vikashkoushik> pls reply
<vikashkoushik> any body there????/
<vikashkoushik> anybody there?
 * charlie-tca waves
<knome> o/
<knome> let's wait for other to arrive
<knome> cody-somerville, will you be the chair?
<j1mc_> hi all
<j1mc_> i'll brb
<charlie-tca> Hello, j1mc_
<knome> hi jim
<knome> ok
<charlie-tca> knome: did you ping cody-somerville
<knome> yes, on jabber also
<knome> i can be the chair if he doesn't show up
<j1mc_> hi all
<knome> hi jim
<knome> i suppose we should just start
<knome> is that ok by everyone?
<JPohlmann> Sure
<charlie-tca> Let's do it.
<j1mc> knome: sure
<knome> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:38. The chair is knome.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<knome> [TOPIC] Review last meetings action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review last meetings action items
<j1mc> it's been a while since i looked at the meeing notes from the last meeting
<knome> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<knome> There's a lot of action items for Cody.
<knome> We haven't worked much on the wiki and the website with Jim.
<charlie-tca> team calendar is on google now
<knome> charlie-tca, did you set up a 5-a-day xubuntu team?
<knome> charlie-tca, link?
<charlie-tca> let me find it.
<knome> JPohlmann, have you "filed bugs against packages in xfce to indicate out-of-date documentation"?
<charlie-tca> I don't think we can set up a 5-a-day team after reading all the information. I think we have to do it as individuals and loco's instead
<knome> charlie-tca, right.
<knome> do we agree on this? :)
<JPohlmann> knome: Uh, no.
<charlie-tca> Here is the google calendare link:
<knome> JPohlmann, no problem. :)
<charlie-tca> https://www.google.com/calendar/render?cid=N2FqN2dnMWx2MjMzODJzajZwbWNzN3M5bnNAZ3JvdXAuY2FsZW5kYXIuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbQ&invEmailKey=cjk%40teamcharliesangels.com%3A16633eb577e94199078b6c024e975a77c242a377
<knome> ouch
<charlie-tca> I think?
<TheSheep> wheeee
<j1mc> they have modified how 5-a-day is done.  they did it just before the global bug jam.  it is more integrated into launchpad now.
<j1mc> hi TheSheep
<charlie-tca> Yes, j1mc. But individuals are still not being updated
<knome> [LINK] http://tinyurl.com/xubuntuteamcal
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://tinyurl.com/xubuntuteamcal
 * nhandler arrives
<j1mc> charlie-tca: correct.  i think it has a bit less functionality now.
<j1mc> it's still a work-in-progress
<TheSheep> "The one time calendar access transfer key is invalid"
 * charlie-tca thinks "a bit?"!
<knome> should we try to create the xubuntu group or try to get people working with their loco's?
<j1mc> i don't even really know the status of it now.
<knome> TheSheep, d'oh
<TheSheep> you need to copy the other link
<knome> TheSheep, works for me.
<TheSheep> not the 'one time' one
<charlie-tca> knome: delay it for now, until they get 5-a-day working again
<TheSheep> knome: apparently you were first :)
<charlie-tca> the tiny url link works
<knome> [AGREED] Delay setting up Xubuntu 5-a-day team until 5-a-day is working correctly again.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Delay setting up Xubuntu 5-a-day team until 5-a-day is working correctly again.
<charlie-tca> or did I send my own calendar out?
<knome> [TOPIC] Team updates
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team updates
<j1mc> packaging?
<j1mc> start there?
<knome> a new topic? :)
<j1mc> no, start with the packaging team update.  or whoever wants to start first. :)
<charlie-tca> who is packaging? mr_pouit ?
<knome> cody, ncommander maybe, mr_pouit
<knome> There's a lot of reporting from last month, but none yet from April.
<knome> ah, there is some.
<knome> it's mainly cody done some things.
<knome> [ACTION] Team leaders will update Team Report before 22th April.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Team leaders will update Team Report before 22th April.
<knome> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
<knome> any discussion about team updates?
<charlie-tca> yes
<nhandler> I would just like to say that for karmic, I hope to be able to help out with packaging for xubuntu
<charlie-tca> The next two mondays are ISO testing days
<knome> [ACTION] Next two mondays are ISO testing days.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Next two mondays are ISO testing days.
<charlie-tca> Since we release the RC on April 16 and Final on April 23, we need them tested
<JPohlmann> I remember Cody was hoping to get Xfce 4.6.1 into jaunty.
<charlie-tca> On Mondays, we smoke test as much as possible,
<knome> JPohlmann, me too.
<JPohlmann> We're currently in the process of releasing it but it might take a few days.
<JPohlmann> Is anyone able to tell how long packaging it would take?
<knome> didn't ncommander package it the last time?
<JPohlmann> Together with mr_pouit, yeah.
<charlie-tca> yes, he did
<JPohlmann> Though that was an update from 4.4.x to 4.6.0. 4.6.0 to 4.6.1 is a different thing but I suppose it'll take less time ;)
<j1mc> right
<j1mc> JPohlmann: JÃ©rÃ´me Guelfucci is making good use of identi.ca in providing updates about xfce progress.  I picked up his release of Gigolo 0.3 from there.
<knome> right.. anything else about the team reports?
<j1mc> any other packaging updates?
<j1mc> for documentation, i'm importing the translations.
<JPohlmann> j1mc: I read your mail about ident.ca. The way I see it it's just a matter of which channel to use in order to push information about updates out to the world. It doesn't really matter whether it's identi.ca, a mailing list or a weblog.
<knome> j1mc, from where?
<knome> lp?
<j1mc> JPohlmann: to some extent, yes, but there are some people who may only find out about somehting like that through just one of those channels.
<charlie-tca> I am compiling a list of Jaunty critical bugs for Xubuntu that will be posted to the wiki
<j1mc> knome: rosetta / launchpad.  matthew east and Adi Roiban are helping me.
<JPohlmann> j1mc: True. Therefor we have official channels like the xfce-announce and xfce mailinglist.
<JPohlmann> But it's nice if someone takes care of another well-known one. We can't support everything obviously ;)
<j1mc> JPohlmann: right.  i certainly don't see identi.ca updates as a "must have," just a "nice to have"
<knome> j1mc, charlie-tca: i updated the team report for you.
<charlie-tca> thanks
<knome> any other updates or discussions?
<j1mc> knome: yes
<knome> go on :)
<j1mc> are we just doing team reports stuff about current status, or are we also discussing other plans?
<SiDi> jlmc whats the latest deadline for doc translations ?
<j1mc> SiDi: they should be in now, but because we are in universe, mdke says we're ok.
<j1mc> i'll get them in this weekend.
<knome> j1mc, there is an agenda item for things relevant to finalizing 9.04
<SiDi> j1mc, ok, thanks, cause we're a  bit late with french doc
<j1mc> knome: ok, let's move on then.
<j1mc> SiDi: hurry. :)
<knome> j1mc, and an item for specs and blueprints for jaunty.
<knome> *karmic
<j1mc> knome: coolness.
<j1mc> i'm ok to move on if others are
<knome> [TOPIC] Xubuntu plans for Ubuntu Open Week
<MootBot> New Topic:  Xubuntu plans for Ubuntu Open Week
<knome> there was some discussion about the xubuntu session
<knome> on the mailing list mostly
<charlie-tca> I have signed up for April 27 at 2100 UTC
<knome> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
<charlie-tca> Are we doing more than one session?
<knome> we might do two consecutive.
<knome> charlie-tca, how much stuff do you have about Xubuntu QA in minutes?
<charlie-tca> I don't know. Last time I thought I had 30 minutes, but it was only 10
<charlie-tca> I did q & a for 20 minutes
<knome> right.
<charlie-tca> This time I have time to prepare, and can do an hour, if needed
<knome> ok, so maybe we should go for two sessions
<knome> i think the mail you sent was great.
<charlie-tca> I want us out there. This is for the non-developers to find out how good we are!
<j1mc> charlie-tca: i liked your email to the list, too.
<charlie-tca> Thanks, but what are we going to do for more involvement through open week?
<knome> [AGREED] We need to show off how good Xubuntu is to non-developers at Open Week
<MootBot> AGREED received:  We need to show off how good Xubuntu is to non-developers at Open Week
<knome> maybe we could do some slides to show
<knome> and prepare as a group
<charlie-tca> Keeping in mind, this is on IRC
<knome> sure.
<knome> i don't remember if it was openweek or developer week, but i saw a session with some slides
<knome> and they were really great.
<knome> they really supported the session
<charlie-tca> If it works, let's do it
<knome> well, we have to think about it
<knome> shall we have a meeting about openweek later on?
<charlie-tca> We have exactly two weeks
<knome> yeah.
<knome> next friday?
<charlie-tca> If we are going to do that, should we grab the slot on thur right after training
<charlie-tca> ?
<charlie-tca> Should be lots of people around then
<knome> right, let's do that
<knome> will you sign up for that?
<charlie-tca> Will do!
<knome> [ACTION] Charlie signs up for another session at Ubuntu Open Week
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Charlie signs up for another session at Ubuntu Open Week
<knome> thanks
<knome> so, should we have a team/community planning meeting about these session??
<knome> *sessions
<j1mc> i think that would be helpful
<j1mc> perhaps outline something via a google doc or gobby?
<knome> any suggestions for date?
<knome> sure
<knome> gobby sounds good
<SiDi> What about advertising the week on the irc channel ?
<knome> [ACTION] Keep a meeting about the Open Week sessions and outline things on Gobby
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Keep a meeting about the Open Week sessions and outline things on Gobby
<knome> SiDi, sure.
<knome> [ACTION] Everybody advertises Open Week on #xubuntu from now to eternity.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Everybody advertises Open Week on #xubuntu from now to eternity.
<SiDi> even once its finished ? :)
<j1mc> :)
<knome> SiDi, there is always next one
<nhandler> Blog posts on the planet might also help
<knome> nhandler, about the xubuntu sessions?
<knome> nhandler, or about open week?
<j1mc> the xubuntu sessions, of course
<nhandler> knome: Both. Blog about Open Week and mention the Xubuntu sessions
<knome> lol
<j1mc> perhaps outlining what we'll cover
<nhandler> You can also blog about it afterwards for people who missed the session
<knome> i will add that as idea, as i don't know who will do it
<charlie-tca> Somebody gonna teach me how to make gobby work?
<j1mc> cody-somerville and i are ok with the bloggings
<nhandler> charlie-tca: They might have some docs from the last UDS
<knome> [IDEA] Blog about (Xubuntu) Open Week (Sessions) before and after (preferably at Ubuntu Planet)
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Blog about (Xubuntu) Open Week (Sessions) before and after (preferably at Ubuntu Planet)
<charlie-tca> I couldn't make it work then, either
<knome> charlie-tca, i can teach.
<j1mc> charlie-tca: it took me a bit, too.  there are some really great gobby session notes available from the last UDS.
<knome> j1mc, i don't have ubuntu membership yet, so i can't write to planet.
<j1mc> charlie-tca: "from" the last uds.  not really how to use gobby, but gobby being used to keep notes
<knome> anything else about open week?
<j1mc> knome: that will have to be remedied. :)
<knome> we have items to cover
<charlie-tca> I know that. I couldn't follow nothing though, because I could not get gobby to work
<j1mc> ok, let's move on
<j1mc> charlie-tca: yeah :/
<charlie-tca> Gobby notes suck if you can't work gobby
<knome> [TOPIC] Discuss any issues relevant to finalizing the 9.04 release
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss any issues relevant to finalizing the 9.04 release
<nhandler> charlie-tca: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSKarmic/RemoteParticipation has a section on Gobby
 * knome gets something to drink.
<knome> JPohlmann, so will you investigate getting xfce 4.6.1 in jaunty with the packaging team?
<JPohlmann> There's not much to do about it other than to get 4.6.1 out as soon as possible. I'll bug our release manager again.
<knome> [ACTION] Jannis bugs Xfce release manager in getting 4.6.1 out as soon as possible.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Jannis bugs Xfce release manager in getting 4.6.1 out as soon as possible.
<j1mc> i don't know what kind of time crunch we are under to get these items in.
<j1mc> i guess cody would know
<nhandler> j1mc: The sooner the better
<JPohlmann> Right
<j1mc> nhandler: right
<knome> [ACTION] Jannis talks with Cody about including 4.6.1.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Jannis talks with Cody about including 4.6.1.
<knome> JPohlmann, no objections! :P
<knome> any other issues?
<knome> oh
<nhandler> j1mc: The archive is frozen and we are 2 weeks from Final Freeze: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2009-April/000561.html
<knome> [ACTION] Charlie is compiling a list of critical bugs in Jaunty.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Charlie is compiling a list of critical bugs in Jaunty.
<knome> nhandler, cody can get final freeze exceptions
<knome> nhandler, and he's *really good* in that.
 * j1mc nods
<knome> [ACTION] Jim is importing documentation from Rosetta/Launchpad with help from Matthew East and Adi Roiban.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Jim is importing documentation from Rosetta/Launchpad with help from Matthew East and Adi Roiban.
<nhandler> I personally would be hesitant to push a new version of xfce during final freeze. Read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze
<knome> anything else we have to discuss about 9.04?
<j1mc> as a note, it's the documentation translations :)
<knome> right...
<j1mc> :)
<knome> [ACTION] Jim is importing documentation translations from Rosetta/Launchpad with help from Matthew East and Adi Roiban.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Jim is importing documentation translations from Rosetta/Launchpad with help from Matthew East and Adi Roiban.
<j1mc> nothing else to talk about concerning 9.04 from me.
<knome> anybody else?
<knome> the artwork is in a quite good shape
<knome> the gdm background is now converted from svg to png buildtime.
<knome> ok right, let's go on
<j1mc> +1
<knome> [TOPIC] Specifications and blueprints for (UDS) Karmic
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specifications and blueprints for (UDS) Karmic
<knome> i've registered two specs
<knome> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/+spec/xubuntu-karmic-visual-concept
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/+spec/xubuntu-karmic-visual-concept
<knome> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/+spec/xubuntu-artwork-build-scripts
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/+spec/xubuntu-artwork-build-scripts
<knome> we need more specs
<j1mc> knome: do you think that the wiki mention of wiki pages should go under it's own spec?
<j1mc> "We also should discuss about how to make the Xubuntu wiki pages etc. look consistent with each other and not look totally outdated compared to the new artwork."
<j1mc> it seems like that is a separate item
<knome> right
<j1mc> [Agreed] We need more specifications from the Xubuntu team
<knome> it kind of is, but there's no reason to have another spec for it.
<knome> [AGREED] We need more specifications from the Xubuntu team.
<j1mc> hrm. mootbot is not listening to me
<MootBot> AGREED received:  We need more specifications from the Xubuntu team.
<knome> of course not, because i'm the chair :P
<j1mc> :)
<charlie-tca> A lot of those specs will come from UDS, too, though
<knome> sure
<j1mc> we should look at what specs got implemented for 9.04, revisit those specs
<j1mc> at least *also* do that
<j1mc> and look forward
<knome> [AGREED] Look at old specifications and whether they are implemented and revisit or mark superseded.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Look at old specifications and whether they are implemented and revisit or mark superseded.
<j1mc> JPohlmann: I will bug the one guy who wrote about putting the xfce documentation on the wiki.
<j1mc> I think that's a good idea.  Xfce needs updated docs
<knome> [AGREED] Xfce needs updated documentation.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Xfce needs updated documentation.
<JPohlmann> j1mc: You mean Nick?
<j1mc> JPohlmann: Mike Massonnet brought it up last
<JPohlmann> The main problem might be to find a suitable wiki system that supports generating nice offline documentation.
<knome> sorry guys, but let's leave open discussion for the end and get forward in the agenda, shall we? :)
<j1mc> knome: sure
<nhandler> JPohlmann: Why not go the other way. Aren't there docbook->moin tools?
<JPohlmann> j1mc: Okay ... I guess it's best if we discuss that on the xfce4-dev mailinglist.
<knome> [TOPIC] Brainstorm ideas
<MootBot> New Topic:  Brainstorm ideas
<knome> #
<knome> # Uncheck "Save session for future logins" in Quit dialog by default
<knome> [LINK] http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/item/16756/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/item/16756/
<JPohlmann> nhandler: Because docbook is kind of a high barrier. And offline docs are painful to maintain.
<knome> folks! concentratE!
<j1mc> :)
<knome> is there any updates on saving session thing?
<j1mc> knome: i don't have any updates
<knome> JPohlmann?
<j1mc> let's table that one.
<knome> [LINK] http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/10852/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/10852/
<knome> "Update Xubuntu artwork on the live cd boot screen"
<knome> for Karmic.
<knome> i update the karmic artwork spec to include live cd artowrk
<j1mc> cool :)
<knome> charlie-tca, you here? :]
<charlie-tca> Shouldn't that be the same artwork as GDM?
<knome> [TOPIC] Increased tests for Live CD session
<MootBot> New Topic:  Increased tests for Live CD session
<charlie-tca> I got lost
<knome> charlie-tca, sure. but also the live cd boot menu
<j1mc> i think the issue was that xubuntu had the same colored backgroupd as ubuntu during the install.
<knome> charlie-tca, the usplash-like menu
<j1mc> the usplash menu, too.
<charlie-tca> I have expanded the testing page. I will be splitting the short test into desktop/live cd and installed testing
<j1mc> not sure how this will work with xubuntu being in universe.
<knome> whatever the issues are, we will fix them in karmic
<knome> charlie-tca, can you provide links again?
<charlie-tca> This is what we have: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Short
<charlie-tca> I need to split it so it is not so long
<knome> [ACTION] (Brainstorm ideas) Live CD boot screen/artwork graphics will be fixed in Karmic.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (Brainstorm ideas) Live CD boot screen/artwork graphics will be fixed in Karmic.
<knome> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Short
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Short
<knome> [ACTION] Charlie to work on the Testing wiki pages and split them to be shorted and readable.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Charlie to work on the Testing wiki pages and split them to be shorted and readable.
<knome> *shorter :P
<charlie-tca> :-)
<knome> do we need to review the items?
<j1mc> The Ubuntu documentation team is pretty active lately.  I'm not sure of all of the changes that we'll be making, but we should have better documentation for 9.20.
<knome> 9.10 :)
<j1mc> heh, yes.  9.10
<knome> [AGREED] We should have much better documentation for Karmic.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  We should have much better documentation for Karmic.
<j1mc> If you could set an action item to update the css for the Xubuntu documentation, I will be adding that as a spec
<knome> [ACTION] Pasi to bug about people about joining the Xubuntu Team and write documentation.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Pasi to bug about people about joining the Xubuntu Team and write documentation.
<knome> [ACTION] Pasi to update the CSS for the Xubuntu documentation with Jim.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Pasi to update the CSS for the Xubuntu documentation with Jim.
<knome> [ACTION] Jim adds a specification about branding and reworking the Xubuntu documentation artwork and looks.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Jim adds a specification about branding and reworking the Xubuntu documentation artwork and looks.
<j1mc> This release we tried to use yelp, and it didn't work out, so I spent time toward the end of the cycle converting things to the older format rather than writing a lot of new stuff.
 * SiDi is fine with CSS, if help is needed there.
<j1mc> SiDi: cool - are you on the xubuntu-devel mailing list?
<SiDi> yes
<knome> there is nothing like [INFO] :(
<SiDi> there should be a [LOVE] one.
<knome> [ACTION] SiDi helps knome and Jim with the documentation CSS if needed.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  SiDi helps knome and Jim with the documentation CSS if needed.
<knome> right.. that wasn't particularly logical.
<knome> [ACTION] Steve (SiDi) helps Pasi and Jim with the documentation CSS if needed.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Steve (SiDi) helps Pasi and Jim with the documentation CSS if needed.
<knome> charlie-tca, anything else about the tests for live cd session?
<charlie-tca> Not right now. If anyone thinks something else should be included in testing, let me know.
<charlie-tca> Please!
<knome> ok
<j1mc> charlie-tca: will do.
<knome> i think we should leave the karmic artwork brainstorm for later.
<j1mc> knome: sounds good
<knome> at least to some time cody is available
<charlie-tca> Oh, by the way, I want to try shipping Xubuntu 9.04 cd's in north america.
<charlie-tca> This is on my own, out of my own pocket.
<knome> right.
<j1mc> wow
<knome> that would be great.
<knome> i think we need to discuss that more widely.
<charlie-tca> Start with North America until I can deal with customs
<knome> i am willing to ship xubuntu cd's as well.
<knome> charlie-tca, let's put that into the next community meeting agenda
<charlie-tca> Great, knome
<knome> we definitely need cody's opinion
<charlie-tca> Well, we start shipping in a couple of weeks.
<knome> "we" ?
<knome> :)
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu
<knome> w00t?
<knome> via what
<SiDi> I think charlie-tca means we should have an agreement on this before 23
<SiDi> so we can be ready to ship xubuntu at the same time than ubuntu and kubuntu
<charlie-tca> Thank you, SiDi
<charlie-tca> And if anyone requests it, we should be able to send out the cd
<knome> oh right.
<charlie-tca> No bulk shipments, one per address
<knome> then let's discuss about it at the meeting with open week stuff
<knome> right?
<charlie-tca> Okay
<knome> [ACTION] Discuss shipping Xubuntu CD's in the Open Week planning session.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Discuss shipping Xubuntu CD's in the Open Week planning session.
<knome> are we done or is there any other items?
<knome> [TOPIC] Open discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
<charlie-tca> Like to thank everybody that showed up today.
<j1mc> me too
<knome> me too.
<knome> i will set the minutes up.
<j1mc> I've joined the gnome-doc mailing list, and as they look to make changes for gnome 3.0, i will try to make any new directions relatively platform independent
<j1mc> at least, offer those suggestions up.
<knome> [ACTION] Jim joined the gnome-dev mailing list and tries to make any new directions (relatively) platform independent
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Jim joined the gnome-dev mailing list and tries to make any new directions (relatively) platform independent
<charlie-tca> Oh, good.
<j1mc> of course, i am just one dude, but if they are going to do something like replace yelp, why not replace it with something that can be used by something other than just gnome.
<charlie-tca> One person at a time, right
<knome> when was the last meeting?
<knome> right, 15.2.
<charlie-tca> two months ago?
<j1mc> i feel like we had one in march
<knome> there's no minutes up from it
<j1mc> i just don't think the meeting page got updated.
<knome> right
<knome> i think i wasn't there
<JPohlmann> j1mc: Sounds good
<charlie-tca> We skipped march
<j1mc> ah, ok
<j1mc> ok, well... anything else?
<knome> if there is anything else, please let us now in a few minutes :)
<charlie-tca> Iá¸¿ done
<j1mc> i vote to adjourn the meeting :)
<knome> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:59.
<j1mc> thanks, all
<knome> hmm... kinky timezone
<j1mc> have a good rest of your weekend!
<knome> you too
<charlie-tca> Thanks, everybody.
<cprofitt> Pricey you here?
<cprofitt> .ubuntulog
<ausimage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
<ausimage> ;)
<cprofitt> thanks ausimage
<cprofitt> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:31. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cprofitt> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:31.
<cprofitt> alright... it works
<SiDi> how did your meeting go ?
<SiDi> not too much arguing ? :d
<cprofitt> meeting starts in 28 minutes actually
<SiDi> aw
<cprofitt> was just testing the controls out
<SiDi> What meeting is that ?
<Vantrax> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
<SiDi> (i was here for the xubuntu one and i didnt leave channel, just curious about whats gonna go on ;p)
<SiDi> Nice, i didn't know that group
<cprofitt> join us then...
<cprofitt> we appreciate all the feedback, advice and interested people that show up
<SiDi> I've got a lot of work at the moment :)
<cprofitt> no problem...
<cprofitt> we will post logs...
<SiDi> Personal and university projects. I can't join teams without having time available to contribute to what they do.
 * cprofitt nods
<cprofitt> I can understand that...
<cprofitt> full time job and three kids are what eat my time
<SiDi> i'll look after your team if i meet you at the UDS ;)
<SiDi> ouch :P i can't even imagine having children right now :)
<Vantrax> <- has a kid on the way
<cprofitt> grats Vantrax
<cprofitt> I have a three (1, 3, 8)
<SiDi> I recommand you wait to see how they are at 13/14 before you make another one :>
<cprofitt> I will  make no more...
<cprofitt> I am too old for that now
 * cprofitt FIVE minutes until the EDU meeting starts
<cprofitt> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Education Initiative
<MootBot> New Topic:  Education Initiative
<cprofitt> Welcome everyone
<cprofitt> This is the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team Education Focus Group
 * pleia2 waves
<cprofitt> Tonight we will be discussing our project of adopting Moodle and integrating it in with existing resources for Ubuntu Education
<Vantrax> Thanks for coming pleia2
<cprofitt> We are using MootBot and the instructions can be found here
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
<cprofitt> I would like to thank everyone who has shown up for our meeting.
<cprofitt> Now I would like to introduce the man leading the charge - Vantrax
<cprofitt> take it away Vantrax
<Vantrax> Sheesh....
<Vantrax> that might be an overstatement:P
<Vantrax> All right, for anyone that hasnt already seen it, the agenda can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
<cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
<cprofitt> for the agenda
<Vantrax> Im going to assume that no one here has an idea of what were doing and give a quick recap
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Name of Project
<MootBot> New Topic:  Name of Project
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Overview
<MootBot> New Topic:  Overview
<Vantrax> Our intention is to create an interactive learning environment to support new users becoming more engaged in the Ubuntu community. Our goal is to take new motivated users and turn them into contributing members of the community.
<Vantrax> We plan to do this by using moodle to coordinate all the various methods currently being used to teach with all the different teams currently engaged in various sorts of training
<Vantrax> The intention of this program is to avoid competition with the existing official training program. This training will cover some similar process but will not have any accreditation or certification associated with it, and may act as a feeder into the official components. The information contained is intended to suplement the work already being done by several groups in IRC training to make their programs easier to find, and easier to take.
<Vantrax> [TOPIC] Name of Project
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Name of Project
<MootBot> New Topic:  Name of Project
<Vantrax> First bit off the line, we have to name what the project is going to be. The suggestions from community and canonical staff have been to include community and training or education. We are also currently petitioning to use the Ubuntu name and expect that it is likely to be granted
<Vantrax> Aside from Ubuntu Community Training, and Ubuntu Community Education are there any other suggestions that people would like considered
<cprofitt> [IDEA]Ubuntu Community Training
<MootBot> IDEA received: Ubuntu Community Training
<JoshuaRL> o/
<Vantrax> go JoshuaRL
<cprofitt> [IDEA]Ubuntu Community Education
<MootBot> IDEA received: Ubuntu Community Education
<JoshuaRL> Ubuntu Community Learning
<cprofitt> [IDEA]Ubuntu Community Learning (JoshuaRL)
<MootBot> IDEA received: Ubuntu Community Learning (JoshuaRL)
<Vantrax> Other suggestions?
<pleia2> I worry about "Community Training" because it's so similar to the official stuff, and in every instance the official canonical training folks will have the "training" name already
<JoshuaRL> pleia2: +1
<Vantrax> Jono actually preferred that one because it was similar, but clearly community based and not official.
<cprofitt> I prefer education myself... but learning is good.
<tim_sharitt> IMO, something with education or learning is more inviting to casual users and new users
<forestpixie> +1
<cprofitt> I emailed Jono about the difference between Education and Training, but have not received a response yet
<tim_sharitt> training sounds too formal
<pleia2> Vantrax: well, thus far the canonical training folks have launchpad and mailing lists called "ubuntu training" or somesuch
<cprofitt> yes, training sounds like something will be done to you...
<cprofitt> and we plan on some self-paced learning
<Vantrax> Personally I am partital to Education
<pleia2> I like Education
<cprofitt> does anyone want the differences as I laid them out?
<tim_sharitt> +1 for education
<pleia2> cprofitt: sure :)
<JoshuaRL> cprofitt: go ahead
<cprofitt> ok...
<cprofitt> the education, instruction, or discipline of a person or thing that is being trained
<cprofitt> the act or process of imparting or acquiring general knowledge, developing the powers of reasoning and judgment, and generally of preparing oneself or others intellectually for mature life
<cprofitt> the first is training
<cprofitt> the second is education
<JoshuaRL> cprofitt: got learning available?
<cprofitt> not handy
<cprofitt> but can look it up
<cprofitt>  	the act or process of acquiring knowledge or skill.
<JoshuaRL> knowledge acquired by systematic study in any field of scholarly application.
<JoshuaRL> oops, missed yours  :)
<cprofitt> I like Education because it can be self-paced or instructor lead
<Vantrax> Im still partial to Education looking at the definitions, everyone happy with that, or would you like to vote?
<forestpixie> we need to vote I think
<cprofitt> [VOTE] Name - Ubuntu Community Education
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Name - Ubuntu Community Education.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<tim_sharitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tim_sharitt. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<forestpixie> 1
<JoshuaRL> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from JoshuaRL. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<forestpixie> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from forestpixie. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<Vantrax> Any other votes?
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<cprofitt> [VOTE]Ubuntu Community Learning
<MootBot> Please vote on: Ubuntu Community Learning.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cprofitt> 0
<cprofitt> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cprofitt. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<Vantrax> 0
<Vantrax> +0
<JoshuaRL> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from JoshuaRL. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<MootBot> Abstention received from Vantrax. 0 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
<forestpixie> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from forestpixie. 0 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -1
<tim_sharitt> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from tim_sharitt. 0 for, 1 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -1
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 1 against. 4 abstained. Total: -1
<cprofitt> [VOTE]Ubuntu Community Training
<MootBot> Please vote on: Ubuntu Community Training.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cprofitt> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from cprofitt. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<tim_sharitt> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from tim_sharitt. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<forestpixie> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from forestpixie. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<Vantrax> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Vantrax. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
<JoshuaRL> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from JoshuaRL. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 4 against. 1 abstained. Total: -4
 * nhandler arrives
<cprofitt> [AGREED]Ubuntu Community Education
<MootBot> AGREED received: Ubuntu Community Education
<cprofitt> We will need to review that with Canonical
<cprofitt> [TOPIC]Use of the Ubuntu name
<MootBot> New Topic: Use of the Ubuntu name
<Vantrax> As before, any use of the Ubuntu name has to be approved by the branding/copyright group. A formal request has been made and is expected to be approved based on support from the Official Ubuntu training team leaders, community manager, and sadbfl
<Vantrax> Just a little status update on that side of things
<cprofitt> [TOPIC]Training/Education focus
<MootBot> New Topic: Training/Education focus
<Vantrax> cprofitt: mind if we do Integrating with the community first?
<cprofitt> [TOPIC]Integrating with the community
<MootBot> New Topic: Integrating with the community
<Vantrax> This has been an area of consern in planning this project, many groups in the community are already doing training.
<Vantrax> The plan is that a new launchpad team and mailing list will be created including the representatives for the training program (currently dubbed Ubuntu Community Education) to make it a new entity that is a collaberation of teams, not the property of existing teams (ie Its not a Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team or a Classroom project).
<Vantrax> Does anyone have any comments or suggestions in regard to this side of things
<nhandler> I would like to see a few different teams created
<pleia2> what kinds of things would be discussed there that wouldn't be on existing lists?
<nhandler> For instance, a team for people interested in forum education, motu education, wiki education, etc. You would then have a parent team which has these smaller teams as members
<pleia2> I'd rather not see a bunch of half-dead lists be created for specific things when discussions on all of them could be useful for everyone involved
<Vantrax> pleia2: the idea is more that there are not several lists
<cprofitt> I just want to state that the focus is to augment existing training... not replace it. We want to increase the use of IRC #classroom and have more people become involved with MOTU, Documentation, etc...
<Vantrax> nhandler: most of these teams have lists already that serve this function isnt it?
<JoshuaRL> nhandler: that could easily be handled within each respective team, if they decide they need it
<nhandler> Vantrax: There aren't specific teams/lists for the education element of these teams
<Vantrax> The idea is to provide a better method for training to tie the community training together
<pleia2> yeah, currently motu, bugs, etc discuss thing within their own teams, since everyone in their team can contribute
<cprofitt> Vantrax, I would think that the other teams would be fine on their own internal lists still... but the new group would allow for a common list to be shared for the areas that cross
<nhandler> For instance, we have a MOTU School, but no MOTU School list/team
<Vantrax> nhandler: i see what you meen now
<cprofitt> I would think those teams have internal issues that do not need to be discussed in the context of education
<cprofitt> so the new group would provide a shared 'education' list
<Vantrax> nhandler: I would tend to assume it would be up to each contributing area to decide if they need a group/mailing list for this
<cprofitt> and only focus on the education piece for all included teams
<pleia2> I don't think we want to insist upon groups having a "motu school team/list" the reason they discuss this on their main lists is because they want to, and it attracts attention from everyone in their teams instead of segregating it
<JoshuaRL> Vantrax: +1.  this should just be a parent group
<Vantrax> such as the Beginners Team has done with its Education Focus Group
<cprofitt> pleia2, I agree...
<cprofitt> I think vantrax's idea was to create one combined EDU list
<nhandler> pleia2: I am not saying we need separate lists, I just think creating sub-teams of this new education team would be a good idea
<JoshuaRL> pleia2: +1
<Vantrax> The idea of the list is that everyone has a central point for edu related info
<cprofitt> so that teams could discuss education together in a combined place
<pleia2> nhandler: I fail to use the usefulness
<Vantrax> or to seek help on setting up a course on the moodle installation
<nhandler> pleia2: Organization. You could see who is interested in certain types of lessons. You could then have different people in charge of coordinating those lessons
<cprofitt> 0/
<pleia2> nhandler: I think it adds complexity and requirements upon teams doing lessons
<pleia2> I think we want to make it easy for them :)
<cprofitt> pleia2, would you have education issues cross posted on the regular team lists?
<pleia2> cprofitt: yeah, then more people see it and perhaps someone who didn't know about it could toss in their info, wider audiences are generally good
<pleia2> putting education stuff in its own corner tends to cause things to die off
<cprofitt> would it be good to have one 'uber' list plus cross posting? or just all cross posting?
<cprofitt> I see two sides... keeping people involved and the 'logs' of the list... one 'education' list would make it easy to find education posts...
<pleia2> uber list plus cross posting
<cprofitt> cool... I think I like that idea...
<nhandler> Having an uber list would also make it easy for people to contact the people in charge of the lessons
<JoshuaRL> pleia2: +1
<cprofitt> Vantrax?
<pleia2> like currently with classroom a couple of us are on main ubuntu lists, read planet and news, and when we see a lesson we post about it to -classroom, we encourage teams doing classes to publicise them with classroom, but they're cross posted elsewhere too
<pleia2> nhandler: agreed
<cprofitt> so do we need a new team or just a mailing list to accomplish that?
<Vantrax> Im just thinking how easy is this going to be for a new user looking for information
<forestpixie> probably easier than looking all over the place
<nhandler> cprofitt: If you are making the list through Launchpad, you need a team
<pleia2> Vantrax: me too, I fear that having too many subteams would be confusing (and if one is dead and the rest are busy? they get a false impression of the project if they join that dead one...)
<cprofitt> Vantrax, I think the mix of Uber list and cross posting should solve the issue of finding things... but also pollinate the existing groups
<Vantrax> I think we should have an LP team related to the organisational side of this, for people contributing materials or helping coordinate
<cprofitt> k...
<forestpixie> +1
<forestpixie> although we could use the one we already have couldn't we
<Vantrax> I think we should also have a mailing list for information on training, and sublist for each area that are crossposted
<Vantrax> forestpixie: the idea is for another group not related to an existing group
<pleia2> it's the sublist I have trouble with
<nhandler> Vantrax: That is what my idea about the subteams was partially about
<nhandler> However, I don't think the sublists are needed
<Vantrax> ok, subteams but not sublists?
<nhandler> Yes
<pleia2> I don't think subteamsare needed either
<nhandler> That would keep things organized
<Rocket2DMn> o/
<nhandler> pleia2: Why? If I am only interested in doing a certain type of session, you don't think that matters
<Vantrax> pleia2: I agree, but I can see the use on the organisational side
<Vantrax> go Rocket2DMn
<JoshuaRL> o/ 2
<cprofitt> Rocket2DMn,
<pleia2> nhandler: subteams are essentially already handled by the projects themselves, asking them to join these seems excessive
<Rocket2DMn> I've been following some of this discussion, it's become apparent that sublists definitely dont work, we saw this on the BT
<Rocket2DMn> re: Subteams, who would actually be ON the subteams?
<cprofitt> +1 Rocket2DMn
<Vantrax> Rocket2DMn: I think were past sublists
<tim_sharitt> I don't think we need subteams/sublists right now unless we see that are actually needed in the future
<pleia2> tim_sharitt: +1
<cprofitt> Lets vote on this...
<forestpixie> +1 tim_sharitt
<Rocket2DMn> a "subteam" is more of a reference to a completely other ubuntu team
<JoshuaRL> i think that we should use one list, and one team.  if the traffic and the work gets exessive, then we can make them
<Vantrax> Id leave it as an option if we expand too rapidly, but for the moment the scale is a little small
<cprofitt> [VOTE]One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists
<MootBot> Please vote on: One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<forestpixie> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from forestpixie. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<tim_sharitt> +1
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tim_sharitt. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<JoshuaRL> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from JoshuaRL. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<cprofitt> any more votes - Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> i wont vote on your stuff guys, just thought i'd provide some input.  thank you
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<cprofitt> [AGREED]One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists
<MootBot> AGREED received: One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists
<jpds> So, you lot don't want a list at lists.ubuntu.com?
<Vantrax> Its likely that thats where the list will be made
<pleia2> it would be nice to have ubuntu-education :)
<cprofitt> +1 pleia2
<JoshuaRL> +1
<forestpixie> +1
<cprofitt> next topic Vantrax ?
<nhandler_> jpds: Doesn't the team need to be an official Ubuntu team to use lists.ubuntu.com
<pleia2> and the ubuntu-classroom would simply be an aggregation of events in the #ubuntu-classroom channel
<pleia2> list
<jpds> pleia2: Someone beat you to it: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-education
<cprofitt> {TOPIC]Training/Education focus
<MootBot> New Topic: Training/Education focus
<nhandler> jpds: Those darn edubuntu people ;)
<pleia2> oh, edubuntu?
<cprofitt> we can be ubuntu-community-education
<jpds> nhandler: I'd have to check policy for non-LoCo mailing lists first.
<Vantrax> we will work something out:P
<nhandler> jpds: I'll talk with the brainstorm people. I know they recently moved from launchpad to lists.ubuntu.com
<Vantrax> To start with its been suggest that we start with three basic streems of courses.
<Vantrax> One aimed at new users to learn the basics of how Ubuntu works and how to work with your system.
<Vantrax> a more sysadmin based stream to learn how to administrate Ubuntu system for business and educational environments.
<Vantrax> lastly a contributor stream that focuses on learning how to contribute to the development of Ubuntu
<Vantrax> New User Sample Course Ideas:
<Vantrax> Learn about the terminal, how installing applications and repositories work, filling in a bug reports, modifying your desktop and theming, Root and Sudo, Partitioning and fstab, how to use IRC, how to use the Ubuntu Wiki, how to use Launchpad (Bugs and Answers), Linux file permissions, and the linux file system hiarchy.
<cprofitt> I would like to suggest another stream - an Trainer stream -- a course to help people who want to be trainers
<Vantrax> SysAdmin Sample Course Ideas:
<Vantrax> Basic Security Practices, Apparmor and Iptables, Networked logins using pam modules, locking down the gnome desktop, mantaining large scale SOE deployments (cssh and rc.local), automating remote backups, and Ubuntu SOE development.
<cprofitt> I think it is critical that we be able to 'grow' people as trainers
<forestpixie> +1
<Vantrax> Contributor Sample Course Ideas:
<Vantrax> Python Programming, how to use bzr, how to build a package, Introduction to Kernel Compiling, Introduction to Compiling, How to Triage Bugs, introduction to Launchpad Translations,
<JoshuaRL> cprofitt: that would be covered in the contributor stream right?
<cprofitt> perhaps, but not by what Vantrax just posted...
<Vantrax> Now there are also options for a security stream looked at as well focusing more on  advanced security practices, encryption, intrustion detection, and penetration testing (nubuntu style). This however is out of scope initially due to its complex nature.
<nhandler> Vantrax: Have you talked with james_w yet? He is currently the Dean of the MOTU School
<Vantrax> not yet, hence why I was askin you if anyone else from MOTU should be here:P
<cprofitt> Vantrax, pleia2 what are your thoughts on developing the instructors?
 * nhandler doesn't remember being asked that
<Vantrax> As said, these are just samples for discussion to get an idea
<pleia2> cprofitt: no comments, good idea
<nhandler> cprofitt: I think those types of sessions would be great to give, especially before an Open Week or Dev Week
<Vantrax> cprofitt: good idea
<cprofitt> I just can not see us growing the offerings unless we ensure people are ready to be instructors
<cprofitt> so it seems to be central to the success of the project
<Vantrax> I would defineately agree
<Vantrax> gah, horrible spelling
<JoshuaRL> cprofitt: but maybe it could be in the contributor stream.  stickeyed, so to speak, but it makes sense for it to be there.
<cprofitt> I do not think this needs a vote... we need to flesh that out and work with the stakeholders
<Vantrax> JoshuaRL: I would think that would be the right spot to put it
<cprofitt> which I believe brings us to our next topic
<Vantrax> thats the next bit:P
<cprofitt> [TOPIC]Identifying Stakeholders
<MootBot> New Topic: Identifying Stakeholders
<Vantrax> So now that we have an idea who we are looking at, who are our stakeholders for this project?
<nhandler> I would definitely try and get james_w involved
<Vantrax> I would guess were looking at MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, New Users Network
<JoshuaRL> Rocket2DMn: documentation team should be included, right?
<Vantrax> I dont think NUN is active..
<pleia2> NUN is dead
<nhandler> Vantrax: It isn't last I checked
<cprofitt> MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation -- those are the right groups?
<JoshuaRL> sounds good cprofitt
<Vantrax> also if anyone can supply contact leads for the education programs that would be good:P
<Vantrax> I have about half of them
<nhandler> Who do you need Vantrax ?
<cprofitt> [VOTE]Initial Stakeholders = MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation
<MootBot> Please vote on: Initial Stakeholders = MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Vantrax> i have motu now, but email would be nice
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<JoshuaRL> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from JoshuaRL. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<forestpixie> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from forestpixie. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<tim_sharitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tim_sharitt. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
<cprofitt> [AGREED]MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation
<MootBot> AGREED received: MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation
<cprofitt> [ACTION]MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation will be contacted by Vantrax or cprofitt
<MootBot> ACTION received: MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation will be contacted by Vantrax or cprofitt
<JoshuaRL> Vantrax: matthew east (mdke) mdke@ubuntu.com for Doc team
<JoshuaRL> or cprofitt  :)
<nhandler> james_w for MOTU, probably bdmurray for Bug Squad
<Vantrax> Rocket2DMn: who runs the bugsquad training?
<nhandler> Vantrax: They don't really have an active training program afaik. But bdmurray is in charge of the team
<Vantrax> okies, they have alot of material that ive seen
<pleia2> yeah, they do regular bug days that include training
<pleia2> but it's not that specific
<cprofitt> [TOPIC]Developing Online Courseware
<MootBot> New Topic: Developing Online Courseware
<nhandler> pleia2: The bug days aren't really training sessions
<Vantrax> we should make it a little more, even if it is just on the moodle and not in IRC
<cprofitt> Vantrax tells me that this topic is my ball...
<pleia2> nhandler: right, but if people ask for help on how to get started they get help
<pleia2> which is why I say it's not that specific :)
<Vantrax> need to make it a little easier, and a little more specific:P
<cprofitt> When it comes to Moodle there are two types of on-line courses that I am familiar with
<cprofitt> instructor lead and self-paced
<pleia2> Vantrax: I dunno, I think we need to ask them how things are going and offer help if they want it ;)
<Vantrax> yep, thats all im planning on with anyone
<cprofitt> Instructor lead is a course that will make use of wiki material, activities in moodle, forum posts and IRC sessions
<cprofitt> self-paced would involve moodle activites and wiki information that people would walk through themselve
<Vantrax> Over time I would guess those resources would probably all end up in moodle (aside from forum posts and active IRC sessions)
<cprofitt> on their own
<cprofitt> Vantrax, I see no reason to duplicate the material that is naturally going to be in the wiki
<cprofitt> inside of Moodle
<cprofitt> create activities, etc for it sure...
<JoshuaRL> cprofitt: self paced would probably be a re-tooling of the instructor led info, right?
<pleia2> Vantrax: perhaps, but I think we should always be mindful of accessibility, it would be ashame to insist upon everything being in moodle and then lose that resource at some point
<cprofitt> but the base information should likely stay in the wiki
<pleia2> that happened to Classroom, Classroom summaries were put on a blog, which disappeared :(
<Vantrax> I tend to think that training and information are presented very differently
<cprofitt> Vantrax, yes, but in a great many courses they use text books written by others
<cprofitt> and the instructor guides people through the material...
<Vantrax> No argument there:P
<cprofitt> gives them activities to ensure they learn the knowledge and can apply it
<Vantrax> More thinking for the self paced courses where it is not instructor led
<cprofitt> for me the wiki is the text book
<cprofitt> with self-paced the material can link to the wiki
<cprofitt> and then give them exercises
<cprofitt> internal to Moodle
<cprofitt> I think the idea will have to be massaged as we move forward with it...
<Vantrax> as with everything:P
<cprofitt> but as we are not building the entire core of knowledge from the ground up we have to respect the normal location of this knowledge
<Vantrax> cprofitt: +1
<cprofitt> curious on pleia2 and nhandler and Rocket2DMn - thoughts
<cprofitt> JoshuaRL, ?
<pleia2> I'm good
<nhandler> cprofitt: Who is going to be in charge of keeping the online stuff up-to-date?
<forestpixie> that sounds right to me cprofitt
<JoshuaRL> i like the idea of using existing info for the instructor led courses
<cprofitt> nhandler, I would assume that the wiki would fall to any of the people who would normally do that...
<tim_sharitt> sounds good cprofitt :)
<Vantrax> nhandler: the stuff in moodle or wiki or?
<JoshuaRL> the less duplication, the better.
<cprofitt> and that instructors teaching that course would bear soem of that burden too
<cprofitt> the Moodle course would be maintained just by the instructors
<cprofitt> does that sound good nhandler ?
<nhandler> It sounds good, we'll see if it works
<cprofitt> k
<cprofitt> [TOPIC]Project Milestones
<MootBot> New Topic: Project Milestones
<cprofitt> back to you Vantrax
<Vantrax> This is pretty simple and quick
<Vantrax> Just a little breakdown of how things should go forward from here (pick it apart)
<Vantrax> The information discussed here will form a project plan with the scope and aim
<Vantrax> that will be posted to planet, and mailed to everyone
<Vantrax> Then we get the initial deployment of moodle started and get the theme done
<Vantrax> We need to create content guidelines (presentation standards and layout)
<Vantrax> then moderator groups based on contributing areas
<Vantrax> we need to get sample courses delivered in moodle using the standards, preferably getting the entire new user stream ready as a priority
<Vantrax> Announcement to community and a call for more topics that people want covered
<cprofitt> yes, and that sample can be a course on how to use Moodle as an instructor
<Vantrax> more course development based on feedback with at least one streem complete
<JoshuaRL> cprofitt: nice idea
<Vantrax> the of course an official launch
<Vantrax> ^then
<JoshuaRL> Vantrax: yeah, the new user stream should definitely be a high priority
<cprofitt> Moodle also allows for you to use an existing course as a template... so we should plan on using that feature as well
<nhandler> cprofitt: Does Moodle support OpenID?
<Vantrax> nhandler: it does
<cprofitt> nhandler, I believe we are working on that...
<cprofitt> not sure if we have the config done on it though
<cprofitt> bodhi is the man with the plan there
<Vantrax> nope, bodhi will be working on it
<nhandler> We could maybe use that along with the Launchpad API to grant certain privileges on Moodle to members of certain teams
<cprofitt> Yes..
<Vantrax> nhandler: that would be a good idea
<cprofitt> we will have to have admins, instructors and students
<cprofitt> the instructor lead classes will need periods in which the course can be registered for
<Vantrax> also probably a moderators for a stream
<cprofitt> self-paced can be 100% open
<cprofitt> last topic Vantrax ?
<cprofitt> [TOPIC]Session feedback mechanism
<MootBot> New Topic: Session feedback mechanism
<Vantrax> forestpixie asked about this
<forestpixie> Bodhi wanted us to look into having some sort of feedback mechanism that users can access after sessions have run - the idea at the moment being a simple poll thread on the forum. He's talking to admin (at some point) about where we should do so - but does anyone have an problem with doing it that way or any other ideas.
<Vantrax> that would be my idea
<nhandler> If we are creating an LP team, we could also put the poll on LP
<cprofitt> I agree we will want some form of feedback...
<Vantrax> have a are of the forum related to questions and feedback on a specific session
<Vantrax> have an area
<forestpixie> nhandler: we were looking at new threads/pols for each session that runs
<nhandler> Or we could also put feedback on the wiki below the IRC logs
<cprofitt> I think we need to be cautious what we ask though... and how the information is processed
<JoshuaRL> cprofitt: theres whole degrees in that sentence
<forestpixie> +1 - just  a simple 1-5 poll and then if people wish to post in thread they can
<cprofitt> JoshuaRL, yes there are
<Vantrax> in principle I agree with the idea forestpixie but it will need to be dug into a bit
<pleia2> nhandler: I like that, or failing that we use one of these other ideas and then link to the logs page so it's all accessible from one spot at least
<cprofitt> forestpixie, I think we can work on the content (questions) at a later time...
<pleia2> some people have trouble with editing wikis
<forestpixie> pleia2: +1
<nhandler> Because in my opinion, the comments are much more valuable than the actual rating
<JoshuaRL> cprofitt: i have a friend thats a marketing major, i could ask him for suggestions
<cprofitt> We could even use forums for it if we wanted a more simple place for editing
<forestpixie> sounds good JoshuaRL
<cprofitt> that would expose the courses in another place as well
<forestpixie> that is bodhi's thought cprofitt
<cprofitt> JoshuaRL, it is less marketing...
<cprofitt> and more getting useful constructive information
<JoshuaRL> cprofitt: but it IS marketing, from the feedback idea.  thats a big part of marketing.
<cprofitt> no axe grinding, etc
<cprofitt> any other ideas that anyone else has?
 * cprofitt motions to close the meeting
<forestpixie> above all it needs to be simple or people won't bother
<Vantrax> So the project info we discussed here will be written up then mailed out and I will post it to planet
<tim_sharitt> +1 cprofitt
<nhandler> Vantrax: Are the logs/minutes going to be on the wiki as well?
<forestpixie> I'll put the log on the FG wiki in a minute
<cprofitt> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:18.
<Vantrax> not too bad
<JoshuaRL> thanks Vantrax cprofitt pleia2
<Vantrax> ran faster than I thought:P
<forestpixie> thanks all
<nhandler> forestpixie: You can take the logs from MootBot
<cprofitt> thanks for coming everyone!!!
<cprofitt> I appreciated it.
<forestpixie> nhandler: how
<pleia2> thanks guys :)
<cprofitt> I am gathering the mootbot logs now
<cprofitt> and will put them on our meeting page
<nhandler> :)
<Vantrax> thanks for comining people
<forestpixie> cool saves me then cprofitt
<Vantrax> ill have an email out with the info and an action plan later in the week
<cprofitt> anyone know how long Mootbot takes to update the page with the logs?
<SiDi> our page has been updated quite fast
<SiDi> did you #endmeeting ?
<SiDi> (yes, you did, sorry :p)
<SiDi> cprofitt, you might want to ask knome if there's anything particular to do
<cprofitt> knome, how do I get the logs from my meeting?
<cprofitt> thanks SiDi
<SiDi> cprofitt, you're welcome
<cprofitt> SiDi, I am beginning to think it did not make the logs...
<cprofitt> the last line was - MootBot> Logs available at http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/
<cprofitt> and that does not look like the result they show on the wiki
<SiDi> Erm..
<SiDi> i never used that bot honnestly
<SiDi> i hope this isnt somethinng you forgot to do before the meeting :/
<cprofitt> have you used a different one?
<cprofitt> I hope not as well...
<cprofitt> nothing appears to be listed on the wiki
<SiDi> nope. i just know that knome used it and we have our logs ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-12
<SiDi> Good night everyone
 * JoshuaRL is away: Gone away for now
<DasEi> did anyone log yesterday's session ?
<jpds> DasEi: The education thing one?
<DasEi> jpds: there was a meeting sat 0.00 my inbox said,  the one I'm asking about
<jpds> You might be able to find a log at irclogs.ubuntu.com
<DasEi> it takes few days mostly
<DasEi> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/04/10/%23ubuntu-meeting.txt,  nice, there already jpds
<jpds> The logs are updated on the hour.
<vikashkoushik> Hi guys
<vikashkoushik> What is PPA in Launch Pad?
<Hobbsee> vikashkoushik: try #launchpad
<vikashkoushik> ok
<vikashkoushik> Thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-12
<huats> hello everyone
<huats> showard, cyphermox hello
<cyphermox> huats, hi!
<showard> hello!
<huats> sorry I was a bit away from my computer :)
<huats> RoAkSoAx is missing
<huats> we might wait for him a bit..
<cyphermox> fyi, I'm there, but might answer slow.
<RoAkSoAx> huats: am I that late ?
<RainCT> RoAkSoAx: They are waiting for you :)
<huats> RoAkSoAx, we were waiting for you :)
<huats> great
<huats> thanks RainCT :)
<huats> RoAkSoAx, , cyphermox and showard
<huats> it will be only the 4 of us
<czajkowski> I really need to unhighlight cypher
<cyphermox> czajkowski, muahaha ;)
<RoAkSoAx> RainCT: :)
<RoAkSoAx> huats: i'm really sorry for the delay but something came up
<huats> RoAkSoAx, no pb
<huats> sorry I clicked on the wrong window :)
<huats> so
<huats> we are here to talk about the mentoring reception
<huats> RoAkSoAx, showard, cyphermox are you here ?
<huats> :)
<RoAkSoAx> i am
<showard> yes
<cyphermox> yup
<huats> ok great
<huats> I would have liked that dholbach joined us
<huats> but I should have warned him earlier :)
<dholbach> I'll be in a call in 17m
<huats> ok then let's start :)
<dholbach> I'm not sure I can very actively contribute to the discussion
<huats> dholbach, nope but you are at the start of the mentoring so you are aways welcome :)
<dholbach> :)
<huats> so the idea is o renew the mentoring program, including the reception that is clearly failing its purpose righ now...
<huats> someother have shown a real interest in that, which great
<huats> since I do beleive that this task could be really pleasant to do if it is shared amongst many people
<cyphermox> most likely
<huats> As I have said in my email
<huats> we have one current workflow that need to be changed
<huats> and one of the idea that I share with Daniel is the need of gathering the efforts of the developpers in the teaching aspect of the mentoring
<huats> it is a bit useless that 10 developpers spends each 1h to explain the same thing to 10 mentees
<huats> and this is something that we currently fail to do
<huats> since every mentor/mentee couple is free to learn as they want
<huats> but from my point of view, the mentoring steps is not the first thing that needs a revamp
<huats> have you all looked at the files in bzr that we use to track the mentors/mentees ?
<RoAkSoAx> so what you are saying is that we need to standarize the learning process?
<huats> RoAkSoAx, in a second time yes I think
<huats> (but once again it is just my opinion)
<huats> (and to be able to do that, it will require some lessons I think, so to recreate a bit the classrooms that existed in the past and to 'ask' mentors to attends these)
<RoAkSoAx> huats: well it is my opinion as well and is an Idea that i talked about before. However, they always told me "some might not want to follow it, becuase they might just want to learn A,B,C, instead of A,B,C,D,E"
<showard> but for now you think just reworking the reception part
<huats> showard, I think we should start working on the reception part, which means to create a new workflow
<huats> and then to start to setup these lessons
<showard> ah ok
<huats> currently the workflow is quite simple : there is a private mailing list
<huats> where mentees send email requests
<huats> and since I don't really have the time to process them, are just archived
<huats> (yes I have keep a record of every request)
<showard> (how frequent are the requests?)
<huats> let's say 3 every months at the moment
<huats> but we are not very active clearly
<huats> so if we are doing a good team work
<huats> we should be able to create a little buzz
<huats> and thus to attract new contribtors
<ScottK> If the discussions are on #ubuntu-motu that will both create some buzz and reduce the need for repetition.
<huats> ScottK, I agree that ubuntu-motu should be a part of the new process
<huats> :)
<huats> when we were answering the request
<huats> after the reception of the email we were starting to find a good mentors that matches the area of interest of the future mentee
<huats> and that was really a long process
<huats> a process that is clearly not seen by the mentee
<huats> this is something where we should work on
<huats> in my idea we should have a separate file for each mentee
<huats> tracking the actions we are doing on his application
<huats> to let them know that we are not forgetting them
<huats> the thing is that we cannot put every detail of an application in a public file since we might have some private date
<RoAkSoAx> correct:
<huats> data
<RoAkSoAx> ok, so  first step is to improve communication with mentee
<showard> How knowledgeable are the applicants (are they contributing-developer level, or pretty much new to packaging? This will help me understand how much pairing and specialization needs to be done at first)
<showard> The current system has lots of work finding the mentor/mentoree pair - but if we move to a more "classroom" type model, could we do it in two waves...
<huats> showard, both kinds
<huats> RoAkSoAx, I agree
<showard> rather than matching a specific mentor right away, how about finding "general" mentors at first, then when they graduate from that (i.e. reach contributing-developer) they can work with a team (desktop, kubuntu, MOTU, etc.) for more specific training?
<showard> or is that too much work for reception and the mentors
<huats> showard, from my point of view ideally it would still be a pair (mentor/mentee) with the mentee that would have lessons to attends
<huats> showard, actually it is a good idea I think
<huats> it gives time for the mentee to know on what he decides to specialize (if he wanted to)
<RoAkSoAx> huats: but doing so that in those general lessons the mentee will need to learn pretty much everything relaeted to packaging
<RoAkSoAx> i do think that we can have some general lessons, such as where to start,how to work with packages (ie. regular tools or bzr), to just give them a head start of what they are doing
<huats> RoAkSoAx, that would help to ask mentees to attend lessons
<cyphermox> RoAkSoAx, yup, that sounds like a good idea
<RoAkSoAx> and the, match them with the mentors to follow a determined number of learning items
<cyphermox> then onto more specific stuff like, how it is different if you're dealing with desktop apps vs. server for example?
<RoAkSoAx> the general lessons would allow us to look for a metor to match the mentee with
<showard> I feel like a lot more people in MOTU would be comfortable doing this "general" training as well, especially if lessons are laid out
<showard> doing = being a mentoee
<showard> *mentor
<RoAkSoAx> the general lessons should give them the knowledge of how to work with the available tools that they will use during the learning process with their mentors
<RoAkSoAx> so that for example, a mentor won't have to explain him what debuild -S -sa does
<persia> Isn't that handled by the Packaging Training sessions?
<showard> for general lessons, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/DeveloperTopics
<showard> (disregard my link, it wasn't what I thought it was)
<showard> persia's right, perhaps motu-reception should direct people to Packaging Training sessions as that first phase of training
<persia> And maybe also encourage mentors to regurlarly present there.
<showard> that's a good place for people to self assemble into ment{or,ee} pairs
<huats_> sorry
<huats_> my computer just froze :(
<huats_> thanks lucid :)
<huats_> (I am using another one waiting for the other to boot)
<huats_> anyone said anything <,
<huats_> ?
<huats_> (I mean while I was away)
<showard> persia suggested leveraging the existing packaging training sessions as the "general" training, but we would need to have a monthly "general packaging" session for the new people
<showard> and encourage mentees to attend
<persia> And encourage mentors to rotate giving that session: if it's the same person all the time they will get annoyed.
<BlackZ> hi
<BlackZ> so, has the meeting end?
<huats_> persia, that is really a good idea persia ! thanks emmet
<persia> huats_: You might remember an email about that from 18 months ago :)
 * persia completely failed to follow-up on that, and apologises
<cyphermox> what about making sure the topics are covered in MOTU videos? right now I see ~three new mentees per month as few people for a monthly class?
<huats_> persia, don't worry, I am blameful too ...
<RoAkSoAx> that's indeed a good idea, and that lesson should be *required* for the mentee to attend to be able to start they learning process with the mentor
<huats_> cyphermox, I think it will drag a lot more if with encourage people to talk about it
<huats_> I really liked the motu journal that effraie was writing
<huats_> it is something that could be encouraged
<persia> RoAkSoAx: No way to enforce attendance, but it can be recommended, and guidance can be given to mentors that if a mentee doesn't have basic concepts down, they should attend class.
<huats_> I will second persia, I am not very confortable to "enforce" attendance
<RoAkSoAx> persia: correct! if no packaging knowledge at all, mentee *should* attend before starting work with mentor,so that mentor wont have to explain the mentee all those things. If the mentee already has packaging knowledge it is ok for him not to attend
<huats_> and I think a mentor should be able to say to a mentee (and to us) : please attend the next session
<ScottK> Considering the entire mentorship program is optional, I think the notion of enforcing anything is odd at best.
<persia> And I'd hope a good mentor spends time helping the mentee use other resources (videos, classes, etc.)
<persia> I remember a proposal some time in the past that mentors should never sponsor mentees stuff as a way to encourage this sort of sharing.
<huats_> persia, it is something to write down
<huats_> I think
<ScottK> o/
<ScottK> IIRC I proposed that.
<showard> [I may have to go soon]  agree regarding the sponsoring proposal
<ScottK> To get more community involvement.
<RoAkSoAx> +1
<persia> ScottK: I believe it was you.
<huats_> ok that is something that should be reminded to mentors
<huats_> I would like that we spend a few minutes on the way of dealing with applications
<persia> But I'm not sure it's best as a blanket rule: When I was a mentor, I sponsored some stuff, and refused to sponsor others, depending on the goal for the individual work to be done.
<huats_> since clearly the current workflow is not a good one
<huats_> RoAkSoAx, showard, cyphermox I will add you to the private mailing list of the reception for the moment
<huats_> but we need to change to way we deal with applications
<huats_> to give a clear view to the applicants of how we are dealing with it
<cyphermox> huats_, something similar to the debian NM reception?
<cyphermox> (I mean, the website)
<huats_> actually I have never looked at it
<cyphermox> https://nm.debian.org/
<showard> I think it could be simpler than the nm process, but the website is very clear as to the steps and what is happening
<persia> There's been previous requests by the TB to avoid the NM process, but don't let that bar sharing tools.
<showard> the DM process is interesting, you file a bug report against a dummy package with your application (and can keep it private) and the team then can assign mentors, status of the "bug", and follow up within the bug report
<showard> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=debian-maintainers;dist=unstable
<huats> actually such a website would be great for sure
<huats>  but I feel it will be quite long to setup
<huats>  ...
<showard> the DM process is different than NM
<huats> showard, I was thinking of exploring the usage of private bugs indeed
<huats> (in LP)
<showard> yes, doing it in LP so each applicant is its own bug
<huats> can we keep it private for a team + 1 person ?
<RoAkSoAx> huats: showard +1
<showard> gotta go
<persia> huats: Not easily.  LP has such a feature, but it's a commercial offering, as I understand it.
<huats> persia, ok
<huats> showard, we'll send you the "minutes" of the discussion
<showard> thank you!
<persia> huats: I think it's https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/208 if you want to investigate (and compare cost vs. setting up other resources)
<huats> persia, thanks I'll have a look
<RoAkSoAx> huats: so what else we need to discuss?
<huats> persia, on the other side I do beleive that it is not a proprietary goal... since it is for the menroting reception for MOTU....
<huats> I do beleive (I might be wrong) that we might have a little help from canonical :)
<persia> huats: Ask in #launchpad, but I think bug privacy is only available for commercial stuff, but it may be that you can get a discount :)
<huats> :)
<huats> persia, I will
 * persia really doesn't know any details: just reads lots of IRC traffic
<huats> RoAkSoAx, I think it pretty done
<huats> RoAkSoAx, I'll send an email that sumarize that
<huats> and we'll have another meeting to write things dows
<huats> down
<RoAkSoAx> huats: ok then. I do feel we should have a few more meetings though, to define stuff. However, before doing so, we need to setup something like talking items for each meeting
<huats> RoAkSoAx, indeed
<RoAkSoAx> huats: so wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Meetings?
<huats> RoAkSoAx, why not
<huats> I'll let you  initialize that :)
<RoAkSoAx> huats: ok:)
<RoAkSoAx> huats: ok them. meeting over I guess. For next meeting, same time/place?
<huats> RoAkSoAx, yep, but let's do a doodle with the rest of the new team
<huats> :)
<RoAkSoAx> huats: ok. When you send the email with the minutes, could you please do that?
 * RoAkSoAx is gone
<huats> sure
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-13
<lifeless> persia: do we have a meeting tonight?
 * persia double-checks but thinks so
<persia> We're scheduled for one.
<elky> Now or plus an hour?
<persia> Now.
<elky> Awesome.
<persia> And didn't time there change minus?
<elky> persia, i'm not sure we've successfully had one since the UK changed, but correct me if i'm wrong
<persia> You may be right.
<persia> That said, since none of us are in the UK, I think we oughtn't care.
<elky> I'm just all thrown out with times as per the Humans Changing Crap thing that we do to make our own lives harder
 * persia wonders if some nice soul has put up a DST map
<persia> Yes!  We need to get more red on http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/DaylightSaving-World-Subdivisions.png/370px-DaylightSaving-World-Subdivisions.png
<persia> (these are all the places that have sensibly stopped using DST)
<elky> Ok, we're one short of quorum
<persia> Looking at our area, it seems EDT, CDT, NZST, and Chatham Island Time are the remaining offenders.
<ajmitch> we're innocent here...
<persia> Those of you living there now or expecting to live there soon should complain to your governments and get them to stop the madness.
<persia> ajmitch: Sorry.  The wikipedia map appears to be out of date.
 * ajmitch storms parliament to redress this situation
<persia> Wait.  Are you sure there's no NZDT or CHADT anymore?
<ajmitch> there is, but it's ended for the next few months
<persia> Oh, because of winter?
<ajmitch> yes
<persia> A perfect opportunity to make sure it never returns :)
<ajmitch> it sounds like you don't like the idea of it :)
<persia> Not really.  I like sun in the morning :)
 * ajmitch wonders where the stray board members are
<persia> Two of them seem to be detached, and the other is "Away"
<persia> Oh, and the extra bonus folk never come anyway, so I don't even bother looking for them anymore.
<ajmitch> that seems problematic
<persia> Yeah, well.  We get to have elections soon.
<ajmitch> wonderful
<ajmitch> I'm not putting my name forward :)
<persia> Which means that we have a decent chance of not having folks who don't participate on the board.
<persia> Ae you sure?  Do you have something better to do at midnight on Tuesday nights?
<ajmitch> it's only about 10PM here at the moment
<ajmitch> but I couldn't guarantee availability, so I wouldn't want to contribute to your quorum problems
<persia> I was thinking of end-of-meeting in the Summer, but yeah.
<persia> om26er: Many apologies, but I believe we're going to fail to reach quorum this evening.
<persia> (unless there's some kind soul from another board that wants to sit in)
 * elky glances at popey
<ajmitch> persia: I'm frequently up until past midnight anyway
 * ajmitch is just filling in time finding some nasty problems on that rc bugs list
 * ajmitch has seen themuso around this evening, isn't he on the board?
<persia> Yes.
<elky> he appears to currently be set /away
<persia> Right.
<popey> hmm?
<elky> quorumfiller, but I'm not sure om26er is responsive anyway
 * om26er is
<elky> ooh, he is
<popey> happy to
<elky> lifeless: persia, still there?
<elky> :(
<elky> om26er, how about you introduce yourself and your contributions now, and if they reappear they can respond/query etc
<om26er> My name is omer akram, I live in pakistan, I have been triaging bugs for ubuntu for a while
<om26er> I work on empathy, gwibber and all indicators
<om26er> send most of the empathy bugs upstream myself
<om26er> I started with ubuntu-moblin-remix but that turned out to be a dead project then slowly moved to #ubuntu and then starting triaging
<om26er> I am not  a programmer, I only triage bug for ubuntu
<om26er> I adopted empathy and gwibber in 'adopt-a-packge'
<popey> some nice testimonials there
<persia> om26er: You've come before us previously.  What changed this time, or what brought you back?
<om26er> persia, I was asked to come back with testimonials from the people I work with so this time I came with those
<persia> Makes perfect sense, and matches my memory of your application :)
 * persia is well-familiar with om26er, and has no further questions.
<popey> om26er: what's your plan for MOTU?
<popey> or rather "what's your plan for joining MOTU and perhaps becoming one"
<om26er> popey, I am learning packaging, I thought packagers were also in MOTU?
<om26er> I can do basic but still not perfect
<persia> MOTU is but one of many development teams.
<elky> Don't worry, they'll give you plenty of practice
<om26er> I asked kamusin to cheer for me but he had a different time
<popey> i have no more questions
<om26er> Also I work very closely with upstream developers about their projects, often ask them at their IRC channels
<persia> elky: lifeless: ?
<elky> lifeless: are you still there?
<elky> i have no questions
<BUGabundo_remote> morning. I'm in favor of om26er aplication
<om26er> thanks BUGabundo_remote
<popey> ready to vote?
<elky> all but lifeless, he can catch up later unless we can find another RMB member somewhere
<popey> well, I'm about to leave for lunch, so if you need it my vote is +1 :)
<popey> based on excellent feedback and a clear contribution to a core set of apps.
<elky> +1 from me too
<persia> +1 from me too: great job on cleaning up the wiki page and making your contributions clear.
<persia> lifeless: So, say something :)
<persia> lifeless, in case you have tab-completion-specific highlighting enabled.
<persia> OK.  Timeout.
<persia> lifeless, if you return, please vote and do minutes/announcements/team adds if you vote in favour.
<persia> om26er: Sorry about that.  We'll get you sorted (either approved or deferred with clear comments) by the next meeting.
 * vish cheers for om26er  :)
<Vantrax> grats om26er
<lifeless> hi
<lifeless> back
<lifeless> clearly I wandered off at precisely the wrong time
<elky> Cool, you can still sneak in with a vote
<lifeless> +1
<lifeless> persia: ^
<persia> Excellent.  Now go process the successful application :)
<lifeless> persia: however I'm going to beg off doing the follow up
<persia> om26er: Congratulations!
<lifeless> as I've got a head cold
<lifeless> and am -> bed right now
<om26er> yeah
<vish> om26er: congratulations!
<elky> om26er, yaaaaaaaaay!
<persia> lifeless: It's particularly annoying that you have a good excuse.
<om26er> vish, thanks alot
<persia> elky: Are you up for a while, or do you want me to do it?
<elky> lifeless, get well :)
<Damascene> om26er, hope that make you even better contributor :)
<lifeless> persia: they have me on two antibiotics simultaneously, for the fun of it or something.
<lifeless> gnight y'all
<persia> gnight
<om26er> persia, thanks
<vish> Damascene: om26er has certainly been doing a *lot* of triaging , and certainly "addicted to Ubuntu" :)
<elky> persia, if you fight with launchpad, i'll do the mail
<Damascene> he was helping me with empathy bug report. and I knew he was very helpful
<persia> Sure.
<persia> elky: Done.
 * om26er notes he got another testimonial on the wiki page :-)
<elky> om26er, pfft, like you need it now
 * ziroday lets out the balloons for om26er 
<ziroday> even if I
<ziroday> even if I'm a bit late to the parade
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100413
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100413
<asac> hi
<NCommander> hi
<ian_brasil> hey
<JamieBennett> moo
<asac> JamieBennett: ogra: StevenK: dyfet: GrueMaster: persia: ping
<asac> :)
<ogra> mooo
<asac> i surely forgot someone
<persia> You forgot *heaps* of folk
<ogra> you forgot plars
 * GrueMaster drags a large coffee mug into the room.
<persia> and ian_brasil
<persia> and rbelem
<JamieBennett> and dmart :)
<NCommander> [topic] Action Items from April 6th, 2010
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Items from April 6th, 2010
<dmart> hi
<JamieBennett> ;)
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster and plars to continue to keep working with crimsun on ARM PulseAudi
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster and plars to continue to keep working with crimsun on ARM PulseAudi
<GrueMaster> Fixed.
<JamieBennett> \o/
<plars> hi
<NCommander> [topic] asac to upload libplist with -marm
<MootBot> New Topic:  asac to upload libplist with -marm
<GrueMaster> It turned out to be libspeex.  I had thought the patch from NCommander had made it into the build, but upon digging deeper, I found it hadn't.
<asac> done
<asac> actually wasnt needed
<plars> good work NCommander and GrueMaster on that bug btw
<asac> it worked after replacing the builders with good hardware
<asac> ack ... thanks NCommander and GrueMaster
<NCommander> [topic] asac and dmart to get firefox rendering issue upstreamed
<MootBot> New Topic:  asac and dmart to get firefox rendering issue upstreamed
<GrueMaster> No applause please, just buy us beer.  :P
<asac> we upstreamed, but have no input so far
<asac> will do a debugging session with roc as a last resort
<NCommander> [topic] ericm, plars, NCommander to investigate uboot-mkimage breakage and offline dove installation
<MootBot> New Topic:  ericm, plars, NCommander to investigate uboot-mkimage breakage and offline dove installation
<dmart> ok
<NCommander> no progress from me, plars, anything for you?
<plars> no
<ogra> whats broken ?
<NCommander> c/o
<ogra> uboot-mkimage is totally generic
<NCommander> ogra: offline installation
<NCommander> ogra: but its unconfirmed if its broken
<plars> right, we need to check that first
<ogra> but why is uboot-mkimage involved here ?
<ogra> the package only contains a single file
<dmart> Does someone have a bug link?
<ogra> (the mkimage binary)
<NCommander> ogra: its installed by flash-kernel-installer into the squashfs
<NCommander> long story
<NCommander> on why its like that
 * ogra could imagine flash-kernel being broken but still doesnt get why uboot-mkimage is at fault
<NCommander> ogra: because if it isn't on the CD, apt-get will try to download it from the wbe and cause offline installation to fail
<ogra> well, then its either a seed or a dependency issue :)
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander and plars to work together to reinitialize plars's NAND flash on his X0
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander and plars to work together to reinitialize plars's NAND flash on his X0
<plars> we didn't get to that this week
<NCommander> no progress
<plars> but it wasn't urgent at all
<persia> Which version of mtd-utils were you using?
<plars> and I know NCommander has been pretty swamped :)
<NCommander> no ericm so skipping his action item
<NCommander> persia: his board been throwing NAND errors in the kernel log, I was going ot have him reset it in u-boot
<persia> Oh.  That can be done from the OS as well.
<persia> plars: Catch me later in the week if NCommander is busy, and I'll see if I can help.
<plars> ok
<NCommander> persia: there is some uniqueness on how NAND is done on Marvell which means I think it should be done in flash
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> in u-boot
<persia> OK.
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to coordinate with lamont on determining if OOo build failure is HW specific
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to coordinate with lamont on determining if OOo build failure is HW specific
<NCommander> Happened, Didn't Help :-/
<NCommander> [topic] persia and NCommander to test and improve server image experience
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia and NCommander to test and improve server image experience
<NCommander> c/o unfortnately
<persia> No point.
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<persia> We'll be in deep freeze by the next meeting.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<NCommander> This is it folks
<JamieBennett> doesn't look too bad
<NCommander> nope
<NCommander> Skipping kernel status since no ericm or coolney
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> wait
<ogra> hmm
<NCommander> and no amitk
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<asac> i think workitems wise we are well set
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<ogra> i would have liked an update about the regulator issues oon imx51
<asac> ogra: do we have the patch yet?
<ogra> asac, since a week or so
<asac> e.g. the missing piece?
<plars> Beta 2 iso testing completed
<asac> ok
<ogra> the new BSP went into the public GIT
<asac> ogra: as a SRU?
<ogra> and is supposed to have the fix
<plars> I'll update the pairwise stuff
<plars> probably today
<ogra> the beagle kernel looks quite sane now at least for the C4
<GrueMaster> I'm finding a lot of bugs testing various apps.    ~11 this last week.
<plars> also something we need to get on this week is upgrade testing
<plars> I plan to do upgrade testing on at least imx51 this week
<asac> we dont have hardy ;) ... so just karmic-lucid upgrades i guess
<plars> right
<plars> just karmic-lucid
<asac> do we acutally support the hardware we supported in karmic still?
<plars> yay
<ogra> and we're not an LTS :)
<plars> ogra: that too :)
<NCommander> heh
<ogra> asac, on babbage we did support b3
<asac> i mean ... afaik karmic was armv6 ... now we are armv7. do we need to do something about that?
<ogra> not on dove though
<asac> e.g. preventing upgrades?
<ogra> there is code i added to u-m
<NCommander> asac: already have a sanity check in there as far as I know
<asac> ok
<ogra> that might need an enhancement
<NCommander> ogra: ah, i was wondering who added that, thanks
<asac> NCommander: what does that santiy check do?
<asac> i guess we need to tweak/adjust that for karmic-lucid?
<NCommander> asac: checks for ARMv{6|7} on upgrade from jaunty-> karmic -> lucid
<ogra> asac, checking for ARMv5 in cpuinfo
<NCommander> Don't remember if it was updated for ARMv7/Thumb2
<ogra> and blocks if you are v5
<asac> so is that just working right now? i guess it needs some love?
<asac> who can take that actiuon?
<ogra> it was only for nslu2 installs
 * NCommander can't
 * ogra would love to but wont have time
<asac> who added that ?
<ogra> me
<asac> where is that check implemented?
<ogra> update-manager
<NCommander> asac: UpdateManagerQuirks
<ogra> right
<asac> ok ...
<ogra> just look for ARM
<asac> dyfet: are you there?
<ogra> its the only code adding that
<asac> dyfet: could you take the action to check if the update-manager tweaks are fine?
<NCommander> [action] dyfet to check update-manager sanity checks for ARM upgrades
<mvo> asac: if you change strings now people will get unhappy â¦
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dyfet to check update-manager sanity checks for ARM upgrades
<asac> mvo: hmm
<mvo> but the check is definitely there
<asac> mvo: what strings?
<ogra> mvo, we'll only change the check
<NCommander> mvo: asac we can probably use the same error message
<asac> yeah
<asac> hopefully
<ogra> its babbles about v5 though
<mvo> ok, iirc it mentions the arm version
<asac> what does the current string read?
<NCommander> anynthing else on QA?
<plars> that's it from me
<asac> thanks
<ogra> tomorrows beagle images should be testable, please test
<plars> yes!
<asac> GrueMaster: any bugs you want to discuss that came out of your tests?
<ogra> with more focus on d-i than on live
<asac> or are those "general/low prio" bugs that dont need special attention?
<ogra> live is very slow and not a fun thing to install
<GrueMaster> Like I mentioned earlier, I found 11 new bugs this last week.
<plars> and many thanks to ogra for plowing forward on the TI stuff and finding new things before they were really testable in the images
<ogra> plars, i'm not done yet
<GrueMaster> Yesterday, I found a critical bug with f-spot.
<plars> ogra: heh, no doubt :)
<ogra> and many thanks to plars for covering me while i was at a customer :)
<plars> GrueMaster: are these all looking to be arm specific?
<GrueMaster> Yes
<ogra> f-spot ?
<ogra> what broke ?
<plars> GrueMaster: I have seen the f-spot one, but I don't think I've noticed subscriptions on the others, do you have a list?
<GrueMaster> Bug 561874
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 561874 in f-spot "NULL Reference exception in F-Spot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/561874
<GrueMaster> I'm working on a list.
<asac> GrueMaster: ok thanks.
 * ogra hasnt seen any of them in his bugmail
<asac> [ACTION] gruemaster to assemble list of bugs that might need attention still ;)a
<GrueMaster> I also sent a list early last week to ogra and asac of bugs that needed attention.
<asac> GrueMaster: right. that was great
<ogra> GrueMaster, are they all subscribed to ubuntu-armel ?
<asac> just thought if there is anything new/else ;)
<GrueMaster> I'm working on making sure they are subscribed.
 * ogra wonders why they didnt end up in his bugmail folder
<ogra> ah
<ogra> ok
<GrueMaster> asac: There are a lot of new bugs.  Will email later today.
<asac> GrueMaster: ok. maybe we can send that list to ubuntu-mobile?
<asac> l.u.c?
<asac> i can take a quick look before sending there if you want me to filter
<asac> moving on?
<NCommander> [topic] #
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<NCommander> ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<NCommander> uh
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<asac> hehe
<JamieBennett> webservice-office-zoho is in the images and seems to work (apart from a last minute hiccup late yesterday that is now fixed), webmail integration has had its MIR approved ready for inclusion. Not much else to report.
<ogra> the .desktop file should really get a StartupNotify=Ture
<ogra> *True
<JamieBennett> ogra: I can do that today if we really need it
<ogra> its a bit irritating that you dont get any notification
<ogra> i just get dumped back to the favorites page
<ogra> at least on beagle
<asac> desktop-webmail is in archive and will get on image tomorrow ;)
<ogra> asac, is there any progress on the scrollbar issue ?
<JamieBennett> ogra: OK, I'll add that and kick asac to reupload it later :)
<asac> with that we are fine and happy
<ogra> it shows up quite heavily in the weboffice stuff
<asac> ogra: i commented that above, didnt i?
 * ogra missed it 
<asac> ogra: so the stuff is upstreamed. but not much traction
<ogra> meh
<asac> ogra: i will go and debug this with "roc" ... who offered
<asac> his help
<ogra> ah, that was that, yeah, i saw that passing by :)
<ogra> sorry for not paying enough attention
<asac> roc is the layout superguru on mozilla ;)
 * ogra trioes to do 7 things at once
<asac> hehe
<asac> no problem
<asac> so yeah. i really hope i get a lead on that
<asac> i see that its annoying
<ogra> especially if we promote weboffice ... its quite prominent in the docs
<asac> ok
<asac> *nods*
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<NCommander> OOo is broken again, I think we just need to upload -marm and hope for the  best
<NCommander> theres not enough time to properly test any fix before final freeze
<ogra> what happened to gphoto ?
<ogra> i saw it vanished from the list, did someone actually fix it ?
<NCommander> ogra: libgphoto?
<persia> DIdn't didrocks say it wasn't in shape for lucid?
<NCommander> I hit retry onit, but didn't follow up on it
<ogra> NCommander, ah
<ogra> so i probably looked when it was building
<ogra> its timing out
<asac> i gave back gphoto
<asac> i dont think it succeeded
<ogra> i didnt find any example code to get around it, else i would have fixed it yesterday
<asac> ogra: whats the problem?
<ogra> asac, iot needs some pinger mechanism to keep the shell active
<ogra> the buildd times out if there is no output for 150min
<asac> ogra: hmm. you say the logg pipe times out?
<asac> interesting
<asac> and 150min is normal here?
<NCommander> ogra: that needs lamont to change the sbuild time out
<asac> that feels too long even on arm ;)
<ogra> i know we have other packages that added something to debian/rules to generate some noise every 60min
<NCommander> asac: 150m is default
<NCommander> ogra: it builds locally?
<persia> We havea  script that keeps builds active, but it can mean builds running for weeks if they really hang.
<asac> well. i mean: a package that doesnt spit out stuff for 150min is not broken? feels like there is a bug
<ogra> NCommander, no, that should be fixed in the package and we have other packages that use a hack
<ogra> asac, no, there are plenty packages that build -dbg packages with lzma which is very slow on arm
<NCommander> ogra: having the script make noise is a bad idea
<NCommander> ogra: too easy to hang in inifinite loop
<NCommander> we had that issue wtih sparc a lot
<ogra> NCommander, thats what others have done
<NCommander> the right method is to extend the delay
<ogra> and what we promoted during karmic iirc
<NCommander> ogra: thats what you done, I've had lamont fix the ones I found
<ogra> i havent done anything
<ogra> NCommander, can you take care then for gphoto ?
<NCommander> ogra: the right solution is to extend the timeout in the prename place for it in the build system, not hack up makefiles and deviate from debian
<NCommander> ogra: if I have time OOo is my priority
<ogra> NCommander, well, its a give-.back and can happen after final freeze
<NCommander> fair enough
<NCommander> I'll look at it when I'm done with OOo
<ogra> you just seem to know a proper solution :)
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)
<ogra> did you talk to the likewise guys ?
<ogra> so they apply the patch properly ?
<NCommander> ogra: no, I haven't finished refixing the patch inbetween OOo builds
<ogra> hmm, gphoto didnt come back omn the ftbfs page yet
<ogra> when did you give it back ?
<ogra> ah, its pending
<NCommander> ogra: I don't remember if I did
<asac> i gave it back iirc
<ogra> someone said he did ... asac
<asac> but more than a day ago
<asac> but no build score boost powers ;)
<ogra> yeah, its waiting for free buildd time
<ogra> the builders are pretty stuck with long term packages atm
<persia> Given the size of the queue, it may be best to wait a day or so to let it settle.
<ogra> 207 packages
<ogra> and still a ton of haskell building :/
<NCommander> uvh
<NCommander> *ugh
<ogra> and openjdk
<persia> And more haskell to go once those build.
<NCommander> just ping me if we need rescores
<ogra> and kdelibs
<ogra> we need more builders
<NCommander> On image status, where are we?
<ogra> its an impact of having lost two
<NCommander> ogra: we need a lot of things :-/
<ogra> we only have 6 instead of 8
<asac> whats the problem with the builders?
<persia> asac: 20 hours behind.
<asac> also   3335557  [building]  Building armel build of haskell-json 0.4.3-3 in ubuntu lucid RELEASE
<asac> is DEAD
<ogra> asac, no idea, we need to ask lamont ... when he replaced machines itz seems he only replaced 6 but not 8
<asac> its building since 6 days
<asac> hanging at Setting up ghc6-doc (6.12.1-12) ...
<asac> i think that machine just hard crashed
<asac> so i assume we only have 4
<asac> builders --- if we are happy
<NCommander> asac: LP will time it out if it did after buildd-queue fails to talk to it
<asac> NCommander: not in this case it seems
<NCommander> asac: machine must not be completley dead
<ogra> it should have timed out after 150min ... as discussed above :)
<asac> yes thats what i think
<asac> ok /me goes #is
<JamieBennett> someone needs to take an action to talk to lamont about the builder situation
<ogra> ++
<NCommander> ogra: persia image status?
<ogra> NCommander, fine
<NCommander> good
<dmart> I guess we need to push that --- running out of builders between freeze and release is a risk
<ogra> begale will be better tomorrow but not yet perfect
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<ogra> the others are ok as usual
<ian_brasil> speaking earleir of kdelibs, we are participating in a discussion with upstream to provide some KDE_PLATFORM_PROFILEs that can enable fine grained switches to change things during the kdelibs build. Based on this patch http://paste.ubuntu.com/413636/
<ian_brasil> comments welcome
<ogra> dmart, we'll care for it ...
<dmart> sure
<plars> did we miss kernel status updates?
<JamieBennett> not kernel guys here
<persia> plars: No kernel folk showed up.
<plars> oh, I see
<ogra> ian_brasil, so will that mean that we get three packages instead of one ?
<rbelem> ian_brasil, we have some other patches to to the build system
<ogra> seems to me that we want all thee flavours in the archive for different tasks
<ogra> which scares me since that means three build runs
<ogra> tripling the build time
<persia> ian_brasil: I'm a little worried about the implications of that in terms of way in which we compile stuff.  I'm a fan of finer-grained pacakging, but we only get one compile run that has to serve all of desktop/tablet/mobile (or else we have to run through the compoile three times, which takes three times as long, as annoys the mirror providers).
<rbelem> ogra, yep... i do not agree with that patch
<ian_brasil> rbelem, +1
<rbelem> i will finish the patches and send to the list
<asac> rbelem: ian_brasil: unrelated question: is liquid moving forward for lucid+1? do you need a UDS slot?
<rbelem> that patch is about splitting the kdebase workspace
<rbelem> asac, yep
<rbelem> asac, i think we will need some space for discussions
<persia> rbelem: Do we need a slot just for liquid, or do we need a couple specs in collaboration with the Kubuntu folk (I thought the latter)?
<ian_brasil> asac, rbelem will be there and some talk aboput issues like this would be useful
<asac> rbelem: cool. i will get in touch with you after meeting/later today
<rbelem> persia, collaboration with kubuntu guys is totally needed
<asac> same topic for EVERYONE: if you have specs you want to register feel free to poke me ... we are going to review the whole ubuntu arm spec list at least twice this week, so getting good sessions is appreciated ;
<rbelem> asac, sweet
<persia> rbelem: Let's chat after the meeting and get ideas in order, and then propose some specs to fit with their schedule.
<NCommander> anyone mind if I close out the meeting?
<asac> NCommander: please submit spec proposals ;) ... and yes. i think we are done
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:48.
<rbelem> persia, ok :-)
<asac> thanks!
<cody-somerville> Did I miss the DMB meeting? My calendar shows it in 20 minutes, but the fridge shows it started 40 minutes ago.
<persia> The fridge got confused by DST.
<persia> It's in 20 minutes.
<persia> Are you able to fix that?  I remember you had some magic fridge powers in the past.
<cody-somerville> yup
<cody-somerville> ugh, although it means I'd have to update all events to avoid conflicts.
<cody-somerville> ah, found the solution
<cody-somerville> okay, fixed it for all events :)
<persia> Set timezone to Reykjavik?
<persia> OK folks.  Time to get that drink, run that quick errand, etc.  We'll be starting in about 5 minutes.
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<persia> soren: cody-somerville: geser: nixternal:
<cody-somerville> :)
<persia> (cjwatson may not be able to make it, stgraber won't be able to make it)
<persia> [TOPIC] Action Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Items
<persia> persia contacts Angel Abad about his application
<persia> I sent email, but have no response.  I will seek Angel out more particularly on IRC.
<persia> complete the application of Jonathan Thomas
<persia> Jonathan was confirmed with 4 votes in favour, and 3 votes to defer.  I've sent an anouncement.
<persia> complete the application of Matt Trudel
<persia> This went on too long.  I've tallied the votes, and the result was 2 in favour, 4 to defer, and 1 against.
<cyphermox> I was under the impression that my application was completed a few weeks ago, and that it wasn't passing ;)
 * soren finally managed to win the battle against hotel internet and wanders in
<persia> cyphermox: I couldn't find it in logs.  Sorry if I'm duplicating.  Please apply again later.
<persia> [TOPIC] Administrative matters
<MootBot> New Topic:  Administrative matters
<cyphermox> I however sent an email to DMB about a different matter, but it hasn't made it to the agenda (sorry)
<persia> [TOPIC] Appropriate body to handle requests for new deelopment teams
<MootBot> New Topic:  Appropriate body to handle requests for new deelopment teams
<persia> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-April/000184.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-April/000184.html
<persia> So, mdz suggested that the DMB may have inherited the authority to oversee the creation and administration of new teams.
<persia> Interested folks should follow up on that thread so we can reach consensus with the TB.
<nixternal> hola
<persia> cyphermox: If you don't mind, I'd like to defer your request for an NM team until we have consensus there, but we can certainly hear PPU applications in the meantime, so the effect ought be similar.
<persia> [TOPIC] Interpretation of votes
<MootBot> New Topic:  Interpretation of votes
<cyphermox> yes, absolutely, it makes sense
 * geser waves
<persia> There was some discussion about this in the last meeting.  I wasn't present, and sent some email.  Do we wish to continue the discussion here, or in email?
<cody-somerville> Can we vote to adopt your interpretation? I share it and someone else mentioned they did as well.
<nixternal> +1 on that
<persia> RIght then.
<cjwatson> here
<nixternal> there
<persia> So the ruleset I proposed is as follows:
<persia> 1) Any applicant must surpass a threshold of +4 to be confirmed
<cjwatson> +1 on persia's interp
<persia> 2) Any positive vote adds 1 to the vote count per individual voter
<persia> 3) Any negative vote subtracts 1 from the vote count per individual voter
<persia> 4) Any zero vote does not affect the vote count
<persia> [VOTE] Confirm voting interpretation for the DMB
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm voting interpretation for the DMB.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cody-somerville> +1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<soren> 0
<nixternal> there goes soren breaking bots again :D
<cjwatson> +q
<cjwatson> +1
<soren> +0
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<MootBot> Abstention received from soren. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<soren> Ah, there we go.
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
<soren> Something about it still seems wrong to me, but I don't have any better proposals. Hence the +0.
<persia> So I think that passes whether we accept that interpetation or the traditional one.
<persia> [TOPIC] ensuring transparency of applications taken to email
<MootBot> New Topic:  ensuring transparency of applications taken to email
<persia> So I noticed when processing JontheEchidna's application that we have a nice public log of votes not in email, but not one for votes in email.
<persia> Any thoughts on how to resolve this, or does it matter, if we post the results?
<cjwatson> I think it's OK to just post a vote manifest
<nixternal> makes the email smaller
<persia> OK.  Shall these be included in future Welcome mails, or be included in the next DMB meeting (so as to be in the u-d-a archives)?
<geser> isn't a mail to devel-permissions with the voting result enough to publish them?
<nixternal> oh oh...just the votes wouldn't be to bad
<nixternal> I think that was my fault for not posting the votes and just linking to the manifest...I should have done both in that email
<persia> So, summary votes to devel-permissions in advance of the welcome mail?
<geser> unless there is a huge time difference between that mail and the welcome mail, the order shouldn't matter much
<cjwatson> either in advance or with, I don't think it matters much
<persia> Anyone confused on this matter, or shall we proceed?
<persia> OK then :)
<persia> (Catching up with the bit I missed)
<persia> [TOPIC] Application process and public notification times
<MootBot> New Topic:  Application process and public notification times
<persia> We've asked for a week's notice on devel-permissions prior to hearing an application.  Sometimes we get that, sometimes not, sometimes it's close.
<persia> My preference is to continue to enforce this to encourage more public comment.  Does that seem reasonable to all?
<geser> +1
<cjwatson> seems reasonable
<soren> yes
<cjwatson> as long as it's clearly documented
<geser> it's mentioned on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess
<geser> but could use a little emphasis
<geser> making it bold or something like that
<cody-somerville> I don't think I was even subscribed to that list.
<persia> Anyone want to take a stab at making the documentation clearer?
<persia> Fine then.
<persia> [ACTION] persia to make documentation on application notice clearer
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to make documentation on application notice clearer
<cody-somerville> Should all members of the DMB be subscribed to devel-permissions? I'm not entirely sure of its purpose. If so, can we have someone with the necessary permissions ensure all members are subscribed? I just subscribed myself but I'm wondering if others are in the same boat.
<persia> cody-somerville: Doesn't matter, but I think we're expected to read it (wheter the archives or by subscription seems a personal choice)
<persia> OK.  Moving on.
<geser> as I understand it the purpose is to have common list for approvals (either through DMB or the delegated teams)
<persia> [TOPIC] Per-Package Uploader application for Krzysztof Klimonda (kklimonda)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Per-Package Uploader application for Krzysztof Klimonda (kklimonda)
<kklimonda> hmm, that's me :)
<persia> Err, sorry.  If there's more on application process, let's do that.
<geser> apropos applications: does somebody know the status of the application of Sylvestre Ledru from March 19th?
<nixternal> nothing more here
<geser> there was a mail to devel-permissions but it doesn't reached our agenda
<persia> geser: Never made the agenda.  Are you up for following up with Sylvestre and getting it on the agenda for the 27th?
<geser> can do
<persia> [ACTION] geser to follow up with Sylvestre Ledru and arrange for the application to be added to the meeting agenda.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  geser to follow up with Sylvestre Ledru and arrange for the application to be added to the meeting agenda.
<persia> OK.  This time for real.
<persia> [TOPIC] Per-Package Uploader application for Krzysztof Klimonda (kklimonda)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Per-Package Uploader application for Krzysztof Klimonda (kklimonda)
<geser> while I am it, should I also mail imbrandon to attend our next meeting?
<persia> I advised him that would probably be the case when he sent the mail.
<kklimonda> should I introduce myself?
<persia> kklimonda: You seem to have uploaded a variety of packages: what makes you choose transmission alone as a PPU target?
<nixternal> persia: can you add links to kklimonda's wiki/lp pages so it is in the manifest?
<persia> Oh, right.  Sorry.
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KrzysztofKlimonda/TransmissionPPUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KrzysztofKlimonda/TransmissionPPUApplication
<nixternal> hehe, I forgot to do it as well last meeting
<persia> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~kklimonda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~kklimonda
<nixternal> and of course, wiki.ubuntu.com is dead for me
<persia> (just because the link doesn't work on the application page)
<kklimonda> the reason I'd like to get PPU rights to the transmission is to lower the burden on chrisccoulson who was the one who were sponsoring all my previous uploads. It worked fine until he has started working on Canonical but now he's busy and getting him to sponsor packages takes time. Because of that I've missed one upload before Beta 2 freeze, now Final Freeze is approaching and I have one more
<kklimonda> upload I'd like to do.
<kklimonda> I'd like to get some more experience (especially with packaging from scratch) before I start applying for the access to wider package sets
<cody-somerville> kklimonda, You mentioned in things that you can improve on: "I really have to check all my changes twice before pushing or attaching them"
<cody-somerville> kklimonda, Have you improved in that area? Would you double check your changes if you had PPU permissions for Transmission?
<geser> what are the common mistakes you do which you miss in your first checks?
<kklimonda> cody-somerville: I had a problem with two things in the past: with changing maintainer in the control file and pushing branch with UNRELEASED pocket, nothing that affects users directly. I think I've managed to improve in this area since I've started working on packaging.
<kklimonda> geser: ^
<kklimonda> cody-somerville: yes - if I were to upload directly to the main archive I'd double and triple check everything.
 * nixternal either - that UNRELEASED gets me everytime
<persia> kklimonda: One of the things you mention that you dislike about Ubuntu is weak communication channels with teh design team.  How do you believe these can be improved?
<kklimonda> persia: I've proposed, as a joke, that all design changes affecting users should come with an "advocacy manual" attached.
<persia> Do you think there are things we, as developers, could do to foster a better understanding of why specific changes are implemented to support advocacy?
<kklimonda> persia: although it's a joke I believe that Ayatana team should be more open about "whys" of their decisions. Probably ayatana ML should be more active, especially when they do something as.. unexpected as changing windows control button order or place.
<kklimonda> persia: can you rephrase "foster better understanding"? :)
<persia> kklimonda: To  improve the communcication so that all parties (designers, developers, advocates) have a shared view of why we do the things we do.
<kklimonda> persia: the idea of moving design discussion of the public mailing list has been made by the ayatana team afair, so I don't think we can do much. What I'd like to see was more communication from their side.
<cody-somerville> I'm ready to vote.
 * persia has no further questions
<soren> '
<soren> Whoops :)
 * soren has no further questions either
<persia> geser: cjwatson: nixternal: ?
<geser> no further questions
<nixternal> nothing here
<persia> [VOTE} Accept Krzysztof Klimonda as Uploader for transmission
<MootBot> Please vote on: [VOTE} Accept Krzysztof Klimonda as Uploader for transmission.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> +1 from me.  Clear history of package maintenance and use of freeze exceptions, SRUs, etc demonstating familiarity with Ubuntu processes and schedules.
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<soren> +1!
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<geser> soren: you are not persia who can replace a ] with a } and the bot still understand him :)
<soren> That bot really is picky about syntax.
<soren> geser: it's not fair
<soren> :)
 * cody-somerville ponders.
<persia> Seems we lost cjwatson, so here's a paste fom before the meeting (he mentioned he might have connectivity issues):
<persia> If I don't make it, please consider this a +1 for kklimonda's transmission PPU application based on comments from Chris and Martin
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<cody-somerville> I didn't vote :(
<persia> cody-somerville: What's your vote then.
<persia> (sorry: I can't count today)
<cody-somerville> +1 because of comments from Chris and Martin but with reservations due to the short period of time the applicant has been uploading Transmission (~ 3 months).
<kklimonda> cody-somerville: I think my first T upload was somewhere in Jun 2009
<persia> OK.  That's +6.
<cody-somerville> kklimonda, Of Transmission?
<persia> kklimonda: Congratulations, and welcome!
<nixternal> cody-somerville: yeah, aptitude changelog transmission :)
<nixternal> kklimonda: congrats and welcome!
<persia> I don't actually know how to process a PPU approval.  Anyone else up for processing this one?
 * nixternal points at cjwatson 
<cody-somerville> Ah, launchpad made that information difficult to easily see.
<persia> (or walking me through the process)
<cody-somerville> I guess I have no reservations :)
<cody-somerville> persia, I think cjwatson has to do it. I don't think non-TB members have the necessary permissions.
<persia> OK.  We ought fix that.
<persia> Moving on.
<persia> No other applications.
<kklimonda> nixternal: thanks
<persia> Who is chair next time?
 * nixternal points at cody-somerville 
<cody-somerville> hehe
<cody-somerville> Okay okay
<nixternal> hahaha, I am having fun pointing this morning
<persia> Great then.  I'll send minutes in a bit.
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:58.
<nixternal> I meant to point at cjwatson, but c<tab> and it highlighted you
<nixternal> since I pointed at him just a minute ago
<kklimonda> persia: also thanks :)
<geser> persia: I'm not sure about it if edit_acl.py from lp:ubuntu-archive-tools is also used for PPU permissions
<geser> but a quick look shows that it might
<geser> persia: if you are brave you could try if LP lets you
<soren> That's at least the tool you use to inspect permissions. cjwatson tends put the command to do that in the e-mails he sends out after giving someone PPU privs.
<persia> geser: I tried to play with edit_acl.py on Sunday, and only managed to get it to crash (and there's no manpage).
<persia> Part of why I requested the creation of a Kernel Uploaders team was because I couldn't otherwise process an outstanding application :)
<geser> persia: in theory "edit_acl.py --source=transmission --person=kklimonda add" should do it, but all I get is an OOPS from LP
<cody-somerville> It won't work. We don't have the necessary permissions.
<cody-somerville> DMB needs to be added to the ubuntu-drivers team.
<persia> That's something to sort out then: we can't always count on there being a TB member on the DMB.
<persia> Or the permissions for that need to change.
<cody-somerville> Yes.
<cjwatson> persia: sorry I fell off connectivity there.  I've run './edit_acl.py -s transmission -p kklimonda add'.
<cjwatson> DMB/ubuntu-drivers> that really doesn't sound right - is that really the appropriate team?  unfortunately LP makes it kind of hard to discover which privilege you're using when you're performing an action.
<cjwatson>     def checkAuthenticated(self, user):
<cjwatson>         """Users must be an admin or a member of the tech board."""
<cjwatson>         return user.in_admin or user.in_ubuntu_techboard
<cjwatson> so ubuntu-drivers wouldn't help.
<cody-somerville> cjwatson, Where do you see that?
<cjwatson> lib/canonical/launchpad/security.py
<cjwatson> class EditArchivePermissionSet
<cjwatson> I'm filing a bug
<cjwatson> bug 562451
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 562451 in soyuz "developer-membership-board should be able to edit ArchivePermissionSet" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/562451
<Hawkeye> Hello all...
<Hawkeye> How long before this meething starts?
<Hawkeye> meeting*
 * Hawkeye will be unable to attend, but will read the conversation when he comes back. He will leave this window open...
<Hawkeye> cjohnston: I am interested in helping out. I will notice you my email address
<cjohnston> ok..
<cjohnston> thanks
<Hawkeye> However right now I need to get to bed as I have been up 32 hours straight recovering data from a failed server and rebuilding...
<Hawkeye> Chat soon!
<Hawkeye> :D
<cjohnston> Who is here for the website localization meeting?
 * pleia2 lurks and listens :)
<cjohnston> Anyone?
 * newz2000 is
<adiroiban> o/
<cjohnston> Ok.. Well.. I guess we can start...
 * Agafonov just curious
<cjohnston> The goal of the website localization project is to put a short message in a users preferred language on any ubuntu.com web page, that directs the user to more help in thier language.
<cjohnston> The page that the users is offered will be a wiki page that has been translated from a template, which offeres resources in their language.
<adiroiban> note, that many local communities already have wikis, forums and a translated version for doc.ubuntu.com
<cjohnston> newz2000 has come up with a way to determine the users preferred language as set by their browser and then will display a short line that will display the info from a .js file
<cjohnston> adiroiban, however, a user visiting www.ubunutu.com won't know that
<adiroiban> cjohnston: yes
<cjohnston> the goal here is to assist the user in getting to those pages
<adiroiban> but rather than creating a new wiki
<adiroiban> maybe we can build something on top of the ubuntu documentation translations
<cjohnston> adiroiban: the new wiki page will be like a landing page for that language.. which can direct them to multiple resources.. forums, other translated pages, etc
<adiroiban> cjohnston: yes, but wiki pages are hard to translate
<adiroiban> and keep in sync with the original text
<adiroiban> this is why I was suggesting a docbook
<cjohnston> newz2000, thoughts?
<newz2000> adiroiban: the pages probably won't be a direct translations
<adiroiban> with translations extracted and available for translation in Launchapd translations
<adiroiban> and generated static HTML pages
<newz2000> the template will be a guideline of information that needs to be presented but will differ for each locale
<adiroiban> newz2000: ok
<newz2000> but the idea of the documentation is interesting...
<Agafonov> Why not to link to any site LoCo decide to fit better their users?
<newz2000> because as cjohnston will come to, we do have a quality control hurdle to jump through
<adiroiban> +1 to newz2000 :)
<newz2000> cjohnston: continue
<cjohnston> We will need people to create the technical backend to this.. which will be the first step of the project
<cjohnston> and then we will involve the loco teams and translation teams to setup the landing pages for each language
<cjohnston> There will need to be a strict review process for the translated pages, to ensure that they dont get filled with spam, or link to pages that don't actually provide any useful information
<adiroiban> one good think about using docbook is that we already have all the infrastructure to generate translated pages for https://help.ubuntu.com/
<cjohnston> we also need to make a couple of decions on how to structure a few things
<cjohnston> newz2000, do you want to discuss the technical aspect of this?
<newz2000> sure
<newz2000> Using content negotiation built into apache, we can create js files named as such: filename.js.de
<newz2000> we then link to it like this: <script type="text/javascript" src="filename.js"></script>
<newz2000> if a german speaking user loads the file they'll get the js.de version
<newz2000> if a user's language isn't represented they'll get a (blank) filename.js
<newz2000> so each js file will only need to provide the details for its own language
<newz2000> cjohnston: back to you
<cjohnston> We will need to create these files, and translate the message to be displayed to the user
<cjohnston> Once we get it working, and get the landing pages translated, it will be added to the ubuntu.com website by Canonical
<cjohnston> One thing we need to decide on is the URL structure for the landing pages
<cjohnston> i.e. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/?/?
<alefteris> will the users be able to close this bar once and for all or it will pop up in every page?
<cjohnston> alefteris: 1 sec, ill provide you what we want it to look like
<cjohnston> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/WebsiteLocalization/Spec
<cjohnston> alefteris: it will just be a little message on the page..
<cjohnston> It won't be like a pop-up or anything.. so no reason to be able to close it
<cjohnston> newz2000 you had mentioned something to me about the URL structure.. but I don't remember what..
<newz2000> Assuming we're uisng the wiki, it could be something like wiki.ubuntu.com/<prefix>/<lang>
<alefteris> cjohnston, something like the google chrome bar that comes up for page translation, if you have seen in?
<cjohnston> I have not seen what you are referring to..
<cjohnston> This will just display some text on the screen with a link... just like the text that is already on the site
<alefteris> ok
<cjohnston> Does anyone have any suggestions on a URL structure?
<adiroiban> cjohnston: is that really important?
<adiroiban> :)
<cjohnston> well.. it will need to be put into the script
<adiroiban> I think that anything will do
<newz2000> cjohnston: just pick something I think
<cjohnston> okie
<alefteris> hping no team uses that naming already
<cjohnston> I'm fine with w.u.c./Local/lang
<newz2000> looks unused
<alefteris> what about the wiki page content?
<cjohnston> One other thing that we need to decide, but it may need to be decided by the loco teams/translation teams is if it should be limited to one general page for each language, or if it should be broken down into like en_US and en_GB
<cjohnston> alefteris: what about it? we need to create a template and then get the two teams involved in translating and adding resources
<alefteris> cjohnston, the kind of content for the page being discused?
<alefteris> has been discused*
<cjohnston> it will be..
<alefteris> team pages that most locos have, won't do because they are not uniform? for example: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GreekTeam
<cjohnston> the team page can be a link from the landing page
<cjohnston> but they dont always provide help as much as provide info about the team
<adiroiban> cjohnston: at least pt and pt_BR should have separate pages
<adiroiban> same for mandarin
<cjohnston> newz2000: do you have anything else to discuss?
<newz2000> cjohnston: no
<cjohnston> Anyone else have anything to discuss at this point?
 * newz2000 would like to see a lang or two prototyped soon
<cjohnston> yup
<cjohnston> Ok.. if noone else has anything, then I think we are done..
<cjohnston> for now
<cjohnston> Thanks for stopping by to those of you who made it.. I'll be contacting shortly via email about the next steps. :-)
<adiroiban> also, for more feedback we can alwasy ask on mailing lists
<newz2000> thanks cjohnston
<cjohnston> yup
<adiroiban> :)
<adiroiban> cheers
<cjohnston> adiroiban: ping
<adiroiban> cjohnston: hi
<cjohnston> could you join #ubuntu-website if you have time
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-14
<i12> hey, so Im looking for a good channel for general ubuntu help
<i12> am i in the right spot? any recommendations welcome
<Pendulum> i12: try #ubuntu
<i12> thanks!
<kirkland> o/
<Daviey> \o
<ttx> o/
<zul> morning
<ttx> smoser: ?
<ttx> let's get started
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:01. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> Welcome everyone to the Ubuntu Server team weekly meeting
<ttx> Agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ttx> I'm the scribe today
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> * Mathiaz to fix a broken script with bug reporting link above.
<ttx> * ttx to follow up with ivoks/RoaKSoax on cluster stack state
<ttx> * mathiaz to propose removal of dovecot-postfix on MLs
<RoAkSoAx>  o/
<smoser> 0/
<ttx> mathiaz is absent, I think both of his actions are still on the TODO list
<ttx> About cluster stack, I followed up but did not follow-up on the followup yet
<ttx> so we'll have these actions for next week again
<ttx> RoAkSoAx: I'll bother you after the meeting if that's alright with you
<RoAkSoAx> ttx, sure
<ttx> [TOPIC] Lucid release status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid release status
<zul> yay!
<ttx> FinalFreeze will hit us tomorrow
<ttx> rather sooner than later, if Beta2Freeze is of any indication
<ttx> Once we are frozen all uploads will need ReleaseTeam approval
<ttx> so get everything you can in by EOD :)
<ttx> RC bugs status:
<ttx> bug 556343 (zul)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 556343 in bind9 "upgrade error on 8.04 -> 10.04 " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/556343
<zul> mvo said he hasnt looked at it yet
<ttx> quick one-liner on each bug status please :)
<ttx> bug 532733 (kirkland)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532733
<smoser> (is there an RC bug list ttx ?)
<ttx> ah hm
<ttx> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<kirkland> ttx: forwarded upstream;  i haven't made much progress on that one, and i'm not able to reproduce it easily (outside of the odd apt-get circumstance)
<mvo> zul: I run the test now again and once its finshed I upload the syslog file
<ttx> There is a bug in malone search preventing a dynamic list here
<ttx> bug 513273 (kirkland)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 513273 in vgabios "kvm with -vga std is broken since karmic" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/513273
<ttx> I think this one is done ?
<ttx> bug 533029 (zul)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 533029 in autofs5 "[FFE] autofs5-ldap doesn't work immediately after bootup" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/533029
<zul> slangasek said he has looked at it but hasnt commented about it
<zul> ill bug him again today
<ttx> We also need some AA attention on bug 562261, FFe approved for this one already
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 562261 in krb5 "Sync krb5 1.8.1+dfsg-2 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/562261
<kirkland> ttx: i uploaded a fix, but it was rejected by slangasek; i've asked the (many) bug commenters to help do some testing on it against bochs
<ttx> kirkland: ok, thanks
<ttx> On the remaining work items in the specs at http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.04.html
<ttx> the two in eucalyptus merging and packaging should be done today
<ttx> the remaining ones are mostly on track, need mathiaz for an update
<ttx> Finally, you can find a list of Lucid targets of opportunity at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> Mostly a server-oriented view of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs
<ttx> Once your higher-prio items are done feel free to pick up bugs in there ;)
<ttx> I think we are mostly in good shape
<ttx> we need more testing, so don't hesitate to blog/call for that
<ttx> Questions ?
<ttx> ok, moving on then
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<ttx> hggdh: hi
<hggdh> no Q from me, tested with kirkland yesaterday the problem I opened
<hggdh> ttx: hi
<hggdh> I am still unable to run KVM locally (my laptop), kernel oops
<ttx> Would be good to come to the bottom of those, if only to get some trusted test results
<hggdh> yes
<ttx> I think we are good with the ISO testcases we came up for beta2
<hggdh> sounds and smells like routing
<kirkland> ttx: i would like jjohansen and the kernel team to take a serious look at hggdh's kvm issue
<hggdh> I am starting to work on the EC2 tests, jump-starting from smoser's work
<kirkland> ttx: i think that's likely a portent of things to fcome
<ttx> hggdh: if you can't find where it comes from with kirkland, I'll try to get access and have a look, just in case something jumps out
<jjohansen> hggdh: try the latest Beta2 kernel
<smoser> hggdh, awesome. please ping me if you need any help reading that embarrassing collection of slop
<smoser> and please, don't judge.
<hggdh> jjohansen: I am running Lucid up-to-date. You mean you want me to downgrade?
<kirkland> ttx: hggdh's testing issue is one of networking/routing
<jjohansen> hggdh: no, I want you to try the kernel that hasn't been released yet :)
<kirkland> ttx: i think mathiaz's knowledge of the lab's networking will solve that bug, thus i re-assigned it to him for now
<ttx> kirkland: yes, I asked for more data o nthe bug, but it might be simpler for me to connect and look ;)
<jjohansen> I can provide you a dpkg or you can wait a couple days
<kirkland> ttx: mathias gets to Austin late tonight; we'll look at it together tomorrow
<hggdh> jjohansen: if it is the -21, I just installed it, and will reboot after the meeting
<jjohansen> hggdh: -21.31
 * ttx thanks the QA team for their help in debunking bug 546743 on the HW enablement labs (fader, thanks :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 546743 in linux "Blank screen at first boot with ATI ES1000 and 10.04 server" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546743
<ttx> anything else for QA ?
<hggdh> jjohansen: matches
<jjohansen> yeah
<hggdh> smoser: who am I to judge anybody? I will not :-)
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<ttx> hggdh: thanks
<ttx> jjohansen: hi !
<jjohansen> hi
<ttx> jjohansen: how is it going, before I hit you with my issues ?
<jjohansen> heh, well not bad considering
<ttx> ok, so the biggest issue on server affecting release right now is... bug 546743
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 546743 in linux "Blank screen at first boot with ATI ES1000 and 10.04 server" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546743
<ttx> Most IBM/Lenovo servers ship with that ES1000
<ttx> and I suspect many others
<jjohansen> right, that is basically SRU atm
<ttx> if that's SRU, I'd make a plea for nomodeset by default
<ttx> cjwatson: around ?
<ttx> makes us look very bad to not having a login prompt after an install on a lot of servers
<jjohansen> ttx: well basically every thing kernel is SRU, or at least have to make it past the release team
<ttx> well, I'll let them choose between the two evils
<jjohansen> the kernel froze monday
<cjwatson> ttx: yes, I saw - I'm OK with that I think
<ttx> jjohansen: if it gets a finalfreeze exception, is it something we know how to fix ?
<ttx> cjwatson: the exception or nomodeset ?
<cjwatson> nomodeset
<cjwatson> if that's the approach recommended and approved by the kernel team
<ttx> team: would you mind losing the higher screen resolution on console VTs ?
<kirkland> ttx: i very much would
<jjohansen> ttx: hrmm nomodeset can be done, I will raise with kernel team
<ttx> kirkland: explain
<kirkland> ttx: the new 128x35 lines (or whatever) is brilliant
<kirkland> ttx: if that's what you're talking about
<ttx> I'd argue that our target audience doesn't care about consoles
<kirkland> ttx: are you talking about losing that, to downgrade back to 80x25 ?
 * Daviey adds a blueprint to flesh out "target audience"
<ttx> Daviey: tss :)
<kirkland> ttx: what's the method for a user wanting higher res to bump it back up?
<ttx> kirkland: remove nomodeset from kernel cmdline
<ttx> jjohansen: or would it just affect the ES1000 case ?
<kirkland> ttx: if that's a one-liner, that an admin can run once postinstall, or preseed it, I suppose that would suffice
<smoser> all impression I have seen of our target audience, first and foremost is fully functional console.  80x25 is acceptable.
<jjohansen> ttx: it depends how it is done
<zul> smoser: ditto
<ttx> jjohansen: I'll let you brainstorm what the options are
<jjohansen> easiest would be either system wide or just set that ati card to nomodeset
<ttx> jjohansen: then we'll discuss that with release team
<ttx> jjohansen: does it sound good ?
<jjohansen> ttx: yes, I'll poke some more and see if there are other options at the moment, and get back to you in a bit but I think that is it
<jjohansen> the fix for Bug #530361 was snuck in
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 530361 in linux "Support for DELL H200/H700/H800 SAS cards is missing in the CD/DVD installer for Lucid (mpt2sas)" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530361
<ttx> yes, that's good, thanks !
<kirkland> ttx: smoser: okay, i suppose a functional 80x25 would be acceptable;  i strongly suggest that we have well published documentation on how to get it back
<jjohansen> that happened as we had problems with some other critical issues and broke freeze for those issues
<ttx> kirkland: ideally that would just affect the faulty card
<kirkland> ttx: ah, okay
<ttx> kirkland: but if there is any risk of losing console, I perfer to have 80x25 everywhere than 128x35 only for 80% of servers
<ttx> and nothing on the remaining 20%
<kirkland> ttx: agreed
<ttx> jjohansen: cool :)
<ttx> anything else for kernel ?
<ttx> hopefully the latest kernel will fix hggdh's kvm
<zul> thanks for everything jjohansen you are the best
 * hggdh hops so
 * jjohansen wonders what evil thing zul is going to ask for now :)
<zul> hah..
<ttx> let's find out
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (zul)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (zul)
<zul> hi
<zul> so there is nothing nominated for dapper, hardy, intrepid
<zul> for jaunty and karmic there is one nominated
<ttx> the one for jaunty is wishlist -> no
<zul> 156636
<zul> agreed
<zul> and its the same for karmic
<ttx> same for karmic
<ttx> the fixed buglist is still broken
<ttx> heh, looks like this will be a short review
<zul> anything in that list
<zul> thats broken ;)
<ttx> yes :)
<zul> nothing in that list from me
<zul> ttx: ?
<ttx> you can look at http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/lucid-fixes-report.html for server bugs recently fixed
<ttx> I have no suggestion though
<Daviey> it's all eucalyptus, or not relevant IMO.
<zul> so next is proposed list
<zul> there is 3 of them which need to be reviewed
<ttx> http://tinyurl.com/y4xza95
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://tinyurl.com/y4xza95
<ttx> ubuntu-server recently fixed bugs ^
<zul> so when someone has some downtime can they review them
<Daviey> zul: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+activereviews ?
<zul> yep
<ttx> zul:  ack
<zul> anything else?
<ttx> zul: do you plan to discuss SRU handling at UDS ?
<zul> ttx: yeah i mentioned it to ttx
<ttx> or hallway-discuss it ?
<zul> not ttx jos
<ttx> ok
<ttx> looks like our process could still use some improvement
<ttx> and since this is LTS time again...
<Daviey> +1
<zul> i think its part of the qa workflow that needs to be updated again
<ttx> zul: ok, anything else ?
<zul> and considering the .1 release is going to be happening within the maverick timeframe
<zul> nope
 * ttx pastes actions to pass to next week for reference
<ttx> [ACTION] Mathiaz to fix the "server fixed bugs" broken script
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Mathiaz to fix the "server fixed bugs" broken script
<ttx> [ACTION] ttx to follow up with ivoks/RoaKSoax on cluster stack state
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to follow up with ivoks/RoaKSoax on cluster stack state
<ttx> [ACTION] mathiaz to propose removal of dovecot-postfix on MLs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to propose removal of dovecot-postfix on MLs
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<zul> yes...
<ttx> anything / anyone ?
<Daviey> Any news on blueprints?
<ttx> any bug you'd like to bring to general attention ?
<ttx> Daviey: we haven't reviewed our scratchlist yet... it's even missing input from some team members
<zul> i been working on getting mysql-5.0 out of universe and it should be ready to be removed from universe today
<Daviey> ttx: ok thanks
<bilalakhtar> zul: But why? Will it go to main?
<ttx> Daviey: I think in all cases we'll have a public wikipage by the end of week, reviewed or not
<zul> bilalakhtar: because mysql-5.1 is in main
<Daviey> ttx: superb,
<bilalakhtar> zul: ok
<ttx> zul: good
<ttx> does everyone sleep well ?
<kirkland> meh
<zul> no
<ttx> ok, I'm not the only one then
<smoser> apparently my leg twitches when i sleep
<smoser> this is all hearsay
<zul> my wife sleep walks and screams in her sleep
<zul> and talks in her sleep
<zul> and something else about lucid
<zul> anyways :)
<ttx> ok
<ttx> we should have a session on how to make the meeting more lively :)
<ttx> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<ttx> Next week, same time, same place
<ttx> #endmeeting
<Daviey> great \o/
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:51.
<ttx> and now let's write up, yay
<Daviey> heh
<mvo> hi
<ev> hello
<tremolux> hey!
<mvo> can I paste my lighting report and be 5min out? mini conflicts with the schedule?
<ev> surely
<mvo> did: lots of update-manager/upgrade fixing work, software-center work (UI responsiveness)
<mvo> todo: bugfixing in update-manager/upgrades, software-center
 * mvo will be back as quick as possible
<ev> lool, barry, cjwatson, doko__, slangasek, james_w: ping
<james_w> hi
<doko__> hi
<barry> hi
<cjwatson> hi
<ev> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is ev.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ev> [LINK] Meeting Agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0414
<MootBot> LINK received:  Meeting Agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0414
<ev> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<ev> order: tremolux, lool, ev, barry, cjwatson, doko, slangasek, james_w
<tremolux> k
<tremolux> Lots of software-center bug fixing and testing.
<tremolux> Channel updating bugs mentioned last week are fixed.
<tremolux> Holiday next week!
<tremolux> (done)
<ev> I don't think lool is going to make it, so...
<ev> some installer fixes, meetings with sabdfl and the design team to discuss the latest drafts of the installer design, hopefully fixed an apt bug, and lots of work on ubiquity unit testing
<ev> (done)
<barry> pep 3147; bug 519541 (abiword hang); spent a little time working on cjwatson's script, but i think we'll need update lazr.restfulclient to 0.9.13 in lucid. (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 519541 in abiword "Abiword 2.8.1 freezes with document lost when help is clicked or F1 is pressed" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/519541
<cjwatson> done: buried in customer bugs first half of this week; fixed a few more partitioner and boot loader bugs, almost entirely happy with those for lucid now
<cjwatson> todo: sync up d-i component translations for lucid; concentrate completely on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone=21439, inc. remaining Kubuntu installation issues
<cjwatson> --
<doko> done:
<doko>  * openjdk-6: testing, preparation of the icedtea6-1.8 release, debug plugin failures, make it
<doko> robust with our wrongly configured firefox, reduce test failures in the jtreg testsuite.
<doko>  * robustify ca-certificates-java updates with unsupported certificates
<doko>  * sun-java6 updates for older releases
<doko>  * gdc-4.3 updates to fix regressions
<doko>  * started archive rebuild
<doko>  * toolchain preparation for maverick, updated gcc-plugindir patch, now in trunk, new gcc-snapshot/gcc-4.5 packages
<doko>  * ant1.8, bash, libtunepimp uploads
<doko>  * java bug triage
<doko> todo:
<doko>  * eglibc update
<doko>  * file bug reports for test rebuild failures
<doko>  * get some sleep
<doko> --
 * mvo is back
 * james_w guesses slangasek isn't up yet
<ev> indeed, james_w, you're up
<james_w> launchpad, bzr-builddeb and sponsoring, with some lucid bug fixing etc. thrown in. More of the same to come. (done)
<ev> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting
<cjwatson> oh, I forgot one thing, I'm working on a dpkg update with backports for some important bugs, though it's taking some coordination with upstream
<ev> I didn't see any in the report, but speak up if you have some
<barry> ev: i had an old action item for cjwatson, which i spent a little time on.  blocked on an old version of lazr.restfulclient in lucid (which i'll work w/the lp team to get updated)
<ev> barry: cool, thanks
<ev> okay, moving on
<ev> [TOPIC] Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<ev> I imagine none
<barry> ev: i was trying to get c-j 2.0 into lucid, but that's not going to happen
<ev> :(
<doko> c-j?
<barry> computer janitor.  i couldn't convince pitti ;)
<ev> barry: are you going to shove it in -proposed?
<cjwatson> or a PPA
<barry> it's in my ppa now.  i want to undo the translation changes i made for the ffe and then upload a new version.  i do want to propose it for m
<cjwatson> I think for m, Just Do It
<cjwatson> (oh yeah, we can say maverick now)
<ev> but it could reasonably go in 10.04.1, no?
<barry> cjwatson: cool.  i don't think i know the exact process for that, but i'll figure it out :)
<barry> ev: well, i'd love that, but i don't know if that would satisfy the concerns pitti had
<ev> fair enough
<barry> i made a plea for others to test it on ubuntu-devel but got zero responses :(
<ev> barry: ubuntuforums is usually good for that kind of thing
<barry> ev: oh cool.  i'll give that a try then.  i think with some others testing it, it could have gone in 10.04 final
<barry> but oh well
<ev> [TOPIC] Milestoned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Milestoned bugs
<ev> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone:list=21447
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone:list=21447
<ev> is that entirely the wrong URL?
<cjwatson> isn't that the beta-2 milestone?
<ev> yeah, whoops
<ev> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs ?
<cjwatson> =21439
<ev> ah
<cjwatson> the URL was in my lightning round update, actually
<cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone=21439
<ev> thanks
<ev> usb-creator> I'll sort that before release, doesn't depend on the archive
<cjwatson> I may unmilestone the partman-auto recipe tweak bug - I'm not sure whether that's a good idea to change at this point
<cjwatson> nested progress bars I'd like to fix, but if I can't, not the end of the world
<mvo> a new software-center with fixes will go in tonight
<ev> ubiquity> the kde frontend makes me sad, but we have most of the problems there sorted
<cjwatson> the BIOS hang due to the partitioner has a workaround which can be documented
<mvo> plus the apt fix that ev helpfully did \o/
<ev> yay
<cjwatson> the ATA passthrough stuff in hdparm has a known workaround, will apply it soon after another skim through the upstream discussion to see if it's been resolved properly yet
<cjwatson> omap installation are Not Our Problem, that's mobile team
<cjwatson> *installations
<cjwatson> anyone want to fix dmraid?
<cjwatson> oh, that has a branch, guess I'll look at that
<cjwatson> plymouth I'm assuming Keybuk/slangasek will handle
<ev> I don't know what the rest of your bug mail is like, but it's eerily quiet here.  Or at least significantly quieter than Beta 1.
<cjwatson> bug 470550 I guess we should have another look at but it doesn't seem appropriate to change for lucid at this point
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 470550 in coreutils "uname -p and uname -i reporting `unknown'" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/470550
<ev> I guess that's a good thing
<cjwatson> it's quieter than beta-1, though not flatlining by any means
<cjwatson> bug 557220 has I think been fixed in debian-cd, will check and close
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557220 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu "kubuntu splash using old logo" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557220
<Riddell> yes it has assuming I got the colours right
<cjwatson> I'm concerned about the remaining kernel tasks, don't know what the timeline is looking like for those
<ev> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/549738 is worrying
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 549738 in ubiquity "[Lucid Beta2] Booting with new ubiquity live session audio doesn't work" [High,Triaged]
<ev> right, anything else on the bug front?
<Riddell> bug 556555
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 556555 in ubiquity "oem-config loops indefinitely in Kubuntu OEM installations" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/556555
<Riddell> that's worrying me, I don't know how to start debugging it
<Riddell> and it disappeared when I did
<cjwatson> find out how I can reproduce it, and I'll debug it
<cjwatson> I think when I tried I couldn't
<Riddell> plain OEM install does it for me, on virtualbox or real
<ev> I'll give it a try after the meeting
<mvo> I'm a bit worried about the threading deadlocks in computer-janitor
<mvo> the fix is to move to the dbus branch, but that got rejected because it was too late (unfortunately)
<mvo> for me it reliable deadlocks but I haven't found a fix (and other stuff that is also important)
<barry> mvo: i didn't get much response on my query to remove c-j-gtk from default install
<mvo> I guess that is good
<mvo> I mean, not much opposition
<barry> mvo: my only concern is that the gtk version could still be useful to people.  e.g. for me it never deadlocked (but i haven't used v1 in a while)
<barry> mvo: i guess i am on the fence about it
<mvo> hm, ok
<mvo> if I'm the only one seeing it its probably a way too big hammer
<barry> mvo: i think i will just triage bugs as they come in and point them to my ppa
 * mvo nods
<mvo> thanks
<ev> anything else?
<ev> [TOPIC] Good News
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
<barry> looks like pep 3147 will make it into py3k trunk by friday.  symlink farms days are numbered
<doko> ... the ABI patch pending ...
<mvo> \o/
<barry> doko: well, yes, i will be working on that next :)
<mvo> the upgrade tester has finally! moved to the datacenter and is in full automatic mode
<mvo> there is also a initial version of the pkg-install-tester running (but that is probably a bit buggy still)
<barry> mvo: cool! are the results available online or via email?
<mvo> http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<ev> We finally have a basic test harness for ubiquity (to land in trunk after lucid), with a much more involved set of tests to land as soon as I can figure out EC2 desktop CD testing or I unbreak `fakechroot fakeroot debootstrap`.
<mvo> the pkg install tester is http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/auto-install-tester/
<ev> [TOPIC] Chair for next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chair for next meeting
<mvo> creating additional profiles is simple, if someone has good ideas
<barry> mvo: are you looking at the failure details to see if they are fixable?
<mvo> barry: yes, lts-ubuntu is pending, d-h-l-ubuntu is a OOo upgrade bug (I attached a fix there)
<mvo> barry: I need to make the "Bugs" column filed automatically for known failures
<mvo> that is still missing
<barry> mvo: cool
<mvo> mythbuntu, lts-mythbuntu are profile failures, that will be fixed in the next cron run
<mvo> so it looks reasonable well
<barry> nice!
<ev> Any volunteers to run the next meeting?
<barry> ev: i'll do it
<ev> barry: awesome, thanks
<ev> [TOPIC] AOB?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB?
<ev> going once, going twice...
<ev> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:39.
<ev> thanks everyone!
<barry> thanks!
<mvo> thanks
<tremolux> have a good day everyone
<ev> you too
<james_w> thanks
<hggdh> ~o~
 * marjo waves
 * bladernr can't find the coffee pot
<pedro_> hey hey!
<davmor2> bladernr: little to your left
<bdmurray> hi
 * fader_ waves.
<marjo> #startmeeting QA Team
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is marjo.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<marjo> [TOPIC] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<marjo> # SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<marjo> # Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<marjo> hi folks
<marjo> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie
<sbeattie> SRU activity was very light this past week.
<sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past week (since 2010-04-07):
<sbeattie> * karmic: 1 new packages in -proposed (postgresql-8.4)
<sbeattie>       and 3 packages pushed to -updates (eucalyptus, ifupdown, obexd)
<sbeattie> * jaunty: 1 new packages in -proposed (postgresql-8.3)
<sbeattie> * intrepid: no SRU activity
<sbeattie> * hardy: 1 new packages in -proposed (postgresql-8.3)
<sbeattie>      and 2 packages pushed to -updates (exim4, pyclutter)
<sbeattie> * dapper: 1 new package in -proposed (postgresql-8.1)
<sbeattie> Thanks to Leonel Nunez, Robert Hau, Matteo Collina, and Andres Rodriguez for testing SRUs this week.
<sbeattie> I suspect the 2nd beta drop may have had something to do with that.
<sbeattie> As always, people who are interested in helping to test SRUs can come join us in #ubuntu-testing.
<sbeattie> (That's all I've got for SRUs this week)
<marjo> any questions for sbeattie?
<marjo> thx steve
<marjo> [TOPIC] Bug Day status - pvillavi
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Day status - pvillavi
<pedro_> On Thursday 08 we had a bug day based on Rhythmbox, the community contribution was awesome!
<pedro_> ~73 bugs were triaged that day, Thanks a lot to our hug days heroes: kamusin, vish, sbarjola, charlie-tca and hernejj for their extraordinary work!
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100408
<pedro_> There's a graph at the bottom of the page, which looks great ;-)
<pedro_> ok so Tomorrow!
<pedro_> We're going to have a bug day for Software Center organized by Draycen DeCator (aka ddecator)
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100415
<pedro_> Some folks already started to work on it and there's still plenty of bugs to be triaged so if you have some time and want to learn a bit more about bug triage join us, we'll be glad to help you to start
<pedro_> and big Thanks to ddecator for helping us with the organization!
<pedro_> that's all from here marjo
<hggdh> sorry, kernel oops. Did I miss anything
<marjo> folks: any questions for pedro_ ?
<marjo> hggdh: no worries
<hggdh> thanks
<bdmurray> a kernel oops is worrying ;-)
<pedro_> heh
<marjo> hggdh: please report a bug on your kernel oops
<bdmurray> heh
<hggdh> marjo: already reported, even twice, now testing a new kernel (-21.31)
<marjo> [TOPIC] Lucid Beta 2 Test Report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid Beta 2 Test Report
<marjo> Lucid Beta 2 Test Report
<marjo> 9th April 2010
<marjo> = Summary =
<marjo> == Test Coverage ==
<marjo> Image Coverage: 100%
<marjo> Mandatory Testcase Coverage: 207/207 = 100.00
<marjo> Optional Testcase Coverage: 9/18 = 50.00
<marjo> === Test Failure Analysis ===
<marjo> 25 Test Failures
<marjo> Failure Rate 25/216 = 11.57
<marjo> == Serious bugs found in ISO testing status ==
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~marjomercado/isotestingbugs.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~marjomercado/isotestingbugs.html
<marjo> i want to thank everyone who helped us achieve 100% image & mandatory test coverage
<marjo> we really appreciate your work on ensuring a quality release
<sbeattie> What were the optionals that we missed?
<marjo> sbeattie: don't have that handy
<marjo> sorry
<sbeattie> marjo: okay. just trying to figure out how we can get to 100% there as well.
<marjo> sbeattie: i'll work with ara to make sure we get coverage on all tests; that's always the goal
<marjo> even if they're optional
<marjo> [TOPIC] Lucid Bug Report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid Bug Report
<marjo> 15 days left and 276 bug tasks to fix. [1]
<marjo> Lucid Final Freeze - 15 April 2010 (1 day away)
<marjo> Barring no new work, we need to fix 18 bug tasks a day now.
<marjo> The average resolution rate/day during the past month has been 18/day.
<marjo> The focus of bug fixing should be on the following tasks:
<marjo> 1. The 5 Critical bug tasks. [3]
<marjo> 519541
<marjo> Abiword 2.8.1 freezes with document
<marjo> lost when help is clicked or F1 is
<marjo> pressed
<marjo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/abiword/+bug/519541
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 519541 in abiword "Abiword 2.8.1 freezes with document lost when help is clicked or F1 is pressed" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<marjo> 511988
<marjo> isdnutils: various licensing issues
<marjo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/isdnutils/+bug/511988
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 511988 in isdnutils "isdnutils: various licensing issues" [Critical,Triaged]
<marjo> 532374
<marjo> Lenovo Thinkpads with Core i5 and i7
<marjo> suspend/resume (with kernel oops)
<marjo> once then fail horribly on next
<marjo> suspend
<marjo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux/+bug/532374
<marjo> 548513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532374 in oem-priority "Lenovo Thinkpads with Core i5 and i7 suspend/resume (with kernel oops) once then fail horribly on next suspend" [Critical,In progress]
<marjo> Some firewire & usb disks not
<marjo> working under 10.04
<marjo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux/+bug/548513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 548513 in oem-priority "Some firewire & usb disks not working under 10.04" [Critical,In progress]
<marjo> 542208
<marjo> Please blacklist i830 from Kernel
<marjo> mode-setting
<marjo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux/+bug/542208
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 542208 in linux "Please blacklist i830 from Kernel mode-setting" [Critical,In progress]
<marjo> 2. The 24 bug tasks that might cause a regression in Lucid. [4]
<marjo> 3. The 99 High bug tasks. [5]
<marjo> that's it from me
<bdmurray> I think having the bug number appear 2 times in the report is rather redundant
<marjo> bdmurray: ack
<marjo> bdmurray: you mean just list the link, right?
<bdmurray> marjo: yeah or use LP: # in the hopes that everyone uses mutt and terminator ;-)
<marjo> bdmurray: can't rely on that hope
<marjo> folks: any new topics for today?
<marjo> any other questions?
<sbeattie> thanks ara and jamesw for pushing a new version of ubuntu-qa-tools into lucid.
<marjo> sbeattie: thx for doing the fixes
<bdmurray> I'd still like to remove the dependency on python-launchpad-bugs in it
<marjo> bdmurray: is there already a bug report on that enhancement?
<bdmurray> marjo: its not an enhancement per se but about getting python-launchpad-bugs out of the archive
<marjo> bdmurray: ack
<bdmurray> and that is bug 552953
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 552953 in python-launchpad-bugs "launchpadbugs should be deprecated or removed from ubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/552953
<marjo> ah
<marjo> thx
<sbeattie> is there anything in the package that actually uses it still?
<bdmurray> yes, but we could just remove it as nobody uses it afaik
<bdmurray> I think only check-needs-packaging uses it
<bdmurray> oh right and lpl_common.py uses http_connection just a wee bit
<bdmurray> just for firefox cookie processing
<bdmurray> I don't think I'm in a position to do anything about that though
<marjo> sbeattie, bdmurray: any action item appropriate for this topic?
<sbeattie> bdmurray: I'll help look at it after this meeting.
<bdmurray> sbeattie: cool, thanks
<marjo> sbeattie: thx
<bdmurray> rewrite or remove check-needs-packaging from ubuntu-qa-tools
<bdmurray> rewrite cookie processing in lpl_common.py not to use python-launchpad-bugs
<bdmurray> remove the dependecny on py-lp-b in ubuntu-qa-tools
<bdmurray> upload new ubuntu-qa-tools
<marjo_> sorry folks; i seem to be having network problems today
<marjo_> if there are no other topics, i propose we adjourn the meeting
<marjo_> going once
<marjo_> going twice
<marjo_> meeting adjourned
<marjo_> thx all!
<fader_> Thanks all
<pedro_> thanks
<marjo_> #endmeeting
<schwuk> thanks
<marjo_> #endmeeting
<marjo> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:37.
 * Lns waves to everyone
 * bencrisford waves back to Lns
<bencrisford> weve got half an hour yet havent we?
<Lns> Did I miss anything? Seems like everyone is pretty quiet.. hehe
<bencrisford> Lns: meeting aint for another 20 minutes
<bencrisford> i think anyway :/
<bencrisford> :P
<Lns> oh really?? I thought it was 40min. ago..keeps changing on me hehe
<Lns> stupid dst ;)
<Lns> the world just needs to switch to gmt!
<bencrisford> i know!
<bencrisford> the clocks went forward for us a few weeks ago
<bencrisford> so im used to it now
<Lns> hehe
<highvoltage> Good evening
<Lns> hi highvoltage
<alkisg> Hi people
<grantbow> hello
<highvoltage> Agenda is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda as usual
<bencrisford> hey
<mhall119> hey, I made one on time
<mhall119> o/
<Lns> mhall119: ;)
<highvoltage> heh, yay!
<stgraber> just finishing something, will be there in 5 min
<bencrisford> mhall119: :)
<highvoltage> ok, I'll give a technical summary from my side so long
<highvoltage>  * We got mhall119's Qimo packages in Lucid!
<mhall119> yay!
<highvoltage> I didn't actually think we'd made it since feature freeze and beta2 freeze, etc is over, but the archive admins were quite great and mhall119 did a good job of staying in touch with them
<bencrisford> :D
 * bencrisford is happy for mhall119
<highvoltage> we also have the ltsp installer and netbook installer working from the livecd now
<highvoltage> it was our biggest goal for lucid, it won't work on todays build though, but it should be fine from tomorrow's build onwards
<highvoltage> If you guys could download and test it that would be AWESOME
 * mhall119 is happy for me too
<highvoltage> we have a small window where we can still make fixes if necessary and I'd like us to take advantage of that before it's finally released
<mhall119> and happy for Qimo
<highvoltage> alkisg: I'd especially like some of your feedback on the live stuff, I know you've done some things there so your input is especially valuable :)
<alkisg> highvoltage: when's the deadline for fixes? I'm a little pressed this period, but I'll try to test it...
<alkisg> Tomorrow? FF?
<highvoltage> alkisg: yes, basically
<alkisg> Ugh, sorry I'll be on a trip for the next 4 days so I'm not sure if I'll be able to test :(
<highvoltage> alkisg: although I'm quite confident that we'll be able to do another artwork upload since we're waiting on Canonical for the new Logo
<alkisg> Nice
<highvoltage> alkisg: and by chance, our livecd stuff is in the artwork package
<alkisg> Heh :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: so if we need to fix something for the ltsp installer stuff then we can still get it in
<alkisg> Gotcha
<bencrisford> tommorrow is the deadline for fixes?  whoa is that ubuntu-wide?
 * stgraber waves
<mhall119> lucid-wide
<highvoltage> alkisg: but I don't want to put unnecessary pressure on you, if you can't, then no problem :)
<bencrisford> argh, its gonna be a long night :'(
<highvoltage> bencrisford: yep, the archive freezes up and only very serious changes are allowd
<highvoltage> *allowed
<bencrisford> that qcad bug isnt serious, but its bloody annoying
 * alkisg starts downloading and will rsync tomorrow if he can find a net connection...
<bencrisford> i hope i can sort it..
<highvoltage> bencrisford: fixes will still go into -updates and -security and -backports as needed
<bencrisford> my qcad one is about missing menu entries :/
<bencrisford> but it isnt as simple as i thought
<mhall119> highvoltage: are there going to be edubuntu planning sessions at UDS?
<highvoltage> mhall119: for maverick, I anticipate there being many
<mhall119> good, I'll try to join on IRC
<highvoltage> we only had one or two sessions for Lucid, but that's because we already had a good idea of what we wanted to do for Lucid
<mhall119> and you guys did a damn good job with it too
<highvoltage> for maverick I have quite a long list of wishlist items, I guess it will require quite a bit of evaluation for feasability and deciding what we can realistically do for maverick
<bencrisford> i dont know if ill be around on irc during the day on uds week
<bencrisford> that sucks
<highvoltage> there's also a lot of extending and fixing of the work already done in lucid
<highvoltage> mhall119: thanks, that's really appreciated
<highvoltage> for example, when you install Edubuntu in Lucid, you get two icons on your desktop that says "Install LTSP" and "Install Netbook Interface" after installation which allows you do those
<highvoltage> the problem is that it doesn't use preseeds and you can't automate that quite yet, ideally we want that as a plugin in ubiquity with more options than we do now, and make it all pre-seedable
<highvoltage> I think that the moment lucid is released, our website is running nicely etc, then we should start planning for maverick, so by the time we get to the uds sessions we know what we want to discuss
<highvoltage> I might also have to participate remotely due to visa issues (canadian embassy has my passport atm and I'm not sure I'll have it back in time to apply for belgian visa)
<highvoltage> Anything else technical though before we move on?
<stgraber> nope
<bencrisford> dont think so :)
<highvoltage> I talked to Hedgemadge earlier about the website, the to-do items aren't all that much, she's going to put up some infrastructure (like the mail->forum gateway) up on her server so long until we have somewhere else to run it
<highvoltage> (like the canonical server the site is running on atm)
<highvoltage> besides that it's mostly logo/branding changes
<highvoltage> so when we get the logos from canonical we can finalise our artwork package and also the website
<stgraber> sounds good
<highvoltage> bencrisford: can you tell us about the changes made in the advocacy group?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: sure :)
<highvoltage> (and the other things you've been doing the last weel :) )
<mhall119> highvoltage: is the website's source in launchpad?
<bencrisford> over the last week ive been doing some stuff to organise the advocacy team, because i think that its a really important thing to get sorted at the moment
<highvoltage> mhall119: I believe so, I don't have a link handy but I think it is
<bencrisford> because there's no sense working hard on edubuntu if we cant get users :/
<bencrisford> or contributors for that matter
<bencrisford> ive been trying to organise the team on launchpad
<bencrisford> highvoltage and I decided it would be best to completely start afresh and de-activate all members
<bencrisford> so i did, and sent a message explaining and inviting them to rejoin if interested (as suggested by highvoltage)
<mhall119> I like the idea of having a team for contributors who are not ubuntu members
<highvoltage> yes they also got a notification message with an explanation and an invite to re-apply
<bencrisford> i also accepted the recent applicants and have tried to contact them
<bencrisford> including grantbow and rockstar
<bencrisford> who i have already spoken to
<highvoltage> well, all the edubuntu teams (except for edubuntu-members and edubuntu-council) are open for people who are not ubuntu members
 * grantbow waves
<highvoltage> hi grantbow
<stgraber> hey grantbow
<bencrisford> also before i went to germany last week i set up a bzr branch on the team for sharing marketing materials etc
 * mhall119 didn't know there are other edubuntu teams
<bencrisford> mhall119: if anything there are too many
<highvoltage> heh, indeed
<highvoltage> at one stage, all the teams were basically maintained by 1 or 2 people, it didn't work out so well
<bencrisford> once lucid is release id quite like to work with the team to create some marketing matrial
<bencrisford> that can distributed by locos
<bencrisford> highvoltage: i found another one still like that today
<bencrisford> i think it was an official one
<highvoltage> I like that we have a council now and also some specific people taking ownership of some of the specific groups (like bencrisford with the advocacy team, and Hedgemadge and dhillion-v10 with the webesite team)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: ah yes the school support one?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: sounds right
<bencrisford> i might have pinged you about it
<highvoltage> that was one that cbx33 started I think, we should probably look at it and decide whether it should be revived or disbanded
<bencrisford> highvoltage: i found that alot of applicants to the advoc team were members of it
<bencrisford> another thing i wanted to talk about is getting contributors
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I think what sometimes happen is, someone wants to contribute to edubuntu so they just apply to all the teams meaning to contribute to most of them at some point
<bencrisford> because looking at the applicants to the advoc team, alot of them were not members of any other teams, and didnt even have a public addres
<bencrisford> so alot of people have just joined lp in order to help edubuntu
<bencrisford> i think we need to focus on getting these people involved
<bencrisford> because people internally in ubuntu are way to busy to do anything
<bencrisford> highvoltage: i did see a bit of that as well
<bencrisford> but i was checking out the applicants expecting to see a long list of teams
<bencrisford> and i didnt see anything
<highvoltage> bencrisford: when we have just a bit more regular contributors, maybe we should start a mentoring program for people who would want to contribute?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: its a good idea yes, but we need alot of experienced regular contributors
<highvoltage> mhall119 has been really patient and willing to learn packaging, I'm sure he'll do a great job of teaching someone else to do it if he wants to :)
<mhall119> heh, once I figure it out anyway
<mhall119> right now I can only make non-compiled, non-program packages
<bencrisford> it would definately work on a small scale if we had enough mentors
<bencrisford> mhall119: thats more than i can do :P
<mhall119> but I'd be happy to mentor on some programming
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I think if the ratio of new contributors to experienced ones are ok, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem doing mentoring, but yes I agree we probably wouldn't be able to cope with 10 new very green contributors who ware very eager to contribute at this stage
<bencrisford> i can debdiff :P but only just
<bencrisford> highvoltage: yeah
<mhall119> bencrisford: I just learned how to do that yesterday ;)
<bencrisford> mhall119: when i was around before, LaserJock really helped me with all that stuff :)
<highvoltage> heh, I was jut about to ask where bencrisford was with that yesterday :)
<bencrisford> i think my first bug was under his supervision
<mhall119> yeah, he was a good guy
<highvoltage> yeah LaserJock gave me a lot of good tips and advice before as well
<highvoltage> (especially with all the Debian acronyms like ITP, BTS, etc)
<bencrisford> i still follow the howtofix page on the wiki when i debdiff and stuff, but im getting more and more confident :)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: you also added "Bzr Branch" to the agenda, I assume that's for the advocacy branch?
<bencrisford> yeah
<bencrisford> i did briefly mention it i think
<bencrisford> at 20:26:18 (but thats BST) :/
<highvoltage> oh yes, right
<highvoltage> I guess that's it for the agenda then :)
<highvoltage> anything else that should be added (I guess I should've asked that at the beginning ;))
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I'm not sure if I perhaps cut you off a bit on the advocacy stuff, it there's something more you wanted to say about it please don't let me stop you
<highvoltage> I think it's universally accepted in our team that we need to expand though
<bencrisford> highvoltage: im all done dont worry :)
<mhall119> highvoltage: where's the current wishlist for Maverick?
<highvoltage> mhall119: in a tomboy note on my pc!
<stgraber> I don't really think we have one
<grantbow> can someone create a wiki page?
<highvoltage> mhall119: I'll paste it here to give you an idea, it's uncensorred and unfiltered...
<highvoltage> Plymouth text-fallbacks
<stgraber> we also have some notes on gobby (most of it on gobby.ubuntu.com, not sure if we have notes on the internal one)
<highvoltage> â¢ Edubuntu chrootless livecd?
<highvoltage> â¢ Edubuntu remote network installer
<mhall119> highvoltage: damn, ubuntu one really needs note sharing
<highvoltage> â¢ Quite down PXELinux
<highvoltage> â¢ Split LTSP packages so that scripts is not in main package
<highvoltage> â¢ Split edubuntu-artwork package to edubuntu-art, edubuntu-livecd and edubuntu-settings
<highvoltage> â¢ Remove less fonts at end of the installation (takes quite long currently)
<highvoltage> â¢ Sugar
<highvoltage> â¢ http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/04/08/making-programming-easier-for-kids-with-pyjunior
<mhall119> highvoltage: maybe copy/paste to a wiki page?
<highvoltage> mhall119: there's also Snowy!
<mhall119> snowy?
<stgraber> highvoltage: Split LTSP packages so that scripts is not in main package ?? what's that one ;)
<highvoltage> mhall119: a server for tomboy with a snazzy web interface
<highvoltage> mhall119: currently in development though
<mhall119> ah
<mhall119> I like the ubuntu one sync
<highvoltage> stgraber: that's about splitting the ltsp package so that you can install just the ltsp scripts without installing the entire ltsp
<stgraber> highvoltage: ah right, that's for lamont ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: for doing an ltsp-build-image on a build env.... yes for lamont :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: if I'm not mistaken there's a bug filed for that already too
 * lamont waves
<highvoltage> hi lamont!
<lamont> I recall filing such a bug, yes
<highvoltage> see we don't forget about you :)
<mhall119> who's lamont?
<highvoltage> so, homework assignments for everyone: look at edubuntu as it is and make up your own wishlists of things you think we can realistically get into maverick
<highvoltage> next week we can compare notes and put it into a gobby document that can go on to the wiki
<lamont> mhall119: loose canon about town.  or something like that
<highvoltage> mhall119: lamont is one of the Canonical sysadmins (amongst other things, and apologies if I got that wrong) who helped us with getting the live ltsp chroot on the disc, since we don't have direct access to the build servers
<mhall119> ah, cool
<lamont> highvoltage: these days, the proper title is "Ubuntu Operational Sys Admin"
<mhall119> so he's the guy I need to bribe to get qimo on the build servers
<highvoltage> lamont: cool, I was close then :)
<highvoltage> I guess I'd also add Schooltool to the list
<lamont> qimo?
<mhall119> http://www.qimo4kids.com
<lamont> as in package bootstraps?  yeah, those are totally my babies
<mhall119> ubuntu-based, packages in Universe
<nixternal> oi oi
<highvoltage> we couldn't get it in for lucid since there's been a lot of zope packages that didn't make it in in time
<nixternal> sorry, i am a bit busy with some team stuff and have been afk for 2 weeks...i will try to catch up later tonight
<highvoltage> lamont: yeah qimo is a distribution on it's own which is ubuntu-based, but since it's edu-related we got it into the archives so that ubuntu users can easily install it
<lamont> if it's just package uploads, MOTU.  if it needs manual handholding, well, dammit quit making circularly dependent packages, or yeah, rt.ubuntu.com
<lamont> oh
<highvoltage> nixternal: great! I'll also post a summary to the list later on
<mhall119> I need to figure out seeding and bootstrapping
<mhall119> to make my own ISO's, instead of modifying the ones Xubuntu releases
<highvoltage> mhall119: for qimo? I wouldn't really bother, there's better ways to make isos for something like qimo, I can give you some scripts if you want
<mhall119> highvoltage: ah, okay
<mhall119> I just want to have daily/weekly builds done automatically, rather than everything being hand-customized
<highvoltage> cool
<mhall119> this cycle, by the time I was able to finish working on an alpha, the next one was already released
<mhall119> I'm currently half-way through working on my beta1 ISO
<mhall119> had to skip Alpha 3 all together
<highvoltage> mhall119: yes, customizing an existing disc for something once-off is ok, but for a long-term project you really need something more automated and sustainable
<mhall119> having packages has/will help with that some
<highvoltage> *nod*
<mhall119> but I need to setup things like package branches in bzr
<mhall119> to maintain those
<highvoltage> that's also something I think we should do with the edubuntu packages
<grantbow> maybe use the same system as quickly
<highvoltage> it will make it very easy for non-edubuntu-dev people to submit patches, etc
<highvoltage> grantbow: what does quickly use?
<grantbow> s/system/conventions/
<grantbow> bzr
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> I first came across bzr for hosting packaging with ltsp-cluster
<highvoltage> it only has a slight learning curve and it works very well
 * stgraber has all its packaging in bzr, either in team-owned repository or in his personal branches
<highvoltage> yeah, and having external branches is nice for people who'd like to make specific changes to some of the packages, like mhall119 with the qimo packages
<highvoltage> we have 3 minutes left, anything else before we finish off?
<alkisg> stgraber: it seems that the udhcpc clientid problem is wider than I thought, it also affects cisco routers etc... could we patch udhcpc?
<highvoltage> ok that's that then, we can take the rest to #edubunt
<highvoltage> *#edubuntu
<highvoltage> thanks everyone you are all rockstars
<alkisg> Thanks all
<grantbow> thanks for the meeting everyone
<highvoltage> *BONG*
<stgraber> alkisg: not for lucid I'm affraid
<highvoltage> (oh yes someone said I should change it to "*GONG*" since "bong" means something entirely different in North America)
<alkisg> Sure, but if it is something we can do, I can propose a patch for it in few days...
<alkisg> (and I'll just upload it to my ppa for my users)
<stgraber> you can always send patches ;)
<alkisg> Heh, sure, but I don't like spending days on things that have no chance to be accepted :)
<alkisg> k, thanks
<mhall119> highvoltage: wait, you meant something different by it?
<highvoltage> mhall119: yes, it's the gong I hit to signify the end of the meeting :)
<mhall119> that's so much less entertaining
<highvoltage> mhall119: not something that we smoke after meetings :)
<mhall119> lol
<highvoltage> mhall119: but if you'd rather imagine that then I won't hold it against you :)
<bencrisford> highvoltage: im with mhall119 on this one, bong is far more interesting
<highvoltage> bencrisford: ok, by popular request it will remain bong then
<bencrisford> highvoltage: lol :)
<bencrisford> highvoltage: maybe we should change to gong..  :P edubuntu is meant to be aimed at young children
<highvoltage> bencrisford: indeed :)
<bencrisford> dont want them getting ideas
<lamont> highvoltage: I'm reminded of The Gong Show
<highvoltage> lamont: never had it here, I'm not familiar with it
<highvoltage> (although I have early childhood memories of someone hitting a gong in some gameshow)
<lamont> that's the gameshow
<ScottK> Technically the Gong Show was a game show.
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-15
<sammydee> could someone help me with a ubuntu relate dquestion?
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-16
 * marjo waves
 * ttx waves
<pitti> hai
<seb128> hey
<jdstrand> o/
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-04-16
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-04-16
 * asac waves
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Previous actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Previous actions
<slangasek>   * rickspencer to ask designers about new Edubuntu logo
<slangasek>   * doko to grep the archive for codecs.open in python code, to find other packages broken by http://bugs.python.org/issue691291
<slangasek>   * ScottK, slangasek to review python sync/merge candidates (INPROGRESS)
<slangasek>   * marjo to make sure the outstanding optional testcases for beta2 get tested this week
<slangasek>   * ogasawara to triage bug #557429 for final (DONE)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557429 in mdadm "array with conflicting changes is assembled with data corruption/silent loss" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557429
<slangasek>   * pitti to get discussion of SRU extension for GNOME, KDE, OOo, OpenJDK point releases on UDS agenda
<slangasek>   * Riddell to investigate the lingering Kubuntu installer issues
<slangasek>   * ScottK to put out a call for Kubuntu daily ISO testing
<pitti> slangasek: SRU extension is on the agenda
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/BlueprintList
<slangasek> how'd we do on the other action items?
<marjo> slangasek: Ara working with dpm and ttx to cover some optional test cases.
<slangasek> great
<slangasek> ScottK, Riddell: how have we fared with the Kubuntu installer?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<marjo> HW Testing (automated)
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Netbooks:
<marjo>    passed:   13 (93%) failed:    0 ( 0%) untested:  1 ( 7%)
<marjo> Laptops:
<marjo>    passed:   39 (90%) failed:    3 ( 7%) untested:  1 ( 3%)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Servers:
<marjo>    passed:   64 (94%) failed:    0 ( 0%) untested:  4 ( 6%)
<marjo> Desktops:
<marjo>    passed:   13 (100%) failed:    0 (  0%) untested:  0 (  0%)
<marjo> HW Testing (manual)
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/milestones/lucid/post-beta.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/milestones/lucid/post-beta.html
<marjo> passed: 45 (76%)    failed: 14 (24%)
<marjo> Bugs will be reported on all failures
<fader_> (Just to clarify, bugs have been reported for all failures; some just have not been triaged yet)
<marjo> fader: thx for clarification
<marjo> ISO Testing Bugs Status
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~marjomercado/isotestingbugs.html
<marjo> 558382	Partitioner throws "Unable to satisfy all constraints" when trying to use previously created partitions - cjwatson to investigate
<marjo> 557930	[Lucid Beta2] After first boot Live Kubuntu Netbook doesn't start X and fallback to a textual terminal - pedro to work with Riddell
<marjo> 557807	Offers video resultions not actually supported on Lucid Intel 865G - brcye investigatin
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~marjomercado/isotestingbugs.html
<marjo> 556962	kernel BUG at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.32/drivers/gpu/drm/drm_fops.c:146! - jfo to triage
<marjo> slangasek: that's it from QA team, unless there are questions
<marjo> slangasek: thx
<slangasek> marjo: what were the selection criteria for the 4 bugs you pasted?  there are several more bugs on the isotestingbugs page
<marjo> slangasek: i just pointed out the "new" bugs
<marjo> for emphasis
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> no other questions here; anyone else?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> marjo: thanks
<slangasek> ttx: hi
<ttx> o/
<ttx> Updated team status at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> Bugs status:
<ttx> Bugs targeted to release:
<ttx> bug 563428 and bug 563434
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563428 in python-cloudfiles "Rename requested" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563428
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563434 in python-cloudservers "Rename request" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563434
<ttx> This is about consistency in our cloud offering, will be fixed Monday at the latest
<ttx> Other Lucid RC bugs :
<ttx> bug 532733
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532733
<ttx> lacking input from ogra and the reporter team
<ttx> bug 513273
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 513273 in vgabios "kvm with -vga std is broken since karmic" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/513273
<ttx> in progress
<ogra> ttx, huh ?
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/533029 -- new FFe review needed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 533029 in autofs5 "[FFE] autofs5-ldap doesn't work immediately after bootup" [High,Triaged]
<ogra> i'm giving input the whole day
<ttx> ogra: ah, recently ?
 * ogra didnt do anything else but testing for that bug since he got up
<ogra> yep
<ttx> ah
<ttx> sorry about that, I missed that
<ogra> and i'm just done with the last combo of options
<ttx> so it should msee movement now :)
<ogra> doesnt fix anything
<ttx> bug 552360 -- fix just committed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 552360 in squid "package squid 2.7.STABLE7-1ubuntu11 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/552360
<ttx> bug 563084 -- fix just committed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563084 in dbconfig-common "bacula-director-pgsql does not install cleanly with db-config" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563084
<ttx> bug 563053 -- in progress, hopefully done today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563053 in mythplugins "Please remove Mysql 5.0 from the archive for lucid." [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563053
<pitti> ttx: I just reviewed that
<ttx> the page also lists the identified lucid targets of opportunities
<pitti> there are 4 remaining rdepends
<pitti> two of which are mythtv, which I woudln't like to break without further coordination with superm
<ttx> zul ^
<ttx> On the specs side, a few work items left :
<ttx> erver-lucid-uec-testing (31%) On track, not affected by freeze, mostly about testing RC and final milestones
<zul> ttx: next on my list
<ttx> server-lucid-apt-mirror-ec2 (0%) Blocked on IS (mirror deployment in progress), testing-only and not affected by freeze
<ttx> server-lucid-puppet-uec-ec2-integration (44%) Hope to commit more testsuite fixes, remaining items are doc-only and not affected by freeze
<ttx> RC Bugs affecting server, in other teams:
<ttx> bug 559582
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 559582 in apt "Upgrade from karmic to lucid failes with Internal Error, Could not perform immediate configuration (2) on mountall" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/559582
<ttx> I think mvo is on top of this one
<ttx> bug 563916 -- we'll probably releasenote it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563916 in plymouth "[details.so] No prompt for [S]kip or [M]anual recovery on server boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563916
<ttx> which leaves bug 557429, that you put on the agenda
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557429 in mdadm "array with conflicting changes is assembled with data corruption/silent loss" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557429
<mvo> ttx: I think that is fixed now, may not be in the archive yet, haven't checked
<slangasek> ttx: yes - can anyone on your team work on that, or does it need to be Foundations instead?
<jdstrand> that one is possibly not as dire as it sounds
<slangasek> jdstrand: oh?
<ttx> slangasek: we kinda lost our last specialists recently, but if you're overworked, that's probably the one with the most overlap between our teams
<jdstrand> at least the wording in release notes makes it seem a bigger failure
<jdstrand> I reported that bug, so I get all the comments on it now
<jdstrand> the issue is specifically that if you remove one disk, it comes up degraded (fine)
<jdstrand> if you remove that disk, and add the other one, it comes up degraded (fine)
<jdstrand> but if you add back the first, it comes up in sync
<ttx> slangasek: I just doubt anyone in our team has sufficient expertise to fix mdadm
<jdstrand> so you have two disks that were independently updated and removed, etc
<jdstrand> there is obviously a bug, and it needs to be fixed, but it is probably not a common operation
<ttx> jdstrand: is that a regression ?
<jdstrand> (I don't have numbers to justify that statement)
<jdstrand> ttx: actually, no
<jdstrand> the guy who jumped on it and talked to updated linux-raid discovered it existed in karmic and earlier
<jdstrand> s/updated/upstream/
<ttx> ok, makes more sense to me
<slangasek> jdstrand: not common, but as serious as I understood it to be...
<cjwatson> we have very little mdadm expertise in foundations either, I fear
<jdstrand> it just so happens that ext3 kinda scooted around it by happenstance
<jdstrand> ext4 hits it though
<slangasek> hmm? how is it filesystem-dependent?
<ttx> cjwatson: yes, but you're overrall technically proficient :P
<jdstrand> slangasek: oh, it is serious for sure-- total data loss
<jdstrand> slangasek: it isn't technically fs independant-- there is something about ext3 that just by pure luck avoids it
<slangasek> ttx: between the installer and plymouth/mountall, I think Foundations is quite busy until release; if someone on Server could take lead on this, I think that would be for the best
<jdstrand> I don't have the details-- I'm not an mdadm expert-- I've just been following the bug
<ttx> slangasek: ok, we'll do our best.
<ttx> slangasek: I'll move it into our land at the top of that file
<ttx> that's all for me
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek> anyone else have questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> ttx: thanks
<slangasek> asac: hi
<asac> hi!
<asac> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<asac> so yeah. all specs done \o/ ... work item trackker is a bit lagging still
<asac> already cleaned that up
<asac> we uploaded openoffice with -marm and are hoping that that now works (we confirmed locally)
<asac> main problem we are now facing is really just omap
<asac> in particular "endless mountall+fsck loop on batteryless systems (e.g. beagle) see bug 563618"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563618 in util-linux "Ignoring a broken clock results in infinite reboots; not ignoring results in fsck failure; no solution to this problem" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563618
<asac> imx/dove are in great shape still ... so we are ready for release on that front
<asac> besides a few RC bugs ;)
<asac> we are waiting for archive to settle before we can try out potential workaround for "532733: qemu-kvm "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed" "
<asac> maximus we havent found to investigate and are hoping for help on desktop team still
<asac> bug 528887 and bug 522858
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528887 in maximus "maximus does not give default focus to newly started apps in combination with efl launcher" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528887
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 522858 in maximus "Sometimes app windows come up undecorated, unselectable, and not full screen" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522858
<asac> and i am investigating our firefox rendering bug on armel my self (currently doing debug builds etc. ... that take a bit)
<asac> bug 443147 that is
<slangasek> I'm very unlikely to accept changes for 563618 in final - this code has flip-flopped far too many times for me to believe that someone is going to find a magic, regression-free solution to the problem in the next 2 weeks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443147 in firefox "Firefox on ARM inappropriately adds scroll bars to many frames and images" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443147
<asac> slangasek: hmm.
<ogra> slangasek, i just posted a workaround this second :)
<asac> slangasek: so in the bug there is a current workaround approach
<asac> which does ugly stuff for BROKEN_CLOCK in initramfs ;)
<asac> maybe check the bug
<slangasek> if this is blocking validation of the OMAP images, I think ogra needs to hook up a battery as someone suggested on IRC
<slangasek> ok, I'll take a look today, but I'm very hesitant to make changes here
<ogra> slangasek, its not bugging me, i can edit fstab to not check
<asac> ok. if you are aware of the current suggested approach and say no way, thats fine i guess
<ogra> slangasek, it will bug all other users though
<asac> right ... and we expect omap to be the first image that really gets good community
<ogra> xactly
<asac> so lets see if we can get the hacky workaround going. feels safe from what i see (if it works)
<asac> but your say
<ogra> indeed i can put up a wikipage that tells you how to edit /etc/fstab and /lib/init/fstab
<asac> right. we probably can survive ;)
<ogra> but danger is that people keep it that way and end up with corrupt filesystems
<slangasek> asac: who have you reached out to for help on maximus?
<asac> slangasek: desktop team through release meeting and didrocks directly
<asac> i can poke harder
<asac> or after firefox is fixed look on my own
<pitti> right, this doesn't really sound like an arm specific problem, or is it?
<pitti> (well, at least I never saw it myself)
<asac> pitti: its not arm specific
<slangasek> assigned the bugs to didrocks
<pitti> right, I think he can help with this
<asac> pitti: use the 2d launcher to see it ... if you dont have the bandwidth to help out on that it will fall back to us
<pitti> we don't have so many RC bugs any more
<asac> right. thats what i hoped ;)
<pitti> asac: hm, I should try that again; last time I tried the 2d launcher it still crashed right away
<asac> pitti: heh. that should work now. and all that dont have proper 3d get the 2d launcher now by default for netbook
<asac> pitti: if you have problems let us know
<asac> ... ok thats it from my side
<asac> any questions?
<ogra> just rip out your 3D chip from your netbook :)
<slangasek> asac: no mention of bug #559301?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 559301 in partman-uboot "partman-uboot needs to handle omap installs" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/559301
<pitti> ogra: kvm! :-)
<slangasek> oh, it's been marked invalid
<asac> yes
<slangasek> ok then
<asac> thats what i found when preparing the report ;)
<ogra> slangasek, no, you reviewed flash-kernel :)
<asac> so i didnt want to raise that again ;)
<ogra> slangasek, we dont fiddle with /boot anymore but use NAND
<slangasek> no other questions here
<asac> yay for NAND
<slangasek> anyone else?
 * ogra likes to note that omap might still show issues
<ogra> while all pieces were tested separately there was no fully built image yet with the bits
<asac> ogra: right. but they come as we go ;)
<asac> no need to atlk about things that might happen ... even if we know that something is likely to happen ;)
<ogra> if the buildds cope tonight should be the first one with all pieces in it
<asac> right
<ogra> just wanted to warn :)
<asac> ok guess no other questions. thanks!
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<slangasek> asac, ogra: thanks
<apw> o/
<slangasek> apw: hi
<apw> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the items called out in the agenda.  Most of the open work-items items are not release related at this time:
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<apw> On the items pulled out on the agenda, the configuration review just waits the delivery of the final configuration annoucenement which has been delayed due to workload.  Of the bugs, the first one we have patches and testing is looking good, given the timing it is proposed we shoot for an early SRU for that.  The second we do not yet have root cause so I have also pushed that to lucid-updates.
<apw> We have had to break the kernel freeze to pull in some KMS blacklist patches for a trio if i8xx graphics driver which work much better with UMS, and also for some ATI Radeon based server which were booting to blank screens.  These kernels are building now.  All (5!) others are in and built.
<apw> We have one other more serious issue with Dell systems which overheat, patches for this have been evolving and the latest look good.  Testing on problematic MacBooks is ongoing to confirm the fix.  As we do not yet have confirmation of the fix and the machine affected boot well enough to perform an update we are proposing to SRU that fix when its complete.
<apw> <done>
<slangasek> apw: what's the bug number for the dell heat problem?
 * apw finds
<apw> bug #526354
<pitti> hm, TBH I'd rather try to squeeze that into final if possible (and resonable wrt. regression potential)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 526354 in linux "[Dell Studio 1537] temperature sensors and fan stop working following suspend/resume" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/526354
<pitti> people run live CDs, or don't upgrade right away, etc.
<apw> pitti, it only occurs following a s/r as far as i can tell, it took me ages to realise thats what it was
<pitti> ah
<apw> obviously its release teams call, but i don't think we'll have non-regression confidence on this one till early next week
<pitti> apw: we might disable s/r on those machines as a workaround if the kernel fix doesn't land in final, perhaps?
<pitti> (pm-utils hook)
<apw> this is the aborted fix which broke thinkpads and macbooks so i am reticent to break them all again
<pitti> oh, I see :)
<slangasek> pitti: can you take an action for the pm-utils hook?
<apw> yeah thats not a bad idea, i am not 100% sure of all the models affected
<pitti> slangasek: I'm happy to do that once I'm told which models to blacklist it on
<apw> i know of at least 3 dells which are affected, we could start with those i guess
<slangasek> [ACTION] pitti to investigate pm-utils hook for final to disable s/r on dells affected by bug #526354
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to investigate pm-utils hook for final to disable s/r on dells affected by bug #526354
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 526354 in linux "[Dell Studio 1537] temperature sensors and fan stop working following suspend/resume" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/526354
<slangasek> alright - anything else?
<apw> notihgn here
<slangasek> apw: how soon after release are you expecting the first SRU to hit?  there are definitely some Bugs Of Interest in the list
<apw> normally we aim for 7 days after so scoop up as much as possible of the instant bugs
<slangasek> ok
<apw> if you have BOI that you think should be in there, make sure i am aware of the numbers
<slangasek> apw: they're all targeted and milestoned to lucid-updates - I'm not tracking them more specifically than that
<apw> i will start uploading ~preN kernels shortly to the kernel preproposed PPA as they accumulate
<apw> slangasek, good enough thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<slangasek> apw: thanks
<slangasek> pitti: hi
<pitti> usual weekly summary and details about RC bugs are on
<pitti> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> just two WIs left for final, of which one does not affect the distro (Launchpad bug filing page update) and the other is to disable the "File a bug" menu entry, which is prepared, but should happen only before the release candidate
<pitti> this week we got a great number of RC and non-RC bugs fixed; there are two uploads in unapproved which fix a couple of bugs which really ought to hit final for a good first-time ubuntuone installation, and for fixing a rather embarrassing CD detection problem
<pitti> the remaining open RC bugs (5) are good SRU targets and do no break installation, so I'm relatively positive that we will get a good release at this point
<pitti> (I had one "except that one", but it just got fixed in bzr by the Kubuntu guys,  thanks!)
<pitti> so, I think we just earned two more from this meeting, I'll add them to our page in due course
<Riddell> Kubuntu?
<pitti> please
<Riddell>  * daily's looking in decent shape for RC
<Riddell>  * New logo in and everyone happy
<Riddell>  * tinyurl.com/yjybcx9 milestoned bugs down to three (once Ubiquity uploaded)
<Riddell> some ubiquity bugs needs more checking though
<cjwatson> which ones?
<Riddell> bug 538505 amichair has said he'll look into, but we can live with it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538505 in ubiquity "Extremely slow reponsiveness / high CPU usage" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538505
<cjwatson> yeah, I agree with your assessment
<Riddell> bug 538505 I couldn't recreate on virtualbox 538505
<Riddell> I'll try it on real hardware later
<cjwatson> 538505 538505 538505
<cjwatson> sorry :)
<Riddell> bug 563309
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563309 in ubiquity "ubiquity crashes on manual disc setup" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563309
<Riddell> that's the one
<slangasek> Riddell: on kdesdk, there's also a recommends: on optipng, same problem - do you want to look at that Recommends as well and decide which way to go before I accept kdesdk, and save us some build time?
<cjwatson> I guess that's one I can look at
<cjwatson> bit of an art to debugging those state machine assertions
<Riddell> and bug 528678 I need to check although installing in French worked fine last I tried
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528678 in ubiquity "UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 13: ordinal not in range(128)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528678
<Riddell> slangasek: oh fooey, will do
<Riddell> we have uploads of kdepim and kdebase-workspace outstanding
<slangasek> pitti: the ubuntuone-client upload in unapproved unfortunately breaks string freeze, dpm has nacked it and I agree with him; do you have time yet today to follow up with Chipaca, to get that change dropped?
<cjwatson> hmm, I thought 528678 had been fixed somewhere down the road, but I agree it's worth checking
<pitti> slangasek: not myself any more, but I'll delegate it to Ken
<pitti> (in fact I already talked to him)
<slangasek> pitti: was more looking for the release team side of it; ok, I'll circle around with Chipaca and Ken
<pitti> slangasek: ah; sorry, not today any more from me
<pitti> I can have a look at the queue tomorrow morning, though
<slangasek> hopefully we'll have it done before that :)
<slangasek> Riddell: when do you expect those uploads to happen?
<Riddell> slangasek: imminently
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> no other questions from me; anyone else
<slangasek> ?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
<slangasek> pitti, Riddell: thanks
<slangasek> davidbarth: hi
<davidbarth> slangasek: hi
<davidbarth> (i'm on a call at the same time, but here is the list of bugs on our list)
<davidbarth> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana/+milestone/ubuntu-10.04
<slangasek> davidbarth: I had put bug #522858 to you, thinking this was something njpatel worked on; but I guess you're off the hook for that one :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 522858 in maximus "Sometimes app windows come up undecorated, unselectable, and not full screen" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522858
<slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana/+milestone/ubuntu-10.04
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana/+milestone/ubuntu-10.04
<davidbarth> yeah, i've seen this one
<davidbarth> i don't have an answer yet, but i'll action it for sure between njpatel and DBO
<davidbarth> apart from that, so ted has been working on fixing some dbusmenu issues
<davidbarth> there is one that is still not fixed and uploaded, being:
<davidbarth> #549096	Duplicate Broadcast Icons in Indicator Applet
<davidbarth> but he's on it and hopes to have a fix for this one today
<davidbarth> seb128 has just pointed out a crasher also, we're just adding id to our bug roster
<slangasek> alright
<davidbarth> the auto-mnemonics one will be for an sru, too involved and late at this stage (that's #548652	menu mouse-scrolling broken, when themes enable gtk-auto-mnemonics)
<davidbarth> and last
<davidbarth> we've noticed an issue with the kmail patch that doesn't work great with the gnome desktop
<davidbarth> agateau is on this one since this afternoon and rushing to get a proper fix
<davidbarth> that's it for DX
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek> anyone have questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> davidbarth: thanks again
<slangasek> cjwatson: hi
<pitti> kmail> I suggested to back that out, BTW
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<cjwatson> Bug 534743 needs a patch from a dmraid expert (possibly psusi?); we have suitable people for the other bugs there
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 534743 in dmraid "dmraid causes udev event feedback loop in Lucid" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/534743
<cjwatson> (discussing on #ubuntu-devel, too)
<cjwatson> Other issues that have arisen:
<cjwatson>  * grub2 menuentry quoting change broke both pygrub and os-prober; both of those have been fixed, but it raises the possibility that there may be other programs parsing grub.cfg wrongly (e.g. GRUB menu editors?).  Unfortunately attempting to use double quotes and escape things properly appears to break grub2 for reasons as yet unclear, so we may have to live with this and fix programs like menu editors in SRUs.
<cjwatson>  * Design requested changes to the CD boot splash screen; I want to check some details of that with Mark before making the changes
<cjwatson>  * Marjo raised a partitioning constraint handling bug that seems to be still hanging around: bug 558382
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 558382 in debian-installer "Partitioner throws "Unable to satisfy all constraints" when trying to use previously created partitions" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/558382
<cjwatson>  * Bug 563117 isn't milestoned at present, but seems concerning if reproducible
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563117 in mountall "Release upgrade converts /dev/mapper entries in /etc/fstab to UUID" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563117
<cjwatson> Good news: oem-config/server appears to actually work now; we're out from under most of the pile of customer priority bugs
<cjwatson> --
<slangasek> 534743 already has a branch linked, is that one not adequate?
<cjwatson> Scott objected to it in comment 4
<cjwatson> I'm trying to find out whether that objection still stands
<slangasek> ok
<Keybuk> I'm not sure it does
<Keybuk> why is bug #563117 on mountall ?!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563117 in mountall "Release upgrade converts /dev/mapper entries in /etc/fstab to UUID" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563117
<cjwatson> "but practically speaking, dmraid disks don't have any circumstances where they emit a change event other than this, AFAICS"
<cjwatson> so that may not be an issue
<persia> Keybuk: Because alvin chose that package, and nobody has been able to figure out where it belongs yet.
<Keybuk> persia: why is it a bug?
<cjwatson> Keybuk: because kirkland muttered on #ubuntu-server that that was where he thought it lived
<Keybuk> that seems like deliberate behaviour to me
<cjwatson> I commented that it probably belonged somewhere else
<cjwatson> /dev/mapper/ names should be stable, and they're more explanatory than UUIDs
<persia> Keybuk: Renders systems unbootable with snapshots of system partitions because they share the same UUID
<Keybuk> yes, but that then wouldn't allow you to move the filesystem *off* RAID to a normal disk
<cjwatson> we've long taken the approach that we don't UUIDify names that are already stable
<Keybuk> which we want to support
<Keybuk> persia: lies.  only one emits the UUID in its event
<cjwatson> if that change was intentionally made, it might have been nice if somebody had informed the installer team
<Keybuk> cjwatson: we changed that approach in karmic iirc
<cjwatson> meanwhile, I think that upgrades should be consistent with installs
<Keybuk> I'm pretty sure you were in the BOF at the time ;)
<persia> Keybuk: OK.  Alvin tested quite a bit.
<cjwatson> I have absolutely no memory of this
<cjwatson> it is entirely new to me
<cjwatson> anyway, what's making the change on upgrade?  I couldn't find the operative code
<cjwatson> there used to be stuff in volumeid or something years ago
<Keybuk> do-release-upgrade isn't it?
<cjwatson> oh, it's in update-manager itself
<cjwatson> ?
<Keybuk> I thought we moved that stuff there, yeah
<cjwatson> nope
<cjwatson> no matches
<Keybuk> you're right that nothing calls blkid or vol_id in postinst anymore
<cjwatson> it was apparently there at one point for upgrades to hardy
<Keybuk> maybe the reporter is hallucinating
<Keybuk> and their fstab never had /dev/mapper entries <g>
<cjwatson> two hallucinations, persia reproduced it
<slangasek> I was checking an LVM-using desktop I just upgraded here and found that it has UUIDs in fstab, but the fstab is 2 years old
<cjwatson> for the record, I'm not going to change the installer for this now - can't afford the retesting time :-/
<slangasek> so that doesn't count
<slangasek> Keybuk: only one emits the UUID - ok, but which one?
<Keybuk> slangasek: whichever one kees thinks should this week, usually
<Keybuk> he's changed it at least three times ;-)
<persia> Regarding relesae-criticality: there are two trivial workarounds: a) don't snapshot system filesystems, b) edit fstab
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I've checked my changelogs, I *deleted* the fstab migration script ages ago
<slangasek> Keybuk: sure; further evidence that the /dev/mapper names are the stable ones we should use...
<Keybuk> so I'm not aware of it existing anywhere
<Keybuk> slangasek: those are set by the same rules
<slangasek> Keybuk: er, snapshots have unique lvm names, so that shouldn't be an issue
<Keybuk> anyway
<Keybuk> this is LVM :)
<Keybuk> you can make it do whatever broken things you want <g>
<slangasek> persia: if you were able to reproduce this, do you mind sending an upgrade log to the bug?
<persia> slangasek: I hadn't considered a bug when I reproduced it (some time ago), and only ack'd it when alvin was testing and reported it.  I'll see if I can get my test laptop to recognise it's HD again, and reproduce there (my test server doesn't play with LVM well).
<slangasek> ok
<persia> (if anyone with better current HW availability wants to do this before me, I shan't complain)
<slangasek> alright - anything else on Foundations?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Security team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team
<slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
<slangasek> jdstrand: hi
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> as always https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<jdstrand> nothing really new there, so I probably won't reference it again
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<jdstrand> I mentioned last week we'd be doing install audits. that didn't happen this week, but is planned for next
<slangasek> ok
<jdstrand> it seems bug #528274 stalled. I unmilestoned it-- it should probably be taken off the list
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528274 in ubuntuone-client "syncdaemon should have AppArmor profile" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528274
<slangasek> ack
<jdstrand> in other news, mvo disabled apparmor on hardy to lucid upgrades (but reenabled on reboot), to make sure that bugs in the Hardy with a new apparmor userspace and profiles won't affect the install
<jdstrand> there was a bind9 bug that prompted this, but it is resolved now
<jdstrand> (in update-manager)
<jdstrand> Other than that, we are continuing to do bug fixing and make sure lucid is up to date on security updates.
<ScottK> It's worth mentioning that yesterday was death day for clamav < 0.95 and I'm watching people in #clamav who run other distros scream and shout.  So far one Ubuntu user showed up and he'd kept the old clamd.conf by mistake.  Thanks for the security team's work on this.
<jdstrand> we are going to go through our cve-tracker to make sure lucid is in excellent shape
<slangasek> jdstrand: is it, or are you still in the process of making sure?
<jdstrand> ScottK: well, we shoved it through with some testing, but thanks really should go to you (and cemc) for your testing and thoroughness on the upgrade process
<ScottK> One Ubuntu bug to which the reply was "enable updates and upgrade."
<ScottK> Thanks
<jdstrand> slangasek: we are always triaging CVEs with up to date info, but we give a big push prior to release to make sure
<slangasek> ok
<jdstrand> slangasek: we are in the process of the big push
<slangasek> sounds good
<jdstrand> it is a little harder to keep up with the dev cycle since we don't see all the syncs and merges, etc
<jdstrand> so our tracker can lag a bit at times
<jdstrand> anyhoo, that is just a procedural thing our team does each cycle
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> anything else for security?
<jdstrand> and that is it for me, unless anyone has questions
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> jdstrand: thanks
<jdstrand> ScottK: yeah, that was a funny bug :)
<jdstrand> slangasek: sure! :)
<ScottK> Hello.
<slangasek> ScottK, sistpoty|work: hi
<sistpoty|work> hi
<ScottK> james_w get the NBS hero award.
<ScottK> get/gets
<ScottK> We're closing in on that.
<slangasek> quite!
<ScottK> I hope that main upload slow down at some point so the buildds can drain.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Do you have anything to report?
<ScottK> We need to keep up with FFe's, but I think things are in reasonable shape.
<sistpoty|work> only that ghc6 made it on armel, and I keep the queue full with rebuilds of the haskell stack :)
<pitti> the tetex NBS stuff is all removed now, too
<pitti> the rest of NBS doesn't look that worrysome any more
<sistpoty|work> others than that nothing from me
<ScottK> We still need more push on FTBFS
<sistpoty|work> s/rebuilds/give backs/
<slangasek> ScottK: is lucas's build results page the active work list for FTBFS?
<ScottK> slangasek: I think it's the best one to use.
<ScottK> It will catch any that FTBFS due to removals.
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> I still need to get the "freeze is on" mail out today, I'll include a pointer
<ScottK> doko just delivered his list in #ubuntu-release and it's not as short as I'd hoped.
<ScottK> We need a recipe for assessing those and trying to fix them.
<slangasek> hmm, yes
<slangasek> I'll follow up on that today as well
<ScottK> Great.
<slangasek> anything else before we adjourn?
<ScottK> I don't think so.
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:37.
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<pitti> thanks everyone
<apw> slangasek, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-17
<dutchie> humphreybc: I am now
<humphreybc> groovy
<ubuntujenkins> hello humphreybc
<humphreybc> it's 2200 UTC so let's kick off!
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, no. Disembodied comment!
<humphreybc> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:00. The chair is humphreybc.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<humphreybc> now where's that pad
<humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings
<humphreybc> so here's the agenda
<Red_HamsterX> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/f0VIdaLXWZ This one?
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/f0VIdaLXWZ This one?
<humphreybc> here's the pad we'll be using that godbyk and I prepared earlier
<humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/MaiZTb4Fjd
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/MaiZTb4Fjd
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: wrong meeting :-)
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: nope that'll be for the Quickshot meeting in 22 hours :P
<Red_HamsterX> ...Oh.
<dutchie> humphreybc: you know you can get nice URLs by going to them when you create the pad?
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> you just type in the URL you want
<dutchie> just checking :)
<humphreybc> I only do it if I can think of a good URL :P
<humphreybc> okay okay
<humphreybc> who's actually here?
<ubuntujenkins> o/
 * godbyk waves
<godbyk> (until my Internet dies again.)
<humphreybc> if it's just the core players, we can skip some of the stuff we already know (like branch organization) because we did it
<humphreybc> so take a look at that pad
<godbyk> might be good to cover it just to be sure.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> well, basically, godbyk correct me if i'm wrong but there's the main branch which has the translations, there's a lucid-e2 branch which has the stuff we're working on for 2nd edition and there's a maverick branch which has the maverick stuff
<dutchie> there are lucid-e1 and -e2 branches, and a maverick one
<humphreybc> ah okay
<humphreybc> and development focus is lucid-e2?
<dutchie> yes
<dutchie> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<godbyk> though if you pull lp:ubuntu-manual, you'll get lucid-e1
<dutchie> will you?
<godbyk> dutchie: yeah.
<humphreybc> neat. so the plan is (pretty obviously) to keep the translators working on lucid-e1 undisturbed while other people can fix bugs and add new stuff for lucid-e2
<humphreybc> what are we going to do about translations for lucid-e2?
<dutchie> looks like the other branches could do with a merge
<dutchie> leave it as-is for now, then make a big noise when we freeze
<humphreybc> godbyk and I sort of came up with July 29th as a date for the 2nd edition of lucid to be released
<humphreybc> it's exactly halfway between lucid and maverick
<dutchie> seems a bit late to me
<humphreybc> Mmm. The idea is to have a 100% error free manual, we'll probably need 3 months to do that
<dutchie> there's always the Last Bug
<ubuntujenkins> would we be adding content?
<humphreybc> especially since it's an LTS we shouldn't rush the manual... which actually brings me onto point releases
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: shouldn't be
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: very selectively actually
<humphreybc> for example if we find something that's missing that we think is pretty important (Wubi for example?) we should add a section on that
<humphreybc> but we don't want to go all out adding new crap willy nilly
<dutchie> do we not mention wubi?
<humphreybc> nah it got dropped at the last minute
 * ubuntujenkins dont start me on that dutchie 
<ubuntujenkins> ooo yey
<humphreybc> so that's something we'll just have to file bugs for and assign to people
<humphreybc> looks like godbyk's internet died
<dutchie> not sure if we need a wubi section, but that's a whole different conversation
<humphreybc> so new content for lucid-e2 will be very chosen with great consideration. Emphasis is on bug fixing.
<ubuntujenkins> I am happy to deal with bugs, if we need help
<humphreybc> ok
<humphreybc> so godbyk's added the next meeting thing, "Game plan for release of lucid 1st edition"
<dutchie> cough[TOPIC]cough
<godbyk_> [I'm on the neighbor's wifi now. Stupid ISP!]
<humphreybc> haha!
<humphreybc> [TOPIC] Lucid 1st edition
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid 1st edition
<humphreybc> happy now? :P
<dutchie> :)
<ubuntujenkins> what time does the website timer say it is released?
<dutchie> midnight iirc
<daker> dutchie, +1
<humphreybc> okay so this is what's going to happen, in about 3 days we'll freeze translations (eek!). Then we'll take the ones that have finished and godbyk will do some final editing to check latex has arranged everything properly in the translations. We'll build the final build, godbyk will upload them to lulu.com so they can be processed and available for order on the 29th
<humphreybc> about 30 minutes before the website releases, we will replace the countdown timer page with the stock home page
<ubuntujenkins> I am not sure the translators will finish in three days.
<humphreybc> now, we have to have some options for languages as right now we don't have a way to check the language in the browser
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: yeah, they probably won't. As the translations are completed, we'll release them
<ubuntujenkins> Galician and greman might do it
<humphreybc> so we may just end up releasing the english version on the 29th
<godbyk_> so it doesn't make much since to freeze the translations, right?
<godbyk_> just let them keep working at it until they've finished?
<ubuntujenkins> I think that makes more sense
<humphreybc> godbyk_: er, yes :P
<humphreybc> so cancel what I said haha
<humphreybc> it would be nice to get german and spanish done for the first release
<humphreybc> i'll see if I can get some people (cough popey) to post some stuff on the planet
<dutchie> I'm sure some en_GB support could be drummed up
 * popey hands humphreybc some expectorant for his sore throat
<dutchie> godbyk is growing underscores
 * godbyk__ wonders how many underscores I can tack on..
<humphreybc> once again, cough-popey-can-talk-about-the-english-GB-translations-on-the-next-uk-loco-podcast-and-act-like-james-may-in-james-may's-toy-stories-to-get-the-public-helping
<popey> email podcast@ubuntu-uk.org and we will
<dutchie> or even leave a voicemail :)
<popey> or that!
<humphreybc> okay, the email might be something along the lines of "OMG WE NEED YOUR HELP TO TRANSLATE THE MANUAL INTO EN_GB PLEASE MENTION IT ON THE SHOW BYE!"
 * dutchie for one would love to hear humphreybc's comic NZ accent
<humphreybc> dutchie, you'll hear it soon enough!
<dutchie> when you remember to get up for your uupc interview?
<humphreybc> lol
<godbyk__> dutchie: s/when/if/
<humphreybc> the FCM one is coming out soon I think, but I was referring to the launch of the OMG! Ubuntu! podcast ;)
<humphreybc> (it would help if the uupc guys recorded in the morning, which would be evening my time :P )
 * humphreybc is not a morning person, if anyone has gathered 
<popey> excuses excuses
<humphreybc> anyway, back to topic!!
<humphreybc> so everyone is happy with the way that's going to work?
<dutchie> sounds fine here
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<humphreybc> daker, all good with the website plans?
 * godbyk__ will have to read the meeting transcript to see what he keeps missing. :-)
<daker> :)
<humphreybc> i'm not sure if there's a whole heap of point in having automatic translation recognition and download when we only have, say, 3 languages at present
<daker> so iam working right now on the website
<dutchie> godbyk__: just do the sensible thing and run an irssi instance in screen on a server :)
<godbyk__> dutchie: heh, I may just have to do that. :)
<humphreybc> so perhaps we can just have a combo box to select language until we have enough to justify automatically detecting one (slash we actually write the code to automatically detect it)
<humphreybc> that's the ultimate goal though, someone goes to our website, they speak Ancient Greek, it auto-detects the browser language and downloads the correct Ancient Greek translation
<humphreybc> daker, how are website translations going?
<daker> they are mostly very good
<humphreybc> we'll also need a note on the front page near the downloads that mentions there are only a few languages available at present but more are being added all the time as they're finished, and if you want to help out go here
<humphreybc> it would also be nice if we could have some way people could sign up via email to get a notification when their language is added
<godbyk> that'd be cool.
<dutchie> should be easy to throw together an add-language script
<humphreybc> or perhaps we could just point them to Planet Ubuntu Manual to check and I could just write a short blog post when new stuff is added. Could we have a feed from planet ubuntu manual on the website somewhere?
<humphreybc> maybe near the dock?
<Red_HamsterX> That wouldn't be much code, at least for detecting. Either the HTTP request has a language option (or something in its user-agent) or it doesn't.
<daker> Red_HamsterX, yes
<ubuntujenkins> are we getting that dock on the website ?
<daker> that one http://www.ndesign-studio.com/demo/css-dock-menu/css-dock.html ?
<ubuntujenkins> yes, are we having that?
<daker> actualy i am not sure to what we will have a dock or a seperate page
<humphreybc> daker, I'll mock something up for you after the meeting
<daker> oki
<ubuntujenkins> its cool but i don't think it is suitible for our website.
<ubuntujenkins> may be we have better plans
<humphreybc> yeah, i have an idea
<ubuntujenkins> kk, next topic then?
<humphreybc> okay, so everyone knows the work items?
<humphreybc> dutchie, could you look into the language detection with Red_HamsterX?
<dutchie> not if it means PHP :P
<humphreybc> daker, you know what you're meant to be doing with the site
<humphreybc> (anything you're unsure of just ask)
<dutchie> but really, OK
<godbyk_> I'll be working on some *offline* stuff today, apparently. :)
<humphreybc> godbyk is going to keep making sure the latex works well with the PDFs and sort them out on lulu.com
<daker> humphreybc, ????!!!!!
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> so daker, are you in here? http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/MaiZTb4Fjd
<humphreybc> i've added the website stuff there
<humphreybc> anyway i'll talk to you more about that after the meeting :)
<humphreybc> moving on, i'm going to skip to lulu.com pricing now since we're talking about that
<humphreybc> [TOPIC] Lulu.com pricing plans
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lulu.com pricing plans
<humphreybc> Now, my thinking is that we have two options: dirt cheap and expensive
<humphreybc> dirt cheap is paperback, black and white, not particularly high quality paper
<humphreybc> expensive would be full colour, hardback, nice paper
<godbyk_> I'd go with the standard paper, not the uber-cheap stuff.
<humphreybc> okay, standard paper then :)
<dutchie> should we set up a donations system? (to go off at a slight tangent)
<humphreybc> so from what godbyk said, they would be around $6USD and $40 USD each
<humphreybc> dutchie: Kevin and I were talking about this actually
<humphreybc> I think we'll wait till after this release to see how it goes
<humphreybc> if there are a shitload of people who download it and we actually have some people wanting to donate or whatever, then that would be cool, we'll set one up
<humphreybc> we'll just judge it based on how this release goes I think
<dutchie> ok, fair enough
<humphreybc> so what do we think about those two plans? I don't want to over complicate things by having lots of plans
<humphreybc> and I want to make it as accessible as possible (read: cheap)
<Vantrax> not my meeting but the stats from amazon show you want to be at a max of around $15
<humphreybc> but then those who want the nice colour version etc have that option as well
<dutchie> Vantrax: input is welcome, thanks
<humphreybc> Vantrax: hmm, problem is that as soon as you make it colour the price sky rockets
<Vantrax> paperback is preferred
<humphreybc> okay
<Vantrax> color is not needed, look at the for dummies series
<humphreybc> godbyk, how much is colour paperback?
<godbyk_> B&W paperback is ~$9.75.
<ubuntujenkins> would it be saddle stich or perfect bound?
<godbyk_> Color paperback is ~$39.50.
<dutchie> wow
<godbyk_> ubuntujenkins: Perfect bound.
<humphreybc> dutchie, ubuntujenkins, Red_HamsterX, godbyk_ what do you think about just having one options, B&W paperback?
<humphreybc> so the $9.75 version only
<dutchie> I think we should start out with two for the first edition at least
<humphreybc> and see how they go?
<ubuntujenkins> can't people do custom options anyway? or are we ordering a batch?
<dutchie> yeah
<humphreybc> if people actually want to drop $40 USD on colour and it sells like hot cakes, then i suppose that's cool
<dutchie> indeed :)
<humphreybc> alright, now we just need names
<humphreybc> I reckon "Premium" for the colour one
<godbyk> Well, anyone can take the PDF and upload it to lulu.com and make their own book, I s'pose.
<Red_HamsterX> I like options, if they don't raise the cost of the cheapest option.
<humphreybc> yeah so our goal is to have the cheapest option as cheap as possible
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: thats all we are doing right its not costing us any thing?
<dutchie> I'm with Red_HamsterX
<humphreybc> godbyk: how bad is the shit paper?
 * humphreybc is sick of starting rhythmbox only to find it doesn't work and the indicator applet for it is empty 
<ubuntujenkins> works 4 me
 * Red_HamsterX uses Audacious.
<humphreybc> seems to be the store that's breaking it
<humphreybc> ah, godbyk's back
<godbyk_> (Gah! It's hard staying connected to the neighbor's wifi 'cause the signal's so weak. I just can't win!)
<godbyk_> I missed everything after 'alright, now we just need names'
<godbyk_> I said:
<godbyk_> Well, anyone can take the PDF and upload it to lulu.com and make their own book, I s'pose.
<godbyk_> The prices I provided are for purchasing a single copy.  If you purchase a batch of 10 copies or more, the prices drop.
<dutchie> what about shipping?
<dutchie> well this is fun
 * godbyk_ hates his life^WInternet service
<dutchie> 23:40:52 < dutchie> what about shipping?
<dutchie> godbyk: ^^ catch that?
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> we'll have to move on
<humphreybc> so the maverick release dates
 * godbyk_ weeps
<humphreybc> (we'll come back to pricing)
<humphreybc> so the release dates are listed here
<humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/MaiZTb4Fjd
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/MaiZTb4Fjd
<humphreybc> basically we're working on a pretty predictable pattern
<humphreybc> all good?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<cep> nice
<humphreybc> now, the juicy stuff
<humphreybc> [TOPIC] Plans for Maverick, what's new
<MootBot> New Topic:  Plans for Maverick, what's new
<humphreybc> Kevin and I skyped about this the other night
<humphreybc> we basically decided on three new things to introduce that would be exciting and realistic
<humphreybc> A quick-start guide/booklet in two versions - one for inclusion ON the CD and one for shipping with the CD.
<humphreybc> the difference is the one included on the CD will assume the people know about Ubuntu and have installed, since they're viewing it on the CD.
<ubuntujenkins> this will just be out content remastered right?
<humphreybc> the booklet however, will only be maybe 4 pages long, small enough to fit inside the Live CD case, and will basically be a full-colour glossy introduction to what Ubuntu is, some pictures, and a little guide about installing
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: pretty much
<humphreybc> I'll design some mockups for the booklet and stuff later on in the year
<humphreybc> so that's new feature 1
<humphreybc> new feature 2 is a full persona to be used across all of our publications
<humphreybc> this persona can be found here
<humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPpersona
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPpersona
<humphreybc> we're still missing quite a few bits of information (we ran out of imagination)
<humphreybc> basically this is to provide consistency and stuff - we need to create all the files that Jessica will need for screenshots
<humphreybc> so this means photos of rock-climbing, music in Rhythmbox of her favourite (made up) bands etc
<godbyk> instead of having screenshots that are empty dialogs, I think it'd be more instructive to show the dialogs with the information filled in.. provide a concrete example.
<humphreybc> exactly
<c7p> interesting
<humphreybc> so that's new feature 2
<humphreybc> new feature 3 was either going to be a Kubuntu manual, or an Ubuntu Developers Manual, and we've pretty much decided on the latter
<ubuntujenkins> I think ubutnu advanced is a better name
<humphreybc> for a couple of reasons, firstly I think there probably wouldn't be enough interest for a Kubuntu one, secondly I don't believe Kubuntu is aimed at novices therefore doesn't require a simple manual
<humphreybc> also, with all the opportunistic developer stuff and the fact that the help and tutorials for all the developer tools like Launchpad, bazaar, ground control, quickly etc are spread out all over the place, I think a developer manual would be great
<ubuntujenkins> i soudl argue that kubuntu can be fore novices, I do like the devs/advanced manul though
<ubuntujenkins> *could
<humphreybc> I think we'll have to see how this and the next release goes and I'll talk to the kubuntu guys at UDS to see how much interest there is in making a Kubuntu manual
<c7p> or there can be a manual of how you can contribute to the community (?)
<humphreybc> so the Ubuntu Developers Manual (working title) is feature #3
<humphreybc> c7p: yeah, that'll be the developers manual basically
<humphreybc> we should have information about contributing in other ways too
<ubuntujenkins> I can do some of the stuff in the devs manual
<humphreybc> so we might call it the Ubuntu Contributors Manual, or "Contributing to Ubuntu" or something
<c7p> that's better
<humphreybc> now we'll need to get the launchpad people, the bazaar people, Martin Owens from Ground Control, Rick Spencer and Didier Roche from Quickly etc together so we can get all the content together
<dutchie> yeah, there's more to contributing than doing dev work, and dev work for ubuntu is basically packaging, which is not what people think of as dev work
 * humphreybc might register a session at UDS for this
<ubuntujenkins> I can cover ppas , packaging is a dark art doctormo had a blog on it today
<Red_HamsterX> Packaging for non-internal use still intimidates me.
<dutchie> packaging is great fun ;)
<Red_HamsterX> Packaging software*
<Red_HamsterX> =P
<humphreybc> I think the contributors manual will be a big hit, because a) it's something that hasn't been done before, b) will make it easier for people to contribute (and everyone in the community wants more help), c) will give the developers a method of getting information about their projects out there so they'll be more willing to help, and d) most of the material is already around the place (like Launchpad has a heap of help already 
<humphreybc> these played a big part in deciding on this over the Kubuntu manual - it will be actually possible to create a Contributors manual in 6 months
<ubuntujenkins> we don't want to copy other peoples work it makes things more complex, licence wise
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-18
<humphreybc> well, it depends
<godbyk> oh, something we should do for lucid-2e is make sure that all our content is original or from CC (or Free) sources (and credit appropriately).
<humphreybc> so, everyone happy about the new proposals for maverick?
<humphreybc> of course other stuff will go on, like further work on our website
<humphreybc> we'll also look into ways to improve the translation process
<humphreybc> we'll be making it easier for people to help out
<humphreybc> (perhaps writing a small program that makes it easier to install latex)
<daker> what about Gummi ?
<dutchie> daker: that doesn't shortcut the installation aiui
<daker> lol
<daker> i mean to write tex files
<humphreybc> daker: it's good, but we'd have to modify it and repackage it so it works with texlive 2009
<daker> oh i see
<humphreybc> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-contributors-manual
<c7p> i'm looking forward to the contributors manual
<humphreybc> now, I want to register another session at UDS where I can talk with the Launchpad guys about how we can improve communication with translators
<humphreybc> so, I need some points where we think communication could be improved - dutchie, godbyk?
<ubuntujenkins> ask the translators, on the mailing list?
<humphreybc> kk
<godbyk> fuzzy translations that show the diffs between the previous string (fuzzy translation) and current string (to be translated).
<godbyk> also, yeah, ask the translators. :)
<dutchie> I can't think of anything else personally
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> now
<humphreybc> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/launchpad-translator-communication
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> [TOPIC] slogan
<MootBot> New Topic:  slogan
<humphreybc> "Unlimited Possibilities?"
<Red_HamsterX> Is that not, perhaps, just a tad too far-reaching?
 * dutchie is no good at creative stuff
<dutchie> and agrees with Red_HamsterX
<humphreybc> probably
<Red_HamsterX> Potential, perhaps.
<humphreybc> but the way i see it is it covers both just regular "customers" of our manual
<dutchie> "readers", if you will
<humphreybc> so if they download and read our manual, they unlock the full potential of Ubuntu because they know how to use it
<humphreybc> hence, they have unlimited possibilities to what they can do with it with the new found knowledge
<godbyk> In that case 'unlocking unlimited possibilities' would be better.
<godbyk> as just 'unlimited possibilities' seems to refer to the project itself.
<humphreybc> secondly, it covers people who want to contribute. Join our team, you can basically do whatever you're interested in. Want to make a python app? Sure. Want to write something? Sure. Want to translate? Sure. We have unlimited possibilities for what we can do as a team, because we do so much stuff and are open to all new ideas
<Red_HamsterX> "Unlock Multiverses of Possibilities"?
 * Red_HamsterX tries to work the 'M' in.
<dutchie> unlocking multitudes of possibilities
<dutchie> millions?
<ubuntujenkins> I am not sure, I can't think of a suggestion though
<humphreybc> I sort of wanted it to be short and sharp
<c7p> the key to the new world
<humphreybc> "Unlock Multiverses of Possibilities" is a bit complex
<dutchie> yeah
<humphreybc> think Apple
<humphreybc> :)
<c7p> :p
<humphreybc> simple, clear, memorable
<dutchie> it's very late for creativity
<Red_HamsterX> Your guide to the flip-side?
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: hahaha!
<humphreybc> dutchie: naw, it's never too late
<humphreybc> our project is ever-evolving
<c7p> that's true
<dutchie> is this the last point?
<godbyk> I'd email the list and see what folks come up with.
<humphreybc> Yeah, pretty much
<humphreybc> sorry, i'm talking to other people and registering blueprints haha
<humphreybc> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:28.
<dutchie> right, I'm going to bed
<ubuntujenkins> what 18.28?
<daker> hhhh
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> random time
<ubuntujenkins> right night all
<Red_HamsterX> It's CST.
<Red_HamsterX> CDT*
<Red_HamsterX> "Understand. Manage. Prosper."?
 * Red_HamsterX shrugs.
<c7p> night all
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: LOL
<humphreybc> sorry I don't mean to laugh at your ideas :P
<humphreybc> that's good
<Red_HamsterX> I'm so deeply offended and stuff. =P
<humphreybc> lol
<daker> godbyk-android, if you could pls point tes.ubuntu-manual.org to lp:ubuntu-manual-website/main ??
<daker> test.ubuntu-manual.org
<humphreybc> daker, move the convo to #ubuntu-manual now :)
<daker> convo ?
<Red_HamsterX> daker, this is not the channel you are thinking of.
<Red_HamsterX> convo: conversation
<daker> oh sorry
<daker> :)
<ubuntujenkins> hello everyone
<Red_HamsterX> Hi.
<godbyk> Hey, ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is ubuntujenkins.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ubuntujenkins> everyone who is here for the quickshot meeting please say hi,
<ubuntujenkins> The adgenda is here
<dutchie> I might listen in a bit
<ubuntujenkins> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings
<ubuntujenkins> The etherpad that we will be focusing around it here:
<ubuntujenkins> [LINK] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/f0VIdaLXWZ
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/f0VIdaLXWZ
<ubuntujenkins> please have a read through the etherpad if you have not read it before
<ubuntujenkins> As we have already planned some of the things we would like some of this meeting will be quite quick
<ubuntujenkins> [TOPIC] Client
<ubuntujenkins> Starting with the must haves, has anyone got any points/objections/suggestions to raise? Personally I think they are all good ideas and we should try and include them all.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Client
<Red_HamsterX> I think we were discussing whether the remaining nice-to-have would be a must or not.
<ubuntujenkins> yes we can move on to those it was more for if anyone was watching from the users.
<ubuntujenkins> on to the nice to haves
<ubuntujenkins> how much off those would we like to include?
<Red_HamsterX> Er... I meant undecided*
<Red_HamsterX> dutchie, I think, had an idea about a way to centralize the project data.
<ubuntujenkins> Ok onto the  undecided for the client
<ubuntujenkins> I like the idea of a wizard desgin and think we should use it
<Red_HamsterX> My view is that it would be most logical to actually have project admins distribute files, to try to keep them in hthe hands of people who actually want to help and so that some projects can remain private.
<Red_HamsterX> For the first nice-to-have.
<Red_HamsterX> I seem to have derailed things already.
<ubuntujenkins> thats fine i was interested on what a .qsproj is
<ubuntujenkins> thats our own extension
<ubuntujenkins> right?
<Red_HamsterX> Just a generic, placeholder extension for a file that would contain things like the server's URL, some key to access the server (optional), and whatever else we need to decouple from the core Quickshot body.
<Red_HamsterX> It'd basically be a config file.
<Red_HamsterX> Yes, it'd be our own extension.
<Red_HamsterX> I just made it up.
<Red_HamsterX> qsproj = 'Quickshot Project'
<ubuntujenkins> the other idea was a learned style start
<ubuntujenkins> the user chooses which project to work for
<Red_HamsterX> To effect that, we'd need to have some sort of globally authoritative server, right?
<godbyk> I think it'd be best if they could use the same quickshot installation for multiple projects.  I don't know that we'd want the projects to be centralized on a single server, though.
<Red_HamsterX> An analogue for why I'd support small files would be the torrent design.
<Red_HamsterX> Anyone can use the file, but they have to find it somehow.
<ubuntujenkins> its cleaner in the sense that after the user has put in the ppa they don't have to troop off to find a file to make it work. Can we use a central server to point at other servers?
<Red_HamsterX> Which has an implicit "I believe you actually want to help" factor to it.
<Red_HamsterX> And it makes Quickshot usable for secret/non-community projects.
<Red_HamsterX> We could create a network of links, but that would add a lot to back-end administration.
<Red_HamsterX> The other serves would either need to auto-notify the central server (or some proxy) or the central server would need to be publically maintainable.
<ubuntujenkins> hmm so people have their own servers which are linked to with the use of a config/torrent file
<Red_HamsterX> So that anyone could add their project to it.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm just using torrent files as an analogy.
<ubuntujenkins> yea i know
<ubuntujenkins> I like the config idea, these projects could create a lot of data
<Red_HamsterX> We could create a hybrid of the two ideas.
<ubuntujenkins> in what sense?
<Red_HamsterX> Create a central server that allows public posts to be made, with expiry dates.
<Red_HamsterX> And then either have an option in Qukckshot to search through them or just provide a link to the page.
<Red_HamsterX> Where the posts contain a qsproj file.
<Red_HamsterX> Or generate one on demand.
<Red_HamsterX> I'd prefer to keep such a thing in the web-browser realm, though.
<godbyk> So the central server hosts config files for all the projects? And those config files can point to other servers for hosting the screenshots, etc.?
<Red_HamsterX> The only use-case I can envision involves a project starting up and advertising to a community for help, not random users feeling bored and looking for an afternoon of screenshotting various things.
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah.
<Red_HamsterX> It'd just be a big directory of qsproj files.
<ubuntujenkins> that would make sense to do it that.
<Red_HamsterX> Logically, I mean.
<Red_HamsterX> Like a big bulletin board with phone numbers.
<godbyk> What other projects do we expect to use quickshot?
<Red_HamsterX> Anything could conceivably use it.
<ubuntujenkins> acording to ben ubuntu docs ubuntu classroom material
<ubuntujenkins> woudl like to use it
<godbyk> I can see the docs team and learning team wanting to use it.
<godbyk> What use cases are we anticipating for other projects?
<godbyk> Anything other than 'we're writing docs'?
<Red_HamsterX> I'd imagine it could be helpful for independent developers primarily creating content in a non-English language, too.
<Red_HamsterX> So they could show off their work in a few languages and just maintain the qsproj file as part of their source tree.
<Red_HamsterX> When they release a new version, just tap their users to update the wiki entries.
<ubuntujenkins> I think untill we create a program that works amazingly and get some press, we will not know who wants to use it
<Red_HamsterX> Or whatever.
<Red_HamsterX> (And use someone else's server to host the screenshots)
<ubuntujenkins> so when quickshot loads it checks one server for the config file downloads the one the user chooses and then does everything else on the project related server, everyone happy with that?
<godbyk> I see.  So for a project to take screenshots of its own GUI in multiple languages?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Sounds like a plan.
<Red_HamsterX> Actually... Not even for multiple languages.
<ubuntujenkins> basically yes,
<Red_HamsterX> I would have had use for this in school.
<Red_HamsterX> For GUI development classes.
<Red_HamsterX> As a reminder of what needs to be captured.
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: are you happy with that, i would like to go on.
<Red_HamsterX> It should check for local files first.
<Red_HamsterX> Scan for local (present them in a menu somewhere), allow imports directly from local files, and query the main server.
<ubuntujenkins> ok thats fine
<ubuntujenkins> [AGREED] so when quickshot loads it checks for local files then one server for the config file downloads the one the user chooses and then does everything else on the project related server
<Red_HamsterX> Next item, then.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  so when quickshot loads it checks for local files then one server for the config file downloads the one the user chooses and then does everything else on the project related server
<ubuntujenkins> A prompt that warns users if the screenshot they have taken is larger or smaller than the reference by more than a couple of pixels.
<ubuntujenkins> we could do some form of flagging on the server but some screenshots are different sizes depending on the langauge
<Red_HamsterX> The main problem with this is that it has no (simple) way of ensuring that the user actually has correct content.
<godbyk> I think that's a good idea, too.  And even if the user confirms it's okay, it should be flagged on the server for additional confirmation, probably.
<Red_HamsterX> In the event of a sub-rect or similarly-sized window, it'll give a false negative.
<ubuntujenkins> I have seen one screenshot that is tiny and the same one in another langauge that is huge
<Red_HamsterX> In the event of a language with really wide or really narrow characters, it'll give a false negative.
<godbyk> True.
<Red_HamsterX> It might just end up annoying people.
<ubuntujenkins> I think its a good idea but, it will be too hard to get right
<godbyk> Maybe we can account for that automagically somehow.
<godbyk> Looking at the font metrics or taking some baseline comparisons or somethign.
<godbyk> I don't know if it's feasible, either, but we should explore it a little bit.
<Red_HamsterX> Height probably wouldn't change too much...
<godbyk> Run some tests and see how it works in practice.
<ubuntujenkins> we haven't had that many errors, this release. I agree we should look at it and see if it works
<ubuntujenkins> I am not sure it will work well
<Red_HamsterX> Agree to leave this as a nice-to-have, requiring further brainstorming, then?
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<godbyk> Yeah, I think we'll have to test the idea a bit first.
<Red_HamsterX> It'd probably work fine in most languages.
<ubuntujenkins> [AGREE] test out/look into  the idea of error checking the screenshots
<Red_HamsterX> We could probably have a 'skip dimension check' menu item somewhere for weird languages.
<ubuntujenkins> good idea
<ubuntujenkins> [AGREED] test out/look into  the idea of error checking the screenshots
<MootBot> AGREED received:  test out/look into  the idea of error checking the screenshots
<ubuntujenkins> ok next one
<ubuntujenkins> pdf guide, on how to use the program
<Red_HamsterX> A PDF guide would be nice.
<Red_HamsterX> Nicer still would be having it translated, using Quickshot itself.
<Red_HamsterX> As the reference project.
<godbyk> I think we definitely need good documentation in some form -- for both the end users and the administrators.
<Red_HamsterX> Though maybe we could make it built-in-help stuff.
<ubuntujenkins> I don't think it would be to hard to do, quickshot used to take screenshots of quickshot could be interesting :-)
<Red_HamsterX> Like a yelp doc or HTML.
<ubuntujenkins> yelp is so slow, and i would liek to be able to rip it out of the live cd when i can
<Red_HamsterX> Help dialogue pointing to the main server?
<godbyk> That sounds good.
<ubuntujenkins> online help is good
<Red_HamsterX> Pad updated.
<Red_HamsterX> Must-have status?
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, done.
<Red_HamsterX> Any Quickshot users here with ideas about things you'd like to see in the client?
<ubuntujenkins> [AGREED] some form of online help found through the help menu
<MootBot> AGREED received:  some form of online help found through the help menu
<ubuntujenkins> [TOPIC] Server
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server
<ubuntujenkins> as for the domain, i like the second idea, i don't know abotu godbyk's thoughts
<ubuntujenkins> can we use quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org please godbyk
<Red_HamsterX> Nice-to-haves?
<godbyk> Which idea do you prefer for the domain? quickshot.org or quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org?
<ubuntujenkins> i like the idea of quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org
<Red_HamsterX> I like the idea of keeping it under the ubuntu-manual domain.
<ubuntujenkins> yes Red_HamsterX forgot to mention that
<godbyk> Sure. It's already set up for you guys, even. We just need some html to drop in. :)
<Red_HamsterX> I don't see this project ever getting big enough to benefit from having its own domain.
<ubuntujenkins> yey \o/
<godbyk> The nice thing about keeping it under the ubuntu-manual.org domain is that it doesn't cost us any (extra) money.
<Red_HamsterX> The other nice thing is that it gives us a (relatively) big name to use for promotion.
<godbyk> And if it ever does grow to need its own domain, we can set that up later.
<Red_HamsterX> And to add a sense of credibility.
<ubuntujenkins> [AGREED} using quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org
<MootBot> AGREED received: [AGREED} using quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org
<Red_HamsterX> I guess you don't need the brackets.
<ubuntujenkins> ok next item some form of key A system for tracking which client uploaded which screenshots so that, rather than credit, acceptance/rejection messages can be sent
<ubuntujenkins> or login system
<Red_HamsterX> I think you blurred two ideas.
<ubuntujenkins> I may have got confussed, I am not clued up on server stuff tbh
<godbyk> We may be able to use the launchpad auth system for that, but I'm not sure.  If we did, it'd also require that quickshot users had a launchpad ID.
<Red_HamsterX> Which would further couple it to Ubuntu.
<ubuntujenkins> true
<Red_HamsterX> Something we probably want to avoid.
<Red_HamsterX> I meant, we want to maintain 100% support under Ubuntu, but we don't want to be hostile to forks.
<Red_HamsterX> mean*
<godbyk> Right.
<ubuntujenkins> I was trying to avoid people setting up another user account on another website. I think we should avoid coupling to ubuntu
<godbyk> We'd like it to be usable by as many projects as possible.
<Red_HamsterX> Whatever we do, though, we need to make it easy for users.
<godbyk> We could use OpenID, perhaps, but I don't know that many people are familiar with that yet, either.
<Red_HamsterX> OpenID is great, but it's not the most intuitive thing to set up.
<godbyk> (Even though, given the number of OpenID providers, everyone probably already has an OpenID somewhere.. whether they know about it or not..)
<Red_HamsterX> And a lot of legitimate providers have shady-looking fportals.
<Red_HamsterX> I was actually reluctant to use Goog's official portal.
<Red_HamsterX> Google's*
<godbyk> Lots of providers like gmail and yahoo have linked your email address to an openid account already.
<godbyk> but I don't expect many people are aware of that.
<ubuntujenkins> i did not know that
<Red_HamsterX> Not quite. With Google, you still have to say "Yes, I want to create an OpenID based on my account details"
<Red_HamsterX> It's not automatic.
<godbyk> true.
<Red_HamsterX> So, at this stage, OpenID is out.
<godbyk> so what would this authentication be used for, specifically?
<godbyk> are we wanting a unique id? or an email address to contact people with? or what?
<ubuntujenkins> stop people uploading images manualy
<Red_HamsterX> Just to avoid having someone upload objectionable content or otherwise try to abuse the servers.
<godbyk> I see.
<Red_HamsterX> If we can make them somehow accountable, we can implement a form of social control.
<godbyk> well, on the server side, we could do some rate-limiting on a per-IP basis.
<godbyk> we know it takes at least 3 seconds per screenshot, right? :)
<Red_HamsterX> If we couple that with a credit system, it should provide adequate protection for this system.
<ubuntujenkins> how does a credit system work?
<Red_HamsterX> Well, yes, we can definitely do that.
<Red_HamsterX> If we have their handle or e-mail address, we can produce a report that shows who uploaded what.
<godbyk> True.
<Red_HamsterX> Admins could write a thank-you message in the manual or whatever based on help.
<ubuntujenkins> hoe would the data protection act effect us on that?
<godbyk> So it seems that our options are, basically, 1. require them to create a new account on the quickshot site, 2. require them to use an existing auth system (e.g., launchpad), or 3. require them to use a distributed auth system like email verification or openid.
<godbyk> are there other options I've missed?
<Red_HamsterX> We could maintain a blacklist on the mains erver.
<Red_HamsterX> main server*
<Red_HamsterX> And then just naively trust users.
<Red_HamsterX> When Quickshot first starts, record their handle.
<Red_HamsterX> So they can give out their real name or an alias or something.
<Red_HamsterX> And send that handle as meta-data along with whatever screenshots their instance of Quickshot captures.
<Red_HamsterX> An IP blacklist, I mean.
<ubuntujenkins> but a user could just change their handle
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah.
<Red_HamsterX> Security's hard when you need to worry about both transparency and intuitiveness.
<godbyk> Well, I think having them sign up on the quickshot server would be easy enough. I mean, people are pretty accustomed to creating accounts.
<godbyk> But one question is: do we have them create the account on the project server or the quickshot main server?
<godbyk> Creating it on the main server means they only need that one account for multiple projects.
<Red_HamsterX> It'd have to be main.
<Red_HamsterX> Which adds an always-up constraint.
<godbyk> True.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh.
<Red_HamsterX> Maybe not.
<godbyk> And I can't guarantee that with the current server.
<godbyk> But it could just be a matter of tagging the screenshots with that metadata and using it during upload.
<Red_HamsterX> They could create the account through Quickshot, which could in turn send them a simple hash, which they'd use as their fingerprint everywhere.
<godbyk> (if the server's offline, then store the shots locally until they can be uploaded)
<Red_HamsterX> Store that client-side.
<Red_HamsterX> Send fingerprint as meta-data.
<ubuntujenkins> thats what i was think Red_HamsterX, then we can reject stuff baised on meta data?
<Red_HamsterX> And then just have the satellite servers query the main one for the fingerprint when approving images.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, wait...
<Red_HamsterX> No...
<Red_HamsterX> By that point, the damage is done.
<Red_HamsterX> I don't want to block legit users.
<godbyk> brb
<Red_HamsterX> Under any circumstances.
<Red_HamsterX> Maybe we could just rely on security throuygh obscurity.
<ubuntujenkins> hmm
<Red_HamsterX> If the user knows where the QS server is, and they have whatever key would be in the qsproj file, like an open password, just let everything through.
<Red_HamsterX> And make it easy for admins to turn on/off content-acceptance.
<godbyk> back
<Red_HamsterX> So projects will only accept files when real activity could be underway.
<godbyk> I think this is something that will need further discussion and thought.
<ubuntujenkins> still doesn't stop people uploading 1000 of images
<godbyk> Maybe we should write up some notes in a pad to help us organize our ideas.
<Red_HamsterX> It does if we add rate-limiting, like godbyk suggested.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll attach them to the nice-to-have entry.
<Red_HamsterX> In the EtherPad.
<ubuntujenkins> ok so we will work on this
<godbyk> We need to figure out what behaviors we're trying to prevent (specifically), and that will help us determine how to do it.
<ubuntujenkins> i like that idea
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah.
<Red_HamsterX> We'll need to get someone with black/white-hat experience to give us some advice.
<ubuntujenkins> [AGREED} For the server we need to figure out what behaviors we're trying to prevent (specifically), and that will help us determine how to do it.
<MootBot> AGREED received: [AGREED} For the server we need to figure out what behaviors we're trying to prevent (specifically), and that will help us determine how to do it.
<ubuntujenkins> ok, we will aslo seek advice next one?
<godbyk> what's the next item?
<Red_HamsterX> I think we've already internally accepted the remaining must-haves.
<ubuntujenkins> and the undecided ones as well
<ubuntujenkins> [TOPIC] Bug fixes
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug fixes
<ubuntujenkins> Is there anything we need to discuss?
<ubuntujenkins> or add to the list
<godbyk> Did we get the language problem(s) sorted?
<ubuntujenkins> I wrote a work around for stuff that wasn't in the local module, and the bug i filled on the midule resulted on it being updated
<Red_HamsterX> Going forward, I think we can adapt ubuntujenkins's new code to gracefully handle unexpected errors.
<ubuntujenkins> The babel module has a work around if the short code isn't recognised.
<ubuntujenkins> *there is a work around for the bebal module
<godbyk> k
<ubuntujenkins> ok thats sounds good, onto the road map?
<Red_HamsterX> Any known bugs with the server?
<ubuntujenkins> not as far as i know
<Red_HamsterX> Roadmap, then.
<ubuntujenkins> [TOPIC] Road Map
<MootBot> New Topic:  Road Map
<ubuntujenkins> we need to make blus prints for this release
<ubuntujenkins> *blue
<Red_HamsterX> For reference, this is PEP 8: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
<godbyk> Does the quickshot road map need to mesh at all with the ubuntu-manual road map?  that is, does UM rely on any of the new features or bug fixes in quickshot?
<Red_HamsterX> I don't believe it does.
<Red_HamsterX> Quickshot should be able to stand on its own, as an independent tool.
<godbyk> I like PEP 8.
<ubuntujenkins> [LINK] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
<Red_HamsterX> Our goal should, I beleive, be to provide the UMP with as good as tool as possible, at the times when it is needed.
<ubuntujenkins> when is it needed by um?
<Red_HamsterX> Will anything big change in 2ed, godbyk?
<Red_HamsterX> ed2*
<ubuntujenkins> also in "Attributes intended to be kept private should be given a leading underscore, as in '_screenshot_data'" how does the _ keep it private?
<Red_HamsterX> It's an understood convention amongst Python developers.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: I think the second edition will primarily be what we wished the first edition was.
<ubuntujenkins> [LINK] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/MaiZTb4Fjd
<Red_HamsterX> _ means "if you use this directly and your code breaks later, you will be laughed at"
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/MaiZTb4Fjd
<godbyk> So we'll be fixing all the bugs and adding back in some of the content we didn't have time to finish previously.
<ubuntujenkins> that is the manula time plan
<ubuntujenkins> August 20th beta and writing freeze
<ubuntujenkins> -- during beta translations/screenshots for 7 weeks
<ubuntujenkins> so 20th of august is the manual target date
<godbyk> Having said that, I don't know when the UI freeze is for Maverick.
<godbyk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
<ubuntujenkins> 16th september
<ubuntujenkins> so we have alot longer
<godbyk> Yeah, so we may not be able to take screenshots until after that date.
<godbyk> (Unless we get Canonical'd a lot again.) ;-)
<ubuntujenkins> I recomend not taking screenshots before that date
<daker> back
<daker> sorry
<ubuntujenkins> ok can we set some dates for the road map
<Red_HamsterX> Sure.
<Red_HamsterX> My values are just placeholders.
<Red_HamsterX> So replace them as you see fit.
<Red_HamsterX> Any objections for PEP 8/the general style outlined?
<Red_HamsterX> to*
<ubuntujenkins> nope
<godbyk> No, I generally agree with PEP 8.
<Red_HamsterX> We'll need titeuf's imput for choosing a documentation convention.
<Red_HamsterX> input*
<ubuntujenkins> mailing list for naming conventions
<Red_HamsterX> I like Epytext, but it's bloated by comparison to other standards.
<ubuntujenkins> can you mail the list with suggestions of standards Red_HamsterX then we can choose
<Red_HamsterX> I can.
<Red_HamsterX> And probably will.
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks, if we aim for that to be decided on by next weekend..
<ubuntujenkins> 25th april
<ubuntujenkins> as for gui design I think to be done by 19th june
<ubuntujenkins> any objections?
<godbyk> Yeah, I need to walk through the process again and update my list of gripes sometime. :-)
<Red_HamsterX> I'll likely be focused on the server for most of that period, except where my involvement is specifically requested, so it's up to you to pick a date you think you can manage.
<ubuntujenkins> the whole thing is going to look differnt next time, I will draw up the content of each window next week end
<Red_HamsterX> Concept drawings are helpful. :)
<ubuntujenkins> well my suggestion of it anyway
<Red_HamsterX> I'd ask for scans, but I hate making those as much as you probably do.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Maybe we can sit down some time and work on the design.
<ubuntujenkins> I will scan them in if thats what you mean. I will be on a train so need something to do
<ubuntujenkins> sure godbyk
<Red_HamsterX> I'm not a good GUI-designer-type, so I recommend against involving me.
<godbyk> heh
<ubuntujenkins> ok then server, when can you realistically get that done by?
<Red_HamsterX> I'll remain busy with other stuff, limiting me mostly to weekend hacking.
<Red_HamsterX> I think my estimate is suitibly conservative.
<godbyk> For the server stuff, will that include a complete web-based admin thing? so everything can be managed via web browser?
<Red_HamsterX> (The one in the pad)
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah.
<Red_HamsterX> No bzr dependence.
<godbyk> cool
<Red_HamsterX> Everything in SQLite/filesystem.
<Red_HamsterX> (Or MySQL)
<Red_HamsterX> (But I like SQLite)
<daker> MySQL+1
<godbyk> I'm okay with both MySQL and sqlite.
<Red_HamsterX> SQLite's much more portable. =P
<godbyk> I can set up a MySQL db on the server if we need one, btw.
<ubuntujenkins> daker: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/f0VIdaLXWZ is where we are looking
<Red_HamsterX> That's the crux of my argument.
<godbyk> (It may be faster than sqlite for the primary server.)
<Red_HamsterX> We could always dual-engine it.
<daker> godbyk, +1
<godbyk> Well, the db stuff in python should be abstracted to handle that, I'd think.
<Red_HamsterX> The server'd remain PHP.
<godbyk> my only concern with using sqlite on the server is that I don't know how well sqlite handles simultaneous writes.
<Red_HamsterX> It's easier to work with files and render pages that way.
<godbyk> oh, right. well, I know php has db abstraction layers.
<Red_HamsterX> It's not as efficient as MySQL, but it's file-handle-based.
<godbyk> If we're wanting a db on the user's side, then I think sqlite is a fine choice.
<godbyk> on the server side, we'll just use a db abstraction layer.
<Red_HamsterX> Planning for multi-engine design, then.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll include SQLite and MySQL templates.
<Red_HamsterX> And Postgres.
<Red_HamsterX> Since that's what I use here.
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, so what's the current topic?
<ubuntujenkins> make that an agree-d then?
<ubuntujenkins> [TOPIC] Any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
<godbyk> When should we meet next?
<godbyk> (Or should we decide that later?)
<ubuntujenkins> [TOPIC] Next meeting?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting?
<ubuntujenkins> erm don't mind two weeks - month ?
<godbyk> I propose we wait until after the manual's release.
<godbyk> (I'll be relatively busy with that.)
<Red_HamsterX> I don't think we'll really have anything to formally discuss for a while.
<ubuntujenkins> we will call one if we need one then.
<godbyk> sounds good
<ubuntujenkins> ok thank you for coming
<ubuntujenkins> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:28.
<godbyk> yep. thanks, guys!
<daker> :D
<ubuntujenkins> 90 mins that was long
<godbyk> heh.
<godbyk> now I have to go read the logs of yesterday's ubuntu-manual meeting.
<godbyk> (since my 'net connection kept dying.)
<ubuntujenkins> I will mail the list with the minutes and update the meeting wiki, and add the etherpad to a wiki to make it more official
<godbyk> cool. thanks, ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> no problem
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-11
<Sayke> hello!
<Sayke> olololol
<hrw> hi RAOF
 * hrw back in 5-10 minutes
<RAOF> Evening/afternoon/morning :)
<cyphermox> hey RAOF.
<RAOF> Third time's the charm? :)
<stgraber> hello
<bdrung> hi
<bdrung> DMB meeting?
<stgraber> yep, assuming we have quorum
<stgraber> maco, cody-somerville, Laney: ping ?
<stgraber> going to go get a coffee while waiting for them to show up, will be back in 2 minutes
<stgraber> ouch, doesn't look good for quorum :(
<bdrung> that's not good
<RAOF> Laney was around not *that* long ago :/
<bdrung> question while waiting: can we do have a session at the UDS?
<stgraber> a session as in ? DMB meeting at UDS or some kind of DMB review session (like what we did for the ARB at last UDS) ?
<psusi> shoot, did I miss the DMB?
<stgraber> nope, it didn't start yet
<stgraber> we're waiting for other DMB members to arrive as we don't currently have quorum
<bdrung> stgraber: DMB meeting
<psusi> ahh, whew...
<bdrung> but we could do a review session too
<psusi> was it supposed to start 20 minutes ago, or 1:20 ago?
<stgraber> bdrung: we tried that last time but couldn't get enough DMB members to attend so we had to postpone
<bdrung> stgraber: it will be my first uds
<RAOF> psusi: 20 minutes ago.
<stgraber> bdrung: I wouldn't count on us being able to have quorum during UDS but we can always try it. It really depends on what sessions are running at the same time.
<stgraber> bdrung: if I'm not wrong in my timezone calculation, it'll be at 2pm Budapest time so either still during plenaries or the first session after the plenaries
<bdrung> stgraber: 3pm Budapest time
<hrw> in worst situation applying for UD will take similar amount then it takes for DD
<stgraber> bdrung: oh, ok, then definitely during afternoon sessions :) will have to look at the schedule once we have it to see if I can make it
<stgraber> maco, cody-somerville, Laney: ping (again :))
<bdrung> stgraber: what's with geser and persia?
<stgraber> I don't know, they aren't in this channel. IIRC geser said he couldn't make it at this time and I haven't seen persia in a while
<hrw> ;(
<RAOF> Well, we'll get to catch up with persia at UDS at least :)
<ogra_> persia has connection issues thanks to all the quakes
<stgraber> ogra_: I was suspecting it might have something to do with that :(
<ogra_> he was fine on thu. which is when i talked to him last by phone
<stgraber> ok, I guess at this point it's not very likely for any of the others to show up and still leave a reasonable amount of time for the meeting :(
<hrw> yep ;(
<hrw> 3rd meeting for me
<RAOF> Likewise.
<stgraber> RAOF, hrw: can you two only make it to our 13:00 UTC meeting ? it seems to be the most problematic one for DMB members (even though the move to an hour later was meant to fix that ...)
<RAOF> stgraber: I've been to two of the 13:00 and the intervening one last fortnight.
<RAOF> The other one is early, but still doable.
 * cyphermox will be back in about 30 min.
<stgraber> ok, I'll suggest on the mailing-list that we schedule another meeting at 13:00 UTC next week but only announce it if we can have quorum (as in, poke people on our mailing-list to confirm they can attend).
<hrw> stgraber: I can manage 5:00 - 20:00 UTC (7-22 my time)
 * RAOF isn't wedded to 13:00 UTC.  11pm isn't exactly perfect ;)
<hrw> stgraber: +/- 1h if needed
<stgraber> ok, I'm sending an e-mail now to our mailing-list, to see if we can get the meeting rescheduled for next week, and hopefully make sure we can quorum for that next meeting (13:00 UTC) and the one after (19:00 UTC) as we have a pretty long backlog
<hrw> ok, so see you in 2 weeks
<stgraber> hrw, RAOF: Ok, e-mail sent to DMB mailing list. Thanks for coming to this meeting and sorry we didn't have quorum.
<stgraber> hrw, RAOF: If we can schedule that extra meeting, I'll be sending an e-mail to ubuntu-devel and will be contacting everyone listed in the agenda to tell them about it.
<cyphermox> thanks stgraber.
<hrw> thx stgraber
<maco> stgraber: sorry :( i forgot
<maco> ...i just got out of bed
<hrw> happens
<ara> hello!
 * skaet waves
<skaet> do we have quorum?
 * ara waves
<skaet> hmm,  sconklin, bjf around?
<pitti> hello
<skaet> hi pitti
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> SRU/LTS bi-weekly synch meeting
<skaet> Reminder, please follow the convention  of using ".." on a separate line when you've finished typing.    Also, If someone wants to comment on the last point, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<sconklin> sorry I'm late
<skaet> sconklin, no worries
<skaet> [TOPIC] Karmic/Hardy Desktop - EOL approaching
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic/Hardy Desktop - EOL approaching
<skaet> Just a reminder that April 2011 will see end of life of Karmic Koala (9.10), and Hardy Heron (8.04) Desktop.
 * ara doesn't know whether to feel happy or sad
<skaet> I've staggered the actual close dates, so they don't all land on the same week with the Natty release.
 * sconklin is dancing
<skaet> Hardy Heron desktop will EOL mid may.
<skaet> note for it will go out today.
<skaet> Karmic's one month announce note has already gone out.
<skaet> sconklin,  since server is still supported, I assume this doesn't change the workload for you on heron then.   is this correct?
<skaet> server on Heron to be clear
<ScottK> The workload reduction comes in June when Dapper vanishes completely.
 * skaet nods
<sconklin> skaet: that's pretty much correct. We're currently only taking upstream stable and security fixes, and that continues for server.
<skaet> sconklin,  thanks for confirming.
<skaet> Dapper Drake (6.06) Server will end of life in June 2011.
<sconklin> Having Dapper gone will be a big load off of us. It's very different to maintain than the subsequent series.
<skaet> :)
<skaet> Any concerns or issues to flag with the approaching EOLs?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel SRU status - sconklin, bjf
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel SRU status - sconklin, bjf
<pitti> just that we can probably retire the remaining -proposed uploads
<sconklin> There will be no more uploads from the stable kernel team for Karmic
<sconklin> unless there's a security emergency
<sconklin> Current status:
<sconklin> Everything is ready to be published as soon as signed off by cert and QA, except for Lucid -
<sconklin> There was a regression in the Lucid kernel that has been fixed with a single change and a new upload to -proposed.
<sconklin> It would be ideal for the new kernel to receive a complete set of tests, but there is relatively low risk in
<sconklin> verifying that the change fixes the regression and performing minimal testing otherwise.
<sconklin> I leave that decision up to the team here and depending on scheduling
<sconklin> ..
<skaet> sconklin,  thanks.
<pitti> right, testing should be proportional to the amount of changes, no objection
<ara> o/
<skaet> go ara
<ara> for the .61 lucid kernel testing
<ara> is there going to be a verification phase and and testing phase?
<ara> ..
<sconklin> There could be, or we could pursue them in parallel since it's only verification of one fix
<ara> we could have try to fit a minimum for certification testing next week
<ara> or later this week
<ara> i.e. aiming to run the tests against ~30 systems rather than 100
<sconklin> I'm comfortable with that
<skaet> fitting in QA testing is probably going to be a concern,  depends on how natty testing goes.
<skaet> anyone from QA around?  (/me just saw jibel drop)
<pedro_> o/
<bjf> ara, how long does it take to run the tests on all 100?
<ara> bjf, it can take up to two days
<skaet> pedro_, is there bandwidth at the later part of the week to check out the lucid kernel?
<bjf> ara, thanks, that's good info to know
<sconklin> as far as I know, there's no huge hurry to get this kernel out
<skaet> sconklin,  that's good to know.
<pedro_> skaet, yes, if it gets verified soon we can work on it after ISO Testing and before that as well, meaning tomorrow and Friday
<skaet> pedro_, ok,  am thinking we'll be iso testing tomorrow as well, but Friday is possible.
<skaet> good to know.
<skaet> any more questions for sconklin?
 * skaet looks around ...
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA status - pedro_
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA status - pedro_
<skaet> pedro_, do you have something prepared, or should we skip?
<pedro_> hello, We've verified the Maverick kernel last week, you can see the full results of that here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelSRU-maverick-2.6.35-28.50
<skaet> :)
<pedro_> the issues listed there are not regressions, that verification was added to the security script after the kernel came out
<pedro_> that's already fixed by the security team in their branch
<pedro_> Lucid .60 was also verified last week but later on that testing cycle a regression was found by a community member so we stop
<pedro_> but in case you want to see the results, the wiki page is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelSRU-lucid-2.6.32-31.60
<pedro_> the errors listed there are GCC ones/script ones and not regressions
<pedro_> and btw if you want to see all the results there's a new page with those: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelSRUResults
<pedro_> ..
<skaet> Thanks pedro!
<skaet> 2.6.35-28.50-generic/amd64 (KVM) with DBENCH failed.   is this anything to worry about?
<skaet> (on maverick results.. )
<pedro_> skaet, nope that's one issue that only hggdh is able to reproduce in his kvm installation
<pedro_> so no regression there either
<skaet> ok,  thanks.
<skaet> any other questions?
<pedro_> you're welcome
<skaet> [TOPIC] HW certification - ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  HW certification - ara
<ara> o/
<ara> As usual, our reports for the current SRU cycle are located at:
<ara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/
<ara> We got a coverage of 102/105 in Lucid and 105/116 in Maverick. Remember that this is the first cycle where we aim to test all the certified systems, rather than 75 systems for each release of the previous cycles.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/
<ara> No regressions were found. We have updated both tracking bugs with this information.
<ara> ..
<skaet> Thanks ara!
<skaet> is there a summary of the tracking bugs anywhere?
<skaet> (for the failing systems....)
<ara> sorry?
<skaet> for the systems that failed lucid 3,  maverick 11
<bjf> skaet, what are you looking for in a summary ?
 * skaet should not have used the word tracking... sorry.
<ara> No, those were failing due to problems with the infrastructure
<skaet> ara,  ok,  that's what I was trying to figure out.  :)
<skaet> and the answer I was hoping to hear ;)
<ara> (due to going up from 75 to all systems and finding issues on our way to reach all the systems)
<ara> it will get better .)
<ara> :)
<skaet> :)
<skaet> any other questions for ara?
<skaet> [TOPIC] general SRU status - pitti
<MootBot> New Topic:  general SRU status - pitti
<pitti> by and large business as usuall
<pitti> no current issues to report
<skaet> ..?
<pitti> ..
<pitti> sorry
<skaet> Thanks pitti. :)
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Support priorities - martin-support
<MootBot> New Topic:  Support priorities - martin-support
<martins-support> I have two
<martins-support> first one is the Segmentation fault trigger in ruby
<martins-support> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ruby1.8/+bug/670571
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 670571 in rails (Ubuntu) "Segmentation fault in Marshal.load" [High,Fix released]
<martins-support> appears that there is confusion to what the bug is
<martins-support> that it is not fixed upstream, I have mixed messaging on the status
<skaet> Daviey, ^^^ around?
<Daviey> skaet, o/
<martins-support> second SRU I am tracking is the open-likewise
<martins-support> I think this is fixed, just need to have package to test
 * Daviey reads
<Daviey> so, it's not sure if it is a bug with ruby or rails
<Daviey> rails can trigger a seg fault in ruby
<Daviey> I have fixed the bug in rails... but is it still and issue with core ruby?
<martins-support> I can have the pse run through the test case again
<Daviey> I'm not sure if or how to progress past thigs
<Daviey> this*
<Daviey> martins-support, please do.
<Daviey> (on natty)
<martins-support> ok, I will have a sync with you and etienne, thanks
<Daviey> martins-support, Or i can upload the fix to a Lucid PPA.
<martins-support> no, not yet, but its not what they want
<martins-support> thats all I have
<martins-support> thanks
<skaet> martins-support, is there a bug for the open-likewise issue, or some specific help needed from someone?
<martins-support> I think colin is on it already, just giving the status that we have not tested it yet
<skaet> thanks martins-support.  :)
<skaet> any questions for support?
<skaet> [TOPIC] OEM priorities - vanhoof
<MootBot> New Topic:  OEM priorities - vanhoof
 * skaet looks around for vanhoof ...
<skaet> [TOPIC] New business, last chance for general questions?
<MootBot> New Topic:  New business, last chance for general questions?
<skaet> ok,  not seeing any hands....
<skaet> so think this is probably a good time to end.
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:40.
<sconklin> Thanks!
<pedro_> thanks all
<ara> thanks all!
<skaet> thanks, sconklin, bjf,  pedro_, ara, pitti, marttin_support
<martins-support> thanks skaet
<vanhoof> skaet: sorry was on another screen, all is well on my end presently
<skaet> vanhoof,   cool
<skaet> thanks
<vanhoof> skaet: np :)
<ScottK> skaet: FYI, KDE 4.5.5 is in queue for Maverick -proposed/updates.
<skaet> ScottK,  what's the system integration testing planned for KDE 4.5.5 before it goes out from -proposed/updates?
 * skaet also figures we should probably move this to #ubuntu-release
<ScottK> skaet: It's been tested for a lot time in ~kubuntu-ppa.  Once it's in maverick-proposed we'll call for additional testing.
<ScottK> lot/long
<skaet> ScottK,  ok, so we'll be looking for your ok or Riddell's then, after the testing is in, before moving to -updates?
<ScottK> Yes.  The standard whine at pitti until he agrees we've tested it enough.
<skaet> fair enough.   Should I add you to the agenda for the next couple of SRU meetings then, so we can track this a bit?
<skaet> ScottK, ^^ ?
<ScottK> I don't think it's necessary.  I think it's adequately tracked through the normal SRU process.
<ScottK> SInce it's not LTS, there's no respin implications.
<skaet> ScottK,  ok.  Meeting is SRU and LTS,  and I was just a bit concerned there may be interacations with some kernel graphics drivers, etc. to worry about - so would be useful for the other teams to be aware.   But lets see how it goes, and if all works smoothly no reason to make the meeting longer ;)
<jdstrand> hi!
<jjohansen> \o
<mdeslaur> hello
<jdstrand> alright, I guess we'll start
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:17. The chair is jdstrand.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> afaik, the comodo aftermath should be all done as of last week. thanks micahg (I think chromium may be pending?)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I had a short week last week and am in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> I am working on 2 kde updates right now (kde4libs and kdenetwork)
<jdstrand> the former should be uploaded to the security ppa in a little bit
<jdstrand> there are a number of bugs I need to follow up on-- a couple which will be rather time consuming (two different kernel bisections). I'm going to try to get to them this week
<jdstrand> archive admin for beta-2
<jjohansen> jdstrand: anything you want to point me at there?
<jdstrand> and more with performance reviews
<jdstrand> jjohansen: well, they are kernel bugs seemingly unique to my hardware-- the kvm guest corruption and then a video driver issue
<jdstrand> jjohansen: thanks for the offer though. I may have some questions on the process as I haven't done a kernel bisection in a while, but we'll see how it goes
<jjohansen> jdstrand: right, well I have access to a big machine for building bisected kernels if you want :)
<jdstrand> jjohansen: thanks for the offer though
<jdstrand> jjohansen: ah, well, maybe I will then :)
<jdstrand> jjohansen: thanks!
<jdstrand> I also will be working on the usn microsite this week. it is hoped to go live soon (and the usn databse needs to be updated for those USNs where the isummary was not updated)
<jdstrand> (more on the usn microsite later)
<jdstrand> I have several things to bring up after the standup reports
<jdstrand> kees: you're up
<kees> okay, last week, I did a bunch of stuff with unity
<kees> first, complaining about it, then opening bugs
<kees> did my patch pilot cycle
<kees> been trying to catch up on the state of kernel hardening again. some things have changed recently at redhat, so who manages nx-emu is up in the air again
<kees> trying to get ahead of my email too. down to 82 in my inbox. unfortunately they're all "hard" emails. :)
<kees> this coming week I was going to poke around at the beta + qrt and see if anything pops out
<kees> there are some kernel USNs coming down the pipe
<kees> that's it from me.
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're next
<jdstrand> kees: thanks
<mdeslaur> okie dokie
<mdeslaur> I'm currently testing dhcpd3 updates, will publish them this afternoon
<mdeslaur> and have some more updates to test
<mdeslaur> will probably be publishing them this week
<mdeslaur> and then, I'm going down the list
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: re dhcp3> that is the one you pushed to natty last week?
<mdeslaur> nothing too exciting :)
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: yes
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
 * jdstrand did a dhcp/natty upload today for an apparmor fix and wanted to make sure we were on the same page
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: I'm on page 37, last paragraph
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: cool, me too
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: what's that in kindle terms, 28%?
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: hehe, yeah it's the same CVE as the one in natty that I uploaded friday
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: 1104-1324 whatever that means :)
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<jdstrand> hehe
<sbeattie> Let's see, I'm on triage this week.
<sbeattie> I'm also currently working on php5 and ia32-libs.
<sbeattie> I poked around last week a bit with the jenkins packaging ppa (continuous integration tool), and have made good progress on getting automated apparmor builds going.
<sbeattie> I'm also eyeing jenkins for some qa-r-t automation.
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<jdstrand> cool :)
<jdstrand> micahg_: you're next
<micahg_> so, there's still a chromium update lingering, but we're blocked on the password loss regression
<micahg_> there should be a round of mozilla updates to test soon
<jdstrand> micahg_: what is the status of the password loss? is upstream doing anything about it?
<micahg_> and I hope to start working through natty QRT testing
<micahg_> jdstrand: doesn't seem like it
<jdstrand> micahg_: aiui, if we upload people lose access to all their saved passwords. is that correct?
<micahg_> most probably, yes
<jdstrand> micahg_: does it stay broken or can people start saving again and it works?
<micahg_> jdstrand: they can start saving again, but there will be another update later which might "fix" it later
<jdstrand> micahg_: so then they end up with 2 different password databases (essentially)?
<micahg_> yes
<jdstrand> ugh
<jdstrand> micahg_: and there is no movement upstream?
<micahg_> maybe even 3 depending on the setup (GNOME, KDE, internal)
<micahg_> doesn't seem to be, they promise to fix it later and give workarounds
<jdstrand> was the problem caused because we (ie Ubuntu chromium maintainer) used the new password functionality two early (ie did we enable something experimental)? are any of these workarounds things that can be packaged?
<jdstrand> micahg_: ^
<jdstrand> s/two/too/
<micahg_> jdstrand: no, it's because one of the new features in Chromium 10 interacts poorly with the GNOME keyring
 * jdstrand shakes head
<micahg_> fta was looking into packaging one of the workarounds, but the problem is, it doesn't work all the time
<jdstrand> this is a very poor user experience and a bad position to be in
<mdeslaur> so basically, it's either security, or no lost passwords?
 * mdeslaur votes for security
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: well yes. the thing is we thought it would be fixed by now
<micahg_> is there a possibility of sending out a USN just for this one instance?
<jdstrand> it is to the point where we need to get the update out though
<jdstrand> micahg_: we could, but I'd rather not. it wouldn't reach all the users anyway
<jdstrand> I was thinking maybe a NEWS file
<jdstrand> that is a big hammer though
<micahg_> yeah, we could do that, but how many people read those?
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur, sbeattie: ^ opinions?
<jdstrand> micahg_: the NEWS file will pop up on every upgrade. I don't think update-manager can suppress those
<kees> hmmm
<mdeslaur> I think we should just push out the update. People who are using upstream's package will have gotten the new update anyway, and this is exactly the type of problem we expected when we started doing full version updates
<jdstrand> I think that it is also very important to note this situation if chromium is ever considered for main
<kees> yeah, agreed on both counts.
<kees> I don't think NEWS file is needed.
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: I agree we should push the update. I am just trying to improve on the poor upstream user experience
<kees> jdstrand: I think that's unforutnately in the upstream's hands :(
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: unfortunately, this is the way upstream wants us to handle it
<jdstrand> I don't think upstream said anything about the NEWS file. not being daft, but we are packaging something that is separate from their official chrome
<jdstrand> as such, I think there is a responsibility to try to help the users. the NEWS file may not be that
<mdeslaur> oh, I wasn't talking about the NEWS file
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: sorry, I read kees' comment first, then yours, so misinterpreted
<jdstrand> kees: can you elaborate on your NEWS file opinion?
<kees> jdstrand: it's not a strongly held opinion. :) I just think it's a bit of overkill
<kees> jdstrand: but perhaps it is the best way to communicate the change
 * mdeslaur thinks about 2 people will read the NEWS file
<sbeattie> is the "reboot required" notification generalizable?
<jdstrand> kees: I agree it is a huge hammer, but I'm not sure what else to do
<jdstrand> I thought the NEWS file showed up on all upgrades...
 * jdstrand could be wrong
<kees> I don't think update-manager shows them, but I could be wrong. I haven't tested that in a long while
<jdstrand> I specifically remember that we actively chose not to use a NEWS file in the openssl issue from a couple of years ago
<jdstrand> well, if it doesn't display in update-manager, then it doesn't matter
<jdstrand> the changelog should be heavily commented then
<jdstrand> micahg_: can you and fta coordinate that and the practicality of a NEWS file?
<micahg_> jdstrand: yes
<jdstrand> micahg_: thanks
<jdstrand> micahg_: what is going on with wekit?
<micahg_> jdstrand: back burner still, will try to get out the update before EOM, but it'll be tight
<jdstrand> micahg_: please make it your highest priority-- ahead of qrt. feel free to coordinate the chromium work though
<jdstrand> micahg_: the rest of the team can do the qrt stuff
<micahg_> jdstrand: ok, there are also another round of mozilla updates for next tuesday, should it go ahead of that?
<jdstrand> meh
<micahg_> jdstrand: heh, nm, that was just pushed back a week :)
<jdstrand> micahg_: please get them building like chrisccoulson would do, so that if they don't have changes we don't have to wait on the builds and do last minute testing
<jdstrand> micahg_: sounds like you have your work cut out for you (again :)
<jdstrand> micahg_: anything else for this week?
<micahg_> jdstrand: ok, will do later this week (builds won't be created until Wed)
<micahg_> jdstrand: I think that's enough for me :)
<jdstrand> micahg_: thanks!
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> looks like the hardy desktop EOL announcement went out today and the EOL is may 12th
<jdstrand> that is not optimal, but I discussed with the release team and we will be in on the conversations for EOL delays going forward
<jdstrand> performance reviews are entered into the system for everyone, but there is more I need to do this week
<ScottK> "Dapper needs another year of support.  Kthnxbye."
<ScottK> ;-)
<jdstrand> heh
<jdstrand> that is not funny :)
<jdstrand> we need to be thinking about UDS topics
<jdstrand> if people can make an individual list of things to move forward, things to revisit and new stuff to work on, that would be great
<jdstrand> we can discuss those in the next week or so as a team and get bps, going, etc, etc
<micahg_> jdstrand: where are we consolidating those ideas?
<jdstrand> micahg_: no where yet-- just make a personal list for now, jotting down what you think of
<micahg_> k
<jdstrand> s/no where/nowhere/
<jdstrand> so, this might be a UDS topic (as apparmor upstream), but at this point, what can we do to get apparmor kernel and userspace tools into Debian?
<ScottK> Get kees to upload them?
<jdstrand> profiles aren't as big of a deal, but it would be nice if people could apt-get it
<jjohansen> ugh, good question
<jdstrand> ScottK: I think there is kernel coordination involved there
<jdstrand> jjohansen: is it possible to just have Debian enable apparmor without the compat patches with our current tools?
<jdstrand> jjohansen: or even just apparmor_parser?
 * jdstrand is less concerned about the profiles atm
<jjohansen> jdstrand: yes
<jjohansen> its just the tools that break
<jdstrand> jjohansen: so profile generation by hand should work ok, correct?
<jjohansen> yep
<jjohansen> even initscript load
<jjohansen> just to restart
<jdstrand> maybe our first step should be to get it enabled in the kernel, and then ship the initscript and the parser only
<jdstrand> (and abstractions, and other stuff that isn't broken)
<jdstrand> kees: ^ what do you think?
<jdstrand> well, we can revisit that later
<jjohansen> jdstrand: I believe the kernel objection was that it could not be built as a module
<jdstrand> the last thing I have is the usn microsite
<jjohansen> this is pretty much impossible to change
<jdstrand> that is the case for any lsm, no?
<kees> (sorry, distracted, reading)
<jjohansen> jdstrand: yep
<jjohansen> though tomoyo has put work into making an additional stub layer to achieve it
<kees> Debian refused to enable apparmor in their kernel
<kees> even without the compat patches
<kees> so I didn't bother uploading apparmor userspace to Debian
<jjohansen> right
<sbeattie> kees: was there a specific objection?
<jdstrand> that seems a pretty ridiculous objection since there isn't upstream support for that and they have selinux in there
<kees> sbeattie: nope
<kees> jdstrand: right. hard to refute a baseless objection
<jdstrand> Debian has tomoyo userspace though...
<jdstrand> is tomoyo not in their kernel either?
<kees> I didn't see the benefit of putting the userspace tools into debian (and the overhead of coordination with ubuntu) if it's not in the debian kernel. correct, tomoyo isn't in the debian kernel either.
 * jdstrand shakes head
<kees> sbeattie: actually, the objection was "kernel image size", IIRC
<jdstrand> insanity
<kees> jdstrand: if there's a reason to put it in Debian, sure, I'll go upload it right now. :P
<jdstrand> kees: we should probably at least document our efforts and their refute
<jdstrand> kees: I'm not sure the best place for that
<ScottK> How long ago was the rejection?
<kees> jdstrand: where would you like me to link to the mailing list posts?
<ScottK> IIRC kernel coordination with Debian is better now that a couple of years ago.
<kees> ScottK: 3 months? they refused it during the most recent kernel team face-to-face meeting (in france?)
<jdstrand> kees: well, that's the thing isn't it? I'm not sure
<ScottK> Oh.  OK.
<kees> ScottK: yeah, I was pretty disappointed.
<jdstrand> kees: I guess the apparmor wiki
<kees> jdstrand: okay
<ScottK> I can imagine.
<kees> seemed like such a no-brainer. oh well
<jdstrand> as upstream, we should at least make it easy for people to get the tools if the recompile with apparmor... but that doesn't have to be discussed here
<jdstrand> ok, moving on...
<jdstrand> the last thing I have is the usn microsite
<jdstrand> a staging site is up now
<kees> oooh
<sbeattie> yay!
 * jdstrand is getting the url
<jdstrand> http://staging.www.ubuntu.com/usn/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://staging.www.ubuntu.com/usn/
<jdstrand> if people can look at that ^ and compare with http://people.canonical.com/~jamie/new-usns/usn-1050.html, that would be great
<jdstrand> I have three things so far:
<jdstrand> 1. References has a trainling period
<jdstrand> 2. dashes outside of the text looks kinda weird
<jdstrand> 3. need to update isummary for USNs that still have default text (that's on our team)
<jdstrand> for now, feel free to look around, etc. the api should be available to actually add and edit usns, but I haven't played with it yet
<jdstrand> I will be doing that this week and updating our wiki
<kees> 2) this has _got_ to get fixed. it makes the wiki unreadable too.
<kees> jdstrand: this is being populated directly from the pickle?
<jdstrand> kees: yes
<kees> jdstrand: zomg, that _ROCKS_
<micahg_> so no more staging to sync?
<jdstrand> kees: we will update the pickle file like we normally would, then hit a special url and the microsite gets updated automagically
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: if they are html...why are we using dashed instead of a proper html list?
<micahg_> \o/
<jdstrand> micahg_: once this is live, correct
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: I didn't write it-- it might be a django thing
<kees> jdstrand: I'd like to see the title actually used correctly. Right now each usn is named "Ubuntu security notices".
<ScottK> You aren't going to email them out in html are you?
<kees> i.e. http://staging.www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-1106-1/ should be titled "Nss vulnerabilities" in <title> and at the top of the page (instead of in tiny font under the date)
<kees> ScottK: nooo no no
<sbeattie> ScottK: only for your adress.
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: oh, ok...you are using <dd>...that's ok...I thought you were doing dashes
<kees> lol @ sbeattie
<jdstrand> ScottK: no, but the plaintext formatting will mimic the site
<jdstrand> kees: good point
 * ScottK relaxes.
<jdstrand> kees: interestingly, the diverges from what we agreed on in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/USNSpec
<jdstrand> kees: however, that page uses a plain text formatting, so it isn't obviously a problem there
<kees> jdstrand: that doesn't mention title at all
<kees> jdstrand: but compare to http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-610-1
<jdstrand> kees: not <title>, no, but it the 1st and 2nd lines
<jdstrand> kees: ack. will fix <title>, I also think the teeny text is wrong in the actual usn
<kees> jdstrand: oh, I don't mind it being repeated there. I just want it in <h1> and <title> instead of the rather useless "Ubuntu security notices" there
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> will get that fixed
<kees> what's the plan for dealing with Summary and Software description?
<jdstrand> basically me going through them
<kees> heh, owchy
<jdstrand> I'm not sure what else can be done
 * jdstrand tried to tell people to adjust those all along ;)
<kees> well, if people used the standard template, you could just drop those entries
<jdstrand> I didn't actually 'tell', I encouraged... I guess I'll pay for that now
<jdstrand> kees: true. that might be the wa to go
<jdstrand> alright. I think the meeting has gone on long enough
<sbeattie> jdstrand: surely we can split up the effort?
<jdstrand> please talk to me out of this meeting on improvements to the site
<sbeattie> or yeah, dropping's not the worst thing, either.
<kees> I think dropping the "bad" entries is the way to go. Going forward, it should be treated as required.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: we can discuss. I think dropping is probably fine.
<jdstrand> hmmm
<kees> additionally, we may want to start creating a "database" of our software descriptions.
<jdstrand> there are some issues with older USNs
<kees> jdstrand: why? it just seems to leave out the missing sections
<jdstrand> eg http://staging.www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-372-1/
<jdstrand> Software description is empty
<jdstrand> there are no package versions
<kees> that's a bug in the parser then
<jdstrand> no package info
<jdstrand> probably
 * jdstrand didn't write that either
 * jdstrand didn't write any of it tbh :)
<jdstrand> anyhoo
<jdstrand> feel free to review
<jdstrand> does anyone have any other questions?
<kees> where are the bugs tracked for it?
<jdstrand> kees: write now nowhere, I am talking directly with them. can just give to me for the next few days
<jdstrand> jeez
<jdstrand> s/write/right/
<jdstrand> (what kind of a typo was that?!?
<micahg_> a homophonic one?
<jdstrand> it was lame, that is all I know
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:44.
<jdstrand> thanks everyone! :)
<micahg_> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> heh, thanks.
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<kees> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-12
<SergioMeneses> buenas...
<zul> hi
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<kirkland> o/
<smb>  /o\
<JFo>  /o/ \o\ /o/
<JFo> :)
<smb> JFo, Just in case this will be the server team meeting I believe. ;)
<JFo> yeah
 * JFo lurks
<SpamapS> RoAkSoAx: do not suffer the lazy and tardy.. I suggest that you begin! :)
<RoAkSoAx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:01. The chair is RoAkSoAx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jamespage> o/
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<RoAkSoAx> First of:
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey to submit UDS-O topic for translations and docs
<RoAkSoAx> what's the status
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: ?
<Daviey> I've spoken to David P about it... he seems excited, and will certianlly attend
<Daviey> So it's essentially done, it will happen - just not drafted
<Daviey> Mark as done
<Daviey> sorry for being brief - otp.
<RoAkSoAx> alrighty!
<RoAkSoAx> let's move on then
<RoAkSoAx> jamespage to helpout with verification of euca-dhcp bug
<zul> i think thats been done
<robbiew> o.
<robbiew> o/
<jamespage> Verified - yes - by me - no - required - no - so mark as DONE
<robbiew> sorry..late
<RoAkSoAx> jamespage: awesome!
<RoAkSoAx> jamespage to discover process/location for fixing ubuntu server documentation
<jamespage> OK - so docs here are now up-to-date : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#Documentor resources
<jamespage> We where not far off TBH - loads of stuff on the documentation team wiki pages as well
<smoser> o/'
<RoAkSoAx> any further action to be taken?
<jamespage> not from my perspective
<RoAkSoAx> alrighty then. Let's move on then
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Natty Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Development
<RoAkSoAx> robbiew: ^^
<robbiew> so...I'd like to propose Daviey take this section over ;)
<SpamapS> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server.html
<SpamapS> still a few items remaining
 * Daviey is off the phone
<robbiew> I can cut and paste links...as above ;)
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: go for it :)
<robbiew> in terms of development...I'm more interested in Bugs now anyway
<Daviey> Sorry, somewhat unprepared.
<robbiew> any remaining work items should be universe related or non-code
<robbiew> Daviey: no worries...I'm always that way :P
<Daviey> I think mainly, people need to make sure the blueprints are updated.
<SpamapS> Daviey: do we still have an auto-generated report from the server-n* tags ?
<Daviey> SpamapS, Yes
<Daviey> That is what i've mainly been tracking this week tbh.. it's more uselful at this stage for specific bug tracking,than WI.
<Daviey> IMO
<SpamapS> awesome. ;)
<Daviey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=server-nrs
<SpamapS> WI is almost done anyway, so yeah bugs are where its at. :)
<RoAkSoAx> awesome then
<RoAkSoAx> anyone has anything to add?
<SpamapS> Should show milestoned bugs as purple on the WI tracker. ;)
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, ok to move on...
<RoAkSoAx> alright, I guess there's nothing else,
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<Daviey> but make sure WI's are up to date :)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<RoAkSoAx> any event coming up?
<SpamapS> TOMORROW I'm speaking at the MySQL User's Conference about Drizzle in Natty
<RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: \o/
<SpamapS> Santa Clara, CA .. be there, or be square.
<zul> ill be there...just not this week
<jamespage> Good luck SpamapS - is it due to be video cast?
<SpamapS> jamespage: not likely, its a massive event.
<Daviey> SpamapS, Looking forward to reading your blog post about it :)
<SpamapS> jamespage: and it will be at 3:15pm UTC -0700 ..
<RoAkSoAx> maybe would be a good thing to video tape all the events/talks on which ubuntu server member participate, to share them with the community
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, Thanks for volunteering to be the team camera man.
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: no worries if I can travel lol :)
<zul> you stole my soull..
<RoAkSoAx> anyway, let's move on
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<RoAkSoAx> hggdh: you are up
<Daviey> hey hggdh o/
<hggdh> yo
 * SpamapS just finished downloading the latest iso's
<hggdh> going thru euca now
<SpamapS> its ISO testing time yes?
<Daviey> SpamapS, cautionary
<hggdh> initial ISO tests via jenkins are all done, with success except for ec2 -- will discuss with jamespage
<Daviey> The current posted ISO will be deprecated later today, so not too much investment... But sniffing is useful.
<jamespage> hggdh - they have not been run yet.
<hggdh> jamespage: they _were_ running this morning (mine morning)
<Daviey> hggdh / jamespage: Is there any news on email failures of failed jenkins tests?
<hggdh> Daviey: no, yet to look at it
<Daviey> ok, thanks
<jamespage> hggdh: that was some adhoc testing to determine whether we where still getting network failures on startup - looked OK
<hggdh> I think it would be more productive to discuss jenkins usage on UDS -- where we would like it to go
<hggdh> instead of just ad-hoc additions
<hggdh> jamespage: roger, thanks
<jamespage> hggdh: agree
<RoAkSoAx> alright, I guess a session will be held at UDS
<RoAkSoAx> anything else to add?
<hggdh> ..
<hggdh> :-)
<RoAkSoAx> moving one then
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<Daviey> one mo
<smb> evening
<Daviey> hggdh, are you going to drive a blueprint on that?
<Daviey> (sorry smb)
 * smb waits
<hggdh> Daviey: I can. Under QA, you mind?
<Daviey> hggdh, that sounds like a good place!
<Daviey> Thanks
<Daviey> smb, Hi o/
<smb> I am good to go? :)
<RoAkSoAx> smb: the floor is yours now :)
<smb> Ok, I try to leave as qquickly
<smb> Basically main task is still going on lucid-ec2 patches
<smb> now at 16 new and 35 changed of the 147 to go
<Daviey> smb, Do you have the bug numbers handy?
<smb> That has not yet a bug number
<Daviey> Are they tagged?
<smb> I will need to create one of "bring our patchset up to date with the one we were taking our  patches from"
<zul> smb: may god have mercy on your soul
<Daviey> smb, sounds good to me... We appreciate this :)
<smb> I had been booting somewhere in the middle on ec2 and it surprisingly worked
<SpamapS> Have we run automated ec2 tests since bug 731878 was fixed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 731878 in Linux "shutdown(2) behavior changed in kernel" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/731878
<smb> But ok, atm it does not compile again
<smb> SpamapS, Hm, I don't know
<jamespage> SpamapS: yes - I was unable to run in all regions but I did not see any instances failing to startup - http://jenkins.qa.ubuntu-uk.org/view/natty-ec2/job/natty_server_ec2_adhoc/5/
<smb> In the spare time I only looked over bug 751253
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 751253 in linux (Ubuntu) "Many interrupts and slow disk I/O on Lucid xen guest" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751253
<smb> But really that sounds a bit like maybe xen version or actually a lot of traffic as that machine had 500GB going out in 5 days
<SpamapS> jamespage: will keep fingers crossed that it was indeed this kernel bug. :)
<jamespage> SpamapS: me to!
<RoAkSoAx> alright, anything else to add?
<smb> I would not have more if there are no questions
<RoAkSoAx> anyone with questions?
<RoAkSoAx> I guess not. Moving on:
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<RoAkSoAx> I believe it is time for us to consider removing this topic from the agenda
<SpamapS> Well
<RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: have you been in recent contact with sommer?
<SpamapS> I'd like to see the contact person changed.
<RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: sounds like you are volunteering :)
<SpamapS> RoAkSoAx: no, but I haven't tried much. Adam has moved on for now. :-/
<SpamapS> I would love to do it, but I doubt I'd be very effective at actually getting things done.
<RoAkSoAx> I guess that for now we can remove the item from the agenda till we have a replacement to cover this topic
<RoAkSoAx> any objections?
<RoAkSoAx> I'll take that as a yes to remove it from the agenda then
<RoAkSoAx> ok, so moving on
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<kim0> Howdy everyone o/ .. Got a quick announcement to make
<kim0> I will be running a weekly community IRC meeting for the Ensemble team. This will be run in #ubuntu-cloud starting tomorrow at 6pm-UTC, it will be merged with the older community meeting. Everyone attending this meeting is a good candidate to attend tomorrow's
<kim0> That meeting will provide a high level overview of development in the Ensemble world since last meeting/week
<kim0> I'm writing an announcement on http://cloud.ubuntu.com/ right now, which I'll mirror on planet, and everyone is encouraged to spread/tweet...etc
<kim0> That's all for me
<RoAkSoAx> awesome!
<RoAkSoAx> anyone else with questions/suggestions/or anything?
<RoAkSoAx> let's move on then
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<SpamapS> Oh hah I missed that.
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: anyone else throwing a Natty Release Party?
 * SpamapS would like to thank Time Warner's extreme lag for that wrong/window
<kim0> hehe
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland: throught FL yes... miami... uhmmm it is hard enough to get an Ubuntu hour
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: here's one we're having in Austin: http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2011/04/austins-natty-release-party.html
<zul> ill be doing my customary release party thing...sleeping
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland: unfortunately, not even my Univerty's LUG is that much involved in events
<kirkland> zul: heh
<kirkland> zul: don't get toooo excited now
<RoAkSoAx> ok so anyone else attending/organizing a release party?
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: apparently not :-)
<RoAkSoAx> or is everybody gonna party with zul in their dreams?
<zul> that sounds bad
<RoAkSoAx> heheh
 * RoAkSoAx blames it to the language barrier
<RoAkSoAx> :P
<kirkland> well, I'm going to drink a beer in celebration of Natty, and one more in looking forward to Oneiric
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland: +1. I might do it alone but at least I'll have a beer
<RoAkSoAx> anyways.
<RoAkSoAx> let's end the meeting
<RoAkSoAx> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time Tuesday, April 19th 2011 16:00 UTC
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time Tuesday, April 19th 2011 16:00 UTC
<RoAkSoAx> see you all next week same time/place
<RoAkSoAx> #endmeeting
<kirkland> \o
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:36.
<JFo> o/
<apw> o/
<herton> o/
<sconklin> \o
<jjohansen> \o
<sforshee> o/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (10 bugs, 8 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Beta 2 Milestoned Bugs (43 across all packages (down 21)) ====
<JFo>  * 4 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap4 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap4 bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (244 across all packages (down 28)) ====
<JFo>  * 32 linux kernel bugs (up 5)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-ti-omap4 bugs (changed to package omap4)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap4 bug (changed to package omap4)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 6 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Maverick Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 6 Linux Bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== Lucid Updates Bugs ====
<JFo> changed to only reflect linux package bugs
<JFo>  * 15 Linux Bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:86 (down 1) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<JFo> * nothing to report today
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)
<apw> o/
<apw> The natty kernel is now at v2.6.38-8.42 (v2.6.38.2 based) [thank you Leann], following the upstream stable branch.  Following some uploads for compiler changes we are now frozen for the natty-beta-2 release.  We are also going to be in Kernel Freeze by the itime we come out of beta freeze.  This implies that from now on we will only take high priority bugs before release.  It also implies we now need full SRU acks for all changes.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || All kernels in this cycle are awaiting signoff by certification and QA, and are then ready to be published.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || The Lucid kernel was respun after verification to add a single patch that resolves a regression. This single
<sconklin> || patch was cherry-picked from the set of upstream stable patches which are currently queued for the next
<sconklin> || Lucid update, and therefore does not requrie verification.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || dapper   linux-source-2.6.15               || 2.6.15-57.94         || 2.6.15-57.95         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || karmic   linux-ec2                         || 2.6.31-308.28        || 2.6.31-308.29        ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.31-23.74         || 2.6.31-23.75         ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || lucid    linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-314.27        || 2.6.32-315.28        ||    5 ||        5 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.32.30.23         || 2.6.32.31.23         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || 2.6.35.25.36         || 2.6.35.28.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-28.50~lucid1  ||   13 ||       13 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-30.29         || 2.6.32-31.31         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.34.4               || 1.34.7               ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-30.59         || 2.6.32-31.61         ||    5 ||        5 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.32.30.36         || 2.6.32.31.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.32.314.15        || 2.6.32.315.16        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || maverick linux-backports-modules-2.6.35    || 2.6.35-28.19         || 2.6.35-28.20         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ti-omap4                    || 2.6.35-903.21        || 2.6.35-903.22        ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.38.5               || 1.38.6               ||    2 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-28.49         || 2.6.35-28.50         ||    7 ||        7 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo>  655 Natty Bugs (up 81)
<JFo>  1255 Maverick Bugs (up 3)
<JFo>  1064 Lucid Bugs (up 3)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 47 maverick bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 77 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 6 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 335 natty bugs (up 48)
<JFo>   * 249 maverick bugs (up 3)
<JFo>   * 223 lucid bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 38 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 17 natty bugs (up 2)
<JFo>   * 1 maverick bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 0 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> nothing to report
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> nothing to report
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:04.
<JFo> thanks bjf that is a record
<JFo> :)
<sconklin> a new record!
<sconklin> Thanks
<apw> speedy indeed :)
<ppisati> a new record :)
<smb> There has been a meeting? :-P
 * wendar waves
<wendar> Who's here for the ARB meeting?
 * stgraber waves
 * wendar pinging others
<wendar> we may not have enough people for voting, but we can at least do status updates
<wendar> #startmeeting
<wendar> [TOPIC] Review action items
<wendar> [LINK] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:12. The chair is wendar.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review action items
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda
<wendar> stgraber: I don't know of any progress on the actions from last meeting, do you?
<stgraber> nope, there wasn't anything on the mailing-list, so I guess it's safe to carry them all over to the next meeting
<wendar> carried over
<wendar> [TOPIC] Proposal Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Proposal Review
<wendar> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-app-review-board
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-app-review-board
<wendar> no changes on existing proposals
<stgraber> hmm, not sure why suspended-sentence is still listed on the wiki, it's been on extras.u.c for a while now
<stgraber> pytask still hasn't moved a bit (waiting for new version)
<wendar> good point, I'll remove suspended-sentence
<wendar> there's an update proposal for the news app
<stgraber> we have a new version of news that needs reviewing. I can take it as I did a quick review of the previous version
<stgraber> do, you were faster :)
<stgraber> *doh
<wendar> :)
<stgraber> I assigned the news update to me and will review the change soon. Shouldn't be too hard at least, the packaging should already be good
<stgraber> so this one should be ready for approval + upload at our next meeting
<wendar> excellent
<wendar> I think that's it for proposal review
<wendar> [TOPIC] Chair for next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chair for next meeting
<wendar> strgraber: do you want to chair next time?
<wendar> or, should we skip it, since it's release week?
<stgraber> I'd be tempted to skip it as it's release week and we'll all be busy with other stuff
<stgraber> would be cool if we could have quorum for our next meeting
<wendar> our next meeting after release week is at UDS
<stgraber> I'm probably going to ask for other ARB members to go vote for the news update directly in the bug report once it's in good shape
<wendar> so, hopefully we can do it face-to-face
<wendar> that's a good idea
<wendar> we should talk at UDS about making ticket sign-offs the primary voting strategy
<stgraber> yep, meeting at UDS would be good. Not sure how much of ARB is going to be in Budapest, but probably more than we currently have in this meeting anyway :)
<wendar> you, me, mvo, and hopefully ajmitch
<wendar> IIRC, fagan couldn't make it
<wendar> I'll update the agenda to note UDS as the next meeting
<wendar> sounds like a wrap
<stgraber> indeed
<wendar> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:28.
<wendar> thanks, stgraber!
<stgraber> thanks
<mvo> wendar: I'm happy to attend a meeting at UDS
<mvo> (I know I'm later :/)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-13
<MrChrisDruif> Go go go go go go go! :D
<cprofitt> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:00. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cprofitt> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<cprofitt> meeting url
<cprofitt> for agenda
<cprofitt> welcome to the UBT team meeting
<cprofitt> all UBT members who are here please say present
<MrChrisDruif> gift
<cprofitt> all UBT members who are here please say present
<tenach> present.
<MrChrisDruif> Presen
<MrChrisDruif> t
<cprofitt> well... this does not appear to be a good turnout
<MrChrisDruif> Hmmm, not really no
<tenach> :
<tenach> :/
<ddecator> present
<MrChrisDruif> Including chair 4 people?
<cprofitt> yes
<cprofitt> Lets give another few minutes for folks to show up
<cprofitt> one more
<charlie-tca> present
<cprofitt> two more
<cprofitt> welcome jledbetter and charlie-tca
 * jledbetter waves. Sorry, work, etc.
<cprofitt> no problem
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, no problem jledbetter :)
<cprofitt> well,... lets get the meeting off the ground
<cprofitt> I will skep the first proposed topic as none of the new council members appear to be present
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] new Documentation FG lead
<MootBot> New Topic:  new Documentation FG lead
<cprofitt> The council has acted to temporarily fill the vacany in the Documentation Team with UndiFineD
<cprofitt> He will fill the role of team lead until we hold an election
<cprofitt> UndiFineD: is eligible to run for the position
<MrChrisDruif> Who was the previous Doc Lead?
<cprofitt> zkriesse
<MrChrisDruif> Alright :)
<ddecator> sounds good to me
<cprofitt> the next topic was UndiFineD's topic
<cprofitt> there was quite an extensive discussion on the mailing list about various parts of it
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Improving the BT
<MootBot> New Topic:  Improving the BT
 * ddecator wonders if he's not on the ML for some reason
<cprofitt> I think that as a team we will have to break each element down (on the mailing list) and then work towards having a poll to move forward with a team vote
<cprofitt> the issues revolve around some negative conotations concerning the words padawan and master
<MrChrisDruif> Team vote with 6 present?
<cprofitt> and the relative lack of structure for membership
<cprofitt> we will not vote here
<cprofitt> we have not settled on what to vote for
<cprofitt> I do want to frame the discussion a bit
<cprofitt> I do not want to remove 'fun' from being on the team -- we are volunteers
<MrChrisDruif> Agreed
<cprofitt> I do not like that our current choice of labels apparently causes some offense
<ddecator> so the idea is to formalize the process more?
<cprofitt> so I think it would be good to gather some fun alternative names we could use
<cprofitt> in place of Master / Padawan
<jledbetter> fun, hehe
<cprofitt> to be honest the whole concept of master / padawan is really not needed -- to me any member should be capable of guiding another person to be a member
<cprofitt> it just takes a bit of time and knolwedge
<cprofitt> but I can appreciate the enjoyment factor of having titles
<MrChrisDruif> cprofitt: Yes, but not everybody wants to take time to do this. I liked having one fixed person
<cprofitt> so I would like to ask everyone to research some 'titles' we can use w/o removing the fun
<MrChrisDruif> I could talk to when I had questions
<cprofitt> MrChrisDruif: I agree we need a one to one relationship
<DarkwingDuck> lo
<MrChrisDruif> I liked the Guide mentioned in the mailing-list
<MrChrisDruif> Hai DarkwingDuck
<jledbetter> Ditto on guide. That's not "fun" though but I like it all the same:)
<MrChrisDruif> However...Student doesn't do it for me
<cprofitt> [action] consider alternative names -- gather some options and suggest them on the mailing list with an eye towards voting next meeting
<ddecator> Guide and Apprentice
<MootBot> ACTION received:  consider alternative names -- gather some options and suggest them on the mailing list with an eye towards voting next meeting
<jledbetter> cprofitt, Should we mail the list with potential titles? If so, by when?
<MrChrisDruif> It refers to much to school
<jledbetter> nm :)
<MrChrisDruif> ddecator: +1
<charlie-tca> beginner; noobie
<tenach> ddecator: I like that.
<cprofitt> as far as teh suggested timeline and structure...
 * MrChrisDruif suggested it already on the mailing-list ;)
<cprofitt> I have to say that we are a team of volunteers
<cprofitt> some of us have families, jobs and other obligations and those should be respected
<cprofitt> and all levels of participation should be appreciated
<ddecator> aye
<charlie-tca> +1
<cprofitt> that said I do like the idea of developing a simple checklist of the basics
<cprofitt> but the basics have never really been an issue...
<cprofitt> it is the contributions / involvement in the community that is difficult to see at times
<MrChrisDruif> I had a checklist when I was an Apprentice
<ddecator> mainly because it can happen anywhere and we're not everywhere (individually)
 * cprofitt nods
<cprofitt> +1 ddecator
<MrChrisDruif> Support on IRC is difficult to measure
<MrChrisDruif> Gave me some trouble getting membership :P
<cprofitt> I do feel that having prospective members have to document their activity -- add examples to their wiki or get testimonials to be a worthwhile exercise
<cprofitt> as it prepares them if they wish to eventually pursue Ubuntu Memberships
<ddecator> plus it promotes good wiki hygiene
<cprofitt> ddecator: +1
<MrChrisDruif> Indeed
<MrChrisDruif> But some people love to edit their wiki and others just want to help
<ddecator> adding examples to your wiki page shouldn't take long
<cprofitt> I think we can vote on having structure -- and have the council work with the team to create a bit more structure
<MrChrisDruif> And, again, putting IRC support on wiki is kinda tricky :P
<ddecator> MrChrisDruif: true, but worst case, many of us log the channel and can grep the logs if we're skeptical
<cprofitt> I do think that we need to tell people who give IRC support how they could document that...
<cprofitt> there are areas that are difficult... and if we want them to count we need to give a guide on how to show that activity
<cprofitt> any other comments on that?
<ddecator> none so far
<DarkwingDuck> documenting people you helped in IRC is hard
<cprofitt> [vote]The UBT Countil in conjunction with the team should develop a potential structure docmuent for prospective members to follow. This document would then be adopted by a vote in a future meeting
<MootBot> Please vote on: The UBT Countil in conjunction with the team should develop a potential structure docmuent for prospective members to follow. This document would then be adopted by a vote in a future meeting.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<DarkwingDuck> documenting issues you helped with is simplier
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<charlie-tca> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from charlie-tca. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MrChrisDruif> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from MrChrisDruif. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<ddecator> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ddecator. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<DarkwingDuck> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from DarkwingDuck. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<jledbetter> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jledbetter. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<cprofitt> any more votes?
<cprofitt> last call for votes
<MrChrisDruif> Note: correct spelling of course ;)
<cprofitt> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<jledbetter> hehe MrChrisDruif
<cprofitt> [agreed]The UBT Countil in conjunction with the team should develop a potential structure docmuent for prospective members to follow. This document would then be adopted by a vote in a future meeting
<MootBot> AGREED received: The UBT Countil in conjunction with the team should develop a potential structure docmuent for prospective members to follow. This document would then be adopted by a vote in a future meeting
<cprofitt> any other topics?
<ddecator> have a happy natty release everyone :)
<DarkwingDuck> hehe
<cprofitt> I do want to point out, as it has been an issue for some, that the vote we just took authorized the council to do some work. The council does not make decisions unless the team authorized it
<cprofitt> alright since we have no more topics... I would like to go back to an original topic since DarkwingDuck is here
<cprofitt> [topic]New council members - plans
<MootBot> New Topic: New council members - plans
<cprofitt> DarkwingDuck: please tell us some of your plans for the UBT
<cprofitt> or things you would like to see
<DarkwingDuck> well, ever since the Natty UDS i have wanted to see better interaction with the "main" devel teams in Ubuntu
<MrChrisDruif> The document (which will me made with help from the team) will only be adopted with a vote. It was properly defined the vote :)
<DarkwingDuck> either in docs, motu and others
<ddecator> i wonder if our collaboration with the bugsquad can act as a guinea pig for this
 * DarkwingDuck nods
<DarkwingDuck> im also in fairly deep with the guys who write the system docs
<DarkwingDuck> not just kin kubuntu but all the docs
<ddecator> that'd be a good thing for beginners to get involved with
<DarkwingDuck> as a member of the documentation committers i would be more then happy to review and approve patches or docs
<MrChrisDruif> system docs? As in man pages with programs?
<DarkwingDuck> but, the intergration and maybe becoming a "traiining ground" is something i can see us doing
 * ddecator nods
<cprofitt> DarkwingDuck: sounds like we need to get the Doc Committer team lead to approve you as a Mentor for documentation FG
<DarkwingDuck> MrChrisDruif: and the help files that ship with the system
<DarkwingDuck> cprofitt: im game now that the doc freeze for natty is in effect
<DarkwingDuck> but, my plans are to take what ive learned in other teams and seeing how we can train people to move beyond the BT scope
<MrChrisDruif> Good plan DarkwingDuck
<ddecator> +1
<DarkwingDuck> and maybe even have new people who goto bug squad or motu teams get sent to us for training
 * MrChrisDruif is distracted by #lubuntu channel
<DarkwingDuck> there is an untapped potential for training here and we are in the perfect position
<DarkwingDuck> to fill a small void
<DarkwingDuck> the BT helped me get ready for teams with deadlines and i think i can help pass that on
<DarkwingDuck> small dreams. :) back to you cprofitt
<cprofitt> thanks DarkwingDuck
<MrChrisDruif> The whole of Ubuntu is deadline based
<cprofitt> alright... I would like to thank everyone who attended the meeting tonight
<DarkwingDuck> aye
<cprofitt> Have a great night everyone
<cprofitt> [endmeeting]
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks cprofitt :)
<cprofitt> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:36.
<jledbetter> cprofitt, Thank you :)
<DarkwingDuck> ?
<robbiew> o/
<barry> hi
<mvo> hello
<doko> hi
<stgraber> hello
<doko> was there a mumble before? didn't hear anything
<stgraber> doko: yep
<robbiew> doko: yup
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<robbiew> barry?
<barry> bug 748104 (django-ajax-selects ftbfs), bug 748089 (gmobilemedia ftbfs), bug 727649 (matplotlib ftbfs), bug 747236 and bug 719211 (apache-openid ftbfs & conversion to dh_python2), bug 717843 (python-imaging crasher), bug 752220 (aptdaemon import error), bug 759205 and bug 691841 (lazr.restful), bug 758037 (pyopenssl fix); python issue 11715 (python build on multiarch), pep 396; udd stakeholders meeting; app developer week class on
<barry> unittesting.  done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 748104 in django-ajax-selects (Ubuntu) "ftbfs with python2.7" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/748104
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 748089 in gmobilemedia (Ubuntu) "FTBFS in natty" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/748089
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 727649 in python2.7 (Ubuntu) "python2.7-dbg crashed with SIGSEGV in PyDict_GetItemString()" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727649
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 747236 in apache-openid (Ubuntu) "ftbfs with python2.7" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747236
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 719211 in apache-openid (Ubuntu) "import -c 'apache_openid' fails" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/719211
<robbiew> awesome...just what I like to see!
<robbiew> thnx barry
<robbiew> doko?
<mvo> bugfixes, bugfixes, bugfixes!
<doko> filed the remaining ftbfs reports (although lp times out showing them),  fixing build failures, fix gcc-4.5 ftbfs (somebody turned on hard errors for pointer conversations on the buildds *after* the test rebuild), prepare and start gcc-4.6 test rebuild
<doko> done
<robbiew> mvo?
<mvo> Apt-clone: review/merge lp:~ev/apt-clone/739489 (thanks!), rework protect_installed hanlding for restore-new-distro mode
<mvo> Apt: fix bug when parsing --print-foreign-architectures output, merge fixes from debina-sid, upload new version, run unattended-upgrades even if apt-get update returned a error
<mvo> Aptdaemon: prepare new upload, merge lp:~mvo/aptdaemon/relax-lintian-checks as distro patch, test, upload new version, merge fixes from juliank (thanks!)
<mvo> Command-not-found: start extraction on frei, updated to include ports architectures (#533031)
<mvo> Python-apt: perpare merge python-apt,review/merge changes by juliank (thanks!), test/merge multiarch patch
<mvo> Rnr-server: send RT about http -> https redirect for the anoymous API
<mvo> Softare-center: fix install-buy-something test, work with ISD, branch review/merges, look at crash (IOError) with multiprocessing and reviews, weblive work with stgraber
<mvo> Synaptic: add basic multiarch support
<mvo> Unattended-upgrades: add option to auto-fix interrupted dpkg runs, debug/fix crash with overly long control files (LP: #724994)
<mvo> Update-maanger: uploading new version, add mini proxy to properly test the proxy download feature, ensure on EOL->EOL upgrade the users see a EOL release accountment text that warns about upgrading to a EOL page, merge lp:~evfool/update-manager/fix727069, work on end-of-life code, integrate new webpage, write some more formal tests, work on more reliable ssh detection (#744995), write debsums_lite.py post-upgrade test (not that useful unfort
<mvo> unately as "locale" fails that test
<mvo> (done)
<robbiew> mvo: as usual...slacking
<robbiew> :P
<robbiew> thnx
 * mvo pats his gtimelog logs
<robbiew> cjwatson: ? ...kidding :P
<robbiew> jhunt?
<jhunt> More Upstart Cookbook updates. Cleared inbox. Rest of time spent
<jhunt> diagnosing another upstart chroot issue - taken a long time to determine
<jhunt> that problem appears to be related to pbuilder/chroot build env.
<jhunt> EOT
 * robbiew <3 the upstart cookbook!
<robbiew> ev?
<ev> Fixing bugs, and doing a lot of bug gardening.  Ubiquity fixes: 726740, 759401, 758236, 652852, 745607, 757208, 752372, 751145, 744938, 745138, m-a: 739400, apt-clone: pushed pyflakes into the test harness and fixed some crasher bugs.  Did my patch pilot time. Deep in bug 664533 at the moment.
<ev> bam.
<ev> done
<robbiew> nice!
<ev> thanks
 * mvo hugs ev
<robbiew> psurbhi: ?
<ev> there's a bit more than that actually
<ev> but those are the ones with bug numbers
 * ev hugs back
<ev> thanks for the merges
<psurbhi> *) fixes two small code bugs in mountall
<psurbhi> *) Added a private dbus server to mountall, tested - submitted for design/code review (spent some time here in debugging a mountall segfault in chroot, and the client app in initramfs - turned out to be a wrong job start clause :-/)
<psurbhi> *) adding a test script to upstart - testing the test script.
<psurbhi> (done)
<robbiew> psurbhi: thx
<robbiew> cjwatson?
<cjwatson> Done:
<cjwatson>  - Fixed livecd-rootfs regression caused by kernel perms change
<cjwatson>  - Minor tweak to improve iSCSI installation, though something's still broken
<cjwatson>  - Fixed rootskel kernel detection on VMware (745947)
<cjwatson>  - apt-setup re-disable partner (744982)
<cjwatson>  - Fixed rescue-mode on btrfs
<cjwatson>  - Various GRUB backports, esp. btrfs; add grub-mount to improve os-prober
<cjwatson>  - OEM locale handling (741304)
<cjwatson>  - gfxpayload blacklisting tweaks (757603, 758328)
<cjwatson>  - Ubiquity keyboard fixes (758584)
<cjwatson>  - and generally walking through beta-2 bugs
<cjwatson> To do:
<cjwatson>  - GRUB aufs failure (700910)
<cjwatson>  - console-setup deadkeys upgrade (742683)
<cjwatson>  - GRUB background colour handling (696915)
<cjwatson>  - Wubi backports and testing
<cjwatson>  - Make partman reuse existing BIOS Boot Partition (746313)
<cjwatson> (done)
<robbiew> cjwatson: thnx
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Natty Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Bugs
<robbiew> damn it
<ev> jeez, amateur hour
<robbiew> [Lightning - Part 2]
<robbiew> ev: YOU be quiet
<robbiew> stgraber: ?
<ev> hahaha
<stgraber> yeah !
<stgraber> A bit of work on AWSTrial, usual meetings (ARB, DMB), otherwise mostly ISO testing and bug fixing: bug 759080, bug 759115, bug 745532, bug 758732, bug 752393, bug 628906, bug 745011
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 759080 in Ubuntu "DHCP Server is not installed with Edubuntu LTSP Installer" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759080
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 759115 in ltsp (Ubuntu) "ltsp thin client kernel error - Could not find kernel image: vmlinuz" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759115
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745532 in pam (Ubuntu Natty) "fails to restart (not running) gdm on maverick->natty upgrade" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745532
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 758732 in python-apt (Ubuntu Natty) "enable_component() does not enable components for deb-src lines" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/758732
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 752393 in lsb (Ubuntu Natty) "lsb init scripts show line buffering problems on bootup" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/752393
<stgraber> (done)
 * mvo hugs stgraber
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Natty Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Bugs
<robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-04-08#Foundations
<robbiew> that's a bit stale
<robbiew> one sec
<robbiew> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33569
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33569
<barry> i have a fix for bug 758037 ready to go after beta release
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 758037 in pyopenssl (Ubuntu Natty) "pyopenssl breaks all ssl apps because of changes in python 2.7" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/758037
<robbiew> nice!
<robbiew> whew...ubiquity mentioned all ova' da place
<robbiew> though I question the severity on some of these :P
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Oneiric Planning
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Planning
<ev> yeah, they're not all very major
<ev> I've been milestoneing some bugs to just avoid losing track of them, with the hope of getting them in for natty
<robbiew> ack
<robbiew> no worries on my end
<robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/OneiricPlanning#Ideas
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/OneiricPlanning#Ideas
<robbiew> I need to add info from the mailing-list conversations and put this stuff into something a bit more easy to parse
<robbiew> will do that this week
<robbiew> [TOPIC]AOB/GoodNews?
<MootBot> New Topic: AOB/GoodNews?
<cjwatson> sorry, on bugs: if anyone is short of work for natty and doesn't have anything off the beta-2 or final bug lists to tackle, please look at the ftbfs list
<cjwatson> doko, do you have the current link there?
<doko> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110329-natty.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110329-natty.html
<mvo> I got a branch for the archive-crawler by a contributor that massively improves the extraction of the menu-data icons
 * mvo loves our community
<doko> the ld-no-add-needed are not build failures anymore, because ld --no-add-needed isn't the default anymore, saving us ~80 packages to fix
<doko> will be re-enabled for oneiric
<cjwatson> doko: thanks
<doko> hmm, I doubt the list is up to date. pinged wgrant
<robbiew> anything else?
<cjwatson> having one of my "what are we missing" moments
<robbiew> heh
<cjwatson> the bugs we're hearing about at the moment aren't that bad, AFAICT
<doko> well, the extra errors on the buildds ... I assume we'll have to catch these somehow
<doko> let's see how much of these show up with the gcc-4.6 rebuild
<cjwatson> should be possible to scan build logs for the same regex that launchpad-buildd uses
<Ampelbein> cjwatson, doko: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ftbfs+natty+-no-add-needed&field.tags_combinator=ALL should be a list of open ftbfs without ld-no-add-needed
<cjwatson> albeit slow as usual
<doko> Ampelbein: these queries time out for me unfortunately
<doko> Ampelbein: how many issues does this query show?
<Ampelbein> doko, 395
<doko> hmm. maybe the list *is* up to date
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:36.
<robbiew> that conversation isn't really meeting specific ;)
<robbiew> thanks all!
<ev> thanks
<stgraber> thanks
<barry> thanks robbiew!
<mvo> thanks
<doko> thanks
<jhunt> thx
<psurbhi> thanks.
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-14
<ogra_> froople
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110414#preview
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110414#preview
 * rsalveti waves
<NCommander> raise your hand if your here
<ogra_> o/
<rsalveti> o/
 * GrueMaster is properly caffeinated and present.
<NCommander> k
<NCommander> we have no standing action items from last week
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
 * ogra_ tickles janimo and DavidLevin 
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> davidm :=
<ogra_> :)
<janimo> hello
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<ogra_> NCommander, whats that one item you have still open there ?
<NCommander> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<ogra_> dokos is c losed
<rsalveti> haha, it's mine
<rsalveti> will close
<rsalveti> forgot about this one
<ogra_> rsajdok, i meant NCommanders Wi
<NCommander> ogra_: it is has me test the chinese edition of Ubuntu
<ogra_> grmbl
<ogra_> NCommander, ah, the description sounds weird
<ogra_> but we look great there imho :)
<NCommander> ogra_: yeah, I don't think I hsould have it, but it isn't in a spec I can edit + it refers to other people so I'm basically ingoring it
<ogra_> yeah, i think you can
<ogra_> though its bad that you cant even postpone or close it without them
<ogra_> well, but essentially we're done ... and 87 WIs closed for this cycle doesnt look to bad
<ogra_> move ?
<NCommander> ogra_: I keep forgetting to poke the spec owner before I poke the WI
<ogra_> oh, wait
<ogra_> should we dicuss the O spec ideas here ?
<ogra_> (did anyone apart from me add any yet ? i think there is a deadline soon)
 * NCommander hasn't 
<rsalveti> not yet, was busy with beta-2
<rsalveti> we should know about the deadline
<ogra_> NCommander, you said you wanted to work on the archive skew stuff, would probably make a good spec after talking to cjohnston
<ogra_> GRRR !!!!!!!!!
<ogra_> to cjwatson
<ogra_> rsalveti, there was mail somewhere tlaking about it
<NCommander> ogra_: tab complete is not your friend
 * ogra_ forgot where or when
<ogra_> NCommander, totally not today :(
<NCommander> ogra_: I've had ideas about it, just haven't taken pen to paper so to speak
<ogra_> NCommander, i know colin has a plan ready but no time to implement it
<ogra_> would need someone willing to touch soyuz indeed
<ogra_> and it would be a massive improvement, for all of us
<ogra_> mostly for GrueMaster thoughm since he would have images all the time ;)
<NCommander> ogra_: I'll poke cjwatson
<ogra_> cool
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to poke cjwatson on soyuz archive skew plan
<GrueMaster> That would be a nice change.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to poke cjwatson on soyuz archive skew plan
<ogra_> i looked through brainstorm too today to find any spec ideas
<ogra_> but thats mostly useless
<NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D status
<ogra_> upstream is working on remaining bugs and want to proviode me a package before 19th
<ogra_> not sure it will make it in or become SRU ... up to release team then
<NCommander> ogra_: we're at the point we should probably be prepared to do SRUs
<ogra_> well, i'll upload in any case as long as i can
<ogra_> if its rejected we can still make it an SRU
<NCommander> ogra_: of course
<ogra_> uploads are possible until 21st as i understood skaet's mail
<ogra_> wether they are accepted is another story ;)
<ogra_> move
<ogra_> (unless anyone has anything else for u-2d)
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<rsalveti> there will be one new update soon, with stable updates and more bug fixes
<rsalveti> the mem instability issue seems to be finally gone
<rsalveti> tested over 3 days doing kernel build with 1g and our current kernel and it was fine
<ogra_> with the current cmdline ?
<rsalveti> didn't check our current image, but I believe ogra_ changed the default boot args already
<ogra_> or just mem=1G
<ogra_> yeah, bootargs are set to 980M or so
<ogra_> or 960
<rsalveti> ogra_: I tested with 1G, so it should be fine with less
<janimo> rsalveti, is the omap4 sgx work going in as well? So no both 3d accel and wifi will work w/o a PPA?
<rsalveti> janimo: it's in the release ppa already
<GrueMaster> wifi works now.
<rsalveti> there's still one driver update, that I'm planning to finish until the end of this week
<GrueMaster> w/o ppa
<rsalveti> wifi should work by default
<rsalveti> with upstream driver
<ogra_> GrueMaster, not in headless :(
<GrueMaster> headless can be configured to use wifi manually.
<ogra_> we miss a bunch of wireless tools
<rsalveti> ogra_: we should have a cmd line mode for NM
<ogra_> we do
<ogra_> there is a tool
<ogra_> lets make sure we have it in the image in oneric
<rsalveti> also, another bug that had a fix (more a workaround) is the page allocation errors
<rsalveti> ogra_: sure
<ogra_> yeah
<GrueMaster> rsalveti: cool.
<rsalveti> that should help both omap3 and 4
<janimo> rsalveti, I mean no ppa at all but official archives
<ogra_> there is still bug 746133
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746133 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "Video loses sync on omap4" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746133
<rsalveti> janimo: if I get the "final" driver version ready soon, I'll try to push to the archive
<rsalveti> but that depends if IMG is not releasing another one
<ogra_> and bug 758961
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 758961 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "WARNING: at /build/buildd/linux-ti-omap4-2.6.38/drivers/tty/tty_mutex.c:31 tty_lock 0x30/0x4c()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/758961
<janimo> ogra_, I could not get wifi working either with nmcli only
<rsalveti> the second one (warning) should be gone with the new pull request
<ogra_> janimo, i think we are missing wireless-tools and wpa-supplicant
<rsalveti> janimo: it's working, but not stable atm
<ogra_> janimo, something to research for O
<rsalveti> the new pull request should also bring some fixes for it
<ogra_> (i dont even think iwconfig was installed when i tested)
<rsalveti> seems the "only" bug now is this related with the video losing sync
<ogra_> GrueMaster, do you still plan to look into bug 651302 ? possibly for an SRU ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 651302 in Ubuntu Natty "No sound in omap (beagle, beagleXM)." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/651302
<rsalveti> yeah, that would be good to have fixed
<GrueMaster> Yes, that was next on my list (after release testing).
<janimo> ogra_, I installed those by hand, but I did not research the actual command line incantation to make them all work together
<ogra_> (though thats less kernel and more UCM stuff)
<rsalveti> yeah
<ogra_> janimo, yeah, as i said, O material
<rsalveti> any other kernel related question or comment?
<ogra_> we should release note it though
<GrueMaster> I wonder if oem-config will start wifi on the headless images?  It sees the nic.
<rsalveti> not related with kernel, but u-boot is broken with beagle <= B5
 * ogra_ thinks headless got way further than expected 
<ogra_> GrueMaster, it would if all tools would be there
<rsalveti> bug 760350
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 760350 in u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu Natty) "2011.03 doesn't boot anymore on Beagle B5" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760350
<GrueMaster> ah
<ogra_> move ?
<GrueMaster> rsalveti: On that, I think you are the only one with that older board, which means you are the sole QA guy for it.
<ogra_> haha
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: that's fine
<rsalveti> I'm working with jcrigby to have that fixed
<rsalveti> but should be also in the release notes
<rsalveti> for beta-2, if it's still possible
<rsalveti> move?
<ogra_> hmm, i wasnt even pinged by skaet for release note editing this time
 * ogra_ will try to find out about it
<rsalveti> NCommander: and please, add ppisati at the kernel topic
<ogra_> ++
<GrueMaster> They were having network issues late yesterday.  I think she's still climbing out from that.
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<janimo> fixed a few FTBFS in main
<janimo> gnome-games fix pending (upload in moderation queue)
<ogra_> doko pointed to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20110419-arm/+builds?build_text=&build_state=failed today
<janimo> given up on universe for natty = the remaining ones are all nasty or intrusive
<ogra_> thats gcc 4.6 rebuilds for oneric prep
<janimo> or impossible due to slow swapping builders
<ogra_> we should monitor it to beable to fix ftbfs early
<janimo> 3 FTBFS and only at the letter A. A good start
<ogra_> heh, yeah
<ogra_> move ?
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> beta2 is on cdimage
<ogra_> what else should i say :)
<GrueMaster> Community images need some work (i.e. kubuntu-mobile).
<ogra_> what kind of work ?
<rsalveti> ogra_: just tested the ti release ppa and it worked fine :-)
<ogra_> apart from app bugs
<rsalveti> removed the icon and etc
<ogra_> rsalveti, awesome !
<GrueMaster> Aside from package issues they are working on, the images are currently just for the rootfs.
<rsalveti> for now it's basically the SGX driver
<ogra_> next release we'll remove the hacks
<rsalveti> spec for that?
<ogra_> for fixing hacks ?
<ogra_> nah
<rsalveti> again heheh
<ogra_> i'll just do it
<ogra_> GrueMaster, hmm, that sounds like missing bits in livecd-rootfs
<ogra_> i fear nothing we can fix pre-natty
<ogra_> i added a spec idea for community images btw
<ogra_> anyway, move unless there are more questions
<GrueMaster> Well, they designed it that way for omap3 due to kernel miscommunication issues and they are going for Nokia n900 support.  But their method is more work than if they had a complete image and overlayed with their bits.
<GrueMaster> The way their images work now, I have to first flash the kubuntu-desktop image to SD then flash the kubuntu-mobile image to SD Partition 2.
<ogra_> GrueMaster, sounds like a spec idea "use a generic armel image and assemble finals through adding overlays" :)
<GrueMaster> Very doable.
<janimo> ogra_, isn't that the linaro hwpack approach?
<ogra_> well, add it to the ideas page
<ogra_> janimo, yes, but to implement that in the ubuntu buildsys it has to be very different
<ogra_> and the hwpacks are not images
<rsalveti> yeah, that would be a good spec to implement
<GrueMaster> We could easily support blaze with that method.
<rsalveti> and if we could use linaro's hwpack it would be even better
<rsalveti> but something to discuss during uds
<ogra_> well, we would still have to roll images for each board
<ogra_> rsalveti, we cant, unless we switch ubuntu to live-helper
<ogra_> and unless we start to use linaro kernels
<ogra_> which wont happen
<ogra_> but yeah, put it up for uds
<rsalveti> :-)
<ogra_> spec ideas needs some content :)
<GrueMaster> We continue to roll images for specific subarch (i.e. omap omap4).  HW pack would overlay that image.
<ogra_> NCommander, hey, how about a softbootloader
 * ogra_ hides
 * rsalveti also hides
<NCommander> ogra_: I'm going to beat you at UDS
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> move ?
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> I added the idea to the wiki.
<GrueMaster> Oh, that's me.
<GrueMaster> Release testing was much smother this week than it was two weeks ago.  Only major glitch was oem-config-debconf on headless.
<davidm> Hello
<GrueMaster> Which was quickly fixed.
<ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/594061/ is a list of bugs i'm monitoring for release (and what i will put into release team report)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/594061/ is a list of bugs i'm monitoring for release (and what i will put into release team report)
<ogra_> most were mentioned above already
<ogra_> shout if i'm missing any
<davidm> sorry guys had to eat breakfast
<rsalveti> ogra_: I believe that list should cover almost everything
<ogra_> good
<GrueMaster> Why is the edid detection SRU only?  Kernel freeze is next week.
<ogra_> kernel team denied inclusion already
<ogra_> shout at tgardner :P
<davidm> because OMAP 3 is in the main line brance
<ogra_> thats also omap4
<davidm> branch that is, would have to retest x86
<rsalveti> he's fine for omap 4
<ogra_> ah, k
<davidm> Yes we are clear to do what we want in OMAP 4 but not OMAP 3
<rsalveti> too close for omap 3, that's why will send it upstream to get more feedback
<rsalveti> with more feedback the sru could be feasible
<davidm> So SRU for OMAP 3
<ogra_> well, omap4 still has rebase issues
<skaet> ogra_, did ping on irc,  but seems to have not gotten through.  :(   Draft of release notes are in usual place.   Can you cross check that the key bugs found in your pastebin are mentioned,  and the ones there are appropriate?
<ogra_> seems the idea to base off linaro trees wasnt that clever :P
<davidm> yes I hope TI sorts rebase issues soonish
<ogra_> skaet, will do, thanks
<rsalveti> ogra_: problem is the way linaro is handling the tree
<davidm> Yes we may release late I suspect
<ogra_> yes
<rsalveti> it's not doing rebases, but merges
<ogra_> i know
<ogra_> its sad since we are ready for release
<davidm> Very frustrating for sure
<ogra_> having to delay because of a maintenance issue is really odd
<ogra_> but lets see, apw made some suggestions that looked good
<ogra_> so it might make the release
<davidm> I really hope so
<ogra_> sound is sadly in a very bad state still
<davidm> I really am upset about sound, that should have been sorted a while ago
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> and in a better way than sending half breeded patches
<NCommander> ogra_: breeded?
<ogra_> it might still get solved, its my main focus and diwic helps where he can
<ogra_> but the code coming from TI is very immature yet
<ogra_> NCommander, yeah, from thepatch farm :P
<ogra_> move ?
<NCommander> ogra_: I think someone needs to explain the turth about whre patches come from :-P
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ogra_> NCommander, you mean the patch-birds and -bees ?
<davidm> Ha
<davidm> By the by folks, it's that time again...... -->Blueprints<-- We need to start hitting that hard please
<ogra_> people: add more stuff to the spec ideas wikipage
<ogra_> snap :P
<davidm> :-)
<NCommander> ogra_: I think we need a patch for your brain.
<ogra_> well, a vacation might do already ;)
<davidm> We will be sharing our BP on ARM, MISC and Hardware tracks I think
<NCommander> BP?
<ogra_> and blowing some compressed air from ear to ear
<ogra_> NCommander, blueprints
<NCommander> oh
<ogra_> davidm, do you have a deadline ?
<davidm> Well I'm getting asked when we will have them, my response is as soon as we can, release is prio
<janimo> ogra_, link to ideas page again please?
<GrueMaster> janimo: It is in the #arm topic
<janimo> GrueMaster, thanks
<davidm> So really the worst case would be the week before UDS but really needs sooner if at all possible
<GrueMaster> Sooner for scheduling.
<ogra_> before release we should have the rough list if possible
<davidm> Yes that would be good
<ogra_> and even if you thinnk your idea is silly, just add it
<ogra_> we can remove stuff later
<ogra_> (and laugh about you) :P
<davidm> We should be able I hope to take more rough edges off ARM this time
 * ogra_ would like to thank the team for such a nice cooperative beta2 work ... that was a really nice milestone and a lot of fun to work on this time
<ogra_> it really felt like we're working as a team :)
<GrueMaster> Yes, it was.
 * davidm thinks this a great
<davidm> I have to run, session starting and I don't want to miss it.
<ogra_> ciao then
<davidm> ciao
<NCommander> I think we're done, no?
 * ogra_ waits for NCommander to fill the remaining 5min with singing and dancing for our amusement
<NCommander> anything else?
<GrueMaster> ogra_: Please, no!
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> well, then lets just close ;)
<NCommander> ogra_: I'm going to beat you at UDS, and then I'm going to put it on YouTube under CC-SA
<NCommander> so the rest of the world can enjoy it :-P
<ogra_> NCommander, try it :D
<NCommander> anyway
<NCommander> Closing in 3
<NCommander> 2
<NCommander> 1
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:57.
<janimo> NCommander, people will appreciate you allow commercial use for said video
<Thermi> gn8
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-15
<pitti> skaet: will we even have a release meeting today?
<kenvandine> pitti!
<pitti> hey kenvandine
<skaet> pitti, yup,  planning on it
<kenvandine> you made it :)
<kenvandine> pitti, still on the train?
<pitti> I'll need to change trains in about 30 mins, so I might miss our desktop part
<pitti> kenvandine: yes, all day; 6 hours there, now 6 hours back
<kenvandine> pitti, whew... long day :/
<pitti> kenvandine: but the desktop report should be reasonably current
<skaet> pitti,  ouch.
<Daviey> o/
<kenvandine> pitti, thx for updating it
<pitti> but worth it -- we have a really nice flat now!
<kenvandine> pitti, congrats :)
<skaet> great!
<skaet> hmm about time,  so lets start..
<davmor2> pitti: yeah but a 12 hour commute to work ;)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> [Topic] Natty overview - skaet_
<skaet> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty overview - skaet_
<skaet> .
<skaet> Agenda is at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-04-15
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-04-15
<skaet> .
<skaet> Milestoned bugs for 11.04 release can be found:
<skaet>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33569
<skaet> milestoned bugs from 11.04 beta 2 are in the process of being assessed
<skaet> and either transfered to 11.04,  or deferred to Oneiric.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Its unlikely all will get fixed.   Help is requested of leads to please scrub through the list, and move all those not able to fix to  either:  natty-updates,  or open a separate task against oneiric, and mark the ones against natty as won't fix, if they're not candidates for updates.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs targetted for this release can be found:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+bugs
<skaet> .
<skaet> Upcoming Natty Significant Dates:
<skaet> - LanguagePackTranslationDeadline 4/20 (1200 UTC)
<skaet> - Last bug fix 4/21 (0900 UTC)- hard freeze
<skaet> - Release Image Builds 4/21
<skaet> - Unseeded Universe/Multiverse Final Freeze - 4/26 (1200 UTC)
<skaet> - "Release!! - 11.04 Release Date: April 28, 2011
<skaet> .
<skaet> EOL's approaching:
<skaet> - Karmic (9.10) - EOL on 4/30
<skaet> - Hardy Desktop (8.04) - EOL on 5/12
<skaet> - Dapper Drake (6.06 ) - EOL on 6/1
<skaet> and wanted to say a big thank you to everyone for helping to get beta 2 out the door yesterday!
<skaet> any questions about the upcoming dates?
<skaet> ..
 * jdstrand is very pleased with those dates :)
<jdstrand> the EOLs in particular :P
<skaet> :)
 * skaet figured it was the EOLs.
<skaet> :)
 * jdstrand nods
<skaet> ok,  if nothing else,  lets move on to round tables.
<skaet> [Topic] QA team update -  jibel
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> hi all o/
<skaet> :)
<jibel> Natty Work Items
<jibel> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-uec-qa
<jibel> We are now able to run EUC fine on Beta 2. hggdh is investigating the failures.
<jibel> QA Dashboard
<jibel> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<jibel> linux, unity, software-center are in both last day and last 7 days top 5
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<jibel> Automatic Upgrade Testing mostly green (white actually)
<jibel> http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<jibel> Beta 2 Testing results:
<jibel> 540 results reported (+20.3% increase compared to Beta 1)
<jibel> * Image Coverage : 100.00% (78/78)
<jibel> * Mandatory Test Cases : 95.74% (225/235)
<jibel> * Run Once Test Cases : 95.45% (42/44)
<jibel> * Overall : 95.70% (267/279)
<jibel> 88 (+8.64%) bugs have been reported affecting a total of 66 test cases.
<jibel> Amongst which 7 with a critical importance (7 closed) and 55 with high importance (26 closed)
<jibel> 26 Tests failed (-35 compared to Beta 1).
<jibel> This makes a failure rate of 9.74% (26/267) (-12.52% compared to Beta 1)
<jibel> This can be interpreted as more bugs found, in line with the increased participation, but less release critical bugs (less test failures)
<jibel> ..
<skaet> Thanks jibel!
<skaet> good to see the statistics bearing out the impressions it felt much more solid than beta 1
<skaet> what is the autotesting of the desktop looking like?
<skaet> (true failures, as opposed to test failures)
<skaet> s/test/test infrastructure/
<mvo> yeah, the autoupgradetester is really happy
<mvo> plus it got more diskspace and so more tests
<skaet> :)
<jibel> patrickmw has been reviewing the failures and filed bugs against mago, now we need to fix the tests.
<jibel> no new failures on the applications
<skaet> thanks,  positive trend continues there too then.   cool.  :)
<skaet> anyone else have questions for jibel?
<dbarth> o/
<skaet> dbarth,  go ahead
<dbarth> bootcharts results or anything indicating that there is a performance problem at startup with unity?
<dbarth> do you have ...
<dbarth> (sorry, can' type today)
<jibel> dbarth, bootchart are measuring the boot time, from the feedback on the forums, blogs, ... the complaint is about the time for the desktop to come up after login
<jibel> I'll see with bdmurray if we have something
<dbarth> right, ok, so we're tracking that feedback as well
<dbarth> ok thanks
<seb128> jibel: the charts do grub to desktop loaded
 * skaet looks around for anyone else?
<jibel> oh ok, I'll check what we have and we'll come back to you
<skaet> Thanks again jibel,  and thanks to all the folks who helped with the testing over the last week!  excellent coverage,  :)
<skaet> [Topic] Hardware Certification team update - victorp
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - victorp
<victorp> o/
<skaet> :)
<victorp> This week we continued testing, using the complete certification test
<victorp> suite, the systems that we have scheduled to certify for 11.04.
<victorp> The results of the testing can be found at:
<victorp> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/natty-testing/natty_beta1.html
<victorp> There are some systems that appear in the report as "Not Tested", were
<victorp> actually tested, but are failing to report back to the certification
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/natty-testing/natty_beta1.html
<victorp> website. This has been identified as a bug in our infrastructure and we
<victorp> have given it the highest priority to have it fixed prior to
<victorp> certification testing for 11.04.
<victorp> The bugs found during this testing have been filed against the
<victorp> corresponding package with the tag of blocks-hwcert:
<victorp> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=blocks-hwcert
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=blocks-hwcert
<victorp> We are escalating the bugs to the corresponding teams to try to have
<victorp> them fixed for Natty before release, on in an early SRU.
<skaet> ..?
 * skaet wondering if victorp is done or having a communication glitch...
<victorp> not here still
<victorp> :)
<victorp> just to let you know that we are done with beta1
<victorp> testing and we are now retesting fixes and so on
<victorp> ..
<skaet> thanks victorp!
<skaet> looks like of the high blocks-hwcert all but one unity are linux.
<skaet> linux kernel has frozen right now
<skaet> do you consider any of the blocks-hwcert to be kitten killers?
<ogasawara> skaet: JFo and I have been reviewing them this morning, and getting nomination/milestone reset accordingly
<skaet> ogasawara, excellent.  :)
<ogasawara> skaet: I didn't see any kittne killers from my point of view
<victorp> they are all sruable
<skaet> victorp, ogasawara,   good to hear.   thanks!
<skaet> any other questions for victorp?
<skaet> [Topic] Security team update - jdstrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> hi!
<skaet> :)
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> As stated in previous meetings, even though we are now above the trend line now, all work items tied to the release process are completed. We are fixing natty bugs here and there as we are made aware of them.
<jdstrand> As usual, the team has been focusing primarily on stable release updates as well as security updates in the development release.
<jdstrand> I noticed bug #663294 was still on our list for the agenda, but it's fixed now (so I removed it just now). (thanks doko)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663294 in firefox (Ubuntu Natty) "Firefox built with gcc-4.5 is a non-starter on i386 with -pie" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663294
<jdstrand> We will likely do another apparmor upload to address a few profiling bugs that came in. They are not high priority but have a very low chance of regression and it would be nice to have them in natty before release.
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet> thanks jdstrand!
<jdstrand> sure! :)
<skaet> (and thanks for catching that fixed bug in the agenda)
<skaet> any security updates on the horizon for the next week that might interact with natty release?
<jdstrand> no. there may be a 0-day update for firefox, but we won't try to shove that into natty (upstream currently scheduled it for week of release)
<jdstrand> shove into natty before release that is
<jdstrand> natty-security, you bet! :)
<skaet> thanks!
<cjwatson> 663294> I didn't get the sense that the bug list on the agenda had been updated at all this week
<jdstrand> cjwatson: I think it was fixed the week prior
<cjwatson> I did fairly extensive work on ours, but probably didn't catch most new bugs
<jdstrand> a binutils update fixed it
<jdstrand> well, the underlyign issue, and then firefox re-enabled -pie
<jdstrand> cjwatson: oh, I totally misread your comment
<skaet> cjwatson,  yeah am still needing to filter in the new ones,  am waiting for the bug scrub that's happening today,  and will be taking a pass as soon as I hear they're done at adding.
<jdstrand> that was the only bug I personally noticed
<skaet> I'll make a special version available with the date, after the new ones have gotten added properly.
<cjwatson> thanks
<skaet> any other questions for jdstrand?
<skaet> [Topic] Kernel team update - ogasawara  (or apw?)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - ogasawara  (or apw?)
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for the release milestone is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> We have very few specific work items in the ubuntu-11.04-beta-2 milestone, mostly non-release related.  These have now all been dispositioned either postponed or pushed to the release, no remaining task is release criticial.  The natty kernel is now at v2.6.38-8.42, this represents v2.6.38.2 mainline stable release, brining a number of bug fixes since the v2.6.38 final.  We already have a few bug fixes pending and v2.6.3
<ogasawara> 8.3 has now released and so we are planning on doing one more upload likely monday to pull these into the release.
<ogasawara> skaet: so heads up on a pending kernel upload
<ogasawara> Of the bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as below:
<skaet> ogasawara, thanks for the head's up.
<ogasawara> #508516 Toshiba nb305 suspend issues are BIOS related, a work around is being release noted;
<ogasawara> #539467 SATA alpm is now disabled in userspace, fix for Nvidia mcp65 controllers making its way upstream, will keep alpm disabled for natty;
<ogasawara> #542660 still present, needs deeper debug, moved out to natty-updates;
<ogasawara> #608312 possible fix exists, need to understand why this has not been applied;
<ogasawara> #625364 work around may be encodable via pm-utils, needs investigation;
<ogasawara> #634487 Kernel dev able to reproduce, currently under further investigation.
<ogasawara> #674984 there is a possible fix for this in Natty, waiting on testing results;
<ogasawara> #686388 it seems that these may now be resolved, awaiting testing;
<ogasawara> #710738 possible work around via disabling hwcrypt, awaiting testing;
<ogasawara> #712075 problem remains with the latest kernels, needs investigation;
<ogasawara> #719620 suspected BIOS issue, awaiting testing with BIOS update;
<ogasawara> #720949 is now Fix Released;
<ogasawara> #746751 is currently non-reproducible;
<ogasawara> #747090 has a pending fix, Fix Committed;
<ogasawara> #750649 is waiting on testing by the reporter;
<ogasawara> #753071 has a huge patchset, but likely will have to wait till after release;
<ogasawara> #731878 is now Fix Released.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> thanks ogasawara!
<skaet> very much appreciate seeing the details on those bugs.
<skaet> are we waiting for community testing for those "awaiting testing" ones or is there someone specifically assigned to each?
<ogasawara> skaet: waiting for testing/feedback from the bug reporter
<skaet> ok,  thanks.
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Foundations team update - cjwatson
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> Beta 2 went pretty well for us, on the whole, and several bugs have been fixed since those images were built.
<cjwatson> In general, I get the sense that we're starting to get into bugs that only affect comparatively rare kinds of systems (e.g. powerpc, Intel Macs, etc.) which is a good sign.
<cjwatson> Notes on individual bugs:
<cjwatson>  * Bug 566818: Surbhi is working on this and has a branch ready for review.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566818 in plymouth (Ubuntu Natty) "Cryptsetup passphrase prompt during boot: every character typed repeats the prompt" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566818
<cjwatson>  * Bug 683904: Michael stalled on this in his last round of investigation.  Colin will have a look after returning from holiday next week.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 683904 in grub2 (Ubuntu Natty) "natty: memtest86+ fails to run, reboots immediately" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683904
<cjwatson>  * Bug 723911: Explicitly deferred to natty-updates to minimise risk.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 723911 in software-center (Ubuntu Natty) "deauthorize does not remove sources.list" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723911
<cjwatson>  * Bug 728088: Asked the server team (via Dave) to look at this, since Colin can't reproduce it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728088 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Natty) "iscsi root with or without auth fails to boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728088
<cjwatson>  * Bug 728531: Some bumps in the road during testing, but James is on this and it should be fixed for release.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728531 in upstart (Ubuntu Natty) "chroot support is not reliable" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728531
<cjwatson>  * Bug 740903: May have been fixed by bug 725408; Evan will retest.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 740903 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "return_to_partitioning fails when the replace option fails" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740903
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 725408 in partman-auto (Ubuntu) "installer hangs detecting existing partitions" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/725408
<cjwatson>  * Bug 746313, bug 757201: Reasonably well-understood and should account for most of the Mac problems found in ISO testing.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746313 in partman-partitioning (Ubuntu Natty) "partman should reuse existing BIOS Boot Partition" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746313
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 757201 in parted (Ubuntu Natty) "Overlapping partitions created on Apple GPT" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/757201
<cjwatson>  * Bug 756920: StÃ©phane is working on this, though testing has revealed some problems.  Should be sorted out by next week.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 756920 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "Natty manual-partitioner is dangerously forgetful" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/756920
<cjwatson>  * Bug 758614: No idea what's going on here.  Display manager or X problem?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 758614 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "Kubuntu Wubi - Black screen during stage 2" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/758614
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> thanks cjwatson!
 * skaet digesting details
<skaet> anyone else have questions?
<cjwatson> (I'm on holiday Mon and Tue, FWIW.)
<skaet> thanks cjwatson.   and thank you to the foundations team for all those bug fixes last week!   lovely seeing those issues go down, and I agree it seems to be the corner cases starting to emerge,  which is a good sign.  :)
<skaet> [Topic] Server team update - Daviey (or zul)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - Daviey (or zul)
<Daviey> Hello o/
<skaet> :)
<Daviey> Beta 2 initial feedback seems to be good.
<Daviey> i386 - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/5443
<Daviey> amd64 - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/5442
<Daviey> Bugs we are currently working towards or monitoring for release:
<Daviey> 661453 	dovecot.conf always shows as having been locally modified on update
<Daviey>                 - Debian has resolved this in a non-natty friendly way, investigating alternatives.
<Daviey> 745930 	cloud-init timeout waiting for metadata service on EC2 cloud-init
<Daviey>                 - Not sure if this is infrastructure issue, or and issue with cloud-init, investigating
<Daviey> 760288 	JeOS is oversized
<Daviey>                 - Inconsistent reports of install size, someone did suggest theirs was undersize, requires more investigation
<Daviey> 759943  mod_wsgi.so-3.2 gives errors
<Daviey>                 - Currently being investigated.
<Daviey> 747090 wrong return address sometimes pushed for INT in kvm (not qemu)
<Daviey>                 - Looks like we have a resolution, unsure of latest status (kernel space)
<Daviey> 728088 	iscsi root with or without auth fails to boot
<Daviey>                 - needs further reproduction
<Daviey> 566818 	Cryptsetup passphrase prompt during boot: every character typed repeats the prompt
<Daviey>                 - csurbhi seems close to a fix. (commented 3hrs ago)
<Daviey> 580319 	dhcp3-server launches before upstart brings all interface, thus failing to start
<Daviey>                  - need confirmation that it affects isc-dhcp (v4), waiting on this.
<Daviey> 759545 	user prompted to update unmodified grub configuration during Ubuntu server upgrade
<Daviey>                 - untouched.
<Daviey> Wider testing of server is still very much welcomed to help uncover more bugs before release.  Tha
<Daviey> Thanks all.
<Daviey> ..
<skaet> Thanks Daviey!
<skaet> appreciate the details,  and I'll cross check them against the latest lists, as the scrubs emerge
<Daviey> skaet, groovy
<skaet> any questions for Daviey?
<Daviey> skaet, please ping me if there are some not answered.
<skaet> Daviey,  will do.  :)
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop team update - kenvandine
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team update - kenvandine
 * skaet looks around for kenvandine ?
<kenvandine> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
 * kenvandine waves :)
<skaet> :)
<kenvandine> [LINK]http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<kenvandine> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team.html
<kenvandine> not much to report, just bug fixing
<kenvandine> current in progress RC bugs:
<kenvandine> 727372 [FF 4 requires both .desktop and gconf entries for url handlers]: Sent patch upstream, needs upstream review; now decided to go ahead with an Ubuntu patch
<kenvandine> 723911 [deauthorize does not remove sources.list]: no progress this week
<kenvandine> 686388 [[i965gm] GPU lockup - Invalid GTT entry during Display B Fetch]: test kernel available, needs testing
<kenvandine> 740387 [graphical corruption with multiple drivers and classic desktop]: Should be fixed, but awaiting confirmation from reporters
<kenvandine> and bugs we are looking at:
<kenvandine> 649809 [the session settings manager can try starting before the login screen one exits]: Thought to be fixed, but some people still get it; remaining problem is hard to reproduce, still debugging
<kenvandine> 737891 [[Arrandale] gnome-display-properties unable to correctly enable monitors connected to VGA]: Debugging going on
<kenvandine> 741385 [icons in notification area are broken]: Debugging going on
<kenvandine> that is all i have, questions?
<skaet> thanks kenvandine!
<kenvandine> thanks skaet
 * skaet looks around for questions before moving on....
<pitti> bah, back just in time to miss it, thanks kenvandine
<skaet> :)
<kenvandine> hehe :)
<kenvandine> pitti, great timing :)
<skaet> [Topic] Ubuntu One Team - Chipaca
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team - Chipaca
 * skaet looks around for Chipaca ??
<skaet> hmm,  guess we'll come back to him later.
<skaet> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
<Riddell> hi
<skaet> :)
<Riddell>  * Beta 2 is out, no killer bugs
<Riddell>  * ARM images work, some issues but good enough
<Riddell>  * Kubuntu mobile good enough for its tech preview status
<Riddell>  * 8 bugs milestoned for final http://goo.gl/BKRCm
<Riddell>    * of which bug 758614 is most worrying
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 758614 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "Kubuntu Wubi - Black screen during stage 2" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/758614
<Riddell>    * and bug 745607 a bit annoying too
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745607 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity still installed after oem-config on kubuntu netbook" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745607
<Riddell>    * Kubuntu community very concerned by bug 696915, bless them
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 696915 in plymouth (Ubuntu Natty) "make it possible to configure grub background color in a usable way" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/696915
<Riddell>  * still no update of kubuntu-docs, will have to update the 10.10 docs if they doesn't arrive over the weekend
<Riddell> ..
<skaet> Thanks Riddell!   good summary.
<skaet> will keep an eye on those bugs you flagged.
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<dbarth> hi
<dbarth> classic report link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/NattyReleaseStatus
<dbarth> what's new this week?
<dbarth> the final installment of unity, 3.8.8 with only 28 bugs fixed
<dbarth> but that shows we're getting more stable now!
<skaet> :)
<dbarth> also a new compiz upload fixing 4-5 high prio bugs and crashers, and more of those stacking issues nailed down (with apps using fullscreen for ex) and a very annoying focus issue with thunderbird
<dbarth> links in the report
<dbarth> i also reviewed all of the bugs in the release meeting agenda and emailed you a detailled update
<dbarth> we still have a couple of them on the radar for potential fixes on monday: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-foundations/+milestone/unity-3.8.10
<dbarth> and 1 alreadyu fixed in compiz that fixes an amarok bug
<dbarth> last
<dbarth> we have a plan to solve the CJK problem, and action items to get something in a PPA now
<dbarth> ..
<skaet> thanks dbarth!   I'll go check my inbox after this meeting.
<cjwatson> Riddell: (sorry, I'm late) 696915 is fixed - you can either leave it at black (which is what you should get now), or add a slave alternative to plymouth-theme-kubuntu-logo, documented in the bug
<cjwatson> well, now -> whenever those packages are accepted
 * skaet suspects she'll be talking with dbarth after the QA folks finish the bug triage and the beta2 results start coming in....
<skaet> dbarth,  please thank the team for all the bug fixes,   its starting to feel a lot more solid based on my impressions and what I've been hearing from others.
<ScottK> cjwatson: Saw that.  Thanks.
<dbarth> sure, i will pass on the message; much appreaciated
<skaet> anyone have questions for dbarth?
<skaet> [Topic] ARM team update - ogra
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - ogra
<ogra_> Status is at:
<ogra_> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogra_> --
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogra_>  * unity-2d upstream works on a final bugfix release to be uploaded on monday
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> Image status:
<ogra_>  * Netbook images are fine
<ogra_>  * New headless/serial image works fine
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> Specs:
<ogra_> Entire status: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> Bugs:
<ogra_>  * bug 746023
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746023 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu Natty) "No sound on omap4" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746023
<ogra_>  * bug 746133
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746133 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "Video loses sync on omap4" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746133
<ogra_>  * bug 760035
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 760035 in python-apt (Ubuntu Natty) "Ubuntu.info template doesn't allow deb-src lines using archive.ubuntu.com on ports architectures" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760035
<ogra_>  * bug 747229
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 747229 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "weird color change during oem-config debconf package removal step in serial installs" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747229
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogra_ !
<ogra_> :)
<skaet> was seeing some other signs of sound issues in some of the initial bugs from beta 2, but hopefully just duplicates of 746023.
<ogra_> for omap 4 ?
<ogra_> there is no sound support at all atm
<ogra_> i would be surprised to see other bugs here
<skaet> the refs weren't specific (ie omap),  so need so to check it was.    likely was though.
<ogra_> k
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] MOTU team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - ScottK
<ScottK> Hello
<ScottK> I've been pushing Universe uploads through the queue as fast as people upload them.
<ScottK> There's still plenty of FTBFS/NBS work to do before release.
<ScottK> As always we'll run up to the wire.
<ScottK> I think that's it.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> Thanks ScottK!
<skaet> who's going to be approver for those last multiverse/universe uploads?
<ScottK> The release team as a whole usually handles it.
<ScottK> I don't expect it to be different this time.
<skaet> We probably need to update the beta process docs then...
<skaet> Work with universe/multiverse community to identify delegates to approve Feature Freeze Exceptions, in addition to ubuntu-release until the date of Final Freeze for universe
<ScottK> We didn't do delegations this cycle.
<ScottK> That is a bit different, but I think it's worked fine.
<ScottK> So that probably just needs a "if any" in there somewhere.
<ScottK> We generally do that around feature freeze.
<ScottK> Over the last couple of years I think there's been a general decline in the number of rabid fanboy requests we get for last minute 'essential' updates of $MYPETPACKAGE.
<ScottK> .. (again)
<skaet> ok,  lets review at UDS then,  and update to "if any" is appropriate to add.    I'll go back and review Feature Freeze docs as well then too.
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Linaro update - JamieBennett
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - JamieBennett
<JamieBennett> \o
<JamieBennett> Nothing much to report from Linaro this week, there are no real FFe's planned and what we will be working on will be Linaro only
<JamieBennett> I will let you know if there is anything potentially intersecting
<JamieBennett> ..
<skaet> Thanks JamieBennett!
<skaet> at this point,  I'm going to assume no news is good news ;)
<skaet> any questions for JamieBennett ?
<skaet> is Chipaca around now?
<skaet> [Topic] any other kudos/comments/questions?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other kudos/comments/questions?
 * skaet looks around...
<skaet> Just wanted to say thank you again to the teams for the hard work on getting beta 2 out the door.    Very cool to see all the new features, and the crashers disappearing.  :)
<skaet> hmm... no one else has comments,  so guess its time to end.
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:10.
<skaet> Thanks to jibel, victorp, jdstrand, ogasawara, cjwatson, Daviey, kenvandine,  Riddell, dbarth, ogra, ScottK, JamieBennett
<jibel> Thanks skaet
<Chipaca> darn! missed the meeting :(
<Chipaca> skaet: http://paste.ubuntu.com/594503/
<mhall119> kirkland: you going to be around for the lightning talks in 10 minutes?
<kirkland> mhall119: yessir!
<mhall119> awesome, thanks
<kirkland> mhall119: #ubuntu-classroom?
<mhall119> and -classroom-chat
<mhall119> and -classroom-backstage if you need assistance
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-16
<AndrewMC> #startmeeting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuYouth/Meetings
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is AndrewMC.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<AndrewMC> Hi all and welcome to the Ubuntu Youth team meeting, can all who are here please say "here"
<genupulas> here
<AndrewMC> anyone else, if not ill just postpone this
<skfin> here
<skfin> +1 for postpone
<Mkaysi> here
<skfin> I will not be here, at least very active
<AndrewMC> okay, further discussion will be held in #ubuntu-youth, we can decide on when we want to move this to
<AndrewMC> is that okay with everyone?
<skfin> yes
<AndrewMC> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:02.
<genupulas> hmm cool
<MrChrisDruif> Youth Team meeting?
<genupulas> its over
<MrChrisDruif> Ow...then the meeting time on the Fridge isn't right :P
<genupulas> MrChrisDruif:  please come to #ubuntu-youth
<genupulas> MrChrisDruif:  its fine but ....?
<MrChrisDruif> Well, what I imported said it would start now
<ElWuilMeR> here
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-17
<Thermi> gn8
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-09
<ejat> elo ..
<micahg> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<tumbleweed> o/
<bdrung> o/
 * tumbleweed puts the kettle on
<bdrung> tumbleweed: hot water for what?
<tumbleweed> coffee time
 * bdrung just finished lunch. :)
<tumbleweed> I see we probable apologies for Laney, stgraber, and barry
<bdrung> all depends on cody-somerville
<bdrung> micahg, tumbleweed: what should we do? wait for cody-somerville, defer the meeting, or begin the meeting and collecting votes per mail?
<tumbleweed> wallyweek doesn't appear to be here either
<micahg> right, so deferal seems prudent as we have no applicants present
<micahg> *scheduled :)
<tumbleweed> agreed
<tumbleweed> diwic's application is also sufficiently aged, but I don't see him around, either
<ScottK> So you can write this up as "successfully processed applications for all applicants present."
<tumbleweed> :)
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  9 18:00:25 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> hi!
 * jjohansen \o
<tyhicks> Hello
 * sbeattie o/
<micahg> o/
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> I am doing some apparmor documentation for mount rules so it can be included in the next apparmor upload
<jdstrand> I plan to finish my MIR audits this week
<sbeattie> jdstrand: until the server team adds some more? :-)
<jdstrand> I am down to 2 for the server team. 2 others I may punt on
<jdstrand> sbeattie: dude :P
<jdstrand> 1 of those 2 is half-done
<jdstrand> I then need to do all the performance review stuff for everyone
<jdstrand> there is an embargoed issue I am working on
<jdstrand> I need to move to install audits after that. if by some chance there is more time, I might get back to some of my assigned updates
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: is on vacation today and friday, and next week. I know he is working on some pending updates
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on triage this week
<sbeattie> I'm working on fixing more apparmor bugs, though I've submitted fixes upstream for the ones targeted for release.
<sbeattie> I expect we should upload an updated package today or tomorrow
<jdstrand> sbeattie: I agree
<sbeattie> and then anything further should get staged for an SRU
<jdstrand> we want to get as much as we can in for final freeze. other bug fixes of yours that don't make it can be SRUd (if needed)
<jdstrand> heh, yes :)
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me
<sbeattie> micahg: you're up
<micahg> I have a short week (off Friday), I have another chromium update, and am still working on the stuff from last week (thunderbird stable release migration and webkit stable release migration)
<micahg> I think that's it for me
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> I took an embargoed issue late last week that I'm currently finishing up
<tyhicks> That kept me from getting to my upstream eCryptfs todo list, so I'll focus on that after I get the embargoed update out and before I take another update this week
<tyhicks> That's all I've got
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I need to finish up with work on several bugs, 959560, 959352, 969228, 970647, 968956, 955892, 921000, 974616, some are already only going to happen for SRU, but I'd like to get some of them into the next upload.
<jjohansen> Beyond that I need to finish writing the rough draft/info for mount rules.
<jjohansen> release Beta5
<jjohansen> and finish up outstanding work items
<jjohansen> I think thats it from me
<sbeattie> jjohansen: let me know what I need to review and help with.
<jjohansen> sbeattie: will do, I would like to hear your thoughts on the extension of the test suite, I posted last week
 * jjohansen has been using it to create some regression tests
<sbeattie> jjohansen: okay, I'll respond on list for that.
<jjohansen> thanks
<jjohansen> jdstrand: back to you
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mapserver.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/bozohttpd.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/beanstalkd.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ipmitool.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libipc-pubsub-perl.html
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> be sure to participate in Ubuntu desktop ISO testing on Thursdays from now til release following the email I forwarded to you. This is considered vitally important for all of UE. Feel free to ask questions outside of the meeting
<jdstrand> please make sure to complete peer reviews by EOD on Wednesday, if you haven't already
<jdstrand> also, we should start our UDS planning (hard to believe it is so close!)
<jdstrand> I'll create a wiki page for us to start brain dumping
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  9 18:23:48 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-09-18.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-09-18.00.html
<micahg> jdstrand: thanks
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks
<poettone> Hello All!
<poettone> can anyone tell me if there is a package we need for triage called "fridge"?
<poettone> I see it on the calendar page but is that something I need on my machine to monitor?
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-10
<gotwig> Morning
<Destine> elky, hey
<elky> hi Destine
<gotwig> is now the Ubuntu Member selection :X ?
<elky> we have lifeless too, so we just need 1 more
<elky> gotwig, yes, you're at the bottom of the list, so you'll have to be patient
<elky> freeflying?
<Destine> ejat?
<Destine> elky, are we going to meet a quorum?
<lifeless> o/
<lifeless> czajkowski: yo
<elky> Destine, maybe if someone from another board is
<czajkowski> aloha
<lifeless> czajkowski: can you help us meet quorum ?
<czajkowski> lifeless: I can indeed
<lifeless> asiapac rmb meeting that is
<czajkowski> as long as I dont have to chair :)
 * lifeless tags elky
<Destine> czajkowski, thanks.
<Destine> we meet a quorum now~ happy~
<elky> What do I need to type to start the meeting and have all the votes right?
<elky> I dont know how to drive this bot :(
<Destine> elky, let me.
<elky> Destine, okies :)
<kidsodateless> hello
<Destine> #startmeeting ubuntu member
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 10 10:09:41 2012 UTC.  The chair is Destine. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu member Meeting | Current topic:
<Destine> #chair Destine elky lifeless
<meetingology> Current chairs: Destine elky lifeless
 * gotwig finds that very complicated 
<Destine> anybody who is here for the application?
<jaddi27> I am here, 4th on the list
<lifeless> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<gotwig> I am, the last on the list
<kidsodateless> present
<Destine> lifeless, thanks.
<lifeless> bone* isn't online
<lifeless> should remove them I think
<lifeless> well, not in this channel
<Destine> #meetingtopic jaddi27's application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | jaddi27's application Meeting | Current topic:
<lifeless> oscalation isn't in th echannel either
<Destine> jaddi27, please briefly introduce yourself.
<lifeless> not bodman456
<elky> lifeless, if you're editing, aiui oscalation was refused last time
<lifeless> elky: I'm not
<lifeless> jaddi27: hello ?
<jaddi27> Hi, I am Joel Addison. I have been a member of the Ubuntu Australia LoCo for the past 4-5 years, and have been mostly active in translations and the Loco
<Destine> jaddi27, hey?
<czajkowski> jaddi27: hi there thanks for coming .
<jaddi27> czajkowski, Happy to be here
<czajkowski> jaddi27: so how did you get involved in ubuntu and your loco ?
<jaddi27> I started using ubuntu in 2006 when I was trying to find other operating systems to use
<jaddi27> I found out about the loco shortly after that, mainly through the team mailing list
<jaddi27> In the last year or two, I have got more involved in the loco, and have started to chair the monthly meetings along with another member of the team
<Destine> jaddi27, it seems that you did global jams. can you please briefly talk about them?
<jaddi27> I ran two jams for the Precise cycle this year. The first was a wiki jam, where I aimed to clean up the Wiki section for Ubuntu-AU. We got a fair bit fixed up, so the wiki is easier to use for new people
<lifeless> whats involved in running a jam ?
<jaddi27> The second jam was a localisation jam, which had the aim of discussing the various aspects of ubuntu that could be localised for Australia to be released as a custom distro
<jaddi27> I ran my Jams online in the IRC channel for ubuntu-au, but I see them as a good way for people interested in ubuntu to get involved with their communities and other aspects
<jaddi27> They are especially good for encouraging people who are not interested in coding to get involved with Ubuntu
<Destine> jaddi27, good for you.
<lifeless> whats involved in running a jam ?
<jaddi27> To run a jam, I advertised it in various ways, including through the IRC meetings, the mailing list, and the loco.ubuntu.com section for Ubuntu-AU. On the occasion of the event, I started a meeting in the IRC channel and lead discussions for the event
<jaddi27> For example, with the Wiki Jam, I was mainly directing people as to what sections of the wiki could be improved and listening to other people's suggestions as to what could be improved
<Destine> jaddi27, thank you. I am ready to vote.
<Destine> #voters Destine elky lifeless czajkowski
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine czajkowski elky lifeless
<jaddi27> Destine, Ok. Thanks
<Destine> #vote jaddi27's application
<meetingology> Please vote on: jaddi27's application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<elky> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elky
<Destine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Destine
<lifeless> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from lifeless
<czajkowski> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from czajkowski
<Destine> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: jaddi27's application
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Destine> jaddi27, congrats!
<jaddi27> Destine, Thanks a lot
 * benonsoftware high fives jaddi27 
<kidsodateless> congrats!
<czajkowski> quorum is 4  and you need half plus 1 to pass
<czajkowski> so that would be 3 +1s
<czajkowski> the bot doesnt seem to take this into account
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you may want to look into the bot and voting
<jaddi27> ah, I was wondering about that
<czajkowski> jaddi27: sorry at present you haven't been successful
<jaddi27> Ok, that is alright
<czajkowski> for me I'd love ot see more testimionals of your work
<Destine> kidsodateless, hey?
<Destine> #meetingtopic kidsodateless's application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | kidsodateless's application Meeting | Current topic:
<kidsodateless> i'm here
<Destine> kidsodateless, please briefly introduce yourself to us.
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/kidsodateless
<kidsodateless> Hello! I'm Efren Montales Jr, 23 years old
<kidsodateless> a sysadmin, wayfarer, Free Software Advocate, Ubuntu and Firefox Rocker
<kidsodateless> I'm part of Ubuntu Team Philippines
<kidsodateless> My contributions include advocacy and iso testing
<kidsodateless> I started advocating Ubuntu since 2009, i organized SFD, release party and had some free talks from different places in the country,
<lifeless> win 84
<lifeless> bah sorry
<kidsodateless>  Aside from that i'm also an active iso tester since 11.04 development releases.
<kidsodateless> you can check some pictures link on my wiki
<czajkowski> kidsodateless: how would being an Ubuntu member help you in the future?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: #votesrequired 3
<Destine> AlanBell, thanks!
<kidsodateless> that would a great opportunity for in my advocacy in the near futre
<lifeless> #votesrequired 3
<meetingology> votes now need 3 to be passed
<czajkowski> AlanBell: thanks
<czajkowski> ok no more questions from me
<Destine> #vote kidsodateless's application
<meetingology> Please vote on: kidsodateless's application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<lifeless> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from lifeless
<elky> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elky
<czajkowski> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
<Destine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Destine
<Destine> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: kidsodateless's application
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<czajkowski> well done and welcome aboard
<kidsodateless> thank you all
<FAITH> Congratulations! ^^
<Destine> kidsodateless, congrats.
<Destine> gotwig, you here?
<gotwig> Oh, yes :-)
<Ted_> congrats kidsodateless
<Destine> #meetingtopic gotwig's application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | gotwig's application Meeting | Current topic:
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Eduard%20Gotwig
<czajkowski> gotwig: ohh the cooking lens!
<elky> gotwig, hello?
<czajkowski> very nice indeed!
<gotwig> czajkowski: you know it :-)
<gotwig> ok, ready :D ?
<czajkowski> I do indeed, I've seen popey mention it a lot
<elky> Introduce yourself please
<gotwig> I am Eduard Gotwig, a 17 years old student that studies computer science in Germany. I am member of the LUG Bergisch Gladbach ( thats near Cologne)  and try to bring Ubuntu and free software in general forward.
<Destine> gotwig, I am not quite familiar with cooking lens. could you please introduce that to me?
<gotwig> Destine: ok, that is a lens (software for ubuntu unity) with that you can search right from the dash for recipes from your local computer, and from the internet
<gotwig> Gourmet Recipe Manager, and recipefy.com support
<Destine> gotwig, i see.
<Destine> #vote gotwig's appication
<meetingology> Please vote on: gotwig's appication
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<czajkowski> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
<Destine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Destine
<elky> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elky
<lifeless> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from lifeless
<Destine> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: gotwig's appication
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<gotwig> That's it :-) ?
<czajkowski> gotwig: well done and thank you for your contributions
<gotwig> czajkowski: look for them in the future ;) ^^
<Destine> gotwig, i am going to try that lens.
<gotwig> czajkowski: I am happy that I have "fans" :-)
<Destine> anybody else who is here for application?
<gotwig> Destine: alright. Just add the unity scope packagers PPA, install the package unity-lens-cooking , restart your pc, or unity (It's a daemon you know) and search for recips. Language support is one of the newest features
<gotwig> "recipes" :X
<elky> Destine, the ones on the list aren't here it seems
<Destine> elky, think so too.
<elky> Destine, we don't need anyone not on the list :P
<gotwig> Destine: see the old OMG! Ubuntu! article for more details :-)
<Destine> so we end the meeting.
<Destine> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 10 10:50:59 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-10-10.09.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-10-10.09.html
<gotwig> thank you
<czajkowski> Destine: well done
<Destine> czajkowski, thank you!
<Destine> thanks, everybody.
<gotwig> ok, so what now :D ?
<Destine> gotwig, have some fun.
<popey> gotwig: congratulations
<lifeless> czajkowski: tanks
<gotwig> where are tanks :O ?
<czajkowski> in my inbox :/
<iaw> congrats gotwig!
<kidsodateless> congrats, gotwig
<gotwig> kidsodateless: thank you. Congrats to you, too over the ocean :-)
<gotwig> iaw: thank you
 * gotwig wants to shake some hands, lol
<kaustubhp> Hello any idea of when the interview is going to be held THNX :)
<kaustubhp> any one online ?
<zul> good morning
<arosales> Hello
<three18ti> hello.
<m_3> o/
<utlemming> good GMT afternoon
<hallyn> hey
<arosales> Is smoser chair'ing today?
<smoser> i can chair.
<arosales> not sure if https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting is up to date
<smoser> probably is.
<koolhead11> hi
<lynxman> o/
<smoser> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 10 16:03:26 2012 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<smoser> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> SpamapS invite aquette to next server team meeting to discuss servercloud-p-cloud-power-management
<smoser> * SpamapS invite aquette to next server team meeting to discuss servercloud-p-cloud-power-management
<smoser> SpamapS, ^ ?
<SpamapS> ugh sorry I forgot that one
<adam_g> o/
<SpamapS> Its a bit late
<SpamapS> the blueprint though, should just be postponed to Q
<smoser> well, it was a bit late lat week too.. :). ok.
<smoser> [ACTION] SpamapS to postpone servercloud-p-cloud-power-management to Q
<meetingology> ACTION: SpamapS to postpone servercloud-p-cloud-power-management to Q
<smoser> * jamespage to raise bugs for FTBFS for server related packages from latest rebuild test.
<jamespage> not required...
<jamespage> all fixed before I had a chance :-)
<smoser> [TOPIC] Precise Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Precise Development
<smoser> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<smoser> bug 960276
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 960276 in nova (Ubuntu) "a bad AMI can hang an entire compute node" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/960276
<smoser> (am i just supposed to walk this list ?)
<zul> yes
<zul> thats one is fixed, patch backed out basicaly
<smoser> zul is that one fix-released now ?
<smoser> is it released ?
<zul> yes
<smoser> please mark as such.
<smoser> bug 924739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924739 in squid3 (Ubuntu Precise) "after upgrade from oneiric to precise, previous squid config unused, cannot be used when relocated" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924739
<smoser> adam_g, ^
<adam_g> smoser: still pending but me and jamespage have started discussing a way forward, should have something this week
<adam_g> jamespage: what do you think?
<smoser> bug 928990
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 928990 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "fsck / dirty filesystem on instance is death" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/928990
<smoser> utlemming, ^ did you at all look ?
<utlemming> smoser: yes, I started, but didn't get anywhere
<smoser> do you think there is any chance of looking that like today?
<smoser> bug 930916
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 930916 in amavisd-new (Ubuntu) "amavis start-stop script fails to stop amavisd" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930916
<smoser> SpamapS,
<smoser> ^
<utlemming> smoser: yes, I'm blocked on other things, so I'll dig on that today
<smoser> bug 966115
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966115 in nova (Ubuntu) "nova-api{,-os-compute,-ec2,-os-volume} relationship" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966115
<SpamapS> smoser: I suppose we should get that fixed this week ;)
<smoser> woot.
<smoser> adam_g, ^
<adam_g> smoser: will go out fix releaesd with the final nova upload this week
<smoser> good.
<smoser> bug 828789
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 828789 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Precise) "please enable spice support" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/828789
<hallyn> uh, somebody marked that in progress, don't know why.
<hallyn> in any case spice is tech preview and therefor wishlist/low prio, if there are bugs
<hallyn> (concerns about the debian packaging going forward, etc)
<smoser> hallyn, then you can/should un-tag that with release
<smoser> er... i guess maybe you cant.
<smoser> maybe we need one, dave walker to do so
<smoser> bug 880339
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 880339 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Precise) "AppArmor profile needs update" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880339
<smoser> SpamapS, ^ is that you?
<hallyn> smoser: actually i'm going to mark it fix released.  i see now why it was marked in progress, and it was wrong
<smoser> hallyn, good deal.
<SpamapS> smoser: its on the user who reported it, who has not responded.
<smoser> bug 907197
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 907197 in nova (Ubuntu) "ip address can't be injected into the instance when using lxc " [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907197
<smoser> zul, ^
<zul> that shouldnt be on the list anymore i think still no response
<zul> and havent been able to reproduce it
<smoser> have you injected ip address into ubuntu images using lxc ?
<smoser> successfully then ?
<smoser> zul,
<smoser> bug bug 916065
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 916065 in php5 (Ubuntu Precise) "php5 sessionmanagement ignores values in custom ini files" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/916065
<zul> smoser: yep i have
<smoser> jamespage, was that one you ^
<smoser> just pulled your nanme from a hat.
<smoser> bug bug 967430
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967430 in cobbler (Ubuntu) "Switching to internal python tftp server fails due to file name change" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967430
<jamespage> smoser: I was mean't to talk to SpamapS about that one but have not
<smoser> roaksoax, ^
<SpamapS> that PHP bug looks straight forward enough.
<roaksoax> smoser: i'll take care of it this week
<smoser> roaksoax, k.
<smoser> ok. then we're moving on
<smoser>  * https://launchpad.net/bugs/967430
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967430 in cobbler (Ubuntu) "Switching to internal python tftp server fails due to file name change" [Medium,Triaged]
<smoser> that looks much better.
<smoser> but still plenty left
<smoser> is there anything specific to do here ?
<smoser> ok. well, unless arosales or Daviey want to tell me otherwise, i think we'll just say "please take a llook at those and make sure they're in the proper state".
<smoser> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<m_3> devopsdays last week... panel and then two talks.  The panel w/ puppet and chef really couldn't've gone any better... it was cool.  My ignite talk sucked, but then the longer open-session QnA went pretty well
<arosales> m_3 I wouldn't say sucked
<SpamapS> m_3: ignite.. thats balls. :)
<smoser> ODS is next week. http://summit.openstack.org/
<m_3> by the end, I'm pretty sure peeps were tired of hearing about all the cool shit you can do with juju
<m_3> :)
<SpamapS> Percona Live (MySQL ecosystem) conference tomorrow I will be there http://www.percona.com/live/mysql-conference-2012/
<arosales> m_3 you had pretty good participation afterwards
<koolhead11> i participated in ubuntucloudday india, met nijaba and we had awesome openstack demo :)
<m_3> koolhead11: awesome man
<smoser> ok. moving on.
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<smoser> hggdh, ^ anything ?
<smoser> hggdh, your cobbler bug fix just got into oneiric-updates.
<smoser> well, anyone have any general QA like disucssion ?
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Bug 974982 recently got introduced by an upstream stable change applied to precise.  Upstream had been trying to prevent it getting applied or have it reverted but it has not happened there, yet. ogasawara took the revert and uploaded today (or will do so). So for release that should be resolved.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974982 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "pvops NULL pointer dereference oops in latest precise kernel" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974982
<smb> Apart from that nothing big since last week. (I think)
<smb> ..
<smoser> kernels... i dont believe i have much here.
<smoser> smoser, do you remember precise kernel bug on cc1.4xlarge ?
<smoser> i was just looking
<smoser> smoser, do you remember ?
<SpamapS> smb?
<SpamapS> smoser: quit talking to yourself and chair the meeting ;)
<smb> Not reall y waht it was again
<smoser> dagum you tab completion
<smoser> i remember it was a crash or stuck cpu and we saw it in both precise and oneiric
<smb> Or was that for hangs on lucid...?
<smb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/944923
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 944923 in linux (Ubuntu) "[EC2:cg1.4xlarge] CPU#0 stuck for 23s! [migration/0:6] __do_softirq+0x60/0x210" [Low,Triaged]
<smoser> yeah.
<smb> I think that behaves the same way back a longer time
<smb> And I think I could not do something locally to make it happen
<smoser> ok.
<smoser> moving on then
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing to report. Any questions for me?
<hallyn> rbasak: did you run the lxc testsuite in last 2 weeks?
<rbasak> hallyn: no
<hallyn> or 3? :)
<hallyn> would you mind?
<rbasak> hallyn: sure, I'll do it now
<hallyn> thanks
<rbasak> hallyn: https://code.launchpad.net/~serge-hallyn/+junk/lxc-test still or has it moved?
<smoser> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<smoser> anyone got anything here?
<Daviey> nein
<arosales> smoser, do you mind if we go over the essential and high blueprints that are a bit behind?
<hallyn> rbasak: still there, thx (i promise i'll convert to python-unit in qrt soon :)
<rbasak> hallyn: ok, no problem
<smoser> arosales, sure.
<arosales> looking here
<arosales> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
<SpamapS> Just some heads up.. Juju should be landing yet another upload this week with some security improvements and "subordinates"
<arosales> re juju: \o/
<SpamapS> Also I'm hoping CEPH is approved for main this week, and we can actually get a FFE for kvm to link against librbd/librados
<arosales> and CEPH too, nice :-)
<arosales> Blueprints
<hallyn> SpamapS: color me surprised
<SpamapS> hallyn: I know
<arosales> rbasak: servercloud-p-arm-service-orchestration
<SpamapS> hallyn: I've been testing, keep forgetting to loop you in ;)
<arosales> able to make progress on this one with MAAs?
<arosales> SpamapS: servercloud-p-automated-boot-testing probably got bumped with some of the other work
<hallyn> SpamapS: please include http://people.canonical.com/~serge/{qemu,libvirt}-rbd.debdiff in your testing
<arosales> zul: does servercloud-p-openstack need some updates with essex final being  commited?
<zul> arosales: probably yes
<hallyn> (I will likely ask to push those this afternoon, requested by Ceph folks)
<arosales> zul, thanks
<rbasak> arosales: I have been looking at MAAS with respect to ARM, but I don't think it's realistic to have this done for P.
<arosales> adam_g: are you able to make progress on  servercloud-p-openstack-charms now?
<rbasak> arosales: solely because we aren't at a stage where it's possible to make an estimate yet
<arosales> rbasak: do you want to comment and postpone the appropriate tasks @ servercloud-p-arm-service-orchestration?
<rbasak> arosales: OK, will do
<arosales> rbasak: thanks
<arosales> jamespage: is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-hdp-hadoop also progressing ok?
<arosales> adam_g: looks like this one will be complete at uds: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-openstack-testing
<arosales> smoser: those cover the high and essential
<smoser> k.
<smoser> sorry for jumping the gun on you earlier.
<smoser> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<smoser> oops
<arosales> smoser: no worries, I was slow on the draw
<smoser> i thin kwe're done now
<smoser> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date and time
<zul> swift 1.4.8 is waiting to be accepted
<smoser> next meeting
<smoser>  Tuesday 2012-04-17 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<smoser> i suspect many members to be Openstack'ing at that time.
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 10 16:40:05 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-10-16.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-10-16.03.html
<arosales> Ursinha: looks like you are next on the list to chair, does that work for your schedule?
<Daviey> super
<arosales> smoser: thanks for chairing
<Ursinha> arosales, sure
<arosales> Ursinha: cool, thanks.
<three18ti> crap, had to work during the open discussion...  Maybe if someone is still on, how is MaaS different than another BM service like Cobbler?
<lynxman> three18ti: MaaS has some extra features like full EC2 api support, a nice web ui to deploy machines on demand and it's tightly integrated with juju
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 10 16:59:30 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<apw> o/
<herton> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<ppisati> o/
<cking> o/
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing new to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.04.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || hardware-p-kernel-delta-review         || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || hardware-p-kernel-config-review        || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-p-kernel-versions-and-flavors || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> apw and I are aware of our work items, we'll get them closed before final.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The Precise kernel is currently frozen and Final Freeze is this Thurs
<ogasawara> Apr 12.  We have coordinated one additional upload scheduled for today
<ogasawara> (likely to occur after this meeting).  At this point in time, all
<ogasawara> patches are subject to our SRU policy and uploads will only be granted
<ogasawara> at the discretion of the release team.
<ogasawara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/StablePatchFormat
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 12 - Final Freeze (~2 days)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 19 - Release Candidate (~1 week)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 26 - Final Release (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> Currently we have 72 CVEs on our radar, with no new CVEs added this week.
<apw> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<apw>  
<apw> Overall the backlog has decresed very slightly this week:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (Apr. 10):
<bjf>  
<bjf> Oneiric has been somewhat problematic. We ran into a couple of very bad regressions
<bjf> that were pretty quickly identified. Our policy is to "revert aggressively" however
<bjf> our number one rule is to "Use our best judgement and do the right thing". In this
<bjf> case we are also running into the end of the Precise development cycle when testing
<bjf> resources (human) are scarce. After discussing this with a number of people we have
<bjf> decided to fix these known regressions and also pull in the stable release that was
<bjf> sitting on master-next and crank that out. The cycle will be extended with regression
<bjf> testing happening the week of May 1st.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy    - 2.6.24-31.101 - Nothing this cycle
<bjf>  * Lucid    - 2.6.32-41.88  - Verification; 52 commits in total.
<bjf>  * Maverick - 2.6.35-32.68  - Ready for -updates; NOTE: THIS IS THE LAST MAVERICK KERNEL!
<bjf>  * Natty    - 2.6.38-14.58  - Ready for -updates; 12 commits in total. Mostly eCryptfs and KVM.
<bjf>  * Oneiric  - 3.0.0-19.32   - Verification;
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 10 17:03:40 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-10-16.59.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-10-16.59.html
<bodhi_zazen> o/
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone here for the BT meeting ?
<benonsoftware> bodhi_zazen: Yeah, isn't it in 40 minutes though?
<bodhi_zazen> IDK for sure
<bodhi_zazen> I did not call the meeting
<benonsoftware> According to my time its in 40 minutes
<benonsoftware> Haha, now we get the mass joins :P
<JoseeAntonioR> Just one more min, and we'll see 10+ joins
<astraljava> That's the reason I hide them from my client, otherwise it's all I'd see on this 30-line terminal window. :)
 * MobileDruif will be lurking, practically falling asleep as it is
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-11
<MobileDruif> Kids these days with their terminal windows...
<IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, It's all yours :]
<bodhi_zazen> Who is here for the meeting ?
<benonsoftware> o/
<bodhi_zazen> o/
<Unit193> I am.
 * benonsoftware tells someone to do #startmeeting :P
<JoseeAntonioR> o/
<MobileDruif> Sort of
<JoseeAntonioR> Who will?
<IAmNotThatGuy> o/
<Unit193> astraljava isn't.
<bodhi_zazen> Agenda is :
<bodhi_zazen> 1) Re-defining Mission and Vision statement of UBT.
<bodhi_zazen> 2) Final decision about the Team and Focus Groups' Structure .
<bodhi_zazen> 3) Task assignment to people
<bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 11 00:01:39 2012 UTC.  The chair is bodhi_zazen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bodhi_zazen> [topic]Re-defining Mission and Vision statement of UBT.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Re-defining Mission and Vision statement of UBT.
<duanedesign> o/
<bodhi_zazen> Are we re-defining it again ?
<bodhi_zazen> lol
<MobileDruif> Apparently
<IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, We should change the Vision of BT. It should not be just helping the beginners enter the community. Moreover, we should make BT as the entry point for the whole community
<IAmNotThatGuy> Missions should be updated like milestones to be achieved for each six months or an year
<bodhi_zazen> I am not sure the BT is going to be the entry point, team is too isolated
<bodhi_zazen> forums, LP, IRC, and askubuntu are the most common entry points
<duanedesign> current mission: The Ubuntu Beginners Team exists to enhance the initial experience of new Ubuntu users and to guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community.
<bodhi_zazen> Mission is to guide those new to contributing to the community to the various team
<bodhi_zazen> Mission should likely be "To guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community."
<IAmNotThatGuy> Okay
<bodhi_zazen> The first part of the mission "to enhance the initial experience of new Ubuntu users" requires you all to be active on forums, #ubuntu, LP, and askubuntu
<MrChrisDruif> So we are just nitpicking about formulation on the wiki?
<JoseeAntonioR> Not always people are in #ubuntu, as it's too noisy. Also, askubuntu is a similar interface to LP, so mainly both of them are fine
<bodhi_zazen> The BT is what you all want to make of it really
<MrChrisDruif> JoseeAntonioR: I don't see how LP and askubuntu are similar in interface
<MrChrisDruif> Forums and LP are more similar afaik
<bodhi_zazen> If you want to greet new users, to me that means active on forums, askubuntu, #ubuntu, and LP
<duanedesign> the 'to enhance the initial experience of new users'  i thought was more for those who like to help out in #ubuntu-beginners
<JoseeAntonioR> Well, in LP (for LP Answers) and in askubuntu you ask questions, and they're answered, the question being asked and tracked
<bodhi_zazen> I do not mind #ubuntu-beginners as a support channel, but I would suggest you *try* to enhance #ubuntu if you use IRC
<duanedesign> whatever if we want to get rid of it fine
<IAmNotThatGuy> most of the members in -team are not even watching the support channel of our team. Everyone should idle in the support channel too, so that they can help the people with issues (something which you have already solved or you can try googling) and learn
<bodhi_zazen> +1 IAmNotThatGuy
<JoseeAntonioR> I think that's the main point. #ubuntu is too noisy for new users, and they can't read/understand what's told.
<duanedesign> well if we reduce the mission to guiding people into the community we do not nees #u-b
<duanedesign> need*
<bodhi_zazen> +1 to reducing mission statement
<IAmNotThatGuy> If if you don't take a step to enter and 'watch the people'/ 'you doing' help, you are failing to help achieve the BT Mission
<bodhi_zazen> We can expand it if the team desires to expand it in the future
<IAmNotThatGuy> Okay
<bodhi_zazen> [vote] Mission statement "To guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community."
<meetingology> Please vote on: Mission statement "To guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community."
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<IAmNotThatGuy> duanedesign, We can use #u-b, where people can learn how to help. ;)
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<duanedesign> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from duanedesign
<benonsoftware> Can anyone vote for this?
<IAmNotThatGuy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from IAmNotThatGuy
<duanedesign> yes benonsoftware
<IAmNotThatGuy> benonsoftware, aye
<benonsoftware> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from benonsoftware
<JoseeAntonioR> +1
<MrChrisDruif> +0
<meetingology> +1 received from JoseeAntonioR
<meetingology> +0 received from MrChrisDruif
<bodhi_zazen> any other votes ?
<IAmNotThatGuy> benonsoftware, remember, our team is open to everyone ;)
<bodhi_zazen> [endvote]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Mission statement "To guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community."
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bodhi_zazen> [topic]Final decision about the Team and Focus Groups' Structure .
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Final decision about the Team and Focus Groups' Structure .
<bodhi_zazen> Are any of the FG active ?
<duanedesign> I think we should get rid of the FG
<benonsoftware> Not that I've seen
<IAmNotThatGuy> Ummm, well, why not give a shot with the vision statement bodhi_zazen ? :]
<MrChrisDruif> Not that I'm aware of
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone think we need them ?
<duanedesign> We do not really need the structure, whatever it is, that the FG gives
<duanedesign> We can still guide people to the appropriate places in the community without the burden of maintaining the FG
<IAmNotThatGuy> if we are planning to update the vision asn "an entry point to the community" we will need FGs
 * benonsoftware has mixed opinions about that
<bodhi_zazen> [vote]abolilsh focus groups and work as a team in #ubuntu-beginners-team
<meetingology> Please vote on: abolilsh focus groups and work as a team in #ubuntu-beginners-team
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<JoseeAntonioR> I have an idea for the FG
<duanedesign> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from duanedesign
<JoseeAntonioR> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from JoseeAntonioR
<bodhi_zazen> I think FG should start with a group of contributing members, not an idea
<benonsoftware> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from benonsoftware
<MrChrisDruif> It was from back in the hay days that they needed some extra structure
<JoseeAntonioR> We can abolish FG, but we can still be divided in specialities
<IAmNotThatGuy> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from IAmNotThatGuy
<bodhi_zazen> If you have an idea, present it in -team and build support
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<IAmNotThatGuy> However, we can set a base line to teach people with the help of the FGs :[
<bodhi_zazen> If the team is so active so as to be disruptive to activity in -team, then, and only then, make a FG
<bodhi_zazen> any more votes
<MrChrisDruif> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from MrChrisDruif
<IAmNotThatGuy> Okay. As you say bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> [endvote]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: abolilsh focus groups and work as a team in #ubuntu-beginners-team
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:1 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion carried
<duanedesign> I think instead of funneling people into FG we move them into Documentation Team, MOTU, Bug Control etc
<bodhi_zazen> IAmNotThatGuy: FG need to be a lot more active
<JoseeAntonioR> Yes, and we should still be 'divided' if that's the correct word in specialities
<bodhi_zazen> +1 duanedesign
<MrChrisDruif> I can't keep up on my phone, I'll leave you guys to it.
<bodhi_zazen> [topic]Task assignment to people
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Task assignment to people
<IAmNotThatGuy> duanedesign, Is there any mentoring peocess going on in each teams or the people are directly put into contribution and self-learned ?
<bodhi_zazen> I am not really into assigning tasks
<bodhi_zazen> either the team is willing to step up and accomplish / contribute or it should be abolished
<duanedesign> i think what we can do is say to the user.  If you want to do bugs go to ubuntu-bugs. Then the BT member will be in that channel as well to continue to help the user
<duanedesign> IAmNotThatGuy: ^
<bodhi_zazen> +1 duanedesign
<Unit193> Right, or find another BT member that can "take over" in the sitting in with. (For example, I'd not do much good in a programming channel)
<benonsoftware> When the time comes could I please quickly say something about the team wiki?
<IAmNotThatGuy> Okay. I thought of making a proper channel of learning process through BT ;D If e get enough active members, I will put for this idea again ;]
<bodhi_zazen> any more comments about assignments ?
<duanedesign> wiki is the big one
<bodhi_zazen> [topic]wiki
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: wiki
<duanedesign> it needs a big update
<benonsoftware> +1
<duanedesign> i will be happy to work on this on the weekend
<JoseeAntonioR> +1
<IAmNotThatGuy> I was working on the FG pages. Now I have to stop it, remove and update the main wiki pages :]
<benonsoftware> I'm happy to work on it when I have the time (should be most of the week)
<bodhi_zazen> How about if we ask the team as the next task to update the wiki
<bodhi_zazen> everyone can contribute
<IAmNotThatGuy> aye
<bodhi_zazen> use -team for discussion if needed
<bodhi_zazen> got to start small, with something you can accomplish
<duanedesign> IAmNotThatGuy: you can just unlink the pages
<bodhi_zazen> build on success
<IAmNotThatGuy> duanedesign, okay
<duanedesign> IAmNotThatGuy: keep them in case they are ever needed again
<bodhi_zazen> you can also mark pages for deletion
<duanedesign> or that :)
<duanedesign> benonsoftware: did you want to say something?
<benonsoftware> Well, what should we do with the old FG pages?
<duanedesign> i say for know just remove links to them
<bodhi_zazen> Ask anyone even remotely interested in the FG to update the page
<IAmNotThatGuy> okay
<bodhi_zazen> If it is not updated within a month -> mark for deletion
<bodhi_zazen> you all as a team need to set some mutually agreeable goals and work together to achieve them, or there is no real team
<bodhi_zazen> start small
<duanedesign> +1
<bodhi_zazen> discuss it among yourselves
<bodhi_zazen> on -team
<bodhi_zazen> build on success
<duanedesign> anyone have anything else?
<duanedesign> thanks bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> [topic]open floor
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: open floor
<benonsoftware> Next meeting on the 9th of May?
<JoseeAntonioR> And what about Mentorship? Is it also going to be abolished, or it's going to remain open?
<IAmNotThatGuy> Is there anyone with any other topics to discuss ?
<IAmNotThatGuy> benonsoftware, yes
<bodhi_zazen> JoseeAntonioR: I like all these ideas, if you want to do mentorship => wiki page please
<bodhi_zazen> and build support on -team
<bodhi_zazen> I honestly do not think we need meetings
<bodhi_zazen> most all of this can be done on -team and a set of wiki pages
<duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: currently we do not have a mentorship. Membership in the team is open.
<duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: though we could do both i guess. Have an open team and have mentorshps if someone wanted the extra support joining the community
<bodhi_zazen> We sort of need the team to build on small accomplishments, then aim for the stars
<JoseeAntonioR> Then, let's see if someone points to the channel for this, in the case this doesn't happens then it's out of the line.
<bodhi_zazen> JoseeAntonioR: I am not following you on that
<bodhi_zazen> You all have good ideas, but the perception I have is that we need to turn that energy into action
<JoseeAntonioR> If not, then it'll stay as idle as it's now
<duanedesign> yep
<bodhi_zazen> Exactly
<IAmNotThatGuy> true
<bodhi_zazen> the BT has great potential
<bodhi_zazen> convert the potential into action
<bodhi_zazen> start small
<bodhi_zazen> which is why the mission statement has contracted
<JoseeAntonioR> Step by step. We're on the first one, which is setting our goals
<bodhi_zazen> Everyone wants to support beginners, on #ubuntu-beginners or elsewhere
<IAmNotThatGuy> okies
<bodhi_zazen> but we need to translate that into action
<bodhi_zazen> Any other comments ?
<duanedesign> i think reducing the team structure back to the very basics will hopefully help.
<bodhi_zazen> I HIGHLY suggest ongoing discussions in -team
<bodhi_zazen> during the month == time for discussion
<duanedesign> I think members are confused as to how things work
<bodhi_zazen> meetings = make a community decision
<duanedesign> agreed. All discussion should mostly be done before the meeting
<bodhi_zazen> Some discussion is acceptable during meetings, but the majority of the discussion needs to happen between meetings
<bodhi_zazen> Example of what I see as a team effort ...
<bodhi_zazen> Let us assume IAmNotThatGuy  is interested in improving IRC
<bodhi_zazen> IAmNotThatGuy: should join #ubuntu and serve as a facilitator to the channel
<bodhi_zazen> http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml
<bodhi_zazen> http://freenode.net/catalysts.shtml
<bodhi_zazen> IAmNotThatGuy: then can guide people interested in IRC to participate in IRC
<IAmNotThatGuy> Gotcha
<bodhi_zazen> If the channel is too big, people get overwhelmed , use #ubuntu-beginners
<bodhi_zazen> fine, very valid point
<bodhi_zazen> who now will help ?
<bodhi_zazen> Say JoseeAntonioR is interested in wiki
<duanedesign> the $65,000 question
<bodhi_zazen> Join wiki team and facilitate new users on wiki
<bodhi_zazen> Who is willing to help JoseeAntonioR ?
<bodhi_zazen> and on
<bodhi_zazen> build a team
<bodhi_zazen> build community relations
<IAmNotThatGuy> duanedesign, why not a 1 billion dollar? ;]
<duanedesign> high roller
<duanedesign> :)
<JoseeAntonioR> It's basically a group/team work. If anyone helps, we will make big, enormous things.
<bodhi_zazen> team means you all work together and support eachother
<duanedesign> +1
<IAmNotThatGuy> _100
<IAmNotThatGuy> err +100*
<bodhi_zazen> start small, build on success
<IAmNotThatGuy> sure :]
 * benonsoftware looks at scroll back :/
<Unit193> And because you want to do IRC support doesn't really mean you have to be in #ubuntu, #ubuntu-beginners at least, and add whatever DE you also use (#lubuntu or #xubuntu), I personally can't help with 1 Unity question as I've never used it, but I can help with the others.
<Unit193> But don't just do it in #ubuntu-beginners
<IAmNotThatGuy> Plus, use google if you don;t know =]
<bodhi_zazen> +1 Unit193
<JoseeAntonioR> I agree with that, too.
<duanedesign> thank you everyone who attended
 * duanedesign is going to watch the rest of NCIS :) i will be in -team if anyone needs me
<IAmNotThatGuy> bye duanedesign
<benonsoftware> See ya duanedesign
<IAmNotThatGuy> Anymore questions or topics to discuss before ending the meeting?
<Unit193> IAmNotThatGuy: But, quality, not quantity.
<bodhi_zazen> I am going to have to leave as well
<IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, #endmeeting :]
<bodhi_zazen> I suggest we move the discussion to -team
<bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 11 00:43:43 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-00.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-00.01.html
<semut> haii
<balloons> hello everyone
<kanliot> hi
<balloons> hopefully everyone is ready for the Ubuntu Qa meeting
<balloons> I'll start
<balloons> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 11 14:01:50 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:
<balloons> can we get a roll call of who's about and listening in?
<astraljava> o/
<kanliot> o/
<astraljava> Well, it's +33% than the last time around. :D
<balloons> astraljava, :-)
<balloons> I was an hour early today
<astraljava> Or is it actually +50%? I suck at math.
<balloons> all the calenders just lie now that daylight savings happened
<astraljava> balloons: What, you still don't have DST nailed down? :)
<balloons> so let me grab the agenda and we'll get started
<balloons> astraljava, nope..
<balloons> clearly I don't
 * astraljava snickers
<balloons> hmm... no previous actions it seems
<balloons> ahh.. wait..
<balloons> there is one :-)
<balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:  Previous Actions
<balloons> ACTION: patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins.
<balloons> Looks like patrickmw isn't in here to answer sadly
<balloons> let's move on
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Updates
<balloons> jibel, are you about?
<balloons> guess not
<balloons> I can give somewhat of an update :-)
<balloons> So, planning has begun for next cycle and the first ideas are being floated for blueprints
<balloons> As a QA team, we're in the home stretch now with RC iso testing remaining to do
<balloons> ahh gema is here..
<gema> yes :)
<balloons> gema, I was attempting to update on ubuntu qa happenings
<balloons> care to toss in a few words
<balloons> I mentioned remaining iso testing, start of planning
<gema> so we are in the final sprint now, trying to get the most critical bugs fixed and trying to spot any regressions
<gema> starting tomorrow, it'd be good if we all tried to run the install test cases and some basic smoke testing once the system is installed (checkbox tests, maybe) so that we are sure
<gema> we don't  introduce any regressions
<gema> that's all from me
<balloons> thank you gema!
<balloons> any questions?
<balloons> alrighty, moving on then
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Flavor Updates
<balloons> astraljava, let's have you start us off if you would
<astraljava> Sure thing. For Studio, we're anxiously waiting for the new lowlatency kernel to land.
<astraljava> A couple of other usability bugs are waiting to be squashed, but sadly our court uploader is rather busy atm.
<astraljava> Just wrote to our mailing lists a show of hands/discs/usb sticks for RC testing.
<astraljava> But all in all, looking good so far.
<astraljava> For Xubuntu, not much to report.
<astraljava> Some minor bugs are being reported every now and again, but nothing to worry about.
<astraljava> ..
<balloons> right.. and still shipping 4.8
<balloons> awesome.. glad to hear things are finishing up nicely
<astraljava> Yes, and most likely 4.10 won't make it for Q cycle either.
<balloons> ohh, why's that?
<astraljava> It's slow progress.
<astraljava> But that's purely speculative.
<astraljava> ..
<balloons> kanliot, care to talk about lubuntu?
<kanliot> thx
<kanliot> everything is ok
<kanliot> end of report?
<astraljava> :)
<balloons> kanliot, awesome
<balloons> not sure if anyone from Kubuntu is about
<balloons> but they had some big news come out this past week
<balloons> kubuntu is going to be sponsored by blue systems, and riddell will continue to support and maintain it in that capacity
<balloons> so congrats to them ;-)
<astraljava> \o/
<balloons> finally, anyone from edubuntu about who cares to give an update?
<balloons> astraljava, did you have something?
<astraljava> Oh, no. Just a hoo-ray for Kubuntu's sake. :)
<balloons> ah-hah.. I figured
<balloons> ok, let
<balloons> let's move on
<balloons> [TOPIC] Blueprint updates / discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:  Blueprint updates / discussion
<balloons> not sure anyone has anything to add here.. speak up if so
<balloons> you can see the overall status of canonical qa team here: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-platform-qa.html
<balloons> overall, things look in great shape.. I was looking at the flavors as well.. xubuntu, ubuntu-studio both as almost complete
<balloons> so kudos
<balloons> anyone wish to add anything?
<astraljava> Thanks, I'll pass on to Scott.
<astraljava> ...and Pasi.
<balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:  Other topics
<balloons> last but not least everyone's favorite catch-all bucket
<balloons> anything to discuss or mention?
<balloons> well, my news is that as gema mentioned, I'll be doing iso testing tomorrow of the daily iso, and then running the checkbox tests, looking for regressions. I will send an email to the list with more instructions.. Further, having folks about to help answer questions for first-timers would be good in #ubuntu-testing (never a bad place to idle)
<balloons> the idea is to do it on thursday until end of month release happens.. so if your not too busy with end of cycle activities, give it a whirl.. it's less pressure than traditionally iso testing, and you can pick what iso and tests to run :-) Every bit helps and happy regression hunting
<balloons> that's it for me
<balloons> if no one has anything else, we'll end
<balloons> ok,thanks everyone for being here.. thanks kanliot for stepping in for phillw.. will we be seeing you for several weeks while he is out?
<kanliot> yes
<kanliot> :)
<balloons> :-)
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 11 14:33:11 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-14.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-14.01.html
<astraljava> Thanks Nick!
<balloons> hopefully we can get everyone here at this new time astraljava :-)
<balloons> last week was 8 folks.. so I think it is a better time
<astraljava> Would be good, but these are busy times.
<balloons> course I didn't show up
<astraljava> Oh, did I miss last week then?
<balloons> perhaps it's just me :-)
<astraljava> When was it that there was only the two of us?
<balloons> hmm.. I think perhaps you did
<astraljava> Right.
<balloons> I know I did
<balloons> hah
<astraljava> Oh right, yeah that's true. :)
 * slangasek waves
<infinity> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 11 15:01:20 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ogra_> moo
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson)
<slangasek> infinity bdmurray cjwatson stgraber doko barry ev ogra slangasek jodh
<infinity> - Was at Collab Summit last week, then a 4-day long weekend
<infinity> - Collab involved lots of interesting sessions, however the
<infinity>   most interesting were beer-fuelled discussions involving
<infinity>   EFI and pecoff signing, as well as (e)glibc conversations.
<infinity> - Dealing (again) with ARMhf linker location, as this seems
<infinity>   to have gone back to public bikeshedding mode when we
<infinity>   tried to push GCC patches upstream. :/
<infinity> - Worked on Tuesday on the above, and on a new eglibc upload.
<infinity> ...
<bdmurray> bug triage of update-manager bug reports
<bdmurray> bug triage of initramfs-tools bug reports which received a spike in bug reporting
<bdmurray> merge proposal for upstream apport for bug 972933 regarding /tmp free space
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 972933 in apport (Ubuntu) "package initramfs-tools 0.99ubuntu12 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/972933
<bdmurray> wrote some code comparing the package to team mapping data to packages we are subscribed to
<bdmurray> created a bug bot function for commenting on no package confirmed bug reports
<bdmurray> merged evfool's bug patterns
<bdmurray> tried to recreate bug 918701 regarding ubiquity and orca
<bdmurray> tried to recreate bug 500175
<bdmurray> tested and fixed issues with collect-bug-data's caching of bug tasks
<bdmurray> merged arsenal branch from chris arges
<bdmurray> uploaded update-manager to oneiric-proposed (some changes in propsoed were lost due to a security upload)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 918701 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity crash if screen reader is running" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/918701
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 500175 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "Canceling an installation in Software Center crashes debconf with "Use of uninitialized value $reply in scalar chomp at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/FrontEnd/Passthrough.pm line 66,"" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/500175
<bdmurray> tried to debug a failing update-manager test
<bdmurray> holiday on the 6th
<bdmurray> doneâ½
<cjwatson> Short week due to Easter holidays.
<cjwatson> Basic installation-guide update.
<cjwatson> Reviewed/applied Andy's vt.handoff=7 tweak to grub2.
<cjwatson> Fixed LP bug preventing publications from -proposed pre-release.
<cjwatson> Gained direct LP landing privileges (though still subject to review, of course).
<cjwatson> Some more multiarch cross-building fixes.
<cjwatson> Fixed proxy handling bug 977812 in update-notifier.
<cjwatson> Fixed some autopkgtest bugs in ubiquity.  Almost there.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977812 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Precise) "package downloader doesn't follow redirects" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977812
<cjwatson> Merged openssl for a VPAES fix.
<cjwatson> Lots of installer translation updates.
<cjwatson> Fixed EFI System Partition autodetection on GPT (bug 972122).
<cjwatson> ..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 972122 in partman-efi (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity pops out a warning message from partman-partitioning on UEFI BIOS when there is a EFI system partition existed." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/972122
<stgraber> Very short week, was off on Friday and Monday
<stgraber> - Installer
<stgraber>  - Fixed bug 772470 and added support for Windows 8
<stgraber> - ISO tracker
<stgraber>  - Finished python module, wrote basic API doc/example
<stgraber>  - New bugfix release of ISO tracker now in production
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 772470 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "os-prober doesn't detect Windows partition but the recovery partition instead" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/772470
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - Minor LXC fixes
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber>  - Uploaded fix for isc-dhcp bug 974284
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974284 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu) "invoking dhclient3 with -1 causes issue if no dhcp server available" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974284
<stgraber> - Gstreamer
<stgraber>  - Fixed bug 964926
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 964926 in cheese (Ubuntu) "Cheese can't find vp8enc" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/964926
<stgraber>  - Working on bug 966294, bisecting gstreamer to figure out what broke it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966294 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubiquity loops forever from ubiquity_webcam_play" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966294
<stgraber> - TODO this week (today/tomorrow)
<stgraber>  - Hopefully find the source of bug 966294 and fix it
<stgraber>  - Look at bug 873468
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 873468 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "Update to latest Release failed for overloaded mirrors with no descriptive error message" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873468
<stgraber>  - Spend any remaining time on installer bugs.
<stgraber> I'll be off Friday, Monday and Tuesday, back on Wednesday.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<doko> - short week (two bank holidays)
<doko> - final python 2.7.3 upload
<doko> - icedtea-web fixes and upload, and bug triage
<doko> - openjdk-6 update (currently in unapproved)
<doko> - openjdk-7 update with the ARM assembler interpreter (built)
<doko> - buildd watching, armhf will the first arch to finish the test rebuild
<doko> (done)
<barry> short week due to vacation last week; upstream python 2.6.8 final release; python 3 transition blueprint work, almost done with first pass through http://tinyurl.com/73tl8ca but please don't edit it yet!  i'll look again at bug 848915.  done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 848915 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "Partial upgrade results in cryptic traceback because $DISPLAY is not set" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848915
<doko> ohh, and started on a Linaro gcc merge
<ev> - Short week; holiday on Friday and Monday.
<ev> - Work on implementing Matthew's mockup of the crash database statistics site
<ev>   (to become http://daisy-stats.ubuntu.com):
<ev>   - http://people.canonical.com/~evand/tmp/error-reports.jpg
<ev>   - http://people.canonical.com/~evand/tmp/most-common-problems.png (ignore
<ev>     the first seen field - that's now a version number).
<ev>   - Filed RT 51954.
<ev>   - Built on top of Django, as this will be far more involved than the WSGI
<ev>     services that handle crash and core file submission.
<ev>   - Build out a set of Cassandra functions to retrieve needed information. To
<ev>     be folded back into oops-repository soon.
<ev>   - Create a 'most common problems' page based on Matthew's design.
<ev>     - Use AJAX to get bug numbers for listed crashes.
<ev>     - Use YUI3's datatable to provide sorting of columns and cell formatting.
<ev>     - Use the logarithmic scaling from d3.js to help craft the frequency
<ev>       chart.
<ev> - Cowboyed fixes for retracing onto production with help from the webops team.
<ev> - Organized going over to Acunu's offices this Friday to chat about their
<ev>   analytics platform.
<ev> - Tackled the problem of slow retraces in production (bug 973494). We're
<ev>   currently only pushing through about 3 retraces per minute, which is
<ev>   definitely not going to scale to meet our needs.
<ev>   - Part of this was dumping the large core dump during apport-retrace, rather
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 973494 in whoopsie-daisy (Ubuntu) "Retracing is way too slow" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/973494
<ev>     than persisting it to disk again and carrying it into memory.
<ev>   - Another part was not building a new apt.Cache and calling update() on it
<ev>     every time we ran install_packages:
<ev>     https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/973494/+merge/101353
<ev>   - Finally, massive improvements were gained by adding a persistent sandbox
<ev>     for the unpacked debs:
<ev>     https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/cache_extracted_debs/+merge/101400
<ev>   - We've since discovered that this last patch will break on packages that
<ev>     use breaks/replaces to provide an alternative version of a binary, such as
<ev>     libjpeg-turbo or apache2-mpm (the last installed package always wins).
<ev>     
<ev>     I'm working on a fix that removes any packages that are in breaks/replaces
<ev>     from the download cache. This will also need to handle virtual packages as
<ev>     well.
<ev>   - Fixed cleaning up of old .upload and .uploaded files with help from Marc.
<ev>   - Shopped around Matthew's mock up to a few engineers. Trying to do this in
<ev>     small groups so I don't get absolutely buried in feedback. I'll hopefully
<ev>     send it to private-platfound@ before the end of the day.
<ev>   - Disabled Wubi from the Windows autorun page.
<ev>   - Fixed the autorun page not showing because Windows silently fails when a
<ev>     --option is present in autorun.inf. Yay!
<ev> - Patching activity-log-manager's privacy page to run initctl start/stop
<ev>   whoopsie when enabling/disabling crash reporting, pointing the dbus service
<ev>   configuration at the right path, and providing a parameter on the end of the
<ev>   privacy policy (so that we can update that, if need be).
 * ev breathes (done)
<ogra_> you really expect us to read all that ?
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * merged compiz GLES patch as well as compiz-plugins-main GLES patch
<ogra_> * wasted hours on getting the above right in the bzr branches (compiz has 77
<ogra_>   branches, none but the UDD one carries upstream and packaging in the same
<ogra_>   branch, updating to a new upstream (as happened today) means to shuffle
<ogra_>   together branches and bits manually to get a proper diff (yes, i'm a whiner))
<ogra_> * uploaded fixed version of the pvr driver which is in multiverse now
<ogra_>   (should we consider using restricted for it ?)
<ev> you damn well better! I wrote it all :-P
<ogra_> * jockey support for the OMAP4 pvr driver is in the archive now as well
<ogra_> * sadly the branch mess ate a lot of my time so that i have to postpone
<ogra_>   finishing of partman-uboot to next week
<ogra_> * vacation days here on the 6th and 9th so it was a pretty short week
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_> * finish peer reviews
<ogra_> * finish partman-uboot
<ogra_> * finish ubuntu-core wikipage rewrite
<ogra_> * look into fsck slowdown
<ogra_> UDS:
<ogra_> * have a spec about adding subarch support properly to dh_quilt_patch/unpatch
<ogra_> (done)
<cjwatson> subarch / dh_quilt_*> I think that would be better discussed in a bug report against Debian quilt
<cjwatson> that way you're talking with somebody who's actually worked on the code before
<ogra_> cjwatson, sure, that should definitely be coordinated work
<ogra_> currently you have to hack around in debian/rules with overrides ... i would like to get rid of that
<infinity> ogra_: I don't see it as a spec discussion at all.
<cjwatson> well, I mean unless Raphael's there I don't think it's even worth discussing it at UDS, because we'll just all be sitting around making stuff up :)
<ogra_> ah, k
<cjwatson> the implementation's confined to one package, so it'd be better just as a bug report
<ogra_> then lets call it a bug :)
<infinity> ogra_: It's a flat out wishlist bug to JFDI, I see no downsides, and hence no need to bikeshed for an hour.
<ogra_> yeah, right you are
<slangasek> bdmurray: was 972933 the cause for the spike in initramfs-tools reports, then?
<slangasek> doko: Linaro gcc merge> targeted for q, I hope?
<doko> slangasek, yeah, and preparing one for -proposed to fix two ICEs
<slangasek> doko: ok
<bdmurray> slangasek: no there was only one where /tmp was full, some of the others are where /cdrom is full on a persistent media.  I'll have a change for apport to stop reporting those this week
<infinity> doko: I may need to take your -proposed one and mangle it for -release if we have a 0-hour armhf ld.so change.  I don't want to ship a compiler that generates the wrong PI headers.
<slangasek> bdmurray: ok.  that doesn't seem like something that's changed recently to cause a bug reporting spike, though?
<bdmurray> slangasek: right, I think the spike was just due to more people using precise with beta 2 being out
<doko> infinity, sure, if you get the rm approval, you know I'm not that trust worthy ;)
<infinity> I happen to know a few RMs.
<slangasek>  * swatted the last obsolete conffiles in the core; after eglibc gets uploaded, server should have a clean bill of health from jenkins
<slangasek>  * followed through on
<slangasek>  * fixed plymouth to switch back to vt1 when it exits, instead of leaving server users on VT7 (bug #913731)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 913731 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "non-X installs still have vt.handoff=7" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/913731
<slangasek>  * follow through on the new update-notifier interface, cleaning up a few small bugs that have been reported (bug #977178, #975426)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977178 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "After upgrading to 12.04, flash doesn't seem to be installed to Firefox even though the package is." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977178
<slangasek>  * fix an upgrade issue with nfs-utils (bug #954619)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 975426 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "flashplugin-installer failed to install during system installation: no alternatives for mozilla-flashplugin." [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975426
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 954619 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu) "package nfs-common 1:1.2.5-3ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/954619
<slangasek>  * improved cross-build support in apt, and made the libs multiarch-capable again
<slangasek>  * Upcoming: cross-distro call to try to finalize an armhf linker path
<slangasek> ogra_: multiverse> I could've sworn I put pvr-omap4 to restricted... but the binaries went elsewhere.  Let me fix that.
<ogra_> thx
<infinity> The number of times I've used "finalize" in relation to that topic...
<cjwatson> slangasek: the apt cross bug where it fails to resolve [] limitations with respect to the correct architecture is still outstanding, isn't it?
<slangasek> cjwatson: yes, it is
<cjwatson> right
<jodh> slangasek: done?
<slangasek> jodh: yes, sorry
<jodh> * [misc]:
<jodh>   - Off Friday+Monday due to Easter.
<jodh>   - In London tomorrow.
<jodh> * [boot]:
<jodh>   - upstart: Fixed bug 974147.
<jodh>   - plymouth: working on bug 553745.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974147 in upstart (Ubuntu) "/lib/init/upstart-job should not start/restart a job which is disabled." [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974147
<jodh> * [planning]:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553745 in plymouth (Ubuntu Maverick) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553745
<jodh>   - uds: Wrote blueprint
<jodh>     https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-dpkg-pristine-conffiles
<jodh>   - upstart:
<jodh>     - exploring service readiness problem.
<jodh>     - discussions and investigations on session management + multiseat.
<jodh> â
<jodh>  
<slangasek> any other questions?
<ev> jodh: you're coming to Millbank tomorrow?
<jodh> ev: yo!
<slangasek> speaking of blueprints... UDS is less than a month away now.  As you think of things that we should be discussing for next cycle, get blueprints created and targeted to uds-q
<ev> jodh: wor
<ev> word
<slangasek> jodh: thanks for tweaking the restart behavior for 974147; I'll pick that back up again for merge review today
<jodh> slangasek: np - thanks!
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> ideally - none :)
<slangasek> but there's always something...
<bdmurray> I was thinking of bug 942539 and was wondering if we should implement a hack for that
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942539 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity desktop icon text looks messy" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942539
<cjwatson> I'm working on bug 941676, albeit in spare time as it's powerpc
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 941676 in ppl (Ubuntu Precise) "ppl ftbfs in precise on powerpc" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/941676
<cjwatson> the hacks for that aren't translation-safe, AFAIK
<barry> slangasek: i just set you as approver of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-python-versions
<slangasek> cjwatson: could we not batch-update the translations when making the change?
<cjwatson> can't we sit on the desktop team to get that fixed properly? :)
<slangasek> barry: ack
<cjwatson> slangasek: I mean intrinsically unsafe since we need to determine experimentally how each individual translation wraps, including for each different flavour
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> bdmurray: can you revisit that with seb128?
<bdmurray> sure
<cjwatson> the only hack we could do that I think is safe would be to remove the version altogether
<slangasek> and if he's not going to have time (which is likely), maybe ask pitti if someone else on the team can take it
<cjwatson> but UI freeze ...
<slangasek> cjwatson: well, my assumption had been that if we replace the period with one nautilus handles word breaks for correctly, we could do that in both the English and in translations
<cjwatson> oh, well that one is substituted dynamically anyway
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> so wouldn't that be translation-safe after all?
<slangasek> the bug is simply that nautilus is word-breaking wrong on '.'; we don't really want to micromanage the word-wrapping in general
<cjwatson> yeah, that hack probably would be.  Is there a Unicode character with identical appearance to "." which isn't actually U+002E?
<cjwatson> I was referring to things like the \n hack
<slangasek> ah yes
<slangasek> jodh suggested middle-dot, which isn't perfect
<slangasek> we could render the whole version number in double-width chars :P
<slangasek> well, getting nautilus fixed is obviously still preferred
<cjwatson> I really think it should be identical in appearance
<slangasek> yep
<cjwatson> at least in the default font
<slangasek> I'll take a sweep through Unicode; but we should try to just get nautilus fixed
<slangasek> oh here we go, U+2493 :P
<bdmurray> heh
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?
<phillw> cjwatson: is http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/ff0e/index.htm any use?
<bdmurray> bug 838091
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 838091 in ntfs-3g (Ubuntu Precise) "should link fsck.ntfs -> ntfsfix/ntfsck" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838091
<cjwatson> there's U+FE52, which seems to have some odd width properties
<cjwatson> phillw: fullwidth is problematic
<jodh> I like the idea of putting the ubuntu logo glyph (U+E0FF) in the middle :)
<jodh> a tad big, but memorable! :)
<slangasek> anyone know how safe ntfsfix is? :P
<slangasek> bug log says it's not really
<cjwatson> I'm not sure, but I guess I can look at that bug
<cjwatson> a link may not be the right approach; we may just need to silence the warning some other way
<slangasek> so I think linking fsck.ntfs is probably the wrong answer
<slangasek> mountall honors the 'check' field in /etc/fstab, right?
<slangasek> er, the 'pass' field I mean
<cjwatson> I thought we zeroed that for ntfs, but I'll need to check
<slangasek> ok
<bdmurray> ntfs-3g was updated in precise - bug 920545
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 920545 in ntfs-3g (Ubuntu) "[update request] NTFS-3G, new STABLE Version 2012.1.15 [Precise]" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/920545
<cjwatson> yes, that was a fairly routine merge
<cjwatson> it didn't add a fsck.ntfs link
<slangasek> or an implementation that would be worth linking to, presumably
<cjwatson> I'm not comfortable enough with my NTFS knowledge to make that decision independently of the Debian maintainer
<cjwatson> for precise, I'd rather just shut up the warning
<cjwatson> we seem to set pass=0 for ntfs, so I guess I can look into it some more
<slangasek> cjwatson: mountall respects the pass field
<cjwatson> it mightn't be unreasonable to special-case ntfs in mountall, so that even if pass is non-zero it won't complain if fsck.* is missing
<slangasek> so that points to the installer
<slangasek> or to user error when adding the fstab entry
<cjwatson> partman-basicfilesystems (63ubuntu2) karmic; urgency=low
<cjwatson>   * Don't check NTFS at boot, since we have no fsck.ntfs right now
<cjwatson>     (LP: #441242).
<cjwatson>  -- Colin Watson <cjwatson@ubuntu.com>  Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:44:55 +0100
<slangasek> hmm
<cjwatson> we have no upgrade handling for that
<slangasek> tjaalton also reported that this didn't happen in 11.04, strangely
<cjwatson> and I'd be more comfortable with a mountall hack than trying to rewrite fstab on upgrade
<slangasek> fair enough
<cjwatson> maybe something in the mountall stack got stricter
<cjwatson> I'm happy to look into this; assigned the bug to myself
<bdmurray> okay, thanks
<bdmurray> Does anybody, mvo, know if the apt tasks in bug 659438 are necessary?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 659438 in apt (Ubuntu) "Installation/Removal fails because of package which could not be located (failure in apt.Cache.required_download)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659438
<bdmurray> it's our hottest bug and the aptdaemon task was recently fixed so it'd be nice to get it off the list
 * mvo looks
<mvo> bdmurray: I can't mark it invalid myself, apt times out, but I do believe that the aptdaemon fix is sufficient
<bdmurray> mvo: okay, I can take care of closing it then
<slangasek> \o/
<slangasek> mvo: while you're here... bug #938116 is assigned to you
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 938116 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "update-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in DescriptionList()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938116
<slangasek> mvo: seb128 did it, not me ;)  Are you going to get to that bug for 12.04, or should we have someone else take a look?
<mvo> hm, I have a vague idea what might be causing this, but it requires some serious effort to look deeper, one simple workaround would be to always refresh the cache when software-properties was run and returns a exit-state that indicates that something changes
<cjwatson> oh, hey, looking at bug 441242 I see that mvo added support to update-manager to convert people's fstabs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 441242 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity generates bad fstab with NTFS partitions" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/441242
<cjwatson> so apparently some deeper issue here
<mvo> I did? excellent!
<mvo> maybe there is a bug in that code then? (also it looks like it has a proper test)
<cjwatson> I suspect it's something entirely different
<cjwatson> will need to reproduce or something
<slangasek> bdmurray: any other bugs?
<bdmurray> slangasek: not today
<slangasek> mvo: can you stash that workaround suggestion on the bug, and we can run with it?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Patch Piloting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Patch Piloting
<slangasek> so our hit rate of patch piloting was much better for March than for February
<slangasek> but not perfect :-P
 * ogra_ is up tomorrow ...
 * barry is up next tuesday
<slangasek> so dholbach is threatening to withhold alcohol from me at UDS if we don't shape up
<ogra_> lol
 * ogra_ would like to see him manage that 
<slangasek> if something comes up that you can't do your scheduled day, you can always reschedule.. but please reschedule, don't just let it pass
<barry> slangasek: should we fear sober managers?
<infinity> I'm piloting today...
<slangasek> barry: I would!
<barry> :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
 * dholbach hugs slangasek
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 11 16:00:02 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-15.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-15.01.html
<slangasek> thanks all!
<stgraber> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<ogra_> thanks !
<cesilko> Hello, is anyone listening here?
<Mkays|> Is there some kind of pre meeting again? :-)
<cesilko> I don't know. I just wanted to find out if all these ~200 people here actually listen and what their motivation for being here is.
<Mkays|> There will be meeting in half our
<Mkays|> *hour
<tumbleweed> cesilko: this is where Ubuntu teams have meetings
<tumbleweed> so many people involved in Ubuntu development hang out here, rather than coming and going
<tumbleweed> (also, we occasionally follow meetings we are interested in)
<Mkays|> The next seems to be Lubuntu team meeting at 20:00 utc
<cesilko> OK, thanks for your explanation guys. FYI, I am from NetBeans team looking for an inspiration. I apologize for disturbing.
<Mkays|> You did not distrub  anything :-)
<Unit193> You are sooo late, I've been here so long...
<wxl> w/e
<bioterror> Unit193, sorry, I'm half zombie
<Unit193> (I joined 2 minutes before. :P )
<wxl> pffht
<gilir> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 11 20:03:06 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<gilir> hi :)
<StephenSmally> hi!
<kanliot> o/
<wxl> \@/
<gilir> Agenda is here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
<Unit193> wxl: Your face is messed up.
<Unit193> \ \o
<wxl> Unit193: no, that's my new hairstyle ;)
<gilir> some people are missing this week :)
<gilir> #topic gilir - Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  gilir - Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
<gilir> phillw updated the wiki page about the uptades
<jmarsden|work> o/
<gilir> MrChrisDruif is missing, I will re-add the ACTION item
<gilir> #action MrChrisDruif to discover how to do offline documentation easily
<meetingology> ACTION: MrChrisDruif to discover how to do offline documentation easily
<gilir> #topic kanliot - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  kanliot - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
<wxl> mrman = frakken or whatever?
<kanliot> hi
<wxl> oops
<kanliot> ubuntu team has aked us to work on the iso testing tracker
<kanliot> and test the daily build tomorrow on regression tests
<kanliot> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<kanliot> also phillw just mentioned that there might be a problem completeing all the ppc tests on time
<kanliot> end of report
<gilir> thanks kanliot, let me know if there is any big problems when testing the lubuntu ISOs
<kanliot> yes
<gilir> #topic Unit193 - Weekly report - Update from IRC OP's team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Unit193 - Weekly report - Update from IRC OP's team
<Unit193> Had one person/problem that thought the only way to get help was to insult the channel. No training events that I know either.
<Unit193> wxl handled that since he was there, did well.
<gilir> nice :-/
<kanliot> i was there and handled it poorly
<kanliot> ;)
<Myrtti> I tried my best
<gilir> well it's over, let's think about other stuff :)
<gilir> thanks Unit193 :) I'll switch to the next topic if there is no question
<Unit193> Think that's it, unless someone else has more.
<gilir> #topic kanliot - Weekly report - Update from Comms team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  kanliot - Weekly report - Update from Comms team
<kanliot> hi
<kanliot> for next week i'll try and get another update from mario on progress from osuosl
<kanliot> end of report
<gilir> thanks kanliot
<gilir> #topic gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
<gilir> a couple a small fixes last week
<gilir> there is still one fix for 3G modem that I need to prepare
<gilir> after that, it should be quiet until the release I hope ("just" testing)
<gilir> any questions ?
<gilir> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Any Other Business
<micahg> o/
<gilir> anything to add ?
<micahg> yes :)
<gilir> micahg, yes ? :)
<micahg> I had a lubuntu packageset created to allow for easier tracking of build failures that affect lubuntu
<gilir> micahg, ah, yes that could be nice :)
<micahg> at the moment it doesn't grant upload rights, but the DMB would welcome applications from people involved in maintaining these packages
<gilir> micahg, what did you included in it ?
<micahg> gilir: it's auto-generated from the seeds, so should include any universe packages in lubuntu
<micahg> http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/precise/lubuntu
<gilir> micahg, thanks :)
<micahg> you're welcome, I'm looking forward to reviewing DMB applications in due time from lubuntu people :)
<micahg> err..applications for upload rights :)
<gilir> I hope there will have some in the future :)
<kanliot> what's a dmb
<kanliot> ?
<micahg> Developer Membership Board
<kanliot> thx
<gilir> kanliot, I'll prepare a mail about this, to explain with more details
<gilir> it should be a source of motivation :)
<gilir> anything to add before the end of the meeting ?
<gilir> ok, thanks everyone :)
<gilir> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 11 20:28:35 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-20.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-20.03.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-13
 * skaet waves
 * scott-work waves back
<tumbleweed> hi
<skaet> #startmeeting
 * ScottK is here for Kubuntu - jr is out.
<skaet> hmm... why isn't the meeting starting....
<roadmr> bot broken?
<skaet> #startmeeting
<ogra_> seems all bots are confused a bit the last days
<skaet> appears so.
 * ogra_ had issues in other channels with the bugbots
<skaet> [TOPIC] Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> Please remember to .. when you're done, and o/ if you want us to pause and ask questions. :)
<skaet> Agenda can be found:
<skaet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-04-13
<skaet> Individual team status links will be added to it from:
<tumbleweed> bot missing
<skaet> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/thread.html
<skaet> .
<skaet> We've now passed Final Freeze, and the archive is frozen.    Changes to the unseeded universe can continue to go in, but changes to seeded packages will need to be release critical at this point before they'll be accepted.
<skaet> #ubuntu-release if questions, please.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Schedule is at:
<skaet>  #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<skaet> Key Upcoming Dates:
<skaet> â¢ 2012/04/13 - LanguagePackTestRebuild
<skaet> â¢ 2012/04/17 - LanguagePackTranslationDeadline
<skaet> â¢ 2012/04/19 - Release Candidate Images start
<skaet> â¢ 2012/04/24 - Unseeded Universe Final Freeze at 1200 UTC
<skaet> â¢ 2012/04/26 - Release
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs committed to be fixed by the engineering teams can be found:
<skaet> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
<skaet> Bugs that you would like the engineering teams to consider for fixing, should be assigned to specific teams, so they can be found.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Individual Team Statuses Received by 1500 UTC:
<skaet> Hardware Certification - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001130.html- brendand
 * stgraber waves
<skaet> Quality Assurance -  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001132.html - jibel
<skaet> Security team  - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001120.html - jdstrand
<skaet> Kernel team -  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001119.html- ogasawara
<skaet> Foundations - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001134.html-  cjwatson
<skaet> Server - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001136.html -arosales
<skaet> Linaro - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001126.html  - fabo
<skaet> Ubuntu One - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001122.html -  joshuahoover
<skaet> Desktop Team - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001124.html - pitti
<skaet> Unity Framework Team -  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001125.html - dbarth
<skaet> Unity Services and Settings -  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001129.html- Cimi
<skaet> Kubuntu - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001133.html -  Riddell
<skaet> Edubuntu - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001123.html- stgraber or highvoltage
<skaet> Xubuntu -  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001128.html - astraljava
<skaet> Ubuntu Studio -  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001135.html- scott-work
<skaet> Lubuntu - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001127.html - gilir
<skaet> Mythbuntu -  - superm1
<skaet> .
<skaet> hi all,   I figure we'll just  carry on without the bot,  and use the IRC logs for this one.
 * arosales apologies for the late submission for server
<arosales> ..
<skaet> Thanks to all who had their status in last night.   There were lots of late adittions,  so if something is mentioned that is in your status,  please be patient.  :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Comments, Question and Answer Session
<skaet> .
<skaet> Teams are encouraged to start testing in earnest now.  We have this upcoming week to find and fix the release critical bugs.
<cjwatson> yes, sorry, I was travelling last night
<skaet> cjwatson, lots of meat in your, just didn't digest it all yet.  :)
<pitti> FTR, we are this -> <- close to finishing unity 5.10, should be in precise in an hour or two
<skaet> anyhow,   please,  please,  please... start testing the images emerging.   We need to find any blockers ASAP.
<skaet> gilir,  is Bug:967348 a blocker for release for your team?  couldn't quite tell from your description in the weekly.
<stgraber> bug 967348
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967348 in lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "obconf is in the seed, but not in the ISO" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967348
<gilir> skaet, not a blocker for the release, could be deal with an SRU
<cjwatson> last I looked it wasn't actually still happening
<skaet> thanks gilir.   noted.  :)
<cjwatson> but I hadn't had time to do the archaeology to determine why it happened at some point in the past
<gilir> I will check with the last ISO
<gilir> cjwatson, I can probably workaround it by adding depends instead of recommends
<jbicha> good morning
<skaet> ..
<skaet> ogra_, infinity, fabo - From fabo's status,  OpenGL ES2.0 for ARM - will we be trying for this as SRU or still trying to squeeze this in for ARM?
<skaet> or for 10.04.1?
<skaet> heh,  12.04.1
<skaet> rather
<ogra_> skaet, its all done
<cjwatson> gilir: not entirely sure you should need to, although you guys sure do have schizophrenia about recommends :)
<skaet> ogra_, done as in,  in and working,  or .... ?
<skaet> :)
<ogra_> in and building
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> (and "more" working than before for sure ... )
<skaet> ogra_  ok,  so still bugs may emerge and will be area of churn next week.   Lots of testing requested here,  yes?
<ogra_> sure, but what we have now, even if it would be buggy is more than nothing
<ogra_> which we had before
 * skaet nods
<ogra_> (nothing meaning unity immediately segfaulting)
<skaet> ..
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> Late landings requested:  Desktop:Gnome 3.4.1 tarballs(4/16), Edubuntu:ldm, Server:MaaS, OpenStack, Quantum anything else?
<pitti> langpacks, FTR
<pitti> and apport/kerneloops for disabling for release
<pitti> note this time we won't disable apport completely, just disable crashh reports to LP
<pitti> we'll keep crash reports to whoopsie
<skaet> langpacks are scheduled for 4/17  (see backscroll). :)   Will add apport/kerneloops to plan - thanks.
<skaet> arosales, Daviey - have I caught the key server ones?  or more looming?
<skaet> ScottK, any last ones from Kubuntu?
<arosales> skaet: there ~may~ be a late CEPH landing, but that is still under review.
<arosales> ..
<skaet> noted arosales,  thanks.
<cjwatson> we have at least one more ubiquity upload, for bug 922949
<ScottK> skaet: No. The plymouth upload I mentioned in the mail is in queue now.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 922949 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "installation process can crash due to an issue with one package when choosing "install updates" as part of the install" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922949
<cjwatson> that'll be today
<ScottK> There is potential for Active related surprises, but they would be surprises.
<ScottK> ..
<cjwatson> possibly update-manager changes as well
<skaet> thanks ScottK, cjwatson, pitti.    will add that data to the list.
<stgraber> for ldm, I've been told by the debian maintainer that he'll upload in a few hours, so I'm hoping to have the sync in the queue later today (can take a while before a debian upload is syncable though)
 * mvo would like to get some software-center fixes in if possible, if not I will start using precise-proposed now
<cjwatson> you can use precise-proposed anyway, and we can sync to release if there's time
 * highvoltage is doing some Edubuntu/LTSP testing today and have a few bugs to file, nothing too serious though
<skaet> thanks mvo,  highvoltage.
<stgraber> highvoltage: for that installer checkbox theme, can you check if it also happens in regular (non-ubiquity) apps? (thinking of edubuntu-menueditor as a good example of a similar layout)
<stgraber> highvoltage: if it's ubiquity-only, I should be able to do a css override to make them look right
<stgraber> (the issue I'm referring to here is visible in
<stgraber> http://irc.jonathancarter.org/files/temp/installer-tickmarks.png)
<highvoltage> stgraber: yes, I'll try it out
<skaet> ok,  will move on,  if others think of things,  please add to discussion before end of meeting.   All data is useful right now so we can navigate this upcoming week with as few bumps as possible.
<skaet> ..
<stgraber> (basically checkboxes in the installer look like they're inactive/grayed out when they aren't, that's minor but should be easy to override in ubiquity's css override)
<stgraber> ..
<ScottK> I think archive skew is our biggest near term problem.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> ScottK,  arm & powerpc?   -things going into -proposed not helping?
<skaet> can you elaborate
<cjwatson> looks like it should catch up over the weekend
<ScottK> Putting stuff in proposed helps at any given instant, but to get to final we still need them all built.
<ScottK> cjwatson: Agreed.
 * skaet nods
<cjwatson> though much though I'm sure it's fun to beat on minority architectures, i386 is currently furthest behind :-P
<ScottK> Part of that's the rebuild though
<cjwatson> true
<ScottK> We're up at or new half a week since a Universe package got built on powerpc (as an example)
<cjwatson> still working on getting that extra powerpc buildd, apparently sulfur is now ready for installation as a livefs buildd
<ScottK> Arm was similar until today.
<ScottK> Cool.
<pitti> cjwatson: we got new delta langpacks today, before i386 was fine, FTR
<cjwatson> also I suspect the ppl build fix single-handedly set powerpc back quite a bit
<ScottK> This was part of the genesis of my suggestion about prioritizing builds differently (watching this week)
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> ScottK,  I appear to have missed it in the backscrolls,  can you point me to the right location from the IRC backscrolls after the meeting, so I can catch up,  its definitely worth discussing in #ubuntu-release later.
<skaet> ..
<cjwatson> skaet: the prioritisation suggestion was on ubuntu-devel (e-mail)
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> thanks cjwatson,  ok,  hadn't gotten to that email list yet this morning.   will follow up there.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> Cimi,  are the bugs listed in your summary ones that are in now,  or target for this next week and SRUs?
<skaet>    Which are the ones that must go in (true Release Critical)?
<Cimi> skaet, current week, utouch SRU
<Cimi> skaet, all indicator bugs landed in the releases
<Cimi> skaet, utouch will be proposed as SRUs
<skaet> Cimi,  anything release critical between now and next Thursday?
<Cimi> skaet, no, all fine
<skaet> Cimi,  thanks.  :D  glad to hear.
<Cimi> yw
<skaet> ..
<skaet> General question to each of the teams:  are there any known bugs that are NOT SRU-able, and have not been mentioned in the discussion already,  that MUST be fixed before release (ie. release critical) that are NOT on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html?
<cjwatson> bug 980772 needs investigation from us
<jdstrand> none from the security team
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 980772 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Various files and directories created with odd permissions on precise" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/980772
<jibel> bug 979350 worries me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 979350 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "install with encrypted home failed near the end: OSError: [Errno 12] Cannot allocate memory" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/979350
<cjwatson> mm, I wondered if that was a webkit bug
<jdstrand> cjwatson: this one is interesting too: bug 980835
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 980835 in util-linux (Ubuntu) "tty[1-6] is now root:tty 0660 instead of root:root 0600" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/980835
<cjwatson> jdstrand: I saw your discussion about that on #ubuntu-devel and was inclined to agree with what appeared to be consensus that it wasn't a real problem in practice
<jdstrand> probably sru-able, but I'll let others decide
<jdstrand> cjwatson: did you see my further comments in the bug?
<cjwatson> jibel: I do most of my testing in 512MB VMs and haven't noticed that kind of slideshow memory use
<cjwatson> jdstrand: no, I've been too busy
<jdstrand> cjwatson: we are providing looser permissions than the udev default of 0620
<jdstrand> and I can't see why it is justified
<jdstrand> anyhoo, that can be looked at later
<cjwatson> I'm not opposed to 0620 but maybe infinity can look into that, since he was already active in the discussion
<cjwatson> (basically 'mesg y' vs. 'mesg n')
<jdstrand> I'm fine with someone saying "Won't Fix" we want this change. it just seemed odd to override udev without a reason
<skaet> thanks cjwatson, jibel, jdstrand.
<skaet> ogasawara - have noted the ones you want to include if there's a good reason from your email.
<skaet> pitti,  anything beyond what's already mentioned/in your email?
<skaet> ogra_, anything release critical known at this point, or wait for testing mode right now?
<pitti> skaet: not from my side; I'm not currently aware of desktop-ish RC bugs that can't be SRU, with maybe the exception of bug 942539
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942539 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity desktop icon text looks messy" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942539
<ogasawara> skaet: ack.  they're not release critical, but would be nice to have if we are forced to upload for a release critical issue.
<pitti> ^ this has a workaround by adding some \n, but it's a bit messy
<ogra_> skaet, testing all the way
<pitti> I can try and look into nautilus for that, but not before Monday
<ogra_> eventhing unity GLES releated has to be SRU now
<cjwatson> pitti: adding some \n is an unacceptable workaround - not sustainable with translations
<ogra_> important was that we get the infrastructure into the packages and that the patches dont make them FTBFS
<pitti> yes, that's what I mentioned in the bug
<cjwatson> so IMO that's not "has a workaround" :-)
<skaet> thanks ogasawara, pitti, ogra_
<skaet> Daviey, arosales - any release critical bugs known at this point,  that can't be SRU'd or are we waiting the results of testing.
<skaet> ?
<arosales> skaet: we have a few moving targets with MAAS, but it looks like we have the bits in we need. Couple of new bugs this week we are looking at. Nothing at the moment that we already haven't mentioned that needs to go in without an SRU
<arosales> ..
<skaet> thanks arosales.
<skaet> dbarth,  how about your team's perspective?   nothing known other than what we find pending testing of the newest drop at this point?
 * skaet had gotten Cimi's imput earlier.  :)
<didrocks> skaet: nothing really worrying, we hope to be able to land fixes for bug #979770
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 979770 in compizconfig-backend-gconf (Ubuntu) "[regression] Precise: GNOME Classic starts without any compiz plugins loaded for Guest and new users" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/979770
<didrocks> (this one has a fix and it's confirmed already)
<didrocks> and bug #978401 which is a long bamf standing bug
<skaet> thanks didrocks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 978401 in unity (Ubuntu Precise) "Missing Application Instance In Unity Launcher" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/978401
<didrocks> apart from that, there is no known worrying crashers for the past week on the tested version
<skaet> ..?
<didrocks> that's it for me ;)
<skaet> thanks didrocks.  :)
<didrocks> I meant, the current version in proposed is already tested for a week and we didn't get any crashers we didn't fix
<skaet> yup.  and am keeping my fingers crossed too that no surprises show up once its in the daily images.
<skaet> :)
<skaet> ScottK, stgraber, highvoltage, astraljava, scott-work, gilir, superm1 - any release critical bugs on your radar not already mentioned earlier today or in the emails?
<ScottK> Not that I know of.  There was a cluster-glue one, but that's fixed.
<stgraber> nope
<gilir> no
<skaet> thanks ScottK, stgraber, gilir.    I'll follow up with the others we haven't heard from after the meeting.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> Does anyone have other questions to bring up?
<scott-work> skaet: not release critical bugs of which i am aware
<skaet> thanks scott-work
<skaet> Ok,  before we end the meeting,  just wanted to say thank you to all the teams for the excellent work that's been going on over the last week and the bug fixes that have been coming in.    Please keep up the testing.    This release is shaping up well to be something we can all be very proud of!
<arosales> +1
<pitti> +1, too!
<ogra_> ++
<skaet> Next week will be last weekly meeting until we resume for q-series after UDS.
<skaet> Thanks for your participation, brendand, jibel, jdstrand, cjwatson, ogra_, pitti,  arosales,  fabo, Cimi, ScottK, gilir, jbicha, ogasawara,  scott-work, didrocks.
<skaet> #endmeeting
<pitti> thanks skaet
<pitti> have a nice weekend everyone!
<ogra_> thanks skaet !
<arosales> thanks for chairing skaet
<jibel> thanks skaet
<didrocks> thanks skaet ;)
<Cimi> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks
<roadmr> skaet, thanks! heh
<skaet> sorry roadmr,  my oops on that.
<skaet> thanks for participating.  :)
<scott-work> skaet: i noticed that our development (i.e. bug fixes) became rather frantic towards to the end of hte cycle, indeed, we probably had the most activity during this time
<scott-work> skaet: is this going to be a "normal" or routine occourence?
<jdstrand> skaet: thanks
<scott-work> *occurrence*
<skaet> scott-work,   there's a tension between feature creation and bug fixing, in terms of where the development focus is.
<skaet> what we've been seeing is fairly normal, for a development only release,  less than ideal for an LTS one.
<scott-work> skaet: i should be clearer, my focus was only intended for the ubuntu studio group, not ubuntu as a whole
<scott-work> and i contrast this release against the recent previous releases as we actually had substantial development this cycle
<skaet> scott-work,  :)   ah then,  yes,  pattern is normal when there's been development.
<astraljava> skaet: Sorry I missed the meeting. No critical bugs have surfaced thus far.
<skaet> thanks astraljava.  :)
<bdfhjk> Hello, if someone is waiting here for Ubuntu Algorithm Classes - chat room was changed, now it is on #ubuntu-classroom
<dbarth> skaet: sorry, was in other meetings; yes, nothing else, and what didrocks contributed in the discussion; i proposed him to attend
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-15
<duanedesign> Myrtti: did you get your Ubuntu One issue solved?
<Myrtti> duanedesign: I can't immediately remove having an issue with Ubuntu One in the recent past
<duanedesign> Myrtti: sorry wrong nick :)
<Myrtti> thought so, np
<Myrtti> remember, even
<AlanBell> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Apr 15 10:40:36 2012 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Apr 15 10:40:40 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-15-10.40.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-15-10.40.html
<AlanBell> skaet: sorry about the lack of bot, I didn't notice it hadn't restarted
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-08
<barry> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  8 14:01:15 2013 UTC.  The chair is barry. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<barry> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<tumbleweed> hi
<bdrung> o/
<barry> i know stgraber and ScottK send apologies.  do we have quorum today?
<Laney> ello
<Laney> yeah, seems so
<barry> excellent
<barry> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<barry> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
<barry> Micah to urgently send feedback on Bjorn's PPU application
<barry> do we have any status on this? i think micahg is not here right now
<Laney> he said he hasn't yet done it
<Laney> i think we should give it to someone else ...
<Laney> or otherwise deal with this application
<tumbleweed> bdrung: whould you be able to write it?
<barry> bdrung, i think you'd be the natural next in line for this, since you've been working with him so closely
<tumbleweed> I assume that if someone can get it started, it'd be easy to get some input from micahg. much easier than waiting for him to have time to do it all
<bdrung> hm, i'd rather want someone else write it.
<bdrung> my view has change since i sponsor bjÃ¶rn.
<barry> bdrung: in which direction? ;)
<Laney> another option of course would be to reconsider the application without a meeting
<bdrung> barry: in a good direction.
<Laney> I tend to want to defer to bdrung on this
 * tumbleweed too
<tumbleweed> if after working with him bdrung thinks he's ready, that'll be enough to get my vote
<barry> bdrung: cool.  Laney i agree.  i would be willing to bring up a vote on the dmb list, and if there are no objections, i will first email him and dholbach to let them know we are doing it this way.
<Laney> I'd like to hear some kind of summary on how the recent sponsorship has been
<Laney> if bdrung is up for sending that - doesn't have to be long
<bdrung> I can try to write a sponsoring summary.
<barry> bdrung: that's great, thanks
<tumbleweed> Laney: +1
<barry> #action bdrung to write up a short summary of sweetshark's recent sponsorship
<meetingology> ACTION: bdrung to write up a short summary of sweetshark's recent sponsorship
<dholbach> great, good to hear things are moving in a good direction :)
<barry> #action barry to conduct sweetshark ppu vote on ubuntu-dmb list
<meetingology> ACTION: barry to conduct sweetshark ppu vote on ubuntu-dmb list
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> dholbach: sorry it blocked on the feedback for so long
<barry> dholbach: me too.
<barry> anything else on this topic?
<Laney> seems like a decent direction to me
<tumbleweed> I guess that depends on the contents of bdrung's summary, so not for now, from me
<Laney> someone should let him know what's going on
<tumbleweed> that is what the summary was about...
<barry> Laney: will will do that
<tumbleweed> err feedback
<barry> *i will
<barry> #topic Review any packageset descriptions that have been received (micahg)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review any packageset descriptions that have been received (micahg)
<barry>  
<tumbleweed> no micahg today...
<Laney> this whole initiative went away
<barry> Laney: should i just remove this item from the agenda then?
<Laney> probably for the best
<barry> will do
<Laney> assuming nobody wants to revive it
<tumbleweed> I'm happy with doing it as-needed
<Laney> pinging all of the packageset teams to get clear criteria for alterations
<tumbleweed> "\you want an addition to a packageset, give us a description"
<Laney> indeed
<barry> which brings us to:
<barry> #topic Package Sets
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Package Sets
<barry> we've had a request to add a few things to the zope and schooltool packagesets
<tumbleweed> which reminds me. schooltool and zope don't have great descriptions. but probably good enough
<tumbleweed> I'm +1 on that (as I said in the list) and happy to press the buttons
<Laney> yeah, seems fine. I don't think we need to vote per se
<barry> tumbleweed: no objections from me
<barry> tumbleweed: jfdi :)
<tumbleweed> will do
<bdrung> no objections from me too
<barry> #action tumbleweed to add to zope and schooltool package sets as per menesis request
<meetingology> ACTION: tumbleweed to add to zope and schooltool package sets as per menesis request
<barry> #topic ppu applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ppu applications
<barry> none for today
<barry> #topic motu applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: motu applications
<barry> none for today
<barry> #topic core dev applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: core dev applications
<barry> none for today
<barry> #topic any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: any other business
<barry> there was a doodle poll on possibly changing the early meeting's time.  have any of the dmb folks here not voted?
<Laney> me
<barry> Laney: please do, then we can lobby for results :)
<Laney> seems like 13UTC wins though, which is fine by me
 * Laney clicks zillions of tedious boxes
<barry> micahg is the westmost of us, but only by an hour, so hopefully that will work for him.
<barry> ;)
<barry> does anybody have anything else they'd like to bring up today?
<Laney> there
<Laney> he agreed to that time and the two previous hours too
<Laney> more fool him
<tumbleweed> schooltool + zope done
<Laney> so, the PPU discussion - what's left to do? Read over the log from the previous meeting and the email thread? Is there a proposal?
<Laney> sorry for not having read it yet
<tumbleweed> quickly read it now?
<Laney> the IRC log was hench though :(
<Laney> plus the most involved people aren't here
<tumbleweed> the idea was to get a proposal on the list, then we could vote on it
<Laney> ah yes
<Laney> I probably have to digest this
<tumbleweed> but yes, I'd prefer if everyone who had commented on the proposal was here
<tumbleweed> or at least someone :P
<barry> yeah ;)
<Laney> not sure why that thread is private
<barry> i'll put it on the agenda for next time
<Laney> anyway, micahg: thanks for sending it and I'll read/digest/comment soon
<bdrung> I probably didn't comment the proposal, because I agree with it
<tumbleweed> yeah, same
<barry> same
<Laney> i wrote it on my todo list and everything
<barry> anything else, or are we done for today?
 * tumbleweed votes for done
<barry> bdrung: you're up in 2 weeks
<barry> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  8 14:26:38 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-08-14.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-08-14.01.html
<barry> thanks everyone
<tumbleweed> yay for a quick meeting
<tumbleweed> we should have more of those (therefore discourage applicants, right? :P )
<barry> tumbleweed: only every 7th meeting :)
<tumbleweed> :)
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> hi!
<sarnold> hello
<jjohansen> \o
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  8 16:31:21 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> People may have noticed this before, but we have a new meeting time: 16:30 UTC
<jdstrand> Thanks to Angel Abad (angelabad) who provided a debdiff for quantal for almanah (LP: #1155000), and Christian Kuersteiner (ckuerste) who provided a debdiff for precise for tomcat7 (LP: #1115053). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1155000 in almanah 0.9 "[SRU] CVE-2013-1853: Almanah doesn't encrypt the database" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155000
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1115053 in tomcat7 (Ubuntu Raring) "Multiple open vulnerabilities in tomcat7 in 12.04 and 11.10" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1115053
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> april planning should all be done with everyone working on it (thanks to mdeslaur and jjohansen for helping me with the planning)
<jdstrand> I was also able to finish the 13.10 planning for the most part
<jdstrand> but there still is a requirement that needs to be nailed down that I am working on. if it goes well, it shouldn't require significant effort for 13.10
<jdstrand> I worked on refining the unity apparmor abstractions a bit, and plan to push those to the ppa at some point
<jdstrand> I've got a couple of audits to finish up on
<jdstrand> I think performance reviews are all done for now, but I might have something else to do there
<jdstrand> and, hopefully I'll have time to pick up an update
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on the nvidia driver updates
<mdeslaur> and am wrestling with jockey at the moment which for some reason doesn't like the new version
<mdeslaur> I have haproxy updates to test also
<mdeslaur> so I'll probably be publishing those two this week
<mdeslaur> and will go down the list, time permitting
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> oh, and am on community
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm once again working on display manager confinement
<sbeattie> I'm focusing on writing some example applications to help drive where we need to mediate in the display manager.
<mdeslaur> awesomesauce
<sbeattie> I sadly have one last objective task to finish up, due to brain-damage on my part last week.
<sbeattie> and that's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<jdstrand> sbeattie: I gave you a link last week about touch apps that use the SDK. you may be able to use/steal one of those (I didn't look at them at all though, so fyi only)
<sbeattie> yeah, I'll look at those
<tyhicks> I'm working on work items from https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-1304-appisolation-dbus
<tyhicks> Currently finishing up the "dbus - parser tests"
<tyhicks> I started on it last week and still have some more to do
<tyhicks> After that, I'll likely start on one of the other test related work items
<tyhicks> In spare time, I'm trying to get an eCryptfs fix for improved AES-NI performance ready for the 3.10 merge window
<tyhicks> That's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I am working on the apparmor labeling work again this week.
<jjohansen> I will be pushing an updated kernel that merges the current labeling and dbus dev branches
<tyhicks> jjohansen: do you think that the socket labelling stuff will make it into that kernel too?
<jjohansen> and there will be some dbus testing under the new labeled sockets
<jjohansen> tyhicks: yes
<tyhicks> good to hear :)
<jjohansen> sarnold: your up
<sarnold> I'm finishing up some vbulletin plugin reviews today; I've got another package for MIR audit to do
<sarnold> my first charm was accepted into the charm store :) I haven't yet looked to see exactly how someone else would use it, but I'm hoping to address one of the raised issues (admin email address) -- they've got a 30-day-quiet --> implies api is somewhat 'fixed' sort of rule, and I'd like to avoid tripping that :)
<sarnold> perhaps depending upon priorities I'll get to that this week, perhaps not
<mdeslaur> sarnold: oh, cool, congrats!
<sarnold> thanks mdeslaur :)
<sarnold> chrisccoulson: you're up
<chrisccoulson> i've been working on mozilla updates this week. thanks to jdstrand for walking me through that process :)
<jdstrand> sarnold: congrats on the charm acceptance! :)
<chrisccoulson> there's currently some process issues wrt webapps
<jdstrand> sarnold: was that the unattended upgrades one?
<chrisccoulson> i'm also tracking a couple of crashes from the firefox update
<sarnold> jdstrand: thanks, yes, unattended-upgrades :)
<jdstrand> sarnold: nice
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: you're welcome-- you did a great job :)
<chrisccoulson> unfortunately, not much progress with chromium automated testing this last week, but i'll hopefully be able to get back on that this week
<sarnold> chrisccoulson: congrats on the first one down :)
<chrisccoulson> there's still issues with chromium crashing on arm, which i've not been able to reproduce on my system
<chrisccoulson> i need to take a look at that this week to unblock updates for U4A
<chrisccoulson> i guess we need to start to figure out our webkit story this week, which is somewhat complicated by last weeks announcement
<chrisccoulson> i was going to suggest that one way of solving our 2-supported-js-engines-in-main issue would be to enable v8 in qtwebkit
<chrisccoulson> but it seems that following last weeks announcement, apple are purging the v8 bindings
<jdstrand> fun
<chrisccoulson> so that idea is a non-starter really
<chrisccoulson> i think that's it from me
<jdstrand> so I think it's back to me
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/network-manager-openvpn.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mpack.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gromacs.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ngircd.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/revelation.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  8 16:58:01 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-08-16.31.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-08-16.31.html
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<tyhicks> thanks!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks
<UbuPhillup> thanks
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: oh, I forgot to thank you for preparing the meeting wiki pages
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: so, thank you :)
<mdeslaur> haha
<mdeslaur> you're welcome :P
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-09
<rbasak> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  9 16:00:07 2013 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rbasak> ACTION: ALL, please look to hijack a dep-8 test from https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-seeded-qa-workflow (Daviey, 16:24:44)
<Daviey> o/
<arosales> hello
<Daviey> jamespage: can you summarise that BP?
<Daviey> should it be postponed in all?
<smoser> o/
<jamespage> OK - so I went through my WI's and postponed stuff I won't get to in the next 3 days
<jamespage> as the is my time window
<jamespage> adam_g, roaksoax, zul, rbasak all have WI's as well - please can you review and POSTPONE or implement prior to 13.04 pls
<zul> ack
<hallyn> (i actually do to, which i'll postpone)
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> ACTION: arosales to follow up with Norvald regarding SRU (Daviey, 16:28:55)
<jamespage> hallyn, sorry - missed you off the list
<arosales> rbasak, I still need to catch up with norvald
<rbasak> #action (carried forward) arosales to follow up with Norvald regarding SRU
<meetingology> ACTION: (carried forward) arosales to follow up with Norvald regarding SRU
<rbasak> ACTION: zul to review complexity of packaging perconia for Ubuntu NEW (Daviey, 16:30:30)
<rbasak> (thanks arosales)
<zul> did that i have my notes somewhere
<zul> where should I send my notes
<arosales> rbasak, thanks
<Daviey> zul: notes?
<rbasak> How about the Ubuntu server list? Would that be suitable?
<rbasak> And where do we go from here for that?
<zul> Daviey:  about the percona review
<zul> rbasak:  sure
<rbasak> Thanks zul!
<Daviey> Ah, ubuntu-server list sounds GREAT
<rbasak> #action zul to send notes from review of  complexity of packaging perconia for Ubuntu to the ubuntu-server list
<meetingology> ACTION: zul to send notes from review of  complexity of packaging perconia for Ubuntu to the ubuntu-server list
<rbasak> ACTION: Smoser to reach out to juju-core and discuss what integration with ubuntu image meta data can be done for Raring. (Daviey, 16:34:33)
<smoser> not done. will do today.
<rbasak> OK. Thanks smoser!
<rbasak> #action (carried forward) smoser to reach out to juju-core and discuss what integration with ubuntu image meta data can be done for Raring.
<meetingology> ACTION: (carried forward) smoser to reach out to juju-core and discuss what integration with ubuntu image meta data can be done for Raring.
<rbasak> ACTION: Daviey to follow up on bugs bug 1160373 and bug 1160378 (Daviey, 16:40:14)
<ubottu> bug 1160373 in xen (Ubuntu) "Support for APIC Virtualization in Xen" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160373
<ubottu> bug 1160378 in xen (Ubuntu) "TSC offset support for Xen" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160378
<Daviey> Fix released (thanks smb, zul)
<rbasak> Great. Thanks!
<rbasak> #topic Raring Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Raring Development
<rbasak> #subtopic Release Tracking Bug Tasks
<rbasak> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-r-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<rbasak> jamespage: would you like to go through these, please?
<jamespage> ok
<jamespage> bug 1157918
<ubottu> bug 1157918 in horizon (Ubuntu Raring) "Network selection tab when starting instance renders incorrectly" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157918
<jamespage> assigned to me - the ubuntu theme for horizon is still broken - I need to hassle huwshimi
<jamespage> roaksoax, bug 1064527 and bug 1073463
<ubottu> bug 1064527 in maas (Ubuntu Raring) "detect_ipmi needs improvement. detects non-existant device in nested kvm" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064527
<ubottu> bug 1073463 in maas (Ubuntu Raring) "User-configurable files are not installed in /etc" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1073463
<jamespage> roaksoax, likely to be fixed for raring?
<jamespage> rbasak has bug 1162139
<ubottu> bug 1162139 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Raring) "mysql-5.5 still built using GCC-4.4, should be built with the default GCC" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1162139
<rbasak> I'm made some progress but am still looking at it. None of the possible ways forward look easy
<jamespage> rbasak, ack
<jamespage> and bug 1163768
<ubottu> bug 1163768 in ntp (Ubuntu Raring) "ntp ftbfs in raring" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1163768
<rbasak> I may have to come back and say that a raring target is unrealistic
<rbasak> I Looks like the ntp ftbfs is fixed
<roaksoax> jamespage: detect_ipmi I have a fix for it...
<jamespage> indeed - closing bug
<roaksoax> jamespage: the latter, I talked to bigjools and needs upstream support to be able to do that as it is not just packaging
<rbasak> Thanks!
<jamespage> and finally bug 1121874
<ubottu> bug 1121874 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Raring) "MySQL launch fails silently if < 4MB of disk space is available" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1121874
<rbasak> This is relatively trivial, assuming that we're happy with the log going to /var/log/upstart, since that's the only place we can log to from an upstart job that I could see (am I correct)?
<jamespage> rbasak, sounds good
<rbasak> If so, I'll fix with the bigger mysql bug fix, or just on its own if I don't get that done
<rbasak> #subtopic Blueprints
<rbasak> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-servercloud-overview.html
<jamespage> sweet
<jamespage> roaksoax, OK - defer the config files one for raring I suggest
<rbasak> It looks like a lot of outstanding WIs need to be marked postponed?
<roaksoax> jamespage: indeed
<rbasak> jamespage: are there any blueprints you'd like to go through?
<jamespage> looking
<jamespage> nope
<rbasak> OK. Thanks for going through them and the bugs!
<rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jamespage> as you state postpone anything that ain't going to happen in the next few days
<jamespage> openstack design summit in portland next week
<jamespage> LOADS of people going
<Daviey> +1!
<rbasak> Any other events?
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
<plars> hi
<rbasak> plars: hello! Any updates from you? Or does anyone have any questions for plars?
<plars> So I have a couple of things
<plars> mostly on the subject of iso testing
<plars> I tried to run the iscsi tests for raring beta
<plars> and got the unauth mode to pass on one of them
<plars> but for all the rest, it hung for me on reboot and I was unable to complete the tests
<jamespage> plars, do you use my helper scripts?
<plars> jamespage: yes
<jamespage> more than likely bugs then
<plars> jamespage: I'm *fairly* certain I'm running them correctly, but couldn't see an easy way to debug anything past "it doesn't boot"
<jamespage> I'll take a quick run through
<plars> I was wondering if I could get some help with that
<plars> thanks
<plars> On the subject of MAAS tests:
<plars> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1461/info
<plars> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1462/info
<plars> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1463/info
<plars> I was able to run through the first one mostly - though either I was not finding some options in MAAS (possible since I've not used it much before) or the tests need a lot of updating
<plars> Is there a MAAS expert on the team that could help review the tests and make sure they are valid for what's currently in raring?
<jamespage> roaksoax, please could you help plars out this this?
<roaksoax> jamespage: definitely, it was on my todo for this week
<plars> Finally, there's a whole lot of ec2 tests on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com Can someone  see that those are attempted when we get to the release candidate?
<jamespage> roaksoax, great
<plars> I'd like to get the server stuff as close to 100% covered as possible for the raring release
<plars> this would be the week leading up to April 25
<jamespage> plars, sure - utlemming normally deals with the ec2 testing
<plars> awesome
<plars> that's all I have
<rbasak> Thanks roaksoax and jamespage for helping plars with QA.
<utlemming> plars: that tests are running
<plars> jamespage: I'll also try the iscsi tests again on todays image, so if you get something different from me then we'll know it must be something on my end
<utlemming> plars: they are on the build server jenkins instance
<utlemming> plars: but IS has yet to enable pushing them to the public instance
<utlemming> plars: I'll get with you on the EC2 testing
<plars> utlemming: fair enough
<jamespage> utlemming, do we need to disable them in the old QA setup?
<plars> utlemming: ok, sounds good
<rbasak> Thanks utlemming!
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Nothing to report this week (nothing I can remember at least ;-P). Would there be questions?
<rbasak> Thanks smb. Does anyone have any questions?
<jamespage> smb, do you know if there are plans
<smb> there are many
<jamespage> smb, to provide the raring 3.8 kernel on precise
<jamespage> like with did with 3.5?
<smb> jamespage, Yes I afaik that is the plan
<jamespage> smb, hmm - OK - I think we need to consider what we do with the important DKMS packages for server
<jamespage> I'd like to table that we look at upgrading things like openvswitch to the latest releases that support 3.8
<jamespage> I'm concerned that we are going to get into cherry pick hell trying to keep up with kernels every 6 months
<jamespage> i.e. openvswitch would bump to 1.9.0 in 12.04 for example
<smb> jamespage, that might be simpler to keep up with than just fixing the build issues. openvswitch might be more affected there than other dkms packages
<smb> iscsi_target could be another one to look for, though the block layer changes a little slower imo
<jamespage> smb, OK - I'll draw up a list an review/propose where we might go next then :-)
<smb> jamespage, ack
<rbasak> OK. Thanks smb!
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<jamespage> smb, it needed an update for raring :-)
<smb> jamespage, slower not not... :-P
 * jamespage stops hijacking rbasaks session
<rbasak> I have no updates. I'd like to just mention though that my mongodb patch is just a workaround to make it work. I need to look again at actually making it performant - I suspect I destroyed ARM performance in my alignment workaround.
<rbasak> Any questions for me?
<rbasak> I guess not.
<rbasak> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<rbasak> I had one question. Are we tracking outstanding merges to make sure that we don't ship (or are at least aware of) packages that are older than Debian?
<rbasak> I did exim4, and have puppet upload pending review, both of which picked up bugfixes from Debian
<jamespage> I've not been that hot on it lately
<jamespage> its hard to track due to the mixture of sources from unstable and experimental
<rbasak> I wondered if we should keep a list of what Debian version of a package we're happy with for each package
<rbasak> Then it might be easier to track it, and for a Debian revision we've opted not to merge, we won't be bothered by it.
<rbasak> Anyway, just a thought for next cycle maybe.
<rbasak> Any other items for open discussion anyone?
<rbasak> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<rbasak> The next meeting will be at Tue, 16 Apr 2013 16:00:00 +0000. The chair will be yolanda.
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  9 16:36:50 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-09-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-09-16.00.html
<rbasak> Thanks everyone!
<Daviey> thanks rbasak
<jamespage> ta rbasak
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  9 17:00:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/raring
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<bjf> o/
<ppisati> o/
<cking> \o
<kamal> \o
<sforshee> o/
<henrix> o/
<sconklin> o/
<smb> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing to report this week.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> I'll post updates from ogasawara
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<jsalisbury> || apw       || hardware-r-kernel-config-review             || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> ||           || hardware-r-delta-review                     || 2 work items ||
<jsalisbury> ||           || foundations-r-secure-boot                   || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> ||           || foundations-r-aarch64                       || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> ||           || foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements || 1 work item ||
<jsalisbury> ||           || foundations-1303-phablet-kernel-maintenance || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> || ckt       || foundations-1303-phablet-kernel-maintenance || 6 work items ||
<jsalisbury> || ogasawara || hardware-r-kernel-config-review             || 3 work items ||
<jsalisbury> ||           || hardware-r-kernel-version-and-flavors       || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> ||           || mobile-power-management                     || 3 work items ||
<jsalisbury> || ppisati   || hardware-r-kernel-config-review             || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> || rtg       || hardware-r-delta-review                     || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> || sforshee  || foundations-1303-phablet-kernel-maintenance || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> The above summarizes the remaining work items for the 13.04 cycle.  I
<jsalisbury> will begin assigning some of the ckt phatblet-kernel-maintenance work
<jsalisbury> items to specific individuals on the team who are already doing the
<jsalisbury> work.
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> Coming off Beta Freeze last week, we have since rebased Raring to the
<jsalisbury> v3.8.6 upstream stable kernel and uploaded.  With Kernel Freeze in
<jsalisbury> ~2days, we will perform one more upload prior to Kernel Freeze.  All
<jsalisbury> patches submitted after Kernel Freeze must adhere to our SRU policy.
<jsalisbury> Only critical bug fixes for the release will warrant an upload.
<jsalisbury> Important upcoming dates:
<jsalisbury>  * Thurs Apr 11 - Kernel Freeze (~2 days)
<jsalisbury>  * Thurs Apr 18 - Final Freeze (~1 week)
<jsalisbury>  * Thurs Apr 25 - Ubuntu 13.04 Final (~2 weeks)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2013-04-09 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 73 CVEs on our radar, with 5 CVE retired this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<sconklin> Status for the main kernels, until today (Apr. 9):
<sconklin>   *   Lucid - In Prep; (14 commits)
<sconklin>   * Precise - In Prep; 2 upstream releases; (170 commits)
<sconklin>   * Quantal - In Prep; 2 upstream releases; (225 commits)
<sconklin> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<sconklin>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<sconklin> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<sconklin>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<sconklin> Future stable cadence cycles:
<sconklin>   * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseInterlock
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  9 17:05:00 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-09-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-09-17.00.html
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-10
 * slangasek waves
<stokachu> o/
 * ogra_ shores
<jodh> \o
<doko> hi
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 10 15:00:50 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> cjwatson stokachu xnox stgraber jodh doko ev ogra barry bdmurray slangasek
<slangasek> cjwatson: and... go!
<cjwatson> Minor cdimage publishing fixes and other general helping out with beta-2.
<cjwatson> Continuing to push the Haskell transition up the hill in spare moments.  Almost there now.
<cjwatson> Fixed bug 1158750 (ubiquity generated non-UTF-8 locales in some cases).
<cjwatson> Spent most of the rest of the week working on an app installer prototype at Steve's request, including discussion with Stuart.
<ubottu> bug 1158750 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "Ubiquity does not create correct UTF-8 locales" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158750
<cjwatson> ..
<cjwatson> (Sorry, was off in another window poking at a bug in the last item)
<stokachu> Top priority: bug 1158465
<stokachu> Need Sponsor/SRU: bug 1013798, bug 1027086, bug 857983, bug 859600, bug 1069570
<ubottu> bug 1158465 in walinuxagent (Ubuntu Quantal) "[SRU] update Windows Azure WALinuxAgent to 1.3.2 (12.04.2, 12.10 and 13.04)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158465
<stokachu> Need ETA for: bug 1057358
<stokachu> Backport request: 1068399
<stokachu> ...
<ubottu> bug 1013798 in libgcrypt11 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Blink SIP client segfaults with libgcrypt11 1.5.0-3ubuntu0.1" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013798
<ubottu> bug 1027086 in vino (Ubuntu Precise) "incorrect schema setting used for authentication-methods in vino server" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1027086
<ubottu> bug 857983 in gpointing-device-settings (Ubuntu Quantal) "The Pointing Devices menu item is missing after upgrading to Oneiric" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857983
<ubottu> bug 859600 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Precise) "Please convert gnome-keyring to multiarch" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/859600
<ubottu> bug 1069570 in MAAS "1 MAC Address, two IPs - DNS is "out of sync" with DHCP leases databases, I think..." [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1069570
<ubottu> bug 1057358 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Precise) "dhcpd in isc-dhcp-server-ldap cannot read /etc/ldap/ldap.conf due to missing entry in apparmor profile" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057358
<ogra_> xnox sent a mail
<slangasek> he did - and stgraber is off today
<stokachu> i'd really love to have bug 1158465 done today
<ubottu> bug 1158465 in walinuxagent (Ubuntu Quantal) "[SRU] update Windows Azure WALinuxAgent to 1.3.2 (12.04.2, 12.10 and 13.04)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158465
<slangasek> jodh:
<jodh> * blueprints:
<jodh>   - foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements:
<jodh>     - Submitted MP for basic Upstart python3 module + unitests:
<jodh>       lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/python-upstart-module
<jodh>     - Currently working through review comments - thanks barry!
<jodh> * other:
<jodh>   - almost finished work for bug 1157713 (need to finish grinding through
<ubottu> bug 1157713 in upstart "upstart tests which run without inotify fail occasionally" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157713
<jodh>     autoconf+libtool to plug the bits together).
<jodh>   - investigating bug 1124384: Behaviour is still mystifying. Hit a few
<ubottu> bug 1124384 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "reload-configuration can confuse upstart" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1124384
<jodh>     problems with LXC in the process and wrote a quick set of DEP-8
<jodh>     tests to avoid future re-occurence:
<jodh>     https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/raring/lxc/dep-8-tests/+merge/157938
<jodh> â¥º
<doko> - python 2.7.4 and 3.3.1 releases
<doko> - GCC 4.6.4 and 4.7.3 release candidates
<doko> - ftbfs in main down to four
<doko> - ftbfs in universe below 500
<doko> - eclipse, ecj, swt-gtk updates and fixes
<doko> - Tcl/Tk multiarch fixes
<doko> - Twisted source package split into one for Py2 and one for Py3
<doko> - python-defaults fixes for -proposed
<doko> - buildd watch
<doko> (done)
<doko> do I need FFe's for the final GCC releases?
<xnox> stokachu: bug 1158465 seems it's already in -proposed, but missing the comment/status change on the bug report. Can someone from SRU team publish the comment?
<ubottu> bug 1158465 in walinuxagent (Ubuntu Quantal) "[SRU] update Windows Azure WALinuxAgent to 1.3.2 (12.04.2, 12.10 and 13.04)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158465
<slangasek> stokachu: 1158465 is needing a sponsor?  perhaps someone on the cloud team could/should sponsor this?
<xnox> wrong number. The bug 1057358 needs a comment that it is in -proposed already.
<ubottu> bug 1057358 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Precise) "dhcpd in isc-dhcp-server-ldap cannot read /etc/ldap/ldap.conf due to missing entry in apparmor profile" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057358
<stokachu> slangasek: the only cloud guys i know are in CTS and do not have rights to sponsor
<slangasek> jodh: so stgraber and xnox are both off today; are there any MPs you're currently blocked on getting a review of?
<jodh> slangasek: well, it'd be good to get further input on https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/upstart/allow-multiple-cmdline-confdirs/+merge/156512
<ev> - Wrote a script to poke at the 'retracing' row of the Indexes CF to see how
<ev>   many problems are actually seen as being retraced in the DB vs how many
<ev>   actually are. Followed up with an RT:
<ev>   http://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=60566
<ev>   I also made some small improvements to the retracing code to avert this sort
<ev>   of thing in the future and log when it happens. This should mean quite a few
<ev>   more problems showing up as retraced, but it shouldn't skew our daily counts.
<ev> - Resurrected the BucketVersions rebuild code.
<ev> - Looked into getting apport working on the nexus 7. Rebuilt the initrd
<ev>   disabiling debuggerd, setting the proper ulimits, and correctly setting the
<ev>   core pipe handler, but no dice.
<ev>   - Talked through the kernel team with it on ogra's advice, but I didn't get
<ev>     much of a response. The android kernel seems to completely ignore
<ev>     /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern. gcore works just fine. Suggestions welcome.
<ev> - Fought weird data in the crashdb encountered in our script to fix bug
<slangasek> jodh: ok, queuing it here
<ev>   1077122 (RT 60205). Looks like FS corruption:
<ev>   http://paste.ubuntu.com/5680293/
<ev>   Fixed, and after about two days of running, we finally have data to quickly
<ev>   weight errors by how long its been since the first one for that system for
<ev>   that release, which should repair the spikes in the average errors per
<ev>   calendar day graph.
<ev> - Looking into why the retracer amd64 failed queue (indicates apport-retrace
<ev>   crashing) significantly climbed over the past few days. Improved logging
<ev>   around apport-retrace failing while running the failed queue against apport
<ev>   trunk tip.
<ev>   - Upon investigating further, it looks like the firewall is still preventing
<ev>     a large number of retraces from looking up the Contents.gz file. I built a
<ev>     new version of apport to dig at this further, but then did some digging on
<ev>     one of the retracer machines and confirmed that it's the HTTP proxy we're
<ev>     using.
<ev> - More investigative work into how we're bucketing crashes, what we're missing,
<ev>   and how the algorithm can be improved. I've been doing this via the script
<ev>   that's meant to repopulate BucketVersions with per-release
<ev>   sorted-by-dpkg-version data. This dovetailed nicely with the KernelOOPs work.
<ev> - Colleague reviews.
<ev> - Implemented a new URL for finding a bucket by its bug number
<ev>   (https://errors.ubuntu.com/bug/1094218), based on the earlier work Brian did
<ev>   (RT 60640, deployed).
<ev> - Worked with Emily on the layout of errors.ubuntu.com.
<ev> - Meetings with Tom and James to discuss bringing up a secondary Cassandra ring:
<ev>   - We want to be able to upgrade Cassandra to 1.2, but James is worried about
<ev>     the risks without a hot-standby ring in place.
<ev>   - We want to deploy Hadoop on Cassandra and open up access to data scientists
<jodh> slangasek: ta
<slangasek> doko: is there something we could have done differently to catch the python-minimal module issue before it hit the archive?
<ev>     within Canonical, but James and Tom don't want to do this until we have a
<ev>     way to keep that load off the primary cluster, like with a secondary one.
<ev>   - We need to add more nodes anyway, as we're running out of disk space again.
<ev>   - We can (presumably) save a lot of space by using compression, but James
<ev>     doesn't want to look into turning this on retroactively until after the
<ev>     13.04 release.
<ev>   - We came up with a number of options, each with its own set of problems and
<ev>     cost, that we intended to put into a write up for approval by Robbie/Rick.
<ev>   - However, James came up with a plan to build the secondary ring in
<ev>     Prodstack, so we're going to build it out there, upgrade to 1.2, and if all
<ev>     goes well, upgrade the primary ring to 1.2:
<ev>     https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=60652
<ev> - Looking into why we're not getting a lot of KernelOOPS reports for Andy.
<ev>   - Turned out to be a bug where we're not bucketing them properly. In the
<ev>     process of writing test cases for this and fixing by refactoring the
<ev>     submission code.
<ev> - Set up a meeting with Legal to create an NDA for https://errors.ubuntu.com \o/
<ev> - Got a new version of django-openid-auth rolled out to production to fix:
<ev>   - https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops-local/2013-04-09/04522.errors.ubuntu.com1
<ev>   - https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops-local/2013-04-09/77302.errors.ubuntu.com1
<ev>   - https://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+bug/1073680
<ev> (done!)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1073680 in Errors "ValueError at /openid/login/ That field has already been requested " [Medium,Fix released]
<ogra_> phew
<stokachu> strongbad!
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_>  * revisited the livecd-rootfs implementation of building android images, sadly the build has to source some shell from the android build system which is full of bashisms (about 3000 lines of bad bash script)
<ogra_>    pondering to fix the build system or to just use #!/bin/bash in the scripts
<ogra_>  * armhf image tests and fixes (ac100, omap4)
<ogra_>  * reviewed several merge proposals
<ogra_>  * some bug work
<ev> computer over!
<ogra_>  * added experimental raring images to the phablet sync process on cdimage
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_>  * finish the livecd-rootfs android build implementation
<stokachu> haha
<ogra_>  * go forward on the cdimage side of the android cross build stuff
<ogra_>  * finally start with the emulator work for ubuntu touch
<doko> slangasek, better review? I think I messed with the backport, for (py3, not py2)
<ogra_>  * look at universe armhf only ftbfs
<ogra_> ..
<slangasek> stokachu: seems that utlemming is the maintainer of the walinuxagent package, I imagine he would be willing and able to sponsor for you
<stokachu> slangasek: sponsor his own MP?
<doko> slangasek, it was python3-minimal, not python-minimal
<barry> bug 1163609 (really bug 1124508).  bug 1063350.  still working on bug 1078697.  reviewed jhunt's upstart branch.  more research on click packages, on hold now for results of dpkg prototype. dmb meeting. done.
<slangasek> stokachu: sure; no rule against it (and in fact, since MPs are mostly useless for SRUs, he should Just Uploadâ¢)
<ubottu> bug 1124508 in Curl "duplicate for #1163609 Segfault in curl_multi_cleanup error() when multi->closure_handle is NULL" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1124508
<ubottu> bug 1124508 in Curl "Segfault in curl_multi_cleanup error() when multi->closure_handle is NULL" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1124508
<ubottu> bug 1063350 in pycurl (Ubuntu) "curl corrupts floating point context" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1063350
<ubottu> bug 1078697 in apt (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu archive is missing SHA-1/SHA-256 hashes for some packages" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078697
<stokachu> slangasek: i asked utlemming and he doesn't have rights to upload
<slangasek> stokachu: wat!
<bdmurray> updated daisy branch based on evan's feedback
<bdmurray> updated oopsrepository branch per evan's changes
<bdmurray> added test for oops-repository srcversbuckets cf
<bdmurray> worked on daisy and errors branches to create a BugToCrashSignature_CF
<bdmurray> merge my branch to daisy and errors for bug to crash signatures work
<slangasek> stokachu: ok, well I'm due to take a patch pilot day this week, so I'll have a look today
<ev> woo!
<bdmurray> updated daisy branch based on evan's feedback
<bdmurray> updated oopsrepository branch per evan's changes
<bdmurray> added test for oops-repository srcversbuckets cf
<bdmurray> worked on daisy and errors branches to create a BugToCrashSignature_CF
<bdmurray> merge my branch to daisy and errors for bug to crash signatures work
<stokachu> slangasek: thanks it is _really_ urgent to get done today if at all possible
<ogra_> geez, you did double the work !
<slangasek> ogra_: my advise is to switch to bash rather than create a delta with the android upstream buildsystem to try to remove bashisms
<bdmurray> setup error tracker in canonistack again
<bdmurray> pushed branch fixing errors bug 1064398 and daisy bug 1056264
<bdmurray> code review for evan regarding hashes
<bdmurray> wrote pycassa query to use SourceVersionBuckets to find new crashes in packages
<bdmurray> iso testing bug triage
<ubottu> bug 1064398 in Errors "errors.ubuntu.com URL parameters are secret" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064398
<ubottu> bug 1056264 in Daisy "launchpad bug status is not distro-series aware" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056264
<bdmurray> ogra_: there new stuff now
<bdmurray> bug triage of ubuntu-release-upgrader, update-manager, and ubiquity bug reports
<bdmurray> review of update-manager bug day work
<bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader fix for bug 1127451
<bdmurray> fixed bug 801288 regarding hugday
<ubottu> bug 1127451 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade crashed with AttributeError in doPostInitialUpdate(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'req_reinstall_pkgs'" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1127451
<ubottu> bug 801288 in Tools used by the Ubuntu QA Team "cannot close bugs with hugdaytool" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801288
<bdmurray> investigation into http://launchpad.net/bugs/1162469
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1162469 in software-properties (Ubuntu Raring) "After upgrade to 13.04, changing the software reporitories is impossible" [High,Incomplete]
<bdmurray> investigation into policykit password issue
<bdmurray> research into bug 1069072
<bdmurray> update-notifier: modified avahi disabled notification to run as an upstart user session
<ubottu> bug 1069072 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "DistUpgradeViewKDE.py launches browser as root" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1069072
<ogra_> slangasek, well a simple s/^function // got checkbashisms from ~1500 complaints down to 300 :)
<bdmurray> done
<ogra_> but there are a lot of arrays in there i dont want to rework
<slangasek> ogra_: I'm sure the last set won't be nearly so easy ;p
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> the bad thing is they are all suffixed with .sh ... but have no shebang at all
<slangasek> bdmurray: did you mention that you've successfully identified an SRU regression in -proposed now using errors? \o/
<ogra_> so it blindly assumes you have bash when building
<ogra_> (everything is just sourced)
<bdmurray> slangasek: no, not explictly
<slangasek> bdmurray: ah well, kudos for it, I think this is a big deal :)
<slangasek>  * finished up reviews... everyone's getting a promotion and/or fired and/or getting a raise, tune in for the exciting conclusion of this story next month
<slangasek>  * helped get Final Beta out last week, noticed some gaps in our checklist now that alphas are optional, working to fix the process so things don't fall through the cracks
<slangasek>  * attending to partner archive (new fluendo gstreamer plugins needed)
<slangasek> (done)
<bdmurray> slangasek: thanks!
<slangasek>  * sponsor upload of likewise-open for bug #1162836
<ubottu> bug 1162836 in likewise-open (Ubuntu Precise) "likewise screws up PAM configuration for other services" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1162836
<slangasek>  * landed my first patch to compiz (bug #763148), should land in the archive any day now if the unity regression tests manage to pass
<ubottu> bug 763148 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Adding/Removing an external monitor causes open windows to move to another workspace" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/763148
<slangasek>  * reviews of the frozen queue
<slangasek> any further questions over status?
<slangasek> doko: when you say "better review", do you mean in the queue?
<slangasek> doko: queue reviews are expensive; I'd rather we think about whether this could have been caught automatically with the right kinds of pre-acceptance testing
<doko> slangasek, well, both by myself, and by the queue handler, but the diff moving stuff from binary-indep to binary-arch wasn't that helpful
<doko> which you can't always catch, if you you unpack one package before the other
<slangasek> ev: btw, on the android kernel question, ogra_'s actual suggestion was to talk to ricardo (== rsalveti), who I see hasn't been active on #ubuntu-kernel
<slangasek> ev: so perhaps there's a useful lead there for you still
<ev> ohhhh
<ev> slangasek, ogra_: thanks!
<ev> will do
<ogra_> yeah, in #ubuntu-touch
<rsalveti> sorry, what is the question, trying to find at the backlog
<slangasek> doko: right... but we do have quite a bit of setup around upgrade testing, so given that python is critical to update-manager, perhaps it makes sense to always do an upgrade test when we upload python3?  (automatically in QA, not you personally)
<slangasek> rsalveti: apport not working on Android kernel on nexus7 because it seems to be ignoring the core handler setting
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<rsalveti> slangasek: right, thanks
<bdmurray> I was able to recreate bug 1160441 the other day
<ubottu> bug 1160441 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "Calendar is still in English despite French is selected as the Language during the installation" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160441
<stokachu> my top priority bug was addressed but could i confirmation on my other bugs posted
<bdmurray> stokachu: I'll look 1013798 today
<stokachu> thanks
 * slangasek reposts the list of stokachu's bugs:
<slangasek> 08:03 < stokachu> Need Sponsor/SRU: bug 1013798, bug 1027086, bug 857983, bug 859600, bug 1069570
<slangasek> 08:03 < stokachu> Need ETA for: bug 1057358
<slangasek> 08:03 < stokachu> Backport request: 1068399
<ubottu> bug 1013798 in libgcrypt11 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Blink SIP client segfaults with libgcrypt11 1.5.0-3ubuntu0.1" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013798
<ubottu> bug 1027086 in vino (Ubuntu Precise) "incorrect schema setting used for authentication-methods in vino server" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1027086
<ubottu> bug 857983 in gpointing-device-settings (Ubuntu Quantal) "The Pointing Devices menu item is missing after upgrading to Oneiric" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857983
<ubottu> bug 859600 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Precise) "Please convert gnome-keyring to multiarch" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/859600
<ubottu> bug 1069570 in MAAS "1 MAC Address, two IPs - DNS is "out of sync" with DHCP leases databases, I think..." [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1069570
<ubottu> bug 1057358 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Precise) "dhcpd in isc-dhcp-server-ldap cannot read /etc/ldap/ldap.conf due to missing entry in apparmor profile" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057358
<slangasek> man I hate libgcrypt
<stokachu> slangasek: fortunately this fix is in python-gnutls
<stokachu> i think seb128 may be best for 857983
<slangasek> bdmurray: hmm, so that calendar code is in ubiquity?
<bdmurray> I think the regional format was set incorrectly
<stokachu> 1057358 needs the sru message about it being in -proposed
<slangasek> bdmurray: I guess I'd check to see what's in /etc/default/locale + ~/.pam_environment in these various scenarios
<slangasek> stokachu: bug #859600 is currently blocked by another SRU in -proposed, feel free to harrangue the submitter of that bug to do his verification (I sent a ping on the bug yesterday)
<ubottu> bug 859600 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Precise) "Please convert gnome-keyring to multiarch" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/859600
<cjwatson> bdmurray: 1160441> could be another consequence of bug 1158750 which I fixed
<ubottu> bug 1158750 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "Ubiquity does not create correct UTF-8 locales" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158750
<bdmurray> cjwatson: okay, I'll test it again then
<cjwatson> a bunch of stuff seems to have bitrotted in terms of ability to cope with non-UTF-8 locales
<doko> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-gnutls/1.2.4-1ubuntu1 that one is built
<stokachu> slangasek: whats the other bug #?
<cjwatson> bdmurray: but this would be quick to verify by looking at /etc/default/locale
<slangasek> stokachu: bug #1094496
<ubottu> bug 1094496 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Precise) "gnome-keyring-daemon leaks memory" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1094496
<cjwatson> bdmurray: or it's true we could still be missing some locale category or something; it's all distressingly hardcoded ...
<slangasek> stokachu: (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-keyring/, precise-proposed, expand details)
<bdmurray> cjwatson: I already deleted the virtual machine
<stokachu> slangasek: ok
<bdmurray> Is bug 1160783 something for cyphermox or us?
<ubottu> bug 1160783 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with KeyError in build_passphrase_cache(): '802-11-wireless-security'" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160783
 * cjwatson updates the bug
<bdmurray> ev: thanks for errors.ubuntu.com/bug/1160783 !
<cjwatson> bdmurray: us I suspect
<slangasek> stokachu: fixed the missing info on bug #1057358
<ubottu> bug 1057358 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Precise) "dhcpd in isc-dhcp-server-ldap cannot read /etc/ldap/ldap.conf due to missing entry in apparmor profile" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057358
<bdmurray> actually there aren't that many instances of it
<stokachu> slangasek: awesome thanks
<slangasek> per-bug errors pages - yes, woot
<ev> bdmurray: sure thing :)
<ev> it was an easy one to pick off
<bdmurray> moving on to bug 1164754 thumper upgraded from Q to R and did not have gnome-control-center-unity installed but I'm still waiting on log files
<ubottu> bug 1164754 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "No appearance settings available in System Settings" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1164754
<bdmurray> any ideas though?
<stokachu> my low hanging fruit one is bug 1068399
<ubottu> bug 1068399 in Precise Backports "Please backport parallel 20120422-1 (universe) from raring" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1068399
<slangasek> bdmurray: well, unity only recommends gnome-control-center-unity, g-c-c-u isn't a dep or recommend of ubuntu-desktop...  is an ubuntu-meta upload needed?
<slangasek> (not sure it should ever show up in Task: ubuntu-desktop without the metapackage first being uploaded?)
<cjwatson> it would show up in Task, though that won't affect upgrades
<cjwatson> gnome-control-center-unity isn't mentioned in the desktop seed or anything
<slangasek> right, so it seems like it should get seeded?
<ogra_> oh, that reminds me that i also have an outstanding meta upload
 * ogra_ nearly forgot about that
<slangasek> ogra_: perhaps coordinate with bdmurray wrt g-c-c-u?
<ogra_> happy to do the seed change for him
<xnox> yes we need to have gnome-control-center-unity as it replaces the /stock/ appearance panel with many unity settings.
<bdmurray> ogra_: great thanks!
<bdmurray> I did some digging into bug 1102593 but didn't see how it could be occurring
<ubottu> bug 1102593 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade crashed with UnboundLocalError in doDistUpgradeFetching(): local variable 'e' referenced before assignment" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1102593
<slangasek> does the submitter have teamview installed?
<slangasek> that's always a good way to get bugs
<bdmurray> so if somebody could have a 2nd look at it with me that'd be great
<barry> bdmurray: i'm looking now
<bdmurray> barry: thanks
<bdmurray> then bug 1163773
<ubottu> bug 1163773 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager hangs during pre-config" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1163773
<bdmurray> I saw a few similar reports regarding upgrading kernel packages
<bdmurray> like bug 1163275
<ubottu> bug 1163275 in apt (Ubuntu) "Software updater has hung on the last two kernel package installs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1163275
<slangasek> cjwatson: any ideas on 1163773?
<cjwatson> slangasek: could be a dup of bug 1163142 et al; commented
<ubottu> bug 1163142 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "Hangs when "preconfiguring packages" at the installation of a language" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1163142
<slangasek> ok, cool
<cjwatson> certainly looks like a similar ps structure
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?
<cjwatson> I was expecting that bug to have a bazillion unmarked dups
<bdmurray> stokachu: it looks like somebody got to bug 1013798, I'll review them in the sru queue then
<ubottu> bug 1013798 in libgcrypt11 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Blink SIP client segfaults with libgcrypt11 1.5.0-3ubuntu0.1" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013798
<stokachu> bdmurray: awesome, thanks man
<bdmurray> cjwatson: I'll poke around for dupes
<bdmurray> slangasek: bug 1058884
<ubottu> bug 1058884 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade crashed with EOFError in /usr/lib/ubuntu-release-upgrader/check-new-release: EOF read where not expected" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058884
<slangasek> strange that the file has the wrong checksum
<slangasek> was that corruption, or just a wrong version?  (Why did you suspect the file was wrong?)
<bdmurray> slangasek: it seemed like either the file was wrong or the hardware was having issues
<slangasek> hmm
<jodh> some of those bugs mention py3clean - .py* files being removed at the same time as being read?
<slangasek> who could follow up on this?  barry?
 * slangasek looks at the clock
<barry> slangasek: bug 1058884?
<ubottu> bug 1058884 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade crashed with EOFError in /usr/lib/ubuntu-release-upgrader/check-new-release: EOF read where not expected" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058884
<slangasek> barry: yes
<barry> yikes.  that's odd.  okay, i'll look at it
 * barry was already looking at bug 1102593 ;)
<ubottu> bug 1102593 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade crashed with UnboundLocalError in doDistUpgradeFetching(): local variable 'e' referenced before assignment" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1102593
<slangasek> barry: thanks :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<jodh> Coverity !!
<slangasek> :)
<ogra_> crazy talk
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 10 16:06:19 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-10-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-10-15.00.html
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<ogra_> thanks !
<barry> thanks!
<jodh> ta
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-04-07
 * bdmurray looks around
<bdmurray> I believe I'm that chair today, do we take attendance first or anything?
<Laney> hi
<stgraber> bdmurray: I think we've got quorum so it's fine to just start the meeting
 * xnox O/
<Laney> Do you mind chairing in your first meeting?
<Laney> The agenda from the last meeting hasn't been cleared yet, unfortunately
<bdmurray> I think I can sort it out
<ScottK> \o
<Laney> ok
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Ubuntu DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  7 15:03:16 2014 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<bdmurray> It doesn't look like there were any previous action items, as the one on the agenda seems to be a holdover, correct?
<ScottK> No.  I think at least some of that needed to be done after the last meeting.
<ScottK> stgraber would know if it's all done, in any case.
<stgraber> I think everything was done
<bdmurray> okay, great.
<bdmurray> moving on then
<bdmurray> #topic Per Package Uploader Application: Benjamin Kerensa
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu DMB Meeting | Current topic: Per Package Uploader Application: Benjamin Kerensa
<bdmurray> I don't see bkerensa here, but I've pinged him.
<Laney> Could swap to stokachu & come back
<bdmurray> okay, let's do that then
<bdmurray> #topic Ubuntu Core dev application: Adam Stokes
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu DMB Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Core dev application: Adam Stokes
<bdmurray> stokachu: Are you ready?
<Laney> Hmm
<xnox> utc/summer-time hiatus?
<stgraber> well, if that was the case, they'd have been here an hour ago
<stgraber> so probably not
 * xnox ponders australia... two hours late or something like that?!
<ScottK> Makes it a short meeting.
<xnox> they are not in southern hemispheres though, i think.
<bdmurray> Maybe we should email candidates a reminder?
<ScottK> I think if they can't manage to remember, they've earned the result they get.
<ScottK> We can roll them over to two weeks from now.
<ScottK> The agenda for that meeting is empty ATM anyway.
<bdmurray> Maybe they should be 2nd in case anybody else applies
<Laney> Bit unfortunate if anyone wants to apply today for the next meeting
<Laney> Ho hum
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu DMB Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<Laney> That's what happens, I guess
<bdmurray> Okay, is there anything else?
<xnox> well if people show up in 1 hour maybe we could still reconvene...
<bdmurray> I'm actually not working / on holiday today
<bdmurray> and I still made it to the meeting on time ;-)
<bdmurray> Since there's nothing else then let's wrap up the meeting.
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  7 15:18:49 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-07-15.03.moin.txt
<Laney> Intense meeting
<xnox> bdmurray: excellent chairing =)
<stokachu> bdmurray: sorry im here
<stokachu> probably to late
<stokachu> damnit
<xnox> bdmurray: Laney: ScottK: micahg: ping ^
<ScottK> Still here.
<Laney> Cool
<Laney> Just settled down for a nap too
<xnox> we are still within normal 1h slot for the meeting =)
<xnox> bdrung: around? =)
<bdmurray> I'm still here
<xnox> bdmurray: restart the meeting? =)
 * bdmurray looks for restart command
<Laney> start it again
<bdmurray> that was a joke ;-)
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Ubuntu DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  7 15:26:47 2014 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Ubuntu Core dev application: Adam Stokes
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu DMB Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Core dev application: Adam Stokes
<xnox> From service manpage restart is stop, start =))))))))) </joke>
<stokachu> hi, thanks guys for restarting for me
<bdmurray> stokachu: Could you introduce yourself, your work, and your application?
<stokachu> Hi, I've been working for Canonical doing a Sustaining Engineering role and recently moving into Solutions Engineer concentrating on juju, maas, and our most recent project cloud installer
<stokachu> one sec lemme get the app link
<stokachu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AdamStokes/CoreDevApplication
<ScottK> For those of us that don't work at Canonical, sustaining/solutions engineering doesn't mean much.
<stokachu> as stated in the application ive been using Ubuntu for roughly 3 years and Fedora prior to that for 7 years
<stokachu> Susstaining engineering revolved around maintaining the quality and stability of the existing product lines
<stokachu> inlucding Base OS, Kernel maintenance, and Cloud technologies such as Juju
<xnox> stokachu: mostly on LTS releases only?
<stokachu> Sustaining rarely did new feature enhancements or new package appication
<stokachu> Yea our main focus was LTS releases
<stokachu> however when we sent a patch we did it for all supported Relesaes
<stokachu> releases*
<stokachu> In solutions engineering we are kind of a R&D department
<stokachu> where we work on upstream enhancements with focus in maas, juju, and hpc
<ScottK> Usually, people apply for MOTU, before core-dev.  How it's somewhat unusual to see someone going for core-dev as their first entry point into ubuntu-dev.
<stokachu> as for outside of the canonical realm i've successfully submitted the package sosreport in the Debian archive via the mentors program
<stokachu> which was handled from scratch until upload
<stokachu> I am currently a Ubuntu contributing developer
<stokachu> ScottK: ^
<stokachu> when time permits ive done package merges from debian into X ubuntu release
<stokachu> participated in +1 maintenance
<ScottK> Right, but that's not part of ubuntu-dev (that's people with upload rights)
<Laney> What do you imagine you'll be mainly working on in the Ubuntu archive?
<xnox> ScottK: however, I went straight from contributing developer -> core dev. So there have been cases like that before. Also looking at stokachu's upload history most of the uploads that got sponsored for him are for "main" packages.
<stokachu> My main focus will be our cloud products such as Maas, Juju, and Cloud installer
 * Laney doesn't think going straight for core-dev is a problem in itself if there's experience and that's where the interests/intention to contribute is
<stokachu> curtin
<stokachu> Where main package contributions come into play will be against those that are depending on by the stated cloud products
<stokachu> dhcp, bind, etc
<ScottK> xnox: I know it's happened, it's just not usual.
<stokachu> ive worked with xnox and bdmurray on a few occasions related to packaging and userspace maintenance work
<bdmurray> stokachu: with your change in teams and responsibilities has your focus shifted from SRUs to the development release?
<stokachu> bdmurray: yea my focus won't be SRU at this time
<stokachu> primarily due to team sizes/resources etc
<stokachu> CTS would still handle the SRU's for products i will directly work on
<ScottK> CTS?
<stokachu> canonical technical services
<stokachu> the department where Sustaining Engineering resides
<stokachu> ScottK: sorry i dont intentially mean to automatically assume everyone knows canonical
<ScottK> Let's try and make it through the rest of the meeting without any references to the Canonical org chart.
<stokachu> sure
<ScottK> What do you think of the process for landing maas/juju development efforts into Ubuntu?
<stokachu> They aren't in line with the rest of development processes
<bdmurray> stokachu: your application seems to be missing the "Things I could do better" section.  Is that deliberate?
<stokachu> As in feature freezes tend to not apply to them, however, I feel they should
<stokachu> bdmurray: there is a one liner which states Increase my productivity by stream lining my work items for the different projects I am involved in.
<stokachu> and by increasing productivity I mean adhearing to the processes defined by Ubuntu
<ScottK> stokachu: Feature freeze does apply.  They just ignore it and ask for an FFe every time.
<stokachu> reduce back and forth
<xnox> stokachu: MAAS & juju testing is loosely integrated with ubuntu release cycle. Past three releases co-incided with Openstack summits and there was nobody available (and had hardware) to execute end-to-end MAAS testing, and it hasn't been tested regularly during the development cycle. In your opinion, how can this be improved?
<xnox> (thus critical bugs were discovered more-or-less during release weeks)
<stokachu> xnox: So CI is definitely a big issue in my eyes
<stokachu> we shouldnt be releasing products that do not 100% pass tests and have a huge percentage of coverage
<ScottK> Having a release schedule that's aligned to Ubuntu's would help.
<stokachu> For juju in particular it would be beneficial to stick to not making breaking changes in minor releases
<stokachu> Also maas release 1.5 which is way to close to the 14.04 release
<stokachu> to be audited and signed off on
<stokachu> released*
<stokachu> Making sure codebases are green before doing releases is a pet peeve of mine
<stokachu> But, maas and juju teams do realize the pitfalls
<stokachu> and are actively changing their processes and increasing testing
<stokachu> They are in the right direction so I strongly believe those aligned processes with Ubuntu will be seen in the near future
<xnox> stokachu: ok. Slightly different question: What should one do when updating a library, that removes one function from its ABI?
<stokachu> xnox: ifa function is removed the symbol tables would need to be updated to reflect that
<stokachu> among a version bump and possible rebuilds of affected packages
 * bdrung_work arrives
<xnox> stokachu: how would you find out list of affected packages?
<stokachu> xnox: running a rdepends to see which version of the library is used
<stokachu> using ldd will also give you the library version used
<xnox> stokachu: ok. There is also "reverse-depends" command, that I find is often faster (it uses pregenerated caches)
<xnox> no more questions from me.
<bdmurray> Does anybody else have any questions?
<stokachu> xnox: is that different than the rdepends argument?
<stokachu> apt-rdepends?
<stokachu> or that may be recursive
<ScottK> If you have a library that needs a version bump, what packaging changes are needed?
<xnox> stokachu: one is local, the other one uses remote cache. Otherwise basic functionality is about the same. But each has extra features lacking in the other tool.
<stokachu> ah ok good t oknow
<ScottK> Also reverse-depends -b will give you the reverse build-deps.
<stokachu> ScottK: changing the SONAME and corresponding name for the binary package
<stokachu> call ldconfig within postinst
<stokachu> hm.. what else
<stokachu> i think those are the main things
<ScottK> Other than sosreport and the things related to your work, what interests in Ubuntu development do you have?
<stokachu> im a big fan of KDE so I'd like to be more active in that area
<stokachu> maybe not so much the DE portion but its applications
<stokachu> I also enjoy blogging and talking about products/projects in a way that can benefit small businesses
<stokachu> wrt juju I have a interest in the "scaling down" part of the environment
<bdmurray> Alright, is that all the questions?
<bdmurray> #vote Adamd Stokes for Ubuntu Core Developer
<meetingology> Please vote on: Adamd Stokes for Ubuntu Core Developer
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<xnox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from xnox
<ScottK> +0 #clearly knows a lot, but straight to core-dev is a big jump - I would be more comfortable starting with PPU or maybe server dev.
<meetingology> +0 #clearly knows a lot, but straight to core-dev is a big jump - I would be more comfortable starting with PPU or maybe server dev. received from ScottK
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<Laney> micahg: bdrung
<bdrung_work> i still have to catch up.
<Laney> ok, well no need anyway :-)
<xnox> micahg had tentative +0
<bdmurray> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Adamd Stokes for Ubuntu Core Developer
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<stokachu> sweet!
<stokachu> bdmurray: just noticed Adamd Stokes :)
<Laney> well done ;-)
<arges> congrats
<bdmurray> stokachu: sorry about that typo
<stokachu> bdmurray: its cool man
<stokachu> micahg: ScottK, promise not to let you down :)
<xnox> stokachu: =) congrats.
<stokachu> thanks everyone :)
<bdmurray> Okay, we already handled AOB in the previous meeting ;-) so I guess that's a wrap.
<stokachu> thanks again for your time and restarting the meeting
<stgraber> stokachu: congrats!
<ScottK> stokachu: The main thing is to ask when you're not sure.  Core-dev means you have more ability to break things, it doesn't mean you're expected to know it all.
<stokachu> ScottK: i will definitely do that
<stokachu> stgraber: thanks!
<ScottK> The breaking part or the asking part?
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  7 16:08:42 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-07-15.26.moin.txt
<ScottK> ;-)
<Laney> stokachu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/New
<Laney> might be useful, please add new tips that you come up with
<Laney> bdmurray: now the joy of post meeting tasks
<jose> jdstrand: ping, mind a quick PM?
<jdstrand> jose: I am about to step into a meeting. feel free to privmsg me, I read backscroll
<jose> thanks
<mdeslaur> \o
<chrisccoulson> o/
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  7 16:36:06 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> apparmor ptrace and signal mediation has landed on desktop and server. Touch images have the userspace and should have kernel updates next week. For anyone seeing apparmor denials in distro/click policy, please file bugs
<jdstrand> oxide is now in main and in use on the touch images
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> I will be publishing the openjdk-6 update today
<jdstrand> I'm also working with phonedations on the media-hub landing (apparmor policy updates)
<jdstrand> and will be working on scopes apparmor policy this week
<jdstrand> I have other updates assigned to me that I plan on picking up again
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> just published a couple of updates, and have some more in the PPA to test and release
<mdeslaur> the cve list is growing, so I'll be poking at that too
<mdeslaur> and I'm off on friday
<mdeslaur> that's it for me, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor again this week
<sbeattie> I'm finishing up reviewing the user spaces patches for ptrace signals, to get them landed upstream.
<sbeattie> As well as writing additional test cases for them.
<sbeattie> I know jj made a couple of commits over the weekend, which caused the jenkins builds to fail, so I need to see what's up with that (I suspect a couple of files got missed being added in a commit)
<sbeattie> and I also need to finish making travel arrangements for the upcoming sprint.
<sbeattie> that's it for me
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm currently working on fixing up some lightdm guest session denials
<tyhicks> one is a new denial from the signals/ptrace ffe and the rest are pre-existing denials
<tyhicks> I also need to do a small followup patch, at cboltz's request, around the aa.py test cases that I added
<tyhicks> then I'm going to get caught up on what's been happening around kdbus LSM integration
<tyhicks> I also need to book sprint travel
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jj is out today
<tyhicks> sarnold: that means you're up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week
<sarnold> I believe there is only one outstanding MIR left, glusterfs, to finish up this week
<sarnold> I want to upgrade to trusty before release, it'd be nice to participate in a pre-release circus :)
<sarnold> there's plenty of apparmor patches outstanding, I'd like to review some of those and get them checked in
<tyhicks> +1
<sarnold> and I haven't yet bookde sprint travel, so that'll be this week :)
<sarnold> I think that's me this week, chrisccoulson? :)
<jdstrand> tyhicks: re pre-existing-- I'm not sure you have to fix everything up. I think there are several things that may have been left out on purpose
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<tyhicks> jdstrand: I'll be sure to pass everything by you
<mdeslaur> sarnold: geez, might as well wait an extra couple of weeks and directly upgrade to U :P
<chrisccoulson> right now, i'm fixing bug 1301341
<ubottu> bug 1301341 in webbrowser-app "grooveshark playback has stopped functioning" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301341
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to do another upload of oxide later with some other stuff in (file picker support)
<sarnold> mdeslaur :)
<chrisccoulson> but other than that, i shall be mostly working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/oxide/ ;)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: fyi, oxide got promoted this morning
<chrisccoulson> i've got another update to do this week as well
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, thanks
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gallery2.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libjboss-cache3-java.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jplayer.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/djbdns.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pen.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> I had one question
<jdstrand> someone reported this denial to me in #ubuntu-devel: [13395.573516] type=1400 audit(1396873920.517:120): apparmor="DENIED" operation="file_inherit" profile="/usr/lib/NetworkManager/nm-dhcp-client.action" name="/var/lib/NetworkManager/dhclient-9a71cfcd-ec48-4ea2-9a72-928b504f7429-usb0.lease" pid=1168 comm="nm-dhcp-client." requested_mask="r" denied_mask="r" fsuid=0 ouid=0
<jdstrand> this requred /usr/lib/NetworkManager/nm-dhcp-client.action {} to need a new rule:
<jdstrand> /var/lib/NetworkManager/*lease r,
<jdstrand> someone in the #apparmor channel over the weekend saw something similar
<jdstrand> and then I saw it this morning with my chromium-browser profile
<jdstrand> it is my understanding that this was intentional, related to file delegation and that maybe at some point we want to make this configurable
<jdstrand> I have some concerns that this is turned on atm. I didn't see it in any of the rather significant testing we did over the past weeks
<jdstrand> is this from a new patch to the kernel?
<sbeattie> ah, hrm, I hadn't seen that before either.
<sbeattie> I'm not aware of it being a new patch, but jj is the one to answer that for sure.
<tyhicks> a quick git blame points at "apparmor: revalidate open files at exec time"
<tyhicks> it is one of the last few patches in jj's patch set
<jdstrand> so that is in the kernels we tested
<jdstrand> hmm
<jdstrand> I find it really odd that I didn't see the nm one
<tyhicks> I never saw it, either
<sarnold> iirc this revalidation should only occur when a confined profile hands a fd across an exec to a different domain
<tyhicks> it is due to fd's not being closed (or intentionally being passed) across exec
<tyhicks> so there may be some paths in nm that close the fds and some that don't??
<sarnold> I believe unconfined -> exec -> confined is probably still not validated
<jdstrand> sarnold: right that was my understanding too. nm ships 3 different profiles
<jdstrand> sarnold: that is consistent with what I've seen and what was reported in #apparmor
<sarnold> jdstrand: I -think- the revalidation used to occur at read() time (perhaps 'back in the day') -- this might have moved it forward to exec time to better label fds
<jdstrand> I guess sanitized helper won't be affected cause if its wide file access (/** rwkl,)
<jdstrand> but I worry about evince
<jdstrand> I guess we can just keep an eye on it
<jdstrand> what do other people think?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: I did a `dmesg -C && sudo ./test-evince.py -v && dmesg | grep DENIED` and didn't see any denials
<jdstrand> tyhicks: right, but I think if this occurs it will be less direct than that. eg, firefox opening evince, eveince opening firefox, etc
<tyhicks> jdstrand: firefox opening evince does happen in test-evince.py, but I'm not sure about evince opening firefox
<jdstrand> tyhicks: right, but in that test, firefox isn't confined, is it
<jdstrand> ?
<tyhicks> ah
<tyhicks> probably not
<tyhicks> good point
<jdstrand> well, possibly good point. I don't know if it is a problem or now-- I was just surprised by these denials
<jdstrand> s/now/not/
<tyhicks> yeah, I wasn't looking for delegation denials during my testing
<jdstrand> me either-- I wasn't aware the patchset changed things
<jdstrand> wrt delegation
<jdstrand> well, anyway, I guess we can just keep an eye on it
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
 * sbeattie takes a note to make sure delegation is exercised in the regression tests
<jdstrand> sbeattie: thanks
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  7 17:14:12 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-07-16.36.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thank you!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-04-08
<rbasak> #startmeeting ubuntu-server
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  8 16:01:00 2014 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rbasak>     Serge to drop the arm server item from agenda
<rbasak> Looks like he has. Thanks Serge!
<rbasak> #topic Trusty Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server Meeting | Current topic: Trusty Development
<rbasak> Final freeze is in two days.
<gaughen> o/
<rbasak> Is there anything anyone needs to raise?
<rbasak> I know jamespage has been chasing bug 1295093.
<beisner> o/ hi
<ubottu> bug 1295093 in docker.io (Ubuntu Trusty) "[FFe] Merge docker.io 0.9.1 from Debian unstable" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295093
<rbasak> Any other pieces we need to land?
<rbasak> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<gaughen> my only question is what else needs to get done before GA
<jamespage> rbasak, I have but I can't persuade my normal release team member to review it
<gaughen> smoser, jamespage?
<smoser> o/.
<rbasak> #subtopic Release Bugs
<rbasak> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<gaughen> release notes, server guide - anything else that needs to get done?
<rbasak> Looking at this list, I know that the juju-quickstart MIR is deferred, and I'm preparing the latest upstream for upload today.
<rbasak> This will fix bug 1301464 and bug 1301481
<ubottu> bug 1301464 in juju-quickstart (Ubuntu) "The mega-watcher for machines does not include containers addresses" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301464
<ubottu> bug 1301481 in juju-quickstart (Ubuntu Trusty) "juju-quickstart will be broken in Trusty after juju-core updates in its stable PPA" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301481
<rbasak> Any other comments on the release tracking bugs? How's icehouse looking?
<coreycb> o/
<rbasak> #subtopic Blueprints
<rbasak> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-servercloud-overview.html
<rbasak> Probably time to start closing off work items and postponing them if needed.
<rbasak> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<rbasak> caribou: you're up!
<caribou> some last minute fixes to sosreport to report, that's all
<rharper> o/
<rbasak> Thanks caribou!
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<rbasak> psivaa: hello!
<psivaa> rbasak: nothing much to update from us this week
<psivaa> tests are 100% in smoke
<rbasak> OK. Thanks psivaa!
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Frantically working on some polishing for Xen and libvirt. Apart from that I have not more myself. Anything from your side?
<rbasak> Does anyone have anything for smb?
<rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<rbasak> Any new events to report?
 * rbasak isn't aware of any
<rbasak> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rbasak> Does anyone have anything else to raise?
<rbasak> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<rbasak> The next meeting will be at: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 16:00:00 +0000
<rbasak> smoser: you're next up to chair.
<smoser> thanks rbasak
<rbasak> Thanks all!
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  8 16:11:09 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-08-16.01.moin.txt
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  8 17:00:27 2014 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Trusty
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<bjf> o/
<rtg> o/
<henrix> o/
<ppisati> o/
<chiluk> o/
<cking> \o
<smb> o7
<ogasawara> o/
<kamal> o/
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> T/master-next: LP1303657 ("Cannot boot trusty kernel on qemu-system-arm") - we
<ppisati> were missing the correct dtb (wasn't necessary in S) and qemu was waiting for a
<ppisati> console over jtag (HVC_DCC) that would never show up - waiting for a
<ppisati> confirmation from the reporter before sending the patches.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || core-1311-kernel                      || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-cross-compilation           || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-hwe-plans                   || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || core-1403-hwe-stack-eol-notifications || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-1311-openstack-virt       || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We entered into Kernel Freeze for Trusty last Thurs and have uploaded
<ogasawara> what we intend to be the final kernel for Trusty, 3.13.0-23.45.  All
<ogasawara> patches from here on out are subject to our Ubuntu SRU policy and only
<ogasawara> critical bug fixes will warrant an upload before release next week.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 17 - Ubuntu 14.04 Final Release (~1 week away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Saucy/Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Saucy/Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Mar. 25):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   *   Saucy - Verification and Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 30-Mar through 26-Apr
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          28-Mar   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 30-Mar - 05-Apr   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 06-Apr - 12-Apr   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf>          17-Apr   14.04 Released
<bjf> 13-Apr - 26-Apr   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  8 17:04:15 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-08-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury!
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-04-10
<xzavierdev> does anyone update ubuntu 13.10 to 14.04 successful?
<bdmurray> xzavierdev: yes, but this is the incorrect channel to discuss it. please try #ubuntu-bugs.
<xzavierdev> ok,thanks
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<caribou> o/
 * stgraber waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 10 15:04:09 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<xnox> o/
<mvo> hi, sorry for being late
<slangasek> 'sok, we're only just getting started
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity mvo)
<slangasek> xnox stgraber bdmurray doko jodh cjwatson mvo slangasek barry caribou infinity
<xnox> hm?!
<xnox> ok.
<doko> I assume barry is walking around in the conference center
<xnox> * upstart:
<xnox>   - worked on cgroups - good progress, still a few state transitions
<xnox>     left, moving post-release
<xnox>   - still to upload staged minor fixes in upstart packaging branch
<xnox>     with reload fix
<xnox> * ubiquity/installer:
<xnox>   - dropped u1 + fixed AP tests fall-out
<xnox>   - resolved missing/wrong backgrounds on xubuntu/studio
<xnox>   - resolved missing overlay scrollbars in ubiquity live session (to upload)
<xnox>   - resolved "ubiquity is too wide" a little more (to upload)
<xnox>   - with cking/apw found missing block device kernel modules in udebs (uploaded)
<xnox> * revert ubuntu-sso-client to unbreak software-center
<xnox> * reviewed pre-release website, sent of a list of bugs/typos.
<xnox> * migrating remaining clicks to python3, will send status email later
<xnox>   today to ubuntu-phone m.l.
<xnox> todo:
<xnox>   * bug #1303815
<xnox>   * bug #1301720
<ubottu> bug 1303815 in plymouth (Ubuntu Trusty) "cloud image boot produces unnecessary output" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303815
<ubottu> bug 1301720 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "[Text Entry] Missing English input in Simplified and Traditional Chinese default enviroment" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301720
<xnox> next week working in the office
<slangasek> doko: is he doing laps?
<xnox> ..
<doko> enoclue
<stgraber>  - cgmanager
<stgraber>    - Updated our website to be vaguely more useful:
<stgraber>      https://cgmanager.linuxcontainers.org
<stgraber>    - Debugging a few bugs that showed up after we turned cgmanager support in
<stgraber>      logind.
<stgraber>    - Fixed a bunch of upstart jobs issues discovered by Touch during stress
<stgraber>      test, fixed that and got my Nexus4 to boot succesfuly around 400 times in
<stgraber>      a row.
<stgraber>    - Still debugging one of those now (logind using 100% of CPU...)
<stgraber>  - LXC
<stgraber>    - Several updates to our apparmor profiles to support the new apparmor
<stgraber>      version and workaround new parser bugs.
<stgraber>    - Fixes to some of our tests.
<stgraber>    - Integrated our PPA and Coverity uploads into the Jenkins jobs, now our
<stgraber>      whole build and test infrastructure has been moved to
<stgraber>      https://jenkins.linuxcontainers.org
<stgraber>    - Usual code review
<stgraber>    - Sent the formal micro-conference proposal for Plumbers 2014
<stgraber>    - Followed up on the LXC sprint at LinuxCon NA 2014
<stgraber>    - Tagged, released and uploaded LXC 1.0.3
<stgraber>  - Network
<stgraber>    - Upgrade fixes for ifupdown and isc-dhcp.
<stgraber>  - Other
<stgraber>    - Tracked down and fixed a couple of sssd issues.
<stgraber>    - Queue reviews and last minute FFes.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Will be sligthly harder to reach this afternoon as I'll be working from the
<stgraber> Montreal office to catch up with doko and barry.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<slangasek> xnox: oh yay, so all the clicks are python3-ready now?
<bdmurray> errors: research into cassandra database space saving mechanisms
<bdmurray> errors: worked on not writing ProcMaps for python tracebacks and removing it for crashes with a dupe sig
<bdmurray> errors: submitted RT #69068 regarding cassandra database stats missing
<bdmurray> foundations bug triage
<bdmurray> recreated and research into fixing whoopsie bug 1261096
<bdmurray> tested laney's fix for bug 1261096
<bdmurray> tested and discovered why bug 1300465 is invalid
<ubottu> bug 1261096 in activity-log-manager (Ubuntu) "whoopsie-preferences respawns whoopsie in an infinite loop" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261096
<ubottu> bug 1300465 in python-apt (Ubuntu) "description dialog is empty" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300465
<bdmurray> research into bug 1277706 and cleanup of its duplicates
<bdmurray> investigation into update-manager bug 1164558
<bdmurray> worked on a fix for bug 1302380
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader code reviews for mvo
<ubottu> bug 1277706 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "ubiquity in precise-updates, doesn't have tight enough dependency on python-apt leading to crashers" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277706
<ubottu> bug 1164558 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Not able to use updater: "You are not allowed to perform this action"" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1164558
<ubottu> bug 1302380 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "package installation failure during partial upgrade reports crash against ubuntu-release-upgrader" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302380
<bdmurray> proposed a merge for unattended-upgrades that adds an apport package hook
<bdmurray> SRU verification of bug 1286161
<ubottu> bug 1286161 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Trusty) "13.10 -> 14.04 upgrade failed: initramfs failed to ugprade, udev is not configured yet" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286161
<bdmurray> sru review of a couple of packages for OEM priority bug reports
<bdmurray> posted Ubuntu DMB meeting results
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> holiday(s): 2
<doko> - ruby1.8 removal
<doko> - GCC updates, bringen armhf and arm64 regression fixes, and updated towards the 4.8.2 and 4.9.0 releases
<doko> - openjdk-7 arm64 fixes
<doko> - some random ftbfs fixes
<doko> - ppc64el fixes
<doko> - job interviews
<doko> - PyCon
<doko> (done)
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
<jodh>   - cgroup support:
<jodh>     - Virtual upstart cgroups sprint with xnox on Friday. Productive but
<jodh>       highlighted a limitation of the current branch.
<jodh>     - Feature won't now land in trusty (postponed).
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - Reviewed and merged lp:~xnox/upstart/lp1303891.
<jodh>   - Reviewed and merged lp:~xnox/upstart/no-python.in.
<jodh>   - Updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/TechnicalOverviewUpstart.
<jodh>   - Investigating Upstart SEGV issue. Maybe be related to fix for bug
<jodh>     1222705.
<jodh>   - Updated upstart-events(7).
<jodh> * other:
<jodh>   - Short week as out Monday and Tuesday.
<jodh> ê©
<cjwatson> Updated germinate and tasksel for trusty.
<cjwatson> Finished porting GHC to arm64.
<cjwatson> user-setup tweaks (bug 1304008, bug 1069684).
<cjwatson> Fixed putty assertion failure (bug 1289176).
<cjwatson> Educated installer on copying xattrs (bug 1302192).
<cjwatson> Applied grub-installer patch to fall back to grub-pc if ESP is missing (bug 1302418).
<ubottu> bug 1304008 in user-setup (Ubuntu) "user not added to libvirtd group with iso trusty 'virtual machine host' installation method" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304008
<cjwatson> Cleaned out a good deal of cruft from ubiquity.
<ubottu> bug 1069684 in user-setup (Ubuntu) "installer let us choose a system user as our primary user account, without warning" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1069684
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1289176 could not be found
<cjwatson> Started working through various removals, component-mismatches cleanup, etc. in an effort to get this all clear by release.
<ubottu> bug 1302192 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "capabilities not preserved on installation" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302192
<ubottu> bug 1302418 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Trusty) "grub-installer should fall back to grub-pc instead of grub-efi when there is no EFI system partition" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302418
<cjwatson> Updated translations in a few places.
<cjwatson> Lots of queue reviews.
<cjwatson> Still trying to figure out what's up with GRUB and LVM snapshots.
<cjwatson> ..
<slangasek> mvo: you're up\
<mvo> release bugfixing
<mvo> apt: cherry pick fixes,  Bug#743413, add src package cachedb
<mvo> debug/fix JDK removal with latest apt #1302736, add test for apt-ftparchive --db sources, debug/fix missing ^rc pkgs in apt list (mvo/bugfix/apt-list-rc-pkgs),
<mvo> gdebi: review/merge/upload https://code.launchpad.net/~barry/gdebi/lp1301422/+merge/214257, debug/fix #1304657 and add regression test mvo/bugfix/lp1304657-perms, apt: debug  #1304403 (libkrb-srv-mit8 upgrade issue), debug/fix spurious test failure caused by a race condition in the tests, upload 1.0.1ubuntu1
<mvo> update-manager: look at #1301776
<mvo> unattended-upgrades: debug cache broken error, debug/fix #743594
<mvo> release-upgrader: debug #1294124, fix demotion display, upload new version, pgrade test #1298281,  fix release upgrade prompting from "normal" to "lts",  lp:~mvo/ubuntu-release-upgrader/text-install-progress,  debug/fix #1304365 (wayland upgrade bug), improve apt.log, fix crash in DistUpgradeViewText, remove gnome-session special handling, debug/fix #1304403
<mvo> update-manager: upload fix for #1164558
<mvo> libc6: debug regression in desktop upgrade mode (#1298281)
<mvo> (done)
<mvo> the report is not well organized sorry for that
<mvo> next
 * mvo will do better next time
<mvo> next is slangasek I think :)
<slangasek> mvo: clearly you are spending too much time fixing bugs and not enough time writing reports about it
<slangasek>  * end-of-cycle package uploads for ppc64el enablement
<slangasek>  * generate a netboot directory for ppc64el from d-i, so it's sane to netboot without having to set everything up yourself
<slangasek>  * interviewing for Java role
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek>  * Tech Board discussions about Ubuntu Kylin archive
<slangasek>  * various freeze reviews
<slangasek> no barry
<slangasek> caribou:
<caribou> * openstack debugging
<caribou> * sosreport development for trusty
<caribou> done
<infinity> * continued to enjoy being a tourist in meetings
<infinity> (done)
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> any questions above?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Trusty release freeze
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Trusty release freeze
<slangasek> final freeze is in, um, some small number of hours
<slangasek> is there anything pending that we should talk about before we get there?
<infinity> 6
<infinity> hours, not uploads.
<slangasek> (that maybe you're desperately working on right now to get in before the deadline, and it might be helpful to give your friends in the release team a heads-up that it's on its way)
<infinity> I'm going to lob a glibc at the archive soon.  Was just waiting on final word from Adhemerval that he has no last-minute ppc fixes for me.
<cjwatson> I have the GRUB LVM snapshot fix, think I have something plausible now
<stgraber> we'll probably have a cgmanager fix
<xnox> ubiquity... upstart...
<mvo> it might be nice to get one software-center upload to get 2 common errors.ubuntu.com issues off the table but I'm not sure who is doing this these days
<cjwatson> (Now that I've worked out that it isn't actually a problem in the core C code at all, but a grub-mkconfig scripting bug)
<slangasek> ok, so nothing major anywhere then ;)
<slangasek> just grub ubiquity upstart cgmanager and glibc
<infinity> Nah, business as usual.
<stgraber> there's a somewhat rare condition where logind will get stuck and use 100% of your CPU, hallyn is looking into that now and managed to reproduce it a couple minutes ago
<infinity> No one needs those packages.
<cjwatson> slangasek: what did you expect from this team, fluffy desktop stuff? :)
<xnox> mvo: software-center -> we've been just uploading it with $ debsign & dput so far.
<slangasek> stgraber: sounds like a clear bugfix that would qualify during final freeze, provided that we figure it out
<mvo> xnox: thanks
<doko> have two fixes pending: fixing the python3.4 ftbfs on aarch64,  and landing the python3.4 ensurepip fix (which I'll look at with barry today)
<xnox> mvo: you can poke Rodney Dawes about it (e.g. reviews / uploads) or just upload.
<slangasek> cjwatson: no, the fluffy is for the cloud server
<doko> preferring to fix the ftbfs on aarch64 with the just uploaded binutils
<stgraber> slangasek: yeah, all we know for know is that in some cases we get stuck in a loop of EAGAIN inside the nih auto-generated code, hopefully it's just caused by an actual bug in cgmanager's dbus service and not by a bug in the code generator :)
<doko> did the release team discuss icedtea-web?
<doko> and I assume it's a bit late for the valgrind update ...
<cjwatson> I think everyone's scared off by the diff, but nobody has rejected it yet
<doko> valgrind is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/valgrind/+bug/1300070
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1300070 in valgrind (Ubuntu Trusty) "valgrind 3.10/trunk update to support AArch64" [Undecided,New]
<slangasek> doko: I didn't see any discussion, I think it's been suffering from queue starvation for a lot of other stuff coming through hot.  Did you get the valgrind testing from the phone folks?
<slangasek> (if you're waiting for the release team to drive that, it probably won't get done in time)
<doko> have to check with tvoss ...
<slangasek> ok
<doko> hmm, maybe a bad time to discuss with him ...
<slangasek> doko: nah, he's /back/ to work now
<slangasek> AIUI
<infinity> That was a quick parental leave.
<slangasek> well, ICBW
<slangasek> and other acronyms
<slangasek> so yeah, maybe you do want someone other than tvoss.  kgunn?
<infinity> InterContinental Ballistic Weasels?
<slangasek> infinity: wessels
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else, besides uploading half the base system 5h before freeze?
<infinity> We could do the other half too.
<stgraber> 5h is way too optimistic, I expect most of those to be uploaded within an hour of the freeze ;)
 * slangasek gets an ulcer
<infinity> Slightly more seriously, if people have good ideas (markety or buggy) for the release notes, it's a wiki, go add crap.  I can always delete if we have too much, but no one likes panicing to write it all on Thursday morning.
<doko> no more planned openjdk and gcc uploads today
<infinity> doko: I like the "today" qualifier on that.
<slangasek> doko: oh, just the unplanned ones
<xnox> infinity: did you just stage wiki page dead-lock?! =)
<infinity> xnox: No, because no one will do it.
 * slangasek turns and points at everyone else in the channel
<slangasek> do we have a list of release-notey bugs to work from, this cycle?
<infinity> Don't know if people have been adding tasks.
 * xnox was doing random searches of high/critical and things targeted at trusty milestones. it's not much
<doko> damn, you did catch both "unplanned" and "today" ...
<infinity> There's always the ISO tracker bugs, but I'd like to think we'll fix the worst ones and pretend the rest don't exist because we're awesome.
<stgraber> I don't think we've been particularly good at targeting + tagging bugs this cycle
<xnox> the "rls-management" report is not very useful either.
<slangasek> xnox: there's an ubuntu-release-notes project
<slangasek> if things should be release noted, and you don't have time to write the blurb, please target a task there
<slangasek> and if you do have time to write the blurb, look there for things that might need writing :)
<xnox> they look old...
<slangasek> xnox: old ones ought to be wontfixed
<bdmurray> xnox: which rls-management report?
<slangasek> we're not realistically going to update the saucy release notes now
<xnox> bdmurray: rls-tracking/notracking/wontfixing
<xnox> bdmurray: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<infinity> To be fair, we've tended in the past to be a bit too liberal in our release noteyness.  If it doesn't cause people installation/upgrade headaches or other such nastiness, it's just a bug, not a bug worth telling every single person about.
<slangasek> infinity: I disagree; major bugs that are going to be FAQs if we don't document them are worth including
<slangasek> not just bugs specifically related to installation and upgrade
<infinity> slangasek: That falls under "other nastiness", I suspect.  It's a judgement call.
<slangasek> (and it's not really telling "everyone", just the .3% of users who read the release notes ;)
<infinity> slangasek: But there were people in the past that felt that anything with a release-notes task or a tracker link was release note worthy just cause. ;)
<slangasek> right, Judgement must be Exercised
<infinity> Oh joy.  A glibc regression on (only) power8 that I now need to sort out if I just introduced or if it's always been there but I've never run the testsuit on P8 before.
<slangasek> infinity: enjoy
<infinity> (Betting the latter)
<xnox> slangasek: i wonder if both firefox and thunderbird need uploading. Firefox - because of nbs dependency & Thunderbird to drop U1 from sendit plugin.
<xnox> unless both things are in the works.
<infinity> xnox: I'm on firefox already.
<slangasek> xnox: AIUI dropping the thunderbird plugin was not strictly required
<slangasek> infinity: why is that not for the desktop team to take care of?
<infinity> xnox: I've had the fix committed for weeks, but now that we're past the point of no return for Chris uploading new versions (ie: I won't let him), I'll take care of it. :P
<infinity> slangasek: Well, like I said, I committed the fix to bzr weeks ago.
<infinity> slangasek: Under the assumption that it would magically land in Chris's next upload.  And there wasn't one. :)
<xnox> infinity: which branches are used for thunderbird/firefox? (i lost track of the thunderbird patch)
<xnox> slangasek: ack.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> so, enough talk, back to action :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 10 15:42:25 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-10-15.04.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<infinity> xnox: debian/control tends to be (close to) accurate for ffox.  No idea about tbird.
<stgraber> thanks!
<caribou> thanks
<jodh> thanks!
<infinity> *wave*
<stgraber> doko: leaving now, should be at the office in the next 15min, see you there!
<mvo> thanks
<doko> xnox, if you track the firefox upload, please see that http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html gets addressed ...
<xnox> doko: as per above, infinity already has firefox change ready for exactly that.
<doko> ahh, ok
<xnox> doko: otherwise i couldn't care less about firefox =) i don't use it.
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-04-06
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks> hello!
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  6 16:45:07 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
 * sbeattie o/
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Thanks to Johan Van de Wauw (johanvdw) for security updates (14.04 through Vivid) for the community supported postgis (LP: #1438875) package last week. Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1438875 in postgis (Ubuntu Vivid) "Database crash with invalid geoJSON input" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1438875
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> like last week, this week is snappy focused
<jdstrand> the security yaml bits landed last week for both apparmor and snappy and now I am writing review tools tests for that
<jdstrand> the framework policy bits landed last week for apparmor and is in review now for snappy. I wrote the review tools tests for that last week
<jdstrand> after I finish the security yaml review tools tests, I'm going to proceed to the hashes.yaml review tools tests
<jdstrand> I started the seccomp policy bits last week and will pick that up this week
<jdstrand> that's it from me
 * sbeattie is up
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week.
<sbeattie> I have some more apparmor patches to review as well as trying to tie things up so we can do a trusty SRU with the python tools based on a 2.9.2 release
<sbeattie> And gcc-pie testing is still on my plate.
<tyhicks> perfect
<sbeattie> that's the priorities for my week. tyhicks, you're up.
<tyhicks> we need to get that trusty SRU out the door very soon
<sbeattie> yeah
<tyhicks> it is good to hear that we're getting close :)
<tyhicks> I'm on bug triage this week
<tyhicks> Vivid systemd/sbuild/schroot/kernel bugs (LP: #1427264) (LP: #1438942) (LP: #1439849)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1427264 in click (Ubuntu) "using ecryptfs, creating frameworks fail to bind mount issues" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1427264
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1438942 in schroot (Ubuntu) "Host's /dev/shm is mounted over when entering 14.10 and older sbuild schroots" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1438942
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1439849 in linux (Ubuntu) "BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at 0000000000000010" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1439849
<tyhicks> Restart work on AppArmor kernel keyring mediation for user data encryption
<tyhicks> Finish up the patches to fix bug #1430532 and send them out for review
<ubottu> bug 1430532 in AppArmor "libapparmor needs a public function to break a context into a label and mode" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430532
<tyhicks> and either sarnold or myself need to get to the python-cryptography MIR (LP: #1430082)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1430082 in python-cryptography (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-cryptography, python-cffi, pycparser, enum34" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430082
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> I'm on cve triage this week
<sarnold> I finally feel like I'm getting the hang of the serverstack environment for openstack testing, too, which is nice; some things can be done via yaml and some things probably just need to be done via juju ssh --all
<sarnold> of course I still don't know why installing some new python glance libraries prevents new glance image uploads; the changes involved are about validating certificates, so perhaps it's supposed to fail now..
<sarnold> and since test runs there take either ten minutes or an hour and ten minutes, there'll be some time for small tasks, perhaps a MIR or apparmor patch review
<sarnold> that's it for me, tyhicks?
<tyhicks> sarnold: how about bumping the version of the current in-archive glance, without making any other changes, and seeing if glance image uploads work then?
<tyhicks> we can continue the conversation offline
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lib3ds.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libextlib-ruby.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openarena.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xmonad-contrib.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lemonldap-ng.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, sbeattie, sarnold: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  6 17:00:35 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-04-06-16.45.moin.txt
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks! :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-04-07
<JHOSMAN> Good morning mhall119
<mhall119> JHOSMAN: good morning, your request was approved, you should get an email today
<JHOSMAN> mhall119: Excelent! :D
<JHOSMAN> excellent, you tell me that I can forward to you to arrange sponsorship money? mhall119
<JHOSMAN>  The event is in 11 days.
<mhall119> JHOSMAN: like I said, you should get an email from msm who will coordinate that with you
<JHOSMAN> mhall119: Fine, then I'll wait notification from you, on the other hand we talked about that if they wish they could put a big banner of Ubuntu but we talked about two options, the first being that you send us a banner and come back by return mail the second (more economical for you and us) is print here in Colombia and that stay here (this cost would be borne by you. (canonical)
<coreycb> o/
<coreycb> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  7 16:00:17 2015 UTC.  The chair is coreycb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<beisner> o/
<rharper> o/
<matsubara> o/
<caribou> o/
<smb> o/
<strikov> o/
<coreycb> Hello everone and welcome to the weekly ubuntu-server meeting
<coreycb> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<coreycb> there was one action item from last week - James Page to provide feedback on bugs 1425288 and 1425128
<ubottu> bug 1425128 in linux (Ubuntu Trusty) "bcache causes task hang with 3.13 kernel" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425128
<ubottu> bug 1425288 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel NULL pointer dereference during bcache cache_set_flush call" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425288
<smb> I do not recall any updates there
<coreycb> ok smb, and jamespage is likely busy as he is sprinting
<coreycb> I'll keep this one as an action
<coreycb> #action James Page to provide feedback on bugs 1425288 and 1425128
<meetingology> ACTION: James Page to provide feedback on bugs 1425288 and 1425128
<smb> ok, though so will I next week (sprinting) ;)
<coreycb> sigh
<coreycb> #topic Vivid Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Vivid Development
<coreycb> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<coreycb> we're past final beta freeze  and the next milestone is kernel freeze on April 9th.  final freeze is April 16th.  release of 15.04 is April 23rd.
<coreycb> #subtopic Release Bugs
<coreycb> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-v-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<coreycb> no new bugs since last week
<coreycb> dannf, anything new on 1427406?
<coreycb> smoser, anything new on 1427275?
<coreycb> juju team is actively working on 1409639
<coreycb> and looks like utlemming is actively working on 1409639
<coreycb> ok let's move on
<coreycb> #subtopic Blueprints
<coreycb> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-v/group/topic-v-server.html
<coreycb> this should be a bit greener at this point in the cycle so please update your progress
<coreycb> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-v-server
<coreycb> and we should likely start deferring things soon
<coreycb> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> coreycb: nothing particular this week, thanks
<coreycb> thanks caribou
<coreycb> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<matsubara> Nothing new to report. Most of the smoke tests are still failing and I'm not doing a very good job at babysitting them
<coreycb> matsubara, ok, thanks and good luck with those
<coreycb> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Nothing specific this week. Just repeating as a reminder that UE is sprinting next week, so there is a high chance I might miss next weeks irc meeting (and probably same for arges and sforshee )
<coreycb> smb, ok thanks for the update
<coreycb> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<coreycb> any events going on?  I know there are a few sprints going on.
<coreycb> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<coreycb> does anyone have anything else they'd like to cover?
<coreycb> thanks everyone for attending
<coreycb> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<beisner> thx coreycb
<caribou> thanks coreycb
<dannf> coreycb: i provided a patch
<coreycb> Tues April 14th 16:00 UTC
<dannf> coreycb: in that bug
<coreycb> dannf, ah ok
<dannf> coreycb: still blocked on the mariadb side
<dannf> coreycb: but as for mysql, i'm considering it done from my pov unless someone asks for something
<coreycb> dannf, ok do you need anything from the server team?
<dannf> coreycb: review/upload i guess :)
<dannf> and testing on non-arm64, if you have tests to run
<coreycb> rbasak, can you handle that?
<dannf> (and happy to help where i can, not trying to throw it over the wall... completely) :)
<coreycb> dannf, I'll add an action for rbasak since he had asked for a patch in that bug
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> dannf: I thought the patch wasn't ready to upload to Ubuntu yet?
<rbasak> If so, I don't feel I have any action I can take here.
<rbasak> I'd prefer to see the patch adopted upstream - then we can certainly update or cherry-pick it.
<dannf> rbasak: i'd like upstream to ack it, but they haven't. it's definitely *better* on arm64 than the current version, but i don't have regression tests for other archs
<rbasak> We can't risk regression on other archs
<strikov> dannf: do you mean the whole series of patches or just the last one which adds aarch64 to power-related ifdefs?
<dannf> strikov: entire series
<dannf> rbasak: right - and is there a way we can regression test other archs in house?
<rbasak> Beyond the standard test suite? Not that I'm aware of.
<rbasak> But this kind of fix strikes me as the type that standard regression tests won't catch.
<rbasak> I guess what I'm expecting is someone to go deep and verify, in whatever way necessary, to a reasonable level that there won't be a regression on another arch.
<coreycb> thanks for the discussion guys.  I"m going to end the meeting.  I assume you can continue the discussion offline if needed.
<rbasak> OK, that's fair. Thanks coreycb.
<coreycb> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  7 16:26:59 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-04-07-16.00.moin.txt
<dannf> rbasak: yeah, and I don't think I'm capable of that - so i guess that means blocked-on-upstream-acceptance?
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  7 17:00:17 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Vivid
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<arges> o/
<henrix> o/
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<kamal> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<rtg> o/
<sforshee> o/
<smb> \o
<cking> o/
<bjf> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Our Vivid kernel remains based on the upstream v3.19.3 stable kernel.
<ogasawara> Vivid kernel freeze is this Thurs Apr 9.  We are still chasing down some
<ogasawara> recent regressions, but we intend to prepare and upload our proposed
<ogasawara> final kernel for Vivid no later than tomorrow Wed Apr 8.  If you have
<ogasawara> any patches which need to land for 15.04's release, please let us know
<ogasawara> and get them submitted to the list now.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 09 - Kernel Freeze (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 23 - 15.04 Release (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   *   Lucid - None (no update)
<bjf>   * Precise - Testing & Verification
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Testing & Verification
<bjf>   *  Utopic - Testing & Verification
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current cycle: 20-Mar through 11-Apr
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          20-Mar   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 22-Mar - 28-Mar   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 29-Mar - 11-Apr   Bug verification; Regression testing; Release
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> NOTE: Lucid goes EOL on April 30.
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  7 17:02:56 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-04-07-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<dkessel> hey costales: good job on anoise! i enjoy it :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-04-08
<JHOSMAN> mhall119: Hello, I stated that I did not get the mail yesterday.
<mhall119> JHOSMAN: ok, I'll check what happened. Monday was a holiday in the UK, that might be why
<JHOSMAN> mhall119:  When I receive mail? Yesterday was Tuesday. Already missing 10 days for the event and we must make the process of withdrawing money to send to manufacture the shirts and make all necessary purchases. You think you can help us with this?
<mhall119> JHOSMAN: I'm checking for you
<JHOSMAN> mhall119: Thanks!
<mhall119> JHOSMAN: you should have an email now
<JHOSMAN> mhall119:  =) Thanks!
<mhall119> no problem
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-04-09
<cyphermox>  o/
<infinity> \o
<mvo> hi
<chiluk> o/
<sil2100> o/
<robru> morning
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  9 15:02:46 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity mvo sil2100 robru cyphermox)
<slangasek> infinity: hi dere
<slangasek> infinity bdmurray sil2100 stgraber barry robru caribou cyphermox jodh doko mvo slangasek
<infinity> - Kernel SRU releases
<infinity> - General SRU/AA work
<infinity> - Lots of vivid queue reviews
<infinity> - Fixed docker 1.5 on arm64
<infinity> - Sorted systemd sysv compat bug in Debian and Ubuntu
<infinity> - Worked with benh on rescuing postal (ongoing)
<infinity> - Merged some bugfixes from Debian (lshw, kmod)
<infinity> - Sorted some transitions
<infinity> - Started work on backlog of ppc64el bugs
<infinity> (done)
<mvo> bdmurray is on vac iirc(?)
<slangasek> correct
<slangasek> sil2100:
<sil2100> ok
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Documenting the ongoing OTA-3 milestone
<sil2100> - Moar CI Train spreadsheet issues
<sil2100>   * Futile dealing with the aftermath
<sil2100>   * Filling an official google support case, pushing that forward
<sil2100>   * Disabling more scripts - no change
<sil2100> - RTM status meeting and discussions
<sil2100> - RTM - vivid archive delta:
<sil2100>   * Making the script more verbose and configurable
<sil2100> - Dealing with multiple OTA-3 issues, discussing schedule
<sil2100> - Analyzing the possible ways to proceed with the new RTM branching and vivid+1
<sil2100> - Preparing the release process presentation for OSD in Poland
<sil2100> - Holidays and some other stuff I forgot
<sil2100> (done)
<stgraber>  - LXC/LXD
<stgraber>    - Released LXD 0.6 on Tuesday, uploaded to archive, PPAs, ...
<stgraber>    - Reworking our PPA layout to have builds for all git branches + stable releases + lts releases
<stgraber>    - Got all the test failures for lxc, lxcfs and cgmanager sorted out in vivid
<stgraber>    - Various bugfixes and feature work on LXC and LXD
<stgraber>    - Preparing a bunch of talks for various conferences
<stgraber>    - Code reviews, bug triaging, other admin paperwork
<stgraber>  - Other
<stgraber>    - queuebot fix
<stgraber>    - system-image discussion with barry + code reviews
<stgraber>    - vivid queue reviews
<stgraber>    - Some more work on a security fix.
<stgraber> (done)
<slangasek> barry is at PyCon this week, presumably not attending the meeting
<slangasek> robru:
<robru> * short week due to easter
<robru> * lots of struggles / failed iterations with CI Engine
<robru> * lots of struggles with juju breaking due to systemd transition in vivid (and several failed attempts at using juju 1.23 beta which claims to fix this)
<robru> (done)
<slangasek> robru: so is that still failing for you?
<slangasek> caribou:
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou>  - rsyslog memory leak on Trusty : Not more than ~60Mb leak identified
<caribou>  - Endless openafs dkms fix backport II
<caribou>   * Setup test environment to verify precise backport
<caribou>  - Cherry-picked commit to fix makedumpfile segfaults (LP: #1441042)
<slangasek> "not more than 60MB"? :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1441042 in makedumpfile (Ubuntu Trusty) "makedumpfile fails with segfault" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441042
<caribou> (done)
<cyphermox>  * bug 1428005 (grub2 arp packets, with infinity's help)
<cyphermox>  * more time spent on plymouth/casper input handling issue
<cyphermox>  * investigation on bug 1418706; UEFI blank drive detection
<ubottu> bug 1428005 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "ISST-LTE: Ubuntu15.04 installation fails with Shiner network Adapter" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1428005
<ubottu> bug 1418706 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Vivid: UEFI: blank drive incorrectly detected as existing BIOS-mode install" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1418706
<caribou> slangasek: I had people claiming for much more than that
<cyphermox>  * network-manager-applet and NM code reviews.
<cyphermox>  * review/testing more multipath patches: 1436020, 1429327, 1441930.
<cyphermox>  * trying to reduce the AP list pruning timeout (bug 1425172)
<ubottu> bug 1425172 in Canonical System Image "Network indicator lists the non-exist AP (timeout for the AP to be removed is too big, ~6min)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425172
<slangasek> "Your logger only leaks 96 IBM PCs-worth"
<cyphermox>    - will need moar testing.
<cyphermox>    - indicator-network might have to do more pruning using last-seen.
<cyphermox>  * NM routing issue on the phone on wifi -> 3G transition (bug 1436427)
<ubottu> bug 1436427 in network-manager (Ubuntu RTM) "Turning off WiFi doesn't set a route after the modem connects data" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436427
<cyphermox> (done)
<robru> slangasek: well juju-local is totally busted, yes. bootstack works but that s-i charm is not actually deployable.
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - Short week as out Friday+Monday.
<jodh> * snappy:
<jodh>   - lp:~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/vivid/ubuntu-core-upgrader/handle-invalid-removed-file
<jodh>     - Finished test rework.
<jodh>   - lp:~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/vivid/ubuntu-core-upgrader/implement-format-command:
<jodh>     - Wrote tests and raised MP (merged).
<jodh>   - lp:~jamesodhunt/snappy/suppress-progress-if-no-terminal:
<jodh>     - Branch to address bug 1438889.
<ubottu> bug 1438889 in snappy-ubuntu "unhelpful syslog entries" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1438889
<jodh>   - Bit of investigation into bug 1438420.
<ubottu> bug 1438420 in snappy-ubuntu "snappy install --allow-unauthenticated changes ownership of snap" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1438420
<jodh> Äµ
<mvo> doko is at pycon too I gues
<mvo> Short week due to easter vacation.
<mvo> apt:
<mvo> - Debug/fix crash #1436626
<mvo> aptdaemon:
<mvo> - Review/merge/upload fix for #1436725
<mvo> update-manager:
<slangasek> yes
<mvo> - Drive-by fix/SRU for #1441157
<mvo> snappy:
<mvo> - some debsigs work
<mvo> - various fixes for the upcoming image promotion
<mvo> - upload snappy dependencies into main archive
<mvo> - fix device tarball generation for armhf/BBB
<mvo> misc:
<mvo> - travel preparing (e.g. new passport)
<mvo> (done)
<doko> - start vivid test rebuilds (normal and using GCC 5)
<doko> - investigate and file GCC 5 issues found in the test rebuild
<doko> - investigate remaining python3 issues for the desktop images, fix some issues
<doko> - two bank holidays, travelling to PyCon, Python Language Summit
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> oh, hi doko :)
 * barry waves too
<slangasek> barry: hi! any status update for you?
<barry> a little...
<barry> mostly pyconning (language summit chair, etc)
<barry> also last week
<barry> https://code.launchpad.net/~barry/ubuntu-system-image/server-si30-configd
<barry> that's a mp for si 3.0 support in the server, awaiting review
<barry> once that lands, we can start getting si 3.0 client in the train
<barry> --done--
<stgraber> I'll try to do a round of reviews today or tomorrow
<mvo> barry: nice to see this landing!
<slangasek> barry: ok. so you are still aiming to land s-i 3.0 before vivid release?
<barry> stgraber: awesome, thanks.  not that i'll have much time to follow up this week, but much appreciated!
<mvo> stgraber: could you ping me once that is ready on the server? we need to move snappy to this asap
<barry> slangasek: maybe ;)
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek>  * Debugging of systemd never booting to console login if a configured network interface doesn't come up (bug #1325376)
<ubottu> bug 1325376 in Stratagus "Trying to add code for disabled graphics." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1325376
<slangasek>   * pitti fixed the systemd issues; cloud-init package currently in the queue
<slangasek>  * snappy -proposed -> devel image promotion planned for this week (in progress)
<slangasek>  * discussions around landing spreadsheet replacement, in the face of recurring outages
<slangasek>  * working towards getting a supported internal system-image server configuration, to address needs for not-yet-public phone testing
<slangasek>  * discussed with the landing team enabling phased updates for the next BQ OTA update
<slangasek>  * prepping for next week's Core sprint
<slangasek>  * investigation of a broken package install in the Software Center
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> erm ok that's not the right bug
<slangasek> bug #1425376
<ubottu> bug 1425376 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Core provides no console login prompt if network is unavailable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425376
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> any questions?
<stgraber> mvo: sure
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> everyone knows where they're going to be on Monday? :)
<slangasek> (or Sunday evening)
<infinity> Not here?
<cyphermox> working?
<mvo> :)
<slangasek> cyphermox: Sunday evening!? no, welcome drinks
<caribou> fighting sleep deprivation ?
<doko> cyphermox, stgraber, barry: dinner tonight?
<cyphermox> doko: barry: maybe more drinks, but late? I have another dinner :/
<cyphermox> actually, I should probably confirm
<slangasek> you can have two dinners and drinks
<slangasek> ok seriously - anything else to take care of here? :)
<doko> slangasek, was this an offer to double expense? ;-P
 * sil2100 just got really angry at google just now
<cyphermox> stgraber: need a lift to the airport on sunday?
<slangasek> doko: cyphermox said he had to have two dinners, he doesn't get a per diem at home ;)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  9 15:20:05 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-04-09-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks
<mvo> thanks
<caribou> thanks
<cyphermox> o.
<slangasek> see (a lot of) you on Sunday!
<cyphermox> thanks
<sil2100> o/
<caribou> cyphermox: FYI, we're both landing at ~15:30 in Austin, might want to try to share a cab
<cyphermox> caribou: sure.
<cyphermox> three of us
<barry> stgraber, cyphermox if we can do dinner that would be great
<caribou> cyphermox: oh, yeah, just saw stgraber
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-04-11
<sil2100> o/
<Mirv> o/
<FourDollars> o/
<rbasak> o/
<slashd> o/
<BenC> o/
<sil2100> cyphermox, micahg, bdmurray: ping
<bdmurray> o/
<sil2100> rbasak: ping!
<Laney> sil2100: you should update the !dmb-ping alias
<sil2100> Ah
<Laney> test it with ubottu in a PM :)
 * rbasak is here
<sil2100> rbasak: unping, yeah, missed your hand ;)
<Laney> then say "!dmb-ping is <new text>" to i
<Laney> t
<sil2100> Laney: ok! Thanks ;)
<sil2100> I guess we have a quorum
<sil2100> By priniciple infinity should be chairing from what I see as we go alphabetically, but he's not around it seems
<BenC> I would offer to go since Iâm in order of succession, but this is my first rodeo, so Iâd rather decline the first run.
<sil2100> BenC: I guess you'd be the next alphabetically-wise, want to chair?
<sil2100> bdmurray: hey, could you chair for us this time ;)?
<sil2100> We'd have time to learn the ropes
 * micahg is here
<bdmurray> sil2100: okay
<sil2100> Do we have some docs on using meetingology ?
 * bdmurray always looks at last meeting ;-)
<bdmurray> #startmeeting 2016-04-11
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 11 15:11:15 2016 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2016-04-11 Meeting | Current topic:
<sil2100> I guess it's been a while
<sil2100> :)
<bdmurray> So we have a new DMB, welcome everyone!
<BenC> Cheers all
<bdmurray> The agenda is still influx due to it not having been updated recently.
<cyphermox> o/
<bdmurray> sil2100: you'd mentioned you were going to look at the candidate list. Did you get a chance to do that?
<sil2100> bdmurray: didn't do it throughly sadly, but so far we had two candidates willing to participate in today's meeting: Mirv and FourDollars
<rbasak> slashd is here too I think?
<slashd> yes, am I
<bdmurray> Right, I see slashd and FourDollars on the agenda for today.
<sil2100> Mirv is also here, his application was postponed a bit
<Mirv> there are four applications to meetings that were cancelled in February and March
<sil2100> Mirv: yes, but some of them already have core-dev privilages, so the list is not really up-to-date
<Mirv> sil2100: ah correct I think 2016-02-29 was held and some of them were handled. then mine 2016-03-14 was the meeting that got cancelled.
<sil2100> From the core-dev field there's you and psusi left
<BenC> Are there people on the current agenda that are already handled and can be removed?
<bdmurray> Let's start with Mirv then since he's been waiting a while and circle back to Ubuntu Contributing Developer.
<sil2100> Agreed
<bdmurray> BenC: Yes, that was mentioned via email. I did remove some.
<BenC> Ok
<bdmurray> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2016-04-11 Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Core Developer applications
<bdmurray> #subtopic Timo Jyrunki's application for core-dev
<bdmurray> Mirv: Could you please introduce yourself?
<Mirv> Hi. So I'm Ubuntu user since 2004, and currently a MOTU and have rights to two PPU package sets. I'm working for Canonical for four years now, and as part of that have maintained for example the Qt packages and their migrations, and various other things as part of the phone efforts.
<Mirv> My special interests tend to have been the "consumer" parts of Ubuntu, including desktop, phone and the different flavors of Ubuntu (where I'm glad to help, while I use Unity myself).
<bdmurray> Does anybody have any questions for Mirv?
<BenC> o/
<bdmurray> BenC: feel free to just ask
<BenC> Mirv: In what way would becoming a core-dev help you to contribute to Ubuntu further. What about not being a core-dev hinders your contributions?
<Mirv> BenC: I can't currently do packaging reviews of main packages that go through CI Train. As a landing team member, it hurts a bit to not be able to help other teams in that, while they tend to ask me for packaging help often. I could have more PPU:s, but I already have quite some. I'm also nowadays familiar with most things that happen in the archives, and I'd be glad to help where I can with eg releas
<Mirv> e pocket migrations more often than I currently can.
<Mirv> Likewise, my patch pilot is currently limited to universe packages, while I do see things on the sponsoring list occasionally where I'd be familiar with the package but don't have upload rights.
<bdmurray> Mirv: What kinds of feedback have you provided when reviewing packages that go through the CI Train?
<sil2100> Mirv: regarding that actually - since I see you have a lot of main experience through the Qt stack and do patch-piloting sessions, did you work on some lot of other package work from main?
<sil2100> s/lot of//
<Mirv> bdmurray: the most common feedback (if something is needed) has to do with handling moved files, where people tend to not use Breaks/Replaces etc correctly.
<Mirv> sil2100: well in the past we handled the unity/compiz SRU:s, but most of the time I've found it easier to just contribute within my MOTU rights where there is also work to be done. I mean, I've not done much of eg sponsoring where I'd do review but ask then actual core-dev to sponsor it, after I got MOTU rights.
<BenC> Mirv: I guess Iâm not familiar enough with the CI Train. Just for my own education, what about providing feedback to main packagers requires core-dev access?
<Mirv> sil2100: well of course I've libvoikko, suomi-malaga/voikko-fi, libreoffice-voikko etc in main from Debian that I work on but can't upload myself in Ubuntu
<sil2100> Mirv: ACK
<Mirv> BenC: I can provide feedback and I usually do, but then if I get the fixes from the developers I can't approve them since it requires a core-dev to ack them.
<Mirv> BenC: so then I need to spend some other core-dev's time and he also needs to look through the changes since he's essentially taking the responsibility (since I'm not core-dev)
<BenC> Mirv: That makes more sense, thanks.
<bdmurray> micahg, cyphermox: any questions?
<sil2100> BenC: usually when there's a package from main that Mirv reviews he forwards his concerns/opinion to me or someone else that's around, but it's still a bit duplicating work
<micahg> Mirv: out of curiosity, do the CI Train rules change as the cycle progresses?
<BenC> sil2100: Your endorsement speaks well to him. Thanks for the additonal info.
<Mirv> micahg: not much, other than by the final freeze we will not land anymore to archives but to overlay PPA, from where packages will be copied to +1 when it opens
<micahg> so, is it up to the reviewers to decide whether or not to approve something based on feature freeze?
<cyphermox> no questions from me
<sil2100> micahg: yes
<Mirv> micahg: yes otherwise, but actually if there are no packaging changes (debian/), any lander can essentially land anything. which has of course been a bit hot topic regarding traditional processes.
<Mirv> we've had standing FFe:s for touch related packages for that reason, and those have not been considered optimal from all people either.
<micahg> ah
<bdmurray> Any more questions?
<Mirv> it's a bit tough with touch being essentially rolling release releasing to traditional half year Ubuntu cycle archives.
<sil2100> No questions from me, all good here
<micahg> I think that's it from me
<BenC> Me as well
<bdmurray> #vote Mirv to be granted membership to core-dev
<meetingology> Please vote on: Mirv to be granted membership to core-dev
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<BenC> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from BenC
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<bdmurray> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Mirv to be granted membership to core-dev
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bdmurray> Mirv: congratulations!
<BenC> Mirv: Congrats
<sil2100> Mirv: congratulations :)
<Mirv> thank you! :)
<bdmurray> Based off the wiki history it looks like FourDollars signed up first.
<bdmurray> FourDollars: Are you available / ready?
<FourDollars> bdmurray: yes
<bdmurray> #topic MOTU Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2016-04-11 Meeting | Current topic: MOTU Applications
<bdmurray> #subtopic Shih-Yuan Lee
<bdmurray> FourDollars: Could you please introduce yourself?
<FourDollars> OK
<FourDollars> Hi, I am Ubuntu user since 6.04. I am working for Canonical for six years now.
<FourDollars> I am a free software developer and contributor, a Debian Maintainer.
<FourDollars> I host the physical community http://www.tossug.org at https://moztw.org/space/.
<FourDollars> I am also the member of some different communities in Taiwan, such as Ubuntu Taiwan, Linux Taiwan, Debian Taiwan.
<bdmurray> FourDollars: How much of your work is for the development release?
<FourDollars> I contributed to efibootmgr, dell-recovery, gnome-screenshot and upower.
<FourDollars> bdmurray: Most of my work is about LTS.
<FourDollars> I takes care of the issues directly from the OEM/ODM.
<FourDollars> If the issue is not kernel related, I will try to fix them.
<FourDollars> So I will provide the patch to the upstream and then backport to Ubuntu.
<bdmurray> FourDollars: What do you do if the fix is not in the development release?
<sil2100> FourDollars: let's say you publish a package to the archives, but you see it doesn't migrate from the -proposed pocket - where would you look for clues?
<FourDollars> I don't understand the question.  :(
<sil2100> FourDollars: which one? bdmurray's or mine? I'm happy to provide more context if needed
<FourDollars> bdmurray: I will search for the upstream source control system if the fix is not in the development release.
<FourDollars> bdmurray: If I can not find the fix, I will open a bug on upstream bug tracking system and provide the details.
<FourDollars> bdmurray: Then if I have time, I will try it fix it directly.
<FourDollars> sil2100: I don't understand yours.
<sil2100> FourDollars: so, let's say you have a package that you prepare with a fix and upload it to the Ubuntu archive using dput
<sil2100> FourDollars: you see that the upload succeeded and that the packages built correctly - looking, for instance, through Launchpad
<sil2100> FourDollars: but the package you uploaded is stuck in the proposed pocket, not migrating to the release pocket for some reason
<sil2100> FourDollars: what steps would you perform to check why it doesn't migrate from, let's say, xenial-proposed to xenial?
<FourDollars> sil2100: I remember there are some days delay about 1~2 weeks from -proposed to -updates.
<sil2100> FourDollars: ah, yes, that's the case for SRUs
<sil2100> FourDollars: but let's say it doesn't migrate even after this time, or doesn't migrate when you upload the package to the current development series
<sil2100> (which shouldn't have any specific delays)
<FourDollars> sil2100: I will ask for the help from the mailing list or IRC channels.
<sil2100> FourDollars: ok, that's always an option - did you have any experience with the output_excuses page?
<bdmurray> FourDollars: Looking at the "My involvement" section of your application, I'm a bit confused as I see some bugs where it isn't clear to me how you were invovled. For example bug 1452238, bug 1042231.
<ubottu> bug 1452238 in apt (Ubuntu) "Failed to upgrade system from 14.04" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1452238
<ubottu> bug 1042231 in Session Installer "InstallPackageNames should not return until the package has been installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1042231
<FourDollars> sil2100: I will check if there is any freezing date.
<sil2100> FourDollars: also an option, yes, but a place worth remembering whenever things like this happen is http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html (for latest development series)
<FourDollars> sil2100: If I can not make it, I will wait.
<FourDollars> sil2100: I didn't deal with it before, but I knows it.
<rbasak> FourDollars: you said in your application that you're looking go get MOTU so that you can do package relative works for the Ubuntu community in Taiwan. Could you give us an example of a sponsored upload with this sort of work?
<rbasak> *to get
<FourDollars> bdmurray: Regarding https://launchpad.net/bugs/1452238, I test it in the beginning and I was trying to fix it. But there are other tasks so Tim helps me to deal with it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1452238 in apt (Ubuntu) "Failed to upgrade system from 14.04" [Medium,Confirmed]
<rbasak> Sorry, I forgot about that outstanding question. Take your time.
<FourDollars> rbasak: ibus-chewing
<sil2100> Ok
<FourDollars> bdmurray: Regarding https://launchpad.net/bugs/1042231, I help to verify the fix.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1042231 in Session Installer "InstallPackageNames should not return until the package has been installed" [Undecided,New]
<FourDollars> rbasak: I knows a Debian developer and he is active dealing with all Chinese input related packages in Debian.
<bdmurray> FourDollars: While verifying is helpful to the process it does not demonstrate development work.
<FourDollars> rbasak: So I am wondering if I can help him to do the similar works in Ubuntu.
<FourDollars> rbasak: You can check https://github.com/fourdollars. There are some development work.
<FourDollars> bdmurray: You can check https://github.com/fourdollars. There are some development work.
<rbasak> FourDollars: I understand that with work done in Debian you wouldn't expect to upload much to the development release in Ubuntu. So I presume you're looking at SRUs mainly, is that right? Are there any other packages in particular that you expect to want to upload with MOTU?
<FourDollars> rbasak: Sorry. I replied to wrong person.
<rbasak> np
<FourDollars> rbasak: I am not looking at SRU only.
<FourDollars> rbasak: I would like to also join the development work.
<rbasak> FourDollars: have you been hindered by not having MOTU?
<FourDollars> rbasak: In fact, my goal is to become a core developer because most packages I want to fix is in main.
<FourDollars> rbasak: So that I can fix them quicker.
<rbasak> OK
<FourDollars> rbasak: However I am not familiar with the process yet so I apply MOTU first.
<bdmurray> We are a bit over time now, are there any more questions? cyphermox, micahg, BenC?
<FourDollars> rbasak: My plan is to practice the process of MOTU and help to fix some universe/multiverse packages.
<FourDollars> rbasak: My own Debian packages are in universe/multiverse.
<micahg> FourDollars: usually people do that before they apply, to demonstrate mastery
<FourDollars> micahg: I see.
<sil2100> No more questions from me
<bdmurray> #vote FourDollars to be granted membership in motu
<meetingology> Please vote on: FourDollars to be granted membership in motu
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<bdmurray> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from bdmurray
<rbasak> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from rbasak
<rbasak> I'll explain after the vote has ended.
<sil2100> +0 (I do see potential, but I suppose you'd need to gain a bit more experience)
<meetingology> +0 (I do see potential, but I suppose you'd need to gain a bit more experience) received from sil2100
<bdmurray> While your work on SRUs has been great, that is a double gated process (sponsor / SRU team member) and follows a very strict process. I'd like you to be more involved / experienced with Ubuntu development before granting you membership in motu.
<cyphermox> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from cyphermox
<micahg> +0 good intentions, good work so far, but hasn't displayed mastery of MOTU style work (library transitions, helping proposed-migration in devel release, merges from Debian)
<meetingology> +0 good intentions, good work so far, but hasn't displayed mastery of MOTU style work (library transitions, helping proposed-migration in devel release, merges from Debian) received from micahg
<cyphermox> I've seen (and in fact sponsored) some good uploads after some back and forth, but I would like to see more sponsored uploads (in main or otherwise)
<bdmurray> BenC: still about, care to vote?
<bdmurray> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: FourDollars to be granted membership in motu
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:2 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Motion denied
<bdmurray> rbasak: did you want to say something?
<rbasak> I appreciate the good work you have been doing, but it doesn't seem to have that much relevance for MOTU specifically. I'd expect to see more sponsored uploads to universe.
<rbasak> You mentioned wanting to becoming familiar with the process. I believe it's more appropriate to do that under the guidance of sponsors, and then apply again for MOTU when you have some experience exercising the process.
<rbasak> I'm a little torn because I appreciate that doing the right thing in Debian means fewer uploads to Ubuntu, which hinders getting a good track record for Ubuntu uploads. But if that is the case, then getting the odd sponsored universe upload shouldn't be a problem either.
<BenC> +1
<BenC> Sorry
<rbasak> FourDollars: your sponsored upload history does look good though. So can I suggest a vote to give you Ubuntu Contributing Developer in recognition of that, if you're interested in that?
<BenC> Actually, I meant +0
<FourDollars> rbasak: OK
<jjohansen> \o
<rbasak> bdmurray: #vote FourDollars for Ubuntu Contributing Developer please?
<sil2100> FourDollars: I would recommend joining the patch-piloting initiative to gain experience and additional upload history :)
<sil2100> FourDollars: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews
<bdmurray> #vote FourDollars for Ubuntu Contributing Developer
<meetingology> Please vote on: FourDollars for Ubuntu Contributing Developer
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<bdmurray> that's enough so in the interest of time...
<bdmurray> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: FourDollars for Ubuntu Contributing Developer
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<rbasak> FourDollars: sorry we couldn't give you MOTU. But please pretend you have it, stick the uploads you would have made to universe into the sponsorship queue, and re-apply once you have a few of these.
<FourDollars> rbasak: OK. Thx.
<bdmurray> FourDollars: the patch piloting queue frequently has incomplete items in it, so isn't just stuff that needs sponsoring
<bdmurray> #topci AOB
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2016-04-11 Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<bdmurray> #action bdmurray to summarize the meeting / send annoucements
<meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray to summarize the meeting / send annoucements
<bdmurray> #action cyphermox to make membership changes
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox to make membership changes
<bdmurray> #action bdmurray to update agenda
<meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray to update agenda
<rbasak> So we didn't get to slashd :-(
<bdmurray> sil2100: are you still willing to review the status of applicants on the agenda?
<rbasak> He was down for today. Is there anyone else in the backlog?
<bdmurray> rbasak: ah right, I feel like an hour isn't long enough
<sil2100> bdmurray: yes, please add an action item for that for me :)
<bdmurray> #action sil2100 to review status of applicants on the agenda
<meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to review status of applicants on the agenda
<sil2100> I'll make sure to review the list this week
<slashd> Do I need to reschedule my application for next meeting ?
<bdmurray> We could review it by email I think, right micahg?
<sil2100> slashd: no worries, we'll reschedule you to the next one - if it's ok with you
<sil2100> Or that
<micahg> we could do by email
<sil2100> Fine with me as well
<rbasak> I endorsed slashd, so there's an implicit +1 from me already.
<micahg> or now if no one needs to channel and DMB members are still around
<rbasak> jjohansen: did you need the channel?
<jjohansen> rbasak: nah, sorry for hoping into your meeting, we moved to meeting-2 when we saw your meeting was still going
<rbasak> jjohansen: ah OK. Thanks!
<bdmurray> Okay, I guess there are still four of us.
<bdmurray> #topic Eric Desrochers for Ubuntu Contributing Developer
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2016-04-11 Meeting | Current topic: Eric Desrochers for Ubuntu Contributing Developer
<bdmurray> lets just skip the intro part and move to questions
<micahg> link?
<bdmurray> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slashd/ContributingDeveloperApplication
<micahg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slashd/ContributingDeveloperApplication
<bdmurray> slashd: What needs to happen next with bug 1546735?
<ubottu> bug 1546735 in openipmi (Ubuntu) "openipmi package compile without SSL" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1546735
<slashd> bdmurray, I need to change my plan and focus on the solterm issue (debian bug) more than the entreprise impact with zabbix
<slashd> the patch is now available in xenial but need to work on justification for Trusty surrounding solterm more than Zabbix
<bdmurray> slashd: I'd consider justification as the impact, so the Test Case section is also missing.
<bdmurray> any questions from the DMB members?
<slashd> bdmurray, I'm my defense I did it in the private bug, since there was sensible informations about UA customer, but yes I agree, I should also put it on the public bug
<slashd> without UA customer reference
<rbasak> Hmm. openipmi is in part GPL. Is it even compatible with openssl's license?
<rbasak> Anyway, offtopic, sorry.
<bdmurray> slashd: You put information about how to verify the bug using a third party package not supported by Ubuntu, which as I've mentioned before isn't SRU worthy.
<slashd> bdmurray, yeah this is why I need to re-work the justification around the debian bug (solterm)
<micahg> slashd: you mention attending local networking events as something you can do better.  Have you ever been to an Ubuntu meetup?
<micahg> or and Ubuntu LoCo event?
<slashd> micahg, I'm attending a few devops meetings (as an organizer) where we talked about different techno and represent Ubuntu in those one such as montreal devops, the community in montreal doesn't seems to be very strong, but yes my goal is to attend more event in Montreal
<slashd> it's not very active except for the mailing list
<bdmurray> #vote slashd for Ubuntu Contributing Developer
<meetingology> Please vote on: slashd for Ubuntu Contributing Developer
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<micahg> +1 bug fixes + dev event representation, keep up the good work!
<meetingology> +1 bug fixes + dev event representation, keep up the good work! received from micahg
<BenC> +1 sustained effort
<meetingology> +1 sustained effort received from BenC
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<bdmurray> #end vote
<bdmurray> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: slashd for Ubuntu Contributing Developer
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2016-04-11 Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<slashd> thanks everyone
<bdmurray> Anything other business x2?
<bdmurray> Alright! Thanks everyone.
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 11 17:05:14 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-04-11-15.11.moin.txt
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> Thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-04-12
<arosales> hello
<arosales> Ubuntu Server meeting about to kick off
<jgrimm> o/
<kickinz1> o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 12 16:01:11 2016 UTC.  The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<arosales> hello hello o/
<arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<arosales> jgrimm understand timeline/process around serverguide
<arosales> jgrimm: was that resolved per "Not bound by StringFreeze, see mailing list and wiki for how to help"
<jgrimm> arosales,  talked to docs folks. updates can be made at anytime since online
<smoser> o/
<jgrimm> yes, that's resolved. i was absent last week, but posted my responses in the wiki
<arosales> jgrimm: it also looks like the following was resolved, "jgrimm find owner for vsftpd test failures:"  -- caribou volunteered
<arosales> those look like the actions from the previous meeting
<caribou> arosales: yes, working on it atm
<arosales> caribou: thanks
<jgrimm> thanks
<arosales> #topic Xenial Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Xenial Development
<arosales> release right around the corner
<jgrimm> indeed
<arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<arosales> Final freeze this week
<arosales> release next week
<arosales> #subtopic Release Bugs
<arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<arosales> 41 bugs for ubuntu server .  . .
<arosales> 7 high without a fix commit
<arosales> perhaps we touch those here?
<arosales> #link http://launchpad.net/bugs/1508874
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1508874 in nova-lxd (Ubuntu Xenial) "Please disable cpu resource configuration" [High,New]
<jgrimm> nova-lxd
<arosales> that is nova-lxd
<arosales> zul: were you taking a look at that one?
<hallyn> i think that is obselete
<hallyn> lxd 2.0 does proper load balancing
<hallyn> obsolete even
<arosales> oh, hallyn could you comment and perhaps resolve that bug then?
<hallyn> sure
<arosales> hallyn: thanks
<arosales> jamespage: fyi, I think you opened that one ^
<arosales> #link http://launchpad.net/bugs/1248054
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1248054 in dlm (Ubuntu Wily) "[SRU] dlm package installation fails" [High,Triaged]
<jamespage> arosales, oh that was fixed ages abot
<arosales> fix released in dlm for 1248054
<arosales> was that needed in xenial?
<arosales> or trusty?
<caribou> yeah, I uploaded that one
<arosales> caribou: looks like tasks are still open for xenial and trusty, correct?
<caribou> arosales: I don't see a task for xenial
<caribou> arosales: only wily & trusty
<arosales> jamespage: ack re nova-lxd hallyn may be marking it as resolved
<arosales> caribou: sorry, yes -- just trusty wily as you said
<arosales> caribou: so any action needed there, or progressing as needed?
<arosales> #link http://launchpad.net/bugs/1313550
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1313550 in lxc (Ubuntu Wily) "ping does not work as a normal user on trusty tarball cloud images." [High,Triaged]
<caribou> arosales: I'll revisit this one
<caribou> arosales: the dlm one, sorry
<arosales> maas, tar, curtain still needed no trusty for 1313550 (ping issue with normal user)
<arosales> caribou: thanks
<hallyn> (fixed up the lxc 'affects' for that one)
<arosales> hallyn: thanks
 * arosales doesn't seen roaksoax for maas
<arosales> smoser: are you the right person for curtain?
<arosales> jgrimm: ^
<jgrimm> arosales, yes.. smoser is curtin
<arosales> jgrimm: for the ping issue action needed for trusty: curtain, and tar
<jgrimm> arosales, ack
 * arosales will follow up with roaksox for maas
<arosales> jgrimm: thanks
<arosales> #link http://launchpad.net/bugs/1398999
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1398999 in nova (Ubuntu Wily) "Block migrate with attached volumes copies volumes to themselves" [High,Triaged]
<smoser> arosales, curtin is fixed on that bug. prbably in trusty.
<smoser> i can check.
<arosales> smoser: thanks, if you can update the bug that would be great
<smoser> yeah, and its marked as such :)
<arosales> smoser: thanks
<arosales> nova bug here
<teward> o/ (late)
<arosales> jamespage: ^
<arosales> #link http://launchpad.net/bugs/1445616
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1445616 in crmsh (Ubuntu Wily) "[MIR] crmsh in vivid/wily/xenial is not compatible with pacemaker" [High,Triaged]
<jamespage> crmsh pending sru team ack
<jamespage> that nova bug should be resolved for mitaka
<arosales> jamespage: thanks
<arosales> #link http://launchpad.net/bugs/1455818
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1455818 in mysql-5.6 (Ubuntu Wily) "mysql-server-5.6.postrm fails when /usr/share/mysql-common/configure-symlinks doesn't exist" [High,Triaged]
<cpaelzer> also on that nova bug we can probably set all the vivid references to Won't Fix
<arosales> the mysql bug not fix relesed in wiley
<arosales> jgrimm: ^ fyi
<jgrimm> yep, not a priority but will probaby SRU
<jgrimm> fixed in xenial
<arosales> jgrimm: tghanks
<rbasak> Yeah the fix is trivial, it just needs SRU processing time etc.
<arosales> *thanks
<arosales> #link http://launchpad.net/bugs/1521438
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1521438 in ceph (Ubuntu Xenial) "Another MAX AVAIL bug unweighted OSD" [High,Triaged]
<rbasak> It's also fairly edge case-y - won't trigger during normal production server use.
<arosales> jamespage: I'll catch up with the icey and cholcombe on that one
<arosales> rbasak: thanks
<arosales> and those are the high bugs without fixes
<arosales> I suspect the focus is on xenial atm
<arosales> moving to next item
<arosales> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<arosales> caribou: any items?
<caribou> trying to finalize fix for vsftpd
<caribou> nothing other than that
<arosales> caribou: ok thanks
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
 * arosales doesn't see matsubara
<arosales> moving on
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Right now I would not be aware of any kernel issues.  If there are some I missed please ping.
<arosales> smb:  thanks for the update, if folks find any I would also encourage a bug
<arosales> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<arosales> any CFPs folks want to bring up?
<arosales> . . .
<arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<arosales> Any events folks want to bring up?
<arosales> . . .
<arosales> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<arosales> Any other items ?
<arosales> . . .
<jgrimm> teward, anything on nginx?
<arosales> sounds like no updates on nginx
<arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<arosales> NEXT MEETING: Tuesday 2016-04-19 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<arosales> hallyn: your up next
<arosales> thanks all!
<arosales> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 12 16:32:32 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-04-12-16.01.moin.txt
<rbasak> Thanks arosales!
<teward> jgrimm: sorry, network issues
<teward> jgrimm: 1.9.14 landed last week, thanks to infinity.  nothing 'more' yet
<hallyn> arosales: yup :)
<teward> but i'm eyeing finalfreeze
<teward> thanks arosales
<hallyn> thx
<teward> sorry about E: No Updates, internet issues @ my location
<ahoneybun> wxl, is there a LoCo meeting today?
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-04-14
<cyphermox> o/
<sil2100> \o
<robru> o~
<pitti> *\o
<chiluk> o/
<barry> o=
 * slangasek waves
<cyphermox> pitti: pom poms?
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 14 15:02:17 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pitti> cyphermox: piece of birthday cake :)
 * pitti hands out a piece to everyone
<cyphermox> oh cool
<cyphermox> but the cake is a lie.
<pitti> it's quite real here, I assure you :)
<xnox> oooh i have left over cake
<barry> hbmp!
<slangasek> pitti: your birthday?  the calendar doesn't tell me it's your birthday
<slangasek> maybe I need a better calendar instead of trusting G+ to keep me informed ;)
<infinity> He didn't say it was his cake.
<cyphermox> pitti: best wishes for your birthday
<infinity> For all we know, he stole it.
<chiluk> pitti it's my birthday as well!
<slangasek> infinity: quite possible, hence asking rather than assuming ;)
<cyphermox> infinity: he could steal his own birthday cake too.
<barry> chiluk: hb!
<pitti> chiluk: wow, happy joint birthday then! *clink*
<slangasek> pitti, chiluk: happy birthday!
<cyphermox> chiluk: happy birthday
<sil2100> pitti, chiluk: happy birthday then!
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<chiluk> that's pretty rate.
<chiluk> rare
<bdmurray> didn't this happen last year in Austin?
<pitti> cheers!
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk)
<slangasek> doko chiluk bdmurray slangasek cyphermox barry xnox tdaitx infinity pitti robru sil2100 caribou
<pitti> yes, I chalked up my 35th in Austin last year
<infinity> Young'un.
<slangasek> doko isn't making the meeting, sent his status to list
<slangasek> chiluk:
<pitti> dholbach got me space ice cream (freeze-dried)
<chiluk> lp1567539. Finally got access to some ppc64el hardware, and spent a day rebooting, attempting to dump, and trying again.  Eventually came to the conclusion that crashkernel=2G-4G:320M,4G-32G:512M,32G-64G:1024M,64G-128G:2048M,128G-:4096M@32M is the correct magic line that needs to be added to ppc64el machines.
<chiluk> -done-
<chiluk> bug 1567539
<ubottu> bug 1567539 in makedumpfile (Ubuntu) "Failure to dump with trusty+3.16 on ppc64el" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1567539
<pitti> chiluk: that looks totally obvious (... WUT?)
<bdmurray> worked with stub to migrate to a consolidated cassandra database
<bdmurray> rebuild of bucket versions count on real cassandra (final import finished)
<bdmurray> backported python-pycassa fix to precise (Traceback after migration)
<bdmurray> tested staging cassandra for DateTime bug (no luck)
<bdmurray> reported / verified fix for RT 90484 re: daisy app servers OOPS
<bdmurray> uploaded u-r-u and u-m fixes for LP: #1566141 (turn off screensaver)
<bdmurray> fixed u-r-u bug LP: #1509655 (conffile dialog)
<bdmurray> worked on a fix for LP: #1569233
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1566141 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "sleep inhibitor uses deprecated interface" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566141
<bdmurray> investigation into LP: #1530518
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1509655 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Xenial) "release upgrade crashed on custom configuration file dialog" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1509655
<bdmurray> package-subscribers modifications for dev release and xz
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1569233 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "changelogs.ubuntu.com/EOLReleaseAnnouncement missing, causes distro upgrade failure on EOL systems" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1569233
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1530518 in apt-xapian-index (Ubuntu Xenial) "/etc/cron.weekly/apt-xapian-index reports TypeError" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1530518
<slangasek> chiluk: what, you didn't learn that rule in elementary school? 2G-4G:320M,4G-32G:512M,32G-64G:1024M,64G-128G:2048M,128G-:4096M@32M , never 2G-4G:320M,4G-32G:512M,32G-64G:768M,64G-128G:2048M,128G-:4096M@32M
<bdmurray> submitted RT re: installing packages on cranberry and snakefruit
<bdmurray> upgrader / foundations bug triage
<bdmurray> travel arrangements
<bdmurray> â done
<chiluk> ah I see you changed the value for 32-64g
<slangasek> no I would never change it
<slangasek> I know my ABCs and my 32Gs
<slangasek>  * wandered down to the CPC team's sprint that was in town this week, to talk about image building, seed ownership, and other fun topics
<slangasek>  * poked a bit at the lua build failures, found something that may be a glibc regression, worked around it (LP: #1570055)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1570055 in glibc (Ubuntu) "FTBFS on powerpc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570055
<slangasek>  * published snappy images to cdimage.ubuntu.com as a one-off, pending proper central launchpad building of them
<slangasek>  * queue processing for the release: juju 2.0 packages all reviewed
<slangasek>  * sprint travel planning; Austin the first week in May, Vancouver the second
<slangasek>  * looking to get a completely free edk2 package in for 16.04, so we have proper UEFI firmware images that can be pulled in by default where needed (thanks to dannf for driving most of this)
<slangasek>  * off tomorrow
<slangasek> (done)
<robru> wait what about vancouver
<cyphermox> xenial:
<cyphermox> - NetworkManager 1.1.93
<cyphermox> - add tpm2-tools Depends on libtss2-utils (bug LP: #1569057)
<cyphermox> - debugged n-m-pptp VPN crashes in ppp (bug LP: #1568336)
<cyphermox> - desktop-base / debian logo in grub theme issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1569057 in tpm2-tools (Ubuntu) "tpm2-tools should depend on libtss2-utils" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1569057
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1568336 in ppp (Debian) "pppd crashed with SIGSEGV in plugin_init()" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568336
<chiluk> slangasec is it the whole team that will be in austin in may?
<cyphermox> - fixed password validation feedback for Mok in ubiquity (bug LP: #1560940)
<cyphermox> - fixing network-manager autopkgtests
<cyphermox> - localechooser fix for language translation data (bug LP: #1551285)
<slangasek> robru: not a sprint you need to worry about
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1560940 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "None matching mokutils passwords" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1560940
<slangasek> chiluk: yes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1551285 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with UnicodeDecodeError in decode(): 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc5 in position 8782: ordinal not in range(128)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1551285
<chiluk> kick ass..
<cyphermox> - merged ubiquity fix from FourDollars
<cyphermox> - misc ubiquity bugfix
<cyphermox> - missing zh_CN glyphs in grub (bug LP: #1559933)
<cyphermox>   - bisected in freetype (newest from Debian also no good); I need to look all it and grub-mkfont harder.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1559933 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "[Grub] There are messy codes on displaying Chinese characters in grub after install xenial-desktop_0320." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1559933
<robru> slangasek: but that's my home turf!
<cyphermox> - testing ltrace upload (bug LP: #1547152)
<cyphermox>   - on ppc64el, armhf and x86
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1547152 in ltrace (Ubuntu) "ltrace is throwing segfault while running any of the userspace command" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547152
<cyphermox> - translation updates (bug LP: #1569232)
<xnox> robru, snappy sprint in vancouver i think.
<cyphermox>   - ubiquity and ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1569232 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Please update non-languagepack translations for 16.04 LTS release" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1569232
<cyphermox> - ubiquity mokutil integration fixes (bug LP: #1567445)
<cyphermox> - vt switching in ubiquity/oem-config (bug LP: #1567194)
<cyphermox> Â±other stuff:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1567445 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubi-prepare failed with exit code 255" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1567445
<cyphermox> - backporting ltrace patches for ppc64el
<cyphermox> - setting up raspi2 for armhf testing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1567194 in OEM Priority Project "Unable to switch to console/ttys from ubiquity" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1567194
<cyphermox> (done)
<barry> paramiko FTBFS; gdebi 0.9.5.7ubuntu1 (fixes FTBFS); debian bug #815294 (python-scripttest FTBFS); routes 2.2-1ubuntu2 (fixes FTBFS); looked at lua5.x FTBFS (LP: #1570055; investigated on powerpc, but slangasek fixed it); other FTBFS and -proposed migration investigations
<ubottu> Debian bug 815294 in src:python-scripttest "python-scripttest: FTBFS: plugin distutils failed with: exit code=5" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/815294
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1570055 in glibc (Ubuntu) "FTBFS on powerpc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570055
<barry> system-image 3.1 rode the train
<barry> LP: #1568889 triage
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1568889 in system-image (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to OTA10 fails on Meizu MX4" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568889
<barry> LP: #1530518
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1530518 in apt-xapian-index (Ubuntu Xenial) "/etc/cron.weekly/apt-xapian-index reports TypeError" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1530518
<barry> starting to look at python-pip FTBFS
<barry> --done--
<xnox> unbroke gnupg2 upstart usersessions
<pitti> cyphermox: any bad feedback about NM yet? I didn't hear anything so far
<xnox> archive-reorg merged boost sources
<xnox> s390x installer fixes
<xnox> s390x package fixes
<xnox> unbroke update-notifier motd after full-upgrade
<xnox> done
<cyphermox> pitti: some bug reports, but that's unavoidable.
<xnox> pitti, i'm having nameserver woes, but cannot pin down the semantics of the bug yet.
<cyphermox> pitti: that said, I'll need your help to iron out a small issue in the units for ubiquity
<bdmurray> cyphermox: I opened some bugs from crashes the other day
<tdaitx> # 2016-04-14
<tdaitx> = Security update for OpenJDK 7
<tdaitx> * Backported 8 patches (1 jaxp + 7 jdk)
<tdaitx> * Working on the only hotspot patch
<tdaitx> - The changes depend on other changesets, but most of those introduce additional unwanted features for OpenJDK 7 and are proving a challenge to isolate
<tdaitx> - In a different approach I refactored the patch in order to have it apply directly to OpenJDK 7, without other backports, but it segfaults
<tdaitx> - Broke down modified patch (132 chunks originally) and identified offending chunks (83 of them, trying to isolate them further than that)
<tdaitx> - Debugging segfault to identify offending code, but hotspot is hard
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx> - Finished travel arrangements
<tdaitx> - Next Thursday is a holiday (will work and swap it)
<tdaitx> (done)
<cyphermox> bdmurray: yep, I have some in a list
<infinity>  - Mostly queue reviews and fielding release-related IRC pings
<infinity>  - Discussions with kernel team about [redacted]
<infinity>  - Prepping final (hopefully?) pre-freeze glibc upload
<infinity>  - Mid-review of armhf+raspi2 cdimage merge
<infinity>  - Working on updating IBM PPC userspace tools
<infinity>  - Worked with Dmitri to get s390-tools out of minimal
<infinity>  - Lots of archive cleanup
<infinity>  - Sprint/travel plans
<infinity>  - s390x build maintenance, and glib2.0 FTBFS fix
<infinity> (done)
<cyphermox> infinity: you need to review my cpc merge!
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - Add option to set more appropriate parallel= build option in LXC (#1569750)
<pitti>  - Automate setup of armf LXD test slave
<pitti>  - Fixed failure to run setup script on lcy01
<infinity> cyphermox: Yeah, I'm fixing it up right now. :P
<pitti>  - Investigate wrong hostname, turned out that it's the postfix test that does that (#1570001)
<pitti>  - Refine daily autopkgtest image builds, charm up the automation (#1569546)
<pitti>  - Reattempt to use arm64 scalingstack instances for armhf autopkgtesting, works well enough now (#1531768); automate setup of armf LXD test slave, but no control logic yet
<pitti> distro:
<pitti>  - Fix FTBFS: dicto-moby-thesaurus, grep, libvigraimpex, mako, python-configglue, ros-robot-model, ubuntu-drivers-common (armhf)
<pitti>  - apt: Apply David's fix for upgrade failures involving Pre-Depends (#1560797)
<pitti>  - apport: disable LP crash reports for final release
<pitti>  - lxd: Investigate looping startup failure (#1569698)
<pitti>  - network-manager: fix failure to start under upstart (#1569204)
<pitti>  - systemd: Fix enabling of linked units (#1563590), keymap updates
<pitti>  - udev: fix handling of change events with multipath devices (#1565969), fix wrong device naming with ibmveth (#1561096)
<pitti>  - Investigate ssh installation failure in QA desktop tests (#1554266)
<pitti>  - Review proposed openssl FIPS change; landed now, just needs a followup upload for some patch cleanup (#1553309)
<pitti>  - Discuss improving the lxd debconfery with stgraber (#1567874)
<pitti>  - archive admin, release engineering, queue reviews, etc.
<pitti>  (done)
<robru> lp:cupstream2distro
<robru> - switched xenial half of dual silos to target overlay ppa so phone development not slowed by archive freeze
<robru> lp:bileto ephemeral PPA work marches on
<robru> - learned how to mock coroutines
<robru> - wrote a big chunk of unit tests
<robru> - fixed issue with dpkg-buildpackage not signing packages
<robru> (dune)
<xnox> infinity, will you take the bugfix patches into glibc for the bug #1564918 ?
<ubottu> bug 1564918 in glibc (Ubuntu) "glibc/s390: Save and restore fprs/vrs while resolving symbols." [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1564918
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - Security hotfix OTA:
<sil2100>   * Consulting the vulnerability, agreeing on putting the store to manual-review
<sil2100>   * Staying late and landing the fix and re-spinning a snapshot-based rc image
<sil2100>   * Release to the users
<sil2100>   * Prepare the release notes, ask for CVE publication
<sil2100> - Language packs:
<sil2100>   * Investigating and fixing missing UITK translations from l-o-m runs
<sil2100>   * Looking into invalid translation percentages for ubuntu-rtm/15.04 (1152% translation ratio is not good)
<sil2100> - Copying images as requested by management for OTA-10.2, sending for testing
<sil2100> - Dealing with some miscommunication issues between various teams
<sil2100> - Some work on the testability branch in system-image
<sil2100> - Writing down a draft for emergency procedures in touch (security updates, reverts)
<sil2100> - First DMB meeting, partaking in review of 3 applicants, re-scheduling remaining candidates
<sil2100> - Clean up on some unused system-image channels
<sil2100> - Answering touch user e-mails (got strangely a lot of those this week)
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> pitti: openssl \o/
<pitti> slangasek: well, I wouldn't call it \o/
<slangasek> :)
<pitti> slangasek: there's another followup upload coming with some patch cleanup (talking to jmbl as we speak)
<pitti> but the bulk is in ind eed
<infinity> xnox: The glibc upload will include an update to the tip of the 2.23 branch, which they claim contains the fixes.
<cyphermox> pitti: scary openssl FIPS changes? :)
<xnox> infinity, excellante.
<slangasek> and no caribou because he is auditioning for a role as Sebastian the Crab
<cyphermox> (scary because it's openssl, not scary because of the patches)
<pitti> cyphermox: you bet :/
<infinity> slangasek: He... What?
<pitti> cyphermox: no, scary because of the patches indeed
<slangasek> infinity: he's under the sea
<cyphermox> pitti: well, a bit of that too ;)
 * infinity needs to read his email more closely.
<slangasek> infinity: no, you just need to think like me, that's all
<slangasek> any questions re: status?
<cyphermox> is under the sea a euphemism for sick?
<slangasek> cyphermox: no, he wrote that he is literally under the sea at this time :)  (EuroStar)
<cyphermox> oh, cool!
 * pitti still catching up reading
<cyphermox> no questions from me.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else for the meeting?
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> release week next week
<slangasek> so no meeting, I'll take it off the calendar
<slangasek> everybody has sprint travel booked by now, I hope?
<barry> sprint*s*
<pitti> yes, for both (cloud and foundations/kernel/security)
<slangasek> remember, if you don't get your travel dates into the spreadsheet, you won't have a hotel room and will have to sleep in the hotel kitchen instead
<tdaitx> yes, booked both
<infinity> slangasek: On a bed of knives?
<barry> slangasek: but at least then you can get 24h breakfast
<pitti> oh, not in a nearby pub?
<slangasek> infinity: you can use spatulas, they're not cruel
<infinity> I do like me a cruelty-free spatula.
<tdaitx> pitti: if we don't put the dates we get to sleep in a nearby pub? and you only tell me this now?
<robru> i do believe I am fully booked for both
<robru> hehe
<pitti> cyphermox, slangasek: do you plan a final shim upload/signing for xenial to fix that FTBFS, or will that be done in the next SRU?
<infinity> Turning shim around that fast isn't possible.
<slangasek> pitti: we don't upload shim for FTBFS fixes, only when we must get a new shim signed
<cyphermox> we'll need to get started thinking about a new shim though
<slangasek> the fix is staged but it doesn't go anywhere until we need one
<cyphermox> ie. for my MokSBStateRT patch
<pitti> ack
<slangasek> cyphermox: right
<cyphermox> and perhaps consider setting up fallback.efi correctly
<slangasek> cyphermox: should that be done before we rotate the daily signing key?
<cyphermox> hrm
<slangasek> setting up fallback.efi doesn't need to be done in the shim package, we should handle it from shim-signed or elsewhere
<slangasek> (so that we're not causing churn to shim by packaging changes either)
<cyphermox> sure, but while looking at shim, is what I mean
<slangasek> right
<osama> I need a local community for my university
<infinity> I need a pony
<slangasek> osama: sorry, this isn't really the place to ask; we're in the middle of a team meeting
<infinity> osama: (This is a channel for holding meetings (which we're currently in the middle of), not for meeting people)
<slangasek> ok! anything else?
<osama> so lead me anywhere else please!
<cyphermox> osama: there probably is a channel for the country or state you live in, look in http://loco.ubuntu.com/
<osama> ok sorry buddies and thanks
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 14 15:32:05 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-04-14-15.02.moin.txt
<xnox> bug #1
<ubottu> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<barry> thanks!
<xnox> pitti, ^
<tdaitx> infinity: here you go http://www.canadianponyclub.org/
<tdaitx> =)
<bdmurray> I thought we had a pony
<bdmurray> Although that was back in the day
<cyphermox> tdaitx: 6 to 25 yr olds only. it's a private club
<xnox> they have ponies "For Enjoyment"
<pitti> bdmurray: indeed, almost forgot about that!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-04-10
<rbasak> cpaelzer: o/
<rbasak> cpaelzer: did you announce your application to devel-permissions@? I don't see it.
<cpaelzer> o/
<cpaelzer> crap
<cpaelzer> of course not I was so busy prepping my PTO to not miss any responsibilities
<cpaelzer> I might just resched to next time then :-/
<cyphermox> bah
<cpaelzer> you tell me once you are all around
<cyphermox> rbasak: do we care? do you need more time to review the application?
<cyphermox> otoh, we might not have quorum, people are busy
<sil2100> o/
<rbasak> No need to reschedule or anything.
<rbasak> It's just useful for the archive, that's all. For example in finding what we did last time in a future application.
<cyphermox> yep
<bdmurray> I'm here but here but need to leave in 1 hour
<cyphermox> ok, seems we have quorum then
<cpaelzer> I'll send one now just in case, you'll tell me if we need to move the decision then
<cyphermox> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 10 15:01:25 2017 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> writing already in other window
<cyphermox> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cyphermox> rbasak to add slashd to the new SRU-UPLOADERS team (carried-over, pending TB action)
<cyphermox> what is the status with that, still pending?
<rbasak> Still pending a TB action.
<rbasak> They seemed to have missed it in their last meeting.
<cyphermox> do they have a bug for that?
<cyphermox> oh ok
<rbasak> Their next meeting is tomorrow I believe.
<rbasak> So I intend to chase again then.
<cyphermox> ack
<rbasak> Indeed there is a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/1674440
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1674440 in ubuntu-community "[TB/DMB] ACL for ~ubuntu-sru-developers" [Undecided,New]
<cyphermox> I'll skip ~mapreri's, I saw the bug and it's still open
<rbasak> Unfortuntely their process it to look for bugs there assigned to the tech board, and only they have persmission to do that it seems.
<bdmurray> rbasak: can you ask them about that tomorrow too?
<cyphermox> hehe
<cyphermox> I can go to that meeting
<rbasak> bdmurray: ack
<cyphermox> I already watch them
<cyphermox> next: rbasak to sort Aron's request
<mapreri> wow
<rbasak> I'm sorry Aron, I've failed at that.
<rbasak> Please carry over.
<cyphermox> zug zug!
<cyphermox> everything else is marked done
<rbasak> Or did someone else take that in the end?
<rbasak> I don't recall having it as an action for me.
<mapreri> Question: shouldn't those bugs be at the very least subscribe the TB?
<rbasak> In any case, I'll sort out what's going on.
<mapreri> s/be//
<cyphermox> rbasak: I'm just relaying what's on the agenda :/
<rbasak> mapreri: perhaps. I did email the tech board directly with the bugs.
<rbasak> cyphermox: understood :)
<cyphermox> do you want me to look at it instead?
<rbasak> I can't remember what it is.
<mapreri> oh well, fine
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> mapreri: we'll pester them tomorrow :)
<mapreri> I could probably just get more involved in more core stuff and get core-dev :P
<cyphermox> or if I catch a second, I'll ask someone directly
<rbasak> mapreri: please do :-)
<cyphermox> ok; moving on
<cyphermox> I'm going "fast" because bdmurray is on a time limit; and we have lots to review
<cyphermox> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
<cpaelzer> rbasak: cyphermox: FYI - mail sent
<cyphermox> ta
<cyphermox> #subtopic Christian Ehrhardt's multipath-tools PPU; and postgres PPU
<cpaelzer> and MOTU?
<cyphermox> we shoudl review PPU separately
<cpaelzer> or is that a seperate chunk of deciding in terms of PPU
<cpaelzer> ok
<cyphermox> ^ I think given the various applications though, both PPU at the same time seems like an optimisation.
<cpaelzer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChristianEhrhardt/MultipathToolsPPUApplication
<bdmurray> Speaking of optimization I'm ready to vote
<cpaelzer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChristianEhrhardt/PostgresPPUApplication
<cyphermox> now we're talkin'.
<rbasak> I have the pleasure of working with cpaelzer. I don't remember being asked for an endorsement, but he has mine for all three applications.
<cpaelzer> rbasak: I didn't ask to not compromise you here for the decision
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: I asked because he is Mr. Multipath
<rbasak> Fair enough
<rbasak> You're getting one here anyway :-P
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: fwiw you should not feel like I "own" multipath-tools
<rbasak> cpaelzer is diligent in his work, always asks when unsure, and his uploads are of very high quality.
<cyphermox> then we
<rbasak> So I'm happy to endorse him for all three applications, and I have no further questions and am ready to vote.
<cyphermox> uggh
<cyphermox> then we're all ready to vote?
<cyphermox> sil2100 ?
<sil2100> I think I don't have any questions myself
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: I do have one.
<bdmurray> I may have one question
<sil2100> Since I also had some experience in reviewing cpaelzer's uploads from the SRU queue
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> bdmurray: you first.
<sil2100> (and sprinting)
<bdmurray> pitti says that there were some regressions in the last round of postgresql SRUs. How can that be avoided going forward?
<cpaelzer> yeah that was "fun" for certain degrees of fun - pitti promised "there would never be some" and just on the first we took over we broke the rule :-)
<cpaelzer> for the details that was on the MRE updates
<cpaelzer> the stable releases changed parts that primarily affected testcases
<cpaelzer> bdmurray: on these in particular there is not much to prevent them other than testing in advance which we did this time as well
<cpaelzer> we knew about them from the dep8 tests on bileto IIRC
<cpaelzer> and I worked through the dependent packages to adapt testcases were needed
<rbasak> Did these regressions hit the updates pocket? It's not clear to me from the bug.
<cpaelzer> it was in some sense dep8 only regressions rbasak
<cpaelzer> so it was stopped in -proposed
<cpaelzer> we analyzed and cleaned up
<rbasak> Ah OK, thanks.
<cpaelzer> and from there things become green and good again
<cpaelzer> bdmurray: there is one thing we can improve on thou
<cpaelzer> which this time was less optimal since this was our first take over from pittei (our = nacc + me)
<cpaelzer> we could have started about 2 days earlier to see it sooner
<cpaelzer> but that was all I'd think on this special case
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: how did you get so tall?
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: or how come am I so short?
<bdmurray> cyphermox: I think its too late for you
<cyphermox> ;)
<bdmurray> cpaelzer: Okay, thanks
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: honestly - stretch while going to sleeping and wishing to grow
<cyphermox> ready to vote?
<cyphermox> bdmurray has a point, too late for me.
<cyphermox> #vote cpaelzer to have PPU rights for multipath-tools
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: as a team we are just the right size on average
<meetingology> Please vote on: cpaelzer to have PPU rights for multipath-tools
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<cyphermox> (specifically multipath-tools, then I'll do the other
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<bdmurray> sil2100: ?
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: cpaelzer to have PPU rights for multipath-tools
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cyphermox> #vote cpaelzer to have PPU rights for postgres
<meetingology> Please vote on: cpaelzer to have PPU rights for postgres
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: cpaelzer to have PPU rights for postgres
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cyphermox> ok, next up is Robert Jennings
<rcj> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/rcj/PerPackageUploadUbuntuCloud
<cyphermox> #topic Robert Jennings PPU application for Ubuntu Cloud packageset
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Robert Jennings PPU application for Ubuntu Cloud packageset
<cyphermox> rcj: please introduce yourself :)
<rcj> Hello.  I've been working on delivery of public cloud images for 3 years and doing packing-related work for those images like open-vm-tools and livecd-rootfs (not in this packageset)
<rcj> and drop-in fixes when I find them
<rcj> I'm applying for PPU rights for UbuntuCloud to service those packages related to image delivery.
<rbasak> The last sponsored upload you made to this package was 2016-04-25, right?
<rbasak> to this packageset
<rcj> That is correct
<rbasak> Is there any reason you haven't uploaded more recently? Eg. no need, or others have been doing it? And how often do you expect you'll need to upload in the near future?
<rcj> A lot of our work is geared toward the infrastructure for delivery.  But we have also grown our team and spread out the packaging work to train others.
<rcj> I expect that uploads will increase however in the near future due to changing workload.
<sil2100> rcj: any reason you want to have the upload rights now instead after doing some sponsored uploads?
<rbasak> Also AFAICT arges sponsored you last in 2015, and that's the only sponsoring endorser on this application.
<rcj> sil2100: I am looking to help out with uploads to provide coverage for the public cloud team
<sil2100> We usually prefer that people get upload rights granted after they already have some experience through packages that are sponsored by others
<rcj> My sponsored uploads are not as current as I'd like, yes
<cyphermox> fwiw, based on the uploads I've reviewed, I'm +0 on this application; I think there isn't much more necessary to make me +1; but there are quite few uploads in general
<cyphermox> that said; the cloud packageset is special in that AFAIK, it doesn't change much
<rcj> And packages like walinuxagent are specific to the environments we directly support
<cyphermox> cloud-init though has been +1d by smoser.
<rbasak> I'm afraid I'm currently -1
<rbasak> We haven't gotten to asking you questions about general Ubuntu development knowledge.
<rbasak> But at a minimum I usually expect to see recent sponsored uploads.
<rbasak> Is there any reason this case is exceptional? Are you having any difficulty in finding sponsors, for example?
<rcj> We are having some troubles and I was asked to bring this forward.  When my uploads were more current I had been told to hold off.
<cyphermox> rcj: how come? seems to me like you could ask just about anyone in your team.
<cyphermox> (such as me, I sponsor lots of stuff)
<rcj> cyphermox: Yes, including the larger team helps.  The desire is to have an additional person with PPU on the cloud delivery team as well.
<cyphermox> right
<rbasak> That's definitely a worthwhile goal.
<rbasak> But the way to achieve that is to have you work with a sponsor for a while, so that we can be confident that you understand the details for this particular set of packages.
<rcj> I can take this back, work on additional sponsored uploads, and bring it forward with further endorsements.
<rbasak> I think even one endorsement is fine, if that sponsor has been working with you closely and recently on a representative sample of the work.
<rcj> Thank you for the feedback.
<cyphermox> rcj: thanks for coming up rcj
<cyphermox> rcj: as previously mentioned, I'm always available to sponsor uploads
<cyphermox> there are no Contributing Developer applications; so moving on
<rcj> cyphermox: Thank you.
<cyphermox> #topic MOTU applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: MOTU applications
<cyphermox> #subtopic cpaelzer's MOTU application
<bdmurray> rcj: I'm happy to be your second choice too
<cpaelzer> sorry, was trying to discuss dpek/libvirt issues - back with you
<cpaelzer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChristianEhrhardt/MOTU-nis-pg-more-Application
<cpaelzer> essentially I got to file the request for the postgres tools around PG itself, but it pops up in many regular tasks
<cpaelzer> nis was one example but this is so old I hope nobody has to touch it too often
<cpaelzer> but in general MOTU things showed up in our server bug triage sometimes
<cpaelzer> when bugs start at server packages but solutions grow out of there
<cpaelzer> also on bug squashing day activities I hit a few
<cpaelzer> and finally on patch piloting
<cpaelzer> which by the needs a calendar update
<rbasak> I recall a few of these.
<cpaelzer> is anybody taking at least the scheduling over from daniel?
<rbasak> As well as pg-*, there's also dovecot-antispam for example.
<cpaelzer> right that as well
<rbasak> So I think it's about time we just gave cpaelzer MOTU so he doesn't need to keep getting exceptions.
<cpaelzer> as I said it seems the server-work grows out of the server upload set the deeper I get into working with all of this
<cpaelzer> and this lead me to this MOTU applications with these explicit examples, but it might jsut as well another package next week
<cpaelzer> the former PPUs where core-dev + personal - so they didn't apply as MOTU exception
<cyphermox> what about some of the sponsored packages; do you have endorsements from xnox or nacc to go along with them?
<cyphermox> rbasak: same story; why not write an endorsement for cpaelzer?
 * nacc wasn't asked or forgot if he was :)
<cpaelzer> I didn't collect all of them for endorsement - we might ping them if you want
<nacc> happy to do it, but probably not during the meeting right now
<bdmurray> i thought there were some endorsements on his core dev app
<cpaelzer> bdmurray: yes, there were from when we downgraded it about a year ago
<cpaelzer> I also started collecting core-dev reasoning bug work, but the list isn't long enough yet to show up here with that yet
<cyphermox> well, in that case, why aren't we reviewing a core-dev application?
<cpaelzer> you can decide the track record or not, I can paste the list of this year
<cpaelzer> I only started in late January
<rbasak> cyphermox: I wasn't asked, but I'm happy to provide the same IRC endorsement as I did above.
<cpaelzer> bug 1675770 lvm more than 8 stripes
<ubottu> bug 1675770 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "lvcreate cannot use more than 8 stripes" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1675770
<cpaelzer> bug 1668093 openssh ssh-keyscan -H clobber
<ubottu> bug 1668093 in openssh (Ubuntu Yakkety) "ssh-keygen -H corrupts already hashed entries" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1668093
<cpaelzer> bug 1670745 openssh ssh-keyscan port
<ubottu> bug 1670745 in openssh (Ubuntu Yakkety) "ssh-keyscan : bad host signature when using port option" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1670745
<cpaelzer> bug 1673491 libnl crash
<ubottu> bug 1673491 in libvirt (Ubuntu) "[Zesty] libnl3 Segmentation fault in sriov environments" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1673491
<cpaelzer> bug 1630516 logrotate fails to overwrite
<ubottu> bug 1630516 in logrotate (Ubuntu Yakkety) "Logrotate doesn't clean old system logs, allowing them to fill the disk" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1630516
<cpaelzer> in case you want to check a few
<rbasak> I'm talked to cpaelzer about core dev before.
<rbasak> Back then I wasn't sure if he had enough wide ranging stuff.
<cyphermox> rbasak: I feel we're wasting time if there are already sufficient endorsements for core-dev and the work to show for it; then we might as well review a core-dev application; if all the DMB members here agree.
<rbasak> I don't think cpaelzer has dealt with everything a core dev might have to deal with, for example a transition.
<rbasak> In the past, that was holding me back from recommending that he apply for core dev.
<cyphermox> ok, in that case, are we ready to vote?
<rbasak> But I think I've reached the stage now that I'd be happy to endorse him anyway. He's very active in uploading, not being able to upload stuff tends to block him, and he's careful and diligent.
<rbasak> I'm sure he knows more about library ABI matters than I do, and I supposedly have handled transitions.
<cyphermox> we need to try to hold everyone to the same standard though; if anybody else had not done a transition, would you support a core-dev application?
<cpaelzer> DPDK forces me to do so on that end
<cpaelzer> btw I brought the hopefully final fix to that upstream - no next merge we will finally have saner ABI in that
<cyphermox> given time constraints, we should vote now if nobody has questions
<rbasak> No further questions.
<cpaelzer> and I'll soon work with nacc on PG transition into aa so I'll get guided through my first one
<rbasak> Sorry, I missed your question
<cyphermox> #vote cpaelzer to join  MOTU
<meetingology> Please vote on: cpaelzer to join  MOTU
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<cyphermox> bdmurray: ?
<cyphermox> he might have had to leave
<rbasak> if anybody else had not done a transition, would you support a core-dev application> yes, if there was enough material to weigh up to a +1.
<sil2100> I think I saw sufficient for MOTU, so:
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<cyphermox> I pinged infinity, just in case.
<rbasak> While we're waiting...
<cyphermox> yeah?
<rbasak> cpaelzer tends to fix things that he touches, and I haven't seen evidence that he's ever made an error that an existing core dev wouldn't make.
<bdmurray> sorry, +1 for MOTU
<cyphermox> cool
<rbasak> And he's very active across the archive.
<cyphermox> rbasak: I know
<cyphermox> at this point it's more trying to finish the meeting than anything else given that bdmurray could only stay for an hour
<rbasak> So I think that perhaps outweighs my "no transition" point in a way that other applicants haven't convinced me in the past.
<rbasak> Sure
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: cpaelzer to join  MOTU
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<rbasak> The 4th was from bdmurray and hadn't registered with meetingology I think?
<cyphermox> (bdmurray's +1 is above but didn't register because it wasn't the first thing on the line)
<bdmurray> yeah, my bad
<rbasak> I'd be happy to take the post-meeting actions for cpaelzer
<rbasak> Perhaps easiest as he's on my team?
<cyphermox> ack
<cyphermox> [ACTION] rbasak to handle cpaelzer's upload rights modifications
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to handle cpaelzer's upload rights modifications
<cpaelzer> thanks everybody
<cyphermox> no SRU or core-dev applications
<rbasak> I had a couple of items for AOB.
<cyphermox> anythign outstanding on the mailing list first?
<rbasak> Ah, that was one of those.
<cyphermox> we can make it AOB
<cyphermox> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<rbasak> Iulian Udrea "Reactivation of ~iulian's membership in ~motu"
<bdmurray> I've got to get moving but will read scrollback.
<rbasak> Does this need a majority vote?
<rbasak> bdmurray: thank you for attending!
<cyphermox> does what need?
<cyphermox> iulian's request?
<rbasak> Yes
<sil2100> Do we have a policy for such things?
<sil2100> I know for short deprecations we just 'did it'
<cyphermox> I think we should just do it
<rbasak> Do we know how long his break is?
<rbasak> I think we should at the least understand when and why the membership ceased.
<cyphermox> * Iulian Udrea (~iulian) expired from motu (on 2017-01-04)
<cyphermox> I don't know whether he has core-dev before that expired earlier, but he's also still in motu-release (assuming this is still useful)
<rbasak> Ah
<rbasak> That's fine then I guess.
<cyphermox> I also do have AOB, but it's a FYI only
<rbasak> My other team was on my email "Ordering of decisions to create a packageset and a first uploader"
<cyphermox> ~langpack-uploader was showing up in the team monitoring emails; I fixed that to be skipped
<rbasak> I'd like to achieve consensus on that, but nobody has replied.
<rbasak> My other item
<cyphermox> I think doing the work doesn't need to happen until it really does (ie there is an uploader), but we can still vote and approve a packageset before there are uploaders.
<rbasak> Define "approve a packageset" please.
<cyphermox> voting for it; deciding that it makes sense.
<rbasak> For Budgie, would that mean "#vote A packageset defined as "Ubuntu Budgie" will be created?
<rbasak> "
<cyphermox> rbasak: I don't think that one is a good example
<rbasak> Or anything more extensive?
<rbasak> Well, that's the one where we ended up in a twist.
<cyphermox> the Ubuntu Budgie packageset should be an automatic seed-based one.
<cyphermox> otherwise a "PPU" kind of packageset for a subset of those, which is what David was asking for previously.
<cyphermox> in that case, it probably needs that that decision be informed by both what will go in that packageset initially, what it's used for (there might be a better way to do things) and whether the person asking for it is likely to have their application approved; as if they don't, then someone else or the same person might ask for something quite different later.
<cyphermox> but all this is probably best left for the mailing list.
<rbasak> Please do reply to the mailing list.
<cyphermox> is this all?
<rbasak> That's all I had, thanks.
<cyphermox> cool. I think that's it for this meeting then
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 10 16:13:31 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-04-10-15.01.moin.txt
<cyphermox> and I need to go grab a quick lunch
<rbasak> cyphermox: thank you for chairing!
<sil2100> Thanks!
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 10 16:37:50 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jjohansen> o/
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hey
<jdstrand> last week I mostly caught up on snappy reviews, the tty one remains
<jdstrand> this week working on various snapd policy updates for zesty
<jdstrand> start looking at wayland/gnome3 interfaces
<jdstrand> have a few review tools updates to do
<jdstrand> need to poke at devs for k8s snaps to get k8s interface moving again
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I have a short week today, I go on vacation tomorrow
<mdeslaur> I'm working on en embargoed issue
<mdeslaur> I have webkit2gtk updates to publish also
<mdeslaur> that's about it
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> I have some kernel signoffs to do
<sbeattie> I'll be looking at the list for updates to do
<sbeattie> There's also some apparmor list mail for me to go through as well.
<sbeattie> that's probably it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> sbeattie: thanks - think it'll be important for you to pick up some updates this week
<tyhicks> I'm on bug triage this week
<tyhicks> I just reviewed a snapd PR regarding device key generation and did some additional research around that
<tyhicks> I'll be hashing out a few more details regarding the seccomp logging work on the lkml and hopefully will be able to start finalizing the seccomp v5 patch set within a day or two
<tyhicks> still doing some 12.04 ESM prep
<tyhicks> and I still need to do some upstream ecryptfs work to review PRs
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I have some bugs I am working on/need to follow up on. An rlimit issue that has surfaced in zesty (1679704)
<jjohansen> a ptrace issue, that there is no bug for yet, and I am not sure the user understands what is going on (so a quick check hopefully)
<jjohansen> and then upstreaming work
<jjohansen> unless directed otherwise
<tyhicks> sounds good to me
<jjohansen> thats it for /me sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm on cve triage; it's a shotr week for me, off thurs, friday, and monday next week too
<sarnold> shadow still hangs over my head
<sarnold> as does mellon
<sarnold> lasso, rather
<sarnold> anyway, that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got an embargoed update to do this week
<chrisccoulson> In addition to that, I'm trying to debug a firefox crash (struggling to focus on this though tbh)
<chrisccoulson> And I need to reach out to mozilla to discuss the start page
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<ratliff> I'm in the happy place this week
<ratliff> I have to finalize my charts and script for the webinar
<ratliff> I am reviewing the flavors CVE pages script to see if it can be tweaked
<ratliff> If there is more time, I'll do vivd updates
<ratliff> back to you, tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/uglifyjs.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tripleo-heat-templates.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/festival.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/racket.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-gettext.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 10 16:54:09 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-04-10-16.37.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)
<chatter29> hey guys
<chatter29> allah is doing
<chatter29> sun is not doing allah is doing
<chatter29> to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-04-11
<rbasak> o/
<nacc> o/
<nacc> i'm covering for jgrimm-away
<rbasak> Many of us Canonical staff are tied up in an internal meeting right now.
<rbasak> Maybe we need to defer or cancel?
<nacc> yeah, can we defer for 15 or so?
<rbasak> Yeah let's defer 15 and see.
<nacc> heh, the server team meeting isn't on fridge
<rbasak> I was going to mention that. I blame smoser :-P
<nacc> +1
<rbasak> Still going. I suggest we cancel this week's meeting.
<rbasak> Any objections?
<caribou> rbasak: fine with it
<nacc> rbasak: thanks, agreed
<nacc> rbasak: do you want to send an e-mail to the ml?
<rbasak> ack
<nacc> rbasak: thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-04-13
<xnox> o/
<xnox> that was Laney !!!!!!
<xnox> Le Twat
<Laney> !ohmy
<ubottu> Please avoid any language that may be considered offensive, including acronyms and obfuscation of such - also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines || The main channels are English only, for other languages, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<xnox> lolz
 * lan3y was very offended
<bdmurray> !ohmy
<ubottu> Please avoid any language that may be considered offensive, including acronyms and obfuscation of such - also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines || The main channels are English only, for other languages, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<cyphermox> I think there should be a georgetakei alias.
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-04-09
<sil2100> o/
<rbasak> o/
<micahg`> o/
<rbasak> handsome_feng: are you here?
<bdmurray> o/
<handsome_feng> rbasak: Yes :)
<rbasak> We have quorum I think?
<sil2100> I think we do, yes
<rbasak> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  9 15:02:28 2018 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<jbicha> o/
<rbasak> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<rbasak>     jbicha to add slahd to ubuntu-core-dev and send announcements (done)
<rbasak> That's done then :)
<rbasak> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
<rbasak> #subtopic handsome_feng applying for ~ubuntukylin-dev
<rbasak> handsome_feng: welcome! Please could you introduce your application?
<handsome_feng> Hello,everyone, I'm handsome_feng, I've been an member of ubuntu kylin for more than 3 years,and I'm one of the administrators of that team, my main duties these days are develop/maintain UKUI and other kylin packages, and still sorry for my poor english,  I may reply you a bit slowly. Thanks! :) for reference: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/handsome_feng/UbuntuKylinDeveloperApplication
<handsome_feng> Any questions? :)
 * sil2100 is still reading the application
<bdmurray> handsome_feng: Your application has nothing in the "What I like least in Ubuntu" section. Is there nothing you like least?
<jbicha> handsome_feng: several UKUI packages are in Debian but they haven't been updated there recently. How would you get them updated in Debian?
<cyphermox> handsome_feng: do you have examples of your work that are not ukui -- that are things you currently do not have access to upload yourself, not sponsored by Simon?
<handsome_feng> bdmurray: Sorry, Maybe I missed that, but in fact, I have never thought that, I always notice the things I like
<handsome_feng> jbicha: I will file a itp bug, but now we are focus on the update of UKUI and other kylin packages, when we finish the work in ubuntu , we will do that
<jbicha> handsome_feng: ITP (Intent to Package) bugs are only for packages that are not yet in Debian. I'm curious if you know how to update packages that are in Debian
<handsome_feng> cyphermox: In 17.10, the new ukui packages are uploaded by jbicha, does that counted?
<cyphermox> handsome_feng: no, I mean things you upload that needed to be sponsored by someone
<handsome_feng> jbicha: eee, sorry, I thought you mean the new ukui packages, to update an packages already in debian, we should upload it to mentors.debian.net and send RFS
<jbicha> handsome_feng: thank you. That was the answer I was looking for :)
<handsome_feng> cyphermox: When I have sometings that I need to be sponsored, I will file a bug, and subscribe ubuntu-sponrner team
<jbicha> handsome_feng: I think you've only done one SRU. Is there a reason you haven't done more stable release updates?
<handsome_feng> jbicha: We will do that when it need an sru, but the version before 17.10, we only have some applications in the iso, so we didn't need or we didn't find a bug in that applications
<jbicha> ok
<handsome_feng> cyphermox:  except UKUI, I also maintain kylin-greeter, ubuntukylin-default-settings
<handsome_feng> ubuntu-kylin-docs and so on
<handsome_feng> cyphermox: Do I understand your question correctly?
<rbasak> handsome_feng: could you find some good examples of your sponsored uploads, please, that demonstrate the most complex type of work you've done on this packageset?
<cyphermox> handsome_feng: yes, thanks
<handsome_feng> rbasak: Maybe peony-extensions? I combine caja-extensions and engrampa.
<rbasak> handsome_feng: which specific upload (including version) are you referring to please?
<rbasak> handsome_feng: for me, a key part of assessing your application is to examine your work. Specifically your uploads for which you required sponsorship that you will no longer require sponsorship if your application is successful.
<rbasak> handsome_feng: right now I'm struggling to find this work.
<handsome_feng> rbasak: The initial version of peony-extensions, I update the rules and compat to fit the new debian policy, and check the license, fix the lintian warrings
<rbasak> handsome_feng: OK. Do you have other examples please?
<micahg`> right, but that's also something you maintain compared to other things in the UbuntuKylin packageset that aren't created by you
<micahg`> s/maintain/created/
<handsome_feng> micahg`: During the test of ubuntu kylin 18.04 beta, we find a bug in mate-terminal, we will file a bug about that , and support an patch. If a package in not maintain by me, I will not upload it directly, I will ping the owner.
<micahg`> my point was, I think rbasak is looking for stuff that you've worked with in the UbuntuKylin flavour packageset that's outside of the packages that UbuntuKylin itself created
<rbasak> Right.
<handsome_feng> rbasak: Before upload an package, I always do that work(check the diff, build, and test)
<rbasak> handsome_feng: I cannot assess an application without seeing examples of sponsored uploads.
<rbasak> handsome_feng: I think you should update your application wiki to add links to them
<rbasak> handsome_feng: they should be examples your work that required sponsorship and are in the packageset to which you're requesting direct upload access.
<rbasak> handsome_feng: that's my personal opinion. Until I have this list and have reviewed it, I am not in favour of progressing your application.
<rbasak> This isn't a rejection your application - I just feel that it is incomplete at the moment.
<sil2100> I think most of handsome_feng's recent uploads are in the kylin packageset, so in theory those should fit your description
<sil2100> Even though those were NEW uploads, I assume those will not stay in the initial versions forever
<rbasak> How should we proceed?
<bdmurray> I also would like to have the examples rbasak has requested.
<handsome_feng> rbasak: Sorry, give me a litter more time, I'm looking up the dictionary..
<micahg`> +1
<micahg`> to the information :)
<handsome_feng> Do you mean things like this?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ukui-settings-daemon/+bug/1760557 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1760557 in ukui-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Update ukui-settings-daemon from 1.1.5 to 1.1.6" [Undecided,Fix released]
<handsome_feng> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ukui-panel/+bug/1760789
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1760789 in ukui-panel (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Update ukui-panel from 1.1.2 to 1.1.3" [Undecided,Fix released]
<sil2100> handsome_feng: ok, so we're discussing this now, and this is what we would like to get from you:
<sil2100> handsome_feng: could you provide a list of your sponsored uploads that were not NEW packages but updates to existing packages in ubuntukylin?
<rbasak> Please link directly to the upload. Example: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ukui-session-manager/1.1.1-0ubuntu1
<rbasak> We can find any relevant bugs from there.
<sil2100> handsome_feng: you have recently published a lot of NEW packages, but we'd like to see a list of your uploads that were existing package updates
<handsome_feng> sil2100, rbasak: Ok , I got you, sorry for my poor english...
<rbasak> handsome_feng: no problem. We will look into improving the documentation for the application process.
<rbasak> We are already over time. Shall we defer your application to the next meeting so that you have a chance to do that?
<handsome_feng> rbasak: Fine, and sorry for the trouble, I will update my wiki page.
<rbasak> #topic Expiring DMB seats
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Expiring DMB seats
<rbasak> I stuck this topic in to make sure it gets addressed.
<rbasak> jbicha: I believe you're looking in to this? Mind if we give you an action for it please?
<sil2100> Would be nice if we had the call for nominations ASAP, so that we have a DMB for the next meeting
<jbicha> yes, does this look fine but bumping the number from "three valid nominations" to six? http://paste.debian.net/hidden/5ae4128b
<micahg`> jbicha: can we say their membership is expiring please?
<jbicha> s/will be expiring shortly/are expiring  ? sure, I guess
<micahg`> or have reached the end of their terms?
<rbasak> +1 to your pastebin and amendement
<rbasak> #action jbicha to arrange call for nominations and election if required
<meetingology> ACTION: jbicha to arrange call for nominations and election if required
<rbasak> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<rbasak> #subtopic Ubuntu GNOME packageset update
<rbasak> I'm not sure what this means. Is someone organising an update?
<jbicha> no real news about Ubuntu GNOME except there was a La_ney email today
<jbicha> we're waiting on darkxst to update the seed
<rbasak> #info We're waiting on darkxst to update the seed
<rbasak> Thanks
<rbasak> That's the end of the agenda.
<rbasak> AO AOB/
<rbasak> ?
<rbasak> Thanks all!
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  9 16:26:53 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-04-09-15.02.moin.txt
<micahg`> I think we should request a 1 month extension from the TB for the terms that are ending
<micahg`> sorry I wasn't fast enough
<rbasak> +1
<rbasak> micahg`: would you be OK to take the action for that please?
<micahg`> sure
<jbicha> I can request that extension too
<rbasak> I see no reason we need quorum to agree that or anything.
<rbasak> Since it'll be a TB decision and anyone can obviously opt out.
<sil2100> rbasak: thanks for chairing!
<sil2100> As a side-note, as already mentioned on the ML I have refreshed the packagesets today
<sil2100> So if anyone notices anything fishy, please poke
 * ratliff looks around to see if the room is cleared and ready for the security team meeting :)
<ratliff> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  9 16:34:25 2018 UTC.  The chair is ratliff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ratliff> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<ratliff> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<ratliff> We have no announcements this week.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<ratliff> jdstrand: you're up
<mdeslaur> \o
<ratliff> mdeslaur: why don't you go ahead. it looks like jdstrand is still wrapping up from a previous discussion
<mdeslaur> I'm on bug triage this week
<mdeslaur> I'm working on publishing some updates
<mdeslaur> at the moment
<jdstrand> sorry, I'm here. I'll go after mdeslaur
<mdeslaur> and I have a couple of embargoed issues to look at
<mdeslaur> if I have time, I'll pick something else off the list
<mdeslaur> that's about it, jdstrand, you're up
<jdstrand> https://github.com/ubuntu
<jdstrand> let me try that again
<jdstrand> This week I plan to work on:
<jdstrand> - finish up miscellaneous updates branches for snapd (should be done this morning)
<jdstrand> - enabling resquashfs enforcement in the review tools
<jdstrand> - snap/usn notification (will start today)
<jdstrand> - attend to high priority snapd reviews
<jdstrand> - address conntrack deprecation issues in ufw for 18.04 SRU as have time
<jdstrand> ratliff: note on the last point, I'm going to fix in SRU rather than release
<ratliff> jdstrand: ack
<jdstrand> ratliff: it requires a bit of work to do correctly and I got pulled aside in different ways last week
<jdstrand> I worked on it, but not enough to have it ready for release
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on cve triage this week
<sbeattie> I also have a bunch of kernel cve triage and signoffs to look at
<sbeattie> I'm still working on the gcc-4.6 retpoline backport.
<sbeattie> I also have a kernel qrt issue for bionic's kernel to sort out.
<sbeattie> if I have time, I'll pick up an update.
<sbeattie> that's it for me. sarnold, I think you're next?
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week, running down the MIRs
<sarnold> pv at the moment, I think socat up next
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson I think?
<chrisccoulson> I'm expecting to have to do another thunderbird update this week
<chrisccoulson> I've also got a couple of embargoed issues
<chrisccoulson> I also plan to go through and triage all of the spidermonkey CVEs
<chrisccoulson> I need to get python3.5 backported to trusty, as well as work on rust 1.25 updates, so I'm not too hopeful about being able to do anything fun this week
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<ratliff> I'm in the happy place this week.
<ratliff> I need to load the CVE triage data since January into Influx for the kpis.
<ratliff> I have some internal work to do.
<ratliff> I have sprint prep work.
<ratliff> leosilva: you are up
<leosilva> I'm community this week.
<leosilva> I have a patch update to work
<leosilva> Also a ruby cve triage/research before follow with ruby`s rounds 2 update
<leosilva> other than that I'll hunting and grab new pkgs to udpate
<leosilva> ratliff: it's back to you
<jjohansen> I guess I'll squeeze in last
<jjohansen> this week I am working on
<jjohansen> - finishing up with LSM stacking work for bionic
<jjohansen> - backporting all existing apparmor bug fixes for bionic
<jjohansen> - the 4.17 apparmor pull request
<jjohansen> - working on bug 1679704
<jjohansen> - finishing up with the 2.13 changes for suse
<jjohansen> - once that is done maybe I can start poking at the prompt mode work
<ubottu> bug 1679704 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "libvirt profile is blocking global setrlimit despite having no rlimit rule" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679704
<jjohansen> ratliff: back to you
<ratliff> thanks, jjohansen!
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<ratliff> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<ratliff> See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<ratliff> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jbicha> y'all decided against doing a bionic archive-rebuild for spectre mitigation, right?
<ratliff> jbicha: yes
<ratliff> the performance regression was too high for a questionable security return
<jbicha> performance regression? are only certain whitelisted packages using repotline?
<jbicha> anyway, I don't want to hold up your meeting
<ratliff> jbicha: we can discuss in #ubuntu-hardened
<ratliff> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson, leosilva: Thanks!
<jbicha> sure, thanks
<ratliff> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  9 16:53:29 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-04-09-16.34.moin.txt
<sbeattie> ratliff: thanks!
<jdstrand> thanks ratliff! :)
<jjohansen> thanks ratliff
<doko> chrisccoulson: python3.5 for mozilla?
<chrisccoulson> doko, yeah :(
<sarnold> thanks ratliff!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-04-10
 * tsimonq2 waves, albeit a few mins early
<mdeslaur> tsimonq2: if you're looking for the tech board meeting, it's usually in #ubuntu-meeting-2
<tsimonq2> mdeslaur: Same irssi win. Thanks.
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-04-12
 * slangasek waves
<rbalint> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 12 15:00:59 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther juliank)
<slangasek> xnox juliank rcj rbalint cyphermox tribaal philroche infinity fginther sil2100 doko mwhudson slangasek bdmurray tdaitx Odd_Bloke
<slangasek> xnox: hello
<sil2100> o/
<xnox> skip
<juliank> oh, I'm early today
<juliank> * SRUed apt in trusty for bug 1332440
<ubottu> bug 1332440 in apt (Ubuntu Trusty) "apt-get update very slow when ulimit -n is big" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1332440
<juliank> * added missing b-d on dh-python to update-notifier [archive rebuild FTBFS fix]
<juliank> * uploaded networkd-dispatcher to bionic
<juliank> * wrote JSON hooks for APT, for upcoming snap integration (needs some more detail work)
<juliank> * fixed scripts/blkdeactivate.sh.in in lvm2/dmsetup to refer to /usr/bin/sort, not /bin/sort
<juliank> * fixed python-apt
<juliank>   - test FTBFS
<juliank>   - invalid read in tag file
<juliank>   - potential out-of-bounds/wrong elements accesses in DepCache (check that objects passed belong to same cache, bug 1737441)
<ubottu> bug 1737441 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu Bionic) "/usr/bin/unattended-upgrade:11:__GI___libc_free:operator:__gnu_cxx::new_allocator:std::allocator_traits:std::__cxx11::basic_string" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1737441
<juliank> * verified the APT SRU from above
<juliank> * reported bug about different thermal and power limits on T480s ...
<juliank> (done)
<bdmurray> rcj:
 * xnox is ready
<xnox> subiquity work w.r.t. slow boot
<xnox> subiquity work w.r.t. offline MAAS installer
<xnox> fixing upgrade bugs in resolvconf; rsyslog
<xnox> working on resolvconf & bionic in a cloud
<xnox> uploaded systemd with a few safe fixes
<xnox> done.
<bdmurray> rbalint: since rcj is somewhere else?
<rbalint> * found a few memory handling bugs in unattended-upgrades and in python-apt and fixed them with juliank,
<rbalint>   still working on some issues left
<rbalint> * updated rax-nova-agent, still working on some issues left
<rbalint> * updated libnfs to 2.0.0 in Debian, maybe it enters Ubuntu before the release
<rbalint> (done)
<cyphermox> - back from vacation
<cyphermox> - ubiquity release 18.04.5
<cyphermox> - slideshow updates
<cyphermox> - shim reviews
<cyphermox> - MIR review
<cyphermox> - netplan bugfixing: accept-ra defaults, bridge carrier bind (in progress)
<cyphermox> - working on shim-signed migration to self-signed DKMS modules
<cyphermox> (done)
<philroche> tribaal is OoO
<philroche> * Deliver early preview of Bionic to public clouds
<philroche> * Cloud image build system Vanguard
<philroche> (done)
<bdmurray> don't see infinity
<bdmurray> fginther:
<fginther> * Debug bionic image build and test issues
<fginther> * Ensured that new releases images were published for trusty, xenial and artful
<fginther> * Investigated issues impacting AWS HVM release image publication and ultimately was able to get them published correctly
<fginther> * Updated firewall rules and related automation scripts
<fginther> * Wrapping up work to enable automated image publication to a partner cloud
<fginther> * Some manual lxd testing on cloud images
<fginther> * Addressed issue with minimal images impacting publication of certain base images
<fginther> * Other build system vanguard work
<fginther> (done)
<fginther> sil2100:
<sil2100> - DMB Meeting
<sil2100> - Refreshing packagesets
<sil2100> - Bionic queue reviews
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - FFe reviews
<sil2100> - Reviewing the NEW networkd-dispatcher package
<sil2100> - Investigating cxlflash licensing issues with Steve
<sil2100> - Running security-britney locally with a local rabbitmq server, preliminary charm tests
<sil2100>   * Figuring out how to nicely present the results from the instance
<sil2100> - Reviewing livecd-rootfs MP for pre-seeding snaps
<sil2100> - Looking into possible dragonboard ubuntu-image classic gadget work
<sil2100> - Started work on rp3 u-boot changes
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> doko:
<cyphermox> sil2100: if you need testing for rp3; I do have one connected here doing nothing.
<sil2100> cyphermox: it'll be a while until its in a testable state ;)
<cyphermox> (I can potentially give you VPN access or whatever)
<tdaitx> slangasek: gaughen said that doko was out today and tomorrow
<bdmurray> go rcj
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * snap preseed support added for binary/chroot hooks in livecd-rootfs
<rcj> * cloud-image reviews, care, and feeding
<rcj> * partner image development work
<rcj> (done)
<slangasek>  * driving to release
<slangasek>  * took the baton to finish off beta last Thursday
<slangasek>   * landed a few bugfixes in ubiquity related to ubiquity-dm startup and VTs
<slangasek>  * followed through on some removals of uninstallable-not-buggy packages in -proposed, leading to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2018-April/004405.html
<slangasek>  * worked to triage priorities for the last sprint iteration before release
<slangasek>  * fixing packages stuck in -proposed, and now looking at FTBFS from the archive test rebuild http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/rebuilds/test-rebuild-20180408-bionic.html
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> bug triage of foundations team bugs
<bdmurray> cherrypicked upstream patch for LP: #1692420
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for whoopsie bug LP: #1756937
<bdmurray> investigation into screen bug LP: #1761997
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1692420 in powerpc-utils (Ubuntu) "[SRU] powerpc-utils commands exhibits "command substitution: ignored null byte in input" warning message" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1692420
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1756937 in whoopsie (Ubuntu Bionic) "report_crashes setting not written" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756937
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1761997 in screen (Ubuntu) "/var/run needs mode 777 in bionic" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761997
<bdmurray> research into apt-clone / dpkg bug LP: #1756862
<bdmurray> SRU verification of X and A apport changes re JournalErrors (LP: #1738581)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1756862 in apt-clone (Ubuntu Bionic) "upgrade from 17.10 to 18.04 - apt-clone crashed with SystemError in commit(): installArchives() failed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756862
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1738581 in apport (Ubuntu Artful) "apport attachment JounralErrors should only be included for crash reports which are private" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1738581
<bdmurray> tested apport bug LP: #1762438 (ubuntu-bug traceback)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1762438 in apport (Ubuntu) "stack trace when filing bug (ubuntu-bug systemd)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762438
<bdmurray> worked on figuring out why a couple of core files are hanging the retraces
<bdmurray> â done
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK 10 as default JDK
<tdaitx>   - more rebuilds (testing new syncs/fixes)
<tdaitx>   - classified 122 build errors due to openjdk-10 being set as default (javadoc & surefire nullpointer, javadoc invalid uri, javah, invalid source/target, boot classpath issues, doclets)
<tdaitx>   - fixing NullPointerException in surefire/javadoc maven plugins due to old libcommons-lang3-java (Debian #895234)
<tdaitx>   - investigating the need for --release so packages can still be built with openjdk-8
<ubottu> Debian bug 895234 in src:libcommons-lang3-java "libcommons-lang3-java: update for OpenJDK 10 and OpenJDK 11" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/895234
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK 8 security update (8u171) due to April 17
<tdaitx>   - investigating s390x javac segfault
<tdaitx> (done)
<gaughen> â
<fginther> âsweet
<slangasek> ç¥
<gaughen> â
<xnox> â
<xnox> wow
<bdmurray> 78Â°
<slangasek> any questions on status?
<sil2100> Â°
<xnox> ð
<slangasek> aahhh noooo
<xnox> ð
<xnox> ð
<bdmurray> no
<gaughen> â
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<rcj> ctrl-shift-u followed by unicode number works again ^
<bdmurray> so I think bug 1756862 is a dpkg issue
<ubottu> bug 1756862 in apt-clone (Ubuntu Bionic) "upgrade from 17.10 to 18.04 - apt-clone crashed with SystemError in commit(): installArchives() failed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756862
<bdmurray> Is the last screenshot helpful?
<slangasek> (what's the unicode sequence fo Debug::pkgDPkgPM)
<gaughen> bdmurray, should this be resolved by release?
<bdmurray> gaughen: it is targetted to bionic
<rbalint> slangasek:  "Debug::pkgDPkgPM" itself is a unicode sequence
<gaughen> yes, but given we're 2 weeks from release, I wanted your thughts on should this be fixed for GA or is it something to SRU
<gaughen> okay looking through my list, this was one we were trying to resolve for release.
<bdmurray> I've just added another screenshot if that helps.
<rbalint> i believe the ubiquity upgrade feature may have been useful in the past but i think it is not really useful today
<bdmurray> I believe it was broken in 17.10 too but nobody complained loudly
<slangasek> looks like this feature is unreliable and we don't have resources to support it
<slangasek> so we should remove this feature from the ubiquity menu
<bdmurray> Okay, moving on. I don't see anything new on rls-incoming
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else today?
<sil2100> All good
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 12 15:36:19 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-04-12-15.00.moin.txt
<bdmurray> nopety nope
<sil2100> slangasek: thanks!
<slangasek> thanks!
<gaughen> thank you slangasek
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-04-08
<sil2100> o/
<rbasak> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<fossfreedom_> hi
<sil2100> I suppose we need 1 more for quorum, right?
<sil2100> tsimonq2 mentioned he'll be 15 minutes late
<sil2100> fossfreedom_: can you wait 15 minutes in case no one else appears?
<fossfreedom_> sure
<sil2100> Thank you
<rbasak> slashd sends his apologies - urgent last minute work commitment
<tsimonq2> Hi, sorry for the delay.
<sil2100> tsimonq2: no worries o/
<sil2100> I guess we've got quorum
<sil2100> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  8 15:14:42 2019 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<sil2100> (I'll chair I guess)
<sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<sil2100> tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<sil2100> I suppose this is still ongoing, right?
<tsimonq2> Sorry, punt.
<tsimonq2> Yeah.
<sil2100> Let's carry it over then
<sil2100> slashd to follow up on the APAC Ubuntu community coverage (carried over) <- slashd is not with us today so let's carry this over as well
<sil2100> #action tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<sil2100> #action slashd to follow up on the APAC Ubuntu community coverage (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: slashd to follow up on the APAC Ubuntu community coverage (carried over)
<sil2100> tsimonq2, jbicha and micahg to vote on "give Rosco2 upload rights to the ubuntustudio packageset - so to the current packageset and however it will look in the nearest future" <- this is done as votes happened via e-mail
<sil2100> slashd to add acheronuk to MOTU <- I suppose this was done? /me checks
<acheronuk> sil2100: someone did!
<sil2100> Yes, it's done I see o/
<sil2100> slashd to announce acheronuk's successful MOTU application <- I think this was done as well, but not sure if Eric did send it to all the required lists
<sil2100> So let's carry it over for now
<acheronuk> there was an email
<acheronuk> might have been cyphermox
<sil2100> #action Check if slashd announced acheronuk's successful MOTU application everywhere where needed (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: Check if slashd announced acheronuk's successful MOTU application everywhere where needed (carried over)
<sil2100> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
<sil2100> #subtopic fossfreedom
<sil2100> fossfreedom_: hello o/
<fossfreedom_> hi!
<sil2100> fossfreedom_: I guess we all know you already, but from the formal POV, could you introduce yourself? ;)
<sil2100> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/fossfreedom/UbuntuBudgiePackageSetApplication
<fossfreedom_> My name is David Mohammed, I am the project lead of UB and I am today asking for consideration of packageset permissions for our project
<sil2100> fossfreedom_: you currently have PPU rights to the main budgie packages, correct?
<fossfreedom_> (btw thanks for refreshing the packageset list)
<fossfreedom_> Yes - correct - I've listed those in the application also
<sil2100> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/disco/personal-fossfreedom
<sil2100> cyphermox, tsimonq2, rbasak: any questions?
<sil2100> (this is the list of current package upload permissions ^)
<rbasak> No questions from me
<tsimonq2> None from me either.
<sil2100> cyphermox: ?
<cyphermox> no
<sil2100> Excellent
<sil2100> #vote Granting upload permissions to the ubuntu-budgie packageset to fossfreedom_
<meetingology> Please vote on: Granting upload permissions to the ubuntu-budgie packageset to fossfreedom_
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<sil2100> +1 (I have seen many uploads and SRUs from fossfreedom_ and I was always happy with them)
<meetingology> +1 (I have seen many uploads and SRUs from fossfreedom_ and I was always happy with them) received from sil2100
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<tsimonq2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tsimonq2
<sil2100> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Granting upload permissions to the ubuntu-budgie packageset to fossfreedom_
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<sil2100> fossfreedom_: congratulations o/
<tsimonq2> Congrats!
<cyphermox> fossfreedom_: congrats
<fossfreedom_> many thanks all - on behalf of our project ... much appreciation
<sil2100> Does anyone remember what in this case should happen to the PPU permissions we have set up for fossfreedom_ in the past?
<sil2100> Should we just leave it?
<rbasak> Is the package a strict superset of personal-fossfreedom?
<sil2100> rbasak: I see at least one package missing in ubuntu-budgie packageset in comparison to the personal-fossfreedom one
<sil2100> But maybe it's not needed anymore (since not seeded?)
<sil2100> budgie-welcome
<fossfreedom_> which one?
<rbasak> I wasn't around when personal-fossfreedom was created. IMHO that wasn't the intention of personal packagesets, so maybe it'd be nice to clean it up.
<sil2100> fossfreedom_: ^ is that still a thing?
<cyphermox> well, he does have upload rights for these pacakges in debian
<sil2100> Same for rhythmbox-plugin-alternative-toolbar
<sil2100> Ah, ok
<cyphermox> so a distinct list is relevant
<fossfreedom_> ah - that's now a snap - but yeah - for installers if they install budgie-welcome deb they are invited to install the deb
<rbasak> If cleaning up, then we could switch to direct PPU for those.
<fossfreedom_> snap
<rbasak> And remove personal-fossfreedom.
<rbasak> That shouldn't result in any functional difference to his upload permission
<sil2100> Does anyone volunteer for adding fossfreedom_ to the ubuntu-budgie packageset and (as a separate task) clean up the personal-fossfreedom set?
<cyphermox> well, it wouldn't, but sicne it's already there, there is no harm really
<sil2100> (by clean up I mean, remove it and switch to direct PPU)
<rbasak> I'm happy to take it but it won't be today, which isn't good.
<sil2100> I don't mind either way I guess
<cyphermox> the difference is that with a personal packageset we can actually extend the list ourselves instead of asking the TB
<rbasak> (for him)
<cyphermox> (given that we can do that by email, etc)
<cyphermox> it's consistent with delegation
<rbasak> cyphermox: yes, but it wasn't originally intended to use that mechanism instead of PPU for everyone
<cyphermox> rbasak: tbh, the "intended" is unclear
<rbasak> I guess we could, but AIUI we haven't actually taken a decision to do so
<cyphermox> it's certainly easier for us to do things that way
<rbasak> cyphermox: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase#Personal_packagesets_and_glob_expansions
<cyphermox> I think it was mostly left to whomever requested it from the TB
<cyphermox> sounds consistent
<rbasak> It was only for special cases.
<cyphermox> ie. a list of packages you get PPU for via Debian Dev could be considered a list that changes often
<rbasak> If we want to do it for all PPUs, then fine, but I'd prefer to see us be consistent in how we use the mechanisms.
<cyphermox> I mean, I don't care, but it really does seem easier if it was personal lists
<cyphermox> it would 1) make it easier for us to extend the PPUs when people request more, and 2) make it easier to audit since the packagesets are already extracted and listed on a webpage
<cyphermox> rbasak: +1 on consistency
<cyphermox> I prefer the personal- lists.
<rbasak> cyphermox: would you like to drive getting the DMB to agree to switch entirly to using the personal- lists?
<cyphermox> sure
<cyphermox> I'll put it on the agenda for next meeting
<rbasak> Assuming my wording is exactly what you want?
<rbasak> Sounds good, thanks.
<cyphermox> sounds about right
<sil2100> Ok, in that case I'll add fossfreedom_ to the packageset, and the rest we resolve next meeting
<rbasak> I think I'm roughly on the fence, FWIW.
<cyphermox> ok
<rbasak> sil2100: +1
<sil2100> #action sil2100 to add fossfreedom_ to the ubuntu-budgie packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to add fossfreedom_ to the ubuntu-budgie packageset
<cyphermox> I'm slightly on the side of personal-, because it's consistent with delegating to us giving the rights, whereas right now we need to ask the TB to run various commands
<rbasak> cyphermox: up to you, but maybe an advance mailing list thread would be helpful on this one.
<cyphermox> it could be just "edit-acl add <whatever to create a new list>"
<cyphermox> rbasak: yeah
<sil2100> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<sil2100> Anything else?
<rbasak> I'm interested in what Launchpad devs think.
<rbasak> (on that topic, not AOB)
<sil2100> ;)
<tsimonq2> Rik told me that his announcements were already sorted.
<tsimonq2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2019-March/040618.html
<tsimonq2> Otherwise, nothing else from me.
<sil2100> Excellent
<sil2100> Ok, let's end the meeting for today o/
<sil2100> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  8 15:40:53 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-04-08-15.14.moin.txt
<sil2100> Thanks everyone!
<sil2100> Ah!
<sil2100> Eeek
<sil2100> I'll sort the announcement for fossfreedom_ as well, forgot the #action
<sil2100> ;/
<rbasak> sil2100: you can put it in the wiki as an action anyway, as a reminder, if you wish.
<rbasak> Of course if you do it right now there's no point ;)
<rbasak> (I only mention this because in my head it's the wiki that's the real mechanism for not forgetting about actions)
<sil2100> rbasak: true true ;)
<sil2100> I like the meetingology notes being consistent though
<sil2100> But oh well
<rbasak> I feel your pain. Inconsistencies like that bother me :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-04-09
<cyphermox> doko: cpaelzer: didrocks: MIR team meeting?
<didrocks> o/
<jamespage> o/
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  9 13:05:17 2019 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cyphermox> I suppose we could say a mailing list was agenda
<cyphermox> that's being taken care of by Josh.
<cyphermox> then there's mailman3 and openstack; but we should probably cover this as bugs in and of themselves
<cyphermox> am I missing anything?
<didrocks> I don't think you are
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cyphermox> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cyphermox> there are 11 open bugs from that search, I don't know that we need to go through them, but we should see what we can unblock right now
<jamespage> from an openstack perspective bug 1815991 can be pushed to next release
<ubottu> bug 1815991 in masakari (Ubuntu) "[MIR] masakari and masakari-monitors" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815991
<jamespage> that feature is 'preview' imho
<cyphermox> ok; that's good to know
<jamespage> I'll comment
<cyphermox> btw, that would just mean it will stay in this New list
<doko> sorry, having some network issues here ...
<cyphermox> doko: np
<cpaelzer> I'm here
<cpaelzer> sorry to be late
<cyphermox> well, there are bugs in the new list; we should assign them, get them off the list... that's basically it
<cyphermox> let's move on to the meat of this meeting
<cyphermox> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<didrocks> (yeah, I'm triaging some right now)
<cyphermox> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> I have processed a few of jamespage last week
<cpaelzer> ahve not found time this week yet
<cpaelzer> but I could talk to the mailman3 related bugs
<cpaelzer> you all have a mail with the subject "Status and next steps of the Mailman3 related MIRs"
<cpaelzer> but we can as well talk that here
<cpaelzer> The TL;DR is that I look for experience on glwelwyd, norm and python-django-extensions - and for a full review on  twitter-bootstrap and uwsgi
<cpaelzer> If one or two of you could take the latter we could discuss the former here if you like
<cyphermox> I answered on glwelwyd
<cpaelzer> yep that is what I epected on that - thanks for the confirm
<cyphermox> I think splitting the font out is the way to go, but it's something that takes time
<cpaelzer> yep, and will be post buster but that is fine
<cyphermox> the short-term would be to drop dep
<cpaelzer> I'll put that task on the server Team
<cpaelzer> drop-dep seems not to work well (without UI stuggle)
<cyphermox> that means you're blocked with that MIR for this release though
<cyphermox> your only short-term is dropping the depends
<cpaelzer> nobody had hope for 19.04 anyway
<cyphermox> I'll have a look at the two others for mailman3 next
<cyphermox> what about openstack?
<cyphermox> jamespage already mentioned masakari could wait a bit, but there's more
<jamespage> I just noted the heat-dashboard one
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: for my tracking and pinging which two do you mean with "the two others" the full reviews on twitter-bootstrap and uwsgi or my questions on norm and python-django-extensions ?
<cyphermox> I meant full review of twitter-* and uwsgi
<cpaelzer> thanks++
<cyphermox> I can answer the other questions, after the meeting
<cpaelzer> great
<cyphermox> jamespage: you mean https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/heat-dashboard/+bug/1750576?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1750576 in heat-dashboard (Ubuntu) "[MIR] heat-dashboard" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<jamespage> yes
<cyphermox> I never got a response there
<cyphermox> or you mean you noted for your team to action it?
<jamespage> I also see you asked on bug 1543754 but I've not responded
<ubottu> bug 1543754 in python-pykmip (Ubuntu) "[MIR] barbican, python-pykmip" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1543754
<cyphermox> oh ok
<jamespage> cyphermox: leave those both with me - I'll chase coreycb and deal with the pykmip one myself
<cyphermox> fwiw, for tests I don't expect them to be *fixed*, just that if they can't be enabled we should have a papertrail of why
<cpaelzer> I'd take usbguard off the list and handle that this week
<cpaelzer> didrocks: this came from seb - do you know if this is 19.04 urgent or just 19.10 material?
<jamespage> cyphermox: ack understand - tbh the unit testing across horizon + dashboards generally needs improvement - its not been revisited since the archive re-org re bd's vs runtime depends
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> anything else?
<didrocks> cpaelzer:I can ask, but I don't think it's 19.04 material or I would have been pinged
<cyphermox> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cyphermox> same question, different form; any OB?
<cpaelzer> ok didrocks, then any time this week will be early enough
<didrocks> cpaelzer: doing as we speak :)
<didrocks> cpaelzer: "maybe for next cycle"
<cpaelzer> ok, thanks
<didrocks> thx ;)
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  9 13:27:15 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-04-09-13.05.moin.txt
<didrocks> thx everyone
<cpaelzer> thanks for driving this cyphermox
<coreycb> jamespage: i'll take another look at heat-dashboard tests
<doko> cyphermox, cpaelzer, didrocks, jamespage: when should we have the next meeting, just after easter, or skip that one?
<cpaelzer> I might be out at that time on the 23rd
<cyphermox> doko: probably not until archive is open?
<doko> ok, then let's skip that one
<didrocks> doko: ack
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-04-11
<rbalint> o/
<cyphermox> hello
 * vorlon waves
<cyphermox> who chairs?
<vorlon> I'll let someone else :)
<rbalint> vorlon, that sounds like xnox  :-)
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 11 15:03:16 2019 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<cyphermox> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<cyphermox> tdaitx sil2100 mwhudson xnox waveform infinity doko cyphermox bdmurray vorlon juliank rbalint
<cyphermox> tdaitx: ?
<tdaitx> gah, incomplete, but here it goes
<tdaitx> * openjdk-11 bionic security transition
<tdaitx> - u-u fix for maven, netbeans, visualvm, jhove, jetty9, tomcat:
<tdaitx>   - review changes, update documentation
<tdaitx>   - test changes and upgrade scenarios
<tdaitx>   - package, upload, coordinate stuff
<tdaitx> (done)
<vorlon> no sil2100
<vorlon> xnox:
<xnox> bug #1822730
<xnox> bug #1823132
<xnox> unblock sphinx testsuite on ppc64le/s390x
<xnox> bug #1823382
<xnox> bug #1816812
<ubottu> bug 1822730 in busybox (Ubuntu) "Disco server install fails to boot using encrypted partitions" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1822730
<xnox> unbreak zsh FTBFS / autopkgtest
<ubottu> bug 1823132 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[19.10 FEAT] Add libhugetlbfs for s390x >= 2.21" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823132
<xnox> bug #1824342
<ubottu> bug 1823382 in neon27 (Ubuntu Cosmic) "backport openssl 1.1.1 fixes to bionic and cosmic" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823382
<xnox> tiny systemd upload being reviewed by infinity
<ubottu> bug 1816812 in systemd (Ubuntu Disco) "desktop logout delays due to missing PropertiesChanged signal" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1816812
<xnox> subiquity merge proposals review
<ubottu> bug 1824342 in systemd (Ubuntu) "in 19.04, default user cannot access system journal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824342
<xnox> done
<xnox> done
<xnox> waveform,
<waveform> * Pi firmware update to support CM3+ boot in disco (LP: #1824338)
<waveform> * Pi bluetooth work: licensing fun, binary blobs, "vendor debug" strings ... but it works! (LP: #1824338)
<waveform> * Pi First boot spec in review
<waveform> * Pi Amazing spec reviewed, responding to comments
<waveform> * Pi3 gadget PR for cloud-init seeding
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1824338 in Ubuntu Server "Make bluetooth work on Raspberry Pi 3 classic images" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824338
<waveform> * Bug for wiringpi packaging (LP: #1824370)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1824370 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] wiringpi" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824370
<waveform> (done)
<bdmurray> infinity: ?
<infinity> Uhh, I lost track of time.   Someone take my spot.
<bdmurray> doko:
<doko> - disco main test rebuild, filing ftbfs bugs
<doko> - cosmic main test rebuild, fileing ftbfs bugs
<doko> - gcc* cosmic SRU updates
<doko> - one android-* SRU update for openjdk-11
<doko> - python* SRU updates for cosmic
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> shim review: Matrix42
<cyphermox> fix lsof ftbfs in rebuild tests (LP: #1823430)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1823430 in lsof (Ubuntu) "lsof ftbfs in disco" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823430
<cyphermox> netplan bionic SRU re-upload to disable broken tunnel tests
<cyphermox> netplan specs
<cyphermox> ore mucking with c-t-b-m autopkgtest; failure not reproducible locally.
<cyphermox> reviewing various pacakges, including MIRs: uwsgi, twitter-bootstrap3
<cyphermox> investigating some grub2 bugs: http module; conffile handling
<cyphermox> debugging oddness w.r.t golang packages showing up in lubuntu packageset
<cyphermox> fwupd/fwupd-signed fix for component mismatches
<cyphermox> + some secret stuff too boring to mention anyway
<cyphermox> (done)
<bdmurray> me
<bdmurray> scripted the update of apport test crashes
<bdmurray> further reduced the size of apport's content mapping pickle file
<bdmurray> tested apport update in the staging Error Tracker
<bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader fix for LP: #1822886
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1822886 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Cosmic) "universe missing after bionic->cosmic do-release-upgrade" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1822886
<bdmurray> reported update-manager bug re https LP: #1823410
<bdmurray> uploaded B and C SRUs for u-r-u and update-manager bugs above
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for issue with whoopsie-upload-all LP: #1824152
<bdmurray> reviewed outstanding britney hints MPs for stable releases
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1823410 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Cosmic) "utils.py's url_downloadable doesn't support https" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823410
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1824152 in apport (Ubuntu Disco) "/usr/share/apport/whoopsie-upload-all:AttributeError:process_report:add_gdb_info:gdb_command:write:read:readinto:read:/usr/share/apport/whoopsie-upload-all@166:collect_info:process_report" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824152
<bdmurray> sponsored an upload of probert to D for the server team
<bdmurray> reviewed many an SRU as requested by people
<bdmurray> done
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon>  * openjdk11 SRU discussions / shepherding
<vorlon>  * SRU reviews
<vorlon>  * unapproved queue reviews for disco
<vorlon>  * mailing list discussions about package removal policies
<vorlon>  * proposed-migration kicking of glibc blockers etc
<vorlon>  * fixed pyparted's autopkgtests; then saw it was fixed in Debian and synced that; now the package FTBFS on armhf with FPE
<vorlon> (done)
<rbalint> * wsl-related discussions
<bdmurray> juliank is out
<rbalint> * tested release upgrade to Disco on wsl, it works! :-)
<rbalint> * prepared patch for LP: #1821924
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1821924 in lxd (Ubuntu Cosmic) "LXD Deb->snap transition fails in WSL due to snap command not working (yet)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821924
<rbalint> * verified all remaining bugs for LP: #1702793
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1702793 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu Xenial) "Full backport SRU for unattended-upgrades" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1702793
<rbalint> * uploaded wireshark 2.6.8 via Debian
<rbalint> * verified ubuntu-wsl sru-s
<rbalint> * working on generic fix for LP: #1823872
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1823872 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "Fixing fsfreeze-hook can break unattended upgrades" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823872
<rbalint> (done)
<cyphermox> #topic Release incoming bugs (disco)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (disco)
<bdmurray> cyphermox: what about infinity?
<infinity>  * glibc upload to disco
<infinity>  * attempting to get the above migrated some day
<infinity>  * queue reviews, queue reviews, queue reviews
<infinity>  * archive gardening (nbs, priority-mismatches, component-mismatches, etc)
<infinity>  * NOTE: Final Freeze is TODAY, if you need it in, upload in the next 6 hours.
<cyphermox> oh, true, he wasn't ready before
<infinity> (done)
<infinity> There. :P
<cyphermox> bdmurray: see, you can depend on infinity, he doesn't need to have the right topic.
<cyphermox> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<cyphermox> bdmurray: boogs?
<bdmurray> there are some ftbfs since the last meeting
<bdmurray> and then bug 1824342
<ubottu> bug 1824342 in systemd (Ubuntu) "in 19.04, default user cannot access system journal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824342
<infinity> I think xnox uploaded for that one.
<xnox> bdmurray, infinity is reviewing upload for that.
<cyphermox> I wanna look at the strace ftbfs.
<bdmurray> I'll add the release task and untag that bug then
<xnox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/curtin/+bug/1534162
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1534162 in subiquity "symlinks managed by kernel postinst are different from zipl-installer and livefs-rootfs" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<infinity> A pkg-config regression is mildly concerning.
<xnox> https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/curtin/+git/curtin/+merge/365739
<cyphermox> infinity: check-print-options so maybe something new appeared
<cyphermox> oh, it's a -0ubuntu2 though
<cyphermox> bdmurray: so we're done with the bugs?
<bdmurray> maybe we should have a look at the tracking ones since its getting late
<cyphermox> ok, let's
<cyphermox> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-tracking-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1778844 - 3 pairs!
<ubottu> bug 1778844 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu Disco) "nvme multipath does not report path relationships" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778844
<cyphermox> nearly a mahjongg
<cyphermox> oh, looks like it needs sponsorage
<bdmurray> Who could review the path then?
<cyphermox> who wants to review and upload that?
<vorlon> I could
<vorlon> next one is LP: #1820840, which is fix committed by sil2100
<bdmurray> then bug 1820840 - only 2 pairs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1820840 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu Disco) "[Disco] Ubuntu Desktop fails to build - snap-tool download: failed to get details for 'core18' in 'stable/ubuntu-19.04' on 'amd64': No revision was found in the Store. " [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1820840
<bdmurray> tobikoch: What does partially mitigate in your comment in bug 1820840 mean?
<ubottu> bug 1820840 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu Disco) "[Disco] Ubuntu Desktop fails to build - snap-tool download: failed to get details for 'core18' in 'stable/ubuntu-19.04' on 'amd64': No revision was found in the Store. " [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1820840
<vorlon> doko: LP: #1820172?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1820172 in python3.7 (Ubuntu Disco) "[regression] Python async test fails with OpenSSL 1.1.1b" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1820172
<doko> that should be worked around ...
<bdmurray> should be or should have been?
<vorlon> I don't understand what's to be worked around
<vorlon> is this a build time test or autopkgtest?
<tobikoch> bdmurray: it does not address all of vorlon's concerns in comment #3
<doko> it's not clear to me if reducing the payload is the correct fix
<vorlon> doko: ok; but that seems in any case like we should either close the bug or untarget it
<tobikoch> bdmurray: but I guess it fixes that particular bug.
<bdmurray> tobikoch: then maybe new bugs for his other concerns?
<doko> then untarget. python3.x will get openssl 1.1.1 updates upstream
<vorlon> tobikoch: can I remove core18 from the desktop seed?
<vorlon> (I'm guessing point #2 is the hard one that's not done yet and we're still seeding core + core18)
<bdmurray> doko: does untarget == won't fix for disco?
<vorlon> I've untargeted now
<doko> bdmurray: no, "python3.x will get openssl 1.1.1 updates upstream"
<infinity> vorlon: I'd think the "can I remove core18" question is better posed to kenvandine.
<vorlon> infinity: I'm asking whether tobijk's implementation makes the (wrong) seeding of core18 unnecessary
<infinity> Oh, that would be me not understanding the bug then. ;)
<bdmurray> doko: repeating the same words doesn't help me understand it better
<vorlon> it's untargeted now; should we move on?
<bdmurray> bug 1805490
<ubottu> bug 1805490 in grub2-signed (Ubuntu Disco) "Grub2 Failed to install "efibootmgr failed to register the boot entry: Block device required."" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1805490
<doko> bdmurray: these will be backported to disco once available. so why close it as "wontfix"?
<bdmurray> doko: got it so we'll fix it in an SRU. I don't think we have a good way of tracking that.
<cyphermox> bdmurray: I still have it on my radar just no answer at this point
<cyphermox> I can't reproduce the failure and the information I have doesn't really help
<bdmurray> then bug 1811695
<ubottu> bug 1811695 in update-manager (Ubuntu Disco) "/usr/bin/update-manager:RuntimeError(org.freedesktop.DBus.Python.RuntimeError):_on_clicked:_deferable..." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1811695
<vorlon> bdmurray: from your comment on there, is this a disco-specific problem according to the error tracker?
<bdmurray> vorlon: perhaps the errors bucket isn't loading for me atm
<bdmurray> I think so though
<bdmurray> Its probably SRU worthy
<vorlon> then if update-manager will be broken for (some) users after upgrade, that's important to have fixed sooner rather than later
<vorlon> can anyone take that on?
<vorlon> ah, if it's just an apt lock and update-manager will try again later, not critical
<gaughen> so can wait for julian-k?
<vorlon> so should-fix but we don't need to get it assigned right now
<vorlon> gaughen: I think so
<vorlon> bdmurray: others to discuss?
<bdmurray> there are still a coule of highs
<bdmurray> bug 1796275
<ubottu> bug 1796275 in casper (Ubuntu Disco) "Screen reader is not auto-enabled on first login if enabled when installing" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1796275
<cyphermox> I had a look, discussed this with the desktop team
<bdmurray> during this cycle?
<cyphermox> they know what needs to happen re. whatever dconf keys need to be poked
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> it should have been fixed already, but it's a rather large ugly script in casper
<cyphermox> ok, it's in disco
<bdmurray> version 1.403
<bdmurray> I'll close the bug
<bdmurray> How much more time do we have?
<gaughen> 14 minutes.
<cyphermox> next topic?
<cyphermox> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<cyphermox> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> short list at this point in the cycle
<vorlon> fuse, I think we agree that's not critical at this point
<vorlon> otoh fuse-zip may wind up being an ignorable regression in release, judging by the glibc results
<vorlon> multipath-tools, also not critical so probably ignorable
<vorlon> update-notifier, somehow a regression, juliank uploaded but he's not around to follow up
<vorlon> (also not critical for disco release, that's more important for trusty)
<cyphermox> multipath-tools; yeah, ignorable
<vorlon> glibc, discussed and being worked on
<cyphermox> trying to debootstrap against debian
<vorlon> pyparted, that's the wtf build failure
<infinity> update-notifier is just a PEP8 failure, no?
<infinity> That should be easy.
<vorlon> infinity: are you volunteering to take it? should be easy but also not critical for disco release
<cyphermox> weee
<infinity> I'm fine with taking it.
<vorlon> ok
<infinity> But also, screw PEP8.
<vorlon> the rest of the newer stuff, I think we can trust will shake out over the next week if it's critical for release
<vorlon> cyphermox: next topic, I think?
<cyphermox> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<infinity> NOB
<cyphermox> what other bidness?
<vorlon> sounds like nothing
<vorlon> :)
<cyphermox> good
<cyphermox> I'm waiting a couple of minutes to #endmeeting on the hour.
<cyphermox> not.
<cyphermox> #endmeeeting
<rbalint> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-04-06
<sil2100> o/
<ddstreet> o/
<rbasak> o/
<teward> o/ (Time split with an IT Security matter @ work, so not 100% here)
<teward> i don't see Simon here
<teward> so someone else might need to chair.  (Can't be me as i'm splitting time/attention by work duties)
<ddstreet> next in the charing list is slashd but he doesn't appear around either
<teward> *sigh* fine I"ll give this a try... gonna need to brush up on meetingology commands though
<ddstreet> teward i'm earlier than you in the charing list, so i can chair if you prefer
<teward> yeah please do
<teward> i need to make notes on meetingology again 'cause I haven't used it in a while :p
<ddstreet> ack, i'll give it a try, may be slow on the cmds
<slashd> o/ guys can someonelse chair today for me ? I'll be here but on and off
<teward> same :P
<slashd> sorry about that
<ddstreet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  6 15:09:21 2020 UTC.  The chair is ddstreet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ddstreet> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
<ddstreet> tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<teward> simon isn't here so we'll have to carry over his action item.
<ddstreet> ddstreet to define an initial list of 'flavor teams'
<ddstreet> I sent an email to the list, as far as i can tell the short summary is there is a list of all flavor teams in my email, so we can set the expiry for those teams
<ddstreet> but also, two of the flavors do not have teams
<ddstreet> so, i think we also need to create teams for those 2 flavors, ubuntu-mate and ubuntustudio
<teward> ubuntu studio has a dev team
<teward> it's just not part of the packageset
<teward> (I'm on the dev team for Studio :P)
<ddstreet> ok then probably the packageset should be changed over to use the dev team, instead of just rosco2
<ddstreet> right?
<teward> ddstreet: add an action item RE: that team to me to follow up with Erich Eickmeyer (flavor lead) RE: a 'core' team for them with upload rights
<teward> the dev team includes quite a few people I would not want to give direct upload rights to
<teward> (i'll act as liaison since I"m actually on their team helping with upload sponsors and NEW stuff)
 * Eickmeyer butts-in
<Eickmeyer> We technically *do* have a core team of which I'm the owner.
<Eickmeyer> I know that doesn't include upload rights
<teward> Eickmeyer: given YOU do not even have upload rights to the studio packageset yet because you haven't applied, we need to discuss this outside of the DMB meeting
<Eickmeyer> teward: ack
<ddstreet> #action teward follow up with Erich Eickmeyer (flavor lead) RE: a 'core' team for them with upload rights
<meetingology> ACTION: teward follow up with Erich Eickmeyer (flavor lead) RE: a 'core' team for them with upload rights
<teward> my two cents.
<teward> ('cause it's a larger discussioN)
<teward> ('cause it's a larger discussion)
<ddstreet> ok that's for ubuntustudio, what about for ubuntu-mate?
<ddstreet> someone should follow up on changing it to use a team for packageset owner instead of just flexiondotorg
<ddstreet> teward you want to take that one as well?
<teward> I don't ahve any direct ties to the MATE team but i'll take the action item
<ddstreet> ack thanks
<ddstreet> #action teward follow up on packageset owning team for ubuntu-mate
<meetingology> ACTION: teward follow up on packageset owning team for ubuntu-mate
<ddstreet> ok and just so i don't forget we're carrying over simon's item
<ddstreet> #action tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<teward> #meetingtopic DMB Meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<teward> (we forgot to set the topic heh)
<ddstreet> thanks
<ddstreet> ok to finish up this action item, someone needs to set expiry time on the existing identified flavor teams, unless anyone else wants that i can take it
<ddstreet> #action ddstreet set expiry time on identified flavor teams
<meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet set expiry time on identified flavor teams
<ddstreet> also, if anyone disagrees with the list i sent, feel free to comment, of course
<teward> i haven't had time to review it yet ddstreet
<teward> so at least for the next few days don't kick expiry into gear yet if possible
<teward> i want to review it ;0
<teward> ;) *
<ddstreet> ack, i'll wait until next week to do that
<ddstreet> ok, on with the carried over items
<teward> (out of order)
<teward> teward to handle request "Requesting upload rights for ltsp"
<teward> Completed, and rights granted per PPU mechanisms
<teward> teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set"
<teward> Carry it over, still figuring out the packageset stuff
<teward> unless you know how to do it (I haven't found docs on it)
<teward> BUt i will ultimately ACK that into the packageset as it's only an Lubuntu package
<ddstreet> i do not, i'm happy to let you carry it over :)
<teward> yep
<ddstreet> #action teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set"
<meetingology> ACTION: teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set"
<ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Expired MOTU membership"
<ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco is not around, so we can carry this over also
<ddstreet> #action rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Expired MOTU membership" (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Expired MOTU membership" (carried over)
<rafaeldtinoco> yes pls
<rafaeldtinoco> sorry, i'll do this week
<ddstreet> ah hi o/
<ddstreet> ack thanks
<ddstreet> slashd to handle request "Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main"
<teward> rafaeldtinoco: if you don't get time let me know, and I'll give it a review/handle (I literally am bored off my butt with work from home heh)
<rafaeldtinoco> teward: alright. tku, will try to have it done but will let u kow
<teward> yep
<teward> NOW onto slashd :)
<ddstreet> slashd any update for printing pkgs item?
<slashd> ddstreet: not yet, will do my best to look at it this week.
<slashd> been a bit crazy lately for me
<ddstreet> ack, thanks
<ddstreet> #action slashd to handle request "Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main" (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: slashd to handle request "Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main" (carried over)
<ddstreet> ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse
<ddstreet> i have not got to this
<ddstreet> #action ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse (carried over)
<ddstreet> ok i think that's all the carried over items
<teward> yep
<ddstreet> The PPU application is set for next meeting, so skipping over that
<teward> yep, we have no MOTU, SRU Dev, or Core Dev applications
<teward> just a few mailing list items
<ddstreet> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
<ddstreet> Consider dissolution of packagesets for defunct flavor: edubuntu (teward)
<ddstreet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-March/001466.html
<teward> For those who haven't reviewed my email on the mailing list yet I can summarize:
<teward> Basically, in regards to the LTSP request, it brought up a point that Edubuntu is dead - and as a result the packageset has no need to exist
<teward> my proposal is to remove the packageset and thsoe who need direct upload to those packages can continue to apply via PPU processes
<teward> such dissolution of the packageset will, in my opinion, require quorum vote
<ddstreet> my only question re: that is there appears to be 1 memeber who would then lose existing upload rights
<ddstreet> should we make them re-apply to get upload rights back?
<ddstreet> or create a personal packageset for them?
<ddstreet> specifically,    - Alkis Georgopoulos (alkisg)
<rbasak> Can we invite that person to join the discussion?
<ddstreet> and the edbuntu packageset is https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/focal/edubuntu
<rbasak> Ask them what they'd like.
<teward> it looks like stgraber owuld be affected as well as alkisg, unless stgraber has core and i'm blind at reading their memberships
<rafaeldtinoco> question, we would have to approve to this person ppu for all those pkgs then ?
<rbasak> stgraber is a core dev
<teward> then i am blind :)
<rbasak> So no impact to him
<teward> rafaeldtinoco: it'd probably make sense to make a packageset for that user - a personal packageset for alkisg
<teward> I'm not opposed to that
<rafaeldtinoco> thats why I ask, to make sure we are on the same page
<teward> but because of the dead edubuntu flavor, edubuntu-dev still has uploads.
<rbasak> If we did that, it'd be individual PPU, not a personal packageset.
<teward> mmm, we would have to do it a PPU then.  I think we'll have to loop in alkisg, but I'm hesitant to keep defunct flavors' packagesets around
<teward> just my two cents
<rbasak> I suggest we propose it to alkisg
<rafaeldtinoco> +1
<rbasak> Before making any decision
<teward> +1
<ddstreet> +1
<ddstreet> anyone want to take that action item?
<teward> so then action item is to reach out to aklisg and ask if they're willing to make a PPU application for all the packages
<teward> *raises hand*
<teward> ... if you want to keep assigning things to me that is :p
<rbasak> No even a PPU application
<rbasak> I don't think an application is necessary
<rafaeldtinoco> just the change to happen
<rbasak> We should just ask if a transfer to PPU would be acceptable as a way forward
<rbasak> We can figure out how we want to achieve that later.
<rbasak> (I'm in favour of JFDI with no application)
<rafaeldtinoco> sgtm
<teward> agreed, so i'll take the action item of proposing to them and then JFDI if that's OK'd
<ddstreet> #action teward discuss edbuntu conversion to ppu with aklisg
<meetingology> ACTION: teward discuss edbuntu conversion to ppu with aklisg
<ddstreet> thanks!
<rbasak> One consequence is that things that might have previously qualified to just-be-added to the edubuntu packageset will now require individual PPU applications.
<rbasak> I think that would be fine though - just pointing it out.
<teward> rbasak: my opinion is that the Edubuntu Package Set is a legacy piece
<rbasak> Agreed
<teward> leftover from the defunct flavor
<teward> as such, NOTHING gets added to Edubuntu going forward
<teward> but we're free to remove from or dissolve the packageset
<teward> which is why I gave them PPU via DM on their ML request.
<teward> that's my opinion regarding defunct packagesets anyways
<ddstreet> ok so should we vote on edbuntu dissolution now, or wait until after teward talks to aklisg?
<rbasak> after teward talks to alkisg please
<teward> ddstreet: carry that over, we want to talk to alkisg
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<ddstreet> ack, so let's move to the next email request
<ddstreet> Please add ukui packages to the ubuntukylin package set (handsome_feng)
<ddstreet> i think this, and the next one, are trivial items that any indivudla dmb member can handle
<ddstreet> just adding packages to packageset
<rbasak> Yes, but
<rbasak> If it's an automatically generated packageset, then that makes it complicated
<ddstreet> ah right since it's flavor pkgset
<rbasak> If you just add it to the packageset in Launchpad, that will revert the next time the automation is run
<ddstreet> so in this case, the actual action is to run the script tooling to update the packageset from the seeds
<ddstreet> right?
<rbasak> I'm not sure all flavor packagesets are generated by the script
<rbasak> ddstreet: yeah, roughly
<ddstreet> ok i guess we should take an item to check the tooling, and run it
<rbasak> Hopefully the script will agree with the request, and then it can just happen
<rbasak> Otherwise the script logic and/or exception lists might need adjusting
<ddstreet> any volunteers for that?
<rafaeldtinoco> i can give it a try
<ddstreet> thanks!
<ddstreet> #action rafaeldtinoco look at flavor packageset tooling re: update of ubuntukylin packageset, run tooling to update packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco look at flavor packageset tooling re: update of ubuntukylin packageset, run tooling to update packageset
<ddstreet> request to add jsunit to the mozilla packageset (olivier.tilloy)
<ddstreet> this isn't a flavor packageset (mozilla) so i think this should just be a manual addition to the packageset
<ddstreet> any volunteers?
<teward> i can handle it
<ddstreet> don't overload yourself :)
<teward> yes i know i'm volunteering for everything but if anyone else wants it feel free to take it
<teward> ddstreet: put into perspective:
<teward> 90% of the day i'm sitting on my butt bingewatching TV and checking email and work chat for tasks
<teward> so i am not overloaded - i'm DYING for stuff to keep me entertained :)
<ddstreet> ah well that makes sense :)
<teward> so if anyone else wants it take it, otherwise assign it to me
<ddstreet> looks like it's yours ;)
<ddstreet> #action teward request to add jsunit to the mozilla packageset (olivier.tilloy)
<meetingology> ACTION: teward request to add jsunit to the mozilla packageset (olivier.tilloy)
<teward> aso i've already binged Stargate SG-1 from Season 1 to final episode of Season 10 already with WFH - which gives you an idea of exactly HOW BUSY I am not :p
<ddstreet> lol, sg-1 is a good one to watch
<ddstreet> ok last item i think
<ddstreet> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names)
 * RikMills loans teward Atlantis Bluerays
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names)
<rbasak> It'll be Simon again I guess?
<teward> RikMills: joke's on you, I have 4k streaming of it via Amazon Prime :)
<rbasak> And ddstreet can move himself to the end.
<RikMills> teward: ditto
<ddstreet> ack sounds good, i'll move myself in the list but otherwise leave as is
<teward> rbasak: i'd say we need to remove Simon from the chairs list for now
<teward> i can't even raise him on texts at the moment
<teward> and that's no easy feat
 * rbasak doesn't mind
<rbasak> (who is chair)
<ddstreet> ack, will do that too
<rbasak> Just do something, and call it done please :)
<teward> yep
<ddstreet> ok AOB?
<ddstreet> 10...
<ddstreet> 5
<ddstreet> 4
<ddstreet> 3
<teward> yep
<ddstreet> you do have othe rbusiness?
<teward> but nothing that needs discussion - thanks to everyone on the DMB for being alive since the recent election
<teward> it's great we can get quorum and discussions regularly again :)
<ddstreet> agreed!
<teward> (so nothing crucial just something to point out)
<ddstreet> ok 2, 1, done
<ddstreet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  6 15:46:04 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-04-06-15.09.moin.txt
<ddstreet> thanks everyone!
<rbasak> Thank you for chairing ddstreet!
<teward> indeed, thanks!
<ddstreet> it was fun, hopefully i didn't wander too much or miss any items :)
<teward> nope, if anything I was the most tangent-causing :P
<teward> also my apologies for just punting Eickmeyer to another location heh
<teward> but i didn't want a long drawn out discussion here RE: upload rights :)
 * Eickmeyer salts teward
 * teward pours molten fluoride salts onto Eickmeyer's computer
<teward> I WIN
<teward> *shot*
<teward> anyways, back to work for me!
<teward> Eickmeyer: I'll follow up with you via Telegram
<Eickmeyer> teward: sounds good. :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-04-07
<jamespage> o/
<ddstreet> o/
<joeubuntu> o/
<didrocks> hey
<cpaelzer> ho
<cpaelzer> doko pinged me that he can't attend
<cpaelzer> we seem to be otherwise complete
<cpaelzer> lets start
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  7 13:04:12 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cpaelzer> we had nothing open except assigned bugs which will come up later
<cpaelzer> anything from you to add?
<didrocks> nothing
<cpaelzer> and btw hi didrocks joeubuntu ddstreet jamespage :-)
<cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current component mismatches
<didrocks> hey cpaelzer :)
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cpaelzer> all the maas seeds are discussed outside of that meeting between maas/foundations IIRC
<cpaelzer> therest still has the (actually false positive) apport->terminator
<cpaelzer> this could stil need a fix in apport, but isn't super urgent
<cpaelzer> would someone mind to file a bug about it?
<didrocks> IIRC bdmurray said he would have a look. Iâm happy to file a bug
<cpaelzer> otherwsie we will talk every week about it as it won't resolve on its own
<cpaelzer> yeah didrocks, doesn't ahve to be a compelx bug
<cpaelzer> mostly a reminder
<cpaelzer> thanks
<didrocks> np
<cpaelzer> The sphinx dependencies are actually fix-released
<cpaelzer> this seems to drop and need re-promition every now and then
<ddstreet> what's the status of spice-html5, cpaelzer i think you mir-ack'ed it right?
<jamespage> I seeded that yesterday hence its on the report
<ddstreet> i'm working on python-jwcrpyto review and should be done today
<cpaelzer> one thing at a time, but I think yes :-)
<ddstreet> sorry, it was in the svg
<cpaelzer> np
<cpaelzer> I added a bug update and subscribed AAs for the sphinx dependencies
<cpaelzer> now to spice
<cpaelzer> thanks jamespage for seeding
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: jamespage: is python-jwcrpyto directly related to spice-html5 ?
<cpaelzer> or can we ask to promote spice-html5 already as-is?
<jamespage> loosely
<jamespage> websockify -> python-jwcrypto
<cpaelzer> so we can promote spice now and follow with jwcrypto once ready?
<jamespage> websockify sits between clients and spice-html5 doing the ws:// bit
<jamespage> yep
<cpaelzer> I subscribed AAs and asked for promotion
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> umm empty
<cpaelzer> \o/
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> the last bumps were on cases that are ok
<cpaelzer> ok in the sense as "no action from MIR Team needed"
<cpaelzer> ec2-instance-connect still goes around between rbasak rcj and rharper
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cpaelzer> this might after some long ones be a faster meeting
<cpaelzer> anything else from you?
<didrocks> nothing for me, back fixing bugs :)
<cpaelzer> 10
<cpaelzer> 5
<cpaelzer> 3
<cpaelzer> 2
<cpaelzer> 1
<cpaelzer> thanks didrocks jamespage ddstreet joeubuntu
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  7 13:16:30 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-04-07-13.04.moin.txt
<ddstreet> thnx o/
<didrocks> thx cpaelzer
<joeubuntu> bye!
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-04-09
<rbalint> o/
<slyon> o/
<waveform> o/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  9 15:01:59 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<juliank> o/
<sil2100> o/
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> vorlon mwhudson waveform xnox rbalint sil2100 bdmurray juliank doko infinity slyon tdaitx
<bdmurray> vorlon: ready?
<bdmurray> let's redo that
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
<bdmurray> tdaitx rbalint infinity waveform doko mwhudson vorlon bdmurray xnox sil2100 juliank slyon
<bdmurray> tdaitx: its you!
<sil2100> \o/
<tdaitx> * xz-utils ftbfs
<tdaitx>   - build-arch rule uses double colon, moving to single colon "fixes" the build
<tdaitx>   - builds fine on disco, ftbfs on eoan/focal, debhelper regression (?) seems to be the cause
<tdaitx> * test results in openjdk-11-jdk package seem to prevent work on reproducible builds
<tdaitx>   - testing if the work to split stable-ish and flaky tests might help get rid of those files
<tdaitx> * intel 7265 keeps failing, kernel/intel knows
<tdaitx>   - moved to an external rtl8812au, using aircrack-ng's dkms repo as rtl8812au-dkms package does not work properly (way too old?)
<tdaitx> (done)
<rbalint> * landed systemd 245.4 splitting off systemd-timesynd to a separate binary package
<rbalint> * systemd bugs gardening
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * unattended-upgrades bugs gardening
<rbalint> * uploads via Debian: ecb, unattended-upgrades 2.2
<rbalint> * proposed-migration work
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> infinity is not here
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Worked on uc20 boot sequence ... "It's alive!" \o/
<waveform> * Submitted bug for merging uc20 and classic boot sequences (LP: #1871831)
<waveform> * Tested beta (and post-beta) images on a variety of Pis (discovered re-emergence of USB issue on 4Gb Pi4 arm64, rapidly fixed by kernel team!)
<waveform> * Answered MIR queries for u-boot-rpi (LP: #1869792) (now pending security review)
<waveform> * Submitted MIR for linux-raspi (LP: #1871835)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1871831 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu) "Merge Core and Classic bootscripts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871831
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1869792 in u-boot (Ubuntu) "[MIR] u-boot-rpi" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869792
<waveform> * Tested new systemd releases related to DHCP4 issue on Pi3s (LP: #1870410)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1871835 in linux-raspi (Ubuntu) "[MIR] linux-raspi" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871835
<waveform> * Submitted logs for cloud-init wifi configuration issue (LP: #1870346)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1870410 in systemd (Ubuntu Focal) "wireless does not work on boot on RPi 3s" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870410
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1870346 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "Wifi configuration" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870346
<waveform> * Investigating alternative boot methods on our Pi images: USB boot (u-boot USB MSD blocking), and NOOBS currently (u-boot script needs refinement)
<waveform> * Set up pi to host blog, wrote another cloud-init blog post and answered a few pi forum posts
<waveform> (done)
<doko>  - gcc-9, gcc-10 updates
<doko>  - hopefully the last round of unversioned python fixes
<doko>  - various riscv64 ftbfs fixes
<doko>  - some package removals for s390x, investigating link failures and symbols files issues
<doko>  - openjdk sync
<doko>  - python 2.7.18 release candidate
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon>  * miscellaneous riscv64 architecture shepherding
<vorlon>   * includes working around strange britney behavior that looks like a bug, it objects to essential packages becoming installable...
<vorlon>  * machine upgrades to 20.04 beta, finding and bugs in debconf handling (LP: #1871530)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1871530 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Focal) "on upgrade from eoan to focal, update-manager puts debconf prompts to the terminal instead of using the gnome frontend" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871530
<vorlon>  * freeze queue reviews
<vorlon>  * netplan schema reviews
<vorlon> * grub resilient-boot code reviews
<vorlon> (done)
<xnox> vorlon:  do we know why somethings not migrating? e.g. boost1.67
<xnox> it is installable
<bdmurray> investigation into retracing issues of focal crashes
<bdmurray> reported bug regarding release notes link not working
<bdmurray>  https://github.com/canonical-web-and-design/ubuntu.com/issues/7129
<bdmurray> reported, tested wireless RPi bug LP: #1870410
<bdmurray> sponsored ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu for Wimpress
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1870410 in systemd (Ubuntu Focal) "wireless does not work on boot on RPi 3s" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870410
<bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader fixing LP: #1848629
<bdmurray> upladed u-r-u with addition of ddebs.ubuntu.com to mirrors
<bdmurray> further Raspberry reg domain testing LP: #1862760
<bdmurray> uploaded a more tasteful command-not-found
<bdmurray> uploaded update-manager fixing LP: #1845690
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1848629 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "check-new-release-gtk exits with PyGIWarning:GTK" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1848629
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1862760 in linux-firmware-raspi2 (Ubuntu Focal) "Unreliable 802.11ac connection on our raspi images" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862760
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1845690 in update-manager (Ubuntu Bionic) "Do not offer an upgrade from i386 systems" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1845690
<bdmurray> sponsored update-manager missing translation fix
<bdmurray> uploaded apport w/ support for casper-md5check LP: #1870408
<bdmurray> modified ubuntu-security-status to list some package names
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1870408 in apport (Ubuntu) "casper-md5check should leave a breadcrumb which apport, ubiquity, subiquity could use" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870408
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> UC20 respins for Pi, it seems to boot to install mode, but not run mode
<xnox> initramfs-tools fixing vlan bugs from eoan that were unnoticed
<xnox> debugging multipath nvme causing installer crashes
<xnox> openssl 1.1.1f merge uploaded (catch up snapshot to final)
<xnox> debian-cd merge proposals
<xnox> ubuntu-archive-scripts merge proposals
<xnox> casper updates
<xnox> apport updates
<xnox> consoleconf updates
<xnox> subiquity / livecd-rootfs fix
<xnox> and valgrind
<xnox> done
<bdmurray> sil2100:
<sil2100> Skip me for now
<bdmurray> juliank:
<juliank> * investigated the ubuntustudio-live ubiquity plugin failure (LP: #1851346)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1851346 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu Focal) "Ubuntu Studio 19.10 Installer Causes Wanted Programs to be Removed" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1851346
<juliank> * some more human report files for https://magenta.jak-linux.org/ubuntu-archive/distcheck/ - for all source packages, not just python related ones
<juliank> * set timeout in separate mokutil invocation (LP: #1869187)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1869187 in shim-signed (Ubuntu Focal) "mokutil ignores timeout parameter" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869187
<juliank> * apt 2.0.2, including LP: #1825000 change
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825000 in apt (Ubuntu) "Add ability for mirrors to distinguish interactive and non-interactive apt runs" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825000
<juliank>   ^ in unapproved
<juliank> * python-apt 2.0.0
<juliank>   ^ in unapproved
<juliank> * finished resilient boot update for grub2; follow up changes in grub2-signed, shim-signed (LP: #1871821)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1871821 in shim-signed (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Resilient boot" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871821
<juliank>   ^ in unapproved
<juliank> (done)
<bdmurray> slyon:
<slyon> * next week will be short, starting on Tuesday
<slyon> * finalized and merged netplan WiFi features (bssid/band/channel)
<slyon> * implemented and merged netplan WakeOnWLan feature
<slyon> * prepared pull request for netplan bridge[-ports].vlans features
<slyon> * reviewed netplan SR-IOV pull request
<slyon> * finalized and merged netplan IPv6 address-generation feature
<slyon>   -> Discussed this with systemd-networkd devs: It's not fully implemented.
<slyon>   -> NetworkManager only.
<slyon> * continued working on netplan's NetworkManager read/write plugin
<slyon>   -> Discussed this with NM devs: They have concerns about the feasibility.
<slyon>   -> Needs lots of maintenance and must support all NM settings, to not break UX.
<slyon> (done)
<bdmurray> sil2100:
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - We released 20.04 Beta last week, yay!
<sil2100> - Release team work:
<sil2100>   * Queue reviews
<sil2100>   * FFe reviews
<sil2100>   * Beta retrospective
<sil2100> - netplan:
<sil2100>   * Reviewed WiFi bssid/band/channel PR for Lukas, merged
<sil2100>   * Reviewed wakeonwlan PR for Lukas, merged!
<sil2100>   * Reviewed community fix for missing Require= in service units, merged
<sil2100>   * Finalized SR-IOV branch, prepared PR, got feedback from Lukas
<sil2100>   * Battled with local machines and a broken SR-IOV Intel NIC, sent to get a working replacement
<sil2100>   * Started testing on a remote machine with an SR-IOV card attached (thanks James!)
<sil2100>   * PPA test builds
<sil2100>   * Started looking at OpenVSwitch implementation
<sil2100> - Uploading fixed livecd-rootfs for the raspi kernel flavoUr rename
<sil2100> - Refreshing uc18 images for raspi, send for testing
<sil2100> - Looked into some cdimage strangeness
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1871610
<ubottu> bug 1871610 in sphinx (Ubuntu) "autopkgtest: jstest in sphinx-doc test times out" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871610
<bdmurray> Does anybody remember why we are subscribed to that?
<xnox> hm
<xnox> because everything in the archive uses sphinx to build all the docs?
<xnox> (we seed docs into main by default as a glob include)
<doko> sphinx saw a fix, python-babel and python-docutils migrated
<bdmurray> ah, sure
<bdmurray> bug 1871538
<ubottu> bug 1871538 in dbus (Ubuntu) "dbus timeout-ed during an upgrade, taking services down including gdm" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871538
<bdmurray> it looks like the desktop team is on that
<bdmurray> bug 1871523
<ubottu> bug 1871523 in OEM Priority Project "linux-modules-5.4.0-1002-oem installed after installing focal beta" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871523
<bdmurray> we'll take that
<bdmurray> bug 1871268
<ubottu> bug 1871268 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installation fails with Could not configure 'libc6:i386'. , E:Could not perform immediate configuration on 'libgcc-s1:i386'" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871268
<bdmurray> targetting and carding that too
<juliank> yikes
<bdmurray> bug 1871149
<ubottu> bug 1871149 in python-apt (Ubuntu) "False apt_pkg.CacheMismatchError" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871149
<juliank> no idea
<bdmurray> that's already incomplete so fine
<rbalint> bdmurray,sorry, removed the tag
<bdmurray> bug 1870579
<ubottu> bug 1870579 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "System can't find OS to boot after install with UEFI alongside Windows 10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870579
<juliank> bad uefi?
<bdmurray> How could we check that?
<bdmurray> xnox: can you add details on how to test that for mclemenceau?
<xnox> hello
<xnox> from the othersie
<bdmurray> bug 1869538
<ubottu> bug 1869538 in casper (Ubuntu) "Focal installer uses EFI System partition on incorrect disk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869538
<vorlon> sounds like that's a duplicate of one in progress, xnox to follow through
<bdmurray> bug 1866852 is mclemenceau's also
<ubottu> bug 1866852 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "System Display black screen on reboot or after a clean shutdown with USB-C Dock Monitor" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1866852
<bdmurray> We've said this isn't doable for 20.04 but let's tag it rls-gg-incoming
<vorlon> not doable for 20.04.0, but should we still target it to focal?
<bdmurray> yes, let's do that
<bdmurray> okay, that's a lot of them but I'll go through and prioritize the undecided ones today / tomorrow
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon> debhelper
<vorlon> who had this one last week, the dkms stuff?
<rbalint> i made progress but not finished
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> carried
<vorlon> libgd2 is new; missing builds
<vorlon> I can take this
<vorlon> (it's riscv64, so I'll bump the build score)
<vorlon> plymouth is just blocked on gtk+3.0, which I expect the desktop team is on top of, no assignee needed
<vorlon> gcc-10, missing builds, doko?
<vorlon> seems to be a riscv64 build in progress
<vorlon> so no investigation needed
<vorlon> and that's actually everything that's > 3days old, so let's see if any of the others needs looking at
<doko> yes, will take about a week or more
<xnox> vorlon:  livecd-rootfs needs a bump again on riscv64?
<xnox> vorlon:  or should something be done to make livecd-rootfs installable, despite missing depends?
<vorlon> util-linux is a candidate but needs systemd to migrate, systemd is listed as a candidate, anyone know why it's not done?
<bdmurray> I rested u-r-u and apport
<rbalint> vorlon, systemd just migrated
<sil2100> Oh yes, I just asked that on -release, since I have no idea how to proceed with livecd-rootfs
<vorlon> ok, so nothing to do there
<vorlon> nothing else looks interesting
<vorlon> bdmurray: done
<vorlon> doko: "a week or more" - the last gcc-10 build took 1day 4 hours; are you counting autopkgtest time?
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<bdmurray> some people have a three day "weekend" correct?
<vorlon> or 4?
<rbalint> for me: 4
<sil2100> 4 for me as well
<bdmurray> oh even better lots of time to get away
<slyon> 4, too
 * bdmurray rolls eyes
<bdmurray> So I have an issue with a package that Martin made which creates apport test crash files. This now fails b/c of an apport security update https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/focal/apport/ubuntu/revision/2757
<bdmurray> because apport.lock can't be created
<bdmurray> this test crashes are used to test the error tracker so I'd like to sort this out
<bdmurray> If anybody has a suggestion I'm all ears / eyes
<xnox> hm
<vorlon> bdmurray: is this because the tests are running as non-root?
<xnox> bdmurray:  if you run that test under a systemd unit, you can ask for PrivateRun something, and then there will be epehmeral /var/lock for you that you will have the rights to write to
<vorlon> I'm not clear on why this would have changed the test
<xnox> bdmurray:  or just run as root
<doko> vorlon: the last gcc-10 build had the testsuite disabled
<vorlon> ah
<bdmurray> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~daisy-pluckers/error-tracker-deployment/test-crashes/files
<xnox> vorlon:  because /var/lock/apport has different permissions?
<bdmurray> Its a package which generate crashes and then apport reports out of it
<xnox> https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.exec.html#PrivateTmp=
<bdmurray> so maybe run generate-sigsegv-crash.py as root?
<vorlon> perhaps so
<mclemenceau> o/
<bdmurray> okay that's something thanks!
<xnox> mclemenceau:  horay =)
<bdmurray> anything else?
<bdmurray> okay, thanks everybody
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  9 15:52:51 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-04-09-15.01.moin.txt
<vorlon> else: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/riscv64.html
<vorlon> :)
<tdaitx> bdmurray: given the way apport gets called (https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~daisy-pluckers/error-tracker-deployment/test-crashes/view/head:/generate-sigsegv-crash.py#L74) I also believe that it should be run as root (or at least have apport being run as root) in order to emulate how apport is actually run
<bdmurray> tdaitx: ah, thanks!
