#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-22
<kwwii> and nobody can stop them (I tried)
<andreasn> what? for play buttons and normal stuff?
<kwwii> for everything
<kwwii> well, everything in amarok
<andreasn> aarrgh!
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> oh, we even sent official mails asking them to stop and they said no
<andreasn> what if I have problems with my eyes and need some high-contrast-stuff?
<andreasn> does amarok-devs hate people with seeing disorder?
<kwwii> well, if you change the theme, then it will still change
<kwwii> basically they are adding another defualt for amarok before the rest of the kde icon stuff
<kwwii> but somehow it changes when you change themes
<andreasn> like with magic?
<kwwii> dude, half of amarok is magic I think
<andreasn> heh
<kwwii> ever hear the story how they made the nifty wave motion for the eq when you start it?
<kwwii> it was a bug
<kwwii> so they kept it
<andreasn> hahaha
<andreasn> sounds like coding demo-scene demos to me
<kwwii> yeah
<kwwii> I am always amazed at how well it works 
<andreasn> have you tried sending off a mail to the xdg-list about the icon issue? someone over there must have a clue about how it should work
<andreasn> because I'm really interested in the issue
<kwwii> to be honest, since I stopped working for suse I have tried to stay away from conflict with my ex-colleagues
<andreasn> do you think it would be a conflict? I mean, it's just a question how it's supposed to work
<kwwii> oh, I am pretty sure it will be because it is an issue of tango and how that relates to the kde desktop in suse
<andreasn> hm, ok
<kwwii> all of my old friends are pretty much disliking their jobs now and simply want the easiest way out so they can do their job without a fight
<kwwii> eventually I will
<kwwii> when my stomach tells me to :-)
<andreasn> :)
<andreasn> interesting how much debate the whole issue has created
<andreasn> it's just icons
<kwwii> yeah, no shit
<kwwii> I will go along with anything as long as we do not force anyone to use one kind of artwork or another
<kwwii> :-)
<andreasn> forcing stuff on people sound offencive
<andreasn> but I agree
<kwwii> hehe, see I just got another mail about this stuff
<kwwii> the discussion will never end
<andreasn> man, it would be really cool to have a free desktop artists meeting at some point
<andreasn> meet some people in the community and stuff
<kwwii> I really wanted to make it to the libre graphic meeting but simply coudn't
<andreasn> yeah, I know
<andreasn> it was nice
<kwwii> I spend like two weeks a month away from home now
<kwwii> and theoretically I do not even have a job
<andreasn> kwwii: did you mean this - http://lists.suse.com/archive/suse-kde/2006-May/0001.html ?
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> never saw that before
<kwwii> I was just kinda assuming it would be like that
<kwwii> I does make me feel good though :-)
<andreasn> crazy discussion
<andreasn> why is that?
<kwwii> not so crazy really
<kwwii> well, I did all the artwork at suse for 7 years (ie. kde)
<kwwii> and now I am gone
<kwwii> and they can try to sell kde with gnome icons
<kwwii> the whole point of this is to devalue kde and suse so the novell can sell gnome
<kwwii> totally bullshit
<kwwii> I had bosses telling me "we simply need to get rid of the suse customers so that we can sell novell linux"
<kwwii> I wish them all the luck in the world, thanks be to god I do not have to whore myself
<andreasn> with icons that are a mix of g-i-t and crystal, hm
<kwwii> if they would at least do it 100% it would not be soo bad
<kwwii> but if they do that they can simply remove kde as well
<andreasn> you mean mixing the styles fully, or implenting the style fully?
<kwwii> implement the style fully
<kwwii> desktop choice in linux is still a religion
<andreasn> yeah, I noticed
<andreasn> I'm more like that I care little about the desktops, and more about the apps
<kwwii> I just want things to look nice
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> and work well
<andreasn> yeah
<andreasn> well, I hope the whole toolkit-nazism sorts out some time in the future, but I'll probably have to wait a couple of more years for that ;)
<andreasn> need to hit bed now
<andreasn> been nice chatting to you
<andreasn> night all!
<kwwii> see you soon
<kwwii> sleept well
<andreasn> thanks
<andreasn> you too
<kwwii> ok...night all
<kwwii> bis morgen
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:omeg] : Ubuntu Artwork | What's going on? - Dapper usplash proposals: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Usplash/DapperPropositions
<omeg> arrrgh
<omeg> Just as I finish all my new propositions, someone posts that we must include sample text and OK/FAIL colors.
<omeg> !@#$!@#$
<omeg> Well, major update from my part
<omeg> Waiting for the page to save
<omeg> Does Viper550 visit this channel under a different name?
<omeg> Does anyone even look at this channel at all? :)
<jimmac> I'm lurking all the time :)
<omeg> Yeah, I think that this is the first time I've actually seen you talk
<omeg> How are you?
<omeg> Tsh, those lurkers. They say something and then they're gone. I had a friend once, but then he became a lurker, too. Never heard of him again.
<kwwii> omeg: I do not think you need to post the edited pic, just the colors to show what they could/would be
<omeg> Maybe.
<omeg> Making pixel fonts is so incredibly boring.
<kwwii> I admit we are going somewhat over the top for one pic
<kwwii> artwork by commitee rarely works
<omeg> Well, it is still the one screen that millions of people will see during startup...
<kwwii> that is true
<kwwii> but I know that making the kubuntu splash was a lot less work :-)
<omeg> Was it? I wasn't around then, I think.
<omeg> I only followed the mailing list occasionally until now.
<omeg> Well, now that I've put so much effort in that stupid pic, I sure hope mine does get accepted...
<kwwii> I mean the one for dapper...it has been done for months
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> I can imagine
<omeg> 12th letter of the capitals done...
<omeg> Wooh, all capitals done.
<omeg> Fastest pixel font I've ever made. Now 30 minutes break and then to do lowercase...
<kwwii> how are you making it?
<jimmac> omeg: doing fine :) don't let those chennel lurkers annoy you
<omeg> kwwii: xmbdfed
<omeg> Also, back, and back to work...
<kwwii> omeg: cool, have fun...making a font is a lot of work
<kwwii> that is pretty impressive
<omeg> Nah, anyone can make a pixel font in a short time.
<omeg> Vector fonts take time, though.
<omeg> My friend who works as pixel artist at a mobile phone gaming company said she made like 30 pixel fonts in one week, at one time. Only 2 were accepted. :P
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> well, making a true type font, with hinting, etc is not sooo easy
<omeg> I wish it was
<kwwii> the ubuntu-title font needs a lot of work
<omeg> Yeah, it has some kerning issues and it doesn't have any capitals.
<kwwii> I noticed the kerning issues
<kwwii> are you doing this "for fun"?
<omeg> Now for some final tweaking...
<omeg> Well, I'm going to send it to an Ubuntu dev who wanted to have a look at a new font for usplash. Whether it's for Dapper or Edgy, I don't know. I'm more than glad to submit one since I think the current usplash font is appaling.
<omeg> There will probably be some kind of vote about that later if it's still for Dapper.
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> I see that voting is pretty popular 
<omeg> Well, I've finished the font, and it seems to work, but I can only open BDF fonts in xmbdfed.
<omeg> Want to help me test it?
<kwwii> erm, what does that mean to my system? :-)
<kwwii> watching a football match at the moment :-)
<omeg> Arsenal - Barcelona?
<kwwii> yepp
<omeg> I was watching it until I decided to come back here to finish this thing :P
<omeg> I guess I'll just upload it so others can test it later and go back to watching
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> I keep running back and forth
<omeg> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/new/Usplash_Mono.bdf
<omeg> Whoever can test it, please do and give feedback if you have any. :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-23
<kwwii> night all
<Who_> Has anyone got any more thoughts about the voting
<Who_> given the problems we're having with Launchpad, shall we start up Billy's forum again?
<Who_> Scratch that, kiko (#launchpad) will do it for us sometime soon
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-24
<nysosym> Hi all :)
<andreasn> hello
<nysosym> oohhh Hi :)
<nysosym> How are you?
<andreasn> just fine
<andreasn> drawing stuff
<nysosym> yes what are you doing? :)
<andreasn> some new icons for inkscape
<nysosym> ohh very cool, can i have a preview please? :)
<andreasn> I can upload a mockup if you want to
<andreasn> here is ertz stuff: http://www.vybiral.info/inkscape-tango.jpg
<andreasn> we're working on it together
<nysosym> ohhh i love it, very nice!!! Respect!!! :)
<nysosym> Will these icons come in Dapper?
<andreasn> well, dapper is in feature-freeze right now
<andreasn> we need to send them off to the inkscape-devs first
<nysosym> these isn`t a feature, this is amazing! :D
<andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/inkscape-tangofication.png
<andreasn> some of the other ones
<andreasn> far from complete
<andreasn> what are you up to then?
<nysosym> yes, but my favorite is your style, small and beautyfull :)
<andreasn> oh, it's going to be the same theme
<andreasn> we're working together on it
<nysosym> ohhh sry my mistake :(
<andreasn> no worry
<nysosym> thx :)
<nysosym> worked you although on Dapper Icons?
<andreasn> huh?
<andreasn> if I worked on the dapper icons?
<andreasn> yeah, the tangerine-set
<andreasn> and the tango-common package
<nysosym> cool, which program do you use?
<nysosym> everything with INkscape?
<andreasn> yep, and some gimp
<nysosym> i will use inkscape too, but it crashs very often :(
<nysosym> brb
<jak08> kon'tchi wa
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-25
<kwwii> evening
<jak08> hello
<kwwii> hi jak08
<kwwii> not many people here tonight
<jak08> is there ever?
<kwwii> the weekend drove away the thoughts of the usplash
<kwwii> oh, last week around this time it was banging
<kwwii> well, maybe a few days ago, not last week
<jak08> I don't pay enough attention to this one as I should, because most of the time it is dead scielnt
<jak08> so is that the main concern with the release so near?
<kwwii> well, I am kinda new to this forum, but it seems so
<kwwii> that and the icons
<kwwii> how orange they should be :-)
<jak08> well, i think the icons always are
<jak08> yep
<kwwii> as a kde-oriented person it is kinda interesting for me
<kwwii> I think I have formed a clear distinction between gnome and kde art
<kwwii> on a techinical level, I mean
<kwwii> erm, technical
<kwwii> I give up spelling for tonight
<kwwii> too late here
<jak08> really what time is that?
<kwwii> 1:18
<kwwii> germany
<jak08> wow thats cool, so I have noticed that a lot of the opensource stuff comes out of germany why is that do you think?
<kwwii> well, I guess because the desktop movement for linux was kinda born in germany
<kwwii> I myself am American
<kwwii> I just live here
<kwwii> :-)
<jak08> ahh,
<jak08> I wish I could live in Japan, I love that country
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> can you speak japanese?
<jak08> only very little, and by that I mean very little, But I have been tring to teach myself
<kwwii> when I was at college I took 5 years of chinese
<kwwii> but I cannot speak much anymore
<kwwii> move to a country and speak the language every day, then you will learn it
<jak08> ahh, I bet that was fun all what is it like 3,000 characters or is it a lot more?
<jak08> i think it takes 6 months for that
<kwwii> it is incredibly hard to speak, and really being able to write what you think is almost impossible
<jak08> oh i can imagine, it seems that the asian languages are a lot more difficult than the european ones, i wonder why the evolved that way
<kwwii> there are studies on how the physical form of the mouth and such can speak languages
<kwwii> it is quite interesting
<jak08> yea i know that the asian languages use a few different sounds that are pressent in english
<jak08> I have done a little of the study on linguistics but not much
<kwwii> german seems to be one of the languages which encompasses most of the sounds made by the human mouth
<kwwii> french is one of the worse one
<kwwii> ones
<jak08> 59 different sounds, i actually have the chart right by me
<kwwii> hehe :-)
<jak08> i have even started making one of my own languages, named hippicus, i can't seem to remember where i put my binder containing the information on it so i can't really give you much of an example because i haven't worked on it on a couple of months and have forgotten it
<jak08> so . . . 
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> time for me to hit the hay
<kwwii> 1:35
<jak08> ok bye
<kwwii> see you :-)
<Madpilot> klepas, where did the Ubuntu palette info you used come from? The stuff on the left of this: http://klepas.org/temp/ubuntu/ubuntu-doc-cover-front.png
<klepas> Madpilot: i've had it for a while... i can't remember where i got it from...
<klepas> Madpilot: actually, it might have been Andy Fitzsimon.. :)
<Madpilot> thanks - I've had a good look around the wiki, can't find anything like it now.
<klepas> yea
<klepas> by the way, i have a horrible feeling i used Tango colours for that design
<Madpilot> there's a link in one of the icon building pages that might be it, but it 404s... bleh
<klepas> i can't quite recal
<klepas> would you like the SVG of that palette?
<Madpilot> ah. that might be why I can't quite match any of the Ubuntu palette colours to the tan you used
<Madpilot> I've got the SVG off your site, actually
<Madpilot> or does the palette image have more information on it?
<klepas> i'm pretty horrible with usernames, Madpilot, you designed that other (awesome) cover, right?
<klepas> that is the full palette there
<Madpilot> the tan & orange one
<klepas> yea...
<Madpilot> I've been messing with my designs: latest Ubuntu DG cover idea: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14326
<nysosym> hi andreasn  :)
<andreasn> hey nysosym
<nysosym> brb
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-26
<viller> hi
<nysosym> hi all :D
<nysosym> any news?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-27
<Meyer_> heya.. anyone alive?
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<lapo> hi
<viper550> Hello~
<viper550> So, how we all doing today?
<viper550> Hello!
<viper550> You concerned about how long we've gone without artwork decisions?
<heno> viper550: for the simple reason that we have to package the stuff tomorrow
<viper550> Yeah, that is a HUGE problem
<heno> the release candidate ships Thursdays, which mean we upload on Wednesday 
<viper550> We might be voting tonight, here on IRC
<heno> facts of life ...
<heno> er, we have a voting system set up now. What's wrong with that?
<viper550> where is it? is it that email one? or is it the Launchpad one THAT STILL ISN'T SET UP?
<heno> viper550: the email one
<viper550> yeah, that one! I voted on that
<heno> ok, so all is well :)
<viper550> (if you wonder, I voted for my Tangerine usplash artwork that has been all the rage
<heno> cool
<viper550> Think that one should win?
<viper550> You wanna know a big shocker about my Linux computer?
<viper550> I'll tell you a not-so-secret: I don't use Ubuntu anymore
<pirast> lol.. 
<pirast> heno, the voting system is okay for me :-)
<heno> pirast: thanks. It's very improvised, but we are in a time crunch, so ...
<pirast> heno: yup, i know. it's hard to make everyone happy in such a short time
<pirast> will you count by hand? hehe
<heno> pirast: well, I don't expect I'll be getting thousands, so yes
<pirast> okay ;-)
<mgalvin> hmm, why are the desktop images stored as /usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-* in ubuntu-artwork?
<lapo> hi
<poningru> LEAVE THE ICONS ALONE
<lapo> uhm?
<kwwii> hrm?
<kwwii> funky
<lapo> I'm not going to leave the icons alone! :-)
<poningru> eh sorry about the certain shouting that took place
<poningru> it was a friend simply telling my feelings
<lapo> hi
<wasabi> Oh. Didn't know about here.
<wasabi> Anybody selling circle ubuntu logo stickers/
<wasabi> No text.
<wasabi> Heh. Wonder if the splash screen can be made to animate, like OS X.
<wasabi> If so, simple rotating logo. Nothing else.
<aphorism> who lives?
<aphorism> .
<Madpilot> hi all
<troy_s> greetz
<troy_s> is there anyone else alive in here?
<troy_s> apparently not.
<nysosym> good morning :D
<Madpilot> hi
<nysosym> hi Madpilot how are u? :)
<Madpilot> good
<nysosym> nice :)
<nysosym> any news about artworks? :D
<Madpilot> are you on the artwork mailing list?
<nysosym> hmm no sry :-/
<nysosym> but a short summary where really nice :)
<Madpilot> short summary: stuff is being packaged for Dapper as we speak.
<nysosym> ahh okay, are u a developer or Designer? :)
<Madpilot> for artwork, neither, I'm mostly a spectator
<nysosym> i`m too :D
<nysosym> will be there a new GDM Theme in Dapper?
<Madpilot> I think so
<nysosym> very good :)
<Madpilot> new icons & desktop themes too
<lapo> hi
<troy_s> heyas lapo
<lapo> yo troy_s
<troy_s> how you doing lapo?
<troy_s> you involved on the mailing list?
<lapo> troy_s: doing icons mostly, I have not much time to follow the discussion on the ml, but I'm suscribed
<troy_s> ok great.
<troy_s> i start another show in a little while, but i am going to try and simplify the wiki structure a bit
<troy_s> and get a little more organization in place.
<troy_s> currently, the artwork team suffers from horrible organization
<troy_s> and a lack of clarity.
<lapo> troy_s: true
<lapo> there is no coordination at all
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> i just sent out an email
<troy_s> we shall start with very teeny baby steps
<troy_s> please email me your information
<troy_s> and if you are on the forums, suggest that the mailing list be the primary avenue for discourse.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam -- Planning for Edgy
<lapo> ciao guys
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam -- Planning begins for Edgy shortly.  Please get involved with the mailing list.
<lapo> hi
<jimmac> 'lo lapo
<lapo> ciao jimmac
<troy_s> ping
<lukacu> pong :)
<troy_s> greetings luka
<lukacu> hi
<omeg> Love the activity now.
<omeg> IRC is still a little quiet...
<omeg> I wonder if I can group nicks.
<theCore> it's true that channel is quiet
<theCore> most of activity is in the Mailing list
<lapo> hi there
<msikma> Hi
<troy_s> hey andyfitx
<troy_s> you in?
<troy_s> anyone in?
<troy_s> this forum is dark like the inside of a cow.
<Who_> Can anyone give me a quick hand with some Clearlooks/Ubuntulooks theming?
<Who_> (I am writing my first theme, so misconceptions/misunderstandings are likely!)
<troy_s> laf
<Who_> laf?
<troy_s> yeah sorry who, as of a couple of days ago there were about 5 idles in here.
<troy_s> its improving, but i don't know if you can find someone to help immediately.
<Madpilot> the mailing list is far more active (some of it's even productive, in between ranting & frothing...)
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> i agree.
<troy_s> nice to see you here madpilot
<troy_s> did you send me your contact stuffs?
<troy_s> the response has been good.
<Madpilot> haven't yet. will, though
<Who_> well, can I have your opinions on the theme I'm working on, I'll whack up a screenshot
<Who_> http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/Whoman-TheWidgetFactory.png
<Who_> perhaps gives away my liking of Industrial a little...
<Madpilot> OSX inspired?
<Who_> in that it is blue and shiny, I guess so.
<Who_> I liked ubuntulooks in blue, but not the scrollbars or progressbar, so they are from clearlooks-cairo
<Who_> very generic and 'background' - and no good I think for Ubuntu default, etc, cos it is just too normal
<Madpilot> what is the package name of that widget-factory thing?
<Madpilot> anyone? The one in Who_'s screenshot...
<Who_> it's called 'the widget factory'
<Who_> from http://www.stellingwerff.com/?page_id=10
<Madpilot> is it in repos? I can't see anything that looks likely in Synaptic
<Who_> nope
<Madpilot> ah, nevermind
<Who_> but compiling was no hassle for me
<Madpilot> thanks
<Madpilot> meh - blue themes make me twitch, I have flashbacks to XP's awful blue/orange kiddy-toy default appearance... 
<Who_> what colours do you normally use?
<Who_> I am liking 'clean' things at the moment (which I think in some ways OSX isn't
<Madpilot> I have a homebrew theme that's brownish, but slightly redder than Ubuntu's default brown
<Who_> hmm, do you think that a ruby red theme would be cool, or just too bright?
<Madpilot> could be too bright, but it might be cool - it would depend on the exact colours
<Madpilot> http://www.warbard.ca/temp/Breezy-desktop.png <-- my desktop, currently
<troy_s> wholly cow
<troy_s> irc chat
<dinda> well, at least a room  ;-)
<Who_> Madpilot:That's a pretty customised panel!
<Madpilot> I like gnome's applets ;)
<id_sonic> hi
<troy_s> howdy id
<id_sonic> :)
<id_sonic> troy , do you know howto join the ubuntu artwork term?
<troy_s> did you go to the wiki?
<troy_s> i have reorganized it to make it pretty clear
<troy_s> (hopefully)
<troy_s> give it a shot
<id_sonic> I come from the wiki...
<troy_s> well it apparently is working
<troy_s> did you check the three things out there?
<troy_s> 1) mailing list
<troy_s> 2) irc
<troy_s> 3) launchpad
<troy_s> although launchpad needs some structuring
<troy_s> join the mailing list if you want to get involved quickly.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:Madpilot] : Welcome to the Ubuntu Artwork Team's channel -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam -- Planning begins for Edgy shortly.  Please get involved with the mailing list.
<id_sonic> yeah, only not mailling , I will join it soon.
<troy_s> trying to make the mailing list the primary form of activity
<troy_s> as everyone's time zone is soooooo different.
<troy_s> and if you look at the irc logs, not much gets accomplished here.
<troy_s> so to that end, there is a little structuring going on.
<troy_s> hey mich
<troy_s> how you doing?
<Madpilot> random Ubuntu artwork moment: http://www.warbard.ca/temp/Ubuntu_Canada_strap.svg <-- one of my new proposals for an Ubuntu.ca logo
<troy_s> looking...
<troy_s> nice... try some rings.
<troy_s> great concept though... 
* troy_s is canadian.
<Madpilot> inside the maple leaves?
<Madpilot> troy_s, where from?
<troy_s> naw like arms maybe?
* troy_s is from British Columbia.
<troy_s> bathtime
<troy_s> afk
<troy_s> back
<troy_s> not much chatting whilst i was gone
<Madpilot> troy_s, where in BC, if you don't mind me asking? I'm in Victoria myself.
<troy_s> Maple Ridge... 
<troy_s> Hey Mich
<troy_s> You still herE?
<troy_s> I think our best avenue right now is to keep the structured talks going in the wiki.
<troy_s> check the logs of the irc chats... they don't yield much.
<troy_s> again, lack of structure.
<troy_s> there isn't too much we can't accomplish on the wiki and it really solves the time zone things...
<troy_s> anyways, let me know what you think
<Madpilot> having an actual agenda for IRC meetings helps - and someone to enforce the agenda. 
<Madpilot> Look at the Ubuntu CC meetings - often very busy & always well attended, but stuff gets done at them
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> i agree.
<troy_s> but for the large part, it strikes me that these irc meetings are vastly overrated.
<troy_s> a) posting lets people think things through a little more.
<troy_s> b) time zones are NOT an issue
<troy_s> c) missing meetings is not an issue
<troy_s> d) more democratic
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> just my 2 pennies though...
<msikma> Hi troy_s
<troy_s> nice to meet you in person mich
<msikma> Very nice Canada logo.
<msikma> Hah. This isn't exactly in person, though :)
<troy_s> well as close as we might get for a while :)
<msikma> Nice to meet you too, we've exchanged some good e-mails.
<troy_s> anyways, what are your thoughts on this elusive meeting?
<troy_s> i know from my side that my sched is absolutely ridiculous so i certainly cannot meet
<troy_s> and I wonder how many other full timers are able to do that...
<msikma> To be honest, I'd rather have that meeting at some point in the future than new mock-ups for Edgy themes the next few days.
<troy_s> mad that logo is very nice
<troy_s> oh
<troy_s> god
<troy_s> ;)
<troy_s> yah i hear.
<troy_s> you.
<troy_s> check this out...
<troy_s> its a dev doc, something i am a bit accustomed to
<troy_s> it is a pre -alpha, but trying...
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TroySobotka/WorkInProgress
<troy_s> Do you work in graphic art mich?
<msikma> That looks like a solid doc. Maybe we could extend it to contain references to a concrete aim when we decide that we have one.
<troy_s> exactly
<troy_s> i am merely trying to get some form of formal outline
<troy_s> which is lacking in the team
<msikma> Yeah, I work as graphic and web designer at Rotterdam Design Center (http://www.dcworks.nl/).
<troy_s> development docs are wonderful for folks who don't know where / how / etc to contribute
<troy_s> and it prevents full blown mockups of edgy window samples etc.
<troy_s> laf.
<msikma> Yeah, I like them. I also feel it's always important to have some kind of reference material that can tell you how and what.
<troy_s> but i think you are already in the same head space.
<troy_s> totally
<troy_s> 1000000% agreement
<troy_s> i like textures
<troy_s> and references
<troy_s> and color schemas
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> otherwise everyone is just a scattered bunch of soldiers shooting random enemies.
<msikma> :)
<troy_s> hopefully we can steer it that way.
<troy_s> pascal has been great too...
<troy_s> considering that the team can barely get a logical and useful usplash submission page setup i think the best steps are small and simple ones with solid foundational structure.
<msikma> Yeah, I agree. I feel as though there are lots of smart people viewing that mailing list.
<troy_s> we just need a way to focus
<msikma> You know, I really need to figure out how to make themes like the mock-ups that have been shown. I haven't ever done that.
<troy_s> pretty simple
<troy_s> i can step you thru it if you want.
<troy_s> but i must sleep shortly.
<troy_s> your site is flash based
<troy_s> i can't view it.
<troy_s> :(
<msikma> Thanks, but that's okay right now, since I've got work in 30 minutes.
<troy_s> ick
<troy_s> uggh
<msikma> Aw, you can't view it? Is the text gone?
<troy_s> flash is proprietary
<troy_s> non open source
<troy_s> i run a dual core 64 bit system
<troy_s> no 64 bit compile 
<msikma> Ah, there's no Flash player for 64-bit yet.
<troy_s> won't be for a while
<troy_s> and well...
<troy_s> the web is sort of supposed to be about standards...
<troy_s> and flash isn't really one.
<troy_s> java will make it when they go open source, which appears sooner.
<troy_s> i had flash up in a limited 32bit mode, but i can't support adobe so i didn't bother redoing it.
<msikma> I disagree with you on that. The web is, in my profession, a method for companies to gain more revenue by presenting themselves, their style and their strategy online to potential clients. I agree that Flash is not always the greatest solution, and I would actually also rather work on HTML sites, but this is just my profession at this point.
<troy_s> flash isn't a standard nor needed
<troy_s> you can accomplish the same results using other technologies
<troy_s> grail had a very cool little thing that would let you run python applets
<msikma> The kind of sites we make are mostly small sites that exist to represent the style of companies.
<troy_s> which was very nifty.
<troy_s> well, considering that many folks out there are running native 64 bit boxes
<troy_s> that choice limits exposure.
<troy_s> its just an education thing.
<msikma> I feel that I should tell you that I disagree if you have some kind of zealous avertion towards Flash. Again, I must point out that this is my job. I also prefer HTML sites. This is, however, how companies want to profile themselves, and it is arguably also a great platform to do so.
<troy_s> not many people are aware of the downsides until they are forced to deal with it.
<troy_s> no zealous here...
<troy_s> just reality
<troy_s> the toolset is very limited.
<troy_s> the scripting is buggy
<troy_s> etc.
<msikma> Okay, you can stop now.
<troy_s> laf.
<msikma> I don't want to listen to you bring down what I do for a living.
<troy_s> ack
<troy_s> sorry if you are that tied to your job.
<troy_s> i apologize.
<troy_s> where did you school mich?
<msikma> You know, I'm a great fan of open standards and, as I said, would prefer to work on HTML sites. But at the end of the day, I've got a job. I realize that I'm not like some of the other Ubuntu devs in that I simply won't use such software, but I feel that I shouldn't limit myself like that.
<troy_s> it's not entirely limiting really
<troy_s> most people who agree on a philosophical issue
<troy_s> don't say things like 'it doesn't do xxx or yyy' but rather 'let's make it do xxx and yyy'
<troy_s> its all about freedom
<msikma> Preventing myself from using software seems like limitation to me. I also can't tell those companies that they can't have x or y for a site because that would require Flash and I don't want to use it.
<troy_s> and closed source software doesn't offer that sort of option.
<troy_s> no but as more people start to see limitations of mp3, flash, etc
<troy_s> they start to choose other options.
<troy_s> as i said, it is all largely around knowledge
<msikma> Thing is, some amazing things can be done with HTML, but it still doesn't have the same capabilities as Flash does in some areas. Flash is for one kind of thing, HTML is for a bunch of others.
<troy_s> and the commercial software industry would rather keep you in the dark.
<troy_s> um... that's a rather polemical view
<troy_s> web browsers were founded on standards.  that is why they became successful.
<troy_s> that is why they exist today.
<msikma> One could say that Flash was created because of discontent with the lack of support for proper presentation on the Web. Lack of support for proper animation. There's not even a possibility of using one's own fonts.
<troy_s> how many people test their sites in more than say, three browsers?
<troy_s> or use the www consortium tests?
<troy_s> and yes there is ...
<troy_s> but alas, i don't expect you to even worry about it.  Just watch.
<msikma> I don't know. Like I said, I've got a job. I test my sites in the browsers which people use a lot. This includes Linux, but I mainly test it to see if Internet Explorer 6.0 will handle the site. That's what my customers' target group uses.
<troy_s> really?
<msikma> Yes.
<troy_s> based on statistics?
<troy_s> one would hope you test it using firefox as well now.
<msikma> Of course I do.
<troy_s> anyways... i don't really mind.
<msikma> But the bottom line is that, if anything, it should work in Internet Explorer. I always make my sites work in Safari, Firefox and Opera as well, though. That's not much of a problem, since they're much easier to work with.
<troy_s> the bulk of my industry is moving to linux and open source.
<troy_s> but if you make your site work with say, epiphany, those others are guaranteed to work :)
<troy_s> that's the point of standards.
<troy_s> it saves you time and energy
<msikma> I don't recommend the use of Flash to people who want certain sites that should have a good sense of usability. Flash impedes usability, so we only create small sites with it that need to just show off a bunch of cool graphics, really.
<troy_s> linux isn't an end all... it is merely a baby step.
<msikma> That's what I feel Flash is for.
<troy_s> well a company that ignores 64 bit chips for 6 years now...
<troy_s> silly
<msikma> Yeah, that's awful. I'm also really offended by the fact Adobe won't make a universal binary for Photoshop CS2.
<troy_s> why bother?
<troy_s> they have competition now
<msikma> They will require you to buy CS3 if you want to run your software at a normal speed.
<troy_s> normal
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> universals are interpreted, they take a bit of a performance hit
<troy_s> try a 64 bit native app
<troy_s> its hard to beat them
<msikma> Maybe.
<troy_s> of course, there are no 64 bit editions of anything out there in commercial land
<troy_s> osx uses all 32 bit libs
<troy_s> and now they went back to intel 32 bit libs.
<troy_s> the only source of 64 bit computing is open source land.
<troy_s> and let me tell you, waiting on a blur stinks.
<troy_s> you going to paris?
<msikma> It starts 18th June, right?
<msikma> I thought that would be mainly for developers that work on programming rather than artwork.
<troy_s> not a chance
<msikma> I'm not sure if I would be able to attend. It would be pretty fun, though.
<troy_s> indeed
<troy_s> there are going to be a few art folks there.
<troy_s> really though, it is my firm belief that about 99% of the problems can be solved with a simple structure in place.
<msikma> I wish it was a weekend rather than from Sunday to, what is it, Wednesday?
<troy_s> 28th to something
<troy_s> monday to sat
<msikma> By the way, what are your thoughts on the recently submitted "ice" themes?
<troy_s> way way way too far ahead of themselves
<troy_s> i am a simpleton
<troy_s> and i was trained that way
<msikma> Yeah, I agree with that. They're kind of moving ahead of time.
<troy_s> uhhh WAY ahead of time?
<troy_s> what are our targets?
<troy_s> which we WILL set
<troy_s> but we don't have any yet.
<msikma> Sit down and wait for this release thing to happen is one of them. :)
<troy_s> we don't even know how to communicate to the kubuntu / etc teams
<troy_s> well... we actually need a structure in place to START edgy
<troy_s> design docs etc.
<troy_s> otherwise, schedules will kill us -- as most if not all are busy as hell.
<troy_s> i work 14 hours a day average
<troy_s> six day weeks sometimes.
<troy_s> thin room for reading through wordy wiki pages and gobs of unrelated rants on the mailing list.
<msikma> That's a lot of work. I thankfully am employed on a salary 8 hour basis. I usually work 8.5 hours, though.
<troy_s> i work hourly... so it works out ok :)
<msikma> Speaking of the wiki, I'll toss in some new structure ideas at work.
<msikma> Heh, then that's nice.
<troy_s> i think we need to lead on simplicity
<troy_s> where did you school sik?
<troy_s> or did you?
<msikma> I went to an education about web design and marketing for a year, but didn't like it. Then I was able to start at a pretty well-known design company in Rotterdam so I decided to just start doing that for a few years before going back to school.
<troy_s> The previous incarnation of the Wiki was WAY too cumbersome, and WAY too distracted, disjointed, and scattered.
<troy_s> ah.
<troy_s> we need to avoid blah blah blah blah blah and cut to short facts
<msikma> I'm thinking of starting a graphic design education in the next few years.
<troy_s> again, saving time
<troy_s> go get an art degree
<msikma> I do think it's very useful to concisely word things, though.
<troy_s> well statistics show that people don't really look at webpages.
<troy_s> they scan them
<troy_s> so we need to deal with that.
<troy_s> the agenda page is evolving nicely
<troy_s> pascal has put some good thoughts in
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> and again, most of the topics there can be resolved VERY quickly via the mailinglist
<msikma> I agree. Still, there's no excuse for simply not including information when writing about things. That's what the old wiki did a lot. I notice that, for example, pages which refer to the mailing list actually have a link to it now.
<msikma> That's nice.
<troy_s> and we already have a paper trail -- no need to record secretary things...
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> little details
<troy_s> it needs to be intuitive
<troy_s> and clean
<troy_s> and not laden with garbage
<msikma> Yeah.
<troy_s> it didn't work like that
<troy_s> and it won't
<troy_s> it also needs to be cohesive -- it needs to feel the same from page to page so that people can navigate easily.
<troy_s> hence the contents and children listings.
<msikma> It also simply discourages people from even bothering to join up in the first place.
<troy_s> completely
<msikma> Bad wiki structure.
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> so we have a simple plan in place
<troy_s> if we can stick to it
<troy_s> i think it will yield results.
<troy_s> hell -- it already has
<troy_s> and it is very immature
<msikma> Can you make templates on the wiki?
<troy_s> cut paste
<msikma> I'd like to make a navigational template that has all links.
<troy_s> use the first page
<msikma> Hmm.
<troy_s> use ArtworkTeam
<troy_s> for the contents
<troy_s> another thing
<troy_s> is [[FootNote
<troy_s> very handy
<msikma> I'll just put it in the root.
<troy_s> well 
<troy_s> TRY if you can to fit it into the existing pages.
<troy_s> without BLOBBING the heck out of the flow
<troy_s> like pascal did on
<troy_s> the agenda page
<troy_s> notice how he put links in instead of quotes for shuttleworth's comments
<troy_s> very slick
<troy_s> as you can still 'scan' the page.
<troy_s> quite easily.
<troy_s> and the contents work nicely.
<troy_s> with me?
<msikma> Yeah, sure.
<msikma> I'll get something going there.
<troy_s> i spent way too many hours sorting through the garbage to try and unify all the information
<msikma> I gotta go now. It's time to finish that Flash platformer game for a baby food company. :)
<troy_s> it should be like a magazine.
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> be good.
<troy_s> chat soon sik
<troy_s> i'm out too
<msikma> Sure thing, see you around. Let's mail.
<troy_s> night all
<troy_s> take care sik
<id_sonic> exit
<id_sonic> heihei
<id_sonic> hello
<lapo> hi
<sivang> ih all
<sivang> hi all
<sivang> I heared that someone is working on a logo / icon for HomeUserBackup that is targetted to enter into edgy
<sivang> is there anything ready already? 
<troy_s> greetz
<bersace> hi
<bersace> has the meeting been registered ?
<bersace> Is it possible to add it in the launchpad ubuntu-art calendar ?
<bersace> is it possible to use a webcal or other to add it to Evolution Calendar ?
<troy_s> wow
<troy_s> i think the meeting is just plain stupid
<troy_s> but that is only my 2pennies
<troy_s> organization isn't going to manifest out of a random incoherent irc chat.
<troy_s> and everything that I can see on the agenda can be tackled easily in mailing list.
<bersace> so no meeting for 4 June ?
<bersace> having a subject ofr a meeting is important
<bersace> what will be the subject of 4 june meeting ?
<troy_s> exactly
<troy_s> have you been to the wiki?
<troy_s> progress happens on the wiki and that mailing list.
<lapo> troy_s: I think is to early to talk about edgy, dapper has still to come out
<troy_s> totall!
<troy_s> someone who finally agrees with me.
<troy_s> and we have NO ZERO NONE ZILTCH structure in place to accomodate _anything_
<troy_s> it ends up dumped in the bloody wiki like a landfill.
<bersace> imho, we should a) organise art team b) review dapper artwork (what was good/wrong c) plan for edgy
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> and that means design doc
<lapo> I'm not sure I'll like the infrastructure if that means a lot of people arguing a nobody working on stuff tho
<troy_s> which i have spec'd a looose loooooooose looooooose one
<troy_s> of course.
<bersace> i should subscribe to ArtworkTeam Wikipage :)
<troy_s> all infrastructure will do is tell us what the hell we need to do
<troy_s> and where...
<troy_s> i _have_ done this sort of thing professionally before, and creativity needs structure.
<troy_s> or else it is a flailfest like we all can see on the mailing list.
<troy_s> agree?
<troy_s> irc is GREAT for times like this
<troy_s> get to meet some folks
<troy_s> chat 
<troy_s> discuss new things...
<troy_s> but look at the logs... the previous art meeting didn't accomplish anything.
<troy_s> and were attended by very few.
<bersace> troy_s: what is for you a theme ?
<troy_s> also, i imagine i am going to learn a little from paris...
<troy_s> theme?
<bersace> i saw https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content/DefaultUbuntu
<troy_s> do you mean like motif?
<bersace> and wonder what constitue a theme
<troy_s> oh... i tried to start that up
<bersace> according to gnome, it is gtk+metacity+icon
<troy_s> so that people can ONE click and see the entire 'look and feel' of the desktop
<bersace> but oviously, this is much more
<troy_s> color scheme, window looks, wallpaper, etc?
<bersace> also, there is two part of a theme : system wide and session wide themes
<bersace> yeq
<bersace> yes
<troy_s> maybe you can help me out there.
<troy_s> i think smaller thumbnails would be totally helpful
<troy_s> i just braindumped what i could...
<bersace> we must define what is a theme
<troy_s> Great idea.
<bersace> what do we work on !
<troy_s> well we need to start with what we have
<troy_s> and that is what that page is attempting
<bersace> of course
<troy_s> what we work on is different though
<troy_s> because that will involve mark
<troy_s> new additions to edgy that need our attention
<troy_s> overall flow
<troy_s> which is missing
<bersace> we should put that definition in which page ?
<troy_s> no cohesive structure resulted in 10000s of great tidbits of art that aren't working together
<bersace> ArtworkTeam/Content/.. ?
<troy_s> well maybe try organizing what you feel is a nice one click look at the default ubuntu desktop on that DefaultUbuntu page
<troy_s> small efforts move mountains.
<troy_s> thumbnail the cursors, the icons, etc?
<troy_s> i don't know where to mine for that stuff.
<troy_s> i only could find the desktop
<troy_s> i could find the splash too...
<troy_s> hold on...
<troy_s> i'll thumbnail it.
<bersace> okey, so DefaultUbuntu show what is a theme for now ?
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> that's the idea
<troy_s> so that you can visualize ALL the components
<troy_s> and say 'hey the walllpaper doesn't match the splash!'
<troy_s> u editing it ?
<troy_s> let me get this attachment on it.
<troy_s> done
<troy_s> u still here ber?
<lapo> troy_s: the first thing that needs to be addressed is some sort of leadership I believe
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : Welcome to the Ubuntu Artwork Team's channel -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam -- Planning for structuring Edgy proceeding.  Please get involved with the mailing list.
<troy_s> it will evolve
<lapo> design by community doesn't work
<troy_s> you are kidding right lapo?
<troy_s> of course we need to make decisions
<lapo> nope
<troy_s> via polls (and that has been established at Launchpad)
<troy_s> but once we arrive at a democratic path
<troy_s> we need to follow it
<troy_s> not sulk
<lapo> it wont work
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> it has worked for free software since its inception
<troy_s> but maybe you know otherwise.
<lapo> never worked with design
<troy_s> very little professionals have been involved in the design of free software
<troy_s> very few rather
<troy_s> it is a gradual process.
<lapo> design is another thing
<troy_s> it requires people who speak the same language (meaning art, not spanish)
<troy_s> design is design is design.  If you think architecture is easier to design than art, you are in the dark.
<lapo> elect a eader and give him somle sort of final decision on stuff
<troy_s> the fact that i can type on a community driven kernel is a testament to it.
<troy_s> absolutely
<troy_s> ombudsmen
<troy_s> for when there are deadlocks
<troy_s> that's it
<troy_s> we all can vote
<lapo> kernel has a leadership
<troy_s> that SHOULD work in 99% of situations.
<troy_s> and that is being dealt with
<troy_s> read the wiki
<troy_s> pascal posted links to marks thoughts
<troy_s> and we are going to tackle those.
<lapo> yep I know the wiki and mark thought I'm just not sure it will work
<troy_s> if it never got written down on the wiki, if irc didn't start happening again, if the mailing list didn't start with activity, etc...
<troy_s> it is a slow process
<troy_s> but look how far we have come in only a short week or two
<troy_s> its promising
<troy_s> no?
<lapo> we get that far because there's people working and not rguing all the time :-)
<troy_s> you need to voice your concerns on the list though lap.
<troy_s> yah well creative debates are healthy
<troy_s> just as long the bickering is kept down
<troy_s> ignore the trolls.
<troy_s> its like any other list yah?
<lapo> I have no time now, I after dapper release I'll try to write down what I think
<troy_s> let it stew
<troy_s> we all have ZERO time
<troy_s> which is why i think a meeting is just silly.
<lapo> I actually prefer meeting to ml
<troy_s> well yer meeting now.
<troy_s> and as irc gets going it will take better strides
<troy_s> my problem with formal meetings is 
<troy_s> A) they don't accomplish anything beyond what can be accomplished on teh list
<troy_s> B) the list is more democratic if you let people check their mail for a week
<troy_s> C) they don't accomplish anything (check the logs) -- unless we are brainstorming then they can be useful to have in realtime.
<lapo> irc is faster then ml
<troy_s> D) EVERYONE can read the list, shortage of time permitting.
<troy_s> of course...
<troy_s> which is great for brainstorming.
<troy_s> but we aren't really in need of brainstorming.
<Who_> I think the advantage of the meeting is that it forces people to stay one one track till it is done and decided
<Who_> lists go round and round
<troy_s> who:  i'd say we are TRYING to stay on one track now.
<troy_s> yah but you see, the wiki is great for that.
<lapo> we need the right people on irc at the same time tho
<troy_s> look at the agenda page.
<Who_> oh yea, for sure - but as a general rule....
<troy_s> lapo:  EXACTLY
<lapo> btw, I have to go guys, later
<troy_s> who -- this is ours.  let's say f*ckit to the general rule.
<troy_s> take care lap
<troy_s> see you soon.
<Who_> see ya
<Who_> well, I tried to get decisive today on the meeting dates! only two names in the list last time I checke
<troy_s> who:  also the paper trail eliminates the need for a secretary.
<Who_> d
<Who_> yea, that's true
<troy_s> who:  yep.  and i can't really commit.
<troy_s> or else i would have
<troy_s> which is why i am adamant that people look at the agenda and tell me what we can't accomplish between the wiki and the mailing list
<Who_> I'm annoyed that I can't make the one Mark can - 
<troy_s> mark is _damn_ busy
<troy_s> especially now
<troy_s> so dragging him to a meeting strikes me as ...
<Who_> for sure!
<troy_s> unfortunate.
<troy_s> with me?
<troy_s> we all stand around and talk about the color of our hair.
<Who_> but we really can't go without knowing what is going on, as per my additions to the agenda
<troy_s> let's just TRY to make the agenda keep clicking as well as it is.
<troy_s> absolutely1
<Who_> not annoyed with you - no!
<troy_s> but mark isn't going to tell us.
<Who_> you reckon not
<troy_s> he has stated to me directly that he will not enforce a mandate.
<troy_s> it must evolve out of OUR community.
<troy_s> further,
<Who_> great!
<troy_s> think about this momentarily who:
<troy_s> so we get 16 pieces of info
<troy_s> what do we do with them?
<troy_s> ;)
<troy_s> see my point?
<Who_> less than I think I ought to....
<Who_> :P
<troy_s> it ends in a big stinky wiki log
<troy_s> and no one knows where to look for info
<Who_> oh, ok
<troy_s> and POOF we are back at the start.
<troy_s> everything is open and transparent on that wiki
<troy_s> very democratic
<troy_s> which i think is a positive thing...
<Who_> If Mark isn't gonna give us clear direction we just need to decide that we are going to set the Agenda for Edgy (as in be the art-people)
<troy_s> ok
<Who_> yea, the wiki works quite well, but does get abandoned easily
<troy_s> but look at what you are stating... cuz that is a HELL of a statement :)
<troy_s> well who's fault is that?
<troy_s> there are going to come times when you aren't going to be able to put the work in, so someone else has to.
<troy_s> hopefully we all can work within the structure and not tear each other apart
<Who_> I think it is because it is difficult to maintain a wiki page that is so democratic - no-one wants to remove other people's ideas because they don't want to step on toes
<troy_s> open source's biggest weakness is the scatter bomb 
<troy_s> yah well...
<troy_s> thus far it works
<troy_s> if you have a problem with something
<troy_s> post it.
<troy_s> i am sure people will listen
<troy_s> i know i will.
<troy_s> wher eis bersace?
<troy_s> hey BERSACE
<Who_> yea. What I mean - is that if Mark isn't going to tell us then we have to decide - not do it all, necessarily, but be clear on our aims
<troy_s> yep
<bersace> troy_s: yes ?
<troy_s> don't take this verbatim
<troy_s> but look here:
<troy_s> wiki.ubuntu.com/TroySobotka/WorkInProgress
<troy_s> it is pre pre pre alpha again.
<troy_s> but hopefully you can see a bit of hope in it.
<troy_s> bersace, you working on scrambling some images together?
<troy_s> how do you screenshot a gdm logon screen?
<bersace> hh
<bersace> xnest windowed
<troy_s> aw christ... why didn't i think of that.  clever bugger.
<Who_> gees, it's HUGE
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> didn't spend long on it, just tried to bring some of my industry experience to the table.
<troy_s> its still damn rough.
<troy_s> so don't clobber it :)
<Who_> I wrote a long doc of my own today - I'd love it if you guys could give an opinion
<troy_s> sure.. can you post it under my dir on the wiki?
<troy_s> TroySobotka/WhosWho
<troy_s> or somefine?
<troy_s> and remember, a design doc commands the entire stretch
<Who_> ?
<troy_s> so it needs to be quite exhaustive.
<Who_> it is not related to the art team, sorry
<troy_s> grr.
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> ber, can you snag a screener of the logon?
<Who_> http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/nautilussidebarextensions
<troy_s> great idea
<troy_s> have you taken it to the ubuntu folks?
<troy_s> or are planning to?
<Who_> yea, I'll wait till edgy starts being talked about
<Who_> if I do it now it will get buried
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> the way it integrates is related to the art team too.
<Who_> Do either of you guys use eclipse?
<troy_s> so keep on it.
<troy_s> ide?
<troy_s> the IDE who?
<Who_> yea, I am interested UI
<Who_> yea, the IDE
<troy_s> you code?
<Who_> at work
<troy_s> i haven't used it, but i hear it is quite good.
<troy_s> it has some java backbone which is why i have avoided it.
<Who_> but I write Windows apps in an MS environment and it has left me useless without it. Very clever!
<bersace> i hate eclipse :)
<bersace> far too bload
<bersace> anjuta2 rox
<troy_s> ber:  agree from what i have seen
<Who_> yea, the whole thing is set up for java, and I want to write C++
<bersace> emacs supersedes both :)
<troy_s> i'm a vi guy
<troy_s> sad.
<troy_s> laf.
<bersace> boo
<troy_s> boo!?
<troy_s> laf
<bersace> vi sux
<troy_s> ber
<troy_s> help me
<Who_> well, as this is likely to be my first little exploration into coding not-on-windows I'll try that
<troy_s> screener that fricking gdm logon
<bersace> sudo apt-get install xnest
<troy_s> who:  start with python... it is gaining pretty massive acceptance
<troy_s> danke ber.
<bersace> then alacarte and enable new login in window
<bersace> then launch it
<troy_s> yah it used to be there no?
<bersace> then Alt+Impr Syst
<troy_s> i thought it was included before.
<bersace> in category System Tools
<troy_s> yeah it isn't there is it?
<Who_> I have to say, seeing as I use c# at work, I was tempted to go down the mono route - but there seems to be quite a bit of resitance to mono building up in Ubuntu land...
<troy_s> mono is microsoft...
<troy_s> well
<troy_s> not micro
<troy_s> but yo uknow what i mean
<troy_s> i think everyone is a little leery of ms developed 'standards'
<troy_s> cuz they break them so readily
<troy_s> and mono isn't mature yet.
<troy_s> python is pretty darn incredible really.
<troy_s> i can't say enough good things about it.
<Who_> :P That's exactly why it suits! I haven't had windows on my PC at home for years - but at work...
<troy_s> performance is the downside, but hell...
<Who_> I must point out I'm pre-uni! I don't do any _difficult_ coding!
<troy_s> then go with python
<troy_s> it is on ALL platforms
<troy_s> and is pretty darn great
<troy_s> dynamic as hell
<troy_s> embeddable
<troy_s> etc.
<Who_> why not GTK and C++?
<troy_s> well... try coding in python first then get back to me.
<troy_s> ;)
<Who_> what do you use it for?
<troy_s> its darn fast
<troy_s> to get stuff up and running
<Who_> lol
<troy_s> and you just write it once, give it to your windows nerd and it works there too.
<troy_s> like i said, it is pretty darn impressive
<troy_s> all opensource too.
<troy_s> and TONS of extra libs...
<Who_> in a way, that worries me - it is the 'ease of getting running' with an MS IDE that has resulted in be being able to write a pretty big app at work, and have no real idea how to do the same without VisualStudio!!
<troy_s> so you don' tneed to worry about binding messes.
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> the ms/ apple lure
<Who_> that is what I am trying to get away from! I know that the hard bit must be coding itself, not getting the tools and using them to do everything together!
<Who_> Novell are on to it with MonoDevelop though. Is there something like that for Python
<Who_> ?
<Who_> for example - simple question that I really ought to know the answer to. I have the industrial engine src here, I can build it fine, fun, happy etc. now if I wanted to modify it, would I have to do the whole compilation routine again, or is there a shortcut given I know I have the right environment?
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> you will need to recompile your changes.
<troy_s> and yes there are several rapid application development environs for python
<troy_s> and glade is pretty darn good for interfaces.
<Who_> /usr/share/doc/diveintopython
<Who_> they installed it by default
<troy_s> ;)
<troy_s> good doc
<Who_> just for the record...I knew I had to recompile the changes, I just hoped there was a quicker way :)
<troy_s> uh...
<troy_s> use pythong?
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> of course, python isn't suited for everything, but you at least need to try it to find out where the walls are.
<Who_> right. My stomach is yelling abuse at me for abusing it for too long
<Who_> thanks for the advice :). I'll get back to you with comments on the wiki a bit later
<Who_> (should I just add theme to your workinprogresspage or would that be irritating for you?
<troy_s> ???
<troy_s> its everyones wiki bro.
<troy_s> do what you find... 
<troy_s> my only thought is that it needs to be 
<troy_s> clear
<troy_s> concise
<troy_s> and not laden with unessaries
<troy_s> etc
<Who_> I was talking about the page in your _specific_ work in prgress area :)
<Who_> I'll keep to the point - no python vs mono chat - I promise
<troy_s> you are a ROCKSTAR bersace!
<troy_s> lovely work
<bersace> wait a minute
<bersace> now
<troy_s> awsome
<troy_s> now
<troy_s> i noticed on your links
<bersace> do you want more icons ?
<troy_s> in your bug report
<troy_s> (yeah icons would rock)
<troy_s> that you did a window snip sample
<troy_s> with a nice dropshadow and such
<troy_s> that would work lovely for an interface sample
<troy_s> a menu
<troy_s> a button
<troy_s> a window
<bersace> you mean Interface Sample ?
<troy_s> yah
<bersace> oki
<troy_s> we need to show what the windows look like
<troy_s> the buttons
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> how the thing comes together
<troy_s> already you can see that the tonal diffs are a problem between the gdm splash / gdm / wallpaper
<troy_s> i really like the gdm splash ...
<troy_s> who did it?
<troy_s> and where do we snag mich's usplash image?
<bersace> gdm has no splash
<bersace> it is gnome session splash
<bersace> gdm has only greeter theme
<troy_s> yah
<troy_s> no...
<troy_s> i mean the usplash
<troy_s> that mich developed...
<troy_s> the gnome session splash rocks 
<troy_s> i suppose i should change that label.
<troy_s> you editing it et?
<troy_s> if you are, can you change the label to the proper label?
<troy_s> who did the gdm session greeter splash?
<troy_s> its very well done
<troy_s> slick
<troy_s> is it franks?
<troy_s> hey is jimmac around?
<bersace> nop
<bersace> he's just a gnome art guru that made hicolor, part of Tango, Gorilla, etc.
<bersace> not an ubuntu Artist
<bersace> i shot upslash
<troy_s> ah
<troy_s> awsome work on that wiki page ber
<troy_s> yer a clever bugger
<bersace> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content/DefaultUbuntu
<troy_s> how the hell did you get the usplash?
<troy_s> and i guess we need to find the credits for the metacity design etc?
<troy_s> and where can we find a more comprehensive display of the icons?
<bersace> usplash = qemu screenshot of dapper-live.iso
<bersace> for icon
<bersace> i use art.gnome.org screenshot util
<bersace> if you want i may patch the util to shot more icons
<bersace> do you ?
<bersace> how many ?
<troy_s> how many are there?
<troy_s> what do you think?
<troy_s> hard to say, although i like the idea of more.
<bersace> what about 4x4 icons ?
<troy_s> great idea
<bersace> or 4x6
<troy_s> are they all the same?
<troy_s> maybe we should have some scalars
<bersace> i think we just want to put preview
<bersace> not show all the theme
<bersace> what icons do we want to show ?
<troy_s> ok
<troy_s> well... i think maybe 25 icons is a little more of a cross section?
<troy_s> 5x5?
<troy_s> or is that too much?
<bersace> hmm
<bersace> i prefer wide preview
<bersace> (4rowx6column)
<bersace> i think that we should add shutdown icon
<bersace> gnome-web icon
<bersace> distributor icon
<troy_s> that gives us a pretty good 'look' yeah?
<bersace> one or two network icon
<bersace> e.g. network-server and network-workgroup
<bersace> folder remote
<bersace> dialog-warning
<bersace> back and next
<bersace> ok ?
<troy_s> as long as we keep it clean
<troy_s> and not a sprawl i think it looks terrific
<troy_s> and does it ever make referencing the 'look and feel' easier.
<troy_s> how the hell are we going to get the rest for the other distributions?
<bersace> what do you mean by "the rest for the other distributions ?"
<troy_s> kubuntu
<troy_s> etc
<troy_s> there he is
<troy_s> heyas mich
<troy_s> how you doing?
<msikma> Hi Troy! I'm doing just fine. Working out a user interface idea.
<msikma> (Using my evil proprietary seal-club-ware.) ;)
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> we'll fix you yet!
<bersace> troy_s: kubuntu use qt
<troy_s> check out what et has done on the default sample page
<msikma> I hope so. I'd like to see what GIMP is really capable of.
<troy_s> pretty slick.
<bersace> that may be tricky
<msikma> I know it's good, but not how it actually works.
<bersace> how did Kubuntu lead there artwork for now ?
<troy_s> ber -- exactly!
<msikma> Default sample page?
<troy_s> and we need to at least showcase where each one is
<troy_s> and get whoever is working on it
<troy_s> etc
<troy_s> in with us
<troy_s> wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content
<troy_s> try there sik
<msikma> I really hope that Edgy will get us anti-aliased corners (in themes). I probably won't use rounded corners if that turns out to be impossible.
<troy_s> corners for windows?
<msikma> Yeah.
<troy_s> well we will need to address that
<troy_s> if we feel it improves it
<troy_s> eventually, i will talk to mark and get pointmen for all the folks we need to chat with
<msikma> Oh, definitely yeah.
<msikma> Big yeah, actually. Aliased corners are awful.
<troy_s> little bits of work
<troy_s> help
<msikma> Since they're so small, I bet that you could even render it with software.
<troy_s> which is why folks all just need to step up and get the little bits of work done
<troy_s> well yah.
<troy_s> one would hope
<troy_s> but perhaps it is a gnome issue
<troy_s> needless to say, a dev in the proper area can answer that question very quickly.
<msikma> I'll ask the devs about that. infinity seemed to know about it.
<troy_s> great idea
<troy_s> there is probably a lot of look and feel that can be accomplished with a simple bit of good communication
<troy_s> wow... et that page is rocking
<troy_s> finally i can 'see' what the whole package looks like.  it will help our discussions in the future...
<troy_s> did frank do the gnome session splash
<troy_s> that is one nice bit of work.
<lapo> hi
<troy_s> heyas lapo
<troy_s> good to have you back
<lapo> I use to hang here, it's nice to see the channel alive
<Who_> when did it die?
<troy_s> well i think a lot of people didn't know how to get onto irc.
<troy_s> or at least, the folks who use the wiki etc.
<lapo> usually this channel is silent
<Who_> I'm not sure - I think that the artteam has ahd more to do lately
<msikma> Has jimmac ever used the mailing list? He's been lurking in here for as long as I can remember.
<Who_> yea, I noticed that
<troy_s> well... et
<troy_s> put it down
<Who_> He made some comment about icons, as I remember
<troy_s> put him down as the cursor folk
<troy_s> i _really_ think the cursors are going to need targetting in edgy... but alas... getting ahead of self.
<Who_> lapo - do you do work on Tangerine?
<msikma> I like the cursors that have been in forever.
<troy_s> does ANYONE know who did the session logon for gnome?
<msikma> Neat things.
<Who_> surely it was the guy who did the icons?
<lapo> jimmac used some of his magic on tangerine icons
<troy_s> msik:  me too... i would just like to see the gradated osx change to gradated ubuntu logo or something.
<lapo> Who_: yes
<msikma> Well, time to get some work done
<Who_> real work?
<msikma> The real kind.
<lapo> Who_: tangerine is mostly my fault :-)
<troy_s> sik
<msikma> Yes?
<troy_s> i put your sandbox under comments
<Who_> lol, good call :)
<troy_s> hope you don't get pissed
<troy_s> laf.
<msikma> Ah, yeah.
<msikma> Nah, that's fine.
<troy_s> great spot to put various bits and bites.
<troy_s> great idea
<msikma> I don't have a particular affection for my sandbox :P
<troy_s> maybe i'll post pinux's cursors.
<Who_> lapo: do you just use inkscape? cos when I made my folder icon variations I found it pretty slow... (Athlon XP 1900)
<lapo> Who_: yes
<lapo> Who_: when things are complex inkscape is not so fast
<msikma> When things are complex, Illustrator is also not very fast. Especially when working with some of that 3D stuff.
<Who_> lapo: I am hoping XaraLX will do the job - svg import and export are planned
<troy_s> lapo you did the icon set?
<Who_> Xara, for what I have used of it, is fast
<lapo> troy_s: yep, with andreasn and other tango guys help
<troy_s> can you assign proper credits on the default ubuntu thumbnail page please?
<Who_> troy_s: you know this is Tangerine not Human?
<lapo> Who_: dunno, I'm happy with inkscape
<troy_s> grr.
<troy_s> is there a listing for tangerine?
<troy_s> somewhere?
<Who_> what kind of growl is that?
<troy_s> (read grr as in brain fart)
<lapo> troy_s: I used to have a status image around, but I'm not updateing it latelly
<troy_s> pretty solid work man...
<lapo> I have this one, but it is old
<lapo> http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bat/orango-tango/status.png
<troy_s> its still on the artwork team page
<troy_s> under content
<msikma> By the way, since I made that usplash screen, will I get mentioned somewhere? Pretty much all the applications have a list of participants. That would be really neat (though I don't necessarily have to, of course).
<troy_s> you are already in on the wiki
<troy_s> which is why contacts are important so that we can chitter with the proper folks.
<troy_s> anyone here use google talk or jabber?
<troy_s> probalby not a bad idea to have everyone's contact.
<troy_s> as though we were all in the same office 
<troy_s> hey lapo, have you done any wallpaper work?
<lapo> troy_s: gnome backgrounds, with andreasn
<Who_> talk later - I'm off
<msikma> troy_s: I meant in the finished product.
<msikma> Oh, you were talking to someone else.
<troy_s> lapo, where is your work?
<troy_s> we should start sandboxing some loose ideas
<lapo> apt-get install gnome-backgrounds
<troy_s> are yours labeled with author?
<lapo> troy_s: I have no homepage
<troy_s> you have a wiki page
<troy_s> put them on there!
<lapo> naah, I have no homepage because I'm a lazy ass :-)
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> ok...
<troy_s> family home.
<troy_s> i'm idle boyz and girlz.
<lapo> ciao
<bersace> troy_s: done : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content/DefaultUbuntu
<bersace> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content/DefaultUbuntu?action=show#head-13ac14add182c0c5198e7aed76ad01ea3c70f816
<bersace> icons are columns sorted : 1) menu, 2) places, 3) mime, 4) devices, 5) action and 6) apps
<bersace> troy_s: ok, i think that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content/DefaultUbuntu is finished
<msikma> Nice.
<msikma> I wonder who made that background.
<bersace> thanks
<bersace> and good night
<msikma> Goodnight, I'm leaving.
<troy_s> welcome andreas
<troy_s> did you do the icons for human?
<andreasn> nope
<lapo> troy_s: human icons are done by a payed artist from iconfactory
<andreasn> I did the tangerine set
<lapo> payed by canonical
<andreasn> and a bunch of the ones in tango-icon-theme-common
<lapo> human icons are sort of closed development
<andreasn> and only of good to ubuntu, not the broader community
<lapo> uhm....well without the "sort of"
<troy_s> wow
<troy_s> didn't know that
<troy_s> can someone identify that person and put them down as the contributor?
<troy_s> or company
<troy_s> or does iconfactory suffice?
<andreasn> troy_s: what are you up to?
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content/DefaultUbuntu
<troy_s> Trying to build a library of color and looks that is easily referenced when discussion requires.
<andreasn> cool
<troy_s> http://www.iconfactory.com/
<troy_s> is that it?
<troy_s> Etienne did some pretty good work collecting the bits.
<troy_s> But I want to make sure that we target the correct contributors in the event that we decide on adjustments etc.
<andreasn> hey Who_
<Who_> hiya
<troy_s> wb who
* troy_s is AFK for a bit.  With little girlie...
<Who_> anything big/interesting happen in the last 3 hours - things seemed to be going fast wehn I left :)
<Who_> andreasn: Thanks for the explanation of how you guys 'share the love' - I actually didn't realise that went on. 
<andreasn> no problem, sorry for the delay before answering it...I'm currently moving out of my apartment
<Who_> and also, you may be interested to know: While loitering in #ubuntu-devel I noticed dholbach ask mdz for permission to upload a new ubuntu-artwork - which I guess would be our work.
<Who_> I didn't hear the answer (about the themes)
* troy_s stirs.
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TroySobotka/WorkInProgress
<troy_s> feel free to comment folks.
<troy_s> use footnotes 
<troy_s> so i can make changes as you all see fit.
* troy_s is out again.
<andreasn> Who_: sorry, delayed with other stuff for a while there
<andreasn> yeah, some of the stuff from the artwork-team is in there
<andreasn> like the splash and stuff
<troy_s> ?
<andreasn> the community contributed icons are in tangerine-icon-theme and tango-icon-theme-common
<andreasn> human icons are in the ubuntu-artwork package
* troy_s is out for a bit.
<Who_> sleep beckons
<Who_> speak soon
<lapo> andreasn: talking about tango, I have some 32x32 applet related tango icon theme icons
<andreasn> for tango-icon-theme?
<lapo> yep, the icons which goes in applet chooser
<andreasn> I see
<andreasn> tango-icon-theme-common
<andreasn> then
<andreasn> :)
<lapo> nope tango icon theme this time
<andreasn> oh?
<lapo> show-desktop, exit session
<andreasn> I see
<andreasn> btw, will you be able to attend in paris?
<lapo> uhm? when? what?
<andreasn> the edgy planning event
<lapo> would be cool, when it will be?
<andreasn> I don't have any money, so I can't come :(
<andreasn> the end of june
<lapo> uhm...I kinda busy at work, I don't think I could attend the event :-/
<lapo> for edgy I think we need to add some original stuff to tangerine, i.e drop some of the recolored stuff adding original icons
<lapo> some of the recolored stuff is really bad
<andreasn> absolutley
<andreasn> we could adhere to some of the Human design
<andreasn> but in tango-style
<lapo> uhm
<andreasn> metaphor and shape-wise
<lapo> I think we should stop redoing human stuff tango style
<lapo> human will remain human
<andreasn> perhaps you are right
<lapo> the scope of the tangoification was to convince mark to make his artist develop tango icons
<lapo> which is falied :-/
<andreasn> yeah
<lapo> so let's do some funky stuff now
<andreasn> yeah!
<lapo> I'm sick of fixing thier stuff :-)
<andreasn> heh
<lapo> let's try to teach people what tango is developing a tango style theme which is not tango-icon-theme
<andreasn> absolutley
<andreasn> there seems to be a lot of confusion there
<andreasn> and I don't blame them, our communication with the rest of the free software community is shit
<lapo> yeah
<lapo> we need original stuff, I love our folders, but perhaps something different should be nice
<lapo> the trashbin have to go
<andreasn> sure
<andreasn> the yellow one?
<andreasn> or the grey cylinder?
<lapo> yep, we need a new design
<lapo> both :-)
<lapo> new navigation arrows
<andreasn> I need to focus a bit on making nice application icons
<lapo> 32x32 size
<lapo> yep, that's needed as well
<andreasn> I'm a bit tired of basic-theming for now
<sivang> guys, is anybody working on some artwork for HUB?
<andreasn> sivang: what is that?
<sivang> HomeUserBackup
<andreasn> only on paper right now
<andreasn> but I belive I've chatted with you about that before
<sivang> yes, I think so, just wans't sure about the person whom I chatted with :)
<andreasn> it was probably me
<andreasn> it's on my edgy-roadmap
<andreasn> do you need anything else besides a application-icon?
<sivang> Well, if you take a look at Sebastien Droge's UI, it currenty lacks on GFX what so ever, when you have free time it would be nice to see how we can make it more friendly looking
<sivang> feel free to also suggest changes if you like
<sivang> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup/UI
<andreasn> it looks nice
<andreasn> although some icons are used wrongly in this image it seems
<andreasn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup/UI?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=current.jpg
<andreasn> like zoom-full for Verify Integrity
<lapo> sivang: why the exit icon?
<sivang> lapo: for quitting the program :)
<sivang> andreasn: but this UI is going to be replaced by the new one
<sivang> (the one windows one)
<andreasn> I can probably fix better suiting icons for those buttons. As usual I am not certain buttons should have icons in them, but that is another matter ;)
<lapo> sivang: there's the x on top of the window, I wouldn't use a button for that
<sivang> lapo: right
<sivang> lapo: care to open a bug report about that against it?
<lapo> sorry, I'm really busy atm
<andreasn> I'm off to bed... I'll get on the icon in about 2 weeks if it's ok
* andreasn puts it on lapos todo-list ;)
<andreasn> night people!
<lapo> it's too long already :-)
<lapo> night
<sivang> andreasn: sure thing
<sivang> lapo: as well 
<sivang> thank you guys alot!
<andreasn> np man
<andreasn> hub looks like a really nice app
<lapo> sivang: if the target of that backup application is the home user, I think some stuff needs to rewording
<lapo> and or needs to be ditched
<lapo> "verify integrity" for example
<sivang> lapo: you're welcome to list it all as bugs, I know there is a lot more work to be done
<sivang> lapo: better put on bug reports,
<sivang> lapo: IRC gets lost eventually :)
<andreasn> sivang: did you ask mpt for advice on it. That guy really know his way around interface design
<andreasn> ?
<lapo> btw looks cool, I'd love to have an option to backup configuration files
<lapo> sivang: I'll file bugs eventually when finished with those fscking icons :-)
<lapo> yeah mpt rules
<sivang> andreasn: he proposed to original old UI
<sivang> probably worth bugging him again
<sivang> but he's very busy
<andreasn> I see
<andreasn> we should try cloning him
<sivang> indeed :)
<andreasn> well, that's it for tonight
<sivang> night all
<troy_s> who lives?
<Madpilot> hmm?
<Madpilot> it's Friday evening of a long week, I only count as semi-alive
<Madpilot> ;)
<troy_s> no kidding
<lapo> hi
<bersace> hi
<troy_s> greetz
<bersace> hi
<troy_s> hey et
<troy_s> sheesh... does billy do anything other than rant?
<troy_s> wow a new software updates icon.  how cute.
<bersace> that icon is still a label
<bersace> like "ssh" or "ftp" label on remote directory
<bersace> that's quite inconsistent with other icon such as logout
<troy_s> got a link?
<msikma> Hi :)
<troy_s> heyas mich
<msikma> Hmm... I can't remember- can anyone tell me if that one wallpaper with the levitating Gnu made it into Dapper?
<troy_s> a bunch of artwork came down the pipe today
<troy_s> you talking gnome-wallpapers add on?
<msikma> No, the one we voted on. Well, I didn't vote for any of them.
<msikma> *ones we voted on
<msikma> Ah, it didn't.
<msikma> Good thing, then.
<msikma> I was just thinking about it the other day and realized that it probably wouldn't have been a good idea to include it. Not for artistic reasons, but for the reason that it depicted a meditating Gnu, which could be seen as improper usage of religion by some people.
<troy_s> why are we bothering with crap that can all be snagged from gnome-look?
<troy_s> seems like a large WASTE of effort.
<troy_s> meditating gnu religion issue?
<troy_s> who levitates?
<msikma> Yeah.
<msikma> Well, it's difficult to explain. I'll find that wallpaper.
<msikma> http://art.ubuntu.com/images/backgrounds/Ubuntu-Levitating_Ubuntu_Gnu_1280x1024.png
<troy_s> ok here's a question based on that:
<troy_s> who admins that CMS site?
<msikma> I don't know. Isn't it just meant to be a repository for sharing artwork stuff rather than development?
<troy_s> and launchpad needs more admins, where do we go to set this into motion?
<troy_s> well...
<troy_s> you can't submit
<troy_s> you submit, someone must add it 
<troy_s> hence the CMS notion
<troy_s> i tested it... it hasn't updated or even been looked at for at least a month
<troy_s> hence i left it out of the restructuring of the wiki
<troy_s> omma set up a great outline in terms of page structure
<msikma> I think that Launchpad admins will be appointed based on who we choose as leaders during out meeting. Well, the tech-savvy ones out of the ones we would appoint.
<troy_s> but the damn cms is elusive.
<troy_s> i think there should be at least several
<troy_s> so that when one is at work
<troy_s> and a poll needs to be setup NO
<troy_s> NOW
<troy_s> it can happen
<troy_s> but alas, that is all on the agenda page as per pascal's link
<troy_s> mark suggested three...
<troy_s> which is great
<troy_s> of course we can't vote if we don't have access to the stupid polling feature/ calendar feature/ etc.
<msikma> What about the appointing of an art "director"? I think we'll need to wait out a little longer before we do anything about that.
<troy_s> and i sent mail to joel (the listed admin) but he didn't respond for a week or more
<troy_s> so... it strikes me as broken
<msikma> Maybe one of the external guys who's worked on the Human icons would be interested in something like that.
<troy_s> ombudsmen.
<troy_s> break the deadlocks if any should be arrived at...
<msikma> Speaking of a calendar feature, do you think it could have an XML feed?
<msikma> That would be sweet.
<troy_s> i think it might... i would need to look into it.
<troy_s> of course, i can't bloody do bugger all with it 
<troy_s> because its locked down
<msikma> I use Google Calendar, and I can import The Fridge's calendar into it.
<msikma> It then auto-updates when things are added to it.
<troy_s> well launchpad has specifications
<troy_s> which is great for our goals and arriving at them
<troy_s> as with a calender
<troy_s> and the rest of ubuntu uses it
<troy_s> so we should
<troy_s> that way we at least get synced with devf
<msikma> Yeah.
<troy_s> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs
<msikma> I think we'll figure this out yet.
<troy_s> it can work GREAT for us
<troy_s> needing an icon fix etc...
<troy_s> bersace is pretty killer at knocking tasks off if he has a list, and i imagine others of us are good at that too.
<troy_s> we need to access the team page though...
<msikma> Definitely. So that's one more reason to get that meeting out of the way.
<msikma> Do you think it would also work via the mailing list?
<troy_s> i suppose we could theoretically launch another bloody team since that team page is um... NOT ACTIVE
<troy_s> at all.
<troy_s> absolutely
<troy_s> the way i see it, we base all of our tools on NEED
<msikma> I'm sure that it would probably work, but it's just that I've only done proper Internet meetings via IRC.
<troy_s> 1) discourse -- mailing list, and irc for brainstorming when two or more people manage to get into the same room together
<troy_s> hard with ubuntu sik
<troy_s> time zones
<troy_s> like pascal and i end up talking in at like 4 in the morning
<troy_s> on jabber
<msikma> Yeah, same thing with Ourmedia.
<msikma> Ever been to that site?
<troy_s> and it isn't terribly democratic
<troy_s> if only a small number in xxx timezone make decsions
<troy_s> and ultimately, decisions are for polls, which brings me to 2) polling/agenda/deadlines/calendar -- launchpad
<troy_s> that gives us three items which strikes me as more than enough for now?
<troy_s> mailinglist (yay)
<troy_s> irc (great social)
<troy_s> launchpad (broken sucking bad locked irresponsive)
<troy_s> let me try something
<Firebird8> omg
<Firebird8> talknig
<msikma> At Ourmedia.org, we had IRC meetings. We just had to cope with some of us chatting at either a very late our or in the middle of the day when he's supposed to be working.
<msikma> *hour instead of our.
<msikma> I used to be admin on it for a while but it just wasn't going anywhere. :( Still isn't.
<troy_s> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-artwork
<troy_s> interesting :)
<troy_s> we will need to contact them and find out if we can sync
<msikma> Woah
<msikma> They already have one :P
<msikma> I really like the new Edubuntu background.
<msikma> Could be a little more polished, but a very neat concept.
<msikma> I'm gonna stop working for a sec so I can see my under-21 national football team play.
<msikma> See you around.
<bersace> should we work with other artwork team ?
<troy_s> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-artwork
<troy_s> well considering i can't
<troy_s> bloody 
<troy_s> get in touch with this well formed existing launchpad tem
<troy_s> try that one
<troy_s> bersace
<troy_s> you will become an admin level as well... but it is moderated
<troy_s> hopefully by all of us
<troy_s> try it now
<bersace> so there is two launchpad artwork team :)
* bersace pending approval
<bersace> I prefer ubuntu-artwork to ubuntu-art
<bersace> you should rely it to ubuntu-art
<troy_s> well
<troy_s> i would if ANYONE cared
<troy_s> but no one emails
<troy_s> anyways
<troy_s> yer on now et
<troy_s> let's see what we can do
<troy_s> if this is going to work
<troy_s> several folks need to admin it.
<troy_s> let me look now
<troy_s> hey firebird
<troy_s> you here?
<troy_s> i see you applied for membership
<bersace> yep
<bersace> yop
<troy_s> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-artwork
<troy_s> how did they get that little logo there?
<troy_s> we need to get one up
<bersace> What does JoelM do  ?
<troy_s> good question
<troy_s> try sending him email
<troy_s> you are an admin now too et
<troy_s> democratic no?
<troy_s> now we need to get a few more folks there.
<bersace> Chang emblem
<bersace> :)
<bersace> thanks
<troy_s> nice
<troy_s> now we get email updates@!!!!!
<troy_s> how pretty is that!
<troy_s> wow... how useful.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : Welcome to the Ubuntu Artwork Team's channel -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam -- New updates for Launchpad.  Please head there.
<troy_s> ok added a few more folks that i could find
<troy_s> going to try to add the rest of our folks who submitted via the mailing list
<troy_s> it failed
<troy_s> yer an admin, you can fix it.
<troy_s> ok... enough admins to start.
<troy_s> at least that relieves the bottleneck
<bersace> done
<bersace> https://launchpad.net/people/potentialspam
<bersace> :)
<bersace> troy_s: ping
<troy_s> greetz brother
<troy_s> the calendar is pretty cool.
<troy_s> aw cute...
<troy_s> now how did the edubuntu team get that big logo at the top>?
<troy_s> http ref?
<bersace> i'm doing a similar
<troy_s> nice work ber.
* troy_s is out for a bit.
<bersace> troy_s: why who isn't admin ?
<bersace> why so much admin people ?
<bersace> who is in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/People
<troy_s> we need many admins
<troy_s> to make polls/calendar and such get worked out.
<bersace> you're right
<bersace> but where is the limit ?
<bersace> :)
<bersace> we should have done this before the poll :)
<bersace> troy_s: done ! https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-artwork
<Lauren1> Anybody?
<Lauren1> Test
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-28
<troy_s> who lives?
<troy_s> hello who
<Who_> hiya
<Who_> you know I didn't even know there was an edubuntu-art team!
<troy_s> exactly!
<troy_s> i just sent off to their admin
<troy_s> i am trying to coordinate a little while i have some time off.
<troy_s> and before i head off to paris.
<troy_s> it would be appreciated if people would post their opinions on the direction to the mailing list.
<troy_s> who, give the launchpad site a test, billy says it is broken, but it works fine for me.
<troy_s> if it works for you, we can assume it works.
* troy_s is out for a bit.
<Who_> I'm just drafting an email to the group suggesting that kind of thing should be discussed first...
<Who_> I don't know that we needed another group, though I'm glad you took the inititive to do _something_!
<Who_> especially things like who has what role on Launchpad...
<bersace> troy_s: you go to paris ?
<bersace> i live in paris
<Who_> Where in Paris? I was there a few weeks ago
<bersace> Who_: Paris XII
<bersace> near Gare de Lyon
<bersace> Bercy
<bersace> Bibliothque Franois Mitterand
<Who_> Ahh, that helps :) My girlfriend and I went to a film at MK2, someome told us it had 'sofas' but we were a little underwhelmed
<Who_> Anyone seen this bug - it is hilarious
<Who_> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/45241
<troy_s> hello
<troy_s> yes i am going to paris
<troy_s> sorry guys, i was across the street
<troy_s> anything been happening?
<troy_s> more insanity on the mailing list?
<Who_> have a look :)
<Who_> we got our first few bugs assigned to us
<troy_s> oh lord that is hilarious
<troy_s> really?
<troy_s> oh MAN that is hilarious.
<Who_> yea, I caouldn't berlieve it!
<Who_> I'm just attempting a new close icon
<Who_> but Inkscape keeps crashing!
<Who_> in fact, wouldn't it just be better to revert the close icon?
<Who_> Anyone got any optinions on the close icon?
<troy_s> hey who
<troy_s> are you interested in sharing the volume i would expect?
<troy_s> cuz we have admins
<troy_s> and i basically stuck everyone who had the ability to 
<troy_s> sign up to the list on the admins sheet
<troy_s> i think it is easier if everyone shares...
<troy_s> anyways...
<troy_s> need to add a task to launchpad
<troy_s> henrik has a request.
<troy_s> hey et
<troy_s> i think we should add it as a specification with a link to the wiki
<troy_s> i just put an anchor in there.
<Who_> am I missing something - what should we add as a specification?
<Who_> and what is 'sharing the volume you would expect'?
<Who_> ahh, yea, I got you :)
<Who_> I tried an I couldn't think of anything that fitted better there - the only thing that looked vaugely ok was a 'rising' logo (like a rising sun) that you could see half of...
<troy_s> i added one
<troy_s> check the laucnchpat
* troy_s is out for a bit...
<Who_> how long did it take?
<troy_s> not long
<troy_s> about three seonds
<troy_s> we need to spread the word
<troy_s> at least, try to get the edubuntu folks on board too as they apparently create.
<bersace> troy_s: what do you think about viper550 Frozen theme ?
<troy_s> haven't looked at it... i think it is far far far down the list to be evaluating themes, but at least he is accomplishing something.
<troy_s> only glanced at it.
<troy_s> i am personally fond of rounded windows.
<troy_s> hey bersace
<bersace> yep ?
<troy_s> can you figure out how to mail everyone in the list?
<troy_s> on the ubuntu-artwork 
<troy_s> team listing?
<bersace> don't understand what you want ?
<troy_s> it would be useful to point everyone to new tasks (listed under specifications)
<troy_s> well have a peep
<troy_s> i put the henrik task
<troy_s> into the wiki
<bersace> i read
<troy_s> and posted it as a feature request spec (as close as it is useful right now)
<bersace> i may do something monday
<troy_s> but it didn't notify the team yet...
<bersace> (here, it's sunder 2 am)
<troy_s> which means that people don't know that a task needs attacking.
<bersace> sunday
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> yah
<troy_s> but all i want to know is that the launchpad system is working
<troy_s> apparently bugs work fine :)
<troy_s> but we need to know when someone dumps a task
<bersace> did you saw ubuntu-artwork hackergotchi ?
<troy_s> ???
<troy_s> no
<troy_s> what?
<bersace> the big logo
<bersace> on lp/u-a
<bersace> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-artwork
<troy_s> oh yah
<troy_s> its cute.
<bersace> as you saw at /People, i can do web artwork
<bersace> did you read WideTheme ?
<troy_s> yep
<bersace> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content/WideThemeDraft
<bersace> thanks for renaming
<bersace> i forgot the "Web design" in the distributor part
<bersace> and henrik give us the proof that this is part of our work :)
<bersace> added
<bersace> let's have a rest
<bersace> see you monday
<troy_s> heyas mad
<Madpilot> hi troy_s 
<troy_s> moved your draft to contents
<troy_s> hope you don't mind too much
<troy_s> i think et had a go at it.
<troy_s> someone else offer henrik a few options?
<Madpilot> my draft of what?
<Who_> troy_s: How do I attach something to the wiki?
<Madpilot> Who_, look at the dropdown menu by the "Edit" link
<Madpilot> top of every page
<Who_> thankee
<Who_> seems weird that menu isn't there when you're editing - unless I'm missing it  (happened once, can happen again!)
<Madpilot> I don't think it is. You've got to save your current edit to attach an image.
<Madpilot> then edit again to actually get your image (or the link to it) visible.
<Who_> yea, a little convoluted - but seems to work ok
<troy_s> it is at least a step
<troy_s> how's everyone?
<troy_s> jabber server been up and down all day... driving me nuts.
<troy_s> 19:43:59) Who_: troy_s: How do I attach something to the wiki?
<troy_s> You can also 
<troy_s> type
<troy_s> attachment:name_whatever.blah
<troy_s> and it will give you a link to attach stuffs.
<Who_> nice
<Madpilot> nice trick - thanks, troy_s 
<troy_s> i didn't know there was an edit command :)
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> well you learn something every day
<troy_s> is that the image henrik wants???
<troy_s> it isn't terribly clear... but it would be nice if everyone could contribute something
<troy_s> i'm sure mich will...
<Who_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content/Sandbox
<Who_> I have updated mine quite a bit
<Who_> thoughts?
<Madpilot> what are these tabs for? The main website?
* Madpilot has evidently missed an email somewhere...
<Who_> indeed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Tasks
<Madpilot> ah, for the front page. Cool.
<troy_s> Just updated
<troy_s> someone posted a bug to the group
<Who_> which bug? the close button one?
<Who_> cos that isn't really us who can solve it
<troy_s> did you read the 
<troy_s> comments?
<Madpilot> on the sandbox page, who did the righthand tab?
<Madpilot> we're not supposed to be rotating the Ubuntu logo as was done there, just fyi
<troy_s> ???
<troy_s> where
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Content/Sandbox - righthand of the two tab images
<troy_s> ahh i see your point
<troy_s> you had best leave a comment mad
<troy_s> i think who is still here
<Who_> oh, really
<Who_> thanks
<Who_> I'm just about to go to bed - the birds have started singing!
<Who_> it really looks worse otherwise. No matter, I'll submit another
<Madpilot> comment left
<troy_s> thanks mad
<troy_s> you running dapper mad?
<Madpilot> not yet
<Madpilot> might upgrade on Monday, to beat the massive rush on the servers on the 1st
<troy_s> yah...
<troy_s> cuz the box icon is cropped
<troy_s> but i can't realistically see how scaling it wouldn't fix it.
<Who_> box icon?
<troy_s> yah its the close box icon
<troy_s> for tabs
<troy_s> in gaim
<troy_s> epiphany
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> it incorrectly gets cropped
<Who_> yea, I would have called it the close icon ;)
<Who_> And imho it isn't very nice either!
<Who_> I think if they want to orangify it then they should use trans bg with orange cross...
<Who_> or perhaps they just need to work out the sizing. 
<Who_> right.bed for me. talk soon
<DShepherd> hey
<DShepherd> :-)
<troy_s> greetings
<DShepherd> i have a query about the defualt ubuntu theme..
<DShepherd> are you the guys responsible for the human theme?
<troy_s> probably want to direct it to the mailing list.
<troy_s> that seems to be the most appropriate place currently.
<DShepherd> ok
<troy_s> you know where to find it eh?
<DShepherd> mailing list please :-)
<DShepherd> i could dig..
<troy_s> wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam
<troy_s> try that
<DShepherd> or you could tell me
<troy_s> hopefully it is clear.
<DShepherd> ok
<DShepherd> troy_s: you running dapper? with the ubuntu default theme?
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> slightly modified bars
<troy_s> but yah
<DShepherd> how u liking the orange close icon?
<troy_s> what's up?
<DShepherd> in gedit
<DShepherd> and gaim
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> let me guess
<troy_s> the close down boxes
<troy_s> the orange x thing
<troy_s> ?
<troy_s> laf... sorry, scrolled back and saw it.
<troy_s> it's been listed as a bug
<troy_s> i suspect someone will scale it appropriately.
<troy_s> or alter it back.
<troy_s> there is some issue between the image size and the proper drawing in gtk
<DShepherd> oh thank the Heavens..
<DShepherd> cause i was getting worried
<troy_s> but don't take my word for it.
<troy_s> i think it needs to be addressed
<troy_s> locating the exact folks is a bit tricky...
<troy_s> gtk bug might be a good start.
<DShepherd> troy_s: ok
<DShepherd> someone has to see it.. its so obvious.. and so not kool.
<DShepherd> ubuntu has to be kool.. my eyes depend on it
<DShepherd> s/on/upon
<troy_s> yep.  agree
* troy_s goes off to sleepy time.  Night all...
<msikma> Hey guys
<msikma> The mailing list sure has become a little difficult to read overnight. Lots of people talking about all kinds of things, v550 again working on a new theme, website artwork requests...
* msikma is gone for the rest of the day
<seb27842> I got some questions about the Ubuntu Palette
<seb27842> maybe someone here could help me
<lapo> try to ask
<klepas> moin
<lapo> ciao klepas, how do you do?
<klepas> ah, alright
<klepas> i'll be right back
<seb27842> What are the blue and the green colours on the palette for?
<seb27842> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-palette.png
<lapo> for blue and green stuff? :-)
<seb27842> and that is
<seb27842> good answer :)
<seb27842> It's just that I have not seen much blue and green stuff in ubuntu or at the webpage
<klepas> the colour palette is not restricted to the warm brown and orange tones
<klepas> well look at the destkop :)
<klepas> there is some blue and gree within the icons and so forth
<klepas> for example the Applications menu
<klepas> icons such as Accessability or Sound and Video feature prominent amounts of blue
<troy_s> greetz all
<troy_s> hey klepas
<troy_s> can you document that at the wiki in short form?
<troy_s> perhaps under agenda / dapper opinions
<klepas> not at the moment
<klepas> i prefer not to touch the wiki or launchpad until post dapper
<troy_s> ok.   that's unfortunate.
<klepas> with the current level of chaos i am going to wait until things get organised
<troy_s> well the organization isn't going to manifest out of the ether.
<troy_s> and thus far, there hasn't been many strides made to push things forwards.  i would suggest that if everyone picked up a small portion of the work, things can get back on track.
<klepas> post dapper
<troy_s> i have contacted henrik and am working to resolve a few issues
<klepas> we will meet and discuss this
<troy_s> the need for cohesive artwork team contribution goes on.
<troy_s> and a meeting is fine, but it needs to be organized.  launchpad's joel hasn't responded to the poll request by mark, so i suggest that everyone else needs to pick up the slack.
<seb27842> "there is some blue and gree within the icons and so fort" yes there is ;)
<seb27842> What is highlight, base, medium, accent, toner and shadow?
<seb27842> What are they used for?
<klepas> for example, highlights are the colours used for the glassy effects on the reflective properties of icons
<klepas> shades are... shades
<klepas> and so forth :)
<seb27842> Maybe you could explain medium, accent and toner to me. I tried to look up accent in a dictionary but couldn't find the right definition :)
<troy_s> Clarity certain is required.
<seb27842> Were you talking to me?
<troy_s> seb:  Yes I think we need to get some more specifics regarding that rather outdated official artwork guide.
<seb27842> ok, but the color palette, is it outdated?
<troy_s> Well it is still listed as the 'official'.
<troy_s> So as a community, we can only assume such.
* troy_s is out for a bit.
<seb27842> I still need to know what medium, accent and toner is?
<klepas> seb27842: which page are you getting this from? :)
<seb27842> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-palette.png
<Firebird8> why is this channel not registered...
<Firebird8> http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4461/rythm5uv.png <rythm box icon
<Firebird8> hello
<troy_s> greetz firebird
<troy_s> sorry... not exactly at the box.
<Firebird8> hm?
<Firebird8> no no
<Firebird8> just for fun
<troy_s> You following the mailing list?
<Firebird8> yea
<troy_s> I suspect that a meeting is to happen shortly, if all the bickering can subside.
<Firebird8> mail listings are the bug reports?
<Firebird8> what will happen to the ubuntu wiki artwork team?
<troy_s> nothing 
<troy_s> i just hope that everyone who can participate intermittently will 
<troy_s> manifest
<troy_s> there is a lot of information that is outdated etc
<troy_s> and it will need some attention
<Firebird8> where is the human window border files kept
<troy_s> window borders are the domain of metacity i believe...
<troy_s> you can tweak using widget factory
<Firebird8> widget factory...
<troy_s> www.gnome-look.org has a pretty good repository
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> check the link in teh wiki that etienne established
<troy_s> it shows widget factory at work
<troy_s> and gnome-look should help you get it compiled.
<Firebird8> ive seen it
<Firebird8> it reqiures compiling
<troy_s> because I don't believe it is in the repos.
<Firebird8> :|
<troy_s> although it is probably somewehre
<troy_s> compiling is no big deal
<troy_s> you will enjoy it once you get your way around it.
<Firebird8> last time i tried it failed
<troy_s> you will need build-essential
<Firebird8> got it
<troy_s> yah... i'd step you thru it but i am out the door
<troy_s> let me see if i can find you alink
<Firebird8> so ubuntu is set to realease July 1st
<troy_s> generally though,
<troy_s> when you engage in compiling
<troy_s> the easiest thing is to try a
<troy_s> ./configure
<troy_s> make
<troy_s> make install
<troy_s> when make fails,
<troy_s> it is usually because you are missing a dependency
<troy_s> and HOPEFULLY that depend is in the repository
<troy_s> and will just require adding
<troy_s> dependency-dev
<Firebird8> http://www.ubuntu.com/include/testing/flight5/ubuntulooks-big.png < that thing
<troy_s> is the title
<troy_s> yup
<Firebird8> mmm no link
<troy_s> http://www.stellingwerff.com/?p=9
<troy_s> try there...
<Firebird8> found it
<troy_s> and start with your first error
<troy_s> work your way through compiling error by erry
<troy_s> i'll offer you help when i am back bro.
<troy_s> out for a while...
<troy_s> take care.
<Firebird8> makeing
<Firebird8> bye
<Firebird8> theres a slight problem with the network connection monitor
<Firebird8> icon
<msikma> There is?
<msikma> What kind of problem?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-21
<troy_s> darkmatter: Did you get hte message?
<darkmatter> troy_s, nope.. didn't get it
<nothlit> lol you guys are on such a huge time delay
<darkmatter> nothlit, yeah... I was away from the 'puter
<troy_s> darkmatter: Try to join that channel
<darkmatter> yup
<darkmatter> just did
<darkmatter> added to autojoin ;)
<darkmatter> troy_s, even though it still needs the proper panel buttons and the check/radio and listheaders. the alpha of the gtk is basically done
<darkmatter> if ya want I'll tarball it for ya
<troy_s> darkmatter: Yes!
<troy_s> darkmatter: Immediately
<troy_s> darkmatter: I want to take a shot to show you the colours for some minor tweaks.
<darkmatter> troy_s, theres two, so I'll pack them both in the same archive... so manually extract. the purple thingy is like a 2 minute test for the colour direction.. should be more honey/plum, but whatever
<darkmatter> tarballing now
<troy_s> darkmatter: Yous houdl caht
<troy_s> darkmatter: with _mma_ first
<darkmatter> kk
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<Baby> hi :)
<troy_s> hi Baby
<Baby> cu later, i'll be away for a while :) but i'll be back!
<Baby> back
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-22
<Jang1> hey, can anybody help me with beryl?
* troy_s slits wrist.
<[1] Ravenseye> hello all, good evening :)
<troy_s> hello
<[2] Ravenseye> hi troy
<[2] Ravenseye> so, how in the world did I get cloned....
<[2] Ravenseye> well..that cleared that up nicely :)
<[2] Ravenseye> Whats going on troy?
<troy_s> uh
<troy_s> in what regard?
<[2] Ravenseye> in the general "Hi How ya doing?" regard...
<[2] Ravenseye> just general chit chat really :) I didn't mean to bother ya if I did. I apologise if I did.
<Baby> hi :)
<Baby> hi, anyone awake? :)
<troy_s> Baby: what do you need?
<Baby> artwork, of course... my I explaing what I'm myself into? :)
<troy_s> Baby: Sorry?
<konam_> hi, someone knows how to create a .deb package of a theme?
<troy_s> konam_: You are better off in MOTU
<troy_s> konam_: The true debian package wizards lurk there...
<Baby> I've packaged Ren'Py ( http://www.renpy.org/ ) some days ago, and I wanted to create a free set of characters, especially to be used in educationally-oriented games
<troy_s> Baby: Interesting... well that would require someone with decent illustration skills or else it will end up looking like much else out there (rather ... not so good)
<troy_s> Baby: Unfortunately, there aren't a terrific number of illustrators out there in this sort of crowd.  What styling are you looking for on the characters -- Anime?
<Baby> yup, kinda anime
<Baby> I want to be targetting kids around 12-16
<Baby> yup i know i need someone who decent skills... it wouldn't come out so good if i did it myself
<troy_s> Baby: Unfortunately, I have seen possibly 2-3 folks who are capable artists in terms of anything beyond manipulating gradients or copying real world objects...
<troy_s> Baby: Anime is also a specific niche, perhaps try some of the other channels or browse deviant art for someone with a decent set of drawing skills related in particular to anime.
<Baby> yup, that might be the last resort
<troy_s> Baby: first resort
<Baby> as artists are quite reluctant to allowing modification or unlimited usage of their art
<troy_s> Baby: No... there are quite a few out there who would be open to say, cc by sa
<troy_s> Baby: not many know of the licensing issues.
<troy_s> Baby: those that generally don't want you muddling with their work probably don't have work worth muddling with anyways.
<troy_s> Baby: as it is a self - security rooted ideal.
<Baby> cc-by-sa would be nice, in fact i want to try to make  some cc-by-sa into debian and see what happens
<troy_s> Baby: I think what might go a long way is to perhaps draft up a list of what would be 'ideal'
<troy_s> Baby: As you aren't just asking for anime -- you are asking for a very action / verb neutral form of anime
<troy_s> Baby: A girl with a fish in her hand isn't quite as much use as just the girl -- correct?
<Baby> yup
<Baby> right
<Baby> i know it's quite difficult
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-23
<darkmatter> troy_s, anybody, opinions on inactive tabs? http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=510547713&size=o
<nothlit> darkmatter: tabs are buttons? :o
<nothlit> doh, nm
<darkmatter> lol
<nothlit> those look more like the old morning glory style
<nothlit> they're a little weak and flat for this style
<darkmatter> kk
<lapo> hi
<dilomo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-24
<thorwil> hi! does there exist an ubuntu font type, or the is the logo text outline only?
<kwwii> there is an installable font
<kwwii> ubuntu-title is the name
<kwwii> but the font is not the best
<thorwil> kwwii: ty. could you expand on 'not the best'? :)
<kwwii> it is simply not a very high quality font
<nothlit> its been improved lately and added uppercase though
<nothlit> i don't think that version's in the repos
<thorwil> ooh, seems there are more than 2 versions
<thorwil> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-art-titlefont
<nothlit> that otherone only concerns you if you want to use something other than english
<thorwil> actually, i likely only need an u, a c and a k, if at all :)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<darkmatter> troy_s, lapo, plus the issue isn't so much one of the pixmap engine as it is lazy coding with gtk apps (and/or poorly document use of gtk in a given app,, take your pick)
<darkmatter> the problem is that a lot of applications... even the *lofty* HIG compliant ones dont make proper use of gtk
<darkmatter> programmers zig when they should zag, etc... basically use cheap n hackish code on the ui level
<darkmatter> which is why some apps are real bastards when it comes to pixmap
<darkmatter> an app I keep using a reference (just because the use of gtk is so hackish) is Listen
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-25
<elkbuntu> hmph... when did open clip art go down?
<eternalswd> anyone know what the "Mark All Upgrades" and "Apply" icons from Synaptic are called in terms of gnome icon theming, HighContrast-SVG iconset seems to not have them
<coz_> eternalswd,  can you explain that just got here
<coz_> eternalswd, the mark all upgrades and apply are not going to be part of the gnome icon sets
<coz_> eternalswd, i believe they are hard coded but not sure
<coz_> anyway must go
<lapo> hi
<troy_s> greets lapostein
<troy_s> how you doing lapo ?
<lapo> hey troy_s, everything fine here icy rain apart :-)
<troy_s> eek
<bersace> troy_s: hi bro
<troy_s> bersace: Greets pal... how you been?
<bersace> anyone has an idea of art goals for gutsy ?
<bersace> except improving ubuntu-title ?
<bersace> troy_s: i'm very very fine
<bersace> gnome-scan rocks so much
<bersace> multithreaded, plugins, dynamic UI, 
<bersace> i wish to produce an alpha release during June
<troy_s> wow nice.
<bersace> if you have some times to spend
<bersace> i publish packages for feisty i386
<bersace> deb http://bersace03.free.fr/ubuntu feisty universe
<bersace> gnome-scan uses Gegl
<bersace> The future of Gimp for processing image
<bersace> i even commit some patches to Gegl :D
<bersace> http://gegl.org/
<bersace> Gegl is to image what GStreamer is for time based multimedia
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-26
<walkintome> Does anyone know if there are any available design opportunities for Ubuntu? I'm a designer who would really like to lend a hand to the team. http://halfwayglad.deviantart.com Here's some of the stuff I've done if there are any people here. I know it's all based on existing stuff, but I offer my online portfolio to demonstrate the quality. I am very creative and hardworking and would love to have the opportunity to design 
<Madpilot> Does anyone know offhand where the system keeps it's icon artwork? I'm looking for the Human iconset.
* Flackrum is getting emotional over how great ubuntustudio looks.
<darkmatter> Madpilot, /usr/share/icons
<Madpilot> found it - thanks, though
<darkmatter> lol
<troy_s> yet more ubuntustudio raves... :)
<darkmatter> troy
<darkmatter> troy_s, it may be a mac port.. but you may appreciate the nature of this
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=514340463&size=o
<troy_s> darkmatter: Quite cool... that yours?
<darkmatter> nope... thats my fav mac theme.. lyrae ported it to gnome
<darkmatter> did a damn good job too.. only thing thats missinbg is the embossing on the menus
<darkmatter> they look like parchment in the actual mac version with a nice wallpaper pattern
<darkmatter> but these are just off white :/
<darkmatter> troy_s, but something like that, with the wooden menus and toolbars blended in.. the palette you sent.. and the overall look you wanted for ubun2.. but with the more appropriate mahogany-ish/amberish shades to the would and the down/up/x metacity stuff and the mistish buttons could be really slick
<darkmatter> and your paper texture for the main window stuff
<darkmatter> troy_s, at any rate, I'm stealing the rc... thats almost perfect padding
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-27
<ljsmithx> hello
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-19
<kwwii> moin moin
<DanaG> Huh?
<DanaG> Random: /me is a unicode addict:
<DanaG> ï»¿Running with â.  And throwing ï»¿â at stuff.  I â¥ Unicode!
<kwwii> :-)
<DanaG> Oh, what fun can be had in gucharmap.
<DanaG> And in the scim-tables-additional "LATEX" table.
<nothlit`core> kwwii: cory's looking for you btw
<thebishop> hello
<thebishop> to what extent is Ubuntu reaching out to the DeviantArt and/or Flickr communities?
<troy_s> thebishop: This isn't about DeviantArt nor Flickr.
<thebishop> its about ubuntu artwork, right?
<thebishop> i was talking to some graphic designers over the weekend and they are all OSX/Photoshop users.  with so many FOSS projects in need of more attractive artwork, it seems those social networks could help a lot
<troy_s> thebishop: No, it is not.
<troy_s> thebishop: The issue of which you speak is execution.
<troy_s> thebishop: Execution is a far ways along the line.
<troy_s> thebishop: Before execution, one must have the proper environment to permit execution to happen.
<thebishop> i'm not sure i follow
<troy_s> thebishop: And that is part of the problem.
<troy_s> thebishop:  1) "in need of more attractive artwork"  More attractive -- define?
<troy_s> 2) Even if you arrive at a satisfactory answer, the following question would be "Is it desired?"
<thebishop> you don't think there's a perception that Ubuntu and/or linux in general is still fairly bland to look at?  Compiz notwithstanding
<thebishop> i show it to my friends and they thing the effects are cool, but widgets, window borders and icons need improvement
<troy_s> thebishop: That is a rather grossly oversimplified statement.
<thebishop> "improvement"
<thebishop> ?
<troy_s> thebishop: Improvement.  Again, it isn't that I disagree with you, but you seem to think that it is a simple thing to 1) achieve 2) implement given a particular culture.
<troy_s> thebishop: It is a vacuous term.
<thebishop> i never said that
<thebishop> more what i'm getting at is making Ubuntu/gnu/linux an attractive platform for artists the way it is currently a very attractive platform for coders
<troy_s> thebishop: Ok... _now_ you are speaking more clearly
<troy_s> thebishop: But you also said "Ubuntu", which would be Ubuntu 'main' correct?
<thebishop> which may also have the upstream benefit of more icon sets, themes, UI ideas, etc being available to everyone
<troy_s> thebishop: That is more dealt with by the 'is it desired' question.  ;)  Remember, the bulk of the developers and such are quite happy with Tango.
<thebishop> and Tango doesn't go away if other options are available
<thebishop> i certainly don't think Tango is bad
<troy_s> thebishop: Sure.  And to that end there is nothing stopping you from developing an icon set.
<thebishop> i'm a coder, not an graphic designer
<troy_s> thebishop: That probably makes things more difficult.
<troy_s> thebishop: So I guess we have "improvement" that would be directed at someone.
<thebishop> right, which brings us back to the original question
<troy_s> thebishop: a UI idea that is directed at someone
<thebishop> is there any outreach to the big social networks for artwork
<troy_s> thebishop: and an icon set that is both directed at someone _and_ that someone else will need to complete.
<troy_s> thebishop: You still are missing the point unfortunately.  1) There is nothing stopping you from creating something / reaching out / etc.
<troy_s> thebishop: 2) There is the question of audience.  Who is this for?  Will it work?  As well as other complications.
<troy_s> thebishop: 3) The question of whether or not the people who own and run the projects desire it.
<troy_s> thebishop: See a few problems / complications yet?
<thebishop> so long as the projects in question are theme-able and most of them are, it doesn't really matter if the maintainers/owners/contributers want it
<thebishop> and this is Free Software we're talking about
<thebishop> so "own" is a somewhat relative concept
<troy_s> thebishop: Sure... and that gets you back to my other statement.  "Go forth and create"
<thebishop> i think some organization would be more effective than an individual
<troy_s> thebishop: Then establish it.
<troy_s> thebishop: I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that the simplicity that you wish to see is simply non existent.
<thebishop> some already exist (Ubuntu art, Canonical, etc)
<thebishop> it seems like a question of marketing more than a technical issue
<thebishop> which has been a traditional weakness of Free Software
<thebishop> which is partly why such organizations are developed
<troy_s> thebishop:  And yet ubuntu grows at a tremendous pace regardless.
<thebishop> and that's great
<thebishop> but who is it attracting?
<troy_s> thebishop: Now you are starting to sound like me... ;)
<thebishop> ?
<DanaG> I use the Tangerine icons, myself.
<troy_s> thebishop: I couldn't answer your question for a start.
<troy_s> thebishop: I'd like to help you out, but thus far, I don't have anything concrete to help with.
<thebishop> well, there isn't an concrete answer
<thebishop> and i find coders generally don't want to talk about nontechnical questions
<troy_s> thebishop: Ok.
<thebishop> but i think if you look at Free Software, generally coders use it, so as a result, its generally secure, well-designed, robust featureset, etc
<thebishop> if more artists, musicians, directors, used it, we'd probably find those areas of the experience improve as well
<troy_s> <thebishop> if more artists, musicians, directors, used it, we'd probably find those areas of the experience improve as well
<troy_s> Amen.
<troy_s> thebishop: Better still, you gain the allegiance of some powerful and influential subcultures.
<thebishop> troy_s, so what do you think would convince creative-types to move from OSX to Ubuntu?
<troy_s> thebishop: Well they have... remember that about 99.9% of your top Hollywood box office hits were created on a Free Software platforms.
<troy_s> thebishop: The problem is that the tools are in-house (as they are with the video game industry as well)
<troy_s> thebishop: So it is two pronged.  1) tools.  2) posture.
<thebishop> what sort of posture?
<troy_s> thebishop: How open to the culture you appear -- which is what I believe you are, in the end, getting at.
<thebishop> that's certainly part of it
<troy_s> thebishop: Apple did / does a tremendous job of talking to that audience demographic.
<thebishop> but i think we have to be more proactive
<thebishop> right
<troy_s> thebishop: Being proactive is a good thing.  Again though, what you speak of is hideously complicated.  Ubuntu _also_ desperately needs developers and developer support.
<troy_s> thebishop: One could probably suggest that a 'remix' would work to this end -- in this case it would probably be Ubuntu Studio.
<troy_s> thebishop: It all starts and ends with audience.
<troy_s> thebishop: Right now, I believe we are going through the growing pains of learning that.  I have harped on and ranted about it for god knows how long.
<troy_s> thebishop: Unfortunately, it is something that people of the brain smarts that we have in our culture (extremely high) can't be told.  They must learn it for themselves.
<thebishop> the problem i see with ubuntu studio is that its designed to be overly utilitarian.  It makes total sense running Ardour as barebones as possible, but i think people want to work in a an environment that is visually appealing
<thebishop> ubuntu studio is the kind of thing you'd use in a production environment, not on your personal machine
<troy_s> thebishop: A rather big "I think" in there.  I honestly don't know.
<troy_s> Greetings thorwil
<thorwil> hi troy_s
<thorwil> heh, my personal machine is my production environment :)
<thebishop> heh
<thebishop> gnome-terminal is my production environment
<thebishop> i don't mean to put responsibility or blame on anyone, but i do think we're getting the point where technical competency isn't the bottleneck
<thebishop> there are problem non-coders who would be interested in facilitating these kinds of "postures"
<thebishop> :s/problem/probably
<thebishop> but for instance, mentioning what new features people want in Gimp can be a volatile conversation
<troy_s> thebishop: And that gets back to culture.
<troy_s> thebishop: It is one thing going from a culture where everyone is the culmination of scratching one's own itches to being responsive to the itches of others.
<thebishop> definitely
<thebishop> maybe there's a way to give nontechnical people tools to scratch their own itches, and also contribute back to the community
<thebishop> things like Screenlets for example
<Mariux> hi there
<troy_s> Hello Mariux
<Mariux> hi troy_s
<Mariux> maybe you can help me
<Mariux> i just subscribed the artwork mailing list
<Mariux> and now i want to create a Wiki page about me
<Mariux> how can i do this?
<troy_s> Mariux: Very easily.
<troy_s> Mariux: What is your Launchpad ID?
<Mariux> i've no Launchpad ID
<Mariux> do i need one?
<Mariux> how can i get it?
<troy_s> Mariux: Yes.  It will be what you logon to the Wiki using as well.
<troy_s> Mariux: Start by going to the Wiki to see if it is still set up with the Launchpad IDs...
<troy_s> Mariux: http://wiki.ubuntu.com
<Mariux> well but if i subscribed the mailing list using my email and then i'll use the same for launchpad can it works?
<troy_s> Mariux: It should.
<troy_s> Mariux: Just try logging into the Wiki
<Mariux> logging using my launchpad id?
<Mariux> or my email?
<troy_s> Mariux: Go to the wiki, and try to logon.  When it doesn't let you, sign up for an account.  It will do the rest.
<troy_s> Mariux:  in the past, it made you sign up at launchpad.
<troy_s> Mariux: I suspect it still will.
<Mariux> well but i already have an id on the wiki
<Mariux> that is Mariux3
<troy_s> Mariux: Then go to the page that you wish to create -- usually via launchpad it will be something like FirstnameLastname
<troy_s> so http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MariuxLastname
<Mariux> oh cool
<Mariux> nice
<troy_s> Mariux: Then simply click 'create page' and carry on.
<Mariux> THX:-D
<Mariux> only one question
<Mariux> if i want to logout as Mariux3 and login as Mariux how can i do this?
<troy_s> Mariux: Uh... when you created your user name did you try Mariux?
<troy_s> Mariux: If you did, and it was taken, you can't change your logon.  That would be a different account.
<Mariux> ah ok
<Mariux> probably mariux was already gone
<Mariux> thx ;-)
<troy_s> Mariux: Well try it.
<troy_s> Mariux: if it is taken, it will tell you.
<Mariux> but where can i logout?
<Mariux> sorry i can't find it
<troy_s> Mariux: It's ok.
<troy_s> Mariux: Top right generally on Ubuntu related places
<troy_s> Mariux: But it isn't exactly a consistent place... just look around.
<Mariux> ok thx
<Mariux> maybe i have to clear the cookies
<troy_s> Mariux: No... it shouldn't need it unless you set your browser to autologon.
<Mariux> yeah autologon  is set
<Mariux> everytime i open the wiki i'm logged as mariux3
<troy_s> Mariux: Hrm... under 'User Preferences" at the bottom above "First Time"
<troy_s> Mariux: Is the 'logout' button (great design)
<Mariux> ahahah ok thx
<Mariux> didn't see it
<Mariux> ;_)
<Mariux> thx again troy_s!!!!!!
<troy_s> Mariux: No problem friend.
<Mariux> only one thing
<Mariux> what is a wikiname?
<troy_s> Mariux: A term used to reference a wiki page.
<troy_s> Mariux: CamelCase works... as do underscores for spaces
<troy_s> Mariux: For example Space_Between or CamelCase
<Mariux> no ok
<troy_s> Mariux: That help?
<Mariux> well
<Mariux> so my username can be Mariux4 and my wikiname Mariux?
<Mariux> is this?
<troy_s> Your username isn't terribly relevant Mariux
<troy_s> Mariux: Your home page name is generally something like MariuxLastname
<troy_s> Mariux: Look at what Launchpad has attempted to autoset for you.
<troy_s> Mariux: But FirstnameLastname works
<troy_s> Mariux: Any other questions?  I must bolt out to get a new jar of India ink.
<Mariux> so if it's autoset to Mariux4 i have to create the wikipage Mariux4
<Mariux> correct?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-20
<kwwii> morning all
<andreasn> good morning kwwii
<andreasn> how is uds going
<andreasn> ?
<kwwii> andreasn: good, somewhat tired, but good :-)
<kwwii> sitting in on the desktop track all day
<andreasn> say hello to all from me
<kwwii> I'll do that...I have been really wishing that you were on our team :-(
<kwwii> missing you :p
<andreasn> yeah, it would have been cool to be there
<andreasn> perhaps next time
<kwwii> that would be nice
<kwwii> next time I should look into asking more people
<kwwii> as I can only invite one or two
<andreasn> what other artists except you are at UDS this time around?
<kwwii> nothlit and MMA are here, so no pure artists this time around
<nothlit`core> kwwii: font selector is in platform in a few minutes
<kwwii> nothlit`core: I am in a kde4 meeting atm
<kwwii> but I might come around in a bit
<nothlit`core> ah ok
<nothlit|UDS> well i think andrew hunter from uS does blender stuff, but besides that mostly ui programmers
<nothlit`core> shoot, i sent my UDS draft by accident somehow
<nothlit`core> you guys can read through it on the mailing list though
<Cimi> kwwii, I need a dev if you want transparency in time for intrepid
<ubuntuwestbengal> guys
<ubuntuwestbengal> check out the latest desktop submissions in the artwork wiki
<ubuntuwestbengal> for the intrepid cycle
<ubuntuwestbengal> anyone here?
<zniavr1> wich one is the last ?
<nothlit`core> lol
<nothlit`core> if you subscribe to a regex of Incoming/Intrepid you will get updates in your mail about that
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-21
<andreasn> kwwii: ping
<kwwii> andreasn: pong
<andreasn> kwwii: hi, how is uds going?
<kwwii> andreasn: pretty good, working on putting a dark theme in sometime either today or tomorrow
<andreasn> cool
<andreasn> as default?
<andreasn> I was intending to ask you how throbbers (in konqueror etc.) worked in kde, but I think I figured out
<andreasn> I was wondering if it would be neat to do throbbers in gnome and kde as apng's intead of just a bunch of frames. What do you think?
<kwwii> yepp, as default for intrepid...shouldn't be too much trouble as we are far from anyone really seeing it
<kwwii> hehe, it is a neat row of pics :-)
<kwwii> apng's?
<kwwii> andreasn: actually using one kind of throbber is a really good idea
<kwwii> so a distro could theme it easily
<andreasn> yeah, you know, animated png's, mozilla use that for firefox3
<kwwii> I never liked the linked frames thing anyway
<kwwii> ahhh, you mean mng's?
<andreasn> no, not quite, mng's was kind of a different format
<kwwii> oh wow, just googled that
<kwwii> never saw that before :p
<andreasn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apng
<andreasn> it's not mega-widespread I guess
<kwwii> we use mng's in the bootsplash, they are pretty similar
<kwwii> yeah, it is a simplified mng
<kwwii> sounds like a no-brainer
<kwwii> if the desktops have support for them, that is
<andreasn> we could always make sure they get support for it if not
<andreasn> my plan was for you to bug the qt people and me the gtk+ people :)
<kwwii> it would certainly make it much easier to test
<kwwii> yeah, I can poke some people and see what they think
<andreasn> great, thanks!
<kwwii> no problem, good idea! :-9
<kwwii> I'll get back to you once I know something
<andreasn> great, thanks!
<cody-somerville> Can someone make some artwork for the Ubuntu membership approval boards?
<cody-somerville> :)
<savvas> i'm picturing a large id card :P
<savvas> cody-somerville: what do you mean by artwork? logo?
<cody-somerville> Launchpad branding stuff
<savvas> cody-somerville: something like this? http://img356.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mugshotnr6.png
<cody-somerville> savvas, neat :)
<cody-somerville> savvas, Are you here at UDS?
 * cody-somerville admits that he has asked several people about this too : )
<savvas> what's UDS? :\
<cody-somerville> Ubuntu Developer Summit :)
<savvas> I'm not a developer :P
<cody-somerville> Not only developers come :)
<savvas> #ubuntu-devel-summit  is it?
<savvas> bah too bad i have my exams, I could've gone to prague!
<cody-somerville> :D
<savvas> hold a sec, I'll make 192x192 64x64 and 14x14 images
<savvas> hm.. the 14x14 is a bit rough
<nothlit`core> cody-somerville: hey cody, do you know which column in htop i would use to track the heap size the way you showed me in gnome-system-monitor?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-22
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<kwwii> moin moin
<thorwil> good morning, kwwii
<savvas> moinmo.in :)
<savvas> ballmer had some eggs thrown at him heh http://index.hu/tech/uzlet/ballmer08051
<njpatel> kwwii: hey, if you see cory, can you let him know that I'm stuck in meetings till 5:15, please
<kwwii> njpatel: sure, will do
<kwwii> he was just here
<njpatel> kwwii: thanks!
<smallfoot-> put shadow on my mouse you motherfuckers
<smallfoot-> i dont have shadow in my mouse
<smallfoot-> in windows i have shadow
<kwwii> smallfoot-: please do not use such language in this channel
<smallfoot-> ok sry
<smallfoot-> plz i want shadows in my mouse
<thorwil> smallfoot-: i'm not sure this is the right or only way
<thorwil> but in the device section of xorg.conf, there can be a
<thorwil> Option          "CursorShadow" "true"
<thorwil> Option          "SWCursor" "false"
<thorwil> Option          "HWCursor" "true"
 * thorwil goes to clean his bicycle
<savvas> smallfoot-: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/4976/
<smallfoot-> i even removed my mouse section from xorg.conf, it works better that way :D
<savvas> hm..
<savvas> how do we decode an xcursor file?
<savvas> convert it to png?
<savvas> weird
<savvas> why didn't they add the real source?
<savvas> smallfoot-: the dmz-cursor-theme actually has a shadow
<savvas> it's just really attached to the cursor :)
<smallfoot-> why use an xcursor instead of a png?
<smallfoot-> png have alpha transparency, high bit color, etc, its good
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-24
<zniavre> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=81682
<Mariux> hi there
<hbons> andreasn, kwwii: what do you think of the style on the right?
<hbons> http://bomahy.nl/hylke/wip/compare.png
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-25
<l3on> Hi all!
<l3on> I've downloaded newwave theme, and tried to install it by setup.py but it isn't the right way...
<l3on> someone can explain me how to install it? (note: I'm on Hardy!)
<garrinm> I just recently joined the ubuntu art team on launchpad and signed up to the mailing list. I'm a bit confused as to how all this works. How do I contribute? If someone says something needs to get done in an e-mail do I just try to do it and than answer with an image? Where should I submit work and where do I get others' contributions?
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-18
 * SiDi yawns
<knome> :)
<SiDi> knome: report almost finished :p
<SiDi> well, my part of it
<SiDi> i'm at ~35 pages on my own. the guys writing the part of the report for the work they were responsible of wrote ~2 pages each. We gotta print it tomorrow
<knome> hah
<SiDi> i hope the teachers will take it easy too
<SiDi> especially concerning my own mark :p
<knome> :P
<Viper550> hey
<phen-eee> hello
<Viper550> hey
<phen-eee> i'm new to this
<phen-eee> how do i upload a theme i've made?
<Viper550> what kind is it?
<phen-eee> it's a tar.gz file, with the gtk and metacity folders
<Viper550> art.gnone.org or gnome-look?
<phen-eee> i downloaded the original theme from gnome-look, if i remember correctly
<phen-eee> and then modified it
<Viper550> http://bayimg.com/image/dapfaaabm.jpg I already moved the highlight up a pixel, but anyway
<Viper550> hey guys
<robsta> hey
<robsta> thorwil, sorry for the slack, life's been crazy
<knome> life? what is that?
<robsta> should have said "work's been crazy"
<knome> :)
<thorwil> robsta, oh, hi robsta. i, on the other hand have to look for a new job
<robsta> thorwil: sorry to hear that
<thorwil> robsta, it's ok, this job sucked hard, anyway :)
<knome> haha
<knome> thorwil, what did you do then?
<thorwil> knome, bother entrepreneurs on the telephone
<knome> ouch.
<knome> you should head into doing something artistic.
<thorwil> =8-[]  really!
<knome> i suppose that would not be a problem.
<thorwil> so far you are wrong
<knome> i'd love to offer you some work to do, but at the moment that is impossible as i have to struggle myself.
<thorwil> a lot of people are struggling, currently
<thorwil> robsta, does the current gtk-css-engine work outside the widgetfactory?
<robsta> thorwil: not really
<thorwil> these should be up-to-date now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/GtkCssEngine
 * SiDi installs the engine.
<SiDi> libcroco, huh ?
<robsta> thanks thorwil
<thorwil> SiDi, that's needed for eating little children
<SiDi> meh:)
<robsta> SiDi: you have been warned
<SiDi> where can i get those git repositories ? port closed here :/
<robsta> SiDi: use git with http
<SiDi> im on it
<SiDi> which shall i take ? whats the current gnome version ? :/
<SiDi> master obviously x_x
<SiDi> theres no tarball :/
<SiDi> does anyone mind hosting some for me please ? :]
<robsta> because a tarball of a broken software doesn't make much sense
<thorwil> kwwii, lets kick coz DS from the list for having no clue about the ubuntu logo and the title/titling fonts ... after hanging on th list for more than long enough! ;)
<kwwii> thorwil: lol, yeah....just read that
 * thorwil -> dinner
<thorwil> good stuff and someone who listens: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/MeditatingKoala
<knome> nice
<kwwii> really nice that
<kwwii> thorwil: who posted that?
<thorwil> https://launchpad.net/~adrien-pilleboue
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-19
<sidi> hi
<thorwil> kwwii, hi. coz DS is killing me!
<SiDi> do we have an ubuntu-art group on gnome/xfce-look.org/freedesktop.org ?
<dashua> SiDi: When you get a chance try my bzr branch of Hanso, changed a few things.  Tell me what you think?
<dashua> Subtle, nothing crazy
<dashua> I'll try to work on a blue theme for knome this weekend.
<SiDi> okey
<SiDi> ive got time btw
<SiDi> printed my report today \o/
<dashua> Nice :)
<SiDi> only 2 exams next week so my days will be much much cooler from now :)
<dashua> I just opened my pool and it's going up to 90 this weekend :)
<SiDi> poll for what? :o
<SiDi> pool*
<dashua> Swimming
<SiDi> oh, i see :P
<SiDi> 90 fareinheit ?
<SiDi> cause 90 celsius, well, you'ld end up as a fried chicken :P
<SiDi> 231kB @    0kB/s ... this is bandwidth
<dashua> Oh yeah F
<dashua> http://images.appleinsider.com/snowleop-090518-3.jpg
<dashua> Snow Leopard is copying Hanso =/
<dashua> Let's beat them to it
<dashua> Just reverse
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/14649/screenshot_89yPMc.png
<dashua> Much better
<SiDi> the new hanso is overbroken with the xfce panels :D
<dashua> Ouch
<SiDi> its blatently planned for 24x panels
<SiDi> unfortunately mine is 28 :P
<dashua> Probably comment the bg_pixmap and uncomment the other
<dashua> That will probably fx it
<dashua> fix
<dashua> under panel
<dashua> I have it starting automatically now in GNOME
<dashua> C ya
<dashua> Off to work
<SiDi> see you
<SiDi> ping me when ure back
<SiDi> i'll give u comments on hanso :p spotted a few things already
<SiDi> Good night everyone
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-20
<pace_t_zulu> hello hello
<pace_t_zulu> any one around?
<pace_t_zulu> can somebody answer my questions/
<pace_t_zulu> ?
<pace_t_zulu> savvas: hello?
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/MeditatingKoala?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=necropotame_koala_light.png
<SiDi> ew, sweet
<thorwil> SiDi, drop everysthing from the ? off the url to see the page, if you havn't already
<thorwil> kwwii, what to do about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Alternate_Themeandpanel?
<thorwil> kwwii, i guess we rather don't want all themes on one page, right?
<SiDi> thorwil: i went there too. Just there wasnt this one last time :p
<elky> thorwil, the under-arm fur looks odd from a gravity perspective.
<thorwil> elky, hmm, true. do you feel like adding such a comment to the wiki?
<elky> done
<thorwil> :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-21
<SiDi> hi
<SiDi> dashua: the ubuntu mini 9 with ubuntu are 70â¬ cheaper than the windows ones atm \o:
<SiDi> anyone around ?
<SiDi_> In the end, the ubuntu-art LP team never got cleansed
<thorwil> SiDi_, we are at the end?
<SiDi_> yeh
<SiDi_> the end of the world
<SiDi_> kwwii: http://xfce-look.org/content/show.php?content=105366 updated the dust xfwm
<SiDi_> now exact replicate of the metacity :p
<thorwil> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2009/05/hands-on-intel-brings-rich-ui-to-moblin-linux-platform.ars
<SiDi_> why are themes split in gnome-themes-ubuntu and community-themes ? :/
<SiDi_> dust sand (complete) xfwm \o/ http://xfce-look.org/content/show.php?content=105368
<SiDi_> kwwii: zniavre dashua (any gnome user) ping ? :P
<xanax`> hello
<SiDi> hi
<SiDi> anyone who's alive ? thorwil ? :P
 * xanax` opens an eye
<SiDi> ah great :D
<SiDi> xanax`: tell me you're using gnome
<xanax`> i am
<SiDi> ok, can you please be kind enough to make a screenshot of GNOME with the Impression theme ?
<SiDi> it's in gnome-themes-ubuntu
<SiDi> and here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Impression
<SiDi> cause the screens there are resized, i need an actual size screenshot
<xanax`> bah.. i have problems with apt-get
<xanax`> i cant' install the theme.. my system is broken :-(
<SiDi> aw :O
<savvas> SiDi: http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7562/screenshotx.png
<SiDi> vheers :)
<SiDi> s/cheers/vheers
<savvas> actually hold a sec
<savvas> I'll login with the guest
<SiDi_> Sorry, mibbit crashed
<SiDi_> Thanks for the screenshot xanax`
<xanax`> heh... i haven't sent you the screenshot... savvas did
<SiDi_> oh
<SiDi_> thanks savvas then :p
<SiDi_> is there are difference between active and inactive windows btw ?
<savvas> brb
<savvas0> damn bugs
<savvas0> all over my desktop :P
<savvas0> SiDi_, http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7960/screenshotj.png
<SiDi_> savvas chers
<bencrisford1> When submitting wallpapers to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds
<bencrisford1> Can anyone submit to default?
<bencrisford1> and can I submit to default and extra?
<thorwil> bencrisford1, yes, anyone can
<thorwil> bencrisford1, submissions in default might be considered for extra
<thorwil> maybe also the other way
<bencrisford1> ok
<bencrisford1> my submission isnt very good as it is
<bencrisford1> but i hope to improve it
<bencrisford1> hopefully with some feedback from the rest of the team :)
<bencrisford1> thanks thorwil
<thorwil> np
<bencrisford1> is preferred format png or jpg thorwil?
<bencrisford1> because if necessary I can change
<SiDi> png
<thorwil> right
<bencrisford1> damn :P
<SiDi> I wish i had a photo camera :/ There is a wonderful place at ~30 kilometers from here which would be a perfect photo wallpaper :p
<bencrisford1> ill change when i get the chance, but for now if I upload a jpg is that ok?
<thorwil> SiDi, lend one
<thorwil> bencrisford1, sure
<SiDi> thorwil: i'll try to :p
<SiDi> or if i find a good job i'll buy one at the end of the summer
<bencrisford1> thorwil, SiDi: I need your advice
<bencrisford1> for a name: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=karmic-background.jpg
<bencrisford1> what would you name it?
<bencrisford1> I thought perhaps something like 'Wisdom'
<thorwil> bencrisford1, that will do
<bencrisford1> (and yes I know it needs alot of work, but thats my starting point, it will get better i hope)
<thorwil> bencrisford1, you're using a freely licensed image of a koala?
<bencrisford1> thorwil: Perhaps I should check :S
<thorwil> yeah
<thorwil> bencrisford1, you have to be careful with placing important stuff so close to the edge, as some of it might be clipped off if the wallpaper is used with another aspect ratio
<bencrisford1> thorwil: I don't know where the picture was originally uploaded to the web so I don't know how its licensed
<bencrisford1> important stuff...  hmm, well providing no more than an inch is cut off
<bencrisford1> the head'll be there
<bencrisford1> and it captures the wallpaper well
<thorwil> bencrisford1, clipping can happen in the other direction
<bencrisford1> all directions shouldnt effect it too badly in my opinion
<bencrisford1> but i might have a look at that
<thorwil> 1440 x 900, that is 8:5
<thorwil> there are both taller and wider aspects in use
<bencrisford1> I can scale it for other sizes
 * bencrisford1 tries to track down the webmaster of the site he got the picture off...
<thorwil> bencrisford1, if it gets packaged, it will be a single size (most likely) ...
<bencrisford1> oh :/
<thorwil> i made the templates at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Backgrounds#Template
<thorwil> for this reason
<bencrisford1> so I havent done a sterling job then :P
<thorwil> bencrisford1, don't worry
<thorwil> bencrisford1, it's all fine if you make each mistake only once ;)
<bencrisford1> well its my first main contribution really :P
<bencrisford1> ive been getting a sore arse from sitting on the fence
<bencrisford1> so i decided to get involved
<bencrisford1> :)
<bencrisford1> shall I put a little notice somewhere that im trying to find out the licensing of the photo, but its not confirmed yet?
<bencrisford1> or shall i not put add my submission
<bencrisford1> until its sorted
<thorwil> yes
<thorwil> wait until it's sorted
<bencrisford1> not add my submission? :(
<SiDi> bencrisford1: by the way
<SiDi> please dont use custom fonts when sending mails to the ML ;P
<thorwil> bencrisford1, please undersatnd that we have to be carful about copyright/licensing
<bencrisford1> I do understand
<bencrisford1> SiDi: Ah, sorry about that
<bencrisford1> I use yahoo for the ML
<bencrisford1> and i dont post much
<bencrisford1> Yahoo is very annoying
<bencrisford1> >:
<SiDi> well, its always weird to have one mail with a different font in the middle of the digest :)
 * bencrisford1 didnt mean to :P
<SiDi> when i began posting to MLs, i switched to gmail to get an ad-free webmail
<bencrisford1> yahoo is weird like that
<SiDi> But i'm still doing a lot of crap : posting with a Re : digest subject, or even worse, answering to people instead of the whole list
<thorwil> the digest is evil
<SiDi> yeh, but its even more evil to have tons of mails to read when im internet-less for 2 days
<thorwil> SiDi, how about having all list mail sorted in a folder? as good as a digest, without the Subject issue
<SiDi> thorwil: i actually use filters to label the emails
<SiDi> but im just upset by the amount of mails when i dont have digests, eventho i removed the digest mode for most of my mls
<bencrisford1> SiDi: I use gmail alot too now
<bencrisford1> but mainly evolution
<bencrisford1> brb
<SiDi> bencrisford1: i wish i could use a mail client ;)
<SiDi> seriously, they should kickban from opendesktop.org the guy who posted 82 ugly X11 icon themes in 10 days, all converted from customizeyourwindowscrap.com with a damn script
<SiDi> xfce-look turned into crappywindowsiconthemes-look.org because of him
<Viper550> so for this other distro, I'm trying to aim at a 7-like look for our KDE 4 desktop
<SiDi> i honnestly dont find it that fantastic
<SiDi> the window's transparency is sexy, the panel too, but the icons are really ugli-ish
<Viper550> Ark Linux specifically. We're kinda trying to regen for KDE 4 - dumping Kynaptic and such
<Viper550> we REALLY wanna use kpackagekit
<Viper550> hey
<Viper550> I'm working on KDE 4, and potential default desktops for a distro using it
<Viper550> kwwii, you there?
<kwwii> Viper550: no, I am at a week long canonical meeting before UDS, so I am not really here
<kwwii> I have not read emails for the last 4 days
<Viper550> oh
<kwwii> and this is my first chance to join chat
<kwwii> I will be online as of the weekend, latest
<SiDi> heya kwwii :p
<kwwii> send me an email if it is really important
<kwwii> hey SiDi
<SiDi> do they let you eat and drink during your meeting ?
<kwwii> hehe, not unless everyone else at the company is also alon g
<kwwii> many of out meetings are in rooms without internet
<kwwii> so that nobody can go online and miss things
<kwwii> anyway, time for sleep now
<kwwii> see you all soon, I hope
<SiDi> good night then
<SiDi> hope its not too hawt in barcelona :p
<Viper550> we're plotting out kinda a "calm before the" and "storm" themes for Ark Linux on KDE 4
<Viper550> so for Ark Linux, I was kinda thinking about a thunderstorm motif for our kde 4 desktop
<SiDi> i dont think you'll find many KDE4 fans here honnestly
<Viper550> SiDi, anyway...its probably going to be some storm based motif
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-22
<SiDi> i dont even know what ark linux is
<SiDi> the last kde distro i wanted to try appeared to have an EULA
<SiDi> i didnt read it, i deleted the iso and vm virtual disk immediately
<Viper550> http://arklinux.org/ RPM-based, but uses APT
<Viper550> base install is pretty much kdebase and such on a disk
<Viper550> we have few gtk components in our repos
<BHSPitMonkey> Viper550, *why* rpm-based?
<BHSPitMonkey> You better have a good reason.
<Viper550> bero thinks its easier to make RPM packages
<BHSPitMonkey> wtf
<Viper550> but hey we have apt
<BHSPitMonkey> I know it's exciting and all, but is there a real point to spinning off a new distro?
<BHSPitMonkey> You're just contributing to FOSS pollution
<Viper550> I didn't start it...I'm just plotting out for KDE 4
<BHSPitMonkey> Oh, and by the way... This is an Ubuntu channel :)
<Viper550> I know...but, first release of Ark predated Kubuntu's first by a few months
<Viper550> *a month
<Viper550> we were kinda thinking of having 2 main themes, a dark and light idea
<kwwii> re
<SiDi> kwwii: not gone bed ?
<kwwii> SiDi: I am a kde member since it began, official and all
<kwwii> SiDi: nope, they just closed the bar :p
<SiDi> ahahah
<kwwii> SiDi: ie. I am responsible for oxygen and such
<kwwii> crystal before that, etc
<SiDi> how do u find time for ubuntu stuff then ? :P
<kwwii> lol, since ubuntu I don't have much time for it anymore
<kwwii> I worked at suse for 7 years before this
<kwwii> an d my first 1.5 years at canonical were working on kubuntu
<Viper550> so I had this idea, two styles; a sort of "calm before the storm" theme, and a theme of "the" storm
<SiDi> kwwii: how old are you ? :P
<kwwii> old, I have been working for linux for 11 years and before that I owned 3 restaurants, and before that I wwas a civil engineer designing toxic waste landfills
<kwwii> but I am only 38 :)
<SiDi> wow :p
<SiDi> btw, i refreshed xfwm themes for dust, dust sand and new wave
<SiDi> got an impression one too but it definately needs polishing
<SiDi> any chance we get these in community-themes ?
<Viper550> SiDi, http://bayimg.com/image/eaponaabp.jpg
<SiDi> nice wallpaper
<Viper550> might not be the actual wallpaper, but the colors are pretty sure
<SiDi> night
<shadeslayer> hi
<shadeslayer> can anyone help me create a icon theme similar to the one here : http://gaia.customize.org/
<shadeslayer> just point me to a tool which does everything for me ;) i just feed it the icons and it creates a theme
<ryanprior> shadeslayer: You'll want to look at existing icon themes and the freedesktop.org standard for icon themes. There is no plug-and-play program right now, but we do have build scripts for icon themes that makes things significantly easier.
<ryanprior> shadeslayer: You'll have to learn a little bit of hacking, but it's totally doable.
<shadeslayer> ryanprior: yeah....i can manage basic things like a custom gtkrc
<ryanprior> shadeslayer: If you're interested in building a theme, I would suggest first getting involved in our effort to build the Breathe icon set. It's in progress and we welcome new contributors. You can learn how the Breathe build system works and how a theme is put together, and then you'll have the mojo necessary to build your own.
<shadeslayer> ok...can i join next  month after the 20th....exams on right now
<ryanprior> shadeslayer: If you'd like to get updates in the mean-time feel free to join our mailing list.
<shadeslayer> ryanprior: ok , link please :)
<ryanprior> shadeslayer: read topic. ;-)
<shadeslayer> ryanprior: k subscribing...
<shadeslayer> thanks
<macvr> anyone familiar with the breathe icon theme present here?
<macvr> anyone here?
<thorwil> halfway
<macvr> thorwil: i have noticed that there are no icons for the apps section?
<macvr> could i submit for the nm applet? or submissions are not involved for apps?
<thorwil> macvr, i guess you could. but breathe is in freeze for a release, currently
<macvr> i dont mind if it is added later... but i just need to send it via the mailing list? since i'm not in bzr
<thorwil> submissions should go on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions
<macvr> oh ok... i was worried if i was allowed to add there... thanx :)
<ubuntu> hey there :)
<SiDi> hi
<savvas> SiDi: did you get that last screenshot yesterday? :P
<SiDi> yes
<SiDi> thanks for that
<SiDi> i'll have to work more on impression anyways, but got no time now :p
<ubunoob33> how can I help?
<ubunoob33> I am a GIMP artist
<ubunoob33> with spare time and will to help
<ubunoob33> in exchange I onluy want more experience and maybe help with new techniques
<ubunoob33> .maybe more in inkscape and blender
<SiDi> hm
<SiDi> you can make wallpapers for karmic
<ubunoob33> okay
<SiDi> we also are looking for great photos for an extra wallpapers package
<ubunoob33> what shall be the mainly collor theme?
<SiDi> theres also the Breathe icon theme
<SiDi> anything, ubunoob33
<ubunoob33> okay
<SiDi> work with what you have i nmind
<ubunoob33> okay
<SiDi> theres no "official" recommandation yet
<ubunoob33> I remember that old cartoon
<ubunoob33> of the koala
<ubunoob33> maybe I'll do that
<ubunoob33> in tones of grey
<SiDi> never heard of such a cartoon :p
<ubunoob33> wait
<ubunoob33> lemme see if I can get it from tube
<ubunoob33> can't remember the name of it, but think was hannah barbera
<ubunoob33> I was a kid
<ubunoob33> kwicky koala
<ubunoob33> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ue_oMB5d0k
<thorwil> ubunoob33, stay clear of copyright trouble, please ;)
<ubunoob33> okay okay :D
<ubunoob33> don't worry
<ubunoob33> and besides, now that I see this
<thorwil> ubunoob33, have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds
<ubunoob33> I see the koala wasn't grey, after all
<thorwil> but also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/MeditatingKoala
<thorwil> have to go, dinner, bbl
<ubunoob33> have a nice dinner, thorwil
<thorwil> thanks, it was :)
<Viper550> okay...what sizes do you make the default wallpapers nowadays?
<dashua[A90]> SiDi: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/14867/screenshot_EpEFp2.png
<dashua[A90]> New Mini 9 :)
<SiDi> gz :D
<SiDi> didnt install UNR yet ?
<dashua[A90]> Yeah
<dashua[A90]> I don't really like it.
<dashua[A90]> This install is UNR
<SiDi> so not customized ? :/
<dashua[A90]> I can't run Compiz and UNR at the same time, so UNR goes.
<SiDi> it looks like default ubuntu
<dashua[A90]> Yeah
<dashua[A90]> UNR just has a few extra packages
<dashua[A90]> netbook-remix, desktop-switcher, go-home, netbook-launcher and a few others
<dashua[A90]> Maximus
<dashua[A90]> You can switch between the two
<dashua[A90]> I just installed kernel 2.6.30rc6 and its running like a champ
<SiDi> good
<SiDi> im with my bro btw
<SiDi> cant talk :p
<dashua[A90]> pz
<Viper550> workin' on a BG for that Ark Linux "storm" motif http://imagebin.ca/img/AGGxrVY.png
<Viper550> SiDi, http://imagebin.ca/img/hHj61bX.jpg
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-23
<kwwii> _MMA_: dude!
<_MMA_> yo yo
<kwwii> good to see you again
<kwwii> I am in barcelona at the all-hands canonical meeting before UDS
<_MMA_> I'm always connected, just not in channel. ;)
<kwwii> last night, weekend off here tomorrow and totally drunk
<_MMA_> kwwii: Ahh...
<kwwii> :p
<_MMA_> hahahahahhaa
<kwwii> rolling one now, and then going to bed
<_MMA_> !
<_MMA_> :P
<kwwii> will you be online over the weekend?
<_MMA_> Yep. Not much planned beyond getting the Breathe updates done and setting up things for release.
<kwwii> cool, I will taking a tour of the city with ted gould and neil patel on saturday but Neil and I will be working through on sunday getting UNR things starte
<kwwii> d
<_MMA_> kwwii: Fun. Luke there?
<kwwii> yeah, we had the jam session for allhands tonight and he played basically everything
<_MMA_> Killer. Tell him I said hi.
<Viper550> I was working on a wallpaper for that Ark Linux KDE 4
<kwwii> will do
<Viper550> http://imagebin.ca/img/hHj61bX.jpg
<kwwii> we all got chumby's tonight as a gift
<kwwii> pretty cool
<_MMA_> :P
<_MMA_> Viper550: Your previous Ubuntu work is better.
<Viper550> I never actually did Kubuntu work...
<Viper550> but anyway...like the wallpaper? made it myself
<kwwii> looks pretty cool
<kwwii> anyway, time for sleep now
<_MMA_> Night man.
<kwwii> see you all on the weekend
<kwwii> _MMA_: hope to see you soon
 * _MMA_ will be lurking.
<kwwii> coo
<kwwii> l
<kwwii> coo-el
<kwwii> one last thing, I assume everyone heard that we got android apps running on ubuntu UNR right?
<kwwii> and plasma as well
<_MMA_> ;)
<kwwii> anyway...time again for sleep
<kwwii> night all
<knome> night kwwii
<kn100> hi, im interested in helping,
<kn100> is anyone here
<SiDi> yes
<SiDi> 19 persons including you
 * SiDi hides
<kn100> haha!
<kn100> i mean
<kn100> the last time i was here there were 21 people online but bobdy said hi
<kn100> i am interested in helping you guys with artwork
<SiDi> hm
<kn100> i don't know where to start :)
<SiDi> that last time was this afternoon right ? :P
<kn100> i cant remember
<SiDi> Well, just post what you've done in the past on the mailing list, with a short introduction about yourself ?
<kn100> what like past projects?
<SiDi> And if you have ideas for karmic wallpapers/themes, just go on and post mockups on the wiki
<kn100> thats cool
<kn100> what colours are you guys looking for in karmic?
<SiDi> anything
<SiDi> noone knows yet what colors will be used in karmic
<SiDi> just work with what you think to be great :)
<kn100> im just begging its not going to be *ugh* brown
<kn100> well i will make a wallpaper and post it on the wiki
<SiDi> Don't know :p Xubuntu is likely to be blue though :D
<SiDi> for wallpapers, try to work either in svg, or in png with 2560x1600 screen res
<SiDi> if i'm not wrong that should be the biggest ratio/resolution aimed
<kn100> i cant do SVG's
<kn100> i can do PNG's at that resolution though
<SiDi> i cant do anything above 1000x1000, which is already hardly challenging me :)
<SiDi> i just gave up on wallpapers
<kn100> hehe
<kn100> i use fireworks for all my deskign work
<SiDi> ouch
<SiDi> hm, i think some people might be unhappy if you dont use open source software :)
<kn100> how would they know :p
<SiDi> because open source software should be promoted with open source tools
<SiDi> they'll know :P
<kn100> plus imho gimp sucks
<SiDi> its interface sucks, as far as im concerned
<kn100> and come on, its a wallpaper
<kn100> fireworks to the rescue
<SiDi> but honnestly, if i prefer firefox to it, i consider fireworks much more limited ;) and i used it ;)
<SiDi> photoshop, not firefox
<SiDi>  /tired
<kn100> i love fireworks
<kn100> i been using fireworks for years
<kn100> for all my design work
<kn100> great software
<kn100> plus it runs great in wine
<kn100> how does green sound for ubuntu karmic
<SiDi> Go for it
<SiDi> Community stuff doesnt have to stick to Canonical's colour choices anyways :)
<kn100> canonical are mad arent they
<kn100> brown
<kn100> lol
<SiDi> no, theyre not
<SiDi> its actually a lovely color for a desktop :)
<SiDi> most neutral you'll find
<kn100> horrible IMHO
<kn100> my desktop is either black or green
<kn100> as you can see by me desktop http://i40.tinypic.com/2lx4wg.png
<kn100> thats the second time today the screenshotter has ignored my dock and panels
<kn100> http://i44.tinypic.com/29nuiqh.png that is my desktop :)
<SiDi> spotify \o/
<kn100> spotify rocks
<kn100> http://open.spotify.com/user/kn100/playlist/6WKIIE9GHb4mlD7wXKPebT my collab playlist :)
<SiDi> Mine's sexier :p but it's "The pretiest of all *buntus" â¢
<kn100> lets see
<SiDi> i dont even know how to open someone else's playlist :O
<kn100> click it, copy the address that comes up into the search field
<kn100> one caveat of running it in wine
<kn100> firefox wont interact with it and i cant figure out how to make it
<SiDi> Sweet
<SiDi> http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5512/captureqfd.png
<kn100> very nice
<kn100> i like mine though :P
<SiDi> :P
<kn100> do you make artwork for ubuntu?
<SiDi> Nope :)
<SiDi> I just port some metacity themes to xfce when i find time for it
<SiDi> and i watch xubuntu artwork (making sure our art guy works fine, isnt it knome ? :D)
<kn100> hehe
<kn100> im wondering whether i should put a koala in my desktop bg
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-24
<knome> wut? :P
<kwwii> w00t! internet connectivity
<knome> ;)
<_MMA_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Breathe_Icon_Set-20090524.tar.gz
<shadeslayer> i just wanted you guys to see this http://francois.vogelweith.com/
<shadeslayer> there are 9 awesome themes there along with ppa repos , i was thinking if the artwork team could make something along those lines
<_MMA_> shadeslayer: Currently there is a lack of technical ability and time for the "team" to maintain a repo.
<shadeslayer> _MMA_: i just meant that i found those themes pretty good and maybe ubuntu should incorporate them in the next release
<shadeslayer> or something which looks like them
<_MMA_> shadeslayer: This artwork team has just about 0 to do with what Canonical puts in Ubuntu. (unfortunately)
 * _MMA_ points to topic and notes the word "community".
<shadeslayer> _MMA_: ah... i thought that there would be devels here :(
<knome> well, there is possibilities to get some artwork *packages* in ubuntu
<macvr> _MMA_: i checked out the breathe icons , but looks like there isnt nm signal icons yet , are they breathe team accepting icons?
<_MMA_> macvr: Read my reply to you on the list.
<shadeslayer> _MMA_: also the breathe icon set is kinda too orange imo :)
<_MMA_> knome: You have to be careful to also say "repos". Because just using "Ubuntu" sounds like at install time.
<knome> _MMA_, right. :P when i say packages, i mean something that is possible to install :P
<knome> not what is installed by default
<_MMA_> Sure. noobs don't often see the difference.
<macvr> _MMA_: oh, just now checked it... ok.. i do understand that any missing icons will be inherited... so breathe is not stressing on separate icons for nm-signal?
<_MMA_> macvr: At the moment, no.
<macvr> _MMA_: ok... but i have a few ideas , if u are interested for  later i could improve upon them...?
<_MMA_> macvr: It's wide open. Just post to the list. Having examples on the "Submissions" page will help people understand your ideas. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions
<_MMA_> macvr: Also make sure to add: [Breathe] at the start of the email when it's about the set.
<macvr> _MMA_: oh... ok... since this was my first time being involved , needed directions... will post on the list and submissions too.. :)
<_MMA_> macvr: Do you have examples of previous work?
<SiDi> hi people
 * _MMA_ waves
<SiDi> shadeslayer, what you could do though is ask franÃ§ois volgeweith to try to get his theme packages directly in ubuntu repositories. They're pretty popular indeed (even ifthey're way to gnome-centric imo)
<_MMA_> dashua[A90]: Why the "[A90]"? Different connection?
<SiDi> he got a new netbook
<SiDi> an A90 :D
<_MMA_> Ahh... :)
<macvr> _MMA_: i actually have them as pngs , but created not much experience with inkscape, but using the templates i have created 4 svgs, but its just a rough replica of the pngs i have
<shadeslayer> SiDi: hehe...well ill see if i can contact him
<macvr> _MMA_: i'll send it via the list , u could check it out
<_MMA_> macvr: Links to anything you have now would be appreciated. (just something to look at)
<shadeslayer> SiDi: just a note though...why is it that every icon theme is see on ubuntu artwork wiki has orange everywhere...isnt orange too bold??
<_MMA_> macvr: Also, if you're having trouble with Inkscape, just ask. I'm sure someone can help. or maybe even convert your PNGs to SVG.
<shadeslayer> *i see
<SiDi> shadeslayer, its cause it looks nice with brown, and brown is the default colors of the current releases (hardy/jaunty)
<SiDi> shadeslayer, the icon theme in xubuntu is blue :D
<shadeslayer> SiDi: ubuntu really needs a facelift :P something like light yellow for folders etc
<_MMA_> shadeslayer: Why?
<SiDi> shadeslayer, check out breathe's folder icon
<SiDi> it isnt flashy orange afaik
<shadeslayer> _MMA_: as i said orange is too bold...hurts my eyes...looks horrible on dark back grounds
<_MMA_> IYO. ;)
<SiDi> i disagree :D
<shadeslayer> SiDi: i am talking about the breathe icon theme :)
<macvr> _MMA_: i have published any work , mostly i created for personal use, its basically like a hobby :) ... inkscape i'v been using for a couple of hrs and got a bit of hang of it... but help  conversion from png to svg would be nice?
<_MMA_> Change, for the sake of it, without direction is folly.
<macvr> ^HAVENT
<shadeslayer> SiDi: everyone has their opinions :)
<_MMA_> macvr: Gotcha.
<_MMA_> macvr: In any event, throw something up and link in here.
<SiDi> _MMA_, i found the missing symlinks for suspend/reboot
<SiDi> hibernate / reboot actually
<SiDi> its in actions : system-reboot.svg/png is missing
<_MMA_> SiDi: Cool. Post them to the bug and I'll add them.
<SiDi> and system-hibernate too
 * _MMA_ looks
<SiDi> shall i put that on the ML ? i didnt fill a bug report on LP
<_MMA_> Oh. i thought I saw one like that. Gimmie a sec. Ill look here.
<SiDi> okies
<_MMA_> SiDi: And these links fix what exactly? Something in XFCE?
<macvr> _MMA_: just sent the icons to the list, i still havent got the  lightings right , also for now i have used the icon from wireless network as the antenna,
<_MMA_> k
<_MMA_> Gah. Another one that doesn't use caps. What's with that? :)
<macvr> _MMA_: ? was that for me? caps?
<_MMA_> Yep :)
<macvr> i dont understand caps?
<_MMA_> macvr: You don't use capitol letters where needed.
<kn100> Hi
<macvr> _MMA_: oh :) ... just lazy i guess! my bad , !
<macvr> _MMA_: i thought that caps meant something with the art!
<kn100> Has canonical released colour specifications for Karmic yet?
<_MMA_> macvr: Not a /big/ deal. Just looks odd. Just my personal nit-pick. Just hits me as childish. Or, its sometimes a language issue.
<_MMA_> kn100: No. No new news on that front other then Julian Hubbard leaving.
<macvr> _MMA_: i think that its more because of texting, !
<_MMA_> Gotcha
<kn100> _MMA_ thanks,
<kn100> i am working on wallpapers for jaunty
<kn100> karmix
<kn100> argh i hate spelling on a hangover
<_MMA_> kn100: Cool. Post 'em to the list.
<kn100> want to see my first prototype for one?
<_MMA_> sure
<kn100> sorry about the banding, i cant seem to get rid of it without having a 6mb jpeg
<kn100> http://i44.tinypic.com/16jlu9y.jpg
<_MMA_> macvr: Icons look good at 1st look. But are they better than the Human ones or fit with Breathe, we'll see. WIP I understand. Hopefully we can get something going. Sebastien's icons have set the tone for the set lately.
<_MMA_> kn100: Honest critique?
<kn100> go for it
<kn100> it sucks i know
<SiDi> _MMA_, a quit dialog in XFCE, yeh
<_MMA_> Too brand heavy
<SiDi> the session quit dialog with the hibernate/suspend/quit buttons
<_MMA_> SiDi: Gotcha. Ill fix in a min.
<SiDi> thanks
<_MMA_> np
<kn100> _MMA_ i will bear that in mind, i was just working for something simple
<kn100> the ubuntu logo is just so cool
<_MMA_> kn100: Sure. Let me back-track and ask a question. What's the point? What are you going for here?
<kn100> _MMA_ i just want to find some way to participate in ubuntu's development
<SiDi> kn100, its recommanded not to use the logo at all in artwork
<macvr> _MMA_: thanx for the comment , was wondering if they were too bad to even comment upon since u hadnt replied in a long time... but yeah Its WIP... at fist was thinking of converting png to svg but after working with inkscape i think if i do it fresh it would turn out better... ur thoughts?
<_MMA_> kn100: I got that. :) Apply my above question to the aesthetics of you pic.
<kn100> _MMA_ i was trying to get something that looked elegant yet simple
<SiDi> its not bad at all, kn100, but you shouldn't use branding. its very boring for users to have a big logo in the face continuously.
<_MMA_> macvr: From scratch will always be better. Ask on the list for help with techniques and defiantly look through the SVGs in the set for ideas/inspiration.
<kn100> SiDi and _MMA_ thanks for the critique, i will work towards what you said. I am guessing ubuntu is staying orange/brown
<_MMA_> kn100: Elegant and simple to what end? Like, what are you trying to say? And mind you, "because it looks cool" is an acceptable answer. ;) Also, branding isn't bad altogether. Just has to be used correctly.
<macvr> _MMA_: will do with svg itself , will there be any problems with using the antenna from the wireless icon? i thought using that antenna would be better for continuity?
<kn100> i was never good at describing art in school, so i think the because it looks cool answer is the best i can give :)
<_MMA_> kn100: I'm just seeing if your thinking about more than "it looks cool". If your going for a particular audience and all.
<kn100> oh right, i was trying to appeal to the widest audience possible, I wanted to create something that was as stylish as a mac but as sophisticated as a windows vista wallpaper
<_MMA_> kn100: If you stay with the branding (though with less of a central focus) I would use a sharper logo over the blurred one you have.
<macvr> guys i thought that karmic was going to move away from brown?
<kn100> macvr canonical hasnt said anything about moving from brown yet
 * kn100 is listening to queen :)
<_MMA_> kn100: Well, IMO (and others around here) Going for the widest audiance will often result in watered-down, direction-less pieces. Try to appeal to a age group maybe. Don't be afraid to turn some people off.
<macvr> kn100: i read some article where Mark said "brown has served well so long" but might be looking for a new color
<kn100> _MMA_ good advice, Do you think its a good idea to work on something that isnt brown?
 * _MMA_ notes the "might". (if the quote is correct)
<SiDi> kn100, it is a good idea to do what you feel at ease with
<kn100> macvr but yeah might. Since there is a lack of people developing the new theme, we may have to wait for the next LTS
<_MMA_> kn100: That's up to you and your vision of what you wanna communicate.
<SiDi> dont try to do something that goes against your feeling just to "do as you're told"
<SiDi> express your creativity, instead ;)
<kn100> SiDi great. How is the new human theme development going?
<macvr> kn100: yeah , 10.4 probably will have more appealing looks :)
<SiDi> you just have to check that it doesnt look incoherent with the default theme (and/or some of the community themes)
<a_n_d_r_e_w> i hate human theme
<SiDi> kn100, i'll let you know about the human theme as soon as Canonical hires me ;)
<_MMA_> kn100: Though, if you're looking for general guidelines in hopes of generally being in line with what Ubuntu will do next, Orange/Brown is a safe bet for now. We have no other info past that.
<a_n_d_r_e_w> http://kepfeltoltes.hu/090524/975766470K_perny_k_p_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png
<kn100> Man they keep us in the dark dont they
<_MMA_> UDS is going on now so I expect kwwii to have some notes in the next week or 2.
<SiDi> Dont tell me you prefer Mandriva's default theme, please :D
<SiDi> knome, still not coming UDS btw ? :P
<kn100> hehe the trial part of macromedia fireworks doesnt work, its allways 30 days :)
<kn100> (in wine)
<_MMA_> SiDi: You building Breathe from BZR?
<SiDi> _MMA_, usually im waiting for dashua to send me the latest deb XD
<_MMA_> SiDi: I'll send you one. Preferred email?
<SiDi> i'll get it from bzr if you want _MMA_
<SiDi> sidnioulz at gmail dot com is good
<_MMA_> Ok. I'm doing the fixes now. I wanna see if it fixes the issue for you.
<SiDi> its lp:breathe-icon-theme ?
<SiDi> no, its not :/
<SiDi> hm
<_MMA_> https://code.launchpad.net/~breathe-dev/breathe-icon-set/debian-packaging
<_MMA_> So: bzr branch lp:~breathe-dev/breathe-icon-set/debian-packaging
<_MMA_> Then, cd in and "bzr-buildpackage --native"
<SiDi> there is such a command ? :O
<SiDi> Damn. Ill have to try it on my own code, cause making deb packages is painful
<_MMA_> yep. Well, *if* you have the package installed.
<SiDi> ah
<SiDi> Okey, then i _will_ have to build my deb package :D
<_MMA_> Open up Synaptic and browse through the bzr-* packages.
<SiDi> the buildpackage's output is scary
<_MMA_> How so?
<SiDi> its big :D
<SiDi> bigger than compiling 15k lines of code with full warnings :D
<SiDi> gpg: [stdin]: clearsign failed: secret key not available
<SiDi> huh :D i'll let you build the .deb :]
<_MMA_> No no. It will build. You just cant sign the .deb. Still works.
<SiDi> bzr: ERROR: The build failed.
<_MMA_> Is there still a .deb?
<SiDi> no :)
<_MMA_> Maybe 1 folder up?
<SiDi> i got almost all the files, though
<_MMA_> Look for a folder called "build-area"
<SiDi> ok, i see stuff here
<SiDi> I got a deb, giving it to gdebig :)
<SiDi> -g
<_MMA_> SiDi: You gotta grab rev.42. Gimmie a sec.
<_MMA_> *uploaded
<_MMA_> (might take a sec)
<kn100> i hate using macromedia fireworks in wine, its so slow
<_MMA_> SiDi: Should be up now.
<SiDi> Okey
<zniavre> hello
<SiDi> heya
<kn100> does anyone know a good site with royalty free textures? im looking for a realistic mud/soil texture
<zniavre> any chance to get globalmenu included in artwork team ,?
<SiDi> _MMA_, the reboot one is fixed
<SiDi> theres the hibernate one too
<SiDi> the name is system-hibernate according to xfce folks
<_MMA_> SiDi: Well IMO they need to be in line with FreeDesktop.
<_MMA_> Maybe someone should file a bug. ;)
 * SiDi has the feeling he's the someone you're mentioning
<_MMA_> :P
<_MMA_> SiDi: Actually, looks like they might not have support for them.
<SiDi> _MMA_, i'll send the bug later on xfce's bugzilla with a patch
<_MMA_> I think KDE/Oxygen went with "restart" and not "reboot". Might be good to at least line up with each other.
<SiDi> ill add a note about that, but when i locate system-reboot i get matches from other icon themes :p
<SiDi> and i got xfsm-hibernate too, which is used as backup for when theres no system-hibernate
<_MMA_> Breathe went with "system-restart" and "system-suspend-hibernate" as per the Oxygen set.
<SiDi> anyways i'll post on their bugzilla with a short patch
<SiDi> by the meanwhile, if we could have the symlink, it'd be great.. :D
<_MMA_> Ok. In the mean time, its fixed in the set. Though, I'm odd about creating fixes where standards should be followed/enacted or there's bugs in apps.
<SiDi> they dont have a big team, hard for them to watch such details on their own ;)
<SiDi> thanks tho
<_MMA_> np. So you see it fixed on your end right?
<knome> SiDi, nope, not coming to uds this time :(
<_MMA_> SiDi: ^^^
<knome> i'll keep the xubuntu HQ up ;)
<kn100> well ive lost my inspiration for wallpapers :)
<knome> kn100, already? ;)
<kn100> hey, who designs the CD covers for the releases?
<kn100> im really good with layouts
<SiDi> _MMA_, the reboot is fixed indeed :)
<_MMA_> kn100: No clue.
<thorwil> kn100, someone at canonical
<SiDi> the other name i gave you should be  the good one
<_MMA_> SiDi: Killer. For reference: http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html
<kn100> the one job i could have done well
<SiDi> im about to have to leave home, will be back in ~1 hour
<kn100> lol
<SiDi> cheers _MMA_
<kn100> buy SiDi
<SiDi> i'll bug the xfce guys and write the code for them
<SiDi> but it probably wont land before 4.8 in a good year
<knome> lol
<SiDi> knome, :D
<SiDi> is it too optimistic ?:)
<_MMA_> SiDi: np. I dont think the names will make the spec but at least being inline with KDE will be good.
<knome> 4.8 will maybe be released on 2015
<knome> ;)
<SiDi> knome, leaves us time to write the xfce doc then :D :D
<knome> yes.
<knome> (and 2015 was optimistic)
<SiDi> come on
<SiDi> troll :d
<_MMA_> :P
<knome> not a troll, just being realistic
<knome> ;)
<savvas> sur-realistic :P
<knome> nah
<SiDi> ok, logging out
<knome> the xfce folks plan their releases well :P
<knome> see you SiDi
<SiDi> see you asap people
<SiDi> plan well -> thats a troll :D
<knome> that's teasing
<knome> to get them work faster
<_MMA_> hahah. Because we all get paid so well. :P
<knome> totally.
<knome> well one of them soon might get paid well :P
 * _MMA_ shoves his piles of money and hookers aside and goes to make a pizza.
 * knome steals all of _MMA_'s money
<_MMA_> As long as I have my pizza.
<knome> sure.
<knome> i can leave you money for a few more
<SiDi>  :D
<_MMA_> Yeah. Hookers gotta eat to.
<SiDi> knome, hire myself as a pizza maker for _MMA_ then
<knome> haha
<knome> SiDi, didn't you go already? :P
<SiDi> :D
<SiDi> my driver's late :D
<knome> haha
<SiDi> alright
<SiDi> see you soon
<knome> ;)
<knome> bye
<_MMA_> bbl
<dashua[A90]> _MMA_: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/14971/screenshot_1Y7En3.png
<dashua[A90]> Tweaked UNR a bit, netbook-launcher and compiz are not playing well together
<_MMA_> Still, fun. :)
<dashua[A90]> This thing is great
<dashua[A90]> All of my kids want one now =/
<_MMA_> :D
 * _MMA_ will be getting them a Wii soon. Though I'm building them a new basic box from the guts of a Dell Optiplex.
<dashua[A90]> Battery lasts about 10 hours
<dashua[A90]> Ooh nice
<_MMA_> very nice
<knome> dashua[A90], how much is "all of my kids"
<dashua[A90]> How much is it going to cost or how many kids?
<knome> the latter
<knome> i hope it's not that "a 90"
<knome> ;))
<dashua[A90]> 3 girls 15,10, and 8
<knome> yay
<knome> congrats ;)
<dashua[A90]> Thx
<dashua[A90]> I'm going to need it.
<knome> of course
<knome> kids are so... nice. especially girls.
<knome> especially at their teen age.
<knome> (and pre-teen age)
<dashua[A90]> Yeah, they're fun now and all of them use Linux, which is cool
<dashua[A90]> They really don't have much of a choice in the house though
 * _MMA_ hugs his fiber connection. Downloading ISO images @2.7MB/sec. :P
<knome> hehe
<knome> still haven't got my wife using linux
<knome> ;<
<_MMA_> knome: Don't give her the choice. "twas what I did. ;)
<dashua[A90]> _MMA_: Same here, they acclimate quite fast.
<knome> :D
<knome> lol
<knome> have to go, guests
<knome> see you!
<dashua[A90]> Pz
<_MMA_> later
<dashua[A90]> Breathe look exceptionally sexxy on this little beast too :)
<dashua[A90]> looks*
<_MMA_> Nice ;)
<dashua[A90]> I have'n't used another icon set since last May or so when development began
<_MMA_> Just keep testing and file bugs where needed.
<dashua[A90]> I have'n't used another icon set since last May or so when development began I strongly disagree.  The contrast is quite nice.
<dashua[A90]> Oh and whoever said Breathe does not look good on dark themes,
<dashua[A90]> Sorry, getting used to these smaller keys =/
<_MMA_> It's about all I use it on. Dust and DarkRoom.
<dashua[A90]> _MMA_: Will do on the bugs for sure
<dashua[A90]> I think it actually looks better on darker themes
<dashua[A90]> Just my opinion
<_MMA_> Been using them almost exclusively during Jaunty. More than my beloved Studio theme. ;)
<dashua[A90]> Oh wow, that is big ;)
<_MMA_> :P
<geek_ubuntu> hi
<geek_ubuntu> hello
<geek_ubuntu> I was wondering who to speak to about contributing graphics for ubuntu
<kn100> hey
<kn100> depends what your contributing
<kn100> and http://www.noob.us/miscellaneous/geek-squad-fails-computer-repair-test/
<kn100> oops wrong link
<kn100> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/artwork/
<geek_ubuntu> nothing there
<kn100> oh sorry its case sensetive
<geek_ubuntu> oh yeh there is
<kn100> the real link is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork
<geek_ubuntu> found some artwork examples https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkJmakProposals?action=edit&template=ArizonaTeam/MeetingTemplate
<geek_ubuntu> i would like to contribute by making icons wallpapers login background and startup splash logo
<kn100> add them to the wiki
<kn100> i am new to this too
<_MMA_> geek_ubuntu: kn100 is correct. Joining the mailing list and putting items on the wiki is the way to go.
<kn100> yay face
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/14984/screenshot_7WLM53.png
<dashua> Few tweaks to Alvaro
<kn100> looks nice
<dashua> Thx
<dashua> This theme is fairly customizable from what I can tell as far as color schemes go.
<kn100> i use standard ubuntu theme
<kn100> mainly because ive never been able to figure out how to get other themes
<dashua> Oh, just add them to /home/user name/.themes
<dashua> Or drag and drop to gnome-appearance-preferences if packaged in tar.gz
<_MMA_> dashua: You test the latest Breathe?
<dashua> Yeah, just commented on that Rhythmbox report
 * _MMA_ looks
<kn100> how can i test this new breathe?
<dashua> I thought when I originally reported that is was inherited Human not realizing it was a hi-color icon
<dashua> Download the tar.gz and drop it in your themes tab
<_MMA_> dashua: Cool. Player controls will look odd 'till Oliver gives me the last few control icons but they should be done for release. I also think Sebastien wants to make a custom icon at some point.
<kn100> dashua where from?
<dashua> kn100: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Breathe_Icon_Set-20090524.tar.gz
<kn100> thanks
<dashua> _MMA_: A custom icon would be sweet being that the Breathe Rhythmbox icon is so good
<_MMA_> Note that that is missing the specific fix we're talking about but is still pretty much up-to-date.
<dashua> Cool, this is much better than the hi-color icon or minimally more consistent
<kn100> what do i do with this tar.gz
<kn100> ?
<dashua> This wood background from saleel is really good for Karmic
<dashua> kn100: Right click Desktop > Change background > Drop that file into your themes
<kn100> ok
<kn100> fantastic
<kn100> thanks#
<dashua> :)
<_MMA_> dashua: Which wall?
 * _MMA_ cant remember
<dashua> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=eucawood.jpg
<_MMA_> dashua: I like it as a texture but I think its a bit much as-is.
<dashua> Yeah, it's a very good start
<kn100> WOW
<kn100> breathe is amazing
<ubuntu_geek>  
<kn100> what format do you request the icons to be in and where can i submit a try for an icon?
<kn100> one icon that needs changing is the one that comes up with exe files
<_MMA_> dashua: Ive been using DarkRoom, Breathe and the "simple" wallpaper for a long while.
<kn100> breathe is beyond sexy
<_MMA_> kn100: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet
<dashua> _MMA_: Yeah, that background is better than the default
<_MMA_> kn100: Note that where the set is missing icons it inherits Human than gnome. So, we simply might not have the icon yet.
<kn100> but breathe OMG it is so sexy
<kn100> do you have to use svg's?
<kn100> i make svg's
<kn100> i cant make svg's
<kn100> i mean
<_MMA_> Yes. The source files are all SVG.
<kn100> oh man
<kn100> you cant convert high resolution png's to svg's right?
<_MMA_> ?
<_MMA_> s/can't/can?
<kn100> can you convert high resolution pngs (like 2000x2000) to svg's?
<_MMA_> Yes but it's *very* messy.
<_MMA_> And as a submission, I wouldn't accept them for Breathe.
<kn100> nevermind
<kn100> you guys seem to have it covered
<_MMA_> kn100: Try to make the jump from raster to vector. Takes a bit of thought but you'll never go back.
<_MMA_> Except for photos.
<knome> ;>
<knome> or gf's
<kn100> _mma_ whats the best oss vector prog?
<knome> *oops* :P
<knome> kn100, inkscape.
<kn100> is that what you guys are using for the icons
<_MMA_> Yes
<kn100> ok i will try and learn that
<_MMA_> You won't regret it.
 * _MMA_ still has to dig into Blender. (one of these years)
<kn100> know any good tutorial sites?
<_MMA_> kn100: On thing about Inkscape, *lots* or resources. Honestly, I would /join #inkscape and chat with them.
<kn100> ok
<kn100> will google it
<_MMA_> DeviantArt has lots of HOWTOs. (just search) And a great manual done last year: http://en.flossmanuals.net/Inkscape/FM_Inkscape_18Oct08.pdf
<_MMA_> http://inkscapetutorials.wordpress.com
<_MMA_> http://screencasters.heathenx.org
<kn100> the breath skin is EPIC WIN!
<kn100> i LOVE IT
<kn100> include it in 9.10
<_MMA_> kn100: Maybe. But not default. It will at least be in the repos.
<kn100> i love the new wine icon
<kn100> sound and video icon needs a new one
<_MMA_> Like I said, WIP.
<kn100> yeah
<kn100> great so far though
<kn100> amazing how good quality you guys aim for
<kn100> considering you do it for free
<_MMA_> If you can't do it right, don't do it at all. (even for free)
<kn100> hehe
<kn100> massive props though
<psyke83> hey
<dashua> psyke83: Heya, wb. :)
<_MMA_> +1
<psyke83> hey guys and gals ;)
<kn100> hey psyke
<_MMA_> psyke83: I need you to fix this theme, and that theme. Oh, and this other one! Get to work!!!
<psyke83> _MMA_, f**k you :P... oh wait, I mean yessir
<psyke83> ;)
<_MMA_> hahahahhahahahaa
<psyke83> take a look: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1168984
 * _MMA_ clicks
<psyke83> the visual changes I like, but that doesn't matter. The gtkrc code is a lot cleaner now
<psyke83> smaller, too
<_MMA_> Nice.
 * _MMA_ has stepped down from Studio and hopes they find someone to take over the art.
<psyke83> keep looking, a-hole ;). I may help fix up the ubuntustudio theme, but that's the extent of my charity :)
<psyke83> I have to get a real job too :P
<_MMA_> I got one. Though, I had to go 307miles to do it.
 * _MMA_ is currently working in another state. Away from his family.
<psyke83> wow, what was it? I recall you saying something about welding?
<psyke83> *is it
<_MMA_> psyke83: Yeah. Back as a contract worker at my old job in my home state. maybe 3 months work. Maybe longer. Should net 10k take-home.
<_MMA_> Working 60hrs a week.
<_MMA_> I see the fam every couple of weeks.
<psyke83> well not seeing your family sucks, but at least you're working... there are lots of layoffs there, and here too
<_MMA_> Yeah. The $ will help alot. Paying some bills. Buying a fence and some toys.
 * _MMA_ is totally getting a triple monitor setup and a Wii. (the latter mostly for the fam)
<kn100> lucky you
<kn100> a triple monitor setup
<kn100> what size?
<_MMA_> 20"/24"/20"
<kn100> nice
 * _MMA_ has this now though: http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4030/dscf5024resizedxf1.jpg
<psyke83> I have the same dell keyboard right now
<psyke83> ;)
<kn100> whats with the mouse?
<_MMA_> I got 2 given to me. I liked the shape.
<_MMA_> Older Logitech trackball.
<kn100> you use trackballs?
<_MMA_> And a Wacom.
<_MMA_> (sitting behind the LCDs on the right)
<kn100> i really need a bigger monitor
<kn100> currently working on a 15"
<geek_ubuntu> 17 crt
<geek_ubuntu> and i have an Nvidia 8800 GTS
<_MMA_> 23/24s are getting damn cheap.
<kn100> 19" are really cheap
<kn100> i can get decent 19" for like 50
<knome> kn100, varies what people find "decent"
<kn100> they are really good
<kn100> hanns-g ones
<knome> never heard.
<kn100> theres no bleed and colour reproduction is good
<knome> i'm running 2x24" widescreens
<_MMA_> knome: I did 2 for years but that middle bezel finally drove me nuts.
<knome> _MMA_, hehe. :) i can see.
<knome> i just ignore it
<knome> and notice working on one monitor a lot
<knome> and then changing for the other to do something else
<kn100> lucky people
<knome> but that works relatively well
<kn100> this 15 incher is driving me mad
<_MMA_> Games get the worst. The tri-setup I think is gonna be sweet. Im gettin' 2 refurbed 20"s that match my 24".
<knome> hihi
<kn100> how much for?
<_MMA_> Though, there are some hacks/tricks to get Compix working over 2 cards.
<_MMA_> kn100: $340
<kn100> wow thats bad price
<kn100> are they like top quality or something?
<_MMA_> *Very* specific monitors. Lots of features. Guaranteed no dead pixels.
<kn100> these are guarenteed no dead pixels for an extra Â£30
<kn100> http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/Other+products/20%22+Belinea+Widescreen+LCD+TFT+Monitor+?productId=35245
<_MMA_> Like my 24" Dell, I can plug damn-near any feed into it.
<kn100> fair enough
<_MMA_> Oh. $325. Free shipping. http://tiny.cc/Sw8D0
<kn100> very nice
<kn100> YAY!
<kn100> I got itunes in ubuntu
<kn100> (not that i use itunes, i just took it as a personal challenge
<Viper550> I noticed the new Air plasma theme on 4.3 has a somewhat ugly fallback
 * _MMA_ wished more Kubuntu folks were active here but Kubuntu mostly uses upstream KDE.
<Viper550> yeah...
<kn100> eww kde
<kn100> lol
<kn100> hey with wine is there any way to change the icon a wine program displays in the notification bar?
 * _MMA_ is unsure
<psyke83> kn100, you'd have to hack the exe with a windows reshacker
<psyke83> (and insert the new icon)
<kn100> will try that
<kn100> resource hacker should do it i ugess
<kn100> i guess
<kn100> thank the good lord for wine
<kn100> this file has a nonstandard resourse layout
<kn100> lol
<kn100> any other ideas
<_MMA_> Ok. I'll comment. Can't help it. (take with a grain of salt) ;) There's nothing I can't do in linux that I once did in windows. WINE is only good for things you *want* to use.
<kn100> i love wine
<psyke83> kn100: just grab the source, patch and recom... oh sorry, my bad :P
<kn100> it runs so many things so well
<kn100> i know
<kn100> thats the sad thing :)
<kn100> the reason i want to change is because...
<kn100> getting screeny
<kn100> http://i44.tinypic.com/23uzsr6.png
<kn100> look at the spotify icon in the notification bar
<kn100> compared to my other icons its patheti
<psyke83> kn100: is it due to the panel size, perhaps? Maybe it's all jagged because it can't display the native size
<kn100> my panel size is the smallest it to go
<kn100> making it larger doesnt change it
<kn100> its because windows sucks lol
<_MMA_> Right tool for the job. Whatever the OS.
<kn100> what?
<kn100> the format tool in windows?
<_MMA_> It was a comment on your "windows sux" line.
<kn100> hehe
<kn100> the one thing windows got right was gaming support
<kn100> its just so epicly good
<_MMA_> Not really. It's the dominant OS. Development will go there because it's the biggest user share.
<kn100> yeah
<kn100> but directx vs opengl
<kn100> directx is so well done
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-24
<zniavre_> good afternoon
<zniavre_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/187396/roundcorner.png
<zniavre_> i did not know we can create round corner on some textzone it looks good no?
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-26
<vish> hmm , this page shows white text on an off-white background http://www.ubuntu.com/how-can-it-be-free
<vish> is it just me ?  o.0
<vish> mat_t: ^
<zniavre> vish,  it wrong color for me too
<zniavre> it's*
<zniavre> it need to be selected to be readable
<vish> yeah , me too
<zniavre> launchpad bug report ?
<vish> zniavre: havent filed one.. yet , not sure where to file it either.. hence pinged mat_t  ;p
<zniavre> :o) ok im sure you can manage better than me to do this
<vish> looks like we dont want others to know why/how is free ;)
<zniavre> Ã©Ã©Ã©Ã©
<vish> zniavre:  Bug #585873 :)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 585873 in ubuntu-website "Page http://www.ubuntu.com/how-can-it-be-free is unreadable (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585873
<vish> *sigh* we are stuck with ugly redirect header :/  Bug #585879
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 585879 in ubuntu-website "Link for artwork team is a redirect link , use the correct link instead (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585879
<mat_t> vish: hmm, you should never see this page like that - this is an overlay
<mat_t> vish: go to homepage and click "how can it be free"
 * mat_t hates external suppliers who mess up their code
 * thorwil just created a duplicate bug report because there is "Ubuntu Website Content" and "Ubuntu Website Product"
<knome> hah
<thorwil> mat_t: cool. disable javascript and its back to white on light gray on its own page
<mat_t> thorwil: right, crappy implementation then. Thanks for letting us know
<mat_t> :)
 * mat_t wonders who on earth would switch off JS these days
<mat_t> (apart from everyone on this channel)
<thorwil> everyone who knows that some sites become more bearable without ;)
<mat_t> ;)
<vish> mat_t: thats weird , it works as an overlay on the homepage
 * vish tries to recall how he got there
<vish> mat_t: oh , i opened it in a new tab instead of just clicking on it ;p
<mat_t> vish: ah-ha, good one
<mat_t> needs fixing then
<mat_t> as does 1353 other things :/
 * mat_t goes home to get drunk
<thorwil> new canonical footwear: http://chzifshoescouldkill.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/129181529806550282.jpg
<knome> lol
<zniavre> :o)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-27
<thorwil> so who from canonical is at the LGM?
<iainfarrell> thorwil: Otto, kwwii and danrabbit are going
<thorwil> cool
<iainfarrell> thorwil: will you be there?
<thorwil> nope
<thorwil> aside of having no money to spend, it would interfere with my attempts to force myself to finally create a decent website :)
<vish> thorwil: meeting time!
<thorwil> vish: thanks!
<vish>  <mpt> So thorwil is to Ubuntu as Brad Pitt is to Ocean's Eleven?
<vish> oops , late paste!
<vish> thorwil: np ;)
<thorwil> oh, well, hmm
<vish> thorwil: hehe , it was since ben kept saying you were probably eating.. again! ;p
<darkmatter> nautilus ui roadmap <3
 * snubby tips hat
<snubby> rather silent eh
<thorwil> kwwii: http://blogs.gnome.org/lferrett/2010/05/27/say-it-with-your-colors/
<thorwil> of course vish was already there
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-28
<matumba> kwwii, when will we be able to add images to 'Ubuntu Artwork' on flickr?
<thorwil> matumba: why do you think you can't, currently?
<matumba> thorwil, because flickr tells me: "Adding items to Ubuntu Artwork has been disabled."
<thorwil> matumba: ok, that's clear then, sorry. i just thought it stayed open all the time and the admin text on http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-artwork/ would suggest it is (even updated for Maverick)
<kwwii> matumba: hrm, not sure why that is diabled
<kwwii> matumba: I will see if I can turn it back on
<kwwii> matumba: it is now turned back on, thanks for pointing that out
<matumba> kwwii: works now, thanks!
<kwwii> matumba: sorry for the trouble
<matumba> kwwii, np, bye bye!
<vish> kwwii: hey , have you seen this > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1475606  ?
<vish> logo is far too similar to Ubuntu's ;s
<vish> kwwii: dashua: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/nautilus.png  ;)
<vish> nearly close to the mockups ;p
<vish> the problem was the breadcrumbs seem to be overlayed as individual buttons , instead of a single widget :/
<vish> otherwise we can make the breadcrumbs bg white
<dashua> vish, Looks good.  Try it with the bottom scale and it starts getting ugly.
<darkmatter> I'm catching up with dinner, because food is palatable today
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-29
<vish> andreasn: lmao! to switch buttons install gnome3? huh :p
<andreasn> vish, if you run gnome-shell, the window buttons will go on the right side of the window decorator
<andreasn> (I don't really care about right or left, but I thought it was a fun detail)
<vish> andreasn: yup , but that was an awesome promotion idea :D
<andreasn> well, if you're one of those people who go crazy over some window buttons getting moved, you probably won't like the whole window management and app switching concept being radically different all of a sudden either :)
<andreasn> it also seems like app-indicators and gnome-shell go together like oil and water, but that's another bug report for another day
<andreasn> thorwil, ping
<thorwil> hi andreasn
<andreasn> is this your spec? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/FileContextMenu
<andreasn> spec/design
<thorwil> andreasn: i created the page and wrote the intro, but the rest is by David Hamm
<vish> andreasn: ayatana ml is bubbling with ideas ;)
<andreasn> I should probably subscribe to that list some day
<vish> andreasn: oh dont! , its tooo noisy :s
 * vish on the verge of unsubscribing
<andreasn> we're doing a bunch of changes to nautilus and making that impossible right click menu a bit saner might be a good idea too
<andreasn> http://live.gnome.org/Nautilus/UIRoadmap
<thorwil> andreasn: the list suffers from a few guys that are just too wordy and there are too many topics being brought up
<thorwil> there's a lack of guidance, not much of a channeling of ideas
<thorwil> i pushed a little to have people document stuff on the wiki, at least, to get past the gone-and-forgotten of mailing lists
<vish> andreasn: yeah , the roadmap looks nice , did you join the nautilus session at UDS?
<andreasn> vish, I had a fever that morning, so I didn't call into that
<vish> aw..
<andreasn> is there any notes around from it?
<thorwil> bbl
<vish> andreasn: there was one nice idea , of combining the zoom slider and the icon switcher . blueprint and the link to the docs> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/design-m-nautilus-improvements
<vish> andreasn: a little similar to the slider in Win7
<knome> is there a way to give a GC a benchmark? i'm not sure if the new card is any better in inkscape than the old one...
<vish> knome: phoronix test suite?
<knome> vish, cheers!
<andreasn> vish, ah, interesting
 * andreasn bookmarks
<knome> vcan you propose some good tests?
<thorwil> fun: http://littlecms2.blogspot.com/2010/05/web-color-management.html
<thorwil> save the image and try eog/gimp
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-30
<knome> kwwii, jaunty group photo *cough*
<knome> kwwii, *uds jaunty
<islington> anyway to add metadata for a wallpaper in gnome?
<knome> vish, re: phoronix, can you suggest some good tests?
<vish> knome: hei , not sure , i havent used it .. maybe folks from #ubuntu-x can help?
<knome> ok... they seem to be a bit unresponsive though :P
<vish> knome: oh , they actually do respond when they are around ..
<knome> ;]
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-23
<marcushaslam> hi
<thorwil> morning!
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-25
<coz_>   ok have to break here,, be back a bit later
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-26
<gmulak> I have a computer lab at a church in Huntington Beach.  Among other things I am introducing Ubuntu.  Is it possible to get an Ubunu banner artwork for my classroom?
<thorwil> will be interesting to see if and when the impact will become visible on the outside: http://www.ivankamajic.com/general/ivanka-quo-vadis/
<ryrych> hello
<ryrych> can you tell me the name of high-end, good looking laptop that can run Ubuntu? Good for marketing purposes?
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-27
<coz_> hey guys
<thorwil> http://www.infocus.com/labs/all/visual-communication-%2526-collaboration/worst-ppt-slide-contest-winners
<cjohnston> I'm trying to get a screenshot of a web page that is longer than what I am able to view in my browser without scrolling.. Any suggestions on how I can do this?
<kwwii_> cjohnston: firefox in windows has a extension that can do that, maybe there is one for linux as well?
<kwwii_> hi all, btw, been a while
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-28
<coz_> anyone on the desing team, hey guys, out of curiosity,, long before natty was in the works,  you guys posted a contest for new sounds for 11.04  , including the darn bongos :). it was also mentioned that you were planning a utility or more options for easiy changing sound themes,, that never happended,  so I was wondering if this is going  to be implimented in oneiric
<Ronnie> cjohnston: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/pagesaver/ is a really nice addon for screenshots
<thorwil> coz_: after all this time, you still don't know the nicks of the design team members and notice their absence during the weekend? ;)
<coz_> thorwil,  lol sorry,, I know I probably should
<coz_> thorwil,  well  at least I have the question failry well composed :)
<coz_> heidi ho
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-29
<stjohnmedrano> good day everyone
<coz_>  hey guys
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-05-24
<tbrijeski> hi there - anyone know how ubiquity picks the gtk3 theme settings on a non gtk3 desktop environment?
#ubuntu-artwork 2013-05-24
<jonkirkman> Hello Friends
