#ubuntu-uk 2010-11-18
<jgjones> Hmm as you get older you still don't get enough sleep...kids make sure of that.
<Waffle> jgjones,  hum i ;like nightclubs (a bit noisy tho)
<BigRedS> isn't 'noisy' part of the point?
<Waffle> BigRedS,  kinda
 * BigRedS feels old
 * Waffle feels young
<popey> AlanBell: fill yer boots
<Waffle> it goes ding by the way
<Waffle> will MSN run in wine
<popey> try it and see
<BigRedS> Waffle: I don't think that's something many people would have tried
<Waffle> BigRedS,  i guessed that
<AlanBell> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f384/browsertest.htm not in the Ubuntu font yet :(
<ikonia> Waffle: did you go by any other nicknames in the past ?
<Waffle> ikonia,  i really don't want to talk about this in this channel, is there another channel we can talk in?
<ikonia> errr why ?
<ikonia> if you feel it's an issue, just send me a pm
<Waffle> ikonia,  i'll continue with this topic via PM
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/ | Mailing List: http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 23rd November 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 â
 * BigRedS complains that the party's in London
<ikonia> Waffle: ok
<evilchristel> AlanBell: we missed noel gallagher visiting our fine town earlier! all my girlfriends are raving about how he was shopping in the guitar village!
<evilchristel> (i felt very embarrassed to have to wikipedia him to work out who they were talking about) :s
<evilchristel> hi ikonia btw :)
<ikonia> evilchristel: your back !
<AlanBell> evilchristel: I wouldn't recognise him (or care) but I am sure those who saw were suitably impressed!
<AlanBell> I can't deop myself
<evilchristel> apparently very much so, to the extent that they've all developed a sudden interest in guitars it seems
<evilchristel> ikonia: oh im usually hiding somewhere :0
<DJones> AlanBell: Is that better
<AlanBell> thanks
<popey> AlanBell: http://ubunt.eu/ where'd that come from!?
<ikonia> evilchristel: it's nice to actually SEE you though
<AlanBell> popey: I was thinking of registering it a while back, and it was already there!
<evilchristel> ikonia: <3
<evilchristel> and you m'dear
<ikonia> working my arms just for you at the moment ;)
<shauno> shame there's no .tu in 3166
<evilchristel> ...
<evilchristel> ..
<popey> \o/ dots
<evilchristel> er sorry
<czajkowski> evilchristel: I miss cutie hugs
<ikonia> evilchristel: been enjoying watching wunder kind's progress
<ikonia> kinde ?
<Pendulum> evilchristel: hey! haven't seen you around in ages :)
<AlanBell> Pendulum: evilchristel came to the Farnham Fireworks
<Pendulum> AlanBell: that's because y'all are actually local to each other. When I live in the area, I'll go to the Farnham Fireworks too :P
<evilchristel> hehe
<AlanBell> that would be lovely
<evilchristel> czajkowski: he misses you to! come visit
<evilchristel> ikonia: good! he's lush! :D are you still sober or did you fall off the wagon? :P
<evilchristel> and halloooo Pendulum
<Waffle> what is a good frame by frame animation maker for linux?
<czajkowski> evilchristel: yes
<Waffle> anyone
<AlanBell> !info pencil
<lubotu3> pencil (source: pencil): animation/drawing software. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.4.4b-0ubuntu3 (maverick), package size 508 kB, installed size 1264 kB
<ikonia> evilchristel: still sobre
<ikonia> sober
<evilchristel> i say!
<Waffle> AlanBell,  does it do .jpeg importation
<evilchristel> i was going to suggest beers when im next in the west country.. but we can meet for a protein shake instead?
<AlanBell> Waffle: no idea, tell me when you find out.
<ikonia> evilchristel: we can do beers, I'm allowed to drink again now, just not had a reason
<evilchristel> ooh :D
<evilchristel> excellent!
<ikonia> too easy to not drink at the moment after so long off
<popey> how long?
<popey> 13 weeks is the longest I've gone without booze
<ikonia> popey: in honesty, I've forgot exact dates, as it was only supposed to be a month, but I'm easy over 3
<popey> neat
<daubers> popey: 2.5 years longest I've done (stupid antidepressants)
<ikonia> once I'd gone over $X I just forgot about it, so didn't drink because I'd forgot to
<daubers> ikonia: That seems to last too
<Waffle> AlanBell,  yup it does do .jpeg imports, thanks allot XD
<ikonia> daubers: yeah, I don't want a drink, but I can now comfortably have one
<ikonia> evilchristel: although a shake is always welcome if you want a gym session first !
 * Waffle could do with a drink of beer
<daubers> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11790715 I see you can't use SVN in china anymore if you get arrested for "inciting subversion"
<popey> daubers: http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<daubers> \o/
<evilchristel> ikonia: i dont know about want.. need on the other hand! :)
<Waffle> i can't figure this out
<evilchristel> alcohol is curious to me these days, having not had any for 16 months it takes half a glass of red wine to turn me into a giggling schoolgirl-esque daftie
<Waffle> how do i import a .hpeg into kToon
<Waffle> anyone
<Waffle> ?
<Waffle> *jpeg
<Waffle> anynyone know?
<Waffle> anyone/
 * Waffle is waiting
<MartijnVdS> !wait
<lubotu3> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
 * AlanBell notes that it is home time/cooking sprogs dinner time for most people
<BigRedS> The commuting hour
<BigRedS> and, again, I'm at work to see it :(
 * screen-x lurks but know nout about animation
<AlanBell> !info ktoon
<lubotu3> ktoon (source: ktoon): 2D animation toolkit. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.8.1-4.1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 2480 kB, installed size 6136 kB
<AlanBell> presume that is a kde app
<Waffle> AlanBell,  thats right
<AlanBell> someone in #kubuntu might know it, I can't be bothered to install all the dependencies
<screen-x> Waffle: <guess>dragondrop, file>import? </guess>
<MartijnVdS> drag & drop..
<MartijnVdS> you do that with dragons now? :)
<screen-x> in soviet wales, dragons drop you
<daubers> In the Red Valley is it now boyo?
<MartijnVdS> Wales has fallen to the commies?
<daubers> I just can't seem to hear a welsh accent saying "Now Comrade, to arms!"
<Waffle> *sigh8 no help ther
<Waffle> there
<ikonia> because your banned
<Waffle> ikonia,  i didn't do anything i just joined and poof you come along
<ikonia> Waffle: because your banned under other nicknames, as you know
<ikonia> Waffle: so don't play dumb
<Waffle> ikonia, i know but this is a new kick i may have changed since then
<ikonia> Waffle: lets not discuss this here - you know you've not changed, I explained to you in PM, you know you're banned, so don't try, lets keep it simple
<Waffle> ikonia,  when will i be allowed back in?
<evilchristel> cor, it excites me when you're being strict!
<evilchristel> but now i must marinade some meat
<evilchristel> (!)
<popey> is that a euphamism?
<ikonia> ha ha ha
<Waffle> evilchristel,  i hate it when she is strict
 * popey chuckles ... she
<Waffle> popey,  exactually, i said that on superpose
<ikonia> popey: he knows I'm a he, it's one of his trolls to call me she
<Waffle> once again psycho  guy is right
<popey> Waffle: be nice
<popey> Waffle: keep this up and you'll get kicked/banned again
<Waffle> popey,  me and ikonia need to make up to etch other to make the world a happy place
<popey> or.. just stop being a dick.
<MartijnVdS> (or stop acting like you're 12)
<Waffle> popey,  thats also an option
<popey> it's the favourable option IMO
<Waffle> MartijnVdS,  i am 12 plus 1 year
<AlanBell> #uksnow next week or so they think
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Snow? Already?
<Waffle> it hasn't even snowed yet (in the UK)
<MartijnVdS> Waffle: I believe AlanBell is trying to say it's going to next week
<AlanBell> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20101118/tuk-snow-warning-britain-set-for-winter-45dbed5.html
<Waffle> MartijnVdS,  well we'll have to wait and see
<screen-x> it was #uksnow that pursuaded me to join twitter :)
<Waffle> screen-x, i think i'm on twitter
<popey> i might have to get a survival kit for my car I think
<MartijnVdS> snow chains
<gord> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/11/alternative-to-200-lines-kernel-patch.html - interesting
<screen-x> popey: What would you include in a survival pack?
 * popey bets thats lennarts "patch" before clicking it
<MartijnVdS> it is
<popey> screen-x: lets see... http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/CarSurvivalKit
<czajkowski> snow....
<czajkowski> it's only novemeber :(
<gord> snow? i like snow!
<gord> snow is the only reason i let winter exist at all
<BigRedS> I like snow when I'm allowed to stay at home
<czajkowski> gord: you're just plain odd
<BigRedS> or, at least, not go further than walking distance
<Waffle> i'l see you guys later
<czajkowski> It's evil
<gord> qualifier: i don't own a car, i don't drive and i don't need to commute anywhere
<Waffle> bye
<gord> i get all the pro's of snow with non of the cons :)
 * BigRedS fits the first of those...
<gord> also, my cat jumps about in the snow for five minutes before running back inside needing a hug because she is so cold, then she runs outside again
<BigRedS> cats + snow = awesome
<BigRedS> generally
<jacobw> throwing snowballs at cats = awesome
<jacobw> fixed that for you :)
<BigRedS> haha
<dutchie> my dog chases snowballs in exactly the same way she chases normal balls
<dutchie> then wonders where they have gone when they melt or she eats them
<jacobw> Aw :)
<andylockran> howdy guys and gals
<andylockran> how goes things?
<jacobw> not too bad thanks :)
<jacobw> yourself?
<jacobw> soo tired. need beer :p
<AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ep/pad/view/CarSurvivalKit/latest etherpad rocks
 * jacobw has Black Sheep Golden Sheep Golden Pale Ale
<jacobw> er.. the second golden is extraneous
<AlanBell> !lvm
<lubotu3> Tips and tricks for RAID and LVM can be found on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SoftwareRAID and http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO - For software RAID, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FakeRaidHowto
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] No Maverick PPA For Unity - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/11/18/no-maverick-ppa-for-unity/
<AlanBell> waahh
<Azelphur> hmm, weird
<Azelphur> speed dial on firefox won't generate a thumbnail for deluge's web ui :(
<Azelphur> oh wait it did, it just took like 60 seconds, weird
<andylockran> Deluge webui any good Azelphur ?
<Azelphur> hell yes.
<Azelphur> deluge is awesome
<andylockran> I use deluge, but not it's webui at the moment
<Azelphur> andylockran: I use deluge+flexget to get all my stuff, it's pretty cool
<Azelphur> Anyone know how to fix firefox's terrible attempt at theme inheritance so I don't get crap like this? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/November%202010/search.png
<Azelphur> There is text in that box, believe it or not :P
<evilchristel> im not sure how i feel about potential snow
<evilchristel> i like snow. snow is fun.
<evilchristel> but last years snowfall was annoyingly inconvenient
<DJones> Snow is great fun when you've got a dog
<czajkowski> evilsnow
<DJones> Our dog loved it last year, although when he was waist deep in it walking last year he might have got a bit chilly on his stomach
<evilchristel> yeah, the dog loved it last winter, she burrowed into it and you could just see this white bump moving along
<DJones> :)
<evilchristel> it was cute!
<DJones> I bet it was, ours is too big to do that
<evilchristel> what wasnt as cute was the supermarkets not having deliveries, all my antenatal classes being cancelled and the road being littered with abandoned cars!
 * dutchie has a pretty picture of his dog in the snow
<dutchie> don't have an electronic version though
<dutchie> so you will have to take my word for the cuteness
<DJones> I was off work all the time the snow was down, all I had to do was walk the dog
<evilchristel> hehe
<evilchristel> my dog is in love with czajkowski
<dutchie> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jshholland/3756333348/
<czajkowski> lol
<dutchie> that is a non-snowy Pebbles
<czajkowski> this is rather true
<evilchristel> pebbles is indeed cute!
<danfish> dutchie: that snow's melted ;)
<czajkowski> evilchristel: dog used to walk me to my room, mount my back lick my arm and pat my tummy
<evilchristel> tillie is impossible to get photos of as she doesnt like being still, but here she is recovering after being spayed: http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs204.ash2/46697_481909445936_668090936_6939229_3935327_n.jpg
<czajkowski> i've rarely seen her that stil
<DJones> This is Oscar last year http://lh3.ggpht.com/_PnGeXTQd-uE/S0SBWOAiWSI/AAAAAAAABWY/_4pyZRc_SQ0/s640/2010-01-06%2011.24.36.jpg
<czajkowski> DJones: cute
<evilchristel> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs478.ash2/75154_10150100952695937_668090936_7509453_5357731_n.jpg and here she is eating a small child
<DJones> evilchristel: How old is she, looks quite young in the picture
<evilchristel> DJones: she's 18 months
<evilchristel> and even more nuts than she was as a 12 week old puppy
<czajkowski> evilchristel: cute
<DJones> evilchristel: Right, ours is 3 years + a bit
<evilchristel> ooh oscar is fluffy, i want to cuddle him!
<DJones> Heh, he'd love that
<evilchristel> :D
<evilchristel> i love dogs, they're fab
<evilchristel> czajkowski: tillie misses you!
<czajkowski> heh
<dutchie> pebbles will literally chase her ball all day and all night
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://lordies.co.uk/Jan/00002.jpg
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://lordies.co.uk/Jan/00003.jpg
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: sweet saint jack daniels, was that farnham last year
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://lordies.co.uk/Jan/00015.jpg
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes czajkowski
<czajkowski> oh lordie
<dutchie> i do have snow pictures without dogs in: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jshholland/3756314812/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/jshholland/3755506163/in/photostream/
<DJones> This is oscar with 2 of my parents dogs http://lh3.ggpht.com/_PnGeXTQd-uE/TOWHv2t-PFI/AAAAAAAABeI/vgF0MI8_w7s/s720/ThreeDogs.jpg (fluffy warning, more cuddles needed)
<dutchie> ahhh
<dutchie> bet that hair is a nightmare to clean
<evilchristel> czajkowski: it was very pretty last winter! (with the snow and all)
<evilchristel> oooh they're gorgeous
<dutchie> i understand oxford is pretty in the snow
<DJones> dutchie: Not really, they're always cleaning themselves if they get dirty and they get a bath about every 6 weeks
<czajkowski> evilchristel: dread the cold
<gord> everyone keeps talking about snow, i'm just gonna sit here and call you all liars >:(
<dutchie> http://www.keble.ox.ac.uk/about/photographs/snow-2007-photo-competition
<evilchristel> i spoke to my brother earlier, its -15 back home!
 * czajkowski watches gord go into a corner and sulk
<evilchristel> mind, it was -37 at its worst last year, which was the coldest for like 70 years or something
<gord> i don't need a corner, i'll just sulk in the middle so everyone can see
<czajkowski> brrrrrrr
<evilchristel> gord: lakeland sells instant snow in cans!
<TheOpenSourcerer> images 0001-16, 40, 41 if you are interested.
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://lordies.co.uk/Jan/
<TheOpenSourcerer> We built an Igloo: http://lordies.co.uk/Jan/200008.jpg
<TheOpenSourcerer> Got to go and collect my Son from Scouts. Laterz.
<evilchristel> i nearly purchased some before i realised it was for indoor use and not for making the garden look white for christmas :S
<gord> my fridge makes instant snow too, but that is less fun
<gord> i have an entire drawer in my freezer that just fills up with freezer snow
<evilchristel> (i should have realised that a small can wouldnt make enough snow for the entire garden)
<czajkowski> evilchristel: roflol
<dutchie> TheOpenSourcerer: impressive igloo
<dutchie> (that could have been a good codename)
<dutchie> except igloo isn't an animal
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] PCI DSS - http://zrmt.com/article/view/pci-dss1
<danfish> has anyone packaged up etherpad?
<evilchristel> i like the igloo!
<daubers> Evening
<DJones> danfish: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Etherpad Doesn't look like it
<DJones> But looks like that wiki has instructions on how to install
<danfish> DJones: tx - I've installed from source before - that wiki page looks like things have moved on a bit though
<DJones> danfish: Have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+bug/563484 as well, there are some pointers in that
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 563484 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] etherpad - web based collaborative real-time editor" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<danfish> DJones: packaging (learn howto) - added to mental etherpad :)
<finelytuned> hi
<DJones> danfish: Looks like there might be a repository for Etherpad http://etherpad.org/download/#debian
<DJones> "Etherpad is available as a debian package. In debian and ubuntu, add the following apt repository in your package manger"
<finelytuned> ive just joined the launchpad team
<danfish> i'll check it out
 * daubers should really reboot his vps :-s
<andylockran> daubers: uptime?
<daubers> andylockran: 116d22h
<dutchie> once it's past 100d you are not allowed to reboot it
<daubers> Not updated for a couple of kernel updates and the ssl update that came down recently, should reboot for that really
<danfish> daubers: who are you using?
<andylockran> I'm on 47 for both of mine.. last kernel update
<daubers> danfish: bitfolk
<andylockran> moi aussi
<dutchie> yay bitfolk
<danfish> linode for me
<daubers> really, _really_, want to put a machine in a DC myself, but cost is an issue at the moment
<daubers> ah screw it
 * daubers reboots
<daubers> o/
<daubers> Seems ok
<daubers> Not a bad reboot time either really
<dutchie> was thinking that seemed quite quick
<danfish> daubers: \o/ arduino dc hosting
<Azelphur> anyone know if it's possible to get a cheap internet connection without a phone line?
<Azelphur> IE: I don't want to use the telephone at all I just want to have an internet connection
<daubers> danfish: heh, be fun to do that
<daubers> Azelphur: Unless you go down the VM route, you'd need to pay the line rental on the line
<daubers> hence it'd be just as cheap to have the phone line there
<DJones> Azelphur: Apart from a 3G dongle, I doubt it, you'd need to pay line rental whether you use it or not
<daubers> (or that's what people at BT tell me)
<Azelphur> yea I understand you'd need to pay line rental
<Azelphur> but you generally have to pay line rental + internet + phone, I don't want the phone part
<Azelphur> or rather, my cousin doesn't :p
<daubers> Azelphur: Jus don't plug the phone in?
<daubers> and get a line rental only tariff
<andylockran> Still have to pay a minimum of Â£11 per month Line Rental
<Azelphur> daubers: oh like pay as you go phone but you never use it so it's free
<andylockran> I think that's what I paid when I had BT in my Student Flat.
<andylockran> Â£11 per month, and free evening and weekend calls included.
<daubers> Azelphur: Yeah, I believe thats possible
<andylockran> but that was the cheapst at the time
<Azelphur> I see
<daubers> andylockran: Thats what we had
<Azelphur> so next question is who has the cheapest internet connection :p
<Azelphur> (This is for my cousin \o/)
<daubers> andylockran: Also meant that we could call in takeaways for free in the evening \o/
<andylockran> yup
<DJones> Azelphur: Do they have sky tv?
<Azelphur> DJones: nope
<andylockran> the other option is Virgin Media.. not sure if you can get their broadband offering w/o a phone line
<Azelphur> andylockran: not in a coverage area for vm so doesn't matter
<andylockran> as they have their own home<>box connection
<andylockran> Azelphur: ah, ok
<finelytuned> you can have it without a phone line
<DJones> Thats out then, they do a free broadband option for customers
<finelytuned> used to cost Â£10 per month
<daubers> also, VM are evil
<Azelphur> indeed
<finelytuned> true but they do ok for me :)
<Azelphur> looking at the talktalk website because they are cheap, their website seems to make sense
<daubers> Seen their latest campaign? They want ISPs to drop the "Upto" and have made a big fuss of it, but HAVEN'T DONE SO THEMSELVES!!!!
<Azelphur> in the box at the top it says "+ Â£12.04 line rental a month" and then just below it it says "Line rental included no need for BT"
<Azelphur> contradictory statements are contradictory
<dutchie> daubers: how naughty
<DJones> AOL do a Â£4.99/month service .... I didn't they were still around
<daubers> dutchie: They're all a bunch of so and so's
<dutchie> well, true
<finelytuned> i agree with the above
<finelytuned> ok gotta log cya all tomorrow
<diplo> evening all
<nucc1> for the first time in 2 years, i want to use something other than the default icon theme in ubuntu, and i can't get the folder icons to change :(
<nucc1> did something change in that period?
<diplo> Faenza ones are nice, post at omg http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/faenza-icon-set-gets-a-ppa/
<diplo> never had an issue changing mine
<popey> evening
<diplo> evening
<nucc1> diplo, for some reason the icons are changing except the folder icons
<diplo> missed the folder part, not had that before myself
<diplo> How did you change them, new theme ? or manually
<nucc1> when i install the theme, it asks me if i want to apply, and i say yes
<diplo> No errors ?
<nucc1> nope
<nucc1> mime-type icons change
<nucc1> but folder icons dont
<nucc1> it seems like changing from the "customize" place works
<nucc1> is that a bug worth filing?
<nucc1> ah, it doesn't work.
<nucc1> only icons that were shipped with ubuntu are working
<diplo> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-819415.html
<diplo> Posts from 2008 but seems similair issue
<nucc1> ok, so its likely old icon themes.
<nucc1> oh well.
<nucc1> i'll try those in the link you gave me.
<nucc1> thanks
<DeathSling> daubers, AlanBell & screen-x... thank you for your help the other day with SFTP. I now have my first fully operational Virtualised SFTP server.   Ubuntu rocks!
<AlanBell> yay!
<DeathSling> I'm even starting to get used to using vi, which I thought would never happen!
<DeathSling> Still wish I could get TextMate on Ubuntu though, I love that app
<DeathSling> how sad is it that my favourite app is a text editor... I need to get out more
 * AlanBell fears vi
 * AlanBell huggles nano
<AlanBell> and gedit when there is a gui
 * AlanBell is soft
<jacobw> i've learnt to use vi about 3 times now, its always a small epiphany when i realise how useful it is
<jacobw> the reason i've learnt to use it 3 times is because i don't do a great deal of computer stuff and i keep forgetting
<DeathSling> still haven't tried nano. GEdit skanked a file today. Might be my file permissions of the xserver but I was still pretty cross
<popey> i have a vi cheat sheet posted up near my desk at work
<popey> I never use it
<popey> my co-workers do
<popey> i use nano
<jacobw> yeah, i think its one of these things where it doesn't become useful unless you use it all the time
<DeathSling> very true
<DeathSling> doing this virtual machine stuff has forced me into it, now I'm glad because I'm not quite so frightened f it
<mgdm> I've got the new guy at work (it's no longer me!) learning Vi
<mgdm> after showing some 1337 regex sk1llz the other day
<DeathSling> I've looked at the license for VirtualBox and it seems that I'm perfectly legal in using it to run my servers through it for free, in my workplace. Does anyone here know if I right?
<diplo> Anyone recommend me a good prog for resizing a bulk load of images to a defined size ?
<diplo> Or best just with CLI ?
<dutchie> diplo: there is a very easily scriptable "resize" command in the imagemagick package
<DeathSling> imagemagik
<DeathSling> it's command line. never used t, but heard it's very good
<dutchie> !info imagemagick
<lubotu3> imagemagick (source: imagemagick): image manipulation programs. In component main, is optional. Version 7:6.6.2.6-1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 70 kB, installed size 284 kB
<mgdm> imagemagick is ace
<jacobw> i've never seen the attraction of emacs personally
<mgdm> the 'convert' command is the swiss army knife of image handling
<diplo> yeah used it before, just wondering if any gui apps using it now
<stuphi> diplo: for f in *.jpg;do convert $f -resize 1024x768 small_$f;done
<DeathSling> i'd like to see launchd ported to ubuntu
<mgdm> it has upstart
<DeathSling> mainly i'm after watched folders
<diplo> cheers stuphi, already used mogrify but will try yours as well to see diff results
<danfish> my 20month old has just woken up thinking it's morning and is wide awake :( suggestions on a postcard on how to get him back to sleep
<jacobw> put him back to bed and turn the lights off?
 * jacobw has no experience of kids, is it obivous :P
<jacobw> s/obivous/obvious
<danfish> jacobw: :)
<jacobw> i'm watching a documentary on 4od called "In the Shadow of the Moon" about the moon landing
<jacobw> its really amazing all the things they acheived
<danfish> jacobw: it was all faked
<danfish> honest
<diplo> It's great fun isn't it danfish
<diplo> I've got a 2 1/2 and a 4 year old
<jacobw> danfish: impossible
<diplo> Younger one been doing lot's of that recently
<DeathSling> thinking i might need to write my own, but not sure if php, perl or bash would be best. Anyone recommend a language that would be best suited to spawning other script with the option not wait for response?
<danfish> diplo: wonderful - can't remember the last night of unbroken sleep
<DeathSling> 1 son, he's 8 and twin identical girls, 5 and there mental
<jacobw> eek
<danfish> DeathSling: python - subprocess module has that option IIRC
<DeathSling> not in the literal sense
<jacobw> yeah
<DeathSling> I tried a bit of python a few of months ago, it freaks me out a bit. I don't quite it syntax
<jacobw> why have we never been back to the moon? i want to go :(
<diplo> danfish, honestly it does get easier
<danfish> jacobw: a few more nights like this, and I'll be volunteering for the Mars trip - one way if necessary
<jacobw> ha! i've seen that too
<danfish> diplo: tx
<diplo> Best thing I can suggest is routine and stick to it
<diplo> After 2-3 weeks of bad nights of routine they follow suit, you just have to stick to your guns and not give in.
<danfish> diplo: agreed. 4 year old was having a tantrum at bath time which I think affected the younger one
<danfish> DeathSling: how did it freak you out?
<diplo> aha you are going through exactly what we did then, 2 close together both wake each other up
<stuphi> DeathSling: I found this helped http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/set-up.html
<DeathSling> diplo: am I right in thinking that you use whitespace to end multi lined if blocks and such?
<DeathSling> sorry diplo
<danfish> diplo: yup - boys too
<DeathSling> meant that for danfish
<danfish> DeathSling: it's the indenting that needs to be precise - if you want a good editor for python code, geany helps a lot with proper syntax
<DeathSling> I shall have to have another look at it properly.
<jacobw> the identing put off python for a long time
<DeathSling> the indenting is all important then?
<danfish> DeathSling: yup - in essence, you can't use tabs. 4 spaces is the 'standard'
<jacobw> i really must develop my computer skills constructively rather than dip in and out computer stuff for projects
<DeathSling> i see
<danfish> gedit and nano have got extensions that help with indents etc in python
<DeathSling> i dip in and out all the time, too impatient and too curous and WAY to much coffee
<DeathSling> but it's what i love, i nerdy and happy
<Azelphur> Anyone happen to have an answer to the firefox gnome theme problem? https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/questions/765355
<danfish> DeathSling: experience it all the time myself - "ooh shiny new thing. must try. want instant results. now bored" :)
<DeathSling> danfish: "bored", na, must be the coffee wearing off, have more!
<danfish> Azelphur: hmm, no setting in gconf that I can see
<Azelphur> :(
<danfish> DeathSling: nah, switching to jack daniels
<jacobw> goodnight
<danfish> nn
<andylockran> howdy
<danfish> lo
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Sigh. - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/129815.html
<DeathSling> Mmmm jack daniels, mabey tomorrow...
<danfish> DeathSling: sorry - to clarify, I'm sticking with coffee, the JD is for the 20 month old :P
<DeathSling> haha
<DeathSling> DONT give it the coffee!   :)
<danfish> heaven forbid
<DeathSling> if i gave my girls coffee they could power the whole of this country
<danfish> I remember a house warming party my folks had a number of years ago. The 'bar' was in the utility room where the labrador slept. After many alcohol spills the labrador was positively wasted and very grumpy the next mornig
<danfish> in hindsight, to be avoided. Although, certain animals do go out of their way to consume fermented fruits
<danfish> right, son finally asleep. Time to turn in. Good sleep all :)
<DeathSling> night danfish
#ubuntu-uk 2010-11-19
<DeathSling> night all
<AlanBell> morning all
<Arigead> AlanBell: morning back to you. Bit of an early bird but then that depends on where in the world you are.
<MartijnVdS> morning everyone
<diplo> morning
<DJones> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Glowing bio-LED trees could replace street lights: http://is.gd/hp3zP Is that cool or what?
<finelytuned> o/
<MartijnVdS> would be annoying though
<MartijnVdS> you can turn off street lights if you have to
<finelytuned> MartijnVdS: i'm gonna do some more study today... so might have some newb problems i'll need help with if your on here
<BigRedS> bioLED? where's the 'd' bit?
<screen-x> morning :)
<finelytuned> morning screen-x
<TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: Dunno. Maybe each leaf is a diode?
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: Haha, perhaps. I suppose 'led' has come to mean 'modern light source' rather than, well, LED...
<czajkowski> aloha
<TheOpenSourcerer> afternoon czajkowski
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ping free for a call later on
<mattt> soooo tired
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: AlanBell is out at the moment, networking in Godalming
<czajkowski> where?
<TheOpenSourcerer> in Godalming
<czajkowski> *googles* doesnt sound like a real place
<TheOpenSourcerer> It is a very nice small town not far from Guildford.
<czajkowski> ahhh
<czajkowski> ok thanks
<czajkowski> shall poke him later re some event
<czajkowski> thank you
<TheOpenSourcerer> np
<AlanBell> back now
<TheOpenSourcerer> that was quick
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice - Francis Maude: "I want to personally encourage the army of armchair auditors to look at  this information, scrutinise and question us and ensure that every penny  of taxpayers money is being spent judiciously."
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/19/francis-maude-government-data-published
<AlanBell> yes, didn't hang about today, had to get back for the piano tuner
<TheOpenSourcerer> Our came last week
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\Our\Ours
<AlanBell> we have *very* different pianos
<popey> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
<finelytuned> o/ popey
<AlanBell> my piano is not finelytuned
<finelytuned> ouchies
<finelytuned> :)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: when is good for a call re event today?
<AlanBell> any time this afternoon
 * popey notes that working around the nasty work proxy is useful
<popey> unfortunately once co-workers know about it I end up having to print stuff like this http://www.curchods.com/display/104703?n=7
<popey> because the estate agent links their pictures directly to IP address hosts, not hostnamed hosts, so thats blocked
<MartijnVdS> *facepalm*
 * screen-x is moving forward in the queue and will be connected to an advisor shortly
<popey> ooo reminds me, need to call apple
<gord> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/229961 huh, Â£55 for a hd media player - interesting machine
<popey> that is an interesting device gord
<screen-x> gord: no NIC, but maybe could do something with that usb socket..
 * popey has an apple usb to ethernet device
<popey> and a nintendo one :)
<screen-x> popey: you have an MBA as well?
<MartijnVdS> do they work in Ubuntu?
<popey> no
<popey> MartijnVdS: yes
<MartijnVdS> popey: with or without dirty hacks?
<popey> just works
<jpds> popey: Do you find that it adds overhead?
<popey> do i find what adds overhead to what?
<gord> to the giggybytes?
<MartijnVdS> "is it laggy"
<popey> not sure what you mean
<MartijnVdS> popey: well, with some USB disks you notice it's USB because it is (or "feels") slower
<MartijnVdS> We're wondering if that's the case with usb-ethernet as well
<gmb> Can anyone recommend a good DAS unit that supports RAID0,1, has a FireWire 400/800 interface and either comes with (at least) 2x1TB drive or is an empty shell which will happily support up to 2x2TB?
<MartijnVdS> gmb: and a pony?
<gmb> MartijnVdS: And a plastic rocket.
<popey> gmb: EDGE10
<gmb> popey: I thought that was USB and eSATA
<popey> oh, duh, sorry
<popey> buy my drobo off me then :)
<danfish> morning
<gmb> Hahahahaah.
<kazade> morning all
<popey> (it has fw)
<screen-x> gmb why fw?
<gmb> popey: Between you and Drew Gardner I've been absolutely convinced not to do that.
<popey> excellent, good man
<popey> morning kazade
<kazade> popey, https://launchpad.net/platformation
<popey> MartijnVdS: not noticed, but not tested very much, will test later tonight if you remind me
<gmb> screen-x: MacBook Pro has USB or FireWire, no eSATA. And I need to shift large amounts of data (images and video) at speed.
<kazade> Got round to registering it just now :)
<popey> yay
<MartijnVdS> popey: did you manage to fit all the snow-preparation stuff in your car btw?
<screen-x> gmb: that's the only time I've used fw800 :)
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<MartijnVdS> gmb: gig-e ;)
<MartijnVdS> gmb: macbooks also have that
<gmb> MartijnVdS: True, but I'd like to not have to upgrade my somewhat crappy network infrastructure whilst I'm at it.
<popey> :) MartijnVdS
<daubers> o/
<screen-x> morning daubers :)
<daubers> gmb: NFS is your friend in that situation :)
 * daubers quite often shifts data around at 108+MB/s
<MartijnVdS> hmmmm data
<gmb> daubers: See above re: crappy network. But point taken.
<daubers> gmb: Take a small shuttle PC with a 2/3disk raid to the desk, crossover between them, NFS to it, move on :)
<daubers> If ones a MBP you can actually make it a firewire target
 * popey coughs up a drobo
<daubers> gmb: Hold down T while it's booting, it'll become a firewire target
<gmb> daubers: I like your thinking :)
<screen-x> target disk mode.. why on earth is that in firmware rather than OS?
<daubers> screen-x: I'd imagine it's something on the board that does it. Part of the EFI somewhere
<popey> gmb: setup a new network? buy a GbE switch and just have the storage and the mbp on it
<screen-x> daubers: would useful if you could do it from disk utility
<shauno> I'm not sure exporting the entire physical disk as a read-write target would be sensible while there's an OS running on it
<screen-x> shauno: yeah, but you may have another disk you want to export
<popey> in a laptop?
<screen-x> or partition etc
<popey> unlikely on a mac
<daubers> popey: Mac Pros do it too
<popey> yes
<popey> thats what I'm saying
<popey> 10:11:04 < screen-x> shauno: yeah, but you may have another disk you want to export
<daubers> mac pros can take 4 disks by default, come with caddies too
<popey> 10:11:12 < popey> in a laptop?
<screen-x> maybe partition wouldn't work
<popey> oh, desktops?
<daubers> popey: I think we've moved away from gmb's specific case
<shauno> I'm sure there's 101 ways to export a filesystem or block device over a network.  having target-disk being no-os has saved my skin many times
 * popey considers himself shutup
<daubers> popey: Yep, mac pro, not macbook pro :)
<gmb> If anyone has a Mac Pro they want to give me, I'm open to it.
<daubers> gmb: What are you taking the data too off the MBP?
 * screen-x imagines some trade show booth giving away branded mac pros
<daubers> screen-x: Razorlab laser etches the,
<daubers> them
<daubers> screen-x: http://www.razorlab.co.uk/itattoo/
<Darael> ost of Linux  |
<Darael> What?
<Darael> Whoops.
<Darael> Sorry.
<gmb> daubers: I'm not sure I understand your question.
<daubers> gmb: Is this a one shot thing or something that will become regular?
<daubers> gmb: Also are you going from MBP -> ? or ? -> MBP?
<gmb> daubers: Regular. Basically I'll be dumping large wodges (4GB+) of data (images, videos, audio) onto it and then editing them from the MBP.
<popey> 10:11:12 < popey> in a laptop?
<popey> oops
<daubers> gmb: What data rate video (also, welcome to my office :) )
<daubers> gmb: Also is this a company thing or a personal thing?
<gmb> daubers: Personal. We're talking video from a 5D or D7000, so it's about 38Mb/s, I'd expect.
<gmb> I'm taking a punt on the bitrate of the D7000, but it's a reasonable ballpark.
<daubers> gmb: A lot of people in your situation use something like http://www.lacie.com/uk/products/product.htm?pid=11142 but in a post house they'd use either a fibre san (depending on no. seats) or a nice big raid connected over nfs
<gmb> daubers: Yeah, as a one man op the LaCie is tempting. I've heard bad things about noise levels from it (which is irritating if you're recording VOs)
<daubers> gmb: RAID is normally on it's own isolated network to reduce traffic and switches coughing at latency
<gmb> daubers: Right. A crossover is about as isolated as it gets :)
<daubers> gmb: If you're looking at spending Â£lots you can build a small linux box with 4/5 disks in raid 5, you'll easily saturate GigE over NFS
<popey> how portable does it need to be?
<gmb> daubers: I think I'll start with Â£NotALot :)
<gmb> popey: Not very.
<popey> studio based?
<daubers> gmb: But if the data is coming off a different machine, get a firewire cable and hold T when you boot the MBP, that makes the MBP into a firewire drive
<gmb> daubers: Noted, thanks.
<daubers> gmb: You can then transfer stuff onto the MBP from $another machine
<gmb> popey: No, but I've got other plans for portable storage (i.e. I'll mostly edit at home anyway, but the RAID is going to be the canonical place for data to live).
<popey> I'd still get an edge10 and GbE
<gmb> popey: Maybe that's the way to go. After all, I've had this router since 2003 and that's the bottleneck on the network.
<popey> i have cable modem -> router/wifi -> GbE switch, everything is plugged into that.
<popey> just an el-cheapo blue netgear one
<gmb> popey: Ah, yes, that would work, too.
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/129220
<gmb> Ta
 * gord presses his face against the window again waiting for the postman to come give him his networking shinys 
<popey> i love my edge10 box
<popey> not as well built as the drobo, but its lovely
<daubers> gmb: Personally I'd (very biasedly) recommend http://gblabs.interads.co.uk/?q=node/13 but that's cause I built it
<popey> also gmb you could get an esata pci express card for the mbp could you not?
<popey> haha, overkill :)
<daubers> popey: For his case, very much so :)
<popey> is that a standard case?
<popey> or custom
<popey> also, get whoever makes that host to setup drupal correctly so you get nice urls
<popey> ?q=node/13 is fugly
<Phineas> hi guys
<popey> hello
<daubers> half and half, starts life as a standard one, then get's attacked with a cutting torch
<popey> hah
<daubers> popey: I know :( The web dev is on holiday so I can't get it fixed
<Phineas> he he
<Phineas> web dev?
<daubers> web developer
<gord> the difference between a good url and a bad one, i navigate launchpad entirely by fitting the right verbs and nouns into the right places in the url
<gord> i navigate the rest of the web with google
<Phineas> oh i see
<daubers> googleh is teh w3b!!!!
<Phineas> quite right comes in pretty handy sometimes
<Phineas> daubers:  comes in handy good 'ol google
<Phineas> !ping
<lubotu3> pong
<gmb> daubers, popey, screen-x: Thanks for the suggestions. Of course, I basically want to have enough money (and need) to have Chase Jarvis's setup (http://bit.ly/8YyY2V), but I'm British, so I'll scale it down a bit.
<popey> am I the only one who hates that effect of jump zoom
<gmb> popey: Yeah, but they're limited to what they can do when they're shooting on DSLRs. Whip-pans don't work because of the rolling shutter, so it's either jump zooms or Star Wars-style wipes.
<MartijnVdS> gmb: star wars-style wipes rock though
<daubers> gmb: You using FCP?
<gord> *always* star wars wipes. never use anything else.
<MartijnVdS> gmb: well that or jump zooms
<gord> no, i'm with popey, i hate them
<gmb> daubers: I'm experimenting with both FCP and Premier Pro CS5; Haven't decided which I prefer.
<daubers> gmb: (FCP is much nice on storage....)
<gmb> daubers: So I hear :)
<gmb> Also, it crashes a damn sight less often.
<popey> I also dislike the guy in that video even though I have the volume muted :)
<popey> irrational, I know
<gmb> popey: Which guy?
<gmb> There's more than one.
<daubers> gmb: Yeah, there is that. I quite like the UI in FCP tbh, didn't really get on with CS5
<popey> the main guy, not the big lad
<popey> he is too attractive :)
<popey> annoyingly so
<gmb> popey: This has been noted in our house.
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> so the wrong time to look back at this screen
<gmb> czajkowski: Why? Was it our A/V data nerdout or was it popey dissing Chase Jarvis for his looks?
<czajkowski> the latter
<popey> felt compelled to check him out huh?
<shauno> I wish people wouldn't use shortners in contexts that don't require brevity.  saves me the let-down of discovering it's a site that's blocked at work :(
<andylockran> howdy guys
<andylockran> is it possible to install ubuntu to a separate partition using wubi ?
<andylockran> i.e. if I partition 200GB for Windows, I'm going to leave 300GB left on the disk for ubuntu..
<andylockran> would I be able to install that using wubi
<BigRedS> I imagine it'd have trouble online resizing ntfs
<BigRedS> oh, pre-partitioned
<andylockran> just a wubi question rather than ubuntu one
<andylockran> as I can install using ubuntu usb, but wondering if wubi was capable
<popey> why use wubi?
<andylockran> good point
<andylockran> didn't have a CD drive this morning
<andylockran> but just nicked one from next door
<andylockran> therefore, the point is moot
<popey> \o/ petty theft
<andylockran> cheers popey
<popey> np
<AlanBell> shauno: use ubunt.eu \o/
<andylockran> next door = colleagues PC
<shauno> AlanBell: it was the destination (youtube) that's blocked, not the shortener :)
<popey> \o/ bypassing proxies
<gord> \o/ toast
<daubers> \o/ coffee
<AlanBell> \o/ bourbon biscuits to go with coffee
<gord> what? no. why would you buy bourbons when you could get custard creams?
<popey> oooo ooo!
<popey> I know this!
<popey> chocolate
<popey> also.. custard digestives..
<shauno> I try not to push my luck with proxies too much .. I dread the day they notice that I stay connected to 443 for 12 hours at a time
<andylockran> hmm, I'd quite like a custard creme at the moment
<andylockran> good call
<andylockran> looking forward to the ubuntu monospace font
 * popey listens to a bit of ELO
<andylockran> spend over 60% of my time in the terminal, so that'll make a nice little difference to me
<popey> chaps..
<popey> what shall we talk about on uupc on monday
<popey> we have no segments lined up
<andylockran> me
<popey> need two 15min segs
<popey> thats 10 seconds sorted
<popey> how about the other 29 mins and 50 seconds
<matti> ;]
<BigRedS> This super phoronix patch and how it's going to cure the common cold
<BigRedS> ;)
<popey> :)
<popey> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/readers-choice-awards-2010  is a possibility
<X3N> hum, just did a dist-upgrade and now all my notes are missing... :\
<BigRedS> popey: how unity's not as bad as everyone thinks it is? I've not listened for a little bit though, that might've been covered already.
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/SegmentIdeasFromTheCommunityForUUPC is also available :)
<AlanBell> talk about winter survival
<popey> :)
<shauno> I'm trying to avoid the unity topic until they've changed whatever 3d framework it's using
<X3N> it's using compiz now
<popey> barely
<shauno> the version in 10.10 puts more load on my video card than civ4  (based purely on how obnoxious the fan is)
<popey> ouch
<shauno> I believe there's changes expected there, hence the 'wait and see' :)
<danfish> popey: openrespect.org as a segment?
<AlanBell> The christmas party is more news than a topic of conversation really
<popey> ooo yes, will add to events
<AlanBell> incidentally, only 8 people signed up so far, come on people: http://ubunt.eu/c2
 * daubers added it to the official "Matts allowed to do this" calender last night
<AlanBell> and bringing Mrs Daubers too
<daubers> AlanBell: Indeed
<BigRedS> Argh. It feels like Thunderbirds deliberately being obtuse with its 'sensible' defaults
 * X3N feels he is going to be representing the youth of today again at The Hub
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> incoming!
<davmor2> BigRedS: no it's just out to annoy you is it working?
<AlanBell> I am not doing so well at getting wifey along to events. "will it be all your geeky friends" "yes" "I will give it a miss" :(
<popey> AlanBell: i find it helps if i mention other non-geek women will be there
<AlanBell> yeah, tried that too
<finelytuned> my wife still struggles with the fact that i talk to people on irc about a os........ dare i tell her about the pod cast??
 * davmor2 decides to nice to czajkowski causes it's Friday :D
<popey> :)
 * popey collapses
<shauno> I always had that problem trying to explain why I was laughing at lugradio
<davmor2> popey: I'm feeling Good so I'm spreading the feel good feeling
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: neutral good, chaotic good or lawful good?
<davmor2> popey: mind you it could be the new pain killers
<daubers> AlanBell: The missus came to the RAT and quite enjoyed herself
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Generally good :D
<popey> AlanBell: does your missus work?
<AlanBell> popey: a few days a month at a local school
<popey> ah excellent!
<popey> my wife works at a school
<popey> common interest :)
<AlanBell> so it is
<AlanBell> I will try again, we are owed loads of babysitting so that isn't an issue
<BigRedS> davmor2: it's doing its job wonderfully :/
 * czajkowski pours a bucket of ice cold water over davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: Ah can't ruin my day :P  /me gives czajkowski a hug
<andylockran> what's the default virtualisation platform on ubuntu
<andylockran> need to load up a virtual image of centos on my machine, and wondering what to use
<MartijnVdS> kvm
<andylockran> ok, thanks .
<X3N> There isn't a default is also the answer
<AlanBell> Virtualbox if you want accelerated graphics
<AlanBell> !kvm
<lubotu3> kvm is the preferred virtualization approach in Ubuntu. For more information see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM
<AlanBell> ^^ preferred
<popey> ^^ AlanBell
<danfish> virt-manager is a reasonable GUI for KVM
<andylockran> looks like it needs hardware support
<daubers> Your machine does need to support virtualisation at the HW level for kvm to work
<andylockran> in teh cpu
<andylockran> which unfortunately mine doesn#t
<daubers> andylockran: Virtualbox
<danfish> :(
<danfish> not :( to virtualbox btw
<andylockran> though vbox + oracle = future pain?
 * daubers is currently installing an OSX server into VirtualBox
<daubers> andylockran: You could use qemu if it still exists
<andylockran> daubers: is breaking license conditions ?
<daubers> !qemu
<lubotu3> qemu is an emulator you can use to run another operating system - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsXPUnderQemuHowTo
<daubers> andylockran: It's on a mac!
 * TheOpenSourcerer has OSX in VBox :-)
 * AlanBell likes virt-manager +KVM for remote machines and virtualbox for local ones
 * AlanBell now has a tuned piano
 * DJones wonders if the piano player has also been tuned?
<DJones> AlanBell: My wife is having lessons, we've got a piano downstairs which she practises on during the daytime, but evenings when I'm home, she uses a keyboard with a set of headphones (she says so I can't hear how bad she is)
<jpds> Hmm, piano lessons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JQOSB8TeAs
<AlanBell> DJones: I was planning to get a keyboard with headphones but was feeling poor and got a piano on ebay for free (buyer collects)
<AlanBell> apparently it is pre- 1935 with art-deco legs
<DJones> AlanBell: Yeah, our keyboard was free from my Gran, and the piano came free from a friend who needed the space
<danfish> AlanBell: nice - who's it made by?
<czajkowski> well that's a bit bloody annoying few free events I want to go to in london and trying to register for them and the website is being a brat!
<TheOpenSourcerer> They know who you are czajkowski :-D
<danfish> AlanBell: if it's a Steinberg or Steinway from 1930's they can be v valuable
<andylockran> Yeah, they're lovely.
<andylockran> I have an old Zender of a great-great aunt.
<andylockran> Nothing quite like an old piano.. heavy like you wouldn't believe though.
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://blogs.techworld.com/on-the-frontline/2010/11/cisco-machismo-and-the-lan/index.htm
<danfish> ooh ooh! Have a good old fashioned Cockney knee's up at the XMAS party :D
 * TheOpenSourcerer 's wife's piano is a 1903 Bechstein parlour grand
<DJones> danfish: Our church got rid of a steinway grand piano earlier this year for Â£2K, it was ruined by cold/damp etc, needed Â£25K of refurbishment and would be valued at Â£35K in good condition, we didn't have the Â£25K for refurb, so got rid before it rotted even more
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: :(
<hoover> hi folks
<awilkins> Ok - evangelism opportunity here ( to a large gov dept! ).... our current software project has now breached the limit of the 32-bit JVM on windows for heap space ... so line manager has asked me to prepare some 64-bit Ubuntu LiveUSBs with the software installed to run on our nice beefy 4GB laptops ; I've already customized the iso and added a JDK so the software will run ; I've partitioned the thumb with a casper-rw
<awilkins>  ; now I just need to know how to i) Set the keymap to uk on boot ii) automatically choose the new "persistent" menu config I stuck in the isolinux menu instead of the fancy try/install graphical prompt you get when you boot the maverick LiveCD.
<danfish> DJones: bummer :(
<DJones> danfish: Not so much, we didn't have anybody that could play it anyway :)
<danfish> :)
<danfish> awilkins: first things first - clone that line manager and send him my way
<czajkowski> awilkins: nice
<awilkins> danfish, Heheheh. I used to know how to do this too when the isolinux menu was all you got - the pretty gui is stumping me.
<danfish> awilkins: does the usb disk creator in ubuntu do the persistent bit for you when you load in the iso?
<AlanBell> danfish: it is a Rudohf Schuman which neither me, the piano tuner, or google have ever heard of
<AlanBell> which either means it is a rare and valuable antique, or old and rubbish
<danfish> hah
<awilkins> danfish, the USB disk creator makes a loopback file ; I want a native ext3 partition (which I've done)
<awilkins> danfish, The persistent bit works, just want to not have to manually do anything.
<danfish> ah ok
<awilkins> I don't even want to see the try/install prompt because some numpty will push "install" and trash his laptop
<awilkins> (horrible full-disk encryption, lots of explaining to ICT services)
<gord> load a translation that replaces install with "launch angry godzilla bee's"
<danfish> understandable
<danfish> putting a postit note on the screen where the "install" button appears probably isn't going to work either
<gord> honestly the live stuff is a tricky thing that you need specialist knowledge on, best asking the guys that build the cd
<awilkins> Do you know which channel they hang out in?
<danfish> awilkins: I might be missing the point, but why not just do a full install onto a usb stick then clone the stick?
<awilkins> danfish, this may also be an option.
<awilkins> Probably runs faster.
<gord> awilkins, i'm being told that #ubuntu-release is the best place to ask, its where the release team live, they set up the iso so they know whats going on
<czajkowski> gord: you're rather useful to have in here ;)
<awilkins> gord, Thanks for asking for me
<andylockran> gord is a useful person to know.
<andylockran> installing maverick on my desktop for the first time
<andylockran> like the new installer
<awilkins> I like the way it downloads updates in the background
<andylockran> can't help but notice it's taking quite a bit longer than older versions though - or maybe that's just me
<awilkins> andylockran, Are you running it from a CD or a USB?
 * awilkins remotes the sensitive Windows drive from his laptop to prevent grub-related accidents to the encryption bootloader
<andylockran> awilkins: CD
<danfish> awilkins: they are installing that junk here next week :(
<awilkins> danfish, Lucky you. The encrypted usb thumbs are rubbish too - all done in software. Cost extortionate money.
<andylockran> got a mac keyboard, and bought a new mouse this morning
<andylockran> logitech mx512 or something like that
<andylockran> 518
<awilkins> The only advantages are someone to blame and central key escrow.
<danfish> awilkins: already got one of those. Â£120 I think for a 2gb drive
<andylockran> just ordered an entropykey for more entropy on my virtual servers
<awilkins> danfish, Whhhhhhhhaaaaattttttt. They must hit you with more of a markup
<awilkins> danfish, Our internal purchase form says Â£65 for those, I've heard verbal quotes of Â£95
<awilkins> My price ; 5 quid for a 2GB USB stick, nothing for Truecrypt.
<andylockran> hmm, uptime on my maverick install has just hit 60 minutes :s
<awilkins> I might charge oooh 15 quid if I wrote a few scripts to automate formatting them and copy the keyblocks to an escrow server.
<danfish> awilkins: yup - our it guys seem to take the list price, double it and pass it on
<danfish> awilkins: having someone to blame is the name of the game alright
<awilkins> danfish, My assertion that they are rubbish is based on ; they consist of two partitions, one unencrypted that contains a small util that mounts the encrypted partition. One encrypted.
<danfish> ...and they can't be read in linux
<danfish> AFAIK
<awilkins> They do not have hardware encryption like an Ironkey.
<awilkins> You must install drivers for them because non-admin users cannot load drivers in Windows
<awilkins> So they are equal to truecrypt in most respects
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/236580
<popey> ooooooo
<awilkins> perrty
<awilkins> I think they also charge a per-seat license for the driver that stops you writing to unencrypted USB thumbs
<andylockran> my install appears to have hung :(
<danfish> ironkey should have got that contract tbh
<awilkins> danfish, Seeing the prices of Ironkeys on Dabs, I'm not sure they make enough margin to proffer a really effective bribe.
<danfish> awilkins: so you have to pay to have functionally removed from your PC. Craziness
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/236579
<popey> with no windows 7
<awilkins> popey, Wow, a price differential that actually reflects the price of an OEM windows license
<danfish> popey: that's more tempting
<awilkins> "Linpus linux"
<awilkins> Sounds like an infection
<awilkins> "Sorry, can't come into work today, I'm oozing linpus
<andylockran> nope, unhung now... gd gd
<andylockran> weird.
<andylockran> no action for circa 20 mins
<danfish> awilkins: from where ? :D
<awilkins> Mine just crashed because of a disk failure... given it's a flash drive, that does not full me with confidence
<awilkins> El-cheapo 8GB flash drives are cheap for a reason, it seems
<finelytuned> popey: to the unknowing public who might look at them 2 pages, they could think that they are getting so much more with the windows one, due the the amount of stuff listed under software
<popey> they get a bigger disk!
<awilkins> finelytuned, This is part of what produces a higher return rate for Linux machines - shame that MS like to yell about what is effectively uninformed buyers
<awilkins> I suppose Windows needs a bigger disk
<awilkins> I find a 60GB partition barely adequate for Vista and up
<directhex> awilkins: windows 7 is about 10 gig smaller than vista
<awilkins> directhex, Or does it just report disk consumption better - I know a lot of the apparent consumption is actually hardlinked files
<popey> http://www.xda-developers.com/android/ubuntu-running-on-galaxy-tab/
<directhex> awilkins: i think it's actually smaller. vista carries LOADS of duplicate libraries with slightly different versions, 7 has a clever way to make one lib with multiple overlays
<awilkins> Shiny. Shame the Tab is so expensive
<awilkins> directhex, I had the RC version until they canned it
<awilkins> directhex, I liked it better than Vista - but not enough to pay for 7
<directhex> i thought it was worth Â£40
<awilkins> directhex, Plus all the hassle of reinstalling it, a lot of your games, etc. I only really use it for games now.
<awilkins> Steam games are fine but a lot of them whine and moan when their DRM components disappear
<awilkins> Excellent, my parcel is here
<awilkins> Including complete Farscape box set.. there goes my productivity for a month or three
<danfish> including the peacekeeper wars?
<awilkins> Indeed
<danfish> sweet
<awilkins> Plus ; displayport / VGA adapter. No longer will my Linux system at work be relegated to a mere 1 monitors.
<awilkins> And ; fast kettle. Because waiting for tea is wrong.
<finelytuned> this is a ramdom question but does anyone know how many schools run open source software?
<popey> nope
<popey> how can anyone possibly know
<popey> well, other than asking them all :)
<finelytuned> like i said totally random
<DJones> This is not on, BBC headline "Gentoo penguin born in Australia", Never mind that, where's the Ubuntu penguin born in South Africa http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11796080?
<directhex> http://i.imgur.com/iq6Fu.jpg
<bigcalm> popey: I blame you for getting me interested in minecraft. I'm still in bed, playing on my laptop
<popey> :)
<DJones> directhex: My parents have just come bax from Oz, they've got an even better picture than that, looks like its the same animal, just even more gross
<DJones> s/bax/back
<gord> geez
 * popey tickles gord 
<gord> royal mail tracking has three states, "we do not have your item" "our item is somewhere in our network" "we delivered your item"
<screen-x> gord: so your powerline ethernet adapters are still in state 2?
<gord> yes
<screen-x> :(
<gord> last updated three days ago, it doesn't take three days to go from wales to crewe
<czajkowski> wow
<czajkowski> gord: perhaps they opened the package saw how much fun it was and decided to keep it
<awilkins> I think this USB drive is a pile of rubbish.
 * screen-x is also attempting to leave wales
<awilkins> 'cause now installs are failing because perl is broken.
<evilchristel> aww why would you want to leave wales?
<czajkowski> but the welsh are nice
<czajkowski> well the accent more than anything really
<czajkowski> and  RUGBY :D
<gord> nevermind, i now have a mince pie and Hey Eugine by Pink Martini playing, everything is well again
<awilkins> Knew a girl from North Wales at med school. Could only understand her when we were both drunk.
<screen-x> awilkins: haha
<czajkowski> awilkins: lol
<evilchristel> haha
<screen-x> I do know plenty of nice welsh people, I'm just having issues with a few troublesome ones :(
<czajkowski> I just nod and smile it's a lovely accent
<czajkowski> evilchristel: hello darling
<screen-x> having said that, the trouble is in wales, that doesn't necessairly mean the trouble makers are welsh..
<gord> never had any trouble with welsh accents myself, its nice :)
<kazade> funniest picture ever: http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbfzyy2oc61qzlfumo1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1290256133&Signature=W7ToDAICiEYXDm4l%2BVPg08FVxzc%3D
<kazade> sorry, had to share that :)
<BigRedS> kazade: That's awesome!
<evilchristel> heya czajkowski me love! a letter arrived for you!
<czajkowski> ohh
<czajkowski> evilchristel: can you open it and let me know what it is please.
<czajkowski> can't be a bill :)
<andylockran> wahey - maverick installed
<andylockran> internet connection here is awful mind
<shauno> sometimes I swear the ladies in the canteen are trying to fatten me up
<jpds> shauno: Yes, they're trying to feed you.
<andylockran> any ideas
<andylockran> will just stop during download
<andylockran> if I cancel and restart then it'll be fine
<kazade> anyone know of a program that can shove (L)GPL headers into a directory full of source files?
<popey> cp
<andylockran> kazade: sed ?
<BigRedS> sed?
<kazade> heh
<kazade> well, ok that would do it
<daubers> What they sed
<popey> That's what she sed.
 * kazade doesn't really know how to use sed
 * daubers gets his coat
<jpds> kazade: cat lgpl-template.txt sauce.cpp > result.cpp
 * AlanBell tickles czajkowski 
<kazade> jpds, oh cool
<BigRedS> for i in `ls`; do cat boilerplate $i > tmp ; mv tmp $i; done
<BigRedS> perhaps with the semicolons in different placesi
<kazade> thx BigRedS I'll try taht
<kazade> *that
<kazade> BigRedS, worked a charm!
<czajkowski> no tickles
<BigRedS> Wow. I got bash right first time! :)
<kazade> BigRedS, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kazade/platformation/trunk/revision/28
<BigRedS> kazade: I expect to see my name under 'contributors' ;)
<kazade> indeed ;)
<andylockran> evolution on maverick is just unusable.
<gord> it is?
<gord> seems fine here
<gord> are  you using imap+? if your not using imap+ you should be using it
<andylockran> I'm using imap
<andylockran> wil l switch to imap+
<andylockran> what's the difference?
<daubers> awesumsauce
<daubers> imap+ is threaded (I believe... certainly acts that way)
 * BigRedS still wants an imap client that lets him instruct it to only download the latest X messages
<BigRedS> Well, I have one. But it's quite clunky. More imap clients should honour imap
<popey> does gmail support imap+ ?
<andylockran> cheers for that tip Gord - really improved it! :)
<davmor2> popey: try it :D
<shauno> I didn't think imap+ was something that needed to be specifically supported.  just a better rewrite of the imap module for evo, but they haven't expired the old one (yet) because it's tried & trusted
<popey> My bosses wife is pregnant with their 9th child.
<awilkins> kazade, Extra tip - sponge
<awilkins> kazade, cat license.txt source.cpp | sponge source.cpp
<finelytuned> wow 9 children........ i have 3 they keep me busy all the time lol
<daubers> popey: 9????
<popey> they want 13
<daubers> 13???
<popey> yup
<popey> well.. _she_ wants 13
<daubers> Do they want to generate some kind of family choir in the hills of austria?
<czajkowski> what
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> sweet jebus mary and holy saint jack daniels
<danfish> 13 - rugby league team
<finelytuned> is it for a family football team or something?
<shauno> cztab .. well there's names for half of them
<czajkowski> popey: were any of them twins or anything
<popey> nope
<daubers> shauno: Hugh, Pew, Barney, McGrew, Cuthburt, Dibble and Grub?
<shauno> someone really should take mercy on them and buy them a TV
<kazade> awilkins, ah cool thanks
<kazade> awilkins, so no need for the tmp file with sponge I assume?
<awilkins> kazade, Nope, I did exactly the same top-license-shoving exercise with it a few days ago
<andylockran> yo.
<andylockran> what's the view called where all the windows get tiled next to each other
<andylockran> and how can I get that setup?
<andylockran> hostname
<andylockran> dmesg
<andylockran> oops
<awilkins> andylockran, try win-E
<andylockran> er.. that's not so good with 16 virtual desktops :p
<awilkins> Heh, I put them in more than one row and it improves
<andylockran> but yeah - thanks :)
<daubers> hmmm... just found all the tapes with oggcamp stuff on them
 * daubers really wants a tapeless camera
<evilchristel> czajkowski: its a questionnaire from your bank wanting your feedback on your experience of opening an account with them!
<evilchristel> (how peculiar, my bank never sends me questionnaires like that) :(
<czajkowski> evilchristel: oh good I can tell them they told me I wasn  set up for online banking and I wasn't which was rather confusing
<czajkowski> evilchristel: thank you
<evilchristel> <3
<ikonia> evilchristel: 2 days on the trot.....what a treat
<lowrr> hi
<lowrr> for mail/web servers  does ubuntu auto configure it for you
<lowrr> or it needsto be done like in fedora and stuff
<popey> depends what config you want :)
<screen-x> lowrr: some config is done through the package manager, some will have to be done with an editor.
<lowrr> but usually is it all set
<screen-x> lowrr: for example, when apt installs apache it is all ready, but you'll have to create config files if you want virtual hosts.
<lowrr> ic
<screen-x> 555?
<screen-x> screen-x: http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<Azelphur> Anyone on Ubuntu care to click "I have this problem too." https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/questions/765355 ?
<Azelphur> It really makes Firefox unusable, it's been a problem for ages too -.-
<BigRedS> Azelphur: that's also a long-standing brokenness on tbird
<Azelphur> god alone knows why they don't fix it :(
<Azelphur> BigRedS: evolution has it really bad too
<Azelphur> chrome works fine \o/
<diplo> Submitted :)
<BigRedS> I'd imagine it's only an issue on Ubuntu's dark themes - I think everybody else still uses light coloured themes
<Azelphur> indeed :p
<BigRedS> but I don't want FF to stop using the GTK theme, I want it to use the whole of it
<davmor2> Azelphur: doesn't effect me
<BigRedS> both background *and* foreground
<Azelphur> davmor2: are you using a dark theme?
<Azelphur> davmor2: by dark I mean black background white text
<davmor2> yeap
<Azelphur> what theme?
<davmor2> Azelphur: the default theme
<Azelphur> that's not a dark theme
<davmor2> Azelphur: How's it not dark?
<Azelphur> ambiance is light
<Azelphur> uhh, because it's ~80% white?
<Azelphur> and the text is black?
<davmor2> Azelphur: then you'll need to give an example
<Azelphur> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Divinorum?content=65533 is dark
<Azelphur> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Slickness+Black?content=73210 also dark :p
<davmor2> Azelphur: Try with Epiphany if that has the same issue it's a fault in GTK and not firefox
<Azelphur> davmor2: chrome doesn't suffer from it, trying epiphany now
<Azelphur> davmor2: yea epiphany suffers but differently
<davmor2> Azelphur: then it is likely to be GTK and not FF that is at fault
<Azelphur> even though chrome doesn't have the problem?
<evilchristel> ikonia: i just cant keep away
<Azelphur> davmor2: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/November%202010/2010-11-19-152908_1266x1143_scrot.png
<davmor2> Azelphur: Epiphany is as close to gtk as you can get.  all the other browsers use aspects and modify things to suit their browsers so are 3-4 + layers away from gtk so it will either magnify a fault or get rid of it depending on how they twist it.
<gord> Midori is just gtk + webkit like ephinany too i think
<davmor2> Azelphur: so what you'll find is that Chrome is blatantly ignoring the gtk element for everything other than the title bar iirc
<Azelphur> davmor2: it should do, otherwise you end up with a completely broken experience as you can see
<Azelphur> gord: midori suffers from the problem too :(
<davmor2> Azelphur: again the issue is with gtk,  if gtk fix the issue their end it fixes it for user across the board
<Azelphur> davmor2: it's not, the problem is that gtk applies the theme to the page, and then the css in the page has it's own style too
<Azelphur> at least I think
<gord> Azelphur, run firefox in wine ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<davmor2> Azelphur: Yes so if GTK fix things their end it won't effect the browsers anymore,  there is a whole heap of these minor issues that annoy the living daylights out of users,  I'm hoping that GTK+3 will put pay to some if not all (It would be nice)
<Azelphur> I guess
<DJones> Ooh, UbuntuOne for Windows beta testing
<popey> .net 4 :S
<DJones> It'll be interesting to see how it compares with dropbox once it gets a final release
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: Why what did I do?
<popey> DJones: "not as good" is my generaly opinion
<gord> .net seems like an acceptable tech if your on windows
<DJones> popey: That wouldn't surprise me with dropbox having a significant head start, but hopefully there'll be a good attempt at it anyway
<gord> windows does install .net for you now right? you don't have to go off to some website to download it
<Phineas> hi guys
<popey> *shrug*
<danfish> gord: w7 yes, xp no
<Phineas> have i spelt my nick right
<DJones> Phineas: Nope, thats not how you spell "nickname" :)
<gord> i don't have a reason to use ubuntu one on windows, so i guess this is the first beta of ubuntu one that i won't take part in :(
<Phineas> DJones,  i mean my nickname , Phineas
<shauno> no mac client?
<gord> not yet
<Phineas> have i spelt my nickname right as in my nickname Phineas
 * AlanBell just made a 29GB zip file from 140,000 files totalling 38GB
<AlanBell> and nothing broke
<gord> AlanBell, okay now lmza it!
<AlanBell> I was going to encrypt it with rot13
<popey> or lzma
 * Phineas made one totalling about 56GB
<gord> lamaz! whatever :P
<Phineas> what its true
<Phineas> brb
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] LibreOffice: Document Foundation Steering Committee Public Phone Conference 20-Nov-2010 - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/libreoffice-document-foundation-steering-committee-public-phone-conference-20-nov-2010
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ooooh ZBosons observed for the first time at the LHC: https://twitter.com/#!/CERN/statuses/5653178590699521
<Phineas> did my away message work
<AlanBell> and issyl0 gets applauded at European level https://twitter.com/#!/NeelieKroesEU/status/5651141715042304
<Phineas> did my away message work
<Phineas> ?
<AlanBell> !away
<lubotu3> You should avoid noisy away messages and -nicks in a busy channel like #ubuntu, or other Ubuntu channels; it causes excessive scrolling which is unfair to new users. Use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently.  See also Â«/msg ubottu GuidelinesÂ»
<issyl0> AlanBell: I know, I just saw that! :O
<popey> test your away messages elsewhere Phineas
<davmor2> Phineas: I don't know you're not away
<AlanBell> Phineas: didn't see anything
<AlanBell> issyl0: told a customer about govspark last week
<issyl0> AlanBell: oh?
<Phineas> popey,  sorry if my away message is 'noisy'
<popey> Phineas: i havent seen any away message from you at all, lets keep it that way
<czajkowski> popey: AlanBell http://ossg.bcs.org/2010/09/30/open-source-as-open-innovation-creating-and-capturing-value-in-value-networks-london-021210/
<Phineas> popey, :)
<popey> thanks czajkowski
 * popey is going out in london that evening
<czajkowski> ahh
<czajkowski> said I'd go it's free event and looks interesting
<Phineas> sounds intresting
 * AlanBell checks diary
<Phineas> aparently there are no guidelines in this channel
<popey> feel free to test that theory Phineas
<czajkowski> Phineas: what kind of guidelines?
<davmor2> Phineas: yes there are the same as every other channel related to Ubuntu
<DJones> !guidelines
<lubotu3> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<Phineas> oh i see
<gord> huh, i calculated that its gonna take 13 days of constant uploading at my max speed before my ubuntu one music will finish =\
 * gord cherry picks instead
<popey> gord: go somewhere with free wifi?
<gord> i don't actually know anywhere here that has free wifi, everything is pay for and slooooowww
<AlanBell> gord: Millbank!
<AlanBell> although that isn't *here* for most values of here
<gord> maybe i could just take a usb drive and give it to the folks at millbank and tell them "this is what i want on ubuntu one, its quicker than syncing"
<DJones> gord: How much have you got to upload?
<davmor2> gord coffee shop
<gord> 8gb, i have slow internet
<DJones> heh, that could take a while even with faster broadband
<gord> honestly cherry picking makes sense.like the rest of humanity 70% of my music collection is stuff i stopped listening to years ago
<davmor2> DJones: 8gb is about 40 minutes
<gord> just copying 500mb over wifi is gonna take ten minutes :(
<gord> it is not uncommon for people to have better internet connections than i do wifi
<danfish> where are the actual servers that serve ubuntu one? Just curious
<gord> I imagine its a cloud tech that uses wherever is closet to you
<gord> closest*
<danfish> ok
<popey> gord: could you move y'know, closer to the access point?
 * gord points its *there*
 * popey hands gord a cable
<gord> right, i could of just ran some cable for a few minutes then got rid of it again, stop making me look stoopid :P
<Phineas> gord,  makes me look smart
<awilkins> I find that sometimes, uploads to DropBox happen faster than physically possible - I figure this is because someone already uploaded a file with the same SHA-1 hash
<awilkins> I reckon that Ubuntu One could probably use the same thing with the music files
<gord> isn't that... dangerous?
<awilkins> If it does, you could upload your music collection in seconds
<awilkins> Why is it dangerous?
<andylockran> guys, any recommendations for a current affairs podcast
<gord> its not completely infeasible that two files can share the same hash
<awilkins> gord, True, but what about the same hash and same byte count? Or same MD5 and SHA-1?
<popey> yup, they do that
<awilkins> I'm assuming, like rsync, it does a cheap check backed up by a sure check
<gord> makes sense, until sha1 is broken, but then we all have bigger problems ;)
<daubers> sha1's been broken hasn't it? Isn't there someone who can break a sha1 in 15minutes or seomsuch?
<awilkins> Varies depending on your meaning of "broken"
<daubers> Well, easily brute forced in a reasonable time frame
<popey> hmm, can you edit a shell script whilst its running?
<awilkins> Broken as in "given an arbitrary sense document, find another with the same SHA-1" - pull the other one.
<popey> and expect the line you change to be used? like in a dos batch file?
<danfish> awilkins: the *real* reason dropbox is so fast is because they copy all your data when you first install it and then put a '.' in front of the file/folder name to hide it
<popey> or does the file get fully read at start?
<gord> popey, not unless the file is re-read, ie its been called again by another shell script or cron
<popey> bum
<gord> re-reading all the time would make it slooow
<popey> see dos batch files :)
<daubers> awilkins: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/18/amazon_cloud_sha_password_hack/
<Phineas> popey,  bum?
<popey> nvm
<gord> daubers, given enough monkeys you can crack anything relatively quickly
<gord> (see what i did there?)
<awilkins> daubers, Yes, but he was "cracking"  hashes of unsalted 6 char passwords.
<daubers> gord: If I had an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters, I could make a killing in the fertilizer business
<daubers> awilkins: Didn't really read it that carefully..... obviously misunderstood what I did read
<gord> basically, you can always defend against brute force attacks easily when doing online communication, to the point where it can be ignored
<awilkins> Anyone who uses an unsalted 6 char password hash in their implementation should not be writing security systems
<awilkins> What the story is is really "man demonstrates that renting enough computers to calculate a rainbow table really fast is possible"
 * awilkins now has a ludicrous amount of storage because he bought  a new drive because he thought the old one had failed when it was the power electronics in his external caddy
<awilkins> What to do with 3.5TB of disk...
<directhex> awilkins: you can now do GPU-powered cloud machines, not just regular VMs. someone used a GPU-powered password cracker on a cloud box, for very little money, storming through all passwords up to X characters long
<awilkins> directhex, Mmmm, CUDA. Tasty.
<gord> still have yet to find a real use for cuda outside the specialist market. would love to use it for something day to day
<popey> ffmpeg
<popey> (I would use it if it supported ffmpeg)
<popey> or vice versa
<Phineas> ff hujamaflip
<Phineas> oh that converter thing FFMPEG
<directhex> omg it's gohometime
<Phineas> is it?
<awilkins> Here in the UK, yes. Unless your boss is a git.
<awilkins> Whee, I like eSata
<finelytuned> poets day surely today
<popey> i like esata when it isnt a cheap crappy nvidia chipset
<awilkins> Ah. I have an MCP55
<awilkins> Is that bad?
<gord> nvidia do esata?
<gord> crazy world we live in
<awilkins> Well, it's not esata as such
<awilkins> It's an eSata blanking plate attached to my internal SATA controller
<awilkins> Which is the integrated nVidia one
<TheOpenSourcerer> Javascript Q: How to I get a result set, returned to a callback function, back to the original function that called the callback?
<awilkins> I had problems writing large files to it last month but figure it was down to the same thing that brought the drive to a halt this month - failing power electronics
<awilkins> I shall have another go at writing large files and see if I get the same errors
<awilkins> popey, Aaand, there you go
<awilkins> popey, Yes, same thing. Lots of ata3.00: failed command: WRITE FPDMA QUEUED
<TheOpenSourcerer> Funny, but a pretty big whack, whack ooops at the same time: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Free-ClamWin-virus-scanner-moves-most-of-Windows-into-quarantine-1139430.html
<awilkins> People will be making a joke of that for aaaages - "ClamWin thought Windows was a virus! Chortle chortle, etc"
<shauno> TheOpenSourcerer: closed: notabug
<Phineas> bye
<Phineas> bye all
<awilkins> popey, I think your assesment is correct, the nVidia SATA controller can't cope with eSata drives now, can it.
<awilkins> A good job these have USB ports too
 * awilkins crawls under his desk to rewire stuff
 * awilkins is mumbling, Yosemite Sam style
<danfish> I've an esata port on my samsung nvidia lappy. Seems to work ok so far.
<Ng> esatap!
<Ng> awesome idea, only saw it today, want it!
<jpds> I keep readind "esatap" in Spanish.
<jpds> Let's just invent esata-ng.
 * Ng does a :( at jpds 
<Ng> literally
<jpds> Ng: I saw that!
<Ng> good!
 * popey tickles Ng 
<Ng> !
<jpds> popey: Not literally though.
<popey> No, _actually_
<popey> bah
 * popey farts on apple
 * awilkins removes a hard drive from some gravy
<awilkins> Happily, not enough gravy to enter any orifices
<popey> mmmm gravy
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
 * TheOpenSourcerer is shocked to hear popey scorn the Apple.
<Ng> TheOpenSourcerer: it's ok, I've alerted Cupertino, the turtleneck ninjas are on their way
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bangers and Mash for Dinner here :-) With Gravy no doubt.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone??? "Javascript Q: How to I get a result, that is returned to a callback function, back to the original function that called the callback?"
<awilkins> I find it discomforting that the "safely remove drive" option in Ubuntu so often throws an error
<awilkins> "Safely" and "Bad stuff happened" are incongruous
<jpds> awilkins: Was the drive in gravy at any point in its life?
<awilkins> jpds, Very few of the drives I've seen that option throw an error with were ever in gravy
<awilkins> Of course, the best ones come in a sealed ziplok bag of the gravy from Mr Brains Faggots.
 * awilkins now has 3.5 TB of storage hooked up to his USB ports
<awilkins> Bwahahaha, etc
<danfish> popey: talking of food, how's the recipe section on the website going?
 * BigRedS pictures a vast auditorium with a single door leading into/out of it
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> danfish: ooh, contributions please
<AlanBell> Circle of Food
<danfish> np - is a logon needed?
 * AlanBell will create a danfish logon
<danfish> yeah!
<danfish> I'll put tonight's experimental chorizo sausage toad in the hole recipe on :)
<AlanBell> I think we should have an ubuntuish theme to the recipes
<TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: http://www.opensourcefood.com/people/opensourcerer/recipes/sunday-roast-toad-in-the-hole-and-roast-potatoes
<AlanBell> so something including a circle of friends
<popey> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/category/recipes/  AHEM!
<AlanBell> or the colour #dd4814
<jpds> TheOpenSourcerer: Should of been opensaucefood.com.
<danfish> popey: that can be desert 2nite
<AlanBell> that is an awesome recipe popey
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: nice. The chorizo may add a certain 'je ne sais quoi'
<danfish> or it'll probably just bollocks up a nice dish
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed danfish, indeed.
<AlanBell> didn't know chorizo was made of them
<awilkins> I never know how to partition external drives.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Perhaps a big knokwurst would be better?
<awilkins> As long as it's not the one you store the Fallen Madonna in
<TheOpenSourcerer> with ze big ...
<danfish> AlanBell: only the best spanish bollocks of course ;)
<awilkins> ... dumpling
<awilkins> s
<danfish> german market coming to town this year. Sausage stands everywhere normally.
<awilkins> There's one in Leeds too
 * AlanBell may try to make the popey cake in an oggcamp mug for photographing
<TheOpenSourcerer> Put the camera in the microwave for the best images :-D
<awilkins> I have a nice Ubuntu mug it might go nicely in
<Mez> damnit - memory is failing me.
<Mez> What's that famous geek toy/gift/etc site?
<AlanBell> thinkgeek
<awilkins> thinkgeek.com?
<Mez> thats it :D
<BigRedS> there's a uk one, too. firebox?
 * Mez had a brain fart
<BigRedS> something like that
<TheOpenSourcerer> iwantoneofthose.com?
<Mez> BigRedS: firebox is my company's main competitor.
<awilkins> Replica batmobile : Â£120,000
<awilkins> A biiiit much
<Mez> BigRedS: and they don't do the cool stuff that thinkgeek do (I'm remembering the mana potions)
<AlanBell> and unicorn meat
<Mez> AlanBell: yeah - unicorn meat got me dumped :)
<AlanBell> http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/wacky-edibles/e5a7/
<Mez> AlanBell: when you give unicorn meat as a present to your vegan, animal loving girlfriend... it doesn't go well.
<Mez> "But you like Unicorns, right - and it's not like they're real"
<Mez> :)
<Mez> (yes, I was purposefully trying to get dumped)
<Mez> aw what?
<Mez> They no longer ship caffeine outside of US ? :(
<AlanBell> http://www.thinkgeek.com/blog/2010/06/officially-our-bestever-cease.html
<danfish> AlanBell: login received :)
<Mez> AlanBell: old.
<AlanBell> I am
<TheOpenSourcerer> That is a somewhat relative statement AlanBell
<awilkins> The stuffed dismembered unicorn in the can is genius
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: true, I am not *that* old :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks. :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Time for bangers, mash then Pub!
<docsy> anyone about had issues with flash since updating recently (updates within 10.10 x64bit)
<finelytuned> ok gotta do dinner bbl o/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Libreoffice Beta-3 now available on Debian experimental repositories. - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/libreoffice-beta-3-now-available-debian-experimental-repositories
<danfish> listening to the radio on the way home Ireland are trying to ease the fiscal problems by sending out free cheese. czajkowski - you're away for a week the the place falls apart ;)
<czajkowski> ugh don't get me started
<jpds> It's too late for that..
<danfish> where did they get the money to buy all that cheese?
<Azelphur> danfish: I feel the need to post http://www.splicd.com/2YEfXE2tzyg/46/49
<danfish> heh
<Azelphur> drunk on cheese \o/
<DJones> danfish: Makes you appreciate the value, we (UK etc) lends Ireland Â£xB, they lend us czajkowski, I would say thats money well spent
<DJones> Worth every penny/cent
<danfish> DJones: davmor2 may well disagree.
<KrimZon> how do i set up my wireless card on ubuntu server?
<KrimZon> i think the drivers ought to be working but it doesn't seem to want to connect
<DJones> danfish: Thats just bloody mindedness :)
<danfish> DJones: true. Mind you he's been nice recently
<danfish> KrimZon: what wireless card? also using WPA etc?
<KrimZon> danfish: asus pci-g31, wpa-psk
<KrimZon> wpa2 rather
<KrimZon> i can iwlist scan and get stuff
<KrimZon> just can't yet ping anything
<KrimZon> i want to get it bridged with the ethernet eventually
<danfish> KrimZon: my advice would be to check out wicd-ncurses
<KrimZon> what's that?
<danfish> !info wicd-ncurses
<lubotu3> Package wicd-ncurses does not exist in maverick
<danfish> nuts
<KrimZon> oh, i'm using lucid still
<danfish> wicd is an alternative network manager
<danfish> !info wicd-curses
<lubotu3> wicd-curses (source: wicd): wired and wireless network manager - Curses client. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.7.0+ds1-5 (maverick), package size 68 kB, installed size 236 kB
<danfish> that's better
<KrimZon> will it support bridging?
<KrimZon> and will it work on a server with nobody logged in?
<danfish> re bridging - not sure
<danfish> it does work with no-one logged in
<danfish> mind you, I've never had great success with getting wireless working on a headless server, but it's been a while since I last tried
<KrimZon> hmm, can't get wicd-curses to ask for the passphrase
<KrimZon> ah, wicd doesn't support vpn either, which i need
<danfish> Did you set the password for the individual network using the right arrow and enable encryption?
<danfish> ooh - trailer for xmas dr who on children in need. nice
<AlanBell> who brought these last year? http://picasaweb.google.com/alanbelltolc/UbuntuUK#5418429663045996818
<finelytuned> evenong all
<finelytuned> evening even :)
<danfish> AlanBell: the recipe/technique needs to be on the website
<AlanBell> it does :)
<AlanBell> I think the recipe is: purchase mince pices, add sugar and cinamon using a circle of friends cut from paper as a mask
<danfish> chorizo toad in hole got 9/10 from the wife - will post recipe 2moro
<KrimZon> danfish: i couldn't see any options - need to get it on again
<danfish> they do look a bit too perfect to be homemade
<evilchristel> pff shop bought!
 * AlanBell looks forward to sampling evilchristel's home made mince pies then
<danfish> KrimZon: I think your requirements are beyond wicd. CLI config I think. Not really a personal strongpoint with wireless :(
<evilchristel> AlanBell: :D
<evilchristel> i shall make mince pies
<KrimZon> maybe i'll just need to ask my landlady if i can get another phone socket fitted in the computer room
<Nafallo> KrimZon: will you connection saturate the power plugs network then? :-)
<KrimZon> powerline stuff is still expensive looking, but it's an option
<KrimZon> maybe then i could try running a soft-ap from the server and route a firewalled guest wireless network
<KrimZon> i've got it pinging the adsl router over wireless though
<KrimZon> actually, full internet
<KrimZon> i just realized, the whole lot doesn't have to be bridged - the bridge is only needed for the vpn to talk to the games machine
<danfish> adios!
<KrimZon> well... i've got it transfering files nicely
#ubuntu-uk 2010-11-20
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] New Ubuntu Patch Pilot Scheme - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/11/20/new-ubuntu-patch-pilot-scheme/
<finelytuned> o/
<popey> morning slackers
<finelytuned> morning popey
<danfish> I would say lo but I'm too slack :)
 * AlanBell just woke up
<MartijnVdS> nothing wrong with that, it's the weekend :)
<winniesun> hello everyone
<AlanBell> hi winniesun
<winniesun> AlanBell:I am from China
<AlanBell> great
<AlanBell> there is a china loco channel too
<AlanBell> !cn
<lubotu3> For Ubuntu help in Chinese æ¨å¯ä»¥è®¿é®ä¸­æé¢éï¼ #ubuntu-cn æè #ubuntu-tw  æè #ubuntu-hk
<winniesun> well,just practise my English,thanks
<AlanBell> that is fine, you are doing great so far, much better than my chinese
<finelytuned> AlanBell: second that
<winniesun> you are so kind
<danfish> I thought openvz was effectively dead, but someone's ported it to a relatively new kernel
<danfish> http://forum.proxmox.com/threads/4974-KVM-0.13.0-for-Proxmox-VE-1.6-(for-2.6.32-and-2.6.35)-pvetest-repository
 * danfish likes openvz
 * MartijnVdS hates it
 * popey is ambivalent
<MartijnVdS> Sysadmins at work are in love with it, but all I get (as a user of their servers) are slowdowns and "lag peaks" (a few seconds where nothing happens, then everything continues as normal)
<danfish> MartijnVdS: what are you running on them?
<danfish> blender?
<MartijnVdS> danfish: gvim (X11 forwarding), NFS homedirs, and an unused apache
<danfish> not an awful lot then. If you (or rather the sysadmins) mess around with some of the backend settings too much, like tinkering with the backend counters, you can really stuff things up :(
<danfish> easier to put it in the hands of something like proxmox
<MartijnVdS> or just use a supported virtualization tech
<danfish> by supported I assume you mean kernel native, like kvm?
<kazade> morning all
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> something that people still work on
<danfish> the proxmox team still do
<MartijnVdS> I hope it won't turn into our previous "adventure"
<MartijnVdS> (still running some pre-war version of FreeBSD on some boxes)
<danfish> heh
<looba> hi
<kazade> popey, just uploaded screenshots of my level editor: http://kazade.imgur.com/platformation :D
<czajkowski> c
<jacobw> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1326604/Living-slow-lane-Hundreds-orphaned-sloths-given-new-lease-life-Costa-Rican-sanctuary.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
<jacobw> can data be recovered from a CD with a small crack?
<BigRedS> jacobw: generally not AFAIK
<jacobw> the CD in question has a small crack about 1.5cm originating from the centre
<jacobw> BigRedS, :(
<BigRedS> You might be able to get some stuff from the outer portion of it, but I don't think there's any sort of data redundancy for that sort of instance
<penguin42> I suspect the big problems are 1) Making sure the drive goes slow rather than trying to go at a high speed and 2) the tracking probably goes
<BigRedS> so if the bits themsevles cannot be read, there's no way to calculate what they should have been from the rest of the CD
<stuphi> ddrescue -b 2048 /dev/cdrom cdimage logfile
<stuphi> Found that at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DataRecovery
<jacobw> thanks
<stuphi> Hope it helps :-)
<OmNomSequitur> jacobw: depends on how long the crack is, if it unbalances the disc...
<OmNomSequitur> You'll lose all data from the tracks over the crack.
<OmNomSequitur> So a crack going up 1cm from the centre means you lose all data up to 1cm from the centre.
<jacobw> i guess i'll find out with this ddrescue thing
<stuphi> Once you do the ddrescue, you can mount the image on a loopback device and play around without damaging the disk any more.
<jacobw> hopefully :) i could be in trouble for losing the holiday photos :o
<danfish> recipe no2 added to the new website http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/11/20/a-spanish-twist-on-a-yorkshire-classic/
<jacobw> i've got a very simple receipe.. cashew nuts and sweet chilli sauce mixed together in a bowl
<penguin42> what is this? An Open sauce movement?
<jacobw> ;)
<stuphi> danfish: So you have given us the source code, when can we sample a pre-compiled version? :-)
<jacobw> i've just joined twitter, i'm looking for people to follow, any suggestions?
<jacobw> http://twitter.com/jacobw0
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> has anyone tried searching @domainname.com in the search bar inside gmail ?
<danfish> stuphi: there's some leftovers in the bin - I'll post them to you :D
<kaushal> is that possible ?
<BigRedS> kaushal: it's possible
<BigRedS> it's just a full-text search for that string though
<Azelphur> got a player who can't connect to my game server, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=PsAMhhtp
<Azelphur> looks like a pretty broken tracert that :(
<Azelphur> any idea how he'd approach getting that fixed?
<cprofitt> hello beginners team -- say hello to my class
<jacobw> hallo class
<AlanBell> o/
<finelytuned> o/
<Pendulum> o/
<Pendulum> although last I checked this was #ubuntu-uk, not the Beginners Team
<popey> :)
<BigRedS> Azelphur: can you get to him?
<BigRedS> as in traceroute to his IP
<Azelphur> BigRedS: dunno
<Azelphur> I'll find out
<BigRedS> but I'd blame hisIP
<BigRedS> ISP
<Azelphur> BigRedS: I don't even get first hop on my way to him
<ali1234> looks like intermittent connection
<ali1234> that would explain the on-off dns and the random stop in the tracert output
<Azelphur> if I don't even get first hop from the datacenter to his IP doesn't that mean some form of filtering is going on?
<popey> hello ali1234, not seen you for a while, welcome back
<ali1234> popey: i was at meego conf :)
<popey> ahhh
<ali1234> ironically i hate mobile computers
<ali1234> so i didn't go on the internet for a week or so
<ali1234> Azelphur: filtering at your end, yeah :)
<Azelphur> hmm
<ali1234> Azelphur: you know how tracert works right? packets have a maximum hop, so it sends a packet with a "max hops" of 1, then 2, then 3... and sees who reports an error. "max hops" also known as time to live. but some routers will silently drop those errors.
<Azelphur> yea I know that
<Azelphur> how would I check that my server hasn't somehow firewalled him?
<Azelphur> I've never touched iptables so it shouldn't be that
<ali1234> i doubt it would accidentally filter one guy
<BigRedS> if it was a firewall error, he'd get almost as far as you
<ali1234> but it can be hard to figure out what your firewall is really doing
<ali1234> that his DNS is intermittent suggests a intermittent internet connection
<Azelphur> still even if he had an intermittent connection or was completely unplugged, I should still get past the first hop right?
<ali1234> yeah but that is unrelated
<Azelphur> it is?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> presumably
<ali1234> i mean his DNS path goes nowhere near your server
<ali1234> if i were him i would do a ping -nt 204.145.82.242 and leave it going for a while
<Azelphur> he's on windows
<ali1234> windows has ping
<Azelphur> ok :p
<ali1234> i dunno if -n is right though
<ali1234> but whatever one makes it not look up ips
<ali1234> it's just ping -t
<ali1234> doesn't resolve by default
<ali1234> if that works ok i would start poking the dns servers
<Azelphur> he randomly left after 30 minutes of debugging anyway \o/
<Azelphur> gotta love the ask n runners
<ali1234> randomly, or his connection went totally kaput
<Azelphur> like he quit :p
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dean Sas] Married - http://www.deansas.org/blog/2010/11/20/married/
<popey> how was meego conf btw ali1234 ?
<ali1234> very technical, nokia played it very low key as well
<ali1234> possibly because they don't want to take the blame for meego handset being totally unusable :)
<popey> heh
<ali1234> that and there is no official hardware to run it on
<popey> helpful
<popey> is there an x86 port?
<popey> or is it arm only?
<ali1234> of handset? yeah
<ali1234> there's even an x86 phone that runs it, called avaa or something
<ali1234> not available to the public though
<ali1234> they wouldn't even let people take photos of it at the conf
<popey> i guess they're using reference hardware?
<popey> not actual phone shaped things?
<ali1234> the avaa is phone shaped
<ali1234> most community developers are using the n900
<ali1234> it's not officially supported for for end users but nokia are putting some resources into the port
<ali1234> but it will never be an official upgrade
<ali1234> they gave us all ideapads though... netbook that transforms into a tablet
<ali1234> so it has a touch screen... so we can develop meego touch apps
<popey> the lenovo thing?
<ali1234> yes
<popey> nice
<popey> well, is it a nice device?
<popey> or are you under NDA and cant say? :)
<ali1234> no NDA, it's not exactly new hardware either
<ali1234> been out for like a year
<ali1234> it's alright, i mean i can't really complain for free
<popey> sure
<ali1234> it's not as nice as that new dell thing though
<ali1234> build quality... is a bit wobbly
<ali1234> i wouldn't buy one for the price they normally cost... i'd get the dell instead
<nucc1> erm, if apache simply says "fail" on the terminal when I try to start it, where can i find out why its failing?
<penguin42> isn't there an apache log somewhere?
<nucc1> penguin42, there is. thanks. thought there was some way of getting the daemon to spit out the errors it encountered
<popey> evening
<issyl0> popey: evening :)
<jacobw> evening
<czajkowski> bah
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] The Etherpad Foundation is Hiring - http://popey.com/blog/2010/11/20/the-etherpad-foundation-is-hiring/
<DJones> popey: Have you seen the email re changing the /topic for the new log location? Looking at the wording on jussi's email, its not going to fit.  Any suggestions, or just change the log location part & miss out the acceptance of terms section
<jussi> DJones: please use the chanserv message ;)
<DJones> jussi: ok, cheers
<jussi> DJones: as listed here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
<jussi> DJones: theres no need for it to be in the topic if theres an entry message
<DJones> jussi: Yes, thats where I'm looking, thats fine, solves the problem
<jussi> excellent :)
<DJones> Is it just the owner that can set entry messages, or anyone with ops
<jussi> anyone with +s
<DJones> msg ChanServ SET #ubuntu-uk ENTRYMSG Welcome to #channel. This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com. Use of this channel implies acceptance of the terms at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/TermsOfService
<Azelphur> derp :p
<Azelphur> oh dear not an entry message
<Azelphur> those are silly
<jussi> DJones: you need to fix the #channel
<DJones> Yup, should have it now
<Azelphur> jussi: entry messages are silly, that's what the topic is for :(
<jussi> DJones: great :)
<DJones> Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/ | Mailing List: http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 23rd November 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet |  Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 â
* DJones changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu-com | Mailing List: http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 23rd November 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet |  Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 â
<jussi> lol
<jussi> not quite ;)
* DJones changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List: http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 23rd November 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet |  Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 â
<Azelphur> christmas party :o
<czajkowski> Azelphur: where you been :)
<Azelphur> nowhere :D
<finelytuned> evening all
<AlanBell> evening all
<finelytuned> hi ya
<dutchie>  hi AlanBell and finelytuned
<Pendulum> hiya
<AlanBell> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/todays-chatter updated with the new log location
<finelytuned> is there another alternative program to wine?
<Azelphur> finelytuned: there are forks of wine, there's also virtual machines
<Azelphur> besides that no
<dutchie> "windows"
 * AlanBell is loving wine
<finelytuned> i love a type.......... just not the computing type :0
<AlanBell> I am using python under wine to access a clunky old win32 api that extracts stuff from a document management system
<AlanBell> then stuffs it into Alfresco via CMIS
<Azelphur> I wish my TF2 would stop playing up under wine
<AlanBell> about 140,000 files totalling 40GB or thereabouts
<Azelphur> Anyone happen to know what this is about? http://pastebin.com/hQdE57SL
<finelytuned> brb
<dutchie> Azelphur: wine devs probably would if you filed a bug *cough*
<Azelphur> the stuff line 33 onwards looks like the breakage
<Azelphur> dutchie: I don't think it's a bug
<dutchie> what is it then?
<AlanBell> it is a bug, unless it also breaks in windows
<Azelphur> I have no idea, I have one wine bottle which can launch tf2 but the other can't
<Azelphur> I wonder if it's an account thing...
<finelytuned> i think i have it working
<Azelphur> yea I get that wined3d stuff in my second wine bottle but the game still starts
<zleap> hi tombrough
<zleap> is the new desktop going to be using unity or wayland
<AlanBell> zleap: unity
<zleap> ah
<dutchie> zleap: it's not an either/or
<zleap> so what is wayland,
<AlanBell> wayland is a long term possible replacement for X
<zleap> ah, so unity will sit on top of X
<AlanBell> so one day it might be Unity on Wayland rather than unity on X
<zleap> so is wayladn similar to X as in client / server type thing
<dutchie> http://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html
<AlanBell> (or gnome-shell or traditional gnome panels if this funky new hotness isn't as hot as hoped)
<zleap> ah
<AlanBell> zleap: less network transparency and more OpenGL
<zleap> so that means games are easier to write and other software that needs OpenGL
<zleap> so less network transparency means more secure right
<AlanBell> not sure it will make much difference to writing stuff that needs openGL
<zleap> but it means more stuff like compiz etc
<AlanBell> and I wouldn't think it is particularly more secure
<zleap> ok
<zleap> so what does that mean then
<AlanBell> might be better performance
<zleap> ah
<zleap> sounds good
<tombrough> will wayland support the X networking protocols?
<zleap> looking at the link posted earlier yes,  as its going to be backward compatable
<zleap> http://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html
<zleap> so is the switch to wayland ubuntu only or part of a longer term stragegy across distros
<dutchie> so far, i think it's only ubuntu out of the major distros that have said they are considering wayland
<popey> fedora have too
<zleap> ah
<popey> and mint say they'll wait and see
<zleap> maybe there could be a wubuntu that can be a test bed for wayland development
<popey> i dont think that would be helpful
<zleap> ah
<popey> it should be in the main distro so that its exposed to more people
<AlanBell> it is not ready for anything yet
<popey> indeed, this is all some way off
<zleap> ah
<zleap> sounds good though
<AlanBell> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/11/20/christmas-party/
<dutchie> when is that going to stop being beta.?
<dutchie> and i like the "no sprouts" rule
<AlanBell> "soon"
<finelytuned> how do i take ownership of a folder containing multiple files thats been given to me
<penguin42> finelytuned: chown -R yourusername directory
<finelytuned> penguin42: ty
<finelytuned> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2010-11-21
<virmin> Evenin' all
<virmin> Quick(ish!) question... if you currently had 3 x 1.5TB disks in a RAID 10, and has another matching disk spare... would you a) keep it as a hot-spare, or b) migrate your data onto other disks and re-use the existing three and the new one, in a new 4-disk RAID10?
<penguin42> how are you doing RAID10 with 3 disks?
<virmin> mdraid
<virmin> and far too
<penguin42> no, I mean how do you get 10 with 3 disks - 10 is normally mirror+stripe, I don't see how to do that with 3
<virmin> Yeah, it's using softraid:
<virmin> cat /proc/mdstat
<virmin> Personalities : [raid10] [linear] [multipath] [raid0] [raid1] [raid6] [raid5] [raid4]
<virmin> md2 : active raid10 sdd2[2] sdb2[0] sdc2[1]
<virmin>       2197414656 blocks 256K chunks 2 far-copies [3/3] [UUU]
 * penguin42 still doesn't get what md actually does when you ask it for a raid10 on 3 discs
<virmin> "normal" RAID10, yes, would require 4 disks but, mdraid has a non-standard implementation
<virmin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-standard_RAID_levels#Linux_MD_RAID_10
<virmin> I was hoping to be able to add the fourth disk to it, and it would sort itself out but, this is still not implemented... for understandable reasons as well!
<penguin42> well, I didn't know it could do that
<penguin42> I'd add a 4th drive as a hot spare
<penguin42> mind you, it's all swings and roundabouts
<hamitron> whenever I want to change mine, I find it hard to find somewhere to move teh data while I rebuild everything :/
<virmin> Yup, and I didn't realise when I build the array, that I couldn't grow it either :/
<virmin> I've got the 4 x 1.5TB disks but, "only" has 1.3TB of data, and have an assortment of other disks to hand... a couple of 1TB SATAs, and a rake of PATA's
<hamitron> so it sounds like you are better kitted out than me :)
<virmin> The disadvantage I have, is that this box is a server, and has multiple domain name MX records pointed at it... I could do without the downtime
<virmin> It it though, purely personal, so I could direct my mail to a gmail account and deal with it later of course
<virmin> The missus would be displeased if I accidentally read one of the email detailing my xmas presents! :D
<hamitron> you not got a spare machine to swap in?
<virmin> Only other machines these days are laptops/netbooks
<virmin> looked early at a NAS box but, wasn't overly keen on them
<hamitron> my main fileserver is a NAS now
<virmin> Might have to export my data to a single disk, then sort the OS first and look at data when the time comes
<hamitron> or you could be lazy and just not do anything... if everything is working ;)
<hamitron> but that is boring, so don't listen to me
<virmin> There is that.  The existing LVMs df-h --total reads:  "total                 1.7T  1.3T  351G  79%"
<virmin> I've 300GB left unallocated on the RAID
<virmin> Just a bit miffed having paid Â£65 for another disk that I can't easily play with...
<hamitron> yeh
<virmin> I'm sure I've got a 1TB SATA disk sat unused in my hd streamer box
<virmin> The other 1TB disk failed (this was my old RAID0 job)
<hamitron> I'm on RAID 0 now :/
<hamitron> which itself is not a bad thing
<hamitron> main problem is I have run out of space on my servers, so I have data stored on it :/
<virmin> I moved from RAID0 (two disks) to RAID10 (three disks)
<virmin> You know the risks with RAID0 though
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> tbh, I never run RAID on my fileserver here
<hamitron> if I was to run raid, it would be mirroring... but I choose to use the extra disk as a backup medium because uptime is not important to me
<virmin> The RAID is just for uptime... I've got automated backups of essential data but, I'd like to keep the likes of AV online too
<virmin> I've got 2 x RAID10's, one for /boot, and the other is the remainder of the disks, which I make use of LVM2 over
<hamitron> can you not remove the 3rd disk to be left with striping, then add them both after?
<virmin> Pretty non-standard
<hamitron> to have true RAID 10
<virmin> Nope... as it's not RAID-1 over RAID-0 in the true sense... it's the funky mdraid-10 implementation
<hamitron> ah
<hamitron> :)
<virmin> At the moment, I'm thinking I'd best leave it be, and keep the new drive as a hot-swap
<hamitron> that is certainly easiest
<virmin> I'm getting average reads over 300MB/s anyway
<virmin> They're Seagate 7200.11's
<virmin> I need more SATA ports!
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> that was my next question
<virmin> Got 4 on the mobo, and 2 x 2 PATAs
<hamitron> "any spare sata ports?"
<hamitron> :D
<virmin> Got one PATA device, and that's my DVDRW
<virmin> Best hope I don't need more space soon then! :)
<Azelphur> who wants to play help the Azelphur build the aquarium to house his new PC? :D
<virmin> I would do if VirtualBox x64 worked for me
<hamitron> you don't sound as greedy as some here
<hamitron> speak of the devil, Azelphur
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> you spoke of me? :D
<hamitron> "as greedy as some here"
<virmin> This box is up 24/7 365 anyway... unless a new kernel needs a reboot
<virmin> I'm running 10,04 on that box
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> 10,04 to me is like new :/
<virmin> Got 10.10 on my netbook... missus still has 10.04 on her laptop
<Azelphur> so, I'm building the motherboard tray out of acrylic which will be cool
<Azelphur> I'm sorta pondering the aquarium problem, Acrylic won't really be strong enough for it
<hamitron> Azelphur: why?
<virmin> Fish?
<Azelphur> hamitron: because acrylic is cheap and lightweight and as transparent as glass?
<Azelphur> hamitron: did you not hear the whole submerged computer plan?
<virmin> I keep reptiles myself... not a good mix... heat for them, cool for the PC
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I want to do mineral oil submersion
<hamitron> I just don't see why acrylic would not be strong enough
<Azelphur> hamitron: for an aquarium with 5 gallons of mineral oil in it?
<virmin> Depends upon the volume of liquid maybe?
<Azelphur> and I can only find 3mm acrylic
<Azelphur> acrylic is pretty bendy
<virmin> gallons... millimeters?  Stick to imperial or metric ;)
<Azelphur> virmin: google 5 gallons in <x> for your preferred unit :)
<hamitron> you could build a metal frame
<virmin> (he says pouring a pint of vodka, and ginger ale)
<Azelphur> hamitron: nah, that wouldn't look too cool
<hamitron> but I reckon 3mm is thick enough if built correctly
<Azelphur> virmin: 40 pints lol
<virmin> thanks Azelphur, I already knew that but... keeping lizards, it's not so much overall volume that matters but, overall dimensions :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<virmin> ;)
<Azelphur> hamitron: I dunno, I have a sheet of 3mm acrylic already for the motherboard tray
<Azelphur> It's really quite bendy
<Azelphur> I'd prefer to go overkill on the aquarium...I mean it is going to be holding 5 gallons of oil in my bedroom
<Azelphur> that shit breaks and I'm going to be murdered
<hamitron> could you not buy a tank for the task?
<Azelphur> I could but I wasn't much a fan of hacking a tank
<virmin> You want to count yourself lucky... smallest enclosure for mine is 1m x 0.5m x 0,5m
<Azelphur> virmin: lol
<Azelphur> I guess I could buy one though
<Azelphur> might be difficult to find a motherboard sized aquarium
<hamitron> the main concern I'd have, is the joints if you are just fitting sheets together
<hamitron> assuming you find the rigid enough sheets
<virmin> Heheh... smallest for the most demanding is 1.25m x 1.25m x 0.5m
<virmin> ;)
<hamitron> :|
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> maybe buy a tank and hack it instead then, It would be more reliable
<hamitron> you could mount the clear sheet you got in it
<hamitron> to put the mobo on?
<Azelphur> yes that's what I want to do
<Azelphur> the sheet I have is for the mobo either way
<virmin> If you kept chinese water dragons, you could mix the water cooling on your processor with heating their pool! :D
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> so yea, first things first I suppose I need to get this nice sheet of acrylic made into a mobo tray :D
<hamitron> and you could use your arduino for climate control Azelphur
<Azelphur> and for that I need a cheap drill, suggestions? :D
<hamitron> gets too cold, overclocks the cpu
<Azelphur> hamitron: haha :D
<Azelphur> hamitron: I was thinking more attach huge radiators and overclock an i7 to 5ghz
<virmin> If I was in your shoes, I'd be making a second sealed enclosure for my PC... bit like double-insulation
<hamitron> you are using the oil for cooling?
<Azelphur> virmin: yea I thought of that, if I build it myself I probably will, if I buy an aquarium maybe not
<Azelphur> hamitron: yes
<hamitron> or vacuum sealed so no noise....
<Azelphur> both?
<hamitron> hmmm
<virmin> Vacuum sealed... need to overcome the additional pressure exhorted by the water-tank
<hamitron> would a comp work in a vacuum?
<virmin> The weight of the water would be greater than normal atmospheric pressure
<virmin> And, even then, it's temperature dependant
<Azelphur> hamitron: I was just talking about air tight really
<Azelphur> like a normal aquarium
<Azelphur> it doesn't need to be completely silent, I'm not too finicky about that
 * hamitron is
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> I'm quite happy with my Antec 1200 that has like 6 fans in it and I sleep in the same room
<virmin> f*** me, and I thought I was insane with my RAID madness
<virmin> :D
<hamitron> even though my fans are at 0 rpm atm :/
<Azelphur> granted the fans are on low, but I doubt my aquarium rig will get anywhere near that load no matter what I do
<Azelphur> loud*
<Azelphur> hamitron: my basic idea to start with was to get the aquarium sorted and a radiator and a filter
<hamitron> filter?
<Azelphur> apparently it builds up dust over a while
<hamitron> ah :)
<hamitron> thought you were going to change the oil to water, and have tropical fish in with the mobo
<Azelphur> puget systems have had an oil cooled rig running for 3 years now
<Azelphur> haha :D
<virmin> My Antec 1200 case needs its filters cleaning every few weeks :(
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> virmin: I havn't looked at my antec 1200's filters in a year
 * Azelphur runs
<hamitron> I never get clogged filters in mine
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> so yea first things first drill to make holes in acrylic, suggestions?
<Azelphur> doesn't need to be an amazing drill, cheap and cheerful is good for me
<virmin> The room mine's in, is down to bare plaster...
<hamitron> suggestions for what?
<Azelphur> hamitron: a drill
<hamitron> screwfix?
<hamitron> ebay?
<Azelphur> no particular brands that are good?
<hamitron> Dad's toolbox
<hamitron> hmmm
<Azelphur> hamitron: except me and my dad havn't talked in over a year :p
<hamitron> imo, it shouldn't matter if you are doing something light
<Azelphur> cheep and cheerful little drill from argos? http://tinyurl.com/27yq6f4
<hamitron> in soft acrylic you could just about use a drill bit with your fingers ;)
<Azelphur> haha yea true, acrylic is pretty weak
<hamitron> some is
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> also don't suppose you happen to know the bolts/risers/... I'm going to need to mount the motherboard?
<hamitron> think about it
<hamitron> you don't need a drill
<hamitron> you could just use wood screws
<hamitron> unless you feel it would be too weak
<Azelphur> I'm a weakling and I'd probably end up messing up if I didn't have something to cut through it like butter
<Azelphur> hamitron: happen to know the stuff I need nut/bolt wise?
<Azelphur> I assume I'd need a bolt with a couple nuts either side and some washers to raise the mobo properly
<hamitron> that is 1 option
<hamitron> but I'd use 1 nut
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> the other cool idea I had would be to put the motherboard on draw type rails so I could lift the motherboard up and suspend it above the aquarium for maintenance
<hamitron> could use a star washer if you feel vibration will be high
<hamitron> or build a hydralics system the comp comtrols?
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> controls
<virmin> Why not hand drill it?
<Azelphur> (01:51:09) Azelphur: I'm a weakling and I'd probably end up messing up if I didn't have something to cut through it like butter
<virmin> Ah
<hamitron> you could probably use an old soldering iron
<virmin> Sorry, was sampling some JD & ginger
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> haha I doubt that'd come out neat somehow
<hamitron> probably not :)
<Azelphur> I'd be dubious as to how neat hand drilled would come out too even if I wasn't a feeble person :p
<hamitron> another option....
<hamitron> cut the thread off these: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PC-COMPUTER-PLASTIC-SCREW-IN-MOTHERBOARD-STANDOFFS-X-10-/380288890431?pt=UK_Computing_DesktopComponents_RL&hash=item588afbf63f
<hamitron> and glue them on
<hamitron> or even glue them in a hole without taking the thread off
<Azelphur> and the motherboard just drops onto them like a clip?
<hamitron> yes
<Azelphur> no need for screws I sorta like it
<hamitron> not as strong
<Azelphur> they look a bit flimsy though I wonder if they'd stand up in oil
<Azelphur> yea
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> the weight of the cpu cooler would worry me more
<Azelphur> yea, It's gonna be a big one
<hamitron> oh yeh ;/
<Azelphur> as big as possible in order to have maximum oil contact
<Azelphur> so yea probably best to stick with big ol chunks of metal for that one
<hamitron> how often does it need an oil change?
<Azelphur> it doesn't
<hamitron> or service :D
<Azelphur> ^ in theory
<hamitron> I'd personally go for super glue with the clips
<hamitron> and drill/tap holes in the acrylic for them
<Azelphur> http://www.ixbt.com/cpu/coolx/zalman9700/zalman9700-onmobo.jpg I'm probably sticking something at least that big on there
<hamitron> and apply glue to thread to hold them tight
<hamitron> have you never used these clips?
<Azelphur> no
<Azelphur> I've never really built a computer before, that's what makes this extra fun
<hamitron> :(
<hamitron> now I am worrying
<Azelphur> I mean I know the usual stuff, I shuffle HDDs and Opticals every 5 minutes
<hamitron> your first comp build will be an oil tank?
<Azelphur> and I've replaced the odd PSU
<Azelphur> yup, I'm crazy
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> haha
<Azelphur> I also reflashed my G1 (Â£200), Linksys WRT610N (Â£120?) and hard-modded my G19 (Â£120) all within an hour of unboxing
<Azelphur> :D
<directhex> the zalman 9700 is small by modern standards
<hamitron> I reckon the clips would hold it
<Azelphur> directhex: just some random zalman cooler I google'd, havn't selected a cooler yet
<Azelphur> hamitron: but yea that's why I'm talking a lot about it pretty much everywhere, getting lots of good input from everyone so hopefully it'll come out ok :D
<directhex> http://www.pcper.com/images/reviews/125/Mtd-15.jpg isn't that big anymore either
<hamitron> oh Azelphur, is it mounted vertically?
<Azelphur> I'mma build and test the tank before I buy any hardware so worst case scenario I waste the money I spent on the tank
<Azelphur> directhex: haha
<Azelphur> hamitron: yea
<Azelphur> I could change that I suppose, it would solve the heat sink weighing half a tonne and bending the mobo
<directhex> http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/Scythe-Orochi-Meet-the-Largest-CPU-Cooler-Ever-4.jpg/ ?
<Azelphur> would be easier to access the board too wouldn't need the drawer rails
<Azelphur> directhex: haha, bet that'd go good in oil
<hamitron> do you have an oil pump for this?
<directhex> mineral oil cooling? good luck.
<Azelphur> directhex: ty :D
<Azelphur> hamitron: nope
<hamitron> directhex: for his first comp build ;/
<hamitron> gets better \o/
<Azelphur> hamitron: no point building if you don't have fun with it *shrug*
<ali1234> building computers isn't exactly hard though
<ali1234> chosing the right cmponents is hard
<hamitron> true
<Azelphur> ^ true
<ali1234> plugging them all in isn't
<Azelphur> but yea with the whole oil thing I'm just taking everything one step at a time, not running out and spending Â£1.6k on the hopes it'll work here
<directhex> pfft
<Azelphur> If this fails I'll probably loose no more than Â£50
<directhex> oil's for wusses
<Azelphur> directhex: haha, what's wrong with oil? :D
<directhex> real men run phase change cooling
<hamitron> water \o/
<Azelphur> directhex: also that heat sink is pretty cheap I could actually buy that lol
<Azelphur> tis only $80
<directhex> actually, phase change is totally old hat now too
<Azelphur> I don't think any form of water cooling can come close to mineral oil
<directhex> real men just put a giant metal hollow cylinder on their cpu, and keep pouring liquid nitrogen into it
<Azelphur> just by the simple logic of copper > any liquid
<hamitron> "real men", haha
<Azelphur> directhex: haha, true true :D
<directhex> fwiw you can buy a retail motherboard where that's the cooling solution just for the mobo chipset
<directhex> not the cpu, just the mobo chipset
<hamitron> "real men" have nothing lacking, so have no need to try make up for it in other ways ;/
<Azelphur> directhex: yea but imo mineral oil is about as good as it gets short of dice/nitro/hydrogen
<directhex> http://www.foxconnchannel.com/product/motherboards/detail_overview.aspx?id=en-us0000430 - " Swap out the NB parts to configure it for air, water or more extreme forms of cooling!"
<Azelphur> and of course flurinert
<Azelphur> basically mineral oil is about the best bang for your buck cooling
<directhex> Azelphur: ever wondered why it's so uncommon?
<Azelphur> directhex: because it's difficult to maintain
<Azelphur> and ship
<Azelphur> and it's generally a nightmare for anyone but an enthusiast
<hamitron> why the need to have the mobo swimming in it?
<Azelphur> hamitron: because then you can have heat sinks the size of a small planet
<directhex> Azelphur: i'm talking about enthusiasts.
<Azelphur> directhex: dunno, it scares people I think
<Azelphur> the enthusiasts all say "eww, dirty"
<Azelphur> at least that's the reaction I got from various enthusiasts and blogs
<hamitron> what scares me, would be wanting to change hdd and stuff and the mess :/
<directhex> Azelphur: oil cooling is way, way, way, way, way off the bottom of the popularity list. second hand vapochills are way more common
<Azelphur> they want to constantly tweak and oil submersion makes this difficult
<Azelphur> directhex: why do you think it's uncommon?
<Azelphur> hamitron: hdd/optical stays out
<hamitron> that makes it boring then :/
<Azelphur> hamitron: not really they don't need cooling just pointless heat generation :p
<directhex> Azelphur: because i hang around pc enthusiast communities, and i have never heard of anyone doing mineral oil other than as a joke
<hamitron> my hdd are the hottest part of my comp
<Azelphur> psu probably stays out too
<hamitron> hmmm
<Azelphur> directhex: well it the premise of full submersion obviously works reasonably well, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it with super computers
<Azelphur> granted they are using flurinert but mineral oil isn't a bad budget alternative to that
<hamitron> you know how the chip frier gets solid bits in the oil? :/
<ali1234> aren't all supercomputers built of white box commodity  PCs these days?
<directhex> Azelphur: which supercomputers would those be?
<directhex> ali1234: yes
<Azelphur> directhex: most if not all of the cray series
<ali1234> if they melt you just buy some more and its no big deal
<Azelphur> ali1234: indeed
<ali1234> i'm not convinced about this mineral oil plan :)
<ali1234> i can see several problems
<Azelphur> ali1234: go for it
<directhex> Azelphur: cray isn't immersion based
<ali1234> first, you still going to have hot spots just like with air cooling
<hamitron> I have visions of the oil clogging up the fins
<Azelphur> ali1234: yup,
<directhex> Azelphur: current gen cray is phase change
<Azelphur> hamitron: fans survived fine in that 3 year old puget systems box
<ali1234> second, the oil isn't conductive when you build it... but it only takes one leaking capacitor...
<directhex> Azelphur: you're thinking of the cray 2, which is... not relevant in 2010
<Azelphur> directhex: true
<ali1234> third, it will be super heavy...
<directhex> of the modern generation of crays, XT3/4 are air cooled, XT5 is phase change
<Azelphur> ali1234: heavy really couldn't care less about
<Azelphur> it's not moving anywhere :p
<ali1234> well as long as you don't put it on the second floor of your house... you will get cracks in the clielings below and stuff :)
<ali1234> *ceilings
<Azelphur> directhex: does phase change require constant refuelling?
<hamitron> "Azelphur: I'm a weakling"
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> ali1234: I'm on the 3rd floor and I have a huge desk quad screen and an antec 1200 up here
<directhex> Azelphur: no. but for consumer phase change, it requires very careful handling of condensation
<hamitron> slightly misquoted
<Azelphur> ali1234: I doubt that the tank will weigh more than a person, or a populated cupboard. I don't think it's that bigger deal
<directhex> Azelphur: sub-zero temperatures means condensation and.or ice forming on nearby components
<Azelphur> I like this sub-zero part though
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> i'd be worried about the fire hazard too
<Azelphur> ali1234: I checked into the fire hazard stuff the ignition point of mineral oil is 170C, plus the obvious lack of oxygen in a submerged environment, it should act as a fire suppressant
<Azelphur> but I am totally interested in phase change :)
<Azelphur> directhex: how much does a phase change kit set you back?
<directhex> Azelphur: 500 or so, starting price? :>
<Azelphur> youch, there goes half mu budget :p
<ali1234> phase change needs a compressor though right?
<hamitron> why not just get a bit nicer comp?
<ali1234> so it's not going to be quiet
<hamitron> ie more ram
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> so I guess the question I should be asking is, "Is mineral oil cooling cost effective compared to other cooling methods"
<Azelphur> I reckon I can build the mineral cooling setup for about Â£150, so what could I get for that?
<hamitron> air is cheapest imo
<Azelphur> but I wouldn't be able to clock it very high
<ali1234> CPU is not the bottleneck these days anyway
<ali1234> crap software is :(
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> I'd rather have 16Gb RAM with air cooling, than 8Gb with oil
<Azelphur> hamitron: and I'd rather have 6GB than 8GB for tri channel
<hamitron> gotta get 24Gb then :/
<Azelphur> http://game.azelphur.com/forum/building-my-dream-oil-submerged-computer take a look at the hardware I picked out so far
<hamitron> or 15gb
<hamitron> if you can get 15
<hamitron> ;/
<directhex> ocz has a budget system
<Azelphur> directhex: 1k is budget? :/
<directhex> $379.99
<directhex> for phase change, that's budget
<Azelphur> oh that ain't bad for phase change
<Azelphur> but I'm in the UK here, I doubt I'll get it for the US price
<hamitron> 850W psu?
<hamitron> geez
<Azelphur> hamitron: gotta remember I was intending on clocking this a lot
<hamitron> suppose
<hamitron> but 850W is a lot of power in todays "green" mindset
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> when I get rich I'll build a wind farm to offset my power hungry activities.
<Azelphur> directhex: what's the model of that phase change?
<Azelphur> I'll try and find it cheap
<hamitron> criminal to put such a nice spec comp in oil :/
<directhex> cryo-z. but as standard it only has 755 and am2 mounts. the modern mounts are exclusive to frozencpu.com
<Azelphur> yea I'm starting to move over to you guys way of thinking on the mineral oil idea
<Azelphur> I see
<virmin> synthetic then!?
<virmin> *rejoins*
<Azelphur> lol
<virmin> Sorry, there's been a lot of chat since I was last on, and it's late/early so as I'm unlikely to hang about much, I'll just play catchup :)
<hamitron> Azelphur: you have Â£120 left
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> I can go over a bit if necessary
<hamitron> sounds like enough for a good case and air cooling to me
<virmin> lol... sounds like me!  I set a ball-park entry price... then go overboard! :D
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I am mostly the other way
<virmin> Fortunately Mrs V doesn't care less, it's my money
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> I gave myself Â£300 for upgrades lately, and have settled at spending Â£94
<virmin> I upgrade rarely
<virmin> When I do, it tends to be during winter, when I'm stuck in at home and not wanting to do much outdoors! :D
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I only decided to because I got a new game that struggled
<virmin> She doesn't care, as long as her laptop's working and I'm serving her email :)
<hamitron> I like to use stuff till it breaks :/ computers never break fast enough
<virmin> I soft-modded her wii for games
<Azelphur> well, I'm depressed now I've been dreaming about building the amazing submerged oil rig for 4 years :p
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> lol
<hamitron> build a leaning tower of mobo
<virmin> The wii mod, was on the promise that if it went wrong, I'd buy her another one! :D
<ali1234> get a hexapod robot instead, or something
<ali1234> much more entertaining
<hamitron> design and build a robot \o/
<Azelphur> ali1234: nooo, the flying ones are better
<hamitron> or learn electronics first ;)
<ali1234> you don't need to know electronics to build robots these days
<Azelphur> directhex: what's your opinion on bong/evaporation cooling?
<ali1234> build it with openservos
<Azelphur> or anyone else feel free to chip in
<hamitron> pfffffft
<Azelphur> that's the other idea that's been thrown around
<virmin> ./configure && make && make install ;)
<hamitron> fun to "know it all"
<hamitron> ;/
<virmin> I'm gonna go up to bed after this next drink, I'm rather well done! :|
<hamitron> :)
<virmin> Right, I'm off... cheers for the RAID chat :)
<StudentSam> I hate how my university internet connection blocks SMTP; I can't send email using Evolution. :(
<daubers> Morning
<danfish> hello
<daubers> This is _awesome_ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLgJ7pk0X-s
<danfish> they are rather good - saw them in concert a few months ago
<Zabadda> Morning
<Zabadda> I have just reinstalled Windows and Ubuntu on my drive as a dual boot (windows first) but when I restart Grub does not pick up the windows partition, but I can mount it when booted in Ubuntu so its there somewhere, any ideas how to get grub to pick it up?
<directhex> Zabadda: what does "sudo os-prober" return?
<Zabadda> command not found :P lol
<neptune> anybody used pstack before? when i run it , it complains " opening object file: No such file or directory". anybody to help?
<MartijnVdS> what is it?
<nperry> Zabadda: I suggest sudo apt-get install os-prober
<nperry> Zabadda: then run it
<Zabadda> ah ok let's see...
<Zabadda> /dev/sda1:Windows Vista (loader):Windows:chain
<nperry> Should have added it to grub now for you
<Zabadda> oh really ok let me restart and ill report back :)
<Zabadda> nope still nothing in grub
<Zabadda> what is annoying is ive done this loads of times before in the past and never had a problem
<finelytuned> morning all
<Zabadda> morning
<jacobw> morning
<directhex> Zabadda: after installing os-prober, run sudo upddate-grub
<Zabadda> ah ha!
<Zabadda> Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic-pae
<Zabadda> Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-2.6.35-22-generic-pae
<Zabadda> Found memtest86+ image: /boot/memtest86+.bin
<Zabadda> Found Windows Vista (loader) on /dev/sda1
<Zabadda> looks like that might of done it
<Zabadda> ok back in a sec
<Zabadda> woo! cheers for the help its fixed!
<Zabadda> any ideas why it went wrong tho?
<Zabadda> right ill get on reinstalling everything now so cheers guys
<bigcalm> Hi kids
<finelytuned> o/
<nucc1> has anyone here had any trouble using a nameserver because "its not listed at the foreign registry"?
<popey> lo bigcalm
<popey> bigcalm: I've started making a railway to connect all my houses :)
<dutchie> hmm
<dutchie> i could either use today to get ahead on problem sheets, or i could get minecraft
<bigcalm> popey: I guess it's heavy on the iron?
<popey> yeah
<popey> I've also got a little base near my spawn and started digging in single directions n, w, s, e, and keep discovering caves I've explored already :)
<dutchie> right, minecraft it is
<jacobw> o/ dutchie
<dutchie> hi jacobw
<jacobw> i need to get started on minecraft, i've got it now, i've even got a spare PC to dedicate to it
<popey> lol
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<bigcalm> I've been digging a pit, but started it from a tunnel. It's peaceful not being intrupted by creepers or spiders
<bigcalm> About to open up the pit to the sky. Made 128 blocks of glass last night
<bigcalm> This is what my life has become :(
<AlanBell> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/11/20/christmas-party/
<AlanBell> oh, not the link I thought I had on the clipboard!
<AlanBell> http://prezi.com/laeej1m7xjji/overview-zoomy-presentation-stuff-with-opengl/  <- that one
<danfish> that's rather good AlanBell
<danfish> any links for code etc?
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/overview-project
<AlanBell> so far it displays a red ball in a window
<bigcalm> Oh my
<bigcalm> I've just cracked the floor of my pit and there's lava below
<dutchie> that was a good start
 * dutchie starts again
<bigcalm> dutchie: it's a hard game to start
<dutchie> i will try not to drown this time
<bigcalm> Look up "surviving day one in minecraft" on youtube
<popey> dutchie: spacebar prevents you drowning
<popey> swim up
<popey> also make good use of minecraftwiki
<bigcalm> I have the recipe page printed out
<czajkowski> ello folks
<jacobw> we need a minecraft section on the new website as well as a recipes section
<bigcalm> czajkowski: *hugs*
<popey> lo
<dutchie> haha, didn't expect cacti to sting me
<danfish> I think an addiction support section on the website might be better :)
<danfish> (to include angry bird addicts like myself)
<AlanBell> hi czajkowski
<czajkowski> looking at flights at this time of the morning is confusing
<czajkowski> :s
<AlanBell> leaving us already?
<czajkowski> heh
<popey> AlanBell: i guess you need two halves really, the editor and the player
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> editor will probably be gedit and an XML or json file
<AlanBell> ooooh json in CouchDB
<czajkowski> AlanBell: trying to see if it's an option to head home to susprise my dad for his bday
 * dutchie tries to work out why he can't make a torch
<popey> stick and coal
<dutchie> that's what i'm doing
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dan Fish] GU10 halogen bulbs are bad - http://www.ossmedicine.org/home_automation/11/gu10-halogen-bulbs-are-bad/
<bigcalm> dutchie: one stick & one coal
<bigcalm> Doesn't need a workbench to be made
<danfish> hmm - that wasn't supposed to turn up on the planet :(
<AlanBell> danfish: but it did and I just read it because it sounded interesting
<danfish> :)
<dutchie> http://ubuntuone.com/p/QDJ/
<shauno> I didn't realise you were playing minecraft.  suddenly the torch comments are a lot more mundane
<popey> dutchie: thats flint, not coal
<dutchie> that would explain it
<popey> i made the same mistake :)
<bigcalm> A boat can be used on water
<bigcalm> Is there anything that can be used on lava?
<popey> no
<popey> you can make obsidian with lava though
<bigcalm> About to try that
<bigcalm> Water poured over lava?
<popey> yes
<popey> needs to be flat lava, not flowing lava
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> That's weird. I have both water and lava at the bottom of my pit
<bigcalm> I've been playing minecraft so much, my space bar now squeaks :(
 * dutchie goes back to hunting for coal
<bigcalm> dutchie: try vertical rock faces
<bigcalm> http://twitpic.com/38us4y
<awilkins> Is that obsidian?
<bigcalm> I assume that I need an iron pick to mine it
<awilkins> I have no idea - I own minecraft, but I'm not a junkie :-)
 * bigcalm cracks up
<bigcalm> I was holding a bucket of water and then closed the door to my house
<bigcalm> Instantly flooded my house
<awilkins> I saw a very funny video where a guy was trying to demonstrate creating permanent fire in the hearth of his communal log cabin. He learned the advisability of incorporating a fireback into your designs.
<bigcalm> Damn it
<bigcalm> Spent about a minute mining just one block of obsidian with an iron pick and got nothing for it :(
<awilkins> I guess it's diamond or nothing
<jacobw> what is the minecraft server to be on?
<dutchie> a few folks play on the linux outlaws one
<dutchie> ooh, finally found some coal
<popey> jacobw: there's lot of servers, most people play on their own first though
<popey> however.. gordallott.com is a good one to try :)
 * popey is on it right now
<popey> bigcalm: you need diamond for obsidian i think
<bigcalm> Poop
<bigcalm> I have loads of obsidian blocks waiting to be minded
<bigcalm> mined
<popey> they're not going anywhere
<popey> jump on gords server :)
 * bigcalm wants!
<bigcalm> hokay
<dutchie> right, one shelter knocked up
<bigcalm> How do you get a shelter preggers?
<dutchie> http://joke.popey.com/
 * dutchie has made a hobbit hole \o/
<Azelphur> anyone / directhex what's your opinion on bong cooling?
<directhex> Azelphur: my opinion is: do it right with air first. worry about fancy cooling later
<Azelphur> but I like doing crazy things :(
<directhex> Azelphur: if you want to splash out on the cooling, try to build a silent air rig. low-noise components top to bottom
<Azelphur> silent doesn't bother me I just want it to be very fast
<Azelphur> so things like SSD and fast RAM and overclocking are what I'm aiming at
<MartijnVdS> Â£5000 PCI-E SSD? 8-)
<gord> y'know what would make it even faster? just waiting 12 months and getting off the shelf stuff
<penguin42> or spending the cost of the wacky cooling things on anothe rnGB of RAM
<directhex> Azelphur: ignoring the lace trim, what about the core of it? cpu? gpu?
<Azelphur> directhex: http://game.azelphur.com/forum/building-my-dream-oil-submerged-computer is the parts I'm looking at
<Azelphur> feel free to pick at it, as I say it's my first build and I don't really know shit
<directhex> Azelphur: i think you want a giant watercooler radiator. there's a company making oil cool kits, with rails etc, and their rad is 9x120mm
<Azelphur> directhex: puget? Yea I know all about them and how their build works
<directhex> Azelphur: midrange gpu seems an odd choice on that build
<TheOpenSourcerer> Azelphur: http://www.hardcorecomputer.com/index.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> Full immersion cooling
<directhex> if it's budget, up the gpu & down the cpu to balance the price
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: seen them too :D
<Azelphur> directhex: what GPU do you think I should get?
<Azelphur> It's gotta be nvidia for the Linux drivers
<directhex> well, fglrx works these days. i have a radeon
<Azelphur> directhex: not very well with wine
<directhex> the geforce 580 is out now (Â£400). or there's the old 480 (Â£330)
<directhex> Azelphur: if you're gaming, buy windows.
<directhex> use wine, tinker with wine, but you really really need windows for a gaming pc
<Azelphur> directhex: I like Linux gaming, I'm a glutton for pain :D
<directhex> Azelphur: i wrote the book on linux gaming. buy windows.
<Azelphur> Gaming isn't my primary use
<Azelphur> I do pretty much everything
<Azelphur> and I switched from windows a few years ago, I like sticking with Linux
<directhex> -_-
<Azelphur> it isn't the greatest for gaming, but it certainly isn't bad
<Azelphur> most of the stuff works
<Azelphur> and I don't want the hassle of continually rebooting
<directhex> your selection of games is DRASTICALLY reduced, and will run with SIGNIFICANTLY reduced image quality and performance. by all means use wine for convenience, but you badly need windows as an option, for when (not if) wine won't do
<Azelphur> I just don't play games that don't run in wine
<Azelphur> It's not that bigger deal to me
<directhex> ._.
<Azelphur> Windows is there if I need it I still have the CD's I've just never bothered to install it
<Azelphur> and the games I play work well in wine
<directhex> good luck with that
<directhex> meanwhile, i bought age of empires 3 with all expansions for 10p this morning
<Azelphur> directhex: been doing it for 3 years now and it's been fine
<Azelphur> I just need a little more power to run TF2 smooth on all max settings (It's a little jittery on my current rig) and I get trouble multitasking while gaming, it's a CPU/GPU bottleneck
<Azelphur> and I don't do bad, I have a 3.07 kdr on TF2 and I'm ranked 12/5380 on my server :)
<Azelphur> I also use a trackball, :D
<Azelphur> and I have 477 sniper kills, 348 of them headshots (72%)
<Azelphur> so Linux gaming works for me.
<penguin42> Azelphur: It's interesting the different way I spec'd my machine; it's nearly a year old now but I bought it for compiling and general fiddling rather than games - I did it for about Â£750 I think
<directhex> because you only play one game from 2007. gotcha
<Azelphur> penguin42: yea, that's pretty much what my current build is
<Azelphur> directhex: I did say gaming isn't my primary use case :)
<Azelphur> I also clock up some time on most source games and a few others, SC2 for example ain't from 2007 :)
<awilkins> What are the Radeons like for multi-monitor support in Linux? I really don't care about the games or 3D stuff, I still have Windows for that
<awilkins> The ATI cards are certainly more attractive from a price / power consumption viewpoint
<Azelphur> probably no better than nvidia lol
<awilkins> I've been resisting GPU upgrades anyway. My GTS 8800 is still fine for most things
<penguin42> multihead normally works well on them on their closed driver, I've not tried multihead on the open driver
<Azelphur> hehe, by multi you mean 2
<Azelphur> >2 is where you become into a world of hurt
<penguin42> Azelphur: What does the Â£148 PSU give you?
<awilkins> 2 is all I need. Don't have enough room on my desk for another 22" widescreen
<awilkins> Â£148 PSU
<Azelphur> penguin42: I wanna overclock and I have a lot of drives
<awilkins> About 1kW of power
<penguin42> Azelphur: Ah OK
<awilkins> 3.5" Drives are about 6-8W apiece these days, right?
<awilkins> Definitely GPU and CPU that eats the electrons
<Azelphur> awilkins: also 2 GPU's since I have quad monitor :)
<awilkins> Erk
<awilkins> Three might be nice. If you could get XWing vs Tie Fighter and similar to support them.
<awilkins> I had my hand on a Saitek X52 earlier in the week. I wish I'd had something that nice to play sim games with 10 years ago
<Azelphur> hehe I'll keep one of my 8800GT's for now as the second pair of monitors is a separate X session and only does mundane things
<awilkins> But everything on PC is mouse, mouse, mouse now
<awilkins> Even that space combat MMO was pretty 2 dimensional
<awilkins> Publisher just aren't up for anything that has a learning curve in case it turns people off.
<lazarus_>  is it possible to make a script that interacts with ubuntu one i.e logs in using SSO and downloads requested files?
<nperry> Wish my cat would appricate that i'm trying to play with unity, rather then keep moving own me when I'm trying to type.. And he digs his claws in
<nperry> Now he is giving me an evil look as im not fussing him
<Azelphur> lol
<nperry> anyhow unity refuses to work on nouveau just comes up with normal gnome wm
<AlanBell> nperry: not a bug, it is an evil cat conspiracy
<AlanBell> so is that compiz unity?
<nperry> Yeah
<nperry> Other unity loved nouveau :/
<suprengr> 'evening all
<nperry> yo
<zetyl> hi there
<zetyl> i got two pc
<zetyl> from windows i connect to ubuntu pc using putty
<zetyl> i want to send a file which is on windows to  ubuntu
<zetyl> what to do ?
<Azelphur> zetyl: winscp
<zetyl> winscp ?
<Azelphur> !winscp
<lubotu3> SCP is a secure way of copying files across networks using !SSH. Usage: scp filename user@host:filename - WinSCP is a client for Windows, available at http://winscp.net/
<zetyl> well using winscp i can see all folder which on my ubuntu pc
<zetyl> but i think you don't understand my question
<zetyl> i need to send a file wich is on windows to ubuntu
<zetyl> how to do ?
<zetyl> is it possible with winscp ?
<AlanBell> it is
<Azelphur> zetyl: ...on the left is your windows pc, on the right is your ubuntu pc...
<Azelphur> drag file, drop file
<zetyl> autant pour moi i forget that one
<zetyl> working now
<zetyl> well how to do the same thing  with scp ?
<zetyl> on cli
<Azelphur> !winscp | zetyl
<lubotu3> zetyl: SCP is a secure way of copying files across networks using !SSH. Usage: scp filename user@host:filename - WinSCP is a client for Windows, available at http://winscp.net/
<amarcolino> Can someone help fix dpkg errors, please look at the output in my pastebin http://paste.ubuntu.com/534970/
<popey> amarcolino: disk full?
<AlanBell> I see a hash prompt
<popey> oooo :)
<zetyl> why filename two times ?
<popey> zetyl: you might want to call it a different name remotely
<amarcolino> popey: not even close
<popey> amarcolino: when did this start happening?
<zetyl> ok thanks a lot
<zetyl> i also heard about gsync
<zetyl> to do the same thing
<zetyl> i don't know how it works ?
<popey> never heard of it
<AlanBell> !info gsync
<lubotu3> Package gsync does not exist in maverick
<popey> I always use scp
<AlanBell> rsync perhaps
<amarcolino> popey: this is the second time happening, no clue what is going on, I believe it's being cause by snaphosts using the web interface of phpvirtualbox compared to using the command line and I prefer not to go back a previous snapshot as I've spent quite a while setting this up
<zetyl> yes rsync
<AlanBell> man:rsync
<AlanBell> quite a lot of switches available for rsync, but basically it syncronises one directory tree with another
<Azelphur> popey: I use sftp the most :)
<AlanBell> doing differential updates of each file so it only passes the changes across
<Azelphur> I wonder if everyone knows about this one or not but I've been using it a lot
<Azelphur> if you fire up nautilus and press ctrl+L, then type sftp://username@address, it mounts a remote machine via sftp/scp
<AlanBell> Azelphur: I use sftp, don't think I have ever used scp
<Azelphur> so you can just browse it as if it was local, I find it really handy :D
<finelytuned> evening all
<suprengr> !infogrsync
<AlanBell> !info grsync
<lubotu3> grsync (source: grsync): GTK+ frontend for rsync. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1.1-1 (maverick), package size 125 kB, installed size 616 kB
<suprengr> cheers AB
<amarcolino> popey: any suggestions
<AlanBell> amarcolino: the permissions error seems surprising as you are running aptitude as root
<AlanBell> could be something not getting execute bit set
<AlanBell> like it being on a noexec mounted disk
<AlanBell> which again seems unlikely
<amarcolino> AlanBell: yup, earlier on had a few options set in fstab noexec was one of them, completely forgot about that the first time and repeated the same mistake the second time, not one of my best moments
<richardsch_> I installed Ubuntu 10.04 on an Evesham Voyager c350, all seems to work except WiFi. Anybody around that can lend a hand?
<suprengr> richardsch_: just a stab in the dark but does it show your wifi but won't connect ?
<DJones> And is it a usb dongle or built in wireless
<richardsch_> no, the "Wireless Networks" is greyed out and a "device not ready" message shows
<richardsch_> it is inbuilt
<DJones> richardsch_: Can you open a terminal & run the command lspci and then put the results in a pastebin for us
<DJones> !paste
<lubotu3> Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<DJones> It might just be that the driver needs to be installed
<richardsch_> will do as told, -but must first lear to use Pastebin.
<DJones> richardsch_: All you need to do is go to the http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org website, copy the results of the command to the website and then click ok/continue & it'll give you a link to the page that you can post here
<richardsch_> Djones, lspci on http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/86387
<richardsch_> I think the drives installs by default with 10.04... ,
<DJones> Just looking up the wifi card
<DJones> Heh, just found your question on ubuntu answers
<richardsch_> Great!
<DJones> Have you tried the solution somebody has suggested in the last few minutes
<richardsch_> I tried a number of things suggested in the forums, other suggestions went over my head
<richardsch_> I'll check my request on Ubuntu Answers
<czajkowski> popey: how do I delete contacts off an iphone ?
<DJones> There seems to be a few different suggestions for that card, doesn't seem as though anybody has got a handle on what the specific problem is
<popey> czajkowski: go to contacts, click the contact, click edit, scroll down, hit delete contact
<czajkowski> one by one...
<czajkowski> feck
<czajkowski> imported the sim contacts on iphone
<czajkowski> and there are numbers thre that mean diddly squat to me
<popey> I sync my phone to google and edit on the web
<popey> i never edit on the phone itself
<richardsch_> DJones, I do not understand the instructions posted by Donald Liu:
<richardsch_> 1. Have this file:
<richardsch_> - /etc/modprobe.d/iwl3945
<richardsch_> 2. Content:
<richardsch_> ---
<richardsch_> alias wlan0 iwl3945
<richardsch_> options iwl3945 disable_hw_scan=1
<Joeb454> +1 for syncing iPhone with Google :)
<popey> !paste | richardsch_
<lubotu3> richardsch_: Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<Joeb454> it's cheaper than mobile me, too :P
<popey> yeah!
<richardsch_> Cheers popey
<DJones> richardsch_: It looks as though he's saying to edit the /etc/modprobe.d/iwl3945 file and add the two lines in point 2 at the end of the file
<richardsch_> Sorry to bore you, how is the file edited?
<DJones> richardsch_: Give me a sec, just need to check something
<DJones> popey: Can you check something for me if you're still around
<richardsch_> DJones, tried to find - /etc/modprobe.d/iwl3945 on my system, it does not appear to be there
<lazarus_> i cant cd /tmp
<DJones> richardsch_:yeah, It looks as though you need to create the file, the only thing I'm not sure about is the filename, every other file I've got in that folder ends in .conf, so I'm just wondering whether this file should be iwl3945.conf or just iwl3945
<DJones> richardsch_: I guess you could just try creating the file, "sudo nano /etc/modprobe.d/iwl3945" and then copy & paste the other two lines into it, then Ctrl-X to save
<DJones> Reboot & try wireless, if nothing has changed, change the filename to add the .conf
<richardsch_> OK, will try
<lazarus_> http://pastebin.com/1Sc1F6pe is there any way of improvin this
<nucc1> bear with my laziness, but is there some way of getting line numbers in emacs? :)
 * penguin42 assumes there is 
<nucc1> can't find any thing whose name would suggest
<KrimZon> does anyone here use silc?
<nucc1> saw a line-numbers toggle, but it seems to have no effect :(
<AlanBell> http://www.emacswiki.org/LineNumbers
<nucc1> ah, seen
<nucc1> the line numbers are not shown on the side, like i expected
<nucc1> he he he
<penguin42>  :set nu     in vi    :-)
<nucc1> he he, my editor of choice is usually gedit, but i have to admit, it sucks as an IDE.
<nucc1> AlanBell, thanks, good info on that link.
<peejay1977> Evening all :)
<nucc1> bon soir
<nucc1> penguin42, alt+m linum-mode in emacs :)
<nucc1> err, alt+x linum-mode
<penguin42> :-)
<penguin42> anyway, TV time
 * nucc1 is falling in love with emacs
<amarcolino> testing proftpd using filezilla using tls for some reason it connects but outputs 'Connection timed out' than 'Failed to retrieve directory listing', need to find out why, what ports other than 21 do I have to open because if I disable ufw I am able to connect
<nucc1> 20, i suspect.
<nucc1> ftp uses two ports.
<nucc1> one for control, and one for data.
<popey> DJones: ?
<DJones> popey: no worries, been sorted now
<amarcolino> nucc1: I got both ports open and it still can't retrieve directory
<nucc1> amarcolino, both server and client are the same machine?
<amarcolino> nucc1: no the client (filezilla) is on my laptop and the server (proftpd) is on the machine
<nucc1> where is the firewall?
<amarcolino> on the machine with proftpd
<nucc1> it seems ftp is troublesome to do behind a firewall. http://slacksite.com/other/ftp.html
<amarcolino> nucc1: maybe but just had a thought, I am implementing tcp_wrapper... will check that out and get back to you...
<AlanBell> ftp is a bit rubbish as a protocol
<AlanBell> just open port 22 and use sftp
<nucc1> yea, that happens to me a lot :0
<nucc1> :)
<amarcolino> AlanBell: would do that but I am going to get a few members logging in, I am doing a project with them so it would help if they could use ftp since most if not all are beginners etc
<amarcolino> nucc1: I doubt that, today I've been forgetting things feels like I am suffering from alzheimer
<nucc1> amarcolino, they can use filezilla for SSH, just like ftp.
<AlanBell> amarcolino: consider using bzr or svn instead
<AlanBell> if they are beginners rather than learning FTP learn something useful
<AlanBell> and something with an undo
<nucc1> svn is probably easiest to grasp
<amarcolino> AlanBell: makes sense and nucc1 maybe but I still don't know how to implement that
<nucc1> ssh is a no brainer, if you just want to upload files to a central place, then ssh is ok.
<AlanBell> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Subversion
<nucc1> but if you're doing something such as web development perhaps, svn, bzr, git etc would be best
<AlanBell> there are lots of gui clients for svn
<AlanBell> http://bazaar.canonical.com/en/
<AlanBell> bzr is great too and you can put your project on Launchpad
<nucc1> amarcolino, if you don't feel like going with svn et al, just install openssh-server and open port 22. its almost identical to FTP, but more firewall friendly, among other things.
<nucc1> every user that logs on would then need to have a system account, and you'll need to configure the appropriate permissions for the shared folder you want them to access.
<amarcolino> I have, I've got ssh and I know how to set-it-up so it locks to one directory which what I need, however, I want to try and sort ftp first
<amarcolino> nucc1, AlanBell, got it working had to set passive ports in the conf file and foward them in ufw and router, I feel so much better now that I worked it out. However, I did not think I actually had to considering ports 20 & 21 are open *sigh* going to get a quick grub
<AlanBell> yay
<UtrinqueParatus> getting people to link your site is an absolute nightmare, i seriously need to raise a budget for an seo expert
<AlanBell> meh, have good content
<AlanBell> don't try to game google
<UtrinqueParatus> it's for a small it support company i'm not sure what content we could provide which is unique and relevant
<UtrinqueParatus> maybe we need to look into adding a blog
<AlanBell> if you are not unique and relevant then you need to address those problems
<UtrinqueParatus> what i mean by that is whatever we post will be second hand regurgitated from the major sites like slashdot etc
<AlanBell> eww
<UtrinqueParatus> i have published a few money saving energy efficiency articles
<AlanBell> why?
<AlanBell> why not write something interesting
<AlanBell> and then get slashdotted
<UtrinqueParatus> you have a very good point however i can't think of anything right now
<amarcolino> can someone explain in simple terms what is IP masquerading and when would someone use it?
<AlanBell> amarcolino: it is NAT
<AlanBell> did that help, or just move the problem?
<UtrinqueParatus> so the answer to my issue is stop being lazy and find interesting things to write about :)
<AlanBell> or *do* interesting things and then write about them
<UtrinqueParatus> what would you suggest the best vehicle for that to be? a blog or extra html pages on the website?
<amarcolino> AlanBell: that made me laugh thanks, can you expand a bit more when would anyone use it, I got a vm with an internal ip of 192.168.*.* however what would masquerading do
<AlanBell> basically acts like a NAT router, so it can transparently route traffic to an internal IP address for a given port
<AlanBell> so you could route port 80 on the IP address of the host to port 80 on the IP address of the VM
<AlanBell> so that other machines think that your host is serving a website, when it is actually the VM. Kind of like a socket level proxy server.
<AlanBell> a domestic ADSL router does NAT
<amarcolino> ok
<amarcolino> I guess it wouldn't apply to me considering the guest already has an internal/public ip and so does the host non are using actual static ips
<amarcolino> got dyndns working with ddclient, I can use the link internally but if I ask others to test it they can't load the page, do I need to set-it-up in apache or is there another way to go about it?
<AlanBell> what is the url?
<AlanBell> ok, nothing responding on port 80 on the outside of that address
<AlanBell> hang on!!
<amarcolino> AlanBell: it might just be me forgetting to open the port in the router
<AlanBell> no, you have somehow reported the internal 192.168 address to dyndns
<AlanBell> how the heck did you do that I wonder
<amarcolino> AlanBell: huh... I have somehow reported... what?
<AlanBell> ping it
<AlanBell> it should resolve to the outside address of your router
<AlanBell> not to 192.168.1.60
<amarcolino> oh hmmm
<amarcolino> I see what you mean :s
<amarcolino> well this should be simpler than my earlier ftp problem
<amarcolino> and why am I listening to pink? *sigh* too tired to make sense of things
<amarcolino> AlanBell: can you try it again please
<AlanBell> It works!
<amarcolino> :D
<amarcolino> oooh that saves me some typing and means I can go to bed soon not before I eat something again
<AlanBell> http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=133475566706516 for facebook type people
<Joeb454> AlanBell: I want mince pies like that!
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/568/detail/ is the main signup sheet
<Joeb454> ah rubbish, it's on my brothers birthday
<AlanBell> Joeb454: I think I ate two of them
<amarcolino> yummy
<Joeb454> as it's his 18th, I don't think I can miss it
<AlanBell> Joeb454: bring your brother \o/
<Joeb454> lol, you wouldn't want him there AlanBell, he's miserable :P
<AlanBell> lol
<Joeb454> he's also expressed that he'd quite like to go to the pub, because he's never been before. So I'm going to take him to the local I reckons
<AlanBell> I appear to have written the facebook article when in a bit of a bah humbug kind of mood
<amarcolino> AlanBell: I might not be in the country from the 17th Dec so might miss that, would've been nice to show up to what would be my first ubuntu related event
<AlanBell> well feel free to like the event or whatever it is one does on Facebook
<amarcolino> will do like the event
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-14
<AlanBell> morning all
<popey> Morning!
<DJones> Morning AlanBell popey
<Pendulum> hi AlanBell
<AlanBell> hi popey DJones and Pendulum who should be asleep
<diplo> Morning all
<Pendulum> AlanBell: I would be if I could be
<czajkowski> Aloha
 * czajkowski frowns at Pendulum 
<Pendulum> czajkowski: this is not by choice :P
<Pendulum> czajkowski: am telling my ex who is WDW obsessed about Characters of Flight
<hoover> Morning
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Scaling Up - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/14/scaling-up/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo and JamesTait
<JamesTait> brobostigon: o/
<brobostigon> does anyone else use bitlbee here, on ubuntu server lts, and getting msn failing?
<brobostigon> JamesTait: o/
<brobostigon> and i fully expect gconf to fail, as it is ugrading on my desktop from gcpnf 2.34 to 3.2.3
<brobostigon> 2.32*
<popey> i haven't logged into msn for months
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> i just noticed, i only turn it on, when i want to talk to a specific person, that is on msn.
<gord> last i heard msn changed the protocol, so all non official clients are broken
<brobostigon> gord: however. empathy works, and that is non-official.
<brobostigon> here anyway.
<gord> shrug, i don't use msn anymore either so don't know a huge amount about it, just something i read a few weeks ago
<brobostigon> ok, i will look on the bitlbee bug tracker, someone must have noticed, and reported it, and written it down.
<popey> actually i might go back to using empathy/pidgin now I have a fixed abode
<jpds> Righto.
<brobostigon> yep, FF9 has failed with the newer gconf.
<Laney> "failed"?
<MooDoo> Laney: sorry about the nottingham gig, i had a poorly daughter :(
<brobostigon> Laney: it threw up an error, saying something along the lines of it couldnt communicate with dbud/gconf.
<brobostigon> dbus*
<Laney> 2.34? you are upgrading from an oneiric system that has not been upgraded since july?
<Laney> also i see no firefox 9
<Laney> MooDoo: i didn't make it either :P
<brobostigon> Laney: i am not on ubuntu, i am on debian sid/experimental.
<MooDoo> Laney: ah ok, don't feel to bad then....
<AlanBell> there were about a dozen people there apparently
<Laney> yeah i heard reports
<Laney> i was in the pub with the missus and the others were incredibly late
<Laney> couldn't leave her alone
<MooDoo> AlanBell: yeah good reports from nottslug, paul sladen was there apparently, although i might have mis read the post
<Laney> brobostigon: also, "firefox in not coming well with system upgrade shocker"
<Laney> and ITYM iceweasel
<brobostigon> Laney: agreed, i fully expected it.
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> I'm drinking coffee out of my oggcamp 11 mug - is this wrong?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: why would it be wrong?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: now if you tell me that you've only purchased one mug, then yes it would be wrong
<MooDoo> you should of got two one for safe keeping :S
<bigcalm> MooDoo: coffee not tea :(
<MooDoo> :D
<bigcalm> MooDoo: Hayley bought a mug as well
<MooDoo> bigcalm: then it's fine :)  just keep hers pristine and it will be worth a few quid in a few years ;)
<popey> http://www.bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/home/2011/11/big-brother-watching-listening.html#.TsDo9vJDPUI   golly
<MooDoo> wow
<bigcalm> Nasty
<MooDoo> remind me not to come darn sarf!
<bigcalm> Might stop the cabbies from chatting though
<MooDoo> doubt that :D
<popey> brobostigon: fwiw I can't connect to msn with empathy today
<bigcalm> People still use msn?
<brobostigon> popey: ah, i havent tried yet, let me try.
<popey> i only connected because brobostigon mentioned it
<brobostigon> ok, her accounts in empathy shows it as connected, but none of my contacts are showing up.
<brobostigon> the accounts*
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i use it, as all my friends use it
<diplo> libpurple is broken, emesene has a fix in place i believe
<bigcalm> Ah. I guess that's the reason why I still use facebook
<diplo> But others are lagging behinf
<diplo> behind*
<MooDoo> i'm connected to pidgen, then again i'm using an older version of Fedora here at work
<czajkowski> one for popey http://images.tomahawk-player.org/elvis.png
<selinuxium> czajkowski, I like it!
<bigcalm> :D
<popey> like that!
<czajkowski> reviewing http://tomahawk-player.org/about
<MooDoo> czajkowski: that looks quite good, have you installed it yet?
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> doing an article on it now
<dogmatic69> would anyone be able to help with my issue http://serverfault.com/questions/330701/504-and-502-with-cherokee-reverse-proxy-to-php-server
<gord> ebuyer sending me emails about their new sales should really be considered a form of mugging
<bigcalm> Heh
<MooDoo> gord: unsubscribe?
<gord> then how would i know about their fantastic new sales? :(
<bigcalm> I was happy to unsubscribe
<bigcalm> Lunch!
<KrisDouglas> I cannot believe it's lunch time already
<MooDoo> me neither, but woohoo
<gord> far too early for lunch yet
<KrisDouglas> i consider between 12 and 4 lunch time :)
<gordonjcp> I found some odd behaviour in banshee
<gordonjcp> every so often - without being on shuffle play or anything - it'll drop in a sneaky wee 808 State track
<bigcalm> gordonjcp: it's one redeeming feature is to play 808 state
<gordonjcp> true
<bigcalm> WAH!
<bigcalm> The Ubuntu loco events page has updated the layout
<bigcalm> Fear change!
<popey> eww thats broken
<AlanBell> where?
<popey> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1412/detail/
<AlanBell> oh, right
<bigcalm> AlanBell: shall we aim for the 9th Dec for the xmas meal? Might get some more people to sign up then
<Daviey> broken?
<AlanBell> it has just been unbroken slightly
<andylockran> :D
<AlanBell> Myrtti: the Model M layout got merged and they are working on a more realistic dish keycap effect to go with it
<Myrtti> whee
<gord> i really do need a new keyboard, normally get logitech but they always break. so i tried microsoft. worst keyboard in the world
<andylockran> gord which one?
<andylockran> I like the standard dell one
<gord> iruno, some terrible one
<gord> the back calls it a "sidewinder X4"
<andylockran> the front calls it a qwertyuiop ?
<gord> very clever ;)
<andylockran> simple mind..
<MooDoo> hello all
 * MooDoo used a microsoft natural
<MooDoo> s/used/uses
<pans> anyone know how to enable chap for PPTP-plugin with network-manager?
<pans> i am running ubuntu 11.10
<popey> AlanBell: whats the on screen keyboard of choice these days?
<KrisDouglas> Still not had any lunch :(
<AlanBell> popey: onboard is OK
<AlanBell> especially if you use it from trunk with the model m theme :)
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> gord: you want a filco keyboard
<gord> AlanBell, quick google doesn't make me think i do ;) keys are too raised
<gord> http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/keyboards/keyboard/devices/4740 is my favourite keyboard ever, could do without the illuminated bit, but a joy to type on
<gord> until it breaks like all logitech stuff does
<buzz_> Â£70 . ouch (logitech mice/keyboards dont last long enough to cost Â£70) :)
<buzz_> as you alreayd said
<BigRedS> My logitec trackballs are all > 3 years old
<BigRedS> there's three of them, though, so perhaps that's why :)
<buzz_> ive had plenty of logitech stuff and ive worn most of it out. my harmony one is still going, (well the second one after the first broke), but then its a remote control that you dont use 8 hours a day
<Azelphur> they last long for me
<Azelphur> I had a logitech G15 I believe it lasted around 5 years with 12-18 hours a day use?
<Azelphur> 5 years with the kind of punishment it gets from me is fair enough :P
<Azelphur> I've had a Logitech trackball for about 10 years that got the same kind of treatment, I replaced it a couple years ago though just because it was ridiculously old.
<buzz_> perhaps trackballs last longer than mice
<buzz_> or ive been unlocky
<buzz_> unlucky
<gord> everything i get of theirs just, dies. and non of their wireless stuff works properly for me
<MooDoo> user error ;)
<gord> i'll get occasional 10-15 seconds of it losing signal so it just sits there doing nothing, or repeating the last key i pressed down constantly
<buzz_> ive had more of a gord experience
<buzz_> i mean even my Â£100 remote broke
<gord> even after changing computer, changing devices and moving house it happens
<buzz_> the only trackball i have is in my tankstick - http://www.atpm.com/12.12/images/tankstick.jpg
<buzz_> :)
<buzz_> much better place for a trackball
<KrisDouglas> My logitech G15 died on me, they do have a rather rough performance/ longevity
<Azelphur> gord: my Logitech headset does seem to work reasonably well
<Azelphur> it occasionally drops out, but I think that's what it does when it's low battery
<buzz_> a eadset has no excuse to break, but then if it is logitech it just might :-)
<gord> all of this is a giant shame, because when it does work, i really like logitech stuff :(
<buzz_> i like my harmony remote. i dont like the fact you need windows or a mac to prorgam it.. however you can do it in virtualbox so
<gord> he harmony remotes look great, but i only really use my ps3 (doesn't work with ps3 without an adapter) and xbmc (use my phone), i don't have much need
 * Seeker` is surprised Azelphur has any electronics more than 30 mins old, given his ability to kill Arduinos.
<Azelphur> :P
<Seeker`> the problem with harmony remotes is the extreme lag between pressing a button and it doing anything. It is a nightmare to use for custom devices (i.e. mythtv) when scrolling etc.
 * Seeker` has a G9, G13, G15, G27, G35
<Seeker`> and a harmony one
<Azelphur> Seeker`: woo, G-Series stuff, you know ali1234 wrote Linux drivers for them right?
<Azelphur>  /awesome/ linux drivers.
<Seeker`> I only really use linux for mythtv atm
<Azelphur> ah
<Seeker`> my desktop is usually in windows mode for gaming
<Azelphur> Seeker`: I play WoW on Linux with my G19 and G13
<Azelphur> I pretty much exclusively use the G-Keys to play
<Seeker`> yeah, I use the G13 and G9, only thing I use the G15 for is typing and Kidney Shot.
<Azelphur> ah, your on WoW too? what realm
<Seeker`> I have a legit copy of windows, didn't see the point in trying to get WoW to work under WINE when it works in windows, and with less chance of it randomly not working
<Seeker`> Bronzebeard
<Seeker`> you?
<Azelphur> khadgar
<Seeker`> hmm, got a lvl 10 or so goblin on there I think
<Azelphur> I'm a guild leader and reliably make raids on Linux. :)
<Azelphur> we're 6/7 FL atm
<Azelphur> raggy going down tonight in theory \o/
<Seeker`> 6/7 heroic here
<Azelphur>  /hate
<Seeker`> 3/7 heroic pre-nerf
<Azelphur> hehe
<Seeker`> what class do you play?
<gord> people still play wow?
<gord> wow
<Seeker`> yes, wow :P
<Azelphur> mage :P
<gord> no idea how people can play one game for so long, i went through three games just last week :P
<Seeker`> woo for two button classes :P
<Azelphur> Seeker`: 2? it's 1.
<Seeker`> ah, macro? :P
<Azelphur> arcane blast arcane blast arcane blast arcane blast... xD
<Seeker`> heh
<Seeker`> the mage in my guild manages 50k on the pull, its stupid
<Azelphur> and he's probably in full HC gear right? :)
<Seeker`> not full
<Seeker`> I beat him over the course of the fight though
<Azelphur> I can pull that single target on a good day.
<Seeker`> I usually hit about 29k on Baleroc heroic over the course of the fight
<Azelphur> fun :)
<Seeker`> but that involves lots of movement etc.
<Azelphur> I'm one piece short of full ruthless too, btw :p
<Seeker`> last time I did Occul'thar on 25 man I hit 33k
<Azelphur> hehe
<Seeker`> only had 1 or 2 bits of heroic gear then
<Azelphur> for my gear, which is mostly FL normal gear, I usually come on top or very close to people in the FL HC gear
<gord> http://www.eegra.com/comics/2008/10/55.png is pretty much my view on the entire thing
<Seeker`> would probably manage 35 or 36k if i went back to assassination
<Seeker`> will look at comics when I'n not at work :P
<KrisDouglas> what in god's name is this conversation leading to? :)
<Myrtti> cheesecake.
<gord> i wish
<KrisDouglas> I have ready salted crisps
<KrisDouglas> you had to choose food though
<KrisDouglas> I am starving
<DJones> Would anybody recommend any particular hardware suppliers? Desktops & monitors, trying to get quotes for 1/2 dozen machines with Win 7 32 bit, and most places seem to be charging Â£100 more per machine for 32 bit instead of 64 bit
<MartijnVdS> why 32?
<MartijnVdS> 32 is only useful if you have legacy Win16 apps I think?
<DJones> Some of the software we use is quite old & the supplier won't certify it for 64bit yet
<DJones> But that software is integral to the business
<gordonjcp> does it work under wine?
<DJones> gordonjcp: I wish, it barely works under windows :)
<MartijnVdS> "certified" ugh
<gordonjcp> complain to the manufacturer
<hamitron> tried it on win7 pro with that xp virtual machine?
<DJones> The supplier has said it "will" work, but they don't support it as yet
<hamitron> typical :/
<DJones> But because its used by every member of staff, most of the day, we can't take a chance on it not working or glitching
<hamitron> any eta on them supporting it?
<MartijnVdS> if they won't give an ETA, be afraid
<DJones> I'm still waiting for them to update it sufficiently for it to be able to integrate with Sage Line 50 2009
<DJones> We're stuck using teh 2008 version of Sage until then
<hamitron> :/
<popey> lolsage
<MartijnVdS> Time to start thinking of migration paths
<selinuxium>  /me hates Sage...
<hamitron> we are still on sage line 50 v5
<hamitron> \o/
<DJones> Is that still the dos version
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> erm, don't think so
<hamitron> I not looked at the accounts comp for ages ;)
<hamitron> "it works"
<hamitron> oh, my mistake, v7.01
<gordonjcp> DJones: well your other option is to pass on the cost to your software supplier
<gordonjcp> "Here you you, you can pay this since your inability to provide updates is now costing us money"
<hamitron> the sad thing is, gonna cost you more for systems that will need upgrading sooner
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> DJones, dell don't charge extra
<DJones> Hmmh, Acer Veriton offers 64/32 bit at pcworld business for Â£80 less than we quoted for the cheapest machines
<ali1234> the windows keys are valid for 32 bit or 64 bit
<ali1234> so you buy the 64 bit one, then reinstall it
<DJones> Thats an option, but its not me installing them, external IT charging Â£49/hr
<ali1234> i mean you have to reinstall anyway to get rid of the crapware
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: restore, because you don't get an installtion CD, just a restore CD
<ali1234> ever heard of msdn?
<hamitron> does a retail dvd work with oem keys now?
<ali1234> no, that requires a bit more poking
<DJones> Is digitalrivercontent.net an official windows distribution source (if anybody has ever heard of it)
<DJones> Ah yes, official e-commerce partner of MS
<DJones> You can download the iso's of Win 7 from their server
<DJones> I can get a Dell Optiplex 380 for Â£299 with Win 7 32bit instead of Â£425
<bigcalm> What would cause one of my screens to go black now and then? This screen is on a 2nd PCI gfx card
<bigcalm> Only started happening this afternoon
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> DVI cable just fell out of the back of the monitor
<bigcalm> Sheesh
<hamitron> super
<hamitron> :)
 * bigcalm makes use of the screws
<JGJones> Hey all
<JGJones> Quick question - is there some sort of a voodoo ritual I need to perform in order to get Ubuntu One to start syncing folders in the Ubuntu One that wasn't created on the computer (I enabled photo sync for Ubuntu One on Android, which make a Picture - phonename but doesn't show on my computer)
<sadsun> it does it in the background for me
<sadsun> automatically... but it isn't terribly fast
<sadsun> JGJones... always forget to add the name, sry
<JGJones> sadsun, I'm aware it's not fast....I agree it's not fast but shirely 4 days is pushing it just a tad?
<sadsun> took a day or 2 to upload 300MB for me...
<sadsun> its free, so I am not complaining...
<sadsun> maybe its faster if u buy extra space, JGJones
<JGJones> sadsun, it's not even near 5MB in my case! :)
<sadsun> o_O okay, hmm... then there might be something wrong then
<JGJones> Files that are created in existing folders works - they're transferred. But new folders? Hmm
<sadsun> can u go to your Ubuntu One Control Panel?
<JGJones> Can anyone confirm it? Creating a new folder with files in it on a different device (in my case - via Android app) will not sync to a computer that is already using using the Ubuntu One account?
<sadsun> I cannot, sry JGJones
<JGJones> sadsun, yup - it'll tell me "File Sync is up-to-date." But just tested on a old laptop - once I created the Ubuntu One logon, it synced the new folder.
<JGJones> Maybe I'll just delete account and re-login and see if that works
 * sadsun crosses his fingers
<JGJones> ok that worked.
 * JGJones puts away chicken that was prepared for voodoo ritual.
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: oh that's what AlanBell keeps chickens for!
<JGJones> Aye.
<JGJones> Why do you think Google campus often have herd of goats roaming around?
<MartijnVdS> and a lot of virgins?
<popey> Evening all!
<MartijnVdS> \o popeyman
<mattt> howzit howzit
<popey> indeed
<Laney> greetings
 * Laney has acquired stilton
<mgdm> achievement unlocked!
<Laney> also green & blacks
<daubers> o/
 * daubers may require a manekin
<popey> mmmmm stilton
<popey> i made red thai curry tonight
<popey> it was yum
<Laney> it is for putting on me steak
 * MartijnVdS has a parsnip, and no idea what to make with it
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Put it on a roasting tray, drizzle with honey, then bake it for 30 minutes or so :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: no cleaning, etc.?
<daubers> give it a scrub to clean off the muck
<daubers> You can skin them if you want, but like carrots, you can eat the skin :)
<MartijnVdS> ok :)
 * MartijnVdS will try this tomorrow
<daubers> Honey roasted parsnips nom nom nom
<daubers> I have a bag full of parsnips I intend to make into soup
<Laney> just got some o'those for 50p
<Laney> roasting away
<MartijnVdS> I bought the only parsnip in my supermarket.. apparently Dutchies don't eat parsnips anymore
<Laney> i may be having quite a few tastes of the stilton
<Laney> gotta make sure it's okay â¦
<dutchie> MartijnVdS: argh, curse you ;)
<dutchie> i got all excited there
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: muhahah :)
<mgdm> popey: oooh, red thai curry FTW
 * AlanBell had a rather inadequate microwaved thai noodle curry
<AlanBell> I added one of theopensourcerer's chillis to make it more interesting
 * AlanBell just had a nice email from the foreign and commonwealth office
<popey> you're allowed to leave?
<MartijnVdS> Your commonwealth-wide license to kill has been renewed?
<AlanBell> no, it was along the lines of "do you really want Ubuntu, or will RHEL be OK? I presume you want ssh access and a root account"
<AlanBell> yay for people who know what they are talking about
<Daviey> AlanBell: "clearly we'd prefer Ubuntu Server for enterprise puroposes, but we can probably settle for RHEL."
<Daviey> but make sure you use a spell checker.
 * AlanBell always uses an enterprising porpoise
<cih997> hi, im looking for somebody from London :) little question. thx
<AlanBell> what is the little question?
<cih997> im going to move to London soon. I got job offer from OpenBet. Im wondering know more about this company.
<Daviey> cih997: I'm willing to bet they are less Open than the name indicates.
<Laney> I think I know someone that works there
<Laney> he codes TCL all day long :-)
<cih997> yep TCL/tk
<cih997> i have never used this language
<cih997> ;)
<cih997> i code PHP all day long currently. However, Laney do you know something more about this corp? Or could you give me mail to this friend?
<Laney> he once rolled a massive snowball all the way from his house to work
<Azelphur> Laney: sounds like an awesome friend
<cih997> hope it wasnt at summer ;)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Kubuntu Outcomes from Precise UDS - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4505
<ujjain> http://data.whicdn.com/images/17728687/September-02-2011-22-16-10-tumblrlqr7wiehKT1qehl60o1400_large.gif - Can somebody explain this one?
<ujjain> wait, I think I get it anyway, it's just not my humour
<bigcalm> ujjain ...
<ujjain> bigcalm ...
<Azelphur> ujjain: ...
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-15
<ixxvil> hi
<ixxvil> there are no decent audio players that have upnp client capabilities
<ixxvil> in ubuntu
<ixxvil> or are there any
<AlanBell> morning all
<czajkowski> Aloha
<awilkins> Ugh, train travel.
<awilkins> At least they put on a 3 car train this morning. Most of us have to stand, but not on the crushed corpses of our fellow cattle^W passengers^W customers
<MartijnVdS> oh they do that in the uk too?
<popey> Morning
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<awilkins> *grunt*
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,.
<popey> It is.
<brobostigon> yes :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning mediamgl
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<brobostigon> sorry mediamgl
<MartijnVdS> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> Apologising for wishing people a good morning? How British ;)
<brobostigon> i didnt mean to highlight him, that being the issue.
<MartijnVdS> ah
<hoover> morning all!
<mattt> morning guys
<MooDoo> morn
<Myrtti> 3bleh
<MooDoo> that good eh Myrtti
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> quiet in here this morning
<JamesTait> Good morning, one and all! :)
<bigcalm> I'm busy writing about my pen & ink delivered this morning :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: literally?  pen and ink?
<daubers> bigcalm: Decent pen?
<bigcalm> My thoughts on new pen & ink: http://cuth.eu/fpink
<MooDoo> i've heard of this new technology :)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> MooDoo: literally pen and ink :) Though the thoughts are now pixels
<bigcalm> So glad that I moved the Ubuntu UK loco email list into its own folder on gmail. My phone doesn't bleat at me every 5 mins now
<MooDoo> hehe
<TheOpenSourcerer> nntp (gmane.org) FTW!
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I read the mailing list via gmane.
<bigcalm> Ah
<TheOpenSourcerer> Don't get any spam in my inbox(es).
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/spam/quality discussions
<gord> i have imapfilter idle on my email server filtering things away, works nicely
<BigRedS> Oh. That sounds like it's less irritating to configure than sieve
<BigRedS> and substantially more complete than my hacked-together pile of perl to not really do the same thing
<Myrtti> bigcalm: everyone doesnt have mailinglists filtered in gmail? whoa.
<bigcalm> Myrtti: Everybody does now
<BigRedS> I used to, until I got really annoyed with gmail not really doing imap
<MooDoo> gmail does do imap doesn't it
<popey> not properly
<dogmatic69> how can i set a higher ulimit for apache?
<MartijnVdS> apache has a ulimit?
<MartijnVdS> I'd check /etc/security/limits.conf
<MartijnVdS> or some module/config inside apache itself
<Myrtti> I just installed gm-notify and gnome-gmail on my oneiric tablet, tweaked the code a bit and am quite happy with the end result
<MooDoo> heard of rlimitmem for apache
<gord> i like gmails approach to email filtering, makes it real easy to make a rule
<bigcalm> gord: I'm with you on that
<dogmatic69> my server keeps throwing 502 errors and i think it has something to do with the limit on open files
<Myrtti> I just keep finding reasons to use gmail
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: do the logs not explain?
<dogmatic69> well there is a cherokee reverse proxy -> apache php server
<BigRedS> Myrtti: the only one I've found is that sieve is a PITA to get running, and _no_ mail client will just download mail without intervention
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: offlineimap
<dogmatic69> cherokee keeps taking the apache server off line, even though the traffic is low
<dogmatic69> it only happens with file uploads
<Myrtti> https://mail.google.com/mail/mu/mp/?mui=ca is my current â¥ reason
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, I keep pondering that
<BigRedS> but it seems wrong. Mail clients should be able to collect mail all by themselves
<BigRedS> Myrtti: what is it?
<MooDoo> offline email?
<Myrtti> yes, but also touch friendly
<BigRedS> oh, it offered to save something to disk. So it's offline webmail?
<Myrtti> yup
<BigRedS> That feels a lot like solving a problem that doesn't exist.
<BigRedS> unless it's a mail client that *does* download mail all by itself
<Myrtti> I care less about the offline
<Myrtti> and more about the touchfriendly
<bigcalm> AlanBell: Monday has been and gone, do we have further thoughts on the xmas meal?
<bigcalm> 10:40 and I only just notice that Skype isn't running :S
<bigcalm> Whoops
<MartijnVdS> "It uh.. must have crashed. Yes that's it. Crashed."
<MooDoo> where is davmor2 when you want to annoy him?
<bigcalm> MooDoo: I'll be doing plenty of that on Thursday
<MooDoo> bigcalm: you meeting him in person?
<bigcalm> MooDoo: workplace day in Wolverhampton
<MooDoo> bigcalm: punch him on the arm for me :D
<bigcalm> I think I might be the only non-Canonical person there
<Nafallo> bigcalm: nah. there are plenty we haven't hired yet.
<Myrtti> :-(
<MooDoo> canonical recruitment drive :)
<bigcalm> Nafallo: _there_ as in the workplace day on Thursday. Not _here_
<Nafallo> oh. right.
<bigcalm> :)
<gord> where am i going on thursday again? something about a lighthouse?
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> gord: http://light-house.co.uk/visit/getting-here/
<MooDoo> blimey last time i went to wolverhapton was for a lug radio live :)
<bigcalm> Same place
<bigcalm> (except for the last one)
<bigcalm> gord: have you been to the lighthouse before?
<gord> nope
<bigcalm> Ok, I got a little confused going there for the 1st time
<Dave2> I wonder if the atrium is still stupidly bright
<bigcalm> The image of the 4 large gents on the steps is confusing and isn't actually the entrance of the building
<bigcalm> I'm sure you'll figure it out though :D
<gord> i'm assuming there will be someone in a suit to greet me as "mr allott" before we head down the red carpet
<MooDoo> gord: mr who ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html ?
<gord> how is that a question :P
<MartijnVdS> gord: Mr Alot
<MooDoo> it takes alot to understand it ;)
<gord> someone made an alot of gords once, was terrifying
<bigcalm> gord: 1st saw your full name on minecraft. Thought it was read as 'Gord A lot'
<AlanBell> why does firefox want to open PDF files with gedit. Most annoying
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: because it's served as text/plain instead of application/pdf, probably
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Only lazy download system served all files as application/pdf. Caused fun times with non PDFs
<bigcalm> Just licked green ink off my finger - regretting it now
<bigcalm> Look before you lick
<AlanBell> fixed, it was set to use document viewer(default) and I now set it to use evince
<AlanBell> all my mime type settings look right to me in /usr/share/applications and in ~.local
<daubers> bigcalm: Flu jabs are evil
<daubers> My housemate had one and managed to hospitalise me :(
<JGJones> Rather damning of BBC and use of DRM (this affect you if you use MythTV) http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/nov/14/bbc-hd-drm
<AlanBell> I think I responded to that consultation
<andylockran> hey guys - anyone recommend how to monitor network activity (bandwidth) via port on ubuntu?
<directhex> ntop?
<Seeker`> daubers: how did that happen?
<bigcalm> popey: did you not get this error? http://paste.ubuntu.com/739165/
<popey> I do not.
<bigcalm> Poop
<bigcalm> Wonder what's missing from my system then
<popey> 11.10?
<daubers> Seeker`: I cought it from him and ended up coming down with major bad flu (i.e. breathing difficulties, hugely high pulse, fever) was rushed to hospital for CT scan as they thought I had meningitis, even had a lumbar puncture (ick ick ick ick ick ick ick), then spent nearly a week recovering from it :(
<Seeker`> daubers: not sure how you managed to catch flu from a flu jab
<daubers> Seeker`: I didn't have the jab dammit!
<Seeker`> I mean your housemates flu jab
<daubers> Seeker`: Doctor reckons I had some form of flu dormant, and the mild strain I cought from his flu jab woke it up and made it angry :(
<Seeker`> did your housemate get the flu after his jab?
<daubers> yup
<Seeker`> how long after?
<daubers> about a week if that
<popey> my wife has been ill after the flu jab
<Seeker`> it was my understanding that the flu jab doesn't actually cause the flu, and that if you get ill after the jab it is coincidence rather than causal
<daubers> all I know is that he had the flu jab, and that after that I got flu and had a big needle shoved in my spine
<diplo> Doesn't the flu jab give you some sort of flu or strain of something and there magic sorts it ?
<Seeker`> it gives you inactivated viruses
<diplo> aha
<diplo> :)
<Seeker`> so your body can react to the surface proteins so it is present in your immune memory, but the virus cannot infect any cells
<sheeps_> join #parenscript
<sheeps_> oops :)
<Seeker`> Despite popular belief, the flu vaccination can't give you flu as it doesn't contain the active virus needed to do this. It's true that some people experience symptoms of a heavy cold at the same time or just after they've had the flu jab. This is simply a coincidence and the symptoms are usually caused by one of the many common cold viruses that are around in the autumn and winter.
<Seeker`> Remember, it's still possible to suffer heavy colds after vaccination, as the flu jab only protects people from the flu virus, not other viruses.
 * popey wonders why Seeker` is trying to prove daubers wrong given daubers clearly visited a medical practitioner
<Seeker`> I don't doubt that daubers caught flu from his housemate
<popey> it's not coming across like that
<oimon> Seeker`: does that include the swine flu jab?
<popey> H1N1, yes
<Seeker`> I'm questioning whether his housemate got the flu from the flu jab
<oimon> i know many pregnant women who came down with a bad illness after the swine flu jab.
<daubers> He got a flu jab, I got A NEEDLE IN MY SPINE. All I know is I hurt more afterwards
<daubers> :p
<oimon> from a large ante-natal class, AFAIK all those jabbed for swine flu were ill. non-jabbed were not ill
<oimon> it's possible that they all went to the same nurse who had flu themself ..
<Seeker`> I've seen lots of people ask 'did I get flu from the jab' and I've never seen a response that it was possible to actually get flu from having the vaccination
<oimon> i caught swine flu from a number 25 bus
<Seeker`> daubers: but did he also spend time around other people, touch door handles etc. etc. around the same time? :P
<daubers> Seeker`: I didn't like to ask :p
<bigcalm> popey: yes, 11.10
<gord> i wonder if anyone has ever actually used the insert key for good, just seems to be the destructor of code for me
<popey> bigcalm: wfm â¨
 * daubers goes to gather some kit together for a datacenter excursion
<Seeker`> gord: I've mapped some useful things to it in games, if that counts
<bigcalm> :'(
<Azelphur> insert key, the evil destructor of code
<oimon> gord: i heard a comedian tlaking about that the other day
<oimon> insert is useful, overwrite is bad :)
<popey> bigcalm: what video card?
<popey> bigcalm: and are you sat at the machine or ssh'ed in?
<bigcalm> nvidia (2 of)
<bigcalm> Sat at it
<gord> bigcalm, do you have gnome-settings-daemon running?
<gord> also look at d-feet, see if org.gnome.SettingsDaemon exists on the session bus
<popey> there's some right odd stuff on spotify
<popey> http://open.spotify.com/track/2z48HBCK72HxRMwMdEixxq
<bigcalm> gord: that daemon is running
<bigcalm> What is d-feet?
<gord> its an application for looking at dbus
<bigcalm> While a track was playing, I re-ran the notifer. It give a slightly different message and Spotify put in the yellow notification bar 'Link not found.'
<popey> stop spotify
<popey> close it, then start the script
<popey> the script starts spotify
<bigcalm> Oh
<popey> i ran it with nohup ./spotify-notify.py &
<popey> then killed the terminal
<bigcalm> Well it did start Spotify
<bigcalm> Gave the same error messages
<bigcalm> No notifications
<popey> well, the error message isnt good
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/739187/
<bigcalm> Irritating
<popey> well, you're using twinview
<popey> nvidia doesnt support xrandr
<popey> dunno why it wants xrandr though
<Myrtti> so that is for the linux client, right?
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> popey: other python gnome-notify scripts work
<gord> bigcalm, pastebin the script
<Myrtti> oh good grief almost jumped to the ceiling
<Myrtti> the dog made a snorting sound
<bigcalm> gord: http://code.google.com/p/spotify-notify/
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKm5xQyD2vE ?
<Twinkletoes> I have a question related to ubuntu only by virtue of the fact, it's running bind.  My domain name registrar points to nameservers who will resolve my domain (*my* nameservers).  However, it lists them by fqdn, rather than IP.  If the NS records for mydomain.com, are ns.mydomain.com, then how does it initially resolve "ns.mydomain.com" in order to do a lookup?  Shouldn't the IP address be...
<Twinkletoes> ...reference anywhere?
<gord> bigcalm, yeah your gonna want to get d-feet and check that org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.MediaKeys actually exists
<gord> bigcalm, alternatively, comment out a bunch of stuff in the MediaKeyHandler class
<bigcalm> I thought Ubuntu was meant to just work! ;)
 * popey tries it on a clean nvidia install
 * popey installs spotify first :D
 * hamitron didn't know there was such a thing as "clean" when it came to nvidia
<popey> hamitron: http://meow.popey.com/
<hamitron> sec
<hamitron> :)
<popey> oh, actually, my laptop has nouveau, not nvidia blob
<hamitron> ;/
<bigcalm> gord: ok, I have d-feet running. How might it help me? :)
<gord> you look at dbus, clicky clicky, just make sure your looking at the session bus
<gord> you'll figure it out ;)
<bigcalm> Looking at the Session bus, org.gnome.SettingsDaemon is in the Bus Names
<bigcalm> But no MediaKeys
<gord> theres your problem
<gord> either you can figure out why, or fix the script to not look for it ;)
<bigcalm> 1) not my script, 2) know nothing about python
 * bigcalm gets on with 'work'
<Azelphur> haha, gamers trying to build computers are funny
<Azelphur> PCIe power in the P4 :D
<Laney> ooh
<Laney> creeping up on bug #900000
<lubotu3`> Error: Launchpad bug 900000 could not be found
<popey> quick! file bugs!
<Azelphur> it's over nine thousaaaaaand.
 * Azelphur runs
<Laney> spotify:track:50a2H4c2L4kwJVe6ShwHS7
<bigcalm> Laney: is that the new rick roll for 2011?
<Laney> thought you might appreciate it :3
<Laney> might make it my new thing
<Laney> Classic Pop Track Of The Day
<bigcalm> Classic something
<popey> AlanBell: http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/ seems inaccurate?
<popey> for the london meeting
<diplo> Any one here run Android ? Question about contacts :)
<gord> just ask the question :P
<bigcalm> !ask
<lubotu3`> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<diplo> Well being ubuntu channel thought i'd be good :)
<diplo> Basically, when my friend used to sync his contacts i got him to test that it only synced "My Contacts"
<diplo> Just got my android phone now and it grabs all the contacts and not just my contacts
<diplo> His used to use My contacts for telephone numbers but had groups there if he had an incoming call from someone from the groups
<diplo> Downside is I have all my G+ contacts etc showing in phone list
<diplo> All pages I've found so far are from 09/10 and don't seem to have the same optionsnow
<gord> no idea, don't have my G+ contacts in my contacts list
<diplo> Sure you used to be able to select which groups displayed and which didnt, just have option Google/Phone/Sim now
<diplo> If I could root it I would but seems unsupported atm :/
<BigRedS> 'My Contacts' is a Samsung invention AFAICT
<BigRedS> They also have My Calendar and a My Something Else
<BigRedS> which is infuriating
<diplo> It's in Google Contacts on there web page
<diplo> So My Contacts is stuff that should be synced, groups is everything else for me
<diplo> Used to work :)
<smittix> Afternoon all
<MooDoo> hi smittix
<diplo> Use an app is the answer now :)
<diplo> 50 contacts now instead of 500+
<Azelphur> Don't suppose anyone has any interesting ideas on how to have your cake and eat it, fluid width website with a header image?
<andylockran> Azelphur: ?
<andylockran> what do you mean?
<Azelphur> It's a CSS/HTML question, wondering if there's a way to have a fluid width website with a image header that doesn't look ugly
<andylockran> Azelphur: depends how you design the body of the page
<andylockran> Azelphur: if it looks smart with the image centred then that's easy
<Azelphur> yea, perhaps I should try doing that
<Azelphur> http://fasttrack-khadgar.com/ is the site in question :p
<andylockran> if not, then you need to limit the width to the width of the image - then make sure that multi-widths render nicely too
<andylockran> Azelphur: I'd set the min-width to 1024 for the content sectionthere, and have the image centred above it
<andylockran> or scale the image with the width
<Azelphur> sounds cool :)
<Azelphur> I shall mess around on a test website with that :d
<oimon> guys, am i supposed to change my steam password? i haven't received an email about it
<andylockran> yeah, I'm an idiot. have an image set to width=100%.. and have multi-res images
<Azelphur> oimon: gabe says yes
<Azelphur> andylockran: wait what multi res images?
<Azelphur> I knew about width=100%, but won't that introduce pixelization?
<oimon> Azelphur: he really should email us though, right?
<Azelphur> oimon: they havn't confirmed there was a breach yet
<andylockran> Azelphur: not if you have a high enough res image.
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<oimon> Azelphur: ah, i just reliased it's a forum account, not a steam account
<oimon> "Steam users will be required to change their forum passwords when the forums are opened back up. While the company claims that no Steam accounts have been compromised, if your forum password was the same as your account password, a change would likely be a good idea."
<Azelphur> ah there we go, so just the forum was compromised :)
<oimon> however that is inconsistent with this quote : "Gabe NewellÂ today confirms this fact and reveals that the intruders also gained access to a Steam database that contained a ton of personal information, such as usernames, encrypted passwords, email addresses, and encrypted credit card information. Newell adds that there is currently no evidence that any of that information was actually taken by the intruders or that credit card numbers or passwords
<MartijnVdS> oimon: \o/ lies
<Azelphur> oimon: indeed, I was thinking that
<MartijnVdS> good thing I didn't store my cc info with them
<Azelphur> it's their fault for using old unpatched vb
<Azelphur> xD
<oimon> nor me..i had to add my CC to itunes to spend Â£15.10 with a Â£15 voucher the other day...removed it now but :(
<oimon> took me 2 hrs to download/install/work out how to use itunes/convert to mp3
<oimon> next time i'm selling the voucher on ebay instead
<Azelphur> this is one of the things I like about paypal, it largely protects you against things like this
<oimon> except can't use paypal with android market or itunes
<oimon> sad face :(
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> google checkout provides the same layer of security
<funkyHat> This is why I use a credit card for purchases rather than a debit card. If my details get stolen it's the card company's problem not mine
<Azelphur> funkyHat: yea, that's the one thing that tempts me to get a CC, I have debit atm
<funkyHat> Assuming I notice soon enough
<funkyHat> Azelphur: as long as you're capable of managing your spending there's no reason not to
<funkyHat> I only say that because I have friends who can't help themselves and just max out their credit cards all the time
<Azelphur> well yea I absolutely am, I'm the type of person that doesn't do loans and doesn't spend what I don't have
<Azelphur> that's one thing I like about my debit - no overdraft
<oimon> i have an automatic DD that pays off my CC each month
<oimon> i find it the best way to find out what i've spent each month..put everything on joint CC with missus
<buzz_> i cancelled my cards as a protest again the crappy rates they are charging currently
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> woo, my new network of sites is starting to take shape \o/
<buzz_> now if everyone else did the same, they might have to come back with some better offers
<buzz_> :)
<Azelphur> just got my cool global forums idea to work :D
<Azelphur> different sites for each game my gaming community does, with site specific forums, as well as some global forums that are shared between all sites
<gord> like steam forums then?
<Azelphur> I guess
<gord> cool
<gord> now try not to get hacked ;)
<Azelphur> gord haha, except I'm not using crapbulletin and I keep myself up to date
<hellurr> hello
<AlanBell> hellurr hello
<AlanBell> or possibly the other way round
<Azelphur> sounds silly which ever way you say it :p
<andylockran> :D
<andylockran> having a very productive day - love it!
<AlanBell> popey: http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour updated
<popey> thanks
<bigcalm> AlanBell: xmas mean update?
<AlanBell> tonytiger: the happy hour tour comes to Southampton in January, if you could suggest a pub that would be great
<AlanBell> bigcalm: working on it . . .
<bigcalm> I can see it being cancelled at this rate of uptake :(
<popey> I'd like to go to the xmas thing
<AlanBell> well it will be publicised in canonical when it has a date
<bigcalm> popey: put your name on the list then :)
<AlanBell> I need to call the place and find a date with some space and then get more notifications out to fill it up
<bigcalm> How many can it accommodate?
<AlanBell> we have 7 so far, which is viable
<AlanBell> bigcalm: 60, but some dates are full up
<popey> done
<AlanBell> I don't want to suggest a date where they have 58 people already booked . . .
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> Good show popey :)
<AlanBell> so I wanted to get some idea of numbers, call the place and firm up a date
<bigcalm> Catch 22
<AlanBell> which I will now do :)
<bigcalm> People don't want to put their name down on even the maybe without a solid date :(
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> that is OK, we have a viable level of interest now
 * bigcalm makes tea
<AlanBell> think I have made a reservation for the 9th
<AlanBell> I need to give them my credit card details to confirm the booking, and it will cost me if people don't turn up
<bigcalm> Oh my
<bigcalm> I will be there on the 9th
<bigcalm> How much will it cost if people don't turn up?
<AlanBell> cancellation less than 48 hours is Â£15
<AlanBell> if we all fail to arrive it is Â£25 per person I think
<bigcalm> What if some of us do?
<bigcalm> Ah, I see
<tonytiger> bigcalm: it's not that big a place, a group of 7 or 8 would be fine
<bigcalm> Cool
<AlanBell> ah, no if anyone fails to arrive it is Â£25, Â£15 if notified in advance, we can modify the numbers up to 48 hours in advance
<bigcalm> Good, that's better flexibility
<bigcalm> Now I need to find out if Hayley wants to come or not
<bigcalm> She still has doubts
<AlanBell> or it might be Â£35 for noshow, it is different on the email confirmation to the booking form!
<bigcalm> Nice
<tonytiger> AlanBell: Like I say, I don't drink and rarely go out in Southampton so I could do little more than pick a pub at random
<AlanBell> thats fine tonytiger
<AlanBell> anyone got a better than random suggestion for a southampton pub?
<AlanBell> random is OK
<Daviey> AlanBell: for Ubuntu Hour?
<tonytiger> Ah Daviey
<AlanBell> Daviey: yes indeed
<tonytiger> Much more likely to be able to suggest a disreputable hole.
<bigcalm> :D
<Daviey> hah
<tonytiger> Actually, the pub where the Southampton Barcamp was held was OK
<tonytiger> the "shooting star"
<tonytiger> http://southampton-pubs.co.uk/shootingstar/index.htm
<bigcalm> Hayley's xmas meal is on the 8th Dec. UU xmas meal on the 9th. Expensive/busy week/end
<AlanBell> christel: can you make the 9th? http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
<bigcalm> AlanBell: when will you need monies from us?
<AlanBell> popey: can you move yourself from Maybe attending to attending when you confirm with she who must be obeyed
<AlanBell> bigcalm: never, hopefully :)
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> AlanBell: eh?
<bigcalm> Free food?
<AlanBell> I don't need to pay in advance, just need to underwrite the booking with my card
<AlanBell> you pay on the day to the place
<bigcalm> Ah
<christel> AlanBell: yessir!
<christel> i wouldnt miss it for a thing
<AlanBell> excellent christel :)
<AlanBell> you can work on getting czajkowski to come along :)
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> Heh
<christel> :D
<Laney> hmm, could be fun
<christel> i will do!
<bigcalm> I guess I should actually read the website now :)
<Laney> don't know if any of you went to the blindness thingy in budapest?
<Laney> a pitch black exhibition
<AlanBell> Laney: I arranged it, but didn't go!
<Laney> it was disconcerting!
<AlanBell> I have been to one in vienna
<Laney> i expect fork face stabbing
<bigcalm> Heh
<awilkins> Anyone use Scrum?
<bigcalm> I used to use scumm
 * bigcalm starts chanting 'grog grog grog'
<awilkins> Had two days of great fun trying to get people scrumming now I'm the Scrum Master. SCUMM master would be more fun.
<christel> AlanBell: i may have convinced ikonia to come with us too!
<christel> i know he's not quite czajkowski...
<christel> BUT
<AlanBell> its all the same in the dark
<christel> indeed!
<christel> :D
<popey> AlanBell: sure if you can give me a date, we're more likely to be able to make a weekend than a weekday
<bigcalm> 9th Dec
<bigcalm> AlanBell: 7pm?
<AlanBell> yeah, place opens at 18:30
<AlanBell> just filling out the credit card form
 * Daviey *might* be able to make it.  No promise.
<Daviey> Friday evening?
<bigcalm> Yes
<popey> ok, wifey finishes work at 16:30 on fridays
<popey> might be able to make it if we can get baby sitters that night
<bigcalm> popey: just put them in front of Minecraft. They'll look after themselves :)
<popey> hah
<Daviey> bigcalm: You should offer parenting lessons. :)
<popey> damnit, wifey has something in her calendar on 9th
<popey> hmm
<awilkins> My 7 year old likes building rhinestone castles in Minecraft
<bigcalm> popey: can you alter her calender, or do you have read-only access?
<popey> heh
<popey> dude
<popey> seriously!?
<christel> Daviey: DO IT
 * bigcalm bwuhahahas
<popey> what kinda of geek do you take me for, of course I can
<hamitron> but are you a geek with guts?
<hamitron> ;/
<popey> did i tell you about the time sophie asked why I had her password and she didnt have mine?
<popey> âº
<popey> that was an interesting moment
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> why do you have her password? ;)
<popey> "Because I sometimes have to fix your logon, you rarely fix mine"
<popey> she just about accepted that
<hamitron> haha
<popey> also
<bigcalm> Smooth
<Azelphur> popey: haha, teaching them well to be skeptical about password security :P
<popey> wifey found a notebook once with "wii" and the 4 digit pin written in it
<popey> sophie had seen mummy type it in, and remembered it long enough to note it down
<hamitron> I love other users thinking their files can't be read by me, just because they have a secret password
<MartijnVdS> popey: one day she'll figure out how to change it and won't tell you what she changed it to though :)
<popey> when I got in from work clare told me about this
<celesteh> hello, how do i find out my ip address from the command line?
<popey> celesteh: ifconfig
<Azelphur> celesteh: local or external?
<MartijnVdS> or "ip addr"
<AlanBell> credit card form filled in, emailed off
<popey> or ip addr
<popey> I asked sophie about it in a calm and friendly way and she burst into tears
<popey> she thought she was in trouble
<christel> AlanBell: hooray :D
<popey> I explained that I wasnt cross, and that I actually thought it was quite funny
<popey> she was okay about it
<christel> blless
<hamitron> popey, "mummy" should shield her security answers at all time ;)
<hamitron> times*
<shauno> does it never worry you that you're raising your kids to be smarter than you are?  they'll start winning soon ;)
<hamitron> yeh :D
<bigcalm> shauno: it happens with every generation
<bigcalm> I'm still giving tech support to my parents
<shauno> a little ceasar cipher & that would have gone unnoticed as the pin.  it's not far off .. buahaha
<popey> Sophie writes codes too
<MartijnVdS> shauno: And once she discovers IRC and all the helpful people on it... :)
<popey> she writes a cipher on a page and gives you a message and you have to decode it
<MartijnVdS> GPGed diary entries
<popey> she loves that stuff
<bigcalm> I think popey will keep his children away from IRC until they are both in their 20s
<popey> I'd love for her to be a crypto expert or something
<popey> she's been on irc
<MartijnVdS> popey: have you taken her to Bletchley Park?
<popey> she stands and reads what you lot type over my shoulder sometimes
<popey> which is why i am a strong advocate of family friendly âº
<popey> not yet MartijnVdS
<bigcalm> :)
<AlanBell> my kids have been on IRC
<AlanBell> they type great stuff like "daddy is a poo head"
<popey> when sam plays minecraft in multiplayer mode he walks up to me and calls me "mate"
<popey> I can hear him verbally say "mate" in the other room
<hamitron> :D
<popey> very odd
<popey> today I discovered the program magicicada
<popey> !info magicicada
<popey> its great
<lubotu3`> magicicada (source: magicicada): A GTK+ frontend for Ubuntu One file sync.. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.3.0-0ubuntu1 (natty), package size 106 kB, installed size 648 kB
<gord> it is great
<gord> i've been harping on about it for about 12 months, no one listens to me though ;)
 * popey hugs gord 
 * mattt just witnessed a manhug
<AlanBell> oh, when did we say the next meeting was?
<AlanBell> was it on the 8th december at 12 lunchtime or something?
<MartijnVdS> remember, remember the 8th of december?
<bigcalm> One mo
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 8th December 12:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting |
<bigcalm> <AlanBell> that would be Thursday 1st dec at 12 lunchtime
<AlanBell> 1st, right
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 1st December 12:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting |
<bigcalm> Hooray for x-chat keeping channels open I've actually left
<bigcalm> That's proxy fun for you
<brobostigon> also needs chaning in #ubuntu-uk-meeting.
<brobostigon> changing*
<popey> haha, nice hostname
<bigcalm> ?
<popey> ~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu
<MartijnVdS> :( new phone delayed
<bigcalm> Hehe
<popey> (not that I agree #politics, just thought it was funny)
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: :(
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: which device are you waiting for?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: galaxy nexus
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> What made you choose that over the S2?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: No vendor addon crapware
<MartijnVdS> Just Android, as Google intended it.
<mgdm> The S2's replacement launcher thing was terrible, last I tried it
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: CM 7.1 is out for the S2
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I don't like CM
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> Lies!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Running custom firmware is a hassle. I hate hassles.
<DJones> I like the sound of the droid razr
<bigcalm> DJones: you like sharp sounds?
<MartijnVdS> *ching!*
<DJones> I'm tone deaf, sharp or not makes no difference :)
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer has still not decided on the Nexus or the Note: http://www.o2.co.uk/comingsoon/
<MartijnVdS> DJones: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AudibleSharpness
<bigcalm> The note?
<DJones> At least thats what I get told when I sing, closely followed by "be quiet"
<TheOpenSourcerer> The "mother" of all smart phones bigcalm
<TheOpenSourcerer> Where have you been if you have not heard of it?
<gord> i heard that once you go to the giant note, you can't go back
<gord> you need the space and resolution
 * MartijnVdS apologises to all the people who have clicked that link,and are now stuck on a wikiwalk
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a 5" Dell Streak
<TheOpenSourcerer> Note is 5.3" Nexus is ~4.7"... Decisions decisions...
<DJones> http://www.techradar.com/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/samsung-galaxy-note-1039199/review
<LSymonds> "Microsoft says its new OS will require one restart on the second Tuesday of every month -- a day also known as Patch Tuesday."
<bigcalm> I have an N1 in my pocket, not sure I want to go much bigger than the S2/GN
<LSymonds> Silly Microsoft, this is going to be annoying for my clients.
<LSymonds> Wrong channel, my bad.
<MartijnVdS> LSymonds: nah they can just stop updating...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Finally. Tea time. ttfn
<LSymonds> I think it'd be easier for them to choose when they want to update though.
 * bigcalm ponders what to have for tea
<bigcalm> Home alone tonight
<DJones> Just watching the news, they showed a clip of Brian Regan from brookside using an early mobile phone/brick which looked really funny now
<bigcalm> So it might be chinese or KFC
 * AlanBell is starving
 * DJones finishes off his pasta & italian chicken
 * brobostigon is also starving, and his dad is cooking chicken, with linguine.
<bigcalm> brobostigon: miss-read that as lingerie
 * bigcalm is confused
<brobostigon> bigcalm: it is a type of long flat pasta.
<DJones> bigcalm: I'd be more worried if you'd misread that as "wearing lingerie"
<bigcalm> brobostigon: I know, I have a packet of dried garlic ribbons in the cupboard :)
<brobostigon> bigcalm: ok, :)
<andylockran> guys - if I have a machine and I want to vet all web traffic on that machine - is the best bet to install a proxy server and get all requests to pass through the proxy?  If so, is squid as a transparent proxy the best route to go down?
<andylockran> all I want to do is document the sites that this machine is making requests to.
<gordonjcp> any sort of transparent proxy, really
<gordonjcp> andylockran: or run driftnet and configure the switch to pop you onto a SPAN port
<daubers> evening
<AlanBell> evening daubers
<AlanBell> meal confirmed :)
<AlanBell> you need to update your status here one way or another http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
<daubers> AlanBell: Will do
<bigcalm> AlanBell: just updated my xmas meal registration
<LSymonds> What poultry are you having bigcalm? If you are having any at all.
<bigcalm> I am definitely going, just need to get more people interested.
<bigcalm> LSymonds: eh?
<popey> we'll mention it on the podcast next week
<LSymonds> xmas meal
<LSymonds> Presumably Christmas meal? :L
<popey> I'm adding it to the schedule
<LSymonds> I've just made myself look like a right idiot.
<bigcalm> LSymonds: I'm talking about the Ubuntu UK loco xmas meal: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
<LSymonds> Where is your podcast located guys? :P
<bigcalm> LSymonds: I expect we'll have bacon sandwiches on the 25th Dec though
<bigcalm> LSymonds: podcast.ubuntu-uk.org
<LSymonds> I presume you're a developer then?
<LSymonds> Oh.
<bigcalm> Indeed I am, what gave you that idea though?
<LSymonds> Bacon Sandwiches for Christmas Day
<LSymonds> Only in a developer's world.
<bigcalm> Newp, my family would :)
<LSymonds> Oh.
<LSymonds> I had a McDonalds one year.
<LSymonds> Good times.
<bigcalm> We'll possibly have a bigger meal on the 26th when more people visit
<LSymonds> I'd love to come
<LSymonds> Bit too young at the minute though
<LSymonds> Been using Ubuntu for 3 years now, moved onto Xubuntu for 11.10 but will move back for the 12.04 LTS.
<bigcalm> Erm, our family christmas meals aren't open to the public :)
<LSymonds> I didn't mean that HAHAH
<LSymonds> I meant the Christmas meal.
<LSymonds> Bacon Sandwiches on Christmas day sounds amazing.
<LSymonds> Fry up is for breakfast though, can't beat that ;)
<LSymonds> How long have you been working at Canonical / Ubuntu for then bigcalm?
<bigcalm> Never
<LSymonds> Ah.
<LSymonds> Made an idiot of myself once more.
<bigcalm> I'm a web developer
<LSymonds> Me too.
<LSymonds> Need to get some more work though, there's not much work at the minute.
<LSymonds> Especially if you don't have your name out there.
<Azelphur> I'm having lots of fun with drupal atm :D
<LSymonds> I'm loving Laravel.
<bigcalm> Azelphur: you are nuts :P
<LSymonds> http://http://laravel.com/
<popey> mmmm bacon
<LSymonds> http://laravel.com/
<Azelphur> bigcalm: why am I nuts? :O
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
<LSymonds> Great use of a subdomain popey, great use.
<bigcalm> Drupal has been the bane of my existence on several occasions
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> bigcalm: :o what's wrong with it? I'm actually having a great time with Drupal 7
<LSymonds> Why is my nick this? Need to change it. BRB 2 seconds.
<Azelphur> I keep on bumping into little things and I'm like "Aww, can't do that" *think a bit* "Oh wait yea I can"
<bigcalm> Azelphur: the way in which client want it to work and the fact that developing for one version means a complete rewrite when the next major version comes out
<jutnux> Do you/have you used CI bigcalm?
<bigcalm> Code Igniter?
<jutnux> Oui.
<bigcalm> Once or twice, not my choice of MVC
<jutnux> Which framework do you prefer?
<bigcalm> Depends upon the size of the project
<bigcalm> But Symfony or CakePHP
<bigcalm> Or writing my own from scratch
<Azelphur> bigcalm: *shrug* I've been making awesome progress with it, I'm setting up a network of sites and I have cross-site forums and shared user dbs and I made an issue tracker with no code :D
<bigcalm> Azelphur: then I am glad that it has progressed so well :)
<Azelphur> and I wrote a module for it so it'll sync your avatar and name from another service
<Azelphur> yea, I'm really enjoying it :D
<jutnux> bigcalm, Ah. I've been using Laravel a lot lately, it is pretty amazing. Fuel is good too, combining all features from the well known frameworks.
<jutnux> Anyways, better go get some sleep, up at 5 tomorrow :'(
<bigcalm> Enjoy!
<jutnux> Thanks bigcalm, have a nice night!
<jutnux> And yuo Azelphur, popey!
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> dam I need to stop switching between keyboard and mouse, my shoulder joint is starting to ache XD
<marsilainen> hi
<marsilainen> should it be possible to get my iphone (iOS 5.0.1) to sync my music from banshee?
<marsilainen> currently, when I plug in my iphone I get "Unhandled Lockdown Error"
<marsilainen> h8 apple :(
<Azelphur> solution: don't buy iphones :D
 * Azelphur runs
<marsilainen> I only have this damned phone because it's what my work provides me with :(
<Azelphur> ah :(
<marsilainen> believe me, it's not through choice
<Azelphur> popey: is an apple person
<Azelphur> maybe he will know
<marsilainen> I just want my music on my phone :/
<Azelphur> indeed, android just exposes itself as a mass storage device and will work anywhere
<marsilainen> I like the fact that I can easily buy music from Amazon through banshee
<marsilainen> I just want to sync it to my phone now
 * popey sighs
<marsilainen> popey: at me?
<popey> bug 877440
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 877440 in upower (Ubuntu) "[iOS 5] Unhandled Lockdown error (-15)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877440
<popey> that error?
<marsilainen> yes
<marsilainen> I've been reading that bug
<popey> see most recent comment
<popey> from me
<marsilainen> tried that
<marsilainen> no joy
<popey> unplugged phone first?
<marsilainen> I think so
<marsilainen> I'll try again
<marsilainen> so unplug phone; delete contents of that dir; then reconnect phone ?
<popey> yes
<marsilainen> ok, did that, when I reconnect phone I get nothing at all...
<popey> marsilainen: what release of ubuntu?
<marsilainen> no error popup
<marsilainen> nor any device popup
<marsilainen> oneiric
<popey> is the phone unlocked?
<marsilainen> what does "unlocked" mean?
<popey> lock screen
<popey> or home screen
<marsilainen> no
<popey> ok
<marsilainen> is that important?
<popey> yes
<popey> locked phones are hard to talk to
<marsilainen> should I have it unlocked?
<marsilainen> oh
 * popey gets his phone to test
<marsilainen> aha
<marsilainen> that looks better
<popey> what happened?
<marsilainen> now it appears in banshee
<popey> popups?
<popey> wooooot
<marsilainen> yes
<popey> _please_ leave a comment on that bug report
<marsilainen> but now to try syncing...
<popey> you're not the first to experience this
<marsilainen> should I expect it to work?
<popey> no doubt not the last
<popey> yes
<marsilainen> ok, I shall do
<popey> thank you
<marsilainen> ok, will try that first, then comment
<popey> wise
<marsilainen> well it says it's syncing... will believe it only when I can play music on the iphone...
<popey> heh
<marsilainen> once it syncs, I should be able to play the music using the standard iphone music app?
<marsilainen> or do I need a different player?
<popey> dunno i havent done that
<popey> i dont have music on mine
<popey> marsilainen: is yours a laptop or desktop computer?
<marsilainen> desktop
<popey> do you have a battery icon in your notification area when you have the phone plugged in?
<marsilainen> no
<popey> my laptop has the battery icon i guess because it knows this is a laptop
<popey> anyway, the fun thing is clicking the battery icon shows not only the charge level of the battery in the laptop, but also the charge level of the phone âº
<marsilainen> aha
<marsilainen> nice
<marsilainen> well it claims to have sync'd my music, but nothing seems to show up in the music app on the iphone :/
<popey> i have no idea about that, sorry
<marsilainen> :/
<marsilainen> thanks anyway
<popey> np
<marsilainen> thanks uncle Steve RIP
<popey> hah
<marsilainen> I don't know why anyone would buy this apple hardware out of choice
<AlanBell> "ooh shiny"
<marsilainen> I'm sure that it's only the proprietary nature that makes all this syncing so painful
<marsilainen> clearly...
<marsilainen> all I want is to sync my music...
<marsilainen> I don't ask for much...
<marsilainen> I know how to sync my music to my iphone!
<marsilainen> I can go out and buy a macbook!
<marsilainen> and then buy all my music through itunes!
<marsilainen> uncle steve will be so proud of me!!!
<popey> meh
<popey> i love my iphone
<marsilainen> you don't mind the fact that it's all tie-in?
<czajkowski> marsilainen: people use lots of different technologies every day, nice to see what's out there, and without knowing one cannot improve
<popey> no
<popey> android ties you in to google
<popey> blackberry ties you into rim
<ali1234> that's not really true
<zleap> is that a good thing,  seemless integration
<ali1234> but you know that
<zleap> where it matters,  and good if yu can do other stuff too
<marsilainen> czajkowski: that's true of course, but here I can clearly see that the fact that iphone has proprietary APIs etc means it makes it difficult for me to sync my music
<popey> its as true as the BS people say about apple
<marsilainen> I can't do what I want to do
<marsilainen> I can't take my music with me
<marsilainen> this is therefore painful
<popey> well.
<popey> the functionality is there
<marsilainen> ?
<popey> you're probably hitting a bug
<ali1234> no it isn't
<marsilainen> do you know anyone who is doing this succesfully?
<popey> i have done it in the past successfully
<marsilainen> because my googling isn't showing up much
<popey> i dunno about now
<ali1234> have google blocked competing apps?
<popey> is it broken on ios5 or something then?
<marsilainen> all I want to do is to use the functionality of ubuntu (banshee) with the functionality of my iphone
<ali1234> have google prevented jailbreaking?
<popey> OEMs have
<marsilainen> I had the same behaviour on iOS4
<popey> ASUS changed keys to make rooting their devices hard
<ali1234> plenty of OEMs don't
<marsilainen> I haven't jailbroken my phone
<popey> as did Motorola
<marsilainen> not sure if it would make a difference?
<popey> no idea
<popey> not tried it recently
<ali1234> i would point out that it is highly likely OEMs will do the same thing with ubuntu when UEFI becomes common
<Azelphur> popey: you talking about locked boot loaders?
<marsilainen> anyway simple facts: I can't sync from banshee -> iOS; I believe if they used open APIs it would likely have more chance of working
<marsilainen> therefore: apple = bad
<popey> he
<popey> bummer â¹
<popey> Azelphur: ya
<Azelphur> you know motorola got so much negative press from locked boot loader that they stopped doing it now
<ali1234> why don't you just mount the phone as mass storage and copy the file on?
<ali1234> oh wait, it's because apple sucks
<popey> Azelphur: and ASUS havent
<Azelphur> and HTC made a single facebook post about possibly doing it and got flamed into the floor xD
<Azelphur> and backpeddled within a couple hours
<Azelphur> that was pretty hilarious, there was a twitter trend and everything.
<Myrtti> Swype beta has Finnish language support now, ihihih
<Myrtti> lovely
<popey> Azelphur: I specifically mentioned ASUS
<Azelphur> dunno about asus phones, never even knew one existed
<marsilainen> I wouldn't mind so much, but Shuttleworth has even made my Ubuntu desktop look like a Mac anyways - he could at least sort out the syncing with them :)
<popey> Azelphur: tablet, not phone
<Azelphur> ah, or tablet
<popey> haha marsilainen
<Azelphur> popey: tbh the trend I see now days is people just go to the cyanogen supported devices list and buy phones
<Azelphur> at least, the tech savvy people do.
<popey> the ASUS Transformer (and the upcoming Transformer Prime) are kinda nice devices
<ali1234> nobody cares about tablets, seriously
<marsilainen> tell uncle shuttleworth to get out the weegie board out and get something sorted with uncle steve
<ali1234> they are a fad
<Azelphur> ali1234: inb4 tablets become number 1 device lol
<ali1234> kind of like ipods really
<marsilainen> ali1234: try telling our clients that :/
<popey> heh
<Azelphur> but yea, I for one will continue to buy from the non locked boot loader companies :D
<ali1234> basically only children use standalone mp3 players now, because they are dirt cheap
<ali1234> everyone else has mp3 playing phone
<Azelphur> My next phone is probably going to be a samsung, they hired cyanogen and they are working on a google phone
<marsilainen> yeah, just a pity can't sync to the iphone
<Azelphur> google/cyanogen = best software + samsung = best hardware = greatest phone ever?
<marsilainen> I have to listen to the ringtones on the way to work instead
<popey> haha
<Azelphur> haha ringtones :D
<marsilainen> :/
<czajkowski> popey: is todays word of the day wut :)
<Azelphur> marsilainen: fyi you can get decent android phones for ~Â£100 brand new now pay as you go :D
<Azelphur> popey: btw did you hear the siri protocol got cracked?
<Azelphur> you can just send an ogg off to apples webserver and get a reply.
<Azelphur> (not exactly complicated, but it's all documented now no doubt cross platform apps will start emerging)
<ali1234> they've been that cheap for ages
<marsilainen> Azelphur: yeah, the cost of the phone isn't the issue - just the fact I'd have to carry around 2 phones :(
<ali1234> i think there was a Â£70 a few months ago
<Azelphur> marsilainen: what actually ties you to the iphone? :)
<marsilainen> Azelphur: work does...
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, but they was usually rather slow
<marsilainen> Azelphur: they pay the bill on the iphone...
<Azelphur> marsilainen: so take the sim out put it in android phone profit?
<ali1234> iphones has microsim
<marsilainen> Azelphur: they wouldn't allow that
<Azelphur> aww :(
<marsilainen> just not an option I'm afraid
 * AlanBell loves the raspberry pi team
<AlanBell> "click to embiggen"
<AlanBell> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/344
<AlanBell> a perfectly cromulent word
<Azelphur> :D
<aquarius> does anyone know if Mario Kemper, lead guy on Shutter, hangs out on irc?
<AlanBell> there is no channel matching *shutter*
<marsilainen> is there a way to increase the number of virtual desktops?
<marsilainen> this used to be easy in <= maverick
<marsilainen> I can't see a way of doing it in oneiric?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-16
<czajkowski> aquarius: got an irc nick for him ?
<aquarius> czajkowski, no, that's one of the reasons I was asking :)
<AlanBell> aquarius: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
<czajkowski> aquarius: https://launchpad.net/~mario-kemper
<czajkowski> might be helpful
 * AlanBell wasn't the least bit helpful
<aquarius> AlanBell, am out of the country :(
<AlanBell> oh noes
<aquarius> czajkowski, yeah, it doesn't list irc :(
<aquarius> Have submitted a launchpad answers question. Bah.
<czajkowski> try romario
<czajkowski> aquarius: http://shutter-project.org/contact/  or https://plus.google.com/103066453717145238737/posts
<aquarius> I did; no such person, but I don't know whether that's because he's not onlnie right now or whether he just doesn't hang out :)
<aquarius> czajkowski, yeah -- that's why i did the LP answers thing, since that's where they ask for questions to be sent. I'm just impatient :)
<czajkowski> you
<czajkowski> never
<czajkowski> surely not
<czajkowski> :p
<aquarius> :)
<czajkowski> right sleep time before I kill someone tomorrow
<czajkowski> nn folks
<aquarius> marsilainen, you can set it, but it's complex and dangerous. Install CompizConfig Settings Manager, and then go to General options > Desktop Size
<aquarius> marsilainen, beware: CCSM may break your machine into a hundred pieces. If you're not confident with it, don't use it. :)
<aquarius> and Kemper answers my question! blimey, that's service.
<aquarius> however, the answer is: "run the latest shutter" :(
<monsterwizard> Would  I be able to write script that gets permissions of a share point and propagate them through tools subfolders?
<aquarius> and gnome-screenshot doen't support interactively choosing a window :(
<aquarius> monsterwizard, what's "a share point", here?
<marsilainen> aquarius: ok, thanks for the info... guess I'll leave it
<monsterwizard> what can it be?
<AlanBell> aquarius: what do you mean by interactively choosing a window?
<marsilainen> is there any plan to make it more "available" in later releases?
<marsilainen> kind of feels like I've taken a step back...
<aquarius> marsilainen, I believe there are plans to make the number of workspaces more configurable, yes
<marsilainen> 4 virtual desktops is not what I'm used to... I usually had 10 in gnome...
<aquarius> monsterwizard, I'm not sure what you mean by "share point": perhaps you can explain in more detail?
<monsterwizard> aquarius can I get back to you? There's a debate on this atm, sorry
<aquarius> AlanBell, try "shutter -w"
<aquarius> monsterwizard, no problem
<aquarius> AlanBell, you'll see (if you have shutter) that you get to mouse around adn have windows highlighted until you pick one to screenshot. that's excellent. gnome-screenshot doesn't let you do that, afaict
<AlanBell> gnome-screenshot -i
<aquarius> ya. that gives you the options dialog.
<aquarius> Hm. Have had a thought.
<AlanBell> grab current window, delay 10 seconds, take screenshot, go hunting
<AlanBell> 15 seconds if you are using the unity alt-tab switcher
<aquarius> maybe this should be the flow: you click in my app, it says "launching <yourapp>...", then "click in <your app>'s window..." and then, when the focus leaves my window, shells out to "gnome-screenshot -w -d=3" and counts down "3, 2, 1" in my window.
<aquarius> screws you a bit for maximised things, but you oughtn't to be taking pictures of maximised windows anyway
<AlanBell> or alt+prtscr, done.
<AlanBell> ooh, I think I see what you want to do
<AlanBell> aquarius: is it a bit like the tool the ubuntu manual team knocked together to do automated screenshots?
<aquarius> sort of
<aquarius> what it does is: get the list of apps which do not have screenshots from screenshots.ubutnu.com, cross-reference that with the list of apps that you have installed, and then give you a list.
<aquarius> so you pick one on the list, it starts, you screenshot it, and then the app helps you upload the screenshot to screenshots.ubuntu.com
<aquarius> the problem is the "it starts, you screenshot it" bit.:)
<aquarius> would ask mpt but he's not around ;)
<AlanBell> I see
<AlanBell> shutter has quite a few dependencies
<AlanBell> would be nice to do it using gnome-screenshot or in the same way as gnome-screenshot
<aquarius> yeah, that's what I'm thinking
<AlanBell> is there some kind of moderation process?
<AlanBell> or can I just upload a picture of anything my imagination can think of?
<AlanBell> and what happens if 20 people upload a screenshot of a particular application?
<AlanBell> and why am I not in bed yet?
<AlanBell> night all o/
<aquarius> bah
<aquarius> gnome-screenshot doesn't let you take a picture without showing it to the user and making them save it :(
<aquarius> AlanBell, that's one less beer I owe you ;)
<funkyHat> aquarius: try scrot
<Azelphur> I use scrot too, it's cool
<funkyHat> Unfortunate name, I know
<aquarius> funkyHat, people aren't likely to have that installed, though
<Azelphur> and yea I get comments all the time with the name :D
<aquarius> I'm doing it the hard way with gtk.gdk :)
<Azelphur> I'd really like something smart so I can select which (combination) of screens I want it to screenshot.
<funkyHat> must...not...eat...whole...bag...of...bombay...mix
<ali1234> buggity bug bug bug 890955
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 890955 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "maximized windows cover the panel with dual head" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/890955
<Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fvTinaFzQE my old teachers on CNN
<Myrtti> never been to the new school building tho
<popey> morning
<popey> mmmmm poached eggs
<AlanBell> nom
<AlanBell> morning all
<popey> Also cappucino
<popey> AlanBell: wifey says if I can find a babysitter for 9th dec, she will come
<AlanBell> great
<AlanBell> my wifey says no.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
<popey> awww
<AlanBell> morning
 * TheOpenSourcerer is playing golf that day and then has a pantomime to go to.
<AlanBell> oh no you haven't
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
 * TheOpenSourcerer has just setup something called "todo.txt" Quite a nice idea actually. Plain text based todo list with a simple cli: $ t add my todo todo.
<TheOpenSourcerer> $ t ls
<AlanBell> interesting
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://todotxt.com/
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: surely that's a very longwinded way of saying echo "add my todo todo" >> todo.txt
<TheOpenSourcerer> "t add" is shorter than echo "foo" >> filename
 * TheOpenSourcerer has a sickly child at home today... Main benefit is we will keep the heating on :-)
<popey> hah
<popey> wifey asked me last night if i wanted to change the heating now I work from home
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have found that heating the whole house everyday of the week is not cheap.
<popey> indeed
<popey> i just put a jumper on âº
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have quite a large house with lots of leaky bits too :-(
 * TheOpenSourcerer has his "house jumper" on. That's the one that is baggy, saggy a bit smelly, has a few holes in it, but is snuggly.
<popey> ahh
<popey> hehe
<popey> i need to delete some stuff, my backup disk is full
<TheOpenSourcerer> My office is only a single brick construction too. When it gets really cold I use an electric heater.
<popey> my den tends to keep the chill off because i have a few computers on
<popey> by 'few' I mean 4
 * TheOpenSourcerer notes popey has a "den" - not yet an office.
<popey> yeah, thats 'Under Construction'
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<MartijnVdS> Building a new office wing, popey? :)
<popey> yeah
<popey> time to delete some steam games
<popey> hmm, i cant open steam
<MartijnVdS> apt-get purge some_game
<MartijnVdS> popey: you should be able to uninstall Steam games from the "standard" list of software in Windows
<popey> osx
 * popey reinstalls steam
<popey> yay, updating steam
<rml_home> this'll seem a really noddy question, but I can't find the "shutdown/restart" button in 11.10.  Am I being completely blind?
<AlanBell> rml_home: top right, select shutdown, restart is hiding in there
<AlanBell> or press a hardware power button somewhere
 * TheOpenSourcerer recalls when you could still type "SUPER+S" to bring up that menu... 10:10.
<AlanBell> wow, that does something interesting
<rml_home> AlanBell: Thanks, but I still can't see it.  I have an envelope, connection icon, clock and session icon, but no shutdown icon
<rml_home> it used to look like a power button in 11.4 iirc
<AlanBell> and at the bottom of the session indicator?
<AlanBell> which is a cog like power button icon
<rml_home> User accounts is the botom menu item
<AlanBell> oh, that is the me menu
<AlanBell> so you don't appear to have the session indicator
<rml_home> I guess not.  I'll have a play with user settings
<diplo> Ctrl Alt Delete brings up the shutdown menu for me ( Lost my indicator as well )
<rml_home> I'm glad I'm not the only one.  I thought I was going nuts
<AlanBell> rml_home: we haven't ruled that out yet ;)
<rml_home> very true ;)
<DJones> Morning all
<danfish> morning
<danfish> popey: working from home.
<danfish> me jealous
<danfish> but ...http://theoatmeal.com/comics/working_home  <- possibly not 'work friendly'
<MooDoo> morning all
<selinuxium> morning   o/
<BigRedS> good morning!
<danfish> anyone got a good tab management extension for chrome/chromium? Got gazillions of tabs open that I (may) need.
<BigRedS> ctrl+d ?
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<danfish> BigRedS: I suppose so. Must get around to sorting out the tons of bookmarks.....:/
<mattt> morning morning
<MooDoo> :)
<DJones> Heh, just had to send an email to the hilton hotel, persons surname was Paris so the email address was paris@hilton :)
<bigcalm> Cute
<andylockran> After each update to the tzdata package I have to run: `mysql_tzinfo_to_sql /usr/share/zoneinfo | mysql -u root -p mysql` to update the tzinfo in MySQL.
<andylockran> I want to report a bug to see if that can be done as a post-installation hook for tzdata - so would I file a bug against tzdata or mysql, or both?
<BigRedS> andylockran: I'd vote tzdata
<daubers> Morning
<BigRedS> because it's somethign that shoudl happen when that's updated
<andylockran> BigRedS: Thanks
<popey> http://fridrich.blogspot.com/2011/11/it-has-been-long-time-since-i-last-time.html sweet
<andylockran> BigRedS: Question asked in Launchpad - can be turned to a bug on either package \o/
<BigRedS> andylockran: oh, cool
<BigRedS> do both, see who fixes it first :)
<bigcalm> Bug report on both then :)
<bigcalm> Only 3 people have super confirmed going to the xmas meal so far. Come on peeps, it'll be a spiffing evening :) http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
<MooDoo> too far and a bit pricey for so close to christmas :(
<DJones> Welcome Barbarian
<Barbarian> o/
<recentlydeceased> is there any way to stop the activities dash in gnome-shell from opening when triggering the top-left of the screen?
<awilkins> Is it possible to link directly to a channel at http://webchat.freenode.net  ?
<daubers> awilkins: Yup... but I can't remember how
<awilkins> I've found a thread
<awilkins> You give it a ?channels=  parameter   http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-uk
<DJones> That surprises me, I would have thought not because of the recaptcha prove you're not a bit
<DJones> s/bit/bot/
<dr_barnowl> Hello awilkins
<popey> there is a button at teh top to make links
<awilkins> Hello, me
<popey> 'add to your site'
<awilkins> Hmm, I wonder if I can get away with embedding that in an Outlook HTML email... I can mail people a webchat... (probably not, darn hackers and jscript)
<MartijnVdS> <iframe>
<DJones> Still needs the recaptcha to be completed before joining though, so can't quite automatically connect to a channel
<awilkins> I just got one with greek letters in it
<awilkins> Understandably, I reloaded...
<awilkins> Ah well, Outlook won't let you paste an iframe in, didn't really expect it to work....
<JamesTait> Hello, hello!
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, prod, prod, prod
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 long time no abuse...:)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Yeah stomach bug, cold combo not good :(
<MooDoo> booo
<davmor2> bigcalm: You ready for tomorrow dude
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> davmor2: aye, just hope I'm not asked to deploy a site tomorrow
<davmor2> bigcalm: nice it's always fun
<bigcalm> You know I said I've give Unity a go on my laptop for a month? Other day I gave in and installed xubuntu-desktop. I tried my best, but I just can't be productive in Unity :(
<MooDoo> davmor2: welcome back mate :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: you might have more joy with the new version coming out FFM, multi monitor support etc etc etc etc
<bigcalm> Here's hoping :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: what have you done to czajkowski
<MooDoo> davmor2: i've not seen her in a couple of days.....
<bigcalm> FFM? I know what that means in a completely non-family-friendly way, but not here
<davmor2> bigcalm: Focus Follows Mouse :)
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> Never liked that
<bigcalm> I have a habbit of clicking on a window and then throwing the mouse to the side
<davmor2> bigcalm: no but a lot of real geeks do :D
<bigcalm> Oooo, careful :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: haha
<davmor2> gord: you set for tomorrow?
<MooDoo> davmor2: i've asked gord if he'll punch you on the arm for me :D
<andylockran> :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: cool I get gord to reproduce the hit I give him onto you too dude :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: hehe :)
<oimon> i thought copyright expired 50yrs after death in the UK? has this changed recently?
<andylockran> oimon: I think so
<andylockran> last year
<MooDoo> http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p10_duration
<andylockran> Life + 70 years
<oimon> ugh
<oimon> what a scam
<andylockran> :(
<andylockran> actually - that link suggests othersie
<andylockran> nope - the link agrees with me
<oimon> Â For example, in the UK most work is protected for the life of the author plus 70 years
<andylockran> the Berne Convention says 50
<andylockran> Peter Pan :D
<oimon> i'm thinking of written works.
<oimon> so if you owned george orwells books before the rule was changed, is it now copyright violation to own them?
<daubers> Heh, the police state comes down hard on you for owning a copy of 1984
<daubers> somewhat amusing
<gord> oimon, once work is in the public domain, its in the public domain forever, you can't re-grab copyright on it
<gord> davmor2, no idea, i assume i'll find a train and arrive, something about a lighthouse, i'll figure it out
<davmor2> gord: you have no excuse there was an email about it last week ;) 09:00-17:00 at the lighthouse indeed :)
<oimon> time to re-read 1984 anyways :)
<danfish> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15742055
<danfish> and in other breaking news "the Pope is Catholic"
<DJones> Only on sundays though :)
<brobostigon> lol :)
 * brobostigon likes pope jokes.
<bigcalm> There was an email?
<bigcalm> brobostigon: you must love joke.popey.com then
<brobostigon> bigcalm: hmm, kinda, but quite an obvious joke for here.
<bigcalm> That's odd
<bigcalm> The Update Manager no longer requests authorisation before installing updates
<bigcalm> Is this a feature of 11.10?
<KrisDouglas> bigcalm, I just tested, it asked me for my password?
<diplo> bigcalm, Only time I get there is if I have authed with something else recently, seems to have a session based time out for it
<bigcalm> Nothing else has been asking me for auth
<popey> correct
<popey> it no longer asks for password if its just updating existing packages
<bigcalm> popey: thanks
<popey> see lengthy thread about how this is evil on the -users list
<daubers> popey: Isn't all change evil?
<popey> bug 811166
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 814331 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #811166 [Oneiric] update-manager installs packages without authentication" [High,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/814331
<BigRedS> haha
<popey> sorry, bug 814331
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 814331 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "[Oneiric] update-manager installs packages without authentication" [High,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/814331
 * BigRedS reports bug for Linux being too easy to use
<popey> note it only applies to update manager
<popey> not apt-get
<popey> so you have to be sat at the machine looking at the desktop
<popey> and logged in
<popey> (not locked)
<DJones> bigcalm: I've noticed that bug as well, same things happening, but on another machine, it asks for the password
<bigcalm> I didn't know if it was a bug or a feature
<KrisDouglas> I am asked every time with update manager
<KrisDouglas> I am used to it because I update to the chromium nightly every couple of days
<popey> do you start update manager manually? or the popup?
<DJones> I wait until the icon in the unity bar says there are updates, then click the icon
<gord> unity bar, thats a new one to add to the list
<bigcalm> I do the same for my desktop as I'm lazy like that. For my servers I tend to apt-get upgrade whenever apticron tells me there are updates
<DJones> gord: :)
<DJones> Maybe I should have said the dis-unity bar
<popey> I upgrade all my machines at once with landscape :D
<dogmatic69> is that proprietary
<Daviey> popey: Where can i find out more about this landscape thing you talk of?
<dogmatic69> http://www.canonical.com/enterprise-services/ubuntu-advantage/landscape
<Daviey> If i can lower my management and administration costs, i'm signing up now!
 * gord smells something fishy
<Laney> you left the tuna out
<bigcalm> gord: corporate shills, every one of them ;)
<Daviey> heh
 * awilkins has persuaded services manager to try out Landscape.
<awilkins> Hopfully it's a gateway drug that facilitates some support contract payments
<popey> âº
 * popey high fives the corporate shills in the room
<bigcalm> Growing in number
<popey> heh
 * selinuxium has landscape but has yet to install it... 
<Laney> I want to play with the shiny new Kindle that I got for the missus, but it comes in a stupidly sealed box :(
<shauno> repack it in a manilla envelope.  it'll look just like some adverts she vaguely recalls.
<davmor2> popey: o/
<Laney> just had to... test it worked...
<davmor2> Laney: I couldn't give it you with a cracked screen and the box was rattling?
<shauno> give it the wifi password & bring it up to a full charge.  yaknow, just to make sure she gets the optimal first impression ;)
<davmor2> Laney: or the nicer one, I wanted it to have a full charge and your favourite books on so you could start reading immediately :D
<AlanBell> choo choo
 * AlanBell is off to the Home Office
 * AlanBell has landscape, 60 day trial that started um, about 2 years ago
<Myrtti> hohum
<davmor2> AlanBell: The Home Office or your home office :D
<AlanBell> davmor2: The Home Office
<gord> is The Home Office what you *call* your home office?
<AlanBell> the home office was where I was before I got on the train
<davmor2> AlanBell: in that case do your top button up you scruff ;)
<AlanBell> davmor2: is this webcam on???
<danfish> what - someone made AlanBell home secretary? Craziness ;)
<davmor2> danfish: no that would be sensible
 * AlanBell wonders what to legalise
<daubers> Moida!
 * AlanBell is basically working on the legalisation of Free Software
<danfish> heh - sensible. Can't remember what that was.
<danfish> AlanBell: don't legalise things - make things compulsory
 * AlanBell puts on the Stallman wig and sprinkles cheese on toseies
<AlanBell> danfish: they did use the word mandatory, which was a struggle
<gord> you can ban that for a start
<AlanBell> it is now mandatory to consider open source options
 * daubers eats an apple and has a brief power trip
<danfish> the devil is in the word 'consider'
<andylockran> :D
<andylockran> I am thirsty - :D
<danfish> my first act as PM or home sec would be to move the UK to GMT+48hrs making today Friday
<bigcalm> Heh
<daubers> danfish: My first act would be to get somone else to make a brew
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - did someone saw brew?
<TheOpenSourcerer> And a biscuit please :-)
<brobostigon> :)
 * AlanBell wonders how to fit lunch in to the schedule
<brobostigon> pub lunch, take work with you.?
<davmor2> AlanBell: eat on the train you know it makes sense
<AlanBell> ask the Home Office to move the meeting to the pub. Excellent idea.
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> yeah
<AlanBell> davmor2: I am on the train, without the food
<danfish> AlanBell: a 'fit lunch' - run to the home office whilst eating a sarny ;)
<Daviey> danfish: considering hour changes always happen on the weekend, right?  Your +48hours thing, would remove everyones Sunday.
<davmor2> AlanBell: there's your first mistake
<gord> pack lunch into a transformers lunch box, take out during meeting, proceed to squeal in delight at having lunchables
<davmor2> gord: haha
<davmor2> gord: you doing that tomorrow :D
<Daviey> gord: Thomas the tank engine > transformers, any day.
<danfish> Daviey: it would be a one-off presidential order, reversed on the Saturday night
<popey> Daviey: Rory the Racing Car > Thomas the tank engine
 * brobostigon would probebly go with android lunchbox.
<TheOpenSourcerer> A Dr. Who lunch box (with Dalek sound effects) beats Thomas
<danfish> Lightning McQueen leaves Rory the racing car for dust
<brobostigon> or a pink floyd lunch box :)
<brobostigon> with pink floyd mug, with dsofm emblem on the front.
<davmor2> popey: bob the builder > rory the racing car
<brobostigon> dsotm*
 * daubers had a teenage mutant ninja turtles lunch box 
<daubers> then a stingray one
<daubers> stingray wins
<davmor2> AlanBell: Just do the "sudo make me a sandwich on arrival"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right. ENOUGH of this nonsense. There is a difficult economic climate. "Get back to work you scurvy dogs (ahhh harrr)"
<Daviey> daubers: who didn't?!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Time for lunch.
<davmor2> daubers: I think you'll find that Thunderbirds beats stingray
<KrisDouglas> I like them both, stingray can have more depth than Thunderbirds at time, but Thunderbirds wins.
<shauno> terrahawks>thunderbirds.  just because zeroids are cool.
<KrisDouglas> And I will just leave Terrahawks here to be appreciated too
<brobostigon> wallace and gromit, lunchbox, win also :)
<davmor2> StarFleet beats them all
<KrisDouglas> My girlfriend and I are watching terrahawks at the moment
<KrisDouglas> we're on about episode 5 :)
<danfish> couldn't afford lunchboxes as kids......
<KrisDouglas> davmor2, never herd of StarFleet
<brobostigon> KrisDouglas: star trek :)
<KrisDouglas> brobostigon, are you sure he doesn't mean the english dub of X-Bomber?
<brobostigon> KrisDouglas: i would associate it with star trek, not heard of that one.
 * AlanBell observes the happy hour and christmas meal links got sent round Canonical UK this morning
<KrisDouglas> StarFleet/X-Bomber has a very similar appearance to terrahawks it seems.
<davmor2> brobostigon: there was a StarFleet before startrek you know
<popey> indeed they did
<brobostigon> davmor2: i am sure, yes, but that is not where i mainly associate the word from.
<davmor2> KrisDouglas: brobostigon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExC6OEQazrc
<KrisDouglas> Yeah, that is what I came across
<davmor2> KrisDouglas: Then ofcourse you have Battle of the Planets and Thundercats and He-man and She-ra and defenders of the earth and .........
<KrisDouglas> I haven't actually seen any of those
<brobostigon> oh wow, that is certainly, ummm, original.
<KrisDouglas> *adds to list*
<popey> Ulysees 31!
<KrisDouglas> brobostigon, isn't the fat ginger one hilarious :)
<brobostigon> KrisDouglas: looks, yes.
<davmor2> popey: dungeons and dragons
<Daviey> I want one of these bad boys, http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/images/B005W2Z64Q
<DJones> I noticed that one of the kids channels is showing new series of thundercats
<MartijnVdS> Daviey: it's insulated!
<KrisDouglas> I really want a Hudson voice from Terrahawks on my TomTom
<davmor2> Daviey: We're going to have to kill you now to save you!
<KrisDouglas> Daviey, ...
<Daviey> :)
 * brobostigon wants a sexy female voice on his satnav, like marilyn monroe, or similer.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: the default Android voice isn't sexy enough?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: definatly no where near, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: What about Stephen Fry? I know he doesn't have a sexy female voice.. but still
<brobostigon> equally, i know a few women, who want a husky mans voice, for there satnav.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting idea.
<popey> gord: remind me, should I have vblank on or off in unity?
<gord> popey, i think vblank off if you are running other GL stuff inside compiz
<AlanBell> right, waterloo. Laters all o/
<KrisDouglas> bye
<KrisDouglas> Does anybody here use Linux Mint?
<DJones> I think that might be a no
<KrisDouglas> I would be inclined to agree
<KrisDouglas> Odd really, I was having a look at it, and I don't know if it's going to get me burned on a stake saying this, but it's a lot slicker than Ubuntu
<KrisDouglas> (with Unity)
<bigcalm> That's been mentioned a few times here and there
<bigcalm> I personally use xubuntu-desktop (xfce) so don't mind ;)
<BigRedS> omgubuntu were a bit derisory towards mint's hotch-potch of gnome bits
<BigRedS> that is, admittedly, the closest I've come to trying mint
<KrisDouglas> BigRedS, though it does appear to be a bit of a mix of parts, it somehow feels that little bit more seamless than unity
<KrisDouglas> bigcalm, I am considering giving XFCE a try
<bigcalm> KrisDouglas: it's like using gnome classic
<KrisDouglas> I need to find something to replace unity, it doesn't feel right having 2 22" monitors. Unity feels like a tablet shell.
<KrisDouglas> bigcalm, it looks more like gnome than I thought it did actually.
<KrisDouglas> The last time I used XFCE it was running on an original Xbox upon Gentoo
<BigRedS> XFCE's basically like using gnome from 2005
<KrisDouglas> And then there is KDE, I quite enjoyed that when I was running SuSE
<AlanBell> did you know that even if you ask nicely you can't park a bike at the Home Office
<bigcalm> AlanBell: you might be hiding subversives in the saddle
<shauno> they'll do anything to keep boris away
<KrisDouglas> BigRedS, that's not necessarily a bad thing from my point of view, i want something that stays out of my way. Every time I have to hover my mouse on the left hand edge of my screen, click a button, and search for a name, I die a little inside.
<BigRedS> oh, no. I know there's people who want it
<BigRedS> but the people who wanted gnome2 as it was in maverick probably don't want xfce
<Laney> why can't you use the super key?
<KrisDouglas> I was getting annoyed with Gnome 2 in Maverick
<KrisDouglas> Laney, because when I use the super key it doesn't always open, especially when I am in a remote desktop session or similar
<KrisDouglas> I do prefer unity to Gnome 2 in 10.10, there have been some improvements
<KrisDouglas> But i'm still not content with window management, and I am quite annoyed that I cannot put my finger on what it is I don't like.
<KrisDouglas> Considering I have widescreen monitors having it on the left edge is wondrous
<KrisDouglas> Especially when I look at my colleague who is a mac user. He doesn't have the dock auto-hide, so he loses about 2/3 of an inch of space of his already meagre 1280x800 resolution
<shauno> I really like using the bottom edge.  since I rarely have to mouse to status bars, I don't get that "jump in your face when you were aiming for a different widet" effect
<brobostigon> this is why i like in gnome-shell the notification thingie, disappears, so it doesnt use any screen space. other than the bar at the top, with the clock and that stuff in, it is quite space efficiant i reckon.
<KrisDouglas> shauno, the bottom edge is where I naturally prefer it, but it makes sense for it to be on the left/right. Took me a while to get used to, but I do sortof prefer it
<KrisDouglas> brobostigon, I have never used Gnome shell, but it does look tidy
<brobostigon> KrisDouglas: it is, yes.
 * brobostigon likes to be able to reply to stuff in empathy, directly from notifications.
<KrisDouglas> gnome shell looks like Android Honeycomb
<KrisDouglas> ...upside down.
<brobostigon> i have not used honeycomb.
<brobostigon> before.
<BigRedS> brobostigon: the gnome-shell notifications are infuriating with a full-screen terminal :/
<nymwar> Agree
<BigRedS> I don't see why they can't just use the top panel, which you can't do anything useful with anyway
<KrisDouglas> I run terminator with about 6 boxes open
<nymwar> The position of the notifications should be configurable
<KrisDouglas> To be fair, all that top panel seems to do is show the time
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i have my terminal here mostly full screen with the topbar visiable, how does it behave, i havent tried it full full screen.
<KrisDouglas> could something more constructive not be done with it?
<brobostigon> KrisDouglas: it also shows nm-applet and all that stuff.
<BigRedS> brobostigon: well, the notification from the bottom covers up the bottom 12mm or so of my sreen, which is a line-and-a-bit of text
<BigRedS> so when someione jabbers me I need to stop working for a few secodns until the notification goes away
<nymwar> The top bar could be temporarily replaced by notifications.  That way you could continue hacking on a maximized terminal
<KrisDouglas> yeah, but I am looking at a demo of it, brobostigon, and it seems to be the top right 2" are the only bits with anything on
<brobostigon> BigRedS: ah, i run byobu, so it doesnt cover here, i never really thought about that,]
<brobostigon> KrisDouglas: the whole stripe i would say, yes.
<BigRedS> ah yeah, it's fine with screen or whatever, but I keep not using screen
<BigRedS> I've started using pidgin now, though, because I got infurated with empathy not doing away-on-idle
<nymwar> To make it blingy the top bar could be like a cylinder which rotates to show notifications
<KrisDouglas> Has pidgin made any improvements lately, I havent used it on Linux since it was un-included from Ubuntu
<KrisDouglas> I still use it on windows
<KrisDouglas> nymwar, that would be interesting to see
<BigRedS> it does xmpp priority now
<brobostigon> BigRedS: ah, i see, ok.
<BigRedS> apart from that, I don't think so. The conversation log interface is a bit less insane than empathy's, too
<nymwar> Maybe I should patent the top bar cylinder idea, then have MS pay me royalties ;-)
<BigRedS> nymwar: it doesn't work in that direction! :)
<TREllis> AlanBell: btw, Marianna did send your mails in the end, I guess she had a backlog :)
<davmor2> TREllis: She works for Canonical right you only need a minute away from your computer before you have a backlog :D
<TREllis> ;-)
<TREllis> davmor2: filtering++ that way I feel like I'm caught up, even if I'm months behind
<davmor2> TREllis: ah Not the select all mark as read approach then ;)
<BigRedS> davmor2: mark as spam, prevents the problem recurring
<davmor2> BigRedS: You'd go far, but only because it's a 27 floor lift ride to the coat rack ;)
<BigRedS> haha
<KrisDouglas> doink
<KrisDouglas> I am going to now install XFCE
<KrisDouglas> Before I kill myself
<BigRedS> why not just not install it and not go on to kill yourself?
<KrisDouglas> BigRedS, because that's not entertaining enough
<BigRedS> haha
<KrisDouglas> am I right in thinking the best procedure is to run apt-get install xfce4?
<KrisDouglas> or is there a desktop-like metapackage that has more goodies in it?
<BigRedS> not in ubuntu
<BigRedS> apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
<KrisDouglas> ty
<BigRedS> gets you what you probably want
<KrisDouglas> I am going to have a play
<KrisDouglas> 89.7mb of archives
<KrisDouglas> hmm
<KrisDouglas> 63 seconds
<KrisDouglas> thats wrong
<KrisDouglas> brb
<KrisDouglas> Hello
<KrisDouglas> I am enjoying XFCE so far
<KrisDouglas> I think I need to tinker with my Window Manager a bit, it's a bit ugly
<KrisDouglas> (Only because I changed it to that :))
<bigcalm> You changed it to 'ugly' ?
<czajkowski> http://fosdem.org/2012/  79 days to FOSDEM
<bigcalm> czajkowski: !
<bigcalm> czajkowski: 9th Dec, xmas meal, you know you want to :)
<MooDoo> rats belgium :(
<bigcalm> !language | MooDoo
<lubotu3`> MooDoo: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<MartijnVdS> Ah, the rudest word in the universe :)
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> Glad somebody else knows this :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: I may come along afterwards but I'm a bad eater and the thought of someone serving me stuff I dont like isn't kinda me, think it's a nice idea mind you
<czajkowski> different
<bigcalm> Ho hum
<czajkowski> I'm really bad to bring places for food
<czajkowski> :s
<czajkowski> sorry
<KrisDouglas> Pardon my ignorance but which one was rude ;)
<KrisDouglas> bigcalm, Yeah, I changed it to ugly, it was an accident, I think.
 * bigcalm hugs czajkowski
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks czajkowski just lives on the black stuff.
<bigcalm> Bovril?
<MooDoo> bovril o/ FTW!
 * TheOpenSourcerer says "Could be!" in the voice of Hong Kong Phooey
<czajkowski> ugh Bovril
<czajkowski> yuck
 * MooDoo has just stopped respecting czajkowski 
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: you prefer marmite?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Marmite rocks.
<DJones> Speaking of black stuff, I've got some HP sauce with Guiness at home, its a bit of an acquired taste :)
<bigcalm> I have a bottle of that, but not tried it yet
<DJones> Its an interesting combination
<brobostigon> DJones: i tried that hp, on sausage sandwiches the other day, very yummy, :)
<popey> \o/ marmite highligh
<popey> +t
<bigcalm> popey: you put it in your hair?
<popey> not commonly
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: popey has cats. Cats love marmite...
<bigcalm> Salty
<TheOpenSourcerer> Our cat likes Earwax :-D
<bigcalm> Why are you feeding your cat earwax?
 * TheOpenSourcerer was waiting for that
<TheOpenSourcerer> I "discovered" that factoid by accident.
<TheOpenSourcerer> A dangling hand off the sofa after digging around in my ear...
<gord> #disgustingfactoftheday
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting factoid #2. I discovered this on our previous cat.
<shauno> could have been worse.  our kittens used to like sitting on my head, and along the back of my neck when watching tv.  imagine if they'd gone for some fresh produce
<gord> fresh is not the word i would choose
<popey> well known that cats like earwax
<popey> they go nuts for it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is it popey? Well I never.
<popey> google cats and earwax
<popey> first hit is a b3ta link about it, nsfw
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<popey> well, sfw, just for child minds
<popey> so dont read it gord !
 * bigcalm tuts
<shauno> guess it kinda makes sense.  it's kinda fun & tangy.  and we feed them freeze-dried cardboard ..
<popey> 'tangy'
<popey> lol
<bigcalm> I've never tasted a bit and thought, mmm more
<shauno> you don't live on freeze-dried cardboard :)
<gord> am not a child >:(
<shauno> I'm not sure I could have cats again.  our last attempt at modifying the local food chain went slightly wrong
<KrisDouglas> shauno, you aren't supposed to eat your cat.
<shauno> I didn't.  they woulda beat me in a fight :)
<shauno> we got cats because we had a chipmunk infestation.  it worked rather well, until some passing cyotes discovered we had a feline infestation ..
<KrisDouglas> Interesting
<KrisDouglas> Did you eat the cyotes?
<shauno> haha.  hungry?
<MooDoo> ed0fj34x"Â£R423trÂ£$!VÂ£$vt"Â£$%341v5Â£$!V23415  replace each letter with a swear word
<dogmatic69> that is a lot of swear words
<KrisDouglas> shauno, not now. :)P
<KrisDouglas> MooDoo do they all have to be english?
<MooDoo> KrisDouglas: not at all no!
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: sorry just found out about work christmas hols
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: or lack of them... ?
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: have to work boxing day
<dogmatic69> telecomute?
<MooDoo> nope
<MooDoo> in the offoce
<MooDoo> office
<dogmatic69> bah
<MooDoo> yup
<dogmatic69> in the snow
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: oh that doesn't bother me, just working boxing day??  pah!
<MooDoo> anyone need a tea biatch?
<dogmatic69> did you pull the short straw?
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: yeah
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: wife / kids?
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: 1 wife 1 3 year old and 1 2 month old
<dogmatic69> normally that gets you off the days like that
<dogmatic69> clearly they dont care about family stuff
<MooDoo> +1
<dogmatic69> 2 month old... $sleep--
<MooDoo> oh well :)
<Barbarian> evenin' gents
<Oli> MooDoo: I read that as you having a 13yo wife.
<Oli> Clear sign: I need tea.
<Barbarian> I have tea. It is delicious
<MooDoo> Oli: should i be worried about you? ;)
<Darael> Depends.  Is there any sign of sanity present?  If so, then yes, be worried.
<MooDoo> select * from sanity where user = 'logged into ubuntu-uk';
<MooDoo> no results returned!
<Darael> Ah.  Phew.
<Myrtti> my INternet connection is so bad, even the one in UK is better :-(
<Myrtti> this makes me a sad puppy
<davmor2> Myrtti: no don't be a sad puppy be a sad kitten instead :D
<bigcalm> Kittens do rock
<BigRedS> kittens don't come in 'sad'
<MooDoo> http://andshesaidit.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/sad_kitten1.jpg
<MooDoo> http://www.innocentenglish.com/cute-pictures/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/very-cute-kittens-picture.jpg
<bigcalm> So sad
<popey> not surprised he's sad with all that drop shadow
<bigcalm> :)
<MooDoo> hehe
<BigRedS> haha
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - Time to go and annoy my wife by peering knowledgeably into her cooking vessels and going "hmmm".
<popey> stir them!
<TheOpenSourcerer> That does it too!
<popey> then add some salt
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> or pretend to
<TheOpenSourcerer> That sounds just like - err - home.
<Darael> TheOpenSourcerer: Sounds mildly cruel, and immoderately amusing.  I approve.
<popey> @D
 * MooDoo daren't go home tonight after telling my wofe i have to work boxing day :S
<Darael> MooDoo: Thy wofe?
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: Then go to the pub and get blindly drunk.
<MooDoo> yeah went into west country mode then
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: oh that would work lol
 * Darael tries to come up with an entertaining definition of "wofe".  Possibly past tense of wife, but that's not really inventive enough.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, but at least her screaming won't bother you much.
 * MooDoo eyes up the pub down the road
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: add a crafty chili or two to the pot when her back is turned :D
<Myrtti> when I'm looking at iftop and seeing weird traffic that doesn't make any sense, how would you start pinpointing where the problem is? I'm trying to download Fedora on Transmission and every time I put transmission on, it gets really slow speeds and the quality of the connection in every app goes south like duck in winter
<Myrtti> also my Belkin complains about SYN flood outbound something or other
<Myrtti> oh, it seems to go both ways
<shauno> the later would lead me to believe Transmission is mustering up more connections than your router can handle.  you'll probably get better performance if you can cap the maximum it'll create
<danfish> Myrtti: I've just learnt to accept that as normal with p2p
<Myrtti> I wonder would trying out with maverick laptop work better than the oneiric tablet
<Myrtti> I just haven't experienced anything like this before
<bigcalm> Speaking of laptops, I'd better make sure mine is working for tomorrow's day in Wolverhampton
<Myrtti> I'm supposed to have 24M inbound
<shauno> I don't supose your router offers any facility to see what its memory usage looks like?
<Myrtti> barely getting 1K in with torrent, and even then ssh and http connections just drop
<bigcalm> ddwrt \o/
<Myrtti> yeah, thanks, bigcalm. I just bought this Belkin :-<
<davmor2> MooDoo: Just find a new job in the meantime where you don't need to ;)
<shauno> if it's what it sounds like, it's not linespeed; nat requires the router to track each connection in memory. when you start running out of memory, you'll have issues creating new connections
<popey> Myrtti: I'd use HTTP to get the iso, Red Hat can afford the bandwidth :D
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I'm sorry :(
<MooDoo> davmor2: trying
<davmor2> Myrtti: switch it off and on again it's the ultimate IT fix :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: I feel sorry for you, but tell her it could be worse you could have to work newyears eve, think of the brewery owners that would go bust if that happened ;)
<Myrtti> also perpetually annoyed that the wan connection settings don't seem to change from VCI MUX to LLC no matter how many times I try to change the settings
<davmor2> Myrtti: Yeah but you bought a belkin you didn't expect it to work right did you?
<Myrtti> davmor2: well I expected more than from a TeleWell or others I've had
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm ok with it, wife is fuming lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: Newyears eve?
<MooDoo> davmor2: only working boxing day....off otherwise will 3rd jan
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's my point how much worse would it be to have to work on new years eve
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'd work it, that's one day i don't care about at all
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's the biggest party of the year and you use words like don't care
<davmor2> MooDoo: shame on you
<MooDoo> let's use something else.....REALLY REALLY DON'T CARE :)
<Myrtti> I must have slipped into some weird universe
<Myrtti> I don't know how to quit htop anymore
<Myrtti> ah there we go
<MooDoo> q?
<Darael> Indeed, q.
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm getting this I don't care vibe from you but I'm hearing P.......A.......R........T........Y? cus I gotta
<gord> davmor2, where am i going again tomorrow? i mean once i get to this lighthouse place, what am i doing?
<daubers> gord: The polka??
<bigcalm> gord: go to the cafe
<bigcalm> gord: buy me a coffee
<davmor2> gord: head for the cafe
<davmor2> gord: and don't fall for bigcalms buy me a drink query
<gord> davmor2, you are in the directory right? i'll just call you or something when i inevitably get lost ;)
<davmor2> gord: did you ever go to LRL?
<gord> nope
<MartijnVdS> its 1Â°C out.. time for a run! ;)
<davmor2> gord: okay in that case you walk out the train station straight up till you get to the traffic lights and turn right it's on the right last building but yeah give me a ring :)
<davmor2> gord: it's literally 2 minutes tops. and you can see the big CHUBB sign as you come out of the station
<gordonjcp> heh
<gordonjcp> yeah, it's quite noticeable
<bigcalm> 1,511 results for 'lugradio' on flickr and I still haven't found a picture of the outside of the building
<bigcalm> There is this though: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_d/1241988602/
<davmor2> gord: http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=wolverhampton+train+station&daddr=52.58744,-2.1234+to:Long+St&hl=en&sll=52.587046,-2.122054&sspn=0.001349,0.003484&geocode=FbxsIgMdUqff_yEkRwg-Bjx2fw%3BFbBrIgMdeJnf_yn1vMnjkZtwSDFRYxvMI4sNEw%3BFbBrIgMdeJnf_w&vpsrc=6&mra=dme&mrsp=2&sz=19&via=1&t=m&z=19
<davmor2> gord: love google urls
<jutnux> Evening guys!
<davmor2> jutnux: evening
<gord> yeah my phone can get me there
<gord> ;)
<davmor2> gord: although the roads have changed slightly but it should still get you close :)
<Myrtti> ok, so how do I explain the fact that after reboot, without starting transmission before starting iftop, I get weird connections to all over the world according to iftop? to Brazil, Argentina, Sweden...
<bigcalm> mrben at his finest hour http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikedpeters/2683202679/
 * bigcalm gives up looking and puts dinner on
<Myrtti> basically I don't understand why and how this stuff can show up in my iftop
<gord> Myrtti, does iftop not let you see the process ID of the connection? nethogs will let you see those at least so you'll know what is transmitting data
<Myrtti> ok, nethogs makes more sense to my brain than iftop
<Myrtti> it was inbound connections because I had done a portforward to see if that helps with the torrent speeds
<Myrtti> (it didn't)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Wheres Chuck? - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/16/wheres-chuck/
<bigcalm> Where's my coffee?
<davmor2> bigcalm: a little further to the right
<bigcalm> -.-
<bigcalm> Have you been moving my oggcamp11 mug around?
<popey> \o/ oggcamp hilight
<davmor2> bigcalm: no I just saw where you put it
<bigcalm> Ah, that highlight
<bigcalm> popey: why do you have marmite on highlight?
<KrisDouglas> Does anybody know if it is possible to show the transfer speed in Thunar?
<KrisDouglas> I have done some googling but the results all turned up with unanswered threads and old mailing lists
<popey> bigcalm: why not?
<davmor2> KrisDouglas: ask on #xubuntu or #xubuntu-devel
<bigcalm> popey: fair enough :)
<KrisDouglas> davmor2, I am not technically using xubuntu, I have just installed the DE :) (joke, thanks for the channels =] )
<bigcalm> I can't decide which fountain pen to take with me tomorrow :S
<bigcalm> Metal body with purple ink or plastic body with green ink?
<davmor2> KrisDouglas: being as they are the default xfce users they are more likely to know
<davmor2> bigcalm: green ink
<KrisDouglas> Okiedokes, I will ask, dave, thanks.
<bigcalm> Think it'll be the metal one as it's more likely to travel better
<KrisDouglas> what the hell happened to that
<KrisDouglas> Ok, I will ask. Thanks Dave. ***
<bigcalm> davmor2: I like the green ink so much I'm tempted to drain my other fountain pen and have it in both
<KrisDouglas> I need to go to bed.
<Darael> bigcalm: Metal body and purple ink are both advantages in my book.
<Darael> As long as the purple is closer to blue than pink, at any rate.
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah but if we are in the green house again we know what happen to your purple ink in sunlight
<bigcalm> davmor2: the purple ink faded over many weeks of being in the sun light :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: :D
<bigcalm> Metal with purple: http://yfrog.com/h346vyfj
<bigcalm> Plastic with green: https://plus.google.com/photos/113834766641843352499/albums/5675159506009955505
<davmor2> bigcalm: apparently you'll need the purple as you can't draw a big smiley face in the green ink judging by the text in the picture :P
<popey> do they do orange as well as purple?
<davmor2> popey: hahaha
<popey> âº
<davmor2> \u263a
<MartijnVdS> âº
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: ctrl+shift+u 263a ;)
<MartijnVdS> â»
<popey> ooo I like that one too
<MartijnVdS> popey: 263b :)
<popey> â»
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I was figuring out it I could use python to figure out the code the answer is yes,  sadly however that means I'm understanding python more
<MartijnVdS> but isn't there a separate block for smileys now in Unicode :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: understanding more python is good.
<hamitron> just don't let it tighten its grip on you, or you shall learn nothing else
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: No it means the world is doomed, dooooomed I tell you
<hamitron> ;/
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I liked Doom, back in the 90s
<Myrtti> serious candy love: a friend sent me pineapple lumps from New Zealand - omg â¥
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Doom is different to Doomed ;)
<davmor2> Myrtti: are those like pinapple cubes?
<Myrtti> davmor2: chocolate covered pieces of heaven that go funny after keeping them in a fridge - they are like softer ice cubes after that
 * gord can't wait for his next candy japan delivery
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Professor Slughorn's favourite crystallised pineapple?
<gord> though last time i go red bean candy... some people love it, but to me it tastes like potato candy
<MartijnVdS> Time for foods
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: I wouldn't know
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: No Harry Potter reader?
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: I've read some of them once several years ago
<Laney> i don't get this meme
<Laney> who is chuck :(
<MartijnVdS> Laney: Chuck? Meme?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: Chuck Testa?
<Laney> planet.
<MartijnVdS> Laney: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/nope-chuck-testa ?
<Laney> i don't know who that is
<MartijnVdS> I don't know either
<Laney> could be that person i suppose
<MartijnVdS> very probably
<popey> Laney: he's a guy who works for canonical
<Laney> ah
<AlanBell> evening all
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you in London #?
<AlanBell> on a train in waterloo about to leave
<czajkowski> ahhh
<czajkowski> :)
<AlanBell> how are you?
<czajkowski> ntb
<czajkowski> productive day ?
<AlanBell> rather intense!
<czajkowski> in a good or bad way?
<AlanBell> good
<AlanBell> what are people up to this evening?
<AlanBell> and have you all signed up for the happy hour/christmas dinner?
<Laney> possibly going to see "the future"
<czajkowski> AlanBell: curled up in bed reading
<MartijnVdS> listening to some good music
<Laney> which is a film narrated by a cat
<danfish> AlanBell: happy hour, of course, meal, no pass :(
<AlanBell> just got an email from the place, can't expand the booking but 9 is OK
 * AlanBell wonders if czajkowski and filace will come to dinner
<danfish> may have to put on a disguise in Surbiton, in case my patients see me in a pub
<AlanBell> is that bad?
<AlanBell> will they ask you to have a look at bits of them?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: consdiering the courses danfish goes on I'd hope not
<czajkowski> AlanBell: nope fraid not for the meal
<danfish> hah - I really hope not, but will bring rubber gloves just in cases
<MartijnVdS> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15739984
<TheAshMan> Hi, I have a problem where the login screen doesn't start. after boot
<TheAshMan> I've tried logging in to recovery mode and running unity --reset, but I got an error saying no display variable set
<TheAshMan> Can I fix this from a live CD?
<AlanBell> TheAshMan: THE LOGIN SCREEN IS LIGHTDM, NOT UNITY
 * MartijnVdS takes away AlanBell's caps lock key
<sadsun> I think TheAshMan means GRUB
<TheAshMan> Nope, don't mean grub. I do mean lightdm. My bad.
<AlanBell> sorry, there wasorry, didn't mean to be shouty, I lost signal for several minutes and then it all came back
<AlanBell> laggiest mobile connection evar
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: but then he can't turn it off!
<danfish> is plymouth now the default? (can't run oneiric on this laptop due to a kernel prob - running debian)
<popey> yes
 * danfish must really sort out this laptop
<jutnux> I have purchased my Father's christmas present: http://r.jutnux.co.uk/tYzP5f
<hamitron> hehe
<czajkowski> I've one last xmas pressie to get
<czajkowski> and it's the one that's gonna drive me batty
<jutnux> What is it? czajkowski ?
<bigcalm> A bat
<czajkowski> I've no idea
<bigcalm> A case of rum cask Innis & Gunn for me?
<jutnux> Haha.
 * bigcalm sups his ale loveingly
<jutnux> Water is the way forward, young padawan.
<bigcalm> -.-
<jutnux> Well
<jutnux> You're older than me so.. failure there.
<jutnux> ;)
<bigcalm> Them to their own :)
<bigcalm> I'm guessing that you are less than 18 (or 21 if you are in the US)
<jutnux> Yes. Are you referring to alcohol?
<bigcalm> Indeed
<jutnux> You obviously don't know the youth around me.
<jutnux> Drinking, parties every weekend, drugs, more drugs, more partying.
<jutnux> Not that I drink, do drugs or party so extremely I end up in hospital like most (:
<czajkowski> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/896  for the movmber tha's in it
<jutnux> czajkowski, I grew mine over the weekend and it looked horrible. It had to be killed unfortunately.
<jutnux> So what do you all think about SOPA?
 * AlanBell hopes it is just an american problem
 * czajkowski had to write an article on it today
<AlanBell> or I hope it gets chucked out so it doesn't come over here
<AlanBell> great firewall of America
<MartijnVdS> I stopped caring about politics a long time ago. Not much changes in the end anyway.
<AlanBell> land of the free
 * AlanBell arrives in Farnham
<jutnux> czajkowski, Where is such article?
<jutnux> And yes, if it comes here there will be protests so I doubt it'll change much.
<jutnux> Just result in more people using Ubuntu ;)
<czajkowski> jutnux: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/czajkowski/H-onlineArticles  I put all my stuff on here
<czajkowski> hmmm
<jutnux> ALl of the big companies are joining in.
<jutnux> The US will end up like China.
<czajkowski> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Mozilla-censors-itself-as-part-of-American-Censorship-Day-1379903.html
<jutnux> If this happens
<jutnux> The internet is over
<jutnux> Shit
<jutnux> It was today
<jpds> jutnux: Righto.
<jutnux> jpds, I didn't mean literally over but.
<jutnux> Pretty much breeching the first amendment if they stop free speech.
<Barbarian> wouldn't be the biggest shock, coming from america
<bigcalm> !language | jutnux
<lubotu3`> jutnux: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<Barbarian> All hail the corporatocracy
<jutnux> Sorry bigcalm ;)
<jutnux> I hope it never comes here.
<jutnux> I think I read about one in Europe.
<bigcalm> czajkowski: If I were to take part in movember, I think I would find myself single for a month
<czajkowski> heh
<jutnux> Worth it though isn't it bigcalm? ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: jutnux If you have Windows (or a patent infringing decoder) you could watch the Hearing on SOPA here: http://judiciary.house.gov/
<bigcalm> Hayley does not like facial hair below the eyes
<MartijnVdS> tell her it's manly.
<czajkowski> bigcalm: hehe I've done everyone and anything to get it grown no such luck
<marsilainen> maybe she should get a shave then
<jutnux> TheOpenSourcerer, Can#t get on. How's it going so far?
<bigcalm> rimshot.popey.com
<TheOpenSourcerer> I do not have Windows or a patent infringing codec.
<bigcalm> That depends if one chooses to recognise software patents or not
<marsilainen> I don't think you can choose which laws to recognise
<marsilainen> can I choose not to recognise the murder law?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Time for beer and BBC. Laterz all.
<jutnux> Adios amigo!
<bigcalm> Murder is a matter of morel point of view. Software patents are a farce
<MartijnVdS> EEK they changed the BBC guide page
<MartijnVdS> it's horizontal now
<Azelphur> got a friend with a neighbour with a printer that seems to be not working
<Azelphur> It's an MP210, it has about a week old ink cartridges in it, on it's single digit LED display it says E then 1 then 6, and repeats.
<Azelphur> any ideas? I tried reseating the cartridges but that didn't solve it :(
<gordonjcp> marsilainen: codecs can't infringe patents, because they are software and you cannot patent software
<marsilainen> I was not responding to that
<Azelphur> it's extra fun because the manual makes no mention of error codes
<marsilainen> I was responding to bigcalm's statement "That depends if one chooses to recognise software patents or not"
<marsilainen> gordonjcp: though to be honest I think your point is nothing more than semantic: you can patent ideas, including algorithms, which software then implements
<marsilainen> that's the essence of what a "software patent" is
<Barbarian> Patenting math is insane. Thats what a software patent is.
<gordonjcp> marsilainen: there is actually quite a lot to getting a valid patent
<Darael> But that's just it:  Look at what the patent system was developed for, and what the requirements for a patent are /supposed/ to be, and one can easily see that patents are intended for use on implementations.
<gordonjcp> marsilainen: and it boils down to in most of the world you *cannot* patent software
<marsilainen> gordonjcp: I never said that there was not
<gordonjcp> and you'd even struggle to patent the ideas behind the software
<gordonjcp> I say this as someone who holds a couple of patents for hardware
<marsilainen> nor have I said that I agree with software patents
<marsilainen> I have no idea what point you are trying to make
<marsilainen> the fact is that in the US at least there are thousands of patents being used to protect algorithms used in software
<Darael> Unfortunately, getting /hardware/ patents that are so vaguely-worded that they are clearly designed to cover any idea that someone else eventually comes up with seems to be possible - cf that Apple patent on 3d display without glasses (I forget the patent number, or I'd provide a reference.  I'll see if I can dig it out)
<gordonjcp> marsilainen: right, but the US is irrelevant
<marsilainen> gordonjcp: well, irrelevant in what context?
<gordonjcp> marsilainen: it's *one* country, with backward-looking laws
<AlanBell> marsilainen: in the #ubuntu-uk context, it is a different jurisdiction
<AlanBell> they do have extra-jurisdictional influence
<marsilainen> quite
<gordonjcp> marsilainen: if the USA decided that you had to sing nursery rhymes for ten minutes before firefox would start, would Ubuntu remove firefox or make a singstar-type game?
<gordonjcp> of course not
<Barbarian> The US like to think they run the world. And they try and enforce that way.
<gordonjcp> we run into this problem on amateur radio mailing lists all the time
<gordonjcp> "well you can't use that mode because the FCC says you can't use more than 300bps on the HF bands"
<gordonjcp> *and*?
<gordonjcp> is there a reason why I should care about the FCC's regressive thinking?
<marsilainen> gordonjcp: so you suggest that Ubuntu ignores all US software patents?
<ali1234> i do
<marsilainen> hah
<ali1234> actually i think they should go one step further and include as much "patented" software as possible
<Hackbinary> hello
<ali1234> even if it is no use to anyone
<Darael> It may not be strictly gramatically correct (the expansion of USA is plural, after all), but I would argue that in the context of what Barbarian said, the pronoun should be "it", to differentiate the attitude of the nation from that of its people.  The /nation/ is the thing with the attitude, not (or not universally) its citizens.
<gordonjcp> marsilainen: yes
<gordonjcp> the US is not relevant to 99% of Ubuntu users
<jutnux> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/16/microsoft_fight_google_cloud_defections/
<jutnux> Laughing so hard.
<Barbarian> Darael, I 100% meant the government, not the people.
<marsilainen> gordonjcp: prove that statistic
<marsilainen> I bet more than 1% of ubuntu users are in the US
<Darael> Barbarian: I was reasonably sure that was the case.  But I think it's useful to make the distinction explicit.
<gordonjcp> marsilainen: maybe, but still some vanishingly small proportion
<gordonjcp> they probably don't even have computers in most of the US, they're against "God's Will" or something
<marsilainen> ...
<gordonjcp> the taliban confiscate them, no doubt
<marsilainen> ok, now you're being silly
<bigcalm> Hehe
<marsilainen> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=685241
<gordonjcp> marsilainen: long story short, why should I be inconvenienced to keep a bunch of butthurt crazy religious fundamentalists happy?
<marsilainen> oh look, more users in north america than anywhere else
<Barbarian> jutnux, nice link :D
<bigcalm> AlanBell: maybe this is the point of having regional ISOs :)
 * gordonjcp -> home
<gordonjcp> brb in half an hour
<jutnux> Barbarian, indeed. Microshaft are clearly worried. They even made a video comparing Office 2010 to OO.org
<Barbarian> I do believe we might be privileged enough to witness the fall of micro$loth within this decade.
<Barbarian> I don't think I have anything hard to back that up, but it's a feeling.
<bigcalm> Barbarian: and 2012 will be the year of the Linux Desktop
<Azelphur> Barbarian: it's pretty obvious that microsoft won't 'fall' what I think will happen though, is that things like smartphones will take over and microsoft will no longer have a monopoly :)
<Barbarian> Azelphur, I didn't mean disappear into the abyss, I meant fall as in no longer able to bully and litigate their way to maintaining their monopoly
<Azelphur> indeed :p
<Azelphur> competition between the OS's will encourage innovation and make people write cross platform code, which is the best for everyone, hopefully that'll happen. :D
<Barbarian> I do wonder if any non-linux non-windows OS will come into the limelight. Is BSD a different base, or is that also linux?
<Azelphur> it's different
<shauno> *cough*mac*cough*
<Barbarian> mac = linux
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Wheres Chuck 2 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/16/wheres-chuck-2/
<Azelphur> mac is BSD
<Barbarian> wut?
<Darael> Barbarian: OSX is BSD, and BSD and Linux are both *nix.
<Azelphur> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X "Mac OS X is based upon theÂ Mach kernel.[13]Â Certain parts fromÂ FreeBSD's andÂ NetBSD's implementation ofÂ UnixÂ were incorporated inNeXTSTEP, the core of Mac OS X."
<Barbarian> "In a Netcraft survey published 1 March 2011, the top three most reliable Web hosting company sites for the month of February 2011 (the most recent month for which figures are available as of March 2011) were all found to be running FreeBSD on their servers."
<Barbarian> I had no idea!
<shauno> I have to admit, I don't put much faith in netcraft anymore
<Barbarian> shauno, Any reason?
<shauno> they're still stuck on a very 90s view of how these things work.  most notable sites are applications servers sat behind load balancers.  So the OS you see is the loadbalancer's, and the uptime (do they still chart those?) is almost complete fiction because you're round-robined off multiple machines
<Barbarian> I see
<shauno> that's how you get crazy headlines about microsoft running linux on their servers.  because they pulled assets off an akamai loadbalancer, not msft's network
<Barbarian> Huh. Really? I thought microsoft really did run linux :P
<shauno> they did run freebsd for a long time.  hotmail was on freebsd for a *long time* after they acquired it
<DJones> Evening all
<Barbarian> o/
<Barbarian> How goes it?
<DJones> Not bad, just having a break from minecraft
<DJones> How about you
<Barbarian> pretty good
<Barbarian> presentation went really well :D
<DJones> Thats good
<gordonjcp> that's actually a really tiring and annoying drive
<jutnux> Someone needs to invent a cure for the Cold
<jutnux> Even though it's semi-impossible.
<j0nr> \wg 14
<dwatkins> what if it turns us all into zombies, though?
<Barbarian> Nobody on #ubuntu seems to know. Anyone got any idea what would cause ubuntu 11.10 64bit to recieve on input the sounds the computer is making instead of the microphone?
<jutnux> Incorrect sound choice?
<jutnux> Only thing I can think of
<Barbarian> If you mean the almamixer CLI interface thing, not that, tried it
<Barbarian> *alsa
<dwatkins> Barbarian: are you using PulseAudio? Have you looked at padevchooser?
<Barbarian> dwatkins, Never heard of it, reading about it now
<dwatkins> worth checking, iirc
<jutnux> https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_the_internet_d/
<jutnux> Gogogogo.
<Barbarian> dwatkins, It doesnt want to ./configure :(
<dwatkins> Barbarian: you shouldn't need to compile it - I believe it's in the repos
<Barbarian> "Package padevchooser is not availuable, but is referenced"
<dwatkins> What give you that, apt-get install padevchooser? I assume you've run apt-get update and apt-get upgrade recently.
<Barbarian> yes, yes and yes.
<dwatkins> What release of Ubuntu?
<Myrtti> ahhahahahahahahha
<Barbarian> 11.10 64 bit
<Myrtti> I just noticed the alt text on sabdfl's Movember blog entry
<Myrtti> cracked me up
<Barbarian> i'm going up to development version of ubuntu-sound, seeing if that makes a difference
<mattt> evening!
<Barbarian> "failed to fetch ubuntu-audio-dev" RAGE
<czajkowski> aquarius: find who you were looking for ?
<Azelphur> how do I pipe the output of a command into tar?
<Azelphur> I want to run a mysqldump and tar it as it goes
<deej1976> Azelphur: mysqldump -h host -p -u userid database | tar cvf mysql-bkup.tar -
<Azelphur> ty :D
<deej1976> Azelphur: might work :D
<Azelphur> echo "Hello" | tar cvf mysql-bkup.tar - # doesn't seem to work, so I'm gonna assume no
<Azelphur> it says -: cannot stat: no such file or directory
<deej1976> Azelphur: mysqldump < mysqldump options> | gzip > outputfile.sql.gz
<Azelphur> deej1976: ah, have to use gzip for it tar can't do it
<Azelphur> haha, same time
<deej1976> Azelphur: www.ducea.com ?
<Azelphur> what about it?
<deej1976> That's where I found it
<Azelphur> ah cool :)
<Azelphur> I found it on stack overflow
<deej1976> 3rd one down on my gogle search
<Azelphur> hmm, here's an interesting bash question :p
<Azelphur> I'm running mysqldump ... | gzip blah.gz, I want to ionice both the gzip and mysqldump, how do I do it?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-17
<marsilainen> Azelphur: would you not just run ionice on both:  ionice mysqldump ... | ionice gzip blah.gz
<Azelphur> perhaps :P
<Azelphur> this is funny, I've got someone on my irc channel atm telling me they can brute force the password on my server
<Azelphur> they started off saying that I had root login enabled, I pointed out I'm running Ubuntu server and the root account has no password
<Azelphur> now he's saying that he can brute force the username, and the password haha
<marsilainen> well he can
<marsilainen> given enough time
<Azelphur> yea, a few hundred years and a botnet with every single computer on the planet in it :P
<Azelphur> and somehow bypassing the laws of physics and making my server have more than a 100mbit connection
<marsilainen> is your password: ruhplezA ?
<Azelphur> no, I use highly secure very long passwords.
<marsilainen> oh, ok
<marsilainen> is there a way to turn on auto-raise in unity?
<marsilainen> I would like focus-follows-mouse and auto-raise
<ubuntubhoy> 3D ?
<marsilainen> no thanks
<marsilainen> just focus-follows-mouse and auto-raise would be sufficient
<Azelphur> marsilainen: haha, just made him look stupid :D
<Azelphur> (00:31:17) Azelphur: given my servers 100mbit connection, assuming no protocol overhead whatsoever, 6 bytes per password attempt, you'd be able to check around 2097152 passwords a second, it would take you 273238944967337074 years to guess my 6 character password
<marsilainen> you just told him that it's 6 characters - you shouldn't give away that sort of info
<marsilainen> also, you said that you use "highly secure very long passwords" <-- 6 characters != very long
<Azelphur> marsilainen: next line, (00:31:48) Azelphur: My password is much longer than 6 characters, and you don't know the username :)
<marsilainen> aha
<ubuntubhoy> marsilainen, I mean Unity 3D or 2D ?
<ubuntubhoy> not 3D effects
<marsilainen> ubuntubhoy: oh, I see - well whatever the default is in oneiric - I assume 2D?
<marsilainen> how do I tell?
<ubuntubhoy> nah, its 3D
<marsilainen> nothing looks 3d
<marsilainen> oh
<marsilainen> is that good or bad?
<ubuntubhoy> good
<marsilainen> ok
<marsilainen> so how do I do the above?
<ubuntubhoy> you need to install compiz config settings manager
<marsilainen> ah, ok
<ubuntubhoy> or CCSM as its known
<ubuntubhoy> from there you can set focus settings
<marsilainen> ok, ta
<ubuntubhoy> the dodge to focus effect if its still there is nice
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] 12.04 Ubuntu Developer Summit Proceedings - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/17/12-04-ubuntu-developer-summit-proceedings/
<czajkowski> Aloha
<AlanBell> morning
<bigcalm> Good morning!
<bigcalm> This is far too early for any sane person to be awake
<bigcalm> And off to Wolverhampton I trot. Toodles :)
<MartijnVdS> oodles of toodles?
<popey> Morning
<popey> i have a thunderbird question...
<popey> I have mine setup to connect to an imap server
<popey> i have mail sorted on the server into folders, and i can subscribe to those folders in thunderbird
<popey> but thunderbird doesnt tell me that there is new mail in those folders till I click on them
<popey> this seems sub-optimal
<popey> is there any way to change this?
<hoover> good morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> one account? Maultiple folders?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Check under File->Subscribe that all folders (for each account are checked).
<popey> they are
<TheOpenSourcerer> How do they get into the folders on the server?
<popey> procmail stuff
<TheOpenSourcerer> What is the imap server?
<popey> no idea, its not mine
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think it "should" work.
<popey> but teh procmail script moves mails
<popey> and when I click a folder the number of unread goes up and loads of mail appears
<TheOpenSourcerer> Might be incomplete imap support on the server?
 * popey ssh's to the mail server to find out
<TheOpenSourcerer> Currently I use TB Filters to move emails to folders. Was going to play with imapfilter or sieve shortly to do it on the server so will be able to compare results
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have you checked bugzilla?
<popey> dovecot 1:1.2.9-1ubuntu6.5
<popey> thats the server
<popey> i have no control over the server though
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sure.
<popey> I use a script which detects that mail is from a list and filters it for me, someone else wrote it
<popey> it creates folders if tehy dont exist for new mailing lists
<popey> and emails me when new folders are created, which is handy
<popey> i dont want to filter locally, i have two computers, dont want to have to set them both up
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed. That's why I was interested in imapfilter and sieve for the same reason.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Our mail server (Zentyal) supports sieve.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And I have a Sieve plugin for TB. But it's a bit poo.
<TheOpenSourcerer> sieve that is.
<TheOpenSourcerer> imapfilter looks more interesting.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I assume that on your "account settings" for the server you have check for mail on startup and check for new messages every x minutes set
<TheOpenSourcerer> Also check the Synchronisation and Storage settings section.
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> howdy AlanBell
<DJones> Morning
<MartijnVdS> 255 and Pac-Man - Numberphile - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umYvFdU54Po
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<JamesTait> "What a beautiful day, hey hey, what a beautiful day!" Good morning all! :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings.
 * TheOpenSourcerer has helped popey this morning. I thought that was impossible.
<bigcalm_lappy> 2nd good morning peeps :)
<popey> lol
<brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer: did you wash your hands afterwards?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i never really used thunderbird in anger
<Daviey> Once you have 'helped' popey, you always end up with those difficult moments where you can't look eachother in the face the same.  And the difficult lift conversations.
 * BigRedS uses it angrily all the time
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm_lappy> Haha, what have I walked in on?
<bigcalm_lappy> gord: where are you?
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<selinuxium> 'lo   o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Nexus is now on sale.
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-57326558-264/android-4.0-arrives-as-galaxy-nexus-goes-on-sale/
<AlanBell> is that the one you want or are you going to wait for something bigger?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno. Still totally undecided
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Note or Nexus, Nexus or Note???
<czajkowski> AlanBell: do not drop it or lose it :)
<AlanBell> I have not lost my S2
<czajkowski> davmor2: come back after 6 please
<AlanBell> did drop it a little bit, but it is OK
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Now has his phone chained to his third limb.
<TheOpenSourcerer> err fith
<AlanBell> it is ringing
<bigcalm_lappy> Just got a call from somebody's number that isn't in my contacts list. I had no idea who it was but they knew me. Wrong number in any case and they hung up. I am so confused
<bigcalm_lappy> davmor2: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/sets/72157606644018228/
 * oimon notices that oblivion is on offer in steam today, < Â£4
<oimon> i don't have a good enough graphics card to play it :(
<popey> bigcalm_lappy: disapointed you didnt do a hitler tasche
<bigcalm_lappy> popey: I have a scar in the middle of my upper lip that stops hair from growing there
<oimon> anyone know about the flossie conference?
<oimon> maybe czajkowski?
<bigcalm_lappy> oimon: is that a dentist convention?
<AlanBell> oimon: bastubis is organising it
<czajkowski> .c
<oimon> it's being held in my offices/building :D
<czajkowski> not sure of the dates
<oimon> in 2012
<oimon> i think i'm getting roped in to helping
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: after 6
<AlanBell> oimon: in CMU?
<oimon> AlanBell: QMUL
<AlanBell> thats what I meant to type :)
<CaMason> Morning all. Trying to upgrade to 11.10 from 11.04. Needs 1.5GB on / which I don't have. I do, however, have 10GB on /home. How could I work around this to upgrade?
<popey> reinstall over the top rather than upgrade?
<BigRedS> CaMason: what're your partitions like? Just a / and a /home?
<CaMason> BigRedS, precisely that
<CaMason> old Eee 901 netbook. 2 SSDs, one 4GB, one 16GB. 16GB is slower though
<Laney> mount some stuff inside /home
<Laney> like /var/cache/apt
<CaMason> that cache is pretty empty actually
<popey> it will be
<CaMason> the big areas are places like /var/lib
<popey> it will download during the upgrade
<CaMason> dpes the upgrade download to /var/cache/apt ?
<popey> yes
<popey> thats where the debs go
<CaMason> ok. Move that to /home and symlink it?
<popey> could do
<popey> I have done that in the past
<CaMason> I have some /usr/local/ stuff set up that way
<popey> but I would still expect you would run out on the first SSD
<CaMason> 494MB free on /
<Laney> tight
<popey> i reinstalled mine with / on the 16GB SSD and swap on the 4GB
<popey> no home partition
 * BigRedS mumbles about swap files
<BigRedS> :)
<gord> home partitions are so 2009
<Laney> my headphones are shredding themselves :(
<CaMason> but the 16GB ssd is slow as..
<popey> its not exactly bleeding edge netbook these days to be fiar
<popey> *fair
<popey> although both my kids have that model
<popey> running 11.04
<CaMason> no, it isn't - that's why I'd rather not make it slower than it is :)
<popey> heh
<popey> crunchbang it is then âº
<popey> I have crunchbang on an Intel Classmate, flies along
<CaMason> I'm still amazed at it though with Ubuntu running on it..
<popey> and the classmate is even slower than the 901
<dogmatic69> if you specify 0.0.0.0/0 as the ip adders that means everything?
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: yeah
<dogmatic69> cool
<CaMason> I used it to demo a new project infront of some very big companies in the security industry
<dogmatic69> what would be any internal address?
<CaMason> We have 5 companies demonstrating, all connecting into one central machine (this 901)
<CaMason> good talking point
<CaMason> apart from the CTOs that came over and said "Ahh, I see you're running a Mac"
<bigcalm_lappy> Looks like davmor2 is 'busy' ;)
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: how are you defining 'internal'?
<BigRedS> and what is it you're configuring?
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: nearly as busy as you :P
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: private ip? not sure the terms to use. i want to specify ssh connections to a server on aws only from within aws
<BigRedS> what are you specifying thsi to?
<dogmatic69> so i have 10 servers on aws, one can only be connected from static office ip, other 9 only from the other server
<BigRedS> do you mean teh 10.x.x.x addresses you get on amazon?
<dogmatic69> in the firewall / security group settings
<dogmatic69> ye
<BigRedS> I thought in Amazon, by default things in the same sec group can do anything to each other
<CaMason> My 901 got run over too, btw
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: maybe...
<CaMason> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/136067/eee/DSC00664.JPG http://dl.dropbox.com/u/136067/eee/DSC00669.JPG
<BigRedS> but otherwise you 'just' need the cidr notation for the subnet amazon's giving yoyu
<BigRedS> which will be really vague
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: ill investigate that some more
<BigRedS> with Amazon, from my limited experience, you basically need to abandon the idea of doing things right, and instead find out how Amazon wants you to do it
<popey> anyone know of a good ebay sniping tool for linux?
<dogmatic69> sniping?
<CaMason> what sort of files go into /usr/share ?
<gordonjcp> CaMason: documentation, graphics, sound files
<CaMason> hm ok. Perhaps that's a candidate to be moved to sdb
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: yeah, cheating at ebay
<CaMason> 860MB at the moment
<BigRedS> automatic bid-placers that get it in the last small fraction of a second
 * dogmatic69 is a champ at that
<dogmatic69> dont need a tool :D
<dogmatic69> CaMason: http://i.imgur.com/Tcst1.jpg
<CaMason> dogmatic69, nice one
<dogmatic69> reddit ftw
<dogmatic69> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/mdxrn/linux_file_structure_image_probably_a_repost_but/
<CaMason> /saved
<popey> thats changing soon âº
<davmor2> hey gord fancy seeing you here :D
<popey> if fedora do it, I suspect we will too
<CaMason> what is?
<dogmatic69> popey: no more saving files all over the place?
<czajkowski> popey: TheOpenSourcerer AlanBell make any head way on a co working space ?
<popey> moving binaries so we don't have /usr/bin /usr/sbin /sbin/
<BigRedS> it hardly matters given how few maintainers stick to it
<bigcalm_lappy> Of course it would have to be while I'm away from the office that Thunderbird decides to download 20k emails
<CaMason> popey, rationale?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I haven't looked into it much yet
<CaMason> also, is `cp -R` a safe way to copy a large folder + subfolders?
<popey> CaMason: less confusion
<popey> CaMason: i use Rvp
<BigRedS> CaMason: cp -a is better
<BigRedS> preserves timestamps, permissions and owners
<AlanBell> CaMason: is there activity going on in the folder as you copy it?
<CaMason> AlanBell, no
<AlanBell> in that case cp should be fine
<BigRedS> you may as well mv, if the point is to clear space?
<CaMason> it is... and yes, you're right. herp derp.
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: so if you do sudo cp -a .... it will not make everything root?
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: nope, it'll end up owned by the same user or uid as before
<dogmatic69> omg
<dogmatic69> and that does . files?
<BigRedS> er, I'm not sure actually
<BigRedS> I imagine so, though
<BigRedS> a '*' doesn't match dotfiles, but recursively acting on a directory that contains some really has no excuse not to
<CaMason> This was my ethernet port on my 901 after a car said hello to it: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/136067/eee/DSC00671.JPG
<CaMason> still works!
<popey> haha
<Laney> ooo, my copy of TLPI is out for delivery
<gordonjcp> CaMason: what did you do to it?
<CaMason> erm..
<CaMason> I left it ontop of a car. Got a call from the police 2 hours later
<CaMason> "Someone's found your bag"
<CaMason> ports crushed, plus broken screen. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/136067/eee/DSC00664.JPG
<bigcalm_lappy1> Who do I blame for the dodgy wifi at the Lighthouse?
 * bigcalm_lappy1 blames davmor2 because he's closest
 * AlanBell wonders whether to kick bigcalm_lappy2 to ##fix-your-connection
<BigRedS> they're multiplying!
<bigcalm_lappy> I was sorting out grouped nicks
<bigcalm_lappy> Will stop now
<AlanBell> its fine :)
<BigRedS> oh, actually, no that's just addition really, isn't it
<gordonjcp> CaMason: oops
<gordonjcp> CaMason: oh well, fixable I suppose
<CaMason> gordonjcp, yup. Works fine 2 years later
<gordonjcp> easy enough to get a screen and change the socket
<CaMason> which I did
<CaMason> wasn't very expesive either
<gord> some of us have awesome servers running znc ;)
<hoover> hey biggie
<bigcalm_lappy> Howdy hoovie
<hoover> hung over...
<hoover> yourself?
<bigcalm_lappy> Tired and clock watching. Where I am today do a great burger
<bigcalm_lappy> Yes, I will be having the very garlicy garlic bread
<bigcalm_lappy> Usually it's an advantage of working from home - you don't have to worry about strong breath after lunch
<bigcalm_lappy> Today I have 3 people to amuse with some garlic bread :D
<deej1976> Dentist + Cheese and Onion crisps :D
<dogmatic69> anyone run other distros?
<popey> dentist + monster munch
<popey> dogmatic69: i use ubuntu on everything except an imac and an intel classmate
<oimon> guys, if i have a 280W PSU and want to buy a extneral gfx card to play games, am i screwed, or is there a cheap card that i can get that won't killl my PSU?
<dogmatic69> well you work for canonical...
<dogmatic69> would not expect anything else :P
<hoover> I never learn it seems ;-)
<bigcalm_lappy> hoover: celebrating something?
<gord> oimon, "external" graphics card?
<oimon> gord: i.e. not onboard one
<bigcalm_lappy> oimon: you won't get one that can play games nicely
<gord> oimon, i wouldn't ;) if you want games, onlive go for it :)
<oimon> bigcalm_lappy: i don't want the best experience in the world , but say i wanted to play oblivion..
<oimon> it's a few years old now
<oimon> hoping to get a budget card that might let me play those type of game
<daubers> oimon: Isn't that called a console these days :p
<popey> dogmatic69: same before I worked for canonical
<bigcalm_lappy> I've got an USB DVI graphics adaptor that just about works in Linux and will let you play Minecraft ok.
<oimon> i have a wii :-\
<oimon> is minecraft high spec?
<daubers> oimon: You can probable get a 360 for Â£150 these days
<oimon> looks like the dire straits video
<oimon> by budget i mean <30 quid :)
<oimon> oh you mean xbox
<daubers> heh :)
<oimon> i don't really have time to play too much, so it's not worth investing too much money..some people buy a whole new rig just to play one game :-\
<hoover> bigcalm_lappy: not exactly
<gord> oimon, i used to play oblivion on an nvidia 6600, you can get them dirt cheep
<hoover> damn dsl is all bouncy bouncy today
<hoover> cheers all
<oimon> gord, so a http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-GeForce-Silent-Profile-Bracket/dp/B003B03OTA/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321530098&sr=8-1-fkmr0 would be ok?
<gord> oimon, for oblivion, more than enough :)
<oimon> there's a lot of mis-info out there saying that it would be useless for that kind of game
<oimon> cheers
<oimon> i have one at work i can borrow for eval purposes
<popey> AlanBell / TheOpenSourcerer you going to the Digital Surrey thing in Egham next week?
<popey> just got the reminder, printed my ticket
<popey> I can't go to the xmas drinks, it's on a UUPC night
<dogmatic69> any recommendations for monitoring x number of servers (foss)
<popey> landscape :D
<popey> ok, not foss âº
<deej1976> dogmatic69: nagios
<dogmatic69> been playing with ganglia which seems pretty good, its just dated
<dogmatic69> deej1976: not foss
<dogmatic69> $2,246 USD is a long way from OS
<deej1976> http://www.nagios.org/download
<deej1976> The Open Source monitoring solutio
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Yes to DS Next week.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just been having an amusing time with my lovely wofe.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/wife
<TheOpenSourcerer> She spilt a cup of tea all over the window controls in her Merc A class. yesterday.
<TheOpenSourcerer> The windows open and close randomly - even with the key not in the ignition.
<MartijnVdS> cool
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have now dropped said car off at the Merc garage for investigation.
<gord> I do believe your car is haunted
<MartijnVdS> gord: nah it wasn't pumpkin juice or virgin blood -- it was tea
<bigcalm_lappy> I wonder when we'll break for lunch
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I used to have a similar problem in very rainy weather in a CitroÃ«n XM, because water would drip into the relays that controlled the sunroof
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: especially during the full moon?
 * popey has mushroom soup for lunch
<popey> I'm eating so much more healthily now I'm working from home
<MartijnVdS> not just more?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: no, just when it was raining, which in NW Scotland is quite frequently
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gah - why when I am in *ANY* app and I enter CTL+F to load the search tool, instead I get a small terminal window popping up? Where would the keypress be configured?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Happens in FF, Chrome, Gedit.
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: cured by cleaning out the sunroof tray drain tubes and clarting the relay bases with silicone
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: your window manager
<TheOpenSourcerer> etc...
<Daviey> popey: I often forget to eat when working from home :)
<gord> eating healthy lasts for a while, yesterday i had two bacon sarnies with nothing else
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I'm bad with stuff like that. "Ooh it's broken. Garage time."
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Dutch_proverbs#T ("Twee linkerhanden hebben
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: one of the reasons I drive relatively old cars is because they're very easy to fix
<Daviey> gord: Imagine my dilemma.. I have lots of bacon, but currently no bread.
<gordonjcp> Daviey: put the bacon between slices of bacon
<Daviey> Do i A) Go to the shop to buy some bread .. B) Wish i had done A
<Daviey> or C, as gordonjcp suggested.. yum
<popey> wooooot
<popey> just won an asus transformer on ebay :D
<popey> "won"
<DJones> In byobu, on the stats info at the bottom, I've got an "(R)" in blue and a "16!!" in red, what do they mean
<popey> R means restart
<MartijnVdS> popey: for Â£a_lot?
<popey> 16!! means you have 16 updates to do
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: on my work van, I can just about top up the screenwash (which I need to remember to do)
<popey> !! means security updates i think
<lubotu3`> popey: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<DJones> popey: Thanks, that explains it
<popey> MartijnVdS: ~380 GBP
<Daviey> popey: Can you win me one aswell please?
<daubers> and then when Daviey pays you, can you ship it to me please?
 * popey leaves negative feedback on ebay. it hasn't arrived yet, and I paid 5 minutes ago!
<popey> hmm, anyone using thunderbird on unity?
<popey> I have a number of unread mails = 1 in the unity launcher, but i have no unread mail
<popey> it doesnt seem to update the launcher icon
<gord> popey, thunderbird thinks you do somewhere
<czajkowski> http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/11/17/hp_canonical_ubuntu_cloud_top_dog/  hmm interesting
<gord> its annoying, you just have to find it
<popey> gord: pressing "n" reveals no new mail
<popey> it went to 1 when a mail arrived in a folder, i read that mail, now it's not gone down
<bigcalm_lappy> The mail notification icon will update eventually
<popey> it's been a few minutes
<popey> bah, lunchtime
<DJones> popey: I use thunderbird & it does seem to update, although last night it said I had 1 unread email when there were none in the inbox & 250+ in the junk mail folder
<oimon> thunderbird used to be great for me. then i upgraded :(
<bigcalm_lappy> *shiver*
 * oimon wants an asus transformer
<oimon> there's so much more i'd do with a tablet if it had a keyboard
<popey> \o/ chicken soup
<gord> oimon, you want a laptop
<davmor2> popey: what happened to the mushroom?
<DJones> Now we know AlanBell's chicken ended up
<popey> it had a long use by date so i decided to have chicken instead
<TheOpenSourcerer> (12:01:54) ***popey has mushroom soup for lunch
<oimon> gord, i want a laptop that i can unplug the screen and take to meetings/bed sans keyboard
<TheOpenSourcerer> Followed by Chicken Soup.
<popey> made some crutons too
<AlanBell> DJones: no, but it was alive last time I saw it
<popey> or 'cretins' as my dad calls them
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks popey's claims about healthy eating are unfounded.
<popey> hah
<popey> compared to what I did at last place...
 * AlanBell has curry for lunch
<AlanBell> not sure whether to try a bit of naga with it
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders what he will have.
<TheOpenSourcerer> GO ON AlanBell
<oimon> home made pot noodle
<TheOpenSourcerer> DO IT
<TheOpenSourcerer> Eat it whilst fresh!
<TheOpenSourcerer> You won't regret it. Honestly.
<AlanBell> I suspect I will
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nah.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gah
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> ok, so i got another couple of mails, read them, now launcher says I have 2 mails
 * AlanBell prepares curry, rice, naga, large drink of milk and defibbrilator
<Darael> AlanBell: I read "naga" as meaning snake.  That would be a bit odd, though, so what does it mean in this context?
<oimon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naga_Jolokia_pepper
<bigcalm_lappy> davmor2 has lost it. Somebody get him a burger, stat!
<oimon> should probably eat it on the bidet
<Darael> Ah.  A variety of chilli.
<Darael> Probably named in comparison to snakebite.
<Darael> Sounds fun.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Specifically AlanBell has a Bhut Jolokia (Dorset Naga).
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naga_Jolokia_pepper#Dorset_Naga
<cooldudeyeah> how does one calm down. I just want to learn physics, electronics, programming to the point where I don't go out and make friends :P
<cooldudeyeah> similar to an addicted 12 year old who loves video games
<shauno> throw in some AI classes, and hope that one day you'll be able to build your own friend?
<tugrik> surely throw in some AI classes, build a teacher?
<cooldudeyeah> lol
<cooldudeyeah> Might not wor
<cooldudeyeah> work*
<oimon> cooldudeyeah: how old are you?
<cooldudeyeah> You don't have to go to university to be an expert, right?
<cooldudeyeah> 19
<Darael> cooldudeyeah: Treat interpersonal relationships as training for if thou ever needest to reverse-engineer a complicated program given no information on it.
<cooldudeyeah> haha
<tugrik> Darael: spot on :)
<cooldudeyeah> I hate school though
<Darael> Well, that's what I'm doing in /theory/.  I'm useless at doing that in practice.
<cooldudeyeah> hated*
<DJones> cooldudeyeah: Its not so much calming down, its getting older & then realising you can't do everything :)
<cooldudeyeah> yeah :(
<tugrik> school is good for access to other people, resources, and seeing the formal way of doing things
<oimon> cooldudeyeah: channel the enthusiasm in to a job and you will probably be happy :)
<Darael> cooldudeyeah: I hated it too.  I'm hoping uni (which I start next October; I'm gap-yearing in India) will be better due to, eg, fewer people who don't really want to be there.
<cooldudeyeah> The thing is
<tugrik> and yes, you'll soon realise you can find things to learn faster than learning them... everything you learn will increase your desire to learn new things you don't have time to learn... this will make you sad and bitter
<tugrik> HTH
<tugrik> ;)
<Darael> Sad and bitter, or determined to defy apparent impossibility.
<Darael> 'Course, the latter won't last forever.
<Darael> Probably.
<Darael> We'll see.
<tugrik> heh, I flick between the two Darael :)
<cooldudeyeah> I love meeting people who are very smart in the area of science and programming and never got a formal education
<cooldudeyeah> for example, when you read a physics paper published in a journal and the author hasn't even got a background in physics
<CaMason> Has the ability to change DPI been removed by default on 11.10?
<Darael> CaMason: ISTR people complaining that Gnome3 didn't have that option anywhere in its config dialogs, and we /are/ basing on g3 now.
<CaMason> :(
<cooldudeyeah> has anyone here got a job in programming without a degree
<cooldudeyeah> ?
<CaMason> I employ someone who doesn't have a degree. PHP though
<CaMason> He's good, but can't pronounce 'integer' or 'indices' as he's only ever read it, not heard it.
<oimon> heh
<ali1234> how does he pronounce them?
<CaMason> integger and in-dice.
<oimon> cooldudeyeah: were your grades OK at school?
<cooldudeyeah> oimon average
<oimon> a-levels?
<cooldudeyeah> yes
<oimon> grades?
<cooldudeyeah> Cs
<cooldudeyeah> and a A in IT
<CaMason> also, where can I specfy the system-wide fixed-width font? Or is that also AWOL..
<cooldudeyeah> but lol IT in the UK is nothing tbh
<gord> gnome-tweak-tool
<CaMason> I got a B at A-level in IT, but I got 86% in my degree
<ali1234> afaict there's no such thing as a "job in programming" any more, unless you are willing to become self employed and undercut the outsourcing firms
<oimon> life is long. i still recommend people get degrees as it shows aptitude and commitment
<CaMason> A degree is very useful anyway..,.
<gord> there are lots of programming jobs
<gord> looots
<CaMason> 3 or 4 years with lots of free time
<MartijnVdS> looooooooooooots
<CaMason> over 9000
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: yes
<CaMason> Monospaced at 11pt is insanely spaced
<CaMason> 10pt or 12pt is fine
<ali1234> there are lots of jobs where you job is to manage three indian guys who don't even speak english let alone php
<cooldudeyeah> How about a perl programmer
<cooldudeyeah> :D
<cooldudeyeah> perl and python
<ali1234> if you have 20 years experience in perl there's plenty of jobs
<cooldudeyeah> lol
<cooldudeyeah> crap
<cooldudeyeah> :P
<cooldudeyeah> how about just creating a  github
<cooldudeyeah> and presenting it at the interview
<CaMason> I tasked the guys I hired with a task
<cooldudeyeah> oh yeah
<CaMason> a small Twitter-based app, PHP 5.3, using some specific patterns, and send me a git branch
<cooldudeyeah> how long do you give them to do it ?
<CaMason> as long as they wanted
<cooldudeyeah> days?
<cooldudeyeah> hours?
<CaMason> about a day
<CaMason> gave them some tricky UTF-8 tasks. They had to read up on it. No problem there - shows they can learn
<gord> actually no, C++, perl is for sysadmins mostly
<gord> php is something there is less jobs in for outsourcing
<oimon> cooldudeyeah: if you don't meet the requirements for a uni course and are keen, then you can do a foundation year too
<oimon> i wouldn't unnecessarily write off uni
<CaMason> Save a particular tweet, which was entity-ecoded UTF-8, in a binary column, then render the bytes as ISO-8859-1
<cooldudeyeah> ahhh good point
<ali1234> CaMason: you expected them to use design patterns for that?
<CaMason> not much - some simple dependency injection
<cooldudeyeah> what other areas do you assess them
<cooldudeyeah> ?
<cooldudeyeah> interview question, probably
<cooldudeyeah> anything else?
<CaMason> primarily, are they smart, and can they learn
<ali1234> i dunno if i dare ask what dependency injection is
<cooldudeyeah> attitude
<ali1234> it sounds like something a junkie would do
<CaMason> lol
<cooldudeyeah> would you allow them to show you what they have done
<cooldudeyeah> ...programming wise of coruse
<cooldudeyeah> course *
<CaMason> yes, I encouraged it
<CaMason> I don't care if people f*** things up, so long as they learn
<CaMason> It's more productive for us to take someone on who's not an expert and can learn, than someone who is very set in their ways
<cooldudeyeah> yeah I've already met some people like that
<CaMason> I had one dev who was very particular in his approach, and wouldn't use anything other than SVN
<CaMason> code was mostly procedural. He was great at algorithms, but wasn't suitable for the project at the time
<CaMason> certain architectural designs made his head implode
<oimon> probably had aspie tendencies
<oimon> people behind debian invterview with sadbfl: http://raphaelhertzog.com/2011/11/17/people-behind-debian-mark-shuttleworth-ubuntus-founder/
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I ate it
<TheOpenSourcerer> All of it
<AlanBell> I didn't eat the seeds, but ate all the flesh
<davmor2> AlanBell: Wuss
<BigRedS> anyone know how I tell Thunderbird to re-ask Gnome how it should be displaying dates?
<TheOpenSourcerer> The heat is "not" in the seeds. It is in the placenta: the bits that hold the seeds to the flesh.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And you are still alive AlanBell
<TheOpenSourcerer> SO that's OK then.
<AlanBell> I am somewhat alive
<TheOpenSourcerer> Was it warm then?
<AlanBell> sweating a bit
<czajkowski> hehe
<bigcalm_lappy> My goodness, this chocolate cake is dry
<oimon> microwave it for 10 secs?
<shauno> chocolate cake for lunch?  hang on, let me find my violin ..
 * TheOpenSourcerer just had a cheese sarny with chilli chutney* *(50 Chillies + 25 Cloves of Garlic, a few spices. Fried and liberally mined)
<bigcalm_lappy> Pudding
<bigcalm_lappy> Lunch was a very splendid beef burger
 * popey had _chicken_ soup and croutons
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/minced
<popey> and some noodles ;)
<popey> bigcalm_lappy: sleepy afternoon ?
<czajkowski> chicken sambo and noodle soup with a bag of fruit from tesco
<TheOpenSourcerer> The wife's tea accident has just cost Â£220
<bigcalm_lappy> popey: we'll see how much work I get done
<popey> ouch
<bigcalm_lappy> TheOpenSourcerer: ouch
<TheOpenSourcerer> No chrimbo pressies for her then ;-)
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: what was that spilt on then?
<czajkowski> tea accident ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Her A Class window controls
<czajkowski> aww
<AlanBell> oh dear
<czajkowski> at least dshe' ok
<DJones> Did the cup survive?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yep.
<DJones> I'm waiting to find out how much an engine rebuild is costing
<Laney> cars :(
<bigcalm_lappy> A good vessel for one's tea is as important as the tea itself
<popey> uhoh
<popey> my desktop looks like its going to explode
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741175/
<popey> http://imgur.com/WK3fl
<popey> had no swap enabled until monday
<popey> now amount of swap use is climbing
<DJones> Shut chrome down
<popey> but my precious tabs!
<DJones> Or just use one tab
 * popey kills a few
<dwatkins> sort by memory usage in top with 'M'
<dwatkins> but you knew that ;)
<oimon> is it me or is grub2 a lot harder to use than old grub ?
<oimon> i now struggle with dual boot etc
<popey> dwatkins: it is sorted by memory
<dwatkins> oh sorry popey
<DJones> oimon: Its not just you, seems a lot more complex
<shauno> I find grub2 easy enough; but the mass of scripts that autoproduce a config on ubuntu drive me scatty
<oimon> is there an easy way ? a gui perchance?
 * popey ticks "Reopen the pages that were opened last"
<oimon> i want to add a second drive running GameOS
<shauno> I find it easier to sit down and write a config from scratch, than to figure out how that bash soup works
<Myrtti> hohum
<Laney> spotify:track:73q3FpQVXWk5eSUnyo83E4 Laney's Pop Song Of The Dayâ¢
<dwatkins> What is it for those of us without Spotify pls, Laney?
<popey> N Sync
<popey> _really_ laney?
<Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZcmuKsyvzg&ob=av2e
<Laney> the video makes it better
<dwatkins> heh thanks for saving me from clicking, popey ;)
<Laney> :(
<Laney> i'll do better tomorrow
<czajkowski> Myrtti: know the feeling
<Myrtti> I think I'll just amuse myself by watching glee music videos
<czajkowski> Myrtti: or help me shop for xmas pressies for a geek :)
<oimon> how about an ubuntu mug warmer :)
<popey> Ubuntu beer
<gord> should of got the ubuntu travel mug thingy at uds, it looked pretty good
<popey> DJones: pc much better now I restarted chrome, âº
<gord> someone has a fancy autoreplace setup ;)
<popey> LOUD MUSIC O'CLOCK!
<Laney> home working is such fun, eh?
<popey> âº
<dogmatic69> popey: clock must be stuck, its been LOUD MUSIC O'CLOCK all day
<popey> dangerously close to recording a webcam video of me dancing
<popey> this would not be wise
<MartijnVdS> More alcohol!
<popey> spotify:track:2B2tDWOUrtosv1VsQTgq1q
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: don't encourage him
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: why not?
<popey> Laney: my cheesy music for today âº
<Laney> we should make a #ubuntu-uk playlist
<dogmatic69> g+ full of videos of popey dancing :S
<Laney> music to home work by
<MartijnVdS> popey: Moves like Jagger? Really?
<popey> I know! :D
<MartijnVdS> popey: something to fix that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZrdwXjzKOY
<Laney> i have the best songs on my profile
<Laney> spotify:user:laney
 * Laney thinks user:popey might not be popey
<popey> popeydc
<popey> can you see my playlists? â¨
<popey> hehe, they all have 'publish' ticked
<Laney> i have clares list on
<Laney> kylie \o\ |o| \o/ |o| /o/
<popey> heh
 * popey is listening to http://open.spotify.com/track/47CvNTibRzvUdDJoYYMsM7 
<Laney> huh
<Laney> i wonder when spotify started working with firefox
<MartijnVdS> popey: spotify:track:2fOeQSDDVJmHufYSh8dbE3
<Laney> ooh yeah grandaddy, good idea
<gord> i'm listening to whatever davmor2 is currently humming
<MartijnVdS> gord: God Save the Queen?
<popey> MartijnVdS: thats nice
<davmor2> I'm descending from outta space to find another race.......
<MartijnVdS> popey: Zorg's entire album is great (La Vie PrivÃ©e de Zorg)
<MartijnVdS> popey: he is (was?) on the same label as Lemongrass :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: that's only appropriate when sung by Freddie on video ;)
<bigcalm_lappy> I think it might be nap time
<bigcalm_lappy> Or time for another coffee
<bigcalm_lappy> Which will make me more productive?
<bigcalm_lappy> And who's round is it?
<davmor2> gords
<bigcalm_lappy> o/
<AlanBell> the naga has worn off now
<oimon> woo i just found a gnome-integration addon for thunderbird :D
<oimon> i get libnotify working again for new emails
<BigRedS> Well, that was a dumb bug
<BigRedS> I was comparing backed-up file size with local file mtime :/
<selinuxium> lol
<selinuxium>  /me needs to remember which window is in focus...
 * selinuxium also needs to remember to not put a space before /me
<andylockran> guys, how do I run the 'screen' configuration tool from the CLI in Oneric
<andylockran> I want to disable it turning off
<MartijnVdS> there is a configuration tool?
<MartijnVdS> man screen?
<MartijnVdS> do you mean byobu?
<andylockran> MartijnVdS: I meant display/screen
<andylockran> not screen screen :p
<MartijnVdS> ah
<andylockran> haven't got an oneric box to play on
<MartijnVdS> it's in the top right corner, in the menu
<MartijnVdS> "Screens"
<gord> andylockran, "gnome-control-center screen"
<andylockran> gord: ta
<andylockran> :D
<andylockran> Anyone looking for a job as a SysAdmin?
<oimon> andylockran: what u got?
<andylockran> http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/JobSearch/JobDetails.aspx?JobId=52160597
<oimon> i'm also gonna be looking for a graduate SA for around that range. i'd be interested in the response you get
<diplo> Guys, wats the default for sending emails on natty server
<diplo> exim ?
<andylockran> oimon: sure, I'll let you know - where are you based?
<diplo> fail2ban trying to send an email but sendmail not installed
<oimon> andylockran: london
<diplo> Can't any of you work in Bristol/Bath area ?
<oimon> tried hiring for a more experienced role last year and struggled. however, your position should draw from a wider pool
<bigcalm_lappy> diplo: whichever mta is installed, it will most likely include a sendmail interface for other applications to use
<diplo> Can't find anything bigcalm
<oimon> diplo: my wife would probably like that...but no :)
<diplo> I'm guessing something gets installed by default
<oimon> Â PostfixÂ is the default Mail Transfer Agent (MTA) forÂ Ubuntu.
<diplo> Can't find that being installed either, always thought something got installed
<bigcalm_lappy> DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 10.04.3 LTS"
<bigcalm_lappy> iain@revo:~$ which sendmail
<bigcalm_lappy> /usr/sbin/sendmail
<bigcalm_lappy> I think I have postfix installed on that server
<oimon> ls -ld /usr/sbin/sendmail
<bigcalm_lappy> It's not sendmail, the mta gives a sendmail interface
<Laney> stop having my name!
<diplo> andy@asgard:/var/log$ which sendmail
<diplo> andy@asgard:/var/log$ which postfix
<diplo> andy@asgard:/var/log$
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm_lappy> There you go :)
<diplo> So install postfix I guess
<bigcalm_lappy> Install an mta :)
<bigcalm_lappy> Laney: whom has your name?
<diplo> Didn't want to install anything if I was just being dumb and couldn;t find it
<Laney> use ssmtp or nullmailer
<Laney> bigcalm_lappy: YOUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuu
<bigcalm_lappy> Oh, me :)
<bigcalm_lappy> Heh
<oimon> does server still not include ssh-server?
<bigcalm_lappy> Laney: there are few of us in this world
<diplo> Nope not afaik, was a huge chat on ubuntu-server
<diplo> dustin kirkland was for a default yes
<diplo> others were against
<diplo> So guessing still not in there
<andylockran> you can select it by default easy enough
<Laney> sigh
<Laney> woe is closing a chroot without saving its data
<bigcalm_lappy> 16:05 and people are starting to be productive in here
<bigcalm_lappy> Far too many people have coughs here. Help
<Laney> take a rebreather
<TheOpenSourcerer> I kept being kicked off irc for excess flooding or something/
<dogmatic69> * TheOpenSourcerer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not me. I was still here. Twitter was still gabbling away too.
<popey> uhm
<popey> on 11.10 64-bit, latest update gives me errors with libldap-2.4-2
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741324/
 * DJones Note to self, don't update tonight
<popey> same on two machines
 * TheOpenSourcerer deletes a folder "Popey" from TB
<popey> âº
 * gordonjcp hasn't got any machines running 64-bit
<gordonjcp> haven't got any that *can* run 64-bit, at that
<TheOpenSourcerer> And writes several sieve scripts to do server-side email filtering ;-)
<Laney> popey: that sounds like archive skew
<Laney> i.e. something that will sort itself out shortly
<popey> ok
<monsterwizard> god damn it
<monsterwizard> 67% on a assignment
<monsterwizard> I hate group work
<Laney> why hasn't my book come yet :(
<oimon> in order to get payments made i have to print a pdf , send it via internal mail, which gets scanned as a pdf :(
<Laney> the office will close soon
 * Laney grumbles
<oimon> generally i have to send the thing a few times cos they get lost on people's desks
<popey> Laney: makes sense
<Laney> you mean they can just wait until 17:01 and fail delivery because they know nobody will be there?
<jonsaint> hi all. been a way for a while and now getting used to this new ubuntu! can someone direct me as to how i uninstall libav files, i cant seem to find how on this new one
<popey> bah
<popey> my desktop just shut itself down
<Darael> jonsaint: well, there's always the command-line (apt-get remove package-name), but I use that too much myself to be able to comment on how it's done with the Software Centre.
<popey> powered off whilst I was using it
<jonsaint> can it be done in software centre hen??
<Laney> that happened to the missus, and it never came back
<Darael> jonsaint: I would /assume/ that one could search it for the package, and possibly click the "<num> technical items" thing near the bottom.
<popey> i think it's overheated
<popey> it boots then shuts down almost immediately
<popey> its not old
<Laney> crack it open
<popey> yeah
<popey> on a conf call
<popey> love headphones
<jonsaint> just trie to type it in software centre but nothing came up. im very much an amature on ubunty!
<Darael> jonsaint: There may be a link somewhere on the empty search page about "display <num> technical items"?
<jonsaint> Darael, im trying to install devede but its saying need to uninstall a few libav files first and im baffled as to how to uninstall them
<CaMason> just spotted the word headphones... any suggestions for a pair of comfertable, in-ear buds? (cheap too, preferably)
<CaMason> lol comfertable... what a spelling fail.
<popey> yeah, i have some sennheiser ones
<CaMason> Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£ or Â£Â£?
<popey> bought at airport
<CaMason> comfy though?
<oimon> sennheisers in ear too
<oimon> very nice
<oimon> cheap from richer sounds
<oimon> or amazion
<CaMason> there's a richer sounds down near me, Plymouth
<kvarley> How can I get the output from a command and format it in bash? By format I mean search for a particular start point and  then end after a space
<jonsaint> frustrating!!!
<shauno> kvarley: I want to say awk, but it the easiest method will depend what your output actually looks like
<kvarley> shauno: I have seen grep used, will that do the job?
<shauno> that'll pick out the right line, not the right word
<deej1976> kvarley: command | cut [options] | cut [options] > file
<kvarley> shauno & deej1976: thanks
<Darael> kvarley, shauno: grep /can/ do the job - there's a flag that makes it output only the matching parts of each matching line.  Can't remember what it is off the top of my head.  'course, there's the cut solution, too.
<kvarley> I'm trying to get ifconfig to return just the local inet addr of the machine with no other characters either side of the string
<DJones> Has anybody come across this before http://www.desura.com/groups/desura/news/public-release-of-the-linux-client
<kvarley> DJones: Yes I use Desura
<DJones> Looks interesting, reads like Steam but with a native linux client
<funkyHat> kvarley: perhaps sed -n 's/.*\(start[^ ]*\).*/\1/ p'
<directhex> it works
<funkyHat> That is totally untested
<directhex> desura is mostly small indie games, fwiw
<funkyHat> Oh getting the IP out of ifconfig
<DJones> A lot of the game names I see on their website seem to be already in the default repo's
<Barbarian> evenin' gents
<Barbarian> got my hands on the desura source code today :D so psyched
<funkyHat> kvarley: ifconfig wlan0 | sed -n 's/.*addr:\([^ ]*\).*/\1/ p'
<funkyHat> Replace wlan0 with the name of the interface you want to check
<kvarley> funkyHat: thanks, how do I remove the trailing line it adds?
<funkyHat> kvarley: for some reason wrapping it in echo $() seems to sort that
<funkyHat> I don't really know why
<kvarley> funkyHat: haha ok, it works perfectly anyways, thanks a lot! =)
<funkyHat> â¢) np
<shauno> a lot of things do subtley different things when the output isn't being redirected. usually you'll never notice because they just do the right thing ;)  (like ls not using columns when you pipe it)
<funkyHat> In zsh \ p also seems to get output to the line with the IP address, but it doesn't seem to be via STDOUT
<funkyHat> Also I wouldn't have expected sed to be something that treats STDOUT differently to a pipe
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Welcoming Our New Horseman: Michael Hall - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/17/welcoming-our-new-horseman-michael-hall/
<celesteh_> hello, i have switched from running xfce to gnome and i think i'm happier, but i'm wondering how i can disable clicking by tapping my laptop's touchpad?
<Azelphur> celesteh_: it's in system > preferences > mouse
<celesteh_> thank you azelphur
<celesteh_> this is a lonovo tablet and the touch screen theoretically supports multitouch. do i need to install drviers or something for that?
<Azelphur> no idea.
<Myrtti> hm
<Myrtti> I just had a thought about the virtual keyboards in Ubuntu
<popey> Myrtti: have you seen the meego keyboard?
<Myrtti> oh yeah, it's nice
<Myrtti> but the point is
<Myrtti> Intel made some sort of a deal with Swype Inc in order to get Swype into Intel version of the MeeGo image
<popey> oh
<Myrtti> so perhaps Swype could be made available atleast in the software central for people to buy it
<Myrtti> I'd totally pay for it especially if it came with Finnish support
<Myrtti> and since the Intel Meego had it, there has to be some sort of feasability to the idea - I had the Intel image of MeeGo on this same tablet
<Myrtti> atleast on technical sense
<awilkins> Why is it so quiet in here around 1840? I demand entertainment!
 * chrisjrob does a backward somersault 
<awilkins> I would stamp my foot, but /me doesn't work on this stupid phone IRC client
<awilkins> Likewise, would applaud etc. etc.
<awilkins> /me tried /me again
<chrisjrob> wish i could do that irl
<Darael> awilkins: It's so quiet around here in 1840 because we haven't invented IRC yet.
<awilkins> To impress laydee or evade zombies
<chrisjrob> are there zombies in here?
 * chrisjrob looks worried
<chrisjrob> freakyclown: wherever i go you're already there
<awilkins> Well, 89 of them, it seems. Or maybe they're *really* dead instead of just quiescent
<chrisjrob> that's the problem with irc - you can't see them walking slowly towards you, arms outstretched
<AlanBell> Myrtti: Dell did a similar deal to get it on the streak
<awilkins> Holy monkey, they just apologised for 3 mins of train lateness
<awilkins> They don't usually even admit it untul it's at least 10
 * Darael walks slowly and invisibly toward awilkins, arms outstretched, before ruining the effect with a cry of "GRRAAAAAIINSSSS".
<awilkins> I remove the carrot from my pocket and toss it into the distance.
<gordonjcp> zombie plumber
<gordonjcp> wants your draaiiinnnnsssss
 * Darael ignores the carrot, since he is looking for grrrraaaaaaiiiinssssss rather than root vegetables.
<awilkins> I follow up with a harvest crunch bar, lamenting the lack of ability to use "/me" that makes me sound like an inexperienced RPG player not ascribing his actions to his character
<Darael> I think I'll stop this, at this point.  It can't possibly end well.
<chrisjrob> no, don't stop, that's how they get you
<awilkins> Rule 1 : Cardio
<awilkins> The corrolary should be not to throw away your harvest crunch bar in case of stamina depletion
<riaz23_> hi there,
<Darael> Greetings.
<riaz23_> i have a problem. actually i was installing the ubuntu version 11.10 and the files were downloaded from internet but while installing the updates my system shutdown due to POWER porblem nad after that when i started the system the previous version is also not working. i have come across such problem 1st time so can anyone help me what to do now
<AlanBell> riaz23_: can you get to a terminal?
<riaz23_> yes <AlanBell> I can.
<jutnux> Evening gentlebeans.
<jutnux> Just tried a toast sandwich.
 * bigcalm collapses
<jutnux> So how're you all?
<AlanBell> jutnux: ooh, I nearly had one of those today, how was it?
<AlanBell> riaz23_: sudo apt-get install -f might help
<jutnux> AlanBell, Extremely nice! I'm quite full at the minute. Remember to smother it in butter, salt and pepper.
<bigcalm> AlanBell: glad to see we now have 6 confirmed peeps for the meal :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I might stop reminding people every day now ;)
<riaz23_> ok dear AlanBell: trying that
<AlanBell> riaz23_: depends a bit how broken things are, you might weigh up the time involved in fixing them vs new install
<jutnux> I wish I could come bigcalm! Maybe in a couple of years ;)
<AlanBell> jutnux: will do
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yes, it is looking good
<jutnux> AlanBell, definitely worth it though.
<AlanBell> daubers: hi
<AlanBell> daubers: can you remove yourself from the maybe attending list at your ealiest convenience please :)  http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
<riaz23_> AlanBell: how can I install new one? actaullay i am unable to see GUI
<AlanBell> bigcalm: is is great that doctormo can come over from America for it
<jutnux> Have you been to Dans Le Noir before AlanBell ?
<jutnux> or bigca
<jutnux> bigcalm,*
<bigcalm> AlanBell: somebody is coming all the way from the states for the ubuntu-UK meal?
<AlanBell> riaz23_: I mean a fresh install from downloading a new CD, or getting one posted http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<bigcalm> jutnux: I have not
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yes (he is a brit, coming home early for christmas)
<bigcalm> Ah, sweet :)
<AlanBell> jutnux: no, not been there before, but I have been to a similar concept in Vienna
<jutnux> Oh right AlanBell. Was it good?
<AlanBell> it was excellent
<jutnux> Awesome.
<oimon1> um...is it possible to fry a VGA cable?
<oimon1> by plugging into a new video card
<gordonjcp> oimon1: you might bend a pin
<oimon1> gordonjcp: is looks perfect
<gordonjcp> there's usually nothing "smart" in the cable
<oimon1> and is in great condition
<oimon1> no wobbly bits.
<oimon1> the last thing i saw was "unsupported video mode" and then failed to display
<oimon1> after i'd installed new gfx card. climbed into loft to get the spare monitor and i thought i'd try to vga cable..
<DJones> AlanBell: I'll have to try & meet up with doctormo when he gets back home since he's from the same town as me & went to school with some of my mates
<DJones> Had tried to meet up last year, but I ended up busy when a night out had been planned
<daubers> AlanBell: Yup! Intending to do so tomorrow, got a discussion at work that hinges on me going or not
<AlanBell> ok, thanks daubers
<jutnux> Does anyone know if SOPA succeeded or not?
<jutnux> Or is it still going on?
<popey> Laney: looks like the issue is still not fixed with libldap i386
<daubers> urgh, ldap
<popey> uhm
<bigcalm> Had my flu jab this evening
<popey> loads of things are disappearing from my launcher as I am looking at it
 * bigcalm sneezes over everybody
<bigcalm> I blame gord if I get sick
<popey> seriously all of libreoffice just disappeared
<popey> and polly
<bigcalm> o.O
<jutnux> popey, I thought LibreOffice didn't work with Unity?
<popey> un  libreoffice                               <none>                                    (no description available)
<czajkowski> polly ?
<jutnux> The launcher, that is.,
<popey> uhm
<popey> I am installing the nvidia binary driver
<popey> and loads of my desktop is being ripped out
<czajkowski> oh dear
<bigcalm> Oh poo
<DJones> popey: It must be something in the last 24 hours of updates, after your comment earlier, I haven't run updates today & everything is running fine
<bigcalm> Did somebody put rm -rf / into a package update?
<popey> its that libladp:i386
<popey> it wants to remove everything
<popey> and me installing nvidia-current is letting it do that
 * bigcalm keeps away from updates for a bit
<czajkowski> popey: oneiric?
<ali1234> it's not doing that for me
<ali1234> using apt-get anyway
<DJones> czajkowski: polly -> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/latest-update-to-twitter-app-polly-adds-real-time-updating/
<jutnux> Weekend tomorrow, finally.
<mattt> jutnux: yusss!
<jutnux> mattt, happy times!
 * jutnux wants another toast Sandwich
<DJones> \o/ Friday, I can have my car back :)
<czajkowski> ah cool
<mattt> and more heineken cup this weekend
<popey> ali1234: you on amd64 and have flash installed?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741631/
<popey> that lot got removed
<mattt> krikey
<jutnux> Holy hell.
<ali1234> popey: yes
<jutnux> Not that you need gwibber ;)
<jutnux> Oh, ubuntu-desktop got removed.
<jutnux> Not good.
<ali1234> i already don't have ubuntu-desktop
<ali1234> maybe that's part of it somehow
<DJones> Is it recoverable from?
 * popey reinstalls it all
<popey> yes
<popey> what a mess
<DJones> I'm on 64 bit, flash installed, I'm willing to give updates a chance as long as its recoverable
<Daviey> popey: what happend?
<popey> so sequence of events is, 64 bit install, has 32-bit flash installed, did updates today, it wanted to update libldap 64b-bit
<ali1234> i thought desktop was supposed to be the focus?
<popey> but failed to update libldap:i386
<popey> broken dependancy
<DJones> Pretty sure I've got 64 bit flash installed
<popey> that i386 package was needed by libcurl:i386 which was needed by flashplugin-installer
<popey> i386
<Daviey> popey: is that a regression from a -security or -updates upload?
<ali1234> oh, i do have ubuntu-desktop installed
<ali1234> your system must just be messed up popey
<popey> wherever the latest libldap came from today
<popey> no ali1234
<ali1234> i told you not to install those funny debs
<popey> its not
<popey> Daviey: my pc crashed earlier so i yanked the disk out and put it in my nvidia desktop
<ali1234> heh
<Daviey> popey: It would be good to get to the bottom of it asap, after tomorrow it'll hang around to Monday.
<popey> i had a red alert in the corner because of the apt mess due to unresolved dependancy with libldap:i386
<popey> i figured as laney said earlier its probably just repos out of sync
<popey> so i waited and still had the red light
<ali1234> which repo are you using?
<popey> standard ones
<ali1234> well i am using the standard ones too
<Daviey> popey: security upload by the looks of it
<popey> so i just used jockey to install nvidia-current
<popey> which then proceeded to install nvidia-current and remove half my desktop
<popey> including all that you just saw in the paste
<DJones> Just looking at update manager, I can see libldap-2.4-2 and libldap-2.4-2:i386 available to update
<Daviey> popey: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openldap/2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1 , doesn't look dangerous from a package dep PoV
<Laney> popey: weird, what mirror are you using?
<popey> DJones: right, can you apt-get dist-upgrade
<jutnux> Is anyone doing anything for Children In Need tomorrow?
<popey> and not go through with it
<DJones> Give me a sec
<popey> and get a copy/paste to pastebin
<ali1234> popey: i just did that
<DJones> popey: sudo? or not
<popey> yes
<ali1234> http://pastebin.com/NhLUx5iy
<popey> i worked around it on another machine by doing "sudo apt-get remove libldap-2.4-2:i386 libcurl3:i386 flashplugin-downloader:i386 flashplugin-installer"
<DJones> http://pastebin.com/38S9CNG1
<Daviey> smells like a multiarch bug IMO.
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741638/
<czajkowski> Laney: evening! nice to have finally have met you
<Laney> czajkowski: likewise!
<czajkowski> it really does help to put the faces to the names on here
<ali1234> popey: what version of dlashplugin-installer is that?
<czajkowski> but realy name tags at breakie is a must!
<popey> i removed it
<Laney> wget http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz -q -O- |  zcat | grep-dctrl -FPackage -sPackage,Version libldap
<Laney> does not show 4.1
<Laney> hah, s/oneiric/oneiric-security/
<SuprEngr> http://bbc.co.uk/pudsey - text "donate" *to 70705
<jutnux> SuprEngr, now donating.
<SuprEngr> jutnux, :)
<jutnux> SuprEngr, http://paste.ubuntu.com/741649/
<SuprEngr> ...& thanks
<SuprEngr> jutnux, ...& having read that - *many* thankyous
<jutnux> No problemo.
<jutnux> A worth cause.
<Laney> i just realised i was muttering to myself as my housemate washed up in the same room
<Laney> too polite to say anything
<jutnux> ahaha
<Laney> i cannot reproduce this ldap thingy :(
<ali1234> neither can i
<popey> i had it on two machines
<ali1234> isn't there an apt log somewhere?
<popey> both clean installs
<popey> both amd64
<jutnux> Anyways
<jutnux> Now going
 * jutnux waves goodbye to everyone
<Laney> is one of them still unupgraded?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741661/
<popey> dpkg log
<mattt> jutnux: night
<ali1234> so did you reinstall ubuntu-desktop?
<popey> i installed ubuntu-desktop^
<popey> after jockey removed everything
<ali1234> it must be a problem of jockey?
<popey> no
<popey> ok, let me explain
<ali1234> because apt-get is not doing this
<popey> I have two machines
<popey> they both had the same problem, they both said there was a dependancy resolution issue with libldap i386
<ali1234> what was the problem?
<popey> that was the first I knew there was some kind of issue
<popey> i pastebinned something earlier today
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741324/
<popey> thats what i pastebinned earlier
<popey> so i tried -f and it said "I need to remove all this stuff" and listed basically half the desktop
<popey> so i said 'no'
<popey> and left it
<Laney> jockey really ought not to have done that
<popey> and on that machine I (later) manually removed libldap:i386 and flash etc (as I outlined above a bit)
<popey> now, on my other machine
<popey> which was in a similar state, red light in the indicator area
<popey> on that one I needed to install nvidia driver, so used jockey
<ali1234> so the problem is in an older version of ldap
<popey> as soon as I clicked 'activate' the red indicator for update manager went away
<popey> then apps started disappearing from the launcher
<popey> as it ripped out the desktop
<ali1234> what does "breaks" actually mean wrt apt?
<Laney> got to bake a cake, sorry - brb :(
<ali1234> "When one binary package declares that it breaks another, dpkg will refuse to allow the package which declares Breaks to be unpacked unless the broken package is deconfigured first, and it will refuse to allow the broken package to be reconfigured."
<ali1234> so we have libldap-2.4-2 : Breaks: libldap-2.4-2:i386 (!= 2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1) but 2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4 is installed
<popey> i need to get this down in a bug
<popey> against what tho?
<ali1234> now there's two things that bother me about that line
<SuprEngr> has anyone realised that if you remove Banshee from 11.10 and replace it with Rhythmbox, it sets movie player as your the play music option - I would've complain but found it so funny... I was too tired from laughing!
<ali1234> SuprEngr: you can configure those now
<ali1234> but only banshee and movie player show up in the list and you can't easily add your own options
<ali1234> so remove banshee and movie player is all that's left
<ali1234> anyway about that line
<SuprEngr> ali1234, yep - only took me 12 minutes to find where it put Preffered Apps
<ali1234> first this: libldap-2.4-2:i386 (!= 2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1) . the packages are not equal. so why is it a problem?
<SuprEngr> [under system Info - wtf!????
<ali1234> SuprEngr: everything is in there now. blame gnome
<ali1234> ah i see
<ali1234> it is all clear to me now
<SuprEngr> ali1234, actually imho - there is vet little in there
<SuprEngr> *very
<ali1234> popey: what it's telling you is you *need* to have the exact same version of ldap and ldap:i386
<ali1234> libldab that is
<ali1234> don't ask me how you got unmatched versions
<ali1234> but somehow you did
<popey> heh
<ali1234> and now neither one can be upgraded because doing so would make it out of sync with the other one
 * bigcalm sneaks off to bed
<popey> Cannot connect to crash database, please check your Internet connection.
<popey> HTTP Error 502: Bad Gateway
<popey> thanks apport
<popey> yeah, bed here too
<ali1234> libldap-2.4-2:i386 : Breaks: libldap-2.4-2 (!= 2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4) is saying you can't install this along side any version except for 2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4
<ali1234> and the other one wants .1
<ali1234> so they exclude each other
<ali1234> and obviously ubuntu-desktop relies on them
<ali1234> so the only way to resolve it is to remove both
<ali1234> at which point the problem evaporates into nothing
<ali1234> along with ubuntu-desktop
<AlanBell> erk
<AlanBell> so, is this wrong in the repos right now?
<ali1234> no, not right now. i just updated with no problems
<ali1234> most likely this is something that went wrong in the repos a while ago and nobody noticed
<ali1234> for example, the package versions got out of sync
<popey> i udated right after the security note came out
<ali1234> popey upgraded some time ago, nothing bad happened
<AlanBell> was popey unlucky installing between uploads of the two packages?
<ali1234> then someone realised out of sync packages = bad and changed the deps
<ali1234> and so popey was unable to upgrade. but anyone who didn't upgrade at exactly the wrong time, potentially weeks ago, will not be affected
<ali1234> AlanBell: looks that way to me
 * AlanBell does an update
<ali1234> i have not run any updates for about two weeks
<ali1234> then ran one just now, everything was fine
<AlanBell> !info libldap
<lubotu3`> Package libldap does not exist in natty
<ali1234> i currently have 2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1 for 32 and 64
 * AlanBell grumbles at the bot
<AlanBell> !info libldap oneiric
<lubotu3`> 'oneiric' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable
<ali1234> nice try
<popey> !info libldap2 oneiric
<lubotu3`> 'oneiric' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable
<popey> bah
<AlanBell> and no jussi at the moment
<popey> its jpds' bot isnt it?
<AlanBell> oh, maybe it is
<ali1234> would probably be helpful at this point to see the dependency info for the old one
<popey> also fwiw, my laptop was a clean install 4 days ago
<AlanBell> and upgraded at the time of install?
<popey> yes
<popey> and other packages over the course of this week
<Myrtti> ohmygawd, Hairy Bikers â¥ Just watched their episode of Vegetarian food and I can't remember when I've last drooled so much
<SuprEngr> perhaps best left at... 'oneiric' is not a valid distribution
<AlanBell> popey: grep libldap /var/log/dpkg.log might be interesting
 * SuprEngr counts days till 12.04
<ali1234> so the .1 is the bugfx release
<ali1234> my best guess is you updated when only one version was available
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741689/
<ali1234> popey: that's after you got that dpkg error though
<popey> no
<popey> that dates back to 12th
<popey> the 15:54 is when I updated earlier today
<ali1234> 12 of august
<popey> after that update the red light appeared for i386
<popey> h
<popey> oh
<ali1234> oh is that a grep on ldap?
<AlanBell> thats when it went wrong
<popey> need older dpkg.log
<popey> yes
<ali1234> no that should have everything
<SuprEngr> aww go on someone - ask me why I've gone anti- 11.10 all of a sudden
<popey> you're right thats all of it
<Daviey> popey: i just did the update, doesn't look like i have that issue.  But then, i might have less multiarch than you.
<ali1234> popey: look at the 15:54 stuff
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741690/ thats the whole log
<ali1234> it upgrades the 64 bit one, but not the i386 one. that's where it broke
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> presumably at that time the i386 package was not up yet
<AlanBell> today, between uploads
<ali1234> i can check by looking at the mirror timestamps...
<Daviey> I'd be qute suprised if ie86 and amd64 were not published on the same run
<Daviey> They were copied from the Security team PPA, so it's not as if they were built at different times and published seperately.
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741694/
<popey> thats the log from landscape
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741691/ output of grep libldap /var/log/dpkg.log for me
<ali1234> yeah you got both upgraded
<popey> i wonder if this is because i upgraded via landscape
<popey> is landscape multiarch aware?
<ali1234> it looks like popey's update at 4pm bombed out at libldap:i386?
<ali1234> did you get a dpkg update between 4pm and 8pm?
<Daviey> popey: I don't know that smart handles multi-arch TBH
<popey> hmmm
<popey> does smart log?
<popey> ali1234: pass
<Daviey> NFI
<popey> i see nothing in /var/log
<Laney> too lazy to bake :(
<Laney> / tired
<Laney> it would be weird if they weren't published simultaneously indeed, but then again I do not know how LP copies work
<popey> right, filed a bug in landscape
<AlanBell> that would be sub-optimal if all the landscape managed machines everywhere broke themselves tomorrow
<AlanBell> I know the point is you can choose to do test deployments to different groups of machines etc
<Laney> how is it landscape's fault?
<Laney> i saw a dist-upgrade paste that showed unupgradables
<popey> it wasnt distupgrade
<popey> i did the upgrade via landscape
<Laney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741324/ ?
<popey> thats after the breakage happened
<popey> illustrating the breakage
<popey> thunderbird in 'still not got the right number of mails on my launcher' shocker
<Laney> aha
<Laney> so landscape upgraded the i386 package somehow
<Laney> without the native one
<popey> other way round
<popey> or not, i dunno, too tired now âº
<Laney> no, you iz rite
 * Laney eats more soup
<popey> mmm soup
<popey> looking forward to mushroom soup tomorrow
<popey> and will add extra mushrooms
 * AlanBell appears to have 5 perpetual licenses for landscape
<Laney> tomorrow i have to skive off work in the morning to buy my mother's birthday presents
<Laney> and then speedbake a cake before leaving for a weekend canoeing
<Laney> :-)
<popey> i have to take sam shopping at the weekend
<popey> i need a shoe box (not shoes) and some things to put in for some child somwhere else in the world
<popey> i think we have a very prescribed set of things to put in it like pens, notepad, toothbrush.
<Laney> those are a nice idea, we did them back when i was a cub leader
<Laney> was a bit hard to find a non-religious charity to go through iirc
<popey> i cant recall the charity we're going through
<popey> its via the school so no idea
<popey> oh, hang on, leaflet
<Laney> a lot of them liked to insert bibles into your boxes
<popey> oh really?
<popey> I did not know that
<popey> I will be enquiring
<popey> thanks!
<Laney> depends on the charity, and this was a few years ago
<popey> I can believe it
<Daviey> popey: You are buying a new pair of shoes, purely for the shoe box? :)
<Daviey> popey: pro tip, use a shoe box for a baby pair of shoes. Cheaper to fill.
<popey> Daviey: i dont buy shoes that are so expensive that they have a box âº
<popey> mine usually dont even come with a bag
<popey> I have to rip them off the tramps feet
<popey> ..without waking him
<Laney> i have stupidly small feet, so filling my shoe boxes wouldn't be a problem
<Laney> size 6
<funkyHat> Laney: good if you like wearing heels though
<popey> joy
<Laney> good for me climbing actually
<Daviey> Laney: wow, you DO have small feet.
<Daviey> Laney: Can you claim a blue badge?
<Laney> i have been known to topple over in a stiff breeze
<Azelphur> I am having ridiculous amounts of fun with Drupal \o/
<Azelphur> I made a module that utilises GameQ and APC for caching, I can just write "[server tf2 surf.tf2.azelphur.com numplayers]" and it replaces it with a live player count from my server \o/
<ali1234> the drupal logo represents the tears of people who try to use it
<buzz_> i like drupal.
<Azelphur> your just mad I am getting good results :D
<Azelphur> I like drupal too
<buzz_> always worked for me
<buzz_> only build a few sites on it. not used v7 yet.
<Azelphur> I've got really awesome stuff working :D
<Azelphur> using v7 here
<buzz_> im going to do my personal blog stuff in d7 most liekly
<ali1234> i have to rebuild my whole site every time i update it
<Azelphur> buzz_: I'm making an entire network of sites on d7 :D
<buzz_> nice
<ali1234> because it forgets all the menus
<ali1234> because the menu is a plugin like everything else in drupal
<Azelphur> o.O
<Azelphur> ali1234: I have a clever set up using a module that hides content based on what site your on, so technically there's only one site, but it changes "mode" depending on which domain your accessing it with
<funkyHat> I kind of like drupal, but for anything more involved than a basic CMS/blog I end up spending more time clicking stuff than I would writing the site from scratch in rails
<Azelphur> different themes, different content, but I can create any type of content and post it to any combination of the sites :D
<funkyHat> Theming it is really nice though
<Azelphur> hehe
<funkyHat> Azelphur: I use drupal's multisite features... a weird split site like you're describing wouldn't really work for the sites I host
<Azelphur> funkyHat: why not? :)
<Azelphur> multisite is better if you have totally 100% separate sites that are nothing to do with eachother
<funkyHat> Azelphur: that is why ;)
<Azelphur> but for a network of connected sites, content access rules
<Azelphur> haha, :)
<Azelphur> domain access rather :P
<funkyHat> That does sound like it could be useful, is the module on drupal.org?
<Azelphur> funkyHat: yea, http://drupal.org/project/domain
<Azelphur> funkyHat: I asked in the drupal channel about what I could do regarding shared user database and global (and nonglobal) forums, domain access does it no problem
<funkyHat> Azelphur: does it do single sign-on too? That would be nice
<Azelphur> funkyHat: there is only one site, so yes.
<Azelphur> funkyHat: what it does is it detects what site your on, and overrides the content access permissions on practically everything so it can be shown or not shown on a per site basis
<funkyHat> Azelphur: well it would depend how it managed the cookies, but cool that it works
<Azelphur> yea, I've noticed the cookies are an issue
<Azelphur> you have one user and pass, but have to login to all 3 sites
<Azelphur> havn't worked around that yet
<funkyHat> That's what I meant by single sign on â¢Ã¾
<funkyHat> OpenID could possibly be a sort-of solution
<Azelphur> hehe I plan to allow openid sign on anyway
<funkyHat> Speaking of which I need to fix my OpenID provider
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-18
<The_Fred> hello
<The_Fred> Whats the way to map function keys to a python or .sh script?
<ball> In Britain, do people generally buy their own modems or are they provided by (rented from?) the ISP?
<tugrik> usually provided by the ISP, although more technical users will tend to buy their own
<Azelphur> ball: it's shifting more towards provided by the ISP
<ball> Hmm... okay, thanks.
<tugrik> why do you ask?
<ball> tugrik: I'm writing an article on networking for small businesses and organisations and it's intended for a British audience.
<ball> ...it's years since I lived there and I didn't know what the usual practice is now.
<ball> Here's another example: Ethernet "holes" in the wall... are they sockets or jacks?
<tugrik> "socket"
<tugrik> although probably "port" is most common
<tugrik> but I'm hoping your frame of reference is going to be more than some tired random who should have gone to bed by now ;)
<ball> :-)
<ball> Thanks
<riaz23> hi greetings everyone
<riaz23> i have a problem can anyone kindly help me
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> morning
<popey> AHA!
<popey> indicator applet says I have 5 new mails
<popey> its not updating, if i click a mail in indicator mail applet the number in thunderbird icon in launcher goes down
<christel> good morning
 * czajkowski tickles christel hello darling 
<christel> heey beauty!
<christel> how are you?
<czajkowski> ntb, check up at the consultant today with my back. so will see
<czajkowski> christel: hows you and your cute monkey doing ?
<christel> very well!
<christel> ooh good luck!
<christel> the monky is rapidly becoming cheekier by the day :)
<diplo> Morning all
<czajkowski> has he learnt more words than No or is that still the fav ?
<popey> BAH!
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/742016/
<hoover> morning all
<popey> ali1234: / AlanBell my desktop is still broken
<DJones> popey: Still no success with the updates then
<ali1234> no problems here
<ali1234> must be that landscape stuff?
<diplo> Looks kinda broken
<AlanBell> popey: on the plus side you will free up 648MB of disk space
<AlanBell> hmm, it wants to remove ubuntu-desktop again :(
<popey> thats me trying to install flash
<AlanBell> does dpkg -l|grep libldap show matching versions now?
<popey> ii  libldap-2.4-2                          2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1                     OpenLDAP libraries
<popey> rc  libldap-2.4-2:i386                     2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4                       OpenLDAP libraries
<AlanBell> what happens if you try to uninstall those?
<popey> alan@wopr:~$ sudo apt-get update
<popey> E: The method driver /usr/lib/apt/methods/https could not be found.
<popey> uhm
 * popey installs apt-transport-https
<popey> aha!
<popey> its updating now
<popey> The following packages will be upgraded: libfreetype6 libfreetype6:i386 libfreetype6-dev python-cupshelpers system-config-printer-common system-config-printer-gnome system-config-printer-udev
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/742030/
<popey> better
<AlanBell> and it looks like it wants to update libldap-2.4-2:i386
<AlanBell> install rather, the rc means it was removed but may have config files remaining
<AlanBell> after that runs you should have
<AlanBell> ii  libldap-2.4-2:i386                        2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1                        OpenLDAP libraries
<popey> ii  libldap-2.4-2                          2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1                     OpenLDAP libraries
<popey> ii  libldap-2.4-2:i386                     2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1                     OpenLDAP libraries
<popey> \o/
<AlanBell> \o/
<selinuxium> TFI!!!!!!   :)
<daubers> o/
<selinuxium> \o
<popey>  _____     _     _             _
<popey> |  ___| __(_) __| | __ _ _   _| |
<popey> | |_ | '__| |/ _` |/ _` | | | | |
<popey> |  _|| |  | | (_| | (_| | |_| |_|
<popey> |_|  |_|  |_|\__,_|\__,_|\__, (_)
<popey>                          |___/
<DJones> Not just Friday, but CAR day as well
<popey> CAR?
<DJones> I'm, due to get my repaired car back this afternoon
<popey> ah
<popey> I haven't used my car for a few days
<christel> czajkowski: atm the favourite word seems to be "more" :s
<czajkowski> more hugs :)
<christel> more tomatoes mainly
<christel> he is mad about tomatoes bless him
<DJones> popey: Lucky you, I've been relying on lifts for the last week
<czajkowski> lovely red stained clothes eh :)
<christel> oh yes!
<DJones> Water pump failed, with the bearings collapsing, when that went it knocked the timing belt a couple of notches which knocked the valves & wrecked the cylinder head
<christel> he also sneaks off and grabs a pack of cherry tomatos to eat when we walk through waitrose
<DJones> Complete engine disembowelment
<popey> ouch
<popey> what car?
<DJones> Picasso
<christel> so i get to the checkout and the till person is all "oh this one seems broken, do you want me to get you a new one?" and i have to be all "sorry, no, that's my son the shoplifter"
<popey> ooo, thats got to be a good grand or so?
<DJones> Â£650
<popey> oh thats not bad
<popey> not great âº
<DJones> Sort of mates rates :)
<popey> hah
<DJones> I've got a mechanic lives over the road, he was going to do it, but was too much for him now he's semi-retired, so got one of his mates to do it
<DJones> Still not good this close to Christmas though
<jonsaint> hi all. does anyone know where i can get ubuntu screensavers on the net
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
 * AlanBell observes a Chris Wollard on the dans le noir list
 * bigcalm tickles christel as he hasn't seen her alive in here for a while
<AlanBell> daubers: if you and bruno confirm I will need to get an extra place
<bigcalm> I'm worried about updating any of my machines due to popey's troubles with libldap. What to do?
<popey> you wont have that problem
<bigcalm> How come?
<christel> AlanBell: ooh how many are we now?
<christel> heya bigcalm :)
<jonsaint> anyone know where i can get ubuntu screensavers from online?
<popey> because I updated via landscape which doesn't support multiarch
<bigcalm> AHA!
<nigelb> heh, fun.
<j0nr> morning
<j0nr> I have a quick question about Maildir... can I simply 'mv' mailboxes inside other to 'nest' them?
<bigcalm> I guess I should sort out my train tickets for the 9th/10th then!
<danfish> lo
<gordonjcp> is it safe to update libldap on 32-bit?
<DJones> gordonjcp: Sounds like it, from what popey said earlier, it an issue with using landscape to update because it doesn't multi-arch
<popey> yes
<popey> you almost certainly wont hit the issue I did
<BigRedS> just don't use ldap
<bigcalm> BigRedS: I didn't think I used ldap, but it appears to be installed on every machine I have
<bigcalm> Well, the lib anyway
<bigcalm> A return will cost me 207 quid. 2 singles about 73 quid
<bigcalm> That's the cost of using the train on 2 different days
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: where you off to?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! youtu.be/mGgMZpGYiy8
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: the xmas meal
<dogmatic69> seems very pricey for the train
<dogmatic69> bham to london is Â£5
<popey> bigcalm: cheaper to drive innit?
 * BigRedS just claimed expenses for Â£55.26 worth of coffee
<mattt> morning
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: nice
<gordonjcp> I really miss alt-f2
<gordonjcp> I think that's the thing that does my head in most about unity
<BigRedS> it sort-of works in unity
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: well yeah
<AlanBell> just different
<gordonjcp> you press alt-f2 and it pops up a text entry
<gordonjcp> but it doesn't do anything
<BigRedS> that's all it ever did
<gordonjcp> you can type whatever you like in there, it won't actually start any programs
<BigRedS> oh, yeah
<AlanBell> works for me
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: it works maybe once in ten goes for me
<gordonjcp> if I type really slowly
<BigRedS> bug 788350 ?
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 788350 in unity-place-applications (Ubuntu) "alt+f2 implies it can run utter nonsense" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788350
<gordonjcp> and give it two or three minutes before I hit return
<AlanBell> not reproduced
<BigRedS> ooh. maybe it's fixed. I stopped checking a little while ago
<BigRedS> heh. maybe even before release
<bigcalm> popey: I shall investigate
<bigcalm> From google maps: Est. fuel cost: 33.24 quid
<bigcalm> Car it is then
<bigcalm> (one way)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bigcalm> Ahoy
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<Laney> good lord
<Laney> TLPI is absolutely massive
<smittix> Morning all
<davmor2> morning all
<smittix> heh
<Laney> 1445 pages!
 * bigcalm ponders transfering 1024 quid into a savings account just to be geeky
<bigcalm> Sadly, nobody will get the geekyness and with interest, it'll become non-geeky later
<AlanBell> you can divide 70 by the interest rate to find the number of years it will take to become Â£2048
<bigcalm> About 23 years
<popey> That zoostorm core i7 'cheap' pc I bought two months ago. emailed their tech support and an engineer will be here on tuesday. not bad for a pc bought off ebuyer
<gord> nothing but nice things to say about stuff bought off ebuyer
<gordonjcp> is there a way to disable apps running full-screen?
<gordonjcp> particularly blunderbird, which always seems to start full-screen no matter what
 * smittix is a happy bunny today
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: F11 sometimes flips
<smittix> https://plus.google.com/111668224774411825334/posts
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: yeah, sorry, not fullscreen but maximised
<popey> blank page smittix
<popey> oh, your posts aren't public
<bigcalm> I cannie read that hand writing
<gord> its easy! "Fa: James smith - I hope you angry my clang lets stag. I wish you the let in your adamfdn. All my hat, Heru Milnul 11/15/11"
<bigcalm> :D
<popey> Ooo, it's LOUD O'CLOCK again!
<daubers> popey: Turning it up to 11?
<popey> YES
<gord> my volume only goes to 10 =\
<gord> but new mario arrived on my doorstep so i can be loud in celebration
<bigcalm> gord: use the iPlay, it goes to 11
<bigcalm> iPlayer
<Myrtti> hohum.
<popey> having a monitor that has DVI VGA and HDMI is a GOOD THING
<popey> [FACT]
<bigcalm> popey: multiple signals?
<popey> yesh, no idea how to switch tho
<popey> ooo, touch controls
<popey> I love this screen
<Myrtti> time to call Dell and ask for an EFI reset key or whatever it is called
<bigcalm> No menu controls on the screen edge?
<bigcalm> There you go :)
<popey> Philips 234EL
<smittix> popey: Sorry better off here then https://twitter.com/smittytech/#/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FEt8N0SMH
<daubers> Myrtti: New laptop?
<bigcalm> My choice of album for the last 2 days: http://open.spotify.com/user/bigcalm/playlist/0GmiEYBq4vMumYIGeEkiN7
<bigcalm> I would 'crank it up', but Hayley has the day off and is still reading in bed
<smittix> heh gord
<bigcalm> I'm a good boy and wearing headphones
 * AlanBell dispatches some CDs to Belfast
<Myrtti> daubers: no, need to nuke my old and I've forgotten the admin password
<Myrtti> in related news: any Linux-y job openings in Cambridgeshire?
<Myrtti> I have and will look at jobsites but social networks work the best so asking here too :-P
<gord> Myrtti, always jobs going at canonical, not local to anywhere
<Myrtti> gord: I know, my application is in :-/
<popey> smittix: nice!
<gord> our HR department is always backlogged too ;)
<davmor2> gord, bigcalm: did you get home okay
<gord> davmor2, yes mum
<davmor2> gord: more important did it make a change :)
<gord> yeah was nice, would be nicer to find somewhere that's open to 6 though :)
<Myrtti> gord: you can always prod them for me
<Myrtti> whoa.
<Myrtti> I just did what I've not done... pretty much ever
<Myrtti> pressed the upgrade to newer ubuntu button in Update Manager.
<Myrtti> exciting
<davmor2> gord: indeed but I don't think there are that many places that offer the feature free
<bigcalm> davmor2: eventually. Train was packed despite it being 5 coaches long
<davmor2> bigcalm: nice
<bigcalm> davmor2: unlikely to attend next month sorry. Will be available for January's gathering though
<oimon> CUPS arggghh.
<oimon> that is all
<davmor2> bigcalm: shame on you ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I have that week as holiday and will be attending an xmas meal in the evening. Timings are a little squiffy :S
<bigcalm> Though I can't get too squiffy that evening as I then have to drive dan-saff for the ubuntu-uk xmas meal the next day
<shauno> If there's a prize for badly naming machines, I think I just founda  very strong contender
<shauno> we're being asked to update our JRE packages, and they've given us a url to get the corp image from.  it's hosted on http://trojan.$corp.com/
 * oimon LOLs
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<shauno> I wish I was kidding
<TREllis> 30
<TREllis> :)
<oimon> that's like downloading antivirus from herpes.domain
<shauno> especially since it's been done by mailshot instead of wsus.  so random out-of-the-blue emails asking us to click the big 'trojan' button.
<oimon> can you change your steam account login name? i am stuck with a lame one that somebody else chose for me
<bigcalm> Would somebody mind trying out a walk-though I just jotted down?
<bigcalm> http://www.myrant.net/2011/11/18/google-calendar-in-mozilla-thunderbird-on-ubuntu-11-10/
<gord> oimon, nope
<Myrtti> uhhuh
<oimon> :(
<oimon> i bought HL2 a few years back and the guy gave me his steam login too
<Myrtti> pressing the Super-key in the middle of upgrading from 11.04 to11.10 wasn't a great idea
<oimon> "ninjadeath", makes me sound like a 16yr old
<oimon> better than goatse or worse i guess
<Myrtti> that was painful
<smittix> heh has anyone seen the google robo-car? http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81755975/
<oimon> hmm i've played 42 mins of portal. i guess that means i didn't really like it
<bigcalm> 1 or 2?
<oimon> 1
<oimon> got it free
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> There's more of a story in 2
<oimon> in a previous life i would have played it a lot more i guess
<oimon> now i get the chance to play PES on the WII for 20 minute snippets
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: works right up to the point where it asks me for a password, then I have no idea what to use
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: my gmail username and password that I used to log into the google calendar page don't work
<bigcalm> gordonjcp: oh :(
<bigcalm> I set this with my google apps account
<bigcalm> gordonjcp: thank you for testing it for me though :)
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: my mistake, http vs. https
<gordonjcp> it works fine
<bigcalm> \o/
<gordonjcp> in "Calendar Settings" you need to click on the name of the calendar to get the details page up
<bigcalm> You do?
<bigcalm> I only have one calendar on this particular account and it shows the Calendar ID at the bottom of the page upon clicking Calendar Settings
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> Feel free to leave comments on the blog post :)
<Myrtti> I need more nifty stickers
<Myrtti> just pulled my MeeGo and Nomovok stickers from my old laptop
<Twinkletoes> .
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: end of an era...
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Iain Cuthbertson] Google calendar in Mozilla Thunderbird on Ubuntu 11.10 - http://www.myrant.net/2011/11/18/google-calendar-in-mozilla-thunderbird-on-ubuntu-11-10/
<bigcalm> Gah, that confused me for a moment. Keep forgetting that I'm on there :)
<gordonjcp> argh
<gordonjcp> bloody maximised windows
<gordonjcp> why has 11.10 shipped with so many weird bugs like that?
<Myrtti> gordonjcp: indeed
<hoover> cheers all
<daubers> Hmmm.. just had captain obvious and captain can't be bothered looking at the damp issues in the flat
<davmor2> daubers: let me guess, "oh, that's damp", "oh, well it's not my flat I don't care" :)
<daubers> Cpt Obvious -> "There's a lot more humidity at the back of the building" me-> "Yes, that's what I've been telling you for the past few weeks from my sensor readings" captain can't be bothered -> "Well you must be causing it, I don't see why I should do anything about it"
<daubers> Turns out the people who moved out from down stairs are suing over damage caused by the damp issues \o/
<davmor2> daubers: nice
<daubers> landlord still doesn't think there's an issue
<czajkowski> jpds: ping
<DJones> Thought for the day "Whatever you do today, do it 100%, unless you're giving blood"
<gordonjcp> :-D
<dwatkins> in which case, give it 110%?
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod hello
 * AlanBell will have to get another place booked http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
<JGJones> Hey all -
<JGJones> Been trying to figure out how to sort out my wireless on the Dell laptop...it comes with an Intel 4965agn (open source driver) but since moving to 11.10 - it's pathetically slow - 1Mbs or less.
<JGJones> However got a Sony laptop with the same wireless model and it's faster (but still not very fast but at least it's faster than the broadband)
<awilkins> Grarrrrgh
<daubers> AlanBell: Don't book another seat! Someone can have my 2. House buying process has been accelerated, hence no money now
 * daubers changes his status on the thing if launchpad will let him in
<AlanBell> ok, good news on the house, not so great news on the meal :(
<AlanBell> it should let you change the status to not attending
<daubers> AlanBell: Have done now
<AlanBell> great
<daubers> AlanBell: I'll try and make the london happy hour instead
<awilkins> I just love it when the risk register includes "Have lost 50% of development team".
<DJones> There is a converse to that, 50% of the Dev team have left, so the remaining 50% have been able to fix what the others left broken
<awilkins> Alas, the guys who write the dreadful code don't work for us.. and 50% of our dev team is 2 people. They left mostly because of the dreadful code, methinks.
<awilkins> Ah well, the nervous breakdown will be relaxing.
 * awilkins wubbles a bit
 * daubers remembers the days when if 50% of the dev team had left, he'd have wondered who had sawn off his legs
<bigcalm> o.O
<gord> anyone happen to know if i can get nautilus to just give me a listview all the time?
<gord> fed up of this icon view
<jpds> gord: Edit â Preferences â List View ?
<gord> jpds, right that does it for that folder, but not everything
<gord> its like being back on windows
<popey> CTRL+2 is a handy shortcut
<daubers> is it not a gconf thing?
<gord> gsettings now, but I've no idea
<daubers> Seems to be somewhere http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.svn/339471
<gord> nevermind found something in the preferences :) didn't even know nautilus had preferences
<awilkins> Windows has that preference too. I can't understand people who use icon view
<awilkins> Or people who don't immediately turn off "hide known file extensions"
<davmor2> gord: that's cause you just ain't 1337 enough to love it ;)
<jpds> gord: That's what I said?
<gord> jpds, yeah, but i thought you meant the menu option
<Adriannom> if i build a new machine, can i put a hd with an existing ubuntu install in it?
<mgdm> Adriannom: Generally I've got away with that
<oimon> me too
<DJones> You can do, I've swapped hdd's between two machines of exactly the same model/hardware without issue
<bigcalm> Unless you are putting a 64bit install into a 32bit machine, should work
<Adriannom> it's 64bit to 64bit, but totally different hardware
<oimon> i moved an XP install from an intel machine to amd yesterday. hoop jumping was required
<Adriannom> and both amd
<bigcalm> Should be ok
<bigcalm> Try it :)
<oimon> Adriannom: what graphics cards do they hav
<Adriannom> i already did try it, got errors... just wanted to know what the likely scenario was
<oimon> what was teh error?
<Adriannom> gave up waiting for root device
<oimon> sata disk?
<Adriannom> then puts me in an initramfs prompt
<Adriannom> yup, sdd
<oimon> check the bios settings also
<Adriannom> yeah good point :)
<Adriannom> an animated bios ;o
<Adriannom> just what i needed
<diplo> Guys quick general question, if you are running squid in transparent mode, and stop the service squid should all requests go through normally ?
<Adriannom> maybe the sata cable is faulty..
<diplo> I can't think straight at this time of day after a big meal at lunch time
<diplo> :P
<mgdm> diplo: No
<diplo> So what other issues might occur mgdm ?
<mgdm> diplo: if you kill Squid you kill all web access
<diplo> So if the route to the internet is via 192.168.1.1 on the PC's we just need to redirect traffic out
<mgdm> you need to undo whatever's making it run in transparent mode
<mgdm> be it iptables or whatever
<diplo> heh just did a iptables -L
<diplo> Working though it now
<Adriannom> argh
<Adriannom> mobo doesn't support ahci
<Adriannom> does that matter?  i don't even know what ahci is for ;)
<KrisDouglas> Adriannom, AHCI is a type of interface used for more modern drives
<Adriannom> will my ssd suffer if my mobo doesn't support it?
<KrisDouglas> I wouldn't have thought so, so long as your OS supports trim and your board is at least 3Gb/s
<Adriannom> ok cool
<KrisDouglas> Once loaded into Ubuntu I think there is something you have to add to your File System Table to enable TRIM
<Adriannom> yeah i'll read up on trim
<popey> discard
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/18903/how-to-enable-trim
<KrisDouglas> yeah discard, thanks popey. Couldn't find the article on the drive in my server.
<Adriannom> thanks
<Adriannom> "gave up waiting for root device" doesn't go away when i type "exit" like google suggests
<Adriannom> so, hmph
<Adriannom> nah this is pointless, i guess i'd better do a clean install
<Adriannom> thanks for helping guys
<denny> heyla
<denny> you know you're meant to be able to drag windows between workspaces on the workspace switcher in gnome classic?  I can't do that.  Could on first boot (just reinstalling due to a disk failure), but couldn't on second.  Any idea what might be causing that?
<denny> I also can't drag windows into a new order on the window list applet on the panel
<Adriannom> i've had that stop working randomly too
<denny> ...
<denny> and I just tried to drag my panel and it's vanished, heh
 * denny looks bewildered
<denny> how am I supposed to get that back now?  :)
 * denny runs gnome-panel in a terminal, panel reappears
<denny> cute
<denny> on the wrong screen
<denny> cute  :)
 * denny makes a new panel on the centre monitor, drags everything onto it bit by bit
<Azelphur> Fun javascript/CSS question. I have a mibbit widget on my site and would like to create a full screen button. So I want the iframe to go full browser size, but not reload the iframe. Is it possible?
<denny> try asking in #web maybe
<Azelphur> will do :D
<bigcalm> Using jQuery you could use something like: $('#iframeID').width($(window).width());$('#iframeID').height($(window).height());
<Azelphur> bigcalm: yea I've been trying to do something similar to that but it ends up being constrained to the content area on my website
<Azelphur> rather than actually full screen
<bigcalm> Azelphur: is the web browser full screen?
<Azelphur> bigcalm: don't see the relevence but no :p
 * bigcalm lets you ask elsewhere then
<Azelphur> the browser window size isn't relevant surely, I only want to go full screen relative to the browser
<Azelphur> just using the full size of the browser window
<Adriannom> Azelphur, won't height: 100%; work?  you'll need every parent container, including body, to have height: 100%; too
<mgdm> Azelphur: you might need to absolute position it
<Azelphur> Adriannom: ah that's a good idea, looping through all the divs in the page and 100%ing them
<mgdm> Azelphur: that way it comes out of the normal flow of content, so you don't need 100% on everythjing else
<mgdm> I wouldn't do that
<Adriannom> yeah mgdm is right
<Azelphur> ok
<jutnux> Evenig
<jutnux> Evening
<mgdm> or position: fixed, perhaps
<Adriannom> either that or it doesn't matter, it depends what else is on the page really
<popey> gord: what capacity is your ac100? is it 8GB?
<popey> oh they all have 8
<Daviey> popey: mine has 8
<gord> yeah
<popey> one appears to be on the way to my house
<AlanBell> hope you are all celebrating world toilet day tomorrow
<TheOpenSourcerer> And how would one do that exactly AlanBell?
<AlanBell> I am told there will be someone dressed as a toilet walking round Farnham
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hah
<TheOpenSourcerer> Do we know them?
<AlanBell> don't think so
<TheOpenSourcerer> Shame.
<TheOpenSourcerer> That would have made good sporting entertainment
<AlanBell> http://www.worldtoilet.org/WTD/toolkit_15.html
 * popey is beering in farnham this evening
<popey> with humans
<TheOpenSourcerer> Are you popey?
<popey> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> Know where abouts?
<popey> lemme check mails
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sometimes I end up at the Cobbett
<popey> no venue specified
<popey> so no idea
<TheOpenSourcerer> NM - Have a nice evening. If I get into town I will ping you.
<popey> I'll text you where i am when i am there
<popey> your number ends in 6505?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think I shall take a couple of Naga chillies down to my local later. :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> No
<AlanBell> 195
<AlanBell> mine ends in 190
<popey> oh, i dont have your number then
<AlanBell> rest is the same
<TheOpenSourcerer> you do now.
<popey> i had bells
<popey> odd
<popey> i have both now
<popey> ta
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think that was my old number.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway. TTFN. Have a nice w/e everyone.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - drool: http://crave.cnet.co.uk/cartech/jaguar-xkr-s-convertible-pics-show-off-powerful-drop-top-jag-50006144/
<popey> I have taken to ending facebook chats with "END OF CONVERSATION"
<popey> so there is complete clarity
<popey> people know I have walked away and am not ignoring them
<bigcalm> Too many Alans
<TheOpenSourcerer> There is NEVER enough Alans
<gord> i hear too many alans spoils the broth
<AlanBell> only if they put nagas in it
<dwatkins> popey is wise, but didn't end this conversation ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://twitter.com/#!/opensourcerer/status/137595345017372673 mwah ha ha
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wow this is cool. Not sure what I'd do with one but cool nevertheless: http://blog.laptopmag.com/usb-stick-contains-dual-core-computer-turns-any-screen-into-an-android-station
<MartijnVdS> So.. the internet will explode soon I heard?
<dwatkins> what does one do with chillies in a pub?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: eat them?
<dwatkins> raw? on their own (but with beer)?
<MartijnVdS> oh.. no.. as part of some fewd
<dwatkins> ahh
<popey> Our water supply has stopped
<daubers> evening
<dogmatic69> o/
<dwatkins> bah, popey, hope it's just a glitch
<popey> me too
<Adriannom> hi.  still having problems with this ssd in the new machine build.  i get the error "gave up waiting for root device" when i try to boot.  if i wait and type exit the error repeats.  if i load grub and try recovery mode i get a blank screen forever.  i also tried deleting the UUID from grub and the error persists.  i've booted a livecd and i can't actually see any disks under the sata host adapter.  i can see the dis
<Adriannom> k in the bios though.  any ideas what i could try next?
<Adriannom> when i say i can't see any disks i'm looking at the disk utility
<dwatkins> What bus is it on, Adriannom?
<dwatkins> I've had similar issues with a CF Card on a non-DMA adapter, I had to get a new adapter which supported DMA.
<bigcalm> Looks like I've hit the 7pm slow down
<Adriannom> damnit
<Adriannom> <Adriannom> dwatkins, i have no idea how to answer that question.  here's the board though: http://www.ebuyer.com/221178-asrock-n68c-s-ucc-geforce-7025-socket-am2-vga-out-6-channel-audio-n68c-s-ucc
<dwatkins> what kind of SSD is it, SATA?
<Adriannom> yes
<Adriannom> dwatkins, http://www.ebuyer.com/268239-ocz-60gb-agility-3-ssd-2-5-sata-iii-read-525mb-s-write-agt3-25sat3-60g
<dwatkins> Does it work ok if you just boot from USB and mount it?
<Adriannom> i booted from livecd and can't mount it.  /dev/sda1 doesn't exist apparently
<dwatkins> if you're booting from USB, the disk references may well change compared to running the OS off a hard disk or other medium, /dev/sdXn names are dynamic
<MonsterKiller> Hey, tried to install python3 and got an error to do with mtop: http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpeeesewejeezhj
<dwatkins> does the disk work ok as a secondary disk in this or another machine? I'm wondering if it's actually faulty.
<MonsterKiller> not sure whats wrong :/
<Adriannom> dwatkins, oh... how do i find out what device it might be under?
<Adriannom> it was working totally fine in my old machine
<Adriannom> just swapped it over today
<dwatkins> Adriannom: your can use this command at the terminal to see all disc-like devices: cat /proc/partitions
<dwatkins> the size should give-away which one it is, it's probably in bytes, though
<Adriannom> only loop0
<Adriannom> which i'm guessing is the live cd
<dwatkins> yeah
<dwatkins> do you know if the SATA adapter on the motherboard is supported?
<Adriannom> :s i hope so
<Adriannom> i didn't even know that could be an issue
<Adriannom> oh you mean does ubuntu support the sata adapter
<MartijnVdS> it should be
<MartijnVdS> SATA adapters are pretty generic pieces of hardware
<MartijnVdS> it might be disabled in the bios though
<Adriannom> shame there isn't a bios emulator online so that you could see what i'm seeing :|
<Adriannom> anything else to try in the livecd before i take another look at the bios?  it's just the livecd takes forever to load
<dwatkins> lspci
<Adriannom> ok
<dwatkins> see if it lists the SATA adapter
<Adriannom> mcp61 sata controller
<Adriannom> that it?
<dwatkins> no idea, but it might be
<dwatkins> also, check the motherboard manual
<dwatkins> you may have several SATA ports, e.g. there could be a separate RAIDed SATA adapter, and if it's disabled, you might have connected the disk to the wrong port
<Adriannom> there are 4 sata ports, it's in the primary
<dwatkins> I had 6 SATA ports on one motherboard, two were the same colour, the other four were a differencet colour
<dwatkins> ok cool
<Adriannom> nah they're all identical, in manual too
<dwatkins> that's a good sign, at least
<Adriannom> ugh
<Adriannom> found someone with the same mobo/ssd combo on ubunt forums and they had no joy
<Adriannom> they sent the ssd back, but i can't since i've had it a while
<Adriannom> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1687413.html
<dwatkins> bah
<dwatkins> at least you know it works in another machine, you might have luck with a different motherboard or a PCI/PCIx SATA card, assuming its not just a software problem.
<dwatkins> Not read the link yet, but other distros may have more luck
<Adriannom> heh
<dwatkins> does their dmesg output match yours, Adriannom?
<Adriannom> actually no
<dwatkins> also, is flashing the BIOS an option?
<Adriannom> there's no sda stuff in dmesg at all
<Adriannom> i guess so
<Adriannom> i'd rather not send stuff back for other stuff if i can help it
<dwatkins> can you actually see the disk identified in the BIOS ok?
<Adriannom> maybe that guy's ssd was actually faulty
<dwatkins> maybe
<Adriannom> yeah it's in there
<Adriannom> i'll boot to bios and check out some stuff
<dwatkins> ok, upgrade the BIOS and try other operating systems/distros
<dwatkins> g'luck
<Adriannom> thanks dwatkins
<Adriannom> it might actually be something pretty fundamental i'm missing in the bios
<dwatkins> try the IDE opton
<Adriannom> already am
<MonsterKiller> Hey, i installed python3 (ubuntu server), and im trying to compile something that needs python3 but it says "python3.pc not found or is wrong" could there be something wrong with the install?
<Adriannom> this is interesting
<dwatkins> some SATA cards/adapters have an option to have the... oh ok :)
<Adriannom> when entering bios, it's just hung when auto-detecting sataII_1
<MartijnVdS> maybe the port broke?
<Adriannom> trying another port
<dwatkins> good point MartijnVdS - or the cable
<Adriannom> think i have a spare somewhere
<Adriannom> i'll try that if this doesn't work
<dwatkins> if the disk is recognised in the BIOS with its capacity or manufacturer, I suspect it's more likely a setting somewhere, but still could be a failed hardware connection
<Adriannom> ok the cable and port change didn't change anything
<Adriannom> mostly it doesn't fail auto detecting the drive when i go into the bios
<dwatkins> what distro are you using? 11.04?
<Adriannom> and when i do get in it displays full manufacturer info and size and everyhing
<Adriannom> 10.04
 * dwatkins nods
<dwatkins> the dmesg should say if it's seeing the sata adapter and anytuhing on it
<dwatkins> got a sata disk to test?
<Adriannom> hm yeah i have a sata hdd
<dwatkins> that would rule out a simple hardware failure, and probably leave you being reasonably sure it's a compatability problem, then test with other OSs on USB
<Adriannom> yeah but the bios sometimes failing to recognise the disk is pretty stinky tbh...
<dwatkins> if you get desperate, you could always try resetting the settings in the BIOS
<Adriannom> you mean load bios defaults?
<dwatkins> yep
<Adriannom> there are a few defaults, i'll try them all
<Adriannom> ok i tried "performance defaults" and now it won't even boot
<Adriannom> :|
<Adriannom> by boot i mean power on, blank screen
<Adriannom> pfft
<Adriannom> how the hell do i get back from that?
<MartijnVdS> by resetting the bios
<AlanBell> Adriannom: can't get to bios even?
<MartijnVdS> usually by bridging 2 leads on the motherboard
<dwatkins> what is the monitor connected to?
<dwatkins> is there another dvi/vga port?
<Adriannom> AlanBell, monitor doesn't get a signal
<AlanBell> Adriannom: ick. What motherboard?
<Adriannom> vga only.  i could add a video card...
<dwatkins> pulling the battery out might help, but I'm guessing it's saved to flash memory whatever setting has caused the monitor not to get used at power-up
<Adriannom> AlanBell, http://www.ebuyer.com/221178-asrock-n68c-s-ucc-geforce-7025-socket-am2-vga-out-6-channel-audio-n68c-s-ucc
<dwatkins> how long did you wait?
<Adriannom> few minutes
<dwatkins> disconnect power, i.e. all leads from the power supply and take the battery out for at least a minute
<AlanBell> BIOS "Supports jumperfree"
<AlanBell> which doesn't sound all that great!
<Adriannom> ok i'll try
<AlanBell> might be a poke about in the manual job
<AlanBell> some kind of magic key to hold down at boot time or something
<Adriannom> oh ok, that worked dwatkins
<Adriannom> in fact, i think it might have some magic failsafe bios thing where it detects a number of failed boots then rescues you
<Adriannom> that's what appeared to happen anyway
<dwatkins> cool
<dwatkins> never underestimate the power of a random suggestion from someone travelling at 120 miles per hour through the yorkshire countryside ;)
<Adriannom> lol
<Adriannom> well, i've run out of ideas...  i'm guessing you guys have too
<Adriannom> i guess i might have to change the mobo
<dwatkins> you tested again since the reset?
<Adriannom> yeah same
<dwatkins> pastebin the dmesg?
<Adriannom> ok sure
<Adriannom> dwatkins, sorry, as i said, booting livecd takes like a million years
<dwatkins> no worries, I won't get to my destination for another hour and a half
<dwatkins> I have a good book, too
<Adriannom> what book?
<dwatkins> Second in the "Newsflesh" zombie trilogy: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Deadline-Newsflesh-Trilogy-Mira-Grant/dp/1841498998/
<Adriannom> heheh cool
<Adriannom> never read a zombie book
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: is that like pride and prejudice and zombies?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pride-Prejudice-Zombies-Romance-now-Ultraviolent/dp/1594743347/
<Adriannom> :P
<Adriannom> wonder if colin firth will star in the movie
<dwatkins> haha
<dwatkins> I like it - she doesn't just talk about the immediate panic, but what might happen years afterwards
<MartijnVdS> wut.. there's more: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sense-Sensibility-Sea-Monsters-Winters/dp/1594744424/http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sense-Sensibility-Sea-Monsters-Winters/dp/1594744424/
<dwatkins> interestin
<dwatkins> this book has an octopus in it
<Adriannom|droid> GRR
<Adriannom|droid> The cat just flying headbutted my drink into my laptop.....
<DJones> Adriannom|droid: Sounds like you need a new pet... Maybe a dog :)
<Adriannom|droid> Like I need more tech problems right now
<AlanBell> need a new drink too
<DJones> I'm watching a very weird film called "Machete"
<Azelphur> yay, my entire telephone exchange went down /again/
<denny> I have a great display glitch. I was saying in here earlier that my drag-n-drop doesn't work in the workspace switcher and window list applets?  It does.  But you have to drag one screen to the right, and then drop in the matching displaced location.  Go figure.
<DJones> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0985694/
<Azelphur> that's the 3rd time in a few months, seriously don't they have any form of quality control in the exchanges?
<DJones> This film has some well known names in it, Robert De Niro, Jessica Alba, Steven Seagull, Lindsey Lohan.... Go figure that
<denny> isn't Lohan a porn star?
<DJones> Don't know about that, but doped up smack head springs to mind
<Adriannom> cat 1, laptop 0
<AlanBell> oh dear
<Azelphur> !logs
<lubotu3`> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<Adriannom> dwatkins, http://pastebin.com/g4GAEX5D
<dwatkins> Adriannom: are you booting from USB or CD?
<Adriannom> cd
<dwatkins> I don't see a reason for the problem, unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any mention of the SSD in fact, but you might want to disconnect the CD-Rom if possible, and perhaps all other devices not needed for booting, just to rule them out
<dwatkins> can you try booting from USB with the CD-ROM disconnected?
<Adriannom> yeah actually cd drives can do some pretty weird things can't they
<DJones> Heh, comment in the film,the human intestine is 60 feet long, so "good guy" to escape cuts a blokes stomach open, grabs the intestine & jumps out of the windows swinging onto another floor.... WIERD to say the least
<dwatkins> I don't know if it's the cause, but those errors just make me think it's best to take it out of the equation
<Azelphur> mgdm: position fixed got it, ty
<Adriannom> i don't have a usb startup disk at the moment
<Adriannom> i'll have to sort one out
<Azelphur> sorry for the epicslow reply, but the people at BT felt the need to break the local telephone exchange for the 3rd time this year
<dwatkins> it's probably on a totally separate (IDE?) bus, but removing all non-used devices will help narrow the problem down
<dwatkins> there seems to be a problem with the drive or the disc in the CD-ROM drive from those errors, perhaps it's just an incompatabiltyity
<Adriannom> if it is a compatibility problem, what do you reckon, replace mobo or ssd?
<dwatkins> up to you, test with what you can get hold of, replace whichever is cheaper, I guess - the mobo seems to be a bit old
<dwatkins> I couldn't even find the driver download, and a new mobo will set you back less than a new SSD, I imagine
<Adriannom> oh really?  i guess i could just replace it anyway then
<Adriannom> just ordered the mobo
<Adriannom> ordered it late last night and it arrived this morning ;s
<Adriannom> they couldn't wait to get rid of it i suspect
<Adriannom> ok, i'm going to try the things you said, but i think that i'm going to leave mobo/ssd mysteries and cat/laptop annihilation alone for now and go and get really drunk
<Adriannom> i see no alternative
<Adriannom> thanks a bunch for all your help dwatkins, really appreciated :O)
<Adriannom> :)
<dwatkins> welcome :)
<dwatkins> if it's new, you might be able to send it back
<dwatkins> borrow another PC and test the SSD in that, or install a different distro or operating system to see if the issue is Ubuntu's drivers or an actual hardware compatability, perhaps
<czajkowski> aloha
<dutchie> hey czajkowski
<czajkowski> dutchie: ello long time no see
<dutchie> yeah, university keeping me busy
<Ray^e> hi
<dutchie> this week is a little less frantic, then there's only one more after that!
<dutchie> short terms are great :D
<AlanBell> we have one, maybe two places remaining for the christmas meal
<czajkowski> dutchie: you're the only college student I know who went to college and wasn't on irc :)
<AlanBell> !info kruler
<lubotu3`> kruler (source: kdegraphics): screen ruler for KDE. In component main, is optional. Version 4:4.6.5-0ubuntu1 (natty), package size 103 kB, installed size 412 kB
<dutchie> czajkowski: i have been on irc, just mostly in the channel with my college colleagues
<ali1234> didn't it used to be possible to share/link to a comment on g+?
<jutnux> Evening gents!
<AlanBell> ali1234: has to be a public comment I think
<ali1234> well it's a comment on a public post
<AlanBell> oh, I see, to a comment]
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/111049168280159033135/posts/XkVxezs1DZY
<ali1234> see arjan's reply
<AlanBell> I don't recall being able to link to comments
<ali1234> it's the loooooong one
<jutnux> Google Plus (L)
<Azelphur> Anyone know why I could be getting Call to undefined function imagelayereffect() in PHP, when that function is a stock PHP function
<jutnux> Do you have PHPGD installed Azelphur?
<jutnux> Never mind actually
<jutnux> It doesn't require it
<jutnux> (PHP 4 >= 4.3.0, PHP 5)
<Azelphur> jutnux: it does, says in the notes, and yea I do have it
<Azelphur> Note:Â This function requires GD 2.0.1 or later (2.0.28 or later is recommended).
<jutnux> Oh yes.
<jutnux> Didn't read that far
<Azelphur> hehe
<jutnux> Anyone watching CiN?
<ali1234> how do i get someone's name in the comment reply/highlight them?
<jutnux> ali1234, simply type their name.
<AlanBell> +the name
<jutnux> Or type the start of their name and press tab.
<jutnux> Oh you mean in G+
<jutnux> Fail :(
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> alanbell has the correct answer :)
 * AlanBell wonders whether to have more beer
<jutnux> Do you make your own beer or buy it AlanBell ?
<AlanBell> the beer I am considering is Stella, at room temperature
<denny> did the 'mark messages as read' delay config option disappear in Evolution?  anyone know a way to set it still, some CLI magic or something?  the default is way too slow for my taste
<AlanBell> I appear to be out of ales
<jutnux> Room temperature anything is disgusting
<jutnux> So I can't imagine Stella is very nice.
<AlanBell> red wine
<denny> guy I know who ran a few pubs said red wine is meant to be room temperature from when they didn't have central heating..  so a few degrees below usual room temperatures now
<jutnux> Don't really drink so can't comment on that!
<AlanBell> denny: apparently the real key to red wine is to decant it
<AlanBell> personally, I just drink it
<denny> :)
<Azelphur> Is there a PHP ppa to get you on the latest version of PHP?
<Azelphur> or some easy way to get a non-bricked PHP GD?
<ali1234> build it from source?
<Azelphur> ali1234: I guess, was hoping to not have to do that
<ali1234> php is horrible anyway
<ali1234> i would rather build it from source than write something using it
<jutnux> ali1234, cannot believe you just said that.
<AlanBell> php is pretty horrible
 * jutnux dies a little inside
<AlanBell> just has some useful apps that use it
<ali1234> phpmyadmin is a life saver
<jutnux> The new design is sexy!
<AlanBell> yeah, phpmyadmin is nice
<ali1234> can't think of any others though
<jutnux> NaviCat is good on Winslows.
<AlanBell> I use wordpress, vtiger, limesurvey, phpmyadmin (and phppgadmin a couple of times)
<AlanBell> and Joomla!
<jutnux> Is Drupal any good?
<ali1234> i only use phpmyadmin when someone tasks me to figure out why their monstrous pile of php hacks has stopped working
<AlanBell> but it scares me every time
<jutnux> What language do you prefer to you for server side web dev then AlanBell, ali1234
<ali1234> python
<AlanBell> jutnux: I like python, specifically the openERP framework for business applications
<Azelphur> jutnux: I really like Drupal :)
<ali1234> python for anything that isn't a device driver or extremely dependent on bitwise operations and pointers for speed
<jutnux> I like Python for desktop development.
<ali1234> and even the latter can be mostly done with numpy
<Azelphur> I like python too, if I was designing from scratch I'd be using Python
<AlanBell> I also think java and ruby are reasonably decent architecturally, but I can't be bothered to learn those right now
<Azelphur> but the web stuff / CMS stuff in Python just isn't anywhere near as mature as Drupal is
<jutnux> I still love PHP though
<jutnux> specifically Laravel.
<Azelphur> I'm not a PHP fan
<jutnux> for a framework that is
<ali1234> yesterday i learned that java has no unsigned types
<AlanBell> I use Alfresco which is a big fat lump of java, and I am doing a shapado project which is Ruby on Rails
<jutnux> CSS3 is amazing.
<ali1234> if you want to do unsigned comparison on two bytes you have to do ((a+0x100)&0xff) < ((b+0x100)&0xff)
<AlanBell> eww
<dutchie> ali1234: that seems, er, short-sighted
<ali1234> which implicitly casts them both to 32 bit
<ali1234> but that's OK, because in java, byte and short are both 32 bit anyway
<AlanBell> 2s complement is something you shouldn't really have to deal with in an actual language
<ali1234> also byte a = 0xff; gives a compile error
<AlanBell> that is electronic engineering, not programming!
<ali1234> so yeah, that's java
<jutnux> http://go.theregister.com/feed/www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/18/microsoft_patent_employee_monitoring/
<ali1234> as for ruby, there is too much punctuation. it makes the code unreadable
<ali1234> which i find odd for a language that is supposed to be meaningful when you read it out loud
<AlanBell> I have not read much of it yet, just had a bit of a fight with the config files and gem deployment system
<AlanBell> gems vs debs
<AlanBell> I will have to do the whole thing again with gems vs rpms in a week or so
<ali1234> if i look at a single line of code and i have no idea what it does that's generally a clue that the language sucks
<ali1234> C++ code that does a lot of operator overloading is pretty bad for that
<AlanBell> I discovered today you can have whitespace before a method in python, so you can do datetime .date .today() and it works
<ali1234> i didn't know that
<ali1234> but why would you want to do that other than to make the code unreadable?
<AlanBell> I have no idea
<ali1234> what about datetime. date. today()
<AlanBell> I saw it in a patch, and was trying to figure out what it meant
<ali1234> it means "i'm a douchebag and you should reject my patch" as far as i am concerned :)
<AlanBell> yeah, that works too
<AlanBell> datetime . date . today() as well
<ali1234> python is generally quite forgiving of extra whitespace as long as it isn't at the start of a line that isn't a continuation
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-19
<czajkowski> *yawns*
<MooDoo> hello all
<dwatkins> hi MooDoo
<Oldport> hii
<dwatkins> Hooray! I finally have a rooted Android phone :D
<MartijnVdS> w00t
<MartijnVdS> or should I say
<MartijnVdS> r00t
<SuprEngr> "Stephen Fry (2 minutes ago from Twitter for Mac) Ooh - a new Ubuntu distro. 11.10 - what larks."
<SuprEngr> [Good on ya, Mr. Fry]
<gordonjcp> SuprEngr: it is entirely possible that he has been working in some remote part of the world and has not had time to check Ubuntu-y things for a month
<AlanBell> http://twitter.com/#!/stephenfry
<SuprEngr> ;)
<SuprEngr> [he's probably looking for something "quite interesting" ;)
 * MartijnVdS usually likes stackoverflow.. but for some reason it's being overrun by people who can't read
<Myrtti> well that was anticlimactic
<MartijnVdS> ?
<Myrtti> I just unplugged my router from the phoneline and made it into a dumb access point just so I can use my old modem as a modem
<Myrtti> all the connection problems are gone.
<Myrtti> how disappointing.
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> You like connection problems?
<Myrtti> no, I like saving money
<Myrtti> I paid for that router that ended up being crappy
<MartijnVdS> ah
<Myrtti> the old one I didn't pay for
<MartijnVdS> that's annoying
<MartijnVdS> However.. it's good that it works now!
<Myrtti> I suppose I should be happy for my n-connectivity on wifi now
<Myrtti> I just have a feeling I could've gotten that cheaper
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: my DSL modem has gigabit ports.. but if I connect my gigabit switch I get >50% packet loss
<popey> Morning
<MartijnVdS> do now I have DSL modem -> 100mbit switch -> gigabit switch -> rest of network
<MartijnVdS> popey: \o
<czajkowski> chrisjrob: welcome
<AlanBell> morning all
<mattt> hello
<SuprEngr> o/
<popey> \o/
<popey>  minecraft 1.0 is finally here
<MartijnVdS> oh noes
<AlanBell> what platform would you use to build a simple like button or +1 service
<AlanBell> so a button you could put on any website page that anyone could press to say "I like this"
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: what do you mean? your own g+/fb competitor?
<daubers> Morning
<AlanBell> which would report back to a central server which might do a leaderboard of most liked stuff or something
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yes, but just the +1 button
<AlanBell> it will actually be the "hug" button
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: that would be a small web app.. simple database.. spam protection would be the hardest part
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you could run that on any web host you like
<AlanBell> I can host it easily enough
<MartijnVdS> I'd go for django then
<MartijnVdS> it's python, which is +1
<MartijnVdS> it's easy to learn, also +1
<MartijnVdS> and it comes with built-in database viewing tools, +1
<AlanBell> django is good, yes
 * AlanBell has the givehugs.net domain
<popey> you should have got givehu.gs
 * SuprEngr frantically registers takehugsback.net ;)
 * popey registers stabbystabbystabstab.net
<SuprEngr> :D
<MartijnVdS> popey: you want to make a -1 service, "stabs"?
<popey> yeah, its totally the opposite of hugs isnt it?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: akismet
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: yes, but still. Spam--
<AlanBell> someone has squatted givehu.gs
<popey> bummer
 * AlanBell checks variations
<czajkowski> gimmiehu.gs
<AlanBell> bighu.gs is available for $34.99
<AlanBell> lots of variations available great-big-hu.gs
<mattt> hugmedamm.it
<AlanBell> cuddl.es
<mattt> haha, nice
<ali1234> hey azelphur, do you want an easy 300 rep on askubuntu?
<Pr0ph3t> hi all
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/78869/graphics-cards-so-i-can-have-4-monitors
<AlanBell> cuddl/huggl/snuggl .es are all taken
<AlanBell> anyhow, I have a starting domain, can add a .gs later
<Pr0ph3t> do you have a link to a good guide I could use to connect through ssh to my ubuntu from Android?
<Pr0ph3t> something which you've used perhaps?
<AlanBell> Pr0ph3t: irssi connectbot
<AlanBell> in the marketplace
<AlanBell> you can set up key based authentication with it too
<AlanBell> I wonder if I can do something rather fun with the etherpad lite libraries and givehugs
<chrisjrob> morning czajkowski
<Pr0ph3t> thank you AlanBell
<MooDoo> you should be thanking him tomorrow ;)
<AlanBell> ?
<Pr0ph3t> is there also a guide on how to setup the ssh server on my ubuntu machine
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install ssh
<AlanBell> done
<MooDoo> AlanBell: ubuntu community appreciation day :)
<AlanBell> oh that!
<MartijnVdS> "U CAD"?
<MooDoo> yeah
<MooDoo> http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/11/ubuntu-community-appreciation-day.html
<MooDoo> or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UCADay
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: CAD? "an ill-bred man, especially one who behaves in a dishonorable or irresponsible way toward women."
<MartijnVdS> ?
<MartijnVdS> </dictionary>
<ali1234> i would just like to say that, as a contributor, a pat on the head is not what i am looking for
 * AlanBell pats ali1234 on the head
<MooDoo> ali1234: stuff you then ;)
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, I don't get it either
<MooDoo> oh it's just nice, come on
<AlanBell> don't worry, I am not going to get all bah humbug and argue against it
<ali1234> did anyone actually read that post by arjan on g+?
<AlanBell> yes
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: it's just that lots of people don't need to be told they're doing good work all the time
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: and some people are even put off by it
 * mattt has a very strong dislike for estate agents
<MartijnVdS> which Arjan?
<ali1234> what i want to hear right now is not "thanks for all your contributions" it is "this is how we are going to improve ubuntu for people with for than 5 seconds experience using a compouter"
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/111049168280159033135/posts/XkVxezs1DZY
<AlanBell> Arjan van de Ven's profile photo
<AlanBell> Arjan van de Ven
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: arjan van de ven from intel and meego/probably tizen now
<MooDoo> ok ok then, you all suck. :)
<mattt> oh cool, opsview are based in reading
<czajkowski> meh every day should be appreciation not just one day
<MooDoo> wow is this negative day today?
<mattt> czajkowski: we're not parents
<czajkowski> mattt: what has that got to do with it ?
<ali1234> i dunno about any one else but i'm like this all the time
<mattt> ali1234: me too
 * mattt blames the economy
<mattt> czajkowski: relax, it was a joke
<czajkowski> mattt: no it made no sense hence I was asking what it had to do with it
<czajkowski> am nice and relaxed with a cuppa tea on the couch
<czajkowski> :)
 * AlanBell is a parent
 * MooDoo is at work, so you lot suck
 * AlanBell wonders who the sucker is really
<mattt> czajkowski: it was a silly comment, had no depth to it :)
<czajkowski> ok
<MooDoo> ali1234: :p
<MooDoo> oops
<MooDoo> AlanBell: :p
 * AlanBell heads out to pick up http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190601857479&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:GB:1123
<AlanBell> got it for eldest daughter
<czajkowski> cool
<AlanBell> she doesn't like justin beiber so can have a loud one
<mattt> AlanBell: you say that now, until she discovers techno
<mattt> or even worse, dubstep :(
 * mattt sheds a tear for AlanBell
<MartijnVdS> heh I have a similar system :)
<brobostigon> :( bbc have ditched click again, on bbc news.
<Pr0ph3t> body crisis! *shakes his fist angrily*
<MooDoo> brobostigon: again?  why this time?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: it's still available to watch on the bbc site
<brobostigon> MooDoo: yes, i know, but i had it bookmarker and wanted to watch it, then, so alittle dissappointed as i have shopping etc to do this afternoon after lunch.
<dwatkins> stupid BBC, they're turning into Fox
<dwatkins> They'll be canning Doctor Who and turning it into an awful film next :(
<BigRedS> People who use several different Firefox themes: how do you tell which is which?
<BigRedS> I'm just poking around for themes/extensions to help with this, but I'd rather not need to install them in each profile
<ali1234> ... they look different?
<BigRedS> er, s/themes/profiles/ in the first line :)
 * AlanBell has a noisier house now
<AlanBell> still a place or two left for the christmas meal
<BigRedS> Ah! Using 'Firefox', 'Nightly' and 'Iceweasel' sort-of works
<jacobw> ++(bill)&ted;
<SuprEngr> oops, need help here: 3 mobile dongle will *not* allow conxn with 11.10 - all other Ubuntus fine except 11.10
<SuprEngr> [and confusingly, it's ok on Acer netbook's 11.10!]
<SuprEngr> ...don't know where to start to diagnose &/orget info to report bug
<BigRedS> SuprEngr: it'd be worth seeing what it's seen as in lsusb
<BigRedS> does it show up at all when plugged in?
<SuprEngr> BigRedS, pastebin was ready to go... will do
<BigRedS> so you can see that it's there and should be able to connect, but it can't, or you plug it in and it's as if it's not plugged in?
<BigRedS> I'll probably not be much use, though, I'm afraid
<SuprEngr> BigRedS, and yes it does... starts with "you are now reigstered on the home network"... and then follows with "modem connection disconnected"
<SuprEngr> [now doing lsusb]
<SuprEngr> http://paste.ubuntu.com/743260/
<SuprEngr> BigRedS, http://paste.ubuntu.com/743260/
<BigRedS> Ah, so it sees it properly, just can't use it
<SuprEngr> BigRedS, yup -spot on... I would put it down to a kernel bug in this release *if* the netbook had probs as well -it doesn't
<BigRedS> all I can think of is to check you're using the same modules for it, and any relevant config
<BigRedS> but I;ve no idea where/what that config is
<SuprEngr> [first thought was "ah... banshee again [11.04 Banshee used to kill the connection as soon as Banshee started] so I removed Banshee & put Rythymbox on instead -no difference
<SuprEngr> BigRedS, thanks for the thoughts anyway
<SuprEngr> lswlan
<elz89> SuprEngr: take a look at blacklisted hardware, it could be a simple case of removing the offending black mark.
<elz89> I seem to remember this being the case for a few 'broadcom' devices I have set up recently.
<SuprEngr> elz89, thanks... now doing
<riaz123> hi, greetings to all
<jacobw> hey riaz123 :)
<riaz123> dear jacobw: I have a problem can you please help me to solve that
<jacobw> !ask
<lubotu3`> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<MartijnVdS> cool: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=956977232793
<riaz123> actually i was inslatting ubuntu 11.10 and the files were fully downloaded from the internt but, after that my system suddenly shut down due to power problem then after that when I started the system, my previous version was also not running. Now what should i do?
<jacobw> reinstall
<SuprEngr> elz89, nope, nothing found [that lookks relevant] in any modprobe file
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: why does chrome do that?!
<elz89> SuprEngr: google is your friend, I can't remember off hand where the files are for blacklisted hardware.
<SuprEngr> elz89, me go hunt ;)
<jacobw> riaz123: without knowing exactly how far the installer got, its hard to know where to start with recovering the install
<jacobw> riaz123: a new install would take much less time
<riaz123> jacobw: actually some packages were probably installed because when I start the system I get a welcome (Login) screen but it does not provide TEXT FIELD to enter password
<jacobw> riaz123: are you aware than you can't see your password as *s as you type it?
<riaz123> jacobw can I update the previous install, because actually I had some data in previous version and I want to recover that (dont want to loose that) and for new install I dont have that much free hard disk space
<jacobw> riaz123: also, the install may well have not created a sudoer with a set password
<jacobw> riaz123: was the previous install all on one partition?
<riaz123> yes jacobw
<jacobw> riaz123: the installer won't have destroyed anything in /home
<riaz123> ok jacobw: then can I recover from there?
<jacobw> riaz123: yes
<riaz123> how? what to do?
<jacobw> riaz123: when you tried to reinstall, did you choose upgrade?
<riaz123> yes jacobwan:
<riaz123> jacobwan: I can still use the terminal
<riaz123> and can login from terminal
<jacobw> riaz123: ok, do `cat /etc/issue`
<riaz123> jacobwan: from root?
<jacobw> from anywhere
<riaz123> Yes jacobwan: when I entered this command I got "Ubuntu 11.04 \n\l"
<jacobw> ok, and 11.04 is what you were upgrading from?
<riaz123> yes jacobw:
<jacobw> ok, boot the installer and choose upgrade again
<riaz123> how?
<riaz123> jacobw: can you please explain
<jacobw> did you use the installer to upgrade or di you upgrade from the installation?
<jacobw> i.e. did you use a live cd or usb, or did you use update manager?
<riaz123> jacobw: I upraded from UPDATE MANAGER
<jacobw> ok, does `ping gb.archive.ubuntu.com` work?
<riaz123> jacobw: yes
<jacobw> excellent :)
<jacobw> do `do-release-upgrade` and follow its prompts
<riaz123> ok
<jacobw> it will upgrade you to the current release
<riaz123> yes jacobw: it is getting files
<jacobw> it'll ask a lot of questions, accept the default answers
<riaz123> ok
<SuprEngr> to those who offered help BigRedS, elz89 ;)  solved - not from google or modprobe - any SuprEngr Rule 1 - "what's the difference between what does work and what doesn't work"?
<SuprEngr> netbook has inbuilt wifi - main pooter uses a doinle
<SuprEngr> pull the dongle - eh voila, Â£ dongle is what I'm now talking to yawlz with
<jacobw> that doesn't sound like a solution :p
<SuprEngr> ...if it stops a boat sinking - it's a solution, if it stops a car crashing - that's also a solution... idf darn 3 dongle is in conflicyt with wifi dongle & only 1 is needed at a time - *that works*
<SuprEngr> ...now I can do diagnosise and report as bug as & whwn needed -  smug grin ;)
<SuprEngr> &damn these injured fingers - sorry about spelling
<MartijnVdS> SuprEngr: injured fingers?
<jacobw> :(
<SuprEngr> jacobw, joys of being a SuperEngineer! - see.. spelling ok when typed slowly ;)
<jacobw> rsi/carpal?
<MartijnVdS> he's an engineer, probably some bridge fell on his fingers or something ;)
<SuprEngr> ...end result of all this is: I can connect when wifi dies. It now makes 11.10 [and therefore 12.04] a viable option - smiles all round
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: i hate it when that happens :p
<SuprEngr> MartijnVdS, not a bridge - an ATM
<jacobw> ouch
<SuprEngr> [felt like a bridge tho :D
<MartijnVdS> SuprEngr: ah, you're one of those people that take ATMs out of walls using heavy equipment ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuprEngr: at night?
<MartijnVdS> SuprEngr: when nobody's watching
<SuprEngr> NO!
<SuprEngr> I soplve the probs after some nasty has done just that!
<SuprEngr> ...or tried ;)
<MartijnVdS> "ram raiding"
<SuprEngr> hey no beastiality involved
<SuprEngr> but hmmm
<MartijnVdS> ...
 * MartijnVdS decides it's time for some cleaning
<SuprEngr> MartijnVdS, what - do the sheep make a mess then?
<MartijnVdS> SuprEngr: I'm Dutch not Welsh
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<SuprEngr> MartijnVdS, ;)
 * SuprEngr logs off to switch back to wlan
<jutnux> Wow Linux Mint is loking nice.
<dwatkins> I can see why people are switching, what with its slick interface and not having Unity.
<jutnux> Umhm.
<jutnux> I might stay on the Mint bandwagon, will have to try out 12.04 though.
<jutnux> Ubuntu 12.04 that is.
<jutnux> Anyone ever used an Archos 101 tablet?
<monsterwizard> lol mint
<Myrtti> archos 101?
 * Myrtti googles
<jutnux> Myrtti: An Android tablet ;)
<jutnux> Cheap, but will do the job.
<Myrtti> right
 * popey is getting impatient, want my asus transformer to arrive
<MartijnVdS> popey: maybe it already has, but it's in disguise
<MartijnVdS> popey: Is there a car you don't know parked nearby?
<popey> hah
<dwatkins> "more than eats the pie"
<popey> also impatient waiting for my ac100!
 * popey is going all arm
<MartijnVdS> popey: BUY ALL THE ARMS
<MartijnVdS> ?
<popey> YES
<MartijnVdS> popey: so.. arms dealer?
<popey> hah
<jutnux> Is the AC100 a smartbook?
<popey> define smartbook âº
<popey> its a laptop with an arm based cpu
<popey> comes with android but can be made to run Ubuntu
<jutnux> I guess you're going to be doing that/ :P
 * MartijnVdS waits for a Galaxy Nexus from clove.co.uk
<MartijnVdS> they say they'll ship the 23rd
<MartijnVdS> speaking of arm devices :)
 * jutnux more importantly waits for tea.
 * MartijnVdS has green tea
 * jutnux meant the food tea, but has the usual tea tea also.
 * MooDoo waits for 5:30 so he can go home
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: you were thrown out for the day?
<dwatkins> Working at weekends sucks.
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: what dwatkins said, working weekend
<MartijnVdS> :(
<BigRedS> Are IDE drives /dev/sd? in newer kernels?
<popey> yes
<BigRedS> bah. People keep making my job harder.
<BigRedS> :)
 * BigRedS wanders off down /sys for a bit
<MartijnVdS> what's the problem?
<BigRedS> I need to replace a drive and I'm not sure whethere I want an IDE or a sata one
<MartijnVdS> you want sata
<MartijnVdS> really.
<BigRedS> but there's nothing oin /sys/bus/ide/devices and there are things in /dev/sys/bus/scsi, so I think it's sata
<BigRedS> yeah, I don't know if the motherboard does
<BigRedS> well, didn't
<popey> smart will tell you
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: lspci :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: hdparm will as well right?
<popey> smartctl in fact will give you the model number
<MartijnVdS> or
<popey> pass
<MartijnVdS> uhrm
<MartijnVdS> palimpsest
<popey> disk utility
<popey> that âº
<BigRedS> haha, ok, so there's millions of ways :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: BAJILLIONS
<popey> \o/ bajillions
<BigRedS> but I *liked* just lsing in /dev
<penguin42> BigRedS: I suggest a screwdriver
<popey> well
<popey> just go to /dev/disk/by-id
<popey> or by-uuid or whatever
<popey> the model number is in the folder name
<BigRedS> penguin42: but I need to get up to do that
<penguin42> nod
<daubers> Evening
<daubers> Just been to the first official kinda hack stuff meet at the Reading hackspace
<daubers> CnC mills rock
 * penguin42 gave a talk on ssh at ManLUG
<funkyHat> penguin42: did you mention awesome things like agent forwarding?
<penguin42> funkyHat: No, I skipped agent forwarding; I did mention use of the agent, and various bits of port forwarding, key setup and the like
<funkyHat> â¢)
<funkyHat> What I would like actually is a way to reattach a forwarded agent to stuff running in screen after reconnecting to a remote host. I think that might be wishful thinking though
<penguin42> you've got to be pretty careful with agent forwarding though
<funkyHat> Of course, I have it disabled by default and enabled for hosts that I own
<shauno> could be interesting for a few in here - the next round of stanford online courses have added a crypto one - http://www.crypto-class.org/
<jacobw> awesome
 * daubers sticks on some star trek and does some codeing
<jutnux> Star Trek? :P
<jutnux> THe movie was good, don't know about the TV shows though.
 * brobostigon keeps his moth shut, he is a memory alpha editor.
<brobostigon> mouth*
<daubers> jutnux: This is one of the movies
<daubers> Star Trek VI
<brobostigon> 11*
<brobostigon>  :)
<daubers> 11?
<brobostigon> the last ST film.
<daubers> Ah, I'm watching the Undiscovered Country. Been slowly going through them recently
<AlanBell> think I am going to try some music stuff
<daubers> music stuff?
<AlanBell> yes, I have a cupboard of CDs that I used to listen to
 * Seeker` loves the irony of simon pegg being in the 11th ST film
<AlanBell> so I stick CDs in, import them to banshee and I can play them on all the computers in the house somehow right?
<daubers> somehow :)
<GreenDance> Evening All
<AlanBell> I have only used banshee a couple of times, both when I clicked an ogg file of a podcast or UDS session and a minute later it started, then chewed up all processor cores and sent my laptop into thermal overload
<GreenDance> does anyone know the name of the package that contains the ubuntu wallpaper
<AlanBell> it has some making up to do
<GreenDance> i can't seem to find the right package that has the current default wallpaper in
<AlanBell> dpkg --search warty-final-ubuntu.png
<AlanBell> ubuntu-wallpapers: /usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png
<AlanBell> and it isn't a png it is a jpg
<AlanBell> the exension is a lie
<AlanBell> extension
<AlanBell> as is the warty bit really
 * AlanBell listens to pulp
<GreenDance> AlanBell: I'm trying to find the package though Alan, please
<GreenDance> @ http://packages.ubuntu.com/
<AlanBell> ubuntu-wallpapers
<AlanBell> as I did point out :)
<AlanBell> !info ubuntu-wallpapers
<lubotu3`> ubuntu-wallpapers (source: ubuntu-wallpapers): Ubuntu Wallpapers. In component main, is optional. Version 0.31.10 (natty), package size 3028 kB, installed size 3472 kB
<AlanBell> dpkg --search will go find what package a file on your system came from
<GreenDance> AlanBell: I installed that package, but the wallpaper looks a bit different from the one that's on the default cd-rom
<AlanBell> um, back up a bit, why wasn't that already installed?
<GreenDance> Because I'm running a minimal install
<GreenDance> The wallpaper I can see is purple, but like a different design from the one on the ubuntu cd-rom
<AlanBell> 11.04 and 11.10 were only slightly different
<GreenDance> oh
<GreenDance> you know what it is
<GreenDance> it's because i'm running the 10.04
<GreenDance> and as you say the wallpaper in 11.04 is different
<GreenDance> slightly
<GreenDance> by bad
<GreenDance> sorry
<GreenDance> :)
<GreenDance> Thanks AlanBell
<AlanBell> Stalking_Ocelot_by_Sayantan_Chaudhuri.jpg is better than the 11.10 default
<GreenDance> :)
<AlanBell> in fact the default ones have not been as good as the optional ones since Hardy
<AlanBell> so what is a DAAP server? (in banshee)
<GreenDance> I have no idea, sorry
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Access_Protocol
<mgdm> AlanBell: it's the network music sharing thing used by iTunes
<AlanBell> so do I need to set up a DAAP server?
<AlanBell> or can one banshee be a daap server to another?
<GreenDance> AlanBell: I've found a bug, it might be in Ubuntu, but I'm not sure, for people who have a host machine of Windows 7, install the latest Virtual Box, and Install Ubuntu 11.10 Minimal, Ubuntu 11.10 Minimal Installs fine, but won't boot, just hangs with a blue or black screen inside Virtual Box.
<mgdm> AlanBell: Rhythmbox serves and receives DAAP, I presume Banshee will be similar
<mgdm> AlanBell: just switch on two Banshees and each should see the other
<Seeker`> :O I spy a mgdm
<mgdm> ello :)
<GreenDance> Hi mgdm
<AlanBell> mgdm: they don't appear to be seeing each other
<mgdm> AlanBell: are they on the same network subnet?
<GreenDance> @AlanBell: I contacted the Virtual Box team, and they said it's not Virtual Box at fault.
<AlanBell> yes, I do have some problems with .local resolving though
<AlanBell> GreenDance: what is the link to the minimal install you are doing?
<AlanBell> I don't have windows, but I can try it in virtualbox on Ubuntu
<GreenDance> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
<AlanBell> download complete
<AlanBell> I love my broadband
<GreenDance> :)
<AlanBell> GreenDance: you set up the VM as ubuntu 64 bit right?
<GreenDance> yes
<AlanBell> installing now
<GreenDance> :)
<AlanBell> mgdm: do I have to set any preference somewhere to make the sharing magic turn on?
<AlanBell> GreenDance: I have a debootstrap warning about libselinux1 which is not good
<AlanBell> failing all over the place
<GreenDance> AlanBell: I've not had that problem
<GreenDance> AlanBell: It installs for me, but won't boot
<AlanBell> md5sum matches
<GreenDance> AlanBell: so for you it won't even install?
 * AlanBell tries again
 * GreenDance wishes AlanBell good luck.
<mgdm> AlanBell: I don't use Banshee so I've no idea
<mgdm> AlanBell: I would, however, presume so
 * AlanBell wonders if it is a Laney or directhex question
<AlanBell> otherwise my Katie Melua will be trapped on one computer
<mgdm> it's a plugin in RB which you have to enable
<AlanBell> http://www.sehofstede.nl/banshee-14-with-daap-music-sharing they removed the daap server
<AlanBell> that is sub optimal
<AlanBell> GreenDance: same errors
<AlanBell> can't install it
<GreenDance> hrm
<GreenDance> so there's another bug somewhere by the sounds of it
<GreenDance> I don't know what would be causing that
<AlanBell> no, it is very odd
<bigcalm> AlanBell: hello!
<bigcalm> AlanBell: who do I give my allergy information to?
<AlanBell> oh crikey!
<AlanBell> me
<AlanBell> I will pass it on
<bigcalm> Thank you :)
<bigcalm> I'd rather not have anaphylactic shock in the dark ;)
<bigcalm> Spinach is a BIG no no
<AlanBell> sabdfl was telling me how he went there and they mistook "allergic to shellfish" for "extra shrimp please"
<bigcalm> Which is a bugger
<bigcalm> Oh no :(
<bigcalm> Yeah, muscles will make me heave as well
<Myrtti> mussels
<bigcalm> Aye, them ones
<bigcalm> I likes cooked muscle
 * Myrtti makes a tick in her calendar
<bigcalm> Myrtti: correcting people's typos?
<Myrtti> bigcalm: I do confess I do smile every time I correct a native
<Myrtti> It may be a telling sign of how much amusement I've got in my life at times
<bigcalm> Myrtti: it's usual for non-natives to have a better knowledge of the language. At least a technical knowledge
<Myrtti> bigcalm: in this case I just wondered why muscles would make you heave
<Myrtti> :-D
<Myrtti> other than them being your own
<bigcalm> English is a minefield of different spellings having the same sound but meaning different things. As well as same spellings meaning different things depending upon context
<bigcalm> Take the lead
<bigcalm> Am I inviting you to some Pb or to show me the way?
<Myrtti> hehe
<Myrtti> talking of allergies and other food ... disabilities
<Myrtti> I cooked celery today
<bigcalm> Good in veggy soup
<Myrtti> I get a headache from smelling fresh celery and migraine from eating it
<bigcalm> :(
<Myrtti> the lentil stew I used it in for mirepoix was nice tho
<bigcalm> Cannabis does that to me :(
<GreenDance> AlanBell: I've tried it again on my setup, it installs for me, but will not boot.
<GreenDance> AlanBell: I wonder what would have changed from 10.04 to 11.10
<AlanBell> dunno
<AlanBell> tangerine isn't opening a daap TCP port on 3689 for me
<GreenDance> yikes, looking at wikipedia, theres 53 third-party distro's based on ubuntu
<GreenDance> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions#Ubuntu-based
 * BigRedS wonders if that genuinely is solving 53 different problems
 * BigRedS should probably be less cynical
<AlanBell> well tangerine does not appear to work
<directhex> the file plugin ought to work
<AlanBell> is that something to install? I can't see it in banshee preferences
<AlanBell> or do you mean pointing tangerine at the Music folder?
<AlanBell> that does not appear to work either
<AlanBell> ah, got something working locally now
<daubers> I do enjoy star trek :)
<AlanBell> it can't connect to itself over localhost, but it does locally discover itself
<AlanBell> and telling it to stop sharing just doesn't
<directhex> it's not listening on localhost, it's listening on your mdns IP
<AlanBell> surely people who listen to music get this stuff set up?
 * daubers just keeps his music on shared storage
 * BigRedS paid to make it somebody else's problem
<directhex> connecting to a daap share that isn't autodiscovered is a fool's errand. it's pretty much designed not to work like that
<directhex> because teh apples want it to be super easy
<directhex> and it's their spec
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> ooh, something has happened
<Myrtti> mpd â¥
<AlanBell> great, I now have the ability to stream UDS session recordings from my laptop to the one I want to use as a media server
<daubers> I have considered just feeding all of my suff to a dnla server and letting that sort it out
<AlanBell> yay, it works \o/
<AlanBell> that was weird
<Myrtti> I just realised I can free up space from my phone's memory card for more audiobooks now that I'm halfway uploading my music to Google Music by deleting music
<Myrtti> \o/
<Myrtti> although I suppose I could have done that earlier with using Spotify and all
<GreenDance> I'm watching PickTV (formally Sky3) there's a police programme on, some police force is still using Windows 2000, that's shocking.
<brobostigon> !info rar
<lubotu3`> rar (source: rar): Archiver for .rar files. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 2:4.0.b3-1 (natty), package size 554 kB, installed size 1188 kB (Only available for i386 amd64)
<AlanBell> jpds needs to tweak the lubotus into oneiric mode
<brobostigon> i was looking for debian sid package. :)
<GreenDance> Hi brobostigon  :)
<brobostigon> hi GreenDance
<brobostigon> ! rar unstable
<brobostigon> !info rar unstable
<lubotu3`> rar (source: rar): Archiver for .rar files. In component non-free, is optional. Version 2:4.0.b3-1 (unstable), package size 555 kB, installed size 1180 kB (Only available for i386 amd64)
<GreenDance> !info schools
<brobostigon> :)
<lubotu3`> Package schools does not exist in natty
<brobostigon> win 19
<AlanBell> fail 20
<GreenDance> !info edubuntu
<lubotu3`> Package edubuntu does not exist in natty
<AlanBell> !info edubuntu-desktop
<lubotu3`> edubuntu-desktop (source: edubuntu-meta): educational desktop for Ubuntu. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.90 (natty), package size 2 kB, installed size 48 kB
<AlanBell> it is a metapackage
<GreenDance> :)
<brobostigon> question, why is rar under non-free in debian? i thought it was an open algorithem.
<MartijnVdS> yes but the rar tool itself is non-free
<MartijnVdS> there's unrar-free - Unarchiver for .rar files
<brobostigon> ah, i see.
<MartijnVdS> \oi/ .tar.xz btw ;)
<brobostigon> so it is a dfsg version of that non-free rar tool.
<MartijnVdS> just the unrar bits
<GreenDance> question, the default display drivers in ubuntu, are they "free software"?
<AlanBell> yes
<brobostigon> !info unrar-free unstable
<lubotu3`> unrar-free (source: unrar-free): Unarchiver for .rar files. In component main, is optional. Version 1:0.0.1+cvs20071127-1 (unstable), package size 20 kB, installed size 104 kB
<AlanBell> there are things that make it easy to install the non-free drivers
<AlanBell> directhex: any idea if there is a way to get tangerine to scan for new tracks without killing the daemon and restarting?
<GreenDance> does the linux kernel contain non-free things in?
<MartijnVdS> only if you put them there (nvidia, ati drivers, some bits of firmware from all kinds of hardware)
<BigRedS> that depends a little bit on your definitions of 'free' and 'kernel', but generally no
 * GreenDance learns :)
<BigRedS> I've seen definitions bent out of the norm to argue that it does, but by all definitions that don't exist entirely to argue that it's non-free, it's completely free.
<AlanBell> if you add non-free stuff it taints the kernel (sets a taint flag in it)
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loadable_kernel_module#Tainting
<penguin42> GreenDance: There are interesting questions about firmware blobs, but they are now pretty seprate from the kernel
<GreenDance> :)
<AlanBell> listening to two things at once makes a surprising amount of sense to me
<BigRedS> is there a dotdeb equivalent for ubuntu? I want php 5.3 on Lucid
<AlanBell> ppa is I guess the equivalent
<BigRedS> oh yeah
 * BigRedS is having a simple day today
<AlanBell> dunno if there is one for that
 * AlanBell is enjoying the open source procurement thread on the list
<BigRedS> Ah, I'm tempted to just see if the php5.3-on-lenny dotdeb repo breaks things on lucid. I'd image it'd be fine
<BigRedS> Ah yeah. Handy distraction from work :)
<DJones> BigRedS: Does this help https://launchpad.net/~zulcss/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=lucid
<BigRedS> DJones: yeah, ta. Just trying to find one by someone with an @canonical.com address - customer distrusts things which aren't companies
<BigRedS> (except debian, but I suspect that's because nobody has told him)
<DJones> I think that one was a canonical address
<BigRedS> yeah, it does :)
<BigRedS> cheers!
<DJones> Just found this as well
<DJones> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/php5
<AlanBell> BigRedS: that is Chuck
<BigRedS> DJones: oh!
<BigRedS> hm, I'll clean up this apt configuration a bit first and see what's what
<DJones> That packages.ubuntu version would suggestthat 5.3 is in the security repo
<BigRedS> There's a bunch of pinning to karmic, and all that's failing now. I'd not thought to recheck the lucid repos
<AlanBell> BigRedS: http://planet.ubuntu.com/ see all those odd pictures with the bloke in a blue tshirt gimped onto various locations?
<AlanBell> that is zulcss
<AlanBell> hope your customer likes that
<mgdm> whut le eff
<BigRedS> Ah. I might not show him that
<BigRedS> :)
<AlanBell> I have no comprehension of the meaning of the meme
<BigRedS> yeah, once I removed all the pinning bodges, suddenly I can have 5.3 straight outta the repos. Ta DJones !
<mgdm> Whee
 * mgdm is poking at a PHP library
<AlanBell> doesn't appear to be any parental controls or age restriction stuff in the daap protocol
 * mgdm watches PECL 'upgrade' a PHP extension
<mgdm> except I know for a fact taht the version it's installing is older, because I wrote the ext, and it's just blatted the compiled-from-git one :)
<GreenDance> AlanBell: is there a command line command to set backgrouns?
<GreenDance> background*
<BigRedS> mgdm: I'm not sure you've really got cause for complaint there :)
<mgdm> hehe
<AlanBell> GreenDance: probably, but I don't know what it is
<BigRedS> GreenDance: I'd imagine gconftool can do it
<BigRedS> That seems to be the tool to turn to if you want to interfere with Gnome's settings from the command line
<shauno> it appears to be gsettings for things which are gnome3-based
<shauno> eg, gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.background picture-uri file:///path/to/mybackground.jpg
<GreenDance> Thank You
<shauno> (can't promise that works, I haven't tried lately)
<GreenDance> it's gconftool :)
<GreenDance> Hey, I've installed network-manager-gnome but it didn't appear in the gnome panel, does anyone know why please?
<AlanBell> are you using gnome panel or the unity indicator bar
<brobostigon> !info nm-applet
<lubotu3`> Package nm-applet does not exist in natty
<GreenDance> AlanBell: gnome-panel
<AlanBell> nm-applet is in network-manager-gnome
<AlanBell> have you run nm-applet?
<GreenDance> how do i run that please?
<AlanBell> nm-applet &
<brobostigon> alt + f3
<brobostigon> alt + f2
<brobostigon> the latter.
<GreenDance> nothing happens :(
<brobostigon> run nm-applet from terminal see what happens.
<GreenDance> nm-applet is already running, warning constructor couldnt initalize the d-bus manager
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
<AlanBell> that will fix it :)
<brobostigon> AlanBell: may i ask, under what presumption? how will that metapackage fix it? ie, will it simply think somthing is missing and replace it? which is what it would dpo.
<AlanBell> brobostigon: GreenDance is starting from the minimal iso and appears to be putting a desktop together bit by bit
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ah, so yes, things would be missing, i must have missed that, sorry.
<AlanBell> GreenDance: I would try killing the running nm-applet and running it again, if you just want that running
<BigRedS> Hm. OO.o forum move, 200K posts and 45K users
<BigRedS> 4 posts per user?
<AlanBell> lots of lurkers
<AlanBell> lots and lots of single posters
<BigRedS> yeah, I suppose. Just seems really low
<BigRedS> and, probably, they've taken all the users but only the last N years of posts
<AlanBell> it does, not sure how it compares to other forums
<brobostigon> it is certainly weird the result you get if you google my nick.
<BigRedS> the only forum I'm a member of has 955 posts per member over four years or so. But it's probably an unusually small community
 * GreenDance loves linux :)
 * brobostigon loves BeOS and haiku :)
<GreenDance> brobostigon: a metapackage forces another package to install, can i break the link, as when i try to uninstall the other package it wants to also remove the first metapackage
<brobostigon> GreenDance: in theory yes, if you try to remove something that is wihtin said metapackage it will try and remove the whole thing.
<AlanBell> err, no
<AlanBell> it will remove the metapackage
<AlanBell> but not all the other bits of it
<brobostigon> that was my understanding, i have never tried.
<brobostigon> ah,
<brobostigon> i was partly right.
<brobostigon> sorry,
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-20
<AlanBell> it can get a bit more complicated than that depending on what you are removing and what the interdependencies are
<GreenDance> good night everyone
<AlanBell> night o/
<brobostigon> night o/
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> can someone please suggest me about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-November/254345.html ?
<kaushal> how do i run strace dpkg ?
<BigRedS> kaushal: the command is strace, you probably want to look at   man strace  to see the ways of invoking it
<kaushal> BigRedS: hi again
<kaushal> apologies got disconnected
<kaushal> Any clue ?
<kaushal> BigRedS: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-November/254320.html
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: what's the actual problem you're having?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: just posting random mailing list posts won't really help...
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: yeah sure
<kaushal> i am unable to kill dpkg process
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: can you post the output of "ps faux" to a pastebin?
<kaushal> sure
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/743962/
<MartijnVdS> the processes are already dead ("Ds")
<MartijnVdS> Is there NFS or sshfs or some other remote file system on this machine?
<kaushal> nope
<kaushal> so sshfs ?
<MartijnVdS> is the disk OK?
<kaushal> how do i check it ?
<kaushal> for sshfs
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: "mount"
<MartijnVdS> it'll show all mounted file systems and their types
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/743965/
<MartijnVdS> xfs
<MartijnVdS> shouldn't be a problem
<kaushal> How do i purge it ?
<MartijnVdS> last thing I'd check before just rebooting (Which will fix it 100% sure :)) was dmesg
<MartijnVdS> is there anything about the file system being broken in dmesg
<kaushal> i do not have option about reboot
<kaushal> nothing
<MartijnVdS> I think a reboot is the best solution - finding out what dead processes are sleeping .. no idea
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: how about strace
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: that doesn't work on dead processes
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> so dead means zombie ?
<kaushal> i mean defunct
<MartijnVdS> defunct, yes
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> but it will be denoted by Z and not Ds ?
<MartijnVdS> it can't be really removed from the process table because it's in uninterruptible sleep
<MartijnVdS> the moment that gets fixed, it'll be properly dead
<kaushal> as per man ps
<kaushal> so zombie process are denoted by Z or Ds ?
<kaushal> I mean defunct
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: what's the output of "lsof -p x" (with "x" replaced with the dpkg pid(s))
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: http://blog.notreally.org/2008/02/10/tricks-to-diagnose-processes-blocked-on-strong-io-in-linux/
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/743979/
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: I don't see anything strange in those..
<MartijnVdS> I think a reboot might be the only option (and a hardware check, these things don't happen normally)
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: can you point me to some docs about various Process states in ps table
<kaushal> although man page does not help much
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: thanks
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: can partner repos be integrated with local ubuntu repos ?
<kaushal> I am using debmirror
<MooDoo> morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<Myrtti> I'm trying to eat my cupboards empty for some reason, or atleast try to get rid of soon to go out of date stuff
<Myrtti> I didn't remember I had hazelnut Options sachets
<AlanBell> still a place (possibly 2) for the christmas meal folks
 * Myrtti feels sad for not being able to attend
<popey> Morning
<Seeker`> o/
<nigelb> Morning popey!
<nigelb> Wait, isn't it evening?
<AlanBell> morning nigelb
<nigelb> Ah right. I'm slightly easterly than normal :)
<nigelb> Its 6 pm here
<AlanBell> how is KL?
<nigelb> It is amazing!
<AlanBell> been up the petronas towers?
<nigelb> Mozcamp just got over!
<nigelb> I'm going to go tomorrow morning
<nigelb> Tonight, we'll just roam around the Towers
<nigelb> Tomorrow I'll try to get on the walkway
<AlanBell> scary!
<Myrtti> keep away from the hanging lights
<nigelb> heh
<nigelb> ok, its party time. We have about 6 hours of time to party! Laters everyone :)
<AlanBell> o/
<daubers> Morning
 * Seeker` has been on registered on freenode for 5 years today :O
<Myrtti> I'll reach my seveth year next month
<Myrtti> so much wasted time and effort
<dwatkins> There must also be good things about it, though.
<Myrtti> true, I should try harder to find good things, today was a first time in a long time there was actual sunshine
<dwatkins> we took delivery of a new fridge yesterday, but the landlord screwed-up and ordered one about 2/3rds the required size, but at least we don't have to put up with a noisy fridge any more.
<mattt> sun?  there's no sun to be found anywhere around here
<Myrtti> expecting first snow next week
<dwatkins> We tend to get snow in January in Edinburgh.
<dwatkins> I'd best get my parking permit sorted out so I can just take the bus to work each day, then it's someone else's problem to warm and de-ice the vehicle ;)
<Myrtti> should I install something special to access my samba shares through nautilus?
<dwatkins> Like a christmas metacity theme? ;)
<dwatkins> I thought you could just go to a samba:/host/directory style address with it
<Myrtti> "Unable to mount location: Failed to retrieve share list from server"
<dwatkins> oh, it's smb://delta/mp3
<gordonjcp> my landlord reminded me that it's about time to get the boiler serviced
<gordonjcp> by the simple method of getting his son (who is a heating engineer) to pop down from the farm with his tools
<gordonjcp> and I've got my 100kg of paving slabs ordered for the winter
<gordonjcp> since it doesn't look like I'll be getting a front wheel drive van before december is out
<dwatkins> shouldn't the landlord just service the boiler and install paving slabs?
<mattt> Myrtti: snow?  wait, where?
<mattt> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/mi80x/give_me_that_one_command_you_wish_you_knew_years/ <-- disown, what a beauty
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: I live in a farm cottage, my landlord is the farmer
<dwatkins> mattt: yeah, I was reading that thread, and thought the exact same thing :)
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: one of his sons is a heating engineer and takes care of the boiler etc, his other son runs a building supplies place
<mattt> dwatkins: ^5 ... love stuff like that :)
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: the paving slabs go in a steel crate in the back of my van, strapped down over the rear axle
<dwatkins> gordonjcp: oh handy :)
<dwatkins> mattt: yeah, reddit is great for all sorts of things, and the fact you can join subreddits is superb
<gordonjcp> this means that I can piss past all the bogged 4x4s on the roads
<Myrtti> mattt: about 1000 miles from UK
<mattt> Myrtti: which way?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<gordonjcp> mattt: east, mostly
<gordonjcp> I always forget how far north Finland is
<gordonjcp> for some reason I keep thinking it's as far south as sweden
<mattt> gordonjcp: would love to go up there to see northern lights!
<gordonjcp> mattt: I've seen them from my place up north, that's only about 57 degrees
<gordonjcp> mattt: you need a more active sun though
<gordonjcp> we had a massive burst about a month ago, *all kinds* of aurora
<mattt> gordonjcp: up north, as in ... shetland islands?  :)
<gordonjcp> hugely overcast here but I was picking up lots of auroral propagation on VHF
<gordonjcp> mattt: skye
<gordonjcp> shetland is about 58 degrees
<mattt> gordonjcp: oh, you're out that way too?
<mattt> gordonjcp: did a nice drive through skye this august, was lovely :D
<gordonjcp> mattt: yeah
<gordonjcp> mattt: I'm just outside Glasgow at the moment but I grew up on Skye
<gordonjcp> going up there later in the week actually
 * mattt is jealous
 * dwatkins lives in Edinburgh
<mattt> krikey, half this channel is scottish :)
<MooDoo> aye :)
<MooDoo> lol
<gordonjcp> funny to think that Copenhagen and MalmÃ¶ are on the same latitude as Kilmarnock
<dwatkins> I assume the Gulf stream makes it "warmer" in Scotland than similar latitudes elsewhere, e.g. Sweden or Canada
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: yeah
<Myrtti> Tampere is 61.5, 23.766667
<Myrtti> I seem to be unable to hack Wolfram Alpha or Google to tell me how many miles/kilometres that is north from John O'Groates
<mattt> gordonjcp: do you speak gaelic?
<gordonjcp> mattt: a little
<dwatkins> [B
<dwatkins> oops
<mattt> anyone run ubuntu on a macbook?
<dwatkins> mattt: not yet, but I plan to - my other half installed Ubuntu on her MBP 15" (late 2009)
<mattt> dwatkins: i upgraded to lion and performance has been horrible, figure if i'm reinstalling i may as well try ubuntu :D
<dwatkins> mattt: I bootcamped recently to install WinXP, I imagine I'll have to start again for OSX/XP/Ubuntu, and definitely if I want to use Win7 on here.
<dwatkins> mattt: does activity monitor not show CPU usage being high or something? What kind of performance issues?
<mattt> i've never used bootcamp sadly, always just used os x
<mattt> dwatkins: a whole lot of beachballin'
<mattt> opening safari, doing anything seems to beach ball
<czajkowski> aloha
<dwatkins> mattt: I suspect there's another reason for that - I assume you've updated
<mattt> dwatkins: yep, hence trying the fresh install
<dwatkins> mattt: ah ok, if you've not already installed it, there's a lot you can do to diagnose with top, activity monitor, and dplace
<dwatkins> oops, DTrace, I mean: http://www.brendangregg.com/DTrace/dtrace_oneliners.txt
<Old-port> HI
<jutnux> Any of you guys have a tablet?
<jutnux> iPad, Galaxy Tab etc
<mfraz74> i have an arnova 10 G2
<jutnux> mfraz74: Any good?
<jutnux> Looks like the Archos 101 :P
<mfraz74> not too bad, using it right now
<jutnux> Might get myself an Archos 101
<jutnux> same specs as that
<jutnux> Have to use ArcTools to get the market though
<mfraz74> Maplin are selling it for Â£150
<mfraz74> arctools doesn't work on the Arnova yet
<jutnux> Ah right
<jutnux> Think I'm going to get the Archos 101
<mattt> dwatkins: haven't reinstalled yet, re-downloading lion, will try to diagnose a bit further before reinstalling
<mfraz74> what size screen?
 * mattt is afk for a bit
<dwatkins> mattt: I'd be interested in knowing your results
<jutnux> mfraz74: I only really want a tablet for quick browsing and things.
<Myrtti> I'm on exopc right now
<mfraz74> I 'm using it for browsing, chatting and playing games. beebdroid is a good beeb emulator
<Old-port> hi
<Old-port> i got this coin
<Old-port> i think its english
<Old-port> http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8878/dp100423.jpg
<Old-port> old coin
<Old-port> even though tis latin
<Old-port> it says BRITANNIARUM
<Old-port> which sorta sounds like britain
<Old-port> http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6057/dp100424.jpg
<Old-port> thats the back face
<Old-port> is that english?
<Myrtti> looks like a commemorative coin
<Myrtti> and latin
<jacobw> george 3
<jutnux> George the 3rd
<Old-port> is it
 * dwatkins notes Myrtti has awesome powers in the ubuntu channel
<Old-port> quite an appetite he had that fella
<Myrtti> dwatkins: I have awesome powers on a lot of channels
<Myrtti> including this :-)
<dwatkins> I'm not going to doubt that ;)
<Old-port> is this a real english currency??
<Myrtti> Old-port: doubt it
<Old-port> whys that
<Myrtti> currency tends to have something to tell the value of it
<Old-port> yea
<jutnux> http://netcoins.co.uk/details/475
<Old-port> i dunno latin though
<Old-port> it might tell the value
<Old-port> is it english?
<Old-port> at all
<Old-port> was this guy your king at somepoint?
<Myrtti> yup
<jutnux> Yah
<Myrtti> well, not mine, but Britons ;-)
<Old-port> is he the queens great grandfather?
<Old-port> or something like that?
<Old-port> i bet its got good value
<Old-port> 200 year old
<Old-port> i think its gold though im not sure
<Myrtti> well it just said on the website someone gave a link to that a good condition one is nearly Â£700
<jutnux> Myrtti: If this is a W Wyon one
<jutnux> It'll be worth more
<Old-port> what link ?
<Myrtti> ah, yes, the reverse is different
<Old-port> the one jutnux posted?
<Old-port> it doesnt look even remotely similar
<Old-port> both faces are completely different
<Old-port> those coins are different in every way
<jutnux> I can only find a gold one
<jutnux> http://www.antique-marks.com/george-iii-silver-crown.html
<jutnux> Silver one I mean
<jutnux> Â£10,000 - Â£15,000 apparently.
<Old-port> wheres the picture
<jutnux> On the page
<jutnux> I think yours might not be real though, don't know.
<Old-port> yeah that does look better
<Old-port> though the backside is all wrong
<Old-port> and this ones definitely silver
<jutnux> Oh it looks gold
<Myrtti> http://netcoins.co.uk/details/690
<Old-port> that does look more like it
<Old-port> i really wish they had better quality images though
<jutnux> Old-port: Why not take it to a coin specialist? :P
<Old-port> Myrtti, this one isnt identical
<Old-port> look at the  position of the head
<Old-port> different text too
<Old-port> jutnux, yeah thats a possibility
<jutnux> Mass split, woo
<Old-port> lol
<Old-port> http://legacy.stacks.com/Lot/ItemDetail/46523
<Old-port> oh dear
<jutnux> How much does yours weigh?
<Old-port> no idea
<Old-port> its got some weigh onto it
<jutnux> You can only hope ;)
<Old-port> they look identical in every way
<jutnux> I found a stopwatch
<jutnux> and it was worth Â£85,000 if it was real
<jutnux> but it was copper coated in gold :(
<jutnux> Â£4.60
<jutnux> :'(
<Old-port> mine actually looks better than this
<Old-port> i need a weight
<Old-port> and i need one of those gold test kits
<Old-port> one of 7 known
<Old-port> lol
<Old-port> one of 8 lets hope
<Old-port> Proof 63 Ultra Cameo
<Old-port> thats some kind of grading i presume
<Old-port> wow
<Old-port> this is unbelievable
<Old-port> mine looks so much better than theirs  i gotta tell you
<Old-port> maybe its the camera
<jutnux> Probably :p
<jutnux> If you get rich, loan me Â£300 ;)
<Old-port> lol
<Myrtti> well that was a nice sunshine
<gordonjcp> it's pissing down now
<Myrtti> yeah, and I'm talking in past tense
<Myrtti> sun just went down
<gordonjcp> this is going to make barbecueing awkward
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: yeah, not sunset for another hour here, not that you'd notice
<Myrtti> apparently it went down half an hour ago
<gordonjcp> it's been sunny all weekend
<gordonjcp> I bet it'll be sunny next week too
<Myrtti> gordonjcp: wolfram alpha claims the sun goes down in two hours and twenty odd minutes :-P
<Myrtti> still plenty of time
<gordonjcp> man, the barbecue is filling with water
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: I guess it depends on local terrain
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: if you had it totally flat to sea level to the west you might have the sun for another two hours
<jutnux> gordonjcp: I tried to cook a pizza on a bbq before, rest assured it ended up nearly burning the house down.
<jutnux> The oven was broken.
<jutnux> Burning the shed down even.
<gordonjcp> jutnux: I thought about decamping to one of the farm sheds
<gordonjcp> maybe I'll go to B&Q and get a tarpaulin
<jutnux> Good idea.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dan Fish] Recycle, Recycle, Recycle - http://www.ossmedicine.org/uncategorized/11/recycle-recycle-recycle/
<popey> jutnux: you asked if anyone has a tablet, i have an ipad and an asus transformer on the way
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<popey> yo
<mfraz74> afternoon popey
<jutnux> popey: Is the transformer any good?
<jutnux> Never mind, you don't have it.
<jutnux> Hahaha.
<popey> dunno, ask me in two days âº
<jutnux> I shall.
<jutnux> I'm getting an Archos 101.
<jutnux> Toast sandwich is calling me, brb.
<jutnux> Back
<jutnux> Nom.
<Myrtti> how do I know if I'm using 802.11n or something else?
<Myrtti> from the Bit Rate iwconfig gives?
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: "iw wlan0 link" will tell you I think
<jacobw> when is usc going to price in gbp?
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: I get the same information I got from iwconfig
 * Myrtti checks wikipedia
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I don't think there's really a "connection is 802.11n" flag then -- it's just all implicit based on connection speeds (and modulations)
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: but I've been known to be wrong in matters of wifi :)
<MooDoo> yo!
<mattt> alright, putting ubuntu on my macbook pro looks like too much work :/
<popey> insert cd, boot from cd, do install
<popey> thats what I did
<mattt> popey: when critical things like wireless don't work, i wonder if it's worth the effort :P
<popey> which mbp?
<mattt> 8,1
<popey> what wifi card does it have?
<popey> broadcom ?
<mattt> checking
<mattt> BCM43xx (broadcom)
<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro8-1/Natty#Wireless
<popey> yeah, looks annoying
<mattt> will have a look, but afk for the minute
<mattt> thanks popey
<popey> np
<Myrtti> huu
<Myrtti> meh
<Myrtti> I'm a bit annoyed with 11.10 having 3.0 kernel :-<
<Myrtti> all the instructions to get the tablet working as it should are for 11.04 or 2.x kernels
<Myrtti> don't know should I do something with http://www.broadcom.com/support/crystal_hd/ or not
<Myrtti> hm
<Myrtti> linux-firmware-nonfree seems to have it already
<popey> Myrtti: which tablet? exopc?
<gord> not much supports crystal HD though, i think xbmc had work done for it
<Myrtti> gord: confusing information: freedesktop.org claims vaapi supports it, and that several players support vaapi
<Myrtti> AND WHY DOESN'T ANY VIDEOLAN'S WEBPAGE WORK
<Myrtti> garrrhghghghghg
<gord> ack that is confusing, well maybe things will work great :)
<Myrtti> thank deity for text-only google cache
<Myrtti> â¥
<brobostigon> google.com/latitude is 404'ing here, :(
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: didn't they replace that with Plus?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it worked yesterday. and i havent heard anything of that happening, if so, how do i access it?
<MartijnVdS> They might just have messed something up
<brobostigon> more than likely.
<Myrtti> ok, what's the difference between libva-glx1, libva-tpi1 and libva-x11-1?
<dwatkins> I imagine the glx one is for accelerated environments and the x11 one doesn't depend on anything more than a "2D capable" graphics card, Myrtti.
<brobostigon> works now, much better.
<dwatkins> brobostigon: ah cool, I just tested and it works for me now too
<Myrtti> dwatkins: if you could see my face right now, you could be greeted by a blank stare
<brobostigon> dwatkins: who knows what happened, maybe dns update issue?
<Myrtti> so if I've got Unity running just fine and compositing works etc, I could run, say, the glx one?
<popey> Myrtti: apparently the payware fluendo codec pack supports vaapi
<dwatkins> Myrtti: I suspect so, yes, especially if you have nvidia or ati drivers installed
<Myrtti> popey: I know
<Myrtti> I'm not ready to part for the amount of money they are asking just to get HD video if I can try other tricks first
<dwatkins> HD video is the same resolution my monitor has ten years ago.
<dwatkins> Granted my computer couldn't play fullscreen video at that rate back then, but still.
<AlanBell> evening all
<brobostigon> good evening AlanBell
<popey> Good evening AlanBell
<popey> Myrtti: got a link to tech specs of that tablet?
<Myrtti> hohum.
<Myrtti> I give up
<Myrtti> popey: sure, I'll find a link.
<Myrtti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ExoPC%20-or-%20WeTab%20multi-touch%20tablets
<mgdm>   evening all
<Myrtti> the irony of the location of that list doesn't escape me
<Myrtti> supports 64-bit... ho hum
<Myrtti> oh well, I was going to reinstall sometime soonish anyway
<popey> oh, its the wetab
 * mgdm is reading http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/mi80x/give_me_that_one_command_you_wish_you_knew_years/
<mgdm> lots of nice bash/zsh trickery
<Myrtti> popey: wetab with the CrystalHD and 64GB SSD
<Myrtti> just asking a friend who works for Canonical if he'd be able to do anything if I can somehow get him one
<Myrtti> Tampere has a high frequency of these things after Intel AppUp event in April
<popey> wow, they're hideous inside
<AlanBell> dear banshee, if you take 349% of my CPU and stay there you will be killed. http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/fear%20the%20banshee.png
<popey> mattt: https://plus.google.com/u/1/100568396676405064966/posts/2yqi7hQiH8H
<popey> timing âº
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<popey> pip pip
<bigcalm> Afternoon naps are a great
<bigcalm> Am I getting old?
 * AlanBell is done with banshee and tangerine
<AlanBell> forked-daapd and rhythmbox work fine
<mgdm> Rhythmbox \o/
<bigcalm> Spotify \o/
<popey> \o/ Spotify
<Myrtti> updating xserver from edgers... mmmmmm feeling a bit scared of "Do you want to continue [Y/n]
<Myrtti> I don't know if I do
<bigcalm> It would be interesting if apt-get were to say "I'm feeling a bit scared about this. Do you want to continue [Y/n]"
<mgdm> Or just "I'm sorry, I can't do that, Dave."
<mgdm> which you could then override by running with sudo...
<Myrtti> "Daisy, Daisy"
<Myrtti> "Give me your answer do..."
<Myrtti> ahahhahah "Apple's iPhone assistant, Siri, repeats part of the chorus when prompted to sing a song."
<mattt> popey: 10-4 on the link, thank you
<AlanBell> bigcalm: popey so are you running spotify under wine?
<AlanBell> or the premium version for Linux?
 * BigRedS votes for spotify in rhythmbox
<buzz_> AlanBell, the linux native version now works with free accounts
<AlanBell> oh, I had a look yesterday and it didn't seem to, said they couldn't reliably play adverts in it or something
<buzz_> im still running it under wine though on jolios
<buzz_> oh. well ive not tried it. i read it did just recently
<AlanBell> I think I am fine with just my CDs
<AlanBell> I haven't listened to any of them for about 10 years
<ivanka> hello!
<AlanBell> ivanka: \o/
<AlanBell> how is the bike going?
<ivanka> hello AlanBell!
<ivanka> Brilliant - am in Panama
<AlanBell> got a hat?
<ivanka> finally finally managed to get a stable enough connection to upgrade :-)
<ivanka> no hat :(
<AlanBell> seen the canal?
<ivanka> yup - very very interesting
 * AlanBell has now fully run out of panama knowledge
<czajkowski> http://fosdem.org/2012/  75 days to FOSDEM
<ivanka> AlanBell: don't worry, I think that is all there is to it
<czajkowski> ivanka: you're back
<ivanka> AlanBell: apart from lovely nature and tropical type stuff
 * czajkowski hugs ivanka 
<ivanka> czajkowski: not back - in Panama - but online :-)
<czajkowski> tease!
<ivanka> Wanting some help though, my webcam has stopped working and I can't find anything in the forums that looks useful - who is good to ask?
<ivanka> czajkowski: sorry to be a tease
<czajkowski> ivanka: asked in -desktop for some help, but tis the weekend so not many alive
<AlanBell> what webcam?
<ivanka> czajkowski: ok - will add - but just noticed that it started working...
 * ivanka hangs head in an embarrassed way
<czajkowski> meh happens to us all
<czajkowski> at least it's working
<ivanka> czajkowski: yeah
<ivanka> best go and try my mum again :-)
<czajkowski> cool
<czajkowski> take care remember to blog :)
<ivanka> czajkowski: you not checking bootsboatsandbikes.co.uk?
<ivanka> czajkowski: hang on - going to reboot
<czajkowski> eh no
<czajkowski> feck was checking your blog
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I have the expensive account and run the native client. Didn't know it didn't work for free accounts
<czajkowski> ohhhh lotta reading to catch up on
<AlanBell> not sure if I get on well enough with music any more to pay for it
<Myrtti> AlanBell: since you're there
<Myrtti> would you happen to know a trick to reset the location of onboard?
<AlanBell> oh dear, it isn't off screen to the right is it?
<Myrtti> oh yeah.
<AlanBell> :(
<Myrtti> can't see 0 or z :-(
<AlanBell> bug 885608
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 885608 in onboard (Ubuntu) "if you manage to get onboard move button offscreen you can't get it back" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/885608
<AlanBell> turn off force to top
<AlanBell> if that doesn't work I can give you a hack to the SVG layout to make one of the buttons on the left into a move button
<Myrtti> phew
<AlanBell> Myrtti: did you see the model m layout got merged in?
<Myrtti> that was a relief
<Myrtti> AlanBell: I did, and I had a hearty laugh
<AlanBell> and the typist layout I did
<AlanBell> ooh it now has an option to autohide when not editing text
<AlanBell> which works
<DJones> Anybody having problems with twitter tonight?#
<ubuntubhoy> nope, but I use tweetdeck rather than twitter page
<DJones> Seems a bit flaky at the minute, website timing out, gwibber & polly losing connection
<ubuntubhoy> dont like gwibber either
<AlanBell> !ping | AlanBell
<lubotu3`> AlanBell, please see my private message
<bigcalm> Ding dong
<AlanBell> bit of irssi fixing
<AlanBell> hilight window had got all messed up and some lines at the bottom of the screen were not working right, really odd
<DJones> AlanBell: Did you join a new channel while you where in your hilight window?
<AlanBell> don't think so, it seemed stranger than when that happens
<bigcalm> This is making me want to play Zelda http://open.spotify.com/track/6sZmgTsyiF9ObnEniMISIc
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Appreciation Day - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/20/ubuntu-appreciation-day/
<Azelphur> bought a laptop off a company in London, the touch screen was DOA so I sent it back, it's been 3 months and they havn't returned the laptop or my money. Any suggestions on what the next move is? :(
<Azelphur> they keep making excuses, first it was "The touch screen is an optional extra" then it was "Our suppliers shipment is held up" then it was "The manager has gone on Holiday to get married and nobody has authority to order parts" then "The manager extended his holiday" -.-
<mgdm> start quoting regulations
<mgdm> Distance Selling Act might be relevant
<Azelphur> somehow I don't think quoting regulations will help, they arn't disputing that they need to do it, they are just making excuses as to why they can't do it
<mgdm> that doesn't change the law
<tonytiger> Trading Standards too
<mgdm> a failure of their organisational skills shouldn't require that you're left otu of pocket
<tonytiger> Tell them you want it fixed and returned within X days or a full refund
<Azelphur> what's a good X, 7?
<mgdm> sounds fair
<bigcalm> Working days?
<bigcalm> Oh, good evening peeoples
<dwatkins> Azelphur: tell the manufacturer?I bought an ASUS laptop which has some dead pixels on the display, I sent it back to the company I bought it from and they refused to do anything, so I sent it to the manufacturer - they replaced the screen (or at least the panel) and gave me a hair trapped just under the camera
<dwatkins> I'd ask them to just send it back so you can send it on to the manufacturer, Azelphur.
<Azelphur> dwatkins: it's a refurb
<dwatkins> ah
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-12
<MegMan> Hello
<MegMan> anyone try xubuntu
<MegMan> dam is anyone awake here?
<popey> morning
<knightwise> morning popey
<daubers> Morning
<danfish> morning
<christel> morning
<AlanBell> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<SuperMatt> morning
<BigRedS> Morning!
<czajkowski> aloha
<directhex> sigh, even in 12.10, unity can't keep track of openoffice windows spawned by opening a document directly (e.g. in nautilus or thunderbird)
<diplo> Morning
<directhex> wait, this box is still 12.04 isn't it. false alarm
<directhex> i *know* it's fudged on 12.04
<theopensourcerer> directhex: Ah yes, but the menu handling in LibreOffice in 12.10 is badly broken. In that they disappear :-)
<directhex> /o\
<popey> bug 1026426
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1026426 in bamf (Ubuntu Precise) "LibreOffice Unity integration (launcher and switcher) is broken" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026426
<theopensourcerer> Has rather upset my wife :-(
<popey> its fixed in -proposed
<theopensourcerer> hoorah!
<dwatkins> but they're already married... ;)
<popey> wakka wakka wakk
<popey> +a
<dwatkins> hehe
<dwatkins> that reminds me, I was going to watch Being Elmo last week, great documentary that
 * theopensourcerer wonders if popey is walking like a saddle sore cowboy.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
 * mungojerry has been bingeing (binging) on oolite over the weekend
<dwatkins> mungojerry: I was trying to get Arch Elite running on my Pi yesterday, happy days... when it worked, anyway
<mungojerry> the best of the breed (before oolite) IMO
<czajkowski> popey: every time you go wakka wakka this goes on in my noggin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ntn1-SocNiY
<dwatkins> mungojerry: yeah, I really wanted to play it, but the zip file on the site linked from hackaday seems mangled :'(
<mungojerry> always a happy chappy when i get 19kg of gemstones from shooting up a bad guy
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P6ds11QzWA
<mungojerry> i seem to get a bit more scoopage when playing oolite
<popey> czajkowski, thats the intention
<mungojerry> older versions were mory stingey
<czajkowski> popey: :)
<dwatkins> I always found it a little disturbing that you could scoop up someone's escape pod and sell it as 'slaves'
<mungojerry> dwatkins, in oolite you scoop an escape pod and get paid insurance
<mungojerry> :D
<mungojerry> i got â¬250 for some rich guy the other day. sometimes its just â¬25 though
<mungojerry> i was amazed the first time i loaded arc elite on my A3000 and saw vipers flying in formation
<dwatkins> that's neat (both things)
<popey> theopensourcerer, nope
<popey> theopensourcerer, no pain, no discomfort really
<popey> http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-11-07/strategy/34971703_1_bob-mansfield-apple-software-tim-cook
<popey> I would be amazed if Apple switched to ARM on the laptop
<shauno> I don't think it'd be a huge surprise, but I don't think it'll be any time soon either
<gord> they might make a more laptoppy ipad though, if they want to keep up with the neighbours
<mgdm> I'd not be too surprised by an ARM macbook air one day
<mgdm> but then I don't know a lot about these things
<directhex> mgdm, the problem is software. i can see it happening a long time in the future, when osx only runs software from the mac app store, so users can't really tell the difference
<mgdm> well, the impression I had was that it was heading in that direction anyway
<gord> directhex, i thought the same thing of windows. yet here we are with the surface machines
<directhex> gord, yep, with Windows RT only able to run Metro apps from the windows 8 app store
<directhex> plus Explorer and Office, which run on the old win7 desktop. on a tablet. bees, bees everywhere.
<gord> i think it can run non metro apps, but they still have to be from the windows 8 app store
<mgdm> yeah, the UI is a bit... glued together
<directhex> (windows rt has a whitelist of permitted desktop apps - i.e. explorer and office are the only permitted ones)
<directhex> but the app store does unify things for metro. apple aren't at the stage of having a metro-alike right now afaik
<directhex> the mac app store, despite the sandboxing nonsense, is too "open" for every app to be trivially recompiled, so you end up with an ARM ghetto
<directhex> gah. i like u1ms. i do. i like the cloudiness and stuff. but seriously, 7digital take, like, eleven million years longer than amazon to post new albums up
<mungojerry> my ARM shares have gone up 20% in the last couple of week
<czajkowski> gord: you in london this week ?
<gord> nope, why would i be?
<AlanBell> *everyone* should be in London this week
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Why?
<mungojerry> i could see apple doing arm if they had their own foundry
<czajkowski> gord: why not it's great here :)
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: ARM isn't fast enough on the high end
<mungojerry> but apple are likely to do things to spite other firms
<mungojerry> they like to go alone
<mungojerry> and 64bit chips will develop over next couple of years
<AlanBell> ARM can be fast enough if the problem can be parallelised enough
 * MartijnVdS will not be in London this week. Because then the fibre people couldn't install fibre in my house ;)
<directhex> it's not that ARM isn't fast enough on the high end (which *is* true btw)
<directhex> it's that Mac apps run on Mac
 * mgdm will not be in London this week, just because! Hah!
<diplo> Just saw popey in LAS :)
<shauno> directhex: I think it'd be a whole lot less messy than you'd assume.  the groundwork is already laid from the ppc->intel transition
<directhex> any world where mac apps don't run on mac is a failure. an arm mac would need to run every x86 mac app, and run it just as well as an x86 mac (if not better, given it'd be newer hardware)
<popey> diplo, wat?
<mgdm> directhex: They did do that before, though I doubt they'd want to do it again
<directhex> shauno, that was a piece of software they licensed, which had a real-world noticable slowdown attached. the slowest mac laptop on the market is an i5 1.7ghz. which arm chip will be able to run apps for that chip as fast or faster than that chip via an emulation layer?
<diplo> Your face popped up in LAS under Chris's steam client
<diplo> :)
<popey> time?
<mgdm> directhex: Macbook Air on ARM running iOS...?
<directhex> they got away with it with ppc->intel as the fastest ppc chip on the market was an x86 running emulation software
<directhex> mgdm, is not a mac.
<diplo> About 48 mins ish
<directhex> mgdm, that's the thing. if it runs ios it's not a mac, and they poison the mac brand with a mac that can't do mac things
<popey> 46:38 :)
<directhex> they could give an ipad a keyboard, but that's conceptually very different
<diplo> ah, I'm about 10mins past so was a best guess :)
<popey> he was accepting friend requests haha
<popey> http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_nadia_whatsnew.php  " In 2011, GNOME 2 was renamed "MATE" and MATE 1.x made it possible for GNOME users to continue to use their favorite desktop."  O RLY?
 * mgdm finally got sick of fallback mode's various bugs and is now running Unity
<mgdm> just in time for them to announce it's going away
<popey> Unity 2D?
<dwatkins> Gnome 2 is named after birth control?
<popey> its the "GNOME 2 was renamed 'MATE'" which I "O RLY'ed" at.
 * Dave2 is trying to figure out what he should use, Unity is pretty slow on this machine.
<diplo> aha directhex also mentioned at 55mins :D
<Dave2> If Unity 2D still existed I'd be happy with that.
<popey> unity 2d still exists in 12.04
<mgdm> popey: 3D - I found that using VGA instead of DisplayPort makes the radeon driver not drop its guts every now and again
<dwatkins> I installed lubuntu on my netbook, it flies along nicely with xfce.
<popey> mgdm, what's going away?
<mgdm> popey: fallback
<popey> ahh
<popey> yeah, lubuntu is quite fast
<Dave2> popey: yes, but I installed this machine with 12.10, because Unity was OK at native resolution.
<directhex> diplo, ?
<popey> ah
<Dave2> now that I'm running it at 1920x1080 1024x1280, it's struggling a bit.
<diplo> LAS, Chris is buying games reference you ticking them off on reddit ( well I'm guessing there is only one directhex :P )
<directhex> from reddit [A] sent 2 days ago
<directhex> ChrisLAS just sent you 2 months of reddit gold! Wasn't that nice?
<mungojerry> what is reddit gold?
<diplo> If I knew what it was maybe.. :P
<diplo> Great, not just me
<candt> Hi I am trying to troubleshoot my ubuntu 12.04 which recently stopped showing chosen wallpaper at the login screen
<mungojerry> i don't understand what reddit karma is either (what does it do? is it just a number?)
<popey> Dave2, intel video card?
<mungojerry> User:  You get access to new features before they are available to the community as a whole, access to some features that the community will never have access to, and you get access to a special subreddit and a trophy.  It's also a way for you to pay for a service that you enjoy.
<Dave2> popey: yup
<directhex> mungojerry, karma is a completely useless and arbitrary number that MEASURES YOUR WORTH AS A HUMAN BEING
<popey> Dave2, disable active blur?
<popey> Dave2, install compizconfig-settings-manager, run it, go to unity plugin, experimental, switch "Dash blur" to "No Blur"
<Dave2> popey: that may or may not have helped, I shall have to see, thanks
<popey> it will help the dash opening
<Dave2> It's mainly laggy in normal operation
<Dave2> Compiz isn't eating 100% CPU any more though, which is handy
<Dave2> I'm not sure why it was doing that, it didn't before
<directhex> the dash slows down all the things for me on a radeon when it tries to overlay the blur on top of a flash video
<directhex> which is a reasonable thing for me to be doing
<gord> flash video causes a constant redraw of the blur, which is what slows it down
<AlanBell> surely s/flash video/anything in motion
<gord> sure
<mungojerry> got my screensaver button installed :D
<mungojerry> i have a big button connected via usb to lock my pc
<shauno> the least subtle bosskey in the world?
<mungojerry> although i might change it to a convenient random abusive message generator
<dwatkins> mungojerry: neat, I like being able to activate the screensaver - one of my colleagues would just say "what? an off button for the monitor?" ;)
<mungojerry> one colleague has already pressed it, and it's been installed for five minutes
<mungojerry> it lights up green and invites people to press
<shauno> that's why all our big red buttons have drool guards on them :/
<dwatkins> I had an l2ping script a while ago which activated my screensaver if I walked away [with my phone], as it detected its proximity via bluetooth.
<mungojerry> i need to re-skin my button
<dwatkins> what kind of button is it, mungojerry?
<mungojerry> a green one
<dwatkins> self-made or purchased?
<mungojerry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bright-Ideas-Ecobutton-Global/dp/B0018MA4LE/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1352720553&sr=8-3
<mungojerry> plugged it in, and somehow magically, it runs alt-f2 "ecobutton" when pressed
<mungojerry> don't know how
<dwatkins> aha cool, I remember seeing one of those a while ago
<mungojerry> so i put a script in /usr/local/bin to run xscreensaver-command -lock
<candt> Hi I am trying to troubleshoot my ubuntu 12.04 which recently stopped showing chosen wallpaper at the login screen
<dwatkins> it's probably in effect a keyboard, mungojerry
<mungojerry> dwatkins, yes, but the alt-f2 magic?
<mungojerry> i expected it to send a sleep key
 * popey adds an item to the Ubuntu UK meeting agenda.
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda?action=diff&rev1=139&rev2=140
<popey> AlanBell, should it go to the list to discuss first?
<mungojerry> candt, in older versions it was because the picture was not in the default folder
<candt> Is this channel ok for trouble shoooting??
<popey> candt, hi! :)
<mungojerry> where does your desktop pic live?
<AlanBell> o/ candt
<popey> \o/ more Alans
<candt> popey Hi!
<AlanBell> popey: good topic, yeah throw it to the list as well that would be great
<popey> candt, do you have home directory encrypted?
<candt> I have the default bunch of pics in the default /usr/share/backgrounds, they work on th edesktop but  none appear at login, except the orange one
<candt> popey - no encrypt
<candt> I recently installed  the lubuntu desktop environment which takes over the boot up splash. but there was no immediate prob iirc
<candt> Have now removed lubuntu desktop environment and *lubuntu* all removed.
<popey> interesting, wonder if something else got left behind
<popey> or indeed if something got replaced
<candt> Anything I can reinstall? trying to avoid a full warm reinstall of 12.04....
<AlanBell> candt: do you have multiple users set up with different wallpapers selected?
<AlanBell> it should in theory fade between them as you select different people on the lightdm screen
<AlanBell> if they are readable by, um, probably the lightdm user
<AlanBell> which runs as root
<AlanBell> candt: can you do ps aux |grep lightdm
<AlanBell> root      1745  7.4  0.9 192388 79556 tty7     Ss+  Nov05 744:12 /usr/bin/X :0 -core -auth /var/run/lightdm/root/:0 -nolisten tcp vt7 -novtswitch -background none
<AlanBell> should be a line like that
<candt> no only the one user. I usually use a custom wallpaper pic, chosen via (appearance), that worked ok also shown at login screen. It stopped. I then tried the default choices of wallpaper, but  not work for login still
<candt> AlanBell it says no command 'aux' found ...
<AlanBell> "ps aux |grep lightdm" the ps is the command aux are arguments to it
<MartijnVdS> and grep is another command, lightdm its argument
<candt> Doh! I though the ps was a 'please'!! :-(
<AlanBell> nah, I am not that polite ;)
<candt> AlanBell, ah yes lots of stuff
<AlanBell> can you paste the line that looks similar to the one I pasted
<candt> root      1102  0.0  0.0  34040  3148 ?        Ssl  09:28   0:00 lightdm
<candt> root      1143  1.8  0.6  53708 25148 tty7     Ss+  09:28   2:54 /usr/bin/X :0 -auth /var/run/lightdm/root/:0 -nolisten tcp vt7 -novtswitch -background none
<candt> root      1579  0.0  0.1  24252  5216 ?        Sl   09:28   0:00 lightdm --session-child 12 19
<candt> candt     3687  0.0  0.0   4396   828 pts/1    S+   12:02   0:00 grep --color=auto lightdm
<candt> Any use?
<AlanBell> sadly not, yours looks fine.
<AlanBell> I was thinking it might have lacked the -background bit or might have been different in some other way
<AlanBell> oh, actually you are missing a -core
<candt> AlanBell , ok thanks
<AlanBell> I have /usr/bin/X :0 -core -auth, you have /usr/bin/X :0 -auth
<AlanBell> perhaps someone clever knows why?
<popey> I am not clever, and I still don't know why.
<candt> If push comes to shove I will try a warm reinstall of ubuntu 12.04, maybe a reinstall of ubuntu-desktop first?, its not urgent but is unsettling that something  has gone wrong
<diplo> Guys, seeing the email about Proposal for discussion, I was just wondering who wrote the wordpress theme.. trying to teach myself writing one now and wondered if the code was out there as I'm doing a similar design
<diplo> I do miss pastebin.ubuntu-uk though :)
<AlanBell> yeah, it is out there diplo light-wordpress-theme
<candt> I need to sign off soon, thanks I will keep in touch. bye
 * diplo looks thanks
<candt> bye
<AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-community-webthemes/ubuntu-community-webthemes/light-wordpress-theme
<diplo> heh just found it ta
<theopensourcerer> diplo: You are welcome to look at mine too: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/this-theme/
<diplo> Biggest issue I'm having with theming at the moment is the navbars and how to do it properly
<diplo> Will take a look at both and may harass you for tips later :)
<diplo> A charity in the building I work in want a re-make of this
<diplo> http://www.peopleagainstpoverty.com/
<diplo> As they are loosing their free hosting/website in March
<theopensourcerer> Why Wordpress diplo?
<diplo> I haven't 100% set my mind on it yet, but the guy that maintains it/going to maintain it uses it quite heavily for other things
<diplo> I've tried Concrete5 as well, I'm open to anything thoug
<diplo> though*
<theopensourcerer> I like Joomla! but that is just my personal preference.
<diplo> You got any other recommendations, I code stuff manually at the moment for the company I work for but really dont want to do that for them
<theopensourcerer> I came across C5 once - and we migrated the site to Joomla!
<diplo> I did try Joomla a little while ago but had some issues but can defo give it a go again
<diplo> Easy to template theopensourcerer ?
<czajkowski> theopensourcerer: hate joomla ! http://iedr.ie/  read half way down what happened to google.ie and yahoo.ie due to an out of date joomla install
<theopensourcerer> I think so. Although now in version 3 with all the bootstrap stuff I am less experienced yet so can't give you an honest answer.
<AlanBell> yeah, you don't want an out of date *anything* install that is PHP based
<diplo> I like the ease of updating on Wordpress, I don't have to be involved to much after live is why I thought about it
<theopensourcerer> That is not Joomla!'s fault then. That sounds like it's the web master's for not keeping the thing up-to-date!
<czajkowski> love wordpress
<popey> dual screen issue, can any of you reproduce..? open chromium, have two windows, maximise on both screens. click into the window on one screen, then click into the window on the other screen, then move the mouse to the panel. The panel flickers to show the desktop background (the top line of it) and then back to the normal panel content.
<theopensourcerer> J3 also now does auto-updating in a much nicer way.
<diplo> popey: Love to test but chromium wouldn't maximise on my secondary screen this morning, always maxed to primary
<diplo> OK theopensourcerer, will try it tonight!
<diplo> :)
<popey> diplo, make the window smaller and it will
<popey> known bug
<diplo> ah
<popey> it needs to fit inside the smaller screen
<diplo> ok, two secs then
<theopensourcerer> diplo: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=Joomla,%20Drupal,%20Concrete%205
<diplo> Can't seem to recreate here popey
<theopensourcerer> You can;t do Wordpress in here because of the oodles of millions of sites on Worpress.com
<theopensourcerer> s\in here\ I mean on Google Trends.
<diplo> OK, I'm sold.. will take a look tonight
<diplo> Watching a how to joomla
<diplo> on+
<Dave2> popey: xorg still seems to like eating all of the cPU :(
<christel> i have a dead person outside my house
<christel> i should have realised that this was a possibility when moving into an old presbytery next to a church
<christel> but i was incredibly surprised to open my frontdoor to stare straight into a hearse earlier
<MartijnVdS> christel: "I see dead people" ?
<gord> the other week i was at some crossing lights and as i pressed the button to cross i saw a hearse coming down the road. all i could do was cross my fingers and hope it wasn't the first one waiting once the lights changed
<shauno> and we wonder why /r/britishproblems exists
<christel> haha
<MartijnVdS> shauno: /r/firstworldanarchists !
<dwatkins> should hearses have infra-red transmitters to make lights turn for them like ambulances or police cars...?
<MartijnVdS> Why would they? The dead guy won't mind waiting..
<christel> (i am confused as to why the dead guy is still in the hearse, i thought the coffin was brought inside the church for the service?)
<christel> (maybe he/she is very heavy)
<shauno> perhaps he's early?
<dwatkins> or late...
<MartijnVdS> shauno: maybe they ran some red lights?
<dwatkins> I'll get my coat.
<shauno> one of those awkward moments where no matter how geeky you are, you're simply not allowed to go ask them what the system is
<christel> oh perhaps, ppeople seem to still be arriving
<theopensourcerer> Time to go. ttfn
<MartijnVdS> christel: almost as if the hearse was in front of the procession..
<christel> yeah but they've been arriving for like an hour!
<MartijnVdS> maybe he had a lot of friends.. or enemies.. or creditors..
<popey> anyone know someone who lives in winchester and fancies going on Come Dine With Me? :) https://www.facebook.com/comedinewithme/posts/10151258986604204
<christel> good point good point
<christel> popey: ooh i know people in winchester, i dunno if they fancy come dine with me
<christel> (but my friend joel (another freenode user) is on CDWM this week)
<Daviey> i am too near there. :o
<christel> have you moved? in my mind you're in devon!
<christel> (tho i might very well have made that up!) :D
<Daviey> christel: I was, but moved to nr Winchester this year.
<Daviey> christel: sheep can only please you for so long.
<christel> there is that!
<christel> we should beer now that you've moved somewhere sensible!
<Daviey> christel: where are you now?
<christel> i'm just outside farnham (so close to all the alans) :)
<christel> "close"
<Dave2> HOME OF THE HARD DISKS
<MartijnVdS> christel: http://www.flayrah.com/4432/stalking-cat-confirmed-dead-54 ?
<Dave2> Winchester, that is
<MartijnVdS> Dave2: or the rifles?
<christel> MartijnVdS: oh my!
<christel> he looks... different
<MartijnVdS> Dave2: . Project head Kenneth Haughton named it after the Winchester 30-30 rifle because it was planned to have two 30 MB spindles; however, the actual product shipped with two spindles for data modules of either 35 MB or 70 MB.\
<MartijnVdS> christel: he wanted to turn himself into a cat.. or something
<Dave2> Could you have one that was 35MB and one that was 70MB
<MartijnVdS> Dave2: I have no idea
<christel> MartijnVdS: meow.
<MartijnVdS> Dave2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQWcIkoqXwg
<Dave2> MartijnVdS: oh wow, YouTube is entirely unwatchable with Unity on this
<czajkowski> someone should really show gareth france how to quote when he's replying on mails
<MartijnVdS> Dave2: on what?
<Dave2> MartijnVdS: my "new" work laptop
<shauno> 6 years living in Ireland and I still trip over the language barrier.  half way through the boss saying something about his "little fella", I realised he was talking about his son, rather than an impending cringeworthy punchline
<dwatkins> I won't cite the Batman comic I saw the other day, suffice to say words also change over time to mean less innocent things.
<Daviey> dwatkins: A word that used to mean mistake, but now means something vulgar ?
<dwatkins> yeah, Daviey 'Boner' apparently used to mean this.
<Daviey> I have accidental used it in context myself.
<dwatkins> What a ... ;)
<czajkowski> shauno: hah! never thought of it any other way than it meaning a kid
<AlanBell> heh, now you just have to grep your memory for all previous conversations containing that phrase to check you had the correct interpretation :)
<shauno> usually it'd be a bit more obvious.  but it made a conversation about inherited baldness, rather awkward
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> little fella and wee one for the girl usually
<mungojerry> suffer from this crash every day 938379 but it's not fixed in 12.04, how come?
<mungojerry> #938379
<mungojerry> the bot is sleeping? bug 938379
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 938379 in openbox (Ubuntu) "openbox crashed with SIGABRT after closing context menu" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938379
<mungojerry> errors.ubuntu doesn't tell me how many crash per day
<popey> mungojerry, nobody has backported it
<ali1234> popey can you see private bugs?
<popey> yes
<popey> i see dead people
<ali1234> popey: is https://launchpad.net/bugs/1034163 the same as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/1076830 ?
<lubotu3`> Error: launchpad bug 1034163 not found
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1076830 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "panel crashes if you add, remove, then add the same applet" [Undecided,New]
<popey> descriptions doesnt match
<popey> person switched theme
<popey> made that bug public, there's nothing secret on it
<Daviey> popey: there isn't, now i removed the stacktrace :)
<popey> :p
<ali1234> k. i ask because my bug sends a report to errors every time, but there's only one bug with a significant number of reports for gnome panel, and it's the private one
<ali1234> so either nobody else at all hit my bug or daisy isn't identifying that the crashes are all the same bug
<ali1234> also it looks like my machine only uploaded a crash dump once even though i've reproduced the problem several times
<ali1234> and it asked me whether to send each time of course
<mungojerry> popey, looks like I have to compile my own then :(
<mungojerry> does ubuntu provide an easy way to do your own backports?
<popey> feel free to poke the people responsible
<mungojerry> people are asking that on LP , i don't know who the maintainer is though
<mungojerry> looks like nico golde https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openbox/3.5.0-4
<mungojerry> although errors.ubuntu is showing as many crashes per day on 12.04 as 12.10
<mungojerry> maybe a different crash but not promising
<mungojerry> might have to go back to cinnamon :-\
<popey> where is the openbox crash on errors.ubuntu.com?
<mungojerry> showing error reports from "all" users of "openbox"
<popey> which is the crash?
<mungojerry> bug 938379 in 3.5.0.2
<popey> oh, its filtered now, there's _one_?
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 938379 in openbox (Ubuntu) "openbox crashed with SIGABRT after closing context menu" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938379
<mungojerry> one result?
<popey> one per day
<popey> well, only one result
<mungojerry> i think i'm using it wrong: http://ubuntuone.com/545SiZ2XXlckH7Q0pjy4FN
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/3xFcWumeq0vWJ1ZaaHQmdx
<popey> how odd
<popey> ahh, i had past day
<mungojerry> the axis does not show values though
<mungojerry> but implies that the blue line (12.10) has as many crashes as 12.04
<mungojerry> and i expect 12.04 has more users still?
<mungojerry> or at least a similar amount
<popey> well if you only show one release its easier to see
<popey> yes, I'd expect more users on 12.04 than 12.10
<popey> however its not as simple as that, 12.04 has unity 2d, 12.10 doesn't
<mungojerry> so, in effect, 12.10 versino is more crashy
<mungojerry> even if the specifc bug is fxied
<SuperMatt> while it may be more crashy, it's not noticably crashy, most of the time
<popey> you're probably best bringing this up in #lubuntu with https://launchpad.net/~gilir
<SuperMatt> I tend to get a message saying something has crashed and I got go "oh? it has? didn't even notice"
<mungojerry> thanks
<mungojerry> i like the errors faiciility
<mungojerry> they could use it to crash an app to find out how many active ubuntu users in the world :P
<popey> the bug is misfiled
<popey> its not assigned to gtk+
<popey> given the upstream bug
<ali1234> the graph is weird anwyay
<ali1234> as i understand it's supposed to show the probability that the average ubuntu machine crashes during 24 hours of use
<ali1234> but it doesn't consider uptime so it's actually the probability of a machine crashing in a 24 hour period, regardless of whether it crashes, but only using data from machines that crashed a least once
<mungojerry> don't we just wanna see number of crashses per day everywhere?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+bug/1046269
<mungojerry> my openbox process crashes a couple of times a day anyhow
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1046269 in Whoopsie ""Errors/day" wrongly depends on how many hours Ubuntu is used" [Undecided,New]
<mungojerry> do you get number on your axes?
<popey> no
<bootlkjkgf> Mini-SausageRolls !
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure that whoopsie only reports each crash once regardless of how many times it shows that dialog
<SuperMatt> I figured it would do it all the time to get an idea of how many times a particular app crashes
<SuperMatt> what happens with whoopsie crashes?
<popey> once per machine per crash isn't it?
<popey> it updates the counter though
<SuperMatt> ah, fair enough
<popey> so it knows if one person has had 100 crashes vs 100 machines with 1 crash
<SuperMatt> wicked
<popey> and means it does have 100 identical crashes from the same machine to process
<bootlkjkgf> That sinkin' feelin' when you knew you 'should-have-egg'd-it'
 * popey wonders if bootlkjkgf strives for randomness
 * mgdm wonders if bootlkjkgf is a bot
 * Daviey always wondered what you two wondered about.
 * mgdm also wonders about Daviey 
<bootlkjkgf> http://shibataoffice.com/  Almost read it as SHIT-BAD hahaha Ghehe ^_^
<SuperMatt> is it kicking tiem?
<bootlkjkgf> SuperMatt, Yea, ya might as well http://open.spotify.com/track/31pfPf3XFaWjUPPrqd82Jg
<diplo> Just had my first touch with Windows 8
<diplo> Well, it seems just as bad as I had imagined...
<diplo> So from my first experience, am I seeing you can't use MS apps like Mail without having a MS Live account ?
<shauno> it mostly just seems like a strange practical joke to play on anyone who buys a new computer for the next few years
<diplo> shauno: 100% agree, I understand it for a tablet, but a PC/Laptop?
<popey> hah, same thing everyone said about Unity & GNOME Shell & OSX Mountain Lion
<diplo> popey: But not being able to use Windows Mail without a MS account... and a few other apps
<diplo> It's awful, where as I like unity and gnome 3
<diplo> And mac
<popey> like not being able to use mac features without a .me account, or ubuntu features without a U1 account .. :)
<diplo> yeah exactly
<shauno> the last version I tried didn't support regular mail accounts at all.  I kinda assumed they'd have imap by time they shipped though
<diplo> I'm not forced to use u1, this is a business laptop, they don't want to sign up to an MS account to use it ( then again they should also spend money on outlook or use thunderbird )
<mgdm> what's that about needing an MS accout for mail?
<mgdm> I set it up to use my IMAP server... (it doesn't work, right enough)
<diplo> To be able to add accounts you first need to set up an MS account, just think it sucks basically.
<popey> bet you can work around it
<popey> corporates wont want that
<diplo> Expect so, this is for someone in the offices where I work
<diplo> I didn't want to spend too much time on it, but googled it and it seems it's correct
<diplo> But.. I guess they could have ordered home premium or something maybe ( didn't check or know how to )
<diplo> Well at least it's the nail in the coffin for windows for me once 7 is eol
<diplo> Just need to replace current laptop so it can run *nix of some variety properly and we're good to go
<kvarley> popey: Where did you get your Ubuntu sticker you have on your laptop lid?
<popey> kvarley, the big round one?
<popey> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=718
<kvarley> popey: I didn't realise that they were that big :)
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> czajkowski: where did you get to on the hack and talk thingie?
<popey> ooh! good question!
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I visited the firebox place and it was really quite nice
<MartijnVdS> http://gizmodo.com/5959812/john-mcafee-wanted-for-murder
<MartijnVdS> the next Reiser
<MartijnVdS> ?
<mgdm> I had heard he was in trouble a while ago
<MartijnVdS> yeah but now he's really "wanted"
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: Did you know this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Katz
<czajkowski> AlanBell: popey not done anything on it tbh
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: "mr pkzip"
<czajkowski> was in ireland and then uds
<czajkowski> hope to this week
<czajkowski> popey: see pm please :)
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: you were in Ireland before UDS? I was in Ireland before UDS!
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: I have a vague memory of it
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: I was there for 3 weeks
<czajkowski> why didn't you say! was there for most of October!
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: I forgot! I was in Dublin from 26-29 October
<czajkowski> bah
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks
<czajkowski> I used to work close to here http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/8136310934/in/photostream
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: "somewhere in the middle of the city"? :)
<czajkowski> hmm smithfield would be the easiest landmark
<czajkowski> jameson distilary
<czajkowski> acros the bridge from Guiness store
<czajkowski> *across
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: this photo was taken from O'Connell bridge
<MartijnVdS> didn't have time for the Jameson distillery, did go to the Guinness storehouse though :)
<Azelphur> I'm thinking of buying my nexus 4 + nexus 10 from USA
<Azelphur> there's a price difference of Â£127, ridiculous
<ali1234> really?
<brobostigon> Â£239 for the nexus4. not bad really.
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea
<ali1234> so it costs more than twice as much to buy it in the UK?
<ali1234> oh. i don't acre about the nexus 10
<ali1234> how much is nexus 4 in US?
<Azelphur> Nexus 10: Â£319 / $499, Nexus 4 Â£279 / $349
<brobostigon> Azelphur: so you can buy the nexus4 unlocked etc, for Â£112 ?
<ali1234> so nexus 4 is the same price, basically
<Azelphur> ali1234: no?
<Azelphur> 349 usd in gbp is Â£219
<ali1234> and in the UK it costs Â£239
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's the 8GB, talking about the 16 here
<Azelphur> for the 8 it's $299 / Â£239
<Azelphur> and 299 usd == Â£188.28
<ali1234> not bad
<popey> US price is without taxes
<popey> so add VAT to the UK price and it's more comparable
<ali1234> you mean subtract
<Azelphur> so with the nexus 4 costing $349 and the 10 costing $499, comes to Â£534 UK vs the Â£598 we'd get paid
<popey> yes :)
<Azelphur> yea, stupid VAT :p
<popey> I meant "convert to GBP and add VAT"
<popey> but typed something else
<ali1234> well 20% VAT still isn't going to make up the Â£90 difference
<ali1234> een if you add on shipping charges and exchange rate fees
<Azelphur> ali1234: sure it is, 20% of Â£534 is Â£106.80
<ali1234> Â£50
<ali1234> 239-188 = 50
<Azelphur> ah
<ali1234> 188*0.2 = 36
<ali1234> well, 37.6
<Azelphur> I see
<ali1234> then 12.50 for shipping
<ali1234> seems about right really
<ali1234> if you don't wanna pay vat just set up a company and claim it back
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> yea, I really need to find someone nearby me with a company so I can mooch off them
<Azelphur> Just in case anyone wants a Galaxy S3, http://bit.ly/Q9ezQo I'll do a considerable discount on the buy it now price for ubuntu-uk folks :p
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-13
<drhodesmumby> Google Music is here!
<AlanBell> I can't hear it
<AlanBell> turn it up a bit
<directhex> lumia 920 sim-free price appears. Â£520 @_@
<AlanBell> that sounds like lots
<directhex> well it's less than a sim-free iphone 5 with the same quantity of memory (32G)
<directhex> but still, ouch
<directhex> i'm considering trading in the 800, since wp7 is a dead ecosystem. my choices are an affordable (<Â£250) phone - essentially a choice between the nexus 4 or htc 8s - or an expensive phone - the usual suspects at >Â£400
<directhex> android remains worse than hitler. ios remains ios. but do i want to reward microsoft's "no you can't upgrade to wp8" dickery by buying wp8?
<directhex> blackberry is dead. symbian is deader
<directhex> tl;dr: bees
<ali1234> Azelphur: do you really expect to be able to sell that second hand for more than the price of a new nexus 4??
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Samsung-Galaxy-S3-16gb-Pebble-Blue-Unlocked-and-Rooted-plus-64gb-micro-sdxc-card-/181016885083?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item2a2572775b
<Azelphur> here's one going for more than a nexus 4, in usa (where the phones are cheaper) and without a dock
<Azelphur> heck, even a simple search does fine http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Mobile-Smart-Phones-/9355/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=galaxy+s3&LH_PrefLoc=1&rt=nc&LH_Auction=1 :)
<ali1234> i just think it will be a hard sell
<daubers> Morning
<diplo> Morning
<Laney> bah
<Laney> google's website kept crapping out while i was trying to order a nexus 4
<Laney> looks suspiciously like they've sold out now
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> Laney: it didn't like you :p
<daubers> popey: Good news! https://sites.google.com/site/pauldunn/home <- Speccy basic for RPi
<Laney> but i have no phone at all :(
<daubers> (and other disties)
<popey> hah daubers
<popey> Laney, yeah, out of 8GB and 16GB now..
<popey> madness
<Laney> woe
<Laney> it just kept giving me weird errors
<Laney> There is an error in the setup for your purchase. Please contact the merchant with this error message: Expected 3  components in jwt:
<NET||abuse> wow, updated to nvidia 310.14 binary last night as i was just so sick of the 304.43 in nvidia-current,
<NET||abuse> it's working really nicely
<jacobw> morning
<NET||abuse> my whole machine seems faster
<NET||abuse> well, we'll see how i feel by lunch time :)
<NET||abuse> dock and dual external monitor working perfectly.
<jacobw> cool
<xnox> Laney: did you opt in for the email thing? /me only sees "Comming soon"
<NET||abuse> sleep resume worked
<NET||abuse> really happy with this.
<NET||abuse> so far :0
<diplo> I was so tempted for the N4, now I know others are getting one I'll let them guinea pig it :)
<jacobw> almost as good as gnome2?
<diplo> NET||abuse: How did you enable it ?
<diplo> Tried at home ( not very hard ) and it didn't offer 310 as an update
<NET||abuse> diplo: manual
<NET||abuse> diplo: download from nvidia's drivers site
<Laney> xnox: yes, i got one
<xnox> Laney: email or nexus4?
<Laney> emal
<Laney> i
<NET||abuse> go to a tty console, sudo apt-get purge nvidia-current nvidia-settings; sudo service lightdm stop; [ps aux | grep X and then kill any xorg] then in your download location sudo sh ./NVIDIA-blahdebal.run;
<NET||abuse> requirements, linux-source and headers, gcc
<NET||abuse> then sudo shutdown -r now; and your done :)
<NET||abuse> but just hte main thing,, THIS IS AT YOUR OWN RISK;; tm
<popey> erk
<popey> i wouldn't do that
<NET||abuse> oh?
<popey> there's a package for it in the x edgers ppa
<NET||abuse> oh, forgot to add step, sudo update-initramfs -u
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa
<popey> way better than doing it manually
<NET||abuse> yeh, i guess. but i'm comfortable using nvidia's installer, done it for years.
<popey> you might be, but I wouldn't recommend others to do it
<popey> will you support them when it breaks?
<NET||abuse> true, that's why AT YOUR OWN RISK tm
<popey> at the end of explaining it :)
<diplo> I used to do that, but it was a pita
<NET||abuse> but your right, probably a much better idea to use even a ppa
<NET||abuse> but hey, so far so good for me :) i'm on an NVS 4200M
<NET||abuse> was gonna try to use the 304.64 driver, but this one was interesting after seeing some news about 310 doubling performance on some cards
<SuperMatt> morning
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<selinuxium> Morning o/
<Wobbo> Anyone knows about showing the battery panel at ubuntu 12.10? I can't find it and i am using a laptop so its rather important.
<Wobbo> I am using Ubuntu Classic 12.10 on my laptop.
<popey> Wobbo, ubuntu classic?
<Wobbo> Yes?
<Wobbo> what's wrong?
<Wobbo> Well it doesn't matter that both of them doesn't show the battery on a laptop.
<popey> Wobbo, I don't know what you mean by "ubuntu classic" that's all
<Wobbo> oh okay
<diplo> http://askubuntu.com/questions/213777/are-the-newly-launched-nvidia-drivers-supported-in-ubuntu-or-will-they-be
<diplo> How do I get Additional Drivers to pop up, feel like I'm being stupid
<DJones> System settings -> Additional drivers
<diplo> not there, guessed it would be there
<SuperMatt> it's in software sources now
<diplo> Ah, Software Sources ( Addiotional Drivers ) that was very easy to find ( not )
<SuperMatt> agreed
<SuperMatt> it's a silly place to be
<SuperMatt> I should just be able to search the dash for "drivers"
<diplo> Additional*
<diplo> yeah I thought that as well, or additional or proprietary
<SuperMatt> at the moment, I just get golf clubs
<diplo> Seems it doesn't want to be found
<SuperMatt> I think just drivers is fine
<SuperMatt> why would anyone want to search for additional or preprietary drivers if they don't know what they are?
<diplo> What I would like is to launch an app after installing something from USC
<diplo> Because that's what the package is called ?
 * popey files a bug
<popey> easily fixable
<SuperMatt> the drivers thing?
<popey> yes
<SuperMatt> yeah, I figured that you just add another keyword
<popey> exactly
<SuperMatt> it's certainly something that should be in there by default
<SuperMatt> what I'd like is a tool which I can point at the latest nvidia or ati drivers download and it does the install for me
<diplo> Rebooting..
<DJones> Is there any difference in the way Software Centre and Synaptic package manger work? I find I still prefer Synaptic to software centre, just wondered if there was any difference
<SuperMatt> there are so obvious differences
<SuperMatt> software centre queues up changes, for instance
<SuperMatt> synaptic does it all in on go
<diplo> I never liked Synaptic
<SuperMatt> I do
<diplo> It was always CLI before, and I'd say 50/50 for me now with USC
<DJones> Doesn't seem to be much difference, both front ends for apt-get, most commenst are just that that software centre is just a simpler (for the user) package manage system
<SuperMatt> indeed
<DJones> s/commenst/comments/
<DJones> I think I'll stick with synaptic for now, at least until it gets dropped at some point in the future
<SuperMatt> well, you do have to install it manually these days
<DJones> Probably just a  case of "I'm used to it" and "I'm stuck in the dark ages" :)
<SuperMatt> mayhap
<DJones> Ah well, lets see how well this machine creates a dvd with k3b
 * SuperMatt tends to avoid any and all software that starts with a k#
<SuperMatt> -#
<jpds> SuperMatt: kernel?
<jpds> Good luck with that.
<SuperMatt> Â¬.Â¬
<SuperMatt> you know what I mean
<DJones> Again, it something I've always prefered for creating cd/dvd's, just used to it, tried gnomebaker/brasero but couldn't get comfortable with them
<mungojerry> k3b is the best cd writing software in my experience
<mungojerry> brasero created too many coasters over the years
<DJones> You can never have too many coasters though, you never know when you need to put a drink down
<SuperMatt> I've only had brasero coaster on me when I've used it during a beta
<mungojerry> there were entire releases of ubuntu where brasero failed to produce a cd for a lot of people
<mungojerry> e.g. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/fix-the-brasero-copyburn-error
<SuperMatt> I would confess that I haven't had any issues recently, but that wouldn't be truthful because I tend to just write ubuntu images to USB stick these days
<SuperMatt> brasero barely gets a look in
<mungojerry> i burn cds for the car
<mungojerry> and for my son
<Wobbo> Ubuntu 12.04 Nautilus doesn't look right. It's rather looking like Dedian or something. This happen sings I had an update... Any tips to get it back?
<NET||abuse> hmm, having fun with my laptop, when i have it in the dock, once a day it decides to just continuously go into hibernation.
<NET||abuse> i bring it back up and i get the unlock my screen, about 5 or so seconds back at my desktop and then it hibernates again.
<NET||abuse> stoping and starting lighdm stops it happening,, until the next time.
<NET||abuse> only since installing ubuntu again (was on fedora 16)
<NET||abuse> nice thing is it comes up out of hibernation pretty perfectly!
<NET||abuse> over and over again, but still...
<BigRedS> well, at least it's not fedora :)
<awilkins> Having some problem with mounted drives
<awilkins> nautilus can see inside my mounted drive in /media but my shell can't
<awilkins> Hmm, running a root shell, now I have permission to enter the mountpoint, but it's empty
<awilkins> aaaah
<awilkins> I get it, the mountpoint scheme has changed in Quantal
<awilkins>  /media/[user]/mountpoint
<DJones> Does anybody have LIbreOffice Calc to hand, if so, could you check something for me, if you put a border on a cell of a single line at the top and a double line at the bottom, although it prints correctly, does it show the double underline on screen? On this machine, it doesn't show (with 12.04 and Libre office calc v 3.5.4.2)
<DJones> Just wondering if its graphic drivers on this machine, or a bug
<awilkins> DJones : I got it to work but to be apparent on the screen you need to fiddle with the width
<DJones> Cheers, just installing from the ppa to see if a bug fix was released
<awilkins> DJones: it seems rather a flaky feature, if you revisit the cell the line defaults back to 1 line again
<awilkins> Pretty much the same on Windows
<awilkins> THe double line shows up as a double solid line by default
<DJones> I'l see what happens after this update
<awilkins> May come out OK in the print but I can't be bothered to burn toner to see :-)
<awilkins> Anyway, it's Bond Time
 * awilkins dons tuxedo and Walther PP9 holster
 * DJones superglues awilkins to his desk
<DJones> Oh not that type of bond ....
<DJones> awilkins: Upgrading using the LibreOffice PPA has fixed the bug, bow shows as a thick line
<BigRedS> awilkins: yeah, but nobody thought to leave symlinks lying around so loads of stuff breaks
<Laney> should I get an SIII instead of waiting for google to pull their fingers out?
<theopensourcerer> I like my S3 is that helps
<theopensourcerer> s\if
<Laney> could get one for 320 from amazon marketplace
<theopensourcerer> That sounds like a good price
<Laney> used, but warranty
<Azelphur> Laney: I'm selling a S3 if you want one
<theopensourcerer> The N4 is cheap though = Â£239/269
<theopensourcerer> 279
<Laney> can't get it though
<theopensourcerer> Ah
<Azelphur> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Samsung-Galaxy-S-III-GT-I9300-16-GB-Pebble-Blue-Unlocked-64GB-SD-Dock-/261127286954?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones&hash=item3ccc6630aa#shId
<Azelphur> I'd do it for 320 if you wanted it
<diplo> theopensourcerer: Joomla installed last night, will play tonight hopefully
<diplo> Any tips on what not to do ? :P
<theopensourcerer> Have fun diplo
<theopensourcerer> Don't break it ;-)
<directhex> wireless charging on nexus 4 is a big draw
<diplo> Going to do something very odd tinhgt
<diplo> tonight*
<theopensourcerer> directhex: the batt on the S3 is great.
<diplo> I'm actually going to read the documentation and learn how to use it before breaking it
<Laney> Azelphur: hmm, will think about it, cheers
<Azelphur> :)
<Laney> i'm irritated with the whole nexus ordering business
<czajkowski> Laney: someone has a few on sale on a list as they over clicked :)
<Laney> who and how much?
<theopensourcerer> diplo: Just saw this wizz past on twitter. A joomla! shopping site: http://boutique.heathrow.com/
<DJones> Laney: +1 for the S3, agree with theopensourcerer  about the battery, under normal use, mine doesn't drop below 75%
<Laney> \o/
<diplo> That's done with Joomla theopensourcerer ?
<theopensourcerer> Yes + Virtuemart
<diplo> blimey..
 * diplo has some work to do
<diplo> :D
<theopensourcerer> Want me show you some I have made recently
<theopensourcerer> ?
<diplo> Please, could do with inspiration :)
<diplo> Do you hack the code much apart from CSS, or do you try and use the backend for most ?
<Wobbo> Ik heb een aantal ppa software bronnen, die ik nodig had voor de vorige Ubuntu. Sinds de update van 12.04  naar  12.10 sort dit voor problemen. Via synaptic can ik de niet helemaal weghalen. Sommige eisen dat ik bijvoorbeeld ubuntu-desktop verwijder...
<Wobbo> Ik wil gewoon alles van LP-PPA-gnome3-team-gnome3/quantal er van af!
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: Verkeerde taal ;)
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: but you want ppa-purge
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: apt-get install ppa-purge
<Wobbo> Yes...
<Wobbo> Copy and paste...
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: sudo ppa-purge ppa:foo
<MartijnVdS> or just ppa-purge --help of course
<Wobbo> Not all is removed?
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: wat bedoel je?
<Wobbo> For example the latest brasero is still there (v3.6.0-0).
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: it removes one PPA at a time
<MartijnVdS> and reverts packages back to the "official" versions
<MartijnVdS> or it can do anyway
<Wobbo> Stuff like brasero, gimp, totem nautilus are still using updated version of LP-PPA-gnome3-team-gnome3/quantal.
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: what did you do? Can you put the contents of the terminal you did it in on pastebin? (see topic)
<Wobbo> nvm, wtf pastebin?
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<Wobbo> Thank you
<Wobbo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1355486/
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: W: Ophalen van http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/dists/quantal/Release is mislukt  Unable to find expected entry 'quantal/binary-amd64/Packages' in Release file (Wrong sources.list entry or malformed file)
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: You should select a different mirror in "Softwarecentrum"
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: in "Bewerken" -> "Softwarebronnen"
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: then "Downloaden van .. " -> Server voor Nederland
<MartijnVdS> after that it should work
<mungojerry> how do you unpublish posts from wordpress without deleting them?
<mgdm> set them back to draft?
<mungojerry> how does visibility private works?
<mungojerry> ah http://codex.wordpress.org/Content_Visibility#Private_Content
<christel> /3/13
<christel> er
<cocoa117> when u use both password protected and none password protected public/private key with SSH. Is there way to make SSH to auto select the right one?
<cocoa117> or you have to use different user account to make this happening
<daubers> cocoa117: There is a file you can edit to make defaults per host
<cocoa117> daubers, ~/.ssh/config
<cocoa117> ?
<daubers> Probably
<cocoa117> daubers, i guess i need to have multiple line in the authorized_keys right?
<daubers> cocoa117: Pass :) It's been a while since I did such a thing
<daubers> cocoa117: man ssh might help
<cocoa117> daubers, no worries, i google around
<popey> hmmm
<popey> anyone any good at debugging samba issues?
<daubers> popey: What's the issue?
<popey> i can no longer see the samba share on my server
<popey> the server can see it, if I run smbtree
<popey> but the clients can't
<daubers> can you connect to it directly (hit ctrl+l in nautilus and type in smb://192.168.blah.blah/sharename )
<popey> yes!
<popey> hmmm
<popey> that'll do :)
<daubers> Probably that distributed dns thing then
<daubers> or avahi
<popey> oh, could be, the only change is adding my webcam
<popey> bet that broke it
<daubers> More than likely :)
<popey> ta
<daubers> np
<popey> i need to run a cable to my server, Ethernet over Power isn't keeping up
<jpds> cocoa117: ~/.ssh/config, IdentityFile "~/.ssh/id_rsa_key2", etc, per Host.
<cocoa117> jpds, i think i have figured it out, simply APPEND additional public keys to the auth_keys file, the ssh will automatically pick up the right one
<X3N> Anyone know what the correct way to work around this issue is? https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/932580
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 932580 in Unity "Application window not responsive when iconified on execution from autostart" [Undecided,New]
<SuperMatt> so... what's the plan for selinux in ubuntu?
<ali1234> SuperMatt: well, selinux pretty much just works on fedora, so i'm guessing the plan is to replace it with something that looks pretty and doesn't add any security?
<SuperMatt> hah!
<SuperMatt> love it :)
<SuperMatt> I wonder if there is a lot of call of selinux in ubuntu server
<SuperMatt> would be interesting to see if there are any stats on the number of times the packages have been downloaded
<shauno> they appear to be more focused on rapid deployment / cloud deployment / etc
<shauno> voodoo and juju and *aaS
<SuperMatt> indeed
<Laney> anyone ever had a filling give an electric shock type sensation when you touch it with a fork?
<Laney> my new one does that :(
<popey> SuperMatt, apparmor
<SuperMatt> duh, of course
<popey> X3N, might be better asking seb128 or didrocks in #ubuntu-unity or #ubuntu-desktop
<SuperMatt> apparmor seems to a lot lighter weight than selinux
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> all the icons in my launcher seem to have moved very far up in it
<MartijnVdS> I can only see the bottom of the bottom icon
<MartijnVdS> and clicking it doesn't do anything
<shauno> you have a scroll wheel?  give it a shot  (I remember doing that a few releases ago)
<MartijnVdS> doesn't do a thing
<MartijnVdS> click + hold + drag.. nothing
<popey> screenshot?
<MartijnVdS> *uploads*
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://i.imgur.com/uFgku.jpg
<ali1234> what tools am i supposed to use to copy files off a psion on ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: a psion? isn't that very old?
<ali1234> plptools is the only thing i can find in the repos and it is a joke
<ali1234> you have to use a command line tool that wrks like ftp but does not support recursion
<ali1234> then there is plpfuse... it makes cp segfault if you do cp -a or cp -r
<MartijnVdS> popey: does it look like something you know? :)
<popey> ooh fun
<popey> bug
<MartijnVdS> popey: compiz is eating 89% CPU as well
<MartijnVdS> 90
<MartijnVdS> all it can get really
<popey> happened before?
<MartijnVdS> once, in a dev release
<popey> i cant find an existing bug
<MartijnVdS> it happens after multiple weeks of uptime
<popey> i have seen a report suggesting it can happen if you scroll up and down at the same time whilst hovered over the launcher
<MartijnVdS> Killing compiz != fix
<popey> not sure how you do that
<MartijnVdS> Restart unity != fix
<MartijnVdS> logout + Login probably will fix it
<popey> capture your .xsession-errors first
<ali1234> i've got a compiz bug too - it stops drawing decorations on firefox windows after a couple of days
<MartijnVdS> oh wait.. it's a visual thing.. after restarting unity. the _tooltips_ for the icons appear properly
<MartijnVdS> not really properly.. but at least they appear.. and the tooltips change when I scroll my mousewheel
<czajkowski> popey: http://www.thinkgeek.com/brain/whereisit.cgi?t=lightsaber
<czajkowski> I have boughthttp://www.thinkgeek.com/product/b72c/?srp=3  in the past
<czajkowski> they are pretty good
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> there is a decent bit of weight in them
<czajkowski> not too heavy but when he's not playing with it you can
<czajkowski> like what happens all of his toys and you :)
<popey> no idea what you're talking about
<SuperEngineer> In case anybody else here uses Hotot twitter client [like what I do], I got this little gift on starting it tonight: http://imagebin.org/235719
<directhex> SuperEngineer, yep
<popey> https://github.com/shellex/Hotot/issues/51
<popey> https://github.com/shellex/Hotot/issues/308
<popey> lots of people have the issue
<SuperEngineer> thanks popey
 * SuperEngineer expects firehose to be named as a first finger stab at credential stealing.. or am I too suspicious
<popey> i think it's more firehose is the literal meaning
<popey> of standing in front of the twitter firehose of tweets blasting at you
<SuperEngineer> :)
<AlanBell> that is what the API call is for that
 * SuperEngineer investigates
<AlanBell> you can't get it without twitters explicit permission though
<AlanBell> https://dev.twitter.com/docs/api/1.1#334
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: agreed
<AlanBell> sample is pretty fast though
<brunogirin> SuperEngineer: apart from that, how good is hotot? Gwibber never seems to work for me so I use the tweetdeck web client
<AlanBell> https://stream.twitter.com/1.1/statuses/sample.json
<AlanBell> log in with your twitter name and password and it will stream inane garbage to your browser in json format very fast
<SuperEngineer> brunogirin: I use Hotot for much the same reason.. tried others, went back to Hotot [but the ppa as curent version in repo is not to my taste
<brunogirin> why is that?
<SuperEngineer> too buggy... but nicely fixed in ppa
<SuperEngineer> [imho]
<brunogirin> ok, I may try it then, thanks!
<brunogirin> AlanBell: do you still have your "rate my rack" web site?
<AlanBell> http://ratemyspicerack.com/
<brunogirin> yeah I googled "rate my rack", not quite the same :-)
<AlanBell> not quite
 * AlanBell gives brunogirin the "sweet and innocent" award
<brunogirin> AlanBell: I don't win that one often!
<andylockran> afternoon all
<dwatkins> be careful what you search for
<dwatkins> My spice rack is a shelf in a cupboard, it's not even worthy of a photo.
<AlanBell> it totally is dwatkins
<dwatkins> AlanBell: well I suppose I could take one, but it's just a random collection of things I've obtained, there's no rhyme nor reason to it.
<AlanBell> excellent
<SuperEngineer> live on BBC News now: total eclipse from Cairns
<Gargoyle> Evening. Can anyone shed any light on why on an upgrade from server 12.04 to server 12.10 "service php5-fpm restart" reports "Fail!", but the service is actually restarted. Any clues on where I might go hunting (this doesn't happen on another node that was a clean install of 12.10)
<Darael> Gargoyle: Firstly, take a look at the file in /etc/init.d
<Darael> Gargoyle: That'll help find what command it's running and how it tells if it's started correctly.
<Darael> Gargoyle: Then, take a look at the manpage for the command, and see if there's anything relevant.
<Darael> Gargoyle: Diffing the service files between the two machines might turn something up, too.
<Gargoyle> Darael: Ahh. Good idea!
<Gargoyle> If diff returns nothing, does that mean they are exactly the same?
<mgdm> yes
<Darael> Gargoyle: Take a look in the relevant logs, too, and see if it's throwing any errors.
<Gargoyle> Darael: Nothing in the php-fpm log. Does the start-stop-daemon log to syslog?
<Gargoyle> Segfault! :/
<Gargoyle> How can it segfault and still start the service!
<Gargoyle> Does this mean anything to anyone:- php5-fpm[20355]: segfault at 7f436f913d98 ip 00007f4375c708e4 sp 00007fff058dc910 error 4 in ld-2.15.so[7f4375c61000+22000]
<popey> Gargoyle, is this a desktop or a server?
<Gargoyle> popey: server
<popey> http://forums.famillecollet.com/viewtopic.php?id=1787
<popey> http://forums.famillecollet.com/viewtopic.php?id=1772
<popey> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/xcache/yndEQyJtVoY
<popey> etc
<popey> nice to know you're not alone
<Gargoyle> yeah. All I seem to do at the moment is segfault php one way or another! :/
<mgdm> what extensions are you running?
<Gargoyle> imagemagic, gd, apc, curl, memcached, mongo
<mgdm> hmmm
<mgdm> and where'd you get them from?
<Gargoyle> all from 12.10 distro except mongo, which is the 1.3.0RC2
<Gargoyle> but I tried disabling that.
<mgdm> hmmm
<Gargoyle> might have to disable them all and see if I can narrow it down.
<mgdm> can you reproduce it using the PHP command line?
<Gargoyle> mgdm: yes
<mgdm> ah ha
<mgdm> if you do 'ulimit -c unlimited', then run it again, can you get a core dump?
<Gargoyle> just running php5-fpm segfaults (but it still starts up!)
<mgdm> oh, I meant just the 'php' command, as in php5-cli
<Gargoyle> mgdm: Nope. this is php-fpm that's faulting
<mgdm> Right, well
<mgdm> I suspect it's something in FPM
<mgdm> but the PHP packages in Ubuntu are ruined by the Suhosin patch (or used to be, at least)
<mgdm> so any backtrace is basically useless
<mgdm> but no harm in trying
<Gargoyle> mgdm: Not really sure what I am looking for in a backtrace
<shiny> shiya
<shiny> hi everyone
<Gargoyle> hi
<mgdm> Gargoyle: well, pastebin it
<Gargoyle> http://pastie.org/5373894
<mgdm> yeah, no debug symbols
<mgdm> oh, nm
<mgdm> hmm, it's fpm blowing up on start. CAn you check your config is correct? I don't know much about it
 * mgdm disappears
<Gargoyle> it's the imagick module!
<Gargoyle> Is it normal to have RC packages in the distro? (php5-imagick                       3.1.0~rc1-1build2)
<AlanBell> !info php5-imagick
<lubotu3> php5-imagick (source: php-imagick): ImageMagick module for php5. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.1.0~rc1-1build2 (quantal), package size 109 kB, installed size 420 kB
<AlanBell> yes :)
<Gargoyle> It's even a rc in 12.04
<AlanBell> some projects never release
<AlanBell> !info imagemagick
<lubotu3> imagemagick (source: imagemagick): image manipulation programs. In component main, is optional. Version 8:6.7.7.10-2ubuntu4 (quantal), package size 188 kB, installed size 439 kB
<AlanBell> the rc bit is just the PHP wrapper
<AlanBell> that said, the wrapper is as big as the wrappee
<Gargoyle> Interesting. there are different "related" packages installed on two 12.10 servers.
<Gargoyle> Is there a way to get the list of related packages?
<Gargoyle> the ones listed where apt says "The following extra packages will be installed"
<Gargoyle> nm. giving up for today!
<Gargoyle> thanks for the help anyhoo!
<AlanBell> not sure I would recommend this for production deployments
<brobostigon> lol, i quote, it is claimed a politician was bitten by a bug, all reports suggest the bug survived.
<xnox> czajkowski: libmtp 1.1.5 recognises nexus7, there are some changelog indications that it should recognize "galaxy nexus"
<xnox> czajkowski: 1.1.5 is in raring, and backported in my ppa for quantal ppa:xnox/backports
<xnox> czajkowski: maybe you want to try it, and let me know if that improves it for you.
<czajkowski> xnox: context?
<xnox> czajkowski: making ubuntu "recognize" your phone for syncing.
<czajkowski> ahhh
<czajkowski> ok
<xnox> czajkowski: try upgrading mtp-tools libmtp9 libmtp-runtime libmtp-common from my ppa.
<czajkowski> might do over the weekend
<czajkowski> curled up on the couch now
<xnox> czajkowski: ack =)))))
<ali1234> what do i need to install to make java work on 12.10?
<ali1234> openjdk-6-jre
<AlanBell> you don't want openjdk-7-jre?
<directhex> do i hear any advance on 7? anyone?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-14
<xnox> ali1234: 7 is the default in 12.10.
<MaGeD_> Hello , noob question , anyone know an easy fix for this http://i.imgur.com/vepML.jpg  split into volumes option is grayed out
<MaGeD_> 10.04
<ali1234> no reason to use 7
<ali1234> MaGeD_: choose a different archive type maybe? i don't think tar supports multivolume
<MaGeD_> it works only with ( rar )
<ali1234> well there you go then
<ali1234> you can split the file by hand if you really need tar
<MaGeD_> yeah but rar makes high cpu load
<MaGeD_> found this
<MaGeD_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file-roller/+bug/513244
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 513244 in file-roller (Ubuntu) ""Split in volumes" option is grayed out" [Low,Confirmed]
<dubac0> i cant move my curser even after rebooting
<ali1234> fixed my samsung and put CM10/jelly bean on it
<ali1234> i'm pretty pleased with how that turned out
<ali1234> now i have to install all apps again
<ali1234> and it only took 8 hours of messing around with flashing utilities
<ali1234> ok, gmail, maps, streetview, plus, youtube, now, what else am i missing?
<ali1234> haha, default alarms: 8:30 weekdays, 9:00 weekend
<ali1234> 8:30 is a weird time to get up for work
<ali1234> it's too late to make it for 9am start
<ali1234> but too early that you could just sleep in
<popey> not if you work from home :)
<ali1234> true
<ali1234> well, no
<ali1234> not unless you shower and eat breakfast on company time
<ali1234> if you roll out of bed and directly in front of the computer without doing either of those things, or even getting dressed, then maybe
<ali1234> but people tell me i'm weird for doing that
<theopensourcerer> morning everyone
<AlanBell> morning
<Myrtti> moin alans
<theopensourcerer> \o Myrtti
<popey> ali1234, i often check my email from bed before actually getting up
<popey> grab phone/tablet and just skim the most recent stuff
<theopensourcerer> me too. My SG Tab 10.1 lives by the side of my bed mostly.
<ali1234> sometimes i answer the phone while i'm asleep and talk to the other person and then don't remember
<Myrtti> â¥  Nexus
<ali1234> i don't think i've ever sleep-emailed though
<Myrtti> IRC from bed even now
<popey> friend of mine reads magazines in her sleep
<christel> GOOD MORNING PRETTIES
<AlanBell> theopensourcerer: you have the same tablet as the Queen
<theopensourcerer> orly
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20314882
<AlanBell> hers is full of rather dull videos though
<theopensourcerer> Ah no. She has the latest model.
<diplo> Morning all
<ali1234> 150GB of videos in a "digital time capsule" on a tablet computer that will probably break within 5 years
<AlanBell> I doubt it would get heavy usage
<ali1234> doesn't matter
<ali1234> the battery will be the first thing to go
<AlanBell> as long as it doesn't grow tin whiskers it will be fine
<Myrtti> uuer, N7 Android update to 4.2
<MartijnVdS> my Galaxy Nexus has 4.2, it's great :)
<Myrtti> not had that yet
<MartijnVdS> did it manually
<popey> the multi-user thing doesn't work the way I'd hoped
<popey> user 1 installs stuff, user 2 can't see those apps
<popey> so each user has their own sandboxed apps
<popey> which is a waste of space
<MartijnVdS> Xoom is no longer supported. Time for a new tablet ;)
<jacobw> morning
<MartijnVdS> howdy
<jacobw> wie gehts?
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: does anyone really say 'getwittert' or 'gefacebookt'?
<danfish> morning
<diplo> I don't know wtf you are on about so no :D
<danfish> aces - amazon S3 now supports 'archiving' to amazon glacier
<knightwise> morning everyone
<czajkowski> popey: when you switch to your guest session does your wifi still work ?
 * popey switches
<popey> oh, 12.10?
<popey> and how are you determining if it works or not?
<czajkowski> I cant connect to lp
<czajkowski> but can see the wifi thingy still connected
<mungojerry> i would expect that guest mode would not remember password
<popey> in the normal user go to the wireless icon and click "edit connection"
<popey> and see if it's "available for all users"
<mungojerry> does that even work for an unauthenticated user?
<popey> guest doesn't need to remember passwords for wifi
<czajkowski> popey: yup tis ticked
<popey> if the main user has already connected
<czajkowski> popey: main is connected and it's available to all users
<czajkowski> bugger
<popey> czajkowski, ticked in wireless -> the wifi connection you're currently using
<czajkowski> yup
<popey> so you're logged on as you, then you switch to guest?
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> and then wifi just wouldnt work
<czajkowski> so switched to cabel
<czajkowski> *cable
<Myrtti> where's my USB stick, going to probably downgrade today
<lornajane> Myrtti: what are you downgrading?
<Myrtti> my laptop from 12.10 to 12.04
<Myrtti> Online accounts are flaking out and so Empathy doesn't automatically log itself in for some reason, and the Unity Webapps addons crash and don't work
<lornajane> Myrtti: I wondered what wasn't working for you ... I'm just about to upgrade in the opposite direction!
 * popey is on 12.04 on his laptop
<popey> 12.10 on the desktop
<lornajane> I'm home for a few weeks so time for the 12.10 upgrade - this is basically my only machine though, which is why it has to wait for a gap in work committments
<lornajane> I am an XFCE girl so I don't see the same gui changes as others do ... in fact right now I'm running chrome, skype, and five terminals.  So it doesn't really matter what X does
<Myrtti> yeah I suppose going back to Xubuntu would be an option too
<lornajane> I just don't use any window manager features other than having somewhere to put the windows
<knightwise> Xubuntu keeps on surprising me
<knightwise> it has matured very nicely i think
<popey> I hear Lubuntu is nice and lean/fast
<lornajane> I tried mint with LXDE and just couldn't get enough things configured the way I wanted them
<lornajane> so this is kind of XFCE on top of that
<popey> ahh
<lornajane> I still have some major omissions but nothing that I really can't live with
<knightwise> popey: i tried lubuntu on the old G4 imac
<knightwise> it was pretty spiffy
<mungojerry> i'm on lxde at the mo
<mungojerry> with xcompmgr so i can use a dick
<mungojerry> dock
<mungojerry> DOCK!
<czajkowski> mungojerry: go have a cuppa
<mungojerry> cuppa ribena
<ali1234> 12.10 is pretty good as long as you don't attempt to use unity
<ali1234> so pretty much the same as the last few releases really
<selinium> morning all o/
<AlanBell> davmor2: popey: czajkowski: other canonipeeps: what is the plan for tomorrow evening?
<zleap> what is the crash handler program called ?
<AlanBell> whoopsie
<davmor2> AlanBell: I have no idea, food, pub I guess
<selinium> AlanBell, Tomorrow evening?
<zleap> is that the one that comes up with a report when a program crashes
<AlanBell> time? general area of London?
<popey> no
<popey> apport
<zleap> ah thanks
<davmor2> AlanBell: I got no idea what is around here
<popey> apport is the popup, technically apport-gtk, not whoopsie
<popey> AlanBell, depends if I can get in, plumber coming back tomorrow
<zleap> i am going to file a bug report against it to see if they can make a few enhancements
<popey> zleap, such as?
<davmor2> AlanBell: I'm happy to go where you popey czajkowski recommend
<davmor2> AlanBell: mostly cause czajkowski is trying to be nice to me
<czajkowski> I've the CC meeting tmorrow
<czajkowski> plus MRI results tomorrow so need to work around my hours
<zleap> popey,  1.  when it is compiling the report it the graphic thing going roundf,  perhaps if it said "compiling report, please wait"  users would know what its doing,  2,  with send report clicked ,  if you ten click relaunch,  you get no indication thsat its sending someting
<AlanBell> davmor2: it won't last
<zleap> popey, looking at the bugs page I am suggesting this on brainstorm as per instructions
<popey> zleap, the sending happens in the background
<zleap> maybe some sort of indication its doing that would be helpful
<popey> so it doesn't make sense to tell you its sending because it might not actually be sending it
<popey> it does it later when there's a decent network connection
<zleap> ok
<davmor2> czajkowski: that doesn't mean you can't recommend somewhere to eat though :P
<zleap> what about the first point then
<popey> that only appears for people who show details doesn't it?
<davmor2> selinium: I'm down from Wolverhampton for a sprint in London so Thursday was the best day for us to get together and finally met up properly
<zleap> not sure,  i tried to log back in so skype would crash and bring it up,  but it didn't
<zleap> it seemed to be there anyway while compiling the report
<popey> yeah, you only get details and the spinny if you ask for it
<zleap> ah
<selinium> davmor2, Ah.. thought I had missed some memo... :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: I only ever go to katzenjammers borough market  close to trains and here
<zleap> i will have a look next time i get a crash
<Myrtti> Is there a difference in speed or performance between Virtualbox or kvm?
<popey> i use virtualbox because it has 3d acceleration, which kvm doesn't
<popey> but I think other than that they're comparable
<directhex> cpu performance should be identical, since they're both using CPU extensions on modern processors to provide direct-to-cpu computation, not emulating a cpu
<Daviey> i'd like to see a benchmark
<davmor2> Myrtti: it depends what you need, lxc is good if you need something light, kvm is good if you don't need 3d, virtualbox is great if you need the extra gfx grunt
<Myrtti> passing the information to the party interested
 * popey scratches Uganda off his "must visit" list
<popey> http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/uganda-officially-pass-%E2%80%98kill-gays%E2%80%99-bill121112
<popey> *boggle*
<mungojerry> wonder why popey is reading that website
<ali1234> i think whoever wrote the crash details thing should be made to write a 500 word essay explaining why it is so slow, and that should be displayed in place of the spinner.
<AlanBell> mungojerry: it is causing outrage across various forms of social media (rightly so)
<mungojerry> i didn't click the link
<mungojerry> but the url seems to tell a story
<directhex> oops. http://i.imgur.com/yeVUZ.png
<diplo> :D
<diplo> need m0ar bandwith!!!111!!1!
<dwatkins> popey: yeah, I couldn't believe they passed it either.
<jacobw> precise shutdowns on laptop each time i remove the AC in
<mungojerry> wow ARM shares are on a huge march at the mo
<AlanBell> directhex: is that steam?
<popey> AlanBell, it is
 * popey bought a game at lunchtime in steam, on linux, and played it
<popey> win
<AlanBell> ok, so it has a blog thing in it then
<mungojerry> Apple engineers are "confident" that the custom-designed ARM-based chips which now run the iPhone and iPad will one day be powerful enough to run Mac laptop and desktop computers, Bloomberg reported after talking to three people in the know who wish to remain anonymous.
<AlanBell> does it have a support forum type of area?
<ali1234> it has eveerything in it
<popey> each game can publish news
<popey> yes AlanBell
<AlanBell> I didn't know it was a communications thing as well as a store
<ali1234> it's like everything else these days
<popey> it has forums
<ali1234> it's a combined social network, IM client, and app store
<AlanBell> right, so people wanting support with games should talk to each other in the steam client
<knightwise> mungojerry: well it COULD be true someday
<popey> thats the usual place people go
<popey> http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/
<knightwise> they had PPC before they came to intell , who says they just wont pack up and leave again ?
<knightwise> Apple is seldom known for its backward compatiility
<popey> http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1414  for example for the game I just bought
<AlanBell> popey: the question arose as to whether we support steam in #ubuntu or not
<popey> yup, and the "best" place is in their forums
<ali1234>  agree
<AlanBell> !steam
<lubotu3> Valve have officially announced that they are developing Steam and are working with !ubuntu during their devlopment, see http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/steamd-penguins/ for further details
<AlanBell> so that is a bit out of date now, right?
<popey> yes
<popey> the close (hah) beta has started
<ali1234> if you want companies to actually spend money supporting linux the best way to do it is totally flood their support channels with linux noobs
<ali1234> i'm totally serious btw
<AlanBell> ali1234: excellent point
<popey> my sarcasm detector was twitching a touch tbh
<AlanBell> no, I completely get the point
<ali1234> i really mean it
<BigRedS> I keep hearing of people speaking of trying Ubuntu in order to look at the steam beta. That sounds like something that'll end well
<popey> i see arch and now majero (or whatever it's called today) have steam repackaged in their repos
<ali1234> seems reasonable
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> there's no good reason for it not to work
<popey> glad they have
<ali1234> the fragmentation argument is stupid
<popey> how long before someone makes an steam remix which boots directly into steam
<ali1234> you only have to look at the PC vs mac vs amiga vs atari market from ... whenever
<ali1234> which of those is was most "fragmented"? and which one won?
<BigRedS> popey: I've been wanting that for Windows for years
<knightwise> steam is going to be the ember of the fire of change
<popey> we're hoping to get some performance improvements in unity & compiz in the next 12.04 SRU
<knightwise> just watch
<ali1234> nah, that's android
<ali1234> the platform is already burning... and it isn't nokia
<BigRedS> Is getting into this beta idiot-proof? It's still not *that* hard to reboot, but I'd rather not
<ali1234> BigRedS: it used to be rather trivial to set a shell registry key to run whatever.exe instead of explorer.exe and get a single program running fullscreen on login
<ali1234> i've not tried that since NT4 though
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, I stopped going anywhere near the registry the moment they stopped paying me to
<AlanBell> popey: steam could be a desktop environment selected at the login screen presumably
<bashrc> The Windows registry was a hellhole
<popey> yes, omg posted an article about it today
<popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/11/how-to-login-to-steam-big-picture-mode-in-ubuntu
<AlanBell> oh, right :)
<ali1234> that's pretty cool
<bashrc> heh, that's is the menu doesn't go off the bottom of the screen :-)
<czajkowski> one for the cat people on here http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/917888-father-gets-cute-kids-new-pet-after-facebook-cat-bet-backfires
<ali1234> he should get 117 cats
<directhex> popey, there's a common misconception on "steam for arch" or "steam for fedora"
<directhex> what they mean is /usr/bin/steam repackaged for their distros. /usr/bin/steam is a totally barebones downloader, which downloads the actual Steam client to ~/Steam. the actual steam client only has one build right now (with support for more in steam.sh): ubuntu12_32
<selinuxium> Suffering from a brain block... What is the server app that gives you a list of services to install?
<directhex> doesn't help e.g. the lack of glibc 2.15 in debian (no steam)
<popey> true...
<directhex> there is only one trustworthy source of info on which games actually work, btw - mine :p
<BigRedS> selinuxium: tasksel?
<ali1234> so what AAA games work yet?
<ali1234> (that aren't already on software center)
<selinuxium> BigRedS, Cheer  :)
<ali1234> and what is to stop debian packaging a sandboxed glibc 2.15 just for the purpose of running steam?
<BigRedS> debian itself?
<ali1234> well, whoever wants to do it really
<BigRedS> selinuxium: haha, I didn't realise anybody still used it :)
<czajkowski> directhex: oh if I could just point you at people who dont know the facts but talk about them like they do, my twitter stream would be quieter :)
<popey> czajkowski, just link to this http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/12qs6z/steam_for_linux_its_here_deb_in_the_link/c6xf19p
<popey> directhex, i still see dustforce, cave story+ and rochard in my steam
<czajkowski> ahhh
<directhex> ali1234, AAA refers to advertising budget, of course :)
<czajkowski> never really look at reddit, but have had this conversation already with directhex and aquarius
<ali1234> yes, ie "ones i might have heard of"
<directhex> ali1234, but the closest to that description is Serious Sam 3, which had a high development budget
<directhex> although short of AAA
<ali1234> i didn't even know they made a 2
<directhex> popey, probably related to the "FONV for Linux!" bug
<popey> the what?
<xnox> directhex: what's the "biggest" working title?
 * xnox has not played any games for about 7 years now & i'd like to be impressed.
<directhex> popey, the http://i.imgur.com/yeVUZ.png one
<directhex> popey, library is a bit screwy since latest beta. new games added, some missing, makes no sense
<popey> gotcha
<popey> 20k/s :)
<ali1234> xnox: probably psychonauts?
<directhex> xnox, that you can get with beta bypass? SS3. real beta members have team fortress 2
<popey> TF2 is taking an age to download
<directhex> ali1234, has a library entry, but is not actually available for download right now (doesn't grab any files)
<directhex> ali1234, may be in closed beta
<directhex> games may be in their own betas, standalone from the steam beta itself
<directhex> you can change beta enrollment via the Betas tab in a game's Properties
<directhex> (may require a per-game passphrase)
<ali1234> meeeeeeh
<directhex> popey, it says 20k because i didn't tell it i had a fast connection (it assumes 56k by default, and the speed is a param you set at install time on windows)
<popey> heh
<selinuxium> BigRedS, Why not use it? :) i normally use cli but sometimes I like to use it if I am doing several servers at the same time so they are in sync..
<directhex> ali1234, it's as if you haven't read http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/12qs6z/steam_for_linux_its_here_deb_in_the_link/c6xf19p !
<selinuxium> BigRedS, Should arrange a beer soon... :)
<selinuxium> AlanBell, Is there anything in the pipeline for an xmas meet?
<AlanBell> yes, kind of
<BigRedS> selinuxium: I've packages with the right dependencies 'cause tasksel's never *quite* right
<BigRedS> ah yeah - just spoke to work and they're letting me move to London :)
<popey> is that good?
<BigRedS> I reckon it is
<BigRedS> I've lived out of it for 2.5 years now, and still the longest time I've spent continuously not in London is four weeks, and that was eight years ago
<selinuxium> BigRedS, great stuff! :)
<bashrc> In London everything is expensive
 * dwatkins agrees with bashrc 
<selinuxium> AlanBell, Kind of... Mysterious.. :)
<BigRedS> yeah, but I think it's also better :)
<BigRedS> admittedly, I am only comparing it to Darkest Cambridgeshire
<directhex> why does ubuntu.com still recommend i386?
<directhex> there are no processors on the market today that run ubuntu i386 but not ubuntu amd64
<directhex> the only "active" product that can't is AMD Geode, which won't run i386 due to compiler flags
<directhex> oh, no, i'm told the kernel emulates the missing instructions
<BigRedS> I keep wondering that
<BigRedS> Oh, wait, it's 686 I don't get
<BigRedS> does Ubuntu have a 386, or are you doing what I do and equating all of them? :)
<directhex> well, "i386" is the name of the arch in dpkg
<BigRedS> Either way, I was surprised when the woman from Unity said that it worked on both 32 and 64 bit machines. I wondered why you'd bother with the former.
<directhex> partly because changing i386 to i686 is hellishly hard in dpkg
<ali1234> ubuntu wont' run even on 486
<ali1234> and any "arch" above 486 is meaningless anyway
<directhex> fine.
<ali1234> there is no such thing as a standard i686 processor
<directhex> ubuntu's apps are all built with compiler flags which means that instructions introduced with Pentium Pro may be emitted, those instructions are not found on amd geode, via c3, and a handful of others
<directhex> ubuntu's kernels are built to emulate the missing instructions if needed
<ali1234> the geode is of course considerably older than the newest CPUs that don't do 64 bit
<Laney> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel/35163
<directhex> the newest non-64-bit CPUs i can find are a subset of atoms from 2010
<directhex> some 2010 atoms, and all 2011+ atoms, are 64-bit
<directhex> all non-geode amd chips have been 64-bit for nearly a decade
<BigRedS> is that 32-bit kernels or 32-bit hardware, though?
<BigRedS> if everyone is told to use the 386 image, then it'll look like a lot of people are on 386s
<ali1234> yeah so basically you're advocating dropping support for anything older than 3 years
<directhex> "anything" is a massive exaggeration
<BigRedS> for some things older than 3 years
<directhex> "some netbooks" is more true
<ali1234> why draw the line at CPUs?
<ali1234> let's drop all drivers from the kernel for hardware over 3 years old
<ali1234> sure would speed up builds
<bashrc> That would rule out just about all of my hardware
<BigRedS> I wasn't advocating dropping support for it
<directhex> the last 32-bit desktop or laptop chip from Intel was in 2006, with Core 1 solo/duo
<BigRedS> I just don't get why it'd be a feature. Especially since most people who play games would do so on non-esoteric hardware and, as such, by now probably have an amd64 chip
<ali1234> released in 2006
<BigRedS> But I don't really play games either, so it might just be me missing the point.
<ali1234> so probably still available to buy in 2008
<ali1234> and still shipping in OEM hardware in 2009
<directhex> they started normalizing on 64-bit in 2005
<ali1234> anyway that ML post explains rather well why 32 bit is still recommended
<ali1234> if you need to ask that question then 32 bit is the safest answer
<bashrc> my laptop and netbook are both 32bit
<Laney> hardware
<BigRedS> ah, cool :)
<directhex> apparently Ubuntu Friendly is full of people using netbooks
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> ubuntu is, after all, designed for netbooks
<popey> s/netbooks/tablets/
<ali1234> unity used to be called netbook remix
<popey> http://unity3d.com/promo/unity4/
<popey> no, unity used to be called netbook launcher
<popey> netbook remix contained netbook launcher
<ali1234> i've not seen any serious effort to make unity work on tablets yet... handing out tablets to developers doesn't count
<ali1234> coming up with a sensible design for how it could work would be a start
<czajkowski> ali1234: are you ever really happy with the work Ubuntu is doing to be fair?
<ali1234> czajkowski: i was until about 2011
<popey> yeah, I was kidding about tablets
<ali1234> since then it's just getting worse every day
<popey> its what everyone says about unity
<ali1234> yeah those people obviously never used a tablet *or* unity
<directhex> i liked netbook launcher
<directhex> imho it got worse with every release
<ali1234> "and now here we are"
<popey> Dynamite Jack is quite fun
<ali1234> is it like bomb jack?
<popey> no
 * popey also likes bomb jack
<ali1234> lol. it's bomberman meets metal gear solid
<ali1234> looks good
<popey> yes, thats an accurate description
<popey> makes me jump in the same way that MGS used to when they spot you
<popey> holy cow TF2 is 12GB!
<popey> yay 2nd SSD :)
<gord> tf2 is a game from years ago + like 4 years of new game being added to it
<gord> they had an awesome halloween event recently
<directhex> yeah, what gord said
<directhex> it was around 7G when it shipped, iirc
<popey> TF2 aint gonna work on my x220 with i7 is it :)
<directhex> also, the size of TF2 is related to the shared assets.
<gord> works fine on the x220
<gord> the x220 has a fairly good gpu
<gord> http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=105849181
<directhex> there are a bunch of multi-gig bundles of textures etc which are shared across all valve games
<gord> it was a fun event
<ali1234> popey: 11GB of hats, 1GB of game
<popey> :)
<Gargoyle> Am I understanding correctly, that if a sources.list file has .somethingelse on the end then it is disabled? (in this case .distUpgrade)
<jacobw> Gargoyle: yes
<BigRedS> popey: tf2 worksish on my X201 in windows
<BigRedS> with a paltry i5 :(
<popey> ooh, finished downloading
<Azelphur> Is there a decent way for us UK people to do NFC payments on android yet
<gord> i thought google wallet can use any credit card now
<Gargoyle> Azelphur: Glue your nfc enabled card to the back of your phone?
<Azelphur> Gargoyle: haha :p
<gord> its just that there is no where that actually supports nfc
<Azelphur> gord: dunno, I don't think you can even sign up for it
<Azelphur> gord: all the post offices around here and mcdonalds support it, I'm a frequent flier at both places xD
<AlanBell> selinuxium: we have an IRC meeting at 20:00 this evening
<Gargoyle> Azelphur: Are you posting cheeseburgers to people? ;)
<Azelphur> Gargoyle: totally! :P
<Gargoyle> I must PM you my address then. There's nothing better than a cold cheeseburger in the post! ;)
<Azelphur> gord: it looks like they changed google checkout into google wallet, I still can't get the app without some sneaky stuff, maybe I'll get the app and see what happens
<neuro> hey all, jono is now a dad, make sure to pass on your congrats! https://twitter.com/jonobacon/status/268740372891582464
<BigRedS> but he did the easy bit
<neuro> i'd rather not think about that! :)
<BigRedS> haha
<theopensourcerer> popey: "Luckily, apps that have been downloaded for one user don't take up extra storage space when downloaded by a second user. According to Google's documentation, the tablet simulates downloading and installing the app, but doesn't actually keep a second copy of the APK file." >> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/hands-on-multiple-users-lock-screen-widgets-round-out-android-4-2
<popey> on neat
<X3N> popey: Where do I get the vp8 gstreamer encoder from?
<X3N> ah maybe I need to enable universe
<X3N> hmm nope
<X3N> ah sorry was missing the plugins-bad
<popey> X3N, did you find someone to help with that bug?
<X3N> no, going to try and fix it now, probably just take the patch that's on ubuntu's version of gtk-recordmydesktop
<awilkins> I am confused as to where to report problems in libwebkitgtk-1.0
<popey> awilkins, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webkit
<Laney> ubuntu-bug libwebkitgtk-1.0-0
<awilkins> Most frustrating. Getting SIGSEGV in libwebkitgtk-1.0 when Eclipse is using it as a brower control
 * awilkins wonders if it does this to the main window not just the one you are debugging
 * awilkins determines that it does as the internal web browser kills the IDE stone dead
<awilkins> Hopefully I can snag a core dump
<awilkins> Hmm. How can I make the core dump *useful* ; 1.8GB of raw dump is probably a bit much to upload to Launchpad
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: http://sourceware.org/gdb/download/onlinedocs/gdb/index.html ?
<awilkins> TA
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: a full stack trace is what you want :)
<MartijnVdS> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/StackTraces#Obtaining_a_stack_trace_from_a_core_dump
<awilkins> I presume only the relevant thread is wanted...
<awilkins> Shame there are about 30
<awilkins> Oh, 45
<awilkins> Debug symbols are big
 * awilkins synapses are slowly dissolving in alcohol
<Darael> Well, yes.  That would be why they're not installed by default.
<Darael> Hey hey!  ICS update for my San Diego.  Finally!
<Darael> I was getting more than a little tired of being stuck on Gingerbread on a relatively new phone.
<awilkins> Nexus 4 : Good phone, or really annoying because it has no SD card slot...
<mgdm> My last phone had an SD card slot (HTC Desire)
<mgdm> I only used it once, to put a 16GB card in, and then never cared again
<awilkins> Yeah, you could counter the whole "Hey, think that mounting them is a mess, and we hate the file permissions thing", etc, by just going "Install a card, once, and we'll format it for LVM and just make it part of the main volume group that we store everything on it
<awilkins> "remove it or change it, and you'd better hope you had a backup"]
<dwatkins> Very occasionally I need a MicroSD card and one isn't to hand, and once I've taken the one from my phone and used it, but I could have just walked to a shop and bought one instead.
<dwatkins> To me it's a bit like the display - it's there, it works, it doesn't need upgrading.
<awilkins> Bugger, I just made gdb coredump
<awilkins> Is that bad?
<ali1234> awilkins: that's basically exactly what windows phone does and everyone complained
<mgdm> heh
<dwatkins> is it like Inception, where you're coredumping whilst examining a corecump?
<awilkins> Installed the JDK debug symbols. It didn't like it.
<mgdm> ali1234: I've done that once or twice
<mgdm> err, awilkins I mean
<awilkins> "Little did the earthlings know, their entire universe was a debugging session running in the memory space of the UberLord, and soon, it would coredump"
<popey> :)
<mgdm> so deja vu is when they change something in the debugger?
<awilkins> Or when they walk up the stack trace a bit and run the same code again
<awilkins> (dunno if you can do this in gdb, you can do this in poncey debuggers like Java and .NET)
<awilkins> So : can I allocate more resources to gdb, or should I just be content with not having the Java symbols available?
<Darael> Hmm.  Orange additions are still ugly on ICS, but they're a lot prettier than the Gingerbread versions.
<MartijnVdS> \o/ nexus phones
<Darael> I'd like a nexus, but what can I say?  I'm a skint student.
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, I wish I still had my Nexus One
 * MartijnVdS strokes his Galaxy Nexus
<MartijnVdS> my preciousss
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: does it have a mluticoloured scroll button? ;)
<dwatkins> *multicoloured
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: a multicoloured notification light
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: and only 3 buttons (vol+, vol-, power)
<dwatkins> ah neat, the scroll function isn't as useful as the multicoloured aspect
<MartijnVdS> after a week you don't miss the scrolling :)
<MartijnVdS> my scroll ball didn't scroll up after a few months of use
<dwatkins> indeed, I have an HTC Desire HD now
<MartijnVdS> when I still had my N1
<dwatkins> I now have to put up with red, green or amber notifications
<dwatkins> it's such a hard life ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: /r/firstworldproblems ;)
<awilkins> Presumably you could have a full-colour notification LED if it had all three colours
<mgdm> with alternate firmware you can change the colours
<awilkins> Just flash them at different rates
<mgdm> I know someone whose notifications are pink
<dwatkins> exactly, MartijnVdS :)
<MartijnVdS> also /r/firstworldanarchists
<MartijnVdS> that one rocks :)
<awilkins> My N900 has blue/ amber /green
<awilkins> And white
<awilkins> Hmm, I wonder if the hardware is capable of others
<ali1234> awilkins: yes it is rgb
<awilkins> THE NASTY ECLIPSE PROBLEM IS CONFUSING ME
<awilkins> WAAH
<awilkins> And what's with the eclipse build in Quantal being 3.8, the red-headed stepchild of eclipse builds no-one ever heard of
<arsen> is it possible to secure SSH/SSL further to prevent sniffing/decryption?
<BigRedS> do you have a specific attack in mind?
<BigRedS> You could always stick it down another encrypted tunnel...
<ali1234> use certificates
<ali1234> swap certificates in person
<ali1234> don't accept unknown certificates
<ali1234> that's it
<arsen> just looking at some firewall appliances that offer ssl/ssh decryption as a feature for monitoring traffic
<arsen> wondering how difficult it is to bypass
<ali1234> impossible
<arsen> and how they go about doing it
<BigRedS> oh, yeah
<ali1234> they do a very obvious MITM attack on your connection
<BigRedS> but if you have to go through that firewall, you can't have it not pretend to be the other end
<ali1234> if you have to go through the firewall you either let them sniff the traffic, or you don't send it at all
<arsen> well presumably that's how they capture it, but the decryption had me wondering how they do it
<BigRedS> they pretend to be the other end
<ali1234> they insert their own certificate in place of the server certificate
<ali1234> then they get the server certificate
<BigRedS> so they decrypt it the same way your intended destination does
<ali1234> they get your data encrypted with their cert, decrypt it, encrypt it with the server cert, and send it to the server
<ali1234> google man in the middle attack for details
<ali1234> his is really obvious to spot btw when you get a cert like "my corporate firewall certificate" instead of "barclays plc" when you go to barclays website
<ali1234> at least it is if you are even slightly paying attention
<arsen> sure
<arsen> but presumably you can block that i guess
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> just send certificates over a secure channel
<ali1234> and don't accept invalid ones
<ali1234> *might be tricky when you are dealing with websites due to certificate authority BS
<ali1234> basically all the security of SSL comes from the way you decide which certificates you trust and which you don't
<ali1234> if you leave that decision to certificate authorities you weaken your security
<arsen> 5hm
<arsen> well, primarly im talking about SSH
<arsen> and typically i'd tunnel stuff over ssh
<arsen> ill test the ssl thing though, would be interesting.
<ali1234> ssh uses many of the same cryptographic systems as SSL
<ali1234> that's why you get the certificate warning when the server key changes
<arsen> sure
<ali1234> with one of these firewall products you would see that warning
<arsen> i was looking at websense initially but i looked at the palo alto one too
<ali1234> this is exactly the scenario that features is designed to protect against
<arsen> we're talking about them in the office, which is cool and all but not a fan of it picking up my tunneled online banking!
<AlanBell> meeting in 15 minutes folks
<BigRedS> blimey. forgot those happened
<AlanBell> well they haven't been happening, so probably about time one did
<BigRedS> ah, right. That'd explain it :)
<AlanBell> meeting nowish
 * AlanBell tickles czajkowski 
<czajkowski> oi
<AlanBell> #ubuntu-uk-meeting
<czajkowski> but but... so tired..
<AlanBell> but going to talk about hack and talk and christmas parties and installfests and such
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> I just installed the current nvidia drivers from the ubuntu-x-swat PPA, but now nvidia daemons do no recognise my nvidia card?
<pr0ph3t> oh my
<pr0ph3t> I have an ALienware with OEM card, could that be the problem?
<popey> bye bye bot
 * SuperEngineer hears the bugler sounding out the last post for bot
 * Laney stole some popey scripts
<Laney> http://home.orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/
<Laney> runs on the panda :3
<popey> yay
<Azelphur> hmm...the question is, Microsoft or Linux? http://folk.uio.no/hpv/linuxtoons/linux-detergent.jpg
<AlanBell> raring ringtail https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fW1ozSkIEqk#!
<dogmatic69> Been looking for a new house and started looking at Wales.
<dogmatic69> Though roads would work the same there... http://i.imgur.com/76Vih.jpg
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-15
<arossDOTme> I am trying to make a vocal sample as loud as possible but without distortion. Please tell me if there is a nice automatized way.
<Azelphur> arossDOTme: try audacity
<arossDOTme> I have
<Azelphur> audacity does it, what's the problem?
<arossDOTme> Been using the eq
<arossDOTme> and nom and gain
<arossDOTme> but err not mad much progess
<arossDOTme> mad =made
<arossDOTme> aplify does didly squit
<Azelphur> why not effect > amplify?
<Azelphur> works for me
<arossDOTme> didn't do much
<arossDOTme> try applify and nom?
<Azelphur> it's always worked fine for me *shrug*
<arossDOTme> how much do you apm by? -30 or + 20?
<Azelphur> arossDOTme: the max it would allow
<ali1234> arossDOTme: apply dynamic range compression
<arossDOTme> I guess there is just more to it for this sample. The problem is it doesn't sound right. I guess I need to manual adjust sections Ilike I have been for the last 2ish hours
<ali1234> effects > compressor
<arossDOTme> ok
<arossDOTme> it does a bit but I still don't get that loudness I want. I guess I need to individually adjust the eq and then wack up the gain?...
<AlanBell> morning
<MartijnVdS> Fibre-men, fibre-men
<MartijnVdS> â«
 * MartijnVdS hears the drills
<AlanBell> woot
<diplo> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> Ah coffee break is over.. drilling started again
<MartijnVdS> lunch? At 9:23?
<AlanBell> that isn't lunch time. Possibly "second breakfast"
<MartijnVdS> fibre people are one floor down
<MartijnVdS> "we'll be with you in a few minutes"
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o daubster
<daubers> How did the meeting go?
<daubers> Good then!
<Laney> mmmmmm meat
 * theopensourcerer went to see Skyfall instead of the Ubuntu UK meeting.
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LastMeeting daubers
<AlanBell> how was skyfall?
<theopensourcerer> :-D
<theopensourcerer> Great. really good. Enjoyed it a lot.
<Daviey> I found it disappointing  :(
<theopensourcerer> I do like the new "rawness" that Craig and the new producers have brought to the series.
<theopensourcerer> The old ones were a bit too tongue in cheek for my liking.
<Daviey> There didn't seem to be a strong underlying story.  Little romance, and the action scenes were less than exciting.
<theopensourcerer> say what?
<Daviey> There didn't seem to be a strong underlying story.  Little romance, and the action scenes were less than exciting.
<selinuxium> Morning all  o/
<theopensourcerer> Did you watch it on an iPod?
<Daviey> theopensourcerer: Nah, watched in in Denmark :)
<theopensourcerer> In Danish?
<selinuxium> Bacon...
<theopensourcerer> Shut up selinuxium - I am on my 500cal day today.
<theopensourcerer> No food till hammersmith, er home time
<selinuxium> <runs and hides... sandwich in hand>
<Daviey> selinuxium: I'm sorry to break this to you, but the concept of Danish bacon is a lie.
<Daviey> I was mortified.
<selinuxium> O_O
<selinuxium> But...
<Daviey> I was looking forward to a proper Danish sarnie...  The breakfast bacon was American style.
<Daviey> I asked the waitress "WTF.. where is the Danish style bacon?"
<Daviey> "Uh, you big big bacon?  Oh you English, only you think we eat that."
<Daviey> I cried.
<theopensourcerer> The Danes do not have the best reputation for animal husbandry... Danish bacon is approximately 50% water as far as I can tell.
 * theopensourcerer buys happy pig meat from the local butchers
<selinuxium> The chicken is tumbled in a concoction of liquids to double the size of the breasts... Another Danish export... Bleurgh!
 * selinuxium also prefers the butcher..
<Daviey> The big is probably overjoyed he was killed in a happy environment
<Daviey> Getting your throat sloshed in an unhappy environment, hung upside down to let the bloody squirty out, is the real pits!
<selinuxium> I am sure the slaughter house would do a better job than me...
 * Daviey can't type today!
<ali1234> who suggested The Turf for happy hour oxford?
<selinuxium> Daviey is hitting the keyboard with a pound of sausages...
 * daubers catches up with meeting stuff
<Daviey> selinuxium: Good point, oi should probably put some clothes on.
<ali1234> whoever it was, did you know that pub has a MUD named after it, created by the students who used to drink there?
<daubers> :( at the planet going away... but kind of understandable
<selinuxium> Daviey, that did make me laugh out loud. :)
<Daviey> daubers: It really doesn't add any value IMO.
<daubers> Daviey: Agreed... it would just have been nice if it could have added value
<Daviey> selinuxium: :-)
<daubers> In it's current state I agree there is no value
<Daviey> daubers: I think, with Google+ and the like.. people are blogging less now.
<Daviey> I haven't blogged in ages :(
<daubers> Daviey: Yeah :(
<daubers> Don't we have an Ubuntu-UK G+ page?
<Daviey> we do... also not getting love
<daubers> Yeah
<daubers> Is there only one admin on that page? I did notice you can add multiple admins to a page now
<Daviey> pass.
<Daviey> AlanBell: ^ ?
<AlanBell> oh, sure, I can add more admins
<daubers> Just wondering if that would help it get more love
<theopensourcerer> did anyone get a voting card or anything for the PCC elections?
<Laney> oh, it's 'lections isn't it?
<Laney> yeah
<daubers> theopensourcerer: Yes
<theopensourcerer> Oh :-(
 * Laney will go down at lunch
<Laney> call the council and see if you were registered
<theopensourcerer> ITS NOT FAIR!
<ali1234> is anyone actually going to vote?
<daubers> ali1234: Probably
<ali1234> hmm... if you mix vimto and pineapple juice... it tastes horrible
<selinuxium> theopensourcerer, I did not get a voting card..
<selinuxium> AlanBell, Where can I see the minutes from the meeting?
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LastMeeting
<AlanBell> theopensourcerer: I got a voting card, you can use mine!
<bashrc> is anyone voting today?
<selinuxium> thanks  AlanBell   :)
<AlanBell> vote early, vote often
<theopensourcerer> Thanks AlanBell but I am not that bothered. I tend to try and not get involved with the Police when possible ;-)
<bashrc> The choice is dire.  There isn't even an independent candidate
<theopensourcerer> I believe we do have an indy
<bashrc> You're lucky
<theopensourcerer> The missus mentioned it the other day.
<danfish> can't vote here - we got Boris
<AlanBell> if only I had known earlier it was a Â£70,000 salary for doing not very much
<AlanBell> in fact I bet someone could win on a platform of doing nothing and staying out of the way of the experts
<bashrc> yes, and I did think of doing that
<AlanBell> "vote for me and I will let the police get on with doing their job, they are the experts after all"
<danfish> AlanBell: the successful candiate has got to comission crime! That will take hours of meeting with gangsters etc ;)
<bashrc> I could drive arround in expensive cars "appointing officers"
<AlanBell> I have watched Batman and approve of the Gotham crime strategy
<bashrc> heh
<AlanBell> tough on crime, tough on the causes of comicbook baddies
<bashrc> All pccs should wear capes
<danfish> I've had a winning idea - get the person to commission the crimes then tip off the police so they can stop the crime
<danfish> win win
<AlanBell> hit those targets danfish!
<bashrc> The main thing that I want to know is which of the candidates use Linux
<AlanBell> lessons from a medical professional :)
<danfish> AlanBell: I would go on, but I've hit my target for irc today :)
 * AlanBell wonders where davmor2 and co are beering this evening
<AlanBell> and wonders if danfish is coming out for a pint
<danfish> AlanBell: would love to, but finishing at 9pm :(
<theopensourcerer> AlanBell: I am not allowed out to play this evening unfortunately.
<christel> no vote, no beer?
<Laney> makes homer something something
<AlanBell> daubers: so for the G+ page I can add managers by email
<AlanBell> so anyone who wants to post to that needs to tell me the email associated with their G+ profile
<daubers> AlanBell: Probably best to document and broadcast that somewhere
<daubers> AlanBell: Also, I wasn't volunteering! Just suggesting, I'm not the best person for this as I tend to feel less and less like I belong to the Ubuntu (and even Linux) community these days
<AlanBell> thats fine, it was a good question anyway
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<czajkowski> aloha
<bashrc> hello
<brobostigon> hello czajkowski and bashrc
<davmor2>  AlanBell: hey dude so any idea about tonight?
<selinuxium> hi brobostigon o/
<brobostigon> hi selinuxium o/
<AlanBell> davmor2: czajkowski had some suggestion
<AlanBell> kind of a german oompah band place or something
<davmor2> AlanBell: she's just not right in the head  ;)
<czajkowski> http://www.katzenjammers.co.uk/
<czajkowski> which is close to london bridge for folks
<davmor2> czajkowski: why you not here so I can pick on you today :P
<davmor2> czajkowski: I know really
<czajkowski> one dayb was enoiugh yesterday
<czajkowski> your co worker looked very confused
<davmor2> czajkowski: tat's his normal look :)
<czajkowski> or
<czajkowski> Founder's Arms, near the Tate, along the thames
<davmor2> popey: you gonna be there?
<popey> davmor2, if the plumber comes and stops water coming out of the kitchen light fittings, yes.
<davmor2> popey: is the water still pink?
<popey> yes
<popey> until the tank completely drains
<bashrc> why pink?
<popey> so we can see where the water came from
<popey> food dye in toilet, pink drips in kitchen, it came from the toilet
<bashrc> ah
<gord> wouldn't... y'know, it already have a colour?
<popey> :) no
<popey> and the plumber sniffed the water to make sure it wasn't toilet water
<popey> it also doesn't smell of radiators
<popey> not quite sure where it's coming from
<MartijnVdS> but.. you put dye in and now it _is_ toilet water?
<gord> radiators have a smell?
<MartijnVdS> radiator water smells HORRIBLE
<AlanBell> so, tonight then davmor2 and others
<gord> y'know whats disgusting? the inside of your hot water tank. never drink the hot water
<AlanBell> http://www.katzenjammers.co.uk/index.html comes highly recommended
<MartijnVdS> you can smell it when you let air out of them
<AlanBell> but will require a reservation, which I can sort out, how many people want to go?
<gord> don't let the air out then!
<MartijnVdS> gord: but then they won't work as well
<MartijnVdS> ah, found a translation "bleeding a radiator"
<theopensourcerer> Odd. This works in Firefox but not Chrome... http://workshop.chromeexperiments.com/stars/
<MartijnVdS> theopensourcerer: Intel? Chrome disables WebGL on Intel graphics for some reason
<MartijnVdS> theopensourcerer: chrome://flags to enable it
<theopensourcerer> Huh? Really? OK will try that. Thanks MartijnVdS
<czajkowski> AlanBell: o/ hopefully
<gord> my radiators work fine and i have never done anything to them, crazy people
<theopensourcerer> Odd - it says WebGL is enabled
<davmor2> AlanBell: well I'm at the office instead of the sprint, but I can possibly get aq and some other but it might be better to pick a place that doesn't need a reservation unless we know exact numbers
<czajkowski> davmor2: it;s large enough anyways
<popey> gord, our bathroom one doesn't get hot all the way to the top, this is apparently common, so you undo the tap at the top, bleed the air out and the hot water reaches the top, hot toasty radiator
<czajkowski> but nice to have one central table
<AlanBell> davmor2: well give some people a poke, if we can get a rough number I am sure they won't care if we are one or two out
<davmor2> AlanBell: a lot of the ones that would come aren't online right now as they are at the sprint I can give you a ping later when I head back there
<czajkowski> AlanBell: what time for Kjs so ?
<AlanBell> dunno really, I am easy
<AlanBell> I am in Canary Wharf at the moment, might pop to the shops then go there
<AlanBell> pop to the shops at about 6ish, then go there
<czajkowski> I've the CC meeting from 5-6 so will pop down then
<davmor2> czajkowski: sprint finishes somewhere between 5-6 so I'll want to nip back to the hotel first so about 6:30 at a guess
<czajkowski> ok
<AlanBell> davmor2: czajkowski lets say 19:30 ish to meet there and we can make a reservation for 20:00
<czajkowski> sure
<theopensourcerer> Hmmm - this is a very interesting device... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/15/review_viewsonic_vsd220_aio_smart_display/
<davmor2> AlanBell: sounds good
<christel> davmor2! you monkey
<popey> "Referring to it as a "22in tablet" is just silly: as Chromebooks have ably demonstrated, just because a computer runs Android doesn't mean it's a toy"
<popey> wat!
<christel> i er what
<theopensourcerer> lol
<MartijnVdS> popey: chromebooks don't run android though
<davmor2> christel: why am I a monkey?
<theopensourcerer> MartijnVdS: I think that was popey's general point.
<AlanBell> theopensourcerer: openerp touchscreen POS device
<AlanBell> bit big though
<MartijnVdS> Piece of.. ? or Point of ..?
<AlanBell> Point of Sale
<AlanBell> screen of a till
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: though the Point of Sale devices I've seen were pieces of .. :)
<AlanBell> they have historically been so :)
<MartijnVdS> UX, what's that :)
<AlanBell> User eXperience
<AlanBell> Designers can't abbreviate correctly
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I know, but the PoS people don't seem to know any UX people
 * MartijnVdS is not being very clear today
<AlanBell> ah
 * MartijnVdS puts up some fibre pics
<AlanBell> keeps you regular
<czajkowski> mrevell: you in london ?
<mrevell> czajkowski, I am!
<czajkowski> mrevell: coming for drinks later on ?
<mrevell> czajkowski, I think I've missed something. What drinks?
<czajkowski> mrevell: we're (this channel) are in london todya and are going for a tipple and a catch up later on if you're about
<czajkowski> in Katzajammers near london bridge if you're about
<mrevell> Ah cool. What time?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: what time did we agree on ?
<AlanBell> 7:30 for 8
<Laney> you cool london folk
<Laney> with your trendy ways
<christel> what Laney said
<christel> ;)
 * AlanBell will pop out for sushi for lunch now
<christel> thats not trendy, that's very mid-90s
<czajkowski> Laney: you're the hippy!
<MartijnVdS> hipster*
<Laney> brb riding my fixie to the vintage shop
 * czajkowski suspects Laney is off hunting more power supplies in case he just leaves more apples around :p
<davmor2> Laney: man if you go there you wanna get a refund on the vintage you purchased it doesn't suite you ;)
<MooDoo> hello all
<davmor2> MooDoo: Hey dude
<MooDoo> davmor2: long time no insult ;)
<christel> ./13
<MartijnVdS> ./13?
 * christel nods
<MartijnVdS> bash: ./13: Bestand of map bestaat niet
<diplo> MartijnVdS: All foreign to me :)
<MartijnVdS> diplo: "It's all Dutch to me"
<christel> today is messing with my brain
<MartijnVdS> christel: how?
<christel> i ordered two metal + glass lanterns for my patio
<christel> (for candles)
<christel> they arrived on tuesday but one was broken (http://i.imgur.com/yk1M4.jpg)
<AlanBell> no, 'andles for forks!
<christel> the company was very apologetic and said they would send out a replacement straight away
<christel> the replacement just arrived
<christel> http://i.imgur.com/EUhzS.jpg
<christel> ...
<MartijnVdS> hahaha :)
<AlanBell> well, it isn't broken
<christel> i have no idea how they expect me to find a decorative use for a giant yellow rechargable torch!
<diplo> I expect that is classed as candle type torch and someone in there storeroom was stupid
<czajkowski> christel: picture
<christel> czajkowski: http://i.imgur.com/yk1M4.jpg (broken lantern) http://i.imgur.com/EUhzS.jpg (replacement)
<czajkowski> wow
<christel> like for like, right? ;)
<davmor2> christel: exactly the same if you squint to the point that your eyes are closed
<AlanBell> davmor2: any update on numbers?
<AlanBell> davmor2 AlanBell czajkowski mrevell. Any advance on that?
<davmor2> AlanBell: still at the office, but I'll try and get down there asap
<czajkowski> AlanBell: just book it for 8 people loads of space
<AlanBell> down where?
<czajkowski> and we can sprawl out
<Pendulum> christel: they obviously thought you needed more yellow in your colour scheme
 * AlanBell is confused
<czajkowski> AlanBell: davmor2 is in the office
<czajkowski> but the sprint folks are not in the office and not online
<AlanBell> indeed
<AlanBell> oh
<czajkowski> so we cant poke them
<AlanBell> whut??
<AlanBell> hmm, ok
<davmor2> AlanBell: the reason I'm in the office is you keep getting kicked off the AP at the sprint venue and there were a load of new apps that needed pushing through the QA, Apparently the venue isn't preped for 50 people with more than one internet device in a room
<AlanBell> yeah, I thought the sprint was in the office in a conference room or something
<davmor2> nope too many people
<MartijnVdS> lots of places don't cope well with >50 wifi devices
<AlanBell> 50 people with more than one internet device each, and none of them online
<AlanBell> ah well, I will try and book a table for 8
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: indeed we asked for another access point and the venue gave us about a million reasons why they couldn't
<MartijnVdS> So it's like conference wifi :)
<MartijnVdS> we broke university wifi in Frankfurt this summer with YAPC::EU :)
<AlanBell> booked
<AlanBell> davmor2: table at 8 for 8
<davmor2> AlanBell: cool
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: so whan you're done, you can say you ate at a table for 8 at 8?
<AlanBell> :)
<MartijnVdS> (I accept "nein" as an answer :P)
<AlanBell> multilingual europunning ftw
<czajkowski> so have we set a time yet?
<popey> <AlanBell> davmor2: table at 8 for 8
<czajkowski> cool
<czajkowski> can someone tweet it from the ubuntu uk so we can share some love to it
<czajkowski> please
<czajkowski> means I can go for a nap after work
<czajkowski> am knackered
<AlanBell> do we have a twitter?
<czajkowski> I thoguth we did
<czajkowski> or am I getting it confused with the UUPc ?
<AlanBell> confused
<czajkowski> welcome to my world
<AlanBell> https://twitter.com/alanbell_libsol/status/269098649156464641
<AlanBell> but feel free to rephrase
<MartijnVdS> ooh, another mjg59 blog post about EUFI
<MartijnVdS> UEFI
<czajkowski> ah miss them
<czajkowski> iked it when the bot posted in here to tell me about new posts
<AlanBell> might sort out a better bot to do that
<czajkowski> maybe it should only pull people that actualy live in the UK as well
<gord> a local bot for local people
<czajkowski> well I  have no interest about readong about events not happening here tbh, I can read them on planet ubuntu on in my twitter/G+ streams
 * popey notes mjg59 doesn't live here :)
<popey> and neither do you sometimes :)
<MartijnVdS> or I
<daubers> popey see's dead people
 * AlanBell see's apostrophes
<MartijnVdS> that hurt's my eye's
 * daubers doesn't see much at all these days
<MartijnVdS> daubers: oh?
<daubers> Speaking of which.....
<czajkowski> popey: yes ndeed he doesn't
<czajkowski> and here is where I pay my tax so yup I live here :)
<czajkowski> I holiday in .ie ;)
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: maybe you could do what big companies do, and pay less tax? :)
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> am helping the matter by mving out of London
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement#Dutch_Sandwich
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yeah, we've been trying to get politicians do to something about that
<mgdm> czajkowski: where you off to?
<czajkowski> Aldershot
<MartijnVdS> Alderaan?
<theopensourcerer> ARRGGGHHH!
<directhex> so, who's experimented with secure boot on real hardware?
<theopensourcerer> Feck no. czajkowski please stay in London.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: mjg59 :)
<MartijnVdS> directhex: and ali1234 maybe?
<czajkowski> theopensourcerer: boo you
<theopensourcerer> :-*
<directhex> MartijnVdS, i'm feeling adventurous. want to get my x230 booting windows via efi & secure boot & bitlocker, and ubuntu via efi & secure boot & luks
<popey> I'd put two drives in
<popey> one for windows, one for linux
<directhex> popey, two drives into an x230 ultraportable?
<popey> directhex, dunno, i have two in my x220
<popey> one 7mm ssd, one mSATA ssd
<directhex> oh. msata. weirdo!
<MartijnVdS> mmm sata
<popey> wfm
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ df -h | grep sd
<popey> /dev/sda1            213G  164G   38G  82% /
<popey> /dev/sdb1            235G  141G   83G  64% /data
<brobostigon> good hostname, :)
<popey> :)
<neuro> popey: while i applaud your ssd pr0n, i am dissapoint you didn't include some tasty nas stats too
<neuro> neuro@saratoga:~$ df -h | grep cargo
<neuro> cargobay0:/data  5.5T  4.6T  909G  84% /data/cargobays/0
<neuro> cargobay1:/data  5.5T  1.8T  3.7T  32% /data/cargobays/1
<neuro> boom
<popey> alan@homeserver:~$ btrfs fi df /srv
<popey> Data, RAID1: total=7.88TB, used=6.24TB
<popey> "boom"
<neuro> :)
<neuro> i priced up swapping the 8 2TB WD greens in my 2 ReadyNAS boxes for WD reds, and replacing the two 1TB USB WD externals that i use for rsnapshot with reds
<neuro> 1100 quid
<Adriannom> hi. on xubuntu  the spellchecker on libreoffice isn't working at all.  i've tried installing hunspell, wbritish and libreoffice-l10n-en-gb among other things, but nothing is working.  when i try a spellcheck it just says "spellcheck finished"
<Adriannom> is this a common problem?
<neuro> shame the trays in the netserver aren't hot swap :(
<czajkowski> so who's going to Kjs?
<czajkowski> xnox: ?
<xnox> hmmm?
<xnox> czajkowski: what's Kjs
<czajkowski> http://www.katzenjammers.co.uk/
<czajkowski> davmor2: ping
<czajkowski> any word on who's coming from sprint land ?
 * czajkowski is heading to the pub now 
<czajkowski> toodles
<directhex> remarkably hard to makw win7 install from efi to gpt
<directhex> found the right combination of bios config values eventually
<AlanBell> hello from czajkowski's Nexus 7
<popey> :)
<Laney> is it running ubuntu?
<directhex> okay, I've given up on bitlocker, it's seemingly impossible to get it to do password-based boot-time passwordery without some kind of active directory craziness
<directhex> but still, next step is 12.10
<directhex> then I try enabling secure booties
<popey> http://www.heelsforless.com/images/511-lock.jpg   # secure booties?
<directhex> Why does the partition editor in the Ubuntu installer allow me to pick Primary or Logical for new partitions?
<dwatkins> directhex: did you try truecrypt?
<directhex> doesn't mention windows 8, which means the truecrypt boot loader probably can't do uefi secure boot
<directhex> which was part of the adventure
<directhex> so, more problems with the installer
<dwatkins> oh bah, that's not so useful then
<directhex> you can't enable LVM and Luks without erasing all partitions
<directhex> i.e. the installer has only two radio buttons - blat the lot, or manual setup. you can't do lvm in the installer's manual setup
<directhex> you can do luks though
<xnox> directhex: you can ;-) with a lot of hackery.
<directhex> upshot: i'm using a swap file, not a swap partition
<directhex> xnox: talking about the installer, not hacking in terminal
<directhex> oh, windows 7 is a pig to get working via efi
<xnox> directhex: if there is enough padding around the filesystem, you can create lvm & luks around it and then carefully ask luks to encrypt it. but it's like a surgery with calculating the offsets.
<directhex> and windows generally is silent on whether it's booted via efi or bios
<xnox> directhex: ah, yeah, installer just wipes it, unless you have existing LUKS & go into the live session and mount it  / unlock before running the installer.
<directhex> xnox: I just wanted a luks based install alongside win8. installer did not offer it.
<xnox> directhex: in UEFI mode? known bug.
<xnox> directhex: well new feature.
<xnox> directhex: where did you get win8 from by the way?
<directhex> installer JustWorked with secure boot though. that impressed.
<xnox> =)))))))))
<directhex> bought from windows.com, made an installer usb stick
<xnox> oh it's general sale now? interesting.
<directhex> upgrade install from win7. win7 install was harder
<directhex> hard*est*
<directhex> waiting to see all of the secure boot stuff backported to 12.04 point release
<directhex> that was a large point of the exercise - forewarning myself on how secure boot will be for users in the future
<directhex> tl;dr: uneventful
<AlanBell> evening
 * AlanBell has been beering with czajkowski and davmor2
<AlanBell> it was fun
<AlanBell> and sorry about the nexus 7 czajkowski
<Azelphur> well, that was pretty cool
<Azelphur> I just requested a refund on an app that I bought about 6 months ago, and google accepted it
<Azelphur> It was a pretty legit request (the app doesn't work, for anyone, and never has done) but still, less than 60 seconds for them to give me a refund \o/
<directhex> recure boot & steam beta in the same evening
<bittin> dissing UK and going to Norrland instead =D
<ali1234> directhex: i've not tried real hardware, only the tiano simulator in qemu
<directhex> ah. i'm a freakin' pioneer!
<ali1234> directhex: you can read all about it on my website, if you want
<ali1234> al.robotfuzz.com - in 4 parts
<ali1234> after that mjg's blog is the best place for the real scoop
<ali1234> Azelphur: you know how to hack android apks right? can you look at the bbc news app and tell me if it's possible to change the feeds it uses?
<Azelphur> ali1234: nope, I've never done that
<ali1234> annoyingly it is by far the best RSS reader on android with the only problem being it can only access BBC feeds
<Azelphur> I know it can be done, but I've never tried to do it
<ali1234> i thought you did with that NFC thing...
<Azelphur> ali1234: tried pulse? it's rather popualr
<Azelphur> ali1234: nope, someone else did that
<ali1234> yes, i tried just about every rss in the store today
<ali1234> they are all rubbish
<czajkowski> evening
<czajkowski> just home
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> just got a 'chromium has crashed, restart | leave closed'
<dogmatic69> opted to click the X and continue using it...
<ali1234> yeah i get that a lot
<Ng> hrm, no popey
<czajkowski> oh a Ng
<Ng> hi :)
<czajkowski> hows things with you?
<Ng> czajkowski: good thanks. you?
<czajkowski> yeah not bad working away keeping busy :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-16
<AlanBell> o/
<AlanBell> home now
<MartijnVdS> Good morning everyone!
 * soreau puts on a pot of coffee
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<popey> morning
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20325517
<theopensourcerer> That's what I keep telling my kids... "The Geeks will inherit the Earth"
<ali1234> slow news day?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you filed them nexus 7 bugs you found yet :)
<AlanBell> not yet :)
<popey> nice one for setting up #ubuntu-steam AlanBell
<AlanBell> bug 1079591
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1079591 in ubuntu-nexus7 "onboard can be made thin to the point of unusable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1079591
<AlanBell> popey: I didn't
<popey> AlanBell, did you try 3-finger press to get big grab handles on onboard to make it bigger?
<czajkowski> popey: we tried everything
<czajkowski> it was amusing
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: thanks told mfisch about that one
<czajkowski> popey: http://twitter.com/i/#!/czajkowski/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FUgV9RnvD
<popey> so you _did_ try 3 finger touch?
<selinuxium> morning all   o/
<AlanBell> yes, tried to popey
<popey> interesting
<AlanBell> couldn't get the handles to appear
<AlanBell> and even when it was big and was showing the handles they didn't seem to be draggable
<popey> heh
 * theopensourcerer reminds AlanBell we have an interview in 1 hr
<AlanBell> there needs to be a simpler reset of onboard and possibly some minimum size anyhow
 * AlanBell knows
 * AlanBell will be in the office shortly
 * theopensourcerer makes a note on his timesheet ;-)
<theopensourcerer> whats the cli name of the pdf viewer in Ubuntu?
<theopensourcerer> I *hate* it when Firefox does this... Sometime it seems to get its app to mime type/file extension mapping screwed up. Has been offering to open .doc and .pdf with gedit :-(
<theopensourcerer> nm - found it. evince. That's obvious.
<popey> just like "acrobat" is obviously a pdf reader
<theopensourcerer> I also hate it that you are not shown a list of apps to which you might like to open said file with. Instead one has to browse to /usr/bin and find it. Usability failure or what.
<popey> right click -> open with other application
<popey> that should list some apps
<popey> but yeah, the firefox "browse for an app" thing is mental
<theopensourcerer> the right click doesn't work when the file is sent as a result of clicking a link (i.e. not a direct link to the file).
<popey> does it download though, so show up in the downloadificator window of firefox?
<popey> right click, open folder
<popey> still, ballsache
<theopensourcerer> Oh I see what you mean. Possibly. But I tend to nebvedownloadificator window
<theopensourcerer> kbd fail.
<theopensourcerer> never have the downloadificator window open ;-)
<popey> me either, i use chromium :)
<theopensourcerer> I use both
<theopensourcerer> But FF is the main one. I found chrome/ium a bit more buggy and resource hungry <surprisingly>
<popey> that is odd
<ali1234> theopensourcerer: xdg-open whatever.pdf
<AlanBell> anyone want a steam invite?
<diplo> beta ?
<AlanBell> yeah
<diplo> .o/
<daubers> AlanBell: Go on then
<AlanBell> too late daubers  :)
<daubers> n/m :)
<danfish> morning
<danfish> AlanBell: you use hetzner iirc - do you use their nameserver robot?
<AlanBell> no, don't use them for DNS
<MooDoo> hello all
<SuperMatt> hi hi
<danfish> AlanBell: ok. tx
<MooDoo> how is everyone today?
<SuperMatt> spiffy, thanks
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<SuperMatt> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<directhex> Azelphur, so, are you running a beta tf2 server?
<Laney> it's too frustrating that the mouse doesn't click where the pointer is
<Laney> http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/1/882965239606145629/ that
<popey> anyone got 12.04 on an nVidia dual-screen machine perchance?
<diplo> 12.10 on both mine sorry
<SuperMatt> dang, 12.10
<popey> np
<SuperMatt> who runs 12.04 these days anyway?
<SuperMatt> I'm moments away from upgrading to 13.04
 * popey runs 12.04 on his laptop
<popey> along with millions of others
<dogmatic69> popey: what is the actual bug you posted on twitter?
 * dogmatic69 has 2x monitors and nvidia
<dogmatic69> and 12.04
<czajkowski> mrevell: make sure you post to the Ubuntu-ie and ILUg ( irish linux user) groups if holding a meet up in Dublin
<mrevell> czajkowski, Cool, I didn't want to spam but will do if you think it'll ok
<czajkowski> yeha hell ya
<popey> dogmatic69, follow the link?
<popey> dogmatic69, you need to update to ppa:unity-team/sru  and try opening the dash on one screen then the other
<czajkowski> hmm where did the restart later button go
<MartijnVdS> right click on the icon in the task bar thingy, close app :)
<dogmatic69> popey: When I open on 1) fine, then 2) flashes quick and goes away.
<MooDoo> good afternoon everyone
<popey> dogmatic69, what version of unity you running (output from apt-cache policy unity) ?
<dogmatic69> Installed: 5.16.0-0ubuntu1
<popey> ok, so the version shipped in ubuntu, not the one from ppa:unity-team/sru ?
<dogmatic69> yep
<popey> 5.16.0+bzr2410sruubuntu0+709 is the sru version
<popey> this is good news, thank you!
<popey> can you comment on the bug that it happens with 5.16.0-0ubuntu1 (so not a regression in our sru)
<dogmatic69> I figured I would give you the current version
<popey> yeah, brilliant, very helpful
<popey> you dont need to upgrade and test
<popey> thats sufficient
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1079287 in case you lost the link
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1079287 in Unity "Week 46 - Multimonitor dash display flickers" [Undecided,New]
<SuperMatt> oh, out of interest, I've had a bug plaguing me for a while, and I think I saw it in 12.04 and before: essentially, after being on for a short while, opening a new gnome-terminal causes my machine to hang for about 10 seconds before it is loaded. Any one else see this ever?
<dogmatic69> popey: updated
<popey> thanks a million
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: genius!
<dogmatic69> everyone gone to vote for a police guy...
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: yes yesterday
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: seems like not many people went.
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: yeah not many people that interested here either
<dogmatic69> imo its a dumb idea.
<dogmatic69> Or at least not executed very well.
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: or most people just don't care
<dogmatic69> well I have not had a single paper through the door regarding it
<dogmatic69> no clue who was even up for election
<dogmatic69> hardly a way to win support.
<dogmatic69> s/a/the
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19970734
<BigRedS> One day I'll get used to the way that almost everything is available already-packaged in the Debian repositories
<BigRedS> but I just got blown away by it again
<dwatkins> What particular package pleased you thus, BigRedS?
<daubers> dwatkins: Umm.... might be worth rephrasing that....
<bokjhv> Hi there, I'm missing the Ubuntu 10.10  x32 edition off my LXFDisc  does anyone know where the download is ??
<SuperMatt> I believe 10.10 is no longer supported
<SuperMatt> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/
<daubers> bokjhv: Do you mean 12.10?
<SuperMatt> but you should be able to get it from there
<bokjhv> thanx SuperMatt.
<SuperMatt> bokjhv: I should have asked the same question as daubers
<SuperMatt> are you sure it's 10.10 you want? 12.10 is the latest version
<SuperMatt> oh well
<BigRedS> dwatkins: tilecache
<dwatkins> BigRedS: hehe, good point, thanks, just curious
<SuperMatt> I answered his question, can't do much more than that
<BigRedS> dwatkins: it's more that I keep getting lists of things to install, fill /opt with tarballs and *then* check apt and find it's all in there
<dwatkins> BigRedS: yep, that sounds very familiar
<ali1234> everything is packaged in debian
<andylockran> hey guys - I'm running VirtualBox and one of my ubuntu machines has stopped at the grub prompt
<andylockran> any recommendations on how to get past it?
<SuperMatt> what messages do you get at the prompt?
<SuperMatt> andylockran: this doesn't answer *your* question, but actually the steps are the same: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
<andylockran> it just hangs - can log in to VirtualBox on the server (via X forwarding) and then click through
<SuperMatt> well, actually, it does answer the question, but it's a different question
<SuperMatt> hurm
<SuperMatt> maybe it won't answer your question
<SuperMatt> give it a try though, see what happens
<ndf> hey guys, I've been out of the loop for a while and haven't really used Ubuntu for like, a year... i realise it still has apt-get but no aptitude - is there a reason I "shouldn't" have aptitude?
<andylockran> kewl, thanks!
<ndf> i used it for find and list
<SuperMatt> ndf: I have aptitude, and this is a fresh  install of quantal
<ndf> =/
<dwatkins> ndf: I have aptitude, I'm running 11.04.
<ndf> odd
<SuperMatt> I guess you could apt-get install aptitude
<ndf> yeah, that's what I was about to do, I was just wondering if there was a reason (maybe deprecation) that it wasn't already on here
<dwatkins> ah, I think I had to install it, I guess it's not installed by defauilt
<ndf> it used to be, because I don't ever remember having to apt-get install it
<kirrus> It's kinda depreciated, but I think it'll still be supported
<SuperMatt> I know synaptic isn't installed by default
<diplo> I think it waws removed 10.04 time
<ndf> riiight
<kirrus> it's just apt-get has been patched tonns to make it better than aptitude at fun stuff like dependency tracking and resolution
<diplo> I preferred it if i was honest on some of the results, but they didn't want two maybe so used apt-get as default
<diplo> As per kirrus  :D
<ali1234> aptitude has not been in the default install for as long as i can remember
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: your memory is <1.5 years? :)
<ali1234> i didn't know it ever was
<ndf> yeah i think it was still in 10.04
<ali1234> right, so it was probably removed at the same time as synaptic
<ndf> ahaa
<ali1234> which was removed when we got software center
<ndf> yeah that makes sense
<ndf> lol
<ndf> to point out that it doesn't do SCP, the help says "This aptitude does not have Super Cow Powers"
<dogmatic69> man. rm somefolder and now server has died.
<dogmatic69> load is like 15
 * diplo thinks dogmatic69 has done rm -rf /
<diplo> :P
<dogmatic69> no
<dogmatic69> deleted a submodule
<dwatkins> I'm so paranoid, I add '--' to my rm -rf commands to ensure no additional options are prepended.
<diplo> I am now as well dwatkins, did my first mistake last year
<diplo> Good learning curve :)
<dogmatic69> How can I see what is causing this?
<ndf> if a window has focus and another opens on top but the one below still has focus, clicking on it doesn't bring it to front unless it loses focus first... how annoying
<dogmatic69> htop is reloading every 10 seconds :/
<dogmatic69> swap -> 4029/4029
<SuperMatt> ouch
<dogmatic69> ram 3779/3896
<dogmatic69> I guess I will have to pull the plug...
<MartijnVdS> *beep* *beep* *beeeeeeeeeeep*
<dogmatic69> yey for hp ilo
<ndf> wtf, i have this samsung netbook, and the CMOS has no boot order settings =/
<MartijnVdS> ndf: maybe it shows something like "Press F12 to enter boot menu"?
<ndf> seperate from the rest of the CMOS setup?
<ndf> hm
<MartijnVdS> yes
<ndf> is this quite common now?
<MartijnVdS> no idea
<MartijnVdS> things are changing, with UEFI etc. ;)
<ndf> ah
<ndf> ty I'll take a look now
<ndf> it says f2 is setup, f4 is recovery, and doesn't mention anything else... f12 started PXE net boot
<ndf> (which fialed)
<ndf> *failed
<ndf> lol i was being retarded
<ndf> i was looking at the bios n thinking there was just no list under the title 'boot device priority'
<ndf> (it's a menu item you have to go /into/)
<ndf> haha
 * ndf slaps himself
<ndf> sweet brb - this live usb key has to go into the netbook now
<kvarley> I've install apache2 on ubuntu 12.10 and enabled the user dir module but I'm getting permission denied when I visit http://localhost/~kevin/ Any ideas?
<directhex> kvarley, what are the permissions on /home/kevin and /home/kevin/public_html ?
<directhex> i.e. does www-data have read & execute permissions on those dirs?
<kvarley> directhex: I did chmod -R 775 on public_html
<kvarley> directhex: How can I grant www-data access?
<directhex> kvarley, so on public_html, but what about on /home/kevin ?
<SuperMatt> kvarley: did you restart apache after you enabled the mod?
<kvarley> directhex: Ah ok, doesn't seem like it gives access to anybody but me
<kvarley> SuperMatt: yes
<kvarley> directhex: Oh, just realised my homedir is encrypted
<SuperMatt> that might do it
<directhex> Azelphur, so, srsly, beta server? the best pings i can find on populated beta servers are 150+
<kvarley> Is it possible to reload permissions without logging out and back in again?
<SuperMatt> not really :/
<kvarley> Ok, brb then ;)
<kvarley> AskUbuntu has to be one of the most awesome help sites out there :) That and #ubuntu-uk ofc :)
<SuperMatt> there's always #omg!ubuntu!, but no one ever talks in there :(
<dogmatic69> any idea why I cant telnet into irc?
<dogmatic69> telnet irc.freenode.net 6667
<dogmatic69> gets hostname, checks ident and then hangs for a while and times out
<dogmatic69> ERROR :Closing Link: 127.0.0.1 (Connection timed out)
<ndf> anyone know of any software that prevents windows from opening at a size larger than the resolution of the screen? i'm on a netbook with a short height screen =(
<dogmatic69> helps if I sent the actual commands :D
<Priyank> how to install drivers in ubuntu. please help.
<Priyank> anyone there to help??
<brobostigon> Priyank: you can install them, using the normal, apt/dpg method.
<brobostigon> and using aptitude/synaptic etc.
<Priyank> i'm a absolute beginner in this. . can u please help me by giving me the steps.
<Priyank> i cant connect to internet/wifi.
<brobostigon> Priyank: ok, look up on packages.ubuntu.com thr name of the driver package you need. then look that up, in software centre, and install it.
<brobostigon> Priyank: ah, ok, that makes things more complex. look up the package as a said, within the package details, download the .deb package to that machine, ie copy via a usb stick for example. then install with "sudo dpkg -i PACKAGENAME"
<Priyank> ok, i''ll try that.
<Priyank> can i contact u in future for further assistance??
<brobostigon> Priyank: also, download any dependencies it shows it needs.
<brobostigon> Priyank: of course, yes. just check that i am here first.
<Priyank> any other way to contact u??
<brobostigon> Priyank: just ask youre question here, there are loads of people here, that can help.
<kirrus> Priyank: you might need to be a little patient for one of us to answer though :-)
<Priyank> how do i know which package to download??
<brobostigon> Priyank: read the package description, and make sure it matches the ubuntu version you use.
<Priyank> what is precise and quantal??
<brobostigon> !precise
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) is the current !LTS release of Ubuntu.  Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/12.04/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1204
<brobostigon> !quantal
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.10 (Quantal Quetzal) is the current stable release of Ubuntu. Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/12.10/ - Release notes: http://ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/12.10
<Priyank> i have installed ubuntu 12.04, so i have precise
<brobostigon> yes
<bokjhv> brobostigon, Hi there .. what was the comand line command in Ubuntu  to kill wireless (?) .. kill connections ?
<brobostigon> bokjhv: sudo ifdown NETWORKDEVICE
<Priyank> its very confusing, i cant understand anythng there. . .
<brobostigon> Priyank: ok, lets have more info, put "iwconfig" into a terminal, and pastebin the output for us.
<directhex> Priyank, okay, start from the beginning. you have no WiFi support, or no wired networking support, or both?
<Priyank> both.
<Priyank> "no wireless extension"
<directhex> huh, that's uncommon. what's the hardware? e.g. model of laptop?
<brobostigon> thats in the networkmanager applet ?
<Priyank> model dell 14r
<directhex> Priyank, so, in the general case, drivers for all types of hardware except graphics cards are built into the linux kernel, so all hardware should work "out of the box" as long as the kernel supports it
<brobostigon> exception, some still require closed firmware blobs.
<bokjhv> Priyank, I've got a samsung  N135 .. just updating atmo.
<directhex> brobostigon, ubuntu installs all firmwares by default, the only thing not included is out-of-tree drivers not maintained via ubuntu patches to mainline
<Priyank> brobostigon??
<Priyank> u htere??
<brobostigon> directhex: ok, good point, maybe just used to debian not including such things.
<directhex> Priyank, so, apparently there might be a bug in the 14R's BIOS. can you reboot it into the BIOS, and disable the setting "WLAN Toggle"?
<Priyank> i'll try tht.
<Priyank> what should i do after that.
<directhex> just boot back into ubuntu, see if it feels better
<Priyank> u guys dont upload video tutorials. . it makes work much more easier.
<directhex> Priyank, this isn't a tutorial job, it's a specific issue support job
<directhex> Priyank, in most cases, stuff should just work out of the box
<Priyank> what is wlan toggle, there is nothing like dat.
<directhex> i don't own a dell 14r, i can't give you anything more precise than i'm reading in other peoples' reports
<directhex> something like the top entry on http://en.community.dell.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/3324/8664.bios.JPG
<Priyank> i'll check.
<brobostigon> i like the new android 4.2 topbar pulldown, especially showing battery percentage, without having to go all the way into settings.
<directhex> okay, android fans, how do i make the home etc button not be at the bottom of the screen?
<ali1234> battery percentage is a massive lie
<directhex> buttons at the bottom of the screen render android unusable for kids. so how to dispose? go!
<ali1234> the home button is a hardware button
<directhex> ali1234, not since android 3.0
<ali1234> what? how do you get to the home screen when you're in an app then?
<directhex> you press the software home button which android injects into the bottom of every screen
<directhex> regardless of screen orientation
<ali1234> wow
<ali1234> that sucks
<Laney> I always accidently mash those
<Laney> especially when typing at a pace
<ali1234> so if you remove it, how will you get to the home screen, or go back, or open the menu?
<directhex> ali1234, i don't care. move the buttons to the top, or some kind of ssecret tap to make them reappear. whatever. point is, toddlers lean on the bottom of the screen, therefore any app with bottom-of-screen buttons is junk. an entire *os* with bottom of screen buttons is junk
<brobostigon> ali1234: i agree, but it is useful, also with it being a shortcut, as to what is using cpu and wake time etc, is useful.
<ali1234> anyway, it must be possible somehow, because my SGS still has hardware buttons and doesn't put silly extra buttons on the screen
<brobostigon> well, i can run, android 4, on my g1, and it has the hw controls, and also shows the software controls also. weird, but thats how it is. i agree, in such situation there must be a way of changing it.
<directhex> remember, touchwiz =~ android
<directhex> samsung may have mangled the controls in touchwiz, but they're fixed in upstream android
<ali1234> i don't use samsung rubbish
<ali1234> i use cyanogen 10
<ali1234> it's android 4.1.2.
<Azelphur> ali1234: ^5
<ali1234> ^5?
<Azelphur> high five :P
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/August/IMG_20120831_205728.jpg
<ali1234> pretty much
<ali1234> anyway cyanogen knows how to get rid of the software buttons
<Azelphur> I'd have a Nexus 4 too if google built more than 3 of them
<ali1234> so it must be possible somehow
<ali1234> touchwiz is really bad
<brobostigon> ali1234: it is possible, because early 4* builds for my g1, had only those hw controls.
<ali1234> Azelphur: did you manage to sell that phone you were selling?
<Azelphur> ali1234: the galaxy s3? luckily ebay randomly banned me so no
<Azelphur> which is a mixed blessing, on the plus side google made a total of 3 nexus 4's, so I didn't get one, so if it had of sold I'd have had no phone
<Azelphur> on the downside, I'm of course banned from ebay
<directhex> OI Azelphur! BACK TO WORK!
<Azelphur> :o
<Azelphur> directhex:  I don't have any TF2 beta server, only TF2 official
<directhex> reportbug -s "OPEN A TF2 BETA SERVER FOR LINUX STEAM TESTERS!" azelphur
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> supporting the official release is annoying enoug
<Azelphur> h
<directhex> :'(
<directhex> dude, 150 ping
<Azelphur> directhex: you probably won't get amazing ping to my server either, it's in east coast US
<Azelphur> try pinging azelphur.com
<directhex> laaaaaaaame
<directhex> i'm amazed just how few beta servers there are tbh
<directhex> i.e. 10
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> yea, not many people do beta
<directhex> not full or empty or passworded = 8
<directhex> well, there's one good thing about beta
<directhex> i still own max's severed head
<Azelphur> Interesting, that does tempt me to get into
<Azelphur> shiny advertising revenue :3
<bokjhv> mmhphf .. I went for the MIUI thingy.
<Azelphur> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LG-GOOGLE-Nexus-4-16GB-Black-Unlocked-Smartphone-BNIB-/110977272495?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones&hash=item19d6c2caaf&autorefresh=true
<Azelphur> nexus 4's are getting ridiculous amounts on ebay o.O
<AlanBell> so you take a reasonable phone, add the awesome feature of not costing much, and people are prepared to pay well over the odds for it, thus discarding it's main feature
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> well it has the other awesome feature of actually possibly getting updates from time to time
<ali1234> but only if you buy it from google
<ali1234> why does TF2 linux need a special server?
<directhex> tf2 beta does. it's a different product
<ali1234> how does that make any sense?
<ali1234> i mean i get that it has to have a different product ID so that only beta users can install it
<directhex> tf2 has a steam appid of 440. tf2 beta has a steam appid of 520
<directhex> everyone on every platform can install either, but you can't interact between the two products
<ali1234> so if you go into TF2 beta and manually type in a regular TF2 server address, the steam DRM prevents you from connecting to the server?
<directhex> you don't need to be in the steam beta to use the tf2 beta. just run steam://install/520
<directhex> ali1234, not a drm question, an incompatible protocol question
<directhex> remember the old days, where e.g. quake 2 server & client needed the same version?
<ali1234> not really no
 * AlanBell remembers doom, when you needed to make up a serial cable
<ali1234> besides, those were the old days
<ali1234> or set up IPX netwrking
<AlanBell> and wolfenstein which I don't recall being multi player
<directhex> i think the main issue is the economy
<directhex> the beta and the "real" game are not part of the same economy. i.e. no hats for sale in the beta
<ali1234> the economy?
<ali1234> you mean like the hat exchange rate could crash due to it?
<directhex> yeah
<directhex> hats are big business
<ali1234> that kinda makes sense i suppose
<kvarley> directhex: You can play  tf2 without a beta invite? 0.o
<kvarley> directhex: Or does it just let you download it?
<directhex> kvarley, on windows you can play tf2 or tf2 beta, without any special things. on linux you cannot play tf2, and can play tf2 beta only with an invite
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, the protocols are different
<directhex> ali1234, it's an 8-figure economy!
<Azelphur> kvarley: you can't play tf2 without a beta invite, you can login to steam though
 * Azelphur is in the beta :p
<ali1234> beta schmeta
<ali1234> this stuff is too complicated
 * kvarley is envious of Azelphur
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> they should just make 1 beta
<ali1234> not millions
<kvarley> I bought and played Killing Floor via the Steam Beta
<kvarley> It's like Christmas has come early this year
<Azelphur> ali1234: there's the Linux beta, which is a closed beta
<kvarley> Been hoping for this for 7+ years :P
<Azelphur> and there's the team fortress 2 beta, where they test out new ideas before implementing them in the release version
<Azelphur> TF2 beta is like WoW's PTR
<ali1234> yeah eve has a server like that too
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> makes sense that they'd keep it seperate
<directhex> haaaaats
<Azelphur> Advanced hat simulator 2012.
<Azelphur> :p
<directhex> tf2 is the world's favourite war-themed hat simulator
<kvarley> haha
<ali1234> so the "TF2 for linux" just happens to be a build of TF2 beta, rather than TF2 stable
<directhex> and assassin's creed 3 is the most advanced pig petting simulator ever
<directhex> ali1234, bingo
<Azelphur> ali1234: no, it's both
<ali1234> the TF2 beta is not specifically a build for linux
<ali1234> ok, i get it now
<Azelphur> you can play TF2 stable or TF2 beta on Linux
<Azelphur> :)
<directhex> Azelphur, i can't
<directhex> i get "servers are busy" from appid 440
<Azelphur> directhex: you can play TF2 beta without being in the beta?
<directhex> Azelphur, i'm in the beta
<Azelphur> oh, fun
<directhex> Azelphur, but i don't have access to stable tf2
<Azelphur> :<
<directhex> i even paid for the orange box, damnit
<ali1234> what's the deal with invites?
<Azelphur> ali1234: invite is for the Linux beta
<AlanBell> you had to be registered in Launchpad for UDS
<ali1234> AlanBell: no i meant, how were you able to give one away? they're not tied to specific steam accounts? or is this just for UDS people?
<directhex> ali1234, so the way the beta is being implemented at the moment is by making the beta quit unless you own a specific game, "Steam for Linux". canonical are emailing people the CD key for this game, which they add to their steam accounts
<AlanBell> there was an email with a code in it because I was registered for UDS
<AlanBell> I don't know how it relates to steam accounts
<ali1234> yeah, figures, if registered for UDS they can't know your steam account (if you even have one)
<Azelphur> AlanBell: you probably start up steam and click redeem gift voucher
<AlanBell> dunno if it is even a personal key or not
<directhex> "Activate a Product on Steam"
<Azelphur> which would be amusing thinking about it, because you'd have to exploit steam to be able to do so
<directhex> or paste steam://open/activateproduct in your browser address bar
<popey> thats exactly what I did, redeem product on steam
<Azelphur> fun
<popey> got a mail with a code from valve
<popey> opened the client on windows and punched in the code, then unpacked the tarball on linux and ran it, job done
<Azelphur> you got a tarball? everyone else only got a .deb
<ali1234> i see
<directhex> unless borderlands 2 gets added to the beta in the next half hour, i think i'll reboot to windows
<AlanBell> so is that a personal single use code, or did everyone get the same code?
<Azelphur> I'd imagine it'd be personal single use
<ali1234> if everyone got the same code it would be getting passed around by now
<directhex> they're personal single use codes
<directhex> CD keys, like you find in a game box
<popey> Azelphur, i got it before it went public
<Azelphur> fun :)
<popey> it was encrypted too
<AlanBell> diplo is my gaming deputy
<selinuxium_> Hmm... Trying to install openvas on a 12.04 server apparently, the version of libmicrohttpd package was updated recently which has broken openvas. How do I go about installing a previous version?
<popey> depends if its still in the repo
<popey> apt-get install packagename=versionnumber
<popey> e.g. sudo apt-get install unity=5.16.0-0ubuntu1
<popey> or apt-get install package/pocket
<popey> e.g sudo apt-get install unity/precise
<selinuxium_> Oooh... Cheers popey  :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-17
<popey> interesting blog post from czajkowski, i didn't even notice the "guest post" line at the top till after I'd read it
<czajkowski> morning
<czajkowski> popey: aye trying to get the word out about stuff happening in Ireland from people who are still doing stuff byt not ubuntu members yet
<czajkowski> though I am gonna get Mike to go for membership soon
<czajkowski> but he just doesnt think he does stuff
<czajkowski> ;)
<daubers> czajkowski: Bit like a hackspacE?
<czajkowski> aye
<daubers> Speaking of which, I really should finish writing my arduino course
 * MartijnVdS installs his new (4 disk, instead of 2) NAS
<MartijnVdS> more room for the photos!
<daubers> Raid 10?
<daubers> Raid 5?
<MartijnVdS> 5
<MartijnVdS> well "magic" -- if I replaced two smaller disks with a bigger one, it'd magically create RAID1 on the "extra"  bit and LVM it together
<daubers> .......
<MartijnVdS> daubers: It's a Synology NAS, it's automatic :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Good thing you're not after performance!
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I'm after storage space ;)
<MartijnVdS> and I like how it's "normal" Linux RAID + LVM, not some custom disk format
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> gigabit++
<brobostigon> cool :)
<MartijnVdS> saves me so much time when transferring my data to my new NAS :)
<brobostigon> :D
<MartijnVdS> 45 MB/s .. not quite the full gigabit, but good enough for now
<daubers> MartijnVdS: SMB or NFS?
<MartijnVdS> smb
<MartijnVdS> I haven't figured out how to map UIDs
<MartijnVdS> oooh
<MartijnVdS> NEED_IDMAPD=yes
<MartijnVdS> Except it's a lot of work to set up
<Laney> oops
<Laney> I gave EDF a reading that was 1200kWh too high and almost ended up paying Â£120 extra
<Laney> 1000kWh*
<SpudULike> I'm sure they would have spotted the error .....
<SpudULike> ... not.
<Laney> no, they just issued the bill
<Laney> next reading wouldnt have made sense though ...
<MartijnVdS> next reading would have corrected it
<MartijnVdS> even if they were to send a guy around to check
<MartijnVdS> Laney: They complained about my gas reading :) "4 mÂ³? That's impossible!"
<ali1234> they are supposed to check it once a year even if you give them readings
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: They only have to check every 2-3 years on this side of the sea
<Aivaras> I am thinking of buing new Sony Vaio E14, may anyone has that same model?
<ali1234> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3257875&cid=42012165
<ali1234> people don't put a passphrase on their ssh keys?
<MartijnVdS> on automatic signing keys?
<MartijnVdS> or was this not one?
<ali1234> dunno about the freebsd key, just specifically refering to that comment
<BigRedS> lots of people use passhpraseless keys
<BigRedS> "I use keys so I don't need to type my password in every time"
<MartijnVdS> I use agent so I don't have to type in my password every time..
<SuperEngineer> Found a nice way of not having to dump Ubuntu from my old Acer netbook this week [12.04 Unity is a bit too heavy for it]
<SuperEngineer> switched to GL dock from ppa [more unity friendly]... back to luving Ubuntu on netbook
<SuperEngineer> [gl dock = Cairo Dock]
<SuperEngineer> Cairo Dock latest = lastest way of doing an Ubuntu Netbook Remix ;)
<Aivaras> What should I blame for strange mp3 playback?
<ali1234> blame pulseaudio
<ali1234> that's what everyone else does
<ali1234> but seriously
<ali1234> what software are you using to play the mp3s?
<Aivaras> any
<ali1234> hmm
<Aivaras> from vlc to Banshee
<ali1234> what about other formats?
<Aivaras> movies with AAC seams to be OK.
<ali1234> what exactly is strange?
<MartijnVdS> 48000 vs 44100?
<Aivaras> You know how old CD players in car plays?
<ali1234> like skipping?
<Aivaras> yeah
<Aivaras> skipping, repeating
<ali1234> could be PA buffer under/overruns
<MartijnVdS> could be corrupt files
<ali1234> which could be an audiorate problem
<ali1234> yeah, could be corrupt files
<Aivaras> And it seams that it happens more then I use external card then internal.
<ali1234> if the CD skips when you rip to MP3 it sounds exactly like a skipping CD... even if you do a digital rip
<MartijnVdS> buffer underruns.
<ali1234> yeah i would guess buffer problems in PA
<Aivaras> ps. files on phone and ipod works nice.
<MartijnVdS> the same files?
<Aivaras> yeah
<ali1234> so its not a problem in the files. ok
<ali1234> you could try tweaking the PA buffers
<Aivaras> how to do that?
<ali1234> i forgot how to do it but it helped me before
<MartijnVdS> Aivaras: is the machine exceptionally slow or old?
<ali1234> hmm... watch this video... hang on
<MartijnVdS> Aivaras: or the sound card exceptionally uncommon?
<Aivaras> Core 2 Duo
<Aivaras> Sound Blaster play!"
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC0wlaXbc_8
 * MartijnVdS lost track of Create Labs after the AWE32 ;)
<ali1234> listen to audio... sometimes it's ok, sometimes it's all broken up
<MartijnVdS> Creative Labs
<ali1234> is that how it sounds?
<ali1234> also check in audio properties for that flickering of sinks
<ali1234> sound settings -> applications
<Aivaras> no flickering
<Aivaras> one moment I will record how mine sounds
<ali1234> core 2 duo is kinda old but not so old that i would expect it to be unable to play an mp3
<ali1234> i remember my 486 couldn't play mp3s but when i upgraded to P133 it could
<MartijnVdS> my 486 could do it, but I couldn't do anything else
<ali1234> mine was not quite fast enough. no FPU i think. it couldn't play quake either
<MartijnVdS> 486SX!
<ali1234> the pentium used about 50% of CPU to play an mp3 :)
<Azelphur> TF2 runs on the open source radeon drivers, this is pretty awesome.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and intel drivers?
<ali1234> yes, yes it is
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: don't have any intel devices
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: heathen! ;)
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> native TF2 makes me very tempted to sell my 570 + 630 and go for a radeon with eyefinity
<ali1234> yeah i heard it's way better for multiple monitors
<Azelphur> indeed, nvidia deliberately bricks the drivers
<MartijnVdS> does nvidia still not do xrandr?
<Azelphur> 302+ does afaik
<Aivaras> no
<Aivaras> 304.48 and xrandr don't work.
 * Azelphur shrugs
<MartijnVdS> because with xrandr, they can't keep showing you their logo in their own tool
<Aivaras> What I hate about nvidia driver is that I can't plug ext screen without restarting xorg
<MartijnVdS> you can
<Aivaras> how?
<ali1234> nvidia-settings
<MartijnVdS> Plug in the screen, configure it, restart X,
<MartijnVdS> disconnect screen
<MartijnVdS> reconnect screen
<MartijnVdS> no more X restarts required :)
<MartijnVdS> and that
<Aivaras> and then you disconect screen you have space you can't see where all the windows goes to :D
<Aivaras> my sound seams to be working now :D
<Aivaras> It seams that problems starts then I run out of ram.
<ali1234> yeah memory exhaustion really hurts performance
<ali1234> specifically swap i/o
<ali1234> if you put 16GB of ram in a machine ubuntu will fly and after most of / gets cached you'll have still about 4GB free
<ali1234> but any swapping at all basically stops all other processes
<Aivaras> Now I have 3GB and most of the time none of them are free :D
<SuperEngineer> Q/ can I force a vidoe mode in Ubunty?
<SuperEngineer> [reason: trying to fully use a KVM switch to swap pooter monitor & tv - doing this causes wrong video on pooter monitor but correct option not available]
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> just set modelines in xorg.conf
<ali1234> your problem happens because kvm blocks monitor edid
<SuperEngineer> whooppeee!  thanks ali1234
 * SuperEngineer goes hunting & tyoing in xorg.conf
<SuperEngineer> [& especially appreciates knowing the reason why it was failing!]
<Aivaras> can 5 years old HDD (2.5", 250GB) maximux reading speed be ~60MB/s or that indicates problem?
<popey> evening
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1365510/ so where / what should i be adding
 * SuperEngineer waves evening backatya popey
<ali1234> you probably want to manually specify refresh rates instead
<ali1234> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=83973
<SuperEngineer> in the file or in monitor settings?
 * SuperEngineer looks at thread
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: thanks for that
<DJones> Has anybody come across this firm before www.ashadegreener.co.uk ? Offers free solar panels, you get free electricty during the day (if the sun is out I assume), they get to keep the government incentives, up to 25 year contracts, they pay the cost of the panels, doesn't seem to be a scam, featured on watchdog as a good example
<soreau> DJones: So they're just taking full advantage of the government incentive to profit while not actually charging the consumer? (but instead benefiting them by giving them free electricity..)
<DJones> thats how i read it
<soreau> Seems kinda like they're robbing the power company.. (at least from the power companies POV)
<soreau> DJones: That's cool. Is there anything like this in .us you know of?
<DJones> Not really robbing the power company, any excess electricity generated is fed back into the system and the power company doesn't end up providing the homeowner with electricity
<DJones> No idea about the US schemes
<soreau> Looks like they're installation area is fairly limited http://ashadegreener.co.uk/install-area/
<soreau> sounds legit, I'd definitely look into it if I owned a home in that area
<soreau> DJones: nice find, everyone loves free money ;)
<penguin42> surely there's no sunlight in Barnsley
<soreau> ah, so that's the catch
<soreau> DJones: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/sep/30/free-solar-panels-not-bargain
<DJones> That assumes you have the Â£10-Â£20K cost of having your own panels fitted though
<AlanBell> extend the mortgage to cover it
<AlanBell> don't think I have enough south facing roof
<DJones> Its my parents looking at it, they have a double fronted house which has masses of south facing roof
<penguin42> DJones: I think I'd check whether there are any insurance issues before doing it
<penguin42> DJones: And also what happens if you want to sell
<DJones> Yeah, looked at that, they insure it and if you sell the house, the owner takes over getting the benefit
<penguin42> DJones: What happens if they go under?
<DJones> Probably somebody buys the assets & takes over getting the governement grants, if nobody buys them out, you get to keep the panels
<penguin42> do the panels belong to them? If so do they have the right to remove them (if they were going under) and would they have to pay to return the roof to good condition
<DJones> I presume the panels belong to them, doubt they could remove them though
<ali1234> yeah, the feed-in tariff basically is robbing the power company
<ali1234> they are paying like 300% the going rate for the power
<ali1234> that's why it's better to buy your own panels
<penguin42> ali1234: Well, more the tax payers
<ali1234> the feed in tariff is worth 3x the electricity you pay for
<ali1234> no, not the tax payers - all the other customers of the power company
<penguin42> ali1234: There are some reports from Germany that solar helped reduce some of the peaks during the day, it's possible those would be the most expensive points when the power company would have to buy power (not sure if it works like that for them?)
<ali1234> of course not
<ali1234> they buy power several months in advance
<penguin42> ali1234: But there is hour-by-hour trading of power
<ali1234> yes, but that's power that was already bought several months earlier
<penguin42> oh
<ali1234> what happens is all the power companies guess how much power they will need in 6 months time
<ali1234> if they guess too low they go to one of the other power companies and buy some power from them
<penguin42> ali1234: But if they have feed in allocated to them does that mean they have less chance of having to buy from others?
<ali1234> so day-to-day fluctuations basically cancel out across the wider network
<ali1234> no, because again, they have to predict roughly how much they need 6 months in advance
<ali1234> so they take into account feed in
<penguin42> ah
<ali1234> their estimates are not wrong by a huge amount
<ali1234> one day they might be over capacity, another day, under
<ali1234> so today they are buying power, tomorrow selling it
<SuperEngineer> WHAT POWER CO'S DON'T FACTOR IN IS COST OF RECOVERY IN CASE OF NATIONAL DISATER
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Shhh!
<SuperEngineer> sorry for the shouting... didn't realise caps lock stilll on
<SuperEngineer> me bad
<ali1234> the thing is that the feed-in tariff is about 3x what the end user would pay for the same amount of electricity and the power co. has to buy it whether they need it or not
<AlanBell> hmm
 * AlanBell checks
<AlanBell> southern electric standard rate is 13.42p per kWh
<ali1234> so if you have enough solar panels to generate 1/3 of the electricity you use, getting free panels and free electricity is actually a bad deal in the long run
<ali1234> i don't know if it's really 3x :)
<ali1234> but it's certainly an extremely bad deal for the power co.
<AlanBell> FiT floor price for new solar PV export tarriff (the bit the electricity company has to buy) is 4.5p /kWh
 * SuperEngineer ponders enhancement to xchat... warn when about to send in caps ;)
<AlanBell> FiT generation tarrif for solar PV is around 14p/kWh
<AlanBell> so the "feed in" bit that the power company pays for is a decent deal for the power company (might not be a great deal, but it is less than they sell it for)
<penguin42> AlanBell: to be fair that's standard rate you're comparing again
<AlanBell> the generation tariff is not paid by the power company
<ali1234> solar PV can get you up to 45p/kWh
<AlanBell> http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/eligible/levels/
<ali1234> that's if you have a new install today
<ali1234> if you;ve had it for a year the rates are much higher
<AlanBell> http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/FITs/principles/export/
<ali1234> remember... there was a court case about it, because the new government wanted to drasticly cut the whole plan
<SuperEngineer> slightly aside - but somthing I've always wondered: what would be the cost of power supply via your own diesel generator?
<SuperEngineer> [apart from "variable"]
<AlanBell> the question is, who pays the generation tariff?
<ali1234> good question
<ali1234> SuperEngineer: "a modern diesel plant will consume between 0.28 and 0.4Â litres of fuel per kilowatt hour"
<ali1234> so about 40p/kWh
<SuperEngineer> hmmm
<ali1234> assuming diesel costs Â£1-Â£1.50
<SuperEngineer> ...& if one made one's own diesel? ;)
<ali1234> a good diesel generator doesn't need much maintenance
<ali1234> BUT you have to get a big one to get the efficiency
<ali1234> and they are loud too
<ali1234> basically you need a small building to put it in
<SuperEngineer> [when the land outside your place is full of sheep - that may not be difficult]
<ali1234> yeah, it would probably work if you live on a farm
<SuperEngineer> [not on a farm - but by a farm - so ground cost would be a one off "extra cost"]
<AlanBell> looks like the electricity company has to pay the generation tariff as well as the export tariff (the feed-in part)
<AlanBell> and yes, they just screw over the other customers to get the money
<Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nwfxx/Sound_It_Out/ worth a watch
<SuperEngineer> Laney: a Rolex or a Timex?
<Aivaras> Casio. :D
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> evening
<Pendulum> hiya
<czajkowski> am knackered
<czajkowski> poxy traffic
<AlanBell> have you been driving in it?
<SuperEngineer> a thought: with the news that microdaft is killing MSN next year & moving to Skype only...
<SuperEngineer> I need MSN for contact with cancer impaired releative [therefore no phone call -text only] is Skype on ubuntu ready for simple text only conversations [msn style]?
<AlanBell> skype works fine for text chatting (never used MSN so I don't know what MSN style is)
<AlanBell> I know what gangnam style is if that helps?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aye we got a zip car for the day and went down to drop off one of J motorbikes
<czajkowski> and drove a BMW 3 series for the day as I'd not been in one and he's just bought one
<czajkowski> may not be delivered till January :(
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: text chat is the bit concerning me... forget the "msn style" bit.  Thanks [& I want a video of AlanBell doing Gangnam Style pretty please!!!]
<AlanBell> not. going. to. happen.
<SuperEngineer> darn
<ali1234> skype works more or less perfectly
<ali1234> well, there are a few problems but they all have fixes
<ali1234> and it's mainly problems with audio/video
 * AlanBell notes Sam Spilsbury joining https://launchpad.net/~not-canonical
<christel> AlanBell gangnam style. i'd pay to see that.
<SuperEngineer> +1
<SuperEngineer> next u-uk podcast?
<christel> christmas special - video edition? :D
<SuperEngineer> [seems I have started a wish list here]
<SuperEngineer> let's all beg
<SuperEngineer> ...Â£Â£Â£'s to children in need foe AlanBell doing Gangnam?
<SuperEngineer> ...or Â£Â£Â£'sx2 for popey doing the same with him
 * AlanBell thinks christel and SuperEngineer are way too keen on this idea
<AlanBell> and there should be a christel and SuperEngineer gangnam video
 * SuperEngineer imagines both now muttering/swearing under their breath
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: It would, however, make a lovely title for next podcast
<christel> :o
<AlanBell> maybe one day I will do a podcast
<christel> with bells?
<MartijnVdS> christel: nah, he just whistles
<AlanBell> with chickens
<AlanBell> and free software
<MartijnVdS> (this is illegal in most counties)
<penguin42> AlanBell: Chickens doing gangnam style?
<AlanBell> dunno if podcasts are still the thing or if you have to do video these days
<AlanBell> google hangoutcasts
<MartijnVdS> you can do both
<MartijnVdS> I'm subscribed to a few podcasts that have both an audio version and a youtube channel where you can see people talking into microphones..
<christel> chickens doing gangnam style! love it :D
<ali1234> has anyone done like a linux call-in podcast? like rush limbaugh of open source?
<SuperEngineer> Ubuntu-
<MartijnVdS> Lugradio's voicemail section?
<SuperEngineer> podcast next title...
<SuperEngineer> we do it GangNamStle ;)
<SuperEngineer> with video
<AlanBell> that might work
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dPlkFPowCc
 * SuperEngineer watches
 * AlanBell thinks that chap is confused about the gender of his chicken
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UytSNlHw8J8 ?
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7snWiHvpwc&list=UU_6WXjvHxBEChRjA-ch9a7g&index=17&feature=plcp
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: chickens with feedback loops?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: yes!
<AlanBell> ah, that one is a boy
<SuperEngineer> & yes, he is confused
<ali1234> i'm never sure whether to feel bad for kubuntu developers or the chickens :/
<AlanBell> they are on Ubuntu Server now
<MartijnVdS> CD or DVD?
<AlanBell> CD
<Daviey> Good to see AlanBell embracing the cloud.
<AlanBell> the chickens like Maize as a Service
<SuperEngineer> going back to the chicken vid.... don't know who was more scary: the chick in the foreground ...or the chick in the background! ;)
<penguin42> a serving of chicken with open source
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: see my tweet of -sevveral- months ago! "I have a bottle of tomato ketchup I was given & it's got no lid. It's ok, it's free & open sauce ;)"
<popey> Myrtti, what is possuvarrasta ?
<Laney> I wonder why my UDS yubikey is ...
<Laney> any guesses?
 * popey guesses Laney means "where"
<popey> in the ubuntu bag?
<Laney> why it is missing? :P
<Laney> the ubuntu bag now contains a sleeping bag, but could be
<MartijnVdS> maybe airport security has it?
<Laney> just found a cache of ubuntu + linaro pens
<MartijnVdS> Tonight.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0078pw1
<Laney> yay found it
<Laney> safely tucked inside a pile of letter
<Laney> s
<MartijnVdS> I love how they put Night of the Living Dead on after 3 hours of Rolling Stones
<Aivaras> Is 50MB/s read speed for 5 years old laptop hdd is indication of problem or it's normal state?
<MartijnVdS> sounds normal enough
<penguin42> yeh
<Aivaras> oh, then it totaly sucks compared to new WD
<penguin42> Aivaras: Welcome to progress
<Aivaras> I was thinking that HDDs are progresing only by capacity and speed is similar.
<Aivaras> Now I have 100 vs 50. :D
<penguin42> Aivaras: As you up the density in the same space you get more data each time it spins
<penguin42> Aivaras: also newer drives tend to spin a bit faster (* may not be true on laptop)
<Aivaras> penguin42: they are 5400 RPM, while some are 7200
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> what penguin42 said, aerial density increase is a speed boost
<Aivaras> and some _server's_ hdds are 10.000 RPM
<penguin42> Aivaras: some are 15k
<daftykins> and consumer
<daftykins> my VMs on my desktop here run off a 10,000rpm 300GB WD velociraptor
<penguin42> Aivaras: However, if you don't need a very large one, treat yourself to an SSD - they're much faster
<Aivaras> Yeah, I know. I will get one for new laptop. Old one is lucky enoth to have 750GB + 250GB HDDs :D
<daftykins> SSDs for the OS and software, backed by large capacity mechanical drives is the way to go
<penguin42> nod
<Aivaras> btw guys, would sony vaio E14 wold be bad option?
<daftykins> for what?
<daftykins> got a link?
<Aivaras> HECHJZ
<Aivaras> sorry
<Aivaras> http://www.sony.co.uk/product/vaio-e-series
<MartijnVdS> Aivaras: gesundheit?
<Aivaras> press see all
<daftykins> ah, the word is 'areal' density
<daftykins> my bad
<daftykins> Aivaras: cheapest model? and what would the laptop be used for?
<Aivaras> I am thinkig about one with i5, 1600x900 sceen and no GPU
<MartijnVdS> Aivaras: Intel GPU, I guess then?
<MartijnVdS> built into the CPU
<penguin42> Aivaras: Stuff that uses Intel onboard CPU generally works well
<Aivaras> yeah. I ment no ext gpu.
<penguin42> Aivaras: Only laptops I know to stay away from Ubuntu at the moment are the newer Samsung's - they've got a really nasty EFI bug with Ubuntu - which is a shame because I like Sammy
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: the Chromebook is nice :)
<MartijnVdS> even though it's ARM-based
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: True
<Aivaras> my old samsung works crappy with new ubuntu
<daftykins> penguin42: prevents install / boot?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: It's just a bug on their EFI x86 ones recently; it completely bricks them
<MartijnVdS> it's a bit wobbly (resting it on my knee sometimes auto-presses the mouse pad/button while I'm typing)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I had a bricked EFI Dell a few weeks ago.. couldn't even get through POST to get into setup anymore
<penguin42> daftykins: bug 1040557
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1040557 in Ubuntu CD Images "UEFI boot live-usb bricks SAMSUNG 530U3C,np700z5c laptop" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040557
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: nasty, what caused the brick?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Do you know how you did that?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Setting it to boot from UEFI in the BIOS
<Aivaras> While it worked well from like 7.10 till 10.04. Now it sucks :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: or whatever it's all called now :)
<daftykins> crikey
<MartijnVdS> the pre-boot config thing
<daftykins> can't you just boot the normal style?
<MartijnVdS> you couldn't tell it to
<MartijnVdS> and resetting the BIOS (shorting the mainboard pins) didn't help either
<daftykins> ah, they started chopping that option off already eh?
<MartijnVdS> good thing it was a work PC, just send back to dell and get a new one
<daftykins> is that a new enough machine to be affected by all the secure boot jazz too?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: a lot of the BIOS EFI oimplementations look very very broken
<penguin42> daftykins: These failings tend not to be secure boot problems
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: well I could have told it to boot old-style.. but the boot process crashed before giving the option
<MartijnVdS> halfway through showing the Dell logo(!!)
<daftykins> wowzer
<ali1234> 1. buy 1000 laptops
<ali1234> 2. brick them all
<ali1234> 3. return for refund
<penguin42> 4. wait 6 months
<penguin42> 5. goto 1
<ali1234> 4. trollface... yeah!
<MartijnVdS> the next one I got (same model) worked
<MartijnVdS> maybe it was just a buggy firmware revision
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> and i bet there was a way to fix it anyway
<ali1234> i repaired a few "bricked" acers before
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: probably.. but I don't know all the magic keystrokes for resetting Dells :)
<daftykins> maybe just an update, or disabling the support as one of those bug posts says (granted, not the Dell, but anyway)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I spent half an hour on this one
<ali1234> normally you make a fat flash drive and put bios image on it then boot while holding a special key combo
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: except it wouldn't even get through POST
<ali1234> doesn't matter
<ali1234> neither did the acers
<MartijnVdS> oh it's lower-level than that even?
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> it's bad-bios-flash recovery
<daftykins> if it's key-combo style yeah it won't need POST
<ali1234> you don't even see anything on the screen
<ali1234> i think it just makes it load the bios image directly to ram, and then it auto-self-repairs
<MartijnVdS> hardcore :)
<penguin42> yeh, I mean it depends just where the bug is and that's pot luck; if it's early enough even that's not going to work
<MartijnVdS> I figured I'd have to flash the BIOS using SPI or JTAG
<MartijnVdS> I've unbricked routers with those :)
<ali1234> every computer should have a backup system in mask rom
<ali1234> if it doesn't it's trash
<daftykins> doesn't that require a larger chip that puts board prices up? guess such costs are negligible now?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> put it in the motherboard chipset
<ali1234> even fake chinese ipod have this
<MartijnVdS> it doesn't have to be fancy.. just recovery-mode
<ali1234> it can be done in under 1kb...
<ali1234> possibly not on x86-asm though
<ali1234> maybe 2kb there...
<Aivaras> still chips with kbs of memmory are cheap
<ali1234> you probably pay more for the programmer who actually knows how to write x86-asm, than for the total extra hardware cost for all the units you sell
<daftykins> i wonder how most motherboards are implementing their 'crashfree BIOS' type setups, since nobody needs gigabyte's crazy dual-BIOS chip implementation :D
<ali1234> the dual bios thing is great cos you can pull the chip from a bad board and plug it into the second bios slot to reflash it
<ali1234> i keep a old gigabyte board around for this reason
<daftykins> that should be less and less likely now though, i'd hope
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> plus most bios are soldered to the board anyway these days
<daftykins> due to whatever it is the companies are up to
<daftykins> aww :(
<amoun> irc.hackthissite.org/6667
<daftykins> ?
<andylockran> hey all
<andylockran> has anyone had experience with using a mobile framework (sencha/cordova/phonegap .etc) - and any recommendations?
<^jelly^> hello :)
<andylockran> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-18
<aeroaks> join /#py2c
<aeroaks> join
<christel> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * christel snuggles MartijnVdS 
<MartijnVdS> It's going to be a cold run today :(
<christel> yes, i suspect it would -- i woke up to a pretty but cold landscape covered in frost :)
<MartijnVdS> oh it's about 7-8Â°C here
<MartijnVdS> but there's a cold wind
<MartijnVdS> good thing I have winter running gear ;)
<christel> :)
<AlanBell> good news everybody http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20356613
<ali1234> i got consecutive bugs again
<ali1234> bug report rate has really dropped recently
<jacobw> hallo
<jacobw> i'm looking for a photo manager that lets me put photos in to events and export the all the photos in an event as a set of similary formatted PNGs
<jacobw> like "all these photos are from this party, color correct and scale them all to 500x500 and put them in this folder"
<jacobw> maybe this function has a name that i don't know yet :)
<ali1234> popey: bug #770258 - did you see it on none-nvidia hardware?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 770258 in linux (Ubuntu) "Extremely high latency when writing to USB drives." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770258
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<jacobw> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
<popey> ali1234, yes, intel laptop
<ali1234> hmm. i can't reproduce with mainline
<ali1234> my brother: "how to i get usb flash drive on ubuntu?"
<ali1234> me: "what version are you using?"
<ali1234> my brother: "knoppix"
<brobostigon> lol
<brobostigon> dd :)
<ali1234> i think he even burned it to a cdr
<penguin42> don't suppose anyone has ever got DOS booting in kvm?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: they have
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Don't suppose you know how? I've got both DRDOS and OpenDOS failing
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Guest_Support_Status#Others
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: "Do not load emm386.exe"
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: That's MSDOS, the FreeDOS one says it just works
<MartijnVdS> I think it should yes
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: FreeDOS boots from it's install CD and seems to work OK, but the install to the hard drive just hangs
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: chainloading it from GRUB doesn't seem to help either
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: are you using libvirt "hardware" or IDE emulation?
<penguin42> IDE
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: And the fact that I can install onto it means that the BIOS hooks for accessing the drive are OK
<Aivaras> Is it possible to test ram reading speed in MB/s?
<penguin42> there are various benchmarks/tests that should be able to do that
<penguin42> there are probably some nice ones, I like LMBench though - it'll measure *everything* but is rather complex
<Aivaras> ok, thanks :)
<SuperEngineer> My using a KVM switch in reverse experiment [1 pc switching between monitor & TV] is a success!
<SuperEngineer> Total cost: 1x9v 6oomA power pack. To those who offered advice, thank you.
<simondbull> Hey guys, just wanted ask a question. I am running Ubuntu 12.10, and am suffering from regular lock-ups (around 2 a day). What usually happens is that Firefox or Empathy force quits, and then I am randomly logged out. When I log back in, X dies. Any suggestions about what may be causing the issue? It would be highly appreciated. Thanks, Simon.
<ali1234> nouveau
<simondbull> ali1234, I'm running Intel :)
<ali1234> ok then, intel driver
<ali1234> it's just as bad
<ahayzen> ali1234, i'm running exactly the same hardware and have had no lockups
<ali1234> exactly the same hardware?
<ahayzen> ali1234, same laptops
<ali1234> then it's bad ram
<ahayzen> ali1234, it seems more related to flash usage...any log files tht we could look at to find the issue?
<ali1234> dmesg
<ahayzen> ali1234, does the issue have to be in the same session?
<ali1234> yes
<EXORCIST> UBUNTU IS QUITE BLOATED
<EXORCIST> MY CAPS LOCK IS BROKEN BECVAOUSE OF UBUNTU
<EXORCIST> HELP ! HELP!
 * Azelphur nudges popey
<popey> oh dear
<Azelphur> something is under our bridge sir :(
<Azelphur> :)
<ahayzen> :)
<popey> ta
<directhex> man, the quality of trolls has fallen these days :(
<Azelphur> indeed
<directhex> it's not trolling if it's obvious.
<directhex> trolling is a art
<directhex> you need to get under their skin
<IdleOne> that sort gives the really bad (read good) trolls a bad name
<directhex> it's the subtle things that work, the tiny little stuff that makes most normal people lose there cool
<EXORCIST> F8CK.
<directhex> and this is why web irc is crap
<Azelphur> directhex: not really, he just kicked not banned, he's back on exactly the same host
<Gargoyle> Evening!
<popey> one of the reasons
<directhex> one of the reasons
<IdleOne> kick it, kick it hard.
<IdleOne> break off a foot
<popey> Sunday evenings in Turkey are clearly dull.
<directhex> IdleOne, again, there is no pleasure in eliminating a bad troll
<Gargoyle> Is there a correct way to fully clean up un-installed software? I removed apache2, and it left behind config files, log files and it's logrotate and cron scripts!
<directhex> there's no battle of wits involved. it's just cleaning the toilet, which is not an enjoyable task
<popey> sudo apt-get autore-move --purge
<popey> Gargoyle, ^^
<directhex> Gargoyle, yeah, so this is called "purge"
<popey> er
<IdleOne> Gargoyle: remove --purge package
<popey> minus the typo
<popey> sudo apt-get autoremove --purge
<IdleOne> that works also
<Gargoyle> So if I had already done the autoremove, I can't do it again with --purge?
<IdleOne> try
<popey> probably need to reinstall the package and remove again with --purge
<directhex> dpkg accepts the --purge flag for packages not currently installed
<directhex> but you need to know the exact package name
<popey> should be able to get that from /var/log/dpkg.log
<popey> if it was recently removed
<Gargoyle> hmm. It's not just log / config files!
<Gargoyle> this seems to be a lot of "leftovers" even for just a normal "remove". http://pastie.org/private/nvmji1t8y3khbjmqtpmo2a is this standard?
<popey> apache2 isnt the package name
<popey> you may have something like apache2-mpm-prefork installed
<Darael> popey: Given that it was apt-get removed, I'd use /var/log/apt/history.log rather than /var/log/dpkg.log since it gives all relevant package names at once.
<directhex> /usr/sbin/apache2 is provided by one of the apache back-end packages
<directhex> apache2-mpm-event, apache2-mpm-itk, apache2-mpm-prefork, apache2-mpm-worker
<popey> apache2-mpm-event
<popey> if you'd used autoremove it probably have worked
<popey> because apache2-mpm-event got pulled in by apache2
<Gargoyle> I did autoremove after doing apt-get remove apache2.
<Gargoyle> Have you been having trouble with EXORCIST in here ?
<directhex> "trouble"
<directhex> low quality trolling
<penguin42> Gargoyle: He's in #ubuntu-bugs at the moment offering to sell an exploit
<directhex> he's a troll, but this network is full of people who are far too fluffy to apply k-lines when required
<Laney> too much rising to the bait
<Laney> needs a more global soltuion
<directhex> anyone from freenode/staff about in here, for quick resolution?
<penguin42> I think you can always ask in #ops ?
<popey> loco teams are dealt with in #ubuntu-irc
<Laney> /stats p
<Pendulum> or, probably, #ubuntu-irc since it's in Ubuntu namespace (to at least get him out of Ubuntu channels)
<popey> -ops is for core channels
<Gargoyle> I think I'll ask in ops. As he is PM'ing people as such:- http://pastie.org/private/zxgrpsil7lbthgca0sx0vw
<Gargoyle> So it's not just an ubuntu issue!
<popey> yes, I'm getting that kind of thing too
<popey> nvm
<directhex> aha!
<popey> there we go
<directhex> he was trying the switcheroo in #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-steam, i.e. summon an op and try to get the people fingering him kickbanned
<directhex> which would work fine if ubuntu weren't a community
<SuperEngineer> this is me being an under-bridge-dweller...
<SuperEngineer> ...Ubuntu is bad, so bad, so very bad...
<SuperEngineer> ...so bad I only have it installed on three pooters...
<SuperEngineer> - I've only got the 3 to install it on ;)
<SuperEngineer> [unless someone wants to send me a forth?]
 * penguin42 throws his spare P200 at SuperEngineer
<directhex> fourth.
<directhex> forth is a programming language
<Laney> now i want to listen to under the bridge
<Laney> all saints version
<penguin42> directhex: 2 2 + .
<SuperEngineer> and a bridge
 * SuperEngineer thanks penguin42 
<Gargoyle> Quick check I have understood the docs properly - Is the command at the bottom of the paste the correct one to clean up? http://pastie.org/private/77eiwlukfoh80zydi0zna
<popey> i wouldn't
<popey> i would sudo apt-get autoremove --purge apache2-utils apache2.2-bin apache2.2-common libapache2-mod-php5
<Gargoyle> What's the difference / concequence of using dpkg over apt-get autoremove?
<popey> dpkg wont remove deps, apt-get autoremove will
<Gargoyle> Ahh cool.
<ali1234> how does one post an image on reddit?
<Azelphur> ali1234: upload it to imgur then post the link
<ali1234> i see
<X3N> What's the status of GNOME on ubuntu? is it a supported option at all?
<brobostigon> !info ubuntu-gnome-desktop
<lubotu3> ubuntu-gnome-desktop (source: ubuntu-gnome-meta): The Ubuntu GNOME Remix desktop system. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2 (quantal), package size 3 kB, installed size 26 kB
<brobostigon> X3N: look up ubuntu gnome remix.
<brobostigon> !info gnome-shell
<lubotu3> gnome-shell (source: gnome-shell): graphical shell for the GNOME desktop. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.5.91-0ubuntu1 (quantal), package size 342 kB, installed size 933 kB
<popey> X3N, jbicha is working on a gnome based flavour
<X3N> hmm
<X3N> it's a bit odd that there are thing like gnome-shell in the main repos but it won't really work correctly
<brobostigon> X3N: i have tested it, it does work correctly, including gdm3 etc.
<X3N> brobostigon: from the main repos ?
<brobostigon> X3N: yep.
<X3N> What about things like the indicator? is there an gnome-shell extension to support that?
<brobostigon> X3N: define, indicator?
<X3N> http://unity.ubuntu.com/projects/appindicators/
<X3N> there are a bunch of applications that use that either natively or have been patched in ubuntu
<brobostigon> X3N: those are designed for unity, they wont work in gnome-shell. that i know of.
<X3N> so you can't use gtk-recordmydesktop for instance?
<brobostigon> X3N: last time i tried that, here in debian, with gnome-shell it did work, yes.
<X3N> on debian it would work, because it's not patched
<brobostigon> X3N: so i see no reason why it shouldnt work.
<brobostigon> X3N: i have ubuntu 12.10 here, with gnome-shell 3.6, however havent tried it, so couldnt tell you.
<ali1234> X3N: unity allows old style tray icons too
<ali1234> but apps have to be whitelisted
<ali1234> also gnome-panel still works fine
<ali1234> it fully supports both systray and indicators
<ali1234> gnome remix is not much better than the standard desktop tbh
<ali1234> no U1, no compiz, no indicators
<X3N> I read that with gnome-panel you need to add the applet / indicator-applet-complete
<ali1234> yeah, it's installed by default
<ali1234> it's part of gnome-fallback-session
<X3N> do you know if you have to add it manually or not?
<ali1234> add what?
<X3N> the panel applet
<ali1234> no, it's on panel by default
<ali1234> it doesn't work properly on 12.04 though
<ali1234> you need 12.10
<X3N> ah
<X3N> all a bit of a mess
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> for best results you have to use compiz 0.8, even on 12.10 there's problems
<X3N> I was doing detection of whether or not to use the indicator based on whether the library for it is installed, but if people are switching between unity and gnome that kind of goes to pot
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> however, there is a way to do it
<ali1234> i don't know what it is, but there is a way
<ali1234> and as mentioned, gnome-panel fully supports both ways at the same time
<ali1234> similar related bug, consider this "how not to do it" : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/+bug/1074314
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1074314 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime configuration panel only works in Unity session" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<d3ngar> Hello there
<d3ngar> I seem to have a problem with my VPN server
<d3ngar> It doesn't seem to be listening
<d3ngar> Albeit running
<dwatkins> d3ngar: can you check if the ports are in use by the process, or whether it's possible to access those ports through the firewall (if applicable)?
<d3ngar> No, they were simply not listed in netstat -anp | grep pptpd
<d3ngar> Or the one port
<dwatkins> does fuser $PORT/tcp (replacing as appropriate) show the VPN process listening on that one?
<d3ngar> it is now
<d3ngar> I uninstalled pptpd
<d3ngar> and reinstalled
<d3ngar> I can see the port listening now
<d3ngar> But I still can't connect
<d3ngar> The log file is not at all helpful
<dwatkins> can you telnet to the port and at least confirm it's listening from the external system?
<d3ngar> http://pastebin.com/p18S9zGc
<dwatkins> i.e. that it's accepting connections
<d3ngar> Yes
<d3ngar> It is accepting connections
<dwatkins> The format of wtmp is a little hoopy, I think 'last' reads it.
<dwatkins> ok, so it's either a client or server configuration issue, assuming it's the right process that's listening.
<d3ngar> I guess when telnet says it's connected, it is connected?
<d3ngar> telnet host 1723?
<dwatkins> actually, no
<d3ngar> :/
<dwatkins> it is connected when you get a response, or can send text, iirc
<d3ngar> Sorry?
<dwatkins> sorry, I'm not familiar with any vpn software, so all I can do is help on the IP/tcp side
<d3ngar> how do I get a response?
<dwatkins> no idea, send it some text perhaps
<dwatkins> if it just sits there telling you the control character, it may not be connected
<d3ngar> I keep getting connection closed by foreign host
<dwatkins> what's between you and the machine in question, routers? firewalls?
<d3ngar> Router, yes
<d3ngar> But the port is open
<d3ngar> (it used to work, so I'm surprised to have difficulties now)
<d3ngar> I doubt it's the router
<dwatkins> hmm, what changed?
<d3ngar> System
<d3ngar> I tried upgrading to 12.04
<d3ngar> But there were some problems and I ended up re-installing the whole system
<dwatkins> ah ok
<dwatkins> in that case, it's most likely the VPN configuration on the server.
<d3ngar> I also get a connection closed error from the local host
<d3ngar> (That's via telnet)
<d3ngar> Why is there no log, I wonder?
<dwatkins> not even anything recently appended in /var/log?
<d3ngar> I'm not familiar with that file
<d3ngar> I don't have it, apparently
<d3ngar> /var/log?
<dwatkins> cd /var/log ; ls -lrt
<dwatkins> reverse temporal order
<dwatkins> if a logfile in there is being written to, it should show a timestamp of when you connected, or the syslog might be being used
<d3ngar> yes
<d3ngar> It's the wtmp file
<d3ngar> But there is nothing notable in there
<dwatkins> hmm, that file just contains login records
<d3ngar> It has the gibberish in there that I posted to pastebin
<dwatkins> yeah, see the output of 'last' for human readable format, iirc
<d3ngar> When I used last, there was only a message:
<d3ngar> wtmp begins Mon Nov 12 16:11:32 2012
<d3ngar> Otherwise the file is empty
<dwatkins> That's strange, my 'last' output begins with a note about my current login. Are you logged in?
<d3ngar> logged in?
<d3ngar> On the remote host?
<d3ngar> Yes, via SSH
<dwatkins> Strange that it's not being updated, I'm running 11.04; not sure if it's changed or something.
<d3ngar> mmm
<X3N> any python peeps about?
<X3N> if someone could try in a python console, from gir.repository import AppIndicator3; AppIndicator3.init ()
<X3N> that would be helpful :)
<popey> ImportError: No module named gir.repository
<X3N> sorry, should have been gi.repository
<popey> X3N, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1368919/
<X3N> thanks
<simondbull> Hey everyone. Been having issues with 12.10, where it's been randomly logging off and freezing. I have dmesg'ed it, and put the output in pastebin http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1368906/ . Hope you can help. Thanks, Simon
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-11
<RaycisCharles> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateapokaiwhenuakitanatahu
<penguin42> .who
<diddledan> .me
<diddledan> wait
<diddledan> what?
<penguin42> where?
<AlanBell> when?
<diddledan> oh why
<penguin42> AlanBell: Why have all the eggs in your G+ picture got small holes/dimples in
<AlanBell> I have a little tool for poking holes in them, it lets the steam out of the bubble of air that sits on the fat end of the egg
<AlanBell> stops them cracking while they boil
<penguin42> well, there you go
<AlanBell> the thing that they are sitting in is a water bath boiler
<AlanBell> basically steam cooks them
<penguin42> is this good?
<AlanBell> well it can do boiled eggs to various consistencies, so if you want the yolk to be a tiny little bit runny in the centre then I can do that
<penguin42> hmm ok
 * penguin42 guesses AlanBell must eat a lot of eggs
<diddledan> eggs++
<AlanBell> not masses, production is very low at the moment
<Myrtti> meh.
<MooDoo> that good eh Myrtti
<Myrtti> yeah.
<MooDoo> hugs
<Myrtti> I flashed the Galaxy Nexus I have my Finnish sim in with Ubuntu Touch last week, woke up to my bluetooth speaker going all rattattatta, saw a tiny flash of something and it was gone on the phone
<Myrtti> spent some few minutes wondering where the hell the call log was (popey told me) - turns out it was of course
<Myrtti> a telemarketer.
<MooDoo> sigh
<ali1234> popey is going to be busy when they release that thing for real
<Myrtti> and I was getting all panicky about it being a phone call from a hospital that my sisters house had burnt down or something
<Myrtti> (I rarely get any phonecalls)
<directhex> saucy upgrade time.
<ali1234> has anyone tried KDE connect?
<ali1234> i kinda want to use their backend to run an indicator
<shauno> I might be 8 years out of date, but .. they spelt it with a C?
<ali1234> KDE is all like, business-y now
<ali1234> which means they had to stop using K everywhere
<shauno> that's just wrong
<ali1234> also, Konnect was probably already taken
<ali1234> http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=16663
<ali1234> anywhoooo
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings
<popey> Pip pip
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice curry on Saturday?
<popey> Very!
<popey> I had a 'special' which had chicken pieces in a sauce mostly made of minced lamb. Was very nice
<popey> lots of red wine etc
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not been to We. Been to the little Thai place on the corner which was nice recently.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Claire driving then ;-)
<popey> no, one of the other mums came and picked us up!
<popey> then taxi back
<popey> \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
 * AlanBell had a naga chicken curry on saturday
<MooDoo> yum
<AlanBell> it was very yum
<MooDoo> I love naga chillies
<TheOpenSourcerer> Me too :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Thing 1 has a weird inset day today. He's going in for 1 class from 9 - 9:50 then I need to pick him up... So will be at home today.
<DJones> I always think of Naga as being snake related
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: ok, I will plug raspberry pi things into your monitor :)
<AlanBell> DJones: lots of chillies have fearsome names like that
<DJones> Heh, yeah I've noticed that trend
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't know how people who work in "normal" jobs (9-5) manage.
 * TheOpenSourcerer grew Naga Viper this year - An awesomely hot chilli
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: I have similar issues, I work through my lunches to cover the weird times that school seem to be imposing just so I have 'flex' time
<diplo> Even though my company doesn't offer flexi time
<DJones> AlanBell: Have you seen this http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/11/personal_web_and_mail_server_for_raspberry_pi_seeks_cash/
<mungbean> diplo: there's 2 types of flexi time though
<mungbean> "flexible working hours" and "i'll be in late this morning guys but i'll work a bit late too"
<AlanBell> and "I am off to lunch, might not be back"
<diplo> yeah, pretty much the latter one for me.
<ali1234> what about "i'll be in later" - shows up at 4.55pm, starts meeting (reserved for management)
<BigRedS> DJones: that looks like a problem that's already been repeatedly solved with differing degrees of completeness
<directhex> ok, saucy.
<shauno> running a mailserver on a pi does not sound fun :/
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Origami Day! :-D
<AlanBell> DJones: interesting, I can't quite see the attraction of a non-diy solution when you are using a pi as the platform
<BigRedS> shauno: if you can find a static IP address to plug it into then it should be fine
<BigRedS> aside from mail generally not being fun :)
<shauno> a static ip that has sane rdns and isn't blocked by half the planet simply for being a residential line
<DJones> Urgh, it comes to something when you have to go to work for a rest
<dwatkins> If that Raspberry Pi installation DJones mentioned runs an open proxy, most IRC networks won't allow you on from it.
<ali1234> why would you be irc'ing from your web/email server?
<ali1234> (please ignore the fact that I do this)
<dwatkins> ali1234: as do I :)
<mungbean> why would you be running an open proxy?
<dwatkins> mungbean: I wouldn't (mine is only open to specific IP addresses)
<ali1234> i think the point here is, nobody is going to have a raspberry pi hosted in a datacentre, it will be in their house. therefore there's no benefit to IRC'ing from it
<AlanBell> I consider it good practice to IRC from your most important production machine
<ali1234> it does mean that i know instantly if there's a problem
<shauno> ^ this.  best uptime monitor there is
<AlanBell> (I am not as it happens)
<dwatkins> ali1234: if someone doesn't have a hosted server, but they do run a Pi at home that's always on, they might use it as an IRC server/bouncer
<ali1234> ah, i don't actually use a bouncer
<dwatkins> I use irssi in a screen session, but I know people who use bouncers.
<ali1234> i use ssh socks proxy purely to avoid firewalls
<ali1234> i actually just run pidgin on my desktop through it
<dwatkins> Yeah, that's also useful, as it having an external machine I can shell to to do hostname lookups from the outside.
<dwatkins> There are also web-based IRC clients, of course, but for that you may as well use mibbit, I guess.
<shauno> I think if he really wants to wrest control from google, he'd be better served trying to create a webmail client that can at least match it
<ali1234> yes, absolutely
<ali1234> or a native one for that matter
<dwatkins> There are already a number of solutions for that sort of thing, but I guess he's bringing them toether in a preconfigured image.
<shauno> along with the search / spam control behind it that actually works
<dwatkins> gmail's spam control seems to be pretty effective
<ali1234> it's damn near bulletproof
<shauno> right, which is why he'd need to come anywhere close to it
<ali1234> i don't even care about hiding my email address from spammers
<shauno> sticking it on a pi rates high on the trendy factor, but doesn't actually answer why people are using google in the first place
 * dwatkins ponders getting a flu jab
<dwatkins> My Raspberry Pi does one thing, and it does it very well. If I want to quickly check something is registered correctly in DNS from another machine, it's also useful, but I prefer the idea of having discrete devices for simple tasks.
<mungbean> anecdotally i've heard of a lot of people getting a cold for 5 days after the4 flu jab
<dwatkins> (granted, that one thing involves a number of components, but it's not running at 100% CPU usage all day long)
<ali1234> dwatkins: no, you're supposed to want a single device that does everything, in mobile form factor
<dwatkins> mungbean: yeah, I was told it's not worth the potential risk if you're not already at risk.
<dwatkins> ali1234: but I have a laptop for that ;)
<ali1234> mobile phone
<dwatkins> ah yes, the Edge
<dwatkins> My phone gets hot enough listening to the radio.
<ali1234> which reminds me of what i was doing an hour ago
<shauno> my little mifi lives at work.  comes in handy for things like poking dns externally, wasting 7hrs55m a day on reddit, etc
<mungbean> gnome system monitor takes 20% of CPU , doesn't that rather skew the results ?
<dwatkins> I think I have my reddit traffic proxied via home, it's a while since I set foxyproxy up.
<ali1234> yes, yes it does
<dwatkins> mungbean: indeed, as with most task manager type apps
<mungbean> why so intensive ?
<ali1234> it's all those svg graphs, they are rendered as vector curves
<mungbean> its not hard to make a lightweight cpu monitior?
<ali1234> if you have 4x CPU, it uses 4x as much CPU to render
<dwatkins> xload :D
<shauno> I eventually gave up fighting with proxies at work.  seems the easiest way to obey the network rules, is to not use their network
<MartijnVdS> that, + a 4G mifi = win :)
<shauno> I live in 1987land, I'm happy 3g works
<dwatkins> I was hesitant to get a phone without a numberpad.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: 1987land?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: â¥ my nexus 5
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I have an HTC Desire HD ;)
<dwatkins> my they have big screens
<MartijnVdS> yeah, but not quite "Note"-esque
<shauno> "all the better to see you with"?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that's cameras
<dwatkins> I don't think I have big enough pockets for modern phones.
<MartijnVdS> yeah, that's starting to become a problem
<dwatkins> this is my favourite solution to modern phones not having a keypad: http://static.freeware4android.net/data/programs/images/Rotary-Dialer-Android_1_28612.png
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: does it also make the noises?
<shauno> dwatkins: surely https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/8929 ?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, that's what I use it for (or one of these)
<dwatkins> shauno: I have one of those at home ;)
<dwatkins> oh, not the portable one
<shauno> but this one's bluetooth so you can throw it in your manbag with your tabletphone :
<dwatkins> I do have a wireless bluetooth thing that looks like a handset from a rotary phone, and an actual 1950s GPO telephone, though
<dwatkins> nice, shauno
<shauno> yeah I've seen a few of those.  cabled 'n all.  sticking the dialer in there is a neat trick through
<shauno> my main problem with touchscreens is that they're near-useless in the rain.  novelty apps become just as frustrating at that point
<dwatkins> also useless for the blind, or near-as, I assume
<AlanBell> not at all
<AlanBell> loads of blind people have iphones
<dwatkins> I guess the voice feedback might be handy
<AlanBell> it is absolute positioning, so something in the top left, is in the top left
<AlanBell> with a mouse that doesn't work if you don't know where the pointer is starting from
<shauno> I gotta say, fanboy aside, apple seem to have the hang of accessibility
<dwatkins> I was very impressed with the quality of the text-to-speech voice on my Mac.
<AlanBell> gnome 2 was getting quite good
<dwatkins> ...and then unity ;)
<AlanBell> indeed
<AlanBell> or a general focus on visual design at all costs
<dwatkins> I'm confused by the current debate about Mir versus its rival, but need to read-up on it to know more.
<dwatkins> I was upset you couldn't move the taskbar.
<AlanBell> visual design :)
<dwatkins> I assume it's all related to Ubuntu phone somehow.
<shauno> I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention, but that debate appears to be more politics than anything else
<dwatkins> shauno: yeah, I think I'd rather just switch to Gnome 3.
<bashrc> I think they call it the unity bar, and I think the idea is that it's always supposed to be in a consistent place across devices
<bashrc> regardless of user preferences
<shauno> well, I mean mir vs wayland vs X vs whatever else
<AlanBell> Wayland vs Mir is an odd thing, everyone has an opinion, but there has been practically no information that end users understand to give an informed opinion
<shauno> everything I've heard so far sounds like parents bickering at a beauty pageant for 4yos
<dwatkins> indeed, I agree X is old and crusty, but I gather there have been certain decisions surrounding Mir which were made without involving the community.
<dwatkins> So Wayland sounds to me like the better option because it's actually been made with collaboration, but I might be missing something.
<bashrc> with Mir vs Wayland I think the main beef was just duplication of effort.  It would have been nice if everyone was pulling in the same direction
<dwatkins> As for the unity bar, bashrc - I can see the point, but when I have two monitors, I don't want it cluttering up the middle, I just want to be able to change stuff.
<AlanBell> which one gets me wobbly windows?
<AlanBell> or a cube of desktops?
<dwatkins> ali1234: that's one of the reasons I want Gnome 3 ;)
<dwatkins> and that's the other ;)
<Laney> I used to love drawing fire on the screen
<dwatkins> simple little things...
<Laney> happy days
<AlanBell> fire on the screen is cool too, I like the stars that orbit the mouse
<AlanBell> but neither the wayland people or the Mir people say anything about bling
<ali1234> wat
<shauno> you've just made a pretty good case against displays in general
<AlanBell> it is all about rendering flat windows onto a flat screen
<AlanBell> where is my 3d desktop that was in Jurassic Park?
<ali1234> "hmm we need to render some 2d rectangles onto a 2d display. i know, let's use incredibly expensive hardware designed for rendering 3d graphics."
<dwatkins> AlanBell: http://fsv.sourceforge.net/
<AlanBell> the 3d hardware is incredibly fast, so it is a good thing to use it
<dwatkins> I used to run the app they used in Jurassic Park on an Indy, it was hilarious
<dwatkins> FSV is a port of the IRIX app they used in the film.
<AlanBell> yup
<ali1234> AlanBell: the thing is, it's not
<ali1234> the 3d hardware only wins if you are doing animation, effects, transparency
<dwatkins> nostalgia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaRHU1XxMJQ
<shauno> I'm not sure "use it because it's there" is always a good thing.  eg, I have a battery.  I believe they're expecting Mir to show up in ubuntu phone too
<ali1234> if you are doing simple windowing, painter's algorithm and dirty rectangles on the CPU absoluely blows away anything you can do with a GPU
<AlanBell> ali1234: yes, so using it and then having a flat desktop with no animation, effects or transparency is a bit of a waste
<ali1234> yes
<dwatkins> I agree effects are a waste, but it makes dealing with some boring applications just that little bit more fun.
<ali1234> another way of looking at it is that if you don't need effects, not using the GPU will give you a better experience, if you are using a desktop that supports that
<dwatkins> that reminds me, I need to renew my parking permit
<AlanBell> they are not saying "this will fix window shadows and make them awsome" or even the top bar shadow, or some cool thing with the dash or launcher
<dwatkins> I thought Mir was all about rewriting the graphical stack to be all modern and portable to phones.
<bashrc> yes, I think that's the idea
<AlanBell> yup, with server allocated buffers which is apparently a good thing for small arm devices
<AlanBell> but I am not sure why I should care
<ali1234> dwatkins: it is. unfortunately the modern ideas on how to do graphics = "you must have lots of animation, and you must use the GPU"
<shauno> I do think it's part of why linux can't even spell power management on my laptop :/
<popey> shauno: mir is already in ubuntu phone
<Myrtti> Leapmotion is in Amazon offers of the day at 11
<Myrtti> if anyone is interested
<mungbean> hwo much?
<Myrtti> dunno yet
<Myrtti> it's 69 now
<bashrc> I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with making use of the GPU - so long as it's not vendor specific
<Myrtti> well, 70
<shauno> I just don't trust linux desktops to do it well, unfortunately.  my laptop gets 8-9 hours under OSX, ~4 hours under XP, and about 90 minutes with ubuntu 12.04.  something is horribly wrong.
<AlanBell> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/09/leap-motion-desktop-control-on-linu that is kinda cool
<mungbean> hp chromebooks are cheapycheap
<andylockran> hey guys - what's the best way to setup a port forward on a linux box?
<andylockran> i.e. I've got a box setup as a dmz, but i'd like to forward just for 1194 to a different machine?
<AlanBell> how permanent do you want it, and do you want encryption on the link between the dmz box and the other machine?
<AlanBell> iptables is one answer, ssh -L is the other answer
<SuperMatt> shorewall aint too shabby neither
<SuperMatt> does ufw do port forwarding?
<AlanBell> they are all frontends to iptables I think?
<SuperMatt> yup
<shauno> I don't think ufw does forwarding.  just allow/deny/limit
<andylockran> hey Alan, I want a permanent solution
<SuperMatt> you may be right
<andylockran> I'd normally do an SSH tunnel
<SuperMatt> andylockran: you're going to want to look at shorewall then
<andylockran> I've got ufw setup.
<SuperMatt> I'd switch to shorewall
<SuperMatt> UFW doesn't do what you need it to do
<SuperMatt> http://www.shorewall.net/FAQ.htm#PortForwarding
<andylockran> can I edit /etc/ufw/before.rules to add a forward using iptables syntax?
<SuperMatt> oooh, good question
<shauno> I was just writing something like that, yeah.  you can add iptables rules to before.rules or after.rules, rather than ditching ufw completely
<shauno> just note the 'custom rules should be added to ..' comments so you don't get in an arguement with it
<AlanBell> I think you might want a MASQUERADE rule
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<andylockran> I've got a non-standard setup already.  eth0 is the internet device, and eth1 is the internal lan
<andylockran> eth2 are the virtual machines on the box, and that's all setup and working
<andylockran> I want to port forward to a different IP. i think that's why it's got complicated
<andylockran> maybe ssh -L is the best bet
 * brobostigon reckons he needs to trim the moustache, it is getting coffee stains.
<mungbean> eww
<dwatkins> I nearly shaved mine off by accident yesterday.
<mungbean> moustaches are wrong
<brobostigon> :(
<shauno> I don't think they're for everyone
<brobostigon> agreed.
<mungbean> if you have to have a special sponsored month for anyone to grow them...
<directhex> http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/moustaches/
<shauno> I tried, it looks like a 70s flashback.  except it's grey on the left side and brown on the other.
<shauno> I'm only 30.  nowhere near ready to rock a grey tache :/
<MartijnVdS> so dye it
<mgdm> Go for the Billy Connolly - purple tache
<shauno> I'm not sure I have the big yin's self-confidence
<mgdm> hehe
<shauno> I mean, I'm pretty sure I've seen his backside more times than my own.  red flag right there
<mgdm> haha
<brobostigon> a friend of mine, has his dyed like that, make me laugh everytime i see it.
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<mungbean> meh Â£49.99
<MooDoo> bloody customers, I know lets phone up support during the 2mins silnce.
<brobostigon> oh dear
<MooDoo> idiots
<mungbean> is it not at 11.11?
<mungbean> woops
<directhex> bloody ubuntu
<directhex> shipping a new kernel ABI every 2 weeks is *hell* for sysadmins
<MartijnVdS> yay security fixes
<MartijnVdS> especially if you need that one feature Ubuntu has disabled in their stock kernels, so every ABI bump = recompile ALL the things
<penguin42> directhex: Most of the security fixes shouldn't be ABI changers
<penguin42> actually I'd be surprised any are
<TheOpenSourcerer> andylockran: Sounds like stunnel could be your friend.
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: they all are
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: hence 3.2.0-56 on precise atm
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Right but they don't actually change the ABI
<mungbean> anyone good with twiki?
<penguin42> bleepy-bleepy-bleep?
<directhex> none of the security fixes are ABI bumps ubuntu puts out *feature* updates every 2 weeks
<directhex> also, have the missing carriage return from above:
<mgdm> BIDIBIDIBIDI what's up doc </twiki>
<directhex> adding support for newer hardware is neato and all, but a) broadly useless unless it's in an install image, and b) every 2 weeks!!?!?!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: don't they do new hardware in the "LTS Enablement" bits only? The ABI changes are for security-only fixes.
<penguin42> directhex: Curious; I thought the whole purpose of the hardware enablement packages in LTS was to avoid this
<directhex> MartijnVdS, security fixes don't break ABI
<directhex> MartijnVdS, except for under extreme circumstances
<penguin42> directhex: Point to an ABI breaking update?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: then why did last weekend's security update bump it from -55 to -56
<directhex> penguin42, any time the kernel changes from -X- to -X+1- it's due to an ABI break
<directhex> marlinc, point to a security fix in -55 compared to -54
<directhex> MartijnVdS, ^^
<penguin42> directhex: OK hang on - what's this actually breaking for you - you're not actually hitting a missing symbol/function that's changed in the ABI are you?
<directhex> penguin42, i have users literally running out of disk space from having 20 kernels installed
<penguin42> directhex: Oh!
<penguin42> directhex: Right, that problem - that's not the ABI changing that's the problem; the problem is Ubuntu's inability to clean out old kernels!
<directhex> penguin42, it's both
<Laney> That is fixed nowadays
<Laney> I don't remember if it's in 12.04 though
<directhex> penguin42, debian 7 is on -4-
<Laney> but old kernels are marked for autoremoval
<penguin42> directhex: Yeh but debian is hopelessly broken
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: NO FIRMWAREZ!!
<penguin42> directhex: I thought you were actually complaining about an ABI break....
<directhex> penguin42, the package name changes to *force* an ABI break
<Laney> /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal
<penguin42> (Although looking at 3.2.0-56.86's changelog I don't see why it got inc'd)
<penguin42> directhex: Sorry by 'ABI break' I took that to mean a binary-interface that actually changed (which should be the reason for that!)
<penguin42> directhex: But yeh, fundamentally you're problem is a lot simpler - it's just the /boot mess on Ubuntu
<directhex> penguin42, plenty of kernel modules will actually fail to load if the kernel's full version number (which is bumped here) does not match
<directhex> penguin42, it *is* ABI broken. intentionally.
<penguin42> directhex: shrug
<directhex> not a *big* break, maybe, probably. but broken nonetheless
<penguin42> directhex: Pretty much everything (even the closed stuff) uses build-at-boot for wrappers, so as long as the actual things you call didnd't change it works
<directhex> as long as you don't have a /boot partition smaller than a few gig
<directhex> i.e. as long as you don't use full disk encryption
<penguin42> directhex: see Laney's comment about cleanup
<directhex> know just how bad it is when your upgrade fails due to ENOSPC on /boot, when your have an encrypted root disk?
<penguin42> directhex: That's fundamentally the problem - and yes I've hit exactly this junk on FDE
<MartijnVdS> I've had it happen with "plain" (unencrypted) LVM installs
<MartijnVdS> it's a LOT of work to fix
<shauno> it seems like autoprune would be fairly easy to fix?
<penguin42> shauno: Should be - the challenge is making sure it doesn't go nuts and take out the kernel you're using
<penguin42> shauno: Actually it's a little more complex than that - if you don't actually reboot for a few upgrades then the challenge is what to keep; so you have to keep the one you're currently booted in and at least one you're going to boot into
<Laney> There's some comments in the file that says what it tries to do
<shauno> make a daily task that 'votes' for the current kernel, and expires any 'vote' over n days old.  then whenever you want to stick a new kernel in, tally the votes and kick the bottom 1 or 2.  sorted?
<shauno> make age the tie-breaker, and it'll prefer kernels it can suppose work over something that installed and didn't workout so well
<penguin42> meshlab could really do with using multiple cores
<mungbean> just chomped on my ulcer on my lip :(
<Azelphur> Whelp, my first foray into Sony devices since the PS3 debatable has left me once again hating Sony xD
<Azelphur> bought the Smartwatch 2, they have since pulled 2/3 of the features that are printed on the box, along with a bunch of other features.
<Azelphur> Yaaaaaay Sony.
 * Azelphur returns
<MartijnVdS> smart watches aren't a smart investment imho
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I'd be happy with it if it functioned as advertised, i really wanted wrist controls for my media player.
<AlanBell> I think if I was spending multiple hundreds of pounds on a watch I would want it to have an expected lifetime of quite a bit more than a phone
<Azelphur> well, mine was Â£125.70
<MartijnVdS> still too much ihmo :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> well, getting a refund anyway
<Azelphur> It's pretty bad when you have 3 features printed on the products box, and the device can only actually perform one of them
<Azelphur> >.<
<Azelphur> this is actually the one and only device I've ever returned under distance selling for just being bad
<ali1234> hotglue your phone to your arm
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> (don't actually do this)
<Azelphur> not even a little bit?
<popey> yeah, hot glue will burn
<popey> use super glue instead
<Azelphur> I see
<dwatkins> I got a Pebble watch, really like it.
<shauno> ducttape would seem more watchstraplike?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: I was so tempted, but I went with the Sony because it has a touchscreen and color display
<dwatkins> I wasn't concerned about touchscreen nor colour, it is nice that I can control my music, see e-mails and calls etc.
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> I think I might wait on the new google one that is supposed to be arriving
<shauno> I'm gonna keep hoping the apple rumours come through
<dwatkins> I was tempted to buy a 5th gen iPod nano because it can be worn as a watch.
<dwatkins> That would be perfect with bluetooth.
<popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/linux-voice
<Azelphur> almost got kicked out from Linus Torvalds house for using an iPhone xD
<mgdm> who did?
<Azelphur> mgdm: the Linux Voice people, in the video popey just linked
<mgdm> oh
<shauno> really?  I thought he was a bit more sane than that
<daftykins> do you think it's a joke to try and ask for a partial refund of your monthly ISP fee, when they remotely reset your router whilst you're off-island, stopping you getting access to your own gear?
<shauno> if you don't have an SLA, I'm not sure I'd waste my time, personally
<daftykins> well i went so far as to pester them about it, they claim they reconfigured peoples routers to change encapsulation from ATM to PPPoE
<MartijnVdS> why didn't yours come back up then?
<daftykins> it did, but i reconfigure them to use a different subnet
<daftykins> so although it came back, it was factory reset
<MartijnVdS> that's sub-optimal, to say the least
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> everything i like to gain access to remotely / leave running was dead
<daftykins> they claim they won't be doing it again
<ali1234> this is why you have oob administration
<daftykins> ?
<daftykins> Â£44.98 a month for line rental and 40/2 VDSL2
<daftykins> i wish i didn't have to have the phone :D
<diddledan> if they have a backdoor to be able to factory reset then I'd posit they needn't factory reset just to update the encapsulation - they can get their script to just change the relevant settings
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> they likely had to push out a new firmware
<MartijnVdS> for GCHQ, of course
<daftykins> i bet the firmware didn't change. i asked about getting a new one in my original email
<daftykins> yeah same version
<daftykins> just a single parameter change on the 'dial up' profile
<ali1234> what router is it?
<daftykins> http://www.technicolorgateways.nl/Producten/Advanced/TG789vnv3/TG789vnv3Datasheet.pdf
<daftykins> Technicolor TG789vn v3
<ali1234> ah
<daftykins> wow with that PDF open, Firefox 25 won't let me edit the address bar
<ali1234> the firmware on those does have an internet facing config port
<ali1234> you can disable it, but it might not be enough to keep out the ISP
<ali1234> they also have an internel telnet interface that can be scripted fairly easily
<dwatkins> My router has an option to allow connections only from a specific IP address, so I set my ISP's source address there just in case they do need to login.
<MartijnVdS> I've specifically disabled that.
<daftykins> yeah this is all disabled, whatever they've got is a manufacturer provided back door
<daftykins> ali1234: yeah the thing has a rather fail limitation - you can't stop it acting as a DNS server. regardless of your settings, it will provide DHCP leases with itself as the primary IP. you can only bypass that by telneting in
<daftykins> i would probably be better off buying a good wireless AP - then using the BT Openreach branded Huawei HG612 i have :)
<ali1234> daftykins: you can annoy your ISP by reflashing to another ISP's firmware with a known superuser password, and then disable it
<hamitron> think I'm going to go back to using a PC as my router
<ga73ric> hi
<ga73ric> what are you doing here?
<ga73ric> whats the sense of this chat?
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: get an OpenWRT capable router, and use that :)
<hamitron> hmmmm
<hamitron> I have a wrt54gl
<hamitron> but it is dated now
<mgdm> I have two of those
<MartijnVdS> I have a TP-Link 4300
<MartijnVdS> it's the New Hotness, I guess
<hamitron> but all the good routers cost a fair bit
<hamitron> especially when I consider I have unused computer hardware laid all over
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-WDR4300-Wireless-Gigabit-Router/dp/B00810P80S - 62gbp
<hamitron> 60 quid!
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: lots of TP-Link hardware is supported though
<hamitron> oh, it is good hardware I'm sure
<hamitron> just..... pointless wasting 60 quid
<diddledan> hamitron: consider the difference in power usage tho
<hamitron> yeh, power = heat
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: no I mean, they have Â£20 routers with OpenWRT support as well
<hamitron> heat = good
<diddledan> and then the ensuing cost for electricity
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: just don't expect dual-band wifi etc. :)
<hamitron> wifi? who needs that?
<hamitron> ;/
<diddledan> wifey ftl?
<diddledan> is that partner-ist?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: dual-band!
 * popey hugs his netgear wndr3700
<hamitron> the 1gbit upgrade would be nice, from 100mbit
<popey> dd-wrt and openwrt
<diddledan> popey: at the same time? :-p
<popey> ya
<popey> i have two
<diddledan> aah
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> nicely done
<MartijnVdS> DD-WRT is weirdly closed
<hamitron> :)
<diddledan> not a frankenstein then
<MartijnVdS> OpenWRT is *very* open (I've built my own images, DD-WRT doesn't like you doing that)
<hamitron> is openwrt faster than dd-wrt?
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: yes, it's a shame that
<diddledan> dd-wrt seems to have support for platforms that open doesn't
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: similar, openwrt tends to have newer kernels though
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: that's true the other way around too
<mgdm> I know DD-WRT is a bit odd but I run it anyway because for my purposes it Just Worksâ¢
<hamitron> well, I mean, which can be cut down to be the lightest?
<mgdm> hamitron: I'd guess openwrt
<ali1234> dd-wrt is a kang :(
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: it's the only FreeÂ® firmware with working 5GHz radar detection
<MartijnVdS> Free-ish*
<mgdm> ali1234: is a what?
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: radar detection?
<diddledan> radar detection?
<hamitron> so i suppose moving my wrt54gl from dd-wrt to openwrt may be a good start
<MartijnVdS> yeah, if you run an AP on some 5GHz channel, you need to scan for radar pulses and move to another channel if you detect one
<mgdm> ah
<diddledan> can I fake radar pulses so that my neighbours all avoid my channel?
<MartijnVdS> OpenWRT seems to almost support it as well though
<ali1234> mgdm: what happens when someone grabs a load of open source code (like openwrt) and then merges it with a bunch of non-free junk, and then releases it under a non-free crayon license
<diddledan> craola
<diddledan> crayola**
<mgdm> ali1234: ah
<MartijnVdS> dd-wrt prefers old kernels and binary drivers to new kernels and free drivers
<MartijnVdS> and when you ask "Why" on the forums, the developers shout at you for asking a frequently-asked question (without pointing you to the answer)
<daftykins> hurry up and refresh everything with Haswell, PC industry.
<ali1234> AlanBell: what was that dbus accessability stuff with zooming?
<ali1234> to make the zoomed region follow the text cursor
<AlanBell> text tracking zoom
<AlanBell> Bug #727290
<lubotu3> bug 727290 in Compiz "Allow enhanced zoom to follow text." [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727290
<ali1234> "im progress" lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: https://github.com/philipl/pifs/blob/master/README.md
<ali1234> if anyone is really working on that i will be extremely surprised
<ali1234> so, what API did you have to use?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: brilliant :)
<ali1234> ah, it's GObject? good....
<AlanBell> ali1234: it uses at-spi to get the offset of the text in the text field, then pans to that location
<ali1234> and C too, even better
<AlanBell> yup, compiz plugin
<AlanBell> ali1234: https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/compiz/texttracking/+merge/111710
<andylockran> cd hey guys
<andylockran> address 74.52.155.130 has dropped off the internet
<diddledan> hey: no such file or directory
<andylockran> wouldn't normally be an issue - but a clients website was on it
<mgdm> andylockran: what's that got to do with ubuntu-uk...?
<popey> hehe
<popey> wrong channel methinks
<diddledan> theplanet.com internet services own the netblock - interesting name
<dwatkins> Hack the planet!
<dwatkins> *ahem* excuse me
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> that actually works
 * daftykins portscans dwatkins' gibson
<diddledan> I never knew
<mgdm> why wouldn't it?
<dwatkins> They used nmap in the film The Matrix.
<diddledan> I'm betting they used that name because steve gibson used to be popular
<dwatkins> I think they changed the IP addresses to have numbers >255, though
<diddledan> argh @ sirens blaring at me
<mgdm> I doubt it has anything to do with steve gibson
<diddledan> I really should come up with a better alert tone than an airraid siren
<mgdm> William Gibson, however
<mgdm> Steve Gibson was that entertaining guy who used to bang on about writing all his apps in assembler, right?
<mgdm> and had a port scanning tool of some sort?
<diddledan> I love the fact that the director made the decision to not use cgi because it wasn't realistic enough
<diddledan> mgdm: yeah, grc.com
<mgdm> yeah. It's not named after him. :-)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> apparently all the "handles" that the joey character suggests naming his online persona were aliases actual hackers had used in the era it was filmed. like "master of disaster" (the only one I remember off the top of my head)
<ali1234> i don't remember any of this stuff happening in the matrix
<diddledan> ali1234: wrong movie
<ali1234> ip addresses > 255 was the net
<ali1234> the matrix was very obviously full of cgi
<ali1234> so i'm really confused now
<diddledan> ali1234: the non-cgi was hackers
<ali1234> never seen it
<mgdm> I'd not bother
<hamitron> it is worth 1 viewing ;)
<ali1234> johnny lee miller is in it right?
<diddledan> and angelina with her jolies
<GentileBen> I bet you'd like to diddle her jolies, diddledan.
<diddledan> http://www.maplin.co.uk/ouya
<diddledan> random link time
 * hamitron had email about it already
<GentileBen> Why choose Ouya over Nvidia's Shield?
<ali1234> argh.... who broke rhythmbox?
<diddledan> GentileBen: I thought the shield was a handheld?
<ali1234> yeah it is
<diddledan> then that would be a reason to choose ouya over the shield
<popey> https://www.scirra.com/blog/tom/4/bitcoins-uk-future-looks-bleak
<directhex> hackers is the greatest drunken movie in history
<awilkins> As in the actors are drunk or it's fun to watch it drunk?
<penguin42> is Key lime pie always disappointing or did I just have a bland one?
<awilkins> I actually liked the utter unrealism of how the hacking was portrayed
<awilkins> penguin42, Key Lime pie is lovely with a good filling and a nice spicy ginger biscuit base IMHO
<penguin42> awilkins: Hmm the base of this was a nice pastry base, but not gingery - the filling was creamy but nothing more
<daftykins> penguin42: i had one down in Key West, where it originates (so i understand) - it wasn't all that special
<directhex> awilkins, it's an excellent drinking game
<directhex> awilkins, best done with 95% rubbing alcohol, whenever anyone does something unrealistic take a chug
<penguin42> daftykins: This one was from http://www.slattery.co.uk/ - so a Mancunian Key Lime Pie
<awilkins> directhex, I thought the hacking stuff was nowhere near real but did actually convey the spirit and excitement of that kind of thing
 * penguin42 finds the worrying thing with Person Of Interest now, after the Snowdon stuff is that the bit that seems most unreal is the worry by the spooks of if they're caught
<awilkins> directhex, Artistic license probably better than watching an nmap session
<mungbean> British spy agency GCHQ set up fake LinkedIn and Slashdot pages to plant malware within Belgacom, a Belgian telecommunications company. Using a method called "quantum insert," the GCHQ was reportedly able to preempt legitimate access to the websites, redirecting the employees to fake sites that compromised their computers.
<directhex> mungbean, i feel far more terrorised by GCHQ than by people in silly hedgear
<mungbean> but sounds cool though
<diddledan> quantum insert?
<diddledan> wtf?
<penguin42> diddledan: Bend over, we need to check your....
<diddledan> soon we'll have omega bypass
<diddledan> not to be confused with a heart surgery
<diddledan> or maybe it is
<mungbean> he technique is an aspect of a larger strategy used by the GCHQ as well as the NSA to place a system of âsecret servers, codenamed Quantum, at key places on the Internet backbone,
<bashrc> Hasn't GCHQ got better things to do than to muck around with linkedin?
<mungbean> This placement ensures that they can react faster than other websites can. By exploiting that speed difference, these servers can impersonate a visited website to the target before the legitimate website can respond, thereby tricking the targetâs browser to visit a Foxacid (sic) server.â
<mungbean> bashrc: its not linkedin , its to drop malware onto pcs
<diddledan> wait, they're relying on timing for their attack?
<bashrc> does that mean that all the "terroists" have linkedin profiles highlighing their various plots
<SuperMatt> sure, why not?
<penguin42> diddledan: apparently so - by putting machines somewhere that gets to respond prior to the real server; which makes me wonder if criminals are doing the same thing by doing DoS attacks
<mungbean> i want to work for gchq now
<diddledan> bashrc: I talk about my own explosive activities on facebook. and sometimes on irc when the situation calls. my bowels have celebrity status
<diddledan> and this is why service providers should limit the ip addresses that they respond to and route to only those on their own networks
<penguin42> diddledan: Well that doesn't help - gchq isn't going to be behind a normal ISP - they'll just be plugged into LINX or the like
<bashrc> so they're phishing?
<diddledan> penguin42: it still works on linx level - they know the ip addresses of all their peers so they can refuse to accept packages the magically appear out of nowhere or don't have an ip in the whitelist
<diddledan> that way when a black box responds using linkedin's ip address linx know that it's fake
<penguin42> diddledan: hmm I'm not sure they know the address of all the peers - stuff can route via pretty odd routes can't it?
<diddledan> they only need to know the immediate 1-level upstream ip addresses. if it goes via a weird route to get to that peer(s) it doesn't matter because the peer will supplant it's own ip in the reply-to field
<directhex> http://www.engadget.com/2013/11/11/gamestick-review/#continued
<diddledan> of course I'm verging on stuff I know little about here
<diddledan> the solution really though would be to use ssl
<SuperMatt> unless GCHQ has access to private keys
<diddledan> >.<
<SuperMatt> I'm sure it's super easy for them to ask for private keys
<directhex> http://xkcd.com/538/
<SuperMatt> sure sure
<SuperMatt> but if they have a court order to hand over private certs, they don't need drink or hacking
<penguin42> SuperMatt: Right, but you have to use SSL for *everything* - even just browsing some random news site like /.
<diddledan> I like how in the uk we're obliged to hand over a key to anything they think is encrypted. that includes things that aren't and therefore those which you don't have a key. it's a criminal offence not to hand over the key.
<bashrc> does it have to be the right key?
<diddledan> bashrc: it has to decrypt the content
<diddledan> I'm not sure if truecrypt's plausible deniability volume within a volume would be sufficient for them to believe they've decrypted "the content"
<diddledan> the problem is they don't need to prove something is encrypted for them to require you to hand over "the key"
<diddledan> and losing the key isn't a valid defence
<diddledan> nor is not actually possessing the key
<bashrc> could you swallow the key?
<diddledan> yes, but you have to hand it over at some point
<diddledan> if you don't hand over the key they put you in prison
<bashrc> actually, it's not the court orders which concern me, it's the mass surveillance without suspicion
<ali1234> make it 100 levels nested deep
<diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_Investigatory_Powers_Act_2000
<ali1234> every time they ask for the key for the next level fight it to the maximum extent possible
<diddledan> the point is there is no fighting allowed
<ali1234> they have to ask you for the key
<diddledan> you are required to hand it over or you go to prison
<diddledan> simple as
<ali1234> that's not true
<diddledan> yeah they ask you, you say no, they arrest you
<ali1234> they have to ask you to give them the key
<ali1234> they ask you, you give them the key, they decrypt another encrypted volume, they ask for the next key, etc
<ali1234> just make sure there's enough keys that they have to keep asking you for the next one forever
<diddledan> and how do you remember where all these keys are along with their passwords?
<diddledan> the moment you forget one they arrest you
<ali1234> use a deterministic random number generator
<penguin42> yes, it's encrypted with pi
<diddledan> nono, pi^2
<diddledan> less obvious
<AlanBell> tau
<popey> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BV5Ye87ypAg/UoAZRDHk3EI/AAAAAAAAfYs/9BvR0_Yry-I/w1395-h872-no/metal.jpg
<popey> eww
<awilkins> UI straight out of the 90s
<awilkins> Reminds of Amiga
<AlanBell> hmm, maybe a focus on visual design isn't *all* bad
<penguin42> popey: Oh that's a bit grim
 * penguin42 would point out this isn't the default KDE style!
<ali1234> awilkins: amiga looked nothing like that :(
<penguin42> more orange and blue wasn't it?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it did look a bit like that if you installed MUI
<ali1234> also, that *is* the default KDE iconset, which is horrible
<ali1234> and quite possibly the default plasma theme
<awilkins> ali1234, You could style the Amiga UI how you liked and a lot of them were like that... also reminds me of all the Copper gradient effects that Amiga things used
<ali1234> also ironically qtcurve is the only qt theme flexible enough to do a passing imitation of the nicer gtk themes
<ali1234> nasty gradient are a staple of KDE design though
<ali1234> KDE should totally copy the new flat-everything style
 * AlanBell thinks everything should be textured and 3d and rotatably so
 * penguin42 bets there's a desktop effect for that somewhere
<diddledan> don't you hate receiving almost a dozen emails telling you to be ready for a work-related email blackout on a non-workday
<diddledan> and they just sent me another one
<diddledan> thankyou government for insisting that we use not-email for email communications
<diddledan> I'd prefer it if they just encrypted using pgp or s/mime
<diddledan> that way I can keep it in my own inbox
<daftykins> diddledan: could be worse, they could blanket bomb everyone with net sends :(
<daftykins> (windows network, at my old College of further ed.)
<diddledan> yeouch
<daftykins> diddledan: i got a formal disciplinary as a student back in ~2003 for replying with a net send asking them to stop sending so many :(
<diddledan> wtf?! that really sucks
<mgdm> My memory of them is that they all just disappeared when I hit space as I was usually typing at the time
<daftykins> diddledan: hehe, i kinda asked for it
<daftykins> mgdm: haha yeah
<daftykins> that's my biggest issue with Windows actually - active window theft
<AlanBell> I got in trouble for doing something similar on CP/M devices RM 380Z or something
<daftykins> i get extremely frustrated when something steals focus
<AlanBell> can't remember the exact command, but I did a "something wonderful has happened, your computer has come alive" to every terminal
<daftykins> :>
<AlanBell> think I had to write an essay on hacking as a punishment
<MartijnVdS> I wrote a 3-line BASIC program that printed "This computer is broken" in an infinite loop with a rainbow of colours once
<MartijnVdS> at a school I was considering going to
<MartijnVdS> then they freaked out and claimed I broke it. Then I pressed the reset button.
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OR2NDfxrmE
<daftykins> !
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASICODE
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: that's quite interestinbg
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> My mum would like a spreadsheet app for her iPad. Any recommendations?
<MartijnVdS> google docs?
<bigcalm> I'm guessing she wants an app rather than a web interface
<diddledan> bigcalm: there's apple's numbers or googley drive or microsoft's office
<bigcalm> Needs to be useable off-line
<bigcalm> diddledan: is Apple's Numbers an app that can be used offline?
<diddledan> it's an app. whether it can be used offline or not I don't now
<diddledan> know
<bigcalm> Okay, ta
<bigcalm> popey: ping
<TheOpenSourcerer> Google Drive works offline. On Android at any rate. *But*  I find spreadsheets  rather hard to use on a tablet in general.
<diddledan> https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/numbers/id361304891?mt=8 <-- that's numbers
<bigcalm> diddledan: thanks
<TheOpenSourcerer> Who was saying they like Naga chillies earlier... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqQYvT98kvI&feature=youtu.be
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: uh.. you?
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is the home of the Dorset Naga - They grew one plant for a competition to see how many ripe pods they could get from one plant...
<TheOpenSourcerer> The answer was totally insane
<bigcalm> Thanks for the suggestions guys
<daftykins> at the end of the vid: "you haven't miss read"
<daftykins> what's Miss Read got to do with this :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> They're farmers.
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: "You must be Miss Reading"
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> what's the deal with the green ones though, were they counted or not 0o
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - ripe only
<daftykins> are all green chilis unripe?
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's a good question. Not sure but probably not.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I bet there are some that ripen to green...
<daftykins> must be why they both appear in cooking :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> There are a *lot* of colour varieties now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Red, brown, peach, mustard, purple, pink with stripes, yellow,
<daftykins> :o
<TheOpenSourcerer> daftykins: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+AlanLord/posts/5NKzMQMyfpT
<daftykins> wow
<daftykins> they look like little spice grenades :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm looking for the pink tiger photo. It's in a private group on FB.
<daftykins> kinda funky shapes though
<popey> bigcalm: pong
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: don't want to be rubbing your eyes after handling them though right :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: It's ok until you cut them open
<TheOpenSourcerer> I made the mistake of crumbling up 1/2 a Jay's Peach Ghost Scorpion for lunch today - my hand has been on fire ever seince.
<davmor2> I know, except for some that you dip in whole :)
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: haha
<bigcalm> popey: my mum needs an iPad app to manipulate spreadsheets. Do you use one, can you recommend one?
<popey> i do not
<bigcalm> Okay, ta :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: don't get the mini if it is spreadsheets
<bigcalm> ?
<bigcalm> This is for an iPad 2 that she already has
<davmor2> bigcalm: sorry I missed the app bit
<bigcalm> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> daftykins: Can you see this? https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202952042581136&set=gm.542043479211336&type=1
<daftykins> yes sir-ee
<daftykins> wow that's multi-coloured
<daftykins> don't think i'd trust it :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pink Tiger. A new variety variety not yet really stable.
<daftykins> Introducing the Humble Store D:
<directhex> daftykins, there's been an unofficial humble store for ages
<directhex> daftykins, individual game devs can include a humble widget on their sites, to sell the game via humble's infrastructure. so someone made a page which just shows every possible humble widget
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> ah well, never even buy them really. i know only too well the allure of game collection without actual play ;)
<directhex> http://humblestore.webs.com/store
<ali1234> it's getting to the point where it's just the same games over and over now
<ali1234> X4 is coming out next week
<ali1234> the linux version will probably be out some time in a couple of years, lol
<directhex> ali1234, X is a complicated one. tl;dr: blame the corpse of Linux Game Publishing
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: what, when it's up to X11?
<directhex> ali1234, bear in mind X 4 has the same publisher as Metro Last Light, and that egosoft just did their own X3 port (replacing the useless LGP port)
<directhex> i.e. i wouldn't expect to be waiting years
<ali1234> yeah they reckon it will be "soon" (maybe, my german is bad)
<dogmatic69> After an update, after power down/up all apps are restored \o/
<ali1234> X3 was fun until the end game, then it's just lots of waiting
<ali1234> it turns into cookie clicker in space...
<ali1234> but you still get many hours of gameplay before that
<popey> http://imgur.com/hGztzlu
<popey> mmmm.. delcious cheesecake
<popey> on a childs plate
<daftykins> popey: :D New York?
<daftykins> (style)
<popey> ya
<penguin42> what makes a cheesecake New York style?
<ali1234> baked/not baked
<ali1234> don't remember which
<ali1234> popey's looks not baked
<popey> it was delicious
 * popey hugs Co-Op
<daftykins> any of you caught this Inspector Montalbano series? it's great :D
<daftykins> saw my parents watching an episode whilst i was over the other night
<daftykins> Italian subtitled series, but really good fun, some great humour in it
 * popey is busy playing CAH online â»
<popey> never heard of that
<daftykins> there's some season 8 on the iPlayer i believe
<daftykins> CAH?
<popey> Cards Against Humanity
<daftykins> hmm, not familiar with
<mgdm> it's entertaining
<mgdm> I have a dead-tree set but haven't played yet though :(
<bigcalm> daftykins: my parents watch it. I tried but found the action too quick to be comfortable with subtitles
<bigcalm> mgdm: then you should attend an oggcamp ;)
<daftykins> *nod* i rewind a bit :)
<bigcalm> mgdm: Steph brought his sets with him to phpnw13. You could do the same next year ;)
 * bigcalm goes back to optimising a database (this is tedious)
<mgdm> bigcalm: I bought mine in the bar while playing
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> mgdm: Actually, you were in the same game as me at phpnw13. My memory is shoddy
<mgdm> hehe
<mgdm> bigcalm: how's the DB?
<bigcalm> mgdm: the problems we saw on Friday disappeared without us doing anything. I think that the users were hammering F5 when the sight didn't respond, which compounded the issue.
<bigcalm> mgdm: the improvement work I'm doing now is partly to help prevent that in the future
<mgdm> ah yes
<bigcalm> Or at least make it less likely to suffer so badly
<bigcalm> I look forward to the day that the client says "rebuild it from scratch in the framework of our choice"
<mgdm> how are you going about it? (being nosey now I realise)
<bigcalm> Which isn't as unlikely as it sounds
<mgdm> rebuilds aren't ever the magic solution people think they are :-)
<bigcalm> mgdm: starting by adding indexes to all FKs
<mgdm> oh. very basic stuff then
<bigcalm> mgdm: the site is currently in CakePHP 1.1 and horrible horrible mess
<bigcalm> mgdm: it's a start
<mgdm> is this something you took over?
<bigcalm> Yes
<mgdm> cool, so I can slate it then without too much offence? :D
<bigcalm> At least 3 different sets of devs have worked on this over the years. Each with their own way of miss-using the framework
<bigcalm> Completely!
<bigcalm> Ah crap. I'm trying to run an alter table modify column on a column that the db thinks isn't in the table
<bigcalm> And it's not a spelling mistake
<mgdm> eh?
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6402473/
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> I had apartment_id twice
<mgdm> ah
<bigcalm> Odd error message for that
<mgdm> you're changing the column type?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> Standardising everything as much as I can
<bigcalm> Next to grep the codebase for "where" (yes, everything is raw sql queries) and put indexes on those columns
<BigRedS> bigcalm: probably easier to just check the slow query log?
<BigRedS> no point modifying/debugging SQL that's only called once a fortnight and lasts four ms a go
<bigcalm> BigRedS: that's the next step, yes
<bigcalm> Logging slow queries and trying to comprehend the output of explain
<bigcalm> Then it'll be on to profiling the project
<bigcalm> What's the profiler of choice for PHP these days?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: I have used xhprof and got a result from it
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/callgraphs/test1.png shows you critical path stuff like this
<bigcalm> AlanBell: thanks. Easy to set-up?
<AlanBell> fairly easy
<AlanBell> the hard part was doing something useful with the output
<AlanBell> you find out that stuff that sanitises small strings and gets called a *lot* is really quite important
<AlanBell> but mostly what I found out is that all code is fast, you can safely ignore it. Anything in the slow query log needs indexing until it shuts up
<BigRedS> haha
<bigcalm> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-12
<penguin42> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-24907190       hmm
<penguin42> they need to find a cheaper way to remove the cones
<bigcalm> Snipers
<penguin42> on the revellers or the cone?
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> I've set log slow queries to 1 second and nothing is showing up in the log. Which is a good thing?
<bigcalm> Time to move on to profiling I guess
<bigcalm> Oh, might try OPTIMIZE TABLE foo 1st
<BigRedS> also, mysqltuner.pl since your daemon's probably inefficently-configured out of the box
<bigcalm> It's with a 3rd party host. I don't get to tinker with mysql
<BigRedS> ah
<bigcalm> Oh, sleepy time
<bigcalm> Toodles
<diddledan> yawwn
<MooDoo> morning all
<Myrtti> meh
<Myrtti> stupid USB cables
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<bigcalm> How does the new day greet you, MooDoo?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: it's going ok thanks, playing around with photoshop at the moment.
<bigcalm> Good show :)
<SuperMatt> mornin guys
<MooDoo> morning
<bigcalm> Morning
<mungbean> friend of mine has been invited for a dragons den style interview for the y combinator startup accelerator that produced dropbox, disqus, etc. exciting for her
<mungbean> get flown to san fran for a 10 minute Q&A
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc and MooDoo
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: you're not in the other channel!
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: I know I only just logged back into this one.
<SuperMatt> oh right
<MooDoo> I am now
<DJones> Ah well, there goes another bitcoin exchange
<bigcalm> I wonder if big banks are paying crackers to deface bitcoin
<mungbean> or nsa
<awilkins> It was inevitable with the sudden meteoric rise of it's value
<awilkins> Security is only secure as long as the cost to crack it is more than the gain from doing so
<diplo> Morning all
<awilkins> That said, I bet we all wish we'd bought into it when it was less than a dollar a coin :)
<bashrc> bitcoin is very volatile.  There have bee surges and crashes in its relative value
<DJones> I still can't see how it has "value" in that coins can be mined, you don't actually need to hand over a real world currency to get them (as long as you've got the hardware, time & patience). As far as I know, its not backed by any traditional currency/reserve, so any value only seems to be in what people are willing to pay for them when they don't mine them themselves
<ali1234> DJones: which exchange?
<bashrc> just replace "bitcoin" with "pounds" or "dollars" or any other currency.  The "value" is really just a shared agreement between the users of the currency
<DJones> Give me a sec to find the link
<DJones> ali1234: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/12/bitcoin_gbl_hong_kong_collapse/
<ali1234> never heard of it
<awilkins> DJones, fiat currency has no value other than the confidence people have in it
<DJones> bashrc: Yeah, but a lot of traditional currencies are backed by gold reserves etc, or against other currencies, thats the thing that bitcoin doesn't have (as far as I know).  But that could just be something I've not read/heard, it might well be backed by the something
<ali1234> false
<awilkins> Even currency that's based on gold reserves is a bit nebulous - the only special property gold has is rarity
<ali1234> nobody still uses the gold standard
<DJones> awilkins: Thats the point I was trying to make, its confidence in it and therefore what people are prepared to pay
<bashrc> bitcoin is really backed by the solidity of the encryption algorithms and block chain.  without that it would lose value rapidly
<DJones> ali1234: Not as such, but that was what the currency was based on originally
<awilkins> Bitcoin is also based on rarity but a kind of rarity that is more absolute than gold, which is based on geography
<bashrc> there is less confidence in gold, because historically there was a multiple spending problem with gold based currency
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> any legal brains around, that know about how privacy laws apply to the welfare reform act 2012. please.
<diddledan> brobostigon: that sounds like 1) a can of worms, and 2) really intriguing
<penguin42> wow that's a bit of a specialised question!
<brobostigon> diddledan: a can of worms? and yes definatly intriguing.
<diddledan> brobostigon: can of worms in that once you open it, you get worms everywhere
<brobostigon> diddledan: possibly, yes.
<penguin42> brobostigon: So erm, I can't see why there would be any relationship between them? I mean which privacy laws? All the data-protection ones are 'except for use of upholding the law' (not sure the wording) but basically it means that they can find out whatevers needed to make sure you're not cheating on claimed welfare
<brobostigon> penguin42: very specifically, as to if within section 6d paragraph 3c of the welfare reform act, maintaining an online presence, means that only the governments own systems that applies to, ,and then as that seems to be the only accepted option within the universal jobmatch toolkit, that it is valid for someone to give the dwp to there universal jobmatch account and or not, and if that opening of said account to the dwp, is breach of data ...
<brobostigon> ... protection and you own right to privacy.
<diddledan> o_O
<brobostigon> chapter 1 also.
<diddledan> why would it be breach of data protection if you consciously make the decision to link your jobmatch account with the dwp?
<ali1234> you don't have a choice
<ali1234> if you don't link it they try to sanction you
<diddledan> oic
<brobostigon> diddledan: my meaning, is, is it valid for me to not open it up to them, yo maintain my own privacy.
<diddledan> don't have a jobmatch account in the first place?
<diddledan> what exactly is a jobmatch account anyway?
 * diddledan googles
<brobostigon> as said welfare reform act, only specifies an online presence, not specifically uja.
<ali1234> diddledan: jobmatch is a jobs website run by monster for the dwp
<ali1234> it's terrible and full of fake jobs
<brobostigon> yep.
<brobostigon> as far as my interpretation goes, it is optional, otherwise it would have it open as standard.
<brobostigon> chapter1 section 6d paragraph 3
 * penguin42 suspects it would be hard to claim that giving DWP access to a system that they provide to help in the provision of finding employment and in terms of them policing a benefit they provide; but IANAL
<diddledan> http://universaljobmatch.eu/en/what-should-i-do#do-not-sign
<brobostigon> that makes it quite clear, and confirms what i susepcted. thank you diddledan
<diddledan> from the dwp themselves: https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/help/help.aspx?k=/inline#dwp
<diddledan> the first .eu site I linked is run by solfed.org.uk the solidarity federation
<brobostigon> i am not familier with?
<brobostigon> highly recommended, thats somewhat ambiguous, but doesnt specify definate requirement to do so.
<DJones> brobostigon: When I was in that position, it was actually easy to give access because then I didn't have to write everything down as a record of having been looking for jobs
<brobostigon> DJones: i am not arguing about easyness of it, what i do argue though, is i would rather give them paper notes and i choose what information to give them,
<mungbean> what is jobmatch?
<brobostigon> see above for an explanation mungbean
<mungbean> iddledan: jobmatch is a jobs website run by monster for the dwp
<mungbean> missed that line, ta
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> so in practice, within 'chapter1 section 6d paragraph 3 of the welfare reform act' maintaining an online profile, would in practice apply to ujm/jobserve etc, whatever it happens to be.inclusive of having a uja, but closed.
 * diddledan likes the new nick he's been assigned by mungbean 's copy+paste :-p
<diddledan> plop a P on the beginning please, bob, and make it PiddleDan. Because my bladder is fun.
<MartijnVdS> PiddlePan
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> that makes me sound like someone who didn't want to get old. who also wets themself
<GentileBen> Oh my god http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2502193/Theresa-May-stuns-bold-fashion-statement-denying-shes-new-Cara-Delevigne.html
<GentileBen> Theresa May in a strapless dress.
<GentileBen> The eyes, they weren't made for this!
<diddledan> >.<
<diddledan> it hurts!
<brobostigon> ok, thank you for your help boys and girls.
<mungbean> i only see tea and kittens
<mungbean> time for me to choose a new nick actually
<bigcalm> AlanBell: thanks for the xhprof suggestion. Have it running against a legacy project and it makes for horrible viewing :)
<mgdm> heh
<mgdm> bigcalm: are you using the new xhgui thing, or the old 'orrible one?
<bigcalm> mgdm: the one in https://github.com/preinheimer/xhprof
<mgdm> bigcalm: that'll work fine but there's a nicer, newer UI if you fancy it: http://techportal.inviqa.com/2013/10/01/profiling-php-applications-with-xhgui/
<bigcalm> mgdm: ta, I'll have a look tonight. We have some form of profiling working, so I have to move on to the next ticket now :(
<mgdm> Yeah, I can understand that
<mgdm> AlanBell: That link above there might be of interest
<bigcalm> From a quick look at the graph output, I have some time to spend with strtotime
<mgdm> yes
<mgdm> that's Not Quick
<mungbean> david dimbleby just got a chavvy tattoo :-|
 * penguin42 wonders why G+ thinks I might like the 'Ubuntu Oregon' community
<davmor2> mungbean: why would you Tattoo Chavvy on yourself when you could have an awesome Dragon :D
<mgdm> mungbean: tramp stamp?
<davmor2> penguin42: the word ubuntu
<penguin42> davmor2: Well yeh but it hasn't suggested all the ubuntu stuff
<mungbean> a scorpion , which is "also his star sign" whatever that means
<mungbean> sort of thing chavs would do
<davmor2> penguin42: someone in your circles has connected to it or to someone in that group
<davmor2> mungbean: the fact you know what chavs do makes me wonder if you are a chav :P
<penguin42> odd, Fedex have 3 options for email format for tracking; text,html, wireless
<diddledan> penguin42: wireless email ftw
<diddledan> penguin42: I'm assuming that is audio with hisses and crackles and fading in and out
<DJones> Wireless just means a pidgeon flies overhead and poops on your head 10 minutes before they deliver
<penguin42> diddledan: Yes, may....it's j..... normal...email...bi...miss.ng
<mungbean> what the heck http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10442375/Dozens-executed-in-North-Korea-for-watching-foreign-films.html
<mungbean> i wonder how much of this is actually true
<penguin42> mungbean: Very difficult to verify anything
<mungbean> very difficult to believe too
<penguin42> mungbean: Yeh, I mean if the story was about the taleban shooting people for watching foreign films you wouldn't be as surprised
<mungbean> i find it hard to believe that after the execution for trivial matters then the "sources" would blab about seeing the bodies etc etc
<davmor2> mungbean, penguin42: I can believe it for the bibles.  Not the shows
<mungbean> its easy to plant a bible on someone you don't like
<mungbean> wasn't one of them the ex-girlfriend of kim jong?
<MartijnVdS> yeah, I'd consider that a crime too
<popey> http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2013/08/29/2013082901412.html
<mungbean> popey: you did a risky search there
<popey> I didn't.
<mungbean> "kim jongs girlfriend"
<popey> nope
<GentileBen> Didn't he kill his ex?
<davmor2> mungbean: only reason I say that is that when the UK ruled Hong Kong it was the smuggling path for bibles into to china where you could be executed for reading or owning a bible but china "opened" up a bit :)
 * popey considers lunch
<GentileBen> We didn't rule - we governed.
<MartijnVdS> popey: what kind?
<mungbean> The source added that all of the families of the executed appear to have been sent to prison camps under North Korea's barbaric principle of guilt by association
<davmor2> GentileBen: thanks that's the word I couldn't think of
<GentileBen> Kim's wife is pretty evil.
<GentileBen> IIRC she sang the song,  "Excellent Horse-Like Lady".
<GentileBen> Ah wait no she was one of the women executed by Kim.
<GentileBen> (The writer of that song.)
<dwatkins> That entire country scares me for many reasons.
<bashrc> I'm not a supporter of North Korean prison camps but the west also has its issues with guilt by association
<mungbean> i think the media also likes to portray NK as an ogre
<mungbean> there must always be a monster that is worse than evry other country
<dwatkins> The current monster is fear.
<dwatkins> Let's have a war against fear.
<MartijnVdS> but, fear is the mind kiler!
<MartijnVdS> +l
<mungbean> noideeeppp!
<dwatkins> We all know what fear leads to, yes.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Muad'dib*
<dwatkins> ...or was that anger?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
<mungbean> fear->anger->hate->dark side
<penguin42> dwatkins: Yes, over eating
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, I'm talking about Star Wars, not Dune ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: They both take place on a sandy planet
<mungbean> star wars has les phallic symbols
<GentileBen> bashrc, America bombs people due to association.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Who's to say that Arrakis isn't Tatooine?
<GentileBen> bashrc, the US bombs wedding parties because on terrorist is there - hundreds of guests die.
<mungbean> citation needed
<GentileBen> mungbean, North Korea is pretty bad, but no worse than what's happening in Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Kazakhstan, etc.
<GentileBen> All Western allies.
<bashrc> GentileBen: Obama has a "kill list" which is believed to be primarily compiled from the assumption of guilt by association
<GentileBen> The US has redefined "militant" to mean "any male of combatant age in the vicinity of the blast radius".
<GentileBen> So when they count up bodies and find dead men, they define those as militants - not civilians.
<GentileBen> âLet us remember that the terrorists we are after target civilians, and the death toll from their acts of terrorism against Muslims dwarfs any estimate of civilian casualties from drone strikes," <-- Obama is right about that though.
<penguin42> GentileBen: I'd generally assumed most of those were screwups because either their 'intelligence' was too stupid or their missiles too stupid
<mungbean> remember when we used to get visitors to this chan who asked techniacl questions?
<ali1234> mungbean: how can you say star wars has [fewer] phallic symbols than dune?
<GentileBen> The US has killed ~700 civilians through drone strikes. Muslim terrorists have killed probably 100x that.
<mungbean> ali1234: because the willies^H^H^H^H^H^ worms in dune
<GentileBen> mungbean, yes, let's go back to discussing Star Wars.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Star Destroyers.
<BigRedS> GentileBen: many of those 'drone strikes' are from aircraft not apparently behaving like drones.
<GentileBen> I've never seen Star Wars.
<ali1234> mungbean: but light sabres...
<GentileBen> BigRedS are you implying they're from UFOs?!
<mungbean> light sabres -> swords -> willies
<GentileBen> All of Star Wars is gay, not phallic.
<ali1234> dune might win on size but star wars wins on numbers and general obsession
<penguin42> talking of which, I'll refrain from posting the link to the 'over sensitivity' of MSs new Kinect system
<GentileBen> penguin42 no, link to it.
<BigRedS> GentileBen: no, just that a major feature of a drone is that you don't hear it, and because they're unmanned they can go out alone
<penguin42> GentileBen: I'm not sure it meets the CoC - I mean it's problem isn't related to detecting light sabres
<ali1234> also, if you want technical questions, I have one: http://stackoverflow.com/q/19930236/1001513
<GentileBen> penguin42, I demand you link to it at once.
 * penguin42 shakes with fear
 * GentileBen bangs fist on table
<diddledan> careful, penguin42 , GentileBen might put his foot down with a firm hand
<diddledan> I love mixing metaphores
<MartijnVdS> metaphoresis
<mungbean> mixamotosis
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> mixy ftw
<mungbean> sir mixalot
<GentileBen> "Craig Cobb, a white supremacist who wants to ban all blacks from a small North Dakotan town discovers that he has African ancestry " lol
<GentileBen> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10442971/White-supremacist-discovers-he-is-part-black.html
<ali1234> life imitates art
<dwatkins> What's worse is that someone is attacking cyclists in Edinburgh: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-24912111
<mungbean> with poo?
<MartijnVdS> with ropes
<dwatkins> well, targetting them by tying ropes across the path
<GentileBen> The poo one is different.
<GentileBen> Well let's be honest, about 20% of cyclists are dumb as hell.
<MartijnVdS> we sometimes get those as well
<dwatkins> as for the white supremecist, all this is moot anyway, since we're all descended from people who originated in Africa and were black.
<MartijnVdS> they usually get caught in 2-3 days
<mungbean>  thats lower than the rest of the population
<mungbean> which is around 49%
<GentileBen> They don't stop for red lights, don't slow down to let cars pass, don't -look- before swerving, etc.
<dwatkins> My lights are pretty bright.
<mungbean> or 97% if you ask me
<dwatkins> Cyclists that don't stop for lights give us a bad name.
<MartijnVdS> also, signalling turns
<GentileBen> mungbean, I thought #ubuntu-uk would be full of cycling fundamentalists which is why I said 20%.
<GentileBen> It's about 90% of all road-travelling cyclists.
<dwatkins> I always signal
<dwatkins> hells, I've considered making light-up gloves
<mungbean> it should be an even cross sextion of society
<GentileBen> The majority of people who can cycle don't cycle to work.
<MartijnVdS> so do I, but people who don't give others a bad name
<dwatkins> indeed, MartijnVdS, damn them to hades etc.
<GentileBen> I've seen people with flash lights on their foreheads lol.
<mungbean> i wouldn't cycle in london because i want to stay alive for my family
<GentileBen> Look, it's not even the helmet thing.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: don't you have a good life insurance policy?
<GentileBen> It's that most road-faring cyclists are dumb as hell.
<GentileBen> The ones who cycle on pavements are, ironically, the better ones.
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: i do, but selfishly i quite like seeing my family too
<mungbean> and what if i was just maimed?
<GentileBen> And the crazy thing? If I drove into one of those stupid cyclists who cross a T-junction red light, I'd be prosecuted.
<dwatkins> flashlights? lol, no - you need one of these if you cycle anywhere as dark as Edinburgh http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lezyne-Power-Drive-XL-Front/dp/B008R5QBBW/
<mungbean> i ride my kick scooter on the pavements, because its safe and legal
<GentileBen> lol, are you in school?
<dwatkins> I unicycle on the pavement.
<GentileBen> The worst cyclists are the ones who wear revealing lycra gear.
<GentileBen> It's like, Jesus Christ, hide your asses please.
<mungbean> kick scooters were invted for adults
<dwatkins> I've heard of people being told by the police to unicycle on the road, then 5 minutes later being told to unicycle on the pavement.
<penguin42> dwatkins: Is unicycling half legal?
<mungbean> children ride bikes too
<dwatkins> penguin42: haha
<GentileBen> penguin42, depends if you're cycling forwards or backwards.
<GentileBen> Forwards = road, backwards = pavement.
<GentileBen> Cyclists should be forced to ride on this instead http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ordinary_bicycle01.jpg
<GentileBen> Why don't they have penny farthing races anymore?
<mungbean> don't give the hipsters ideas
<dwatkins> The hipsters aren't already riding them? They fail at hipsery in that case.
<dwatkins> hipstery, perhaps.
<GentileBen> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l73jrrTOF01qasi66o1_500.jpg
<mungbean> i've seen one
<GentileBen> Too late.
<mgdm> there's a guy here who will cycle past my flat on either a  penny farthing or a unicycle from time to time
<mgdm> yes, he's a hipster
<mungbean> lol
<dwatkins> GentileBen: that's the one
<mungbean> apple shop : tick
<mungbean> penny farthing : ticl
<GentileBen> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh8czn3zv51qz83w8o1_500.jpg lol
<mungbean> moelskin notepad : tick
<GentileBen> Either those are giant bikes or tiny people.
<daftykins> i tend to want to pull people off their bikes and shout at them, when they cycle along the pedestrianised high-street here in town
<daftykins> me, as a cyclist also.
<BigRedS> yeah, I think Bad Cyclists annoy other cyclists more than they do anyone else
<BigRedS> though, obviously, with different ideas of what 'bad' is
<GentileBen> BigRedS: anybody who wears lycra and a helmet.
<popey> Oooh, Unity3d 4.3
<BigRedS> GentileBen: including lycra under baggies?
<daftykins> i wonder what the life of the little rear wheel on a penny farthing is like
<mungbean> depends how many skids you do
<daftykins> ;)
<mungbean> remember when we used to "burn" other peoples wheel
<SuperMatt> who here is an expert in cgroups?
<mungbean> riding a bmx
<daftykins> hrmm i've never seen one up close - is the main wheel fixed gear?
<mungbean> if hipster then yes
<BigRedS> yeah, penny farthings predate freewheels by some margin
<daftykins> :>
<BigRedS> mostly there's no gear
<daftykins> of course
<BigRedS> Hah, /me is having a normal conversation about bikes in the other tab
<GentileBen> Penny farthing bunny hops.
<GentileBen> Is a penny farthing just a siamese twin unicycle where the second one died in the womb?
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ixap3kddvynw452/IMG_20130614_025657.jpg
<daftykins> there are my lovelies
 * penguin42 must remember to ask GentileBen when needing metaphores
<daftykins> ^ :D
<popey> interesting to see Unity are trying to track their social reach by posting slightly different short URLs to each service
<popey> https://bitly.com/unity43g+ vs https://bitly.com/unity43+ vs https://bitly.com/unity43fb+
<penguin42> daftykins: Two bikes, because one is just not enough?
<mungbean> my wife said some ancestor of hers invented the penny farthing
<mungbean> not sure how true
<daftykins> penguin42: indeed! the little one is a third of the price, safer to take to pubs and serves as a good backup if i get a flat - given cycling is my main mode of transport
<daftykins> mungbean: was her maiden name Penny Farthing? D:
<daftykins> sorry.
<BigRedS> is that an epic?
 * BigRedS finds teh 'zoom' button
<daftykins> yes sir-ee
<BigRedS> nifty, just needs proper pedals :)
<daftykins> 2008 carbon
<daftykins> what, clip? i don't get on with anything other than platform
<BigRedS> well, clipless
<daftykins> they had them in the shop but i did a swap
<BigRedS> but, yeah, nobody does when they first try them. Then you get indoctrinated
<MartijnVdS> I have this bike: http://www.aldofietsen.nl/fietsen/catalogus/herenfietsen/59/0/opa_transport_28.html
<BigRedS> spot the dutchman...
<daftykins> i've now ditched those for the DMR V12's which are what's on the Rockhopper there, nice sealed pedals
<daftykins> :D
<dwatkins> I thought everyone in the Netherlands had the same model, MartijnVdS ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: not quite
<daftykins> A friend of ours has a dutch girlfriend, her parents gifted him a bike from back home. Whilst performing maintenance he lubricated some part with oil and apparently her father was outraged upon hearing 0o
<MartijnVdS> either use grease, or nothing at all ;)
<penguin42> presumably they were supposed to use bacon fat?
<GentileBen> Is Cathy Bussey your nom de plume, daftykins? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10435207/Cycling-without-knickers-Ive-become-a-pro.html
<GentileBen> "Ever wondered how cycling pros spend hours in the saddle pain-free? The only way is commando. Cathy Bussey ditches the knickers and gives it a go. "
<daftykins> this seems to be the main concern of non-cyclists - how your bum is gonna feel
<MartijnVdS> the same as before?
<daftykins> i do actually notice a certain immunity, my first time snowboarding i didn't get any posterior pain at all!
<BigRedS> my bouts of cycling are generally a few months apart. Each time I pick it up again there's that uncomfortable 20 miles or so as I reacquaint myself with my saddle
<daftykins> but sometimes after i've been away from bikes for a while i notice it takes a few minutes to get back to where i was :D
<daftykins> hehe
<BigRedS> she makes a good point, though it's normally going commando under padded shorts, not just no underwear at all
<GentileBen> BigRedS, makes sense.
<daftykins> hope you're not cycling with that long hair not tied up, dear
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh you see as a kid the 1st time I tried sitting on a cycle I decided it was a bad idea to feel like that
<penguin42> and didn't try again
<daftykins> awww :(
<daftykins> what did it feel like?
<penguin42> sitting on the edge of a hard uncomfortable thing trying to force it's way up your crack
<penguin42> and that's the problem with bikes
 * penguin42 kind of fancies trying a recumbant
<daftykins> hehe
<MartijnVdS> http://www.reddit.com/r/startledcats
<dwatkins> there really is a subreddit for every occasion
<GentileBen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9XtK6R1QAk
<GentileBen> Zero G cats
<daftykins> i miss pets :(
<GentileBen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwcPuOV0BM
<daftykins> i can only imagine what those poor zero g cats are thinking
<mungbean> some guy called albert pope had a hand in invtenign it too
<MartijnVdS> so, blame popey ? :)
<GentileBen> Is popey the Vatican ambassador to freenode?
<daftykins> all that talk of bikes has me wanting to go ride
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CTPLUcQAjk
<daftykins> yes, yes indeed
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I counter your bicycle race with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMnjF1O4eH0
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: which in turn inspired http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDSK91mUNLU
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: pretty sure it inspired Sir-mix-a-lot too :D
<GentileBen> I don't know why we gave him a knighthood.
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Radio ga-ga is the one that always makes my wife smile cause freddie can never get the claps in time but the audience is perfect :D
 * penguin42 seems to have an offer for anyone who wants to get on virgin broadband; apparently the victim gets free installation and I get #50 off
<Laney> i just read that they are hiking prices again
<penguin42> Laney: Nod, but apparently giving every one an extra 20Mbps
<BigRedS> yeah, 'cause they're about to lose the ability to
<Laney> quite
<penguin42> (although they're not saying what they're doing to the upstream - so I suspect no change)
<Laney> i'd rather keep what i have and not pay more
<Laney> can i downgrade without having to start a new contract?
<penguin42> Laney: What you on?
<Laney> 100
<penguin42> hmm yes, 20 on top of that is probably not much use - I'm on 30Mbps so it's quite a different
<penguin42> ce
<penguin42> although frankly 30 is enough for me
<penguin42> given I was on less than 10 on DSL a few months ago
 * awilkins is supposed to be on 60MB with VM but doesn't get beyond 25MB
<BigRedS> It's like memory - you notice downgrades far more than you do upgrades
<awilkins> 25 is usually enough to satisfy me
<penguin42> awilkins: Interesting, I get the 30Mbps easily
<penguin42> awilkins: Have you asked them to charge you for 30MB?
<awilkins> penguin42, There was a time my local router just ground to a halt from all the torrenting - not enough CPU / RAM to handle the connections
<awilkins> 150ms pings to first hop
<awilkins> penguin42, I was on the package that's supposed to have been upgraded to 60 I think
<awilkins> penguin42, As far as I know from my CM settings pages as well
<penguin42> awilkins: Yeh it's a bit odd the upgrade system they had seems to get upgrades to be different from new accounts
<penguin42> yep, they say it's going to be no upstream update - so 50Mbps/2Mbps which is a bit silly
<GentileBen> penguin42: Virgin Media are raising prices again in February.
<GentileBen> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24911042
<GentileBen> Virgin Media broadband customers will see bills rise by 6.7% from February.
<penguin42> GentileBen: Nod - see the scrollback
<GentileBen> They're also raising the top tier to 152MBps but I'm pretty sure you'll see the price rise way in advance.
<GentileBen> penguin42, I refuse.
 * penguin42 bangs his flippers on the table
<GentileBen> To be fair, Virgin have the best broadband service (but terrible customer support - as bad as BT's).
<GentileBen> I get a constant 125Mbps and have done since I got the upgrade.
<penguin42> GentileBen: Yeh as I said above their going to up the 30Mb/2 I'm on to probably 50/2 - so more bandwidth for a little more money, although frankly I'd prefer some more up
<GentileBen> And before then I got a constant 100Mbps, and a constant 50Mbps, and a constant 10Mbps, and a constant 1Mbps...Virgin Media have always sold people real speeds.
<GentileBen> I get 120/10.
<penguin42> GentileBen: If you bothered reading the scrollback you'd see awilkins bitching that's not what he gets
<GentileBen> TBH upload is pretty irrelevant unless a dozen people are Skyping at once.
<GentileBen> penguin42, a BT agent provocateur.
<GentileBen> "* awilkins is supposed to be on 60MB with VM but doesn't get beyond 25MB" <-- something wrong with your connection.
<GentileBen> Did they check your SNR, etc.?
<penguin42> GentileBen: Then see your comment about their customer service!
<GentileBen> penguin42, to be fair I've never had a major issue with VM.
<GentileBen> It's just annoying having to deal with offshore helpdesk staff.
 * penguin42 doesn't care where helpdesk staff are as long as they've got a clue
<shauno> that's a mixed bag either way.  half the time if you don't go overseas, they put you through to geordies instead
<GentileBen> First-line helpdesk staff don't have a clue - that's why they're first-line helpdesk.
<penguin42> GentileBen: Right, so as long as they get out of the way quickly I don't mind
<GentileBen> VM's second line are in Wales IIRC.
<BigRedS> shauno: I've long thought Dell's Scottish call centre was there precisesly to stop people asking to not talk to India
<shauno> I'm just nitpicky about it because technically, I am overseas support
<GentileBen> shauno, do you ask people to do the needful?
<GentileBen> I think people who do tech support for the UK should understand regional UK accents.
<davmor2> shauno: oh in that case we all hate you ;)  No seriously I'm of the opinion that as long as the person can actually help you rather than reading from a script it's much better.  VM india call center told me to bin the extra hub that VM sent me,  So I called through to the disconnect me line and got the correct answer of if you bin it we will charge you, and sent me a bag.
<GentileBen> Does any Indian call centre worker understand Glasgow people? Unlikely.
<shauno> I'm not sure that's specific to India
<GentileBen> Yes, people in Glasgow sometimes don't understand people from Glasgow.
<GentileBen> But still, my point remains valid.
<shauno> I grew up 40 miles from glasgow, and I struggle
<GentileBen> And the issue is also how these people are trained - they're all IBM'ers by descent.
<GentileBen> shauno, it's a miracle you're still alive.
<penguin42> haha
<shauno> compared to the rest of the continent though, it does make us look incredibly silly
<GentileBen> davmor2, duh. Don't trust Indian call centre workers. They work on several different accounts and read from scripts.
<GentileBen> Eg. they're on the Virgin Media account, then the BT account, then the Sky account...
<GentileBen> And they're all sub-contracted from the likes of IBM.
<GentileBen> Nothing against them being "foreign" - everything to do with them being low-skilled workers trained by other low-skilled workers.
<GentileBen> 20 years ago they were based in the UK - now those jobs have shipped overseas, and those Brits have moved into other fields - nail bars, tanning salons, drinking outside betting shops.
<penguin42> GentileBen: Or even worse support for other ISPs
<GentileBen> Ahhh remember Bulldog?
<penguin42> no
<GentileBen> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/18/bulldog_ofcom/
<shauno> I've never had much luck with ISPs in general.  I Remember spending a good 20 minutes on the phone with freeserve, trying to find their freephone dialin number.  and spent most the time trying to explain to the guy why paying customers had a different number
<GentileBen> They were one of the worst ISPs back in the less regulated days after BT was forced to open up its exchanges.
<GentileBen> shauno, I got the 0300 number for Virgin Media.
<shauno> in michigan I had the sounds folder out of 98 stashed away, so I could play the appropriate sounds so that they'd believe I'd tried rebooting my machine
<GentileBen> It's free, but goes to the same place as the 0845 number.
<GentileBen> lol
<penguin42> GentileBen: Ooh what's that - although my BT contract means 0845 is free anyway
<GentileBen> Well, for me all local 01 02 and 03 numbers are free, so it's "free" for me.
<GentileBen> 03330 003101
<penguin42> thanks
<penguin42> hmm, 0333 is national call, just like 0845
<GentileBen> It's the number they give you if you fail the broadband test online.
<GentileBen> penguin42, my T-Mobile tarrif gives me free 03 numbers.
<GentileBen> So YMMV.
<penguin42> oh odd
<GentileBen> "Charges for calling 0333 numbers (and any other '03' number) are the same as for calls made to standard UK landline phone numbers starting 01 or 02"
<GentileBen> Hmm.
<awilkins> Remember that ISP that offered you free lifetime service if you bought Â£20 worth of shares
<penguin42> how long was their life?
<awilkins> That was a bloody bargain, even if the owner did abscond to Rio after about 4 months
<GentileBen> lol
<awilkins> This was in the age of dialup
<awilkins> They had an 0800 number
<awilkins> Otherwise I was on Claranet at some low-rated premium number
<DJones> Hmmh, df -h tells me that sda1 has 35Gb of 37Gb used, but I can't find whats using the space
<penguin42> DJones: Does it go away if you reboot?
<awilkins> du will tell you what an individual thing is using
<DJones> no, I've tried rebooting
<awilkins> There's a disk space application too
<penguin42> ok, so yeh du should work
<awilkins> Is this a server?
<DJones> yes
<penguin42> DJones: Only time du won't work is   1) For a deleted file   2) If you've mounted over a directory that has junk in
<penguin42> DJones: e..g if you write a huge file  into /mnt and then mount over it
<DJones> Thats not something I've done, it should just be a basic 12.04 install with irssi & samba running
<awilkins> Ouch
<awilkins> Check /var/log first
<awilkins> But even so
<awilkins> That seems excessive
<penguin42> DJones: And what does du -s show ?
<bigcalm> DJones: can you use the Disk Usage Analyser?
<DJones> du -s is running, its a server, so command line only
<AlanBell> baobab can scan remote folders (not sure how efficiently)
<penguin42> DJones: No 20GB logs in /var/log ?
<DJones> Nope
<penguin42> DJones: how big is your /var/cache/apt/archives?
<DJones> I might give baobab a try when I get home, Been looking at it for a couple of days, can't seem to find anything over 1Gb
<DJones> penguin42: Thats empty, I've already cleared that
<awilkins> Hmm, what about loads of teensy files
<awilkins> Even the teensiest file will consume a full block
<penguin42> it'd need to be a heck of a lot
<awilkins> Or a large block size
<DJones> I'm going to check where one of my other machines is backing up to, it could be those backups, but in theory they should be going to /home & not anywhere in /
 * popey scrolls back to see what he's to blame for
<GentileBen> popey: the Western Schism.
<popey> usual then
<AlanBell> heading to half way . . . http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5206923
<davmor2> popey: Everything !  Nothing new there though right :)
<diddledan> AlanBell: do I remember reading someplace that someone had wayland running on the pi fully accelerated, or am I pulling at random entropy? the reason I ask is that I also thought I read that unity uses the same graphics driver api meaning that unity at least has the potential to run a full-on experience in the future.. or am I wishfully thinking?
<popey> AlanBell: nice one!
<diddledan> and, AlanBell , congrats on getting past the 1k mark on the indiegogo
<AlanBell> diddledan: yes, the pi can run wayland using hardware acceleration, it is quite smooth, but there were problems with memory and various bugs
<bigcalm> Name a Pi - do we have free reign or do you use the contributor's name/nick?
<diddledan> bertybasset
<diddledan> or for 1k bertybassetOS
<bigcalm> diddledan: http://imgur.com/FmuR7
<diddledan> hooty mcowlface is an awesome name
<bigcalm> Indeed it is :)
<popey> I'd want one named _the_fist or oozemeister
 * Laney MMM TEA
<AlanBell> bigcalm: I will contact naming contributors and get the names they want, (can be any valid hostname)
<bigcalm> Bwuhahahahahaha
<bigcalm> Oh, okay :)
<AlanBell> I wonder if robert');drop%20table%20students is a valid hostname
<diddledan> AlanBell: it probably is when you take into account IDN
<daftykins> just diagnosed the first of two laptops i've been given by putting my ear to it :D
<diddledan> daftykins: loose screw?
<daftykins> dead disk, repetitive head motions
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> that old chestnut :D
<directhex> diddledan, collabora made a fully accelerated wayland backend for pi
<popey> code club was fun today
<popey> one of the kids started trying to write minecraft in scratch â»
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UkUal_hHx8
<diddledan> popey: good luck to em :-)
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> very ambitious
<diddledan> directhex: a lot of tearing :-(
<diddledan> oh
<diddledan> that was without wayland
<diddledan> yeah, the accelerated backend is better
<diddledan> has anyone seen this marketing video yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHTUlF7NA2o
<diddledan> how dare they!
<daftykins> just went for a little ride along the east coast here, as the sun was setting
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/asiekrtkx92xr1e/saleriepano.jpg
<popey> pretty
<popey> gah
<popey> GTAV PC not out till 2014 â¹
 * awilkins will just get Saints Row IV from a bargain bucket of some sort
<awilkins> Not finished SRIII yet
<daftykins> i've a feeling i should really update my Ubuntu flash drive (used for testing and fiddling etc.) it's running 10.04 :D
<awilkins> I have one of those Corsair ones with the go-faster red sidings with Raring on it at the moment
<popey> wonder how well warty would work on a new machine
<daftykins> this laptop didn't boot with the damaged HDD in, so i pulled it out in an attempt to see if it was holding it up
<popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/linux-voice/x/1051579 is doing well
 * mgdm plays with a Leap Motion
<popey> blimey, you're the guy who bought one?
<mgdm> popey: no, the guy who sits next to me at work got one free for being a JS ninja or something
<popey> handy
<penguin42> seem to be going for about 45 at the moment
<mgdm> I'd not buy one full-price, for sure
<penguin42> not quite down to useless toy price yet
<mgdm> No
<mgdm> but when it gets there, I might :-)
<penguin42> CeX's prices are interesting - they have them as 45 sell, buy for 11, voucher for 18 - I guess that means they're not confident of selling if they buy
<bigcalm> mgdm: do you feel as though you are in The Lawnmower Man?
 * penguin42 hands mgdm a cricket ball with his name engraved on it
<mgdm> Can't say I do, no, I've not seen that film
<awilkins> That's just CeX isn't it? Tiny buy prices?
<penguin42> yeh possibly
<Laney> grr
<Laney> how do I turn off notifications from the twitter app on android?
<Laney> or at least turn them down
<Laney> ah, found it
<aquarius> directhex, hm, ignore mono question on twitter. That game seems to be unity3d, I think? Now trying to work out whether I can run a Unity3d game on ubuntu; I know that Unity can now publish games that'll work on Ubuntu, but I don't know if you can take a game that is Unity3d but *wasn't*  published that way and then run it on Ubuntu anyway
<aquarius> ha! popey answers.
<popey> contact the developer and ask them to make a linux version
<popey> i have had some success with this
<directhex> this will work if they developed using unity 4.x pro, or the gratis version of unity 3.0
<aquarius> popey, (conversations on two channels!) so Unity doesn't export just a "unity game" which goes with a platform-specific runtime? You have to export it once for each platform??
<aquarius> that's fine if so -- will contact the dude
<aquarius> any advice for the wording I should use?
<directhex> only unity 4 can export to linux, but licenses are expensive to upgrade if they have 3 pro already
<popey> there's a binary which has the platform specific stuff onboard, and "data"
<popey> you also have to pay for some additional platforms like ios and android
<popey> 		<script type="text/javascript" src="http://webplayer.unity3d.com/download_webplayer-3.x/3.0/uo/UnityObject.js"></script>
<aquarius> there are android and ios versions of the game, so I assume they paid
<popey> so they probably used unity 3
<popey> not unity 4
<popey> so they may not have upgraded yet, or the game pre-dates them upgrading
<aquarius> so I need to ask if they *have* Unity 4.0 pro? That is: if they built the game in Unity 3, but they have Unity 4 now, they can just do File > Load on their project, then File > Export to Linux ?
<aquarius> also, is it "Linux" or "Ubuntu"?
<directhex> it's linux
<aquarius> appreciate you may not know the answers here, but the lower I can make the barrier to them doing it, the more likely they'll do it ;)
<directhex> and yes, it's as simple as opening the old unity 3d project file then waiting an age for the import/conversion
<directhex> i did a video, hang on
<aquarius> nice one
<popey> interestingly I just updated my Unity3D to 4.3
<popey> some neat new stuff in it
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFyLDMaBXjE
<aquarius> does knowing that there are android and ios versions suggest which version of Unity he has? Or could you do iOS and Android in Unity 3?
<popey> well it implies 3.x from the html on the page
<popey> you could, but I would suspect he's on 3.x
<popey> the linux export option came in with 4.x
<popey> its his first game, so I would expect he's using the free version of Unity 3D 3.x
<aquarius> popey, yeah; I'm wondering that, if for example you need Unity 4 to do Android, that maybe he made the web/pc/mac versions with 3, then upgraded to 4 to export Android version
<aquarius> I can't for the life of me find some sort of a chart explaining which versions of unity support which export destinations :)
<aquarius> also, five and a half minutes. directhex, you are a hero. :)
<directhex> aquarius, that's mostly import time
<aquarius> yeah, just skipped through the video and observed that :)
<aquarius> 5.5 minutes. 0.5 of which is you doing stuff, along with five minutes of progress bar :)
<directhex> technically, if they used third party middleware, it is possible it's non-linuxy
<directhex> e.g. if that middleware is nonportable
<directhex> or if they wrote their own components in something like C
<aquarius> cool! dude replies
<aquarius> using 3.5.7
<aquarius> "No, I'm usin 3.5.7 but after release I'll take a look on 4.0 and make build for linux too:)"
<aquarius> so, winn0r
<aquarius> directhex, there's mac, pc, ios, and android versions. Unlikely to be using custom middleware :)
<directhex> aquarius, just saying. sometimes it's *not* 3 clicks to make a linux version
<directhex> sometimes it's thousands of dollars of license upgrades, and sometimes it's a bunch of porting of non-cross-platform code
<aquarius> directhex, yeah. Still, worth a try, and if he says "it's too hard", I'll say "well, OK"
<aquarius> but it's a dead cool game :)
<bittin> someone feels like helping me: http://pastebin.sabayon.org/pastie/14786 ?
<directhex> "pure" unity games which are done only in boo/c#/unityscript don't need porting, they just need unity 4
<aquarius> and he just gives the mac and pc versions away!
<aquarius> and the ios version has lite and full versions.
<directhex> it used to be possible to export to Flash, but that option was mothballed
<aquarius> in favour of the Unity player, I assume? (And with an eye on Flash sorta dying away, sadly)
<directhex> well, it was difficult to write
<directhex> since it included a .net bytecode -> actionscript converter
<directhex> questionably valid flash
<diddledan> ios and android are both part of the "free" unity4 now
<diddledan> you have to agree to terms but that's about it
<aquarius> ouch. viciously difficult flash, by the sound of it!
<aquarius> anyway, he says he's happy to do it once he's finished the new iOS version, which is good enough for me.
<aquarius> cheers, directhex and popey; I know nothing of this subject, as may be painfully obvious
<diddledan> http://unity3d.com/unity/licenses
<popey> â»
<popey> diddledan: they are?
<popey> I thought you still needed the pay version for ios and android
<popey> oh, no you're right, I made a "game" for android a while back with it
<andylockran> switching to plusnet today
<andylockran> bit of a mistake so far; currently have no dial tone and internet access via tehtnering
<andylockran> asargh.
<andylockran> also, on hold for 55 minutes so far
<andylockran> real honest queueing
<diddledan> xamarin mono-fondle is expensive
<diddledan> $299 for ios and another $299 for droid
<diddledan> and that's yearly
<diddledan> alternatively they have a freebie version that's limited to 32K of IL code
<diddledan> thing is I have no idea how much that actually means
<directhex> diddledan, i guess their pricing structure works for them, they're doing well as a company
<diddledan> directhex: I'm not doubting the price is worth it, just complaining that I can't afford it :-p
<diddledan> it's my bank balance I'm moaning about really :-D
<bigcalm> Toot toot
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-13
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<popey> Good morning!
<brobostigon> morning hrh popey
<MooDoo> How is everyone this fine day.
<brobostigon> sneezy, and jobcentre signon day.
<shauno> 9am and I'm downloading drivers for my amiga.  it's a good day!
<diplo> Morning all
<BigRedS> Goooooood Morning!
<DJones> ali1234: Another bitcoin hack http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/13/bitcashcz_burgled_and_closed/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
<ali1234> never heard of them either
<BigRedS> ali1234: I'm beginning to think that's viewed as a feature when it comes to bitcoin exchanges
<BigRedS> they seem to all prefer something that was knocked together by some kid after school one day to anything remotely designed
<DJones> ali1234: I guess there are a lot of small exchanges
<BigRedS> which is partly why I'm remaining distrustful of bitcoin in general - it's not that it's immature per se, it's that nobody particularly involved appears capable of foresight
<BigRedS> Is there some form into which I can paste a MySQL bug number and find out which debian packages have patched it? It's not a security vuln
<BigRedS> Oh. It's still in 5.6.12 apparently so I don't expect it's been patched anywhere in 5.1...
<DJones> I don't think thats a bitcoin problem specifically, even regular banks get hacked & funds siphoned off, but they're normally covered up to protect the banks reputation, bitcoin is probably just gets more publicity at the moment because its comparatively new and the small exchanges don't have the deposits and the influence to keep a hack/theft quiet
<ali1234> that and bank deposits are protected
<SuperMatt> surely the difference is that banks have reserves and checks and regulation that says if any money goes missing the bank is responsible for ensuring the customer is treated fairly
<SuperMatt> bitcoin has none of that
<ali1234> banks don't have reserves
<SuperMatt> well they should
<DJones> SuperMatt: What banks have is influence to be able to hide a hack/theft, to my eyes, bitcoin is a lot more public, so when something goes wrong, it goes wrong in public
<DJones> ali1234: Would you say that was a fair assesment
<ali1234> not really
<shauno> aren't banks insured by the state?  I'd have thought there's some equivalence to the FDIC in the US
<ali1234> it's more like: fiat currency doesn't exist in the first place, so it's impossible to rob banks of any significant amount, since it's impossible for them to hold a reserve of something that doesn't exist
<MartijnVdS> well it physically exists (as in, paper with numbers on them)
<ali1234> the idea that banks lend out some fraction of deposits is completely untrue
<ali1234> the only thing banks have is debt
<DJones> shauno: Upto a limit of (I think) Â£30K if the bank completely crumbles (eg RBS & Lloyds), but a few million here or there is generally kept quiet & covered out of bank profits
<BigRedS> well, they often have assets too, but they are a fraction of the debt rather than the other way around
<BigRedS> but, yeah, the bigger problem than the perceived transparency is that when bitcoin goes wrong people other than the exchange lose out. When a bank goes wrong they must compensate their customers
<BigRedS> and since there's no regulation of the exchanges there's not a huge incentive to be any good
<ali1234> no, actually , that's not true either
<ali1234> bank despotis are insured by the government
<ali1234> when a bank crashes, the public pays via taxes
<BigRedS> yeah, I meant for problems smaller than crashes, which are substantially less frequent in banks than they are in bitcoin exchanges
<ali1234> bitcoin exchanges regularly pay for smaller mistakes
<BigRedS> by 'go wrong' I mean 'gets broken into/compromised/robbed'
<ali1234> if they didn't they would quickly lose all their customers
<BigRedS> oh, maybe I've not been paying enough attention recently
<ali1234> you just don't hear about it unless you have an account at the specific exchange
<ali1234> you should really trust any exchange that hasn't been hacked
<shauno> there doesn't seem to be any legal response in these though.  that's the unnerving bit
<ali1234> it's only a matter of time really
<DJones> The last couple bitcoin thefts that have been publicised appear to be more a case that the entire exchange has been wiped out either by internal/external theft leaving them with nothing, which would be comparable with Barclays having every fund held on deposit transferred out & the bank crashing
<shauno> if 1m GBP is taken from a bank, there's a taskforce.  if the equivalence in BTC is hacked, there's a slashdot article
<ali1234> also you shouldn't treat exchanges like banks in the first place
<ali1234> DJones: yeah, that's cos you never hear about the small hacks that they recover from
<DJones> ali1234: Agreed
<DJones> Thats the same as the major banks, small (to them) thefts don't get reported either
<ali1234> for example when btc-e were hacked the hacker could only withdraw the hot wallet (which is like robbing only the tills but not the vault)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Kindness Day! :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-*
<MooDoo> JamesTait: pah get stuffed ;)
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: what kind?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, what kind of kindness?
<MartijnVdS> just the regular kind, I guess?
 * JamesTait hands MooDoo a coffee.
<popey> kindness? http://media.sfx.co.uk/files/2011/09/Doctor-Who-The-Girl-Who-Waited-100911.jpg
<MooDoo> JamesTait: thanks sie!
<MooDoo> s/sie/sir
<JamesTait> Thank you popey, very kind of you. :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "Danken Sie" is (almost?) German :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - Amy Pond. Can I say "phwaaar"?
<BigRedS> is he looking through a magnifying glass at her bottom?
<JamesTait> Looks that way.
<MartijnVdS> that's her husband
<MartijnVdS> so he's allowed to do that
<JamesTait> He also looks quite astonished at what he sees.
<SuperMatt> http://www.supermatt.net/2013/11/my-response-to-the-government-response/
<SuperMatt> I just emailed my MP with this
<SuperMatt> oh goodie, her surgury is open Friday morning, and I happen to have the day off work
<SuperMatt> I know what I shall be doing
<BigRedS> I forgot the topic had switched from Amy Pond and was a bit confused by those last two lines
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: well she WAS the doctor's companion
<MartijnVdS> speakign of which.. tomorrow: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03hybnv
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, I want to see that
<popey> SuperMatt / MooDoo how are the hangouts going?
<MooDoo> popey: supermatt has done quite a few, I don't have my invite from google yet, so don't have a helpout url.
<MooDoo> they seem to be going ok, although from what SuperMatt has been saying a lot of helpouts he's done have been a lot more involved that new users
<MooDoo> s/than
<SuperMatt> indeed
<ali1234> not surprised really
<ali1234> ubuntu just isn't that hard to use
<SuperMatt> and it's a little frustrating that large numbers of people keep not turning up
<ali1234> if you can't figure out how to install it, you probably can't figure out how to use hangouts either
<ali1234> SuperMatt: do you charge? if so, do you still get pad if people don't show?
<SuperMatt> I don't charge
<ali1234> well... maybe you should?
<SuperMatt> if they don't show for a paid one, you get 50% of the first 15 minutes of a per minute charge
<SuperMatt> it's a tricky balance
<ali1234> i would charge at least 25p/minute
<SuperMatt> that's Â£15 an hour, and some of the helpouts go on to about that
<SuperMatt> it's way more than I want to charge people
<ali1234> yes, exactly
<SuperMatt> an alternative I've been thinking about running is changing people a nominal fee, say Â£5 an hour, and then paying it back to people when theyd o show
<popey> why not charge people?
<ali1234> and why not charge people a fair amount for the work?
<popey> yeah, that's what I'd do
<ali1234> Â£15/hour is cheap for "phone" one-on-one support, when you don't have to go through first line
<MooDoo> I think as it's a new idea, we're taking it slow, charging people will probably come when we've ironed out the kinks
<SuperMatt> google are looking in to options for charging for no shows, but still allowing free sessions
<SuperMatt> but I might start charging a fiver
<SuperMatt> because the no shows have really put me off doing it
<popey> well
<popey> part of the reason for no-show is not charging
<SuperMatt> sure
<popey> if you charge people are more likely to come
<SuperMatt> indeed
<ali1234> even if you only charge Â£1 it will get rid of the timewasters
<SuperMatt> true
<SuperMatt> I'm gonna try 10p a minute, we can see how things go
<popey> whats the average for existing tech support people?
<SuperMatt> there's a lot of free stuff going on
<SuperMatt> some people run two, a sort of free clinic, and a paid version
<popey> $1/m seems common
<SuperMatt> what I might do is have my "free clinic" always run from 6.30-7.30, and after that you have to pay
<SuperMatt> I'll run that as an experiment next week
<popey> you should blog more â»
<SuperMatt> should I?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> and yes
<SuperMatt> about my experiences with helpouts?
<SuperMatt> there, I've configured a free clinic helpout (waiting for review) and a paid version
<popey> yes, there's only one post so far
<SuperMatt> righto
<SuperMatt> I'll do it later today
<SuperMatt> busy now writing an internal wiki entry on cgroups
<bashrc> what did people do before wikis?
<SuperMatt> copious amounts of word documents, which got emailed around so everyone had different versions
<BigRedS> people still do that
<SuperMatt> very true
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> Ow do MooDoo
<penguin42> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNkDJk5_9eU    someone has been doing odd things to their geekos
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> moring bigcalm
<bigcalm> Howdy MooDoo
<MooDoo> :D
<arsen> christ
<MooDoo> arsen: what a greeting, but no, MooDoo is fine ;)
<arsen> :D
<arsen> i'm not sure SuSE should be allowed to do that
<davmor2> bigcalm: you having steak tonight by any chance?
<bigcalm> davmor2: we shall see. No guarantee
<bigcalm> davmor2: I see we might have a Mr Evil with us tonight
<bigcalm> davmor2: what are the chances that Pete shows up just to taunt him? :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I know I nearly fell outta my seat when I saw that :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: nil Pete is a wuss
<MooDoo> arsen: oh dear, hmmm we could do our own....what does popey say?
<bigcalm> Hehe
<popey> I think it's a surprisingly well done spoof
<arsen> it is, but .. suse? really? :/
<bigcalm> What does the jonno say? Community-community-community-community-community
<MooDoo> czajkowski: goes aloha, bigcam goes....oh I see it now ;)
<arsen> having to suffer SuSE on a daily basis, and having recently interacted with some of their employees - i'm surprised they came up with that.
<popey> kinda surprised the video hasn't had more views
<popey> but yeah, suse
<arsen> shame it wasn't a tux one inspired one.
<bigcalm> What video are you peeps talking about?
<arsen> that makes no sense, but you understand what i tried to type.
<MooDoo> hasn't had more views
<MooDoo> 10:14 < popey> but yeah, suse
<MooDoo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNkDJk5_9eU
<BigRedS> shouldn't they be fixing yast rather than making silly videos?
<MooDoo> this one BigRedS
<arsen> ^
<penguin42> BigRedS: Perhaps this is what they do in the long dark evenings
<popey> mission accomplished though, we all saw it â»
<MooDoo> you do realise we'll have to do one "what does the tahr say" before next april ;)
<ali1234> presumably it was made for the conference which is currently happening?
<arsen> on that note - anyone used an alternative to NIS/YP in an enterprise environment? ideally with ubuntu?
<arsen> hah i got an invite to that, ali1234
<bigcalm> Oh my, that was a bit silly
<MooDoo> liny goes...pangolin goes .... and the ocelot says ow ow ow ;)
<MooDoo> ok i'll shut up
<popey> MooDoo: no, because by april the meme will be older than it already is
<popey> it would be like making spoofs of the "I'm a PC" apple advert
<popey> Hello Novell!
<ali1234> that could actually be quite funny
<MooDoo> hehe I know just making me smile :D
<popey> being funny and being current are different things
<MooDoo> pah!
<ali1234> yeah, but you could do it ironically, in order to make fun of suse
<popey> oh, meta
<penguin42> arsen: People tend to use ldap these days
<arsen> "would you like to come to the SuSE conference?"    " .. i'd rather fork my own eyes out."
<ali1234> one conference is very much like another
<arsen> crap? :)
<ali1234> well it beats working
<arsen> i duno, i've been to some...
<arsen> free food and booze is nice, and if its somewhere expenses paid in a nice location with travel.. maybe.
<BigRedS> ali1234: the conferency bit, perhaps. But the reason to go is the lunch and that is a variable
<davmor2> MooDoo: the Tahr bleets it's a goat D'oh.  That or it sings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIyixC9NsLI
<popey> UDS in Texas had an awesome BBQ
<bigcalm> popey: was that the one where you went with a beach ball?
<popey> no, that was Oakland
<bigcalm> That photo still haunts me
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> Oh, photos are slowly emerging from the wedding
<arsen> I just did the Fujitsu one, it was a great .. event?
<bigcalm> Who wants a laugh?
<arsen> o/ bigcalm
<popey> uhoh
<BigRedS> haha
<davmor2> bigcalm: go on then
<bigcalm> popey: only from the photo booth so far. I note that you didn't use it?
<arsen> the suspense...
<bigcalm> http://hayleyandiainaregettingmarried.com/photos/nggallery/photos/photo-booth/
<popey> ahh, no
 * penguin42 wonders what that domain name is for
<bigcalm> Unless you know the people in the photos, I guess they won't be that funny
<bigcalm> penguin42: maybe I should have registered hayleyandiaingotmarried.com as well
<davmor2> bigcalm: why does the bottom one of sweets actually suit him
<bigcalm> popey: AlanBell: if either of you took photos and fancy sending them to me, we'd really appreciate it :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: Ad was determined to keep a sullen expression the entire time. I made him laugh for the last one though :D
<popey> http://www.ekoore.com/web/it/prodotti/go-watch/go-watch-2/panoramica-22.html
<bigcalm> â¬130 nice
<bigcalm> Bluetooth is a drain though
<arsen> looks cool popey, i'm still not convinced there's a proper market for those though, unless it totally replaces the phone itself.
<ali1234> i would buy a nice looking watch with a nice oled screen even if it wasn't a "smart" watch as long as it wasn't stupidly expensive
<dwatkins> My watch buzzed and told me my SD card would be delivered shortly.
<DJones> dwatkins: And then the watch ejected the SD card?
<dwatkins> haha
<ali1234> why doesn't autossh actually work?
<mungbean> https://medium.com/thoughts-on-creativity/6f4cb1886d41
<mungbean> it'll all end in tears when the house burns down and the dinos steal the car
<Laney> my chair is now listing heavily
<Laney> distressing creaks with every movement
<Laney> might need to replace it ...
<dwatkins> ali1234: I find you have to provide a numer with the -M option which isn't in use by another process, so I have an alias that uses -M $RANDOM in the line
<dwatkins> *number
<dwatkins> is there an easy way to get Flash to work from a USB stick having booted raring?
<dwatkins> I don't see a flashplayer entry in the apt-cache search output
<SuperMatt> you need to enable to extra sources
<SuperMatt> only main is enabled in the iso
<dwatkins> ah yes, I'm not installing so it never asked me the question
<SuperMatt> flash is in multiverse
<dwatkins> where does the .so file live inside the mozille installation directory, then? I can't see a plugins dir in /usr/share/mozilla
<SuperMatt> /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
<dwatkins> ah cool, I'll just create the directory, thanks SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> you're welcome
<dwatkins> sadly that appears not to be enough, perhaps it'll go into my homedirectory ok
<SuperMatt> maybe
<SuperMatt> fingers crossed
<dwatkins> I could just install chromium, but I'm determined now ;)
<MartijnVdS> XPS 12 - works fine with Ubuntu, except for one bug (if you keep the touch screen enabled, the trackpad doesn't do more than "basic mouse" features)
<popey> heh https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/editions/2012-editions/express.aspx
<popey> (scroll down)
<MartijnVdS> (the rotating screen Dell laptop)
<MartijnVdS> popey: nice community logo ;)
<dwatkins> bingo
<SuperMatt> they almost look like a group of friends in a circle
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: *um bongo?
<dwatkins> it needed me to copy libflashplayer.so to ~/.mozilla/firefox/[$RANDOM_REFERENCE].default/plugins/
<dwatkins> hehe
<SuperMatt> dwatkins: yeah, that would deffo work :)
<SuperMatt> any reason why you didn't just want to install from multiverse?
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: not sure how I'd enable that after booting from USB
<SuperMatt> edit /etc/apt/sources.list.d
<SuperMatt> no
<dwatkins> ah yes
<dwatkins> done it before, come to think of it
<SuperMatt> edit /etc/apt/sources.list
<dwatkins> so long ago, when I installed 8.04, probably
<SuperMatt> that was my first ubuntu
<SuperMatt> haven't looked back since
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: You've reported that you've now got Android 4.3 on your SGS3. Are you running stock? I'm still stuck on 4.1.2
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: neither had I until the recent political fun with Mir vs Weyland, not sure how things might pan-out.
<popey> Hmm, 4.4 is supposed to hit the N7 today
<DJones> It hasn't hit mine or my wifes yet
<popey> ditto
<MartijnVdS> popey: old or new? or both>?
<popey> both
<popey> n10 too
<DJones> Ours are new models
<MartijnVdS> popey: OK, I'll probably get a call from my mother then :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: are you running stock as it's not been upgraded from 4.1.2 yet
<bigcalm> MooDoo: I'm running whatever came with the phone from T-Mobile
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i'm only running 4.3 as i'm using cyanogenmod
<bigcalm> MooDoo: so Samsung's own fun
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yeah basically updates from samsung are pants
<directhex> android sucks for updates
<DJones> For a 65 year old looking to buy a new desktop machine, for use with email/internet/word processing etc, can you think of a reason not to buy a cheapish machine with a celeron processor, he's not going to be a power user
<MartijnVdS> directhex: not on Nexuses
<MooDoo> carrier based android sucks, if you have a nexus it doesn't
<directhex> no, it sucks on nexuses too, compared to iphone
<directhex> it's just far far worse on not-nexus
<MooDoo> ios7 nuff said lol ha ha ha ha haha ha ha
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Yep - stock SGS3 not rooted. Got a note to update yesterday afternoon...
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: which network?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Vodafone
<bigcalm> Okay, ta
<TheOpenSourcerer> np
<directhex> MooDoo, yes, ios 7. which runs on iphone 4 (june 2010), i.e. iphones have >3 years of OS updates
<directhex> MooDoo, that's older than the nexus S, which received its last OS update in October 2012
<MooDoo> directhex: i was having a bit of fun sorry :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: mine has the update available and I have no sim in it :)
<bigcalm> Ah, I see
<bigcalm> I bet it's because I have an early release of the hardware
<davmor2> bigcalm: just go into setting and click on the update option
<davmor2> bigcalm: I thought that got changed didn't you send it back?
<bigcalm> davmor2: I did, but they sent the same device back
<bigcalm> I've gone to software update many times. It always says I have the latest version installed
<davmor2> bigcalm: Settings â About Device â Check for updates
<bigcalm> Yes, I know
<popey> directhex: what's the apple policy? last 3 supported devices get updates or something?
<directhex> popey, no hard & fast policy afaik. just "3 years ish" seems to apply
<directhex> no ios 7 for 3gs, but ios 6 was on there
<awilkins> if( steve_needs_new_yacht() ) {
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: tim*
<awilkins>         dont_update();
<awilkins> } else {
<awilkins>     do_update();
<awilkins> }{
<shauno> steve got a new yacht, and it's hideous :/
<davmor2> bigcalm: switch of mobile data and then try on just wifi
<MartijnVdS> shauno: yeah it came through my town
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.alphens.nl/nieuws/overig/6428,iboat-van-steve-jobs-door-alphen.html
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, The code hasn't been updated yet
<bigcalm> davmor2: no change
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: lesson: use titles/roles, not individual names ;)
<shauno> lol, 'jacht' just loks wrong
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, But yachts are such a personal preference...
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's pronounced the same, almost :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: sucks to be you dude :D
<bigcalm> :P
<popey> my ipad is still rocking ios 5
<popey> still gets used very often, more so than the newer/faster android tablets
<MartijnVdS> I almost never use my Xoom, but I do use my Chromebook a lot
<MartijnVdS> keyboard++
<bigcalm> I use my Xoom quite a bit. It took a star role at my wedding
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: so you could remember your vows/
<bigcalm> :P
<shauno> I thought the star roles was meant to be hers :p
<bigcalm> I said 'a', not 'the'
<bigcalm> It was used as the photobooth
<MartijnVdS> oh that's a cute idea :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Think I might have been one of the (un)lucky ones then... http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/521732/20131113/samsung-galaxy-s3-4-3-jelly-bean.htm
<MartijnVdS> my sister is marrying next summer, suggesting that now :)
<awilkins> Are we discussing kitkat updates?
<MooDoo> awilkins: any android updates :)
<dwatkins> Talking about this version of Android is going to amuse me all the time.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mine went to 4.3 yesterday evening.
<dwatkins> I'm still on Gingerbread ;)
<MooDoo> I'm on cyanogenmod, just waiting for 4.4 nightlies
<dwatkins> I'm on CM 7.2, but my phone's so old they stopped updating it with new builds.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I read with interest the new CM installer is now on Google Play.
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: ah. I wonder if the SGS3 will see any more updates or if that's it
<awilkins> Nexii 4 and 7.0, quite OK with where they are right now
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: they've even stopped updating the xoom now (cyanogen)
<dwatkins> heh, we have a Xoom in the office, it's a beast
<bigcalm> My wife loves the Tesco Hudl I gave her
<dwatkins> They're selling those at the Tesco near here, looks like a fairly good and recent Android version.
<awilkins> My mother-in-law just got one on her Clubcard points
<MartijnVdS> "Hudl"? A web 2.0 name!
<dwatkins> free?
<awilkins> For my daughter for Christmas
<awilkins> dwatkins, All but a tenner
<dwatkins> nice
<bigcalm> I prefer to use clubcard points on meals out. Get 4 times the face value that way
<awilkins> I actually don't have one
<bigcalm> Have one what?
<awilkins> Possibly I am a stupid tinfoil hat wearing gimp, since they no doubt tie my purchase history to my CC hashes anyway
<awilkins> Clubcard
<bigcalm> Ah
<mgdm> has anyone used the Hudl? What Android version is it on, and what's the UI like?
<bigcalm> I quite like the offers they send to us
<directhex> awilkins, they can't legally tie purchase history to credit card numbers
<directhex> awilkins, which is the only reason to create clubcard
<awilkins> Has anyone ROOTED the Hudl and can I nuke it with KitKat as soon as my daughter gets it
<awilkins> directhex, What about hashes?
<bigcalm> mgdm: wonderful screen. quick and smooth. I think it's running 4.2, but might be 4.3
<directhex> mgdm, it's stock android, except with a "T" button on the home/back/switch row to launch tesco apps
<directhex> mgdm, and it's on ICS
<mgdm> ah ha, thanks
<directhex> awilkins, you can't use data for purposes other than which they were provided for. data protection act basics. so hashes no different. they can't track you by credit card as they didn't gather your credit card number for that purpose
 * mgdm will probably stick to acquiring a Nexus 7 some time soonish
<directhex> the hudl is excellent for Â£9
<bigcalm> mgdm: 4.2.2 (just checked)
<mgdm> directhex: CC points?
<mgdm> bigcalm: ta
<directhex> mgdm, exactly
<directhex> mgdm, it's Â£119, and you can get Â£10 hudl/accessory vouchers, for Â£5 in CC points
<directhex> it's archos underneath, fwiw
<directhex> rockchip soc, iirc
<mgdm> directhex: Hmm, might look into that then
<mungbean> whats the deal with hudl?
<MartijnVdS> Big Tesco is Watching You ?
<mungbean> directhex: how many clubcard Â£Â£ did you spend on it?
<directhex> mungbean, Â£55
<mungbean> i spent mine on RAC :(
<mungbean> so u ditched ur touchpad?
<Azelphur> Anyone know how to wipe the cache/cookies/... for a specific site in chromium?
<dwatkins> Azelphur: this plugin might work in Chromium, I use it in Chrome for this https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/clear-cache/cppjkneekbjaeellbfkmgnhonkkjfpdn?hl=en
<Azelphur> looks handy
<directhex> mungbean, yes
<mungbean> mine is limping along, slow and battered
<Azelphur> lol found a "solution" just launch the page I'm trying to look at in incognito mode! \o/
<ali1234> AlanBell: wifi isn't just shared with other wifi devices, it's shared with everything that generates RFI
 * MartijnVdS has a Wi-Spy, which shows this nicely
<ali1234> it's also half-duplex by nature
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: sure, but a network with 20 devices on it shouldn't have a max speed of (max speed of AP)/20
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: No, it's much worse than that
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: not on 802.11n at least
<AlanBell> yeah, wifi is slow, but it shouldn't be as slow as I am measuring
<penguin42> really? I'd expected to have a lot of collision overhead
<ali1234> wireless max speeds are only achievable with the devices right next to each other inside a faraday cage
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: oh sure, but it's not a timeslot thing -- when 20 devices are connected to a wifi network, and only 1 device (and the AP) are actively active, speed should be near-optimal
<AlanBell> yup, but I can't see any evidence of N existing
<ali1234> maybe your driver doesn't support it
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: iw wlan0 link
<AlanBell> and nowhere near the 54Gb/sec that G should do
<penguin42> M
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: do you have an (older) intel chip?
<ali1234> i have never seen 54G do better than 10mbit
<ali1234> and usually it's more like 5mbit
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6411084/
<AlanBell> iw dev wlan0 link
<AlanBell> wlan1 in my case
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: 135 megabits link, on a 40MHz wide channel
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: what kind of speeds are you getting (Wifi -> wired and wifi->wifi)
<MartijnVdS> -58dBm isn't bad either
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you could look for interference with something like this: http://www.ebay.it/itm/Wi-spy-2-4i-analizzatore-di-spettro-a-2-4GHz-WI-FI-/150764963476
<MartijnVdS> (it's the old model but it works fine -- it's a 2.4GHz receiver, you can use the "spectools" package to use it in Ubuntu)
<AlanBell> something has changed, this is looking OK http://paste.ubuntu.com/6411123/
<AlanBell> that was wired to wifi, both proper computers
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: the microwave is off? neighbors on same channel stopped downloading?
<penguin42> slightly drier air? It chose a different channel?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: 5GHz vs 2.4?
<ali1234> http://www.ebuyer.com/497518-d-link-48-10-100-1000-base-t-port-with-4-x-1000base-t-sfp-ports-dgs-1210-52
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: those seem quite wired
<ali1234> exactly
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but my new laptop doesn't even come with an ethernet port!
<MartijnVdS> 	signal: -36 dBm
<MartijnVdS> 	tx bitrate: 300.0 MBit/s MCS 15 40Mhz short GI
<MartijnVdS> so I'm not complaining or anything..
<AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-SG1024D-24-Port-Gigabit-Rackmount/dp/B003UWXFM0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384355768&sr=8-1&keywords=tp+link+24+port+switch is what I was thinking of
<ali1234> it's only 24 port...
<MartijnVdS> it's tp-link
<MartijnVdS> (which tends to be fine for wifi, but I don't know if they know >8 port switches very well)
<AlanBell> it is also gigabit, which might be handy for other things one day
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yeah, my home network is gigabit :)
<ali1234> you want gigabit for this
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: in preparation of the 500/500 uplink I'm getting :)
<popey> \o/ GbE
<popey> [  3]  0.0-10.0 sec  1.09 GBytes   934 Mbits/sec
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> r|~N^"vOp;)-ws60
<bigcalm> Humm, this isn't my terminal
<bigcalm> As you were
<davmor2> bigcalm: this isn't the terminal you are looking for
<AlanBell> its tail is too fluffy
 * bigcalm clutches his head
<bigcalm> Damn pains
<AlanBell> Bus 001 Device 004: ID 0bda:8176 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8188CUS 802.11n WLAN Adapter
<AlanBell> that is really slow
<bigcalm> AlanBell: fluffy?
<AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thats-Puppy-Usborne-Touchy-Feely/dp/0746037783
<bigcalm> Ah
 * penguin42 finds a load of computer catalogues from ~91
<DJones> ok, for all the dog haters/cat lovers out there, this is a picture specially for you https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/q71/1470363_598597980225237_945445698_n.jpg
<penguin42> Acorn R260 8MB for only #4913
<DJones> penguin42: What are front covers advertising as the latest and greatest
<mungbean> imagine if you invested that money into acorn shares instead
<mungbean> in 91
<mungbean> you could retire now
<penguin42> DJones: Well, a catalogue with A Sparcstation 2 (#12400 !)
<penguin42> or an HP Apollo 9000/425t
<penguin42> FX-850 printer
<SuperMatt> *grumble* I've just compiled nginx from source on two different machines, but with the packages, and one it working and the other isn't :(
<DJones> I can remember the printer (or at least very similar), it was almost as good as a shredder
<penguin42> SuperMatt: I think there is an nginx dev that hangs out in -bugs or +1
<SuperMatt> I'm just having a bit of a moan
<Laney> AlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer: saw this and thought of you http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/debian-uk/2013-November/000234.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> Laney: Thanks but Lancashire! Ewww. That's 'tup North.
<Laney> nice scenery, nice beer
<Laney> it'd be rate grate
<DJones> Home of the Black Pudding
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm...
<mgdm> Naaa. Stornoway is the home of the black pudding. ;-)
<penguin42> Laney: Hmm they should try a ManLUG list
<Laney> might have done too
<DJones> mgdm: Didn't realise it was traditional there as well, just reading up, also says its traditional in the west midlands as well
<TheOpenSourcerer> There are a couple of OpenERP partners up that way too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://www.openerp.com/partners/directory/GB/United+Kingdom
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thank "What Giants" are in Leeds
<TheOpenSourcerer> Opus & Credativ are in the midlands.
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: I thought I read this morning that you'd abandoned nginx? :)
<SuperMatt> on my blog?
<SuperMatt> that's just personal use stuff
<SuperMatt> I still have a requirement for it as a reverse proxy on company web servers
<penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Excuse me, Leeds is on the other side of the pennines!
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: yeah
<BigRedS> we used it briefly for reverse proxying before deciding it was an arse. we generally use varnish now
<SuperMatt> I don't blame you
<BigRedS> most of the time we want a reverse proxy we want an accelerator
<SuperMatt> actually, it's mroe being used as a load balancer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have mailed Sam. Thanks Laney
<BigRedS> yeah; I'd decided it was an arse before we started using it :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> penguin42: North is simply north to me.
<Laney> cool, ta for following up
<BigRedS> varnish can do that, too :)
<SuperMatt> the one thing I want is for it to continue to use the same backend despite config reloads
<TheOpenSourcerer> I did a "North-o-meter" test on Facebook the other day and was very proud to have scored 0% Northishness.
<SuperMatt> so I can add extra backends and it continue using the same one
<SuperMatt> for ws:// connections
<mgdm> Hmm
<mgdm> I doubt I'd run ws:// through Varnish
<Laney> I got a few percent I think
<Laney> was in Bournemouth
<mungbean> i'm considering blocking anyone who does the northometer on my facebook
<BigRedS> I got "20%; around London" which was exactly correct
<SuperMatt> you're just jealous of my 0%
<SuperMatt> mgdm: what would you use then?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mine said 0% and somewhere near Jersey ;-)
<arsen> 60% ftw.
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: yeah, not sure if it can do that. I interact with it very little and keep getting mailservers to deal with instead :(
<mgdm> SuperMatt: probably something lower-level. Running WS stuff through a pipe in Varnish ties up a connection
<Laney> arsen: what is a barm cake?
<SuperMatt> booo
<SuperMatt> mailservers are the worst
<SuperMatt> mgdm: fair enough
<BigRedS> I like to think I'm on a journey towards a zen-like understanding of them
<arsen> crappy bun iirc, Laney
<ali1234> Laney: it's what is called a cob in nottingham
<arsen> i live in SW London, i'd not say the north-o-meter is very accurate.
<SuperMatt> I wonder if maybe I should just stick ha proxy at the front of my webserver and direct the traffic that way
<SuperMatt> but I have no experience of haproxy
<ali1234> londoners would probably call it a bread roll
<SuperMatt> depends on the type of roll
<SuperMatt> could be a baguette
<arsen> anyone who knows what i mean when i say "stop being a mardy and eat a cob" is living on a higher plane of existence. welcome.
<SuperMatt> bap
<SuperMatt> I never hear anyone saying cob
<arsen> then you are a lowbie.
<SuperMatt> I am
<SuperMatt> I very rarely spend time beyond zone 2 in north london
<SuperMatt> sorry, make that zone 3
<arsen> i try to avoid north london altogether.
<SuperMatt> I love it
<arsen> cob is a nottingham thing.
<BigRedS> north london's the best bit of london
<BigRedS> well, the southerly bit of north london
<Laney> yeah I hear cob
<Laney> there's a sandwich shop down the road called 'the cob stop'
<arsen> where are you, Laney ?:)
<Laney> NG
<arsen> gotcha
<Laney> the place to be
<arsen> didn't know anyone in NG knew what Linux was :D
<arsen> One day i'll consider moving back to notts, i miss chips n gravy.
<SuperMatt> you know you can just add your own gravy, right?
<SuperMatt> cheese and cheese is supposed to be the thing down here, but I'm finding fewer and fewer places doing it
<BigRedS> cheese and cheese? Sounds ideal
<SuperMatt> *chips
<arsen> cheesey chips is a national thing
<arsen> but down south they either never sell gravy, or offer some godawful "Curry" sauce.
<BigRedS> yeah, I've seen that all over the place. Though I don't recall seeing it in London
<TheOpenSourcerer> I though Chips and cheese was a welsh thing.
<SuperMatt> put simply, I want chips and cheese!
<SuperMatt> someone please give it to me
<ali1234> move to canada
<SuperMatt> NOW
<TheOpenSourcerer> When we play golf in Swansea that's what they sell in the after drinking chip/kebab shops
<Laney> there's NLUG but apparently they're quite 'boozy'
<TheOpenSourcerer> Never heard of it until going there.
<Laney> if you like that kind of thing
<davmor2> popey: bigcalm: VM have they changed their lease time my router is only staying on for an hour at a time before a release and renew happens
<popey> which modem?
<bigcalm> davmor2: I haven't been notified of such. And my IP address doesn't appear to have changed for a long time
<davmor2> bigcalm: Remaining Lease Time
<davmor2> 0 days 00:45:24
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'd say there was a problem in your area
<davmor2> popey: TP-link  plugged into the super hub
<bigcalm> Expires: 1d 17h 37m 18s
<bigcalm> Connected: 40d 6h 20m 36s
<davmor2> popey: I noticed it since Monday evening every hour irc stopped and restarted
 * bigcalm hugs his router
 * penguin42 had seen a couple of odd drops in the alst few days
<popey> not seen that here
<popey> I have the same IP I have had for ages
<bigcalm> Uptime of router itself: 126d 2h 42m 12s
<bigcalm> Quite pleasing to have stable hardware for a change
<davmor2> popey: my ip isn't changing that's the annoying thing
<davmor2> I'll give VM a ring I think
<bigcalm> Have fun with their menu system
<penguin42> davmor2: You're going to try and phone VM about something that isn't actually completely dead?
<shauno> is there anywhere else I should be looking for usb messages, other than kern.log ?
<bigcalm> dmesg
<penguin42> shauno: What USB issues do you have?
<shauno> SD cards aren't showing up when I stick them in my cardreader
<penguin42> shauno: Even after a cold boot?
<penguin42> shauno: And is it an external reader or internal?
<shauno> the reader is showing up itself as sdb through sde, but no sign of anything attached to them when I put a card in  (external)
<penguin42> does /proc/partitions show anything on the sdb/sde sizes?
<shauno> it doesn't mention them at all, just sda (the fixed disk)
<penguin42> if it's external, what happens if you plug it in with the SD card already in?
<shauno> exactly the same message as without
<penguin42> how big an SD?
<shauno> two cards, both 4gig, both sdhc
<shauno> hm that's a point actually.  I wonder if this reader's too old for those
<Myrtti> oh my gawd, there's a giant meerkat in my living room
<AlanBell> do you have a normal sized one to compare it to?
<Myrtti> AlanBell: do you mean that I should.... compare the meerkats?
<davmor2> hahaha so they are sending out and engineer who won't be able to do anything I imagine as it is likely a issue on their end genius thank you india
<davmor2> Myrtti: man you need to stop eating those mushrooms
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh that's what I was thinking, I've got an external reader that won't manage more than 1
<shauno> going nuts trying to dd an image to a card.  osx keeps giving up with a variety of errors, and I can't find anything else to test them on
<Myrtti> AlanBell, davmor2: http://flickr.com/gp/myrtti/b0o5b1
<SuperMatt> shauno: if dd is giving you errors, I would assume a disk somewhere is properly fubared
<penguin42> shauno: You do realise SD cards are made of cheese?
<davmor2> Myrtti: that's one big sergey :D
<shauno> trying to rule out that osx is drunk first, because a) it usually is, and b) I'm too lazy to go find more 4GB cards
<SuperMatt> maybe boot ubuntu from a memory stick
<penguin42> shauno: Do you have something like a camera that exposes it's SD via usb?
<shauno> nope, still compactflash
 * penguin42 blinks
<penguin42> shauno: Is that very old compactflash or very highend compact flash ?
<shauno> it's 2005 I guess
<shauno> I mean, it was an $800 camera.  but it's also quite old now.
<penguin42> hmm, only his 1st cheap cam was CF - I think that was more 2000 ish
<penguin42> ah ok, higher end
 * penguin42 finds some code he wrote in 2002 to download from it :-)
<penguin42> cheap early digi
<penguin42> 2.3MPixel!
<shauno> man, if amazon keep it up like this, it's going to be easier to go into town to shop
<directhex> argh
<directhex> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<directhex>  linux-image-3.2.0-56-virtual : Conflicts: linux-image-3.2.0-56-virtual:i386 but 3.2.0-56.86 is to be installed.
<directhex>  linux-image-3.2.0-56-virtual:i386 : Conflicts: linux-image-3.2.0-56-virtual but 3.2.0-56.86 is installed.
<shauno> hah, okay. Amazon won't ship SD cards to Ireland.
<SuperMatt> huh?
<SuperMatt> bizarre
<directhex> special anti-piracy tax?
<SuperMatt> have you tried going to amazon.ie?
<shauno> it just redirects you to .co.uk
<shauno> ah, there we are .. right at the bottom of http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201337930  .. items that can be delivered to the UK only includes "Blank media items, such as blank CDs and DVDs ."
<directhex> special anti-piracy tax.
<SuperMatt> blank media tax, what a con. It's not like they can prove you're going to use the blank media for piracy
<SuperMatt> actually, let me summarise that last sentence
<SuperMatt> tax, what a con.
<shauno> not sure why that's an issue, can't they just charge me it?
<shauno> oh well.  got them from .de instead.  the shipping is still cheaper than a bus into town
<SuperMatt> lols
<shauno> really though, what a silly tax. especially on SD cards, whose primary use is probably cameras  (and smuggling movies into prisons)
<shauno> unrelated topic, when did PCs start combining esata & usb2 into the same port?
<penguin42> oh there's some pseudo standard for that
<penguin42> I think it technically violates both standards but works well
<shauno> I've got one on a hp probook here, took me a while to figure out what it is.  still haven't figured out what the port next to it is
<penguin42> picture?
<penguin42> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESATAp - huh hadn't realised there was a variation with 12v
<shauno> http://cl.ly/image/2X2a3H0k382h   I see usb+esata, usb, and then ..
<penguin42> display port?
<penguin42> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort  yep
<shauno> really?
<mgdm> yep
<mgdm> I have one on a ThinkPad
<shauno> interesting.  I've only ever seen mini-dp in the wild
<mgdm> it's electrically not unlike HDMI, but about one-eighth as useful, as you have to get an adapter to plug it into anything
<penguin42> theoretically you can do funky things with them - like chain multiple DP monitors off them
<mgdm> and unlike mini-DP adapters they'renot common
<penguin42> some monitors do DP - bit rare though
<shauno> yeah I'm used to that on mine.  I never actually use mini-dp.  I have mini-dp to dvi-d, mini-dp to hdmi, mini-dp to ethernet .. but nothing that uses mini-dp itself
<penguin42> the multiple independent displays is the most interesting feature
<shauno> odd to stick it with the usb connectors though, instead of with the vga on the back.  oh well.  maybe I'll find a use for it one day
<penguin42> shauno: The VGA connector is probably where it is just because it's bigger
<shauno> I think it makes some sense to have it on the back though.  same with the network connector.  things you don't reach for on a regular basis
<penguin42> depends on your use, if you pick it up every day or a few times a day to go to meeting rooms it's a pain
<popey> golly http://blog.xamarin.com/microsoft-and-xamarin-partner-globally/
<shauno> but meeting rooms all use vga :)
<shauno> vga's already on the back with phone & network.  I plug two of the three in pretty much everywhere I go
<penguin42> popey: Oh interesting, they were the guys who got the SuSE/MS partnership weren't they?
<popey> yeah
<penguin42> popey: Thing is a lot of people like C#
<popey> not surprising really
<popey> yeah, and it's cross platform
<penguin42> there's perhaps nothing else as cross platform and that's not Java
<penguin42> popey: Hmm interesting timing: http://ceylon-lang.org/blog/2013/11/12/ceylon-1/
<popey> so many new things
<penguin42> nod
<bigcalm> Oops, gonna be late for the LUG
 * bigcalm slithers away
<popey> ooh http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03hybnv
<MartijnVdS> popey: tomorrow! :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: did you see http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01lg91q as well?
<popey> ooh
<MartijnVdS> screenshotting while youtubing = fun
<shauno> ah.  sigsur1 doesn't get bsd's dd to print stats.  it just exits.  awkward.
<MartijnVdS> yay GNU extensions
<shauno> apparently it's siginfo on bsd
<MartijnVdS> sure, invent a new signal
<shauno> I'm used to them being a bit weird at times, but why die on usr1?  argh
<MartijnVdS> because that's the default action
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Other things I dislike about BSD: ls -ls foo* vs ls foo* -la
<MartijnVdS> shauno: and "find -name foo" vs "find . -name foo"
<shauno> oh my favourite gripe is that gnu's dd takes bs=1M, bsd's takes bs=1m.  neither will accept the 'wrong' case
<MartijnVdS> argh!
<shauno> it's just so petty, yet I still get it wrong most the time
<MartijnVdS> My old old job used to be a BSD shop, but every sysadmin now prefers Debian (so they're almost done converting)
<MartijnVdS> My old job was a FreeBSD shop
<MartijnVdS> My current job is an Ubuntu shop \o/
<penguin42> It's like ssh and scp - wth does one take -p and the other -P
<MartijnVdS> isn't that another BSD project?
<shauno> so this seems to be where I'm going wrong .. 135004160 bytes transferred in 189.261896 secs (713319 bytes/sec)
<shauno> that's terribly, terribly slow.  makes my transfer 5558 seconds (for 4gig)
<MartijnVdS> what kind of underlying device/fs/etc?
<shauno> sd card from my ssd
<MartijnVdS> SD cards *are* slow
<penguin42> and made from cheese
<penguin42> shauno: What block size, what vendors SD card ?
<shauno> transcend card, sdhc class 6 (so should be 6MB/s)
<penguin42> and how are you writing?
<shauno> default blocksize, so 512
<penguin42> oh god right
<shauno> not sure if it's wise to change it, since the image was pulled at the same?
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh, bad idea - the SD cards tend to have BIG blocks, so writing small things mean reading the big block, making a change, and then writing again and then doing the next bit
<AlanBell> you can change it, that is fine
<penguin42> shauno: You just dd ing onto it? just use bs=1M
<ali1234> make sure you're not running it on USB1 as well
<shauno> it's not on usb.  tis a weird one
<ali1234> some laptops have pci attached readers
<ali1234> they are pretty rare though
<ali1234> and really buggy on linux :/
<shauno> yeah, mac has it pcie-attached.  which is annoying, because it means vmware can't find it
<MartijnVdS> can't vmware forward pci(e) devices as well as usb?
<shauno> fusion doesn't.  they've simplified a whole lot on the mac one.  we don't get the regular Workstation
<shauno> they give me a key for WS, just not an osx build of it :(
<shauno> it's a shame it's the OS that I'm trying to write to this, else it'd be faster to push it across the network
<shauno> (yes that sounds obvious, but the machine only has 128k serial)
<Azelphur> http://bitcoinity.org/markets bitcoin looks set to hit $400 sometime nowish :)
<diddledan> Azelphur: it's now 440?!
<diddledan> wowz
<Azelphur> diddledan: mtgox is artificially inflated, use the bitstamp rate.
<Azelphur> its hovering around $399 to wind me up :P
<Azelphur> big wall at 400 \o/
<diddledan> how's it got so expensive?
<diddledan> expensive - worth so much
<Azelphur> do you mean how is bitcoin so expensive in general, or how mtgox is artificially inflated?
<diddledan> bitcoin in general
<Azelphur> demand.
<Azelphur> simple answer :)
<diddledan> I know it is based on exactly the same principles as standard currency but I just can't seem to wrap my head around it
<Azelphur> diddledan: I think a lot of people seem to be confused by it
<diddledan> I guess I'm turning into a fuddy duddy :-p
<Azelphur> I guess the reason I understand it is because from a very young age I learned that virtual currency was valuable
<Azelphur> even game money
<diddledan> Azelphur: the point that the british banks refuse to have anything to do with anyone who mentions they're backed by bitcoins proves that
<Azelphur> indeed
<mgdm> I remember stories about WoW gold having a comparable exchange rate to some small countries
<diddledan> I think the banking issue is partly because they have no control over it
<mgdm> diddledan: that's absolutely it. they can't tax it
<mgdm> or trace it
<Azelphur> it's a money laundering nightmare
<Azelphur> but then, the entire concept of money laundering is fairly ludicrous anyway.
<Azelphur> "Oh someone robbed someone else and then spent the money at your shop? That's your fault!"
<Myrtti> dwatkins: https://github.com/thiderman/doge/
<dwatkins> Myrtti: oh my
<dwatkins> did you see the MLP terminal application?
<Myrtti> pft mlp
<dwatkins> https://github.com/erkin/ponysay
<shauno> I wonder if you can include that crazy ansi stuff in .cow files
<shauno> seems not; cowsay: Unrecognized character \x1B in column 98 at /usr/share/cowsay/cows/test.cow line 2.
<dwatkins> bah
<penguin42> an escaped escape
<dubaco_> hi
<dubaco_> !help
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-14
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> Pip pip
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning.
<diplo> Morning all
<Myrtti> mÃ¶h
<MooDoo> Myrtti: was that supposed to be meh! ;)
<Myrtti> I've regressed
<dvrr> hiii  good morning  all
<MooDoo> Myrtti: in that case you should understand this ... iwc hfdhdsf ;)
<MooDoo> morning dvrr
<dvrr> vnc server too many security failures  i facesd this problam fast 2 hours how to resolve  please help me
 * dwatkins ponders how to send ctrl+alt+delete to an rdesktop session inside an open NX session on his Mac
<mgdm> taxi?
<dwatkins> is there an on-screen keyboard installed by default in Ubuntu?
<SuperMatt> if amazon is starting to offer windows desktops, how long before they offer linux desktops?
<tripleclones> dwatkins Start | Windows Security if it's a newer version of windows
<dwatkins> tripleclones: urrm, I'm not sure where I'd do that, I can't log in to the virtual machine that's 4.5 miles away ;)
<dwatkins> and I'm controlling it via an Ubuntu server with fluxbox as the window manager
<tripleclones> using rdesktop?
<dwatkins> tripleclones: yeah
<tripleclones> dwatkins - what version of windows
<dwatkins> Server 2k3 R2
<dwatkins> it's at the "press ctrl+alt+del to login" login screen
<tripleclones> dwatkins - ah
<dwatkins> yeah ;)
<tripleclones> I think Ctrl Alt End does it
<dwatkins> after logging in, I have the problem that its updates fail to actually update, but that's a separate issue, and nothing whatsoever to do with Ubuntu (unless it's because I'm running it as a virtual machine on Ubuntu x64 or something)
<dwatkins> hmm, not sure I have a real "end" key hahaha
<tripleclones> dwatkins - ah ;)
<dwatkins> no worries, I'll find a way or wait until I get home
<diddledan> dwatkins: rdesktop on ubuntu uses ctrl+alt+del as the default ctrl+alt+del key sequence I thought?
<diddledan> dwatkins: and on mac the same applies
<dwatkins> hmm, interesting
<dwatkins> perhaps open NX is stopping it from being passed, I'll try sshing directly to the server to run rdesktop
<dwatkins> well, via the machine which I can access...
<dwatkins> tunnelling fun!
<diddledan> if you're on a mac without a delete key tho I'm not sure what the fn+smth key is to get the same functionality
<mgdm> fn+backspace
<diddledan> there ya go
<diddledan> so ctrl+alt+fn+backspace
<dwatkins> bingo, ssh port redirection saves the day :D
<dwatkins> haha, it tries to upgrade the browser, downloads IE8, then tells me it's not supported on this OS *facepalm*
<dwatkins> I'm really glad I don't rely on this OS (although in fairness, I'm using an old version)
<diddledan> wait, ie8 isn't supported on 2k3?
<diddledan> wow
<MartijnVdS> 2k3 is like XP right
<dvrr> popey:
<diddledan> it was a superset of xp with servery stuffs
<diddledan> I think R2 was even vista under the hood
<MartijnVdS> 2008 was vista
<MartijnVdS> I think
<popey> dvrr:
<diddledan> aah yeah, I think you're right - vista came out in 2k7
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: and 2k8r2 was Win7-based
<dvrr> vnc server problem ubuntu12.10
<dvrr> popery: vnc server too many security failures
<diddledan> I think vnc servers have been broken in ubuntu for ages
<dwatkins> Well, it's sitting there using 25% of the CPU to do nothing, so thus far, Windows Server 2003 is pretty useless to me, as it won't even install the security updates.
<diddledan> due to compositing
<AlanBell> why does this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/pics/toolbar-bg.png render differently in firefox to chromium?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: maybe it has a color profile attached/included in the file
<diddledan> looks green in chrome and safari here
<dvrr> how  to fix  this problem
<diddledan> and it looks similar in firefox on osx
<diddledan> so chrome safari and firefox all seem the same on osx
<popey> AlanBell: blamefirefox
<AlanBell> diddledan: it is green, but firefox is rather brighter
<popey> i think its an optical illusion
<AlanBell> it probably is the colour profile in the file, not sure why one of them isn't applying it
<popey> due to the dark background in ff
<AlanBell> nope, however on TheOpenSourcerer's machine I think they are the same
<TheOpenSourcerer> On mine it looks the same in G & FF
<dwatkins> it shows the image in the centre on Firefox on my Mac, whereas Chrome shows it at the top left corner, but the images look the same.
<popey> same here
<popey> but I guess AlanBell is using it on a site, not just on its own
<AlanBell> yeah, it is on a white background in the site
<mungbean> i wonder if school caretakers actually have interviews where they talk, or its just an audition where they walk through carry a bunch of keys and a table. oh, there's a large bulky man with a mullet, he's perfect for the job
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/pics/firefoxchromium.png
<AlanBell> that is a screenshot of the two browsers next to each other, and the difference I see
<AlanBell> firefox is brighter
<MooDoo> mungbean: to be honest, it's pretty impressive what school caretakers have to go through although it's now known as facilities management.
<mungbean> they get a house though
<MooDoo> depends if they outsource it out....my sister and brother in law do it all
<mungbean> our local one looks like he could wrestle a bear and win
<popey> our school caretaker does loads and doesn't get a house
<TheOpenSourcerer> My youngest son's school just "had to let go" its caretaker... He clipped a kid round the ear for being lippy. he was a lovely bloke and had been there for years. All the kids really liked him. One mistake, a bloody stroppy parent and a weak head meant he lost his job.
<MooDoo> no offence TheOpenSourcerer no sympathy, you don't hit kids
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bollocks
<mungbean> on or off duty?
<MooDoo> if someone hit my kids i'd go mental
<popey> moment of weakness no doubt
<mungbean> MooDoo: even if he was giving the guy lip?
<TheOpenSourcerer> "hit" and a clip round the ear are not the same thing.
<mungbean> lots of kids don't have fathers in their lives at all and need a bit of male correction
<TheOpenSourcerer> lots of kids I know need a good kicking if you ask me. Might teach them some manners and respect
<diplo> MooDoo: I'm with TheOpenSourcerer, if he punched him I understood.. if he was putting him in line for being lippy i'd be fine
<MooDoo> well we can't all agree all the time :)
<diplo> It used to happen at school all the time, kids were much better then as they knew they'd get a clip around the ear for being cheeky
<MooDoo> nowadays it's classed as assult.
<diplo> Yeah and it's stupid
<mungbean> then they wonder why 15yr olds are getting stabbed l/r/centre
<popey> they are?
<TheOpenSourcerer> not in Farnham I think.
<dwatkins> this is my favourite video of someone being punched: Buzz Aldrin getting fed-up with a reporter for saying he didn't go to the moon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRBesDx1WQc
<jussi> so, have we all seen the news about Jolla? any thoughts on the phone as a competitor for Ubuntu phone?
<MooDoo> in nottingham they are getting shot ;)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Loosen Up, Lighten Up Day! :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> How pertinent.
<MooDoo> JamesTait: FO! ;)
<SuperMatt> I shall loosen up tonight by hitting the gym
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'll be mostly drinking and eating this evening :-)
<MooDoo> I'm going to purchase some more ghost chilly chutny :D
<JamesTait> I'll be... a monkey's uncle! )
<diplo> I'm going to the cinema
 * JamesTait lets the missing ':' slide.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: do you grow bhut jolkia ?
<mungbean> edmonton has stabbings all the time
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: I grow most things :-)
<popey> jussi: yeah, interesting plan they have
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: you need a summer chilli bbq, ;)
<popey> I'm sure they dont consider ubuntu phone as competition, but they probably see ios, android and wp as competition
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: here's my grow list for next year: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+AlanLord/posts/EjawsX1ybzA
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: "bubblegum" chilli?
<jussi> popey: yes, I agree, except, amended...  "I'm sure they dont consider ubuntu phone as competition, yet"
<TheOpenSourcerer> I need to trim it a bit, but there are others I want to add too!!!
<TheOpenSourcerer> The 7 Pot BG is rather unique.
<popey> Wonder how they'll convince people to make Sailfish apps when they're doing Android emulation
<TheOpenSourcerer> Its stemcap ripens with the pod...
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: well if you get a decent batch of Naga Bhut Jolokia which is my fave, i'll purchase a few from you :D
<popey> I hear the engine they are using for android emulation isn't that great, and some apps wont work in it
<popey> useful stop-gap though
<jussi> popey: good question, I assume the sailfish apps might be slightly faster, being QML instead of Java
<popey> i wouldn't think so
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: Did you see the Dorset Naga that Sea Spring Seeds grew this year for a competition to see how many pods they could get from one plant?
<popey> with ART, the android java apps compile down to native code now
<popey> so potentially much faster than dalvik
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: can't say that I did
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have a guess at how many pods they managed...
<jussi> aah, yes, a good point
<MartijnVdS> dalvik also did that, but less efficiently
<MooDoo> lots
<popey> true
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: go on, i've no idea
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.seaspringseeds.co.uk/news-and-events/competition
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: wow how many
<TheOpenSourcerer> 2407
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ripe ones
<TheOpenSourcerer> One plant
<MooDoo> yes wow that's amazing
<MartijnVdS> did they taste good as well
<jussi> popey: i think you are correct though, this is a stopgap until they fill their own app store. Guess some of the integration thigns will make the desire for salfish apps, as the android ones wont be at all integrated
<popey> yeah, obviously we have the same problem â»
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: my pathetic attempt got me about 2/3 on a plant i did last year, i've a lot to learn my master ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Dorset Naga is a selectively bred Naga Morich.
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: They taste lovely but are very hot. ~1m - 1.2m shu
<TheOpenSourcerer> I didn't do very well with the superhots this year either MooDoo. I had about a dozen Trinidad Scorpion Butch Ts though.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But the Rocoto grew very well
<TheOpenSourcerer> Got lots of big pods from those.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I think plain pepper from the supermarket is "too hot" sometimes
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: so... :)
<SuperMatt> with upstart, can I create "ephemeral" services? that is, I want a daemon which I can stop and start, and maybe have auto-restart if it dies, but only for this session?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<SuperMatt> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: put it on a tmpfs, and overlay-mount that to /etc/init/? ;)
<SuperMatt> sounds a bit over the top :/
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<SuperMatt> but it might be the answer I'm looking for
<SuperMatt> either that or I write the upstart script in such a way that it deletes itself when powering down ;)
<SuperMatt> nope nope nope, overlaying mounts is not the answer
<ali12341> why do you want this?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: writing a virus eh>?
<SuperMatt> for some horizontal scaling. Say I've created an upstart service for a nodejs daemon, and I want to add another nodejs daemon to cope with the load. I figure I'd probably want to create an upstart job on the fly, and have it disappear on restart
<SuperMatt> using upstart, I can control what happens when a daemon dies, such as automatically restarting it
<MartijnVdS> how is running >1 nodejs on the same machine going to help though
<SuperMatt> nginx working as a load balancer
<SuperMatt> it's just a theoretical
<MartijnVdS> can't you just tell the existing nodejs to use all available CPUs?
<SuperMatt> sure
<SuperMatt> but it could be any application, not just node
<SuperMatt> I'm also using cgroups to constrain node anyway, so that if one of the nodes dies, the others pick up the slack, rather than have the whole server fall down
<SuperMatt> that's the downside to just using one nodejs server ;)
<SuperMatt> horizonal scaling > vertical scaling
<MartijnVdS> isn't that what juju and EC2 are for though
<SuperMatt> not if you're not using ec2 ;)
<SuperMatt> though juju might be the answer
<SuperMatt> I guess I could write a charm which adds additional nodes to the machine
<mgdm> I thought Node was single-threaded, so in order to use more than one CPU you had to run more than one process?
<SuperMatt> it is indeed
<SuperMatt> and like I said, if that one node instance falls down, your entire app is down
<mgdm> I was replying mostly to MartijnVdS there :-)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: wow, backwards
<SuperMatt> I think it's kinda deliberate
<SuperMatt> it's supposed to be fast
<ali12341> if you want fast, program in C not javascript
<ali12341> also try to keep your code below 100,000 lines
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: it's eventy and everything is supposed to be non-blocking so it spins threads off left right and centre to handle other things
<MartijnVdS> also, do as little as possible during the request, pre-cache or pre-generate everything you can
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: but that means you need loads of processes and a load balancer or reverse proxy to use all your hardware
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: that works for pretty much any language/platform :-)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: yeah, do less -> stuff gets faster
<GentileBen> MartijnVdS, you must be disappointed rVDS is out of the internationals with a toe injury.
<GentileBen> Er, RVP.
<TheOpenSourcerer> <proud dad>Was talking to my youngest son last night about what he'd been up to at school. Says he was helping his teacher with Scratch ;-) Told me he'd written a version of "Pong" in it. Said it was quite hard getting the "bounce" quite right. He's 9 :-D </proud dad>
<GentileBen> We need VDS to be a gk coach to DdG.
<MartijnVdS> cool :)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I wrote my first code around that age (in GW-BASIC on some PC/XT clone)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think I was hacking around on our first machine (a compukit 101) when I was that age, but just checked and it didn't come out until 1979! I was 14 then...
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I still have my .bas files somewhere :)
<MartijnVdS> spent a few days rescuing them from an old 5.25" floppy a few years ago
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a 5.25" floppy. As my wife likes to call it ;-)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: And when it becomes inflexible, it's 3.5"?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<MartijnVdS> "It's COLD out here!"
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: thats awesome!
<mgdm> what, his 5.25*ahem*
<TheOpenSourcerer> What my 5.25" ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> gah beat me to it mgdm
<MartijnVdS> stop beating your 5.25" here in the channel please
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I was telling him about your kid coding thing.
<popey> i have another starting in a couple of weeks
<TheOpenSourcerer> What was the programme called again?
<GentileBen> MartijnVdS it's more like a 1.8"
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: code club?
<GentileBen> A 1.8" micro-SATA device
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: https://www.codeclub.org.uk/
<TheOpenSourcerer> That was it. Thanks MooDoo
<DJones> For a 65 year old looking to buy a new desktop machine, for use with email/internet/word processing etc, can you think of a reason not to buy a cheapish machine with a celeron processor, he's not going to be a power user, just wondered if anybody would suggest against it
<MartijnVdS> DJones: chromebook?
<DJones> MartijnVdS: He wants a desktop machine and Windows because thats what he's used to
<TheOpenSourcerer> Get one of those ebuyer Zoom things then?
<DJones> The zoostorm ones?
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or similar of course.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Probably make little difference.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Do he have a case and PSU, monitor etc?
<TheOpenSourcerer> You could probably get a mobo, cpu and ram for less.
<DJones> Yeah, but very old
<TheOpenSourcerer> ATX power harness?
<ali12341> if you want windows that pretty much means you will need windows 7
<ali12341> and that means a celeron will not be fast enough
<ali12341> you should get dual core i5 as a minimum
<TheOpenSourcerer> Get him an RPi instead ;-)
<DJones> No idea, its a very old Dell desktop so would think it'll be fairly standard, machine is probably about 10 years old running XP, although I think one HDD's in it has just failed
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: apparently there is this effort to purchase a number of pi's and make a cluster out of them ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh Dell, doubt it. They used to use proprietary power - I had that problem.
<davmor2> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> And RAMBUS :-(
<ali12341> yeah you won't be able to reuse anything from a 10 year old dell
<MooDoo> mornign davmor2
<DJones> To be honest, I wasn't planning on reusing anything, I'd rather he bought something off the shelf so I don't have to fart around with it
<ali12341> optiplex 9020 small form factor 4th generation i5, 8GB, windows 7, Â£641 + VAT and shipping
<DJones> Thats about twice what he planning on paying, TheOpenSourcerer's suggestion of the zoostorm machines is a good one
<ali12341> well that's the cost of running windows for you
<ali12341> if you buy a cheap ass computer, don't act surprised when it takes 10 minutes to load up
<mgdm> cheap ass-computer
<ali12341> yes
<ali12341> http://www.asscomputer.de/
<DJones> I've never had that problem, the Â£300 machines I use at work boot win 7 in under a minute, they're 4Gb Pentium R machines at 2.7Ghz
<MooDoo> my laptop is only 4gb 2.1 and that boots winows fine....windows 81 too
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<davmor2> bigcalm: how do
<davmor2> MooDoo: 'Ow do
<MooDoo> davmor2: ayup youth
<bigcalm> Howdy doody
<davmor2> MooDoo: Youth I'm only a year younger than you you owld coot
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm in a good mood mate so you get compliments, just for today like.
<davmor2> MooDoo: Hahaha did you get the day off work?
<MooDoo> davmor2: nope, 5 hours sleep and lots of coffee ;)
 * davmor2 pictures MooDoo shouting Minion Get ME COFFEE, and minion replying get it yourself 
<MooDoo> davmor2: seems to work when i sudo get me a coffee ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: haha :)
<jussi> so, jolla device will be out on 27th of this month
<popey> in finland only?
<jussi> yeah, in december elsewhere I think
<jussi> popey: https://twitter.com/JollaHQ
<awilkins> Snapchat guy should have taken the money and RUN, giggling like a schoolgirl on the way
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: then bought it back for $3 in a year or two
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Hah, yes. To me the whole thing feels like some guy who made an app because he realised that ladies were not as inclined to send gentlemen compromising pictures any more because of news events that underlined the inadvisability of doing so
<awilkins> Maybe even just as a jolly jape for the boys at Stanford
<MooDoo> lol i didn't realise 3 out of 5 people have claimed the pi and a pint :) awesome
<MartijnVdS> they just want to meet the legendary Alans
<MartijnVdS> (I'm on 2/3, afaik)
<AlanBell> MooDoo: yup, the third one was claimed today, by someone from Belgium!
<AlanBell> still 2 left though if you hurry :)
<MooDoo> hehe :)
<AlanBell> very very close to the halfway mark
<MooDoo> yes and 41 days left, very impressed
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah come on you lot... Â£17 to get to 50%...
<MartijnVdS> and how much for a pint?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Â£150 :-)
<MooDoo> 150
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: why don't you do another one, Â£200 all the stuff + a guest spot on the ubuntu uk podcast ;)
<MartijnVdS> that would be popey
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: isn't popey part of this initiative as well?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: sure, but you're asking TheOpenSourcerer, who isn't a podcast person :)
<MartijnVdS> well not a regular presenter, anyway
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I know i was thinking out loud :D
<popey> I'm not really part of it.
<popey> They just needed more Alans
<MooDoo> ah
<popey> I will happily help out if they need it though, of course.
<MartijnVdS> The Alan Singularity!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well, actually Alan needed moar Alans ;-)
<MartijnVdS> Alanis?
<mgdm> More Alans? Morissette Alanis? I can see how you got confused
<MartijnVdS> More Alans, is it?
<MooDoo> https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4653472512/h1FF39D6F/
<TheOpenSourcerer> One can never haz more Alan
<MartijnVdS> Ellen then?
<MooDoo> or helen?
<MartijnVdS> Alien?
<mgdm> Alanien
<MartijnVdS> though "Bell", "Lord" and "Pope" all have religious meanings
<MartijnVdS> and three -> holy trinity of Alans?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: we three kings of ubuntu-uk are....
<MooDoo> carrying pi's and clusters a far
<MooDoo> oooooo alan of wonder alan of might, alan a star that's shining so bright ;)
<MooDoo> ok i'll shut up now
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: this is almost turning into an Alan Davies introduction on QI 8-)
<MooDoo> well that's numberwang ;)
<MartijnVdS> let's rotate the board!
<TheOpenSourcerer> I used to work with a bloke called Tony King. When we arrived at hotels in foreign places we used to get some odd looks at times... "Lord" & "King" checking in please.
<daftykins> TheOpenSourcerer: did you ever carry his bags as recognition of his higher rank? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pah.
<TheOpenSourcerer> In many countries Lord trumps a king.
<daftykins> really 0o
<MooDoo> hehe you said trump
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: what "the" Lord or "a" lord?
<popey> hm, thought nexus 7 was supposed to get 4.4 yesterday?
<MartijnVdS> popey: they started rollout, I think.
<MartijnVdS> popey: when Google say that, you'll usually get it within a week or 2
<MartijnVdS> at least, on Nexus phones
<popey> blimey
<selinuxium> hello all    o/
<MartijnVdS> \o selinuxium
<MooDoo> selinuxium: afternoon
<MartijnVdS> \o/ new Doctor Who "prequel" "mini-episode"
 * MartijnVdS won't spoil
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: where you seend that?
<MartijnVdS> but it's on iplayer and youtube if you want to watch :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: what's it called?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Robert Webb's twitter :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: see pm :)
<MartijnVdS> https://twitter.com/arobertwebb/status/400985118971404289
 * popey has watched it twice already :D
 * MartijnVdS can't wait now :)
<MooDoo> ta will watch it later :)
<popey> its great â»
<popey> </spoilers>
<daftykins> can't believe the tablets get kitkat before the Nexus 4
<daftykins> :<
 * MartijnVdS strokes his Nexus 5
<daftykins> but anyway these updates are never even that worth it
<daftykins> they won't change anything for me
 * popey looks forward to ubuntu touch on a nexus 10 â»
<MooDoo> HOLY C**P MartijnVdS  :D
<popey> that new asus transformer looks interesting
<popey> pretty cheap device
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: hm>
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taJ_KPJnwmM
<daftykins> heh just ran crystaldiskinfo on this laptop i have in of someones
<davmor2> Yay isp technician has been I has interwebz again that doesn't knock me off every hour to get a new dhcp lease
<daftykins> it claims this 250GB HDD has performed 14TB of reads and 86 *PB* of writes
<popey> new router?
<popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/11/ubuntu-tablet-will-key-focus-ubuntu-14-04-lts-cycle
<popey> \o/
<MooDoo> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/11/ubuntu-tablet-will-key-focus-ubuntu-14-04-lts-cycle
<MooDoo> oops
<davmor2> popey: whole bunch of attenuation tests, signal test, new booster, power and noise tests, flash from the office and a new modem to be doubly sure
<popey> haha
<popey> so yeah, new modem â»
<davmor2> popey: basically  I get a 1 week lease time now
<davmor2> popey: I showed the bloke the issue and he went, well I've never seen that before hmmm
<ali1234> oh good, so the desktop will continue to be neglected through until 2016... great
<ali1234> just what i wanted to hear
<bashrc> the desktop is where it's at
<davmor2> ali1234: what are you on about.  The question that was ask was so the first LTS that will be unity 8 will be 2016
<ali1234> davmor2: i'm "on about" the lack of any focus at all on the desktop software you ship
<davmor2> ali1234: the unity 7 desktop will get some improvements and security fixes. Which is how it should be for an LTS
<ali1234> like the improvements it got in 13.10?
<ali1234> or 13.04?
<ali1234> oh wait, there weren't any
<ali1234> it's practically abandoned software at this point
<bashrc> abandonware
<bashrc> are there no non-Canonical Unity developers?
<diddledan> stick it on homeoftheunderdogs.net
<ali1234> bashrc: there aren't nearly enough to fix all the bugs
<AlanBell> bashrc: depends what you call a unity developer
<bashrc> someone who has enough knowledge of it to add features or fix bugs
<AlanBell> there are non-canonical people doing a few things like lenses or integrating with the Unity API
<AlanBell> doing core stuff, probably just Canonical folk
<bashrc> sounds like it has a high bus factors
<MartijnVdS> low*
<bashrc> maybe low
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: "The bus factor is the total number of key developers who would need to be incapacitated, for example, by getting hit by a bus/truck) to send the project into such disarray that it would not be able to proceed.", to quote Wikipedia :)
<bashrc> low then
<ali1234> that basically already happened when the compiz maintainer left
<ali1234> nobody else has a clue how that code works
<bashrc> eesh
<MartijnVdS> bus factor: 0
<MartijnVdS> now that's a podcast title 8-)
<bashrc> does that mean that Unity is effectively a dead project now?
<ali1234> unity 7 is, yes
<AlanBell> unity 7
<daftykins> says a lot about bus drivers
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: Old (current on desktop) unity, yes
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: dbus drivers?
<ali1234> unfortunately this dead project will be the default desktop for ubuntu until 2016
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and be supported until 2019!
<MartijnVdS> or is it 2017
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: you should have a drink with diddledan sometime - and record the convo
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Why? :)
<davmor2> ali1234: how will it be?  in 14.10 you get unity8 on the desktop
<bashrc> maybe I should become a Unity developer then :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: podcast titles/band names/etc.?
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: you two and your humour :P
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: apparently, we should make a sketch show.
<popey> davmor2: 2014 + 5 (lts)
<MartijnVdS> popey: except + 3 (desktop)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: do it do it
<ali1234> bashrc: unity 7 or unity 8?
<diddledan> :-)
<popey> 5
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: +5 on desktop too
<bashrc> I don't know the difference betwee 7 and 8
<diddledan> +1 on google
<diddledan> what are we +ing, anyway?
<ali1234> bashrc: unity 7 is what the desktop uses and unity 8 is what the phone and tablet uses
<popey> unity7 is a compiz plugin
<popey> unity8 is qml
<ali1234> bashrc: unity 7 is abandoned at this point and does not receive bug fixes (it does receive backported shiny new features however, which introduce even more bugs)
<diddledan> so unity 8 is a complete rewrite
<popey> not true ali1234
<bashrc> what's the current unity version?
<popey> 7
<popey> (on desktop, 8 on phone)
<diddledan> confusing much?
<bashrc> will 8 also be on the desktop?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> popey: can you name a bug in unity 7 which was fixed this cycle?
<diddledan> why couldn't we use 8 on both?
<popey> by 14.10 or 15.04
<davmor2> ali1234: unity7 is in maintenance  which means it gets bug fixes and security updates.
<popey> not off the top of my head because I don't work on that, but if forced to go and look for one, sure
<bashrc> so if I were to become a Unity develope I'd go for 8, rather than trying to revive the abandonware
<diddledan> I think unity7 should be renamed commander keen
<diddledan> that way we'd know it's abandoned :-p
<popey> bug 1153350
<lubotu3> bug 1153350 in Application Menu Indicator "LibreOffice4 Global Menu Items Do Not Highlight on Mouse Hover" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1153350
<popey> bug 1064155
<lubotu3> bug 1064155 in Unity 7.0 "[SRU Regression] Launcher and Global Menu are completely black after exiting fullscreen from certain apps" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064155
<popey> bug 1181367
<lubotu3> bug 1181367 in Unity 7.0 "Alt+Tab switches between incorrect windows after some time of activity" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1181367
<popey> bug 1074038
<diddledan> plus. commander keen was awesome
<lubotu3> bug 1074038 in Ubuntu Translations "Unity: Some untranslatable and wrong strings in the previews" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074038
<popey> etc
<popey> it's not "abandonware"
<diddledan> I'm just being silly, popey
<MartijnVdS> just "maintenance mode"-ware
<diddledan> "jumping on the band-wagon"
<AlanBell> Unity is quite a lot better in 13.10 than 13.04 long term it is a dead end, but it isn't dead yet
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's pining for the fjords
<AlanBell> nailed to the desktop
<ali1234> that last one was fixed by the same person who reported it :/
<daftykins> lol
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: an ex-desktop environment
<AlanBell> pushing up the pixels
<diddledan> ex = used to be, desk = lump of wood, top = close to bottom: used to be a wooden bum
<bashrc> it's not dead yet!
<diddledan> AlanBell: derezzing :-p
<diplo> My shared web host
<diplo> top - 15:20:19 up 42 days, 10:03,  6 users,  load average: 17.37, 12.23, 11.69
<diplo> !!!!!!!
<davmor2> ali1234: what does that have to do with anything?  I see devs report bugs all the time then latter on in the release have the time to fix them so do
<MartijnVdS> diplo: what's up with that?
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Up to 19 now, going to crash soon
<MartijnVdS> ah, load spike
<diplo> For 10 mins
<diplo> Sites are all down ( customers )
<MartijnVdS> ewps
<andyc> #ubuntu
<davmor2> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3100694470  yay reliable speed too woohoo!
<popey>  15:24:54 up 444 days, 16:05,  1 user,  load average: 0.16, 0.06, 0.01
<popey> â»
<popey>    %up              100.000 | since                     Sun Aug 26 23:19:02 2012
<popey> \o/100% uptime
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<diplo> Really need to sort out a dedicated server, i just need more time!
<MartijnVdS> diplo: get a vps :)
<diplo> yeah it's just making sure we can administer it properly. That's the benefit of other hosts
<diplo> They don't give me time
<bigcalm>    %up               99.987 | since                     Tue Feb 19 08:27:23 2013
<diplo> It's dropped to around 15 now :/
<diplo> Maybe more priority is needed on a new server host :)
 * daftykins pats BigV
<popey> https://www.ovh.co.uk/dedicated_servers/ are super cheap
<popey> and all sold out â»
<diplo> http://www.bigv.io/
<diplo> I was looking at the ones the Alans use with hetzner
<daftykins> i have one ^
<diplo> I'll look at both, it's getting ridiculous now with this host
<daftykins> Â£282.50 for the 32GB Nexus 5 if they were to remove VAT
<daftykins> at least us Channel Islanders can even *view* them this time
<Azelphur> I wish I could get it minus VAT :(
<daftykins> ;)
<Azelphur> there again, I could probably pay 1 bitcoin and get one.
<Azelphur> xD
<daftykins> they never did refund my Nexus 4's VAT
<daftykins> the support rep refused to continue with my emails eventually - after continually changing tack within the correspondance
<daftykins> it was clear they were making it up as they went along
<Azelphur> I thought you're supposed to claim vat back via the government ?
<daftykins> depends on the circumstance
<davmor2> If anyone hasn't seen it, now you see me is a cracking film with a nice little twist :)
<diddledan> davmor2: I thought it was awesome
<davmor2> diddledan: and the twist is funky as hell right :)
<diddledan> yup, I didn't see it coming
<TheOpenSourcerer> That ovh stuff does look cheap. Shame it's all sold out. Never seen that at Hetzner ;-)
<shauno> I still don't get the VAT stuff.  don't you pay that at point of purchase?  eg, if I order stuff from the UK, I pay the UK's VAT on it
<daftykins> shauno: nah all decent etailers deduct it at point of sale
<daftykins> however some are really terrible at it, for example ebuyer.com i have to pay the VAT first, then ask for a refund afterwards
<shauno> is it just for the UK? how does that work with the rest of the EU?
<penguin42> shauno: I've seen signs on shops near touristy sites saying they can pay without vat
 * penguin42 doesn't know how you prove you're not local
<daftykins> well i'm not in the EU
<shauno> ah
<daftykins> presumably if you're travelling you have a passport on you
<penguin42> true
<daftykins> kinda funny seeing the French off the cruise ships all asking to pay in Euros in my local shops
<daftykins> i didn't even know they could
<penguin42> daftykins: do you need a passport?
<daftykins> not to get to England
<shauno> that's always been the case penguin42, they've just made schemes to streamline it now. otherwise they can claim tax back (with a fist-full of receipts) at the airport
<daftykins> there's supposed to be a customs desk in Gatwick where you can submit a refund request, as a client of mine often buys electronics from Dixons travel in the departure bit, then goes to request the refund immediately :D
<shauno> doesn't do much for us because we're EU, we're stil liable for VAT.  more for americans & such
<diddledan> I've always had to pay vat on purchases from europe
<shauno> but I didn't realise the islands weren't in the EU .. that's what confuses everything
<diddledan> I don't get the channel island tax haven bit - you import from us to channel is. and don't pay import tax. then you import from channel is. to britain and still don't pay import tax because it's from britain
<shauno> so far I've found it easier to just believe them when they tell me they're "a bit different"
<diddledan> and then if you accept that you don't pay tax at all on imports through the channel islands, wth isn't _EVERYTHING_ imported through them?
<diplo> popey: Do you know anyone who has used OVH?
<shauno> probably because companies big enough to start worrying about fudging such things, have 100 easier loopholes to play with
<popey> diplo: no
<daftykins> thing is they all left since Low Value Consignment Relief got canned by the British gov. (LVCR)
<daftykins> HMV gutted their warehouse
<daftykins> 7dayshop as well i believe
<AlanBell> shauno: just small companies like tesco
<diplo> OK ta
<shauno> well, I mean why bother bouncing physical goods around when you can just route the funds instead
<shauno> most of it just boggles my mind though.  finances at that scale always sound like they were written by Douglas Adams
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> I mean, on paper I don't actually work for the same company as my boss
<daftykins> seems legit
<popey> same here â»
<penguin42> daftykins: So what's left there other than cows?
<daftykins> err
<daftykins> lots of finance, lots of pubs
<daftykins> lots of beaches and sea :D
<shauno> I was transferred to the parent company a couple of years back.  so now I work for a french company, and he works for the irish arm of an american subsidiary
<daftykins> hehe
<penguin42> daftykins: And what do you do with a bunch of large empty warehouses - sounds like an opportunity for *something*
<davmor2> penguin42: you fill them with rocket launchers and take over the world muhahahahahaha......or something like that :)
<daftykins> actually the one that HMV pulled out of was our old post office, the local gov. guy behind commerce is recommending turning it into a technology startups place
<penguin42> are their local tech startups ?
<daftykins> don't think so XD
<daftykins> he may've said just small business come to think of it
<daftykins> i didn't pay too much attention
<penguin42> too pricey for them I guess - except maybe as spinouts from finance companies
<daftykins> the guy used to be a radio DJ Â¬_Â¬
<penguin42> riiiight
<daftykins> just applied for my appointment to request whether i'm allowed to insulate my house!
<daftykins> woop woop
<penguin42> inside or out?
<daftykins> inside the roof
<penguin42> wth would you need to ask to do that?
<daftykins> my property is a 17th century fully listed townhouse :)
<daftykins> it's part of the island's heritage \o/
<penguin42> ah
<daftykins> also most of my windows are a couple of mm thick glass in wooden frames
<daftykins> the windows don't even close flush in the frame so my place is very cold in winter
<daftykins> i need to spend a fair bit to beef things up
<diddledan> and now I've done that job I'm going to get told that a service has gone critical :-/ GLSA (security) alerting - I know the server is way out of date, but I've only just put the notifier on there
<daftykins> some geek porn for you, gentlemen
<daftykins> from the dafty in dust bunny horror archives
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bbma398znt8hl7x/IMG_20131114_174809.jpg
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ugyz886qmrs8m95/IMG_20131114_174831.jpg
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/co5li9btogk00gs/IMG_20131114_175752.jpg
<popey> heh
<diddledan> oh my, it's furry
<daftykins> =]
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> can't even take the fan shroud out =/
<daftykins> quick toothbrush application to the heatsink made it all perfect, they're always in this state i find - peoples laptops
<daftykins> thermal paste is not even on the flat of the processor die >_<
<daftykins> 2GHz Pentium DC ;)
<daftykins> i haven't even touched the thermal paste, as i was told not to spend too much time on this one - temps have gone from 40-60 idling to 28-30 deg C
<daftykins> :>
<MartijnVdS> nice
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: much better than my uncle's milk machine controlling P3 :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> 80 deg under load from prime95 though
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: one of its heat sink retainers had broken off
<daftykins> that'll be the poor thermal paste
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: so its thermal paste went away.. and the CPU burned
<daftykins> aww
<MartijnVdS> It was still running *DOS* (the one that comes with Win98) to control the milking machine/feeding machine over a serial cable
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> a nice reliable PIII sounds ideal
<MartijnVdS> he had another he'd almost never used
<MartijnVdS> just cleaned out the dust and *purr*
<MartijnVdS> I dd'ed the hard disk contents over, because old hard disk = scary
<daftykins> *nod* :)
<diddledan> old hard disc = decorations
<diddledan> :-D
<daftykins> supplies of shiny mirrors and magnets alone ;)
<MartijnVdS> shiny magnets!
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> now to convince the people in question to pick new hard disks for these two systems
<daftykins> will they go mechanical? hybrid? SSD? ;)
<MartijnVdS> PATA SSDs?
<daftykins> nah both systems are SATA
<daftykins> one is an i3 samsung, this Dell is a Pentium DC
<MartijnVdS> http://sugru.com/blog/4-for-3-christmas-offer-on-all-sugru-packs
<MartijnVdS> ^ in case anyone needs some
 * daftykins wonders what they are
<GentileBen> Japanese sugar?
<DJones> Yay, finally found out what was using all my space on the server, stupid backup backing up to the wrong partition
<MartijnVdS> DJones: ouch
<daftykins> doh!
<DJones> Yep, DOH!
<MartijnVdS> ooh, The Science of Doctor Who will be followed by the (few years old now) Doctor Who edition of NMtB
<diddledan> nmtp. now my toes burst?
<shauno> never mind the buzzcocks?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ding!
<diddledan> aah
<shauno> and we don't even live there!  come on dan!
<diddledan> I'd have put a C on for the bit beginning with c
<diddledan> I'm bound to get into trouble for saying it standalone
<shauno> next step in my SD card saga, it seems the problem is my mac, not the cards, surprisingly.  work laptop is writing to them at over 8MB/s
<penguin42> shauno: Which mac - running Mac OS?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: SHA256 8-)
<shauno> 2011 mbp running current 10.9
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: HMAC-
<shauno> writing the same image to the same card, xp on my work laptop took 7-8 minutes, my mac took about 100
<MartijnVdS> sequentially or random-access?
<shauno> sequentially, this is still my dd woes :)
<penguin42> ok, so you've tried two completely different machines with two completely different OSs
<penguin42> shauno: Boot an Ubuntu live image on the Mac and see if that can write the SD sanely?
<shauno> I've yet to find an ubuntu image that'll boot sensibly on this :/
<ali1234> i wouldn't bet on ubuntu actually working either
<ali1234> dd to usb has some real bad problems on linux
<penguin42> shauno: OK, try fedora - they have a multiboot thing which I know has some magic for Macs
<shauno> downloading that now
<davmor2> shauno: what is it you are trying to do?
<shauno> originally, I was trying to write a disk image to an sd card that another machine boots off.  that's working, now I'm just trying to figure out why my laptop writes to SD *significantly* slower than anything else
<roht> buona sera
<shauno> eg, my amiga writes to it at 1.6MB/sec.  my laptop gets about 0.6MB/sec
<roht> come faccio a riportare in lingua italiana ubuntu 13.10 che ho installato in inglese?
<davmor2> shauno: it hates you :)
<AlanBell> !it
<lubotu3> Vai su #ubuntu-it se vuoi parlare in italiano, in questo canale usiamo solo l'inglese. Grazie! (per entrare, scrivi Â« /join #ubuntu-it Â» senza virgolette)
<roht> sorry
<roht> have done a mistake
<ali1234> shauno: what you doing anyway?
<ali1234> you might find this useful: https://github.com/ali1234/wbrecovery
<ali1234> or this: https://github.com/ali1234/pyadt
<shauno> just smuggling drivers onto my amiga.  read the image off the card, open it in an emulator, copy things in/out as needed, and then write it back again
<penguin42> shauno: Sorry, did you just say you'd try writing an SD card with your amiga?!
<shauno> penguin42: yes, the card lives in an SD->IDE adaptor, and functions as the harddrive for my amiga :)
<ali1234> pyadt probably would be useful for you. you can download anything from aminet, just needs a getty on the serial port
<shauno> yeah, ppp.device and amitcp are some of the things I'm trying to copy across
<ali1234> i wouldn't bother, it's a pain
<shauno> since this is obviously a less-than-ideal workflow
<ali1234> just use sz and ncomm
<penguin42> shauno: Oh well, easy - just wire it to an IDE-USB bridge and write it from something else :-)
<shauno> well, once I get compactflash.device and fat95 installed, I won't need to do this dance, I can just use the pcmcia slot
<shauno> it has removable storage, just no drivers for it
<ali1234> also this: https://github.com/ali1234/avr-amiga-controller
<davmor2> shauno: does mac have a tool like file roller that might extract an iso/image file if so what happen if you just use real mac tools to extract to the sd card
<ali1234> lets you control the amiga using synergy but needs special hardware
<ali1234> (ie an arduino or similar)
<ali1234> davmor2: it's amiga fast file system. i doubt it was ported to mac
<ali1234> ubuntu can read it... kind of... but not properly
<shauno> if I understood him correctly, he's actually got a good point; writing to the card with something other than dd
<davmor2> shauno: Yeap basically try a dedicated mac tool and see if it is some restriction on hardware for using non mac shiny stuff
<ali1234> should've got a CF card instead...
<diddledan> shauno: you're using /dev/rdiskx, right?
<diddledan> rather than /dev/diskx
<shauno> tried both with no noticable difference
<diddledan> weird
<diddledan> usually rdisk is much faster than disk
<shauno> hm, disk utility will rip an image off significantly faster than dd has, but won't write it back because it wants to 'validate' it first
<penguin42> shauno: And you're using a decent blocksize now to dd?
<shauno> yeah, 4m seems to the fastest
<shauno> been toying with that one too.  it gets faster & faster as they get larger, but when I go past 4m it gets significantly slower.  so I assume that's somewhere close to what the card's using internally
<diddledan> shauno: you could try with a binary number like 4194304
<diddledan> I donno whether that's the same as 4m or not
<ali1234> on linux 4m and 4M are different
<diddledan> ali1234: that's what I thought
<ali1234> one of them is power-of-two
<ali1234> i don't remember which
<diddledan> upper case M is the power of two iirc
<directhex> depends on the app
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> i think this was truncate
<diddledan> directhex: dd
<directhex> df uses "M" for ^2 and MB for ^10
 * penguin42 notes it's hopelessly inconsistent so I wouldn't bet on what any one program does
<directhex> dd does the same
<directhex>        N and BYTES may be followed by the following multiplicative suffixes: c =1, w =2, b =512, kB =1000, K =1024, MB =1000*1000, M =1024*1024, xM =M GB =1000*1000*1000,
<directhex>        G =1024*1024*1024, and so on for T, P, E, Z, Y.
<shauno> bsd's does that differently; If the number ends with a ``b'', ``k'', ``m'', ``g'', or ``w'', the number is multiplied by  512, 1024 (1K), 1048576 (1M), 1073741824 (1G) or the number of bytes in an integer, respectively
<diddledan> looks like bsd dd is weird as usual
<shauno> it doesn't accept M, even though the manual uses M to describe what m does
<shauno> although specifying blocksizes in millibytes would explain a lot
<diddledan> shauno: what about using a different method - cat file.img > /dev/disk56s2 ?
<diddledan> rdisk**
<diddledan> meh
<directhex> only kibinibbles makes sense
<diddledan> I want to know what a milibit is
<shauno> kibinibbles sound edible :D
<diddledan> the number of people I see talking about their mb (milibit)
<ali1234> fractions of a bit only mak sense in terms of number theory
<diddledan> ali1234: exactly my point
<ali1234> for example "how many bits does it take to represent a number between 0 and 5 inclusive?"
<diddledan> "I've got a 50 mb internet connexion! OMGZORS" (milibit)
<ali1234> yes i suppose that could make sense too
<shauno> hm, writing this fedora iso to usb is also going entertaingly slow (13,284 bytes/sec).  I wonder if 10.9 has done something silly to dd
<directhex> shauno, what block size did you specify?
<shauno> 4 just because I'd been using it before
<directhex> 4M?
<shauno> right
<shauno> interesting.  cat took 1min42 for a 950Mb ISO
<ali1234> do you have gnudd?
<ali1234> i know you have gnutar (still an old version, but less braindead than the OS X tar)
<shauno> And fedora boots a whole lot more convincingly. That's handy to know :)
<diddledan> I've never had a problem booting ubuntu on any of my macs
<mgdm> I remember running the very first Ubuntu on an iBook G4 back in ~2004ish
<shauno> It's fine if you have internal optical. If you have to use USB, you have to use efi; and then you're in for a world of pain
<mgdm> or 2005
<diddledan> again, I've always done EFI
<shauno> eg, when booted with efi mine sees my gpu, and uses it. But doesn't do the gpu switching stuff, so doesn't switch the screen to use the gpu
<diddledan> aah, I don't have one of those fancy switchables
<shauno> Result is that the last thing you'll see during boot is the kernel saying it's using the. Radeonfb driver.
<shauno> If you use bios-emulation, gpu switching isn't available so this doesn't come up
<shauno> I spent a while trying to blacklist the Radeon drivers, force it to use efifb, etc. gave up in the end
<shauno> This is spewing kernel errors writing to sd
<shauno> Timed out sending r/w command, dma: out of space for 65535 bytes at device ..
<daubers> evening
<shauno> ah well, that's enough OT for tonight.  I have some ideas to play with now, thanks
<shauno> think I'll take a break and see what other crazy things live in ali1234's github ;)
<mgdm> 'lo daubers
 * mgdm finds the monitor he has had for 3 years has audio out, for use with HDMI...
<mgdm> need to find my speakers now
<Myrtti> BBC2 now btw
<Azelphur> I have officially managed to escape a 2 year contract with talktalk with no exit fee, woo \o/
<Myrtti> where to?
<Azelphur> Myrtti: Entanet in theory, hopefully greener pastures :)
<Azelphur> managed to get out on the basis they were in breach of contract as they physically disconnected my phone line...twice
<Azelphur> (amongst tonnes of other terrible)
<penguin42> Azelphur: Celebrate when you get the MAC code and it all hands over properly?
<Azelphur> penguin42: good point :)
<shauno> digging around looking for a floppy drive, just found the shipit disks for 6.06 :)
<Myrtti> good stuff
 * penguin42 passes shauno a 5.25"
<shauno> the drawer of stuff appears to contain everything but the cable.  bother.
<diddledan> dammit, it's 2200 already
<penguin42> no it's not
<penguin42> now it is
<daftykins> aah, picked up 2 x 500GB HDDs to fix these two laptops i have in for Â£33 each
<daftykins> i did think about hybrid/SSD but the clients in question would rather save money as these laptops aren't even their main ones anymore
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-15
<penguin42> I don't suppose anyone has a use for a quad port PCI-X gige card do they - I seem to have bought two off ebay and found they won't actually fit any of my machines (hint: not all PCI-X cards can go into PCI slots)
<daftykins> do they not have the gap to fit in 32-bit slots, or?
<penguin42> daftykins: They do! But the cards are 3.3v only, and the PCI slots are keyed for 5v only; apparently some PCI-X cards can be dual
<daftykins> ah :(
<penguin42> daftykins: Exactly
<penguin42> daftykins: I've actually got one machine with PCI-X - but it's 5v only (early PCI-x machine)
<directhex> moop
<directhex> i had a PCI-X system once
<directhex> my mythtv box
<daftykins> i had a dual PIII setup
<daftykins> but in my brothers hands its' one PATA channel died
<daftykins> so i gave up on it - didn't fancy acquiring any SCSI
<penguin42> hmm, it's an interesting thought - I wonder whether my old dual Athlon board had PCI-X
<directhex> penguin42, probably
<directhex> today has been productive for my free software work
<daftykins> directhex: oh?
<directhex> daftykins, https://buildd.debian.org/status/logs.php?pkg=mono&arch=mipsel - i am currently building 3.2.3+dfsg-3 for upload, which will have a successful mipsel build
<penguin42> damn, according to the online manual my dual athlon board is also 5v
<penguin42> what mipsel stuff do you run?
<directhex> penguin42, none, but i want as much arch coverage as possible in debian
<MooDoo> morning all
<directhex> would a blog post about why it took 10 years for mono to build on debian mips be interesting? worth doing?
<MooDoo> directhex: even if it's not of interest to most, it's an historical record so I think worth doing :)
<MartijnVdS> Theee Historical Documents!
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> wooohooo think it's time to download all lur radio episodes and give them a listen
<MartijnVdS> aah, nostalgia  :)
<MooDoo> yeah I blame jono :D
<MartijnVdS> what is the name of that simple benchmark again? the "count to $a_lot" one?
<MartijnVdS> This is the one! http://hants.lug.org.uk/wiki/HugoRandomBenchmark
<popey> â»
<MartijnVdS> real	0m2.815s
<MartijnVdS> user	0m2.771s
<MartijnVdS> sys	0m0.000s
<MartijnVdS> (i7-4770K @ 4GHz)
<popey> golly
<MartijnVdS> *zoom*
<MartijnVdS> oh wow.. Pentium IIs took >2 minutes to finish that test
<popey> we should move that to some wiki that is actually editable
<popey> the hants lug website is broken
 * AlanBell tries it on a pi
<AlanBell> real    2m21.130s
<AlanBell> user    1m30.890s
<MartijnVdS> so it's like a Pentium II
<AlanBell> yeah, strapped to a big GPU
<MartijnVdS> but GPUs usually don't run perl
<ali1234> my AMD system is over twice as fast as the fastest AMD system on that page
<ali1234> i think this benchmark s not very accurate
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: or recent
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: the newest Intel chip on there is 2.5 years old
<ali1234> so is my AMD
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it must be cheating on the benchmark
<directhex> http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/545/
<popey> directhex: once a buildd picks it up, how long will it take to actually build?
<directhex> popey, i have no idea - it's never been successfully built, so i have no basis for comparison :p
<directhex> popey, i estimate around 6 hours
<awilkins> What do people use Mono for on MIPS? (or for anything, for that matter, besides games which I see from time to time)
<directhex> on mips... well, nothing... yet
<popey> heh
<directhex> i believe the upstream port exists due to android mips
<awilkins> Part of me asking is that my team is probably going to get merged with a MS / .NET team and it would be interesting to work out the arguments for keeping our Linux servers (oh, yeah, MIPS no compiley, duh)
<directhex> well, the upstream port *is maintained* due to it
<directhex> what is it used for generally... desktop apps. games. daemons. same stuff as you use java or python for, really
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<SuperMatt> morning
<popey> hello
<bigcalm> Good evening and welcome
<SuperMatt> I'm not sure it's evening
<SuperMatt> I could be wrong
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy PlayStation 4 Release Day! :-D
<SuperMatt> Today I have time off work, and I'm going to use it to finish writing my wiki (wiki.supermatt.net, all done in python/flask), and go see gravity
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<Laney> JamesTait: why would you say that in ubuntu-uk :(
<JamesTait> Laney, only because I couldn't stand the alternative - Clean Your Fridge Day. :-/
<awilkins> Naah, the big gaming news today is the release of X-Rebirth
<awilkins> Playstation 4 is just Christmas toy news.
<SuperMatt> I'm very interested in x-rebirth
<SuperMatt> my boss has bought it, so I'm going to see how it looks next week
<Myrtti> good morning
<Myrtti> since it's Friday
<Myrtti> here's a kitty video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTZnutpgOkU
<MooDoo> lol I as expecting some monster to appear.
<bigcalm> Kittah!
<MooDoo> glad it's the weekend tomorrow, had enough already today lol
<bigcalm> Kissa!
<bigcalm> Maybe even a kuukissa
<bigcalm> Here endith my knowledge of Finnish
<mungbean> moy
<mungbean> skol
<mungbean> ubuntu stickers in the wild.. http://ubuntuone.com/4fPqWD7ClyQcIkZusigbYg
<ali1234> !info gtk-theme-config
<lubotu3> Package gtk-theme-config does not exist in quantal
<ali1234> !info gtk-theme-config saucy
<lubotu3> gtk-theme-config (source: gtk-theme-config): simple interface to change GTK+ themes. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0-1 (saucy), package size 22 kB, installed size 124 kB
<popey> wow thats an old sticker
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc> morning
<davmor2> popey: you shouldn't talk about Elderly with walking sticks like that, it's not respectful ;)
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<diplo> SuperMatt: Saw Gravity last night, was quite good :)
<SuperMatt> awesome
<SuperMatt> I'm looking forward to seeing it at the imax today
<SuperMatt> between fielding calls from recruiters
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: getting a lot of job requests?
<SuperMatt> I might be
<SuperMatt> facebook turned me down :(
 * SuperMatt looks at canonical next
<MooDoo> how come?
<davmor2> SuperMatt: well if you will sign up for these things :)
<SuperMatt> I was quite experienced enough
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: i'm always on the look out for canonical stuff :)
<popey> SuperMatt: https://tbe.taleo.net/CH03/ats/careers/searchResults.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&act=sort&sortColumn=2&sortColumn=0
<popey> any that take your fancy?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: For some reason davmor2 doesn't need a tea boy :)
<popey> why would the tea boy need a tea boy?
<SuperMatt> data centre engineer might be up my street
<MooDoo> popey: you mean davmor2 isn't the big boss?  he lies ;)
<SuperMatt> ooh, systems administrator
<davmor2> MooDoo: I did say I could do with a foot masseuse but you turned that down
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah felt i was under qualified for that one.
<davmor2> popey: I don't know, I have my Dolce Gusto beside me for the cappuccinos /me doesn't even drink tea :D
<SuperMatt> popey: there are two there which might be relevant
<SuperMatt> thanks ;)
<SuperMatt> ig waut
<SuperMatt> *oh wait
<SuperMatt> one is based in beijing
<SuperMatt> so only one then
<davmor2> SuperMatt: not looking to move to Beijing then?
<diplo> I'm just writing my CV for a datacentre job SuperMatt, looks really interesting
<davmor2> http://ubuntuone.com/4kkdkUIEuq6mbTkIiOAmTd  I have an awesome wife :)
<AlanBell> davmor2: Could not access backend storage
<davmor2> AlanBell: works here
<bigcalm> Could not access backend storage
<davmor2> AlanBell: maybe it hadn't finished setting up the sync as it's a video
<JamesTait> davmor2, you've been out-breaker'd.
<davmor2> JamesTait: I blame you anyway it's U1
<JamesTait> davmor2, I blame the tester equally. :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: Right I'll get onto vila and elopio immediately :P
<JamesTait> :D
<jussi> ooh, tea, what a great idea :D
<MooDoo> not working here either davmor2
<MooDoo> davmor2: sack your tester ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: we already been through that one :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: rats
<mungbean> what are income taxes like in norway?
<Laney> exquisite
<davmor2> AlanBell: http://ubuntuone.com/4kkdkUIEuq6mbTkIiOAmTd can you get it now ?
<bastubis> anyone know what's happened to u1sdtool in 13.10? doesn't seem to be in the repos?
<AlanBell> davmor2: yeah, that is doing something
<AlanBell> !info u1sdtool
<lubotu3> Package u1sdtool does not exist in quantal
<AlanBell> quantal!
<davmor2> AlanBell: I tarballed the video :)
<bastubis> yeah I noticed that - so how do you fix buggy crashy U1 then?
<mungbean> i still get "a file is no longer published" when i try to publish to u1
<AlanBell> it is in a different package I think, on sec
<davmor2> bastubis: it's in the install
<bastubis> huh?
<davmor2> bastubis: I typed u1s and hit tab
<AlanBell> !info ubuntuone-client raring
<lubotu3> ubuntuone-client (source: ubuntuone-client): Ubuntu One client. In component main, is optional. Version 4.2.0-0ubuntu1 (raring), package size 11 kB, installed size 156 kB
<AlanBell> bastubis: ubuntuone-client provides it
<bastubis> so I should just download the tarball and install it with dpkg?
<bastubis> really? where?
<AlanBell> no, it is in the package
<bastubis> how do I launch it?
<ali1234> why is the bot returning package results from quantal?
<davmor2> bastubis: open the terminal and type u1s and hit tab
<bastubis> ahhh ok it's preinstalled
 * bastubis has found the manual
<bastubis> ta!
<bashrc> click packages - is there any progress on that?
<AlanBell> bashrc: yeah, they work on the phone
<bashrc> what's the format for them?
<AlanBell> bashrc: http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/apps/packaging-click-apps/
<AlanBell> roughly speaking, as I understand it, they are a cut down .deb format with added apparmor
<davmor2> bashrc: click is the format ;)  But AlanBell 's link is better.
<AlanBell> and they are designed to work with a read-only root filesystem
<AlanBell> what is a mildly sensible file format for some preference variables that I will need to read from bash and python?
<bashrc> I wasn't thinking of the web interface.  If I wanted to create a click package, supposing that I have a binary and I know some dependencies, could I make a script or something) which builds the package?
<popey> click build ./foo
<ali1234> it doesn't really make sense to call click a cut down .deb - .deb is just two tar files joined together it doesn't get much simpler than that
<popey> where ./foo contains your application
<AlanBell> ali1234: it doesn't have scripts
<popey> you can look at it from either end
<popey> bashrc: click packages have no concept of dependencies
<popey> well, they have a simple one.. you depend on the sdk revision, which assumes some dependencies
<popey> so an app could be written for ubuntu-14.04 and wouldn't be installable on ubuntu-13.10 for example
<davmor2> Lets try this again google plus just caught up with u1 :) https://plus.google.com/u/1/104244164525559506101/posts/dVcyXFQCMwJ  I have an awesome wife
<bashrc> I'm still no wiser about the format of click packages
<ali1234> so basically a click package is just an archive with some files in it
<bashrc> ok, like a deb
<ali1234> no, not like a deb
<ali1234> a deb has dependencies a pre/post-install scripts
<ali1234> it's more like a tar.gz
<davmor2> ali1234: Did you not just point out that a deb is a couple of tarballs?  In that case it's like a deb then right :D
<popey> it's an ar file containing a data.tgz and a control.tgz
<popey> bashrc: but you just use "click build ./foo" to build it
<ali1234> click: error: directory "./foo" does not contain manifest file "manifest.json"
<AlanBell> bashrc: more infos https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-May/037074.html
<popey> yeah, there's some documented bits you need
<AlanBell> not massively well documented
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ApplicationConfinement/Manifest
<AlanBell> ah
<AlanBell> !info bash
<lubotu3> bash (source: bash): GNU Bourne Again SHell. In component main, is required. Version 4.2-5ubuntu3 (saucy), package size 603 kB, installed size 1388 kB
<AlanBell> ^^ ali1234
<davmor2> bashrc: this might be a better example of how to manual build a click package rather than the sdk way. http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/webapp/packaging-web-apps/
<ali1234> fixed?
<SuperMatt> what's a good way to get in contact with Jorge Castro?
<davmor2> SuperMatt: irc
<SuperMatt> any channel?
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: jcastro on IRC, normally in #ubuntu-community-team and other places
<SuperMatt> cool, thanks
<popey> SuperMatt: lurk in #ubuntu-community-team or email him https://launchpad.net/~jorge
<bashrc> davmor2: that's a much better description
<ali1234> so how do i make a manifest file for a new click package?
<popey> see http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/webapp/packaging-web-apps/ and http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/apps/security-policy-for-click-packages/
<popey> if there's bits missing or unclear, let me know and we can get it fixed
<davmor2> bashrc: it is only effectively a desktop file and a manifest and a permissions file as it is a webapp but it gives you a good idea.
<ali1234> it would be nice if it wasn't necessary to keep the manifest.json in the same directory as all the files
<ali1234> i don't want it in the .zip or .tar.gz or .deb versions
<popey> you can
<popey> you can put the manifest file somewhere else, and specify click build -m PATH ./foo
<ali1234> can i make a click package with no dependency?
<popey> not tried that
<ali1234> I get "Framework "ubuntu-sdk-13.10" not present on system (use --force-missing-framework option to override)" when i try to install it
<popey> probably
<popey> yes
<popey> we don't currently support click package installs on desktop
<popey> it's for phone/tablet at the moment
<popey> but you can do as it says and --force-missing-framework
<popey> and see if it works, and you get to keep the pieces if it doesn't
<ali1234> click: error: no such option: --force-missing-framework
<popey> during install?
<ali1234> no, during package build
<popey> not during build
<popey> no, you specify during install
<ali1234> that's not much use
<ali1234> i want to make a click package that doesn't depend on any framework
<bashrc> I was really getting ahead of myself.  Probably I'll only really be interested in implementing click packages once that system is available on the desktop
<popey> oh, sorry, you're building a click package?
<ali1234> yes
<popey> I haven't used that parameter when building
<ali1234> also -m path doesn't work
<popey> this topic should be discussed in #ubuntu-touch where the devs are btw â»
<popey> or indeed #ubuntu-app-devel
<ali1234> manifest.json is in current directory. click build -m manifest.json foo/ -> "click: error: directory "foo/" does not contain manifest file "manifest.json""
<popey> looks like a bug
<ali1234> hmm wait
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/click/+bugs
<ali1234> click build -m . foo/ -> works, kind of (actually it crashes)
<ali1234> reported
<popey> thanks
<ali1234> click needs a framework that defined only glibc, x11, and alsa
<davmor2> ali1234: why would it define x11, it's built to build against mir
<ali1234> davmor2: uh, because my app requires x11
<ali1234> and glibc, x11, alsa is the minimum you can expect to find on any linux distribution
<ali1234> this would make click packages actually cross platform
<ali1234> though i can understand why you wouldn't want that to happen
<davmor2> ali1234: are you just missing the point of mir and wayland in that x goes away at which point why would you target x11 again?  Don't forget this is a future package that just happens to be available currently on Phones and tablets because they have all the confined elements
<davmor2> as for alsa I think you just add audio iirc
<ali1234> you can't "just add audio"
<ali1234> and X11 is not going away any time soon
<popey> indeed, next LTS will ship with X11.
<ali1234> currently with click you make make up any framework name you want
<ali1234> however the only ones that anyone will ever actually have is the ubuntu-sdk ones
<popey> not sure when click is planned to be in desktop
<ali1234> i set framework to "none-require-please-force-install"
<ali1234> this is a fairly poor workaround
<popey> yeah, you're using click packages outside the current use cases. it's not been worked on for desktop use cases yet
<davmor2> ali1234: this is my point, click is designed to run on mir with unity8 inside appamour confinement, That is not currently available on the desktop until it is you won't have click by default and it would work as expected until those parts are meet
<ali1234> yeah here's the problem with that: i will not support mir in my app
<ali1234> so either you make a framework for x11 apps, or my app doesn't go in a click package
<ali1234> i don't see why you have such a hard time understanding this
<directhex> popey, 12.04 is x11?
<directhex> er, 14.04
<davmor2> ali1234: bingo so you package it as a deb the end
<ali1234> no, i will not package it as a deb either
<ali1234> i will ship it as a tar.gz, the way all linux game developers currently do anyway
<ali1234> the tgz will contain all the dependencies, and they'll be built against x11, again exactly like all linux games currently are
<popey> directhex: yup
<directhex> popey, thank fuck. that simplifies my deployments no end
<popey> ali1234: out of interest, what framework do you use? sdl?
<ali1234> i use ogre3d
<popey> ah yes
<ali1234> i use SDL for input and sound
<ali1234> but SDL2, because SDL1 is horrible
<ali1234> "click list" is broken btw
<popey> on desktop?
<ali1234> yes
<popey> yeah, as I said, out of scope
<Laney> argh
<Laney> distressing snapping / pinging sound when I leaned a bit on $brokenchair just now
 * Laney bumps the urgency of acquiring a replacement
<davmor2> Laney: I can recommend the Markus from ikea
<Laney> just called to have this one taken away
<Laney> so there is a deadline of next thursday by which I need to have replaced it :P
 * awilkins seconds the Markus
<Laney> cheers for the recommendation
<awilkins> Mesh back, leather seat cover, floating pivot
<awilkins> Good price for what it is
<davmor2> awilkins: and don't forget the padded lower back support too :)
<awilkins> The chair I have in the office is probably nicer, but it also probably cost a bazillion quid because Government Procurement + Trained Ergonomic Person to help set it up
<awilkins> Has an inflatable padded lower back support for super-awesome controllability
<davmor2> awilkins: that just takes the p
 * popey needs to fix his aeron
<awilkins> davmor2, I know, could probably have got a much nicer one if I'd just expensed it / was allowed to
<awilkins> Shoot all the damn lawyers and return to a common-sense system
<davmor2> awilkins: why did you not just get a lazyboy 9000 and be done :D
<awilkins> davmor2, I'm not sure it would actually be a good coding chair
<awilkins> Some kind of reclining workstation with the screen built in would be good
<davmor2> awilkins: only cause the bosses would see you alseep on the job ;)
<awilkins> There was some news about VRDs that sounded positive
<awilkins> The main concern I have with an Oculus is the weight - a VRD rig will be lighter
<awilkins> Wonder how useful they'll be for programming / workstation purposes
<davmor2> awilkins: VRDs just makes it sound like something you would catch and not talk about except to a Doctor
<awilkins> And the plus side to a head mounted display is noone can shoulder surf you..
<shauno> mmmm ergonomics  http://i.imgur.com/3Gr4mr8.jpg
<davmor2> awilkins: you have a head mounted to your display I'm not surprised any one want to shoulder surf you :D
<awilkins> If I could actually repel certain users with a shrunken head talisman I might consider getting one
<DJones> shauno: That looks like it would be really uncomfortable
<shauno> not mine thankfully, just the first la-z-boy shot I found that didn't look like it should be burnt by guys in yellow rubber suits
<DJones> :)
<awilkins> A 135 degree angle is optimal for your health though :-)
<awilkins> Relieves disc pressure
<DJones> I'm either at a desk in an upright position using a desktop, or my laptop is on the arm of a reclining sofa while I recline
<popey> \o/ aeron working
<DJones> awilkins: I think the reclining would give me the 135 degree angle
<popey> MartijnVdS: https://twitter.com/amx109/status/401331105757794305
<shauno> we had one of those ergonomics voodoo chaps visit at work.  they seemed me worried about the stuff all over my desk, than the chair
<awilkins> Really, I could totally go for the Matrix style pink goo floatation pod once they get the technical details sorted
<ali1234> shauno: have you seen that battlestation hidden inside a wardrobe photo?
<shauno> I've seen all manner of sins on /r/battlestations
<ali1234> this one is the worst
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24939133 wat
<popey> hah http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/actress-in-andy-kaufman-hoax-675432
<popey> Myrtti: https://twitter.com/Geeky_Knit/
<Myrtti> cool, but that's twitter. I go there once in a blue moon nowadays
<mgdm> My gf is currently learning crochet and knitting, so I've commissioned her to make a Marvin along the lines of the one from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QIk_qWLx2s
<popey> hah
<mgdm> Oh, that's in French. My point stands though
<MooDoo> davmor2: you have a nice wofe :)
<mbs_> Anyone else having a problem with firefox today? i did an upgrade and now firefox thinks im arabic??
<MooDoo> wife even
<mbs_> everything is right->left and the searches are all in what im guessing is arabic. help?
<awilkins> You've been targetted for Islamification. The Iman will be with you shortly.
<mbs_> sweet
<awilkins> He doesn't feel pity. Or remorse. Or fear. Except of bacon. And he absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are.. well, Muslim.
<mbs_> Well Praise Mohammed!!!! i would usually use google to fix my problem but i cant speak Arabic. Has anyone else got any ideas?
<awilkins> Delete your profile folder?
<mgdm> mbs_: there's a switch to start Firefox with a new profile
<awilkins> Or that
<mgdm> or at least with the profile manager
<mgdm> 'firefox-bin -p' perhaps?
<mbs_> ok i stopped panicing and deleted my .mozilla folder and its all fixed, thanks all. Why do you think it went wacky in the first place?
<awilkins> Maybe some clown reset your language settings... maybe you accidentally hit it with a Unity HUD search
<popey> oh, is there new firefox?
<popey> oddly I just udpated and got a new google chrome â»
<mbs_> yes and made me sad and arabic
<popey> chrome made your firefox sad and arabic?
<mbs_> well it made firefox arabic and me sad
<popey> I have not observed this behaviour but will be on the look out for it
<mbs_> might of been something stupid i did, but i cant imge how i did it
<popey> I wouldn't venture to suggest you did something stupid
<mbs_> theres a long history of me effing up ubuntu installs
<popey> jussi: did you find another / better HDMI splitter?
<popey> oh. well done
<jussi> popey: nope
<mbs_> so ive decided to sack off Firefox and use Chrome for a bit
<popey> i switched to chromium
<popey> firefox is dead to me
<mbs_> why, did it kick your cat?
<popey> it doesn't work as well as chromium for my use case
<mungbean> i keep deciding to use firefox and forgetting
<mungbean> mozilla needs serious reforming as the waste is colossal
<mungbean> richest OSS project i know , with not much to show for it
<mbs_> im getting anoyed with it for stuff like today and the way it peggs my gpu, and the tab bar corrupts if you open more then 5 gif images
<TheOpenSourcerer> firefox -ProfileManager will let you have as many profiles as you like and choose a default...
<TheOpenSourcerer> firefox -p profilename will start it using the profile <profilename>
<TheOpenSourcerer> I use Firefox mostly and chrome too.
<mungbean> how does i wonder which is better , nexus4 or moto g
<TheOpenSourcerer> Firefox is very fat now and seems to use less memory than chrom
<mungbean> or whether nexus4 is even buyable anywhere
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\fat\fast
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<mungbean> TheOpenSourcerer: every release i'm told that, but the fact is they are both bloaty RAM munchers
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hardly surprising when we *all* end up with 50 tabs open at any one time, most with hugely complex JQuery/Javascript stuff  running in the background
<TheOpenSourcerer> It amazes me they work as well as they do ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lynx they ain't
<mbs_> is that the command line one?
<TheOpenSourcerer> mbs_: http://lynx.browser.org/
<mbs_> yeaaahhhh thats the open i used in college  when we had a terminal access and some really shoddy security on the server
<mungbean> suddenly horse looks more appetising when viewed like this http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71134000/gif/_71134314_newhorsecut.gif
<TheOpenSourcerer> I never though horse unappetising to be honest. I've eaten it in Spain and Belgium before.
<mungbean> had it in russia
<mungbean> tasted like braised beef
<popey> pate on toast for lunch
<popey> last two slices of bread in the house. nicely burned.. oops
 * TheOpenSourcerer just had a chicken jalfrezy 
<TheOpenSourcerer> Had a Chicken Naga last night, and a chicken Madras for lunch yesterday.
<awilkins> Was at a curry house the other night that had a Chicken Naga
<awilkins> I didn't have it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> The one I had last night (http://themahaan.co.uk/) was "OK". Not that great TBH.
<mungbean> went to wetherspoons for lunch. 40 minute wait for food, went elsewhere
<awilkins> We have a 'spoons outside at the station. The venue of choice for all the 0800 lager drinkers.
<diplo> Ours is the same awilkins :/
<mungbean> its a weird mix of students, drunkards and uni staff
<davmor2> mungbean: nexus 5
<mungbean> mroe moneys
<davmor2> mungbean: it has a silly processor in it
<davmor2> mungbean: goto amazon, ebay, and google and see if you can get an n4
<davmor2> mungbean: failing those try places like phone shops and argos
<awilkins> Google say they aren't selling 4's anymore in the UK. Not surprisingly, they probably sold out of it after lowering the price to Â£160 / Â£200
<mungbean> my htc still works but i like to stay abreast of budget/decent cheaper models
<awilkins> Might be a viable strategy for my next phone upgrade, buy a Nexus N-1 just before the N comes out.
<mungbean> yeah
<awilkins> Have a 4 at the moment, very happy with it
<mungbean> i have a choice right now, delete nearly all my apps or continue with terribly slow phone
<awilkins> Only thing I'd change is the storage situation
<awilkins> Even if it wasn't _removable_ I'd like to be able to upgrade it
<awilkins> I mean, they can roll the SD card into an LVM group for all I care and make the phone die horribly if you remove it
<awilkins> But being stuck on the stock 16GB prevents me from just splatting my whole music collection onto it
<awilkins> My N900 had 32GB stock and has all my music on it
<awilkins> Put a MicroSD card slot in the SIM drawer to make it annoying to remove
<shauno> I've relegated my music to a 'cloud' thingie because there's little hope of it fitting on a phone any time soon
<mungbean> i have an awesome mp3 player
<awilkins> Mm, the problem with that is i) cloud thingy and ii) wireless data isn't cheap or polite
<bashrc> 32GB would be good enough for me
<awilkins> By "not polite" I mean that I consider it impolite to be streaming large volumes of static data that you could have easily cached locally (if you had enough storage on your phone)
<awilkins> Because wireless data is a limited resource and I'd rather have it available for dynamic content than have it needlessly used up by content that could be cached.
<awilkins> One of the reasons that the flipping media cartels should be spanked
<shauno> it's not ideal, but I don't see having 300GB spare on a phone any time soon
<awilkins> shauno, Ouch.... I keep having thoughts of writing a dynamic cache thing that swaps music in and out of the phone algortithmically
<davmor2> awilkins: I pay through the nose for an unlimited data plan I make use of it
<mungbean> i have 250mb
<mungbean> because it costs only Â£7.50 per month
<awilkins> davmor2, Tragedy of the commons, innit - "I have the right to this, therefore I will use it as much as possible even if it spoils things for other people".
<awilkins> davmor2, Agree that the prices are probably not entirely reflective of the service - can I enquire what you are paying?
<mungbean> gifggaf unltd web is Â£12
<davmor2> awilkins: to be fair I use mine mostly for testing Ubuntu also so I don't really care :)  Â£37 a month + and S3 in the bundle, unlimited data, unlimited text and 200 minutes of talk
<awilkins> davmor2, Ah.. I stopped buying bundled phones
<mungbean> so you pay Â£25per month for the phone
<awilkins> davmor2, Nexus 4 + Â£10 pcm 500 mins, ul txt, 1GB data
<awilkins> But that's explicitly tethering permitted
<awilkins> Â£12 for ul data but tethering is then considered naughty
<awilkins> I don't need the voice, I have months when my call counter literally stands at about three seconds.
<shauno> about the same here, which is why I wish I could use my dongle's plan on my phone
<davmor2> awilkins: yeah we go camping so I tether up to 2-4 devices then
<davmor2> so I have months where I use very little and then weeks where I use huge amounts :)
<shauno> I pay 20e for 20GB on my dongle, 65e for 2GB on my phone.  same 3g through the same telco.
<mungbean> i am stringent about my mobile prices but i pay monthly for a lnadline i don't use just to have broadband :(
<awilkins> Hah, same here, I have more than enough minutes on my mobile to cover all my calls
<awilkins> Wish I could just go broadband only
<mungbean> :(
<mungbean> i could but it costs more
<awilkins> Yeah, I pay for the TV - I don't even have an STB
<awilkins> Not since the broadband modem was a separate device
<awilkins> The cable goes into my office, not the living room
<awilkins> Used to have a TV card in the computer just to watch the cable
<shauno> ugh, they're trying to push a STB which is the tv/modem/router all in one here.  no sir don't like it
<awilkins> We have a "superhub"
<awilkins> Modem / router
<awilkins> It's in "dumb" mode here
<awilkins> I have my own router
<shauno> I have a similar deal, which is why I'm fobbing off this STB until I'm sure it'll do the same
<shauno> I can't get HD channels until I get their latest widget, but I'm willing to make that tradeoff
<diplo> :source /home/andy/.byobu/profile
<diplo> ooer
<diplo> :)
<diplo> F5 does that fyi
<penguin42> can anyone on virgin-media ping www.dal.net - 154.35.136.58 ?
<popey> nope
<popey> stops inside virgin
<penguin42> hmm, can everyone off virgin-media ping it - I can from my VM
<directhex> 64 bytes from 154.35.136.58: icmp_seq=1 ttl=42 time=118 ms
<directhex> on BT
<mgdm> I can ping it, from some BTthing
<popey> yes
<penguin42> nod, thanks
<awilkins> Can ping it from VM
<awilkins> And outside VM (have an SSH tunnel, can do both at same time
<awilkins> Tell a lie
<awilkins> tsocks is obvs not covering it
<awilkins> Pinging straight from my router isn't workign
<penguin42> how annoying
<awilkins> Stops at 10.34.176.1
<penguin42> my mtr doesn't get that far for me
<awilkins> That's just one hop
<penguin42> yeh not even showing that for me from the router
<shauno> maybe you broke dalnet, this could be the most traffic they've seen for 10 years :p
<penguin42> haha yes, I tend to hover on #science on there - it's not exactly busy
<Myrtti> meh bloody ppi cold callers
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> i'm safe from such things fortunately
<daftykins> barely i even know my landline number :D
<daftykins> i've had one call on it - which was from the telco for a survey \o/
<shauno> heh, I don't know my landline.  I tried calling myself to find out, but it seems I'm ex-directory too
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> over here we can dial 1470 prior to the outgoing number to reveal it for a single call
<daftykins> Check out the temperature differences on this laptop with a proper application of thermal paste
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/qovdpvh704n1zjh/temps.jpg
<daftykins> max under load dropped by 23 deg C
<cocoa117> find /usr/local/apache/domlogs/ -xdev -type f -mmin -9 -exec tail -n 1000 {} | fgrep -c 'wp-login.php' \; why this does't work?
<penguin42> daftykins: How hard was it to put it bac together?
<penguin42> cocoa117: how does it fail?
<daftykins> penguin42: thankfully this one was a single underside panel job - 3 screws on the socket area popped the heatsink and heatpipe straight out
<cocoa117> penguin42, it said find: missing argument to `-exec'
<cocoa117> fgrep: ;: No such file or directory
<daftykins> penguin42: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bbma398znt8hl7x/IMG_20131114_174809.jpg
<penguin42> cocoa117: I think your problem is that the | is being interepreted by the shell you typed that in, so everything after it never gets to the find
<daftykins> probably the easiest i've done, somewhere up there with Apple Macbook pros
<shauno> I love that giant hole for hdd2.  more laptops need this!
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> shauno: lacking the caddy to get one in there though - that'd be a pain
<shauno> I replace the optical with a hdd in mine, but that's going to disappear as an option in the not-to-distant future
<penguin42> shauno: A lot now have a very small space for mSATA SSDs
<daftykins> or they're moving to nasty proprietary interface SSDs due to the SATA spec people taking far too long to ratify new forms! *grumble*
<SuperMatt> dang, gravity was awesome
<daftykins> gravity?
<SuperMatt> gravity
<SuperMatt> the new sandra bullock film
<daftykins> oooh yes
<shauno> I was surprised at that too SuperMatt.  but yes, it was
<cocoa117> penguin42, you are star, thanks
<daftykins> how does the 3D fare? i often don't like that it seems to force you where it wants you to look
<SuperMatt> I don't know why anyone has been surprised. It has sandra bullock, it's about space, and it has been getting rave reviews over the last couple of weeks
<daftykins> although i guess in space most of the remainder is... black
<SuperMatt> daftykins: it's... perfect!
<SuperMatt> best use of 3D I've seen
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> cool
<shauno> heh, I'd agree with that
<shauno> my sole complaint for the whole thing, was there was times I'd get distracted staring at the earth trying to figure out where they are
<SuperMatt> the opening is great, you see earth from above, and you can just see that the clouds are only a tiiiiny bit above the earth, compared to where the camera sits. It's such a nice little touch, but it makes the film
<SuperMatt> shauno: agreed!
<shauno> I heard a story about an astronaught, who on his first EVA took a little while to just gawp first.  apparently they have a little dictaphone type deal in the suits, andhe just sat and talked to himself for a while
<shauno> when he eventually got them to release the tape to him, thinking it'd have his profound thoughts on the world from that angle .. it turned out to just be a lot of "woooooww"
<mgdm> that wasn't Chris Hadfield's book, was it?
<mgdm> he had something related to that in there
<shauno> It hink it came by way of chris, but not from his book .. a friend retold it from a book signing she went to
<mgdm> ahh
<shauno> but that's what a lot of Gravity reminded me of.  a very distracting backdrop
<SuperMatt> I did enjoy the story too
<SuperMatt> I mean, it holds all the backdrop together
<shauno> heh, yeah.  it almost redeems her for "The NET".  almost.
<SuperMatt> hahah
<SuperMatt> I'm watching Miss Congeniality now
<SuperMatt> becaue damn Sandra Bullock is awesome
<SuperMatt> if you haven't see The Heat, watch it
<SuperMatt> she's on top comedy form
<Laney> RIGHT
<Laney> i'm now listing at 45Â° to the right
<Laney> and sunk as low as it will go
<mgdm> s/right/starboard/
<mgdm> s/the right/starboard/ even
<Laney> i can never remember which way round that is
<mgdm> port == red == left, starboard == right == green
<davmor2> Laney: trip to Ikea in the morning then
<Laney> away for the weekend, leaving in 10 minutes
<Laney> this is what i'd call a catastrophic failure though
<Laney> as in it is now unusable
<davmor2> Laney: haha
<Laney> standing up
<AlanBell> I nearly got a Markus chair last ikea visit
<directhex> AlanBell, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiBt44rrslw
<AlanBell> :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: I can recommend as it seems can others
<AlanBell> I have a somewhat broken chair probably from PC World, I was lusting after an Aeron but if Markus is good I might go for that
<davmor2> AlanBell: 4 people have said it's good so far :) 2 on here and 2 others on Laney s g+ post
<penguin42> I'm just not sure I could sit on something called Markus
<davmor2> penguin42: call it Chair instead
 * popey has spent a happy afternoon on his aeron
<davmor2> popey: what did you have to fix on it
<popey> it temp fixed it
<daftykins> did someone add me on last.fm? i don't recognise the nickname i got
<daftykins> haha i didn't know some Xbox Ones got shipped early by accident, so MS banned the consoles
<shauno> hope it's a temporary ban
<daftykins> yep, until closer to launch
<daftykins> http://www.chonday.com/Videos/parking-lamborghini-sky-garage-singapore
<shauno> seems like a selly question, but I'm rarely one to put high faith in MS
<penguin42> daftykins: I wonder if they're not allowed to ride in the car to their flat?
<daftykins> penguin42: i pondered that, health and safety i expect -plus the fear of being trapped!
<popey> hmm, google apps for your domain... i cant find how to set up an alias
<daftykins> popey: so user2 goes to user@ ?
<popey> ya
<penguin42> daftykins: I guess it would get messy if they hit the accelerator
<daftykins> popey: hang on i have some clients with GApps, i'll login and see if i can spot it
<daftykins> definitely done it before
<popey> aha!
<popey> found it
<daftykins> popey: may even be on the users' gmail settings rather than the overall control panel
<daftykins> penguin42: :D
<daftykins> vroom vroom
<daftykins> http://adobe.cynic.al <-- just called a client since his email shows up after the Adobe leak here
<daftykins> well, leak/hack
<popey> yeah, its in the dashboard, you click a user then click profile
<popey> "add an alias"
<daftykins> \o/
<popey> turns out there's more than one way to spell "clare" â»
<daftykins> there are two GApps dashboards now which is a real pain =/
<daftykins> haha yeah
<popey> now if only i could get rid of these xbox live emails
<daftykins> i was on a teaching course with some people once, i published notes and contact details to my website for everyone to get to
<daftykins> one of the girls had been setup with a misspelt name at her place of work, so i'd gone and corrected them all only to be wrong
<daftykins> X|
<popey> oof
<daftykins> think it was the classic Rachel/Rachael one
<shauno> sometimes I think Iceland & co have a point when they say "here's a list, pick one".  I hate having the wrong spelling of my name
<penguin42> talking of names, someone just pointed me at     http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4456438/how-can-i-pass-the-string-null-through-wsdl-soap-from-actionscript-3-to-a-co
<shauno> lol
<shauno> rename it Brian and change it back when you need to :/
<Myrtti> new version of XPS 13 announced, but no word of if the Ubuntu version is upgraded as well
<stgraber> assuming the previous XPS 13 edition was based on 12.04 (not sure), there'd be no reason to have a more recent version of Ubuntu on it until 14.04 releases
<stgraber> it's usually Canonical's recommendation (and possibly requirement) for OEM we partner with to ship LTS releases
<stgraber> oh, ignore me, I re-read what you said now ;)
<stgraber> (do they really have different hardware for the Windows vs Ubuntu edition? that seems like a waste...)
<popey> Myrtti: link?
<diddledan> that stackoverflow  about names - the answer which got the 50 bonus points (what do points mean?) can't have read the question very much at all. he seems to think that the last name field is empty and therefore has a null value rather than containing the name "Null"
<diddledan> although the second answer - I wasn't aware someone had set up a "Bobby Tables" website giving advice about proper escaping
<shauno> reminds me, I still need to tame scp for that
<popey> points mean prizes
<popey> they also mean you get credibility like karma on launchpad
<diddledan> ding
<diddledan> ding ding ding
<diddledan> the second one is a very good use of points
<shauno> I have a script that scoots things around on a schedule, and it doesn't like scp, because I have to escape everything twice  (scp "with\ spaces" dest:"moar\ spaces/")
<shauno> thought I had it done until I discovered that there was a bunch of filenames with braces that weren't moving anywhere
<diddledan> eww
<diddledan> why do you have filenames with {} in them?!
<shauno> :)
<diddledan> they haven't come from windows, have they?
<shauno> I actually have no idea what platform the source is, it's a jboss server somewhere
<diddledan> tomcat ftw
<diddledan> jboss is IBM's beast IRIC?
<shauno> (where 'somewhere' is always missouri or bangalore)
<shauno> I think it's redhat's now?
<diddledan> oh god
<diddledan> the horror
<shauno> or always was, I don't know.  I know what the J stands for, and that's all I want to know
<diddledan> JBOSS = Java EEEEEEEK
<diddledan> ?
<shauno> nah.  more; if it's java, call ahmit, otherwise call venkat
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I'll remember that. what're their numbers? :-p
<shauno> oh that's always the bit that hurts me.  091 is the area code for galway, 0091 is india ..
<diddledan> oh god
<shauno> china does that too.  my phone is 086..., china is 0086.  my head is a simple place.  these things just don't work.
<diddledan> that's gonna end up in a funny series of miscommunications and misadventures involving a giant banana and a bomb
<shauno> oh my favourite .. our head office in the states is rhode island, +1-401...
<diddledan> it'll start with "when did the taxi firm offshore to india?"
<shauno> we have a huge customer in maryland who often gets called day & night.  +1-410...
<shauno> now there's a chap somewhere in rhode island, who has the same phone number as this customer, but s/410/401/g
<shauno> and he HATES me
<diddledan> how many times have you called him now?
<shauno> honestly, it's going to upwards of 50
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> and I'm assuming in the middle of his night
<Myrtti> popey: https://plus.google.com/117161668189080869053/posts/dQg8X9Mnsqq
<shauno> well I start at 6am, 1am eastern, which is when I'm most likely to dial on autopilot.  but it's literally all day, all night.  and I know I'm not the only one
<diddledan> you'd think he woulda considered changing his number
<shauno> well, the onus is on us not to be idiots
<diddledan> how likely is that though? honestly?!
<shauno> but this is our most active customer in north america.  there's a lot of calls. it only takes a very small % of mistakes to drive a man to scream obscenities at me
<Myrtti> popey: what he links to https://plus.google.com/103249738935363775674/posts/UbgqazwGLSQ is promising
<diddledan> http://www.buzzfeed.com/scottybryan/this-is-the-best-twitter-conversation-you-will
<DJones> http://news.sky.com/story/1169286/bitcoin-ransom-scam-warning-for-email-users Just came across this, no doubt people here won't fall for it, but worth passing on
<mungbean> on my android phone, twitter app requires me to login after every reboot - any suggestions?
<shauno> why's it rebooting often enough for this to be an issue?
<diddledan> shauno: my guess is it's only got a flattery
<davmor2> catch you all in a week I'm holidaying in sunny sunny Wolverhampton :)
<mungbean> its not rebooting often, but its annoying that you have to type in password after occasional reboot
<shauno> davmor2: have fun, and go easy on the dutyfree ;)
<popey> http://bartongeorge.net/2013/11/15/introducing-sputnik-3-and-its-unofficial-big-brother
<DJones> czajkowski: Ring any bells? https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q71/s720x720/1467233_599865193431849_1031005254_n.jpg
<Nitin> hello i need some urgent help plz
<Nitin> anyone?
<shauno> what's the problem?
<Nitin> ok the problem is....i made a ubuntu 12.04 bootable flash drive...
<daftykins> right
<Nitin> then i installed ubuntu to one of my drive with ext 4 file system..and for the boot ... and then i choose something i don't know exactly but windows 7 was mentioned there...everything went fine ... i actually wanted to make a dual boot....ok then when system booted after the installation of ubuntu...some options were there first one was ubuntu and with recovery mode...and last one was windows 7 loader or something....i selected the 
<directhex> you cut off after "i selected the"
<Nitin> but it didn't started windows 7.... and the screen flashed and then the same menu...then i selected ubuntu...and it started....but windows 7 is not starting up...is there anything i can do to fix windows 7
<directhex> what exactly is the layout of hard disks in your system?
<directhex> i.e. is windows on a different physical drive?
<Nitin> windows is on C drive...and ubuntu is on D drive...
<directhex> those are physically different drives?
<Nitin> but at time of installation of ubuntu...where we choose in which drive we want to install ubuntu...dev/sda1,2,3 like that...i formated my d drive with ext 4 file system and then choose that for installing ubuntu ...then below that boot device option i guess i choose windows 7 it was written there
<Nitin> physically means what? i have one hdd of 640gb and in that i have 3 drives C, D, E...... in C windows is installed....in D ubuntu is installed ....
<directhex> ok.
<directhex> firstly, no. you have one physical disk
<directhex> secondly, ubuntu is not "on D drive". linux doesn't work that way
<Nitin> yes
<Nitin> i guess i am not able to explain u what i have done...?
<directhex> you have multiple partitions on one physical drive.
<Nitin> yes correct
<directhex> are you *certain* you formatted the correct partition? if you boot ubuntu, you should see your windows partitions listed on the left, towards the bottom of the unity dock
<directhex> click to mount the partition & explore the contents
<Nitin> i am chatting u frm ubuntu itself...and i can see my C drive where windows is installed
<Nitin> it is perfectly showing me the contents of E drive and C drive
<directhex> which version of ubuntu?
<Nitin> 12.04
<Nitin> i guess i have done something wrong with the grub
<directhex> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-in9V6L0wh5k/T5miG8_ZIhI/AAAAAAAAACw/s_cldFf1U1o/s400/Ubuntu+12.04+installation+step+4.jpg is the screen where you picked your partition details in the installer?
<Nitin> the grub menu which comes at the time when computer restarts and there few options with the ubuntu is listed...and the last option is Windows 7 something
<Nitin> yes u got me...the last option in the pic... device for boot loader installation....there i have selected dev/sda/windows 7  something
<Nitin> everything with the partition i have done rite...just loading problem is there
<directhex> you selected "/dev/sda ATA ST7645576234 (640G)" or similar, or "/dev/sda1 windows7 (200G)" or similar?
<Nitin> yes i selected the option with windows 7
<directhex> ok, it sounds like instead of picking the option which installs grub to the start of the hard disk, you picked the option which overwrote the windows boot loader
<Nitin> ok
<Nitin> is there anything i can do to fix it
<directhex> do you have windows 7 install media? you can replace grub with the windows loader again with that, then restore grub to the master boot record (NOT to the windows partition's boot record) later
<Nitin> how about installing ubuntu again...and this time pick the right option?
<Nitin> ok how do i do that? i have the install media
<directhex> http://www.tomshardware.com/news/win7-windows-7-mbr,10036.html has instructions, you want to follow the steps after "fixing the master boot record"
<directhex> computers from around 1981 to 2012 boot using "BIOS". BIOS boot loads the first few bytes of your hard disk and does what they say. often, they say "here's a menu of other boot loaders at the starts of partitions". the problem is instead of overwriting the master record at the start of the disk, you overwrote the record at the start of the windows partition. so when trying to boot windows from the menu, you booted the record at the start o
<directhex> f the windows partition... which is grub, since you wrote that there
<Nitin> ok i will try... thanks for ur help
<Nitin> one more thing i want to ask
<directhex> the windows installer repair functions will kill off grub... from there you can reinstall to the right place
<Nitin> how will i reinstall the grub again from Windows partition to other partition?
<directhex> absolute easiest is to reinstall ubuntu & make sure you pick the *drive*, not the *partition*, from that menu
<Nitin> ok so when i will repair my windows startup...that will make ubuntu not to start...coz it will remove the ubuntu loader...i guess....and then i can reinstall ubuntu again ? is that correct
<directhex> yes, correct
<Nitin> ok great...
<Nitin> one more thing...i want to ask
<directhex> ?
<Nitin> while installing ubuntu... i actually created three partitions...one for /home = 40gb, /boot = 512mb, swap area = 8gb .... whether i have correct or not?
<Nitin> and one more / = 30 gb
<directhex> ehm... that depends on a number of factors
<directhex> can you go to paste.ubuntu.com and past the output of "sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda" ?
<Nitin> ok one min
<Nitin> nothing is coming up there?
<daftykins> that's a lowercase L after the - yeah?
<Nitin> actually i have 150gb free space...so how best i can use it ?
<daftykins> just checking
<Nitin> yes lower case l
<daftykins> it really should output plenty
<daftykins> but i don't want to step on directhex' toes
<daftykins> :>
<directhex> Nitin, it's not so much about free space. 1981-style partition layout is *super* fragile to things like partition *ordering*
 * daftykins is not worthy o/ o_ o/ o_
<directhex> i.e. you can't just delete a partition from the middle of your table and put multiple ones in its place
<Nitin> what syntax i have to choose in that? text only?
<directhex> um... what?
<directhex> it's just one command
<Nitin> ok i'll one thing...format my whole 640gb hdd..... what best i can do to make my  ubuntu work lightning fast :P
<directhex> like, here's mine http://paste.ubuntu.com/6423828/
<Nitin> mine is not atall working :(
<directhex> that's more than a little disturbing
<directhex> how about "cat /proc/partitions"?
<Nitin> i just want 100gb for windows ....rest i can use for ubuntu...so what best i can do for it...?
<daftykins> 100GB won't give you much room for data alongside software and Windows
<directhex> from scratch?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-16
<daftykins> nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure
<Nitin> i actually don't use windows much ....before i was using ubuntu and opensuse in virtualbox...from windows ....but now i want ubuntu
<directhex> the easiest, east thing to do, with a blank disk, is to install windows first - use "advanced" mode, and create a partition of the desired size. then the ubuntu installer will have a "use empty space" option where it'll just set up some partitions of recommended sizes in the remaining space
<directhex> http://i.stack.imgur.com/kGMqN.jpg
<Nitin> so install ubuntu alongside windows will not affect windows ?
<directhex> it's a long long time since i ran the installer without having complex partition requirements, but i think that's the point of it
<directhex> even if you installed windows to one big c: partition, the installer can shrink it to make free space for its own partitions
<Nitin> ok
<Nitin> and why do we have option of swap area while installing ubuntu?
<directhex> swap is used for two things - to free up RAM (and keep the system going if you run out of RAM), and for hibernation mode when suspending the computer to disk
<Nitin> ok...
<Nitin> so what would be the ideal size for swap area?
<directhex> same as RAM, plus a few meg for luck, is my formula
<Nitin> ok so i got 4gb ram..so keeping 5gb of swap area would be enough i guess?
<directhex> yes
<Nitin> i saw a video on youtube where the guy kept 512mb for /boot partition... what does that mean?
<Nitin> ??
<daftykins> it's where the kernels are stored, that's a fine idea
<daftykins> a lot - but certainly no harm in it
<Nitin> so keeping only 512mb for kernel is good enough?
<Nitin> or shall i increase the size a bit more?
<daftykins> oh no 512MB is loads
<daftykins> i usually set 150.
<Nitin> ok
<directhex> daftykins, protip: on UEFI, you need a much bigger /boot than 150 :|
<daftykins> that's not even technically a /boot though? :D
<directhex> well, you can still have a /boot in edition to th efi system partiton
<Nitin> so i'll make one partition for /boot = 512mb then one for swap area = 5gb and rest for / ....anything else i should do?
<directhex> e.g. if you have disk encryption you need an unencrypted /boot
<AlanBell> morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<ali1234> what is the keyboard shortcut to switch workspace in unity?
<ali1234> is it still ctrl-alt-arrowkeys?
<AlanBell> ali1234: yes
<tripleclones> ali1234: once you have enabled  workspaces
<ali1234> AlanBell: remember how compiz used to barf if the mouse polling rate was too high? any idea why that was or what fixed it?
<ali1234> the xfce maintainer accepted my zoom patch in principle, just need to clean up some stuff
<AlanBell> ali1234: I found mouse polling to be stable, but compiz doesn't poll faster than the vblank interval anyway
<AlanBell> things get a lot smoother with the polling interval at less than 50hz
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm> My father is looking for me to replace his laptop's HDD with a SSD. Seems he wants a minimum 200GB drive. Anybody had experience of Samsung SSD?
<bigcalm> Hi MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> My Samsung SSD is fine
<MartijnVdS> just make sure you enable discard/trim
<bigcalm> ?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's a mount option, makes it send "this bit of disk is now unused" to the disk
<MartijnVdS> so it can use that bit for wear-leveling
<MartijnVdS> keeping everything working smoother for longer
<bigcalm> Ooo
<bigcalm> This will be used with Windows 7
<bigcalm> Hopefully that feature is available
<Nitin> guys i need help
<Nitin> Processing triggers for gnome-menus ... Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme ... Processing triggers for man-db ... Setting up nuvolaplayer-flashplugin (0.5-0fenryxo3~precise1) ... [INFO] Removing previously installed Flash plugin. [INFO] Downloading Flash from http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/a/adobe-flashplugin/adobe-flashplugin_11.2.202.310.orig.tar.gz --2013-11-16 22:04:04--  http://archive.canonical.com/pool/part
<Nitin> sorry
<Nitin> i am getting this error can anyone please help me?
<Nitin> dpkg: error processing nuvolaplayer-flashplugin (--configure):  subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 8 Setting up nuvolaplayer (2.2.1-0.1~precise) ... Errors were encountered while processing:  nuvolaplayer-flashplugin E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<Nitin> what do i need to do?
<Nitin> anyone?
<DJones> Ugh, just setting a new laptop windows 8 for father-in-law, its got to be most badly designed desktop environment ever, it makes the change from Gnome 2 to Unity look a simple change
<Nitin> guys i need ur help...anyone?
<Nitin> i am getting below error... plz help
<Nitin> dpkg: error processing nuvolaplayer-flashplugin (--configure):  subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 8 Setting up nuvolaplayer (2.2.1-0.1~precise) ... Errors were encountered while processing:  nuvolaplayer-flashplugin E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<SuperEngineer> boo!
<SuperEngineer> just made some changes recommended here [ http://www.techdrivein.com/2013/03/4-simple-tweaks-to-improve-unity-performance-ubuntu.html ]... impressed!
<SuperEngineer> n.b. works for me - doesn't mean it'll work for all .... etc. etc. blah blah blah
<Myrtti> even if some of you are in #ubuntu-offtopic, I have to crosspost this, it's way too funny to not show it
<Myrtti> for your entertainment: http://zed0.co.uk/crossword/
<ali1234> the thing about passwords on a site like adobe is that, yes, a lot of them are terrible
<ali1234> but it is because nobody cares about adobe accounts
<ali1234> it doesn't protect anything useful for 99% of the users and they only created an account because some feature required it
<GentileBen> Myrtti, how are you getting along with the N5? I've found it has excellent standby battery performance.
<GentileBen> Not...so great if you've got the screen on 100% brightness.
<Myrtti> GentileBen: I never have mine on full brightness, well, none of my devices are
<Myrtti> I had to turn the brightness on my new laptop as low as it would go because I just don't like bright screens
<GentileBen> I bet you hate sun spotting too.
<GentileBen> To be fair, the N5's screen is ridiculously bright.
<GentileBen> Indoors, it's actually too bright.
<GentileBen> Eg. the bright red on the call screen - it pierces the eyes.
<Myrtti> I also have Twilight installed
<DJones> Sheesh, Win 8 to Win 8.1 is a 3.1Gb download
<mungbean> thats a lot of gigglebytes for a half baked start menu
<DJones> Yup
<GentileBen> DJones, you don't seem to understand how this "updating" business works.
<GentileBen> If Microsoft was to include just the delta bits for every file changed by official or third party patches, the upgrade would be larger than 3.1GB.
<GentileBen> It's actually more efficient to just ship the standard 8.1 WIM to users - files of whatever version are replaced by the 8.1 RTM build.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-17
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> Remember.. http://xkcd.com/838/
<Myrtti> so now the new Sputnik is official
<Myrtti> http://bartongeorge.net/2013/11/15/introducing-sputnik-3-and-its-unofficial-big-brother/
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: WANT.. but I just got an XPS12 (with the rotating screen)
<MartijnVdS> well, $employer did, for me.
<brobostigon> when you hit more, at the bottom of google now, and it says, not available, what does that meant to mean?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it doesn't have more cards to show you for your current location/time
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, because it isnt entirly clear.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: (like "photo spots", sports statistics for your favorite teams, etc.)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep. it seems to think i am only interested in the weather all the time,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if you put appointments into your Google calendar, and add locations to them, they'll start showing up
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I get "You need to leave now!" popups even :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, that they do.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i do aswell, for example before i have a drum lesson.
<MartijnVdS> http://www.itchyfeetcomic.com/2013/11/to-fault.html#.UoilG0rujAQ
<ali1234> hmm ok so click frameworks = an empty file with whatever framework you want to announce you have
<ali1234> that's kind of cheezy, but whatever
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Apache Click?
<ali1234> no ubuntu click
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Anybody know how to correctly use the wifi connection of a laptop from Virtual Box?
<MartijnVdS> transparently?
<MartijnVdS> or NATted?
<MartijnVdS> because that second option works out of the box for me
<bigcalm> Okay, I'll try it on the 1st adaptor
<bigcalm> NAT or NAT network?
<bigcalm> Starting an ubuntu server in vbox on a windows host shows "Waiting for network configuration...       Waiting up to 60 more seconds for network configuration..."
<bigcalm> That's with NAT as the 1st adaptor
<bigcalm> Oh, despite that, the vm is able to connect to the outside world :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I've only use virtualbox with vagrant really
<bigcalm> Somewhat regretting naming the vm "iain-laptop-ubuntu-server"
<MartijnVdS> ilus!
<bigcalm> Heh, why didn't I think of that?
<MartijnVdS> also, ~/.ssh/config to the rescue
<bigcalm> Can one rename a machine easily?
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> bigcalm: Update /etc/hostname and check your /etc/hosts - it's got a reasonable chance
<bigcalm> That all? Oh :)
<MartijnVdS> well that + a reboot
<MartijnVdS> ob
<MartijnVdS> v
<bigcalm> Eee, that worked :)
<bigcalm> ilus sounds quite nice now
<MartijnVdS> illustrious, almost
<penguin42> bigcalm: Watch out for anything too odd, but that should be fine
<MartijnVdS> you could grep for the old hostname in /etc
<bigcalm> In the name of ssh keys
<MartijnVdS> that's not a problem
<bigcalm> Now grepping the whole file system. This may take some time
<MartijnVdS> nothing out /etc should break things
<MartijnVdS> outside of*
<bigcalm> Okay
<bigcalm> Loads in my home dir :(
<bigcalm> Hopefully just cache files
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ~/.bitcoin -> cash files
<bigcalm> ;)
<Myrtti> aw my gawd, Cooking with Dog on Google+ \o/
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: http://www.recipesource.com/ethnic/asia/filipino/00/rec0001.html ?
<Myrtti> obviously not
<Myrtti> https://plus.google.com/+cookingwithdog/
<Myrtti> love the graphics
<MartijnVdS> It's called "Cooking with dog" but it's not about recipes with "dog" as an ingredient?!
<DJones> Clicking the link, I was expecting it to something involving "Dog The Bounty Hunter", probably involving BBQ's & beer
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: thatsthejoke.mpg
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: the joke is unfunny.
<dubac0_> anyone here know how to make Swedish buns for Lucia
<Myrtti> dubac0_: http://www.food.com/recipe/saint-lucia-buns-lussekatter-saffron-buns-43784 ?
<penguin42> AlanBell: Just checking, you do know about CPC don't you?
<daftykins> what about CPC :O
<penguin42> daftykins: I hate to think how much AlanBell would spend buying all the bits for his Pi from Maplin
<daftykins> oic
<penguin42> daftykins: and how many Maplins he would have to go to to find 32 of something, probably at least 33
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> when i was tempted i just went on amazon
<AlanBell> penguin42 yes maplin is just good for seeing components in person
 * penguin42 is a bit knackered today after walking around Cam and London yesterday
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> penguin42: anything special going down there?
<penguin42> daftykins: Just met up with a friend and had a look around Cam, not had a chance to look around it before
<daftykins> cool - no i've never been
<daftykins> i hear it has a lot more character than most places i've been in England
<daftykins> Oxford, too
<penguin42> yes it's quite nice, leafy and lots of bits of architecture
<penguin42> https://plus.google.com/photos/+DavidAlanGilbert/albums/5947203234131498673 are my pics
<penguin42> did 3 or 4 of the museums
<daftykins> if i lived somewhere like that i'd like to give kiyaking a bit of a go :)
<penguin42> haha along the Cam?
<penguin42> but it was a bit of a long day; 6:35am train from Manc to London, bounce off London to Cam, then back to London, bit of a walk around that and then back on 6:40pm train, so go out about 5:30am and get back up about 9:30pm - yawn!
<daftykins> cor! how long is the London train?
<penguin42> 2h10 to London, about 45min to Cambridge, a bit longer in reverse in both directions
<daftykins> ah not too bad
<penguin42> nod, pity we're not going to see HS2 in any sane timescale
<daftykins> i found it quite amusing that Gatwick -> Hastings is 90 mins, whilst the Brighton -> Gatwick express is 35
<daftykins> HS2?
<penguin42> High Speed 2 - the mythical high speed train network the government wants to build
<penguin42> should cut Manc-London to 1hr, which frankly isn't that big an issue - but the fact it cuts Manc-other places where you bounce off London down is much more useful
<daftykins> ah, i had not heard of this
<penguin42> really? Oh they do keep you isolated there....
<ali1234> yeah problem with HS2 is it reduces london-manchester by cutting out everywhere else
<penguin42> ali1234: Well it does have Brum
<ali1234> london to nottingham is supposedly reduced by half an hour
<ali1234> but in reality it goes to a different station in the middle of nowhere which is like an hour from nottingham
<penguin42> daftykins: Then I guess you'll also be unaware of the Big Blue Cock in London - https://plus.google.com/photos/118251468822440261663/albums/5385163491826366161/5947211789157882002
<penguin42> ali1234: Ah, yeh not as useful
<ali1234> london and manchester are the only two places i ever go
<ali1234> so HS2 sucks
<daftykins> penguin42: it's more me keeping me isolated :) i don't even particularly follow local news, because it's always about Jersey Â¬_Â¬
<penguin42> ali1234: Are they going to link that new station to the tram system there?
<ali1234> i doubt it
<daftykins> penguin42: hrmm hard to get any scale of said blue avian :D
<ali1234> it will be a local train service
<penguin42> daftykins: oh 10s of ft
<penguin42> daftykins: 472cm apparently according to Wikipedia but it doesn't say in which direction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hahn/Cock
<daftykins> :D
<Myrtti> hmmmmmm ponder www.indiegogo.com/projects/mybells-the-smart-bells/x/5424084
<Myrtti> I was just on Friday cursing the ninja post men
<daftykins> are they hit-and-running at your place?
<Myrtti> we got a tesco delivery and while I was packing the food away and popped the kettle on the ninjas had been and left a note with "neenerneener, we've got your parcel"
<daftykins> =/
<daftykins> i used to phone in and complain when they did that to me over here
<daftykins> they seem to give you 15 seconds from knocking on the door
<Myrtti> well our kettle is loud
<daftykins> then the postie should've heard it :D
<Myrtti> it's not the first time it happens, but I like the postie so I'm not grumbling too much
<Myrtti> but a proper doorbell would help
<daftykins> ah yes
<Myrtti> indiegogo will be the death of me some day
<Myrtti> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bond-a-modular-revolution-for-you-to-wear/x/5424084
<daftykins> that's interesting
<Myrtti> I've had moments I've wished something like that would exist so bad
<penguin42> daftykins: So hmm, given that there are android watches, and the Samsung watch-add on thing, what's the point?
<daftykins> not sure, i tend to have a bit of a dim view of these back-us-to-make-x websites - they must be churning so many more things directly into landfill :(
<Myrtti> what I'm most eager to get in my hands is Beddit which dsample backed
<penguin42> beddit?
<Myrtti> sleep tracker
<Myrtti> goes underneath the bedsheets instead of relying on a sensor on wrist or such
<penguin42> oh ok, that is interesting, since I don't like anything touching my skin
<daftykins> i installed one of those sleep monitor programs on my android phone but i've yet to try it out
<daftykins> you leave the phone beside you so it can use the sensors to record your movement and so on
<Myrtti> yeah, I had one like that for a long time
<Myrtti> I always forgot to put it on
<daftykins> :D
<Myrtti> besides I often play podcasts with my phone and have a sleep timer that I can extend by shaking the phone
<Myrtti> doing that messes with the sleep monitor programs
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> my friends family are all into sleeping to music/something
<daftykins> i can't deal with it personally - silence \o/
<Myrtti> I've learnt to listen to stuff to cover the noises of a highrise apartment block plumbing and snoring ;-)
<Myrtti> besides bed is the only place I have patience to listen to stuff
<daftykins> yeah i struggle with that medium
<daftykins> audio only - i can't just sit and focus :D
<daftykins> but then trying to do other things at once invariably leads to missing something
<daftykins> heh some people just went past and tried my door... "oops wrong one"
<Myrtti> oh I should get ready for tonights thai buffet
<daftykins> mmm thai food
 * DJones Decides never to support anybody who's using a Win 8 machine, it takes 8 hours from 1st switch on to get it up-to-date and thats before installing useful software like LibreOffice, Pidgin, Thunderbird, Dropbox etc
<ali1234> how is that different to any version of windows?
<DJones> Its not, but its the 1st time I've come across Win 8, that just seems longer
<dogmatic69> got a couple chickens today \o/
<penguin42> this isn't AlanBell's fault is it?
<dogmatic69> nope :D
<dogmatic69> just want some fresh eggs
<dogmatic69> penguin42: getting a 'chicken cam' might be though...
<isleofmandan> Can anyone tell me where Unity launcher items are kept? I'm trying to find out what command is run when I click on a certain launcher.
<isleofmandan> Found what I was after in /usr/share/applications
<GentileBen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQekFkgpFJs lmfao
<GentileBen> "UPDATE: Ubuntu Causes Girl To Drop Out of College "
<GentileBen> "She says Linux fans started harassing her on Facebook"
<GentileBen> Shame on you all!
<ali1234> hah
<ali1234> is that for real?
<directhex> sounds like the linux community to me
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> well
<ali1234> The fact that the woman quit "not one but two semesters of college  because things didn't 'just work' tells me that there is more to this  story than just Ubuntu," Slashdot blogger Mhall119 added. "Others will  no doubt go on about how all of her 'problems' weren't actually problems  with Ubuntu, but a lack of understanding on her part," Mhall119 told  LinuxInsider.
<ali1234> i just can't understand why i never heard about this back when it happened
<directhex> i heard it & was unsurprised by it
<ali1234> i'm guessing the usual suspects tried to spin it as "look at how the linux community hates women"
<ali1234> rather than the far more accurate "look at how the linux community hates idiots"
<GentileBen> lol ali1234
<GentileBen> She's an idiot for not knowing Ubuntu is terrible compared to Windows.
<GentileBen> I'm guessing she needed MS Office and didn't want to waste her time with Wine.
<ali1234> back in 2009 it actually was
<GentileBen> It's not that the Linux and wider FOSS community hate women - it's just that almost all the educated female programmers go into, you know, well-paying jobs...
<GentileBen> ali1234, nobody admitted that in 2009.
<GentileBen> In 2017 you'll be saying, "Back in 2013 it actually was."
<ali1234> i did
<ali1234> horses for courses man
<GentileBen> You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him play checkers.
<ali1234> anything which i would recognise as linux will never be suitable for the average consumer
<GentileBen> You don't recognise Android as Linux?
<ali1234> depends on context
<GentileBen> Linux's best bet to make some progress on the desktop is x86 Android.
<GentileBen> And all it took was a corporate behemoth like Google....that's the story of FOSS right there.
<ali1234> the bottom line is i don't care if linux ever becomes popular. actually, i would rather it didn't
<GentileBen> It's almost always terrible unless it has a giant corporate benefactor.
<GentileBen> The likes of Intel and IBM are what make Linux strong, not the coder in the basement.
<GentileBen> ali1234, Android is already the world's most popular user-facing operating system.
<ali1234> so?
<GentileBen> So? The Linux Foundation should pour all their resources into Android x86.
<ali1234> yeah i really couldn't care less about the LF either
<GentileBen> Wow, you really aren't a Linux fan at all.
<ali1234> they can do whatever they like, it's their money
<ali1234> as can canonical and google
<GentileBen> Would you go hunting with Mark Shuttleworth?
<GentileBen> Let's say he joins this channel and personally asks you to hunt elephants with him. Would you?
<ali1234> do we eat the elephants after?
<GentileBen> Yes, but there's too much meat so you parcel it up and send it to one of Oprah's schools.
<ali1234> then yes
<GentileBen> You're forgetting the real reason behind the hunt: so Shuttleworth can commission a solid ivory Ubuntu phone just for him.
<ali1234> what's wrong with that?
<GentileBen> If a style icon like Mark Shuttleworth is seen with a solid ivory phone, every African child will want one.
<ali1234> i doubt that
<GentileBen> The elephant population would dwindle as a result.
<ali1234> but on the other hand, when am i ever going to get an opportunity like that again?
<GentileBen> True.
<GentileBen> Ok, but what if you had to choose between an elephant hunting tour with Mark Shuttleworth, a lion hunting tour with Andy Rubin, or a tiger hunting tour with RMS?
 * penguin42 is sure Eric Raymond would be in there somewhere
<GentileBen> I think I'd prefer Andy Rubin's company, but I suspect RMS would knock the tigers out with his feet smell.
<GentileBen> Eric Raymond would be on the crocodile hunting tour, penguin42.
<MartijnVdS> He's still online?!
<directhex> android development is not open, and that's not healthy for linux
<GentileBen> True. People don't seem to be able to differentiate between open source and open development.
<ali1234> yeah that's something i have often complained about too
<GentileBen> Why? Android is easily the best consumer Linux implementation.
<GentileBen> Chrome OS does suck, however.
<ali1234> sure
<GentileBen> I'm still not sure why they didn't just put Android on their "Chromebooks".
<directhex> different internal teams
<ali1234> but a) i personally have no use for consumer linux and b) i think open source is more important than open development
<directhex> android is already bad for linux
<GentileBen> ali1234, I agree with the latter.
<directhex> e.g. many devices have android drivers, not linux drivers
<directhex> which is why many non-android mobile platforms use an android kernel, not a linux kernel
<GentileBen> directhex, because it shows how stable, fully-featured and popular Linux can be when it isn't managed by a bunch of warring nerds who can't manage a project to save their lives?
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm not sure - non-open development causes some problems; it doesn't trap a lot of the screw ups before they happen, and it seems to make me have less choice about what I get
<penguin42> ali1234: But yes in principal if it's open source there is a chance to fix it
<GentileBen> penguin42, the most important thing is that the code can be audited by anybody.
<ali1234> consumer linux is rarely what i would describe as "fully-featured"
<GentileBen> That's all that matters...not that some dumbass who thinks he's king can contribute to the project.
<penguin42> GentileBen: But only when it's too late if it's not openly developed
<directhex> GentileBen, nothing to do with those factors, everything to do with silicon vendors only caring about paying customers - if htc or samsung or sony are paying for support for their phones, they support the phone's kernel
<ali1234> in fact selling anything to consumers usually means removing features so as not to confuse them
<directhex> which is needlessly not linux compatible
<GentileBen> ali1234, Android is fully-featured to the point where Apple are actively stealing features.
<GentileBen> Actually Microsoft make more money from Android than Google do (directly, anyway).
<GentileBen> MS convinced the handset makers that they need to pay a fee per handset sold, due to invisible patents.
<ali1234> that's nice for consumers but i am not a consumer
<GentileBen> directhex, Google have begun to address that issue anyway.
<GentileBen> What can be recognised as "Android" is being forked and put into proprietary Google apps on the Play Store.
<daftykins> crikey, Foxconn employees sabotaging Playstation 4's in protest, hundreds of consoles received DOA
<ali1234> as long as these companies follow the licenses i don't care what they do
<GentileBen> Next up: the gallery is being moved into Play, the keyboard has already, and so has Search and the new Launcher (though it's inactive in non-N5 devices).
<GentileBen> daftykins, hundreds...haven't they shipped millions?
<GentileBen> Every console can be traced back to the production line. Correlate shifts and you can start sacking people!! ^_^
<ali1234> i love android, and i do recognise it as linux, but i would never consider replacing my desktop with an android system because it has literally none of the features that i need from a desktop OS
<directhex> "sacking"
<directhex> via the exit on the roof
<brobostigon> dr who, sounds of the drums, bbc3, :)
<GentileBen> ali1234, I guess that means you use Windows?
<ali1234> why would i use a consumer OS like windows?
<directhex> OS hipsters
<directhex> we all use plan9, yes?
<GentileBen> I guess that means you use Solaris?
<ali1234> i have used solaris in the past
<directhex> i'm an experienced solaris sysadmin
<ali1234> i would take it over windows or apple
<directhex> solaris is garbage by idiots
<daftykins> GentileBen: ok so i'm unaware on exact numbers, so ignore that part.
<directhex> it's moronic by default. every potentially stupid choice is there and stupid and default
<daftykins> GentileBen: "nths arriving DOA" :D
<directhex> e.g. /bin/sh as default interactive shell
<ali1234> wait, my bad, i was thinking of irix
<penguin42> directhex: talking of Solaris....
<ali1234> though i'd still probaby take solaris over windows
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: at least it's not aix
<penguin42> directhex: In Manc Picadilly I saw a PC running exceed showing train track info, whatever it was running was Openlook widgetry
<directhex> i think this channel appears to be growing an excess of miserable gits, beyond our usual pet miserable git ali1234
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: the train track info screens in .nl all run some embedded Windows.. which crashes several times/year
<ali1234> directhex: ha! pot is calling the kettle black...
<MartijnVdS> (every time the XML they receive over GPRS over GSM-R is corrupt/times out)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: These aren't ones that users normally see, I was just there very early and the central info booth was closed, but they'd turned their screens around for other staff to see
<directhex> i'm more of a dark grey
<brobostigon> oh yes, i have seen several good pictures of such fails MartijnVdS
<daftykins> a presentation PC in my supermarket always has a dialogue up saying there's a logmein update available
<brobostigon> lol
<GentileBen> MartijnVdS is just miserable because Holland drew with Japan, directhex.
<GentileBen> 2-0 up but ended 2-2.
<GentileBen> Almost as gutted as bashrc was when Alexis Sanchez scored his second.
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I came into an electronics store once at opening time, and they couldn't help me, because their system was running an update, for >1 hour. On a week day.
<daftykins> =]
<penguin42> was it a Tuesday......
<daftykins> their "POS" system tee-hee
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: they never could get the hang of tuesdays?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: in the end, they placed an order in their web shop, paid using the company card, and gave me the camera + lens 8-)
<brobostigon> lol
<penguin42> haha
<MartijnVdS> (and they did the card stuff manually for me)
<brobostigon> HHGTTG :) , i could neve rget a hang of *
 * penguin42 is fairly sure that was a Thursday
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> someone has read.
<MartijnVdS> t-day
<penguin42> brobostigon: Heard the radio series actually (multiple times) - I never read fiction (I did once start reading it, didn't get far)
<MartijnVdS> any bakers here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGsrHe7HFAo
<brobostigon> penguin42: i have several copies of the radio series, and several copies of the trilogy in 5 parts.
<MartijnVdS> I have a full CD box set, and the big blue book
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> and netflix (which has the 2000s film ;))
<brobostigon> which isnt bad, but could have been better.
<brobostigon> like trisha and arthur getting it on.
<MartijnVdS> Alan Rickman! Martin Freeman! Mos Def! Zooey Deschanel! Stephen Fry!
<brobostigon> werent meant to be there.
<MartijnVdS> Bill Nighy! Sam Rockwell!
<ali1234> i thought the movie was good
<ali1234> you can't really complain that they changed the story when every version is different anyway
<brobostigon> the best was marvin :)
<ali1234> marvin was alan rickman right?
<penguin42> brobostigon: I only have the CDs for the original two series, I have heard the later ones but didn't think as much of them
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: voice, yes.
 * popey went to see the live radio show last year
<ali1234> of course
<brobostigon> ali1234: read douglas's adams's brief of it, it was only meant as he saw it, on the first book.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: body was Warwick Davis
<popey> oof http://www.hitchhikerslive.com/
<MartijnVdS> Last-Modified: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 13:27:50 GMT
<penguin42> brobostigon: One odd thing was that I never heard the 'christmas special' that linked the two series for many many years after hearing the original radio series - that did confuse things a little
<brobostigon> penguin42: agreed, alittle.
<popey> missed that
<penguin42> popey: The one with the lift ?
<ali1234> i think i cracked the problem of packaging raceworld: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6434137/
<ali1234> Depends:libstdc++6,libfreetype6,libx11-6,libxt6,libxaw7,libxcb1,libsm6,libice6,libxext6,libxmu6,libxpm4,libxau6,libxdmcp6
<penguin42> ali1234: Maybe try dpkg-depcheck
<ali1234> isn;t that only useful for build dependencies?
<ali1234> it lies anyway
<penguin42> it does?
<ali1234> lists packages that i'm shipping a local version of
<ali1234> like zlib, which is compiled in
<penguin42> you sure it's using the compiled in version?
<ali1234> maybe not
<ali1234> freetype is meant to be built in too
<ali1234> hmm... it has the wrong so name
<directhex> um... i am confuse
<directhex> dh_shlibdeps generates the list of linked libraries, you Depends: ${shlib:Depends} in debian/control to use it
<directhex> pointless binary dependencies are due to the lack of --as-needed flag to ld
<directhex> unlike with .net assemblies, .so libraries will include everything you link to, whether a symbol is really used/needed or not
<directhex> using ldd for this will not account for private versions
<directhex> since it's a really really dumb way to do it
<ali1234> `Depends' field, invalid package name `${shlib': must start with an alphanumeric character
<directhex> ok, what the $expletive are you *doing* here?
<ali1234> making a binary deb
<ali1234> the 'grep usr' accounts for private libraries, since they aren't in usr, they're in ./lib which is set in RPATH
<directhex> why are you badly reinventing a hundredth of debhelper?
<ali1234> because literally none of the debian package tools have proper documentation
<ali1234> as a result it's impossible to know what they do, or what they are supposed to do
<directhex> christ
<directhex> ok, just...
<directhex> read https://wiki.debian.org/IntroDebianPackaging
<ali1234> i have done
<ali1234> it's not relevant to binary debs
<directhex> it really is
<ali1234> no it isn't. there is no upstream source.
<directhex> the only difference when your source is binaries is you have an empty override_dh_make: rule
<directhex> that's the ONLY difference. you skip the build step.
<ali1234> this simply produces a lot of files which need to be maintained, but do nothing
<directhex> ... quite
<directhex> are you calling "ar" by hand to generate the .deb too?
<ali1234> no, i just dpkg-deb -b
<directhex> the most glaring technical issue with the 9 lines of "packaging" you've shared is it doesn't account for versioning
<directhex> for example, your package will not work with libfreetype 6 <2.4.0, but your dependencies would be satisfied
<directhex> these details are encoded in .shlibs files in /var/lib/dpkg/info
<directhex> which are parsed when dh_shlibdeps generates the dependencies of the packaged binaries
<directhex> or libx11-6 < 2:1.6.0
<ali1234> how do you know it wouldn't work?
<directhex> you can add symbols between versions of a library without changing the soname. you aren't scanning for symbol use to determine *precise* requirements, and you aren't using shlibs to determine presumed package-maintainer-says-abi-is-bumped requirements
<directhex> you're just saying "herp derp these libs have the same filename! :D"
<ali1234> package name, but yes
<mindlesstaboo> Can someone help me please? i am experiencing some problems with ubuntu
<mindlesstaboo> Basically a few of my Fn keys wont release, after i press this key for example it is the volume with Fn key, it goes all the way up or down and the keyboard locks.
<mindlesstaboo> I think this may be linked to the file 60-keyboard.hwdm
<mindlesstaboo> 60-keyboard.hwdb*
<mindlesstaboo> Anyone at all?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-10
<map> hey all
<daftykins> mornin'
<map> ordered a new laptop:D
<map> couldnt resist..need a bigger screen;p
<map> il take my samsung rv520 back to my dads when back in UK and he can try ti fix:D
<daftykins> quitter!
<daftykins> screen for the watching of things i take it?
<zmoylan-pi> reminds me of the time i went back to my desk after lunch and found my boss had sold my monitor. he still expected me to finish some code of course...
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> how'd that afternoon go?
<zmoylan-pi> i sat at keyboard and typed randomly into what was a text editor before i left to make a point
<map> and yea daftykins
<map> quitter? gonna fix the samsung..i hope;D
<daftykins> why don't you just get a TV
<map> well i dont have anything to ut it on
<map> unless it was a small ish one
<map> only got 2 like drawers
<map> weird thing was couldnt order it to gib
<map> jhad to send it to my friends girlfriend in Marbella
<daftykins> 0o
<map> strange eh
<zmoylan-pi> islands are strange beasts to most delivery organisations, makes me think they're staffed by vampires or something :-p
<zmoylan-pi> and enclaves are just islands without the water
<map> but the deliver to spain
<map> O_o
<zmoylan-pi> because the border between gibraltar and spain is not a happy fluffy one
<map> :D
<daftykins> i used to buy stuff from the UK arm of the swedish (i think) etailer, komplett
<daftykins> when you looked at the tracking, things would come down from Sweden and bounce between Germany and England, then England and Denmark... before eventually deciding where the Channel Islands i'm on, are
<zmoylan-pi> and a lot of sites will say free shipping to the uk until you select channel islands.  thus reinforcing my vampire theory :-)+
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> not sure how those connect but ok!
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: what happened with the sold monitor tale!?
<zmoylan-pi> my other boss looked at him like a complete eejit and told him off for selling the monitor.  it was a wacky cga/av monitor we used in a video shop point of sales system where it be showing movies until they flipped to the pos system
<zmoylan-pi> because by that point they were hard to get and expensive so it killed one machine in the office for a few days and we couldn't even get the code off it till a new monitor was sourced
<daftykins> >_<
<zmoylan-pi> also didn't help as the computer was also the fax machine using a horrible dos based tsr piece of software for a fax/modem
<daftykins> eww
<zmoylan-pi> so when you heard the fax line ringing you had 3 seconds to save before your program was flushed from memory for fax software to be loaded.  fun system
<zmoylan-pi> on an xt computer which wasn't known for it's speed
<zmoylan-pi> so you could corrupt the file if you tried to save 50% of the time.  now *THAT'S* how you learn to make quick decisions! :-D
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> the last computer i used with a cga monitor...
<map> time for brooklyn nine nine yay
<daftykins> aaah, what to do... to sleep or to stay up
<zmoylan-pi> face monday after some sleep?
<map> what time u gotta be up
<daftykins> none especially
<map> ;D
<map> watch tv in bedand doze off
<map> beter than trying to sleep
<daftykins> heh i don't have one in the bedroom
<map> i use my laptop:
<map> ;D
<zmoylan-pi> i watch tv shows and movies on 7" tablet
<daftykins> i just turned off my HTPC
<daftykins> hrmmm
<daftykins> good morning all
<daftykins> time to nip down the coffee shop i think
<MooDoo> morning all
<Guest36722> Hi, I installed ubuntu first it worked fine no problem there, and when my system crashed i installed xp os on c drive this erased ubuntu which was alresdy installed. so now whn i try to install ubuntu it does not detect my xp os and prompts to install ubuntu on full 160gb hard drive. so is there any on who can help me dual boot ubuntu along side xp without losing data?
<MooDoo> have you seen this? - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot#
<MooDoo> oh gone
<jake__> yes
<jake__> it does not solve my problem
<jake__> any one there
<MooDoo> this one? - http://www.wikihow.com/Dual-Boot-Windows-XP-and-Ubuntu
<jake__> yep
<MooDoo> ah not sure then, sorry.....
<jake__> okay thanx
<jake__> bye
<jhonny> hi
<jhonny> hi
<jhonny> i am not able to dual; boot ubuntu along side xp
<MooDoo> how come you logged out an then in again as another nick?
<jhonny> i am not nick
<MooDoo> nickname not nick, you went from jake__ to jhonny strange.
<jhonny> no idea
<jhonny> can you solve my problem
<MooDoo> I can't as I said, but I'm sure if someone is about who can, they will speak up. but it's early so not that many people will be around.
<jhonny> okay thanx any way bye
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ujjain> Hello.
<popey> Morning all
<ujjain> My company wants to give me flu shots.
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> ujjain: nice of them
<ujjain> i dont' want flu
<ujjain> do they actually work?
<foobarry> they can tend to give you symptoms too for a bit
<davmor2> ujjain: yes they help, but they target only one type of flu that tends to be the most common that year
<ujjain> ah ok,
<ujjain> I'll take it
<ujjain> I tend to get at least sick once a year, sometimes I stay in bed for a few days, I hate that.
<ujjain> but I feel healthy today, except for a tiny hangover.
<foobarry> my household has been sick constantly for 3 months
<foobarry> my wife has been bedridden for 3 days with sick bug
<foobarry> relief to be at work
<christel> :o
<christel> nothing too sinister i hope
<foobarry> she has chronic fatigue so these things hit her harder
<christel> must be hard for you all
<foobarry> yes it is :(
<Seeker`> davmor2: for large values of one. The current vaccine has 3-4 strains of 'flu
<Seeker`> generally, flu jab gives you one or two days of feeling a little rough. If you actually get flu, you can't get out of bed for 2 weeks
<foobarry> YMMV
<Seeker`> foobarry: on which part?
<DJones> ujjain: My wife gets a flu jab every year, she gets the flu at least once a year (but she's a community nurse, so see's lots of patients affected anyway), I've never had a flu jab or the flu, a guess a sample of 2 isn't a good size, but it works for me
<foobarry> getting really ill from flu vaccinees
<Seeker`> foobarry: the vast majority of people dont
<foobarry> anecdotally, all of the mums at thte ante natal class who had the wine flu jab caught something akin to swine flu/bad cold
<Seeker`> foobarry: how long after the jab?
<foobarry> similar for my nan and the flu jab each year
<foobarry> very soon
<Seeker`> it takes 2 weeks for the vaccine to kick in
<foobarry> which one? swine flu or flu jab
<foobarry> 2 weeks is still very soon
<DJones> At the end of the day, the jab gives you a mild form of the flu, so its understandable to mild symptoms of flu afterwards while your body builds the antibodies to fight it for the future
<foobarry> within 2 weeks is probably more likely
<Seeker`> I mean it takes 2 weeks for you to build up immunity
<foobarry> my son will have the nasal flu vaccine soon
<DJones> What Seeker` said ^^
<Seeker`> so if you get exposed to the flu virus within about 10 days of the jab you can still get the flu
<foobarry> yep
<diplo> Any one recommend a router to replace a BT Home Hub ? I'm guessing BT are not like Sky and don't want you to replace it ?
<foobarry> but strange that the ante natal mums all had a terrible cold and the non vaccine mums didnt
<foobarry> in late preganncy , if you catch a cold, it stays
<Seeker`> diplo: I don't have any problems using a non-BT router for infinity (some EoL Netgear router)
<Seeker`> foobarry: exclusively?
<diplo> OK great, will take a look around, not looked at routers in years.. always have Drayteks from work
<diplo> But a bit out of price range for my dad :)
<Seeker`> But as DJones said, the body reacts as if the virus is real, so a temperature etc. for a day or two is normal
<Seeker`> because thats how your body fights viruses
<foobarry> Seeker`: wasn't performed under scientific conditions but it was along the lines of "you guys have a terrible cold, did you have the swine jab"? and you guys without a cold, did you have it?
<Seeker`> foobarry: you probably ignored the non-vaccine people that were too ill to come to the class :P
<foobarry> heh
<DJones> foobarry: Easily explained, the nurse giving the flu jab had a cold, breathed on everybody getting the jab, and couldn't breath on the others because they were getting coffee in a different room while the jabs were done :)
<DJones> ........Problem solved.....
<Seeker`> and there is a difference between "bad cold" and "flu"
<Seeker`> if you have flu, you won't be out of the house
<foobarry> also, mums with colds during preganncy are more likely to have baby with asthma
<foobarry> so if vaccine->cold then ?
<Seeker`> what? How do you think that would work?
<foobarry> huh?
<foobarry> what would work
<Seeker`> how would the flu vaccine cause someone to get a cold?
<Seeker`> or do you mean if they have the vaccine it must be a cold?
<foobarry> i am convinced the vaccine does cause a cold in many people
<foobarry> especially the obvserved results in old people and pregnants
<foobarry> The nasal spray is well tolerated and the most commonly reported side effects are mild and include runny nose, nasal congestion and cough.
<foobarry> and only recommended for "healthy"
<Seeker`> How do you think the flu vaccine gives someone a cold? It gives them cold-like symptoms, but the symptoms you get are the immune response, which is what you would expect
<Seeker`> hence "feel rough for a few days"
<foobarry> "Low-grade fever, headache and muscle aches also may occur"
<foobarry> so even if you are non-contagious , you essentially get a "cold"
<Seeker`> no. You get an immune response
<Seeker`> you need to have an infection with a cold virus to have a cold
<DJones> Have to agree with Seeker` "Flu" is a different virus to "cold" so symptoms might be similar, but flu jab can't give you a cold, just a mild form of flu
<Seeker`> DJones: it doesn't even give you a mild form of flu.
<foobarry> well that is the definition fo the vaccine
<foobarry> vaccine IS a mild form of the flu
<foobarry> and gives you cold symptoms
<Seeker`> foobarry: you don't get an active infection
<DJones> Seeker`: Yeah agreed, mild symptoms caused by the vaccine as it causes the body to generate antibodies
<Seeker`> calling it "mild flu" is FUD
<foobarry> whether it is active or not , you still feel ill
<Seeker`> foobarry: yes. You feel rough for a day or two. That is vastly better than having flu. Several orders of magnitude better
<Seeker`> however, even if you do feel rough, you don't have a cold. You don't have the flu.
<foobarry> thats why i said you essentially get a "cold"
<Seeker`> you don't
<Seeker`> because to have a cold you need to have an active infection with a cold virus
<foobarry> it looks like a cold and smells like a cold
<Seeker`> but it isn't
<foobarry> whether it is active or not is largely irrelavent to the sufferer
<DJones> foobarry: Bunged up nose, can't smell anything whether its a cold or the flu :)
<TwistedLucidity> Anyone aware of a F/OSS OpenStack-type thing that can be privately hosted?
<popey> uh, openstack?
<ujjain> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultra-Compact-Lipstick-Sized-Portable-External-Technology/dp/B005QI1A8C < this is not a 2amp charger
<ujjain> right?
<ujjain> hahaha :P
<ujjain> opensource openstack = openstack?
<ujjain> that's the point of openstack, build your own cloud
<ujjain> except that it's kind of difficult
<TwistedLucidity> Sorry, finger-fudge
<Seeker`> foobarry: calling everything that results in a bunged up nose a "cold" just isn't correct
<SuperMatt> ujjain: well yeah, it's virtualisation with a great deal of flexibility. it ain;t gonna be easy
<TwistedLucidity> *AHEM* Anyone aware of a F/OSS **StackExchange**-type thing that can be privately hosted?
<popey> ujjain: it says 1A on it.
<ujjain> popey, ah ok, I didn't get that, that sucks then.
<popey> TwistedLucidity: fedora have one..
<popey> https://askbot.com/
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy World Orphans Day! :-D
<ujjain> it's not opensource right?
<popey> oh, maybe not
<popey> surprising
<popey> https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/questions/ i assumed it would be
<ujjain> maybe it is actually
<ujjain> http://www.mkyong.com/featured/top-5-open-source-qa-systems/
<Seeker`> foobarry: and while it might be irrelevant to the sufferer, saying that the flu vaccine causes "flu", "mild flu" or a "cold" is incorrect. It simply isn't accurate.
<ujjain> TwistedLucidity check that link
<ujjain> http://www.osqa.net/ seems perfect
<TwistedLucidity> Ta
<TwistedLucidity> That does look like the shizzle.
<JamesTait> TwistedLucidity, something like discourse?
<ujjain> Askbot is a free open source Question and Answer (Q&A) forum software written in Django and Python. < GPL too btw.
<TwistedLucidity> That's a forum type thing, no?
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: GPL will probably be knee-jerk refused.
<ujjain> http://try.discourse.org/
<ujjain> ah ok, I don't know which FOSS license, if that matters.
<popey> discourse isn't a Q&A
<JamesTait> TwistedLucidity, yeah, you're right, actually.
<TwistedLucidity> I can find out, was just struggling to find examples
<popey> have heards of Shapado before
<JamesTait> I just made the mental link with Jeff Atwood. :)
<foobarry> ok who signed me up to the mellow mushroom e-club?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> Yes.
<davmor2> JamesTait: that's an oxymoron if ever there was one, what have orphans got to be happy about ;)  Happy orphan adoption day I could go with :)
<davmor2> morning bigcalm
<popey> http://www.linuxvoice.com/raspberry-pi-model-a/
<popey> neato
<ujjain> there is a 15 pound one now!
<davmor2> man that nearly a stone
<bigcalm> 1st 1lb
<JamesTait> davmor2, I did think that as I was typing it, and I refrained from wishing everyone a happy cancer awareness day for the same reason. :-/
<davmor2> JamesTait: hahaha, yeah it's hard to judge which would be worse there......oh wait combining the two would definitely be the worse option
<Myrtti> just as I was planning to set a trigger to reply to everything davmor2 says with "*groan*" he actually says something that isn't an awful dad joke or a pun.
<Myrtti> what a lost opportunity
<bigcalm> :D
<davmor2> Myrtti: haha like it :)
<Myrtti> I was starting to suspect you communicate only by puns
<Myrtti> faith in davmor2 having atleast some shred of mental health left: restored
<JamesTait> Myrtti, that won't last long. ;)
<SuperMatt> http://www.meetup.com/Linux-Open-Evening-Hayes-West-London/events/218005122/ - rackspace open evening for linux techs next wednesday
<davmor2> Myrtti: yeah don't worry I have a cold I'm not feeling well ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, I hope you didn't have that when you bear-hugged me on Friday.
<davmor2> JamesTait: no wifey had it then, passed it to me over the weekend cause she's nice like that
<foobarry> too much kissy wissy
<JamesTait> davmor2, aww, how sweet - you even share your pathogens!
<davmor2> JamesTait: you mean you and your family don't :P
<JamesTait> davmor2, Ã¬f it means me getting what Connagh's had the lat couple of weeks, I hope not. :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: oh that sounds rough
<JamesTait> davmor2, it's "only" a cough. But it's the kind of cough that keeps him (and us) up half the night and he's struggling to shake it.
<bigcalm> davmor2: chances of you coming to the LUG this week?
<JamesTait> davmor2, coughing-induced vomiting has become a regular highlight, unfortunately.
<davmor2> bigcalm: if it is this week hopefully high depending on the cold
<davmor2> JamesTait: ouch yes not fun, and what makes it worse is the acid reflux would trigger more coughing thus starting the cycle off again :(
<bigcalm> davmor2: if you're not there, do you want me to give Ron a tenner for you?
<JamesTait> davmor2, precisely. :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: that would be awesome if you could. thanks
<bigcalm> davmor2: erm, I mean Â£5
<bigcalm> davmor2: unless you're bringing a +1
<davmor2> bigcalm: no just me
<bigcalm> Okay
<davmor2> Myrtti: see I can be serious
<bigcalm> Like Hamlet, davmor2 pretends to be mad as a March hare to confuse his peers
<davmor2> bigcalm: no I am as mad as a march hare, I just have moments of lucidity :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's the lucid bits that worry people the most ;)  Don't know why :)
<DJones> ali1234: Thanks for that ssd recommendation, picked one up at the weekend & works nicely, not sure if I notice much of a speed difference compared to the old hdd though
<Seeker`> DJones: speed up doing what?
<DJones> Just general speed, I wasn't expecting much difference
<DJones> From experience so far, it bears out what I expected
<Myrtti> http://finland.fi/Public/default.aspx?contentid=315671&nodeid=37588&culture=en-US
<Myrtti> :-D
<foobarry> our equallogic SAN almost at its 5yr warranty expiry
<foobarry> first disk has just died
<foobarry> uptime 1114 days
<foobarry> great bit of kit
<MooDoo> :)
<zmoylan-pi> did it travel around the planet a few times crossing the international date line so it thinks it's after it's expiration date? :-)
<foobarry> new raspberry pi a+
<foobarry> http://www.raspberrypi.org/raspberry-pi-model-a-plus-on-sale/
<foobarry> Â£15
<zmoylan-pi> while i understand that it's mostly used for embedded tasks i really think it needed 2 usb ports
<foobarry> convenient that the wall berlin came down around this time of year. it means they do not have to mention ze war
<zmoylan-pi> also came down same day as krystalnacht so drowns that out a smidge too
<foobarry> yes
<zmoylan-pi> OR it could be seen as a country that something appaling happened in got's its act together and did something wonderful a few years later?
<foobarry> and so it starts all over again: tv ads showing e-cigs
<zmoylan-pi> well they've already started banning vaping in public spaces so it may not be on tv long
<foobarry> unless it makes money
<foobarry> some rules haven't been updated yet
<foobarry> a colleague is vaping in the office, but it irritates my throat and i can taste it
<zmoylan-pi> well it may take less time to get it off air.  though how they'll ban the vaping not shown vaping ads will be interesting
<foobarry> H&S unofficially advised that it is banned
<zmoylan-pi> i still fondly remember the funny hamlet ads in the 80s
<foobarry> but no clear comms coming centrally means awkward convos arising rather than a global email saying don't vape indoors
<zmoylan-pi> true but we live in a huggy feely don't want to hurt anyones feelings hr world
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: the first introduction most kids got to classical music ...... oh that's the hamlet music
<diddledan> waht's wrong with vaping?
<zmoylan-pi> bad for you
<foobarry> its more likely that it takes ages for issues to be decided upon
<foobarry> if a colleague does it indoors we all breathe it
<foobarry> it irritates my throat
<foobarry> and tastes nasty
<foobarry> it's not just water vapour
<brobostigon> in theory, vaping makes smokers more productive, as its saves on the time, they would use to go out for a smoke, to actually doing producitve things in the office.
<zmoylan-pi> while annoying the other users of the office
<TwistedLucidity> Simple, just doc smokers 1 hours wage every day to compensate for wasted time.
<foobarry> dont hire smokers
 * TwistedLucidity await fireworks...
<brobostigon> that has been known to happen already, TwistedLucidity
<ujjain> well, let people smoke but judge them on their productivity
<ujjain> just don't judge non-smokers badly if they spend an hour away frmo their desk during their day
<foobarry> 1hr ?
<ujjain> but who am I, i'm going to spend3pm to 5pm playing pool
<foobarry> i had a colleague who spent 1hr at his desk
<foobarry> and the rest in the smoking room chatting up the ladies
<ujjain> ah, good life.
<foobarry> smoking room = common non-work room
 * brobostigon used chewing tobacco in his last office, he got the micotine, was productive, and didnt annoy anyone with bad smells etc.
<foobarry> the vaper uses patches+vape
<foobarry> +cigs
<zmoylan-pi> just as long as his spitoon was emptied...
<ujjain> yeah, hehe, a lot of people get away with it, a lot of pepople also seem to be 3 or 4 times as prodcutive as others and just make the same money
<diddledan> http://www.itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/66014-systemd-fallout-joey-hess-quits-debian-project
<foobarry> greybeards...
<diddledan> I wonder where he'll go?
<brobostigon> isnt that what tissues were invented for ?, zmoylan-pi ?
<zmoylan-pi> the elder sandals, they should not be dismissed as they are wise
<brobostigon> and bins
<TwistedLucidity> Ceilings?
<diddledan> under the desk
<zmoylan-pi> actually no brobostigon, kleenex were invented to remove makeup, they put up a suggestion box for other uses till someone added a disposable hankerchief
<TwistedLucidity> No wait, that's wet tissue paper
<diddledan> oh wait, that's schools
<diddledan> heh, double "oh waits"
<brobostigon> and to remove mucus from ones nasel passages.
<foobarry> and "other things"
<ujjain> Me: Sorry, I canât accept this booking. I could never meet the deadline.
<ujjain> Client: Why?
<ujjain> Me: Well, because itâs at least 45 hours of work.
<ujjain> Client: So? The deadline is 48 hours away. (clientsfromhell.net)
<zmoylan-pi> just read that on rss
<foobarry> my old boss
<foobarry> "this data will take 3 hrs to copy"
<foobarry> "i'm back from lunch in 1hr , have it done"
<foobarry> "but physics..."
<zmoylan-pi> i'd sit staring at the machine and tell him i'm willing the computer to do the job faster
<foobarry> he'd already left
<brobostigon> pretend to be the opposite to scotty, i am no miracle worker.
<foobarry> turns out his lunch took 3 hrs and he just wanted to try to dominate me
<zmoylan-pi> set all the clocks in the office back 2 hours... and claim some sort of time dilation has delayed the copy
<foobarry> sociopath
<brobostigon> :(
<foobarry> he made people cry often
<brobostigon> some people are very cruel.
<zmoylan-pi> i used to throw my boss down the stairs when he said things that were extra stupid. was the office punishment
<diddledan> 50 shades of grey
<foobarry> :-|
<brobostigon> "50 shades of being a nutter of a boss"
<foobarry> i left because of irrational behaviour like that
<foobarry> kept acquiring companies and sacking their IT
<foobarry> because i'd managed to consolidate their stuff before,
<foobarry> it set a new baseline for expectations
<foobarry> if you don't like failure, you will end up breaking yourself as the pressure increases to breaking point
<foobarry> i see that in alan sugar too
<foobarry> why would anyone give him the time of day?
<foobarry> yes lord sugar, thankyou lord sugar for the oporutnity to be your slave
<diddledan> foobarry, was he the archetype for the book?: http://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/aug/24/fifty-shades-grey-domestic-violence-campaigners
<foobarry> i think he was textbook sociopath
<diddledan> sounds like the book alright
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> seriously I don't get why women found the book empowering
<foobarry> whats that business with the guy who killed those 2 girls in hong kong?
<foobarry> its bizarre
<diddledan> not sure I'm aware of that one
<foobarry> how do you make the step from wall st -> lord of the flies
<foobarry> google rurik jutting
<foobarry> On his final day at work Rurik Jutting cleared his desk and recorded a new voicemail message.
<foobarry> Part of it read: âI am out of the office. Indefinitely. For urgent inquiries or indeed any inquiries please contact someone who is not an insane psychopath.â
<diddledan> ah yes
<diddledan> eek
<diddledan> seriously mucked up that is
<zmoylan-pi> that sort of job attracts psychopaths anyway i thought
<diddledan> ooh, my gmail has hit 7.99GB
<foobarry> i used to work with them
 * diddledan waits for it to clock-over
<foobarry> and the wannabees too
<zmoylan-pi> i just delete anything more than 2 years old in my gmail and have it stored locally for backup
<foobarry> why not setup a ***2@gmail.com and archive it there?
<zmoylan-pi> it's pretty sad thay there's no way to detach attachments and safe space that way without forwarding silliness
<foobarry> offlineimap
<foobarry> download and re-upload
<zmoylan-pi> not worth the bandwidth for such a simple task
<zmoylan-pi> it was requested a few months after gmail started and has never been done
<diddledan> how many spaces does google give a freebie account these days?
<zmoylan-pi> 10gb?
<diddledan> (mine is a business)
<zmoylan-pi> ah 15gb
<diddledan> 15 by the looks
<diddledan> yeah
<zmoylan-pi> my laptop is ripping a dvd so was slow firing up a browser logged into google
<Myrtti> "6.18 GB (24%) of 25 GB used"
<Myrtti> more than ten years of email, with lots of filters
<zmoylan-pi> 57% of space used with 2 years of gmail and a few months of kittykam images
<DJones> 1.66 GB (6%) of 25 GB used
<ali1234> can i use a network scanner on linux? like document scanner, not nmap
<foobarry> another job offer turned down :(
 * zmoylan-pi twitches involuntarily at mention of network scanners
<DJones> ali1234: I'm pretty sure my HP8600 works over wifi, but may well depend on which version of Ubuntu you're using, I think there were issues before 14.04
<ali1234> but how do i find it and connect to it?
<ali1234> i have a HP M175nw and the printer part works okay
<DJones> From what I'm reading, the scanning is supported through the hplip drivers, just try firing up xsane
<DJones> From memory, that just finds it
<ali1234> ah, you have to run sudo hp-setup, which installs some extra plugin for scanning
<DJones> Have you found this link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/sane
<DJones> Basically only says wha you just said about hp-setup though
<ali1234> yeah, you just run it, it's a wizard that does it all automatically
<DJones> Spotted this as well https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ScanningHowTo#HP_All-in-One_devices
<ali1234> it's working now
<popey> nice!
<popey> i had no idea that stuff Just Works â¢
<zmoylan-pi> it's scarey sometimes when that happens
<zmoylan-pi> what bit did i miss nags you for ages...
<zmoylan-pi> like the cup of screws you always have left over after fixing a computer...
<Azelphur> Got an old Latitude D600 I'm trying to install Xubuntu on, it's so old it doesn't have PAE, can I still install Xubuntu on it?
<zmoylan-pi> what happens when you boot live cd or usb?
<DJones> Azelphur: Maybe try a livecd, I seem to remember having a d600 with 12.04 (but may have been older) that worked ok
<Azelphur> DJones, I got the answer, I had to put forcepae in the kernel options
<DJones> Heh
<Azelphur> thanks though :)
 * DJones waits for the force16gb ram kernel option
<diddledan> what does forcepae do?
<diddledan> you can't magic pae support out of thin sillycon if it wasn't there to begin with
<shauno> similar to a stern glare
<shauno> ah, there you are.  the D600 has a pentium M 'Dotham', which have a very annoying trait - they support PAE, but don't list it in their flags
<shauno> or is it the one before that
<shauno> yeah, I'm wrong, I'll shut up now :)
<celesteh> Hi folks. I use AIFF files very frequently, and I was just attempting to test one by playing it in QuodLibet, but that program won't open it. Neither will clementine. Is there some issue with consumer-level music players and aiff?
<brobostigon> have you tried something like vlc?
<daftykins> Azelphur: is that some Pentium M beast? :>
<daftykins> i remember the D505s well
<DJones> One thing I've learned at the weekend, Currys/PC World doesn't sell Windows instore
<ujjain> is it possible to get a burnout at work without having too much work?
<zmoylan-pi> carry a ups from bottom of building up to top of building 3-4 times?
<directhex> ujjain, definitely
<directhex> the issue often isn't being overworked, it's a feeling of futility
<directhex> i.e. your work makes no difference so sod it all
<ujjain> Yeah, it even makes me feel worse when people dont undersstand how I canÂ´t enjoy being able to spend 40 hours a week on Facebook, anything etc.
<daftykins> wait what, is facebook your job? D:
<directhex> lack of work kis a major cause of burnout
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.theguardian.com/culture-professionals-network/culture-professionals-blog/2012/may/24/burnout-advice-recognise-prevent-deal
<directhex> ubisoft have an office filled with junior devs they need to keep on the payroll for millions in kickbacks from the canadian government, but no work to do. it's commonly regarded as torture by those sent there
<ujjain> there is a lack of work, and when there is work, itÂ´s rebooting servers
<directhex> invest your spare time on your personal development?
<ujjain> Yeah, IÂ´ve done that a few months, but I have a hard time still enjoying it.
<zmoylan-pi> setting personal goals can be hard, find someone else there to work with?
<ujjain> Yeah, I guess. :) At least I had an interview in a different taem last Friday, but I didnt feel that good, not like I could nail the interview.
<ujjain> The technical questions yes, but there were 40% non-technical, like character questions, Â¨what is your biggest mistakeÂ¨, I dont feel that good at my job, so I didnt feel I had a good story
<popey> "this interview"
<map> hi all
<map> going into spain later again:D
<daftykins> D:
<map> went to charlies steak place tonight..first time ive had prawns!
<map> cant say im too fussed either
<map> don't get the big deal
<daftykins> they have to be had with marie rose sauce
<daftykins> which looks pink
<map> no idea what that is:D
<daftykins> then they are the food of the gods
<map> but it just seemed like well a lot of effort..for not much meat
<daftykins> it's like tomato ketchup and mayo mixed i think
<map> taking shell off etc
<diddledan> map, what's the point going to a steak place and not having .. yaknow .. steak
<daftykins> oh if they're not peeled then yeah, i'm not into that
<map> diddledan,  i had mixed grill dude
<map> and it had 2 king prawns
<map> yea daftykins  its like an effort and for bugger all edible meat;p
<map> and they taste a bit bland?
<daftykins> yep not much to them
<daftykins> just like lobster really
<map> never had that either
<Azelphur> daftykins: yup it was :)
<popey> prawns in garlic butter >>>>>> prawns in marie rose sauce
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> if you think prawns were bad, lobster is like a day job to get to food
<Azelphur> runs really well on Xubuntu 14.10 amusingly, only fault I found was that the boot screen is a mess
<map> heh
<map> nice place though
<daftykins> Azelphur: neat! RAM must be low?
<map> sucks you all live in the uk
<zmoylan-pi> try lubuntu to use less resources for a performance bump?
<map> with no such cool places
<map> :D
<daftykins> well i don't ;)
<Azelphur> daftykins: 1GB
<daftykins> lubuntu is too ugly imo ;)
<Azelphur> hehe
<map> i like lubuntu
<popey> Azelphur: seen http://ubuntu-mate.org/ ?
<map> an xubuntu
<zmoylan-pi> an acquired taste to be sure
<popey> Azelphur: 14.04 version should be coming this week, 14.10 already done.
<map> like prawns
<Azelphur> popey: I haven't, looks cool
<popey> retro â»
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<Azelphur> I did it because he said all he used was chrome, and he was running XP
<Azelphur> so he had to move to something :)
<daftykins> good man. XP needs killing everywhere we find it
<map> what did you do?>!
 * zmoylan-pi upgrades those systems to win 3.11 :-)
<daftykins> map: yeah well you like netbooks so you don't get an opinion ;)
<map> gah
<map> ;[
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek1fogzr3a3dqf9/IMG_20140711_142615.jpg?dl=0
 * diddledan sings "can you feel the love tonight"
<daftykins> still love this build i did
<daftykins> map: changed your tubes to pay for what you're actually getting, yet? :>
<diddledan> blinking nora, that's a huge heatsink
<daftykins> yip! it's my main clients desktop box, the thinking was to go overkill so it'd require less maintenance ;)
<daftykins> but that's a kentsfield Q6700 core 2 quad under there
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5c535s9knaxtrjn/AAC5wT3RKy-ip5zE6HbXOxQ8a?dl=0
<diddledan> .. until you need to vacuum the thing
<daftykins> never happened :)
<daftykins> it's kinda funny, the whole system is stable, but it got a lightning strike once and so some USB ports are fried
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> i'd been using it undressed on the bench there for a long time, decided to get the cheapest case i saw online
<diddledan> I love how ocz don't actually tell you how many giganuts they've put into the ssd
<daftykins> plus it's my PSU ;D
<daftykins> that's a 120GB i believe
<map> nah
<map> emailed em daftykins
<map> but no reply
<daftykins> map: but you're burning money D:
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> I'll gladly take any money that needs burning
<map> heh
<map> i havent paid a bill yet daftykins  and no direct debit
<map> so hoping they sort it out and then charge me or something
<daftykins> diddledan: the thought occurs to me that that box is a good graphics card away from being quite the gaming machine - for someone that doesn't mind quirky USB :D
<map> whats wrong with it
<daftykins> i already said map :P
<penguin42> daftykins: If a lightning strike only took out USB ports I'd count it as lucky!
<map> ah
<map> what specis it
<daftykins> penguin42: it is :D it also murdered the base station of a cordless phone tha the secretary was using at the time
<daftykins> she was a bright flash and then got cut off
<penguin42> haha
<daftykins> weird part is everything's UPS'd on that affected PC
<daftykins> i think it went over the network cabling somehow
<map> thats luck it still works..dont surge protectors stop anything getting fried in lightning etc?
<daftykins> lol no
<map> hm
<map> thought they would
<penguin42> map: There are surges and there are OMG it's lightning
<daftykins> electricians have told me in the past that 'surge protecting' power strips are utter lies
<map> yea
<map> so what can u do about lightning to protect electrics
<map> and how did it happen
<penguin42> map: You can do some stuff with gas filled spark gaps but you also have to design it all really well, and still you need to get lucky
<daftykins> have a lightning rod on the property, ideally
<daftykins> if i knew how it happened i... don't think there'd still be anything that could be done
<daftykins> i think we did lose a switch that day too, not sure
<diddledan> arc attack !
<daftykins> i kept bugging about fitting a lightning rod but he's never had anything done
<daftykins> unlikely to happen again though i suspect :)
<penguin42> right.......
<daftykins> hmm?
<diddledan> lightning never strikes the same place twice
<daftykins> it was interesting a telco engineer telling me the other day that they're not allowed to do much work when there's a storm brewing :D
<diddledan> that's a load of bollards, by the way
<daftykins> lol
<diddledan> daftykins, I don't suppose they fancy going up a tower with sparks flying
<penguin42> or holding onto the end of a load of cables going who-knows-where
<diddledan> although theoremetically if you're on the inside you'll be fine
<penguin42> diddledan: Not if you're holding a load of cables going to the outside
<map> daftykins,  im no expert in all this..but lightning can come in and screw up anything electric?
<daftykins> diddledan: even under-road junction boxes etc
<daftykins> map: yep, zap-zap-zap
<diddledan> dang
<diddledan> zzzzzap
<daftykins> Zap Brannigan
<map> lool
<map> i like the text affects;p
<daftykins> you can even hear it if you say it out loud ;D
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1b6ko1I00A
<daftykins> ooooh now i remember
<daftykins> yep it totally murdered a 24 port rackmount netgear gigabit switch
<diddledan> I hope it was a cheapo
<daftykins> i had to put in a tiny spare temporarily to get the essentials going again
<diddledan> and not l2-managed
<daftykins> nah this is a domestic affair, so it was ~Â£200?
<diddledan> few
<map> so whats to stop it hitting you then daftykins ?
<diddledan> few?
<diddledan> phew*
<map> heh
<daftykins> well luckily his secretary was on a cordless phone
<daftykins> she could've had a zap zap zap to the ear otherwise :/
<daftykins> so that phone's base station was toast too
<diddledan> daftykins, wireless charging
<map> would it be bad?
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> people can get burns, sure
<map> i thought inside you were safe as ouses;p
<daftykins> what's really nasty is i had to make his desktop usable the best i could
<diddledan> a lightning up the bottom can kill
 * penguin42 squirms
<daftykins> to start with all USB were dead entirely, so ahead of ordering a USB PCI card, i had to setup his laptop on his main screen RDP'd to his desktop over LAN =|
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> that felt like such an ugly bodge
<daftykins> the laptop couldn't even nearly drive the 2560x1600 30" Dell LCD he has
<penguin42> daftykins: Lucky they hadn't used the USB hub in that
<daftykins> eventually though i was opening up the PC to put the PCI USB card in, decided to pull the PSU's mobo connectors... USB reset \o/
<daftykins> some ports came back, some were dead
<daftykins> penguin42: hah yeah that would've been pricey
<daftykins> so lovely quad core machine that, but a wonky motherboard
<daftykins> it only gets used if i pop in and need to do things, i should take it home really
<daftykins> but i don't need two quad core desktops
<joshua__> Hey guys, am trying to use update-alternatives on precise 12.04 box to point to my packaged version of imagemagick, but it's throwing this error: https://gist.github.com/joshmyers/befde20b91bac2245865
<joshua__> the symlink has been made, /etc/alternatives/animate
<joshua__> but it's not been updated so it's not currently being used....any ideas?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/74hccewvuoznfxg/IMG_20140702_164202.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> that's the other thing i have spare kicking around
<diddledan> speaking of burnt usb - a colleage at work a while back plugged a 12v feed into a usb hub accidentally (same connector type, both on the desk next to each other) - the laptop started smoking
<penguin42> oops
<diddledan> luckily it only killed the usb2 chip
<diddledan> usb3 still works
<daftykins> X|
<daftykins> if it's Dell they'd still replace it under warranty ;D
<diddledan> he's been plagued with that lappy tho - he's currently got a nice dead-centre vertical stripe of 1p width dead screen
<diddledan> px*
<penguin42> ah that's annoying
<diddledan> especially as ubuntu unity has a dock on the left offsetting a maximised window's center point - otherwise it wouldn't be so bad becasue a terminal could be split into 4 without noticing the dead line
<daftykins> dead or lit?
<diddledan> (he mainly uses that screen for teminals cos it's smaller than his external)
<diddledan> it's lit red
<diddledan> I think
<daftykins> ooh-err
<diddledan> might be white
<daftykins> check out this phone i was checking out today :D i was seeing if a newer wireless headset could be plugged into it
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i1ehtkiiddd3wdd/AAA3BeNv8b2akuLTPFjYbND0a?dl=0
<penguin42> 'wireless headset could be plugged into it'
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> "supplied by Guernsey Telecoms" (they've not been called that for over 10 years) aaaand 1991 supply date!
<daftykins> it's not as crazy as it sounds :D
<daftykins> most Plantronics gear seems to work by plugging into the 4P4C sockets on the sides of phones, intercepting the handset
<penguin42> ah yes
<daftykins> they even have crazy handset-auto-lifting devices to take them off the hook O_O
<penguin42> nice
<diddledan> haven't they heard of solid-state circuitry
<diddledan> ?
<map> <diddledan> a lightning up the bottom can kill
<map> * penguin42 squirms
<map> sounds funier than it is
<map> heh
<daftykins> penguin42 wsn't meant to find out what i wired his chair to
<diddledan> mechanical hook seems a bit.. weird
<daftykins> i phoned up Plantronics asking for whether their wireless contraption would work, but the guy kinda just dumbed down the response to a 'not likely'
<daftykins> i wanted to know if i could re-work the 4P4C pinout and pop it into an 8P8C to make it work myself ;D
<diddledan> he wanted to sell you a new one
<daftykins> actually he didn't
<daftykins> because they only sell the headset portion, kinda thing
<daftykins> so there's a wireless base station which needs to plug into a wired desk phone, and the headset itself
<daftykins> but they don't really do the phone bits anymore
<Azelphur> hey folks, how do I do a filesystem check on an ext4 drive?
<diddledan> fsck /dev/drive
<Azelphur> thanks :)
<diddledan> sdxx
<diddledan> if it's your / partition tho you'll need to do it on boot in safemode or by getting it to autocheck at next bootup by creating /forcefsck as an empty file
<Azelphur> also this is a little frustrating, I can't unmount it because its in use, but lsof isn't telling me what's using it
<Azelphur> nah, it's another drive
<diddledan> are you cd'd into a path within the mountpoint in any terminals?
<daftykins> have you got a terminal sat inside its' path?
<diddledan> ^
<daftykins> diddledan: +1
<Azelphur> diddledan: nope
<diddledan> the alternative is some program has the mountpoint or a path within set as it's CWD
<Azelphur> aha, nfs-kernel-server was locking it
<diddledan> if you started any programs from the shell while CDd there it might do that
<Azelphur> google helped :)
<diddledan> or that
<diddledan> google, how dare you be smarter than me!?!
 * diddledan pouts
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> hopefully this drive isn't fucked, getting errors and it has been going into read only
<diddledan> language timothy
<Azelphur> then again, I have had power failures recently
<Azelphur> sorry :x
<diddledan> oh dear
<diddledan> hopefully fsck can fix it
<Azelphur> had a 1TB fail only a few weeks ago too
<diddledan> ouch
<Azelphur> not having much luck with drives recently.
<Azelphur> Error reading block 724570564 (Attempt to read block from filesystem resulted in short read) while getting next inode from scan.  Ignore error<y>?
<Azelphur> that doesn't sound good :<
<daftykins> Azelphur: show us the smartctl -a /dev/sdx before wasting time with file system repairs, sir
<Azelphur> 9 of those errors
<Azelphur> daftykins: yea, I just had that brain wave, gonna do it after fsck finishes
<daftykins> ;_;
<daftykins> and now it's gonna be a long long time, 'til touchdown... </Elton John>
<daftykins> i swear i have some talent for finding dead disks
<Azelphur> I know the 1TB is dead dead, it went click of death :<
<daftykins> <#ubuntu user> so i have this... <dafty> smartctl. she's dead jim.
<Azelphur> haha
<brobostigon> lol.
<Azelphur> daftykins: I broke fsck!
<daftykins> \o/
<brobostigon> fsck kicked its own bucket.
<Azelphur> WARNING: PROGRAMMING BUG IN E2FSCK! OR SOME BONEHEAD (YOU) IS CHECKING A MOUNTED (LIVE) FILESYSTEM.
<daftykins> Azelphur: does Linus know you by name yet? ;) granted this is more GNU...
<Azelphur> It's not mounted, so...programming bug in E2FSCK?
<daftykins> is it actually paused or was that a warning mid-process?
<Azelphur> mid-process
<daftykins> i'd run the smartctl anyway sir, it can talk to the disk controller in parallel to the fsck
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/FkpGx4kB yea, just did
<Azelphur> fsck finished now anyway
<daftykins> oh she's toast
<daftykins> toaster than toast
<daftykins> 1792 reallocated, 16 pending, streaming raw read errors
<Azelphur> :<
<Azelphur> fml
<daftykins> you got much on it?
<Azelphur> daftykins: nah it's just a backup drive
<Azelphur> I rsnapshot a lot, and that's the drive I rsnapshot to
<daftykins> ah ok
<Azelphur> so nothing is gone, just need a new one.
<daftykins> if you dd zero fill it, you can force all the reallocations to complete
<daftykins> the disk might still be toast, but you'd be able to see whether it stops getting worse or not
<Azelphur> daftykins: I see
<daftykins> i keep using a 2TB disk for unimportant storage in my desktop as it only developed 4 bad sectors
<daftykins> dd zero, that reallocated them, then all is happy :D
<Azelphur> daftykins: I'm kinda hoping to pick up an extra drive in black friday anyway, so I'll grab a new one anyway
<Azelphur> and then play with it
<daftykins> ah yes i forgot that sale event has firmly planted itself in the UK now too
<Azelphur> daftykins: oh please, I have Bitcoin ;)
<Azelphur> last time I went black friday shopping I ended up importing about 30TB of drives for me, family and friends.
<daftykins> what does that influence?
<daftykins> lol
<Azelphur> daftykins: can buy stuff from USA :)
<daftykins> remind me to bug you the next array upgrade i do ;)
<Azelphur> daftykins: well I'm hoping for good deals again this year, 2 years ago I bought 3TB drives for Â£70 each
<diddledan> I was curious what Steve Gibson was up to lately - https://www.grc.com/sr/whatitdoes.htm - proof that spinrite is nothing special in the video trying to prove it's special
<daftykins> i've heard it called snake oil
<diddledan> the site hasn't had much of any work done on it stylewise since 2000
<diddledan> although he does now have the menu on the right-hand side in non-mobile-friendly dimensions
<zmoylan-pi> make vague promises and include buzz words, stanard business model since they invented the plough probably
<daftykins> =]
<awilkins> Spinrite? Total horse manure, isn't it?
<daftykins> i'd think so
<daftykins> nothing ddrescue probably doesn't do
<daftykins> iirc he tries to claim it is a great recovery tool because it 'tries in many ways' to read data on given sectors etc
<diddledan> he promotes it as "preventative maintenance" because "hard drives have data protection built-in"
<awilkins> How many ways other than "telling the drive to read that sector" can you do?
<daftykins> by avoiding using the disk's abstraction mechanisms apparently
<awilkins> Wouldn't that require rewriting the firmware of the drive... and using your own abstraction mechanism?
<daftykins> meh, i'm not defending the guy :>
<penguin42> I don't think there's any other way of reading it via the standard IDE interface
<awilkins> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!original/comp.dcom.xdsl/Vm2xVSu6prk/jpfCIyPj7poJ
<daftykins> ATA? :(
<daftykins> lol he attempted to re-use the production list of bad sectors
<daftykins> that sounds terrible
<penguin42> yeh, very bad move
<ali1234> in fact there are some tricks you can use
<ali1234> for spinning disks anyway
<ali1234> the blocks you read directly before the bad one can affect whether it is readable or not
<daftykins> i'm sure there was some stuff about reading backwards to a spot, vs. forwards or some jazz
<ali1234> basically. bit more complicated though, since the surface is 2 dimensional
<penguin42> which doesn't really make that much sense assuming it's rotating and you're reading stuff off as it spins
<penguin42> I certainly think it's worth regularly reading the whole disk to give the drive a chance to find corectable errors; but I don't know how real it is
<ali1234> disks do that on their own
<daftykins> i know my 3ware arrays do an auto verify every friday night :D
<daftykins> 'cause i get an email!
<ali1234> drive firmware runs smart self tests at regular intervals - that means attempting to read each block
<ali1234> it's done during idle time of course, so you won't notice
<ali1234> you can also manually schedule such a test with smartctl
<daftykins> i sincerely doubt any disk is testing every single one 0o
<ali1234> tha's exactly what they do
<daftykins> if that were true, they'd have a chance to reallocate prior to write operations uncovering them, slowing things down as they do so
<ali1234> reallocating destroys data, which is why reallocation only happens on write
<diddledan> does anyone have any more-than-meh recommendations for an openwrt router?
<daftykins> how about just a good one? :>
<diddledan> I'm in the market for getting a new router but I want to openwrt it, so was just testing the water of what people preferred/had good experience with
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> i think that newest model Linksys ended up being a disappointment :(
<zmoylan-pi> isn't that what linksys specialise in' selling disappointments :-)
<shauno> I think they've gone full meta
<shauno> linksys itself is now the disappointment that companies sell to each other
<diddledan> yeah, cisco no longer love linksys - I lost track of who got it after that
<shauno> I think it's belkin this week, but I might be out of date on that too
<daftykins> hah, always detested Belkin gear
<daftykins> the one thing i trusted them for though... patch leads ;)
<shauno> everyone has their happy accidents.  like msft actually make some respectable mice
<zmoylan-pi> i like belkin.  sufficently generic they don't try to be clever with just enough brand name that they want the hardware to work and not fail every 5 minutes.  ymmv
<zmoylan-pi> microsoft the software company make great hardware while apple the hardware company does great software.  says a lot about the world that :-D
<daftykins> specialise in the thing you don't want to be good at! hey wait :(
<zmoylan-pi> some people say i'm cynical but i say they haven't watched the i.t. industry since mid 80s :-)
<penguin42> find me a good IT guy who isn't cynical
<penguin42> cynical, bitter, twisted....
<diddledan> if it actually worked, I'd be happy to stay with the router I've got - but the giganet switch doesn't do packets
<zmoylan-pi> the law of odds sugests there's one person who's worked in industry forever and never had piece of hardware fail.  _ever_
<diddledan> the 10/100 does fine tho
<diddledan> seriously? the bt home hub has openwrt target?
<shauno> it sounds like you just want a router :)
<shauno> er
<shauno> switch
<shauno> damnit
<ali1234> you probably won't find one where the ADSL works
<diddledan> shauno, I need the router to be able to output more than 100Mbit
<shauno> no you don't :)
<shauno> (also, aside; apple's a software company ;)
<diddledan> so a giganet switch doens't help because the router only has 100Mbit
<daftykins> if i wanted to burn money i'd use my huawei as the VDSL2+ modem and get a router with a wired WAN port
<shauno> I'm still using two routers.  it's pretty messed up :)
<daftykins> you break the internets
<shauno> what doesn't break them only makes them stranger :)
<daftykins> http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/11/italian-courts-acquits-seismologists-convicted-of-manslaughter/
<daftykins> ugh
<shauno> "Each scientist had been sentenced to six years in prison along with a government official. "
<shauno> prison is bad enough, but being imprisoned with a govt official?  is that not 'cruel and unusual' ?
<penguin42> haha
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> "you must also talk politics"
<daftykins> noooooooooooooooooooooo!
<daftykins> g'night everyone
<zmoylan-pi> italy: jailing scientists since gallileo...
<shauno> daftykins: really?  it's still yesterday!
<zmoylan-pi> or yesterdays tomorrow
<daftykins> i know :( i stayed up all night and worked 'til 3pm
<daftykins> then slept 'til 7pm
<daftykins> so now is sleep part 2, the sleepening
<shauno> nn
<zmoylan-pi> sleep well
<daftykins> ty!
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-11
<diddledan> the whole net neutrality thing in the US at the moment - what a load of morons!
<diddledan> the constitution probably could be interpreted to dictate that all internet traffic in the US be neutrally treated
<diddledan> all men are created equal and all that jazz
<diddledan> gotta love this one: https://twitter.com/SenTedCruz/status/531834493922189313
<diddledan> because obamacare is obviously bad
<shauno> he's not far off though
<shauno> 'obamacare' is obviously bad.  they took a concept that, on the face of it, seems perfectly sensible.  and then shoe-horned it into their existing dsyfunction
<shauno> they didn't actually fix the dysfunction, just tried to force everyone to participate in it
<shauno> my worry with net neutrality is that they'll do the same.  they'll label it a utility so that it earns 'common carrier' status
<shauno> and in the process it'll become elligible for all the existing ways the govt gets to interfere with utilities
<shauno> they have a track record of taking "the right idea" and finding the worst possible implementation.  so even when they sound like they're catching on, I still worry
<penguin42> shauno: Things like the no traffic shaping, seems like a bad idea if it means they can't prioritize things like low latency traffic over bulk
<map> hey
<MooDoo> morning all
<map> morning
<map> another nightmare night MooDoo ;p
<map> ive just moved country doing same thing
<MooDoo> map: why what's going on?
<map> drinking and smoking:(
<map> i smoked when i was out in UK
<map> now its so cheap im smoking 20 a day
<MooDoo> well stop it :)
<map> easier said than done
<map> im worried drinking and smokiing will kill me
<map> i came here to get away from it all
<map> but as usual i cant
<MooDoo> e-cig?
<map> never tried
<map> i wasnt smoking so much before
<map> but its so cheap here
<map> i was smoking like 10 on nights oiut
<map> now im back to my old ways 20 a day
<MooDoo> maybe try ecig or something, then again i've never smoked so what do I know
<map> i smoked for 12 years
<map> then quit
<map> smoked a bit on and off in stoke
<map> now im smoking everyday in gib
<map> ugh
<map> not looking forward to my flight home
<map> gotta get from Heathrow -> Kensington
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Origami Day! \o/
<zmoylan-pi> i fold and go home
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, ba-dum, tsch!
<zmoylan-pi> tip your waitress, try the veal
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, I prefer my waitresses upright, thanks. ;)
 * davmor2 fold JamesTait into an envelope and sends him to south africa, cheapest flight you'll ever have ;)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<lornajane> morning bigcalm
<popey> pip pip
<lornajane> hey popey :)
<bigcalm> Oh, hey there lornajane :)
<popey> Yo!
 * popey is using gnuplot for the first time
<bigcalm> Ho ho and a bottle of rum
<lornajane> bigcalm: don't look now, I'm completely reinstalling my laptop before I start my new job :)
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> Ha#
<zmoylan-pi> new distro or just flushing the chaff?
<JamesTait> davmor2, warmer there, too. ;)
<bigcalm> lornajane: as long as you have virtual box and vagrant working, it doesn't matter what you're running :)
<lornajane> zmoylan-pi: new hard drive.  This currently has a spindle disk in it that's been giving me errors for months, and it's running 13.10
<bigcalm> A working system does help though
<lornajane> so, big new SSD, from-scratch ubuntu install <-- the plan
<bigcalm> A good plan that should just work (TM)
<lornajane> bigcalm: yeah this one is working but has been neglected.  The ubuntu release cycle fits absolutely horribly against conference seasons
<zmoylan-pi> using linux has given me a new problem.  with windows no install lasted more than 6 months, with linux i have systems that have been upgraded but not wiped for a few years.  odd things have been tested and forgotten on them which can make them behave /oddly/ :-)
<davmor2> JamesTait: And you know people there, I was sending you there to be evil it was a nice thing I was doing :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, you're just a big softie, really. :-P
<lornajane> I'm currently copying the windows partitions over to the new disks, they're the thing I'm most worried about
<zmoylan-pi> hopefully plan means that the backups are both fresh and tested...
<lornajane> zmoylan-pi: yep
<popey> lornajane: new job = new contract or new permie thing?
<popey> (if you dont mind me asking)
<lornajane> popey: part time, permanent, remote.  I'll be working with bigcalm at siftware from Monday
<popey> Oh!
<lornajane> about 3 days a week though, to fit in some other training/consulting and community stuff
<popey> Congrats and commiserations!
<lornajane> this machine hasn't been from-scratch reinstalled in about 18 months and it's always nightmarish just for the sheer volume of toolchains that I have
<lornajane> I love being polyglot but I'm not right excited about getting it all working again :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> popey: some how I feel involved in the commiserations bit
<popey> haha
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<popey> i kid
<bigcalm> :P
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
<lornajane> bigcalm: I am confident we can all survive this.  You will probably want to kill me at some point but luckily it's a remote company ;)
<bigcalm> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> we need a deity of distro installs to make offerings too...
<bigcalm> lornajane: I'm going to be in the office 2-3 days a week. Hopefully see you there occasionally. As I have a standing desk at home, it's going to feel lazy to be back in an office chair there though
<zmoylan-pi> dig a hole in floor... :-p
<lornajane> bigcalm: I expect to be in the office approximately monthly so will definitely see you
<bigcalm> Nice
 * popey glares at gnuplot
<popey> plot "/tmp/tmp.h64nvRQ5QM" using 1:2
<popey> "/tmp/tmp.cREQfnSCeg", line 13: Bad format character
<popey> what is wrong with that plot line?
<zmoylan-pi> expecting something after the /'
<zmoylan-pi> expecting something after the /'s
<zmoylan-pi> ?
 * popey fiddles some more
<SuperMatt> https://twitter.com/sprmtt/status/532118829741408256/photo/1 - oh customers!
<bigcalm> Bwuhaha
 * popey makes notes not to let SuperMatt near his boxes
<SuperMatt> hey, I covered everything that's not common knowledge
<bigcalm> Looking at devices connected to my router, I can see a device that doesn't have a host name (it's just "?"). Going to the allocated IP address I get the "Apache2 Debian Default Page" page. I can't find a Debian VM running on any of my machines. How might I track this one down?
<zmoylan-pi> emp? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> nmap and see what else is there, sometimes it'll list an os
<diplo> nmap, see what ports are open and try and connect
<diplo> :D
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<bigcalm> I just SSHd to the IP address. It's my laptop connecting on wifi as well as eth0
<bigcalm> Grr
<shauno> heh
<zmoylan-pi> or... your alternate universe self connecting to your network to see waht you're up to :-)
 * bigcalm disables wifi
<lornajane> I have absolutely no idea what's on our network, don't think I could even draw the wired topology accurately
<lornajane> this is what happens when you marry your sysadmin
<czajkowski> lornajane: morning
<lornajane> hi czajkowski
<czajkowski> I know my server room downstairs in the basement is well a a pile of cables everywhere.  downside to geek men who like gadgets and aren't tidy
<czajkowski> lornajane: nice blog post this morning  you mentioned
<czajkowski> the don't be a dick when contributing
<czajkowski> hmmm may have in fact killed my laptop it no longer recognises I have a battery - only works when it's plugged in . feck
<lornajane> yeah, I loved this post.  To be fair, I love most of what snipe writes but I've been saving this one for linktuesday
<bigcalm> czajkowski: do you mean that the indicator only shows up when it's plugged in, or that the laptop doesn't work when it's not plugged into the mains?
 * lornajane now has a non-booting machine that won't recognise the bootable USB
<czajkowski> bigcalm: the latter
<bigcalm> czajkowski: ouch
<czajkowski> it was working fine yesterday and no issue
<zmoylan-pi> having a mass of untidy cables is kerplunk security where trying to add or move something will trigger instantly noticeable errors :-p
<czajkowski> may have to push for new laptop sooner
<czajkowski> just know if I do that they are gonna give me a mac and I will in fact curl up and cry
<zmoylan-pi> shutdown, remove the battery and reinstall to be sure?
<czajkowski> it's an ultra book cant even unpplug the battery easily
<czajkowski> and also day 5 of new job kinda need it to work
<czajkowski> feck
<lornajane> okay livecd booting now, definitely going in the right direction
<lornajane> czajkowski: what's the new job?
<bigcalm> czajkowski: does that mean that Matt has moved to the Mac side?
<czajkowski> lornajane: developer community manager at couchbase
<czajkowski> bigcalm: yup
<zmoylan-pi> so much politer than cat herder :-p
<bigcalm> Oh my
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: I get paid to talk to geeks
<lornajane> czajkowski: nice!  Have fun with that :)
<czajkowski> I get paid to talk - not like I've a problem in that area
<bigcalm> Heh
<czajkowski> lornajane: so far so good. lot to learn and pick up
<czajkowski> but enjoying it
<czajkowski> this week I need to be in london for 3 days. and need to learn at the same time so may start pulling hair out soon if laptop doesn't behave
<christel> tbf you are already pretty skilled at talking so i wouldn't worry about there being a lot to learn ;)
 * czajkowski hugs christel how's you darling 
<christel> not too shabby! thyself? :)
<czajkowski> not bad
<lornajane> that's either hilarious or embarrassing.  Just realised that I don't have access to my password manager from Windows :)
<bigcalm> Boss man has insisted that we move from Keepass to 1Password as he's now a Mac user. It doesn't look very good to me
<lornajane> does that work on your platform, bigcalm?
<davmor2> bigcalm: Ha Ha! ;)  does keepass not work on mac then?
<bigcalm> lornajane: windows version runs in wine on Ubuntu 14.04
<bigcalm> davmor2: not very well it would seem
<lornajane> yeah I can't point at a windows interface.  This is going to be fun
<foobarry> keepass is on mac too
<foobarry> keepassX
<bigcalm> lornajane: I use wine for 1Password and SQLyog. Everything else I've managed to get working natively
<shauno> there's a third-party 'macpass' too, which is easier than messing around with mono
<foobarry> http://www.keepassx.org/downloads
<bigcalm> lornajane: the TeamWork Timer app took a little symlinking fun to get it working in Ubuntu, but it does work
<MooDoo> bloomin nickserv
<davmor2> MooDoo: I blame the user trying to break it, sounds a far more like cause of the problem to me ;)
<bigcalm> lornajane: the only windows thing that I haven't got working in Linux is a VPN for one of our clients. For that I'm currently using a windows VM from modern.ie. I really hope the hosting company sorts out Linux access for me soon
<bigcalm> lornajane: and it's a project that you'll be working on with me, so they really need to get it sorted :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i just keep getting kicked about :(
<bigcalm> Anybody know how to route traffic for selected IP addresses via a VM?
<davmor2> MooDoo: which op did you upset with your witty banter ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I bet it's all this Fedora talk on facebook ;)
<czajkowski> hmmm is there any way I can make my machine see my battery
<czajkowski> currently when I click on battery status is saying 00:00 to charge
<czajkowski> s it's like it doesn't see it has a battery any more
<davmor2> czajkowski: plug the battery into the machine?
<bigcalm> czajkowski: maybe the firmware on the battery itself is fried
<czajkowski> bigcalm: I'm thinking that but wondering what update would do that
<czajkowski> davmor2: it's plugged in smartie
<bigcalm> czajkowski: try booting from a livecd and see if it works then
<MooDoo> davmor2: havn't run FEdora on my laptop in a couple of weeks so it can't be that
<czajkowski> oh nt a bad idea
 * bigcalm frames it and puts on a wall
<bigcalm> I think we've just helped ddos gnome.com
<bigcalm> Oh, and the freenode blog
<christel> \o/
<bigcalm> gnome.com worked eventually for me and I made a donation
<christel> good lad!
<SuperMatt> is this about the groupon name scandal?
<bigcalm> The hint is in the URLs
<Myrtti> yup
<czajkowski> think the folks hosting gnome.org may want to do something with their servers ;)
<czajkowski> I'd like to know how much they've already raised as well
<czajkowski> given it's a foundation it does have funds for this type of issue and to run the foundation
<Myrtti> I thought this year the Women's Outreach had depleted their funds
<popey> yh
<popey> bigcalm: surely you mean gnome.org?
<bigcalm> popey: I do, I suck
<czajkowski> wel it's a foundation so should have public accounts I think
<czajkowski> not saying it's not a worthy cause
<czajkowski> but equally this much exposure and people donating just want to make sure it's  for the actual cause in the long run
<ali1234> it says right on the donation page that anything left over will be used "to improve gnome"
<czajkowski> grr viber on desktop has stopped :(
<popey> exactly.
<ali1234> so in other words whatever they feel like
<ali1234> and yes they do have public accounts
<foobarry> viber sounds too much like tindr and grinr
<czajkowski> it works though and useful when travelling
<czajkowski> as whatspp can be blocked on hotels wifi in some places
 * popey chuckles at "Pownce"
<popey> which used to exist, dunno if it still does
<MooDoo> shutdown in 2008
<foobarry> viber is like whatsapp?
<popey> one of the many chat apps
<foobarry> i did a google hangouts call by accident the other day. the voice quality was far superior to stnadard mobile call
 * popey found the last time pownce was mentioned here...
<popey> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/2008/01/05/%23ubuntu-uk.html
<popey> also
<popey> * MooDoo runs 2gb and that's more than enough
<popey> â»
<ali1234> yeah, who could have predicted all the amazing innovations that would happen, requiring more than 2gb?
<ali1234> innovations such as...........
<popey> here it comes..
<ali1234> well i'll let you know if i think of any
<bigcalm> I can haz hot coffee!
<bigcalm> Ow, hot
<MooDoo> jeez
<popey> I fought GNU Plot, and I won! http://popey.mooo.com/mirror/clicks/graph.png
<ali1234> graph makes no sense
<ali1234> is it per day?
<penguin42> popey: Congratulations
<popey> is the title at the top not clear?
<ali1234> no
<popey> how so?
<ali1234> because you have a continuous variable on the x axis and a discrete variable on the y axis
<MooDoo> looks clear enough to me
<ali1234> pick a time and date from the bottom and read off a value. the result makes no sense
<ali1234> y axis need sto be "click per <time period>"
<popey> y is number of clicks in the store on that day
<ali1234> right, and it doesn't say that
<popey> clicks in store by date, clicks on left, date at bottom
<ali1234> a date isn't a time period
<popey> i didnt say it wa, you did
<ali1234> no, i said that the graph doesn't specify a time period, and it doesn't
<popey> I don't understand how it's not clear, sorry.
<penguin42> popey: It's a confusion between whether the Y access value represents the total clicks upto the point on the X axis, or is the number of clicks on a particular day
<penguin42> access? axis!
<penguin42> heck, my brain really does think in sound
<ali1234> it could also represent clicks per hour, minute, second, week, month...
<popey> so if the label on x says "Total Clicks" that would clear it up?
<ali1234> however, none of these are equivalent to "clicks"
<ali1234> no, because then it would just be plain wrong instead of just ambiguous
<ali1234> the y axis should be labelled "clicks per day"
<popey> i dont think click means what you think it means
<popey> no, it shouldn't
<popey> its the number of click packages in the store
<popey> not clicks on mouse buttons
<foobarry> Cumulative chart of clicks packages in store
<ali1234> so it is the total?
<popey> yes
<foobarry> ah
<ali1234> okay, then it's correct
<popey> \o/
<popey> I'm glad we had this time together. I will cherish it.
<ali1234> but you should write "click packages" in order to avoid confusion
<popey> kk, will do
<ali1234> because most people seeing that graph would just think mouse clicks
<penguin42> popey: I've been playing with web based graph packages lately; grafana in particular
<popey> i see
<popey> refresh
<popey> fixed?
<penguin42> popey: it's the type of thing that lets you zoom into areas and the like; they do look a bit prettier but also require a bit more setup
<penguin42> popey: You could say click packages instead of clicks
<popey> ok
<popey> i say that at the top
<popey> but ok
<ali1234> or if you don't wwant to write "click packages" (like because style guide says always call them "clicks" you could say "clicks available"
<ali1234> but yeah, that is much clearer
<foobarry> mathematica is nice for this stuff
<foobarry> but non free
<popey> Thanks for the help chaps!
<ali1234> next thing to do is add labels for events like app showdown
<popey> yeah, i also want to split off scopes from apps
<popey> and canonical vs community
<willcooke> ali1234, got my minimus this morning, had to make a very minor change to your code to get it to compile,  seems like LUFA's "VERSION_BCD" has gone from expecting (1.00) to (1,0,0)
 * willcooke knows nothing about C though
<willcooke> seemed to work
<ali1234> willcooke: yes, LUFA changes quite often
<willcooke> fun!
<ali1234> also, you know that raspberry pi has SPI right? you don't have to bitbang
<ali1234> SPI is bitbanging done in hardware
<willcooke> ali1234, for the 433 rxer?  It's not SPI is it?
<ali1234> yes
<willcooke> txer
<ali1234> the avr version uses the SPI port to generate the bitstream
<willcooke> humm
<ali1234> with SPI, instead of turning the pin on and off manually, you just tell it the frequency and hand it 8 bits at a time
<ali1234> and it turns on and off for you in hardware
<ali1234> this is far more power efficient and greatly simplifies the code
<willcooke> oh!  wow!
<ali1234> it interrupts when it's finished
<willcooke> I'll read up
<ali1234> that might be a problem on a not-real-time OS like linux
<ali1234> typically there's a small FIFO to prevent underrun
<willcooke> I'm looking at your AVR main.c now...
<willcooke> I see the high, low, float and sync defined
<willcooke> as a bit stream
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> what size drive is the best Â£/TB atm?
<Azelphur> I'm guessing 3, maybe 4?
<willcooke> ali1234, how does it know how long a "on" is?
<ali1234> the protocol encodes 1 as long on, short off, and 0 as short on, long off
<ali1234> this is equivalent to 1110 and 1000 respectively
<willcooke> ahhh
<willcooke> ali1234, so is the pulse length controller by the clock speed on the avr?
<foobarry> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/winter-sports/30005830
<foobarry> wow. so much corruption
<ali1234> willcooke: indirectly, yes, there are some regsters which set a divider
<ali1234> lines 57-62
<willcooke> ah, kk
<ali1234> you'll have to read the datasheet to find out what they mean, because i can't remember
<willcooke> ali1234, sure thing, I'll do that - thanks
<ali1234> i'm not using the normal SPI port, i'm using the serial port in M-SPI mode, so that i can use the uart fifo
<willcooke> :) clever
 * willcooke needs to log out and back in to get himself in the right groups
<bigcalm> I hate that
<bigcalm> Why do we still have to do it?
<ali1234> you don't, you can use newgroup
<popey> Year of the linux desktop
<willcooke> how about getting udev to re-read the rules?  Could I sighup udev?
<Dave2> I installed Arch last night, it has a very user-friendly process
<ali1234> no, because you still won't be in the right groups unless you run newgroup
<ali1234> you make udev reload the rules by doing udevadm --control reload
<ali1234> (with sudo)
<Dave2> Certainly is the top candidate for being the distro to push linux to the mainstream
<ali1234> if you just added the minimus rule to let you reprogram it without root you need to do that or reboot as well as getting into the correct group
<willcooke> need to work out how to flash the thing now
<ali1234> "make flash"
<willcooke> ali1234, you've thought of everything :)
<ali1234> yes.
 * willcooke installs dfu-programmer
<ali1234> i even have a default template project from which i can fork when i need to write something new: https://github.com/ali1234/lufa-template
<willcooke> ali1234, yay!  it's flashed and the smjctrl app doesnt' complain about not being able to see the device - so I think it's just some light soldering and I'm away
<willcooke> ali1234, thanks for the help, much appreciated
<ali1234> some day i want to rewrite this so it can send arbitrary bitstreams/bitrates
<ali1234> then you could define the protocol on PC side, and be able to control much more devices...
<willcooke> ha, nice
<lornajane> yay, new ubuntu installed, took about 15 mins.  Now I spend 2 hours swearing at it and turning off all the orange/pretty malarkey
<popey> "yay"
<foobarry> geri halliwell is marrying christian horner of red bull :-|
<SuperMatt> this is a little off topic ;
<Seeker`> SuperMatt: lots of what goes on here is
<SuperMatt> yeah, I know
<SuperMatt> I just thought we were a little immune to the idea of celebrity goss
<foobarry> i am , but i like f1
<foobarry> and i thought CH was more discerning man ;)
<foobarry> just remined me of when the geek chooses the dolly bird on "take me out" instead of the amy ferrer fowler that he would be a great match for
<foobarry> does anyone else run cron jobs on odd days only? does "5    10 1-31/2  *  * root /root/script.sh" look ok?
<shauno> should work, just beware it won't actually be "every 2 days"
<foobarry> tru dat
<foobarry> not sure there is a better soln
<shauno> (eg, it'll run on the 31st and the 1st, not 2 days apart)
<diddledan> my voice is my passport, verify me
<willcooke> are you interested in astronomy?
<diddledan> I've got shares in setec astronomy
<willcooke> :)
<zmoylan-pi> open the pod bay doors please hal
<zmoylan-pi> i loved that tv show just for using scifi movies as voice passwords...
<foobarry> can anyone recommend a nice implementation of a nice expanding menu for a web page?
<foobarry> css, javascript, whatever
<diplo> If you want easy to use, could just use bootstrap
<Myrtti> I was going to say
<diplo> http://getbootstrap.com/components/#alerts
<diplo> bah
<diplo> http://getbootstrap.com/components/#dropdowns
<foobarry> nice. i'm after expandable menu rather than dropdowns, for a side bar tree menu ..maybe they have something
<diplo> Can do it for side as well
<foobarry> i see
<foobarry> thsnl~kd
<foobarry> thanks
<diplo> http://www.bootply.com/uBoT3zP1P2
<foobarry> ok i like this one
<foobarry> where's that from?
<diplo> Bootstrap
<diddledan> that's interesting - the same script I use for development of web stuffs runs twice as fast on ubuntu as it does on os x
<diddledan> all it is, is a load of rsyncs and some sass/compass stuff
<diplo> http://www.jeffmould.com/2013/12/15/create-twitter-bootstrap-vertical-drop-menu/
<shauno> diddledan: I'd suspect rsync there, osx's version is from 2006
<diddledan> wow
<shauno> same reason they canned samba.  they won't touch gplv3
<MartijnVdS> thanks, Ob^H^HStallman
<zmoylan-pi> they're free to contribute, gpl v3 doesn't hold them back
<foobarry> diplo: bit confused about where the actual code is to use :S
<knightwise> Mornin peeps
<knightwise> clear
<knightwise> mornin peeps
<knightwise> hey guys
<zmoylan-pi> people are probably involved in evening commute now
<knightwise> I feel their pain.
<zmoylan-pi> full contact hand to hand combat no prisoners in sodding rain
<knightwise> Listened to the last Ubuntu-uk podcast
<diddledan> oooh that was a weird bug to squish - amazon server with no ssh access
<diddledan> turns out No != no
<knightwise> very nicely surprised about the underwhelmed response to 14.10
<knightwise> it means Ubuntu is growing up
<camason> I... didn't even realise it was out
<Myrtti> it's past third thursday of October
<knightwise> great discussion on the podcast. Made me think that Ubuntu is indeed becoming very mature
<camason> we have it on every device here at the office. Solid as a rock
<knightwise> Been using it for my freelance company now for almost a year (fulltime)
<knightwise> and i'm passed the "'gotta try the latest" thing.
<directhex> i'm scared to upgrade, tbh
<knightwise> even elementary (12.04) runs great on my Macbook air
<knightwise> i'm hoppin LTS's
<camason> not even the 'strange' OS any more. We have Steam installed on most of them. We have a nice mix of PCs and Macs and it all works nicely together
<knightwise> indeed :)
<knightwise> now all we need is an X86 tablet we can run it on (working on my Surface 1 at the moment, wish it could run Ubuntu :) )
<camason> I think Android ubiquity has a lot to do with the general acceptance of 'other' platforms now
<directhex> nope
<directhex> it has lots to do with samsung's $20bn marketing budget
<camason> that doesn't really contradict what I said
<knightwise> True.. .but what Samsung does with android is abismal
<knightwise> Love my note 3 , but hate the samsung skin
<zmoylan-pi> samsung and software never ends well
<knightwise> thinking about a oneplus or a Nexus 6 for my next phone.
<camason> We have this Samsung Note 10.1 2014 edition. Speedy as hell, nice and high res.... but the Samsung OS additions... ugh D:==
<directhex> people have android because the saleschimp in the phone store sold them on android
<directhex> they sold them on android due to the commission samsung pay, from their marketing budget
<knightwise> whats the alternative ? An iPhone ? (no thanx)
<camason> directhex or just the fact that there are lots of Android devices available that have always been much cheaper than the Apple alternative
<knightwise> I dont know .. but do you guys think that Ubuntu phone/touch stands a chance ?
<camason> No :/
<popey> of course â»
<knightwise> popey you are a tad biased :p
<knightwise> but, look at firefox os , no big impact there (yet)
<knightwise> and even windows phone has a hard time getting more traction.
<popey> define "big"
<czajkowski> knightwise: limited counteries to get it
<popey> its only been out a while
<camason> just look at Firefox itself. Interesting story there
<popey> you can't beat android in under a year
<zmoylan-pi> i think mobiles have moved beyond os.  if an ubuntu phone does make it to for sale it will be able to acess a lot of apps.  and that interests a fair few people
<knightwise> camason firefox is starting to behave like IE4.5 on my pc
<camason> lol
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi your right on that account
<knightwise> its true ! its becoming the jabbah the hut of the browser family
<Azelphur> I think the only one that stands a hope so far is sailfish
<popey> thats one reason we're focussed on scopes and not so much on apps
<Azelphur> *controversial opinion*
<zmoylan-pi> i have a nokia feature phone as i got sick of phones with battery lives that needed topping up during the day
<knightwise> Firefox : Looks like chrome, eats ram like IE
<zmoylan-pi> i would love to see firefox os do well.  but i also want a phone with a qwerty keyboard (not a blackberry)
<shauno> are there any numbers for ffOS?
<camason> Thing is, the biggest manufacturers of devices are now comitted to their OS choices. It would take something seismic to shift over to Ubuntu, which would launch with a tiny app selection for comparison (IMO)
<camason> I'd love to see it, but I doubt it will happen. Interestingly, I have a phone on my desk - the Nokia N900. Ran 'Maemo', a Debian-based OS iirc
<camason> was touted as being able to run almost any linux app, so no redevelopment needed. But it fell very flat.
<popey> camason: seen the Jolla keyboard?
<popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla
<camason> ah nice - looks like the N900's big brother with that thing on :)
<zmoylan-pi> ffos is doing well where it is sold. 20%+ i think in south america.  it's just they are avoiding eu and usa and concentrating on other markets so we don't see it
<knightwise> I miss my Treo 750 :)
<camason> off home - night
<ali1234> Azelphur: that is not really a very controversial opinion
<Azelphur> ali1234: apparently not
<zmoylan-pi> it needs to get a lot more attention before it even gets on anyones radar
<diddledan> oh dear, gnome needs our monies! http://www.linuxtoday.com/it_management/gnome-starts-campaign-to-protect-its-trademarks.html
 * brobostigon tries to count how much money he would have earnt, for everytime that news has been mentioned.
<zmoylan-pi> groupon seems to be a bit silly.  well sillier.  well seeking attention
<diddledan> first time I've seen it
<zmoylan-pi> you're probably just tuning out all gnome news since 3.0 :-p
<diddledan> in other news: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2LOukDIgAA4HYk.jpg
<penguin42> diddledan: Oh dear, that is a little fluffball
<zmoylan-pi> our current new feral kitten turning up for food.  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9j38UmSYjCldFhIcTlpRndFNzA/view?usp=sharing
<Myrtti> wittle tongue :-Ã¾
<zmoylan-pi> kittens are +10 adorable but the tongue makes it extra soppy :-)
<diddledan> I don't even! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2NGqI6FqeQ
<diddledan> you can stop after the bars
<diddledan> it was a shorter video on facebook
<zmoylan-pi> i worry about the kids in the olympics.  by the time they hit 30 many of them seem to have diseases you usually only see in the joints of those in 70s and 80s
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Is it any worse than kids do anyworse with sports?
<Myrtti> aw that wittle pawwwww
<zmoylan-pi> cute fluffy paw that in a millisecond can switch to can razor ripping claws
<diddledan> today is the birthday of an awesome person - james bond. apparently it's also my sister's birthday
 * zmoylan-pi wonders which diddledan remembers first...
<diddledan> http://new.livestream.com/accounts/362/events/3544091 European Space Agency livestream
<diddledan> ... landing on a comet - rosetta/philae
<zmoylan-pi> hope they make it
<zmoylan-pi> is it landing or docking considering the gravity?
<shauno> I think 'capture' would be closest
<shauno> okay, it boggles my mind when they give some times as UTC, some as CET, and some as both
<shauno> just pick one.
<zmoylan-pi> throw in a few metric and imperial measurements and we'll do a beagle
<shauno> I don't do imperial, I'm not that old :)
<diddledan> lol @ beagle
<diddledan> that was just a farse
<diddledan> farce
<zmoylan-pi> it was a bargin basement budget mission, if it had of worked it would have been epic
<diddledan> oh yeah, I wish it had worked considering the epicness of it
<diddledan> an irishman
<diddledan> ?
<diddledan> or just a "european"
<willcooke> ali1234, it works!  Thanks for your help!
<foobarry> anyone have powerline adapters?
<foobarry> just testing them. getting 100mb/s on 1gb/s network
<foobarry> argh
<foobarry> sorrry
<daftykins> that's pretty poor, which models?
<ali1234> yes i do
<foobarry> nope, just realised one i/face is at 100mb
<foobarry> unless ethtool lying
<daftykins> ah :D
<ali1234> you are lucky to get 100mb
<daftykins> isn't ethtool depricated 0o
<daftykins> or deprecated, spelling dependant :D
<foobarry> [ 2136.742416] e1000e: eth0 NIC Link is Up 100 Mbps Full Duplex, Flow Control: Rx/Tx
<ali1234> ifconfig is deprecated, nobody cares though
<foobarry> maybe adsl router is 100mb
<ali1234> quite possibly
<ali1234> the powerline links probably only doing about 20mb anyway
<foobarry> i just tested with 2g file and netcat
<foobarry> got 90mb/s
<ali1234> in the same room?
<diddledan> MB or Mb?
<foobarry> Mb
<diddledan> so your 2g file - is that Gb or GB?
<foobarry> 2GB
<daftykins> lol such notation fail
<diddledan> and you took care of the differentiation?
<foobarry> need to eliminate the 100mb switch
<daftykins> c'mon guys express your units properly :P
<foobarry> draws a line
<foobarry> -------------
<zmoylan-pi> is that a metric line or an imperial line? :-p
<popey> foobarry: yes, i have powerline things
<diddledan> I only ask because 90MB/s is approximately 1Gb/s
<popey> have had them on my network for years
<daftykins> dead-disk-dafty is at it again, user with two dead disks called out in #ubuntu
<foobarry> no fires?
 * popey iperfs
<diddledan> daftykins, be honest, you seek them out
<popey> [  3]  0.0-10.1 sec  54.2 MBytes  45.1 Mbits/sec
<daftykins> yes :(
<daftykins> popey: with what TCP window size? :>
<popey> the default
<popey> TCP window size: 85.0 KByte (default)
<diddledan> and MTU? :-p
<diddledan> teehee
 * diddledan giggles like a girlie
<ali1234> i have a quite complex powerline setup with 4 adapters, one of which is also a wifi access point
<ali1234> getting them all to talk to each other was a pain
<diddledan> how does one "turn on" jumbo frames?
 * diddledan wanders off towards googlie
<ali1234> the network would split in various ways
<daftykins> hmm they must've packaged up iperf sanely
<ali1234> diddledan: my nas has an option to turn on jumbo frames, i haven't seen it in any other devices
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> ifconfig eth0 mtu 9000
<foobarry> but ifconfig em1 mtu 9000 fails
<foobarry> ok, direct i get 177mb/s
<diddledan> em1?
<daftykins> funky interface names for funky interfaces
<penguin42> it's stuff where it's named by the bios
<penguin42> it's supposed to be a bit more predictable on any one machine
<foobarry> but it ends up less predictable
<daftykins> seems to just anger people expecting eth#
<foobarry> its annoying
<foobarry> and ifconfig aint working with it
<daftykins> seen quite a lot of 'rename' requests in #ubuntu among other places
<penguin42> yeh but when you've got a machine with 9 ethers on you start to appreciate it
<foobarry> i still don't
<diddledan> I thought udev was supposed to name ethernet devices consistently?!
<foobarry> consistent = where they appear in pcie ports
<foobarry> but annoying for puppetised machines
<penguin42> diddledan: You can give it fixed naming if you want
<diddledan> i.e. eth0 will always be eth0 and swapping the card will result in eth0 disappearing and eth1 arriving in it's stead
<foobarry> popey: on 100mbit or 1gbit network?
<foobarry> are they 100mbit powerlines?
<popey> 200Mb/s powerlines
<popey> (lies)
<popey> on GbE
<foobarry> my mate is offering me these at Â£20
<foobarry> i heard they tend to break after 1yr or so
<camason> My friend has had multiple sets - never had decent performance with them
<shauno> so the gnome stuff is over?
<daftykins> it is?
<shauno> https://engineering.groupon.com/2014/misc/gnome-foundation-and-groupon-product-names/
<daftykins> ah good news!
<popey> foobarry: I've had mine for years
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-12
<diddledan> 2nd go-no-go is a go
<daftykins> say what?
<diddledan> that's about all we're gonna get until 2:35am UTC
<diddledan> daftykins, the ESA probe onto a comet
<diddledan> they're at the step where they send the command to burn a sharp turn towards the comet from a wide orbital path
<penguin42> diddledan: SO we're not going to really know anything tomorrow
<daftykins> ooh-err
<diddledan> penguin42, yeah, the livestream isn't due to finish until 20:00 UTC tomorrow - I think the actual capture will be somewhere tomorrow eve?
<diddledan> I should have taken notes
<shauno> it's one hell of an accomplishment so far, but all I can really come up with is "oooh, purdy"  (eg http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/78214000/jpg/_78214682_78214681.jpg )
<daftykins> oh my word
<daftykins> that looks like something from sci-fi
<diddledan> <3
<diddledan> that's an awesome photo
<penguin42> yeh that's great
<daftykins> such a thin arm to that solar panel, assuming that's what it is
<penguin42> well, it has approximately no weight
<daftykins> yeah :D
<daftykins> or no mass ;)
<penguin42> oh I'm sure it has plenty of mass; actually I guess the bigger problem is inertia?
<ali1234> this one again
<diddledan> cosplay cylon anyone? http://www.geeknative.com/49333/incredible-cylon-centurion-cosplay-may-never-happen
<penguin42> heck
<map> hi all...GAH my laptop still not shipped
<knightwise> morning
<zmoylan-pi> happy harpoon a comet day \o/
<daftykins> hmm these tesco tablets really are cheap
<daftykins> the hudl 2
<zmoylan-pi> i picked up a bt keyboard yesterday for â¬15
<zmoylan-pi> i think someone on this channel got a hudl using a boatload of clubpoints cheaper than that
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i'm not in England though so don't even have a Tesco
<daftykins> don't think they'd ship to here even
<zmoylan-pi> haven
<zmoylan-pi> haven't seen one in ireland, and i have looked
<zmoylan-pi> they have cheap tablets for sale but nothing i like the look of.  got my current asus in argos for â¬130 with nice case
<popey> yeah, directhex got his for less than 2 quid, my hudl2 was 40 quid
<daftykins> little bit dubious about intel atom usage
<daftykins> plus it doesn't seem to have much of an edge over say, the older Nexus 7
<daftykins> ah well, was just the temptation to play with something new then try and palm off to mother-dearest ;)
<DJones> There's not much difference between the hudl2 & N7 2013 models in use as far as I can see, wife's got one to replace a broken N7v2, it does the job as well as her old N7
<DJones> If anything it has some advantages (micro sd slot etc)
<daftykins> ah yes
<daftykins> strangely the tesco website accepts a Guernsey postcode
<DJones> Speed wise its the same, battery life appears pretty similar, resolution is slightly worse due to the bigger screen, but not noticable
<popey> hdmi too
<DJones> popey: Yep
<popey> it also feels more robust to me than the nexus range
<popey> i like the larger screen, especially for movies/tv
<popey> I spent the entire flight to USA watching films / TV. Was glorious
<DJones> It is thicker and heavier, but not excessively so
<popey> battery life was ~6-7 hours while constantly watching video
<popey> yes.
<popey> fits in my back pocket â»
<DJones> Big pockets
<daftykins> XD
<popey> well, sticks out vertically
<zmoylan-pi> or big backside... :-)
<popey> but i can put it in and walk about, i did so at the sprint, and used it for checking my calendar
<DJones> I'd recommend them
<popey> all of the above
<zmoylan-pi> bought a cheap winter coat from lidl and found it has an internal pocket that will hold the 7" tablet nicely
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: We got a BT keyboard for Â£10 in a local discount shop
<popey> nice!
<popey> desktop size or pocket size bt kb?
<DJones> About the same size as an N7
<zmoylan-pi> the bt keyboard i got is same size give or take a few mm as 7" tablet
<zmoylan-pi> squishy soft rubber buttons but should be useable with a little practice
<popey> today (well yesterday) I learned of "livestreamer"
<popey> livestreamer http://new.livestream.com/ESA/cometlanding best
<popey> watching the comet thing
<willcooke> popey, did I miss anything on the comet landing?
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-30012854 'thruster system used to push the robot into the surface of the comet when it touches down could not be primed'
<popey> not yet
<willcooke> :/
<zmoylan-pi> so fingers crossed it still makes it
<daftykins> ugh Â£45 to see a doctor over here these days
<popey> blimey
<popey> do you not have NHS style healthcare?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/11/11/leak-download-lollipop-lrx21p-factory-image-for-2012-nexus-7-wifi/ interesting
<daftykins> popey: nah, you pay for GP consultations but you can get seen practically same day if you're early enough
<daftykins> i've always been given the impression there's a wait in England?
<popey> depends
<popey> I usually get same day appointment
<popey> depends how urgent it is
<daftykins> i didn't pay anything after my accident, even referrals to the physio
<christel> daftykins: whereabouts are you?
<daftykins> Guernsey, channel islands
<daftykins> we're nestled in just above France
<christel> *nod*
<daftykins> some would have us labelled french mutations ;)
<christel> hehe
<daftykins> what's kind of amusing is i've got a doctors surgery just along the high street from me now, but i've not been since i was a couple of miles away at my parents place, where it was a short stroll down the road
<zmoylan-pi> i'm just surprised apple hasn't bought the islands as a tax haven :-p
<MooDoo> where i am, if you ring up before 8 they can try and get you in for an emergency
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: the Queen wouldn't allow it ;)
<zmoylan-pi> think of all the corgis she could get with apples kind of dosh, she could turn wales into giant corgi sanctuary :-p
<popey> Someone just said "yes!" on the stream. I presume this is a good thing
<daftykins> they might've just gotten given their tax rebate ;)
<zmoylan-pi> or his system finally rebooted on patch tuesday...
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> amusing part 2 is that they'll charge me an admin fee to sign up to another branch 0o
<daftykins> the island's 26 square miles :( heh
<christel> MooDoo: i have never had a problem getting a same-day appointment, the only appoitment challenge i've encounter is when trying to book a follow-up appointment in say three days or whatever as they will generally have booked up the appointments not allocated for same-day and try to offer you one in three weeks instead :)
<DJones> Just a heads up for people updating to Android 5.0, if you use SkyGo, be aware it doesn't work with the lollipop yet and no date on when the updated app will be available
<DJones> Which is a bit frustrating for me as it looks like the LgG3 is getting the update starting this week
<MooDoo> christel: :p ;)
<MartijnVdS> I'm waiting for the Nexus 5 UTA
<MartijnVdS> OTA
<popey> I assume there will be an OTA for Nexus 7 2012?
<DJones> I heard a rumour that the iphone was getting Lollipop before the nexus 5 :)
<popey> given they showed a leaked image (linked above)
<DJones> popey: You'd assume so
<daftykins> i'm already not fond of the new materials design gmail on my Nexus 4
<popey> if not I don't mind flashing clean. I dont actually use my nexus 7 2012 for anything other than irssinotifier
<daftykins> but ho-hum, classic change i guess
<popey> yeah, i dont like the new gmail app
<DJones> http://www.idigitaltimes.com/android-50-lollipop-release-date-nexus-5-nexus-7-nexus-10-nexus-4-get-ota-rollout-394243
<DJones> Rollout from 12th November
<DJones> Includes N7 but doesn't specifify which N7 models
<popey> https://twitter.com/Tesco/status/529927865840971776
<popey> pffft
<popey> to be fair google haven't released AOSP yet
<popey> so it's hard for anyone (other than big partners) to do any updates
<MartijnVdS> popey: google released 5.0 sources
<MartijnVdS> popey: and people have compiled AOSP roms from them
<daftykins> there's a certain rabid nature to those desiring updates, though i'm not even particularly sure there's much to be after
<popey> oh they have now?
<MartijnVdS> popey: several weeks ago already I think
<foobarry> daftykins: +1
<popey> they hadn't last time I looked.
<popey> nah, they didnt back a week ago
<foobarry> who are these people that foam at the mouth I MUST HAVE IT NOOOOW
<MartijnVdS> http://www.phonearena.com/news/Android-5.0-Lollipop-source-hits-AOSP-including-some-Nexus-branches_id62443
<MartijnVdS> ^ 9 days ago
<popey> so we're both right, good enough
<daftykins> i for one will laugh and watch for the bad news post-update then wait for fixed releases ;D
<MartijnVdS> wow
<MartijnVdS> http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/10/28/nexus-5-owners-check-your-google-play-movies-tv-app-you-might-have-a-free-copy-of-gravity-waiting-for-you/
<daftykins> shame it's terrible ;)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: free is free 8-)
<daftykins> oh wow shaun the sheep is free on my nexus 4
<MartijnVdS> wow
<daftykins> i've never even run Play Movies & TV before
<foobarry> daftykins: game? got a link?
<daftykins> film apparently sir
<zmoylan-pi> i liked gravity, lots wrong with it but nicely done
<daftykins> just seemed a bit like calamity-Bullock breaking everything in her path to me ;)
<popey> yeah, i liked gravity too, watched it a few times
<popey> Moon is also great
<zmoylan-pi> some people are just bad with tech, we used one manager to test all software as he could make the most dependable debugged software crash
<foobarry> daftykins: i didn't know the film had come out yet
<zmoylan-pi> it's nice to see hard sci fi instead of whizz bang aliens sci fi for a change
<foobarry> and a 7 minute episode daftykins but its a great one
 * zmoylan-pi is hoping the do foundation justice as tv series
<zmoylan-pi> not sure how they can though
<DJones> There's only one scify movie to watch, all time classic "Silent Running"
<zmoylan-pi> 2010
<daftykins> heh this shaun the sheep thing is only 7 mins
<zmoylan-pi> the day the earth stood still
<daftykins> oops yes foobarry :D
<bigcalm> daftykins: children have short attention spans
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Architecture Day! :-D
<daftykins> so do i apparently
<daftykins> :>
<awilkins> Is that computer architecture or buildings?
<DJones> JamesTait: 32 or 64 bit?
<JamesTait> DJones, YES!
<MooDoo> bigcalm: don't know what you oooo look a unicorn :)
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> That's a cat with an inflatable horn
<zmoylan-pi> cats and inflatable are brief acquaintences
<daftykins> i've been introduced to Star Trek TOS recently, an episode had these dogs with horns fitted to their heads XD
<daftykins> henceforth to be known as 'dogicorns'
<zmoylan-pi> original flash gordon had iguanas with rubber frills :-)
<daftykins> a client has just email'd me saying a supplier of their has graphics in their email signatures - so they want to do the same
<daftykins> it appears to be three images hosted on their site embedded into an HTML email
<zmoylan-pi> and how big is the image?
<daftykins> e.g. http://www.specialistglass.co.uk/esignatures/michael-mccabe.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> then then terms and conditions in the image won't apply as they may not be available when the email is read
<daftykins> http://www.specialistglass.co.uk/esignatures/gallery.jpg and http://www.specialistglass.co.uk/esignatures/footer.jpg
<daftykins> yeah i'm surprised they saw them without having to enable it in Outlook or some such
<daftykins> ho-hum, told 'em i don't do graphics anyway so i'm no help
<bigcalm> Morning intrbiz
<davmor2> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: how's your health?
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2 me ole mate me ole pal
<davmor2> bigcalm: better today but I'll let you know latter if I'm going, I want to be well enough that I don't infect you all :)
<zmoylan-pi> flee! MooDoo's looking for a favour!! :-)
<christel> davmor2: sharing is caring!
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no he isn't, He's not dumb enough to ask me for a favour it means he owes me and my favours are far worse ;)
<davmor2> christel: not this close to the christmas meal it isn't :)
<zmoylan-pi> there's obviously a complicated back story that should be in the channel header :-)
<davmor2> Morning MooDoo me owld mucka 'ow am ya
<MooDoo> davmor2: crackin lad....
<davmor2> intrbiz: dude really have you moved over to the darkside or is this just the busier channel for wolves lug now :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: nothing wrong with the dark side :D
<zmoylan-pi> dark toblerone.... mmmmmm
<davmor2> MooDoo: I didn't say there was we're the happiest people on the planet :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: not sharing is preferable :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: indeed :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: So I woke up this morning and the tune playing loud in my head was the Kinks Lola
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> was listening to that song while walking to shops yesterday, still a great song
<daftykins> speaking of music, i dumped a lot of MP3 for FLAC rips yesterday, seems the ol' Music folder has ballooned to 160GB now :O
<MartijnVdS> 252G	Muziek
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: lightweight ;)
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> i could still prune a lot of that out ;)
<MartijnVdS> I have most of this (the stuff I didn't buy as a download..) as proper CDs as well :)
<zmoylan-pi> no vinyl?
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: do you use FLAC?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: yes
<davmor2> I may be forced to listen to The Lord of the Rings bbc radio adaptation on all 13 cds
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: I have some vinyl too, but those come with mp3 downloads OR flac downloads these days 8-)
<daftykins> davmor2: my my, you'll wear out the eject motor!
<zmoylan-pi> i would love to get the version of the hobbit read on jackanory by cribbins
<daftykins> 24/96 FLAC i hope? ;)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Ripping CDs to anything other than 44100/16 bit is a bit useless
<daftykins> i know that, but i refer to vinyl ripping
<daftykins> which is oft done to 24/96
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I have the bbc adaptation of the hobbit too
<daftykins> i must stop using my parents co-op share number (you get 4p in the pound over here dividend) but i don't fancy another 5 digit number to remember :D
<popey> hmm
<popey> I'd run out of space on my phone if I used flac
<popey> very quickly
<daftykins> well you transcode for mobile devices
<foobarry> have you seen mp3fs?
<popey> reminds me, need to get a couple of 32GB SD cards
<daftykins> because the processing overhead for FLAC causes rapid battery drain on mobile too
<foobarry> http://khenriks.github.io/mp3fs/
<popey> ahayzen: ^^ you use flac on your ubuntu phone?
<ahayzen> popey, i do yes 8GB of flac on the device pretty much :)
<daftykins> just need kitchen-sinkfs now
<popey> ahayzen: battery life suffers?
<ahayzen> popey, not really lasted the whole plane from DC->LHR and bus ride to oxford with still ~50%+ battery left :)
<popey> blimey
<ahayzen> popey, the CPU usage isn't too different to playing mp3s
<daftykins> the (rough estimate) 10x greater IO to read a 10x larger file would speak of a definite difference
<popey> thats like 12 hours or so?
<popey> ahayzen: it's gstreamer + codec isn't it?
<davmor2> daftykins: they have that, it's called a dishwasher
<ahayzen> popey, yeah ages... as Jim said to me at the sprint we are rivalling android/ios for battery life already when just playing music (and the app has a lifecycle exception :P)
<popey> nice
<popey> thats something we get asked about a lot
<popey> "Yeah, but what's the battery life like!?"
<zmoylan-pi> well cramming what is a full desktop os into a mobile device will generate questions on battery
<ahayzen> popey, i detailed some of the different CPU usages of formats while investigating bug 1373392
<lubotu3> bug 1373392 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "[mako] high cpu usage when playing audio via speaker" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1373392
<popey> zmoylan-pi: sure.
<popey> ahayzen: hah, that bug is a bit lolworthy â»
<popey> there's some bizarre behaviour on mobile devices
<ahayzen> popey, yeah i was like so playing via bluetooth uses *less* CPU \o/
<popey> yeah
<ahayzen> popey, the pulse guys reckoned the reason was playing via bluetooth has a higher buffer size
<daftykins> heh that seems utterly backwards
 * zmoylan-pi is very happy with battery life on feature phone nokia.  no matter how much i use it in a day i can't get it below 75% left :-)
<popey> zmoylan-pi: which model?
<zmoylan-pi> nokia asha 201
<popey> nice
<daftykins> that thing looks like a blackberry!
<zmoylan-pi> and i've bounced it off ground a few times to show people how much it doesn't care
<davmor2> ahayzen: I blame you for this ;)
<daftykins> haha
<zmoylan-pi> only thing missing at the mo is a good java text editor for it
<ahayzen> davmor2, well it is todo with music-app ;) ... can i blame tvoss ?
<davmor2> ahayzen: no but you are aloud to blame jhodapp
<daftykins> a friend bought some new form of nokia device, he's even got whatsapp on it now but refuses to use it to message us for free X|
<ahayzen> davmor2, hehe :)
<davmor2> allowed even
<daftykins> well, 'free'
 * popey hugs telegram
<ahayzen> popey, is there a telegram click yet or do you still have to build it?
<popey> golly.. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/whatsapp-compatible-native-client-for-ubuntu-phone/x/1051579
<popey> he hit the target
<daftykins> glad facebook haven't ruined it... yet.
<zmoylan-pi> give them time
<daftykins> :)
<davmor2> they have time to absorb it into facebook messenger yet
<popey> davmor2: got time for some music testing? â»
<daftykins> davmor2: *shudder*
 * ahayzen hides and pretends music is working perfectly
<popey> heh
 * popey emails
<ali1234> why is gstreamer so bad at format support?
<ali1234> mpv can play most formats, and if you install the proper ffmpeg it can play nearly anything
<ali1234> gstreamer freezes and crashes with anything but a few simple formats, and if oyu install the real ffmpeg it doesn't work at all
<davmor2> popey I might have
<zmoylan-pi> the problem is that you have the strayed from the true path of vlc :-p
<ali1234> vlc is rubbish
<davmor2> ahayzen: chicken
<ali1234> it can play any format as long as you don't mind the audio and video is always out of sync
 * zmoylan-pi never has that problem with vlc.  ymmv
 * brobostigon neither.
<zmoylan-pi> and i use the oldest, cheapest, nastiest hardware with the least ram
<foobarry> i see vlc sync issues sometimes
<foobarry> also vlc didn't play a format for me yesterday :(
<ali1234> it also can't play back HD footage at 30 FPS because it is too slow
<brobostigon> which format?
<foobarry> g2m4 codec
<foobarry> 12.04 ubuntu doesn't have a vlc available that runs it
<popey> yeah, I've mostly switched from vlc to mpv
<popey> seems much better/leaner
<foobarry> whats mpv?
<foobarry> !info mpv
<lubotu3> mpv (source: mpv): video player based on MPlayer/mplayer2. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.4.2-1ubuntu3 (utopic), package size 764 kB, installed size 1951 kB
<foobarry> codec not available "enable it at compilation"
<ali1234> vs gstreamers, "codec not available? please wait..... ..... ..... would you like me to download it from the internet? ..... please wait some more ....... ...... sorry I couldn't download it."
<foobarry> VLC does not support the audio or video format "G2M4". Unfortunately there is no way for you to fix this.
<foobarry> heh
<popey> what the hell is g2m4?
<foobarry> gotomeeting webcast
<foobarry> these things tend to crop up a bit if there's a conf call via gotomeeting
<foobarry> webinars etc
<popey> ya
<davmor2> foobarry: latest vlc has support but that won't be the version we have for a little while though there is a ppa for it
<davmor2> MooDoo: bit of stairway to heaven now dude
<MooDoo> davmor2: hungergames soundtrack
<foobarry> davmor2: ppa in 12.04? i can only get 2.0.8 from vlc ppa i found
<daftykins> back later!
<ali1234> bug 1391837
<lubotu3> bug 1391837 in vlc (Ubuntu) "Blocky video with some files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1391837
<davmor2> foobarry: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:videolan/stable-daily try that one
<foobarry> yes, have that one. gave me 2.0.8
<foobarry> doesn't matter, will try on my other pc when i want to watch these
<foobarry> with newer buntu
<zmoylan-pi> ah, didn't realise that xkcd was doing a 'live' cartoon today. :-) http://xkcd.com/
<penguin42> yes thanks for popey telling us :-)
<foobarry> does anything happen in it?
<foobarry> when does it start
<foobarry> oh , something appeared now
<daftykins> aww yeah, second and third cycle trips survived - recycling taken \o/
<daftykins> hah, sunlight is right in my eyes right now, where i sit at my desktop
<daftykins> gotta lean in over the keyboard to avoid it ;)
<zmoylan-pi> make a call to mr. burns and see if his giant block out the sun device is for sale
<foobarry> my patio is getting dug up today
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i'm on it!
<foobarry> wonder what they will find
<penguin42> foobarry: So, that's where Lord Lucan went....
<foobarry> i'm only the third person to live here since it was built in 1930s
<foobarry> and one of the others was my sister (previous owner)
<zmoylan-pi> and shergar
<foobarry> no he's in the freezer
<zmoylan-pi> yours or tescos? :-)
<daftykins> my papers go back a few centuries on my 17th century cottage :>
<daftykins> (for previous owners)
<zmoylan-pi> and you're still waiting for solicter from them to get back to you? :-D
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> also, local property records are in French
<popey> Lunchtime! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30000934
<Laney> wee
<Laney> legal and general let me upload my pgp key for them to encrypt mails to
<penguin42> Laney: Wow - how did you get them to do that?
<Laney> it's some symantec secure mail system they use
<zmoylan-pi> made an offer they couldn't refuse, brought muffins? :-)
<penguin42> Laney: oh yeh I remember having to use the web interface on that once but didn't see any pgp thin
<penguin42> g
<Laney> was an option when receiving the first mail
<Laney> you could probably go back in and set it up now
<christel> popey: it is so wrong it is nearly right indeed, i would totally try that :s
<daftykins> i like the quote - "...why is this sort of food available?"
<daftykins> something something something... demand? :>
<daftykins> chop chop 5,000 or 9,000 files copied
<daftykins> s/or/of/
<NET||abuse> hi guys. i'm using GNOME Terminal 3.12.3, couple of odd behaviours, i'm having very laggy rendering (in gnome-shell 3.12 from gnome3-team ppa) and when i scale text (ctrl-{+,-}
<NET||abuse> it resizes the window, rather than just scaling the text and keeping the window at the existing dimensions.. it's actually exactly what i don't want
<NET||abuse> the one thing i want is text-reflow. otherwise i'd be back in terminator :P
<NET||abuse> has anyone got alternative terminals/fixes for gnome terminal?
<daftykins> i wonder if there's a gnome channel give your use of a PPA
<Azelphur> On a roll today, had a power cut which turned all my stuff off, MicroServer won't boot because of the hard drive that failed, and my 70mbit fibre is http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3903524619
<Azelphur> going for the high score of failure? o.O
<daftykins> Azelphur: :(
<daftykins> i'd go back to bed ;)
<daftykins> Wednesday is cancelled!
<directhex> i cancelled wednesday & went back to bed
<directhex> just got up
<directhex> still tired
<zmoylan-pi> my personal /best/ for failures was it took 6 hours to replace a dodgy floppy drive.  and it destroyed 3 other drives in the attempt/process.
<daftykins> ouch! HDDs?
<daftykins> ooh-err suns gone so it's cold again
 * daftykins battons down the hatches
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Please don't say this, I need to go and remount a drive later
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> or when i went to do some dust maintenance on my file server, the PSU died and i couldn't use it until a replacement arrived :(
<penguin42> Azelphur: It's pretty impressive getting that sort of upload with almost no download
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> quite the async role reversal
<penguin42> daftykins: I've got 2 drives in a RAID, and the 2nd drive makes the case vibrate strongly, I've put up with it for months now but it's driving me nuts
<Azelphur> penguin42: indeed, it has happened before when my ISP has oversold a location
<Azelphur> I'm gonna get angry with them if that's the case this time
<daftykins> penguin42: doh! you need some nice rubber grommets or some such :D
<zmoylan-pi> i remember my boss ran out of compressed air dusters so brought an ancient cpm computer to nearest garage and used their vaccuum to clean out the 10 years of dust and cobwebs.  never worked again
<penguin42> Azelphur: If you've had a power cut it's possible the DSLAM in the cabinet has also lost power and it's just figuring out again
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh I was thinking a lump of foam and mounting the drive on a tray
<Azelphur> penguin42: could be, the cabinet is right outside
<Azelphur> that's hopefully more likely than them overselling for a third time
<penguin42> Azelphur: Well, I'd expect them to oversell, but it would be surprising if it happened to kick in just as you had a power outage, unless your electricity company is also overselling....
<daftykins> Azelphur: they actually admit it?
<Azelphur> daftykins: yes, they actually admitted it both times and reprioritised my line after much complaining so that I had some semblance of a functional connection
<Azelphur> they didn't use the word overselling, they said "an influx of new customers"
<daftykins> ah-har
<Azelphur> which to me equates to "You sold my internet connection to someone else"
<Azelphur> :P
<foobarry> saw a puma and chinook at lunchtime overhead
<daftykins> must've been one scared puma getting airlifted ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: don't think I'll be going to night I'm off to bed now :(  If you could pay the fiver that would be awesome thanks dude.
<bigcalm> davmor2: no worries. Get well soon mate
<bigcalm> czajkowski: how does couchbase compare to mongodb?
<zmoylan-pi> i think she's at a trade thingy today, judging by her twitter feed
<intrbiz>  bigcalm How does PostgreSQL 9.4 compare to mongodb or couchbase ;)
<MartijnVdS> didn't postgresql beat those on benchmarks ;)
<bigcalm> intrbiz: I have no experience with any of those 3
<intrbiz> MartijnVdS: yup, faster than Mongo for importing JSON and querying JSON in some benchmarks I've seen, still in beta though
<zmoylan-pi> shouldn't any benchmarks now be required to be shown wether it's on hdd, sdd or some mobile platform?
<intrbiz> PostgreSQL 9.4 with JSONB, will be awesome, someone phrased it as 'they've put mongo inside PostgreSQL'
<intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: That is irrelevant when you are testing two applications on the same server
<zmoylan-pi> true, but for chosing which database to use...
<zmoylan-pi> on a particular project
<intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: The benchmark was run on an AWS instance IRRC
<intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: These days, I'd stick any database on an SSD
<intrbiz> The PostgreSQL 9.4 v Mongo benchmark EDB did is here: http://blogs.enterprisedb.com/2014/09/24/postgres-outperforms-mongodb-and-ushers-in-new-developer-reality/
<zmoylan-pi> ah ha, the fox is back, been missing a few weeks. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9j38UmSYjClRVdqMW1CQ3Bidlk/view?usp=sharing
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> is... that a bunch of cocktail sausages and dog/cat food?
<zmoylan-pi> a bunch of slugs fighting over catfood. no local wild life will eat the spanish slugs... :-/
<zmoylan-pi> i usually salt the area but the heavy rain washes it away
<daftykins> oh yeah i see stalks now XD
<haya> hi guys plz help me, when i comiple kernel 2.6.11 in ubuntu, i got these errors,
<haya> make[1]: *** [arch/x86_64/kernel/process.o] Error 1 make: *** [arch/x86_64/kernel] Error 2
<daftykins> compiling an arch kernel on ubuntu, lol.
<haya> tell me the solution
<haya> im new in linux
<intrbiz> haya: are you compiling such an old kernel for any particular reason?
<directhex> yeah, that's neolithic. it won't support any of your hardware
<directhex> http://i.imgur.com/g60eHhg.jpg
<haya> yeah, bcz kernel 2.6.11 support the macKill patches
<intrbiz> haya: forgive my ignorance but what is mackill and why do you want it?
<ali1234> haya: going to need the full output not just the last line
<haya> Mackill is a little tool for dropping IP Packets which where sent by an host having a certain hardware address.
<intrbiz> haya: can you not use ebtables?
<ali1234> just make a filewall rule?
<MartijnVdS> haya: so.. you could use ebtables or iptables?
<haya>   CHK     include/linux/version.h   UPD     include/linux/version.h   SYMLINK include/asm -> include/asm-x86_64   SPLIT   include/linux/autoconf.h -> include/config/*   HOSTCC  scripts/genksyms/genksyms.o   SHIPPED scripts/genksyms/lex.c   SHIPPED scripts/genksyms/parse.h   SHIPPED scripts/genksyms/keywords.c   HOSTCC  scripts/genksyms/lex.o   SHIPPED scripts/genksyms/parse.c   HOSTCC  scripts/genksyms/parse.o   HOSTLD  scripts/genksym
<haya>   CHK     include/linux/version.h   UPD     include/linux/version.h   SYMLINK include/asm -> include/asm-x86_64   SPLIT   include/linux/autoconf.h -> include/config/*   HOSTCC  scripts/genksyms/genksyms.o   SHIPPED scripts/genksyms/lex.c   SHIPPED scripts/genksyms/parse.h   SHIPPED scripts/genksyms/keywords.c   HOSTCC  scripts/genksyms/lex.o   SHIPPED scripts/genksyms/parse.c   HOSTCC  scripts/genksyms/parse.o   HOSTLD  scripts/genksym
<directhex> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/iptables-mac-address-filtering.html
<directhex> simple.
<daftykins> haya: don't paste please
<directhex> haya: is the target computer newer than 2005?
<haya> yeah
<directhex> haya: then 2.6.11 won't have drivers for it
<haya> but its my project requirement
<directhex> ._.
<directhex> hooray for coursework not updated for a decade
<intrbiz> haya: 2.6.11 is a 2005 kernel, even if you get it to compile your unlikely to get any modern userland to work
<intrbiz> haya: and 2.6.11 is completely unsupported
<ali1234> nonsense
<ali1234> unless by "modern userland" you mean unity and gnome
<jpds> ali1234: Dude, go and install systemd already.
<directhex> ali1234: udev?
<intrbiz> ali1234: no i meant udev / systemd etc
<haya> but these old kernel only support the MacKill Patches
<haya> new kernels dnt support it
<intrbiz> haya: so look for an alternative to MacKill, I suspect ebtables will do what you need
<ali1234> udev was around before 2005
<directhex> ali1234: but there was a breaking ABI change in it, which caused many upgrade issues between debian releases
<directhex> https://www.debian.org/releases/squeeze/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#upgrading-udev
<jpds> haya: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/manet/current/msg05622.html
<ali1234> this does not mean software won't work
<jpds> haya: First hit googling "mackill linux kernel".
<haya> anyone can tell me the solution??
<jpds> haya: Do you have to compile such an ancient kernel?
<haya> yeah
<directhex> okay.
<directhex> i think you'll have more luck doing this in a debian 5 VM.
<jpds> haya: Better go to http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ and install 5.04 in a VM.
<foobarry> haya: but why>?
<foobarry> what course /project is this for?
<haya> <directhex> 5.04 for what??
<haya> i have instaled etch debain base system on usb and now installing kernel and then login from usb <foobarry?
<directhex> so you already *have* debian 5.
<directhex> no, that's 4
<directhex> jesus
<directhex> oh yeah, debian. etch was 2007
<directhex> 2.6.18
<daftykins> seems like an exercise in futility - impressive, lecturer.
<directhex> this is decade-old course materials, showing how to do something in a frustrating manner which is a 1-liner today
<directhex> it's a waste of time for everyone involved
<daftykins> so, education then? :)
<haya> oh please dn't give me a lecture and tell me a solution
<directhex> time travel?
<directhex> you haven't actually said what the build error is
<intrbiz> haya: the solution is to use IPTables on a recent distro release
<daftykins> what a terribly unfriendly fellow
<directhex> haya: "Error 1" from Make means "the last thing just above this line caused a build failure". it's meaningless without context.
<foobarry> if you really want help with your homework maybe you should paste the entire problem as posed to you
<haya> {standard input}: Assembler messages: {standard input}:1111: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `mov' {standard input}:1137: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `mov' {standard input}:2157: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `mov' {standard input}:2159: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `mov' {standard input}:2161: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `mov' {standard input}:2163: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `mov'
<foobarry> i fear that people are trying to solve your interpretation of the problem
<daftykins> haya: use http://paste.ubuntu.com from now on
<NET||abuse> hmm, having fun with usb now..
<daftykins> it's the fUnSerialBus!
<NET||abuse> somhow, my mouse is still working, yet if i plugin a usb ethernet or usb memory stick, neither register, the lights on either don't light up,
<NET||abuse> suod lsusb just hanging
<daftykins> dmesg?
<NET||abuse> been waiting 2 minutes
<daftykins> this a laptop?
<directhex> haya: okay, that's a problem with inline assembly for your processor architecture.
<haya> so whats the solution??
<directhex> haya: possible issues: a bug in the kernel version you're trying to use; a bug in the assembly, which a newer compiler is refusing to touch; problems introduced by your patches; a bug in the compiler you're using
<haya> directhex: so tell me how can i solve this problem
<directhex> have you asked your lecturer? you're supposed to bring problems with assignments to their attention
<daftykins> haya: what level of education is this at?
<zmoylan-pi> i'd set about compiling a recent kernel to make sure all my ducks were in a row before trying an ancient one
<haya> directhex: yeah he knows but he thinks its posible
<directhex> what is your *actual* assignment?
<haya> directhex: first instal etch debain on usb then append MacKill patches in kernel and compile the kernel from source then install lilo and finally login from usb
<directhex> ._.
<directhex> so you're supposed to *patch the debian kernel*, or do a new kernel from scratch?
<directhex> hm, /me has a hunch
<haya> :(
<haya> debain kernel
<directhex> did you install 32-bit or 64-bit etch?
<haya> i dnt know exactly, i used this command, sudo debootstrap etch /mnt/buildroot/ http://archive.debian.org/debian/
<NET||abuse> daftykins, yeh, laptop, sorry got grabbed re work stuff for a minute
<daftykins> NET||abuse: did they appear within that time? :)
<NET||abuse> nope
<NET||abuse> hmmm    unregister_netdevice: waiting for eth0 to become free. Usage count =
<NET||abuse> 1
<daftykins> i wonder if your USB controllers are a tad wonky
<NET||abuse> laptop is and XPS-15-9530, Intel C220 chipset
<daftykins> pull the mains and battery, then fresh boot?
<haya> directhex: ??
<NET||abuse> have message continually running.. wiating for eth0 to become free.. Usage count = 1
<directhex> haya: go into the chroot and run "dpkg-architecture"
<NET||abuse> hmm, maybe that vm is doing something odd.
<directhex> you care about DEB_HOST_ARCH
<popey> https://gigaom.com/2014/11/12/a-milestone-moment-for-microsoft-net-is-now-an-open-source-project/
<daftykins> O_O
<penguin42> popey: Wow interesting, I wonder which licenses - but that's interesting
<haya> directhex: i used "dpkg-architecture" but problem is still same
<directhex> popey: er, isn't that still under embargo?
<directhex> haya: sigh. dpkg-architecture will tell you information. it isn't some magic command to make your 10 year old coursework right. it's information useful for debugging
<popey> directhex: seems not
<popey> directhex: its all over twitter
<daftykins> lol we have someone asking the exact same kernel compilation thing in #ubuntu now
<daftykins> who bets we get more of the same class in soon :P
<foobarry> i don't get the question
<foobarry> i find it hard to believe that they would really be asked to do that on a 10yr old kernel
<daftykins> yeah, seems a bit dubious
<foobarry> the question was never explicitly stated
<daftykins> i sense there's a reason for the lack of completeness
<intrbiz> it sounds like the lecturer hasn't tried to do it recently
<foobarry> surely somebody would reason with him
<foobarry> also, if no linux skills then kernel ciompilcaition? really?
<foobarry> extra letters there
<intrbiz> the only thing it teaches is that time marches on and there are multiple solutions to any problem
<foobarry> time marches on , except syllabi
<ali1234> clompication
<foobarry> bit late in the day for my brain
<foobarry> how to i double indent a <li> list?
<foobarry> heh, forget that
<Seeker`> oooh, they landed on the comet
<bigcalm> The clock is missing from my notification area. Trying to use the Time & Date config to find out what's wrong is greyed out: http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/datetime_settings_dialog.png
<bigcalm> Anybody know how to fix this without restarting the machine or lightgdm?
<ali1234> restart unity panel service or something
<bigcalm> Not something I'm used to doing. Do you know how to do that?
<bigcalm> davmor2: stop being ill and fix my computer
<bigcalm> sudo fix my computer
<penguin42> bigcalm: it's normally a case of restarting indicator-timedate or something like that
<ali1234> bigcalm: the exact method for restarting the indicator services seems to change more often than i change my socks
<bigcalm> Ew
 * daftykins sniffs
<daftykins> ali1234: not sure that carries much weight ;)
<bigcalm> > 12MB/s torrenting
 * bigcalm bounces
<daftykins> :O
<bigcalm> 13.2MB/s now :)
<daftykins> what's the service?
<bigcalm> VM cable. Meant to be 100/6
<daftykins> hmm, more upload needed :( i have 40/5
<bigcalm> Considering it's home time, I'm really surprised I'm getting a good rate
<bigcalm> http://www.speedtest.net/result/3904196259.png
<penguin42> bigcalm: That's going some :-)
<bigcalm> I'm happy
<bigcalm> I'll be happier once they install our telephone line
<bigcalm> Nice that they are applying a credit to our account for the time we've been without the line
<penguin42> bigcalm: vm seem to give credits if you ask; I've had a couple
<daftykins> i only have a telephone line to provide my copper pair :(
<zmoylan-pi> think of the money you'll save not using netflix or other online services
<bigcalm> penguin42: I tried to leave VM. They asked how much I'd be willing to pay. Said Â£35/pcm and they agreed. So we now have a Â£20/pcm rolling credit
<penguin42> bigcalm: !
<bigcalm> Quite :)
<penguin42> bigcalm: Still, I'm only paying ~27/month (basic cable package) and I can't get infinity here so I've not got much options
<daftykins> when i had it in portsmouth the choice was probably them or get a phone line based service, i looked up at the phone line running over to a pole and was like 'naaaaah'
<daftykins> come to think of it, that was when a 10Mb service was first offered in late 2006 O_O
<bigcalm> I did my home work and knew I could get a decent FTTC connection here. So didn't mind if they didn't try too hard to keep me
<bigcalm> Being calm and polite works wonders :)
<daftykins> * bigcalm is now known as bigpolitecalm
<bigcalm> Time to go and buy a dishwasher!
<bigcalm> Heh
<penguin42> they're excellent
<bigpolitecalm> I like it
<bigcalm> penguin42: what are?
<daftykins> :D
<bigcalm> 17:57 -!- You're now known as bigpolitecalm
<bigcalm> 17:57 < bigpolitecalm> I like it
<bigcalm> 17:58 -!- Keepnick: Nickstealer left [freenode], got bigcalm back
<bigcalm> Heh, silly irssi proxy
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> bigcalm: Dishwashers
<bigcalm> penguin42: ah, I hope so :)
<bigcalm> Paying 300 notes for an 18 month old one from a friend of my wife
<daftykins> i wonder what the top end for virgin media cable is
<daftykins> (downstream throughput)
 * bigcalm runs away
<penguin42> daftykins: I think top end is 120Mbps
<daftykins> that the tech is capable of?
<daftykins> surely not
<daftykins> i should've been more specific perhaps
<penguin42> daftykins: The tech is DOCSIS
<penguin42> daftykins: My router claims it's in 'EU DOCSIS 3.0' mode
<daftykins> apparently they can do 152/12
<penguin42> nice
<penguin42> daftykins: I'd actually like a bit more upstream, downstream I've got more than enough at the 50-60Mbps they give me
<daftykins> http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2014/07/virgin-media-uk-lab-testing-10gbps-docsis-3-1-broadband-upgrade.html
<daftykins> yeah i agree, i'd like at least 10Mb
<daftykins> the worst part is knowing my line is capable and just being offered less :(
<camason> I've probably already missed the discussion... but any thoughts on the .net open-sourcing? What might it mean on Ubuntu?
<map> why cant the months go quicker
<map> i wanna go away but skip the weeks of work
<penguin42> shhh don't suggest that, I'm on holiday this week
<map> :D
<foobarry> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30019976
<foobarry> patch for winXP ?
<map> im going to Barcelona 8th-12th december / Portugal in January / Morocco for 2 days at some point (we can get a ferry!)
<map> and then off to Ibiza last week of may for the opening parties -- im 30 in 13 days so last time i can go there probably
<zmoylan-pi> if we get penguin42 to go to meetings for map the time dilation will make the week seem longer and map gets to skip the work and everyone is happy! ;-)
<penguin42> yeh what have I got to say?
<penguin42> I assume just agree to all deadlines and volunteer to do all the work the next week?
<map> yay
<map> yea
<map> you can do my job
<map> il still get the pay though
<map> deal?
<map> :D
<penguin42> hmm
<map> tempting eh:D
<zmoylan-pi> shhhh, that part was going to be a surprise :-p
<map> heh
<daftykins> foobarry: i sure hope XP doesn't get a patch, it should be hung out to dry
<daftykins> but then XP embedded is still within support, so no doubt customers of that will demand a patch :(
<map> xp lasted for years
<map> it had a good life
<map> yea isnt xp still used on lots of atms and everything
<zmoylan-pi> xp will be around a few years yet, just a diminishing %
<map> yea
<map> until replacements etc
<map> but it lasted 10+years?
<map> good life for an OS imo
<daftykins> we need to help it on its' way to death
<zmoylan-pi> the dos used on russian satellites is still around and in use :-[
<daftykins> refuse to fix it, etc.
<zmoylan-pi> :-p
<map> some of the stories about ATMs and cyber crooks installing malware on them's quite incredible...they simply plug a USB drive in reboot the machine boot off usb etc
<map> not simply but thats kinda how..no password protection in bios..nothing
<map> and they make the machines just give out money lol
<daftykins> or they're likely configured with defaults
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> don't even need to boot off other devices sometimes
<daftykins> just button sequences on the front
 * daftykins looks left and right
<zmoylan-pi> the ones in germany had usb ports covered with just a few mm of plastic and ports weren't deactivated so it was a beautiful hack to my mind.  atm builder deserved to be sued for that one
<daftykins> crikey D:
<map> yea
<map> thats what i was saying zmoylan-pi they were cutting through plastic
<map> connecting usb rebooting etc
<map> no bios pass etc crazy stuff
<foobarry> topcashback are giving 7.50Â£ worth of lego cahback
<map> the atm malware would say how many notes in the casettes etc
<foobarry> so buy 7.99+1.99p&p , get 7.50 back
<zmoylan-pi> reminds me of the great scene in sneakers where they encounter the door with the keypad and after a few minutes of conferring he just kicks it in bypassing the super secure lock
<map> heh
<map> http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/10/spike-in-malware-attacks-on-aging-atms/
<foobarry> christmas present ideas anyone?
<SuperEngineer> helicopter
<popey> sure, you can buy me anything off this list http://www.amazon.co.uk/registry/wishlist/29FWHGD2GAECA â»
<popey> https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0qe9bsidl2fnxca/IMG_20141112_211603.jpg?dl=0
<foobarry> popey: you(r kids) like lego, did you see what i mentioned earlier?
<popey> no
<foobarry> Â£7.50 off a lego purchase
<popey> neat!
<popey> my brother went to a lego display in london today
<foobarry> topcashback are doing it
<popey> http://artofthebrick.co.uk/
<foobarry> oh yeah q. expensive i heard
<foobarry> few friends have been
<map> i want an ipad air
<daftykins> map: freedom hater!
<map> they had a bus stop made of lego in London last year if anyone remembers:D
<foobarry> i/ve just been tryin gto fix dishwasher
<foobarry> failed
<foobarry> if you're after a good torch popey i can recommend
<penguin42> popey: I missed the opening of our local Netto today; apparently they had a huge Lego dog at it
<foobarry> http://www.torchdirect.co.uk/professional-torches/led-lenser-police-tech-focus.html
<foobarry> i have this, its nice
<foobarry> ok , how is this so cheap? http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B007B86KLC/ref=wl_it_dp_v_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=29FWHGD2GAECA&coliid=I13V6MLMZ2OGEW&psc=1
<SuperEngineer> foobarry, re your dishwasher; have you tried using a mallet?
<foobarry> no
<SuperEngineer> ah! that's where you went wrong :D
<SuperEngineer> [it may not *completely* solve your problem: but it us soooooooooooo satisfaying letting it now who's in charge!
<SuperEngineer> *is
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: ah the old percussive maintenance
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS, ;D
<SuperEngineer> yup
<foobarry> i like that popey has had a getting things done:priority high in his wishlist since 2007
<popey> heheh
<diddledan> this is a fun read (after following the link to the block request): https://blocklist.addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/blocked/p428
<diddledan> I'm unclear just what exactly stops working with the plugin disabled
<diddledan> but meh
<diddledan> offtopic, I guess
<map> hm
<diddledan> I just found it interesting is all
<diddledan> in related news, tho, which is actually sort of topicful: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/11/mozilla-releases-firefox-developer-edition
<map> chan 4show called bad robots hm could be interesting
<zmoylan-pi> the south african air defence demo that went horribly wrong?
<shauno> hm, msft open-sourcing chunks of .net is .. perplexing
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's desperation to stay relevent
<map> thought .nets still popular
<map> i dont use it;F
<map> :D
<diddledan> shauno, link?
<diddledan> shauno, I'm betting xamarin will "borrow" some of it
<shauno> http://github.com/Microsoft/dotnet
<diddledan> patent promise too
<shauno> yeah, they've pretty much said so already; http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2014/Nov-12.html
<ali1234> the most interestng thing is they are using MIT license, not some MSPL or something
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh that's not bad; the only odd thing is the patent promise only seems to be for use as a .net system
<ali1234> promises aren't worth anything anyway
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh, I'm not sure how that works
<penguin42> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A1SM813W6H36YA  is wonderful
<directhex> penguin42, that's largely irrelevant for now, but will be relevant when they add their runtime to the source tree
<directhex> penguin42, basically their patent promise doesn't cover Sun against integrating MS.NET GC/JIT behaviour in Java
<penguin42> directhex: But more importantly it doesn't cover you using a part of their code in your own project that's not .net related (if I read it right)
<directhex> right.
<penguin42> directhex: and for an open source project that's a mess, it means you can't just reuse code
<penguin42> directhex: If you had someone working on a JIT could they work on that as well as working on a javascript jit say for fear of anything they might pick up?
<directhex> penguin42, you're not covered for non-.net uses, as you say. any end-user apps running on .net are covered, any .net runtimes are. unrelated stuff is not
<penguin42> directhex: Right
<directhex> you still have the copyright coverage from MIT, but not patent coverage alongside. how much that bothers you is an individual decision
<penguin42> directhex: It worries me because MS make a lot of money off open source projects by patent stuff afterwards
<penguin42> directhex: and it worries me because someone might reasonably think they can take a chunk of MIT licensed code and use it in random other projects
<diddledan> surely if a patent holder releases source code under a permissive license then any uses allowed by that license are inherently patent indemnified
<diddledan> it would need testing in court, and IANAL
<directhex> diddledan, only on licenses with patent language in
<penguin42> diddledan: I don't think so, I think that's why there's the separate patent thing
<directhex> diddledan, otherwise copyright & patents aren't the same thing
<ali1234> that's the main reason why they made GPL3
<diddledan> surely it's implicit thpough
<penguin42> diddledan: No, it's not
<ali1234> nothing is implicit in a license, that's why they are always 500 pages long
<penguin42> diddledan: Hence why people worry about it
<diddledan> like "I own X Y and Z. you can use X Y and Z for any purposes without warranty" <-- how is that not a patent grant?
 * penguin42 wont claim to know
<directhex> it's not "i own x y and z" though
<ali1234> that wouldn't even be a valid license
<diddledan> well you can't license it without owning it
<diddledan> unless the license allows such
<diddledan> a license can only be granted by the title holder unless the title holder has divested the right to sublicense
<directhex> source code is just source code. when you receive MIT-licensed source code, you have received MIT-licensed source code
<diddledan> in this case microsoft is the title holder so their assignment to an MIT license declares that any recipients of microsoft-owned MIT-licensed code is implicitly granted patent immunity
<diddledan> it would be different if I then took microsoft's code and modified it
<directhex> anything else which may or may not be associated with that source code, such as patents possibly covering that implementation, are distinct. unless the copyright holder explicitly ties them together, e.g. using a license like GPLv3 or Apache 2.0
<diddledan> but just usage should be indemnified implicitly
 * diddledan gets tied up in knots
<diddledan> .. but I want patent immunity for everyone, so I'm going to argue black is green until microsoft and the court system agrees with me!
<diddledan> it may be a long night
<directhex> diddledan, everyone using the .net source for anything .net related is covered
<directhex> anyone using it for things which are not .net related are not. using chunks of that source in something .net related does not neccessarily mean you are in breach of a patent
<directhex> er, using it in something *not* .net related
<directhex> the point is, patents are complicated
<diddledan> I wonder how that would be affected by embedding
<diddledan> software patents moreso
<directhex> embedding how?
<diddledan> like taking the jit and making it a part of your irc client
<diddledan> so that your irc client can run .net code without a preinstalled runtime
<diddledan> kinda like an embedded scripting host
<penguin42> diddledan: That's OK because it becomes 'part of a 'net runtime'
<directhex> covered. as long as you implement enough of the class library
<diddledan> I guess it depends on semantics in edge cases like that
<penguin42> diddledan: However, if you liked one of the libraries in it and found a way to link it against your irc client without any .net involved, then you wouldn't be covered
<directhex> "all of the required parts of the mandatory provisions of Standard ECMA-335" means the basic types like string, integer, etc
<ali1234> so oracle can use the JIT and GC stuff in java, as long as they also make the java runtime capable of running .net as well?
<diddledan> ooh, beastly
<diddledan> .net/java hybrid
<directhex> ali1234, YES.
<directhex> diddledan, we already have a java/.net hybrid
<penguin42> ali1234: interesting question; but then if someone was using it and decided they didn't need .net and compiled it out, they'd not be covered?
<directhex> correct!
<ali1234> unrelated: why can't i have a C compiler that generates jvm/.net bytecode?
<directhex> you can. microsoft have one
<ali1234> what is it called?
<directhex> directhex@desire:/tmp$ javac HelloWorldApp.java
<directhex> directhex@desire:/tmp$ ikvmc HelloWorldApp.class
<directhex> directhex@desire:/tmp$ mono HelloWorldApp.exe
<directhex> Hello World!
<directhex> ali1234, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B/CLI
<directhex> directhex@desire:/tmp$ rm HelloWorldApp.exe
<directhex> directhex@desire:/tmp$ ls HelloWorldApp.*
<directhex> HelloWorldApp.class  HelloWorldApp.java
<directhex> directhex@desire:/tmp$ mono /usr/lib/ikvm/ikvm.exe HelloWorldApp
<directhex> Hello World!
<directhex> java on .net :D
<popey> Pervert
<penguin42> yeh but then if you had a C compiler you could compile your .net implementation in .net
<directhex> you think *that's* perverted?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-13
<directhex> directhex@desire:/tmp$ vbnc hello.vb
<directhex> Visual Basic.Net Compiler version 0.0.0.5943 (Mono 3.8 - tarball)
<directhex> directhex@desire:/tmp$ mono hello.exe
<directhex> Hello World using Visual Basic!
<ali1234> C++/CLI doesn't look very much like C to me
<diddledan> related to the announcement of opensource .net: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/somasegar/archive/2014/11/12/opening-up-visual-studio-and-net-to-every-developer-any-application-net-server-core-open-source-and-cross-platform-visual-studio-community-2013-and-preview-of-visual-studio-2015-and-net-2015.aspx
<diddledan> specifically the "community" edition of visual studio
<diddledan> it's unclear what they mean by "non-enterprise" tho
<directhex> q&a on http://www.visualstudio.com/products/visual-studio-community-vs
<shauno> >5 seats iirc
<shauno> there's a revenue cap as well, I believe
<directhex> In enterprise organizations (meaning those with >250 PCs or > $1MM in annual revenue), no use is permitted beyond the open source, academic research, and classroom learning environment scenarios described above.
<directhex> $1M is not much revenue for an "enterprise"
<diddledan> interesting
<popey> the migration tool in android L is rather swish
<popey> (assuming your device has nfc)
<directhex> i don't expect to get L for a few months
<ali1234> migration from your old phone?
<popey> yeah
<popey> part way through the setup wizard it offers it
<diddledan> watching a video on their blog - microsoft are really pushing the "mobile first cloud first" message in every communication since satya nedalla took over
<popey> you put your old / new devices back to back and thats mostly it
<directhex> diddledan, you don't agree?
<popey> it exchanges a few lists over bluetooth, you unlock the old device and type passwords into new device and it gives you a list of the apps to bring over
<map> hm
<popey> you untick the ones you dont want, and leave it to work
<popey> nicely done
<map> was trying to install that go on ubuntu and i cant get anythong to run :(
<diddledan> directhex, I just find it interesting that they're managing to be extremely consistent in everything
<ali1234> the cloudmobile is really the only option these days if you want to make money
<shauno> when they promised us flying cars, this cloudmobile isn't what I pictured
<penguin42> shauno: Nice!
<ali1234> convergence: http://motorinfo.org/images/vw-beetle-13.jpg
<shauno> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMNSvHswljM
<markp> urgh
<markp> daftykins,  awake?:D
<DJones> Morning all
<Myrtti> moin
 * zmoylan-pi listens to rain and wind outside
<foobarry> any suggestions what tool to use for examining problems with my css?
<foobarry> might be table related too, or other..
<diplo> foobarry, what sort of issues, I'm not a guru but I do css most days
<diplo> HTML Validator plugin for Firefox has helped when I can't find stuff myself sometimes
<foobarry> i'm half way through hacking this http://bit.ly/14gQ1Nk into http://bit.ly/1yBJC8r
<foobarry> but retaining the original look and feel but gaining the nice dropdown menu
<foobarry> wondering if there's a tool to make it easier than grinding through the css and divs
<popey> Morning all.
<diplo> OK, taking a look now
<diplo> See you went with bootstrap :)
<diplo> morning popey
<diplo> So people have created templates for stuff like this
<diplo> But a lot of it would be div / css grinding unfortunatelty
<diplo> http://startbootstrap.com/template-overviews/sb-admin-2/
<diplo> Can use something like that
<foobarry> my vim isn't even helping me to match my divs etc
<diplo> SFTP and Sublime or Geany or something, I'm a VIM person as well, but I find simple WebIDE's make things that bit easier
<foobarry> ok cheers
<diplo> I'll take a look through your html in a bit, just got a few people harassing me on the othe rmachine :)
<diplo> Suppose I really ought to work
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Kindness Day! :-D
<diplo> OK, first issue is why is it all inside a table ?
<diplo> the navs etc
<foobarry> diplo: don't worry, its ugly hack atm
<foobarry> just wondering if there were tools
<diplo> Well it'll affect your other code
<diplo> :)
<foobarry> think i will start again, but more methodically
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diplo> Tables are awful unless used only where needed :)
<diplo> Defo, basically before adding anything in create the template
<foobarry> i borrowed from an existing page to retain the style
<diplo> Use that link earlier as a basic template
<diplo> And then work your code around it
<foobarry> i was taking a shortcut and failed miserably ;)
<diplo> I found that happens a lot with html/css
<diplo> :)
<foobarry> i'll do it properly, thanks :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> stupid car alarm going off
<popey> (mine)
<diplo> foobarry, if you want a hand I can chuck up the basics at some point today of your layout
<czajkowski> aloha
<foobarry> diplo: thanks for the offer ;)
 * davmor2 gives JamesTait some internet cake
<zmoylan-pi> internet cake... surely a cookie would be more appropriate? :-)
<popey> mmmmm
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: it was me being kind to JamesTait for international kindness day don't ruin it :P
<zmoylan-pi> not an evil tracking cookie of course :-)
<davmor2> popey: oh you're that neighbour are you ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: thanks for the compassion with the fix my computer line, I felt the love ;)   what's up with your computer other than you using it wrong :)
<popey> seems so
<davmor2> popey: we have a guy with a car alarm that goes off every night without fail at about 10:30 pm
<ali1234> davmor2: his indicator-datetime keeps disappearing
<bigcalm> davmor2: yesterday the clock had gone from my notification area and the date/time settings screen was greyed out. It's working today though
<JamesTait> davmor2, my second favourite kind of cake. :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: see how I fixed it for you in my comatosed state ;) was there a crash file for it in /var/crash it sounds like it just died
<davmor2> JamesTait: I would of given you real cake but a) you're not close enough b) I'm really not well enough to drive over to yours c) I'm thinking of the weight gain from all that cake ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: nope
<bigcalm> It's working today, so my interest is a little low now ;)
 * popey has oxtail in the slow cooker. house smells *amazing*
<davmor2> bigcalm: if it happens again run ps aux | grep datetime if you don't see /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/indicator-datetime/indicator-datetime-service try starting it :)
<davmor2> popey: oh you making some homemade oxtail soup
<JamesTait> davmor2, have you got the lurgy as well?
<MooDoo> morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude
<MooDoo> davmor2: howdy chap
<davmor2> MooDoo: this mornings tune popcorn from the great egg race :)
<popey> davmor2: Rabo de Toro.
<davmor2> popey: hmmm different
<popey> delicious!
<popey> had it in spain
<popey> trying to make exactly the same here
<popey> its gonna be in the slow cooker all day
<davmor2> popey: you'll fail we don't get the same freshness of herbs or the same taste.  You'll get close though I bet :)
<foobarry> diplo: do u have any experience of bootstrap? my menus auto expand after deleting some columns :S
<foobarry> maybe its a setting somewhere
<diplo> Does the issue show on that site ?
<diplo> It's probably related to the active setting
<foobarry> http://bit.ly/1v7w3zC
<foobarry> yeah i was looking at active
<foobarry> after deleting carefully some rows etc
<diplo> ah you used that layouy ? Looks much better
<foobarry> the menus auto exp
<foobarry> there's some great stuff here to use
<diplo> yeah I re-wrote our e-commerce admin backend all in bootstrap, made it so much easier to use
<diplo> So you're deleting some html and then the menus stay auto expanded ?
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> might be due to page size or something
<foobarry> only deleted rows and cols
<foobarry> still works in this version http://bit.ly/1u56DzF
<diplo> Normally stuff like that is related to a div or something not in the correct order
<foobarry> hmm
<diplo> OK, I see what you mean now
<diplo> Let me take a look
<foobarry> v kind of you
<foobarry> ah, found the section it happens in
<foobarry> when i delete the bar chart line :S
<foobarry> <div id="morris-bar-chart"></div>
<diplo> That's just from the templated code though yeah ?
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> as soon as i delete that line, the menus pop out
<diplo> I wonder if it's due to the style='position relative' part
<diplo> I've had some issues with that in BS recently
<foobarry> its not just that line, i deleted other and they pop out again
<foobarry> maybe there's more collapse options i need
<diplo> Maybe, just looking.. I had similar issues when I first started using it and I'm just trying to remember the cause
<diplo> Could be line 70 causing it
<foobarry> nothing sucks up a morning like css/html
<foobarry> in index.html?
<diplo> <ul> as a child element of a <ul>
<foobarry> have edited it recently, is it still line 70?
<foobarry> i see
<diplo> The second one needs to be encased in a <li> so <ul> <li><ul>stuff inside</ul></li></ul>
<foobarry> hmm, didn't fix it
<foobarry> they do collapse when you click, ..
<foobarry> might get some lunch and approach with clear head
<foobarry> actually, only my top one collapses when u click
<foobarry> "core usage/availabilty"
<diplo> Just a fyi, you don't need to close <img> tags line 155
<foobarry> ok ta
<foobarry> old habit
<diplo> heh same here
<diplo> I'll keep looking, just keep getting distracted by work ( May just copy code locally :P )
<foobarry> gonna take a copy and try shipping in a working menu from other page
<foobarry> please don't spend too much time on it...its my job after all..i saw some stackoverflow pages that might help
<diplo> It's more than likely the HTML isn't flowing correctly, pretty sure that was my issue
<diplo> I over complicated it when I first started out
<diplo> So I removed everythng an did one menu at a time I think
<foobarry> i suspect its incorrect use of menu divs
<foobarry> lunch then fresh
<foobarry> its a surprise for my boss so i not gonna spend much time this week on it while he's around
<bigcalm> I did a jquery menu system some time ago, if it's of any help: http://idophp.co.uk/projects/simple_jquery_menu/
<foobarry> if my extension comes in within budget, wife says i can get a man cave
<foobarry> wooden chalet thing in garden
<foobarry> \o/
<penguin42> ah, you mean a shed
<foobarry> no, i have a shed
<penguin42> wood, in garden, sounds like a shed
 * foobarry finds a pic
<foobarry> http://www.vividgreen.co.uk/garden-rooms/
<Myrtti> tesco sells Finnish ones :-P
<penguin42> posh shed
<Myrtti> or sold, don't know if they have them anymore
<foobarry> shed is to store clutter
<foobarry> man cave is a place to be and to do
<foobarry> diplo: my problem is resolved if i delete the menu and import the one i previously created (not part of the template)
<foobarry> the problem manifests depending on whether i use ul class="panel-collapse collapse" or ul class="nav nav-second-level"
<ali1234> popey: i wanted to do a UOS session for xubuntu but we couldn't come up with anything to talk about... maybe next time
<popey> aww
<ali1234> still, the mate session seems to have been productive for us, so that's cool
<Azelphur> I may have to revoke my previous canonical+compiz rants o.O
<Azelphur> I just did an update, and compiz randomly started itself, and everything is working, all the previous issues I had appear to be gone
<Azelphur> although, it also moved my xorg.conf which was rude of it.
<Azelphur> lol, 3d windows is broken in (standard) multi monitor setups now, I imagine most people here can replicate that :)
<Azelphur> or not...apparently the "crash and then delete all your settings" bug is still present, I was so happy for 5 minutes.
<daftykins> Azelphur: O_O
<daftykins> Azelphur: if i were you i'd have probably long ago gone to some kind of nasty two-PC setup where i just share files between two pairs of two-screen :( assuming it's only 3+ that gives you trouble
<Azelphur> daftykins: I dream of a day I can have proper quad monitor support :)
<daftykins> doesn't seem like too much to ask does it :(
<Azelphur> indeed :(
<Azelphur> I noticed some new Mosaic stuff in my xorg.conf, I should try that out
<Azelphur> maybe it'd be more successful
<ali1234> Azelphur: the actually announced the most recent compiz release on the FDO mailing list
<Azelphur> yea
<ali1234> first time that has happened in years
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: if they could fix it crashing and deleting all its settings, that'd be great.
<Azelphur> the funny part is it doesn't even reset to default, it just turns everything off, which leaves you with a nonfunctional desktop
<ali1234> yeah, i've seen that one happen
<ali1234> i think it is cos it has multiple different config backends
<Azelphur> nice to know it's not just me :)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-14
<map> damnit just got soakewd walking hoe
<map> home
<MooDoo> morning all
 * zmoylan-pi releases crow from roof to see if it can spot dry land
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: You'd be better releasing a seagull, at least it'll feel at home with all the water
<awilkins> Anyone know if a factory wipe and install on an Android phone produces better results than an over the air update
<DJones> awilkins: Its not something I've thought of, I've only ever done OTA updates, might be worth asking the people in #android
<awilkins> Good thinking
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> word
<davmor2> popey: you so street
<popey> you know it
<davmor2> morning bigcalm
<davmor2> popey: you down wiv d homies
<bigcalm> The homeless?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Loosen Up, Lighten Up Day! :-D
<ujjain> anybody knows a good proxy with authenticaiton?
<diplo> Squid ?
<awilkins> ujjain, Do you mean a proxy that will authenticate for you?
<ujjain> uh, yes, squid can do it
<ujjain> but an alternative
<ujjain> that will need authentication to use as proxy
<diplo> I integrated AD with Squid at my last place, they couldn't use the net without being logged into the domain
<diplo> But I'm afraid that's all I've ever played with so can;t offer anything else :)
<bigcalm> The connection used by cable boxes is the same as used by satellite boxes, yes?
<awilkins> I hate explicit proxies with a passion
<bigcalm> I'm about to buy a right angle adapter, but want to check 1st
<diplo> As in size yes bigcalm
<awilkins> And auth-ing proxies
<diplo> The cable ones I had were a different design, had a suppressor/filter type thing built into them, where as the sky is a standard coax digi conn
<awilkins> On my last office network, you had to auth to get an IP address
<awilkins> Therefore they knew all the MAC addresses, they could have had transparent proxies and still audited our web traffic
<bigcalm> For Â£1.45, I'll give it a go :)
<awilkins> But Squid on Windows can't do MAC addresses
<awilkins> And the ICT dept. were too dumb to install it on Linux.
<awilkins> So we were stuck with ISA server and NTLM auth
<awilkins> NTLM is a *total* pain in the bum, because huge numbers of apps can't auth that way
<awilkins> Browsers are not the only thing that use HTTP/S these days, any network administrator who traps you behind an NTLM proxy is just downright incompetent IMHO
<diplo> awilkins, +1
<awilkins> I think Eclipse on Windows can do it
<awilkins> If the wind is right and the gods are appeased
<awilkins> But getting Eclipse on Linux to update or install means you have to start invoking ungodly things like ntlmaps or using an SSH tunnel as a SOCKS 4 proxy
<awilkins> When Ubuntu One was still a thing it didn't even use the system proxy settings....
 * awilkins still thinks Ubuntu needs a single client-side proxy that knows how to do NTLM auth and everything else and will act as proxy for all the other things
<Laney> cool, get to coding
<awilkins> e.g. apps that don't have a Javascript runtime, can't parse a PAC script
<awilkins> IF you set the system proxy to a PAC script, it just passes the URI to any app that asks for the proxy setting
<awilkins> Rather than parsing the script and passing the results
<awilkins> So only browsers and a few other oddities can use a proxy that's a PAC script
<awilkins> It's a barrier to Linux desktop adoption in the enterprise
<awilkins> Because you have to fiddle to get it to work in common office network environments
 * awilkins is now happily in control of his office network environment and occasionally has to reach under his desk to reboot it
<bigcalm> I don't know if I want to shake my fist at the V Box for it's orientation of the scart socket or the manufacturers for not making a 270deg right angled scart cable
<diplo> Scart?!?!?!?!
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> diplo: yep. The VirginMedia V Box doesn't have HDMI out, only scart
<bigcalm> Quite a disappointment, but essentially free to me
<diplo> Really, been a fair few years since I've been with Virgin
<bigcalm> I doubt that they give out this box to new customers now.
<bigcalm> Oh flip: Standard Delivery 7 - 23 days
<diplo> This for the coax plug ?
<bigcalm> Guess I'm in no rush for the 270deg HDMI  adaptor
<bigcalm> diplo: the right angle coax adapter is shipped from the UK
<diplo> ah right
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> JamesTait: Englishman, Irishman and a Scotsman, walk into a bar, bartender says "What is this some sort of joke?"
<davmor2> bigcalm: yes only the hd boxes have hdmi, as they are the only ones that produce hd images :P
<JamesTait> davmor2, http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot
<davmor2> JamesTait: what it's a nice joke, it's clean, and you smiled :P so it lightened your day :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, I won't dispute any of that. ;)
<popey> I see davmor2 has broken out the christmas crackers a bit early.
<davmor2> popey: well it was that or the Nuns and the blindman
<bigcalm> This is why right angle adaptors are needed: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/bshrb5yhhya1slg/AADOVDkxcB-seDuJcc-RJc2Ga
<bigcalm> Main culprits are the very stiff coax cable and HDMI cable
<nigelb> `
<ujjain> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Under-Armour-Original-Boxerjock-Extented/dp/B005CR5GK0 WARNING NUDE MAN, can anybody see how many boxer shorts there are?
<ujjain> ah, just 1 i think
<ujjain> is buying new clothes from ebay weird?
<foobarry> used clothes?
<ujjain> new cltohes
<ujjain> not used
<foobarry> no, ebay is just a shop innit
<ujjain> also, a recruiter sends me a message if I want to be a Linux SME, what is that?
<ujjain> innit!
<ujjain> yeah, I guess
<davmor2> ujjain: to quote czajkowski "Self Made Eejit" at a guess ;)
 * czajkowski peers at davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: don't tell me I spelt Eejit wrong?  I was just guessing what SME stood for :)
<davmor2> ujjain: in reality it is Linux Small to Medium Enterprise :)
<ujjain> ahhhh
<ujjain> Small to Medium Enterprise, interesting
<foobarry> http://io9.com/notepad-illusions-look-like-3d-sculptures-but-theyre-2-1657908192?utm_content=buffer38622&utm_medium=social&utm_source=plus.google.com&utm_campaign=buffer
<ujjain> it says something else here http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sme&defid=6279133
<foobarry> cute
<ujjain> I would like to print that out
<ujjain> "Pocket Money Loans" a new loan service for kids, has opened in London < haha :D
<ujjain> http://www.pocketmoneyloans.com/
<foobarry> oh dear
<ujjain>  We offer quick, cheap* loans to kids aged 3+ at competitive rates**. Whatever you need it for, Pocket Money Loans allow you to live beyond your means!
<foobarry> Representative example Amount of credit: Â£10 for 18 days. Interest: Â£24.65. Interest rate: 246%pa (fixed).Transmission fee: Â£5.50. Total repayment of: Â£40.15 plus late payment charge of Â£20 rolled over for next 18 days plus interest
<foobarry> i think its a joke
<christel> isnt that that slight bizarre art installation in finsbury park?
<christel> well, i say "art"
<christel> i am sure there was something about it on bbc news the other week
<MartijnV1S> isnt most "art" these days
<foobarry>  on until we take you for everything you have and you lay awake at night with the stress boiling in your veins, g
<foobarry> yes its "satire"
<ujjain> :D
<penguin42> oh wow, that's very nicely done
<diddledan> morning
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> just bought two .je domains (the island of Jersey beside me) and two .gg domains for a client, 12 months only - Â£332.
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> that's expensive
<daftykins> granted their price halves for renewal vs. register, but ugh
<daftykins> yeah i've been meaning to kick a local politician to ask why they allow this
<diddledan> is that each or for all four?
<daftykins> all four
<diddledan> still expensive
<daftykins> http://www.mtgsy.net/domains/domain_pricelist.php
<daftykins> .co.gg is Â£60 reg and Â£29 renewal, but .gg is Â£83 and Â£47 respectively
<diddledan> jee, and I thought my .at was expensive at approx 20â¬
<diddledan> (it's a vanity)
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> I have it as my shorturl - go.bwlh.at - my "company" is "Bowl Hat" so it's about the shortest url I could get that still makes sense
<daftykins> i've been given a free 40GB Intel V-Series SSD :D
<diddledan> lucky
<daftykins> haha nice one :D
<awilkins> Groovy
<awilkins> Make it into a bcache volume or something
<daftykins> i've got one already in my little HTPC and know of somewhere else where there's one spare
<daftykins> not a *clue* what use they could be though
<awilkins> bcache!
<daftykins> all of my systems (server, laptop, desktop) are already SSD based
<awilkins> I have a 32GB mSATA in my laptop
<awilkins> Hmm
<daftykins> what does that do? :P
<daftykins> also i don't run a desktop Linux
 * daftykins ducks
<awilkins> Backing cache for a larger piece of spinning rust
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> yeah no, zero benefit for me :)
<awilkins> Laptop has 32GB mSATA + 750 GB of rust
<daftykins> ah i guess that's one of the intel RST for Windows setup ones
<awilkins> Yes
<awilkins> Laptop arrived with RST configured
<daftykins> glad to hear Loonix can actually do something with it
<awilkins> Yeah, it is after all, just another drive
<daftykins> i keep seeing people just installing the OS to the SSDs then running out of space :D
<awilkins> Once you destroy the RAID 0 volume on it, it's a normal drive
<daftykins> yeah, used them pretty extensively
<daftykins> a friend had bought a windows 8 asus ultrabook which was the very first one i used
<awilkins> Even OS on the SSD and home folder on the rust would have been pretty cool
<daftykins> i hadn't slept and had to learn how to do EFI installs of windows XD
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> what i tend to say is to symlink ~/$Media_folder_here onto the HDD, so that . files can remain on the SSD too, keeping apps fast
<daftykins> so e.g. your browser profiles and much more don't get bogged down
<daftykins> if you put the whole /home on mechanical, it wouldn't be as great i suspect
<awilkins> Yeah, hence bcache - no longer have to think about it
<awilkins> Commonly access blocks end up on the SSD, done
<hexxeh> bcache does in software what seagate does in hardware
<hexxeh> a co-worker managed to get ramdisk bcache working, for VM use
<daftykins> ooh funky
<awilkins> Wait, does it dedupe?
<daftykins> shame my gear is all DDR2 and RAM constrained :(
<diddledan> seagates are smaller on the SSD part tho
<diddledan> a 1TB comes with 8GB SSD?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> can't wait for 3D NAND to become mainstream
<daftykins> so much better than MLC and TLC
<diddledan> it obviously helps but a dedicated ssd is probably going to be better IMO
<daftykins> definitely, depends if you want capacity in the mobile front i guess
<daftykins> i never did, but then the Crucial MX100 512GB is so cheap now, i got one anyway XD
<diddledan> yeah I find that 256GB per OS is kinda the minimum I can work with these days
<diddledan> hence why I upgraded my macbook pro to a 512GB SSD
<diddledan> half is osx and the other is ubuntu
<daftykins> *nod*
<hexxeh> will get 1T SSD and no rust in my next PC. whenever that ends up happening. sigh
<daftykins> i put my old 256GB in here as my steam cache drive, but damn it filled fast :D
<daftykins> all these free origin/steam titles of late (that've all been utterly rubbish)
<diddledan> I need to upgrade the hdd in my work laptop - it's dog slow at bootup
<daftykins> (Metro 2033, dragon age origins, i'm looking at you)
<diddledan> takes about 10 minutes before it's usable
<daftykins> eww
<daftykins> OS?
<diddledan> ubuntu or windows - both as bad as eachother
<hexxeh> right now i have os on ssd, home on rust
<diddledan> hexxeh, that's how I like to run when I have an hdd available
<hexxeh> it sucks for steam tho
<diddledan> I still worry about ssd writecycles though I don't suppose it's a valid concern these days
<daftykins> it's easy to get paranoid about that, yeah
<diddledan> I need chocolate
<diddledan> I've re-discovered skittles, too
<daftykins> uh-oh
<daftykins> slippery slope
<diddledan> skittles are like crack
<diddledan> you need ever more and it leads to the hard stuff
<foobarry> samsung just gave me Â£30 \o/
<diddledan> though I've not worked out what "the hard stuff" is yet. when I do, I'll certainly give it a go
<diddledan> foobarry, ?
<diddledan> why they do dat?
<foobarry> part of their market research thing
<diddledan> wow
<foobarry> i foten get 10-15 a month from them
<foobarry> so giving my opinion about new gimmick
<foobarry> ^so^for
<penguin42> diddledan: I don't know; I've lost 2 (low end SSDs) at less than 6 months old, and I know someone whose Chrome Pixel has just died and he thinks that's the (soldered in) SSD; so SSDs are lovely and fast and generally last OK, but I think the worry is still worth it
<diddledan> hmm
<bigcalm> Can anybody recommend a sound bar that will work with a linux desktop? Tempted to put one on my office wall
<daftykins> don't they tend to have anlogue outputs 0o
<daftykins> or inputs, rather
<bigcalm>  daftykins: no idea, the amazon details appear to concentrate on the wireless options
<daftykins> ugh
<daftykins> use manufacturer specs instead, amazon is tripe for such details
<bigcalm> Possible option: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-HW-F350-inch-Soundbar-Sound/dp/B00BYWFB16
<bigcalm> Now that I live in a detached house, it would be nice to have some decent sound in my office (while my wife is at work of course)
 * bigcalm added it to his wish list
<daftykins> yeah that's not even clear on there how it connects XD
<penguin42> bigcalm: Yes, that is the primary advantage of a detached, and similarly from not having to deal with the neighbours doing the same
<daftykins> though being paired up with an optical cable is a clue
<daftykins> i doubt most would have optical out on their PCs, it's always a must for the onboard audio for my purchases
<daftykins> although i'm using digital coaxial at the moment 0o
<bigcalm> My Dell Alienware X51 has an optical socket
<popey> yeah, my desktop has optical out too
 * bigcalm goes to get the sittingroom stereo to see if it works
<popey> tempting!
 * penguin42 has never used optical audio, but their again my audio choices are pretty basic
<Dave2> My desktop machine has TWO optical sockets
<Dave2> both work
<Dave2> well, it actually has 4
<Dave2> 2 sets of.
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> bigcalm: alienware :( for shame
<bigcalm> daftykins: work bought it for me
<bigcalm> Optical works :D
<daftykins> my PC is so old i only get proper surround output with XP :( 7 has only ever treated it as stereo
<daftykins> bitstreamed formats still work of course
<daftykins> but then optical is only two channel, amusingly
<popey> i miss having loud speakers on my pc
<popey> also tempted to get a sound bar for the new telly in the lounge
<bigcalm> Tempted to buy 2 sound bars. One for my office and one to replace the hi-fi in the sittingroom
<daftykins> some friends were trying to tell me that they got a true '3D' sound effect from one in a shop the other day
<bigcalm> The hi-fi is so broken that it only acts as an amplifier now
<daftykins> haha
<diddledan> nectar (sainsbury's third-party loyalty scheme) have emailed me to tell me that they're going to email me
<daftykins> my parents have managed to murder the optical drives in a lot of my old micro component ones
<daftykins> turning them into radios =|
<daftykins> diddledan: nice!
<diddledan> "Make sure you keep an eye out for your Points Update in your inbox next week."
<bigcalm> Cassette and CD are both broken. I think that the MiniDisk might still work though
<diddledan> bigcalm, yeah but who uses minidisk?
<daftykins> minidisc \o/
<daftykins> i gave mine all away :(
<diddledan> who _ever_ used minidisk?
<daftykins> i did
<daftykins> i'm that guy!
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> it was actually a brilliant portable player medium pre-MP3-players in the ~2000 school time era for me
<diddledan> minidisk disd as well as the followup UMD
<diddledan> did*
<daftykins> lots of school mates got them, and i had two as well
<daftykins> that was more the format for the PSP and films though right?
<daftykins> so it wasn't quite the same thing
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Media_Disc
<penguin42> it's a shame they at one point had minidisk data drives for an unholy price too late; they could have been a success but then Zip came along
<daftykins> penguin42: oh wow, did not know - i'd imagine they were quite low capacity given i think all audio formats involved compression though, no?
<daftykins> my later generation one supported long-play modes
<daftykins> ATRAC, that was the one
<penguin42> daftykins: Wikipedia says 140MB in early 90's
<daftykins> ah-har
<penguin42> daftykins: It was at about the same time as Zip drives and ZIps were 100MB
<daftykins> is it my warped perception, or do optical formats always lag behind their media-based introduction, when it comes to drives in computers?
<penguin42> but they were dirt cheap
<daftykins> alright, time to try out lucozade "cloudy lemonade" 0o
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> silly question of the day, if a laptop mains adapter is plugged in but not at the end - do you think it consumes anything 0o
<foobarry> yes a little bit
<daftykins> i guess it's running the caps a bit isn't it
<foobarry> seems to remain warm innit
<foobarry> rather low though
<foobarry> my mobile charger makes a high pitched noise
<daftykins> hrmm anyone know of an SSD secure erase prog available in ubuntu these days?
<daftykins> yeah on some stag do trip to Brighton a bit ago, a mate plugged in his amazon charger into a socket about my head in the hostel - ugh that was annoying :>
<penguin42> daftykins: The right way to do an SSD erase is to use secure erase using hdparm
<daftykins> ah yes that should have it, ty sir
<penguin42> daftykins: https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase
<bigcalm> Horribly tempted to buy a sound bar from Tesco tomorrow
<bigcalm> Grr
<daftykins> hrmm mind you this HP craptop has an nvidia chipset i think, they tend to block the commands
<penguin42> daftykins: Of course you don't actually know whether it's really wiped everything
<daftykins> yeah :D it's just a friends drive though so not mission critical thankfully
<penguin42> right, so just their credit card details and porn
<diddledan> porn!
<diddledan> copy that off first
<foobarry> i have had more joy deleting the stuff in the past
<diddledan> sorry, family friendly. family friendly. family friendly.
<daftykins> penguin42: the finest of all \o/
 * diddledan chants while rocking slightly back-and-forth
<foobarry> and deleting dubiously acquired mp3 libraries stored onthe network drive
<daftykins> now if only this HP heap would boot 14.04 in a timely fashion
<daftykins> hah GPU lockup from nouveau, nice
<diddledan> is it an optimus?
<daftykins> nah
<daftykins> 'failed to idle channel'
<daftykins> ancient HP with AMD Athlon X2 laptop
<daftykins> it was being run into the ground approaching a thermal death before i took it apart and degunked it
<daftykins> it was too late for the optical drive though
<foobarry> i was using the terminal only on a asus apsire revo and nouveau hung and crashed on me
<foobarry> had to turn off pc
<foobarry> that was this morning \o/
<daftykins> haha, yeah i used this thing to pull off data from a windows HDD for a friend the other day
<daftykins> had to do everything CLI based as X was being really unhappy
<daftykins> must've looked like genius to them :(
<foobarry> or a hacker
<foobarry> in green text
<daftykins> funny part is i'm totally comfortable with drive mounts and so on, but i don't have the slightest clue of command line searching :D
<daftykins> though it wasn't relevant as i just went into the docs folder naturally
<daftykins> ooh now we have a BUG: soft lockup CPU#0 stuck for 22s
<daftykins> truthfully, unity makes ubuntu useless for the kinds of live session tasks i perform
<daftykins> need a basic 2D only 32-bit build really
<penguin42> daftykins: That's normally the fallout from something else - like your graphics driver
<daftykins> yeah, it was labelled Xorg
<daftykins> so definitely part and parcel
<daftykins> uh-oh my cat is in investigate mode
<daftykins> huzzah reboot and X is up with only minor corruption
<diddledan> kittycuddle!
<daftykins> she's a right kneader, super sharp claws :(
<diddledan> :-(
<daftykins> ugh why has the live session prompted me for user
<daftykins> (just ran a sleep)
<daftykins> ubuntu and blank
<daftykins> yay sleep unfroze it \o/
<daftykins> 19 seconds to secure erase a 40GB :D
<foobarry> hmm
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh, it does make you wonder if it's really all there
<foobarry> "secure erase"
<foobarry> secure erase involves writing data
<penguin42> daftykins: I ran a dd on it after that I think for good luck
<daftykins> penguin42: well, all it's really got to do is tell the controller to stop tracking the allocations
<daftykins> foobarry: nope
<daftykins> not for an SSD
<penguin42> daftykins: No, I think secure erase is supposed to tell the flash to actually wipe the data
<daftykins> oh like randomise every cell too? hrmm
<foobarry> tells the aroms to look that way -->
<penguin42> daftykins: Well, not sure about randomise, but I assume you can tell a flash chip to do a block erase or something ?
<daftykins> thing is the data is irretrievable once you tell a controller to forget its' table of cells mapped to LBAs
<penguin42> irretrivable to who?
<daftykins> it's kinda like giving someone a single disk of a multi disk RAID
<daftykins> anyone i should think, because the original consecutive LBAs are no longer known
<daftykins> and all electrons are let out of the logic gates, so there's no data to read
<penguin42> if it was just losing the block tracking I bet you could extract useful chunks
<ali1234> so what?
<daftykins> if you read data by assessing voltages across gates though, there are no longer electrons present to portray any data
<ali1234> the pages on flash are in the kilobyte range
<ali1234> that means an entire email fits on one page
<ali1234> it doesn't matter if you wipe the LBAs
<penguin42> and you can probably fit together blocks to find consistent results for things like jpegs
<ali1234> easily
<daftykins> lol that laptop has just started rapidly blinking the display
<penguin42>  'my mind...'
<daftykins> i'm confused as to how you believe you could retrieve data from totally blanked NAND?
<ali1234> you can't
<ali1234> that isn't what you said though
<penguin42> daftykins: not from totally blanked, but you originally said just losing the tracking info from the controller
<daftykins> oh right from that part
<daftykins> ok, that's fair
<daftykins> lol @ hdparm referring to 'mdma' modes
<diddledan> deletion in nand is not technically possible - you can mimic it by having cells that can be written to more than once by rearranging the connections but every write doesn't overwrite the original data
<daftykins> not writes, but a flash lets all the electrons out
<diddledan> so dd won't do squat to scupper a forensic
<ali1234> you mean overwriting
<ali1234> nand is erased at higher voltages than writing
<diddledan> all dd will do is reduce the lifespan of the drive
<penguin42> diddledan: dd forces the controller to perform erases on the blocks before it does the writes
<daftykins> you'd have to write to all the LBAs a little over once, to consume the spare area too, i should think
<ali1234> the spare area is only used in the event of errors
<daftykins> not true in every implementation i believe, some use it for garbage collection
<diddledan> penguin42, that's what TRIM does without reducing the lifespan
<daftykins> so that might be controller dependant
<penguin42> diddledan: Well, there's no guarantee TRIM will cause it to do the erase
<ali1234> no, trim notifies the controller when the filesystem has unallocated blocks
<diddledan> penguin42, not immediately, no
<penguin42> diddledan: And if your interest is ensuring your data isn't on the drive, TRIM is thus useless
<ali1234> trim reduces fragmentation
<ali1234> except it isn't really fragmentation any more, it's lookup-table clogging instead
<penguin42> (of course the easier answer to this is that you should have encrypted the drive and then it's dead easy to wipe the key)
<daftykins> lol - https://www.dropbox.com/s/f58nti2qscuj9dv/IMG_20141114_163717.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> at work we use percussive-erase
<daftykins> s/erase/access blocking/ ;)
<diddledan> we have a special device which we use
<diddledan> I believe the layman refers to it as "whacking it with a heavy hammer"
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ae4t0a52smshfss/mischiefupdate.png?dl=0
<daftykins> where's the cat gone 0o
<diddledan> daftykins, is that your terminal?
<daftykins> haha, i think it was the craptop with nouveau issues trying to screensaver
<diddledan> it looks like there's a small issue, but it's unclear
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> geary is looking pretty good these days
<ali1234> and fast too
<daftykins> what's that?
<ali1234> the new email client
<ali1234> well, it's not new any more
<daftykins> upon what? :)
<ali1234> windows/mac/linux?
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> i remember mail clients.
<ali1234> i was just reading about google inbox
<ali1234> so i figured i better find a plan b in case they roll that out to everyone
<daftykins> i figured it's a separate app
<daftykins> hope it stays that way
<Myrtti> Google Inbox gives me the sads
<ali1234> it is, a separate app that runs in a browser
<ali1234> i mean it looks okay on a phone. the problem is the desktop version is just a giant phone app
<Myrtti> a tip from a friendly Googler is that you're supposed to leave feedback, one issue per feedback
<Myrtti> they'll do a quantitative collection of keywords
<ali1234> i don't have an invite yet
<daftykins> i turned off all that priority inbox crap when they brought that out too
<daftykins> and avoid 'Hangouts'
<Myrtti> I've already whined about lack of signatures, lack of defining which email address to send from, lack of notification configuration on Android, lack of easy filter management, lack of bundle unread numbers, and lack of configurability of the "Done" function
<Myrtti> I love all that, they all help in my Inbox 0 obsession
<daftykins> i'm not fond of gimmicks
<ali1234> wow, in geary you can watch the "all mail" count change in real time
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/andigutmans/status/533311231533547520/photo/1
<diddledan> funny
<diddledan> I occasionally pop humour into a commit message in the hopes that I might make someone giggle further-down-the-line
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> haha nice
<diddledan> hornet's nest? http://www.jonobacon.org/2014/11/14/ubuntu-governance-reboot/
<diddledan> it's certainly a good goal, but I have no experience of the councils first-hand so I'm not the right person to comprehend the situation - interesting though
<brobostigon> does anyone know much about openpgp smart cards, please.
<diddledan> brobostigon, I'd like to investigate those, too at some point
<brobostigon> diddledan: ok, cool,
<dutchie> who's good for hard disks nowadays?
<dutchie> (manufacturer wise)
<daftykins> go by warranty length i say
<daftykins> what's the 1) form factor? 2) capacity? 3) use-case?
<dutchie> 3.5", >= 2T, storing videos/music
<daftykins> 24/7 operation or does it go off a lot?
<diddledan> I always go western dig
<daftykins> diddledan: +1
<dutchie> err
<dutchie> probably 24/7
<daftykins> WD Red then i'd say
<diddledan> +1
<dutchie> what does "red" mean?
<daftykins> 3 year warranty standard, you can pay about Â£5 to add another year via certificates
<daftykins> it's the model line
<daftykins> WD's drives are colour coded by usage
<daftykins> i got a few cheap from amazon UK not long ago :)
<diddledan> red is designed for 24/7 potentially in a raid alongside several others
<diddledan> it's effectively enterprise for consumers
<diddledan> I think they rate them as suitable for up-to 6 in a single housing with no ill effects from vibration and noise
<diddledan> electronic noise that is
<dutchie> that's nice
<diddledan> I don't touch the greenies if I can help it
<diddledan> blue is ok, for a lappy IMO
<diddledan> black in a desktop, and red in a NAS
<diddledan> or red in a server of any kind really
<daftykins> yip nice 5 year warranty default on a black
<dutchie> thanks guys
<DJones> Watch out all of you who are doingsupport for Microsoft networks, you've got competition http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30054140
<zmoylan-pi> you see these news stories every few years and you wonder if it's the parents hothousing the poor kids into it
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: my sentiments exactly
<zmoylan-pi> then again that's probably what gave us the music of mozart
<daftykins> "and maybe son, if you study for this next module i'll let you see your teddy bear again!"
<m0nkey_> Anyone spot the computer joke? "but in Ayan's case he has _cached_ this opportunity"
<daftykins> no i must say that one flew by, much like that boy's childhood ;)
<diddledan> the microsoft certifications are mind-numbing
<diddledan> the material assumes you don't have a clue
<diddledan> i.e. it's dumbed down and explains the simplest of concepts that a 5yo would understand. oh yeah.
<diddledan> it's mostly training to become a parrot
<daftykins> i don't even know what the content is like
<daftykins> in terms of topics
<daftykins> mostly newbie clicking around i'd suspect? :>
<diddledan> doesn't actually tell you anything about the concepts, but instead "click this button. well done. you can now type a name and there's a magical 'user' on the network"
<awilkins_> nick CMDR_Barnowl
<diddledan> users are these magical things that exist "in the network"
<diddledan> it doesn't actually explain any of the technical stuff. just how to click buttons
<diddledan> also, don't trust A+ or N+ certs. they're even worse
<diddledan> taking your computer to someone who claims boldly that they're A+ certified doesn't mean squat. so he can name the major blocks inside a laser printer. that doesn't mean he knows how to fix it when it breaks
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> hint, there's 5 major blocks inside a laser printer. such as "roller" and "fuser"
<daftykins> figured as much
<daftykins> i was in class late one day in my A-Level level ICT course at a college when the lecturer asked me to give him some common desktop resolutions for his A+ class he was about to take
<daftykins> by take i mean teach
<diddledan> how about "I will turn the desktop off every night to save power"?
<diddledan> that's going to be my desktop resolution from now on
<daftykins> eh?
<daftykins> :P
<diddledan> that's a good example actually - just what constitutes a "common resolution"? that windows will offer the option? that it's supported by the bulk of monitors? do they want widescreen or 4:3?
<diddledan> and if widescreen does that mean 16:9 or 16:10?
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> it was about 2002/3 at the time so LCDs hadn't really become widespread yet
<directhex> windows will offer 4:3 modes only, if your monitor doesn't present valid EDID, afaik
<directhex> e.g. in a VM with no driver for the GPU
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> other than doing a degree it's a little concerning to think i've done very little since then, over 10 years ago D:
<diddledan> I'm lucky to have zero IT qualifications :-p
<zmoylan-pi> what's the standard res of atm's? they're fairly common :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, they all run on XP IIRC
<diddledan> I expect they're runing 320x240 screens or maybe the extra graphical ones running 640x480 (retina!)
<daftykins> XP embedded *shudder*
<daftykins> lol retina, more like multi-cone
<daftykins> (if colour)
<diddledan> grr @ ie9
<diddledan> I have a padding on <body> and an element absolutely positioned inside that padded area which isn't renered in IE
<diddledan> IE9
<diddledan> moving it so that part of it is inside the non-padded area and it shows up
<diddledan> including bits that are in the padded area
<daftykins> web dev must be such fun ;D
<diddledan> ooooohhhh
<diddledan> damned IE
<diddledan> it's because a parent elephant uses an IE-specific feature to generate a gradient that other browsers can do normally
<daftykins> :|
<daftykins> diddledan: do you game much?
<daftykins> i see the earlier Far Cry games are Â£7.50 on Steam today
<directhex> note: far cry 4 is not on steam
<diddledan> I wish I could say yes, but I never get a round tuit
<daftykins> directhex: it is a shame the world can't refuse to buy ubisoft products from now on
<diddledan> speaking of games. just what exactly is all this gamergate business?
<daftykins> oh lordy please no
<directhex> oy.
<daftykins> i don't know and i don't even want to see a convo about it
<daftykins> D:
<directhex> you really want to open that can of bears?
<diddledan> I don't know until I know what the problem is
<directhex> i should point out before answering that i am biased on this topic, and am the proud owner of a very limited edition anti-gamergate t-shirt
 * daftykins holds a chloroform rag over diddledan's mouth ("does this smell funny to you?") and drags him off to a chair in the corner, to forget he ever asked
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> daftykins, you been watching mrs brown?!
<daftykins> i don't use broadcast TV sir
<diddledan> doesn't have to have been via broadcast - coulda been streamied or downloaded
<directhex> gamergate is a self-identified group, coalesced around a hashtag (but found in other online places like reddit & 8chan). they have no clear goals, methods, desires, rules, regulations, membership requirements, etc. they just are.
<daftykins> true, i intended just then to add "nor do i obtain any current or recent British TV" :)
<zmoylan-pi> think of anonmous gone feral
<zmoylan-pi> *anonymous
<diddledan> so what's the issue with them?
<diddledan> sorry, I should stop asking
<diddledan> e.g. I saw a vid by Felicia "The Guild" Day about how she saw a pair of dudes in gamer tees and crossed over the road in case they weren't friendly - what is it that has her scared?
<directhex> the hashtag started as a new name for an existing online "thing", "the quinnspiracy". 4chan attacking an indie game dev for being a dirty slut because her ex said she was & the world imploded.
<zmoylan-pi> they thought that a female game reviewer having a brief relationship with a manager at a gaming comany was some sort of conspiracy and started threatening her
<directhex> female game developer, and writer for a gaming site. but not far off, zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> sorry, my bad.  trying to avoid the bile and nastiness that spews around the whole story
<directhex> it didn't even really start with the quinnspiracy. that was just an event on a timeline
<directhex> it also didn't start with "tropes vs women", 2 years ago. that was also just an event on a timeline
<directhex> our story really goes back to 1984.
<diddledan> dang
<directhex> in 1984, the home computer revolution (i.e. spectrum, commodore, etc) were advertised on TV for xmas. and every single ad was gendered. in 1983, computers were for boys & girls alike. in 1984, they were for boys only. the rate at which young women were enrolling in computer science degrees dropped off & has never recovered in 30 years.
<directhex> and since the home computer revolution was also about games, it cemented the idea of games being for boys only.
 * zmoylan-pi remembers the hulabaloo over barbarian and game over advertising from back then
<directhex> so what gamergate *is* is hard to quantify. since there's no membership criteria it's hard to say "gamergate did X" or "gamergate did Y". but it's clear that there is *strong* overlap between gamergate's communities, and other communities which might be seen as unpleasant - e.g. men's rights activists, white supremacists, hard-right wing libertarians
<directhex> their main rallying cry these days is that it's just about ethics in games journalism. but their primary targets are women who advocate for socially liberal positions like "it would be nice for more playable women in games"
<directhex> and whilst they might not do it themselves, when gamergate picks a target, that target starts getting death/rape threats to their home, phones, family's addresses, etc
<directhex> hence http://chainsawsuit.com/comic/2014/10/15/the-perfect-crime/
<directhex> so that's why the felicia day thing, diddledan. because now a group of hundreds or thousands, claiming to speak for all gamers (i.e. you are not a gamer if you are not with them), has been... spotted at the scene of the crime when several women have been chased from their homes & jobs for the crime of being women in gaming
<diddledan> that's bad
<diddledan> I have no superlatives
<directhex> a lot of the negative acts being connected to gamergate is actually third-party trolls. but the misogyny is all their own.
<zmoylan-pi> and it's showing up twitter as very sub par at cracking down on trolls
<Azelphur> yay, gamergate crap
<directhex> sorry. diddledan asked.
<diddledan> that explains the gamergate-inspired blacklist service
<diddledan> for the twits
<diddledan> I found it the other day and promptly forgot about it
<Azelphur> directhex, the "nice for more playable women in games thing" is pretty bullshit these days
<Azelphur> directhex: I'm one hell of a bastard when it comes to absolute neutrality :)
<diddledan> I don't think "playable women" is necessarily a problem - more it's a desire for "playable women that aren't half naked even when they're wearing armour"
<ali1234> i once read a balanced summary of gamergate but now i can't find it
<directhex> diddledan, yeah. one technique that's been in use for 3 months is for any negative tweet about gamergate to be met with dozens or hundreds of replies. varying from concern trolling to threats. so frebsdgirl's system is simple - if you follow multiple GG ringleaders, you're not worth listening to
<Azelphur> diddledan: now flip it over, find a game with playable men that aren't built like the hulk.
<directhex> Azelphur, men like the hulk is a male power fantasy. chainmail bikinis are... a male power fantasy.
<diddledan> Azelphur, bingo - I want "normal" people in games, no matter their gender
<Azelphur> directhex: nope, if you're going to make an argument you need to be able to flip the operands around and still have it come out neutral, otherwise you're fighting an obviously not neutral point.
<Azelphur> directhex: I can assure you shirtless hulk-driven men are not a male power fantasy
<zmoylan-pi> well for 10% of male population...
<Azelphur> and also, there are boatloads of games that have reasonably dressed playable female characters as well
<directhex> and just like that, Azelphur disporves the action movie genre. arnue disappears in a puff of smoke
<diddledan> lol
<Azelphur> arnue?
<daftykins> arnie, typo
<Azelphur> daftykins: so what you're saying is that no women like shirtless Arnie?
<Azelphur> I think most women would...ya know, disagree with that point.
<daftykins> i'm correcting a typo ;_;
<daftykins> ;D
<Azelphur> as I said, you have to be able to flip the operands in order to remain neutral, if scantily clad women in video games isn't ok, scantily clad men in video games is also not ok.
<diddledan> it's nuts that there's three of us with exactly the same length of name that to a quick glance all look alike
<ali1234> Azelphur: logic has no place in this argument
<Azelphur> ali1234: indeed, if often doesn't, but then as I said I'm one hell of an ass when it comes to being actually neutral :)
<Azelphur> rule 1 of being neutral: by the end of it, everybody hates you
<ali1234> yes, absolutely agree on that one
<directhex> generally, no. arnie isn't meant to appeal to women. see also http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/05-the-death-of-snkrs/falseequivalence/
<ali1234> that's generally the easiest way to tell the argument isn't worth your time
<Azelphur> directhex: heh, every single woman I've asked has a major lady crush on Thor for example.
<diddledan> I've got a lady crush on thor
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> directhex: if we're linking comics, I like this one http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/i-wish-there-were-more-strong-female-characters-in-video-games.jpg
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-15
<Azelphur> the last slide is a tad silly, but the rest of it gets the point across reasonably well
<directhex> funny to see borderlands listed as an example
<directhex> GG went ape over borderlands TPS acknowledging the existence of lesbians
<Azelphur> been meaning to buy it, but haven't played it yet :)
<directhex> "SJW INFILTRATION! VIDYA ARE DOOMED!" etc
<daftykins> it's fun co-op
<Azelphur> directhex: heh, I'm not GG, I'm the neutral ass as previously mentioned :)
<directhex> borderlands is our main husband-and-wife game. we're on TPS now.
<Azelphur> no problem with the lesbian thing (in fact I couldn't really care less, I'd probably skip the cut scene so I could get back to shooting things)
<ali1234> the cut scenes are the most entertaining part of that game really
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> the shooting is okay but it gets boring after about 10 hours
<directhex> it gets boring, solo. it's much more fun co-op
<Azelphur> directhex: also being the neutral ass, I do have some points on the opposite side though, that chick from Soul Caliber is just ridiculous
<ali1234> which one?
<Azelphur> ali1234: Ivy
<directhex> Azelphur, some of those examples on your link are ridiculous. i think it's probably fair to say http://i2.listal.com/image/469481/936full-x--blades-cover.jpg is not a representation designed by a woman to make women feel empowered
<Azelphur> looks like something you'd expect to find in your average BDSM magazine xD
<ali1234> blanes?
<Azelphur> directhex: of course it isn't, games in general aren't supposed to be designed for that.
<directhex> Azelphur, it's not just ivy in soul calibur. http://www.gamefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/soul-calibur-boobs.jpg
<directhex> Azelphur, what do you mean?
<Azelphur> directhex: games aren't meant to be designed to make a woman feel empowered
<Azelphur> that's...not a games function
<Azelphur> (why doesn't this toaster make me a coffee, dammit!)
<directhex> Azelphur, games are about feeling powerful and you getting your way. for the most part.
<Azelphur> uwot
<daftykins> Azelphur: for some reason i want to say "because you... haven't modded it before" in the voice of Lawrence Fishburne from The Matrix #1
<Azelphur> directhex: no, games are about fun
<Azelphur> daftykins: haha
<directhex> Azelphur, games are about whatever the designer wants them to be.
<directhex> and winning is fun
<directhex> how many games end on an entirely negative note? i can think of a few.
<Azelphur> directhex: true, but most games certainly aren't about feeling powerful and getting your own way
<Azelphur> I'd love to hear how that applies to some of the most popular games (such as, say 2048)
<directhex> survival horror isn't
<Azelphur> I guess you're a real macho man if you can get that 2048 down ;)
<ali1234> "most popular games"
<directhex> now we're bringing web puzzles into it? that;s disingenuous and you know it
<Azelphur> oh, console games?
<ali1234> directhex: wait, are you making the argument that you're not a real gamer if you play web games?
<directhex> AAA. platform doesn't really matter
<Azelphur> directhex: how about the most recent game me and all of my friends have purchased and been playing
<Azelphur> TableTop simulator, real macho.
<directhex> ali1234, i'm making the argument that abstract puzzle games don't really feature in discussions of player portrayal
<Azelphur> oh ok, Puzzle games are out, lets see here...
<ali1234> what about a game like FTL?
<Azelphur> ali1234: indeed, macho :P
<ali1234> i love that game, but only on easy
 * penguin42 still hasn't got 2048
<directhex> Azelphur, it was your graphic. i didn't see any puzzles on it.
<Azelphur> directhex: you know what we should be fighting against rather than "there's this one game where a girl has ridiculously big boobs on"
<Azelphur> http://xkcd.com/322/ <-- this crap
<Azelphur> that's the kind of crap I clamp down on, on my game servers, and we have a bunch of regular female players who enjoy it, so I'd say I'm doing something reasonably well.
<directhex> ali1234, FTL doesn't portray gender in anything. your crew are male or female, as you see fit. which is great for a game where you're building your own story
<Azelphur> because that crap makes you feel far less welcome in the community, than a game having some girl with big boobs in it.
<Azelphur> at least, in this neutral asses opinion. xD
<directhex> Azelphur, active sexism is indeed bad. and policing it to make people feel more welcome is great
<Azelphur> directhex: I do so in a neutral manner, if I saw the same crap being thrown at a guy I'd take the same response, but of course that pretty much never happens
<Azelphur> (although it has happened, amusingly)
<Azelphur> but yea, as far as it goes now days most games are fairly gender-irrelevant
<ali1234> not AAA games
<directhex> again, it depends. and especially not in AAA
<ali1234> but nearly all of those are terrible anyway
<Azelphur> well lets take a look at my steam library
<directhex> most sexism is thoughtlessness, not evildoing.
<Azelphur> Amnesia (I think the main player is a guy? dunno), Blur (No sexes), Burnout (No sexes), Counter-Strike (Male characters, but meh), FTL (no sexes), Skyrim (Admittedly has some minor things), L4D + 2  (Both sexes, gender neutral), ...
<Azelphur> and that's just the top few games I play on my steam library
<Azelphur> I think overall we're pretty good
<Azelphur> of the AAA games in my library, Counter Strikes, L4D, Portal, Trine 2, TF2, all of them are pretty ok
<directhex> counter-strike? really?
<directhex> or tf2?
<daftykins> guess i have to ignore this channel for the rest of the evening ;)
<Azelphur> directhex: go on xD
<diddledan> sorry, daftykins
<daftykins> hehehe, dw
<Azelphur> daftykins: haha
<diddledan> I feel kinda like pandora
<Azelphur> diddledan: YOU HAVE OPENED THE BOX AND SHALL RECEIVE MY USUAL RANT.
<Azelphur> directhex: I don't see how counter-strike or TF2 can be objectifying women, they don't even have any women in them. XD
<ali1234> isn't pyro supposed to be a woman?
<Azelphur> ali1234: nobody knows XD
<daftykins> someone came in #ubuntu the other day and claimed HL3 was confirmed, i know the term is a meme in a way but i still had a quick read online :(
<directhex> Azelphur, objectification is one issue amongst several. CS is a good example, since (e.g.) there are women in the real IDF and FBI (cs:go), and most of the operative groups of the earlier games too
<directhex> but not in the game
<Azelphur> directhex: so the issue is that the game only has male characters?
<directhex> you can chose a model T in any colour, as long as it's black
<directhex> Azelphur, it's one issue. games disproportionately feature only male avatars. there are women in GIGN, why aren't they playable in CS?
<Azelphur> directhex: right, gotta flip the operands then in order to remain neutral? are we also angry that there are games that only have female playable characters?
<directhex> Azelphur, can you name 3 from 2014?
<ali1234> well, can you name a AAA game with only female characters?
<Azelphur> directhex: I don't think I can name 3 games from 2014 period tbh
<Azelphur> I'm not that up to speed :)
<directhex> 2013?
<Azelphur> ali1234: Tomb Raider
<diddledan> sweet! just closed 4 issues from my current project which were preventing go-live
<ali1234> tomb raider clearly has too much fan service
<Azelphur> directhex: honestly I don't have a great deal of knowledge on the latest games, or their release dates, I just notice games I like the look of and play them.
<diddledan> just need to test in IE10 and 11 now
<diddledan> IE9 is okish
<directhex> Azelphur, you;d struggle, even if you were well versed on the topic
<directhex> Azelphur, i don't think i can name 3 female-protag-only games in 2014.
<Azelphur> directhex: well I'm not struggling to name triple A games with only female characters.
<diddledan> IE9 will suffice. I'm not concentrating any more time to making it look good there
<ali1234> the only ones i can think of are fan service games
<directhex> Azelphur, okay. name the three that come to mind for you.
<Azelphur> but, even if I was, that's not the point
<Azelphur> directhex: tomb raider, portal (1 and 2), mirrors edge.
<Azelphur> there's 4 for ya
<Azelphur> want some more?
<Azelphur> Metroids another
<ali1234> ones that have more than one player character
<diddledan> portal has a female computer! why must all computers be female?!
<Azelphur> haha
<directhex> tomb raider from 2013, or are you going for the whole franchise?
<diddledan> at least the canonical computer wasn't female. aka hal9000
<Azelphur> directhex: I was going for the whole franchise I guess, I haven't played tomb raider since the playstation 2 :)
<Azelphur> directhex: none the less, the existence of games that only have female characters wasn't the point
<Azelphur> the point was, if it's unacceptable for there to be games with only male character(s), it should also be unacceptable if you flip the operands.
<Azelphur> if it isn't, you're by definition being sexist :)
<directhex> i used the word "disproportionately". the problem isn't there being games with only one playable gender, it's needing to go back to 2007 to name 4 of them.
<Azelphur> directhex: *shrug* I probably need to go back to 2007 to name any games
<Azelphur> as I say, I don't keep up to date
<ali1234> me too
<ali1234> what's that game where everyone hated the ending?
<directhex> mass effect 3?
<Azelphur> I haven't owned a console since the PS2, and as you can see by my games library, it's all not the latest stuff https://steamcommunity.com/id/Azelphur/games/
<ali1234> yeah that
<Azelphur> ali1234: ah yea because of the guy love or something :)
<Azelphur> I giggled at how uppity everyone was getting.
<Azelphur> I think my newest AAA game is probably trine 2
<ali1234> well, in that game you can pick whether the player character is male or female right?
<Azelphur> which is circa 2011 xD
<diddledan> I expect for some having men love men in a game is as bad as having a woman that isn't in a bikini
<directhex> ali1234, in mass effect? yes.
<ali1234> but all the NPC don't change
<directhex> diddledan, for some. mass effect was banned in singapore due to gayness.
<diddledan> directhex, joy
<directhex> ali1234, right. bioware is extremely well regarded on the topic of gender portrayal, actually
<diddledan> that really is sucky
<ali1234> so do feminists approve of that game then?
<Azelphur> that flipping the operands thing works great for being really level headed and neutral, I use it all the time in my head.
<directhex> ali1234, by and large, yes.
<Azelphur> it's a great sorta morality/equality check
<directhex> it helps that jennifer hale is the better voice actress.
<ali1234> they did all the lines twice?
<directhex> yes.
<ali1234> well, half of them i guess
<directhex> but the player is only ever referred to as their surname
<Azelphur> hehehe, I apparently played Need for speed undercover more than I did Skyrim, I wonder if this makes me a bad gamer.
<directhex> so that doesn't change with gender
<directhex> and they're "they" not "her" or "him". they're clever to avoid needing anyone in the world to care about gender. other than for romance chains.
<Azelphur> quick, break out the zhe
<ali1234> GTA has never had a female PC right?
<directhex> ali1234, right.
<ali1234> assassin's creed never had one
<directhex> ali1234, ac3: liberation, on vita
<ali1234> i can't think of any other AAA games
<directhex> which is an ac game starring a black woman, and is mostly about slavery. it's interesting.
<Azelphur> directhex: you also mentioned earlier that there are select gamers who are, I guess extremists really
<Azelphur> the ones who harass people
<directhex> sure
<Azelphur> and yup, those guys are total nutjobs
<directhex> and people doing harassing who aren't even gamers.
<Azelphur> exactly, that really grinds my gears
<Azelphur> I can't remember that one girls name who has been kicking up a right fuss
<Azelphur> who admits she doesn't even play games
<Azelphur> and then there was the whole thing where she claimed people were threatening her and that she had to leave but never filed a police report
<Azelphur> whole thing stank of BS
<directhex> i think you have a rose-tinted view of how things are in 2014 though. it's not a quest to destroy all games forever, it's saying "how come in hitman absolution, male assassins wear pressed suits & female assassins working for the same employers are latex bondage nuns?"
<directhex> Azelphur, those points aren't actually true fwiw.
 * Azelphur shrugs
<directhex> you're thinking of media critic anita sarkeesian. who *did* file a report (but GG is loud & claimed she didn't, so that's the reality that many believe)
<Azelphur> I see, and yea, it's certainly very loud :)
<Azelphur> directhex: that and the other point is that I get death threats on a weekly basis, welcome to being popular on the internet.
<directhex> and she said she didn't play many AAA games, once, in 2010. she's clearly got a better grasp of games than most of GG, and has shared family photos of her on the family SNES etc. so i think that's just a trumped up "look, she's an outsider charge to try & discredit her
<directhex> Azelphur, with your home address?
<Azelphur> directhex: yup
<Azelphur> I've had proper creepy "I know where you live" shit :)
<Azelphur> my response is usually "Hey, come by, we'll have tea and crumpets"
<directhex> did you hear about the 4chan murder, recently?
<Azelphur> It's just a reality of being popular, there are nutjobs out there
<diddledan> there's a difference between being told "I know where you live" and "I'm going to go round and **** her. ps. she lives at 123 actual address"
<Azelphur> directhex: there seem to be a lot of nutjobs who happen to use 4chan
<ali1234> i didn't, go on?
<Azelphur> but yea, I didn't :)
<directhex> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29932268
<ali1234> oh yeah, i did hear about that
<Azelphur> crazy
<Azelphur> but yea, there was also some guy who got murdered for taking a sword in a video game
<Azelphur> there are crazy people out there, don't let them get to you / stop you doing things.
<diddledan> seriously, don't let them get to you. or you've had it too
<directhex> in yankland, those crazy people are armed
<Azelphur> well yea that too :P
<Azelphur> directhex: not like they don't have weapons here too, admittedly not guns
<Azelphur> but still fairly equal in the you're probably going to die range
<diddledan> are samurai swords allowed in the UK? (e.g. as ornaments which can "accidentally" be used to aggressively cut a guy's head off because he smiled at you)
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea they are, I have multiple friends who have them
<diddledan> cracray
<ali1234> lol, "shirtgate"
<Azelphur> hehe
<diddledan> o_O
<directhex> i thought it was "shirtstorm"
<directhex> and that guy's been totally ripped apart. he did something dumb at just the wrong time, i guess.
<daftykins> props to him if the video apology was genuine
<ali1234> if it had been me, i would have worn the same shirt in the apology video
<directhex> yeah, he looked crushed. but he has thousands of people attacking him, at the apex of his career & the culmination of decades of work. i feel sorry for the guy
<directhex> he did a dumb thing, he's sorry. that should really be the end of it
<diddledan> what did he do?
<penguin42> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-30055278 ?
<directhex> he did a press conference for the comet probe, wearing a shirt printed with women in latex bondage gear
<directhex> which is pushing "casual work attire" a little bit further than most people would agree was workplace-appropriate
 * penguin42 now wants to know if that's his normal shirts or he put it on specially
<diddledan> I know what it's like tho - I wore a "budweiser" tee unthinking to a place where there might have been alcoholics
<diddledan> might have been - i.e. likely
<directhex> this is a good example of my comment above [00:18]<directhex> most sexism is thoughtlessness, not evildoing.
<directhex> it'd be lovely if people left the guy alone to do some sciencing now
<diddledan> I agree - it's the same for a lot of things - if people didn't highlight the accident it wouldn't be an issue for anyone, but some people enjoy pointing out things like that
<daftykins> bit of a flaw to social network i guess, allowing these bandwagon jumpers to be united
<daftykins> *networking
<ali1234> right, as soon as twitter gets involved is the point where i stop caring
<penguin42> it's got to be said though as shirts go, it's one of the worst choices for being non-offensive
<ali1234> brown shirt with a black arm band would have been worse, i think
<penguin42> probably true
<directhex> penguin42, he won't have thought beyond "this shirt looks cool and colourful"
<directhex> "i work with women scientists, maybe they might be uncomfortable at me wearing a gallery of boobies at them" won't have been a consideration, due to aforementioned thoughtlessness
<penguin42> directhex: Yeh, I'm sure he didn't pick it to be offensive, but still that's pretty dumb, you don't buy a shirt like that and not realise it'll cause offense to some people
<directhex> penguin42, apparently it was a gift from a designer friend of his. she's not entirely pleased at the reaction to her work
<daftykins> oops.
<penguin42> directhex: Hehe, pointing out it was a gift from a lady does help a bit :-) But still, I'm sorry it's obvious it would cause offence to people
<diddledan> this is where double standards come into play because I can foresee some folk will read that it was made by a woman and say "oh well it's ok then because she's a woman"
<directhex> some women are okay with that kind of thing. some don't. it's basic human decency to ask yourself if you're potentially making your co-workers uncomfortable with your behaviour, which includes the way you dress
<ali1234> did anyone actually ask any of his co-workers?
<directhex> i think co-workers might be upset if i came in my leather bondage harness instead of jeans & t-shirt
<diddledan> directhex, oh, I didn't know you were a deviant. nice to learn. ;-)
<directhex> i think http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/post/50432219744/special-guest-edition-the-hawkeye-initiative-irl is my favourite primer on the idea of accidentally hostile work environments
<directhex> now, i should totes be in bed
<daftykins> oh wow 1am, didn't even notice
<directhex> we were having SO MUCH FUN talking about GAMERGATE and SOCIAL JUSTICE
 * directhex foams at the mouth a bit
<ali1234> i don't get it, why can't we have both posters?
<daftykins> directhex: what's scary is i don't doubt you own said harness
<directhex> ali1234, we absolutely can. but originally only ruby underboob existed. and nobody in seniority considered that it might be inappropriate for that to be the case
<diddledan> I love both those pictures
<directhex> it's a cute, humorous, and harmless way to diffuse the "i work in an office surrounded by semi-naked women on the walls and it makes me uncomfortable" issue
<directhex> right. BED FOR REAL SO MUCH ZOMG
<daftykins> just read that through, quite amusing :)
<daftykins> impressively grounded boss to respond so
<diddledan> lol: https://twitter.com/jordansissel/status/533421480047312897
<penguin42> I didn't recognise that at first, my browser displayed it as an emoticon like with a face
<ali1234> that's what it is supposed to do...
<diddledan> it's a pile of poo with eyes
<ali1234> right, ð©
<diddledan> hmm, my hexchat doesn't like that
<diddledan> (windows)
<ali1234> tl;dr "pile of poo" is a unicode character
<ali1234> no actual font i've ever seen has it
<ali1234> twitter converts it to an image for display
<penguin42> ali1234: It's apparently in the symbola font
<diddledan> os x does it
<diddledan> I think it might be a hook though rather than font support
<penguin42> yeh fc21 does it
<penguin42> hmm, routing hickup on vm
<penguin42> vm is definitely having problems
<diddledan> oh dear
<penguin42> it had a hickup about 20mins ago, and most stuff seems to be OK, but some stuff hmm
<penguin42> traceroutes to imgur.com seem to die, but are fine from another host
<diddledan> I have a vm connection I can try with
<diddledan> looks like I die within virgin at 3 hops to imgur.com
<penguin42> seems oddly specific doesn't it
<diddledan> oh, maybe I don't
<diddledan> 4 timed-out hops, and then three more
<diddledan> three more responding hops
<diddledan> now more timing out hops
<penguin42> diddledan: manc-core-2a-xe-1022-0.network.virginmedia.net, pres-core-2b-ae16-0.network.virginmedia.net know-geam-1b-pc200.network.virginmedia.net  wb7301b.network.virginmedia.net  and that's it
<diddledan> yup, I'm getting to wb7301b too
<penguin42> with a not responder between manc-core and pres-core
<diddledan> interesting that we're both hitting the same router
<penguin42> well it's bubbled around and eventually hit the way it thinks it's supposed to get there
<daftykins> i could give you a Channel perspective ;)
<daftykins> doubt it'd be much use mind 8D
<diddledan> I go to winchester? then brent? (I'm interpreting the hostnames as I see fit) before several timeouts then pres-core and beyond the same as you
<penguin42> why the hell do you end up at pres-core - I'm assuming pres-core is Preston
<diddledan> yeah, I thought that too
<penguin42> Manc-Pres makes some sense
<diddledan> I think virgin's internal routes are broke
<daftykins> diddledan: any thoughts on the dd command by jakesyl in #ubuntu ? '/dev/rdisk1' looks suspect to me, or is that standard naming in mac land?
<penguin42> yeh that's rawdisk on mac/bsd
<daftykins> i'm thinking about the mistake between /dev/sdx1 vs /dev/sdx for image writing
<daftykins> ah, so it's irrelevant to partitions? fair enough
<diddledan> yup, rdisk1 is the un-buffered/filtered disk-level - partitions are like: /dev/rdisk1s1
<diddledan> where s means "slice"
<penguin42> diddledan: Looks like they fixed it
<diddledan> slice is the way that bsd refers to what the rest of the world calls a partition because in bsd-land you would slice up your disc with one or more bsd slices (and any other oses) and then partition the bsd slice for bsd filesystem segregation such as swap, root, home etc
<penguin42> diddledan: Although I'm curious if you still go up to preston to get routed back down through London
<diddledan> same first three hops
<diddledan> 4, 5, 6, and 7 still time out as before
<diddledan> and now I'm up in preston, with the same three hops from the failed trace, but then go to nrth-bb-1b-xe-618-0.network.virginmedia.net followed by london and out onto level3
<diddledan> seem to be timing out after the level3 hop
<diddledan> this is the last that responded: ae-11-vl-3101.edge3.London2.Level3.net (4.69.202.170)
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh
<penguin42> diddledan: But imgur stuff actually responds now, oh there's some switching going on, a traceroute I just did has shown it going via cogentco.com rather than Level3.net
<diddledan> I love watching bgp simulations
<penguin42> although given the last one is shown as lhr01 I guess that's the packets being put on a plane
<diddledan> it's a shame I don't have access to the bgp routing table to make my own
<diddledan> lol
 * diddledan tries again
<diddledan> still trying to go out level3 for me
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh, flipped back :-)
<diddledan> heh, their routing must be really screwed if it's flipping
<diddledan> I'm guessing their NOC team have been rudely awakened
<diddledan> trying a random name that I'm expecting to not have an edge-cache in ISPs - got to cogentco.com's routers (8 of them!) then nephoscale.net
<diddledan> now timeouts
<diddledan> this is to eff.org
<penguin42> but I seem to be able to connect to it OK
<diddledan> odd
<penguin42> diddledan: I assume that the 'know-' address is Knowsley (liverpool) - virgin list it as an office site, the remaining ones though are too cryptic
<diddledan> lol @ hostname: 18  SiliconValley_WebHosting.demarc.cogentco.com (38.112.9.214)
<diddledan> I guess eff must be hosted by nephoscale?
<penguin42> that makes it too easy
<diddledan> yeah the IP of eff.org is a nephoscale owned IP
<diddledan> so it's timing out because the actual server dropped the connection rather than telling me I got there
<map> hi all
<zmoylan-pi> tis quiet
<diddledan> mmhmm
<diddledan> ello map
<zmoylan-pi> and listening to outside a break in the last 3 days of rain
<map> ello
<map> where abouts in uk zmoylan-pi ?
<zmoylan-pi> dublin, ireland.
<map> ah
<map> rained here again
<map> big bang theory then sleep for me
<zmoylan-pi> forgot to convert to smaller format for tablet.  will wait till later
<zmoylan-pi> a 70mb file rather than 170mb is good enough and fits a more to my media drive
<map> what you converting big bang|?
<zmoylan-pi> i usually get them, convert them, watch them and add them to media drive till i get the dvd and rip a better copy
<map> ah
<map> need to start on new series of arrow soon
 * zmoylan-pi is watching season 1 of b5
<map> b5? bablyon 5?
<map> never seen it
<zmoylan-pi> yup
<map> there's a new chan 4 series called Babylon saw the pilot months ago and they finally starting airing eps
<zmoylan-pi> it changed sci fi.  it was what made ds9 so much better than tng.  turned sci fi from episodic to arc based
<map> never seen either pf them
<map> i prob should
<zmoylan-pi> hanging out in a linux chatroom and never seen ds9...
 * zmoylan-pi shakes head sadly at kids today :-p
<map> ;]
<zmoylan-pi> stargate sg1?
<map> nope;p
<map>  got a lot o tv to watch eh
<map> but il burn through them fast its easy when series are finished..watched all of arrow s1 in a week the wire 1-4 in a few
<daftykins> stargate \o/
<zmoylan-pi> well trek is a LOT of tv.  tos, lite, tng, ds9, voy, ent plus movies
<map> im off to sleep
<map> 725am here
<map> night all:P i guess you two havent slept yet
<map> unless you got up suoer early on a sat heh
<zmoylan-pi> i slept... yesterday afternoon i think
<map> eva longorias so hot..just watching brooklyn nine nine again
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> morning?!
<diddledan> wtf? it's daylight!
<diddledan> how did that happen?
<brobostigon> morning diddledan
<brobostigon> well several factors caused it to happen, diddledan
<popey> morning all
<brobostigon> morning HRH popey
<popey> morning aquarius
<aquarius> ohai popey
 * popey moves
<aquarius> I don't suppose anyone knows Objective C, do they?
<aquarius> bah. I am trying to translate about five lines of it into some sort of sane language and can't :)
<diddledan> pastebinit
<aquarius> https://github.com/nto/AirSpeaker/blob/master/AirTunes/AirTunesController.m#L286
<aquarius> specifically: what happens if fply_header[6] ==  1?
<aquarius> I do not get what lines 297-302 are doing
<diddledan> that looks to just be taking a byte array and marshalling it into an NSData object
<aquarius> OK. I *believe* from this that "content" is the stuff that the remote site POSTed to us
<aquarius> line 301 does... what? I *think* it gets 1 byte from content and puts it in fply_2 at position 13?
<aquarius> (er, it gets one byte from content at position 14, i.e., the 14th byte of content, and it copies it to fply_2, overwriting fply_2's 13th byte?)
<aquarius> line 302 then just marshals fply_2 into an NSData object, I think.
<aquarius> but line 301 is the bit I don't get
<diddledan> apple's nsstring reference doesn't list a getBytes:length method
<diddledan> oh, it's range
<diddledan> let me try looking for that
<diddledan> oh, that'll be why - it's an NSData
<diddledan> ok, 286 is taking from the content object 12 bytes and stuffing them into fply_header
<diddledan> then 301 is taking fply_id_range-length of bytes out of content (now that the header has been removed in 292) and stuffing it into fply_2 starting at offset 13 (starting at 0)
<diddledan> offset 13 is the 14th byte
<diddledan> looks like the fply_id_range specifies to take the 14th byte out of the original data (after the header has been removed) and the fply_2 + 13 says to stuff it in the same offset in fply_2
<aquarius> hang on, the first 12 bytes of content are *removed*?
<aquarius> diddledan, can you write python? if you can, do you fancy writing those few lines in python for me so I can follow along? :)
<aquarius> the square bracket stuff in objc confuses the hell out of me :)
<diddledan> no I think I got that wrong - it looks to just stuff the header into the payload NSData object - I saw the subdata and assumed it was slicing
<diddledan> nope it's not even doing that
<diddledan> NSRange is weird
<aquarius> hence why I am confused ;)
<diddledan> it specifies an offset AND a length
<diddledan> so 288 thru 292 is taking the data in *content and extracting the bytes into *payload WITHOUT the header
<diddledan> and then 297 thru 301 are doing a single byte copy of the protocol's ID byte and plopping it into a prepared byte-array (*data)
<diddledan> sorry, not *data I mean fply_2
<diddledan> I Was skipping ahead
<diddledan> the line 302 then creates a pointer to fply_2 and stores it in an NSData object called data
<diddledan> that's purely so that it can be sent to the replyOK:withHeaders:withData function
<aquarius> *nod*
<aquarius> so, basically, at the end of it, data is (I think) an exact copy of fply_2 except that its 14th byte has been overwritten by the 13th byte of content? Is that right?
<diddledan> I _think_ it's 14th with 14th
<diddledan> it takes location "12 + 2" from content and copies it into "fply_2 + 13". I'm not entirely sure if either or both of those are indexed from 0 or 1
<diddledan> I hate binary wire protocols
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> why can't we all use UTF-8?!
<aquarius> that's apple for you :)
<aquarius> I'll give a few things a try and see if I get somewhere :)
<diddledan> ok, I gotta head out now. I might be back later
<aquarius> diddledan, cheers, pal!
<YaManicKill> So, my friend just set up a fresh ubuntu server install, and gave me an account on it. However, using the details they sent me (they even added my ssh key) I can't log in. Where should I look for if soemthing is blocking me from getting in apart from the ssh config, and hosts.deny
<aquarius> YaManicKill, if you add lots of -v options to the ssh command it may give you a clue where it's being denied? although you may have tried that
<YaManicKill> Yeah, that's not giving me anything useful.
<YaManicKill> It tried the ssh key, and just says "Next authentication method: password" ... etc
<aquarius> also, check /var/log/auth.log on the server, I think
<aquarius> does the vvvvv stuff show that your public key is being offere and rejected?
<YaManicKill> Yep
<YaManicKill> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/nhvJ95Dw
<aquarius> auth.log on the server may have clues as to why you are denied, but if you can't ssh in, you can't see it, surely?
<YaManicKill> Yeah, but I've got it from the friend who can get onto the server.
<YaManicKill> The weird thing is...she *can* connect using the info she gave me :-\
<aquarius> can you try connecting to there using the same info but from another server?
<aquarius> like, find an ssh account you've got somewhere else and ssh to there, then ssh from there to the server you're trying?
<YaManicKill> Yeah, tried that.
<YaManicKill> Same issue.
<aquarius> and it doesn't work?
<aquarius> is she successfully connecting with a key, or with a password?
<YaManicKill> password
<YaManicKill> This is the only thing out of the ordinary I see: Nov 15 06:40:50 poketrades sshd[10069]: error: Could not load host key: /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ed25519_key
<aquarius> are you sure you're spelling the username right?
<aquarius> migth wanna poke /etc/ssh/sshd_config on the server and change the logging level a bit higher and then connect again
<YaManicKill> I keep asking her that I am spelling it right, and she says yes.
<YaManicKill> should I stick it to debug?
<foobarry> yes, and check the chmod settings
<aquarius> might wanna go to VERBOSE
<aquarius> and then DEBUG later if VERBOSE doesn't help
<YaManicKill> ok
<YaManicKill> foobarry: chmod for what?
<foobarry> if you create .ssh
<YaManicKill> ah good call
<foobarry> it usually doesn't create the directory with correct settings for ssh keys
<aquarius> that can't be the problem though, because it would occur to anyone using those credentials to connect, and it doesn't occur with your friend
<foobarry> ah, you're doing host key auth rather than pub/priv user keys?
<YaManicKill> No no, it's pub/priv
<YaManicKill> erm, what should .ssh be?
<foobarry> : Could not load host key:   /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ed25519_key
<foobarry> why's it doing that ?
<YaManicKill> :-\
<foobarry> if its user key then you can write a 5 lines script
<foobarry> check if .ssh exists, then make it
<foobarry> chmod 700 .ssh
<foobarry> wget http://siojsoidjf.com/ya.pub
<foobarry> cat ya.pub >> .ssh/authorized_keys
<foobarry> chmod 600 !$
<foobarry> the other day my ssh broke because something/someone mysteriously changed my home dir to 777
<YaManicKill> .ssh/authorized keys was read only, could that be part of the issue?
<foobarry> dont think so
<foobarry> check your pub key is correct format and is in there
<foobarry> loko for acidental carriage returns
<aquarius> the pub key can't be the problem, though, because password auth doesn't work either, right, foobarry?
<aquarius> er, right, YaManicKill
<YaManicKill> yeah
<foobarry> could be a bunch of reasons :S
<YaManicKill> sh-rsa
<YaManicKill> I don't know if fixing this will allow me to login, but that's certanarily an issue :-P
<YaManicKill> \o/ works
<foobarry> ah, a typo in auth keys?
<aquarius> yay!
<zmoylan-pi> the sense of triumph after a bug/glitch/error is eliminated
<YaManicKill> heh, yeah
<YaManicKill> Alright...seeing as you guys are so good...why are my ssh session so damn slow?
<YaManicKill> My internet isn't  shocking (it is bad, but not this bad)
<YaManicKill> I tend to get about a 10 second delay between keypresses.
<zmoylan-pi> as long as it's counteracted by the 'how the flip did i do something so stupid' :-p
<foobarry> where is the server
<foobarry> also, now change your password on the server, since your psasword is not what u tought it was
<YaManicKill> foobarry: yeah, done :-P
<foobarry> run top on the server
<YaManicKill> Server is NY, but I also have one in London and it has the same issue.
<foobarry> what the common ground:?
<foobarry> your client machine:
<foobarry> ?
<YaManicKill> Yeah
<zmoylan-pi> could it be you then?
<foobarry> got another device on your home internet
<foobarry> you can test from?
<YaManicKill> I'm sure it could...but what? It's no the connection, because I'm sending messages here and they appear <1s
<foobarry> got a different terminal app?
<foobarry> xterm?
<YaManicKill> from my phone on the same connection, it seems just as slow :-\ but, I'm talking like 10 second delays between me typing and it appearing on the server...doesn't that seem totally ridiculous?
<YaManicKill> 10 seconds if I'm lucky, I just got a 30 second delay there
<markie-> it is ridiculous but it is also a safe distance
<markie-> ask youtself how close you really want to get
<YaManicKill> eh?
<markie-> :)
<popey> YaManicKill: mtr to the server.
<popey> YaManicKill: also, let us know the IP so we can mtr, might be your isp
<popey> (not your connection, but a routing problem in your isp)
<YaManicKill> uhm what is mtr?
<popey> like traceroute
<popey> but better
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9025196/
<popey> e.g.
<popey> thats me doing mtr bbc.co.uk
<YaManicKill> oh, cool
<YaManicKill> the server is hq.porygon.co
<popey> ah, so digitalocean box?
<YaManicKill> yup yup
<popey> i see lots of packet loss at tclo-ic-2-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net
<popey> you on virgin ?
<YaManicKill> no, I'm on plusnet
<popey> k
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9025228/
<popey> thats what I see
<YaManicKill> On stupidly slow connection.
<popey> ooh, lunch, biab
<YaManicKill> interesting, thanks popey
<YaManicKill> interestingly, mine doesn't show any packet loss
<YaManicKill> Oh tell a lie, I see some..but not much at all.
<zmoylan-pi> i see 2 lines with ??? which is interesting
<zmoylan-pi> and when i do it again only 1 line with ??? but 57% packet loss on one hop... http://paste.ubuntu.com/9025301/
<Azelphur> out of curiosity, does anyone have any suggestions on how not to have to buy cans of compressed air?
<Azelphur> some kind of reusable solution
<zmoylan-pi> what are using them on?
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: what else? computers
<zmoylan-pi> yes, but internally or just keyboards?
<Azelphur> internally
<zmoylan-pi> so cigarette lighter gas on a powered on pc is RIGHT out :-p
<Azelphur> lol
<zmoylan-pi> but could be used in a pinch and well ventilated area to clean keyboard
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: but you'd need to compress it
<zmoylan-pi> but can be picked up cheaper than compressed air cans in discount stores if this was purely a money saving exercise
<Azelphur> pretty much, I feel silly buying ... air
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.canlessair.com/
<Azelphur> that looks like exactly what I want :D
 * zmoylan-pi is still waiting for site to tell how it works...
<zmoylan-pi> and $109...
<zmoylan-pi> no wait cheap original version... $70 http://www.canlessair.com/store/p/26-Canless-Air-System-O2-Hurricane.html
<Azelphur> so basically the same as 10 cans of compressed air
<Azelphur> seems reasonable
<zmoylan-pi> with a battery rated for 500 charges
<Azelphur> oh, I was just about to say why 500
<Azelphur> so you can probably replace the battery \o/
<zmoylan-pi> or mount a replacement externally if you want to cheap out :-)
<zmoylan-pi> one pc we had above an engineering workshop used to suck in metal dust from the air and short out.  we ended up putting a new pc in a pair of tights at the location.  worked fine if dust is a problem.  but you have to more careful with modern air cooled pcs
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: I just find that I often need a can of compressed air and never have one because my previous one has always ran out
<zmoylan-pi> that's why you carry 2.  one that is in use and one that has never been used so you always have >1 can of air
<Azelphur> hehe
<zmoylan-pi> of course you look like a plonker with an air fixation... :-)
<Azelphur> :D
<zmoylan-pi> you just tell people you're prepared in the event your office is ever attacked by sharks...
<Azelphur> haha
 * zmoylan-pi puts jaws onto tablet for later viewing as it's been ages...
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: sadly it looks like the canless air system is pretty weak compared to compressed air :(
<zmoylan-pi> back to google...
<Azelphur> still might be an option, something to consider for sure :)
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.technibble.com/review-datavac-bests-compressed-air-hurricane-cleaning-pc-dust/
<Azelphur> yea I seen that, sadly they don't make/sell them any more
<zmoylan-pi> in stock... http://www.amazon.com/Metro-Vacuum-ED500-500-Watt-Electric/dp/B001J4ZOAW
<Azelphur> interesting
<Azelphur> maybe a goer :(
<Azelphur> :)*
<aquarius> given three machines on the same wireless network (mine, at home; I am not invading anywhere), if boxA makes an http request to boxB, how can I dump the contents of that request and response on boxC?
<awilkins> boxC would need to be on the route somewhere
<aquarius> ah. darn.
<popey> why does it need to be on box c?
<popey> can you not do the dump on a or b?
<Azelphur> aquarius: if you have a decent router you can do it from there, I occasionally use my router and tcpdump to look at traffic going in/out of my Android devices
<aquarius> popey, because box a is an iphone and box b is my screencast dongle
<aquarius> Azelphur, ah, that would have been a good idea. Don't think my bt home hub will do that, though :)
<aquarius> hm, I can just pretend to be the iphone and talk to the dongle, can't I?
<Azelphur> aquarius: solution: don't have a crappy bt home hub :P
<Azelphur> you can get openwrt capable routers pretty cheap now days
 * aquarius grumbles. the dongle never replies. Wonder what I'm doing wrong?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> popey: splashed out on a Samsung HW-H355 soundbar from Tesco. It sounds so sweet in my tiny office now :)
<ali1234> aquarius: disable wireless isolation and use wireshark
<ali1234> you can pretend to be the iphone once you know what the iphone is sending...
<ali1234> assuming box C is a ubuntu machine, you can plug it in to the home hub with a cable, and then put the wifi card in to AP mode, and then connect the A and B to that AP, then you can see all traffic easily
<zmoylan-pi> the bt speakers are excellent except most of the time i want to listen to radio on phone so need headset as aerial anyway :-)
<zmoylan-pi> /w3/w3
<brobostigon> could you create a pam rule, to specify that insted of needing a password for sudo, youd need a yubikey?
<brobostigon> presuming said person is on the suoers list.
<brobostigon> sudoers*
<ali1234> you could definitely write a PAM module to do that, if there isn't one already
<ali1234> PAM = pluggable authentication modules, stuff like that is what it is for
<ali1234> https://developers.yubico.com/yubico-pam/
<brobostigon> yes, i looked at that, and got it working, but only want it to apply to sudo'able actions not for all authentication system wide.
<ali1234> why?
<ali1234> you can just sudo -s
<ali1234> i suspect you can say "only use this module for sudo" with pam, that's not a specific yubikey question though... let me have a google
<popey> bigcalm: is it on your desk under your monitor?
<ali1234> brobostigon: apparently the pam_timestamp module is used only for sudo, it's the thing that allows you to use sudo without authenticating again if you already used it in the past 5 minutes
<ali1234> so i'd say look at how that works
<ali1234> so apparently you just need to put a rule in /etc/pam.d/sudo
 * penguin42 returns from his local LUGs 20th birthday meeting
<zmoylan-pi> did you blow someones mind and casually return a slackware 1 install on 30 5.25" disks? :-)
<penguin42> hehe no, although there was a suggestion we should see what we could get booting in VMs sometime
<hutch> Hi everyone
<SuperEngineer_> hmm... keep getting "SuperEngineer is already in use...".  Who's the damn pretender & on what channel I wonder?!  [If this were twitter I'd end with #bludgeon-the-imposter ! ]
<hutch> SuperEngineer_: try doing /msg NickServ identify <password>
<hutch> in the server window
<SuperEngineer_> hutch - thanks - guessed the secound bit!  :D ]
<hutch> lol
<SuperEngineer_> just gonna log off & back in [yet again]
<TheBlackRussian> Hello guys, can you help me
<TheBlackRussian> hello?
<TheBlackRussian> Finding it hard that this own is filled with people yet no one is replying nor chatting with each other.
<aquarius_> you may want to say what you'd like help with.
<m0nkey_> TheBlackRussian, most people are away or not looking. Just state your question. Wait and somebody might reply.
<TheBlackRussian> I have screen artifacts issues which can seen here  0 down vote favorite 	  https://www.dropbox.com/s/lpb8f40hfjsg9w0/Screenshot%20from%202014-11-09%2019%3A54%3A13.png?dl=0  https://www.dropbox.com/s/fkzv64cpkpf7qqk/Screenshot%20from%202014-11-09%2019%3A54%3A30.png?dl=0
<TheBlackRussian> how do i fix
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: What graphics card/chip?
<TheBlackRussian> intel q35
<penguin42> hmm, don't think there's any alternate driver you can try for that
<TheBlackRussian> what do you mean
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: But yes that does look like a graphics driver bug - what version of Ubuntu (I assume Ubuntu?)
<TheBlackRussian> ubuntu 14.10. I had ubuntu 14.04 before and i remember the first 2 days i had no screen artifacts
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: Sorry, not got many good suggestions; I'd report the bug against the xserver-xorg-video-intel package
<TheBlackRussian> what do you mean?
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: Well, you should report the bug properly using the    ubuntu-bug  command
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: But I don't have many good suggestions how to fix it, if 14.04 works that's probably your best bet
<TheBlackRussian> How long will it take before a solution is found because i dont want these ugly screen artifacts to occur every 10 minutes. Also after installing Ubuntu 14.04  for the first 2 days it worked flawless until the 3rd day
<TheBlackRussian> after the 3rd day screen artifacts started to appear
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: Sorry, can't say how long it'll take to find a solution - I don't work on it, and it depends if you get lucky
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: Did the artifacts only start after an update?
<TheBlackRussian> to be honest with you i dont have a clue, most likely probably
<SuperEngineer_> hmm... can't stop this! Sorry to annoy y'all with all those logon/logoffs... guess I'm gonna have to get used to being SuperEngineer_ for a while!
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: OK, I'd take it back to 14.04, don't do any updates, and see if it works for a few days
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: If it keeps working then you need to do updates manually and figure out just which update breaks it, because then you can say to people exactly which thing breaks it, because then it's much more likely to get fixed
<SuperEngineer_> [but y'all know I'm actually SuperEngineer - so what the heck ;)
<penguin42> prove it
<zmoylan-pi> and you've unscored to prove the point... :-)
<SuperEngineer_> [still gonna bludgeon the interloper though ;) ]
<TheBlackRussian> woah woah you want me to down grade?
<TheBlackRussian> it will take ages to set it up
<zmoylan-pi> *underscored
<SuperEngineer_> penguin42, Easily proved - I'm the daftest bugger on this channel ;)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer_: No way!
<SuperEngineer_> yes way
<SuperEngineer_> hang on - am I seeing netsplit here - could that be the reason???
<TheBlackRussian> fair enough penguin i will downgrade but how i get rid of ubuntu 14.10
<penguin42> SuperEngineer_: I'm not seeing anything here, but it might depend on the servers you're on
<SuperEngineer_> in fact - just in case - I'm going down b-maybe try again tomorrow & see if I'm the real me
<SuperEngineer_> bfn
<TheBlackRussian> Guys guys, i have a new question: How do i get rid of Ubuntu 14.10 and install Ubuntu 14.04
<arsenip> start from scratch :p
<arsenip> anyone use gmail for personal domains? tempted to move to gmail for hosting (security/redundancy etc)
<TheBlackRussian> how can i start from scratch when all my hard drives had been divded up to install ubuntu 14.04
<arsenip> not sure i understand. if you have 14.10 installed, you can install 14.04 over it using the same partitions
<TheBlackRussian> by installing 14.04 over 14.10 everything about 14.10 will be removed correct?
<arsenip> you can format the partitions - but you need to be careful to pick the correct partitions (if you have other data on there). If you do have other data and you're unsure - defintely back it up first.
<aquarius_> Ubuntu also allows you to install a new version while keeping your home folder intact, although I do not know if that applies to installing an older version over a newer one.
<TheBlackRussian> okay thank you
<zmoylan-pi> it should offer to allow you to replace the existing ubuntu partition i think
<foobarry> aquarius_: port mirroring is possible on good switches
<foobarry> re: your a->b question
<TheBlackRussian> if i format the drive which has ubuntu 14.10 in it, does it mean i have to create drives again
<aquarius_> foobarry, yeah. However, I have been banging my head against this all afternoon (I don't have a good switch, sadly), and now it's just putting my blood pressure up:)
<foobarry> i've done it before to plot netflows
<foobarry> all the traffic destined for b, also mirrored on c so you can gather data
<foobarry> also, Azelphur do you use compressed air for cleaning?
<foobarry> cleaning inside PCs, or keybiards etc
<foobarry> 2 other options are to buy a HEPA filtered vacuum cleaner
<zmoylan-pi> problem with vacuum cleaners is that they can generate static electricity which is bad when hoovering inside a pc.
<foobarry> run netcat on hostc
<aquarius_> foobarry, um?
<Azelphur> foobarry: I've heard a compressor with a water filter on it is very good
<TheBlackRussian> Question: After being told to reinstall Ubuntu 14.04 by penguin to try and rid of my ubuntu screen artifacts which i did, THE PROBLEM IS STILL THERE.
<TheBlackRussian> Its horrible seeing screen artifact ruin my desktop
<zmoylan-pi> a hardware fault that's just developed?
<TheBlackRussian> hardware fault?
<zmoylan-pi> i'd try live distros to see if it manifests
<zmoylan-pi> wonky video ram a bunch of other things depending on the 'artifact'
<TheBlackRussian> whats a live distros? Do you mean try Ubuntu without CD?
<TheBlackRussian> and a wonky video ram <- What do you mean by that?
<zmoylan-pi> the disk you install most modern distros from or usb allow you to run the distro without installing it
<TheBlackRussian> I tried it, worked flawless. Than the installed Ubuntu, screen artifact happens
<zmoylan-pi> wonky video ram = faulty video ram.  i've seen systems run with just tiny flaws in video ram causing errors
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: Something else you might want to try; another reinstall with 14.04 but make sure you untick the 'update during installation' box in the installer, just to make sure it's not pulling in any updates that are breaking things (or alternatively do the instlal without network connected)
<TheBlackRussian> you could have told me that before i reinstalled ubuntu eariler on
<TheBlackRussian> also i think when i typed in my ram in one of the drivers i didnt add all of my ram
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: True, sorry - but there again I've not hit someone who had this problem before
<zmoylan-pi> it looked like the upgrade to 14.10 was the problem earlier and that the problem would go away by falling back to 14.04
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: Hmm that thing about not adding all your RAM - best thing maybe is to boot into a memory test program (memtest86 I think it's on most Linux install CDs) and leave it running for a few hours
<zmoylan-pi> ^this
<TheBlackRussian> what does memory test program do? And also i downgraded to 14.04. As i started eariler when i tried Ubuntu without installing it i had no problems what so ever. I was using it for over 1 hour before i installed ubuntu fully.
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: Memory test program tests for faulty memory
<TheBlackRussian> can i still use my desktop
<TheBlackRussian> when doing the test
<penguin42> not while that's running
<TheBlackRussian> and it takes a few hours to complete the test?
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: The longer it runs the more thorough the test
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: Start it running before you go to bed, see if it finds anything by the time you wake up
<TheBlackRussian> give me 2 mins, i be back on "use ubuntu without installing it" to see if the problem is there was well
<ali1234> what does the artifact look like?
<ali1234> foo
<penguin42> ali1234: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lpb8f40hfjsg9w0/Screenshot%20from%202014-11-09%2019%3A54%3A13.png?dl=0   was the link he sent earlier
<penguin42> ali1234: Driver or hardware, difficult to say
<ali1234> looks like some pixels are offset there
<ali1234> or swapped
<penguin42> yeh, it's a bit odd
<ali1234> look at the right side of the building
<penguin42> yeh
<ali1234> a group of 8 pixels has been horizontally swapped
<ali1234> with the ones immediately next to it
<ali1234> or maybe 16 pixels
<ali1234> that doesn't seem like something that could be caused by a hardware fault
<TheBlackRussian> before i do that memory test you suggested do you have any other solutions to fix this issue
<ali1234> it would require 1 bit of the address bus to be inverted
<ali1234> this seems like an issue with textrure compression algorithms or something
<ali1234> so i'm going to say driver fault
<TheBlackRussian> what do you mean driver fault
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh, most likely, but broken RAM could prboably do it as well, but I'd have expected it to fail quicker
<zmoylan-pi> that looks more gpu than video ram to my mind.  maybe a more conservative video setting
<ali1234> i don't see how a hardware failure could swap over two memory locations like that
<ali1234> bits generally get suck on or off, but not inverted
<ali1234> i guess anything is possible though
<TheBlackRussian> could, at the moment im using "try ubuntu with installing" and i dont see no screen artifacts
<TheBlackRussian> *could meant to be confused
<ali1234> how long does it normally take before you see them and does it get worse over time?
<TheBlackRussian> 5 minutes
<TheBlackRussian> and yes it gets worse
<ali1234> okay, give it 10 minutes at least on live CD then
<TheBlackRussian> to the point i want to through my computer out the window
<ali1234> if you see nothing after, say, half an hour, then you are seeing a driver bug
<ali1234> what version are you using?
<zmoylan-pi> isn't the live distro more cautious at hardware probing than a regular install?
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> there is only one intel driver
<zmoylan-pi> intel drivers are usually fairly bulletproof
<ali1234> heh, no
<TheBlackRussian> the last time i threw my computer at the window was when bt cut my internet off in the middle of a porn video
<ali1234> i'm looking at FDO bugs but there's hundreds of graphics corruption bugs on intel at the moment
<TheBlackRussian> after that i refused to pay they god damn bill and told them to shove a pig up they arseholes.
<TheBlackRussian> then they sent some man to collect my bill so i paid up
<TheBlackRussian> if this was in russia i would have chase him out and rob him
<ali1234> ah ha
<ali1234> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=56003 looks familiar?
<ali1234> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45092
<ali1234> o_O
<lubotu3> Freedesktop bug 45092 in DRM/Intel "[965GM] broken swizzling in swap-in/out paths/L-shaped memory swizzling" [Normal,Needinfo]
<ali1234> !ohmy
<lubotu3> The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<TheBlackRussian> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lpb8f40hfjsg9w0/Screenshot%20from%202014-11-09%2019%3A54%3A13.png?dl=0
<TheBlackRussian> that was my old desktop
<TheBlackRussian> i dont see russia in the languages
<TheBlackRussian> *russian
<ali1234> well the good news is your computer isn't broken
<ali1234> the bad news is "hardware issue that remains unsolved"
<ali1234> there is a patch, but you would have to compile loads of stuff
<TheBlackRussian> as long as i can see my girl in the desktop background in clear beauty than i dont mind
<ali1234> here's another one: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28813
<ali1234> seems to be a common problem
<lubotu3> Freedesktop bug 28813 in DRM/Intel "[GM45] broken swizzling in swap-in/out paths/L-shaped memory swizzling" [Normal,Assigned]
<TheBlackRussian> by installing this patch it gets rid of the screen artifact correct?
<ali1234> maybe
<TheBlackRussian> so how do i install this
<ali1234> depends if it is the right patch for your graphics card
<TheBlackRussian> intel q35
<penguin42> ali1234: Ah that does look like it doesn't it
<ali1234> that is your motherboard chipset
<ali1234> i don't know which GPU it has, the documentation is unclear and everything has to have multiple different code names of course
<TheBlackRussian> you want my gpu too
<ali1234> apparently it is GMA4100
<penguin42> ali1234: It's a bit odd though, they're ancient bugs - I wonder why it only affects some Intel users
<ali1234> sorry, GMA3100
<ali1234> because they have a different code path for every chipset?
<penguin42> ali1234: Possible, I didn't think they were that uncommon though
<TheBlackRussian> the computer im using is from russia was made by a russian just to let you know. They dont know how to make computers mostly likely the guy was drunk when making my computer
<ali1234> aparently it is also something to do with swapping
<ali1234> "Note though that it's unclear from the documentation what this bit exactly does, and it has the potential to corrupt system memory (and not just graphics stuff). So I highly advise you to try this on a throw-away disk/installation." nice.
<ali1234> yet another: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46178
<lubotu3> Freedesktop bug 46178 in Driver/intel "[GM965] screen corruption after suspend/resume" [Minor,Resolved: duplicate]
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm possibly related to memory setup on the machine, so might explain why it doesn't affect all of us intel users
<TheBlackRussian> is it worth noting i dont see any screen artifact after 26 mins of using "try ubuntu without installing". Also i dont mind trying the things you provide as long as it doesnt KILL MY COMPUTER.
<ali1234> TheBlackRussian: well, all i can do is repeat to you what the bug reports say
<ali1234> i don't know much about intel graphics, i don't use it
<ali1234> in order to test this stuff you would need to recompile the kernel from source, it isn't and easy or fast thing to do
<TheBlackRussian> trust me man, im russian. A russian can do anything. What do i have to do to fix this crap
<ali1234> whatever it says on the bug reports...
<penguin42> In that case I'm sure they can read bug reports
<TheBlackRussian> no they cant read english, where does it say the steps to do the patchs
<ali1234> it doesn't, it just says "test this patch"
<TheBlackRussian> where does it say that?
<TheBlackRussian> i dont see what your seeing
<ali1234> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45092#c30
<lubotu3> Freedesktop bug 45092 in DRM/Intel "[965GM] broken swizzling in swap-in/out paths/L-shaped memory swizzling" [Normal,Needinfo]
<TheBlackRussian> im on it, now where it does say "test this patch"
<ali1234> in the final comment
<ali1234> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=81971 is the patch
<TheBlackRussian> okay today is alien to me. How do i install
<ali1234> you get the source code for ubuntu kernel, apply the patch, then rebuild it
<ali1234> then build a deb and install it
<TheBlackRussian> my friend, i seriously confused. What is source code? what is ubuntu kernal? how do i apply the patch? how do i rebuild it? how do i build a deb and how do i install it?
<ali1234> the documentation for that is here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
<ali1234> i told you it wasn't easy...
<TheBlackRussian> it is easy my friend, now tell me what do i do it
<TheBlackRussian> im just testing you, you know
<TheBlackRussian> is it worth saying my computer froze for 2 seconds, afterwards screen artifact appeared. This is try ubuntu without installing by the way
<TheBlackRussian> is that good?
<ali1234> not really.
<TheBlackRussian> is that really bad? Because i want to get rid of this bloody screen artifact
<ali1234> no, it just means you can't keep using an old version until they fix it
<TheBlackRussian> im using a old version or do i have to use a old versiob
<TheBlackRussian> *verison
<ali1234> you're using 14.04 live cd right? that is an old version
<TheBlackRussian> i got it from the ubuntu website
<TheBlackRussian> plus its a usb
<TheBlackRussian> *its on a usb
<ali1234> doesn't matter
<TheBlackRussian> whats the latest verison
<ali1234> 14.10
<TheBlackRussian> so i must try to REINSTALL 14.10 AGAIN? Is that what your saying my friend.
<ali1234> no, it won't work
<ali1234> you must recompile kernel (any version) with the patch from intel developers
<TheBlackRussian> and how do i do that
<ali1234> follow the instructions: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
<TheBlackRussian> looks scary plus i dont know what to do
<TheBlackRussian> While it is a learning experience to compile your own kernel, you will not be allowed to file bugs on the custom-built kernel (if you do, they will be Rejected without further explanation).
<TheBlackRussian> Reasons for compiling a custom kernel      You are a kernel developer.     You need the kernel compiled in a special way, that the official kernel is not compiled in (for example, with some experimental feature enabled).     You are attempting to debug a problem in the stock Ubuntu kernel for which you have filed or will file a bug report.     You have hardware the stock Ubuntu kernel does not support.     You love comput
<ali1234> such is life :(
<ali1234> "You are attempting to debug a problem in the stock Ubuntu kernel for which you have filed or will file a bug report." <- this is you
<penguin42> ali1234: It's odd, are any of those fdo bugs suggesting the fix is upstream - they seem quite old
<ali1234> no, and the final comment about testing is from one month ago
<penguin42> oh, that's not too bad I guess
<TheBlackRussian> how do i fix this problemmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<penguin42> ali1234: Acttually, that bug is very good, Chris Wilson is one of the Intel graphics devs I remember, so if someone does test that patch it's got a good chance
<ali1234> the patch itself is 18 months old
<ali1234> might not even apply on a recent kernel
<TheBlackRussian> so how do i fix my problem
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: I'm sorry there is no known fix, there is a possible fix for someone who knows how to build kernels
<penguin42> TheBlackRussian: If you can't build a kernel, then I'm sorry, but you'll have to live with the bug
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-16
<TheBlackRussian> i dont want to return to windows :( i want a solution. You know i was going to buy you lot vodkas for this as a thank you but no i rather save myself
<ali1234> bug in launchpad has an "easy" workaround: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1358936
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1358936 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[gm45] L-shaped memory with invalid swizzling" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<TheBlackRussian> what about the rest
<ali1234> rest of what?
<TheBlackRussian> thats only the launchpad
<TheBlackRussian> what about the desktop
<TheBlackRussian> the windows
<ali1234> launchpad is a website
<ali1234> it is the bug tracker specifically for ubuntu
<TheBlackRussian> what is launchpad?
<ali1234> >_<
<ali1234> it doesn't matter
<TheBlackRussian> im serious, us russians are 2 years if not 10 years behind everyone else
<TheBlackRussian> or at least where i came from
<ali1234> reboot into your normal install
<ali1234> then i will tell you how to apply the workaround
<TheBlackRussian> give me 2 minutes
<penguin42> ali1234: I couldn't tell from #29 if the fix was in drm-intel-next, in which case it might be in the ppa, but I'm not sure it is
<ali1234> the problem seems to be share GPU memory getting swapped out, when it is swapped back in it is swizzled
<daftykins> but guys he offered you free drinks! ugh :P
<TheBlackRussian> before we do this, does this get rid of the screen artifacts
<ali1234> maybe
<TheBlackRussian> if it does i will buy you a good vodka for you
<ali1234> are you ready then?
<TheBlackRussian> im always ready
<ali1234> okay, open a terminal
<ali1234> run "sudo apt-get install pastebinit"
<TheBlackRussian> instaliing
<TheBlackRussian> done
<ali1234> run "free -m | pastebinit" and then paste the link it prints
<TheBlackRussian> i do that in  the terminal
<ali1234> yes
<TheBlackRussian> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9034204/
<ali1234> okay, now run "sudo nano -w /etc/default/grub"
<TheBlackRussian> bunch of things came up
<ali1234> right it is a text editor
<TheBlackRussian> ## If you change this file, run 'update-grub' afterwards to update # /boot/grub/grub.cfg. # For full documentation of the options in this file, see: #   info -f grub -n 'Simple configuration'  GRUB_DEFAULT=0 #GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT=0 GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT_QUIET=true GRUB_TIMEOUT=10 GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=`lsb_release -i -s 2> /dev/null || echo Debian` GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash" GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=""  # Uncomment to en
<daftykins> don't paste here
<ali1234> find the line that says GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=""
<ali1234> change it to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="mem=1590mb"
<TheBlackRussian> can i copy that in the test editor
<ali1234> no
<TheBlackRussian> okay i believe i have done that
<ali1234> press ctrl-o enter ctrl-x
<ali1234> this will save and quit
<TheBlackRussian> do i press y
<ali1234> you just press enter
<TheBlackRussian> enter didnt work so i press y which took me to a bunch of other things ^^
<ali1234> then you didn't follow the instructions correctly
<ali1234> i bet it says the file is read-only and is now asking you for a different file name
<TheBlackRussian> file name to write: /etc/default/grub
<ali1234> yeah, you didn't run nano with sudo
<TheBlackRussian> confused
<ali1234> press ctrl-c to cancel saving then ctrl-x to quit
<ali1234> confirm you don't want to save changes
<ali1234> now run it again "sudo nano -w /etc/default/grub"
<TheBlackRussian> okay
<TheBlackRussian> down
<TheBlackRussian> *done
<ali1234> make the edit again and press ctrl-o enter to save
<ali1234> then ctrl-x to quit
<TheBlackRussian> the same thing as before
<ali1234> show me a screen shot
 * daftykins wonders if this is the install or live session right now
<TheBlackRussian> may take a while, give me 3 mins
<TheBlackRussian> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pwdapa7bxyndakf/Screenshot%20from%202014-11-16%2000%3A35%3A51.png?dl=0
<ali1234> okay, press ctrl-o
<TheBlackRussian> okay
<ali1234> now press enter
<TheBlackRussian> i send you a another screen shot just in case
<TheBlackRussian> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pwdapa7bxyndakf/Screenshot%20from%202014-11-16%2000%3A35%3A51.png?dl=0
<TheBlackRussian> wait
<TheBlackRussian> okay
<TheBlackRussian> is it correct what im doing
<ali1234> i don't know, that's the same screenshot
<TheBlackRussian> is it?
<daftykins> exact same link yip
<TheBlackRussian> https://www.dropbox.com/s/p6g227rhkp18jrj/Screenshot%20from%202014-11-16%2000%3A43%3A39.png?dl=0
<ali1234> okay, press enter
<TheBlackRussian> https://www.dropbox.com/s/uc1uqjmy6rl56qk/Screenshot%20from%202014-11-16%2000%3A45%3A29.png?dl=0
<ali1234> okay, press ctrl-x
<TheBlackRussian> okay everything went
<ali1234> good.
<ali1234> now run "subo update-grub"
<ali1234> sorry, "sudo update-grub"
<TheBlackRussian> theres more ._.
<daftykins> chin up.
<TheBlackRussian> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bgw3wcw5j58o3a5/Screenshot%20from%202014-11-16%2000%3A47%3A46.png?dl=0
<ali1234> now reboot and you are done
<TheBlackRussian> reboot?
<TheBlackRussian> you serious
<ali1234> yes reboot
<ali1234> yes
<daftykins> you'll have to bookmark your vietnam songs
<ali1234> the kernel command line option you entered only applies at boot up
<TheBlackRussian> be back 2 minutes. thanks dafty for that tip
<TheBlackRussian_> holy moly it much faster than before
<TheBlackRussian_> it took 5 secs to boot up ubuntu
<ali1234> that seems unlikely, but i guess it is possible
<ali1234> what this workaround does is reserve 384mb for use only by the graphics card
<ali1234> this prevents GPU memory from being swapped
<ali1234> it does mean you have less memory for programs though
<TheBlackRussian_> really? Because firefox opened fasterwith all my tabs will there
<ali1234> well maybe that is because t isn't swapping graphics memory
<penguin42> ali1234: Nice find
<TheBlackRussian_> i own you vodka for making my computer into super fast
<TheBlackRussian_> f
<ali1234> dont worry that was just your old connection closing
<TheBlackRussian_> oh thought i was banned
<TheBlackRussian_> now will this stop screen artifacts
<ali1234> hopefully
<daftykins> odd that older intel chipsets still have issues
<TheBlackRussian_> i will give it 10 minutes
<ali1234> daftykins: they keep rewriting the acceleration code
<penguin42> and then not really checking them on old stuff I think
<daftykins> :/
<TheBlackRussian_> ali do you want good news?
<TheBlackRussian_> or bad news
<penguin42> is smoke involved?
<TheBlackRussian_> nope
<TheBlackRussian_> well kind of
<TheBlackRussian_> the screen artifacts has returned
<ali1234> you can try reserving more memory for GPU but you don't really have much memory in the system
<TheBlackRussian_> reserving more memory? I reserved about 500mb
<ali1234> yeah, people reported needing to reserve up to 1000mb
<ali1234> but that is half of your memory
<ali1234> plus it might not even work
<ali1234> you could try it though, it's not hard to undo
<TheBlackRussian_> what are the chances for it working
<ali1234> no idea
<ali1234> check if the workaround is even working first
<ali1234> free -m | pastebinit
<TheBlackRussian_> i did that
<TheBlackRussian_> in terminal
<TheBlackRussian_> i get a website
<ali1234> paste it
<TheBlackRussian_> here?
<ali1234> yes
<TheBlackRussian_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9034950/
<ali1234> yeah it's working
<ali1234> and you are also using swap
<TheBlackRussian_> is that good?
<ali1234> not really no
<ali1234> you can try setting mem=1024mb
<TheBlackRussian_> hell no
<ali1234> this probably won't leave enough memory for programs though
<TheBlackRussian_> 1024 is too much
<TheBlackRussian_> at the moment
<TheBlackRussian_> i can get more ram in
<ali1234> yeah i was just about to suggest that
<TheBlackRussian_> but not now
<TheBlackRussian_> maybe in 2 days time
<TheBlackRussian_> i try 1024. What ram is good for ubuntu
<ali1234> doesn't matter
<TheBlackRussian_> can you give me the steps again
<TheBlackRussian_> really tried, its 1:30 here and need to sleep in 30 mins or else i be dead as hell
<TheBlackRussian_> and my sleeping pattern will chang
<ali1234> the steps are here: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/188641177/Bug%20Report%20-%20Intel%20X4500%20Garbled%20Graphics%20Fix.pdf
<TheBlackRussian_> can you start me off
<ali1234> sudo nano -w /etc/default/grub
<ali1234> make changes
<ali1234> ctrl-o enter ctrl-x
<ali1234> sudo update-grub
<ali1234> reboot
<TheBlackRussian_> so i put in 1024 right
<ali1234> the amount you put in is the amount to use for programs, whatever is left will be used for GPU
<TheBlackRussian_> wait does this affect my window 7
<ali1234> no
<TheBlackRussian_> okay
<TheBlackRussian_> give me 2 mins
<TheBlackRussian_> can i log off?
<TheBlackRussian_> or do i have to reboot
<ali1234> you have to reboot when changing it
<daftykins> urgh that was horrible
<daftykins> i'm eating a bowl of crunchy nut corn flakes, i got to this large clump of them that hadn't formed properly - it was all soft :S
<daftykins> kinda tasted like peanut butter
<penguin42> you do realise it's 2am ?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> that was breakfast.
<penguin42> breakfast - at 2am?
<daftykins> needless to say i'm a rather wonky individual when it comes to waking hours
<daftykins> i was up all night and even had breakfast down in the restaurant beside me at ~9am
<daftykins> played some game until mid-day then slept until midnight
<penguin42> well yes, I was about to go to bed; I guess I need to switch back to normal hours on Monday
<penguin42> after a week off
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i hope you made the best of it!
<penguin42> hmm, well, got a few things done I'd been planning to, couple of days out and about, taking it easy
<daftykins> excellent
<daftykins> one of the Canadian chap volunteers from #ubuntu is enjoying some time in Vegas this weekend
<daftykins> they freaked a bit when he started up his laptop at security and didn't recognise the OS, apparently
<daftykins> then they imaged up his drives =|
<penguin42> and I've just succeeded in the (very first bit) of one thing I was intending to do, which was build a kernel for my phone; not hacked around much with it yet
<penguin42> daftykins: !
<daftykins> ah nice, android, or?
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh, android/cyanogenmod 11, but wanted to fiddle with the kernel a bit
<daftykins> neat :D
<daftykins> i've put CM11 on a couple of devices
<daftykins> it's a bit annoying having to use fastboot to push a new kernel to one of them, with every different build i flash on
<penguin42> this one is an odd Oppo Find 7 phone, I won it, but it's default ROM was very odd, but it is known for having a lot of other ROMs available
<penguin42> daftykins: Imaging a laptop just because they didn't recognise the OS is very odd
<daftykins> ah well that's more of a mistake on my wording most likely
<daftykins> i think the Canada <-> US border does a lot of drive imaging regardless
<daftykins> he said they disassembled his machine
<penguin42> wow
<daftykins> that may've just meant for drive access though
<penguin42> still wow, I mean I can see demoing they want to power the machine on to know it's not a bomb or anything, but that's just mean
<daftykins> yep :(
<daftykins> i want to visit a friend in the upper peninsula of Michigan next year some time, there's another mate just over the water in Canada too
<daftykins> makes you wonder what they'd consider doing though if i had a laptop in tow
<penguin42> sounds like you should take one with a nice simple image on
<daftykins> indeed!
<penguin42> it's odd, I thought the general belief was they treated Canadian's as harmless
<daftykins> i guess anyone running Linux could be a hacker ;)
<penguin42> there was a video done a few years ago to highlight the difference between canadian and mexican borders, of two guys walking across the canadian border in a pantomime horse
<daftykins> XD
<map> hi all
<map> the night owls up again?
<map> L(
<map> :)
<daftykins> twit-twoo
<map> hey
<map> :)
<daftykins> mornin'
<daftykins> got that laptop yet?
<map> nah
<map> still says preparing for dispatch
<map> del date expected 18th nov - 22nd
<daftykins> it'll be Christmas before i know it :(
<map> heh
<map> yep
<map> unexciting eh
<daftykins> definitely had a few to many of them now
<map> annoying how excited people get..wow presents and junk food
<map> what are you..12
<map> :D
<daftykins> hehehe
<map> arrow s3e1 then SLEEP:d
<zmoylan-pi> +++breaking news+++ it's sunny outside and not raining
<daftykins> !
<daftykins> heh, the sun coming out brought rain, here
<daftykins> seems to have halted though
<zmoylan-pi> either that of the floodwaters are reflecting the meagre amount of light to make it look much brighter than it is
<daftykins> is it really flooding by you 0o
<zmoylan-pi> well i live on a hill and despite the weathers spirited attempts at leaving 2-3" of standing water it has drained away nicely, thank you isaac newtown
<SuperEngineer> morning folks - I'm back... and freenode now knows it's real me! ;)
<daftykins> morning o/
<SuperEngineer> curently watching a spat on twitter between Anonymous the KKK swine - KKK issuing threats - Anonymous laughs :D
<SuperEngineer> guess who's taking who's server down.... I feel so sorry for KKK swine - NOT!
<zmoylan-pi> but aren't the kkk more inclusive now? :-p
<SuperEngineer> lol
 * zmoylan-pi has hot porridge to chase away the cold
<zmoylan-pi> and if true it might make them a smidge more tolerant than gamergate shower
<zmoylan-pi> but that's a big IF
<SuperEngineer> hmmmmm - bad is bad no matter what face it wears
<zmoylan-pi> and once i saw this pic of the kkk i could never take them seriously again... http://www.pinterest.com/pin/47569339787070339/
<SuperEngineer> having just seen that pic I  now have a stomach ache - from laughing
<daftykins> what ever do you mean zmoylan-pi ? that's just halloween in a small town
<daftykins> ;)
<TheBlackRussian> Hey Ali,  my computer don't boot ubuntu now. It's slow as my grandma if not slower.
<daftykins> how far does it get? and what did you do?
<TheBlackRussian> I was told to get 1024 of ram to my graphics
<TheBlackRussian> Did so
<TheBlackRussian> rebooted
<TheBlackRussian> It shows the purple screen
<TheBlackRussian> *Give not get
<SuperEngineer> did you do that in BIOS?
<SuperEngineer> [if so - restore to previous setting?]
<daftykins> no, GRUB kernel parameters
<SuperEngineer> oh!
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: so change it back.
<SuperEngineer> daftykins, +1
<daftykins> this here fine user is getting some nasty intel embedded graphics corruption
<SuperEngineer> yup
<TheBlackRussian> how do I changet it back
<daftykins> !recovery | TheBlackRussian
<lubotu3> TheBlackRussian: If your system fails to boot normally, it may be useful to boot it into recovery mode. For instructions, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecoveryMode
<TheBlackRussian> to be honest with you guys I don't even have access to my computer.  don't know why I came on so early
<daftykins> as in you're not near it?
<daftykins> oh well, see the above link and bear it in mind for when you are
<TheBlackRussian> about 23 miles away
<daftykins> :D
<SuperEngineer> TheBlackRussian, write down the link given - use it from wherever & whenever is best for you
<SuperEngineer> ...prefereably not a toilet though!  ;)
<daftykins> http://thehackernews.com/2014/11/rootpipe-critical-mac-os-x-yosemite.html
<TheBlackRussian> I don't have a clue. I come on later when I have access to my computer. Either way we'll I'm here do you know how to get of screen artifacts
<daftykins> hah.
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: you've already been given the best advice, really. your issue isn't fixed and probably won't be for some time if at all
<daftykins> was it a laptop?
<TheBlackRussian> The best advice I was given was to throw my computer at the window but can't do so because I'm a poor man :(. It's a desktop
<daftykins> buy a graphics card for it
<TheBlackRussian> Have to wait for christmas
<TheBlackRussian> Don't have time
<daftykins> alright, i don't need your life story
<daftykins> :)
<TheBlackRussian> Nor money! I broke my gaming rig because my new sad failed to boot windows
<SuperEngineer> a thought - what about a complete Ubuntu reinstall?  That would also overwrite the grub mess-up... and you could tell the install to keep existing /home intact
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: no, it's an intel driver flaw, ali1234 found
<SuperEngineer> oooops
<SuperEngineer> my bad
<daftykins> that's alright, you didn't know the events of last night :>
<SuperEngineer> too true
<daftykins> i'm really impressed by how far folding@home has come along
<daftykins> the client now has CPU + GPU operation integrated
<TheBlackRussian> guY's,  I have a laptop. It has 1gig of ram and have intel hd in but the screen has been punched. It boots with a monitor but doesn't boot at the first bit (I don't see f1 etc.) Is there a way to bypass this
<daftykins> no
<daftykins> something with 1GB RAM, bury it.
<daftykins> :)
<TheBlackRussian> glad the laptops not mine. What happens if I stole that 1gig stick and put it in my computer. will the screen artifacts go away
<daftykins> no.
<daftykins> they might not even be compatible
<zmoylan-pi> my main computer has 1g of ram, and i'm looking at using a rasp pi as a replacement with 512mb :-)
<daftykins> oh don't make things more awkward by offering false hope :P
<TheBlackRussian> 1 sec. need to play some vietnam song before I go mental.  These screen artifacts are killing me
<zmoylan-pi> yeah i like weird low spec systems and it's very much an endurance test for most
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: i thought you said you were miles away from it.
<TheBlackRussian> I'm in a tablet which is miles away
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: heh, i can't stand anything running slowly
<daftykins> i'm worse now that i have SSDs everywhere
<TheBlackRussian> how can I being my destop with me all the time
<zmoylan-pi> it's a test of character daftykins :-)
<directhex> my desktop only has 12G RAM. i'm basically using a commodore 64 here.
<TheBlackRussian> by the time I get home I be a old man
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: nah i started with low spec, i have no desire to go back
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> hi sir
<brobostigon> morning daftykins
<brobostigon> ali1234: thank you, thats very helpful.
<popey> Morning.
<daftykins> morning sir
<brobostigon> morning popey
<SuperEngineer> o?
<brobostigon> o?
<TheBlackRussian> drafty, your telling me theY's no solution to screen artifacts what so ever
<popey> bah, wifey asking me to prioritise everything on my amazon wishlist
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: they might fix the driver in time, but there's no guarantee.
<popey> the whole point of having 8 pages of stuff is so other people choose, not me
<directhex> popey, let me tell you a story of an un-prioritized wishlist
<popey> haha
<popey> i have prioritised it a bit
<directhex> popey, i was given a ps4 camera, from my wishlist. i don't own a ps4 yet.
<brobostigon> people go for the cheapest?
<directhex> this was last xmas.
<popey> lightsabre chopsticks, low
<popey> ah, oops
<directhex> i was also bought a vita game from my wishlist. but not the vita which was also on the list.
<aquarius_> directhex, there are, perhaps, some who might say: why is there a camera you can't use on your wishlist?
<zmoylan-pi> how were they to know that you didn't get the vita?
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<TheBlackRussian> Oh, I'm the only person in the world if not few who has a low intel graphics who experience this problem Why does god hate :( Who's fixing this problem
<popey> aquarius_: you prioritise it below the thing that it goes with, is the idea, i think
<directhex> zmoylan-pi, it was on the wishlist!
<popey> TheBlackRussian: what problem, take a photo and show me.
<aquarius_> popey, I see the theory, but to me the priority of your list is how much you want the things, not how much I want to buy them for you (which is largely governed by price :))
<TheBlackRussian> http://askubuntu.com/questions/547982/ubuntu-14-10-screen-artifacts-how-do-i-fix?noredirect=1#comment751464_547982
<popey> TheBlackRussian: also "lspci | grep Graphics
<daftykins> two friends have just bought PS4's whilst another two of us have Xbox Ones :/ life = ruined!
<zmoylan-pi> yes and that just suggests it was looking like you'd have a vita by the time you got the vita game
<popey> TheBlackRussian: excellent
<daftykins> popey: ali1234 already found an intel driver bug on launchpad i believe
<TheBlackRussian> quiet dafty
<TheBlackRussian> Your putt ING him off
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: you might not think so but i'm helping you, by giving others shortcuts so you don't waste their time
<popey> TheBlackRussian: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21191  ?
<lubotu3> Freedesktop bug 21191 in Server/Acceleration/EXA "Screen corruptions on intel hardware" [Normal,Resolved: wontfix]
<popey> oh there's loads of intel video driver bugs â»
<popey> TheBlackRussian: have you filed a bug?
<daftykins> let me see if i can find last nights link
<daftykins> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1358936
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1358936 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[gm45] L-shaped memory with invalid swizzling" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<popey> awesome bug title
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> it's occurring on memory swap i think was the idea
<popey> well, the fact that chris wilson knows about it...
<TheBlackRussian> No I haven't
<popey> given he's the intel video driver maintainer
<popey> TheBlackRussian: i would... run "ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg-video-intel" on the command line and follow the prompts (will need a launchpad id)
<popey> but it could be a duplicate of that bug daftykins mentioned, but I'd let chris figure that out
 * popey plays a bit of openspades.
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: did you install 14.04 64-bit on your machine?
<daftykins> i think that on 2GB RAM is a bit meh.
<daftykins> probably contributes to this issue
<TheBlackRussian> Popey I'm about 23 miles from my computer, i install ed 64 bt
<TheBlackRussian> ty ping non a tablet is hard when eating
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: you said you had a gaming machine, why not put the graphics card from that in? :P
<daftykins> even a Â£25 card would probably avoid that issue
<TheBlackRussian> I broke my rig months ago. Sold all working bits. Ubuntu don't need a graphics card! the website of ubuntu doesn't stat you need a graphics card
<popey> it does?
<daftykins> lmao.
<aquarius_> TheBlackRussian, you don't need a *separate* graphics card, indeed; motherboards have graphics cards built into them, and Ubuntu works fine with those too.
<daftykins> aquarius_: that's what's in use and that's what's bugged
<daftykins> not much point giving generic advice if you don't follow the conversation :)
<aquarius_> daftykins, sure, yep; I have read.
<daftykins> oh, how come you said that then 0o
<directhex> well.actually.cat
<directhex> motherboards don't have built-in graphics any more.
<daftykins> cat you say, hmmm
<daftykins> indeed, but that's irrelevant pedantry sir ;)
<directhex> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hou0lU8WMgo
<TheBlackRussian> Fair enough but what you said means my computer SHOULD work
<aquarius_> TheBlackRussian, the issue is that there's a bug with the driver for that built-in graphics card. So people are suggesting that you try using a separate graphics card instead -- not because Ubuntu *requires* one, but because there is a bug with the driver for the one you have, and the quickest way to solve that would be to use a different card (which won't have the driver bug).
<TheBlackRussian> normally
<TheBlackRussian> No,  not doing it until Christmas.
<daftykins> it probably would if you went back to 12.04.5 for a couple of years
<aquarius_> TheBlackRussian, your computer should work, indeed. It's a bug that it doesn't, and the people who need to fix it know about the bug, and will likely fix it in time. That doesn't help you today, though, so what we're suggesting is that you help yourself a bit by avoiding the problem and having a different graphics card -- even a cheap one will be fine.
<daftykins> +1
<aquarius_> daftykins, the generic advice was step 1 in the explanation.
<daftykins> i've a feeling we're going to be seeing this guy asking the same thing rather regularly
<TheBlackRussian> Christmas is when I go back to Russia. since I'm a poor man I will,  rob a graphics card from a shop, get beaten up and arrested, than pay the police money to let me go and return to uk :)
<aquarius_> directhex, I think I'd count "a separate graphics card which is attached to the motherboard when the mobo is purchased and cannot be purchased without it nor detached" as "built in graphics"?
<TheBlackRussian> 100 pound is like 10,000 for them
<aquarius_> directhex, or perhaps I'm missing your point here?
<aquarius_> daftykins, it is frustrating when something doesn't work and the answer is "well, it doesn't work. It might get fixed, it might not. Perhaps you could fix it", especially when you're relatively new to Ubuntu.
<aquarius_> daftykins, hell, I find it annoying and frustrating, and I've been doing this forever :)
<directhex> aquarius_, the GPU is integrated into the CPU, it's not part of the motherboard
<aquarius_> directhex, really?
<aquarius_> blimey!
<aquarius_> I did not know that
<TheBlackRussian> I own your vodka Aquarius if you tell them lot to fix my CRAP
<daftykins> aquarius_: alright, you don't need to tell me
<aquarius_> I think my internal picture of how a computer works is about ten years out of date :)
<daftykins> yip graphics has been on-die for a while now
<daftykins> what'll really bake your noodle is storage coming straight off the CPU too.
<directhex> aquarius_, for a few years now. AMD "APU"s and Intel "HD" graphics on most of their low-mid CPUs
<aquarius_> TheBlackRussian, it will likely get fixed, but when someone gets a chance and the inclination. You could accelerate the process by offering incentives to people for fixing the bug -- https://www.bountysource.com is good for this -- or perhaps filing the bug upstream at intel and working with those Intel engineers to get it fixed -- https://01.org/linuxgraphics/documentation/how-report-bugs explains about that.
<TheBlackRussian> Come on, that will take forever! believe it or not I may be a dead man in 2 weeks time... I want a fix nowwwwww or todayyyyy
<daftykins> Look, nobody has a silver bullet for your problem.
<TheBlackRussian> How look was the bug out there for? And how long n does it take for bugs to be fixed
<daftykins> how long is a piece of string?
<TheBlackRussian> What string?
<daftykins> a hypothetical piece of string
<daftykins> the point is nobody knows how long.
<TheBlackRussian> unknowm
<TheBlackRussian> I will give them hell 24-7 until they fix it
<TheBlackRussian> Been out there for ages
<daftykins> well you better not go on about it in here.
<TheBlackRussian> What's that bug link
<aquarius_> ha. linuxatemyram.com. That link might be useful to explain to people :)
<daftykins> aquarius_: yeah, gets used in #ubuntu quite a lot
<aquarius_> I'd not seen it before. Nice explanation, although it could do with being hit with the design stick a bit :)
<TheBlackRussian> iT's say DONT PANIC YOUR RAM IS FINE
<SuperEngineer> "please give money/thanks/love to the maintainer... not whinges"...  That also  might be useful to explain to people :)
<aquarius_> TheBlackRussian, that link is not about your issue.
<TheBlackRussian> ._.
<popey> TheBlackRussian: you could install an older version of ubuntu which may not exhibit the issue
<popey> or indeed try a different linux distro which may have an older kernel and driver
<daftykins> ^ like 12.04.5 as mentioned earlier
<popey> as a workaround until this is fixed
<popey> yes, that would be super
<TheBlackRussian> how can I report a bug?
<daftykins> you were told already
<daftykins> and stick to 32-bit since you only have 2GB RAM
<popey> i mentioned it above
<popey> 10:51:14 < popey> TheBlackRussian: i would... run "ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg-video-intel" on the command line and follow the prompts  (will need a launchpad id)
<popey> haha, forgot about my cron job making thiese http://popey.mooo.com/mirror/clicks/graph-20141115-120001.png
<popey> nice to see it's rising
<daftykins> 'Click' makes me think of the BBC tech program
<TheBlackRussian> If install 32 bit on ubuntu 14.04 will it make the problems go, also I have seen s**t ton of computer with bad specs yet they run ubuntu flawlessly
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: nope
<aquarius_> popey, and I was pleased to see the stats for downloads work now, after jamestait told me about them :)
<popey> they always worked â»
<popey> i think you're mixing us up with ffos ã
 * aquarius_ laughs
<popey> need to figure out how to add markers for particular dates on this graph
<popey> like release dates and competitions
<aquarius_> ffos stats *still* do not work for riddling.
<TheBlackRussian> I will install ubuntu 12.04.5. How good is compared to 14.04
<popey> wow
<popey> TheBlackRussian: much the same
<MartijnVdS> Except for the security support
<MartijnVdS> which will last shorter
<MartijnVdS> (because more time has passed already since release)
<popey> true dat
<TheBlackRussian> so every thing about 12.04.5 is the same to ubuntu 14.04
<MartijnVdS> TheBlackRussian: no, lots of things have new versions in 14.04. But to use it, it's mostly the same.
<TheBlackRussian> and this will get rid of screen artifacts
<daftykins> maybe.
<popey> i just had to vnc into my mums ubuntu computer, which is running 12.04
<TheBlackRussian> ._.   how do I report a bug? on a website
<TheBlackRussian> On ubhntu
<TheBlackRussian> One more thing, what's the name of the bug
<SuperEngineer> bbs - need to switch distro to check I'm still "me" there as well - changed stuff last night, need to check I changed it back!  :D
<popey> TheBlackRussian: I don't understand what you're asking
<TheBlackRussian> The screen artifacts bug < Name of bug
<popey> right, i told you how
<popey> run "ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg-video-intel" on the command line
<popey> it will give you a link to click, which opens in your browser
<TheBlackRussian> Can't do thay
<popey> there you can describe the issue
<popey> why?
<TheBlackRussian> 23 miles from my computer,  i told you before
<popey> well you can do it when you're 23 miles nearer your computer
<popey> it doesn't have to be done right now
<popey> because, lets face it, the bug won't get fixed today
<TheBlackRussian> No no I will make sure they fix it
<popey> No, you won't.
<popey> You'll likely irritate people into not wanting to fix it, in all likelyhood.
<TheBlackRussian> That's bad
<popey> really?
<popey> You think people should jump when you snap your fingers?
<popey> Good luck with that life goal.
<TheBlackRussian> Yeah, over 2 million people have the same bug as me,  I'm they saver
<TheBlackRussian> If you get me
<popey> Meanwhile, back in planet earth.
<TheBlackRussian> Only I suffer
<popey> No, I'm sure multiple people have this issue.
<popey> I can't quantify how many.
<popey> But if you filed a bug and asked around, maybe a few other people with the same make/model of laptop could confirm it
<TheBlackRussian> Let's say a billion to make sound important
<popey> It sucks that you have this issue, but don't feel that your issue is the highest priority for someone else, just because it is for you.
<daftykins> what a tricky customer.
<TheBlackRussian> No no in russia we demand for things
<TheBlackRussian> If not we get they beeep
<TheBlackRussian> That will teach them customers services
<popey> Well, we both know you're not in russia.
<popey> Unless Sky broadband have a very very long ethernet cable to your house.
<TheBlackRussian> Nor in planet earth, either way I want the name of the bug. How did you I have sky?
<TheBlackRussian> That bug website you sent me stat the problem is swapping and that we shold disable swapping
<TheBlackRussian> Yes, I confirm this to be an issue with swapping. Disabling swap resolves the issue of garbled graphics at the memory peak level. If you're running a computer with enough ram, the swap partition can permanently be disabled by adding "swapoff -a" to "/etc/rc.local"  This is merely just a workaround. Hope it gets fixed soon.
<popey> you have 1GB RAM, turning off swap would probably not be wise in the long term
<popey> but you could do it to test, sure.
<TheBlackRussian> why is it not a wise thing to do?
<popey> because you only have 1GB RAM, and once you start using apps you will fill that up
<popey> and swap gives a bit of breathing room
<TheBlackRussian> okay
<TheBlackRussian> How do I do
<popey> How do you do.
<TheBlackRussian> Great,  hoe do you do that swap thing
<popey> sudo nano /etc/rc.local
<TheBlackRussian> wait
<popey> Above the "exit 0" line, put "swapoff -a"
<TheBlackRussian> save it for later
<popey> no, you â»
<popey> ctrl+x to save, reboot
<TheBlackRussian> No no no save it later
<popey> You still make no sense.
<popey> Oh look, a penny
 * popey wanders off
<TheBlackRussian> Is he gone
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: write down the links and commands from above and hassle us when you're home maybe. you're being very frustrating
<TheBlackRussian> I be on in 6 hours
<TheBlackRussian> You be on
<Myrtti> what a lovely person
 * brobostigon turns on his sarcasm filter in his aspie brain.
<daftykins> total nutjob.
<foobarry> teenagers
<brobostigon> hormonal
<SuperEngineer> whoremonal?
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<foobarry> just reading about this black pete thing in .nl
<popey> hmmm, i am trying to ssh from a to b, using key, but it keeps prompting for password
<foobarry> check chmod permissions
<popey> yeah, all looks okay
<foobarry> and typo /newlines in authorized_keys
<popey> .ssh is 700
<popey> authorized_keys is 600
<foobarry> check chmod of your homedir too
<popey>  Authentications that can continue: publickey,password
<popey> Next authentication method: publickey
<popey> Offering RSA public key: /root/.ssh/id_rsa
<popey> Authentications that can continue: publickey,password
<popey> then drops to ask for password
<popey> its like the other end doesn't like the key
<foobarry> how did you transfer the pub key
<popey> copy/paste
<foobarry> double check the key in the file?
 * popey re-pastes
<foobarry> there's an ubuntu script
<popey> ssh-add-key
<aquarius_> popey, ssh-copy-id again?
<popey> i cant do that
<popey> the account has no password
<aquarius_> oh
<foobarry> make sure you don't copy paste any carriage returns
<foobarry> sorry if that sounds condescending
<aquarius_> give it a password, ssh-copy-id, take the password away again? ;)
<popey> i copied the way i do for all keys
<popey> yeah, that might have to be last resort
<aquarius_> hack city, I admit
<popey> oh, hang on
<popey> something wrong here, can't ssh with password I just set
<popey> wonder if it's going to the wrong host
<foobarry> permitrootlogin in sshd_config?
<popey> PermitRootLogin without-password
<popey> to only use keys
 * popey removes without-password temporarily
<penguin42> popey: check /var/log/auth.log on the host to see if it is moaning
<foobarry> i had one the other day where authorized keys was spelt with an s
<popey> heh, broke the sshd_config
<awilkins> gnnf
<penguin42> popey: You can also increase LogLevel in the sshd_config
<Myrtti> I realised few days back you can have too many SSH keys
<Myrtti> I added a bitbucket key and some ssh connections started to fail
<popey> "Failed password "
<popey> but I literally just set it
 * popey sets again
<popey> nope, doesn't like it
<TheWhiteRussian> I'm back but white
<popey> is there a setting in ssd which lets me login _with_ a password as root?
<popey> i have PermitRootLogin without-password already
<popey> ahh, "yes"
<foobarry> ^
<TheWhiteRussian> I'm 23 miles from nearer to my computer, in fact just sitting in front of it
<popey> \o/ password login works
<Myrtti> popey: \o/
 * penguin42 wishes ssh would log key problems more easily
<daftykins> TheWhiteRussian: backup, install 12.04.5 32-bit then see how you get on, then. nothing much more to say on the topic until you do.
 * popey does the copy-id thing
<foobarry> its usually one of 3 things
<popey> \o/ ssh with key now works
<foobarry> permissions, sshd config or incorrect keys
<TheWhiteRussian> so I must install 12.04.5
<popey> incorrect key
<popey> was the answer
<popey> now I need to unset the password and undo allowing pw login
<popey> \o/ success
<popey> now I can kick off a backup â»
<popey> thanks all
 * popey hugs rsnapshot
<TheWhiteRussian> drafty is it ubuntu 12.04.5 precise pangolin
<TheWhiteRussian> Can I try ubuntu 12.04 without installING or do I have to install it
<popey> you can try it from a live cd / usb
<popey> how long after running does the problem usually occur?
<popey> is it immediately after booting or after some time has passed?
<TheWhiteRussian> At least half a hour
<popey> also note that the live cd might not use swap, so the issue may not appear at all until it's installed
<TheWhiteRussian> I mind install in g it as my ubuntu 14.04 is has been cocked but if I was to install ubuntu 12.04.5 do I need to format the drivers again and break them down
<map> yay
<map> laptop says dispatched
<map> :D
<map> estimated delivery 20th:D
<penguin42> map: What you ordered?
<map> just a lenovo i3 8gb 1tb 15inch laptop..after my stupid samsung i5 stopped working..turn it on power light comes on then nachine shus off
<aquarius_> hack city, I admit
<aquarius_> opos
<map> annoyingly i bought a new toshiba 17inch before i left UK but my bag weighed too much so left it at home
<penguin42> I wonder what the failure is
<penguin42> (in the Sammy)
<map> yea it's a bit irritating..don't have any tools or anywhereto take it apart here really
<penguin42> did it die just randomly or did you do something before it died?
<map> just randomly
<map> now the blue light above power switch or round it rather lights up
<map> 5sec later off
<map> fully charged etc..running off mains
<map> doesnt stay on long enough to even see anything post to screen
<TheWhiteRussian> okay, I have installed ubuntu,  ubuntu says the graphics says unknown and should I update uubuntu
<penguin42> map: Oh that's a bit weird
<map> update ubuntu..yes
<map> TheWhiteRussian,  wat gfx card
<daftykins> TheWhiteRussian: yes, fully update your install like you normally would. there's absolutely no reason for you to not use it like normal right now
<daftykins> map: get your dad to post it to me for fixing ;)
<map> =]
<map> needs to fix the gfx card unknown issue surely
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> irrelevant system info page label
<daftykins> it's intel graphics is all
<map> oh
<TheWhiteRussian> "New Update release 14.04.1 lts is available"
<map> :D
<daftykins> TheWhiteRussian: ignore that, just update as normal
<TheWhiteRussian> so I don't install,  that
<TheWhiteRussian> dafty I don't like ubuntu 12.04.5,  can u update to ubuntu 13
<daftykins> no
<TheWhiteRussian> why
<TheWhiteRussian> ubuntu 13
<daftykins> there is nothing supported between 12.04.5 and 14.04.1 and 14.10
<daftykins> they're all dead
<TheWhiteRussian> confused
<daftykins> why don't you like it when they look the same?
<TheWhiteRussian> No,  you can't make ubuntu 12.04.5 look sexy
<daftykins> right now i'm only concerned with finding out whether your issue remains, you can worry about silly things like aesthetics once you've found a solution :)
<directhex> TheWhiteRussian, ubuntu releases are supported for 9 months. except for 12.0 and 14.04, which are several years
<directhex> there's no supported 13.x any more, since the newest 13.x released more than 9 months ago
<brobostigon> !lts
<lubotu3> LTS means Long Term Support. Until 12.04 LTS versions of Ubuntu were supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server; since 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) LTS versions will be supported for 5 years on the desktop and server. The latest LTS version of Ubuntu is !Trusty (Trusty Tahr 14.04)
<TheWhiteRussian> If the findings are good can I upgrade to ubuntu 13
<daftykins> funny, i normally only get this echo in #ubuntu (:
<daftykins> no, as mentioned 13 is dead
<TheWhiteRussian> 14?
<daftykins> that's what you just came from
<TheWhiteRussian> I cant stand using ubuntu 12
<daftykins> maybe you should've picked xubuntu instead
<daftykins> like i said, worry about that later. find out if the issue is still there first
<TheWhiteRussian> No likes dog crap
<TheWhiteRussian> God I hate typo
<TheWhiteRussian> how can I install unity tweak tool
<TheWhiteRussian> On ubuntu 12
<daftykins> !info unity-tweak-tool precise
<lubotu3> Package unity-tweak-tool does not exist in precise
<daftykins> ok i made that up.
<daftykins> dunno, i'll pass on to someone with more time (i'm watching something)
<directhex> it was compizconfig-manager on 12.04 iirc
<TheWhiteRussian> If the findings are good can I upgrade drafty
<brobostigon> reminds me, i need to update my haiku install, :)
<daftykins> TheWhiteRussian: you don't seem to understand the logic behind this method of solving your problem at all. By going back to 12.04 we're using an older kernel to test if the *older* graphics driver works without issue. If you upgrade, you'll use the newer kernel with the driver that has the problem - so you can't. You have to stay put, understand?
<daftykins> well, technically the kernel doesn't have the driver but meh... close enough
<TheWhiteRussian> Yes (in reality: FFFFFFFFFFFF)
<TheWhiteRussian> it has been half a hour dafty
<Azelphur> Anyone see any potential issues with this running (x)ubuntu? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Nov/laptop.png
<daftykins> yep optimus :)
<Azelphur> well yea but optimus works, I have another optimus laptop
<TheWhiteRussian> Finding: To sum up the findings, NO SCREEN ARTIFACT meaning I CAN UPGRADE.  Oorah
<directhex> Azelphur,  "optimus works" is hard to say. optimus implementations differ
<daftykins> Azelphur: our favourite bee or prime? :D
<penguin42> Azelphur: It's depressing that all the high end laptops are going for keypad and moving the touchpad over
<Azelphur> daftykins: I use primus
<directhex> hidpi screen. linux sucks at hidpi
<Azelphur> penguin42: and small return keys, what's up with that.
<Azelphur> directhex: so I've been told, I'm prepared for that. XFCE apparently has some support for it
<directhex> Azelphur, everything is "some"
<daftykins> TheWhiteRussian: There is no upgrade. I won't tell you again.
<directhex> Azelphur, headline unsupported apps: steam, chrome/ium, totem
<directhex> daftykins, give up.
<Azelphur> don't use totem or chrom(ium), steam needs to get into gear
<penguin42> Azelphur: Do they have other keyboard options where that isn't a problem?
<Azelphur> seriously steam, get on the ball :P
<Azelphur> penguin42: don't think so.
<penguin42> Azelphur: Anyway, nice spec - not seen somewhere that does custom laptop builds before; is it actually any cheaper/better than a standard build, say a Lenovo t540p ?
<ali1234> xfce doesn't have any support for optimus
<Azelphur> penguin42: T540P doesn't have a GPU so I automatically didn't want it
<Azelphur> ali1234: ...why on earth would I want to run xfce on the nvidia card?
<Azelphur> drain all the battery weeee
<ali1234> (14:18:24) Azelphur: directhex: so I've been told, I'm prepared for that. XFCE apparently has some support for it
<Azelphur> ali1234: hidpi dude :)
<TheWhiteRussian> why no upgrade
<ali1234> oh. Xfce doesn't have any support for that either
<ali1234> beyond what you get in Gtk2
<Azelphur> ali1234: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/HiDPI#Xfce
<ali1234> that only changes font size, like it always did
<Azelphur> ali1234: maybe worth switching DE or something then :)
<Azelphur> I dunno, we'll see how it looks I guess
<penguin42> Azelphur: Some of the t540p are nvidia
<Azelphur> penguin42: ah
<ali1234> well good luck finding any DE that supports it
<Azelphur> penguin42: oh yea I see it, 730M, yuck.
<Azelphur> ali1234: ty, I have a feeling I'm gonna need it.
<penguin42> Azelphur: Ah, I don't know my nvidia models
<Azelphur> ali1234: apparently Cinnamon works well and automatically detects them
<Azelphur> penguin42: *30M = crap :)
<penguin42> Azelphur: Anyway, that should be a nice laptop if your back can carry it and if the battery lasts for any length of time
<Azelphur> *70 = budget gaming, *80 = gaming, *90 = dual 80s
<Azelphur> hehe, going through airport security this time is gonna be hilarious
<directhex> "titan" = oops we forgot people aren't all oil baron rich
<Azelphur> directhex: hahaha
<Azelphur> 2 laptops, 2 phones, tablet and smartwatch xD
<TheWhiteRussian> draft the results are good, my graphics work in older thing OR my graphic is unknown to ubuntu
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> pondering what to do with potatoes
<popey> having ham for tea
<popey> might make some cauliflour cheese and maybe hash browns
<bigcalm> Be sure to do some juggling with them 1st
<popey> i dont tend to juggle
<popey> ooh, could do some roast parsnips too
<bigcalm> You should give it a go :)
<popey> maybe some home made apple sauce
<popey> http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/06/crispiest-shredded-hash-browns.html looks helpful
<popey> grate, squeeze dry, microwave for 2 mins, fry
<bigcalm> Mmm
 * popey goes to get his potato grating arms on
<popey> ttfn
<daftykins> TheWhiteRussian: "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install pastebinit" then "pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log"
<Azelphur> Anyone here ever successfully used a PC as a bluetooth headset?
<Azelphur> I try and set audio profile in blueman to hands free gateway and it just says "Failed to change profile to hfgw"...really useful error
<bigcalm> Better than failing silently or just crashing
 * Azelphur shrugs
<daftykins> lol
<TheWhiteRussian> im back drafty :D Now what should i do
<daftykins> after my commands above you mean? also i'm not drafty, my house is!
<TheWhiteRussian> your house is dafty?
<TheWhiteRussian> do  i enter your commands in terminal
<bigcalm> It's like checkers
<daftykins> TheWhiteRussian: that's the only place they'd do something, yes :)
<TheWhiteRussian> sudo apt-get update
<TheWhiteRussian> do apt-get install pastebinit
<TheWhiteRussian> pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<TheWhiteRussian> right
<TheWhiteRussian> problem
<TheWhiteRussian> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `do' aideed@aideed-OptiPlex-755:~$ apt-get install pastebinit E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied) E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
<bigcalm> TheWhiteRussian: you miss-copied
<bigcalm> sudo apt-get update
<bigcalm> sudo apt-get install pastebin
<TheWhiteRussian> E: Unable to locate package pastebin
<bigcalm> sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<bigcalm> Oops
<bigcalm> I messed up :)
<daftykins> TheWhiteRussian: i don't charge you any extra for re-reading my sentences :)
<daftykins> ty to bigcalm for the assist \o/
<TheWhiteRussian> forget about copyrights
<TheWhiteRussian> thats old
<TheWhiteRussian> even though i get screwed by sky a lot
<TheWhiteRussian> can i upgrade to 14?
<daftykins> you've ignored me explain why that's not an option, 5 times in a row now
<daftykins> if you don't understand me, maybe you should chat to #ubuntu-ru
<TheWhiteRussian> why
<Anastasius> Oh wow, I'm not banned here. It's a miracle.
<TheWhiteRussian> whats wrong with upgrading to 14
<daftykins> TheWhiteRussian: http://i.imgur.com/eGYwV.gif
 * bigcalm PMSL
<TheWhiteRussian> you really want me to die of laugher dont you? lol.
<daftykins> it is your punishment for asking me the same thing for the 6th time :)
<daftykins> Anastasius: o/
<TheWhiteRussian> i will ask the 7th time and the 8th time and the 9th until i can finally upgrade to 14. Give me a good reason why i shouldnt upgrade to 14
<Anastasius> Wait, what am I doing here?
<Anastasius> bbl.
<daftykins> TheWhiteRussian: i'm sorry, i refuse to deal with you any longer as you ignore my answers.
<daftykins> and everyone elses for that matter
<daftykins> enjoy 12.04 since it works
<TheWhiteRussian> what were your answers? It is because my computer things dont support ubuntu 14
<TheWhiteRussian> come on dafty, please man, i buy you vodka if you answer my question in good detail than i go away and cry in the corner
<aquarius_> hey, popey, do you know if old summit.ubuntu.com URLs (for sprints/meetings which have now completed) continue to live on forever?
<aquarius_> aha!
<aquarius_> "Past summits" link.
<aquarius_> So they do. Sweet.
<aquarius_> goldarnit, I spilled tea on my keyboard earlier and now the enter key keeps sticking
<aquarius_> how does one fix this sort of thing?
<bigcalm> I have custard creams \o/
<daftykins> aquarius_: pop it off and clean it with isopropanol
<aquarius_> clean the keycap or the actual keyboard contacts themselves?
<aquarius_> also, I haven't got any isopropanol :)
<aquarius_> does everyone else own this stuff already?
<bigcalm> aquarius_: water down some vodka?
<bigcalm> czajkowski: did you sort out your battery woes?
<SuperEngineer> aquarius_, if  what you *do* have is time - disconnect it.. and aim the shower head at it!  souunds crazy but if you have time to let it dry [& you are able to take the risk of a fail]... it's a good *last* resort
<SuperEngineer> [but always try air duster first!
<aquarius_> I am nowhere near annoyed enough about this to put my lovely wireless logitech keyboard in the shower, thank you very much :)
<SuperEngineer> ho well
<aquarius_> I can see the theory, but the risk of failure there is high enough that it's a big no-no
<SuperEngineer> do you want to borrow my lovely Logitech wireless keyboard?
<aquarius_> alcohol would be better
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<aquarius_> but I'd have to go out and buy propanol
<awilkins> aquarius_, Depends on the keyboard
<aquarius_> propan-2-ol, I assume, hence the iso
 * aquarius_ checks
<aquarius_> yes! I remember some chemistry from university :)
<awilkins> What are the switches? Membrane? Mechanical?
<awilkins> Don't want to use vicious chemicals that will degrade silicone rubber if it's a membrane keyboard
<SuperEngineer> aquarius_, is it's rubber I have a cleaner for that [Lixton fluid] - if you can source that
<aquarius_> Cor, don't know whether it's rubber or not. I assume I'd have to take the keycaps off to know that?
<daftykins> wireless keyboard!?
<awilkins> Are the keys clicky or "fluppy"
<daftykins> aquarius_: give me your geek license right now and get out :P
<daftykins> ;)
<aquarius_> awilkins, fluppy
<aquarius_> I don't like clicky keyboards :)
<awilkins> Fluppy keys are usually a membrane keyboard, unless you took great care to obtain a mechanical keyboard with non-clicky switches
<awilkins> Wireless logitech is probably membrane
<awilkins> After spending all that money on the transceiver they ain't going to be splashing out on decent switches
<SuperEngineer> and if it's  membrane - a high pressure shower head is a good cure!
<aquarius_> "oh look, Logitech, I normally like their stuff, and it's, like, 20 quid for a wireless keyboard and a mouse, sweet" probably is not "great care" ;)
<aquarius_> SuperEngineer, I am worried that it's a good cure in the same way that decapitation is a good cure for baldness ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...but it *does* cure balness!
<aquarius_> Your honour, the defence rests.
<SuperEngineer> aquarius_, isopronanol vs new Â£20 keyboard?.... maybe time for new keyboard - easier to aquire than suffiecient isopropanol
<SuperEngineer> and a new keyboard won't rot your old keyboard
<aquarius_> while I basically agree with that sentiment, buying a new keyboard just because I spilled tea on this one and make a key stick seems pretty Marie Antoinette even for me :)
<SuperEngineer> then rinse the darned thing!
 * SuperEngineer sighs
<daftykins> aquarius_: take it out and clean it damn it
<SuperEngineer> or even a "more than damop" sponge wish mild detergent!
<aquarius_> ya, that's the plan, indeed
<daftykins> even if you just run the key and any removable bit under the tap and then dry them thoroughly
<SuperEngineer> daftykins, thank you
 * daftykins tips his hat
<awilkins> Yeah, water doesn't harm most modern keyboards as long as you make sure they are dry before use
<awilkins> It's tea. With sugar in. That's the problem.
<zmoylan-pi> flip them upside down to let the water drain out asap
<aquarius_> ya. the sugar is the issue :)
<awilkins> I care for a 1996 Model M. Keyboard longevity is an important issue to me
<zmoylan-pi> how much sugar do you put in your tea to make that much of a difference??
<zmoylan-pi> and the ability to use it as a backup weapon in the event of zombies
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - I wonder if sugar could be removed with something like, perhaps WATER!  ;)
<daftykins> lol
<aquarius_> yeah, yeah, I get it, put it in the shower. I can't do that now, I'm typing on it and I do not want to do without it for two days :)
<aquarius_> but clearly that's the approach here.
<SuperEngineer> at last!
<SuperEngineer> gold star to aquarius_
<SuperEngineer> [but warning - the longer it's left, the harder the removal gets]
 * SuperEngineer wants an old IBM big click keyboard
<zmoylan-pi> and a moose hunting licence...
<SuperEngineer> oooo , yes please, chocoate moose for me
<penguin42> ooh yes
 * penguin42 is typing on a Model M here - it does have a slightly sticky right shift key
 * zmoylan-pi has choccie donut
<map> good tv night tonight yay
 * zmoylan-pi has a new dvd copy of 'the young ones' to rip
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi, when it's ripped - please send me the file/s - I'll test them for you!
<map> the young ones..never even heard of that
<zmoylan-pi> that would be highly illegal and i'm sure they're already online. ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> sigh...
<SuperEngineer> darn, you saw through my plot
<zmoylan-pi> hard to believe there was only 2 seasons, short bbc seasons at that
<SuperEngineer> the young ones - Rick Mayall & Adrian Edmunson - try that on google
<SuperEngineer> map ^
<map> will do;D
<map> 1 more ep of arrow then work:(
<SuperEngineer> oi! this is a family friendly channel. stop using the "w" word!
<penguin42> yeh, especially on a weekend
<map> heh
<map> :)
<bigcalm> I'm at home, in the office, working
<bigcalm> Yay work from home and not knowing how to stop
<penguin42> bigcalm: I'm at home, in the office, not working;  I've been off for a week and start work again tomorrow; same chair, same office, same radiator, same monitor; not working
 * zmoylan-pi hands bigcalm a box set of st:ds9
<map> shocking scenes
<map> speaking to some girl and she hasn't got the internet in the uk..makes do with wifi at work she said
<map> O_o
<bigcalm> Fair doos to her
<map> can't imagine not having internet at home
<map> pfft
<zmoylan-pi> some people aren't that interested in the internet.  she probably has a life
<map> lol
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: A what?
<zmoylan-pi> and a study in ireland said some quite high number including folks under 30 have never used the internet
<map> im paying for 2 internets and both get under the speed i pay for
<map> :(
<zmoylan-pi> i'm paying nothing for broadband and a pittance on pre pay for mobile.  /cheapskate
<map> :D
<map> im paying Â£56 for my ee contract..but it's working out ok now im not UK free calls and texts to eu
<map> Â£83 for 100mbit gibtelecom (not 100mbit never gets above 15) emailed and no reply
<map> and i think Â£40? for sky 'fibre'
<zmoylan-pi> landlord gives me free wifi for free tech support and i pay â¬5 every 2-3 months for tesco mobile
<map> cool
<map> you not use much 3g?
<zmoylan-pi> i use mobile broadband maybe twice a month when i'm out gaming at rpgs and maybe a dozen sms a month
<bigcalm> zmoylan-pi: how old are you?
<zmoylan-pi> 44
<bigcalm> My wife is 42 and doesn't use mobile data much. Maybe it's an age thing
<zmoylan-pi> been using smartphones since 2004.  getting sick of them tbh
<penguin42> bigcalm: I found I'm using it a lot less now that I don't commute
<map> how far was your old commute
<zmoylan-pi> and i've been using psion organisers since '94
<bigcalm> I thought I didn't use it a lot. Then my EE contract was renewed with a lower monthly limit and I'm constantly going over it :(
<map> whats your limit bigcalm ?
<map> my ee has 20gb 4g
<bigcalm> 500mb. The sales person convinced me that I used about 300mb a month :(
<map> sheesh 500mb isnt much at all
<map> sales people lie
<zmoylan-pi> well if you put in some block on cat videos and pics... :-p
<bigcalm> I wish I could increase it
<map> cant you add a data addon
<map> ee website says you can
 * bigcalm goes to look
<daftykins> you must do, i was looking up their options the other day :)
<penguin42> bigcalm: I'm on the T-mobile PAYG internet (#20/6months); it's not clear if it's actually limited for 'browsing' but they don't say what they mean by that;
<bigcalm> I do not see a data option within the add-ons that I can buy
<ali1234> that's because you are on EE now
<ali1234> there is no way to go back to t-mobile once you renew
<bigcalm> I didn't expect to do so
<ali1234> EE plans are significantly more expensive
<map> they are?
<map> i thought ee was ok
<bigcalm> But I would like to increase my monthly data plan without having to spend Â£5 for 1GB for 10 days
<ali1234> yes, at t-mobile i pay less than Â£10 per month which includes the 1GB data add-on
<ali1234> my contract has ended but i am still paying monthly
<ali1234> if i "renew" i will be forced to choose a plan from EE, which start at Â£20 per month for 500MB
<penguin42> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQffxXdzK58&list=PLu1w7kB88QLoS8R1aq8ucHHr7rSeA2mbt   (at 0:19) I've never seen a rollercoaster witha  warning sign on not to carry dogs
<penguin42> ali1234: Switch to PAYG and see how well it works with them
<map> some contracts have as little as 250 and yet on ads they talk about streaming video and music..so uhhh how much can you do with 250
<zmoylan-pi> 20 a month for 500mb? are the packets delivered in a limo or something?
<ali1234> penguin42: Â£10 month for 500MB on PAYG
<map> ;D
<map> see that storuy about someone having a huge bill uisng wireless on singapore airlines..when you go over your prepaid package right they CHARGE PER KILOBYTE
<map> LOL
<zmoylan-pi> tesco mobile in ireland are 70c a day with 50mb last time i looked.  using opera mini i can make that last all day
<ali1234> oh, they have a monthly option now too: Â£14.99 for 500MB
<map> i use opera on my laptop..always liked it..most people dont it seems tho
<zmoylan-pi> 1gb a month of data if you plan to use your phone every day is about minimum i think that is acceptable
<penguin42> ali1234: http://ee.co.uk/help/accounts-billing-and-topping-up/terms-and-conditions/t-mobile-terms-and-conditions/payg/pay-as-you-go-boosters  I use the '6 month internet booster'
<penguin42> ali1234: 'Pay as you go customer? If you have a compatible phone, you can text 6MONTHWEB to 441 for free from your T-Mobile phone to buy our 6-month Booster giving you 6 months of unlimited internet browsing on your phone. '
<SuperEngineer> I could sympathise; or I could make you jealous and mention my 15GB/month/Â£16 3 dongle ;)
<penguin42> ali1234: They don't define 'browsing' though
<zmoylan-pi> and then how much do they charge after 6 months unlimited browsing
 * SuperEngineer chooses... sympahtise
<ali1234> penguin42: that's a t-mobile plan...
<penguin42> ali1234: Yes
<zmoylan-pi> it's a scam.  they offer umpteen 'plans' and no way to know exactly what you'll get for that
<bigcalm> I might move to a deal from Tesco when I renew in 2016
<map> annoying how long these contracts are now
<map> 2 years..pft
<bigcalm> I wanted the SGS 5
<bigcalm> Ho humm
<ali1234> i might go PAYG and then not top it up unless i know i will use it
<ali1234> which is about once every 6 months
<zmoylan-pi> paging doc brown, paging doc brown... :-) http://i.imgur.com/VFREHJD.jpg
<penguin42> ali1234: Right, that's what I do
<map> off to worksie
<map> :D
<map> workies sounds better
<map> buh bye
<ali1234> i could probably get by on the 100MB data/10 minutes/10 texts pack actually
<ali1234> that would be like Â£5 per month
 * zmoylan-pi welcomes ali1234 to the cheapskate club :-)
<penguin42> ali1234: Check out the '3' deal for that
<penguin42> ali1234: They have a 1/2/3 deal that I think is 1p/MB, 2p minute, 3p/text - or something like that
<ali1234> 1p/MB?
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> ali1234: http://www.three.co.uk/Store/SIM/Pay_As_You_Go
<ali1234> found it
<ali1234> is it 4GEEEEEEE?
<penguin42> ali1234: Note it maybe limit on how long a topup lasts etc
<penguin42> ali1234: Yes
<penguin42> ali1234: But becareful, you can probably burn through 100MB of 4GEEEE in no timeeee
<ali1234> i don't actually have a $G phone
<zmoylan-pi> when 4g first came out couldn't you burn through your monthly cap in about 20 minutes?
<TheBlackRussian> hey dafty i fixed the problem!
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: oh did you now?
<TheBlackRussian> i installed the 32 bit of ubuntu 14. 1 hour - No screen artifact what so ever
<TheBlackRussian> you see, us russians are genius
<TheBlackRussian> IntelÂ® Q35 x86/MMX/SSE2 <- Thats what the graphic now say
<ali1234> 32 bit uses less memory, also probably handles memcpy differently which might avoid the swizzling error
<ali1234> as such, it might just take longer to happen, or it might be fixed
<TheBlackRussian> i dont care, as long as i dont have to log off every 10 minutes than i am a happy man :D also with all my themes installed it will be hard to tell screen artifacts. Well the background may be messy
<TheBlackRussian> what does mmx and sse2 stand for anyways
<ali1234> mmx is a CPU extension for parallel floating point operations
<ali1234> SSE2 is pretty much the same thing
<ali1234> they are designed mainly to accelerate video decoding
<TheBlackRussian> im getting error messages when booting up
<ali1234> they are both over 10 years old and everything has them
<MartijnVdS> popey: this may be easier than twitter ;)
<ali1234> oh, wifi channel 13 problems?
<ali1234> hardware that believes it is in a different country is common
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I had to recompile my OpenWRT because the Atheros driver was backwards
<TheBlackRussian> How do i change the boot menu back to the windows verison
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: you know i said to install 32-bit right?
<MartijnVdS> it only allowed *restricting* channel/power sets, not adding (so a router that claimed to be "US" in its firmware becomes unable to use Ch12/13)
<TheBlackRussian> you said ubuntu 12 32bit
<TheBlackRussian> i installed ubuntu 14 32 bit
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but there's a compile flag (well "make menuconfig" but a flag anyway) that fixes the behaviour
<TheBlackRussian> because i couldnt stand using ubuntu 12
<daftykins> alright, well pretend it was your solution if it makes you feel better ;)
<TheBlackRussian> you cant accept i fixed it all by myself after you refused to help me
<TheBlackRussian> he he
<daftykins> after i told you something 5x and you ignored it :)
<daftykins> well, glad you accidentally found a possible solution then!
<popey> MartijnVdS: maybe â»
<popey> MartijnVdS: well, on the command line I can force GB
<popey> MartijnVdS: and reading back it confirms it did it
<TheBlackRussian> :D you cant take it cant you, you lost against a russian AGAIN
<MartijnVdS> popey: oh that's good, does it have atheros or broadcom? (it's part of the firmware filename)
<MartijnVdS> arXXX = atheros
<MartijnVdS> broadcom has.. brcm in there somewhere usually
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: you have a bad attitude. grow up.
<popey> Atheros AR71xx hardware watchdog driver version 0.1.0
<MartijnVdS> popey: and "iw reg set gb" + "iw info" show that the channel is now available?
<TheBlackRussian> i understand dafty. you calling me bad attitude. How many times did the russians crash you germans eh. over 9000. we tea bagged you lot
<popey> root@hawking:~# iw reg get
<popey> country GB:
<daftykins> who is German 0o
<MartijnVdS> popey: try "iw info", it'll show if the channel is *actually* activated:
<MartijnVdS> uh iw list
<TheBlackRussian> your german right dafty?
<daftykins> what on earth gave you that idea 0o
<popey> MartijnVdS: what am I looking for?
<MartijnVdS> popey: "Frequencies:"
<popey>                         * 2472 MHz [13] (17.0 dBm) (passive scanning)
<popey> how do i restart the wireless/network ?
<popey> without rebooting
<TheBlackRussian> Lets forget about this dafty, ^^
<MartijnVdS> popey: "wifi" or /etc/init.d/networking reload
<MartijnVdS> popey: passive scanning only means you can't start an AP on that frequency
<popey> oh
<popey> thats what I want
<popey> I ran iwlist on the AP itself
<MartijnVdS> popey: if you run dmesg, look for a line about:
<MartijnVdS> [   10.070000] ath: EEPROM indicates default country code should be used
<MartijnVdS> and "Country alpha2"
<MartijnVdS> mine says it's using "US" even though it's a Dutch device :(
<popey> cfg80211: Regulatory domain changed to country: GB
<MartijnVdS> yeah that's later
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9047379/
<TheBlackRussian> guys, how can i still a anti virus and utorrent on ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> So the EEPROM says "This is a US wifi chip, don't use frequencies that aren't allowed there", then the (less restrictive, because ch12/13 are allowed, and some 5GHz stuff) GB regdom is applied on top of that.. which gives you not a lot more
<TheBlackRussian> install*
<MartijnVdS> but with the driver patch, it's changed to "Whatever is set with 'iw reg set' is gospel" and all channels will work
<czajkowski> bigcalm: nope laptop still fecked unless hooked up to power supply
<czajkowski> however just about to order a new laptop :D
<popey> right, but the problem is after booting it doesn't bring the wifi up
<popey> even after setting to GB
<MartijnVdS> yeah, because (ch1-11 + [client only 12+13]) doesn't allow an AP on ch13
<popey> bummer
<popey> ah well â¹
<MartijnVdS> well there's a fix :)
<ali1234> popey: the card also broadcasts what region it thinks it is in
<popey> is it a painful fix
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's a setting in Openwrt ;)
<MartijnVdS> 802.11d I think?
<popey> i barely ever touch this openwrt router
<MartijnVdS> popey: nah, either recompile all of openwrt (or the bits you need) or... http://luci.subsignal.org/~jow/reghack/
<ali1234> the list of allowed channels is actually the intersection of what is in the eeprom, what the operating system says, and what the other device you are connecting to says
<popey> so I am using r27832 of openwrt
<popey> will that hack work?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yeah, and the eeprom is often wrong, so they made a compile flag to disable its authority
<MartijnVdS> popey: is that 14.07 (barrier breaker)?
<popey> no idea
<popey> how do I find out?
<MartijnVdS> when did you download/install it
<popey> i haven't updated it for years
<popey> wouldn't know how â»
<ali1234> yes, but if you have a eeprom that says US and you disable it, then now you can make an AP that runs on channel 13 and tells everyone it is US... so then other devices won't connect to it, even though it appears to be working
<popey> Linux hawking 2.6.39.2 #1 Sat Jul 30 08:54:25 MST 2011 mips GNU/Linux
<MartijnVdS> popey: cat /etc/openwrt_version
<popey> no such file
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: OpenWRT won't allow that, because if you say "Broadcast country: US", it'll set the regulatory domain first, and that doesn't allow APs on ch13
<MartijnVdS> popey: then you're not on 14.07 :)
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> popey: which is their shiniest release
<popey> is it possible to OTA update?
<MartijnVdS> popey: yes, get the correct firmware for your router model, scp or wget it to /tmp (because (ram)disk space)
<MartijnVdS> popey: then "sysupgrade -v /tmp/thatfile"
<popey> kk
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: it is possible to set country GB and still have the hardware broadcasting packets with the US flag, because of crappy firmware
<popey> how do you find out which download to use?
<ali1234> popey: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/04/%23ubuntu-uk.txt
<popey> aha http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/netgear/wndr3700
<ali1234> you installed bleeding edge openwrt in 2011 and then never updated it...
<popey> that sounds about right â»
<zmoylan-pi> living on the edge...
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it is, but you'll have to manually h4x0r the regulatory db to do it. Which isn't trivial.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I've tried :)
<MartijnVdS> For some reason, lots of APs where I live broadcast that they're German or French
<MartijnVdS> (probably because they're Fritz!Boxes and Fritz doesn't care, and the French ones are cheaply imported cable modems)
<MartijnVdS> I'm going to test https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?pid=195153#p195153 now
 * popey is confused
<ali1234> this is why i use cables
<popey> heh
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> popey: what are you confused about?
<penguin42> ali1234: Yes, always good to be able to follow your packets
<popey> which file to download
<popey> http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/netgear/wndr3700 gets me to http://downloads.openwrt.org/barrier_breaker/14.07/
<MartijnVdS> that's good
<MartijnVdS> then ar71xx I think?
<popey> i guess
<popey> then a load of stuff in generic
<popey> aha
<MartijnVdS> I'd say.. something like http://downloads.openwrt.org/barrier_breaker/14.07/ar71xx/generic/openwrt-ar71xx-generic-wndr3700-squashfs-sysupgrade.bin ?
<popey> http://downloads.openwrt.org/barrier_breaker/14.07/ar71xx/generic/openwrt-ar71xx-generic-wndr3700-squashfs-sysupgrade.bin
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> evening folks
<daftykins> heya \o
<popey> ok, so downloaded that...
<czajkowski> ello daftykins good weekend ?
<bigcalm> Morning czajkowski
<popey> sysupgrade -v openwrt-ar71xx-generic-wndr3700-squashfs-sysupgrade.bin
<czajkowski> bigcalm: you on hosl ?
<czajkowski> *hols
<popey> yes?
<czajkowski> x1 ordered :D
<daftykins> czajkowski: yes ty :) all quiet, just like i like it! yourself?
<penguin42> czajkowski: oh enjoy
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I wish, just always feels like the day has just started when I find myself on IRC
<bigcalm> czajkowski: was the battery not registering with a live cd then?
<czajkowski> bigcalm: nope
<bigcalm> :(
<czajkowski> penguin42: had one before loved it
<czajkowski> fast charge and light weight
<czajkowski> now if I could just find both pairs of sunglasses it'd a good evening
<czajkowski> lost two pairs :(
<daftykins> D:
<penguin42> czajkowski: You've checked your nose?
<daftykins> that's bad luck for shades
<penguin42> and where are you that needs sunglasses - we won't need any until May
<czajkowski> penguin42: indeed, having not had a need for them due to well lack of sunshine I find myself in need of them for my next trip
<popey> MartijnVdS: sysupgrade -v openwrt-ar71xx-generic-wndr3700-squashfs-sysupgrade.bin
<popey> yes?
 * daftykins pushes the cat off, then sits up
<czajkowski> penguin42: Germany, San Fran, Paris in the next 4 weeks :)
<czajkowski> oh and Ireland this weekend coming, however no real need for sunglasses there
 * popey is off to Turkey next week
<czajkowski> popey: ohh nice work/hols?
<popey> work
<czajkowski> long sprint ? chance to see some of the sights?
<popey> just a day
<popey> event
<czajkowski> ah which one?
<popey> Dell partner event
<czajkowski> cool
<MartijnVdS> popey: looks good!
<czajkowski> so need to buy a house soon :( have it already done up and DIYd in my head and via pinterest!
<popey> Invalid image type.
<popey> erk
<popey> Image check 'platform_check_image' failed.
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<ali1234> flash from command line
<popey> that is
<popey> i only have a command line â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: did you put it in /tmp, and is the file size (and/or checksum) correct?
<ali1234> check the checksums
<popey> yes, in tmp
<popey> root@hawking:/tmp# md5sum openwrt-ar71xx-generic-wndr3700-squashfs-sysupgrade.bin
<popey> 1c82bb4d2f5a1afd2c5d4e20a95f5003  openwrt-ar71xx-generic-wndr3700-squashfs-sysupgrade.bin
<popey> root@hawking:/tmp# grep openwrt-ar71xx-generic-wndr3700-squashfs-sysupgrade.bin md5sums
<MartijnVdS> Maybe you have the "v2"?
<popey> 1c82bb4d2f5a1afd2c5d4e20a95f5003 *openwrt-ar71xx-generic-wndr3700-squashfs-sysupgrade.bin
<popey> looks good
<popey> i do
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://downloads.openwrt.org/barrier_breaker/14.07/ar71xx/generic/openwrt-ar71xx-generic-wndr3700v2-squashfs-sysupgrade.bin ?
<popey> ah!
<popey> ta
<MartijnVdS> ^ that's a different file
<popey> didnt realise it was different file.. doh
<MartijnVdS> (remove the first one from /tmp first though)
<popey> ya
<popey> ok, running
<MartijnVdS> (yay sanity checks in software ;))
<popey> "Saving config files..."
<popey> hope it doesn't trash them...?
<MartijnVdS> popey: it makes a tar.gz, puts it at the end of firmware space and reboots (after reboot, it untars them again in /etc)
<MartijnVdS> it's really nifty
<popey> hmmm
<popey> its not come back
<popey> how long should this take? â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: it can take a while?
<popey> ok
<MartijnVdS> popey: what are the lights doing
<popey> dunno, it's the other end of the house â»
<popey> I'll go check
<popey> one green light, one orange
<MartijnVdS> popey: does it ping yet?
<popey> no
<popey> yes!
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<popey>  BARRIER BREAKER (14.07, r42625)
<popey> \o/
<popey> thank you!
<MartijnVdS> np
<popey> so now do http://luci.subsignal.org/~jow/reghack/README.txt ?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<popey> kk
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9047777/
<popey> that look okay?
<MartijnVdS> yeah, now reboot again
<MartijnVdS> (so it reloads the driver )
<popey> kk
<MartijnVdS> then do "iw list", and it should show those channels as available
<popey>                         * 2472 MHz [13] (17.0 dBm) (no IR)
<MartijnVdS> IR?
<popey> no idea
<MartijnVdS> ah.. it didn't fix it 100%
<MartijnVdS> "NO-IR flag then means you cannot use modes of operation that require you to initiate radiation first"
<MartijnVdS> i.e. an access point
<popey> bah
<popey> bummer
<ali1234> i tooooooooold you
<ali1234> get the tool for rewriting the eeprom
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: recompiling with CONFIG_ATH_USER_REGD is way easier
<ali1234> oh, you didn't do that yet?
<popey> no
<ali1234> carry on
<popey> i think i may move it to 11 for now. getting grief for shutting down the wifi â»
<MartijnVdS> :P
<MartijnVdS> popey: I have a current buildroot. I could build you a fixed firmware if you want
<popey> that would be nice!
<popey> will probably not do this till tomorrow when they aren't here
<popey> I'm on wired so I dont care â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: you only use it as a plain AP?
<MartijnVdS> no weird/special stuff?
<popey> it bridges
<popey> i can paste my network config if you wanna see
<MartijnVdS> popey: OK
<popey> ok, its up now, on ch11 â»
<popey> thanks. off to chill
<popey> o/
<czajkowski> https://www.eventbrite.com/e/couchbase-mobile-developer-workshop-tickets-14260398235
<czajkowski> open to all and a is a free workshop if anyone is interested
<popey> \o/ it works
<MartijnVdS> popey: I mailed you the firmware I built
<popey> thanks!
<czajkowski> popey: heard much about the one plus one phone ?
<daftykins> czajkowski: i bought one of those but sold it on. i think i still have an invite
<czajkowski> nice to use?
<czajkowski> tempted to get a nexus 5
<czajkowski> no sign of the 6 coming out
<daftykins> bit on the large side i found, depends how you get on with the 'phablets'
<popey> czajkowski: yes, played with them.
<czajkowski> currently got a samsung 4 zoom
<czajkowski> nice phone - low on storage and battery doing my noggin in
<czajkowski> sotry of my life - my battery woes!
 * zmoylan-pi hugs dumbphone with infinite battery :-)
<daftykins> :/ tried powering off fully and charging overnight whilst turned off? or buying a new battery and doing the same?
 * popey flashes his nexus 7 to android l
<daftykins> alright really must sleep :D nn all \o
<arsenip> heyoo
<arsenip> sleep daftykins ?!
<arsenip> its not even 9 yet.
<arsenip> anyone much experience with proxmox?
 * brobostigon will probably wait for cm12 for his nexus 7, for android 5 goddness.
<popey> why?
<brobostigon> or, i might dual boot both versions.
<brobostigon> that would work.
<brobostigon> i just dont like having to go through the process of resetup and reinstall.
<popey> Android L has a really nice setup thing
<popey> (assuming you have two devices)
<popey> you can put it back to back with another device and it migrates everything over
<brobostigon> as i said, there are ways of dual booting two android versions that are seperate on the same device, i might do that.
<popey> i wasnt talking about that, I was talking about not having to go through re-setup and re-install
<brobostigon> have tried it before on my nexis 7, works well.
<brobostigon> now that sounds very useful.
<brobostigon> would definatly help.
<brobostigon> does it use nfc?
<popey> yes, nfc and bluetooth
<brobostigon> sounds interesting.
<popey> \o/ flashing now
<brobostigon> fingers crossed.
<popey> yup, done.
<brobostigon> :)
<Azelphur> anyone recommend a cheap (~Â£100) sound setup for a TV? (sound bar maybe?)
<ali1234> directhex: this debian init GR... can the people running it see the current totals? or is it done with magic encryption so the result can only be revealed at the end?
<directhex> ali1234, the project secretary can run the numbers, iirc
<directhex> the votes may optionally be encrypted by the sender, but the secretary has the decryption key for the ballot box
<ali1234> i suspect the computational cost of a 4 way vote with 1000 participants would be too high for it to be completely secret until the end
<ali1234> also it would probably require everyone to vote as well
<directhex> the software is at https://vote.debian.org/~secretary/devotee.git
<directhex> devotee is one of these bits of software which has aged like a fine cheese, since it began decades ago
<directhex> so nobody really wants to make radical changes if they can avoid it
<ali1234> you mean it's gone moldy?
<directhex> at this point it's sentient & has formed its own civilization
<ali1234> boo to flat git repos on webserver with no browser
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-09
<mapps> tired;]
<mapps> watched 2 films today heh man from uncle and knock knock
<mapps> hard day:)
<mapps> quiet time eh
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> yes
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy World Freedom Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgcTvoWjZJU  seems apt
<JamesTait> davmor2, +1
<foobarry> how can i check in perl if a variable doesn't contain special characters?
<foobarry> i'm chomping lines from a log that sometimes have weird chars like  ï¿½ï¿½
<davmor2> foobarry: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
<foobarry> oh :(
<davmor2> foobarry: perl's doc base is meant to be really good you can check there other than that someone must still use perl ;)
<foobarry> i think i just need a regexp to check for regaular alphanumeric+punctuiations
<foobarry> if ($str =~ /[^!-~\s]/g){print "Non-ASCII character found"}
<foobarry> maybe that will do it
<davmor2> foobarry: http://perldoc.perl.org/perlunicode.html that might help you
<foobarry> davmor2: the regexp fixed it for me
<davmor2> foobarry: :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> o/
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
<daftykins> aww my favourite tamed telco engineer is retiring in 4 weeks :(
<daftykins> great having a direct line to get stuff sorted :D
<zmoylan-pi> was... it WAS great having a direct line to get stuff sorted :-)
<daftykins> ;_; too soon!
<daftykins> just got a nice USB 3.0 UASP capable 2.5" SATA enclosure :D
<daftykins> also 4 x 8GB USB 2.0 flash drives for Â£8 \o/
<daftykins> trying out doing a straight up cp of an ubuntu ISO straight onto the /dev/sdX now, not tried it before
<popey> cp?
<popey> not dd?
<popey> ooh, lunch time
<daftykins> indeed! sure enough it works perfecto
<daftykins> sudo cp /path/to/iso /dev/sdX
<daftykins> a quick "sync" after to be sure, and hey presto
<popey> Anyone else use privacy badger
<popey> ?
<foobarry> nope
<foobarry> use adblock
<zmoylan-pi> i have it installed in firefox atm
<daftykins> ublock origin is a lot leaner than adblock
<foobarry> daftykins: how?
<daftykins> its' implementation is just better, give it a try
<foobarry> "This extension does not work at all in FF42. Everything is allowed now. Examples being google-analytics, scorecardresearch, facebook, etc. Everything is set to allow."
<zmoylan-pi> but be careful to use ublock origin and not the other version of ublock
<daftykins> plus it has none of the bribery whitelisting that adblock has.
<foobarry> ^^ someone moanuing about badger in ff
<foobarry> response: If you've installed a new version of it, it will take some time for Privacy Badger to re-build its hueristics. You may find that soon many of these trackers will be blocked (once they've been spotted on a few sites)
<zmoylan-pi> seems to be working/reporting trackers on firefox 42 here ok
<foobarry> others moaning that it breaks sites
<foobarry> css issues
<diddledan> if it just blocks shared assets then I wonder how it copes with things like the javascript cdn?
<diddledan> specifically https://cdnjs.com/
<Laney> booked a dentist checkup for 8.30 on thursday
<Laney> WHY
<diddledan> that's way too early
<diddledan> you'll have to not sleep! :-p
<zmoylan-pi> flannel pyjamas soak up lots of blood... :-P
<diddledan> ok. what's "ubuntu personal"?
<diddledan> teh googs isn't helping much on the term
<davmor2> diddledan: snappy based phone and desktop
<davmor2> diddledan: infact just generally phone and desktop
<diddledan> why do we need a different name?
<popey> deb vs not-deb based
<diddledan> hmm
<SuperMatt> that's a fair point
<davmor2> diddledan: because phone and desktop are the same team so why call them different things when you can call both personal, add to that table and tv and it's even easier to call it one thing rather than 4 :)
<diddledan> why can't we just call it "ubuntu"?
<SuperMatt> I think I get it. Snappy is used in phones because it's a way of being able to install applications without requiring any kind of privalege escalation. It's a personal device, so it doesn't need to be overly complex - hence ubuntu personal
<diddledan> I get why we have the name "ubuntu phone" while there's a difference between the two, but once we're unified I don't see why we can't just call it "ubuntu"
<SuperMatt> but the deb based ubuntu works in the old way. Want to install something? You need to escalate to root. This is not a personal way of doing things
<davmor2> diddledan: because all of it is ubuntu but you wouldn't install the cloud image on your phone, so we need a way to separate for the new series coming though, so Ubuntu cloud, Ubuntu server, Ubuntu Personal and Ubuntu  iot
<diddledan> ok, that makes sense
<diddledan> so when can I buy ubuntu personal?
<diddledan> :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: once snappy is stable, it's api is stable and then we have the desktop/gfx/networking/bluetooth.....frameworks in place :)
<diddledan> am I right in believing that unity8 will be default on 16.04? if so will that be ontop of mir or X+xmir?
<davmor2> diddledan: no
<diddledan> ok
<davmor2> diddledan: unity7 will be the default for 16.04, unity8/snappy (aka personal) will be targeted for 16.10 but again not as default, the users will say when it is ready for the prime time, but then the plan as I understand it that 18.04 will be personal based
<diddledan> rightio
<diddledan> so we're hoping to be personal in the next LTS
<diddledan> (after 16.04)
<davmor2> diddledan: I think that is the game plan but it depends on lots of things and user feedback etc etc etc If you listen to Marks keynote from UOS he says we will not be rushing unity8 to the desktop like we did with unity7
<diddledan> right, so we're going for more of a "when it's ready"
<diddledan> I think that is quite a good approach - have targets but not requirements
<diddledan> I hate hard deadlines
<diddledan> interesting video I'm watching on scopes from the UoS - about the javascript scopes. using node.js intrigues me because it would be interesting to explore the possibility of using node.js to create normal apps too in addition to the qml and html styles
<diddledan> hmm, node embedded in each scope that uses it
<diddledan> problem with that is increase in package size
<brobostigon> anyone familier with a hittite cuneiform translation matrix?
<davmor2> brobostigon: isn't everyone........hmmmmm not!
<brobostigon> quite.
<brobostigon> its a specilist thing.
<diddledan> I was just thinking about learning that!
<davmor2> brobostigon: the hittites were a tribe from the old testiment if that helps
<diddledan> I thought to myself about 10 minutes ago "wouldn't it be interesting to learn about a hittite cuneiform translation matrix?"
<brobostigon> davmor2: infact the hitties were a tribe that dies out in 1200bc in eastern turkey.
<brobostigon> davmor2: but yes, they were mentioned in said document as well.
 * diddledan sniggers at the similarity between the word hitties and a piece of anatomy
<davmor2> brobostigon: weren't they the ones with a city that rivalled the egyptians, set high in some mountains that made it virtually impregnable too
<brobostigon> davmor2: spot on.
<diddledan> speaking of ancient people - did you know the bible tells of ancient dwarf civilisations? the nehites and the shoehites
<davmor2> brobostigon: it's almost like I saw a tv show about it........wait a minute  I did :)
<zmoylan-pi> you're going to encode all your private docs in cuniform? :-)
<brobostigon> davmor2: :)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: what about heiroglyps?
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: i need it for a potential game a friend of mine has suggested.
<davmor2> brobostigon: so cuniform is their version of heiroglyphs right
<zmoylan-pi> that's just emojii... not cool now, not cool then :-)
<diddledan> lol
<brobostigon> davmor2: cuneiform is the writing system they used, yes.
<diddledan> cuniform was just a series of lines iirc?
<brobostigon> no.
<diddledan> shows how much I know :-p
<zmoylan-pi> wedge shaped impressions in clay iirc
<diddledan> I R CLEVR
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform
<diddledan> that was taught by the aliens, right?
<davmor2> brobostigon: from what I remember from the show, isn't it like tall pyramid shape that made up characters similar to chinese/japanese
<davmor2> ah it is \o/ I rock at remembering tv shows
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tDJP1Ctci8
<brobostigon> davmor2: kindof, i am familier with cuneiform, i need a software engine to be able to potentially assist the user with the idea i mentioned above.
<diddledan> brobostigon, does google translate work? :-p
<brobostigon> it also depends on which version of cuneiform, it varied quite a bit, over tis 35000 odd years in usage.
<brobostigon> diddledan: somehow i think thats very unlikely.
<diddledan> that's almost like a real language!
<zmoylan-pi> you have an extra 0 there unless you want to go the whole aliens route :-)
<davmor2> brobostigon: maybe make tiles and then treat it like mahjonng
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, definitely go the aliens route!
<brobostigon> davmor2: :)
 * diddledan cites the youtube link above
<davmor2> brobostigon: or better still scrabble
<brobostigon> lol.
<zmoylan-pi> i thought i was geeky playing a rpg with a latin root... :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: amateur
<zmoylan-pi> and just in time to preserve your tweets... http://dumbcuneiform.com/
<davmor2> popey: I wonder if we can do band names for the next alphabet cycle, Adam Ant, Beastie boys, culture club.... it could catch on right :)
<zmoylan-pi> or 8 bit computers... atari, bbc, commodore...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: needs to be AA, BB, CC etc
<diddledan> isn't it supposed to be adjective/noun?
<davmor2> diddledan: yes
<davmor2> diddledan: but band names shakes it up a bit :)
<diddledan> in which case your CC would have to be cultured club
<zmoylan-pi> using the names might cause legal issues...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: ofcourse it would it's not a serious suggestion :P
<diddledan> what about body parts?
<zmoylan-pi> it is sad that such a simple idea couldn't get past a wild idea stage...
<diddledan> epic eyes?
<diddledan> crazy calfs?
<zmoylan-pi> dynamic duodenum
<diddledan> ooh good one
<diddledan> strenuous sternum
<zmoylan-pi> a.... hmmmm.... :-)
<diddledan> acute anus
<daftykins> what did i channel switch into...
<davmor2> arterial aorta
<zmoylan-pi> humongus hemaroids...
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> what are we naming again? :-p
<diddledan> what about viruses? contagious clamidia?
<davmor2> diddledan: get your coat
<diddledan> davmor2, have I pulled?
<diddledan> or am I being kicked out?
<diddledan> :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3OM2MA1pic
<popey> davmor2, we wont need names, we'll be rolling by then :)
<davmor2> popey: ah of course every release is rawhide
<diddledan> my gmail spambox is full of brightly coloured animated icons in the subject lines
<daftykins> yeah i've been getting those the last week or two
 * davmor2 doesn't look at his spam folder
<davmor2> makes me cry
<diddledan> I try to remember to go through every so often
<diddledan> one problem I have is several accounts are all set to forward to a single place but each of those seem to have different spam catching than the final destination
<diddledan> apparently my spambox thinks I have a partner, and that I want to cheat on that partner
<diddledan> so not only has it given me a partner I wasn't aware of, but it's also decided that I need to be a cheating bar steward
<Myrtti> I go through everything daily
<diddledan> I guess I need to stop cheating and start loving the partner that I manage to have completely overlooked
<Myrtti> unread emails is 0 at all times
<davmor2> diddledan: maybe it is that spambox has a partner and it is cheating and it is hiding it's mail by addressing it to you knowing it will get forwarded as spam to itself
<diddledan> I hear that gmail gives you an infinity symbol when you have a lot of unread
<mapps> hi all
<diddledan> ello mapps
 * daftykins looks at diddledan 
<daftykins> another dead disk!
<diddledan> -.-
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> well done!
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> i can smells 'em, i tell ya!
<diddledan> keep 'em coming
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-10
<diddledan> this is awesome: https://torflow.uncharted.software/
<diddledan> it's a visualisation of tor traffic
<diddledan> interesting that the nexus is around europe
<diddledan> how is candy crush worth 5.9beeleon dollars?
<zmoylan-pi> maybe they've already turned down such an offer?
<diddledan> activision have bought them for 5.9
<zmoylan-pi> maybe they want to backport candy crush to the atari 2600...
<zmoylan-pi> or they see ms buying minecraft and want their own 'universe'
 * diddledan__ blows raspberries
 * zmoylan-pi prefers rasp pi's
<jimmy_will> Hi dudes
<jimmy_will> New here
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<jimmy_will> Im not a native English speeker,trying to improve
<zmoylan-pi> well the english in here is terrible :-)
<jimmy_will> oh
<jimmy_will> sorry
<zmoylan-pi> it's a joke :-)
<jimmy_will> didnt get it
<jimmy_will> not a native speaker
<jimmy_will> XD
<zmoylan-pi> what's your native language?
<jimmy_will> Mandarin
<zmoylan-pi> a hard starting point to learn english from
<jimmy_will> yeah
<zmoylan-pi> mainland china?
<jimmy_will> yeah
<jimmy_will> mainland
<zmoylan-pi> is it easy to access irc from there.  i'm curious
<jimmy_will> it is easy
<jimmy_will> but hard for google and youtube
<zmoylan-pi> as long as irc is unblocked :-)
<jimmy_will> irc is always unblocked
<zmoylan-pi> can't stop the signal mal - firefly
<jimmy_will> what is a signal mal?
<zmoylan-pi> a quote from firefly tv show.  a character talking to mal says it. sorry
<jimmy_will> ok i see
<jimmy_will> never watched that show
<zmoylan-pi> only 14 episodes and 1 movie.  worth watching
<jimmy_will> ill try
<jimmy_will> i watch Doctor WHO and the IT crowed
<zmoylan-pi> if you like it crowd make sure you catch black books and father ted
<jimmy_will> and sherlock holmes
<jimmy_will> never heard of black books and father ted
<jimmy_will> cant get any info about those in mainland china
<zmoylan-pi> same weird comedy as it crowd but different
<jimmy_will> ok
<jimmy_will> i'll try to look for them
<jimmy_will> thanks
<zmoylan-pi> so what os do you use?
<jimmy_will> ubuntu
<jimmy_will> 15.10
<jimmy_will> switch from windows 7 this morning
<zmoylan-pi> what's the linux user scene like in china?
<jimmy_will> most of people never heard of linux
<jimmy_will> they dont even know what a os is
<jimmy_will> an os
<zmoylan-pi> i thought  china had red flag linux a few years back? a home grown distro...
<jimmy_will> hmm
<jimmy_will> never use that distro
<jimmy_will> there is a distro called deepin linux
<jimmy_will> based on ubuntu
<zmoylan-pi> oh i'd trust it as much as a distro from nsa or gchq :-)
<jimmy_will> does nsa mean national security agency?
<zmoylan-pi> yup
<jimmy_will> what does gchq mean then?
<jimmy_will> cant find any result from google translate
<zmoylan-pi> gchq is the british equivalent
<jimmy_will> oh
<jimmy_will> i see
<jimmy_will> i have to go back to work
<jimmy_will> glad to talk to you
<zmoylan-pi> well take care o/
<jimmy_will> ttyl
<jimmy_will> bye o/
<zmoylan-pi> and trust me on firefly, father ted, blackbooks
<zmoylan-pi> :-)
<jimmy_will> without any doubt
<jimmy_will> :-)
<brobostigon> morning boy and girls.
 * zmoylan-pi squints out window and questions the use of the description morning...
<diplo> Morning all
<jimmy_will> morning and afternoon
<MooDoo> howdy all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Area Code Day! ð
<awilkins>  http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/11/09/1748237/us-spends-1bn-over-a-decade-trying-to-digitize-immigration-forms-just-1-is-online
<awilkins> $500M initial budget to digitize paper forms
<awilkins> My company is spending an order of magnitude less to establish twin datacentres capable of handling 3PB of genetic data.
<awilkins> Truly, the pork barrel runneth over in the USA
<davmor2> JamesTait: I know an area code song from rush hour 2 iirc not sure I can paste it in such a polite channel though :)
<zmoylan-pi> i'm beginning to work out why sony is in trouble.... http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/nov/10/betamax-dead-long-live-vhs-sony-end-prodution
<mapps> hi zmoylan-pi
<mapps> ;]
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<mapps> how could i block all gambling sites and make it so i cant access them
<mapps> im serious
<diplo> Edit /etc/hosts and change all the domains to 127 ?
<diplo> Block them via your router if it has that option
<mapps> but i can then change it mysellf
<diplo> But you have to physically do it, which should work with you alerting yourself
<diplo> If you're going to change it, I'd go to see a hypnotherapist, gammbling anonymous or something along those lines if you don't have the will power and you're in charge of your machine / router you obviously don't have the self will to not do it and get around your circumventions
<diplo> Those things are not bad things, just giving options
<diplo> I had a member of staff who couldn't stop visiting certain sites so I did the hosts thing on his windows machine, just having the block there was enough for him to understand it had become an issue
<mapps> yea
<zmoylan-pi> could you change it so router blocks it and give the password to a mate so you can't undo it?
<popey> mapps, ask the sites you visit to do self-exclusion
<mapps> i try but always un self exclude
<popey> get help
<diplo> I know this is an ubuntu channel but... :D I want to download the EPEL CentOS 4 packages to have as a backup, yes I know it is EOL
<diplo> Normal option would be to use rsync, but that's not supported on 4 packages
<diplo> How would anyone else do it, wget mirror ?
<popey> no idea, never used centos, so no idea how packages are served
<diplo> :) - I'd rather not :)
<diplo> Read on other repos that wget is actively discouraged but no other option apart from rsync/reposync which doesn't work :P all good fun
<directhex> is anyone currently seeding my steamos fork, stephenson's rocket? i have a new release i need to switch seeders onto
<diddledan__> directhex: I think I might be
<popey> bigcalm was
<diddledan__> directhex: do you have the magnet link handy? I can add it to my torrent box
<directhex> magnet:?xt=urn:btih:e282ac4fb18dbfae2e0be7a83411c7d47101b694&dn=StephensonsRocket2.49plus1.iso&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.demonii.com%3A1337&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.coppersurfer.tk%3A6969&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.leechers-paradise.org%3A6969
<directhex> but BW will stink until i can get it seeded by a few people
 * bigcalm looks in due to email notification. Sup?
<directhex> it's steamos release day! so i made a stephenson's rocket refresh
<diddledan__> bigcalm: how do you get irc emails?
<bigcalm> directhex: I haven't recently seeded it. Happy to do so again though. Got the torrent link?
<directhex> bigcalm: it's fastest for you to grab via http then seed, IME
<bigcalm> diddledan__: I use away proxy for irssi
<bigcalm> directhex: k
<davmor2> diddledan__: irssi proxy away
<directhex> although i'm pushing 2mb up! unprecedented!
<diddledan__> aah
<bigcalm> directhex: site url?
<bigcalm> Something about a horse?
<davmor2> diddledan__: irssi as a proxy rocks :)
<diddledan__> bigcalm: horsebattlerystaple?
<diddledan__> --l
<directhex> wasn't kidding about unprecedented, i never push more than 100k on torrent uploads from my desktop. BT throttles i assume
<daftykins> directhex: have you got another web link to snatch it and boost the torrent?
<directhex> damn google drive that was supposed to be a public link
<directhex> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0RgGqWAMEw8VWJMUVc4SXZ1UFU/view?usp=sharing
<directhex> grab it before google cuts me off :x
<bigcalm> Got it!
<diddledan__> my ratios are pretty awesome on there: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hb083u74k1k1p37/Screenshot%202015-11-10%2015.43.58.png?dl=0
<daftykins> i shall seed until i need some bandwidth ;D
<daftykins> since windows 10's autumn update comes out today
<diddledan__> it does?
<daftykins> mhmm
 * bigcalm pauses the seeding of Ubuntu Mate 15.10
<directhex> xbox one win10 upgrade on thursday!
<daftykins> indeed 8D
<daftykins> i'm wondering how big it'll be
<zmoylan-pi> so people can panic on friday \o/
<bigcalm> Back to work I go, toodles
<daftykins> i bet it'll be like patch tuesday, comes out 9am Seattle time so takes until 6pm UK
<bashrc_> got one more person onto ubuntu last weekend. Some initial grumbling, but once they realized they could still use the same apps they were ok with it
<daftykins> they can't have used much then
<bashrc_> whenever there is a Windows disaster I always use that to try to get people onto ubuntu
<bashrc_> no, I'd class them as a basic user. Email (thunderbird) firefox and a working printer and they were done
<daftykins> oh so they didn't use anything non-native
 * zmoylan-pi is giving vivaldi browser a spin and not hating it...
<daftykins> you put them on LTS so they don't have to experience the more regular ubuntu disasters? :)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: give ubuntu-browser a go :)
<zmoylan-pi> i think i tried that at one point...
<bashrc_> I did put them on LTS
<bashrc_> with automatic security updates enabled
<daftykins> ^_^
<davmor2> Hmm trying out hexchat so far looks and feels the same as xchat :)
<daftykins> just more updated so i hear!
<davmor2> indeed and supported
<zmoylan-pi> you want irssi with green text on a black background so you can irc in the dark wearing a balaclava for maximum daily mail hackerness ;-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no I don't
<daftykins> lmao
<popey> I'm using hexchat these days
<davmor2> popey: you using any plugins or just vanilla?
<popey> nope
<popey> didnt know it had any
<davmor2> popey: well there is indicator for a start :)  and then there is the plugins package which I haven't looked at yet :)
<diddledan> flash. just die already. https://threatpost.com/adobe-flash-update-includes-patches-for-17-vulnerabilities/115322/
<m0nkey_> I simply don't install it these days
<davmor2> diddledan: you can't kill flash how will lazy advert writers make money without it ;)
<m0nkey_> The other thing I want to die is Java in browsers
<m0nkey_> But alas, I need it for IPMI
<daftykins> :(
<diddledan> lol: https://twitter.com/Sidragon1/status/664143917051285504
<czajkowski> anyone remember how you move  a window to a certain number?
<daftykins> context = irssi ?
<czajkowski> yes
<czajkowski> ahh gotit
<czajkowski>    /window move 10
<czajkowski> :D
<daftykins> czajkowski: if you've not already, i didn't know that one but "/layout save" is a neat one for keeping a set order
<czajkowski> daftykins: aye so I've tried
<czajkowski> but somewhere in my evil config it has me joining to rooms
<daftykins> o0
<czajkowski> and no matter my editing it still autjoins me to them
<daftykins> how rude!
<czajkowski> I know!
<czajkowski> there are channels really I don't want to go bac kto
<daftykins> i never learnt the command set in irssi, i just manage my joins by editing the config directly XD
<czajkowski> but irssi seemingly does
<Myrtti> czajkowski: /channel list
<Myrtti> /channel add -noauto #channel
<davmor2> czajkowski: well if you will go to these channels you will attract the wrong kinda attention :D
<czajkowski> Myrtti: ohh thank you
<czajkowski> 23:02 -!- Irssi: Not enough parameters given
<Myrtti> /channel add -noauto #channel network
<czajkowski> ahh
<czajkowski> Myrtti: you're amzing thank you
<daftykins> i'm sure that was in the manual :)
<Myrtti> not really
<daftykins> yes
<Myrtti> well, kinda, but you need to know how to read the manual
<Myrtti> if you're referring to /help channel
<czajkowski> wow there was still autojoins from my canonical time
<Myrtti> Just had a mint aero. That was nicer than I thought
<czajkowski> wow that is super useful thank you Myrtti
<czajkowski> Myrtti: one more question, is there a way to also remove the list of channels from /channel list
<czajkowski> the ocd tidy kicks in
<czajkowski> so they're removed from autojoin but still show up on list
<Myrtti> doing the command above should do it
<Myrtti> /channel list is a list of channels you've got configured
<Myrtti> not necessarily a list you've got autojoins for
<czajkowski> ahh I see
<Myrtti> if you want them totally gone, /channel remove #channel network
<Myrtti> don't forget to /layout save and /save
<czajkowski> nods
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-11
<jimmy_will> Howdy all o/
<daftykins> hi
<diddledan> moobs
<daftykins> well this is rude, my new disk enclosure has started to be ignored by my xbox one
<daftykins> directhex: you used any external storage with yours?
<diddledan> daftykins, it's broke - like I said many times, you attract dead disks
<zmoylan-pi> and if you plug the external drive into any other system does it work? or does xbox demand some wacky format that only works on xbox?
 * diddledan plugs his in
<diddledan> oh, wait, disks
<diddledan> ignore me
<diddledan> this is why chanops need to sleep so that I can get away with norties
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: they use funky modifications to a standard GPT to stop PCs reading them outright
<zmoylan-pi> you can always use rude words from other languages... sassenach... :-)
<daftykins> a helpful UK chap is helping me hexedit the drive based on my disk dumps of the first 1MB :D
<diddledan> daftykins, I'll bet that weird loonicks thing can read them
<diddledan> eep
<daftykins> that's what i'm using ;) but no it can't
<diddledan> hexediting is evil at the best of times
<zmoylan-pi> oooooh, using norton disk util to read someones docs from a wonky disk.... that takes me back...
<diddledan> dang
<diddledan> I helped a dude work out what a long-lost game was that he had a photo of himself playing as a kid earlier: https://twitter.com/diddledan/status/664203318378516480
<zmoylan-pi> if windows can't read it, then it's some wacky half assed ms layer on top of ntfs deliberately to make xbox look super duper
<diddledan> I wonder if they just have the filesystem without a partition table?
<diddledan> it might also be ReFS or Storage Spaces which I don't think linux can handle yet
<diddledan> somethings tweeting outside
<diddledan> or chirping
<daftykins> well i plugged a second disk in and installed halo5 to it, brought it up and my linux lappy read from the backup GPT just fine from it
<daftykins> so there's a quirk with my first drive
<diddledan> so wily doesn't like my ms surface tablet :-p
<diddledan> it hangs shortly after booting
<diddledan> as in hard hang, not a crash
<daftykins> that fellow is cunning, we got it working by mounting the partition with losetup and an offset
<daftykins> skipping the partition tables entirely
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> aww no wily surfaces for you sir!
<diddledan> I guess I should just put my wily away :-(
<daftykins> i think it best
<daftykins> you know what the neighbours would say
<mapp> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning everyone
<diplo> Morning all
<bittin> Morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc_> morning
<jimmy_will> Morning
<davmor2> bit of 4 non blonds stuck in my head this morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy Armistice Day! ð
<jimmy_will> Ahh~
<jimmy_will> Armistice Day!
<arsenip> oh my
<arsenip> i should definitely remove my 'jimmy' highlight :D
<foobarry> heh
<jimmy_will> foobarry
<foobarry> you called?
<jimmy_will> i remember you
<foobarry> you do?
<foobarry> from when?
<jimmy_will> long long ago
<foobarry> childhood?
<arsenip> before the delorian came forward.
<jimmy_will> maybe years ago
<foobarry> i change my irc nick each year
<jimmy_will> no
<jimmy_will> maybe this year then
<arsenip> xD
<foobarry> last week?
<popey> today?
<jimmy_will> no i cant remember when
<foobarry> could have been my friend foobarbaz?
<popey> he's a dodgy one
<jimmy_will> but it is long ago
<foobarry> i was once mungojerry
<popey> \o/ new phone has finally arrived in the uk
<jimmy_will> it was ...
<foobarry> the irc stats page is gone
 * popey pokes brobostigon 
<foobarry> the domain is fone
<foobarry> gone
<popey> i still see it
<popey> but webserver down
<jimmy_will> bye guys, supper time in mainland china
<arsenip> bye
 * arsenip unremoves his highlight
<foobarry> till tomorrow
<arsenip> strange chap
<davmor2> JamesTait: wrong month for this but I believe the sentiment is still good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN4Uu0OlmTg
<Ridgewing> Found a good spiel on Ubuntu Wallpapers http://ubuntu.ecchi.ca/wallpapers/
<Ridgewing> Is everyone being v. quiet in half an hour for two minutes then ?
 * Ridgewing puts on his white pop_ey
<Ridgewing> **popp_ey
<davmor2> Ridgewing: I will be
<Ridgewing> I shall be too. [I've got a red England Rooney shirt on aswell. He's number 4]
<Ridgewing> Apparently if you touch yur red button after 8pm on Friday on the beeb - you get Mr Isaac's saying " Never befoore, in the field of human conflict, was so ... [it goes on a_bit]"
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkrPxHaqKIc   muhahahahahaha :D
<davmor2> I love the line like singing Ironic when there are no ironies :)
<marshmn> hi all; AIUI, within the Ubuntu repositories there are fonts available which are not installed by default. Is there some webpage which shows how all of these fonts look, so that I can decide which to install?
<marshmn> I'm looking for more fonts suitable for headings and things in DTP work
<popey> I dont think we have such a page
<davmor2> marshmn: there should I guess be a preview in software center in theory
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> quiet ere as ever;]
<bigcalm> Sssh
<mapps> ;]
<davmor2> it's oh so quiet, it's oh so still....
<awilkins> You're all alone. And so peaceful until........
<awilkins> A BILLION SPIDERS CRAWL OUT FROM BEHIND THE RADIATOR AND FEAST UPON YOUR EYEBALLS
<bashrc_> is that a Canonical mission statement?
<diddledan> davmor2, then someone makes a riat
<diddledan> (she never pronounced that right for some reason)
<diddledan> maybe she said it as riet, rather than riat. either way it was not riot
<davmor2> diddledan: dude you can hardly speak English give the foreigner a break :D
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> good point
<diddledan> bloomin foreigners being foreign
<diddledan> doing their foreign things with other foreigners
<diddledan> you'd think they were just like everyone else the way they behave
<diddledan> I hold higher standards! only natives are allowed to be eejits
 * bashrc_ imagines Shuttleworth announcing spider eyeball convergence story
<diddledan> anywho I'm off
<awilkins> On the matter of the Icelandic Singing Pixie : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A78yTvIY1k
<bashrc> "for the next generation of ubuntu convergent devices we've made having spiders crawl out of your phone and feasting upon your eyeballs into a simple and elegant user experience. Just swipe down like this, and then..."
<awilkins> I'm reading that in Bjork's voice now
<awilkins> It's surprisingly calming
<diddledan> eep, spiders!
 * zmoylan-pi blows on back of diddledan's neck to give the heebie jeebies...
<SuperEngineer> have the spiders gone yet?  if not, I've a few chips that
<SuperEngineer> they would taste delicious with ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> a drumstick for everyone \o/
<SuperEngineer> :D
 * zmoylan-pi is watching terrorform episode of red dwarf with taranshula setting up home in listers underwear...
<daftykins> :)
 * diddledan_ bounces
<zmoylan-pi> connection bouncing before the storm... https://twitter.com/ESBNetworks/status/664489730164326400
<daftykins> i did ESB in school ;)
<diddledan_> I did LSD
<daftykins> :O
<davmor2> I love LSD it is one of my favourite beatles tracks
<ali1234> i can't see hashtags on twitter
<daftykins> sounds ideal
<ali1234> it's like madlibs
<ali1234> i do wonder why though
<diddledan_> o_O
<diddledan_> #hashfail
<ali1234> it's one of my adblock subsriptions
<daftykins> ublock origin!
<ali1234> no
<daftykins> a finely reasoned argument as always
<diddledan_> I don't like that adblock has deals with the advertisers to not block everything
<ali1234> i do
<ali1234> i also like that adblock is now providing an alternative to mozilla on android
<webpigeon> I wouldn't even use it if i could browse a page without the content being interupted by javascript popups
<webpigeon> it's like 1995, web 2.0 style
<ali1234> daftykins: when i supply reasoned arguments i get accused of being pedantic. so i no longer bother
<daftykins> aww diddums
<ali1234> ah, a sarcastic and dismissive response *as always*
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> dismissing a dismissal is a novel one
<diddledan_> you're dismissed
<diddledan_> lol @ mansized electricity (from popey on the linux unplugged show)
<popey> :)
<diddledan_> I like the description of wimpy's roadtrip setup too
<popey> it was dead fun
 * popey casts a spell of invokation
<popey> *boom*
<popey> and he appears
<flexiondotorg> as if by magic
<popey> <diddledan_> I like the description of wimpy's roadtrip setup too
<diddledan_> \o/
<flexiondotorg> flexiondotorg is Wimpy.
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-12
 * popey turns into a pumpkin and goes to bed
<popey> nn all
<diddledan_> nn
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> good tv night;D
<mapps> the league is so funny:D
<mapps> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0420293/
<mapps> sounds ok
<mapps> hi :D
<mapps> still drawn to the apprentice, although its the same old
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning before the storm...
<mapps> morning zmoylan-pi brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning zmoylan-pi and mapps
<mapps> im off now,packing laptop
<mapps> off to Benalmadena
<mapps> ;)
<zmoylan-pi> safe trip o/
<brobostigon> grab some nice spanish ham for me, :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thursday, and happy Pizza With The Works Except Anchovies Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not a fan of pizza... it's meh
<JamesTait> All pizza?
<zmoylan-pi> i'd always prefer a nice sandwich before a pizza
<JamesTait> With the works, except anchovies? ð
<zmoylan-pi> just butter and ham. or butter and crisps, or butter and chicken, or butter and bananas. nothing fancy
<JamesTait> Bacon, brie and avocado, with mayo, on granary.
<diplo> Never tried avocado but bacon and brie on granary \o/ JamesTait  :)
<JamesTait> To be brutally honest, I'd probably eat avocado with most things. ð
<zmoylan-pi> so... 2 avocados at once? :-)
<diplo> I may have to go out and buy one at lunch to try
<mapES> Hi all:)
<mapES> Nice and sunny here:D
<mapES> 6 euros/ day for mpbile net seemed ok
<davmor2> JamesTait: now I know it, you are making this stuff up aren't you
<JamesTait> davmor2, when I announce Pay James Tait a Fiver Day, then you'll know I'm making it up. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: Oh when's that day so I can put it in my calendar to rob you....
<JamesTait> Tomorrow. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: maybe this will help you choose better days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pgPq4FGWfk
<JamesTait> davmor2, that was uncalled for. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: there are also the misheard lyrics from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no1vf854aUc  I still think she says pizza swirling through my mind, not these sounds fall :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: you be the judge :)
<davmor2> although be warned there is a danger that you will want to listen to 90's dance music all day
<davmor2> not necessarily a bad things just a warning
<JamesTait> Very little danger of that, I think. I'm currently listening to 90's rock music.
<JamesTait> Definitely pizza though.
<davmor2> JamesTait: You might like this, My morning head song this morning....Ain't no Sunshine by bill withers :)
<DJones> Don't know if anybody's noticed this, might affect any freelance IT consultants http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/12/it_contractors_raise_alarm_over_hmrc_mulling_onemonth_nudge_onto_payrolls/
<zmoylan-pi> an opportunity for ferries to offer coding cruises to allow off shoring i.t. work away from tax office scrutiny :-)
<daftykins> diddledan: https://www.dropbox.com/s/96x7rs3f9kx61kr/win10.PNG?dl=0
<mapps> hola:D
<davmor2> mapps: hello
<mapps> :D
<diddledan_> 'owdo
<daftykins> diddledan_: new build installed :O
<diddledan_> \o/
<diddledan_> which number was that?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/96x7rs3f9kx61kr/win10.PNG?dl=0
<davmor2> 42
<diddledan_> oh is that the final release update? i.e. not the same build sent to insiders a couple days ago?
<diddledan_> it's the same build number but when I updated to that number it was still listed as th2
<diddledan_> and insider build
<daftykins> yeah this ones on my laptop right now, which isn't on the insiders
<diddledan_> gotcha
<daftykins> not a fan of downloading 3GB per host per time
<diddledan_> looks like it was launched about an hour ago
<daftykins> mmm
<awilkins> At least the new builds will accept Win7 & 8 keys as activators
<awilkins> Don't have to go through all the massive ... scrotal pain ... of upgrading, formatting, and reinstalling
<awilkins> I'm putting it off and putting it off because it means reinstalling my Linux as well
<awilkins> Have added an SSD and need to repartition everything
<diddledan_> six completely random adverts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPb4EZ3s7iM&list=PLKnm0NFN_gbl6AHt5K7FWfV14H7kzgeD4&index=1
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-13
<avis> hello
<avis> i'm the owner of ubuntu company and website and want to throw all workers a party
<avis> in the uk
<avis> is it 4am there ?
<avis> just be sure that if you want to attend the party you find a federal officer that will approve your going there is your an ubuntu employee
<avis> thats it thats the bottom line your.  i'm famous for these parties.  hope you enjoy it.  i'm a Houstonian.  it'll last 2 days and probably start at 6am
<diddledan_> wtf?
<zmoylan-pi> i think ralph wiggum is all grown up now... :-)
<avis> sorry to be here again if you are a Canonical employee you are further invited to the ubuntu party.  i'm paying up now for that.  it lasts two days and will start as soon as possible.  please spread the word.  be sure and have a federal officer approve of you being there first.  thats it.  just ask one of those, and your in.
<diddledan_> wtf is a federal officer in the world of ubuntu/canonical?
<zmoylan-pi> someone with access to nerf? :-)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> Good morning.
<popey> brobostigon, did you know the channel stats page is down?
<brobostigon> popey: yes, i had to shutdown apache, it was causing the vps itself too oom frequently, after i have finished this MWA, i will look into using a different web server.
<popey> k
<brobostigon> :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Kindness Day! ð
<diddledan_> morning
<SuperMatt> happy kindness day? Maybe I should let her indoors know about this
 * diddledan_ cuddles JamesTait in a kind manner
<diddledan_> SuperMatt: I almost missed the "know about this" part of that sentence
<diddledan_> i.e. "maybe I should let her indoors"
<SuperMatt> hahaha
<SuperMatt> she's actually probably still in bed right now
<SuperMatt> bloomin' students!
 * JamesTait wonders if diddledan_ is getting a little *too* kind. ð
<diddledan_> lol @ https://plus.google.com/u/0/+DanielLlewellynJNR/posts/jWCSQDfGym7?pid=6216580955761590418&oid=111403714821787277067
<bashrc_> the long arm of the law
<davmor2> JamesTait: Man I had this ready https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFzns8Go9KI and the you go and switch it on me so I'll go for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVg2EJvvlF8
<JamesTait> davmor2, just keeping you on your toes. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: to perfectly apt songs for today though me thinks :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, +1
<JamesTait> diplo, did you get an avo?
<diplo> JamesTait: No, didn't have any in my local shop, will have to get some at my big shop this weekend
<foobarry> guys...
<foobarry> what is this gardening tool my neighbour gave me
<foobarry> https://goo.gl/photos/nR28eSfS8NbfZRv79
 * zmoylan-pi waits for the ascii art..
<foobarry> the pole is 4ft long, no handle
<foobarry> the https://goo.gl/photos/UpJcP8s6PpXVhqWy8
<foobarry> the edge is sharp
<foobarry> onone side
<foobarry> im stumped
<davmor2> foobarry: looks like a hacker for weeds to me
<foobarry> types "weed hacker" into google. gets arrestd
<foobarry> hmm. like a cavex hoe
<foobarry> no pics of spades or hoes has anything like it
<davmor2> foobarry: reminds me of one of these but not so elegant https://www.greenhousepeople.co.uk/products/1909/carbon-steel-japanese-razor-hoe-right-handed/?gclid=COio6MG2jckCFVEYGwod9iEJ7Q
<foobarry> the thing is, its on a 4-5 ft pole
<foobarry> weed hacker sounds good  and probably right
<foobarry> because if you are yanking and poking weeds around rose bush, this would be great
<mapps> holaD
<mapps> :
<foobarry> so far these words are gicving me unsafe pictures
<zmoylan-pi> it looks the wrong shape for a how as it doesn't have an angle that would allow you to use it on ground surface, it's too flat.  maybe a modern billhook for trees/hedges?
<zmoylan-pi> *for a hoe
<daftykins> crikey a day time mapps
<foobarry> http://www.woodlandcraftsupplies.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=69
<foobarry> similar-..ish
<diddledan_> crikey, a day time daftykins !
<daftykins> 8D
<diddledan_> and me too!
<zmoylan-pi> daylight... so THAT'S what that is!!
<diddledan_> all three of us!
<daftykins> a day time diddledan_!
<daftykins> i was up early to go to a job with a telco engineer pal :>
<diddledan_> \o/ money
<daftykins> heh these guys have one of those dogs that's massive at 8 months old, licking my face D:
<daftykins> mmm need to get a patch panel in to put all the network and phone onto
<diddledan_> daftykins: you gonna mount it like this? https://twitter.com/allanjude/status/664835785800048640
<daftykins> lookin' sweet ;)
<daftykins> you know that actually is a concern of mine, i've got no practical skills so i'm ok with getting all the cabling done but actually mounting it to something... not a clue :>
<diddledan_> it's certainly an interesting mounting
<davmor2> isn't that a sign of the apocalypse
<diddledan_> davmor2: daftykins mounting things?
<daftykins> he says shelf unused, but clearly it's there to catch the bits
<zmoylan-pi> mounting in laundry room... with lots of vibration nearby..
<davmor2> no the three of you online in the daytime
<diddledan_> aah
<daftykins> davmor2: it's ok, i spy no horses :)
 * diddledan_ mounts daftykins instead
 * zmoylan-pi points at cute ponies
<diddledan_> ride em cowboy!
<diddledan_> yeeehaaa
<daftykins> hey i just realised that's a netgear GS724, i've got one of those for someone :D
<daftykins> first got killed by lightning :D
 * diddledan_ digs the spurs into daftykins' belly
 * daftykins whinnies
<daftykins> i think we're scaring the children
<diddledan_> lol
<zmoylan-pi> i'm picturing baldric with a bridle from blackadder...
<diddledan_> it's good for their psychological development
<davmor2> the 4 cute pony riders of the apocalypse doesn't sound right some how
<diddledan_> unicorns!
<zmoylan-pi> whilest death riding a horse called binky is perfectly ok... :-)
<diddledan_> or fluffy
<diddledan_> I'd totally have a pet called fluffy
<daftykins> mmm sugar cubes, thanks diddledan_
<diddledan_> no probs
<daftykins> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B016B90WR4/ - seems alright
<daftykins> dialup mapp(s)!
<zmoylan-pi> when i tried irc clients on android it used to drop the signal every few minutes when it turned off the screen for powersaving
<daftykins> there's a wifi option for that
<zmoylan-pi> now when i use java irc client on nokia dumbphone, it just keeps connected. it doesn't care about power :-)
<mapp> si
<mapp> im in spain daftykins:)
<foobarry> firefox sucks. wont tell me which tab is using 100%
<daftykins> mapp: you can't trick me, you could stand in both at once!
<mapp> hahahha
<mapp> true
<daftykins> foobarry: not its' fault, per-process tabs is coming soon
<mapp> 100% im in Belamdena:)
<mapp> near malaga
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> my trip has been delayed to January
<mapp> you coming gib?:P
<daftykins> hehe, depends how hard it is to get from one side to the other
<daftykins> no doubt fly into Malaga
<mapp> so 1hr30 ish
<mapp> ;)
<mapp> im gib 4 life now:P
<mapp> got my id card gibraltar citizen
<mapp> il probably be here for 5-10 years:)
 * mapp is a traveller
<popey> Windy out there.
<mapp> not in the gypsie kind:P
<mapp> yes
<mapp> very windy recently
<mapp> but remember
<mapp> i wear shorts 350 days a year
<mapp> its never so cold:)
<zmoylan-pi> that'll upset those eating lunch...
<daftykins> other 15.25 you're in the pool?
<mapp> even when its "cold" its not
<mapp> nah im prob sleeping;)
<mapp> gotta sleep soetimes
<zmoylan-pi> today was first soup because it's cold out winter day so far...
<mapp> you know it sucks i was told our pal from Grosvenor died recently
<mapp> 32 i think:( cancer
<daftykins> :/
<daftykins> that's no age to go
<mapp> we werent friends, but i knew him you know..i went there prob 5/week
<mapp> for 8 bloody years
<mapp> had many cigarettes with him;/
<mapp> sad eh
<mapp> my friend asked if i knew him..of course i did
<mapp> im a regular at any casino:P
<daftykins> i met someone the other day bored on a Sunday afternoon saying he was in the island for work and wanted to know if there was a casino to go to :D
<mapp> still sad...32 im bloody 30
<daftykins> i had to give the bad news that the island closes up so there's nowt
<mapp> haha
<mapp> smoking will kill you kids!
<mapp> never start:)
<zmoylan-pi> you could have offered to sort him out for 50 notes and then given him an old monopoly set :-)
<mapp> 50 notes wont change anything though
<mapp> id like to come back and live near popey again :P but cant afford to!
<mapp> stuck here
<mapps> il be going to russia/ukraine once im allowed anyway:P
<mapps> land of the free
<daftykins> that's a novel name to give it ;)
<mapps> but its true
<mapps> freedom fighters
<SuperMatt> anyone able to tell me when "apt" appeared in Ubuntu?
<SuperMatt> note, I'm not referring to apt-get
<SuperMatt> was it 14.04, or some time before then?
<mapps> if you go to Moscow or even Kiev theyre all huge friends of ours:)
<mapps> people who have problems are idiot
<mapps> everytime ive been in Kiev people ask me how they can move to europe:)
<mapps> but wetern media make ukraine sound scary
<daftykins> mapps: did you get radicalised? :P
<mapps> NO
<mapps> you know im pro ukraine anyway:P
<mapps> and pro Russia
<mapps> makes it hard
<diddledan_> lol @ google survey - they want to know if I participate in water sports
<SuperMatt> lawls
<mapps> i told you
<mapps> im 50% russian :) but i still like our friends in ukraine
<diddledan_> I think that's the problem - some russians like some ukrainians too much :-p
<mapps> ukraine is basically russia, we all know it
 * daftykins neighs at diddledan_ 
<mapps> we have 2400 monument of stalin in russia, ukraine has almost double
 * diddledan_ strokes daftykins ' mane
<popey> directhex, what's the name / nickname of the linux porter guy who made a Mono based game framework?
<directhex> flibitijibibo? he forked monogame
<directhex> which was an XNA successor
<popey> thats him
<directhex> his version, FNA, is more of a 100% accurate XNA implementation w/ SDL2 back-end
<popey> Ethan..
<directhex> ethan lee
<davmor2> popey: why?
<diddledan_> fred dibnah
<diddledan_> :-p
<popey> see my next tweet to find out more!
<popey> https://twitter.com/popey/status/665164851220754432
<daftykins> if you folks had 11 wired ports around your house, would you want a Â£20 switch and 10 ports provided... or Â£65 and 19 ports provided?
<daftykins> LAN this is
<diddledan_> you could get two Â£20 units :-p
<daftykins> there is that, it'd look pretty pants though
<diddledan_> aye
<daftykins> even if it will live in a basement
<davmor2> popey: most of the steam games are sdl2 and can use a controller, so can some ot the games that were ported already and are in the store for 14.04
<diddledan_> you would need to find some method of making the extra 8 ports on the bigger unit look used for something - maybe get a few traffic generators to hang on the end of a cable for each unused port
<popey> You may have missed the bit where I said "open source" :)
<diddledan_> benefit of such approach is blinkenlights
<davmor2> popey: https://libregamewiki.org/SDL_games  pass on what works with them
<popey> oooh
<popey> ta
<davmor2> popey: isn't xplane sdl2 based...is it xplane
<mapps> ridiculous
<mapps> my dads house has gone from 1.2mil to 4,8 million..who can pay this
 * mapps cant even afford a room
<bashrc_> millionaires
<mapps> it says 2006 worth 1.8 no 4.8 million
<daftykins> lul
<davmor2> popey: flightgear maybe, although I thought there was a more arcady version
<mapps> lol
<directhex> grr focus issues
<mapps> why cant i retire
<davmor2> popey: frozen bubble there is your answer, doesn't matter what the question is frozen bubble is the answer ;)
<mapps> ;/
<diddledan_> ergh
<bashrc_> the answer to life, the universe and everything?
<diddledan_> 42
<diddledan_> as if I need to tell any of you that
<daftykins> one would hope not! ;)
<daftykins> i never did read all the novels though, despite having them all in a hardback
<diddledan_> it's one of those things that you just absorb rather than study/read
<directhex> do you want to hear why frozen bubble sucks?
<directhex> because i am happy to explain why frozen bubble sucks
<bashrc_> why does frozen bubble suck?
<zmoylan-pi> because you suck at frozen bubble? :-)
<davmor2> directhex: don't make me come over there and force feed healthy food
<davmor2> directhex: that was the best polite threat I could make ;)
 * daftykins wonders what everyone is talking about
<directhex> frozen bubble is actually unusual for a FOSS game, in that it has a coherent art direction
<davmor2> directhex: this is true
<directhex> but what it lacks is coherent level design. standard puzzle game fare (especially puzzle bobble, which frozen bubble is a rip-off of) have a carefully gradiented difficulty curve
<directhex> whereas FB difficulty spikes all over the place
<directhex> because new levels are appended, not correctly inserted in a game-beneficial order
<davmor2> directhex: yeah keeps you on your toes stop whining
<directhex> it's not "keeping you on your toes" it's just schizophrenic and inconsistent
<directhex> with re-ordered levels it'd be fine
 * zmoylan-pi awaits directhex's commentary on solitare... :-)
<diddledan_> windows solitaire has the advantage of adverts!
<directhex> and 3d acceleration!
<diddledan_> omg
<diddledan_> fully 3D cards?!
<directhex> as of vista, minesweeper and solitaire are direct3d
<diddledan_> I long for the day when we can accurately represent a three-dimensional equivalent of a two-dimensional object like cards
<zmoylan-pi> i want a deck designed by m c escher... :-)
<diddledan_> popey: omg, muskehounds!
<daftykins> aroooo
<davmor2> one for one and one for all, muskehounds are always ready...
<diddledan_> God has left the bathtub overflowing again here in Hampshire
<diddledan_> it's widdling down
<popey> bright and sunny here
<popey> had to close the blinds
 * zmoylan-pi wishes i had worn gloves when i went to shops as it was so cold outside...
<SuperMatt> it's going to be a killer winter
<awilkins> I think we're getting hail here
<zmoylan-pi> it's always a killer winter.  we've already had homeless die of cold here in ireland this winter
<awilkins> My feet certainly feel colder than yesterday
<daftykins> often i feel that way on my sofa, then flick the wireless boiler control on beside me and it says it's half a degree warmer than the night before o0
<awilkins> Who do people recommend for buying Bitcoin?
 * daftykins looks at Azelphur 
<SuperMatt> daftykins: would you like a sick bag?
<awilkins> But Azelphur gets *paid* in bitcoin
<awilkins> Why would he know where to buy them ;-)
<SuperMatt> you could buy them from him
<daftykins> SuperMatt: i... what?
<awilkins> I get the feeling he has a lot of fun spending them on fun things
<SuperMatt> you were looking at Azelphur, so I thought you'd like to take precautions
<diddledan_> meow
<SuperMatt> :D
<SuperMatt> I obviously don't know Azelphur, and cannot say if it's really a requirement, just some light-hearted joshing
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> I upset someone a while back doing that :-(
<SuperMatt> that's always a possibility
<daftykins> ah, i didn't spot the connection
<diddledan_> perhaps your contacts are tarnished? you need gold-plated ones
<diddledan_> https://news.vice.com/article/windows-31-is-still-alive-and-it-just-killed-a-french-airport
<bashrc_> heh
<daftykins> i don't wear contacts ;)
<diddledan_> I like how that reporter thinks that the RVR number determines the distance a pilot is allowed to see rather than telling the pilot the distance it's physically possible to see
<diddledan_> it suggests that if I were to tell a pilot one number and a different pilot a completely different number then they'll both see different amounts of runway
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> set them all to maximum!
<daftykins> "sorry FAA, the pilot was trying to land but switched to a thousand-yard stare at the crucial moment"
<diddledan_> https://youtu.be/anzPm_VAVW0
<awilkins> Small town decides to use Big Corp tax dodges : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QElOlY9gi5E
<diddledan_> are they doing the double irish sandwich?
<daftykins> 6 months later: Fair Tax town closes due to nobody sweeping the streets
<awilkins> I think it's more of a protest
<daftykins> yeah i got it :>
<awilkins> I don't think streetsweeping would be affected because it would be paid for by business rates
<awilkins> :-)
<daftykins> yeah, bad example - i don't know how things work :D
<daftykins> don't know how they work down here on the rock, let alone for mainlanders
<sebsebseb> hi
<daftykins> lo
<sebsebseb> daftykins: you kow what a RJII cable is yeah?
<daftykins> connector, yes
<daftykins> BT phone connector in another parlance
<sebsebseb> daftykins: ok, but it's not a standard ethernet cable is it?
<sebsebseb> yeah my Mum's got the wrong cable it does indeed seem
<daftykins> oh you wrote II, it's 11
<sebsebseb> yes RJ11 that's what I mean
<sebsebseb> RJ11 cable
<daftykins> RJ10 is the little square one that's narrow than RJ45
<sebsebseb> it seems to fit into the ethernet ports ok, but then not work
<daftykins> ah no i've got the two backwards
<sebsebseb> ethernet is cat5 I think or cat6?
<daftykins> that's the cable type
<sebsebseb> and would just say ethernet cable I guess
<daftykins> we're talking connectors :)
<daftykins> here we go, RJ10 is 4P4C, RJ11 is 6P4C
<daftykins> (position and conductor/contact)
<sebsebseb> not what a postion and conductor contact is
<daftykins> P = holes for a wire
 * sebsebseb was never that good at networking, but knew the cable was probably wrong when seeing what it was
<daftykins> C = there's one in there.
<daftykins> so the actual plastic moulding has channels for more separate wires than may be actually present, if you get me
<sebsebseb> daftykins: RJ11 cable is no ethernet cable right?  may look lilke one may fit like one, but is not, hence not working, as I expected?
<daftykins> yeah that'll typically be a modem one
<daftykins> for an xDSL line
<sebsebseb> yeah I Looked on google seems it can connect routers and
<sebsebseb> daftykins: ok guy in PC World she asked, got it wrong then, didn't know his stuff
<daftykins> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Rjxx.jpg
<daftykins> there's a nice image
<daftykins> network cable for example has 4 pairs, 8 wires, so it's an 8P8C connector
<daftykins> simples
<sebsebseb> yeah I knew there were differnet types of cables like this, she didn't quite reolise, altough I said get ethernet before
<sebsebseb> I think it explains why this one fits in the ethernet ports, even though it not being such a cable
<sebsebseb> what you put
<daftykins> *nod*
<sebsebseb> so it's for a DSL modem you said?
<sebsebseb> or probably
<daftykins> most likely
<daftykins> depends how many there are in it :>
<daftykins> the gold contacts would need counting
<sebsebseb> you mean what's actsaully in the cable  itself?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> surely most things from PC World are blister packed too o0
<sebsebseb> daftykins: what do you mean by blister packed?
<daftykins> the plastic moulded packets that are a pain to get into
<daftykins> something that'd likely have been labelled
<sebsebseb> daftykins: packaging looks ok actsually,   she woudn't have read it or even understood
<sebsebseb> I just looked again at that.
<sebsebseb> properly
<daftykins> but it may've had terms of what it is on it
<sebsebseb> daftykins: RJ11 cable  Ideal for connecting ADSL modems to ADSL microfilters
<sebsebseb> that's what it says on it
<sebsebseb> the packaging
<daftykins> yep that'll be the one :D
<sebsebseb> yep the wrong cable in this case
<daftykins> time for food, bbl
<popey> directhex, is mono 4.0 coming to ubuntu at any point?
<directhex> popey: my plan is to get 4.2 in by the end of the year
<directhex> 4.2 stable release is next week, so skip 4.0 (which is in experimental)
<sebsebseb> mono I thought was pretty much dead or un heard of now?
<popey> directhex, thanks!
<popey> brobostigon, did you see haiku got in to google code-in? https://codein.withgoogle.com/#!
<brobostigon> popey: i saw, yes, :)
<foobarry> wifey is really spoiling the afterglow of the detectorists by watching some american cheese
<diddledan_> is it mouldy?
<foobarry> it is nauseating
<foobarry> couldn't be further opposite to the whimsical understated dry comedy of d..ists
<diddledan_> d8s (following the same pattern as i18n and l10n names)
<brobostigon> waynes world is on in 4 mins on 5* , :)
<diddledan_> party time
<brobostigon> excellant
 * diddledan_ airguitars
<brobostigon> lol.
<zmoylan-pi> you're worthy...
<awilkins> The SpaceBeta patch notes are their usual holyfuckingshit list of things : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=199470
<awilkins> I like the new scenarios
<awilkins> "Distress call"
<awilkins> Hopefully one is the wedding procession being set upon by pirates
<awilkins> And you can just rock up and watch them all burn
<awilkins> Fuck, nutters are shooting up Paris
<awilkins> Pardon my language
<popey> ugh
<zleap> awilkins: i saw, rip open borders
<zleap> they will put back the armed guards and shoot anyone who tries to enter without a passport,
<zleap> or i think they would if given the choice
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-14
<sebsebseb> bbc 2  just got intterupted a little while ago with the news
<sebsebseb> was showing some rubbish thing or whatever that was anyway, wasn't really watching it
<zleap> with any luck our dopey EU MP's will now actually ACT
<sebsebseb> zleap: by doing what?
<zleap> maybe agree on how to stabalise syria
<sebsebseb> zleap: ok, but did you see the other news about syria etc?
<zleap> not sure
<zleap> but there is a plan by russia that involves some sort of transition of power in syria and elections
<zleap> so maybe we need to act and decide exactly what strategy we want
<zleap> imposing OUR idea of a leader has failed multiple times,
<zleap> sebsebseb: no idea what the answer is, but surely it involves all parties working together for a solution,  keep pouring arms in to the area is failing IS are getting hold of US anti tank weapons
<zleap> sebsebseb: anyway i am off,  lets see what is in the news tomorrow,  so far france has a state of emergency and all borders are closed
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> morning popey
<brobostigon> i noticed something interesting at the jc the other day, they seem to be using an ubuntu/canonical version of firefox on their client machines.
 * p42phone waits for a bus that's about 10m away but traffic is stationary
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-15
<mapps> hi all
<knightwise> morning mapps
<mapps> hey
<mapps> hm the acting in theplayer is kinda ba
<mapps> d
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> Morning Bro
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<mapps> hmm]
<mapps> these bluetooth earphone suck;/
<brobostigon> :(
 * zmoylan-pi sticks with wired headphones as my phone uses lead as aerial for fm radio...
<mapps> they just dont work well even when notmoving
<zmoylan-pi> i did get a sony bt hadphones set but losing the radio was too much for convenience of having no wire
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-14
<knightwise> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> hey davmor2 diplo
<davmor2> MORNING knightwise
<davmor2> oop sorry about the caps there
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Loosen Up, Lighten Up Day! ð
<knightwise> Well that woke me up davmor2 :)
<knightwise> been rediscovering the awesomeness of my chromebook this weekend
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * knightwise salutes the magnificent brobostigon 
<brobostigon> :D
<foobarry> i installed neverware on a laptop but didn't really get on with it
<foobarry> i felt too exposed
<foobarry> and uncomfortable about tying my gmail account so closely to a device
<knightwise> foobarry: I use the chromebook for my business account and the chroot for my personal stuff
<daftykins> i think it's about supermoon time in an hour
<daftykins> i strolled out last night to see how it was coming along - the patch of sky it was in was so bright it looked like a blue sky in just a single patch - http://i.imgur.com/bolYEhH.jpg
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/9QiML couple more there
<foobarry> all4 you SUCK
<daftykins> o0
<foobarry> tablet out of juice and cannot watch on computer due to spinning wheel of death on linux
<ali1234> Wat
<foobarry> channel4 sucky iplayer ripoff
<ali1234> Who here is on a train
<daftykins> so it's not really the service but that you're trying to use it from Linux as usual :>
<foobarry> wel;l it took 10 mins to login
<foobarry> then realised i need flash
<foobarry> then adblocker disabling
<foobarry> then it still doesn't work
<ali1234> Theres a guy on this train with ubuntu laptop, ubuntu tablet, and ubuntu phone and hes writing an ubuntu app with qt creator and the ubuntu sdk
<foobarry> not me
<foobarry> does he have a beard
<foobarry> and black tshirt
<ali1234> No
<foobarry> does not sound legit
<zmoylan-pi> is there a secret ubuntu handshake?
<foobarry> yes
<ali1234> Yes but i dont know it
<zmoylan-pi> that's because it's secret
<foobarry> https://ubuntunigeria.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/ubuntu_610.jpg?w=460
<zmoylan-pi> if you can manage that on a train then kudos...
<zmoylan-pi> looks like it would involve touching the floor of the train..
<ali1234> Its relatively clean i am in 1st class
<zmoylan-pi> oooooh, posh....
<foobarry> shoulder surf his github repo?
<zmoylan-pi> then call the concierge and get a formal introduction... :-P
<foobarry> check in ubuntu-phone channel?
<ali1234> Or i could packet sniff the wifi
<daftykins> i never understood why anyone bothered to pay for 1st
<daftykins> or you know, you could be a human being and introduce yourself...
<foobarry> via irc
<ali1234> You get a free cup of tea and you dont stick to the seats
<zmoylan-pi> are they wearing one of those talk to me badges handed out on the tube?
<daftykins> heh i just got a letter from the local gov warning me they're considering road resurfacing nearby... in November 2017
<foobarry> colleague is kicking the desk in time to music. tad annoying
<zmoylan-pi> well they have to chuck out the traffic cones and diversion signs 6 months before actually doing the work... :-)
<daftykins> :D it's a funny little street down here that should really just be pedestrianised same as the high street
<daftykins> which it leads onto
<popey> ali1234: where in the world is this train?
<zmoylan-pi> if they did that then people wouldn't be able to abandon their cars there when they want to go to the predestrianised area...
<popey> flexiondotorg: are you on a train right now? :)
<ali1234> Uts not flexion i know what he looks like
<popey> ok
<popey> describe them :)
<foobarry> is it creepy to ask for a hpoto
<ali1234> Lol
<zmoylan-pi> he's in first class, he can get an official engraving of the passengers for a small fee...
<ali1234> Er... Hes got brown hair?
 * daftykins facepalms
<ali1234> Looks like a developer
<foobarry> but no beard?
<foobarry> pny tail?
<zmoylan-pi> shoes or sandals? how serious a developer.... :-)
<foobarry> rms tattoo?
<ali1234> No, developer not sysadmin
<foobarry> suit?
<popey> wonder if it's a canonical person or not
<popey> we have a bunch of UK based people
<Laney> eliminate them all one by one
<foobarry> change your text notification to the ubuntu bongos and ask someone to text you
<popey> well, I suspect it's not you Laney :)
<Laney> #1: it's not me
<popey> #2: It's not me
<willcooke> My money is on chrisccoulson
<popey> (this may take a while)
<popey> ali1234: is it a monster size laptop?
<daftykins> only if speaking is disallowed
<ali1234> A bit
<popey> like, not a lightweight thing like a macbook, but a chunky big battery thing
<ali1234> Nah
<popey> oh, is it plugged in? if so, deffo chris, his battery is knackered
<foobarry> play this out loud https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qd_CX01sYg
<ali1234> No
<popey> oooh
<ali1234> Also i know what he looks like too
<ali1234> I think
<popey> This is the best game ever
<popey> "Nerd guess who"
<foobarry> glasses?
<ali1234> No
<chrisccoulson> it's not me either ;)
<popey> haha
<willcooke> boo
<foobarry> below 35?
<ali1234> Probably but i am terrible at guessing ages
<popey> facial hair?
<ali1234> No
<popey> pete woods maybe
<Laney> get a peek at the app
<ali1234> It looks like a physics sim with boxes in 2d
<popey> ooh, dan wood
<popey> community guy
<zmoylan-pi> you should use avatar software to make a model of the person instead of taking a pic... :-)
<popey> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/FyzqhiMH0oB8a76wMARxeI65vc_RAABiP-xSMb_K0S7Vw78W6d_wgQW1__yZh2iRpkHuvtYO1RQ=w2324-h1307-rw-no
<popey> him?
<ali1234> No
<popey> dammit
<popey> make/model of laptop?
<ali1234> Hp
<popey> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/U0-8Ie1cyBuOVR0A3raTraVf5Y7OnDKqBWByIWz1F0o=s630-fcrop64=1,202b2ec9dfa0d135 maybe?
<foobarry> does he look like anyone else we might know?
<ali1234> That might actually be him
 * popey asks him
<popey> he said it's not
<Laney> haha
<daftykins> * guy packs up and dives off the moving train
<Laney> people that look similar to pete woods ...
<ali1234> He actually did get up and walk down the train
<popey> did he leave his laptop?
<popey> (user name on login screen) :D
<ali1234> Yes but hes back now
<popey> bah
<ali1234> He closed it
<popey> Obviously it would be far too easy to just ask him :)
<foobarry> any stickers on the laptop?
<popey> "Hello, we're playing a game" :)
<ali1234> Ew hes signing in to outlook web app
<foobarry> corporate dude
<ali1234> Not canonical then i guess
<foobarry> maybe he's a stuedent at a uni
<foobarry> or phd
<zmoylan-pi> might be required by a workplace/college
<ali1234> Could be
<Laney> try and read the username
<Laney> I wonder when this crosses a line
<Laney> probably at trying to read text on his screen
<diplo> About 10 mins ago :D
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> it has for a while now - i'd almost rather join a US politics channel
<Laney> :D
<zmoylan-pi> when you use liquid nitrogen to freeze his ram so that you can read it? :-P
<diplo> hahah
<foobarry> is it mark shuttleworth in disguise?
<diplo> Just walk over to the guy and introduce yourself, I've had people do it to me before
<diplo> We're a nice bunch
<foobarry> hey nice phone
<Laney> could be rms though
<foobarry> which ubuntu phone model is it?
<ali1234> It might get awkward since i dont actually use ubuntu any more...
<ali1234> Dunno its in a case
<diplo> Wireshark it is then... :P
<foobarry> will arp tell you his laptop name?
<ali1234> I sunno ii only have an android tablet on me anyway
<foobarry> termux !
<zmoylan-pi> termux is quite good
<foobarry> you will have to ask at some point to satisfy curiosity of 30 geeks in irc
<zmoylan-pi> i like to think it's a good sign that a random geek on a train doesn't know every member of a small community...
<popey> Indeed
<flexiondotorg> popey, No, why?
<foobarry> how many ubuntu phones have been sold?
<daftykins> 42
<foobarry> which is joey OMG so butthurt about ubuntu phones?
 * daftykins wonders what foobarry means 
<foobarry> some twitter comments he's mae about ubuntu phone have been very snarky
<daftykins> who?
<foobarry> joey from OMGubtunutntu
<ali1234> Its kind of hard to say anything about it without sounding snarky tbh
<popey> flexiondotorg: nvm :)
<popey> foobarry: didn't know he was specifically snarky about ubuntu phone.
<foobarry> i'll find an exmaple
<popey> he is of course entitled to his opinion :)
<foobarry> https://twitter.com/omgubuntu/status/793091533805412354
<foobarry> of course. it seems personal though
<ali1234> Is he not makinng a joke about everyone saying its dead all the time?
<foobarry> not from his previous comments
<ali1234> There like a post every day on redsit saying is it dead?
<foobarry> there is a tone to any phone comments he makes that sound quite anti. prehaps he didn't get a review copy and bore a grudge. i dunno
<ali1234> Maybe it just sucks
<foobarry> the amount of youtube videos i've seen that get a battery pop up "5 mins remaining"
<ali1234> I was not impressed tbh
<foobarry> and i'm looking at the time left. are they gonna finish before shutdown?
<ali1234> Battery life seemed okay to me
<foobarry> sorry i changed track already. i was just watching a video by a kid on his laptop
<foobarry> he got the battery popup about 30secs into the vid
<ali1234> Lol
<popey> foobarry: that seems like humour to me :)
<ali1234> If the battery ran out before they finiahed they wouldnt be able to up
<ali1234> Load it
<foobarry> popey: in isolation but not in context of other offthe cuff comments he makes
<popey> Fair enough
<foobarry> i think he has a column in LXF this month
<foobarry> shame about linux voice
<foobarry> i find LXF and others so formulaic.
<ali1234> Linux voice makes me think of the scientist from simpsons
<foobarry> "you insensitive clod!"
<foobarry> it does sound a bit like an activist political wing too
<popey> it had a stupid name before voice. can't recall what it was though
<ali1234> Linux is just a terrible topic to have to make a mag about
<daftykins> of a newspaper column
<ali1234> Youre nwver going to get a scoop because everything is done in pub
<daftykins> *or
<ali1234> Iic
<ali1234> So the news swction is always going to be a month out of date
<ali1234> That leaves ... Tutorials?
<daftykins> yep badly written little guides that are outdated within say, 2 months :D
<ali1234> Depends on the topic but if, say, you can write 12 really good tutorials for a series you could just publish it as a book instead
<foobarry> the trouble with magazines is that they are often written by pseuds rather than experts
<ali1234> Still better than blogs
<foobarry> here's an article about "screen". but it goes into enough detail for a beginner and nothing else
<zmoylan-pi> great bathroom reading if the wifi is weak or the battery is knackered :-)
<ali1234> They could review commercial softqare... Lol
<ali1234> That qould go down well i am sure
<ali1234> Although that is probably exactly what linux needs
<ali1234> There ia loads of commercial software for linux that nobody knows about
<foobarry> although i like reading, i didn't have the strength to read a board game instructions and rules the other day so i wen to on youtube for someone to explain to me how to play it
<zmoylan-pi> ali1234 must have gone into a tunnel :-)
<foobarry> or bludgeoned for stalking
<foobarry> or trying to get a photo
<popey> foobarry: I do the same for things like fixing my washing machine. way easier to watch someone else take it apart than read the manual
<foobarry> the board game in question was scotland yard
<foobarry> quite fun. reminds me of the adventure game on BBC2 in the 80s
<popey> oh that one that's on humble bundle
<foobarry> yes, i have it irl too
<foobarry> i also have lord of the rings risk
<foobarry> which i have never opened.
<foobarry> my wife actually wanted to play board games for date night on saturday
<foobarry> she's more geek that me (relatively normal)
<foobarry> my colleagues don't think i'm normal cos i have hobbies
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> friend of mine from the US was so keen on board games she brought some over to the island XD
<foobarry> which ones?
<daftykins> ticket to ride
<foobarry> i saw that for a quid at the white elephant stall and didn't get it. been sad ever since
<foobarry> can't buy for full price now , since i know i missed a bargain
<daftykins> crikey: http://gizmodo.com/earthquake-leaves-cows-stranded-on-a-tiny-piece-of-gras-1788945457
<daftykins> nevermind this is the source vid: https://youtu.be/LCXv9lhlIwU
<popey> aww poor cowses
<diddledan> !cowsay moo
<foobarry> apt-get moo
<daftykins> apt moo :P
<daftykins> 'apt' just needs clean and purge and i'd forget all about apt-get
<davmor2> daftykins: it has
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> I know it got autoremove a short while ago
<diddledan> ergh dark already
<daftykins> well i don't see anything on the man page here on trusty
<diddledan> winter sucks
<daftykins> but just think how much better about doing the things indoors you feel, when it's all rainy and windy!
<diddledan> you assume I go outside
<diddledan> <-- hermit
<davmor2> diddledan, daftykins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23476261/
<diddledan> davmor2: sudo make me a sandwich
<daftykins> E: Invalid operation clean
<daftykins> davmor2: are you on xenial?
<davmor2> daftykins: no
<daftykins> what, then? because i'm on trusty and get the above
<davmor2> daftykins: it's in 16.10 and 17.04
<diddledan> zesty zits?
<daftykins> davmor2: right so it's totally moot to claim it's there when it's version specific :P
 * diddledan pops some zips
<diddledan> zits*
<daftykins> messy
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I never suffered with zits
<davmor2> daftykins: and total moot saying it isn't when you are on an older version :P
<diddledan> now now, childers
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> LTS > non-LTS
<daftykins> davmor2: you don't provide support much, do you?
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> daftykins: how often do folk turn-up with 12.10?
<diddledan> :-p
<davmor2> Yes I provide lots of support that's why your system runs at all :D
<diddledan> or 6.06:-p
<daftykins> 12.10 is EOL
<diddledan> exactly
<daftykins> davmor2: jokes on you! i don't use it
<daftykins> honestly though, you have to be specific about versions if you're gonna claim something does work
<daftykins> diddledan: bit different to start bringing up stuff that's EOL o0
<diddledan> it was in response to the providing support bit
<daftykins> mind you i know this guy who refuses to move off 10.04... i think he keeps patching stuff by hand to avoid doing what needs to be done
<diddledan> I was curio how many folk are on ancient stuff and still complaining that it isn't in their version yet
<daftykins> heh, then they add "oh and btw i keep getting these errors trying to update..."
<diddledan> "apt-get is broken" <-- read: "I'm running RHEL"
<daftykins> you say that but i did actually regularly get CentOS users coming in to try and get support
<daftykins> they'd pastebin something and show their bash prompt with the [] and i'd know XD
<daftykins> then they'd ask how as if i were somehow psychic
<diddledan> I'm psychic
<diddledan> no, wait, I'm psychotic
<davmor2> diddledan: you're telepathetic
<diddledan> ^^ +1
<daftykins> bit harsh :O
<diddledan> powershell is 10 years old?!
<davmor2> daftykins: he called himself a psycho I just said he was bad at telepathy I think diddledan is being harsh on himself ;)
<daftykins> it's looking really grey out there and i'm expecting someone to show up and take all this old hardware i've cobbled together... no sign yet! hope he hasn't forgotten...
<diddledan> well to be fair, I am actually diagnosed as a nutjob :-p
<daftykins> your mother had you tested?
<diddledan> I had myself tested
<diddledan> started-out as plain depression but evolved to a diagnosis of "depressive psychosis" :-D
<daftykins> what if you were bias reading the results!?
<davmor2> diddledan: wearing a squirrel outfit because all you clothes need washing doesn't make a nut job ;)
<diddledan> loll
<diddledan> no, that would make me a student :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: no they couldn't afford the squirrel outfit
<diddledan> although, now I need to buy me a squirrel outfit
<davmor2> hahahaha
<diddledan> thanks for the tip :-D
 * davmor2 expects to see diddledan next Halloween in a squirrel outfit or a bookcase outfit displaying various Nuts (Complete Nut Case) you're welcome if you need anymore outfit ideas just drop by ;)
<daftykins> ooh i doubt he'd wait 'til such an occasion
<daftykins> diddledan: i vote we christen you the Cadbury's Fruit & Nut fairy
<davmor2> daftykins: now I got this stuck in my head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJMAVfkI0io
<daftykins> i think that was diddledan in the caber!
<daftykins> wow i never saw that one though, at least to my memory
<diddledan> lol, yup, I'm the fruity nutjob
 * diddledan gets fruity
<daftykins> great, the guy at my local College said he had asked students to come and get this gear off me - now he's trying to suggest tomorrow
<diddledan> bah
<diddledan> that's sucky
<daftykins> ikr, try and do a favour...
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/sfbookclub/status/798113020152926209
<daftykins> ah yay the guy is gonna bring a car for 7 \o/
<zmoylan-pi> !parrotsay diddledan want a cracker
<lubotu3> zmoylan-pi: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<daftykins> yay the guy came and got everything \o/
<daftykins> at last it is done
<zmoylan-pi> now you have space for crimbo tree :-)
<daftykins> haha, still don't own one
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhP8EKqReAg
<zmoylan-pi> tis the season diddledan... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQkF7fpw-wI
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-15
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<knightwise> mornign
<SebthreeBQM10HD> knightwise, morning
<knightwise> @hey SebthreeBQM10HD
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<knightwise> hows everyone doin today
<SebthreeBQM10HD> knightwise, UOS today and tommorow
<knightwise> UOS ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> thought you may of not known what i meant
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ubuntu online summit
<knightwise> Ah cool
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Philanthropy Day! ð
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhhOmFwp7tc
<JamesTait> davmor2, nice song that one.
<davmor2> JamesTait: well initially I was thinking of Bob cause it's getting close to that time of year. But then remember the lyric giving it all away, for some reason I thought it was Rod Stewart but then it was the year I was born so I have a small excuse for not remembering it perfectly ;)
<bittin> popey or anyone else do you know what the irc channel for this years Online Summit ?
<davmor2> bittin: goto summit.ubuntu.com should be listed there
<popey> bittin: #ubuntu-uos-<trackname> and #ubuntu-uos-plenary
<bittin> popey: thank you :)
<popey> np
<foobarry> did we ever discover the identity of train ubuntu guy
<Laney> canonical's guerilla marketing
<foobarry> either that or mr robot
<davmor2> He's a gchq operative
<TwistedLucidity> I hope no one took photographs in that case
<TwistedLucidity> They get rather touchy about that sort of thing
<foobarry> awoke in the night thinking i could hear a mouse in the room
<foobarry> :S
<foobarry> awoke in the early morning to find my wife with a torch doing the same thing
<zmoylan-pi> singing or scritching?
<foobarry> chewing
<zmoylan-pi> deploy traps and wait
<foobarry> mice are wise to these things
<zmoylan-pi> i find it's about the position and orientation of the trap.  they can pick bait off traps but if you place it so they have to be on trap when doing it they get caught
<zmoylan-pi> of course now i'm in a place with a few cats wandering around so no mice
<diddledan> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/14/nhs-it-blunder-sees-system-clogged-after-email-sent-to-12-millio/
<zmoylan-pi> all the news covered that yesterday and still seems to be down today
<foobarry> "
<foobarry> The video you are trying to watch is using the HTTP Live Streaming protocol which is only supported in iOS devices"
<foobarry> http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/update/2016-11-09/armed-police-help-persecuted-christian-family-flee-their-bradford-home/
<foobarry> does anyone else get that message?
<foobarry> i'm on desktop firefox
<foobarry> ah, i don't have flash. thanks for the helpful error ITV
<zmoylan-pi> i've been seeing a few can't play this in firefox messages in last week or so
<davmor2> foobarry: yeap same thing in chromium
<popey> foobarry: ugh, that story is awful
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> response:"disappointed they had decided to leave bradford...trying to deal with it". police said credible threat to life. he'd already been severely beaten
<foobarry> http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/nes-classic-edition-console-hacked-running-ubuntu-linux/
<foobarry> helps to read the article from the bottom up.
<foobarry> "The Ubuntu operating system is based on Linux as well."
<zmoylan-pi> despite canonicals attempts to change it? :-P
<popey> not the OS in the nes, but the OS some hacker put on it
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't you be better off with a pi-cade as at least those are probably in stock?
<diddledan> can it be claimed ubuntu is based on linux when it runs on the Windows kernel now?
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> which runs on bsd...
<diddledan> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/meeting/22713/intro-and-keynote-by-gustavo-niemeyer/
<diddledan> it's UoS time
<popey> there's a few posts doing the rounds about retropie if you can't get a nes
<popey> seen two today already
<foobarry> or wait a few weeks surely
<popey> it's a bit flawed
<foobarry> Â£50 is a sweet price
<popey> very short cables
<foobarry> oh, :( i haven't read reviews
<popey> and only wired. I have a bluetooth 8bitdo SNES30 on my retropie under the telly
<foobarry> why would you have such short cables
<popey> if you had it on your desk
<foobarry> but....hdmi is tlly
<foobarry> telly
<popey> or recreate your youth by sitting cross legged, far too close to the telly
<foobarry> trying to get tapes to load
<foobarry> what was wrose were the tapes with multiple games on
<popey> Cassette 50
<popey> super happy with my retropie under the telly with the 8bitdo connector
<popey> *controller
<popey> works a treat
<foobarry> what's an 8bitdo connector?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<popey> foobarry: controller
<foobarry> need to think of ideas for chrimbo pressies
<davmor2> foobarry: scarfs unifit and look nice you can't go wrong ;)
<diddledan> davmor2: punctuation might help readability :-)
<davmor2> diddledan: meh punctuation is overrated
 * diddledan wonders what "meh punctuation" is :-p
<davmor2> foobarry: scarfs, unifit and look nice, you can't go wrong :P
<diddledan> try: scarfs: they're unifit and look nice. you can't go wrong.
<diddledan> :-p
<davmor2> assertion error on try scarfs not found
 * diddledan proudly wears the "pedantic of the day" badge.
<diddledan> maybe that should be "git of the day"?
<diddledan> <-- git
<diddledan> :-p
<SebthreeBQM10HD>  
<daftykins> ah the blank messages are back
<diddledan>  
<daftykins> diddledan: how goes it, sir?
<diddledan> good good
<diddledan> although a bit blank
<diddledan>  
<diddledan> ^^^ like that
<daftykins> that's the spirit
<diddledan> the spirit? like the holy goat?
<diddledan> or the oily one? "the father, the son, and the oily goat"
<daftykins> seen the charity stream doing 24hr 'Desert Bus' play? www.twitch.tv/desertbus
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> what is desert bus?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh diddledan your in the convergence team ?
<popey> TEAM TEAM TEAM TEAM TEAM
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoMW8VYb_GE
<daftykins> it's an old game that was on some penn and teller disc years ago, the ideas you drive a bus on this single road from Tucson, AZ to Vegas iirc - but the bus has a slight veer so you have to keep correcting it
 * SebthreeBQM10HD smacks popey around with the rest of the community team ;d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledan  I thought you were just  well some guy who hanged out here for example, but I guess that's not quite the case then ;d
<popey> copying 64GB SDHC card from one card to another takes a while, it turns out
<popey> 3 hours it seems
<SebthreeBQM10HD> sounds about right I GUESS
<daftykins> nasty
<popey> crappy little usb sd card reader to blame I think
<popey> piping the bits over wet string
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i've been truly spoilt, i was zeroing an SSD the other day that only did 75MB/sec and i thought cor, ghetto hardware
<popey> blimey, was it old or busted?
<popey> this is doing 7MB/s
<daftykins> very old, the one in a sony laptop that came out in Vista time
<daftykins> http://www.notebookcheck.net/Sony-Vaio-VGN-TT21WN-B.18109.0.html
<daftykins> great little machine at the time
<daftykins> i gave all those away to my old College last night when the guy showed up \o/
<popey> I think I only ever owned one Sony laptop. Ridiculously priced tiny netbook thing before netbooks were a thing
<foobarry> that moment when you spend ages getting soemthing working and then you get the message Ignoring gpu device (device: 1, name: Tesla C2070, pci bus id: 0000:0d:00.0) with Cuda compute capability 2.0. The minimum required Cuda capability is 3.0
<foobarry> and all your work was for nowt
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-VAIO-C1VE-9-12-GB-Transmeta-Crusoe-TM5600-600-MHz-128-MB-/262706459031
<popey> that thing, but not that model, the one before it
<daftykins> yeah, depends on the model - they had machines which were ultraportables before netbooks came along
<daftykins> mmm that's definitely one of the gimmicky toy ones
<foobarry> i remember that transmeta vaio
<foobarry> my CEO brought one back from china and expected various other gizmos to work on it
<popey> found it http://imgur.com/a/I569P - photo of my sony laptop and bonus cat in a box
<foobarry> the CPU was awful slow and the drivers page was in japanese
<foobarry> i remove those windows stickers on the first day
<daftykins> when i first started looking after that guys stuff he had this utterly shocking JVC thing: http://zdnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/11/28/dd83442a-76ae-11e4-b569-d4ae52e95e57/thumbnail/770x433/4231a9933de154f37a9b75c34c268e5d/jvc-mininote-i1.gif
<diddledan> rubby nipple!
<daftykins> down boy
<foobarry> i never use my inverted nipple
<diddledan> inverted?! :-o
<foobarry> yeah a dell rubbery indented one
<foobarry> recent laptop
<popey> yeah, for some reason I kept those stickers longer than you'd expect
<foobarry> keep them too long and the colour fades
<popey> but it was back in 1999, before I'd really got into Loonix
<foobarry> at a differnt rate to the colour underneath
<foobarry> ah, 1999 my first foray into linux
<daftykins> mmm i learnt that lesson once so remove them all every time now
<foobarry> but then again i cut my teeth on solaris
<foobarry> my wife took hers off and it removed the paint from the thinkpad 600E
<popey> actually i think i had two computers, this photo has two on the desk http://imgur.com/a/Uu2Fn
<popey> so I think one was windows and the other linux
<popey> both with the cases off :)
<foobarry> computers looked ugly back then
<popey> The _only_ thing that has survived since then is the keyboard
<foobarry> hey i had that monitor
<popey> and possibly the stapler
<foobarry> and the stapler?
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> not the cat?
<popey> sadly not
<popey> he got run over
<foobarry> nor the lovely curtains
<popey> rented house, not my choice :)
<foobarry> they are spare room curtains if ever i saw any
<popey> hehe
<popey> note the 3 button serial mouse on top of the crappy speaker on the right
<diddledan> and the palm pda
 * daftykins had those speakers
<popey> hehe
<daftykins> diddle dan computers
<popey> had to lunge at them when something loud came on
<daftykins> :D
<popey> those cd racks in the legs of the unit were optimistic
<diddledan> that monitor looks like my old sony one - I wonder if it was a rebranded?
<popey> ilyama were a well known brand back then
<popey> had a degaus button
<popey> *clannnngggggg*
<diddledan> yup, wibbly
<foobarry> iiyama were the best monitors around
<foobarry> zoinnnnng
<popey> yeah, it lasted a while
<popey> haha, radiation sticker on the side
<popey> Ricoh SCSI dual speed CD burner too :)
<daftykins> rawr
<daftykins> 300KB/sec of speeeeeeed
<diddledan> I wonder how much longer kids are gonna live today now they aren't staring into radiation-king monitors all day?
<popey> http://imgur.com/a/wokg6
<foobarry> they inhale wippits instead
<popey> you can see the iomega zip drive and modem in that pic :)
<daftykins> enough to be deaf from their mobile devices
<popey> oh, that whickar bin survived too
<popey> PC on the left is a PIII-400MHz and on the right was a (diddle) Dan P200
<popey> happy days
<davmor2> popey: what did you do with your zip drive?
<daftykins> :D our dan from 1996 was P120
<daftykins> *a
<diddledan> \o/
<popey> i had all my stuff cataloged
<foobarry> lol
<diddledan> we had a TINY running a P133
<popey> one for mame & roms, another for spectrum games
<diddledan> got it just after win95 landed
<popey> i used to keep an archive of old mame and sparcade releases, source and all
<popey> right from 0.01 days
<daftykins> haha Tiny liked to glue in their PATA ribbons
<popey> us robotics modem ftw
 * daftykins had a LASAT Safire
<diddledan> I remember running snotwall back in the 90s with a speedtouch "frog"
<diddledan> adsl modem thingy
<daftykins> yeah me too, guarded that mgmt.o firmware file well
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> v2.0 broke it though, never worked on that for me
<popey> blimey, speedtouch, not a word I've heard for a while
<daftykins> i used Windows ICS for a bit but ugh needing one PC on to use another online, nasty
<daftykins> our ISP puts out their child devices now, which rebranded to Technicolor
<daftykins> kinda tempted to make it a WAP only since it has good wifi hardware, 802.11ac dual stream, but they never get firmware updates so i can only imagine how many holes they have
<Seeker`> http://images.esellerpro.com/2131/I/701/4/DSLBB607QP.jpg modem \o/
<diddledan> I had one of those, too
<daftykins> ah that's the slightly newer one, that never worked with smoothwall for me
<Seeker`> That must have been back with freeserve
<diddledan> https://offog.org/notes/speedtouch-revival/speedtouch_size1600.jpg
<daftykins> technically they're transceivers though ;)
<daftykins> that's the ugly blighter!
<diddledan> I wonder if mine still works
<diddledan> daftykins: do you still have the mgmt.o? :-p
<daftykins> looks like i held a minutes silence and murderd it
<daftykins> +e
<daftykins> christel: wb
<christel> hiii :)
<christel> thank yooou
<daftykins> diddledan: wow googling it is not easy :P
<diddledan> daftykins: http://www.linux-usb.org/SpeedTouch/firmware/index.html
<diddledan> that's an extractor tho
<daftykins> hah how handy
<diddledan> aah they've got archives of newer and the original mgmt.o there too
<daftykins> funky
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/chronic/status/798599175440957440
<diddledan> I laughed hard!
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> but now i want to know how it ends...
<daftykins> i have a feeling it's just the validation label
<SebthreeBQM10HD>  
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T19o0uri3dg d'aww
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/dr4goonis/status/798636099832807424
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-16
<daftykins> http://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/15/macbook-pro-touch-bar-non-removable-ssd/ laaaawl
<daftykins> http://forums.macrumors.com/attachments/672418
<m0nkey_> Seen HP has come out with a kick ass mini PC, put in a Xeon for good measure. Puts the Mac Mini to shame.
<diddledan> wat. nvidia quadro gfx, too
<diddledan> that's a big dish: https://twitter.com/visualstudio/status/798687911667527681
<zmoylan-pi> apple really seem to have let their laptops and desktop offerings slide
<diddledan> zmoylan-1i: 1AM GMT reset?
<diddledan> (it _was_ 2AM BST, right?)
<zmoylan-1i> not just freenode, so probably my isp acting the goat
<diddledan> \o/
 * zmoylan-pi watches my favourite episode of the it crowd... moss and the german...
<diddledan> mystery monday on eevblog's youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpdJEo9r-HQ
<mapps> hello
<knightwise> hey mapps
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Have a Party With Your Bear Day! ð  ð ð ð»
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZANKFxrcKU I know this is the song you are after
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> anyone else getting resume from suspend issues on recent ubuntu kernels?
<foobarry> 100% fine on kernels prior to dirty cow
<zmoylan-pi> http://arstechnica.co.uk/security/2016/11/meet-poisontap-the-5-tool-that-ransacks-password-protected-computers/
<foobarry> drupal question: does ubuntu/centos offer the means to have drupal always running the latest core version?
<diplo> Drupal is in the repos, but I doubt you would have the most recent
<diplo> Maybe with snaps ?
<diplo> Nope, no snap either
<foobarry> no wonder sites get hacked all the time
<diplo> Well I guess it's down to the devs ? Not sure having a distribution update that would work that well ?
<diplo> Not sure
<diplo> I see it as if you want to run a site you should know how to maintain it ? If not you should get someone to host it for you if you don't
<foobarry> thats currently what i'm trying to establish
<foobarry> i have to make a case that taking responsbiilty for an existing site is a supprt burden
<diplo> I'd rather not host drupal sites, seem rather problematic by default ( well they were a couple of years ago )
<diplo> foobarry: +++++ I'm doing the same atm
<foobarry> someone is trying to give me a sitre that i reckon must be hacked
<foobarry> due to age
<foobarry> https://github.com/dionach/CMSmap << have you tried this?
<foobarry> dont want to take the site down with it
<foobarry> although i assume kids on the net have run it already
<diplo> When I looked it up I looked at the vulnerabilities for that version etc
<diddledan> new syfy series starts soon - called incorporated.
<diddledan> https://www.facebook.com/IncorporatedSyfy
<foobarry> Croydon crash tram that claimed seven lives hit bend at 43.5mph in a 12.5mph limit
<foobarry> oof
<diplo> Just when I'm about to stop Sky diddledan :/
<foobarry> my jar of olives has a QR code :S
<diddledan> foobarry: I'll bet it's boring
<diddledan> probably an internal tracking thing
<foobarry> www.cypresso.co.uk
<foobarry> i complained to amazon about my delivery that didn't arrive on time
<foobarry> they did bugger all except boiler plate response
<diplo> +1 for getting a response :D
<foobarry> i thought prime customers would get something
<foobarry> wasted a day waiting in. couldn't even take a shower
<foobarry> cos i knew they would come. but they didn't
<diplo> That's why I get _everything_ delivered to work
<foobarry> even a piano?
<diplo> Honestly, I'd probably still get it delivered here :P
<diplo> Get excuses of can't find your house or knocked but noone in, this place always has people here
<foobarry> the courier said they didn't know why it wasn't delivered  (or attempted)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<diddledan> https://www.linuxfoundation.org/announcements/microsoft-fortifies-commitment-to-open-source-becomes-linux-foundation-platinum
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: Hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, hi
<diddledan> some crazy iphone shenanigans: http://ramtin-amin.fr/#nvmepcie
<daftykins> hmm, impressive reverse engineering work, but so utterly pointless
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-17
<daftykins> diddledan: fishy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFS1jXOv0fE
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> g'day
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> all cool up in this hizzle?
<davmor2> Morning all
<diddledan> morning, davmor2
<davmor2> Morning diddledan
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Use Less Stuff Day! ð
 * diddledan uses more stuff
<JamesTait> Today is a very busy day. They should consider spreading these celebrations more evenly across the year.
<davmor2> JamesTait: this uses all the same letters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1WQCZe0B-A
<davmor2> JamesTait: personally I think you added the space and it is actually happy useless stuff day
<JamesTait> Home-made Bread Day; Social Enterprise Day; Take a Hike Day; World Prematurity Day; Beaujolais Nouveau Day; Unfriend Day and Petroleum Day all on the same day as Use Less Stuff Day.
<davmor2> JamesTait: prematurity day I think would suit this channel to a tea I don't think any of us want to be mature all those responsibilities and stuff
<JamesTait> davmor2, responsi-whatnow?
<davmor2> JamesTait: paying bills behaving in meetings and stuff ;)
<diddledan> speaking of which. I'm just settling-down to do paperwork and stuff
<davmor2> diddledan: see now tell me you wouldn't rather be on a swing or something
<diddledan> omg, a swing?!
<diddledan> now you're talking!!
<diddledan> care-free
<davmor2> :)
<diddledan> I miss being a kid
<diddledan> :'(
<davmor2> When I'm Primeminister I'll pass a law that means all office chairs should be swings or ufo roundabouts (I'd say slides but that is saved for the fire escapes)
<diddledan> wha? https://www.grahamcluley.com/holding-enter-key-smash-linuxs-defenses/
<diddledan> seems a bit of claiming the sky is falling because an acorn fell on his head
<diddledan> the whole point of LUKS is for situations where the disk is accessible to an adversary. the encryption is to prevent reading the data which it succeeds in this case
<diddledan> the "bug" he talks about there isn't bypassing the encryption in any way, shape, or form.
<diddledan> http://raspi.tv/2016/new-raspberry-pi-2b-1-2-with-pi3-bcm2837-processor
<diddledan> the pi2 has the same cpu as the pi3 now
<diddledan> so it's effectively pi-nowifi and pi3(wifi)
<diddledan> also, cheap androids are chinese spybots? http://www.kryptowire.com/adups_security_analysis.html
<foobarry> ok... how do i do whether my system supports NFS 4.2
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Once someone has physical access, all bets are off
<zmoylan-pi> so we need hardware switches to cut off microphone, camera, wifi, network and usb ports and some way to lock those switches
<foobarry> apple just remove them
 * zmoylan-pi goes looking for a modern system with a serial port... :-)
<foobarry> but they got removed after becoming obsolete, and many had serial+usb at the same time
<foobarry> and parallel
<zmoylan-pi> the amount of time i used to spend syncing data off old systems via serial and parallel when everything else had failed...
<popey> Laplink!
<zmoylan-pi> i still have ll3.exe here... just in case... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> installing it over serial via mode command
<zmoylan-pi> i think it came free with a laptop my company bought in the 80s... with the serial version of the cable
<zmoylan-pi> an epson laptop...
<diddledan> wow, laplink is a name I've not heard in years
<diddledan> did anyone, ever, use the windows "my briefcase" thingy?
<BigRedS> I tried to use that once
<diddledan> wiki says "The Windows Briefcase was introduced in Windows 95[1] and was deprecated (although not removed) in Windows 8 and completely removed from Windows 10." ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briefcase_(Microsoft_Windows)
<BigRedS> my first IT job was Windowsy and I thought I'd try to use it all properly. I think it worked, but didn't really add enough to make me stop just using removable drives like I always had
<zmoylan-pi> replaced with the nsa rolling luggage... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> i tried briefcase when it came out... then i remembered that i kept a copy of every backup and restore program released by ms as they were all incompatible and i needed them all to recover backups people had as it sucked so much
<diddledan> it's got all wet and widdly outside
<zmoylan-pi> windy with rain, sleet and snow showers outside atm
<diddledan> basically all the weather
<zmoylan-pi> and intermittent sunny spells
<diddledan> we are suffering with "all the weather" right now
<diddledan> as in _all_ of it
<zmoylan-pi> tis the irish 13 month rainy season outside
<foobarry> i didn't understand what briefcase was. dropbox on a floppy?
<BigRedS> yeah, it synced a directory on-disk with one on a removable drive
<foobarry> sounds terrifying
<zmoylan-pi> i don't know anyone who use it for long
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38012930?ocid=socialflow_twitter
<zmoylan-pi> terrible ping times so gamers won't be happy... :-)
<diddledan> virginmedia have a gamer-specific tier of service now
<diddledan> ref: http://www.virginmedia.com/shop/broadband/vivid-gamer.html
<zmoylan-pi> probably worth it for people who spend a _lot_ of money on gaming
<diddledan> "VIVID 200 Gamer comes with totally unlimited broadband and absolutely no traffic management."
<zmoylan-pi> more collisions then than carmageddon? :-P
<diplo> trying to log into steam via the browser, can anyone else check if any issues ?
<diplo> bah ffs, started working now
<diplo> hah, successfully login and then i get a apache error :D
<diplo> Think they're having issues
<foobarry> is rkhunter still worth trying or are they all ancient?
<diddledan> phoo, I'm impressed with the thoroughness of my accountancy-service-provider's verification checks for recovering lost 2fa access
<diddledan> I needed to find several bank transactions, previous tax records and all sorts
<popey> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Merry-Brexmas-Christmas-Sweater-Top-Jumper-Sweatshirt-Xmas-Ugly-Brexit-UK-Funny-/252572256689?var=&hash=item3ace7ac9b1%E2%93%82mwfGeMO7G5Evt0XuhwdzNvQ
<brobostigon> i saw a better t'shirt the other day, it had a picture of patrick stewert transcribed on it, jean-luc picard for PM, :)
<foobarry> my wife has one "make it sew". cross stitched patrick stewart
<foobarry> http://fashionablygeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/picard-make-it-sew.jpg
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> make it snow!
<zmoylan-pi> cold enough for it outside, but ground is wet and covered with leaves so unlikely to stick
<daftykins> https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/5dedwy/evga_1070_ftw_catching_fire_live_on_stream/
<daftykins> wow, EVGA decided they'd save a few cents/pennies per graphics card and *not* fit thermal pads between the PWM chips and the cooler, some are overheating and or "doing a samsung"
<zmoylan-pi> stand back, he's downloading a jpg!!
<diddledan> eeep
<popey> do you actually see fire?
<popey> I just saw the stream cut
<daftykins> there's a little flash from down there
<popey> ahh
<popey> missed that
<popey> oh, haha, yeah
<zmoylan-pi> that's what happens when you let the beancounters save a few pennies
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> they released a modified BIOS that ramps the PWM fan curve up +400RPM, and offered card swaps or to send out kits for self install of the thermal pads
<daftykins> thankfully mine was not one of those 8D
<zmoylan-pi> dodged a fireball there...
<daftykins> eh not really, if i'd seen the stories in time it would've been a quick fix / RMA
<zmoylan-pi> ut you'd lose time with down system, on hold listening to muzak with phone system telling you how important your call is organising the return
<daftykins> i remember phones
<daftykins> but nah it's only in gaming it'll push the PWM
<zmoylan-pi> it's when you see someone using a public phone box... you want to report suspicious activity...
<daftykins> i see Portsmouth found another war time bomb in the harbour
<daftykins> held up the ferry to the islands!
<daftykins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-37997259
<zmoylan-pi> they occasionly find grenades dating back to wwi around ireland. they never know wether to send the bomb squad or the archeology department
<daftykins> wasn't that long ago one was found right in the mouth of our harbour
<daftykins> all those crossing over it had never known :>
<zmoylan-pi> how deep is the harbour... how close is the hull of a ferry passing over... might not do enough damage to sink a ferry
<daftykins> not a clue!
<zmoylan-pi> the water acts as a cushion so very few weapons succeed with a non contact detonation iirc
<zmoylan-pi> and there is still that munitions ship that would make a few seismographs twitch if it ever goes up off the uks south coast
<awilkins> Can you do WOL through a SOCKS proxy?
<awilkins> I have the remote tunnel / DDNS set up for my mum's router... bah
<awilkins> Just realised, no SSH, no socks proxy
<awilkins> Don't think her router has a WOL client or is sophisticated enough to do port-knocking
<awilkins> Just a stock Huwaei
<awilkins> Talk-Talk issue
<awilkins> I suppose you can send a magic packet through any UDP port?
<awilkins> If I opened a high port and configured it to NAT to broadcast...
<daftykins> no WOL is at broadcast i think
<daftykins> what's the *actual* think you're trying to do?
<awilkins> Wake up mum's desktop over the internet
<awilkins> Sling a magic packet at her router's WAN address and have it turn on her PC
<awilkins> So I can do maintenance on it without getting her to go switch it on
<awilkins> Can you configure NAT to broadcast?
<daftykins> think i'd just ask 'em to wiggle the mouse... :D
<awilkins> http://wakeonlan.me/
<awilkins> Seems like you can
<awilkins> Not sure her PC is configured to do it  but I can find that out next time I ssh it
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> can be rare
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-18
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MoBeats> morning
<brobostigon> morning MoBeats
<knightwise> Heya Geekz
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy GIS Day! ð  ð ð°
<foobarry> daughter was coughing all night. had me up since 4. want my bed
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVuuatjHGnY got you covered
<awilkins> Is there a way to get the duplicity command that Deja-Dup will use without running it?
<awilkins> Scenario: supporting mom's PC remotely. Need to run a backup, can't run Deja-Dup over X tunnel because it needs dbus as well
<davmor2> JamesTait: that one do you I'm obviously assuming her baby didn't have location turned on ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, it's buzzing around my head now, so I think that's a yes. ð
<davmor2> awilkins: is your mom on an ubuntu system?
<davmor2> awilkins: if so then deja-dup will backup on a schedule to a remote location you would just need to setup the remote location to mount on boot and done
<awilkins> davmor2, It needs you to log into an X session for it to work
<awilkins> Her X is broke
<awilkins> So I'm doing a backup before I upgrade her to 16.10 and hope it fixes things
<awilkins> She's 250 miles away so it's a bit of a trek to provide maternal tech support in person :-)
<davmor2> awilkins: deja-dup I thought could be run from cli too
<davmor2> awilkins: http://askubuntu.com/questions/636264/how-to-make-a-backup-with-deja-dup-from-command-line
<awilkins> You can start it from the command line but it still raises a GUI and wants dbus as well
<awilkins> I fixed the GUI thing by tunneling X back here, but if I tunnel dbus it's just going to read my config instead of hers
<awilkins> Can you start dbus without X?
<Laney> dbus-run-session cmd
<awilkins> ta
<awilkins> Failed to execute child process `duplicity`
<awilkins> Would it hurt if the default backup system GUI depended on it's dependencies...
<awilkins> No wonder her backup hasn't run in months...
<awilkins> And python-gi ... *sigh*
<awilkins> Remember this when I upgraded before... I guess there must be some flag that says "I've installed the deps!" in dega-dup
<awilkins> Which persists in your home folder if you trash the OS and install again (with home on a separate partition like a sensible person...)
<awilkins> At last, backup is cooking
<awilkins> Huzzah
<davmor2> awilkins: huzzah
<foobarry> what does it mean when slack offers to import github girst image links?
<foobarry> gist*
<foobarry> s/image//
<foobarry> try again: what does it mean when slack offers to import github gist links when you've pasted a url to a gist?
<foobarry> i guess it would display in the channel?
<diddledan> foobarry: I believe it shows in an embedded iframe
<daftykins> http://gizmodo.com/apple-will-fix-touch-disease-on-your-iphone-for-just-1-1789113957
<daftykins> lawsuit eventually resulted in a response there for the evil devices
<daftykins> http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/graphic-card-issue-new-2016-15-bto.2015343/
<daftykins> new macbooks are faulty already
<daftykins> might just be drivers though, time'll tell
<diddledan> the touchbar broke?
<diddledan> oh gf
<diddledan> gfx
<daftykins> one site reviewer had one DOA too
<daftykins> makes you wonder how many are like that of any other product line, since obviously it's just the vocal minority thus far
<diddledan> interesting, pfsense and partner netgate have a new firewall hardware due based on an arm cpu: https://shop.amicatech.co.uk/shop/hardware/sg-1000-microfirewall/
<daftykins> mmm ham and cheese panino, just what the doc ordered on a grey day
<daftykins> diddledan: ouch at that cost
<diddledan> daftykins: they do more expensive options :-p
<daftykins> the multi core AMD x86 i got from linitx was about the same price with 3 interfaces and multiple mini PCIe slots for wifi and other cards
<daftykins> which they finally have switched on down in Spain \o/
<diddledan> one of these? https://linitx.com/product/linitx-apu-2c-3nicusbrtc-pfsense-embed-firewall-kit-black/14130
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-uh1VPYEbE <-- about porn blocking
<diddledan> it is, however unfortunately, safe to view at work or near the wife
<daftykins> yep it was that device
<diddledan> looks to be an amd jaguar embedded cpu
<diddledan> https://pcengines.ch/apu2.htm
<daftykins> yarr
<diddledan> has aes-ni which is good for vpns
<daftykins> i'm still waiting for the Spanish ISP to enable a port forward on the antenna, so i can remote into it
<daftykins> it being that router box
<diddledan> oh, it's a wireless network?
<diddledan> all bets are off then :-p
<daftykins> the ISP we chose yeah, because most places in his area don't even have phone lines
<diddledan> dang. must be the middle of nowhereistan
<daftykins> wow my memory has been shocking of late, totally forgotten the intel wireless tech that tried and failed to compete with 3G...
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> south coast of Spain, so all the infrastructure is akin to third worlds
<diddledan> I think spain is pretty third-world everywhere
<daftykins> WiMAX, that's the one
<diddledan> aah yes
<daftykins> so there's a big tower on the hill above his apartments area and he gets 20Mb down, 6Mb up on a funky seasonal rate for being a holiday-home type
<diddledan> that's not bad speed for a wireless innernet
<daftykins> it's kinda funny because the little pfsense box has managed to update the dynamic DNS hostname to the correct internet facing IP, but it seems the IP is held by the PoE dish on his wall - so you're still firewalled
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> reverse tunnel :-p
<diddledan> get the box to vpn or ssh to you
<daftykins> but yeah just waiting for the guy to forward the port for the VPN setup i have on there all ready to go and i'll be sorted
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> box itself is already connected to my VPS in London, so once i can get in i can pick devices on the LAN that need to be British, then they'll have their traffic tunneled :D
<diddledan> you gonna shove everything down the vpn so he gets a british geolocation?
<daftykins> you guessed it! not everything though
<daftykins> wonder if amazon have started to block VPS providers, netflix have of course
<daftykins> hrmm Saturday is 'international games day'
<davmor2> I wonder if with the new ip laws we can basically bring down all the isp's by all setting up spiders :D
<davmor2> also everyone brace for isp price hike to pay for all that storage that will be required by law
<diddledan> davmor2: I'm with a&a who have as a contract agreement that they cannot implement any king of monitoring like the IP thing requires without at least 1 year of written notice
<diddledan> kind*
<davmor2> diddledan: expect a letter anytime soon then ;)
<diddledan> as in they must give me 1 year of notice before they're able to monitor my browsing habbits
<daftykins> another sad example of democracy that that one is making it through, assuming the Queen ok's it
<daftykins> glad it's not going to apply to me...
<diddledan> daftykins: need a lodger?
<daftykins> haha suuuure, but you have to get behind the queue of US folks wanting to escape here ;)
<davmor2> daftykins: no gchq already has yours right :D
 * diddledan starts using Tor
<daftykins> i thought that has been widely regarded as unsafe anyway
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure the malware gchq can now use on your intel mangement engine renders that moot
<diddledan> I wonder how it impacts people renting a VPS to act as VPN endpoint
<daftykins> ME is only in business systems actually, chief
<zmoylan-pi> you think gchq doesn't make money? :-)
<daftykins> diddledan: hrmm suppose technically providers of VPS' may count as ISPs in a form
<davmor2> diddledan: no use they are allowed to have anything unencrypted right :)
<diddledan> wat http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/11/18/JS114056176_Theresa_May_Merkel-large_trans++Q7WNz19EjnCWyGlhqb7K13uxKb_1pKS244PZc2vSMHU.jpg
<daftykins> perhaps it was an inuit greeting?
<diddledan> I think it's "no, I love you more.."
<zmoylan-pi> each finds the other's countries worries a great distraction for their own citizens
<daftykins> anyone kicking some money to Mozilla now there's another fundraiser on? :)
<diddledan> they're funkraising?
<daftykins> https://donate.mozilla.org/
<daftykins> 'tis on my startpage
<diddledan> I should probably install firefox
<zmoylan-pi> i still use it as main browser on my systems with more than 1gb of ram...
<daftykins> it's always my main one :>
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, ping
<daftykins> http://www.library.gg/events/event/international-games-day o0
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/Mattrudge/status/799617833147645952
<daftykins> yeah, the 'edited' status does suggest a mistake
<zmoylan-pi> then again as someone who has worked in i.t. i have had people ring me up and i have simply read out loud to them the email i sent them before they called me as my answer
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> how do folks in the office combat colleagues ignoring their emails content? like the old classic of reading 1 of 3 things when all 3 need a reply
<zmoylan-pi> at one point i got a pack of darts, printed off the emails and did a 'message for you' to wall beside their head...
<daftykins> such tree murder!
<zmoylan-pi> wasn't much fun for the walls either
<daftykins> indeedy
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: with LARTs
<daftykins> you're awfully fond of those :)
<daftykins> i think that's been the last 4 things you've said to me, MartijnVdS :D
<MartijnVdS> ð
<zmoylan-pi> i think my personal best was leaving a birthday card on someones desk and a nice little multitool pressie stabbed through it into the desk quite deep... :-P
<daftykins> i discovered ignoring a client asking a silly question doesn't result in them figuring it out, this week :<
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, trying to ignore stupid people doesn't work when they are too stupid to realise they're been ignored...
<daftykins> you've got to love the query...
<zmoylan-pi> no, you really don't :-)
<daftykins> first one: a forwarded email "renew your $software" - should i renew this!?
<daftykins> second one: "i can't work out how to reduce the number of licenses!"
<awilkins> daftykins, I took to putting an "executive summary" at the top of emails
<awilkins> Not sure it actually did any good
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i did find i was being unnecessarily wordy in the beginning
<awilkins> Currently I is mostly hating... server-side validation using nodejs libs
<diddledan> awilkins: fun
<diddledan> nodejs is always interesting
<diddledan> haha: https://twitter.com/luke_dot_js/status/799271787133403136
<diddledan> nice startrek style dress: https://twitter.com/heruniverse/status/799737785762488320
<daftykins> bit racey
<zmoylan-pi> and not a red shirt... so they won't die on first away mission...
<diddledan> it's engineering yellow, so she's an intellectual
<zmoylan-pi> they don't die till the enterprise is under attack
<diddledan> probably death by warp core breach
<zmoylan-pi> on a first date
<diddledan> or maybe hull rupture
<zmoylan-pi> hull breech is defintely third date
<zmoylan-pi> or maybe their samsung console going all explody in their face...
<awilkins> She's not gonna be happy if you order her into a Jefferies Tube full of radiation though
<daftykins> but that's the best kind!
<daftykins> heh seems like amazon prime video is still down
<diddledan> daftykins: probably due to the load of people trying to watch the grand tour?
<daftykins> yeah, but then it was down yesterday too
<daftykins> but i suppose that was all the discount rate signups too :>
<diddledan> which then begs the question, if amazon can't handle the load of a single service that they run for themselves, how do companies expect them to handle the load of hundreds of other services via AWS too?!
<diddledan> wtf? https://twitter.com/abc7newsbayarea/status/799717985078235137
<zmoylan-pi> someone chucked a box of daz into a fountain?
<zmoylan-pi> a bulk discount mother of all boxes box
<diddledan> related: https://twitter.com/dakami/status/799751403547676672
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> his sketch is quite generous
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-19
<mapps> hola
<mapps> anyone watching berlin station
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> IP over QR codes: http://seiferteric.com/?p=356
<brobostigon> :)
<awilkins_> Is it OK to install Xenial packages in Yakety?
<awilkins_> My mum has a busted nvidia driver and in foolishness I remotely distro upgraded her hoping it would be fixed
<daftykins> holy moly, some guttering just snapped off a building opposite me in these high winds and smashed down to the lane... it's a piece about 8 feet long
<penguin42> ouch - oh I read something about a storm hitting the south
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> that'll be the one
<daftykins> i just warned off a young lady from the hotel beside me from having a smoke break in the lane, since the rest of said gutter looks like it's going to join the floor
<daftykins> i had to pick up the other bits and put them behind a door, don't want the drunks messing about with them
<daftykins> http://en.sat24.com/en/eu/infraPolair
 * penguin42 thinks he might be in that clear bit in the middle
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-20
<daftykins> welp i shall call it a night whilst the slates are falling to the groung from the place opposite
<daftykins> *ground
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> 0/
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> heys
<brobostigon> hey MartijnVdS
<SuperEngineer> This might just be the right place to ask: anyone know of a better than AndChat IRC client for android?
<ali1234> SuperEngineer: i use androirc
<SuperEngineer> I just spent ten minutes looking for the method of cancelling the Amazon Prime free trial.
<SuperEngineer> Only clicked on it to see if 1 day delivery worked [& it didn't].
<SuperEngineer> I don't want ya Amazon Prime... & I don't like your hidden t's & c's.
<SuperEngineer> Fortunately cancelled within the hidden *14* days [not 30 days] allowed without charge.
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: have you tried andchat?  If so, how does it compare?
<ali1234> i havenot
<SuperEngineer> hokey dokey, I'll have a peek at it and see.  ....& thanks
 * brobostigon uses connectbot
 * SuperEngineer takes a peep at that as well
<SuperEngineer> [though doesn't like things with "bot" ion their name ;-)
<brobostigon> its an ssh client, :)
<SuperEngineer> ahhhhhhhhhhh!
<brobostigon> irc client once, irc everywhere, :)
<brobostigon> byobu + irssi + bitlbee.
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/ComicBookGrrl/status/800390198043561984
<diddledan> use the force!
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-13
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> howdy all
<SuperMatt> yo
<SuperMatt> Bored now. I wonder if I can get put on garden leave
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: chance would be a fine thing eh!
<SuperMatt> I completed all of the important work on Friday. The rest is just fiddling around the edges
<MooDoo> yeah been there done that before....i ended up not doing a lot for a month
<SuperMatt> I've got a month and a half to kill!
<MooDoo> ouch
<SuperMatt> There's a few reasons why it's quite a long notice period, but suffice to say, it should have been 3 months!
<MooDoo> you a manager?
<SuperMatt> NO!
<MooDoo> wow only asking :p
<SuperMatt> It's a bit of an attempt by upper management to stop people from leaving, but my manager thinks it's too long
<MooDoo> yeah it is, i'd end up playing doom for a month and half lol
<SuperMatt> Already completed doom, and my work machine is a mac
<SuperMatt> I could work on some personal projects
<SuperMatt> But I don't have any in mind
<MooDoo> I'm thiking of a macbook pro
<andylockran> morning peep
<andylockran> morning peeps
<awilkins> Is there an official route being pursued to replace the HUD menu from Unity in GNOME 3?
<awilkins> My workplace has obligingly said that if we want to use Linux we can, but are pushing towards a RedHat derivative (hopefully Fedora), so I've been test driving Fedora 27 on my personal gear. PixelSaver gets me over my initial aversion to the hideous waste of screen space on GNOME shell (I dunno if it's especially a HiDPI thing), Dash to Dock cures the "push the cursor against the left edge" itch that Unity has given me.
<awilkins> And obvs I can reconfigure the button positions.. but I'll really miss the HUD menu in applications like GIMP where I only use a couple of menu commands (and thus displaying the menu is a waste of sapce) and thanks to HUD have never bothered to learn where they are in the menus.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Is the force to use a Redhat derivative just for support issues their side awilkins - but good progress in getting them to allow you, I've never had to ask luckily
<awilkins> It's because RHEL is our "official" server platform
<awilkins> So they have a bunch of scripts and things for hardening RHEL.
<diplo> Ah right, hardening... hahah
<awilkins> Now, I think diversity is good, what RHEL is vulnerable to Ubuntu may not be, your server is less likely to catch things from your workstation if they're not the same.
<awilkins> Plus I hate GNOME shell :-)
<awilkins> And I'm very used to Ubuntu
<diplo> I use ubuntu on servers I run at work, and run centos in lxc containers and run Solus on my work machine
<awilkins> So far I've managed to get a Fedora instance from "throw laptop out of window" to "I'll use this if I must" which is progress.
<awilkins> PixelSaver + Dash to Dock get you most of that progress.
<awilkins> I think that some of the suggestions for improving GNOME shell like "write your own chrome CSS to slim down the incredibly fat title bars" are redonkulous though.
<awilkins> I have to say I don't really like the direction that the GNOME devs are taking and I think that losing Unity is a real shame.
<diplo> Me either, which is why I'm trying Solus :)
<diplo> Like Budgie, didn't want Gnome2 esque and had some other issues with Mate
<awilkins> Would be very happy to stick with 16.04 until 2021 TBH
<SuperMatt> Personally I love Gnome Shell, and think it was the right decision for Ubuntu to run with it
<awilkins> May I ask, did you love it out of the box, or did you customize it a lot?
<SuperMatt> I have a couple of customisations - namely changing alt+tab back to what it ought to be, but otherwise I find gnome shell - and the ubuntu version - to be very good at behaving the way I expect - which is to stay out of my way.
<awilkins> There are still a few things I suspect will continue to irk me ; like the workspace layout being a tall stack rather than being able to use a 2d grid
<SuperMatt> You mean it's not a tiling windo manager?
<awilkins> No, the virtual desktops ; I've used a 2x2 desktop set for over a decade and have places I keep things ; like "comms" email, chat, etc, goes on my top-right desktop
<diplo> Are you running 17.10 SuperMatt ?
<SuperMatt> diplo: yup
<diplo> So that is quite customised compared to say Fedora
<awilkins> GNOME shell has no top-right desktop because it's multiple desktops are a tall stack
<SuperMatt> awilkins: I see what you mean, but I wouldn't be surprised if that can be modded in
<diplo> I've still never got into running virtual desktops, I always forget I have stuff open on them :)
<SuperMatt> diplo: yes it is slightly, but not to the nth degree
<awilkins> One thing I always want to do is have a wallpaper that has areas to put files for workflow... but that's just writing an SVG or whatever
<awilkins> That was a total segue
<awilkins> AFAICT the main customization in 17.10 is that forked version of Dash to Dock
<SuperMatt> yup
<awilkins> Which as I said, makes GNOME shell for a Unity user much more tolerable (I must push the cursor against the left margin about 10 times an hour)
<awilkins> I think if GNOME shell could get a 2d workspace grid and the HUD menu I'd be entirely happy switching to it (notwithstanding some horrible crashes I've run into when doing things like fullscreening VLC while an overlay indicator is showing)
<SuperMatt> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/484/workspace-grid/
<awilkins> (I'm presuming those things are down to the newness of the combo of Wayland + whatever compositor GNOME shell uses on Fedora)
<NET||abuse> hey guys, i'm stuck trying to scp a backup from 2 machines that can't directly talk, some vlan issues, from a 3rd party box.
<NET||abuse> so first problem is the source box with the backup file, is behind a jumphost, the destination box is not.
<NET||abuse> and so i am on an intermediary host that can hit the destination box and the jumphost box, the destinatino box CANNOT hit the jump box
<NET||abuse> so i am trying to do scp -o 'ProxyJump jump.box.addr'  sourcebox:/path/to/file.tar.gz destination.box:/path/to/newfilt.tar.gz
<NET||abuse> but ofcourse, ProxyJump tried to proxy BOTH boxes.
<NET||abuse> it may also be required for me to use the -3 command to get it to stream the file between hsots.
<NET||abuse> anyone know a way around this?
<penguin42> NET||abuse: You should be able to set things like ProxyJump on a per host basis in your ssh config
<penguin42> NET||abuse: something like   in  .ssh/config
<penguin42>    Host sourcebox
<penguin42>        ProxyJump jump.box.add
<penguin42> NET||abuse: Oh and note that while -3 is good it's error reporting stinks, if it fails it'll just shrug
<daftykins> is storage space an issue for just doing it twice...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-14
<MooDoo> howdy all
<SuperMatt> sup?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: how are you matey?
<SuperMatt> SO BORED
<MooDoo> i bet, never mind only 1.5 months to go
<SuperMatt> also, angry at the tories
<MooDoo> what's new there
<SuperMatt> I must be really bored at work because I just spent some time setting the clocks on the office microwaves
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo :)
<zmoylan-samj3> morning mammals
<SuperMatt> I keep telling you I am not a mamm... oh yes, hi, I am a mammal. Please to make your aquantance, fellow mammal
 * zmoylan-samj3 looks shifty <_< >_> ...
<zmoylan-samj3> ...yes, greetings fellow mammals...
<knightwork> hey peeps
<MooDoo> howdy knightwork
 * diddledan has knightmares about knightwork 
<diddledan> kuh-night
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> or kuh-nih-guht
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/9V7zbWNznbs?t=5
<knightwork> lol diddledan
<knightwork> at least im in your dreams
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> I won't mention the "other" dreams ;-p
<zmoylan-pixi> not till after 9pm when the word banana is allowed in channel... damn!
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFukyIIM1XI
<diddledan> alternatively: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeRDHjD7wUg
<foobarry> who wants a job thats more fun than their own
<foobarry> get to compile open source apps and make awesome science happen
<foobarry> and help cure cancer and find planets https://webapps2.is.qmul.ac.uk/jobs/job.action?jobID=2859
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-15
<MooDoo> howdy all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<lornajane> good morning
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning
<SuperMatt> morning all
<MooDoo> howdy howdy
<Gargoyle> o/
<foobarry> has anyone used a smartphone habits tracking app like moment or qualitytime?
<SuperMatt> What are they supposed to do?
<SuperMatt> (if it's not obvious, my answer is no)
<foobarry> tell you what apps you use and for how long, screen time per day etc
<SuperMatt> Oh, I see
<SuperMatt> I don't think I want to be told I'm an addict
<foobarry> ok found one called space. seems to have a better privacy policy and they are in the uk https://phonelifebalance.com/privacy-policy/
<foobarry> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mrigapps.andriod.breakfree.deux&hl=en&rdid=mrigapps.andriod.breakfree.deux
<foobarry> This Security Alert addresses CVE-2017-10269 and four other vulnerabilities affecting the Jolt server within Oracle Tuxedo. These vulnerabilities have a maximum CVSS score of 10.0 and may be exploited over a network without the need for a valid username and password. The Oracle Jolt client is not impacted.
<foobarry> maximum CVSS score of 10 :|
<SuperMatt> Oracle do love their CSEs
<SuperMatt> *CVEs
<TwistedLucidity> My CVEs go to 11.
<diplo> Any of you guys use OpenWRT ?
<diplo> Just tring to find a way to do portforwarding via the web admin
<TwistedLucidity> I am
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: I am, let me open the web admin gubbins.....
<diplo> ta fanx, got this Witi board thing about 2 years ago, just about to start using it :)
<diplo> I can see how to do it via the cli if it comes to it
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Services/Firewall, then the "Port Forwards" tab
<diplo> yeah don't have it
<TwistedLucidity> Ah
<TwistedLucidity> Don't have Firewall?
<diplo> I'm guessing I need to install a package... but can't find what package to install
<TwistedLucidity> What version?
<diplo> yeah installed that... which is the only package i found referenced, still didn't show up
<diplo> Unless it needs a reboot I guess
<TwistedLucidity> I'm using 15.05 Chaos Calmer; keep in mind that the advice now is to switch to LEDE.
<diplo> Not sure if my device is supported, I'll look later on the device
<TwistedLucidity> Tried installing "luci-app-firewall"?
<TwistedLucidity> That'll give you the web interface for the firewall. Well, it should do.....
<diplo> But the version i used from openwrt packages is out of trunk, so guess whatever the newest version is there.
<diplo> I'll try when I get home, can't get in atm as no port forwards :D
<TwistedLucidity> Heh
<diplo> With openwrt do you need to reboot after package installations, didn't have any prompts tbh, but that could have been me learning new stuff
<diddledan> I thought LEDE was supposed to be merging back into openwrt.. or did that fall-through again?
<diplo> No idea, will look at lede to see if there is a way of using it
<diplo> Hmm it's listed there :) so good start
<diplo> 17.0.4
<diplo> 17.0.1.4 even
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: In short - OpenWRT is a dead project. 15.05 is the final release. LEDE now has all the active development and will re-brand as OpenWRT.
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: You might be able to get away with restarting the web service; but I think I've always just rebooted
<diplo> I'll reboot tonight, also see what version I'm on and may upgrade to 17.01.4 - might as well be on latest and greatest before not otuching it again for a while :)
<TwistedLucidity> 17.01.4 is the one that has the KRACK fix in it as well IIRC
<TwistedLucidity> When we move house, I'll be upgrading. Too risky for me to try it now
<diplo> heh, I've got old Draytek there in case, but thought Krack was client side issue anyhoo ?
<TwistedLucidity> Both
<diplo> I've not followed up on krack at all, apart from seeing that Motorola aren't patching it yet
<TwistedLucidity> Nor has Google AIUI
<TwistedLucidity> Well, I don't think I've gotten an update (could be wrong)
<diddledan> weird. git apply isn't applying the changes yet it is exiting with code 0 indicating success
<diddledan> maybe it doesn't like that I edited the diff
<diddledan> reacreated the diff and it still isn't working. but ONLY in my xenial vm (snapcraft)
<Knightwise> hey peeps
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> hi
<Knightwise> Muddling around here :) running IRSSI in Brew on my mac , using my ipad pro as a secundary screen
<Knightwise> pretty cool actually :)
<Knightwise> Ubuntu in a vm on the main screen of my laptop ,
<Knightwise> irssi in a terminal on the ipad pro
<Knightwise> and osx on the main screen :)
<daftykins> each to their own ;)
<Knightwise> nice experiment , but it think 17.10 is just a little 'raw" these days
<zmoylan-pixi> irssi on a pi usually and use tmux to access it fron any device at home. but am in hospital so atomic irc client on android... i miss my pi...
<Knightwise> zmoylan-pixi: what happened to it ?
<zmoylan-pixi> well i didn't want to constantly worry about extwrnal threats so it's not accessible from outside house
<zmoylan-pixi> and the wifi ap it's connected to needs a reboot once a week so it's fallen offline
<daftykins> zmoylan-pixi: all ok with you?
<zmoylan-pixi> they amputated a toe 6 weeks ago and an now twiddling my thumbs (still have both of those) waiting to be released
<daftykins> zmoylan-pixi: ah is that a sign of larger woes, or unrelated? sounds like quirky circulation
<zmoylan-pixi> i have health issues. but this one came out of left field.
<daftykins> mm funky
<zmoylan-pixi> as i headed to a+e i thought 'chuck the netbook and charger in the bag' but no.... so been on android and dumb nokia for 6 weeks
<zmoylan-pixi> i really really miss symbian....
<daftykins> i'll post you my Psion - you can pinch alcohol swabs and clean off the gunky rubber for me ;)
 * zmoylan-pixi casts inflict piles on elop
<zmoylan-pixi> i've toyed with idea of buying a psion or even a palm os device... might still do it
<zmoylan-pixi> new psion looks shiny...
<brobostigon> new psion? umm, do you own a tardis?
<daftykins> nah there's some new project
<zmoylan-pixi> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/27/the_psions_is_back_meet_gemini/
<brobostigon> first time i have heard about that one.
<brobostigon> 9 months ago, ok.
<zmoylan-pixi> there's later story of them showing current breadboard prototype to journalists. soynded good
<zmoylan-pixi> i'd rathee they took time and do it right than rush out junk
<zmoylan-pixi> psions were rolls royce of pda market
<zmoylan-pixi> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/11/gemini_psion_alike_pre_production_prototype_handson/
<diplo> Don't ask... but I need to enable sshv1 on a server on an internal network
<diplo> Created keys, allowed Protocol 2,1
<diplo> Anything else to why it may not work ?
<diplo> SELinux is disabled, firewall is off
<diplo> [root@localhost ssh]# ssh -1 localhost
<diplo> Protocol major versions differ: 1 vs. 2
<daftykins> diplo: sorted it? config pointing to the v1 keys? daemon restarted?
<diplo> daftykins
<diplo> daftykins: Nope, sorry.. screen locked up :) the sshd_config is pointing at /etc/ssh/ssh_hosts_key
<diplo> If that's what you mean, restarteddaemon, even rebooted now
<diplo> Last thing I need to sort till I can sign off, been working 13 hours
<daftykins> D:
<diplo> Any other suggestions I'm all ears
<daftykins> when you tested to localhost, it said the versions differed - i wonder if you gain anything by forcing v1 on the client side with /etc/ssh/ssh_config too?
<daftykins> i see a line "# Protocol 2" in there so maybe you can have "Protocol 1" to force
<diplo> I think I did that already on the client side
<diplo> trying now anyhoo
<daftykins> yeah i'd have a go on the same host to see if that message changes at least
<diplo> Still the same :/
<diplo> -vvv gives me this debug1: key_load_public: No such file or directory
<daftykins> sounds like it's going out for a key file and not finding it
<diplo> apparently its normal output in vvv
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> anything crop up in the server logs on that fail too?
<diplo> https://pastebin.com/tNBPmcWD
<diplo> Output from -vvv and I'll get that a mo
<diplo> https://pastebin.com/PCRs7Gn0
<diplo> That's it, can't find anything else
<diplo> Exactly the same setup on their VM, all we did is add Protocol 2,1 and add ssh keys and restarted teh daemon
<daftykins> hmm earlier when you said you allowed Protocol 2,1 - does that mean that exact statement is in the config, so 2 is taking precedence?
<diplo> yeah its how all the examples show it
<diplo> It's also how the working machine looks as well
<diplo> I've even copied keys/config over from the working server
<diplo> So really don't think it's config related... tried permissions.. must be something else.. maybe need to install something
 * daftykins asks some folks in -discuss if they know
<diplo> https://www.openssh.com/releasenotes.html
<diplo> Think I've found the issue
<diplo> Wonder if it's compiled without support...
<daftykins> ah-ha
<diplo> Can't work out how to find that out.. with nginx and such things it lists it
 * diplo googles some more
<diplo> 6.6 worked, wonder if I can pin it for now
<daftykins> Bashing-om: \o
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Maybe of no help .. but I can watch for errors :)
<daftykins> :D diplo reckons the compile options to v7 of sshd may be to blame now
<diplo> Well stupid people wanting to use old versions of ssh are to blame!
<daftykins> hehe damn right
<diplo> dadasq
<diplo_> Can't reconnect to my byobu session
<diplo_> All I need is network problems here as well :D
<daftykins> sounds like a work day from hell
<daftykins> that guys nick isn't nice ^
<diplo_> Hasn't been great no, text my boss and he's going out :)
<daftykins> diplo_: what's the distro on each host? working and non-working
<diplo_> I have joins/parts so miss most things
<diplo_> I know ubuntu channel, but both hosts are CentOS :)
<daftykins> ah, one of the guys just pointed out ubuntu has a separate package for a v1 client - openssh-client-ssh1
<diplo_> Hate centos channel, and most answers are generic for me, I'm trying to search out where they do there compile stuff
<diplo_> ooh, I'll see if cent does too
<diplo_> I rpm -qa | grep ssh and had same packages
<diplo_> openssh.x86_64 : An open source implementation of SSH protocol versions 1 and 2
<daftykins> hmm single package for both client and server eh?
<diplo_> openssh-server is the server package, doesn't mention 1/2 on there though
<diplo_> Just running yum info on it now, see what description says
<diplo_> I'd assume if I set protocol 2,1 it would error out if it wasn't an option
<daftykins> i reckon it's fine but i reckon it's changing what is tried first
<daftykins> back it up and try 1,2 or even 1 on its' own just for fun
<daftykins> may be on the wrong lines but it'll rule it out
<diplo_> Just tried that, failed
<daftykins> weird, still with the 2 and 1 error?
<diplo_> Specifying ssh -1 or ssh -2 allows that
<daftykins> mmm i suppose if the client is picking the server doesn't have a say
<diplo_> Can't install older packages either
<diplo_> Basically, think the client needs to spend some money, as I don't know how to do it :D
<diplo_> Or I'm being stupid, but it appears to be very simple
<daftykins> is your testing VM on the same major version and have the same package versions as their host?
<diplo_> 7.3 and new server 7.4
<diplo_> 7.3 is the VM
<daftykins> and that's where it worked fine? (your VM)
<diplo_> Jumps from 6.6 to 7.4 version of ssh between the two
<diplo_> Yeah
<daftykins> hrmm
<diplo_> I may see if I can find a iso with both versions and create some local VM's
<daftykins> *nod* sounds like a good way to go
<zmoylan-samj3> just don't follow someone blindly... :-P https://i.imgur.com/ZSdlAjX.gifv
<Bashing-om> diplo_: A thought 7.4 - netplan ? then we got a learning curve ; ls -al /etc/netplan/ ' .
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> hmm did your 7.x relate to how their site has v7 17.08 as current?
<diplo_> No /etc/netplan on this box
<diplo_> I just upgraded/insatlled new server, customers tech people were in charge of old one, ie installed it and never touched it
<diplo_> 3mins for the first 7.3 iso, 15mins for 7.4 :/
<daftykins> i can't see those version numbers at centos.org
<diplo_> They don't display it anymore, newest always
<diplo_> http://mirror.nsc.liu.se/centos-store/
<diplo_> Installing 7.3 now, if this works, I'm quitting
<daftykins> cool
<daftykins> ah yeah so the 1708 i'm seeing is 7.4, ok
<diplo_> ta fanx for help btw.. at least I don't feel stupid as I don't think I've missed anything
<diplo_> Ah that's the release date from Redhat
<daftykins> *nod* no worries, hate to see someone working late suffering that fate alone
<daftykins> mmm them and MS using the same year.month bit now
<diplo_> Had to google it to work out, as we use CentOS, they release a month or so after sometimes, confused me at first
<diplo_> taking forever for the post-install on the vm... cmon! :P
<daftykins> mechanical VM storage? :)
<diplo_> Running on my 6 year old work laptop :/ upgraded to ssd which has much improved things... but its old.. work sucks :)
<daftykins> :)
<diplo_> Spec'd a new PC, just over 1k, said it was a bit expensive.. I said no, you're just tight! MD's laptop is Â£1500
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> and the higher they are the less they do i'm sure
<diplo_> Worked first time!
<daftykins> sheesh
<daftykins> so it's that newer version ruining your evening
<zmoylan-samj3> is that the laptop the md never uses and the most difficult thing it does is activate a pretty scrensaver?
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-samj3> did i tell you the one were md had 486 and secretary who did all the accounts had 286? so so slow. so we swapped the cases to speed things up ;-)
<daftykins> XD genius
<zmoylan-samj3> he had a new shiby box that said 486 on his desk. that's all he cared about
<diplo_> zmoylan-samj3: Yup, pretty much yes ref the use of it. I have my personal screen at work and an old PC to run some VM's
<diplo_> Keep saying I'll take them home and not use it, but I like playing..
<diplo_> Second VM is installing, 7.4
<zmoylan-samj3> you need to start stuffing rasp pi into calculators, desk lamp, radio on your desk and off load the cpu heavy tasks to them... :-)
<diplo_> I want a standing desk, and a led light.. said yeah no problem 4 months ago, chased 5 times
<diplo_> Going to order it myself soon
<diplo_> So CONFIRMED - doesn't work
<diplo_> Bah mother ********* - wasted hours
<daftykins> :|
<daftykins> must be the compile options as you say in the 7.4 then?
<diplo_> Waiting on customer to text back now - I reckon so, not sure how to find that out with CentOS, told the customer.. I can't do anything tonight, if they want to go live in the morning they'll have to have newer clients, lots of pennies or carry on with old box and I see if I can downgrade the ssh version package - but do that tomorrow daytime
<diplo_> :)
<daftykins> :>
<diplo_> Electrical wholesalers are skin flints tbh
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> kennyloggins: sort out your connection
<diplo_> joins/quits being removed
<diplo_> is great
<daftykins> yeah, need to keep when you do chat support though
<diplo_> I guess yeah, I haven't been on IRC much outside of work really, I rarely boot my machine up anymore, had enough or PC's recently :)
<daftykins> :)
<diplo_> Used to live on it, just cba anymore - maybe when I get my new PC / laptop for home
<daftykins> what do you fill evenings with instead?
<diplo_> Have 2 young boys with me half the week, so quite busy with them now. Free time I leave the house and see friends or tidy etc and recently, work!
<daftykins> ah-ha
<daftykins> i'm still in the midst of insurance repair work here, so should have plenty of painting to keep me occupied again soon enough
<daftykins> i've let this house work stuff stunt my social goings on the whole year really
<diplo_> I have to do my whole house too, what caused the insurance work ? Flooding ?
<diplo_> You're IoW aren't you ?
<daftykins> almost, Guernsey
<daftykins> water leaks, bathroom + roof
<diplo_> Ah, had the same thing myself. Sucks
<daftykins> brand new bathroom has been ace :D Â£11k of work for only Â£350 spend of my own
<diplo_> Nice! my issue was I had was stuff in the paint that I'm having a blank..
<diplo_> Can't think what it's called. Tired, but basically had to have people in, sealed the house off and ripped it out and dumped it properly
<diplo_> I wish I'd just done it myself, load of fuss
<daftykins> asbestos?
<diplo_> yay, thanks! I was struggling :D
<diplo_> I even googled it and failed... defo time for bed I think
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i hadn't considered it could be in paint, they reckoned i was a bit lucky not having such a discovery in my place - but then mine is ancient, listed building for being a 16th/17th century cottage
<diplo_> It's miniscule amounts though, I'd have been happy to do it myself, I think it's more to make money
<daftykins> yeah no doubt, one of the apprentices has been telling me how little the building firm i'm using spends on facemasks for them when they're removing old questionable stuff
<diplo_> byobu won't let me scroll up with putty, wouldn't do me a favour, I was advised to use luci-admin something on here about 10am, wouldn't take a look for me would you ?
<daftykins> 13:45 < diplo> Not sure if my device is supported, I'll look later on the device
<daftykins> 13:45 < TwistedLucidity> Tried installing "luci-app-firewall"?
<daftykins> 13:46 < TwistedLucidity> That'll give you the web interface for the firewall. Well, it should do.....
<daftykins> that all you need?
<diplo_> yay thank you!
<diplo_> And it has worked! Must remember to say thanks tomorrow :)
<daftykins> hehe
<diplo_> Website and ssh re-opened
<diplo_> Thanks again daftykins - bed time now
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-16
<MooDoo> howdy all
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> ahoy me hearties!
<MooDoo> howdy howdy
<foobarry> upgrading my firefox ..
<foobarry> i have noticed a difference recently. since for a long time 50 tabs was the max i could use
<Laney> not looking forward to losing vimperator
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> just upgraded my firefox, well impressed so far, they were right it's a lot faster
<foobarry> gonna buy a nosebag for disgusting eater in the office
<foobarry> have 126 tabs running in my ff 57..lets see how it goes
<TwistedLucidity> ARG! FF 57 has killed some of the most important addons! FireGestures is no more. :-(
<foobarry> i only really have evernote clipper and ublock
<TwistedLucidity> I've been using gestures for years, can live without it
<TwistedLucidity> Yay! FoxyGestures is the new FireGestures.
<foobarry> https://bookmarkos.com anyone tried thsi?
<foobarry> don't like the square tabs
<foobarry> in ff
<TwistedLucidity> That's the Windows way. You can have anything you like, so long as it is square and flat
<foobarry> whats windows?
<TwistedLucidity> I actually dislike this whole "flat" trend. It can make hard to see where one window/frame/section/thing starts and ends.
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Windows is the defactor industry stanard. Where it leads, you will follow. OBEY THE BEAST OF REDMOND!
<TwistedLucidity> *de facto
<TwistedLucidity> The "hidden" scroll bars in KDE drive me up the wall. The float over text meaning it can be hard to select text under them.
<TwistedLucidity> So FF57 follows the MS style guide even in GNBU/Linux?
<diplo> TwistedLucidity: You won points last nigt for luci program, thank you :)
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Huzzah! Glad it worked
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, the separate the front-end and back-end. Which is kinda nice, when one remembers....
<diplo> heh yep defo, I'd never used it before, searched for ages for the package, my google foo sucked
<diplo> Going to try upgrading to lete tonight probably
<SuperMatt> I'm looking forward to running the updates on my machines, so I can remove my manually installed copy of ff57
<TwistedLucidity> Gadzooks! FF57 and landed in KDE Neon.
<diddledan> I've switched my default browser to ff57 to see if I can live with it
<TwistedLucidity> Install FoxyGestures. <3 me some gesturey goodness
<m0nkey_> diddledan: how are you liking 57?
<diddledan> pretty nice
<SuperMatt> I've been using it since it was in nightly, and it's so fast it bought my crummy laptop back to life
<m0nkey_> :)
<m0nkey_> Don't have it on the work laptop yet as it's running ESR
<m0nkey_> but i do have it in a VM. even in the VM it's damn fast
<m0nkey_> fater than what 56 was with only 2GB RAM
<SuperMatt> absolutely
<SuperMatt> and container tabs are a thing of beauty
<foobarry> what are container tabs?
<SuperMatt> essentially they're "containers" which have different cookies
<SuperMatt> meaning you can be logged in to the same site multiple times
<SuperMatt> or you can do what I do
<foobarry> oh tahts nice
<SuperMatt> I'm logged in to facebook and google in my "personal" container tab, but browse the rest of the web in the "default" container tab
<SuperMatt> This means that sites don't know I'm logged in to facebook
<SuperMatt> It's different to private in that the cookies are still remembered
<m0nkey_> hmm. where do i find this container tabs feature?
<m0nkey_> nvm. found it
<SuperMatt> container tabs are the killer feature which will keep me with Firefox, unless Chrome can do it and more
<m0nkey_> I'm totally going to start using this.
<SuperMatt> It's so awesome, right?
<SuperMatt> really it's the feature that FF should be pushing above all else in this release
<diddledan> you didn't tell us where you found it though
<diddledan> please think about those of us that were waiting for the answer and didn't ask because you did
<SuperMatt> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/multi-account-containers/
<diplo> Just installed this myself, trying to see how it works
<m0nkey_> diddledan: google it :P
<awilkins> Oooh, that's shiny
 * awilkins creates containers for each Amazon account
<awilkins> AWS MASTEH
<daftykins> diddledan: i killed another drive today, it had an old 12.04.5 install on it so i dd zero filled it from the booted OS :D got to watch the journal fail and be disabled
<daftykins> nah i jest, it had 24 bad sectors before i started
 * zmoylan-samj3 remembers the good old days when you had to type ib the supplied list of bad sectors to novell before it would prepare the drive :-)
<daftykins> crikey
<zmoylan-samj3> cheaper drives had long long lists... my boss was cheap...
<daftykins> they provided you with the manufacturer-known bad sectors and you had to avoid them by hand? ugh they just got into the firmware eventually
<daftykins> P-list and G-list, production and grown
<zmoylan-samj3> this was before ide with controllers mounted to the drive esdi, rll drives
<daftykins> ah yeah, so the OS was talking directly to the motor - or was there still something between?
<zmoylan-samj3> duct tape and hope :-)
<daftykins> err mobo side controller would exist surely
<zmoylan-samj3> massive expansion card with 2 cables iirc for esdi to talje to drive obe for data, one for motor control
<daftykins> O_O
<zmoylan-samj3> i once made the mistake of wiring one up correctly and ruined 3 days plus weekends of novell preparing the drive
<zmoylan-samj3> it was meant to be wired incorrectly, silly me
<zmoylan-samj3> now it's all hot swap raid with your namby pamby wishy washy cloud backup... :-)
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-samj3> and the old timer at that time complained about us sending drive back... in his day they'd send an engineer to repair it on site
<zmoylan-samj3> or attempt to. multimeter to check the boards, desolder and replace if that was problem
<daftykins> hahaha, how big were those drives then, still fill a hamster cage?
<zmoylan-samj3> 5mb drive for cpm computer was full height. think 2 5.25! bays filled with one drive
<daftykins> ah yeah
<zmoylan-samj3> we used them as door stops. they were indestructible
<zmoylan-samj3> should have kept one to make a sledgehammer...
<zmoylan-samj3> 10mb were 3 years later and half height. so size of cd rom drive
<daftykins> cor - and now here's me tossing dead multi terabyte ones
<zmoylan-samj3> and i remember a cpm machine brought in with a sound card... music files were midi as no space for real audio
<daftykins> haha :D i still remember having to sellotape in the RAM on the creative labs AWE32
<zmoylan-samj3> sir clive and his blu tack salute you o>
<zmoylan-samj3> about 4pb contains the library of congress... a.c.clarke said mid century... we're getting there
<daftykins> a clients house was so hotly heated today, my Yorkie melted!
<zmoylan-samj3> i seem to remember in wwii hersheys in america made a bar that xould be carried in pocket in tropucal climea without melting... of course even by american chocolate standards it wasn't nice
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-samj3> american dwarf bread... :-P
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-17
<MooDoo> howdy all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-samj3> morning mammals
<foobarry> noticed an annoying feature with ff57
<leecowdrey> just one ;) ?
<foobarry> my github tabs all say " You signed out in another tab or window. Reload to refresh your session"
<foobarry> on a status bar at the top
<leecowdrey> oooh so no connection re-use then....
<foobarry> its our github enterprise so many a bug in GHE
<foobarry> maybe#
<daftykins> i've heard someone complain about third party cookies / tracking protection causing drama too - may be worth a look
<adambialy> rosiak: no they stays "down" pooling graph spiking and then silence...
<daftykins> wrong channel?
<zmoylan-samj3> it's code. it means red fox has met grey squirrel :-)
<daftykins> ah haaar
<daftykins> zmoylan-samj3: A-frame roof beam has had its' resin poured this morning \o/
<zmoylan-samj3> and no amish were harmed in the process \o/
<daftykins> only if that barn over there holds... *squints to the horizon*
 * zmoylan-samj3 chews on grass stalk and mutters 'yarr'
<daftykins> still have to call the carpentry place about the splits in the wood of one of the new windows :(
<zmoylan-samj3> wooden framed windows? quaint
<daftykins> yeah, 16th/17th century listed property so mandatory
<zmoylan-samj3> didn't they have window tax back then? brick it up. slap 50' tv o wall inside connected to cam outside. authentic-ish :-)
<daftykins> XD
<zmoylan-samj3> 1696. just barely https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_tax
<daftykins> ah you must be a devil in pub quizzes
<zmoylan-samj3> never been in one. was my bosses phone a friend on who wants to be a millionaire
<zmoylan-samj3> but he used that option for someone else for a sports answer
<zmoylan-samj3> he asked me a question the next day and i knew the answer. would have gotten him to next round
<zmoylan-samj3> right time for quick limp...
<daftykins> :D
<foobarry> what the heck is wrong with google play music? so expensive
<diplo> Just got Amazon music for 99p for 3 months :)
<diplo> unlimited that is
<foobarry> tried to buy a lightning deal yesterday
<foobarry> they wanted Â£4 postage.
<foobarry> removed from basket
<zmoylan-pixi> now some amazon picker has to take it from basket and put it back on shelf... :-P
<daftykins> and if they don't do it within the alotted time, a siren will sound and their shock collar will charge up!
<zmoylan-pixi> shock collars per picker is expensive, one robot to shock them all...
<daftykins> now that's thinking like Bezos
<zmoylan-pixi> watching it hum past seeking it's next target is motivating
<daftykins> and here it is in action, chasing those pickers - https://gfycat.com/teemingtalkativehammerkop
<zmoylan-pixi> and it positively will not stop until you cast ward stupid programmer...  https://nerdist.com/trap-a-self-driving-car/
<diddledan> fun: https://www.wordfence.com/blog/2017/11/wordpress-plugin-banned-crypto-mining/
<m0nkey_> Just create a firewall rule to block said known crypto miners
<m0nkey_> btw, i got a new domain yesterday
<daftykins> m0nkey_: is it amusing?
<m0nkey_> heh, no.
<m0nkey_> just wasn't expecting it to be available
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-18
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-samj3> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning gelatenous cubes.
<zmoylan-samj3> and non cubes, diversity..
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/gelatinousCube.html#gelatinous-cube
<zmoylan-samj3> a dm had a nice mini he like to use on us. it opened to contain those teappwd inaide it
<zmoylan-samj3> *trapped inside it
<zmoylan-samj3> my suggestion i use a harpoon and rope to pull our team mates out didn't go down well
<zmoylan-samj3> i had heal!
<brobostigon> lolz, :)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-19
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-samj3> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning
<daftykins> hrmm has anyone ever sold on silver jewellery? i found an old bracelet i was gifted when i was younger, no idea if you get much value out of selling it for scrap
<penguin42> I'd heard silver had got a lot more expensive lately
<daftykins> ah that's interesting
<daftykins> i might just pop in one of the high street places in the week, then
<penguin42> daftykins: Is it hall-marked? and is it aesthetically nice?
<daftykins> hmm not sure, personally engraved though and still in the box from the local place that an ex got it, so it might be a bit funny
<penguin42> ah, personally engraved probably doesn't add much, unless it's a generic one :-)
<daftykins> i remember cringing on seeing it the first time, it's an I.D. bracelet with 'Dave' on it, not sure how i'd forget my own name
<penguin42> daftykins: Well, that's the thing, Dave is a very good name
<daftykins> :D that it is!
<penguin42> when you take it back to the place, you'll find out which Dave it was originally made for
<daftykins> it was a gift from an ex, so it was mine
<diddledan> daftykins: you're supposed to chuck gifts from the ex when you split
<diddledan> or better still burn them in an effigy
<daftykins> haha, yeah... i did close to that though by leaving it behind at my parents place for years
<daftykins> today i spent a couple of hours cleaning out drawers of old junk, quite like the idea of minimising clutter ahead of when the house works finish and i get things back
<daftykins> horrifying how much we hold onto if not kept in check, i had a bunch of the pamphlets for a new bank account i created in Portsmouth when i went to Uni, ridiculous :D
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-dwmYeLLng
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> wrong one
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkiix0aveRk
<diddledan> ^ that
<daftykins> heh i'd never seen that but had people quote it to me
<diddledan> hmm, how bad is this gonna be: 10 greatest hackers of all time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp7min0TOiY
<daftykins> "x anything" is bound to be quite trashy :)
<zmoylan-samj3> if it names names then they are ipso facto not the best hackers :-D
<diddledan> zmoylan-pixi: you hop devices far too often :-p
<diddledan> speaking of devices, what happened to all the hype from a couple years ago about phones moving to saphire screens?!
<zmoylan-pixi> <_< >_> keeping ahead of big brother... :-P
<zmoylan-pixi> that and smartphone sucky battery life...
<zmoylan-pixi> super duper indestructible ever lasting batteries is the new fusion power...
<zmoylan-pixi> we can make artifical diamonds now, why not make a phone case out of that?
<penguin42> diddledan: They couldn't make them big enough
<daftykins> Apple had that company in the US trying but they couldn't refine the process, there was a very ugly split over it
<zmoylan-pixi> they could limit breakages by havibg glass on only 1 flippin side...
<zmoylan-pixi> making the surface of the exterior not so smooth as to slip out of hand so easily
<zmoylan-pixi> add a 1-2 mm rim around outside of screen so that when laid down on flat surface it makes no contact to be scratched...
<daftykins> most just buy a case (:
<zmoylan-pixi> a lot of people who spend a grand on a phone are not going to want to stick it in a case...
<daftykins> oh that model specifically, meh
<daftykins> we care not for such fools :D
<zmoylan-pixi> i wonder how long before i see one in a queue in a shop with a cracked screen
<daftykins> only Apple shops will be able to deal right now :)
<zmoylan-pixi> ireland the hq of apple in the eu has no apple shops...
