#ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-23
<veronika>  i looking fore a link so i can try to install ubuntu on my sony ericsson p990i
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Hi. Have you tried image-creator latelly? It's crashing on me when I try to add a functional set.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: yes, I'm using it right now.
<agoliveira> Have you being able to add a fset?
<Mithrandir> yes, but I use the command line mode; unsure if that matters
<agoliveira> Hmmm... didn't try by command line yet as I'm documenting the guy. Can you show me the command line you're using?
<agoliveira> s/guy/gui :)
<Mithrandir> bzr branch http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/bzr/mobile-image-runner/
<agoliveira> Hmmm... interesting. I'll check it out. Thanks.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Did you create this script for your use only or are you thinking about publishing it as part of the project?
<tko> did you guys collect a list of surprising dependencies, extra work needed, etc. around hildon somewhere?
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: it's being used for building the images in the DC.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Ok.
<Mithrandir> tko: we have the branches, but they need a bit of work to be split into something a bit more useful for you as upstreams.
<agoliveira> tko: Hi Tommy. Right now the branches are a bit crude to be of use for you directly...
<Mithrandir> tko: a bit thing, though: the soname of hildon-1 is libhildon-1.so, not libhildon1, so you should rename your binary package to match ours.  (And yes, I know that's going to be painful)
<agoliveira> Hmmm... more or less Tollef answered 10 seconds before me :)
<tko> I meant just a short list of 'icons missing', 'l10n screwed up', 'debhelper5' ...
<tko> 'no startup script'
<agoliveira> tko: We didn't paid attention to it yet.
<tko> migrations painful? you've no idea :)
<tko> I was just thinking of adding known issues to http://live.gnome.org/Hildon/Roadmap so that we get more clear understanding of things to do
<Mithrandir> ah
<humbolto> apt-get install ubuntu-mobile does not install any X server.
<humbolto> I installed x-window-system. How to start the window environment. Is there a special session I can start from gdm?
<Mithrandir> you probably want to pull in ume-config-samsung-q1-ultra or make a similar package for your device.
<humbolto> my device is a normal laptop.
<humbolto> or right now a vmware VM.
<humbolto> Can I not just start the environment which I installed?
<Mithrandir> you might get what you expect if you run start-hildon
<Mithrandir> hm, no
<Mithrandir> that expects your X server to be on :1
<Mithrandir> try editing start-hildon to assume :0 for the DISPLAY and run it, and you might get what you expect.
<humbolto> Is there any more documentation available?
<humbolto> I want to use ubuntu-mobile on my old Vaio C1 Picturebook as default window-manager environment. So I can use it again, since default ubuntu seems to be too heavy for the 265MB RAM.
<Mithrandir> you probably don't want ubuntu-mobile, but rather xubuntu or something similar, then
<humbolto> xubuntu is not much better! No, trust me, what I want is ubuntu-mobile.
<humbolto> xubuntu sucks!
<Mithrandir> I really doubt you want ubuntu-mobile, but if you feel like trying, please do.
<humbolto> This is one of these cases, OSS gets used for, which was not intended by the devs when they started it. I predict many people will want to use ubuntu-mobile on their old laptops.
<humbolto> They want to use them just for a certain set of tasks. It does not have to be all that versatile anymore. We have new laptops for that.
<humbolto> We want to hook it up to the stereo or TV, use it for email and watch movies. That's it. Oh and some basic games.
<humbolto> Everything that is provided by ubuntu-mobile.
<humbolto> Make your old laptop to be a Nokia N800.
<agoliveira> humbolto: You can give it a try but this is not what the UME is being designed for. Also remember that the project is very new so we don't really know what will happens with your notebook.
<agoliveira> humbolto: It might work with the generic kernel tough.
<humbolto> agoliveira: Believe me, you can start considering this use case! People will want to do that! And this will give linux another boost!
<humbolto> Yes sure, I will certainly use the generic kernel for that!
<humbolto> Maybe the low-latency one.
<humbolto> But I want the lean interface!
<agoliveira> humbolto: That's an idea, of course, and I'm all for it but bear in mind that's not the current focus of the project so we really can't make ay promisses.
<humbolto> Really, I beg you, and many others will follow, design ubuntu-mobile to be installed on normal systems with the standard kernel.
<humbolto> agoliveira: Just keep it in mind!
<agoliveira> humbolto: The hardware we are looking at is very standard, x86 so should be easy to install in similar devices as long as the kernel is suitable.
<humbolto> I guess all that is missing is an installer option and an automatic setup and startup of X.
<agoliveira> humbolto: Well, be our guest to try and report back ;) This is an open project after all.
<humbolto> I took the server CD to get a minimal install and installed ubuntu-mobile thereafter.
<humbolto> Now I need to setup automatic startup of X with the UME.
<humbolto> agoliveira: that's what I will do.
<agoliveira> humbolto: Take a look here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/CreatingAnImageForUMEDevice and here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/ImageCreation
<agoliveira> humbolto: There you will have a better idea about how to create an image to your target device.
<humbolto> Do I have to create an image? Is it not possible to just install ubuntu-mobile and start it?
<humbolto> On whatever kernel is running?
<humbolto> Does UME use anoter package manager than dpkg?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: The image-creator really works nicelly from command line. I suppoose the GUI only is broken. I have to talk to Rusty about it.
<agoliveira> humbolto: The UME does not have an installer like *buntu flavors. You have to either create an image or you can use a manual procedure to create your target filesystem. Check this out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure
<agoliveira> humbolto: Once it's installed and running you can use apt, dpkg or whatever usual package manager you want.
<agoliveira> humbolto: I strongly suggest you use the image-creator tough.
<humbolto> agoliveira: It is already done. My system is up and running with ubuntu-mobile installed. All that is missing is the automated startup of X and start-hildon.
<humbolto> agoliveira: or is the ubuntu-mobile package only providing the build environment?
<Mithrandir> humbolto: then you need to supply your own configuration package.
<humbolto> agoliveira: I guess not, since the last doc you pasted is pretty much proposing what I already did.
<humbolto> Mithrandir: I see.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Did you get the openmoko phone?
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: no
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I'm thinking about getting one next time I go to US.
<humbolto> I am having one problem starting my ubuntu-mobile environment in vmware. startx starts an xterm inside x. starting start-hildon in it brings up everything as it seems, but does hide the gui somehow.
<humbolto> How to disable the xterm start? I could not find a hint where it was started from with grep -R xterm /etc/X11.
<goxboxlive> hi
<goxboxlive> Is there any prebuild images for download somewhere? I want to test it with HTC Universal and hh.org kernel.
<agoliveira> rusty: Hi Rusty. Can I bother you for a few minutes? There's a but when using image creator with gui that's preventing me to generate an image.
<agoliveira> s/but/bug
<rusty> agoliveira, what'a the bug
<agoliveira> rusty, let me run it again to get it fresh
<agoliveira> rusty, I'll have to send you the logs but, for starters, it tries to install matchbox-keyboard-toggler but says it can't find it despite the package exists on gutsy.
<rusty> agoliveira, I'm about to go offline for a while... i need to catch the light rail down the the conf center where Ubuntu Live is held
<rusty> agoliveira, could you fill out a bug report on moblin.org?
<agoliveira> Sure.
<charliefjohnson> jacob-pc: Are you checking into the FSET add failure I reported ??  None of the FSETs other than "core" adds successfully.
<jacob-pc> charliefjohnson: no
<agoliveira> charliefjohnson: I can confirm that and I've added a bug at moblin.org as Rusty requested.
<charliefjohnson> agoliveira: I guess I should have done that.  Makes it hard to do any pre-alpha testing.
<agoliveira> charliefjohnson: Indeed.
<charliefjohnson> agoliveira: I could not find a bug in the bugzilla.  Can you give me the bug #?
<agoliveira> charliefjohnson: #24
<charliefjohnson> agoliveira: OK - Thanks
<agoliveira> charliefjohnson: My pleasure
<ian_brasil_> i was able to add an ubuntu-mobile fset and it seemed to work ok
<charliefjohnson> ian_brasil_:I'll try it.  Thanks.
<agoliveira> ian_brasil_: I didn't try every single fset so it might work.
<ian_brasil_> <joke>at least the important one works ok hein </joke>
<agoliveira> ian_brasil_: ;)
<agoliveira> ian_brasil_: BTW, are you eher already?
* agoliveira thinks if there is such things as dyslexic fingers... eher was weird...
<ian_brasil_> nope...with the accident in Sao Paulo i think arranging air travel in Brazil is a bit difficult...it was like a horror story watching it on tv
<agoliveira> ian_brasil_: Yeah, that was awful
<agoliveira> ian_brasil_: Thank God I don't have to travel soon
<ian_brasil_> i am praying to him for a safe journey
<agoliveira> ian_brasil_: Right now is not a matter of be safe but do. After the accident very restrictive safe measures were taken which is good for safety but a complete mess for all the rest. About 1/2 the planned flights right have one problem or another regarding delays ort being diverted to a different airport.
<ian_brasil_> sounds like a bagunca ...i hate air travel...i wish i could go by train really
<charliefjohnson> Folks - what is included in the "core" fset ?  
<Mithrandir> charliefjohnson: ubuntu-minimal and grub; it's quite useless by itself as it lacks a kernel.
<charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Oh.  We so far none of the menlow platform fsets will successfully add other than core.  Makes it tough to see if we have something that will do something minimal on a menlow system.
<Mithrandir> oh, the menlow core one is different to the mccaslin one
<Mithrandir> grub busybox-initramfs linux-image-2.6.22-8-ume linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22-8-ume initramfs-tools is the menlow core one.
<Mithrandir> it should probably be changed to linux-ume and not the versioned ones.
<suihkulokki> stupid newbie question..
<suihkulokki> is there a way to debootstrap UME and run it in a chroot?
<Mithrandir> yes
<suihkulokki> i did not find instructions browsing from the wikipage in the topic
<Mithrandir> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure
<Mithrandir> sorry it took a bit to find
<suihkulokki> heh
<suihkulokki> oh that's simple
<Mithrandir> yes, it's not that hard.
<GyrosGeier> hi
<GyrosGeier> I'm currently hacking on the mother of all toolchain build scripts and wanted to swap notes
<Mithrandir> hi GyrosGeier 
<Mithrandir> we're not doing crossbuilds, though
<GyrosGeier> I'm interested in building the toolchain primarily
<GyrosGeier> gcc-4.2 Build-Depends on a fairly recent libc and on gcc-4.1-multilib | gcc-4.2-multilib
<GyrosGeier> all of that stuff isn't in Dapper, so I'm thinking of having a native gcc backport to build a cross gcc backport; however the current package cannot be built even as a native compiler on Dapper
<Mithrandir> that might well be
<Mithrandir> you'd probably want to talk to doko about that, though
<Mithrandir> since he knows the toolchain best
<GyrosGeier> okay
<Mithrandir> sorry to just be bouncing you along. :-/
<GyrosGeier> hehe
<GyrosGeier> I'm wondering whether it makes sense to coordinate efforts on the cross toolchains between Debian and Ubuntu, given that the toolchain maintainers are essentially the same people
<Mithrandir> it sounds sane to me, but I don't have any time to help out
<charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Back to the FSET names.  Is there a reason we are keeping some level of consistency between mcaslin and menlow ? Is this really a rusty question?
<Mithrandir> charliefjohnson: it's a rusty question; he's the master of the image creator.
<charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: He is here at Ubuntu Live, I'll ask him.
<Mithrandir> ok.
<Mithrandir> how's it there?
<GyrosGeier> hmm
<GyrosGeier> gcc's rules.defs has a conditional definition for ssp_no_archs for cross compilers, followed by an unconditional one
<GyrosGeier> that smells wrong
<charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: OK.  The technical content of some of the talks is a bit light.
<Mithrandir> GyrosGeier: file a bug. :-)
* GyrosGeier test-compiles first, then files a bug
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-24
<lool> Heya; I've noticed hildon-fm doesn't build anymore with gtk 2.11.x; I've pushed a fix in 2.11.6-1 in Debian/experimental
<Mithrandir> any chance we could convince you to merge that into the branch in LP too? :-)
<lool> I don't think gtk is maintained in LP, is it?
<Mithrandir> ah, the fix is in gtk?
<lool> Yes
<Mithrandir> ok, thanks.  I'll ask seb128 to pull it in, then
<lool> But I would have merged a fix in an ubuntu-mobile bzred package :)
<Mithrandir> seb128: ^^ ; pretty please?
<lool> seb128: ^^^
<seb128> Mithrandir: yeah, will do it
<Mithrandir> thanks a lot.
<seb128> you're welcome
<lool> seb128: Basically 009_filechooserfoobar and the 070_relibtoolize of course
<seb128> lool: I'll just take the Debian package as it is and apply Ubuntu changes
<lool> Perfect
<GyrosGeier> doko, ping?
<doko> GyrosGeier: do you want to propose a m68k port?
<GyrosGeier> yes and no
<GyrosGeier> I need cross compilers for dapper
<GyrosGeier> but I'm not entirely sure about some things
<GyrosGeier> debian/rules2 sets -fno-stack-protector if $with_ssp_default is set, for both STAGE1_CFLAGS and BOOT_CFLAGS
<GyrosGeier> with this flag, compilation fails, because Dapper's gcc doesn't know it
<GyrosGeier> without it, I have undefined symbols in libcpp.a (but only there)
<GyrosGeier> so it seems that STAGE1_CFLAGS is used outside of stage 1 when building a cross compiler
<GyrosGeier> (the undefined symbols are the check value and abort function of the stack checker
<GyrosGeier> also, I'm slightly confused, as I thought that cross compilers are built in a single pass
<doko> GyrosGeier: afaik the cross stuff in gcc-4.0 is out of date.
<GyrosGeier> but libcpp.a is obviously built with stack-protector
<GyrosGeier> it's the most recent gcc package
<GyrosGeier> the compiler is allowed to be recent
<GyrosGeier> but the people who want it are running Dapper
<GyrosGeier> and do not want to upgrade
<doko> seems I still do not understand what you want. dapper's gcc doesn't turn on stack-protector by default
<GyrosGeier> (so I thought I'd write a script that builds all combinations for all supportable distributions; http://www.emdebian.org/~sjr/toolchains/pool/main/b/binutils/ is my collection of binutils packages
<GyrosGeier> doko, that's why I'm confused
<GyrosGeier> it doesn't have stack-protector, I think; otherwise it wouldn't fail and complain with -fno-stack-protector
<GyrosGeier> but libcpp.a is built with stack-protector
<doko> so which package do you try to build?
<GyrosGeier> ATM most recent gcc-4.2 as found in Debian sid (I understand that should be identical to the one in gutsy)
<GyrosGeier> build environment is Dapper, with backported dpkg and binutils
<doko> well, then start to backport gcc-4.2 to dapper; I didn't do that
<GyrosGeier> you are the sole Uploader in the gcc-4.2 package
<GyrosGeier> essentially, this is what I'm doing; gcc-4.2 only builds with a fairly recent gcc, it seems
<GyrosGeier> (or at least the build-deps claim so)
<doko> gcc-4.2 should build with dapper's gcc as a bootstrap compiler
<GyrosGeier> nope; that's why I'm asking.
<GyrosGeier> it fails because of -fno-stack-protector and (later) because of ld --hash-style=both
<GyrosGeier> the latter is why I backported binutils first
<doko> for a native build?
<doko> not a cross?
<GyrosGeier> native build also fails.
* GyrosGeier goes back to native mode
<GyrosGeier> IIRC it was also -fno-stack-protector
<doko> well, try to build a compiler first, without stack-protector as the default, then use that as the bootstrap compiler; or find out why it wants to use the -fno-stack-protector option for the stage1 compiler
<GyrosGeier> doko, debian/rules2 sets that option unconditionally when it builds a compiler with stack protector
<doko> well, then remove it?
<GyrosGeier> then the linking fails, as described above, because libgcc gets compiled with stack-protector enabled
<GyrosGeier> a cross build shouldn't build a bootstrap compiler, should it?
<doko> then go back to use a bootstrap compiler which understands -fstack-protector
<GyrosGeier> okay
<GyrosGeier> also, debian_rules.defs lines 402 to 405 seem wrong
<GyrosGeier> ssp_no_archs is first set conditionally for cross builds, and then unconditionally overwritten
<GyrosGeier> fixing that doesn't change anything for me, interestingly
<seb128> Mithrandir, lool: GTK synced and libhildonfm builds fine again
<seb128> s/synced/merged
<Mithrandir> thanks a lot
<agoliveira> seb128: Yey! )
<seb128> you're welcome
<agoliveira> :)
<Mithrandir> once moblin-image-creator hits, I _think_ we should be able to build images properly
<GyrosGeier> w00t
<GyrosGeier> where can I take a look at the image creator?
<Mithrandir> apt-get source moblin-image-creator on a gutsy system, or git clone rsync://moblin.org/tools/moblin-image-creator.git
<GyrosGeier> thanks
* GyrosGeier checks it out
<GyrosGeier> @ERROR: Unknown module 'tools'
<GyrosGeier> repos/tools
* GyrosGeier heads out to the bureau
<Jonathan_Cardozo> GyronsGeier use the console syntax
<Jonathan_Cardozo> in my feisty fawn ucurred this to
<GyrosGeier> git clone rsync://moblin.org/repos/tools/moblin-image-creator.git
<GyrosGeier> that is what I was trying to say
<Jonathan_Cardozo> Gyros, this line copy a tree of source from moblin0image-creator, the last release of tha
<Jonathan_Cardozo> copy and compile in you machine
<GyrosGeier> yes
<GyrosGeier> the path was wrong before
<Hub441> hi!
<lool> Hmm, I think there's something wrong with https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/hildon-fm-l10n/trunk the SVN has way more revisions than this mirror
<lool> Who can I ask to update it to track stage.maemo.org/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-fm-l10n instead of whatever it tracks?
<Mithrandir> Adilson is the registrar, so he should be able to see where it pulls from
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: ^^ ; could you please tend to this?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir, lool, No problem
<Mithrandir> thanks
<lool> agoliveira: thanks!
<lool> Mithrandir: How can I see who's the registrar?  I saw "VCS imports" on launchpad
<Mithrandir> click on the project, then on overview and then on the lifecycle portlet.
<lool> Got it; thanks
<agoliveira> Hmmm... looks like even being the registar, I don't have the rights to change where to import it from.
<agoliveira> lool, the current hildon-fm-l10n is being imported from stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-fm-l10n-2.0. Are you sure we should move it to stage.maemo.org/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-fm-l10n?
<agoliveira> lool, if you confirm that, I will have to ask someone from the VCS team to change it as, once the import starts, only them can do it.
<agoliveira> Well, I'm going lunch now.
<lool> agoliveira: The SVN log I have from the 2.0 branch seems to be included in the 3.0 branch which I think is "stage.maemo.org/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-fm-l10n"
<lool> agoliveira_lunch: And they seem to be tracking this branch in repository.maemo.org/pool/sardine
<lool> agoliveira_lunch: But these are all my guesses; I do think this is a newer version, but there's an inconsistency between the SVN and the archive (version in archive is slightly older than SVN)
<agoliveira> lool: You're seen to be right about it. I'll ask for the change. Thanks for pointing that out.
<lool> Cool, thanks
<agoliveira> lool: Thank you :) I already requested the change.
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kubrick.freenode.net
<CharliefJohnson> amitk_: Did you get adequate response to your comments on the mobile-power-thermal-optimizations blueprint ?? 
<CharliefJohnson> Amit - Are you online?
<amitk_> CharliefJohnson: not yet. We are supposed to have a conf call thurs/fri
<amitk> CharliefJohnson: sujith requested a conf call to discuss the blueprint
<CharliefJohnson> amitk: That's good.  That will allow for a much higher bandwidth discussion.  Thanks.
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kubrick.freenode.net
<amitk> CharliefJohnson: Would it be possible to get them on IRC or discuss on the UME mailing lists on a regular basis? That might allow others in canonical to keep abreast of the discussions.
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-25
<WorkingGeier> if anyone is interested, I have a gcc 4.2 ARM EABI toolchain backport for Dapper at "deb http://www.emdebian.org/~sjr/toolchains dapper main"
<WorkingGeier> this is not a final version, as I had to modify the source a bit (patches will be sent when they are stable)
<WorkingGeier> If you try it out, and I have left in the meantime, please send mail to sjr@debian.org
<asac> hmm starting xephyr fails like
<asac> Could not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic, removing from list!
<asac> Fatal server error:
<asac> could not open default font 'fixed'
<asac> oh nm
<asac> hmmm ... now hildon desktop looks really broken :) ... waiting for adilson
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-07-21
<kevinO> hello does anyone know hot to calibrate touchscreens? I have an elo touchscreen that pretty much works out of the box, it just needs to be calibrated.
<Celtiore> hi
<Celtiore> kevinO 
<Celtiore> kevinO  : http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/evtouch
<Celtiore> i have elotocuh 1515l usb and it works
<tonyespy> Blythe: the canonical wiki has two addresses for the montreal office?
<tonyespy> one is 1250 Renee Leveque and the other is listed as the Support Office is listed at 1425 RL? 
<tonyespy> sorry wrong channel.  ;(
<jhaas> Hello... I'm attempting to install Ubuntu MID on my Samsung Q1U. I put it on a USB drive and booted, was prompted to press ENTER, the standard Linux boot stuff rolled by, then it said "will mount from /dev/sdb", and has sat there for like 15 minutes. The activity light on the USB drive is flashing. Should I just let it sit there, and how long should it take?
<jhaas> Anyone?
<GrueMaster> jhaas:  You may need to reimage your flash drive.  What command did you use?
<jhaas> Hmm, I don't remember, GrueMaster. I imaged the drive a few weeks ago but only now got around to installing.
<jhaas> Is there a good way of putting the .img file on a USB drive in Windows? I'm at work at the moment and Windows is the operating system convenient to me right now.
<GrueMaster> If you still have the img file lying around, use "dd bs=1024 if=<imagefile.img> of=/dev/sdb"
<GrueMaster> Or whatever your usb drive is on your host pc.
<GrueMaster> But you need the "bs=1024".  Otherwise, the drive won't always work.
<jhaas> I do still have the .img... will give it a try.
<jhaas> I'm still a bit of a Linux newbie... what command can I use to verify that /dev/sdb is in fact my USB drive so I don't accidentally clobber a different one?
<GrueMaster> after inserting the drive, type "dmesg" to see which one it was detected as.
<GrueMaster> Also, make sure to unmount it before using dd, as the filesystem can become corrupted otherwise.
<jhaas> Taking forever to copy the .img file from the Windows box I downloaded it to to my home directory.
<jhaas> ::impatient::
<jhaas> Seems to have done the trick, GrueMaster, thanks.
<GrueMaster> No problem.  Have fun with your new image.
<jhaas> Will try.
<jhaas> I'm hoping to find some use for this Q1U, which was all but unusable with Vista on it :)
<GrueMaster> You may need to install the mad wifi drivers to get wireless working.  Other than that, ours work fine.
<GrueMaster> Of course, don't try to run Doom3 or Quake4.  
<jhaas> And, there goes the battery. Knew I shoulda brought the charger.
<jhaas> Oh well, will play with it when I get home.
<jhaas> Thanks again, I'm off.
<mkrufky> ...anybody else notice that mobilepartners.canonical.com is down?>
<davisc> Are the deps for virtual-mobile-builder broken? Saying "Depends: ubuntu-vm-builder (>= 0.4-0ubuntu0.3) but 0.4-0ubuntu0.3~804um1 is to be installed"
<davisc> (or the version of ubuntu-vm-builder)
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-07-22
<Nebbuchanezzar> hello...i have a quick question...
<Nebbuchanezzar> i currently have an HTC wing, and am looking to replace it...i stumbled upon the UME FAQ on the ubuntu site, and am very intrigued...however, i was wondering, are there any recommended devices? i read about the lpia, and all, but cant seem to find any actual products, just white-papers, and the sort...any help would be greatly appreciated...
<netdur> can ubuntu-mobile (or notebook) be installed on pc?
<BenLauDC> yes , but it will erase the partition
<netdur> thanks
<netdur> which image I should download?
<persia> netdur: mccaslin likely works best for a PC, although you'll likely have to fuss with drivers anyway, so the menlow image may be just as good.
<netdur> Thank you
<BenLauDC> It is better to run inside a virtual machine
<netdur> I got old pcs (p2 & p3), I wanna try ubuntu-mobile as replacement for puppylinux
<persia> Yes.  Either a virtual machine or a small high-DPI laptop (or similar device) if you have one.
<persia> Running on a regular PC tends to look fairly bad, and can be frustrating to use directly.
<netdur> why?
<persia> It looks bad because the images are targeted at a high-DPI environment, so tend to look blurry or pixellated at e.g. 86 DPI.  The virtual machine doesn't really help with that.
<persia> It can be frustrating to use directly for normal computing activities due to the small number of included applications and nature of the interface: the current images are very much designed for limited environments, and do not well take advantage of larger equipment.
<netdur> is regular tv a "high-DPI"
<persia> Depends on the size of the TV :)
<netdur> (because at end of day, those pc are just test bed for media center)
<netdur> ok
<persia> Regular TV is typically QVGA, so at e.g. 200 DPIm it would be a screen about 1.6" x 1.2"
<persia> As much as I like Ubuntu Mobile, for a media centre, I suspect you'd be better served by Mythbuntu.
<netdur> nah! I checked that, myth too bloated
<netdur> and a nightmare from usability view
<persia> Hmm.  It's fairly similar in terms of minimums.  While Ubuntu Mobile is known to work well with 800MHz processors, those are the Intel A110s, which tend to do more per clock than many processors.  Less than 256MB RAM would be painful, and 512MB would be better (I use 1024 on a 800MHz A110, and it still feels slow).
<persia> On the other hand, if usability is your issue, please take a look: it may be that some combination of the packages used in both environments will work for you.
<netdur> do ubuntu support processor C7?
<persia> Ubuntu does, but only for the i386 architecture.  The current Ubuntu Mobile images are only available for the lpia architecture.  As a result, the process of getting Ubuntu Mobile to work on a C7 is not well understood.
<persia> This is in large part a result of the late release of Ubuntu Mobile for 8.04, and may not be such an issue for 8.10 (but is certainly awkward today).
<netdur> thanks
<BenLauDC> I could built for EeePC using i386 package, so I think it is fine, but ofcoz you may need to adjust few packages
 * cody-somerville wonders if git is supposed to segfault or glibc barf everytime he tries to use it to clone.
<persia> Yeah.  There's a lot of lpia-specific hacks on the core packages, which makes the i386 version a little odd.
<persia> cody-somerville: What's happening now?
<cody-somerville> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/29347/
<cody-somerville> persia, I tried twice before as well and it segfaulted both times.
<cody-somerville> I think it occurs when it can't connect or something. I'll try again in a little bit.
<persia> cody-somerville: Absolutely no idea why you get that.  Also, I find that M-I-C to be even more broken than others, and recommend dget http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu/pool/main/m/moblin-image-creator/moblin-image-creator_0.44+repack-0ubuntu12~804um2.dsc
<cody-somerville> ok
<cody-somerville> thanks
<persia> Also, you seem to be missing some dbgsym packages that make the backtrace less than useful.  It's likely worth filing a bug against git, as it oughtn't segfault ever (nothing should)
 * cody-somerville nods.
<jeward> Hi, can I expect to run ubuntu mobile on a Nokia n810 anytime soon?
<persia> jeward: There's two outstanding issues, and no published schedule for either.  Firstly, Ubuntu doesn't run on ARM.  Secondly, that hardware has some bits for which there are no free drivers.
<persia> Several people have compiled Ubuntu for ARM in various ways, and there is a Debian armel port, so the first mostly needs work and hosting.
<jeward> So maybe never.
<persia> The second is more problematic, and the answer may be never, although some people may be working to reverse engineer what is needed (I don't know for sure).
<jeward> What's the best channel to talk about the n810 on?
<persia> I'm not sure.
<jeward> Hmmm: http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2097004728.html
<persia> Yep.  That's one of the efforts to compile Ubuntu for ARM.  I've only heard good things.
<ogra> persia, hey, so how is the heatwave up there ? 
<ogra> seems you are not dropping off that often anymore
<persia> ogra: A new ambient fan and compressed air can do wonders.  Now if only it were a "heat wave" rather than just summer :)
<jeward> This means what in terms of ARM nomenclature: TI OMAP 2420, 400Mhz
<jeward>  
<ogra> heh
<persia> Texas Instruments, (chip type) (model number) (clock speed)
<jeward> Yeah, I'm wonderingt how that translates into ARM?
<jeward> ARMv5EL for example.
<persia> That sounds roughly right off the top of my head, but I'm not 100% sure.
<JCante> are there any MIDs that ship with Ubuntu Mobile?
<JCante> and are there any that support it that are affordable and don't suck?
<Cody> Hello
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-07-23
<persia> nalioth: Thanks.
<nalioth> np
<kevinO> hello, is there a image i can download that will install on my pc?
<kevinO> i see mccaslin and menlow but id do not see one for just normal pc
<cody-somerville> You can run it in Xephyr
<csomerville-ume> tada
<kevinO> i cant run it in xorg?
<kevinO> csomerville-ume, i have hardy installed, i just installed ubuntu-mobile so how do i set ubuntu mobile to start instead of gnome
<csomerville-ume> I installed it in a chroot myself.
<kevinO> i dont know what that means
<kevinO> i just want to try it out
<kevinO> lol
<kevinO> ...
<csomerville-ume> Sorry, I'm preparing for bed.
<csomerville-ume> But lots of helpful information can be found here at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
<kevinO> how do i make hildon-desktop the deafult desktop? or is that the wrong way to do it
<BenLauDC> kevinO : http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4093600&postcount=6
<frenzy42> can you install the mobile ubuntu on any device?
<burn_> hi guys, can i install UBuntu Mobile on my o2 xda stealth?
<DNi2> hi
<DNi2> is ume a real image now ? 
<DNi2> i mean with installer , possibility of making dual-boot durring install
<DNi2> and others things...
<DNi2> another question, is there a difference with ubuntu netbook-remix ?
<guruz> hello folks.
<guruz> Is there any ETA when the netbook remix will come out/
<guruz> I know, I could install now.. but I'd prefer to wait until all rough edges are gone
<persia> guruz: How do you mean?  While I'm not deeply familiar with the netbook remix, I thought it was released with the announcement some time ago.
<swirv> guruz the acer aspire one, which I also have a few of, are almost identical to the wind... smaller screen and 1.8" hdd or sdd
<swirv> I think the wireless card in the one will work better than the Wind.
<swirv> then netbook remix is just a handfull of packages that you install ..
<swirv> Be sure you turn off desktop effects before you install the packages.. 
<swirv> You do not need/want compiz running with the netbook GUI.
<whadar> can I test the remix on a normal PC?
<whadar> I want to check out hildon GUI
<persia> whadar: I don't think netbook remix uses hildon.
<whadar> oh
<persia> If you want to look at hildon, I suggest using the mccaslin image for ubuntu-mobile (URL in the /topic).
<persia> That ought to work (mostly) on many normal PCs, although it will reinstall.
<persia> The more common choice is to try the interface in a VM, for which the KVM image (at the same URL) is likely the best choice.
<whadar> so other than being compatible with these laptops hardware, what makes the remix image different than plain ubuntu?
<whadar> I thought it uses some special gui
<persia> whadar: I'm not very familiar with the remix, but it does have some GUI changes, but it's only four packages.  Ubuntu Mobile is a mostly different set of packages, and has a completely different interface.
<GrueMaster> I'm trying to track an ALSA power issue, and noticed that the core of the sound drivers are built into the kernel.  Is there a reason for this?  They should be loaded as modules, so that they can be reloaded with debugging info compiled in.
<persia> GrueMaster: Most of the modules were compiled into the kernel just before the hardy release to reduce boot times.
<GrueMaster> hmmm.  I don't see alsa providing much gain there, but ok.
<persia> It's not alsa specifically, it was to skip the modprobe delay when parsing modules.dep, etc.
<lool> GrueMaster: Actually alsa modules are numerous and interdepedent; for some reason modprove is slow, and serializes loads; with the modules in kernel, 
<lool> module init is much faster
<GrueMaster> Well, there are some issues with the version of alsa that is built in, namely that the audio codec never sleeps.  
<GrueMaster> I'm trying to debug it, but I guess I'll need to rebuild the kernel first.
<ajehals> Just looking at the Ubuntu MIB pages at present, wondered if there is any chance that older devices that are currently well supported under linux (like the some of the Ipaq's) are likley to see support in the future (I know its ARM) or if anyone is quietly working on it atm, I have a few Ipaqs currently running Gentoo and would like to play with this at some point...
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-07-24
<[ANC]wyhteagle> hey all, does anyone have a URL of phones this software currently works on?
<GrueMaster> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ
<[ANC]wyhteagle> thanks
<[ANC]wyhteagle> ok so looking at this in quick glace guessing it doesn't work nor been tested on HTC 6800?
<GrueMaster> It only works on x86 hardware.  If this device is x86 based, you can get it to work.
<[ANC]wyhteagle> ok guess my phone isn't x86 hardware doesn't show it will I google it 
<shishirmk> is wubi a part of the iso UBUNTU MID iso 
<shishirmk> like any other ubuntu 8.04 distros??
<fhteagle> greetings all
<fhteagle> I have a few noob-ish questions if someone has a sec...
<fhteagle> I've been watching with interest the port of linux to traditionally winmo devices, particularly the htc kaiser and similar
<fhteagle> and they've basically got android's gui working well with poor performance in the cell radios/data, sdhc, etc
<fhteagle> and they have the openmoko/angstrom console booting with good control of hardware but no usable gui
<fhteagle> trying to find out if blending the angstrom initrd elements that are working with the Ubuntu Mobile interface might be a solution
<fhteagle> trying to find out if blending the angstrom initrd elements that are working with the Ubuntu Mobile interface might be a solution
<persia> fhteagle: It might be one possible solution.  You might give it a try.
<persia> Reminder: The weekly meeting will be held in #ubuntu-meeting, starting in one hour.
<persia> Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 7 minutes
<persia> Weekly meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now
<ian_brasil> nice meeting ;)
<persia> ian_brasil: We try not to run over :)
<ian_brasil> are there any current blueprints for mobile on launchpad?
<ian_brasil> for intrepid and/or beyond?
<persia> ian_brasil: Probably, but I've not seen a clear roadmap.  My (limited) understanding is that intrepid is mostly bugfix, and intrepid+1 is migration to moblin 2.0, although I've heard a number of different plans as well.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-07-25
<BenLauDC> What is the screen saver application used with hildon desktop? 
<asac> lool: there?
<asac> lool: if so, i have to upload xul + midbrowser to PPA to unbreak it i guess
<asac> (well, xul for security)
<oerkrz> hi
<oerkrz> ubuntu mobile will be possible to install on iphone ?
<oerkrz> peut on installer google maps sur 3310 ?
<persia> oerkrz: Ubuntu Mobile doesn't work on an iPhone.  I don't know if google maps works on a 3310 (or even what you mean by a 3310)
<oerkrz> sorry
<oerkrz> it was a wrong
<persia> pas de probleme
<davisc> Are the deps for virtual-mobile-builder or ubuntu-vm-builder broken? Getting an error: "virtual-mobile-builder: Depends: ubuntu-vm-builder (>= 0.4-0ubuntu0.3) but 0.4-0ubuntu0.3~804um1 is to be installed"
<persia> davisc: The upload of 0.4-0ubuntu0.3~084um1 is unfortunately versioned, which causes that.  You can force it.
<davisc> persia: Presumably wget'ing the debs and dpkg --force?
<persia> davisc: That works, or pulling 0.4-0ubuntu0.3 from LP directly (should be somewhere under https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-vm-builder/ )
<davisc> Will UME work on an eeePC 901? Or is it even intended for it?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-07-26
<wayneandleanne> hi all i'm trying to run "kvm -hda root.qcow2" , however i get an error "Ubuntu does not support running KVM without hardware acceleration. Sorry." can somebody explain what i'm missing?
<StevenK> wayneandleanne: A processor that has virtualization support.
<wayneandleanne> do you know which do?
<StevenK> Not off hand, sorry.
<wayneandleanne> anyway to run without?
<StevenK> I'm not certain, sorry, I remain fairly ignorant about virtualization.
<wayneandleanne> well thanks for the help, however can ubuntu mobile be run in something like virtualbox?
<eyxs> hellow... i just wanted to know if ubuntu mid is compatible with the htc touch smartphone or only with small pc
<Sciri> eyxs: Ubuntu Mobile Edition is X86-based compiled for LPIA architecture, so it will run on any X86 or LPIA device; I don't know what architecture the HTC Touch Smartphone is.
<eyxs> thank you :) the Htc Touch will not be compatible ^-^
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-07-27
<wasabi> so what happened with the moblin stuff? just business bs?
<wasabi> the rpm excuse carries no weight with me.
<Absnthe> What would you guys say about suitability for a 2g eeepc?
<BenLauDC> It is not worth
<Absnthe> why?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-07-20
<epuzarne> cgregan: ping
<cgregan> epuzarne: pong
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-07-21
<beyossi> I am looking for some beginning guidelines for using existing portings into OMAP35xx platform (particularly beagleboard). Is that the right IRC channel?
<ogra> beyossi, try #ubuntu-arm
<beyossi> thanks!
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-07-22
<MrApe> hi..
<MrApe> anybody out there?
<InSearchOf> I'm here.. but I'm not really any help
<MrApe> hmm..
<MrApe> any experience with ubuntu-mobile??
<MrApe> I'm looking for a kind of "supported-Devices" List
<MrApe> Hi.
<MrApe> I have an MSI Wind U115 with the Intel US15W chipset (poulsbo). Is this supported by Ubuntu-Mobile?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-07-23
<SeniorMoo> hi, has someone tried ubuntu mobile on a VIA EPIA board? any good ?
<SeniorMoo> also, does it work as an nfs client? how hard/easy is it to recompile the kernel for it or add apps ?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-07-25
<Chase_> hello all, is there a way I can run the karmic daily image in kvm?
<Chase_> I see the usb images, but I've never used a usb image to boot a kvm machine
<Chase_> I'll google for more info, but was wondering if there was a good guide anywhere
<Chase_> actually, I think I found my answer: http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com/msg01745.html
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-07-26
<Lantizia> Hey I'm messing about with a Datawind Ubisurfer... it's basically a veeeeeey cheap netboot with a built in gprs modem
<Lantizia> is there a rootfs I can transplant my current / for?
