#edubuntu 2005-08-21
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<Petaris> Hello mhz
<mhz> hey, Petaris 
<ogra> JaneW, Petaris is our first real edubuntu user ;)
* JaneW applauds Petaris !
<Petaris> still some work to be done though
<JaneW> yay :)
<mhz> indeed
<JaneW> Petaris: how's it looking?
<ogra> JaneW, he uses his own desktop environment on top....
<Petaris> JaneW: Well I got a dumb-client up and running with icewm but haven't gotten farther than that
<JaneW> oic
<Petaris> I will need to do some desktop tweaking
<Petaris> also I want to use auto login and have all users use the same storage space
<Petaris> locking down the desktop so changes are not allowed will also be nessesary
<Petaris> but it is a good first step
<Petaris> Oh yeah, I almost forgot I got OpenOffice.org2 installed as well
<mhz> I have tried 3 times, unsuccessfully
<mhz> well, last install kind of worked
<Petaris> install of OO.org or of the ltsp?
<mhz> but took for ever to be up and running
<mhz> edubuntu
<Petaris> ahh
<ogra> mhz, http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13496 
<Petaris> Hey, on a side note icewm loads immediatly (no wait time after login)
<ogra> we are currently working o this one... that blocks the language pack installation and breaks the install
<mhz> yes, icewm is quick
<mhz> Petaris: however, fluxbox is faster, AFAIK
<mhz> :)
<ogra> mhz, did you use the default edubuntu-desktop install in your tests ?
<mhz> I couldn't because there was a powercut downhere and I only got to 89%
<mhz> of the installation
<Petaris> ogra: is there a way to force the install on the languagepack?
<mhz> installation = after rebooting
<Petaris> like a -f flag
<ogra> Petaris, noe, but there is already a fix... it will be in the next CD build
<ogra> nope even
<Petaris> ok
<mhz> ogra: despite of the issues, you have been doing a good job
<ogra> thanks... others see that different :) 
<mhz> the good thing is I finally have a thin laptop running Ubuntu (at least). I installed FROM WINDOWS :D
<ogra> wow...
<mhz> ogra: nah, "show me the code"... that's what really matters
<ogra> i which PXE wireless would work
<mhz> hehe
<ogra> whish even
* mhz would be happy with wired PXE :)
<Petaris> What are you guys using for dumb-clients?
<mhz> it took me 2 days to actually understand a very stupid thing from HowTo's (1st Ubuntu wiki was outdated, 2nd 'append' means 'add to the end')
* ogra uses a amd64 512MB laptop as his *only* testclient
<ogra> i wouldnt call that dumb *g*
<Petaris> ahh
<Petaris> I use solarpc units
<ogra> its my only PXE capable machine
<Petaris> http://www.solarpc.com/
<Petaris> See there
<Petaris> the company has been great to work with
<ogra> Petaris, cool
<Petaris> I ended up getting the server, 25 clients, monitors, keyboards, mice, and a gigabit switch (24pt)
<mhz> WOW
<Petaris> all for under $8,000 USD
<mhz> cool
<Petaris> The server has a single Opteron 242 and 4GB ram, with a pair of 160GB 7200rpm sata drives in raid 1
<Petaris> the server is dual opteron capable though and there is a whole second bank for ram
<Petaris> I consider it a sweet deal
<mhz> ogra: i don't mean to push you at all, but I am running out of time with the timing for a presentation/demo. The congress in Peru is on the 23rd and ONE of the many things I have to prepare (and maybe the most important missing) is a Edubuntu Server. Do yo think I can download a 'working beta' (issues I can avoid before I sit down to actually install)??
<mhz> Petaris: any chances you can wiki that info?
<Petaris> mhz: don't try to use a fake or on-board raid
<ogra> mhz, if you can live with one day delay, yes... i dont know how long the new CD build will take... but i guess tomorrow mornings daily should be installable
<Petaris> mhz: which info?  The server specs?
<mhz> ogra: thank you very much for your understanding
<ogra> mhz, i sadly cant speed it up more...
<mhz> Petaris: yep, among other things. Your specs, how you did it, how you felt, how you feel about it, etc
<Petaris> mhz: are you doing the install in front of them, or just demoing it after
<mhz> ogra: don't worry, I 100% understand you. My 2 machines (1 celeron desktop and 1 thin 500 MHz laptop) work with 128 MB and have to deal with 5 powercuts a day :(
<Petaris> mhz: any specific place it should go in the wiki (wiki.ubuntu.org?)
<mhz> Petaris: I should start demoing. Next day, I should present a workshop
<Petaris> mhz: but you are not installing in front of them right?
<ogra> mhz, as soon as mdz wakes up, he'll be on a CD building spree... i'm very confident he'll use the whip at the right places to make it happen today :)
<Petaris> so a bit more complicated install could be done with out makeing the system look bad
<mhz> Petaris: wiki/ nop. The good thing about wikis is that you just visit the wiki, login, and write TheNameOfYourPage after the / on the url area
<mhz> the real wiki concept is fully 'horizontal' wrtiting or page creation
<Petaris> ahh
<mhz> (actually, that is the hardest thing to realize)
<mhz> and, if Edubuntu people think your page is missplaces, the just assign it to a diff position
<mhz> and you WILL always get to the page anyways
<mhz> :)
<Petaris> does launchpad.com share email addresses?
* mhz is a real fan, sorry for the enthusiasm
<mhz> 'share'?
<Petaris> yeah, with the public
<Petaris> I don't want spam
<mhz> hmmm, I guess you decide if email is shown or not
<mhz> AFAIK, i doubt default is 'shown'
<Petaris> alright
<mhz> Petaris: thx. The thing is that 99% of the times, whatever we chat here it stays here
<mhz> so important things as your experience, it is cool to be wikied
<Petaris> I don't have all that much experiance on ltsp, so it will be new for me, I am very curious about the load on the server with 25 active clients
<mhz> hhehe, fisrt impressions are as valid and interesting as experienced expectations
<ogra> you need much mem :)
<mhz> LOL
<mhz> Petaris: fisrt impressions give edubuntu devels more ideas on how to improve something they do
<Petaris> Yeah, Im not sure if the 1.8GHz Opteron and 4GB RAM can pull it off with 25 sessions of firefox, openoffice.org, and gimp
<Petaris> but we will see
<mhz> Petaris: c'mon! that's a lot 
<mhz> huge machine
<ogra> Petaris, i know highvoltage builds such environments, according to him 4GB are good
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> Petaris: it all depends on how much you want stations to demand from the server
<Petaris> ogra: yeah, I emailed Paul Nelson at Riverdale high school about it a while ago
<Petaris> He thought it would be fine but suggested a second proc
<Petaris> but we will see
<Petaris> Paul is the head of K12LTSP
<Petaris> http://k12ltsp.org/contents.html
<Petaris> ogra: he may be able to help you guys out a bit
<ogra> i think mdz already works with the guys in #ltsp, i guess Paul is hanging around there
<Petaris> oh, I don't know about that, just that I've always found him helpful
<highvoltage> Petaris: we use Xeon 3ghz with 2GB RAM in tuxlabs with 20 computer
<Petaris> highvoltage: dual proc or single?
<Petaris> is there a reason we need to use gdm?
<highvoltage> Petaris: single
<highvoltage> gdm is cool. what else would you want to use?
<Petaris> xdm
<Petaris> it is small and light
<highvoltage> it is, but it won't be popular in schools.
<ogra> who uses gdm ? 
<Petaris> I'm just wondering if ldm is dependant on gdm
<highvoltage> ogra: we use gdm, in edubuntu 
<ogra> we use ldm in our ltsp implementation
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> ah, right.
<ogra> highvoltage, edubuntu doesnt :)
<Petaris> ogra: so ldm is standalone then, right?
<highvoltage> how's ldm? i think i'll go look for a site.
<ogra> Petaris, ldm is a complete new login manager implementation in python
<ogra> highvoltage, there is no site.... 
<ogra> its included in the ltsp package...
<Petaris> by the by ldm needs to be prettified, is there any easy way to tweak how it looks?
<highvoltage> ogra: is ldm only used in edubuntu atm? i haven't seen it anywhere before.
<Petaris> brb
<ogra> i'll write some instructions... you have to chroot into the ltsp environment and install another gtk engine to change the theme... for now we go with our default theme only
<ogra> highvoltage, mdz wrote it... i wrote the gui...
<ogra> its not fifnished yet
<highvoltage> wow.
<ogra> and, yes, only in edubuntu ltsp
<highvoltage> i've just started the download of the new cd.
<highvoltage> i really want to see this.
<ogra> highvoltage, wait for the next CD or rsync the updae to it... the current one is still broken... next is likely to be installable
<highvoltage> how does it's theming work? I suppose it won't use something big like the xml layouts that gdm uses.
<highvoltage> is it diffult to fix? the last one i downloaded i could get more or less booting.
<ogra> i hardcoded the theme engine it uses.... but you can change the gtkrc... i'll build a config file for the theme soon...
<ogra> it somehow looks like the gdm classic greeter with a theme...
<highvoltage> aah. so you get a background and a logo? :P
<ogra> currently a black background and a login box
<mhz> ogra: once edubuntu is installed, is there a GUI for LSTP or it is just a matter of running ltsp tools? Also, after installing, where do we set the option to install edubuntu onto the clients?
<Petaris> ok, back
<Petaris> I had to make coffee
<Petaris> :)
<ogra> mhz, there is no option to install anything on the clients... why would you want that ? 
<ogra> they netboot from the server and open a ssh tunnel.... through this they run a x session on the server
<mhz> yes
<ogra> i started a admin tool, since teachertool doesnt work for us, but it doesnt look like i have enough time left to get it ready...
* Petaris thinks of what his next step should be
<Petaris> hrmm
<mhz> I may have understood wrong, but I do rememeber after last wed meeting here, someone mentioned it is possible to install linux onto the clients using Edubuntu
<ogra> you can do a standalone workstation install (for teachers at home) and a standalone ltsp server install for now in this release...
<mhz> ?
<ogra> oter features will be added in breezy+1
* mhz trying to understand right this time
<ogra> mhz, our target is to have a standalone ltsp/diskles client install out of the box... additionally you can install a version without the server stuff thats a standalone workstation
<mhz> yes, I get that part
<Petaris> ok, first thing to fix - Fonts in firefox
<ogra> we dont support any mid sized clients yet
* mhz looking in his logs to find out the guilty one:)
<ogra> i.e. ltsp clients with disks... you will need to do that manually in this release.... it will be a feature of the next one
<Petaris> ogra: the firefox font issue is because of the languagepack issue right?
<ogra> Petaris, i dont have it, so i dont know... buit its likely to be a ff/cairo problem... 
<mhz> ogra: Aug 10 08:45:28 <Kamion>        you should be able to test netboot installs if you boot with apt-setup/universe=true, plus the other Edubuntu preseeds that are on the CD
<mhz>  mhz: there's a netboot.tar.gz in /ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/images/ or somewhere like that in the archive
<ogra> mhz, that was about how to work around the CD brakage at this time, it has nothing to do with client installations
<mhz> that is still chineese to me
<mhz> ahhhhh
<mhz> so I am still forced to boot from CD
<mhz> ?
<mhz> or other media
<mhz> or from Windows
<ogra> ?? 
<ogra> for the client ? 
<mhz> yes
<ogra> it boots via PXE from the network by default... you dont install anything on it
<mhz> i know
<ogra> asll installed stuff is on the server
<mhz> but IF I need to install onto thinclients?
<ogra> all even
<ogra> you dont
<mhz> I do
<mhz> :)
<mhz> LTSP is about not installing, I get that
<ogra> if a privileged user installs something on the clients, he effectively installs on the server
<mhz> but IF I do need to install linux on the clients?
<ogra> why ? 
<ogra> you dont need *any* OS on the clients
<mhz> because in Chile, some schools come with MS windows (based on a stupid agreement with MS and Gov)
<ogra> just a PXE capable network card... all your softeare is on the server
<mhz> and some people still prefer to give Teachers and students the option to work on a network (LTSP would be great for that) and also to work off network (may take the pc home for a weekend)
<mhz> for those OFF network, I'd need a quick install option
<ogra> yes, the single workstation i mentioned before...
<mhz> I am presenting a project to Chilean Gov. about giving Teachers laptops (600 MHz, 192 MB, 12 GB HDD)
<ogra> its just not possible to combine it, you can only use either one... 
<mhz> ok, I get that too
<ogra> thats on our roadmap for breezy+1 as i said
<mhz> but these thin laptops have only HD, no Cd nor Floppy
<mhz> ok.
<mhz> so let me see If I understand right this time:
<Petaris> Anyone know if it is possible to get ltsp to authenticate off of ActiveDir?
<ogra> ok, for these you can do a netboot install 
<ogra> Petaris, not yet... also a breezy+1 feature...
<mhz> ogra: now you got me confused again
<mhz> :D
<mhz> so let me see If I understand right this time:
<mhz> Edubuntu is designed 100% LTSP,
<Petaris> ogra: your kidding right?  You think it will be possible?
<ogra> mhz, you can install a linux system over the network.... this info is totally independent from all edubuntu talk
<ogra> you can use even a netboot image to install edubuntu
<Petaris> ogra: I was seriously consider switching to eDirectory to be able to authenticate
<ogra> but you cant use a standalone installed edubutnu system to connect to a ltsp server for now
<mhz> ogra: yes, but to do that, clients still need to get to the server side and get it from there, otherwise, they continue booting from windows and therefore, no install will proceed
<ogra> Petaris, we'll most likely have a LDAP/Kreberos environment in breezy+1 so it should be possible
<mhz> so Edubuntu is ONLY LTSP so far, and may include Server Boot Install capabilities in the future
<mhz> ogra: is that correct?
<ogra> mhz, they need to boot the installer from the network... but thats only about installing, not about working
<mhz> yes
<Petaris> ogra: cool
<mhz> ogra: and to do that, PXE is just the 1st step. the server side has to be preconfigured to provide the netboot files
<ogra> yes
<mhz> and that is not on this current Edubuntu scope, right?
<ogra> its not in edubutnu scope at all... thats basic installation stuff...
<mhz> yes
<mhz> so I have finally cleared my confussion
<mhz> sorry for the 'mess'
<ogra> you just need the netboot image from the installer... what you install with it is up to you
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> yes
<Petaris> ogra: I uninstalled the mozilla-firefox package and installed the firefox package and now I have fonts
<ogra> but it would probably a interesting idea to have a option on the server for that... we have a spec for network wide installs that may cove it
<mhz> but still, for school options, that means I will have to provide 2 settings: Edubuntu (LTSP) and Debian BootServer
<ogra> Petaris, hwere did you get mozilla-firefox ?? thats not a breezy package
<mhz> ogra: please, understand that I am only talking from a Chilean teacher perspective
<ogra> mhz, as an option...
<ogra> why should i build a special boot server, ltsp has everything in place (tftp etc) it could be possible to have an option on the server, no need for a extra machine...
<mhz> that was my initial idea that started this confussion
<ogra> i'll consider it for breezy+1 but its not there now...
<mhz> okidoki
<ogra> and i think its covered by the mentioned spec
<mhz> I am glad you clarified that to me
<mhz> because I was designing my presentation based on that DUAL capability :D
<mhz> and now it's only LTSP
<ogra> s/now/currently
<ogra> ;)
<mhz> actually one of the openings was "the solution to schools lab and teachers problems"
<mhz> it still is a solution, just not the total solution
<mhz> but the begining
<ogra> yes, its our first release.... we start small...
<mhz> Basically, my concern is that "Edulinux" is being developed by the Gov and some people, based on RedHat.
<mhz> In chile, we have set up a ubuntu community
<ogra> over how many releases can you upgrade that without a complete reinstall ?
<mhz> and a free software for education community. So Edubuntu was the ideal link
<ogra> the big drawback of RPM based systems is the upgradebility
<mhz> indeed
<ogra> you can upgrade a debian system over several releases without even thinking about it... its just one command...
<highvoltage> ogra: most rpm systems aren't too bad imho. you can even use apt. it still doesn't beat a debian system...
<mhz> hence one of the projects I am on at the moment, was to actually provide Pcs + LSTP + InstallationServer + Support + Training
<highvoltage> ogra: i think that's also an overstatement. i upgraded a potato box to sarge and did have few, minor issues.
<mhz> all in one simple pack
<ogra> highvoltage, the question is, does issuing "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" and going away for 1h work ? 
<ogra> highvoltage, yes, because you missed woody
<mhz> ogra: good point
<mhz> you need to go step by step
<ogra> you need to upgrade to the next version, if you do that you mostly dont even need to touch the box, its ready after a reboot
<highvoltage> ogra: i've done it before from FC1 to FC3 for a school, and it worked.
<highvoltage> I also used it on a SuSE box from SuSE 9.0 to 9.3. that also went fine.
<ogra> highvoltage, thats very rare
<mhz> is 9.0 to 9.3 the same as 8.0 to 9.0 ??
<ogra> (working SuSE upgrades)
<highvoltage> ogra: i'm not arguing with you. I just think that it's a bit of an overstatement to say that you don't even have to think about it.
<mhz> I mean in terms of version
<highvoltage> there are often things to consider.
<ogra> highvoltage, but its true
<ogra> highvoltage, did you try to upgrade warty to hoary ? its 3 commands and you are set...
<mhz> if you go from Xfree to x.org? yes, things to consider
<ogra> no touching of the system at all
<ogra> mhz, nope
<highvoltage> mhz: xfree to xorg went smooth form me.
<mhz> ogra: highvoltage: things to consider = 99% freedom to 100% freedom
<mhz> :)
<highvoltage> ogra: i've dist-upgraded between knoppix -> sarge -> sid -> warty -> back to sid again, without much problems. I have lots of faith in APT.
<highvoltage> however,
<ogra> mhz, highvoltage we (ubuntu) guaratee that upgardes between nonmodified releases work out of the box 
<highvoltage> i've dist-upgraded on servers before and for some reasons postfix won't work.
<highvoltage> and that needed some fixing.
<mhz> I have gone from potato to woody with no issues, and from woody to sarge with no issues
<ogra> highvoltage, if you use knoppix as a base your system is broken before you start
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, i'll accept that.
<Petaris> ogra: with apt
<highvoltage> ogra: it is?
<ogra> highvoltage, yes, a knoppix installation has not much to do with a debian system anymore... they just copy over the CD to HD ...
<ogra> with a lot of incompatibility
<ogra> since its not designed as a install system
<highvoltage> ogra: the dpkg databases, etc are all still intact, and dist-upgrades to other debian systems went well for me.
<highvoltage> but yes, i agree with you.
<ogra> btw the path knoppix -> sarge -> sid -> warty cant work
<highvoltage> ogra: i promise you it did.
<ogra> you end up with a debian system with some warty packages
<ogra> it didnt
<ogra> you had a mixed system
<highvoltage> okay. perhaps i did. now that i think of it, i remember seeing a knoppix in the init line when it booted.
<ogra> sid is/was newer then warty except for a period of 2 months... apt doesnt downgrade without being forced
<highvoltage> but the dist-upgrades did go fine, and the system looked and worked like an ordinary ubuntu machine.
<highvoltage> ah, this was also more than a year ago.
<ogra> yes, but you have mostly debian systems in there
<highvoltage> or at least, when i upgraded to sid, that was before warty
<ogra> i'm cursing people doing that a lot, because they send totally broken hwdb entrys to me that confuse everything (debians hal is newer, but missing all hwdb enhancements)
<ogra> and that goes for the majority of packages...
<highvoltage>  i don't do that on any machines anymore, though.
<ogra> even if it looks like a ubuntu system, it will break heavily at one place or you end up with a plain debian
<highvoltage> back then it was just upgrading the various systems that i had to ubuntu.
<highvoltage> since then i've done some cleanups and re-installed.
<ogra> one upgrade will pull in a wrong library... 
<ogra> that will break everything...
<highvoltage> will apt allow that though? i mean, it knows what versions of libraries programs need to run?
<ogra> breezy will be eve worse ( but hopefully wont work at all) since we already use a new gcc and libc...
<jsgotangco> yay
<ogra> highvoltage, apt relies on the sanity of the archive... thats only guven if you dont mix your surces.list entrys between different distributors
<highvoltage> that i understand. do you think ubuntu-debian compatibility will get worse, or better, as time goes by?
<jsgotangco> i love to being in this growing confusion
<ogra> they are two different things all devs shout very loud not to mix ubuntu and debian packages since warty is out... its proven to brak at some point
<ogra> i.e. we use language packs, debian doesnt... that *must* break....
<ogra> our libc is compiled with gcc, debian just starts that transition
<ogra> s/gcc/gcc4
!lilo:*! Hi all. We had some compile difficulties on the testnet and we're now ready to reup.
<ogra> our c++ librarys have totally different binary names
<highvoltage> long term though, is it likely to get worse, or better?
<ogra> we have a totally different Xserver implementation
<ogra> it will stay the same, dont use debian packages in ubuntu atll
<ogra> all
<highvoltage> i mean, debian might implement the language packs, etc too in the future, and they might plan their releases in such a way to maitain compatibility (big job probably)
<ogra> we use our own build system, we'll never be 100% compatible... and our schedule doesnt match any debian schaduel so either we or they are bnewer
<highvoltage> ok.
<highvoltage> i accept it, but i'll admit that i don't like it.
<jsgotangco> you can also think that we're too advanced for debian itself at the moment :)
<ogra> its not possible to be binary compatible all over the place between the two different approaches... one is always ahead of the other.... debian is behind us currently, but will pass us after release
<jsgotangco> yes but by then we have another one in development because we're alway in sid
<ogra> jsgotangco, yes, i talk about releases
<jsgotangco> ahh
<Petaris> I liked portage far better than apt
<Petaris> right, now to create a standard interface
<Petaris> Where can I set-up default profile info for the dumb-clients
<Petaris> I suppose I create a user and modify that profile then point all ltsp users at that profile?
<Petaris> highvoltage: how do you handle logins?
<Petaris> do you asign usernames and passwords, or do you have just one generic username/password or do you use autologin?
<highvoltage> Petaris: nothing fancy. usually pam, sometimes a little NIS where appropriate, sometimes ldap.
<highvoltage> in tuxlabs, we create default guest acounts
<highvoltage> tux1, tux2, tux3, etc.
<Petaris> ok
<highvoltage> so that kids can start using the lab the minute we're done. after that the teachers and computer prefects need to add more users.
<Petaris> do you have them login or does it just automatically login on boot
<highvoltage> manually log in.
<ogra> in edubuntu, just create the users with the user management tool from the admin desktop
<ogra> every user you create has access ...
<Petaris> what user managemnet tool?
<Petaris> useradd?
<Petaris> :p
* Petaris is not running gnome, :)
<ogra> sad
<ogra> because that tool is tailored for ubuntu/edubuntu
<ogra> install gnome-system-tools and use the user-admin tool
<Petaris> useradd can be your friend too :)
<ogra> you can have different profiles there
<Petaris> ogra: will that install gnome as well?
<ogra> sure, but adding a user tzo the right groups can be a PITA
<ogra> gnome libs
<Petaris> lets see, they need audio and what else?
<Petaris> they don't need wheel
<Petaris> or cdrom
<Petaris> or burning
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> I think they only need audio unless there is an ltsp group
<Petaris> highvoltage: do you use independant user profiles or do you have all accounts reference the same profile?
<highvoltage> independent.
<Petaris> or do you reference a template
<Petaris> ahh
<highvoltage> a template, called skeletux. although it's very messy at this stage.
<Petaris> do you have a shared storage space?
<highvoltage> yes.
<Petaris> hmm
<highvoltage> /home/shared, and there's a shortcut on the desktop to it, which is also a samba share.
<Petaris> cool
<Petaris> thats what I was thinking of doing
<ogra> highvoltage, would you like to take a look at sabayon ? we'll most likely use it for the privileged stuff....
<highvoltage> ogra: okay, i made a note of it. i have meetings tonight and tomorrow night, so i'll be able to look at it on thursday.
<jsgotangco> ogra: are we including sabayon?
<ogra> highvoltage, take your time... it would just be nice to have somebody additionally looking at it... i'll do it anyway...
<highvoltage> ogra: JaneW says you're taking too much on for yourself :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, a thing i'll still have to discuss with mdz, but its the tool that comes near a kiosk mode  :)
<jsgotangco> indeed
<highvoltage> ok. gtg now. take care everyone!
<ogra> ciao highvoltage 
<jsgotangco> ciao
<highvoltage> ciao ogra and jsgotangco 
<Petaris> latter highvoltage
<highvoltage> l8r Petaris 
<Petaris> some day I really need to learn how to spell, hehe
<ogra> Petaris, edubuntu will come with a lot of spellchecking capabilitys ;)
<Petaris> haha, good
<JaneW> nod
<Petaris> http://www.projectblackdog.com/site/product.html
<Petaris> check this out
<Petaris> off topic I know, but cool none the less
* mhz rebooting to test touchpad off
<mhz> jsgotangco: I read your email about svn for cookbook source
<mhz> it was you, weren't you?
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> mhz: you have a better idea?
<mhz> well, I was/am the one suggesting Moin :)
<jsgotangco> yes im aware of that, what im asking is if its workable in our current moin
<jsgotangco> because we only have a few weeks before documentation freeze
<jsgotangco> mhz: ?
* mhz sorry on the phone
<jsgotangco> k
<JaneW> *** Reminder MEETING NOTICE: Next meeting is scheduled for 22:00 UTC Wednesday 17 Aug on #ubuntu-meeting. ***
<JaneW> tomorrow
<ogra_afk> hopefully with a working CD :)
<jsgotangco> grr
<jsgotangco> 22
<jsgotangco> that's 6am
<JaneW> sigh it was meant to be a BETTER time for you
<ogra_afk> make it 23
<jsgotangco> no i'll just try to wake up early
<JaneW> 11pm!
<JaneW> YAWN
<jsgotangco> huh?
<ogra> JaneW, hey, i have some at 1am :)
<jsgotangco> its already 11pm on my side now
<LinuxJones> JaneW, what timezone is UTC for what area ?
<jsgotangco> i don't even feel sleepy
<ogra> LinuxJones, date -u 
<JaneW> UTC is universal time
<JaneW> = GMT
<LinuxJones> ahh ty
<JaneW> LinuxJones: where are you?
<LinuxJones> JaneW, Eastern Canada in the Atlantic Time Zone
<JaneW> omg I thought I made it 20:00 - 22:00 is 12am!
<JaneW> can we change it to 20:00? or any other time?
<ogra> sure
<jsgotangco> 20 is 4am
<jsgotangco> sure
<ogra> heh
<JaneW> gah!
<mhz> re
<JaneW> ok make some suggestions
<ogra> jsgotangco, so you can decide to stay up long or stand up early
<mhz> LOL
<LinuxJones> heh
<JaneW> we haven;t given the Americas a chance yet (all meetings being at 12:00UTC so far)
<JaneW> but that works well for me
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i prefer to say to myself that i live in the wrong place at the moment, working with you gusy
<jsgotangco> guys
<JaneW> luckilly I am in the middle of everyone so it's never TOO bad
<ogra> JaneW, since k12 is our main target, we should start caring for the americans soon :)
<JaneW> ok so what time are we doing it?
<mhz> I live in South America, chile. so 22PM UTC would be 18 PM ???
<JaneW> 22:00?
<ogra> after release this meetings will get fuller i guess
<jsgotangco> indeed
<JaneW> mhz: I think so
<JaneW> jsgotangco: will you be there at 22:00? cos if not I'm moving it to 20:00 - ok?
<jsgotangco> 22 is fine with me
<JaneW> dang
<JaneW> ok
<jsgotangco> but you should consider the majority
<jsgotangco> so if its 20, i will try
<jsgotangco> we don't meet every now and then
<JaneW> 4am? that's just mean
<mhz> 4am? just perfect for a mokaccino
<mhz> :)
<jsgotangco> JaneW: thank the saviour that i don't live in Sydney
<mhz> I endup a class at 18:00 :(
<JaneW> mhz: local time in Santiago is 4 hours behind UTC
<mhz> yep
<mhz> but not in ubunut wiki server :)
<JaneW> mhz so you want it earlier or later?
* JaneW must go in 5 mins
<jsgotangco> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2005&month=8&day=17&hour=22&min=0&sec=0
<ogra> JaneW, and miss all the fun today ? 
<mhz> I prefer a bit later so I can get to it, but I am usually almost zero help :D
<JaneW> ogra: what time does the fun start?
* JaneW does not want to miss yoga again... my sanity needs it
<ogra> JaneW, if mdz gets up ? 
<jsgotangco> yeah
<JaneW> ogra: lol
<jsgotangco> yoga
<JaneW> I'll try to pop in later, but it looks to be a LATE night tomorrow...
<jsgotangco> you don't look like a yoga person
<JaneW> yes
<jsgotangco> to me
<ogra> quoting #u-d topic: Colony 3 will release today: don't break anything
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I don't? ;)
* JaneW has been doing yoga for 7.5 years :P
<ogra> jsgotangco, huh ? how do "yoga persons" look ? like walking nodes ? 
<jsgotangco> hmm so you can bend yourself silly?
<ogra> s/nodes/knots
<jsgotangco> like a twister champ?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: but I counter balance that with kata box - so I can relax and/or beat people up depending on which urge is stronger ;P
* ogra makes note not to mess with JaneW in RL ...
<JaneW> lol
<ogra> :)
<JaneW> ogra: you;re far to nice to beat up :)
<JaneW> besides I can only do it if there's music with the right beat playing!
<ogra> hehe.... my GF would say different sometimes :)
* jsgotangco gets this urge to finish his edubuntu commitment on time
<JaneW> hehehe
<JaneW> ok I must go, I guess the meeting time stays as is...
<ogra> yup, have fun... and dont forget: "only bend, dont break" ;)
<jsgotangco> she must have very strong bones
<jsgotangco> good night
<Petaris> hrm, why can't I find blackdown in apt
<Petaris> what is used for java?
<ogra__> should be in multiverse
<Petaris> I'll check my sources.list file
<Petaris> I have no multiverse
<Petaris> hrm
<ogra__> add it
<Petaris> what mirror should I add?
<ogra__> blackdown is supposed to be there for breezy, i'm not sure if it got moved there aleready
<Petaris> just use the us.archive.org mirror?
<ogra__> yup
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> apparently not ther yet
<Petaris> s/ther/there
<ogra__> nope, i just asked doko in #ubuntu-devel ... its not in yet
<Petaris> bugger, I need it to run jedit
<Petaris> guess I'll just have to use nano for now
<ogra__> there is a Java wikipage, look at that one for blackdown sources.list entrys
<mpt> Just what the world needs, three ogras
<ogra__> heh
<ogra__> there he goes
<highvoltage> hmmm... i upgraded to hoary latest and now thunderbird doesn't start up. any idea?
<highvoltage> alt+f2 and alt+tab doesn't work either.
<ogra__> nope, ask pitti, i think he made the updated apckages for hoary
<ogra__> packages too
* AlinuxOS is away: I'm busy
<mdz>    * Added openssh-server to server-i386, server-amd64, server-powerpc
<mdz>    * Added dhcp3-server to server-i386, server-amd64, server-powerpc
<mdz> ogra: ^ ???
<ogra> mdz, sure... we want ltsp out of te box, dont we ? ltsp-server only has arecommends for openssh-server
<mdz> ogra: ltsp-server doesn't give you ltsp out of the box
<mdz> that is what ltsp-standalone-server is
<ogra> oops... so dhcp is to much, i see
<mdz> it is not only too much, it won't work, because dhcp3-server will be unconfigured
<ogra> i'll create a config with the -config package later... for testing users can modify the file from /etc/ltsp
<mdz> why would you want to do something different than what Ubuntu is doing?
<ogra> mdz, how else should i get ltsp out of the box ? i need a working dhcp.conf
<ogra> s/dhcp.conf/dhcpd.conf
<mdz> ogra: that is what ltsp-server-standalone does
<mdz> that is what the file in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf is
<ogra> hmm, not for me yet... how does it determine the ip range etc ? additionally the tftp server is disabled by default and portmap blocks nfs connections
<ogra> so i will have to make some basic changes for a working config... at least thats what i expirienced here until now...
<ogra> i didnt know you intended to change nfs and tftp services with ltsp-server-standalone... so these are bus then...
<ogra> bugs even
<mdz> ogra: ltsp-server has configured nfs exports since version 0.25
<mdz> ogra: in June
<mdz> ogra: and tftp requires no configuration
<ogra> it does, in /etc/defaults ... its disabled...
<ogra> at least for me... even after installing l-s-s
<ogra> the exports are configured fine, but the nfs-kernel-server isnt started and portmap still listens on lo for me...
<mdz> ogra: the default for portmap should be to listen on all interfaces
<ogra> OPTIONS="-i 127.0.0.1"
<ogra> from /etc/default/portmap
<ogra> #Defaults for tftpd-hpa
<ogra> RUN_DAEMON="no"
<ogra> OPTIONS="-l -s /var/lib/tftpboot"
<mdz> then someone broke it
<mdz> RUN_DAEMON is irrelevant
<mdz> it runs from inetd by default
<ogra> from /etc/default/tftpd-hpa
<mdz> but please do fix portmap
<mdz> it was only set to 127.0.0.1 for fam in hoary
<ogra> did we exclude it in breezy from the desktop ? 
<mdz> it is in universe
<ogra> ah, found it
<mdz> and has been for months
<ogra> NFS is explicitly not here, because it brings in nasties like portmap, and because the network will need to be running before it can be used, so we may as well put that in Supported.
<ogra> great :)
<ogra> mdz, portmap isnt in universe... (luckily... i was fearing another main inclusion report already) its just not in base anymore...
<ogra> s/base/minimal
* mpt realizes the Edubuntu spec never got personal use cases
<mdz> ogra: ?
<mdz> ogra: fam is in universe
<mdz> ogra: portmap was part of desktop in hoary because we had fam in desktop, and fam required portmap
<mdz> so we changed portmap to listen only on localhost by default for security reasons
<mdz> now we don't have fam in desktop anymore (it's moved to universe), and portmap's default was supposed to be changed back
<ogra> yep... i was reading the above as portmap is in universe... which shocked me a bit :)
<ogra> mpt, our two current usecases are one classroom (ltsp standalone setup) or teachers home (workstation standalone setup) thats what we worked out at the summit for the first release... 
<ogra> (teachers home can as well be pupils home indeed)
<mdz> I just uploaded portmap fixing the default
<mdz> that was supposed to change months ago and I thought it had
<ogra> oh, i was just on it
<ogra> i bet someone thinks he has changed that....
<ogra> if [ "$1" = "configure" ]  && [ -n "$2" ]  && dpkg --compare-versions "$2" lt "5-7ubuntu2"; then
<mdz> that's for upgrades
<mdz> the default in debian/templates was wrong
<ogra> ah, yes
<Petaris> Well I'm off
<Petaris> bye all
#edubuntu 2006-08-14
<xwind_> Is there a way to prevent users from doing a reboot or shutdown at the terminal/thinclient?
<lucasvo> xwind_: dapper fixed this bug
<lucasvo> xwind_: If you upgrade to dapper it should work
<xwind_> i have dapper. Is this controlled by a config file? which one?
<lucasvo> xwind_: well if you log out from gnome afaik the only option is log out, no halt or reboot
<lucasvo> xwind_: I can't tell you more, I don't know much about it
<xwind_> so it appears that this the default setup.
<pygi> lucasvo, it wasn't fixed I think
<pygi> you can switch to upstream dialog tho which kinda fixes it
<pygi> (gconf key)
<xwind_> can i disable the shutdown and reboot functions of thinclient users instead?
<bddebian> Howdy
<crimsun> hmm, pyweek looks really cool, actually.
<LaserJock> cool
<crimsun> d'oh, need to fix pygame first.
<Burgundavia> crimsun: that is does. Too bad it uses sdl and thus excludes it from main
<crimsun> erm...
<crimsun> libsdl1.2debian | 1.2.10-3ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Packages
<crimsun>  libsdl1.2 | 1.2.10-3ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Sources
<Burgundavia> oh, wait
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> in other news --> 
<crimsun> lovely weather!
<Burgundavia> http://ubuntu-ca.org/why-gnome-brochure.pdf
<Burgundavia> the delay was due to the wrong url in my clipbaord
<Burgundavia> crimsun: give me feedback, dammit. You too LaserJock
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: the Gnome foot falls off the bottom here
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: rendering bug due to conversion to pdf with inkscape 0.43. Not a major issue
<Burgundavia> 0.44 solves all those
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<Burgundavia> hey highvoltage, long time, no see
<highvoltage> hey Burgundavia 
<highvoltage> yes, been catching up with my personal life last week
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<RichEd> morning ...
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<RichEd> hello highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hello RichEd 
<RichEd> this winter seems to be making up for the last few years meager rainfalls
<RichEd> wuold have been faster to take my kids to school in a rubber duckie this morning
<highvoltage> it wasn't /that/ bad :)
<highvoltage> the lightning was cool though
<cbx33> Mornin all
<highvoltage> morning cbx33!
<cbx33> MOrning HiVoLtAgE
<cbx33> RichEd, can I aska question
<RichEd> sure cbx33 ... just back from a spontaneous XTalk quit ... strange behaviour on my machine today
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> um, you know I'm working on the new UbuntuSounds?
<RichEd> yessir
<cbx33> Well, Troy_s and I decided we think the palette is large enough to show to "higher up" people
<RichEd> sounds god ;)
<RichEd> good i mean :P
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> Troy reckons it should be brought up at a CC meeting for peole to look at
<cbx33> So I talked to Frank Schoep, the artwork chief
<cbx33> and he seemed a little unsure about what the CC meeting is for
<RichEd> CC meeting .. new lingo for me ... expand ?
<cbx33> what would you recommend?
<cbx33> the community council meeting
<cbx33> there is one today
<cbx33> and I'd like to get some direction
<cbx33> from people who will probably be making the decision
<cbx33> If you get my drift...just wondered what your opinion was on the matter
<RichEd> i'm quite new to the decison making process ... give me a bit of background as to the "matter at hand" ... i.e.
<RichEd> you're doing new sounds ...
<cbx33> ok
<RichEd> who requested them ?
<RichEd> what is the impact ?
<cbx33> exactly, the sounds havn't been changed in at least 2 releases
<RichEd> how were the sounds initially chosen ?
* RichEd listens
<cbx33> there was a spec to do them, but nobody has taken it up
<cbx33> there is an ubuntu-audio team....but it seems really dead
<cbx33> troy/frank think that the sounds fall under artwork jurisdiction
<cbx33> everyone in artwork seems happy with the way the sounds are going
* RichEd nods - look & feel 
<cbx33> I'm unsure how they were originally chosen
<cbx33> I wasn't around then
<RichEd> q: how often does the CC meet ?
<cbx33> an Ubuntu n00b really
<cbx33> once a week i think?
<RichEd> q: are your sounds for Edubuntu or Ubuntu
<cbx33> Ubuntu, with the option of possibly creatign a distinct sound for edubuntu too
<RichEd> so if you want to take the gentle approval route ... how about:
<RichEd> 1) you table the request for consideration at today's meeting
<RichEd> 2) you get names of people who want to listen & offer opinion
<RichEd> 3) send them an email, with sounds (or links) an a voting option
<RichEd> 4) include : "leave sounds as is" as an option
<cbx33> of course
<cbx33> ok, thank you RichEd 
<cbx33> should I modify the CC meeting Agenda?
<RichEd> 5) let them know that next meeting, you will discuss results of voting ?
<RichEd> ... in that way, it is fair, everyone who is actually intersted can sample, and there is a "paper trail" for the decision
<RichEd> i'd say yes ... so today, you introduce the decision process ... and tell people next meeting is decision actual
<RichEd> imho of course
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> ok, np
<willvdl> RichEd: Do you know anything of the African Virtual University?
<RichEd> willvdl: i've comea cross the name before ... but can't say i've dug very deep
<RichEd> it would be a good discussion topic for Duncan Greaves (TENET) ...
<willvdl> hmmm. Seems to be one of the e-commission areas
<willvdl> e-learning in general that is. 
<RichEd> browse around http://www.tenet.ac.za/ when you get a chance ... we must set up a meeting with Duncan soon ... overlap with TENET & NEPAD countries
<RichEd> re: http://www.avu.org/ check if there is "any recommended place to buy hardware" etc. how do they expect their students to get up & connected
<RichEd> we may be able to provide an Edubuntu / Ubuntu OEM link ? just a thought ... same thing for UNISA etc.
<willvdl> funny how they've never really been mentioned around e-schools, yet in a NEPAD context, they are there to support them
<willvdl> will dig some more
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> RichEd, all sorted
<RichEd> 100's
<RichEd> send me the sample email ... i'll give them a listen ... also let me know what your thoughts are about extending changes to edubuntu
<cbx33> RichEd, you said to meet up again today regarding the ESA/pack idea
<RichEd> cbx33: meeting with willvdl face-to-face to flesh out a project plan ... that's moved to tomorrow ... will update you with framework when agreed & then will add ESA in as Task#1
<RichEd> will be adding Burgundavia & tuXlabs Edubuntu choice as Task#2
<RichEd> in the meanwhile, for yours, can you think of the respective audiences we need to target ?
<RichEd> short & sweet versions to:
<RichEd> 1) school IT admin
<RichEd> 2) school teacher
<RichEd> 3) education department decision maker
<RichEd> ??
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll have a think
<cbx33> are you talking about seperate versions to those audicences? targetted?
<cbx33> the main point of the ESA was for it to be useful to all groups, but we could possibly pull out some sectiosn and add others
<RichEd> i would say 1) general ... full version
<RichEd> 2) 2 pager (i.e. 1 double side) quick read for each audience
<RichEd> where each 2 pager refers to links to:
<RichEd> a) the full doc ... in a format that can be printed on site
<RichEd> b) the short versions ... in a format that can be printed on site
<RichEd> i.e. if someone responds well to the short version (ideal for conference hand-out) they are able to print & distrubute & thereby evangelise for us when they get back to home turf
<cbx33> ok sounds good
<cbx33> When ESA first started, the sections were titled with questions, do you think this is appropriate for the school teacher/decision maker targetting?
<RichEd> lets get the main version complete and agreed to by all ... then we need to examine the value equation = buttons to push for each audience type
<RichEd> it is important to address the issues that affect them ... those are what they will respond to
<RichEd> general hypotehetical question & answer may not be a effective
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> RichEd, true
<RichEd> 'lo again highvoltage : can we try for that meeting tomorrow ?
<cbx33> hi ogra 
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<RichEd> (i've got to take my son to the physio ... so i'll be on a long lunch hour today)
<willvdl> 3G...way of the future :)
* willvdl wonders why they call it Fraudband
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<ogra> pong
<cbx33> ogra, how is scp development
<ogra> nonexistent
<cbx33> I was going to setup an edubuntu server system here so I can work on it
<ogra> i'm working on local devices 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll try and jump in on some
<cbx33> can I ask a question
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> I have my router acting as a DHCP server at the mo, which I am reluctant to stop 
<cbx33> is there a way to tell a client to use a specific DHCP server?
<cbx33> or do I have to start looking into using virtual networks on vmware?
<cbx33> only trouble is I want one machien to be a real machine ....see how complicated this gets?
<ogra> get two NIS
<ogra> *NICs
<cbx33> yeh, I suppose that's the only way
<cbx33> and the only trouble I only have one here
<cbx33> ogra you got two secs in a pm?
<ogra> make one act as dhcp client at your router and the other one as thin client dhcp server
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> I'll borrow one from work tomorrow
<ogra> shoot
<rodarvus> gcj is rocking my planet
<rodarvus> due to gc brokeness, apt-get wants to remove about 12 packages during dist-upgrade :)
<ogra> fun :)
<rodarvus> s/gc/gcj/
<rodarvus> also I'm unable to read my emails since last Friday
<ogra> evo ?
<rodarvus> yup
<rodarvus> I've seen seb128's email yesterday
<ogra> did you try to upgrade only the vo related packages ? 
<ogra> *evo
<ogra> that meant only that evo ftbfs through firefox breakage
<ogra> shouldnt affect end users
<ogra> the evo packages are often out of sync during devel releases
<rodarvus> no, evolution is broken due to libnss3 being rather different since firefox 1.5
<rodarvus> seb128 was unable to recompile evolution (ftbfs) and could not find and fixes until now
<ogra> but there was no evolution upload since the firefox one ...
<rodarvus> s/and/any/
<ogra> it cant be linked against the new libnss3 yet
<rodarvus> yes, because evolution fails to build :)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> ogra, you know you said about indexing on the usplash image ??
<cbx33> is there any doc/person who knows about it
<ogra> ubuntu-art :)
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ogra does this apply to us https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/ChangeUsplash
<ogra> cbx33, really, no idea ...
<ogra> there were a lot of changes in edgy 
<cbx33> who would know where we are with usplash
<ogra> ubuntu-art
<cbx33> lisa wants to redesign it, but we need to know techinical constraints
<ogra> they know it ...
<ogra> or mjg59 for deeper tech knowledge
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> ogra, is ubiquity faster to install that d-i ?
<ogra> in edubuntu, yes ...
<ogra> indeed
<highvoltage> where would ubiquity be slower than d-i?
<pygi> ogra, care to promote libburn and stuff? I need testing for libburn-over-cdrecord layer
<pygi> meaning altought apps think they use cdrecord, they use libburn
<cbx33> sorry I'm just using the edubuntu shipit cd, and noting the difference in install times between that and the ubuntu one
<highvoltage> pygi: wow, that sounds cool
<pygi> highvoltage, :)
<highvoltage> cdrecord is really painful
<pygi> highvoltage, indeed, but perhaps never we'll have a solid replacement
<highvoltage> :(
<pygi> highvoltage, I am not skilled enough to implement fine-grained stuff in libburn, altought I will implement stuff that I am able to, ofcourse
<pygi> and contributors are mostly non-existant (altought we have few people interested in libburn)
<highvoltage> i previously thought that there was a big group of people working on libburn, and that it would naturally eventually replace cdrecord :(
<pygi> highvoltage, the libburn development was stopped two years ago
<highvoltage> geepers :/
<pygi> highvoltage, so that's why I need promotion ^_^
<highvoltage> yeah
<DrkLrd> hi guys
<DrkLrd> its ajayc here
* pygi directs highvoltage to http://libburn.pykix.org
<DrkLrd> finally am showing off edubuntu at our school science exhibiton
<DrkLrd> someone will surely notice
<DrkLrd> :)
<DrkLrd> sup pygi 
<pygi> DrkLrd, fighting with libburn stuff ^_^ 
<DrkLrd> lol
<DrkLrd> now i am ready to contribute
<DrkLrd> exams over
<DrkLrd> yipeeee!!!
<DrkLrd> and first step to distribute edubuntu and ubuntu cd
<pygi> eh ^_^
<DrkLrd> and showcase edubuntu excellently at school exhibition
<DrkLrd> any tips?
<DrkLrd> sorry
<DrkLrd> missed it
<DrkLrd> ah so any tips?
<DrkLrd> pygi, ?
<DrkLrd> ogra, ?
<pygi> DrkLrd, who are you trying to impress? :)
<DrkLrd> everyone :D
<DrkLrd> and to do something for edubuntu
<DrkLrd> and not be a freeloader :D
<RichEd> willvdl: you dere ?
<willvdl> yip
* RichEd is wrapping an email thread ... (SchoolTool) ... and will be ready to chat after getting some coffee in around 10 mins
<RichEd> okay with that ?
<willvdl> okie. shall we pm?
<pygi> RichEd, not for you :P
<RichEd> yep ... will ping you here and hive off ...
<willvdl> 10-9-8-
<DrkLrd> no tips? :(
<RichEd> pygi: pray explain that comment ?
<pygi> RichEd, eh, nothing, sorry :)
<RichEd> DrkLrd: i can help ... when do you present ?
<DrkLrd> edubuntu
* RichEd makes a note that darklord is now willing to pay for software (and not be a freeloader)
<RichEd> :)
<DrkLrd> pay? never mate
<DrkLrd> linux rocks!
<DrkLrd> though linspire sucks
<DrkLrd> i will get that work done
<RichEd> why does linspire suck ? just interested
<DrkLrd> tell me how do i get actively involved in edubuntu
<RichEd> <RichEd> DrkLrd: i can help ... when do you present ?
<DrkLrd> RichEd, CNR and its commercial
<DrkLrd> RichEd, maybe in 2 weeks
<DrkLrd> got it! http://www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu
<RichEd> okay ... bit of a rush then ... and where ? CNR <- wot's dis den
<RichEd> and whats the difference between CNR and "and showcase edubuntu excellently at school exhibition"
<DrkLrd> notin
<DrkLrd> i just said linspire sucks cos it has CNR
<pygi> DrkLrd, we have klik!
<DrkLrd> pygi, i know mate ! that is why CNR sucks!
<DrkLrd> ok what about participating actively?
<RichEd> so whats CNR ... please deacronmyate into laymans english !
<DrkLrd> i see edubuntu has less no. of users here
<RichEd> where is here ?
<DrkLrd> RichEd, its a paid service for Applications and various packages
<DrkLrd> #edubuntu
<DrkLrd> :P
<pygi> RichEd, http://www.linspire.com/cnr_router.php
<pygi> "our" counterpart: http://klik.atekon.de/
<RichEd> okay ... now I understand what you are saying, but don't baste "the evil brush" around too widely :) income is needed for actual work to make the economy go around ... but that is a big topic to tackle now ...
<RichEd> right .. let me lay out a quick plan :)
<cbx33> ping rodarvus 
<RichEd> DrkLrd:  give me 5 mins to wrap my email thread & get a coffee
<rodarvus> cbx33, pong
<willvdl> before he pings me :)
<RichEd> willvdl: give me 15 minutes to harness DrkLrd to the Edubuntu yolk
<cbx33> rodarvus, how much you know about scp?
<rodarvus> little
<RichEd> DrkLrd: I'm the new Education Programme Manager ... I am very intersted in helping you to help us ... deal ?
<rodarvus> ogra wrote it
<cbx33> I know, just wondering if I'm ok to develop on dapper
<willvdl> hmm, linspire screenshots look pretty
<rodarvus> cbx33, quite probably, unless you're going to depend on any edgy-only feature
<rodarvus> such as local devices support
<cbx33> no yet I'm not
<rodarvus> cbx33, best to coordinate your efforts with ogra, though
<cbx33> yes I was but then he went awol :p
<rodarvus> to make sure you two won't be doing the same thing at the same time :)
<cbx33> ogra has done nothing...he already told me :p
<cbx33> hence why I'm trying to help out
<cbx33> he's too busy with local devices
<rodarvus> nice
<RichEd> DrkLrd: right mail is wrapped ... getting my coffee ... can we move to a pvt window ?
<rodarvus> we have a spec (under review I think) for scp
<rodarvus> have you looked there, already?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> I'm fixing a few bugs first
<rodarvus> nice
<cbx33> crikey edubuntu is FAST in vmware
<RichEd> hi rodarvus : haven't said a decent hello to you today :)
* RichEd steps towads the kettle
<rodarvus> RichEd, hi there :)
<rodarvus> I need to make a test locally (which can possibly crash my machine)
<rodarvus> so if it happens in the next 20-30 minutes, you know why :)
<RichEd> willvdl: damn ... gotta go out for a collection - 30 mins ... can we shift to 4:00pm ?
<willvdl> no problemo
<willvdl> gives me time to get my spreadsheet neater :)
<cbx33> ogra, pm about scp :p
<sbalneav> Morning all!!
<sbalneav> ogra: Hey, dude, got your email!  
* ogra has a *very* bad day today ...
<ogra> totally annoyed
<sbalneav> Whats up?  Not with me, I hope? :)
<sbalneav> Whats up?  Not with me, I hope? :) <-- Don't know wether you caught that before logoff :)
<ogra> sbalneav, no, indeed not with you, but i seem not to be able to type more than one sentence without my network completely dying
<ogra> seems all wlan routers went mad here over night
<sbalneav> Ooh, that's a bummer.
<willvdl> it's Monday, don't be so hard on yourself :\
<ogra> well, its nearly 4pm, i havent done *any* work yet ... cant get my mail and want to have ltsp localdev done by thursday
<sbalneav> can you mail out? Send me what you've got.  I'll work with you this week and give you a hand.
<ogra> i'm not hard to myself ... but i'm near trying to accelerate that linksys AP to lightspeed to see what happens if it hits the wall
<ogra> sbalneav, ther is nothing to work on atm, we need pitti aboard to get the pmount patch in ...
<ogra> gnome-vfs is no option because it would restrict us to gnome
<cbx33> ogra, pmount for unionfs?
<cbx33> he keeps doing that :p
<sbalneav> I think it's his router that keeps verlassending things :)
<sbalneav> wb :)
<cbx33> ogra, your net connec tio nseems bad today
<cbx33> so deso my space bar
<ogra> sbalneav, we need to discuss it with pitti (which is quite hard for me without being able to type more than a few sentences)
<ogra> sbalneav, did you try the bind mount ` 
<ogra> ?
<sbalneav> ogra: How would the sudo bit be handled?  Would we put something in sudoers that would require no password to be entered, or when a user plugs in a memory stick, would it need a password?
<sbalneav> ogra: I'll play with it today/night
<sbalneav> brb, work ping...
<sbalneav> would adding it to pmount make it so that the user wouldn't need to do a sudo?
<sbalneav> would adding it to pmount make it so that the user wouldn't need to do a sudo?
<sbalneav> Poor Ollie
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> we dont want sudo 
<sbalneav> right.
<sbalneav> Want me to talk to pitti?
<ogra_> try it :)
<sbalneav> okie
<ogra_> as i said, he wants it to be a gnome-vfs change
<ogra_> but then we cant support KDE/XFCE
<ogra_> would not be a real upstream solution :)
<RichEd> ping willvdl 
<willvdl> pong
<jsgotangco> hi!
<sbalneav> morning jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hi scott!
<sbalneav> ogra: ok, so suid scripts it is.
<ogra> well, yes
<ogra> i'm not really happy with the fact that we need one ... but there is no way around it seems
<sbalneav> That's ok, solves the problem.
<sbalneav> You know that the colours orange and yellow make you hungry, right?  That's why fast food places all use those colours.  If you've got an orangey office, I predict lots of snacking while coding :)
<ogra> well, its a security issue we always have to regard
<sbalneav> yeah, this is true.  No strcpy's allowed.
<ogra> i'd have preferred to have it included in pmount, so it gets pittis attention every release automatically
<ogra> but we cant force him :)
<cbx33> ogra, do you konw if there is any chance of loop mounting getting included in pmount?
<cbx33> so i could use it in gisomount
<ogra> unlikely 
<ogra> same security probs as bind mounting has
<RichEd> willvdl: did a window open up with some mesages from me ?
<ogra> but you could steal the wrapper we will have to write for ltspfs
<sbalneav> ogra: how's your mad C coding skilz?  Want me to code the wrapper?
<ogra> and just replace --bind with --loop ;)
<ogra> i'm very bad in C
<sbalneav> ok
<ogra> its enough to write patches but my code usually is horrible
<sbalneav> I can do it.
<willvdl> RichEd: are my replies not getting to you?
<ogra> btw, tel me why you think that ldm in C would have a smaller mem footprint 
<ogra> *tell
<Amaranth> i thought you were making a shell script
<ogra> we still need to keep the theme in memory
<RichEd> nope ... let me close & open another window
<sbalneav> So, we want a ltspmount --add and --remove /tmp/somemount to /media/somemount, yes?
<willvdl> I think it's my gaim client
<ogra> Amaranth, there are no such things like suid shellscripts ;)
<ogra> sbalneav, we can hardcode the /tmp/somemount part
<ogra> and we shuld use hidden dirs in /tmp ...
<cbx33> ok ogra thanks
* cbx33 is catching up on the edubuntu minutes
<ogra> btw, the vfs'es support subdirs in /media
<Amaranth> i've got a couple right here...*men in black with swords* aaaaaaah *silence*
<cbx33> I swaer I'll never get this far behind again
<willvdl> I'm getting yours but mine aren't going through...
<sbalneav> ogra: how?  we don't know what the device is going to be called? when it gets plugged in?
<ogra> so i'd suggest /media/$IP/device
<RichEd> ahhh ... i'm using XChat have you got that loaded ?
<willvdl> using Gaim. must be myclient
<ogra> sbalneav, huh ? indeed we know what its called if udev calls ltspfs
<willvdl> lemme jsut give you a call. cell OK?
<Amaranth> ogra: so, i'm starting to think pre-training willowng is a bad idea
<sbalneav> ogra: argh!  Can't type fast enough.  What's your phone #, I'll just call you.
<ogra> sbalneav, voip ?
<sbalneav> nah, landline.  not me paying for it :)
<ogra> mom
<sbalneav> work lets me (ab)use the phone for LTSP purposes.
<ogra> i need to look it up :)
<ogra> +49 561 521 74 83 (i think)
<sbalneav> I can talk much faster than I can type :)
<cbx33> can I ask
<cbx33> who here actually reads/uses the Edubuntu Meeting Minutes?
<ogra> me if i need to look up stuff its easier than reading the log
<ogra> and i guess the guys from the weekly newsletter
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll keep on doing them then, they are just pretty time consuming
<cbx33> just wondered if people actually used them
<cbx33> thanks ogra 
<ogra> well, i personally could use the log ...
<ogra> but i dont know about the UWN guys
<cbx33> ogra if it makes it easier for you :p
<cbx33> I'm going to try to get them done same day now
<cbx33> I do apologise for my slack approach
<cbx33> ogra did I miss your reply to my question about developing scp on dapper?
<ogra> no, really, i'm fine with reading the logs
<ogra> but talk to the UWN guys
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> is dapper ok for scp development for now?
<cbx33> or would edgy be preferable?
<ogra> dapper is not ok for *any* development
<ogra> we dont develop for dapper anymore ;)
<cbx33> ok
* cbx33 prepares to update his edubuntu server to edgy
<ogra> note that the current ltsp-build-client doesnt run any of the ltsp-update-* scripts atm
<ogra> you need to run them manually
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> this is gonna take a while ;)
<cbx33> esp on a vmware machine
<cbx33> thanks ogra :p - now "everyone" thinks I'm a dolt :p
<ogra> heh, sorry 
<cbx33> I'm j/k
<cbx33> ogra, expect some scp updates tonight, I'm hoping to put my few bug fixes into my branch and start working on some of the specs if I get time
<ogra> great
<sbalneav>   Look at me.  Now I can do japanese smileys too!
<ogra> hehe
<cbx33> w00t
<cbx33> ogra, when do you think gisomount will make it into universe?
<sbalneav> ok, gotta head off and buy some ups batteries. be back later
<cbx33> or grasynco?
<cbx33> c ya sbalneav 
<ogra> isnt it in the NEW queue ? 
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33>  	2006-07-17 23:10:06 BST
<ogra> and which archive admin did you ask to promote/review it ?
<cbx33> none?
<cbx33> I wasn't told I had to
<cbx33> it was approved on REVU
<cbx33> and moved into the NEW queue, from there I was under the impression I had to wait till someone was able to do it?
<cbx33> is that wrong?
<ogra> well, usually the person who uploaded cares but if they dont, poke one of the archive admins to review it
<cbx33> is there a list of those anywhere?
<ogra> i.e. Keybuk
<cbx33> is this process documented?
<cbx33> the whole uploading to universe for the first time thing
<ogra> no idea
* cbx33 thinks he'll go make one
<ogra> but if, then it should be on the developer resources wikipage
<cbx33> it's a very confusing process
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> ogra, sorry another question
<cbx33> you know in a meeting a while back you said ESA should be translated on rosetta?
<cbx33> how would one go about doing that?
<ogra> i think contacting the doc team would be a good start ... i belive you need to have it in docbook first
<cbx33> it is in docbook :p
<cbx33> it's in the docteams svn repo too
<bddebian> Howdy
<cbx33> hi bddebian 
<cbx33> deja vu ?
<bddebian> Hello again cbx33 ;-)
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:albgeist] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing
<cbx33> Mr LaserJock Good AfterNooooooooooon
* cbx33 stops singing
<LaserJock> hehe
<sbalneav> Back, with $150 worth of new lead acid cells.
<LaserJock> heh
<Petaris> sbalneav: New laptop battery then?
<Petaris> haha
<sbalneav> No, new batteries for the UPS on our database server :(
<Petaris> ahh
<Petaris> only $150?
<Petaris> nice
<sbalneav> Yeah, the trick is not to buy lead acid cells at a computer shop.  We've got a shop here in town that deals in nothing but batteries: automotive and industrial.  They've got the batteries at about 1/2 the price that a computer shop would charge.
<LaserJock> oh, good idea
<Petaris> cool
<sbalneav> hey, a 6v 12ah cell's a 6v 12ah cell.  They're all the same :)
<ogra> my UPS has these standard batteries they use in remote controlled models ...
<ogra> a stack of them ...
<ogra> but its quite cheap to replace them  :)
<sbalneav> ogra: OK, I've started in on the mount wrapper (in amongst the bits of my regular 9-5 job).  I'll have it completed by tonight.
<ogra> WOW !
<ogra> i'll jump on the cdpinger tonight or tomorrow
<ogra> btw, after 8h playing music, my client was using 115 MB for no apparent reason ... 
<ogra> then dropped down to 50M againg
<ogra> and 10 mins later died 
<sbalneav> did top show anything?
<sbalneav> Were you running it, or just using free?
<ogra> my usbdisk is ext3 and a saw kjournald juming up and down in top, but without any signifacnt mem usage
<ogra> i'm running top constantly on tty1
<ogra> but there is absolutely *nothing* there 
<sbalneav> weeeird.
<sbalneav> ok, I'll poke about a bit tonight.
<ogra> all i cant think of is that the journal grows in memory or something ...
<ogra> i sadly dont have a second usb disk here atm
<ogra> else i'd try with a vfat fromatted one
<cbx33> pin ogra 
<ogra> ouch
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> um, I just did a dist upgrade, and now gdm won;t start
<cbx33> just thought I'd let you know
<cbx33> I also can't view the output
<ogra> oh, why is that ? 
<cbx33> because the ncurses screen is all strange
<cbx33> gonna try a dpkg-reconfigure
<ogra> all strange ? 
<cbx33> strange characters and no readable text
<cbx33> I'll do a screen shot if I can;t reconfigure
<ogra> i suspect if you look into the recent Xorg.log in /var/log/ you will find that the font "fixed" cant be found
<ogra> but thats only a rough guess :)
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> xserver-xorg is broken or not fully installed
<cbx33> ok got it working
<cbx33> needed a forced reinstall of xserver-xorg
<ogra> that shouldnt happen i guess, rodarvus ?
<rodarvus> no, xfonts-base was fixed earlier this week
<rodarvus> to make sure this problem won't happen
<rodarvus> this is triggered by an upgrade of xfonts-base before xfonts-utils is fully setup
<cbx33> when i did the reinstall it did say something about the /etc/X11/X had been modified and wouldn't be replaced
<ogra> well, there must have been another issue ... 
<cbx33> I would say I'll test it again, but it's taken 5-6 hours to get to this point :p
<ogra> did you have any errors in the first upgrade ? 
<ogra> before you ran the manual one with --reinstall ? 
<cbx33> well X wouldn't start and came up with a funny ncurses screen
<cbx33> on trying to start it again manually same thing happened
<cbx33> then I did the dpkg-reconfigure, and it said xserver-xorg was broekn or not fully installed
<cbx33> that's when I did a manual reinstall of xsedrver-xorg
<ogra> i mean during the upgrade
<ogra> not afterwards
<cbx33> didn't see one
<cbx33> brb
<cbx33> 10 - 15 mins
<rodarvus> /etc/X11/X had been modified and wouldn't be replaced <- not an issue actually
<rodarvus> cbx33, try doing a "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xfonts-base" to see if it fixes your problem
<rodarvus> . o O ( hmm, a few funny warnings here )
<cbx33> ***GAH*** what's happened to usplash
<pygi> cbx33, broken :)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> i'll say
<cbx33> gnome panel seems broken too
<cbx33> cliking on applications doesn't yield a very pretty sight
<cbx33> but system and places are ok
<sbalneav> ogra: ping, still awake?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ogra is always awake, as far as I know
<sbalneav> He's a man on a mission.
<sbalneav> I'll see if he's in -devel
<cbx33> grrrr, what culd be wrong :(
<LaserJock> cbx33: oh, is Applications flickering?
<cbx33> yes that's one thing
<LaserJock> cbx33: go to /etc/xdg/menus/ and remove the bad link to the debian menu
<ogra> sbalneav, pong
<cbx33> w00t thanks LaserJock 
<cbx33> you certainly know your stuff :p
<LaserJock> only cause I had the same problem
<sbalneav> hey
<ogra> whats up ?
<sbalneav> ogra: What "standard" direcory in /tmp do we want to mount to for the ltspfs mount? /tmp/.uid-ltspfs/mountpoint?
<ogra> sounds sensible ...
<sbalneav> i.e. /tmp/.sbalneav-ltspfs/my_usb_stick?
<ogra> we could also do /tmp/.clientip-ltspfs/mountpoint
<ogra> but thats bigger effort
<ogra> no, tkae the real ID
<ogra> i.e. /tmp/.1000-ltspfs/my_usb_stick
<ogra> its invisible anyway
<sbalneav> oh?  not the named id?
<ogra> so it doesnt matter, but we likely should distingush by user 
<ogra> so forget the clientip stuff :)
<ogra> well, the UID is as easy to get as the username, pick as you like ;)
<ogra> i can adjust the scripts here ...
<sbalneav> okeydokey, will do.  I'll go by the name.  More "intuitive"
<ogra> as i said, nobody will see it apart from us :)
<sbalneav> OK, *I* find it more intuitive :)
<sbalneav> lol
<ogra> heh, ok :)
<sbalneav> I'm about 1/2 done.
<ogra> wow
<ogra> youre impressive ... did i ever tell you ? 
<sbalneav> Yes!  But I always enjoy hearing it again.
<bddebian> heh
<ogra> :)
<sbalneav> I am also exceedingly good looking, and a connesuer of fine wines and food.  You forgot to mention that as well.  Please do not make this mistake again :)
<sbalneav> However, spelling is not my strong suit.
<ogra> one at a time :)
<cbx33> ogra, getting a permission denied on a client booting
<ogra> ??
<cbx33> on my new edgy box
* ogra needs to go downstairs again asap 
<sbalneav> drat, someone, what's the correct spelling of conneseur?  I could google it, but that's cheating.
<ogra> it think with ai
<cbx33> sbalneav, google it, ogra will never know :p
<ogra> connaiseur
<sbalneav> Ah, that looks closer.
<ogra> cbx33, i'll be back later, you need to be a bit more descritive ;)
<cbx33> mount failed:
<cbx33> nfs mount
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll try and figure it out
<cbx33> I ran the ltsp-update-sshkeys
<cbx33> I figured it out
<cbx33> inthe upgrade it replace the exports file
<sbalneav> oooh.
<sbalneav> I just realized a snag
<sbalneav> crumb.  How to get out of this one :(
<sbalneav> errrm
* sbalneav thinks furiously
* cbx33 turns the handle
<cbx33> can we make it so the grub entries read Edubuntu in Edgy?
<cbx33> fixed :D
<cbx33> bzr is bloody broken in edgy
<cbx33> what is this thing in edgy where I get funny quotes marks
<cbx33> and I have to type the qutes button twice and they are not the right quotes
<cbx33> ogra, rodarvus ?
<cbx33> sorry for being stupid
<rodarvus> cbx33: in what application?
<rodarvus> (or you mean everywhere)
<cbx33> everywhere
<cbx33> happens with the tilde key ~ too
<cbx33> I went to type ~ogra
<cbx33> and got a tilde or could have been an umlaut over the o?
<cbx33> yeh happens with all vowels
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<sbalneav> OK, heading home for the afternoon.  Be on later tonight.
<cbx33> ling Laser_away 
<sdfsaedcjhm> hi
<mhz> hi sdfsaedcjhm 
<sdfsaedcjhm> wassup
<mhz> not much, just getting rid of spams :(
<sdfsaedcjhm> ah
<sdfsaedcjhm> you work in edubuntu?
<cbx33> mhz, heheh darn those spams
<mhz> cbx33: hehe, indeed, esp. the ones about Viagra stuff
<cbx33> hehaha
<mhz> sdfsaedcjhm: if by work, you mean, I try to evangelise and contribute as much as possible, burning lots of hours a week on this... well, yes, I do.
<LaserJock> lol
<sdfsaedcjhm> ah
<sdfsaedcjhm> kool
<sdfsaedcjhm> whats difference between edubuntu and the other ubuntu distros?
<mhz> sdfsaedcjhm: however, most of the stuff i do benefit the spanish speakers users of edubuntu 
<LaserJock> default apps are more kid oriented, themeing is more kid oriented, and LTSP
<pygi> sdfsaedcjhm, there is no such thing as "ubuntu distros"
<sdfsaedcjhm> ah
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette
<LaserJock> sdfsaedcjhm: all the flavors, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu are all part of the same project really
<LaserJock> they share the same software repositories
<mhz> sdfsaedcjhm: basically, Edubuntu is oriented towards a) School Labs, b) Schools wanting a cool distro for their students, c) parents happy with edu apps.
<LaserJock> it's mostly the look and default applications that makes the difference
<sdfsaedcjhm> ah
<mhz> oh, and if you want an LTSP environement just out of the box...Edubuntu does it for you
<sdfsaedcjhm> whats LTSP
<LaserJock> Linux Terminal Sever Project
<LaserJock> www.ltsp.org
<LaserJock> very cool stuff
<sdfsaedcjhm> ah
<cbx33> ping LaserJock 
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/finals/
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> oggs at last
<sdfsaedcjhm> hehe
<lucasvo> cbx33: nice!
<cbx33> hehe
<mhz> cbx33: i have done an edubuntu wallpaper and style for fluxbox
<cbx33> nice
<mhz> do you fluxbox?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> not usually
<mhz> Liverpool!
<LaserJock> cbx33: haha, I'll get .ogg on this thing so I don't get you in any more trouble
<LaserJock> :-)
<cbx33> hehe
<sdfsaedcjhm> kool
<cbx33> I'm still trying to get sabdfl to listen to them
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> what with the ff problem and all
<sdfsaedcjhm> im waiting for my edubuntu cds to arrive
<LaserJock> cbx33: do you have a nvidia card by chance?
<cbx33> indeed I do
<cbx33> y?
<LaserJock> I was thinking of upgrading a box to edgy
<cbx33> ahhh
<LaserJock> ATI isn't in the best shape it seems in edgy
<cbx33> well, I wouldn't know
<LaserJock> but this box has an nvidia card
<cbx33> whether nvidia worked or not
<LaserJock> so I wondered if it work
<cbx33> because mine is a vmware box
<LaserJock> really? what's it running on?
<cbx33> what do you mean?
<cbx33> the vmware machine uses a vmware driver for graphics
<LaserJock> what is vmware running on
<cbx33> dapper
<cbx33> not their packager
<LaserJock> hmm
<cbx33> downloaded from source
<cbx33> :D
<Petaris> later guys
* mhz gotta log off from ciber :(
<pygi> bye mhz 
#edubuntu 2006-08-15
<mhz> bytes
<bddebian> Hello
<gotama> Help! How to get the boot messages on ltsp client? (shell 2)
<ajay_> RichEd, sup
<cafuego_> gotama: Edit the pxeclient.cfg/default file and remove 'splash quiet' from the boot params.
<gotama> Thanks
<gotama> I am having problems with a sound card (cmi8738)
<gotama> When i boot the client the messages are to fast to be read.
<gotama> Do you have any idea?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock!!!
<bddebian> Hello sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello bddebian!
<sbalneav> Yawn.  Time for bed.  Night all.
<pygi> Burgwork, poke
<jsgotangco> RichEd: i got your email
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<RichEd> hi jsgotangco ... am still googling for stuff ... but not so easy to find (have found quite a lot by book activists saying reading is better !)
<RichEd> harry potter activisits :) also crusading against tv & playstation 
<jsgotangco> RichEd: yeah its pretty hard, we're going to align now what's in the E Media program and what we have in Edubuntu
<jsgotangco> but the key is for edubuntu to complement existing curriculum
<jsgotangco> or develop a module if needed
<RichEd> jsgotangco: i've been tasked (yes more) to look at LAMS ... and helen (of the TSF and email) as put me in touch with the australian originator ... you familiar with LAMS
<RichEd> has put me <-
<jsgotangco> RichEd: yeah I'm familiar with LAMS, although honestly i forgot about it!
<jsgotangco> jeezz
<jsgotangco> but this is more suited for group collaboration
<RichEd> semantics comment: "the key is for edubuntu to complement existing curriculum"
<jsgotangco> yeah? we can't disrupt the curriculum
<jsgotangco> and most of these teachers aren't really computer-savvy for starters
<RichEd> "the key is for edubuntu to allow /facilitate suitable applictions & content to complement existing curriculum"
<RichEd> edubuntu will never be in the business of content
<RichEd> but must allow sutaible content to be located, accessed, and managed
<RichEd> is the curriculum defined anywhere ?
<RichEd> documented ?
<RichEd> okay - mail time ! - will send some links to you if i find any to academic improvement through it docs
<RichEd> and parting note for now, we also need to create a framework for peer-to-peer teacher collaboration ...
<RichEd> i.e. if one teacher finds content or an application that works well towards curriculum goals, they need to be able to rate it and share it
<RichEd> part of the medium term plan
<ajay> RichEd: sup
<ajay> RichEd: its DrkLrd here
<RichEd> hello ajay: got your mail open, just dealing with a high-priority enquiry for the boss.
<RichEd> i've got a plan for you, which i will send to you by email soon (next hour or two) ... will you be around to chat ?
<RichEd> jsgotangco: the view shared with mark was that "a biology teacher is best equipped to help another biology teacher"
<RichEd> TSF has been doing research in how peer collaboration can be effective, and how to initiate it
<ajay> RichEd: okies
<ajay> RichEd: i will be here mate
<RichEd> so we need to make a collaboration space teacher friendly, and then get come champions to get on board
<RichEd> e.g. we've been discussing how mail lists suit techies ... but forums a preferred by lay people
<RichEd> but as above, need to get busy now ... just popped my head back here for a sec.
<jsgotangco> RichEd: not at all, we're (edubuntu) is not going to create content
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<RichEd> 'lo will ... head buried in emails ... but hi !
<Burgundavia> hey RichEd
<RichEd> 'lo Burgundavia 
<RichEd> willvdl: meet Burgundavia 
<RichEd> Burgundavia: meet willvdl 
<RichEd> Have a quick tuXlabs Case Study chat while I am busy elsewhere :)
<jsgotangco> cool
<Burgundavia> RichEd: ok cool. Too bad so much else has come up (getting ready to go to LWE right now)
<RichEd> Burgundavia: willvdl  & I will do a lot of the work for you ... managing the process as we have dedicated focus ... so you can just be nudged for input & advice & comments
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<Burgundavia> given my life might be about to change rather radically, that is good
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: ?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: I am currently looking at all kinds of options in the very near future
<jsgotangco> "all"
<Burgundavia> some might involve significant amounts of time away from the computer and Ubuntu
<jsgotangco> i see
<Burgundavia> nothing is set in stone yet
<jsgotangco> im about to enter in a very complex chapter in my career so it seems too
<Burgundavia> certainly not about to abandon Ubuntu and Linux permanently
<RichEd> jsgotangco: if the move works out for you ... then Helen is a good person to get to know !
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: where are you planning to move to?
<jsgotangco> RichEd: its rather complicated, the foundation has a no-computers policy to age 9 below
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: I agree with that idea
<jsgotangco> so the focus is highschool
<RichEd> jsgotangco: no problem with that ...
<jsgotangco> besides most stuff in kde-edu are complicated for kids
<RichEd> i let my kids have very selected access ... even though there are 4 - 6 PCs in my house, they are lucky to get 4 hours a month
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: with a very very influential foundation over here by the biggest media company
<Burgundavia> very nice
<Burgundavia> my parents made me "earn" computer time, by spending time outside, on a 1:1 ratio
<Burgundavia> something I bitched about at the time but will do if I ever have kids
<jsgotangco> we're not even aiming 1:1 probably 2:1 or 3:1 worse
<jsgotangco> but the program should result in haveing improved student performance in math and sciene
<willvdl> My father was only too happy to dive into the things. He needed someone inhouse to explain it to him
<willvdl> Hi folks, busy morning..
<jsgotangco> wow rodarvus is now in planet!
<cbx33> pin g ogra 
<ogra> pon g cbx33 
<cbx33> I've fixed the bugs in scp
<cbx33> working on the spec today
<cbx33> almost finished the kill process part
<cbx33> I have a branch registered on LP if you want to merge at any time
<ogra> cool 
<ogra> !
<ogra> i'll look at it during the day :)
<cbx33> ok np
<ajay> RichEd: ?
<RichEd> yes DarkLrd ajay ?
<ajay> lol
<ajay> RichEd: u said u wanted to talk
<RichEd> can you give me 15 mins ? will send you the email background, and then we can chat.
<ajay> sure
<ajay> hey tuxboy17
<tuxboy17> hi ajay 
<ajay|AFK> bbl
<ajay|AFK> enjoy tuxboy17! talk to people there are really nice guys here mate
<cbx33> hi tuxboy17 
<tuxboy17> hi cbx33 
<tuxboy17> :)
<RichEd> hi ogra
<RichEd> can you clarify for my understanding here: " Only xchat will be in main.  Xchat-gnome is being moved to universe for Kubuntu" & "I've been told that it'll happen starting with Edgy"
<RichEd> can I assume that main is the same across Ubuntu / Edubuntu / Kubuntu & same for universe ?
<RichEd> if not, where can i brush up on mu understanding
<Burgundavia> RichEd: yes
<RichEd> schweet ... Burgundavia :)
<Burgundavia> main/u/multi/restricted refer to the repos, which are common across X/Edu/K/Ubuntu
<Burgundavia> ogra: we moving x-g out and xchat back in?
<RichEd> Burgundavia: that's a thread i picked up on in #xchat this morning
<cbx33> Burgundavia: Yes Please
<Burgundavia> RichEd: odd, cause x-g was moving into main for dapper and xchat to universe?
<Burgundavia> cbx33: yes please?
<cbx33> on the moving of xchat back in
<Burgundavia> both are crap, tbh
<RichEd> this thread all started for me when i was using xchat under win and when i moved to ubuntu, i started asking dumb questions about why the interface was suddenly so kak
<Burgundavia> GNOME has a troubled history with irc clients
<RichEd> then discovered that a "fresh user like me" would be let to beleive that the xchat he searched for and installed was the real deal
<RichEd> led to believe
<RichEd> and only when i checked [x]  unsupported applications did the xchat search reveal the xchat option as well as xchat-gnome
<RichEd> found myself in the middle of a big debate ... some say xchat-gnome is easier for the rookie to learn ... most say xchat has a superior interface and is more intuitive ... and not much more difficult to come to terms with
<Burgundavia> both have issues
<Burgundavia> both have nice features
<RichEd> so that is the end user perspectrive (from my experience) and although i did not motivate the bug request that i believe has led to the swop, i'm happy to see it
<Burgundavia> well, neither are installed by default
<RichEd> nope, agreed, but my initial search & install led me down the unexpected (did not want to say wrong) path
<RichEd> as a matter of interest, is there an equivalent of xchat-gnome under windows ?
<Burgundavia> mirc?
<RichEd> (because i am speaking as a windows convert ... and that is a big part of our target audience)
<RichEd> so we want the old experience to match the new experience
<Burgundavia> right
<RichEd> xchat-gnome does not look or feel like mirc under windows
<Burgundavia> have you seen what Userful do with DiscoverStation, to match the windows interface?
<Burgundavia> I personally hate it, but it is an idea, if we want to go down that path
<RichEd> the lack of permanent channel user window was my biggest b!tch
<Burgundavia> indeed
<RichEd> and in IRC terms, no permanent channel user window is a buit like flying blind ... who's here, who's away, who's ops
<Burgundavia> the x-g people have their own ideas about things
<RichEd> nope ... haven't seen userful ... got a link or ref ?
<Burgundavia> let me find you one. Our (Userful's) website is a mess
<RichEd> tx.
<Burgundavia> RichEd: http://www.softpedia.com/screenshots/DiscoverStation_3.png
<Burgundavia> http://www3.userful.com/images/devices.gif
<Burgundavia> with menu open
<RichEd> Burgundavia: forgive me if this is a dumb question, but doesn't that look pretty much like Kubuntu (and Kubuntu is imho a very slick'n'sexy look'n'feel) ... what is difference in goal ? (apart from the KDE apps)
<Burgundavia> DiscoverStation is for public computers, like tuxlabs or in libraries
<Burgundavia> it is GNOME, but hacked to look like Windows
<RichEd> 'lo nexu :)
<nexu> hi
<RichEd> okay Burgundavia point taken ... lay person question : from a dev point of view, how difficult is it to "lay a new menu skin" on top of say Edubuntu (more ...)
<RichEd> i.e. same apps under the desktop, but different menu layout, i.e. different tree groupings of shortcuts, but pointing to same executables ?
<RichEd> or is this what userful is ?
<RichEd> the reason i ask is that a sidebar conversation with sabdfl at one point went into the possibility of a teacher switching all desktops into GRADE 1 view ... where the apps / content now appeared under a subject tree arrangement
<ogra> Burgundavia, ??
<ogra> RichEd, hi
<RichEd> and then when the next class arrive, switch to GRADE 3 ... etc.
<RichEd> hi ogra ... send a mail to matt re hack fest ... additional inforamtion he was not aware of in a #canoncial chat ... should support your "application" for approval
<RichEd> information <- inforamtion
<ogra> i think he already agreed
<ogra> at leats thats what jammcq told me
<ogra> he also said he's not sure if he can come himself, i havent heard anything different yet
<RichEd> okay ... in my log search this morning, you last said you had still to ask ... my mail to matt was around whether he would be there so we could have a 3 way
<ogra> (because you mentioned to meet him)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> we all would love to see him there ;) honestly :)
<RichEd> we spoke about that in #canonical, and he was more interested in trying to make a plan after he heard about the expanded attendee list
<ogra> ah
<RichEd> so my nudge may rock him over and in
* ogra reads scrolback in #c
<RichEd> cc'd you on the email ... still only an outside chance he will come, but it is now floating higher in his priority list
* ogra smiles about "original fedora ltsp" :)
<ogra> i think they dont even have any "official" package for it :)
<ogra> thats why its so important to have them there ... they shall adopt the ubuntu model ;)
<RichEd> to avoid me embarrasing myself in front of the honourable matt ... what's the 10 second explanation for the difference between red hat & fedora ... w.r.t. LTSP ?
<ogra> and he's right, it will be *very* close to release ... i'll have to do a lot of edubuntu work alongside while we're there
<ogra> fedora is a community driven project 
<RichEd> i've done a wiki on the two ... but want LTSP specific points
<ogra> redhat grabs their work, puts the commercial stuff on top and rebrands it 
<RichEd> so did fedora community help with LTSP, or RedHat organisation ?
<RichEd> it was jim who started in no ?
<RichEd> started it, no ?
<ogra> (well thast a bit harsh explained but essentially what they do)
<ogra> LTSP was never in fedora or redhat
<ogra> if you wanted to install it, you hade to grab premade packages from ltsp.org
<ogra> eric was the guy who merged redhat and ltsp to become k12ltsp
<RichEd> but the LTSP that jim started (ltsp.org) originally worked with redhat o/s ?
<ogra> (with added edu apps and many additional scripts)
<ogra> yes
<ogra> they did their development on top of redhat
<RichEd> and redhat is linux, and now LTSP is moving to debian, which is our core
<ogra> and offered rpm packages on ltsp.org
<ogra> but to my knowledge it was never integrated into redhat/fedora
<RichEd> rpm ? the last rpm i heard was 33 and 45 and 72 (vinyl days)
<ogra> eric is the key part here, since he pushed for integration, found people who had the same inerest etc to get it ready for redhat
<Burgundavia> ogra: wondering about xhcat and x-g in main and universe, that is all
<Burgundavia> RichEd: red hat equiv to .deb
<ogra> s/redhat/redhat based distros/
<ogra> rpm = redhat package manager
<RichEd> ahhh
<Burgundavia> also used by SUSE and Mandriva, amongst others
<ogra> Burgundavia, but you mentioned it as a decision of kubuntu ...
<ogra> (xchat)
<Burgundavia> no, I didn't, riched
<Burgundavia> it
<ogra> ah, yes
<RichEd> here: <Hawkwind> RichEd: Heh.  I filed a wishlist bug 2 days ago on Launchpad about xchat being put into main for Kubuntu instead of xchat-gnome.  I've been told that it'll happen starting with Edgy
<ogra> well, as long as nobody steps up to maintain x-c, i guess we'll have to live with x-g in main 
<RichEd> from #xchat 300 mins ago
<RichEd> 30 mins
<ogra> thats weird
<ogra> i wouldnt see a reason wh kubuntu would pull gnome software to main :)
<ogra> *why
<ogra> they have their own IRC proggy ...
<ogra> (konversation)
<ogra> seb128 maintains it, and afaik he is in favor of xchat-gnome ...
<ogra> but he might have reconsidered
<nexu> is there no xchat package maintainer atm ?
<nexu> i though evo is doing it
<ogra> there is no specific xchat maintainer for ubuntu main atm
<nexu> hmmm how can i become one
<nexu> there are several small issues with the debian/rules of xchat .deb atm
<ogra> become a motu (see #ubuntu-motu for it) and work a while in universe ...
<nexu> yeah i'm in the motu
<Burgundavia> nexu: first you get a chicken
<ogra> after some time working with motu you can apply for main maintainership 
<nexu> Burgundavia: lol ? i'll just go to KFC man
<Burgundavia> nexu: that isn't chicken
<nexu> Burgundavia: i would believe you if i was going to the chinese
<nexu> ogra: ok
<Burgundavia> RichEd: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-dynamic-menus
<ogra> i'm not sure this one will make it ...
<RichEd> Burgundavia: echoes of our conversation :) if not for inclusion now ... good to know topic is open
<Burgundavia> RichEd: it has been talked about for a while
<RichEd> ogra: a great enquiry this morning ...
<RichEd> <paste-start>
<RichEd> The indicative number of machines distributed in 2300 public schools and running on Linux by the end of 2008 is 30.000. We are looking forward to at least 3 year contract with attractive conditions for upgrade and technical support, that might include FLOSS center, mirror download sites, etc.
<RichEd>  <paste-end>
<RichEd> in the running: Suse, Mandriva and Ubuntu
<RichEd> off the table: fedora
<Burgundavia> I see no advantage to Mandriva over either Suse or Ubuntu. It offers neither the most up to date software, nor the most stable
<ogra> where is that ?
<nexu> RichEd: in which country is taht?
<ogra> Suse is a commercial product ... 
<nexu> mandriva doesn't even offer free version anymore afaik
<nexu> ogra: there is opensuse.
<Burgundavia> opensuse is too crackful, with no clear roadmap
<nexu> well, thats why its open :)
<RichEd> yep ... russian region ... don't want to throw specific client info about in a public channel
<nexu> its like  a playground for NLD
<Burgundavia> much like Fedora
<nexu> well kinda
<RichEd> 1st prize i think for the client is free s/w but paid support
<nexu> fedora has more strict guidelines tho
<RichEd> which puts us up in the top rung
<nexu> well, personally i think mandriva is quite overpriced
<RichEd> thining around propose: ubuntu hosting web, mail, f/w, cache, mirror etc. - commercial support contract with montreal
<RichEd> thinking 
<ogra> s/ubuntu/canonical
<ogra> ;)
<RichEd> and edubuntu in schools - need to come up with a new support arrangement with montreal, maybe rope in highvoltage for some classroom level suport ?
<ogra> ++
<RichEd> i.e. build a model for the new contract type
<RichEd> will be working on a mail to bizdev people ... ogra & rodarvus will be in the lop
<RichEd> nice test case to build a proposal, identified target, identified competitors, large scale, moral support for the software founded by the cosmonaut
* jsgotangco listens
<Burgundavia> well, off to catch my flight
<Burgundavia> cya all
<rodarvus> good morning
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: hey!
<maning> hello! new here.
<ogra> morning rodarvus 
<ogra> jsgotangco, you have wite access to the website, right ? 
<rodarvus> hey jsgotangco, ogra :)
<jsgotangco> ogra: i believe so, i dont remember...
<jsgotangco> ogra: i think some parts yeah
* jsgotangco has to remember his credentials
<ogra> elom just said there is a typo somewhere 
<ogra> <elmo> ogra: "Many people around the world excercise this right." ==. exercise
<jsgotangco> i got 2 emails about typos
<maning> Hello? Is Pysycache http://www.pysycache.org/en/index.html included in the edubuntu dapper distro?
* jsgotangco checks
<ogra> doesnt look like anyone has packaged it
<ogra> but there is a debian sourcepackage on the website, so it should be possible for some fellow mou
<ogra> *motu
<maning> it looks cool for very young kids in learning how-to-use mouse much like some of gcompris.
<jsgotangco> ogra: what page is that? im in the cms now
<ogra> jsgotangco, good question :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<ogra> front page
<maning> this is also cool! http://www.matemania.no/matemania_m/index2.html 'though I can't understand a thing.
<jsgotangco> fixed
<ogra> thanks !
<jsgotangco> im looking for the other typos
<jsgotangco> heh! it's all highvoltage's typos!
<jsgotangco> :D
<highvoltage> more typos? :(
<jsgotangco> heh its alright
<jsgotangco> wish those who emailed said directly where it is though
<jsgotangco> just sent email fo thanks to those who spotted
<jsgotangco> meh
<jsgotangco> front page has 328,000+ views
<ogra> nice !
<highvoltage> we should have a party when it's 1000000
<jsgotangco> top page after homepage are screenshots
<jsgotangco> that's a good thing :)
<ogra> yeah
<jsgotangco> ill do cleanup later
<jsgotangco> we'll have to do new screenshots as well
<ogra> as soon as we have seen some new artwork :)
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> laterz
<ajayc> RichEd: u there?
<RichEd> yep ... did you get my mail ?
<ajayc> yups thanks mate
<RichEd> does it make sense ? it could be a small start, with a high profile success for all of us if we can make progress
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<sbalneav> ogra: pingie 2
<sbalneav> ok, gotta get ready for woek, be on later.
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<RichEd> hello mr schooltool :) nice to see you
<RichEd> just sent you an email 10 mins ago
<RichEd> highvoltage: either you were ignoring me or you timed out on me ;) i have a window full of talking to myself
<highvoltage> RichEd: it seems like it's the latter
<highvoltage> RichEd: can you copy.paste it again in that window?
<RichEd> will do ... bit of a ramble, but can you give me 5 mins now to get some things across
* ogra is away for 1h or so ... i have a code review for sbalneav ready in case he shows up before ...
* RichEd -> 1 hour lunch errands
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<cbx33> finished kill on scp
<cbx33> with auto refreshing proc list too :p
<highvoltage> cool :)
<cbx33> working on vnc next
<cbx33> I need some bzr advice
<cbx33> I have a branch
<cbx33> which I publish via rsync on the net
<cbx33> I now have another machine and I want to work on the same branch
<cbx33> so two machines working on the same branch
<cbx33> with it being published via rsyncing to a web server
<cbx33> any ideas?
<bimberi> cbx33: you might recall me mentioning "the cacophony of the playground" last week - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSounds
<cbx33> bimberi, yes
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<ogra> sbalneav, pong
<ogra> pitti did a code review 
<ogra> so we have the first of many iterations until it suits him :)
<sbalneav> Oh, cool.  I liked the way he did the spawn in his pmount, so I "stole" it :)
<sbalneav> Well, sure.  What's he suggest?
<ogra> many things :)
<ogra> he starts off with missing gpl/copyright statement :P
<ogra> then we shouldnt have the i18n stuff in the headers ... sinc ewe dont/wont use them in such a backend proggy
<ogra> the usage message needs to use %s instead of %d
<ogra> he doesnt like the {become,drop}_root() functions at all ... we shall either drop them completely or only use them for the getopt
<sbalneav> Oh, did I get a %d in there? heh, typing too fast.  Didn't check the useage message :)
<ogra> well, most stuff is trivial ...
<ogra> fork() shudl rather be pid_t pid = fork()
<sbalneav> Well, we NEED to become root to make the directory and do the mount.
<ogra> between execl and exit of the mount command there should be a perror
<ogra> no, we are root already, the binary is suid root, isnt it ;)
<sbalneav> heh, well, if he doesn't like that bit, he should look at pmount/utils.c where I stole it from :)
<ogra> so we *could* drop privileges *if* we fix the {become,drop}_root() functions, but we could leave that out completely as well he said
<ogra> same fork() comment for the unmount stuff 
<ogra> in main() is a declared but unused int len = 0
<sbalneav> just becase the binary's got the setuid flag set, doesn't mean you've become root.  It just means you can RAISE your privs.
<ogra> yep
<ogra> but uid will be 0 
<ogra> (no sure if we'd need to raise euid 
<ogra> )
<sbalneav> and this will be running as the user, correct?  So the userid will be non-root.
<sbalneav> gimme 2 secs, work ping
<ogra> case 'u' should have umount = 1 instead of umount++
<ogra> and the "unknown option" string is missing the actual option :)
<ogra> for: if (optind < argc) he asks if it shouldnt be < argc-1
<ogra> he asks for s/PATH_MAX/sizeof(mediamount)/
<ogra> (everywhere)
<ogra> according to him thats more robust 
<ogra> we should check pwent->pw_name for slashes
<ogra> and we shouldnt chown the dir we create, mount will make it inherit the ownership from the /tmp mount 
<ogra> thast it 
<ogra> not much for a typical pitti review ;)
<ogra> (he's a nitpicker, but thats why he is our security guy)
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> oh, and he promised to do the next review in english, so i dont need to translater everything :P
<ogra> *translate
<ogra> i can write a patch during the day if you want that fixes most of the complaints ...
* ogra wonders if sbalneav fell over by that sheer amount of complaints for a 100 line code snippet 
<sbalneav> nah, no problem, gimme 10 minutes, I'll fix things up.
<ogra> i know pittis reviews are quite shocking mostly :)
* ogra remembers having to do five or six iterations of a 30 line hal addon he once wrote, pitti had more and more complaints ...
<cbx33> ogra the bzr repo is updated and kill functionality added, but beware the working tree that is on the page is not updated
<cbx33> ogra, the proclist updates too :p
<ogra> cool
<cbx33> even when you have selected a process
<cbx33> the updates keep happening
<ogra> without cncelling the selection ? 
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> *cancelling
<ogra> nice !
<cbx33> I knew you were gonna ask that
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> I wondered why you didn't have an updating list
<cbx33> then I tried it and found out why
<ogra> well, thats usual behavior for gtk lists
<cbx33> but I got round it
<cbx33> I hope
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> sure, you can get around it ... but part from the userlist populating (which is totally broken) it was all WIP
<ogra> *apart
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> well take a look when you have a sec
<ogra> will do
<cbx33> if you're happy with my work, I'll have a go at completing the spec
<cbx33> wit ha little help
<ogra> the spec is complete 
<cbx33> implementation
<ogra> its pending approval until mdz has some spare time to look over it and approve it
<cbx33> ah i see
<cbx33> I made a quick hack on my version so I could test it with me logged in without an ltsp server
<cbx33> my virtual machine has gone all woogy
<cbx33> all the network interfaces are broken
<cbx33> and I don;t know why
<cbx33> right I'll brb switching machine
<sbalneav> ogra: ping again
<ogra> sbalneav, pong :)
<sbalneav> hey hey
<sbalneav> OK, I've got just about everything done, except the suid stuff.
<sbalneav> I'm unclear as to how I should be doing it.  I mean, I need to be able to raise privs, so I'm not sure how he expects that to work.
<sbalneav> Heh, I wasn't expecting you to submit it so fast, I hadn't given it a once over yet. :)
<sbalneav> let me mail you what I've done...
<sbalneav> Whoops, still don't have a gpl thing in there.
<sbalneav> meh, I still need to package.
<ogra> damned, my net seems to go flaky again
<sbalneav> did you get my last 4 lines?
<ogra> yep
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> just sent it.
<ogra> just gets tons of DUPs while pinging my router
<ogra> but it seems not to break completely
<ogra> pitti wrote:
<ogra> Das bringt nix. Normalerweise willst Du die reale uid lassen und die
<ogra> effektive auf root setzen. Allerdings muss fuer den mount()-Aufruf
<ogra> sowohl die reale als auch die effektive uid 0 sein.
<ogra> i'll try to translate it literally 
<ogra> (referring to become_root())
<ogra> that doesnt help. usually you want to keep the real uid and set the effective one to root. for the mount() call you will need to have both set to 0 though
<ogra> also for drop_root():
<ogra> Dito. BTW, Du weisst, dass drop_root() vielleicht 
<ogra> Programmierfehler aufdeckt, aber das Programm keinen Deut 'sicherer'
<ogra> macht, ja?
<ogra> same as for become_root(), but you know that dror_root() probably exposes programming errors but makes the program not more secure at all ?
<ogra> *drop_root() indeed
<ogra> does that make sense to you ? 
<ogra> when i taled directly to him he said we could as well drop both these functions
<ogra> *talked
<sbalneav> OK, so if I get what he's saying: only promote the euid for the mkdir, and just the real uid only for the mount call.
<ogra> no, both for the mount call
<ogra> but we wont need the euid for mkdir
<sbalneav> Drop the functions?  What, and just inline the calls to setuid?
<ogra> well, only the mount call
<sbalneav> We wont need the euid for mkdir?
<ogra> according to him we dont ( i didnt try :) )
<sbalneav> Ah, pitti's answeing me in the channel.  I'll ask directly
<cbx33> what does it mean when I do a networking restart and it says error, no such device
<cbx33> it was working fine yesterday morning
<cbx33> these are two vmware machines
<LaserJock> cbx33: cool,re scp
<cbx33> heheh
<sbalneav> ogra: get my "shake shake shake" mail? :)
<LaserJock> lol
<RichEd> hello LaserJock :)
<lecaros> hi all
<RichEd> how's the light shield kilt ?
<jsgotangco> light shield kit?
<ogra> HAHAHA
* ogra wipes some tears from his eyes 
<sbalneav> You laughing at my lyrics or my code? :)
<ogra> not your code indeed
<ogra> :)
<LaserJock> RichEd: hi
<RichEd> js ... i presume a LaserJock doe not wear normal tartan ... i'm guessing he needs something stronger to protect his weaponry ;) 
<LaserJock> RichEd: yes, exactly
<RichEd> LaserJock: just a tickle to let you know that Burgandavia & I were chatting about custom menus earlier ... and your name came up ... along with a link ref: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-dynamic-menus
<RichEd> it's something i have ben specualating about for a while now, and glad to see it is becoming a reality
<RichEd> been not ben
<LaserJock> heh, well hopefully it will become a reality
<LaserJock> it's not as trivial as I thought ;-)
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> its not really as simple as it looks
<ogra> well
<jsgotangco> but KDE makes it very very easy!
* jsgotangco hides at ogra
<ogra> i think you worked it out quite well already 
<ogra> its just that i wont have the time to implement it ...
<ogra> (for edgy)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<cbx33> ogra, do you have any info on the vnc stuff for scp?
<RichEd> no specific actions ... must wanted to let you know i think it is an important offering from a classrom perspective ... but needs to be done in such a way that we can give the framework & format to the teacher / department, for them to configure themselves.
<ogra> but we'll do one less spec for edgy+1 and keep that one ;)
<RichEd> which is probably your thinking already ... first to admit i am joining in at the end of a thread here
<ogra> yes, it needs a gui tool
<ogra> but thats the least of the problems
<LaserJock> well, I'm going to play around with .menu files and see what we can do
<ogra> doing the actual merge stuff if a student is in different groups etc is the hard part
<RichEd> ogra: or an easy intuitive text edit ... like an xml tree ?
<ogra> never !
* RichEd steps back in case it gets ugly
<ogra> we dont want our teachers to see the commandline if possible :)
<RichEd> was about to say: lots of free GUI editors to edit XML trees
<ogra> (indeed thats whishful thinking as long as we dont have things like ltsp-manager in place ..)
<RichEd> (well played with many in windows)
<sbalneav> ogra: is ltsp-manager targetted for edgy?
<ogra> but if its avoidable with a 100 line proggy the time to quickly write it should always be there
<ogra> sbalneav, i initially did, but i dont think i'll make it ...
<ogra> too much on my plate
<sbalneav> Can I help?
<LaserJock> ogra: what tool will teachers use to assign students to groups?
<ogra> mdz ust made a call that we should give a realistic estimate which specs we can finish in time for sept 7th (feature freeze)
<ogra> i'll surely have to drop some
<cbx33> ogra, is this including scp?
<jsgotangco> great pressure!
<ogra> no
<ogra> scp will be on my list
<cbx33> because it hasn't been approved?
<cbx33> no i meant to get done in time
<ogra> as well as swapserver and the ldm enhancements
<cbx33> like a reset button in ldm :p
<ogra> localdev should be done by the end of the week (i hope)
<ogra> cbx33, it doesnt matter if it got approved before ... if its implementted and approved at release time /freeze time, all is fine
<ogra> scp is high prio
<ogra> i cant drop high prio targets
<sbalneav> ogra: if you mail me what you've got so far, I'm keen to help with whatever you need to get the job done.
<RichEd> thilly thimple IRC question: if i want to meet with 2 other people on IRC tomorrow, how do we make our own channel / shared message window
<ogra> sbalneav, apt-get install ltsp-manager or apt-get source ltsp-manager
<sbalneav> just /join #your-own-channel
<LaserJock> Sept. 7th is Feature Freeze?!?
<cbx33> ok, well if you give me all you got on vnc i'll try to get that moving, exec too
<ogra> the actual feature (lts.conf editing isnt implemented yet)
<sbalneav> Do I need an edgy machine for it?
<ogra> and the gui isnt adjusted to the new features we have 
<ogra> its written on dapper 
<RichEd> ta sbalneav :  thought it might be that easy, but wasn't sure ... didn't want to make an arrangement unless I knew I could host.
<ogra> so it should work on both ... the differences will only be in the package dependencys, shouldnt affect the code
<sbalneav> ok, don't seem to be able to install it in dapper, not there.  So I'll have to grab it manually from the edgy archives.
<LaserJock> ogra: when is the disto sprint?
<ogra> its in universe in dapper
<ogra> LaserJock, starting monday
<sbalneav> ?
<sbalneav> hm
<LaserJock> ogra: hmm
<ogra> sbalneav, 
<ogra> err
<LaserJock> ok, I'll try to do an edubuntu-dynamic-menu sprint at the same time ;-)
<ogra> i *thought* i uploaded it 
<ogra> heh
* RichEd is out for 15
<ogra> sbalneav, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
<sbalneav> ogra: got the bzr archive.  I'll hack some tonight.  As well, have you got the cdpinger stuff in hand, or do you want me to hack on that tonight as well?
<ogra> i'll do it
<ogra> got it on my list for this evening
<bddebian> Howdy
<sbalneav> How is it you request ops again in a channel here in freenode?  I'm on the ops list, and I'm about 2 seconds off of wanting to kickban an annoying prat in #ltsp, but I can't remember how I gain ops and kick someone (since the last time I had to do it was 5 years ago :))
* mode/#edubuntu [+o ogra]  by ChanServ
<ogra> sbalneav, 
<ogra>  /msg chanserv op #ltsp
<sbalneav> ah, then what, /kickban #someguyfrombrazilwhoswearstoomuch?
<ogra> phew
<sbalneav> If he does it again, I'll give him one warning, then I toast im
* mode/#edubuntu [-o ogra]  by ogra
<sbalneav> ooops.
<sbalneav> Godlike powers there for a sec?
<sbalneav> :)
<ogra> well, i had to try it :)
<ogra> i have no clue about the commands for kick or ban, but xchat has a context menu for every user in the list ;)
<ogra> but he seems clamed now
<ogra> *calmed
<bddebian>  /kick <foo>
<ogra> well, i usually dont need to :)
<bddebian> C'mon, kick me harder ;-P
<sbalneav> oops, what's deop?
<sbalneav> it's not deop :)
<ogra> -op ?
<ogra> (right click yourself in the userlist ;) )
<ogra> there is an action menu
<sbalneav> meh, it'll go away when I log off.
<sbalneav> Let the green dot be his warning....
<sbalneav> OF DOOM!
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> cbx33, 
<ogra> CONGRATS !
<ogra> Subject: 	Accepted gisomount 1.0.1-0ubuntu1 (source)
<ogra> Date: 	Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:15:18 -0000  (19:15 CEST)
<cbx33> w000000000000000000000000000000t
<cbx33> finally
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> ogra, gota a spare sec to discuss scp?
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> I've done kill
<cbx33> was going to take a look at vnc or execute
<cbx33> do you have any background info, or shal I start scouring the web
<ogra> the vnc code should be usable as is if you just remove the comments
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> what else is there to do with vnc?
<ogra> the thin client side... see the spec
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> x11vnc needs an optional initscript in the package ...
<cbx33> ah ok
<ogra> then someone needs to determine the network load with it running on an ltsp connection
<cbx33> right
<ogra> and find useable defaults
<ogra> try the code, i'm not sure in which state it is
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> and what about execute
<ogra> but it worked at some point ... 
<cbx33> I was just searching the web
<cbx33> for some solutions
<cbx33> but couldn't find anyting useful
<ogra> execute ? 
<cbx33> yeh
<ogra> what d you mean ? 
<ogra> *do
<cbx33> Execution of programs in the users session(s)
<cbx33> are is then intetnion that it will load on all desktops?
<ogra> did you read the spec ? 
<cbx33> yes reading now
<ogra> it has come code snippets and a very detailed description of the implementation
<cbx33> yes I can see
<cbx33> ok, I'll go have a look and see what I can get working
<cbx33> I take it the listener service is not built yet
<ogra> nothing is built yet
<ogra> in that area
<cbx33> is there a restriction on the language used to writ the listener service?
<ogra> i think there is a hidden execute button in the ui
<cbx33> yes there is
<ogra> it should be python since the rest of scp is python as well
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> so using python-dbus
<ogra> and dbus/python is a perfect pair
<ogra> yeps
<cbx33> ok I'll investigate
<pygi> cbx33, sending movie over dbus is always a good idea
<ogra> only if its raw data ...
<pygi> :)
<ogra> cbx33, if you want some code example look at the willowng source, its very clean
<cbx33> ok
* cbx33 foudn a tutorial on dbus-python bindings too
<ogra> yep, thats very good as well
<Amaranth> sending movie over dbus == every other dbus user will stab you
<pygi> Amaranth, nah ^_^
<ogra> i guess before your desktop just dies :)
<pygi> eh ^_^
<cbx33> 0_O
<cbx33> so, the main scp package sets up a dbus connection
<cbx33> and leaves messages in the "bus"
<cbx33> then the client machines make connections to that particular bus, and receive the messages, only if they are addressed the them?
<cbx33> am I getting this?
<cbx33> they talk about methods in the tutorial
<ogra> no
<ogra> there are no "machines" involved
<ogra> everything runs locally on the server
<pawsilver> Hi I get this message when reloading in Synaptic Package manager "E: Malformed line 22 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list (dist)
<pawsilver>  E: Unable to lock the list directory"   help????
<sbalneav> pawsilver: Can you paste your line 22 in file /etc/apt/sources.list?
<sbalneav> Maybe it just needs a touchup.
<sbalneav> pawsilver: Still there?
<pawsilver> hi there
<pawsilver> I found a source generator on Ubuntu and paste the source in the etc/apt/source.list
<pawsilver> Its working thanx
<sbalneav> K, np
<Petaris> I seem to have broken my gksu/gksudo some how, any one know if there is a good way to fix it?
<Petaris> for example, is there a hidden file/dir in my home dir that I can blow away to reset it or something?
<Petaris> I did an ls -al in my home but didn't find anything telling
<sbalneav> ogra: Still awake, oh mighty Teutonic Open Source Warrior?
<cbx33> sbalneav, TOSW heheh
<cbx33> ogra, i didn't mean machines in that sense
<ogra> sbalneav, whats up ?
<sbalneav> hey!  before you trundle off for the night, can you tarball what you've got for the localdevs stuff, so I can play with what you've been doing?
<ogra> sure, i'll have to fix some small stuff still, after the TB meeting ... dont worry, i'll be around long tonight
<sbalneav> I sent off the program to you and pitti.  Later tonight I'll properly "gnuify" it with an autoconf etc.  
<cbx33> ogra, did you say there was dbus in willowng?
<cbx33> ah i see it
<cbx33> sorry was looking in the willowng
<cbx33> it's in willowng-config
<Amaranth> the server is in willowng, the client is willowng-config
<cbx33> Amaranth, where does the server do it's dbus stuff, 
<cbx33> bear in mind I'm VERY nerw to dbus
<cbx33> got some pointers?
<Amaranth> cbx33: that would be dbusinterface.py :)
<Amaranth> <random>Why does applying for aid for college have to be so complicated?</random>
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> Amaranth, you're a genius they should be paying you to go
<Amaranth> :P
<Amaranth> I just promise not to correct the teacher too much and he gives me at least a C whether I do work or not. ;)
<pygi> Amaranth, lol
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> Amaranth, do you have a few seconds?
<cbx33> could I pm you?
<Amaranth> err, sure
<cbx33> pygi, gisomount is in universe :D:D:D
<pygi> congrats cbx33 
<cbx33> first app/package
<ogra> sbalneav, which is the final version, the one attached to the dance mail ? or the one before ? 
<sbalneav> The dancing email
<sbalneav> :)
<sbalneav> It works for me
<cbx33> ogra, just a quickie
<cbx33> presumably user logins, I'll call them clients, will poll the dbus for new events?
<cbx33> ogra, I'm goign to start on the dbus code tonight, I understand it now, pretty easy really
<ogra> sbalneav, oh, i just see pitti answered
<ogra> cbx33, the client app should be started by gnome session and listen for the events that come down the users session dbus 
<cbx33> ah right ok
<sbalneav> ok, looking now.
<cbx33> I'm going to start by programming the server dbus 
<cbx33> with the four messages in the spec
<cbx33> is there docs anywhere on how to iface with the users session dbus?
<ogra> scp runs as root and sends the events to the *system* bus which then forwards them to the session busses of all selected users
<cbx33> yup I get it now
<sbalneav> Ah, I see his point on the umount.  Okeydokee.  I can fix that.
<cbx33> I just need to know how to interface with the session bus and I should be able to complete that bit
<sbalneav> ogra: for now, continue on with the scripting, and I'll address Martin's (excellent) points.
<ogra> cbx33, well, a lot of apps do it ... so it shouldnt be to hard to find out ... theer is also a link to the dbus spec
<cbx33> ok thanks
<ogra> hal does it, NM does it
<sbalneav> it shouldn't change the normal mode operation of the program, we're only addressing failure mode.
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> ogra do you envisage sending an exec message followed by a notify message to say which machine the exec applies to?
<ogra> i'll adjust the scripts and the cdpinger ... will tar it up in the end ad upload to people.ubuntu.com
<cbx33> or am i misunderstanding the spec
<ogra> no machines involved ;)
<cbx33> ogra, ok CLIENTS :p
<cbx33> you know what I mean :p
<ogra> you send a user list as first message 
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> (the selection from the gui)
<cbx33> then and exec
<ogra> then a command 
<cbx33> or a kill
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> right
<cbx33> is the kill message supposed to be a replacement for the os.kill implemantion I did today
<ogra> if $USER is in the list, the client app waits for the next message ...
<ogra> ouch
<ogra> thats redundant
<cbx33> ogra is the user session dbus common to all sessions?
<ogra> it has a socket for each user
<cbx33> ogra, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, well it works as is
<cbx33> ogra, I was presuming the server would listen to the USER list and EXEC/KILL and then only post to the relevant users sessions socket?
<ogra> or it creates a socket for the session its started in is the better explanation 
<ogra> no
<ogra> scp just drops the message on the system bus
<ogra> it doesnt connect to any sockets
<ogra> the the client app must pick it up
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> i think I get it
<cbx33> I'll start experimenting
<cbx33> switching machine
<cbx33> brb
<sbalneav> Pitti's a smart dude.  I don't think another user can unmount someone else's dir because we're adding the userid to the mount, but it's a good point anyway, and we should do the check.  I'll add that stuff tonight.
<sbalneav> Okay Ogra you handsome devil you, I'm heading home to pick up the Kiddies, and make dinner.  I'll be on later, but I expect you'll be in bed by then.  We'll see you tomorrow.
<sbalneav> Good luck!
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<cbx33> one last question :p
<cbx33> remote_object = bus.get_object("org.designfu.SampleService", "/SomeObject")
<cbx33> iface = dbus.Interface(remote_object, "org.designfu.SampleInterface")
<cbx33> what's the difference between remote_object and iface?
<cbx33> because they then use methods from the same class
<cbx33> hello_reply_list = remote_object.HelloWorld("Hello from example-client.py!", dbus_interface = "org.designfu.SampleInterface")
<cbx33> hello_reply_tuple = iface.GetTuple()
<cbx33> hello_reply_dict = iface.GetDict()
<cbx33> are they just two ways of referenceing the methods in the class?
<cbx33> woohoo
<cbx33> I got dbus working :D
<ogra> :)
<ogra> and we have the coolest localdev implementation evah !
<pygi> ogra, congrats ;)
<ogra> i need to do some small adjustments as scott has to do as well on the suid wrapper and we're done :)
<ogra> next release i'll add audiocd support *g*
<ogra> the nice extra is that it will work on all desktops :)
<pygi> I hope to have libburn release ready in 15 days
<pygi> but I have a feeling that won't be the case
<cbx33> ogra, I have working scp server code
<ogra> libburn ate a lot of developers already
<cbx33> i just need to do the session interface
<ogra> cbx33, cool !!
<cbx33> I'm still a little stuck on that one
<pygi> ogra, hopefully not me ^_^
<cbx33> I'm going to include my examples in me bzr repo for now
<cbx33> whilst I'm testing and till it gets integrated
<ogra> pygi, i have a mail somewhere from 1999 where the initial developer asked if i would be intrested in helping :)
<pygi> ogra, nice ^_^
<pygi> We've made some good progress tho so :)
<ogra> at some oint mxpxpod took over libburn an coaster ... but never got it done either
<ogra> *point
<pygi> whoever that mxpxpod is :) coaster dissapeared ... there are no visible signs of it anymore
<ogra> yep, he dropped it
<ogra> we had an experimental package in universe in hoary i think
<pygi> I could use experimental package for libburn-on-cdrecord layer in edgy, but that's probably not doable :)
<pygi> and stable release won't be ready in time to include it (in 15 days)
<cbx33> ogra, do we basically pass a message to the session bus like "exec blah" and it runs it?
<ogra> well, its not urgently necessary that the client interface listens on the session bus, should as well be possible through listening on the system bus ... as long as the message gets through an the ACL is right 
<cbx33> even the system bus
<cbx33> I don't know how to interface with it
<cbx33> I'm just going to download network manager to see how it does it
<ogra> seen that ? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSounds
<ogra> there you got your overlay to mix into the ubuntu sound ;)
<cbx33> excellent
<cbx33> that'll be in my updates
<cbx33> :D
<ogra> :D
<cbx33> ok, ogra
<cbx33> I've connected to the system bus
<cbx33> but i still can't find the methods aarrgggghhh
<lucasvo> cbx33: what for do you use dbus for?
<Petaris> later
<cbx33> I need to use it to execute a process on a users session
<cbx33> argh I gotta get to bed, 
<cbx33> if you know anything about it lucasvo a link to a tut would be great
<cbx33> petesavage@ubuntu.com
#edubuntu 2006-08-16
<bddebian> Hello
<sbalneav> Evening all
<ogra> sbalneav !
<sbalneav> ogra!
<sbalneav> Burning the midnight oil?
<ogra> heh, a bit 
<sbalneav> I was just going to address pitti round two, then start looking at ltsp-manager.
<ogra> we need to change your naming in /media
<sbalneav> Sure, what would you like?
<ogra> ogra2-cdrom wont be recognized by g-v-m
<ogra> make it /media/ogra2/cdrom
<sbalneav> Oh!  Will it "see" into subdirectories?
<pygi> ogra, you have a sec for me?
<sbalneav> Sure, easy peasy.
<ogra> sbalneav, yup, totally
<ogra> :)
<ogra> then we have the right icons
<sbalneav> gimme 5 five minutes.
<ogra> i'll have to rethink cdpinger
<ogra> :/
<ogra> since ltspfsd constantly triggers CDROM.CDROM_DISC_STATUS  ... 
<sbalneav> Want me to put some thought to that?  I had a couple of idears anyway.  I'll hash 'em out, try to get something something working.
<ogra> shouldnt be a big prob, i can check for CDROM_DISC_CHANGED
<ogra> but now that i got the current code working some funnny things started to hapen, like nautilus popping up a window everytime ltspfsd triggers the cd
<ogra> pygi, yep
<pygi> ogra, why would I get "/usr/include/libburn/0/libburn/" instead of normal "/usr/include/libburn/libburn"?
<jsgotangco> wow
<ogra> phew, no idea
<jsgotangco> you guys are still awake
<jsgotangco> heh
<pygi> ogra, this is bugging me :-/
<ogra> jsgotangco, hardly
<jsgotangco> you're all supposed to sleep
<jsgotangco> :D
<pygi> jsgotangco, 2:23 am
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> seems croatia is 1 munite ahead of me 
<pygi> jsgotangco, I can't sleep until I solve this, so ^_^
<ogra> *minute
<jsgotangco> i hear ya i've been there
<pygi> any solutions? 
<pygi> ogra, hehe :)
<ogra> not really, find out why the 0 is added :)
<pygi> o joy, will bug someone else later then :)
<pygi> once I wake up, I hope :P
<ogra> are you talking abou tthe package build or the compiler run ? 
<pygi> this doesn't have anything to do with package
<ogra> ok, so its the linking ...
<sbalneav> ogra: Do you want ltspmount to make the intermediate "/media/uid/" directory, or will the script do it?
<sbalneav> no, wait, I have to do it
<sbalneav> I'm the setuid one
<ogra> i'm fine leaving that to ltspmount
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> k, 
<pygi> ogra, oki, thanks anyway ^_^
<sbalneav> that will take.... more than 5 minutes :(
<ogra> oh, right ... you need to add a lot of checks :(
<ogra> hmm, easy ... the cdpinger just needs a check if /dev/cdrom is in /proc/mounts 
<sbalneav> smart
<sbalneav> ogra: ok, got it.  Haven't addressed a couple of pitti's concern's yet, but It works for testing.  emailing....
<sbalneav> sended
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> /proc/mounts doesnt help 
<ogra> i should stop for today ...
<ogra> indeed it gets unmounted by ltspfsd 
<ogra> so it doesnt show up in /proc/mounts
<ogra> sbalneav, how do you work around that problem in lbus ? 
<sbalneav> Well, in lbus, adding a cdrom doesn't actually do the mount.  When it detects MEDIA, then it does the mount.
<ogra> right
<ogra> cdpinger does the same
<sbalneav> then you keep checking media, and when the media goes away you unmount.
<ogra> hmm, i thought thats what i do as well
<sbalneav> so all cdpinger needs to do, i figure, is just idle on a cdrom, and when you see media, add it to /tmp/fstab, and kick off the mount
<sbalneav> So the UDEV part shouldn't add anything to fstab, but rather, when you detect a cdrom device, launch a cdpinger for it.
<ogra> udev doesnt touch fstab 
<ogra> not for cdroms
<ogra> cdpinger does everything cdrom related
<sbalneav> sure it does.  you touch any block device, yes?
<ogra> hmm
<sbalneav> or am I reading the rules wrong that keybuck gave us?
<ogra> no
<ogra> i'm wondering how to tell udev to exclude CDs here
<sbalneav> so, isn't there a sysfs{removable} or something that could help us?
<ogra> intrestingly udev did never pick up my cd here
<sbalneav> I can play with that here tonight.
<sbalneav> get some sleep, or you'll fall over.
<sbalneav> mail me what you've got so far, and I'll work with it.
<ogra> its currntly totally ripped apart 
<ogra> leave the cdpinger part to me ...
<sbalneav> so?  I'm good at jigsaws!  tar it up, dude, I'm here to help!
<ogra> no, i mean the code is unusable atm
<ogra> its in the middle of a shuffle ...
<ogra> i'd like to keep the overview in that one ... but i'll package the other stuff now
<sbalneav> ok, well, I'll play around and see if I can come up with some ideas.  I was going to address pitti's concerns tonight as well.
<ogra> i think essentially ltspfsd shouldt unmount cdroms ...
<ogra> *shouldnt
<sbalneav> well, that's easy enough
<ogra> its not needed
<sbalneav> quick modify to /sbin/ltspfs_mount script.  
<ogra> there will be no write operations unless we implemented burning over ltspfs ;)
<ogra> which i plan to do together with audiocd support 
<ogra> in edgy+n
<sbalneav> ah, well, that's for the next version.  By then we'll be all muekow, so it'll be easier.
<ogra> erm, if i modify the ltspfs_mount script that wont solve the frequent unmounting 
<sbalneav> sorry, _umount
<sbalneav> :)
<ogra> meh, i'm really to tired 
<ogra> indeed
<sbalneav> sleep, sleepyhead.
<sbalneav> Let uncle scotty play for a bit :)
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> ltspmounter dies if the dir in media exists ?
<ogra> ha !
<ogra> works !!
<ogra> gah
<ogra> unmounting doesnt
<LaserJock> \o/
<ogra> hmm
<LaserJock>  /o\
<ogra> why does the drive ignore fcntl.ioctl(f, CDROM.CDROM_LOCKDOOR, 0) if its mounted via ltspfs
<ogra> it works fine if i just fuse mount it
<sbalneav> Well, the ltspfsd isn't doing anything with ioctls at all.  It simply reads files under a directory.
<ogra> but apparently it blocks the tray
<ogra> i'm silly
<ogra> the /sbin/ltspfs_mount script would indeed need the ioctl now ...
<sbalneav> Ah, so you need to mount it nolock?
<ogra> got it, but it still doesnt unmount ...
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i really should go to sleep ...
<ogra> i just forbid ltspfsd to unmount cdroms ...
<ogra> indeed it cant unmount then :)
<ogra> sbalneav, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-localdev-scripts.tar.bz2 updated
<ogra> (beware, the cdpinger is very noisy (but works))
<ogra> its missing a check if the cd is really mounted before running the unmount commands ... i'll jump on that tomorrow
* jsgotangco thinks you should sleep
<ogra> will do so :)
<ogra> night all
<ogra> :)
<CrashTest> Hi all!  Can someone help me out with an OpenOffice Writer question?
<jsgotangco> sure but you'll probably get better replies in #ubuntu
<CrashTest> Cool, well I will ask there as well :)
<CrashTest> I am trying to figure out how to view "Comments" that exist in Word docs.  The "Comment" menu item in "Changes" is greyed out.
<jsgotangco> why does this thing look oversized :/
* jsgotangco kicks OOo2
<sbalneav> Snore.  Old man /me's getting tired.  Off to bed.
<sbalneav> night
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> morning, #edubuntu
<highvoltage> what's going on? #edubuntu is way too quiet today.
<willvdl> shhh, we'we huntin wabbits
<rodarvus> good morning
<willvdl> good afternoon
* willvdl does UTC to SAST conversion, looks at watch and chokes
<highvoltage> morning rodarvus and willvdl 
<rodarvus> hey willvdl, highvoltage 
<RichEd> hi guys ... been lurking while I cath up on other stuff
<rodarvus> hi RichEd 
* rodarvus is preparing himself to next week's developers sprint
<RichEd> rodarvus: will i get the OLPC status info from you soon ? i'd prefer to have it before we have our core meeting
<RichEd> even a high level one to start ... we can drill down when time permits
<rodarvus> RichEd, I wanted to have a formal plan before sending you this, but I can send a high level one in a few minutes if you want
<rodarvus> (doing that)
<RichEd> thanks ... we can then do a education core meeting tomorrow some time ... quick 30 mins
<RichEd> ( not a long session like ladt week :) i know you & ogra are both busy bees
<rodarvus> I believe I'll be able to have most (low level) stuff ready for the end of the day today
<RichEd> last <- ladt
<ogra> rodarvus, do you know when we have the distro meeting tomorrow ?
<rodarvus> ogra: yes, 23:00 UTC
<ogra> ah, k
<ogra> thats fine then
<RichEd> are we all on for the meeting tonight ? and will it need 2 hours ?
* RichEd is off to a meeting at my kids school ... 1 hour max
<rodarvus> RichEd, I don't think the meeting tonight will last two hours, unless one of you really has a lot to say :)
<RichEd> good ... was up 'till late with emails last night energy level is -----> low
* ogra guesses it wont even be 1h
* willvdl whips out typing-tutor to prepare for meeting
<ogra_> hmm
* willvdl sees double
<jsgotangco> ?
* RichEd sees backwards
<jsgotangco> RichEd: hi!
<RichEd> i think hit some strange key combo in Evolution ... when i type in the email it "writes backwards" as in "sdrakcab setirw" 
<RichEd> anyoje got any ideas what i did and how i odnu ?
<RichEd> anyone <- anyoje
<willvdl> Your keyboard is upside-down?
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> is that for real?
<RichEd> i must have selected chinese or jewish input ...
<rodarvus> yes, it looks like somehow you selected jewish input
<RichEd> yep ... no lies ... XTalk is fine ... evolution must be in a different language mode ...
<RichEd> let me open a new mail, and see if it is an individual mail or evolution wide setting ... i suspect latter
<RichEd> fine in a new mail ... strange ...
<willvdl> that is fascinating
* RichEd checks his "package" to see if it still has its "polo neck"
<willvdl> 1,2,3 yip, all there
<willvdl> googling "evolution" + "backwards" + anything else opens up a whole new can of worms
<willvdl> Is the change of CookBook to HandBook an _official_ name change yet?
<willvdl> i.e. one that reflects online?
<jsgotangco> honestly i do not know its status
<jsgotangco> speaking of which
<rodarvus> its official, I think
<jsgotangco> did we even have a meeting today
<ogra> jsgotangco, see the fridge :P
<jsgotangco> ugghh i tend to get confused with these UTC things lately
<jsgotangco> 4AM YAY
<willvdl> 10pm. hope I'm sober
<ogra> thats no essential requirement :)
<jsgotangco> ogra: honestly i feel i am out of the loop lately, but trying
<willvdl> noticing there are quite a few online cookbook references for changing....ug
* jsgotangco *sniff*
<ogra> willvdl, please talk to the cookbook team before changing any links etc ... only they know wats recent ... its a big chaos
<willvdl> oh, was not going to stick fingers in.
<willvdl> Just reading up on stuff and updating my bookmarks
<ogra> ah
<willvdl> I notice there's some duplication on www.edubuntu.org and wiki.edubuntu.org
<willvdl> which one will be used in the future?
<jsgotangco> well
<RichEd> willvdl: if you look at the personal wiki page for Matt Nuzum, he has noted things like TLD site duplication, and wants to build a search that goes across all possible TLDs 
<jsgotangco> the main site runs drupal
<RichEd> (in his new to the job task list observations)
<jsgotangco> and the wiki is moin that encompasses all the projects
<jsgotangco> so there's a disconnect
<willvdl> ah, thanks
* willvdl compares to ubuntu main site and clicks
<RichEd> ALL: I think that due to the sprint on the horizon next week, we'll keep the meeting short & sweet tonight for the sake of Oliver & Rodrigo. They can tell us what they are up to between now and the end of the Sprint. Followed by a short update from all of us. The rest of us will meet again next week, while the dev. boys are wrapped up in a coding frenzy in Chermany..
<jsgotangco> sure
<willvdl> okie
<RichEd> hi jsgotangco: didn't reply to your greeting ^^^
<jsgotangco> who is will van der leij?
<jsgotangco> ahhh
* jsgotangco ignore him
<willvdl> me
<jsgotangco> i mean ignore me
<willvdl> :)
<ogra_> willvdl, you need to create a wikipage and list your contributions and yu need to sign the code of conduct 
<ogra_> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<sbalneav> Morning all!
<jsgotangco> hi!
<sbalneav> hey jsgotangco!!
<willvdl> ogra: agreed. there are a few admin thingies I need to take care of still. Will do asap
<jsgotangco> wow we now have 12 planets
<ogra_> we have the universe (and the multiverse as well) :)
<sbalneav> ogra_: Hey, dude!  How's it goin' eh?
<ogra_> cdpinger done 
<ogra_> i'll start to rewrite th eserver side script in python later today
<ogra_> btw, no need to bind mount cdroms
<sbalneav> No?
<ogra_> gnome-vfs just picks them up, regardless wher we mount them
<sbalneav> Even in /tmp?
<ogra_> i spent my morning with digging for the reason why i always had 2 cdroms on the desktop :)
<ogra_> its likely a bug in gnome-vfs :)
<ogra_> even in /tmp 
<ogra_> or wherever you want
<sbalneav> I'd say.  I thing we should bindmount to media, if for no other reason than that's the "proper" place to put them
<ogra_> as long as the device is called cdrom
<ogra_> sure, but currently you'll have to live with two desktop and device entries in nautilus then
<sbalneav> Get the new ltspmount.c last night?  I was wearing out my usb port last night plugging and unplugging memory sticks.  Seems to work pretty schweeeet.
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> using it ;)
<ogra_> with the new cdpinger and ltspfsmounter (we need new names !) you now have the right icons on your desktop as well ;)
<ogra_> i'll look later today how to patch nautilus so we dot get the eject entry if LTSP_CLIENT is set
<ogra_> *dont
<ogra_> then we nly have floppies left
<ogra_> which i dont have around here 
<jsgotangco> ogra_: well it makes any planet-based edu app in our repo obsolete :D
<sbalneav> ogra_: I've got a couple of rigs with floppies.  let me handle that one.
<ogra_> i think it should work out of the box, but lest see
<ogra_> *lets
<ogra_> udev should handle it just fine 
<ogra_> the only think i see is that we cant get the proper icon here
<sbalneav> yeah, the device node's being created, that much I know.
<ogra_> then its also mounted
<ogra_> but as soon as the label is used instead of the name floppy we wont get the right icon
<ogra_> same prob as cdroms have 
<ogra_> they need to be called cdrom in /media
<sbalneav> It's getting pretty nice, I gotta say.
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> its the sexiest localdev implementation ever :)
<sbalneav> Hey, is pitti working on the blocker bug?
<ogra_> sure, he marked it "in progress"
<ogra_> and he uses to work with german precision ;)
<ogra_> so it should be fixed until release in any case
<sbalneav> awesomeness.
<sbalneav> ok, I'm gonna spend an hour finishing up on pitti's concerns, and autoconf/"gnu"ing it.
<sbalneav> We're calling it "ltspmount", do we want another name?
<ogra_> i'll have to gnu my stuff as well :)
<sbalneav> ltspbindmounter?
<ogra_> haha
<ogra_> lbinder ?
<ogra_> lbind ?
<ogra_> our names start getting quite longish :)
<ogra_> lbindmount
<sbalneav> lbmount?
<ogra_> that sounds good
<sbalneav> lbmount it is.
<sbalneav> okie, gimme a bit.
<RichEd> sbalneav: sort of the wrong channel for this question, but I see you are more active here than in #lstp at the moment. do you know the names of the fedora & debian & red hat people coming to the fest ?
<RichEd> i'm motivating to mark to support my invitation :)
<sbalneav> RichEd: heh, I'm in both.  You're talking the summit at jammcq's in September?
<sbalneav> Is that the one you're taling about?  Or right now in LWCE?
<RichEd> no ... i've been invited as an education observer to start some relationships - i'm the new Canonical Education Programme Manager ... and the fest is a good place to meet a whole bunch of people at once
<RichEd> jammcq's yes ... and to meet Ogra as well :) we just know each other digitally and have not met as yet
<sbalneav> Ah, ok well....
<jsgotangco> RichEd: you're talking to the next-in line god of LTSP!
<jsgotangco> :D
* jsgotangco hides
<sbalneav> Fedora: Warren Togami, head of Fedora
<sbalneav> Debian: vagrantc, hangs out in #ltsp all the time
<ogra> jsgotangco ++
* RichEd is humble and well aware of the impeccable credentials :)
<sbalneav> Ubuntu: Ogra, teutonic Edubuntu warrior
<ogra> heh :)
<sbalneav> and I think jammcq's gonna see if he can shame someone from SuSE into coming.
<sbalneav> On the LTSP side, we'll have jammcq, me, and gadi.
* ogra goes to swing his teutonic lawnmower for a moment now ...
<RichEd> + Eric Harrison ... Eri & Jim & Oliver yourself are the primary reason to come
<RichEd> the rest are a bonus !
<sbalneav> jsgotangco: next in line God?  Please, my proper title is demi-God :)
<jsgotangco> ack!
<sbalneav> Ah, yes, Eric as well, how could I forget.
* jsgotangco begs for divine mercy
<RichEd> hope that's no relation to demi-Moore ;)
<sbalneav> Granted, my child :)
<jsgotangco> come to where?
<RichEd> What name does vagrantc go by when he walks the real world ?
<sbalneav> It should be awesome.
<sbalneav> Umm, hold on lemme look
<RichEd> And is the RedHat person a reality or a rumour at this stage ?
<RichEd> Or is he bundled with Fedora ;)
<sbalneav> Vagrant Cascadian
<RichEd> tx.
<sbalneav> Jammcq told me yesterday that it's confirmed that Warren's bought his plane ticket.
<jsgotangco> err what's happening here?
<jsgotangco> LTSP sprint?
<RichEd> yes jsgotangco : LTSP hack fest
<jsgotangco> or a bunch of gods that decided to go meet at mount olympus
<jsgotangco> and decide the fate of the world
<sbalneav> It is an effort to find a common ground amongst all distros, as to how LTSP should be implemented in a common way
* RichEd cuts & pastes that great 1 line summary into his motivation
<sbalneav> Ubuntu's the first distro to implement the "muekow" spec we came up with, and vagrantc's moved it into debian.
<jsgotangco> yes so i iheard
<sbalneav> The trick will be to get the RPM world and the DEB world to agree on a common way (if possible) to do things, so that LTSP will simply be an installable package under any distro.
<RichEd> any news on: <jammcq_laptop> and i'm hoping for a Novell guy ?
<RichEd> then i'll stop with the questions already and leave you to get back to work :)
<sbalneav> Ubuntu/Debian have the advantage that they've already DONE the heavy lifting, so I'm sort of hoping we can basically say "ok, lets look at Ubuntu/debian, and figure out how we do the same thing on Fedora/Redhat/Suse
<sbalneav> RichEd: The novell thing we'll find out at some point today.
<RichEd> schweet
<jsgotangco> that's really really nice
* RichEd is most greatful for the info
<jsgotangco> grateful :D
<sbalneav> If we can get Fedora + Novell + Ubuntu + Debian at the same table, that's like, what, 90+% of all Linux's out there?
* jsgotangco orders RichEd to write it down 10 times on the board
<RichEd> greatful = same as grateful, just a greater appreciation level ;)
<jsgotangco> yeah eventually, all the others will follow suit
<jsgotangco> Fedora gets to go to RHEL
<sbalneav> Once you get it in Fedora, that means it's just a matter of time before it's in RHEL, and it's easy to port it to Mand[rake|riva] 
<jsgotangco> Novell, well goes to themselves
<sbalneav> Basically, I see this as the summit where the future of thin client on Linux gets decided, and moves ahead to the next phase.
<sbalneav> I've said this lots of times, and I'll say it again:
<sbalneav> If you're going to deploy Linux in any scale, at a business or a school:
<sbalneav> Thin client is the ONLY way to go.
<cbx33> ping ogra 
* jsgotangco claps at the inspiring chat logs
<sbalneav> And if there's a good, stable, capable thin client implementation included in any distro, then that blows the whole thing right to the next level of awesomeissitude.
<jsgotangco> sbalneav: i'll be doing a presentation in 2 weeks that can alter the LTSP landscape here
<jsgotangco> *if* it gets implemented
<sbalneav> Down in the Phillipines?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<sbalneav> Cool.  At schools?
<jsgotangco> we're targeting GILAS
<jsgotangco> yeup
<jsgotangco> yep
<sbalneav> gila mosters?  Can they type? :)
<sbalneav> What are GILAS?
<jsgotangco> http://www.philippinenews.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=37a79420dfb7aaddcc2a048ecb43bc46
<sbalneav> Ah, awesome.
<sbalneav> Edubuntu slots in perfectly.
<jsgotangco> Interestingly, MS is part of GILAS but hasn't done anything
<jsgotangco> that's where I come in
<jsgotangco> so yeah i think i need a haircut soon
<cbx33> ogra, I'm going to have some time to work on scp tonight, if you get time, could you look at the code I did in my bzr branch, scp-client and scp-server run the server, then the client and see if that's what you were thinking of
* cbx33 needs another haircut
<jsgotangco> i need a *real* haircut
<cbx33> Think I'm gonna go lead-singer-of-muse haircut 
<jsgotangco> if i dont get it cut soon itll be as long as ogras
<RichEd> paper based education story: http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20060816110655719C284059
<RichEd> "Mark's multi-million rand surprise for mayor"
<jsgotangco> RichEd: i really need some help on the case studies :/
<jsgotangco> "A canon was fired to kick off the ceremony. "
<RichEd> next week, they fire a bishop, then soon a cardinal !
<RichEd> jsgotangco: been looking around in the gaps in my time but not easy ..,. as we said ... will look some more in-between my meetings tonight
<jsgotangco> thanks i couldn't find really good data myself
<cbx33> ping Amaranth 
<cbx33> jsgotangco, that is quite some hair then :p
<jsgotangco> fairly; it grows too fast
* RichEd is going for some dinner
<bddebian> Hello
<sbalneav> ogra: heh, this thing's bloated to about 315 lines of code!! :)
<sbalneav> ok, away for lunch for a bit.
<sbalneav> be back in an hour.
<sbalneav> Ogra, just sent off the (hopefully) final vierson to pitti.
<sbalneav> cc'd you.
<ogra> thanks !
<sbalneav> 338 lines
<ogra> enjoy your lunch
<sbalneav> for a setuid wrapper 
<ogra> i'll look at it :)
<sbalneav> <whine>Secure programming is hard</whine>
<sbalneav> going for my walk.  bbl
<LaserJock> rodarvus: ping???
<sbalneav> ogra: Back from walk.
<rodarvus> LaserJock, pong
<mhz> hi all
<LaserJock> rodarvus: pm :-) sorry for ping
<mhz> is the mmeting up for 1:45 more hours?
<willvdl> Hi folks. Proud owner of Dapper on a travelmate.
<RichEd> hi th1a :)
<th1a> Hi RichEd.
<th1a> I just got a call that Steve is running behind & won't make it.
<RichEd> how are you doing ? is it early or mid morning for you ?
<th1a> It is 3:00 PM.
<RichEd> okay ... no problem ... we can chat
<RichEd> move to pvt window ... opening now
<th1a> I might have to go pick up my wife at about 3:45, btw.  I forgot about that, but 45 minutes should be enough.
<mhz> RichEd: hey there
<RichEd> hi ... busy with a meeting - see you back here before edubuntu
<mhz> okis
* mhz will be right back in 15 minutes
* highvoltage arrives
<LaserJock> highvoltage!!
<sbalneav> Zap!
<highvoltage> hi las	
<highvoltage> i mean...
<highvoltage> hi LaserJock!!!
<highvoltage>  :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<highvoltage> how are things your side of the planet, laserjock and sbalneav?
<LaserJock> not to bad
<LaserJock> it's kinda starting to cool off here :-)
<highvoltage> it seems to just get colder and colder here too :/
<th1a> RichEd:  I seem to have lost you.
<sbalneav> Pretty awesome thanks!
<sbalneav> How's the new venture?
<RichEd-1> hello ?
<highvoltage> hi RichEd-1 
<highvoltage> sbalneav: it's tstarting to take form
<highvoltage> it's also a *lot* of work :)
<RichEd-1> i died for a bit ... alive again tx.
<sbalneav> excellent!
<highvoltage> we've been getting more staff, which i though would mean less work for me, but it turns out handing over work and explaining things is a lot of work in itself
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> yeah, easy to fall into the "easier to do it myself than to show YOU how to do it" trap.
<highvoltage> yep. the one one gril.. erm... woman.. we've hired is quite impressive
<highvoltage> we just hired her to take care of admin stuff and to answer the phone
<highvoltage> but she's fantastic, you can trust her with a lot and she'll get it done
<willvdl> better than Amanda?
<highvoltage> she's only been with us for a week and a half now, and she's already done fantastic work
<highvoltage> willvdl: even better than Amanda :)
* willvdl wonders if that's possible
<highvoltage> willvdl: but that doesn't mean you can steal her :)
<willvdl> mwooohaha
<LaserJock> wahoo, I got a nice edubuntu edgy gdm theme staring at me
<willvdl> helps when the basics are there doesn't it?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: is it green?
<LaserJock> no
<sbalneav> ogra: Pingus
<LaserJock> it's Ubuntuish looking with a nice edubuntu logo on it
<LaserJock> uggg, now that I loged in I got green
<mhz> :(
<LaserJock> that's kinda nasty
<LaserJock> the gdm theme is all nice brown, orange, and red
<LaserJock> then the gnome splash is green
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> yeah, well...
<LaserJock> then the desktop is the chalkboard
<LaserJock> which really isn't as bad as it could be
<LaserJock> but when you log in there is that time before the gnome splash starts where it just has a solid color
<highvoltage> ogra refered to it as being almost as bad as staring to the berlin wall
<highvoltage> at least edgy should be much nicer, with lisa onboard and all
<LaserJock> so the background goes form Ubuntu brown to green all of a sudden
<LaserJock> good thing I wasn't eating ;-)
<highvoltage> mhz: howdy
<willvdl> the ubuntu brown on my screen looks a bit more like purple
<LaserJock> purple? kde is now purple
<mhz> there is this teacher who prefers the Ubuntu bootsplash and the Ubuntu GDM defaults, instead the Edubuntu ones. He installed ubuntu-desktop (for such purpose), rebooted and still sees Edubuntu stuff. how is it possible to achieve what he wants?
<mhz> highvoltage: hi Mr. Volts
<highvoltage> mhz: you have to apply update-alternatives to the bootsplash theme...erm... usplash theme, gdm theme, and desktop theme
<highvoltage> LaserJock: or is there an easier way?
<LaserJock> no, I think update-alternatives
<mhz> cool!
<mhz> command lines!!
<LaserJock> for usplash
<LaserJock> anyway
<LaserJock> people want to do a themeing tool that would be a nice clickable GUI to switch
<LaserJock> since it's pretty common
<highvoltage> souds like a job for cbx33 :)
<Petaris> is there a mas user creatation tool
<highvoltage> a general theme tool would actually be nice
<Petaris> something that creates users based on certain parameters?
<highvoltage> yeah, but that doesn't do anything for the gdm or usplash themes
<LaserJock> highvoltage: yeah, he said he wanted to work on it, but I think right now he is on scp
<highvoltage> oh, cool. 
* mhz BRB
<highvoltage> ya
* highvoltage ses he'll get a chance to cheerlead again
<highvoltage> *sees
<LaserJock> yeah?
<highvoltage> yeah, willvdl is applying for membership
* willvdl grins
<willvdl> but need to do some work first...
<LaserJock> cool
<highvoltage> i think that your tuxlab work should count
<highvoltage> ogra: EdubuntuMeetingAgenda is a locked page and a bit out of date
<highvoltage> d'oh! i wasn't logged in
<highvoltage> hey cb	
<cbx33> hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hi cbx33
<cbx33> not too late am I?
<cbx33> just saw "Cars"
<cbx33> very funny
<highvoltage> nope, meeting starts in about 5 minutews
<cbx33> exshellent
<highvoltage> lag-- :)
<sbalneav> cool.
<sbalneav> I'm in #ubuntu-meeting
<sbalneav> I can hang around for 3/4 hour
<sbalneav> I'm kind of "adopted ubuntu", ain't I? :)
<highvoltage> heh :)
<cbx33> heheh yup sbalneav :D
<ogra> ************ REMINDER Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meetig in 4 minutes *********
<ogra> *#ubuntu-meeting
<RichEd> re: "highvoltage ses he'll get a chance to cheerlead again"
* RichEd shakes his head as he tries to make the short skirt & pom-poms image go away.
<cbx33> eeeewww RichEd now I have the image too
<cbx33> take it back take it back
* willvdl has been struggling with it for a while now
<highvoltage> that's nothing...
<RichEd> rosy cheeks and all : uuuurgh ...
<highvoltage> what about poor LaserJock that had to share a room with me for an entire week!
<cbx33> eeeeeeeek
<cbx33> I bet he helped you make the dress didn't he :p
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> it wasn't so bad
<ogra> ************ REMINDER Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 2 minutes *********
<highvoltage> LaserJock: you snored a lot
<LaserJock> everybody stayed up late anyway
<cbx33> ogra, you doing 2^n powers this week?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: yeah, that's what my wife says too
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra> ************ Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting starts now *********
<juliux> !seen ogra 
<ubotu> ogra is on IRC right now!
<LaserJock> juliux: meeting time
<juliux> LaserJock, i see ;)
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PoweredBy   <- Powered by Edubuntu templates for those interested in creating stickers
<carwash> Hi, how are my options of doing an install with thick or half thick (harddrive less) devices?
<sbalneav> carwash: Not sure what you mean?  Thin clients you mean?
<carwash> I have a lab of new computers that i want to put edubuntu on. They are more than powerfull enough to run as thick clients (standalon), but to save time and power i wish to either run them harddrive-less "half-thick".
<highvoltage> carwash: e-mail me at jonathan@ubuntu.com
<highvoltage> i'm going to bed now
<highvoltage> but two weeks ago i implemented a lab like that
<highvoltage> i could send you a howto, it's not that complicated
<carwash> cool, thanks I would love that
<highvoltage> (depending on your security requirements)
<carwash> very lax ;)
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> goodnight everyone, i really can't stay awake anymore, i'll catch up with cbx33 's logs tomorrow
<LaserJock> cya highvoltage 
<cbx33> hehehehe
<cbx33> thank highvoltage 
<carwash> gnight
<highvoltage> gnight!
<carwash> 3D/join #ubuntu
<carwash> wops
<rodarvus> I need to leave for a while, family has arrived home
<rodarvus> will be back later
<LaserJock> ogra: got a minute?
<cbx33> yes I know I'm back
<cbx33> too hungry to sleep
<cbx33> so I gotta eat something first
<cbx33> hi pygi 
<LaserJock> cbx33: tsk tsk
<cbx33> heheh
<pygi> hey cbx33 
<RichEd> cbx33: are those regular munchies ;) or fuelled ones ?
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> cheese and bacon pasty
<cbx33> skipped a meal
* RichEd wipes the silly grin off cbx33 face and tells him to put the rizla away
<cbx33> VERY hungry
<cbx33> ha ha ha :p
<RichEd> night all ... james bond time on my desktop 00:07
<cbx33> nn RichEd 
* RichEd winds down the generator .... HUMMMMmmmmmmm ....
<cbx33> ping ogra 
#edubuntu 2006-08-17
<cbx33> really is nn time now
<cbx33> nn guys
<sbalneav> hey again
<bddebian> Hello
<sbalneav_> me on another machine
<LaserJock> nooooo
<LaserJock> we ... can't ... take ... 2
<sbalneav> Muaahahahahahaha
<sbalneav> Ignore that other fellow, he's an imposter!
<sbalneav_> No!! Don't listen to him.  I'M the real sbalneav!
* LaserJock shoots both ;-)
<sbalneav_> oh, drat
<sbalneav_> I would have made it if it hadn't have been for you pesky kids!
<sbalneav_> Well, obviously my Scooby-doo reference fell flat. :P
<LaserJock> sorry, we were having a discussion of nasty French hotel food in -motu
<LaserJock> it has since devolved
<LaserJock> ;-)
<sbalneav_> Serves you right for eating there.  :)
<sbalneav_> you won't make that mistake again next time, riiiiight? :)
<sbalneav_> "Do as we do, say as we say"
<LaserJock> "Stick with the LTSP guys"
<LaserJock> "The only thing thin, is the clients"
<LaserJock> ;-)
<sbalneav_> We'll be in U.S. of A this time, so there will be thick steaks a-plenty on dinner forays.
<bddebian> w00t
<sbalneav_> Lobster, perhaps.
<sbalneav_> And beer. Well.  That goes without saying.
<sbalneav_> And for desert: Cheesecake.
<sbalneav_> Yum
<sbalneav_> Well, lets see if my little mod to Ogra's cdpinger works.
<cafuego> Wheee, 210 Edubuntu CDs just arrived :-)
<sbalneav_> 210?
<sbalneav_> yikes!
<cafuego> 3x70
<cafuego> Spacial order
<cafuego> s/a/e/
<sbalneav_> SOMEONE's doing a big install, I'd say.
<bimberi> cafuego: for SFD?
<cafuego> They're going here: http://www.acec2006.info/
<cafuego> bimberi: Nope
<cafuego> Kattekrab is speaking at that ^^ conference.
<bimberi> ah yes, of course :)
<cafuego> So she can hand the CDs out to teachers directly.
<sbalneav_> 4
<sbalneav_> Man, when I get something working late at night, and there's no-one here to share it with, I shed a little tear.
<sbalneav_> ;_;
* bimberi_ high fives sbalneav_
<sbalneav_> :)
<bimberi_> :)
<sbalneav_> cdrom support on thin client is now officially AWESOME
<sbalneav_> memory sticks --> DONE
<sbalneav_> cdroms --> DONE
<sbalneav_> floppies --> COMIN' RIIIIGHT UP
<bimberi_> fantastic!
* LaserJock does a cartwheel
<bimberi_> i see lots of questions about local devices
<sbalneav_> ogra's cdpinger was great, but it had one or two TINY bugs in it, which I've now squashed.
<sbalneav_> Well, I'm an "upstream" developer for LTSP, and I developed the localdevice support there.
<sbalneav_> It's going to be even better un Ubuntu.
<sbalneav_> So, I guess I'm kicking my own butt :)
<bimberi_> lol
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> sbalneav_: yo, imbrandon's got a question for you
<LaserJock> ;-)
<sbalneav_> certainly
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> [23:21]  <imbrandon> do you know if a edubuntu server ( ltsp ) can server a ppc and amd64 client from a i386 ?
<sbalneav_> the answer to that would be "yes"
<sbalneav_> What you'd have to do is boot a ppc client on ubuntu, 
<imbrandon> cool ok, was just about to try it but all the "thin clients" i would use would be ppc, and all servers i would use woudl be i386 ;)
<sbalneav_> do the "ltsp-build-standalone" on it,
<sbalneav_> then transfer the /opt/ltsp/ppc dir to /opt/ltsp on the 386 server.
<imbrandon> ok so on the ppc load a full ubuntu ?
<sbalneav_> just one.  To allow you to build the ppc tree.
<imbrandon> ahh ok /me listens
<sbalneav_> After that, and when you transfer over the ppc dir to the server, they can all net boot.
<imbrandon> cool sounds simple enough
<sbalneav_> See, you can't actually BUILD the ltsp chroot on a 386 server because it can't run the ppc bins.
<imbrandon> right
<sbalneav_> But, if you build it on a ppc, then transfer it over, from there on in, you're just serving it out with nfs
<sbalneav_> so, it doesn't matter.
<imbrandon> but if i put the ltsp server on a amd64 i could build both x64 and i386 
<sbalneav_> Yes.  you should be able to do that.
<imbrandon> cuz really its just chroots 
<imbrandon> cool ok
<sbalneav_> yep.
<imbrandon> ok one last "dumb question" 
<sbalneav_> sorry, did you /msg me?  I'm on my alter ego here, and not authenticaed on this id, so I dont get /msg
<imbrandon> i have tes to get ltsp to work yes so i'm trying the edubuntu way since it all works out of the box pretty much
<imbrandon> nope i dident
<imbrandon> someoen might have but not me
<sbalneav_> ah, ok, just wondering why i didn't see your question.
<sbalneav_> anway, go on
<imbrandon> ahh i havent asked yet , and the first one i was talking to Laser_away in -motu ;)
<imbrandon> ok anyhow ummm *thinks*
<imbrandon> ohh the netboot thing
<imbrandon> ok i load a enu server up and hop on an i386 with netbot nic
<imbrandon> it should find it ok without conflicting with my router ?
<imbrandon> or do i need to do the dns trickery
<sbalneav_> Is your router handing out dhcp addresses?
<imbrandon> like with plain ltsp ?
<imbrandon> yea its a netgear cable modem router wireless all in one job that i kinda have to keep dhcp on becouse 
<imbrandon> i have some non pc devices that need dhcp from it
<imbrandon> i think that was my main hickup in the past to useing ltsp
<imbrandon> i was hoping edubuntu took care of that somehow
<sbalneav_> If you've got something else handing out dhcp addresses, then dhcp trickery will be a must.  However, dhcp trickery can be avoided by either a) using edubuntu to hand out the dhcp addresses, or b) installing a second net card, and hooking the thin clients up to that.
<sbalneav_> Nope, that's pretty much impossible to just "magically" avoid :)
<imbrandon> hrm well hrm .....
<imbrandon> heh yea i figured that
<imbrandon> heh ok .... *thinks* sorry still a bit rusty at this
<sbalneav_> dhcp's easy.  There's both here and #ltsp to help you with it.  Not like we haven't helped, oh, say, a few THOUSAND people with it before :)
<imbrandon> give me a some code and package i'm in heaven , give me a dhcp server and i need a 12pack of beer to even look at the conf LOL
<imbrandon> hehe true
<sbalneav_> meh, I code dhcpd.conf stanzas in my sleep.
<imbrandon> i bet ;)
<imbrandon> ok i'm gonna go try to do this with letting edubuntu hand out the ip addresses, mind if i pick you brain for one more minute
<imbrandon> with a theoetical setup to make sure i dont have any major flaws in my thinkgin
<imbrandon> so first i turn dhcp off on the router and let it jsut be a router .......
<imbrandon> i can set all my pc static for now no probs
<imbrandon> the non pc devices can get an ip from edubuntu still correct
<imbrandon> and use the router as the gateway
<sbalneav_> yep
<sbalneav_> no problem
<imbrandon> k cool, i think that should work then
<sbalneav_> Eminently workable :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> do you konw if the apple nic's in ibooks ( orinoco drivers ) will netboot, or will i have to have some kinda skel system on them
<imbrandon> to boot
<imbrandon> or is google my friend on that one ;)
<sbalneav_> Um, that I don't know.
<imbrandon> np i can grab that via google, but say i do have to have a skel system setup for them
<imbrandon> can that be generated from the ubuntu install ?
<sbalneav_> I *just* bought a mac ppc a week or two ago to start testing things, and to be honest, I haven't even had a chance to boot it yet.
<imbrandon> heh np
<sbalneav_> imbrandon: yep.  In fact, if you simply install edubuntu-ppc, it'll do it for you.
<imbrandon> i'm guessing i will becouse i would like to use the wireless in them
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> so there is a like a "client" option in the install ? forgive my ignorance i'm very new to ltsp but not linux in general ( i'm a MOTU among other things )
<imbrandon> heh
<sbalneav_> Ah, you want wireless netboot?  heh
<sbalneav_> there's a LOT of people who want that.  
<imbrandon> if possible heh
<sbalneav_> Not possible :)
<imbrandon> maybe i can help try and figure out a way ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<sbalneav_> No wireless netboot card currently netboots :(
<imbrandon> who know but no ammount of questions are gonna prepare me so i guess i'm gonna dive in and chekc back if i have probs ;)
<sbalneav_> yep.
<imbrandon> thanks for the quick start though ;)
<sbalneav_> Not at all.
<imbrandon> yea a wireless card that netbooted would sell like hotcakes i bet ;)
<bimberi_> imbrandon: i think you can hold down the N key at boot to make (some) Macs netboot (non wireless)
<imbrandon> bimberi_: cool thanks i'll try that
<imbrandon> yea it has both, but i would RATRHER use the wireless but that might be a no-go atleaste for now ;)
<imbrandon> the 3 i have here are semi older g3 800mhz 640mb ram iBooks so they may or may not but i'll try it ;)
<imbrandon> and the "server" is gonna be a amd64x2 4400+ ( running in 32bit mode )
<imbrandon> so it "should" work out ok ;)
<imbrandon> hrm how is that gonna work though, i thought the apps ran on the server, i guess they do and are piped to the local X running
<imbrandon> so X and the kernel + drivers are all that needs to be ppc ?
<sbalneav_> Well, X, kernel, drivers, plus a whole buncg of glue
<imbrandon> hehe yea i'm generizing a bit but 
<imbrandon> yea the WM like gnome/kde + apps run from the server though
<imbrandon> and are piped
<sbalneav_> yep, that's how X works.
<sbalneav_> The X calls are networkable, so an x89 server can display on a ppc client no problem
<imbrandon> cool ok, yea like i said still kinda new to ltsp , tried it on other distro's before i started deving for kubuntu but never got it to work, maybe today is my lucky day
<jsgotangco> we dont doubt the demigod of LTSP
<imbrandon> ;)
<sbalneav> jsgotangco: :)
<highvoltage> mhuhahahaha
<jsgotangco> there goes one of the acolytes
<highvoltage> acolytes?
<highvoltage> what's that?
<sbalneav> highvoltage: One who attends; an assistant. "With such chiefs, and with
<sbalneav>       James and John as acolytes." --Motley.
<sbalneav> It has a religous connotation. 
<highvoltage> aah
<sbalneav> Long fruitful night, but now I need sleep.
<sbalneav> night all
<RichEd> pygi :)
<pygi> RichEd, what I did this time? :)
<RichEd> ? nothing bad springs to mind ;)
<jsgotangco> RichEd: just for info, I will be doing a presentation to GILAS (www.gilas.org) regarding Edubuntu on the 30th. Gina hooked me up for this
<pygi> RichEd, o good, for the first time in history ^_^
<pygi> RichEd, o, btw. you gonna visit Ubuntu conf. in Hungary next month?
<pygi> one of my presentations is about Edubuntu, ofcourse
<RichEd> morning guys ...
* RichEd hides from jsgotangco until he can find those damn proof of IT success in eductaion links
<jsgotangco> :)
* jsgotangco beams
<jsgotangco> RichEd: really they're *so* excited about htis
<RichEd> pygi: would love to ... but that will need to be next year, same time, same place, busy with foundation building blocks in this phase
<pygi> RichEd, ah, oki :'(
<highvoltage> morning RichEd 
<RichEd> jsgotangco: as per all my conversation threads, I am excited & supportive ... you are my community resource main main #1
<RichEd> main man #1 :P
<RichEd> hi highvoltage 
<jsgotangco> if we make a dent on GILAS this would be big
<jsgotangco> afaik, they are in bind at the moment with MS Phil
<jsgotangco> there seems to be a stalemate
<RichEd> any news on the "personal full time association" opportunity ? 
<jsgotangco> she called me up today she said she'll get back to me this week
<RichEd> jsgotangco: I will make time to help you with the presentation, or find people or resources to assist
<RichEd> we need to show support for you ... and I *WILL* make that happen
<jsgotangco> i have to fix this up by month's end or else i'll get screwed by my current work
<RichEd> MS stalemate ? how ? what ? more ?
<jsgotangco> well they seem to have some issues on distributing the software then supporting it
<RichEd> jsgotangco: tomorrow, 9:00-10:00 am my time belongs to you on this topic
<jsgotangco> i dunno the exact details, GILAS isn't actually a well advertised initiative
<RichEd> it is about to go 9:00 am for me now, to give you a time reference
<jsgotangco> ahh okay
<jsgotangco> 3pm here
<RichEd> so chalk it up in your diary ...
<jsgotangco> okay
<jsgotangco> we can do skype if you want
<RichEd> we'll get a private window open, and research chat side by side ...
<jsgotangco> ok
<RichEd> skype would be good ... i need to get set up ... can you send me a quick start pointer ?
<RichEd> i'm on ADSL so b/w is fine ... just need to know where to register / download etc.
<bimberi_> !skype
<ubotu> To install Skype on Ubuntu, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Skype To record on Skype, check: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SkypeRecordingHowto
<RichEd> pygi ... how far is hungary from georgia
<bimberi_> 'morning RichEd :)
<jsgotangco> http://www.skype.com/download/
<RichEd> that uboto is a most helpful bot ! it seems to do word reconition & rapid response !
<RichEd> recognition <- reconition
<jsgotangco> you can grab the Debian package
<RichEd> thanks ubuto ;)
<RichEd> hi bimberi_ : do we get beaten by you or the men in black this week (sobbe)
<bimberi_> RichEd: it's our turn up against the all blacks this week
<bimberi_> the wallabies trained here in Canberra this week, probably because it's colder, to acclimatise
* RichEd is relieved ... breathes a sigh of relief
<bimberi_> hehe
<jsgotangco> cricket?
<RichEd> no rugby ... or in recent weeks, more like buggery
<RichEd> my team is playing 2 levels below badly
* RichEd does a whois on ubuto ... and asks looking a bit foolish : is ubuto a bot or person ?
<bimberi_> RichEd: ubotu is a bot - i triggered it with !skype
<bimberi_> !botsnack
<ubotu> Yum!
<RichEd> ah ... at first i thought it was a person ... then for a moment I though it actually did grammar recognition :)
<jsgotangco> !die
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about die - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<RichEd> !springbokrugby
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about springbokrugby - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<RichEd> :)
* RichEd tries some recursive nonsense
<RichEd> !Sorry
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about Sorry - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<jsgotangco> hmmm epiphany took over my desktop lol
<bimberi_> RichEd: you can actually /msg it - btw it ignores after a certain number of bad queries :)
<jsgotangco> RichEd: this looks like partly useful
<jsgotangco> http://www.tsf.org.za/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=246&Itemid=33
<RichEd> you mean so you can ask in a private window without appearing too stoopid ?
<RichEd> jsgotangco: i'm going to shower and will be back to give you my concentration for 20 mins
<RichEd> i'm also seeing highvoltage & willvdl for lunch today ... so will ask them for some face-to-face help with references ... there must be something in the TSF / tuXlabs arsenal on the topic
<jsgotangco> thanks
<bimberi_> RichEd: lol, yes that's right
* bimberi_ bbl
<highvoltage> on which topic? WSD?
<RichEd> highvoltage: jsgotangco needs case study reference on how the introduction of IT has improved academic results
<RichEd> any reference material that will support a presentation to a foundation in Philippines on why computes should be funded into education
<RichEd> jsgotangco: i've got a conversation happening with the Canonical / Intel partner manager ... and his recent mail says that PRC is on their short term radar
<jsgotangco> PRC
<jsgotangco> china?
<RichEd> PRC is Pacific Rim Countries, no ? and that's you no ?
<highvoltage> ah
<jsgotangco> ohh
<jsgotangco> well its all known as People's Republic of China ;)
<jsgotangco> there's East Asia and ASEAN
<RichEd> oh ... I better check to see what he means by his abbreviation ...
<RichEd> But we are talking about Vietnam now, and that area, so you are within that sort of geographicasl region
* RichEd is open to correction
<jsgotangco> that's part of SEA (South East Asia)
<RichEd> yep ... this is his territory focus: Vietnam, Latin America, PRC, and Southeast Asia.
* RichEd goes off to check a world map ... brb
<RichEd> jsgotangco: google search on [vietnam phillipines]  tells me: "Throughout the past week more than one million people were evacuated due to Typhoon Chanchu in China, the Philippines and Vietnam"
<RichEd> so you are in the same bowl so to speak ?
<RichEd> anyway ... what I can say now is that there is some growing co-operation between around Intel Education programme & Ubuntu
<RichEd> so we may be able to add value above the o/s into your pitch to Gina ... 
<jsgotangco> RichEd: the typhoon path usually starts in Philippines then goes to Taiwan or China
<jsgotangco> RichEd: i just saw this http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/07/10/2115242&tid=37
* RichEd still needs that shower : 2 past-pumpkim time nights are making me feel icky
<jsgotangco> http://anycec.org/main/node/668?PHPSESSID=087555993070778a7c912ae21859116a
<jsgotangco> this is exactly what were looking for
<RichEd> jsgotangco: quick, what it what link on Gina ? i have a very short email time window ... got the intel guys attention now
<jsgotangco> ah wait
<cbx33> Mornin all
<RichEd> and confirm ... she is a director of http://www.abs-cbnfoundation.com/ ?
<cbx33> what a great meeting yesterday :D
<jsgotangco> RichEd: 
<jsgotangco> RichEd: yes
<jsgotangco> http://www.planetphilippines.com/archives/2005/jul1-15-05/current/features_current/feature3.html
<RichEd> hello cbx33 : that meeting with highvoltage & willvdl happens today. case study & advocacy will be on the topic list
<cbx33> exshellent
<cbx33> what time?
<RichEd> lunch time
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> after that will we know a little more about how to proceed with the packs?
<jsgotangco> RichEd: http://www.newsflash.org/2004/02/sb/sb003803.htm
<jsgotangco> RichEd: she's from a media tycoon clan
<RichEd> cbx33: we'll start a discussion which will lead to a proj plan ... and I now commit to agree to a timeline & deadline by end of tomorrow.
<RichEd> so that will be a stake in the ground, where we can haggle over details, but non-negotiable that is it going forward
<RichEd> towards a conclusion I mean (not just wanderin' along somewhere)
<cbx33> good
<RichEd> jsgotangco: see email ... 1st baby step ... but support for you :)
<jsgotangco> wooooo
<jsgotangco> thanks!!!!
<jsgotangco> "kitty"
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<jsgotangco> man if i get to move in this organization i have to fix up that website
<RichEd> see the next email ... lots of resonance ... if you play this info right ... you'll be the 3way man on the ground for CBS & Ununtu & Canonical ralationship manager
<RichEd> talk to me before you spread anything. we'll tie it up peoperly to server all of our aims
<RichEd> properly to serve
<jsgotangco> sever lol
<jsgotangco> thanks im sending email now regarding some news i found
<jsgotangco> i gotta go
<jsgotangco> ciao
<valkyrie> hi
<rodarvus> good morning
<bimberi> hi rodarvus
<rodarvus> hi bimberi 
<bimberi> wow the local device support (in ogra's email of a few minutes ago) sounds fantastic
<ogra> its really sexy :)
<bimberi> sbalneav was very happy earlier :)
<ogra> well, he broke a lot tonight :P
<bimberi> lol
<ogra> but i'm already fixing ... he also improved a lot ;)
<ogra> ouch ... that mail went to the wrong list ...
<bimberi> ogra: -users? that's ok isn't it? or are you worried about expectations
<rodarvus> ogra, putting a default lts.conf in edubuntu edgy ?
<ogra> rodarvus, yes, we discussed it yesterday in the meeting
<rodarvus> ogra, yes, I remember :)
<ogra> its one step in the K12 direction
<rodarvus> I was asking if this is the email you were referring to (which you said you sent to the wrong mailing list)
<rodarvus> but anyhow
<ogra> together with dchpd.conf autogeneration and localdev that makes it possible for us to compete feature wise
<rodarvus> the defaults seem just fine
<ogra> great :)
<rodarvus> SWAP is the one likely getting changed the most
<ogra> well, we need a default size you can set anywhere 
<rodarvus> we could think about tweaking it automatically (without user interaction), but this is surely stuff for edgy+1
<ogra> err
<rodarvus> ogra, yeah. 64mb is surely a good choice
<ogra> but thast the target of the fully automatic swapserver spec
<ogra> no user interaction at all
<rodarvus> ogra, yes
<rodarvus> but what I'm mentioning is changing the default setup automatically
<ogra> hmm
<rodarvus> (if this is part of the spec  I missed it and need to stufy it with more care :) )
<rodarvus> ogra, considering disk space on the server, memory setup for clients, type of applications you are going to run, etc
<ogra> right
<ogra> but it should be an adjustable value ...
<rodarvus> indeed
<ogra> either thrugh a config on the server (/etc/nbd-something.conf) or (better) triggered from the client, so you can set individual swap sizes for different clients
<ogra> its one option more to use in the clients swapon code ... nbd-server needs just to pick it up for the automatic swapfile creation
<rodarvus> nice, that was my next question :)
<rodarvus> (if you could setup swap sizes different for each client)
<ogra> you should be able to ...
<ogra> indeed that doesnt need to be in the initial implementation ... a fixed size is fine in the beginning
<ogra> but we offer per client settings in the lts.conf ... so we should keep it in mind :)
<rodarvus> *nods*
<bimberi> ah, _that_ email (only just got it :/ )
<jsgotangco> wow my daughter counted to 200 without failure
<jsgotangco> for a 4 1/2 year old that seems impressive
<ogra> totally
<bimberi> wow, it is!
<jsgotangco> i started her teaching to use an abacus last week
* bimberi applauds jsgotangco for _listening_ to his daughter count to 200 :)
<jsgotangco> heh im in awe as well
<lucasvo> ogra: you are the maintainer of the -user list, right? could you please find out why I ge tmy mails twice? it's lucasvo@vincisolutions.ch
<RichEd> very quiet here again today ... hmmmmm
<jsgotangco> hey
<jsgotangco> ive been looking at the websites
<RichEd> hey ... what do you think ?
<RichEd> if you were pitching to a lightweight organisation on your own .. then I would say that Intel would say ... ho-hum ... another plea for help
<RichEd> but seeing as it is (Ed)Ubuntu + a media related organisation with exposure possibilities & a good philanthropic track record ... in a country where they have alrady donme some good work ...
<RichEd> I am sure we can put something together that serves the aims of all 3 parties ?
<RichEd> --- Edubuntu boot CD question --- from Marilize ------------------------
<RichEd> Does the current LTS 6.06 allow a live CD boot option ? Or only an install ?
<jsgotangco> RichEd: interestingly the people i will meet on the 30th are the heads of the two biggest foundations
<jsgotangco> RichEd: the current LTS is only install (even the one on shipit)
<jsgotangco> RichEd: we have a liveCD option but only for workstation
<jsgotangco> its because we ship a server solution primarily
<jsgotangco> rather than a desktop one
<RichEd> The web site says "includes a Live CD" which I think is a remnant from the 2 CD pack.
<jsgotangco> is that from our website?
<RichEd> And people are moaning .....
<RichEd> Ahhhh .... Ohhhhhhhh ..... Whine .....
<RichEd> So I guess we must correct the site then.
<jsgotangco> if its on our website i can change it
<jsgotangco> (edubuntu.org)
<jsgotangco> i was planning on doing a review a few days ago after i made some minor typo corrections but never got to
<RichEd> will get the link from marilize now ... tx
<jsgotangco> yes please im in the cms now
<RichEd> asking ... waiting ...
* RichEd drums fingers ....
<jsgotangco> hhehe
<RichEd> send me these names : <jsgotangco> RichEd: interestingly the people i will meet on the 30th are the heads of the two biggest foundations
<jsgotangco> gina lopez of abs-cbn and vicky garchitorena of ayala foundation (for gilas)
<jsgotangco> gina hooked us up with vicky
<jsgotangco> because of gilas
<RichEd> i've just got the names & email addressess of the business development managers for this region at intel ...
<jsgotangco> well i think intel is part of gilas
<RichEd> i'll drop your meeting names in the intro mail ... who knows ... maybe on the off chance they will want to join you ?
<jsgotangco> so our meeting with gilas is preliminary and introduce edubuntu/ubuntu
<RichEd> please can you mail me with as much deatil as you can ?
<RichEd> what's gilas, what's ayala, why are they joining you, and how do you mean intel is part of gilas ?
<RichEd> REQUEST:
<RichEd> <marilize> http://www.edubuntu.com/Download
<RichEd> <marilize> it should not say Live CD.....for shipping
<RichEd> <marilize> thanks
<RichEd> END REQUEST
<RichEd> thanks ...
<RichEd> out for 30 mins ...
* RichEd has a crazy day today
<jsgotangco> okay thanks
* jsgotangco fixes to 6.0.6.1
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: kewl :)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: slacker
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: :(
* jsgotangco hugs highvoltage
<highvoltage> i prefer it if you call me a slacker
<highvoltage> *joke*
<highvoltage> :)
<jsgotangco> RichEd: GILAS is a privately funded project to connect to the internet the 5,000+ public schools in the country
<jsgotangco> RichEd: its a 5 year project i think its on its 2nd year and only 1.200+ has been connected
<jsgotangco> let's also add a point release annoucement even if its a bit late
<jsgotangco> we shouldn't even have to link to cdimage since this is more of the developmental download links
* jsgotangco points to releases.ubuntu.com
* highvoltage goes home [ ok ] 
<highvoltage> bye!
<jsgotangco> ok the page is done
<jsgotangco> RichEd: please check if its ok now
<RichEd> marilize will test ... will let you know ...
<RichEd> soon
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> i also added news of the point relase
<jsgotangco> ahh fudge
<sbalneav> Morning all!
<sbalneav> Hey ogra!
<bddebian> Heya
<jsgotangco> hi
<bddebian> Hi sbalneav
<RichEd> gun tag herr grawert
<sbalneav> hey bddebian jsgotangco RichEd 
<RichEd> hi sbalneav ... & cbx33 
<cbx33> hi RichEd
<bddebian> Hi jsgotangco, RichEd, cbx33 :-)
<cbx33> hi bddebian 
* RichEd waves to bddebian from another window
<jsgotangco> hey
<ogra> hey sbalneav 
<sbalneav> hey!
<sbalneav> Sorry, I started the cdpinger from the startup, but what I was REALLY thinking was starting it from udev, when a cdrom is created
<ogra> you forgot to close the (f) filehandle in cdpinger btw :)
<sbalneav> but I couldn't think of the udev rule :(
<ogra> has funny effects since you open a new f ever 3 seconds
<ogra> *every
<ogra> my client dies after some time with a "too many open files" error on the console
<ogra> hmm, an udev rule ...
<ogra> do we know that the blockdevice is a cdrom ? 
<ogra> ah, yes, indeed we do
<ogra> thats trivial ... we can at least start it from the add_fstab script
<ogra> i think i hand over the device type anyway already, let me look
<ogra> LABEL=$(echo ${ID_BUS}${ID_TYPE}-$1|tr " " "_") 
<ogra> right
<ogra> so if ${ID_TYPE} = cdrom we just start a cdpinger 
<sbalneav> that's what I was thinking.
<sbalneav> then, if there's NO cdrom in the system, you're not running a pinger.
<ogra> its just not easy to stop it ;)
<ogra> at least in case of multiple cdroms
<ogra> you cant just kill all of them ...
<ogra> i dont want to do uglyy grepping stuff through the processlist ...
<cbx33> ogra, Iwas looking at the ACL
<sbalneav> Hmmm.
<cbx33> for the scp
<ogra> but even if you write a pid file, you wont know which one is right without looking in the processlist
<cbx33> from what I can see there are no restrictions on who can run scp
<sbalneav> I think I bypassed the check symlink thing that you were doing every pass.  We could just re-position that, and if the symlink goes away, we just exit!
<sbalneav> howzzt?
<ogra> cbx33, they are in scp itself, it doesnt start up with uid!=0
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> I'll have to check that
<cbx33> the server side works great
<sbalneav> pitti's got a few more requests :)
<cbx33> I have an ACL working
<sbalneav> so I need to do that today :)
<ogra> i lie the idea of dynamically strating it better though :)
<ogra> *like
<sbalneav> yeah, if they don't have a cdrom, no sense using up the ram.
<sbalneav> simple and clean.  I'm really linking this implementation.
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> it gets better every day ;)
<ogra> additionally to being sexy in the beginning ;)
<ogra> *already
<sbalneav> Well, we have the two sexiest developers in Linux working on it, so how could it fail? 
* sbalneav welcomes #edubuntu to the Oliver Grawert and Scott Balneaves mutual admiration society
<bddebian> heh
<ogra> :)
<sbalneav> 3)'s the biggie.  Any idears on that one?
<ogra> damned ... the udev script wont work this way ...
<sbalneav> verdampt?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> the device wond be called cdrom ... so we cant use the symlink
<ogra> at least fro usb devices you get scdX
<sbalneav> ah, I'm already talking with keybuk about that, we've got the same problems with floppies.
<sbalneav> I think there's a udev magical bit where you can pass the symlink name instead of the kernel name.
<sbalneav> if nothing else we could do a RUN+="cdpinger cdrom%n"
<ogra> have a look at 60-symlink.rules
<ogra> will a 65 script override that ? 
<sbalneav> yes. should, that's what keybuk recommended.
<ogra> oh, ah
<ogra> heh
<ogra> ENV{ID_CDROM}=="?*",            SYMLINK+="cdrom"
<ogra> that means that the symlink will always point to the most recent created device if i'm not wrong
<sbalneav> right
<ogra> which would mean its completely unreliable anyway
<sbalneav> If we wanted separate ones, we'd wand SYMLINK+="cdrom%n"
<sbalneav> Which would give us cdrom0 cdrom1, etc
<ogra> yep
<sbalneav> which would still work with g-v-m, and solve all the problems.
<ogra> i wonder why the script doesnt do that yet already
<ogra> looks buggy
* cbx33 made a great discovery today
<jsgotangco> the 13th planet?
<cbx33> anyone who has bought a tosh laptop will have seen that plastic on the top
<cbx33> that peals off
<jsgotangco> yeah okay
<cbx33> it;s quite sticky and static
<jsgotangco> uh huh
<cbx33> if you put 15-20 sheets of that together
<cbx33> it's like flamin kevlar
<cbx33> and extremely light
<cbx33> I tried to stab a screwdriver through it
<cbx33> seriously full force
<cbx33> didn't get through
<RichEd> jsgotangco: link looks fine ... thanks
<cbx33> that's pretty tough stuff when in multiple sheets.....quite flexible too :p
<jsgotangco> okay so you're saying let's buy a lot of toshiba laptops and use them plastics to create a DIY protection suit
<jsgotangco> RichEd: cheers
<cbx33> jsgotangco, exactly
<jsgotangco> nice we'll be able to replace ogra's roof with toshiba laptops as well
<cbx33> heheh
<sbalneav> ogra: why don't we just handle the direct name, and just have cdpinger create directories like cdrom%n, and just scan the directory for the first available free n?
<ogra> sounds like the best option :/
<sbalneav> so, we se scd[whatever] . and we look through /tmp/drives.  If there's no cdrom0, then create it, if there is, then create cdrom1, etc etc/
<cbx33> ogra, the implementation of the scp dbus I found a problem with
<cbx33> got a sec?
<sbalneav> shouldn't be that much extra work.
<ogra> no but  its an ugly limitation i wouldt have expected 
<ogra> cbx33, shoot
<cbx33> a) does the server know when a message has completed?
<ogra> why should it need to ?
<cbx33> b) what happens if two people send a request from scp at the same ich time
<sbalneav> yeah, I wasn't aware that %n was so flakey a number.
<cbx33> how shorta poll time should we have?
<cbx33> and should messages have timeout periods?
<ogra> the second instalce should fail to connect, that needs internal handling in scp
<cbx33> ahh
<ogra> it shouldnt even start up 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> so you're not even contemplating that two versions could be running at once
<cbx33> I was thinking of having a messaging bus with incrementing message numbers so the client can see which messages it has read
<ogra> exactly
<cbx33> and have a TTL on the message
<ogra> its limited to a single ltsp server anyway
<ogra> i dont think you need message numbers
<ogra> the client should just listen (poll every n secs) for a message from the namespace ...
<ogra> if a list message comes and it finds $USER in there, it will accept the next message as well (which should be a command message)
<cbx33> how long till the mesage is deleted?
<ogra> if theer doesnt come a second message after a certain time (5 secs or so) it starts to listen to "list" messages again
<cbx33> hmmm
<ogra> some seconds whould suffice for all clients to pick it up
<cbx33> how does the client know it's just done a message?
<ogra> *should
<cbx33> and not to do the same message again
<ogra> why shoudlnt it ? 
<cbx33> ??
<cbx33> if some one puts exec firefox in the queue
<ogra> if i click a second time on execute it should execute a second time
<cbx33> of course it should
<cbx33> but how does the mesasge get cleared from the queue?
<cbx33> or fomr the bus
<cbx33> the scp server deletes it after a certain amount of time
<cbx33> ?
<cbx33> it can't just sit there, otherwise the client will keep acting on it?
<ogra> for example ... doesnt dbus have a ttl mechanism ? 
<cbx33> not at the level we are using
<cbx33> some of the things you wrote were extremely low level
<ogra> then delete it after n seconds
<cbx33> and we don;t need to worry about
<cbx33> but then the poll time needs to match that exactly !!
<cbx33> if it's under the command can be run twice
<ogra> well, mdz and iwj wanted it like that, i found it overkill as well ;)
<cbx33> if it's over it could get skipped
<cbx33> ogra, can I propose another system?
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> well,
<cbx33> I think a message queue, with a ttl on each message is a lot better,
<cbx33> each message has an incremented number
<cbx33> and the client just keeps count of what the last number it acted on was
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> if a message appears that applies to it, that is greater than the last count, run it
<cbx33> if not ... ignore it
<ogra> but the messages must disappear from the bus anyway
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> after the TTL
<cbx33> I'm just thinking this part of the system has to be pretty stable
<cbx33> if it crashes teachers lose control etc
<ogra> the message it acts on must be listmessagenumber+1
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> and apply to it
<cbx33> user name etc
<ogra> sure thats out of question
<cbx33> I also think that the 4 message system shoudl be changed for expandability
<cbx33> why not send one type of message
<cbx33> with a command as a prefix
<cbx33> instead of list, kill, exec
<cbx33> what do you think?
<sbalneav> ogra: I have an idear
<ogra> you mean: "exec, firefox [user1, user2, usern] " ?
<cbx33> ogra, kinda yeh
<ogra> sure, why not
<sbalneav> instead of callig gnome-session directly...
<cbx33> I'll write up a new spec
<cbx33> for that section
<ogra> we dot call gnome-session at all
<sbalneav> Why not call a script that looks like:
<sbalneav> #!/bin/sh
<ogra> *dont
<sbalneav> gnome-session
<sbalneav> # clean up mounts.
<ogra> its a prerequisite that we use the defaul XSession of the system
<ogra> we never called gnome-session
<sbalneav> Oh?
<sbalneav> heh, never looked at what we called. 
<sbalneav> oh!
<sbalneav> Do we call the xsession script?
<ogra> /etc/X11/Xsession
<sbalneav> ah, perfect.
<sbalneav> We can put some cleanup in /etc/X11/Xsession.d
<ogra> so you can add it to XSession.d instead ;)
<ogra> desktop independent ;)
<sbalneav> hah, beat you to it.
<sbalneav> problem solved.
<ogra> and you even wrote the full path !
<sbalneav> :)
<cbx33> ogra, is that ok for me to come up with a new spec for it, or shall I just go ahead and code it
<cbx33> and come up with a spec later :p
<ogra> go ahead and code it and add it in an extra section to the spec, so i can wave it in
<cbx33> ogra, ok, only if you are happy with that implementation?
<ogra> yep, thats fine
<ogra> it adresses some weaknesses ;)
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> it'll be early next week now :p
<cbx33> I'm away tomorrow and sat
<cbx33> and I have to have logout sounds done for 3 themes by tuesday
<ogra> sbalneav, what do you think about gconf integration ?
<ogra> ltspfsmounter could check if a key is set for certain device types i.e. user is allowed to use local cd or local disks ... 
<ogra> that would enable the admin to lock down the key in a gui way via pessulus ...
<ogra> gives fine grained access control
<sbalneav> That sounds awesome, but I don't know diddly bupkis about gconf.
<sbalneav> You'd use something like gconf-tool2 or something to look up the keys.
<sbalneav> ?
<sbalneav> Sorry, I'm at work, I'm rummaging around for a spare terminal to play now at  work :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> there is python-gconf
<sbalneav> Oh, right, you were thinking of re-writing the mounter in python.
<ogra> yep
<sbalneav> I think that's an awesome solution.  It will integrate well with pessalus/sabayon, and gives fine-grained control on a user-by-user basis
<jsgotangco> good night
<ogra> well, we have that anyway by the fuse group already ;) but it would be finer grained
<cbx33> why is all my text anti aliased now :S
<Petaris> cbx33: its supposed to make it pritier
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<cbx33> Petaris, it makes it more diffiult to read on this LCD
<cbx33> :S
<Petaris> yeah, I have a monitor or two it utterly sucks on to
<Petaris> makes it look fuzzy
<sbalneav> aaaaaargh!!!!
<sbalneav> 99xorg-common-startup:
<sbalneav> exec $STARTUP
<sbalneav> crumb!
<sbalneav> ogra: That something we can change?
<ogra> why ? 
<sbalneav> well, it's sourced.
<sbalneav> so if you do an exec of the startup (i.e. gnome session)
<sbalneav> there's no hope of slotting anything in afterwards :(
<cbx33> ogra, there is something wrong with taht ACL
<cbx33> :(
<sbalneav> because xsession script's gone :(
<cbx33> I'll try and sort that out first
<cbx33> 2/3 logout sounds done
<cbx33> :D
<ogra> sbalneav, i thought you wanted to clean up before 
<sbalneav> Before?
<ogra> before the session starts
<ogra> we cant change the ubuntu defaults there ...
<sbalneav> So when the user logs out, you leave the dead bindmounts and all around?
<sbalneav> We could clean up before, I suppose.
<ogra> well, no
<ogra> i wrote you something in my last mail ;)
<sbalneav> oh, you're talking about what petter did?
<ogra> yep
<sbalneav> ah, ok, so you're on that case then.
<ogra> ltspfsmounter can get a "cleanup" command
<ogra> so ldm just needs to start (ugly way) /etc/X11/XSession && ltspfsmounter cleanup
<ogra> but along these lines ...
<sbalneav> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<sbalneav> that's not ugly
<sbalneav> that's brilliant
<sbalneav> perfect
<sbalneav> You're so smart.  When I grow up I want to be just like you! :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i can only give that back :)
<cbx33> ogra, :D:D
<cbx33> this is going well
<ogra> cool !
<cbx33> apart from the ACL
<cbx33> I can send messages to the system bus, even though I'm not root
<cbx33> but I can't own the bus unless I'm root
<cbx33> so in essence the server script is working fine and restricted ok
<cbx33> however the client (scp) tool can still go about it's business as a normal user
<sbalneav> ogra: ok, I'm having a dopey moment.  I've set up the ltsp chroot, and I've got the terminal booted.  done the ltsp-update-sshkeys, but when I log in, it just boots me back to the login.  What have I missed?
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> set a root pw and look in the ldm.log ? 
<ogra> (on the terminal)
<ogra> and look in ~/.xsession-errors 
<ogra> if you ran the update-sshkeys it should simply work ... is your sshd running? 
<sbalneav> ah, there's the proble,
<sbalneav> i've got 2 cards in this box, and ltsp-update-sshkeys didn't add an entry for the card I'm running the term on
<sbalneav> humm
<ogra> thats weird
<ogra> shouldnt happen
<sbalneav> re-ran it
<sbalneav> lets see
<ogra> is the interface up ?
<ogra> indeed it is ... you just booted from it :)
<ogra> silly me
<cbx33> ogra, regarding the ACL issue, could it be that we never actually denied send access to the interface before we allowed it from root?
<cbx33> so therefore by "default" everyone has send access
<cbx33> got it
<cbx33> that was it :D
<cbx33> we now have working ACL 
<cbx33> w00t
<ogra> sbalneav, any idea why esd would connect to .ltspfs-socket ? 
<ogra> lsof -t gets me esd in the output
<sbalneav> no idea at all
<sbalneav> as for my logon problem: "Xsession started for user scbal..."
<sbalneav> No profile found for user scbal
<sbalneav> huh
<ogra> sabayon ...
<ogra> create a profile or remove sabayon
<sbalneav> ohhhh
<sbalneav> yep that was it.
<sbalneav> that needs.... a better error message :)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> ldm needs them ;)
<sbalneav> ok, lunchtime walkies!
<ogra> enjoy
<sbalneav> Need to keep my svelte figure :)
<ogra> :)
<sbalneav> bb in a bit
<ogra> hmm, the cdpinger doesnt wotk on uplug anymore either ...
<ogra> oh, right, the check_mounted function is gone ...
<ogra> so it doesnt clean u anymore ...
<ogra> *up
<cbx33> ogra, we could use the scp daemon to poll users and make sure that the system message bus listener service is running for each user
<ogra> daemon ? 
<ogra> please dont make that bigger than it is ... there should be a simple subfunction in scp 
<ogra> no daemons ...
<cbx33> I meant the scp message bus server
<ogra> that should be scp itself 
<ogra> no separate rogram
<cbx33> oh right
<ogra> and keep it as simple as possible 
<cbx33> ogra, then
<ogra> no two way communication or anything ... thats fine for version 2
<cbx33> please explain in the spec
<cbx33> the difference between server and client
<ogra> server = scp 
<ogra> client = the listener in the users session
<ogra> i thought that was explained there 
<cbx33> read the execution of the application
<cbx33> that paints a completely different picture
<cbx33> half the work I've done is not required
<cbx33> if we're implementing in the way you have just said
<ogra> A Student Control Panel listener service file with the namespace 'com.ubuntu.StudentControlPanel' will be installed in /usr/share/dbus-1/service.d/ which will listen for messages from Student Control Panel. 
<cbx33> read further down
<ogra> doesnt talk about a "student control panel server"
<cbx33> further down it gives that impression
<ogra> but about student control panel
<ogra> oh, right Client here = SCP 
<ogra> i'll add the word schematic to the caption of that piece ...
<cbx33> so client and server are the same thing?
<ogra> no
<cbx33> then why does it have to communicate with itself over dbus?
<cbx33> ok what is server
<ogra> SCP communicates with a tool in the users session
<ogra> what you are referring to is a plain schematic picture 
<ogra> i could have written A and B instead of Server and Client
<cbx33> yeh I understand that
<ogra> or X and Y
<ogra> its just to show the dataflow
<cbx33> but it implies that the A talks to B
<ogra> nothing you should base an implementation on
<cbx33> and the C picks up the messages from the bu
<ogra> right
<ogra> they are two different apps
<cbx33> so who are A and B
<ogra> A is SCP
<ogra> B is the tool running in the users session
<cbx33> and C?
<ogra> ??
<ogra> there are only two ends on a sausage ... what do you mean with C ?
<cbx33> ok....
<cbx33> line by line....
<cbx33> Client (SCP) sends the message
<cbx33> to where?
<ogra> sigh
<ogra> dbus
<ogra> on the system bus
<cbx33> Server (who is this) verifies the message
<cbx33> unless by this you mean server as in LTSP
<ogra> no
<cbx33> the dbus server
<ogra> forget about the term server
<cbx33> ogra, I get it now....
* ogra deletes that section from the spec
<cbx33> that entire section
<cbx33> is the authentication
<cbx33> o my word
<cbx33> I can;t beleive I was so THICK !
* cbx33 goes to shoot oneself
<cbx33> ogra my apologies.....I totally mis understood taht section
<cbx33> can you ever forgive that stupidity
* cbx33 was making it so we could have multiple instances of scp running
<ogra> even if we might have a remote executable SCP at some point for remote management of multiple SCP servers, there will only be one instance running on the respective server 
<ogra> s/muliple SCP servers/multiple LTSP servers/
* ogra goes back to localdevs
<cbx33> my case was two teachers in different class rooms
<cbx33> wanting to control students
<cbx33> both rooms powered by the same ltsp server
<ogra> that cant work ...
<ogra> unless you have userlists and databases who is in which room
<cbx33> or databases of which machines are in which room
<cbx33> which is how our system at school works currently
<ogra> how would you know
<ogra> its 100% dynamically .... all you could use here would be the MAC address of the client
<cbx33> we use a commercial package at the moment
<cbx33> called ranger remote
<ogra> thats the only thing thats not dynamically
<cbx33> yes it uses macs
<ogra> and its way beyond SCP at the current state 
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> i really need to go on coding now
<cbx33> once again I apologise for making you pull your hair out
<ogra> nah, it was very badly written, yu are right 
<cbx33> sorry again
* cbx33 gets back to recoding 
* Caraibes is quite happy with is Edubuntu desktop, and so are the kids !!! :)
<sbalneav> ogra: Got time for a quick techie discussion?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> let me make a fresh coffee first :)
<sbalneav> ok, while you're making coffee, I'll type: pitti wants us to make sure when we unmount the directory, it's ours...
<sbalneav> However, I can't do a stat() call, because EVEN IF I DROP PRIVS!, fuse stops us because the binaries setuid, so I can't stat the directory.
<sbalneav> However, what I CAN do, is check /proc/mounts for the mountpoint:
<sbalneav> which will show somehing like uid=1000 in the options field.
<sbalneav> So, before unmounting, I look for the dir in proc mounts, see that it's got a bindmount owned by me, and it should be safe, yes?
<sbalneav> That make sense?
<sbalneav> Pitti's not in -devel, otherwise i'd ask him
<ogra> he'll be around later, we have distro meeting at 1am (local time)
<sbalneav> 1am?
<sbalneav> Wow
<ogra> 23:00 UTC
<sbalneav> I'm going to assume that's valid, and code it for now.  
<sbalneav> since I KNOW that the stat() call won't work. :)
<ogra> ok
<sbalneav> It's this or don't do the test :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i'D rather dont ) 
<ogra> :)
<ogra> it starts getting a lot of bloat here
<pygi> ogra, libburn burns ^_^
<sbalneav> Don't think pitti will like that.  And we want to stay in his good books :)
<ogra> sbalneav, btw whyts /tmp/foople for ? :)
<sbalneav> argh.  Debugging stuff left in.
<ogra> lets use ~/.xsession-errors :)
<sbalneav> anything I send you while developing might have wibbly bits in it :)
<ogra> probably even for cdpinger etc *g* we could send it through the socket :P
<sbalneav> I name all my debugging files/variable/etc "foo*", then after I've got everything working, I do a "grep foo *" on my source, and clean them all up :)
<ogra> ok, looks like i have cdpinger running fully again here with the usb cdrom ... it doesnt cry if i unplug etc ...
<ogra> ah, nice :)
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~/devel/ltspfs/ltsp-localdev-scott$ fusermount --help
<ogra> bash: /usr/bin/fusermount: Permission denied
<ogra> grmbl
<ogra> I ONLY WANT YOUR HELPSCREEN YOU DARN THING !
<ogra> sorry :)
<ogra> sad, there is no --user option for the unmount :)
<sbalneav> yeah, fuse is HYPER secure
<ogra> would be nice to just fusermount -uzq --user $USER 
<ogra> to unmount everything 
<sbalneav> ogra: ah, so that's the hacked up cdpinger that I gave you last night being launched from udev?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> cdpinger itself had some serious bugs 
<ogra> i rewrote the lsof part completely ...
<ogra> fiddled around with the unmount .... (it started to unmount over and over when i unplugged ...
<ogra> )
<ogra> and re-added the check for the link and the closing of the filehandle ...
<sbalneav> awsome. mail me please please please please please please pretty please
<ogra> suure
<ogra> sbalneav, sent
<sbalneav> thx
<sbalneav> are you starting it from udev, or still just statically?
<ogra> still statically 
<ogra> with one default one started with cdrom as argument 
<ogra> and after that i'm running the loop for multiple CDs you added 
<cbx33> ok ogra I'm getting there again
<sbalneav> Cool, lookin HOT
<cbx33> my listener is just not receiving the signals
<cbx33> but it will receive HAL signals
<cbx33> :
<cbx33> S
<ogra> sbalneav, oh, the check_mount function can be dropped again
<ogra> i did that onyl for s test
<ogra> *some
<ogra> oh, i didnt even realize you write directly to fstab :)
<ogra> to sad thats not possible with sed
<ogra> thats bothering be in the remove_fstab_entry script
<ogra> *me
<sbalneav> yeah, I just figured why call an extra program when we're already python.
<sbalneav> figured it might be faster.
<ogra> (sed needs to write a .swp file to /etc for it :/)
<ogra> (and mv doesnt work either because t needs to remove the file first)
<ogra> heh ...
<ogra> we could make cdpinger a python module :P
<ogra> then i could just use the functions from it in the add/remove_fstab_entry scripts
<ogra> hmm ...
<ogra> hmm ...
<ogra> hmm hmm
<ogra> what about just starting/killing cdpinger from these scripts ?
<ogra> for all devices
<ogra> not ... that'll eat to much mem
<sbalneav> yeah, I like it how it is for memory sticks: there's nothing hanging around, the connection's plumbed, and then it's done.
<ogra> but in fact we do a lot redundant stuff
<ogra> all the functions we have in cdpinger are used in the udev scripts in shell ...
<sbalneav> brb, work ping
<ogra> sed -e "/^\/dev\/$1 /d" /etc/fstab >/tmp/fstab
<ogra> cp /tmp/fstab /etc/
<ogra> rm /tmp/fstab
<ogra> thats better :)
<ogra> still not perfect but well
<sbalneav> gad, the nerve of these people, expecting me to work on LEGALAID related matters during working hours!  Don't they know I've got Ubuntu stuff to take care of? :)
<ogra> heh
* ogra goes downstairs for dinner
<cbx33> pygi, know a good way in python to return the current username?
<rodarvus> cbx33, 
<rodarvus> >>> import os
<rodarvus> >>> os.getlogin()
<rodarvus> 'rodarvus'
<rodarvus> >>>
<cbx33> oooh thanks rodarvus 
<rodarvus> :)
<LaserJock> yeah, that os module is nifty
<rodarvus> I wish all questions could be as easily answered as this one ;)
<cbx33> I looked at the docs
<cbx33> but couldn't find one
<rodarvus> cbx33, the interactive interpreter is the *best* doc you can find in python
<rodarvus> dir (module) does wonders
<LaserJock> ok, I've got like 2 hrs to come up with a talk about Launchpad :-)
<LaserJock> hmmmm
<cbx33> EASY
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> yeah right
<rodarvus> how long is your talk going to be?
<rodarvus> what aspects of LP are you going to talk about?
<LaserJock> well, 1hr
<rodarvus> LaunchPad is *huge* stuff :)
<LaserJock> of course
<LaserJock> I was supposed to be a backup because I'm giving another talk
<LaserJock> but nobody wanted to touch LP ;-)
<LaserJock> but the conference is pretty informal
<rodarvus> LaserJock, you're going to talk about LP itself, Malone, Rosetta, Soyuz, Blueprint, or something else?
<LaserJock> so I think I'll talk about Malone, Rosetta, Soyuz, Blueprint
<LaserJock> briefly show how to get around a bit
<LaserJock> maybe a little triaging or something
<LaserJock> and then maybe have more of a discussion
<LaserJock> about peoples experiences with it or something
<LaserJock> that's the best I can figure out
<sbalneav> Hello all
<LaserJock> hi scotty
<cbx33> ogra, ok
<cbx33> kill is now performed via dbus
<cbx33> I've done it
<cbx33> 70% of the work done
<cbx33> just need to do execute
#edubuntu 2006-08-18
<ogra> :))
<pygi> Backing up itself:
<pygi> ... recognized CD-RW ... blanks it ... burns ... verifies ok.
<pygi> libburn-on-cdrecord, weeee :)
<sbalneav> ogra: I sent off the lbmount to pitti.
<sbalneav> here's for you
<sbalneav> sent
<sbalneav> hopefully, this will address all his concerns!
<cbx33> ogra, I am so sorry about before....I just totally mis-read it
<cbx33> and I didn't need to implement the message numbers
<cbx33> because of the way it is now done
<cbx33> using signals and callback handlers
<ogra> sbalneav, ltspfsmounter done in python ... i'm working on the cleanup function now ... and add the bits to ldm locally
<sbalneav> Dude!
<cbx33> ogra, how are we going to start process for execute and detach them from python?
<sbalneav> and you'll send me your new bits tonight so I can play play play, right?!?!? :) 
* sbalneav rubs hands in anticipation
<Laser_away> easy boy ;-)
<ogra> sbalneav, doing now, not sure if i have the power to go on hacking after the meeting
<sbalneav> this a private meeting?
<rodarvus> sbalneav, nope, ubuntu developers team weekly meeting
<rodarvus> starting in 3 minutes on #ubuntu-meeting
<sbalneav> I might pop in for a bit.
<ogra> sent
<sbalneav> thanks ogra, things are REALLY starting to look good.
<mhz> neurogeek: hi there
<ogra> yeah
<neurogeek> mhz, how is it going??
<ogra> now the floppies and we're done :)
<cbx33> :)
<cbx33> well done guys
<ogra> well, the floppy part can still be hairy :)
<ogra> oh, and we dont have a queueing solution yet for pre-plugged devices ...
<cbx33> I don;t know how you've managed to do that....and put up with me whinging about SCP and dbus
<mhz> neurogeek: just passing by a cibercafe ...
<mhz> neurogeek: but good thx
<cbx33> nn all
<neurogeek> mhz glad to hear that.. when are you planning on having inet at home again?
<mhz> neurogeek: uuufff, as soon as I can afford to move to an apartment :(
<neurogeek> why is that? you have to move out?
<mhz> neurogeek: i have even tried to get web access from a neighbours' but distance was to large
<neurogeek> mhz, have you tried to build a home-made antenna?
<mhz> neurogeek: hmm, not yet, mainly because I should be moving anyways. Actually, I should have moved 2 months ago, at least.
<neurogeek> mhz, ok.. good luck then
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> neurogeek: thx
<mhz> neurogeek: how about you? SMS? other apps?
<neurogeek> mhz, well, im working on a lot of stuff right now.. SMS is a pain because of the contracts.. plus im learning french.. jejeje very difficult i have to say..
<mhz> neurogeek: indeed, but not so much when you already master at least another lang besides your mother tongue.
<mhz> and not as difficult as learning Chineese or Janpaneese, or any alike (Russian even)
<mhz> :)
* mhz trying to stay optimistic 
<neurogeek> well thats true.. but man.. in spite.. that d**n difficult
<bddebian> Howdy
<ogra> sbalneav, you got mail :)
<sbalneav> Cool
<sbalneav> checking
<sbalneav> So, was it a good meeting?
<ogra> sorry for the broken version ...
<ogra> sure :)
<ogra> i'm always happy if i survive the thursday meeting ;)
<sbalneav> :( Do you sometimes not survive?
<ogra> sure i do ... but thats the day where mdz usually asks the hard questions ... :)
<sbalneav> ahhhh
<sbalneav> :)
<ogra> ltspfs /tmp/.ogra2-ltspfs/usbdisk-sda1 fuse rw,nosuid,nodev,user_id=1002,group_id=1002 0 0
<ogra> ltspfs /media/ogra2/usbdisk-sda1 fuse rw,nosuid,nodev,user_id=1002,group_id=1002 0 0
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> intresting
<ogra> there is no bind mount at all 
<ogra> ohh
<ogra> as the user who did the bindmount i see it ...
<ogra> if i'm not the user i see it as ltspfs mount :)
<ogra> thast transparency ... :P
<ogra> but thats very sexy for the cleanup
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ cat /proc/mounts |grep ltspfs|grep ogra2|awk '{print $2}'
<ogra> /tmp/.ogra2-ltspfs/usbdisk-sda1
<sbalneav> yeah, the bindmount's nice that way
<ogra> oh, ah ... its different in the output of mount ...
<ogra> mount actually shows the bind mount
<ogra> /proc/mounts has it as ltspfs mount
<ogra> so we just need to unmount all ltspfs mounts that match $USER from /proc/mounts ... easy :)
<sbalneav> yep!
<sbalneav> but, we'll need to use the lbmounter on the bind mount one, because it will need su
<sbalneav> man!  2:30 am your time!  I hope you sleep in!
<ogra> cleanup code done ... 
<ogra> i'll mail it to you and go to bed ;)
<ogra> i also removed the special cdrom handling ... pitti should solve it
<sbalneav> excellent
<ogra> sbalneav, i just discovered a horrible thing :/
<sbalneav> oh noes!
<sbalneav> what?
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~/devel/ltspfs/ltsp-localdev-scott$ ls -l /media/|grep ogra
<ogra> drwx------ 2 ogra2 ogra2 4096 2006-08-18 02:52 ogra2
<ogra> what do you see ? 
<sbalneav> um, an ogra2 directory?
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~/devel/ltspfs/ltsp-localdev-scott$ su ogra2
<ogra> Password: 
<ogra> ogra2@edubuntu:/home/ogra/devel/ltspfs/ltsp-localdev-scott$ mkdir /media/ogra2/blupp
<ogra> ogra2@edubuntu:/home/ogra/devel/ltspfs/ltsp-localdev-scott$ ltspfs 192.168.0.250:/tmp/drives/usbdisk-sda1 /media/ogra2/blupp
<ogra> xauth:  timeout in locking authority file /home/ogra/.Xauthority
<ogra> well, i cheated and su'ed ...
<ogra> but blupp is mounted ...
<ogra> and i see the file contents
<ogra> our suid wrapper only needs to create the subdir :/
<sbalneav> that's all it does, and the bindmount
<ogra> we dont need the bindmount
<ogra> thats what i mean 
<ogra> the user has full rw permissions ... so i can create subdirs and just use ltspfs directly... 
<ogra> as user
<sbalneav> well, that makes it simpler! :)
<ogra> right
<sbalneav> lol
<sbalneav> ok
<ogra> but we wasted a lot of time for the bind stuff :(
<sbalneav> meh
<sbalneav> you say wasted time, I say "learned what not to do!"
<sbalneav> :)
<ogra> heh, ok
<sbalneav> hey: whatever gets us a good solution.
<sbalneav> ok, I'll hack on that tonight.
<sbalneav> anything more to send me before you pass out?
<ogra> i'll send you what i have canged in ltspfsmounter
<ogra> sent
<sbalneav> goin' to bed?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> now
<ogra> its not removing the dirs set on cleanup ...
<ogra> but thats trivial ...
<sbalneav> I'll play with it tonight.
<ogra> night
<ogra> oh, btw, thats solves the two cdrom issue as well ...
<ogra> (now i'm off ... really !)
<sbalneav> you're a str
<sbalneav> star
<sbalneav> back.  Developing on edubuntu now.
<RichEd> greetz
<jsgotangco> hi
<RichEd> highvoltage: busy recovering from a machine hang & hard reboot :(
<jsgotangco> RichEd: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-August/001675.html
<RichEd> hi jsgotango ... comment was for you ... autocomplete picked up the voltage part !
<jsgotangco> oh!
<RichEd> give me a minute or two ... just getting my work back into shape to start my day ...
<RichEd> opening your link now & email in a few secs.
<highvoltage> RichEd: :(
* highvoltage gets that a lot :)
<highvoltage> especially on #ubuntu
<RichEd> 'lo ... maybe you should convert to lowvoltage ... especially given the western cape electricity situation
<highvoltage> there already is a lowvoltage
<RichEd> watt a pity ;)
<highvoltage> heh, i nearly didn't get that :)
<RichEd> jsgotangco: how is your day looking ? can we shift our time to the top of the next hour ?
<RichEd> i'm goping to do some urgent email ... and then try to get skype working
<jsgotangco> RichEd: sure but i'll be out in 2 hours from now im going to have a haircut
<jsgotangco> and ill be without net access till monday
<RichEd> no problem. 42 mins and counting ...
<RichEd> 10 mins
<jsgotangco> sure sure :)
<jsgotangco> ive already sent email reply, purchased something online and tested a webapp being developed for a client :)
<jsgotangco> all done while listening to Judas Priest ;)
<RichEd> yep ... can't get quaity work like that done to britny !
<RichEd> jsgotangco: revising my last email ... then i'm yours
<RichEd> ping jsgotangco ... (at last) ...
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> RichEd: thanks for the time
<RichEd> jsgotangco: my pleasure
<RichEd> greetz willvdl 
<RichEd> am going to mail you case study doc format now
<RichEd> followed by a high level steps forward project plan ... to you and cbx33 = pete savage
<willvdl> greetings
<willvdl> the mail from Maning on edubuntu-devel has got me thinking
<RichEd> yep ... i want to factor that in ... and corey's response ....
<RichEd> and a user mail i got with good priase for home kids use
<willvdl> cool.
<willvdl> did you get the evaluation I sent you yesterday?
<jsgotangco> the email from Maning is a reflection of the overall situation here
<willvdl> jsgotangco: I liked your reply
<willvdl> I remember highvoltage coming across a wikipedia bundle put together by the red cross childrens' hospital
<jsgotangco> an LTSP setup here is quite unknown
<jsgotangco> the wikipedia DB is not big, but the images are
<jsgotangco> if you merge the data + media it may span to more than 4 DVDs
<willvdl> in tuXlabs we got reprimanded because some child stumbled across a hand-drawn karma sutra page
<jsgotangco> yeah wikipedia has that
<willvdl> Was amusing but serious at the same time
<jsgotangco> the wikipedia maybe useful for current events, but wikibooks seems a saner option
<willvdl> We packaged an offline snapshot (not the whole thing) and therefore were responsible for the content we provided
<RichEd> jsgotangco: skype up & working ... just added you to my contacts
<willvdl> The idea of using a snapshot the someone like Red Cross have gone through by hand is quite enticing
<RichEd> we'll give it a go on tuesday ... okay ?
<jsgotangco> sure thing
<RichEd> willvdl: yep got the mail ... goiong through them all now
<willvdl> It's a nice read. especially the recommendations if you just want to scan
<RichEd> coffee time comedy note ... have you guys heard this ? http://www.spaff.com/poesy/blog.html
<RichEd> I BLOG ALONE ~ Parody of Green Day's "Boulevard of Broken Dream
<willvdl> MY eyes! It burns! It burnses
<jsgotangco> agghhh
<jsgotangco> my virgin eyes@!
<RichEd> listen ... don't look :)
<willvdl> too late. it's burnt into my eyelids
<jsgotangco> RichEd: what's your skype ID?
<RichEd> richard.edubuntu
<jsgotangco> Cape Town, Somalia???
<RichEd> Cape Town, Somalia ??? RichED checks outside his window
<willvdl> Toto, RichEd's not in Kansas anymore
<RichEd> no UN observers spotted ... can't be somalia
<rodarvus> good morning
<sbalneav> ogra: pingity!
<ogra> sbalneav, pongity
<ogra> did you notice that ubuntu uses dash as default shell ? 
<ogra> no bashisms allowed :/
<sbalneav> Dash?
<sbalneav> No I didn't
<ogra> so we need to keep the tr pipe ... 
<ogra> sorry
<sbalneav> Thats ok
<ogra> another big prob i have here is that we move /tmp around during boot
<sbalneav> But, I had a better idea for the ldm...
<ogra> so .delayed-mount gets lost 
<sbalneav> ?!
<ogra> tmop gets bind mounted into a tmpfs during boot
<ogra> *tmp
<ogra> so it becomes rw
<ogra> .delayed-mount doesnt get copied along ...
<sbalneav> ah, ok, I didn't try right from a cold powerup
<ogra> if you plug in before login while ldm is up, all is fine
<sbalneav> that's what I was testing.
<ogra> but pre plugged doesnt work ... i'm hunting :)
<ogra> and cdpinger needs to use .delayed-mount as well 
<ogra> i wonder how evil it woud be to write to /dev
<ogra> (.delayed-mount i mean)
<ogra> dev is already a tmpfs in the initramfs and doesn tget moved anymore
<ogra> /var/run should also be possible
<ogra> whats your idea for ldm ? 
<ogra> i have the code we discussed yesterday running here ... works fine 
<sbalneav> about the other, though, we should make an exit script call in ldm.  After the fork, we could call something like "post-login-ldm", set up a small script similar to Xsesssion that will go through a post-ldm.d dir, and execute stuff in there.  That way, if we come up with more stuff that needs to be done post-login, it's easy to add (just drop script in post-ldm.d)
<ogra> yup, i thought the same ... but thats a bit much for now ... lets keep it in mind ...
<ogra> we cant rewrite the whole of ltsp in one chunk :)
<sbalneav> is it getting too close to freeze to make that change to ldm?
<ogra> ldm will get a lot of other stuff as well ...
<ogra> no, but i'm running out of time
<ogra> we need to get finished
<ogra> i have 12 sepcs or so ... and only until 7th of sept
<sbalneav> ok, then lets stick with delayed-mounter, we just need to figure out where to put .delayed-mount
<ogra> and i work extensively on one 
<sbalneav> Well, I'll of course help with them all :)
<ogra> sure
<ogra> but still ... not much time left
<ogra> i'll do some testing which dir might be appropriate
<sbalneav> absolutely.  So, if pitti approves the lbmount, lets just stick with the bindmount for not.
<sbalneav> now
<ogra> yep
<ogra> if he would approve ltspfs/d, then i could finally move on and add the scripts to the packages :/
<ogra> its still not in main ...
<ogra> i feel a bit stuck currently in that area ...
<sbalneav> ok.  I think all we need to do for floppies (legacy) is a udev rule (ive got one allready), and a simple if [ -f /dev/floppy ] ; then /lib/udev/add_fstab_entry floppy vfat; fi
<ogra> no
<ogra> s/vfat/auto/ please
<ogra> but the rest looks fine ...
<ogra> what do we do about unmounting ? 
<sbalneav> ltspfsd handles is, remember? :)
<ogra> the bindmount ? 
<sbalneav> that will get done during the add_fstab_entry.
<ogra> the removal of the bind mount :)
<sbalneav> your cleanup bit
<ogra> hmm
<sbalneav> ssh ... && ltspfsmounter cleanup
<ogra> so the floppy stays on the desktop all the session
<sbalneav> sure
<ogra> ah
<ogra> ok
<sbalneav> there's no way to check for media with floppies
<ogra> yes
<ogra> thast what i meant
<sbalneav> yeah, what we do on stock is just put it there.
<sbalneav> worstcase is, they click on it with no drive, and the floppy drive rattles :)
<ogra> yup, understood
<sbalneav> simple, elegant, and workable.
<ogra> well, elegant would be to have feedback from the HW like on cdroms ;)
<ogra> but its the best we can have :)
<sbalneav> yeah, but floppies have been broken for media detection for, oh, say 20 years, so I don't think we can solve that one :)
<sbalneav> we could conceivably have this finished up tonight.
<ogra> well ... we could invent an extension kit and ship ubuntu special floppy edition CDs with a soldering iron and a little circuit ;)
<sbalneav> lol
<sbalneav> I'll get right on it :)
<ogra> heh
<sbalneav> what'll be next after this, nbd swap?
<sbalneav> or the dhcp autoconfig?
<ogra> dhcp autoconfig is only installer hacking 
<ogra> well, fsvo only :)
<ulisse> ciao
<ogra> tast something i need to build many test CDs for etc
<ogra> ndb swap i would say ... but i need to see what rodarvus has already, we'll do that at the sprint
<ulisse> is it possible to have local sound on terminals? I only can play sounds thru the server...
<sbalneav> sprint's next week?
<ogra> yes
<ulisse> with ltsp, I mean...
<ogra> starting sunday
<sbalneav> ulisse: what is it you're trying to do?
<ogra> ulisse, create a lts.conf file in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/
<ogra> add:
<ogra> [default] 
<ogra> SOUND=True
<ogra> then all your clients will use local sound output
<sbalneav> Oh, I see what he's saying, I was thinking he meant running a local sound app like skype or something/
<sbalneav> ulisse: yep, that will work.
* ulisse tries...
<ogra> student-control-panel completion is high priority ... i should have that done by end of the month as well
<rodarvus> ogra, was scp approved at all?
<rodarvus> (or i'm mixing scp with ltspmanager?)
<ogra> and i can probably add the ldm-post-session.d thingie afterwards if i have the time to target ltsp-login-and-session-handling
<sbalneav> ogra: someone else was working on it yesterday, I think.  cbx33 i beleive?  Anything I can help with that?
<ogra> rodarvus, no, but that doesnt matter as long as its approved in the end
<sbalneav> morning rodarvus 
<ulisse> YEAH! It's working! Thanks ogra and sbalneav :)
<ogra> well, he does the biggest part (dbus integration) atm ...
<ogra> the other stuff is rather trivial 
<rodarvus> hi sbalneav!
<ogra> ltsp-manager is something i can work on after freeze ... its in universe and will stay theer for edgy
<sbalneav> guess my question is: what would YOU like me to start poking on after we get localdevs done?
<ulisse> I had already tried sthg similar, but with an older/different howto I found at ltsp.sourceforge.net... it didn't work
<ogra> sbalneav, https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs pick what you like :)
<sbalneav> rodarvus: how much have you done on pulling across our patches into nbd?
<ogra> sbalneav, but i think we should rather see that we get you up to speed with packagin ... make you a member and motu so you can package and upload ;)
<sbalneav> well, that too.
<sbalneav> :)
<ogra> :)
<rodarvus> sbalneav, this was the easy part, mostly done
<sbalneav> ok, cool
<rodarvus> I just have to cleanup it, and send upstream
<rodarvus> well, I propose sbalneav to apply for ubuntu-devel, on next CC meeting
<rodarvus> ogra and I will surely cheer for you :)
<ulisse> hmm... other question (I'm quite new to ltsp...): is it possible to access local drives? (hd, cdrom...)
<sbalneav> ulisse: hehe
<sbalneav> we're working on is AS WE SPEAK!! :)
<sbalneav> hang around and watch the exciting development!
<ulisse> wow! So it is better if I let you work... :)
<sbalneav> Not for dapper, but it will be in edgy.
<ulisse> np, I'll wait
<sbalneav> We promise it will be very sexy :)
<ogra> rodarvus, he needs to become member first :)
<rodarvus> right. that too >:-)
<ogra> (but tat shouldnt be *any* problem :) at least with the EC )
<rodarvus> indeed
<rodarvus> edubuntu-membership automatically gives ubuntu membership, doesn't it?
<ogra> the meeting after the sprint is an EC one
<ogra> yep
<ogra> bah, i got s used to listen to my music from the thin client from a usb disk that it starts to annoy me to develop on the scripts :P
<ogra> since i need to stop the music all the time :)
<ogra> i need more hardware !
<sbalneav> ogra: I think once we get the .delayed-mount issue sorted, and the quicky bit in for floppies, we're basically done, yes?
<ogra> yep
<sbalneav> ogra: want another thin client? I can bring you one in Sept!
<ogra> i have a bunch here 
<ogra> i just dont want to clutter the new office with tube monitors ...
<ogra> so i need new LCDs ... but amd currently a bit short on money
<ogra> (the move costed a lot)
<sbalneav> ah, you need flatpanels then!  I'll see if I can dig you one up.
<sbalneav> I think I have one I can give you.
<ogra> thick i can get it in a plane nowadays ? 
<ogra> you know the L in LCD stands for liquid ;)
<sbalneav> Sure, just check it, not carry on :)
<ogra> sbalneav, btw, did you test ssh with cipher=none ? 
<sbalneav> heh, did some testing at home
<ogra> and ? does it speed up as you thought ?
<rodarvus> I'm considering buying a LCD in Wiesbaden
<sbalneav> my rough calculation is...
<rodarvus> ogra, how much do you pay for a reasonable 19" LCD in Germany?
<ogra> rodarvus, nice, lets go shopping :)
<rodarvus> heh :)
<sbalneav> if we run with cipher = none, at 15 terminals you're only getting 20% more load than by just using gdm
<ogra> the one i brought to paris costed ~220
<sbalneav> so, performance wise I think it'd be good to push for,
<ogra> it as a special offer at a HW discounter here
<sbalneav> but, if the ssh maintainer doesn't want to include it by default, at a bare minimum, we should write up a howto on how to patch it, for the adventurous who want the performance.
<ogra> sbalneav, well, i dounbt we can convince the debian and ubuntu ssh mantainers. ...
<ogra> but lets try :)
<sbalneav> I think it would be well worth the effort to at least explain the reasoning.
<ogra> sure
<ogra> thats not the point ... i'm sure Kamion will understand it well ... but having the possibility to drop all cipher will be considered harmful by him, i'm pretty sure
<sbalneav> yeah, but it would be a very deliberate action on the users part.
<ogra> well, it will be one value to change in an upcoming ldm.conf :)
<sbalneav> keep all the config files the same so that None wouldn't be recognized.  They'd have to edit /etc/ssh/sshd_config on the server, AND specify ssh -C ...,None on the command line when sshing.
<sbalneav> not something likely to happen by accident :)
<ogra> true 
<sbalneav> I mean: you can also do an apt-get install telnetd in ubuntu, also a very deliberate act. :)
<ogra> rodarvus, thats a cheap discounter you find in nearly every city in germany: http://www.mediaonline.de/shop/category_5000_5000_-3_5000.13012.13014
* rodarvus checks
<rodarvus> LCD monitors are *quite* expensive in Brazil :/
<ogra> they start at 180 it seems  
<rodarvus> 180 would be an excellent price!
<ogra> sbalneav, right ... lets wait for Kamion ... 
<rodarvus> I'll be right back
<sbalneav> ogra: I'll throw an lcd in my luggage.  
<ogra> woah ..
<ogra> you really dont need to, you know that !
<sbalneav> No problem: anything I can do to make your life better.
<RichEd> ogra: all set for the sprint ?
<RichEd> (hi)
* RichEd is back later
<ogra> RichEd, not yet ... (i only have to drive 250km)
<ogra> thats quickly prepared :)
<sbalneav> In his Porche
<ogra> i hope so ...
<sbalneav> Which, so I understand, will bring him :)
<ogra> the valves are rattling quite evil
<rodarvus> I wonder whats the distance from Curitiba to Wiesbaden
<ogra> need to adjust them ...
<RichEd> well have fun on the autobahn ... rattles and all !
<ogra> if i dont find the time tomorrow, i will take the citroen ...
<rodarvus> ogra, take care on your way to Wiesbaden.
<ogra> sure :)
<ogra> its only german motorways ... nothing to fear :)
<rodarvus> right
<rodarvus> in Brazil you are not allowed to drive faster than 110 km/h
<rodarvus> there is only one freeway in the whole country where you can drive a little faster: 120 km/h
<ogra> heh
<rodarvus> medium sized trucks: 100 km/h. big trucks, 80 km/h. huge trucks, 60 km/h (and 30 km/h on hills)
<ogra> in germany you are a hazard with 120 ... you can either line up with the trucks with 100 on the right lane or need to drive faster ...
<sbalneav> ogra: just looking at the Xnest bug needed for the sabayon bit.  If I start Xnest on a terminal, it works fine.  So maybe it's just the way sabayon's STARTING the xnest?
<ogra> sbalneav, thats what i suspected ... but even that might be gone already
<ogra> i didnt look into it yet and was planning it for post freeze ... its a bugfix, not freeze critical
<ogra> so it has a bit more time ...
<ogra> right, works fine here as well
<sbalneav> Well, that's good.  Fix is likely to be easy then.
<ogra> i dont want to install sabayon now, but i bet it works already :)
<sbalneav> ogra: you want 1024x768 or 1280x1024? :)
<ogra> i have 1280x1024 already ...
<ogra> oh, pitti pinged in query
<ogra> meh
<ogra> he wont approve ltspfs and ltspfsd before next week ...
<sbalneav> is he going to audit them?
<ogra> well, he usually only looks at security bugs etc
<ogra> and at the packging 
<ogra> i hope he doesnt start auditing the code because he feels like 
<ogra> urgh
<ogra> indeed he did audit the code ...
<sbalneav> did he send you an email?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> he talks to me in pm
<ogra> he needs to rush out sapparently
<ogra> sbalneav, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportLtspfs
<ogra> sbalneav, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportLtspfsd
<ogra> he added comments ...
<ogra> no biggies on first sight (but dont ask for second :P )
<sbalneav> ah, ok, just the sprintf stuff. 
<sbalneav> I can fix that today.
<ogra> yay
<ogra> Keybuk promotes them anyway :)
<ogra> now they are in main :)
<sbalneav> ah, well, we'll fix pitti's concerns anyway.  Good to be nice to pitti.
<ogra> so i can add all the scripts to the packages ....
<ogra> right, but its always an un-calculatable value if he's involved ...
<ogra> you never know what he finds ...
<ogra> might take you days to get it right :)
<sbalneav> heh, I'd rather that than a sloppy guy who passes everything.  The two thing he flagged are a 1/2 hour's work.  I'm heading home in 1/2 hour to take delivery of a mattress, so I'll get to them then.  I'll let you know when you can do a cvs pull/repackage.
<ogra> good
<bddebian> Hello
<sbalneav> Hello bddebian 
<sbalneav> ok, I'm going to start heading home.  I'll log in once I get myself oganized.  Expect me again in an hour.
<bddebian> Hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> see you all in a bit.
<ogra> ciao
<willvdl> ping RichEd
<lucasvo> what do I need to get localdevices working(dvd)?
<ogra> a bit of patience :)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<lucasvo> ogra: currently not in edgy?
<ogra> nope, not yet
<ogra> the ltspfs packages moved to main about 30min ago
<ogra> now the scripts need to be added there
<ogra> and sbalneav has to do some small fixed on the suid wrapper we use
<sbalneav> Back again
<highvoltage> sbalneav: wb
<ogra> sbalneav, .delayed-mounts must move to /var/run ... and we need to create the /tmp/drives/mountpoint dirs for them in delayed_mounter ... working on it
<sbalneav> Awesome.  One supposes /var/run would be the "proper" FHS standard place for them anyway
<ogra> /var/run is used by udev as well, so we can always be sure thats available at any time 
<ogra>  /tmp sadly changes during boot
<ogra> argh
<ogra> as fstab does 
<ogra> gah
<ogra> thats why it doesnt mount ... damned 
<ogra> well ...  i guess we need to enhance the format of .delayed-mounts so we can create an fstab entry if its not there yet
<ogra> this bind mounting stuff to have rw files is hard :/
* ogra goes for a 30min break ... to clean the brain a bit
* highvoltage detects a smoke break :)
<sbalneav> He's just marking dead pages in the garbage collector.  We all need it from time to time :)
<highvoltage> absolutely
<pygi_> anybody have some time to test something for me? :)
<highvoltage> pygi: depends what :)
<pygi> highvoltage, "libburn-on-cdrecord" layer
<highvoltage> how do i do that?
<highvoltage> i don't have any bandwidth though :/
<highvoltage> i'm on gprs :(
<willvdl> eek
<pygi> highvoltage, ah, later then :)
<willvdl> was wondering what you did for bw
<pygi> thanks for good will tho
<highvoltage> lol @ good will
<highvoltage> nice pun
<jsgotangco> gprs eekkk
<pygi> highvoltage, just you laugh ^_^
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: it's how i've been connecting from home for almost the last year now :(
<highvoltage> willvdl: i'm actually thinking of getting a WBS card
<jsgotangco> huh? you must have loads of cash to do that
<willvdl> eeeeeek
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: it's cheaper in south africa than the rest of the world
<jsgotangco> i can imagine considering the state of wired telecoms there
<pygi> jsgotangco, lots of competition :)
<highvoltage> it costs between R0.50 and R2 per MB, depending on which package you are
<highvoltage> divide R by 6 for US$
<willvdl> highvoltage: mweb have a _decent_ish offering
<highvoltage> willvdl: i'm contemplating that too
<jsgotangco> is 3G still expensive there?
* highvoltage doesn't trust mweb
* willvdl nods
<highvoltage> 3g is the same price as gprs, basically
<willvdl> it's still vodacom
<highvoltage> willvdl: but i have to sign the contract with mweb ;)
* willvdl wonders if HSDPA is, in fact, a reality in cape town
<highvoltage> you're right though. their offer does look good
<highvoltage> they say on mweb's website that it's HSDPA
<jsgotangco> why not get an HSDPA card
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: that's the plan :)
<willvdl> jsgotangco: I have one. it is slightly more expensive but getting HSDPA speed is a myth
<highvoltage> we use the terms HSDPA/3G fairly interchangably here
<willvdl> or a female moth
<highvoltage> heh
<jsgotangco> heh
<willvdl> mybroadband.co.za has cool section on getting cards to work on linux
<jsgotangco> hmm is it just me or is it that planet ubuntu is like a spammer lately >:D
<highvoltage> how so?
<highvoltage> i think it sux a bit that people aren't using real hackergotchis :/
<pygi> soon you'll see k3b without cdrecord :)
* pygi uploads
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: wow, i see what you mean
<highvoltage> seems like Ubuntu Demon is taking out his forum-habits on his blog!
<pygi> highvoltage, http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7821/cdrskink3bxu3.gif
<pygi> enough bandwith for this?
<jsgotangco> ohhhhh
* highvoltage looks
<highvoltage> pygi: can i burn dvd's too with libburn?
<pygi> highvoltage, no, you can't :'(
<highvoltage> and is there any limitations on cd-writing?
<highvoltage> what can't it do at the moment?
<pygi> yes, there are limitations
<pygi> no -tao, no multi-session, no dvd support
<pygi> most notable lackings
<highvoltage> those aren't biggies for me
<highvoltage> i can't remember ever writing a multi-session cd on linux before
<jsgotangco> >:D
<highvoltage> and i mostly write data cd's, so i always write dao/sao
<highvoltage> pygi: is there a libburn howto somewhere?
<pygi> highvoltage, what exactly would you need?
<highvoltage> pygi: did i tell you before that I once had a signature that said "Solaris said: 'install solaris or better', so I installed GNU/Linux"?
<highvoltage> pygi: just to burn plain iso images to CD, nothing fancy. some bootable, but i suppose that happens at the mkisofs level.
<pygi> highvoltage, no, you haven't :)
<pygi> highvoltage, libburn is a library, but I have application for you
<pygi> http://libburn.pykix.org/wiki
<pygi> (do a checkout, and run:)
* highvoltage looks
<pygi> bootstrap
<pygi> ./configure
<pygi> make
<pygi> (do not use "sudo make install" for now, Makefile.am broken)
<highvoltage> ok, i'll put it on my download hitlist
<highvoltage> ok
<pygi> highvoltage, you have "burniso" binary under test directory
<pygi> it's very easy to use
<pygi> ./burniso ~/downloads/ubuntu.iso
<pygi> that's all you need :)
<highvoltage> how would i burn cd's from k3b then like you do?
<highvoltage> i mean, how would i replace cdrecord with it?
<highvoltage> wow, that is easy :)
<pygi> ah, to burn cd's from k3b
<pygi> I need to write tutorial for that :)
<pygi> highvoltage, let's start :)
<pygi> once you compile everything, you'll have "cdrskin" binary under "cdrskin" dir
<pygi> click in menu "Settings" on "Configure K3b..." , "Programs" , "Search Path". In the form enter the complete address of the cdrskin binary.
<willvdl> pumpkin time. lekker weekend all
<highvoltage> u2 will	
<pygi> click "Programs"...cdrskin should be default writer app
<pygi> highvoltage, you must test whetever cdrecord address of the writer is a valid cdrskin-address of the same device
<pygi> This can be tested by inserting a *blank* CD-RW into the drive (leaving any other drive empty) and trying to burn a K3b data CD.
<highvoltage> i think i'll check how big it is and try to download it
<pygi> if it isn't, I'll help then
<pygi> highvoltage, not big really
<pygi> and now, if addresses are good, you can burn
<pygi> if addresses aren't good, poke me
<pygi> highvoltage, btw. -tao is needed for burn-on-the-fly without knowing size of cd
<highvoltage> aah
<highvoltage> i rarely brun on the fly
<highvoltage> *very* rarely :)
<pygi> good, good ^_^
<pygi> highvoltage, I should fix the makefile.am soon, so you should *even* be able to install it
<pygi> I'll soon also have debian package
<highvoltage> *g*
<pygi> thanks for the help ^_^
<pygi> if you find any bugs or you miss something, file a ticket pls
<highvoltage> Checked out revision 5.
<ogra> sbalneav, done ! delayedmounting is working as expected :)
<sbalneav> Wooters!
<ogra> so whats missing apart from floppies ?
<sbalneav> I've just built another edubuntu box, and waiting for updates to download, once they do: sed -i -e "s/dapper/edgy/g" /etc/apt/sources.list
<sbalneav> Thats it, I think
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> I'm waiting for cvs to come back to fix the ltspfs[d]  stuff that pitti remarked on.  I'd expect I'll have that done in a couple hours.  You want to add the couple lines for floppies?
<ogra> i cant test them
<sbalneav> ok, tell you what: I may have some odd versions of things.  Can you tarball me up everything, so I'm running exactly what you've got, and I'll do it right now.
<ogra> take your time :)
<ogra> its enough to add the floppy part next week 
<sbalneav> oh, btw, s/.ltspfs-socket/.server-socket/ ?
<ogra> oh, right, havent done that yet
<sbalneav> cripes, we'll be talking in python soon
<sbalneav> :)
<ogra> yay :)
* ogra likes python :)
<sbalneav> for i in bugs:
<sbalneav>    i.fixBug()
<ogra> i.reject() ?
<bddebian> i.sitidle()
<highvoltage> lol
<ogra> oh, i forgot, we still need a nautilus patch to suppress the eject menuitem
<ogra> sbalneav, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-localdev.tgz
<sbalneav> Ooooo
<sbalneav> yum
<ogra> including the ldm changes
<sbalneav> Super!!!
<ogra> lucasvo, if you like the risk and want to play .... ^^^^
<ogra> theer are two subdirs (server/client) containing READMEs with instructions 
<ogra> but i'll likely package all the stuff over the weekend ...
<ogra> so if you can wait ... its just apt-get then :)
<ogra> sbalneav, that hasnt te socket namechange yet ... 
<ogra> i'll take a long break now, but will probably fix it later tonight
<sbalneav> I think you deserve a movie & a beer
* sbalneav slides ogra 2 movie tickets and a virtual beer
<pygi> highvoltage, how's k3b? :)
<lucasvo> ogra: I guess I'll wait
#edubuntu 2006-08-19
<sbalneav> Any ubuntu devs about?  I've set up an eft box, and now my gnome-panel uses up 50% cpu :(
<sbalneav> something's borkified.
<sbalneav> 4
<pygi> sbalneav, newest update?
<sbalneav> just installed it an hour or so.  Did an edubuntu dapper install, then dist-upgrade to edgy
<pygi> oh, fresh install is better
<mhz> pygi: I have been using my MMDE instance to generate docs for EHB
<mhz> I hope I can upload them soon this weekend
<pygi> mhz, nice
<pygi> hedge is kinda busy, but you, me, and she will get it done
<sbalneav> so I should grab a knot?
<pygi> sbalneav, sure
<pygi> or try to mess with current conf. to fix it
<sbalneav> hmmm, where's the knots at....
* sbalneav googles
<mhz> pygi: I just realized that my non-having web at home has made it difficult to me to get in contact with you all, but I have been doing progress on my part for EHB (the light desktops)
<pygi> mhz, don't worry, but we MUST have a meeting very soon
<sbalneav> what's the latest, knot 2?
<mhz> pygi: yup, but please email me with alternatives because this 'using cibercafes' is not best option for me to irc, unless very needed.
<pygi> mhz, I know, don't worry
<pygi> sbalneav, yes
<mhz> thx
<pygi> Burgundavia, hello
<Burgundavia> hey pygi
<pygi> how is you?
<Burgundavia> not bad
<Burgundavia> currently at ubucon
<pygi> oh :)
<pygi> gonna attend hungarian "Ubuntu Users Conference" as well?
<pygi> Burgundavia, poke? :)
<Burgundavia> pygi: yep?
<pygi> Burgundavia, the question? :)
<Burgundavia> you have a question?
<pygi> Burgundavia, "gonna attend hungarian "Ubuntu Users Conference" as well?" :)
<Burgundavia> not likely. I little far for me
<pygi> Burgundavia, oki 
<bddebian> Hello
<sbalneav> bddebian: ping
<sbalneav> Know of any gnome-panel bugs in edgy?  When I click on the applications menu, it just drops down and flashes, like it's constantly opening and closing.  There's nothing in my .xsession-errors
<bddebian> sbalneav: Not that I am aware of, sorry
<spiekey> hello!
<spiekey> i have the task to install 15 computers in a primary school and i would like to use GNU/Linux there.
<spiekey> now is the question what distribution. Ebuntu sounds to be the right choise, but is it available in plain german?
<spiekey> OpenSuSE is a german distribution which looks cool and smoth. I use it myself on my laptop. Why should i use ebuntu instead of SuSE?  :)
<highvoltage> edubuntu givees you access to a larger amount of software in its repositories
<highvoltage> it also has a predictable and reliable release cycle, which helps with planning
<highvoltage> additionally, each release is supoorted for 18 months, with the enterprise release (also free) with 3 years support
<spiekey> good points ;)
<highvoltage> edubuntu might be a bit more work to get it working exactly the way you want than opensuse, but in terms of maintenance and reliability, I would personally choose Edubuntu
<highvoltage> edubuntu also benefits of all the testing that has gone into Ubuntu. OpenSuse doesn't go through the same type of testing that Ubuntu does.
<spiekey> okok, you got me ;)
<spiekey> i will be able to install it in 9mins.
<highvoltage> I'm not so soure about the language support, but ogra, who is the main developer of Edubuntu, should be able to anser that for you (he's German too)
<highvoltage> he'll probably be here a little later.
<highvoltage> you might also want to add edubuntu-de to your channel list ;)
<pygi> spiekey, yes, it is available in german
<pygi> hey highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hey pygi
* highvoltage brb
<spiekey> so the only thing what ebuntu differs from ubuntu is the software repositiries?
<pygi> no, repository is same
<lucasvo> spiekey: not the repositories, they're the same, the installed packages differ
<pygi> lucasvo, that's kinda wrong
<spiekey> do you have some personal experience with the learning software? Is it useful or ready yet?
<lucasvo> spiekey: yes, it is
<spiekey> the school used to have win2k and a math and spelling programm they used. it was colorful, soundy and funny.
<spiekey> i need to be able to replace all this ;)
<lucasvo> spiekey: depends on what age your kids are, the software they can use has sounds or not
<lucasvo> spiekey: install one workstation and try to install the apps using wine
<spiekey> lucasvo: i am trying to get that running here with wine 0.9.19 but it fails :(
<spiekey> wine is quite slow, too. To switch to plain  OpenSource software would just be great.
<spiekey> but the school should also e happy with it. Thats the really difficult thing ;)
<pygi> spiekey, I do have experience with it
<pygi> I converted couple of schools to Edubuntu, and they are very satisfied
<spiekey> is a 800MHz box with 512MB Ram enough for such an installation?
<lucasvo> spiekey: for one workstation yes
<lucasvo> for a server with 3 cliens it should be ok as well
<spiekey> the server is a 800MHz Box, too.
<spiekey> currently it is a PDC for 4 win2k workstations and it seems to hande it well.
<pygi> spiekey, ugh, you know, rather get excellent server and then a cheap thinclients
<pygi> that's how edubuntu works in general
<pygi> bbl, lunch
<lucasvo> spiekey: for normal workstation installation that's enough
<spiekey> are 400MHz and 128MB ram enough for a thin client?
<lucasvo> yes
<RichEd> 'lo highvoltage : what was the CSIR kiosk link
<highvoltage> lo rich	
<highvoltage> http://www.digitaldoorway.co.za
<highvoltage> lo RichEd :)
<RichEd> high hivoltage ;) thanks for the link
<RichEd> highvoltage: do you do any kiosk work with Impi ?
<RichEd> and do you have recent contact details for gary fortuin ?
<RichEd> email or cell wold be nice :)
<RichEd> would ... (missed U ;)
<highvoltage> RichEd: no, we have not done any kiosk work with Impi
<highvoltage> and yes, I have recent contact with Gary Fortuin
* RichEd watches the answers unfold in front of his eyes
<ogra> wow, they plaster their schools with industrial ovens ? 
<RichEd> hi ogra :) did the porche make it okay ?
<ogra> why should it make it today ? 
<ogra> it starts tomorrow :)
<ogra> but i'm sure it will be all fine :)
<RichEd> porsche : i thought you were driving today ... premature
<highvoltage> RichEd: tel: (011) 575 4659, cell: 083 680 4400, gary@imlipinux.co.za
<ogra> no, i'm just perparing the packages for local device support, so i can have them next week to work on stuff
<RichEd> b.t.w. ogra some nice stuff unfolding with Intel & Canonical re: education
<ogra> cool !
<spiekey> ah! hello orga ;)
<spiekey> i was told you are german and i am currently trying to migrate a primary school (Grundschule) to GNU/Linux, ebuntu in this case.
<RichEd> highvoltage: scwheet my bra
<spiekey> are there some german documents out there which are short and pregnant and explain why we should use ebuntu for the school?
<spiekey> it would be cool if i could give the headmaster some short, non tecnical, infos.
<ogra> spiekey, sorry, sadly there is not much translated yet ... look for juliux ... ask him if he comes around, he's from the german community, i know they have some small stuff like flyers etc
<RichEd> spieky: I'm the education 1st point of contact for Canonical ... you can mail me on richard.edubuntu@gmail.com
<RichEd> i can send you some info from my official address, and see where I can help
<ogra> spiekey, show your headmaster a liveCD ;) that says more than 1000 words 
<spiekey> RichEd: i guess you mean german info stuff?
<spiekey> orga: live cds are slow ;)
<RichEd> not yet in german, but we can chat about what info works, and see if we can get a translation for you ... even an informal one
<spiekey> the real problem is not the operating system, but the app software i need to be able to replace.
<pygi> RichEd, if you have any suggestions for my presentations, that would also be great ^_^
<pygi> Tho, I do have some interesting ideas already ;)
<RichEd> we are preparing various case study / promo brochure documents over the next 4-6 weeks
<RichEd> spiekey: here is a good place to start ... 
<RichEd> spiekey: here is a good place to start
<RichEd> :P wait for the correct paste
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy
<spiekey> RichEd: 4-6 weeks? i need to present it in a week :P. hehe
<spiekey> thanks
<spiekey> i would be intrested to help with that if needed.
<RichEd> pygi ... can you send me a mail ... i don't always get a chance to pick up in IRC threads
<ogra> spiekey, i'm sure juliux has something he can send you immediately
<spiekey> orga: have you got his email address, too?
<ogra> but any help in that area would indeed be appreciated
<pygi> RichEd, oki, mail pls? :)
<RichEd> spiekey: ^^^  i would be intrested to help with that if needed : great we can help each other then
<pygi> ah, saw it
<RichEd> pygi scroll up approx 25 lines
<pygi> saw, thanks
<ogra> spiekey, juliux@ubuntu-de.org
<highvoltage> pygi! :)
<highvoltage> pygi: i wrote a cd with libburn yesterday, and it worked
<pygi> highvoltage, wow, over k3b?
<highvoltage> i didn't try it with k3b yet, i'll do that tonight
<RichEd> spiekey: send me an informal mail with some background to you & the request ... i'll see where we can synergise
<pygi> highvoltage, oki, glad to hear it works :)
<highvoltage> but i burned a cd from the command line and it just worked
<pygi> I even fixed the build system (do an "svn up") so you may even install it
<pygi> or just wait for packages
<pygi> debian dropped "regular" cdrtools btw.
<DrkLrd> RichEd, u there?
* ogra is afk again
<highvoltage> really? what do they use now?
<pygi> highvoltage, short-term solution will be forked cdrtools
<highvoltage> cool, so ubuntu will probably follow suite?
<pygi> I can't say, but I would assume so
<RichEd> yes oh evil master
<RichEd> (in stealth mode)
<pygi> highvoltage, guess what's long term solution :)
<highvoltage> libburn?
<pygi> ;)
<highvoltage> *excellent*
<pygi> not really, makes a lot of pressure
<RichEd> spiekey: can you cc me into these emails juliux@ubuntu-de.org ? although my German is not so good ... I will guess my way around with my knowledge of Afrikaans = a Kitchen Dutch
<pygi> RichEd, you've got mail
<pygi> highvoltage, but glad libburn works for you :)
<highvoltage> RichEd: reading german doesnt' seem so difficult for us, I tried to listen to ogra and dholbach speak, but they talk to fast :)
<highvoltage> pygi: now i just need a libdvdcurn :p
<highvoltage> s/curn/burn/
<pygi> highvoltage, that will never exist :)
<pygi> it'll be part of libburn :)
<highvoltage> nice
<RichEd> highvoltage: they probably speak an elitist german dialect designed to keep newbies intimidated ;)
<highvoltage> hopegully sooner, rather than later :)
<highvoltage> RichEd: i'm sure they do!
<pygi> highvoltage, we'll see :)
<pygi> I must find someone willing to do some ubuntu packaging work for now :)
<highvoltage> anyone seen Hedgemadge recently?
<juliux> !seen hedemadge 
<pygi> highvoltage, no, she's very busy
<ubotu> I haven't seen hedemadge recently
<highvoltage> what's she doing?
<pygi> highvoltage, that military thingy, vacation at her parents, etc.
<pygi> at least I think so
<juliux> btw is the edubuntu handbook ready?
<pygi> juliux, no, ofcourse not
<juliux> pygi, ok
<juliux> because somebody was asking me, he wanted translate it into german
<pygi> juliux, he/she can translate dapper one
<juliux> pygi, so the dapper one is finished?
<pygi> juliux, ages ago
<juliux> thats good
<pygi> it was published same day as dapper
<juliux> pygi, i was the laste month very busy, so i didnt see what happend ;)
<spiekey> mail sent. check your mails juliux and RichEd  ;)
<RichEd> danke spiekey 
<spiekey> bitteschn ;)
<juliux> spiekey, gelesen
<juliux> spiekey, where we only have german ubunut flyer not more
<juliux> -s where
* juliux need more tea
<RichEd> juliux: we haven't met ... but we need to get relationship going ... spiekey's request is a good place to start
<juliux> RichEd, yes it is
<RichEd> see: https://wiki.canonical.com/RichardWeideman
<juliux> RichEd, epiphany said i need a password
<juliux> :(
<spiekey> to get it starting...do we need some Edbuntu Requirement Specification or something?
<RichEd> oh ... let me send you via email ... and copy to edubuntu & ubuntu wikis later this weekend
<juliux> spiekey, where are you living? we show edubuntu on a couple of fairs every year
<spiekey> juliux: near Stuttgart. 
<juliux> spiekey, hm near stuttgart is not good there is no expo 
<spiekey> hehe
<spiekey> juliux: well, i am sure edbuntu rulez. the real problem is the "Marketing" here.
<juliux> spiekey, yes i know, but the marketing is not so bad, we had a lot of response on cebit and linuxtag in wiesbaden
<spiekey> once the staff wants linux its an easy game. but to get them that far is the difficult task.
<spiekey> juliux: i know, i have been there. :o)
<juliux> spiekey, ah
<spiekey> juliux: still, i would like to bring edbuntu to a school and it currently fails with non-technical information for the responsible staff.
<spiekey> something which explains opensource in 5-10 sentences, and then why in particular you want edbuntu in schools.
<juliux> spiekey, that is right
<spiekey> they really dont care that its stable and comes from ubuntu, etc.. :)
<juliux> i think we have to write something ;)
<spiekey> indeed! i am with you.
<spiekey> thats why i think we should start with a SRS :)
<juliux> spiekey, i started with this some month ago http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Edubuntu/Konzept to show the real price for an edubuntu installation
<spiekey> juliux: its a start :)
<juliux> yes it is 
<juliux> but the big problem is that there is no german shop where you can buy thinclients
<juliux> the shops who are selling thinclients cant say if they support pxe
<RichEd> juliux: intro email sent :)
<juliux> RichEd, thxs
<juliux> RichEd, you have a great job ;)
<RichEd> concidence: my first email email contact with someone called Mario ... and there are 2 in a row in my inbox : pygiMario & spiekeymario
<spiekey> juliux: well, thats the hardware part. I would also make a calculation with already present hardware.
<juliux> hehe
<RichEd> coatia & germany ... 
<RichEd> croatia :P
<RichEd> i guess we are different but all the same :)
<spiekey> huh?
<juliux> spiekey, yes sure, but the problem is that you have to now what hardware is in the school, and that is very different.
<pygi> RichEd, I am mario :)
<spiekey> i am too :)
<pygi> hello mario :)
<spiekey> hello! ;)
<RichEd> spiekey: pygi mailed me: Mario ani (Croatia) spiekey mailed me: Mario Ohnewald (Germany) 
<juliux> spiekey, the problem is that in some areas each school has his own budget for hard and software, in other areas there is on central office who is buying all the it stuff
<spiekey> juliux: this would requite a splitted Konzept. One with and one without hardware.
<RichEd> so i guess my job is pretty international but repetitive ;)
<juliux> spiekey, hm its an good idea
<juliux> spiekey, but then they only need a good documentation
<juliux> spiekey, and we need a marketing paper;)
<spiekey> juliux: yes, well...
<spiekey> indeed!!!
<juliux> something why to use edubuntu
<spiekey> yeess! ;)
<RichEd> juliux: [you have a great job ]  yes i do ... exciting but hectic ... this is the year of Ubuntu & Edubuntu ... growth & enquiries are exponential ... in volume (number of enquireis / projects) and implementations (number of installs)
<spiekey> lets say we have a Index. Index 1 is "Vorwort" or whatever.
<juliux> RichEd, yes it is hectic, i was this year on three expos to present ubuntu and edubuntu and there are three left ;)
<spiekey> 2. Requirements.
<juliux> spiekey, i think it should be only on din a 4 page not more
<juliux> s/on/one
<spiekey> 2.1 Hardware requrement. 2.2. Buy hardware if not present.
<spiekey> or something alike.
<spiekey> juliux: the markeing stuff, yes.
<juliux> spiekey, we should do that with some other people from the community in germany
* RichEd has to spend time with his kids ... to see if they remember what i look like
<juliux> RichEd, have fun
<RichEd> goodby to all Mario's, wherever you are
<spiekey> juliux: once they want it, you need a little tiny bit more infos which should fit on another DINA4 page or something.
<RichEd> and the rest of you as well
<spiekey> RichEd: thanks. and have fun!
<RichEd> :)
<juliux> spiekey, a double layer din a 4 page should be enough
<spiekey> juliux: kisas (keep it short and stupid)
<spiekey> but then the hardware calucaltion is a overkill in my opinion.
<juliux> spiekey, sorry but i have buy some food no before the shops close, i will be back in 1,5hrs
<spiekey> okidoke.
<spiekey> we really need a markeing concept here ;)
<pygi> highvoltage, el-torito support for libisofs :)
<spiekey> orga: you there?
<spiekey> what would you guys put on a flyer? 
<spiekey> i choose: Whats opensource? Whats Linux? Whats Edbuntu? How much is Edbuntu? Apps for Edbuntu?
<Yagisan> spiekey, you need to put on the flyer what it can do for them
<Yagisan> otherwise they won't read it
<Yagisan> need to sell the benefits of it
<Yagisan> eg "You can save hundreds of $$$ per year with Edubuntu"
<spiekey> good idea!
<juliux> and you have to write something about the apps in edubuntu
<juliux> and which kind of students should use the apps
<juliux> and away again ;)
<spiekey> argh!
<spiekey> well, you need to lie to the customer, right? You wont be able to explain why Linux is not a OS but just the kernel :P
<spiekey> check it out: http://cpp.sourceforge.net/?show=18980
<Yagisan> spiekey, I often never mention Linux to customers. I sell "Ubuntu" to them
<Yagisan> well, technically, I sell "Ubuntu" training and migration
<spiekey> well, in that case i would go even further and skip ubuntu, too. Start streight with edbuntu. Its not fair for ubuntu and GNU/Linux, but it will be efficient
<Yagisan> Haveing the live cd to demo is very handy
<spiekey> damn non-technical nerds!
* Yagisan -> bed. evening all
<spiekey> n8n8
<juliux> spiekey, do you want to make marketing for linux or for edubuntu?
<bddebian> Hello
<juliux> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Hello juliux
<spiekey> juliux: for both :D
<sbalneav> Morning all
<bddebian> Morning sbalneav
<sbalneav> Morning bddebian
<spiekey> hiho
<bddebian> Hello spiekey
<juliux> spiekey, so you want to make marketing for linux via edubuntu?
<spiekey> juliux: hehe, no.
<spiekey> they must use edbuntu and its tools.
<spiekey> did you have a look at my pastebin?
<juliux> your pastebin?
<spiekey> [15:08]  <spiekey> check it out: http://cpp.sourceforge.net/?show=18980
<juliux> ah
<spiekey> i wanna avoid that they get confused with linux/edubuntu
<juliux> spiekey, i will talk with some marketing people in de next week and will see if they have a good idea
<spiekey> okidoke
<juliux> because i have no idea what a non technical people want to have on a flyer, and what he needs to understand why edubuntu is cool
<spiekey> year, its best to ask some Zahlenschieber ppl ;)
<juliux> no not a zahlenschieber, we need marketing people 
<spiekey> well, yes. i was only kidding. sorry
<juliux> but i knwo some people who are makeing marketing for other opensource projects
<spiekey> thats cool!
<pygi> RichEd, poke
<spiekey> gotta go. cya
<cbx33> Hiya all
<cbx33> phew what a lovely weekend
<cbx33> well fri/sat
<highvoltage> cbx33: glad to hre that you're having a good time
<cbx33> highvoltage, stayed in a 4 start hotel for a night for lisa and mines wedding anniversary :p
<cbx33> s/start/star
<cbx33> how are you
<cbx33> seems like ages since we last spoke out of meetings 
<cbx33> brb
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<highvoltage> i'm doing ok
<cbx33> yeh#hows the projet?
<highvoltage> trying to relax but finding it a bit diffucult
<cbx33> now taht you are a company?
<cbx33> ah... 
<highvoltage> it's doing well
* cbx33 did all of his relaxing today and yesterday
<cbx33> went to the pool 4 times in 2 dys
<highvoltage> there's some exciting things happening, lots of local labs that are going to be installed
<cbx33> and spent some time in the spa !
<cbx33> Excellent
<highvoltage> some possible things in the future with canonical too
<cbx33> highvoltage, excellent
<cbx33> I'll be working more on SCP tomorrow
<highvoltage> i spent the afternoon with friends at the beach, but it was way too cold and windy
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> I've gotten some strange emails from ogra
<cbx33> he's sent me a load of stuff with some microsoft formatting......this isn't like him at all
<highvoltage> it's not really from ogra
<highvoltage> it's someone who uses outlook express that got infected, and now it sends those e-mails to everyone in their address book
<highvoltage> must be someone on one of the mailing lists, since we both get them
<highvoltage> someone did it spoofing janew's e-mail address too
<cbx33> ah ok
<cbx33> thought so
<cbx33> ogra NEVER mails me
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> ok I'll delete them
<highvoltage> there was a time where i deleted all mails that contained outlook express in the headers :)
<cbx33> heheh
<hlabs>  HI. I need some help . How can i setup my linux box to act as a network file server. Like i want my windows pc to store all files on the linux box
<bddebian> hlabs: Short answer, samba.  Longer answer, you should probably ask in #ubuntu.
<cbx33> hi ogra 
<cbx33> ping
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<hlabs>  ok how can i do a quota management on my harddrive
<sbalneav> You'd need to install the quota package, at a minumum
<sbalneav> Currently, I don't think there's a gui tool for quota management, do you'd have to do some command line magic )
<sbalneav> Quota's work best when you've got your /home folder on a separate drive.
<sbalneav> hlabs: http://yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxTutorialQuotas.html seems to have a good tutorial.
<hlabs> thanks for the help man
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<sbalneav> afternoon cbx33
<cbx33> hi sbalneav 
<cbx33> maybe yo'll know :p
<cbx33> ps --no-headers -o pid,cmd:60,%mem,%cpu,nice -aU pete
<cbx33> I have two users logged into a machine
<cbx33> running X sessions
<cbx33> I run that command 
<cbx33> and the nagain with the second username 
<cbx33> but I get some common processes, with the same pid?
<cbx33> can anyone explain this?
<sbalneav> hmm, need to look at the command line args.
<sbalneav> gimee a couple of secs
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> hm..... oh
<cbx33> ahhhh
<cbx33> I wonder....I think I know
<cbx33> nm sbalneav 
<sbalneav> I'm wondering if you're getting some common stuff from the -a
<cbx33> hhm
<cbx33> actually
<cbx33> ok I'll take that out
<sbalneav> -a includes process group leaders, so you might get a parent or two in there.
<cbx33> yeh
<sbalneav> everyone spawns from the same sshd
<sbalneav> so you'd get that in both places.
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> thank you
<cbx33> I missed that
<cbx33> I'm working from someone elses code
<sbalneav> Now I have a question for you!
<cbx33> ok shoot
<sbalneav> Know of any problems with ltsp in edgy?  My terminal can't find the nfs server.
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> still?
<sbalneav> showmount -e shows I've got /opt/ltsp exported
<sbalneav> ah, was this a known bug?
<cbx33> are you getting the problem where it just logs you out again?
<sbalneav> no, not that, it can't even boot.
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> updated sshkeys?
<sbalneav> I'm not even AT that point yet :)
<cbx33> :S
<sbalneav> just after kernel load.  I'm still in the initramfs
<cbx33> you mean the actualy server can't boot?
<cbx33> or clients?
<sbalneav> The server's fine.  It's the client that wont boot
<cbx33> what is the error, does it say?
<sbalneav> just hangs at "waiting for root"
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> have you tried mounting the nfs root from another machine?
<sbalneav> meh, I'll get it.  Heck, if I can't get this going, I'll resign my job as LTSP developer :)
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> sbalneav, I don't know of any problems
<cbx33> but rememebr 2 heads can be better than one
<cbx33> just shout if you still can't get it working
<cbx33> I'm not an expert but I can try
<sbalneav> I think it's just not realizing who's it's NFS server.  I just have to poke through the initramfs scripts a bit.
<sbalneav> just wanted to save myself the trouble if this was a known issue :)
<cbx33> is the DHCP serving the correct values?
<cbx33> sbalneav, did you check LP?
<sbalneav> Not yet.
<sbalneav> aahhhh
<sbalneav> seems to be a problem with ltsp-update-kernels
<cbx33> ahhhhh
<cbx33> :(
<sbalneav> hm
<sbalneav> maybe not
* sbalneav looks harder
<cbx33> :(
<sbalneav> ogra: pingity pong
<sbalneav> brb, switching to dapper box.
<cbx33> ping ogra it is done :p
<cbx33> all apart from VNC
<shaykid> Hi,  Im having a problem installing Edubuntu, can u answer a question ?
<pygi> shaykid, shoot
<shaykid> Hi,  Im having a problem installing Edubuntu (during LTSP chroot install), can any one answer a question ?
<pygi> shaykid, patience pls, patience
<pygi> all sleep now :)
<shaykid> hehe
<shaykid> ok
<pygi> so shoot, what's the problem
<shaykid> 
<shaykid> Ive installed Edubuntu 6.06 on an amd64 machine sucessfully. 
<shaykid> 
<shaykid> Im trying to install edubuntu 6.06 1 on compaq cpu:Intel 2.4 ram:1G machind and encountering a starnge problem 
<shaykid> The CD pass the MD5 test and all. 
<shaykid> 
<shaykid> The instalation hangs on when Building LTSP chroot is on 50% 
<shaykid> all i get is a black screen with 2 white squares (ascii) on the screen. 
<shaykid> This happens every time I try to install. 
<shaykid> 
<shaykid> (before it hangs up the console screen shows: 
<shaykid> 
<shaykid> warning: Fake start-stop-deamon called, doing nothing 
<shaykid> setting up ltsp-server (0.87) 
<shaykid> 
<shaykid> and in the package installation console 
<shaykid> after all the package installation and configure and all 
<shaykid> it says: 
<shaykid> setting up xserver-xorg 
<shaykid> and then it hangs up 
<shaykid> all i get is a black screen with 2 white squares (ascii) on the screen. 
<shaykid> i've shooted to much bullets ?
<sbalneav> The ltsp chroot install may hang for a few minutes.  Just let it sit for a bit and it should come back.
<sbalneav> I've seen this behaviour a couple of times.
<shaykid> u say simply wait ..
<shaykid> 10 minutes or so ?
<sbalneav> Yes, should be.
<shaykid> can it be an xorg - driver  problem ?
<sbalneav> No, it's trying to do some dns activity, and within the chroot environment, this sometimes fails.
<shaykid> OK, so u say, simply wait, let it  try etc.. for 10 mins or more ?, (btw -  all screen is disapeared, all is left is black screen with 2 white sqaures... )
<sbalneav> can you press <ctrl><alt><f2> and get a "Press enter to activate this console" message?
<shaykid> nop
<hlabs> is there any way that the admin can restrict the user from storing their files locally                                
<shaykid> all is stuck
<sbalneav> Hmm, then something's hung.
<shaykid> yep., any idea ?
<sbalneav> hlabs: Well, that's kind of hard on a thin client environment :)
<sbalneav> shaykid: I think one of the installation options you can pick at boot is not to configure the X server.  What kind of display card do you have in the machine?
<sbalneav> hlabs: Perhaps it would be better to describe what the problem is that you're trying to solve by not letting people save.
<shaykid> its a compaq evo d310
<shaykid> Graphics Controller 
<shaykid> Type 
<shaykid>      AGP 4x - integrated 
<shaykid> Graphics Processor / Vendor 
<shaykid>      Intel 845G 
<shaykid> Video Memory 
<shaykid>      Shared video memory (UMA)
<shaykid> details: http://www.windowsmarketplace.com/specs.aspx?itemId=348332&stext=
<sbalneav> can you boot a regular Ubuntu live cd on it?
<sbalneav> A simple solution might be to use the live cd installer to install Ubuntu, then once it's installed, you can use the package manager to install the "edubuntu-desktop" package.  This will turn your machine into an edubuntu server
<shaykid> good idea
<shaykid> I will rty
#edubuntu 2006-08-20
<hlabs> well here is my problem. I just started working for a call centre here in Oshawa and the thing is that all the agents that work here are storing all sorts of garbage on their work stations. Some of it includes porn. What i am trying to do is forcing them to store all the crap that they download to a network folder that would reside on my bosses pc. That way we can eliminate some of the wrongs being done here       
<hlabs> 
<pygi> Burgwork, I'll cry :'( SoC is a bad thing sometimes...
<sbalneav> hlabs: that's a simple one.  Anyone found with porn on their home directory gets fired. :)
<sbalneav> but, apart from that...
<hlabs> i know but its not that easy. The shifts rotate and the access codes are generic. 
<hlabs> so is there any way that i can do this
<shaykid> will edubuntu-desktop install ltsp as well ?
<sbalneav> Well, not easily.  Their home directories need to be writable, because their settings (backgrounds, menu items, icons, etc) need to be written there.
<sbalneav> shaykid: should.
<pygi> sbalneav, it will, but it won't be good
<pygi> he has to setup chroot by himself, yadda, yadda
<sbalneav> ah, well, that's easy enough
<sbalneav> hlabs: you might be able to do something like make their home directory owned by root, but make their .gnome2, etc directory owned by them
<hlabs> ok so how do i go about it 
<sbalneav> Of course, the smart ones will figure out that they can just store their naughty pictures in their .gnome2 directories. :)
<sbalneav> hlabs: Not sure, I'd have to experiment to see if it would even work.
<sbalneav> You might try google.  
<hlabs> well see the thing is that in windows you can just use quota management to do this trick.
<pygi> hlabs, you have quota here as well :P
<hlabs> but the way our network is setup. Using windows means inviting a whole lot of problems 
<sbalneav> what, to just set a low quota?  I already posted you the link for that
<sbalneav> if thats all you want, give them only a 5 meg home dir, then that's easily done.
<hlabs> is there something similar like a software or something that lets me do disk management.                        
<sbalneav> I already posted you the tutorial for that.
<sbalneav> More to the point is: how are they GETTING the porn on?  the simpler solution might be to install a web proxy, and limit the sites they can visit.
<sbalneav> If it's a call centre, they probably only need access to a few limited web sites, right?
<sbalneav> It's always easier to stop the bad stuff from getting in, as opposed to dealing with it once it's there.
<hlabs> well we used the ubuntu lamp server to setup a crm system
<hlabs> i tried the tutorial on quotas and i don't think i am upto the challenge of doing that. Since i already tried it and messed up a dummy machine big time                                       
<sbalneav> Is the crm system all they need access to?
<pygi> Burgwork, save me, please save me :'(
<hlabs> no the boss allows them to access the external net as well. 
<sbalneav> what, any site at all?
<sbalneav> Because if the boss has given them blanket access to the web, then what you've got there is a management problem, not a technology problem :)  Does your site have an acceptable usage policy?
<hlabs> we provide tech support for a shipping company and their new docs are always posted on the companys access portal . So with that being done. All the agents can pretty much go on the net. I managed to stop the p2p clients and bittorrent clients but its that they go over to search engines to get their junk                                                   
<hlabs> yeah. But some people here are really smart geeks. 
<sbalneav> Ah, well, that's easy, then.  If the shipping company's the only legitimate site, then either use a proxy to limit to only that site, or even better, use the firewall to limit access to only that site.
<hlabs> you wouldn't believe this. But one of the guys who got canned actuallly was storing porn in the sbin folder                             
<hlabs> hey thats a good idea
<sbalneav> Well, if that's the case, he's gotten root.  You need to keep up-to-date on your security patches :)
<hlabs> i will surely try that. But isnt there any way to lock up the disks
<hlabs> yeah we are working on setting up limited users. Using saybayon but so far i cannot find a way to lock up the local disk                          
* pygi cries once again
<sbalneav> I'll be blunt.  You're trying to solve a PEOPLE issue, with TECHNOLOGY.  It's doomed to failure.  What you need is: a clear, concise policy as to what's acceptible and what's not from management, with a clear statement of consequences if the rules are broken.  A quick bit of monitoring, with a few firing now and then will solve the problem.
<hlabs> thats a good point
<sbalneav> most importantly: you need 1 userid per person.  haveing supportguy1 through supportguy20 accounts, and having multiple people use the same account means you'll never be able to tack bad behavior to a specific individual.
<sbalneav> s/tack/track/
<hlabs> yeah i was pondering that thought my self now. I will change the user accounts now.        
<sbalneav> I've been a sysadmin for 18 years, and have caught 3 hackers, 2 of which had charges laid, and another that got deported.  So trust me on this one :)
<sbalneav> Anywho, kids are screaming for dinner.  Teenagers and their hunger :)  I'm usually either in #edubuntu, or #ltsp.  Let me know how you make out.
<sbalneav> I'll be on later.  You said you were in Oshawa.  If that's Oshawa, Ontario, always nice to see a fellow canuck on.  I'm in Winnipeg.
<sbalneav> Anywho, off to cook.
<sbalneav> bbl
<sbalneav> evening all
<bddebian> Heya sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey there bddebian
<LaserJock> hi scotty
<sbalneav> hey LaserJock
<bddebian> Gah, I hate C++
<LaserJock> I've never had the pleasure
<bddebian> LaserJock: Well like everything else, I hate it because I don't know it :-)
<LaserJock> oh, I just don't bother
<LaserJock> :-)
<sbalneav> It's quiet in here.....
<sbalneav> tooooo quiet
<sbalneav> :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you gonna start something?
<sbalneav> lets get this party started. unh huh, unh huh!
* sbalneav beatboxes
<sbalneav> the thought of which is even MORE hilarious, if you've seen me.
* LaserJock does his "Edubuntu rocks"  dance
<LaserJock> hehe, true
<sbalneav> :)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: but I thought you were a male model? ;-)
<sbalneav> Were you on the train with us in France the night the 16 year old kid got on and was doing the pelvic thrusts to music?
<sbalneav> We need that kid.
<LaserJock> haha, no I wasn't
<sbalneav> Shoulda given him an ubuntu cd
<sbalneav> yeah, he rolled onto the train with a dolly with a boombox + car battery, cranked up the Euro-synth-rap-tunes, and started dancin' like a maniac for coins.
<sbalneav> It was awesome.
<LaserJock> lol
<sbalneav> In Canada, they just ask for money.  I'm totally spoiled for European panhandlers now.
<LaserJock> I only saw the girl with the flute
<sbalneav> For a buck, I should get some entertainment, darnit!
<sbalneav> If it's the one I saw, she was pretty good.
<LaserJock> yeah, it was good
<LaserJock> but France got my wallet in the end so ...
<sbalneav> heh, yeah, but now you have a great story!  Any fallout from that?
<LaserJock> not really
<sbalneav> Did they try to rack up anything on the card?
<LaserJock> I don't think so
<LaserJock> I think they just wanted the money
<sbalneav> Phhht, where's the fun in that?  You want to phone up Visa and find out you've purchased a small greek island, or maybe a leer jet.
<LaserJock> it's funny how many "I got pickpocketed in Paris" I've heard since getting back
<LaserJock> hehe
<sbalneav> Heh, I think it's CALLED the "City of pickpockets".
<sbalneav> hold on, Google will know!
<LaserJock> hehe, it was soo funny
<LaserJock> at Ubucon
<LaserJock> we had quite a few google people
<LaserJock> and somebody was wondering something
<LaserJock> and Jim says "Google it"
<LaserJock> it was kinda funny
<sbalneav> Nope, appaerntly, thats either rome or Prague
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> What he SHOULD have said was: Look it up on MSN :)
<LaserJock> hahaha
<bddebian> heh
<sbalneav> or (better) "Lets Ask Jeeves!"
* bddebian used to love altavista
<sbalneav> heh, I remember when there only WAS altavista :)
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> yeah
<sbalneav> I remember when there was only Gopher
<bddebian> Oh man
<LaserJock> well, I'm not *that* old
<sbalneav> I remember when there was only Telnet, FTP, and SMTP
<sbalneav> and we LIKED it, darnit.  Couple of days reading of RFC's and you knew it all :)
<bddebian> Hehe, except for idiots like me
* sbalneav talks in his cranky old internet curmudgeon voice
<bddebian> sbalneav: How old are you?
<sbalneav> 38
<bddebian> Whoa someone older than me...
<sbalneav> Got my first Arpanet account back in 1984
<bddebian> <-- 36
<LaserJock> yeah, I bet you didn't have people filing HUG bugs ;-)
<LaserJock> more like "It actually works!!!"
<LaserJock> it takes me days to do anything, but it works
<sbalneav> I remember the first time I ftp'd a file down... from a server in japan.
<sbalneav> Ahhhh, memories.
<sbalneav> My very first account, I used a vt100.
<sbalneav> Not an emulator.
<sbalneav> a real one 
<bddebian> heh
<sbalneav> http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taouu/html/graphics/vt100.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taouu/html/ch02s02.html&h=650&w=800&sz=195&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=MQpFAFcCEsIyyM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dvt100%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:unofficial%26sa%3DN
<sbalneav> I also had an asr33 teletype machine at home.
<LaserJock> oh wow, that's cool
<LaserJock> my first computer item was a 386
<LaserJock> apparently I was spoiled
<sbalneav> Durned kids
<sbalneav> :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<sbalneav> the asr33 I had didn't have the tapereader like that one did.
<sbalneav> I also worked on a decwriter II, which was awesome
<sbalneav> http://hampage.hu/pdp-11/egyeb/la36.JPG
<sbalneav> My first home computer was a zx81
<bddebian> w00t
<sbalneav> Sorry, I know I'm being a bore. 
<bddebian> ZZZZzzzz
<bddebian> Hum, what? ;-P
<sbalneav> :)
<bddebian> Was the zx81 a Zenith?
<sbalneav> No, Sinclair
* Yagisan first had a c64. twas busted and thown away, so I had to fix it first
<bddebian> Oh, wow
<gotama> Hello
<gotama> I have just installed edubuntu
<gotama> How can I start the dhcp server manually and not at boot time?
<Yagisan> ogra, ping
<cbx333> mornin all
<pygi> hey ho ogra 
<ogra> hey
<pygi> how is you?
<ogra> busy
<ogra> packing for the sprint
<pygi> ah,oki :)
<juliux> morning
<ogra> hey
<kwak> hi, im new to edubuntu. how do i configure ltsp? ltspcfg?
<kwak> what is the root password?
<kwak> well no help. better do something else.
<bddebian> Howdy
<cbx33> Hiya bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi cbx33
<cbx33> howz it all going?
<control> !ru
<ubotu> Pozhalujsta vojdite v #ubuntu-ru dlq pomoshchi na russkom qzyke. Russian users please try #ubuntu-ru, there you may get more help
<control> 
<bddebian> cbx33: Fine thanks, you?
<cbx33> bddebian, yeh going good
<cbx33> working on scp at the mo
<bddebian> Cool
<control> anybody speak on rus?
<cbx33> bddebian, yeh it's going really well, learned so much
<cbx33> about dbus mostly
<bddebian> Nice
<cbx33> bddebian, is there a small app that will take a command line inut and turn it into a gtk dialog box
<bddebian> Dunno, sorry
<cbx33> ok I'll write one
<bddebian> You're an animal :)
<juliux> control, i learned at school but there isnt much knowledge left ;)
#edubuntu 2007-08-13
<sbalneav> Evening all
<melinate> hey there
<melinate> anyone have an idea why my DHCP server is working for workstations, but is not detected for PXE boot?
<sbalneav> Please paste your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file to the pastebin.
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<melinate> sbalneav: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33522/
<melinate> thanks
<cliebow> melinate:completely stock right..?
<sbalneav> Looks stock.
* cliebow cliebow looks back'
<sbalneav> Do you have other dhcpd servers on the network?  Perhaps you can describe how you're network's laid out a bit?
<melinate> sbalneav: don't think so... I have the edubuntu server a switch and one client turned on... the server isn't even plugged into a gateway
<cliebow> sbalneav, he has an hp vectra with two choices in bios..tcp/ip or pxe
<cliebow> he gets some response from the tcp/ip option
<cliebow> none form pxe..
<sbalneav> PXE's what you want.
<melinate> right.... pxe says no dhcp offered
<sbalneav> What does /var/log/daemon.log say
<melinate> but I can boot edubuntu workstation with dhcp and it fetches an IP :/
<sbalneav> Paste a few lines, that's where dhcpd logs to
<melinate> one sec
<melinate> okay... like I said the server is on it's own network so pasting is a bit impossible... but I just did a "tail -f" and there was no request made during the PXE boot
<melinate> if you think there is a problem with the PXE I'd be fine booting from CD or HDD, but I'm not sure how to determine which settings to use fro rom-o-matic.net?
<sbalneav> I'm sorry, thought you said you were using the bios boot.  Are you using etherboot?
<cliebow> melinate:can you boot your client to a live cd..to determine pci id of your network card?
<cliebow> yes i think this was bios option
<cliebow> once you positively id your network card you eill knoe which floppy image to use in romomatic..
<melinate> cliebow: I have edubuntu workstation installed on the hdd already... I'll log in... where do I see the pci id?
<melinate> it is a bios option that lets me choose between two network boot options... PXE and TCP/IP [with sub choices of DHCP or BOOTP] 
<sbalneav> You want pxe and dhcp
<melinate> sbalneav: that's what I have it set to now, but it appears the pxe is not actually making a dhcp request [nothing it showing up in the /var/log/daemon.log when booting the client] 
<sbalneav> Is the dhcpd started?
<sbalneav> ps -ef | grep dhcpd
<boyam> melinate: got in on your problem a little late...but does that hp vectra use intel lan desk when it boots via pxe....the way you can tell is when the machine boots via pxe, it will display at the top of your screen "Intel Landesk blah blah blah....."
<melinate> sbalneav:  yep... it's running and I can see that it is loading the right .conf file
<melinate> boyam: yea I see a message like that at login
<boyam> melinate: your problem sounds real similar to a problem i had booting with some old IBM Nics tha used Intel Lan Desk ver 0.99..
<melinate> I was afraid it might be a problem related to the age of the hardware...
<boyam> melinate: i found a site that fixed my issue...don't  know if it will work for you but you can give it a shot..
<melinate> boyam: cool thanks
<boyam> melinate: hold on let me fetch the url..
<boyam> melinate: http://yogharp.wordpress.com/2007/03/01/class-room-ltsp-with-edubuntu/
<boyam> melinate: I had some old PII's that had a buggy version of Intel LanDesk...once i adjusted the conf's from the url I gave you, the nic's could see the dhcp server...
<melinate> boyam: cool.. I
<melinate> I'll give that a try
<boyam> sbalneav: didn't mean to take over, but the problem seemed sooo familiar to me...
<sbalneav> Not at all
<boyam> i spent a few hours scratching my head over this one..so i remember the symptoms very well....not to say it will work for melinate...but it's worth a shot
<melinate> yeah I've been on this one a few nights now :)
<boyam> ;)
<melinate> boyam: looks like dhcp worked in the article, but the problem was with the tftp... maybe I can flash my bios or something
<melinate> looks like there is a new bios version... I'll try that and see if I can get any further
<boyam> melinate: no...the article clearly says PXE coulnd't find dhcp server same symptom i had with the old PII's.....the fix was adding -r blksize to the tftp line in inetd.conf...as well as adjusting sysctl.conf as the article states ...yes, if you can flash bios, that may help  you....
<sbalneav> Whoohoo
<sbalneav> New greeter's done
<LaserJock> \o/
<sbalneav> So, ldm's gonna have scalability features
<sbalneav> You can have lots of hosts, and have load balancing.
<sbalneav> Gutsy's gonna kick butt.
<johnny> sbalneav, all i had to do to make it work, was remove the server's hostname from /etc/hostname
<johnny> so.. yes dnsmasq works great
<johnny> the autologin works a treat now
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<zsh> hi
<zsh> I run ltsp on gutsy
<zsh> without nfs, and I need a different keyboard layout
<zsh> XKBLAYOUT=de do not work
<zsh> could it be, that this is not yet implemented in ldm2?
<cliebow> zsh, might check with Scott when he comes in..he was up late last night though
<zsh> cliebow, ok
<cliebow> !seen sbalneav
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen sbalneav - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<cliebow> whoops..wrong ch.
<cliebow> zsh:rattle ogra's cage..he can surely help
<zsh> hi ogra
<ogra> whats up _
<ogra> _
<ogra> hmm ... why is mz keymap broken
<ogra> yyy... zzzz
<ogra> ahh, better
<ogra> zsh, whats your prob ?
<zsh> ogra, perhaps you have the same problem, then me :)
<zsh> how can I set the keyboard layout in ltsp on gutsy
<ogra> no, i was just playing with xgl ... crappy and buggy as hell :)
<zsh> XKBLAYOUT=de does not work
<ogra> the default should be set to the servers X keymap
<ogra> you can override it with XKBLAYOUT
<ogra> but note that the location of the lts.conf changed
<zsh> my lts.conf works now
<ogra> it's used from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
<zsh> I have also this: CONFIGURE_X=False
<zsh> yes
<ogra> aha
<ogra> remove that
<ogra> that causes X to not use a config at all ... which means it falls back to defaults ....
<ogra> which is great for graphics detection, but sadly still sucks for keyboard and mouse
<zsh> has this something todo with config-less xserver?
<ogra> (thats why we use a new x configrator nw)
<ogra> *now
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWithoutNFS
<ogra> see that page
<zsh> will the new x configurator get a own lts.conf option for keyboard?
<ogra> no
<ogra> it will just use the old variables
<ogra> just remove the CONFIGURE_X=False from your /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
<zsh> ok
<ogra> and also make sue your chroot isnt outdated ... tere was a lot of development the last weeks
<cliebow> bbl
<zsh> ogra, ok
<zsh> ogra, thx it works
<ogra> :)
<ogra> i wonder why it didnt pic your servers keymap first place though
<ogra> is that set to german ?
<zsh> where can I check this?
<ogra> ogra@laptop:~$ cat /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/environment
<ogra> PATH="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games"
<ogra> LANG="de_DE.UTF-8"
<ogra> LANGUAGE="de_DE:de:en_GB:en"
<zsh> I did a edubuntu server "console-system" installation by the way
<ogra> ogra@laptop:~$ grep KB /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/default/console-setup
<ogra> XKBMODEL="pc105"
<ogra> XKBLAYOUT="de"
<ogra> XKBVARIANT="nodeadkeys"
<ogra> XKBOPTIONS=""
<ogra> well, that shouldnt matter if you choose german as default during install
<zsh> I have only: PATH="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games"
<zsh> LANG="de_DE.UTF-8"
<ogra> the ltsp-build-client script copies the defaults from the server to the client
<zsh> ../console-setup seems ok
<ogra> thats the one that counts for X
<ogra> strange
<zsh> in .../environment I have no LANGUAGE variable
<ogra> thats fine
<zsh> a bug in ldm2?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> x configuration has nothing to do with ldm
<ogra> it runs before ldm even starts
<zsh> I could also choose no language in ldm2, but I think, this is not yet implemented
<ogra> it is, just not packaged yet ;)
<ogra> ldm2 is done since the weekend ...
<zsh> ok :)
<zsh> oh great
<ogra> i'm waiting for scott to sort out the last bugs and will merge this week
<ogra> host, session and lang selection work ... autologin, unencrypted X, expired password handling and error feedback work ... and it has a lot of new themes
<zsh> which advantage has "unencrypted X"?
<ogra> speed
<ogra> if you have small CPUs in the clients or want to watch movies
<ogra> for both it helps
<zsh> but the network traffic?
<ogra> is nearly the same
<ogra> encryption only encrypts
<ogra> it doesnt compress
<ogra> so you have the packages being encrypted/decrypted all the time
<ogra> that doesnt raise any network load
<ogra> but puts load on the CPUs on both sides
<zsh> I tried it and ... I am not sure... but I think it was a least twice the network load
<zsh> I have to try it again
<ogra> it shouldnt
<zsh> ok, I will try itagain
<ogra> in any case it drops latency for video etc
<zsh> btw, are there plans to integrate NX?
<ogra> not before NX isnt sane, no
<zsh> I will integrate the NXclient, for us now
<zsh> it shouldn't be to hard
<ogra> thats great, if you have a proper screenscript for that feel free to contribute it )
<ogra> :)
<zsh> ok
<ogra> so users oly need to install the nx client in the chroot and set SCREEN_07=nx or so ...
<ogra> i guess local devices and sound will make probs thogh
<zsh> yes, its a shame that NX is not in an acceptable shape
<ogra> yup
<zsh> we will not need it, but we need a very stable system
<zsh> today
<zsh> and the session management of freenx is today quite good
<ogra> you can detach and reattach, right ?
<zsh> and the session-management is shared between, ltsp-clients, NXclient on Linux, nxclient on windows, this is great for us
<zsh> yes
<zsh> if the connection breaks, the session supends on the server
<ogra> i was looking at xmove for ltsp to do that ...
<ogra> but sadly thats pure crack
<ogra> another option would be to run xvbf as default X server on thin client connection and write something that can attach to it ad forward the display
<ogra> so xvfb would run for every user all the time and you can attach/detach as liked
<ogra> indeed that raises the server reqs a lot
<zsh> hmm
<zsh> it would be a nice feature
<ogra> yep
<zsh> a perfect session-cleanup after a crash is needed
<zsh> some gnome-programs make trouble after a crash
<ogra> no
<ogra> fixing the gnome apps is needed
<zsh> e.g. gnome-panel "gnome-panel is already running" after reconnect
<ogra> that should be fixed since some time
<zsh> in feisty
<ogra> hmm, i dont have that in feisty, but i saw something on the mailing lists iirc
<ogra> someone had a crashed gdm on the server or so .. the missing socket caused that
<zsh> with kde I didn't have such problems, but I favor it
<zsh> but I DON'T favor it ;)
<zsh> I said nothing against KDE ...
<netdog> kbye
<gduteil> country
<sbalneav> Morning all
<ogra> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey, how's it going?
<ogra> so so ... diggin through my weekend mail etc ... poking around in ltsp-manager a bit now ...
<sbalneav> man, I've been hacking like a madman to get things done for upstream freeze.
<ogra> i saw that
<sbalneav> Oh, excellent.
<sbalneav> I did some updates to the ltsp-update utils
<ogra> "First stab at integrating completed greeter and ldm.  Horribly broken.  Will fix tomorro"
<ogra> kept me from merging yet :)
<sbalneav> heh
<ogra> yeah, saw that
<ogra> i commented on one of the bugs
<sbalneav> Oh, ok.
<ogra> the image needs to know as well that you changed the nbd port
<ogra> we have nbdroot or nbdport as kernel variables for this
<sbalneav> Did adding the -b base options make sense?  Hopefully that moves us closer to squashing the "hardcoded /opt/ltsp" bug.
<ogra> there needs to go an entry into /etc/default/ltsp-update-kernels in the chroot for thsi
<sbalneav> Did I change the nbd port?
<ogra> well, i wouldnt invent new options ...
<ogra> should be --base etc
<sbalneav> How do you do the gnu longopts then?  I was using dash's getopts builtin.
<sbalneav> I couldn't find something for the longopts
<ogra> sbalneav, if you add an option like -p it needs to change the ports on both sides
<ogra> ;)
<sbalneav> Oh, that
<sbalneav> yeah.
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> Well, the reason I did that was because the update-image was just randomly picking a port anyway if 2000 was in use.
<ogra> i dropped the code that did increment the portnumber by one when i merged the nbdroot code from MrMoo
<ogra> i just didnt come around to reimplement it with the new varables yet
<sbalneav> ah, ok, I haven't merged from your tree in a while.
<ogra> that was before the tribe
<ogra> you merged that already
<ogra> i was just to busy with the tribe release to add that bit, feel free :)
<sbalneav> Hey, I got all the UI stuff done for the greeter.
<sbalneav> Including not popping up a host dialogue if there's only one host.
<ogra> http://docs.python.org/lib/module-ConfigParser.html
<ogra> did you know that one ?
<ogra> (just diggin for helpful stuff for the ltsp-manager backend)
<sbalneav> Yeah!  I've seen that one before.
<ogra> seems like they had lts.conf in mind with it :)
<sbalneav> Pretty handy.
<sbalneav> Are you still getting crash reports on nbd-server on startup?
<ogra> nope
<sbalneav> Hmmm
<ogra> at least not since i upgraded this morning
<ogra> let me reboot to check ...
<ogra> ergh
<sbalneav> or, just restart nbd
* ogra knew using xgl was a bad idea
<ogra> i cant log out :P
* ogra fixes
<ogra> sbalneav, all fine here
<sbalneav> hm
<ogra> sbalneav, i just remembered it telling me something about a deleted config
<ogra> do you have /etc/nbd-server/config ?
<sbalneav> yes
<ogra> whats in it ?
<sbalneav> [generic] 
<sbalneav> # If you want to run everything as root rather than the nbd user, you
<sbalneav> # may either say "root" in the two following lines, or remove them
<sbalneav> # altogether. Do not remove the [generic]  section, however.
<sbalneav>         user = nobody
<sbalneav>         group = nobody
<sbalneav> # What follows are export definitions. You may create as much of them as
<sbalneav> # you want, but the section header has to be unique.
<ogra> thats all ?
<sbalneav> that's it
<sbalneav> what does yours have?
<ogra> its not there
<ogra> i might have deleted it at some point
<ogra> adding the file and restarting it doesnt produce any segfault
<highvoltage> hello ogra
<sbalneav> ok, just my system then
<ogra> hi highvoltage
<ogra> sbalneav, if you remove the file does it still happen ?
<sbalneav> I'll check
<ogra> ogra@laptop:~$ dpkg -l nbd-server|grep ii
<ogra> ii  nbd-server     1:2.9.6-1
<ogra> does the version match ?
<sbalneav> yeah, same as mine
<ogra> weird
<ogra> i havent seen any crashes since the upgrade
<highvoltage> ogra: I was just wondering, is NBD a big implementation? would it be a big deal to write into something like etherboot or pxe? if it's easy, perhaps canonical can use its relationship with intel to get nbd in there, and elimate the need for tftp as well.
<highvoltage> heh, that actually sounds more outragous now that I've typed it out :)
<ogra> highvoltage, well, it needs a bunch of binaries etc
<ogra> i bet its to big for something like PXE and etherboot
<highvoltage> yes, pity.
<highvoltage> I just love it so much that ltsp doesn't need nfs anymore, it would be so nice if it was possible to eliminate tftp too. then again, tftp is so incredibly light.
<highvoltage> heh, ok I read the PXE spec just now, removing tftp will never be... trivial.
<ogra> well, you wanted to replace tftp
<ogra> didnt you ?
<highvoltage> yes
<ogra> ;)
<highvoltage> it's just a kernel, just one little stream of data that needs to move from one machine to another! I don't want to run a whole service for it!!!!! :)
* highvoltage goes off to find another thing to obsess about
<highvoltage> omg. http://www.intel.com/support/network/adapter/pro100/bootagent/sb/cs-008191.htm still lists Red Hat 6.1 as an OS that supports PXE
<highvoltage> they should really list Ubuntu+LTSP there.
<bddebian> Heya
<highvoltage> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi highvoltage
<monteslu> anyone know why there's two dhcpd.conf files on edubuntu?
<ogra> monteslu, because we didnt want to break or override existing configs with something that could be modified by a script or so ...
<edubuntugirl> ogra: by the way, highvoltage told me to tell you 'ouch, here's another doc that contains bad info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LTSPHowTo' 1 day, 8 hours, 39 minutes and 30 seconds ago (on Sun Aug 12 11:33:58 2007)
<ogra> monteslu, so the file from /etc/ltsp will be used as default while not touching /etc/dhcpd.conf ...
<ogra> bug 120747
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120747 in linux-source-2.6.22 "[gutsy]  2.6.22 kernel option vga=xxx does not work " [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120747
<cbx33> oh ogra i noticed some funky stuff happening on an edubuntu install at the ltsp root builder portion
<cbx33> basically crashed the graphics and ui
<ogra> funky ?
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> i have a video
<cbx33> it's very strange
<cbx33> thought i'd let you see it
<ogra> well, i got a bugreport about that yesterday
<cliebow> cool...internet porn
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> ogra, got a link?
<ogra> so it seems not unique
<cbx33> lemme get the vid
<ogra> bug 131580
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131580 in ltsp "ltsp-build-client restart X server of the host" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131580
<cbx33> it's just processing
<cbx33> ogra, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6OExe0rHos
<ogra> what kind of graphics card ?
<cbx33> hmm i can get that info tomorrow
<cbx33> sorry it was an Avantis Content Cache box
<cbx33> it's not a great card tbh
<ogra> well, thats not related to ltsp at all
<ogra> thats the step long before ltsp-client-builder runs ...
<ogra> the thing thats running on the screen is pkgsel ... thats one step before ltsp even starts
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> sorry
<ogra> i'd rather see that as a framebuffer issue
<ogra> can you reproduce it ?
<ogra> if so, try with different graphics sessiongs from the CD bootmenu
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> sorry ogra
<ogra> and see if it goes away
<cbx33> i know the second time i tried it it happened at the client buikd
<ogra> likely framebuffer then ...
<cbx33> ok
<monteslu> anyone got a link to the list of variables for lts.conf variables?
<monteslu> could have sworn I saw one on the ubuntu wiki, but can't find it now
<sbalneav> monteslu: it's in the edubuntu handbook
<timma> I am having trouble with a new install.  Thin Client Manager says the client needs x11vnc installed.  And my server has no sound card, but my clients do and they do not work.  How do I install x11vnc?
<sbalneav> timma: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients
<monteslu> sbalneav, thanks
<sbalneav> Out for a bit, be back later
<timma> okay, thank you sbalneav
<timma> I am having trouble with apt sources.
<timma> sbalneav how do I resolve the sound issue?
<sbalneav> timma: Is the sound card on the client recognized by the kernel?
<sbalneav> What sound card is it?
<timma> sbalneav I think I need to activate local devices.
<sbalneav> They're activated by default
<timma> I checked it and it is but the local cd and sound do not work, possible even the usb...
<sbalneav> Is the user you're tesing under in the fuse group?
<timma> no, but I added it and I went to user properties and then privileges and added use audio devices, cd and floppy
<sbalneav> did you add fuse?
<sbalneav> You have to log out and log in as well
<timma> sbalneav sorry.  Okay fuse is working.
<timma> foppy and cd
<timma> so sorry to switch back, sbalneav.  according to dell website, most clients have Crystal Semiconductor  CS4236
<timma> \
<sbalneav> Never heard of that before.
<timma> sbalneav sorry, is there a way to detect my sound card?
<sbalneav> Don't know.  Does the thin client load any devices for it?
<sbalneav> Have you set a root password in the chroot, and seen if it's got any snd- modules loaded?
<timma> sorry what command?
<sbalneav> For what?
<timma> to see what modules are loaded?
<sbalneav> lsmod
<sbalneav> on the thin client.
<sbalneav> won't do you any good on the server
<timma> Opening /proc/modules: No such file or directory
<sbalneav> Are you doing this on the thin client, on a text login screen?
<timma> on the server, chroot into /opt/ltsp/i386
<sbalneav> that won't work
<sbalneav> you'll have to do it on the thin client itself.
<sbalneav> That's why you'll need to set a root password on the chroot
<sbalneav> so you can login on the thin client itself.
<timma> How do I set the root password?  on the server?
<sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<sbalneav> passwd
<boyam> sbalneav: so sudo doesn't work from the thin client? ...i've never tried it...i'm a newb as well :)
<monteslu> boyam, gksudo
<monteslu> learned that friday
<boyam> monteslu:aww..thanks...
<boyam> sbalneav: did the person yesterday who had the dhcp issue...who i gave the link to...did they resolve their issue?...i couldn't stay around long enough to find out....if you remember
<sbalneav> No, I don't
<sbalneav> I help so many people, I don't keep track
<timma> sbalneav I change root
<timma> changed root password
<sbalneav> ok
<boyam> sbalneav: not a problem...i fgured as much....just curious...
<sbalneav> timma: so, now you can log in on ctl-alt-f1 on the thin client, and see if the sound card's recognized.
<monteslu> handbook looks like it has an error
<monteslu> isn't XMD_SERVER XDMP_SERVER ?
<monteslu> or something like that?
<monteslu> is there udev rules stuff that needs to be done for thin clients connected to printers?
<monteslu> this distro is great and everything, but my god, it is more difficult to set up than ltsp4.2
#edubuntu 2007-08-14
<sbalneav> ogra: Hey, wake up!!
<zsh> hi all
<RichEd> hi zsh
<JonNoob> Need help.... I've setup samba on my Edubuntu feisty server. It is setup to authenticate users with my Active Directory. It works great except my users can't access their home from windows.
<zsh> it is not direct edubuntu related, but does someone know, how I can start a hidden xterm, without a WM?
<encompass> zsh: what do you mean by hidden?
<zsh> I try to start an NX-client on a LTSP-gutsy thinclient, and I need to start nxclient from an xterm
<zsh> it works, but now I have an xterm ontop of my NX-Session
<zsh> I can resize xterm to 1x1, but 1x1 I can still see
<ogra> zsh, what for do you need that term hidden ?
<ogra> or better, do you need the X server visible ?
<ogra> (you could use Xvfb to start X apps hidden)
<ogra> but xvfb means no display at all
<zsh> can the hidden X-app start a visible X-app?
<ogra> no
<ogra> what do you want to achieve ?
<stgraber> zsh: can't you do : DISPLAY=:6 nxclient ?
<ogra> oh
* ogra is blind
<zsh> I try to explain the whole problem
<ogra> wha cant you start it from a session script ?
<ogra> *why
<zsh> the "solution" with xterm is only a hack
<ogra> have a look at the scripts in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/screen.d/
<zsh> if I start nxclient with DISPLAY=:6 it starts
<ogra> thats what you can use with the SCREEN_xx variables
<zsh> I get the gui, for configuration and login
<zsh> ogra, I understand this
<ogra> so grab one of these scripts, implement that proper in it and we can add it to ltsp ;)
<ogra> so users can install xn client and set SCREEN_07=nx
<zsh> and after the login-windows, the NX-client start a few other processes
<zsh> ogra, yeah I did all that, but listen
<zsh> nxclient starts e.g. nxssh
<zsh> und the NX-Xserver
<ogra> locally ?
<zsh> I dont know how this get started
<zsh> yes
<zsh> if I start the NX-client within xterm it all works
<zsh> if I start it with "xterm ../path/to/nxclient" only the login screen works
<zsh> if I start it with "xterm -hold ../path/to/nxclient" everythin works
<zsh> can someone understand this?
<zsh> it took me more then 3 hours :(
<zsh> but, with the current solution I have a xterm on top of my NX-session
<zsh> does anyone need more infos, to understand?
<zsh> btw, I start nxclient with: xterm -hold -e /bin/bash -l -c "`/usr/NX/bin/nxclient`"
<zsh> and this works
<zsh> I know it looks ugly
<ogra> well ...
<ogra> it should work without the xterm ...
<zsh> it is the nxclient from nomachine version 3.0, and the logs only say, that there is a problem with the display
<zsh> I tried it also with screen, instead of xterm
<zsh> but no success
<ogra> well :6 should work ...
<zsh> ...
<zsh> I get to login-window from nxclient, with no problems
<zsh> after the login-windows closes, the nxclient-process quits, but it starts new processes, but the new processes do not know ":6", I think
<stgraber> zsh: can you force it not to start a new process on exit ?
<stgraber> zsh: if yes, you can then do a "while" loop launching it again with the correct DISPLAY set
<zsh> stgraber, hmm, I don't know how
<stgraber> ok, well if it quits the loop idea should work anyway
<ogra> right
<zsh> ok, I don't understand, a loop arround nxclient?
<stgraber> while true
<stgraber> do
<ogra> in the screen script, yes
<stgraber> DISPLAY=:6 nxclient ....
<stgraber> done
<stgraber> so nxclient is relaunched when it exits
<ogra> jinty, hey
<jinty> hoi ogra
<stgraber> ogra: oh, and something I came across and posted here (I don't know if you have read), can you add a : cp /etc/apt/apt.conf $ROOT/etc/apt/
<ogra> jinty, is there any way to use your new packages with the existing zope in ubuntu ?
<stgraber> ogra: before apt-get update
<stgraber> ogra: in the ltsp script ?
<stgraber> ogra: I had some problem with proxy here
<zsh> but do I want this? If I start nxclient again I will get the login screen again
<jinty> ogra: you mean zope 3.3, I don't think so
<ogra> stgraber, yes, i noticed your request ... did you open a bug for it as well ?
<stgraber> ogra: fakeroot works fine, but not the apt-get update inside of the chroot (the proxy settings being stored in apt.conf and not taken from HTTP_PROXY)
<ogra> jinty, hmmm, youre zope packages are alpha ...
<stgraber> ogra: hmm, no. Will do and attach the line to add
<ogra> stgraber, thanks :)
<jinty> ogra: yep, we're kinda waiting for zope, their rlease date was a few months ago
<ogra> jinty, i cant break our zope atm ... if we get a new one i csan consider schooltool, but i wont move the alpha version in ...
<ogra> meh
<zsh> ogra, nxclient has also an "--display" option if I start it with "--display :6.0" still no success
<stgraber> ogra: bug 132397
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132397 in ltsp "[Gutsy]  Proxy not working with ltsp-build-client" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132397
<zsh> is there a way to shift a xwindows in the background without WM?
<ogra> stgraber, thanks
<zsh> ping ogra
<ogra> zsh, pong
<zsh> ogra, can I start more then one app with xinit?
<ogra> throught ~/.xsession, yes
<ogra> or a screen script
<zsh> in my screen script, I have:
<zsh> /usr/bin/xinit      /usr/NX/bin/nxclient-wrapper           \
<zsh> and the next is "-- \" and so on
<ogra> why to you call xinit at all ?
<zsh> hmm, it is the only way I know :)
<ogra> well, in any case it should work
<ogra> have you ghad a look at the rdesktop script ?
<zsh> my wrapper script contains (don't laugh): xterm -bg gray -hold -geometry 0x0-0-300 -e /bin/bash -l -c "`/usr/NX/bin/nxclient`"
<zsh> but I don't want this extra script
<ogra> while :; do /usr/bin/xinit /usr/NX/bin/nxclient; done
<ogra> try that one
<ogra> probably add an EXPORT DISPLAY=:6 in front of it
<ogra> err
<zsh> hmm, th rdesktop script has more then one argument, so it should also work for me, I try it
<ogra> non capitalized export
<zsh> "export DISPLAY=:6 while :; do /usr/bin/xinit /usr/NX/bin/nxclient; done" should do the whole magic?
<ogra> something like that, yes
<zsh> I try it
<ogra> you need a semicolon before the while if you want it as one liner
<zsh> TTY is not needed?
<zsh> and DISP?
<ogra> it should work without it ... for proper integration tty should be set to 7
<ogra> but thats nothing you need for it to initially work
<zsh> rebuidling ...
<zsh> it is very strange
<zsh> I haven't tried "export DISPLAY=:6" but I am not very optimistic
<zsh> with the xterm solution I have a 10x16 pixel failure :)
<ogra> anyway ...
* ogra takes a long break now
<zsh> :( syntax error
<zsh> ... while ; do ...?
<ogra> while :; do
<ogra> "while :" means forever in this case
<ogra> see above you need one in front of the while if you run export before and want to keep it as one liner
<ogra> s/one/one semicolon/
<ogra> export DISPLAY=:6; while :; do /usr/bin/xinit /usr/NX/bin/nxclient; done
<zsh> rebuilding...
<ogra> man xinit might also help ...
<ogra> <-- really off now for 1h ors so
<zsh> ok
<zsh> want to you wait for 1 minute?
<zsh> ogra, it doesn't work, same problem
<JonNoob> HELP... I have problem with some users unable to login. I have integrated my edubuntu Feisty server with my Win2003 AD. Itappears in auth.log, that they are granted access and that i sessionopens for them, but the client just blinks black screen shortly and then returns to the login screen...
<sbalneav> ogra: Monring
<sbalneav> err Morning
<stgraber> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey stgraber
<ogra> hey sbalneav
<ogra> new ldm2 mergeable ?
<bddebian> Heya
<ogra> bug 129421
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129421 in sabayon "sabayon is not purged correctly when uninstalling" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129421
<ogra> bug 91589
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 91589 in sabayon "[apport]  sabayon-apply crashed with TypeError in dprint()" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91589
<sbalneav> ogra: You about?
<LaserJock> RichEd: ping
<lns> Anyone know what the gconf key is to disable fade-to-black upon logout?
<lns> i know this is the default w/thin clients
<lns> how can I get a commodore 64 to be a thin client?
<lns> ;) j/k
#edubuntu 2007-08-15
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<joris_> ogra: are you online?
<ogra> busy but here, yes
<joris_> great :)
<joris_> I'm setting up an LTSP server based on edubuntu feisty for a school
<joris_> I'm told you're the guru on the subject
<joris_> if/when I get really stuck, could I bug you on the subject?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> i'f i'm not around there are also plenty of people in #ltsp that can help :)
<TheLambs> Hello all
* TheLambs Edubuntu newbie and long time away from IRC
<highvoltage> hi TheLambs!
<TheLambs> I have a server video resolution issue - I cant change it and it is awful
<highvoltage> what display card does is have?
<highvoltage> have you tried using a vesa driver?
<TheLambs> During the install it didnt ask what I wanted... one moment on card spec...
<TheLambs> Radeon Mobility M7 LW  (7500)
<TheLambs> How to change driver?
<highvoltage> dpkg-reconfigure --default-priority xserver-xorg
<highvoltage> it will show you a list where you can choose another driver
<highvoltage> if you manually want to change it
<highvoltage> you can also edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<TheLambs> Thanks - I will try that. I am SO used to SuSE's YAST - Ubuntu is kind of an alien environment.
<TheLambs> highvoltage - all done -thanks!!!
<sbalneav> ogra: hey, I understand things don't build anymore?
<ogra> sbalneav, yeah
<ogra> you added some m4 stuff ...
<sbalneav> That's probably the gettext stuff
<sbalneav> Well, I ran gettextize on the source dir
<sbalneav> That's what the tutorials recommended, but I noticed that nothing else has a po, but there's one big po for the whole tree.
<sbalneav> So maybe I don't need that stuff
<sbalneav> If so, back out the m4 changes, and ditch ldm's po dir.
<sbalneav> This is my first gettext, so I've probably done it wrong.
<sbalneav> ogra: That something you could do for me?
<ogra> sbalneav, sorry i'm in the middle of an important meeting, how long are you around ?
<sbalneav> about 5 more minutes :(
<sbalneav> Wost case, I'll be back friday
<ogra> do i need anything in my build environment i'm probably missing ?
<sbalneav> Shouldn't
<ogra> aclocal: couldn't open directory `m4': No such file or directory
<ogra> thats the error i get
<sbalneav> hmm
<sbalneav> hold on
<ogra> if i create m4 manually i get "aclocal: macro `AM_PROG_MKDIR_P' required but not defined"
<sbalneav> crap, maybe I didn't add the m4 dir.
<sbalneav> k gimme 2 secs
<sbalneav_> ok
<sbalneav_> just added m4, pushing now
<sbalneav_> ogra: Pushed up to revision 423.
<ogra> ah, cool
<sbalneav> That do it?
<ogra> for now, yes
<ogra> i'd rather not have the generated autofoo stuff in there, but we can strip later
<sbalneav> right, I had no idea if I did it right.
<sbalneav> We can patch things up from here
<ogra> i'll upload it anyway before UVF ... if it builds or not :P
<sbalneav> That's today, right?
* sbalneav slides ogra a heffeweissen
<sbalneav> we made it \o/
<ogra> sbalneav, nope., tomorrow
<ogra> distro meeting is 20:00 UTC ... thats freeze date
<bddebian> Heya
<sbalneav> OK, off to the cottage
<sbalneav> seeya
<RichEd> hey highvolt1ge :)
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<RichEd> LaserJock: pongy pongy
<pips1> LaserJock: hi
<RichEd> hi pips1 ...
<RichEd> i spoke to the admins re the drupal update, and they kind of deferred me to highvoltage
<RichEd> :( me was not impressed
<pips1> hmm
<RichEd> if highvoltage can't assist or is too busy, i'll bug them again ...
<highvoltage> hey pips1 and RichEd
<RichEd> hiey highvoltage
<pips1> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> pips1: how does your schedule look like the upcoming weekend?
<RichEd> seeing as it is a "security patch" request on a canonical server, i would assume that they should step up to the bar
<highvoltage> pips1: and will you want to do something directly after the upgrade?
<highvoltage> I could do the upgrade Friday afternoon/evening, it won't be a problem
<RichEd> pips1: and another thing ... that RH post article was very very interesting
<highvoltage> RichEd: I agree with you. I'm willing to give them a *little* leeway though, since they are quire loaded at the moment as a result of the recent outage.
<highvoltage> RichEd: ironically, if it wasn't for us, that server would still be on Breezy too
<RichEd> it fits with exactly what I am trying to get Dell and HP to "buy into"
<highvoltage> RichEd: and it runs things like fridge, ms's blog, etc
<highvoltage> RichEd: and it would've been compromised too
<RichEd> i.e. a recommended and tested and certified LTSP solution
<highvoltage> that would be quite cool.
<pips1> highvoltage: thanks for offering to help out... but really, I should also be able to do the work.. it's just silly to leave the workload to you, since you already handed the baton over to me a long time ago... grumble
<RichEd> and the article also gives a good indication of the management tools that the clients would want to see in Edubuntu LTSP Server
<RichEd> --
<highvoltage> pips1: indeed. I think I'll upgrade this time, and then for drupal 5.3, we make sure that you'll have everything you need to do it
<RichEd> highvoltage: thanks for the offer to help ...
<RichEd> highvoltage: there was a post a few mins ago from Joey on an upgrade issue re fridge ...
* RichEd goes to dig it out
<highvoltage> pips1: Znarl is quite helpful, he caves quickly to pressure ;)
<highvoltage> pips1: I'll do some pesting, it should work
<RichEd> highvoltage: <quote>
<RichEd> Some Fridge news for the Editing team:
<RichEd> 1) We're looking at upgrading the existing Drupal installation from
<RichEd> 4.3 to 6.0 once 6.0 is out.
<RichEd> <endquote>
<highvoltage> RichEd: shew
<RichEd> did your comment above mean that edubuntu.org runs on the same drupal install or same box as the fridge, or were you talking about the ubuntu version ?
<pips1> highvoltage: i mean, it really just takes a simple change on the filesystem (i.e. assign the drupal folder to the 'edubuntu' group, which i'm part of) ...
<highvoltage> RichEd: it runs on the same box
<RichEd> and the same instance ? or a seperate install
<RichEd> (of drupal)
<highvoltage> sepereate drupal install
<RichEd> okay
<pips1> I think they are separate drupal installations... they didn't use the 'multisite' installation feature of drupal, afaik
<highvoltage> well, I just popped in for a quick hello, goodnight RichEd and pips1. I'll be around, so ping me if there's anything else I can help get going.
<pips1> RichEd: your above comments relate to the mail discussion thread on the fedora-education-list i sent you?
<pips1> highvoltage: ok
<pips1> highvoltage: thanks
<highvoltage> pips1: thanks to you!
<pips1> has anyone seen LaserJock active in the channel lately?
<LaserJock> blah, I'm back
<pips1> LaserJock: hey, hi
<pips1> :-)
<RichEd> pips1: indeed
<pips1> LaserJock: did you get the email from Andreas Meiszner
<LaserJock> pips1: yes
<pips1> ... his announcement about "'Learning the Open Source Way' project", the joint FLOSSCom / Ubuntu Education event
<LaserJock> pips1: working on it with RichEd right now ;-)
<pips1> ah!
<RichEd> LaserJock: go ahead ... make his day
* pips1 taps his fingers in anticipation
<pips1> :-)
<LaserJock> gimme a sec to edit his story
<pips1> hehe
* pips1 hits the reload button repeatedly
<pips1> don't worry, I'm joking
<pips1> as a random side-note, the programmer at my office is already working on his second drupal client project and he can't stop to rave about drupal
<RichEd> pips1: it is interesting in that fedora education post that even with the RH certification and support from Dell that Dell have not "configured and blessed" a K12LTSP server
<RichEd> even though the clients are desperately asking
<LaserJock> did you guys see System76 was selling Edubuntu servers?
<pips1> RichEd: interesting, yes
<pips1> LaserJock: nope
<RichEd> ? wot ... gotta link LaserJock ?
<LaserJock> http://system76.com/index.php?cPath=29
<LaserJock> just go to configure any of them and they give you an option of Ubuntu or Edubuntu
<pips1> ha!
<pips1> ok... edubuntu workstation then
<pips1> oh, servers
<LaserJock> yeah, servers
<pips1> impressive
<pips1> heh "Edubuntu 7.04 Server Edition (Schools)"
<LaserJock> I was thinking it'd be cool to contact them and see if they need anything or if they've even sold any
<pips1> Hardware Warranty... hmm. what about software support...?
<pips1> LaserJock: indeed!
<pips1> where did you learn about System 76?
<pips1> reads the "For Schools" page http://system76.com/articles.php?tPath=2_10
<pips1> that's a neat little page
<RichEd> === Edubuntu Meeting in 10 mins in #ubuntu-meeting ===
<LaserJock> pips1: the company or the Edubuntu part?
<pips1> the company
<LaserJock> hmm, no idea
<LaserJock> they've been around for a while
<pips1> ok, so what about the edubuntu part?
<LaserJock> I was just scouting out they're new selection and decided to look at servers
<LaserJock> *their
<RichEd> check this page; http://system76.com/articles.php?tPath=2_9
<RichEd> talks about LTSP deployments (but for business)
<RichEd> ping ogra
<ogra> pong
* ogra looks
<ogra> well, you can buy it with edubuntu preinstalled apparently
<ogra> way cool !
<RichEd> ogra: indeed:)
<RichEd> perhaps we must work on them to put together a recommended Edubuntu LTSP Server
<RichEd> ogra: also take a read of this when you have some time:
<RichEd> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-education-list/2007-April/msg00022.html
<RichEd> i'll extract and summarise the whole thread, but there are some excellent points made
<ogra> i know thia thread :)
<ogra> *that
<RichEd> i'll send a mail to you and chris & markm ... shows what the clients want ... and are ready for
<ogra> even though when i read it i skipped most of the ono ltsp bits in it
<RichEd> === Edubuntu Meeting in 1 mins in #ubuntu-meeting === get your coffee now ! ===
<LaserJock> pips1: have a look at http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1084 real quick
<pips1> *click*
<pips1> erm, not authorised..
<LaserJock> pips1: ok, fine, it'll be up shortly
<LaserJock> I thought maybe you could see it
<pips1> nope
<pips1> LaserJock: thanks for posting Andreas' announcement to the fridge
<pips1> However, I noticed because of the delay in the announcement, the text has gone out of sync with where their talk schedule currently stands... it's a detail though
<LaserJock> pips1: hmm, didn't think to check, I can fix that
<pips1> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/flosscom/talks
<pips1> * Past meetings / talks
<pips1>    * What are the roles in FLOSS?
<pips1>    * Summer University Newbie Introduction - Part 1
<pips1>    * Summer University  Newbie Introduction: The support approach
<pips1> * Coming meetings / talks
<pips1>    * What is the FLOSS support system?
<pips1>    * How is FLOSS learning different from normal education?
<pips1>    * Is there any assessment and evaluation in FLOSS?
<LaserJock> fixed
<pips1> great!
<pips1> do you want to ping Andreas? or should I?
<LaserJock> I just sent him an email
<pips1> good man! :-)
<LaserJock> bye guys I gotta run
<pips1> night all
<opapo> If I have a 64 bit server can I have ppc clients with ltsp and edubuntu?
#edubuntu 2007-08-16
<godofredo> what version of edubuntu would be best for an old pc?
<ziroday> can someone please help me, whenever I start gdm i get the error - gnome settings daemon could not initialize, during this error the startup process is really slow and i cant access nautilus or gnome panels afterwards
<RichEd> hey hey cbx33
<cbx33> hi RichEd
<RichEd> cbx33: check this out ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer
<RichEd> from our volunteer grandmother who usually illustrates kids books in ink and paper
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> done in?
<cbx33> inkscape?
<RichEd> not sure ... LaserJock was helping her transition ...
<RichEd> she usually works with paper, and then scans in and tidies ... for print
<RichEd> so electronic artwork is a new step for her
<cbx33> ahh i see
<cbx33> it's looking good
<zsh> good morning
<glatzor> servus ogra, some time ago I read about an application that allows to monitor multiple vnc servers at the same time, that was developed under the edubuntu umbrella.
<glatzor> ogra: could you please give me the name of it?
<ogra> thin-client-manager
<jsgotangco> glatzor! ogra!
<glatzor> jsgotangco!
<glatzor> nice to hear from you!
<jsgotangco> heh ive been too busy
<glatzor> jsgotangco: me too.
<juliux> hey glatzor jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> too bad cant stay long
<jsgotangco> see ya guys later
<juliux> cu jsgotangco
<zsh> hi ogra
<zsh> ogra, I have now a working nxclient start script
<ogra> cool
<zsh> but not my work
<zsh> http://muzso.hu/node/4136
<zsh> ogra, please can you have a look on it, do I need the xorg-config-file generation with gutsy?
<zsh> I have testet it with one client without xorg-config-file generation and it works well
<ogra> the xinitrc is a bt scary
<ogra> (starting an xterm locally based on a env var circumvents security)
<ogra> without that line it looks good to me, no idea why he didnt send that in
<zsh> I don't no, it was hard to find
<zsh> http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=279804&group_id=110959 is also intressting
<zsh> but I have not tried it
<zsh> the first solution is nicer
<zsh> can we ship this script in gutsy?
<ogra> i think so, yes
<zsh> fix-focus is also needed
<zsh> I could test the script
<zsh> if you want make it more beautiful
<bddebian> Heya
<RichEd> cbx33: you around ?
<cbx33> just about
<cbx33> fighting with gstreamer
<cbx33> and it's python bindings
<RichEd> quick question then ... do you know where I can find all the default desktops shipped with the previous Edubuntu versions ?
<RichEd> we want to show jillc the "abstract" concept ... the less busy defaults
<RichEd> art.ubuntu.com is not responding or else I would have browsed there to look
<RichEd> (as a guess)
<RichEd> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> RichEd: hey dude how's it going
<RichEd> okay thanks ... and you ?
<jsgotangco> pretty intense work/travel sched for me :-)
<jsgotangco> i've taken a different path though, mostly doing enterprise level stuff
<jsgotangco> not much time to look at active development :-/
<joris> 
<joris> typo
<godofredo> is there an edubuntu 7.10 alternate install disc?
<godofredo> ?
<lns> Is there a way to get the (better) "Users and Groups" manager in Edubuntu installed for Ubuntu?
<lns> (without installing the entire edubuntu-desktop)
<ogra_> lns, they are the same in ubuntu and edubuntu
<lns> hey ogra
<lns> well in my edubuntu server, there's a search bar, you can sort very well, but on my ubuntu server there's no search, you can't sort at all...
<lns> maybe the default is different for "ubuntu server AMD64"? I'm confused now
<ogra> well, edubuntu-server is actually ubuntu alternate with some changes ... not to mix up with ubuntu-server
<lns> ok
<ogra> ubuntu-server doesnt install a desktop ... might be you got a different app there now
<ogra> (if you installed the desktop manually)
<lns> i guess so... i'm installing ubuntu-desktop now
<lns> so is ubuntu-desktop not a virtual package?
<lns> i thought it was
<lns> I remember now it got uninstalled when i uninstalled some samba related packages
<lns> weird...same app after ubuntu-desktop install
<lns> just a very basic user/group manager...that's not going to work for school next week :( they need to be able to at least sort/search
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> i dont have any search entry in mine on gutsy
<lns> really
<ogra> are you sure the two are the same version ?
<ogra> (the ubuntu and the edubuntu)
<lns> both are feisty, yeah...unless i'm mistaking the old dapper install
<lns> did that have another user/group mgr?
<lns> sorry for the scatterdness... i'm almost positive that my feisty install had the different mgr though
<lns> (edubuntu)
<ogra> might just be that the UI changed between two versions ...
<lns> on ubuntu, i can't even sort the names correctly. Click on "Name" bar above all the users and it does nothing
<ogra> same here on gutsy
<lns> :(
<lns> that's one of the biggest things for the teacher admins here
<lns> they can't work with that
<ogra> i really wonder what you use there on your edubuntu
<lns> hehe
<lns> me too!
<lns> it looked nice
<lns> i swear i wasn't dreaming ;)
<ogra> can you make a screenshot of the app you see on the edubuntu ?
<lns> sure i can, probably in a couple hours when i get back to my office...can only get in via vpn
<lns> i'm onsite at my ubuntu/ltsp server now
<ogra> ah
<SlimG3> Is Edubuntu available with Norwegian Bokmal and/or Norwegian Nynorsk translation?
#edubuntu 2007-08-17
<ogra> sure
<SlimG3> ogra: thanks
<juliux> ogra, ping
<ogra> juliux, ?
<juliux> ogra, i have to aks you something about mythv as an old mythv guy;)
<juliux> how much power needs a mythtv recorder? i want tor record from a dvb-t usb stick;)
<ogra> heh, old mythtv guy ?
<ogra> i've see it running twice in my life
<juliux> yes
<juliux> hmmm
<ogra> but 500Mhz and 128M should suffice i guess if you dont run the frontend there as well
<juliux> i only want the recording there
<ogra> right
<ogra> probably more ram is needed
<juliux> i have 386 but it is only 800mhz via epia system
<ogra> that should do it if it doesnt do much other stuff
<juliux> that is my router and fileserver system
<Janet32766> can anyonen point me to a way to avoid the problems in dansguardian?
<Janet32766> memory leaks
<bddebian> Heya
<effie_jayx> quick Q!. is ther any posibility of running (ed)ubuntu on a classmate PC
<effie_jayx> ?
<LaserJock> effie_jayx: yes, kinda
<LaserJock> effie_jayx: the Intel guys were at UDS Sevilla and ogra has done quite a bit of work on getting Edubuntu to run on them
<monteslu> anyone here seen an error like unable to copy user xauthorization file while trying to run something with gksudo?
<effie_jayx> LaserJock,  well it seems my governemt is buying some of them
<effie_jayx> LaserJock,  but they will use som closed source distro
<effie_jayx> which is a bummer
<effie_jayx> thanks for the info anyway
<LaserJock> effie_jayx: they use Windows and a tweaked derivative of openSUSE I believe
<effie_jayx> LaserJock,  they are planning to use Rxart
<effie_jayx> LaserJock,  we are seeing the chance to get ubuntu on them
<LaserJock> Rxart? never heard of that
<effie_jayx> me neither
<effie_jayx> LaserJock,  argentinian based close-sourced linux distro
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<effie_jayx> and they "give away" licenses
<effie_jayx> ;)
<LaserJock> well, there is lots of work going to getting Ubuntu/Edubuntu going on the ClassmatePCs
<effie_jayx> anything documented I can make reference to?
<effie_jayx> I might talk tothe party trying to bring these machines
<LaserJock> effie_jayx: there's a little info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Sevilla/ClassmatePC
<effie_jayx> LaserJock,  most helpfull
<LaserJock> effie_jayx: I'm not sure how current that is. You might email edubuntu-devel asking for more info
<LaserJock> I'd be interested as well as I'm going to be getting a ClassmatePC shortly
#edubuntu 2007-08-18
<monteslu> is anyone doing work on the thin client manager? I'd love to have this thing working with my multiple server setup
<stgraber> monteslu: I'm working on a reworked version of it, but it won't be included in Gutsy (and I don't have multi-server support as the python-tcm doesn't provide multi-server support and it's just a frontend)
<monteslu> stgraber, multi-server support isn't a deal breaker. I actually have a terminal from each server up next to each other.
<monteslu> I do need to fix the x11 things though, and there are some stability issues
<stgraber> indeed, a ssh -X should do it in your case
<monteslu> you mean instead of vnc ?
<monteslu> strange that it's not the default on edubuntu when X over ssh is the default for muekow
<sbalneav> Evening all
<nixternal> evening sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey nixternal
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<stgraber> ogra: Latest ldm seems to be working just fine, I finished the installation of my school test network this morning and except x11vnc which seems to be crashing everything works just fine
<stgraber> I'll upload a photograph I have taken and upload the version of my rewritten tcm it's using (a lot of functionalities are sill missing)
<stgraber> ogra: http://www.stgraber.org/download/edubuntu-csc.jpg
<stgraber> (taken with my cell, so pretty poor quality ...)
<JanetFLorida> can anyone suggest how I resolve the memory leak in the repository version of dansguardian? it is a known bug, a new source version repairs, i just don't know how to make it ...
<sbalneav> Morning all
<mumbles> hi all - am i right in thinking that edubuntu comes with filtering software ?
<sbalneav> mumbles: For web content filtering, you mean?
<sbalneav> Or firewalling?
<mumbles> web content filtering
<mumbles> ive been trying to setup dansgardian under kubuntu but with no sucess
<mumbles> going to install eduubntu just to see what the differnce is
<sbalneav> I don't beleive edubuntu comes with any content filtering.
<sbalneav> However, a lot of people use dansguardian.
<mumbles> have you got any good links ?
<sbalneav> No, I don't use content filtering myself, so I've never set it up.
<sbalneav> The mailing list has discussed it in the past, though, so you might find info by searching edubuntu-users.
<missmoon> oooo
<missmoon> oooooo
<missmoon>  iam here in this chat
<missmoon>  i want any one
<sbalneav> Hello?
<sbalneav> missmoon: What is it you need?
<sbalneav> missmoon: Hello?
#edubuntu 2007-08-19
<jamie> Please has anyone got skype working with pulse. I have tried padsp skype? No joy just sees the sound card in the sever.
<Randall> hi all, ran into something when doing a ltsp-build-client on Xubuntu and not sure if and where to report it as a bug, the ltsp-build-client errors on the following    	 	 	 	 	 	   /usr/sbin/ltsp-update-sshkeys: 69: Syntax error: "fi" unexpected (expecting "done")
<Randall> please let me know where to report this properly
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<Dante123> I have a good solid idea for an educational app (preferebably web-based) and a working model that runs on an old Mac under hypercard....any programmers interested?
#edubuntu 2008-08-11
<monteslu_> ogra not hang out in here anymore?
<monteslu> stgraber, have you done an ltsp installation with mutliple ltsp servers?
<monteslu> I've got 70 thin clients and I'm setting up 2 new servers today
<monteslu> two dual-quad cores with 16GB ram a piece
<monteslu> total of 8 cores and 32 GB between the two boxes, more hardware than I've ever been able to throw at ltsp :)
<monteslu> actually 16 cores between the boxes
<monteslu> 8 cores a piece
<monteslu> In the past i've used matt olquist's smbldap installer script to setup and connect my two old servers to the ldap server
<monteslu> this year i have to do it manually because the smbldap installer is no longer being updated
<stgraber> monteslu: I haven't done that kind of installation myself but I'm working for a company how does :)
<stgraber> *who
<stgraber> monteslu: anything that you think might be a problem with multiple ltsp servers ?
<monteslu> stgraber, sure plenty of problems :)
<monteslu> well, specifically there isn't any real support for it
<monteslu> all I'm doing is pointing certain workstations at the secondary server via the lts.conf
<monteslu> so if server 1 goes down, it's all down
<monteslu> and if server 2 goes down, it's half down
<stgraber> doesn't ldm provide a way of selecting a server from a list ? I thought it did
<monteslu> My main concern for now though is connecting 8.04 to my old ldap server without the smbldap clilent configuration script
<monteslu> stgraber, you mean for the user to do that?
<monteslu> i'd rather it just did a round robin, and allowed for overridign
<stgraber> that or using ldminfod to select one, I recall something like that but never used it
<monteslu> overriding
<stgraber> monteslu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleLDMLoadBalancing
<monteslu> I would still need to failover my dhcp server
<monteslu> i just did the normal edubuntu ltsp setup and disalbed dhcp on the secondary
<monteslu> oooh, very cool. Thanks for the link
<monteslu> this is also the first time I'm using servers with more than 4GB of memory
<monteslu> I'm not going to use the x86_64 kernel though because of the assholes at Adobe
<monteslu> but I think i need to select server kernel or some such thing to address all my 16GB on each server
<stgraber> yeah, you'll need the server kernel for > 4GB
<monteslu> I think there was something else I had to do to the secondary server....
<monteslu> something about copyin ssh keys from the primary server
<monteslu> sound familiar?
<stgraber> yeah, you'll need the public key of both servers in the chroot
<stgraber> or make both servers to have the same public key
<monteslu> cool
<monteslu> ok, new problem :)
<monteslu> following the instructions word for word, and i'm getting (initramfs) instead of a login screen...
<monteslu> so i removed "quiet" from tftboot
<monteslu> gettign an error: connection refused
<monteslu> then mount: Mounting /rofs on /root/rofs failed: Invalid argument
<monteslu> and it doesn't get any better from there
<monteslu> ooh, lots of hits, must be a common bug
<stgraber> that means that your nbd server didn't answer
<stgraber> does your server answer on tcp/2000 (default nbd port) ?
<monteslu> nope
<monteslu> tried telnetting and got nothing
<monteslu> someone suggested ltsp-build-client on the forum
<monteslu> giving it a shot
<monteslu> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=686966
<stgraber> hmm, indeed it won't work if you don't have a chroot
<stgraber> so ltsp-build-client is the first step
<stgraber> it'll generate the chroot and add it to tftp and nbd
<monteslu> shouldn't that have been done by the installer?
<stgraber> depends how you installed it ?
<stgraber> was that with the alternate CD-Rom and the LTSP option ?
<monteslu> yup
<monteslu> it put some stuff down
<monteslu> like the /opt/ltsp was there
<monteslu> but it must not have been complete, becuase this build client script is taking as long as that install did
<stgraber> indeed, that's because it does an install :)
<stgraber> (well, except the desktop part of it)
<monteslu> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall  "If the installer is done and has rebooted into your new system you will be able to boot your first Thin Client right away."
<monteslu> that might need some revising :)
<monteslu> cool, I'm in on the first server. Now to change to the big kernel, then connect to my ldap server, then setup the second box
<monteslu> apparently installing linux-server doesn't automatically tell grub to use it
<monteslu> nevermind. it worked. Restarting from a thin client doesnt
<monteslu> but that's fine
<monteslu> i can always do it on a comand line
<Neil3> hey folks, just wondering how suitable edubuntu is for a home, rather than classroom, environment, say for a pc for my 4 and 5 year old kids?
<highvoltage> *LaserHug*
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage
<elk80> hi everyone
<highvoltage> hi LaserJock and elk80
<elk80> How's everyone doing today?
<LaserJock> still waking up here
 * LaserJock yawns
<elk80> have some coffee :)
<LaserJock> unfortunately I haven't figured out how to get a coffee habit
<LaserJock> the stuff is so nasty I just have a hard time choking it down
<LaserJock> 10 years of uni and I still can't do it ;-)
<elk80> You haven't tried a Latte or starbucks drink then :) they're mostly cream/sugar :)
<monteslu> anyone have sudo throwing Seg faults on them?
<monteslu> I'm using 8.04.1
<monteslu> seems to not be able to write to the /root
#edubuntu 2008-08-12
<LaserJock> anybody about who actually uses denemo?
<orgthingy> wow
<orgthingy> sounds interesting
<orgthingy> so, whats special about it?
<orgthingy> is it ubuntu with some educational apps?
<orgthingy> or, changed ubuntu a bit?
#edubuntu 2008-08-13
<acp_> Hi where can I find Thin Client Manager (TCM) in 8.04 or do I still need to install it?
<LaserJock> ogra! :-)
<ogra> :)
<LaserJock> ogra: you get my email about denemo?
<ogra> sorry, just got back from the hospital and trying to cope with over 4000 mails that stacked up, i saw the sbject in the list though
<LaserJock> ogra: yikes :(
#edubuntu 2008-08-14
<monteslu> anyone have an issue exiting full screen apps  like tuxtype on 8.04 ?
<monteslu> through ltsp, i mean
<LaserJock> ogra: I haven't gotten much reaction about denemo
<ogra> sorry, havent answered yet i promise i'll do that tomorrow ... (on my way to bed, i need to step down a bit for my health)
<LaserJock> ogra: I wasn't poking you, just saying I haven't seen any screams for it to stay
<ogra> well, i discussed it with pitti months ago and ae agreed that it wouldnt be to bad to pull in the rest of the deps to main
<LaserJock> including jack?
<ogra> and i would like to keep it in edubuntu since its great for note setting ... there isnt anything that you can use in that context
<ogra> no, but lilypond
<LaserJock> right, the problem is that Debian has added new deps
<LaserJock> that are perhaps more troublesome
<ogra> bah
<ogra> well, i'll look tomorrow, i really need to go to bed
<LaserJock> yeah, np
<ogra> (way over my time already, my doc would kill me if he knew)
#edubuntu 2008-08-15
 * LaserJock sends a shutdown -h now to ogra's computer
<ogra> heh
<ball> When edubuntu is used in the ltsp style, does the window manager run on the Xterminals, or on the central host?
<yallax_on> i have xubuntu ltsp installed, and added the users to the "fuse" group, when they insert a usb-disk it gets mounted in /media/"username"/usbdisk-sdb1  it seems.. but there is no icon on the desktop or anything.. if i logon locally on the server it works tho.. but how to i fix it so users gets the icon on their desktop??
<ogra> yallax_on, xubuntu (or better thunar) doesnt monitor /media at all (unlike gnome) you might be able to hack up a script or so yourself or patch ltspfsmounter on the server
<ogra> or alternatively use nautilus ...
<yallax_on> if im locally logged on and insert a disk it mounts in /media/disk  and the icon appears and the disk is opened automaticly tho
<yallax_on> no icon on desktop tho.. icon shows in the filedrawer on the menu "places"
<yallax_on> wish the icon for ltsp users also showed up there tho
<yallax_on> anyway, is nautilus a lot resource hungry than thunar?
<ogra> not really
<ogra> local devices for local logins are handled by hal
<ogra> local devices for ltsp are handled by the app that monitors /media (gnome-volume-manager/nautilus)
<yallax_on> yeah if a user issues the command "nautilus" after logging in, usb disks shows on the desktop etc
<yallax_on> now i just need to find out how i can get nautilus to start whenever a user logs in
<ogra> there must be code somewhere in xubuntu that starts thunar, (xfce-session or so) just replace thunar in there with nautilus
<yallax_on> I have 3 Ubuntu servers with identical hardware, is it possible to clone 1 of them ..so i can install the same clone on the 2 others?
<stgraber> yes you can but you may need to update some files afterwards
<stgraber> as the network configuration stores the NIC mac address (so it knows what's eth0), you may also have some problems with the partitions UUID
<LaserJock> morning all
<fsgaston> Can anybody tell me how to point an ltsp client to point to one particular printer when you are using multiple servers
<yallax_up> my ltsp users have their home folder in /home/domain/username but all users seems to have read permissions on all their files for everyone.. id like to have permission 0700.. how can i do that automaticly, when a user logs in or his home folder is created?
<fsgaston> If you have 12 classrooms and 7 servers for LTSP, how does anyone advise setting up printers.
<fsgaston> join #ubuntu
<triaxe> we are on a university, and use xubuntu ltsp servers.. ubuntu/xubuntu seems to set the permission rw-r-r on all new users home folders.. is there a login script or somthing that can set /home/username to rw----(0700) ?
#edubuntu 2008-08-16
<ball> Is it difficult to configure edubuntu for use on a LAN with an existing DHCP server?
<LaserJock> hmm, I think it's not ideal
<LaserJock> I think it might be able to be worked around
<ball> Okay.  I'm downloading edubuntu-8.04.1-addon-i386 now
<ball> ...is that supposed to work alongside an ordinary Ubuntu 8.04 CD?
<LaserJock> yes it is
<LaserJock> if you install Ubuntu either from the Desktop CD or an LTSP server via the Alternate CD
<LaserJock> you can then pop in the Edubuntu addon CD and it'll let you install educational stuff
<ball> Does the Edubuntu addon CD also include the LTSP server?
<ball> ...or is that part of base ubuntu these days?
<LaserJock> it's on the the Ubuntu Alternate CD
<LaserJock> when you boot it up it gives you a list of options
<LaserJock> one of them should be LTSP
<ball> Thanks, I'll snag a copy of that too then.
<ball> (the alternate CD)
<LaserJock> I think perhaps (not sure) that the addon CD may have LTSP packages, but installing from the Alternate CD does a lot of setup so it's probably better to use that
<ball> LaserJock: Anything that helps me set this up is a good thing, so thanks for the pointer.
<calimer> I have some video of the project I'd like to get into edubuntu
<calimer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qymKiot7Cc
#edubuntu 2008-08-17
<calimer> updated the video for better syncing
<calimer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g44Ww2bg2_E
<highvoltage> Goodnight.
#edubuntu 2009-08-10
<mhall119|work> morning
<mhall119|work> I have questions about tasksel, can anyone here help?
<alkisg> !ask | mhall119|work
<ubottu> mhall119|work: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<mhall119|work> sorry, didn't want to write a long post about what I need if nobody knew anything about it
<mhall119|work> I'm working on making a Qimo alternate cd
<mhall119|work> I see that the Xubuntu alt cd preseed is tasksel-ing xubuntu-desktop
<mhall119|work> I want to make a qimo-desktop task so I can do the same
<mhall119|work> what is involved in doig that
<mhall119|work> ?
<mhall119|work> I saw that all the xubuntu-desktop packages have "Task: xubuntu-desktop" in their control file, is that all that's necessary?
<alkisg> Until someone that knows about tasks answers, you could have a look at /usr/share/tasksel/ubuntu-tasks.desc. I think that making such a task desciption file would be easier than adding the tasks to the packages...
<mhall119|work> yeah, I saw that
<mhall119|work> not sure if the alt cd installer uses that list or not
<mhall119|work> I didn't see it in the alt-cd filesystem anyway
<mhall119|work> maybe it's in initrd somewhere though
#edubuntu 2009-08-11
<Ahmuck_> i'm baaaack:)
<Plisk> Ahmuck_: Hi!
<Ahmuck_> hiya  Plisk ... long time no chat
<Plisk> Ahmuck_: yea, how is it going ?
<mhall119|work> hi Ahmuck_
#edubuntu 2009-08-13
<Lns> http://www.classroomtco.org/gartner_intro.html
<dark4og> Anyone having trouble with Firefox and Java.. Firefox just dies when I type tooooo fast.
<dark4og> This happens in an email web client, World Client, Lookout theme, heavy in the Java
#edubuntu 2009-08-14
<mss_> hi
<ace_suares1> goddauy!
<mss_> I have been chasing down this problem :
<mss_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2008-December/004911.html
<mss_> hardy DHCP problem with  not more than 4-5 clinets booting up..
<mss_> which I have seen in our lab ...
<mss_> other folks have seen this problem too ...
<mss_> alkisg here suggested a few days ago to replace cdhcp3 server with dnsmasq which I did ...
<mss_> things are a bit better now ..though the problem still happens ...
<mss_> I have managed to tack down exactly when the server stops /slows response to DHCP client requests ..
<ace_suares1> sorry, can't help you on that one!
<mss_> It happpens as sson as the first client reaches the login screen ..
<mss_> and this starts in the kernel logs :
<mss_> Aug 14 18:38:08 192.168.0.62 kernel: Inspecting /boot/System.map-2.6.24-19-generic
<mss_> Aug 14 18:38:58 192.168.0.62 kernel: Loaded 27883 symbols from /boot/System.map-2.6.24-19-generic.
<mss_> Aug 14 18:39:23 192.168.0.62 kernel: Symbols match kernel version 2.6.24.
<mss_> Aug 14 18:39:48 192.168.0.209 kernel: Inspecting /boot/System.map-2.6.24-19-generic
<mss_> Aug 14 18:40:13 192.168.0.62 kernel: Loaded 11587 symbols from 57 modules.
<mss_> Aug 14 18:40:38 192.168.0.62 kernel: [    0.000000] Initializing cgroup subsys cpuset
<mss_> Then DHCP gets hosed ...and the remaining clients do no boot any more ..
<nubae> mss, what does the dhcp log say?
<nubae> in /var/log/messages I believe
<mss_> nubae: I pated the dhcp logs at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/477
<nubae> what options are u passing in pxe.0.cfg/default?
<mss_> standard dnsmasq config according to /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/dhcpd-dnsmasq
<mss_> I have not set any other special options...
<nubae> just that dhcp is complaining about some option
<mss_> what is this stuff going on in the kernel logs for each client and why is it so slow  ?
<nubae> anyway, #ltsp should be able to help u better
<mss_> thanks
<nubae> u dont have remote logging turned on by any chance
<nubae> ?
<mss_> how would I do that ?
<nubae> u'd set it in /etc/syslog.conf
<mss_> I did not change anything from standard edubuntu install ... should it be turned off ?
<nubae> by default yes
<nubae> u'd really notice dhcp slowing down to almost a halt
<mss_> nubae: if remote logging is turned off will I have this problem :
<mss_> V
<mss_> http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/TroubleShooting#syslogd_cannot_write_to_remote_f
<mss_> anyway ... will try it and see how it goes ..
<mss_> thanks
<mosy> test
#edubuntu 2009-08-15
<Traveler> hello all.  i'm looking for a quick suggestion for running edubuntu in a school env.  i have 30 student computers and 10 teacher computers each running edubuntu as standalone.  I'd like to introduce a central server for account mgt, home directory storage, client login scripts.  looking for server build (services) suggstions.  The network also contains a few Windows clients that I'd like to provide a client home directory for as well
<Traveler> currently thinking of a minimal debian build on the server with samba and webmin
<Traveler> i don't think i need a full LDAP implementation
<Traveler> or do I since there are Windows clients?
#edubuntu 2009-08-16
<davew_> I wish to alter clients desktops and not servers, so that students only see apps i want them to see - anyone help ?
<Ahmuck-Sr> davew_: patience
<Ahmuck-Sr> davew nfs would restrict them to their own directories.  bieng able to customize thier own menu isn't a bad thing
<davew_> Hi - Yes and I have got quite a lot of it when I'm in control but unfortunately in this situation it becomes difficult - you see the classes have to carry on
<Ahmuck-Sr> morever, it sounds like you have windows clients, so you would need a windows lockdown editor
<Ahmuck-Sr> on the linux side, someone messes up their menu, the menu entry get's deleted and the menu gets reset
<davew_> No Windows clients. I just want 30 thin clients who can use open office apps and have access to their own folders
<Ahmuck-Sr> oh, that's easy ... you have all the control you want
<Ahmuck-Sr> davew>	O.K. Let me tell you the story anyway. Have got a room with 30 pc's running XP and accessing a fedora core server via samba. - so you don't plan to use the windows xp side?
<davew_> Oh tell me wise one !
<Ahmuck-Sr> what are you concered they might mess up?
<Ahmuck-Sr> u r running fedora core right?
<davew_> The kids will mess anything up. I want to just have a nmenu with the apps I am allowing them to use, together with their home folder icon on the desktop and the inability to change anything on the desktop or put in a memory stick and be able to access it
<Ahmuck-Sr> davew>	I abandoned Open SUSE and went to ubuntu, with all of its promise of easy install if 2 NIC's on board. - now i'm confused.  fedora core & ubuntu on the same server with ltsp?
<Ahmuck-Sr> u have a fedora core server with samba and a ubuntu ltsp server?
<Ahmuck-Sr> what r u concerned with them messing up?
<Ahmuck-Sr> help me out here
<davew_> Sorry to confuse. We have been using a Fedora server and allowing the XP machines normal access via Samba. I have built a new machine based upon Ubuntu 9.04
<davew_> Thgis machine will be used as the LTSP server. I have managed to get this arrangement running........so the next thing is the control
<davew_> Ahmuck-Sr - Is it clear now ?
<davew_> Still there - Ahmuck - sr
<davew_> Hello - anybody alive ?
<davew_> Any of you use Unix ?
<davew_> Now Unix was good !
<Ahmuck-Sr> still here
<davew_> Final call anyone ?
<Ahmuck-Sr> unix was 36,000 dollars
<Ahmuck-Sr> for 36,000 dollars i'll fix anything you have a problem with
<davew_> The amount of sweat I have dripped over this, it was worth it lol
<Ahmuck-Sr> :)
<Ahmuck-Sr> ok, let me do some searching.  i'm working on a magazine deadline, but i'll take time to look this up
<davew_> That is very kind of you - you O.K. with what I am propsing ?
<davew_> proposing
<davew_> I shall return tomorrow and leave you in peace - Cheers !
<mhall119> evening
<mhall119> http://www.quinncoincorporated.org/2009/08/youth-build-day-pictures/
<termolp> hi
<termolp> is there somebody here?
<cprofitt> Can anyone tell me what the "recipes" are mentioned on this page - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuRecipes
<andv> cprofitt, looks like network-install is the only recipe available atm
<cprofitt> correct... I am curious what the recipes are... the network-install does not really serve as a good guide
<cprofitt> Would telling people how to setup iTalc be good?
<cprofitt> I am looking more for what 'good topics' would be.
<cprofitt> andv, any idea what other topics would count as a recipe? or perhaps that page should be deleted?
<cprofitt> andv I decided to redirect that page to the cookbooks
<andv> cprofitt, don't know who takes care of that page
<cprofitt> I am part of the team that takes care of it andv via Rocket2DMn and the documentation team
<andv> cprofitt, oh cool
<andv> cprofitt, actually I wonder why that page is no more active
<andv> cprofitt, maybe there was a project about it and now no one cares
<andv> dunno
<cprofitt> andv, could be... the cookbook seems more active... so a redirect to that should work
<andv> yep
<cprofitt> I transferred over the one 'recipe'
<andv> cprofitt, if the only remaining recipe was the networkinstall one
<cprofitt> the main edubuntu site linked to the recipes... not the cook book...
<andv> just move it to the cookbook and removed that page then
<cprofitt> so we will have to get that fixed
<cprofitt> I did that already andv
<andv> perfect
<cprofitt> after consulting with a member of the documentation team with more 'seat time'
<andv> perfect then, you fixed the issue
<andv> as I said that page might be part of an existing project which got abanduned
<andv> * abandoned
<cprofitt> might well be...
<cprofitt> edubuntu needs to get a bit more 'push' behind it...
<cprofitt> IT in schools have warmed to Ubuntu at home, but they need guidance to install it at work...
<cprofitt> and the teachers / students need guides to help them transition
<andv> cprofitt, fully agreed
<andv> cprofitt, what's the situation for Edubuntu docs atm=
<andv> ?
<cprofitt> andv not really sure...
<cprofitt> not even sure who is leading the project or what the status is
<cprofitt> I am involved with this project which may help fill the void -
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<cprofitt> but it is not 'just' about edubuntu
<andv> this project looks great
<andv> did you have any good result since it has been created'
<andv> ?
<andv> cprofitt, anyway highvoltage should be able to tell you what the status of edubuntu-doc
<cprofitt> nice... I will ask him at some point...
<cprofitt> I am a systems administrator in a school district...
<cprofitt> so I am greatly interested in the progress of the project
<andv> I'm sure you'll get all informations you may need by him
<cprofitt> andv, the project is still in its infancy...
<andv> cprofitt, your project is about having 'lessons' on IRC about several topics
<andv> am I right?
<cprofitt> so we have not produced a single class yet -- but we are consistently moving toward that goal...
<cprofitt> we are about - using Moodle / IRC / Wiki / Forums to produce on-line classes
<cprofitt> they may involved one or all of those
<cprofitt> I would like to have both self-paced and instructor guided courses
<andv> what's moodle?
<andv> how many ppl follow this classrooms atm=
<cprofitt> Moodle is a web based server that allows for on-line courses
<cprofitt> http://moodle.org/
<cprofitt> http://learn.ufbt.net/ -- is our site at the moment
<cprofitt> if we get things to take off we will likely end up with the site being hosted by Canonical
<andv> that's great
<andv> I've heard a contributor before talking about following MOTU videos
<andv> are they provided by your course?
<cprofitt> MOTU does there own thing...
<cprofitt> but our courses may be intertwined with theirs in the future
<andv> good luck with this project then
<andv> It will do good for sure
<andv> let me know if you have any news from highvoltage
<andv> cprofitt, I'm leaving, good night
<cprofitt> good night andv
<andv> thanks, cya
#edubuntu 2010-08-16
<AndyGraybeal> how do i set it so the screen doesn't lock after 5 minutes of idle time without having all my users login and change it manually.  is there a way i can do it from the command line without having them be around?
<alkisg> I answered in #ltsp
<AndyGraybeal> thank you
<dgroos1> Hi
<dgroos1> I'm trying to get the FreeNX server on my server.
<dgroos1> I followed the straightforward directions on: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeNX
<dgroos1> but when I got to starting it: "sudo /etc/init.d/freenx-server start" as per the directions I got this:
<dgroos1> Rather than invoking init scripts through /etc/init.d, use the service(8)
<dgroos1> utility, e.g. service freenx-server start
<alkisg> That's just a warning, it shouldn't affect anythin
<alkisg> g
<alkisg> But neatx is easier to install, if you don't have some specific reason to prefer freenx...
<alkisg> Anyway, since you already came that far, what does this tell you? sudo invoke-rc.d freenx-server status
<dgroos1> Hard to know when things are a warning and when a problem...  I'll try...
<dgroos1> ... failed: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/479016/
<alkisg> Freenx was converted to upstart? nice...
<alkisg> Try: sudo status freenx-server
<dgroos1> status: Unknown job: freenx-server
<dgroos1> I also tried rebooting...
<alkisg> dpkg -L freenx-server | grep init
<alkisg> What does this tell you?
<dgroos1> dpkg -L freenx-server | grep init
<dgroos1> oops--wrong place :D
<alkisg> :)
<dgroos1> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/479017/
<dgroos1> and the "init" part is in red on each line...
<alkisg> What about this: sudo start freenx-server
<dgroos1>  Unknown job: freenx-server
<alkisg> Hmmm that doesn't sound good. I haven't tried installing freenx to lucid yet, but according to your dpkg -L, that should work...
<dgroos1> alkisg: arrrg!  looks like I spaced a step in the install directions--I'll do and get back...
<alkisg> (installing neatx is just 2 commands with no configuration at all, that's why i prefer it :))
<dgroos1> I'm feeling that right now...
<dgroos1> I tried to do the 'missed step': sudo /usr/lib/nx/nxsetup --install
<dgroos1> and got the message 'No such file or directory'. So I went and checked it out, sure enough, nothing by that name though a number of 'nx...' objects.
<alkisg> dgroos1: no idea, as I said I haven't tried installing freenx on lucid, but I have a few minutes for vnc-based help if you want...
<dgroos1> alkisg: just got back and saw your offer.  Thanks, I've got some more things to try--seems like another person had a bad install of the sw and reinstalled and it worked.  I'll let you know.
<dgroos1> alkisg: sure enough, the problem was a missing script file in the package.  I'll note that on the wiki page as well as where to download it.
<alkisg> Eew... better file a bug report about this
<dgroos1> NX is working great!  I love it.  Filed bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/freenx-server/+bug/618906 and improved the ubuntu wiki page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeNX
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 618906 in FreeNX Server "freenx package incomplete in lucid" [Undecided,New]
<alkisg> Which script was missing?
<alkisg> nm - i just read the bug report :)
<dgroos1> alkisg: now on to installing your uber italc script :)
<alkisg> Hmm? italc?
 * alkisg stopped using italc about a year ago...
<dgroos1> your italc replacement...
<dgroos1> the one you gave me instructions to install on a june 16 list-serve post...
<alkisg> Ah. Nice, if you want any help ping me
<dgroos1> I read these directions: sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ts.sch.gr-ppa-lucid.list\ /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list.d BUT...
<dgroos1> there was a line break and didn't know what the \ / was :)
<dgroos1> help?
<alkisg> That \ shouldn't be there
<dgroos1> 'k
<dgroos1> thanks
<alkisg> Btw, we have some programs in our ppa - you'll get automatic updates for them. E.g. we have neatx in that ppa (so there was no need to add the freenx repository, just an apt-get install neatx-server would be enough), some fixes for ltsp etc
<dgroos1> alas... I show have installed your scripts *before* adding nx...
<alkisg> Ah now i got what the \ was, it's used when a command breaks on 2 lines
<alkisg> so e.g. this: echo \
<alkisg> hi
<alkisg> is the same as: echo hi
<dgroos1> programming...
<dgroos1> OK upon installing the scripts I got this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/479086/ should I be concerned?
<alkisg> Yes - we're using dnsmasq instead of dhcp3-server
<alkisg> To make ltsp installation easier (e.g. use only 1 nic instead of 2, no need for NATting etc) and to use the dhcp server of the router
<alkisg> You have an already working ltsp setup, right?
<dgroos1> Yes, 64 bit server, 32 bit clients, 2 nics (actually, I've got 3 nics, hope to bind the two giga nics to be 1 as this is for 40 clients or so).
<alkisg> Are they pci-e nics or just pci nics?
<dgroos1> not sure...  how can I find out?
<alkisg> (also, we don't use 64-bit servers as they're not recommented by ubuntu - flash problems etc)
<dgroos1> will that be an issue?
<dgroos1> I mean, using your scripts on this 64 bit server?
<alkisg> With sch-scripts? I don't think so, I suppose they'll work fine
<alkisg> What are your client specs? cpu/ram?
<dgroos1> most are p4, 512 RAM, at least 1.8 GHz
<alkisg> Are you planning on operating them as thin clients or as fat?
<dgroos1> Also have P3 with 512 RAM and 933 MHz
<dgroos1> I used them last year as localapps, was going to continue this.
<alkisg> ok
<alkisg> Run this command to prevent dnsmasq from messing with your dhcp3-server: sudo dpkg-divert --divert /etc/dnsmasq.diverted --rename /etc/init.d/dnsmasq
<dgroos1> Did it.  Thanks!  I'll continue on with the directions upon returning from an errand.  I'll probably have questions for you... tomorrow your time?
<alkisg> Sure, good luck
#edubuntu 2010-08-17
<stefandebacker> does anyone has a solution for the following strang problem. When I add a user in my edubuntu, everything goes well except the location of "documents, music, etc..." is wrong. it links to the wrong user
<alkisg1> getent passwd user
<alkisg1> What does this tell you?
<stefandebacker> the name of the user is: test3. when i do the command it gifs: test3:x:1007:1007,,,:/home/test3:/bin/bash
<alkisg> OK. Next, sudo cat /home/test3/.config/user-dirs.dirs
<alkisg> !pastebin
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<alkisg> And finally, ls -lha -R /etc/skel
<stefandebacker> the first command: everything links = "$home/..."
<stefandebacker> XDG_DESKTOP_DIR="$HOME/Bureaublad"
<stefandebacker> XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR="$HOME/Bureaublad"
<stefandebacker> XDG_TEMPLATES_DIR="$HOME/"
<stefandebacker> XDG_PUBLICSHARE_DIR="$HOME/"
<stefandebacker> XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR="$HOME/"
<stefandebacker> XDG_MUSIC_DIR="$HOME/"
<stefandebacker> XDG_PICTURES_DIR="$HOME/"
<stefandebacker> XD
<stefandebacker> but "Bureaublad" works correct
<stefandebacker> second command. All the files are own by systeembeheerder:systeembeheerder which is the user I have used to make the skel with
<alkisg> stefandebacker: use the pastebin to paste those files / commands
<alkisg> See above, I wrote the link to it.
<alkisg> If you messed with /etc/skel, that's probably the cause of your problems
<stefandebacker> do you want everything, it seems to be quiet a lot
<stefandebacker> probably
<stefandebacker> what I did was: set de user settings like i wanted them, and then copied everything from the home/systeembeheerder folder to /etc/skel
<alkisg> Try moving your old skel and create a new empty one, and then create a new user and see if that new user has the problem
<alkisg> That's not good practice
<alkisg> That's why then all your new users point to the same user
<stefandebacker> everything seems to work fine, just the links of Documents and music, enz...
<stefandebacker> sure
<stefandebacker> what's a better methode?
<alkisg> Using sabayon
<stefandebacker> i tried that, but had some problems
<stefandebacker> do you think i can fix the links in gnome?
<alkisg> You'll find other problems too. Sure, you can solve them one by one, but it'll be a constant headache.
<alkisg> grep -r "systeembeheerder" /etc/skel
<stefandebacker> hum
<alkisg> ==> you need to remove all references for that
<stefandebacker> did you get the past on past.ubuntu.com?
<stefandebacker> do i understand it correctly: i have to remove all files I get with: grep -r "systeembeheerder" /etc/skel
<alkisg> No, I didn't get the paste, you need to also paste the URL here
<alkisg> No, don't remove those files. Those are the files that have a problem, but you need to fix each problem manually.
<stefandebacker> http://paste.ubuntu.com/479356/
<alkisg> By deleting those files you just delete all the customizations you made
<alkisg> Just use sabayon, the method you're trying to use isn't a good one.
<stefandebacker> ok
<stefandebacker> so would it work if i change /etc/skel/.gtk-bookmarks which has: file:///home/systeembeheerder/Documenten
<stefandebacker> in file://$home/Documenten
<dgroos> oops -- meant to ping alkisg on THIS channel...
<alkisg> hey dgroos
<dgroos> incredible you sch-scripts!
<alkisg> Heh, I don't think the channel matters much... sch-scripts uses ltsp anyway :)
<alkisg> Thanks!
<alkisg> To translate the interface, you'd need to change the sch-scripts.glade file
<alkisg> You can do that with the glade3 editor
<dgroos> even though it's greek to me, I'm liking this program better than italc which, at its best, worked slowly and buggy.
<alkisg> (sudo apt-get install glade; glade-3)
<dgroos> not to say that I didn't appreciate it, of course, as it helped out in class.
<dgroos> I really like how snappy it is.
<alkisg> When I finish my phd I'm going to properly internationalize sch-scripts, but unfortunately for the next 2 years I won't be able to give much time to it
<dgroos> I'll download glade-3 and get started!
<alkisg> Bugs are there, of course, but I like the backend much more than the italc backend
<dgroos> for sure.  The only think I've had an issue with so far is unlocking a screen.  Is that just me?
<dgroos> Also, as you predicted, it does work via NX on my desktop.
<alkisg> dgroos: ah, if you lock the screen twice, it doesn't unlock anymore. Known bug, fix committed but not released
<dgroos> I'll remember that.
<alkisg> At the end of september I'm going to give a week to sch-scripts, so any feedback you give till then will be put into that new version
<dgroos> How would you like me to submit the feed back?
<alkisg> You can file bugs here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sch-scripts
<alkisg> You can ask questions here: https://answers.launchpad.net/sch-scripts
<alkisg> We don't have a dedicated mailing list (we using a generic #linux.sch.gr list for all linux subjects related to education in greece) so if you want you can also mail me directly at alkisg at gmail
<alkisg> Most sch-scripts devs also hang out at the #linux.sch.gr irc channel
<dgroos> great thanks, and suggestions should go where--in bugs.launchpad, no?
<alkisg> Sure, and I'll just tag them as wishlists if applicable.
<dgroos1> trying to install glade gave me a heap of warnings--help? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/479435/
<alkisg> Urm, and finally it gets installed or not?
<alkisg> (it's not a very stable program, so save often, but usually it gets the work done)
<alkisg> bbl
<dgroos1> alkisg: sure, and looks like it did.  I'll find out.
<dgroos1> alkisg: ping
<alkisg> dgroos1: pong
<dgroos1> I used glade-3 to edit copies of executeCommand.glade and sch-scripts.glade.
<dgroos1> I reinserted them back in their original places and sure enough the menu names of the main window are now in English.
<alkisg> Nice!
<dgroos1> However, I changed a lot more than that but see no other changes.  What did I miss?
<alkisg> I'm not sure what you mean there. E.g. you changed 20 menu captions, and only 10 of them are actually changed?
<dgroos1> Let me find an example...
<dgroos1> In glade, I opened sch-scripts.glade.  In the Widgets menu I selected 'mainwindow/vbox1/miClients/file and changed the "Label:" to "_File" and looks like it worked.
<dgroos1> I then scrolled down, changed 'mainwindow/vbox1/toolbar/tbWakeOnLan to "WakeUp" but I don't see where that change took effect when I restarted sch-scripts.
<dgroos1> Actually, I scrolled through every menu item in the Widgets and changed every label I saw in Greek to English.
<dgroos1> but I don't see effect anywhere.
<dgroos1> Maybe the menu lists were already in English, on second thought, and I didn't effect any change in the workings of sch-scripts?
<alkisg> dgroos1: can you send me your updated .glade file to check?
<dgroos1> sure, via e-mail or...?
<alkisg> pastebin would do, i guess..
<dgroos1> opened the file with gedit, pasted it into pastebin, tried to save and got the message that "PHP and other web scripts are not allowed" so wouldn't save.  I'll e-mail or is there a trick...?
<alkisg> dgroos1: try ltsp.pastebin.com
<dgroos1> OK got rid of the > at the start of the first two lines and it posted at: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/479502/
<alkisg> @(#*$&(#*@ I need to sign on to launchpad to download it as plain text... my god I don't think I"ll use paste.ubuntu.com again :)
<dgroos1> :)  I'll re-load on the ltsp.pastebin...
<dgroos1> and the other file is: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/utqBwBK5
<alkisg> Nah ok I got it, it's just stupid how ubuntu pastebin works
<dgroos1> just in case... http://ltsp.pastebin.com/7A0fac3J
<dgroos1> brb
<alkisg> dgroos1: you didn't translate any of the menu items, though - only the main menus...
<alkisg> For example: Clients Â» Î£ÏÎ½ÎµÎ´ÏÎ¯Î± Â» ÎÎºÎºÎ¯Î½Î·ÏÎ· needs to be translated to Clients > Session > Wake on lan - or something like that
<zerothis> Both ed/x/ubuntu 10.04 freezes after splash. Low-graph mode freezes on its warning dialog. Early versions work fine
<alkisg> zerothis: for generic ubuntu questions, try #ubuntu
<alkisg> You'll get more answers there
<zerothis> Thx
<alkisg> It's probably a problem with your graphics card and you could try nomodeset as a kernel parameter or something
<dgroos1> ah, is that the: &#x39A;&#x3BB;&#x3B5;&#x3AF;&#x3B4;&#x3C9;&#x3BC;&#x3B1; &#x3BF;&#x3B8;&#x3CC;&#x3BD;&#x3B7;&#x3C2; in the xml file?
<alkisg> dgroos1: no idea, why don't you do it from glade-3?
<dgroos1> Yes, trying but can't find anything that I haven't translated.  How do I find it?
<alkisg> Click on the clients menu so that it opens, and then click on some submenu, and change its label from the properties to the right
<dgroos1> Not sure how I missed it.  I'll do these and give a try.  Thanks!
<highvoltage> mhall119: hey, are you around?
<mhall119> yup
<dgroos1> alkisg: Looking at the .glade file with gedit looks like I changed most things except the 'tooltiptext'.  Where do I find that?
<dgroos1> Yes, just tested and all menu stuff is in English!  The mouse-over text still isn't translated.
<alkisg> dgroos1: select a menu item, and then click the Common tab on the right
<alkisg> The tooltips are there
<dgroos1> OK and can't see where to change the Greek words at the top of the list of users box or the word at the top of the box below that (say groups, maybe?)
<alkisg> Some of the words might be in the source code so they cannot be easily changed (unless you change gui.py)
<alkisg> I'm talking to the other devs in #linux.sch.gr to see if someone has time to properly internationalize at least the UI of sch-scripts...
<dgroos1> That would be awesome, for sure.  What is left besides the translations I'm doing?
<alkisg> Adding internationalization support means to add the infrastructure for .po files
<alkisg> It's a big change, and I don't have the time for it now, but I hope others do have the time...
<alkisg> Now, the way you did it, your .glade file will be overwritten on the first sch-scripts update
<dgroos1> You folks have really made quite a program here--at least rivals iTALC if not having even more features.
<dgroos1> :-(
<dgroos1> I'd hoped that wouldn't be so...
<alkisg> Thanks - we'll be using it ourselves on our classrooms so we won
<alkisg> won't abandon it ever unless something better comes up
<alkisg> Unfortunately I'm the main developer and I need to finish my phd so it'll be in 'low-maintainance' mode for the next 2 years...
<alkisg> ...unless the other devs can do more. I hope so :)
<dgroos1> I'm very impressed with it, will give it a test in my classroom, and will e-mail out on the list-serves my experiences with it.
<dgroos1> alkisg: here's the contents of sch-scripts.glade with all Greek translated to English with help of google translate and my best guesses of those :) http://ltsp.pastebin.com/1mrp0YU2
<alkisg> Thanks dgroos1 :)
<dgroos1> and the executeCommand.glade is fully translated in the already posted page above.
<dgroos1> You're welcome :)
<dgroos1> Also, thinking about it, it won't be much of a chore translating the new versions of these files when updated, I'll be able to reference my current copy and copy/paste.
<dgroos1> How do I know when this will update or better said, what can I do to make sure that it only updates when I'm ready to update it?
<dgroos1> Also, on a different question, since if have both stgraber's and your ppa in my sources, how will I/the computer, know which versions of ltsp files to update to?  Do I need to worry about this?  Are they the same versions?
<highvoltage> it will use the package with the highest version number
<dgroos1> hi highvoltage
<dgroos1> So... if one person updates ltsp the other person's update would go on top of that...
<dgroos1> so, they aren't branches, I didn't know.
<dgroos1> Thanks.
<alkisg> dgroos1: for example, I now have an updated gnome-session in my ppa, which fixes the problem with ltsp client reboot (they normally logout instead of rebooting)
<highvoltage> hi dgroos1
<alkisg> If an updated gnome-session lands on ubuntu-updates, then you'll lose that extra functionality until I put a newer gnome-session to my ppa again
<dgroos1> alkisg: congrats! that was an annoying bug :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: something like that. using ppa's (and especially multiple ppas with the same packages) come with some risk, which is why things should ideally go into -backports with PPAs just being something temporary. and where -backports can't be used, use some kind of official ppa for the project instead
<alkisg> highvoltage: what risk? (except for unexperienced developers?)
<alkisg> I can't put non-accepted packages to -backports... that's why we're using PPAs, for things that can't go to the official archives...
<dgroos1> alkisg: what does this mean for me in a practical sense?  How should I manage my sudo apt-get update/upgrades?
<dgroos1> If it's a bit complex it might be worth sending out to the mailing lists...
<highvoltage> alkisg: I know, but it's possibly to get an unexpected upgrade and lose some improvements or changes
<dgroos1> I think I might not be the only one unsure on this, as well as when to update the chroot, as well.
<highvoltage> hmm, are we specifically talking about ltsp PPAs or PPAs in general?
<highvoltage> (sorry I kind of picked up the end of the discussion there)
<alkisg> dgroos1: our ppa aims at helping inexperienced teachers, so idealy you/they don't have to do anything. You might get a "loss of functionality" for some hours or even days until I upload a newer package, but that's about it...
<alkisg> highvoltage: well, any PPAs, of course if they're maintained properly...
<dgroos1> alkisg: so I just do a simple update/upgrade?
<dgroos1> and do an ltsp-build-client
<dgroos1> no need to go into the chroot?
<alkisg> dgroos1: for the chroot, it's as usual with ltsp: you need to update it regularly
<alkisg> E.g. if a security update to the kernel comes out, then the chroot needs to be upgraded, and ltsp-update-image/ltsp-update-kernels to be called etc
<alkisg> The same for sch-scripts, e.g. some times the sch-client script needs to be updated (but we tried to make it simple + rather stable, because we know many teachers won't update their chroots)
<dgroos1> good to know.  Also, I just tried to 'shutdown' from the client and it just logged out.  Is that because I've not ever done an ltsp-update-kernels?
<alkisg> You didn't update your chroot after you installed our ppa to it
<alkisg> (or maybe the server, don't remember...)
<alkisg> Try it from inside the sch-scripts, it should be pretty easy
<alkisg> (the chroot - for the server you do it as usual)
<dgroos1> sch-scripts is SO quick!
<dgroos1> I'll try these things upon returning this eve.  alkisg: Thanks for your work and your help.
<alkisg> You're welcome :)
#edubuntu 2010-08-18
<alkisg> dgroos1: a better way to disable dnsmasq (instead of dpkg-divert) is to change /etc/default/dnsmasq so that it has ENABLED=0
<dgroos1> alkisg: thanks, got it.
<alkisg> Good morning
<alkisg> Meeting today?
<dgroos> right--in 3.5 hours?
<highvoltage> dgroos: yep!
<highvoltage> Edubuntu meeting in 2 hours.
<highvoltage> Edubuntu Meeting Time!
<highvoltage> (oh, almost, anyway :) )
<highvoltage> alkisg, alkisg, dgroos, dinda, HedgeMage, jussi,jussi, mhall119, pleia2, stgraber, vmlintu: meeting-in-2-minutes-ping :)
<highvoltage> (will be in #ubuntu-meeting)
<alkisg> ty :)
<alkisg> !info gnome-nanny maverick
<ubottu> Package gnome-nanny does not exist in maverick
<alkisg> !info nanny maverick
<ubottu> nanny (source: nanny): Parental Control System. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.29.4-0ubuntu2 (maverick), package size 740 kB, installed size 2124 kB
<dinda> http://thejournal.com/articles/2010/07/15/how-to-get-started-with-open-source-in-k-12.aspx?sc_lang=en
<dinda> The entire July edition was dedicated to using open source
#edubuntu 2010-08-19
<alkisg> Good morning
<vmlintu> morning
<g4tsu> hi
<g4tsu> I've got a problem with italc
<g4tsu> (on LTSP)
<g4tsu> I can see the client in the italc manager
<g4tsu> But I can't make any actions like "send a message" "logout the client" etc
<dgroos> alkisg: Arrg! I give up on nx (if I can get neatx-server to work!)--can't get it to work, again.
<dgroos>  I did as you suggested and installed the neatx-server w/ apt-get.
<dgroos> don't see instructions on what to do then?
<dgroos_> my server and thin clients can access the internet no problem.  BUT...
<dgroos_> From my server I can't ping the building's router!
<dgroos_> I can ping the DNS host on the WAN.
<dgroos_> I've got it defined in /etc/network/interfaces as the 'network' value for the WAN facing NIC.
<dgroos_> Any idea where I might have this misconfigured?  I need to do NX and it stopped working upon moving the server to the school today.  Ithink this might relate to the problem.
<alkisg> dgroos_: sorry, hard disk problems... need any help?
<dgroos_> Thanks alkisg. I figured out a mistake I'd made and am trying to correct.  Maybe you can quickly put me on the correct path...
<dgroos_> Looking at /etc/network/interfaces, how should the ethx entry look like that faced the wan?
<alkisg> Static or dynamic?
<dgroos_> well, I just rebooted this very instant and looks like things might be hunky dorey...
<dgroos_> I set it as dhcp but also specified the ip, not sure if that makes sense (static didn't seem to work, generally true?).
<alkisg> You can set either static or dhcp, but no, specifying both is wrong
<alkisg> auto eth0
<alkisg> iface eth0 inet dhcp
<alkisg> That's for dynamic
<alkisg> iface eth0 inet static
<alkisg> address 192.168.192.10
<alkisg> netmask 255.255.255.0
<alkisg> gateway 192.168.192.1
<alkisg> That's for static
<alkisg> And, you can even use network-manager, you don't _have_ to use .../interfaces..
<alkisg> Better PM me with the whole interfaces file, to tell you specifically what's wrong...
<dgroos_> I think it may be working, give me a sec...
<dgroos_> I can only get access to the internet when I have the wan-facing nic set to dhcp, but I would like it to have a static ip.  I seem to remember that it has to be dhcp?
<dgroos_> ltsp.pastebin.com/s0hKPXJd
<dgroos_> http://ltsp.pastebin.com/s0hKPXJd
<dgroos_> alkisg: I need to go.  Thanks so much for the question--seems like with dhcp I've got all functionality I need, even NX is almost working again.  I'm just a bit worried about having dhcp on my server.
<alkisg> Ah sorry I wasn't watching
<alkisg> OK, good luck, later...
<dgroos_> have a great morning-- 1:40 AM ? :)
#edubuntu 2010-08-20
<Marians> Buenas noches!!
<Marians> Hola AlanBell, alkisg, AndyGraybeal, apachelogger, deci, highvoltage, isforinsects, juliux, jussi, jwhite, mhall119, ogra, pleia2, rockstar, squidly, stgraber, Tm_T, Tm_Tr, ubottu, ubuntulo1 y vmlintu!
<jussi> Marians: please dont do that...
<alkisg> Erm, good morning, but yeah, that just tells people to stop doing their jobs and look at the channel...
<Marians> ok
<mip> Hi Folks - I'm running 10.04.1 on asus eeepc1000he in a school lab environment. It's running great. I'd like to set it so that students can't alter the desktop picture, the panel, and also so that they can't see the credentials used to join the wireless network. Any ideas?
<mip> See y'all later. Peace.
#edubuntu 2011-08-16
<Kit> Hi, newbie here trying to install edubuntu on an old Acer laptop. Anyone feel up to giving me a hand, pls?
<KitFreeman> Hi. Anyone there, pls?
<alkisg> KitFreeman: what troubles you?
<KitFreeman>  Hi. I'm trying to install edubuntu on an old Acer 2300 Travelmate. It's not the most powerful machine, but I think it's just about ok. I'm new to linux-based computing but I'm fairly savvy in general. I've burned an install dvd with edubuntu 11.04, and set the lap to boot from the dvd drive. At first it goes fine, and the edubuntu menu comes up. But when I select install, it just hangs. The dvd whirrs a bit, then a sort of 'wo
<KitFreeman> [cont] ... and five dots below, which cycle clear/green. It just stays like that for hours with the dots clicking on/off (about 2 hours now, on the most recent attempt). Does anyone have any suggestions, pls?
<alkisg> KitFreeman: how much ram does that computer have?
<KitFreeman> 512KB L2 cache.
<alkisg> No, that's not the one, search for the one in MB
<alkisg> E.g. "256 MB RAM"
<alkisg> E.g. here it says 256 MB: http://support.acer.com/acerpanam/notebook/0000/Acer/TravelMate2300/TravelMate2300sp2.shtml
<KitFreeman> It says 256MB DDR. Is that too little?
<KitFreeman> ps sorry for ineptitude ;)
<alkisg> Yes, it's low for edubuntu. I'd suggest installing lubuntu, or even debian/lxde on it, and then adding the educational apps you're interested in from synaptic (the package manager)
<alkisg> lubuntu and debian/lxde use lxde, a desktop environment that needs less ram than gnome
<alkisg> (edubuntu uses gnome by default)
<KitFreeman> ok - thanks I'll try that. In general would you advise loading one of these OSes rather than sticking with the original Win XP install? I want to set up the machine for my 7 year old son.
<alkisg> It's hard to give advice for that. I have similar machines for my kids, dual boot with linux + xp
<alkisg> I want them to learn linux, and it's even simpler for them to operate, but e.g. flash based games are too slow to run on linux with that ancient hardware
<alkisg> (flash is badly implemented on linux, slower than on windows)
<alkisg> So they mostly work on linux, but they do have windows available as well, for some games
<KitFreeman> Thanks -- that's very helpful. And this old machine should be ok with a light linux + win XP dual install?
<alkisg> Yes, with either lubuntu or debian/lxde + xp dual install it should run fine
<alkisg> Of course if you could add more ram, it would help a lot
<alkisg> On both OSes
<KitFreeman> Well, thanks for your time - you've been very helpful. All best wishes
<alkisg> Good luck :)
<KitFreeman> Cheers! Take care.
#edubuntu 2011-08-17
<Pezhedz> hello edubuntu community
<Damianos> Hello Pezheds
<Pezhedz> is anyone gracious enough to help step me through troubleshooting my wireless setup?
<Pezhedz> I've searched and searched and tried everything with no success on the forums. :(
<Damianos> I'll try
<Pezhedz> yay!  Thank you!
<Damianos> what exactly is the problem?
<Pezhedz> I have an hpDV2700 Broadcom 4311
<Pezhedz> and have not had the wireless card recognized.
<Damianos> so it's not showing up in network manager?
<Pezhedz> no
<Damianos> what about if you do a  ifconfig?
<Pezhedz> iwconfig only displays lo and eth0
<Pezhedz> same with ifconfig (with additional info)
<Damianos> don't know what else to do...the only time I've ever had a NIC not detected was when I first started tinkering with Linux and a reinstall fixed it
<Damianos> sorry I couldn't be of help
<Damianos> I wonder if manually adding it to /etc/network/interfaces would do anything
<Pezhedz> no worries. i figured I'd try the IRC channels to see if anyone ran into the same sort of trouble
<Pezhedz> how do I do that?
<Pezhedz> (manually add it to /etc/network/interfaces ?)
<Damianos> well before network manager came onto the scene network interfaces used to be configured using the file /etc/network/interfaces
<Damianos> it should be commented with instructions on how to add an interface
<Pezhedz> ah ok
<Pezhedz> I think i stumbled upon that. I'll look at that again.
<Pezhedz> thanks for your time, Damianos.
<Damianos> lspci
<Damianos> dammit he left
<jbicha> hi, I have a merge proposal for bug 692295, am I going to need a FFE too?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 692295 in gcompris (Ubuntu) "New upstream versions - gcompris 9.4 and 9.5 were released at 2010-11, please package" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692295
#edubuntu 2011-08-18
<_aaron_> hi
<jbicha> hi, would someone from Edubuntu like to help sponsor bug 692295
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 692295 in Baltix "[FFe] Update gcompris to 9.6.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692295
<jbicha> since Edubuntu ships gcompris, it's your decision whether you want it or not I believe
<jbicha> it's such a huge package it takes a while to download and test it
#edubuntu 2011-08-19
<ewl> Hi. I have a question. Are there swedish dictionarys in the education-programs? Getting for my kids and they are 5 and 11. Is Edubuntu something for them or do I have to look for other education-programs?
<alkisg> ewl: edubuntu is a distro that contains education programs, e.g. tuxpaint, tuxtype, gcompris etc
<alkisg> Those programs are available outside of edubuntu too. Edubuntu just bundles them along with nice themes etc
<alkisg> Most of them are translated to many languages
<ewl> Aha, okey.
<alkisg> But translations isn't a matter of distro, it's a matter of the programs you use.
<alkisg> So if the program has been translated, you'll be able to use it in swedish from any distro
<ewl> Yeah. I know. I think I have to look into it a bit more and see if there are translations. I think *buntu is far greater than Windows. That's why I thought about switching to Edubuntu instead of Win7.
<alkisg> When you install edubuntu, all translations for swedish will be automatically installed
<ewl> Ah, cool.
<alkisg> So it's probably the easiest way to test
<ewl> Sorry, have to go. I'll be back later if I have more questions. Thanks so much for the help!
<alkisg> Bye
<Barco> Hi Guys, can anyone assist with Internet setup on Edubuntu using a Adsl Router
<highvoltage> hey Barco
<Barco> Hi!  How are you doing?
<highvoltage> Barco: good thanks. it's been a while since I configured adsl, but I usually just installed the pppoeconf package and ran 'sudo pppoeconf' from the command line and it set up everything
<highvoltage> (I think network manager can do that for you too now if you use it)
<Barco> I was heading in the direction of setting up a gateway to eth0 since I'm running LTSP and was thinking not to mess too much with it's setup
<Barco> Added my gateway to /etc/network/interfaces
<highvoltage> ah right
<Barco>  /etc/init.d/networking restart
<highvoltage> sorry yes, you're on the right path
<Barco> but unfortunately I still can't connect to the gateway even though I can ping it and it's not conflicting with anything
<highvoltage> do you ping it by name or IP?
<highvoltage> what do you get when you run 'route'?
<Barco> Ping by Ip, here's the output of my current ifconfig... http://pastebin.com/abPbqLXu
<highvoltage> ah you have a ppp connection up, where does that come from? and what's the IP address of your router?
<highvoltage> do you run LTSP on a seperate card than the rest of your network? perhaps you meant to have 192.168.0.254 on eth1 and dhcp on eth0
<Barco> I'm connecting to the web through a 3G Broadband router. Gateway is 192.168.0.253
<Barco> I'm not quite clear on the use of dual network cards for internet Yet. Would that mean I would need a third network card if I decide to run 2 network cards for the lab? i.e. 5 clients per card?
<highvoltage> you could, but you don't have to
<highvoltage> Barco: can you ping 8.8.8.8?
<Barco> I
<Barco> I'll try...
<Barco> Jup loud and clear, slow at 254 - 360ms...
<Barco> What am I pinging?
<Barco> Having bandwith problems in the lab as a result of hardware. Was advised to switch to server lan cards to help with throttling. Apparently the Realtec nic's don't run at 1gb when connected with 100mb clients.
<highvoltage> that's google's public nameserver, it means your internet connection is working, you probably just need to edit /etc/resolv.conf
<highvoltage> if you have "nameserver 8.8.8.8" in there your internet will probably work
<highvoltage> but "nameserver 192.168.0.253" should also work if you want to use your ISP nameserver through your router
<Barco> Currently connecting through the 3g modem - will have to disconect to give you a clear indication. Will add the nameserver. Just a sec...
<Barco> Shot Highvoltage. the nameserver was the missing ingredient. I get a little disorientated on Linux. Names and locations are very different to 20years of Dos/Windows experience.  But I like linux more except when I have no clue what next. Gives me compassion for computer newbs
<highvoltage> Barco: hehe, was the same for me, at least there's lots of patient people out there willing to help :)
<Hyperbyte> I would've probably hung myself if it weren't for helpful Freenode users. :)
<highvoltage> just out of curiosity, is the 3g connection on vodacom? that IP range looks familiar
<Barco> Probably a Vodacom tower. It's a Cell C connection. I came I saw, I moved on LOL
<highvoltage> heh
<Barco> You work with lot's of ips it seems. What do you do when you're not occupied by Ubuntu-IRC
<highvoltage> how is cell C's 3g? their prices look ok but I don't know how good their coverage is. I was thinking of getting a cell c prepaid 3g card for my mother
<Barco> I'm in Bfn. Here we battle a bit. Other cities are raving about Cell C. I had disconnect issues and bandwidth dropout (i.e. after a connection the latency would increase indefinitely while the connection stays up).
<Barco> Sometimes I had disconnections in 15-30sec intervals for 2-3 hours. Try sending email ;)
<Barco> Coverage is unpredictable. But word on the street is that things are different in Gauteng
<Barco> What have you heard about 8ta's connections?
<highvoltage> I know someone in cape town who had similar problems than you on cell c
<highvoltage> I know no one who uses 8ta.
<Barco> I told them it's capacity and network equipment related. But learned in 3months mediation that the modem also played a factor. Worked through icassa and got a refund. Then misteriously they sent me a refund and gave me the modem back ?
<highvoltage> 8ta's coverage map doesn't look to bad, but it's Telkom so I don't think I want to support them anyway
<Barco> Neither do I. Offering seems incredible. Their network is said to be uncongested currnetly but I don't expect it to remain so much longer.
<Barco> Why are you against telkom?
<highvoltage> because they've stolen enough money from south africans already.
<Barco> I've been through 18months combined mediation with Cell C and Mtn because of service. Telkom has a way better track record if you look at the figures.
<highvoltage> which figures?
<Barco> Personal experience with Adsl and other Clients. I meet disgruntled Cellular, Iburst clients weekly and sometimes daily.
<highvoltage> I literally know 100s of disgruntled telkom users and we even closed some streets in cape town once to protest against them
<Barco> appart form ports I have not heard of many issues with telkom in a long time.
<Barco> Try Iburst - they deliver a modem to me to resell to Client the don't activate the modem and hold the client to a contract while he receives no service. Took 3 Months to resolve!
<highvoltage> haven't you following the news recently about telkom trying to prevent local loop unbundling?
<highvoltage> that's just evil, and it's a reason I won't support 8ta :)
<Barco> NO, but read about it a while back. I'm kindof undecided about the whole thing.
<highvoltage> well, you'll never have real competition until telkom stops keeping all of the fixed-wire infrastructure hostage
<Barco> Unbundling will reduce pricing drasticly. But I've witnessed first hand what happened between Adsl ISP's and Telkom when things go wrong. Both parties blame eachother.
<highvoltage> and I find that particularly appauling considering that all of the initial infrastructure was put in place with tax payer money
<Barco> I'm concerned that Adsl will become poorly maintained if it gets unbundled leaving SA without any reliable internet.
<Barco> That issue aside I do believe in the unbundling proccess. Just seen too many times how something that is owned by too many people gets treated without respect. i.e. pool cars
<highvoltage> well, with LLU you'd be able to have a landline without going through Telkom at all, so you won't necessarilly have that fingerpointing scenario
<highvoltage> anyway, I need to get back to work :)
<Barco> Hmm, sounds like fun. First true landline competition and the beginning of affordable telephony in Za
<Barco> So what's Telkom's argument against LLU
<highvoltage> Barco: well, it's simple really. they make tons of money with with the infrastructure and don't want to lose money by giving anyone else access to it.
<Barco> I hear you defending a highly lucrative position.
<highvoltage> yep.
<highvoltage> oh I read on Wikipedia that a deadline for LLU has been set for 1 November
<Barco> But the increase in internet availablillity through other providers and networks like the fiber backbone CellC, Neotel, Mtn and Vodacom are building is set to create competition by itself also.
<highvoltage> I doubt Telkom will actually co-operate though
<Barco> I hear you. The inevitable is about to happen. I was reading about how slow 3g cards are slowing down Cellular tower
<Barco> 's bandwidth.
<highvoltage> yeah, all the fibre infrastructure that everyone is putting in place will go a long way, but those companies could do so much more if they could also provide the last-mile connections into people's homes and sme's.
<Barco> Means faster voip capable connections on 3g eventually.
<Barco> Last mile is a tedious web of wire.
<Barco> :)
<highvoltage> not sure on how many networks you can legally do it though. MTN and Vodacom at least has policies that if they catch you doing voip without their authorization they can charge you R20/MB for it (effectively making it as expensive as a normal voice call)
<highvoltage> hehe, yes it is
<Barco> Well they have not caught me yet - he he
<Barco> But that's a nasty policy though.
<highvoltage> yeah, I haven't heard of anyone who's been caught though. I'm not sure if they actually do any deep-packet inspection to check for it
<Barco> Except if all of us start at once. It'll take them months to get through the stats.
<Barco> Voip on Cellphones is inevitable. If Cellular rates where more fair the market would not be as open to it.
<Barco> Thanks again for your assistance! Now I'm rid of the unstable internet on the server...
#edubuntu 2012-08-13
<pmwangi80ke> hi, am looking to get rid of the choppy video streaming on my thin clients. My server is a dell optiplex core i3 with 8gig of ram and serving 16 clients. Does buying an expensive graphics accelerator card help in any way? Any idea is much welcome
#edubuntu 2012-08-14
<Guest81857> FUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTU
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<Guest81857> FUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTU
<Guest81857> FUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTU
<Guest81857> FUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUF
<Guest81857> UCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTU
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<Guest81857> FUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTU
<Guest81857> FUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTU
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<Guest81857> FUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTUFUCK UBUNTU
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<Tm_T> I'm slow, sorry
<smartboyhw> HI!
<bencer> stgraber: i've here zentyal running on quantal
<bencer> samba modules has some patches that need to be merged, from two different branches
<bencer> but hey, we are very close :)
<stgraber> yay!
<bencer> samba4 is working quite nicely in precise
<bencer> i made a demo the other day
<bencer> with a win2k8 dc and zentyal as a dc in the same domain
<bencer> of course, standalone mode, works perfectly
<bencer> the integration is taking longer than expected
<bencer> that's why i've been delaying the ubuntu uploads
<bencer> but its time now, i'm going to upload to my ppa without samba tomorrow
<bencer> you can test and give me feedback
<bencer> and hopefully in two days all the samba branches are merged
<bencer> and we can upload everything
<jocarter> bencer: great :)
#edubuntu 2012-08-15
<XDS2010> any chinese here ?
#edubuntu 2012-08-16
<jocarter> stgraber: where do I get python3-lxc these days? I notice it's not on your experimental ppa anymore
<stgraber> jocarter: ?? it's still in my experimental PPA
<stgraber> (built by lxc)
<jocarter> stgraber: hmm, indeed, apparently I'm drunk :)
<stgraber> though if you're using quantal you'd need to pin that version as I haven't yet rebased on the new version from the archive
<TheProf> Good afternoon.  I hope everyone is doing well today.  My question is in regards to how to retain /home when doing a format and clean install of Edubuntu 12.04?  Is it enough to tar.gz, move to external drive, install, and then untar into /home?
<jocarter> for the data, yes. if your users are created on the local machine it wouldn't hurt to copy along /etc/passwd too
<jocarter> (and their passwords are in /etc/shadow if you'd like to preserve that, if they're local users)
<jocarter> TheProf: it's also possible to choose to preserver the /home directory during installation. so you could make that tarball backup for the worst-case scenario that something goes wrong
<TheProf> jocarter, that's an interesting option.
<TheProf> For the user information I usually use webmin to export the users (UID, GID, etc) and then I import it again after installation and it seems to work each time.
<TheProf> Now if I wanted to make the question more confusing for part II : ) - I currently have a 1 TB drive on the ltsp server set to /home.  I bought a new 1 TB drive to install to make it a Mirror Raid (RAID 1).
<TheProf> So I don't think I can add the second drive AND retain /home correct?
<jocarter> you can convert an existing disk to a raid 1 setup... but doing raid over USB sounds a bit dodgy to me
<jocarter> (/home on use is already something I'd avoid for performance reasons already)
<TheProf> jocarter, I'm sorry I wasn't being clear. The 2nd drive is an internal one.
<TheProf> the external drive was for backing up /home.
<TheProf> I think the ideal situation would be to add the second drive internally, convert the setup to RAID 1, then clean install and ask it to leave /home as is.  I'm a bit nervous with adding the second drive and converting to RAID 1.
<TheProf> I found these instructions online -- does anyone see any issues with them please? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1703904
<jott_> I'm having problems with my new install of edubuntu
<jott_> 12.04 and having problems with the NIC
<jott_> is anyone available that knows how I can get my Network card working properly?
<jott_> I'm stuck here
#edubuntu 2012-08-17
<jott_> wow....some support community
<jott_> bye
<jocarter> wow, some patience :)
<ajmitch> jocarter: yeah, how dare you not answer instantly :)
<jocarter> heh
<ajmitch> so I was hacking up stgraber's build script for the zatab stuff into a makefile along with some config, I'll push it to a branch on LP once I've got some spare time to sit down & get it working adequately
<ajmitch> I'm redoing it to write to an image that can be dd'ed to the tablet
<ajmitch> jocarter: have you got your tablets working yet?
<jocarter> stgraber: do you think it belongs in python3-lxc that I should be able to get the lxc version from it?
<jocarter> lol @ the lxc-version script
<smartboyhw> Hi, anyone here!!?!!!?!
<jocarter> smartboyhw: maybe
<smartboyhw> Hi!
<smartboyhw> Do you have guys who test for edubuntu?
<jocarter> smartboyhw: yep, but we could always do with a lot more help there
<smartboyhw> Yay! I'll do some
#edubuntu 2012-08-18
<TheProf> Hello - I tried to post to the mailing list but for some reasons my messages are not going through.  I have downloaded edubuntu 12.05 DVD x64 for clean installation.  How do I specify 2 identical drives to be set up as RAID 1 for /home please?
<TheProf> It's driving me crazy as I can't figure it out in the options.
<TheProf> Just some further description until someone can respond.  I have 3 drives: one SSD for the OS (where I will put / ), and 2 identical 1 TB drives for /home.
<TheProf> So on the SSD will go / and swap, and on a mirror RAID 1 will be /home.  I had it running for 2 years this way without raid no problem, but I wanted to take this opportunity to upgrade to install the 2nd drive for reliability.
#edubuntu 2012-08-19
<jackk> Hello, can someone tell me if this Linux has flash preinstalled? I am a huge fan of porn and would like to know.
<alkisg> Is it educational porn?
<jackk> alkisg: No it dirty
<alkisg> Try asking in #dirtylinux then :)
<alkisg> This is a channel for educational matters...
<jackk> alkisg: Is this OS made for 2 year olds?
<TheProf> Hello - I'm hoping someone is around who could help me please.  I need to install Edubunt 12.04 on our server.  I have one SSD for the OS (where I will mount / ) and 2 x 1 TB SATA drives I'd like in mirror RAID 1 for mounting /home.
<TheProf> I can't get the DVD installer to create the RAID.  What do I do please?
<TheProf> I did some reading and in the regular Ubuntu installation I must use an 'alternate' DVD which will recognize RAID.  But this means I will not get LTSP functionality.  I was under the impression that Edubuntu is also an 'alternate' DVD setup.
<alkisg> You can install both the edubuntu-desktop package and ltsp over any ubuntu installation
<stgraber> right, you can either use the ubuntu alternate disk with the LTSP option (press F4 on the CD menu), or install Edubuntu on your first disk and setup the raid for /home after installation
<TheProf> Hello -- thanks for your responses.  I was afraid of doing the edubuntu-desktop package as I was worried it was not as seamless as Edubuntu has been.
<TheProf> Especially with the backend integration (network, thin clients, applications, etc.)
<TheProf> stgraber: Do I understand you correctly that the ubuntu alternative disk has LTSP as an option? That would be perfect as it also has RAID.
<TheProf> I apologize if these are elementary questions - just the time pressure I've been put under makes this process rather stressful. Thank you.
<stgraber> TheProf: yeah, ubuntu alternate has an ltsp option, just press F4 and select ltsp server from the cd boot menu
<TheProf> stgraber: is that LTSP option = edubuntu? or would I also afterward install the edubuntu-desktop?
<stgraber> you'd need to install edubuntu-desktop afterwards to pull the educational tool
<TheProf> stgraber: Thank you very much.  I believe I understand it now.  I'll install Ubuntu Alternatve CD with RAID support (to get /home on RAID 1) and LTSP configuration, then once up and running install edubuntu-desktop to pull in the educational tools.
#edubuntu 2013-08-12
<stupidscript> Looking for list of thin clients (mfr, models) that work out of the box with Edubuntu 12.04 LTSP. TIA.
#edubuntu 2013-08-13
<highvoltage> stgraber: I guess you're in the real-life upstart vs systemd flamewar? :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: that's pretty much why I'm attending debconf ;)
<stgraber> highvoltage: so yeah, I'm in the first row at the talk
<highvoltage> hehe.
<highvoltage> stgraber: how has it been so far?
<highvoltage> stgraber: I saw tumbleweed walk by the camera a few moments ago. at least the video coverage is good.
<stgraber> highvoltage: Lennart made a rather sucky talk, so most people were quite sympathetic towards upstart after that
<highvoltage> :D
<stgraber> highvoltage: rest of Debconf has been rather good, it's nice having it here and it's also nice attending a conference just as an attendee and not having to run between rooms all the time
<highvoltage> Upstart is actually even nicer than I previously realised.
<highvoltage> stgraber: I hear lennart is sitting in the front row cleaning his finger nails. lol.
<stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, Lennart and Kay are on the other side of the front row, surprisingly they haven't interrupted yet, so that's actually quite nice
<stgraber> (Lennart is known to interrupt people all the time in the middle of their talks and not wait for questions)
<highvoltage> what the heck. my mother just brought me popcorn. and that never happens. I'll have to tweet this.
<stgraber> ;)
#edubuntu 2013-08-15
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, ping
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: pong
<highvoltage> (semi-afk though)
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, did you guys receive my mail on edubuntu-devel?
<stgraber> yep, it reached the list
<smartboyhw> stgraber, great:)
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: personally I have a backlog of edubuntu related mail... will get to it...
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, :)
<smartboyhw> It is sent just about 10 hours ago I think...
#edubuntu 2014-08-12
<mhall119> stgraber: highvoltage: http://ilopez.com/post/94458840765/this-is-the-computer-lab-i-built-in-malawi
<stgraber> nice!
<highvoltage> mhall119: thanks!
 * highvoltage wonders if they're running edubuntu on the pi hardware as well
#edubuntu 2014-08-14
<Lisac196> hi
<Lisac196> i need some help
<Lisac196> anybody speak croatian or i must type in english?
<Lisac196> I have instaled edubuntu with wubi
<Lisac196> i had some problems, but i completed instalation
<Lisac196> i didn't install ubuntu before edubuntu
<Lisac196> now, when i go to edubuntu it says that can't mount /tmp, some like that
#edubuntu 2015-08-12
<PeperPots___> How do i get the 64bit version on a LiveUSB from windows ?
<PeperPots___> The work machine is 64bit intel
<PeperPots___> nvm found the answer (i think)
<PeperPots___> will the 64bit version fit on a 4gb usb drive ?
#edubuntu 2015-08-13
<PeperPots___> Morning
<PeperPots___> Is there a way i can have the top statusbar show individual wireless icons as well as non truncated AP listings ?
<PeperPots___> I also kind of miss the black on white theme from version 10
#edubuntu 2020-08-12
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: bcache-tools (bionic-proposed/main) [1.0.8-2build1 => 1.0.8-2ubuntu0.18.04.1] (edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntu-server)
