#ubuntu-java 2005-07-04
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<jbailey> wasabi: ping?
<jbailey> I'm curious if you've got the right ant bits in place, and you said you thought you might have an ecj.1 that I could just take for ecj-bootstrap.
<wasabi> http://kyoto.larvalstage.net/~wasabi/ecj.1
<wasabi> Probably needs updating
<jbailey> 'kay
<wasabi> Ant's fine to the best of my knowledge. What's up?
<jbailey> checksum mismatch between the changes file and the diff.gz
<wasabi> I have to hurry up and get ready for work. I over slept. bbl. ;)
<wasabi> eh? what the hell.
<wasabi> I rebuilt that.
<jbailey> I can try again.
<jbailey> Oo, eclipse is there now too.  Do you want that done as well?
<wasabi> Yup. ;)
<wasabi> Do you mind trying to build it first?
<wasabi> I have given it all the tests I can.
<wasabi> Redownload ant.
<jbailey> No prob.  I'll test on ppc and ia64.
<wasabi> I have rebuilt it.
<wasabi> I know it won't work on those still.
<jbailey> thanks
<wasabi> But you'r ewelcome to help fix it!
<wasabi> Eclipse suffers from a chicken-and-the-egg problem on !i386
<jbailey> Are you able to talk at work?  I don't want to make you late.
<wasabi> yeah. thanks. bbl.
<wasabi> oh wait don't upload eclipse
<wasabi> ya'll don't support ~ in versions yet.
<wasabi> I'll package the released 3.1 and that'll fix that. ;)
<jbailey> 'kay.  I'll do a test build anyway though.
<jbailey> ant uploaded
<doko> jbailey: b-d on java-gcj-compat-dev ?
<jbailey> java-gcj-compat (>=1.0.28-4ubuntu1)
<jbailey> Should that be tweaked and reuploaded?
<jbailey> And will ecj-bootstrap need the same love?
<wasabi> what is in -dev?
<jbailey> wasabi: HAven't you left yet? =)
<wasabi> Just finished shower heh
<jbailey> *lol
<jbailey> I was wondering if you had started using irssi in a screen session. =)
<wasabi> So I just had 15 seconds to think about j-g-c-dev. What's in it?
<wasabi> The only thing I can think of is the headers.
<jbailey> doko: ^^^
<jbailey> Helps to use nick highlights. =)
<wasabi> And if so, everything should depend on both... as it's not a "Sun comaptible JAVA_HOME" without both.
<doko> wasabi: and gcj, and rmic, and javah ...
<doko> jbailey: ecj is a b-d of java-gcj-compat-dev
<wasabi> Well, that's the thing though.
<wasabi> THe idea of j-g-c is to provide Sun compatibility.
<wasabi> Without both, it isn't Sun compatible.
<wasabi> me->work bbs
<doko> wasabi: there is runtime compatibility (jre) and compile time compatibility (sdk). we don't want to have a compiler installed for using an application
<jbailey> doko: I think he logs in as a separate account at work, he probably won't see that until he gets home.
* jbailey does the summon wasabi dance.
<doko> <doko> wasabi: there is runtime compatibility (jre) and compile time compatibility (sdk). we don't want to have a compiler installed for using an application
<doko> wasabi_: ^^^
<wasabi_> Hmm. Perhaps.
<jbailey> wasabi_: Does ecj-bootstrap need to be touched at all then, or can I upload it?
<jbailey> I've hacked in the manpage bits.
<wasabi_> It should be fine.
<jbailey> And the eclipse directory was empty when I looked earlier.
<wasabi_> Yeah. I need to upgrade it to 3.1 release.
<wasabi_> I'll get it this evening.
<jbailey> Ah, np.  I can look at the !i386 bootstrap issue for the package, too.
<wasabi_> I can describe the problem.
<wasabi_> There is a pre-built Jar named swttools.jar. What it does is copy the win32 x86 SWT source code to the other platform directories, and replace the "int" native handles with long for 64 bit. And some other stuff for other platforms.
<wasabi_> swttools requires SWT to build from scratch.
<jbailey> Joy.
<jbailey> ecj-bootstrap uploaded.
<wasabi_> So, you can't build SWT without swttools, and you can't build/use swttools without swqt
<wasabi_> swt
<wasabi_> thanks.
<jbailey> Make sure to pull the version from the archive when updating to get the manpage changes, please.
<wasabi_> swttools isn't actually distributed though, I don't think.
<jbailey> I can poke a friend of mine who works on eclipse.
<wasabi_> Right now I am simply removing it before the build starts, to make sure.
<wasabi_> So !x86 fails.
<doko> wasabi_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/e/ecj-bootstrap/3.0.1-4ubuntu3/ecj-bootstrap_3.0.1-4ubuntu3_20050629-2111-amd64-failed.gz
<doko> please can we keep ecj-bootstrap as solid as possible?
<wasabi_> mmap not implemented?
<wasabi_> what's that?
<wasabi_> doko, there is no way I can test on amd64. ;)
<jbailey> Umm, AFAIK mmap is implemented fine on amd64.
<wasabi_> it's a bug in gcj.
<wasabi_> according to #gcj
#ubuntu-java 2005-07-05
<wasabi> jbailey, did you get ant up?
<wasabi> I notice a reject from this mornig.
<jbailey> wasabi: Can you forward me the reject message?  I left you as the maintainer, so I didn't see it.
<jbailey> (or paste the relevant bits here)
<wasabi> Rejected: ant_1.6.5-0ubuntu1.dsc refers to ant_1.6.5.orig.tar.gz, but I can't find it in the queue or in the pool.
<wasabi> I just got added to the keyring!
<jbailey> Nice!
<wasabi> From: 	James Troup <james@nocrew.org>
<wasabi> Done - sorry for the delay.
<wasabi> yay!
<jbailey> Cool, give it a spin!
<wasabi> DId you get ecj up?
<wasabi> Oh yeah, you did.
<wasabi> It just broke on amd64
<jbailey> If you give me eclipse, I'll look at it on !i386 tomorrow.
<wasabi> putting it togheter now. ;)
<wasabi> Hmm. It suceeded on i386 but never showed up.
<wasabi> Ant appeared in the archive in 10 minutes. ecj-bootstrap still isn't there.
<wasabi> Wonder what causes that.
<wasabi> http://akita.larvalstage.net/~wasabi/ubuntu/eclipse
<doko> wasabi: eclipse-3.1/debian/eclipse-rcp.postinst modifies a file from another package. bad. if we need an update mechanism, it should be in the same packages as gcj-dbtool.
<jbailey> wasabi: g'm.  Is your uploading and such all working now?
<wasabi> yeah
<jbailey> Nice.
<wasabi> Oh nifty. Even though ecj-bootstrap broke on amd64, it's still available on amd64.
<wasabi> Since only the -gcj portion broke, the pure Java part is Arch: all.
<wasabi> Yay for that.
<wasabi> And the -gcj part simply enhances it. Makes it faster. It's not required.
<jbailey> =)
<wasabi> Eclipse 3.1 is going up. So you can play with it. It's still in multiverse though.
<wasabi> But that's fine until all the kinks are worked out.
<jbailey> Well, it would be nice to at least get it shifted to universe.
<wasabi> I am quite confident about this package. I have spent hte last 3 days going over it with a fine tooth comb.
<wasabi> A fine example of cdbs-powered art. ;)
<jbailey> *lol*
<jbailey> How much of it should eventually be rolled into a java module?
<wasabi> whatcha mean?
<wasabi> oh cdbs?
<wasabi> Hmm.
<wasabi> I'm not really that sure. I think we obviously need a dh_gcj or something.
<jbailey> of cdbs / debhelper or whatever.
<wasabi> I think you'll have a good idea when you read it.
<wasabi> =)
<wasabi> I'd like it to be as easy as firing of some dh_* to set up a native gcj version of a package.
<wasabi> So, it needs to scan a certain prefix for jars, and map them to a certain other prefix.
<wasabi> From one package to another.
<jbailey> Can you write the logic out?
<wasabi> I'll have to think about it a bit.
<wasabi> in the meantime->shower/work/etc
<doko> wasabi, jbailey: I disabled -gcj again, maybe a bit too early, but I needed a working package in the archives, and it didn't show up. is there a way to disable one package for an architecture in cdbs?
<jbailey> doko: override DEB_ARCH_PACKAGES and DEB_INDEP_PACKAGES
<doko> did I mention, that I love the cdbs documentation?
<jbailey> doko: Someone has to. =)
<jbailey> doko: Documentation is one of the only things holding up the cdbs2 release.
<jbailey> Although what we have already is much better than cdbs1 had.
<doko> wasabi: I don't like the ecj-bootstrap Recommends: ecj-bootstrap-gcj. did you see my pointer, that ecj is miscompiled?
<wasabi> doko, I know that the dbtool thing is bad.
<wasabi> The script included with j-g-c wasn't suitable though. I will be building a better script/tool.
<doko> wasabi: and why does ecj-bootstrap-gcj depend on ecj-bootstrap?
<wasabi> One is required for the other to work.
<wasabi> ?
<wasabi> The idea is we are going to have the non-native version recommed the native version, so in the default cause, users are using the enhanced gcj version.
<wasabi> Debian will knock the recommends down.
<wasabi> As they don't care very much about the default case. ;)
<wasabi> s/cause/case/
<doko> wasabi: I will knock them down as well, I do not want to recommend a miscompiled ecj
<wasabi> That is being fixed.
<wasabi> It's apparently a GCC bug or something.
<wasabi> jbailey, ?
<doko> wasabi: yes, but it's currently broken.
<doko> wasabi: again, why does ecj-bootstrap-gcj depend on ecj-bootstrap?
<jbailey> doko: Is it causing your grief?  The arch indep one should just work in its place automatically.
<wasabi> Yup. That's the idea.
<wasabi> THe native version isn't REQUIRED, but it's a speed enhancement when it's present.
<doko> jbailey: I don't want users to install the -gcj one now.
<wasabi> Why?
<doko> because it's broken. recommends are installed automatically by synaptic
<wasabi> It's only broken on amd64 though, it works as designed on all other platforms?
<doko> wasabi: AFAIK it's broken on all platforms
<jbailey> doko: The right thing is to extract the patch from gcc CVS head to fix some misdetection causing mmap grief.
<wasabi> Well, it' sin the archive on i386, and works.
<wasabi> And ppc apparently.
<jbailey> What breakage are you seeing?
<jbailey> I haven't tested it on ppc, but I can do so if you'd like.
<doko> again: what's the reason for ecj-bootstrap-gcj Depends: ecj-bootstrap
<wasabi> Gcj native compilation isn't a replacement for the non-native version.
<wasabi> It is a runtime enhancement.
<jbailey> doko: All the -gcj versions should depend on their -non -gcj counterparts.
<wasabi> When the classloader grabs a .class out of the ecj.jar, it looks that .class's hashmap up in the classmap.db
<wasabi> And then loads teh cooresponding .so file if present.
<jbailey> That way you always can run the Java app, even if you try with a non-gij VM.
<wasabi> vs interpreting the code.
<wasabi> The original ecj.jar still has to be present.
<wasabi> Not only that, but the ecj.jar has more than code in it. Resources.
<doko> jbailey: sure, we will have this one with the next gcj upload
<doko> wasabi, jbailey: would you mind writing down things as a policy?
<jbailey> I beleive it's already in the wiki.  That's where Jerry and I did most of the brainstorming.
<jbailey> wasabi: It does present the interesting question of what causes the -gcj version to be installed...  should the depends go the other way?
<jbailey> That has the downside, though, that an arch that can't produce the -gcj for some reason would be uninstallable.
<wasabi> Well, I was banking on synaptic automatically installing -gcj's for users. ;)
<doko> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaRoadmap ?
<doko> no
<wasabi> For buildd's, it doesn't matter as much.
<jbailey> wasabi: Ah. =)
<wasabi> Maybe we didn't write this down. ;)
<wasabi> what happened to JavaIntegration
<jbailey> I thought there was more in there.
<doko> it would be very nice, if we had something as a proposal for a policy ...
<jbailey> Sure.  I'll try to cook something formal-looking up next week.
<doko> you're at debconf?
<jbailey> No.
<doko> would be nice to have something for a bof however ...
<jbailey> I'm moving this weekend, so I'm off the next 4 days, though.
<jbailey> I think it's unlikely that Debian and Ubuntu will converge soon. =(
<wasabi> the Eclipse debacle sort of highlights that. ;)
<wasabi> jbailey, few shells cripts to be shized. ;0
<wasabi> /usr/share/java-common/java-common.sh
<jbailey> Joy. =)
<wasabi> That one definitly. The binary launcher for eclipse and ecj, I don't care. In fact I like them Just Working in bash. ;)
<wasabi> s/binary//
<jbailey> wasabi: wimp. =)
<wasabi> Just, the common component should be sh compatible.
<doko> there are always two sides in a desaster ...
<jbailey> The side that covered their asses and the side that didn't? =)
<wasabi> Of coruse, whichever side I'm on, is right. ;)
<doko> well, introducing conventions without documenting them isn't nice either. hacking all java packages like you did for ecj and eclipse may work for you, but not for Debian. There's a lot of things we can do better in Ubuntu.
<jbailey> RIght, but documenting conventions with no experience just means that things have to be changed afterwards.
<jbailey> That's why Debian Policy reflects current best practice, not the other way around.
<wasabi> jbailey, please grab Eclipse. =)
* wasabi anxious!
<wasabi> me->work()    bbl
<doko> jbailey: please could you have a look chinstrap:~doko/ecj-bootstrap, despite DEB_ARCH_PACKAGES it wants to build the binary package
<jbailey> scp: /home/doko/ecj-bootstrap: No such file or directory
* jbailey looks
<jbailey> ecj-bootstrap*
<jbailey> doko: And the goal is that on amd64 would do not want with_native, right?
<doko> yep
<jbailey> hmm.  That hack ought to be working.  When I test the constructs they work... =(
<jbailey> (GNU Make really is quite annoying)
<jbailey> Erp. It looks like make rules don't lazy evaluate the variables.
<wasabi_> What's that mean?
<wasabi_> Something to do with patsubst? :0
<jbailey> Yeah, doko's trying to override the package list from debian/control.
<jbailey> It hasn't come up in any other packages, but we planned for it.
<jbailey> Usually make variables are lazy evaluated, so you can override them later in the game and have everything work.
<jbailey> But it looks like when variables are used in rules, they're hard evaluated once immediately, not after a full pass of the Makefile has been read.
<jbailey> cdbs2 solves this by putting all the evaluation into the shell and recursing into Make (so causing a reread each time)
<jbailey> cdbs1 doesn't look like it'll have an adequate solution.
<doko> !SESSION 2005-06-30 19:26:39.618 -----------------------------------------------eclipse.buildId=
<doko> java.version=1.4.2_07
<doko> java.vendor=Sun Microsystems Inc.
<doko> BootLoader constants: OS=linux, ARCH=x86, WS=gtk, NL=en_US
<doko> Command-line arguments:  -os linux -ws gtk -arch x86
<doko> !ENTRY org.eclipse.update.configurator 2005-06-30 19:26:42.337
<doko> !MESSAGE /usr/local/share/eclipse/plugins is not a valid plugins directory.
<doko> !ENTRY org.eclipse.core.runtime 2005-06-30 19:26:43.921
<doko> !MESSAGE Product org.eclipse.sdk.ide could not be found.
<doko> !ENTRY org.eclipse.osgi 2005-06-30 19:26:43.930
<doko> !MESSAGE Application error
<wasabi_> Hmmmm.
<doko> !STACK 1
<doko> java.lang.RuntimeException: No application id has been found.
<doko>         at org.eclipse.core.internal.runtime.PlatformActivator$1.run(Unknown Source)
<doko>         at org.eclipse.core.runtime.adaptor.EclipseStarter.run(Unknown Source)
<doko>         at org.eclipse.core.runtime.adaptor.EclipseStarter.run(Unknown Source)
<doko>         at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)
<doko>         at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:39)
<doko>         at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:25)
<doko>         at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:324)
<doko>         at org.eclipse.core.launcher.Main.invokeFramework(Unknown Source)
<doko>         at org.eclipse.core.launcher.Main.basicRun(Unknown Source)
<doko>         at org.eclipse.core.launcher.Main.run(Unknown Source)
<doko>         at org.eclipse.core.launcher.Main.main(Unknown Source)
<doko> wasabi_, you don't see the stack trace?
<wasabi_> I saw it. I am considering it.
<wasabi_> doko, can you mkdir /usr/local/share/eclipse and touch /usr/local/share/eclipse/.eclipseextension
<wasabi_> and just let me know if it fixes it for you
<doko> they exist
<wasabi_> Hmmm.
<wasabi_> Well this is odd.
<doko> owned by root
<wasabi_> readable though, right?
<doko> $ eclipse
<doko> using specified vm: /usr/lib/j2sdk1.4-sun
<doko> yes
<doko> hmm, defaults to the non-free jvm?
<wasabi_> I have to do some thinking about that still.
<wasabi_> If some user manages to get Sun's VM installed... do we want to go ahead and use it? Or make the user edit a config file to switch to it?
<wasabi_> I chose the former for now.
<doko> hmm, why not use gij as the default?
<wasabi_> It does.
<wasabi_> If Sun's isn't installed.
<wasabi_> Check the file /etc/jvm.d/eclipse
<doko> I don't call that a default ;-)
<wasabi_> It needs to be thought about.
<doko> hmm, and it doesn't like the blackdown installation ...
<wasabi_> It should only require /bin/java at the path.
<doko> ah, my mistake. typo in the path
<wasabi_> Ahh!
<wasabi_> I know the problem.
<wasabi_> Hmm. That sucks.
<wasabi_> apt-get install eclipse-sdk
<wasabi_> Hmmmm.
<wasabi_> That's going to have to be thought about.
<jbailey> wasabi_: http://kyoto.larvalstage.net/ubuntu/ seems to have been down all day...
<wasabi_> yeah.
<wasabi_> Luckily you don't need it anymore
<jbailey> You asked me to grab eclipse earlier for ppc testing, I've been trying occasionally.
<wasabi_> archive.ubuntu.com
<wasabi_> doko, can you open /usr/share/eclipse/configuration/config.ini, search for the line that contains org.eclipse.sdk.ide and replace it with org.eclipse.platform.ide
<wasabi_> save, and try to launch.
<doko> yes, that works
<wasabi_> Alrighty.
<wasabi_> Weird. For the life of me I have no idea what eclipse-sdk actually DOES. I suspect it's just a "metapackage" to upstream.
<doko> can you fix the dependency stuff as well?
<wasabi_> Which stuff is that?
<doko> java-gcj-compat-dev in b-d
<wasabi_> You mean add or remove it? It is in b-d
<doko> ahh, remove java-gcj-compat
<doko> -dev is enough
<wasabi_> k
<doko> drop libgcj6-dev, ecj-bootstrap, fastjar as well, these are java-gcj-compat-dev deps
<doko> btw, is it still multiverse?
<wasabi_> Yes.
<doko> why?
<wasabi_> Because I haven't verified that there are any multiverse deps left, and haven't told anybody to move it.
<wasabi_> I suspect it's ready to move.
<doko> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com//UbuntuMainInclusionQueue , what's needed ...
<doko> I assume, you'll have to write one of these reports
#ubuntu-java 2005-07-07
<wasabi> So. This JVM thing. Should I cut out Sun's?
<doko> wasabi: hmm, no, make gcj the default. users should switch manually to one of the non-free jvm's.
<doko> and add /usr/lib/j2se/1.4 (blackdown)
<wasabi> that is non-free.
<dalibor> sun-derived, same crappy license.
<dalibor> (not literally, but same crap that prevents debian from shipping it)
<wasabi> Yup. BLack-down is just Sun's VM. I don't even know what they alter in it.
<dalibor> no idea. 
#ubuntu-java 2005-07-08
<ivoks> hi
<wasabi_> hi
<ivoks> i'm having problems with eclipse in breezy, if this is good place to ask about it
<wasabi_> THe perfect place.
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> well, starting eclipse brings me message A suitable Java Virtual Machine for running the Eclipse platform could not be located
<wasabi_> Hmmm.
<wasabi_> yeah, I can see that happening. We need to figure out a better way of going about that.
<wasabi_> apt-get install java-gcj-compat
<ivoks> i did :(
<ivoks> i have everything
<ivoks> sun java too
<wasabi_> Hmm.
<wasabi_> Check out /etc/jvm.d/eclipse
<ivoks> right
<ivoks> that's it, i guess
<wasabi_> Does that have /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj listed in it?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> but before it it has j2sdk1.5 -> 1.3
<wasabi_> Does /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj exist?
<wasabi_> Yeah.
<wasabi_> That should be fine. It will attempt to use those before it attempts to use java-gcj-compat
<wasabi_> BUt since you don't have those.
<ivoks> i have j2sdk1.4
<wasabi_> Hmm. Is the path right?
<wasabi_> Basically that file lets you choose the VM search oder.
<wasabi_> order
<ivoks> i commented j2sdk, same problem
<ivoks> i could strace it..
<wasabi_> No need.
<ivoks> ok
<wasabi_> run this
<wasabi_> /usr/share/java-common/find_jvm.sh eclipse
<ivoks> JAVA-HOME=
<ivoks> s/-/_
<wasabi_> Hmmm.
<ivoks> that's the problem :)
<wasabi_> what?
<ivoks> JAVA_HOME= should point to java libs, right?
<wasabi_> You should not have to set Java_home at all anywhere.
<wasabi_> It should be working right now.
<wasabi_> paste me the contents of /etc/jvm.d/eclipse
<wasabi_> and the output from dpkg -l java-common eclipse-rcp java-gcj-compat
<wasabi_> Oh. Wait a sec.
<wasabi_> I have a suspician.
<wasabi_> env | grep JAVA_HOME
<wasabi_> send me the output from that
<ivoks> no output
<wasabi_> that's good
<ivoks> it worked before
<wasabi_> That find_jvm command is supposed to scan the files in /etc/jvm and find the first working jvm.
<wasabi_> but it's returning nothing.
<ivoks> yes..
<ivoks> strace shows it drops right after zenity
<wasabi_> strace isn't going to do much for you
<wasabi_> send me the output of those files.
<ivoks> jvm.d?
<wasabi_> It's just one very simple shell script.
<wasabi_> jvm.d/eclipse
<ivoks> query
<ivoks_> sorry about that...
<ivoks> great job! eclipse starts a lot faster now
<wasabi_> thans
<wasabi_> thanks
<wasabi_> wasabi_ doko, what do you think about integrating a update-gcj-classmaps script into gij?
<wasabi_> wasabi_ It doesn't belong in Eclipse, and it doesn't belong in j-g-c
<wasabi_> wasabi_ It belongs with gcj-dbtool.
#ubuntu-java 2006-07-04
<jamisonmc> hi
#ubuntu-java 2006-07-06
<greenpete> Hi! Anyone home?
<grenegar> greetings
<greenpete> Hi there! I was hoping to get some help installing java runtime, can you help please?
<tmarble> yes... at home ;-)
<tmarble> which implementation
<tmarble> ?
<grenegar> for sun jre 'sudo apt-get install sun-java5-jre'
<greenpete> Am I in the right place?
<greenpete> Ok I will try that, though I am struggling with command line stuff!
<greenpete> Thanks!
<tmarble> grenegar: saw you over on #ubuntu-server... is this for intel or sparc?
<grenegar> for sparc
<tmarble> ah... sorry to say we do not yet have Java available for Ubuntu/SPARC
<grenegar> clarify: my posts on #ubuntu-server were for sparc. 
<greenpete> Tells me it cant find package , even though some of it seems to go ok!
<grenegar> greenpete: if you prefer synaptic just search for sun-java5-jre package
<greenpete> ok will try now
<tmarble> arch independent stuff will work, but not the -bin (arch dependent)
<tmarble> thus it is not complete
<tmarble> I am aware of the desire to have Java on Ubuntu/SPARC
<grenegar> ah, i only installed this on i386 with apt-get (or synaptic)
<tmarble> oh.. if you are interested in i386 or amd64 then that's OK...
<greenpete> When you say synaptic, do you mean add/remove?
<greenpete> I have an AMD Athlon
<tmarble> FFI: https://jdk-distros.dev.java.net/ubuntu.html
<grenegar> no, go to System, Adminitration, Synaptic Package Manager
<tmarble> the issue about amd64, of course, is it is the 64-bit server compiler only (i.e. no client stuff like plugin for browsers)
<greenpete> No go with synaptic. the search comes up with nothing :-( Will try https://jdk-distros.dev.java.net/ubuntu.html
<grenegar> greenpete: if you can't find the package in synaptic then you need to add repositories: universe and multiverse
<grenegar> in Synaptic go to Settings, Repositories
<greenpete> Ha ha! It's getting tricky now! I'm following though! :-)
<grenegar> select Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (binary)
<tmarble> yeah.. I tried to simplify the directions fro adding suites... (this will get fixed in Edgy)
<grenegar> hit Edit
<grenegar> select all checks
<grenegar> hit Reload in Synaptic
<grenegar> then search for sun-java5-jre
<greenpete> Waiting for reload....
<greenpete> Still no go in synaptic :-(
<tmarble> at the risk of showing you the really complex instructions... you might look at  https://jdk-distros.dev.java.net/ubuntu-dev.html
<greenpete> Ok. My system is doing all sorts of updates and I'm not sure which I have asked for now! Will try the info you have given me so far and get through all of that, including https://jdk-distros.dev.java.net/ubuntu-dev.html!
<greenpete> Seems to be downloading now! From Add/remove programs.....fingers crossed!
<tmarble> you are on a SS20 (amd64), right?
* tmarble maybe just the amd64 part is right (grenegar had the SS20)
<greenpete> I have an AMD Athlon, if thats what you mean?
<tmarble> yep
<tmarble> oops, no I was wondering if it was an opteron (sorry for the confusion)
<tmarble> wait.. athlon is another marketing name for the consumer version of the opteron... so it should be amd64
<greenpete> I now have it installed acording to add/remove programs, but still I cannot view java in Firefox! :-(
<greenpete> Any thoughts....?
<tmarble> can you copy the output of uname -a here?
<greenpete> ??
<tmarble> from the Accessories menu, choose Terminal
<tmarble> then type: uname -a
<greenpete> Linux Big 2.6.15-25-386 #1 PREEMPT Wed Jun 14 11:25:49 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux
<greenpete> What does all that mean? I know that 'Big' is the name I gave my PC
<tmarble> yep.. Big is your name
<greenpete> And the rest?
<tmarble> in the terminal window type: man uname
<tmarble> for a full explanation
<greenpete> Does it help you with my problem?
<tmarble> so try this... go into Synaptic and search for sun-java5
<tmarble> check the package called sun-java5-plugin
<tmarble> then apply
<greenpete> Ok
<tmarble> after that completes, you will need to exit/restart firefox
<greenpete> Ok
<tmarble> then in the URL window, type: about:plugins
<greenpete> All seems to work!!!! Thanks so much! It seems so complicated or am I just too used to Windows?
<tmarble> whew!
<greenpete> Ha ha!
<grenegar> heh, some things are easier, some still harder.. :)
<tmarble> it's a little bit complicated... the remaining trickiness should go away in the next release of Ubuntu
<grenegar> do you know about Automatix?
<tmarble> you'll be glad to know there's a lot of magic behind the scenes to make all the stuff work that you just did!
<tmarble> nope
<greenpete> I really want to use Linux only but this seems to be too much to have to do all of the time, though I have installed stuff from the add/remove and it has worked but also some things have not worked either!
<greenpete> Whats Automatix
<grenegar> Automatix and EasyUbuntu (just google them) allow you to easily to what we just did plus install audio/video codecs, common apps, etc.
<greenpete> Sounds good! I like the thought that to use Linux you need a brain but I don't like things to be so complicated that I can't get it sorted at all!
<grenegar> some info about automatix: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=177646
<greenpete> Am Googleing! Well Altavistering as Google have been horrible to China!
<grenegar> just use my link instead
<grenegar> here is automatix install instructions: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=190025
<grenegar> it ROX
<grenegar> good luck!
<greenpete> Mmmm looks quite daunting to setup Automatix! Will look into it tomorrow! Goodnight, and thanks a lot for you time!
* tmarble needs to leave... cu later
#ubuntu-java 2006-07-09
<snikker> where i must add external api?
<snikker> in wich directory?
<snikker> no ones know?
<Fridolin5879> hallo
#ubuntu-java 2007-07-02
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-java.log
<hann1bal_de> hey there!
<hann1bal_de> anyone here, who can help me with a java-printing problem under ubuntu 7.04 feisty?
<hann1bal_de> the standart java-api for printing, only prints empty pages, or the postscript-code
<hann1bal_de> I just used suns HelloWorldPrint example
<hann1bal_de> neither my network printer, nor my pdf-printer seem to print anything but emtpy pages
<hann1bal_de> And I havent found anything about that on the net
<man-di> there was some issue regarding Java and CUPS
<hann1bal_de> is there a workaround?
<man-di> I dont remember the solution but you should be able to find it via google
<hann1bal_de> been searching for 3h now, any key-words I might have missed?
<man-di> java cups printing?
<hann1bal_de> hmm okay
<hann1bal_de> thanks
<man-di> http://www.cups.org/articles.php?L433+I0+TFAQ+M10+P1+Q
<hann1bal_de> stills prints empty pages
<hann1bal_de> okay, now it prints the first line of the postscript file...
<hann1bal_de> and 6 more white pages
<hann1bal_de> omg, by removing this line
<hann1bal_de> << /DeferredMediaSelection true /PageSize [595.2755737304688 841.8897705078125]  /ImagingBBox null /ManualFeed false /NumCopies 1 >> setpagedevice 
<hann1bal_de> from the postscriptfile it works...
<man-di> doesnt sound like a preferred solution :-/
<hann1bal_de> not at all, since its gonna be an end-user application
<hann1bal_de> so ps-generation is buggy
#ubuntu-java 2007-07-04
<vdepizzol> hello
<vdepizzol> how can I open the preferences of java-jdk?
<man-di> vdepizzol: what do you mean by preferences?
<priscila> how can i configure java in my ubuntu change for the java6-jdk of Sun
<priscila> ?
<vdepizzol> man-di: that's the question :) ^
<priscila> i've find the comand sudo update-alternatives --config java
<man-di> priscila: aptitude install sun-java6-jdk sun-java6-plugin ; update-java-alternatives --set java-6-sun
<man-di> as root
<priscila> man-di, thank you
#ubuntu-java 2007-07-06
<therealnanotube> anyone here? 
<liox> how to install jdk + eclipse in ubuntu 7.07 ?
#ubuntu-java 2007-07-07
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-java.log
<lagarino> hello
<lagarino> could anybody help with usb interfaces in java?
#ubuntu-java 2007-07-08
<elyezer> hi all
<elyezer> when i use the command  sudo update-alternatives --config java
<elyezer> i get this list
<elyezer>           1    /usr/bin/gij-wrapper-4.1
<elyezer>  +        2    /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj/jre/bin/java
<elyezer> *         3    /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-sun/jre/bin/java
<elyezer> why is the signal + in front of the second item?
<elyezer> i'm in ubuntu-br channel and there is a person that have this list with * and + in front of java-6-sun
<elyezer> someone have any idea?
<DMind> hola
<DMind> mm
<DMind> hola
<DMind> hola
<DMind> aqui no hay nadie?
<DMind> hay alguien aqui?
<man-di> DMind: this is an english speaking channel
<DMind> Oh
<DMind> sorry
<DMind> i am mexican
<DMind> :(
<man-di> welcome here
<DMind> thanks
<DMind> are you manager of this channel?
<man-di> no, and I wonder what do you mean by manager
<DMind> mmm,,,
<man-di> when you have a problem with java in ubuntu just ask
<DMind> i understand
<DMind> problems with Java in Ubuntu I have not had any, opposite, between trying here to help the others
<DMind> I entered here to try to help the others
<man-di> cool
<man-di> thats great
<man-di> currently I'm more or less the only person answering questions here
<DMind> i understand
<DMind> :P
<DMind> I study Sciences of the Computation and since 3 years I have been familiarized with Java 
<DMind> man-di
<DMind> are you good in Java?
<man-di> I do it since 7 years, I'm involved in several free Java projects, I work with Java professionally
<DMind> oh
<man-di> so I think I'm at least acceptable in it ;-)
<DMind> good
<DMind> entiendes espaol?
<man-di> no
<DMind> oh
<man-di> I can teach you german
<DMind> mmm
<DMind> yes
<DMind> for example?
<man-di> hello = Hallo
<man-di> good morning = Guten Morgen
<DMind> and Free Software?
<man-di> my name is Michael = Mein Name ist Michael
<man-di> Freie Software
<DMind> wow
<DMind> wich Java IDE is the better?
<DMind> for you?
<man-di> hehe, I'm Debian/Ubuntu Eclipse maintainer and I work with SUN on packaging Netbeans.
<man-di> but the best IDE for me is still Emacs
<DMind> oh
<DMind> Emacs is the Universal IDE
<DMind> :D
<man-di> its a whole OS
<man-di> Emacs OS
<man-di> what do you prefer?
<DMind> NetBeans
<DMind> for me it is the more confortable
<man-di> we develop Eclipse plugins in our company to help with our development, its the more complete IDE, you can do much more with it
<man-di> NetBeans slowly closes this gap but its still behind
<DMind> I have Eclipse too
<man-di> my personal opinion is that everyone should use the IDE he likes most. diversity is a good thing.
<man-di> monopoly isnt.
<coredx> is this a channel for asking questions about programming in java?
<man-di> no
<man-di> this channel is about packaging java software for Ubuntu Linux
<man-di> you are probably better suited in ##java
<coredx> thank you
#ubuntu-java 2008-06-30
<dholbach> good morning
<karname> i install zendstudio 5.5 in ubuntu when i start this program , i see a blank screen of zend studio , what do i do ?
<safiyyah> i have a headache from trying to set up java on my hardy
<safiyyah> is this the right place?
#ubuntu-java 2008-07-01
 * shazb0t shrugs
<shazb0t> hello all
<dholbach> good morning
<PseudoBob> Hey, anyone in here actually alive?
<slytherin> PseudoBob: state you question
<PseudoBob> Alrighty then.  I was finally able to get javac working and now have a .class file sitting in my home user directory.  The problem is, when I use java helloworld, it returns all sorts of errors.
<persia> PseudoBob: The errors are likely to help you understand the issue with the class file.  That said, you likely want ##java for java help; this channel is more about packaging Java applications for Ubuntu.
<slytherin> PseudoBob: Short answer. Your home directory is not in class path, so you need to do 'java -cp . helloworld'. Long answer: ##java
<PseudoBob> Hm, it says I can't join that channel.
<persia> PseudoBob: You probably have to talk to nickserv and identify
<slytherin> PseudoBob: Your nick need to be registered, if it is not already
<PseudoBob> How does one do that?
<PseudoBob> I'm new here, if you somehow couldn't tell...
<slytherin> PseudoBob: type this message - /msg nickserv help register
<PseudoBob> Alright, thank you very much.
<PseudoBob> Have a nice life.
<persia> PseudoBob: Good luck with your program
<persia> robilad: The week for the meeting is underway.  Have you selected a date?
<robilad> it seems that we don't have a date with no overlap
<persia> No, Just have to pick the best one.  Did you ever get feedback from anyone other than dholbach, slytherin and I?
<robilad> from marek slama, too
<persia> If you can get yourself, slytherin, and mslama at the meeting, that's likely good.  dholbach's interest is likely mostly about team-building and I'm scattered enough that I'm used to reading logs.
<robilad> ok
<robilad> so it looks like wed 4:00 pm utc is the easiest choice
<robilad> from looking at http://www.doodle.ch/participation.html?pollId=fy7xd7hgrd59y7p5
<dholbach> which wed? tomorrow?
<robilad> yes
<dholbach> do we have doko?
<robilad> not yet - doko?
<dholbach> we should have had some small time in advance to announce it publicly
<robilad> ok, then thu ?
<persia> dholbach: Do you think it's worth delaying another week?  I think two weeks is too much, but one could work.
<robilad> 3-4 pm should work, too.
<dholbach> Thursday would be fine too
<dholbach> robilad: do you have any agenda items you'd like to discuss?
<robilad> sure
<dholbach> can you add them to the JavaTeam/Meetings page?
<dholbach> looking at the fridge calendar: thursday looks better
<doko> do we have a meeting?
<dholbach> we're planning to kick off the ubuntu java team and discuss it with interested parties
<persia> doko: We'll start having meetings.  Thursday is the first.
<dholbach> robilad: once we have a rough agenda, I can mail the ubuntu-news-team, ubuntu-devel and do a blog post - I guess that should be a good start
<doko> UTC?
<dholbach> yep
<dholbach> doko: would 16:00 UTC Thursday work for you?
<doko> until September sure
<dholbach> oh, that'd be just for this thursday, then see how we do
<robilad> yep
<dholbach> I'd reckon that having an IRC presence in here (for those that are interested) and meetings every 2 weeks or some such would be good enough
 * robilad invites dholbach, persia, doko, slytherin, man-di etc. to add items to the agenda on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<dholbach> robilad: let me know once you've added a few agenda items - the same goes for everybody else in here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<dholbach> hehe
<dholbach> then I can send out an announce
<robilad> first ;)
<dholbach> the agenda looks very good
 * dholbach updates robilad: will there be other Sun folks who'll join in?/
<dholbach> oops
 * dholbach updates https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Header
<robilad> marek
<robilad> marek slama, he was at uds in praha
<dholbach> right
<robilad> he's a netbeans guy
<dholbach> I remember him :)
<dholbach> doko: anything to add to the agenda?
<doko> dholbach: no
<dholbach> alright
<dholbach> I'll send out the announce then
<dholbach> no mailing list yet, right?
<slytherin> dholbach: I have one thing to add.
<dholbach> slytherin: alright
<slytherin> dholbach: Done. Please see if last item is fit for the meeting.
<dholbach> slytherin: looks good
<dholbach> will send out the announce in a sec
<slytherin> I got to go. See you guys (and gals if any) tomorrow.
<robilad> dholbach: where is the announce sent out to?
 * robilad needs a to susbcribe a few more lists ;)
<dholbach> robilad: ubuntu-devel@ and ubuntu-news-team@ (so they fix the fridge calendar)
<robilad> ok, thanks
<dholbach> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-July/025692.html
<dholbach> will blog about it too
<persia> Is this really the first meeting?  I thought there were a couple in Dapper and Edgy.
<dholbach> does somebody have a java logo somewhere I can use in the post?
<persia> Erm.  Is Duke available for arbitrary badging?
<robilad> https://duke.dev.java.net/
<robilad> duke's under BSD
<robilad> so go wild
<robilad> a duke with a ubuntu ring hula-hooping ;)
<robilad> for example ;)
<dholbach> ok... if there are any gimp specialists, feel free to send me such a pic :-)
<dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/?p=125 is the best I can do with the gimp :-)))
<robilad> heh
<persia> dholbach: Just grab your favorite duke pose then.
<dholbach> check out http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/?p=132 and let me know if it's OK or I should fix something
<dholbach> persia, doko, robilad: ^
<persia> Heh.  Good duke choice
<robilad> thanks, dholbach, looks great!
<dholbach> gracias
<dholbach> let's hope we get lots of interested folks and more hands on deck
<dholbach> can we please update  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Lists/ReferencePackages#Java  ?
<dholbach> I'm sure we have some packages that are good already and could serve as reference
<dholbach> doko: do you know any good java packages that are easily understandable we could add there?
<persia> Part of the issue there is that most of the interesting applications are large and unique, and lots of the rest are libraries.  There aren't a lot of basic apps in the repos yet.
<dholbach> we should really have an "easy app" and "easy module" one
<persia> Hopefully OpenJDK in main lets the right flags be set that this is no longer true for intrepid.
<doko> dholbach: hmm, it shouldn't be too simple ...
<dholbach> doko: just something for orientation
<dholbach> robilad, doko: any package at all you'd recommend?
<robilad> off the top of my head, I think man-di had a few examples for new packagers in debian a while ago, I hope those apply for new ubuntu packagers, too
<robilad> man-di: do you remember the list you gave me? i think commons-cli was on it?
<persia> Packaging for Debian and Ubuntu ought be nigh identical: main differences are icedtea/openJDK related.
<man-di> robilad: I dont remember about that but commons-cli is packaged since a long time
<man-di> we had some trouble with it when we updated it from 1.0 to 1.1
<robilad> man-di: any packages you'd have in mind as 'beginner-friendly' resources for learning about doing it right?
<man-di> robilad: asm3 perhaps
<man-di> we have so much cludge in the packages, nothing is really beginner-friendly
<man-di> and most beginners just miss the basic knowledge about stuff that make our packaging easier, debhelper, cdbs
<chandru_in> hi, can I join the meeting on Thursday without adding my name to the list as I do not have any specific agenda for myself?
<chandru_in> anyone here?
<robilad> chandru_in: sure
<robilad> it's an open IRC channel
<chandru_in> thanks for the clarification robilad
<chandru_in> I hope Java gains strength on top of Ubuntu
 * robilad too
<chandru_in> Anyway was waiting only for the clarification.  Hope to see you guys on Thursday.  Bye.  :)
#ubuntu-java 2008-07-02
<lenards> hello
<dholbach> good morning
 * robilad wonders why launchpad insists on "This account cannot be used."
<persia> robilad: Did you change your email address in LP recently?
<robilad> yeah, got bitten by that bug
<persia> robilad: I understand they're chasing it due to the vast number of affected people, but it's annoying until then :(
<robilad> yeah, so no mails to other java teams from me today about the meetup tomorrow. ;)
<persia> You need LP to send the email?
<persia> Do you maybe need information that I could research on LP for you?
<robilad> no worries, I'll poke robogeek about doing it, he sent me a list of other potential teams that may be interested
 * man-di wonders about what meeting robilad is talking about...
<persia> man-di: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<paddax> hi
<robilad> man-di: do join in, if you have time
<man-di> I'm alwasys in that channel but its bad timing for me
<robilad> ah, darn
<persia> man-di: When are good times for you?  One of the agenda items is setting a regular meeting time, and you're one of the people for whom the meeting time ought be convenient.
<man-di> currently hard to say
 * man-di heading home
<man-di> back online
<Kidfork> How can i allocate RAM to java
<robilad> -Xmx
<Kidfork> - Xmx?
<slytherin> Kidfork: java -Xms128M -Xmx512M
<Kidfork> slytherin: Im not quite understanding what your says, -xmx512m is a command?
<slytherin> Kidfork: it is an argument you need to give while running java command.
<Kidfork> slytherin: Im kind of new to ubuntu could you tell me step-by-step, would be largely apreciated
<slytherin> Kidfork: what are you trying to exactly?
<Kidfork> slytherin: Im trying to give more RAM to java, because i play RuneScape which is constently lagging even though i meet reccomended requirments
<slytherin> Kidfork: have you selected high quality version?
<Kidfork> slytherin: i have not, how can i go about doing this
<slytherin> Kidfork: I am sorry, but not only this is off topic for this channel but also I am busy with something else. You should try asking on #ubuntu.
<Kidfork> slytherin: Just one thing, high quality version of Ubuntu or Java.
<slytherin> Kidfork: high quality when starting ubuntu. And make sure that you have Sun JRE installed from package manager.
<slytherin> Kidfork: oops, I meant 'high quality when starting runescape'
<Kidfork> slytherin: Yes its called "RuneScape HD"
<slytherin> Kidfork: got to go now. I hope someone will help at #ubuntu
 * jamesstansell is happy to hear about the team meeting tomorrow
<jamesstansell> unfortunately I have a prior engagement which will prevent me from attending
#ubuntu-java 2008-07-03
<wrtpeeps> bah. Channel topic rules out my question :D
<dholbach> good morning
<jstansel> good morning
<leetcharmer> hello everyone :)
<robilad> hi leetcharmer, welcome!
<leetcharmer> how are you doing?
<robilad> fine, though it's a bit hot over here in hamburg
<robilad> how about you?
<leetcharmer> heh, I'm in Texas
<leetcharmer> it's CRAZY hot
<leetcharmer> all the time
<robilad> haha
<leetcharmer> at the meeting, are we going to discuss openJDK?
<cody-somerville> \o_
<leetcharmer> I thought the meeting started now, so I dunno if I can make it in an hour, but I would like to kind of hang out with the Java team
<leetcharmer> I'm a new Java developer (I've taken a semester of it in college) and so I'd like to know how it will grow in Ubuntu in the years to come
<robilad> yeah, I wanted to chat a bit about what it would take to get openjdk into main, and hopefully have doko point out what the roadmap for that should be
<leetcharmer> is that already a reality in Hardy? Or is that a Intrepid thing?
<robilad> interpid
<robilad> persia wants to discuss general goals for intrepid, I'd like to look into a few specific things
<robilad> and so on - agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting , if there is something you want to contribute to, please add yourself to it.
<leetcharmer> well, since it begins in an hour, rather than now -- I might not be able to really contribute, but I'll have a look :D
<robilad> thanks!
<robilad> and feel free to discuss things you care about here, too ;)
<leetcharmer> cool -- well first off, I have some questions about OpenJDK
<leetcharmer> like ... is it the regular JDK .. but GPL'd? or are there significant differences in how I need to program with the JDK
<leetcharmer> like ... is there no longer: System.out.println();
<robilad> it's the regular JDK under the GPL.
<leetcharmer> okay, so does that mean they will begin to phase out the, I guess -- commercialized JDK?
<yuriy> well, the next version of the regular JDK under GPL, so there'll be a few things added and nothing removed
<robilad> leetcharmer: no phasing out - it's an additional option for us free software people - for those that don't care about the freedoms, the regular proprietary download will remain.
<robilad> the developer community around openjdk is a bit different from the average windows applet game user, basically.
<robilad> and the latter users would likely find it quite scary to see the commercialized JDK phased out for a GPLd one.
<mslama> openjdk is in hardy already
<robilad> yep
<lenards> they make some residual coin off applications written w/ the commercialized JDK
<robilad> in universe, atm.
<lenards> so I don't think they'd want to phase it out from a business sense
 * robilad waves at mslama, great to see you again, marek!
<leetcharmer> but shouldn't the gpl one have the same power as the commercialized one?
<leetcharmer> and the same code will compile in either version?
<lenards> good question
<leetcharmer> I don't understand the point in keeping both available if they both are basically the same
<rivasdiaz_> they are not the same yet
<rivasdiaz_> the propietary one has some providers that the open one does not have
<rivasdiaz_> the (in)famous 5%
<persia> They will likely converge, but one will come with a fancy installer, and corporate backing (and maybe some patented bits)
<lenards> rivasdiaz_: also, aren't they going to allow opensource devs to maintain/modify the framework classes?
<leetcharmer> is it a necessary 5%?
<lenards> I'd love it if they'd get rid of some of the things like all the CORBA support...
<leetcharmer> I dunno what CORBA is
<lenards> I mean - there would be some advantage to having it be a subset
<rivasdiaz_> well, most software will not notice the difference, but some will. I can run all my code with openjdk
<lenards> CORBA is the component object request broker architecture (think that's the acro) ... it was an architecture that wasn't fallen out of favor with many (most)
<slytherin> lenards: that can be handled in packages right?
<rivasdiaz_> but for example SNMP code is not available in openjdk
<robilad> leetcharmer: the 5% have been replaced for openjdk6/7 with free software code, and that will be the code going forward for openjdk - but some companies building their own JDKs may prefer the old code, as they had a lot more exprience with it, for example with the font rasterizer sun had to rewrite for openjdk.
<leetcharmer> that's interesting
<rivasdiaz_> lenards: well, openjdk is GPL, so nobody have to ask sun...
<lenards> slytherin: I have no clue... maybe... I'm a n00b to this sort of team/activity like this
<leetcharmer> so -- does Java not support font vectorizing then?
<lenards> rivasdiaz_: ya - exactly, that's what I mean
<slytherin> lenards: By the way, GPL essentially means that any distribution can decide which pieces to compile and package.
<leetcharmer> that could be good :) less size to take up when it comes prepackaged :)
<persia> Well, there's a strong argument for consistency, as app authors would prefer a stable target
<robilad> lenards: at JavaOne this year, in the talk about Java7 features, there was a discussion of having different profiles - desktop/enterprise/headless - and using the upcoming module support to modularize the JDK itself.
<lenards> robilad: I heard that, I thought it was quite interesting
<robilad> it is ;)
<leetcharmer> yea, I think having different stacks will be a good idea
<leetcharmer> I think in Intrepid, they will have a tomcat stack :)
<rivasdiaz_> lenards: ubuntu can include patches that sun don't... now what extra patches ubuntu includes, or if they are going to use the TCK is what we need to know to trust them
<robilad> the talks are online now, including the PDFs
<robilad> and recordings
<leetcharmer> that will include everything you need to make webapps
<leetcharmer> :D
<lenards> slytherin: ya - that's sort of my point in bringing up of the removal of CORBA stuff - I'm not a wonk on licenses, but I figure there is plenty of leeway given the GPL
<robilad> http://developers.sun.com/learning/javaoneonline/j1sessn.jsp?sessn=TS-6271&yr=2008&track=javase
<slytherin> leetcharmer: tomcat has been in Ubuntu for long time.
<leetcharmer> slytherin, that is true, but you still have to install the JDK separately and then export the JAVA_HOME variables
<leetcharmer> and stuff
<robilad> basically, the problem with removing things in a not-well-defined way, as persia says, is that it means other people's code won't work.
<slytherin> leetcharmer: so?
<leetcharmer> slytherin, it's a lot of un-fun config stuff for a person who just wants to begin programming
<robilad> so you need to agree on profiles between different JDK7 implementations, so that an application asking for an enterprise profile can rely on, say, CORBA.
<slytherin> leetcharmer: I hardly think a person who just wants to begin programming will need tomcat.
<leetcharmer> Google's IO conference this year addresses a similar problem with developers.  They introduced the Google App Engine for people who didn't want to go through the hassle of configuring your own LAMP stack.  Just program, deploy, and go :)
<leetcharmer> and I think Ubuntu should offer similar ease :)
<leetcharmer> let developers be developers, and admins be admins :D
<lenards> slytherin: I agree... and if they want to dabble and play, they're likely looking at groovy or python or something
<leetcharmer> slytherin: you may be true, but for someone who wants to begin building, say -- Alfresco plugins, they will need to configure tomcat
<leetcharmer> and the Alfresco plugins will be from Java code
<slytherin> leetcharmer: I can understand configuring tomcat part but I don't see why it is so hard. You just need to set a environment variable.
<leetcharmer> I just think it should be a little more streamlined is all.
<lenards> the meeting start in 27 minutes - right?
<leetcharmer> I mean, that's why Ubuntu made a lamp stack in their server fork, right?
<leetcharmer> to streamline the process
<leetcharmer> and get to what matters most?
<lenards> or have we started?
<leetcharmer> lenards, haven't started yet
<lenards> it's not 16:00 UTC yet eh?
<persia> leetcharmer: It's an iterative process.  If you're passionate about integration, please help review the current state, and see what can be done to create more integration.
<lenards> leetcharmer: thanks
<persia> lenards: It's 15:35UTC, and the meeting is in #ubuntu-meeting
<lenards> afk for 20 min
<lenards> persia: sweet - thanks
<leetcharmer> persia: where would I begin?
<persia> leetcharmer: Investigate the packages that you seek to have integrated.  Determine what changes might help them to be more integrated.  Propose patches to achieve these changes.
<leetcharmer> persia: sounds complicated .. I've never messed with packages before
<persia> leetcharmer: It is complicated, which is why it's not done yet :)  There's lots of docs online; both the Ubuntu and Debian wikis are good places to start.
<leetcharmer> wow ... might be over my head at the moment :D but I'll add it to the todo list after ya know ... learning Java :D
<leetcharmer> and participating with the Ubuntu Java group :D
<thielmann> What I would need is some advise from people already building packages from java based software. Especially some "best practise" on how to integrate maven/ant based build-scripts, patches and some examples for packaged libraries. I still don't know if libraries are packaged as jar-files or compiled with GCJ.
<thielmann> I found some informations from the debian project a while ago. But I'm not sure if this still matters with OpenJDK.
<persia> thielmann: That's a good idea.  I'll see if MOTU School would be willing to have a class on Java packaging.
<thielmann> persia: Thanks!
<leetcharmer> persia: that would be VERY good!
<persia> thielmann: leetcharmer: Sessions requested (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Requests).
<dholbach> Ubuntu Java team meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now
<dholbach> doko, robilad, slytherin, persia: ^
<robilad> thanks, dholbach, please kick off the proceedings
<lenards> persia: voted for both requests
<doko> why not here? ...
<leetcharmer> ???
<persia> doko: Reduces schedule conflicts.
<slytherin> leetcharmer: hmm. /join #ubuntu-meeting
<leetcharmer> slytherin: I'm already in there :D
<slytherin> leetcharmer: Sorry, that was not really for you
<leetcharmer> slytherin: fair 'nuff :)
<lenards> I have some questions about that want to help and participate - but haven't done anything like this before (packaging etc)... as chandru_in said #ubuntu-meeting, I'm a java developer - not a debian packager
<lenards> I'm rather excited about the MOTU session that was requested earlier as something that might get me up to speed... but I'm feeling like a complete noob after being in the meeting
 * slytherin has to leave. Will join in half hour.
<persia> lenards: I'll recommend looking at either bugs in Java packages or multiverse->universe issues as a way to get familiar.
<persia> While classes can help build expertise, working with several packages and getting a feel for them can also be helpful.
<lenards> okay
<persia> Also, if you have general packaging questions, and nobody has an answer here, you can also ask on #ubuntu-motu, although not everyone there knows either Java or Java packaging.
<lenards> I'm part of the us-az loco - and some of the guys give me reading links for getting some background on packaging
<lenards> I guess I can looking at bugs and such - but I don't fully grasp what issues would be derived from the multiverse->universe that you're talking about
<persia> lenards: Generally multiverse contains packages that are not completely free, have a dependency on something not completely free, or have a build-dependency on something not completely free.
<persia> Packages in multiverse cannot be considered for inclusion on CDs for this reason (although technically some of the contents might be OK to put on CDs, but it's easier to have one rule).
<lenards> okay - so they're licensing issues forces them to not be included
<robilad> (or are really hard to build from source without good maven2 support)
<lenards> so what's an example of a multiverse->universe issue?
<lenards> just to get an idea ...
<persia> To get packages from multiverse to universe, one has to investigate the license for the package to make sure it is actually free, then investigate the dependencies (maybe adjusting them and testing to make sure there is no impact), and then checking build-dependencies to ensure it can build with only packages in universe.
<persia> Many packages don't build cleanly without a non-free Java right now, which is part of the problem.
<persia> Others don't build sanely at all, or require strange things to build.
<persia> During an investigation of these issues, one is bound to learn a fair bit about the structure of the packaging, the interrelationships between packages, and basic package workflows.
<lenards> ya - the first thing I do when I install is rip out gcj because it's troublesome
<persia> batik is an example package that is stuck in multiverse.  Slytherin has been chasing that one for the past 6 months or so, you might ask for details in about half an hour.
<lenards> persia: true - but it seems like you'd need a particular knowledge/tool set to do that investigation to begin with
<persia> gcj is troublesome, but it's free.  We can hope that we get more free compilers as time passes, and can get more things into universe.
<lenards> but being in the multiverse makes it's available - that's what I don't get...
<lenards> so you can install it
<persia> lenards: The key licensing knowledge is http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines, and the primary tools are a text editor and a build environment.
<persia> You can install it, but you may not be able to use it for some things, or it may be difficult to support.
<persia> For everything in universe, we have the source, know we can build from source, know we have permission to change the source, and know that we can distribute it to anyone to use for any purpose.
<lenards> so you're saying that if you're writing an application with these packages as dependencies, you are dooming your application to a small usage-base because of the dependency choices you've made (because you'll be banished to the multiverse and can't be included in the universe)?
<lenards> okay... to maintenance is a key issue - cool, I get it a little better know
<persia> lenards: No, I'm saying we've some work to do to improve our free compilers and libraries (OpenJDK is huge chunks of this) to get the multiverse libraries into universe and make Java more attractive for distro development.
<lenards> I work w/ tapestry 4.* and BeanForm's life has been extended by being included with the Tacos components
<lenards> okay - so what's holding packages in the multiverse is the licenses with which the source is released?
<lenards> or the ability to build the source with free compilers and free versions of various dependencies?
<persia> Mostly the latter, although there are a couple packages with problematic licenses that compound it.
<persia> The transition mostly consists of porting and testing.
<persia> We repeat it enough times, eventually things work, or we determine why they don't, chase down that chain, and find a solution.
<lenards> so getting a robust, stable toolset (openjdk) is the best thing could ever have happened?
<lenards> I just started teaching myself maven2 yesterday to prep for this
<persia> It changes the landscape considerably.  gcj-classpath is good, but often not enough.
<lenards> I've done a good chunk of lifecycle, build process stuff for a .net shop I worked for...still consult for them
<lenards> so the topics aren't too alien - just the tools are familiar to me ... other than ant is a superset of msbuild
<thx1138> (interesting conversation, I was quietly listening ... but I have to go)
<thx1138> see you
<lenards> thx1138: see you
<lenards> hmm - I think I understand a bit more persia
<lenards> I was just a litle lost in the meeting
<lenards> like the comments about swing and qt vs gtk peers
<persia> lenards: Understandable.  We had a short time, and lots of topics to cover.
<lenards> I haven't code swing in a long time - but my understanding is that swing does not have a peer-based relationship to the underlying widgets provided by the window manager
<lenards> ya - I mean, I'd love to help - I'm here, willing to work - but I'm totally a greenhorn p.i.t.a. that's just lost at the moment
<persia> swing is the standard Java UI component, and the peers are alternate widget implemenations to use widgets from the selected widget set rather than the swing native widgets.
<lenards> okay - so when the specify look-n-feel of qt for kde is used, it's all ghetto and crappy looking
<persia> The more hands the better.  idle here, and ask questions.  Review bugs that either you find, or others report to LP.  when you've some free time, take a look at what's left in multiverse.  You'll learn :)
<lenards> when you say 'review bugs' - that's the bugs lists on launchpad.net, right?
<persia> Without peers, the visual experience is not well integrated.  With appropriate peers, it looks identical to something designed for that environment.
<lenards> is there was way to filter out just the java ones and such
<lenards> ya - w/o peers it's the metal l&f
<persia> No filter for Java, but if you pick a library or application you know that is written in Java, it's sure to be a Java bug.
<lenards> but that's still viewed as offense?  I've been working on the server-side the last 7 years or so
<lenards> eer s/offense/offensive/
<persia> offensive?  I don't understand.
<lenards> well - people don't like the look-n-feel
<lenards> they prefer an integrated look to their window-mgr
<lenards> is what I mean
<lenards> I was never really bothered by the metal look-n-feel
<persia> lenards: If you don't mind metal, pick something else.  Best to find some area that interests you, and focus there.
<lenards> okay
<lenards> you've resolved my questions re the desktop/look-n-feel
<lenards> from above... the place to review bugs is the launchpad bugs on the ubuntu project, correct?
<robilad> persia: man-di suggested 14 utc
<persia> robilad: Works for me.  Do you want to send an announcement to the team & update the wiki?
<robilad> do we have a list for the team/announcements?
<persia> I think so: let me check.
<robilad> thanks
<lenards> from above... the place to review bugs is the launchpad bugs on the ubuntu project, correct? or is there another bug repository to look at?
<robilad> infra was a topic i forgot to add
<persia> I guess that didn't come with the TeamPack dholbach set up.  As long as we don't have too much traffic, we can probably use ubuntu-devel@ for now.
<lenards> sorry to intterupt
<robilad> ok
<persia> lenards: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs or https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/$(packagename)/+bugs
<slytherin> do we really need any mailing list? Isn't this channel sufficient?
<lenards> wasn't sure if it was https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-java either
<persia> slytherin: Well, nice to tell people when we're having meetings and the like, as some people might be away for 30 minutes :)
<slytherin> for that ubuntu-devel is fine I guess.
<dherron> especially those who don't use IRC so frequently
<dherron> and aren't on ubuntu-devel
<persia> lenards: That's bugs to which the team is subscribed.  While it likely lists interesting bugs, it won't ever be all of them.
<persia> dherron: Do you think we should request a separate mailing list then?
<slytherin> By the way, is java team subscribed to any bugs by default?
<dherron> I think so.. I'm also curious, I found four teams on launchpad about Java and which of them are we using?
<persia> I think we should use ubuntu-java, as it has a good name.  I'll investigate the remainders, and see if I can't organise a merge.
<persia> For now, I'm not sure we need the LP group for anything other than reservation of namespace.
<dherron> I found: ubuntu-java, motujava, myjavateam and openjdk
<dherron> 'myjavateam' should probably be excised and motujava+ubuntu-java is a good merger candidate (I think)
<slytherin> dherron: openjdk is for those who hack on jdk. motujava is I guess redundant.
 * robilad agrees with dherron
<dherron> slytherin, yeah +1
<slytherin> hey, ubuntu-java already has mailing list on launchpad.
<persia> I don't think we can eliminate myjavateam, but I'll chat with the owner of motujava and see about a merge.
<persia> We do?  I heard that Ubuntu teams were supposed to use @lists.ubuntu.com mailing lists.
<robilad> thanks, persia
<slytherin> persia: oh then leave it for now.
<persia> slytherin: We'll have to poke doko about it sometime: he's the team admin.
 * slytherin dances with joy. batik 1.7 built. :-D
<jstansel> cool - I've never seen so many people here before!
<jstansel> I've been helping people in the ubuntu forums, and the #1 java problem reported there is with the applet
<jstansel> most of them are happy when we help them switch to sun-java6-plugin
<jstansel> I assume the main issue is the javascript bridge, but some have needed signed applets
<jstansel> many we don't find out their exact problem because they just want their browser to work and they get it by switching to sun-java6
#ubuntu-java 2008-07-04
<dholbach> good morning
<jstansel> sweet!  http://fitzsim.org/blog/?p=28
#ubuntu-java 2008-07-05
 * jstansel wonders how much it would take to compile a gcjwebplugin with --enable-liveconnect, starting from scratch using the mercurial tip?
<jstansel> I am assuming that hg clone http://icedtea.classpath.org/hg/icedtea6 gets the tip
<jstansel> drat - make failed to build rt.jar - "GetWindowPluginCallRequest cannot be resolved to a type"
<jstansel> I'll have to try again another time
<jstansel> http://identi.ca/jstansel has a little more detail of my attempt
<acuster> any logs from the irc meeting?
<maxb_> I think I saw some minutes somewhere
<maxb_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-July/025706.html
<jstansel> acuster: the meeting was also archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/07/03/%23ubuntu-meeting.html (you'll have to scroll down to it)
<jstansel> good morning robilad
#ubuntu-java 2008-07-06
<akhil_> When I try to open a jnlp file ( http://www.topcoder.com/contest/aren...ppletProd.jnlp ) I get the following error messasge:
<akhil_> netx: Launch Error: Could not launch JNLP file. (java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException null) (java.lang.SecurityException Changing the SecurityManager is not allowed.)
<akhil_> I am using Ubuntu 8.04.
<rivasdiaz> akhil_: the address is not complete so I couldn't download the JNLP to verify it, but it seems like a security problem. "Changing SecurityManager is not allowed" tell me that the java application is trying to instantiate a new SecurityManager which is not possible under JNLP 'cause there is a SecurityManager already instantiated
<kroiz> Hi, I am tring to import org.antlr.runtime to my simple java program and I am given the message that the package does not exist.
<kroiz> I added to my $CLASSPATH all the jars that I located with antlr.
#ubuntu-java 2009-06-29
<kboi> g'day room
<kboi> I'm trying to build a couple of debs, but I find the informations on the wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/KnownledgeBase/ a bit limited. Can anyone point me to couple of links I could read? I haven't got any experience with deb packaging, but I've got some experience with rpms
<ttx> kboi: if you're unfamiliar with Debian packaging, I'd suggest starting by https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<ttx> The JavaTeam notes assume basic Debian packaging knowledge
<kboi> yeah, that's what I'm on right now, thanks
<KingWilliam> Hi people
<KingWilliam> I recently made this little jar file witch you can use to send messages to the new notification system in Ubuntu
<KingWilliam> Now I think I should share it. Where should I put it?
<mhall119|work> KingWilliam: launchpad?
<KingWilliam> hmmm...
<KingWilliam> maybe.
<maxb> KingWilliam: do you know bzr?
<KingWilliam> yeah
<maxb> then launchpad seems ideal
<KingWilliam> ok thx
<KingWilliam> will people find it easily if I put it there?
<maxb> KingWilliam: though, I feel like I should point out, that the backend for sending the messages isn't new
<KingWilliam> I was also thinking about google code and sourceforge
<maxb> Presumably your package uses libdbus-java ?
<KingWilliam> Is there one already? I could not find it when I needed ut :P
<KingWilliam> nope it doesnt :P
<maxb> what then?
<KingWilliam> I just execute the send-notify command
<maxb> oh
<maxb> Sorry to say that personally I would not use a library if I could get the same results with a simple bit of ProcessBuilder code myself
<KingWilliam> maybe
#ubuntu-java 2009-07-01
<jacqolive> HI
<jacqolive> Does anyone know how to get involved with developing for Ubuntu in java?
<mhall119|work> jacqolive: probably bug triaging is a good place to start
<mhall119|work> then bug fixing or packaging
<mhall119|work> I know there's a java packaging push going on
<jacqolive> mhall119|work: thanks, would launchpad be the place to get involved in this or is there some other place that i can have a look at?
<maxb> What exactly do you want to get involved in?
<maxb> Writing new things in Java for Ubuntu? Packaging more Java software for Ubuntu? Improving the packaging of Java software already in Ubuntu?
<maxb> Launchpad is likely to figure heavily in doing *anything* Ubuntu related, but it's more a tool, than a place to communicate
<maxb> jacqolive: ^
<jacqolive> maxb: i would like to develop new things in java for ubuntu
<maxb> I'm not very familiar with the "new features" process, but I think early discussion of the things you want to create, such that you work out a rough specification, is important, and you'll want to have a look at the launchpad blueprints system. The ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing lists or #ubuntu-devel IRC channel seem like good places to air an initial idea and solicit pointers about where best to discuss it further
#ubuntu-java 2009-07-02
<ttx> persia: java team meeting ? I'm late :)
<npasque> hi to all
<npasque> i need a way to get an unique id of my system...how can i got it?
<maxb> npasque: Depends on your definition of "unique"
<npasque> maxb: unique based on my system (os + hardware)...finally i opt for MAC Address
<Plexus1> hi there
<Plexus1> got 2 problems...
<Plexus1> one i dunno if its from java or ubuntu... so I hope this chan can help me
<Plexus1> im trying to parse so called umlaute (Ã¤Ã¶Ã¼) which are special chars in german from a file
<Plexus1> but they are just cut out by my application
<Plexus1> the other thing is regarding eclipse...
<Plexus1> i debuged the application to see the values of variables but all i got for the values is something like " (id=9)"	
<Plexus1> HARLOW?!?!
<Plexus1> any1 there?
<mhall119|work> Plexus1: the umlaute is probably a unicode issue
<mhall119|work> you're trying to read it from a file?
<Plexus1> yes...
<Plexus1> mhall119|work: strange thing is that in a prior project i had no problems with those umlauten
<maxb> Sounds like a plain Java (not Ubuntu specific) character set issue
<maxb> When you read from the file, how do you do it?
<Plexus1> BufferedReader rohdaten = new BufferedReader(new FileReader(new File(input)));
<maxb> Plexus1: java has a concept of a default character encoding. Worst idea ever imo.
<maxb> Don't use it. Always specify the character encoding that's actually correct
<maxb> Specifically use a differnent FileReader constructor
<Plexus1> other way would be to change the textfiles charset
<Plexus1> done that now that are not just cut anymore
<Plexus1> but an Ã¶ gets ÃÂ¶
#ubuntu-java 2009-07-04
<avalutions> hi, anyone active?
<avalutions> trying to work with CORBA and need some help if anyone is able/willing
<avalutions> anyone?
#ubuntu-java 2010-07-07
<Leonardo_> Hola
#ubuntu-java 2010-07-08
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> is there a way to run the log4j appender at a specified time and not as usual midnight ?
#ubuntu-java 2010-07-09
<ghost_> hi all
<ghost_> I'm getting this error when trying to build an app: A required class is missing: org/apache/maven/archiver/MavenArchiveConfiguration
<ghost_> how can i resove this? any help is appreciated
<ghost_> i tried mvn install but no luck
#ubuntu-java 2012-07-03
<deDarter> hello
<deDarter> somone here, working with servlets?
<deDarter> have a problem with runing a servlet on tomcat...
<deDarter> nobody any ideas?
#ubuntu-java 2012-07-04
<MarkoJava660> hhelo
<MarkoJava660> Can someone explain JAVA SWING the license
<MarkoJava660> I can pack everything into one SWING libraryes JAR?
#ubuntu-java 2012-07-07
<elliot__> hello ?
#ubuntu-java 2017-07-06
<mrh4ck> hi
#ubuntu-java 2020-07-05
<monge> any one here?
