#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-10
<troy_s> ping
<OpticalHeshaki> hey is there anyway to join the art team?
<lapo> hi
<mhb> good afternoon everyone
<jsgotangco> hi
<viper550> Hello Everyone!
<viper550> Anyone here?
<andreasn> hi there
<viper550> I found a pretty cool new panel applet
<andreasn> oh?
<viper550> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=208131
<andreasn> allright, yeah they seem to have made a good job on that one
<viper550> I installed it on my system
<lapo> its slab, pretty unusefull on ubuntu atm
<andreasn> need to fix that f-spot icon
<viper550> y?
<andreasn> it's hard as hell to redraw though
<lapo> andreasn: I think jimmac has a tango version for that one
<lapo> jimmac: ?
<andreasn> in scalable as well?
<lapo> dunno
<viper550> I could try...how easy is it to draw in Tango?
<lapo> uhm?
<viper550> Oh yeah, Slab looks pretty interesting in Tropic
<andreasn> viper550: screenshot?
<viper550> I'll just say, the text for the headings is green, and the border is orange. Still don't know why the sidebar is locked to beige
<andreasn> I must say that I find the combination of orange and green quite interesting
<lapo> viper550: I think mostly because of slab being in early stages of development still
<viper550> Never mind, I think it used [bg] active
<viper550> Ahh, that looks better!
<troy_s> who lives?
<lapo> troy_s: me, I think :-)
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> how goes it lapo?
<lapo> still alive :-)
<troy_s> have you guys submitted to frank for theme inclusion regarding tango?
<troy_s> i imagine you folks have a wallpaper / splash / logon etc, no?
<lapo> I'm quite busy with work and upstream stuff atm
<lapo> I do not have that stuff personally
<troy_s> who isn't busy with work?  :(
<lapo> and I'm kinda against doing a full tango theme, that's not the tango scope
<troy_s> well it wouldn't be a tango 'theme', but you could easily design a look that utilizes tango
<troy_s> 'theme' is pretty limiting language
<lapo> troy_s: ther will be the crux refresh for gnome that is made trying to follow the tango guidelines w/o changing the original crux feeling too much
<troy_s> ick
<lapo> so new crux engine (cairo based, thos is working on it) and icons and new tango style icons for mist
<troy_s> is mist just window dec?
<lapo> crux folders will probably look something like those http://xoomer.alice.it/bat/tmp/folderx.png
<troy_s> that folder style looks like a boat i find.
<lapo> troy_s: nope, gtk engine, window dec and icons
<lapo> it's somewaht based on oriinal crux folder
<kwwii> re
<adamant1988> hello all.
<kwwii> howdy
<adamant1988> I created this small banner as a test and to get used to gimp, it's got a 'tryout' slogan that might on on some posters and billboards and such in (I think europe) what do you think? http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h314/adamant1988/Ubuntubanner.jpg
<kwwii> adamant1988: guess I would make the wave a bit higher
<adamant1988> ok, I was actually thinking lower.
<adamant1988> I'll give that a try
<mhb> good evening
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-11
<kwwii> sleep now
<nickm1> hello is there someone i could talk to? my name is Nick McMahon from the ubuntu marketing team
<nickm1> i'm looking to find an ubuntu color chart
<nickm1> well, colour chart :)
<newz2000> I'd love to see ken's concepts, but bootsplash.org won't resolve for me. Not even if I use the coral cache. :-(
<newz2000> oh, got it. Man that looks sharp.
<newz2000> klepas: got a moment?
<klepas> sure, what's up?
<newz2000> I'm going to be restructing the server that hosts art.ubuntu.com
<newz2000> Do you have any special config there that you want preserved?
<klepas> sorry, i didn't not create or help set it up
<klepas> henrik would be the person to consult in that regard
<newz2000> sorry for the delay, got caught up in a big dns question
<newz2000> klepas: Yeah, everyone says that server can be nuked, I just knew that you've put some effort into it and I wouldn't want you to loose anything
<klepas> i haven't really done anything other than add submitted content
<newz2000> ok. I'm not going to delete that content, just move it around
<klepas> so basically i had admin rights and used them to approve submissions
<klepas> good :)
<klepas> what is your plan for the system?
<newz2000> We're going to set it up for shared hosting so the loco teams can have free web space.
<newz2000> ubuntu-au.org and etc.
<newz2000> That server is way underutilized and there are a lot of people wanting hosting
<klepas> :)
<klepas> no i mean in regards to artwork...?
<newz2000> Are you asking what artwork I'm going to make, or what I'm going to do with the existing artwork?
<klepas> well the system supporting the existing artwork
<newz2000> Hopefully I wont' change anything except the location of the files on the disk.
<newz2000> If we want to open it back up, that's fine. If we want to kill it, that's fine too.
<klepas> well make sure we have a backup of it all
<newz2000> You bet.
<newz2000> I ran webalizer on the log files for that site... it gets a remarkably number of hits
<newz2000> In June it got over 5,000 page views and > 300,000 hits PER DAY
<newz2000> Sorry, that's 30,000 hits, not 300,000.
<klepas> that is a fairly large amount
<klepas> indicates the site needs to be looking polished and has to be accessable to it's users
<klepas> because that number of visitors would include a lot of disheartened people
<newz2000> anyone feeling resourceful with icons?
<newz2000> I'm doing the bzr website and wanted three icons. I've found two great ones in tango-scalable, a third is OK but not quite right
<newz2000> I need a book, and stock_new-address-book.svg is close, but its the wrong perspective
<newz2000> It's laying down and it would look better standing up
<newz2000> My attempts look like a rectangle
<newz2000> oh wait, I found the dictionary icon, it will work just fine
<klepas> hehe :)
<newz2000> know of a way to do something like "outer glow" in inkscape?
<klepas_Zzz> select the largest background object, duplicate it, move it to the bottom, press ctrl + shift and use your mouse to pull the objects arrows to make it large
<klepas_Zzz> and now change the fill to whatever you need to acheive the right colour for a glow :)
<klepas_Zzz> play around with the transparency/opacity, gradients and so forth
<klepas_Zzz> that's it for me, 'night
<newz2000> thanks, I'll try it
<newz2000> night
<troy_s> hi sara_
<sara_> hey troy
<sara_> I am wondering how would a project go about getting help fromt he art team
<troy_s> the mailing list is sort of our main avenue
<troy_s> for discussion currently
<troy_s> and we try to use the spec procedure at launchpad.
<sara_> but Ineed to join that right
<sara_> spc procedure?
<troy_s> the mailing list is probably your best starting point...
<troy_s> what in particular do you need?
<troy_s> if you could wiki the needs, it is possible that you MIGHT get someone who can help.
<troy_s> hi dinda.
<dinda> hi Troy_s et al
<sara_> We are working on an ubuntu magazine, and we are getting to the point where we might need some art work and maybe some help
<sara_> Yeah we have a wiki and are restructuring so that we have a art work page and we are going to have a list of thing to do soon
<troy_s> well it might be useful to get in touch with the mailing list.  unfortunately it still has some unfortunate bad habits on it, but it is evolving into a more professional direciton.
<sara_> ok so as soona s we have something up I guess I'll make apost
<troy_s> that would be great
<troy_s> we have some sample specs there
<troy_s> if you could at least wiki the needs, and be clear and specific, perhaps offering some samples
<troy_s> or something
<troy_s> it would greatly aid the folks who need to see that sort of thing :)
<troy_s> photo based items i know i can knock off relatively quickly for you
<troy_s> illustration will take longer.
<troy_s> and i don't know how many on the team are adept illustrators.
<sara_> ok, I'll work on it and hopefully have a nice list up
<dinda> sara_, the marketing team still seems unclear on how to use the Spec/wiki/Launchpad for developing/tracking things
<dinda> I keep meaning to try to post to the mailing list some of the process I observed but have been busy
<troy_s> dinda:  how do you know that?
<troy_s> ahh.
<sara_> yeah, I am sorry to say I am in part at fault for that at least for my part
<troy_s> yes the spec system is terrific
<dinda> from the mailing list and from being in paris
<troy_s> for quick and easy references
<troy_s> dinda,  you were in paris?  *embarassed*
<dinda> lol - yeah and you were extremely jetlagged  ;)
<dinda> as I recall :)
<troy_s> LOL
<troy_s> indeed.
<sara_> didnda you should probably post, since I know I am doing things wring, but really don't know how to do them right
<troy_s> crappers... didn't realize that was you.
<troy_s> sara_, the more folks who get up to speed on launchpad etc
<troy_s> the more can spread the knowledge.
<dinda> alot of good work happened there and I hope the marketing team can learn from the artwork group's development
<sara_> I'll take a look at the marketing team work and see what we can learn from it
<dinda> there are lots of very enthusiastic folks in the marketing group but I'd hate to see duplication of effort avoided if possible
<sara_> yeah, I know what you mean I have 3 similar proposals on my mailbox that would of done with collaboartion
<troy_s> that's why specs are wonderful
<troy_s> you can easily cite a link
<troy_s> with full design needs
<troy_s> without typing 'we have been over this a 1000000 times, so here is a copy of the text...'
<troy_s> laf.
<sara_> I just took a look at you specs on launchpad and I am certain that our projects would greatly benefit from them
<dinda> exactly, here's the project spec, everyone can throw darts at it, and it can move forward
<troy_s> the idea behind the specs is to get them started in x cycle
<troy_s> get them fleshed out while everyone does their official work for x cycle
<troy_s> and have them ready for attacking in x+1
<sara_> great, I'll keep on looking and maybe I'll pick some examples so that we can get started
<troy_s> those specs
<troy_s> are based on martin pitt's very good samples
<troy_s> so they aren't out of tangent.
<troy_s> martin works with the dev team and has a couple of exemplary specifications on launchpad.
<sara_> uhh. I came here looking for art help and I am getting help on managing the project. Thanks
<troy_s> so i borrowed his outline
<troy_s> well you can't really build a house without a blueprint
<sara_> exactly. I just realized that I am missing ameeting on the marketing channel, so I got to go
<dinda> was that now?
<sara_> no wrong time
<sara_> ooops. I got the tabas messes up
<sara_> the mmeting is the 13th
<dinda> troy_s; development seems to be moving well for the artwork team this cycle
<troy_s> dinda, plodding like a beast of burden
<troy_s> hopefully people who can work within a professional structure will continue to appear as they have been.
<dinda> it was great to see Ken W get picked up for the kubuntu stuff - his work is great
<troy_s> eventually, when we hit critical mass and things start to run themselves, i will attempt to bring in some very gifted folks.
<troy_s> yes... he needs to get some outlines and such in place...
<troy_s> which is why i was all for getting some textural references in place for ubuntu.
<troy_s> it is hard to hit a moving target.
<troy_s> right now, kubuntu is too hodgey podgy too.
<troy_s> but again, that will evolve hopefully.
<dinda> definitely
<dinda> it's all really a much larger project than most realize
<troy_s> yes... i think the open source art community hasn't really hit the professional level that it needs to
<troy_s> and it is largely because everyone fritters away doing their own thing...
<troy_s> which doesn't see the 'forest through the trees'
<troy_s> how's texas?  hot?
<troy_s> you are in texas aren't you?
<dinda> hotter than hades with mosquitoes to boot
<dinda> yip, Galveston, near Houston
<troy_s> mosquitoes are great if you are a bat
<dinda> yeah we saw about two million of them last week in Austin - great - no bugs by them
<dinda> I'm hoping that the artwork model will help with marketing and then eventually my area - training
<troy_s> official ubuntu training?
<dinda> yip
<troy_s> wow
<troy_s> are you a canonical employee as of now>
<dinda> training is always the last thing
<dinda> nope. . . someday I wish  ;)
<troy_s> everything is the last thing until people see a 'critical mass' point... then everyone wants to help.
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o troy_s]  by ChanServ
<dinda> exactly, once the product is built and finally adopted then someone will realize we might need to actually offer training to larger installs - like the 40k install shown in paris
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : Welcome! -+- Start here:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork  -+- Work Specs at http://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs -+- Loose proposals for the Proposal phase are underway.
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-tr]  by troy_s
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+t]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+r]  by troy_s
<dinda> but I'm going to start the ball rolling and work on some specs and wiki pages - there's already alot in place that can hep
<dinda> help
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
<dinda> gotta run off for awhile - nice chatting with you all
<newz2000> Fill in the blank:
<newz2000> The Ubuntu Artwork team exist to _______.
<troy_s> eek
<troy_s> look to mark's quotations as a good starting point.
<newz2000> good idea
<troy_s> i believe the team exists to manage the aesthetic development of the entire Ubuntu project
<troy_s> although those are grandiose words right now considering where we are at.
<troy_s> :)
<newz2000> Something like, "make the Ubuntu desktop ever more usable and attractive."
<troy_s> it extends beyond that in scope
<troy_s> it will eventually encompass the marketing aesthetic, etc.
<troy_s> as well as other advertising related matters.
<newz2000> Anything you can think of that needs to be included currently in that list?
<newz2000> "Ubuntu desktop and its diriviatives..."
<newz2000> :-( speling
<newz2000> (sic)
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> well ... again, i think that is the futures component.
<troy_s> currently, we will be lucky if we can actually coordinate a usplash
<troy_s> :)
<kwwii> moin
<kwwii> I just posted the svg sources to the pngs I sent to the list, in case someone is interested
<kwwii> anyone seen frank lately?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-12
<troy_s> kwwii, you in brother?
<kwwii> hey man, wassup?
<kwwii> I am still hanging on
<troy_s> good... night soon for you?
<troy_s> sleepy time?
<kwwii> eventually
<kwwii> I have had a plague of emails in the last two days
<troy_s> well that's good news i guess!
* kwwii comes from the Gary the Gnu age
<kwwii> "No gnus is good gnus"
<kwwii> night all
<Madpilot> anyone know where/if the Dapper 'Circle of Friends' photo is available? It's not on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official, and I could have sworn it was...
<Madpilot> never mind, it's on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing
<kwwii> moin
<jenda> Hello
<jenda> Is there a way to find the author of http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/54 ?
<jenda> nvm found him.
<troy_s> yeah its tristian
<troy_s> from gnome-look
<jenda> got him. mailed him.
<jenda> http://su.mindspin-cms-hosting.de/Mockup.png
<troy_s> i like his look as well... are you trying a marketing mock up?
<jenda> yes - for the spreadubuntu site
<jenda> I made the above based on his work
<newz2000> What do you guys do when you create a work that includes a font the client doesn't have?
<fowlduck> what do you guys use in general to make the ubuntu artwork?  Is there something especially good for making the logo?
<jenda> There's inkscape and the GIMP, if that's what you mean...
<jenda> but I'm only a guest here ;)
<fowlduck> ok
<newz2000> We love svg, and inkscape is a steller tool for creating svg.
<newz2000> The next two big tools are GIMP and PhotoShop. Some here use Illustrator too.
<jenda> But don't forget Adobe Illustrator is evil ;)
<fowlduck> oh cool, I was wondering how to manipulate svg
<jenda> fowlduck: there's the gimp-svg plugin, but I think there's a dependency problem there
<fowlduck> yeah, i'll just give inkscape a try
<jenda> Inkscape is incredible. I had no trouble working in it even though I've never done anything of the sort before, and yet it can do near anything.
<fowlduck> i'm trying to make a new version of ubuntu...eventually here....but I'm graphically challenged
<newz2000> Fowlduck, the latest version in Dapper is 0.43, but there's a new version just released that is so nice.
<fowlduck> and I need a background and some icons by thursday.  I have a friend workin on it but it looks......
<newz2000> I just upgraded last night
<fowlduck> newz2000: I use SuSE for my desktop, Ubuntu for server
<fowlduck> newz2000: i wonder how it is in this one
<newz2000> I'll bet you can get it. Its worth the work.
<fowlduck> 0.43-20
<newz2000> I did a whole project Friday and yesterday in 0.43, then I upgraded last night and almost cried when I saw how much easier some stuff was.
<jenda> newz2000: is there a howto somewhere, to upgrade to 0.44?
<fowlduck> nice
<jenda> (and a changelog?)
<fowlduck> newz2000: how are the deps?  the same?
<newz2000> folwduck: I don't know, I just downloaded a deb from the forums and it worked. So must be OK.
<newz2000> Here's a link,
<newz2000> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=202916&highlight=inkscape
<fowlduck> cool, i'll make it an rpm using alien
<newz2000> There may be a version out there already
<newz2000> (Alien never treated me right)
<jenda> BTW, newz2000, welcome to the Marketing Team ;)
<newz2000> am I on it?
<newz2000> :-D Cool
<jenda> Ah, no, you aren't ;) But you made an appearance on the list ;)
<newz2000> Yeah, I pop on and off
<fowlduck> newz2000: alien hasn't let me down so far
<jenda> newz2000: in that case, make that _you_are_ welcome to the Marketing Team :-D
<newz2000> I was starting to get overwhelmed with communication, so I've backed out of almost every channel.
<newz2000> So I'm redesigning bzr website
<newz2000> I found a cool font for the logo, but its non-free.
<newz2000> What do you guys usually do when you have a font and your 'client' doesn't?
* jenda was just exploring ways how the MT could start using bzr
<newz2000> Or alternately, is there a good source for free (as in OSS) fonts?
<newz2000> jenda: start with specs
<jenda> I wouldn't know... I stick to free stuff, and I'm only here because I needed something from these guys.
<newz2000> Do you have a team set up on launchpad?
<jenda> The Marketing Team - over 43 active members ;)
<jenda> (over = there are about 60 recently deactivated ones)
<newz2000> I'd start by creating specs for the stuff you want to get done. Its kind of like a detailed todo list.
<newz2000> Then you can priortize and delegate the items.
<jenda> Indeed. Create them in the wiki or on LP?
<jenda> Lp.
<newz2000> They two are linked. LP is just an overview, there's a place to link to a wiki page.
<jenda> ah :)
<newz2000> I've just started that for my stuff today
<newz2000> https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website for an example
<newz2000> Click on specs
<newz2000> s/specs/specificatoins/
<jenda> Hmm... what I have is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu
<jenda> It's not created from the spec template though. I get what you mean. I'll have a look at that.
<jenda> It won't be code we'll be bazaaring there.
<newz2000> Since I'm a one-man team at the moment I'm using my for a glorified todo list. That way I can just direct people there when they want to report or request something
<jenda> Alright, I'm beginning to get it ;)
<jenda> newz2000: Do I first register a product?
<newz2000> Hmm... good question
<newz2000> Let me look
* jenda guesses these ar #launchpad questions, rather
<fowlduck> yay, .44 installed
<fowlduck> the .package file is nice
<newz2000> Yes, I guess so
<fowlduck> we need more of that
<newz2000> fowlduck, congrats
<fowlduck> danke
<newz2000> jenda, you're right I think you do need a product
<jenda> OK, doing that now.
<jenda> thanks
<jenda> oooh! 0.44 looks soo good :)
<jenda> Absolute rockage there...
<newz2000> I've noticed you can click a color from the pallets and it will go into the fill color... I wonder if there's a way to click a color so that it goes to the stroke color
<jenda> try the mod keys
<jenda> Shift give the borders
<newz2000> ah shift
<newz2000> :-D
<jenda> ;)
<newz2000> I would have beat you, but I had to edit my post. (left the f out of shift)
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> no pride in that - I've only used inkscape twice before. I'm in this channel to _get_ art, not make it 
<jenda> http://su.mindspin-cms-hosting.de/Mockup.png < one instance
<newz2000> that's a cool smiley, how'd you do that?
<jenda> I pressed the win key and o
<jenda> gahaha
<jenda> But edited my xmodmap to do a Kana_TU on that combination :)
<newz2000> ah
<jenda> I use a totally custom, four layer keyboard layout based on the dvorak.
<newz2000> Did you make that poster?
<jenda> I did, but not the original work
<jenda> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/54
<jenda> based on the above
<newz2000> How did you make the text flow around the globe?
<jenda> Haha :-D
<jenda> You know the answer before you even asked, newz2000
<newz2000> enlighten me
<newz2000> manually edit it?
<jenda> Yes.
<jenda> Unfortunately.
<jenda> Copy paste the text and add line breaks where it crosses the border.
<newz2000> Are you in Australia?
<jenda> No idea if there's a way to curve that.
<jenda> No, I'm in the Czech republic.
<jenda> The author of the orig might have been.
<jenda> tristian of gnome-look
<jenda> In fact, I came into this channel looking for him.
<lapo> hi
<newz2000> hi
<jenda> hello
<jenda> newz2000: come to think of it, text flowing around selected objects in the design would be an AMAZING feature.
<newz2000> Some progs do that, but usually page layout progs, which are sparse on linux.
<jenda> yes
<newz2000> Maybe OOo can do it
<newz2000> I know how to fake it in HTML. :D
<jenda> But it would be a nice inkscape feature, as in - I'd select the properties of the text box and add 'flow objects' - select the globe (or enter it's ID) and the text flows...
<newz2000> Inkscape can flow text on a curve, I wonder if you can do it using that feature
<jenda> Probably, lemme have a look.
<jenda> newz2000: I just can't find any text flowing - except 'flow into frame', which I don't understand. Doesn't seem to do anything.
<newz2000> The tutorial in the help menu I think demonstrates flowing text on a path... let me peek
<newz2000> In Help --> Tutorial --> Tips about 60% down there's a tip, Placing text on a path
<newz2000> I don't think it will work though
<jenda> Ah ;)
<newz2000> Hmmm
<newz2000> it mentions something about "flow text"
<newz2000> when I try it
<newz2000> yeah, it just lets you make the text wavy
<jenda> yeah... hmm.
<newz2000> Oooh spiral text.
<newz2000> I don't know what thats useful for, but it looks cool.
<jenda> got it!
<newz2000> what'd you do?
<jenda> Gimme five minutes :)
<newz2000> ok
<jenda> You create a 'rectangle' the desired shape
<jenda> select them both and flow text to frame
<newz2000> Let me try it
<newz2000> Some of my pallettes have disappeared, namely the alignment.
<newz2000> oh, that's cool. It actually goes into the box
<newz2000> So you could use the union tool to make boxes any shame you want and fit it right in there
<newz2000> shame --> shape
<jenda> yep :)
* jenda fell in love
<jenda> that prog is near perfect.
<newz2000> I don't remember there being layers before.
<newz2000> This is handy
<jenda> newz2000: I'm positive 0.43 had layers. I used them.
<fowlduck> can ubuntu icons be svg files?
<jenda> I think so... try :)
<fowlduck> not in ubuntu :/
<kwwii> if anyone wants to check out the kubuntu philosophy page...it is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/KubuntuPhilosophy
<viper550> Hello
<viper550> Hi
<nettogrof> hi
<viper550> Do you contribute to Tangerine?
<nettogrof> maybe
<nettogrof> =/
<viper550> Well, we've got a little problem. Even though originally this spec I've got has nothing to do with Artwork Team...they may actually be needed at all.
<viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Slab Here's the spec with the problem, look at the bottom for my problem
<viper550> Anyone still there?
<jenda> newz2000: you there?
<newz2000> yes
<jenda> I don't know what to do next - I have a spec and a product...
<newz2000> Cool
<jenda> But when I want to register a branch, it asks for a URL
<newz2000> oh
<jenda> Not sure what to do there.
<newz2000> Are you wanting to use bzr?
<jenda> Yes.
<newz2000> I haven't done that yet.
<newz2000> I'd ask in the #launchpad or #bzr  channels
<jenda> (btw - I made a next version of the mockup: http://www.novarata.net/1/Mockup2.png)
<jenda> OK, thanks
<lapo> hi
<jenda> hello
<fowlduck> where can I find gconf entries that change the theme?
<fowlduck> ahh, found it, metacity
<kwwii> troy_s: ping?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-13
<jenda> Any pointers towards the ubuntu logo?
<lapo> uhm?
<lapo> jenda: do you need ubuntu logo svgs?
<jenda> I just managed with a png
<jenda> but an svg would be great
<lapo> jenda: there's the svgs on the ubuntu site
<lapo> http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/TrademarkPolicy
<jenda> ah, thanks, lapo
<lapo> np
<lapo> hi
<newz2000> I need some graphic design help...
<newz2000> I sent a msg to the maliing list, but here's the URL:
<newz2000> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-July/002470.html
<kwwii> I'll take a look, one second
<kwwii> newz2000: so your idea was to either use the merge sign *or* the branches on top of the blue stipe, etc.?
<newz2000> Yeah, I'm going to use the blue strip
<kwwii> so only one of the graphics will be used
<newz2000> Yes
<kwwii> when I look at the merge sign, I see a chinese man taking a piss
<kwwii> correction: a well hung chinese man
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> sorry
<newz2000> :-D
<newz2000> That's ok, I'm still laughing about the glasgow handshake
<newz2000> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/13/zidane_headbutt_outrage/
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> nice
<kwwii> how did you make the branches?
<newz2000> I didn't make them
<newz2000> I think they were traced
<kwwii> hrm, I cannot edit them in inkscape
<newz2000> Really?
<kwwii> yepp
<newz2000> you're right
<newz2000> All I did was try and resize them
<kwwii> funky
<newz2000> Even the xml isn't very revealing
<troy_s> newz
<troy_s> you getting any support for help?
<troy_s> i also noticed that henrik adjusted some sok specs
<troy_s> kwwii move
<troy_s> you in my german friend?
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, we've been emailing each other
<newz2000> kwwii is looking at the logos... I don't know what henrick's doing
<troy_s> great
<troy_s> kwwii is a good guy to get if you can get a few minutes of his time.
<kwwii> :p
<troy_s> there is the stinker now... quick sit on him
<kwwii> troy_s: you saw the philosophy I assume?
<troy_s> no... got in damn late last night
<troy_s> you got a link?
<troy_s> ferget it... i'll scroll if it is here.
<troy_s> got it.
<newz2000> Glasgow handshake?
<newz2000> kwwii, even the xml editor doesn't reveal much about that branch
<troy_s> kwwii -- you and frank in on the weekly meetings yet?
<kwwii> troy_s: hehe, we had one this morning
* kwwii didn't know that until I got a phone call
<troy_s> frank there?
<troy_s> how did it go?
<kwwii> good
<kwwii> he went a little too far into detail
<kwwii> it wasn't new for me, so it wasn't that amazing :-)
<kwwii> newz2000: that branch is funky
<newz2000> I agree
<troy_s> who is he?
<troy_s> and what do you mean too far into detail?
<troy_s> kwwii?
<kwwii> I meant that frank prepared too well :-)
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> he is very good.
<kwwii> yeah, no shit
<troy_s> i have high hopes once we can get more support team
<kwwii> it was very prodcutive I think
<troy_s> what did you guys go over?
<kwwii> well, you basically give a quick report over what you have done in the last week, and where you are going in the next week
<troy_s> great.
<troy_s> and did frank have a good selection of what has been done etc?  was sabdfl there or just ben and matt etc?
<kwwii> not sure if Mark was in the channel or not, but Matt led it (and normally leads them)
<kwwii> quite a few people are there, so it has to go quickly and smoothly
<troy_s> good stuff.  sounds like a great step towards integrating into the existing structure!
<troy_s> did you have some update details?
<kwwii> ?
<kwwii> not sure I understand what you mean by "update details"
<kwwii> newz2000: I found the branch
<newz2000> oh?
<kwwii> funky, really funky
<newz2000> Did you have to go into the xml?
<troy_s> well you had to offer up how kubuntu side was progressing too no?
<kwwii> newz2000: I tried that but didn't take time to figure it out, so I opened it in AI :p
<newz2000> kwwii: cheater. ;)
<troy_s> someone got a sample?
<kwwii> troy_s: yepp, I mentioned that we have several people starting to take interest in the artwork side of kubuntu, that we now have more presence on the wikis, and that colors, and textures have been discussed
<troy_s> good stuffs.
<kwwii> mentioned that basic ideas are coming in for the stuff included in the spec for edgy as well
<kwwii> yeah, if only I had known about it in advance
<kwwii> :p
<troy_s> did frank pass on what he is working on behind the scenes?  i know we talked about sniping the gtk palette into spectrum etc.
<kwwii> I looked on the fridge last night and didn't see the notice, somehow
<kwwii> yeah, he did
<kwwii> he wrote a full report :-) I was amazed
<troy_s> is this available anywhere?
<troy_s> lol
<kwwii> I guess that the mintues are available somewhere
<newz2000> crud. My brain just exploded. :-P
<newz2000> brb
<troy_s> how the feck do you do rss in epiphany?
<newz2000> sudo apt-get install firefox
* newz2000 is embarrased for the cheeky answer
<newz2000> :-] 
<troy_s> kwwii
<troy_s> you have a linky for the minutes?
<kwwii> nope
<kwwii> no idea where they would be
<kwwii> newz2000: I played around with it a bit: http://bootsplash.org/bzr_idea.svg
<kwwii> not sure if it is any better though
<kwwii> now it looks like a chinese guy with his legs but off
<kwwii> s/but/cut
<kwwii> anway...time for dinner
<newz2000> I wish you'd not told me that thing about the chinese guy. :-)
<kwwii> :-)
<newz2000> Thanks for the help, enjoy your dinner
<newz2000> Yes, by the way, I like you're work. Its much smoother than mine.
<kwwii> no problem :-) be back later
<kwwii> cool :-)
<troy_s> when do you need those newz2000, weekend?
<newz2000> Yeah, that'd be good.
<newz2000> I'm going to start teh moin 1.5 upgrade today (on a test server)
<newz2000> And htmlize the template today/tomorrow.
<troy_s> awsome
<fschoep> troy_s: ping
<troy_s> greets franko
<troy_s> get that jabber account activated yet :)
<troy_s> ?
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> how you been frank?
<fschoep> Busy, kind of.
<troy_s> good.  you should be.
<fschoep> Yeah 24 hours a week.
<troy_s> indeed.
<fschoep> Currently it's more like 24 hours a day.
<troy_s> fair.
<troy_s> :)
<fschoep> So what are / were you doing??
<troy_s> you can always go fulltime i imagine :)
<troy_s> what does that mean?
<troy_s> am i doing?
<troy_s> prepping a show
<fschoep> Yeah, like working or just chlling out?
<troy_s> working
<troy_s> and trying to keep my commitment to ubuntu up
<troy_s> which is tough
<fschoep> OK, how many minutes have you got to spare?
<troy_s> plenty right now
<troy_s> i have a meeting at 5pm here... in five hours.
<troy_s> plus a walkabout in a couple of hours.
<fschoep> Did you have a specific plan in mind for something to do now?
<troy_s> might sit in on the marketing meeting
<troy_s> not entirely... wouldn't mind getting a status update on your end
<troy_s> to see if i can pull in some more resources etc
<troy_s> niklas has a great 16 colour glossy sample as you can see.
<fschoep> I sent you a short reply on your mail, did you read that one yet?
<troy_s> and if you check the contact sheet niel is starting to get the idea of pop (proof of principle) and mock ups down great with the logo
<troy_s> even has compositional transparency
<troy_s> a few anomalies in the model that perhaps you can help him out with.
<troy_s> looks like something to do with extrusion, but i don't know blender too well yet.
<fschoep> I understand, should I just get in touch with Neil?
<troy_s> i started the sketching
<troy_s> yes
<troy_s> i started th sketching based on the lsplash
<fschoep> Sorry, Niel.
<troy_s> because that has the most constraints on it.
<fschoep> The usplash you mean?
<fschoep> Or the login splash?
<troy_s> (i mispell his damn name every time i send him mail :( )
<troy_s> lspash
<fschoep> I was thinking it was a typo, sorry.
<troy_s> mainly because
<troy_s> the lsplash has the most constraints, and the basic look is extrapolated across the logon and wallpaper
<kwwii> hi frank!
<fschoep> Hi Kenneth, how are you doing?
<troy_s> i very much like the idea of exceeding the parameters of the pillbox for the logo or something
<troy_s> hopefully we can work with it...
<fschoep> Yeah, that is kind of neat.
<troy_s> further, i was pondering
<troy_s> talking to the devs to see if we can get true png translucency in there
<fschoep> I'm not sure if it imposes technical difficulties on certain setups.
<fschoep> Yeah that idea crossed my mind as well.
<troy_s> neither... we need to look into it.
<kwwii> fschoep: good, you?
<troy_s> the transparency i know doesn't because they already do it on the default pill for dapper
<fschoep> Fine, a bit busy perhaps.
<troy_s> (with the corners)
<fschoep> Yeah, the burnt corners to have it kind of blend in with the wallpaper.
<troy_s> fschoep, can you adjust the light size in blender?
<kwwii> I wonder how that 16 color logo will look on black
<fschoep> "the light size" what do you mean by that? Spotlight radius, intensity, halo size, blending?
<troy_s> as in is it possible to create a kino like fixture (basically a long fluorescent tube light)
<troy_s> kwwii -- pretty good if it is anti'd against it i imagine.
<troy_s> its more of a pop
<troy_s> which is important at this point
<kwwii> it is very interesting
<fschoep> kwwii: possibly not so hot because of antialiasing to black
<troy_s> if people go and polish the hell out of crap it is a complete waste of time
<troy_s> as a pop, it is terrific
<troy_s> proved to me that it can indeed be done
<troy_s> and done rather pro
<newz2000> Are you guys sure youre allowed 16 colors? Grub bootsplashes are only allowed 14.
<kwwii> yeah
<troy_s> hopefully who_ will show up at some point... i would like a comp version of that gloss logo he had done
<troy_s> yes certain :)
<troy_s> they are 16, with black occupying one
<kwwii> newz2000: as long as the colors are correct, even grub can use 16
<troy_s> plus a bunch of other constraints
<troy_s> but it is all changing.
<newz2000> ok, just making sure
<kwwii> (only two of the colors grub uses has to be in the palette)
<fschoep> newz2000: we need to reserve some colors for text but those can be reused
<newz2000> with that few colors, loosing 2 could be rough
<troy_s> fschoep, speaking of which, you got some formal docs from scott on that blasted usplash?
<kwwii> you can use all those colors in the pic as well, but beware that the programs (grub of usplash) print text using those colors on top of the pic
<fschoep> Working on that
<troy_s> i suppose i could vmware, but it is kind of after the fact when you can tap right into the dev's head.
<troy_s> fschoep, awsome.
<newz2000> kwwii: Thanks again for that log. I dropped the orange down one shade which makes it look a little nicer with the rest of design
<newz2000> I mean logo
<troy_s> i suggest that if anyone is available, the marketing team meeting is in 30 mins
<troy_s> might be worth liasing.
<kwwii> newz2000: cool, sounds nice
<fschoep> I've got a boatload of stuff yet to do today, if you don't mind I'd rather get that kind of done.
<troy_s> fschoep, regarding blender light - i mean the actual dimensions of the light source
<troy_s> because 3d lights are generally quite limited
<troy_s> specular where you only control the size of the spot etc.
<newz2000> fschoep wants to get work done? Crazy talk.
<fschoep> You can change those, but maybe you are confusing "light" with an emitting mesh?
<fschoep> newz2000: Sorry :)
<troy_s> where the light size actually dictates the degree of diffusion (in conjunction with density)
<troy_s> yes
<troy_s> emitting mesh would be exactly what
<troy_s> i would be talking about i believe.
<troy_s> i'll idle in marketing and see if i can keyword anythin
<fschoep> OK, too bad you have limited Blender knowledge 'cause it's kind of hard to explain and compare what you mean by just talking into thin air.
<troy_s> well i had plenty of 3d studio experience from the earlier regime
<fschoep> If you can get a general picture of what you mean, Niel and I can get that done.
<kwwii> I understand what he means, but don't know blender either :p
<troy_s> and i can speak the language well... but blender implementation is limited.
<kwwii> I would know how to do it with c4d though
<troy_s> kwwii -- blender is top notch
<kwwii> fschoep: an emitting mesh with the right shape would probably do it
<troy_s> fschoep, i sent niel a good summary of the tweaks for the pops
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, but the interface is kinda hard to learn
<troy_s> kwwii -- laf... seen 3ds or maya?
<troy_s> its the nature of the beast... pro level 3d is just complicated to the first glance.
<fschoep> Like UNIX, Blender is user-friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
<troy_s> fschoep, LOL
<troy_s> actually i found blender very simple compared to maya or 3ds
<troy_s> but still... i don't know the interface nuances yet.
<troy_s> and i have been focusing on pops... not production
<fschoep> There's something to say about both - I find Blender usable but can't get anything done in 3DS.
<fschoep> Anyway, is there something we can do interactively?
<troy_s> wasting time on churning out work is silly at this point.
<troy_s> well interactive sketching would rock
<troy_s> fschoep, i think niel would be a good guy to show the mesh tech to -- he started scripting for the lighting rotations
<troy_s> i was hoping for 8 angles (12, 130, 3, 430, 6, etc)
<troy_s> from three vantages top/side/bottom, chirocuso, and rim/back
<troy_s> then combine based on promising looks
<kwwii> troy_s: I've done quit a bit of work with both of those, as well as others
<troy_s> both of what?
<kwwii> 3ds, maya
<fschoep> OK, I don't know how Niel's going to automate that, but simply using keyframes would be easier than "scripting".
<troy_s> kwwii, yah i usually just go to folks for 3d related things... never had to be a heavy tool guy.
<troy_s> fschoep, certainly
<troy_s> and pull the proper keys
<kwwii> yepp
<fschoep> The "best" thing I did publicly with Blender were those ice cubes but I know my way around.
<troy_s> fschoep, the other limiter is the fact with a fixed logo, the various positions tend to be non uniform, but i suspect the mesh will solve that... (mesh the length of the logo for example to distribute the sheen accordingly and uniformly)
<troy_s> yes... funny that..
<troy_s> there is a new samsung (?) campaign
<troy_s> with nothing more than an ice cube on it.
<troy_s> very funny... i was going to tell you
<troy_s> big massive ice cube centrepunched
<fschoep> Hehe, that's kind of weird indeed.
<fschoep> But to be honest, I've always been a trendsetter.
<fschoep> J/K :)
<troy_s> you know what i mean by CHIARUSCO correct?
<troy_s> (god looked at my spelling from before and almost puked...)
<fschoep> No, I'm sorry.
<troy_s> learn it... very useful term
<troy_s> it is an italian word for a style of lighting popularized during the ren
<troy_s> it basically means 'light to dark' but
<troy_s> is typified by steep anglular lighting
<troy_s> often people mistake chiarusco for hard light, but if you look to many of the classic painters,
<troy_s> you will see that it is indeed steep, but heavily diffused with near lighting source for great falloff
<troy_s> ok must lunch... back in 15.
<fschoep> I'm not sure if I'm around here much longer, going to do some behind the scenes work now I guess.
<fschoep> Thanks for the explanation btw.
<kwwii> hehe
<fschoep> kwwii: sorry you got CC'ed by third parties on two occasions today.
<kwwii> fschoep: actually it was kinda nice to know what was going on :-)
<fschoep> kwwii: that's the point
<kwwii> you can Cc me more often, if you'd like
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> I have now realized that you do not like irc very much :p
<fschoep> kwwii: I should've CC'ed you myself from the start...
<kwwii> fschoep: don't worry about it, I still love you :-)
<fschoep> I'm not going to comment on IRC :-)
<fschoep> I love U2 (the band that is)
<fschoep> j/k
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> well, we should probably somehow keep in touch more often
<kwwii> so that we both know what the other is doing
<fschoep> Yeah, indeed.
<troy_s> fschoep, idle here damn you
<fschoep> The problem is that I'm already having a hard time getting the right information to the right people and on top of that I actually need to do something.
<fschoep> Well, that's kind of exaggerated.
<kwwii> well, I might be able to help with finding the right people, since I've hung around the devels a bit more
<troy_s> paper trail
<troy_s> make sure you document the stuff so that others can pick up where you leave
<troy_s> and also, remember that the 'team' has existed for a very short time really
<troy_s> in terms of actually getting stuff done
<troy_s> so the progress has been remarkable.
<fschoep> OK, if you look at it that way.
<fschoep> kwwii: that's great, if I need someone I'll get in touch.
<troy_s> it will get easier, trust me...
<troy_s> first guy through the bush has a rough time because he needs to cut down a bunch of brambles and such
<troy_s> eventually, you get a road built and it is far easier
<fschoep> That sounds about correct I guess.
<troy_s> but you need to tell people about the work, or else they will never find the path
<troy_s> ;)
<fschoep> Talking about which, I might now get started on the theme team stuff and get it Wiki'ized.
* kwwii mails the list about the kubuntuPhilosophy wiki page
<fschoep> I might be back later on.
<kwwii> see youu
<fschoep> i'll idle for once :)
<troy_s> bugger themes
<troy_s> has anyone submitted yet?
<troy_s> and make sure that you are clear that themes are more than bloody gnome/kde term themes
<kwwii> what do you mean by theme then?
<kwwii> you mean the whole artwork, in one style, for the entire system, from boot to shutdown?
<kwwii> ie. one "look" for whichever artwork?
<troy_s> kwwii yeppers
<troy_s> exactly.
<kwwii> gotcha
<troy_s> because as soon as you say 'theme', people get so damn focused that it becomes uselses.
<kwwii> very true
<troy_s> so much for fschoep idling... bugger
<kwwii> hey, he was idle for 5 minutes!
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> barely
<kwwii> it is probably his chat client that does it
<kwwii> or he really dislikes irc
<kwwii> :p
* kwwii moves over to another computer...brb
<troy_s> there he is
<kwwii> re
<troy_s> fschoep what is up with all your quts?
<troy_s> fschoep, you using xchat?
<fschoep> troy_s: I think my MB's sleep is interfering with IRC
<fschoep> I just close the lid and walk off, probably not the best way to do this.
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> sleep shutting down the lan
<troy_s> goofy
<fschoep> It's wireless, I can imagine it shutting off when closing the lid.
<kwwii> frank, are you coming to the U Sprint in Wiesbaden?
<kwwii> UI Sprint
<kwwii> it is planned during my vacation in america, so I am looking at changing my flights
<kwwii> not sure how that will work, though
<kwwii> it would be really good for at least one of us to be there :-)
<fschoep> kwwii: Wiesbaden, which country is that?
<fschoep> Sounds German...
<fschoep> It is in Germany, that's doable.
<fschoep> kwwii: If I can get approval for the trip I'd do it.
<fschoep> kwwii: is UISprint the same as the DistroSprint, on the 24th of August?
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> germany it is
<kwwii> right by frankfurt
<kwwii> yepp, they are the same
<troy_s> wtf is ui sprint?
<troy_s> where's the wiki page?
<kwwii> well, it was called that like that last time, that is where I got the name
<kwwii> wiki.ubuntu.com
<kwwii> UbuntuDeveloperSprintWiesbaden
<kwwii> it is only a few people sitting together and really working out problems
<kwwii> much more fun and intensive than Paris
<fschoep> More fun than Paris, I'm already looking forward to it :)
<kwwii> :p
<fschoep> kwwii: Who is the contact for arranging attendance?
<fschoep> Couldn't read that on the Wiki page...
<kwwii> fschoep: send Jane an email...she sent me one today in response to a question I had about my contract and mentioned she wants you to attend as well
<fschoep> kwwii: Jane Silber?
<fschoep> Sorry for asking, I thought there were multiple Janes.
<kwwii> fschoep: yepp
<kwwii> yeah, there are
<fschoep> kwwii: I'll get on it right away then, I'll let you know.
<kwwii> hopefully I will be able to change my flights
<troy_s> who all attends?
<fschoep> troy_s: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSprintWiesbaden
<fschoep> kwwii: Do you enjoy a DS more than a holiday :) ?
<troy_s> no, but i consider ubuntu 'business' related
<troy_s> so i tend to make exceptions if it doesn't bone me too much
<fschoep> Troy, I was asking Kenneth, I didn't mean to offend you...
<kwwii> fschoep: it is in our contracts that we have to attend :p
<fschoep> kwwii: right, I kind of forgot that
<kwwii> well, I actually had these tickets before the contract started, and I guess they would understand, but I think i will change my fights anyway :p
<fschoep> OK, wouldn't your wife mind?
<fschoep> Sorry, that's none of my business...
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> don't worry so much :-)
<fschoep> That's kind of tough :)
<kwwii> she is not coming anyway...her mother is really sick and is already in a hospice, they do not know how long she has left to live
<kwwii> things here are tough all around
<kwwii> now, I shut everyone up
<kwwii> sorry
<fschoep> That's unfortunate to hear Kenneth, best wishes and strength (I'm not sure if those are the words I was looking for) from my side of the universe to you.
<fschoep> And your family, of course.
<kwwii> fschoep: thanks man, it is a tough time but we wil get through it
<kwwii> that is what being a family is all about :-)
<fschoep> I think it is, yeah. I hope you get through this and have some good times again.
<troy_s> fschoep, you can't offend me frank.
<troy_s> and none was taken
<fschoep> OK, that's cool.
<troy_s> laf... dare i say it is impossible.
<troy_s> i have thick skin... pretty production driven.
<fschoep> By the way. what does "laf" mean, is it shorthand for "laugh"?
<troy_s> indeed.
<fschoep> OK, that's at least one thing I understand.
<kwwii> I bet I can offend you :-)
<kwwii> I am really good at that!
<fschoep> laf
<troy_s> kwwii:  i doubt it.
<troy_s> lol
<fschoep> Maybe you should try it in a private conversation so that we don't need to collectively see you in action, Kenneth :)
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> so perhaps pin niklas with some
<troy_s> compositions for logo
<troy_s> etc.
<kwwii> hehe
<troy_s> pretty sure he can adopt the PoP approach there frank, if you push him in the right direction
<troy_s> fschoep, by the way, do you know how to smooth that extrusion issue in niels pops?
<fschoep> I'd have to see what the mesh looks like in Blender, maybe the normals are facing incorrect, maybe there are duplicate vertices and maybe it's a matter of setting subsurf to something higher.
<troy_s> have you mailed niel yet fschoep?
<troy_s> he is quite accessible
<fschoep> troy_s: Not yet. I'll do it right away.
<fschoep> troy_s: Most important things are getting his mesh OK and adjusting the lighting?
<troy_s> actually, yes... getting the keyframes down for the 8 looks per style (rim/back, chiarusco, and top/side/bottom
<troy_s> i think if we get the model in shape
<troy_s> then banging out the samplings are very easy, especially when someone like sabdfl steps up and says 'try this...'
<troy_s> then it is damn easy to knock off variants.
<fschoep> OK, so basically we need a scene with the Ubuntu logo and animation settings set up so that rendering the animation will create eight frames each with different lighting
<troy_s> indeed.
<fschoep> Sounds doable.
<troy_s> easy enough in a 3d prog if you have the knowledge.
<troy_s> then we can perhaps bang out a logo model
<fschoep> When that is done we can easily adjust material properties to fiddle around.
<troy_s> the reason being is that getting 'looks' is far easier when they are automated
<fschoep> Sure. I understand.
<troy_s> then niklas or someone has a reference to build on or something
<troy_s> exactly!
<fschoep> I'll contact Niel to work this out right now.
<troy_s> whats the screenshot hotkey in gnome?
<fschoep> troy_s: ctrl + prscr do anything?
<troy_s> no ;)
<fschoep> Use GIMP then :)
<fschoep> File -> Acquire -> Screenshot
<troy_s> supposed to be print screen... hrm
<kwwii> step 1) get your digicam
<troy_s> LOL
<troy_s> got it... fecking "F" enable key crap
<troy_s> there is one fschoep  with the background
<troy_s> very very very very very rough...
<troy_s> but you will get the idea.
<fschoep> OK, I'm excited already.
<troy_s> selective blur is a very interesting tool.
<troy_s> you get a strange sort of oil feel to images.
<troy_s> surreal, generated, yet natural.
<fschoep> Indeed, you can also use it for a "cartoony" feel with smooth solid areas.
<troy_s> as you can see from my damn desktop, my workarea is centered around one topic
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> well two if you count the film crap on there.
<troy_s> i spent quite a bit of time examining the osx thematics...
<fschoep> Me too, by using it :)
<troy_s> it is interesting that they went with the tiger motif for some of their things.
<troy_s> not the way i would have implemented it, but interesting none the less.
<fschoep> They did?
<troy_s> uh jag, tiger, yeah
<troy_s> wallpapers and such
<troy_s> in fact, some of their marketing used it.
<fschoep> That's something I remember, with the furry X.
<troy_s> fschoep, do you think honey234 has enough gloss to it?
<troy_s> or 240 for that matter.
<fschoep> It's kind of hard to see on the screenshot but they look like a caramel like substance, with gloss, yes.
<troy_s> the ripple conch is interesting because it very boldly takes a mystical feel /interesting
<kwwii> conch144 made me think of a dildo
<kwwii> sorry, but it is true
<kwwii> cause of that I spent the night taking photos of my wifes sex toys :p
<troy_s> laflaflaflaflaflaflaflaflaf
<fschoep> Hold on, I'm going to look at it :)
<troy_s> i noticed the vaguely cthulian / vaginal sets
<troy_s> there are some in there that are definitely pretty hilarious...
<kwwii> actually there is some really neat stuff there
<troy_s> its bloody funny you should say that...
<troy_s> cuz i swear i was laughing out loud
<troy_s> ripple-shell54 is totally vaginal without any tweaks.
<fschoep> I can't seem to find the resemblance conch144 or maybe I'm just tired.
<kwwii> troy_s: did you remove the bubbles?
<troy_s> bubbles?
<troy_s> nope
<troy_s> that's all of them there.
<troy_s> the beads are there
<troy_s> everything is there.
<troy_s> well last imagemagick dump...
<kwwii> ahhh, now I see them
<troy_s> i know which ones i am probably going to head towards, so the only new photography i am going to mock up will be for the cd inserts.
<troy_s> fschoep, look-small3 is basically the wallpaper on that deskshot i showed you
<kwwii> which is a good subject to talk about
<kwwii> fschoep: do you want to make the entire layout of the CDs, or just work on parts of it?
<troy_s> i think we really need to try and at least liason with the marketing/doc guys
<troy_s> because it should involve them.
<fschoep> kwwii: well, I haven't got *any* CMYK capable software yet so I'm pretty much out of the league anyway
<troy_s> we could easily submit mockups
<troy_s> fschoep -- gimp has cmyk plugins
<kwwii> as for me, the only real problem I had with the kubuntu layout was the picture of the gear, as well as the relation of that to the greyed out ones on the inside and back
<mhb> good evening everyone
<troy_s> evening
<kwwii> evening mhb
<fschoep> evening
<troy_s> fschoep and there is good cmyk support in a few tools.
<troy_s> imagemagick to name at least one :)
<troy_s> needless to say, that is not worth worrying about...
<fschoep> kwwii: I understand, d'you think we need to step back and only judge the artwork done by the third party?
<troy_s> just provide a macbeth with the image and poof
<troy_s> good to go.
<jenda> Can anyone help me? I have a .svg and want a prof. printer to print it for me. Saving to eps doesn't work. Are there any solutions available? (I can email the file, it's tiny)
<kwwii> fschoep: well, I think we should at least do that, if not more
<troy_s> kwwii:  mock ups are certainly worthwhile to showing to the marketing folks etc.
<troy_s> but that takes sketching
<kwwii> troy_s: yepp
<troy_s> and people get too carried away with 'producing' right now.
<troy_s> pops are critical long before production.
<kwwii> I just wanted us all to be on the same page with this
<kwwii> exactly
<troy_s> i think we can contact sheet a good selection of
<troy_s> pops for the marketers
<troy_s> jenda:  what target does he/she want?
<kwwii> jenda: to be honest, I would open it in adobe and save it with that
<jenda> troy_s: eps, preferably.
<troy_s> jenda:  just provide a macbeth then use imagemagick to vert it.
<jenda> kwwii: to be honest, I don't have adobe :)
<troy_s> and compare
<kwwii> I have had little luck with the eps export functionality of inkscape
* jenda too
<troy_s> imagemagick does it well i believe
<jenda> I'll try that.
<kwwii> yeah, try imagemagick, good point troy_s
<troy_s> but again, you never know what calibration they have their mons set to
<troy_s> so always do a comparison against a macbeth or something akin to it
<troy_s> and ship both
<troy_s> with me?
<jenda> Not really :)
<jenda> never heard of macbeth
<troy_s> a macbeth is a colour chart
<troy_s> with pre-defined colours on it
<jenda> Ah
<jenda> I'm not sure if they'd know how to use that
<troy_s> you can 'assume' that everyone is in blah land with calibrated monitors, but i would NEVER bet on it.
<troy_s> basically
<kwwii> yeah, and it won't do cmyk anyway (as svg does not do cmyk)
<troy_s> it is simply a colour chart with cmyk etc.
<kwwii> yepp
<troy_s> it has 'blue' red etc
<troy_s> so they can simply compare against whatever they are using for their reffing
<jenda> Wouldn't it be easier to find someone with adobe and have them convert it? ;)
<troy_s> and you can be relatively sure that if your colours spec against whatever sample chart you provide
<troy_s> that it will print the way you see it on your monitor
<troy_s> with me?
<troy_s> no
<jenda> with you, es
<troy_s> because you still aren't guaranteed reproduction
<jenda> OK
<troy_s> you need a constant really...
<troy_s> and even though everyone thinks that using adobe or whatever will give you results, it won't.
<jenda> I'm happy with approximate colors
<troy_s> it ultimately depends on the inks, the papers
<troy_s> etc
<jenda> OK
<troy_s> so just ship them a simple colour ref
<troy_s> with your image
<troy_s> and you shouldn't have too many problems
<troy_s> (as it is damn hard to see relative colour spectrums once your cones and rods get tired of looking at an image)
<jenda> OK...
<jenda> I'm not with you again :)
<troy_s> laf.
<jenda>  simple colour ref = png?
<troy_s> well colour management attempts to handle all this
<troy_s> sure
<jenda> good enough? OK
<jenda> I have those done.
<troy_s> but the problem is that colour management would only work with an established
<troy_s> relationship
<jenda> no idea what you mean
<troy_s> if you take your stuff to someone that you don't know, you will want to say 'here is my blue here is my red etc'
<troy_s> here is my picture... print
<kwwii> color management is soo hard..for instance have you calibrated your monitor today? do you have the profile for the printer? etc.
<troy_s> exactly
<jenda> btw: http://www.tikal26.net/ubuntu/Samolepka-NC.png
<troy_s> so simply using a reference image with your final product is probably the easiest way to make sure you get something close to what you want.
<jenda> OK - that's good. I'll just give them the png with that, but...
<troy_s> yep... so compare that against a standard colour test
<jenda> how do I get the eps?
<troy_s> and make sure that the brown looks decent
<troy_s> etc.
<jenda> no idea...
<troy_s> imagemagick should do eps
<troy_s> convert blah.in blah.out
<kwwii> jenda: command line: "convert yoursvg.svg name.eps
<troy_s> with all of its nuances... www.imagemagick.org
<jenda> OK
<troy_s> it is a very amazing tool.
<kwwii> yeah, I feel stupid for not mentioning it first :-(
<troy_s> now i must go wander through a studio for a few hours... be good folks
* troy_s is out for a bit.
<jenda> laters, and thanks
<kwwii> hehe, I gotta run to the gas station....brb
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o troy_s]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : Welcome! -+- Start here:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork  -+- Work Specs at http://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs -+- IRC Logs:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs -+- Loose proposals for the Proposal phase are underway.
<jenda> imagemagick doesn't work for me.
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+k r]  by troy_s
<jenda> nevermind
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-k r]  by troy_s
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-r]  by troy_s
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
<troy_s> jenda you get it working?
<troy_s> it is a bit tricky at first, but imagemagick is damn powerful (even with 16 bits per channel colour depths)
<jenda> No. I'll try them with svg :)
<jenda> the file doesn't open, and i currently have too much to work on to spend more time on it. Thanks, troy_s.
<troy_s> if you don't have eps enabled ware
<troy_s> it probably won' topen
<troy_s> but you can take both
<troy_s> pretty sure that imagemagick will create a valid eps :)
<troy_s> http://www.imagemagick.org/script/formats.php
<jenda> I have no way of checking...
<troy_s> jenda you will also need ghostscript :
<troy_s> to view it.
<jenda> why?
<troy_s> if you read that page
<jenda> OK
<troy_s> because only gv handles eps properly
<troy_s> i believe
<troy_s> jenda:  sudo apt-get install gv
<troy_s> should suffice
<jenda> No, it doesn't open.
<jenda> I'll send the the svg
<kwwii> re
<fschoep> I'm going to sleep. Goodnight Ken, Troy and everyone else.
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-14
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> and jenda is in here as well...im sure he has ran his "SpreadUbuntu" campaign past all of you!!!
<kwwii> :-)
<nixternal> any of you create any posters yet?
<kwwii> btw. kubuntu also has stickers like the ubuntu ones, as well as padded stickers, and more
<nixternal> i have been messing around with inkscape for creating a poster for my LoCo
<nixternal> i want stickers!!!
<kwwii> I made the banners as well
<nixternal> i have been printing my own stickers out
<nixternal> is this all located under the /Artwork wiki?
<kwwii> oh, and someone printed a bunch of coffee cups too
<nixternal> but i don't have one ;(
<kwwii> nope
<nixternal> haha
<kwwii> I could put the banner stuff there, since I did it
<nixternal> you keeping your stuff anywhere accessible???
<kwwii> the other things were previous to my involvement
<nixternal> besides the wiki that is?
<nixternal> like your blog ;)
<kwwii> until now, no
<nixternal> ahh..k
<kwwii> I should make a wiki page I guess
<nixternal> get the images up there..you guys are holding all the good stuff close..i know it
<kwwii> hehe
<nixternal> so..for kubuntu edgy, no more bubbles right?
<kwwii> not sure, really
* nixternal begs
<nixternal> hehe
<kwwii> I saw some really nice bubble pics
<nixternal> i actually grabbed a human color scheme from kde-look, i actually like it
<nixternal> there must be a story behind the bubbles
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> nope, just kinda pulled that out of my ass
<nixternal> hahahah
<kwwii> from concept to product in one day
<kwwii> I think edgy should be purple
<nixternal> i wouldn't let every know that ;)
<nixternal> oh lord..you and hobbsee with purple
<nixternal> gentoo like is ok..barney the dinosaur purple is bad
<kwwii> hehe
<nixternal> i like the gray/blue stuff for some reason
<kwwii> well, we will see what comes out of our new artwork process
<nixternal> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=31556
<nixternal> the colors in that are what im talking about
<nixternal> i know i have seen some of the gnome work and i am truelly impressed
* nixternal likes the hybrid theme big time
<kwwii> to be honest, I am not so big on such muted colors
<kwwii> but lots of people seem to like them
<nixternal> i never was myself
<nixternal> until i grabbed that wallpaper
<kwwii> I guess the icons look nice on it
<nixternal> http://home.comcast.net/~nixternal//images/misc/yakuake.jpg
<nixternal> errr
<nixternal> http://home.comcast.net/~nixternal/images/misc/yakuake.jpg
<nixternal> that has been my layout for a while now
<nixternal> i don't use desktop icons at all, since i never get to see it ;)
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> dude, you chat too much
<kwwii> how do you ever keep track of all those channels?
<nixternal> i don't
<kwwii> :p
<nixternal> when they turn red i goto them
<nixternal> the middle ones aren't high traffic so..it isn't to bad
<kwwii> well, about time for bed
<nixternal> alrighty..i will get with you later on the art stuff
<kwwii> I'll make a wik page tomorrow and put up anything I can find that is marketing related
<nixternal> im gonna go eat..and maybe hit the chain tonight ;)
<nixternal> nixternal at gmail dot com
<nixternal> or just ping me in here with info ;)
<kwwii> cool, will do
<nixternal> all the same, i will get it one way or the other
<nixternal> thanks kwwii!!!
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> see you
<nixternal> ttyl
<viper550> Man, can't wait to hear who my theme team is!
<troy_s> what?
<troy_s> is it just me or do some people who chat in here seem like they need some serious chemical alignments?
<troy_s> oh kwwii
<troy_s> ping
<nixternal> kwwii is passed out ;)
<nixternal> whats up troy_s
<nixternal> you got some pimpage on the MarketingTeam Meeting Minutes email today ;)
<troy_s> huh?
<troy_s> i added some content to the launchpad howto at the wiki -- because i probably should have done that sooner.
<nixternal> good deal
<troy_s> nixternal, hopefully you guys can really get some good coordination going.
<nixternal> do you have the art team setup as a "Project" on the launchpad?
<troy_s> hrm?
<nixternal> in order to do specs, they have to be created on a "Project", "Program", or "Distribution"
<troy_s> ahh yes...
<troy_s> well our specs target packages
<troy_s> generally
<nixternal> ya, that is true
<troy_s> but if you have a wiki page or howto or something, i certainly will look at it.
<nixternal> whereas the marketing team wouldn't
<nixternal> that is why i was thinking a "Marketing" Project
<nixternal> and everything will fall under that
<troy_s> indeed... it is a _little_ different, but the generalities of launchpad can benefit almost every team.
<nixternal> Project == Marketing Team, and then the Programs == SpreadUbuntu, Magazine, Press Team....and so on
<troy_s> ah
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o troy_s]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-t]  by troy_s
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+t]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o troy_s]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : Welcome! -+- Start here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork -+- Work Specs at http://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs -+- IRC Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs -+- Loose proposals for the Proposal phase are underway.
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o kwwii]  by troy_s
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
<troy_s> +1
<Madpilot> hmm?
<troy_s> don't know
<troy_s> it was the devil in me
<troy_s> how you doing mad?
<troy_s> how's doc team progressing Madpilot ?
<Madpilot> slow right now
<troy_s> how come?
<Madpilot> we're waiting for the source of the official Ubuntu book to be released, so we can incorporate it into our onscreen docs
<troy_s> ah.
<troy_s> the one from prentice hall?
<Madpilot> yes
<Madpilot> it's going to be "open sourced" just after it's paper publication
<troy_s> interesting.
<troy_s> so what is currently cooking in doc land?
<troy_s> anything interesting?
<Madpilot> a Switching From Windows guide, which is nice to have
<troy_s> yes...
<troy_s> i always thought it would be nice to have a 'what you can do out of box with ubuntu'
<troy_s> as opposed to the traditional 'how do i do this that i used to do in windows' garbage.
<troy_s> like streaming ogg classical, edit photos, etc.
<troy_s> out of box, the ubuntu experience is pretty darn impressive, it just takes a little doc spin.
<Madpilot> ya
<troy_s> does the doc team use launchpad yet to track projects or accept braindumps?
<Madpilot> not really, we've always just used the mailing list, and our SVN repo
<troy_s> too bad.
<Madpilot> it seems to work, we got a decent set of docs out for Dapper
<troy_s> there are specs for doc things already though.  just kind of curious why there wouldn't be officially tracked specs.
<klepas> moin
<Madpilot> waky, you know, you could just set your away status in your IRC client, quietly, and not spam channels with useless nick changing...
<Madpilot> http://www.warbard.ca/temp/Bzr-logo.svg
<troy_s> nice to see someone trying to help newz.
<Madpilot> it's an excuse to play in Inkscape :)
<lapo> hi
<kwwii_> how does one attach a picture to a wiki page?
<kwwii_> I knew once, but apparently forgot
<kwwii_> duh
<kwwii_> me be dumb
<Viper550> I've finally decided to use xchat-gnome instead of Konversation
<kwwii_> hehe
* kwwii_ still uses konversation
<Viper550> Yeah, much nicer, and I don't have to mess with kcontrol to make it look good in Gnome
<kwwii_> but I used xchat for a long time
<Viper550> Is the "real" xchat nicer?
<kwwii_> well, it doesn't fit well into any desktop, but it works great :-)
<Viper550> It's GTK, right?
<kwwii_> yepp
<kwwii_> erm, no, I do not think it is
<lapo> it's gtk, not but not gnome
<kwwii_> yeah, exactly
<lapo> s/not but/but/
<Viper550> but that means it uses GTK themes, so it matches (in a way)
<Viper550> Does it look good with Ubuntulooks?
<lapo> yes it matches quite well imho
* kwwii_ is off to shop for dinner...bbl
<Viper550> Now using X-Chat
<Viper550> I just figured out the meaning of Xchat-Gnome
<Viper550> Does this channel deal with every Ubuntu fork?
<klepas> kwwii_: should use irssi
<klepas> so much nicer and dead simple :-)
<kwwii_> yeah, no doubt
<kwwii_> i used it for years, actually
<klepas> i quite like it
<kwwii_> when I was loggin into my server to chat (and leaving that running all the time) it was great
<newz2000> kwwii, perfect timing
<newz2000> I just popped in to see if you were here
<kwwii_> :-)
<newz2000> http://bzr.newz.gotdns.com/htdocs/new/BZR%20Concept2006-07-14-1.svg
<newz2000> There's my concept for bzr
<Viper550> Hello
<newz2000> hi
<Viper550> Does anyone here use Xubuntu?
<newz2000> kwwii: I'm kind of thinking about taking the yellow part of the logo out and making the orange part yellow.
<newz2000> But I don't have a tremendous eye for color
<kwwii_> hehe, that looks pretty nice
<Viper550> Anyone here deal with Xubuntu artwork?
<newz2000> I want to be bold, but sometimes I'm just not gutsy enough
<kwwii_> yeah, maybe yellow only would look nicer
<kwwii_> it would look more proffesional
<newz2000> I'll try it
<Viper550> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=42515 Made it myself
<mhb> Viper550: not many people responding, are they? :o)
<Viper550> I see
<newz2000> Does inkscape have the concept of creating slices like photoshop?
<Viper550> Define "creating slices"
<kwwii_> newz2000: nope
<mhb> Viper550: not many people here are using it, AFAIK
<newz2000> slices are where you use guides to mark out parts of art that will be saved as separate images
<Viper550> Not many people using Xubuntu
<newz2000> Viper550: haven't used XFCE since 3.0 came out
<mhb> Viper550: artists need powerful machines
<newz2000> "what? You've only got one core?"
<newz2000> :-D
<Viper550> That's why I have begun contributing art to Xubuntu, not many people are wanting to do so
<mhb> Viper550: the trouble is that most people are here for Ubuntu
<mhb> Viper550: with only a few exceptions
<newz2000> kwwii_: http://bzr.newz.gotdns.com/htdocs/new/BZR%20Concept2006-07-14-2.svg
<newz2000> the previous one is there.
<newz2000> it's a -1 instad of -2 at the end
<newz2000> I trust your eye for color, which do you like better?
<kwwii_> newz2000: perhaps the line around the outside should be a bit thicker? (take the old orange version of that part and make it yellow)?
<newz2000> Yes, I agree
<newz2000> kwwii_ are you using inkscape or illustrator?
<kwwii_> newz2000: both :-)
<kwwii_> I try to use inkscape as much as possible
<kwwii_> using inkscape I just added a 2px yellow stroke to the outer path and it looks a bit better I think
<newz2000> ah, thats how you do that
<kwwii_> well, in illustrator I would offset the path
<kwwii_> which I actually like better because I can add rounding, etc, :-)
<newz2000> I thought I knew what you meant, but it didn't work out. I've about got it the manual way of splitting the two logos and combining the parts from each that I like
<kwwii_> I dig the grey boxes...the text looks nice on it
<kwwii_> newz2000: that will work too :-)
<kwwii_> if you open it in inkscape and click on the yellow line on the outside (the rotated squarish thing) and then give it a stroke (in the fill and stroke dialogue)
<kwwii_> enter two pixels and make the stroke color yellow :-)
<newz2000> Got it
<newz2000> Oh, wait.
<newz2000> It stroked the middle part too
<kwwii_> ungroup them
<newz2000> It says its not a group
<newz2000> did you break it into paths?
<kwwii_> ahh shit
<kwwii_> I just noticed that
<kwwii_> hrm, then I would split the path
<newz2000> That's OK, I did the other way
<kwwii_> erm, but that fscks it up
<newz2000> ok, let me try spliting it
<kwwii_> break it apart
<kwwii_> and then select only the two paths that made that path
<kwwii_> and then combine them
<kwwii_> than add the stroke again
<kwwii_> yeah, that works, I just did it
<newz2000> OK, so when I do that I get what looks like to filled diamons
<kwwii_> hehe
<kwwii_> let me send you the version I just did
<kwwii_> ?
<newz2000> ok
<newz2000> wait, I got it
<kwwii_> :-)
<newz2000> I forgot to combine them. Once I did that it worked
<kwwii_> :-)
<kwwii_> cool
<newz2000> I really don't use vectors often
<newz2000> Well, I will be now.
<newz2000> I can't get my photoshop working in Dapper. It pukes on some fonts
<mhb> newz2000: you can get msfonts (from easyubuntu)
<newz2000> I think I have too many fonts actually.
<newz2000> It worked then I realized I was missing my fonts, so installed them into gnome.
<newz2000> That was the last time photoshop ran.
<newz2000> Interestingly, image ready works fine.
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> that is really funky
<newz2000> yeah
<newz2000> Now if there only was a way to maintain layers when transfering betwen inkscape and imageready
<kwwii> then again, I somehow got all of my adobe products to *only* open files from the file open dialogue
<kwwii> inkscape should have slices implemented :-)
<newz2000> yeah, this weekend I'll add it to their list.
<newz2000> I talked to them and they've about got blur working
<newz2000> They say it works but is murder on the renderer. I don't know what that means
<newz2000> except that they must not be 100% happy with it yet.
<kwwii> funny, it should not be too hard
<kwwii> well, I guess doing it on live objects is something else
<newz2000> I figure once we have blur then things like drop shadows and outer glow will be a piece of cake.
<kwwii> yepp,definitely
<kwwii> I have hard coded stuff like that before, it works great
<newz2000> you added the filters to the xml?
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> svg supports most of them already
<kwwii> well, it supports blur
<newz2000> Did you have problems finding a viewer to see the end result?
<kwwii> and the other things are just matrice stuff on the color channels, etc.
<kwwii> nope, batick does it great
<newz2000> oh, I remember batick.
<newz2000> http://bzr.newz.gotdns.com/htdocs/new/BZR%20Concept2006-07-14-4.svg
<newz2000> that has the 2px stroke on the outside only
<newz2000> I like that the logo you made is so much more uniform than mine, but not so uniform that it looks rigid and angular.
<kwwii> hehe, thanks
<kwwii> I liked the way it has a natural feel to it...it makes it friendly
<newz2000> I agree
<newz2000> The bzr folk like it too.
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> hrm, the stroke is only 1px in that version
<newz2000> oh yeah
<kwwii> I think it might look a bit better with 2
<kwwii> or 1.5 or such
<newz2000> no, it was 1
<newz2000> I forgot that I abanded my broken apart one
<kwwii> since it is not aligned perfectly to a grid a strange pixel size for the stroke shouldn't matter
<newz2000> yeah
<newz2000> When rasterizing, some of the strokes on my graphics come out looking fuzzy.
<newz2000> There must be a trick to sizing those just right so they don't have that problem
<newz2000> 2.000 looks good btw.
<newz2000> I updated the graphic on that link
<kwwii> I just dumped a coke on my computer, one second
<newz2000> uh oh
<kwwii>  sdfghzki
<kwwii> ok
<kwwii> better now
<kwwii> it is an emac
<kwwii> these things have the most amazing keyboards
<kwwii> you cannot fsck them up
<newz2000> amazing
<kwwii> and it is one big fully contained box, so nothing can get into it
<newz2000> we need computers like on star trek. All voice controlled.
<kwwii> that would make artwork really hard
<newz2000> (and you thought telling me how to fix the stroke was tricky)
<kwwii> or really easy
<mhb> we need better tools
<mhb> so kwwii won't need illustrator
<kwwii> tell your computer to "increase stroke to XML ID 4239842987 to 2 pixels and make it tango yellow"
<kwwii> and then you say "now it says something about them being connected paths????"
<newz2000> yeah, and left a little
<kwwii> I think I will stick to a decent GUI for now
<newz2000> me too
<andreasn> newz2000: nice mockup
<newz2000> thanks
<newz2000> If you think it looks cool now, you should have seen it before the first round of revisions
<newz2000> :D
<newz2000> Can I get an amen?
<kwwii> amen!
<newz2000> phew. I thought my works might be the only ones that get slaughtered
<kwwii> might I suggest one more change?
<newz2000> yes, please
<kwwii> the logo is also used in the bg of the box that says "learn bazaar"
<kwwii> perhaps you could make that more transparent and/or white and more transparent?
<kwwii> and it should be the exact same logo as above
<andreasn> "learn bazaar", shouldn't that read "learn about bazaar"?
<newz2000> ah. You think its a little too bold for the background there?
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> or if you leave it as is, at least use the same version as the one directly above it
<newz2000> andreasn: yeah, it could be. I've been trying to avoid it though.
<newz2000> kwwii, I'll do both. Switch that logo out and make it lighter somehow.
<kwwii> newz2000: you might have to make the yellow lighter, instead of adding transparency
<kwwii> not sure
<newz2000> yeah, the transparency made it muddy gray
<newz2000> Lighter makes it almost radiant though, so it will need a little of both
<jenda> aloha, newz2000, kwwii.
<newz2000> howdy jenda
<jenda> newz2000: I managed to create the bzr branch ;)
<kwwii> howdy jenda
<jenda> Full of spreadubuntu art now :)
<kwwii> jenda: I started a wiki page with a few marketing things
<jenda> kwwii: linky?
<newz2000> jenda, you'll have to tell me how you did it, or point me towards the docs that taught you
<kwwii> the banner I made for canonical, a flyer I made for kubuntu, and more is coming
<kwwii> jenda: wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Marketing
<jenda> newz2000: I was guided, so I'll rather tell you :)
<newz2000> Do you have time now or would you like to do it some other time?
<jenda> kwwii: what's the difference between that and DIYMarketing ?
<jenda> newz2000: now's good, if you like ;)
<newz2000> Sure
<jenda> I'll have to scrounge my memory...
<jenda> it's done from the terminal, not LP
<jenda> Do you have ssh key taht LP recognises?
<kwwii> jenda: well, only the banners have been officially approved so far
<newz2000> yes
<jenda> kwwii: by whom?
<kwwii> jenda: so I saw that as a place to put things before they go onto the DIY
<kwwii> jenda: Jane approved them (with others, I guess) and canonical paid for them to be made
<jenda> OK...
<kwwii> you must understand, that those banners are two meters high and 80cm wide, so nobody else is going to print them
<jenda> newz2000: cd to your directory, the one you want branched.
<jenda> kwwii: yes yes, I understand. But I'm 95% certain you don't need approval to include stuff in DIYMarketing.
<jenda> newz2000: type bzr init-repo --trees
<kwwii> jenda: really? wow...I was afraid to simply add them there
<newz2000> requires argument location
<jenda> gah
<newz2000> Don't sweat it
<jenda> make it bzr init :)
<jenda> sorry
<jenda> then 'bzr add'
<newz2000> ok, that worked
<jenda> now you publish it
<jenda> do you want it to be a team-accessible branch, or just you?
<jenda> (write access)
<newz2000> Well, I haven't created a spec for this project yet
<newz2000> Does it get associated with the spec?
<jenda> nope
<jenda> only a group
<newz2000> oh
<jenda> you can associate it with a bug, I think ;)
<newz2000> I might need to do some more planning before I do this then.
<newz2000> But I can version my changes locally wtih this?
<jenda> yes
<jenda> well you can do one to try it out :) that's what i did by accident. It's still there, marked abandoned, and they disappear, supposedly.
<jenda> (so they say ;) )
<newz2000> ok
<jenda> Anyway, the command is: bzr push sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~<user>/<project>/<branch>
<jenda> <user> can be you or a team
<jenda> <project> is the project it should be under... lemme think.. umm
<kwwii> newz2000: I played with that box a bit...http://bootsplash.org/next_idea.svg
<kwwii> made the logo much bigger and clipped it by the box
<jenda> right, newz2000, you need to register a product for the branch to go with.
<newz2000> kwwii: good idea
<jenda> PRODUCT, not project, sorry about that ;)
<newz2000> Yeah, I've got a product
<newz2000> ubuntu-website
<jenda> OK, good enough :)
<newz2000> I'm going to wait to do that for a bit
<jenda> and <branch> is whatever you want it to be called.
<jenda> OK, do that, then.
<newz2000> did you have to do anything else?
<jenda> No, it's done then.
<newz2000> So I wonder if bzr branches are like cvs branches
<jenda> Every upstream update is bzr add, bzr commit, bzr push after that.
<jenda> PRetty much, they are.
<newz2000> So there might be a 1_0 for the 1.0 release
<newz2000> but basically each branch is a progression from a previous branch
<newz2000> oh, I gotta go guys...
<newz2000> got to get new tires for my wife's car
<newz2000> you know what that means?
<newz2000> The cars going to die in < 4 weeks
<newz2000> I hate getting new tires, its like a curse
<newz2000> TTL guys
<mhb> see you
<jenda> How about a 0_0 for the 0.0 release?
<jenda> :-D
<jenda> later ;)
<kwwii> newz2000: I fixed up a few small problems with that last version, reload it
<kwwii> hehe, I just now read back to see that he is gone
<mhb> kwwii: heh ... so true, so you :o)
<kwwii> I am always doing ten things at once
<jenda> Good night, you two, I'm off.
<kwwii> night jenda
<newz2000> kwwii: what did you do on that last revision?
<kwwii> I fixed the clipping on the logo on the box
<kwwii> and changed the little logo at lower down to the same one as above
<newz2000> oh, thanks
<kwwii> no problem
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-15
<newz2000> kwwii: http://freshmeat.net/projects/svgslice/
<kwwii> killer :-)
<newz2000> dream come true maybe
<kwwii> hehe, it works perfectly :-)
<kwwii> killer shit
<kwwii> one less thing to do with adobe products
<lapo> hi
<kwwii> hi
<newz2000> g'night
<kwwii> thanks for the tip newz2000
<kwwii> time for bed, night all
<andreasn> night kwwii
<Viper550> Hello again
<Madpilot> hi
<Viper550> Guess what...Slab is getting closer to inclusion on Edgy!
<Viper550> Want proof? Just look at my spec page: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-slab
<imbrandon> proof?
<Viper550> Review phase
<imbrandon> true it might go in universe, but not default or main ( we are in UVF ;P )
<imbrandon> Madpilot, what was that all about ?
<imbrandon> heh
<Madpilot> what was what all about?
<imbrandon> nvm
<Madpilot> Viper's little blurb about Slab?
<imbrandon> yea
<Madpilot> no idea, I'm not even sure what Slab is, tbh
<imbrandon> dont get me wrong i love slab personaly, but he seem'd over confident becouse it went to review ;)
<imbrandon> heh slab is a new gnome menu by suse
<Madpilot> ah
<imbrandon> that and i dont know the reson for the spec, heh , seems to just need to be packaged and pushed to universe , and promoted to main later
<imbrandon> anyhow thats -motu stuff, so hows #-art today ;)
<Madpilot> quiet
<Madpilot> with a chance of random driveby outbursts, it seems ;)
<troy_s> wow.
<troy_s> flurry of activity
<troy_s> kwwii you in?
<troy_s> probably sleeping if i had to bet
<klepas> moin
<klepas> and bye - be back in 145
<klepas> -4
<klepas> ;)
<troy_s> -4?
<troy_s> 15 mins?
<troy_s> lol
<klepas> yea, something like that
<troy_s> klepas
<troy_s> kwwii you back yet?
<troy_s> greetz weidel
<Madpilot> http://ubuntu-ca.org/logo/Ubuntu_Canada_small.gif
<troy_s> i would do what the official strap does
<troy_s> use only the official font for Ubuntu
<troy_s> as it doesn't line well
<troy_s> for everything else... use the version with serif (cant' remember name) for the canada portion
<troy_s> very nice maple leaf logo variation though
<Madpilot> thanks
<troy_s> or
<troy_s> optinally
<troy_s> now that i look at it.
<troy_s> it appears that the font was made monospaced
<Madpilot> the trouble with the actual Ubuntu logo is that that's an MS font they're using for the 'Linux For Human Beings' think
<troy_s> which is odd... perhaps slide the letters together manually.
<Madpilot> thing
<troy_s> i suspect they will look properly.
<troy_s> hrm...  really?
<Madpilot> pretty sure
<troy_s> try the non monospace typeset and see if that fixes the strangeness... it just looks very unpolished with that spacing...
<Madpilot> I think it's... gah, the stock MS sans-serif
<Madpilot> the wide spacing on 'Canada' is deliberate, to match - mostly - the spacing of "Ubuntu"
<troy_s> yes, i misspoke
<troy_s> the better font doesnt have serif
<troy_s> it has tail
<troy_s> no serif
<troy_s> Madpilot, accept that.
<troy_s> very quickie... but pretty sure that is the problem.
<troy_s> slightly better... and it avoids falling back on that other font
<Madpilot> looks cramped, to my eye
<troy_s> yah well i did it in three seconds:)
<troy_s> it will change the overall composition
<troy_s> i suspect in that res, you could add one pixel more of spacing
<troy_s> and enlarge overall
<troy_s> if you are with me...
<troy_s> you would need to compare to the ubuntu font spacing, and apply accordingly.
<Madpilot> besides, the basic layout of the Ubuntu.ca logo has already been accepted by the team, I'm just creating some website buttons for folks
<klepas> troy_s: back
<klepas> sorry, missed you
<troy_s> ah
<troy_s> tis ok
<klepas> what's up
<troy_s> well i can't remember but i had something to mention...
<troy_s> oh yes... the incoming dir needs some horrible sorting...
<troy_s> and bersace is still on vacation... but i do know you are busy with personal matters.
<klepas> i can have a look at it later if you like
<klepas> tomorrow maybe
<troy_s> sure... even renaming pages perhaps creating an EDGY incoming subdir or sorting out the glut into needs to be sorted or something
<troy_s> so that there is a little heirarchy within that dir
<klepas> troy_s: links?
<troy_s> ?
<troy_s> wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming :)
<klepas> troy_s: seen this: http://content.ytmnd.com/content/8/4/e/84e062a38724282ec1cf20256fa65a9d.gif
<klepas> ;)
<troy_s> indeed.
<klepas> quite gold, methinks
<Tujo> hi
<Tujo> may i make a question about desklets?
<troy_s> klepas, if you do any wiki cleanup, try to keep /Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals in tact as I am using them as referral links.
<kwwii> hi all
<kwwii> can't stay long, but I thought I would bring up one subject:
<kwwii> we can now rename spec pages in launchpad, so I want to move things around as mark asked
<kwwii> the question is this: how do we tie the individual specs into one spec which shows where we stand on all others?
<kwwii> the problem being that when all the singular specs are done, the meta-spec would be finished as well and there are no stages in between
<kwwii> ok...time for this later
<Viper550> Tropic is getting closer to completion
<mhb> hello everyone
<Viper550> Did anyone here work on the Tangerine Icons? Specifically the folders?
<andreasn> Viper550: yes
<andreasn> Viper550: I do
<Viper550> What changes did you do? I'm trying to for my Tropic theme, remake the Industrial folders (SUSE 10.1 style) into something Tangerine like
<andreasn> interesting
<Viper550> They have a simliar Tango style, but Industrial are front on
<andreasn> sounds cool
<Viper550> Hello, I have to make a very important decision and I need your help and/or comments
<Viper550> anyone?
* jenda is here, but /me isn't important :)
<Viper550> what icons should I use for Tropic? Human or Tangerine?
<andreasn> Viper550: well, Tangerine is more complete
<Viper550> But for some reason, Human kinda looks a bit better
<andreasn> I can modify Tangerine to look better if you want
<Viper550> like what?
<andreasn> well, whatever, as long as it makes sense
<andreasn> I also suggest you take a look at gnome-icon-theme in cvs, quite nice
<andreasn> and it follows the tango-style guidelines as well
<Viper550> Here's what I'd like: Firstly, the icon style from Jimmac's Tango styled theme "Industrial" for SUSE Linux 10.1 for Folders, with the Tangerine look
<andreasn> I can probably fix you those folders
<andreasn> quite easy to do
<Viper550> And for the computer, I would like it to be a modification of the Human computer icon, but with a 4:3 display, and a Silver screen
<andreasn> sounds doable
<andreasn> make a list and send it to nisses dot mail at home dot se
<Viper550> sent
<andreasn> great
<andreasn> need to grab some food now
<andreasn> later!
<Viper550> Like the splash screens I made?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-16
<Viper550> Hello again everyone!
<kwwii> nice splash screens :-)
<Viper550> Thanks
<troy_s> who lives?
<troy_s> kwwii?
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<Viper550> HEllo everyone
<mhb> good evening
<Viper550> Hello andreasn
<andreasn> hi there Viper550
<Viper550> How are the icons coming along?
<Viper550> you still here?
<andreasn> yeah, sorry
<andreasn> was fixing some stuff in the kitchen
<andreasn> I just came home, have been away all day
<andreasn> I currently have some more urgent stuff to do
<andreasn> but I'll get on the icons next week
<andreasn> hope that's ok
<Viper550> thanks,
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-07-09
<lapo> hi
<nysosym> hi lapo
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-07-10
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-07-11
<gouki> Hi all. I was wondering if there is someone interested in helping us out with a few changes to a Drupal theme for UbuntuBackstage.org?
<lapo> hi
<lapo> re
<sy135> hey all
<sy135> gibt es empfehlungen fr corelDraw umsteiger?
<kwwii> inkscape
<sy135> okay *g*
<sy135> und wech isser
<kwwii> nee
<sy135> sind hier immer so wenig?
<kwwii> ich bin noch da
<sy135> ah da isser ja
<sy135> was hlst du von ubuntustudio?
<kwwii> n'ja...wir reden normaleweise kein Deutsch hier :-)
<sy135> ach deshalb *g*
<sy135> egal *g*
<kwwii> habe ich nie so richtig gesehen
<sy135> weiter
<sy135> also hast du "nur" ubuntu drauf?
<kwwii> neee, ich mache alles
<sy135> alles?
<kwwii> alle varianten
<kwwii> k,x,edu,ubuntu
<sy135> was heisst du machsT?
<sy135> Du machst Artwork?
<kwwii> yupp
<sy135> ah verstehe
<sy135> ich bin eigentlich ein Win umsteiger
<kwwii> ich arbeite fr canonical
<sy135> habe aber schon seit anfang diesen jahres nur noch ubuntu drauf
<sy135> ne zeitlang kanotiux
<sy135> kanotiyx
<sy135> kanotix
<kwwii> hehe, cool
<sy135> ich brauche meinen pc fr internet email office und vor allem photobearbeitung und grafik
<sy135> ach canonical ist iniziator von ubuntu oder?
<kwwii> inkscape ist gut fr vektor sachen, xara extreme war auch nicht schlecht aber ich weiss nicht wie viel noch dran gearbeitet wird
<kwwii> genau
<sy135> naja von xara bin ich bissle enttuscht
<sy135> inkscape ist oka
<sy135> y
<sy135> gimp ist super natrlich
<kwwii> es fehlt aber vieles und manchen funktionen sind einfach kaputt
<sy135> Du muss kurz wech
<sy135> ja es gibt halt auch nichtmal kommerziell viel :-(
<kwwii> stimmt
<sy135> who's here
<sy135> ?
<nysosym> here
<darkmatter> not me.. this is just a holographic projection
<sy135> any sugestions for graphic software?
<sy135> any suggestions for graphic software?
<sy135> tips?
<troy_s> sy135: What is your background?
<sy135> corelDraw, Illustrator freehand, photoshop
<sy135> gimp is okay!
<troy_s> sy135: No I mean artistically
<sy135> not much background
<sy135> i need software to view and clean photos of my DSLR
<sy135> and to draw graphics
<sy135> i used photosohop elements and corel draw before
<troy_s> sy135: To view photos, you have a pretty wide selection of tools... if you are looking for 16 bits per channel colour, cinepaint is probably the only reliable body in that regard.
<sy135> cinepaint?
<sy135> commercial?
<troy_s> sy135: If you don't fuss about that, you can use just about any viewer for 8 bit viewing.
<troy_s> sy135: no.
<troy_s> sy135: Cinepaint is the only app that is capable of 16bits per channel currently -- the rest do a downres to 8bits per channel.
<sy135> ok i see, what's the difference to gimp?
<sy135> its gimp based, isn't it?
<troy_s> sy135: I just told you.
<troy_s> it was.
<sy135> okay
<nysosym> troy_s: but no monitor can use 16Bit colors ;)
<sy135> i heard that gimp couldnt handle cmyk models?
<troy_s> sy135: To be honest, there is probably zero people in the FS world who need 16 bits per channel.
<sy135> sure
<sy135> *g*
<sy135> 16bits per 3 channels perhaps
<sy135> *g*
<troy_s> sy135: cmyk isn't an end all.  Work it out with your printer.  I wouldn't professionally get ANYTHING printed without proofs and such, and I certainly wouldn't rely on a colour profile.
<troy_s> 16 bits per channel
<troy_s> where a channel is R/G/B
<troy_s> sy135: Most of the other apps will deliver CMYK, but again, without a reliable proofing cycle CMYK is relatively useless too.
<troy_s> sy135: In the end, you simply need to test run and tweak.
<andreasn> krita should work pretty well with cmyk and 32bit if I recall correctly
<sy135> okay thanks troy_s, andreasn and nysosym
<sy135> and what's abot vector graphics? only inkscpae and xara?
<troy_s> yes
<nysosym> inkscape or xara, try it, but xara free has a horrible svg support
<andreasn> inkscape works very well, I don't know what happened to the xara development of late
<sy135> xara is buggy i think
<sy135> but corel is the best i think
<sy135> but there is no version to ubuntu :-)
<sy135> :-(
<troy_s> xara isn't free either and dev has ceased.
<nysosym> the best is illustrator :D
<troy_s> inkscape can do whatever you want it to.
<nysosym> illustrator has a much faster render engine and some other cool stuff (CS3)
<sy135> but illustrator is not for linux
<troy_s> who the fuck cares
<troy_s> find someone who can use it.
<sy135> any other ideas?
<troy_s> sy135: Inkscape works great... you can do some quite detailed work with it.
<troy_s> http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/troy.sobotka/ImageDump/photo#5068722476331584498
<troy_s> or traditional linework styled illustration
<troy_s> http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/troy.sobotka/ImageDump/photo#5068723588728114178
<troy_s> blah
<troy_s> there will be far better examples as I am a complete and utter hack, but you get the idea.
<nysosym> troy_s: sure, everything is possible, but in illustrator in a much easier way, against inkscape
<troy_s> nysosym: I disagree... I have used both.  Inkscape is top shelf in many regards.
<troy_s> nysosym: It is merely preference.
<troy_s> nysosym: And the willingness to learn I suppose.
<sy135> perhaps if anyone who uses these software (ps, illustrtor, etc) ilegally!
<nysosym> don't get me wrong, i like inkscape a lot (a good OSX port would be nice), but in my experience i have a good results in a faster way with illustrator
<sy135> :-)
<troy_s> Whatever.  Use it then.  Yay.
<nysosym> sy135: no legal, student discount :D
<sy135> i know many people who uses ilegal software and say shit fucking linux and so on
<sy135> but if they have to buy for this software they would think in an other way
<sy135> i used a student copy of coreldraw x3
<nysosym> fully agreed
<sy135> but its not compatibel with wine or so
<sy135> and i dont want to use win anymore
<troy_s> sy135: In the end, most of the bitcher and complainer types aren't worth the skin that they reside in, so don't worry about them.  There is also a lot more to the picture than simply wanting to use a 'tool'.  Historically, great art has always had a political side dish.
<sy135> win is a gamers os
<sy135> troy_s: agree!
<troy_s> sy135: But again, that is only something you would learn through a longer term degree and a good study of contextual art.
<troy_s> sy135: 'our' world is ripe for an artistic movement.  It is perhaps a matter of time.
<sy135> matter of time! i hope it will be not a longterm
<troy_s> andreasn and the boys of Tango are already creating a little revolution of their own with that project, so perhaps more lofty ideals aren't far behind.
<sy135> any other software suggestions?
<nysosym> troy_s: btw. which digital camera do you use to make your photos?
<andreasn> "The Boys of Tango" :)
<andreasn> better than "Monkeys on crack" I guess :)
<nysosym> sounds like a Song ^^
<troy_s> nysosym: I have legacy glass so I have a body that works with them.
<andreasn> it sound like a barbershop band or something
<troy_s> lol
<andreasn> not a bad idea in itself perhaps ;)
<troy_s> andreasn: Yeah you just need Don Henley to write you a song.
<andreasn> totally
<sy135> nysosym:  an ixus V *g*
<sy135> no that's just my fun cam
<sy135> it's a canon Digital EOS
<troy_s> nysosym: I have long used Pentax bodies (thanks to the most consistent mount), so I evolved to the Pentax digital.  I am considering a 1:1 though, which means probably depressingly stepping into Canon's ugly realm.
<sy135> what does realm mean?
<troy_s> sy135: "world" in a loose sort of way.
<troy_s> sy135: Canon has a relatively decent 1:1 body.
<sy135> okay i understand
<sy135> i'm a newbie in SLR photographis, but i will learn
<sy135> you now a software like picasa on unix?
<sy135> the picasa port over wine is buggy i thiink
<troy_s> sy135: Not understanding.  You want something to library your photos?
<troy_s> sy135: FSpot does a good job of that, and the K* folks have a few apps that migrate your photos to an online vendor such as Picassa / Flickr
<sy135> you don't know the picasa software?
<sy135> fspot i notice
<troy_s> sy135: I don't bother with software.  I simply figure out what I want and how to get there then choose the software that will do that -- sometimes it is a few different pieces along the way.
<troy_s> sy135: Relying on one piece of software for everything is a little suboptimal for me.  Various bits do various details well.  For example, I would die without imagemagick.
<nysosym> troy_s: ahh ok thx, i will start in dslr and i can't decide which company i should use "for life", canon or pentax, on the canon side is the really good eos400d and by pentax k10d. I really difficult decide...
<troy_s> nysosym: If you care about things like DoF and such
<troy_s> nysosym: Then you are going to want to migrate to a nice 1:1 or medium format camera... if the latter, you are pretty much trapped in HB land.
<troy_s> nysosym: as with their history, they are pushing medium format into the digital era.
<troy_s> http://www.hasselblad.com/
<nysosym> ohh yeah 1:1 is very very nice, but a matter of money ;)
<troy_s> nysosym: On practical terms, the contemporary 'viewer' generally will see depth cues associated with standard 35mm limitations -- hence the drive towards a 1:1
<sy135> nysosym: i've got the 400d! im really satisfied!
<troy_s> nysosym: When you start looking at the DoF, digital really shows its limitations.
<sy135> 1:1 means fullformat-chip?
<troy_s> nysosym: And the uber-wide zone -- the lenses just don't go into pleasant wide mode.
<nysosym> yes
<troy_s> sy135: Yes.  standard 35mm aspect ratio.
<sy135> sorry i'm german
<troy_s> sy135: It only matters because the nature of optics dictate that your depth of field will not be the same for a given frame size.
<troy_s> sy135: So even with an equivalent say, 100mm lens in digital land, your circles of confusion will be smaller and therefore you will have a greater depth of field in a sub 35mm format chip.
<sy135> for sure
<nysosym> sure 1:1 is a option for the future, but at moment is a 1:1 camera in a priceless area
<troy_s> nysosym: Actually, the Canon body is very affordable.
<nysosym> Eos 5D ?
<sy135> nysosym: photographing is not just a work of your camera, think of it!
<nysosym> my limit is 1000 incl. optic
<sy135> you can make good photos with your mobilephone at all!
<troy_s> sy135: Well part of it is... you can't exactly do a rear net or bellows without an slr :)
<troy_s> nysosym: Let me do a quick bit of research before I head out... hold on.
<nysosym> sy135: sure, but my compact camera has many limitations and i will have all options, these would be possible with a dslr camera with changeable optics
<troy_s> nysosym: I think there is a model coming out soon with 1:1 and more consumer priced... IIRC the 5D is the entry level 1:1
<troy_s> remember though, when Kodak released the first digital 1:1 camera aeons ago, it was 25 grand :)
<troy_s> give it about 6 months and the proliferation of 1:1s should be further along.
<nysosym> ok, i will wait :)
<nysosym> in these time, i will use my old slr :)
<troy_s> nysosym: I would.  I am pretty sure I remember reading about Canon releasing another 1:1 and the other vendors will have 1:1s in that range soon.
<troy_s> nysosym: Yeah, or pick up a cheap dSLR body -- they are quite inexpensive these days.
<troy_s> nysosym: Especially if you just pick up the body.
<troy_s> nysosym: Hell... one of the most successful and prolific music video directors / illustrator / photographer of all time used broken lenses to define his style.
<nysosym> troy_s: i need new optics and a new body, my old optics are very used :D
<troy_s> nysosym: With literal cracks in the lens.
<troy_s> nysosym: Old optics are great!  Experiment with them if you don't care about them any more.
<nysosym> troy_s: what is the name of these man?
<troy_s> http://www.tlchicken.com/view_story.php?ARTid=3345
<nysosym> these pictures are made with broken optics?
<troy_s> nysosym:  Won elsies and numerous other awards.  Illustrator, artist, photographer, director...
<troy_s> nysosym: Most of his award winning videos were shot with broken lenses
<troy_s> nysosym: The cleft in the lens -- a deep crack or something -- leaves a strange 'blur' in the area that moves to pure sharpness...
<troy_s> let me see if i can find you a sample
<troy_s> (utube flash)
<troy_s> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=380J5LTvokw
<troy_s> arguably one of the greatest bits of video photography.  won many many awards.
<troy_s> another stunning bit of work from mahurin
<troy_s> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrDQyNwVOQg
<nysosym> ohh Metallica i love it :D
<troy_s> i hate metallica, but that video is absolutely amazing.
<troy_s> beautiful photography
<troy_s> there is one more that might interest you
<troy_s> an upandcomer
<troy_s> http://www.claudiomiranda.com/perfectmov.html
<troy_s> claudio miranda
<troy_s> _stunning_ photography in that work .
<troy_s> very matt mahurin influenced too as you can see.
<nysosym> troy_s: i can see a little bit of math in your photos on picasa web ;)
<troy_s> nysosym: some of my music video photography is up on my blog
<troy_s> nysosym: not terrific stuff in there as generally artists and fecking heads of companies such as Universal get involved... which is why i have so much respect for photography that ends up as amazing as mahurin's or miranda's work.
<sy135> cool links
<sy135> i've bookmarked them
<sy135> thanks for helping me
<sy135> will be back soon!
<sy135> have a good time!
<nysosym> yes, have also a good time ;)
<nysosym> troy_s: where are your blog?
<nysosym> this one?
<nysosym> http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-07-12
<lapo> hi
<agentk> hello
<agentk> I created an poste desing for a competition
<agentk> Can someone check it and give me the permission for submiting it?
<agentk> s/poste/poster
<kwwii> for which competition?
<kwwii> and where do you want to submit it?
<agentk> 8th @rc
<agentk> this is a Hungarian competition
<kwwii> is it for the hungarian ubuntu users group or such?
<agentk> no it is a general stuf
<agentk> you can read more here:
<agentk> http://www.arcmagazin.hu/index.php?module=article&category=3328,14416&news_id=1842
<agentk> May I send it to someon to review it?
<kwwii> not sure why you would ask on this list for permission to submit something to a contest which has nothing to do with ubuntu, really
<kwwii> are you looking for someone to give you ideas and criticism?
<agentk> Because I created a series of posters about free softwares
<agentk> first is for general purpose
<agentk> second is about Openoffice.org
<agentk> the third is about Ubuntu
<agentk> also you can give me ideas or critism
<agentk> :)
<agentk> I wanted to put it on artwork maillist, so I have subscribed then sent a letter, but it is waitinf for approval
<kwwii> probably because the attachement was too big for the list
<kwwii> what format are they in?
<agentk> In my opinion I have to ask permission if I want to use someones trademark, logo, etc.
<agentk> I sent two Jpg files
<agentk> under 200 k in sum
<kwwii> well, you can send them to me if you like...I can tell you whether or not the logo usage is ok as I work for the company
<agentk> Ok I know this might be big for a maillist
<agentk> ok kwwii
<kwwii> kwwii at ubuntu dot com
<agentk> thx
<kwwii> np
<agentk> ok
<agentk> I sent it to you
<agentk> I didn't rewrite the letter - but I think it should not be a problem :o)
<agentk> ;o)
<kwwii> cool, thanks
<kwwii> the logo usage looks fine - we have no problem with using it as such as long as that is not used in a commercial way
<agentk> can you send you opinion in more formal way via mail?
<agentk> I'll not us it on commercial wal
<agentk> it is a competition
<agentk> so I'll not sell this stuff
<agentk> ;o)
<kwwii> great, I'll send a mail in a bit
<agentk> okay
<agentk> thank you
<kwwii> no problem, glad to help
<agentk> :o)
<sy135> hi all
<sy135> hi kw
<sy135> kwwii:
<kwwii> hi sy135
<agentk> kwwii: When can you send that permission by e-mail?
<kwwii> sent :-)
<agentk> okay
<agentk> kwwii: :o)
<agentk> I get it but it isn't differ at all :o)
<agentk> I will enclose it :o)
<agentk> hello!
<agentk> re
<darkmatter> *yawns*
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-07-13
<terlmann> has anyone started on a gutsy plan yet ?
<kwwii> terlmann: several people have talked about including their own community theme in gutsy if that is what you mean
<terlmann> no. But in edgy we had a plan
<terlmann> to make a new theme
<terlmann> is there a team working on a theme for gutsy yet?
<kwwii> no, things have changed since then
<kwwii> did you do any work on the edgy artwork?
<terlmann> I think it was better back then
<terlmann> no
<kwwii> hehe, so you thought it was better but you did not contribute and/or experience the situation at the time
<terlmann> I was 16 at that time
<kwwii> I hope that eventually we can get back to doing something more community based but at this time there is no plan to do gutsy as such
<terlmann> I looked around and things seemed organized. now no one cares about "cool".
<kwwii> if things seemed organized to you then, you did not follow the whole process all the way through
<kwwii> hopefully one day we can do something like that again but for now it is simply impossible
<kwwii> I would like to see people step up and help in any case
<kwwii> but for gutsy the process will not be the same as edgy
<terlmann> canonical should make a team for artwork and stick with it - we need to keep our art looking good. I recall some rules that were put out about how to lay out background elements in wallpapers and where not to put details, like in the corners.
<kwwii> well, those things still apply anyway...those are general artwork rules and have nothing to do with the specific release nor the process of creating artwork for it
<kwwii> canonical is a company which supports the creation of ubuntu and not the community itself
<terlmann> well there needs to be more such rules. like only svg files and no pngs.
<kwwii> so the community should step up and create some great artwork...that would help get the trust back
<kwwii> I am not positive that making a rule for desktop wallpapers to only use svg is a good idea
<kwwii> the dapper bg was great and it was pixmap based
<terlmann> well it results in far smaller files... and sometimes better art.
<kwwii> it just depends on what you are doing
<kwwii> oh, I love svg, trust me
<kwwii> almost everything I personally do is in svg
<kwwii> time for a smoke, brb
<terlmann> its an argument over the differences between files of bits and files of instructions...
<terlmann> instructions being smaller
<terlmann> lol , why not all just use .bmp .... hahahah
<lapo> hi
<lapo> re
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-07-15
<alefteris> hi all, is there any new artwork for gutsy that i can preview?
<troy_s> alefteris: Don't think there will be.
<alefteris> the slighly modified gdm theme in tribe 2 looks good by the way :)
<troy_s> its all kwwii
<troy_s> alefteris: What was the modification?
<alefteris> at the bottom menu instead of a solid color box, now there is just a gradient..
<troy_s> sounds underwhelming.
<alefteris> well, when there is nothing new for a while, event the slighest change gets noted
<troy_s> LOL
<troy_s> yeah its a state of pure tripe
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-07-07
<pwnguin> who is troy james sobotka?
<kwwii> re
<Salane> Hey
<Salane> Are you there kwwii?
<kwwii> Salane: hi
<Salane> Hey
<Salane> How are you?
<kwwii> Salane: good, tired a bit but doing ok so far :-) and you?
<Salane> I am very tired- been working in a very hot lab for the past 10 hours :(
<Salane> But ok everall :D
<Salane> So how do you think the wiki's have turned out?
<Salane> At least the font wiki.
<kwwii> hehe, while in college I worked part time in the evenings in a small chemical lab...I know the feeling
<Salane> Oh yeah- similar experience then.
<kwwii> I think that the wiki, especially the fonts stuff, has turned out great
<Salane> We need a better push for icons - and perhaps some better guidelines. People on the forum thought they were too restricting.
<kwwii> yes, people will tend to say that, but in the end, it is very restricting
<Salane> I have messed around with it, and I think the human icons would look so much better just with different colors and less glose.
<Salane> gloss*
<kwwii> any group of people working on artwork are going to find some things restricting, making one style and working forwards can be very hard at times
<kwwii> even more so when none of the actual artists have the final decision
<Salane> Yes - very understandable
<kwwii> I've worked with Mark for a couple of years now and I have a pretty good feeling of what he likes in the current artwork and what he does not
<kwwii> so as far as the folder goes I think he sees that as one of the cornerstones of the theme
<Salane> Did you read his interview?
<Salane> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=852363
<Salane> It really is - that is why it needs to be updated, but still retain the human look and feel.
<kwwii> nope, let me check that out
<kwwii> I think that the hard gloss line on the top could be played with a bit, perhaps as well as the general form
<kwwii> but I know that the subtle radial gradient starting at a yellowish tone and going to orange from the bottom of the folder is a must
<Salane> Do you know who created the originals
<kwwii> he really likes that effect
<kwwii> yes, an artist we paid at iconfactory
<Salane> I dont know about yellow- I think a good brown/orange looks amazing
<kwwii> yeah, I like brown too :-)
<Salane> I have a Panel image I created that kind of represents a good direction, IMO, for the color overall
<Salane> I will send it your email
<kwwii> in the end, I work directly under him so I have two opinions: my personal opinion and my proffesional opinion :-)
<kwwii> cool, I suggest that we keep up the discussion and hope that some artists bite
<kwwii> until now the lack of artists is what has prevented us from moving forward
<Salane> Ok so I think we are moving well with fonts - we need to really make a decision about what to do for icons.
<Salane> Yes
<Salane> Now I believe its the lack of time and programmers
<kwwii> the art team needs to show that they can handle a bigger project before they will be taken seriously, I think
<Salane> It isnt very cohesive.
<Salane> The art team.
<kwwii> hehe, you think?
<Salane> haha
<Salane> Have you taken a look at the panel i sent you?
<kwwii> just got it...I am not sure if it is possible to use semi-transparent pics without any bugs
<kwwii> but the general tone is nice
<kwwii> although you should know now that anyone who supports brown is going to get a lot of comments about feces and such
<Salane> Well I didnt mean to do that! I jsut noticed it was transparent. I can change that.
<Salane> Well it is slightly orange, and I can make it more orange...
<kwwii> _MMA_: ping? do you know if it is possible to use semi-transparent pngs in the panel?
<kwwii> ping about pngs
<Salane> It relaly comes down to what is wanted by Mark,and what the users want...
<kwwii> the funny thing about orange/brown/red is that they all overlap and the human sees them strangely
<Salane> Good point
<kwwii> overall it is a sucky color range to have to use homogenous colors
<Salane> Should we then procede with more orange, more brown, or a mix? Or something different?
<kwwii> I think that we should see what people want
<kwwii> I have a palette
<kwwii> which I guess I could finally put online
<kwwii> erm, if I haven't already
<Salane> I have seen it- but it has a wide range of colors.
<Salane> I remeber doing a poll one time on the forums
<Salane> it was very evenly split among the color choices
<Salane> Oh is this a new palette?
<kwwii> well, we started making a palette during hardy (which is on the wiki in incoming/Hardy or such)
<kwwii> and I actually finished it and it has been approved
<kwwii> so...I should move the hardyDesign page somewhere else
<Salane> Is it the one that was sent out over the email a few weeks ago?
<kwwii> rename it and revamp it
<kwwii> yeah, I think I sent it to the list
<kwwii> it would have been in the form of pdf, as well as installable palettes
<Salane> Yes I have it
<Salane> and used it to make this gradient
<Salane> its a brown gradient with a transparent orange layer on top
<Salane> but I think i made the gradient transparent too
<kwwii> the panel themeing will depend heavily on the gtk and metacity theme
<Salane> true- I jsut made it as a display of good colors. I think though that while the panels could look like that, that the metacity and gtk controls in the theme should be much lighter -
<kwwii> yes, we will use a light control and windeco theme in any case
<Salane> Good
<Salane> But I think we need to avoid grey at all costs.
<_MMA_> re: transparent panel. The "semi" part will get the color of the desktop behind it. So yes. Its possiable.
<kwwii> _MMA_: even with the system tray?
<_MMA_> Oh sorry. Lemmie check that, and one more thing out.
<kwwii> Salane: in the end, the colors are not totally grey...the have a slight amount of saturation
<Salane> I think though that since both Windows and OS X use it- and it doesnt really look that good- that we could at least do white or a very light mocha color.
<kwwii> yes, that was supposed to one part of using a dark theme, to break people's ideas that there is a given color for all themes
<kwwii> so from the dark theme it will be easy to switch to a lighter, more saturated theme I think
<_MMA_> kwwii: Yes. It works through the system tray. But this is setting the panel image through the panel properties. Let me see what happens when its done through the theme. (the only way this *should* be done.)
<kwwii> Salane: btw, I am pretty much always logged into irc on my server so if you register your nick you can /query or /msg me and i will get the message eventually
<Salane> I see- I am using a web site to use this.
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> meebo?
<Salane> Mibbiit
<_MMA_> Salane: Use Pidgin or xchat.
<Salane> Oh yeah I forgot pidgin could do it
<Salane> give me a second...
<kwwii> Salane: btw, that is an interesting name, where does it come from?
<kwwii> sounds french but I am not a french name expert
<Salane> I am not sure. I was named after my biological father. My grandmother on that side thought is was Alaskan American, but I have not been able to find a source.
<Salane> My middle name however, is French.
<Salane> How do I join this channel in Pidgen? I used to know how but I am lost :(
<kwwii> type /join #ubuntu-artwork
<_MMA_> kwwii: When a panel image is used through the theme, it takes on the UI color. Not the color (or transparency) I suspect someone would be after.
<kwwii> erm, not sure in pidgin
<Salan1> There you go.
<Salan1> I am now in Pidgen.
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, in any case it might make things hard when you want to change color and such
<kwwii> Salan1: cool :-)
<Salan1> What would make things hard?
<kwwii> if I changed to another color it would effect the brown/orange color
<_MMA_> Salan1: Type: /nick Salane
<kwwii> so you will always be playing a catch up game of what color you really want
<Salane> Thanks
<kwwii> and remember that the color for the panel is defined in the gtkrc and might be a mix of other colors
<Salane> I have seen themes with different panel colors than the Window color
<kwwii> sure, that is very normal and nothing wrong with that
<kwwii> but if a user sets a color themselves it will effect the panel as well
<Salane> Oh true.
<kwwii> in a way that they cannot control
<_MMA_> kwwii: Well, what it means is when you set the panel "in-theme", the part you would want transparent takes on the UI color. Where-as setting it through the panel properties actually lets the image be transparent and fades into the desktop.
<Salane> Well the panel doesnt have to be transparent.
<_MMA_> But the latter sets the panel image no matter what theme the user chooses.
<kwwii> _MMA_: I am talking about when you set a theme and then change the colors
<Salane> Ok
<kwwii> I have nothing against the panel being transparent, really, I just want to reduce the amount of error when a user selects colors
<Salane> I understand now./
<kwwii> then again, maybe I am wrong :p
<Salane> Well perhaps the theme will look so good, no one will want to! :D
<kwwii> sure, but I wonder if _MMA_ agrees with me :/
<kwwii> lol, yeah, we can all hope that the forum sings praises of us
<_MMA_> kwwii: No. Your still missing what I said. :P The color picker does switch the colors behind the panel image though.
<_MMA_> Salane: It's not about pleasing users. Its about wowing Mark. ;)
<Salane> Well that is doable. I made a friend on deviant art who is amazing at Gnome themes. he can do things I only dreamed of before.
<Salane> I will invite him to join the artwork team.
<Salane> Well lets go back to icons.
<kwwii> hehe, he pays me to take care of that
<Salane> We need to make some decisions.
<kwwii> erm, mark I meant
<Salane> kwwii: Nice
<kwwii> that and a thousand other things
<kwwii> we should also look into harnessing the deviantart crowd
<kwwii> there is a brainstorm thingy for that
<Salane> True
<Salane> there area lot of good themes out there
<kwwii> sure, they just have to say "ubuntu" to the right person :-)
<_MMA_> kwwii: And nothing has stopped anyone from grabbing them. People like to talk and not do.
<Salane> Well lets develop a course of action.
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, but the color you pick would show through the transparency in a different way than you expect
<Salane> I think our font will be taken care of one way or the other.
<kwwii> I think that keeping up the work on the wiki and mailing list is the best idea
<kwwii> get people moving on this stuff and keep them going down the same path
<Salane> Well we need more of a push
<Salane> yeah
<kwwii> also, we could do more with pusing the theme-team stuff
<Salane> I jsut convinced the bass player in my band to try out Ubuntu :D
<_MMA_> Salane: Push from who?
<Salane> A push from us to the art team, the users, and other Gnome users.
<kwwii> more a push from us and other interested artists than anything else
<Salane> We need to basically get the word out.
<kwwii> and we need to keep up the interest and contact
<_MMA_> Salane: Being new here, I guess you dont realize, there's not much of a team here. Most of the people that are active have *much* to do. ;) We need new blood to make that push. Is that you?
<Salane> I have time to push. Very soon I will have no classes, very little work, and a lot of time.
<kwwii> hehe, done with college or just summer break?
<Salane> I am very good with coordinating people. In high school I put together an presentation that I took to local businesses and sold the advertisements  - and raised over 15,000 Euros in the process.
<Salane> I am taking Engineering Calc 2 during the summer.
<_MMA_> Salane: I hope you are good at herding cats. :)
<Salane> Haha
<Salane> I love my cat- he is Orange and White. Reminds me of Ubuntu when I see him :D
<kwwii> hehe, Engineering Calc2 - been there, done that :-)
<kwwii> I studied civil engineering
<Salane> Aerospace here!
<kwwii> cool :-)
<kwwii> which year are you in?
<Salane> I will be a sophomore - second year
<kwwii> sophomore I would guess
<kwwii> hehe, yeah
<kwwii> otherwise you would be really smart or really dumb :-)
<Salane> haha
<Salane> I made a 98% on the midterm. I think I have it good :D
<kwwii> then again, when I first started college I studied chinese and flunked college algebra 5 times
<Salane> Haha wow
<kwwii> on a music scholarship
<_MMA_> I want to say, re: font chat that we not disregard what Troy said for the sake of some people saying "this looks pretty". <insert font here> needs to be viewed vs. what we have at all levels.
<Salane> Well then I feel inclined to admit that this is the second time taking this class.
<Salane> lol
<kwwii> _MMA_: yes, definitely, in any case it needs to be checked by someone who knows more about internationalization
<Salane> I think any of the three fonts on the wiki will be great choices. I am not opposed to any of them.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Not just that. Troy had *damn* good points on kerning and such as well.
<Salane> I think he is right. It does look a bit better.
<Salane> Its so close it would depend from computer to computer however.
<_MMA_> Salane: But good choices why? Aesthetics are not enough.
<Salane> Well with me, the more readable a font is, the better it looks.
<Salane> That and it must be fully international.
<_MMA_> Salane: "He" who? Troy thought it was a terrible choice.
<_MMA_> http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-droid-isnt-answer.html
<kwwii> getting a good font is really hard
<Salane> Sorry I thought you were referring to something else.
<kwwii> it takes a lot more than you'd think
<_MMA_> Yep. More than "I like this.".
<Salane> i was talking about the guy who pointed out how Deja Vu might be a little better with the same hinting settings.
<kwwii> oh man, troy goes off again
<_MMA_> Salane: Yes. Studio has switched to them and I believe others use them as well.
<kwwii> the first thing he does is bitch about ubuntu artwork and then goes on to complian about the font that we probably won't be able to use due to legal issues
<Salane> haha
<_MMA_> kwwii: What else is new? :P *But* it might be a good choice for mobile.
<Salane> I cant believe something I pushed for is on a blog. lol
<_MMA_> Salane: It's not hard trust me.
<Salane> Why this guy is
<Salane> I dont knwo what to say
<Salane> I have been using Droid and the other choice for a bit now
<Salane> and I actually changed my fonts in other OS's because I liked them so much./
<_MMA_> Like I said, there are other considerations.
<kwwii> heck, in the screenshots he shows I still think that the droid font is more readable, whether the over-all color is the same or not
<kwwii> anyway
<kwwii> there are other considerations
<Salane> I think so too.
<_MMA_> :P
<Salane> So what are the considerations?
<kwwii> and droid is made for a small screen
<kwwii> and I do have a small screen :-)
<kwwii> and a really big one that is normally hooked up to my mac these days :p
<Salane> Aesthetics, readability, and international compliance right?
<_MMA_> kwwii: I agree more with changing the pt size than font really.
<kwwii> if nothing else we will keep dejavu as it has proven to be very good
<kwwii> _MMA_: from 10 to 9 you mean?
<_MMA_> Yeah
<kwwii> yes, me too
<kwwii> I use 8 myself
<kwwii> on my 10" thinkpad
<_MMA_> I as well on the laptop.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-07-08
<kwwii> been testing 10 and 9 and 9 seems to be realistic
<_MMA_> Studio dropped things to 9. I kept that on the desktop.
<kwwii> we could also ask others on the page
<Salane> Well I think whatever font we choose, that changing the settings is a must.
<kwwii> wiki page I mean
<Salane> Do it!
<Salane> Thats is whats it is for
<kwwii> but that might only draw people who want to comment on that wiki page
<_MMA_> kwwii: Are we using dejavu now?
<kwwii> so it is not really a good example of what a normal user expects
<_MMA_> Ubuntu I mean.
<kwwii> _MMA_: yes, we are using dejavu condensed
<Salane> but it has horrible settings
<_MMA_> Use "book".
<kwwii> which was my choice when I started :-)
<_MMA_> kwwii: I think "book" is closer to the norm "sans" and such.
<_MMA_> kwwii: I would just have one of the guys drop the default size and push that through.
<_MMA_> Seb or someone.
<Salane> _MMA_ : would you post an example?
<Salane> Well that and give it subpixel smoothing and slight hinting
<_MMA_> Salane: No. I talk here. I have enough on my plate. ;) Sorry.
<kwwii> _MMA_: yes, but on your desktop you really want a condensed font
<kwwii> to save space
<kwwii> MS has tahoma for that
<Salane> Err Segoe UI on Vista.
<kwwii> but the dejavu condensed fonts look like crap
<kwwii> yeah, segoe, right
<_MMA_> Salane: There were some legal concerns as the types of font hinting. Debian even goes so far as to show a box about this when you turn on full. Default might be pushing it if thats not sorted.
<_MMA_> Something owned by Apple IIRC.
<kwwii> it was a big deal a few months ago
<kwwii> apparently things have changed though
<kwwii> from what I have heard
<_MMA_> Cool. Try to dig up a link if you can.
<Salane> So what should happen I think is we should research a little more, about usablity and licensing. Then decide the week before the next CC when Mark wants us to present our decisions.
<_MMA_> Salane: I lok forward to your findings. :)
<_MMA_> *look
<kwwii> Salane: the CC is not the only way to work things out
<Salane> Mark requested we present them.
<_MMA_> Its actually not proper.
<_MMA_> Present them sure. But not at a CC meeting.
<Salane> ehh that is what he requested.
<kwwii> right, that seems like a bit of overkill to me
<_MMA_> Salane: Log saying her wants them presented at a CC meeting?
<_MMA_> *he
<kwwii> I would guess that part of the reason he requested it is because you brought up the subject at a CC meeting
<kwwii> he tried to take CC meetings very seriously (understandably)
<Salane> Well I wasnt familiar with the process. It isnt very clear - I just feel inspired to help.
<Salane> I thought it was a good opportunity.
<kwwii> and he has told me to discuss this with you to see where we can get ahead
<Salane> Ok
<kwwii> I have full authority to change whatever I want :-)
<Salane> Ok
<kwwii> and enough experience not go at it willy-nilly
<Salane> well lets give the fonts a while. We need to get moving on icons and themes.
<kwwii> I think that we could finish the fonts discussion and present the results once we know what is best without a problem
<Salane> I agree
<kwwii> as an example of icon themes, 3 years ago I started the oxygen icons
<Salane> You started them?
<Salane> Nice
<kwwii> it is not something you do within a couple of months
<kwwii> or with only 1 or 2 people
<Salane> I figured as such
<Salane> Oxygen is beautiful
<kwwii> I found jobs for 2 artists to work fulltime on oxygen for 2+ years
<kwwii> that was a lot of stress
<kwwii> good artists do not normally work for free
<Salane> Yeah
<savvas> they stick a sign "Will work for food" :p
<Salane> Well what do you think we should do?
<savvas> j/k :)
<kwwii> well, almost 1:30 am here...time for sleep
<kwwii> I think that we should keep moving forward...get people to work on things and respond
<kwwii> response only means no work gets done
<Salane> Ok this is what I will do. The theme wont be as bad as the icons... illl create some concepts to kick around.
<Salane> Talk to people who are good at creating themes.
<Salane> and get that started
<kwwii> 99.9% of the people on the art list want to offer their opinion of how things are and do little creative work
<kwwii> yepp
<Salane> I am learning Gtk as we speak
<Salane> so some day I can do stuff.
<kwwii> :-)
<Salane> As for icons, id like to hear more from you.
<Salane> Considering you have vast experience with it.
<kwwii> hehe, I worked doing all the suse artwork (and marketing material) for 7 years and 2 with canonical in the meantime
<kwwii> so I have some experience in linux themeing one might say
<Salane> Goodness
<Salane> I feel lameeeeeeee
<_MMA_> Why?
<kwwii> you can learn something every day
<Salane> Well here I am having used Linux for 2 years, and only doing GD work for 6 months or so
<Salane> but one thing is for sure- i know what looks good and what sells.
<_MMA_> Salane: The trick will be to not get frustrated with the system and figure out how to work with it. Find your place and listen to the old heads.
<Salane> I will do so.
<kwwii> exactly
<Salane> After all, mark said over the next 2 years he wants this to improve.
<_MMA_> Mark wants alot of things. :P
<Salane> haha
<_MMA_> Trick is finding what he wants without him telling us.
<Salane> Well il continue to crank our mockups.
<Salane> And coordinate and inspire people to help.
<Salane> Im worried about icons now!
<Salane> lol
<_MMA_> Mock-ups count for not if their not technically possible. There are *great* mocks on the wiki that will never exist.
<kwwii> I want a million dollars but just because I want it and think that it would be right does not mean that I will get it
<kwwii> mockups are the easy part
<kwwii> doing something is the hard part
<kwwii> for anyone
<Salane> I know. But if I can get some people to help -
<kwwii> then it would definitely be good
<_MMA_> Salane: Good luck to you. Not to be a pessimist and all. ;)
<Salane> Its just decisions need to be made. Nothing will get done if no one makes decisions and stick with them. They need to be realistic yet push forward!
<_MMA_> ï»¿Salane: Many including Ken have tried. Things go great for a bit then people drop off. Happens every time.
<kwwii> decisions need to be made very carefuly or you push people away
<kwwii> then again, sometimes certain people need to be pushed away
<Salane> :D
<kwwii> at least if they only talk
<_MMA_> Salane: Problem has been, the decision maker has been Mark and he hasn't been great at communicating what he wants. Maybe that will change.
<Salane> At thats what a lot of people do.
<kwwii> honestly, 99% of what we get is commentary
<_MMA_> *99.9999%
<Salane> haha
<kwwii> a good artist comes along, presents his/her stuff and then mark says "can you change this part of it?" a couple of times and they simply get sick of it
<Salane> Well how about we retire for the evening/night/morning, think about things.
<kwwii> free, open source artwork is worth more than people know
<Salane> With fonts, we need to do more research.
<kwwii> yeah, time for sleep here
<kwwii> definitely
<_MMA_> bye
<Salane> With icons - I am lost.
<Salane> And with a theme
<kwwii> have you talked to the people mark suggested yet?
<Salane> I have no contact info.
<kwwii> I can get that to you
<Salane> with a theme- il lfind the right people.
<Salane> That would be great
<kwwii> right, let's keep in touch
<kwwii> have a nice evening, it's morning here already :-)
<kwwii> see you soon, I hope
<Salane> Sorry!
<Salane> Good day/morning/night... etc etc...
<Salane> Ill get to working on what I can.
<pwnguin> is there something better than fontforge to use for improving fonts?
<_MMA_> pwnguin: Not that I know of.
<psyke83> hey
<kwwii> psyke83: btw, the latest updates should be in by now
<psyke83> kwwii, I noticed, thanks :)
<psyke83> kwwii, any news developments/ideas on NewHuman?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-07-09
<Salane> Anyone here?
<MadsRH> ï»¿In witch folder can I find the system sounds???
<darkmatter> /usr/share/sounds
<MadsRH> thanks
<MadsRH> Does anyone know if Gcursor works under Hardy? I can't get any response from the app!
<MadsRH> Nothing happens when I click the "Install theme" button
<jollyr0ger_> hi to all you!
<jollyr0ger_> I want to contribuite to improve the newhuman theme
<jollyr0ger_> I've found some issues
<jollyr0ger_> and I want to show you what they are
<jollyr0ger_> there's somebody witch want to know these issues?
<jollyr0ger_> oiii
<kwwii> jollyr0ger_: sure, shoot
<jollyr0ger_> oh great
<jollyr0ger_> first, just a simply clarification
<kwwii> did you look at the wiki page with known problems?
<jollyr0ger_> I've adjusted the newhuman them to be less brown but more gray
<kwwii> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/NewHumanTesting
<jollyr0ger_> yes
<jollyr0ger_> i've shotted other issues
<jollyr0ger_> found on my everyday use
<jollyr0ger_> I can send you an archive with them?
<kwwii> you can add them directly to that page :-)
<kwwii> or we discuss it now
<kwwii> how many issues are we talking about?
<kwwii> and what type of issues?
<jollyr0ger_> I've found 7 issues
<jollyr0ger_> them are like phrases that are hard to read 'cause are in the wrong color
<jollyr0ger_> or are some icon that have a wrong contrast
<kwwii> the best thing would be to add them to that wiki page so that they don't get lost
<jollyr0ger_> ok, I move to add them now
<jollyr0ger_> after I'll signal them to you again
<jollyr0ger_> and we can discuss about them
<kwwii> cool
<kwwii> thanks
<jollyr0ger_> I've wrote the issues that I've found on the wiki
<jollyr0ger_> if you go to read them
<jollyr0ger_> we can discuss about
<jollyr0ger_> ok=
<jollyr0ger_> ok?
<jollyr0ger_> look up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/NewHumanTesting
<kwwii> I see your point in pretty much all of them
<kwwii> gedit was mentioned already (we'll use a normal light bg instead)
<kwwii> your version of the theme seems a bit darker than the original, that makes the icon contrast problems worse
<kwwii> the blue link color is also a known issue with several apps
<kwwii> all in all, good work :-)
<jollyr0ger_> thanks
<jollyr0ger_> there are other way to contribute to improve the theme?
<kwwii> you can certainly suggest any fixes if you understand gtk
<kwwii> in the end I am pretty sure that we will have to use a light colored theme but I want to get this dark one working as well as possible so that we can also include it
<jollyr0ger_> ok
<jollyr0ger_> i think it's great this dark them
<jollyr0ger_> theme
<jollyr0ger_> but I don't know if it can be used by everybody
<jollyr0ger_> because is not so easy to use for the perso who have visual problem
<jollyr0ger_> bu i've seen some mokup that are great
<jollyr0ger_> a question
<jollyr0ger_> talking about mokup seen on the net
<jollyr0ger_> about the new hardy, after intrepid, theme
<jollyr0ger_> some graphics have made great works building images
<jollyr0ger_> but is possible realize them?
<jollyr0ger_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Gimmie-Human
<jollyr0ger_> like this
<jollyr0ger_> or is not possible to realize them
<kwwii> anything is possible but doing that would be a lot of work
<kwwii> and as it changes the way the whole desktop works you would have to be sure to convince every gnome desktop developer out there :-)
<jollyr0ger_> I think that is too hard :d
<jollyr0ger_> do you know if the artwork team is working on intrepid to make more uniform the process of bootup a linux station?
<jollyr0ger_> I mean a graphics cover that mask
<jollyr0ger_> all the init process from the boot until the login window?
<jollyr0ger_> like os x
<kwwii> well, the usplash stuff is only the domain of the art team as far as ideas and artwork go, the functionality of it would need to come from a more technically based team
<jollyr0ger_> thanks to answer to all my questions. now I leave you. good work
<jollyr0ger_> ciao ciao
<kwwii> ciao
 * kwwii -> store
<pwnguin> is there any overlap between the artwork team and the font team?
<pwnguin> the ubuntu title font kinda sucks
<kooldude> hey
<kooldude> im fresh new at this so can someone give me a jumpstart
<kooldude> please!!!
<kooldude> i have icons
<kooldude> hello???
<psyke83> kwwii: take a look at the tabs in this screenshot - http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/twf-contrast.png
<psyke83> oh - and hi ;)
<kwwii> psyke83: hi
<kwwii> they are a bit lighter, or?
<kwwii> I was going to talk to you about that :-)
<kwwii> good thing that you brought it up!
<psyke83> nope, the contrast is increased
<kwwii> perhaps we should make the bg color to the unfocused tabs a bit lighter?
<psyke83> sure... I'm gonna mess with the theme a bit and see if anything can be improved
<psyke83> the key to the tabs is contrast, to see the dividing borders
<psyke83> I mean the "contrast" engine parameter
<kwwii> there was a screenshot on the wiki testing page which showed the tab problems
<Cimi> tabs should be redesigned in murrine
<kwwii> yes, the lines need to be apparent for the unfocused tabs but the text also somewhat readable
<Cimi> also the lightborderratio should be reduced for insensitive widgets
<Cimi> there's still a lot of work
<kwwii> in general the overall contrast of the unfocused tab bg seems too much to me
<kwwii> yepp
<psyke83> Cimi: yes I want to reduce the lightborder ratio, but don't know how to isolate the insensitive widgets
<Cimi> there isn't
<Cimi> just a change in the code can do it
<psyke83> kwwii, in that screenshot I set a high contrast just to show how to make the tabs more visibly distinct
<kwwii> psyke83: excellent, thanks
<kwwii> send me the code and I'll put it in
<kwwii> a patch is fine, if you want
<kwwii> however is easy for you
<psyke83> kwwii, do you want the global contrast increased? It makes the buttons more distinct from the background
<kwwii> psyke83: one thing that mark mentioned to me is that he really likes the look of the 3D elements in the theme, it might be nice to add a bit of contrast, yes
<kwwii> the things he wants to change are the progress bars and the scrollbars mainly
<kwwii> looking at human it is pretty clear that it has a unique style for those elements
<psyke83> kwwii, ok... well the separator items look awful with a higher contrast, I need to isolate them in the gtkrc. I've isolated the window seperators, but still have to change menu and toolbar ones
<kwwii> I think that he wants something unique like that for ubuntu
<kwwii> psyke83: also, I think that the 3D-ness of the menu highlight is somehow too much
<psyke83> kwwii, well there is a lot of flexibility in Cimi's new engine to change the gradient pattern, gimme a minute and I'll give an example
<kwwii> psyke83: cool, take all the time in the world
<psyke83> ok, I'll reduce that
<psyke83> kwwii: really rough, just to give an example: http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/Screenshot-TheWidgetFactory.png
<kwwii> psyke83: hrm, maybe with a slightly different highlight color that would work well
<psyke83> kwwii: I was just showing that the highlight can be changed, I gave it a rather extreme value
<kwwii> psyke83: how are you changing this? is it one variable or are you defining a gradient?
<psyke83> gradient_shades
<kwwii> right, I imagine something with less effect in the saturation would be better
<kwwii> although maybe just a tick darker would be enough
<kwwii> hard to say when it comes to the fine points
<kwwii> psyke83: funky question, what do you do all day? (ie for a living)
<psyke83> kwwii, looking for a short-term job right now
<psyke83> in a couple of months, I'll be heading (back) to Brazil to continue teaching
<kwwii> wow, brazil
<psyke83> ;)
<psyke83> try this combination: {1.20,1.05,1.20,1.02}
<psyke83> could use some tweaking, but it looks nice to me
<kwwii> I assumed from your name that you were Irish or such
<psyke83> I'm looking just at the buttons for now, other widgets can be different
<psyke83> I am Irish :)
<kwwii> what leads you to brazil then?
<kwwii> and what in the world are you teaching? and why in the heck are do you know so much about gtkrc's?
<kwwii> the questions never end :-)
<kwwii> sorry
<psyke83> I've got a Brazilian girlfriend there, heh. We've been alternating between Ireland and Brazil, it's my turn to go there
<kwwii> where does that combination go?
<psyke83> I was/will be teaching English in companies and in private classes
<psyke83> and... it has nothing to do with gtkrcs, heh
<psyke83> I got an urge to see how difficult theming could be, so I did some poking around... that's it
<kwwii> hehe, and I am an American in Germany (for 12 years) because of my wife (then girlfriend) ...who actually teaches english at a private company
<psyke83> nice, where in Germany?
<kwwii> Bamberg, which is in Oberfranken which is in Franken which is in Northern Bavaria
<psyke83> Bavaria is beautiful, I've been there before
<kwwii> look for the middle of Germany and a little to the south-east
<kwwii> I live directly on the Main river in a small village outside of Bamberg
<kwwii> quite nice
<kwwii> little crime and such compared to where I came from in America :-)
<psyke83> what state in America?
<kwwii> good place to raise my son
<kwwii> St. Louis, Missouri and Phoenix, Arizona...back and forth between my parents
<psyke83> nice... I've never been to the U.S. yet (funny that I'd see South America before North, heh)
<kwwii> probably better that way :-)
<kwwii> anyway, time for sleep here
<psyke83> ok, we'll talk later
<kwwii> cool, send me anything you think is worthy and we can test it out
<psyke83> sure thing
<kwwii> I'll be leaving on vacation on August 2 until the 23 so I won't have to have things nailed down until shortly before I leave
<kwwii> have you seen the testing page on the wiki?
<kwwii> pretty good response I think
<psyke83> yep, there's some good feedback there
<kwwii> in the end, we need to push some of this back upstream somehow
<kwwii> at least talk to the people responsible for the apps and ask them if they see some way to fix this stuff
<psyke83> yep, I'll see about filing some bugs soon
<kwwii> in the end the dark theme will not be default so it is not really our problem but getting this stuff fixed would really mean a lot to everyone I think
<psyke83> sure, and NewHuman can continue evolving as an alternate theme, I suppose
<psyke83> what will be default? Ubuntulooks again?
<kwwii> if you want to start filing bugs, I think it might be nice to look at things in a broader perspective and also try to open a discussion with some of the app-devs
<psyke83> sure
<kwwii> i really, really hope that we will use a version of murrine which has the small tweaks that mark wants
<kwwii> *wink* at Cimi on this one, we'll see what happens
<kwwii> alone, I cannot learn to write gtk engine code without giving up all the other things I do
<psyke83> you'll have to tell me another day what tweaks they are, I must have missed the chat
<kwwii> mark is generally not happy with the look of the progress bars, doesn't like the stripe and thinks they look to boring...the scrollbars also are too hard to find and miss the extra touch when you find them
<kwwii> ie, look at the ubuntulooks theme and think, how can we something very much like this, only different
<psyke83> alright
<kwwii> ...can we *do* something...
<kwwii> anyway, time for sleep
<kwwii> again and again I say that
<psyke83> heh
<kwwii> my mantra
<psyke83> nite nite
<kwwii> see you soon, I hope
<psyke83> sure, I'll be around
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-07-10
<pwnguin> can anyone else open the ubuntu-title font source in fontforge? I can't =(
<pwnguin> huh. did you know the circle of friends isn't symmetric?
 * pwnguin better double check that
<pwnguin> well thats annoying
<pwnguin> the CoF is fine, this business card is not
<kooldude> i am a noobie
<pwnguin> there's only one way to fix that
<pwnguin> practice!
<kooldude> im fresh new pwnguin... so can you give me a jumpstart
<kooldude> on what were doing
<kooldude> i am exactly 13
<kooldude> and i have alot of computer expirence
<pwnguin> well I can't say what "we're" doing
<kooldude> k
<kooldude> srry...
<pwnguin> i just mean, i dont know the team
<pwnguin> Does the artwork team have a list of goals for intrepid?
<pwnguin> usually there's a theme
<kooldude> i dont know very much
<kooldude> about the goals
<pwnguin> just a general question, not directed at you
<pwnguin> anyways, there's usually a wallpaper and a gtk theme that the art team does
<kooldude> oh ok
<pwnguin> for intrepid, I believe a dark theme is getting a test run
<kooldude> i have a pretty good one... ill send a screenshot to you
<pwnguin> not a good idea
<pwnguin> well maybe
<kooldude> ?
<pwnguin> im not familiar with irssi and dcc
<pwnguin> but that doesn't stop me from using irssi =(
<kooldude> i see
<kooldude> here ill try
<kooldude> i opened a dialog window accept my offer please
<pwnguin> i dont see anything =(
<kooldude> hmm then try and right click my username in the sidebar to the right
<kooldude> and select "open dialog window"
<pwnguin> just a second
<kooldude> k
<pwnguin> interesting
<kooldude> what
<pwnguin> 13:04 Warning: Port sent with DCC request is a lowport (0, unknown) - this  isn't normal. It is possible the address/port is faked (or maybe  someone is just trying to bypass firewall)
<pwnguin> 13:04 DCC SEND from kooldude [0.0.0.199 port 0]: kool-1.png [571kB]
<kooldude> i have a firewall
<kooldude> and im kinda having problems with linux and my dads router
<kooldude> did you get the photo
<pwnguin> i think so
<kooldude> good
<kooldude> you should see it
<pwnguin> oh
<pwnguin> pingus
<kooldude> the bottom yellow bar is an auto hide bar
<kooldude> what
<pwnguin> the background
<kooldude> oh yah... lol
<pwnguin> theres an artist who did a ton of those
<kooldude> i found a bunch of those at www.linux-wallpapers.com
<pwnguin> yea; I believe the goal is to make something new for everyone
<kooldude> ill show you my windows' theme
<kooldude> like that for a dark theme
<pwnguin> the white irssi background kinda looks wierd, no?
<pwnguin> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_810_alpha1&num=1
<kooldude> that i can't change
<pwnguin> kooldude: well, we've got the source code
<kooldude> ?
<pwnguin> to xchat
<kooldude> ohh... so you can change it
<kooldude> i see
<kooldude> kool
<kooldude> i better with the visuals... not so much the programming
<kooldude> but i do have somewhat expirence for configuring it
<pwnguin> as i understand it, the point of the dark theme in intrepid is to point out the problems with dark themes on the desktop
<pwnguin> so we can fix some of them
<kooldude> k
<jldugger> actually, you can change the xchat background stuff
<kooldude> but i like my dark theme... its nowere nearly as boring as the "high contrast and inverted" themes
<kooldude> i can
<kooldude> ?
<kooldude> how?
<jldugger> settings -> preferences -> colors
<kooldude> ohhh ok
<jldugger> foreground and background
<kooldude> lol
<pwnguin> heh, here's a fun screenshot http://people.cis.ksu.edu/~jld5445/wipeout.png
<kooldude> not so organized though
<pwnguin> meh. the point was to try out the wip3out font. it doesnt work well for anything besides text labels
<kooldude> k
<kooldude> i see
<kooldude> so here is the new and improved theme
<kooldude> the bar with the two desktops is a slide able
<kooldude> i think the dark theme i have RULES!!!
<kooldude> at least... for now
<pwnguin> kooldude: there's a program we use to demo themes
<kooldude> ?
<kooldude> demo themes?
<pwnguin> yes
<kooldude> please explain
<pwnguin> apt-get install thewidgetfactory
<kooldude> k
<pwnguin> then just run 'twf'
<kooldude> one sec my sudo is giving me the error crap
<kooldude> there
<kooldude> installing now
<kooldude> k i have it
<pwnguin> twf is the command, i dont know why it doesnt have a .desktop entry
<pwnguin> it demos about all the gtk GUI "widgets"
<kooldude> i can't get my theme to show in the choser
<kooldude> and it is saved as KOOL THEME
<pwnguin> hmm; you've probably done more with themes than I have
<kooldude> lol
<kooldude> i've costomized everything
<kooldude> and im 13 :P
<kooldude> lol
<kooldude> i dont mean to be offencive t all
<kooldude> at all*
<pwnguin> have you considered the google highly open participation contest?
<kooldude> ?
<kooldude> what's that
<pwnguin> google ran a contest a half-year ago
<kooldude> yah
<pwnguin> basically, people 13-18 are recruited to do stuff with open source projects
<kooldude> k
<kooldude> ool
<pwnguin> they give out tshirts and other stuff
<kooldude> that is awesome
<kooldude> i wish i had known about that earlyer
<pwnguin> like money
<pwnguin> well, if you're 13, it's pretty close
<pwnguin> the government doesn't like child exploitation
<kooldude> actualy i turned 13 in apil
<kooldude> april*
<pwnguin> http://code.google.com/opensource/ghop/2007-8/
<pwnguin> yea, the context was over in february
<kooldude> so that wouldn't be possible
<kooldude> because the did it in febuary
<pwnguin> anyways, you might keep an eye out
<kooldude> i will
<pwnguin> if they do it again, it might be a good way for a young person to get expeience and mentoring
<kooldude> man thats kool
<kooldude> oh yah
<kooldude> and i have alot of expirence with gnome already
<pwnguin> oh?
<kooldude> hey... does anyone know that kde came out with a new version
<pwnguin> http://code.google.com/p/google-highly-open-participation-gnome/issues/list?can=1&q=completed&colspec=ID+Status+ClaimedBy+Summary&x=status&y=claimedby&cells=tiles has a list of last time's tasks, if you want to know what you'd be doing in the contest
<kooldude> i already was looking at that page
<pwnguin> ah
<pwnguin> he
<kooldude> anyhow did you know that kde came out with a new version
<pwnguin> i dare say, this might be something ubuntu should look into, I think last time they ran out of tasks
<pwnguin> yes
<pwnguin> they do that
<pwnguin> and then their bloggers wont shut up about it ;)
<kooldude> i think they are slightly copying the mac
<kooldude> os
<kooldude> lol
<kooldude> man that's all kool
<kooldude> so what improvment's do you think i could do with my desktop theme
<pwnguin> well, the window decoration gloss is a bit bright; it makes it hard to read the title
<kooldude> k
<kooldude> i can fix that
<pwnguin> is that the intrepid theme?
<kooldude> ?
<pwnguin> are you running intrepid or hardy?
<kooldude> hardy
<kooldude> but i think you all could use it as a base-off
<pwnguin> you might register a flickr account to host your screenshots; it'd be easier than dcc'ing and you'd have a historic record
<pwnguin> you might also try out the intrepid livecd
<kooldude> i have one
<kooldude> ill upload it
<pwnguin> see, im connected to irc via ssh so i have to bring up firefox anyways ;)
<kooldude> i see
<kooldude> i like firefox
<pwnguin> I like turtles
<kooldude> i like penguins!! WHAT NOW!!!
<kooldude> lol
<kooldude> so ill chat later, i guess... thanks for the update
<pwnguin> stay in school! ;)
<kooldude> so...
<kooldude> were do we give our themes and icons to
<kooldude> hello
<kooldude> pwnguin
<kooldude> !!!
<kooldude> hi
<kwwii> re
<kooldude> pwnguin... private conversation please!!!
<kooldude> i've got something cool to tell you
<kooldude> kwwi
<kooldude> i dont know you very well do i
<kwwii> hi
<kwwii> no idea, who are you?
<kooldude> i am a recent recrutment
<kwwii> kool
<kooldude> (13)
<kwwii> so to speak :-)
<kooldude> you too?
<kwwii> am I also a recent recruitment?, no :-)
<kooldude> lol
<kooldude> i started yesterday and none responded
<kwwii> don't take that personally, it is really not that abnormal that people miss things from time to time
<kooldude> i know
<kooldude> but was on for an hour or so...
<kwwii> sometimes days go by, trust me
<kooldude> lol
<kwwii> night all
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-07-11
<Salane> Anyone here?
<Salane> Hey
<pwnguin> a little anxious, that one
<psyke83> kwwii, hey, were there any problems with the theme update?
<psyke83> oops I just saw you mention it on the ML, never mind ;)
<Salane> Its like 2:30 where he lives lol
<psyke83> Salane, I'm only an hour away from that myself :)
<Salane> Oh nice
<Salane> Having a good night?
<Salane> Its only 19:30 for me :D
<alex-weej> <alex-weej> who's been hacking on NewHuman?
<alex-weej>  i have my 2p to add
<alex-weej>  the little stripe at the top of the window frame is way too close to the title text
<alex-weej>  feels cramped
<_MMA_> kwwii: ^^^
<alex-weej> the amount of space below should equal the amount of space above MINUS the thickness of the stripe
<alex-weej> or at least be enough so that they don't look uneven. see clearlooks' tabs in both the front and back states
<alex-weej> (don't look in Firefox. it makes a hash of the geometry i think)
<kwwii> alex-weej: while the text could go down a bit, there is not much space left below to move it down more than a few pixels
<alex-weej> don't move it down
<alex-weej> kwwii: apply clearlooks, open ephy and look at two tabs
<alex-weej> the text has room to breathe whether the stripe is there or not
<alex-weej> it's also affecting the window icon in NewHuman
<kooldude> hi
<kooldude> if anyone can respond please do (kiwwi, pwnguin)
<kwwii> alex-weej: are you talking about the window decoration text or the text in tabs?
<alex-weej> window decoration in NewHuman
<alex-weej> but it's similar to the tabs in Clearlooks, right?
<alex-weej> with the text and the stripe above it
<kwwii> never thought of it that way, but yes :-)
<kwwii> I realize it is a problem and it will be addressed, thanks for reporting it
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-07-12
<zerwas> Are the colours itself of NewHuman declared as final now? ;)
<DanaG> Ooh, nice folder icon: http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/07/reworking-folder-into-ubuntu.html
<DanaG> Though the angle should be checked for consistency -- when I tried the Fedora slanted icons, everything seemed out of whack, so I don't want that sort of effect.
<DanaG> And this bootsplash style is sheer awesomeness: http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/07/startup.html
<DanaG> Or perhaps more modestly, "I like it a lot".
<BHSPitLappy> it's okay
<pwnguin> Is there a way to query the HW database or ubuntu.com weblogs for information on display sizes and DPI?
 * pwnguin wonders what percentage of ubuntu-art traffic is complaints about top posting
<DanaG> Heh.
<DanaG> =Ã¾
 * pwnguin is browsing the proposals
<pwnguin> I wish there was a way we could ask for proposals while suggesting that they cannot involve forking upstream software
<pwnguin> but maybe I'm crazy and we want that
 * DanaG wishes Gnome (can be gnome-settings-daemon or nautilus) would support ARGB.
<pwnguin> instead of?
<pwnguin> CMYK?
<DanaG> Currently it does not support alpha.
<DanaG> So, you can't have a semitransparent background.
<DanaG> It'd only make sense under a compositing manager, but it'd enable several things in one fell swoop:
<pwnguin> why background?
<DanaG> Want to use compiz wallpaper plugin?  set background 100% transparent.
<DanaG> Want to have wallpaper have a cutout "window" to other sides of the cube: use a png with an alpha channel.
<pwnguin> surely you have more
<DanaG> You could also use xwinwrap to wrap videos and such, without occluding desktop icons.
<DanaG> Just make wallpaper transparent, and draw behind it (to the root window, I assume).
<pwnguin> well, i'd just like to see fewer "lets move File Edit View" suggestions
<DanaG> Another cool idea: http://www.tranism.com/weblog/archives/2006/11/os_x_atmosphere.html
<DanaG> Though I've learned from experience: cloudy backdrops make me feel gloomy.
<pwnguin> how about a nice cell shaded grassy hill with gusts of wind
<DanaG> Look at dream.wincustomize.com -- some cool videos there.
<DanaG> They're in some proprietary format, but once you use them in Windows, it extracts the video.
<Cimi> hi guys
<darkmatter> yargh
<thorwil> http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/07/who-is-ubuntus-audience.html ^^
<zerwas> Hello Cimi :-)
<Cimi> hi zerwas
<zerwas> Cimi, i have asked myself what the GNOME Wallpaper Contest for 2.24 has resulted in ... (when) will the wallpapers be published? :-o
<Cimi> i should bring the wallpapers and start making decisions
<Cimi> I have a lot of things to do
<zerwas> ye i know you are busy all the time :-(
<Cimi> clearlooks, murrine, ubuntu, wallpapers, gnome.themes-extras...
<Cimi> maybe I will stop opensource for a year or so
<Cimi> unfortunately
<zerwas> oh, why?! we need your contributions :-(. is it too much to handle?
<zerwas> sorry Cimi_. hope i didn't miss an answer.
<Cimi_> ?
<zerwas> i said: "why?! we need your contributions :-(. is it too much to handle?"
<Cimi_> yeah too much
<Cimi_> I should study a little bit more and work in the free time to get a laptop
 * Cimi_ doesn't have a laptop
<zerwas> ye i know. i recommend eBay for that
<alex-weej> is it just me or have the submenu arrows gotten a whole lot bigger this cycle?
<ricsi-pontaz> hello
<ricsi-pontaz> somebody can help me?
<ricsi-pontaz> i searching an ibex photo to my Intrepid Ibex Wallpapper conception. But i don't found any free pictures
<ricsi-pontaz> anybody?
<BHSPitLappy> the bestbuy-ified retail box for ubuntu makes me nauseous
<kwwii> before anyone else goes off on the bestbuy box, the design of it was done by another company and apparently by the time it was done there was nothing we could do to change it
<kwwii> ie, valuesoft made the box...several people within the company already mentioned that it looks crappy (and has a poor choice of text on it)
<kwwii> anyway...time to pack my bags for the trip to london tomorrow
<BHSPitLappy> it fits right in with the boxes of software which convert documents for viewing on your iPod
<kwwii> lol, yeah
<kwwii> that is probably the nicest that can be said about it
<ricsi-pontaz> hi guys!
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-07-13
<pwnguin> does the art team have a bzr repo or anything?
<zerwas> pwnguin, you can use the intrepid theme on hardy if you want :-)
<zerwas> (i am only a user)
<rxvt> hello
<rxvt> howto i get ltv for my ubuntu distro?
<oliver___> I'm testing the NewHuman theme on Hardy, and wanted to say that I think it looks great. There is one thing I would change: When using Firefox, web pages generally don't look good with the black border around fields when you enter text (e.g. username/password boxes). Other than that, I love the theme, and I'm looking forward to testing Intrepid when Alpha 3 comes.
<oliver___> Another point is that the headings on ccsm are difficult to read (blue against black).
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-07-06
<SiDi> http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8243/capture2a.png
<SiDi> knome: i wish that was possible :/
<knome> what?
<SiDi> knome: the menubar
<knome> SiDi, isn't it? :P
<SiDi> knome: ? :O
<knome> meh
<SiDi> i dont think it can be done for now
<SiDi> would need some :first and :last for the GtkMenuBarItem's
<knome> right.
<zniavre> hello / bonjour
<zniavre> there is a tool to test/try metacity theme as twf or gtkperf ?
<macvr> thorwil: hi... Is the second folder version not correct either? or is it better than first?
<thorwil> macvr: eh, on submissions or discuss?
<macvr> submissions & discussion are both same , discussions is just a link from deviant art
<macvr> thorwil: Cory had said it was too square , so made it a rectangle
<thorwil> this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=folder.png
<macvr> yup
<thorwil> macvr: proportions are better
<macvr> :)
<thorwil> macvr: i think you are wasting your time continuing with the folder
<macvr> thorwil: na... this is my last try...
<macvr> thorwil: i just felt that Andrew's folder was too much of a rip-off of the oxygen theme hence i tried this , in smaller sizes it almost looks like the orange oxygen-refit . ... if he doesnt accept i'll just add it as a breathe-refit to deviant art/gnome-look ;p
<SiDi> then why not keep the first one ? *hides*
<macvr> SiDi: that is a better option :)
<macvr> SiDi: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/ufolder.svg
<SiDi> thats a nice 404
<macvr> SiDi: oops > http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/folder.png
<macvr> ruslanr: how did you send it as a channel notice!
<macvr> man i got to know more irc commands:(
<SiDi> macvr: epicfailed
<SiDi> he actually pm'd you
<SiDi> and you said "hey man you pm'd me"
<macvr> SiDi: : he didnt pm me!
<knome> ...
<macvr> thorwil: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/folder%20%28copy%29.png , your thoughts on this folder , not for breathe , but in general
<SiDi_> there is a perspective problem macvr
<SiDi_> i find the right side a bit too long
<macvr> SiDi_: its not mine... :)
<SiDi_> and the little thing in the bottom right dosnt have a good perspective
<macvr> but just wanted thorwil's views
<SiDi_> ok, tell it that you dont care about me :(
<macvr> SiDi: something is wrong with it , its just that thorwil points things out exactly...
<macvr> SiDi: nothing against your or your views ;p
<macvr> SiDi: i care about mice... :)
<macvr> SiDi: btw how is the progress about using your wallpaper as the default for xubuntu9.10 ?
<SiDi> macvr: err, there is little chance
<SiDi> we care about having users, you see
<macvr> SiDi: knome has given you full support , so there might be a chance ;p
<SiDi> macvr: im actually working on a theme :p
<SiDi> but not for xubuntu
<macvr> SiDi:  that blue is too loud
<macvr> SiDi: you might wan to reduce the saturation or something
<SiDi> macvr: its damn volunteer :]
<macvr> ;p
<SiDi> http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3808/capture2z.png macvr
<SiDi> only the panel will be changed
<SiDi> currently on it
<SiDi> macvr: i really don't see where there is too much blue *hides*
<macvr> SiDi: i like the color of the progress bars , But the title bar and menu bar are too bright/loud
<SiDi> its chromium's colours
<SiDi> guess the name of the theme :D
<macvr> SiDi: maybe using the inactive window colors > http://www.google.com/chrome , thats much better
<SiDi> the linux version has only one color for now
<SiDi> but if they do it i'll change my xfwm for inactive windows ^.^
<macvr> ;p
<thorwil> macvr: shadow is a joke, the gloss is cheap, the perspective not quite right
<macvr> thorwil: gloss! i was wondering how the hell it made sense!
<macvr> thanx
<thorwil> lol
<macvr> i was wondering if you might find a way to explain it :) ,\o/
<macvr> but it really makes no sense!
<thorwil> macvr: oh, and listen to SiDi and be more careful with his feelings!
<macvr> thorwil: sure... i'll feed the mice more cheese
<SiDi> thorwil: lol.. :)
<macvr> SiDi: actually that line got cut it was supposed to be a single line  , but reading it separately, it sounds rude :( , its just that i dont type that fast...
<SiDi> does anyone who does gtk theming know about red lines appearing in FF's toolbar ?
<SiDi> i cant find out where they come from
<psyke83> hi
<thorwil> flickr always renames files, right?
<dashua> hey psyke83
<psyke83> hey
<dashua> How's Humanity coming along?
<dashua> I saw some talk from artir i.e. to new theming framework for Karmic, but have not yet heard anything official.
<dashua> On the forums
<SiDi> dashua: hello
<SiDi> whats up ?
<dashua> Heya SiDi
<dashua> Not much
<dashua> Reveling in my new theme with Breathe.  It makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
<SiDi> wow, so much ?
<SiDi> dashua: i finished my first gtk theme today :)
<dashua> I saw.  It looks good.
<dashua> BUT
<dashua> It's blue =/
<artir> dashua: you can ask kwwii :)
<dashua> artir: Oh nice.
<SiDi> dashua: yeh, its blue :D
<dashua> Hehe
<SiDi> i might do a green version with less aggressive colours
<SiDi> but im not good with brown
<dashua> Green would be nice
<dashua> I'm not having much luck here with gnome-shell.  It doesn't want to run for me.
<SiDi> i never tried it:)
<dashua> I just wanted to test it out.
<psyke83> dashua: I sent the updates to Ken, not sure if the updates are getting included or not
<SiDi> i didnt use gnome since intrepid actually :s
<dashua> =/
<dashua> Humanity is a nice improvement from Human (Human-Murrine)
<SiDi> well, im having low bandwidth most of the time now
<SiDi> so i didnt update my desktop since december
<dashua> I'm having some issue now as well.  Verizon is not working well for me.
<SiDi> got a link to it, dashua ? :)
<SiDi> verizon restricts bandwidth for bittorrent users now, doesnt it ?
<dashua> My phone is crackling and constant disconnecting
<dashua> The PPA?
<SiDi> a link to it so  i can see it:D
<dashua> Gnome-shell?
<SiDi> no, humanity
<dashua> Oh, it's on the forums
<dashua> One sec
<psyke83> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1168984
<dashua> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1168984&highlight=humanity
<psyke83> snap :P
<dashua> Hehe
<psyke83> I think you need to be logged in even to see the previews
<dashua> psyke83: Did you see the theme I posted on the wiki?
<dashua> Any suggestions?
<SiDi> i cant even see the difference with human :p
<SiDi> but im too lazy to download it :(
<dashua> SiDi: Why are going to the dark with Blue? ;p
<SiDi> dashua: cause im on xubuntu ;[
<knome> lol
<dashua> Chrome does look pretty sweet on Vista/Windows 7
<knome> we are not tied to blue and dark
<dashua> The Xubuntu default background is actually quite nice
<dashua> But it is blue.
<SiDi> knome: by dark he meant evil :(
<knome> hah
<knome> dashua, it can be easily converted to eg. pink as it's svg
<dashua> Oh dark side*
<dashua> Missed a word
<SiDi> knome: a pink mouse ? :D
<knome> well some people prefer pink to blue
<dashua> SiDi: How does this render for you?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Human-Redux
<dashua> Should the menu_item be darker?
<macvr> dashua: i suggested SiDi, to maybe using the inactive window colors > http://www.google.com/chrome , thats much better , but he just loves the blue ;p
<SiDi> dashua: no :p
<psyke83> dashua: Human-Redux, you mean?
<SiDi> dashua: but i think you could make the menu background (not menubar) a bit lighter
<SiDi> just a little
<dashua> That actually looks good.  Aero makes it look even better.
<dashua> SiDi: Yeah, Redux
<dashua> Ok
<SiDi> i like the selected_bg color
<SiDi> and the progress bars
<SiDi> but the contrast on the progress bar is a bit big compared to the one on the scrollbars
<dashua> Yeah, nodoka does those pretty sweet
<dashua> Scale too
<SiDi> did you try adding a bit of orange to the toggled buttons ? :)
<dashua> I may change that over to nodoka as well
<dashua> Yes
<dashua> The prelights on most are orange
<SiDi> macvr: its not about loving or not. it's the awesomish color of chromium's menubar
<dashua> salmon
<macvr> SiDi: ;p awesome gives me an eyesore ;p
<SiDi> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=2&id=108046&file1=108046-1.jpg&file2=108046-2.png&file3=&name=Chromium+GTK+%2B+XFWM macvr
<dashua> SiDi: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/17991/screenshot_007_Ffl62Z.png
<dashua> This scale is much better than murrine
<SiDi> dashua: did you ever experience some red toolbar separators / red line in the tabs widget in firefox while theming ?
<psyke83> dashua: it's nice... I would lighten the gradient on the toolbar, make sure the selected_bg_color is consistent (it seems the checkbox, progressbar and scrollbars are all different), and I'm not personally a fan of the nodoka-style tabs (with the colour gradient on the tab), but that's just personal preference of course ;)
<SiDi> dashua: ouch, sexy scale indeed
<dashua> On entry yeah
<dashua> I thought that was a firefox bug
<SiDi> dashua: how did you fix it ? :O
<dashua> psyke83: Thx
<dashua> SiDi: Mozilla was supposed to fix it.  What version of FF?
<dashua> 3.5 was supposed to fix that
<dashua> It was offset
<psyke83> it reminds me of the newhuman-light I was working on before: http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/NewHuman-Light.png
<SiDi> 3.5
<SiDi> so many human forks ^.^
<macvr> psyke83: why does the highlight have a dark line underneath?
<dashua> psyke83: That's funny.  I forked it off of my Hanso theme and originally called Redux Hanso-Light
<psyke83> macvr: where are you seeing that?
<macvr> psyke83: below the orange highlight.. the 1px black line
<psyke83> macvr: on the newhuman-light or humanity theme?
<SiDi> btw if anyone wanna make a metacity theme for my gtk theme let me knowXD
<macvr> psyke83: new human light
<macvr> is there a way to remove it , I havent figured it out :(
<psyke83> I don't see any dark line, what widget are you seeing it in the widget factory, for example?
<macvr> psyke83: the shot you posted > http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/NewHuman-Light.png , just immediately below the title bar orange highlight 1px black line which fades to the outer on either side
<psyke83> macvr: on the metacity decoration, directly above the window title "The Widget Factor"? I'm on a CRT monitor, so it may be more difficult for me to see what you're talking about
<psyke83> *Factory
<macvr> psyke83: yes, exactly
<psyke83> that's using the same metacity decoration as DarkRoom (it was called NewHuman at the time I was working on this particular theme), so it's probably defined in the metacity xml somewhere
<macvr> psyke83: that line from dark room , i never did figure it out.. in the end gave up..
<macvr> yes
<psyke83> one sec
<psyke83> macvr: line 229 of the metacity xml
 * macvr checking
<psyke83> it's bg[SELECTED]/.5 (can't quote exactly, one different pc)
<psyke83> *on
<macvr> psyke83: ah.... thank you...
<psyke83> no problem
<macvr> i was searching for that line and had given up experimenting, since whenever i change my theme my firefox crashes :(
<psyke83> macvr: create a custom application launcher shortcut for "metacity --replace", that's how I test metacity theme changes quickly
<psyke83> you should disable compiz, though
<macvr> compiz is why i didnt create the launcher :(
<macvr> but I'm a small themer , unlike you :)
<psyke83> you could try gtk-window-decorator --replace, never tried it, though
<psyke83> I'm not experienced with theming either ;)
<macvr> ^ ah , should try gtk
<macvr> psyke83: ah... looks better without that line :)  I had been itching to remove it for a long time !
<dashua_> I apologize for my connectivity.  I'm about to chew some ass.
<knome> ass?!
<macvr> ^hehe i read it as "chew some GRass"
<dashua_> Ha
<knome> i don't know which one is worse.. ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-07-07
<AnAnt> Hello, has anyone done any artwork for the new GDM that's in karmic ?
<kwwii_> moin moin
<SiDi> hiya
<kwwii_> hi SiDi
<SiDi> whats up ?
<thorwil> moin!
<SiDi> how is Guadec ?
<kwwii_> btw, there is no ssh here so I cannot login to my normal chat...it is still running on my server :p
<kwwii_> so if anyone has chatted to me in the last few days or the next few to my normal kwwii it will not be read until I get back
<kwwii_> Guadec was good, akademy was better :p
<thorwil> that's just what any impostor would claim :)
<SiDi> you still can /msg nickserv and chanserv
<SiDi> make yourself op and kick me to proof your identity !
 * SiDi hides
<kwwii__> SiDi: sure, but as long as my irssi is running on the server it will keep kicking me off
<kwwii__> boah
<kwwii__> not fast enough
<kwwii> w00t
<kwwii> we'll see how long this lasts :p
<thorwil> it's good that we have no drop-outs in real life. running around with 1 one or more underscores would look silly!
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> having to carry them with you everywhere
<macvr> kwwii: how is the default theme going to handle 16px xdg folders?
<macvr> kwwii_: ^
<AnAnt> hello
<AnAnt> has anyone done any artwork for the new GDM that's in karmic ?
<kwwii__> macvr: I am not sure if we are going to have icons for the xdg folders
<kwwii__> AnAnt: no, we have not touched gdm design-wise yet
<macvr> kwwii__: ah... too bad , i think it was one of the papercuts
<macvr> AnAnt: there are already a few on the wiki page
<kwwii__> macvr: yes, but it was refused because it meant a bit more work
<macvr> kwwii__: \o/
<kwwii__> macvr: if anyone from the community worked on the icons we could include them
<macvr> kwwii__: the human theme? i could give it a shot
<kwwii__> macvr: until now people just showed them with the emblem on top which is really not good enough
<kwwii__> if it is an overlay it needs to be different than the emblem
<kwwii__> ie. the emblems in the human theme (with the orange circles)
<macvr> kwwii__: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=folder-music1.png  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=folder-videos1.png
<macvr> kwwii__: how do those look?
<macvr> just the emblems , not the folder
<kwwii__> macvr: it is a good start
<kwwii__> btw, I am looking into using the humanity icon theme in karmic
<kwwii__> so if anyone wants to install it, etc please test it out and let me know what you thinkthere are several humanity icons which need improvement so we need to pick those out and work on them
<macvr> kwwii__: we could use these emblems on the humanity theme
<kwwii__> macvr: I do not think they would fit as-is but th eidea is good
<macvr> kwwii__: as is surely they wont fit
<macvr> kwwii__: but if you give me an idea what you are expecting, i  could do it
<AnAnt> kwwii__: is there any info that I can find about making themes for the new GDM ?
<macvr> kwwii__: is this the Humanity theme you are talking about >> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/elebuntu_Icons
<kwwii__> AnAnt: there is very little info available that I know of
<kwwii__> macvr: yes, it is also here as a package: http://sinecera.de/humanity-icon-theme_0.1_all.deb
<kwwii__> macvr: well, it needs a good design which fits well with the other icons....it would go different ways depending on how it looks
<macvr> kwwii__: : ok... i'll look at the icon set and try to come up with something that fits...
<macvr> kwwii__: hei! it already has xdg folders in the 24px and 48px folders...
<macvr> guess you dont have to worry about that papercut after all! ;p [fix released] ;p
<SiDi> macvr: updates break more often than you believe :D
<SiDi> and when they break it requires action
<SiDi> and you prefer seeing what broke instead of just constating the breakage on next boot
<macvr> SiDi: yes for us , since we are testing a lot of stuff , but generally it is not that bad
<SiDi> there are a lot of hw upgrades that do break during releases ~
<SiDi> and mirrors can fall down, some updates do require human action, too
<macvr> SiDi: during releases is different... we are talking about updates
<macvr> SiDi: you have got it all wrong!
<SiDi> during releases = during the release cycle = SRU
<SiDi> i dont macvr
<macvr> SiDi: the update is already downloaded
<macvr> SiDi: it is just the time when we update is at shutdown
<SiDi> macvr: first, downloading without user's agreement is very bad practice :D
<SiDi> and you cant reliably think that an update will never need human action
<macvr> SiDi: what the hell are you talking about! i never said that!
<SiDi> apache/java/kernel/grub updates at least do require it
<macvr> SiDi: the user chooses to install , at which time the update is downloaded , but for updates requiring reboot , it is deferred till shutdown
<macvr> SiDi: recheck my mail ;p
<SiDi> macvr: this is completely useless then
<SiDi> better proceed the update in background to avoid losing time
<SiDi> since it wont bring the reboot (thus the features) faster
<SiDi> Updates require reboot to take effect, they dont require reboot compulsorily just after they're done
<macvr> SiDi: the discussion is only for updates requiring reboots , rest are done immediately
<macvr> SiDi: it is not to have the prompt , "PLS REBOOT"!
<macvr> just to not^
<SiDi> well, it prompts it discretely
<macvr> SiDi: most often updates done immediately , sometimes break...
<SiDi> better having a discrete prompt than something that would actually delay the risky period to a moment when you would have no control over whats going on and when you wouldnt be able to focus on it
<SiDi> macvr: nothing never broke for me
<macvr> take for example firefox, if it is not rebooted it shows lot of weird behavior
<SiDi> only FF updates make it bug
<SiDi> and FF != system :D
<SiDi> do you propose to do FF upgrades only at shutdown time ? that'd make more sense ;)
<macvr> SiDi: you have to read the discussion fully! ;p
<SiDi> meh
<macvr> SiDi:  atleast read my mail... ;p i have said that firefox should update *only* when it is shutdown
<macvr> ie: FF is closed
<macvr> SiDi: i find Alex's "stories" amusing ;p
<SiDi> or.. Mozilla stops releasing crappy browsers
<macvr> +! to that
<macvr> +1
<macvr> SiDi: how is the chromium testing out?
<macvr> SiDi: i didnt try it yet... waiting for a proper linux release
<SiDi> its not bad
<SiDi> there are things that badly piss me off
<SiDi> but its mostly minor features, i'll code them myself if they lack at release time
<macvr> SiDi: does it have extensibility like FF?
<SiDi> Chrome on windows doesnt yet
<macvr> :(
<SiDi> but if built-in features are good enough, i'll use third-party tools to replace my plugins ^.^
<macvr> jetpack?
<SiDi> jetpack is mozilla
<SiDi> i'll use tor for adblock, and wget for DTA
<SiDi> i only need dta to bypass bad QoS settings in my network anyway
<macvr> heard that chrome is going to use similar platform
<macvr> so that extensions can be used for both
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-07-08
<macvr> dashua_: hi... how do i download the *all* current breathe icons from lp?
<macvr> dashua_: nevermind... i download it using bzr
<SiDi> macvr: you didnt get scott's point
<SiDi> the word used atm when an app must be restarted is "restarted"
<SiDi> and reboot is used for gpu/kernel updates only
<ryanprior> although there's some firm working on technology for re-initializing the Linux kernel on a running system. Who knows when/if that will come to desktop systems.
<SiDi_> ryanprior: ksplice ?
<ryanprior> as for GPU updates to cards with closed firmware and drivers, that probably needs a power cycle
<SiDi_> it works for ubuntu desktop at the moment according to the authors
<ryanprior> Interesting.
<macvr> SiDi_: i know that!
<macvr> SiDi_: when you mix up ayatana & artwork discussion , you are going to confuse others in the room! ;p
<dashua_> macvr: Do you want a debian package?
<dashua_> Or did you get it from Launchpad?
<macvr> dashua_: i got it from lp... used  bzr
<dashua_> Kk
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-07-09
<billybigrigger> anyone alive?
<macvr> billybigrigger: i guess no ;p
<billybigrigger> any chance we're gonna see the shiki arc and gnome colors as default themes in karmic?
<billybigrigger> i've been using them for the last week or so and should definitely be installed and an option by default
<billybigrigger> i prefer them over human
<billybigrigger> and im sure lots of people do :P
<dashua> billybigrigger: sudo apt-get install shiki-colors :)
<billybigrigger> yeah but, why isnt it installed by default
<billybigrigger> when a new user checks out appearance, those 4 colored themes should be there by default
<dashua> Oh default for sure probably not
<billybigrigger> why?
<BHSPitMonkey> because ubuntu isn't ever what we want it to be by default
<billybigrigger> its 4 themes
<billybigrigger> that look alot better than the default
<billybigrigger> and are practical
<BHSPitMonkey> billybigrigger: and that is why they will never ship :P
<billybigrigger> oh the truth hurts haha
<macvr> billybigrigger: kwwii_ was saying that they are thinking of using Humanity.
<billybigrigger> is that the one that uses the nodoka engine that doesn't work?
<billybigrigger> oh
<billybigrigger> thats not on the karmic art wiki
<billybigrigger> where can i find humanity?
<macvr> billybigrigger: : http://sinecera.de/humanity-icon-theme_0.1_all.deb
<billybigrigger> thats the newest?
<billybigrigger> is there a ppa or anything for it to keep updated?
<macvr> billybigrigger: wiki  >> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/elebuntu_Icons
<billybigrigger> oh i thought humanity was a gtk theme
<billybigrigger> not just iconset
<macvr> i dont , think they will change the theme.
<macvr> billybigrigger: new theme might be only for karmic+1
<billybigrigger> bah humbug
<macvr> billybigrigger: well that is what the UX team says! they might also change the brown color
<billybigrigger> good
<billybigrigger> so what is the art team canonical hired doing for karmic then?
<billybigrigger> nothing
<billybigrigger> ??
<macvr> billybigrigger: that is the silliest question i have heard!
<billybigrigger> well if they're not changing the theme for karmic
<billybigrigger> i thought mark said we're ditching brown for karmic?
<macvr> billybigrigger: yes he did but he also said there wasnt enough time! you seem to be bordering on trolling!
<billybigrigger> haha what do you mean?
<billybigrigger> i my original question was about having shiki arc and gnome colors for 4 default themes
<macvr> trash talking the canonical art team is not appropriate for this room
<billybigrigger> no no
<billybigrigger> i wasn't trash talking
<billybigrigger> i just thought an art team was hired for jaunty+1 and wondered why no change in karmic
<billybigrigger> im sorry if i offended you
<billybigrigger> i don't mean to come off as rude
<macvr> FYI , it is not the art team, it is the UX team , UX=user experience
<billybigrigger> my bad
<billybigrigger> maybe i should sub to the mailing list to catch up on some stuff
<macvr> billybigrigger: dont worry , i'm not working for canonical ;p
<billybigrigger> my info is outdated apparently
<kwwii_> good morning
<kwwii> w00t, I am back
<thorwil> good morning, kwwii
<kwwii> hi thorwil
 * kwwii reads his email backlog...what fun!
<kwwii> thorwil: I just sent an email to our lawyer, we'll see what she says
<thorwil> kwwii: cool, ty
<kwwii> wow, creating a flickr group is a lot of work
<thorwil> kwwii: what, it's not just "add group" give a name and answer join requests?
<kwwii> well, there are rules and an icon ans uch
<kwwii> such
<kwwii> and such...man my spelling is poor this morning
<thorwil> may the spelling be with you later today!
<kwwii> :p
<SiDi> kwwii: back from spain ?
<kwwii> SiDi: yepp
<SiDi> how was it ?
<kwwii> excellent ;)
<kwwii> now I wish I would have stayed the rest of the week
<kwwii> http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-artwork/ is the revamped flickr group
<kwwii> maybe if everyone invites their friends and tell people about it we will get some new contributors
<SiDi> kwwii: should we advertise the group on social networkz ?
<SiDi> netsplit :o
<kwwii> SiDi: yes, please do ;)
<kwwii> several of the design team are going to blog about it, etc.
<SiDi> i'll post on facebook n identi.ca then
<SiDi> my blog is still offline
<kwwii> cool
<kwwii> lol, I forgot the password to my blog :p
<kwwii> shows how much I blog :p
<knome> :P
<kwwii> http://kwwii.blogspot.com/
<kwwii> ta-da
 * thorwil marks the day in calendar
<knome> so *that's* what you look like
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> big and ugly
<knome> naahh
<thorwil> nah, at least not just a floating head like oh-so-many planet bloggers!!
<kwwii> actually, I am not in 99% of those photos
<knome> well you are in the profile photo...
<kwwii> ahhh, on the blog, right
<knome> yep
<kwwii> I was thinking of my flickr page
<knome> nah
<kwwii> wow, about 3,200 people have looked at my profile :p
<thorwil> http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/Museum/
<knome> heh
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Archives
<knome> saw that already, it's a nice idea, but why no xubuntu...
<thorwil> hmm
<thorwil> what's xubuntu?
<kwwii> thorwil: did you make that logo?
<kwwii> they had asked me for one but I got too busy
<thorwil> kwwii: no
<knome> it's a sexy flavor of ubuntu :P
<thorwil> knome: does it come with a lingerie theme??
<knome> thorwil, that's the xubuntu limited edition, with comes with a real lingerie
<knome> you must've messed those up
<kwwii> xfce edition
<kwwii> erm, not edition but flavor ;)
<thorwil> knome: fresh or used lingerie in the limited edition?
<knome> you can choose while ordering
<thorwil> wow!
<knome> you also can choose from red, one or black and from different sizes, of course
<knome> pink is doable, but it costs $10 extra
<thorwil> oh, i suspected blue-only
<kwwii> w00t, I received and answer from a lawyer within hours :p
<knome> hah
<knome> he must be a fake lawyer
<thorwil> kwwii: got it, thanks. of course "sign" is funny, if all we ask of everyone is to just claim to be the photographer/model of the submitted picture
<kwwii> well, in order to use someone photo we will really need a signed release form
<kwwii> I assumed that was clear
<kwwii> sorry
<kwwii> something to have in hand in case someone tries to sue us for using their image :)
<thorwil> kwwii: that needs to be on paper, sent to canonical, then?
<kwwii> thorwil: I am not sure, maybe a scanned copy is enough
<kwwii> wow, looking into it, there is a special release form for minors :p
<kwwii> so, looking at what istockphoto does, you can sign the release form and then upload that scanned copy
<thorwil> i know that istockphoto asks for signed model release forms for each and everyone
<kwwii> http://www.istockphoto.com/tutorial_9.0_modelrelease.php
<thorwil> lol
<kwwii> it does not say it has to be the original piece of paper though...just that it has to be a copy which was signed by hand
<thorwil> kwwii: so can we make this a very official project and your lawyer to prepare such model releases?
<kwwii> thorwil: well, I think we can take a normal model release form, fill in the right names, etc and then send it to her for review
<kwwii> well, both and adult version and a minor version
<kwwii> http://www.betterphoto.com/article.asp?id=37 seems to have a link to word docs
<thorwil> why am i doing this again? oh right, i'm not quite right in the head an think it's fun, somehow! :)
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> thorwil: I will edit the ones on that page and send them to her and ask if that they are ok
<thorwil> kwwii: great! keep in mind that it's about having a permissive license in contrast to what stock sites and co do. thanks!
<kwwii> thorwil: sent...we will see what she says
<thorwil> kwwii: i have a draft call-for-submissions, though without the model release business so far. working on an illustration for it
<kwwii> cool
<kwwii> I guess that the model release is only needed for the ones which are picked to be included
<thorwil> yes, but i wouldn't consider submisions without it in the first place ...
<kwwii> yeah, you are probably right
<kwwii> in any case, the release forms should not be publicly vewable
<kwwii> viewable
<SiDi> meh
<SiDi> chromium having trouble with freenode's webir
<SiDi> c
<thorwil> kwwii: how about a special email address for submissions? bad regarding bandwidth, but something virtually everyone can handle
<kwwii> thorwil: true, we could use the ubuntu-art-devel list for that
<thorwil> kwwii: huh? what i had in mind was an everyone can post with big attachments list
<SiDi> i found a wikipage for the hall of fame
<SiDi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/new_human_icons
<kwwii> lol, guess I will erase that
<SiDi> come on, you're weakening the community when you do such things :O
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> thorwil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfBlUQguvyw
<kwwii> really cool video of using multiple videos
<kwwii> time for a break, bbiab
<kwwii> wow, two responses from two lawyers in one day
<kwwii> thorwil: I sent them the release forms and they responded by saying that canonical has their own and that they will find them and send them to me
<SiDi> kwwii: canonical has cool lawyers !
<kwwii> SiDi: no doubt, I already got another response with the release
<kwwii> that makes the legal team the most responsive team in canonical :p
<kwwii> thorwil: I will forward the release to you, there is a catch in it :(
<SiDi> meh
<SiDi> tthe SiDi fan team is responsive too
<knome> "the sidi fan team"?
<SiDi> yeh knome
<SiDi> im the main and unique member
<SiDi> but i keep hoping
<knome> haha..
<thorwil> 0.0
<SiDi> knome: wanna join ? D:
<knome> hmm...
<knome> let me think
 * kwwii cooks dinner while thorwil reads his email
<knome> SiDi, maybe once you're ready to take credit for what you've done :]
<SiDi> knome: there is no credit i should take, what i do anyone else could do it
<knome> that's a bed excuse.
<knome> *BAD
<knome> damn it...
<SiDi> bed ?
<SiDi> My invitation to join was _only_ about the fan club knome !
<knome> hehe..
<macvr> kwwii: awesome youtube video... amazing editing   0.0
<SiDi> yeh i must say the concept is quire original
<knome> which video?
<SiDi> knome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfBlUQguvyw
<SiDi> www.sidifanclub.com btw !
<knome> open that site first :P
<macvr> knome: i fell for that page too !
<knome> SiDi, http://files.boardgamegeek.com/images/shake.gif
<SiDi> knome: emonk.fi !
<SiDi> very up-to-date :p
<knome> wehmm.. isn't it?
<knome> the fact that some section if updated last in mid-jaunuary 2009 doesn't mean it's not up-to-date
<knome> i need something to drink
<SiDi> macvr: http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3119/capture3w.png
<SiDi> my system is completely broken
<macvr> SiDi: is that a mockup ? or is that the dialogue in xubuntu?
<SiDi> it doesnt suspend when i close the lid, it kernel panics on wake up, it refuses to shutdown properly, terminals open in .cache instead of ~
<SiDi> macvr: mockup
<SiDi> wording is far from perfect but thats the last of my problems :p
<macvr> SiDi: addressing directly like 'you havent' is not nice... rather things needs to be as "the system hasnt been"
<SiDi> Ah true
<SiDi> damn i need to gimp it again now
<macvr> SiDi: also... the warning seems too "in your face" , maybe you are trying to keep it that way... but IMO that is a *very* scary warning for average users
<SiDi> macvr: this would only appear after a week
<SiDi> and its meant to be scary
<SiDi> if you dont scare users they dont scare
<SiDi> and as scottk pointed out the current problem is that they dont care
<macvr> i know... but still, it is too much
<macvr> just my 2 cents ;p
<SiDi> so instead of bothering the 80% who already care, lets scare only the remaining 20%
<SiDi> http://img199.imageshack.us/content.php?page=done&l=img199/7207/capture3j.png macvr
<macvr> SiDi: the initial "It looks like" is not needed , Just "The system..."
<SiDi> i have the feeling i'll reinstall xubuntu soon :|
<SiDi> macvr: yeh i know :p
<SiDi> also the 2nd Â§ sucks a lot
<SiDi> i just wanna convey the idea, the wording will come later
<dashua> SiDi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Human-Redux?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=gnome-themes-ubuntu_0.4_all.deb
<dashua> Testing, when you get a chance.
<SiDi> currently trying to prevent a kitten from being eaten by a bigger cat :|
<dashua> Oh
<dashua> Take of your little friend
<SiDi> cats are STRICTLY forbidden here
<SiDi> if im caught with her im fired off my home :p
<ckontros> macvr: I didn't get the attachment on that email about the folder.
<macvr> ckontros: oh... i didnt send ;p  its the same one from the submissions page
<ckontros> And to answer you question "Is it better" (re nm icon revision) Yes. yes they are. ;)
<macvr> ckontros: BTW , is the nm- icon better now?
<macvr> ok.
<ckontros> I'm going to make a big upload tonight. Mostly accumulated fixes.
<macvr> ckontros: the face-sad needs fixing too.
<ckontros> I have the latest rev from the wiki. Is there another?
<macvr> i mean , i'v sent the corrected labels
<macvr> nothing else , just the labels
<macvr> ckontros: the wiki is the wrong one... the one from the mail i sent is labelled correctly
<ckontros> Looks like mine is correct.
<ckontros> So I guess I have the right one. As well as "face-sick".
<macvr> ckontros: the emblem-default is new version too
<macvr> on the sub page
<macvr> ckontros: the appointment-soon , in the trunk , is blurry. did you check out the edit i had done? [aligned the pixels]
<ckontros> Dont think I did.
<ckontros> I'm grabbing all the emblems on the wiki but " emblem-readonly". Still not crazy about it.
<macvr> ;p
<macvr> ckontros: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/appointment-soon.png < appointment soon
<ckontros> Email it. I'll throw it in this upload.
<macvr> k...
<kwwii> ckontros: hey dude
<ckontros> yo yo
 * kwwii returns from band practice
<ckontros> \m/
<kwwii> saw luis in las palmas
 * ckontros has just returned from work and is doing email.
<kwwii> I took a ride in his car
<ckontros> kwwii: Oh nice. He's been kinda absent lately.
<ckontros> Alot going on with work. Not that he's a full employee at SUN.
<ckontros> Err... Oracle
<kwwii> lol, well, he still works for sun
<kwwii> but it is all the same, I gues
<kwwii> s
<ckontros> sure
<ckontros> macvr: got it.
<macvr> :)
<macvr> SiDi: proposing any idea with tray icon wont be accepted ;p
<macvr> mpt wont allow
<macvr> oops ayatana discussion!
<SiDi> macvr: yeh well find me another bug with 32 duplicates
<SiDi> the new design is not satisfying at all
<ckontros> bug #?
<macvr> ckontros: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier/+bug/332945?comments=all
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/332945/+text)
<macvr> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier/+bug/332945
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/332945/+text)
<macvr> bots!
<ckontros> (rendering latest Breathe updates)
<ckontros> "We discussed it publicly at the Ubuntu Developer Summit in December." really doesn't mean anything. As much as I love them, things are mostly decided by then.
<SiDi> hey mma
<ckontros> yo
<SiDi> took me time to notice you
<ckontros> ;)
<SiDi> ckontros: i was at uds, didnt notice the discussion
<SiDi> but i was late
<ckontros> Sure.
<SiDi> anwyay i think its too drastic
<SiDi> its ok for windows users who expect their OS to misbehave them and who are too lazy / scared to do the updates
<SiDi> but many average level users took it bad
 * ckontros is still sreading the bug.
<ckontros> *reading
<SiDi> basically they removed the tray icon and replaced it by auto popping update manager
<SiDi> i understand why they did it
<SiDi> i just cant accept it :|
 * ckontros likes the tray icon as well. Thinks <PT knows F-all about UI design. But, Canonical will do what it wants to do.
<ckontros> s/<PT/MPT
<ckontros> But this is not to say I have a particular opinion about this issue quite yet. ;)
 * ckontros keeps reading.
 * macvr missed the icon at first but, now got used to it... still not happy about the pop-under :/
<SiDi> i usually perform updates weekly unless security updates
<SiDi> bandwidth issue... and i do it manually anyway
<ckontros> Geeeeeeeeze 420 comments. Wow.
<SiDi> but i HATE stuff popping up
<macvr> SiDi: i changed the pop-under to daily
<SiDi> and 32 dupes, ckontros
<ckontros> ouch
<SiDi> macvr: i changed to old behaviour
<SiDi> never a feature has been so rejected by users
<SiDi> and they DONT want to add a GUI-way to revert the change
<SiDi> you have to change a gconf key by hand
<ckontros> Such is the way of progress. ;)
<macvr> SiDi: mot is working on a new Update manager design
<macvr> mpt!
<ckontros> In a year, this will be forgotten. ;)
<macvr> ckontros: yeah! so true
<SiDi> ckontros: its a progress if it addresses the aimed issue without pissing off a vast majority of the current userbase :D
<macvr> there were atleast 10 comments/day when jaunty was released ... now no one cares ;p
 * ckontros also wonders how much of this is driven by mobile?
<macvr> except SiDi ;p
<ckontros> SiDi: Canonical can do things to piss alot of people off. People will still stay.
<ckontros> I will.
<SiDi> macvr: i learnt it recently
<SiDi> i mostly use xfce as you know :p
<ckontros> Actually, I'd switch to Debian. But, I haven't been pushed that hard yet. :P
<macvr> ckontros: the great thing about removal of the icon is > we dont think much about updates
<macvr> SiDi: dont worry , u'll give up in a few days then
 * ckontros still updates by CLI.
<SiDi> ckontros: same here. and anyway debian seems to import upstream only the polemic changes
<SiDi> macvr: i already gave up for ubuntu
<SiDi> i know it'll stay like that unless something clearly preferable appears
<macvr> ;p
<SiDi> which i'm thinking off, but i'm not a designer at all :p
<SiDi> anyway xubuntu doesnt ship it and will probably not ship it for the next years
<macvr> SiDi: if they pop-up the update-window it will probably eat up the resources... i noticed that in an old netbook every time i opened the update window
<SiDi> its not about that imo
<SiDi> i think they just didnt like the design
<SiDi> we dont ship PA either for instance
<ckontros> [Breathe] Branches updated. https://code.launchpad.net/breathe-icon-set
<kwwii> ckontros: do you have breathe in a ppa yet?
<kwwii> if not, and you want/need my help I will put it in mine asap
<ckontros> kwwii: You haven't been reading your email. ;)
<kwwii> I have a bunch of other stuff to do as well
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> yeah, I missed a lot of the breathe conversation
<kwwii> ahhh
<kwwii> yes
<kwwii> ok
<kwwii> sorry
<ckontros> PPA is up and will get updated regularly and should go to REVU next week.
<kwwii> did he use my packaging?
<ckontros> I added your changes. He made more.
<kwwii> cool
<ckontros> Mostly license stuff.
<kwwii> we should make an "ideal package" like we had in the past
<kwwii> perhaps with instructions for change
<kwwii> but that is another matter
<ckontros> Like a base package for other sets?
<kwwii> exactly
<ckontros> Would be nice to add to the example-look stuff.
<kwwii> not sure how many newbies want to start an icon theme
<ckontros> Sure.
<kwwii> but it would be good to add somewhere :p
<kwwii> although after packaging the humanity theme I must say there is no one-size-fits-all solution
 * ckontros notes that doing all the wiki linking is *not* fun but works pretty well. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons/Emotes
<ckontros> kwwii: What do they do differently?
<kwwii> the whole set is svg and icon dirs are layed out differently than normal
<kwwii> every size has svgs instead of pngs
<ckontros> I wonder why?
<ckontros> Oh neat.
<ckontros> But maybe a little unnecessary.
<kwwii> yeah
<kwwii> I wonder why I say yeah all the time...in german is sounds different :p
<ckontros> :)
<kwwii> at least it makes sense to me
<ckontros> macvr: There's 1 issue with the notification-* icons. The script still tries to make a SVG in scalable/ but they are empty. Gotta figure something out for that. For now, I'll remove them manually.
 * kwwii heads out for the night...bis morgen!
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-07-10
 * thorwil wonders what to think of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Flowers
<knome> suggest it as the new logo of ubutnu for mark
 * knome hides
<thorwil> kwwii: http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu/discuss/72157617257225731/
<thorwil> what the hell is the point of an additional ubuntu users group? http://www.flickr.com/groups/590097@N22/pool/
<thorwil> people are strange
<thorwil> we have a Lord_Darth_Vader in the Community pool! http://www.flickr.com/photos/lord_darth_vader/1520509199/in/pool-ubuntu
<thorwil> i would have thought he's a pure windows user
<knittl> hi. i've been watching the breathe icon set bzr branch now quite a while and want to try it out
<knittl> how can i install the icons? moving to /usr/share/icons/Breathe doesn't help
<knittl> ah no. it did. only had to close the appearance dialog
<knittl> sry for the fuss
<thorwil> SiDi: translation, please
<SiDi> thorwil: ballmer says "join the obscure side of the force"
<SiDi> and novell answers "it already began and i bite my fin for it"
<thorwil> hrmpf :)
<thorwil> bbl
<kwwii> wow, http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-artwork/ already has 35 members :)
<knome> should i join? ;)
<ruslanr> that's good :)
<kwwii> everyone should join and everyone should upload amazing photos :)
<knome> well, i'm not that active at flickr
<knome> that's why i'm wondering
<knome> well, i joined.
<kwwii> ;)
<kwwii> I have sucked you into the world of flickr
<knome> nah
<knome> my photos consist 60% of my desktop-shots
<knome> IRL-desktop
<kwwii> hehe
<knome> i think i have to takeone for this year
<knome> kwwii, http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/3707110680/
<knome> i apologize the *BAD* quality
<knome> ruslanr, please do not *notice* :)
<ruslanr> ok
<ruslanr> sorry
<knome> no problem
<knome> i nearly missed it ;)
<knome> and thanks btw ;)
<knome> these are quite nice
<kwwii> hehe, cool
<SiDi> knome: your desktop lacks a sidi
<SiDi> to use all this hardware
<kwwii> btw, there is an update to the icon theme, gtk theme and metacity theme as well as a the humanity icons in my ppa
<knome> SiDi, hah
<SiDi> kwwii: mind giving me the PPA please ?
<SiDi> and i didnt know about the gtk / metacity :o
<SiDi> do you have screenshots too ? :d
<kwwii> they look much the same (the human gtk is the only thing that really looks a bit different
<kwwii> https://launchpad.net/~kwwii/+archive/ppa
<SiDi> for me the thing that needs a big refresh is the metacity :/
<SiDi> err any reason why your PPA isn't available for jaunty kwwii ? :|
<kwwii> SiDi: no, that seems really funky to me
<michote> macrvr: Hi, the smileys look a bit inconsist in small res http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/Bildschirmfoto-L%C3%A4cheln%21.png shall we fix this for 0.5?
<michote> macrvr: I just fixed angry and smirk eye-size, maybe I should increase the eye-lines of tired and angel, too
<michote> macrvr: mouth of sad and plain lokk a bit bold to me
<michote> macrvr: ^look
<macvr> michote: if i had changed the sad mouth to look like the inverted smile , it looked like a moustache
<macvr> michote: plain looks looks ok, it only "looks" odd because u have it placed next to tired
<kwwii> just updating all of my packages in the ppa for jaunty as well
<macvr> kwwii: are you updating breathe as well?
<macvr> in your ppa?
<kwwii> macvr: breathe is not in my ppa
<macvr> ah... ok.  juast asked since you said something about it earlier
<macvr> just^
<michote> macrvr: ;) maybee use brown like crying in sad, I think a 2px-line is too bold in 24x24 (it's the same as 48x48), but just my 2 cents
<macvr> michote: i tired that, but it didnt look sad enough ;p
<macvr> hence i kept it a bit darker
<macvr> michote: do one thing , move the sad , plain to top row
<kwwii> lol http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10282578-16.html
<macvr> hahahahahah lmao
<ruslanr> :p
<kwwii> SiDi: ok, jaunty packages are now available
<michote> macvr: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/Bildschirmfoto-L%C3%A4cheln%21.png , then I'll change tired to a 2px mouth, too. I'll edit it's eyes anyway
<macvr> michote: the tired looks fine , dont change
<macvr> the mouth
<macvr> michote: for sleepy the mouth looks fine in tired
<michote> macvr: ok do you think the eyes look better now in the smaller sizes or is it too much? http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/face-tired.png
<macvr> michote: try like the face-kiss
<macvr> michote: in face-kiss i had done the the eyes as just the gradient of yellow than white
<michote> macvr: in 24 and 16 you didn't use gradient anymore in kiss
<macvr> michote: it was not need for that smiley ;p you can use it in tired
<macvr> needed^
<macvr> Anyone knows how to fix this > Dust/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:369: Murrine configuration option "style" is not supported and will be ignored.
<macvr> what is the new options now?
<michote> macvr: ok I removed it in 16px, shal I send the fixes to cory directly?
<macvr> what fixes?
<macvr> i thought you were doing it for some pidgin thing
<michote> macvr: I just saw the inconsistence doing this pidgin-theme, don't you think this should be in Breathe as well?
<macvr> michote: you can send it, i wasnt sure of the eyes when you uploaded it , but Cory accepted it... so not sure which he likes... send it anyway
<michote> macvr: ok, I only changed eyes in 24 and 16px anyway :P
<macvr>  Anyone knows how to fix this >>> Dust/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:369: Murrine configuration option "style" is not supported and will be ignored. <<< what are the new options now?
<macvr> dashua_: ^ ?
<zniavre> engine?
<macvr> zniavre: it is from the dust/dust sand theme... i'm not sure of the engine
<macvr> zniavre: clearlooks
<kwwii> it means that the style option is being changed or removed
<kwwii> is being -> has been
<macvr> kwwii: yup.. but what is the new option avail
<kwwii> it means that the maintainer of Dust should get a bug and then talk to Cimi or someone about it
<zniavre> do not know clearlooks sorry
<kwwii> maybe they changed it to profile
<SiDi> I just gave a little kitten up :(
<kwwii> or removed it altogether
<macvr> zniavre: np
<knome> kwwii, removed the kitten?
<kwwii> the same kind of option in murrine was called profile but it was deprecated about 6 months ago
<kwwii> :p
<macvr> kwwii: so changing style > profile should fix this?
<macvr> ah no!
<kwwii> no
<kwwii> removing it will get rid of the problem but also change the style a bit I guess
<kwwii> it depends if it is deprecated or already removed
<kwwii> from the error I imagine you could remove it without any problem
<macvr> kwwii: found this bug > Bug #348918
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348918 in community-themes "Dust theme uses deprecated murrine configuration options (dup-of: 345417)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348918
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 345417 in human-theme ""highlight_ratio" will be deprecated" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345417
<macvr> but the style hasnt yet been fixed
<macvr> i'll see if it can be removed
<macvr> kwwii: this is the only place where murrine engine specifies style> engine "murrine"
<macvr> 	{
<macvr> 		style	= NODOKA
<macvr> 	}
<macvr> i'm stumped... how do i change it?
<kwwii> macvr: well, the murrine engine is different than clearlooks anyway
<kwwii> my guess is that they split up the options which made it "gummy" into several other style properties
<kwwii> so that one can mix and match between all the style properties instead of just having a few presets
 * macvr keeps looking
<macvr> fixed it...! had to replace style with roundedness/highlight_shade
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Archives now includes a link to Dustink Kirkland's ubuntu museum
<zniavre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Archives/5.04  my first linux/ubuntu try, never changed to another OS
<macvr> SiDi: you were asking for a bug more than 32 duplicates... found 1 > Bug #72018
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 72018 in xulrunner-1.9 "MASTER Firefox Crash [@gtk_style_realize] [@nsFilePicker::Show]" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/72018
<macvr> 205 dups!
<macvr> SiDi: try beating that [205]  ;p
<psyke83> kwwii: hey man. I just saw your message re: the packages in your PPA. I'm running Karmic, and it seems that human-theme needs a version bump. See:  http://pastebin.com/m6b268d87
<SiDi> macvr: i just filed bug #666
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 666 in malone "can't file a bug on Ubuntu" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/666
<SiDi> Macvr is boring !
<SiDi> (no offense ;) )
<macvr> SiDi: ??? what does 666 have to do with me!
<dashua> macvr: Try this package.  I updated to 0.4.  Redux will only work with nodoka from git.  It is pissing me off.  May have to backport to murrine =/
<dashua> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Human-Redux?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=gnome-themes-ubuntu_0.4_all.deb
<dashua> Clearlooks is gone in Dust
<macvr> dashua: actually, i realized the prob was with murrine...  "style = NODOKA" , so i replaced it with roundness , now i dont get error
<macvr> dashua: but using backports for the theme, might not be good , since the users wont be aware of the prob
<dashua> I didn't think Dust used the nodoka engine
<dashua> 0.4 is all murrine
<macvr> oh... checking the gtkrc ... :)
<SiDi> but therehas been a full nodoka version afaik
<SiDi> but officious
<dashua> Yeah, I made that one.  Not an official release though.
<dashua> macvr: Can you send me the gtkrc or pastebin it?
<macvr> dashua: of  dust?
<dashua> The one you were having issues with?
<macvr> ok..
<macvr> dashua: http://filebin.ca/gmybe/gtkrc
<dashua> macvr: http://launchpad.net/dusttheme/0.4/0.4.0/+download/Dust-0.4.tar.gz
<dashua> I would use this version
<macvr> ah... i had started editing this long time ago... only today i got fed up of the error :)
<dashua> There a few murrine options in the original dust and style was deprecated to use profile
<macvr> but thanx for the latest version
<dashua> Send me the whole theme if you want it fixed if not just hack on that newer version
<dashua> Humanity icon theme is a nice inheritance for Breathe, but not nearly as good.  More complete though.
<macvr> yeah i like the humanity icons
<dashua> Better than Breathe?
<dashua> =/
<macvr> ;p ... i'm not a fan of orange folders
<dashua> Oh, both are orange.  One is just darker.
<macvr> yeah...
<macvr> dashua: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=103651 this was my old version
<macvr> dashua: http://filebin.ca/tzwqeb/VDustSand.tar.gz
<dashua> Ah ok
<macvr> ^ my present version , i'm editing
<macvr> dashua: I'm trying to get the top highlight like the DarkRoom one... But thinner. I'v done a crude hack , using window width... wasnt sure how Darkroom does it :(
<dashua> I'll take a look into it.
<dashua> Ah, Impression buttons.
<dashua> They are nice.
<macvr> ;p
<macvr> I'v edited the colors
<macvr> still redundant buttons are there in the folders,
<dashua> macvr: I think I'm going blind temporarily using a blue theme ;p
<macvr> which blue?
<dashua> This blue is actually a nice shade
<dashua> VDust
<macvr> the select is only blue , rest is grey
<dashua> Yeah
<SiDi> macvr: friendship request!
<macvr> any idea which lines dark room uses for the top highlight? there were too many and i got tired
<macvr> SiDi: ??? you are totally confusing me today ???
 * macvr glad lp is silent today...  there were too many new papercuts
 * SiDi misses some purrs in the background
<dashua> macvr: try round_bevel
<macvr> for?
<dashua> You want to get rid the top line?
<dashua> That is where it is in darkroom
<macvr> i want the top line
<macvr> but the way i have done it is using the x=witdth -
<dashua> oh
<dashua> I'll add it for you
<macvr> which messes up for very small windows
<macvr> thanx
<macvr> dashua: only for the normal small windows the theme has problems, the maximized window works well
<macvr> also round_bevel was for progress bars?
<dashua> They are handled by clearlooks
<macvr> yeah , i changed them today to clearlooks
<dashua> kwwii: Will Human-Clearlooks be deprecated in Karmic or is it staying in the human-theme package?
<dashua> macvr: I'll have to work on this.
<dashua> What did you use as a starting metacity?
<macvr> dashua: i started with dust sand .
<dashua> Sand?
<dashua> Ok
<kwwii> dashua: well, good question, now that you ask
<macvr> dashua: i'm in no hurry, you can do it in your leisure
<macvr> kwwii: pls dont remove clearlooks :(
<kwwii> why?
<kwwii> not that I would remove the engine
<kwwii> or the other themes
<macvr> i like it ;p
<kwwii> but why have the human clearlooks stuff?
<macvr> it has the blue ;p
<kwwii> lol, that is not human
<kwwii> we are talking about two different things
<macvr> oh!
<kwwii> but anyway....anyone who takes photos who is not on the flickr group and contributing should be
<macvr> i thought he was referring to the clearlooks theme!
<kwwii> and with that, I will call it a night
<dashua> kwwii: Night mate.
<kwwii> I toot my horn to everyone and then watch a film
<kwwii> be good, have fun ;)
<knome> see you kwwii
<macvr> nite kwwii
<SiDi> kwwii: what about people in the group and not taking photo ? (<-)
<kwwii> night all
<kwwii> SiDi: good point!
<SiDi> night kwwii :p
<knome> SiDi, i joined, so should you :P
<SiDi> knome: i did too :D
<kwwii> I actually thought about making another flickr group for that
<knome> SiDi, you can take a photo of your... belly button
<kwwii> people seem to like flickr
<SiDi> knome: meh. i'll take a photo of kittens
<knome> :D
<SiDi> kwwii: i registered to yahoo for this group
<knome> SiDi, they're not that cute
<kwwii> and non-ubuntu people who have some talent seem to group there
<SiDi> i resisted for ~7 years to yahoo !
 * SiDi slaps knome with a angry kitten
<knome> i think this might motivate me to use flickr more...
<kwwii> so maybe it is a way to draw them to light side of the force
<SiDi> hiya ckontros
<SiDi> kwwii: sxc.hu is cool too  but not so communautary
<kwwii> ok, he is back...I really gotta go
<kwwii> SiDi: no doubt
<SiDi> but you can surely find people who would accept giving you some photos there :)
<kwwii> hi ckontros
<kwwii> just kidding
<kwwii> but I was just leaving
 * SiDi hides kwwii so that ckontros doesnt notice him
 * SiDi brings a kitten launcher and points it towards knome.
<knome> meh
 * ckontros waves
<knome> flickr pro is just too expensive.
<knome> really means one should update photos there.
<knome> well..
<knome> lets
<knome> see :P
<ckontros> $20 is expensive? (what I last thought it cost anyway)
<kwwii> actually, I have been using flickr pro for several years
<kwwii> mainly for my parents
<kwwii> I had it on my own site and they simply didn't get it
<SiDi> ckontros: $20 will be my august flat rent :D
<ckontros> Wanna trade with me?
<ckontros> SiDi ^^^
<SiDi> ckontros: a flat for a flickr pro ?
<SiDi> you've never seen my flat !
<SiDi> if you mean flat rents... depends, do we also trade jobs ?
<ckontros> SiDi: I'm askin if ya wanna trade our housing payments. ;)
<SiDi> how much do you pay ?
<ckontros> $1100 monthly
<SiDi> ahahahaha
<SiDi> i could pay two months per year :D
<ckontros> ;)
<SiDi> Question for the people who write GUIs from times to times !
<SiDi> I've got an image in a hbox in a menu item
<SiDi> i want to change this image, and i want to _see_ the change
<SiDi> what magic methode shall i call ? :O
<SiDi> method*
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-07-11
<Flannel> Anyone in here have experience dealing with printed stuff?  We're trying to get a banner printed, and are worried about colors turning out wildly different than on screen, wondered how we might go about minimizing that risk
<Flannel> Or, if anyone wants to give suggestions (only two background colors!) I'd be happy to get input, that way I can blam^H^H^H^Hthank you later.  We're just a little short on time making our final decision (45 minutes!)
<knome> Flannel, do a test print? ;)
<knome> Flannel, are you printing it locally or sending it to some print shop?
<Flannel> My printer isn't the best with colors, but yeah, it looks like a mixture of my two monitors
<knome> okay. maybe make a sample image with all the colors you are using *a lot*, do test prints and adjust the colors as needed
<knome> then print a small copy of the complete banner to see if all the colors are okay
<Flannel> We've got a guy whos at a school where they have a big printer, so he's printing through that.  He's going to try and get a proof before the real thing, and then give a yay or nay
<knome> okay.
<knome> if you were sending it to a print shop, they possibly could make sure the colors were right if you gave them some pantone color numbers.
<knome> but it's of course differenet if someone not-so-experienced is printing it
<knome> the best way really is to use time to print some test/sample versions.
<Flannel> Well, we're not really trying to match anything in particular, it's just two tannish background colors, we just don't want them turning out really red or really yellow
<knome> :)
<knome> yeah.
<Flannel> but yeah, know what you're saying, agree, just... don't have that luxury I don't think.
<knome> i see.
<knome> hehe
 * tutatux vou cortar os pulsos
<thorwil> kwwii: got my proposal email?
<SiDi> kwwii: can you please mail me your public key for your PPA ?
<SiDi> cant acceed it on LP cause of my firewall, and my usual keyserver on port 443 is dead :/
<kwwii> thorwil: yes, I am discussing it with ivanka and otto from the design team
<kwwii> SiDi: erm, no idea which key that would be
<thorwil> kwwii: cool
<kwwii> I assume my key
<kwwii> 1024D/BD058F7A
<kwwii> unfortunately, the team members on my own team are less responsive than the legal team
<kwwii> which makes no sense
<thorwil> would a butt-kick illustration help? :>
<SiDi> kwwii: well yeh this one
<thorwil> this blows my mind: http://flyingcats.us/CatBirds_Makoto_Nakamura.gif
<SiDi> https://launchpad.net/~kwwii/+archive/ppa kwwii this one actually sorry
<SiDi>  	  1024R/EDCA87CA
<kwwii> ahhh, that is created by launchpad, not by me
<SiDi> can you click on the link and pastebin the key itself please ? :)
<SiDi> its on port 17737 or somethinglike that, cant do it myself
<kwwii> 0x17edd5b5af17fc35a333bd79b4c340a1edca87ca
<kwwii> mI0ESXb/pgEEAMeapL9svuP2aq0FR6W9n777o15Ug28ESCSTe35L7uoiAbVSS2jPHB3B1s+B
<kwwii> YqovzKfjVsiLWlidtqQQcci17+CFeLmakjFRKiw8DfoTt7pZYgP9q1L85M1jexyHltu5TBlg
<kwwii> ZPze0TtbZZKxtFstU3fe10bz9ein1OfF/6ATH/89ABEBAAG0H0xhdW5jaHBhZCBQUEEgZm9y
<kwwii> IEtlbm5ldGggV2ltZXKItgQTAQIAIAUCSXb/pgIbAwYLCQgHAwIEFQIIAwQWAgMBAh4BAheA
<kwwii> AAoJELTDQKHtyofK/wYD/Asbp/OJDbqXICBJ0hnKF4ei9O7+hG98BszJ4SHQAiGii0eYX+NH
<kwwii> l4EiKunPBfdJn9O6Siyk8HEJkCVPLvSFRdYU+GIvoxzXQumCEHyFUgZTmXpiJSXiFQhXS+dj
<kwwii> GslPaX87h4E7ooFtd+zkoEfRLTNvqhgzwats1TsI+zTj6F1I
<kwwii> =i0cF
<kwwii> oops
<knome> "oops" exactly
<SiDi> thanks kwwii
 * kwwii heads out for a saturday with the family...bye
<SiDi> bb
<ckontros> macvr: So the 48px PNGs need to be in scalable/ ? The won't work in 48x48?
<macvr> ckontros: yup... when the user changes the font size , the size of the notify-osd changes , at that time the scalable icons are needed
<macvr> you can have simlinks from the 48px in the scalable/
<ckontros> macvr: That's what we'll do. I have to talk to kwwii to see if a better solution can be found.
<macvr> kwwii: ping
<ckontros> Because PNGs in scalable/ just drive my OCD insane.
<ckontros> And, it's a bug if their path is hard-coded like that.
<macvr> ;p
<macvr> ckontros: any size larger, than 48px will *not* display well in the notify-osd , because the bug #393797
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 393797 in notify-osd "Feature request : improve the resizing algorithm" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/393797
<ckontros> "Fix committed" So maybe we should get the other sizes in there.
<ckontros> Will be funny for anything other that Karmic but that's my target.
<macvr> ckontros: the commit isnt good either , the best rescale algorithm deosnt do any justice tot he icons/images
<macvr> they just end up blurry/loose color...
<ckontros> macvr: I *think* I'd rather do things correctly in the set and let the notify-osd guys work things out. I'm not usually happy with work-arounds.
<macvr> its nore of the proper algorithm still doesnt exist in Ubuntu
<macvr> more^
<macvr> its not the notify-osd fault , its just the os dosen have good rescale algorithms'
<ckontros> Still, not our bug. And I doubt is an OS thing. Just a lib thing most likely.
<macvr> nope , not our bug... i didnt think so either but mpt said it was more of the OS
<macvr> ckontros: i just noticed something... the 22px , how are they made?
<ckontros> *Everything* is rendered with Inkscape via a script in trunk.
<macvr> they 22px just seems to cut 1px around the 24px , this just cut the nm-icon in the 22px, i wan to edit it, shall i send the edit in a couple of hrs?
<macvr> ckontros: ^
<ckontros> macvr: Give me a couple of mins. I'll clean up the branches and approve your membership on the condition that you upload no new icons.
<ckontros> Ok?
<macvr> ckontros: i wont dare... ;p
<ckontros> macvr: You've used BZR correct?
<macvr> i'v just used it to download the icon set
<ckontros> Oh. So no actual uploading?
<ckontros> Hmm... Maybe it will be best to just send me the revision.
<macvr> ckontros: NO... i dont have a bzr account
<ckontros> You just need a LP account and to be on the team.
<macvr> i have the lp ;p , but no bzr , so i dont think i can tinker the icon trunk
<ckontros> There's no "BZR" account.
<ckontros> You just need top be added to the team.
<ckontros> *to be
<macvr> ckontros: oh... ok.. dont worry , i wont any icons , i'm not that crazy
<macvr> wont add^
<ckontros> macvr: So in trunk, all that needed fixing is emblem-important correct?
<ckontros> (and removing the blank icons)
<macvr> i found that error, let me check for anything else
<ckontros> I fixed the spelling in the layer name.
<macvr> which icon?
<ckontros> emblem-important
<macvr> i dont see anything else that needs fixing
<ckontros> nm. I was mistaken. In any case, it's in the set now and blank items removed. Uploading now.
<ckontros> macvr: Ok. Both branches should be in sync and you are approved. I will be a little scarce today but might be able to attend to minor things later but most likely tomorrow night.
<ckontros> bbl
<macvr> ckontros: just a min...
<ckontros> I must run. Quickly
<macvr> the 22px fixes , when do you want it?
<ckontros> ASAP.
<macvr> ckontros: just asked since you said you want be avail today...
<ckontros> Honestly, I don't understand the issue and don't have the time now. I gotta jet. bbl
<macvr> ok bye
<psyke83> kwwii: hey. What do you think about reducing the gtkbutton size for the theme? It makes sense, especially since lots of users use netbooks nowadays. Take a look at the before/after: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7597314&postcount=37
<psyke83> (never mind, will write the suggestion on the list so you can reply to it at your leisure ;))
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-07-12
<SiDi_> kwwii: i LOVE the humanity icon theme ;)
 * ckontros is having a off day and cant remember how to run this on a specific dir. find -name *.svg | xargs inkscape --vacuum-defs -z
 * SiDi_ hides
<thorwil> ckontros: why don't you just cd to the specific dir?
 * thorwil pulls away SiDi_'s cover
<ckontros> I did now.
<ckontros> Then I did: inkscape --vacuum-defs -z *.svg
<ckontros> So all works fine. ;)
<SiDi_> thorwil: meh
<thorwil> http://light-test.com/wp-content/uploads/990/danalighttest.jpg
<ckontros> uh huh... :)
<thorwil> http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/07/11/desktop-theming-and-icons/
<thorwil> and http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/07/12/icon-theme-hacking-progress/
<ckontros> thorwil: But Jono surely doesn't realize where these other icons are used and will pop up. IIRC there's code changes coming to better do this for a set.
<thorwil> ckontros: yeah, someone already pointed that out in the comments
<ckontros> Oh. I didn't read.
<thorwil> i just found it interesting that jono started to fiddle around with that
<ckontros> True.
<thorwil> reading blog comments is often just a waste of time. similar to reading blog posts :>
<ckontros> :P
<macvr> ckontros: topic needs editing ;p
<macvr> for the room
<ckontros> To?
<ckontros> (and I think anyone can edit)
<macvr> your adult/professional nick ;p
<ckontros> Sorry man. It's just a little early here and I don't get it.
<ckontros> (not quite firing on all cylinders yet)
<macvr> the topic says, set by _MMA_ ...
<thorwil> what a childish leftover from the distant past!!
<ckontros> Doesn't actually say it in channel.
<macvr> lol
<macvr> thorwil: several blogs of late are just "Dear Diary..." entries!
<macvr> ckontros: are we missing a lot of simlinks?
<macvr> the appearance window doesnt use the trash can, for delete
<macvr> also will xdg folder icons be used in Jaunty?
<macvr> they dont show up in the places menu
<ckontros> macvr: The "delete" icon is actually separate. Like gtk-delete or something. Some themes just link to the trash. As far as the XDG folders go, I'm unsure about Jaunty. Support for theming might be new.
<ckontros> We don't (or didn't) use them in Studio and I personally don't either.
<macvr> ckontros: shall mail the list about xdg? or shall we leave it for now? because the folders have been created and it would be a sad if it was just that we dont have the right simlinks
<macvr> shall I
<ckontros> Ask the question about the folders but I'm sure of the delete thing. We just need an icon for it. I didn't simlink it because Daniel was working on that series of icons.
<macvr> ok.
<ckontros> macvr: Like I said, I believe support for theming is recent for XDG.
<macvr> ckontros: yeah... but someone needs to test it in Karmic also to make sure it working right
<ckontros> I'm actually gonna do that today as I'm doing a clean install in a VM.
<macvr> ah! why didnt i think of that! my Karmic VM  has been idle since the gdm was broken
<ckontros> ;)
<ckontros> macvr: Isn't some sort of "Downloads" folder a default XDG folder?
<macvr> ckontros: yeah
<macvr> i dont think its being implemented fully , even in karmic
<ckontros> ok
<ckontros> That's the only one that didn't show for me.
<macvr> ckontros: Bug #204567 is in the papercuts , i think it will be done by karmic final
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 204567 in hundredpapercuts "downloads should go to $HOME/Downloads : XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR should be set to "$HOME/Downloads"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204567
<ckontros> Hmm... but the icon should be called "folder-download"? (note the missing "s")
<macvr> ckontros: yup... i still have my doubts , even though Nicolo mentioned it
<ckontros> Ok. We'll see how it plays out. Easy fix if we're wrong.
<macvr> ckontros: simlinks for the notification icons in the scalable folder?
<ckontros> What about them?
<macvr> its not there!
<ckontros> I know.
<ckontros> We already had this chat.
<macvr> ok , you are waiting for kwwii ?
<macvr> ckontros:  the gtk-dialogue-warning looks blurry in the dialogue widows
<ckontros> Well if you remember I said I'm not keen on working around other people's bugs. We do things correctly and if others mess up oh well.
<ckontros> But having said that, I'm still gonna have a chat with Ken.
<kwwii> about what?
<ckontros> macvr: Screenshot please.
<ckontros> kwwii: Got a min to Skype?
<macvr> kwwii: the notify-osd icons
<kwwii> erm, yeah...let me get my stuff setup
<ckontros> k. Im on
<kwwii> lol, and install skype
<ckontros> macvr: Note that if the rest of the icons /should/ be used, but just aren't because of this bug, I want the other sizes done so they can be used when the bug is fixed.
<ckontros> kwwii: Clean install lately?
<macvr> ckontros: gtk-dialogue-warning> http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-Untitled%20Window.png
<macvr> the white creates the blur
<ckontros> macvr: Hmm... Doesn't feel fuzzy to me. See what others think on the list.
<macvr> if its ok for you, nevermind... ;p
<ckontros> Trust me. I know I'm not always correct. But if you wanna let it go ok.
<kwwii> on the phone, bbiab
<ckontros> k
<macvr> ckontros: what kwwii said was, since the 48px is the size of use for the notifications, it doesn have to be done in all sizes , my *only* concern is because the rescale algorithm does a crappy job , doing the icon in all sizes is just a quick edit for me. :)
<ckontros> macvr: Ok. I'll still go right to the source for further info.
<macvr> ckontros: just do 1 thing, rename the nm-signals 128px svg for the notify-osd icons, and test it out with notify-send, you'll see that even the shape doesnt come out right
<kwwii> ckontros: ok, I am ready
<macvr> even worse is , the 48px svg doesnt even get it right!
<macvr> notify-osd^
<ckontros> macvr: Ok. I got the situation. Please send me files with all the sizes for notify-osd so I can test some things out.
<ckontros> macvr: Wanna work on a little BZR HOWTO today?
<macvr> just a sec... was away...
<ckontros> macvr:np. Whenever.
<macvr> i knew you would bring this up... so i have the screen shots of the 48px svg and the png outputs from when i had done it in color.> http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/SVG.png
<macvr> ckontros: compare with the shape of png > http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/PNG.png
<ckontros> heh. Honestly, that doesn't bother me. :P
<macvr> ckontros: well the shape is awkard!
<ckontros> That's the style. By design. ;)
<macvr> ckontros: no its not, the svg isnt being displayed properly, the actual style is displayed well only if it is a png
<macvr> i'm not happy with the output , but if you insist , what can i say :(
<ckontros> Incorrect. Its the size of the SVG. The human ones are SVG but 48x48. (according to kwwii)
<ckontros> Not 128px like ours.
<macvr> i know ... but this shape doesnt come out well even when it is in 48px
<macvr> well i'll just send you the files.. and you decide
<ckontros> Sure
<ckontros> cheese
<ckontros> gah
<macvr> ckontros: actually you already have them... i have sent you the color 48px svg., you can simply add them to the scalable folder and try it out
<ckontros> No. I want them at all sizes.
<macvr> ckontros: ah! :/
<macvr> wait...
<macvr> ckontros: you could just rename the nm-signal and test it out
<ckontros> macvr: Please send me the notify-osd files with all the sizes included. Thank you.
<ckontros> macvr: Also note that kwwii said that what we have there now (just the 48px PNGs) should work without the simlinks. It just looks for 48px SVGs 1st.
<macvr> ckontros: so then no need , for anything else right?
<macvr> ckontros: i just checked it out, it works
<ckontros> Send them in all sizes.
<macvr> ckontros: ;p in a few mins
<ckontros> np. doesn't even need to be today.
<macvr> ckontros: anyway , i'll finish it , today
<macvr> what was it about BZR?
<ckontros> ok
<macvr> ckontros: BZR?
<ckontros> Do you want to learn to be able to upload to the set?
<macvr> ckontros: nope...
<ckontros> macvr: Oh. Then there's no real reason to be on the team since anyone can subscribe to bugs.
<ckontros> That's why I added you.
<macvr> ckontros: hei! you explicitly told me not to upload stuff!
<ckontros> To directly fix icons you've worked on.
<macvr> oh those... ok
<ckontros> So, you'll need a lesson.
<macvr> yup
<macvr> ckontros: right now is fine for me
<ckontros> Ok. Lemmie get some links together. PM
<macvr> ok
<ckontros> Boredom and clippers are never good. http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6940/20090712113753.jpg
<ckontros> macvr: Also just a note: I would prefer you upload big changes rather than lots of small changes. ie: If you have to make changes to the set of nm-* or notify-osd-* icons do them all and upload as a whole.
<macvr> ckontros: i know.... i had change the SSH key , so was just testing if it worked...
<ckontros> np. Just giving you a heads up.
<macvr> ckontros: now my key is>  mac-v@canonical  < hehe
<ckontros> A bit misleading. But whatever.
<macvr> exactly , misleading
<ckontros> To what end?
<macvr> just for fun ;p
<macvr> anyway, i'll dot the rest and upload them tomorrow
<ckontros> k
<macvr> do^
<macvr> ckontros: do you have a different version of the script , which gives out a 128px *PNG*?
<ckontros> no
 * macvr has to create one
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-12
<doctormo> Thoughts on the title page: http://imagebin.ca/view/P8odXf99.html
<Cimi> iainfarrell: could you please poke marianna for prague? I've just sent her an email
<iainfarrell> hey Cimi will do :)
<iainfarrell> not seen her this morning yet
<Cimi> iainfarrell: oh ok ;) don't worry
<Cimi> kwwii: iainfarrell: ivanka: when do you have your flights for prague?
<Guest55472> Hello?
<Guest55472> Anyone?
<kayzzer> Test
<vish> kayzzer: we hear ya!
<Cimi> no one is interested on my question :D
<kwwii> Cimi: I am flying in sunday night and flying out late friay evening
<Cimi> kwwii: I'll arrive the 17th
<Cimi> and leave the 24th morning
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-13
<noobtube> Hello...  anybody here?
<noobtube> how can I change my login theme? I already have the theme from gnome-art, but nowhere does it say how or where to install...
<knome> noobtube, this is not a support channel. please ask in #ubuntu
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-14
<kwwii> morning
<zniavre> good morning
<zniavre> does the new indicator-sound will keep this buttons  (rew/play/forw)  ?
<thorwil> zniavre: i suspect those haven't been added light-heartedly and thus will stay
<zniavre> i hope they are not "hardcoded"
<zniavre> i mean a possible way to change them easily
<thorwil> zniavre: do you have issues with the functionality or just the looks?
<zniavre> just the looks
<thorwil> zniavre: a bit heavy, right? :)
<zniavre> i do not know exactly but i dislike this rounded "stuff"
<vish> morn!
<vish> zniavre, just the man i was looking for!
<vish> zniavre: the disabled items in the menu depend on which item?
<vish> no one other than the two of us uses a dark theme :D
<vish> zniavre: how do i change this > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot.png
<vish> the paste is disabled , but i forgot which controls that! :s
<zniavre> inactive things no N
<zniavre> ?
<vish> zniavre: yeah , the inactive.. but i'v tried everything! and it doesnt change.. :(
<zniavre> ha?
<zniavre> i hav to go sorry (baby sitting ON)
<vish> hmm , i'm using pixmap engine.. maybe thats the fault?
<vish> np..
<zniavre> i do not know pixmap engine
<vish> cool..
<zniavre> inactive > insensitive **
<zniavre> fg[INSENSITIVE]	= darker (@bg_color)  it's for murrine engine
<kwwii> currently the sounds stuff if not themeable
<kwwii> but it will be, to some extent, later on
<vish> yeah , i did the fg-insensitive thingy.. but i'm missing something else :(
<vish> kwwii: hi, any reason the new theme is becoming greyish.. ?
 * vish liked #F0EBE2
<vish> or atleast got used to it ;)
<kwwii> vish: because it was too saturated :-)
<kwwii> vish: but it is too grey now
<kwwii> vish: there will be an update coming very soon
<vish> hehe , now we are too desaturated :D
<vish> or greyscale! ;)
<kwwii> yeah
<vish> neat!
<kwwii> at least for maverick there are no secrets :-)
<zniavre> vish maybe you wrote fg insensitive twice and it should be the same value for both of them ?
<zniavre> as default settings and single widget for menus *
<zniavre> (this channel must be in french, i feel so dumb in english ...)  ^^
<vish> zniavre: hmm , i'm able to change the fg sensitive , but the text behind it , I'm not able to control , its always white
<vish> zniavre: nah , your english isnt bad :)
<vish> oh wait! i got it!
<kwwii> zniavre: your english is quite good
<vish> zniavre: i needed "widget_class "*.<GtkLabel>"   style "inactivetext" "
<vish> that i set it to an engine mist ,and wiped it out :)
<zniavre> is it special pixmap engine ?
<vish> zniavre: nah , you can set it as engine murrine too
<zniavre> a ok
<vish> style "inactivetext"
<vish> {
<vish> engine "murrine"
<vish>  	{
<vish> 	}
<vish> }
<vish> widget_class "*.<GtkLabel>" style "inactivetext"
<vish> zniavre: thats what i have now^ , it took out the secondary text shadow
<kwwii> btw, you can turn the 3D effect on or off as well
<vish> kwwii: how is that?
<vish> the above was how i turned the shadow off..^
<kwwii> ahhh, sorry...I meant you can turn it on for all things
<kwwii> with textstyle=1 as a murrine option
<kwwii> unsetting the insensitive text stuff should turn it off
<vish> cool!
<kwwii> time for a break...bbl
<GreenDotQ> Hi! I'm one of Ubuntu Linux users. I read about artwork in official site, and, i think, i can help community. I work with Photoshop 2 years, and my knowledge in this are good. But in linux i'm new, and i can help only with art..
<GreenDotQ> if you want my help, you can write to me... verts007@inbox.lv
<kwwii> wow, he might have wanted to stay around and actually talk to someone
<thorwil> 0.o
<thorwil> kwwii: i guess there are lots of people out there who share common misconceptions about how all this works. a from their mindset to ours documentation would be interesting, but optimistic as i am, a 1 in a million yield is not worth much effort :)
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, indeed
<kwwii> thorwil: I guess the problem is that everyone thinks they can do art
<kwwii> only people who prove they can code do it, really
<kwwii> I mean, two years experience with photoshop tells me absolutely nothing about what a person can do
<thorwil> kwwii: it makes me afraid of dealing with someone who thinks every problem is a nail (photshop = hammer), actually
<kwwii> true
<kwwii> well, anyone who can really do art is not going to explain their experience by saying "two years with photoshop"
<kwwii> the fact is, photoshop is seen as one of "the" tools to use
<kwwii> but saying I have used a hammer is different than showing the furniture I made with it
<kwwii> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_Artwork_Supplemental_Wallpapers_Submissions
<kwwii> the fedora wallpaper contest
<kopp_> Hi!
<kopp_> I would like to ask how it will look like Ubuntu 10.10
<kopp_> someone?
<kopp_> SOMEONE?
<kopp_> SOMEONE?!
<kopp_> anybody?????
<kopp_> iainfarrell, Hi!
<kopp_> Hi!
<kopp_> anybody?????
<kopp_> SOMEONE?
<knome> !patience | kopp_
<ubot2> kopp_: Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. You can search https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org while you wait.
<knome> in this case, nobody probably just isn't here.
<vish> knome: lmao!
<vish> we  need nobody!
<knome> hmm
<kopp_> I would like to ask how it will look like Ubuntu 10.10?
<vish> kopp_: not sure it the design team gives an exemption for you , but the usual state of affairs is: when the design is ready it will be shown to all
<vish> so , there are normally no sneak previews / promos / teasers :)
<kopp_> I see
<kopp_> Very interested in how it will look 10.10
<vish> kopp_: me too . :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-15
<thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/07/15/ubuntu-remix-italiano-customization-kit-mini-remix/
<vish> pfff, thorwil and his world of remixes!
<vish> ;p
<vish> thorwil: now you made it difficult for the Italian loco to choose a logo  ;)
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> working with the italian colors was surprisingly difficult. white stands out, doesn't really pair with the others, red and green should be kept separated to avoid the harsh contrast
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-16
<zniavre> haha the cursor hiding is tricky
<zniavre> im mean... i hope it's a feature   :o)
<zniavre> im>i*
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-17
<thorwil> takes the price for most sensible wiki editing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds?action=diff&rev1=164&rev2=165
 * thorwil goes to roll that back
<thorwil> hi vish. so today i stopped monitoring the Artwork area of the wiki
<vish> thorwil: oh! why?
<thorwil> vish: it just became annoying and the content not interesting anymore
<vish> thorwil: heh , yeah , today i almost wanted to yell at the artwork ML..
<vish> then I stopped myself! :/
<vish> when someone has done something , the replies are so stupid about the boot not being 10secs for someone
<thorwil> vish: i'm close to unsubscribing there
<vish> "my boot is much slower"
<vish> was ridiculous. :/
<thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/07/17/ubuntu-brainstorm-reloaded/
<doctormo> thorwil: I liked the lightbulb version with both bold non-em. The pointy ones remind me of the community logo.
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-18
<patx> when will the font in the logo be released?
<patx> to the public
<thorwil> patx: i think i saw something about early in august
<patx> thorwil, i got http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ would it be in there?
<thorwil> patx: how would i know and can't you just have some patience and see? ;)
<patx> just downloaded -> http://www.mediafire.com/?qnewnnrn1tg
<thorwil> patx: i would hope you respect the wishes of the creators and stakeholders and just wait for the final version. at least don't further distribute what shouldn't be out there
<patx> im not gunna distribute it
<patx> its not gunna leave my computer
<thorwil> good
<patx> :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-07-11
<coz_>  good day all
<Cheesehead> Greetings
<Cheesehead> Looking for an Artwork Team opinion on a Brainstorm Idea
<Cheesehead> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/28255/
<Cheesehead> Has this ever been discussed before?
<Cheesehead> Is there a known answer to the issue?
<Cheesehead> Or is it worth voting on?
<Cheesehead> anyone?
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-07-12
<Cheesehead> Last call: Has the issue in Brainstorm Idea http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/28255/ been discussed by the Artwork Team before, or is it okay to approve for voting?
<Cheesehead> Okay, approving the idea for voting.
<Cheesehead> Anyone is welcome to comment and vote on the idea now.
 * Cheesehead goes back to Brainstorm
<Islington> doctormo: hey
<etneg> anyone awake
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-07-13
* vish changed the topic of #ubuntu-artwork to: Channel for Community Artwork Team: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork | Ubuntu Brand Identity Guidelines are available at: http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/ | Contests for Oneiric cycle OPEN Â» http://design.canonical.com/2011/07/get-excited-and-make-things-wallpaper-edition/
* vish changed the topic of #ubuntu-artwork to: Channel for Community Artwork Team: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork | Ubuntu Brand Identity Guidelines are available at: http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/ | Ubuntu Orange is #dd4814/ | Contests for Oneiric cycle OPEN Â» http://design.canonical.com/2011/07/get-excited-and-make-things-wallpaper-edition/
<troy_s> Wow.
<troy_s> The Ubuntu Art mailing list is a train wreck I cannot turn away from.
<troy_s> It is perhaps the most dark, macabre, and fascinating display of group dynamics and culture I have ever had the pleasure of seeing.
<troy_s> Really fantastic stuff. Perhaps not in the manner desired, but absolutely fascinating nonetheless.
<troy_s> vish: I found your commentary regarding the icon set very on point. Hobgoblin's consistency.
<etneg> antone awake
<troy_s> etneg: Antone perhaps not, but anyone yes.
<etneg> i wsa hoping someone could digitally color a few logos for me
<etneg> its for ubuntu ensemble
<etneg> some guy offered to help me here before i f it had to do with ubuntu stuff
<etneg> but he's gone missing:/
<troy_s> etneg: "Some guy" is your first mistake. Figure out whom.
<troy_s> etneg: That's where I'd start.
<etneg> he was around but was unresponsive then
<etneg> oh well
<troy_s> etneg: If it is a project that requires art and design elements
<troy_s> etneg: The best thing you can do is to not treat it as an after-the-fact component of the project.
<troy_s> etneg: And try to get someone to become a participant. A sort of sabdfl of the art and design elements.
<troy_s> etneg: That minor step can have a tremendous impact on a project.
<etneg> man i have it on the bugs report list
<etneg> and so on
<etneg> nobody to color it yet
<troy_s> etneg: It isn't about color.
<troy_s> etneg: Trust me on this.
<etneg> what are you talking about then
<troy_s> etneg: Chances are if your project doesn't have an abddfl (appointed benign design dictator for life) you are already soaking in a mess.
<troy_s> etneg: If you have _anything_ that faces outward and toward an audience and you _do not_ have someone that cares about art and design around, you are already sunk.
<etneg> wtf
<etneg> are you trolling me?
<troy_s> etneg: Yes I'm trolling you. Ciao. *sigh*
<etneg> sigh
<troy_s> etneg: May I ask what the project is and see where you require something to be colored?
<etneg> ensemble
<etneg> i did a few logos for them but havent received anyone to color it
<troy_s> etneg: Sorry don't speak the code.
<troy_s> etneg: No clue what ensemble is.
<etneg>  https://launchpad.net/bugs/807100
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 807100 in ubuntu-branding "Develop Ensemble logo (ensemble.ubuntu.com)" [Undecided,In progress]
<etneg> oops
<etneg> well yeah
<etneg> that should do it
<etneg> it'll give you an idea
<troy_s> etneg: Does ensemble have an art / design lead?
<etneg> wait are you trying to help me
<etneg> with coloring it
<troy_s> etneg: Wait yes.
<etneg> oh ok
<etneg> they dont have a design team lead for ensemble
<etneg> they just wanted a logo and i offered my services
<troy_s> etneg: And where are the links to your work?
<etneg> i just posted the link to you
<etneg> in te bugs list
<troy_s> etneg: So those are _your_ sketches?
<etneg> the first post you can see  afew i did
<etneg> yes
<etneg> except   http://ubuntuone.com/p/13yI/ i didnt do that
<etneg> and in the bottom i posted another
<etneg> Abi R is me
<etneg> sladen posted some of my sketches there
<troy_s> etneg: So you are capable with the pastel, but you are having issues with getting an SVG or something colored?
<troy_s> etneg: Because if it is your work, I'd encourage you to perhaps color it yourself. You are likely the only one that will give it the attention you desire.
<etneg> digital painting is what i have issues with
<etneg> i dont hve a  tablet or anything
<etneg> so out of luck
<etneg> the coloring i did for those are just samples
<etneg> its not suposed to colored like that
<troy_s> etneg: Hmm. Have you tried leveraging tracing until you get a tablet?
<etneg> but if someone takes up the coloring initiative i can guide them about the palette
<troy_s> etneg: Solid line work, scanned, and traced, can often get you to where you need.
<etneg> there's ways to learn it but i dont think i ever will
<etneg> no intention of doing digital painting
<troy_s> etneg: Then I fear you are probably going to be met with similar success.
<etneg> i thought you offered to color it?
<coz_> etneg,  i agree,, you need to put your mind to at least inkscape for vector graphics
<troy_s> etneg: No. I offered to try and see if there was a means to resolve the issue.
<coz_> troy_s,  hey guy
<troy_s> coz_: Greets cozziemoto
<troy_s> ERKG
<troy_s> Is cozziemoto you too coz_?
<etneg> but you havent really tried to resolve it
<coz_> troy_s,  yeah that's my other machine for scrollback :)
<etneg> nothing is resolved in art by talking
<etneg> that works best in mphilosophy
<etneg> :D
<etneg> hey coz_
<troy_s> etneg: Thanks for your illumination.
<troy_s> etneg: But in plain terms
<etneg> coz_: the guy who did tohse skethces?
<troy_s> etneg: You are unlikely to find someone that is capable _and_ willing to color in someone else's work.
<etneg> troy_s: you're generalizing way too much here
<troy_s> etneg: Sure I am.
<etneg> open source is community driven
<coz_> etneg,  tohse sketches?   not sure  , several people are using my work for different things,, do you have a link?
<etneg> and thre are people who do color MY work
<troy_s> etneg: Example?
<etneg> just not on tihs occasion because they dont work for ubuntu and work for other distributions
<troy_s> etneg: Right. Sample?
<coz_> etneg, oh the figure sketches ,, yes
<etneg> no sample now
<etneg> sorry
<etneg> coz_: ye
<troy_s> etneg: Indeed.
<etneg> coz_: you any good with coloring?
<troy_s> LOL
<etneg> coz_: i did some rough concepts for ensemble
<etneg> troy_s: indeed what?
<troy_s> etneg: It was a case in point that eluded you.
<coz_> etneg,  well  I can be,, however  may I ask why you dont want to look into inkscape?
<etneg> you hyavent made any case at all
<etneg> coz_: lack of time and fear of moving away from pencil to digital painting
<etneg> coz_: i need to get those colored asap, they have just one design thats digitized by one of the server lead members there
<coz_> etneg,  let go of the fear,,, inkscape can be quite remarkable once you get used to the "vocaulary"  of the tools
<etneg> and have no more options, mine re still in pencil
<etneg> so
<coz_> etneg,  let me see the link again
<etneg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-branding/+bug/807100
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 807100 in ubuntu-branding "Develop Ensemble logo (ensemble.ubuntu.com)" [Undecided,In progress]
<etneg> sladen posted some of my links on the first post
<coz_> etneg,  5 images?
<etneg> and at the bottom i 3 new ones
<etneg> na na
<etneg> you dont have to do all 5
<etneg> we just need to do atlast 2 images
<etneg> so they have more options on the table
<etneg> right now their only option is to go with http://ubuntuone.com/p/148u/
<thorwil> those sketches need more than just coloring
<etneg> but since mine arent  colored, i tihnk they'd just go with the oxygen atom idea
<etneg> thorwil: what more?
<etneg> well it needs to be digitally painted of course
<thorwil> no point in doing it, before you have precise and clean lines
<etneg> and why cant that be achieved on inkscape
<etneg> you can get all the cleanlines right there using the sketch as a reference
<thorwil> it's easier to do on paper
<etneg> run over it!
<etneg> what precise clean line are you referring to though
<etneg> if you're interested in coloring one of them, tell me and i can redraw it
<thorwil> tracing is not enough. those are fine sketches, but rough.
<etneg> yes it was just for a concept
<etneg> but if you're interested in coloring one of them, tell me
<etneg> so i can draw it out more clearly
<thorwil> etneg: i have no time to do work on other people's art. but in any case, the linework is not in the shape it should be in
<etneg> heh
<etneg> it is a concept
<etneg> if somoene picks up the concept and wishes to color it, i redraw most of it so they get a better idea
<etneg> as far as precision goes, i dont think i cared about it for a concept sketch
<etneg> thorwil: http://i52.tinypic.com/t62vzl.jpg
<etneg> what about that?
<thorwil> i think you can drop the E boxes, as i'm pretty sure something very much like that has been done already
<etneg> is that decent linework to color?
<etneg> i did more than E boxes
<etneg> and the E boxes are better seen if colored
<etneg> from a pencil point of view, you cant tell what it is going to be but ok
<etneg> so the E boxes are done a lot vs http://ubuntuone.com/p/148u/
<etneg> that?
<etneg> the oxygen atom idea hasnt been done but thats ok by you?
<etneg> leave all that
<etneg> just to get an idea about the precision you're talking about in linework
<etneg> http://i52.tinypic.com/t62vzl.jpg would you color that?
<thorwil> the atom idea is less likely to end up being a trademark infringement
<etneg> lol
<etneg> trademark infringement is not a concern. i think anyone can evade that
<etneg> the point you were making was to have a d esign that was not done a lot
<etneg> and the oxygen atom idea is no different to a bunch of E boxes
<thorwil> the last time i colored someone else's lines was in secondary school.
<etneg> thats nice
<etneg> but is the linework good enough there do digitallly paint it?
<etneg> s/do/to/
<thorwil> that depends on the feel you want to end up with
<etneg> well is the linework good enough?
<etneg> thats all i'd ;like to know
<etneg> i mean that sketch goes straight for digital coloring, nothing more is done on it, is it clear enough or not clear enough for one to digitally paint it?
<coz_> etneg, looking at the one image with the rounded lower case "e"  and people on it with clouds around,, the elements are there,,, they would have to be redone in inkscape,,, a tracing of that image wouldnt do it justice, however,, it is going to take on the feel of the person recreatin git
<coz_> recreating it
<etneg> coz_: i liked that one too but i dunno
<etneg> simple and to the point is what i thought
<etneg> not too many elements either
<etneg> the E i wanted it like cable wire, that sort of a texture
<etneg> but are you interested in coloring that?
<coz_> etneg,  it would take more than colouring it,, it has to be essentially recreated in one of the applications
<troy_s> David Airey it is not.
<etneg> yes it has to be imported
<coz_> etneg,  more than imported ,, well. at least on inkscape it would have to be re created in vector
<etneg> but if you need more clarity or something in the drawing i could redraw it
<coz_> etneg,  i suppost it could be brought into gimp and carefully coloured ,,
<coz_> I havent used gimp in months
<etneg> ah ok
<coz_> etneg,  you mentioned you have had people colour your work before,,, have you asked them again ...yes?
<etneg> well they wont do it for ubuntu
<etneg> heh
<etneg> same way ubuntu folks wont do it for them
<etneg> time factor
<etneg> soo
<etneg> either way  i think im done
<etneg> they're gonna go with the oxygen atom idea
<etneg> nobody to color mine so
 * etneg moves on
<etneg> thanks anyhow coz_
<coz_> etneg,  oh i see
<coz_> etneg,  I am not particular keen on that oxygen atom concept
<etneg> it's kinda sad though they have no options
<etneg> the oxygen atom idea is sooooooooooo cliche
<etneg> ye
<etneg> i theink they just want a quick logo and dont wish to drag it anymore
<coz_> etneg,  that's just lazy then
<etneg> so i told them quits and left it at that, and the lead guy for ensemble kim0 is ok with the oxygen idea
<etneg> so i guess whatever works for them
<coz_> etneg,  I downloaded those images,, I may play with them,, if it works out I will let you know if you are in t his channel
<etneg> sure i'm idling here these days
<etneg> if you can do it today , would help or latest by tommorrow
<etneg> i think any later and it would be pointless
<etneg> just told kim0 you might take a look into it
<etneg> and if i dont update by tommorrow to go ahead with the oxygen idea
<coz_> etneg,  well .. it would take longer than that ... I would have to work through a few ideas,,, test them ,, render them,, etc
<coz_> etneg,  its likely I cant do this in time,, I am in the middle of creating 3d animated models for compiz right now
<thorwil> doctormo: regarding http://doctormo.org/2011/07/13/i-had-the-idea-of-using-javascript-instead/ , shouldn't the first question be if either js or python is better suited for this particular job?
<thorwil> while a lot of people might *know* some js for web stuff, in many cases the knowledge will be limited to some simple jquery stuff, i guess
<thorwil> in general, it seems whyt js has to offer over python is noisy syntax :)
<Ronnie1> i agree with thorwil that writing good javascript may be more difficult than good pyton. But the project can catch more interest is programmers can start in js
<etneg> cozziemoto:
<etneg> ok
<etneg> np
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-07-14
<etneg> hey coz_
<etneg> any luck?
<coz_> etneg,  no  I am still working on the 3d models ,,,sorry
<coz_> etneg,  these models take hours to do,, they have to be modeled then animated
<coz_> I am having issues with the butterfly swarm and its rendering in the compiz cube model plugin right now
<coz_> it takes me longer because I am definitly ont a 3d animator :(
<coz_> definitly "not"
<etneg> ah ok
<etneg> np
<etneg> i think i scrapped the iea
<etneg> let them go with the weird nuclear reactor logo
<etneg> :D
<etneg> k i guess i'll leave this place. there isn't much activity and i dont think i have much to offer to ubuntu at this point
<etneg> later coz_
<coz_> geez  I dont know how I could fit that into my schedule,, I feel bad but   hey
<troy_s> coz_: Greets.
<troy_s> vish: Hello vishy.
<coz_> troy_s,  hey guy
<troy_s> coz_: It doesn't look like you were getting PMs the other day.
<coz_> troy_s,  I dont think I did,, why/ did you pm me?
<troy_s> coz_: No reason in particular. It just seemed odd that you weren't responding.
<coz_> troy_s,  oh could be I have so many tabs on xcaht I didnt see it ...apologies
<coz_> xchat
<troy_s> coz_: XChat? You nerd.
<troy_s> lol
<coz_> troy_s,  lol...yes xchat ,, for years now,, cant let go of it :)
<tsimpson> I usually find it pretty easy to see them in xchat, as they're all put at the bottom of the list
<troy_s> tsimpson: Shush. It's coz_. He can barely see 20 pixels around a letter at a time. Sheesh.
<coz_> tsimpson,  I have tabs set for channels,, and 2 servers running with 12 channels totoal
<coz_> lol
<tsimpson> meh, call me when you're at 71 (which is apparently what I have open)
<coz_> yikes
<coz_> then I apparenlty have no exuses
<coz_> excuses
<coz_> or proper spelling skills
<tsimpson> it does take xchat over 5 mins to sync to all the channels when I start it up though, so I wouldn't recommend that many :)
<coz_> tsimpson,  that I can understand,, even with my 12 channels it takes a while
<coz_> applolgies anyway troy_s  for not seeing the PM,, was this about the colouring thingy yesterday?
<troy_s> coz_: May have been.
<troy_s> tsimpson: When you have 71 windows monitored, you are supposed to be getting paid. Significantly.
<coz_> troy_s,  I couldnt make time for that colouring project,,  I am trying to figure out why some my animated 3d models dont render properly in compiz
<tsimpson> troy_s: feel free to donate :p
<coz_> tsimpson,  I dont think i would want to do that amount of support ,, I am assuming many of those are support channels
<coz_> not "free" anyway
<tsimpson> coz_: lots are, lots are just channels that I keep an eye on as a member of the IRC council
<coz_> ah ok
<coz_> tsimpson,  I find a few support channels are enough for me plus one or two "venting"  channels and one or two  observing ones is all I can handle
<tsimpson> you learn to override the desire to look at a channel just because it has activity ;)
<coz_> :)
<coz_> i understand that,, this channel , however, when it is acti
<coz_> active  i tend to jump to it
<coz_> simply because it is generally inactive :)
<coz_> I feel bad for that etneg guy who wanted his drawings coloured digitally,, i just dont have the time,,, and really I think he should be looking into at the very least Gimp
<tsimpson> I eventually get around to looking at the channels, I just don't jump on them
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-07-15
<vish> looks like a lot of folks are registered here Â» http://www.elance.com/
<coz_> vish,  mm  that looks interesting
<vish> troy_s: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/5940406445
<troy_s> erp
<troy_s> vish: *sigh*
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-07-16
<Islington> does anybody else really dislike drive-by contributions on the list
<thorwil> Islington: i'm surprised there is such a thing on happening on the list
<thorwil> Islington: or do you count mere words as contributions, too?
<Islington> at this point I count anything as a contribution
<Islington> also thorwil these aren't real drive-by either they are all mushroom spores popping up after the rain of Iain's "wallpaper contest is open" posting.
<thorwil> heh, jbaer really had to add some fluff/repetition to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Backgrounds
<Islington> I shared this with doctormo already thorwil but did I show you this?
<Islington> http://wstaw.org/m/2011/07/16/plasma-desktopa14958.jpg
<Islington> the wall
<thorwil> Islington: since i think we had no exchange in months ...
<Islington> I need to hook up all the little circles, but the plan is that with doctormo script the circles will shift in x/y direction over time
<Islington> thorwil: sorry I thought you were on g+
<thorwil> i'm not social, so i'm on no such network ;)
<thorwil> Islington: seems brutal in it's simplicity, harsh edges and lack of a composition other than somewhat even distribution
<Islington> and indeed here we end up at the question I have been playing with, should the initial arragement have a coherent compostion if over time it will morph into some even more random?
<Islington> because to me that indicates decay rather than transformation
<Islington> it should be like a dream flexible, moldable
<thorwil> a rotting corpse wallpaper would be so awesome
<Islington> lol
<thorwil> maybe you can make it so it stays away from even distribution and behaves more like cloud formations, allowing the viewer to see shapes?
<Islington> hmm, I was actually gonna go with a strict square concentrated geometric pattern, and let the doctormo's formula shift them over time; more like a seed
<Islington> also thorwil you should get on g+ so that you can see exciting shares like this:https://plus.google.com/108481884885447424787/posts/V6Ny4AhhK99
<thorwil> maybe i will at some point, but currently it's too much of a risk to push the things i should be doing even further out :)
<coz_> hey all
<vish> thorwil: the jbaer additions are from Fedora guidelines ;)
<vish> he really missed his chance.. if he had behaved well last cycle, Iain et al might have let him take charge of the contest this time..
<thorwil> vish: yeah, i had a brief look at the list archive. i guess Iain already regrets taking the wallpaper thing to the list
<vish> lol!
<thorwil> and those barely half-literate kids make me glad about my decision
<coz_> thorwil,  which decision what that?  sorry I wasnt following closely enough:(
<thorwil> coz_: i sense a pattern here ;)  saying goodbye/unsubscribing
<coz_> thorwil,  I cant seems to leave,,, it keeps drawing me back :)
