#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-07
<ochosi> TheSheep: heya
<TheSheep> hello
<ochosi> so, if you have time we could discuss your concerns now, at least briefly :)
 * TheSheep <-- at work now, available for involved discussion in about 7 hours
<ochosi> okeydokey, i guess that'll be a bad time for me
 * ochosi will be out having drinks on his bd
<TheSheep> happy birthday
<ochosi> thanks :)
<ochosi> so let's postpone it to sometime soon
<ochosi> maybe tomorrow
<ochosi> (if i'm already sober again ;) )
<TheSheep> great
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<ochosi> charlie-tca: heya, i made a wiki-page for collecting xubuntu publicity: http://wiki.knome.fi/xubuntu:natty_publicity
<charlie-tca> nice
<charlie-tca> It keeps it all in one place, which is good.
<charlie-tca> my question would be if it is for xubuntu, why didn't you make it part of the xubuntu wiki?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: dunno, i guess it's just a habit. we can move this stuff to the xubuntu wiki anytime
<charlie-tca> Oh, okay
<ochosi> what i did for xubuntu up to now just never really had this official touch, so i guess that's why i kept it in the shimmer wiki
<charlie-tca> I see. I can understand that then. I do like the idea of being able to find these things easy
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> if you say you want to have them in the xubuntu wiki i don't have any objections whatsoever
<charlie-tca> I keep having to dig for things I saw, and it gets kinda frustrating sometimes...
<ochosi> yeah, i understand
<ochosi> i have to go now, if you want copy/move these things to the xubuntu wiki and email me the links, i'll continue to use/update that there
<ochosi> see you around! o/
<charlie-tca> so, I moved all my /home to dropbox, and symlinked. That doesn't seem to be working so good
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> Now I got some stuff failing, and I think it is because of the links. Maybe I have to keep the settings files on my computer and rsync them back to dropbox, huh?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: congratulations on the new XFCE Foundation! How was FOSDEM?
<micahg> mr_pouit: do you need any help filing sync requests for xubuntu packages?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-08
<mr_pouit> micahg: not right now, because only a few ones have been uploaded, so I can still manage that. When all panel plugins (30+) are uploaded, your help will be welcome though ;P
<mr_pouit> (but some core libs are still in new, so there's still time)
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: :) that was nice, but a bit overcrowded (and I didn't attend to many talks, I mostly talked with the Xfce and some ubuntu-fr guys)
<ochosi> arr, just installed the latest updates on my natty install and now it doesn't even boot anymore
<ochosi> guess i gotta do a fresh install (which on the other hand is great for testing)
<charlie-tca> where is it stopping?
<ochosi> hard to say, stupid plymouth doesn't show any errors at all
<ochosi> maybe i'll mount the partition in maverick and look in /var/log
<charlie-tca> get to the grub menu, remove "quiet splash" so you can see the messages
<ochosi> yeah, that would be another option
<charlie-tca> hit shift right after bios check to get the grub menu
<ochosi> k, seems to be the nouveau driver not working well
<ochosi> Fatal server error:
<ochosi> [    10.463] no screens found
<charlie-tca> yup
<ochosi> maybe it's because of the options in my xorg.conf (that i need for the proprietary nvidia-driver)
<charlie-tca> You don't have a /etc/X11/xorg.conf file, do you?
<charlie-tca> Natty won't use the nvidia hardware driver yet, it is not compatible with Xserver 1.10
<ochosi> i renamed/moved it, will try to boot again now
<ochosi> brb
<ochosi> mkay, now it boots again
<ochosi> but i guess i have to put some stupid xrandr-command in my startup now
<ochosi> mr_pouit: you mentioned earlier that the panel-config is not in the settings-manager?
<charlie-tca> yeah, nouveau won't boot with the xorg.conf file. I don't know how to make it, either
<ochosi> awwwh, noveau/xrandr doesn't recognize my external screen
 * charlie-tca got his "one right thing" in for today
<ochosi> i mean now i have it cloned in a small section of the large external monitor
<ochosi> but that's about it
<ochosi> what's that, charlie-tca ?
<charlie-tca> that one I don't know how to fix, either
<charlie-tca> I only get one right answer a day, myself. I used it up for today...
<ochosi> k, but what answer was it?
<charlie-tca> your /etc/X11/xorg.conf stopping the boot
<ochosi> ah :D
<ochosi> btw, did you copy the stuff from the shimmer wiki to the xubuntu wiki already?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> no time yet. :-(
<ochosi> k, where would you want to put it?
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> charlie-tca: shall i create new points/links in "new objectives for natty"? (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap)
<ochosi> any other place is just as good with me, just let me know
<charlie-tca> sure
<charlie-tca> I don't see anything that works real good, and it will change for each release, won't it?
<ochosi> you mean the roadmap-thing?
<ochosi> or the wiki structure in general?
<charlie-tca> the publicity thing will be changed/added to for each new release
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> yeah
<charlie-tca> yeah, go ahead and create it
<ochosi> is that all you want to move from here: http://wiki.knome.fi/xubuntu:start ?
<ochosi> brb (gotta boot back to maverick, this small resolution is driving me nuts)
<charlie-tca> Isn't the rest your development stuff, that might go to any other distro as well, should you decide, or is it limited to xubuntu?
<mr_pouit> ochosi: it is, but it doesn't use "pluggable dialogs", so it will open a new window
<ochosi> charlie-tca: atm it's limited to xubuntu, i'm not involved in any other distros
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ah right, i never clicked it tbh :)
<charlie-tca> I leave it up to you, then. If you are comfortable with it on shimmer, it is fine
<charlie-tca> Otherwise, we can put it under Artwork
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> i'll think about it
<charlie-tca> I think our interest is in the final results, more than the development phases, it that makes any sense
<ochosi> yeah, that was also the main reason why i kept it in the shimmer wiki
<ochosi> i don't wanna spam the xubuntu wiki with dev-progress stuff
<charlie-tca> i can agree with that.
<ochosi> unless it's decided that people want to see more what happens behind the curtain
<ochosi> with which i'm also ok
<ochosi> maybe we can decide that for the next cycle
<charlie-tca> If someone requests it, we can do it
<ochosi> yep
<ochosi> wow, i could in fact go to the next UDS
<ochosi> it's pretty close to where i live
<charlie-tca> You could even apply for sponsorship
<micahg> charlie-tca: are you going to Budapest?
<ochosi> maybe not even needed, it's a 3hrs journey by train and i might be able to find a place to stay with friends
<charlie-tca> http://uds.ubuntu.com/
<charlie-tca> I want to
<charlie-tca> applied for it, at least
<charlie-tca> Might be way exhausting for me, but there is a Jazz festival that week in Budapest, too.
<charlie-tca> If I can get to UDS, I will try to get to that, too.
<ochosi> what jazz festival?
<charlie-tca> Jazz Spring 
<charlie-tca> International Jazz Festival
<charlie-tca> http://www.corinthia.com/Budapest/Budapest-guide/whats-on-in-Budapest/
<ochosi> looks nice
<charlie-tca> That was my thought. It is not cost prohibitive, either
<micahg> anyone have any issues upgrading Thunderbird on natty recently?
<charlie-tca> micahg: working here
<micahg> 3.1.8+build2+nobinonly-0ubuntu2?
<charlie-tca> version 3.1.8
<charlie-tca> 3.1.8+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu5 installed
<charlie-tca> 3.1.8+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu6 candidate
<micahg> charlie-tca: right, that's the old one still, there is a build2+ubuntu1 and build2+ubuntu2 now
<charlie-tca> hm, need to run updates again then
<charlie-tca> It is in updates, will run them and let you know
<micahg> charlie-tca: thanks
<charlie-tca> I only been updating once a day this week
<micahg> charlie-tca: I think that's pretty standard :)
<charlie-tca> Some weeks it is a 4-time a day thing
<charlie-tca> micahg: no errors on updates, starting thunderbird now
<micahg> charlie-tca: cool, thanks, you got all the way to build2 ubuntu2
<charlie-tca> yes
<micahg> ok, thanks
<charlie-tca> firefox 4.0b11 does not save tabs, even checked in preferences to reopen all tabs when starting
<charlie-tca> thunderbird worked
<micahg> charlie-tca: from chrisccoulson: you need to go to History -> Restore Previous Session
<charlie-tca> really?
<charlie-tca> Thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-09
<ochosi> TheSheep: i'd probably have time later today to discuss your concerns about the theme
<TheSheep> ochosi: awesome
<ochosi> TheSheep: one thing i wanted to mention though is that changing the theme has been on the roadmap for natty since the beginning
<ochosi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap > new objectives
<TheSheep> sure
<ochosi> since there were concerns about accessibility
<ochosi> also let me mention in advance that the current theme is based on the previous one and is a reworking towards more accessibility
<ochosi> so i guess the real change was the one from Albatross to Bluebird, but i guess that's up for discussion
<ochosi> one reason to create Bluebird was to have a bright alternative to the dark theme
<ochosi> TheSheep: sorry, seems now i kinda started the discussion when i just wanted to add a short prologue...
<ochosi> TheSheep: we can continue later, i have a meeting now
<ochosi> TheSheep: ping
<TheSheep> pong
<ochosi> i'm back and i have some time for discussion now, so in case you're available...
<TheSheep> ok, so let me just explain the motivation first
<ochosi> k
<TheSheep> sorry, distraction
<ochosi> np
<TheSheep> so, when you are chainging something
<TheSheep> you have to look at what you are doing
<TheSheep> in many cases you can just plan ahead and tell the results in advance
<TheSheep> but with user interfaces that is not possible because people are too complicated and unpredictable
<TheSheep> so you need a different way of telling whether the changes you are making are bringing the expected results
<TheSheep> so "work on improving accessibility" is a great starting point
<TheSheep> but then you need to ask yourself "how can I tell whether the accessibility has been improved?"
<ochosi> mhm
<TheSheep> because if you can't, you can't really be sure that you are improving it, and your changes may as well be worsening it or doing something entirely different
<TheSheep> now, there are several methods of telling that
<TheSheep> the simplest one is "there have been such and such issues reported, and we made changes so that the issues are not present anymore"
<TheSheep> this lets you fix obvious mistakes that have been well documented
<TheSheep> another one is "such and such percentage of people with disabilities have been using xubuntu before, but now more are moving to it"
<TheSheep> obviously this requires some kind of poll or other source of statistics and is generally slow and inaccurate
<TheSheep> but it is a kind of feedback
<TheSheep> another one is user stories -- you identify a number of things you would like people to be able to perform, then measure how well they do it, and after changes, measure how another gorup performs with them
<TheSheep> (or just try them out yourslef, if the improvements are obvious)
<TheSheep> and last way I wanted to mention are goals -- you set yourself a goal like "sending an e-mail should require no more than 3 clicks"
<TheSheep> and you verify that it was met
<TheSheep> obviously, coming up with those criterions is a lot of work
<TheSheep> and they are sometimes arbitrary -- that's ok, they at least show you that you are moving
<ochosi> k
<TheSheep> ok, so now fo the questions, I'd like to do a kind of retroactive thing
<TheSheep> and aks "what has been improved"
<TheSheep> ask
<TheSheep> for example, there was a reported issue that the theme was too dark
<TheSheep> and that issue has been resolved -- the new theme is brighter
<ochosi> hm, may i comment on what you wrote above before we continue with the "list of issues"?
<TheSheep> of course
<ochosi> k, thanks
<ochosi> so, i mostly agree with you, you can't always predict the effects of your changes
<ochosi> and i guess when moving away from Albatross (as default!, it's still shipped)
<ochosi> it was already a few accessibility questions and during the cycle of maverick those questions came up more and more
<TheSheep> do you remember those questions?
<ochosi> the direction of this move (towards more accessibility) came mostly from charlie-tca, i would say
<ochosi> the panel icons weren't visible enough and i guess a few other things
<ochosi> i guess they weren't properly written down
<TheSheep> I can write them down in the next iteration, if that helps
<ochosi> that's something you can criticize around here, that things are not always perfectly documented (but in fact you might find this in old meeting minutes, if it was mentioned there)
<TheSheep> I mean issues with themes
<TheSheep> I don't want to criticize
<ochosi> yeah, i mean themes are just a very tiny part of "accessibility"
<ochosi> well, i guess i meant to ;)
<TheSheep> ah, that's another thing
<ochosi> as in your example above: "how many clicks does it take" -> that's maybe a lot more importatnt
<TheSheep> in my experience, when you are changing a lot of things at the smae time
<TheSheep> you often can't tell which change actually brought the effect
<ochosi> but with the kind of manpower the xubuntu project has atm it's something you can't even spend time on thinking about
<ochosi> because you can't change those things in most cases
<ochosi> about changing a lot of things at the same time: i agree, but (even though it might seem differently) i didn't do that
<TheSheep> if you concentrate on one thing at a time, it often helps to pin down what was done right and what needs further improvement
<ochosi> if you compare the two themes, what i changed is (colorwise): menubar, xfwm-theme, panel-color
<ochosi> the rest are really smaller modifications
<TheSheep> especially when our resources are limited
<ochosi> i also agree on that
<TheSheep> I guess I thought I would have more concrete and helpful questions
<TheSheep> the bottom line is that I need to pay more attention
<TheSheep> do you know where most of the ui discussions are taking place?
<TheSheep> mailing list? bug tracker?
<ochosi> well, either here or in #shimmer tbh
<TheSheep> shimmer?
<ochosi> the ml is practically dead (i know it's not a nice thing to say, but it's true...)
<ochosi> and the bug tracker, hmwell, not sure that's used so much for theming issues (apart from a chromium theming bug i solved for greybird)
<ochosi> shimmer is the project i'm part of
<ochosi> i'm not really an official member of the xubuntu dev-team
<ochosi> i'm something like a freelance contributor
<TheSheep> me neither
<TheSheep> I'm not even a contributor
<ochosi> if you're interested in the development-part of what i'm doing you can a) either hang out in #shimmer or b) monitor these pages: http://wiki.knome.fi/
<ochosi> but it would be nice if you would test the theme and report issues you find
<ochosi> feel free to ping me about that (that's the way specified in the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Natty )
<TheSheep> sounds interesting
<TheSheep> the project, I mean
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> about the kind of feedback i collect for the theme:
<ochosi> for accessibility/visibility-issues i mainly rely on charlie-tca (well, or myself of course, if something is obvious)
<ochosi> he is very good at spotting those problems
<ochosi> and then of course i'd be happy to get more feedback from the community, i also had a longer discussion with thorwil
<ochosi> even though i couldn't resolve one of his suggestion (at least not yet) for "more vibrant colors" we discussed it
<ochosi> but in general i have to search for feedback, there's hardly any
<TheSheep> I will make a new install over the weekend and try to comment on specific things that I see
<TheSheep> (my workstation install is too heavily customized for that)
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> a vbox install could also work
<TheSheep> I need to fix my libvirt one day :)
<ochosi> hehe
<maciekPL> hello
<TheSheep> hi maciekPL 
<maciekPL> I`m herejust to ask about strange bug... when i was trying to change theme of xfce something crashed and now i cannot login
<TheSheep> ah, yes, one of the xfce themes is broken
<maciekPL> i managet to start graphical enviroment again as root
<TheSheep> don't do that
<maciekPL> well, I already did that :P how i can fix it so I can use normal user again?
<TheSheep> edit ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfwm4.xml
<TheSheep> for that user
<TheSheep> and either change the theme line or remove it
<maciekPL> ok, I`ll do that and tell if it helped
<maciekPL> thanks a lot ;)
<mr_pouit> (this is a xorg bug, fixed in natty btw)
<maciekPL> well, i downloaded an .iso image yesterday, installed it today and it was broken, so developers might want to know that
<maciekPL> xubuntu 10.10
<maciekPL> ok, I edited this file, let`s see if it worked ;)
<maciekPL> It worked, thank a lot! :D
<maciekPL> I hope that`s the only bug I`ll find, but now I`ve got some work to do
<maciekPL> thanks again ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-10
<ochosi> charlie-tca: ping
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i went through several iterations of resize-grip designs today and this is what i came up with: http://imagebin.org/137054
<charlie-tca> ochosi: they look fine to me. They are here to stay, so we might as well let everyone get used to them
<ochosi> i pushed it to greybird's mercurial repo now for easier testing
<ochosi> feel free to grab/test it from here: http://shimmerproject.org/hg/bluebird-colors
<ochosi> i think it's a lot more visible than the old one
<ochosi> charlie-tca: here's a link of a screenshot with the old grip: http://wiki.knome.fi/_media/shimmer:resize_murrine.png
<charlie-tca> they didn't show at all in greybird here
<ochosi> yeah, i know..
<ochosi> i also made the handle with which you can drag the line between the side-pane and the files more visible
<charlie-tca> Okay, so you want me to grab the new theme again?
<ochosi> (three lines)
<ochosi> yeah, feel free to test it and let me know what you think
<charlie-tca> okeydokey
<ochosi> it's just a proposal
<ochosi> there are other options as well
<ochosi> but it's definitely the best i could come up with tonight :)
<ochosi> (and it's xubuntu-unique)
<charlie-tca> uh-oh. is that a good thing?
<ochosi> k, gotta go to bed now, feel free to ping me about the resize-grip anytime, i'll read the backlog
<charlie-tca> Well actually, these grips are going to be a gtk3 thing, right?
<ochosi> yes, but the style is hand-painted now by me
<ochosi> i can also try and improve the default murrine style (the one you can't see currently) and we can make a comparison
<ochosi> by the way, here's a comparison i did tonight on resize-grips in different themes/engines: http://wiki.knome.fi/shimmer:get_a_grip
<charlie-tca> Is it worth the time and effor?
<ochosi> good question, i guess the main question is whether you (and everyone else) is happy with how the grip looks now
<charlie-tca> I am happy with them. We just have to watch for the ones that obscure the scroll arrow, I think
<ochosi> yeah, i think we might have to report a bug on firefox then
<ochosi> with only the vertical scrollbar the lower arrow of the scrollbar is hidden
<ochosi> with the horizontal scrollbar visible as well, it works
<charlie-tca> ouch
<ochosi> weird bug imo
<charlie-tca> I better start running in windows more, instead of maximized
<ochosi> oh, i didn't realize: the grip disappears when windows are maximized
<ochosi> that's a nice feature
<ochosi> ok, anyways, now i really gotta hit the bed
<charlie-tca> yeah, you only see them in windows
<ochosi> see you tomorrow, good night!
<charlie-tca> Thanks. I downloaded it
<ochosi> nice
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 30 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> Let's have a meeting now in #ubuntu-meeting
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, ochosi, cody-somerville, micahg, pleia2, TheSheep, j1mc 
<pleia2> oh, I have an update this time!
<pleia2> charlie-tca: ping me when you get to website? I'm at work + jono has me in another meeting too
<charlie-tca> pleia2: happy to do that
 * cody-somerville wonders why people are using wiki.knome.fi instead of the official Xubuntu wiki.
<charlie-tca> I don't know
<ochosi> cody-somerville: i discussed this with charlie-tca a few days ago, wiki.knome.fi is for development/wip stuff, xubuntu wiki is for stuff that's more official
<mr_pouit> well, one thing nice with knome's wiki is the css, and the speed
<mr_pouit> wiki.ubuntu.com sucks at both ;-)
<cody-somerville> mr_pouit, Yea. I hear you. :(
<ochosi> yep, that's also true :)
<charlie-tca> but wiki.ubuntu.com is our official wiki
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> ochosi, wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu is the team wiki and is 'official' in that sense but its perfectly fine and intended for there to be WIP/development stuff on wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/.
<cody-somerville> People can put WIP stuff anywhere they want but any development related stuff should definitely be on our official team wiki since thats where people will expect it.
<cody-somerville> If an alternative moinmoin wiki theme can be provided, I could probably persuade IS to setup wiki.xubuntu.org with it.
<ochosi> cody-somerville: i don't mind putting stuff there (apart from the concerns mr_pouit already raised), i discussed that with charlie-tca a few days ago
<charlie-tca> so, the only one to move is the publicity stuff for now, right, ochosi ?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yeah, at least that's we agreed on last time we spoke about it
<ochosi> charlie-tca: but it's not that i mind adding stuff like greybird's open issues list to the xubuntu wiki
<charlie-tca> yeah, we got that already in artwork, right?
<ochosi> yeah, at least partly mirrored
<cody-somerville> re:knome's comments, its important to note that the shimmer project isn't the only ones who are going to be working on the marketing stuff and we don't want people to have to sign up with some random wiki to be able to contribute IMHO.
<cody-somerville> As that raises the barrier to contribution and we have a hard time with turnover already, lol
<charlie-tca> noted, but we need more than just ideas on website redesign, too
<ochosi> hm, so wallpapers...
<mark76> The one with the dolphins looks like it should be in the kubuntu wallpapers folder
<charlie-tca> specs are here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/0007_Xubuntu_Natty_Wallpaper
<ochosi> tbh i don't like the submissions up to now much...
<ochosi> they are all very blue and grey
<mark76> The dragonfly one makes me think of BSD
<charlie-tca> If we pick one or two, we could have the artist change colors to see what it looks liek
<mark76> Oh sorry, it's a damselfly
<charlie-tca> or I can try again to get some different colors from the artwork community
<mark76> What goes with grey?
<Sysi-> anything?
<charlie-tca> what is this grey thing?
<ochosi> this pic is too cheesy, but i like the color-palette: http://wiki.knome.fi/_media/xubuntu:heaven_on_earth-1920x1200.jpg
<mark76> Greybird
<charlie-tca> with the grey in greybird, anything will look good
<ochosi> rather vivid, lively green and blue
<ochosi> charlie-tca: +1
<ochosi> charlie-tca: that's actually something i really like about greybird :)
 * charlie-tca has tried different colors, too
<charlie-tca> blue, red, yellow, green, white, they all look great with greybird
<ochosi> brb
<mark76> Cheetah. Too close to a certain other OS for comfort
<mark76> Swallow. That's basically what the lubuntu logo is supposed to be
<charlie-tca> windows uses a cheetah?
<mark76> Not that OS
<mark76> :p
<Sysi-> if greybird panel was any ligter, blue wallpaper made us look like kde
<charlie-tca> did kde change now? last time I looked, it only had a bottom panel
<mark76> Still does
<charlie-tca> and that had a weird layout. I couldn't find the shutdown anywhere, and finally killed the box at the power switch
<mark76> The shutdown is in the menu
<Sysi-> i hate yellow, ubuntu has purple, light green could work
<charlie-tca> mint
<mark76> Heh
<Sysi-> isn't that leaf-green?
<charlie-tca> green is green
<Sysi-> red is ubuntu satanic or RHEL
<Sysi-> multicolor?
<mark76> Orange? :D
<beardygnome> blue?
<ochosi> i'd say at least more than one color
<charlie-tca> something like http://www.flickr.com/photos/pr09studio/5277600138/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/pr09studio/5277600138/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<charlie-tca> or the balloons with some brighter yellows and oranges behind them?
<Sysi-> i'd go with lack or white as background
<Sysi-> white would be a bit different
<beardygnome> very bright though
<beardygnome> might give people eye-ache
<charlie-tca> yup
<mark76> What about off-white?
<mark76> But not grey
<charlie-tca> both all black and all white are hard on the eyes
<charlie-tca> an off-white can work very well
<Sysi-> depend on color on them too
<Sysi-> grey would work well also
<mark76> John Major
<Sysi-> sleepytiems, final exams starting tomorrow ->
<mark76> Do you really want to be the John Major of the buntus?
<ochosi> Sysi-: good luck!
<charlie-tca> I have no idea what that is
<mark76> He wsa PM of the UK after Thatcher and before Blair
<ochosi> me neither, enlighten us mark76 
<beardygnome> John Major was a UK Prime MInster
<ochosi> ah right
<mark76> Commonly known as the Grey man
<beardygnome> he was famous for being very boring
<ochosi> yeah, well i thought it was a meme i didn't know or something
<beardygnome> and wore a lot of grey
<charlie-tca> grey does not have to be boring. It can be very complimentary
<mark76> Grey and blue?
<mark76> Just like the old days
<ochosi> why not grey and green?
<beardygnome> i'm running greybird with a blue background right now and really like it
<beardygnome> grey and green is mint
<beardygnome> as in linix mint
<ochosi> sry, i meant blue and green
<mark76> My processors are overheating
<beardygnome> *linux
<mark76> Blue and green sounds good.
<beardygnome> plus the grey of greybird?
<ochosi> why not?
<beardygnome> no reason, just wanted to be clear on what you were suggesting
<ochosi> right :)
<charlie-tca> I would like to see some mixed colors, instead of just blues. blue and green, blue and green and yellow, etc
<ochosi> yeah, i agree with charlie-tca 
<beardygnome> how about the balloons wallpaper, but with coloured balloons?
<charlie-tca> I just seem to have a hard time expressing that to the artists
<charlie-tca> sure, beardygnome. that would be neat!
<mark76> Rebooting time
<charlie-tca> I will try to tell the artwork mailing list again. Maybe use the balloons as a direct expample.
<charlie-tca> hm, spelling is going downhill fast :-(
<beardygnome> good idea
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i remember that i submitted a wallpaper as example for different palettes quite a while ago
<ochosi> charlie-tca: so it's not just you they're not listening to
<charlie-tca> well, that is some consolation then. 
<ochosi> :)
<charlie-tca> baby waking up up here. I got to go take care of him :-)
<beardygnome> right, i've got to go - good luck with the artists :-)
<ochosi> i think someone even created a really nice palette from the wp i submitted, but still no luck
<ochosi> charlie-tca: okeydokey, take good care of the baby then ;)
<mark76> The weather panel applet doesn't work on 4.8
<ochosi> mark76: it has been fixed upstream and i assume the fix will land in natty too (if it hasn't yet)
<mark76> Cool
<mark76> Panel transparency is still like it was in 4.6 in the version of 4.8 I have
<ochosi> mark76: nope, 4.8 features alpha transparency
<mark76> It still makes everything invisible if you set it to 0 opacity for me
<ochosi> change the alpha value
<ochosi> there is more than one transparency setting
<mark76> I don't understand
<mark76> Ah there's an alpha slider
<mark76> Cool
<mr_pouit> yeah, uploading the new weather-plugin is on my todo list
<charlie-tca> here's hoping it works this time around
<mr_pouit> btw I talked to one lubuntu developer, and he told me that it's very likely they won't switch to lightdm (it's still a bit too buggy)
<ochosi> mkay
<ochosi> to be honest i didn't continue testing it after it started bugging like hell
<ochosi> this might be fun in a vm, but it's not so much if you have a real install
<charlie-tca> I couldn't make it work in real hardware, just in the VBox install
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-11
<j1mc> charlie-tca: the xubuntu team meeting is during my work hours on thursday, so i don't think i'll ever be able to make it.
<j1mc> thanks for 'pinging' me, though.
<charlie-tca> thanks, j1mc. No point pinging someone that if they can't make it anyway, :-)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-12
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<mark76> Morning
<mr_pouit> hey
<ochosi> hi charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Hello, ochosi 
<charlie-tca> Hey, got a report that a couple of launchers are empty in today's image
<charlie-tca> browser and something else are missing the actual launcher
<ochosi> right, i just talked to mr_pouit and he said he's in the process of uploading them
<ochosi> mr_pouit ^
 * charlie-tca too slow, again
<ochosi> nvm
<ochosi> i haven't been able to test the new launchers yet
<ochosi> but i can quickly do that later
<charlie-tca> I am downloading the 10.04.2 images to test them
<ochosi> i just wanted to ask you about the meeting minutes from this week
<ochosi> nice
<charlie-tca> I didn't get them posted yet
<ochosi> k, np
<charlie-tca> I am behind again
<ochosi> just wanted to check what my todo-items are to be sure not to miss anything
<ochosi> iirc the deadline for the UWN article is wednesday, correct?
<charlie-tca> yes, if you can do it
<ochosi> i'll try
<charlie-tca> if not, it is fine to run over
<ochosi> it'll be a bit hasty for sure, because from tomorrow till wednesday i'll be visiting my parents
<ochosi> so not really time to write it there i suppose
<charlie-tca> shoot for the end of the week then
<mr_pouit> it's already uploaded
<charlie-tca> Thank you, mr_pouit 
<mr_pouit> but maybe the current elementary icon theme in natty doesn't contain the icons
<mr_pouit> (I only use trunk from bzr, so I didn't check)
<ochosi> yeah, same here mr_pouit 
<ochosi> i haven't checked yet
<ochosi> but i think browser and email icons should be there
<ochosi> what icon-names did you use in the launchers?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: ok, thanks, i think until the end of the week it's doable (UWN)
<charlie-tca> That would be great
<ochosi> k, i'll quickly reboot to natty and check whether the launchers work and also whether the icons are there... brb
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i'm afraid it's true, something must've gone wrong, the three launchers are just empty
<ochosi> mr_pouit: no icon, nothing else
<mr_pouit> grmpf
<mr_pouit> I hate that when that happens
<ochosi> sry :)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: btw, you said you
<ochosi> 'd send another email to the ubuntu-art ml?
<ochosi> is that still the plan?
<charlie-tca> yes
<ochosi> ok
<charlie-tca> to try and get more color into the wallpapers, right?
<ochosi> yes, i'm in favor of that
<ochosi> another thought: i think that a darker wallpaper works better with the theme than one as bright as maverick's default
<ochosi> i've been testing the maverick-wp for a while and then switched back to the one from karmic and it's a lot nicer
<charlie-tca> I will suggest that, too, then. Let's see if we can get a mix of some kind
<ochosi> yep
<mr_pouit> ochosi: beh, I think this is due to the fact that I hide these .desktop from the main menu
<ochosi> it's a good idea to give them some input now, because somehow after a short period of submissions the "trail has gotten cold" a bit now..â¦
<ochosi> mr_pouit: awwh
<mr_pouit> xfce4-panel queries this menu, and cannot find these desktop files, so the launcher is empty
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I agree, ochosi. I will try to shake it up again
<ochosi> mr_pouit: so we have to find a solution to integrate those default launchers in a meaningful way
<charlie-tca> I seem pretty good at that ;-)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yep, go for it ;)
<mr_pouit> ochosi: yeah ;] (I just tried here on Debian, and they are visible, because I didn't change my menu)
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> hm, what do you think about having an entry called "Default Web Browser" and "Default Email Client" in Internet?
<ochosi> s/Internet/Network
<charlie-tca> I like that idea
<ochosi> btw, somehow the category-name Internet might even make more sense to most people than "Network"....
<ochosi> (even though i'm aware that "internet" isn't correct for what can be in that category)
<mr_pouit> ochosi: no, they are not called like that, and we can't change their name without breaking translations
<ochosi> arrr
<ochosi> so either "Web Browser" (with the "Default") or nothing?
<mr_pouit> yeah
<ochosi> not much room for ideas, hu?
<mr_pouit> that's why I hide them by default, because it's a bit redundant
<ochosi> we could also create a subcategory/menu of settings called "Default Applications"?
<ochosi> including a launcher to the default app-settings (that you'd normally call through xfce4-settinsg)
<ochosi> (i mean "Preferred Applications")
<mr_pouit> yeah, I think we can
<ochosi> btw, Preferred Applications is kinda misleading
<mr_pouit> or we put them back at the top-level menu
<ochosi> hmyeah, but i don't really like that too much
<ochosi> feels like a step back
<charlie-tca> Long as it is not going to screw people up when they change the default app
<ochosi> i tested it after the last meeting
<ochosi> charlie-tca: no, those launchers always use whatever is the exo-default
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i mean i can imagine having default browser and mail-client in the top-lvl-menu, but with file-manager and terminal the list gets a bit long imoâ¦+#
 * ochosi doesn't like his old keyboard
<mark76> What about using launchers within launchers?
<ochosi> mark76: what's that?
<mark76> You know how when you create a launcher you can add them to a sidebar in the launcher creation window
<mark76> Look. Just add a launcher to your panel and you'll see
<ochosi> mark76: we're talking about the menu
<mark76> Oh right
<ochosi> ;)
<mark76> I think the menu should have what's installed in it
<mr_pouit> ochosi: bwah, even a new category will need new translations (unless we call it like an existing desktop file, e.g. "Preferred Applications", so we can reuse translations from exo)â¦
<ochosi> mr_pouit: hm, in terms of consistency we should either stick to "preferred" in both places or switch to "default" instead completely
<ochosi> using "preferred" in xfce4-settings and "default" in the menu doesn't make any sense
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-13
<ochosi> so, does anyone apart from me mind the "preferred"?
<ochosi> because if not, then maybe we shouldn't switch to "default" :)
<mr_pouit> I don't mind, but if you do, you should also report that upstream, against garcon
<ochosi> yeah, that's true
<mr_pouit> (I already reported the "Inernet" vs. "Network" thing btw)
<ochosi> rly? you mean before today?
<mr_pouit> yeah
<ochosi> so i'd propose to go upstream and until it's fixed/changed there we stick to "preferred", what do you think, charlie-tca, mr_pouit and others?
<mr_pouit> http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3459
<mr_pouit> oops, that wasn't me but jeromeg)
<charlie-tca> sure, I can go with either
<ochosi> mr_pouit: lol
<charlie-tca> preferred kind of sounds like we like that one better, vs default which says this is our pick to start you off
<charlie-tca> If jeromeg reported it, isn't that a real old report?
<mr_pouit> yes
<ochosi> maybe we should follow up with comments then?
<mr_pouit> it was previously reported against xfdesktop, because the menu files were there at that time
<mr_pouit> (so nobody cared about that)
<charlie-tca> yes, we need to follow it up
<mr_pouit> I reassigned it to garcon recently
<charlie-tca> but the report was filed in 2007 and nothing been done yet
<mr_pouit> but Jannis receives probably too manu bugspam already
<mr_pouit> *many
<charlie-tca> Good point
<ochosi> mr_pouit: but garcon might not be the right place for the preffered apps-bug, i guess i should file it against xfce4-settings, right?
<charlie-tca> I have been working on spamming debian lately, with accessibility bugs
<ochosi> arr, s/preffered/preferred
<mr_pouit> ochosi: the desktop file is shipped by exo
<ochosi> ok, exo it is. thanks
<ochosi> mkay, submitted it (http://bugzilla.xfce.org/post_bug.cgi)
<mr_pouit> and the real url? ;>
<ochosi> arr
<ochosi> sry
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7277
<charlie-tca> That went to Nick, he usually responds, too
<ochosi> i think they all try to
<ochosi> but anyways, back to the menu
<ochosi> any other ideas apart from the submenu "Preferred Applications", putting them back in the toplevel-menu or adding them to the respective categories?
<mr_pouit> (I'll check tomorrow in a vm what really happens with a daily though)
<ochosi> k, i'll pretty much leave now, see you around charlie-tca and mr_pouit 
 * ochosi waves
 * charlie-tca nods
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<mark76> Hey charlie
<charlie-tca> Hello, mark76 
<mark76> It's quiet in here
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-06
<micahg> awesome, we're more oversized now :(
<mr_pouit> yay, my alacarte patch seems to work fine
<baizon> what was the problem? :)
<mr_pouit> not working without gnome-panel
<baizon> well done :)
<micahg> mr_pouit: so, should we seed it now?
<mr_pouit> yes, it should be fine
<micahg> mr_pouit: I was also wondering why we have Thunar po files in -default-settings
<mr_pouit> for custom actions (uca.xml)
<holstein> mr_pouit: w0w... thanks for that!
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-07
<hobgoblin> I know it's not a 'xubuntu' package - but shortcuts appear to have just stopped working in clementine - anyone else lost shortcuts at all in the last 24 hours
<micahg> ochosi: BTW, thunderbird icon issue seems fixed now :)
<knome> "seems"? :)
<knome> micahg, did you close the bug?
<knome> madnick, ?
<knome> mr_pouit, where can i follow the status of shimmer-themes being accepted/not accepted to repositories?
<mr_pouit> knome: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+queue
<knome> mr_pouit, thanks!
<knome> ochosi, how does gathering a set of wallpapers with xfce look?
<mr_pouit> knome: when you can't find it in this page anymore, it's either accepted or rejected :p
<knome> heheh, so what do i do then to know?
<mr_pouit> if it's rejected, I will receive a mail with the reasons, so you can ask me :P
<knome> ok :P
<mr_pouit> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes << and when it's accepted, you'll see a package here
<knome> righto
<mr_pouit> knome: btw, shall I add alacarte to the seeds?
<knome> mr_pouit, do we have space?
<hobgoblin> Evening - anyone using clementine or at even have it installed but not using it ;) If there is - do your keyboard shortcuts still work?
<Unit193> ^^ 12.04
<mr_pouit> knome: yes and no :P
<hobgoblin> indeed - thought this was the channel for that Unit193 :)
<knome> mr_pouit, no because... ?
<Unit193> hobgoblin: No, this is the devel channel, #ubuntu+1 is +1 support :P
<mr_pouit> I think we're oversized on desktop/amd64 and alternate/*
<knome> mr_pouit, does it look like we can fit it in for release in amd64?
<hobgoblin> wrong channel then 
<mr_pouit> knome: let's see again once we replaced murrine-themes by shimmer-themes
<knome> okay, i'd say postpone seeding until that
<ochosi> knome: well i hope we can get it into 4.10, but that doesn't mean much for precise
<ochosi> knome: so i'd say for precise that ship might've sailed
<knome> heh, so, do you have *any* wallpapers gathered?
<knome> want to try to include them?
<ochosi> no, we do
<ochosi> but we haven't finalized the selection yet
<ochosi> i think we have ~6 wps atm
<knome> aha, right
<ochosi> have to talk to stephan about it first i guess
<knome> okay
<ochosi> half are his, other half are mine
<knome> :)
<knome> btw, we're under the mainline \o/
<knome> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-xubuntu.html
<knome> i talked with iain farrell today
<knome> the guy who was leading the canonical design team
<knome> he's left canonical, but he's still running the competition to gather good looking community wallpapers to ubuntu every release
<knome> i don't know if it would make sense to collaborate with him on that too
<knome> afaik they're getting lots of submissions, and we could gather our own of them
<ochosi> yeah why not, as long as we get to decide what we want to include autocratically, that is, without public voting or something
<ochosi> i thought that was pretty annoying the last time :p
<knome> heh
<knome> why wouldn't we be able? :P
<ochosi> yay, what happened? madnick marked his stuff as done? :D
<knome> no, marked some of the menu managing stuff as postponed
<ochosi> well actually if we have working alacarte i don't see much use for writing our own stuff
<ochosi> i mean it works ok
<ochosi> and it's maintained elsewhere (or at least: was)
<knome> yeah, i agree
<ochosi> oh, while we're on that subject (items on burndown):
<ochosi> i pinged Cimi again today about the merge request
<knome> but of course, if something is lighter and works better than alarcarte...
<knome> aha, right
<ochosi> well not sure how _much_ lighter you can be, if the deps are reduced
<knome> he was loggeg in to IRC? 
<ochosi> yes, he even replied
<knome> yeah, i know
<knome> lxmenueditor too
<knome> if that's in the repos for PP
<ochosi> yeah, we don't need yet another menu-editor (in a way)
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> as long as the others don't fully fail
<ochosi> so..
<knome> heh
<ochosi> the merge request
<knome> yeap
<knome> i'm listening
<ochosi> he simply said that the merge-window closes on the 16th
<knome> ...yes
<knome> and?
<ochosi> it was a 3 word answer to my question
<knome> :D
<ochosi> that's all
<knome> ffft
<ochosi> he didn't say anything else
<knome> meh
<knome> is there ANYBODY ELSE who can do that?
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> don't think so
<ochosi> but i kinda haven't given up hope that that means he'll merge it
<knome> awwh
<ochosi> i mean he always acted as if
<ochosi> hm, anyway, i really tried to be nice about it and all, but i feel a bit annoyed/ignored
<knome> maybe i should mail him
<knome> what's the merge url
<ochosi> nah, not sure
<ochosi> that might just annoy him and not really raise our chances
<ochosi> he's aware of it, that's all i wanted to make sure of
<knome> right
<ochosi> if he doesn't merge it for precise there's _precisely_ nothing we can do about it
<knome> if that's not done more close to the freeze, i can mail him then
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> so anyway, i still have the stupid bluebird-gtk3 port ahead of me... :/
<knome> brb
<ochosi> the shortcut-keys mostly need discussion, right?
<ochosi> how come the discussion about the lightdm theme hasn't been started yet? (i mean the mockups have been out there since november or something and the theme would really look like them)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-08
<ochosi> (i think apart from bluebird those are the main two items i'll be involved in)
<knome> madnick still haven't pushed the code
<knome> huhu, stomach said TOILER
<knome> *T
<knome> had a quite hot meal @ nepalese today
<knome> so anyway
<knome> yes, shortcut keys need discussion
<knome> will you be able to attend the meeting tomorrow(today) ?
<knome> 18UTC
<ochosi> hm, most likely not, i have a meeting @work/uni
<knome> bah
<knome> what about later?
<ochosi> it's on each wednesday between 6 and 8pm
<knome> aha..
<ochosi> well after that usually drinks ;)
<knome> lol
<ochosi> i mean what i have to say about it have told you already
<knome> yup
<ochosi> i'm all for adding the app-shortcuts
<ochosi> and i don't care whether we use the super-key or ctrl-alt (or both)
<knome> want to make sure the wikipage is as finished as possible?
<ochosi> for apps it's not that important
<ochosi> although super tends to conflict less with within-app-shortcuts
<knome> and of drinks...
<ochosi> hm, we can give it a quick look
<knome> we'll most probably be at berlin in april 5-11 or so
<ochosi> aha
<ochosi> i most likely won't be there then ;)
<knome> hehe
<knome> okay ;)
<knome> if you change your mind though...
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> ok, i'll let you know then
<ochosi> but i'm rarely in berlin
<knome> cool ;)
<ochosi> once or twice a year
<knome> hah
<knome> in that case i'm REALLY rarely to berlin
<knome> will be my first time
<knome> if TXL doesn't count
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> i just spotted me and the other xfce-folks in a photo on planetubuntu
<knome> wife's been there twice iirc
<knome> really?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> knome: your wife has been on planetubuntu or @fosdem?
<knome> lol
<knome> i wish, in my naughtiest dreams
<knome> well, not really actually :D
<knome> just holidays and such
<ochosi> anyway, where is that wiki-page again....
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/DefaultShortcutKeys
<knome> well, the one thing that needs review mostly
<knome> is gmusicbrowser
<knome> super+g(mb) or super+a(udio) ?
<knome> yeah, i know m would be better, but..
<ochosi> well those things will always conflict in some way
<ochosi> i mean it doesn't even matter if you decide to use first-letters or functionality
<knome> of course
<ochosi> i'd use g
<knome> but G really?
<ochosi> a isn't intuitive or connected at all
<ochosi> a could also show the mixer ;)
<knome> but so isn't g :)
<knome> hmm.
<knome> what if that was super+1 ?
<knome> we could bind a few more to 2-9
<knome> that wouldn't be connected either, but at least it wouldn't be so "weird" either...
<knome> +2 xchat
<knome> +3 pidgin (is that installed by default?)
<ochosi> yeah, but why not use 1 for browser, 2 for mail..?
<knome> and maybe we should bind gnumeric and abiword too
<knome> don't know
<knome> that works for me too
<knome> we're not going to fit them all in the numbers though
<knome> because it kind of does not make sense we have a shortcut for gmb but not abiword
<ochosi> maybe
<ochosi> well users can decide for themselves too
<ochosi> so a for abiword then? ;)
<knome> hahah
<knome> well
<knome> i think super+W(eb) is a good idea
<knome> so is terminal, mail
<ochosi> yes
<knome> and those linked to exo
<ochosi> well yes, we can also say we start with exo-stuff
<knome> the others could be just 1-9
<knome> we should
<ochosi> k, i'm fine with that actually
<knome> because that's ideal imo
<ochosi> right, then that's settled
<knome> good
<ochosi> and i can slowly think of going to bed
<knome> this also gives users a good idea
<ochosi> yes
<knome> "hey, i can use super+1-9 for my apps"
<knome> will you update the wiki or should i
<ochosi> hopefully you can convince the others @meeting and we mr_pouit can push the changes
<ochosi> if you can, that'd be great
<knome> i can
<ochosi> i'm already brushing my teeth
<ochosi> ty :)
<knome> can i'm sure i can at the meeting too
<ochosi> yup, that's just as good
<knome> i mean, this isn't breaking the system
<knome> oh
<knome> one more thing
<knome> maybe add the fill-shortcuts for window manager
<knome> but i'll see about that
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> those are definitely useful
<knome> hmm also
<knome> we could quickly look at the order of the super+1-9 shortcuts tomorrow
<knome> huhu
<knome> super+F(iles)
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> k, i'm off, night!
<Unit193> Adios
<knome> good night!
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/DefaultShortcutKeys
<knome> done
<Unit193> Meh
<knome> meh what?
<Unit193> Well, you said window manager isn't going to really change?
<knome> mostly it stays the same
<Unit193> YES!
<knome> we're only removing move+resize
<knome> imo move is kind of eh
<knome> because you need the mouse anyway
<knome> and resize, mouse too
<Unit193> I just use Alt+click and drag anywhere on window
<knome> in addition to those, only "stick" changes
<knome> and we are introducing new three shortcuts
<knome> but two of those do not overlap with existing shortcuts
<knome> right, actually
<Unit193> In the end I'll just change to how I like it, not trying to be hard or anything
<knome> i think the grab+move key could be changes
<knome> but that's just me...
<knome> well feel free to disagree and discuss now or in the meeting
<knome> but i think this is a really delicate move
<knome> do you use those keys that changed/removed much?
<knome> if not, what's the problem :)
<Unit193> Ctrl+alt+t I use
<Unit193> Win+tab
<knome> yeah, but those aren't changes
<knome> *changed
<knome> i mean, you had to add them previously as well
<knome> and of course, upgrading doesn't break anything
<knome> this is just for new installs
<Unit193> To upgrade you reinstall ;)
<knome> i don't
<knome> but whatsoever
<knome> you needed to change some keys with the old setup
<knome> and you need to do that with new
<knome> are we making life for you considerably harder?
<knome> that's the important question :)
<Unit193> knome: Again, just was making a light comment, nothing more. Also just happy the winmgr ones are basically the same
<knome> yeah, good
<Unit193> I think a few defaults are great
<knome> i'm taking comments seriously
<knome> because if users are using the stick shortcut much, changing it can be really bad
<Unit193> I do not use it
<knome> :)
<knome> good
<knome> what about move/resize?
<knome> i'm thinking if it affects accessibility
<knome> would those be essential for people who can't use a mouse?
<Unit193> I use corners, title bar, and alt+drag
<Unit193> alt+space is the method I have used, b ut Charlie is much better to ask
<knome> ahh joy
<knome> heh right so people can access them
<knome> pleia2, hai?
<ochosi> micahg: re: thunderbird: cool! is there any way to test it in oneiric? oh, and: i have a firefox-related question
<micahg> ochosi: ppa:mozillateam/thunderbird-next
<ochosi> micahg: is there any way to pass the "content-widget" of firefox white as base color and black as foreground color? it's kinda annoying to have dark bg with dark gtk-themes on pages that don't set the bg color
<micahg> ochosi: can the firefox question wait a day, I'm trying to finish up some testing
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> sry
<ochosi> of course .)
<ochosi> micahg: i'll ask you again tomorrow
<ochosi> bbl
<micahg> ochosi: you'd be better off asking chrisccoulson actualy :)
<ochosi> k :)
<Unit193> ochosi: I have Aurora and Earlybird
<ochosi> Unit193: what'
<ochosi> Unit193: what's that?
<Unit193> Firefox and Tbird 12
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> ok
<Unit193> They're cooler ;)
<ochosi> dunno mozilla-codenames ;)
<ochosi> knome: yay! unico-stuff is merged as of today!
<ochosi> knome: do i have to do anything else than set the bug-status to "fix released" to get the workitem marked as done?
<ochosi> micahg, knome: yay for tb-devs! http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-02082012-120329pm.php
<mr_pouit> meh, gtk3 theming looks ugly in precise right now (icons with a grey background, it feels like displaying png with an alpha channel using internet explorer 5, and some colors not respected)
<mr_pouit> 13:59  seb128: diwic, it's a gtk change how theming work, Cimi has to catch up and update our themes game
<ochosi> mr_pouit: yes, i got a similar reply from Cimi about that directly
<mr_pouit> Gtk-WARNING **: Theme parsing error: gtk-widgets.css:60:16: Not using units is deprecated. Assuming 'px'.
<mr_pouit> mmh, I'll need to retest with the current git master
<mr_pouit> (but the fixed unico engine still shows ugly things with greybird)
<ochosi> well i haven't looked at what changed in unico
<ochosi> best/easiest thing would be to test it with ambiance and to see what they changed there
<ochosi> so if you could take a quick look at it with that theme, that'd be great help
<mr_pouit> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/92313122/light-themes_0.1.8.27.2_0.1.8.28.diff.gz
<mr_pouit> "Updated to work with gtk 3.3.14, requires new unico"
<ochosi> gah...
<mr_pouit> but it's probably hidden among all the changes :/
<ochosi> well ok, it's a trivial (but annoying) change
<ochosi> all unico-stuff needs units now
<ochosi> but i'm wondering why they're doing that
<ochosi> i mean they know it'll break a lot of themse
<ochosi> themes
<ochosi> and it must be unrelated to whatever gtk-changes have been going on
<ochosi> "px" can easily be appended by the engine
<mr_pouit> -.menubar.menuitem:hover,
<mr_pouit> -.menubar .menuitem *:hover {
<mr_pouit> +.menubar.menuitem:hover {
<mr_pouit> there's also that maybe?
<mr_pouit> (they changed a few things like that)
<ochosi> yeah, i might have to take a closer look later
<ochosi> i really hope this doesn't break greybird on earlier versions of unico
<ochosi> otherwise the branching-fun starts...
<pleia2> knome: you say hai at midnight:30, I was asleeping :)
<knome> pleia2, heh, right :)
<knome> i can't remember...
<astraljava> Wonder what your wife says to that, you whispering to the ears of american women at nights.
<knome> well, she always says i should have more hobbies
<knome> doesn't that count?
<pleia2> lol
<astraljava> I'm gonna bring this into her attention next week, and we'll see about that.
<knome> astraljava, i just remembered we can't accommodate you after all
<knome> ;)
<astraljava> Heheheh. :)
<knome> (just kidding)
<knome> planning a bachelor party for a friend
<astraljava> Hmm... what's this? Tom's Hardware says Canonical stops supporting Kubuntu?
<knome> yes
<knome> that's what riddell posted to the kubuntu mailing list too
<knome> well, stops *financially* supporting kubuntu :)
<astraljava> Yeah.
<astraljava> Too bad.
<knome> i don't know.
<pleia2> I'm glad all the flavors are on a level playing field now, their support of kubuntu was always kind of strange
<knome> kind of sucks, because that means xubuntu can't get financial support ever, but on the other hand, other flavors have coped too
<pleia2> they dropped support for edubuntu a while back (remember edubuntu CDs? I do!)
<knome> definitely agreed on that, pleia2 
<astraljava> Yeah well, they (KDE project) have produced some pretty outstanding bits and pieces, reaching further than just the DE.
<pleia2> apachelogger had a good post about it
<knome> pleia2, link? :)
<pleia2> a lot of the news articles have been a real kick in the face to developers other than riddell
<astraljava> knome: KVG
<pleia2> http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/how-kubuntu-did-not-change/
<knome> astraljava, hahah
<knome> astraljava, if it's true what my friend told to me, he launched that term when being a speaker in radio NRJ ;)
<astraljava> Heheh, interesting.
<knome> okay, meeting soon
<knome> so, who's here for the meeting??
<astraljava> o/
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  8 18:03:46 2012 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> anybody else, or are we going to have a quiet one?
<knome> let's wait for a few mins
<pleia2> o/
<knome> GridCube, madnick, micahg, scott-work, Unit193 ?
<knome> oh well, let's start
<knome> #topic Business carried on
<knome> #subtopic Default shortcut keys
<knome> #info there is a final specification of the default shortcut keys at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/DefaultShortcutKeys
<knome> anybody have feedback about that?
<knome> #info the specification mostly adds application shortbuts, but very slightly changes wm shortcuts too
<knome> since there's been quite a lot of time to give feedback about the older or even the newest version, i'm supposing everybody have had their word...
<knome> let's vote: yay (+1) or nay (-1) for the changes as is
<knome> #vote Default shortcut keys: changes OK?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Default shortcut keys: changes OK?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<astraljava> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from astraljava
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<knome> anybody else?
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Default shortcut keys: changes OK?
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<knome> #nick mr_pouit 
<knome> #action mr_pouit to upload new default shortcuts to xubuntu-default-settings
<meetingology> ACTION: mr_pouit to upload new default shortcuts to xubuntu-default-settings
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> #subtopic Packaging and Development
<knome> (again, please use #info on all updates)
<knome> #nick micahg 
<knome> #info mr_pouit and micahg worked on getting the Shimmer Project themes moved to shimmer-themes
<knome> #info mr_pouit fixed alacarte - it's no longer pulling in half of GNOME, and it will work with OnlyShowIn=XFCE
<knome> #info astraljava has been working on ubiquity "app sets"
<knome> i think that was it, anything else comes to mind?
<knome> #nick madnick
<knome> #action madnick to provide sources for the new lightdm and plymout theme ASAP
<meetingology> ACTION: madnick to provide sources for the new lightdm and plymout theme ASAP
<knome> #subtopic Bug Triage, Testing and Documentation
<knome> anybody?
<pleia2> it would be great to get some blog posts out there about these topics
<pleia2> I'm drafting one about testing that I'll pass along to charlie to proof
<knome> okay, great
<knome> #action pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs
<knome> we don't seem to have anybody in to summarize actions, so let's move forward
<knome> #subtopic Marketing, Artwork and Website
<knome> #info New website is released!
<pleia2> yay!
<knome> #ino Wallpaper nearly finished!
<knome> #info Wallpaper nearly finished!
<pleia2> now that it's released I have some marketing ideas I want to work on
<knome> #info pleia2 has been keeping the Twitter feed up-to-date!
<knome> sure
<pleia2> I keep getting asked about whether there are xubuntu t-shirts (and other stuff), there isn't
<pleia2> #info do we want to start a zazzle.com store?
<knome> do you think just a plain logo-model would be okay?
<pleia2> (or cafe press)
<pleia2> yes
<pleia2> just a big ole mouse on the front, maybe xubuntu.org on the back
<knome> #action pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in
<knome> that fine?
<pleia2> yep
<knome> other ideas? :)
<pleia2> #info the other idea is fliers for conferences
<pleia2> color, black and white, full sheet and 4/page handouts
<knome> #info possible webstores for t-shirts: cafepress, zazzle
<pleia2> at SCALE I found myself telling a lot of people about xubuntu when they wanted "old gnome" but not having info to give out
<knome> i can help designing those, but would we be offering the ready-to-print PDF's or what?
<pleia2> yeah, SVGs and PDFs
<knome> right
<pleia2> .
<knome> do we expect people to send them to press, or just print at home/office printer?
<pleia2> both
<pleia2> which is why we want color and B&W
<knome> right...
<pleia2> I'll probably just print out 4/page ones on blue paper with my B&W printer
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> #action pleia2 to gather content for flyers
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to gather content for flyers
<knome> #action knome to design flyers
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to design flyers
<pleia2> that's all I've got for this topic :)
<knome> righto
<knome> #action pleia2 to set up a wikipage with all ideas
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to set up a wikipage with all ideas
<knome> ;)
<knome> #subtopic General updates
<knome> i'm hungry
<knome> anybody else need to get something off their chest?
<astraljava> I'm going to sleep.
<knome> good night
<pleia2> knome: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing
<knome> ahh! :)
<pleia2> just need to move "further ideas" up to "current projects" :)
<knome> nice ;)
<knome> yep
<knome> great
<knome> #topic Other Business
<knome> #subtopic New wallpaper
<knome> #info New wallpaper draft has been available at http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/wall-9-preview.png
<knome> any feedback?
<pleia2> (I still don't like the bird)
<knome> heh, we're probably going to add a fisher and a boa too
<knome> +t
<knome> to the left side
<knome> so those who don't like birds can use the left-side
<astraljava> boa would rock
<knome> astraljava, i'm sure, especially if it's windy
<pleia2> sounds good
<knome> #vote New wallpaper: Looks OK, fine with us to upload to Xubuntu with minor changes?
<meetingology> Please vote on: New wallpaper: Looks OK, fine with us to upload to Xubuntu with minor changes?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<astraljava> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from astraljava
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<knome> anybody else?
 * knome is kind of bored with this meeting :P
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: New wallpaper: Looks OK, fine with us to upload to Xubuntu with minor changes?
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<astraljava> Heheh. :)
<knome> #action knome to finalize wallpaper
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to finalize wallpaper
<knome> #action mr_pouit to upload wallpaper to repo
<meetingology> ACTION: mr_pouit to upload wallpaper to repo
<knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
<knome> #action micahg and mr_pouit to confirm xfce package versions in precise
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg and mr_pouit to confirm xfce package versions in precise
<knome> #action ochosi to investigate some cherry-picking from xfce upstream to ubuntu
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to investigate some cherry-picking from xfce upstream to ubuntu
<knome> #subtopic Any other business
<knome> anything?
<astraljava> I've been stalling with the ubiquity part.
<astraljava> But I intend to finish it by FF.
<knome> do you expect to get it done for FF?
<knome> ok, good
<astraljava> Which probably means during the upcoming weekend.
<knome> if you can't, tell us in advance and we'll seek for exception
<astraljava> Sure.
<knome> #info we're under the mainline at burndown: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-xubuntu.html
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  8 18:31:27 2012 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-02-08-18.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-02-08-18.03.html
<knome> thanks pleia2 and astraljava 
<astraljava> Thank you!
<knome> and woot, new meetingology links
<knome> yay yay
<knome> much better
<knome> still not perfect, but better
<pleia2> thanks knome :)
<astraljava> yep, much better.
<knome> np
<knome> great to get things forward
<knome> meeting minutes up
 * pleia2 adds to UWN
<knome> thanks :)
<pleia2> aaand tweeted
<knome> sent mail to ubuntu-release
<madnick> knome: 1 day early? ;)
<knome> hah
<knome> madnick, can you please provide the sources for lightdm and plymouth to mr_pouit ?
<madnick> hm, lightdm probably, plymouth nope, plymouth atm is just a bug fix and a start for the game
<knome> can you upload what you have on the plymouth?
<madnick> i suppose
<knome> better to get those in first
<knome> then upload updates
<knome> if the game isn't ready, then it isn't
<knome> but we need the basic stuff by FF
<madnick> yup
<madnick> i acctually
<madnick> dedicated friday, saturday and sunday to work on the last bits
<knome> great :)
<knome> that's very much appreciated
<madnick> these past 2 months have been extremly hard to get *any* work done
<knome> yeah, i've noticed you've been busy
<madnick> i will create a branch on lp and upload the stuff i have atm
<knome> great
<knome> i just talked to dpm about the translations too
<knome> that's another reason why we'd like to have it ASAP :)
<madnick> yeah, acctually i am a bit confused of how to pull that off, since its not GTK, but one could probably emulate that
<olbi> hello guys :D
<olbi> I have now Edge HD3 for testing with E-450 and Radeon HD 6300, testing Xubuntu 11.10, works fine, but drivers from AMD are shits :P
<baizon> olbi: indeed :(
<baizon> got the same hardware
<olbi> :)
<olbi> but Ion is working great :D
<olbi> I wonder, why in repo 11.10 there isn't nvidia 290.xx yet ;/
<micahg> sorry,  meant to remind people I wouldn't be around
<Unit193> Seems I may have missed it too
<knome> :P
<ochosi> knome: what did i miss?
<knome> ochosi, the meeting?
<knome> ochosi, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2012-02-08
<ochosi> k, read it
<ochosi> so the kb-shortcuts are done, that's good
<knome> yeah, just need mr_pouit to push them
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> btw, the ubiquity screenshots could be done in oneiric anytime
<knome> note how delicately i was able to remind him
<ochosi> all we need is thunderbird
<ochosi> and software center (i think)
<knome> well, tb is a must
<knome> if you can take the screenshot, i can update it right away
<ochosi> i don't have tb installed here (don't use it :) )
<knome> how do i apply the fix to oneiric?
<ochosi> btw, "gather list of goodlooking wps" should be postponed imo
<ochosi> just use the ppa micahg mentioned earlier
<knome> ==postponed
<ochosi> ppa:mozillateam/thunderbird-next
<knome> right
<knome> did he say if that is stable?
<ochosi> no
<knome> okay
<ochosi> i dunno what the status of that is
<ochosi> to the worst you can downgrade
<knome> micahg, how stable is ppa:mozillateam/thunderbird-next?
<ochosi> i think we don't have enough space for the wallpapers anyway atm
<ochosi> and it'd be best if they were updated upstream
<ochosi> soo, one less thing to worry about .)
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> so mostly it's the bluebird port for me now
<knome> i'm quite amazed - @XubuntuLinux has 7 tweets, and we have 173 followers
<ochosi> i hope i can do that soon, actually i'm not too optimistic
<ochosi> ah nice
 * ochosi never used twitter
<knome> i used it for two tweets and 5 minutes
<knome> then removed my account
<knome> what about theming maybe-ubiquity?
<ochosi> don't even know what that is :)
<knome> i hear its color is not optimal
<knome> the installer
<knome> where you select if you want to install or try
<ochosi> you mean the graphical one or the startup screen?
<knome> tbh, i'm not really sure :|
<knome> but i think both
<knome> it was added for precise
<knome> so if you're thinking oneiric, you're outdated
<ochosi> aha
<ochosi> i guess that's all i'm thinking :)
<ochosi> i don't have much free space since i switched from hdd to ssd
<knome> heh
<knome> i see
 * knome gets shivers from Ã³lafur arnalds' "this place is a shelter"
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-09
<knome> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMSDPLOSHyQ
<ochosi> but i guess i need to make room for a precise vm at some point, otherwise i have to try to fix greybird-precise bugs "in the dark"
<knome> mmh, right
<knome> HA!
 * knome just fixed the 404 errors @ xubuntu.org
<knome> now to file a RT ticket..
<pleia2> \o/
<pleia2> you are the winnar
<knome> haha
<knome> thanks
 * knome bites the gold metal and breaks his teeth
<knome> OUCH
<knome> ;)
 * pleia2 passes over a beer instead
<knome> http://xubuntu.princessleia.com/i_like_beer <--
<knome> hahah...
<knome> ;)
<knome> exactly!
 * knome unmounts sshfs from pleia2's server
<pleia2> :)
<knome> meh.
 * knome might not be able to attend uds even if he wanted
<knome> not that i'm too excited to travel to states to hack on a pc
<knome> ...
<pleia2> but california is lovely
<knome> yeah, but indoors?
<pleia2> and in oakland
<pleia2> but wednesday night we're doing tourist stuff in san francisco! the nice city :)
<knome> well, we have bachelor party @ may 12
<pleia2> bring your wife, we're having an ubuntu women dinner thursday night at my place
<knome> hah :)
<knome> she's not really interested in FOSS (sorry! ;)) and not really able to come anyway (three-shift work)
<pleia2> it's a nice place for a vacation :D
<pleia2> my favorite vacation last year was as a tag-along to a networking conference my fiance went to, in Puerto Rico
<knome> heh
<knome> well, seriously
<knome> it's damn far :/
<pleia2> yeah, it is
<knome> i'd have loved to attend @ europe
<pleia2> it's nice to have it at home, but I was actually looking forward to another europe adventure
<pleia2> dunno what they're doing in the fall
 * knome is keeping fingers crossed for EU...
<knome> why not even finland!
<knome> but that's not going to happen.
<knome> :)
<pleia2> is there snow everywhere in october? :)
<knome> depends
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> you might have none, or you might have 50cm
<knome> and polar bears on the streets
<knome> and the iglu's on the suburbs
<pleia2> lol
<knome> hah, not really
<knome> the falls have been very non-snowy lately:)
<pleia2> I don't actually know what goes into a venue decision
<pleia2> seems random
<knome> but it snowed today :)
<knome> well, a big venue i suppose
<knome> and places where to accommodate lots of people
<knome> and maybe something interest to show to the sponsored guys and gals
<knome> well, we could always show those iglus
<pleia2> the brussels one was in the middle of the woods
 * knome 's iglu is very humble, but there are nicer ones
<madnick> :)
<knome> pleia2, that's something to see too...
<pleia2> and your pet polar bear!
<knome> maybe organize it in lapland
<knome> and you can be in the middle of nowhere
<pleia2> they had shuttles into the city each night so we could get drunk
<pleia2> it was nice :)
<knome> haha
<pleia2> we got very drunk
<knome> i'm sure you did
<knome> with all the belgian beer!!
<pleia2> yes!
<knome> MEH!
<madnick> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icehotel_%28Jukkasj%C3%A4rvi%29
<pleia2> I actually took the opportunity to try every lambic I could find (they still aren't hugely common here in the states, when you find them it's always raspberry)
<knome> that would work for me...
<knome> pleia2, mmh, too bad. there aren't many brands in finland either, but at least we got variety (not always just raspberry)
<pleia2> madnick: wow :)
<madnick> :P
<pleia2> those are some nice igloos!
<knome> madnick, do you know which was first, that or http://www.snowcastle.net/en/ ?
<knome> i'd say the latter
<pleia2> I blogged all my beer too: http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=2996
<pleia2> :d
<knome> what did you think of delirium tremens?
<madnick> "Existing each year between December and April, the Icehotel in the village of JukkasjÃ¤rvi, about 17 km from Kiruna, Sweden was the world's first ice hotel."
<knome> hah
<knome> okay
<knome> but the whole complex?
<knome> which was first?
<madnick> oh
<madnick> Dont know
<knome> finns or swedes?
<madnick> It doesnt say
<knome> mmh
<pleia2> knome: love delirium tremens, they have it here too, the hotel bar was pretty limited, only had things I already had
<knome> okay
<knome> that's not my fav
<knome> what bout la chouffe?
<pleia2> love la chouffe too (have it here)
<knome> oh right
<knome> you even blogged that :P
<knome> there was no mention of DT
<knome> or i just missed that...
<madnick> "the shakes"?
<knome> shakes on the plane?
<madnick> oh
<madnick> its a beer
<knome> ha
<madnick> I thought you meant the condition :P
<madnick> i figured it was a really bad bar
<knome> lol
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> delirium nocturnum is their other beer
<pleia2> nocturnum is ok
<knome> not my fav either
<knome> other of them is a bit too tangy and the other is a bit too cardboardy
 * astraljava emerges when the topic turns to beer
 * knome is not the professional beer-rater
<knome> astraljava, well of course.
<knome> astraljava, have you ever tasted a rye beer?
<astraljava> Yes I have.
<astraljava> I forget which, but I have.
<knome> okay, enjoyed?
<knome> i just bought the one by stadin panimo
<astraljava> Yeah, for sure.
<knome> a small batch in the flagship alko
 * astraljava loves rye in pretty much every form
<knome> mmh. never tried a rye beer before
<knome> pleia2, you?
<pleia2> I don't think so
<micahg> knome: it's beta, so relatively stable for a power user
<knome> i take that as a definite no ;)
<knome> micahg, okay
<knome> micahg, btw...
<knome> micahg, have you heard me complaining about some display issues when switching to an (imaps) inbox folder
<GridCube> i did not remembered today's meeting :(
<micahg> knome: not sure what you mean by switching
<knome> micahg, i mean, changing the account, or sometimes when running TB
<knome> micahg, sometimes the initial view is weird
<knome> micahg, no idea how to reproduce, but i can take a shot the next time i hit it
<knome> pleia2, so have you even tasted rye bread? :)
<pleia2> knome: not that I'm aware of
<GridCube> knome, i added my opinions to he wiki page about the default window manager shortcuts in its moment, please tell me those are not among the changes that are going to happen
<knome> pleia2, okay, so haven't :)
<knome> GridCube, the ones under "detailed specification" are what we're pushing, the ones between "obsolete/superseded" not
<GridCube> :D oh thats okay then
<GridCube> thank you very
<GridCube> much
<knome> np
<micahg> knome: screenshot might help, no idea what you mean
<knome> micahg, is there something that would make TB more closed than just closing the window?
<knome> is there some daemon or so that needs to be ran on boot, that is left open or so
<micahg> knome: no, if it doesn't close in a timely manner, that's a bug (which I think might already be known)
<knome> no, that's not it
<knome> i was just thinking because i think this might happen more when TB is opened the first time after buut
<knome> *boot
<knome> but that might be just me...
<astraljava> knome: I'm sorry, I havem
<astraljava> sorry
<knome> hm? :)
<astraljava> I haven't followed the whole of the conversation.
<knome> no problem
<astraljava> But I use TB, so can I double-check anything?
<knome> well, i'm wondering how to reproduce...
<astraljava> Ahh... the opening view is strange.
<knome> AH!
<knome> I GET IT I GET IT
<knome> IT'S HERE
<knome> THE BULL IS HERE!
<astraljava> Hahah!
<astraljava> "Where is ze bull..."
<astraljava> Oh man, this is one of those games for the Bruins... *frown*
<knome> micahg, http://temp.knome.fi/other/tb-bug-contentview.png
<knome> micahg, FAIL
 * micahg isn't sure what he's looking at
<knome> micahg, try the message area :)
<knome> and the headers area :)
<astraljava> knome: Were there some specific steps to reproduce, or is it just the full moon?
<knome> astraljava, i think, send a utf8-encoded mail as plaintext, might need to have scands in the title too
<micahg> seems like a corrupted index or something, my guess is there's probably a bug for it upstream, but not sure
<knome> well yeah, but HOW DO I FIX THIS
<knome> :P
<knome> it's pretty annoying
<knome> and yes, the most annoying part is that when you reload the message (open another and get back to the original one), it's displayed as it should
<knome> astraljava, can you repro?
<astraljava> knome: I couldn't, but I'm trying to double-check that the message actually leaves as utf-8.
<knome> astraljava, i can send you the exact same message
<knome> if you want...
<astraljava> knome: Yes please. firstname.surname@gmail.com
<knome> astraljava, i don't need your permission. sent.
<knome> meh
<knome> i sent to kapsi
<knome> but just a sec
<astraljava> Nah, I use mutt on there.
<knome> okay, done
<knome> comes from knomex@samedomain
<knome> boo google for not allowing five-letter mail accts
<astraljava> Wow. That's strange.
<knome> do you have imaps or just imap
<knome> or pop(s)
<astraljava> IMAP with SSL/TLS
<knome> okay
<astraljava> It's not showing up.
<knome> at all?
<astraljava> Haha. Marked as Junk. :)
<knome> congrats
<knome> so, when you first click the message
<knome> how does it look?
<astraljava> It looks totally correct to me.
<knome> right...
<knome> i need to do some more tests then
<knome> it's kind of delicate
<knome> but, i'm off to bed now
<knome> see you later!
<astraljava> Later.
<knome> mr_pouit?
<mr_pouit> knome: oui ?
<knome> mr_pouit, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/DefaultShortcutKeys
<knome> mr_pouit, can you update xubuntu-default-settings with those?
<mr_pouit> yeah
<knome> mr_pouit, thanks
<mr_pouit> Appfinder 
<mr_pouit> Super R (Run) 
<knome> yes?
<mr_pouit> knome: xfce4-appfinder or xfrun4?
<knome> isn't xfrun4 in alt+f2
<knome> you should ask ochosi, but i'm relatively sure it means appfinder if it reads appfinder :P
<mr_pouit> ok
<knome> and yes, that makes sense too :)
<mr_pouit> and super1/2/3/4 is a bad idea with non-english layout I'm afraid (let me test)
<knome> hmm, really?
<knome> not the numpad keys, those, of course :)
<mr_pouit> anyway, shortcuts with KP_? numbers don't work
<mr_pouit> knome: e.g. with a french layout, to write 1 you have to use <shift>&
<ochosi> mr_pouit: what version of appfinder will we have in precise?
<mr_pouit> so <super>1 won't launch gmusicbrowser, and <super><shift>& neither
<knome> mr_pouit, huh, how is it so??
<mr_pouit> ochosi: the 4.8 one
<ochosi> same as oneiric or will it include the merged version?
<ochosi> gah
<ochosi> ok, that sucks a bit
<ochosi> then probably super+r should trigger appfinder, as xfrun is already on alt+f2
<mr_pouit> yep, I did that
<ochosi> ok, ty
<ochosi> about the other xfce-components, we'll mainly be staying at 4.8, right?
<mr_pouit> knome: because 1 doesn't exist, it's a combination of other keys (just like 'E', you can't use that as a shortcut, it's <shift>e actually)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: you mean with a french layout there's no easy way to type "1"?
<mr_pouit> ochosi: yeah, I only backported things to xfce4-settings
<mr_pouit> ochosi: yeah, you have &Ã©"'(-Ã¨_Ã§Ã  in place of 1234567890
<ochosi> that is really wrong :)
<knome> yes, that's totally wrong
<knome> what if we just forget the french users?
<mr_pouit> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/KB_France.svg
<ochosi> about the xfce-cherry-picking. i wanted to ask about the xfwm-tabwin-theming patch
<mr_pouit> bah :<
<knome> or add the shortcuts for those buttons too
<knome> shift+& for gmb
<mr_pouit> ochosi: yes, and that
<knome> :X
<ochosi> phu, we will never know in what other layouts that creates conflucts
<knome> ochosi, well yeah but you know, the FRENCH
<ochosi> :)
<knome> let's just add the numbers
<knome> and tell in release notes that they might not work for all layouts
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ok, not sure there is much more to cherrypick. if we have a decent version of ristretto (anything above 0.1 should be ok) then that's all i originally intended
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i mean the merged appfinder might be nice, cause i think that should work without updating other stuff, no?
<ochosi> mr_pouit: but it depends on how much time you have, it's nothing of too much importance i guess
<knome> LOL
<knome> i typoed my vbox P machine name
<knome> "knome-preciese-vbox"
<knome> very precise indeed
<ochosi> knome: i think the "ochosi to invest cherrypicking from upstream" can be closed in the meeting-agenda
<knome> yeah, thanks
<knome> i'll just not repost it in the next meeting then
<ochosi> yup, that should be fine
<ochosi> other than that, i'm afraid we might have to postpone the bluebird-port, now that i have greybird-bugs to fix :(
<knome> i'm doing this only because this way, people don't forget their stuff
<knome> and we can remind them
<ochosi> yeah, makes sense
<knome> meh for bluebird
<ochosi> well, i'm the only one working on all of this, it's simply not enough time
<ochosi> i didn't expect having to fix greybird-bugs at all
<knome> i understand, and np :)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: what's the deadline for having the greybird-bugs fixed?
<mr_pouit> ochosi: I'll see what I can do (as xfrun4 was merged in it, it will conflict with xfce4-utils though)
<mr_pouit> ochosi: final freeze, so plenty of time
<ochosi> knome: maybe i can improve bluebird so far that it can be shipped with precise, even if it's not great. but no promises there...
<knome> ochosi, i postponed your bb work item
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ah, good to know.
<knome> ochosi, if you get it done, great, then change the status to DONE
<ochosi> knome: ok, let's do it this way. at least now the status is more accurate
<knome> exactly
<knome> and now i'm not worrying about it
<ochosi> :)
<knome> i only track the BLOCKED-TODO-INPROGESS -progress
<ochosi> problem with bluebird is: i have to apply all those fixes i have to do for greybird now to bluebird as well :(
<ochosi> which basically means rebasing it
<mr_pouit> some work is needed for the icon theme too :)
<mr_pouit> (wrt missing icons)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ah, true. mainly the category items are missing now, right?
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i mean the keyboard-icons are already in git
<mr_pouit> yeah
<knome> hmm
<knome> mr_pouit, 
<knome> when i write a message in thunderbird
<knome> xubuntu is "misspelled"
<GridCube> :P thats normal
<knome> when i check the spelling, it suggests to replace it with "Kubuntu", "Ubuntu" or "Edubuntu"
<GridCube> D: thats not
<knome> how do we add "Xubuntu" to the correctly spelled list?
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> submit a bug in aspell? :)
<knome> maybe...
<knome> bbl
<GridCube> aspell works with thunderbird? isnt it the firefox dictionary?
<astraljava> News from the release people: DO NOT UPGRADE TODAY, if you have nVidia hardware. There is an issue between the recent libc and nVidia graphics drivers.
<astraljava> More info at eleven. Err... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/929384
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 929384 in nvidia-graphics-drivers (Ubuntu) "nvidia drivers broken by the recent libc update" [High,Confirmed]
<knome> mr_pouit, so, are the shortcuts updated ? ;))
<knome> 17:58  tejaswidp: Why are lex and yacc installed by default (along with flex and bison)? Are there applications which use these programs?
<knome> mr_pouit, ^
<mr_pouit> knome: yes, I'll commit/upload when I'm home
<mr_pouit> knome: gthumb
<mr_pouit>    * Add runtime dependency (as Recommends) on bison and flex,
<mr_pouit>      needed by the webalbums plugin. They're Recommends because they
<mr_pouit>      don't harm the core functionality of the program.
<mr_pouit> I could demote them to suggests
<mr_pouit> (but someone who uses gthumb regularly should confirm that these plugins aren't that useful)
<knome> mm
<knome> apparently they are for "webalbums"
<knome> btw, is there a reason to keep seeding gthumb now that ristretto is fine?
<mr_pouit> import from cameras?
<mr_pouit> (and the plugin is for static webalbums, apparently there are different plugins for picasa, etc.)
<knome>  hmm. isn't most cameras mounted to /media ?
<ochosi> depends on what protocol they use
<ochosi> but i dunno, i mean xubuntu never supported camera-management by default
<mr_pouit> also, there's no use at all of pastebinit byd efault, really
<mr_pouit> (if we start cleaning the seeds)
<ochosi> +1 :)
<mr_pouit> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.precise/view/head:/desktop#L89
<mr_pouit> and the list of panel plugins installed by default could be cleaned/improved too (it hasn't changed for several years I think)
<mr_pouit> (probably cpugraph/systemload/netload have some feature overlap)
<ochosi> yeah, i agree on the plugins
<ochosi> i think i've asked that a few times before, but vinagre by default?
<mr_pouit> remote desktop :>
<ochosi> yeah i know
<ochosi> but really, i've _never_ used that
<ochosi> i once tried, and it didn't work
<ochosi> anyhoo, i propose we drop the mount-plugin and the free-space-checker
<ochosi> i think that's fsguard, no?
<ochosi> aasdf
<ochosi> gah, sry
<ochosi> i just tried the smartbookmark-plugin
<ochosi> that one doesn't even work
<mr_pouit> yeah, I propose to drop mailwatch and smartbookmark (too buggy)
<ochosi> so those three i
<ochosi> hm, mailwatch works ok actually
<mr_pouit> we could add xkb-plugin by default, recent versions should have improved
<ochosi> at least for my gf
<mr_pouit> ok
<ochosi> yeah, why not
<ochosi> drop: fsguard,mount,smartbookmark
<ochosi> add: xkb
<ochosi> knome: ^
<ochosi> i think that roughly makes sense
<mr_pouit> drop: places too, I think
<ochosi> yeah, it's still based on thunar-vfs, no?
<mr_pouit> no, I included a patch from upstream bugzilla
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> so it works ok again now?
<knome> imo pastebinit is ~okay
<mr_pouit> I'm not sure it's that tested/used in xubuntu, since we dropped it from the default panel layout though
<ochosi> yeah, well pastebinit is a power-user thing. no "normal" user would ever use that
<knome> ochosi, well, it helps when giving support @ #xubuntu 
<knome> "do 'pastebinit /eat/poop/you/cat'"
<ochosi> mr_pouit: mounting etc seems to work in places
<ochosi> that
<ochosi> so that's nice
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> ok for me to drop vinagre
<knome> i mean, it is clearly a power-user tool
<knome> and for the panel plugin changes: OK
<knome> going to buy some milk, quark and other stuff
<knome> including some beer :P
<ochosi> btw, parole has been unmaintained for quite a while now
<knome> awwh
<knome> i never liked it
<ochosi> i talked to the others at fosdem, no-one wants to touch it
 * knome hides
<ochosi> so we might start to think about alternatives there
<ochosi> maybe just use mplayer2? :)
<knome> urr
<knome> don't know
<knome> maybe start by writing a wikipage of the alternatives
<knome> and then doing some sort of quick comparison
<knome> and discuss that at next meeting
<ochosi> hm, maybe
<ochosi> totem totally sucks in oneiric btw
<knome> could get it changed for precise
<ochosi> the icons are completely broken
<knome> imo, most video players suck
<knome> anyawy, i'm off to the store
<knome> bbl
<ochosi> m
<nanotube> vlc
<astraljava> gmb
<ochosi> gmb doesn't play videos
<micahg> totem is staying on 3.x due to unwanted dependencies for the LTS
<micahg> err, 3.0.x
<astraljava> Oh. I just thought people were throwing three-letter acronyms up in the air.
<ochosi> micahg: is that the same version as in oneiric?
<micahg> yes
<ochosi> oh, then we're probably better off with parole as it is :)
<micahg> parole works fine for me in precise
<ochosi> yeah, it just has some serious design-issues imo
 * knome is back
<knome> somebody been testing the iso's ?
<knome> i installed precise in vbox today and maybe-ubiquity looked okay
<Unit193> Just synced up, but I hate maybe-ubiquity anyway
<knome> :P
<knome> get used to it
<knome> but is it looking okay?
<knome> somebody said it's purple, but i didn't see that
<knome> maybe that's fixed?
<Unit193> You can skip it if you set your video ram down, but IÂ´m not supposed to do that :/
<knome> hmm.
<knome> i wonder if i missed it then.
<knome> how low do you need to set the video ram?
<knome> or, how much do you need to have to get the purple?
<Unit193> 36 Seems to pick it up (IIRC)
<knome> right
 * knome checks
<knome> no, in the "Try"/"Install" -screen, i don't have any purple - is that where it should appear?
<mr_pouit> gmb 1.1.9 uploaded to precise
<knome> mr_pouit, woohoo
<micahg> quadrispro got to it first :)
<mr_pouit> (that wasn't me)
<mr_pouit> yeah
<Unit193> 36 I don{t think got it, but 50 sure did. It is a black screen
<mr_pouit> knome: new shortcuts committed to bzr (somebody can upload when there are more changes ready, or when he/she's bored)
<knome> ha :)
<knome> good
<knome> and thanks :)
 * knome has the 'bad elf' in glass
<knome> ochosi, what's the status of the new elementary-fork? it doesn't seem to be in precise yet
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-10
<mr_pouit> knome: it is (in xubuntu-icon-theme)
<Unit193> knome: Right, I speak in here. Did a few tests today, alt only working.
<ochosi> mr_pouit: you still there?
<Unit193> Hmmm... Not AFAIK https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/897786/comments/9
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 897786 in linux (Ubuntu Q-series) "Kernel is dropping non-PAE flavour" [Undecided,In progress]
<mrpouit> ochosi_: yeah, I'm here
<astralja1a> Hi there Lionel.
<mrpouit> o/
<mrpouit> is that a problem for ubuntustudio if the icon theme is in the xubuntu-icon-theme package? (it's already a dedicated binary package, it won't pull the complete xubuntu-artwork)
<mrpouit> I can move it to shimmer-themes if the 'xubuntu' in the package name bothers you :p
<astralja1a> Well, not me personally, but I would have to double-check from Scott.
<astralja1a> Unfortunately due to the DOS attack, he seems to have dropped off the face of the Earth^Wfreenode, so I don't know when he's around again.
<ochosi_> mrpouit: i know we've talked this over before, but i didn't take notes last time :( which were the missing category items?
 * knome kicks ochosi_ in the ankle
<knome> accessories, games, graphics, office
<knome> at least
<mr_pouit> yep
<mr_pouit> applications-{accessories,games,graphics,office}
<ochosi> mr_pouit: are those already the icon-names?
<ochosi> or is it something like "xfce-accessories"?
<ochosi> (i'll add them now, so you won't have to tell me again ;) )
<ochosi> mr_pouit: btw, why didn't you upload the icon-theme named "elementary-xfce" (instead of xubuntu-icon-theme)?
<mr_pouit> because the xubuntu-icon-theme package was already in the archive
<mr_pouit> I can move the icons to shimmer-themes when it's accepted into the archive
<ochosi> hmm, not sure, i wouldn't necessarily put icons and gtk-theme into one package
<mr_pouit> no, I meant: source package
<mr_pouit> the shimmer-themes source package creates two binary packages: shimmer-themes and shimmer-wallpapers
<mr_pouit> so I can add a new binary package: shimmer-icon-themes
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> let's wait what u-studio guys reply, i don't wanna bother you with unessential stuff
<mr_pouit> it'll be exactly like xubuntu-icon-theme, that's why I'm waiting on the reply yeah ;-)
<ochosi> hm, so what are the needed icon-names for the categories again?
<ochosi> xfce-* or applications-* ?
<mr_pouit> oh right, applications-* apparently
<ochosi> it's kinda confusing, gnome-icon-theme contains icons named "xfce-utilities" etc
<ochosi> i guess those aren't even used at all
<ochosi> ok, i guess then i can commit and push what i've already added
<ochosi> so i added applications-games,-graphics,-office and -utilities
<ochosi> mr_pouit: that should be it, right? ^
<mr_pouit> yup
<ochosi> humm, the icons-package doesn't yet contain a LICENSE file
<ochosi> it does contain an AUTHORS file though
<ochosi> (which already states something about the license of gnome-icons, so i guess it's unproblematic to add those four icons without further mention)
<mr_pouit> (yeah, please add a LICENSE file if possible -- it will be needed if/when I move the icons to shimmer-themes)
<mr_pouit> (but that can wait for now)
<mr_pouit> and no, I can't find any .desktop using 'xfce-*' as icon in the default install
<mr_pouit> ah, some planel plugins do
<mr_pouit> panel-plugins/mailwatch.desktop:Icon=xfce-mail
<ochosi> yes, but that's not in the categories folder
<ochosi> it's in the panel/ folder
<mr_pouit> yup
<ochosi> i added those as symlinks in elementary-xfce anyway
<mr_pouit> gut
<knome> ach so
<ochosi> woot, are we talking german now?!
<mr_pouit> huhu
<knome> nicht
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ok, i just pushed the new icons plus license-files
<ochosi> so if i'm not mistaken the icon-stuff should be sorted for precise with that
<mr_pouit> domo arigato
<ochosi> no problem, mr. roboto
<knome> np: Kraftwerk / The Robots
<mr_pouit> ochosi: ln -s applications-utilities applications-accessories =)
<ochosi> gah
<mr_pouit> GNOME and Xfce don't use the same name :<
<ochosi> that's why i asked before pushing ...
<mr_pouit> 14:09  mr_pouit: applications-{accessories,games,graphics,office}
<ochosi> we should submit a bug in xfce about that
<ochosi> ok, i see :)
<ochosi> mea cupla
<ochosi> mea cupla
<mr_pouit> yeah, I wrote it, and I didn't check that you read it :P
<ochosi> culpa
<ochosi> (damn, can't type today)
<mr_pouit> but otherwise it works fine :)
<ochosi> oh, in fact gnome have both icons
<ochosi> accessories and utilities
<ochosi> they're different
<ochosi> i think i prefer the swiss-knife to the scissors and ruler
<mr_pouit> +1
<knome> yup
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ok, done
<mr_pouit> Icon=orage_globaltime
<mr_pouit> (from orage, globaltime.desktop)
<ochosi> you mean that one is missing?
<mr_pouit> no, it's provided by orage ^_^
<ochosi> but does it look ok?
<mr_pouit> I'd prefer if it was missing (:
<ochosi> ok, i can replace it with a generic clock-icon from elementary if you like
<knome> haha
<ochosi> it's just a matter of adding symlink
<mr_pouit> I have no idea what the current icon represents :]
<ochosi> tbh in the menu it seems to be just a clock in oneiric
<mr_pouit> omg, there's some text on it, that's why I couldn't get it
<knome> haha
<ochosi> ?
<mr_pouit> http://git.xfce.org/apps/orage/plain/icons/48x48/orage_globaltime.png
<knome> hahah
<mr_pouit> ochosi: sorry, Icon=applications-education is missing too (I'm trying to display all categories to check them)
<ochosi> uargh, orage_globaltime's icon is fugly as hell
<ochosi> mr_pouit: there's no such icon in the gnome-icon theme ;)
<mr_pouit> applications-science maybe?
<ochosi> ok, why not
<mr_pouit> I don't really know why, but there are a few naming differences
<ochosi> ?
<ochosi> mr_pouit: -education done.
<mr_pouit> (accessories vs. utilities, etc.)
<ochosi> bbl
<mr_pouit> thanks
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> ttyl
<knome> see you
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-11
<vjacob> thanks for Xubuntu, everyone!
<baizon> <3
<j1mc> <3
<knome> astraljava, ubiquity?
<astraljava> Tomorrow, I haven't done anything computer-related today.
<astraljava> Are you available?
<astraljava> Tomorrow, I mean.
<astraljava> We could work out all the options and stuff in sync.
<knome> ermm, before 13UTC i am
<knome> (so before 15)
<knome> Ã³lafur arnalds
<knome> <3
<TheMouldyMarsBar> Hi
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-12
<knome> micahg, hey!
 * micahg is going to sleep :)
<knome> micahg, before that
<knome> micahg, set your freenode password as your server password :)
<knome> micahg, otherwise you'll continue to flood the channel with join-quit-join
<knome> :)
<micahg> that's weird, it shouldn't be doing it for that reason
<micahg> oh, you mean about cloaking?
<knome> yeah
<micahg> I had that set right back when I was using Pidgin
<micahg> ok, hopefully fixed
<knome> thanks :)
<knome> and good night
<astraljava> knome: Alrighty, I'm set.
<knome> sure
<astraljava> So yeah, I haven't finalized the stuff yet, but I have a good understanding of what needs to be there.
<knome> good
<astraljava> Basically, two files for each "tab" or what you want to call it, in ubiquity.
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> can they be made radiobutton, not checkboxes?
<knome> i mean, we only want to install one of those three
<knome> and one must always choose one
<astraljava> Hang on, I'll paste what edubuntu has.
<knome> sure
<astraljava> Crap, pastebinit is b0rked.
<knome> http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<astraljava> Ahh... since it's an XML file, it's not allowed.
<astraljava> http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/edubuntu-addon.ui
<knome> uhoh :)
<knome> okay.
<astraljava> So yeah, I would assume it's possible.
<astraljava> <object class="GtkCheckButton" id="ltsp_install">
<knome> i get the general idea
<knome> but that didn't answe my question
<knome> they are using checkbuttons
<astraljava> There should be the equivalent for that as a radio button.
<knome> ok
<astraljava> I'll look into that.
<knome> good
<knome> so my next concern/question
<knome> on the packaging side of things, we should have two new metapackages, right?
<knome> for each option
<astraljava> No, I don't think so.
<knome> two new "tasks" ?
<astraljava> Edubuntu has them in edubuntu-live package.
<astraljava> That package can include all tasks you want to have.
<astraljava> So I would be creating xubuntu-live, I presume.
<astraljava> Or whatever you want to call it.
<knome> okay, so we just define which packages we want to install in ubiquity
<astraljava> Yep.
<knome> ok, good
<knome> that sounds doable
<knome> what else is there to this?
<astraljava> Well, if you look at that file I uploaded, we need the pictures for them.
<knome> astraljava, look at the url i posted you earlier
<knome> astraljava, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_ubiquity/
<astraljava> Ahh... cool.
<knome> i you need something more, just ping me
<astraljava> Sure. I'll look into that, and ask questions if I need more info. Thanks!
<knome> thank YOU :)
<knome> the next thing i, or somebody else, should do is start thinking what belongs in the accessibility set
<astraljava> Nah, no worries. I'm in debt for you guys for so much, and besides, it's fun to participate and contribute to Xubuntu as well. :)
<astraljava> Right.
<knome> and if we should remove some things from xubuntu-desktop
<astraljava> Yeah.
<knome> but that's something for me to worry
<knome> the xfce set is quite straightorward
<knome> and we'll do that even if we didn't do accessibility
<knome> :)
<astraljava> Well yeah, I don't really have the grasp of what Xubuntu should be about, yet.
<knome> mm-hmm
 * knome thinks it's a bit hard to define xubuntu, because we are a "light" desktop with firefox and thunderbird, which are not so light..
<astraljava> Yeah, that's an interesting setup indeed.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-04
<knome> what do you all think of adding super+V as s shortcut for pavucontrol (v as volume)
<bluesabre> How often does that need to be opened?
<knome> since pulseaudio makes it possible, one might want to mute a single application
<bluesabre> ah, true
<bluesabre> it would be cool if they added individual volume controls to the sound indicator or something
<knome> or change the levels per speaker
<knome> or possibly access recording stuff
<davmor2> knome: do you not have a sound indicator which has a sound settings?  Personally I would link super+v to a video player/mm player that you use v for video kinda thing
<bluesabre> But, we do have the sound indicator only two clicks away
<knome> davmor2, nope
<knome> is there an exo-open for mediaplayer?
<knome> or exo wrapper or whatever that's called :)
<bluesabre> nope
<bluesabre> unless you're using it to launch a file
<bluesabre> WebBrowser, MailReader, TerminalEmulator, FileManager are the exo-open applications
<pjotr_> Hello, I have a feature request for Xubuntu.
<pjotr_> Currently, Xubuntu is being identified as Ubuntu, in the Grub menu. Which may cause confusion on a multiple boot system. Can this be changed in Xubuntu 13.04, so that Grub calls Xubuntu by it's proper name, in the Grub menu?
<pjotr_> mr_pouit: maybe you know the answer?
<pjotr_> I've filed a bug report for this, against xubuntu-default-settings: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1115271
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1115271 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu is being called Ubuntu in the Grub menu" [Undecided,New]
<pjotr_> It's a small bug of course, but even papercuts are worth repairing.... It helps making Xubuntu even better. :-)
<micahg> hrm, I have to try adjusting the precise ISO sizes agaâ
<micahg> *again
<mr_pouit> micahg: ah, we should discuss about that for raring at some point (we bump the limit or just end up with only en_US and no app on amd64 ;-)
<micahg> precise is the big problem ATM, raring I think I can fix
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit: i think bumping the ISO size for R+ is fine, but i'd like to keep precise CD sized
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit: or opt-out of more point releases for P if there's no way to keep it CD sized
<micahg> if we didn't inherit the backport kernel stuff in precise, we'd be fine
<knome> right
<knome> how much is that?
<knome> i think we might have opted-out of that too
<micahg> no, we got it
<knome> yes, but i think somebody asked me if we want it...
<micahg> I did
<micahg> I didn't do anything about it yet
<knome> right :)
<knome> no problem
<knome> actually i don't think it's too bad if it looks like we can't keep CD size
<knome> we already have a release that's CD sized, people can use that an upgrade in the worst case scenario
<knome> we should formally decide to move to a 1GB USB ISO on the next meeting, if that's what the majority of the team wants
<ochosi> +1
<knome> i think it's more realistic to have that as a goal for 14.04
<micahg> well, I think we should keep the default install useful, but minimal
<knome> yes
<knome> if ubuntu keeps adding stuff that makes us lose most of the applications, that's not good
<micahg> actually, we could create a xubuntu-full or xubuntu-minimal seed
<knome> ...and ship several ISO's ?
<micahg> depending on how we want the ISO
<ochosi> micahg: wouldn that be lots of work?
<ochosi> 't
<micahg> no, just a metapackage in the archive for experience
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> i thought 2 iso-sizes
<knome> i'm all for -minimal and -full if somebody is willing to work on it
<knome> well i thought 2 iso-sizes as well
<ochosi> yeah, we discussed minimal and full before
<knome> -desktop == -full
<knome> imo
<micahg> nah, the desktop seed will be a subset or superset of the new one
<knome> aha
<ochosi> question is whether it isn't less work to publish instructions on how to make xubuntu-minimal from ubuntu-server isos than actually pushing those isos
<knome> micahg, theoretically, how much work would two iso sizes be (if not counting the testing load)
<micahg> ochosi: well, there's always the netboot ISO, that should be used instead of server
<micahg> knome: twice the testing, not much else
<knome> right
<knome> if we get our testing working, that might be possible then
<knome> not sure if we want to do that, but good to know
<micahg> to add a meta package to the archive is easy enough
<knome> to maintain... :)
<knome> but yeah, that's what i thought
<micahg> nah, each file will be listed in one place
<micahg> s/file/package/
<ochosi> micahg: have you dealt with package-sets like edubuntu used to have them (or still has them) yet, so that users can choose in ubiquity whether they want to install -desktop or only -minimal?
<micahg> nah, maybe xnox can help with that
<micahg> I thought that required ubiquity hacking
<micahg> that also would require us to use the larger ISO size
<ochosi> why that?
<micahg> in edubuntu's case, I believe the squashfs's coexist on the image
<knome> i believe that's the case
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> then that's not really helpful for our case
<knome> we want to discuss with stgraber if we want something like that
<ochosi> yeah, but if it doesn't help the iso-size issue, i'd rather postpone it
<knome> sure
<knome> probably doesn't
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-05
<xnox> ochosi: micahg: package-sets / tasksel is in the d-i. The maximum "optional" features that ubiquity can install is drivers/3rd party software, language-packs, -updates during install.
<xnox> the rest is indeed manual ubiquity hacking.
<ochosi> xnox: ah, thanks, good to know
<len-1304> bluesabre, Catfish (in 13.04) works very nicely. When will it make it to the main repos?
<knome> most probably before release
<len-1304> knome, I just don't want to add it to our seeds and have another bug reported :)
<bluesabre> len-1304, Ideally after there's been some additional time for testing on it since its a new rewrite (and I expect regressions somewhere) :)
<knome> bluesabre, that reminds me to remind you to fix the testcases
<bluesabre> knome, oh yeah
<bluesabre> whats the link to that again :)
<micahg> feature freeze is a month away
<knome> bluesabre, the sandbox is at http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/
<knome> micahg, that should be plenty enough of time
<bluesabre> I might do the new release next week some time.  While I'm waiting for bug reports on that, I'll finish up the menu-enhanced menulibre
<bluesabre> also, glad to hear its working well in raring now
<knome> micahg, we should look at team delegation and related stuff at some point, to be able to have "xubuntu-developers"
<len-1304> bluesabre, it is much faster than the gnome search in nautilus was.... before they removed it.
<micahg> knome: you mean upload rights>
<bluesabre> excellent :D
<len-1304> As soon as you release we will add it to our seeds.
<bluesabre> len-1304, sounds great!
<knome> micahg, yes, that
<knome> micahg, and to be able to approve new members ourself
<micahg> knome: if you have someone interested, the DMB can grant it, I'm not in favor of xubuntu dev delegation right now, maybe if there were more members
<knome> micahg, i can't remember the whole discussion, but iirc, ScottK definitely thought we should have that, even if we didn't have a big team
<micahg> knome: I think it's important, I just don't think we're there yet, we have 2 devs ATM AIUI, doesn't make for much of a policy
<micahg> by all means though, if there's someone that's interested, we should train them and work on getting them upload rights
<knome> and we have bluesabre, who should be a developer with uploading rights soon or later
<knome> sooner*
<knome> well that ^
<knome> that's even in our blueprints for this cycle.
<Unit193> I'm learning a little packaging if that counts, sill a ways to go.
<knome> i've built a package once as well if that counts :P
<micahg> knome: he's never had a sponsored upload into the archive, it would be quite a while before we can grant him rights
<knome> but no, i don't want to have upload rights
<knome> micahg, let's get started. he has things he should upload
<knome> micahg, this is a long-term goal that i'd like to achieve before 14.04
<pleia2> knome: yours defintely don't count
<micahg> knome: that's achievable
<knome> pleia2, haha! it worked!
<knome> micahg, great :)
<pleia2> :)
<knome> wait, we have a meeting on thursday? huhu
<knome> :)
<knome> again not sure how my participation works
<pleia2> oh right, I should put that on the calendar
<pleia2> tha
<pleia2> r
<knome> tar? :P
<pleia2> there!
<knome> oh!
<knome> i need to talk to you about a thing
<knome> will PM
<knome> sent a mail to everybody in the xubuntu team, please read/react asap :)
<GridCube> knome, times in doodle are utc?
<knome> doesn't it say so?
<GridCube> oh... yes, sorry :)
<knome> good
<knome> GridCube, mr_pouit: cheers
<GridCube> ;)
<micahg> 21:00 seems to be the winner
 * micahg disappears
<knome> hehe, hf
<maddernick> iso sizes mmhmm
<maddernick> i dont think that many people even have cd-burners anymore
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-06
<Noskcaj> does anyone actually use the xubuntu twitter account anymore? why can't we have it tweeting daily, a similar issue affects the facebook page
<Noskcaj> does anyone actually use the xubuntu twitter account anymore? why can't we have it tweeting daily, a similar issue affects the facebook page
<pleia2> Noskcaj: because we don't have enough volunteers to maintain it daily :)
<pleia2> they were both set up to only cross-post announcements and blog posts, and then other stuff as we have time
<Noskcaj> ok
<pleia2> Noskcaj: volunteering?
<pleia2> (though we would ask to get to know you a bit more before handing over the keys to it :))
<Noskcaj> pleia2, yeah, i could try and post some stuff, at least make it seems active. i'm suggesting we make a wiki page or something where people can put a quick tps that i could post on the xubuntu twitter
<pleia2> you're welcome to mention things in here
<pleia2> knome and I both have access, so just let one of us know
<Noskcaj> ok, i'm suggesting that you link news pages and your own blogs (if it's xubuntu related) on the page, that would at least give it a volume of posts
<pleia2> we do link to news articles when we add them to the press section of the website, have any new ones to suggest?
<Noskcaj> now i actually look, there aren't many
<Noskcaj> although some stuff from http://xubuntugeek.blogspot.com.au/ couldn't hurt
<pleia2> see, I didn't even know about that site :)
<Noskcaj> ok :) xubuntu is doing a better job than most Ubuntu teams for advertising itself 
<Noskcaj> does anyone have access to the FB page though?
<pleia2> Noskcaj: thanks :) I know we can do better, and appreciate your help with this
<Noskcaj> np, maybe i will talk to phill aout lubuntu now
<Noskcaj> *about
<knome> Noskcaj, pleia2 should have access to most of the social media outlets. if not her, somebody from the team does
<knome> Noskcaj, ...or if not, we should make that happen
<pleia2> yeah, I do
<knome> was there something that was still wip? linkedin maybe?
<pleia2> I don't think so, linkedin is sorted
<knome> hmm.
<pleia2> ah, identi.ca
<knome> yeah, that
<pleia2> never did hear back from boredandblogging
<Unit193> Isn't that pretty much dead?
<Unit193> Apart from spammers, that is.
<pleia2> yeah, I won't kill myself trying to get access, figured we'd try though since it exists
<knome> Unit193, are you referring to identi.ca as whole or the xubuntu identica group?
<Unit193> As a whole, but I'll drop it.
<knome> heh
<knome> sent him !coc and !guidelines from PM.
<knome> or her.
<knome> hmm.
<knome> seems like (s)he wants us to answer questions (s)he didn't ask
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> I wish they'd just ask the question they want answered D:
<knome> yyyup.
<Unit193> Oh my goodness, not half as bad as one I had...
<Unit193> But easier to ESP it.
<pleia2> lunchtime is ending, so I'm done with this one
 * pleia2 back2work
<knome> hf
<Noskcaj> is there a reason gimp is picked as the photo editor in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap , for user friendliness i think pinta would be a better option.
<Unit193> Ehh, mono. :/
<knome> and we're not shipping gimp either.
<knome> and yes, the mono dependencies would bring too much overhead
<Unit193> We might if size goes up, no?
<knome> yup.
<Unit193> (Note, I don't care about what FSF says, I'm just not fond of mono)
<Noskcaj> also, what software center where you planning on using
<Unit193> Xubuntu has always used USC.
<Noskcaj> i know, i just hope it stays like that, LSC is terrible IMO
<Noskcaj> https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop 's milestones need updating too
<Unit193> There are features of USC that LSC doesn't have, so I don't think it's much of an option?  (I purge it either way, sooo.)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-07
<bluesabre> meeting today, right?
<pleia2> bluesabre: yeah
 * pleia2 yawns
<pleia2> anyone else about?
<bluesabre> this might be a very short meeting
<pleia2> indeed
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi?
 * smartboyhw yawns while half focusing on other things
<pleia2> I am sick and it's still dark here, not in much shape to chair
<pleia2> alright, I think we'll cancel this meeting since it's only the two of us team member wise
<pleia2> probably should have sent a reminder to the list :\
<bluesabre> alrighty
<bluesabre> I'd probably have a lot more to report next week anyway
<pleia2> knome is planning a meeting to discuss iso size early next week
<bluesabre> yeah
<smartboyhw> pleia2, just asking: How's the size?
<pleia2> smartboyhw: I don't know :)
<pleia2> you can look at the current build directory on the iso tracker
<pleia2> I'm going back to bed, it's too early here
<Unit193> Heh, the one I can make. :P
<bluesabre> lol
<Unit193> Sleep well.
<smartboyhw> pleia2, yep the amd64 ISO is oversized
<smartboyhw> by 6 MiB
<bluesabre> feel better pleia2
<smartboyhw> i386 isn't
<smartboyhw> the amd64 ISO for 12.04.2 is too, by 4 MiB.
<micahg> sorry, I wasn't able to attend and won't be able to fix the ISOs before next week
<micahg> ok, I gave the precise ISOs one more shot, mr_pouit  will probably need to do any more tweaking
<knome> yeah, sorry for not being able to attend (again)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-08
<GridCube> can we have linkable faq titles?
<GridCube> like http://xubuntu.org/news/category/faq/#8
<GridCube> Â¬Â¬
<GridCube> http://xubuntu.org/news/faq-1110-oneiric/#8
<knome> Unit193, how do we want to go with the factoid?
<Unit193> Alias?
<knome> yeah
<knome> i'll revert it
<knome> and add an alias
<Unit193> !-purelubuntu
<ubottu> purelubuntu is <alias> purelxde - added by IdleOne on 2012-05-17 03:06:20
<knome> !purexfce
<ubottu> If you want to remove all !KDE and !Gnome packages and have a default !Xubuntu system follow the instructions here Â« http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purexfce Â»
<knome> !-purexubuntu
<ubottu> purexubuntu is <alias> purexfce - added by knome on 2013-02-08 23:37:40
<Unit193> Also, I'm pretty sure installing xubuntu-desktop will get you a different setup than tasksel xubuntu-desktop, but haven't tested yet.
<Unit193> knome: Danke.
<knome> if it does, please file a bug
<knome> i don't think we want that.
<Unit193> I can't test it soon, and I don't have proof. :/
<knome> well no problem if you can't
<Unit193> Would a list of what it's about to install count?  :P
<knome> you'd have to talk with micahg or mr_pouit about that
<Unit193> Well, looks like I'm just crazy then, they do the exact same thing. :/
<knome> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-09
<GridCube> i got a mail from the qa tracker saying that there is an alternate iso to test
<smartboyhw> GridCube, 12.04 still has alternates
<GridCube> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/254/builds/37218/testcases
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> right
<GridCube> i dont see 12.04 there though
<smartboyhw> I remember testing 12.04.1 alternates for Xubuntu at the final moment before release:P
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> :)
<pleia2> knome: screenshots for site? if there is a way I can help nudge it along, please let me know :)
<knome> no.
<knome> :P
<knome> i should work on the theme to change a thing and make it configurable in the future
<knome> (and ask to install one more plugin)
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> i'll try to get it done later today
<knome> ping me again at, uh, probably 22utc ?
<knome> i need a fitpc or sth similar to have a simple homeserver for syncing
<pleia2> okies
<pleia2> btw, our friend tion_ changed his nick so he could ban evade in #ubuntu-women
<pleia2> my tolerance for him is at -10 now :)
<knome> did you miss a zero from the end?
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> my next action towards tion is ban
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> sent email to -devel
<pleia2> how are we testing encouragement-wise?
<knome> we're still working to get the testcases done on the sandbox to be able to move them to the ISO tracker
<knome> it's pending on me and bluesabre, and if you want to help us, i can get you admin access to the trackers
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> trying to gather the energy to say ok
<pleia2> :)
<knome> we definitely should get this done before B1 to make sure we don't have critical bugs
<knome> you don't have to by any means
<knome> i seriously should get that done and get bluesabre cooperating to get the details right
<knome> tweeted about the meeting
<pleia2> then we can get blog post out too
<knome> yup.
<bluesabre> I updated a little bit
<bluesabre> How specific/long-winded do I need to be with the details on that
<bluesabre> knome ^
<knome> bluesabre, anything that you think testers need
<knome> bluesabre, if they don't understand it, they won't run the tests
<bluesabre> ok, I'll review that again and get them up-to-date sometime today/tonight
<knome> great
<knome> we only have two testcases for now, right?
<knome> ...but you listed more to test
<knome> we should have one for each item
<bluesabre> yeah, I'll get those added tonight as well
<knome> ok, awesome
<bluesabre> would it be helpful to have catfish be python3 in raring?
<knome> hmm, if that's the only thing that would be in python2, then i guess yes
<knome> but i'm not confident that it is so
<knome> micahg looked at it earlier, follow up with him
<bluesabre> Sure thing
<knome> thanks
<knome> (and sorry micahg!)
<bluesabre> holy crap
<bluesabre> at some point, translators got busy with catfish
<bluesabre> last time I checked, there were 6
<bluesabre> now there are 18
<knome> heh
<knome> well that's good
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> they're not going to like that fact that several strings changed in the experimental/0.6 branch
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> alrighty, heading out.  bbl!
<knome> hf
<knome> pleia2, you around?
<Unit193> http://xubuntu.org/?p=1577&preview=true for your consideration in the upcoming meeting, additions/corrections greatly accepted.  Title needs changed, and I'm up for making it better (only thing I'm not so much for is junking the idea. ;) )
<Unit193> I figured I was supposed to ignore "Please notify the site administrator." ;)
<knome> heh
<pleia2> knome: I am supposed to remind you to do the screenshots!
<Glitchd> hello everyone
<Glitchd> got a quesiton..
<Glitchd> is anyone alive in here?
<pleia2> Glitchd: you can just ask :)
<pleia2> if someone can help, they'll respond
<knome> most of us are living dead, though
<knome> :)
<Glitchd> rightly so
<pleia2> mmmbrains
<Glitchd> wondering how to add a script to the startup so it gets executed whenever the system boots
<pleia2> I think you want the support channel at #xubuntu :)
<knome> yes, definitely :)
<pleia2> (this is the project development channel)
<knome> (with lousy jokes)
<Glitchd> i tried in there and no one ever responds
<pleia2> I don't see your question there
<pleia2> and there aren't different people here, there are just more in #xubuntu :)
<Glitchd> mmk
<Glitchd> mmk
<Glitchd> so then, no helps?
<pleia2> Glitchd: please, can you ask in #xubuntu? this really isn't the place
<pleia2> I can answer there, but people read these logs to catch up on development, not for support stuff :)
<Glitchd> pleia2, ok then
<Glitchd> ok so i asked in there and no one has said anything, about anything, even anything not pertaining to me. its jsut silent in there..
<pleia2> Glitchd: maybe your client isn't working? I'm answering
<Glitchd> right after i entered this i seen that u had responded to me
<Glitchd> lol
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-10
<bluesabre> knome: The test cases are now updated (and newer ones available).  Want to review them?
<knome> bluesabre, sure, i'll do that later today
<knome> Noskcaj, can you explain what is the reason you forwarded the mail from the lubuntu-devel list to xubuntu-devel? i'm unsure what the problem is
<Noskcaj> knome, no real problem, just some stuff to learn from, and trying to help cross-team work
<knome> Noskcaj, in that case i'm unaware what the awesome thing is to learn?
<Noskcaj> i have no idea
<knome> that makes no sense
<knome> you send a message to our list that we could learn from others, but you don't know what?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-03
<knome> bbl, see you all later
<pmjdebruijn> hey guy
<pmjdebruijn> guys*
<pmjdebruijn> I've noticed xubuntu has scroll on desktop (to switch workspace), and window rollup by scrolling on the window bar, enabled by default
<pmjdebruijn> I often do either of these accidentally when using my laptops touchpad
<pmjdebruijn> (with a mouse not so much)
<pmjdebruijn> so maybe it's a consideration to disable those by defualt?
* pratchett.freenode.net changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Daily testing with results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<slickymaster> knome: ping
<slickymaster> you around?
<knome> slickymaster, now i am
<elfy> o/ knome 
<knome> hey elfy 
<slickymaster> hey knome 
<knome> what's up?
<slickymaster> what do you think of this as a intro paragraph for the mugshot section: "If you want to personalize your personal preferences, either it's your image profile or your user details, Xubuntu has the right tool for the job.
<knome> i think it's a bit repeating :)
<knome> besides, the intro paragraph i left there was for the *whole chapter*
<knome> if that's what you're planning
<slickymaster> hmm, I misunderstood then
<slickymaster> I thought it was ment just for the mugshot section
<knome> well good to have it sorted now than later :D
<knome> nah, that would have been repeating as well ;)
<knome> basically just briefly list what the chapter is about
<slickymaster> ok, I'll rephrased then, and will write it for the all chapter
<slickymaster> oki dokie
<knome> and in this case, probably mention how customisable xubuntu is and why it's good
<knome> cheers
<slickymaster> will do
<knome> (or sth like that)
<knome> just see what the other chapters have
<slickymaster> I'm off
<slickymaster> bbl ->
<pleia2> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/xubuntu/releases/ is now complete :)
<elfy> pleia2: nice :)
<brainwash> ochosi: patch for xfdesktop to scale down the oversized png icons https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10653
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10653 in General "Desktop icons does not fit well in xubuntu" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> if this works and looks ok, we could set the default icon size in xubuntu to 36px
<brainwash> bug 1272057
<ubottu> bug 1272057 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Desktop icon size is not explicitly defined" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1272057
<knome> i'm here if any of you need me.
<pleia2> did we find a widescreen thingy for our startubuntu flier? :)
<pleia2> I need to get it off to the printer soon for scale
<knome> oh yeah
<knome> so i guess you prefer US letter?
<pleia2> I would, but if we can't make it happen I can see if I can find a stateside printer that does a4
<knome> also, is the printer ok with inkscape-exported pdf or do they need some cmyk stuff?
<knome> i can look at it in 5
<knome> it's not a no-brainer, but it should be okay with some tweaking
<pleia2> pdf is fine
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_flyer_xp/flyer_xp-to-xubuntu.png
<knome> that's the A4
<ochosi> brainwash: meh, my point was not that 36px isn't do-able iconwise, it's that it's not a standard icon size and therefore will always be blurry (even with a patch that scales it down, and in fact i think we've found a way to even do that without a patch via the icon-theme). i really don't this obsession with that icon-size though, why not set it to 32? it's not *that* much smaller
<knome> and huh, what an ugly shadow :)
<pleia2> knome: it's beautiful :)
<Unit193> Side note, likely many XP computers that can run "Ubuntu"?
<knome> who cares! :P
<pleia2> take that up with the startubuntu project
<pleia2> I just told them we'd come up with a Xubuntu version
<knome> pleia2, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_flyer_xp/flyer_xp-to-xubuntu_letter.png
<pleia2> knome: ++
<knome> i'll export those to pdf soonish
<pleia2> knome: licensing footer?
<knome> yeah, meh
<knome> what info do we need to keep there?
<knome> and can it be a semi/metafooter, at the right bottom instead of bottom of all
<pleia2> let's see...
<pleia2> I'd keep cc-by-sa and note that the source can be found on spreadubuntu.org
<pleia2> drop everything else
<knome> goodie
<knome> sensible pleia2++
<pleia2> :)
<knome> do we need to attribute the original author?
<knome> it's -by-
<pleia2> so spreadubuntu.org will eventually get people to figure out some attribution history, but I probably should ask him :\
<pleia2> do it without, we'll readd (or reassess...) if he insists
<knome> well, as i said, technically, it's not a derivative
<pleia2> as an artist, I imagine saying such a thing makes you wince :)
<knome> hehe, sure ;)
<pleia2> I'm sure he'll be ok with it, as there are lots of authors at this point and it's not sensible to list everyone
<pleia2> him, me, you, screenshot creator..
<knome> i don't mind attributing him, but then i feel like i should attribute myself as well/instead...
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> (c) Authors :P
<pleia2> when we upload to spreadubuntu we can list the authors, I think there is a comment section or something
<knome> i have *no* idea
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> there is something
<Unit193> if screenshot creator = me;then license it BSD-3-clause, relicense it to whatever, pretend you took it, I don't care. :P
<knome> haha
<knome> along the lines of how i think i need to be attributed...
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-04
<brainwash> ochosi: 32px seems a bit too small for the average user, but I don't care about the actual value (32, 36 or 48)
<pleia2> http://adoptedsidekick.wordpress.com/2014/01/30/gee-that-didnt-work-out-very-well/
<pleia2> ^^ worth a read, new tester
<pleia2> (of course the thing failed, oops, but not the point!)
<brainwash> ochosi: just want to make sure, that the icon size stays the same after open the desktop settings dialog for the first time. currently the size gets changed from 36 to 32
<ochosi> brainwash: right, but is the 36px a value that we set actively in our settings? if not, can't we simply explicitely set it to a sane value and solve the problem that way?
<brainwash> ochosi: I don't why it is set to 36, xfdesktop should actually use 32 like defined in the source code
<ochosi> maybe it helps if we set it to 32px explicitely via xfconf
<ochosi> have you tested that yet?
<brainwash> via the global config file for xfdesktop?
<brainwash> this works, see my MR
<ochosi> .config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-desktop.xml is what i meant
<ochosi> so yeah
<ochosi> where is your MR?
<brainwash> bug 1272057
<ubottu> bug 1272057 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Desktop icon size is not explicitly defined" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1272057
<knome> pleia2, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_flyer_xp/flyer_xp-to-xubuntu_letter.png
<pleia2> knome: \o/
 * knome tickles pleia2 
<pleia2> knome: I'll share this img with Pierre and confirm he's good with it
 * pleia2 giggles
<ochosi> brainwash: oh sorry, yeah, that one. well i'm all for just setting it to 32 and being done with it
<brainwash> sure
<ochosi> brainwash: thing is, while we can ponder about this issue for quite a while, for now, there seem to be more important things to be done
<ochosi> i'm really the last to argue against polishing in general...
<ochosi> but an upstream patch might take a while to trickle down
<ochosi> and we have more important stuff we need packaged/released, like the gtk3 indicators
<pleia2> knome: once I hear back, we can upload all to spreadubuntu and I will print them, hopefully tomorrow, he's been quick about emailing
<brainwash> this report is not about the icon size, it's about making sure that is does not change when the user opens the dialog initially
<knome> pleia2, sure. don't know how i'm around tomorrow (but i am)
<pleia2> knome magic
<ochosi> brainwash: i know. but i don't see any other bug there atm
<knome> pleia2, ;)
<brainwash> ochosi: that's another story/bug report :D
<pleia2> brainwash: we're calling the new openstack bug tracker storyboard :)
<brainwash> storyboard for testers who test and realize that it didn't work out very well
<knome> pleia2, err, license master
<pleia2> knome: hm?
<knome> pleia2, i'm using open sans for the flyer. it's apache licensed.
<knome> problem?
<ochosi> knome: and open sans is a really nice font
<pleia2> knome: heh, let's just mention it in the comments along with the authors
<knome> pleia2, good.
<knome> pleia2, sending you the files
<pleia2> \o/
<knome> pleia2, you should have them
<pleia2> yup, thanks
<knome> i accidentlly typed "time" first, then giggled
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> shall I upload them to spreadubuntu once we get the attribution green light?
<knome> "as if..."
<knome> yes, that's why i sent them to you, if you happen to be around and me not...
<knome> (and if it requires a non-SSO login)
<pleia2> okie
<knome> i was thinking when brushing teeth...
<knome> a simple GUI that allows users to format anything not on fstab to "linux only" (ext-something) or "all operating systems" (fat32)
<holstein> interesting
<knome> but that would need some light libs to go with it
<knome> who'll write it? don't know. would it be ready for 14.04? could barely have the time to get it in, but doubt it.
<knome> would i be interested in including it? why not
<holstein> wouldnt hurt anything
<knome> yep
<knome> but it would definitely need quite a lot of testing
<holstein> i dont see it for 14.04 in any way
<holstein> LTS and all...
<knome> well it would need to land before the feature freeze
<knome> if it did, there was a slim chance
<holstein> is there not something upstream?
<holstein> only gparted to format?
<knome> well, if nautilus has that...
<holstein> i havent checked in a long tim
<holstein> time*
<knome> i guess people either use nautilus to do it, or are comfortable to install a specific tool for it
<holstein> yeah, its just a non-issue, as i see it
<knome> pretty much
<holstein> if you are savvy enough to want to format a stick, you know how to do it
<knome> but i can see the point
<holstein> yup
<holstein> let me see if my 14.04 ubuntu boots, and i can check there..
<knome> :)
<holstein> knome: nope
<holstein> not in files/nautilus that i saw
<knome> okay
<knome> maybe a custom action
<knome> well, you can add those for thunar as well
<knome> but you'd need the command/script to run anyway
<knome> /app
<knome> ok, off to bed
<knome> see you later
<pleia2> http://spreadubuntu.org/en/material/poster/startubuntu-xubuntu-flyer-us-letter
<pleia2> http://spreadubuntu.org/en/material/poster/startubuntu-xubuntu-flyer-a4
<pleia2> it is done
<pleia2> and ordered paper copies, should get here in 11 days or so, and then I will intarweblag about it
<christoffer> Anyone here that knows what's keeping Firefox 26 in proposed for Trusty?
<Unit193> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html says it's outo of date on PPC.
<christoffer> Unit193, thanks for that link. Didn't know about it.
<Unit193> Sure, there's some hidden useful links.
<elfy> o/ ali1234 
<Unit193> We planning on doing a community artwork selection each release? (AKA, how do we want to version it?)  Still no traslasierra?
<knome> ochosi speaks as if we would
<Unit193> 14.04.0 it is.
<Unit193> (What I've been using.)
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, still waiting for traslasierra and bubbles
<ochosi> i think we can theoretically do it for every release, otoh who knows whether we'll get good submissions that way
<ochosi> but yeah, versioning it related to the release they were submitted for sounds like a good idea
<ochosi> knome: what was the status on adding a new dev-subteam that can merge into our branches?
<knome> ochosi, we will turn -dev into that "subteam" and remove the upload rights from that team
<knome> ochosi, if we need to have a team with upload rights, DMB can set up one for us later, like -dev-upload
<ochosi> sounds good
<knome> ochosi, ask micah, he's on it
<ochosi> individuals will still be able to upload anyway, right?
<knome> heh, well as their other team memberships allow them to
<brainwash> ochosi: patch for xfdekstop 4.11 works, now all icons are scaled properly
<brainwash> the main issue with 32px is that greybird also makes the font bold
<Unit193> knome: Yeah, fun part figuring out who the pushers are. :P
<brainwash> ochosi: so we get "small" desktop icons with a bold text
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, but i already explained why the font is bold in greybird
<brainwash> I still know the reason :P
<knome> Unit193, what do you mean?
<brainwash> ochosi: so we should wait for the patch to land in trusty
<brainwash> and then decide which desktop icon size to use (32 default, 36 currently by mistake or 48 like thunar does)
<ochosi> brainwash: so you're confident that this patch will make it to trusty in time?
<ochosi> point being: i don't see why we have to wait for that patch to decide what desktop icon size to use
<brainwash> without the patch 36px is not a valid option :D
<knome> seriously
<knome> 36 is not even a standard icon size
<knome> brainwash, let go of your nonsense thought that 36 is perfect and all others are invalid :P
<brainwash> 36 is not perfect, just a bit better than 32
<brainwash> personally I would vote for 48
<knome> i think we're pixel pushing, it's stupid to wait for a patch (which might have other regressions) to make something 4px larger (or smaller) and that ochosi has the last vote anyway
<brainwash> yes, the thing is that 36px is currently used until the user opens the desktop settings dialog for the first time
<brainwash> and no one complained about 36
<knome> maybe we should reassess that
<knome> ochosi, what do you think of 32?
<ochosi> i'm fine with 32px, i think it's big enough
<ochosi> with 48px the grid in xfdesktop becomes very large
<ochosi> so lots of spacing in between the icons
<ochosi> icons/items
<brainwash> ok, can you merge the change?
<brainwash> or do I need to change my branch?
<brainwash> 32
<ochosi> actually i can't merge the branch, cause currently only ppl in xubuntu-dev can push to certain branches
<ochosi> and since i have no upload rights, i'm not in xubuntu-dev
<ochosi> this will hopefully be resolved soon, anyway, if you file a new merge-request with 32px (or update the current one) i can formally approve it and micahg or someone else will merge it
<brainwash_> there are a few pending changes for xubuntu-default-settings
<knome> yes
<slickymaster> afternoon all
<slickymaster> knome: you around?
<knome> slickymaster, pong
<slickymaster> hey knome 
<slickymaster> what do you think?
<slickymaster> new version: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6873264/
<slickymaster> is it merge material?
<knome> slickymaster, i'll have to check that later
<slickymaster> ok, I'll wait on your feedback. anyway, I'm unable to push to LP, at awork
<knome> oki
<schproodle> attempting to run test suites on trusty daily. Are the iso images specifice to a test suite?
<schproodle> Attempting to test trust daily.
<elfy> nope - the same tests get run on whatever the daily is
<schproodle> Thanks.  I am using the testdrive and virtual box but I don't understand how to do anything other than "install (entire drive).
<elfy> the only time it is different is milestones - eg Alpha's and Beta's
<elfy> in a virtual machine unless you make the virtual space big enough you'd not be able to anyway
<schproodle> OK then perhaps test an installation on a usb drive?
<elfy> schproodle: if you want to - just be really careful about where you install grub
<elfy> schproodle: to be frank - unless you've a reason to use testdrive the best way is to manually use vbox
<schproodle> What other way could I do the test suites for daily trusty?
<elfy> I test with vbox mostly and a unused machine
<elfy> and milestones I'll do it with this machine as well
<elfy> if you canonly do install to whole drive in testdrive - then you do that - and I'll thank you for doing that :)
<schproodle> Done. You are welcome.  I can install another computer I suppose.  I guess that is the safest way?
<elfy> don't forget to report it :)
<schproodle> Done.
<elfy> thanks :)
<schproodle> testdrive did seem a bit cranky eh :(
<elfy> I've never used it tbh
<schproodle> Not sure how to be careful about "where you install grub"
<elfy> on the partitioning page you can set where you install grub - I always install test installs to their own partition - rather than sda
<elfy> then I know that I can boot successfully - just means you have to add a step to be able to boot it
<schproodle> If I install trusty daily on any other drive, I must be careful about where grub is installed.  I understand that I believe.  I have an hdd I could add to my machine. I will try to install 13.10 to that as sdb while keeping grub on my existing sysem on sda.  Is that about right?
<schproodle> The extra step being selecting it in grub boot menu, right?
<elfy> the extra step being booting to the normal one and updating grub to see the new one
<elfy> and yea - ^^ that's about right :)
<schproodle> Yes, I understand that in principle eh ;).  I have screwed that up before :) however. 
<elfy> schproodle: you and me both
<elfy> if I'm about I'm happy enough to ack what you're doing
<schproodle> I am beginning to see how the extra machine looks very inviting for testing purposes.
<elfy> it can help 
<elfy> depends how much you do :)
<schproodle> Slow I suppose to using virtualbox skillfully.
<schproodle> That is, compared to  using virtualbox skillfully.
<elfy> I do find vbox useful - I've got half a dozen 1404's init 
<schproodle> I have vbox running trusty.  How would I install trusty over that on vbox?
<schproodle> No testdrive involved eh.
<elfy> to install over the top of it?
<schproodle> to replace it with new daily trusty for testing for example
<elfy> point the vmachine at the daily iso and it will boot with it
<schproodle> erase it and install new trusty?
<elfy> that's what it would do that way - yes
<schproodle> wants to know if I want to force mounting of this medium trusty...iso -- button for Force Unmount selecte
<elfy> I don't understand that
<schproodle> I want to try to install a new trusty on the vbox trusty right -- erase the  old installation and replace it with a new.
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/290942
<elfy> you need to point the cd drive at the iso 
<schproodle> pointed -- now what please?
<schproodle> just "OK" ??
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> then check system boot order - make sure cd is above hard disk and it should boot the image
<elfy> then you can use install to whole drive and it will overwrite the existing vbox install
<schproodle> looking for system boot order for checking...
<elfy> settings - system
<sergio-br2> hey hello
<sergio-br2> hey ochosi
<schproodle> yep, I am getting the hang of it -- thanks
<elfy> schproodle: cool
<schproodle> looks like a fail: Upgrade to...LTS is checked instead of Erase trusty and reinstall -- testcase explected it to chech erase I believe eh.
<ochosi> hey sergio-br2 
<schproodle> Or is the option to Erase...reinstall merely presented good enough?
<elfy> schproodle: I don't know enough about how your setup to comment 
<schproodle> trying to test trusty testcase for erase and install.
<elfy> oic - never mind - I think that's the default setting for it
<elfy> so it would default to upgrade the current - just choose reinstall 
<schproodle> Seems not to detect time/zone again...
<schproodle> ...installing...gotta run.  Thanks again Mr elfy. :)
<elfy> welcome
<sergio-br2> ochosi, i ended the revision, now i will try to add more icons in places/96, at least the similar folders icons.
<ochosi> sergio-br2: ok, great!
<sergio-br2> i did many pull request, don't know if it is better for you.
<sergio-br2> and apps/96, apps/128, categories and mimes... they are lot of work. I don't know when i will finish this.
<sergio-br2> mainly mimes...
<schproodle> elfy, it worked eh  -- installed the new trusty and booted up. :o
<elfy> nice one - once you've done it - easier than other methods imo
<schproodle> nice work! l8r
<elfy> cya - and thanks again :)
<ochosi> sergio-br2: indeed, many pull requests :) all of them are still valid i presume?
<sergio-br2> yeah, but places i will put some stuff yet
<sergio-br2> *places96
<sergio-br2> hum, you did the merge, ok
<ochosi> yeah, you can always do another merge-request when you got more
<elfy> seems to be lots of new people floating about doing stuff 
<sergio-br2> ok, no problem
<slickymaster> elfy: it's like they say, the more the merrier (as long as it's quality stuff)
<elfy> yep
<slickymaster> gotta go. bbl ->
<pleia2> Serbian: http://zeljko.popivoda.com/startubuntu-xubuntu-flyer-na-srpskom/
<pleia2> Portuguese: http://ubuntuone.com/4i79t6ulGgBAnxf3NGrfiS
<pleia2> knome: ^^ :D
<pleia2> I should update our marketing materials page, will make a bug and do it later
<SuperSumo> I don't know how to file bugs, but I found one in 14.04 alpha. I have my laptop hooked up to an external monitor and turn off the laptop screen while using it by choosing to only render to the monitor via the xbuntu control panel. If I right-click on an image in a folder somewhere and select "set as wallpaper" it doesn't set it. I have to go through the control panel to change my desktop's wallpaper every time. :(
<SuperSumo> It's in 14.04 alpha2
<jackson__> SuperSumo, I think it's a know issue.
<jackson__> You can report bugs by running "ubuntu-bug PACKAGE" from a terminal
<SuperSumo> ok, cool. I did a search on launchpad but couldn't find anything
<SuperSumo> What package would that be in?
<SuperSumo> I'm only <1 year of using linux fulltime
<jackson__> thunar, probably.
<SuperSumo> I have a general question. I'm working on my graduate project and am trying to use an NVidia Optimus setup. My laptop is a brand new high-end one, which requires drivers 319+ to work. My network card requires a newer kernel to work properly. So, I was going to use 14.04 as they have nvidia prime and a kernel version which will support my network card. I was looking through launchpad discussions on nvidia-prime and looks like 
<SuperSumo> ...few days. Would those patches be reflected in the daily ISO builds? Would I be able to get them through the proposed PPA? Thanks.
<jackson__> SuperSumo, Try trusty first. If that's not enough, use a PPA rather than ubuntu-proposed, which will randomly break your PC
<SuperSumo> ok, thanks Jackson
<ochosi> sergio-br2: if i may ask, what's up with the tiny changes in the existing camera icons? https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/pull/26/files
<ochosi> (e.g. the 48px version)
<ochosi> sergio-br2: another note: don't make merge-requests depend on each other, i.e. if i merge apps128 but not another merge-request, i'll end up with broken symlinks.
<ochosi> sergio-br2: other than that, great work!
<sergio-br2> hum, ok
<sergio-br2> forget about symlinks... sorry :)
<sergio-br2> ochosi, the difference in camera 48 px is that the button and other detail is behind a drawing. Just it. I moved it to the front
<ochosi> oh, right
<ochosi> hadn't noticed that
<ochosi> why did you drop the 22px inkscape app-icon?
<sergio-br2> is it used anywhere?
<sergio-br2> in the last pull request, i add this to apps/22. But after, i realized that it is not used, i think
<ochosi> theoretically yes, e.g. if whiskermenu is set to use 22px icons
<sergio-br2> yeah, but i think it use 16 and after 24, or not?
<ochosi> indeed, but it could still be used somewhere
<ochosi> e.g. if the windowlist is set to display no labels, the icons can be practically any size
<ochosi> so it doesn't hurt to keep it around
<ochosi> (windowlist in the panel)
<ochosi> hm, what's the change in actions/64/document-properties?
<sergio-br2> hard questions... :)
<sergio-br2> let me see
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> well, i want you to know that i *do* review the stuff you do ;)
<sergio-br2> hehe
<ochosi> btw, since you once asked, this is the reason i never merged that open request: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-04-232147.php
<ochosi> (hint: fuzzy icons, all of them...)
<slickymaster> night all
<slickymaster> knome, you around?
<sergio-br2> ochosi, this document-properties, i don't know what is this change
<schproodle> I am working with Testing Tracker: trusty daily xubujtu.  How do I know when ther is a fresh daily to test?
<sergio-br2> ochosi, i will revert this. Probably a mistake
<ochosi> sergio-br2: ok thanks, if you can update that merge-request i can merge it in
<ochosi> (currently we have a few borked symlinks in apps/32 without it)
<slickymaster> schproodle, http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds
<schproodle> slickymaster, Yes, I had seen that.  Now I see the version is actually a date.  :)  Thanks
<ochosi> sergio-br2: gotta go, i can do the merge when i'm back tomorrow
<sergio-br2> ahh, ochosi, i found the change
<ochosi> oh
<slickymaster> schproodle, nnp
<ochosi> sergio-br2: so, what's the change? :)
<sergio-br2> the icon was too above (too up), then i pick it 2 px to down
<sergio-br2> it was not 
<sergio-br2> symmetric
<ochosi> ah
<knome> slickymaster, i'm here now
<slickymaster> knome, something come up and I'll be unable to make tomorrow's meeting at 19, can it be postponed to 22 UTC?
<ochosi> sergio-br2: mkay, looks fine then. merged
<knome> jjfrv8, you around?
<knome> slickymaster, that might or might not work for me, but i'm not critical for that meeting
<ochosi> sergio-br2: pro-tip: do changes like these in single commits and note the changes. easier to re-connect the dots then later ;)
<slickymaster> yes, it will have to arranged with jjfrv8 
<slickymaster> be ^^
<sergio-br2> yeah
<ochosi> sergio-br2: note the changes == in the commit message
<sergio-br2> i'm learning git yet :)
<ochosi> sergio-br2: okeydokey, well done all in all!
<ochosi> :)
<sergio-br2> thanks
<ochosi> well, thank you
<ochosi> night everyone
<knome> night ochosi 
<sergio-br2> night
<slickymaster> on a different subject, I've made a small correction to the Mugshot section, knome: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6875721/
<slickymaster> do you think I can go ahead and make a MP?
<knome> slickymaster, i'll get to you on that in 4
<knome> err, 5, but 4 works as well
<slickymaster> okie
<knome> slickymaster, http://pad.ubuntu.com/2FP2NBw6El
<slickymaster> I see, you prefer a colloquial approach on that paragraph
<slickymaster> I can't say I disagree with you
<knome> i thought it again, and i think i was a bit unclear/wrong the last time
<knome> we're not trying to sell xubuntu, the user is already running it...
<slickymaster> yeah, and I do tend to fall in a sort of marketing speech
<slickymaster> that's something I'm going to have to correct :P
<knome> heh, you should write the website pages then ;)
<slickymaster> so, I'll replace my paragraph with yours and push a MP
<slickymaster> ah ah, no I have to start on the MenuLibre documentation
<knome> hehe, sure ;)
<slickymaster> so, are you ok with MP idea?
<knome> was there something else you changed in the file?
<knome> or was it basically the stuff i already ack'd?
<knome> yeah, i think it's good
<slickymaster> I haven't changed nothing besides that opening paragraph
<knome> just do a MP, and i'll merge
<slickymaster> ok, will do it right away
<knome> humpf, Unit193 ?
<Unit193> knome: What?
<knome> Unit193, why no xubuntu-docs 12.04.1 in precise :|
<knome> Unit193, or, how do i check what the process has been?
<knome> i thought i ran all the updates from -proposed already for my wife's laptop, but i didn't see the fixed startpage looks
<Unit193> Not been uploaded.
<knome> ok, so should i poke seb128, since he said a week a go "...and sponsored the change" ?
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs
<knome> hmpf.
<slickymaster> knome, https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/204803
<knome> cheers, i'll get it once i've read a backlog for a channel
<slickymaster> oki dokie
<schproodle> I am working with Testing Tracker: trusty daily xubuntu.  I generated a pastebin link but I don't know how to get the info into the "machine" column for testcase reports.
<schproodle> that is, computer's specifications, for testing and bug reporting.
<slickymaster> schproodle, the data of that column is obtained from here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware
<slickymaster> schproodle, just read the instructions and run the script there
<schproodle> Will do.
<slickymaster> schproodle,  here's the howto: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware#PROCEDURE
<schproodle> Yes, I have read all that and generated a hardware detection pastebin link.  I still don't have clue.  Must I edit the wike somehow?
<slickymaster> schproodle, the only editing you have to is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware#PERMANENT_PASTEBIN_LINK_STORAGE
<schproodle> (Do not edit this area. Admin only.)
<slickymaster> schproodle, yeah, I see. It usen't to be . Apparently now the editable table is the one on top of that. That's the one you have to edit
<slickymaster> schproodle, if you need any help on editing, just ping me
<knome> slickymaster, merged.
<knome> slickymaster, want to learn something?
<slickymaster> of course. leaving and learning
<knome> slickymaster, goodie.
<knome> slickymaster, in the docs branch root, type 'dch -e'
<knome> voila, the changelog
<Unit193> (Need devscripts.)
<knome> in the future, feel free to mark improvements there
<knome> right, that's true
<slickymaster> wait a sec, first I have to install dch :P
<knome> i always expect everybody to have done sudo apt-get install *
<slickymaster> on a need to basis
<knome> so yeah, install devscripts and then do that :P
<slickymaster> already browsing
<schproodle> slickymaster, edited: [[http://pastebin.com/VJSa0ajn | Specification || schproodle ||
<knome> it's not too much headache for me, but i forget it now and then
<schproodle> ==== TEMPORARY TABLE - edit this ====
<slickymaster> schproodle, hmm I'm not seeing it there
 * knome just went an fixed broken stuff in the table.
<slickymaster> knome,  the changelog isn't showing any of the last changes made. Is it just supposed to happen after a release?
<schproodle> slickymaster, I had not saved it.  Afraid to mess it up eh.  OK saved.
<knome> slickymaster, should be done based on commits.
<slickymaster> I see
<knome> slickymaster, if you pull the latest revision from main, you'll notice i mentioned the mugshot section
<slickymaster> schproodle, according to the changelog the last edit made to the page was knome's  (last edited 2014-02-04 23:39:03 by knome)
<slickymaster> schproodle, yours might haven't been saved
<slickymaster> knome,  going to pull it now
<schproodle> slickymaster, ---- /!\ '''Edit conflict - other version:''' ---
<slickymaster> just a question knome, when you say "... feel free to mark improvements there" are you referring to something similar to the commit message in bzr?
<schproodle> slickymaster, I tried to emulate other entries but they are quite different -- don't have a clue here.
<knome> slickymaster, yep, to describe the changes that have been done. i wouldn't mark every single typo fix separately, but bigger things are worth mentioning
<slickymaster> got it
<knome> schproodle, || Make || Model || Type || [[http://pastebin.com/VJSa0ajn|Specification]] | schproodle ]]
<knome> schproodle, edit Make/Model/Type in that line
<knome> wait
<knome> schproodle, || Make || Model || Type || [[http://pastebin.com/VJSa0ajn|Specification]] | schproodle ]] ||
<knome> in *that* line :)
<slickymaster> yes :)
<slickymaster> btw knome, in the xubuntu-t-docs blueprint you mentioned about looking at Ubuntu Manual to see if we can re-use some material on our documentation
<slickymaster> I'm also on the manual team as editor. what do you have in mind?
<knome> can't remember who first added that, maybe skellat
<slickymaster> oh
<knome> i think it's worth seeing if we could port some of it for the xubuntu docs
<slickymaster> we could discuss it with godbyk
<knome> it's not #1, or even #2, on the list
<knome> but sure
<slickymaster> yeah, we can access that need when the time comes
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-05
<schproodle> knome, OK I will try :)
<knome> if you break it... it can always be fixed
<slickymaster> schproodle, ping us if needing help
<schproodle> knome, you were close -- fiddled it -- looks OK now.  Thanks
<slickymaster> schproodle, now you have the link to add to the machine column in the tracker -> http://pastebin.com/VJSa0ajn
<schproodle> slickymaster, OK looks great.  I have to enter that url for each report eh.
<slickymaster> schproodle, yes, for each one :P
<slickymaster> hey schproodle, thanks a lot for being, and reporting, those tests
<schproodle> slickymaster, well some might get the impression that I know what I'm doin.  lol :)
<slickymaster> schproodle, well, the way  see it, you're doing a fabulous job
<schproodle> slickymaster, elfy helped me set up vbox earlier btw
<knome> schproodle, thanks for testing from me as well!
<slickymaster> :) is our -qa lead
<schproodle> Nice work people!
<slickymaster> he is ^ 
<knome> slickymaster, you mean elfy is :P
<slickymaster> :P
<slickymaster> you appeared out of nowhere, when I was still writing
<knome> new skill learned!
 * slickymaster is convinced that knome has ninja hidden skills
<knome> maybe in irc...
<schproodle> slickymaster, what is "-qa lead" sort of solder or petrol additive or...?
<slickymaster> schproodle, qa stands for the Xubuntu Quality Assurance team -> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-qa
<slickymaster> and elfy is the leader of that team, hence elfy is the -qa lead
<schproodle> I have enjoyed xubuntu for many years. Thanks and kudos to your team.
<slickymaster> tks schproodle 
<jjfrv8> knome, I see I missed slicky tonight. I can make 22UTC for the meeting tomorrow, or anytime from about 18 on.
<knome> jjfrv8, let's do it at 22UTC then, i'll try to be around
<jjfrv8> oki
<jjfrv8> I've got a draft of my application for -core ready, would you want to go over that then too?
<knome> sure, or if you have it ready now, you can send it to me by email, and i can review it before the meeting
<jjfrv8> OK. I'll do that.
<knome> cheers :)
<jjfrv8> cya
<knome> see you, have fun meanwhile!
<jjfrv8> :)
<Noskcaj> knome, I'll be away from the meeting then. I leave for school at 21UTC
<bluesabre> Noskaj: still around?
<bluesabre> Catfish 1.0 released, https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/1.0/1.0.0
<bluesabre> For packaging, it does not necessarily depend on locate, just has to be an application that installs a locate executable in PATH
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, I'll do that later today
<bluesabre> which, for debian and ubuntu, I believe mlocate is sufficient
<Noskcaj> and i think it's reccomends: mlocate | locate now
<bluesabre> great, that should do it
<Noskcaj> What launchpad or debian bugs are closed by this?
<bluesabre> all the bugs listed at the bottom of https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/1.0/1.0.0
<bluesabre> also, debian bugs #589777, #598598, #731363
<ubottu> Debian bug 589777 in catfish "catfish: [Patch] Make it easier to translate files found message" [Minor,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/589777
<ubottu> Debian bug 731363 in catfish "catfish: depends on locate undocumented and without favoring mlocate" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/731363
<ubottu> Debian bug 598598 in catfish "Sidebar too narrow in some locales" [Minor,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/598598
<bluesabre> well, I guess 731363 is an upload bug
<bluesabre> lp #1230245
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1230245 in Catfish "In version 0.8.2 thumbnail option doesn't work" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1230245
<bluesabre> lp #1257500
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1257500 in catfish (Ubuntu) "Contains embedded copy of pexpect" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1257500
<bluesabre> lp #1258713
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1258713 in catfish (Ubuntu) "Catfish crashing with gi._glib.GError: Icon 'camera-photo' not present in theme" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1258713
<Noskcaj> ty
<bluesabre> I can keep pasting if you'd like?
<bluesabre> lp #1261181
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1261181 in Catfish "Untranslatable strings "Search terms" and "About" etc." [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261181
<bluesabre> lp #1261185
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1261185 in Catfish "Sidebar width insufficient for non-English languages" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261185
<bluesabre> lp #1261188
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1261188 in Catfish "Folders icon in sidebar incorrectly colored" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261188
<bluesabre> lp #1274378
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1274378 in Catfish "Catfish does not search mounted shares, likely because mounts are in hidden gvfs folder" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1274378
<bluesabre> done :)
<bluesabre> I suppose I should put that into an email then
<bluesabre> :)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre: Could you email me the list? I only need bug numbers, and only for ubuntu/debian bugs
<bluesabre> ok, I'll send you the truncated list
<Noskcaj> ty
<bluesabre> sent
<bluesabre> heading to bed, email me if you have any questions or issues
<bluesabre> night all!
<Noskcaj> g'night
<pleia2> wow, our flyer is on fire
<pleia2> https://plus.google.com/110081316948826688396/posts/HDQyRR2i7in
<pleia2> +255, 82 reshares
<pleia2> knome: ^^
<pleia2> I did something right re: marketing \o/
<Noskcaj> nice work pleia2 
<pleia2> thanks :)
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<ochosi> (oh, read that thing about "sleep" too late)
<elfy> !team | if anyone gets to do a test here http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/311/builds that'll help 
<elfy> that works then 
<elfy> !team 
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<elfy> ^^
<Unit193> WARNING: This image is OVERSIZED. This should never happen during milestone testing.   Welp.
<knome> pleia2, ;)
<Unit193> elfy: Are you already testing?
<Unit193> (wrapper:2113): libxfce4util-CRITICAL **: IA__xfce_rc_write_entry: assertion 'value != NULL' failed
<Unit193> Failed to open VDPAU backend libvdpau_r300.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<Unit193> That's fun...
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: something come up and I'll be unable to make today's meeting at 19, can you postponed it to 22 UTC?
<knome> slickymaster, he said he's fine with that
<slickymaster> hey knome, morning
<slickymaster> yeah, I'm seeing it in the log, now :P
<knome> good day
<knome> slickymaster, ^ another reason why it would be a good idea to have a irc shell, even if you can't access it from work
<slickymaster> yes, you're right
<slickymaster> I'll try to discuss it with pleia2, today or tomorrow (between the team meeting and my ubuntu membership meeting)
<knome> mhm
<slickymaster> knome: mumbling or wondering?
<knome> "okay" :)
<brainwash> ochosi: any news regarding bug 1223808? is it still valid?
<ubottu> bug 1223808 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmbrc misses line to activate albuminfo-plugin" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223808
<brainwash> the bug report expired
<ochosi> yes i know
<brainwash> ok
<ochosi> i haven't resubmitted another patch/report because there were doubts that it is a good idea to activate this plugin by default (as it can theoretically stop working, being based on the parsing of a website)
<ochosi> i have to re-check the plugin's code (it was fixed upstream) to decide how to proceed with that
<brainwash> alright :)
<knome> bluesabre, ping
<elfy> Unit193: I was yes
<elfy> just after 32 bit now - I'll do some tonight
<elfy> slickymaster: remind me tomorrow re your membership meeting
<jjfrv8> knome, I see that 12.04.1 made it to -proposed but is still missing some graphics... and you've already addressed that?
<knome> jjfrv8, yep, .2 should be landing at some poing
<knome> *point
<jjfrv8> cool
<knome> yep, let's hope it finally fixes all the issues
<jjfrv8> indeed. so there's still time for it to make it into the actual release?
<knome> we will make it, i've been in touch with cjwatson, who's doing the release
<jjfrv8> :)
<schproodle> Can one change/edit a test result for yesterday's Daily?  If so, how do I find it?
<schproodle> On QATracker
<knome> schproodle, yesterday's daily... that's gone :)
<schproodle> knome, OK I realized I did not interpret the task correctly.  The test should have been failed.
<knome> run a new test against today's ISO, and report a fail
<schproodle> knome, Done.  Thanks
<knome> i mean, actually also run the test ;)
<schproodle> knome, Yes, done. That is how I realized that I goofed yesterday's test result.
<knome> heh, sure :)
<schproodle> knome, It was appropriate for you to clarify that BTW.
<slickymaster> don't worry elfy, I'll remind everyone of that in the team. And thanks for your attention and kindness
<ochosi> ali1234: seems like the X11 present-extension landed in ubuntu trusty
<knome> oookay, xubuntu-docs 12.04.2 should be safeul guided through to 12.04.4 now, respin TBD
<knome> safeul? safely.
<slickymaster> bluesabre: even though https://translations.launchpad.net/menulibre/2.0 isn't showing it (LP is borked as it's showing 0% translated when the real state is 100%), the MenuLibre 2.0 series is completely translated into portuguese
<slickymaster> knome: -docs blueprint -> Update documentation for xfdesktop 4.11: INPROGRESS
<slickymaster> can't we use the work jjfrv8 amd me did?
<slickymaster> knome: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs ^^^
<slickymaster> s/jjfrv8 amd me/jjfrv8 amd I
<knome> slickymaster, most definitely. but it'll need to be ported to the xubuntu docs
<slickymaster> ok, I'll start working on it
<knome> thanks :)
<slickymaster> knome: that will have to go on the settings-preferences chapter also
<knome> hmm.
<knome> let me see something.
<elfy> docs docs docs docs
<knome> slickymaster, you're correcy.
<knome> *t
<knome> elfy, any reason 12.04 alternate is not listed in the tracker?
<slickymaster> hey elfy, I haven't forgot that I'm also a -qa guy
<elfy> not that I know of - I've not touched the tracker
<brainwash> elfy: who let the docs out?
<elfy> knome: ^^ 
<knome> elfy, okay
<knome> slickymaster, unrelated note: we might want to reconsider the header for the "Desktop" section under "Getting to know..." once we know how the customizing chapter turns out
<knome> slickymaster, also note that the aforementioned section has a brief mention of the desktop context (right-click) menu
 * slickymaster is opening the offline docs
<knome> slickymaster, if we are explaining a lot of the desktop customization stuff, we proabably should add a quick link at the end of that section
<knome> file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/guide-desktop.html#desktop
<knome> and i might need to look at a css theming issue on the docs
<slickymaster> knome: you're talking about the new chapter right?
<knome> (not a big one, but annoying)
<slickymaster> or are you still referring to the old Chapter 3. Getting to know your desktop environment?
<knome> slickymaster, i'm talking about making sure the "Desktop" section is updated if needed, and interlinking to the new section from there when it's done
<slickymaster> I see
<slickymaster> well that seems like a sane and logic decision
<knome> slickymaster, and that we might want to reconsider the "Desktop" section's name (though it might be perfectly fine/valid to keep it as is)
<slickymaster> it won't be easy as the present name is completely self-explanatory 
<knome> sure, i'm just saying :)
 * slickymaster thinks that knome is throwing fuel on the fire
<slickymaster> ;)
<knome> always
<knome> that's how this project stays alive
<knome> ;)
<slickymaster> agree
<knome> throw flammable material on it and people need to come and extinguish it
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> knome: there's one thing though, it must be defined what is priority, MenuLibre or Xfdesktop, that's something we should address on today's meeting with jjfrv8 
<knome> that's a really hard question
<knome> basically, both are priority for this release
<slickymaster> the countdown to doc-freeze is moving on
<knome> march 20
<knome> 6 weeks
<slickymaster> a month and a half, give it or take it
<slickymaster> yeaps
<knome> (though it'd be cool to have stuff in for the beta 1)
<knome> i would say;
<knome> since xfdesktop stuff is *written*, port that now
<knome> so we can have at least it for b1
<knome> then do the menulibre stuff after that with a priority for making the doc freeze
<knome> from that point, we have about a month to finish off the rest of the stuff
<slickymaster> I think it would be better, since we already have some sort of foundation done
<knome> oh, hmm, we need to refresh the installer slideshow
<elfy> is there any menulibre documentation yet? 
<knome> elfy, nope
<slickymaster> no
<elfy> ok
<knome> i can take the lead on the installer slideshow stuff though
<slickymaster> I was thinking on starting it, now that mugshot is done with
<knome> so you don't need to have to worry about it too much
<slickymaster> thanks
<knome> slickymaster, would guess that porting the xfdesktop stuff is a day's task at most, right?
<elfy> well - my issue is at the moment - I can write a testcase that says - open menulibre - see if you can make it work
<knome> i mean, we don't need to port all of it, just some highlights
<knome> elfy, have you ran menulibre 2.0 ?
<elfy> yep - no idea how to work it - unless what I was trying to do doesn't work 
<elfy> who knows
<elfy> ?
<knome> bbiab
<slickymaster> knome: yes, I agree with the idea of just porting the highlights of it
<elfy> knome: there isn't an alternate to test it appears - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/precise/daily-live/20140204/
<slickymaster> knome: but as for being a day's task that really depends on external factors that I might not be able to control
<knome> elfy, being built
<elfy> ok
<knome> slickymaster, sure, i was referring to an ideal situation where you had a whole day to work on it ;)
<knome> elfy, though it (and the other images) need to be rebuilt for the new docs package
<knome> elfy, docs docs docs!
<elfy> :)
<slickymaster> well knome, no one promised it was supposed to be easy, so there's no need whining about the difficulties    
<knome> slickymaster, true that ;)
<elfy> well slickymaster - eventually you need to either whine or rant :p
 * knome picks up the next canister of gas and a dynamite bar
 * knome throws them in the little campfire called 'xubuntu'
 * elfy favours throwing everything in the air and wandering off into the sunset usually
<slickymaster> elfy: that's why I always have my board in the car and I'm always 5 minutes away from the ocean
<elfy> very nice :)
<slickymaster> so I won't rant and/or whine
<elfy> knome: so alternate built - install fails with no kernel modules
<elfy> updated works
<knome> elfy, yep, cjwatson is on it
<knome> elfy, respinning again
<elfy> again?
<elfy> the last one seems to be ok
<knome> 18:24  cjwatson: knome: argh, sorry, that respin didn't work because the mirror  was locked, I'll retry in a bit
<knome> elfy, maybe the new -docs package wasn't in
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> what channel are you seeing that in? 
<knome> #ubuntu-devel
<elfy> ok
<elfy> not in there
<knome> me neither usually
<knome> so don't worry :P
<knome> guess i should though
<knome> pleia2, "(c) 2012, 2013, 2014" or "(c) 2012â2014" ?
<elfy> done now 
<knome> elfy, can you confirm that when you open the docs, you see "welcome to 12.04" and the header image ?
<elfy> when it installs I will
<elfy> knome: ^^ - or do you want that from livecd rather than alternate?
<jjfrv8> knome, I just ran updates on the image I installed this morning and I got .2. It looks right now.
<knome> elfy, should be the same
<knome> jjfrv8, yep. thanks :)
<elfy> knome: looks right to me
<schproodle> Testing QATracker:  Daily wants to Upgrade Linux FAMILY by default in 'Installaion Type'. The Testcase steps might mention this when an installation will replace or install along side an existing Linux installation.  Should I be noting this in the report perhaps in the 'Comment'? 
<elfy> schproodle: the thing to do if there is an issue with a testcase is to report it as a bug here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug
<elfy> making sure to include the testcase number in the report
<schproodle> elfy, Is this a bug?  Seems like a reasonable option for installing over an existing Linux installation.
<elfy> schproodle: I've not got time to even look at the moment - if you think it's a testcase bug - report it and we'll get to it 
<schproodle> OK.
<elfy> but as far as I am aware the iso's always default to that - so if that's not right that is a bug elsewhere - but I'd suspect it to be what they want it to do
<schproodle> me 2
<schproodle> 'Details for testcase' should indicate that IMHO.
<elfy> then please just report it 
<schproodle> as a bug then?
<schproodle> OK
<elfy> yes - and I'll get notified of it - as will all testcase admins - someone will look at it 
<schproodle> okeeleedokeelee
<schproodle> elfy, Bug #1276720 'Testcase fails to note relevance of existing Linux FAMILY for Installation Type default'
<ubottu> bug 1276720 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Testcase fails to note relevance of existing Linux FAMILY for Installation Type default" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1276720
<elfy> already seen it ;)
<schproodle> What took so long eh :)
<schproodle> I hope it makes sense...
<elfy> Iv'e not looked properly yet I'm afraid
<schproodle> Sorry to bother you...carry on please.
<elfy> won't be today - I'm up to my eyes in 12.04.4 testing and other stuff atm
<pleia2> knome: 2012-2014
<pleia2> was there supposed to be a doc team meeting now?
<pleia2> I added it to the calendar :)
<elfy> pleia2: they moved it to 22:00 I think
 * elfy not involved 
<pleia2> doh
<elfy> it was due to slicky or jjfrv8 not being able to make it about now I believe - and it's those 2 that need to actually be here
<elfy> bbl
 * pleia2 nods
<ElderDryas> Does anyone know (off the top of their head) what the latest version of the nvidia driver is with 14.04-daily (today)?
<knome> pleia2, but you have a flexible employer, you can surely be around later as well ;)
<Noskcaj> knome, What time is the meeting tomorrow?
<elfy> Noskcaj: normal time 19:00 UTC
<Noskcaj> ok, i should be there
<elfy> you're confusing that with a docs one I think :)
<Noskcaj> yeah
<Noskcaj> catfish 1.0 should now be in ubuntu
<jjfrv8> evening, slickymaster 
<slickymaster> good evening jjfrv8 
<jjfrv8> knome, you around?
<knome> yep.
<slickymaster> yes he is
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu documentation checkup meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  5 22:00:00 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> #chair slickymaster jjfrv8 pleia2 
<meetingology> Current chairs: jjfrv8 knome pleia2 slickymaster
<pleia2> o/
<jjfrv8> who wants to start?
<slickymaster> I think it would be better for you to open the hostilities knome, since you're more used to it
<knome> mkay
<slickymaster> or you, jjfrv8 
<knome> #topic Quick run-through of the documentation blueprint
<knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-docs
<knome> so, the big things left to do are (looking as i type, will take some time):
<slickymaster> well, the mugshot item is done
<knome> 1) "what's new" page/slide
<knome> 2) menulibre docs
<knome> 3) copy some xfdesktop docs over
<knome> 4) update tour/about pages
<knome> 5) update installer slideshow
<knome> and finally,
<knome> 6) update documentation regarding the default xubuntu desktop layout/indicator stuff
<knome> did i miss something?
<slickymaster> I think not
<knome> well 7) translations for docs
<slickymaster> and there's also the bzr, and the code of conduct issues
<slickymaster> but that's part od the developer documentation
<knome> right, the developer docs
<slickymaster> s/od/of
<knome> i'm not sure if that's been something people have generally been excited about
<knome> and from my POV, it's on the bottom of the list
<slickymaster> understandably 
<jjfrv8> that was kind of my idea but since then I see where a lot of that stuff already exists
<knome> jjfrv8, yeah, it's probably just scattered all over the place
<slickymaster> well, regarding the points knome enumerate, I'm planning on starting to work on porting the xfdesktop over to docbook
<slickymaster> and afterwards, start to deal with the MenuLibre -docs
<knome> i consider 5, 6 and 7 blocked
<knome> (at least)
<knome> the rest we can basically work on right now
<slickymaster> actually, I thought that MenuLibre was something that me and jjfrv8 could do together, similar to what we did with parole and xfdesktop
<jjfrv8> can we talk about the "what's new" stuff?
<knome> most definitely
<knome> #topic What's new?
<slickymaster> jjfrv8, ^^
<slickymaster> ups
<knome> (you can do #topic's as well)
<jjfrv8> where do you think the subject should go in the offline docs? new chapter?
<jjfrv8> http://pad.ubuntu.com/8xtc6oWrkg
<knome> tell me if i said something else before, but i don't know if the docs are the best place for it
<knome> (i'm not opposed to that idea either though)
<jjfrv8> maybe not, can't remember
<knome> maybe website + installer slideshow?
<jjfrv8> okay
<knome> we probably want that to be quite vibrant, and the docs aren't exactly that...
<slickymaster> I think that would be preferable
<jjfrv8> yeah, cause it pretty much demands screenshots
<knome> yep, and marketing-like content
<slickymaster> agree, it kind of seems logical to be in the installer rather than in the -docs
<slickymaster> and the website
<knome> hmm, there's surely some logs about it somewhere, but i'm quite certain we thought it's best to mostly cover the LTS->LTS transition
<jjfrv8> yes, definitely LTS->LTS
<knome> do we have anything other new than is mentioned on the pad?
<slickymaster> just a sec
<slickymaster> back again, sorry
<knome> didn't even notice you were away ;)
<knome> pleia2, any thoughts?
<slickymaster> I don't seem to recall any other new stuff, other then what you already mentioned
<knome> ok, good
<knome> should we start working with it?
<pleia2> not really
<knome> apart from the integrated desktop stuff, that is
<jjfrv8> you said slideshow was blocked but I think we could start on it
<knome> i'm thinking that because we can most probably use the same material in that
<knome> we probably want a bigger transition than just "update the same old slides"
<knome> so if we have the "what's new" stuff ready, it's really easy to pick new stuff from there
<knome> and same with that, we can't really write about the new, better integrated desktop yet
<slickymaster> do you mean a complete revamp of the entire slideshow?
<knome> because things aren't in place :/
<knome> slickymaster, i've done a small visual facelift for it (to match with the website), and yeah, maybe the content is better rewritten as well
<knome> we've had the same slides for ages
<knome> and they aren't communicating "14.04 is full of new wonderful features"
<slickymaster> well, it does goes back in the day :P
<slickymaster> yeaps
<knome> so, i would actually try to postpone that as far as possible
<knome> it's good to keep in mind we have to do it... but other things seem more important now
<knome> actually, the tour page is kind of blocked for the same reason
<knome> the about page is ready to be worked on
<knome> (on the website)
<slickymaster> well, ideally I'll have xfdesktop ported to docbook format, by the end of the weekend
<knome> so it seems the things we can do now is the xfdesktop and menulibre docs
<slickymaster> jjfrv8, did you get to see what I wrote about the MenuLibre -docs?
<jjfrv8> not yet. I just tried it today for the first time.  Baffled, like elfy
<jjfrv8> didn't have v 2.0, though
<knome> ah, 2.0 is something completely different
<knome> it's a full rewrite
<jjfrv8> how to get it. I don't know from tar's
<knome> as with the testcase, i think we should cover the most basic functions
<slickymaster> jjfrv8,  my idea is that MenuLibre was something that you and me could do together, similar to what we did with parole and xfdesktop
<jjfrv8> I'm good with that.
<knome> jjfrv8, 2.x is in trusty
<slickymaster> once we overcome the initial barriers
<jjfrv8> then I must have overwritten it :(
<slickymaster> yes, I've installed it today in my trusty box
<slickymaster> bluesabre, already has a namespace ready for them: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=menulibre-docs
<knome> slickymaster, unrelated note: that site says "staging site", check with bluesabre if he's ok with us linking there from the docs, or if he's planning to move the docs
<slickymaster> good point knome. I haven't done that and I've linked http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs in the settings-preferences chapter
<pleia2> we could always upload them to docs.xubuntu.org
<knome> i just noticed that myself
<knome> worksforme
<jjfrv8> but basically, I fine with starting on xfdesktop and menulibre with slicky
<knome> pleia2, but no can has dokuwiki on docs.
<pleia2> right, it wouldn't be a wiki
<pleia2> static snapshot of documentation
<slickymaster> I'll ping bluesabre on that
<pleia2> but whatever, we can treat this like any other upstream
<slickymaster> if not today tomorrow morning at the very least
<knome> pleia2, yep.
<slickymaster> jjfrv8, you could start on the MenuLibre while I wrap Xfdesktop until the weekend and by the start of next week I would join exclusively on that
<jjfrv8> okay
 * slickymaster hopes that elfy won't start to say docs, docs, docs, and no -qa
<slickymaster> with some luck we might have those ready for alpha1
<jjfrv8> too late for that :)
<elfy> alpha1 is long gone ... 
<elfy> some qa bloke you are :p
 * slickymaster hides in shame
<slickymaster> yeaps, you're right
<elfy> :)
<slickymaster> about alpha1, not about doubting my '-qaness'
<jjfrv8> knome, what about extending the docs? you mentioned two things from the Ubuntu Manual
<elfy> :)
<knome> jjfrv8, i'm considering the ubuntu manual stuff bottom of the list as well
<Unit193> And perhaps a "What application preforms what role"?
<jjfrv8> okay, fine with that
<knome> jjfrv8, it's just one more resource to dig some stuff from *when* we are comfortable with everything else and want to extend the docs
<knome> Unit193, like, extend file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/guide-default-apps.html
<knome> (expecting you to have the docs installed)
<Unit193> More or less, but with more core applications.
<knome> Unit193, would be fine with merge proposals
<knome> Unit193, also note we have file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/command-line.html#command-line-common-commands, which you might want to extend while at it
<Unit193> (Do people use `edit` and `editor`?)
 * knome shrugs
<Unit193> I can chech _history for what I commonly use, at least.
<knome> i use nano.
<knome> ochosi, stop hiding
<jjfrv8> so, we have our plan, at least for the short term?
 * ochosi unhides
<slickymaster> I would think we have
<slickymaster> knome, anything you want to add?
<knome> humph, well
<knome> talk with ochosi about the desktop stuff
<knome> i mean, not necessarily now, but...
<knome> can we do a simple task assiging
<knome> #topic Assigning some tasks
<jjfrv8> please
<slickymaster> go for it
<knome> or tbe, see who's leading what
<knome> so slickymaster, you'll be leading the xfdesktop stuff
<slickymaster> yeaps
<knome> jjfrv8, want to steer the menulibre docs at least for now?
<jjfrv8> sure
<knome> i'll make sure i'll nag myself and you about the installer slideshow
<knome> pleia2, you ok to nag us about the website?
<knome> i still need to look at some translation stuff, so i guess i can do the reminders/calls for translators later
<knome> #action slickymaster to lead porting xfdesktop docs
<meetingology> ACTION: slickymaster to lead porting xfdesktop docs
<knome> #action jjfrv8 to lead writing menulibre docs
<meetingology> ACTION: jjfrv8 to lead writing menulibre docs
<knome> #action knome to lead/nag about updating the installer slideshow
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to lead/nag about updating the installer slideshow
<knome> #action knome to not let the team forget about translations
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to not let the team forget about translations
<knome> #action pleia2 (voluntelled) to not let the team forget about website
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 (voluntelled) to not let the team forget about website
<knome> #action Unit193 to do merge proposals for "X performs Y" styled listings for the docs
<meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to do merge proposals for "X performs Y" styled listings for the docs
<Unit193> >_>
<slickymaster> lol
<knome> jjfrv8, you probably got my reply, but will confirm here: the mail looks good as is, go ahead and i'll +1 your application
<pleia2> :)
<knome> #action knome to remember to +1 jjfrv8's application for ~ubuntu-core-doc membership
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to remember to +1 jjfrv8's application for ~ubuntu-core-doc membership
<knome> anything else?
<slickymaster> I think that's about it
<jjfrv8> nope, thanks.
<knome> ok, great
<knome> if you have any questions or anything, i'm available as usually in this channel, PM and email
<knome> thanks! :)
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  5 22:59:51 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-02-05-22.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-02-05-22.00.html
<pleia2> oh, and quick reminder *ubuntu* docs meeting is tomorrow
<knome> oh, right
<pleia2> in 23.5 hours, over in #ubuntu-doc
<knome> what time was it?
<pleia2> er 23 hours
<knome> 2330UTC that is?
<pleia2> at 22 utc :)
<slickymaster> speaking about ir pleia2, I'm not sure I'll be able to maake it
<knome> heh,
<knome> right :)
<pleia2> I don't know what time it is now!
<Unit193> @now
<meetingology> Unit193: Error: "now" is not a valid command.
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 05 2014, 23:00:42
<pleia2> thanks ubottu 
<knome> pleia2, it's 23UTC now
<knome> i have it on my panel!
<knome> (and i'm just 2 hours off...)
<pleia2> me too, my brain is just melty today
<slickymaster> hey pleia2, do you think we can discuss the IRC shell?
<knome> ooh ooh! ;)
<pleia2> slickymaster: sure, what I need from your is username and public ssh key
<pleia2> I have to get back to work ,everyone else can tell you what those are and how to use them
<pleia2> just email: lyz@princessleia.com
<knome> slickymaster, you have one: https://launchpad.net/~slickymaster/+sshkeys
<knome> slickymaster, and i guess you have a username as well... :)
<slickymaster> yeaps, knome 
<slickymaster> indeed
<pleia2> ok, I'll add slickymaster user with that key
<knome> yay, no need for email ;)
<slickymaster> tks pleia2 
<knome> slickymaster, are you familiar with any CLI irc client?
<slickymaster> nopes, never used one
<knome> okay. do you know what 'screen' does?
<slickymaster> in a regular terminal?
<knome> yep
<pleia2> slickymaster: should be able to ssh slickymaster@dagobah.princessleia.com
<slickymaster> nopes
<slickymaster> I'm all ears knome 
<knome> slickymaster, check if you can login first (since pleia2 needs to run soon anyway)
<pleia2> success \o/
<slickymaster> knome, pleia2 I'm logged
<slickymaster> yeaps \o/
<knome> great
<knome> thanks again, pleia2 :)
<slickymaster> yes pleia2, thanks
<knome> minutes from the meeting are up in the wiki
<slickymaster> back to screen, knome, I'm assuming I'll have to install it
<slickymaster> right?
<knome> slickymaster, nope!
<knome> let's go to -offtopic
<slickymaster> okie
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-06
<bluesabre> knome: pong
<bluesabre> slickyma1ter
<knome> umhumm, sorted
<knome> xubuntu-docs 12.04.2 is in.
<bluesabre> the dokuwiki can be updated to not say "staging", give it a more lovely facade :)
<knome> had to dig up your .dsc and .tar.gz to get the binary images uploaded
<bluesabre> knome: fantastic
<knome> and everything is as supposed now
<slickymaster> bluesabre, MenuLibre 2.0 series is completely translated into portuguese even though LP is showing 0% translated
<bluesabre> thanks slickymaster: I'll try to figure out what the issue with lp
<bluesabre> wish me luck ;)
<knome> good luck
<knome> the canonical servers have been playing games today
<slickymaster> another thing, bluesabre, are you ok with us linking your wiki from the docs, or are you planning to move the docs?
<bluesabre> slickymaster: I'm fine with linking to it, I have no intention of relocating them if its not necessary
<bluesabre> mugshot and menulibre both link to the dokuwiki in their respective --help
<bluesabre> or/ manpages
<slickymaster> great, thanks bluesabre 
<bluesabre> catfish 1.0 is in trusty
<bluesabre> I think mugshot should make it, it made it into debian today
<bluesabre> not sure if we have to do anything, or if it will be pulled in with the debian sync before debian import freeze
<ochosi> nice work bluesabre 
<bluesabre> its Noskcaj to thank
<bluesabre> he's been a packaging machine
<ochosi> well you've done a fair share of coding, no need to be modest about that
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you have time on the weekend, we could try to get the greeter in shape for a release
<bluesabre> ochosi: I might have such an opportunity saturday/sunday morning
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> currently, the indicator-stuff needs some testing
<ochosi> brainwash said that it slows down the greeter
<ochosi> (which is hard to test on my machine)
<ochosi> would be good to ask him to find out whether it's slower than unity-greeter
<ochosi> only two weeks till feature-freeze...
<ochosi> anyway, i'm out
<Unit193> Tschau.
<bluesabre> yeah, I'll try to get some testing in tomorrow maybe
<elfy> hi slickyma1ter 
<elfy> sigh
<elfy> hi slickymaster 
<slickymaster> morning elfy 
 * elfy is busy checking core testcases and raising bugs
<elfy> again
<slickymaster> now I'm not sure If I must had logged in as slickymaster or slickyma1ter
<elfy> webchat is slickymaster - you're alterego on dagobah is slickyma1ter 
<slickymaster> ok, thanks elfy 
<bluesabre> woot
<bluesabre> mugshot
<bluesabre>      0.2-1 0
<bluesabre>         500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty/universe amd64 Packages
<bluesabre> back to bed to sleep like a normal human
<slickymaster> sweet dreams bluesabre 
<Unit193> >_>
<bluesabre> Unit193: go to bed D:
<elfy> knome: - volman testcase - specifies opening with a bunch of different media - should we make it obvious that not having a 'type' of media is not a cause for failing the testcase
<elfy> and that people should just note in comments what they don't have
<knome> elfy, or the other way, always specify what they *did* test?
<elfy> that works too - okey doke :)
<knome> don't know. either way works for me, but you are right in the failing part.
<elfy> yep
<elfy> slickymaster: if you get chance to look https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/xfcecorecheck/+merge/205140
<slickymaster> I will after lunch elfy, scout's word
<elfy> thanks :)
<elfy> talking of which ... 
<slickymaster> hungry?
<elfy> is there a Y in the day ... 
<slickymaster> :)
<knome> bbl
<slickymaster> ochosi: ping
<slickymaster> you around?
<ochosi> slickymaster: pong
<ochosi> what up?
<slickymaster> ochosi: I'm starting to port xfdesktop from bluesabre's wiki to xub -docs
<slickymaster> the idea is to rewrite the existing section with just the highlights
<ochosi> sounds cool
<slickymaster> any thoughts on everything in particular you should think ought to be ported?
<ochosi> you mean thoughts on what highlights to point out?
<slickymaster> what do you see as important to be placed in the docs?
<slickymaster> ecatly
<ochosi> i'd explain stuff like the time-based changing of the wallpaper
<slickymaster> exactly
<ochosi> many settings are easy to understand in the dialog, that's one of the more complex ones
<slickymaster> keep in mind that what's going to be rewritten is //usr/share/xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/guide-desktop.html#customizing-appearance
<ochosi> then, the multi-monitor handling
<slickymaster> other than that, anything else?
<slickymaster> did you get to finish the multi-monitor section in blusabre's wiki?
<ochosi> afaik the "set as wallpaper" shortcut in thunar is currently broken
<ochosi> it would have to be updated to work with xfdesktop4.11
<ochosi> so better re-think whether that shouldn't be removed from the docs
<ochosi> (or we get someone to write a patch)
<slickymaster> that patch would have to be done before doc-freeze 
<ochosi> hm, sry about dropping the ball a bit on the xfdesktop docs. i was in touch with eric_the_idiot_ and NSchermer to get them merged, but the whole docs-versioning thing held everything up :/
<ochosi> when's doc-freeze again?
<slickymaster> 6 weeks from now
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> hm, well i might be able to look into fixing that...
<slickymaster> if I'm not mistaken
<ochosi> currently wanna fix a few things in the greeter first though
<ochosi> slickymaster: i'll send another email about the xfdesktop docs now...
<slickymaster_> damn internet connection
<slickymaster_> ochosi: I might have missed something you said
<elfy> he said "currently wanna fix a few things in the greeter first though" "slickymaster: i'll send another email about the xfdesktop docs now..."
<slickymaster_> thanks elfy 
<ochosi> thanks parrot-elfy :)
<elfy> assuming that is you know what the last thing you said was :p
<ochosi> we should get a parrot-bot that PMs the last 20 lines that were said in the channel :>
<slickymaster_> these days one starts to even doubt that :P
<elfy> ochosi: I was really kind too - I didn't ping that ochosi guy a bunch of times
<elfy> ochosi: lol
<ochosi> indeed
<elfy> sat here doing tests for zequence - I hope he knows he owes me now :p
<slickymaster_> so, just to wrap things up, do you think there's any chances of doing anything with the multi-monitor issue ochosi 
<zequence> elfy: I'm too poor to pay you ;)
<elfy> that's ok - we'll be doing beta 1 tests for trusty soon :p
<ochosi> slickymaster_: yes, i promise i'll do that today or tomorrow
<ochosi> currently @work, so only one monitor
<slickymaster_> ok, thanks, I'll owe you one
<ochosi> thanks for reminding me
<slickymaster_> np
<elfy> zequence: I've done the install test for 32 bit - got no way to do the live session persistence test one
<ochosi> well, i think we'll just be about even (or even i might still owe you for all the great work you did on the docs)
<ochosi> brb
<slickymaster> elfy: in your MP (https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/xfcecorecheck) all the testcases number match the ones in the tracker, right?
<elfy> I hope so - or it's going to go horribly wrong
<slickymaster> just confirming
<slickymaster> do you want me to review it in LP, or just give you a opinion here?
<slickymaster> elfy: ^^^
<elfy> best do it on LP
<slickymaster> okie dokie, you'll have it this afternoon
<elfy> thanks - I'll get things sorted later
<slickymaster> lunch time
<slickymaster> brb ->
<ochosi> hmp, so for the thunar wallpaper plugin i'm afraid we'll have to patch thunar for ubuntu
<elfy> knome: oh yea - why wouldn't the tracker let me mark the alternates as ready yesterday? confused ... 
 * knome shrugs
<elfy> lol - I did that as well - didn't make the slightest difference when I did it though :)
<knome> so... do you want a release announcement?
<elfy> didn't have one for .3 that I remember or can see 
<knome> .4 is the last point update though, and we have the new docs in
<knome> though i don't feel strongly either way
<elfy> mmm - well I don't fee strongly either
<elfy> I'd guess that those on .3 would have done the docs if they'd needed to and wouldn't likely notice 
<elfy> or .1 or .2 
<knome> was a release announcement for .1
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/news/12-04-1-release/
<knome> could do something similar this time, a short announcement
<knome> (also noting that it is indeed the last point release)
<elfy> ok
<knome> i have about until 16UTC to draft it if you want
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/blbAPMlWQj
<elfy> ok - I'm about to wander - will be back in a short while
<elfy> bah - back shortly
<knome> oki
<knome> elfy, http://xubuntu.org/?p=2072&preview=true
<elfy> I's back 
<slickymaster> elfy: are you back?
<slickymaster> :)
<knome> elfy, feel free to publish when cjwatson announces if i'm not around
<elfy> knome: ok - looks ok to me too
<slickymaster> elfy: Bug #1276965: Test Case 1583 -> <dt>Click "Gear Icon" on the menu bar</dt> if you press the gear icon a menu won't drop down, what happens is that Application Finder opens
<ubottu> bug 1276965 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Case 1583" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1276965
<slickymaster> in order to the menu drop down what has to be clicked is the arrow icno to the right of the gear icon
<slickymaster> s/icno/icon
<elfy> knome: if you go - make sure you've not got it locked then - and save it :p
<knome> oops :P
<knome> released the lock.
<elfy> :p
<knome> btw, you can force unlocking
<knome> not that it is wise, but if i would have been gone...
<elfy> knome: I know - but I didn'ty know if it had been saved or anything :p
<knome> it is, it is
<elfy> slickymaster: hang on - catching up :)
<brainwash> recent lightdm update seems to be broken here
<elfy> slickymaster: aaah - I see that the arrow is actually seperate from the icons ... 
<slickymaster> yes
<elfy> not very apparent for one with knackered eyes
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> another thing, in that test you have  <dt>Click "Switch Icon" on the menu bar</dt> what's this icon?
<slickymaster> because I'm not seeing it in my task manager
<slickymaster> elfy: ^^^are you referring to the Settings for Task Manager icon?
<elfy> the one that looks like a set of switches
<elfy> calling these icons names that mean nothing is a matter of taste :p
<slickymaster> well that one is the Settings for Task Manager
<slickymaster> elfy: I think that what you intend is the the arrow icon to the right of that one 
<slickymaster> :P
<slickymaster> they are also separate icons
<elfy> probably - I'm in the middle of a bunch of stuff here - including hungry kids
<elfy> at the moment - the testcase says click execute and click preferences
<slickymaster> I'll comment it in LP
<elfy> neither of which is actually there
<slickymaster> yeas, you're right about that
<elfy> but I didn't actually realise that there was a button and menu either
<elfy> just forget that one - and look at the others
<elfy> bbl
<elfy> and the quit button has just disappeared as well
<slickymaster> yes, you just have it when you right-cilik it in the panel
<zequence> Did live session persistance work in Xubuntu 12.04.4?
<zequence> Or, has no one tested that before?
<elfy> I'm bad - never check it tbh - and in fact we rejigged our live testcase to read like this http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1303/info
<elfy> slickymaster: I'm back now and looking
<slickymaster> I'm half way through my reviewing
<elfy> don't bother with task manager - I'm redoing it as I speak
<elfy> unless you already have :)
<knome> elfy, i'm off, you need to publish the article :)
<knome> ->
<slickymaster> elfy: https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/xfcecorecheck/+merge/205140
<elfy> Line 140 needs to be reworded because when a user hits Ctrl+W, the note doesn't get deleted, a dialog prompts him for an answer
<elfy> then there's a bug - it just deletes here ... 
<elfy> slickymaster: ^^
<slickymaster> elfy: don't you get that prompt?
<elfy> nope
<slickymaster> I get it 
<elfy> trsuty? version 1.7.7
<slickymaster> elfy: I have xfce4-notes:   Installed: 1.7.7-3ubuntu2
<slickymaster> yes, in Trusty
<elfy> mmm - definitely not here
<slickymaster> then it's definitely a bug in yours 
<elfy> 1.7.7-3ubunt
<slickymaster> weird, we're both with the same version
<slickymaster> maybe brainwash could check his'
<slickymaster> brainwash: ^^^
<elfy> I can create notes with ctrl+n as fast as I want - then delete them with ctrl+w just as quickly
<elfy> and that is both in this mutilated install and today's daily 
<slickymaster> well, the existence of the prompt makes all the sense
<slickymaster> so a note won't get deleted carelessly 
<elfy> I agree 
<elfy> mmm - ok I will reset that testcase - obviously a bug then
<slickymaster> other then those two tests I think you are to be congratulated
<elfy> ok - I'll rejig the task manager one later, set the notes one back
<elfy> and not assume that the testcase is incorrect :p
<slickymaster> when Unit193 wake up, we can nag him to see the behavior he gets in his system 
<elfy> bug 1277154
<ubottu> bug 1277154 in xfce4-notes-plugin (Ubuntu) "Ctrl+W does not ask for confirmation on note delete" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277154
<elfy> slickymaster: done those now
<slickymaster> elfy: https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/xfcecorecheck/+merge/205140
<elfy> thanks slickymaster 
<slickymaster> np
<elfy> I beat bzr into submission
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> no machine will defeat us
<elfy> well I've not synced yet :p
<elfy> synced now
<slickymaster> \o/ elfy: 1 - bzr: 0
<elfy> :)
<slickymaster> bbl ->
<knome> !team | meeting time
<ubottu> meeting time: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<ali1234> o/
<knome> would somebody else like to chair?
<Noskcaj> o/
<pleia2> o/
<slickymaster> o/
<jjfrv8-work> o/  can't chair - at work.
<knome> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  6 19:02:06 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  6 19:02:32 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-02-06-19.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-02-06-19.02.html
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  6 19:02:38 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<elfy> o/
<knome> #topic Open action items
<knome> will have to dig them up...
<ali1234> gtk3 indicators
<knome> ali1234, will we carry that on?
<ali1234> yes. nothing further happened with the upstart porting, but something new also came to my attention recently
<knome> oki
<knome> #action ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status 
<meetingology> ACTION: ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status
<knome> #action ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues 
<meetingology> ACTION: ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues
<knome> #nick micahg
<knome> #action     elfy to poke Noskcaj if time-admin and users-admin do not exist in the next daily 
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to poke Noskcaj if time-admin and users-admin do not exist in the next daily
<ali1234> namely that elementary also is a user of indicators, and they are in the same boat as us, except that they don't seem to be as well up with what is going on
<knome> Noskcaj, did you get that sorted out with pitti?
<ali1234> so i'm going to go and have a chat with them, if i can
<elfy> knome: that's been put to bed now
<knome> ali1234, ok, so we're steering that ship; thanks for keeping updated
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x18d3b90>
<Noskcaj> knome, yep. I screwed up on some DESTDIR stuff
<knome> elfy, cheers :)
<knome> Noskcaj, ok, great to have it sorted then
<knome> #action knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position 
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position
<knome> will carry one
<knome> *on
<knome> i think we're good with the bluetooth stuff.
<knome> #action micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches 
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches
<knome> micahg-work, ping, is that done?
<micahg-work> working on it
<knome> ok, carrying on
<knome> #action xubuntu-qa to make sure there is a blueman testcase
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-qa to make sure there is a blueman testcase
<knome> #nick xubuntu-qa
<knome> and from the docs meeting:
<knome> #action Unit193 to do merge proposals for "X performs Y" styled listings for the docs 
<meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to do merge proposals for "X performs Y" styled listings for the docs
<knome> #nick Unit193 
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> use #info and #action as appropriate.
<knome> floor is yours
<slickymaster> #info slickymaster has finished porting the Mugshot documentation into the Xubuntu docs
<elfy> knome: actioning something is great - but if we've not got any bluetooth to check - it'll get moved on 
<slickymaster> #info slickymaster started to work on porting the Xfdesktop documentation into Xubuntu docs
<jjfrv8-work> #info Docs team held a Trusty meeting and assignments were handed out
<elfy> #info xubuntu-qa Package testing - Settings Manager - mandatory testing +2, run-once and optional +1
<elfy> #info xubuntu-qa 12.04.4 32bit/ Live 4 tests, Alt 5 test
<elfy> #info xubuntu-qa 12.04.4 64bit/ Live 6 tests, Alt 6 tests
<elfy> #info xubuntu-qa Trusty Daily 32 bit 11 tests
<elfy> #info xubuntu-qa Trusty Daily 64 bit 18 tests
<elfy> #info xubuntu-qa XFCE Core Package testing due next week
<elfy> #info xubuntu-qa light-locker has seen testing now
<knome> elfy, we should be shipping blueman
<knome> :)
<jjfrv8-work> #info Kudos to knome and bluesabre for getting the SRU Docs update through all the hurdles
<knome> and i can organize testing for the testcase :)
<knome> yeah, yay, fixed looks for the docs in 12.04!
<pleia2> \o/
<Noskcaj> weather plugin 12.04 status?
<elfy> knome: blueman - mandatory, optional or run-once
<knome> elfy, either opt or once
<elfy> #info elfy Blueman added to Network Testsuite
<elfy> so that's done then
<knome> hehe, nice
<knome> though one can argue if it's network or not >:)
<elfy> yep - we can argue all you like - the die is cast :p
<ali1234> i tried to use blueman today and it crashed - for a2dp/sound :(
<knome> ali1234, did you file a bug?
<ali1234> no, it's saucy, nobody will care
<ali1234> probably won't be able to reproduce it either
<knome> #info knome and pleia2 helped startubuntu create some xubuntu-branded versions of "xp to *buntu*" flyers
<Unit193> Got indicator-sound merged.
<knome> Unit193, caaaaan you #infoooo
<elfy> :p
<pleia2> #info the flyers were widely shared on social media and pleia2 is printing some up for an upcoming conference
<pleia2> #link http://xubuntu.org/marketingresources/
<knome> pleia2, still, you don't need #link with bare links ;)
<pleia2> #info site updated to link to several language variations on spreadubuntu.org
 * pleia2 shrugs
<Unit193> #info got pavucontrol merged into indicator-sound as an alternate recommends to the control centers, so we shouldn't be pulling them in because of that at least.
<Unit193> Just waiting to hear back from the two artists for the xubuntu-community-artwork package, also if mica has time to review it, but not sure he does.
<knome> Unit193, this is a meeting, just proudly ping people :P
<knome> re: #xubuntu, i have the page ready to be updated, waiting for cjwatson's ack of release
<knome> anything else for the updates?
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> #info 12.04.4 will be released any minute!
<pleia2> :D
<slickymaster> I have an offtopic announcement
<jjfrv8-work> #info With knome's help, jjfrv8 received approval for ~ubuntu-core-doc membership
<knome> \o/
<Unit193> \o/
<elfy> \o/
<slickymaster> congrats jjfrv8 
<knome> i just went and marked that as done in the blueprint
<slickymaster> today is my Ubuntu Membership application, at 22:00 UTC, in #ubuntu-meeting. So if you guys feel like showing up and support it I would appreciate it
<elfy> it's a bit late ... :p
<knome> pleia2, was that at the same time as the docs meeting? :D
<knome> too many meetings today.
<pleia2> knome: yes
<slickymaster> yes it is, knome :P
<pleia2> indeed
<knome> slickymaster, if i'm around, will be there
<slickymaster> tks
<Unit193> slickymaster: Since I didn't write one yet, make sure to ping me right before so I will be there?
<knome> #info Debian Import Freeze is today
<slickymaster> will do Unit193 
<knome> #info Feature Freeze is in 2 weeks
<slickymaster> and also you, micahg-work 
<Unit193> Yeah, sorry.
<knome> #info Beta 1 is in 3 weeks, freeze in the first half of that week
<knome> #topic Agenda
<knome> no specific agenda items.
<knome> does anybody have something else to discuss?
<Noskcaj> weather plugin in 12.04
<Noskcaj> my MOTU application
<knome> what's with the weather plugin?
<pleia2> after yesterday's doc meeting, I'm putting together a release checklist for the website (what we need to create/update)
<knome> pleia2, don't we have that in the wiki?
<knome> let me dig that up.
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Release_Cycle
<knome> specifically, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Releasing
<pleia2> knome: it needs updating
<knome> yep.
<knome> but please do it on the wiki :)
<pleia2> "Update the website" isn't enough ;)
<knome> i'm also thinking that could have its own subpage in Processes
<schproodle> Testing QATracker using VirtualBox. Testing Post-Install.  Pendrive insertion fails in VM but it is mounted by the host machine.
<knome> well there's also "wiki maintaining"
<pleia2> we need to come up with our FAQ post, define which pages need updates, etc
<knome> what we probably need is gather all these in one big calendar
<knome> or, a similar table as the release schedules
<knome> schproodle, we're in the middle of the meeting, if you can wait for 15 minutes, would be good.
<pleia2> Unit193 could just put these milestones into the xubuntu calendar
<knome> schproodle, feel free to take part in the meeting though
<knome> xubuntu calendar is a bit meh :|
<schproodle> I get the donuts eh :)
<knome> TBH, i think the release schedule table is surprisingly good
<Unit193> pleia2: Sure, sorry what ones?
<pleia2> so you don't want it in a calendar? :)
<knome> pleia2, can be *as well*
<pleia2> Unit193: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Releasing
<knome> pleia2, but i guess i'd also like to have a release-specific calendar
<knome> that should of course be updated per release
<pleia2> no moar calendars
<knome> err,
<knome> i mean
<knome> wiki table
<knome> :P
<pleia2> ah
<knome> ala https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<elfy> :)
<pleia2> yeah sure
<knome> i do agree that the processes page needs updating though
<knome> i'm more than happy to help with it any day our schedules allow to sit down together
<knome> ...figuratively speaking
<pleia2> ok, I'll start brainstorming when I have extra braincells, then we can flesh it out
<knome> sure, great, thanks
<knome> #action pleia2 starts working on getting the Processes wikipage updated and cleaned
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 starts working on getting the Processes wikipage updated and cleaned
<Unit193> In addition to, or rather than?
<knome> Unit193, we should probably update the calendar with those milestones as well.
<knome> and i should probably either learn using the calendar (in a non-technical way), or just dismiss all schedules after trusty ;)
<knome> #action Unit193 to add process-related tasks as events in the xubuntu team calendar
<meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to add process-related tasks as events in the xubuntu team calendar
<knome> Noskcaj, still waiting for an answer re: weather plugin
<Noskcaj> ok
<knome> so what's up with it in precise?
<micahg-work> in unapproved
<knome> is there something specific to be discussed about it, or do we just want it to move along?
<Noskcaj> I just wanted to check the status with micahg-work 
<knome> okay
<knome> Noskcaj, ok, motu application
<micahg-work> if the weather plugin is needed for something, poke the SRU team, but precise-proposed has been frozen the last few days
<Noskcaj> well weather-plugin is complete dead currently
<Noskcaj> I've not had a reply to my motu application in three weeks
<micahg-work> I'll try to move that forward tonight
<Unit193> knome: OK, done more or less, might want to take a look.  Also, what additional data do you want?
<knome> Unit193, you should talk with pleia2, or alternative me after we've refreshed the page
<knome> Noskcaj, can you talk with the SRU team about the weather plugin?
<Noskcaj> ok
<elfy> once it's ready, let me know - but I should pick it up from the bug
<knome> 12.04 is supported for one more year only (for the xubuntu part), and 14.04 is out in 6 months, so the more it stands in queues the less its impact will be
<elfy> #action Noskcaj to ping elfy re weather plugin 
<meetingology> ACTION: Noskcaj to ping elfy re weather plugin
<knome> #action micahg to look at Noskcaj's MOTU application
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to look at Noskcaj's MOTU application
<knome> #action Noskcaj to poke the SRU team about the weather plugin
<meetingology> ACTION: Noskcaj to poke the SRU team about the weather plugin
<knome> any other things people want to discuss?
<elfy> nope
<knome> #topic Schedule next meeting
<knome> #info Next meeting Thu, Feb 13 at 19UTC
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  6 19:44:58 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-02-06-19.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-02-06-19.02.html
<elfy> thanks knome 
<knome> ta ta
<jjfrv8-work> cyall
<slickymaster> thanks knome 
<knome> will set up the meetings now
<pleia2> thanks knome 
<knome> if only the wiki was at all faster
<knome> might take a while with these speeds
<knome> minutes up
<knome> also, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Toolbox/MinutesTemplate?action=info ;)
<pleia2> 12.04.4 \o/
<pleia2> hey, our flyer, again http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/the-linux-distillery/63020-still-on-windows-xp
<elfy> knome: I've published it now
<knome> ta
<knome> i've just updated the download links, pointing to .4 now
<elfy> ok
<knome> and i'm off
<knome> bbl
<pleia2> I'll social media it once I finish up the ubuntu fridge post
<brainwash> I like the flyer, it's kinda funny -> "will you buy a new computer or.."
<Unit193> Isn't the motu application not under our umbrella, so not something we should action?
<Noskcaj> Unit193, It's under micah's
<Unit193> Yes, he isn't Xubuntu, he's mica.
<elfy> Unit193: I'd agree 
<Unit193> New event added: http://goo.gl/ELP3Ud
<elfy> schproodle: "Pendrive insertion fails in VM but it is mounted by the host machine." is probably about usb's not being setup in virtual machine 
<Unit193> schproodle: Do you have the virtualbox extension pack?
<schproodle> elfy, I do now. Got it working. thanks
<schproodle> elfy, I could not do the QATracker testing without vbox eh. I am trying all kinds of distros as well.  Basic FreeBSD is raw .
<schproodle> Unit193, I installed the extension. Had to logout to get that vbox group registered. Thanks
<schproodle> Can inserting a pendrive shut my computer off?
<schproodle> Not a good sign.
<elfy> it can shut one of my laptops off - but the socket's had it 
<schproodle> crap!  just avoid a particular socker then eh?
<schproodle> by socker you mean the computer -- not the pendrive right?
<Unit193> Socket.
<schproodle> Seems one has to install usb pendrives for each VM for VirtualBox.
<schproodle> Unit193, not soccer, I will get it sorted. :)
<knome> slickymaster is now a ubuntu member!
<elfy> woohoo
<Unit193> I'll say it again, well deserved.
<slickymaster> my face is red guys, all from your words
<Unit193> He's very angry.
<Unit193> :---D
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> congrats slickymaster 
<knome> like this children's show host? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpmKykMT1JU
<slickymaster> thanks ochosi 
<slickymaster> ah ah ah, just without the bottle
<knome> "nasse-setÃ¤ on hyvin hyvin vihainen" == "uncle nasse is very very angry"
<slickymaster> correction bottles
<knome> hehe
<knome> well he *plays* them O:)
<slickymaster> lol, 
<ochosi> Noskcaj: i linked a thunar-patch to the features-blueprint today, in case you can package that one in, that'd be great! (fix wallpaper-plugin with xfdesktop4.11, explanation why and what in the bugt)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-07
<Unit193> jjfrv8: I've added you as reviewer simply because you are docs lead.
<Noskcaj> ochosi, I'll take a look later tonight
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Are there any other patches i should cherry pick?
<slickymaster-job> morning all
<elfy> morning slickymaster-job 
<slickymaster-job> hi elfy, good morning
<elfy> knome: you seen the numbers on the package tracker lately - certainly appears that calling for sections every fortnight or so works 
<knome> elfy, no, i have to confess i haven't been looking too much (implies you're doing your job well)
<elfy> lol
<knome> but great to hear it's working :)
<knome> i seriously need to start running tests for the betas
<elfy> well ... when beta tests come up - and I report for the blog - I will have 2 lists. 1 for people and another for people in -team :p
<knome> good
<Unit193> ochosi: And present extension in trusty too.
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: hey
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: https://github.com/pmjdebruijn/xcalibrator
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: but that uses a colorimeter though
<pmjdebruijn> it's not the gamma thing
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i know, i noticed a few days ago (and thought i even posted that here)
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: oh, cool!
<Unit193> ochosi: Couldn't remember if you did about Debian or trusty, and backlog isn't there.
<ochosi> Unit193: afair from what ali1234 said, you also need a rather bleeding edge intel driver for the present extension...
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: so this is for calibrating, or does it also load the color-profile in the session daemon-like?
<pmjdebruijn> it requires xiccd for that
<pmjdebruijn> xiccd/colord
<pmjdebruijn> in xfce's case
<pmjdebruijn> which I have packaged on a ppa :)
<Unit193> And I presume  * Merge from Debian git.  isn't enough. :/
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: it's really silly, I put xfce4-terminal into fullscreen mode, to make it look less like a script :)
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: haha, nice :) well you could've also used zenity or something ;)
<ochosi> although i'm not sure in what shape that is today
<ochosi> been ages that i used it
<pmjdebruijn> right
<pmjdebruijn> well I wanted a black background anyhow
<ochosi> :>
<pmjdebruijn> that's the only downside though if the user has a weird color scheme set
<pmjdebruijn> which a nonblack background
<pmjdebruijn> but it's not a huge problem
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i presume...
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: ah, for the calibrating you mean, the black background is better?
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: shouldn't be a significant difference
<pmjdebruijn> it's not meant like a real project anyhow
<pmjdebruijn> just as an example how people can do their own scripts :)
<ochosi> yeah, well i think that's great
<ochosi> i'll have to get a hold of a colorimeter though to test it :>
<pmjdebruijn> don't feel obliged to test it :)
<pmjdebruijn> was just an FYI
<pmjdebruijn> if you ever want to get into color management for yourself, feel free to bump me though
<Unit193> ochosi: Hah, he didn't bump the year, but reset the date: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-intel/tree/NEWS :D
<knome> pmjdebruijn, that whole thing is interestering for me as well, so please keep poking us :)
<knome> err, interesting :D
<pmjdebruijn> nanotube: haha :)
<pmjdebruijn> oops
<pmjdebruijn> knome: haha :)
<pmjdebruijn> it's a bit complicated though
<pmjdebruijn> it's not fire and forget tech
<pmjdebruijn> and you need a pricy piece of hardware :)
<pmjdebruijn> I've mostly worked with Richard on GNOME Color Manager
<pmjdebruijn> but since xiccd I did a little work on that as well
<pmjdebruijn> since xiccd covers everything that isn't GNOME or KDE
<pmjdebruijn> btw TearFree seems completely stable now in intel.. 909
<knome> pmjdebruijn, that's true, but iirc there was some cheaper one
<pmjdebruijn> yes and no
<pmjdebruijn> cheaper means you lose accuracy
<knome> http://www.hughski.com/ open source
<pmjdebruijn> colormunki display is probably the best affordable instrument
<pmjdebruijn> knome: I've worked with Richard on that :)
<pmjdebruijn> I've been the sounding board to ColorHug development :D
<knome> ooh, nice
<pmjdebruijn> :D
<pmjdebruijn> but the sensor is a bit limited
<knome> the device is very interesting
<pmjdebruijn> it's supercool, but the accuracy isn't too great atm
<pmjdebruijn> depending on which display type you have
<pmjdebruijn> Richard is slow working on a ColorHug 2, which has a good chance of being much better
<knome> aha!
<pmjdebruijn> the guy behind GNOME Color Manager, colord, ColorHug is the same
<knome> will continue to keep an eye on it then
<pmjdebruijn> https://encrypted.pcode.nl/blog/2012/01/29/color-management-on-linux/
<pmjdebruijn> https://encrypted.pcode.nl/blog/2013/11/24/display-color-profiling-on-linux/
<pmjdebruijn> those are some general articles on the topic though
<knome> yeah, i have them on my todo list
<pmjdebruijn> :D
<pmjdebruijn> btw, just not to take too much great, Richard did pretty much all the work on the ColorHug though
<pmjdebruijn> I was _just_ the sounding board
<knome> ;)
<pmjdebruijn> not to give the impression that it was more than that
<pmjdebruijn> I knew Richard via GNOME Color Manager, for which I did a lot of testing
<slickymaster-job> knome: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/02/06/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t12:31 what do you think?
<slickymaster-job> bbl ->
<slickymaster-job> hey GridCube 
<GridCube> Hola slickymaster-job :)
<GridCube> :D you is an ubuntu member now
<slickymaster-job> o/
<GridCube> congrats
<slickymaster-job> yes, that's also possible to your kind words on my wiki
<slickymaster-job> thanks
<schproodle> slickymaster-job, "Official Ubuntu Membership means recognition of significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community." Congrats -- you earned it -- and thanks.
<slickymaster-job> schproodle: thanks for your kind words
<elfy> pulled the xfce core tests forward a week - give people a bit of a break before we're headlong into the Betas
<Drummit77> uhh..is this thing on?
<elfy> which thing?
<Unit193> Yes, the elfy is enabled.
<elfy> in reboot mode though
<slickymaster-job> enabled if near by the kettle
<drc> but he seg faults a lot
<elfy> :(
<Drummit77> awesome.  new to IRC and development.  Was interested in testing new LTS release.
<elfy> then you've come to just the right place 
<Drummit77>  thats a pretty quick reboot..
<elfy> it's not finished yet :p
<elfy> so what can we help you with about it 
<elfy> basically it is pretty stable - but if you need to not upgrade a current install - testing and checking it out in a vm works too
<Drummit77> :)  Roger that.  Ok...so...Where do I start?  What do I do?  I looked at the links, but honestly...confusing. And confused=mistakes=useless testing
<drc> start here http://xubuntu.org/news/help-us-test-xubuntu-14-04-lts/
<elfy> I'd say that the most important thing to worry about here is whether to install it virtually if possible or not
<Drummit77> thanks drc....i will check into that. Elfy...I have a laptop that I was going to run full install on for it.
<Drummit77> sorry...still learning ins and outs of irc
<elfy> that's ok - so is slickymaster-job 
<slickymaster-job> whatie ?!
<Drummit77> I had one of those in Thailand... :)
<slickymaster-job> ah ah ah lol
<elfy> :)
<drc> really?
<slickymaster-job> well, mostly the deep waters of irssi and screen
<Drummit77> maybe that was a masterslicky job.... idunno
<elfy> drc: probably not the best channel ... 
<elfy> Drummit77: ^^
<elfy> sorry drc :)
<Drummit77> sorry...I couldn't help it.
<elfy> Drummit77: anyway - if you're going to run a full install on then - go for it - the daily is at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds
<elfy> download, burn to something and install it 
<elfy> when you're installing you can also run through  an install test ( for 64 bit http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds/62677/testcases)
<elfy> also we test packages too at - http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/306/builds/55995/testcases
<Drummit77> ok...how do I send reports?
<elfy> do you have a launchpad account? 
<Drummit77> not yet..
<Drummit77> sure thats easily remedied
<elfy> you need one of those - then you can login to the trackers and report - simple as that
<slickymaster-job> knome: did you get a chance to take a look at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/02/06/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t12:31
<Drummit77> gottit.   Thanks!  Sorry again if I offended anyone..
<elfy> that's ok 
<slickymaster-job> another thing knome, how do you feel about changing the <section id="customizing-appearance"> tittle to <section id="customizing-desktop">?
<slickymaster-job> sorry knome, that's nor the correct section, what I mean is changing the <section id="customizing-wallpaper"> tittle to <section id="customizing-desktop">?
<pleia2> doh, knome beat me to the emailz
<knome> pleia2, heh :)
<Unit193> ochosi: Nag 'em?
<knome> where's slicky again
<Unit193> Reading the logs.
 * Unit193 waves
<pleia2> hehe
<Noskcaj> ochosi, https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/thunar/lp-1277149 is done
<Unit193> * Add git-xfdesktop-4.11.patch  xfdesktop?  Can you also slip ali1234's patch with the new bookmarks dir?  Or I can keep using out of stream still. :P
<Unit193> Speak of the devil.
<ali1234> Unit193: if that patch works well for you please comment on the bug tracker :)
<Noskcaj> Unit193, link to diff plz
<Unit193> Don't you already know it does?  All I had to do was rm ~/.gtk-bookmarks on the one computer.  Want anything more than "Works wonderfully for me."?  :P
<ali1234> no, that's fine. it's not for my benefit but for reviewers :)
<brainwash> is .gtk-bookmarks deprecated?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it was simply moved
<ali1234> it lives in .config now
<brainwash> ah, to .config
<brainwash> yeah :D
<Unit193> xfce 10627 10626
<ubottu> xfce bug 10627 in general "Use the new Gtk3 bookmarks location" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10627
<Unit193> Crap, what's my password?  Only ever logged in once.
<Unit193> Oh, by "username" it means email. :P
<ali1234> thanks
<Unit193> 'Welcome, thank you for the patch.
<schproodle>  /msg NickServ identify hunter46
<Unit193> I'm going to presume that's not real, because hunter46 and because you were already identified. :D
<Noskcaj> schproodle, woops
<schproodle> Noskcaj, can you see that?
<Noskcaj> yeah, you had a space at the front of the commands
<schproodle> I see that.
<schproodle> I meant to do that in freenode
<schproodle> guess I should change that eh?
<Noskcaj> Usually helps
<schproodle> Noskcaj, thanks.  Password is change.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, patch added to branch
<Unit193> Nice.
 * Unit193 won't even ask for xfce4-places-plugin. :P
<schproodle> Unit193, does one have to identify every time one connects?
<Unit193> schproodle: Manually, no.  You were already when you pasted that, so your client is already setup to do that.
<schproodle> Unit193, OK, that was my intention. But nickserv says "nickname is registered. Please choose...
<Unit193> elfy: #xubuntu!
<Unit193> (He's here too.)
<damiank> guys i saw in the mailing list that maybe you need help testing isos? i have free time on weekend if you want i can test both 32bit / 64 bit on AMDs i have here
<elfy> damiank: we're always testing trusty daily iso's - the last iso call itself was for 12.04.4 - that's all done now
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds
<damiank> ok elfy i download tonight so tomorrow i test.
<damiank> i'll send you the results later
<elfy> thanks :)
<damiank> np
<elfy> report to the tracker please :)
<damiank> yes
<elfy> thanks damiank - always wanting people to test for us :)
<damiank> i really love xubuntu, so i want to help in any way i can
<damiank> my main working pc is xubuntu 12.04 based and is very stable and works great
<elfy> excellent - well you get the dev mails - so you'll always get the mails from me
<Unit193> damiank: Don't forget to sync up before you test!
<Unit193> !zsync
<ubottu> Use zsync to update your Ubuntu CD image without needing to download the parts that didn't change. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ZsyncCdImage
<Unit193> Not seen much progress on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1060543 :/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1060543 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Additional Drivers is not discoverable in Quantal" [Critical,In progress]
<damiank> yes im subscribed to dev
<damiank> i'll do that
<damiank> and test tomorrow
<damiank> i have one partition with 12.04 which i almost never use  excepts for tests, i will use that to test update
<elfy> if you've got a 12.04 update it and then run an upgrade test on it :)
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds/57247/testcases or http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds/57248/testcases
<damiank> ok perfect
<damiank> one question, 14.04 will work with the old athlon xp?
<elfy> I'd not know offhand - ram?
<damiank> 2gb
<elfy> I'd install it ;)
<schproodle> damiank, If you are interested in testing, it would be more than worthwhile to use virtualbox.
<elfy> schproodle: damiank has hardware to test with - always better than virtual if possible
<damiank> i have a virtualbox setup here, probably i will test an install before upgrading
<schproodle> elfy, I could try that with another machine.  Vbox makes me lazy eh.
<damiank> elfy: anyway my hardware isnt a great thing
<damiank> i have 2 pcs, both old
<damiank> one much older, the athlon xp
<elfy> damiank: even so - hardware is going to better than virtual, and if it's getting on a bit - that can help us see if we need to change our minimum specs :)
<damiank> ok
<schproodle> elfy, are there ways to setup vbox so that there is less of a disadvantage compared to hardware?
<Noskcaj> schproodle, not really
<knome> schproodle, not really.
<knome> Noskcaj, hah
<Noskcaj> lol
<elfy> schproodle: not really ... :p
<Noskcaj> damiank, Plus lubuntu and mini.iso always need testing if it turns out you can't run xubuntu
<elfy> however - what we want here is people testing for us ... 
<damiank> Noskcaj, thanks for the offer, but i like xfce
<Noskcaj> elfy, yes, but testing  different flavour is better than no testing at all
<Noskcaj> That is my only point
<schproodle> What things does vbox usually goof-up?
<damiank> i have been using xfce for many years actually
<elfy> and my point is that it's hard enough to get people testing for us as it is 
<knome> schproodle, it doesn't. hardware just allows us to see if real hardware works
<knome> schproodle, virtualbox is always an environment we can expect, so no surprises re: hardware there
<Unit193> Generally if I have a question about support for the hardware, I use grml-rescueboot from the repos and just boot the new ISO, checking to see if most/all things work, then reboot into the system and do the upgrade.
<knome> schproodle, hardware tests allow us to see if more moving parts (different hardware) potentially breaks something that looks unrelated
<Noskcaj> i.e. broken graphics or un-supported wifi cards
<damiank> well, the graphics on the older pc is always a pain, its a geforce2
<damiank> on the neweer one i have a new radeon
<Unit193> Heh, mine is even more fun. :P
<damiank> ?
<Unit193> Ooooold graphics, got a warning couple releases back about support being limited at best. :P
<schproodle> I didn't understand how much vbox is distinct from my physical host.
<schproodle> Been using vbox for three days. :)
<elfy> that's ok schproodle - majority of testing I do is with vbox 
<damiank> guys i have to go, we'll talk tomorrow bye
<schproodle> There must be a way to boot a computer from an iso on a hdd eh.
<elfy> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/ISOBoot
<elfy> not done it for some time
<schproodle> I just discovered zsync.  Lotsa fun. I have done 39 reports on Daily i386 and amd64.
<Unit193> !info grml-rescueboot
<ubottu> grml-rescueboot (source: grml-rescueboot): Integrates Grml ISO booting into GRUB. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.4.3 (saucy), package size 6 kB, installed size 62 kB
<schproodle> Just passed the stickymaster eh.  ;)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, when do you think you'll merge lightdm greeter from debian?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: we're going to release 1.8 this weekend, we'll pull it from debian at that point
<Noskcaj> ok
<bluesabre> thanks for keeping on top of things
<brainwash> 1.8 already? with or without indicators?
<Noskcaj> Is there anything else assigned to me for the cycle?
<bluesabre> brainwash: with indicators
<brainwash> great
<Noskcaj> I'll package the indicator-gtk3 stuff next weekend if there aren
<Noskcaj> 't any releases
<brainwash> right, we really need the panel gtk indicators too
<brainwash> gtk3
<bluesabre> cool, I might have a new menulibre and mugshot release in a week or two, but those are immediate items
<Noskcaj> ok
<brainwash> bluesabre: the greeter indicator branch did change the .conf a bit, now you have to enable all the indicators/menu explicitly
<brainwash> so we need to ship an updated lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf for xubuntu
<bluesabre> yeah, more stuff to add to the branches :)
<brainwash> still some minor issue remain unsolved (clock not perfectly centered and occasionally 1px free space between the right screen and the last indicator/menuitem)
<brainwash> does 1.8 also mean feature freeze?
<bluesabre> brainwash: it might be a good idea to create some bug reports if there are not some already
<bluesabre> I'm basically going into bug-fixing/merging mode tomorrow morning :)
<brainwash> thought that ochosi would fix these issues in time :D
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> so did I
<bluesabre> ochosi :<
<brainwash> and he cannot verify the 1px issue I think :/
<bluesabre> do you have a screenshot of that issue, I'm not quite sure what you mean by it
<brainwash> move the cursor to the top right corner and click
<brainwash> it should activate the menuitem/indicator
<brainwash> but it does not in all cases, depending on screen resolution and panel content
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> thats odd
<brainwash> the gtk button box uses the 'edge' layout and spreads the 3 items across the panel, but it leaves 1px space sometimes on the right side
<brainwash> "miscalulation"
<brainwash> and I suggested to add homogeneous=true to the panel to center the clock, but it could break the layout on small resolutions
<brainwash> not quite sure how to enable it dynamically based on the actual needed space
<bluesabre> so, the clock is not always centered when there is enough space available?
<brainwash> no, usually you got the hostname on the left side and the 4 menuitems on the right
<brainwash> and won't notice it
<brainwash> but after adding many indicators you do
<brainwash> so there is more stuff on the right side, pushing the clock a bit to the left
<bluesabre> ah, I see
<brainwash> minor stuff, very low priority
<brainwash> that's why I did not file any report yet
<bluesabre> I had opted out of using homogenous because if one side is extra long, it forces everything over (causes the panel window to resize)
<brainwash> right
<brainwash> you can actually mark child widgets as non_homogeneous.. but this did not work for me
<brainwash> so the hostname and indicator area would be even
<brainwash> I think that's how it should work
<bluesabre> hm, I might experiment with that a bit tomorrow then as well
<brainwash> ok thanks :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-08
<knome> added some things in the xubuntu team calendar
<knome> if anything weird pops up (like finnish events), let me know
<knome> i'm trying out lightning with thunderbird for calendar stuff
<knome> elfy, pling
<knome> elfy, 12.04.5?
<elfy> bah
<elfy> don't see the point personally - would prefer to get people moved to 14.04 :)
<knome> well some people can't (no PAE support)
<elfy> then they really need to be thinking seriously - and a few months of extra support is probably a cushion they shouldn't rely on having
<knome> well it's not even extra support really
<knome> and it doesn't really affect existing installations
<knome> .5 is just an updated installation media
<knome> (basically)
<knome> the updates will pretty much land in 12.04 anyway for users why have a system installed
<elfy> that they'd have anyway by updating?
<knome> (unless they don't update their systems, which isn't really a good idea either)
<elfy> because if that's the case I really don't see the point in 3 or 4 people running round to test a point release for that
<elfy> if people don't update their systems then ... 
<knome> that's a fair point of view
<knome> the other fair one is that by that time, 14.04 is out
<knome> so there's no reason to choose the other LTS unless you 1) don't have PAE support 2) you have a really old machine with so low specs that it can only run 12.04 but not 14.04
<elfy> posted to the list again
 * elfy is writing a thing for the blog
<knome> goodie
<elfy> you haven't read the draft yet :p
<knome> hah
<elfy> "That QA guy KEEPS telling us to report things"
<elfy> knome - any reason why the http://xubuntu.org/contribute/ link to this channel trys to do so with Mibbit? wouldn't freenode chat be better?
<elfy> knome: have a look when you've got 10 minutes
<Mudkitty> Hi New Ubuntu user here. Wish I had started using it long ago!
<Mudkitty> I have been programming for some time now but in VB6, VB.NET along with other Microshaft apps
<damiank> guys  i'm a bit desperate: i just lost my job. If any of you needs a web designer/php coder please send me a private msg. I can work remotely. Thanks! Here situation is really bad...
<damiank> elfy: i just downloaded iso, will try later today
<Mudkitty> Damiank, I am in south Florida. Will keep my eyes and ears open down here for you and I wish you best of luck!
<damiank> Mudkitty thanks!  i'm in Argentina, but i can work remotely
<knome> elfy, well they are irc:// links
<Mudkitty> www.indeed.com/q-Web-Developer-l-Florida-jobs.htmlâ is a good site to check out
<damiank> Mudkitty thanks!
<elfy> knome: yea - but is freenode allowing mibbit now? not looked for an age - at one point it didn't work
<schproodle> Trusty Daily appears to be unchanged from yesterday.  Any point in testing?
<schproodle> According to zsync anyway
<schproodle> and looking inside the iso -- date o7
<schproodle> 07 February for version 20140208
<schproodle> RE Trusty Daily above -- My error -- need to use 'current' instead of  'Version' in zsync command
<schproodle> That is version number e.g., 20140208
<schproodle> Is there a way to get a larger display resolution for xubuntu in vbox -- rebooting the vm after installation seems to default to 640.480
<knome> schproodle, install the guest additions
<schproodle> knome, this one? guest additions iso image for VirtualBox from synaptic ?
<knome> schproodle, check the media menu.
<schproodle> knome, a 'media menu' in vbox? 
<knome> schproodle, when you are running the virtual machine, you have the menu to attach/remove media, like cd-roms
<knome> schproodle, check that menu, it has an item to install the guest additions
<schproodle> knome, the package available from repository: virtualbox-guest-additions.iso  N.B. "The guest
<schproodle> systems then can mount the iso and install the guest additions from there."
<knome> schproodle, that's one option, but vbox can make one more step automatically.
<schproodle> knome, while running,  OK
<knome> you are free to do it either way, but will end up with the same result
<schproodle> knome, under Devices it has "Install guest additions" Host-d
<knome> that's it,.
<schproodle> knome. dont need the package?
<knome> schproodle, no.
<schproodle> okeeleedokeelee :)  ...
<schproodle> knome, vbox has its own world eh
<schproodle> knome, does that need to be done for each vm?
<knome> yep.
<knome> schproodle, though it will only need to fetch the ISO once.
<schproodle> knome, Forgive me.  What does it do?  Still have low resolution.
<knome> schproodle, once you've downloaded the iso, mount it and run the VBoxLinuxAdditions.run file from the media
<schproodle> knome, voxaddtion cd is on the desktop
<schproodle> knome, Done.  What needs to done next to increaser resolution.  I have rebooted the vm.
<knome> schproodle, whatever you'd usually do to increase the resolution.
<schproodle> knome, xubuntu settings manager for display is fixed at 640x480.  Must I do something in vbox?
<schproodle> knome, I gave the vm for video memory. 
<knome> sorry, but i need to focus on something else. try asking in #vbox
<schproodle> knome, Thanks
<elfy> dashing in and out but, schproodle - you should just be able to resize the vbox window and it will autoresize now
<elfy> if it doesn't then it's not installed properly
<schproodle> elfy, the compilation fo the guest stuff seems to have failed -- no kernel headers
<schproodle> elfy, auto resize is greyed out on the vm view menu
<schproodle> elfy, I will try to install kernel headers eh
<schproodle> elfy, headers are already installed on vm running 14.04
<schproodle> elfy, I suppose installation of guest additions might not be working for 14.04
<elfy> schproodle: I get the same error about headers, it still works for me in 1404, I tend to install them from /media
<elfy> not really here
<knome> bbl ->
 * pmjdebruijn had the whiskermenu icon going black bug
<schproodle> elfy, Ate some lunch. Now it works eh. ;)
<brainwash> pmjdebruijn: you should bump the upstream bug report :)
<schproodle> elfy, not autoresize but bigger default.
<Unit193> knome: You can also install from jockey.
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-devel
<brainwash> "Xubuntu Developers does not use Launchpad."
<knome> ;)
<knome> that's not really the right team
<brainwash> so is this a valid package maintainer?
<knome> -dev is.
<brainwash> see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-terminal
<brainwash> just noticed that
<knome> sure.
<knome> just a mistake probably.
<knome> should be xubuntu-dev
<brainwash> should it be changed? :D
<knome> probably
<Unit193> knome: It's because of the email, merge it into something else if you can.
<knome> seems i can't
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-09
<knome> pmjdebruijn, dispcal: Error - icoms - usb_is_usb_portno: port number 1 out of range 1 - 0
<knome> pmjdebruijn, wait, even that needs the colorimeter?
<knome> pmjdebruijn, yeah, that's not mentioned in the article
<damiank> hi knome
<damiank> hows everything
<knome> damiank, hey
<knome> fine
<knome> ircing in the bed
<damiank> cool
<knome> not really, bad ergonomy ;)
<damiank> i had to delay a bit the testings due that today i was told that i had no longer my stable job :(
<damiank> so i spend the whole day thinking what to do
<knome> sorry to hear that
<damiank> np, something will come
<damiank> tonight i will probably test the 32bit iso updating my 12.04lts
<knome> yep, things will sort out eventually in a way or another
<damiank> yeah
<knome> and good luck finding a new better one :)
<damiank> yeah
<damiank> i usually find jobs on elance so i will do that for now
<knome> :)
<damiank> if you happen to know anyone that needs a web coder just let me know
<damiank> in the meantime i will talk later to see if i can help with xubuntu page
<damiank> to keep me busy :)
<knome> damiank, have you seen the new staging site?
<damiank> nope yet
<knome> re: web coder, well i know some people but they're my clients, so no luck for you ;(
<damiank> :)
<damiank> i can take small jobs to help you if you want
<damiank> no need to be a full time
<knome> heh, thanks, but no thanks
<damiank> :)
<damiank> regarding the updates of the iso, any recommendation?
<damiank> i will test update on a amd athlon xp with 2gb ram
<damiank> an old geforce2 card
<damiank> will it work?
<damiank> which is min reqs for 14.04?
<knome> should work
<knome> the staging site: http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/
<damiank> i like it
<damiank> knome you know the exact requirements for xubuntu 14.04?
<damiank> im worried the geforce2 card doesnt work
<damiank> on 12.10 i had problems so i went back to 12.04 on this pc
<knome> the hardware as is should be sufficient, whether the card itself has problems with 14.04, no idea
<knome> that's one of the reasons we run tests...
<damiank> i know
<damiank> ok i'll test tonight then i let you know
<damiank> if there are problems i have a full 12.04 backup here ;)
<knome> that's sane.
<damiank> yeah
<damiank> ok im off to eat something i'll be back later
<knome> bon appetit
<damiank> thanks
<ochosi> Noskcaj: cause you asked me a while ago, no, i don't know of any other thunar patches we might need atm
<ochosi> but getting that one would be nice
<ochosi> (for the wallpaper-plugin)
<Noskcaj> ochosi, ok. The MP is up
<ochosi> what does MP stand for again? (other than military police, member of parliament, ...)
<Unit193> Military Police is right, they've put a blockade up.
<ochosi> i see :)
<Unit193> Merge proposal.
<Unit193> I like my other answer better though.
<ochosi> hm, i'm more used to MR i guess
<elfy> mmm - just got some updates in trusty - if anyone else gets some - and doesn't have keyboard set to US - can they check to see if it is set to US afterwards
<Migou> Hello everybody
<brainwash_> accidentally opened a document with abiword - the app which constantly breaks the ruler in every dev release of xubuntu
<brainwash_> can anyone confirm that not only the rulers are broken, but also the top document view are when scrolled?
<brainwash_> document view area
<brainwash_> it flickers for me
<brainwash_> bug 1261203
<ubottu> bug 1261203 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword top ruler hidden by gray area on first open" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261203
<elfy> I've confirmed one of those already 
<elfy> I'm sure 
<brainwash_> so you see the top part flickering?
<brainwash_> when you scroll the document
<elfy> nope no flickering - that might just be you
<brainwash_> interesting
<brainwash_> the flicker might be subtle for you, but the actual cause is related to the ruler glitch
<elfy> though I rarely use it - so if it's intermittent I'd not notice
<brainwash_> I suggest increasing the priority of this bug
<elfy> and tbf not very interested in it - something breaks with it all the time
<brainwash_> abiword is a core app and this glitch is way too annoying, it makes the user look for another word processor
<elfy> it might well be a core app - but I'm beginning to just join everyone in else in not caring about qa
<elfy> wasting my time 
<brainwash_> speaking of importance level.. people bumped tons of reports once again
<brainwash_> assigning low importance
<brainwash_> very helpful :/
<elfy> no - someone decided to do a bug day and just wandered about worrying about ubuntu stuff
<elfy> anyway - nipper is here - bbl
<brainwash_> :)
<elfy> brainwash_: so this really annoying flicker bug - I assume that someone else must have reported it :)
<brainwash_> elfy: happens when I open the HackingOnThunar.odt
<brainwash_> did not try other documents yet
<brainwash_> empty document with several pages and random content does not seem to be affected
<elfy> is that a local file to you?
<elfy> found it 
<brainwash_> a random odt I intended to open with libreoffice.. but then ended up with abiword
<elfy> brainwash_: sort of flickering when it goes to new page if dragging the scrollbar up and down 
<brainwash_> top area, right?
<elfy> where the ruler would be
<brainwash_> I'll try to do some debugging and then add information to the existing report
<elfy> :)
<brainwash_> really wish that we would have switched to libreoffice writer + calc
<elfy> well we haven't :)
<elfy> and no-one seems to be coming forward with a spec for changing it either so I doubt we will
<brainwash_> the only blocker was the available iso space I think
<elfy> no idea I'm afraid, I really don't worry about it that much - I just install it myself 
<elfy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-January/009615.html
<elfy> was the last time it got airplay brainwash_ :)
<brainwash_> so hopefully we can make abiword work properly before final release
<brainwash_> ootb experience is very important
<elfy> I agree - but I've only ever seen one person talking about this flicker thing :p
<brainwash_> it's new in trusty
<elfy> anyway - bbl
<brainwash_> and apparently our tester do not test it properly :P
<brainwash_> I discovered it by accident
<brainwash_> not sure if the testing guide asks the user to open a document (.odt?) in abiword
<elfy> why not go and look 
<brainwash_> I have no clue, never bothered with iso testing :(
<brainwash_> so I got nothing bookmarked
<brainwash_> basically I use trusty and discover more than enough bugs by simply using it
<ganglere> speaking of iso testing, anyone know why test drive shows no available isos?
<ganglere> nevermind, appearently I have to choose a release now
<knome> bluesabre, thanks for the merge request.
<bluesabre> knome: yup
<bluesabre> FF in 1.5 weeks
<bluesabre> micahg: please review the merge requests to the seed and default-settings
<knome> bluesabre, can you see the -features blueprint and look if there's something else we should/can change in the seed now
<knome> bluesabre, should be a (at least near-)exhaustive list in the whiteboard
<bluesabre> yeah, trying to get all that together now
<knome> ok, thanks
<knome> while you're at it, please check if the blueprint work item statuses are up-to-date
<bluesabre> these look up to date
<bluesabre> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-features
<bluesabre> micahg: MRs are at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-features and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu
<elfy> bluesabre: what's happening with getting the menu button property edit thing changed to menulibre?
<bluesabre> elfy: I
<elfy> bluesabre: I
<elfy> too :p
<bluesabre> ok good
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I'll work on getting a patch in for that today or tomorrow
<bluesabre> we need micahg to update the seed before that happens though
<bluesabre> unless we have somebody with access to that?
<elfy> I don't know 
<knome> ~ubuntu-core-dev :P
<bluesabre> today begins the daily pings :)
<elfy> I suppose at the same time the xscreensaver/light-locker thing could be done?
<bluesabre> yeah, we've got that MR in as well
<elfy> ok 
 * elfy wonders why he's getting pinged to review this stuff ... would have more chance translating the Russian War and Peace into Cantonese
<knome> lol
<bluesabre> elfy: I added you since you're the head of testing
<knome> elfy, you asked for information... ;)
<bluesabre> so your approval means everything is A-OK!
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<bluesabre> elfy, knome: have we decided on whiskermenu vs. xfce-menu?
<elfy> I'm pretty sure we've not decided on anything much lately
<knome> bluesabre, we're currently working on it with ochosi
<bluesabre> ok
<knome> well not like *right now*, but will land soonish
<ochosi> should be finished asap, i hope tomorrow
<knome> or at least be ready for voting/approval
<elfy> ochosi: ooh nice :)
<bluesabre> good good :D
<ochosi> if we only have one proposed layout, i'm not sure voting is a good idea...
<knome> ochosi, well, vote for the new or old layout
<ochosi> anyway, feel free to check out my proposal in the whiskermenu wiki page
<ochosi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Whiskermenu
<ochosi> i also argue there why i'd change what i would change
<ochosi> gotta go, bbl
<bluesabre> ochosi: that's a good proposal
<elfy> ochosi: and I'd agree with bluesabre there
<bluesabre> knome: have we packaged the community wallpapers?
<elfy> bluesabre: so ... I have tried and tried to get a launcher to appear in a menu using menulibre and I am failing miserably to do more than shout a lot 
<bluesabre> elfy: in the toplevel, or in a category?
<elfy> anywhere but in menulibre :(
<elfy> can't even get an empty to one appear
<bluesabre> I'm assuming that you're hitting save when you add it?
<elfy> yep
<bluesabre> does the filename shown at the bottom of the launcher exist?
<elfy> I've not got it open now - I moved on lol
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> if you test it again, please note the following
<bluesabre> when you save it, the filename that is displayed at the bottom of the window should be updated based on the new filename.  Navigate to that file and make sure it exists
<bluesabre> also, try menulibre -v from the terminal
<elfy> ok
<bluesabre> so far, I've had issues with creating toplevel items (i.e. 1st menu level), but everything else works for me in several DEs in several distros, so I'll need to know whats going on :)
<brainwash_> ochosi: can we move the whisker menu search bar and action buttons to the top? this way the user can access them faster from the panel
<elfy> mmm - well I can't for instance add a launcher to Accessories - it just adds the launcher to between accessories and the next menu group
<bluesabre> yeah, you can use the arrow buttons to move it into that menu (if the menu is expanded)
<elfy> aaah - got that
<elfy> bluesabre: ok - got further this time :)
<bluesabre> oh goodie
<elfy> but - even though menulibre thinks the launcher is in Accessories - it shows in System only 
<elfy> but it IS showing there :)
<elfy> biab
<bluesabre> you may have to save the launcher again once you move it
<bluesabre> btw, I am taking this feedback to improve upon current features ;)
<knome> brainwash_, did you read the wikipage ochosi linked?
<elfy> bluesabre: saved a few times - won't appear in accessories - and is effectively a copy of the existing term launcher 
 * elfy sees someone setting bug priority to high on something that's fix released and wonders why bother
<bluesabre> elfy: any output in the terminal?
<brainwash_> knome: did I miss anything? :/
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<elfy> bluesabre: sorry - there was a bunch of output, but I'm right in the middle of a bunch - I'll have another go later and pastebin the output - with screenshots and notes to - so you can see exactly what's happening here
<bluesabre> elfy: excellent
<bluesabre> be sure to do menulibre -v too
<elfy> yep
<knome> brainwash_, yes you did.
<elfy> we all had cake
<brainwash_> but the cake is a lie
 * elfy asks belly - belly says brainwash_ lies
<jjfrv8> knome, ping
<jjfrv8> knome, I may not be able to stick around so I'll post some of my questions and maybe you, or others, can enlighten me
<jjfrv8> I've been working on the MenuLibre section of the Settings and Preferences chapter and then I saw the discussion here from earlier today
<jjfrv8> I'm confused about the role of menulibre, especially if we decide to go with whiskermenu instead of xfce-menu
<jjfrv8> as it stands now, it seems we need menulibre to edit the applications menu because alacarte is broken...
<jjfrv8> but if we go with whiskermenu, I would think most of the basic editing functionality is built in there and menulibre would only be needed for really advanced stuff
<jjfrv8> have I got that completely wrong?
<elfy> you'd still need something to add new launchers to whisker menu I think
<jjfrv8> bbl
<knome> jjfrv8, yah, menulibre is still needed to edit the whiskermenu as well
<elfy> knome: there's a draft doobywotsit at the blog for someone to look at 
<knome> doobywhat
<knome> i'll look at it later today when i'm on my desktop machine
<elfy> okey doke
<knome> forestpiskie, edited the article
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-02
<brainwash> bluesabre: can you please look at bug 1395547 ?
<ubottu> bug 1395547 in xfce4-volumed (Ubuntu) "xfsettingsd and xfce4-volumed using a lot of CPU after screen lock / unlock" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1395547
<brainwash> some strace snippet has been added, so maybe you have an idea how to debug this issue further
<eric_the_idiot> bluesabre, can I have you test a patch for: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9935131/ ?
<eric_the_idiot> the patch is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10015368/
<ochosi> oh hey micahg 
<micahg> hi
<ochosi> how's it going? and wb!
<micahg> heh, snow day :)
<ochosi> right :)
<ochosi> other than that, has your work slowed down a bit?
<knome> hey ochosi, micahg 
<micahg> ochosi: sort of
<micahg> hi knome 
<ochosi> micahg: any plans on being back for xubuntu development?
<micahg> I would like to, probably need a little more time for that though
<micahg> BTW, got 14.04 up and running on a machine, it's very polished and lots of awesome
<ochosi> nice, that's both good to hear
<brainwash> eric_the_idiot: how does one trigger this bug?
<brainwash> changing some "metadata"
<brainwash> eric_the_idiot: some user with this desktop http://media.cdn.ubuntu-de.org/forum/attachments/58/05/7326138-Dekstop.png reports that the icon positions are reset on every login with 4.11.8, but not with 4.11.6
<micahg> sigh, still no Xfce 4.12
<elfy> they were waiting for you :)
<elfy> hi micahg - good to see you aboutish 
<Unit193> Good indeed.
<ochosi> evening everyone
<slickymaster> hey ochosi 
<Noskcaj_> micahg: Would you have time to vote on my MOTU and xubuntu-packageset application?
<micahg> Noskcaj: I can take a look
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-03
<Noskcaj> thanks micahg
<Unit193> Long gone, mate.
<ochosi> not that anybody has noticed i guess, but spinners in all our gtk3 apps are broken
<ochosi> i already pushed a branch for greybird and added the icon needed for it to work to elementary-xfce in git
<elfy> brainwash: bug 1416843 
<ubottu> bug 1416843 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Indicator element appears over the panel, not above" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1416843
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/3sr4Wd7.png
<elfy> if you happen to click transmission in the panel and have shaky finger and click twice - you will in fact hit quit for it :)
<brainwosh> elfy, ok.. but it works fine here. the menu never covers my panel
<elfy> seems to work ok for me if panel is at top
<brainwosh> elfy, it happens if you uncheck "reserve space on border" in the panel settings
<elfy> mine's on intellihide currently so that option's not available
<brainwosh> I guess it's a valid report after all
<elfy> definitley an issue
<elfy> yea :)
<elfy> I'll comment
<elfy> I'll do an upstream one too if it's needed
<brainwosh> thanks, please mention that it's best to forward this bug upstream :)
<brainwosh> heh :D
<elfy> brainwosh: bug report against xfce4-panel or? 
<brainwosh> xfce4-indicator-plugin, because only the indicator menus are affected
<brainwosh> other panel items are fine
<elfy> not there to report against
<elfy> nvm
<brainwosh> I'm not sure if the menu placement is affected by the indicator-plugin, maybe it's something in the indicator code
<elfy> ok reported and LP updated 
<brainwosh> thanks
<elfy> at least I don't have to do a "It'll just get ignored why bother" :)
<brainwosh> it's a rare case I'd guess. one has to move the panel to the bottom and configure it to not reserve space (so windows can go behind the panel)
<elfy> brainwosh: not so rare - especially if we start giving people intellihide 
<elfy> people have to be expected to not like the defaults :)
<elfy> wb cjbrambo 
<elfy> cjbrambo is rare - someone who wants to help us with testing \o/ 
<cjbrambo> Hi hi
<slickymasterWork> elfy, FYI http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ is up now
<slickymasterWork> bah wrong channel
<cjbrambo> ^ I think that leads to an answer to an upcoming question of mine.
<elfy> slickymasterWork: zsync is still being an issue here
<elfy> bbs
<cjbrambo> I'm currently on 14.10
<cjbrambo> Never mind http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20150202/
<elfy> cjbrambo: in short - because I'm still not really here :)
<elfy> you can do one of 3 things
<elfy> upgrade that install to 15.04
<slickymasterWork> bbl ->
<elfy> install 15.04 to a seperate partition
<elfy> install 15.04 in a virt environment of some sort 
<elfy> we'll help you once you know which you're prefer to use :)
<elfy> I'm in and out for the next hour or so, but will be back later
<elfy> knome pleia2 - I never know who's got control of social stuff - but could someone tweet or f/b or google the mail for trusty point testing please :)
<pleia2> will do momentarily
<elfy> thanks awfully :)
<cjbrambo> I'm fine with upgrading. 
<pleia2> all posted
<pleia2> I'll do one reminding people about QA for stickers soon too, now that it's february
<drc> <slickymasterWork> elfy, FYI http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ is up now  It may be up, but it's really really slow and in the end I get 0 byte files (tyried twice now).  Anyone else having these problems?
<drc> BTW, it's not my 'net connection :)
<drc> I should note it's slow in display and refreshing, not DL'ing.
<drc> but as I get a 0 byte file "slow" is relative :)
<drc> OK, got a iso and md5 matches.  Not sure what happened before.
<cjbrambo> Not off to a great start http://i.imgur.com/wP6wOkn.png
<brainwosh_> cjbrambo, bug 1409555
<ubottu> bug 1409555 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "drop extras.ubuntu.com" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1409555
<elfy> cjbrambo: that normal - just disable them , other software in software and updates - independent
<elfy> cjbrambo: how's it going ?
<cjbrambo> It's upgrading.
<elfy> nice - which method you using? 
<cjbrambo> using the gui software updater
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> oh great :|
<elfy> seems that the .2 version of trusty has ibus in it 
<elfy> thought we got rid of that 
<cjbrambo> elfy, the upgrade to 15.04 took quite nicely.
<elfy> cjbrambo: excellent - this your main machine? using it a lot? 
<cjbrambo> I use it a lot for development. But I always keep it so that I won't miss anything off it if something goes awry.
<elfy> we call that exploratory testing, so if you use one of the default apps - for anything, please have a look at the package test for it
<elfy> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/327/builds/82959/testcases
<elfy> say you used mousepad - find that there ^^ 
<elfy> and have a look - then you can report bugs (if you've found and reported it to LP)
<elfy> and pass or fail 
<elfy> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/327/builds/82959/testcases/1557/results
<elfy> ochosi: just so you know - the .2 for trusty is about - and I have critically failed 32 and 64 bit as we seem to have ibus there again and I couldn't login with my password using US keyboard
<brainwosh> login on the greeter screen?
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> now I can 
<cjbrambo> and would it be most helpful for me to just start at the top of the test cases and work my way down?
<elfy> cjbrambo: no need to do that :)
<cjbrambo> heh even better!
<elfy> we set that tracker up at cycle start, then changed what we wanted to do 
<elfy> if you USE one of those apps - you can report against it - better to really use something than just run through a basic testcase
<cjbrambo> Gotcha
<elfy> brainwosh: mmm, not sure what's going on there - not got time tonight to do more
<elfy> it'll have to wait till tomorrow now
<elfy> cjbrambo: nice to see you - thanks for helping us all - and that means you as well if you use Xubuntu
<cjbrambo> no problem. Been looking for a way to get involved with open source. Happy to help
<elfy> :)
<elfy> this is a pretty painfree way to do that :)
<cjbrambo> Why I chose it!
<elfy> Why I chose it too :p
<elfy> and that coding is all a foreign land to me ... 
<cjbrambo> I'm new to programming. So, not much I can do there
<elfy> :)
<elfy> well - I'll see you next time - I'm off for the night now
<elfy> others are about off and on if you're still here later 
<cjbrambo> Great. I'll through questions out when they arise
<ochosi> elfy: hm, crap, that sounds bad. guess we gotta figure out what pulls it in
<ochosi> elfy: and meh, that indicator bug sucks a bit. i'm not sure whether that's fixed best in the panel or actually in the indicator-plugin...
<ochosi> but it could be an indicator-problem, since they are at the top of the screen in ubuntu too
<ochosi> maybe there's some code related to that, but this is just a (very) wild guess
<ochosi> ali1234: wanna take a peek at that ^, aka https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1416843
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1416843 in Xfce4 Indicator Plugin "Indicator element appears over the panel, not above" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ali1234> i don't understand it
<ochosi> it's pretty easy to reproduce
<ochosi> move your panel to the lower end of the screen, set it to autohide or intellihide and click an indicator
<ali1234> can't reproduce
<ochosi> in vivid?
<ali1234> no in 14.04
<ochosi> oh right
<ali1234> with the dev ppa
<ochosi> hm, so what panel version is that then
<ochosi> lemme check
<ali1234> 4.11.2
<ali1234> there is actually a gap between the panel and the menu
<ochosi> with dev-ppa you're referring to -staging?
<ali1234> but only at the bottom of the screen
<ali1234> i guess yeah
<ochosi> ok, that should be fine
<ali1234> this is probably related to the struts bug
<ochosi> so you're on the same panel version
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i thought so too
<ali1234> which has been fixed
<ochosi> but it seems to happen exclusively with indicators
<ali1234> although that should never cause an overlap
<ochosi> maybe they broke something in the indicators then
<ali1234> yeah because indicators are gtk3
<ali1234> gtk2 menus aren't affected
<ali1234> it is a gtk3 regression
<ochosi> yeha, i remember now
<ochosi> the weird thing is that with a panel at the top of the screen everything is totally fine and expected
<ochosi> it happens only at the bottom
<ali1234> anyway, struts but only affects multimonitor
<ali1234> it's almost certainly related somehow
<ali1234> ah
<ali1234> i know
<ochosi> wtf
<ochosi> it also works on left and right
<ochosi> *only* bottom is broken
<ali1234> so you can reproduce?
<ochosi> yeah
<ali1234> okay
<ali1234> i need to look somehting up
<ali1234> hold on a minute
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> i'll fix something else meanwhile
<ali1234> bug 1397470
<ubottu> bug 1397470 in ubuntu-mate "Bottom Panel Covering Bottom Of Windows (Strut Issue?)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1397470
<ali1234> have a look at that bug
<ali1234> and then run the commands in it and pastebin the output for me
<ochosi> _NET_WORKAREA(CARDINAL) = 0, 0, 1920, 1200, 0, 0, 1920, 1200, 0, 0, 1920, 1200
<ochosi> _NET_DESKTOP_GEOMETRY(CARDINAL) = 3200, 1200
<ali1234> hah
<ali1234> you have no struts at all
<ochosi> http://dpaste.com/3YD1R5X
<ochosi> yeah, the panel is set to intelligent hiding
<ochosi> consequently, no struts
<ali1234> okay so can you somehow make the panel unhide while running those commands?
<ali1234> without setting it to never hide of course
<ochosi> ah sure
<ali1234> sleep 5 && command - then move mouse over the bottom of the screen
<ochosi> it wasn't hidden though
<ochosi> my terminal window wasn't maximized
<ali1234> oh, intelligent? okay
<ochosi> so with intelligent hiding, the panel is shown
<ali1234> so then the problem is that the panel doesn't set struts when it unhides itself
<ochosi> but still no struts
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i guess that must be it
<ali1234> simples
<ochosi> i have no idea how to handle that though
<ali1234> report a bug :P
<ali1234> 13.10 didn't have gtk3 did it?
<ali1234> indicators i mean
<ali1234> or did it?
<ochosi> easy, elfy has already done that: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11501
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11501 in General "Panel at bottom, indicator covers panel" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> no, 14.04 was the first to have gtk3 indicators iirc
<ali1234> right, so that's why
<ali1234> it's gtk3 again
<ali1234> the thing is that the panel shouldn't set struts when it autohides
<ochosi> hmm
<ali1234> it would make all the windows it covers resize (possibly)
<ali1234> certainly maximized ones
<ochosi> thing is, i never touched any of the struts code and didn't test the indicators in all layout positions obviously (when i was fixing intelligent hiding, i mean)
<ochosi> yeah
<ali1234> i mean, autohide panel covers maximized windows right? so it should appear behind menus too
<ochosi> so how can we work around that then?
<ali1234> absolutely no idea
<ali1234> i don't think we even should
<ochosi> the sucky thing is that it works just fine in gtk2
<ochosi> i guess i haven't really understood what gtk3 is messing up there
<ali1234> they rewrote the menu placement code
<ochosi> hm, ok
<ali1234> i can't even reproduce this but i suspect that if you boot up with the panel set to not autohide, then the struts just stay the way they were always set
<brainwosh> elfy, should the daily xubuntu trusty image include stuff from -proposed?
<ali1234> struts and all the netwm stuff is horrible
<ali1234> so badly broken
<ali1234> i mean it's quite simple really
<ochosi> hm, yeah, just tried that (restarted the panel), that didn't work. although i see why it could've
<ali1234> too simple really
<ochosi> so no tricks/hacks we can add to the indicator-plugin to behave more like gtk2?
<ochosi> (not that i consider this a huge issue, it's actually rather a corner-case)
<ochosi> so with autohide it works fine for you in 14.04?
<ali1234> i wouldn't say fine
<ali1234> it is actually too high
<ali1234> wait that is because i have two panels on two monitors
<ali1234> let me retest
<ochosi> my first instinct was that it's a regression introduced by intelligent hiding, but then again, no struts code was touched
<ali1234> no, it isn't
<ali1234> it has always been "broken"
<ali1234> it's just that only gtk3 exposes it
<brainwosh> intelligent hiding in 14.04?
<ali1234> actually, considering that it doesn't happen at the top of the screen, all what i just said is most likely bullshit
<ali1234> i've got no idea :S
<brainwosh> ping the indicator guy
<ali1234> i could go and start an argument with gtk devs if you want
<ali1234> this needs thorough testing inside a VM i think
<ochosi> hmyeah, i guess so
<ali1234> i should make a tool to mangle the struts
<ochosi> well, frankly i'm not sure it's really worth it
<brainwosh> you cannot even trigger this bug in unity, because the panel is always visible and placed at the top
<ali1234> that way i can throw any nonsense and see what gdk does with it
<ali1234> brainwosh: i bet you can
<ochosi> i hope that we can work towards a gtk3 panel soon
<ali1234> if you have multimonitor
<ochosi> and then we'll have to solve this at the panel level for everything i guess
<ali1234> the panel needs a rewrite :(
<brainwosh> broken things everywhere
<ochosi> not sure
<ochosi> brainwosh: everywhere? you really seem to like overstating things
<ali1234> argh
<ali1234> firefox is going behind my bottom panel now
<ali1234> hide: never, reserve space on borders -> struts are still messed up
<ali1234> fixed it
<brainwosh> startup notify stopped working on my desktop (root area), thunar crashed -> "double free or corruption (fasttop), some random X server complete freeze, and many more today
<ali1234> someone found out how to reproduce the thunar crash on ascending to parent directory
<brainwosh> and I'm just using the pc for basic stuff
<ali1234> i'm also getting LOADS of flash plugin and firefox crashes
<ali1234> and the odd X freeze, probably related to flash/firefox
<ali1234> and i'm on 14.04
<ali1234> this distro might have jumped the shark :(
<brainwosh> remove flash
<ali1234> i might install flashblock actually
<ali1234> so check this rant: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10725#c13
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10725 in Window Buttons "Setting "Show windows from all monitors" stops working correctly after changing monitor layout" [Normal,New]
<ali1234> this can't be fixed without a panel abi break
<ochosi> yeah, i've seen the report before
<brainwosh> so much to do
<ochosi> the only thing i can say is discuss it with nick when he's around
<ochosi> i'm not touching any of that with a 10-foot pole :)
<ochosi> ali1234: thanks for adding the comment
<brainwosh> this looks familiar https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11503
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11503 in Display Settings "xfsettingsd fails to reenable LVDS after opening lid" [Major,New]
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-04
<bluesabre> brainwash: still running a system on -proposed?
<bluesabre> ochosi: pushed your monitor IDs
<bluesabre> enjoy
<knome> heh
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<knome> i just came up with a solution to your and brainies nick problem
<knome> just rename his nick to brainwashere
<bluesabre> hey knome
 * knome is playing a game from sgt-puzzles, i really think this is a good package
<knome> it clutters the games menu though, it adds *a lot* of launchers
<knome> maybe if there was one launcher with a game selection screen..
 * bluesabre senses a patch from knome
<knome> it wouldn't be out of question for me to write that patch with zenity, but i don't know if the author wants to depend n zenity
<knome> the package currently has no depends..
<knome> well, at least extra for me
 * knome double-checks
<knome> mmyeah, they are all very basic
<bluesabre> the ubuntu folks suck at package numbers
<bluesabre> Setting up ubuntu-mono (14.04+15.04.20150128-0ubuntu2)
<knome> heh
<knome> it's a form of art
<Unit193> bluesabre: What, haven't seen all the indicator packages?  Don't think they've had a release since before trusty.
<Unit193> !info indicator-sound
<ubottu> indicator-sound (source: indicator-sound): System sound indicator.. In component main, is extra. Version 12.10.2+14.10.20141010-0ubuntu1 (utopic), package size 76 kB, installed size 429 kB
<bluesabre> Unit193: yup, those are the worst offenders
<knome> what about those 123-really-122 ones :P
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> knome: Have more respect for those. :P
<bluesabre> 7.0.0-really-6.0.2-justkidding-8.2.1
<knome> yes
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> !info ruby2.0
<ubottu> ruby2.0 (source: ruby2.0): Interpreter of object-oriented scripting language Ruby. In component main, is extra. Version 2.0.0.484+really457-3ubuntu1.2 (utopic), package size 64 kB, installed size 124 kB
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> bluesabre, see, wasn't kidding!
<Unit193> Are you really going to add a epoch that you can never get rid of just for 484 => 457? :P
<bluesabre> the borders on this page hurt my head http://www.klipsch.com/blog/klipsch-install-stories-chipotle-adds-heresy-iii/
<bluesabre> I mean
<bluesabre> sweet, xfce4-settings builds again in -staging
<knome> nice
<Unit193> bluesabre: What'd you do?
<Unit193> bluesabre: /lastlog artwork
 * bluesabre does not know that command
<bluesabre> Unit193: fixed something olivier pushed that broke building with debug
<Unit193> 13:49:19 < Unit193> So since xubuntu-artwork is nearing the stage of metapackage, should it have stronger (depend upon) the plymouth themes, wallpaper, and icon theme? || 13:52:21 < Unit193> I'd think perhaps poke an artwork person or dev about it.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Ah, I see.
<bluesabre> missed that
<bluesabre> but yeah, it probably should
<Unit193> Also means we can drop listing them explicitly in core.
<bluesabre> that'd be nice
<bluesabre> my internet only wants to be slow when downloading files
<bluesabre> >.<
<knome> bluesabre, start uploading then
<Unit193> Yes.  Also could then add core as a seed for desktop and not list things twice.
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> we should find somebody to do that
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> hmm
<knome> i have somebody in mind
<knome> but i quite can't get his irc nick in mind
<knome> it had some numbers maybe
<knome> at the end
<bluesabre> pleia2
<knome> no, it must've started with a capital letter
<Unit193> I thought someone named "Sean" would be good, since he's lead dev, and if he breaks it it's all good. :---D
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I'll do it
<knome> break it?
<knome> noooo
<bluesabre> but prod me if its not done by this weekend
<Unit193> Yeeees.
<bluesabre> oh, its going to be so broken
<bluesabre> Depends: ubuntu-desktop
<Unit193> bluesabre: But, I can actually take a look if needed.  Think that's where knome was going. ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, review the idea of blacklisting gnome guide?
<bluesabre> Unit193: feel free to if you want, but not making you
<bluesabre> oh right
<knome> yes, since Unit193 has worked on it... :)
<bluesabre> what all depends on yelp... I think at least one of my apps did in the past
<Unit193> knome: Makes me no expert, actually means I'm more likely to break it.
 * knome shrugs
<Unit193> bluesabre: yelp is needed, it's the help viewer for evince and all.
 * bluesabre has lots of experience breaking things for us
<bluesabre> boo
<Unit193> knome: The more you mess with it, the more likely it is to break right? ;)
<bluesabre> silience = yes
<bluesabre> silence roo
<bluesabre> too
<bluesabre> holy crap
<knome> Unit193, ssshhh, i'm breaking things
<bluesabre> knome: stop breaking my keyboard
<knome> hah!
<knome> bluesabre, boo for non-family-friendly language
<knome> bluesabre, just remember
<knome> bluesabre, you ken elweys rapleke ell e's with a's end ell k's with c's!
<bluesabre> cnoma's dvorec cayboerd
<knome> i will somadey meca e lot of monay with thet!
<knome> thet is tha bast!
<knome> buthros buthros gali
<knome> reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctaszjeaDK0&t=03m22s
<Unit193> knome, slickymaster: Not sure it's relavent to you, but moved my daily build of the docs.
<knome> not me
<Unit193> OK, it had the translations and all, so wasn't sure.
<knome> haven't used it
<knome> now, of to bed
<knome> ttyl
<Unit193> G'night.
<ochosi> morning everyone
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> so there are issues with the 14.04.2 isos?
<ochosi> is ibus the only troublemaker?
<elfy> I've got to look again - second time of trying I could login
<elfy> not sure if it wasn't just pebkac
<ochosi> hmkay
<ochosi> i'll try to take a look at one of those isos myself
<elfy> ty
<ochosi> hmm, i dl'd the 32bit version
<ochosi> saw too late that 64bit failed for you
<elfy> it was both ochosi 
<ochosi> wtf, there's lots of unity crap
<ochosi> indicator-session, indicator-datetime, indicator-keyboard and ibus
<ochosi> Unit193: wanna help track down what pulls those in for the 14.04.2 iso ^ ?
<Unit193> Welp.
<Unit193> 1. Don't like trusty.  2. That's a heck of a mess, just by first glance.
<ochosi> so that's means you're on it?
<Unit193> I'm thinking this is acually a no..
<Unit193> What the heck happened here?
<ochosi> well, you're the package wizard
<ochosi> i'm not even sure where to look
<ochosi> but i guess someone messed up package recommends
<ochosi> maybe software center recommends all the unity stuff now :p
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/K9nNMtSPpAD53Eisblxr that's just a quick grep, gnome-p-m, unity-greeter(!!)
<Unit193> But in a SRU?
<ochosi> yeah, who knows
<ochosi> must
<ochosi> 've been SRU; what else?
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/jhS3A8j3Dfxk0Mn5AKAE but have fun?
<ochosi> all the terrible gnome stuff, how did that happen
<ochosi> maybe gnome-system-tools or something?
<ochosi> hah, even xscreensaver gets pulled into the mix
<ochosi> so there's gnome-screensaver, xscreensaver and light-locker
<ochosi> maximum security
<elfy> holy screenlock batman
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/ErCxPnqNP7qer8sBhcaO/ without version numbers, highlights new packages.
<ochosi> linux-generic-lts-utopic ??
<ochosi> these folks really suck at naming packages, as you guys already pointed out earlier
<Unit193> LTS enablement.  I'd say that it's pulling in Qt is more fun.
<ochosi> yeah, well it makes you wonder why certain things didn't get pulled in
<Unit193> notification-daemon and xfce4-notifyd, wonder which would win...
<ochosi> i'm just finishing my testcase so that i have something to report and elfy won't beat me, but this isn't much fun
<elfy> lol
<Unit193> Soooo, can we skip .2? :P
<ochosi> haha
<elfy> probably could release late 
<ochosi> what's the date?
<elfy> tomorrow ... 
<ochosi> (in your email, you just said "soon" :D)
<ochosi> woot
<elfy> well 
<elfy> they do everything late now seemingly 
<elfy> all the milestones are up for testing 2 days before milestone releases
<Unit193> Because, this really jumped and brings in tons of crap...
<elfy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2015-January/003197.html
<elfy> ochosi: no-one can force us to mark them ready for release 
<ochosi> yeah, we shouldn't
<ochosi> i'm asking around in -release, we'll see what comes of it
<ochosi> still, i guess there's no way around getting to the bottom of this
<ochosi> hm, i was advised to weed through this: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/xubuntu.trusty/
<elfy> purge of ibus and it wants to install gnome-control-center 
<elfy> purge that and it removes all the qt5 stuff
<elfy> not sure if that's helpful or not :)
<ochosi> elfy: ok, so logging in works fine
<ochosi> i deliberately set a pwd that requires _de layout
<elfy> yea pretty sure that was pebkac last night
<ochosi> "gÃ¼gÃ¼", in case anybody was wondering
<elfy> I use # in mine somewhere - that wanders around keyboards :)
<ochosi> indeed
<elfy> I see laney involving 
<ochosi> yup, that can only be good
<elfy> :)
<elfy> well - not sure how we can do this - without creating a bug - but you could if you've got one critical fail the test 
<elfy> that does ping people somewhere afaik
<elfy> but right now I'm off to drive about for a while 
<ochosi> sure, hf
<Unit193> ochosi: You didn't even list any of the unity stuff. :P
<ochosi> yeah, didn't wanna step on anyone's toes who might wanna help ;)
<Unit193> Sure, but it's not really any surprise that Xubuntu doesn't want unity-greeter, at least I'd think.  You already listed gnome stuff, and the first one to pipe up was the GNOME lead. :P
<ochosi> :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: yes, -proposed is enabled and a dozen of DEs are ready to test
<ochosi> bbl
<bluesabre> brainwash: -proposed is the land of breakage... if possible I'd recommend at least a vm where you can test xubuntu without packages from -proposed (since there are "broken things everywhere")
<brainwash> bluesabre: I don't do normal testing, just playing around with what is the most recent
<brainwash> bluesabre: this busy cursor / startup notify thing tends to not work properly, it suddenly stopped on the root background yesterday
<brainwash> exo-open desktop launchers seem to prevent the busy cursor too
<brainwash> like the one for the web browser and email reader in our app mneu
<brainwash> bluesabre: also, https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11504
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11504 in Helpers "Update mimeapps.list location (glib >= 2.41)" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> this time in exo
<bluesabre> right, by nature they will break startup notify, the window manager has no idea what to expect
<bluesabre> I don't have access to exo
<bluesabre> maybe ochosi does
<brainwash> bluesabre: but it seems that exo-open makes sure that the desktop startup id is saved and passed to the child process
<bluesabre> hm, not sure then
<brainwash> bluesabre: maybe it needs to be packaged, it does not look like there will be a new exo version any time soon
<bluesabre> actually, I can set the bug status for exo, but don't have the upload rights to it
<bluesabre> there might be
<bluesabre> ochosi sent a mail urging us xfce devs to get done with 4.12 by the end of the month
<brainwash> you can only push patches to -settings and -parole and... uhm
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> -settings is quite the beast though :)
<brainwash> wow, winter.. uhm 4.12 is coming 
<brainwash> yeah
<brainwash> especially all the display managing code
<bluesabre> we'll be under 100 xfce4-settings bugs once I get some confirmation :D
<bluesabre> we had 148 before the weekend
<brainwash> btw did you try to figure out why the minimize button button is missing (settings manager)?
<brainwash> great progress :)
<bluesabre> forgot to check
<bluesabre> should be easy enough to find though
<bluesabre> but for now, gotta get ready for work
<brainwash> it should, but no one really tried so far
<brainwash> ok, have fun :)
<ochosi> brainwash: added your bugreport to the list, so it will be handled before the 4.12 release
<elfy> ochosi: good afternoon :)
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<ochosi> i ended up only doing one testcase and spending the rest of my time talking to folks in -release about our dependency mess in 14.04.2
<ochosi> infinity is looking into it (with stgraber afaik)
<elfy> yep - saw that backlog, thanks :)
<elfy> I think I'd rather see you concentrate in dealing with them than a testcase :p
<ochosi> yeah, that's what i thought ;)
<ochosi> frankly, without fixing that, the testcases aren't very useful
<elfy> if I see a ping from someone that it's been sorted - I'll trigger rebuild - if you see it first do you know how to do that? 
<ochosi> i mean the first one was, to see that there is a mess
<elfy> ochosi: yea ... 
<ochosi> yeah, i think i do
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker logged into there - go to our stuff, tick our boxes then at REbuilds - request them
<ochosi> yup, i think that was among the things i learned a cycle ago :)
<elfy> assuming that infinity has sorted everything that needs it of course 
<elfy> ha ha ha - me about 3 cycles ago only - though it seems like decades :p
<ochosi> yeah, true that
<elfy> booting trusty even looks odd tbh 
<ochosi> you mean dusty?
<elfy> kik
<elfy> sigh
<elfy> lol
<knome> hah
<elfy> I'm no touchtypist :D
<ochosi> dusty tahr
<knome> i still run trsuty
<knome> trusty too
<elfy> I don't 
<knome> elfy, you'd run 18.04 if you could ;)
<elfy> I forgot what it looked like a month or so into unreal unicorn
<elfy> knome: lol
<elfy> would it still have xfce 4.10/.11/.12 in it? 
<knome> i don't know...
<ochosi> no, the new all-gtk3 xfce4.14 ;)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> (aka the buggiest release in decades)
<knome> i'd rather have it run 4.16 :P
 * elfy screenshots that AND makes note of the logs - just to refer back to in a couple of years
<ochosi> knome: sorry, not a realistic timeframe ;)
<knome> ;)=
<elfy> ha ha 
<knome> ochosi, unfortunately...
<knome> well i hope 4.12 is out by then realistically
<knome> :P
<knome> it's possible that we're running some kind of 4.12/4.13 mixup
<ochosi> obviously you don't read my emails :)
<ochosi> (i mean the ones i'm not sending to you directly)
<knome> not getting paid for that :P
 * Unit193 just did.
 * elfy saw some if they be behemoth ones
<knome> eh
<knome> ochosi, good good
<ochosi> knome: well, it'll likely mean less time/attention for xubuntu stuff, but i think it's necessary/worth it
<knome> ochosi, sure
<knome> elfy, https://twitter.com/cjbramble/status/562648514405339136
<Unit193> "Connecting to servers" is outdated now, nm-tool is gone.
<elfy> knome: and he did in fact do that, cjbrambo has been in and out of here for the last day or two :)
<elfy> ochosi: just pinged inifinity in -release
<elfy> hi krytarik 
<krytarik> Heh.
<krytarik> I mean hi elfy too. :)
<ochosi> elfy: thanks
<elfy> if nothing else it'll make it plain we'll have to not mark it ready as it stands
<ochosi> indeed
<knome> elfy, goodie
<knome> -->
<slickymaster> Unit193, to where did you move your -docs daily build?
<Unit193> slickymaster: https://unit193.net/xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/ is one.
<slickymaster> thanks Unit193, bookmark it
<slickymaster> Unit193, your daily build isn't fully updated 
<slickymaster> at leastr the translations 
<slickymaster> * least
<slickymaster> see https://unit193.net/xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/pt/guide-keeping-safe.html
<slickymaster> I've already translated it 
<Unit193> pt.po   88.6493%
<knome> potato 88.6493%
<sidi> slickymaster, knome hm, am i still allowed to amend this security advice guide?
<Unit193> fi.po   88.6493%
<sidi> i realise there's one piece of tricky advice, and another which can be misunderstood easily
<knome> sidi, depends if you do a merge proposal in docbook :P
<slickymaster> hey knome, sidi 
<sidi> knome, ouch
<slickymaster> Unit193: check LP -> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs
<slickymaster> pt 100%
<Unit193> LP is wrong. :P
<slickymaster> sidi, pastebin what you want changed and I'll push Ä©t
<slickymaster> no it isn't Unit193 
<sidi> slickymaster, thanks, let me do that now then
<Unit193> slickymaster: What's your info based on? :P
<slickymaster> np sidi, and it's us who have to thank you
<slickymaster> on the fact that I did the translations a couple of weeks ago
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/eJlJLEVwYdNEwFouNpmD
<slickymaster> there's something very wrong with that Unit193, that's the spanish translation :P
<knome> ai caramba
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> Bart
<knome> no, pasi, nice to meet you
<slickymaster> Simpson
<slickymaster> ;)
<slickymaster> but getting back
<slickymaster> Unit193, I think this is the begging of the guide-keeping-safe chapter ->
<slickymaster> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/vivid/+pots/desktop-guide/pt/+translate?memo=630&start=630
<slickymaster> as you can verify it's translated
<slickymaster> fi isn't, though (cof cof knome cof)
<knome> nah, don't worry about it
<knome> besides you want "cough" :P
<knome> not cof (circle of friends)
<slickymaster> that was supposed/intended to be an onomatopoeia of coughinh knome 
<knome> :P
<slickymaster> at least that was the sound in my mind :P
<sidi> http://pastebin.com/stmRqWU3 slickymaster 
<slickymaster> ok sidi, so it's just a two paragraphs change
<sidi> slickymaster, it's a massive restructuration
<sidi> :p
<slickymaster> lol
 * slickymaster will have to pull an all-nighter to deal with it
 * Unit193 shrugs, that's fi, pt, and es.
<slickymaster> sidi, pushed up to revision 287
<slickymaster> once again thanks for it
<sidi> stop thanking me
<sidi> do i thank you when you write a patch for code? ;P
<slickymaster> lol
<knome> sidi, that's a riddle, he doesn't write patches
<Unit193> I write bugs.
<knome> in code?
<Unit193> slickymaster: See comment about NM by chance?
<slickymaster> NM?!
<slickymaster> network applet?
<slickymaster> + manager
<Unit193> slickymaster: Maybe LP didn't commit it, but msgmerge -U pt.po desktop-guide.pot  Yeah, in the section about Connecting to Servers or something, nm-tool no longer exists.
<sidi> Unit193, haha
 * slickymaster will check that Unit193 
<knome> slickymaster, see? this is the reason i don't translate this early, i'll just end up retranslating half of it ;)
<slickymaster> I know knome, but back when I did translate those strings I was going through a dull moment
<slickymaster> ;)
<slickymaster> damn it, once again I forgot to update the bloody translation templates
<knome> haha.
<slickymaster> :P
<brainwash> bluesabre: tzzzz, verification failed -> bug 1292290
<ubottu> bug 1292290 in xfce4-settings "[SRU] Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292290
<slickymaster> yeah Unit193, Chapter 7 regarding nm-tool
<slickymaster> the first two sections have to be rewritten :P
<slickymaster> knome, Unit193, do you think it's worth to file a bug regarding that ^^^?
<slickymaster> or going ahead with what has to be done is enough?
<Unit193> slickymaster: Bug if you don't want to remember or not going to do it now, don't do the paperwork just for the sake of it.  Keeps things simple.
<slickymaster> ok Unit193 
<slickymaster> I'll try do it this weekend
<knome> agree with Unit193 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-05
<knome> ochosi, we'll want to covert the terminal color scheme into a preset and ship it
<elfy> ochosi: caught up with all the trusty tests - which have all now got at least 1 result
<elfy> reported bug 1418377
<ubottu> bug 1418377 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "A whole bunch of unwanted stuff installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1418377
<elfy> and have critically failed all of my tests - so if anyone from -release is looking at what can be released later I'd hope that 10 fails out of 10 will jog a memory or two :)
<ochosi> knome: sounds good, are you taking that on?
<ochosi> bluesabre: since my ubiquity-panel branch has been merged, could you please look at the packaging for that file? seems that while it's in the source tarball it's not getting installed yet: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/blob/master/ubiquity-panel-bg.png
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, the same goes for the emerald theme and everything else in greybird's top dir (speaking of vivid / shimmer daily ppa)
<ochosi> elfy: thanks for that
<ochosi> i guess we can't be very optimistic about this getting fixed
<elfy> I'm not
<ochosi> (in time, that is)
<elfy> yea
<elfy> though if they do manage in the next few hours to get something we can rebuild
<elfy> it won't take long to do a few smoketests to ensure it's all gone
<elfy> I suspect this time tomorrow morning we'll not have released it though
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> just as a note, i have a meeting at work for the next few hours, so i won't be around to ping/handle people
<ochosi> will be back in about 3 though
<elfy> ok
<elfy> I'll be gone in an hour till I get back too
<brainwash> elfy: why xubu default settings? aren't the extra packages pulled in by xubuntu-meta or some ubuntu core package?
<elfy> ochosi: pretty sure knome can request rebuilds still, need to check that bluesabre can as well 
<elfy> brainwash: just ignore that bug thanks
<elfy> it's just something that I did quickly so I could critically fail all the .2 tests
<elfy> and if there was an oojumyflip package I would have used that 
<brainwash> ok, ToZ did the same (report against default settings)
<brainwash> which triggered that our SRU one failed
<elfy> however if YOU would like to run through the test and report against each and everything that's pulled in be my guest :)
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> tag has been already removed from bug 1292290
<ubottu> bug 1292290 in xfce4-settings "[SRU] Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292290
<brainwash> no failed anymore
<brainwash> but still, so many people are subscribed to the report ^ and no one has tested + verified it so far :/
<elfy> happens
<elfy> brainwash: if I remember I'll check that tomorrow and verify 
<brainwash> you could even use the 14.04.2 iso which has/had -proposed enabled by default :)
<brainwash> thanks
<elfy> brainwash: when I do it - I'll do it on hardware not vm
<elfy> that's a lot of words ... 
<elfy> what's actually wrong? 
<brainwash> comment #31 is the important one. you reassign one of these actions to another keybind and relog
<brainwash> after login the new keybind should still work
<elfy> brainwash: ok - thanks 
<elfy> I am though a bit dubious about verification only being done by one or two people 
<elfy> if it's that important then there should be more 
<elfy> and did you verify it? 
<brainwash> it's a backport from vivid
<brainwash> well, I fixed the xml and in vivid and tested it ofc
<brainwash> -and
<elfy> but not in trusty? 
<brainwash> no, otherwise I would have verification-done it already
<elfy> bit ironic complaining about people not testing it then :)
<brainwash> I did my part
<brainwash> it's not a SRU with 1 or 2 subscribers
<elfy> yea I understand *that*
<Unit193> (Though, I tend to think approving it from top down isn't great either.)
<elfy> does beg the question that if 36 people are affected then it should be verified by more than 1 or 2 
<brainwash> it's a bit annoying for people that the report is spammed with comments and it's not that easy to focus on the essential stuff
<elfy> yea but that's LP for any bug with more than a heat of 6 ... 
<brainwash> maybe some up/down vote system could help
<brainwash> mmh, I'll have to request that
<elfy> I doubt it 
<elfy> don't expect me to mark it as affecting me :p
<brainwash> I could visually highlight helpful comments
<elfy> ochosi: so, looks like delayed for a week (currently) 
<ochosi> elfy: ok, that is actually good news
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> at least it wasn't just us - I think gnome have issues and I know lubuntu do :)
<bluesabre> brainwash: if you can reproduce the bug and the fix, there is nothing wrong with reporting your result, even if it is your bug... especially if that helps things get out of -proposed...
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> when you do report on your own bug, I think there is a benefit in laying out all the steps you do so that you are not suspicious and others can verify even your result
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<ochosi> so the ll patch was accepted for xfpm
<ochosi> just needs some small warnings fixed
<bluesabre> since Greybird has multiple themes in a single folder, we have to be explicit about what installs where, so the ubiquity panel is not currently installed
<bluesabre> so I can fix that today
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> sure, no rush
<bluesabre> just need to know where things need to go
<ochosi> ok, so the ubiquity png has to "stay" where it is
<ochosi> i.e. greybird's toplevel folder /usr/share/themes/Greybird
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> oh also, i might do another theme point release soonish
<ochosi> since i fixed the gtk3 spinner
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> ping me when I need to package it
<ochosi> will do
<ochosi> you can test it meanwhile, if you want
<ochosi> it's already in shimmer-daily
<bluesabre> also, do you have bluetooth on your computer and a bluetooth device?
<ochosi> yeah i do
<bluesabre> the error statusbar used in blueman is black
<bluesabre> making it impossible to read the actual error
<ochosi> hm, not sure i know what you mean exactly
<ochosi> wanna show me a screener of that?
<bluesabre> I'll try to reproduce now
<ochosi> k
<bluesabre> can't always get a bluetooth error :)
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> got it
<ochosi> oh, "good" :]
<bluesabre> actually
<bluesabre> its black in numix too
<bluesabre> so its probably a blueman issue
<ochosi> what, black on black?
<ochosi> well, to know whether it's a theme issue, check ambiance or adwaita
<ochosi> since satya started the sass port, the theme in git master hasn't received a ton of attention (also, he seems busy with work)
<bluesabre> looks fine in adwaita
<bluesabre> its black on every theme except adwaita, and blue on albatross
<ochosi> hmm, ok, well since it's gtk3, fire up the inspector?
<ochosi> or if i can reproduce it, i can debug it
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/iRC0C9u
<knome> ochosi, will look at it
<ochosi> bluesabre: mind to check with inspector what sort of widget that is? (they should really use infobars...)
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/eREUhPR.png
<bluesabre> things that have used gtk for a long time do not use gtk3 correctly
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> true that
<bluesabre> "what? you mean there are new widgets since 2008?"
<ochosi> could you also check what classes the blueman+gui widget has?
<ochosi> the hbox doesn't have any bg
<ochosi> so obviously that's not it
<ochosi> but yeah, always fun to see an HBox in a Gtk3 app :)
<bluesabre> no classes
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> like, nowhere?
<ochosi> with no classes at all, i'd expect a normal bg_color
<bluesabre> blueman+gui+MessageArea has no defined classes
<ochosi> hm
<ochosi> guess i have to try to reproduce that then
<bluesabre> what does adwaita do to not make the default background black?
<ochosi> who knows, maybe it sets some generic widget bg colors explicitely
<ochosi> it's really really hard to follow all of their changes
<knome> ochosi, what do you think about shipping a mousepad (gtksourceview) color scheme?
<ochosi> knome: i'm +1 on it (as long as you don't expect me to do it ;))
<bluesabre> easy to package
<ochosi> bluesabre: woot, gtk3 plugs in gtk2 socket (see last comment): https://github.com/blueman-project/blueman/issues/25
<knome> ochosi, well i almost have one ready... and have built it so that it allows a light variant as well
<ochosi> knome: great, i say go for it!
<bluesabre> i have a solarized-dark package for gtk2 sourceview that I use with mousepad
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/experimental/+packages
<knome> i guess ultimately this would mean that i'd poke the terminal color scheme as well
 * ochosi prefers solarized light
<knome> i've used oblivion, but it has its problems
<knome> do either of you know mousepad enough to say if we can force a different default theme on our installs systemwide?
<bluesabre> we can
<knome> good
<bluesabre> ochosi: albatross makes it blue, so that might lead to a solution of sorts... http://i.imgur.com/asDrj9G.png
<ochosi> bluesabre: hm, what colors do tooltips have in adwaita?
<knome> another question for both of you...
<ochosi> bluesabre: cause that looks like it uses the tooltip bg color, but the normal fg color
<knome> have you seen a color scheme that actually changes the highlight color for search matches and the highlighted matches when selecting "highlight all" ?
<knome> i wasn't able to get that working with 0.3.0 last night
<ochosi> maybe it's a missing feature (i could very well imagine that)
<ochosi> best to ping matthew (codebrainz) about that directly when he's around
<bluesabre> in sourceview?
<knome> bluesabre, yah
<bluesabre> not to my knowledge
<knome> at least the other highlighted stuff is always yellow bg for me
<knome> can't remember if the current one was just the selection color
<knome> yeah... :/
<knome> boo
<knome> there's the search-match tag, but that doesn't do anything
<knome> at least to my knowledge
<bluesabre> ochosi: not sure how long the gtk3 embedding will work... I think we're getting closer to all gtk3 windows being csd
<bluesabre> but for now, woot
<ochosi> bluesabre: i was thinking of menulibre and mugshot mainly
<ochosi> also, for blueman i submitted an upstream ticket: https://github.com/blueman-project/blueman/issues/178
<bluesabre> those screenshots were not CC
<bluesabre> :P
<ochosi> hehe, feel free to complain about the missing license ;)
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: for checking out... https://gist.github.com/knomepasi/1c22f13d3f7c135f3866
<bluesabre> colorful
<knome> well i've only tested it on the laptop
<knome> and it nearly has the same colors as our terminal color scheme
<knome> heh, i just noticed a problem with that
<knome> but i'll keep improving
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> olivier added libinput support http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/commit/?id=49be65f8355aa54e28ac97fa569fc2b436d8b4b9
<ochosi> woot already?
<ochosi> holy crap
<ochosi> that was quick
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> meh, that doesn
<ochosi> t build
<ochosi> error: variable âreverse_scrollingâ set but not used [-Werror=unused-but-set-variable]
<knome> not so quick then eh :P
<bluesabre> lol
<ochosi> well, that
<bluesabre> had a similar issue with his last push
<ochosi> 's just a tiny issue with compile flags
<ochosi> bluesabre: already got a reply on that blueman issue
<bluesabre> woot already?
<bluesabre> holy crap
<bluesabre> that was quick
<bluesabre> :P
<ochosi> yeah, just a comment though
<ochosi> no action :)
<knome> bluesabre, check the updated gist
<knome> lunchtime
<bluesabre> lol, add the ifdef libinput, then
<bluesabre> main.c:1220:17: error: âreverse_scrollingâ undeclared (first use in this function)
<bluesabre> stupid compiler
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> very stupid
<ochosi> i'm poking the same thing
<ochosi> cause i wanna test a change i made to the icon theme list
<bluesabre> if you fix it, go ahead and push
<ochosi> well, big if
<bluesabre> I want to do a coverity scan build on the current settings once I can get it to build
<ochosi> mm, that'd make sense
<ochosi> bluesabre: thoughts on this? http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-02052015-125243pm.php
<bluesabre> not opposed to it
<ochosi> maybe add row hints: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-02052015-125404pm.php
<bluesabre> better
<ochosi> was just thinking it'd be nice not having to hover the tooltip
<ochosi> cause it suuuuucks.
<ochosi> a11y-wise
<ochosi> and theme-names often aren't descriptive enough
<bluesabre> another possible idea would be to maybe have a few preview icons
<ochosi> yeah, i know
<ochosi> but that's far more work
<bluesabre> like 3 of the most common
<ochosi> and i'd want that in addition to this
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> yeah, something like: folder, file, arrow
<bluesabre> mhm
<ochosi> but that's really a lot more work
<ochosi> there's no code for loading icons from different themes yet
<ochosi> if you wanna go there, be my guest :)
<ochosi> but i think even this is an improvement
<bluesabre> agreed
<bluesabre> I might play with it a bit
<bluesabre> what you're interested in is GtkIconTheme
<bluesabre> https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkIconTheme.html#gtk-icon-theme-set-custom-theme
<bluesabre> you can then use that to load icons from any theme
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> that makes it a lot easier
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> well play with it if you want
<bluesabre> yeah, might do that a bit in the next few days
<ochosi> i'll likely push my patch to a branch
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> i'll pastebin you a link to my branch as soon as i've cleaned it up and pushed it
<bluesabre> sweet
<bluesabre> elfy, ftr, I am able to request rebuilds still, but as usual, will be out all day
<brainwash> bluesabre: I don't maintain a trusty installation and it looks like almost no one here does
<knome> i do
<brainwash> you could verify that xubuntu-default-settings in trusty proposed fixes the keybind problem
<brainwash> ideally we would want the fix in before final release of 14.04.2
<knome> if we release .2
<brainwash> oh, are the dependency issues still not resolved?
<brainwash> ibus, extra indicators and so on
<knome> i don't follow it closely, but i read about that on the mailing list from elfy
<brainwash> it really looks like we have to fight the ibus "malware" over and over again
<brainwash> it always finds a way back on the iso
<knome> but re: verification, link me to the bug and i'll most likely get into it eventually
<brainwash> it's bug 1292290
<ubottu> bug 1292290 in xfce4-settings "[SRU] Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292290
<brainwash> I guess you know that you will have to add "verification-done-trusty" and leave "verification-needed" (if the new package fixes the problem)
<knome> verification-done / verification-failed iirc
<knome> and i think you can drop -needed if you did it
<brainwash> but the SRU is targeting trusty and utopic too
<brainwash> we need verifications for both
<knome> meh, i don't really know why we're targeting utopic, it's dead soon
<knome> but -trusty then i guess
 * knome shrugs
<knome> i'll look into that when i get to the verification part :P
<brainwash> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/PerformingSRUVerification
<brainwash> the utopic one is not important
<brainwash> but it helps to prevent that the bug (corrupted xml file on first login) is carried over from utopic to vivid
<brainwash> if someone creates a new account in utopic and then upgrades to vivid, for example
<elfy> bluesabre: thanks - nice to be sure who can do what where for when it's needed :)
<knome> elfy, always up-to-date answer: everybody in ~xubuntu-release
<knome> that's the feature we mainly set that team up for :)
<elfy> yes I know that
<elfy> but - things go wrong with trackers ... or had you never noticed :p
<knome> noooo
<knome> :P
<knome> what are you talking about?
<elfy> ha ha 
<knome> ok, sister+ coming over
<knome> see you later
<elfy> cya 
<brainwash> bluesabre, Noskcaj: should bug 1388009 be fixed in trusty?
<ubottu> bug 1388009 in xfce4-screenshooter (Ubuntu) "The program is not translated" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1388009
<brainwash> it's a packaging issue and should be resolved via SRU I think
<ochosi> huhu, we're not alone: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1418295
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1418295 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Black screen after resuming from suspend" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<elfy> :)
<elfy> can one of us who can change bug importance do something with bug 1418377 so it flys high on the trusty 
<ubottu> bug 1418377 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "A whole bunch of unwanted stuff installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1418377
<elfy> tracker defects list
<elfy> confirming and critical sound good 
<slickymasterWork> so elfy, do you want ir Critical or High?
<slickymasterWork> s/ir/it
<slickymasterWork> never mind, I saw you already said what you wanted
<slickymasterWork> elfy, done -> bug 1418377
<ubottu> bug 1418377 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "A whole bunch of unwanted stuff installed" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1418377
<elfy> thanks :)
<slickymasterWork> np
<elfy> wait for the summary page to catch up with it 
 * slickymasterWork hopes elfy is sitting, while he waits
<elfy> oh yes :)
<slickymasterWork> :)
<brainwash> ochosi: but that's a different black screen bug
<ochosi> i know that
<brainwash> and this reminds me that cavalier may have figured out a way to fix our blank screen bug properly
<brainwash> well, no, he would have pinged us :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: since we talked about this earlier today, here's my patch: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9130
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9130 in Appearance Settings "Icon-themes list could show more details" [Normal,New]
<elfy> ochosi: check ubuntu-meeting from ~17:09/17:10 UTC 
<elfy> surprised other people that we ended up with qt5 and unity-greeter :p
<elfy> pleia2: re your Jam at the weekend - is there anything you'd like from me for it? 
<elfy> just realised that it's at 21:00 for me - so can be around for a while - but not for hours :)
<pleia2> elfy: just being around early on is fine :)
<pleia2> I'll have attendees join here and ask questions
<elfy> ok :)
<pleia2> if all else fails, I'm funneling them to xubuntu-desktop package to submit bugs
<elfy> testing vivid? 
<pleia2> yep
<elfy> ok - thanks :)
<pleia2> I printed out testcases last night so they can follow along on paper for manual full disk install and live installs
<pleia2> er, live cds
<elfy> right
<elfy> I hope the testcases are good :D
<pleia2> I'll refresh all my isos on Saturday and get the sticks prepped, no one make any changes between sat and sunday images :P
<elfy> I did a how to zsync/rsync wiki page if that's any use
<pleia2> ooh, link?
<pleia2> I'll also be showing the general QA wiki pages, so improvements on those have been appreciated
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/DevelopmentSetup/SyncImage
<pleia2> thanks
<elfy> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-usb is cleaned up 
<pleia2> nice
<elfy> and if anyone pitches up with xubuntu 14.10 - then upgrade tests from image would be awesome too :)
<pleia2> com32 error D;<
<pleia2> hates
<elfy> :)
<pleia2> wait, which is that for, unetbootin or usb-creator-gtk?
<elfy> you should just need to tab then either live or unetbootindefault :)
<pleia2> the etherpad is confused
<elfy> both I am afraid
<pleia2> gah
<pleia2> I hate usb sticks
<elfy> running trusty - com32 when using the buntu tool
<pleia2> alright, I'm on utopic so I'll use usb-creator-gtk
<elfy> running utopic - unetbootin fails 
<elfy> yep - should work :)
<pleia2> oh gosh, I'm supposed to be at the jam venue in 15 minutes to do a walk through
 * pleia2 pants
<pleia2> can't go in pajamas :)
<elfy> I've found that the disks tool just works 
<elfy> ha ha 
<elfy> hi jono_ 
<jono_> hey elfy
 * knome 's office is pajama friendly
<dkessel> FYI: i just created a xubuntu-docs daily ppa @ https://code.launchpad.net/~dkessel/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-docs-daily . not sure if it is interesting for anyone but me though ;) slickymaster, maybe ...
<dkessel> got to go. good night
<ochosi> that might actually be a candidate for the staging PPA
<ochosi> or we could move it to a "more official" place at least, in case more ppl are interested
<Unit193> Heh, I have https://unit193.net/xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/ too, daily build. :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: will you do a new release of catfish with the about-icon changed for vivid or shall i put that icon i dropped back in the theme? (used to be gtk-about-symbolic)
<pleia2> "A whole bunch of unwanted stuff installed" hah
<knome> pleia2, btw, the new US mirror is up, no email sent, was too hard to find an admin email or contact information
<pleia2> knome: k
<knome> should set up the other new mirrors too
<pleia2> yes, please :)
<knome> what about the qa incentive shouting out?
<pleia2> did that on tuesday or something
<knome> oh ok
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> hey all
<bluesabre> ochosi: planning to fix that, but thanks for the ping
<knome> pleia2, done
 * pleia2 inspects
<knome> yeah, plz double-check
<pleia2> just US, or did you add the other ones too? i forgot what we were adding
<knome> i did everything
<pleia2> cool
<knome> so there are few other changes too
<knome> i changed US three days ago when somebody pointed out the mirror wasn't working any more
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> how do we want to link to the full mirrors list?
<knome> at the end of both lists?
<pleia2> wfm
<knome> working on that next
<knome> maybe double-check that this is sane too http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/mirrors/
<pleia2> very nice
<knome> good, then i'll link eet
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> first link to ZA no worky
<knome> hmpf
<pleia2> stray %20 in there
<knome> ugh
<pleia2> skimmed the rest, they look ok
<knome> done
<knome> updated blueprint
<pleia2> gold star!
<knome> haha
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-06
<bluesabre> productive bunch :D
<knome> it's a hoax
<bluesabre> brainwash: re bug 1388009, yeah, we should take a look at that for trusty
<ubottu> bug 1388009 in xfce4-screenshooter (Ubuntu) "The program is not translated" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1388009
<elfy> for those who don't know, the trusty .2 release has been put back a fortnight
<knome> bluesabre, why not "team"?
<elfy> good day knome :)
<knome> hullo elfy 
<ochosi> hey guys
<elfy> hi ochosi :)
<elfy> I assume you've seen the 14.04 news 
<knome> yep
<knome> oh, not me
<elfy> lol
<elfy> well anyone - but I did mean ochosi :)
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> already read about it on irc, then the complaints on -release about it not being announced properly (i actually agree with the complaint)
<elfy> yea to a degree I do 
<slickymasterWork> hey everybody
<bluesabre> knome: well, the thought was to get everything set up before adding *
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<elfy> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<elfy> good ty - you?
<bluesabre> doing all right here
<elfy> good 
<bluesabre> elfy, which elfy are you on trello?
<elfy> ummm
<elfy> elfy1 
<elfy> xub dev board just popped up 
<elfy> as if by magic :)
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> lol
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> be calling you the shopkeeper 
<elfy> but that would make no sense to you :)
<bluesabre> since the list only grows, I think this might be more necessary these days for dev
<ochosi> yeah, although it's not looking all-too-bad for 15.04
<knome> bluesabre, so why the team is called developers and not team?
<ochosi> (for devel)
<bluesabre> so far have you, ochosi, knome, Unit193 all on there as admins
<bluesabre> because its the development group
<bluesabre> unless we want all of our projects on there
<ochosi> yeah, otherwise we end up with huge trello boards again
<knome> well,
<bluesabre> but we agreed at the beginning of the cycle that -team wasn't using trello
<knome> i don't understand why the name couldn't be team if we didn't use it broadly for all team activities
<bluesabre> we can do that
<knome> and if it's just developers, what am i doing in the admins :P
<elfy> oh - not a board by organisation
<bluesabre> trusted individual who can help get things together :P
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> knome, happy?
<bluesabre> https://trello.com/xubuntuteam
<knome> better
<knome> i mean, we've kind of tried to steer the marketing/image to team/community (vs dev) elsewhere
<knome> so it makes sense to do that there as well
<bluesabre> since you're all admins, feel free to create boards and reorganize, add things to bugs and assign them priority (or drop them in new)
<bluesabre> and invite the others
 * ochosi finally sees through bluesabre's plan of establishing trello as progress-tracker after all
<bluesabre> I can't keep up with the pings, so going to use this to work through bug reports, packaging requests, etc
<ochosi> non-recurring pings are probably not important enough though
<bluesabre> made the trello public viewable
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> bluesabre: hf, ttyl
<knome> i got to run too
<knome> see you all later
<elfy> ooh - thought I was in here lol :D
<ochosi> huhu, poor elfy
<ochosi> or better yet: poor elfy's sense of orientation ;)
<elfy> been one of those days 
<elfy> I even tried to help some one :(
<ochosi> that sounds like a good thing though
<elfy> sidi thought I was harsh :D
<elfy> I put HIM right ... lol 
<ochosi> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-07
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hrm, at the rate GTK3 is going, would it be too much to have in the theme descriptions what gtk3 version they're compatible with?
<brainwash> bluesabre: any news on bug 1415683 ?
<ubottu> bug 1415683 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/xfdesktop:11:xfdesktop_file_icon_manager_metadata_changed:ffi_call_SYSV:ffi_call:g_cclosure_marshal_generic_va:_g_closure_invoke_va" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1415683
<brainwash> it still prevents 4.11.8 from landing in trusty-updates, right?
 * sidi cries in a corner
<knome> sidi, huhu, what's up
<sidi> elfy bullied me in the schoolyard
<knome> bad elfy 
<knome> bbl
<bluesabre> brainwash: eric_the_idiot provided a patch, haven't had a chance to test it yet
<Unit193> bluesabre: Fixed xfpm-daily.
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks for the quick action on that
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-08
<ranu> Morning all
<ranu> If I were developing some application that is a default application for Xubuntu, I do have to program with GtK or another GUI Framework it's allowed?
<ranu> s/it's/is
<brainwash> ranu: which framework do you prefer? we basically only ship gtk2 and gtk3 applications
<ranu> I would like to use Qt, but if apps shipped with Xubuntu are restricted to be programmed with GTK I have no choice.
<brainwash> ranu: right, it does not make much sense to install all the qt libs and dependencies just for one 1-2 apps
<ranu> You're right, I will happily take gtk.
<brainwash> ranu: you could share your app ideas on the xubuntu dev mailing list
<ranu> Ok, I will write an email!
<brainwash> thanks :)
<pleia2> xubuntu jam day in sf \o/
 * pleia2 preps 2015-02-08 isos
<ochosi> nice
<pleia2> aaaand usb-gtk-creator is freezing at 46%
<pleia2> hateful thing
<pleia2> now it froze my whole desktop - joy!
<ochosi> pleia2: yeah, can be buggy, that one. dd is always an option...
<Unit193> Best thing for creating that is actually for Windows. >_>
<pleia2> dd is brutal on my usb sticks (they aren't exacly high quality) and it takes forever
<Unit193> (This one: http://www.linuxliveusb.com/en/download nothing quite as good, sadly.)  Well, you can do it manually.
 * pleia2 tries Disks
<Unit193> I have no idea how well it works, but there is also grml2usb.
<pleia2> my other two laptops seems to be making progress on using usb-creator-gtk for now
<pleia2> in this time, I've already created my 4 discs for Lubuntu (alt and desktop)
<pleia2> we, 2 for lubuntu, 2 for xubuntu for folks who have trouble with usb
<pleia2> Error writing 1048576 bytes to offset 317718528: Input/output error (g-io-error-quark, 0)
<pleia2> fml
<pleia2> there, some of my other computermachines are doing this all better
<elfy> pleia2: those tools see you approaching it seems :D
<jyo> pleia2: o/
<pleia2> welcome jyo! our first jam contributor
<elfy> woohoo - thanks jyo :)
<jyo> Hmm. The multimedia key for toggling the touchpad on my Zenbook does not appear to be working. All the other keys (keyboard brightness, screen brightness, sound) work just fine. Which package should I poke at?
<pleia2> ^^ looking to submit a bug :)
<pleia2> xubuntu-desktop for now
<jyo> 1419527 for the curious
<Unit193> bug 1419527
<ubottu> bug 1419527 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "XF86TouchpadToggle not being picked up" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1419527
<pleia2> welcome rww! Another jam participant :)
<rww> :)
<pleia2> hey elfy 
<pleia2> err elky 
<pleia2> oh dar
<pleia2> bug 1066720
<elky> pleia2: o/
<ubottu> bug 1066720 in language-selector (Ubuntu) "'Couldn't install the full language support' for English version of Ubuntu Desktop" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066720
<pleia2> that's the one you want send to the iso tracker
<rww> pleia2: it's worse when i get them mixed up
<pleia2> hehe
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-08
<ochosi> evening all
<flocculant> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> pretty quiet day here, eh?
<knome> here being this channel, or this notch of the ubuntu land?
<flocculant> ochosi: looks so - I only got back a few hours ago
<knome> bbl
<sidi> hiya ochosi 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-09
<bluesabre> nice
<Unit193> New fop hit Debian.
<knome> hooray
<flocculant> jit
<knome> oh bah, errands
<knome> should stop procrastinating
<knome> bbiab
<knome> and done
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: going to work on the greeter this week. Had a packed weekend, should be able to find time to poke the code starting tonight
<flocculant> okey doke :)
<pleia2> knome: FYI: a Linode+15.10 specific security vulnerability meant I needed to regenerate the host ssh keys on the server, so you'll get a warning that the key changed the next time you log in
<knome> pleia2, ack
<flocculant> bluesabre: jfi - 14.04.4 put off till next week, 16.04 B1 week after that
<knome> bug 1543786
<ubottu> bug 1543786 in ubuntu-website-content " Change Xubuntu description on flavours page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1543786
<cajuntechie> Are there any more regularly updated roadmaps for xubuntu than this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<knome> http://tracker.xubuntu.org/
<cajuntechie> Thanks
<knome> np
<cajuntechie> Has 16.04 been frozen yet?
<knome> feature definition freeze went by already, if you were asking that
<cajuntechie> OK so there is still room for code then? Like bug fixes, etc? (I'm new and wanting to get involved)
<knome> of course; final freeze is a few weeks from release
<knome> and welcome!
<cajuntechie> Cool and thank you!
<knome> basically anything in the tracker that isn't assigned to a person (see http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/a=xubuntu-website,xubuntu-team,xubuntu-qa,xubuntu-doc,xubuntu-dev,xubuntu-art+sort=assignee+sortdir=asc) is more or less open to start working on
<knome> (it's not quite as black and white as that, but you can probably figure out which items are going to be taken care by others)
<knome> and i would say even items that are assigned to somebody but are "TODO" are more or less something you can start working on after contacting the assignee
<knome> is there something specific you would like to help with?
<cajuntechie> Excellent. I'm going through the list now. Interesting stuff
<knome> some of it is interesting, some of it is quite boring... ;)
<cajuntechie> I'm totally willing to do boring. It all helps the project.
<knome> totally
<knome> what are you into?
<knome> programming? documentation? artwork? testing?
<knome> (there's more, but just to start with something...)
<cajuntechie> Mostly programming and doc. I might start with doc while I get the lay of the codebase then move there.
<knome> the documentation should be more or less "there", but there's always room for improvement (and expanding)
<knome> are you familiar with version control systems or would you like some help in getting started?
<cajuntechie> I know git and have worked with cvs. That's about it
<knome> bzr is very similar
<knome> git clone -> bzr branch
<knome> other basic commands are the same
<knome> the documentation is located at lp:xubuntu-docs, so bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs to get it :)
<cajuntechie> OK, I'll run through some tutorials. I might need to just sit this cycle out then jump in next once I've got everything I need covered.
<knome> sure, np
<knome> and don't feel afraid to ask
<cajuntechie> Trust me, I won't. You guys will be tired of me by the time I get up to speed I'm sure lol
<knome> nah ;)
<cajuntechie> Well, thanks for all the info! I am going to start with some basic structure stuff and bzr. I'm off to start reading some tutorials now. I'm quite excited.
<knome> cool!
<knome> good luck and have fun :)
<cajuntechie> Thanks!
<bluesabre> cajuntechie sounds promising, hoping to see him around here again :)
<knome> flocculant, i just filed: bug 1543822, bug 1543823 and bug 1543824 based on the old http://pad.ubuntu.com/trackerpull
<ubottu> bug 1543822 in Ubuntu QA Website "Search submitted reports" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1543822
<ubottu> bug 1543823 in Ubuntu QA Website "Search bugs linked to submitted reports" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1543823
<ubottu> bug 1543824 in Ubuntu QA Website "List reporters with filters" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1543824
<bluesabre> buggy
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> well, wishlist
<knome> so not buggy, just not feature-rich
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> but feature-thoughful :)
<knome> hah
<pleia2> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu-flavours
<pleia2> imma social media it, because this is the best news all day
<bluesabre> ooh
<bluesabre> is this a new page?
<pleia2> it is!
<bluesabre> sweet!
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-February/011022.html
<bluesabre> huzzah!
<sergio-br2> yo
<sergio-br2> why there's 2 imageMagick entries in the menu?
<knome> sorry, but this still isn't the support channel
<Unit193> bluesabre: Do you have a bzr/git repo for shimmer-themes packaging?
<sergio-br2> eh
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://code.launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/xubuntu-artwork/shimmer-themes-debian
<sergio-br2> I'm talking about xenial
<knome> sergio-br2, imagemagick isn't installed by default on xenial
<sergio-br2> uh...
<knome> sergio-br2, you should ask the imagemagick developers for the reason
<Unit193> sergio-br2: Two desktop files in /usr/share/applications likely.
<sergio-br2> knome, are you sure?
<knome> sergio-br2, sure about what?
<sergio-br2> that it does not comes by default on xenial?
<Unit193> knome: It does, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/xenial-desktop-amd64.manifest
<knome> since when?
<knome> anyway, it's the imagemagick developers who need to fix this
<knome> tbh, i don't know if any item should be visible with it
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-10
<Unit193> bluesabre: Merge request or direct push?
<bluesabre> Unit193: feel free to direct push
<Unit193> Done.
<bluesabre> good sir
<bluesabre> nice work
<Unit193> That just leaves gmb and lightdm stuff.
<bluesabre> Unit193: that's kind of my general stance with a lot of things, if you're in -dev I feel as though you should be able to commit changes and poke me after, or make merge requests and throw rocks at me
<Unit193> bluesabre: Heey, I already passed you the patch in Jan! :P
<bluesabre> I usually open up branches and whatnot as they are shared, but lose them when my browsers crash
<Unit193> Hah. :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: yup, and I failed to follow up quickly on it (as above) ;)
<Unit193> And yeah, would do gmb myself but not sure if you want to replace it with parole.
<bluesabre> can you share the gmb one again? I can take care of that one
<bluesabre> (also gives me a chance to test that parole works)
<bluesabre> ;D
<Unit193> Eh, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml#L26 just showed what two lines.
<bluesabre> oh right
<bluesabre> just need to do some grepping :D
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/M8PGeFpA5F2yqGGfgYSA/ was just an indication of what needed done, as well as modify the maintscript to remove the old file.  (One move is just from debian/ to usr/share/blah, doesn't actually move it on the filesystem.)
<bluesabre> I'm going to get xenial on here full time this week so I start noticing more
<Unit193> ...I didn't notice it in Xenial, but when I diffed the package to my forked version. :P
<bluesabre> gotcha
<bluesabre> yay, xenial vm is updated
<Unit193> And, IIRC you didn't want to look into elementary-xfce-themes this cycle, understandably.
<bluesabre> yes, let's plan to start that migration at the start of yappy
<bluesabre> yappy... yak
<bluesabre> calling it
<sergio-br2> <sergio-br2> quick question, in the kernel version, 4.4.0-2  ==  4.4.1 vanilla ?
<sergio-br2> nobody answered me in ubuntu+1
<sergio-br2> found the info
<bluesabre> looks like the greeter is getting confused (explaining the missing wallpaper)
<bluesabre> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/l/lightdm-gtk-greeter/lightdm-gtk-greeter_2.0.1-2ubuntu2.dsc
<bluesabre> woops
<bluesabre> well, it's in a copy buffer in my vm, and its long, so take my word for it
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> or it could just be that things have moved around
<bluesabre> anyway, a fix is on the way!
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/594 look good to you?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Heh, well should work, though *.maintscript is a bit easier and bzr mv is a bit cleaner diff/history.  I wonder though, how that works with the moved config right above, eg from trusty to xenial?
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, used to git handling that for me, forgot that bzr is a bit inferior
<bluesabre> Unit193: good good question
<bluesabre> I'll test it tonight, and try a package upgrade in trusty and see what happens
<bluesabre> ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1542927
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1542927 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Power applet crashes when iPhone plugged in" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> bed time, bbl
<flocculant> knome: ty - I've scrubbed them from my list of things to after the gci stuff :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: \o/
<flocculant> knome: imagemagick turned up quite early with something, I did mention it at the time - I hid them both in the menu
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, menulibre and mugshot have RC bugs in debian for FTBFS. Should i be patching them or will you have the next stable releases out soon?
<dkessel> i'm taking this from offtopic to here... what do you guys think about implementing a "low disk space" monitor as some kind of default process that gets configured for users? upon reaching "0 bytes" (or some other value), a notification might be shown periodically...?
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> 0 bytes is a bit late perhaps :)
<dkessel> sure ;)
<pleia2> I think that instead it would just be making one of the disk space tracking panel items a default component
<pleia2> they change color as the disks get fuller
<pleia2> but it would be terribly annoying if you had a disk you knew was near/full, or it was tracking another partition that is intentially full
<flocculant> pleia2: I didn't even know they existed
<dkessel> i have those on my laptop to watch space.
<dkessel> that might work
<dkessel> oh, no default package it seems...
<dkessel> i am using "xfce4-fsguard-plugin" - are you using any, pleia2?
<pleia2> that's the one
<pleia2> shows up as "Free Space Checker" in the panel-add-stuff dialog
<pleia2> but you're right, I had to install it, it's not a default package
<dkessel> i will install it on all those systems next time i am on them... hopefully somebody will call me then before everything stops working next time...
<dkessel> this time, printing stopped suddenly... last time it was something else...
<Akxwi-dave> morning all
<flocculant> hi Akxwi-dave 
<Akxwi-dave> morning
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: feel free to make the changes. I'm guessing the fix is probably this, https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~catfish-search/+junk/catfish-daily-debian/view/head:/debian/rules#L7
<flocculant> bluesabre: I will do the testing call for 14.04 as soon as I see the images land at week end
<flocculant> then we'll have a couple of days before 16.04 beta
<bluesabre> flocculant: cool, I'll have a new xubuntu-default-settings and catfish uploaded by the end of the week for 16.04
<bluesabre> doing some package upgrade tests
<flocculant> nice
<flocculant> we need really to make a call for some specific package tests I guess, after b1 would be best - be a mission to do that in between the two milestones
<bluesabre> yeah
<Akxwi-dave> sounds good..
<bluesabre> and some 14.04->16.04 upgrade tests, guessing we probably have those
<flocculant> we do 
<Akxwi-dave> Was there any problems with the ppa's yesterday?  
<flocculant> we don't need to worry about 12.04 to 14.04 at least \o/
<bluesabre> Akxwi-dave: what sort of problems?
<Akxwi-dave> tried updating my lappy but the ppas couldn't connect
<Akxwi-dave> when doing the apt-get update
<flocculant> I had that momentarily on Monday I thought - though it could have been yesterday
<bluesabre> could be some canonical server issues
<bluesabre> just try again after a while
<Akxwi-dave> I'll check again later
<Akxwi-dave> cheers
<bluesabre> :)
<Akxwi-dave> Incidentally, I upgrade my daily laptop from 15.10 to 16.04 a wekek or too ago, and its running really good
<Akxwi-dave> not come across any major problems.
<Akxwi-dave> In fact Civ 5 seems to run a lot better..  :-)
<bluesabre> sweet
<bluesabre> amd, nvidia, or intel gpu?
<Akxwi-dave> Intel/Nividia 630M
<bluesabre> using prime, or just one of those?
<Akxwi-dave> tend to use the Nvidia using the Nvidia drivers
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> I'm usually wary to upgrade at the early parts of the cycle, usually have to blacklist nvidia to get anything to show up
<bluesabre> since the kernel tends to move faster than the nvidia folks :)
<Akxwi-dave> :-) Well as there was nothing on Tv, I thought I'd give it a bash...  I haave another hard drive with xubuntu on for the lappy if thing went wrong
<bluesabre> Unit193: putting this here sort of as a note to myself, also need to move the 01_ubuntu.conf provided by the lightdm-gtk-greeter package for the moved xubuntu config to work
<Unit193> Fun..
<bluesabre> this will probably affect any other lightdm-gtk-greeter config files
<bluesabre> if anybody else ships them :)
<Unit193> !find /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf.d/ xenial
<ubottu> Found: W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W: (and 7 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=/etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf.d/&searchon=names&suite=xenial&section=all
<Unit193> !find /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf.d/ xenial
<ubottu> File /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf.d/ found in lightdm-gtk-greeter, lubuntu-default-settings, ubuntu-mate-lightdm-theme, xubuntu-default-settings
<bluesabre> oh boy
<bluesabre> and I've forgotten the reason, why are we moving configs out of etc?
<Unit193> Wouldn't it not affect them if you put lightdm-gtk-greeter in usr?  It shouldn't affect the ones in etc as they should be higher priority anyway, no
<Unit193> ?
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> thats a good point
<bluesabre> I'll test that as well
 * bluesabre gives Unit193 a bag of cookies
<Unit193> :D
<Unit193> Small things like 01_xubuntu.conf aren't really made to be edited (session=xubuntu) as they can just either be selected on the greeter, or overridden by a config file in /etc/lightdm/
<Unit193> Avoids marking them config and going through the purge vs remove thing, and upgrade questions.
<bluesabre> cool, that's the good answer I was looking for
<Unit193> I wonder if 30_xubuntu.conf should be trimmed down, though. :P
<bluesabre> I'll take a look at it while cleaning it up and tidying up the ubuntu conf at the same time
<bluesabre> looks like I'll have to tweak the scripts a bit, 14.04 with customized greeter config does not migrate to 16.04
<bluesabre> but I'll work on that later
<bluesabre> time to get ready for work, bbl
<Unit193> Have fun.
<slickymasterWork> !team | Next community meeting, Wednesday, 17 February 2016 22:00 UTC
<ubottu> Next community meeting, Wednesday, 17 February 2016 22:00 UTC: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> thanks ubottu ... 
<slickymasterWork> :P
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: now, are you completely sure which day it is on :D
<slickymasterWork> now I am, flocculant :D
<slickymasterWork> but it took me a minute :P
<flocculant> ha ha 
<slickymasterWork> :)
<slickymasterWork> anyway calendar and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings updated
<slickymasterWork> team calendar, that is
<flocculant> yep 
<flocculant> was looking to see why ^^ that wasn't showing up - it wouldn't - it wasn't on trello yet :p
<dkessel> thanks for scheduling slickymasterWork :) good choice of day/time, too
<slickymasterWork> sure dkessel 
<flocculant> ochosi: hopefully you saw the same with gnome-software, I'd be surprised if you didn't - could you confrim bug 1544325
<ubottu> bug 1544325 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Installing gnome-software removes system-config-printer" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1544325
<flocculant> or indeed anyone who might have had a look :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: perhaps you could look and confirm it :p
<flocculant> if you've got brave enough yet 
<bluesabre> flocculant: can check in a vm at least
<bluesabre> plenty of snapshots recently :)
<Unit193> Not in stock repos.
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea - fails in vm - I'm not losing printer in my working xenial :D
<bluesabre> oh? thought I saw it pop up today
<Unit193> Just refreshed caches and no installation candidate.f
<flocculant> ppa still afaik 
<flocculant> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/gnome-software
<bluesabre> alrighty then
<flocculant> cheers m'dear
<bluesabre> flocculant: I don't have system-config-printer installed (I do have -gnome installed though)
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> well
<bluesabre> looks like system-config-printer-gnome replaces it
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> I couldn't see any printer tools when I looked
<knome> pleia2, you likely saw my bug about the flavours (download) page?
<pleia2> alphabetical?
<knome> pleia2, just wanting to check with you if you are fine with that too - and if it's ok to replace the ubuntu wiki wikipage to that description too
<bluesabre> flocculant: https://i.imgur.com/OGu9gme.png
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> alphabetical, and the xubuntu description
<pleia2> knome: yeah all good
<knome> pleia2, good good :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: so how you starting that? 
<knome> bluesabre, "Software", what a nice app name :P
<bluesabre> flocculant: searching for it in whisker
<flocculant> printer?
<bluesabre> knome: welcome to gnome3 apps, killing off the proper name for generic name
<knome> bluesabre, ugh
<bluesabre> knome: and ignoring GenericName in the XDG spec
<bluesabre> FUTUREEEEE
<knome> bluesabre, i'm ok with the menu name being dumb, and the window title being dumb, but the about windowm REALLY?
<knome> s/m/,/
<flocculant> bluesabre: http://i.imgur.com/u0mEQcR.png
<knome> are the settings manager items still hidden in whisker?
<bluesabre> flocculant: is that an older install?
<bluesabre> knome: nope, present and accounted for
<knome> mmh
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea - but updated etc
<knome> i'm sure flocculant is running the y ISO already
<knome> ;))
<bluesabre> flocculant: probably got lost at some point when that transition happened
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll redo it all now then
<flocculant> bluesabre: I hope it is :)
<flocculant> though I still don't like the usc replacement :p
<bluesabre> it might just be difficult to love a software center in general
<flocculant> I guesas
<flocculant> I can cope with synaptic 
<bluesabre> it will probably be better once its patched up
<bluesabre> hopefully
<bluesabre> doesn't take much to be better than USC ;)
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> does it see packages yet?
<bluesabre> running pkcon to see if I can make it see packages
<bluesabre> pkconf update -d
<bluesabre> is what I found on google anyway :D
<bluesabre> *pkcon
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> really not going to add this to my daily xenial just yet :)
<bluesabre> I wouldn't recommend this at this point
<flocculant> nope 
<flocculant> that's two of us :)
<flocculant> I suppose tomorrow I could grab a random (other than kde) flavour and see what goes on there
<flocculant> though I suppose anyone's fresh add-apt will fail - not just for us
<bluesabre> mine worked, and it wasn't very long before yours
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> I'll wait till some have got updated builds in the morning - then critical fail all over the iso tracker :p
<flocculant> I do like it when - *buntu fail
<flocculant> we can wait :)
<bluesabre> mhm
<flocculant> oh noes
<bluesabre> :|
<flocculant> bluesabre: so yet another 14.04 xfpm thing - what's the best course of action here - try the ppa?
<bluesabre> :(
<bluesabre> now what's wrong?
<flocculant> who know's :|
<flocculant> incoming
<flocculant> <Guillaume2> why when i close the cover of my laptop the login screen appear i login then the screen keep being black.  i have to reboot,. but when he goes on sleep with cover up he recover perfecly ? is there a solution for that problem. in fact if when i close the cover the screen only go off it will do the job. i don't want it to sleep
<flocculant> [23:48:40] <Guillaume2> xubuntu 14.04
<flocculant> bluesabre: that ^^
<bluesabre> ah that
<flocculant> I just give up with pm stuff
<bluesabre> easiest solution
<flocculant> that'd be good 
<bluesabre> "We are aware of some hardware/driver incompatabilities that were discovered after the release of 14.04. With limited resources, we are not able to test all combinations, and would recommend installing xscreensaver until the issue is addressed"
<bluesabre> is probably what I would write
<bluesabre> and/or some other locker software, gnome-screensaver as one
<bluesabre> being unable to recreate the issue, we're really limited in fixing it
<bluesabre> and some things just don't handle the VT switch well
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> I could go 'aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh' 
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> I did that at "bluesabre: so yet another 14.04 xfpm thing - what's the best course of action here - try the ppa?"
<flocculant> about releasing when we have had 4 or 5 people telling us things :D
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-11
<flocculant> bluesabre: right - I knew you would which is why I went bluesabre > instead of ochosi > :p
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> what can I say - there are only 3 of us :p
<flocculant> I vote for making web/debian liason/docs release team till 18.04 :D
<Unit193> Whhhhut?
<flocculant> *shrug* no - not many people tested that :p
<Unit193> I'm reading now, I wasn't before.
<flocculant> oh rite 
<flocculant> need to work more on the keywords
<flocculant> :p
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> flocculant: I liked the idea of expiring at this LTS!
<flocculant> I like the idea of expiring full stop at this juncture
<Unit193> But, but, but...  I just upgraded another system to Xenial!  I'm trying to help! :(
<bluesabre> Unit193: too hacky in your opinion? https://paste.ubuntu.com/15012568/
<flocculant> bluesabre: actually working on hardware here now 
<bluesabre> flocculant: as in, doing hardware work or running xenial in a non-vm?
 * bluesabre realizes he didn't test with a modified config
<Unit193> What about  "Any shell metacharacters will be escaped, so arbitrary shell code cannot be inserted here."  ?
<Unit193> man dh_installdeb
 * flocculant wonders which unasked question bluesabre refers to :)
<flocculant> unless the 'are you brave enough'
<flocculant> which I understand :D
<flocculant> talking to robert ancell bout my issue - which confusing me 
<Unit193> For trusty, should in theory be able to just boot a vm and install xubuntu-default-settings_16.04.1_all.deb
<Unit193> dpkg-query -W -f='${Conffiles}\n' | grep obso  doooon't spot the xubuntu files. >_>
<bluesabre> boot vm, install newer version of greeter, tweak lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf, install that package
<Unit193> However, do you want to move their config to user? :P
<bluesabre> hmmm
<flocculant> lightrdm just completely confuses me now
<Unit193> etc should override, soo.
<bluesabre> good point
 * bluesabre spends a lot of time doing needless work
<bluesabre> rm_conffile should be sufficient
<bluesabre> or maybe that's not even required
<bluesabre> >.<
 * flocculant feels the same way sometimes :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Well, unless the user edited the file. :P
 * bluesabre opts to not rm_conffile or mv_conffile
 * flocculant is still confused with lightdm
<flocculant> do we install stuff to /usr
<flocculant> then if people want to fiddle point them to making a new file in /etc
<flocculant> ?
<Unit193> flocculant: Yes.
<Unit193> flocculant: Shipping only the bare minimum in usr/
<flocculant> autologin does my head in 
<flocculant> might try and do and "this is default" "this is default no password" type affair
<Unit193> FWIW, /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf is shipped with everything explained and commented out.
<Unit193> And, IIRC, defaults as the values.
<bluesabre> yup
<flocculant> Unit193: find autologin in there where "everything explained and commented out"
<bluesabre> autologin is part of lightdm conf, not the greeter
<bluesabre> (iirc)
<flocculant> perhaps I can't see that because of bug 1508192
<ubottu> bug 1508192 in mousepad (Ubuntu) "Mousepad search highlights hard to see" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1508192
<flocculant> bluesabre: even so - autologin should not be hidden in 370million google pages
<flocculant> where the one you actually need is page 79 :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: agreed
<bluesabre> probably need to document it better
<bluesabre> on the ubuntu wiki
<bluesabre> or something
<flocculant> or our's 
<flocculant> somewhere for sure :)
<flocculant> oops
<flocculant> that was a full on teenage shreak :D
<flocculant> or swear 
<Unit193> Wait, people use mousepad to edit system conf?!
<flocculant> Unit193: only people who are lazy enough to use the shortcut they have kicking about in thunar'smenu 
<bluesabre> I do in a vm if I am too lazy to install vim
<flocculant> that they copied from years back
<Unit193> bluesabre: vi, or nano!
<flocculant> bluesabre: wtf - does something really simple like nano not work once you can code?
<bluesabre> I've gotten too vimmy, nano no can do
<flocculant> omg
<Unit193> ...That's OK, I doubt I know how to use the GUI as well as others. :P
<flocculant> I shall remember to not code then :p
<bluesabre> lol
<flocculant> Unit193: I can do 2/3'ds :p
<Unit193> bluesabre: There's benefits of both, Ctrl+k is something I miss in vim for example.
<bluesabre> code in atom or geany, configs in vim
<flocculant> I just remember fails with vi/vim and sudoers 
<flocculant> I do like atom - it remembers stuff
<flocculant> I actually used it too ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: found a bug in my ubuntu conf for the greeter, so things will look a bit different (as they were actually intended) on the next upload
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> bluesabre: so - clean install it - upgrade from it ? 
<bluesabre> (thank Unit193 reminding me that the greeter had a template with examples)
<bluesabre> flocculant: it will work fine with an upgrade
<flocculant> bluesabre: we need perhaps a get-together on what we need to test
<bluesabre> flocculant: alrighty
<bluesabre> should just be a difference in layout
<flocculant> I can even do it with a cam so we are actaully talking :D
<flocculant> or a phone :)
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> AS LONG AS YOU PAY
<bluesabre> then you'll hear my panicked "that's not right", "crap", "that wasn't supposed to be found" ramblings
<flocculant> or free cam :D
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<bluesabre> Unit193: so, an observation I have made while working on these packages, the config files don't go away on their own without explicitly using rm_conffile, even without changes
<bluesabre> it might actually be best to just rm_conffile and have users recustomize, particularly since there is little config and the params have changed in the last few greeter releases
<Unit193> bluesabre: Files in /etc?  Yeah they won't get removed if you remove the package unless you purge.
<bluesabre> gotcha
<bluesabre> well, with rm_conffile, user-made changes will at least be backed up, so i don't see any significant downsides to it
<Unit193> Config files, and marked as such.  You can use a hack but everyone will hate you for it. :P
<Unit193> OK, just as long as you're aware.
<bluesabre> cool
<Unit193> And, man you're up late.
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> late dinner, indigestion
<bluesabre> guzzling water and burping a lot
<Unit193> Ouch.
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> I win, just finished Battleship now Criminal Minds.  Tata.
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> other than "wily" sneaking into this commit (corrected in 597), that should do it for x-d-s, and I've got the greeter package ready to go as well
<bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/596
<bluesabre> I'll upload both in the morning
<bluesabre> night all
<ochosi> flocculant: maybe not relevant anymore, but i don't remember printer stuff getting removed on installing gnome-software
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: didn't really mean you - I know where to hassle you :D
<flocculant> ochosi: thanks - that's odder than bluesabre - pretty sure you were looking in a vm at the same time as I was originally
<ochosi> flocculant: well at least i don't *
<ochosi> *remember* ;)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I'll test it all again later - I had add-apt crashing on me last night - that didn't help at all :p
<Unit193> gnome-software just hit repos.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nice job!
<bluesabre> flocculant: uploaded new lightdm-gtk-greeter and xubuntu-default-settings. To make it easier, wait until both hit the archive before upgrading and kicking the tires :)
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/2.0.1-2ubuntu3
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/16.04.1
<bluesabre> respectively ;)
<bluesabre> back to bed for me, bbl
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre, Unit193, flocculant, resuming from suspend gives me no networking and reboot/shutdown takes me to the login screen
<slickymasterWork> did any of you guys face that?
<slickymasterWork> in Xenial, of course
<knome> pleia2, slickymasterWork, please look at http://wiki.xubuntu.org/website/series
<slickymasterWork> morning knome :)
 * slickymasterWork checks the link
<slickymasterWork> just one remark knome 
<slickymasterWork> the final question in the media players article
<slickymasterWork> not sure if it's worth to have it 
<slickymasterWork> what was your idea behinfd it?
<slickymasterWork> * behind
<knome> it's not useful in the sense of giving users additional information, but it draws the developers closer to the community by talking about human things
<knome> (eg. not only ever about technology!)
<slickymasterWork> fair point
<slickymasterWork> my fear that it can somehow escalate obfuscating the main point we'd like to be addressed
<slickymasterWork> but I do see your point
<knome> well it says briefly
<knome> i was thinking about a few lines at most
<knome> where the rest of the article would be worth of 3-4 paragraphs (maybe)
<knome> though i don't know if everybody wishes to be so wordy
<slickymasterWork> ok
<knome> but *shrug*
<knome> it's very intentional there :)
<knome> we'll edit if flocculant goes on rambling 134534 pages long about 70's music
<slickymasterWork> this article reminds me item (yet to be done) about removing the references of gmb in the documentation
<knome> yeah...
<knome> that said, do you think there would be some other questions that we SHOULD ask?
<slickymasterWork> I'll take care of that one
<knome> or that could be useful for say, your article
<knome> because i totally wrote the questions based on what i want to say
<knome> (maybe all of them aren't even that meaningful for many here)
<slickymasterWork> no, I'd just add, in the first media players question, the streaming habit
<knome> ah
<slickymasterWork> lots of people these days just prefer to stream, instead of collecting their music in physical medias
<slickymasterWork> but this of course takes with it the capacity/availability of a media player to stream content from spotify, soundcloud, etc
<knome> yeah, but i don't know if any app works with for example spotify
<knome> sure
<slickymasterWork> exactly
<knome> i've led to think that the team uses a good spread of media managers
<knome> it might not be totally comprehensive, but then, this isn't about presenting all linux media manager
<knome> +s
<slickymasterWork> and just a few used the 'official' one
<slickymasterWork> I for one, never come to peace with gmb
<knome> and ultimately, once we know what media managers will be presented and notice a popular manager is missing, we can just throw in an "other alternatives" article
<slickymasterWork> yes
<slickymasterWork> on a different subject knome, have you already tested xenial?
<knome> i've installed it once on vbox
<bluesabre> flocculant: both are in the archive now
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: not seen that, heading out the door though
<slickymasterWork> lol, was about to ask you that
<slickymasterWork> knome, will you be aroung this afternoon?
 * slickymasterWork has to go lunch now
<knome> to be or not to be
<slickymasterWork> :)
<knome> that's the question...
<knome> erm, i'll be leaving from home within an hour
<knome> i don't know if i'll take my laptop with me
<slickymasterWork> well, I'll ping you
<slickymasterWork> if not, tonight
<knome> yep, do that
<slickymasterWork> ok
<knome> yeah, i'll be around on the evening
<slickymasterWork> ->
<flocculant> knome: so I'll say "anything but country or western" then :p
<knome> flocculant, that works :P
<ochosi> evening all
<knome> hello ochosi 
<ochosi> i really need to catch up on a few thinsg
<ochosi> sry i haven't been able to be around much the last week or so, lotta work @work
<knome> :)
<davmor2> flocculant: these are about as close to country and western as I get, do those count? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfmYCM4CS8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRvCvsRp5ho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckom3gf57Yw
<knome> just sent a mail to the devel mailing list so i don't have to repeat myself too many times
<knome> ochosi, please read :)
<bluesabre> knome: good ideas
<ochosi> oh hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> how come you're around at this hour?
<bluesabre> Pulled out my phone
<ochosi> yup, good ideas knome 
<ochosi> oh i see
<bluesabre> So not actually around ;)
<ochosi> :>
<bluesabre> bbl
<ochosi> bluesabre, knome: hey, say, did you know about https://unsplash.com/ ? (for the wallpaper "contest")
<knome> no
<ochosi> there are some really nice pics there
<ochosi> and it's creative commons zero license https://unsplash.com/license
<ochosi> so we should be able to use those without problems
<knome> mhm
<ochosi> this one i like a lot: https://unsplash.com/photos/RH-17EIWprY
<ochosi> nice colors
<knome> not bad
<ochosi> (note that the preview differs from the final pic, as it adds vignetting on top and bottom)
<ochosi> there are a lot of pics with people in them, but also enough good ones without
<ochosi> plus the resolution is sufficient (in all pics i tried)
<pleia2> knome: heh, they haven't responded to the ticket, but dev.x.o now exists, pointing to the wrong address
<pleia2> I'll respond
<knome> lol
<knome> thanks
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> hey slickymaster, I'd check your system logs to see if there are any events that stick out
<slickymaster> will do bluesabre, tomorrow
<bluesabre> slickymaster: cool
<slickymaster> but I do have a confirmation of it, bluesabre 
<bluesabre> its unlikely to be light-locker or xfce4-power-manager directly causing it
<bluesabre> buttttt, its entirely possibly
<slickymaster> one of the UF admins faced the same with today's image
<knome> butt?
<bluesabre> knome: butt
<slickymaster> who's butt?
<knome> pleia2, lyyyyz! sean is calling me names!
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> >:D
<pleia2> har
<slickymaster> mummy's baby :P
<knome> slickymaster, who isn't?
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> fair point
<knome> time to hack with the xubuntu theme for a change a bit
<Unit193> bluesabre: Anything I need to be helping with?
<knome> Unit193, put your name in the wiki with your media manager of choice so i can bother you later about writing an article
<knome> Unit193, no, you can't tell you love gmb so much now that you pass the stick to me.
<bluesabre> Unit193: know of any pressing issues I should be focused on?
<slickymaster> don't fall for that Unit193 
<slickymaster> it might seem like a mermeid voice, but it's a trap
 * slickymaster hides
<knome> slickymaster, yes, please add yourself there too
<knome> and you, bluesabre 
<knome> and you, pleia2 
<bluesabre> knome: I'll think on it
<knome> 4 birds with one stone
<slickymaster> darn
<bluesabre> I have a music collection, but only stream via pandora or spotify
<knome> bluesabre, then let's write about that then
<Unit193> Looks like I have vlc, vlc-nox, and ffmpeg installed.
<knome> *one then
<Unit193> And like bluesabre, I use pianobar a fair bit.
<knome> Unit193, we can do that too. didn't you do some mpd stuff at some point?
<slickymaster> I'll speak aboutmy vinyl collection
<knome> slickymaster, you can do that briefly
<knome> slickymaster, and please remember, nothing about the vinyl pants!
<knome> NO PICTURES EITHER
<Unit193> knome: Really I just tend to use players, not managers.
<slickymaster> lmao
<bluesabre> knome: added it, its not a media manager, but you can scoff at me later
<knome> Unit193, i really think that's okay too.
<knome> bluesabre, ta
<bluesabre> maybe I'll see where rhythmbox is currently
<knome> Unit193, i mean, we do want to show alternatives people can do
<Unit193> pianobar, vlc, and I've used mpv once or twice. :P
<bluesabre> or tomahawk
<knome> i added the history question too if you want to talk about things you used before
<pleia2> knome: but I use mplayer
<knome> i have used stuff from amarok to listen to mpd before..
<knome> pleia2, that's fine as well :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: I like Debian's tomahawk better. :/
<pleia2> knome: I will look like an old lady
<bluesabre> Unit193: oh?
<knome> but yeah, maybe we want to group some of the "i don't use any media manager" together
<Unit193> nightingale: Installed: 1.13a-0~13196~ubuntu15.10.1
<knome> but still, please add yourself
<knome> so i can track it all
<pleia2> k
<Unit193> !info tomahawk unstable
<ubottu> Package tomahawk does not exist in unstable
<Unit193> !info python-tomahawk unstable
<ubottu> python-tomahawk (source: tomahawk): simple ssh wrapper for executing commands into many hosts. In component main, is optional. Version 0.7.1-2 (unstable), package size 17 kB, installed size 87 kB
<knome> (since no-one from you will want to lead this thing anyway ;()
<bluesabre> Unit193: that... could be used to play music
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yep!  moc baby!
<Unit193> bluesabre: And no, I don't know of anything you should be looking into.  Unless you want to fix the PPA versions. :P
<bluesabre> oh yeah
<bluesabre> should go through those
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<slickymaster> knome, do I have permissions to add a namespace to the wiki?
<knome> good question. try?
<slickymaster> will, just fixing the xubuntu-docs url, in the contacts page
<knome> :)
<slickymaster> currently there it's https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-docs
<slickymaster> that last 's' doesn't belong
 * bluesabre expects knome to rename xubuntu-doc to xubuntu-docs
<slickymaster> it isn't yet bluesabre 
<knome> i do find it a bit weird without s too
<knome> but changing a team name, meh
<knome> and not even name, the slug that's pointed to from gazillion places
<bluesabre> (yeah, don't)
<knome> yep
<slickymaster> yes I can knome 
<slickymaster> done
<knome> can what?
<slickymaster> create a namespace
<knome> ah :)
<slickymaster> Ã£dded the documentation entrance
<knome> when you add "====== Title ======" to namespace/start, you get to change the stupid "start" in the sitemap
<slickymaster> yes, I know
<slickymaster> done that I created it
<slickymaster> + when
<knome> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-12
<slickymaster> I'll start to feed it, with time
<knome> good good
<jfaust> I've been testing 16.10 on a desktop and the power manager plugin shows a battery with (0:00, 0%) instead of the plug icon.  Has anyone else seen this?  Couldn't find anything similar on the xfce bugzilla.
<jfaust> 16.04 :)
<pleia2> jfaust: I recommend running: `ubuntu-bug xfce4-battery-plugin` to submit it to launchpad, part of the submission process will search to see if there are similar bugs, and the tool collects system information so the devs know a bit more about your setup and can try to replicate
<pleia2> I am not familiar with this bug off the top of my head, but the xubuntu bug tracker might know :D
<jfaust> pleia2: thanks!  I'll try 'ubuntu-bug'.  couldn't find any similar bugs in launchpad either.  haven't submitted a bug to launchpad before.  I'm just getting started with testing
<pleia2> jfaust: launchpad is where the devs need the information in order to work through issues, so you should definitely make an account if you want to help us with testing :)
<pleia2> and thanks! we defintely need more folks testing and reporting bugs
<jfaust> pleia2:  happy to help!  i did setup a launchpad account and joined the testing group.  started doing some test cases, but it looks like all of the mandatory tests are completed.  doing exploratory testing now
<pleia2> jfaust: which iso are you testing? the daily images don't have any mandatory tests run yet
<pleia2> today's 64-bit: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/351/builds/112263/testcases
<bluesabre> jfaust: it sounds like you have the Xubuntu daily packages PPA installed, that sounds like xfce4-power-manager 1.5.x
<pleia2> bluesabre: ah, good catch :)
<jfaust> pleia2:  i downloaded the iso on saturday the 6th, but i ran dist-upgrade today.  i did add the xubuntu-dev ppa after a fresh install
<jfaust> bluesabre: i'm not sure how to check the xfce4-power-manager version #
<bluesabre> jfaust: you can check the version number with this command
<bluesabre> xfce4-power-manager --version
<bluesabre> and if you want to create or change the setting for the power manager panel label, you can use
<bluesabre> xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/show-panel-label -s 0 --create
<bluesabre> xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/show-panel-label -s 0
<bluesabre> the value set at the end can be 0, 1, 2, or 3
<jfaust> bluesabre:  thanks!  i'm running 1.5.2  i will try changing the power manager label
<bluesabre> jfaust: np
<bluesabre> heading to bed now, night all
<bluesabre> (ochosi, would be good to set the default panel label value to 0, I might provide a patch for that before you release 1.6.0)
<jfaust> pleia2:  when I run 'ubuntu-bug xfce4-battery-plugin' I get a 'no packages found matching..' message
<pleia2> jfaust: yeah, as bluesabre mentioned you probably want to do: ubuntu-bug xfce4-power-manager
<jfaust> pleia2: ok, I tried that and got a different message: The problem could not be reported: This is not an official Ubuntu package...
<jfaust> pleia2: also having trouble with bluesabre's suggestion to change the label. I'm reading about xfconf now :)
<jfaust> pleia2: ok, I got the (0:00, 0%) label to disappear with bluesabre's suggestion.  I only had to add the type, -t int, to the create command.  it looks like the default is 3 and changing it to 0 hides the label.  however, the icon is still a battery instead of the plug.  I'll keep looking into 'ubuntu-bug'.  thanks a lot for talking with me about it! 
<pleia2> oh yes, using the PPA, I don't remember if you can use the ubuntu-bug too when reporting against those, but I don't have the instructions offhand :\
<jfaust> pleia2:  that makes sense.  I purged the ppa, reverted to xfce4-power-manager 1.4.4 and the behavior is as expected: plug icon with no (0:00, 0%) label.  I'll go back to the PPA for testing and keep looking for how to report bugs.  thanks again for all of your help!  I'm unplugging for the night.
<pleia2> jfaust: thanks for testing, have a good night :)
<jfaust> pleia2:  you too, thanks!
<flocculant> pleia2: http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-bugs.html has ppa reporting in it
<flocculant> knome: so re the media manager articles - where do you want people to send them? write them to? 
<flocculant> slickymaster: when yo expecting to get the slideshow done? 
<slickymasterWork> late March
<slickymasterWork> the slideshow is always one of the last things to deal with, flocculant 
<flocculant> yes
<flocculant> I know that - just was asking 
<slickymasterWork> are you thinking in going ahead and starting to work on it?
<flocculant> so - it needs to not be late march ... 
<flocculant> mid-march at the latest, final beta is 21/22 March
<slickymasterWork> wfm
<slickymasterWork> don't see any issue with that
<flocculant> and no - not thinking about working on it :)
<slickymasterWork> can't blame me for trying ;)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> happy to help when it comes 
<flocculant> no idea what we want it to say for 3 years tbh 
 * slickymasterWork knows that :)
<slickymasterWork> the former, not the later 
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1533200
<ubottu> bug 1533200 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Black background at first login" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1533200
<flocculant> background on first boot isn't black indeed, but it is blue and isn't the default wallpaper till one has logged in/out
<bluesabre> flocculant: yes, that's because its the plymouth background
<bluesabre> flocculant: I don't think we have a plymoth dev background
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - cool - just making sure :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: cool :)
<knome> flocculant, for now, add yourself to the list; once the list is ready (and suggestions are sent to improve the questions, if any), i'll be in touch again
<flocculant> knome: okey doke
<knome> but of course you can prepare to answer the questions in the list ;)
<flocculant> not really sure what to do currently - clementine works - just not out the box - pulse and it are still broken :p
<flocculant> knome: and yea understood :)
<dkessel> uh-oh... systemd upgrade problems on my way to 16.04..... "leaving package unconfigured" is probably not what i want.....
<dkessel> same for "init" - well, who needs that one :D
<dkessel> this is going to be an interesting reboot after that
<flocculant> upgrade in 16.04 or going from something to 16.04?
<dkessel> from 15.10
<flocculant> bug 1527574 perhaps
<ubottu> bug 1527574 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "upgrading ufw, libc-bin, initramfs-tools, systemd, and others: triggers looping, abandoned" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527574
<dkessel> maybe. yet i also had some ppas active...
<flocculant> so did that bug 
<Unit193> d-r-u disables them.
<dkessel> yeah but does it purge them?
<dkessel> well... lets see how it turns out
<flocculant> knome: this the sort of thing you're wanting? "How do you listen to music? Sometimes quietly, sometimes annoyingly loud :)" 
<knome> :P
<knome> the subitems should help you figure out
<flocculant> :D
<knome> oh gosh i DO need to write a dokuwiki plugin
<Unit193> Sometimes Skrillex, really loud, going down the highway at 77MPH.
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> knome: started - have a comment almost immediately now I have :p
<flocculant> we should have the 'what you use' first 
<flocculant> otherwise it's read some stuff, read some more, then 'oh this one uses this application' 
<knome> maybe
<knome> i did think about that...
<knome> but then i wondered if it would actually be more helpful to start with the "how"
<knome> if we start with the app name, does anybody read below that? :P
<flocculant> possibly 
<flocculant> or perhaps put app name in title 
<knome> yeah
<dkessel> flocculant: bug 1544954 - funny enough everything seems normal after reboot... apart from a dozen apport popups :)
<ubottu> bug 1544954 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update from wily to xenial fails, lots of package installation errors" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1544954
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> there are a few things i don't like about dokuwiki, but i'll let them be for now...
<flocculant> knome: ok - done that when you want it
<knome> flocculant, ok, thanks :)
<knome> flocculant, actually, push it to the website as a draft article
<knome> because that's where it'll end up anyway
<flocculant> oh okey doke
<knome> that way we can get the formatting consistent too etc.
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> knome: ok I did that - completely unformatted though, didnt know what you wanted it too look like so left it bare
<knome> flocculant, sure, that's completely fine :)
<flocculant> :)
<slickymasterWork> done the media manager item, knome 
<flocculant> cop out ... 
<flocculant> :p
<knome> jjfrv8, did you get a confirmation mail about your wiki registration, or are you still waiting for one?
<knome> jjfrv8, if latter, ping me and i'll PM you a new password so you can actually access stuff
<jjfrv8> knome, yes, I got the email and was able to log in and add my entry.
<knome> great!
<knome> thanks :)
<jjfrv8> thank you :)
<pleia2> flocculant: I should have known :) thanks
<flocculant> pleia2: :)
<knome> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/team/sandbox
<knome> \o/
<knome> this is SOOOO much better
<flocculant> :D
<knome> compared to http://wiki.xubuntu.org/team/sandbox?do=index, that is
<knome> maybe it would be nice to add some css for it, but the structure is now good imo
<knome> also, should probably figure out if i can override the current default sitemap completely
<knome> bluesabre, a question, would you consider pithos a cloud media player?
<knome> i mean, does it manage local collection?
<bluesabre> knome: it is a cloud media player
<bluesabre> there are no local files
<bluesabre> I think I mentioned that before, and you said put it up there anyway ;)
<bluesabre> or I misinterpreted
<knome> i just didn't focus so well
<knome> but good that it's there, let's group it with the rest who say they only use cloud stuff
<bluesabre> knome: cool
<bluesabre> testing some others to see what I would recommend
<knome> :D
<bluesabre> so there is something to contribute from me :)
<knome> hehe, good good
<knome> then maybe we can do an "other options" article after all
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-13
<amerigena> Noticed same bug with Dropbox on two 16.04 installs - broken indicator icon, no dropdown menu. Is this a known issue with Xenial, or should I try reporting a bug?
<amerigena> I've installed using the 64-bit .deb and through aptitude.
<amerigena> Same result
<amerigena> Can post a screenshot if helpful
<dkessel> flocculant: about clementine - you mean the noise it makes when playing stuff?
<dkessel> i hadn't run clementine since upgrading to 16.04 yesterday ;)
<dkessel> but i just tried and got some very unpleasant noise
<flocculant> dkessel: yea - exactly that :D
<flocculant> you want fix :p
<dkessel> yeah?
<dkessel> pretty please? :)
<flocculant> install gstreamer1.0-alsa
<flocculant> go to playback prefs
<flocculant> set output device to the alsa output - apply 
<flocculant> bug 1537184
<ubottu> bug 1537184 in clementine (Ubuntu) "'Buzzing' during playback" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1537184
<dkessel> ok thanks great :) and there is the bug i was going to ask about...
<flocculant> https://github.com/clementine-player/Clementine/issues/5221
<flocculant> that one too
<flocculant> finally bug 1539700
<ubottu> bug 1539700 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "Audio cd's play with background buzzing" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1539700
<Unit193> Heh, poke Rohan Garg about syncing libmygpo-qt from Debian.
<Unit193> (clementine 1.3~rc1 is in Depwait because of it.)
<flocculant> maybe
<flocculant> all I know is that clementine went south when gst-plugins-base or -bad got updates
<flocculant> can't remember which now
<flocculant> and the problem when there are clementine problems like this is they blame ubuntu's versions of things
<flocculant> given that clementine appears to work with the same versions of pulse etc outside of ubuntu - they appear to have a valid point
<Unit193> flocculant: Downgrading libgstreamer-plugins-base1.0 gstreamer1.0-plugins-base gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-1.0 to wily versions fixed it.
<flocculant> yea thought it might be something like that
<Unit193> Looks like just downgrading gstreamer1.0-plugins-base will work, after upgrading the other still no issues.
<Unit193> Upgrading that one breaks it, and downgrading just that fixes.  So yes, that.  Now time to see what else uses it, and if they're borked too.
<flocculant> Unit193: not found any other music player that's borked 
<flocculant> though it seems that cd's in rhythmbox and goobox (wth that is) is broken
<Unit193> In that case I'd say try pulling the extra lib and clem from Debian. :P
<flocculant> well that's easy for you to say - if I start flailing about looking for debian packages I soon lose the will to live :p
<flocculant> and immediately appearr to find clementine ...
<flocculant> what other one - gstreamer? 
<Unit193> http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/pool/main/libm/libmygpo-qt/libmygpo-qt1_1.0.9~git20151122-1_amd64.deb and http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/pool/main/c/clementine/clementine_1.3~rc1-1_amd64.deb but meh.
<Unit193> I'd do it, but I just purged everything again...  I may try later if you don't though.
<flocculant> no different here with those two from debian
<flocculant> no idea - it's just all fubar for sure 
<Unit193> OK, and pulling that gst didn't either.  Worth a shot.
<flocculant> oh crud
<flocculant> totally forgot about gstreamer ... 
<flocculant> ok - so the gst/gpo/clem from debian and all works as expected
<Unit193> ...gst from experimental, eg 1.7.1-1?
<flocculant> seems not
<Unit193> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?product=GStreamer&component=gst-plugins-base&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&form_name=query%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20 300+ open bugs, yey.
<flocculant> Unit193: ok with gst 1.7.1-1/clem 1.3~rc and libmygpo 1.0.9~git - still not right
<Unit193> Yeah, that's what I saw.  Seems like it's either gst or interactions between the two.  At least you're a little further than you were.  Could try actual Debian later today.
<flocculant> unless something happens with something ubuntu need I doubt anything would change - not seeing the point tbh - can't see they'd care about whether clementine works or not
<flocculant> they might wake up when they realise cd's in rhythmbox are meh
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-14
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah sure, a patch would be welcome :)
<flocculant> ochosi: some nice images at https://unsplash.com/collections :)
<flocculant> and hi :)
<knome> pleia2, just want to make sure you have seen bug 1544314 (because we don't use https as the default/enforced when possible yet)
<ubottu> bug 1544314 in Xubuntu Website "Change links for kubuntu and xubuntu to point to https rather than http" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1544314
<knome> pleia2, also, we should reply gabor about the flash drive promotion
<flocculant> bluesabre: trusty .4 is up now 
<flocculant> mmm - seeing thunar oddity too - plug in a usb drive, then unmount and eject - and it remounts itself - not has that with this thunar version (nor previously)
<knome> flocculant, do we plan to do a release announcement for .4?
<flocculant> knome: I guess we could do a short one
<knome> yep
<flocculant> might be worth finding out when .5 is - because if it's 2017 then we need to also say it will be the last one :)
 * knome checks
<knome> not in the release schedule
<flocculant> indeed - you checked before I could tell you :P)
<knome> are we sure there will even be one? i thought .4 was the last one
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> I would suspect so - ubuntu will have it till 2019 
<knome> right, 12.04 had .5 too..
<flocculant> yep
<knome> that was in august 2014
<knome> so i would suspect it would happen in august 2016 for 14.04 too
<flocculant> yep August - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack#Kernel.2BAC8-Support.A14.04.x_Ubuntu_Kernel_Support
<knome> mm right, that's a completely different beast
<knome> though .4 HWE kernel is only supported for 6 months
<flocculant> regardless of the detail - I would guess .5 will happen in our 3 years - which is all we really need know this week
<knome> here's how i look at it:
<knome> if the HWE in .4 was supported until the 3 years end, it might be okay not to release .5
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> agree
<knome> mostly because .5 is a completely different kernel line
<knome> (again)
<flocculant> the issue at hand is whether we mention that .4 is the last one we'll see or not
<knome> though we already went over the kernel 3.x -> 4.x bump with HWE..
<knome> i know
<flocculant> if we can't be sure then we need not mention .5 this week :)
<knome> but this is important :)
<flocculant> yes
<flocculant> but not this week it isn't :D
<knome> because ultimately we can decide it's the last one even if .5 happens before the 3y
<knome> no, it is because that ^
<flocculant> well if we can have that discussion at the next meeting (wed) then we'll know what to announce with .4
<knome> mhm
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack#A12.04.5_.2B-_14.04_Hardware_Enablement_Stack_Policies_and_Procedures
<knome> that's kind of interesting read too
<knome> because i would imagine the policy with 14.04.5/16.04 kernel is similar
<flocculant> I would imagine so 
<knome> i would say we'll want to officially release .5, but i would check with our technical lead too ;)
<knome> (and i guess it's not the worst situation to not say it's the last one even if it was - opposite to saying it was and then it wasn't)
<flocculant> yea
<knome> dkessel, ping
<flocculant> which is probably where we were 15 minutes ago :)
<knome> hehe
<flocculant> biab
<flocculant> I hope dkessel got music working yesterday :)
<knome> mm
<dkessel> knome, flocculant , yes?
<dkessel> flocculant: sure, setting clementine to als helped. But I didn't need to play music anyway
<knome> dkessel, my ping is related to the same thing... since you are using the same player as flocculant, would you mind trying to get to answer the questions related to the media manager article series
<knome> dkessel, fwiw, we're trying to group people who use the same managers to single articles - and you can even see the answers flocculant gave when you log in to the site and go look at the drafts
<knome> (if you need help with logging etc., just tell me)
<dkessel> ok I will have a look when I get back to the laptop.
<knome> sure, no critical rush
<knome> ;)
<dkessel> knome: tried to open the preview page. it gives me "page not found" for https://xubuntu.org/?p=3711&preview=true
<flocculant> that's because you're not logged in
<dkessel> i logged out and in again...
<dkessel> shouldn't the link be wiki.xubuntu.org/...?
<knome> no
<flocculant> dkessel: no - you need website
<dkessel> oh well....
<knome> PM'ing
<knome> gone
<knome> err
<knome> done
<dkessel> aaah
<knome> and now, the other one:
<knome> gone
<knome> ttyl
<flocculant> nice upgrade 14.04 to 16.04 crashed
<flocculant> good job it was just a vm smoketest
<pleia2> knome: replied to gabor
<pleia2> knome: and yeah, I'm subbed to 1544314
<pleia2> I guess it makes sense for an iso download, even though many of the mirrors are not https so there's still a security gap
<krytarik> That's not a gap though.
<pleia2> the user won't be able to tell whether the http download site is being hijacked
<pleia2> we can link to all the http sites we want ;) if someone is spoofing one of those, it's a problem
<pleia2> nothing we can do about that though
<knome> pleia2, i also had some finnish person contact me directly about them not finding *sums from https sites
<knome> not just xubuntu, but ubuntu too
 * pleia2 nods
 * pleia2 fails at g+ but finally gets 14.04.4 test info there and on fb
<flocculant> bug 1545492
<ubottu> bug 1545492 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "upgrader hung at libparted2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1545492
<flocculant> not that this is anything to do with the 14.04 efforts :)
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks :D
 * pleia2 works on twitter
<pleia2> alright, that's done
<knome> expecting some goodies to land at x.org beginning of next week
<knome> including new, imageless header art!
<flocculant> confirmed that upgrader hang ... 
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-06
<akxwi-dave> morning
<flocculant> davmor2: are you the oem whizzkid? if so - do you test oem and encryption? 
<davmor2> flocculant: no due to the fact that an oem would have to set an encryption key password which would null and void the whole point of the encryption :)
<davmor2> flocculant: oem is a mode that is used as stand alone, you can test with encryption it's just not the typical way it would ship
<flocculant> that was what I thought - just checking :)
 * flocculant toddles of out again
<flocculant> knome: when you've got 30 minutes ish :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: something occurs to me - 14.04 goes EOL, I assume 3years after release, which is in ~2 months - do we start telling users soon? 
<knome> flocculant, yes?
<knome> :)
<knome> my take on EOL is that we can wait until the EOL date as the core system is supported anyway
<knome> it's not like the world collapses 3 years after the release
<knome> but we should probably start preparing the news etc.
<flocculant> ack on core being supported
<flocculant> so we wait till it's EOL - then tell people at the same time as it being EOL - instead of giving some warning?
<flocculant> that's friendly ;)
<knome> heh
<knome> well, i'll happily hear other opinions
<knome> i just don't know if it's sensible to shout that 14.04 will be EOL very early either
<knome> at least before we have a new thunar SRU on 16.04
<flocculant> well it's LTS - and it goes EOL in ~2 months
<flocculant> and yea - would be goot to sru thunar for 16.04 absolutely
<flocculant> just got my head in taskmanager for a few minutes for ochosi 
<knome> part of my rationale is that we don't support releases for 3 years because we don't have the manpower to do more
<knome> but in case we don't feel like the next LTS is quite ready (which is unforunate), we still *can* as the core is supported to
<knome> it would be different IMO if the ubuntu core was also only supported for 3 years
<knome> then we would definitely want to make sure people upgrade soon
<flocculant> ochosi: so played about with columns add yea as you saw - all over the place http://paste.ubuntu.com/23942957/
<flocculant> knome: yea I would agree with that sentiment
<knome> so maybe schedule an article a few weeks before the EOL date and another one on EOL, or sth
<flocculant> 4 would be the week prior to beta 1 freeze
<flocculant> final beta
<knome> so we don't want 3 weeks at least
<flocculant> nearly had kittens then - cos that's next week :D
<flocculant> 3 weeks would be final beta week
<flocculant> but yea - some time before then again on eol makes sense
<flocculant> anyway - was a passing thought mostly brought on by me remembering the last couple of eol's ' oh - we're eol now - best tell people'
<knome> mhm
<knome> yep
<flocculant> so - and I think we've possibly had this discussion previously ...
<flocculant> anyway to have some sort of freeform text box at http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-qa
<flocculant> bit sort of blueprint whiteboardish
<knome> right'o
<knome> will look at that
<flocculant> knome: reasoning for that is things like the folder/image issue we're seeing in desktop settings
<flocculant> someone mentioned it to me - I looked - asked ochosi where to report it - then it got forgotten by everyone - then Simon mentioned it - then Sean did - but nothing had been written down anywhere
<flocculant> now - seems that we just need somewhere to note qa/dev issues to me until reported 'somewhere'
<knome> yep, that seems all fair and doable
<flocculant> if it's loads of work then qa blueprint whiteboard will suffice
<knome> nah
<flocculant> ok - ta :)
<flocculant> I'd rather it was on the tracker - and on the qa tab - seems best place for it till it's properly reported
<flocculant> ochosi: moving columsn - seems to be no specific pattern to what works and what doesn't
<ochosi> yeah, it's fairly random in my experience too
<flocculant> same with hiding/adding - though at some point task disappears and then comes back 
<ochosi> but it's sorta broken i guess
<ochosi> as far as i can tell it's even broken in the current release
<ochosi> restarting the taskmanager fixes the visible columns i think
<flocculant> ochosi: well - I didn't manage to break current
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> humm
<ochosi> btw, any news from robert on the greeter issue?
<flocculant> ochosi: noticed something else - in current - box for the tick, in git - no box
<ochosi> box for the tick?
<flocculant> ochosi: nope - waiting for him to wake a bit then ping him
<ochosi> i guess i need a screenshot for that
<flocculant> ochosi: where you choose which columns 
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/MxPoE67.png is current
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/Ph77Svs.png is git
<ochosi> that's just gtk3 (current) vs. gtk2
<ochosi> you could build git with "./autogen.sh --enable-gtk3" then they would look the same
<flocculant> ochosi: aah ok :)
<flocculant>  ochosi bluesabre - reply from robert in -desktop re locking bug
<ochosi> well if he has it on his "to fix" list, i'm happy
<ochosi> i trust him
 * flocculant wonders if a mail to our testers re that and maybe replacing with gnome-screensaver or something in the interim would be an idea 
<flocculant> ochosi: yea :)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-07
<bluesabre> flocculant, yes, we should certainly prepare for EOL
<bluesabre> flocculant, glad that robert is on it, likely safe that he'll get to it, and we can switch lockers at any time
<Unit193> What's the "status" of thunar?
<bluesabre> "shakey"
<Unit193> Meh.  They keep talking about SRU'ing, but nothing to SRU yet so seems a bit moot to me.
<bluesabre> yup
<Unit193> Otherwise, I'd just dput the current one. :P
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Interesting experimental garcon hasn't hit Debian exp.
<Unit193> Looking at https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xfce4-gtk3/+packages?field.series_filter=zesty seems maybe only libxfce4ui can go into Zesty.
<bluesabre> Definitely a good place to start
<Unit193> I wouldn't want to push garcon without Debian picking it up first, that's bitten us before.
<bluesabre> no hurry for that one, I think
<Unit193> bluesabre: Pokepoke xfdashy? :P
<bluesabre> indeed, need to do that
 * bluesabre does it now
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfdashboard_0.6.1-0ubuntu1.dsc there's that. :3
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxfce4ui/4.13.1-1ubuntu1
<bluesabre> Done
<Unit193> Danke.
<Unit193> And somehow, I actually triggered queuebot this time.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I think I found a bug in xfwm :o
<bluesabre> Also, nice to see vbox ignoring my gtk theme again
<Unit193> Yes, I mentioed this the other day regarding Qt(5) and the theme, in theory qt5-style-plugins is supposed to help, but it didn't for me and VLC looked as ugly or even worse. :(
<Unit193> You can check things like the Arch wiki or Debian info for it, but meh.
<bluesabre> boo
<bluesabre> You'd think incompatibilities would decrease over time
<bluesabre> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13338 :D
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13338 in General "Windows can no longer be resized after marked unresizable once" [Normal,New]
<bluesabre> Unit193, we haven't reported the gtk file chooser bug yet, right? I can submit it to the Ubuntu and Gnome bug trackers tomorrow
<Unit193> Not as far as I know, no.
<bluesabre> Cool, will do
<bluesabre> Nighty all
<Unit193> G'night.
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - had more goes at copy/pasting etc - no errors
<Unit193> Relevant to the above: The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (85% of Full)
<flocculant> and there is no rain
<flocculant> "I'm going to start correlating crashes in thunar against weather patterns ..."
<knome> based on my real-life-testing as well this seems to be better
<knome> even if it didn't fix all the crashes
<knome> let me rephrase...
<knome> i haven't had any crashes since the upgrade, so this seems better even if some of you have reported some
<knome> :)
<knome> now some grocery shopping
<flocculant> well - some appears to be me
<knome> yes, at least i've noticed you mentioning at least one
<flocculant> perhaps expecting it to do what I asked - move some stuff about - is too much to ask 
<knome> :P
<knome> that's an "old" crash though, right?
<knome> so no regression
<flocculant> ?
<knome> i mean... has this crash with moving happened before?
<flocculant> I'm talking about with this new pair of patches
<knome> or only with the new patch?
<knome> s/patch/patches/
<flocculant> I had crashes before - but it crashed seemingly when it had finished doing  the 'whatever'
<knome> anyway, brb
<flocculant> now I get crashes half way through 'whatever'
<flocculant> yea - I'll be gone I suspect
<flocculant> I'm still of the opinion that we should ditch thunar
<slickymasterWork> my query is simple, knome
<slickymasterWork> will you also be reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/xubuntu-docs/cont1704/+merge/315620
<knome> yes, i probably should
<slickymasterWork> thought so
<knome> i'll do that now so we can proceed with it...
<slickymasterWork> I claim the review but thought you also should do ot
<slickymasterWork> since you and flocculant talked about it before he proposed it
<slickymasterWork> I'll take a look at it this weekend when I arrive home
<knome> oki
<Unit193> Someone touching the docs. :3
<knome> touching the tra-la-la
<knome> (:
<bluesabre> :D
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-08
<Unit193> bluesabre: Poke.
<Unit193> flocculant: Could be worse, if you install thunar-gtkhash and try to open properties of any file, thunar crashes. :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: Looking at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/zesty/xubuntu and http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/xubuntu.zesty/supported I think we should put xfdashy since we plan on supporting it.  Also, we have a few thunar plugins, but not gtkhash (another source package, don't want it) and thunar-dropbox-plugin, which we also may not want.  I'm not sure if 
<Unit193> there's anything else we maintain, but don't ship we might want to add in there (-pulseaudio is already there.)
<flocculant> knome: "Is there a specific reason we drop the direct link? If we do that, it would be probably fine to merge these two paragraphs together for good." yes there is a specific reason - it takes ages to get our docs updated - and this is still pointing at xenial ...
<knome> ;)
<knome> ok
<knome> fair enough
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> Please use â instead of - only got - on my kbd
<knome> copy-pasta?
<flocculant> perhaps standardise PPA's and ISO's to PPAs and ISOs - easier to type :)
<knome> yep
<knome> as i wrote, anything with that works for me
<flocculant> anyway - I'll wait for slickymaster then finish it sometime in the next cycle 
<flocculant> seems to be the doc method :p
<flocculant> yea - makes no difference to me either
<bluesabre> Unit193, thanks for the info, we definitely want to add xfdashboard to supported, and probably any of the thunar plugins (that are just thunar plugins), since we're kinda in charge of them by default
<flocculant> afternoon
<flocculant> Unit193: not crashing here :p
<flocculant> \o/ for thunar's weather responsive crash pattern :)
<knome> bluesabre, ping?
<flocculant> knome: what's with 2â3 instead 2 -3 anyway?
<knome> that's the proper sign to use... :P
<knome> or character tbe
<krytarik> A hyphen in this case though.
<knome> no
<knome> NO
<knome> :)
<krytarik> Yes!
<knome> whenever you denote a scale like "two to three" you should use an en dash
<knome> not a hyphen
<knome> this is the most important thing i learned while studying...
<knome> the en dash in this context is called "rajakohtailmausviiva" in finnish, fwiw
<knome> :P
<flocculant> studying what?
<knome> social services :P
<flocculant> and obv I meant 2 - 3 not 2 -3
<knome> spacing should be stripped too :P
<flocculant> so this hugely important thing in English - doesn't appear on a UK keyboard ... 
<knome> http://open.knome.fi/2011/10/17/give-me-the-endash/
<knome> it doesn't in a finnish keyboard either
<knome> but i think that's a misjudgement :P
<flocculant> just because it's on the internet doesn't make it right ... 
<knome> are we arguing about this the whole night again :)
<flocculant> nope - I got some stuff to do in a bit :p
<knome> :P
<flocculant> just got some thunar crash again 
<flocculant> sigh
<flocculant> anyway - I'll wait for slickymaster before I do more - he can weigh in on the ISOs/ISO's thing too :p
<Unit193> ochosi: -glade is actually in zesty.
<Unit193> !info libxfce4ui-glade zesty
<ubottu> libxfce4ui-glade (source: libxfce4ui): glade API for libxfce4ui. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.13.1-1ubuntu1 (zesty), package size 4 kB, installed size 31 kB
<Unit193> Ooooh, I was going to have someone look at the description first, whoops.
<ochosi> awesome sauce Unit193 
<Unit193> flocculant: Really?  Did you killall Thunar  first?  I get it everywhere I try. :3
<Unit193> ochosi: So once you bump to Zesty, you can play with it. :P
<ochosi> flocculant: the question is though whether that is still the original issue that was reported there or whether you're just seeing some other bug/crash. i'd try to really separate the testcases, cause that helps the developers a lot to reproduce and determine where it comes from
<Unit193> Oh, didn't you have a taskman coming down the pipes?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i actually have two(!) taskman releases in the pipe
<ochosi> one is the last gtk2/3 release, and i also have a gtk3-only port that is practically ready
<Unit193> Which is for Zesty?
<ochosi> not sure, that's up to us
<ochosi> i'll probably release 1.2.0 tonight
<ochosi> and then merge the gtk3_only branch to master
<ochosi> so translators can start to work on the few changed strings
<ochosi> you can try it out if you want
<ochosi> it has headerbars, so you're probably not going to like it ;)
<ochosi> https://github.com/ochosi/xfce4-taskmanager/tree/gtk3_only
<ochosi> i'd be happy about some feedback
<flocculant> Unit193: had reboots in the mix
<flocculant> ochosi: not convinced that the bug report in question isn't a bunch of different things anyway :(
<ochosi> well it has been polluted by various different topics i'd say
<ochosi> but the rename bug seems gone, for me at least
<flocculant> yea agree on that
<ochosi> moving may still crash it sometimes, as your testing suggests, but the renaming seems stable
<ochosi> so i'd prefer to push the patch to master and close the bugreport, to establish a new baseline which people can test and then more cleanly report new bugs that pop up
<flocculant> in which case we've got thunar crashing out on moving and copying
<ochosi> well tbh it never happens to me
<ochosi> so it doesn't seem excessive or clearly reproducible (at least to me, so far)
<flocculant> on this topic - from an Xubuntu pov - we've got 14.04 going eol soon - replaced by an lts with a broken file manager - from a qa point this just gets worse :p
<flocculant> ochosi: I crashed it a while back moving 1 file
<Unit193> ochosi: Correct, but I use htop anyway so don't have to replace it.
<Unit193> flocculant: Huh, OK..
<flocculant> Unit193: this is with the git thunar
<flocculant> ochosi: patch/patches?
<Unit193> Mine has been 1.6.10-2ubuntu3~17.04.0
<flocculant> right - I removed that one and went back to git
<flocculant> Unit193: ok so - removed git, got ~17.04.0 and i/o error on trying properties on a file and a crash
<ochosi> for LTS we can try and SRU once everything has been merged to master and released
<ochosi> that would definitely improve the experience of those in 16.04
<Unit193> Hrm, actually what else are you planning to use headerbars on?
<flocculant> ochosi: so re Thunar - I guess I'm the only one reporting that they've got major issues still with it as far as copying/moving things
<ochosi> Unit193: not sure, this is just an experiment with taskmanager, also to get more feedback from the community
<ochosi> now that the topic seems less flamey
<ochosi> in theory it shouldn't be hard to make it a compile-time switch
<ochosi> or even an option, but it feels a little over-the-top to me
<flocculant> Unit193: so what difference is there between ppa thunar and git - I thought none? but this is the same as when I was testing last week - easier with the ppa one ...
<Unit193> I thought the git version was easier to crash last time?
<flocculant> ... went for Restart Later, got Restart Now
<flocculant> Unit193: not that I remember 
<Unit193> OK good, the version in Ubuntu crashes with gtkhash now, so no regressions.
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> At this point, the patches seem to help some, so as long as there's no regressions from adding them, I think ochosi wants them in.
<flocculant> to be honest a mate using xubuntu does the same sort of large file movements - he's seen the same issues as me
<flocculant> Unit193: ack - I'd say they help some - as did the last ones - certainly don't make it worse
<flocculant> and I agree it might be better to re-report with a clean bug once that master has patches 
<flocculant> which won't be hard for me to do :)
<ochosi> Unit193: hrrrm, the german translation was only updated to 88%, i think i'll have to give the guy another day to finish
<Unit193> Alrighty, nobody said which we'll go with so no rush. :P
<ochosi> other than that, i've prepared the release notes for the 1.2 release of the task manager
<ochosi> flocculant: have you tried this one yet (which claims to fix moving and it's from two days ago): https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12260
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12260 in core "Thunar crash on cut/paste multiple files" [Critical,Reopened]
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-09
<bluesabre> knome, pong
<flocculant> ochosi: nope - will have a look later today 
<flocculant> question - is git://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar master and now will have the other 2 patches in it - so I only need grab the one from 12260?
<ochosi> flocculant: yup
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - thanks :)
<flocculant> I'll bash that to sodom and gomorrah later then - maybe we can get that in too if it works well :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> thanks
<knome> bluesabre, well that was late...
<knome> bluesabre, but i guess the question was if we are allowing lock on live systems, and whether we should look into not doing that
<bluesabre> knome, I believe we disable it
<knome> then it was likely a bug a person was experiencing yesterday
<Unit193> bluesabre: In xubuntu-live-settings, it's supposed to.
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> light-locker is still installed live, and could theoretically be launched
<flocculant> it for sure can - I test that when we're having cyclical lock issues 
<flocculant> ftr - the ubuntu live doesn't lock
<ali1234> hmm.. that new thunar patch looks very good to me
<ali1234> looks like exactly the kind of race condition i'd expect to cause random crashes
<ochosi> ali1234: if you wanna review another upcoming patch, there's one on the move-crash bug
<ali1234> that's the one i mean, i think
<ali1234> the one posted two days ago
<ali1234> going to write a comment
<flocculant> ochosi: not seeing anything happen I wouldn't expect
<flocculant> Unit193: not seeing crash with gtkhash installed
<flocculant> ochosi: commented 
<ochosi> flocculant: awesome sauce. i'll push that one too
<flocculant> ochosi: guessing so - it's working here - and it's not made things worse :)
<ochosi> can you send another email for testers?
<ochosi> then i can maybe to a thunar release with this patch on the weekend
<ochosi> and we can get to SRUing
<flocculant> ochosi: to test with master + the newest patch?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> to see whether all move crashes are resolved
<ochosi> are there any other open bugs on your side?
<ochosi> or is it stable now?
<flocculant> seems stable here
<flocculant> I'm a bit confused as to why master + patch(es) doesn't crash with gtkhash like the ppa one?
<flocculant> but rather unwilling to confuse the issue too much :)
<ochosi> good idea ;)
<ochosi> especially if it resolves more bugs than advertised!
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> or maybe Unit193 can update the ppa with this patch
<ochosi> bbabl
<flocculant> k
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-netload-plugin 1.3.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-netload-plugin-1-3-1-released-tp48872.html (by Landry Breuil-2)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-systemload-plugin 1.2.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-systemload-plugin-1-2-1-released-tp48873.html (by Landry Breuil-2)
<flocculant> ochosi: mail away
<ochosi> flocculant: thanks a bunch!
<flocculant> ochosi: if you've not seen it yet - pointed responses to 12260 
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> much better because direct
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> once this has all worked it's way through - I'll be interested to see th egtk3 thunar :p
<ochosi> haha
 * flocculant has never really taken much notice of xfce bugs and patches and things - not sure why
<ochosi> it all just was too stable for too long ;)
<flocculant> lol
<flocculant> then thunar ... 
<ochosi> actually it's a mix of thunar and glib
<ochosi> but anyhow, i think we'll get through this
<flocculant> well yea - but I noticed thunar going splat :p
<flocculant> perhaps I'll get more involved with xfce qa 
<ochosi> that'd be awesome
<knome> hooray
<ochosi> then i need to give you edit rights in bugzilla though
<knome> haha
<ochosi> most components need a serious bug cleanup
<flocculant> except you'd see me whine in more than 1 place ;)
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> i've cleaned up the bugzillas for some components, but it just doesn't last very long
<flocculant> I did once look at a bug list there and start working through which were dead - then I was much the same and stopped :p
<Unit193> ochosi: In place of current ones?
<ochosi> Unit193: i guess master+the move patch
<ochosi> do we carry a lot moreÃ
<ochosi> ?
<Unit193> The two we were trying.
<Unit193> Ah, the email answers that. :)
<flocculant> Unit193: I'm still befuddled by the gtkhash thing :)
<Unit193> flocculant: Indeed, but luckily we don't care about that. :D
<flocculant> if the ppa becomes master plus this latest patch - I'll try again :D
<flocculant> nope - just odd
<Unit193> I was just going to stack the next one.
<flocculant> should that not be the same though
<Unit193> I'd have to boot the VM and get everything setup for getting a distcheck from thunar though. :3
<Unit193> flocculant: Unless you want to enter the thunar git souce dir and run  make distcheck  giving me the resulting tar? :3
<flocculant> what thunar git source dir? 
<flocculant> the one I've got here? 
<flocculant> Unit193: ^^
<ochosi> Unit193: we really need a jenkins to do that...
<Unit193> flocculant: Yep.
<ochosi> jenkins with some docker nodes that build the crap out of those packages and deploy to launchpad
<flocculant> ochosi: oh no = that jenkins word
<flocculant> Unit193: I can - with the patch?
<Unit193> flocculant: Likely better without, but not too picky.
<flocculant> Unit193: likely called Thunar-1.6.10git-35e65ab.tar.bz2 ?
<Unit193> Yep.
<flocculant> not very big - but sent 
<flocculant> Unit193: give me an e-mail it doesn't get bounced from :p
<flocculant> This message was blocked because its content presents a potential 552-5.7.0 security issue.
<Unit193> Hah, niice.
<Unit193> That one should work.
<flocculant> k
<Unit193> Got it. danke.
<flocculant> welcome 
<flocculant> Unit193: was without patch btw
 * flocculant wanders off now 
<Unit193> ochosi: Oh, there ye go.
<ochosi> ty
<Unit193> Oh good, Sean is here to save you.
 * bluesabre is struggling to save himself
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+packages?field.name_filter=thunar new test thunar version, though you couldn't even crash the last. :P
<bluesabre> oh boy new thunar
<bluesabre> most promising version so far
<bluesabre> renames without dying *and* without losing which file it was just looking at
<bluesabre> I approve
 * Unit193 dputs it to Ubuntu, git snapshot and all! :P
<Unit193> I also spoke to Corsac, warned him and wondered if he'd be able to get an unblock on it.
<Unit193> I figure we'll want the ristretto, xfce4-terminal, and xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin (GTK2) updates in.
<bluesabre> Yes indeed
<bluesabre> and thanks for reaching out to Corsac
<Unit193> (Debian is in freeze now, pretty much like our FF except they don't default-allow, you have to file an unblock for the migration to happen.)
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> in the case of Thunar though, definitely worthwhile
<Unit193> +1
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-10
<Unit193> I should likely mention I left whisker for you.
<Unit193> flocculant: Is the top of the screen in zesty a bit cut off?  Not very much mind you, just a hair.
<Unit193> My panel is up there, and everything is torn just a bit.
<Unit193> X.Org 1.18.4, nvidia 304.134
<flocculant> 1:7.7+16ubuntu2 and nouveau > http://i.imgur.com/Z7imqER.png 
<flocculant> looks ok here
<flocculant> xserver-corg-core is 1.18.4
<Unit193> Yeah I presume we're on the same versions of x and friends.
<flocculant> Unit193: not sure if the top of the panel is a bit cut off with nvidia - I just get blank screen/no signal and monitor turns off ;)
<flocculant> will look at that properly later 
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  re bug 1663298 - laos tried today on a 20gb VBox vm anling debian and works fine as well
<ubottu> bug 1663298 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu 16.04.2 has no auto-resize installation option" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1663298
<akxwi-dave> along side*
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: was that laos or also also a typo? 
<flocculant> :p
<flocculant> Unit193: yup - definitely something odd going on with nvidia drivers here :p neither 304 nor 340 give me anything but a turned off monitor - also checked in my 'never done anything here but install and update it' zesty 
<flocculant> weird - add nomodeset at grub it works - add it to etc default grub and it fails :p
<flocculant> glad I never use nvidia drivers
<ochosi> flocculant: hmm, do you think it's realistic that we'll get some more test results for the thunar patch soonish?
<ochosi> plus (i may have asked this before, don't remember the answer though) were there any other showstopperish issues/bugs with thunar?
<flocculant> ochosi: probably not realistic - though 1 person did test last time
<flocculant> secondly - not that I am aware of - I did quickly parse bugzilla to prompt me 
<flocculant> ochosi: I did some more testing of that today - with thumbnails on and off - I'd seen issues previously with that on
<flocculant> cut/pasted a whole different bunch of files ~70Gb and ~5000 seperate files
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> so no more cut/paste issues with thumbnails?
<flocculant> haven't seen any issues with master plus that patch full stop
<ochosi> awesome stuff
<ochosi> i'll push it later tonight
<ochosi> and then prep a release or something
<ochosi> bbl
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: yup it was laos a typo.. :-#)
<flocculant> ha ha ha
<akxwi-dave> i'm hoping to do the thunar tests tomorrow....  
<akxwi-dave> problem is thunar doesnt actually crash for me anyway...
<flocculant> inconvenient :p
<akxwi-dave> i know, hoe dare it work fine for me... :-)
<ali1234> akxwi-dave: single core machine?
<ali1234> the crash seems to be a thread race condition
<akxwi-dave> ali1234:  nope its an i5  processor..
<akxwi-dave> lenovo e530 thinkpad edge
<ali1234> hmm. weird
<ali1234> probably just random then
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/t/thunar/news/20170210T150353Z.html
<ali1234> does that mean the fix will be in stretch?
<Unit193> It's missing the last patch, and so far no unblock bug.
<Unit193> Does the dual screens feature in Vbox actually work?
<ali1234> it certainly used to
<ali1234> i haven't tried it in a while though
<ali1234> it just opens two windows
<ali1234> you do need guest utilities installed in the VM
<ali1234> and then you have to configure monitors inside the VM to enable the second display, depending on guest OS
<Unit193> I was figuring the guest issue was the problem, thanks.  It was a live system.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-11
<Unit193> bluesabre: See -devel for the Qt thing.  The plugin and the env var were parts of it, but the old var clashes with the new one. >_<
<Unit193> (Sum up: Install qt5-style-plugins unset QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE=gtk and set QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk2)
<bluesabre> Unit193, any idea how that might affect qt < 5 ?
<Unit193> Well the plugin is only for 5...  Time to do some tests in a VM I guess (keeping in mind ~/.config/Trolltech.conf)
<Unit193> I think the troll file is for 4.
<Unit193> bluesabre: I just confirmed everything I said.
<bluesabre> gotcha
<bluesabre> Unit193, so, we drop the existing var and replace with the new one, keep Trolltech, and install qt5-style-plugins
<bluesabre> Unit193, thanks for looking into this :)
<Unit193> That's where it gets fun: If we install qt5-style-plugins we install Qt5, if *we* don't do anything about qt5-style-plugins the user gets ugly Qt5 if the user installs anything.
<Unit193> bluesabre: And sure thing.
<knome> so there's no way to get the vars without installing? sigh.
<knome> *et
<knome> *set
<knome> ma
<knome> *man!
<Unit193> knome: We can set them, they'll do nothing.
<knome> even if the user installs something?
<Unit193> If the user installs qt5-style-plugins he's set.
<knome> right
<knome> why wouldn't they? it's not a dep of qt5?
<Unit193> Things depending on qt5-style-plugins: ubuntu-mate-core ubuntu-mate-desktop
<knome> right, so they install qt5?
<Unit193> MATE?  So it'd seem.
<knome> meh
<knome> oki
<knome> so from my POV, i think the best thing to do is to set the var and tell people to install the qt5-style-plugins package if they use qt5
<knome> or maybe try to get it as a recommend of qt5
<Unit193> That last one would be pretty cool, but doubt we'd have such luck.  I agree with the telling users thing, release notes that nobody reads and blog post might be nice.
<bluesabre> the dep chain for that package kinda sucks http://packages.ubuntu.com/zesty/qt5-style-plugins :(
<knome> i'm poking my friendly kde friend, so let's see..
<bluesabre> ah, "gde"?
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> Mirv!
<knome> actually nope :P
<knome> don't even know how much he is involved with qt
<knome> hmm, seems like he is
<Unit193> I had to ask one of the Qt people because our QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE=gtk was messing with the whole setup and I never knew. :(
<Unit193> I would have had it the first time I kind of looked into it had it not been for that.
<knome> maybe i can ask him as well if i don't get anywhere with this first person
<flocculant> morning
<knome> 'lo
<flocculant> bluesabre: is mousepad actually supposed to do something if you drag a tab 'outside' ? that is more than crash :p
<knome> i guess either more or less than a crash :P
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> flocculant, no, that doesn't seem right, I'd expect anything to die if you ripped out more than 50% of it
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: looking at xfce 13336
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13336 in General "Program crash when dropping tab on Desktop" [Critical,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13336
<bluesabre> Yup, it definitely crashes
<bluesabre> that's no good
<flocculant> oh I know - I have the same here :p
<flocculant> though I seem to get SIGABRT not SIGSEV
<bluesabre> Easy solution is to disable tab removal
<flocculant> indeed 
<flocculant> well easy for you - I'd be using a hammer and nails :p
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: I guess I was really meaning is dropping a tab something that would be expected ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant, ah
<bluesabre> yes, that's a standard feature
 * flocculant waits for knome's comment 
<bluesabre> dragging a tab out should put it into a new mousepad window
<flocculant> ok - so do you want the bit of backtrace I managed to get on that bug report? and is strace any use?
<bluesabre> Also crashes moving between two open mousepad windows
<bluesabre> flocculant, sure, that might help
<flocculant> okey doke
<bluesabre> I'm terrible at reviewing traces, I look for each of the functions and try to find them in the code
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> sometimes it works
<bluesabre> and sometimes its GTK internal and I have no idea whats going on
<flocculant> seems I can never actually get gdb to finish properly here ...
<bluesabre> its an ugly crash
<bluesabre> running it in valgrind dumps so much
<flocculant> ok - added comment and strace
<flocculant> I'm obviously doing some basic wrong with gdb - can start an app - then when it crashes or something - gdb just sits there not letting me do anything but quit/detach so never know if it would have echoed more :P
<bluesabre> never learned how to gdb properly
<bluesabre> bbiab
<Unit193> 'bt'
<flocculant> Unit193: \o/ thanks :)
<Unit193> Sure thing.
<Unit193> Without debugging symbols, it has limited usefulness.
<flocculant> right - and they come from where :)
<knome> flocculant, comment about what again?
<bluesabre> all the things
<knome> :)
<flocculant> heh
 * knome comments like a gumby would... my brain huuurts
<knome> :)
<flocculant> lol
<knome> bbl, dinner time
<slickymaster> https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/ubuntu-manual-tests/1662965/+merge/316737 â  here you go, flocculant 
<flocculant> thanks slickymaster 
<slickymaster> sure
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r490 Improve osd readability... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<ochosi> new greybird release out btw
<knome> hooray
<Unit193> ochosi: Sweet, virii and all? :D
<ochosi> virii?
<ochosi> or are you really refering to viruses? (and even then i don't get it)
<ochosi> urban dictionary to the rescue...
<ochosi> "Refers to people from planet virus"
<knome> o.O
<knome> silly Unit193 
<Unit193> Yes, I am asking if you make sure to include viruses in the GTK theme. :PO
<ochosi> i do, ofc. why would you ask that?
<ochosi> :>
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-12
<Unit193> bluesabre: So did you do all the changes in x-d-s and update whisker? :--D
<bluesabre> Unit193, not yet D-------------:
 * Unit193 waves.
<Unit193> (FWIW, you can pretty much skip all other recent releases, I've already done something with 'em.  All but sensors and mount.)
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - ok so this is driving me nuts :p
<bluesabre> ?
<flocculant> thunar 
<bluesabre> uh oh
<flocculant> *now* I'm seeing the reload issue again
<bluesabre> which one is the reload issue?
<flocculant> where a file that's been moved on still shows in the origin
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> :\
<bluesabre> that might be a gvfs thing
<bluesabre> I saw that on nautilus this week
<flocculant> oh good 
<flocculant> now of course after telling corsac and ochosi it crashed - it won't :p
<bluesabre> :D
 * flocculant does something entirely different 
<flocculant> might install some other *buntu for 17.04 and test this with that file manager - ubuntu and nautilus sounds like the best plan :p
<flocculant> that was a moderately horrid experience - seems to be no way to select files in nautilus with a mouse window
<flocculant> bluesabre: anyway - didn't manage to crash nautilus there
<knome> flocculant, http://staging.xubuntu.org/tracker/
<knome> flocculant, this is PoC/betaish stage, but see how the timeline acknowledges that the done item has been closed 2 times
<knome> flocculant, also note task groups vs. blueprints - you can now have multiple overlapping
<knome> this has probably been more of a problem with community/website/marketing stuff, but things that really belong to more than one blueprint have been painful
<flocculant> yea ack that point ^^
<flocculant> my issue is still an issue - real-time(as far as it goes) with where bugs are reported - so we would still be hitting lp api I guess
<flocculant> and if we mvoe on one stage then upstream reporting where it's listed on lp
<knome> yes, but much less
<flocculant> eg a lp bug with upstream link
<knome> i think bugzilla has an API as well, so we should be able to work with that as well
<knome> and yes, now we can do dozens of cool things
<knome> one thing i was considering is that we might want to create tasks for "all bugs"
<knome> and then link the bugs into those tasks
<knome> so eg. "fix thunar" is the task
<knome> and then it could have 1-3 bugs linked to it
<knome> if we want
<knome> or then just one
<knome> or then we can just do what we always did
<knome> one feature i haven't been exposing much on the PoC yet is that we can now have a full description for each task Ã¡la wordpress articles
<knome> so the tasks are not just titles, they can have all kinds of extra data
<knome> and this comes without extra work too
<flocculant> being able to multiple link bugs to a 'task' is good 
<knome> yes, i gathered this would be a good thing
<knome> also, one more thing
<knome> remember the bug targets are sometimes weird when you have a bug linked to multiple packages?
<knome> well, now we could allow you to select which package to show...
<flocculant> that would be a positive ;)
<knome> yep
<knome> all kinds of little things
<knome> but most importantly from my POV to be able to track a single task better - even if its title changed
<flocculant> I will take some convincing - because most bp's I'm involved with have to talk to lp
<flocculant> and I imagine docs too
<knome> sure, i'll try to get some kind of testing stuff going soonish
<knome> i'm not doing anything re: bugs quite yet
<knome> but since i can reuse most of the code, it should be quick
<flocculant> and how about linking with the dev side of things?
<knome> what do you mean with that?
<knome> you mean linking with dev.xubuntu.org?
<flocculant> well - if we lose blueprints - how does all the LP stuff currently linking together - link outside? 
<knome> how does it need to?
<flocculant> bugs > fixes for one I guess
<knome> i mean, there's not much synergy we can from tracking stuff in blueprints at the moment anyway :(
<flocculant> other than bugs and fixes 
<knome> i'm not sure what that stuff is
<knome> we aren't using the LP milestones
<knome> so no loss there
<flocculant> not sure anyway - I will be keeping my powder dry for the moment :)
<knome> hehe
<knome> also, one thing i forgot to mention which is fun
<knome> we can have multiple assignees per task
 * flocculant always has a match though ...
<knome> i just don't know how we'll show that but...
<flocculant> not that you need telling that :p
<knome> and we can also add anything we want to the assignee
<knome> doesn't have to be LP team
<knome> or user
<flocculant> right
<knome> which is a slight advantage too
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> always happy to be involved as you know 
<knome> yep
<knome> i'll need some testing once stuff is set up
<knome> mostly the bugs
<Unit193> thunar 1.6.10-6 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac) (Closes: #800723)
<flocculant> just not ever going to be someone you can rely on saying 'that's awesome' till I really mean it :D
<knome> i'm still not sure if i want to handle that as i do now (via real cron jobs) or if i should do something else
<knome> probably at least a button that says "reload all bug data"
<knome> when you need that now
<flocculant> personally I think that last would make more sense
<flocculant> then when 'person' needs real time - they can get it
<knome> yes, that AT LEAST
<knome> but the automatic side...
<knome> maybe i'll move more to a "poor man's cron" kind of thing
<flocculant> could be weekly at that point? 
<knome> eg. not have a real cron job, but some kind of timestamp in the db
<knome> so it only updates if somebody is actually looking
<knome> yeah, something like that
<flocculant> as long as all know when it was last globally updated
<knome> yep
<knome> that's more than easy to achieve now
<knome> we can even allow per-bug updates
<knome> and show that date too
<knome> as that's again a less resource-requiring task than updating all bugs
<flocculant> I tend to err on the side of not adding bugs because of what bp says tbh
<knome> hmm?
<flocculant> if berty reads bp and it says things we'll fix this cycle - why would they not expect them to be fixed
<knome> right
<flocculant> should just edit the 'words'
<knome> we can just change the description
<knome> :)
<knome> yep
<flocculant> yea :)
<knome> ok, so
<knome> gone for a while
<flocculant> and the thunar issue would probably always be better linking upstream not xubuntu
<flocculant> yea - same - sunday evening stuff - bbl
<knome> hf
<Unit193> greybird-gtk-theme 3.22.1-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
<bluesabre> Unit193, nice!
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-05
<Unit193> Debian #889577
<ubottu> Debian bug 889577 in greybird-gtk-theme "greybird-gtk-theme: Please update to latest version" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/889577
<bluesabre> ochosi: likely the same issue I see randomly every few days, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-notifyd/+bug/1738226
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1738226 in xfce4-notifyd (Ubuntu) "xfce4-notifyd crashed with SIGSEGV in strncpy()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/menulibre/2.1/2.1.5 should be making it's way into debian and then ubuntu in the next day or so
<flocculant> bluesabre: moar fonts bug 1746310
<ubottu> bug 1746310 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Drop fonts-symbola from platform?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1746310
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'll try to get to the bottom of it. if you have hints or want to take a look yourself (the codebase is fairly small) that'd be welcome too ofc
<ochosi> bluesabre: i presume this is something you don't have a reproducer for right? more like something racy
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, just seems to randomly die every now and then. Only notice when I can't change my volume, since libnotify blocks if there's no daemon available
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-06
<ochosi> bluesabre: regarding xfdesktop - are you looking into the accountsservice stuff? (i'm currently not, trying to fix those notifyd segfaults)
<ochosi> seems easy enough to fix though, i can probably take a look if you don't have time at all (seems like a change from SetBackgroundFile to BackgroundFile and maybe some path changes)
<bluesabre> ochosi: not currently looking, was going to try to sometime today or tomorrow
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r545 Improve backdrop style of scale, progressbar and checked swi... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, sounds good, in fact until next week i won't get to it so i'll leave you the first stab :)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-07
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi knome - we apparently should respond re the drop fonts-symbola mentioned in above bug, there is also a mail on the release m/l about it
<knome> i'm ok with replacing, not sure we need to replace (rather than drop) though
<flocculant> mmm - Sean was looking at fonts iirc with Unit193 after the last lot got added 
<flocculant> anyway - not much interest there for me tbh, just we need to respond I guess
<knome> i was about to look at fonts too at some point
<knome> i'll reply for us then
<knome> done
<flocculant> thanks knome - not showing up yet though :p
<ochosi> knome, flocculant had noticed the mail too - i guess the colored emoji dont hurt, but i'm also not sure in which context they would be useful for us...
<knome> yup
<Unit193> Why not just drop?  Why is emoji support a feature?  I think it's a feature to not have support.
<knome> yes, i'm in the sameish lines, but if we've had similar things before...
<knome> but sure, i'll vote for dropping it as well but i won't make the decision for us all without further discussion
<bluesabre> flocculant, knome: thanks
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: congrats on a new mate release
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre: Thanks. You should have a stipped down Engrampa now too :-)
<flexiondotorg> *stripped
<Unit193> flexiondotorg: Yes, and you fixed a couple other things too, so thank you very much for those too!
<bluesabre> Very nice
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: We likely want the upgrader to remove the old ones...
<flexiondotorg> Unit193: Thanks :-)
<bluesabre> Unit193: the old not mate packages, or something else?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yes sir.
<bluesabre> Gotcha
<bluesabre> Makes sense
<bluesabre> Also need to port keyboard shortcuts for upgrades
<flexiondotorg> The MATE Core team a very pleased to be sharing some of the applications they've been working on with Xubuntu.
<Unit193> flexiondotorg: FWIW, "biggest" thing another team mate and I noticed was a lack of history in the calculator (https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-calc/issues/32)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-08
<bluesabre> Unit193: Did some font research on our iso, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oAkWhSp-Lpo-g1Vv91APlmr5L_erfarN_45CSxyxrxc/edit?usp=sharing
<Unit193> Nice.
<bluesabre> Need to review [xubuntu-dev] thunar: Provide more default custom actions (printing, convert to pdf): TODO with ochosi sometime soon
<bluesabre> Uploaded new menulibre directly to ubuntu, debian-python PAPT sponsors seem to be missing :)
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/menulibre/2.1.5-0ubuntu1
<Unit193> Got a link for the Debian one?
<bluesabre> https://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/python-apps/packages/menulibre/trunk/
<flocculant> bluesabre: fyi "Next cycle we are probably going to look at removing xserver-xorg-input-synaptics from the archive since libinput should be then good enough for everyone"
<bluesabre> oh dear
<Unit193> ochosi: Figured you might like this Debian 889905
<ubottu> Debian bug 889905 in xfce4-notifyd "xfce4-notifyd: privacy-invasive logging of notification content" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/889905
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-09
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2018-February/004283.html \o/
<Unit193> (Because I object.)
<bluesabre> oh good
<bluesabre> That's the preferred outcome
<Unit193> Now on to libinput....
<Unit193> bluesabre: I poked someone on menu.
<flocculant> Unit193: I didn't care enough to object - though it would likely have been uninstalled like all the other fonts which are no use to me
<Lucky_> hello
<keujr> ââââââââââ  âââââââ   âââââââââââ   ââââââââââ âââââââââââââââ ââââ   ââââââââââââââââââââââââââââ    âââââââ âââââââ  âââââââ
<keujr> âââââââââââââââââââ   âââââââââââ   ââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââ  ââââââââââââââââââââââââââââ   âââââââââââââââââââââââââ
<flocculant> bluesabre: meant to link you https://community.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-to-remove-xserver-xorg-input-synaptics-on-upgrade/3938 not just the quote
<Unit193> ...Well https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/tree/configure.ac.in#n174
<Unit193> If someone with a mobile thingy wants to be a test subject...
<Unit193> According to info, 4.13 packages have it already.
<flocculant> what is a mobile thingy when it's at home?
<ochosi> Unit193: the 'privacy invasive' part is a bit over the top as it's optional, but anyhoo, luckily i don't have an account on that tracker so i don't have to comment
<Unit193> ochosi: Not telling you to comment, just thought you might be amused. :P  Also, nobody has an account, not how that one works.  I *believe*, it might be the older one, and it's echoing what message was rejected, and since started by systemd or whatnot, forwards to syslog.
<Unit193> flocculant: What I meant though, something that can by configured by libinput/synaptics.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-10
<flocculant> Unit193: aah ok :)
<ochosi> Unit193: heh, yeah, i tend to take bugreports way too seriously ;)
<Unit193> :(
<Unit193> Well, won't link you to amusing ones then.
<ochosi> awwwwh :)
<ochosi> i promise i'll start taking them less seriously then!
<flocculant> I thought you always did when I report things ;p
<Unit193> flocculant: Nooo, difference between ignore and taking seriously! ;)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<Unit193> So yes, xfce4-settings can build with libinput support, so perhaps that doesn't affect use either.
<Unit193> But, 4.14 will have to come out for it.
<flocculant> I think back when we added -synaptic it was something to do with tap to click
<flocculant> bluesabre: are we completely positive that we want to keep the mate calculator?  given it takes more space to get less useful application? 
<flocculant> bluesabre: have we ever thought about having similar options available to people using xubuntu on the live iso? https://i.imgur.com/9vPxHHe.png
<flocculant> knome: just a quick one - when we looking at slideshow? I grabbed your branch of it - couldn't run it though ...
<knome> what was the problem with running?
<knome> we should be looking at it "in february", said slickymaster 
<knome> the content is his show after all...
<flocculant> yea understand that
<knome> i can try to help you get going with my branch though
<flocculant> hang on ... https://paste.ubuntu.com/=7tGw7cTZVK/
<flocculant> yea - was looking at your branch
<knome> o.O
<knome> this looks familiarish
<flocculant> lol
<knome> oh
<flocculant> I got build-deps just in case it was that 
<knome> must be a missing webkit build dep that isn't listed
<Unit193> Yes.
<knome> let me dig up the logs
<flocculant> hi Unit193 :)
<Unit193> gir1.2-webkit2-4.0 or gir1.2-webkit-3.0
<knome> probably that
<Unit193> (Likely latter.)
<knome> i found libwebkit*something* from notes
<knome> libwebkitgtk-3.0.0-dev
<Unit193> libwebkitgtk-3.0-dev depends on gir1.2-webkit-3.0
<flocculant> ok - running now :p
<flocculant> sparse ...
<flocculant> surprised there's no list of apps - but suits me :p
<flocculant> bbl
<bluesabre> flocculant: we don't have to use it, we have other options
<bluesabre> gnome-calc might even be fine if there's nothing useful hidden behind the "icon menu"
<bluesabre> That menu comes and goes for me, hence my annoyance with CSDs as of late
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> not all that worried about it personally - but losing the calc history could be an issue for people actually 'using' the calc
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-11
<Unit193> SwissBot: quit
<SwissBot> Unit193, you don't have 'basics::quit::quit' permissions here
<bluesabre> sassy
<ochosi> flocculant: ever had a problem where lightdm wouldn't start the session anymore (blank screen) but startxfce4 would? also slim or xdm would work fine, just lightdm seems broken. (happened after an upgrade from 16.10 to 17.10 directly, so sorta my fault i guess :( )
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-04
<tracker9> z
<knome> bluesabre, could you probably do something about the "oversized" xubuntu images or is it something that's caused by something in ubuntu?
<knome> (if not else, simply make our target size bigger...)
<flocculant> knome: iirc a cycle or two ago the allowed size of our image (and pretty much everyone else's) were reset to stop those warnings
<flocculant> slangasek sorted them after a mail to the u-dev list and response I think
<flocculant> can't check - all those e-mails have been archived to the delete folder here now ...
<bluesabre> knome, I think I saw something about the fonts doubling in size again, pushing us over the target
<bluesabre> ofc, we also brough back gimp and added lo impress, so maybe we just need to increase the target
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-05
<knome> bluesabre, ack
<bluesabre> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2019-February/004693.html Time to start testing 18.04.2 images
<brainwash> bluesabre: comment #27 in bug 1754872
<ubottu> bug 1754872 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "apt install xubuntu-desktop does not resolve dependencies properly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754872
<brainwash> it is the solution for the problem, isn't it?
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, annoying... [Adwaita|adwaita]
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-06
<guiverc> 19.04 daily - should it ask me for login details when I select 'try' ??  (media passed validation)
<guiverc> nevermind - i rebooted & not being asked this time (I couldn't login as it wouldn't accept tried passwords; also greeter window was jumping between my displays... just noting in qa-test comments)
<krytarik> Password would be empty then of course though.
<guiverc> i tried 'xubuntu/xubuntu' & 'xubuntu/' & other combinations... doesn't matter now  ... I'll blame sunbursts which IBM said caused memory-failures :)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-09
<JackFrost> https://bugs.debian.org/921835
<ubottu> Debian bug 921835 in xfce4-screensaver "xfce4-screensaver: wastes CPU while the display is off" [Normal,Open]
<JackFrost> greybird-gtk-theme 3.22.10-1 uploaded by Jeremy Bicha (jbicha)
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Debian freezes are coming up, you might want to get catfish and mugshot in order.  I can assist if needed.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-10
<bluesabre> JackFrost: what's the next freeze date?
<bluesabre> I'm going to try to get packages refreshed tomorrow
<JackFrost>     [2019-Feb-12] Soft freeze (no new packages, no re-entry, 10-day migrations)
<JackFrost>     [2019-Mar-12] Full freeze
<JackFrost> Anyone tried the gsettings backend of xfconf yet?  I have a script that'll export the dconf values to xfconf's backend.
<bluesabre> JackFrost: not tried it yet, but curious
<amerigena> There's an upstream issue with Gdebi in (X)Ubuntu. I've heard that Gdebi is being deprecated in the next LTS, 20.04. Is there an Xubuntu dev here who is willing to confirm / deny this?
<krytarik> amerigena: What's the upstream issue?
<amerigena> Gdebi bombs when trying to install a package. Crashes. Running sudo gdebi-gtk from a terminal and opening a .deb package works, but double-clicking a .deb package and trying to install it doesn't.
<amerigena> Based on my limited knowledge, it seems like an issue with gdebi-gtk escalating to root, or with gksu.
<amerigena> I'm using a current and fully patched install of Xubuntu 18.0.4.1, and I'm having the issue.
<amerigena> A user that I know is using MATE on the same Ubuntu point version, and says that he's not experiencing the issue.
<amerigena> I don't know if this is true or not, since I haven't had a chance to install MATE and test.
<amerigena> Running gdebi from a terminal also works fine.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-03
<astraljava> bluesabre: No worries, was just wondering. :) Take your time, and do let me know if you need a hand with testing or whathaveyou.
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is Unit193
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-05
<bluesabre> !team | 18.04.4 images need testing, in case you have a moment
<ubottu> 18.04.4 images need testing, in case you have a moment: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> Looks like they've already found something, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1861912
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1861912 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "file system creation in partition failed in auto-resize install 18.04.4" [Critical,Confirmed]
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-08
<bluesabre> !team | I'm going to look into setting up the 20.04 wallpaper contest this weekend... let me know if you think we need any changes to the existing terms (link below)
<ubottu> I'm going to look into setting up the 20.04 wallpaper contest this weekend... let me know if you think we need any changes to the existing terms (link below): akxwi-dave, bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> https://contest.xubuntu.org/terms/
<bluesabre> I think it's a straight-forward thing to do, but I've been wrong about that before :)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-09
<ochosi> bluesabre: just went through the terms again, i think they're still good
<ochosi> we were thorough writing them
 * ochosi keeps his fingers crossed for the setup being straight-forward
<ochosi> thanks for taking care of that bluesabre 
