#ayatana 2009-08-10
<MDC2> how about this? http://www.mejlamej.nu/spinner-startup.png
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<mccann> hey djsiegel1 
<djsiegel1> hey mccann, I am a bit busy right now, can I ping you back later?
<mccann> sure just curious how your wallpaper contest thing is coming?
<mccann> anytime is fine
<mrooney> djsiegel2: hey, looks like bug 307621 is being fixed upstream, so that could be assigned to a papercut milestone!
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 307621 in hundredpapercuts "Pressing enter key in print to file "Name" box does not print" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/307621
<djsiegel2> mrooney: haha, great
<mrooney> how is that stuff going overall?
<djsiegel2> mrooney: it's ok
<djsiegel2> mrooney: would like it if more people were driving it
<djsiegel2> you want to help out/
<djsiegel2> ?
<mac_v> mrooney: i think there already is a papercut > Bug #164298
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 164298 in ubuntu "Print to file should say "Export to PDF" instead of "Print to PDF"" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164298
<djsiegel2> mac_v that one is different
<mac_v> oh... ok
<djsiegel2> mrooney: can you help forward rounds 5 and 6 upstream?
<djsiegel2> if you find paper cuts not linked to upstreams, will you please link? would help me out a lot
<mrooney> I can give it a shot!
<djsiegel2> awesome, thank you so much
<mac_v> djsiegel2: Bug #394184 has been fixed upstream and also in karmic now
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 394184 in hundredpapercuts "Simplify the file roller post-extraction dialogue window" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/394184
<djsiegel2> I am blogging about rounds 5 and 6 today
<maco> djsiegel2: what determines whether a papercut gets on the list on your blog posts?
<maco> djsiegel2: i assumed fix date, but it seems not
<djsiegel2> maco: no, I just split the 100 into 10 milestones of 10
<djsiegel2> weekly milestones
<djsiegel2> and I just blog about ten at a time
<mrooney> well bug 19586 is fixed, shall I mark the paper cuts task as released?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 19586 in hundredpapercuts "When nautilus cannot unmount a media, it must tell why." [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19586
<djsiegel2> mrooney: sure
<mac_v> mrooney: i think djsiegel2  likes them marked as "Fix Commited"
<djsiegel2> maco: I have been blogging after the milestones, but I really should before -- the blog posts get a lot of eyeballs on the bug reports, and serve as a good final push to get things fixed
<djsiegel2> mac_v mrooney I was told Fix Released is fine
<mac_v> ;p unstable fella djsiegel2 
<maco> djsiegel2: ah. so if a papercut isnt milestoned, it doesnt get blogged, right?
<djsiegel2> maco right
<djsiegel2> I have blogged about some paper cuts that have been un-milestoned after being invalidated
<djsiegel2> like the nautilus toolbar changes
<mrooney> the problem with committed is that no one remembers to change them all when the devel version is released
<djsiegel2> maco: if a paper cut is not milestoned, it's not 1 of the 100 we are focusing on for karmic
<maco> djsiegel2: i see. kubuntu has a goal of 10 papercuts, but AFAIK none of them are milestoned
<ScottK> maco: Unfortunately 100papercuts is apparently Gnome/Canonical only so no one else can add the milestone.
<djsiegel2> not true
<mac_v> ah... i was wondering when ScottK would pop-in about kde ;p
<djsiegel2> I just haven;t had a chance to talk to seele recently
<djsiegel2> but we have a weird setup where the canonical design team owns the project
<djsiegel2> which we want to change so it's community run
<ScottK> djsiegel2: My impression from talking to her (and it may be wrong) was that non-Canonical people wouldn't be added.
<mac_v> ScottK: actually even kde is part of papercuts
<djsiegel2> this is just the beta release of the project
<djsiegel2> ScottK: well, now you are talking to the guy running the project
<ScottK> djsiegel2: I understand that.
<djsiegel2> :)
 * ScottK had it on his TODO to discuss it.
<djsiegel2> It's a goal for us to get a papercutters team going
<djsiegel2> with people like mac_v and mrooney and others on it
<djsiegel2> so the paper cuts project can be a proper project
<mrooney> if I could mark paper cuts as Triaged I could help more :)
<ScottK> Well starting a team in Launchpad takes about a minute.
<beuno> djsiegel2, I think if we assign a team as a bug supervisor
<beuno> they can set bugs to triaged
<beuno> they don;t need to own the project
<beuno> so it should be pretty easy to start a papercutters team that can mark 'em as triaged
<mrooney> yes indeed
<beuno> djsiegel2, say the word and I'll make it happen
<djsiegel2> beuno: what does it entail?
<djsiegel2> can they do more than set bugs to triaged?
<djsiegel2> that doesn't seem useful enough
<beuno> djsiegel2, right, that role is just around the bugs
<beuno> what else is there?
<beuno> probably target bugs to milestones as well, but I think anyone can do that now?
<ScottK> No, actually people can't.  That's why some of the Kubuntu bugs didn't get milestoned.
<beuno> ok, then that's the second problem we solve
<djsiegel2> beuno: ok, great, do it please
 * beuno does it
<ScottK> djsiegel2: It was my impression that when 100papercuts got started it was limited to Ubuntu the release (i.e. Ubuntu Desktop and Ubuntu Server) and that if other Ubuntu flavors, such as Kubuntu, wanted to participate they would have to do so with their own resources.
<ScottK> I'd be glad to find out that's not correct.
<djsiegel2> ScottK: so, the only non-community "resources" atm are attention from canonical-ux and my pushing on bugs
<djsiegel2> the former has been extremely minimal
<djsiegel2> basically nothing
<beuno> djsiegel2, papercuts-taskforce?
<djsiegel2> and the latter is just me, and I can push on 10 GNOME and 1 KDE paper cut per week (I am barely keeping up)
<beuno> does that sound right?
<djsiegel2> beuno: papercutters ?
<ScottK> OK, well my impression was that Canonical UX limited itself to Gnome.
<beuno> djsiegel2, I thought so, but it implies we create the papercuts, no?
<ScottK> ... for papercuts.
<djsiegel2> ScottK: yes, the lions share of our design attention goes to GNOME as far as 100pc is concern
<djsiegel2> but what is 90% of 2 hours of work?
<djsiegel2> ScottK: how would you restructure our time so that you would "be glad"?
<djsiegel2> beuno: no, I think it's cool
<djsiegel2> papercuts-taskforce sounds fine too
<beuno> djsiegel2, roger
<djsiegel2> your call
<ScottK> djsiegel2: I think that as long as you define your communications in terms of the entire Ubuntu project then it'll be fine.  It's a bit confusing to overload the term Ubuntu to mean both the entire project and one specific flavor that the project releases.
<ScottK> So it's quite possible you meant Ubuntu the project the whole time, but I just didn't read it that way.
<djsiegel2> I am looking for specific feedback on how I am running 100ppc
<djsiegel2> I don't really understand the finer point about calling "Ubuntu+GNOME" Ubuntu?
<djsiegel2> mrooney mac_v please join http://edge.launchpad.net/~papercutters
<ScottK> When you say 100ppc is working on Ubuntu do you mean all of the Ubuntu project or just ubuntu-desktop?
<djsiegel2> I mean ubuntu-desktop
<djsiegel2> I wouldn't say we work "on" Ubuntu the project
<djsiegel2> we are fixing code
<ScottK> On may not be the best word there.
<djsiegel2> it's 90% ubuntu-desktop, 10% kubuntu-desktop
<djsiegel2> if you'd rather I use package names than "Ubuntu" and "Kubuntu"
<djsiegel2> I had a discussion with seele and the desktop team at the very start
<ScottK> The confusing bit is that both ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop are part of Ubuntu.
<djsiegel2> that is the balance we agreed upon for this first cycle
<ScottK> OK.
<djsiegel2> ScottK: well, that's not in my power
<ScottK> Certainly.
<beuno> djsiegel2, done
<djsiegel2> beuno: awesome
<beuno> https://edge.launchpad.net/~papercutters
<djsiegel2> beuno: who moderates?
<beuno> add anyone you like, or applicants will notify us
<beuno> djsiegel2, canonical-ux
<beuno> owns the team
<djsiegel2> can you please accept seele, mac_v, mrooney as soon as they apply?
<djsiegel2> I will tell seele she can triage the paperkuts
<beuno> sure
<mac_v> djsiegel2: sure...
<beuno> I've added mac_v already
<djsiegel2> :)
<beuno> mac_v, can you verify that you can mark bugs as triaged?
<ScottK> djsiegel2: Making it so that someone who is paying attention to Kubuntu can triage and milestone papercuts is a good step forward.
<djsiegel2> ScottK: I am only doing it because I am so swamped with work and I want seele to do it! :)
<mac_v> beuno: yup... works
<mac_v> :)
<beuno> awesome
<djsiegel2> mrooney: I can't confirm a fix for enter-to-print-to-file in Karmic
<djsiegel2> is it not synced yet?
<djsiegel2> mrooney: can you please upstream this one: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/344228
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 344228 in hundredpapercuts "Deleting an image that's used as a desktop wallpaper removed it as a wallpaper without notice" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<mac_v> djsiegel2: Bug #388949 , round 1 bug ,  seems to have stalled, upstream wants discussion to be done on the mailing list?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 388949 in hundredpapercuts "'Clean Up by Name' -> 'Arrange by Name'" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388949
<mac_v> beuno: certain bugs invalid papercuts are producing a lot of spam , since they are active in their respective projects , shall i switch the papercut to the NULL project?
<beuno> mac_v, yes, that's a good idea
<mac_v> \o/
<ScottK> mac_v: How will people know they've already been evaluated as a papercut then?
<maco> leave a comment saying "not a papercut"?
<maco> or just give yourself an email filter that filters out all mails that say "you are receiving because you are subscribed the OneHundredPapercuts project" and also have "OneHundredPapercuts: status => invalid"
<maco> (or whatever the proper syntax is)
<ScottK> Status is only in the mail if it changes.
<maco> oh
<mac_v> ScottK: the papercut has been invalid and explained why it is not a papercut... but even after a month the mail arrives , 
<ScottK> mac_v: I understand the problem.  There's an outstanding LP request for a feature to be able to unsubscribe from bugs one is implicitly subscribed to.  This is, IMO, the proper solution to the problem.
<mac_v> surely +1 for that
<mac_v> maco:  i have filters set for each status , but some user ask for explanations for invalid papercuts , hence i need to reply , if all get clumped then the users wont be fully satisfied
<maco> gotcha
<mrooney> djsiegel2: I like the "These paper cuts are behind schedule and could use your attention..." section
<djsiegel2> mrooney: thanks
<djsiegel2> I was surprised it was only 2
<chrisccoulson> djsiegel2 - i just closed the gnome-applets task on bug 387874 - this applet has been removed in karmic now
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 387874 in hundredpapercuts "Downscrolling should decrease, not increase volume" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387874
<djsiegel2> chrisccoulson: ok, great
<djsiegel2> thank you
<mac_v> djsiegel2: : but the notification applet? how does it behave? [i'v removed it from my setup so cant check]
<djsiegel2> mac_v: hmm?
<mac_v> djsiegel2: the volume notification applet
<mac_v> does it scroll?
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - the volume control applet? yes, it scrolls (and in the correct directions)
<mac_v> djsiegel2: so thats fixed then?
<djsiegel2> mac_v: right, there's no longer a goofy scrolling-down-turns-volume-up bug
<mac_v> djsiegel2: Bug #388949 , round 1 bug ,  seems to have stalled, upstream wants discussion to be done on the mailing list?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 388949 in hundredpapercuts "'Clean Up by Name' -> 'Arrange by Name'" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388949
<mac_v> the patch is done but waiting
<djsiegel2> mac_v: then we will just carry a patch, that's so small
<djsiegel2> mac_v, will you talk to seb128 about the patch?
<mac_v> ok
<djsiegel2> thank you
<djsiegel2> "Arrange by Name" < "Rearrange by Name" >
<djsiegel2> ?
<djsiegel2> I heard a good argument for using "Rearrange" instead of "Arrange"
<djsiegel2> I think "Arrange" is a lot better than "Clean up..." though
<mac_v> djsiegel2: "Arrange" is better, i *hate* words with a re suffix!
<mac_v> djsiegel2: can you join #ubuntu-desktop? seb is available and wants some clarification
<mac_v> djsiegel2:  <seb128> mac_v, I'm not really in favor of that, that would break all translations[02:41] <seb128> mac_v, especially that djsiegel comment upstream suggest it's not so clear <mac_v> seb128: so , its a wishlist until upstream decides?[02:42] <seb128> I would prefer having somebody to engage this discussion as requested upstream before we change
<mac_v>  <seb128> that would avoid breaking all translations and having to explain to upstream later why we didnt do what they asked for and changed in ubuntu only
<djsiegel2> mac_v yeah 1 sec
<mac_v> djsiegel2: also have a look at this one > Bugs #400047 , i'v attached the screenshot , if the description is clear to you then invalidate it , IMO it could be refined a bit
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 400047 in ubiquity "[Ubiquity]Partitioner can be more properly worded" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400047
<mrooney> djsiegel2: should bug 363532 be a dupe of bug 290204 and have the milestone updated?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 363532 in ubuntu "Several system beeps on shutdown" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/363532
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 290204 in hundredpapercuts "Annoying beep on shutdown using "System -> Shut down..."" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290204
<mrooney> ie have 290204 be milestone 5 and marked fix released
<djsiegel2> mrooney: yeah, I was unsure about that
<djsiegel2> mrooney: yes, those are dupes
<djsiegel2> can you consolidate and schedule them in r5, and find a new papercut for r7?
<mrooney> I can try!
<mrooney> can I change milestones in it? let's see
<djsiegel2> I am sure you will succeed!
<djsiegel2> mrooney: you should be able to now
<mrooney> I can not, alas
<mac_v> mrooney: please join http://edge.launchpad.net/~papercutters
<mrooney> excellent thanks, awaiting approvla
<beuno> mrooney, approved
<mac_v> beuno: djsiegel2 Bug #400047 ? if the description is clear to you guys , then invalidate it , IMO it could be refined a bit
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 400047 in ubiquity "[Ubiquity]Partitioner can be more properly worded" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400047
<djsiegel2> mac_v, I definitely think we could imporve "Install them side by side"
<mac_v> so can we assign it to r7?
<djsiegel2> mac_v: let mpt make the call please
<djsiegel2> I will add a suggestion
<mrooney> beuno: thanks!
<mac_v> sure... ok
<lamalex> djsiegel2: the fusa mockups look good
<djsiegel2> lamalex: thanks
<mrooney> djsiegel2: do you mind if I clean up some of the status and mark the fix committed as fix released when the bug is actually fixed in karmic?
<djsiegel2> yeah, that would be really awesome
<djsiegel2> give this guy some props: http://www.maxxer.it/f-blog/2009/08/f-spot-0-6-0-is-out/
<mac_v> mrooney: i think i just did most of the changes :) did i miss any?
<mac_v> those*
<djsiegel2> setting them to "in progress" would also be good, if they are actively being worked on
<mrooney> hm now that bug 291259 is fixed, do we want to re-validate the papercut task and assign it somewhere?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 291259 in gvfs "smb url don't work in the run application dialog or as bookmark" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/291259
<mrooney> mac_v: bug 390362 is still Fix Committed, that is the one I was looking at
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 390362 in hundredpapercuts "Entering WEP/WPA key/passphrase requires tabbing/clicking" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/390362
<mac_v> mrooney: oh yeah.. i could test if it was fixed :)
<mac_v> not*
<mac_v> mrooney: for the smb bug , i think we can leave it as is... 
<mac_v> mrooney: when i last asked djsiegel2 about confirming an invalid bug back as fixed... he didnt want it
<djsiegel2> usually invalid means "not a paper cut," so it's not right to reverse a decision on that point simply because it's fixed
<djsiegel2> bool isPapercut (Bug x) != isFixed (x) || other paper cut criteria 
<mrooney> djsiegel2: well if the invalidation criteria was, this isn't small enough to be considered a fix, and it ends being small enough after all, I don't see why not
<mrooney> I'm not saying that was necessarily the case with that bug, but that for those cases it seems logical to re-target them 
<mac_v> mrooney: hehe...similar instance... i had validated the bug , djsiegel2 later invalidated saying it was not trivial, but was eventually trivially fixed ;p 
<djsiegel2> mac_v mrooney lamalex: click-to-rename closing comment https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/48671/comments/85
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 48671 in nautilus "Cannot rename by clicking on a file" [Wishlist,Triaged] 
<djsiegel2> mrooney: we need another papercut on round 6, hopefully one with some good progress already
<MDC2> djsiegel2, I think the one that won't let you move windows in the pager is quite important
<MDC2> djsiegel2, and is has an upstream patch as well
<djsiegel2> MDC2: sounds pretty complex to enable that
<MDC2> nope, patch is there (i wrote it :-))
<djsiegel2> djsiegel2: and I have to say, enabling that could make the switcher less usable as a whole
<djsiegel2> it promotes a really poorly designed way to move windows around
<mac_v> MDC2: bug#
<djsiegel2> clicking on 5px rectangles
<MDC2> djsiegel2, it does "Click to start moving .." when hovering..
<MDC2> mac_v, 2 sec..
<MDC2> mac_v, upstream bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=505367
<ubot4> Gnome bug 505367 in general "Compiz - Can't drag a windows to another workspace" [Normal,New] 
<MDC2> djsiegel2, both me and my girlfriend use it a lot.. 
<mac_v> MDC2: i dont think it was reported in papercuts
<djsiegel2> MDC2: I don't understand
<MDC2> even it you don't use it, it seems strange to not be able to move them..
<djsiegel2> you click a rectangle in the switcher and drag it to another workspace in the applet?
<MDC2> yep
<MDC2> as the tooltip says
<mac_v> MDC2: if you want to push it  , amaranth is the best person
<MDC2> mac_v, who's amaranth? libwnck developer?
<mac_v> MDC2: https://launchpad.net/~amaranth , he mostly deals with the compiz stuff
<MDC2> the problem is not in compiz land, its libwnck that has poor support for viewport. I've been asking vuntz on how he want it implemented (so i can fix it) - but no response so far..
<mac_v> djsiegel2: the function does not work when compiz is enabled. 
<MDC2> guess his busy with other gnome stuff...
<mac_v> MDC2: ah... libwnck is vuntz
<MDC2> yep
<MDC2> s/his/he's/
<MDC2> I've got a bunch of patches waiting for review in libwnck *hint*
<mac_v> MDC2: i think vuntz works on UTC time , you can catch him in #ubuntu-desktop
<MDC2> mac_v, i'll try (I also mailed him about it and he should have seen my patches so hopefully he will take a look at them when he has more time, don't wanna bother him if he hasn't got time)
<MDC2> isn't there any other libwnck developer that got time for reviewing patches and slapping me on the fingers when i screw up?
#ayatana 2009-08-11
<djsiegel2> ok, gtg guys
<djsiegel2> great work today! love when we all get going on the papercuts together
<MDC2> hehe, bye bye!
<mac_v> MDC2: could you look into this> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=332078
<ubot4> Gnome bug 332078 in File Search Interface "Search button should be a toggle button" [Minor,New] 
<MDC2> mac_v, isn't someone else working on that one?
<MDC2> last patch from 3 days ago...
<mac_v> MDC2: he seems to have some trouble , https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/57210/comments/8 , maybe you can speed things up :)
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 57210 in hundredpapercuts "Search button does not toggle search field" [Undecided,In progress] 
<MDC2> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=332078#c15
<ubot4> Gnome bug 332078 in File Search Interface "Search button should be a toggle button" [Minor,New] 
<MDC2> mac_v, improved patch from Nikos
<MDC2> from 8:e aug
<MDC2> 8th aug
<mac_v> MDC2: oh ok... didnt notice that
<mrooney> It would be easier to triage bugs if we could easily find all paper cut bugs which have a task marked as fix committed or released
<beuno> mrooney, you can
<mrooney> beuno: oh, how so?
<beuno> mrooney, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bugs?advanced=1
<mrooney> I mean paper cut bugs which have ANOTHER task fixed, so I can easily see what paper cuts might be fixed but aren't marked as such
<beuno> ah
<beuno> I see
<beuno> you could do that with the API if you're into python and learning new things  :)
<beuno> iterate over all papercut bugs, and query the other bugtasks
<beuno> https://help.launchpad.net/API/
 * beuno -> dinner
<ara> morning!
<mac_v> ara: hi... you are part of the design team right?
<ara> mac_v, no, I am not :(
<mac_v> ara: oh...ok, i thought you worked for canonical
<ara> mac_v, I do, but I am not part of the design team :-9
<ara> :-)
<ara> mac_v, what's the question, anyways?
<mac_v> ara: ah... well... MDC2 has been itching to fix the missing icons from the menus... when you find a menu not having an icon kindly report a bug and inform MDC2 :)
<ara> mac_v, ok, will do :)
<mac_v> :)
<MDC2> mac_v, should we also fix all the applications that still has icons on buttons?
<mac_v> MDC2: where? i dont recall any buttons having icons
<MDC2> mac_v, one example is update manager
<MDC2> mac_v, computer janitor
<MDC2> mac_v, I think applications that has set images by "force" still have their icons
<mac_v> MDC2: nice catch... they should be removed , open lp bug reports about that and also remind mpt
<mac_v> MDC2: BTW , update manager is being revamped , so mpt *needs* to be reminded about the buttons
<MDC2> mac_v, by force i mean not using standard stock icons but in stead add an image to the hbox inside the button
<MDC2> mac_v, so i think the problem exists on a lot of places..
<mac_v> MDC2: each app will need a separate patch... to fix the OS fully will take time
<MDC2> mac_v, yep. I'm not sure how to fix those issues..
<mac_v> MDC2: the major problem as i said before is, alpha users have just reverted the gconf setting...! so devs are aware of the problem nor are they bothered as of now
<MDC2> mac_v, also ubuntu one (click connect)
<MDC2> mac_v, mhm.. but we can be one step ahead :-)
<mac_v> MDC2: thats where you come ;)
<MDC2> mac_v, nevermind ubuntu one - it was firefox restore prev session
<MDC2> didn't look at the text, just saw the icons
<MDC2> mac_v, ;-)
<MDC2> mac_v, main menu editor is a good example (4 icons)
<MDC2> mac_v, screensaver prefs, startup app prefs...
<MDC2> mac_v, what's said about icons in tabs?
<mac_v> MDC2: tag all LP bug reports "menu-icons" , so that these are easier to find
<MDC2> mac_v, it's not menu icons, it's button icons ;_)
<mac_v> MDC2: i know , but just tag "menu-icons" so that they are all together
<MDC2> ok, but no time today, and now breakfast. but it seems like a huge job.......
<mac_v> MDC2: thats because the design team is already aware of that tag , and can later name if they want
<mac_v> ok sure... bye
<mac_v> djsiegel1: i didnt realize that :) i thought Humanity was already decided as the default
<djsiegel1> mac_v nope
<djsiegel1> DanRabbit1: see the sound-and-video icon (used in main menu) -- can you add some color?
<djsiegel1> it's two dark overlapping objects
<djsiegel1> it's so black
<mac_v> djsiegel1: a simple one > Bug #409338 do you wanna fix this?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 409338 in hundredpapercuts "Change the name of "Hardware drivers"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/409338
<djsiegel1> mac_v confirm it
<djsiegel1> it's not a great one, but it is an easy fix
<djsiegel1> users don't encounter it frequently
<djsiegel1> and it auto-opens on install
<mac_v> djsiegel1: yeah not a great one > but the menu is always visible thats the only problem , ideally displaying the menu item *only* when drivers are used would be better
<djsiegel1> mac_v: it's not a good idea to add/remove items from a menu conditionally, without explicit user action
<djsiegel1> documentation would have to say "open System > Hardware Drivers. If you can't find it, you don't have drivers"
<mac_v> ah...
<mac_v> djsiegel1: are we short of papercuts? do you want new ones?
<djsiegel1> yes, we always want new ones
<djsiegel1> I think we have 97 or 98
<djsiegel1> and 6 paperkuts
<mac_v> djsiegel1: i think you can ask seele to find 4 kuts first we can fill the rest later
<mrooney1> djsiegel: round 5 had 11 bugs targeted, should one of them move to round 9 which has 9?
<mrooney1> (also I just moved one to fix committed, hooray!)
<djsiegel> mrooney1: wait 1 sec
<djsiegel3> mrooney: usually there will be 10 papercuts + 1 paperkut
<mrooney> ah, I see
<mrooney> hm, I don't seem to see where bug 388949 is actually committed, do you know mac_v?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 388949 in hundredpapercuts "'Clean Up by Name' -> 'Arrange by Name'" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388949
<mac_v> mrooney: the patch is done, but needs to be discussed upstream mailing lists , because of concerns about breaking translations
<mac_v> we can fix it in ubuntu side alone , if we want
<mrooney> ah okay, but there is no fix committed, right?
<mrooney> maybe it should be set to Triaged?
<mac_v> mrooney: nope , no lp  branches ,  triaged would be correct and unassign it
<mrooney> okay cool, I shall adjust it, thanks :)
<mccann_> hey djsiegel1 
<djsiegel1> hey mccann_
<mccann_> djsiegel1: was just curious how your backgrounds contest is coming?
<djsiegel1> mccann_: really really well
<djsiegel1> we've had 1,600 submissions
<mccann_> nice!
<djsiegel1> do you know how many submissions we got last time we did the wallpaper contest?
<djsiegel1> 8!
<mccann_> wow
<djsiegel1> seriously
<mccann_> yeah our gnome contest last year didn't get too many
<djsiegel1> that's the difference between using the Ubuntu wiki to collect submissions, and flickr
<mccann_> agree
<mccann_> smart move
<djsiegel1> It's the new eyes we have on the design team
<mccann_> is there any way to verify the authenticity of the license on each?
<djsiegel1> we were all like "umm, we are not using this wiki"
<djsiegel1> mccann_: well, I am supposed to write a script this week
<djsiegel1> to download them all and categorize by license 
<djsiegel1> then we are going to figure out how to pick
<mccann_> many times on flickr people incorrectly tag with CC
<djsiegel1> hopefully there are 8 or 10 really good ones in there
<djsiegel1> well, maybe we'll whittle it down to 100
<mccann_> as i noticed when I was collecting images for the background survey I did
<djsiegel1> or 50
<djsiegel1> then start doing some more investigation
<djsiegel1> we will contact artists directly before using their work
<mccann_> good idea
<djsiegel1> just to verify, and to get a larger copy of the image
<mccann_> yeah
<mccann_> are you going for different themes?
<djsiegel1> I am not sure, I don't think I will be involved with picking the finalists
<mccann_> btw http://www.gnome.org/~mccann/art/State%20of%20the%20Art%20-%20Wallpapers%20-%202009-08-07.pdf
<mccann_> how are you judging?
<djsiegel1> mccann_: I don;t know yet
<djsiegel1> mccann_: this is cool
<mccann_> djsiegel1: you should check out the win7 ones in there
<djsiegel1> I know, I have seen them
<djsiegel1> that's what kicked this off
<mccann_> it would be great to have different categories like that
<djsiegel1> I saw these and frantically emailed some folks saying "we can't let windows ship more interesting wallpapers"
<mccann_> yeah i did the same
<djsiegel1> those XP ones are still pretty great
<mccann_> except i didn't have the time to follow up :)
<mccann_> I'm excited that you did !
<mccann_> so what do you think about putting some of these in gnome-backgrounds?
<djsiegel1> well, I guess that's the call of the original artists
<djsiegel1> I am sure they won't object
<djsiegel1> although I also think we'd like to have some ubuntu-only ones
<mccann_> but you are licensing CC-BY-SA right?
<djsiegel1> but there's no way we could or would push something like that
<djsiegel1> I don;t know much about CC licensing to be honest
<mccann_> what is your license requirement ?
<mccann_> do you have contest rules?
<djsiegel1> mccann_: yeah, check my blog
<djsiegel1> it links to the wiki describing the contest
<djsiegel1> I think we should do pre-defined categories for the next release
<djsiegel1> say "we're looking for 5 photos of flowers, 5 of animals, and 5 abstract illustrations"
<djsiegel1> mccann_: have you seen the snow leopard ones yet?
<mccann_> some of them
<mccann_> ok so the guidelines page doesn't have licensing requirements apparently
<mccann_> but your blog post says CC-BY-SA is required
<mccann_> djsiegel1: anyway looks like it will be very successful.  I didn't see the deadline listed.  When will the selections be made?
<djsiegel1> mccann_: I am going to write the script to download submissions pretty soon
<djsiegel1> will probably run it this weekend
<djsiegel1> so if you want to get something in, I recommend doing it ASAP
<mccann_> ok
<maco> djsiegel1: why have the pdf output of stuff go to Desktop? Documents seems more sensible... portable document format...
<djsiegel1> maco: I am just worried about discoverability
<djsiegel1> ~/Documents works too
<djsiegel1> well...
<djsiegel1> actually
<djsiegel1> think about what you are doing after you print to pdf
<djsiegel1> why do users print to pdf? what comes next?
<djsiegel1> that was my original justification for Documents < Desktop
<djsiegel1> the argument is, the PDF is transitory
<djsiegel1> it's going to be sent or printed, then usually discarded
<djsiegel1> the source document is kept, probably in ~/Documents
<djsiegel1> so the Desktop is used as a scratch space, thinking that the user is about to go do something with the shiny PDF they just made
<djsiegel1> this is a stretch, but think about when you physically print a document
<djsiegel1> it ends up in your working area, your "desktop"
<maco> hmm ok. i usually consider the pdf the "Final" version
<djsiegel1> you may email it, or send it
<djsiegel1> maco: so, you print PDFs then file them away?
<djsiegel1> so later, when you refer to the document, or print or send it, you use the PDF?
<maco> yes
<djsiegel1> I do that with old documents I am not working on any more
<djsiegel1> "final" versions
<maco> maybe it comes from being a latex-user, but i do all my printing from evince or okular
<djsiegel1> sounds like a special case, but nonetheless a valid one :)
<djsiegel1> maco: maybe we can test PDF usage next, after we finish the archive behavior research?
<maco> i just figure anyone that's noticed how .doc and .odf can inexplicably change when moved from system to system uses pdf
<maco> archive behaviour?
<maco> OH zips tars?
<djsiegel1> haha
<djsiegel1> exactly
<maco> i was thinking achive.ubuntu.com
<djsiegel1> we had ZERO people participate in the distributed user test
<maco> the phrase "the archive" means the same as "the repos" to me, so that was a -ENOPARSE
<maco> distributed user test?
<djsiegel1> maco: http://davidsiegel.org/distributed-user-testing-archives/
<maco> i kinda think a more common sense name for archive would be bundle
<maco> the concept of bundling things up is fairly straight forward
<maco> hard to transfer 10 files at once / hard to carry 10 things at once ... so you put them in a bundle and carry /transfer the bundle
<maco> archives are like...basements...things go there and never come back
#ayatana 2009-08-12
<lool> Hey folks
<lool> Who's doing indicator-sus
<lool> It says Vcs-Bzr: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/indicator-sus/ubuntu
<lool> but there's no such branch
<lool> and the description is bogus
<njpatel> lool: it's ted's code and kenvandin + seb were talking about it yesterday
<lool> Thanks I sent them an email
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<mac_v> djsiegel1: ping
<mac_v> djsiegel1: Bug #369706 ,  mvo has committed the fix , i think it would be done by karmic , hence i'v assigned it to round 10
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 369706 in hundredpapercuts "Update interactes badly with noninteracitve automatic updates" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369706
<djsiegel1> mac_v I am checking it out
<mac_v> djsiegel1: also , we are at sometime or the other , always looking for replacement bugs, should i set some good confirmed papercuts as "Triaged" ? this would be easier to find them quickly 
<djsiegel1> mac_v or use tags?
<djsiegel1> do what you think is useful
<mac_v> djsiegel1: i think triaged is better  , because it is actually getting triaged , it can be done for this cycle or Karmic+1
<mac_v> mpt: hi... *in-case* you havent noticed this blog > http://www.brandonwalkin.com/blog/2009/08/10/managing-ui-complexity/ 
#ayatana 2009-08-13
<mac_v> mrooney: ping
<mrooney> mac
<mrooney> mac_v: hi!
<mac_v> mrooney: hi.. is this bug fixed ? Bug #386196 
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 386196 in update-manager "package synopsis/tagline/summary should be first, not package name" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386196
<mac_v> the list displayed is different from jaunty ,but i think it can be refined properly... 
<mrooney> mac_v: hm I don't know, I haven't booted into Karmic in a bit
<mac_v> mrooney: ok... nevermind... i think mpt will take care of it :)
<mrooney> yes, I think faith in him is deserved :)
<thekorn> hi, I'm just looking over the list of todays notify-osd hugday, and there is one question for me:
<thekorn> is it a valid bug if something is not working/not looking like described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD ?
<MDC2> mac_v, I'll take a look at the patches you sent me
<mac_v> MDC2: nice...  :)
<MDC2> mac_v, is this still an issue now that text beside icons is the default? https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/390724
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 390724 in nautilus "Back button (most used) in Nautilus smaller than rest" [Low,Confirmed] 
<mac_v> MDC2: text beside icon is default? 
<MDC2> mac_v, hmm.. maybe it was only proposed.. ok, sorry then :)
<mac_v> MDC2: :) , text below is the default , BTW is it possible to fix it? without adding whitespaces?
<MDC2> mac_v, not sure, I think I took a look at it earlier and couldn't see anything strange then, but i'll see what can be dont
<MDC2> done
<MDC2> mac_v, hmm.. another thing (about icons in menus again) - when a toolbar get to small to display all items it gets a dropdown menu. Should that menu has icons?
<mac_v> MDC2: example? an icon needs to be used if it is essential it doesn matter if it is in the progressive-disclosure menu or not
<MDC2> mac_v, nautilus for example. ok.
<mac_v> MDC2: Bug #160311 , can invisible borders be added in metacity rather than the theme?
<MDC2> mac_v, but it do seems a little bit strange. just because the window is to small to display the buttons (which could be icon only) the icons aren't "important" enough when displayed in a menu... 
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 160311 in hundredpapercuts "Resizing windows by grabbing window borders is difficult" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160311
<MDC2> mac_v, hmm.. could take a look at it after the nautilus bugs - but i will probably fail :-)
<mac_v> MDC2: screenshot pls? i really dont understand where the nautilus menus are being sorted into drop down
<MDC2> ah.. np
<MDC2> http://www.mejlamej.nu/tm.png
<mac_v> MDC2: nope, icons need to be displayed with text, if an object is using an icon it must *always* use the icon consistenly... 
<mac_v> MDC2: if the the drop down doesnt show the text , its fine , but icons need to be present
<mac_v> that is because , the user has selected the option , only icons , so text should not be displayed
<MDC2> mac_v, not really with you - do you mean that it should display the icons to be consistent with the toolbar?
<mac_v> MDC2: yes , only icons in the drop down too
<MDC2> mac_v, ok so it's a gtk bug again :-)
<mac_v> MDC2: how is that ? it needs to be parched in nautilus alone right?
<mac_v> patched*
<MDC2> mac_v, no its the toolbar that auto creates the dropdown
<mac_v> oh ... ok
<MDC2> mac_v, http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkToolbar.html#GtkToolbar--show-arrow
<mac_v> MDC2: actually no... i think its nautilus that needs a patch , enable the menu have icon gconf , and you can see the icon
<MDC2> mac_v, yeah.. but how come that be a nautilus problem? Shouldn't gtk always set the icons in toolbar menus if the toolbar has menus?
<MDC2> "toolbar has icons"..
<mac_v> MDC2: i think it turns off icons from all menus , doesn have a setting for toolbars separately
<MDC2> mac_v, exactly, but shouldn't toolbar menu set the "always icon" property on the menu items?
<MDC2> mac_v, ... when to toolbar has icons
<mac_v> MDC2: i'm not sure .... but cant nautilus do that ? force only icons on in the drop down
<MDC2> mac_v, no it can't (as far as I know) - only gtk
<MDC2> mac_v, or maybe when this bug is fixed; http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=589842
<ubot4> MDC2: Error: Could not parse XML returned by Gnome: timed out
<MDC2> mdcbugbot: GtkAction API to have its menu item proxies have always-show-image set
<mac_v> MDC2: well, for now , we can just force the icons , the text can be removed later
<MDC2> mac_v, something like this; http://www.mejlamej.nu/free.png
<mac_v> MDC2: can the "free space" be always constant either on left or right? [preferably left]
<mac_v> edge that is
<MDC2> mac_v, problem is when space is limited i would favour see information about the stuff I've selected rather then free space..
<mac_v> MDC2: but constantly moving one element's position is not right , it needs to be fixed
<mac_v> MDC2: the problem you point out , is only when the window is tiny , which is rare
<MDC2> mac_v, and "always last" is not a valid fixed position? :)
<mac_v> nope ;)
<MDC2> mac_v, well, a "tiny" window like that isn't rare the full text with folders and items and free space takes up almost 750px..
<MDC2> mac_v, and if you don't browse in fullscreen (i hope most people don't) and have a small screen (eg netbook), the string will be cut..
<MDC2> mac_v, http://www.mejlamej.nu/pe.png to get perspective of the size..
<mac_v> MDC2: i actually dont see a problem, you just are re-arranging the order , there is extra space on the right too , but it wont be necessary
<mac_v> MDC2: the normal window will be able fit all the info wit some space left...
<MDC2> mac_v, problem is also that free space isn't always available..
<mac_v> MDC2: how about aligning "Free space" to the right constantly?
<mac_v> MDC2: why isnt it available?
<MDC2> Computer
<MDC2> mac_v, and ssh shares for example
<mac_v> MDC2: ah... those we dont need to display... we could just leave the space empty , we cant access them
<MDC2> mac_v, i'll give right aligning the text a try..
<mac_v> MDC2: also "F" for "Free space" not "f"
<MDC2> yep
<mac_v> MDC2: the screenshots were using the small letter , hence i reminded :)
<MDC2> mac_v, fixed here :)
<MDC2> mac_v, hmm.. that seems like a little bit more work than I thought.. maybe I should ask upstream what they think about this first?
<mac_v> MDC2: sure... 
<MDC2> mac_v, about the eject bug - what exactly is to be done? 1) icons from menus are removed so this is of little importance now and 2) haven't got my question answered either... 
<mac_v> MDC2: oops , mpt is not here.! does eject not count as an object? i'm a bit confused about that..
<MDC2> mac_v, oh.. have no idea - as you know i'm quite lost in the icons here not icons there thingy ;-)
<MDC2> mac_v, lets ask mpt when he gets back
<MDC2> mac_v, but if they always should have icons - should both eject and unmount have icons?
<mac_v> MDC2: i thought i replied to that , unmount is being replaced every where with eject , unmount will be used only for partitioons
<MDC2> mac_v, but still - should they have icons?
<mac_v> MDC2: only one option would exist [either eject/unmount] but the icon i'm confused
<MDC2> mac_h, ok, but it isn't changed yet - right?
<MDC2> mac_v, karmic up2date still have both unmount and eject for cdrom
<mac_v> MDC2: yeah i know... can you confirm when that change will be done fully?
<mac_v> with upstream , let me get you a link where it was said
<MDC2> mac_v, first check with mpt?
<mac_v> MDC2: sure
<mac_v> MDC2: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/28835/comments/62 , is Milan upstream nautilus dev?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 28835 in hundredpapercuts ""Unmount" in volume right-click menu, is tech-speak and undiscoverable" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<MDC2> mac_v, have no idea, just get in to this world :-)
<mac_v> ;)
<hyperair> i think unmount is as good as it gets, so just live with it =p
<mac_v> hyperair: me too :)
<mac_v> hyperair: MDC2 we are trying to simplify unmount to Eject , while Win7 now has "Dismount" ! 
<mac_v> then what again back to unmount in a few yrs!
 * hyperair facepalm
<hyperair> dismount, unmount, blargh!
<hyperair> unmount is a better term imo
<hyperair> hell umount stands for unmount
<hyperair> just stick with it
<hyperair> mark it won'tfix or something
<MDC2> mac_v, i think i have to give up on the back button; tried setting both back and forward to homogeneous but it didn't help (not sure why, no warnings/error - nothing). And forcing the button to a specific width would create more problem (icons only, text besides icons, different theme/language/font etc) ... so I have no clue what to do... 
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<mac_v> MDC2: ok... leave the bug assigned to you , see if in a week or 2 you have any ideas , if not unassign it , and attach what you have done , so others can carry it forward
<MDC2> mpt, about https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/392423, should the eject icon be always-visible ?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 392423 in nautilus "unmount menu option should have an icon" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 
<mpt> MDC2, none of the items shown in <http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28415201/papercut.png> represent dynamic objects, so none should have icons by default
<mpt> eject included
<MDC2> mpt, thanks. mac_v ^^
<mpt> I have no objection to you adding it for the people who have icons turned on. :-)
<MDC2> mpt, then I think the patch availible should be enough
<mac_v> MDC2: :) 
<mpt> I'll add this to the bug report
<MDC2> mac_v - so no action until the unmount, dismount, eject, whatever issue has been solved?
<MDC2> mpt, thanks
<mac_v> MDC2: yeah , i guess , the patch isnt even necessary
<MDC2> mpt, what about trash? isn't that a "place" ?
<mpt> MDC2, yes it is, but "Move to Trash" is not
<MDC2> ok.. :-)
<MDC2> mac_v, close as wontfix?
<mpt> If there was a "Move to" submenu that had a bunch of items, "Home", "Documents", "Photos", "Trash", etc, it would make sense to give each of *those* icons
<MDC2> mpt, like in send to?
<mpt> like the "Open With" submenu has (or soon will have) icons for each application
<mpt> yes
<mpt> well, like the Send To submenu in Windows
<mpt> The "Send To" dialog in Nautilus is weird, I don't understand it
<mac_v> MDC2: yeah , done
<MDC2> mpt, hm... i thought we had send to menu in nautilus, but now when I looked it looks like we don't.. 
<MDC2> mpt, haven't we had sent to bluetooth stuff?
<mpt> MDC2, maybe we do, I don't have bluetooth on this machine
<MDC2> mpt, found the bluetooth dongle and its in the dialog...
<mac_v> mpt: you said earlier context menus shouldnt have submenus ;) , why send to is a exception ;p
<mac_v> an*
<mpt> mac_v, it's not, I don't think the Windows "Send To" submenu is a good design either
<mpt> I'm commenting only on, *if* it existed, whether the items in it should have icons or not :-)
<mac_v> hehe.., ok ;)
<mpt> Same goes for the existing "Open With", though I expect not many people would agree with me on that
<MDC2> mpt, I for one don't :-)
<mac_v> mpt: if its not a submenu it would become too huge :( , we need to have an "advanced options " context menu item , which has submenus ,and decrease the main context menu items
<mac_v> mpt: BTW , i'v over-burdened you ;p  , i'v assigned a few update-manager bugs to you , they are all simple design decisions , while you are reworking the u-m
<mac_v> MDC2: mpt: weird , why do we have 2 options "Open" and "Browse" when we click on folders on Desktop? and both do the same
<MDC2> mac_v, i think there's a bug about that...
<mac_v> ah...
<mpt> mac_v, the "Open With" submenu easily becomes huge too (especially for Web developers for example), to the point where going straight to a dialog would be more managable
<mpt> mac_v, MDC2, they do the same thing if "Always open in browser windows" is checked, but different things if it's unchecked
<mac_v> oh , you want to add dialogues ... hmm..
<mpt> Exercise for you: Think of three different designs for fixing that Open vs. Browse problem. :-)
<mac_v> mpt: you mean , for the one i just mentioned ?
<mpt> yes
<mac_v> hmm...
<mpt> (now that I've told you the immediate cause of the problem)
<MDC2> 1) remove either spatial or browsing mode 2) remove one option if isnt necessary 3) just leave it, only 0.2 % people that will care, the rest won't notice :-)
<mpt> #1 and #2 are designs for fixing it. #3 is a design for *not* fixing it. :-P
<mac_v> lol 
<mpt> The reason both items are there, afaik, is that even people who use spatial mode (such as myself) want to browse occasionally, mainly when we're diving in and out of deep hierarchies
<mpt> So #2 would make me incapable of browsing at all
<mpt> The Nautilus maintainers' approach is, afaict, that whether you want spatial mode or not is user-specific. My approach is that it's partly user-specific, but partly folder-specific. The browser stuff is rarely useful when foraging through the Trash, for example.
<mac_v> I have never used spatial windows...  anyways, 1] label "Open" > "Spatial mode" /"Spatial viewer" or something with "Spatial" it the option
<mpt> Well there's already an item labelled "Open" and an item labelled "Browse". Merely renaming the items wouldn't fix the bug, and it would also introduce a new "spatial" term for people to learn when they really needn't.
<mpt> Currently the only time users come across the "spatial" term is if they make the grave mistake of going into Nautilus's help. ;-)
<mpt> "For a comparison of browser mode and spatial mode, see Section 6.1.2 File Manager Presentation, subclause (a) (ii), paragraph 4. Please take caffeine pills before proceeding."
<mac_v> mpt: corollary to 1] rename "Browse folder" > "Open" and make it the first choice ,  this would be better than the present behavior ... i still have to come up with 2 ,3 ;p
<mpt> So, here's a (4): "Open" always opens in spatial mode, and "Browse" always opens in browser mode. Change the "Always open in browser windows" checkbox to a pair of radio buttons: "Double-clicking opens a folder in: (*)  the same window  ( ) a separate window".
<mpt> So double-clicking does what you expect, the Enter key does the same thing as double-clicking does, but both items are in the context menu in case you want to do the opposite for a particular folder.
<mac_v> mpt: hei ... you just stole part of 2 ;)
<mpt> By my count I'm not removing any options, just replacing one with another :-)
<mpt> It's a good rule of thumb that whenever a checkbox label starts with the word "Always", it's unclear and needs to be turned into a pair of radio buttons.
<mac_v> "Double-clicking opens a folder in: (*)  the same window  ( ) a separate window" < this is the exact windows XP option , i wonder why nautilus did it differently!
<mpt> Really? Windows XP has the same?
<mac_v> mpt: yeah exact, since SP2 i'm not sure if earlier
<mpt> huh, so it is
<mac_v> mpt: IIRC , same words too , i think you must have had a deja-vous ;p
<mpt> http://help.aol.com/Platform/Publishing/images/xp_folder_options_view_tab_modified.gif
<mac_v> oh... not same words ;)
<mac_v> mpt: do you store all these images? or random google them? 
<mpt> Google Images is my friend
<mac_v> :)
<mac_v> mpt: BTW , have you noticed this blog > http://www.brandonwalkin.com/blog/2009/08/10/managing-ui-complexity/ 
<mac_v> was a nice read
<mpt> mac_v, yes
<mpt> I found the first section particularly interesting in that Windows applications are becoming less consistent with each other over time
<mac_v> yeah , and also the alignment section , BTW is he an apple designer? 
<mpt> e.g. Microsoft gained masses of click data that told them that Paste was the most commonly used action in Microsoft Word, so Paste has a big fat button at the start of the Word 2007 ribbon. But then how do you paste in OneNote 2007, or Access 2007, or Internet Explorer 8? It's in four different places.
<mpt> "I work as a User Experience Designer at Marketcircle", it says
<mac_v> hehe , just noticed that !
<mpt> Apple designers hardly ever talk about their work publicly
<mpt> (software designers, at least, Jony Ive occasionally gives talks)
<mpt> http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2008/03/apples_design_p.html is a notable exception
<mac_v> :/
<mac_v> yeah , i'v read that some time ago
<mac_v> mpt: 2] Behavior tab has> Always open windows [*] In same browser [ ] Spatial Windows , when user has selected the an option for instance: Browser , the first option "Open" opens windows in Browser , second option is now "Spatial mode" , if user has selected Spatial , "Open" opens windows in spatial mode and the second option is now "Browse" 
<mac_v> as of now there is no way to open folders in spatial view!
<mac_v> if the user selects the browser option
<mpt> mac_v, ok, now work on that some more so that it doesn't need to display the word "spatial" anywhere :-)
<mpt> Spatial presentation is a design philosophy, it's a *reason* for showing folders in separate windows, it's not a term users should have to know about themselves.
<mac_v> mpt: simple > just replace spatial > with a user friendly word
<mac_v> ;p
<mpt> such as? :-)
<mac_v> ah... 
<mac_v> mpt: mini viewer / compact viewer , mini browser / compact browser , something funky > "nautilus eye"
<mpt> Nautilus eye?
<mac_v> hehe... ;) 
<mac_v> like "Eye of gnome"
<GuyFromHell> I'm planning to make a patch on pidgin-libnotify to make the indicator applet optional (in terms of the ./configure script) so that I can get it running on my distro. would you guys like it after i'm done?
<GuyFromHell> err, by pidgin-libnotify i mean debian patched pidgin-libnotify
<GuyFromHell> wouldn't really change user's experience any, just want any other maints that come along not want to kill themselves
<mac_v> djsiegel2: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/400047/comments/10
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 400047 in hundredpapercuts "Installer's "Install them side by side" option is vague and confusing" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<djsiegel2> mac_v stop bikeshedding
<djsiegel2> the bug is to fix "them" -- it's starting to drag out
<djsiegel2> and there is no significant difference in the phrasing of "share the disk" and "use the entire disk"
<djsiegel2> to say one is a command and the other is something else -- I just don't see it
<mac_v> djsiegel2: i would say , if you are fixing something fix it properly , but whatever is fine ...
<djsiegel2> mac_v: we need to figure out when we stop fixing though
<djsiegel2> Evan suggested redoing the installer, I think we can agree that goes too far
<djsiegel2> I just think we are picking nits
<djsiegel2> I can't imagine a user reading the options we have now and raising your objection
<mac_v> djsiegel2: if he is fixing the installer we can invalidate the bug
<GuyFromHell> So, how about that patch. Do you guys want it? Else it's going to rot in my hard drive since there's no other good place to put it.
<mac_v> GuyFromHell: tedg is the person who is involved...he isnt here now...  you might try asking in #ubuntu-desktop
<GuyFromHell> I'll just send him an e-mail with the patches, if he doesn't want it he can delete the e-mail or whatever
<GuyFromHell> wow, i think he needs more email addresses :P
<GuyFromHell> on second thought, this should prob go into launchpad. i'll do that instead...
#ayatana 2009-08-14
<lamalex> kenvandine: is empathy in karmic going to have adium support? or geoclue? or libchamplain?
<lamalex> adium theme that is
<mac_v> mrooney|w: hi... synaptic is either way going to be replaced in Karmic+1 , IMO , there is no need for a papercut
<mac_v> we caould just let the task in synaptic remain and be fixed in synaptic
<mac_v> could*
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<mac_v> djsiegel: i think you misread my comment yesterday
<djsiegel> mac_v: which one?
<djsiegel> I bet I did :)
<mac_v> djsiegel: my reply was not about share / instal but rather a reply to "shouldn't the response be from the perspective of the respondent?"
<djsiegel> yes
<mac_v> djsiegel: just dont be too hasty in saying someone is bikeshedding  :/ 
<djsiegel> mac_v, the bug is fixing the unknown antecedent of "them"
<djsiegel> and your comment was that "share the disk" and "use the entire disk" are not phrased from the same perspective?
<mac_v> djsiegel: yeah that was fine but adding the "I" , was not
<djsiegel> ok, I see
<djsiegel> What do you propose instead?
<djsiegel> Does it make a difference to users?
<djsiegel> Is it harder to use, or less beautiful right now?
<djsiegel> If it communicates the choice (users can understand it without difficulty), it is bikeshedding unless there's an alternative that you can provide that is unambiguously better
<djsiegel> so do it! :)
<mac_v> djsiegel: installers , do not use  "I" , but since it is an installer , it will be in almost all the guides , and will be quickly pointed out
<djsiegel> Installers do not use "I"?
<djsiegel> Installer starts with "I"!
<djsiegel> maybe Ubuntu's installer should be all about "I"
<mac_v> thats what i said , if you want all as response ,  "I"  then the 3 need to be changed
<djsiegel> So, you think the options should not be from the perspective of the user?
<mac_v> I havent seen an installer , which has options like that
<mac_v> djsiegel: i think rather than , patching it up , Evan canfix it properly
<djsiegel> mac_v, that's fine, but what is your proposal
<djsiegel> "show me the code"
<mac_v> ah... just a sec
<djsiegel> stop arguing these fine details, and just give the improved suggestion
<djsiegel> I understand your hesitancy to use "I", but it's possible that using "I" makes the software friendly, easy to use and understand
<djsiegel> there is no inviolable law of nature set against the use of "I" in software installers
<mac_v> djsiegel: Share the disk with existing installations [ allows choosing between them when You start the computer]
<djsiegel> ok, so, you've added a parenthetical voice
<djsiegel> I argue that it's now harder to read
<mac_v> ok i give up
<djsiegel> "share" is imperative
<djsiegel> the user is telling the installer to share
<djsiegel> then it shifts in voice back to the installer
<mac_v> djsiegel: the words within brackets are explanations , similar to the [advanced]
<djsiegel> but I do think it's more grammatically correct than my suggestion
<mac_v> 3rd option
<djsiegel> Share the disk with existing installations, choosing between them when I start the computer
<djsiegel> "choosing" seems the wrong tense
<djsiegel> Share the disk with existing installations; allow me to choose between them when I start the computer
<djsiegel> two commands
<djsiegel> but the semi-colon is recondite
<kholerabbi> Share the disk with existing installations and allow me to choose between them when I start the computer
<djsiegel> hmm
<djsiegel> yes that's good
<djsiegel> we're getting longer and longer though
<kholerabbi> Sorry, I actually haven't a clue what this is about.
<djsiegel> hehe
<djsiegel> np, good suggestion kholerabbi
<djsiegel> hmm, I'd prefer a comma
<djsiegel> Share the disk with existing installations, allow me to choose between them when I start the computer
<djsiegel> mac_v, better? ^
<mac_v> djsiegel: better , 
<djsiegel> "share the disk", "allow me to choose", "use the entire disk"
<djsiegel> "specify partitions manually..." is the odd one out
<kholerabbi> wtf is empathy telling me "doesn't" is bad spelling O.o
<mac_v> djsiegel: "Let me specify manually"
<djsiegel> hmm, we're supposed to avoid "letting" the user take action
<djsiegel> it makes the user feel like the computer is in control instead of vice versa
<mac_v> hmmm..
<MDC1> "custom design"
<mac_v> djsiegel: "Choose advanced options"
<djsiegel> too vague
<djsiegel> "Use special partitioning (advanced)"
<kholerabbi> 'advanced' should be avoided
<mac_v> kholerabbi: advanced needs to be mentioned so that novice users dont mess up
<mac_v> djsiegel: i think it sounds good , or "Use advanced partitioning"
<djsiegel> "Use advanced partitioning...
<djsiegel> and no need for "(advanced)"
<djsiegel> great! want to update the bug?
<djsiegel> post a new comment with just the suggestions and a small comment, let the "mockup" argue itself
<kholerabbi> "Share the disk with existing installations, allow me to choose between them when I start the computer"... I'm tired, so might be nit-picking, but "allowing" sounds more correct than "allow".
<mac_v> djsiegel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/400047/comments/14
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 400047 in hundredpapercuts "Installer's "Install them side by side" option is vague and confusing" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<AnAnt> Hello
<AnAnt> is it possible for an app using notify-OSD to disable "truncation" capability from notification daemon ?
<AnAnt> if not, how can I know the maximum length of text before it gets truncated ?
<mac_v> AnAnt: apps cant override the truncation , i think the limit is in the wiki > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD , if not, ask MacSlow 
<MacSlow> correct, apps cannot override that
<MacSlow> AnAnt, the reason is to avoid spam
<MacSlow> notification-spam
<AnAnt> I see
<AnAnt> thanks
<AnAnt> so, is messaging menu only for messaging (IM / email ...) apps ?
<AnAnt> back to the first question, the wiki says that maximum text length is 10 lines
<AnAnt> now, how long is a single line?
<hyperair> hmm regarding that messaging menu, it appears to be using some strange font hinting that results in the text having a shade of purple
<mac_v> hyperair: lol ... bug # ?
<hyperair> didn't file one
 * hyperair is lazy
<hyperair> you can go file it for me =D
<mac_v> hyperair: hehe... WFM , so i cant complain ;p
<AnAnt> is there a wiki for messaging menu ?
<mac_v> AnAnt: search the wiki , there is a page
<mac_v> mpt:  about the nautilus spatial mode , are you fixing it or ... ?
<hyperair> spatial mode?
<hyperair> is that the strange mode that opens a new window with every folder?
<mac_v> yeah
<mpt> mac_v, no, I haven't done anything about that
<mac_v> mpt: ah... should i file a bug?
<mac_v> upstream that is
<mpt> mac_v, sure
<mac_v> mpt: any other alternate name for spatial mode?
<mac_v> i'll add that to the bug
<mpt> mac_v, as I suggested yesterday, I think the "Open" item should always be there to open in a spatial-mode window, and the "Browse" item always there to open in a browser-mode window
<mpt> so, no need for a special term
<mac_v> ok
<mrooney|w> mac_v: yeah that sounds reasonable
<mac_v> mrooney|w: i usually invalidate any synaptic bugs , letting mvo deal with it at his leisure ;)
<mrooney|w> mac_v: did you see those 20 papercuts all filed by the same person last night, with the entire bug in the description
<mrooney|w> looks like fun!
<mac_v> yeah... i have them all bookmarked , to be invalidated ;p most are just new idea!
<mac_v> ideas*
<mac_v> mrooney|w: you should have seen papercuts initaily , every person would file 10 bugs , all new ideas! once they know wht it is actually they stop
<mrooney|w> yeah
<mrooney|w> I wish it was clearer that papercuts are just a task and that the bug also needs be placed in the right package
<mac_v> mrooney|w: pls , invalidate them , i just got tied up with , with a few crashes in my sys. ,
<mac_v> mrooney|w: this should make things easier > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Invalid%20One%20Hundred%20Paper%20Cuts
<mrooney|w> I am at work ATM so I may not get to them :)
<mac_v> mrooney|w: np ... ok... ;) , i'll get to it later
#ayatana 2010-08-16
<klattimer> seb128: people are reporting problems with the ibus patch :/
<klattimer> I think it's related to the missing ibus-m17n in packaging and some files not being repackaged for this release
<klattimer> pretty sure it's a packaging bug, and I know the code changes work, so I think this makes it not my bug?
 * vish grumbles at klattimer for replacing his icon ;p
<vish> j/k
<klattimer> vish?
<klattimer> which icon did I replace?
<vish> klattimer: the ibus icon :)
<klattimer> oh you drew the default one?
<seb128> hey klattimer
<vish> yeah..
<klattimer> that's no worry, as the default one still shows between input method windows
<seb128> not sure what the issue is, I would like to let people who know ibus to try to understand it
<klattimer> it swaps to and from the selected input method / default when a space to type is selected in a supporting window
<klattimer> I'm assuming there's been a major change in make/make install since 1.2
<seb128> why?
<klattimer> well because one of the packages is no longer built
<klattimer> maybe that's just a packager change though
<seb128> klattimer, the debian ibus guys subscribed to the bug should know about that
<seb128> but how does the non indicator version display icons then?
<klattimer> well in the same way that we do in the indicator now
<klattimer> thing is, it doesn't appear to be working post upgrade, languages don't seem to be available or not working
<klattimer> when I tested with latex it worked fine
<klattimer> but some users using packs from a ppa don't see the icons, and I can't do korean anymore in my test
<klattimer> so the changes to the code *should* do the right thing, but somewhere between the package update it's lost some supporting stuff
<seb128> klattimer, right, seems rather an ibus issue than an indicator one
<seb128> you cna just wait for people knowing ibus to comment
<seb128> seems rather a bug in the ibus packaging or ibus than one in the change
<Cimi> iainfarrell: where's otto? :)
<iainfarrell> hey Cimi
<iainfarrell> he's here
<iainfarrell> but maybe not signed in
<iainfarrell> I'll go see him, 2 secs
<Cimi> I'll be back in few minutes
<vish> iainfarrell: hey, we are now at 81..! :)
<iainfarrell> hello vish
<iainfarrell> That's fantastic!
<iainfarrell> a blog post? :)
<vish> iainfarrell: hmm , not yet, but dint wanna make you feel used ;p
<iainfarrell> heh vish
<iainfarrell> that's fine
<iainfarrell> if you want to write one, feels like a milestone
<iainfarrell> let me know
<iainfarrell> happy to push the button
<vish> iainfarrell: sure :)
<klattimer> seb128: is there anyone around that knows ibus's codebase?
<seb128> no
<klattimer> I can't tell if the bug that's left after recent updates is mine or someone elses, I'm assuming it's mine
<klattimer> :/
<klattimer> I'll keep digging see what I come up with
<kklimonda> where is the discussion with GTK+ developers about utouch patches?
<kklimonda> or hasn't there been one yet again? :/
#ayatana 2010-08-17
<ethana2> I installed the app-menu and applet, but it doesn't work with Kmines
<ethana2> i have the qt thing for it installed..  the Kmines menu is removed from its window but doesn't show up in the panel
<kenvandine> davidbarth, can you look at that indicator-me merge request today? for the libgwibber port
<davidbarth> kenvandine: yup, but need to finish some administrative stuff first
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> davidbarth, thx
<davidbarth> kenvandine: the branch works fine here so far
<kenvandine> davidbarth, good :)
<davidbarth> kenvandine: i have a strange behavior with the text entry though, it's only displaying 1 char at a time as i type
<davidbarth> kenvandine: can you reproduce that on your system? i haven't seen any update that could create that issue in my apt-get update this morning
<kenvandine> humm
 * kenvandine tries
<kenvandine> davidbarth, nope... can't reproduce that here
<kenvandine> davidbarth, maybe a dbusmenu problem? slowness on the bus?
<kenvandine> can't be related to my branch though
<davidbarth> kenvandine: yeah, i don't think that's due to the changes
<kenvandine> although, with the new theme the text is very light in that input box
<davidbarth> kenvandine: so more of an ido/gtk regression
<davidbarth> indeed
<dutchie> There are currently no bugs filed against popey.
<dutchie> whoops
<davidbarth> kenvandine: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/indicator-me/libgwibber-port/+merge/32775 a few things to see, nothing big
<davidbarth> kenvandine: some of them are discutable, you can ping me here
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> so your saying we should check for configured accounts once, and display the text entry
<kenvandine> and then if the service goes away leave the text entry?
<kenvandine> it would start the service again, sure... i was just keeping the behavior the same as before
<kenvandine> davidbarth, ^^
<davidbarth> kenvandine: right, i think that's the principle of least surprise, "why did the entry disappear suddenly" vs "oh i don't have configured accounts, that's why it's not there"
<kenvandine> sure, that actually simplifies the code quite a bit
<kenvandine> we only need to the signal so we we know when to display the entry
<kenvandine> and then we can just forget it
<jcastro> hi klattimer
<jcastro> klattimer: I am back!
<jcastro> klattimer: I see ibus has been giving you a hard time, heh
<klattimer> hard time isn't the word
<klattimer> :/
<klattimer> since the 1.3.7 update it's been kicking my ass
<jcastro> klattimer: hey just to follow up, did the notify-osd fixes you did get reviewed and merged? I haven't seen them do a release or an upload into maverick
<klattimer> I haven't done anything to notify OSD yet
<klattimer> g-s-d's indicator took priority and then ibus reared up again
<klattimer> the things i have done wrt notify osd is clear up some of the bug backlog
<jcastro> ok
<kenvandine> davidbarth, ok I think I addressed all your comments
<davidbarth> kenvandine: super, let me see
<kenvandine> davidbarth, thx
<davidbarth> kenvandine: sweet, approved!
<kenvandine> davidbarth, great, thx
<davidbarth> kenvandine: i'll roll a release around thursday
<kenvandine> great
#ayatana 2010-08-18
<Cimi> davidbarth: I would move the deadline for the RGBA style property support in murrine after 27th august
<Cimi> before the 27th, I hope cody will send me patches for the widget ordering
<Cimi> and the resize gripper
<davidbarth> Cimi: hi
<davidbarth> Cimi: the argb style prop s not critical, but what's blocking to choose the name (as it seems the rest of the code is here already)?
<davidbarth> Cimi: widget ordering, how critical is that for the theme? cody was not really keen on changing that at this point in the release
<Cimi> davidbarth: it is not critical
<Cimi> it's just better :)
<Cimi> with that change, the theme will definitely look better
<klattimer> davidbarth: do you know of any possible dbusmenu bugs which might cause strange race conditions?
<davidbarth> klattimer: hi
<klattimer> hey
<davidbarth> what kind of side-effect are you getting?
<klattimer> well, if the ibus icon is passed through libindicator into the notification area it works, if it's in the indicator-applet it doesn't
<klattimer> throwing a dbus error which looks like a race condition
<davidbarth> passed thru lib as opposed to the indicator? i don't follow you
<klattimer> well, if you don't have the indicator applet on the panel
<klattimer> it puts an icon in the status area instead
<davidbarth> ah ok
<davidbarth> and? (re-reading)
<klattimer> so the only difference being the existence in the indicator applet or the notification area, one works, one doesn't
<davidbarth> so libindicator is not properly propagating the icon
<davidbarth> the old systray works, not the new indicator one, right?
<klattimer> let me explain again
<klattimer> starting a patched ibus-daemon without an indicator applet in the panel, puts an icon in the systray (albeit incorrect, but that's a bug in the way icon picking works)
<davidbarth> ok
<davidbarth> normal fallback mode for libindicator
<klattimer> starting ibus-daemon with an indicator applet, will cause the indicator to throw a dbus error on selecting the input method engine
<davidbarth> k
<klattimer> you can see the bug report here; https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/564034
<ubot5> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list.index(x): x not in list (https://launchpad.net/bugs/564034)
<klattimer> comment #38 has the dbus message in it
<davidbarth> checkng
<klattimer> when I tested this on friday things were working
<klattimer> so an update between then and now has caused the problem
<davidbarth> klattimer: and i guess that breaks around line 201 in __set_im_icon
<klattimer> nope
<klattimer> around 520 in __im_menu_item_activated_cb
<davidbarth> ah really?
<klattimer> the set_im_icon stuff works perfectly
<klattimer> yep... when calling focus_ic.set_engine(engine)
<davidbarth> i don't see the connection between the engine and anything gtk that could trigger a signal and force libindicator to push a change across the bus
<klattimer> davidbarth: neither do I
<klattimer> so, I'm currently thinking that it's some kind of dbusmenu slowness or another race condition
<davidbarth> hmm, there seems to be a reference to engine.icon and engine.longname somewhere in this panel.py module
<davidbarth> right, set_im_icon(engine.icon)
<davidbarth> so even if it's not pushed immediately, it's the link
<davidbarth> the callback somehow triggers a signal that sends an update across dbus
<davidbarth> but why does it break, no ideas so far
<klattimer> but why would it generate an error in dbus saying there's no engine
<klattimer> it makes no sense
<klattimer> and also, why would it work fine in the systray but not in the indicator-applet
<davidbarth> the log of changes is here: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-application/trunk
<davidbarth> because of a change in API
<davidbarth> the change broke the ABI
<davidbarth> if you have elements that are not packaged you're relying on, you'd better make distclean and re-autogen.sh
<klattimer> right I'll give that a go
<davidbarth> that's the most probable reason to me so far
<davidbarth> klattimer: btw, do you have everything you need for the rest of the keyb patches? like icons?
<klattimer> davidbarth: the existing icons are being used atm
<klattimer> I've found that I need to produce a very long list of icons
<klattimer> if we're going to theme them
<klattimer> a good start would be the m17n icon list I already sent you
<davidbarth> right
<davidbarth> but design has it too, need to check when they can get back to you
<klattimer> k
<klattimer> I'm starting to think that ibus is going to miss the release of maverick
<klattimer> the code is unpredictable a lot of the time :/
<davidbarth> also, i wanted to mention a new change request for g-p-m, to update some strings and logic for displaying the time remaining for a battery
<davidbarth> that's "Change the battery strings that are too long in the menu: TODO" in https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-m-indicator-power
<davidbarth> and the strings definitions are at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BatteryStatusMenu#Items
<klattimer> k
<klattimer> is there a bug report?
<davidbarth> klattimer: i'm looking for it, but the gpm bug list is, errr, impressive
<davidbarth> mpt: ping? i'm almost sure you had a bug to change the menu strings to something more compact for the power indicator (referring to the "strech limo" of status strings or something)
<klattimer> oh great... I've somehow managed to lose my filesystem entirely :/
<klattimer> thankfully it's a vm
<davidbarth> klattimer: kernel issue?
<klattimer> no the disk strangely went into read only mode, so I rebooted the vm
<klattimer> and now apparently there is no /sbin/init
<klattimer> :/
<klattimer> whole FS is gone
<klattimer> :/
<mpt> davidbarth, I don't remember there being a bug report about it.
<davidbarth> mpt: ok, i'll open one for that then; at least getting that string properly fixed before it's too late
<davidbarth> mpt taking https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BatteryStatusMenu#Items as the reference
<davidbarth> Cimi: i've pinged ronoc, asking him to join this channel
<davidbarth> Cimi: part of the sound menu widgets do come from the IDO lib (lp:ido), like the scrub bar
<Cimi> I would like to add small rounded corners for the cover art
<Cimi> and maybe
<Cimi> fixing the "player"
<ronoc> Cimi: hi
<ronoc> i hear you are interested in working onthe sound menu
<Cimi> yeah
<Cimi> I found some bugs
<ronoc> Cimi, yes it is a work in progress,  todays release should fix some of those
<ronoc> which bugs in particular
<Cimi> for example
<Cimi> I guess below the playe
<Cimi> r
<Cimi> there's a squared area
<Cimi> filled with the menu bg color
<davidbarth> klattimer: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/619816
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 619816 in gnome-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Battery status line too long (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Medium,New]
<klattimer> davidbarth: yeah I saw that come in
<ronoc> cimi: fixed in this release 0.4.0
<Cimi> ronoc: that does not work with the new menus we have in maverick
<Cimi> ok
<Cimi> maybe I should just need to wait
<davidbarth> klattimer: watch out, there are string changes, but i guess there is also some of the algorithm to check to see if the time intervals (<12h, >, calculating) can match the different strings
<davidbarth> klattimer: they make sense from a user point of view, but that may not be the code/HW reality; i haven't checked yet
<klattimer> k
<ronoc> Cimi: I think it would be best since I have not released in 3 weeks because i was waiting for mpris2 to stabilize, most UI quirks have been resolved. Nice to haves can come next once all functional stuff is resolved. The next week or two will be working on integration bugs with the clients who are at present moving over to mpris2
<Cimi> great
<Cimi> will wait then
<davidbarth> Cimi: so i think you should work from the indicator-sound source branch today if you want to adapt the theme
<davidbarth> Cimi: or wait for tomorrow's release
<Cimi> wait tomorrow :)
<davidbarth> Cimi: if you're into indicators, the datetime one would need some love to get the calendar styled better i think
<davidbarth> Cimi: ie probably removing the surrounding frame to integrate it seamlessly into the rest of the menu
<davidbarth> Cimi: i think only the month/year header should be decorated, whereas the rest should not
<davidbarth> Cimi: but you may want to double check that with chaotic first
<davidbarth> Cimi: or compare with his latest mockups
<chaotic> davidbarth: I'll upload the latest mockup for Cimi
<Cimi> yeah
<davidbarth> chaotic: cool thanks; you're on all fronts ;)
<chaotic> davidbarth: ;)
<chaotic> Cimi: done
<Cimi> maybe just removing the bigger fram
<Cimi> e
<Cimi> the header is useful, because it is clickable
<Cimi> but maybe it can be fixed
<MDC1> is it possible to create a ppa directly from a launchpad bzr now?
<Cimi> chaotic: did you see the latest work I've done for the sound indicator? :)
<Cimi> look at the slider
<Cimi> ;)
<Cimi> also, I improved the rendering of disabled states for slider (mainly) and a touch at buttons too
<chaotic> Cimi: yes, it's looking much better - is that slider big enought o grab ;)
<Cimi> davidbarth: the code for the calendar widget is in ido?
<Cimi> chaotic: on my netbook I can grab it
<Cimi> chaotic: the lower slider is small
<chaotic> Cimi: it is
<Cimi> but you should speak with ronoc
<chaotic> Cimi: it's a scrubber - so I wonder if it should look a little different - I had intended that one to be round
<davidbarth> Cimi: it is, yes; idocalendar or something
<Cimi> yeah improved btw
<Cimi> ok fixed the calendar for both themes
<klattimer> tedg: it seems my absolute filename patch to libindicator isn't released into the repos yet, can you tell me when I can expect it?
<tedg> klattimer, Hmm, I believe that it is...
<klattimer> tedg: I'm upto date on the latest libindicator and testing the ibus patch once again
<klattimer> and all I'm getting is the missing-image
<tedg> klattimer, Oh, no.  So what happened is that cause another bug, which they then distro patched it to break things.
<klattimer> tedg: in ibus?
<klattimer> I saw there was a distro patch in ibus which reversed some of my changes and broke others
<tedg> klattimer, No, in libindicator -- basically there was an error case that hit a g_error now and shutdown unity :)
<klattimer> oh
<klattimer> that's not great
<tedg> Turns out people don't like it when their window manager shuts down :)
<klattimer> no, I can imagine it sticks in their craw a little
<tedg> So I have a patch for that, we should release it.
<klattimer> cool, if you can do that, then I want to push my ibus packages to a ppa
<klattimer> so I can get them tested quickly
<tedg> kenvandine, Can we update the distro patch to be my branch?
<tedg> kenvandine, Do you have time for some libindicator packaging?
<kenvandine> tedg, sure
<tedg> kenvandine, Do you want a release, or just update the distro patch?
<kenvandine> a patch is fine
<kenvandine> or... a release if it means no release tomorrow :)
<kenvandine> could kill two birds
<kenvandine> if there is no more changes due
<tedg> I can't imagine anymore...
<tedg> So let's just make a release.
<kenvandine> great
<klattimer> kenvandine: I need to sign a package but it's assuming someone elses email address
<klattimer> what do I need to change in order to make it work with my key?
<kenvandine> set DEBEMAIL env variable
<kenvandine> before doing the dch
<kenvandine> to get it right in the changelog, which is what it looks for when signing
<kenvandine> or
<klattimer> dch?
<kenvandine> debsign -k<key>
<kenvandine> dch creates a new version, in debian/changelog
<klattimer> oh ok
<kenvandine> debsign -k<key> blah.sources
 * klattimer does that stuff manually for some reason 
<kenvandine> to sign the package for upload, if it wasn't signed when created
<kenvandine> use dch -i :)
<klattimer> k
<klattimer> I will in future
<kenvandine> dch -i creates a new version
<kenvandine> dch
<kenvandine> edits
<Cimi> iainfarrell: I've found a bug in your blog :-P
<iainfarrell> hey cimi
<iainfarrell> thanks :)
<Cimi> ehehe
<iainfarrell> in design or hungfu?
<Cimi> look at the "team page"
<Cimi> :D
<Cimi> Thirteen heads are
<Cimi> better than one.
<Cimi> but there are fourteen heads there :P
<iainfarrell> heh!
<Cimi> unless your head does not count! ahah
#ayatana 2010-08-19
<davidbarth> hey MacSlow, could you help Cimi prepare some compiz settings update? he'd like to adjust a few variables and is the looking for the best way to submit a patch for that
<oubiwann> Cimi: you around?
<MacSlow> davidbarth, ok
<MacSlow> Cimi, ping me whenever you need
<iainfarrell> oubiwann: He's chatting to Otto right now
<iainfarrell> Otto's away from tomorrow until Tuesday
<oubiwann> iainfarrell: ah, cool -- thanks!
<ronoc> Cimi: ping
<Cimi> ronoc: yeah I'm here
<Cimi> I heard you ;)
<ronoc> good stuff
<Cimi> restarting so
<Cimi> one sec
<ronoc> Cimi: okay
<Cimi> ronoc: ok here
<ronoc> Cimi: so I hear you were talking about storing all the necessary colours of things in the theme
<ronoc> Cimi: I have setup the code to be aware of theme changes, I was just waiting for someone to take care of the themes :)
<ronoc> Cimi: we just need to be clear in which fields you store which colours.
<ronoc> #
<ronoc> whoops
<ronoc> will we start with the transport bar
<ronoc> (play button)
<Cimi> sorry had a disconnection
<Cimi> so
<ronoc> no worries
<Cimi> I never said I would like to store colors
<ronoc> hmm
<Cimi> I said two things
<ronoc> okay
<Cimi> 1) for the scrubber please set a custom widget name for example ide-scrubber
<Cimi> *ido-scrubber
<ronoc> sure I can do that
<Cimi> 2) for the player buttons
<Cimi> we can have two solutions
<Cimi> 1) you can draw just the border and fill with alpha (gradient from black to grey with alpha)
<Cimi> that will work for dark menus and white menus as weel
<Cimi> another idea is using gtk colors
<Cimi> for example bg[GTK_STATE_NORMAL] and bg[GTK_STATE_PRELIGHT]
<Cimi> but then, you could set up a different widget name
<Cimi> so in the gtkrc we can just do
<ronoc> sure thats easy
<Cimi> widget_class "*ido-playerbutton" style "ido-playerbutton"
<Cimi> style "ido-playerbutton" {}
<Cimi> sorry { bg[NORMAL] = @bg_color ... whatever }
<ronoc> yep my thoughts exactly, this is what I meant by you storing the colour
<Cimi> so we can use shades or which color we want just playing with the gtkrc
<ronoc> sounds good
<Cimi> you don't need to store any color
<Cimi> just use gtk colors
<Cimi> and set a custom widget name
<ronoc> sure which ever I get the colour from the style object passed to me from gtk and do not have hard coded colours in my C file ?
<Cimi> once you have colors from gtk
<Cimi> you have to do color operations to have nice gradients
<ronoc> Cimi, can we work on this maybe late tmrw or Monday. I basically need to finish up some stuff for seb for the freeze that was last week
<Cimi> tomorrow, not monday
<ronoc> Cimi, any other day next week ?
<ronoc> I could maybe do tmrw ?
<ronoc> But I would prefer to get a release ready for seb
<ronoc> at the moment
<ronoc> Cimi ?
<Cimi> yeah
<Cimi> maybe on tuesday
<Cimi> but starting from the next week I will me much more busy
<Cimi> and davidbarth wants me even on other tasks so my brain is about to explode xD
<Cimi> BAM
 * Cimi imploses
<ronoc> Cimi: I can imagine you are popular man !
<Cimi> anyway it shouldn't be that complicated
<ronoc> let me ping you in the morning, and hopefully we can crack something together tomorrow.
<Cimi> if you point me to the file where the rendering code is
<Cimi> I can write a patch
<Cimi> ok cool
<ronoc> okay cool, for the play button
<ronoc> its in play-button.c
<ronoc> that covers the full transport bar
<ronoc> in the src dir of lp:indicator-sound
<davidbarth> Cimi: ;)
<davidbarth> btw
<davidbarth> klattimer: hi ;)
<Cimi> looks like mirco made his appearance here ;)
<ronoc> indeed :)
<Cimi> his coding style eheh
<davidbarth> klattimer: the ibus patch is ready now it seems
<davidbarth> klattimer: i've re-pushed the icon set request yesterday
<davidbarth> klattimer: did you get a chance to look at the g-p-m bug yet?
<klattimer> davidbarth: can you test the packages from my ppa before you say that
<klattimer> I've had some quirks pop up
<klattimer> I'm currently looking at fixing the g-s-d bugs again
<davidbarth> klattimer: ah, ok, testing
<klattimer> as it seems the initial fix didn't fix properly
<klattimer> I've got an almost perfect patch working now
<klattimer> shouldn't be too long
<klattimer> hopefully before 5
<davidbarth> klattimer: ibus-setup breaks here
<davidbarth> klattimer: but i did a crude manual install
<klattimer> k
<klattimer> try from ppa:karl-qdh/ppa
<klattimer> that should work
<davidbarth> klattimer: doing that
<davidbarth> need to restart my session
<davidbarth> klattimer: which ibus-* package do i need to get some more input methods registered; ibus-setup crashes (now that i have a proper ppa instlal) because its enginedesc table seems empty
<klattimer> davidbarth: you'll need at least ibus-table and pinyin or other engines are a good idea to add
<davidbarth> klattimer: sorry, i totally broke my install here with an upgrade -f
<davidbarth> klattimer: can't confirm the fix is working
<davidbarth> kenvandine: can you test klattimer ibus package from is ppa before the package goes into maverick?
<davidbarth> kenvandine: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/564034/comments/41
<ubot5> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list.index(x): x not in list (https://launchpad.net/bugs/564034)
<kenvandine> davidbarth, sure
<davidbarth> thans
<davidbarth> thanks
<lucidfox> I wonder, can libappindicator be used as easily with Qt as with GTK?
<kenvandine> klattimer, so how do i test ibus?
<kenvandine> i have it installed, plus some engines and stuff
<kenvandine> ibus-setup worked, changed keyboard input to ibus
<kenvandine> but i can't tell that changing it in the indicator actually does anything
 * kenvandine knows nothing about input stuff, so it might be working and i have no idea :)
<lucidfox> What would the Powers That Be say about this possible usability improvement for the new keyboard indicator? bug #620571
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 620571 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "[Maverick] Move keyboard layouts out of the submenu (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620571
<jcastro> lucidfox: it would be helpful to get some feedback from the design people on that bug
<jcastro> perhaps mpt or so
<jcastro> and if it's all good we can ask klattimer to bust it out!
<jcastro> klattimer: http://lucidfox.org/posts/view/607
<jcastro> that's starting to look quite awesome now
<lamalex> pretty confusing that the menu opens on the opposite side of the arrow
<lamalex> there's a gtk papercut
<AlanBell> hi all
<AlanBell> we have a user in #ubuntu-accessibility who wants to remove the suspend and hibernate options from the shutdown menus
<AlanBell> can someone help me understand how the menu options in the indicator applet are controlled please
#ayatana 2010-08-20
<lucidfox> Is it possible to tell programmatically if the appindicator menu is open?
<lucidfox> I have a program using a tray icon that updates its menu every time it is opened, and polls for its items every X seconds, so porting it to the indicator API causes flicker when the menu is open
<lucidfox> I also wonder what is the Right Way(tm) for a third-party application to distribute separate indicator icons for dark and light themes
<lucidfox> monochrome ones, that is
<lucidfox> And... are there any plans to patch gnome-shell for indicator support?
<lucidfox> What would be the best way to indicate on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationAreaTransition/CompatibilityFixes that an application is fixed?
<lucidfox> For example, I ported liferea, epiphany-browser, guake and linuxdcpp, so they should no longer be on that list
<klattimer> kenvandine: davidbarth: could one of you re-assign this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-ubuntu/+bug/599844 to the canonical desktop team?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 599844 in Ayatana Ubuntu "Port the keyboard indicator in gsd to use the app. indicator protocol (affected: 1, heat: 12)" [Medium,In progress]
<klattimer> I've updated the patch, no more memory leaks and all the other issues brought up have been addressed
<davidbarth> klattimer: hi, ok checking that now
<klattimer> closed a bunch of gsd bugs
<klattimer> and it's much nicer to use now
<klattimer> feels a bit sharper :)
<seb128> klattimer, hey, thanks for the g-s-d fixes, please don't set the bug fix released though
<davidbarth> klattimer: you want to reassign to get confirmation of the fixes and then have it landed?
<davidbarth> seb128: it's not
<seb128> klattimer, use fix commited rather, they will be closed when the package with the update is uploaded
<davidbarth> seb128: it's still 'in progress'
<davidbarth> right
<seb128> [Bug 620571] Re: [Maverick] Move keyboard layouts out of the submenu
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 620571 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "[Maverick] Move keyboard layouts out of the submenu (affected: 1, heat: 8)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620571
<seb128> ** Changed in: gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu)
<seb128>        Status: Confirmed => Fix Released
<seb128>  
<seb128> I just got that by email
<davidbarth> ah
<klattimer> seb128: sorry, I thought that the best way of pushing the bugs upto the main bug
<davidbarth> seb128: so does that help to have dx-team reassigned, or can we just check the packages and you take the proposed ones into maverick on monday?
<seb128> klattimer, no worry
<seb128> davidbarth, dx-team reassigned?
<seb128> davidbarth, klattimer: I just uploaded the g-s-d update
<seb128> klattimer, just set the bugs you fix to fix commited so I know which ones to list in the changelog for the upload
<seb128> klattimer, do you have other changes that need upload?
<seb128> davidbarth, mpt, klattimer: btw can we drop the keyboard icon?
<davidbarth> drop? wdym?
<seb128> ie bug #620331
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 620331 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "please drop icon from keyboard indicator (affected: 1, heat: 10)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620331
<mpt> seb128, no, not without changing the API.
<mpt> And it would only be a temporary change until the icon generation is implemented.
<seb128> hum ok, it has very weird spacing compared to other indicators and the icon waste space
<seb128> temporary like for this cycle in the stable version having something nice to use
<klattimer> seb128: we'd have to do something in libappindicators and libindicator I think, which might break abi
<klattimer> it's possible to do it without breaking abi I suppose but that could be messy
<klattimer> e.g. passing a NULL icon to indicator_new
<klattimer> seb128: no other changes to upload no
<seb128> klattimer, mpt: ok thanks, don't bother then, could you add a comment in this bug saying that?
<davidbarth> seb128, mpt: i guess pitti asks more for a way to hide it even if you do have multiple layouts configured
<seb128> klattimer, ok, what do you work on next?
<davidbarth> seb128, mpt: which would be consistent with your (mpt's) design
<seb128> davidbarth, no, pitti just say the icon is useless and use space
<klattimer> seb128: jorge said apport
<seb128> klattimer, no ibus fixing?
<klattimer> i don't think so
<mpt> seb128, sure
<davidbarth> by implementing the option to hide the indicator, the space is saved, and that's part of mpt's design
<seb128> that's still broken in maverick
<klattimer> is it?
<klattimer> hmm
<seb128> you updated your ppa
<seb128> but you didn't send any updated patch for us to upload
<klattimer> i tested in my vm and the package in the ppa was working
<seb128> that's why I'm asking
<klattimer> i'll test again
<seb128> well you didn't ask any sponsoring
<seb128> is your update patch to upload?
<seb128> updated
<seb128> or was that just a testing ppa to debug?
<klattimer> there's no updated patch
<klattimer> just an updated build and removing the distro patch
<seb128> well you have a ppa version working according to comment
<klattimer> yeah, that's a rebuilt package
<klattimer> same patch as already in the bug report
<seb128> which is the same as in maverick?
<klattimer> oh hang on
<klattimer> there is something
<seb128> davidbarth, the point is that the icon is useless
<klattimer> I'm testing it now, nearly forgot about this
<klattimer> there's still a problem with the activated signal not being sent from menu items
<seb128> davidbarth, it eats space compared to what we had an other systems have, ie just the label
<klattimer> in python
<klattimer> need tedg to look into that testing my ibus package which shows the problem
<davidbarth> seb128: right, so that's why i say, we should push a little further and add mpt's checkboxes to be able to hide the icon
<seb128> davidbarth, but seems it's not trivial so let's not bother for this cycle
<seb128> having the spacing fixed would be nice though
<davidbarth> seb128: a gconf key and a dialog update
<seb128> it's a bit weird right now
<seb128> davidbarth, ok, that would be ok I guess
<davidbarth> spacing
<davidbarth> ?
<seb128> klattimer, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/53938769/ibus_1.3.7-1ubuntu2_1.3.7-1ubuntu3.diff.gz is weird
<davidbarth> for the ibus one?
<seb128> davidbarth, did you try the layout indicator?
<klattimer> weird?
<davidbarth> or the gsd one?
<klattimer> what's weird about it?
<davidbarth> i'm testing it right now (ibus is fubared on my system)
<seb128> klattimer, did you drop the indicator support of was there some cruft in the maverick version?
<klattimer> there was cruft in the maverick version
<seb128> klattimer, I'm trying to understand what you did in your ppa and what we should do in maverick to it
<seb128> oh ok
<klattimer> a patch which removed part of my patch
<seb128> so we need to clean that?
<klattimer> yeah
<seb128> ok, that's what I was asking before
<seb128> thanks
<klattimer> if you look I removed debian-changed-1.3.7-1ubuntu2
<seb128> davidbarth, gsd one
<seb128> klattimer, right, ok, makes sense now
<seb128> klattimer, thanks
<seb128> davidbarth, there is no left margin
<seb128> davidbarth, but there is quite some space between the label and the right border
<davidbarth> seb128: there is for me, i have the network icon on the left
<davidbarth> the connman one that is
<klattimer> seb128: in GSD?
<davidbarth> hmm right
<klattimer> It's hard to get the guide size right on that
<klattimer> I used XXX1
<seb128> davidbarth, click on it and watch the rectangle
<davidbarth> on the right you mean, the right padding is too wide
<davidbarth> yeah, because of the guide
<seb128> the spacing next to the label and icon are not identical
<klattimer> as different layouts will be different widths, and changing width doesn't appear to be the right thing to do
<seb128> davidbarth, yes
<seb128> ok, I've to run for some errands, will be back in an hour
<davidbarth> ok
<mpt> seb128, done
<davidbarth> to be nitpicking, the guide could be calculated according to the declared layouts, so that if none are 4 char wide, the padding could be adjusted
<klattimer> davidbarth: that's true
<klattimer> do you want me to do that and produce a new patch?
<klattimer> davidbarth: the other thing with it, would be that it's centrally aligned within the allocated space
<klattimer> if we're going to have an icon we should align to the left against the edge of the icon + spacing
<ronoc> Cimi: ping
<davidbarth> klattimer: align to the left? sorry, re-reading
<davidbarth> klattimer: the label you mean, but then that's something to patch in indicator-application
<klattimer> yeah that's right
<klattimer> I'm just saying
<klattimer> I can patch the guide size now if you like?
<davidbarth> klattimer: that'd be cool, yes
<davidbarth> klattimer: if you think that's a safe change
<davidbarth> klattimer: ie, if there aren't parts to update all across the module
<davidbarth> klattimer: i'm looking at the dialog thing, to see if mpt's checkbox could be also an easy win
<klattimer> k
<Cimi> ronoc: pong
<klattimer> cool
<davidbarth> klattimer: can't find where the ui for the layout preferences tab is located
<klattimer> :/
<ronoc> Cimi: any joy with the colours etc. ?
<davidbarth> klattimer: do you know where that is?
<Cimi> not yet
<klattimer> nope
<klattimer> not yet
<klattimer> :)
<klattimer> will find out in a sec
<davidbarth> ok, i'll keep digging, don't worry
<ronoc> Cimi: okay let me know if you need anything
<davidbarth> klattimer: seems to be in gsd-keyboard-xkb.c
<klattimer> ?
<klattimer> the layout preferences?
<klattimer> nooo, surely not
<davidbarth> klattimer: ah, where then?
<klattimer> I've been through that file all day and haven't seen it
<klattimer> not sure
<klattimer> gimme a sec
<klattimer> it calls popup_menu_launch_capplet from gsd-keyboard-xkb.c
<davidbarth> ah a capplet of course
<klattimer> so there's a capplet for it called gnome-keyboard-properties
<davidbarth> yeah, hmm
<klattimer> davidbarth: your patch is on the bug report now
<klattimer> using the shortest guide width
<davidbarth> klattimer: wow! impressive! ;)
<klattimer> not really :)
<klattimer> right onto the preference item
<klattimer> davidbarth: the file gsd-keyboard-plugin is the capplet
<klattimer> hmm noooo
<klattimer> :/
<klattimer> ok, this is getting a bit quirky
<davidbarth> klattimer: ah ok, so it's only for "extended" layouts, cool, the changes looks ok
<davidbarth> klattimer: it's in gnome-control-center
<klattimer> ah bugger
<davidbarth> and the ui is in the capplets-data package
<davidbarth> gnome-keyboard-properties-dialog.ui
<klattimer> yeah looking at it now
<klattimer> well, a few things need to be done, add the necessary XML, add the handler for it which writes to gconf and then have that gconf change detected in the applet and the hide to be done
<klattimer> ... is there not a way to hide applets from showing in libindicator?
<klattimer> I'd assume not
<davidbarth> klattimer: hmm, it's going to be a fun one, with a schema definition to share between the capplet and the gsd plugin
<klattimer> lovely
<klattimer> :/
<davidbarth> klattimer: hmm, a new way with the approver mechanism, but that's even more complex, because that would mean fiddling with bamf, for something it's not meant to be
<davidbarth> klattimer: can you get the gconf key first, because if time runs out, at least that provides an option for "people who know" (like pitti)
<klattimer> i'll have a look at what can be done
<davidbarth> mpt: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/620331/comments/7
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 620331 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "please drop icon from keyboard indicator (affected: 1, heat: 10)" [Low,New]
<mpt> davidbarth, neat
<davidbarth> klattimer: awesome, thanks; assigning the task to you then; i know you loooove that indicator ;)
<klattimer> mpt: I've updated ibus to include a radio menu item, but the string "Turn off input method" should probably be changed to "Input Method Off" as it's a member of the radio group
<klattimer> when is string freeze?
<mpt> klattimer, excellent choice. String freeze is Thursday 26th.
<klattimer> urgh :/
<klattimer> I've got a bunch of string fixes to do before then
<klattimer> :(
<klattimer> ok, well I'll change the string
<klattimer> what's the procedure when I've changed the code?
<klattimer> should I just leave it for translators to just get to work?
<mpt> I don't know, sorry.
<klattimer> k
<klattimer> well seb128 do you know ^^
<mpt> David Planella (dpm) might also know.
<seb128> klattimer, you can change the strings they will show up in launchpad to translate
<klattimer> oh, don't need to change any other files?
<klattimer> that's pretty cool ;)
<klattimer> the problem is, there's something wrong somewhere in the python bindings for the indicators
<klattimer> the radio group doesn't even change on click
<klattimer> there's definitely something wrong here :/
 * mpt wonders why nothing appears in the panel when he turns on IBus
<klattimer> anyway, I'll update the patch
<seb128> kamstrup, open a bug and assign to ted
<klattimer> mpt do you have the ibus from my ppa
<klattimer> the current one in maverick is broken
<seb128> the fixed one will be uploaded today
<klattimer> seb128: did you mean me?
<klattimer> seb128: I'm cooking a new patch for ibus with the menu item changes mpt wanted
<klattimer> will add it to the bug report
<seb128> klattimer, yes
<seb128> kamstrup, sorry that was for klattimer
<seb128> klattimer, if you have issues due to the indicator stack please open bugs
<seb128> so they can be assigned to ted
<klattimer> k will do
<mpt> klattimer, no, I'll try your PPA
<mpt> I see "System" > "Preferences" now contains (1) "Input Method Switcher" (2) "Keyboard" (3) "Keyboard Input Methods" (4) "Keyboard Shortcuts"
<mpt> One day we'll fix that, but for now it's a mighty depressing example of uncoordination in open source
<klattimer> seb128: can you assign https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/621075 to tedg
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 621075 in ibus (Ubuntu) "Python app indicator fails to send "activate" signals (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<klattimer> mpt: I know, I hate that too :/
<klattimer> what's the right thing to do however, is mighty difficult
<c10ud> sorry guys disturbing your work but.. mpt when will we have an ubuntu-control-center that handles all this kind of stuff? yea, like mac
<klattimer> merging of gnome-settings-daemon->keyboard with ibus in some way
<seb128> klattimer, done and reassigned to one of the components he works on so he can't ignore it
<mpt> c10ud, http://live.gnome.org/Design/SystemSettings/
<klattimer> awesome :)
<c10ud> no maverick i guess
<mpt> certainly not
<mpt> UI freeze is six days away
<c10ud> heh, btw looking at all those visual improvements you've been doing lately, a 1080 dropdown menu for preferences is certainly a punch in your eye :p
<mpt> c10ud, yes, especially when bug 578768 makes it near-impossible for me to choose the later items. :-)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 578768 in light-themes (Ubuntu) ""Main Menu" submenus scroll badly with Ambiance/Radiance theme (affected: 4, heat: 24)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/578768
<c10ud> aww
<mpt> "To be removed: xserver-xorg-video-i740" -- I hope that isn't anything important
<klattimer> mpt: doubtful unless you've got a graphics card made by intel a decade ago?
<mpt> Mine's Intel but 2007~2008 vintage
<klattimer> it'll be fine :)
<klattimer> mpt: btw https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/578768 should be marked as a duplicate of https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/548652
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 578768 in light-themes (Ubuntu) ""Main Menu" submenus scroll badly with Ambiance/Radiance theme (affected: 4, heat: 24)" [Undecided,New]
<Cimi> ronoc: the code is there
<Cimi> we just need to decide which colors we might use
<ronoc> Cimi, sure for now I have the colours hardcoded in the play-button.c, can you use these for ambiance?
<ronoc> Cimi: which branch is it ?
<Cimi> ronoc: I mean
<Cimi> I am actually getting the colors fromgtk
<Cimi> apply a shade
<Cimi> and draw with them
<Cimi> now the question is:
<ronoc> okay
<Cimi> which colors we might use? I suggest bg[NORMAL] for the background, and fg[NORMAL] for the symbols on top
<ronoc> sounds good
<Cimi> does it support prelight etc etc?
<ronoc> not yet, never spec'd but at some point we might need it
<ronoc> lets refactor what is there to start with and then add stuff as we need it
<Cimi> which is the design to implement?
<Cimi> chaotic:
<mpt> klattimer, with the keyboard menu from your PPA, it now shows the correct title ("USA2" instead of "USA" as it did before), but the menu has zero items.
<meebey> kenvandine: reading about libgwibber, is it possible or will it be possible to retrieve statuses?
<meebey> kenvandine: I would very like to see that for some sexy integration into smuxi
<Cimi> ronoc: bzr branch lp:~cimi/indicator-sound/use-gtk-colors
<ronoc> thanks Cimi, will take a look after lunch
<meebey> kenvandine: with retrieve I mean to fetch the status per API not UI
<ronoc> Cimi, did I hear you wanted to do rounded corners on the album art ?
<ronoc> :)
<kenvandine> meebey, not yet, but that is planned
<kenvandine> the goal is to provide everything gwibber knows about through libgwibber
<kenvandine> and then the gwibber client will use it
<kenvandine> and hopefully lots of other apps
<kenvandine> meebey, i would love some specific use cases you are after though, it will help in implementation
<meebey> kenvandine: I have an issue to solve and havent decided yet
<meebey> kenvandine: rewrite of the twitter engine in smuxi using twitterizer 2.0 (which has oauth support)
<meebey> kenvandine: or use libgwibber if it can do the job :)
<kenvandine> what is twitterizer going to do about the api key issue with oauth?
<meebey> kenvandine: I have one use-case issue though, I would need pure libgwibber support... a headless linux server with smuxi server has no X server etc
<klattimer> seb128: can you reassign this bug to canonical desktop team, the patch I have is working nicely; https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application/+bug/558841
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 558841 in indicator-application (Ubuntu Lucid) "bluetooth "devices" menu item not working in bluetooth indicator (affected: 20, heat: 121)" [Low,Triaged]
<meebey> kenvandine: the client app needs to provide the key
<kenvandine> right... but the key can't be in the source
<seb128> klattimer, ok
<meebey> kenvandine: it has to be in the source for opensource software
<meebey> kenvandine: there is no issue ^^
<seb128> klattimer, btw the g-s-d one still has issues
<klattimer> seb128: like what?
<kenvandine> meebey, but twitter won't allow that
<meebey> kenvandine: everyone can use the key of course
<meebey> kenvandine: what?
<kenvandine> meebey, we are going though right now with gwibber...
<kenvandine> it is a huge issue
<seb128> klattimer, the menu selection is wrong sometime, it shows a layout selected which doesn't match the label
<meebey> kenvandine: thats the standard practice to my knowledge
<seb128> klattimer, the label is right though
<klattimer> seb128: not with the updated patch it shouldn't
<seb128> klattimer, but it does with the patch from today
<kenvandine> meebey, they told us they will shutdown the key if they find it in any published source
<klattimer> or is there a specific circumstance that "sometimes" is
<klattimer> I mean, if you change it by keyboard shortcut does it go out of sync?
<kenvandine> meebey, i am working with them right now
<seb128> klattimer, yes, I've  3 layout, I select one, do both alt together
<seb128> the label is correctly updated
<seb128> but the list selection is not
<klattimer> but the list selection isn't made
<klattimer> ah... I get ya
<kenvandine> meebey, it might be good enough to obfuscate it by requiring the distro packager to include the key in the packaging and install it in a separate location on the filesystem
<klattimer> I know why that'll happen, but it's a tough one to fix
<klattimer> lemme tinker with it
<seb128> klattimer, thanks
<kenvandine> meebey, they are thinking about that... we have gone back and forth a lot now... getting me stressed!
<kenvandine> i need to get it resolved and SRU'd for lucid before the end of the month when they shutdown basic auth
<meebey> kenvandine: yes I am also in stress because of the basic auth shutdown
<meebey> kenvandine: to be honest, if they dont allow the key to be used in the source code, I might consider to simply drop twitter support
<kenvandine> meebey, that is what ryan wants to do in gwibber... but twitter is just to popular, and ubuntu users are going to want it.
<meebey> kenvandine: I kind of doubt the packaging obfuscation will help, each distro needs to obtain their own key then?
<kenvandine> meebey, yeah... the solution they are giving to open source developers is to drive each user to dev.twitter.com to register their own application and enter their own key
<meebey> kenvandine: well, if enough apps drop twitter support they might change their stupid EULA
<kenvandine> the packaging obfuscation is about as good as stuffing it into a binary that can just be disassembled
<meebey> kenvandine: if the key would be passed at build time...
<kenvandine> either way it just can't be as secure as they want it
<meebey> kenvandine: only the packagers would need to
<meebey> kenvandine: that could be an acceptable workaround
<meebey> still lame, but acceptable
<kenvandine> not build time, the current though is to stuff it into a file, maybe several files on the filesystem
<kenvandine> and we reassemble the files to get the key at runtime
<meebey> kenvandine: I would do build time
<kenvandine> so at least people have to do a little digging to figure out how to put it together
<meebey> kenvandine: use with an automake maro
<meebey> --with-twitter=$apikey
<kenvandine> yeah... but gwibber is python so it would end up in plain text somewhere
<meebey> oh!
<meebey> :)
<meebey> I dont have that particular issue with C#
<meebey> but ic, a buildtime var is not helping, it ends up as plaintext on disk
<meebey> disc, hehe
<kenvandine> yeah :)
<kenvandine> so build time could help, if we built it into some sort of binary
<kenvandine> as long as they are OK with it being included in the packaging as plain text
<meebey> kenvandine: actually....
<meebey> kenvandine: libgwibber is C, why not that?
<kenvandine> they definately are opposed to it being committed to the source repository
<kenvandine> well libgwibber depends on gwibber-service
<meebey> kenvandine: and at runtime gwibber reads (if needed) the api key from libgwibber
<kenvandine> i don't want a circular depends
<kenvandine> we could make gwibber build it into a tiny C module
<meebey> yeah or that
<meebey> something that is easy accessible from pyhton
<kenvandine> they are discussing the idea of having the key in packaging but not in the source now
<lucidfox> I don't understand why so many upstreams act downright hostile about libappindicator
<lucidfox> "Until it appears in GNOME mainstream, no way we're supporting that"
<kenvandine> lucidfox, yeah... i don't get it either
<meebey> how backwards
<meebey> good that there are also awesome upstreams like smuxi
 * meebey hides
<lucidfox> ^_^
<meebey> GNOME is not providing any solution to the tray mess
<kenvandine> awesome upstreams!
<meebey> so why would I expect them to solve it?
<meebey> they didnt for the past 10 years
<meebey> ...
 * meebey tries to get smuxi 0.8 ready in time for maverick with all the ayatana sexyness
<kenvandine> woot
<meebey> and twitter is the showstopper on that roadmap :/
<meebey> maybe its time for a status.net replacement ^^ does it allow a brdige to twitter?
<kenvandine> i think just posting
<kenvandine> i haven't looked into it much
 * meebey never used identica...
<kenvandine> i want things like twitter lists and stuff
<meebey> right, for full twitter support there is no way around it
<lucidfox> Oh great, not bloody Twitter *here* too
<meebey> but smuxi has no full blown twitter support yet, so...
<meebey> haha
<meebey> lucidfox went once crazy on #debian-cli because of using the word twitter
<meebey> ...
<kenvandine> hehe
<tedg> mpt, Should we be puttin gin an override for the placement of the gsd keyboard layout switcher?
<mpt> tedg, because it's not yet a system one?
<tedg> mpt, Correct, so it gets place by category/id.
<tedg> mpt, On my system that puts it all the way to the left.
<mpt> tedg, it would make sense to override both the gsd one and the ibus one to put them at the trailing end
<mpt> well spotted
<tedg> mpt, Hmm, I would have guessed the opposite?  Why the trailing, it seems like the should be next to power?
<mpt> tedg, yes, next to the other system ones
<tedg> mpt, Ah, cool.  I thought you meant the other side ;)  Any preference on the order of gsd, ibus, gpm ?
<mpt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#def-trailing :-)
<mpt> tedg, no preference
<mpt> just as long as gpm isn't separating the other two.
<tedg> mpt, Hmm, I would have said trailing is "closest to white space" as the one in the corner is anchored and everyone else is following.
<mpt> It's Java GUI lingo, apparently
<Cimi> ronoc:
<ronoc> Cimi
<Cimi> ronoc: did ypu play with the branch?
<ronoc> so I want get a chance today to get around to those branches. I have to finish something I'm working on here. But you mentioned earlier that you were interested in doing the rounded corners on the album art
<ronoc> Cimi: do you want to branch and do that also, that is if you have nothing else on your plate ?
<ronoc> davidbarth ^
<Cimi> ronoc: the design is not definitive
<Cimi> bug if you had chance to have a look at the code
<Cimi> at the very beginning of the file I placed a lot of shade defines
<Cimi> so you can easily adjust the colors
<ronoc> hmm are you sure, I spoke with Otto yesterday and he seems to think the rounded corners were in.
<ronoc> Cimi ^
<Cimi> yeah but I want ottos' feedback
<Cimi> anyway
<ronoc> Cimi on which the rounded corners or the work you did this morning ?
<Cimi> there are few things missing: 1) the background of the drawing area is filled with bg[NORMAL] and that looks ugly with the gradient of the menu
<Cimi> ronoc: the work I did)
<ronoc> okay
<ronoc> well i would think it would be best to park that branch until Otto is back Tuesday
<Cimi> another thing is could you please name the scrubber?
<Cimi> for example ido-scrubber
<ronoc> then we can go throw this on Tuesday with him.
<ronoc> Cody is back next week also
<davidbarth> ronoc, Cimi: don't forget the player item icon will have to move to the left column eventually; don't know if that impacts what you're adjusting at the moment
<ronoc> Cimi: have you anything else to work on right now ?
<Cimi> for the moment no
<Cimi> I mean in the sound menu
<ronoc> davidbarth: not right now
<Cimi> the implementation is correct
<ronoc> sorry not what I'm working on right now
<ronoc> will talk to ted about this in mo
<ronoc> davidbarth: I'm working on the blank graphic/the place holder for when there is no album art
<ronoc> currently
<ronoc> Cimi: well do you want to branch again from trunk and do the rounded rectangle work. doesn't seem like it would take too long ?
<davidbarth> ronoc: ok nice
<Cimi> which is the rounded rectangle work?
<Cimi> for the cover?
<ronoc> Cimi: the rounded corners on the album art, yep
<ronoc> sorry rounded squares :)
<Cimi> ok
<ronoc> thx
<Cimi> where's the code?
<ronoc> in the metadata-widget.c
<ronoc> art-url property update
<Cimi> thx
<ronoc> static void
<ronoc> metadata_widget_update_album_art(MetadataWidget* self){
<ronoc> Cimi ^
<ronoc> that does the pixbuf and scaling
<Cimi> ok
<danyR> hi ayatana. anyone knows where can I get some indicator-network suppport?
<davidbarth> danyR: hi
<davidbarth> danyR: i'll call kvalo on this channel
<davidbarth> danyR: what's the issue?
<danyR> davidbarth: hi. indicator-network stopped working on my system. the indicator-network-agent is running fine
<danyR> but everytime I call the indicator-network-service, I get a "(process:1721): libindicator-WARNING **: Name request failed.  Status returned: 3"
<danyR> error
<davidbarth> danyR: is indicator-network-service running already?
<danyR> davidbarth: yeah. even if I kill it, it restarts itself
<davidbarth> danyR: which is normal, the indicator restarts the service automatically
<davidbarth> what's wrong with the instance that is runnign?
<bcurtiswx> hey all, does the fact that rhythmbox still launches the icon on the top when using Applications-->sound and video  need a bug report, (since the sound menu will replace it) or not?
<danyR> davidbarth: sorry, indicator-network started working suddenly. I don't really know what happened, it was unresponsive before
<danyR> didn't answer to mouse clicks & actions
<danyR> it started working, so I had to kill NM
<danyR> however I've still an issue, it isn't updating icons/displaying connecting annimations
<davidbarth> danyR: indicator-network works with connman
<danyR> davidbarth: I know, I've a little knowledge on its insights :)
<davidbarth> danyR: if you have both connman + i-network and NM running, you're up for some not so fun bugs with your connection
<davidbarth> danyR: no offense, it's just that NM should /never/ run at the same time as connman
<danyR> connman is running now. but I'm pretty sure it wasn't NM causing my problem. it's working, so I've just one last problem: no icon change/connecting animation
<danyR> it seems it's crashed
<danyR> unresponsive
<danyR> but it's working
<danyR> ok, it's working now. displays icons/animations.
<danyR> I don't really know what happened, but it's funny that when I came here asking support, it started working.
<danyR> I gues indicator-network was afraid of official support :P
<danyR> kvalo: hi. what's the state of the "application start in offline mode" bug?
<Cimi> davidbarth: I'm the only one who finds ugly the etched shadow around the user avatar in indicator-me?
<davidbarth> Cimi: it is ugly, but it is gone altogether in the latest version; ivanka did some user testing and the avatar was creating confusion it seems
<davidbarth> Cimi: i've kept the code around, just in case
<davidbarth> Cimi: the test entry style is not great however with the current theme: it's not highlighted to reflect that it has the focus
<davidbarth> and the text color doesn't work well with the rest of the background and menu
<Cimi> davidbarth: Idon't have the text entry here
<davidbarth> you need a configured account on gwibber for it to show up
<Cimi> i havw it
<Cimi> strange
<Cimi> I can't test it if I don't have the entry
<danyR> Cimi: I think I don't have a text entry either, in Maverick. with gwibber accounts configured
<danyR> I confirm, it doesn't show yp
<danyR> up*
<lucidfox> I wonder
<lucidfox> how is the notification area transition problem going to be solved for Wine?
<lucidfox> Windows applications can't exactly be patched
<kklimonda> it wont and people will learn at last that wine is not a solution
<kklimonda> <wine rant />
<kklimonda> ;)
<kklimonda> lucidfox: but frankly I don't see why should we do anything about it - I've always seen wine as a compatibility layer that eases the switch from windows to linux. sacrificing linux experience so people can use their windows applications indefinitely just seems wrong to me.
<kklimonda> and with that explanation I have to go for a while, don't flame me too much ;)
<lucidfox> Well, I only use Wine for games, so
<lucidfox> *coughsteamcough* *coughblizzardupdatercough*
<gambs> I agree with kklimonda, if anything, that should be Wine's problem.
<jcastro> we discussed it at UDS
<jcastro> iirc the solution was "if you care enough to try to get windows programs to run on linux then adding the old tray on your panel will be easy"
<kklimonda> lucidfox: and thanks to wine developers have actually one less reason to port their games to linux. but that's getting offtopic, jcastro's explanation is good :)
<jcastro> I'm sure a person running a windows program with a totally different UI, different file chooser, etc. will not care about their tray
<lucidfox> Ah, so it will only be removed by default, but the applet will be available to add onto the panel?
<lucidfox> then yes, problem solved, Wine users will just use that
<jcastro> right
<gambs> I thought the Unity panel couldn't be messed with?
<lucidfox> Well, if you use Windows programs, chances are you won't be running unity
<lucidfox> May I suggest, however, that when it's removed by default, it's renamed to something like "Legacy notification area" and has Wine mentioned in its description
<lucidfox> That reminds me, is gnome-shell going to be patched for indicator support?
<gambs> Better question is whether Gnome-shell is going into natty <.<
<lucidfox> Well
<lucidfox> My personal opinion, and I'm not anyone official, is that gnome-shell is stillborn
<lucidfox> It's subjectively bad both speed-wise and usability-wise - at least the latter is going to get mitigated with them redesigning it into basically Unity Desktop Edition
<lucidfox> and too tightly coupled (Unity has that problem too, by design)
<gambs> I know, I'm not actually asking because I know no one "official" would answer typically.
<jcastro> nothing is really official about natty until UDS
<gambs> Not complaining.
<jcastro> lucidfox: how's the keyboard indicator working for you now after the update today?
<lucidfox> jcastro> Almost flawlessly - the text by the icon is updated when I press Alt-Shift
<lucidfox> but
<lucidfox> when I open the menu itself, the layout radio button marks the wrong layout, not the one actually selected
<jcastro> can you file a bug?
<lucidfox> sure
<jcastro> klattimer: ^
<lucidfox> filed, bug #621247
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 621247 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "[Maverick] Indicator menu has wrong keyboard layout selected (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/621247
<Cimi> ronoc: I've tried using the code from gnome-scrensaver lock
<Cimi> but
<ronoc> yep
<Cimi> gtk_widget_get_window (GTK_IMAGE(image) return NULL
<Cimi> no window :(
<ronoc> hmm one sec
<ronoc> i think you will need to get the window from the expose signal
<ronoc> i'm working on a branch right now that does that
<ronoc> so lets pick this up Monday
<ronoc> could you email the branch with the work you did this morning and the branch you are working on now -> conor.curran@canon....
<ronoc> Cimi ^
<Cimi> ok
<Cimi> the actual branch crash :)
<ronoc> not to worry, breaking things is always the first step :)
<Cimi> lp:~cimi/indicator-sound/rounded-albumart
<lucidfox> How is sound indicator support for Banshee coming along?
<lucidfox> Is it going to be uploaded to Maverick?
<jcastro> lucidfox: it's upstream, hyperair has been on holiday, which is why it's not in maverick
<vish> is anyone aware that bug #607410  occurs even in the latest daily?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 607410 in unity-place-applications (Ubuntu) "unity-applications-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in zeitgeist_log_find_events_finish() (affected: 2, heat: 18)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/607410
<jcastro> klattimer: put lp #587272 in your low-hanging-fruit nice-to-have-but-not-a-requirement pile pls.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 587272 in gajim (Ubuntu) "gajim doesn't have indicator support (affected: 3, heat: 18)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/587272
<sense> vish: Do you think we should pass bug #606149 to the Design Team?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 606149 in metacity (Ubuntu) "window borders don't have anti aliasing (affected: 4, heat: 131)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606149
<GreySim> I hope someone does *something* about that. I really loved the window borders in Neil Patel's Gwibber mockups: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Xie1ydrCav4/TEHqsC8MxbI/AAAAAAAABDg/dEBLMZbX43I/s1600/compact-multi-column.png
<klattimer> jcastro: I've got the previous bug you mentioned on my radar
<klattimer> the off-by-one error in gsd
<klattimer> not sure where it comes from though
<klattimer> I'll add this to my list of bugs
<klattimer> :)
<klattimer> oh it's all ready there
<jcastro> heh
<lamalex> kenvandine: is new gwibber in a ppa yet?
<kenvandine> no... but it is in maverick :)
<lamalex> if only I could install maverick!
<kenvandine> it will hit fta'a nightlies tonight
#ayatana 2010-08-21
<JanCBorchardt> any Appmenu-GTK developers in here? There is a problem with a panel applet disappearing because of it, please see: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cardapio/+bug/603795
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 603795 in Cardapio "Cardapio don't show on panel when new "Appmenu" Applet is activated (affected: 1, heat: 10)" [High,Confirmed]
<JanCBorchardt> trying again: any Appmenu-GTK developers in here? There is a problem with a panel applet disappearing because of it, please see: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cardapio/+bug/603795
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 603795 in Cardapio "Cardapio don't show on panel when new "Appmenu" Applet is activated (affected: 1, heat: 10)" [High,Confirmed]
<jcastro> JanCBorchardt: you're looking for bratsche and/or tedg, but they usually don't work on weekends.
<JanCBorchardt> jcastro, thanks. I hope my mail to ayatana-dev worked. ;)
<jcastro> I don't think it did
<jcastro> I don't see it
<JanCBorchardt> ah jeez, not this again. Why doesnât Launchpad send out error messages when it receives mail from an address not on the list?
<JanCBorchardt> luckily I only sent 4 mails this month
<vish> sense: that bug you mentioned yday, its not trivial.. its a well know metacity problem , it doesnt do rounded corners, so we set the corners pixel by pixel.. hence it is not perfectly rounded
<vish> known*
<troy_s> vish: It's a matter that the windows don't composite against the BG.
#ayatana 2010-08-22
<tvst> Hi, I'm the developer of Cardapio (https://launchpad.net/cardapio) and I was wondering if someone could answer some questions about the Appmenu applet
<tvst> Mainly, this is the problem that I'm encountering: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cardapio/+bug/603795/comments/6
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 603795 in Cardapio "Cardapio don't show on panel when new "Appmenu" Applet is activated (affected: 1, heat: 10)" [High,Confirmed]
<Omega> tvst: This channel isn't very active, but someone capable of answering should see it.
<tvst> omega: do you know what is the best way to get someone's attention on this? I'm sure the solution to this problem is known by the ayatana developers, as the default Ubuntu menu isn't affected by it...
<Omega> I'd say here, and maybe try their mailing list (I don't know about their policies about that though)
<gambs> You might like to try when it's not... 2 AM for most Canonical employees ;)
<tvst> Point taken :)
<tvst> I will try again tomorrow at a more european-friendly hour
<tvst> (or south-african)
<jcastro> hi dashua
<jcastro> long time. :)
<Omega> Hey guys.
<dashua> Hey jcastro, how ya been?
<jcastro> hi Omega
<dashua> Killer ink, contemplating my next piece :)
<Omega> The cardapio dev came in and asked a few things earlier.
<sense> good morning
<bilalakhtar> sense: Good morning to you too!
<sense> hi bilalakhtar
<bilalakhtar> hi sense
<bilalakhtar> Is it true that the Ubuntu Font Beta was opened for everyone?
<bilalakhtar> sabdfl just mailed on the list, but I still don't believe that it wasn't opened, since I saw the comments on thw ebupd8 page
<vish> bilalakhtar: just because someone published on webupd8 doesnt mean it is open ;)
<bilalakhtar> vish: But so many people on the page have commented that they like the font and they are using it!
<vish> bilalakhtar: open teams were accidentally allowed ...
<bilalakhtar> vish: Including Ubuntu Women
<bilalakhtar> vish: And Accessibility
<bilalakhtar> vish: And Kubuntu Users (originally)
<bilalakhtar> So bad! I just became an Ubuntu Member and this had to happen!
 * vish noticed that and did point out in UW team , but i dint really think it would be an error..
<vish> bilalakhtar: also , the artwork team is open ;p
<bilalakhtar> How did such a big 'accidental' change take place!
<vish> bilalakhtar: because no one is as perfect as you... :)
 * bilalakhtar would like to say that no human being is perfect
<tvst> Hey all. I am the developer for an app called Cardapio, and I was wondering if someone here could help me debug an AppMenu issue.
<tvst> In a nutshell, this is the problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cardapio/+bug/603795/comments/6
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 603795 in Cardapio "Cardapio don't show on panel when new "Appmenu" Applet is activated (affected: 1, heat: 10)" [High,Confirmed]
<jcastro> tvst: you're looking for either tedg or bratsche, but they're usually not around on weekends
<jcastro> however someone from cardapio did post on the mailing list
<bratsche> Yeah, I can help you with that.
<bratsche> tvst ^
<tvst> Yes, that was Jan-Christoph. But from the looks of it, that mailing list doesn't seem to be the right one for that, as it seems to be used mainly for announcements. Sorry if we posted in the wrong place.
<tvst> bratsche, great!
<Omega> I'm sorry too for suggesting the mailing list.
<bratsche> tvst: So, the issue is that appmenu-gtk does some kind of janky things with menubars and you probably don't want to export your menubars to the appmenu.
<tvst> so, for starters, do you understand the problem? in one line: "cardapio doesn't show when appmenu is present"
<jcastro> the list is the right place, it's just people usually don't ask
<Omega> Ah.
<Omega> I revoke my apology in that case!
<tvst> haha
<bratsche> Give me a sec to get you a proper answer.
<tvst> sure!
<bratsche> tvst: Try running your app(let) with UBUNTU_MENUPROXY="" set in the environment.
<tvst> ok, just a sec.
<bratsche> And if that works, then setenv() that in the beginning of your main() or something.
<bratsche> Hey jcastro, how's it going dude?
<tvst> it seems i have to install appmenu on this computer. this will take a minute or two.
<bratsche> Are you using Meerkat or Lucid?
<tvst> lucid
<jcastro> bratsche: pretty good, you?
<bratsche> You might need to install a PPA to get it on Lucid.
<jcastro> bratsche: spending some time doing stackexchange stuff
<tvst> but others were complaining about the same problem on meerkat
<tvst> oh, i know. i'm doing that right now.
<tvst> just to be sure: are these the correct instructions? https://bugs.launchpad.net/cardapio/+bug/603795/comments/3
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 603795 in Cardapio "Cardapio don't show on panel when new "Appmenu" Applet is activated (affected: 1, heat: 10)" [High,Confirmed]
<bratsche> Yeah, that should be fine.
<bratsche> tvst: When you show the appmenu, it attempts to hide the menubar in your app.  Of course, it's expecting your app to be a normal window-based one.  Perhaps I could add some code in there to ensure that the toplevel is a GtkWindow.
<bratsche> But either way, I'd recommend trying to run your applet with UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=""
<tvst> That would be a good idea. But for now the environment variable (if it works) is a good solution
<bratsche> jcastro: Nice.. I'm trying to do some crazy auto-fu hackery here.
<bratsche> jcastro: I got kind of sunburned last week.  It still fucking hurts. :/
<bratsche> Although it's getting better now.
<bratsche> jcastro: Oh oh oh.. and I got to see Phish live last Tuesday!  It was fucking awesome!  It was actually, by FAR, the best live show I've ever seen.  By anyone.  Ever. :)
<bratsche> They have the most impressive light show of any band ever.
<tvst> weird this seems to have stopped happening, even without the environment variable. i'll try logging off and then back on...
<tvst> brb
<tvst> lol i forgot to write down the environment variable before logging off, so can you repost it here please? :o)
<bratsche> UBUNTU_MENUPROXY
<tvst> should I set it to 1?
<tvst> or something?
<bratsche> That's fine.
<bratsche> Or just ""
<tvst> works!!
<tvst> great!
<tvst> I knew it would be simple :)
<tvst> Thanks bratsche
<bratsche> tvst: Nice!  So I'd recommend just doing unsetenv ("UBUNTU_MENUPROXY") in your main() function before you run the gtk mainloop.
<bratsche> Or maybe you can communicate that to whoever maintains this app.
<bratsche> if that's not you
<tvst> Ah, I see. Otherwise whenever Cardapio launches an app it will have a menu. Ok, I'll unset it.
<bratsche> Oh, it's all in Python.  I'm not sure what the Python equivalent of unsetenv() is.  Maybe it's still unsetenv().
<tvst> os.unsetenv :)
<tvst> but it doesn't seem to do what it's supposed to. wait a sec...
<tvst> hmm... os.unsetenv is totally not working. it simply doesn't unset the variable.
<tvst> looking for a solution online
<Omega> os.environ.clear()
<jcastro> bratsche: I got burned too when I went to san diego, I am peel city
<tvst> clear() is not a good idea, because the user may have something important there (and cardapio relies on other environment variables).
<jcastro> tvst: when you're sorted can you please update the bug with the solution, I'd like to be able to point other app developers there who might run into the same problem
<Omega> well pop()
<tvst> i'm using os.environ.pop('UBUNTU_MENUPROXY') and while this *does* remove the variable from the environment it *doesn't* produce the correct result.
<tvst> That is, AppMenu still shows the menu for apps launched by Cardapio even when there's no UBUNTU_MENUPROXY variable.
<bratsche> Try environ['UBUNTU_MENUPROXY'] = ''
<tvst> doesn't work either...
<tvst> strange.
<bratsche> When I run python in a terminal it works.
<bratsche> >>> import os
<bratsche> >>> os.environ['UBUNTU_MENUPROXY']
<bratsche> 'libappmenu.so'
<bratsche> >>> os.environ['UBUNTU_MENUPROXY'] = ''
<bratsche> >>> os.environ['UBUNTU_MENUPROXY']
<bratsche> ''
<bratsche> I don't really know Python though, so maybe this isn't doing what I think.
<tvst> What I mean is that by setting os.environ['UBUNTU_MENUPROXY'] = '' is how I got the initial bug sorted out in the first place. This is because you told me setting UBUNTU_MENYPROXY = '' was sufficient (and it is!)
<tvst> The problem is that now there's another bug (the first one is solved).
<bratsche> Oh okay.
<Omega> >>> os.environ['UBUNTU_MENUPROXY'] = 'test'
<Omega> >>> os.environ['UBUNTU_MENUPROXY']
<Omega> 'test'
<Omega> >>> os.environ.pop('UBUNTU_MENUPROXY')
<Omega> 'test'
<Omega> >>> os.environ['UBUNTU_MENUPROXY']
<Omega> Traceback (most recent call last):
<tvst> On this second bug, any app that is launched by Cardapio gets ignored by AppMenu.
<Omega>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
<Omega>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/UserDict.py", line 22, in __getitem__
<Omega>     raise KeyError(key)
<Omega> KeyError: 'UBUNTU_MENUPROXY'
<Omega> pop works fine here
<bratsche> jcastro: I'm not peeling.. just my feet and ankles are swollen and hurt like crazy.
<tvst> Again, the second bug is that any app that is launched by Cardapio gets ignored by AppMenu. This is because now the variable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY exists in the environment.
<tvst> The obvious solution is to remove it. With pop or whatever you want, but
<tvst> that doesn't work! Even if the variable is UNSET, any apps launched by Cardapio still get ignored by AppMenu.
<tvst> So I'm thinking that there's a problem with subprocess.popen(),
<tvst> which is what I use to launch apps.
<tvst> I'm debugging this right now and will get back to you in a couple of minutes.
<JanCBorchardt> tvst: hey Thiago :)
<tvst> hey!
<JanCBorchardt> tvst, let me know if I can help testing
<tvst> will do
<Omega> tvst: http://bugs.python.org/issue3227
<Omega> It says it's fixed in 2.6 though
<tvst> hmm. let me make a small shell script to test that.
<tvst> ARGH! It seems that bug is NOT fixed!!
<Omega> Hah.
<tvst> I made a shellscript with 'printenv > ~/test.txt' in it. Then launched it from Cardapio, and lo and behold, test.txt contains this line UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=libappmenu.so
<Omega> and did you try del os.environ['UBUNTU_MENUPROXY']?
<tvst> yes.
<Omega> did that work?
<tvst> Here's what happens:
<tvst> >>> os.environ['UBUNTU_MENUPROXY']=''
<tvst> >>> print os.environ
<tvst> {..., 'UBUNTU_MENUPROXY':'' , ...}
<tvst> >>> os.environ.pop('UBUNTU_MENUPROXY')
<tvst> >>> print os.environ
<tvst> {...} yay no UBUNTU_MENUPROXY!
<tvst> >>> subprocess.Popen('test.sh', shell = True, cwd = self.home_folder_path)
<tvst> test.sh is simply 'printenv > test.txt'
<tvst> look at test.txt and
<tvst> ...
<tvst> UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=libappmenu.so
<tvst> ...
<tvst> :(
<tvst> *wait a second*
<Omega> del os.environ['UBUNTU_MENUPROXY']
<Omega> do that
<tvst> The lines above DO work when used in a Python console!
<tvst> Just not in my script.
<tvst> The plot thickens.
<tvst> Omega: I'll try. But I think I know what's happening...
<tvst> del os.environ[ ... ] doesnt work.
<tvst> let me try something else.
<tvst> eh. no go.
<Xuzz> Wazzit?
<Xuzz> ...lets check the wiki!
<Xuzz> lol MeMenu
<tvst> Omega: ok, I got UBUNTU_MENUPROXY to be *truly* removed from the environment when running subprocess.popen, but launched apps *still* get ignored by AppMenu.
<tvst> So now this is looking like an AppMenu bug :-/
<Omega> tvst: How did you manage to do it?
<tvst> I just did the os.environ.pop RIGHT BEFORE calling subprocess.popen
<tvst> strange, huh?
<Omega> Does it work correctly with the shellscript?
<tvst> yes.
<tvst> the result of 'printenv > test.txt' is a file where there's no mention of UBUNTU_MENUPROXY anywhere.
<tvst> ('printenv > test.txt' is what's in the shell script)
<Omega> Try it with a test app that uses the appmenu next
<tvst> I did.
<tvst> thunar, for example.
<tvst> still shows the menubar :-/
<tvst> (I tried thunar because it is *never* running on my system, as opposed to nautilus)
<Omega> I mean with an app that does nothing more than use appmenu
<tvst> like what?
<Omega> just an example app
<tvst> i don't know what you mean.
<Omega> I'll see if I can find one
<tvst> by the way, i can also launch xterm from Cardapio, and when I run printenv inside of xterm I see the same thing as with the shell script: no mention of UBUNTU_MENUPROXY anywhere.
<tvst> (message me by name when you find it)
<tvst> Omega: any luck?
<tvst> Omega: GOT IT!!
<tvst> Right before running subprocess.Popen(...) all you have to do is set os.environ['UBUNTU_MENUPROXY'] = 'libappmenu.so'
<tvst> ALL SOLVED!
<tvst> I'll update the bug report when I confirm that it *really* is solved and that I'm not overlooking something stupid :)
<Omega> tvst: :D
<Omega> Also, I dced, so I pretty much misssed everything
<Omega> before < tvst> Omega: GOT IT!!
<tvst> So I assume AppMenu requires UBUNTU_MENUPROXY to be set to "libappmenu.so" ?
<tvst> (just trying to understand *why* this works)
<Omega> seems so
<tvst> heh
<Omega> How did you come across it?
<tvst> Just trying whatever I could think of :)
<tvst> but entirely blindly, since I had already seen that...
<tvst> 05:06:22 PM) tvst: UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=libappmenu.so
<tvst> Anyways, gotta run now.
<tvst> Thanks for pointing me in the right direction
<tvst> ttyl
<Omega> Cya
#ayatana 2011-08-15
<htorque> good morning, everyone! the dash's home screen is not supposed to show any other categories/items than the shortcut ones, right? i just had an applications section in there. wanted to take a screenshot, now it's gone.
<apw> are we aware that when you click the sound notifier, and then attempt to click the volume control, the menu dissapears.  when reopening the menu the volume is then slaved to the slider regardless of whether one is clocked
<apw> clicked
<diwic> ronoc ^^
<om26er> ephan, hey
<om26er> ephan, your branch seems to work fine now
<ephan> that's great om26er , thanks a lot
<ephan> Also sorry about asking you to test it for me :P
<ephan> Should I propose it to merge or is there anything I have to do before?
<om26er> ephan, hmm waiting for design ;)
<ephan> Ok thanks om26er, I'll wait and see
<ephan> Because I still don't know how the Design team colaborates with the coding team
<om26er> ephan, yw
<ephan> om26er, how does it work then?
<om26er> ephan, its works
<om26er> *it
<ephan> I'm talking about the way the Design Team collaborates with the Coding Team :S
<om26er> lol
<ephan> Or "it works" is an answer to it?
<om26er> not totally sure some unity dev would know better
<ephan> hm, thanks
<ephan> om26er, I got an answer
<ephan> "Won't fix"
<ephan> Well, too bad, but what can I do
<om26er> ephan,  :/ nothing I guess
<ephan> Yeah I know
<ephan> "the what can I do" is retoric :P
<ephan> And I always look on the bright side, at least I learnt how to make it
<om26er> :)
<madnick> Im sorry for asking this here, but I have been working on this for 2 hours, the unity greeter compiles fine using the ./configure .. make .. make install, however parts of it using valac does not work, "Does not exist in the context of X", I am passing all --pkg arguments that is used by the make system. Especially X.CreatePixmap seems to be the problem.
<jono> smspillaz, you rock, dude
<jono> thanks for the work on the bug
<smspillaz> jono: I don't know 100% if its fixed
<jono> smspillaz, when will the fix be uploaded to Oneiric?
<jono> smspillaz, have you seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/822929 btw?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 822929 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Significant screen tearing when using Thunderbird" [Undecided,New]
<smspillaz> I'm not much of an expert on screen tearing, sorry :/
<jono> smspillaz, can you confirm if this is a compiz bug?
<jono> I assume it is
<smspillaz> jono: guess it is
<smspillaz> jono: I've not seen it though
<smspillaz> will look into it later
<jono> smspillaz, thanks
<jono> if you could confirm it so it gets on the bug list, that would be useful
<jono> it really makes Thunderbird entirely unusable
<smspillaz> jono: my branch might fix that issue, who knows
<jono> cool
<smspillaz> the problem was quite deeply rooted
<jono> any idea when your branch will hit Oneitc?
<smspillaz> nope
<smspillaz> the release process is generally stalled by a lack of testing
<jono> what do you mean lack of testing?
<jono> testing the branch before it lands in 11.10?
<nhaines> If it hits a daily (or if I can update a daily, I suppose) I can test it on this Intel Corporation 82915G/GV/910GL Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 04)
<jono> smspillaz, ^
<jono> nhaines, you mean the TB issue?
<nhaines> jono: yup.
<jono> nhaines, sure, just load TB and try to reply all to a message
<jono> sometimes it doesn't happen, just try a bunch of times to see if it happens
<smspillaz> jono: its not likely to be intel specific
<jono> smspillaz, you think if anyone uses TB on compiz they should get that bug?
<smspillaz> jono: dunno, I didn't get it then myself
<apw> is it me or is now unity a task switcher and i cannot configure it
<jjohansen> apw: nope not just you
<jjohansen> that is what I am here to complain about atm
<apw> at least if its going to be the unconfigurable switcher it could at least turn off the one whcih was enabled before
<apw> not that i think its reasonable to be non-configureable
<jjohansen> it needs to be configurable, as its behavior is uhm to put it nicely not what I like at all
<jjohansen> the appswitcher is not great but a lot better
<jjohansen> oh and having two switchers enabled at the same time is going to lead to more bug reports.  Doing the update enabled the unity switcher and didn't disable the appswitcher
<jjohansen> good times :/
<jjohansen> also since the update my lens are missing
<jjohansen> updated this morning
<apw> jjohansen, how would i know if my lenses are there or not (ie. what are they)
<jjohansen> apw: they are the app lens, file lens, etc in the launcher or under the unity search
<jjohansen> press the windows key
<jjohansen> should show up as more apps or something
<jjohansen> they are missing from the launcher, that might be a design decision, as there is now an ubuntu icon in the launcher instead of at the top.  But they are also missing from the search
<jjohansen> hrmm and search isn't working
<jjohansen> oh no I've got it.  They are back if I delete.  It seems search is remembering a space at the start
<jjohansen> so it comes up completely empty but if I backspace I get the lenses
<njpatel> jjohansen, we know of the bug, will be fixed in this this week's reelase
<njpatel> release*
#ayatana 2011-08-16
<oSoMoN> good morning
<mardy> Kaleo: I'd like to get a new stacktrace for bug 743662, because the code now has changed considerably and is using C++ exceptions. Should I just do that in a comment, or ar there specific keywords to set?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 743662 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "unity-2d-spread crashed with SIGSEGV in WindowImageProvider::requestImage()" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/743662
<Kaleo> mardy: I don't know of any specific keywords for that
<mardy> Kaleo: because I'm afraid that the bug report tool will simply detect that the bug is a duplicate, and won't upload a new trace :-/
<Kaleo> mardy: good point
<Kaleo> jibel: do you know?
<jibel> mardy, there is no specific keyword. Just add a comment and ask for a new report.
<jibel> mardy, the retracers are offline ATM and IDK when they will be back, the bug won't be marked as dup anyway (and won't be retraced :( )
<Andy80> hi
<nerochiaro> mardy: MR updated, hopefully it's all good this time
<mardy> nerochiaro: I see that in some places you use "Type *variable" (which I personally prefer), while the rest of the Unity-2d code seems to use "Type* variable"
<nerochiaro> mardy: i'm pretty random in that usage, honestly
<nerochiaro> mardy: again, i think it's something that should either be left up to the coder, or enforced via CODING guidelines file
<mardy> Kaleo: do you mind ^? (I don't)
<nerochiaro> i don't have any preference
<nerochiaro> on that subject
<Kaleo> mardy: I believe Type* is clearer
<Kaleo> mardy: does the google c++ guidelines say something about taht?
<mardy> Kaleo: yes, both are accepted, provided that the usage is consistent within a project
<mardy> nerochiaro: I would keep the namespace
<nerochiaro> mardy: you mean add it back to all the plugins ?
<mardy> nerochiaro: but of course, either we put it in all applets, or we don't put it at all
<nerochiaro> mardy: what's the reason you prefer it ? nothing else uses it
<mardy> nerochiaro: if we don't have any requirements on ABI compatibility, we can keep it for later
<nerochiaro> mardy: you mean remove the namespace now, and perhaps add it back later if it's needed ?
<mardy> nerochiaro: if this plugin API is going to be public, better use it
<nerochiaro> mardy: ok, i'll add it back then
<nerochiaro> mardy: please say so in the MR so i don't forget
<mardy> nerochiaro: ok, great
<nerochiaro> mardy: from your MR comment it seems you want only the interface itself to be in the Unity2d namespace, which is good. but the change you saw in my previous commit was related to the plugins being outside of the namespace, which is independent from the interface being inside of it (unless i'm missing something)
<zniavre> good afternoon ayanta devs
<zniavre> how to clean all removed application from application dash please ?
<mardy> nerochiaro: ah, true
<mardy> nerochiaro: I just care about the interface and the PanelApplet class
<nerochiaro> mardy: good. i'll fix that only then
<bjf> after a dist upgrade on Sat. evening, when i log in i only get to nautilus, this is on oneiric, i just now did a dist-upgrade and i still have this problem
<bjf> i happen to be in the millbank office right now if anyone wants to take a look at it
<andyrock> good morning all
<nerochiaro> mardy: all changes you requested should be pushed to the branch now
<mardy> nerochiaro: cool, let me have one last look
<nerochiaro> mardy: thanks
<apw> i assume we are aware that the new alt-tab switcher looses its mind and selects the wrong window, often not the forground window of a set of windows
<jono> DBO njpatel howdy chaps, have you guys seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/824890 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 824890 in unity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Dash performance issues with 'Active Blur' enabled" [Critical,Confirmed]
<DBO> jono, I have some help on the way for that
<DBO> working out the remaining kinks
<DBO> but long story short
<DBO> yes
<nerochiaro> mardy: great that you approved the MR, but please put approved too on the "status" field at the top of the page, or it won't be merged by tarmac
<mardy> nerochiaro: ah, sorry, didn't know. I'll do that right away
<nerochiaro> mardy: np. it's a pretty nice system. ask Kaleo for more details, I think he set it up
<jono> DBO, cool
<jono> DBO, so there should be perf improvements?
<DBO> jono yes
<DBO> big ones
<jono> DBO rocking
<andyrock> I'm going to work with this bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/691776) but it's my "first time" with cairo animation...
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 691776 in unity (Ubuntu) "Fade effect when showing the menubar" [Medium,Confirmed]
<andyrock> could someone help me? :)
<jcastro> andyrock: Cimi is your man!
<andyrock> jcastro, ok thx
<Cimi> andyrock: that looks pretty trivial to do
<andyrock> Cimi, trivial for you... not for me :)
<Cimi> you could save the previous surface
<Cimi> and the newer one
<Cimi> and paint one with alpha = progress
<Cimi> the other 1 - progress
<Cimi> until it ends your timeout
<andyrock> Cimi, I thought something like this... but i'm asking
<Cimi> let's assume you have the previous pattern
<Cimi> with all the text etc etc
<Cimi> save it
<Cimi> then
<Cimi> get the new pattern
<Cimi> what you'll need now is to fade between them
<andyrock> Cimi, i've to fade both menu text and title text?
<Cimi> while the first one gots alpha reduced (so, from 1 to 0)
<Cimi> the other one increases
<Cimi> (0 to 1)
<andyrock> so for example, the menu fade out and the title fade in the same moment?
<Cimi> totally
<Cimi> I think that's the fade animation we want, isn't it?
<andyrock> i think so... but i've to create a base class to do this
<andyrock> maybe FaderWidget
<andyrock> since menu and title ara handled in differents ways in unity... you know
<andyrock> *are
<Cimi> I don't know :)
<Cimi> so, basically you just need to store the previous pattern
<andyrock> well title is a simple "cairo pango text", menu are indicators :)
<Cimi> and keep it in mem until animation ends
<Cimi> so
<Cimi> assuming you use gtk_render_layout for the title
<Cimi> cairo_save
<Cimi> cairo_push_group ()
<Cimi> gtk_render_layout
<Cimi> cairo_pattern_t *pat = cairo_pop_group ()
<Cimi> cairo_restore
<Cimi> now, pat contains the previous title
<Cimi> the fade should have
<Cimi> cairo_set_source (cr, pat)
<Cimi> cairo_paint_with_alpha (cr, 1 - progress);
<Cimi> // new text, set source...
<Cimi> cairo_paint_with_alpha (cr, progress)
<Cimi> assuming progress is double from 0.0f to 1.0f
<andyrock> i have to apply the fading to the single menuitem, or i can apply it to the entire menubar?
<andyrock> Cimi, thx btw
<Cimi> andyrock: what you want
<Cimi> andyrock: I suggest you to write a test app
<Cimi> should be difficult
<Cimi> *shouldn't
<c10ud> Cimi, can you do nicely-rounded window borders? kthxbi
<Cimi> c10ud: you mean those? :) https://plus.google.com/107658363031614745288/posts/267k79USyni
<c10ud> exactly, thanks for reading my mind
<c10ud> no gtk2 support i guess
<Cimi> c10ud: it's in the window deco
<Cimi> c10ud: does not depend on toolkit
<c10ud> does that mean you're going to backport it? :p
<Cimi> c10ud: to what?
<c10ud> lucid
<Cimi> oh no
<Cimi> that requires new compiz is in oneiric
<c10ud> backport moar (?)
<c10ud> i have some theme from your ppa, but it's gone now
<Cimi> don't have time for anything
<c10ud> we (as organization) fixed your file transfer bug, you owe us something!
<c10ud> (just kidding..maybe?)
<Cimi> :)
<jcastro> cdbs: hey you're working on the unity bug triage with om26er right?
<ephan> jcastro, why is Firefox a security update?
<jcastro> it's just the way it ended up
<jcastro> I guess if you think about it, it's a security update
<jcastro> that just happens to have a bunch of features along with it
<jcastro> plus "updates" are optional, security not so much.
<ephan> Well yes, new browser versions usually include better security features
<ephan> Yes I'm starting to get it, thanks
<Pretto> hey, i have a problem with lenses, when I click any shortcut from dash it only closes and don't launch
<Pretto> how can I see if it is logging errors like that to report a bug?
<ephan> Pretto, one way is to run unity in a terminal and see if there's any error output
<Pretto> ephan: i will try that
<Pretto> WARN  2011-08-16 17:06:02 unity.dash.view DashView.cpp:406 Unable to find Lens /com/canonical/unity/applicationsplace/applications
<Pretto> got that error
<ephan> I think that has been reported already, let me check
<ephan> bug 824842
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 824842 in unity (Ubuntu) "Click on 'More Apps' et al closes the dash" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/824842
<ephan> There it is Pretto, check that it has happened to you
<Pretto> ephan, it is the same I am having here
<ephan> Yes, as I said, press "This happens to me"
<ephan> Thus, it'll get more attention and we'll try to fix it faster
<Pretto> ephan: other problem I am having is that I can't navigato in the dash using direction keys
<Pretto> s/navigato/navigate/
<ephan> I see Pretto
<ephan> Right now I can't, so go to Launchpad and check if it has been reported
<ephan> I think something like that has been reported
<Pretto> ok, thak you ephan
<om26er> Pretto, that is also reported :)
<Pretto> om26er: do you have the url for it?
<om26er> bug 824966
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 824966 in unity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Unity 4.8 Dash is no longer keyboard accessible" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/824966
<ephan> â
<ephan> I knew I had read about it
<jjohansen> why does unity ignore ccsm when there are conflicts and you do resolve conflicts and tell it not to set the value?
<om26er> jjohansen, i would love to know that as well, but i am afraid those who could answer this are already asleep or offline (or on vacation) :)
<jjohansen> om26er: well then I will just have to pester them in 12 hours :)
<ephan> om26er, are you referring to TreviÃ±o?
<om26er> ephan, no, didrocks
<om26er> jjohansen, ;)
<cdbs> jcastro: ping
<cdbs> jcastro: No, not any more
<cdbs> Or I should say, not for now
<cdbs> focusing more on the papercuts project and unity contrubitions other than triage
#ayatana 2011-08-17
<andyrock> good morning
<RAOF> smspillaz: I've just had gtk-window-decorator go totally insane and eat all my memory via mesa - bug #827818.  Anything you want from me?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 827818 in unity (Ubuntu) "Runaway memory usage in gtk-window-decorator" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827818
<oSoMoN> good morning
<mardy> Kaleo: hi, practical question: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/757818 has been fixed in Bamf, should I mark it as fixed in unity-2d too? What is the correct procedure here?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 757818 in unity-2d "bamfdaemon crashed with SIGABRT in dbus_g_connection_register_g_object()" [Critical,New]
<Kaleo> mardy: you can mark it as committed in u2d as well, and then released when it is in bamf
<mardy> Kaleo: ok, thanks
<mardy> nerochiaro: hi, about bug 827673: in r672 the panel doesn't set a size policy on its widgets -- maybe that code just need to be removed from r673?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 827673 in unity-2d "[panel] indicators are shifted offscreen to the right" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827673
<nerochiaro> mardy: i think that the problem is that the appname widget was setting its own policy before, and now i'm setting it globally, but i noticed i use a different policy. i'm gonna try and use the old one
<mardy> nerochiaro: you are right, it was set to "Ignored". But then, unless we introduce a complex set of flags for the dconf schema, or we let the applets set their size policy (I vote for the latter, for the time being)
<mardy> s/unless/either/
<nerochiaro> mardy: what if if the expanding flag is set i just set the policy to Ignored instead of Expanding ? I mean, it would be exactly what was happening before, just moved to the panel manager
<nerochiaro> mardy: the logic is not wrong, the only mistake was to use Expanding instead of Ignored
<nerochiaro> mardy: i vote for just fixing that
<mardy> nerochiaro: wouldn't make much sense...
<nerochiaro> mardy: why not ? it was making sense before
<mardy> nerochiaro: a better option IMHO is if the "!" flag means: "the size policy is set by the applet"
<smspillaz> RAOF: gtk-window-decorator doesn't use mesa
<smspillaz> RAOF: there is a memory leak however, I've got a fix for that
<mardy> nerochiaro: actually no...
<nerochiaro> mardy: the ! flag right now is used by something completely different
<nerochiaro> mardy: i.e. leftmost only
<mardy> nerochiaro: sorry, got confused with the "expanding" key
<nerochiaro> mardy: but we can add a new flag that say "don't force a size policy on this applet" if you think it's better
<mardy> nerochiaro: I just vote for removing that dconf key, it's useless and confusing now
<mardy> nerochiaro: yes, "don't force a size policy on this applet" is better, but then why can you specify it for just one applet? It doesn't make much sense...
<nerochiaro> mardy: right. so what about a new flag like ! that you can put on as many applets as you like and for all those applets the policy won't be forced ?
<mardy> nerochiaro: that might be, but OTOH I don't see why we need it now
<mardy> nerochiaro: now we can simply let all applets specify their size
<mardy> nerochiaro: if we want to change it later, we can add the size information in the dconf file, and the panel will override the applet's size policy
<nerochiaro> mardy: ok, i'll do that then. the only reason why i wanted the size policy to be in dconf is for flexibility and not having to hack the unity-2d code when we need something like, for example, a different size policy on the appname applet (for whatever reason).
<nerochiaro> without having to hack the appname applet
<nerochiaro> but i'm ok not having that flexibility for now, it's not something OEM needs right now
<mardy> nerochiaro: yep. But then we'll probably need something more complex than just a choice between Ignore and Fixed (we might want Expanding, MinimumExpanding, etc)
<mardy> nerochiaro: so it's better to wait till we have some requirement, and then design a schema that could accomodate all
<nerochiaro> mardy: agreed. let's just remove it for now and let each applet set its own policy. in this case are you ok for having the base applet class set the default policy to MinimumExpanding and then other applet override it (for example appname will have Ignored)
<nerochiaro> ?
<nerochiaro> mardy: and i mean Fixed when i said MinimumExpanding :)
<mardy> nerochiaro: sure, seems reasonable
<mardy> nerochiaro: see, that that class is useful ;-)
<nerochiaro> mardy: it was like that before anyway ;) ok. i'm going to do that and then push an MR for you, if you're ok reviewing it
<mardy> nerochiaro: sure, great :-)
<mardy> Kaleo: you can now use my address @canonical.com, it will help me to keep the e-mails in the right folder :-)
<nerochiaro> mardy: https://code.launchpad.net/~uriboni/unity-2d/panel-size-policy-up-to-applets/+merge/71829
<mardy> nerochiaro: cool! :-) I approved and added one unrelated note; if you are still modifiying that file, you might want to add that check in, too
<nerochiaro> mardy: i'll have to submit another MR for that, but it can be done if you want to
<nerochiaro> mardy: i still have the file open ;)
<mardy> nerochiaro: if you don't mind, I think it could save us some trouble in the future, when 3rd parties will write their plugins :-)
<nerochiaro> mardy: however it's a bit useless i think, because if you call addWidget(0) Qt will not crash or do anything stupid, just not add any widget
<mardy> nerochiaro: ah, I didn't know
<mardy> nerochiaro: then let's forget about it
<nerochiaro> mardy: actually I have not tried, but seems reasonable they do check their pointers
<nerochiaro> ok
<mardy> nerochiaro: let me have a quick look, I've the qt sources somewhere here...
<nerochiaro> mardy: ok, i'm curious too now
<nerochiaro> mardy: but i have faith in your former colleagues
<mardy> nerochiaro: ah, actually that addWidget is a method of Unity2dPanel
<mardy> nerochiaro: ok, it goes back to Qt anyways...
<mardy> nerochiaro: oh, nope :-) *w is the widget being added, and they do w->parentWidget() before any checks :-)
<mardy> nerochiaro: so better check for it in unity-2d
<nerochiaro> mardy: ok, i'll add the check and the trolls lose a few points
<mardy> :-)
<nerochiaro> mardy: https://code.launchpad.net/~uriboni/unity-2d/panel-check-valid-applet/+merge/71834
<ephan> I have a question
<ephan> How can an applet be invalid?
<nerochiaro> ephan: if the plugin just return NULL for whatever reason
<ephan> Hm
<ephan> Thanks, I sort of understand
<mardy> ephan: it's not really something that we expect to happen, but if we don't do that check, the panel will crash and then enter a crash loop (because it's auto restarted)
<andyrock> jaytaoko, hi
<ephan> Anybody on Unity 4.8 can test something quick for me?
<davidcalle> ephan, I can help
<ephan> davidcalle, can you open the dash, enter some text, then do Ctrl+A and Ctrl+X (so select all, and then cut)
<ephan> On Natty (Unity 3.8) I get a weird symbol
<davidcalle> Ctrl+A works, but Ctrl+X (or +C  or +V) inserts a symbol
<ephan> Thanks davidcalle, I guess that's a bitesize bug
<davidcalle> I guess it is.
<ephan> reporting
<ephan> I'll also check the code and see if I can fix it
<davidcalle> ephan, thanks :)
<andyrock> ephan, about ctrl+something
<andyrock> is an already reported bug
<ephan> yes?
<ephan> Hm, when I reported it didn't warn me of anything, can you give me ID so I can mark it as duplicate?
<andyrock> ephan, Omer already reported it as a duplicate
<ephan> ah thanks
<RAOF> DBO: I hope you're fixing bug #825029 in the next release, because it's driving me *insane*
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 825029 in unity (Ubuntu) "When alt-tabbing to an application with multiple windows the focused window is not raised" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/825029
<om26er> smspillaz, Hi! around? Would it be fine if I close unitydialog related bugs for now?
<cdbs> njpatel: https://code.launchpad.net/~bilalakhtar/unity/software-center-integration-for-o/+merge/71905 Some parts are implemented, managed to workaround the tooltip trouble by adding a subroutine
<cdbs> njpatel: Thanks a lot for helping! No need to get down and merge that branch straight away, take your time, it can land up till UI freeze
<cdbs> which is 8 days away IIRC
<njpatel> cdbs, thanks, DBO some coolness
<njpatel> [up arrow]
<DBO> ?
<DBO> njpatel, ?
<njpatel> DBO, cdbss branch linked above
<DBO> OH
<DBO> excellent
<jjohansen> is there a design document to why unity alt-tab behaves the way it does?
<smoser> i apologize for my ignorance
<smoser> current(ish) oneiric in Unity. when i click on the date in the top left , it brings up a calendar
<smoser> previously, in that calendar i could click the arrows to go see other months
<smoser> that seems broken now
<smoser> (and for quite some time for me inoneiric)
<smoser> i'd open a bug, but i dont really even know what package that thing is , or what it is
<jjohansen> smoser: yeah that one really bothers me too, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/indicator-datetime/+bug/807509
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 807509 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Cannot click on Calendar to select another day, month or year" [High,Triaged]
<smoser> thanks for the link jjohansen
<sbte> tedg, hi, is there anything else I have to do to get my indicator-messages patch committed?
<tedg> sbte, Nope, actually going through code reviews right now :-)
<sbte> tedg, ok, great
<nhaines> tedg: when you're done with important things (like code reviews) I hope I can ping you to ping someone about Ubuntu business card artwork.  :)
<tedg> nhaines, Hmm, did that never come out?  :-/
<tedg> nhaines, I thought that doctormo made some, no?
<nhaines> tedg: no, I never heard back from ivanka and then I waited for the release to settle and then she fled.  :)
<tedg> nhaines, She's in SF right now, if you can catch her ;-)
<nhaines> tedg: doctormo's design... let's just say isn't very consistent with the branding guidelines.
<nhaines> Haha, the airport's just 30 minutes away. ;)
<tedg> nhaines, Let me ask around and see who might have it.
<nhaines> Less, actually.
<nhaines> tedg: you're golden.  Thanks so much!  :)
<tedg> nhaines, She's doing the whole thing on motorcycle... so airports aren't much use :-)
<nhaines> tedg: they might be for me though!  I'd rather play 3DS for 45 minutes than drive for 7, hehe.
#ayatana 2011-08-18
<rbnswartz> Question: Is the workspace switcher editable (like a .desktop file)?
<oSoMoN> good morning
<andyrock> smspillaz, around? it's quite urgent
<smspillaz> andyrock: yes, what's wrong ?
<andyrock> smspillaz, i just installed compiz from ppa (last omg ubuntu post)
<andyrock> and i got a crash
<smspillaz> why are they posting that ppa ?
<smspillaz> post the backtrace today, I'll fix it anyways
<andyrock> jcastro wroteit
<smspillaz> -_-
<andyrock> btw it's in WorkadounsWindow::getFixedwindowType
<smspillaz> andyrock: the ppa is out of date
<smspillaz> andyrock: I fixed that bug a week ago but the fix hasn't been uploaded yet apparantly
<andyrock> smspillaz, ah ok :) thx
<smspillaz> that ppa is not for external sharing
<DBO> andyrock, https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/unity/dnd-enhancements/+merge/71003 reviewed
<beevvy> hi, I have real trouble trying to fix problems with a plugin to IM application using libindicate-qt
<beevvy> the problem is that the plugin's .so links to libindicate-qt, but the main app doesn't
<beevvy> and every time I dlclose the plugin, the whole app crashes
<beevvy> from what I found this is because dbus-glib lacks any cleanup routines
<beevvy> agateau: I found something interesting about the above the you wrote back in 2010: http://agateau.wordpress.com/2010/09/29/fun-with-event-loops-and-qobjectdeletelater/#comment-2092
<beevvy> agateau: is that work still planned?
<beevvy> if libindicate-qt didn't depend on libindicate (the glib one), I guess all my problems will be gone
<beevvy> now the only workaround that works for me is to link the main app to libindicate but it's not a good solution
<andyrock_> DBO, cool :)
<DBO> andyrock_, in short, you broke DND :P
<andyrock_> DBO, really? with the prev unity it works fine
<DBO> not anymore
<andyrock_> DBO, as soon as i can i will try to solve the problem :)
<DBO> andyrock_, it does work well though
<DBO> picking up the content
<DBO> I love it
<andyrock_> and what about dash dnd?
<DBO> andyrock_, it seems the dash team did an excellent job breaking that all by themselves
<nhaines> Hi everyone!  In oneiric with unity 4.8.0-0ubuntu3, I'm finding some icons tile in the Dash instead of doing that cool hologram effect.  Is there a bug for this (couldn't find one) and if not, what's the best way for me to file one?  Screenshot: http://ubuntuone.com/p/1BJu/
<nhaines> In that case, consider this bug 828924.  :)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 828924 in unity (Ubuntu) "Some application icons are tiled in the Unity Dash" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/828924
#ayatana 2011-08-19
<oSoMoN> good morning
<czajkowski> Aloha
<andyrock> DBO, present?
<davidcalle> Hi andyrock!
<andyrock> hey davidcalle
<davidcalle> andyrock, how are you?
<andyrock> davidcalle, not so good... i'm a little ill
<andyrock> what about you?
<davidcalle> I'm fine, at work.
<andyrock> davidcalle, you're lucky since you have a job :)
<davidcalle> andyrock, indeed. I'm even enjoying it from time to time ;)
<andyrock> davidcalle, ;)
<andyrock> JohnLea, around?
<JohnLea> andyrock; yes, hi
<andyrock> JohnLea, about https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/764751
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 764751 in unity "Launcher - when Launcher contained folded icons, partcipants weren't able to find the rubbish bin" [Medium,Triaged]
<andyrock> can you read the last two comments?
<andyrock> please :)
<JohnLea> yes, it should be marked as fixed, thx ;-)
<JohnLea> well, as soon as the other bug is fixed ;-)
<JohnLea> marking as a dupe
<andyrock> JohnLea, thx :)
<andyrock> there is a merge proposal btw :)
<cdbs> DBO: Hi, since I'm moving to Canada today, I might not be able to get online before around, say, Tuesday. So, could you ensure that https://code.launchpad.net/~bilalakhtar/unity/software-center-integration-for-o/+merge/71905 gets merged atleast before UIF? Thanks!
<cdbs> s/gets merged/gets reviewed/
<mardy> Can please someone running unity-2d try this out:
<mardy> from a terminal, as a user, run /usr/sbin/synaptic
<mardy> on the dialog which will appear, click OK
<mardy> then check the application title, is it OK, or is it empty?
<andyrock> njpatel, the window buttons don't respect theme (also using radiance or ambiance)
<andyrock> it's a bug? or it's by design?
<njpatel> andyrock, local unity or system one?
<njpatel> Cimi__, made some changes there
<andyrock> njpatel, both system one and local one...
<njpatel> andyrock, not sure then? could you have a peek at the code? it's meant to look in the theme to see if there is a unity folder, otherwise fallback
<njpatel> maybe it's not finding the folder
<andyrock> njpatel, ok... so it's a bug. Let me try
<njpatel> thanks dude
<andyrock> njpatel, thx btw
<andyrock> njpatel, done :)
<andyrock> just a question
<andyrock> const char* var = g_getenv("GTK_DATA_PREFIX");
<andyrock>      if (!var)
<andyrock> -      var = "/usr";
<andyrock> +      var = "/usr/share/themes";
<andyrock>  
<andyrock>      glib::String filename(g_build_filename(var, _theme_name, subpath.str().c_str(), NULL));
<andyrock>  
<andyrock> or i have to add share/themes to g_build_filename?
<njpatel> andyrock, i think what you did is  finee
<andyrock> njpatel, reading here http://www.lanedo.com/~carlos/gtk3-doc/GtkCssProvider.html
<andyrock> maybe is better adding it to g_build_filename
<andyrock> *it is
<njpatel> yes, your right :)
<Cimi__> my connection sucks today
<Cimi__> njpatel: feel free to merge andyrock patch
<Cimi__> njpatel: was my fault
<mpt> Cimi, yo
<mpt> I have a couple of questions about the theme, one simple and one not-so-simple
<Cimi> mpt: all is simple for me
<Cimi> yo
<mpt> heh
<Cimi> mpt: ok, shoot<1
<Cimi> !
<mpt> Cimi, first: There seems to be a small regression in the Oneiric theme, where radio menus (ComboBox, OptionMenu) have only an arrow pointing down, rather than a pair pointing up and down
<Cimi> mpt: totally agree, could you please file a bug against gtk? gtk+ does the same too
<Cimi> mpt: I could workaround in the engine, maybe next week
<mpt> great
<Cimi> (well, I need to see)
<Cimi> (was on my list to things to remind you :D)
<mpt> Cimi, "gtk+3.0" package?
<Cimi> mpt: well, I think it could be gtkthemingengine too
<Cimi> mpt: it's in gtk+3, master too
<Cimi> mpt: explain the rationale why they should point both up and down
<mpt> sure thing
<mpt> Cimi, the possibly-not-so-simple one: One thing that always bugged me about the Light themes is that they don't distinguish between palette windows and other windows
<mpt> In Windows, Mac, and (I think) even Clearlooks, palette windows have a smaller title bar (and therefore smaller close+minimize buttons) than other windows
<mpt> That way you can tell, just by looking, that they're going to float on top of the other windows
<Cimi> mpt: palette windows?
<Cimi> mpt: utility?
<Cimi> mpt: (gimp's toolbox)
<mpt> yeah
<Cimi> mpt: bug in compiz, plus something I should do in light-themes
<mpt> and Gimp's "Tool Options" window, "Layers" window, etc
<mpt> Cimi, so should I report one bug affecting both of those two?
<Cimi> mpt: indeed, compiz didn't support them
<Cimi> mpt: with the work done for dialog windows
<Cimi> mpt: I guess support was added
<Cimi> mpt: but you know, it was removed
<Cimi> mpt: now if compiz passes the tests, it'll be reuploaded
<mpt> Cimi, so you actually have code+artwork for that already?
<Cimi> mpt: if that will happen, I need to draw the different state for the utility windows
<mpt> ah
<Cimi> mpt: code should be on the way, ask smspillazz
<Cimi> mpt: light-themes not
<Cimi> mpt: and I don't have visual assets for them
<Cimi> mpt: what I could do is make them squared
<kenvandine> cdbs, ping
<Cimi> mpt: and maybe reduce the size, but preserving the size of the buttons as I don't have different assets
<cdbs> kenvandine: Poingo
<kenvandine> hey cdbs
<kenvandine> the "avatars not loading" problem
<cdbs> Hi ken
<kenvandine> is that just displaying the nobody icon?
<cdbs> :)
<kenvandine> or is it not loading the stream?
<cdbs> yes
<cdbs> Its loading the stream
<cdbs> but displaying the generic nobody icon
<kenvandine> do you have notifications turned off?
<cdbs> except for a very small number of people in my stream
 * cdbs checks
<cdbs> kenvandine: no
<cdbs> I just turned them on though
<Cimi> mpt: roger?
<kenvandine> cdbs, ok... that is why
<kenvandine> they get cached when it notifies
<kenvandine> but
<kenvandine> that will change
<mpt> Cimi, what would it take to get the assets?
<kenvandine> njpatel is going to fix it so they load async in the stream
<cdbs> kenvandine: I mean, it was turned off, but I just turned them on
<cdbs> okie, nice to know
<kenvandine> cdbs, i assumed so
<mpt> Cimi, I got the impression from Otto that you had drawn the full-size ones
<kenvandine> i took a stab at it, but made scrolling dirt slow
<Cimi> mpt: I mean, if otto wants something different, I need him to draw special buttons
<kenvandine> so njpatel is going to work his magic and make it not suck
<cdbs> thanks kenvandine , gwibber is awesome already :)
<kenvandine> cdbs, :)
<kenvandine> right njpatel? :-D
<Cimi> mpt: if he wants the same buttons, I have full control over the rest
<mpt> Cimi, well, they need to be the same but smaller. :-) Does that require new artwork?
<Cimi> mpt: yes
<mpt> I guess it does for the symbols inside them
<mpt> otherwise they'd blur
<mpt> ok, I'll go back to Otto
<mpt> Cimi, would it be useful to report a bug to track it in the meantime?
<Cimi> mpt: no, I already opened a bugreport in my brain and I assigned it to myself. It is faster than launchpad and I receive instant notifications
<mpt> brilliant
<Cimi> :)
<mpt> I'll just tap you on the head whenever I need to see the status
<Cimi> lol
<Cimi> ;)
<mpt> Cimi, reported bug 829425 about the menu arrows
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 829425 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Radio menu (ComboBox, OptionMenu) arrows point only downward, not upward" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829425
<Cimi> mpt: ops
<Cimi> mpt: gnome bugzilla :)
<mpt> oh
<Cimi> mpt: it's affecting upstream gtk
<mpt> ok
<Cimi> (look at adwaita)
<Cimi> sorry for the misunderstood
<mpt> Cimi, I reported it upstream and linked it
<Cimi> mpt: I'll be out for a couple of hours, just tell otto to give me the new buttons for both Ambiance and Radiance in dropbox, and I'll play with them in the evening
<Cimi> mpt: awesome
<mpt> ok, thanks muchly Cimi
<Cimi> mpt: and you've seen they were all simple questions :)
<mpt> so they were
<njpatel> cdbs, kenvandine, yes, definitely :)
 * kenvandine hugs njpatel
<cdbs> njpatel is a magician :)
 * cdbs also hugs njpatel 
<njpatel> cdbs, I reviewed your branch, hopefully what I said makes sense  :)
 * cdbs checks
<cdbs> njpatel: thanks a lot for the review! /me looks at the unity::blahblah source code
<njpatel> haha
<Morta> hello
<Morta> anyone?
<Omega> hi
<andyrock> njpatel, i want use nautilus 3 dbus inteface to run the confirmation dialog when "Empty trash" is activated from launcher
<njpatel> nice
<njpatel> andyrock, I was just peeking at your branch :)
<andyrock> now i've used glib::DBusProx
<andyrock> *Proxy
<njpatel> yeah, excellent :)
<andyrock> but i don't know if it's fine having proxy as a private member
<andyrock> or i have to create a new proxy every time
<njpatel> andyrock, new proxy everytime? when?
<andyrock> everytime "empty trash" is activated
<janimo> marn
<njpatel> andyrock, oh
<njpatel> andyrock, private member variable
<njpatel> andyrock, it's async so it wouldn't work great as a local variable
<andyrock> ok i have to add some stuff to make sure that proxy is connected when Call method is called :)
<njpatel> andyrock, does nautilus do dbus activation?
<njpatel> andyrock, if so, it should be fine to just call it, activation will take care of the rest
<andyrock> njpatel, i have to check if a file service for natuilus exists in /usr/share/dbus-1/services right?
<njpatel> andyrock, right
<andyrock> [D-BUS Service]
<andyrock> Name=org.gnome.Nautilus
<andyrock> Exec=/usr/bin/nautilus --no-default-window
<njpatel> andyrock, yep
<njpatel> so you're safe
<andyrock> ok... so the newer TrashLauncherIcon.cpp is cleaner than the last one :)
<andyrock> i love outsourcing :)
<andyrock> njpatel, can i use lambda c++0x function too?
<njpatel> heh
<njpatel> andyrock, yep
<njpatel> as long as it's not crazy like what gord likes to do ;)
<andyrock> cool :)
<gord> if its not a lambda, its a bug
<gord> lambda aspect programming is the way for the future
<andyrock> lamda + async stuff lol :)
<DBO> andyrock, merged your branch
<DBO> its AWESOME
<DBO> you rock dude
<DBO> many kudos
<DBO> love, and respect
<andyrock> DBO, if i rock you are superman :)
<DBO> jcastro, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/revision/1399
<jcastro> whoa, DBO, you did a review?
<jcastro> nice!
<jcastro> (heh, just kidding)
<DBO> shutup bitch
<jcastro> ok so what does this do? the description is confusing
<jcastro> something about DND
<jcastro> what's like, an example?
<Andy80> hi all
<Andy80> Kaleo: hi :) you have any news about this https://code.launchpad.net/~andreagrandi/unity-2d/trash-nautilus-setting/+merge/70583 ? I've some spare time to try to fix it, if I only could get some feedback about my last comments ;)
<ephan>  00
<ephan> oops, nvm
<Kaleo> Andy80: I'm on it :)
<Andy80> Kaleo: good :)
<andyrock> om26er, around?
<om26er> andyrock, yes i am here and the regression is fixed thx
<om26er> andyrock, your branch did awesome things ;)
<om26er> andyrock, that firefox bug is fixed btw
<andyrock> well seb128 released unity 4.8.2ubuntu3 (and ubuntu 4 right now)
<andyrock> so why the bug is "fix-commited"? :)
<andyrock> sorry if i'm wrong
<jcastro> I think it "releases" when it's published
<jcastro> iirc it's automatic
<andyrock> jcastro, but it's aleady published :)
<Kaleo> Andy80: replied!
<jcastro> andyrock: oh, I haven't gotten it yet
<om26er> andyrock, back
<andyrock> om26er, well seb128 released unity 4.8.2ubuntu3 (and ubuntu 4 right now)
<andyrock> so why the bug is "fix-commited"? :)
<andyrock> sorry if i'm wrong
<om26er> andyrock, fix committed only for unity upstream
<om26er> because new tarball was not released
<om26er> andyrock, seb pulled from trunk till I think commit# 1400 and uploaded it
<om26er> andyrock, though I have a bug for you :p
<om26er> drag and drop issue
<andyrock> drag and drop + scale mode right?
<andyrock> om26er, ^^^
<om26er> andyrock, yes problem specific to two or more than two windows
<andyrock> well this bug is present also without my patch right?
<om26er> andyrock, maybe I never use dnd ;)
<andyrock> om26er, can you open (eventually) a new bug and assign it to me?
<om26er> andyrock, sure, I will do that.
<andyrock> om26er, i will work on it as soon as possible (i'm working on cairo stuff right know)
<andyrock> *know->now
<om26er> andyrock, the fade to show the menubar?
<om26er> *applications menu
<andyrock> right, but there are some problem with the current implementation
<om26er> :/
<om26er> andyrock, the change will be cool though
<andyrock> om26er, indeed... but before I assign it to me i want to study it a little more
<om26er>  andyrock is hard at work ;)
<sethish> In unity-2d why does Empathy flash its icon and the messaging menu?  And how do I get it to stop constantly covering my other work by activating the unity-2d icon panel?
<sethish> I really like Unity-2d otherwise, but I stopped using it because I can't figure out how to make it stop.
<jbicha> you could stop using Empathy...lol
<jbicha> I believe that behavior is by design, I don't use Empathy so I don't know if there's a way to change it
<sethish> I turned off all of empathy's notify features
<Andy80> I don't know if this is the right place where to discuss this, but.... is there any dedicated team in Ubuntu that work to make it more accessible to "special people"? I mean.. blind people, or someone who can have any problem using a keyboard ecc....?
<nhaines> Andy80: that's the Ubuntu Accessiblity Team.
<Andy80> nhaines: oh, thank you!
<Andy80> :)
<Andy80> I'll google to search more info
<nhaines> Andy80: you're welcome.  :)
#ayatana 2011-08-20
<DBO> any trunk testers present for Unity?
<DBO> I need a second opinion
<GiulioC> hi all
<GiulioC> can i ask a question about the latest update of unity (and unity-2d)?
<davidcalle> jcastro_, ping
<andyrock> hi all
<htorque> andyrock: hi! i'm sure you can help me with bug 829961 - what would i need to do to get some useful valgrind output?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 829961 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) "indicator-applications leaks memory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829961
<andyrock> htorque, hi
<andyrock> htorque, G_SLICE=always-malloc G_DEBUG=gc-friendly  valgrind -v --tool=memcheck --leak-check=full --num-callers=40 --log-file=valgrind.log compiz --replace
<andyrock> and attach valgrind.log
<htorque> can't i just write a wrapper for the indicator to check and restart that one?
<htorque> and: do i need to let it run for some time or is it done after finishing the startup?
<andyrock> mhhh... you should "valgrind" unity-panel-service
<andyrock> not the entire compiz
<andyrock> so you know unity-panel-service is a dbus service
<htorque> yeah... indicator-datetime is a small thing, indicator-applications definitely should be looked at, and unity-panel-service goes haywire here. while idling it's fine, but when using it there are some weird jumps adding lots of ram to the process.
<htorque> yes
<andyrock> so go here /usr/share/dbus-1/services
<andyrock> now you should comment (with a #) the Exec line in unity panel service file
<andyrock> i don't remember the right name of the file
<andyrock> now you can killall unity-panel-services
<htorque> com.canonical.Unity.Panel.Service.service ;-)
<andyrock> yep :)
<andyrock> btw you can killall unity-panel-services and run the command
<htorque> yeah, and then i'd start it with valgrind - when that's done can i kill it or will it finish?
<andyrock> G_DEBUG=gc-friendly  valgrind -v --tool=memcheck --leak-check=full --num-callers=40 --log-file=valgrind.log unity-panel-service
<andyrock> you can kill it...
<andyrock> or just logout and login
<andyrock> using this method you should get useful information about the leaks...
<htorque> and for those processes that leak over time, should i let valgrind run for a while or doesn't that matter?
<andyrock> use it for a while...
<andyrock> try to do something with the indicators
<andyrock> such as opening menu, scrolling
<andyrock> etc.
<andyrock> 4-5 min should be enough
<htorque> with indicator-applications and -datetime i actually don't need to do anything - mem consumption raises all the time :-(
<andyrock> so wait a pair of minutes than kill unity-panel-service or just logout/login
<htorque> unity-panel-service can be upped by opening and closing the network indicator (i think that's still called nm-applet), but i've seen leaks without doing that (just normal desktop usage)...
<andyrock> ok... update your bug description too :)
<htorque> sure, will do
<htorque> thanks for your help :-)
<andyrock> i will be online for a while... if you need help ping me ;)
<htorque> here's an updated plot: http://img.xrmb2.net/images/731666.png  - indicator-datetime and -application show the same issue after a unity restart, so at least that's reproducible here. :)
<Omega> Hmm, I found a very weird bug
<Omega> you cannot use media buttons in some applications while a right clight menu is open
<Omega> and in others (like firefox) it dismisses the right click menu
<Omega> click*
<htorque> Omega: can you give an example on such an application? i can reproduce the firefox behavior.
<Omega> banshee
<Omega> I'll submit a bug report
<andyrock> htorque, i think that valgrind unity-panel-service should valgrind also indicator-datetime, etc.
<andyrock> if i'm not wrong they are "dlopened" in unity-panel-service
<andyrock> btw tedg can give you more info ;)
<htorque> Omega: post it here, i'll confirm
<htorque> andyrock: thanks again! :-)
<andyrock> yw
<Omega> htorque: can you reproduce it with banshee, or nautilus or gnome-terminal?
<Omega> (it might affect all gtk apps)
<Omega> https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-sound/+bug/830037
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 830037 in The Sound Menu "media buttons do not function correctly when right click menu is open in some applications" [Undecided,New]
<Omega> htorque: ^
<htorque> Omega: confirmed, and yes, i'm seeing the same results in those examples
<Omega> htorque: are you on oneiric?
<htorque> yes
<Omega> I am on natty
<htorque> ok, i'll add that to the report
<Omega> (was reporting it against indicator-sound the best thing to do?)
<htorque> i got no idea myself against which package to report that
<htorque> someone will sort it out, no worries
<manzabud> hi
<manzabud> some one there
<manzabud> hi some one
