#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-24
<rick_h_> woot! https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/AzF2YfvbtoQ
<snap-l> Just saw it
<snap-l> That is awesome.
<rick_h_droid> yea getting psyched to get something done. big milestone.
<snap-l> My only reason for using Rhythmbox nowadays is to determine the length of a playlist. Congratulations, now that doesn't even work.
<snap-l> OK, now it's working. Feh
<jcastro__> snap-l, http://ue.logitech.com/en-us
<jcastro__> looks like they relaunched everything
<snap-l> http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/09/23/on-the-recent-dash-improvements/#comment-660468666
<snap-l> jcastro__: Damnit, I hope they don't discontinue the touch.
<snap-l> And hard-core Squeezebox fans will lament the lack of interoperability with existing Squeezebox products.
<snap-l> Stay away.
<snap-l> http://reviews.cnet.com/portable-audio-devices/logitech-ue-smart-radio/4505-6450_7-35419331.html
<rick_h_> hmmm, custom fit in ear headphones...
<snap-l> Motherfucker.
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<snap-l> http://www.audiostream.com/content/did-logitech-just-kill-squeezebox
<snap-l> Apparently Logitech discontinued the Squeezebox
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> just been using ours a ton lately
<snap-l> Yeah, in favor of that dippy UE radio
<snap-l> And just after the article.
<rick_h_> ugh, have to visit 'your local audiologist' to get impressions before you can get the fit headphones
<snap-l> Well, I'm glad I got my article in Linux Journal this month instead of last month
<rick_h_> yea, good timing I guess
<snap-l> s/last/next/
<rick_h_> yea, I gotcha
<snap-l> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?96188-New-Squeezebox-Radio
<rick_h_> well at least they're addressing the UX problems
<snap-l> And it's nice they OSSed it so if they do decide to completely drop it or braindamage it, it can be recovered by the community
<jrwren> OH: "nice move shuttleworth"
<rick_h_> love this https://twitter.com/alex_gaynor/status/250106469427597312
<rick_h_> oh and morning and all that
<snap-l> rick_h_: Mildly deprecated? Is that like "mostly dead"?
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, can't figure that one out. "You really shouldn't use this...it might disappear...but who can say"
<brousch> I'm sure a DIY replacement based on rasperrypi will be out soon
<brousch> Sorry, that was last night's squeezebox discussion
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, there is a pretty strong core community
<snap-l> and one of the engineers is pretty active
<snap-l> but I fear what happens when he gets tired and leaves.
<snap-l> I think Logitech really boned this one
<rick_h_> well, tbh, there's a need for a cleaner UX product in the line thugoh
<rick_h_> it's not competing with the sonos/google tv, apple tv stuff of the world. And I know those say TV but they're music centers
<snap-l> True, but killing the existing line is not the way to do it.
<rick_h_> but with apps and such
<Blazeix> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-lens-shopping/+bug/1054282
 * rick_h_ shuts down the internet
<brousch> Unity has pr0n built-in now?! I'm switching!
<snap-l> I'm of two minds on that. On the one hand, the world is not made up of your narrow minded view of what is appropriate
<snap-l> On the other hand, if you're providing a shopping service in the OS, expect there to be minors using it.
<snap-l> In other words: if you're an adult, grow up. If you're not an adult, you have plenty of time to find this shit out later.
<rick_h_> my problem is in the comments. pulling out marks old comments on the wallpaper options
<rick_h_> that's just troll feeding there
<snap-l> Yeah, that's not appropriate
<snap-l> And frankly, it's not in the same context
<rick_h_> the joys of the internet
<snap-l> It's a compelling strawman
<snap-l> but if my mom starts typing something into her OS "Grey" and "50 shades of..." shows up, she'll be rather perplexed.
<snap-l> at least, I hope she would be, after she went on about how some 90 year old woman in one of her clubs happened to have it on her kindle.
<snap-l> (always the quiet ones)
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha, and LP is faster for all
<brousch> Go rick_h_!
<snap-l> Is anyone else seeing 0 subscribers for their feeds on Feedburner?
<snap-l> lococast, and all of my burned feeds are 0
<rick_h_> dammit! amazon quit 503'ing on me and let me give you money!
<rick_h_> snap-l: hmm, feed shows up but yea seeing the 0
<snap-l> strange
<snap-l> http://feedburnerstatus.blogspot.com/2012/09/known-issue-subscriber-counts-and-stats.html
<snap-l> At least it's a known issue.
<snap-l> btw: OLF is this weekend.
<snap-l> Free registration ends on Wednesday.
<snap-l> Also, we're hoping to share some space with the Ohio team, so if anyone is interested in helping out, please feel free
<snap-l> I'd like to get a count of everyone who can volunteer so we can plan out staffing the booth.
<rick_h_> jcastro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6K_n8DtDl2k is the youtube I'm watching
<jcastro> rick_h_can you get me the embed url to that?
<rick_h_> jcastro: https://pastebin.canonical.com/75176/
<jrwren> rofl, i typed into my squeeze window on accident and triggered repeat
<jrwren> i couldn't figure out why this song always had 2 min left
<snap-l> hah
<jrwren> snap-l: exactly
<rick_h__> brousch: how did that make/fabric thing go?
<brousch> rick_h_: Pretty well
<brousch> I'm trying fabric on another project
<rick_h__> cool
<brousch> I'm struggling with the local/remote part of it
<rick_h__> yea, that's the diconnect/reason to use one vs the other
<brousch> Like I want to run create_virtualenv locally and remotely, so I end up SShing into my own localhost
<brousch> Seems silly to me
<rick_h__> right
<brousch> But then I'm told that's actually useful for uncovering assumptions you've made or environment vars that you've set, like paths
<rick_h__> yea, but you end up coding paths that change on systems perhaps while make just defaults to the cwd
<brousch> Yeah, that's exactly what I've run into
<brousch> With Make my paths all work, with Fabric, I have to hardcode at least 1 path
<rick_h__> right
<brousch> Which seems like it will break when I deploy
<rick_h__> http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/09/24/14071703-airplane-windows-are-sealed-for-a-reason forget the politics...but funny
<brousch> I haven't tried function parameters in Make, but it's not too annoying in Fabric
<rick_h__> yea, if I've got to repeat things across 10 front end servers I'll use fabric
<rick_h__> but all fabric will be doing is calling make commands on each machine
<brousch> I mnea, when I wrap something like the South commands which require a specific app as a paramter
<brousch> python manage.py migrateschema <app> <--initial|--auto>
<rick_h__> right
<brousch> So how would passing paramters work in Make?
<rick_h__> so you need to use the stacking of things to setup env vars
<rick_h__> fabric prod migrate
<rick_h__> where prod() is a function to setup the app initial/auto
<brousch> Well in fabric I just use the paramters thing that's built in
<brousch> fab migrateschema:<app>,<--initial>
<brousch> I'm wondering how Make does that
<rick_h__> with env vars
<rick_h__> make APP=something INITIAL=true migate
<rick_h__> and then in your makefile you're looking for $APP and $INITIAL
<rick_h__> or something like that
<brousch> Ah
<brousch> Seems clunkier
<rick_h__> it's how I override the ini file to use. I've got a var in my Makefile BOOKIE_INI
<rick_h__> so make BOOKIE_INI=test_bookie.ini install
<rick_h__> will run make test, but with the BOOKIE_INI var overridden
<brousch> I think once I understand the local/remote thing I'll like Fabric more
<rick_h__> yea
<brousch> Right now, I'm using it for stuff I did with Make, and the local/remote is getting in the way
<rick_h__> right, and that's why I said your talk was good because they really are meant for two different use cases imo
<brousch> Part of it is my dislike of SSH keys
<brousch> I need to bite the bullet on those
<rick_h__> dude, can't live without
<rick_h__> ssh keys are one of the most amazing things ever
<rick_h__> though I do wish mass management were better and I'd use more different keys I think
<snap-l> I use different keys per machine
<brousch> PAsswords are in my head, keys are something I have to drag around with me
<snap-l> It's really straightforward
<snap-l> brousch: Passwords allow anyone access who knows the phrase
<brousch> So do keys, but the phrase is a lot longer
<snap-l> Passwords are like having a bouncer outside of your house. SSH Keys are like having good locks.
<rick_h__> no, they need the key and the phrase
<rick_h__> that's two bits of info vs 1
<devinheitmueller> SSH keys probably wouldn't get such user frustration if the OpenSSH people didn't do such a horrifically crappy job of exposing enough logging to figure out why they don't work.
<rick_h__> yea, I mean I would go nuts with every ssh/bzr/git connection needed a password
<rick_h__> I'm only logged into 4 machines currently with about 20 pushes to repos today
<brousch> Yeah, I have always had very few machines, so it's not been a problem for me
<rick_h__> it shouldn't have but made me laugh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkDz4wMI9J8
<jrwren> anyone know nick portelli ?
<jrwren> did you see the hitler gangnam style? i was laughing so much!
<rick_h__> hmm, know a few nick's but don't know last names so not sure I guess. Should I know him?
<jrwren> mid michigan, but wasn't sure if he was an ubuntu guy.
<snap-l> name not ringing a bell
<jrwren> plus, IMO he just trolled me pretty hard, or he is really brainwashed by his .NET dev and MSFT lov.
<snap-l> jrwren: That had to be an epic troll of history.
<greg-g> jrwren:  that is awesome (for others: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nv6C25XYps )
<greg-g> jrwren: there's a two hour version ;)
<jrwren> greg-g: oh, i haven't seen teh extended version
<rick_h__> that scares me that someone would put together 2hrs
<jrwren> greg-g: that one is terrible IMO
<jrwren> oh, maybe only the first 15 seconds was bad.
<jrwren> wtf, there is a 10hr version?!?!?!?!?!
<jrwren> but holy shit did they mess up the audio on this
<greg-g> oh, it was the first one for hitler gangnam :/
<jrwren> and apparently i wasn't logged into youtube when I watched a different one, becuase I cannot find it.
<snap-l> FFS
<snap-l> Apparently this is this generation's Macarena.
<jrwren> hrm, or who let the dogs out
<jrwren> I feel much more positive about gangnam style though.
<jrwren> greg-g: oh yeah, this has much better audio quality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Eo5YU_ueJc
<jrwren> snap-l: did you read the atlantic article about gangnam style ?
<jrwren> http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/08/gangnam-style-dissected-the-subversive-message-within-south-koreas-music-video-sensation/261462/
<snap-l> jrwren: I listened to NPR. I know more than I ever cared about Gangnam style
<snap-l> All I know is it got stupid when someone started mentioning Gungan style, and at that point I stopped caring.
<jrwren> hahaha, i'd have liked to hear the npr piece
<greg-g> yesssss https://plus.google.com/photos/108533366695714736629/albums/5791841023205899921/5791841029697780978
<jrwren> i equate gangnam style closer to livin lavida loca
<jrwren> The only reason to grow a beard is for the joy of shaving it and feeling cleanly shaved again.
<jcastro> greg-g, hey hippie
<jcastro> I got a worm inn
<jcastro> http://www.theworminn.com/
<brousch> That sounds like a bad thing
<jcastro> worms are awesome
<brousch> OH weird. You do it in your house?
<dzho> why not?
<dzho> they're quiet
<dzho> not as cuddly, but less smelly, than a dog
<brousch> I guess with 2 dogs and a 4 year old I'd be worried about the potential for disaster
<dzho> yeah, you need a basement or something that's a little more off-limits
<dzho> the scope for disaster is approximately that of the scope of a disaster of someone getting into the kitchen garbage
<dzho> depending on how much worm tea you generate and let accumulate
<dzho> because if you build up worm tea and someone tips it, that could get a little messy.
<brousch> I have added a very sturdy wire wrap for the garbage due to dogs getting in there
<dzho> yow
<jcastro> dzho, so supposedly it doesn't drip much
<jcastro> they come out fluffy with this one since it's more aerated than say, the solid ones that are made of plastic
<jcastro> still, they recommend a bucket underneath
<snap-l> Yeah, to catch all of the worm vomit.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-25
<brousch> Atwater Decadent Dark Chocolate Ale FTW
<brousch> It smells like hot chocolate
<snap-l> Had a Double Cream Porter at the Royal Oak Brewery.
<brousch> I had a Dark Horse Too Cream Stout. It was gross
<brousch> geekers https://bitbucket.org/pygame/pygame/issue/140/pip-install-pygame-fails-on-ubuntu-1204
<snap-l> brousch: I have never used pygame in virtualenv. I use the packages.
<brousch> snap-l: barbaric
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> lmao http://goo.gl/RJrci
<rick_h_> anyone have an S3? I want to test something out :P
<brousch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/1055766
<rick_h_> no one uses gnome terminal :P
<rick_h_> man, can we please send this bug submitter to a conference I'm also at? grrrr people
<brousch> So you can hug him and buy him a beer?
<rick_h_> oh yea...definitely
<dzho> I love that bug.
<dzho> I should submit an "affects me too"
<dzho> rick_h_: which conference?
<dzho> anyone hitting olf later this week, for instance?
<rick_h_> dzho: just talking smack
<rick_h_> not making OLF this year but some people are
<dzho> oh, darn.  I was hoping for the beer part of that, at least.
<dzho> ;-)
<snap-l> I'm attending OLF
<dzho> cool.
<dzho> I think I met you and rick_h_ last year.
<dzho> this way, maybe I'll be able to learn which nick goes with whom.
<brousch> snap-l has hair on his head. rick_h_ has hair on his face
<rick_h_> yea, snap-l and I ran a Lococast booth last year
<rick_h_> and had some michigan loco stuff
<snap-l> dzho: Beware my natural tendencies to screw with people.
<snap-l> brousch: not for long
<snap-l> If i have hair on my face, it's because the stuff on top jumped ship
<dzho> snap-l: this is IRC, isn't it?  I think that kind of caution is pretty much default setting.
<snap-l> heh
<dzho> but, still, confirmation is always nice, thanks!
<rick_h_> blackberry fun http://www.androidcentral.com/can-t-believe-all-your-former-blackberry-users-left-behind
<rick_h_> took a little break from work to do a nice music video for their devs, how sweet
<greg-g> I kind of find that gnome-terminal bug funny :)
<greg-g> even sabdfl had a sense of humor about it
<brousch> ohmy http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/25/google_maps_on_ios6/
<greg-g> rick_h_: btw, was that your first LP blog post?
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I think so
<rick_h_> what's cool is that it was my project I picked to do/start on back in Jan after I'd been there all of 2 months.
<rick_h_> so kind of my baby
<greg-g> awesome, well done sir
<rick_h_> well hopefully there's some more snap for some of you guys
<rick_h_> not going to change the world, but should be slightly noticable
<snap-l> brousch: That's a non-story re: Google iOS maps
 * greg-g doesn't do much LP stuff anymore
<greg-g> my days of bug triaging are effectively over
<snap-l> They didn't say they wouldn't, they said they have no plans
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, most don't
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, lst jam I spent the hours on askubuntu
<brousch> snap-l: But I see so many Apple fanboys saying Google will rescue them from ios6 maps misery
<snap-l> Nice: got a mail from Pandora re: backing the Internet Radio Fairness act
<brousch> This is saying they have no plans to do so
<snap-l> brousch: No, it's someone asking an exec a question that he likely wasn't ready for, or didn't want to tip his hand
<greg-g> uh, he was ready for it, you know that for sure
<snap-l> saying "We have no plans" is like a reflex action for CEOs
<greg-g> he's been thinking about how to answer that question since iOS6 came out
<snap-l> That's their "Uh"
<greg-g> no, it is "you guys made the wrong choice going with apple"
<rick_h_> I'm so sick of apple and their fans. Even my boss was going "how does google get open credit?" crap today
<greg-g> who's your boss? :)
<greg-g>  
<brousch> open credit?
<snap-l> Even so, Apple has been pretty clear about making competing apps being a big no-no in their app store
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/deryckh
<rick_h_> well we debated what counts as 'open' a little bit
<rick_h_> there's levels to it for sure
<snap-l> yeah, I loved discussing open APIs as a replacement for OSS with some developers
<rick_h_> and I won't say android is OSS since it's closed door dev'd and then opened
<snap-l> it was like trying to debate the merits of chocolate over the merits of canned peas.
<snap-l> In the end, nobody was convinced.
<rick_h_> it's turned into religion and politics
<rick_h_> I've never had a discussion and had someone walk away with their mind changed
<snap-l> The biggest problem is arguing pragmatism with idealism.
<rick_h_> even with languages you can discuss and walk away with new ideas/thoughts about languages/uses
<snap-l> pragmatically, you can get things done quite efficiently with Apple hardware
<snap-l> but from a FOSS idealistic perspective, you may as well be bathing in baby blood if you even think lustfully over an Apple product.
<snap-l> Also, fuck the Football talk
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> Seriously, if the NFL suddenly up and vanished into thin air, I'd be hard pressed to notice
<snap-l> And quite convinced I wouldn't care.
<jrwren> OSS has always been about religeon and politics. stallman says atheism and communism respectively.
<rick_h_> yea, but I don't think the phone wars is OSS or not
<rick_h_> I think it's much more the old MS vs Apple, choice vs one true path
<dzho> free licensing has almost always been about pragmatism to me
<brousch> I posted this to my friend who spammed my twitter and FB feeds with football crap last night http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/127663
<dzho> I *hate* licensing paperwork
<snap-l> rick_h_: The phone wars are somewhat driven by licensing
 * greg-g ignores the convo for a bit ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: 'somewhat'
<brousch> dzho++
<dzho> I just switched a bunch of macs from osx to windows in large part because windows will sell us licenses for a currently-supported version of their OS that runs on that hardware, that *Apple* hardware, and Apple won't.
<snap-l> greg-g: Calling you out on purpose. ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: it's also that I can choose to have a 3.5", 4", 5" phone. Or run amazon or google on it. Or get one that's locked or an unlocked dev phone.
<dzho> the other part is that we have to run some instrumentation software that runs only on one or the other.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, that's the main thing about Android: the abundance of choice
<jrwren> i liked this one on google being "open" http://daringfireball.net/2011/08/google_patently_absurd
<dzho> otherwise, of course, I think I could make a good case at this point for Ubuntu
<dzho> Android is sort of quasi-free
 * greg-g plugs his ears "la la la la la la"
<greg-g> :P
<dzho> it has free stuff in it, but the whole bit of it isn't.
<rick_h_> jrwren: right, which is why I don't think the debate is on that level
<rick_h_> but if you put the two side by side and ask why one gets more 'open' credit than the other...there's a lot of other stuff to choose from that feed the feeling 'open'
<snap-l> jrwren: Honestly, I don't blame any company for their patent actions. It's gotten to the point where purchasing patents are all about firepower.
<rick_h_> choice itself makes it feel more open
<dzho> speaking of choice on Android devices, I'd like to see this running with full hardware support: http://9fans.net/archive/2011/09/308
<snap-l> though I have serious dislike for Apple's suit against Samsung
<snap-l> because it's all of the look and feel bullshit that was trounced in the 1990s
<dzho> "Never love a company, because a company can't love you back"
<jrwren> dzho: that looks interesting. i want to see similar with mono :)
<jrwren> what is teh UI like if there is no java/dalvik layer?
<dzho> Inferno is basically Plan 9, I think.
<snap-l> jrwren: Probably like a single screenbuffer
<dzho> > Instead, emu draws directly to the Linux framebuffer (thanks,
<dzho> Andrey, for the initial code!) and treats the touchscreen like a
<dzho> one-button mouse.
<snap-l> s/screen/frame/
<jrwren> ah, i want more than that :)
<jrwren> but that is academically cool
 * dzho nods
<dzho> yeah, that's about the level of it
<dzho> proof-of-concept
<snap-l> jrwren: it'll run DOSBox like a bat out of hell
<snap-l> then you can get that pocket DOS machine you've dreamed of for YEARS.
<jrwren> something tells me xterm makes a shitty phone
<dzho> I love osso-xterm under Maemo on my n900
<snap-l> jrwren: ssh in an Android app tells me XTerms without keyboards are a shitty idea
<dzho> it's a crap phone, but a wonderful miniature Debian box.
 * snap-l had the 770.
<dzho> with Hacker Keyboard on a 7" tablet, ssh is almost useable
<snap-l> It was way ahead of it's time
<snap-l> and by way ahead, I mean it was pretty shit.
<dzho> haha
<dzho> I bet it had rounded corners, even then.
<snap-l> Yeah, funny enough, had Apple put a DPad on the iPhone, Nokia could have made a case.
<snap-l> (for design infringement)
<dzho> mmm.
<dzho> I'd say gameboys et al constitute prior art there
<greg-g> to change the subject, this bug just went across my email: " Gwibber don't work in 12.04 (I see only grey screen)
<snap-l> Thankfully that bridge never got crossed.
<greg-g> bug 1030904
<snap-l> I'm not using Gwibber nearly as much ever since they started loading the whole damn timeline into memory
<snap-l> It scrolls for shit, and is pretty much unusable on my desktop machine
<snap-l> rick_h_: Question: Which programming languages should I know to get an internship or job at a top-notch company like Google, Facebook,
<snap-l> +Apple, etc.?
<snap-l> (from Quora digest)
<snap-l> proving there is such a thing as a stupid question
<rick_h_> snap-l: lol
<rick_h_> <3 alex https://twitter.com/alex_gaynor/status/250650329899753472
<brousch> So why don't you marry him? You can be humorless together for ever
<rick_h_> ok, seriously? I mean f*@$#@ seriously? http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/25/for-microsoft-googles-robohornet-browser-benchmark-isnt-real-world-enough-launches-its-own-version/
<rick_h_> so rather than say...submit a patch to the 'alpha' tool you just add "Pro" to the end and do your own thing. DIE IE DIE
<snap-l> Control the message
<snap-l> That's the Microsoft way
<rick_h_> I mean it's on github, in alpha, and pull requests welcome. So they add "Pro" to the end...of course!
<rick_h_> and it completes in 6s in chrome while the non-pro thing runs tests for minutes
<snap-l> It's like the guy that took a hex editor and started marketing SY-DOS (instead of MS-DOS)
<snap-l> rick_h_: So clearly it's a more optimized benchmark. ;)
<snap-l> most people only use the web for short bursts anyway.
<snap-l> (roll with that as you see fit)
 * rick_h_ just jumps out the window. The internet stupid is too high today
<snap-l> Oh c'mon. It's a great day for the Internet
<snap-l> NFL Sub Refs, Twitter replacing followers with Klout?, Robohornet Pro, What should I do with my life so I can work for Facebook / Google / Apple?
<rick_h_> don't forget that grep fails to search amazon
<snap-l> Not just amazon, but the whole universe.
<brousch> I just made a West MI Dutchman cry
<brousch> He showed me his shiny iPhone5 and I showed him my bigger, faster, cheaper Android
<jrwren> so what is the story about ads?
<jrwren> oh, the ads lens.
<jrwren> maybe a duckduckgo lens there too so that search is search, local or web.
<rick_h_> jrwren: so see https://twitter.com/alex_gaynor/status/250650329899753472
<rick_h_> for the lovely community response to the lense hitting amazon by default
<rick_h_> snap-l: going to email this to my wife http://blog.appfog.com/could-portland-be-the-best-city-in-the-country-for-developers-right-now/ :P
<jcastro_> jrwren, there's going to be a toggle to turn it on and off
<jcastro_> and it's not ads really
<jcastro_> it's just amazon results in your dash
<jcastro_> so if you search for "megadeth" it shows you CDs, DVDs and whatnot
<snap-l> rick_h_: You just put in new floors. ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: *sigh* true
<snap-l> "Okay, so Iâm biased. Iâm a native Portlander and I love living here. Iâm Portlandâs staunchest defender and was so way before Portland was considered cool."
<snap-l> Oh come on
<snap-l> "But what makes it even better is that it acts as the de facto hub of the Portland tech scene. Whenever I go there, it feels like a scene from Cheers."
<snap-l> Not exactly the kind of aspirational thing I'd expect from a bar.
<snap-l> The weather. This is a source of almost endless complaint, but if you ask AppFog founder and CEO Lucas Carlson, having 8-9 months a year of crummy weather offers a hidden productivity boost: âThe great thing about Portland is that itâs rainy 9 months out of the year. Iâm more productive here than I am anywhere else.â As a native, I couldnât agree more.
<rick_h_> lol, that's the part I was waiting for you to hit
<snap-l> OK, the church of elvis might sell me.
<rick_h_> "it's not a bug, it's a feature"
<snap-l> 24 hours
<jcastro_> the beer in portland
<jcastro_> period.
<snap-l> Well, that sinks it then. Their beer has periods
<snap-l> or do they have period beer, as in I'd like a Renaissance Porter?
<snap-l> and it's served by a jolly looking chap with a bad English accent?
<jrwren> no way is their beer as good as MI beer :)
<snap-l> beer smackdown in t-minus...
<rick_h_> ok, so this is about the coolest thing ever http://paste.mitechie.com/show/ueNU9dCI8MZEmDpc2OFM/
<brousch> Is it a patch to make grep search Amazon?
<rick_h_> lol, almost :P
<brousch> hah, that is cool
<brousch> Other than the MSU part
<rick_h_> my wife went to med school at MSU so I have to forgive it for existing
<brousch> I thought that was only for vets
<snap-l> rick_h_: That's awesome.
<rick_h_> brousch: no, they've got a pretty high up there vet program, but they also have a medical school
<rick_h_> ok, today is trying to get some awesome to it https://twitter.com/nchan/status/250662314607538176 wow
<rick_h_> I want to go drive wherever that it at and see it in person
<brousch> Germany
<brousch> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=126969
<brousch> Why did a German create an american aircraft carrier? I have not a clue
<rick_h_> because they learned that carriers + planes > u-boats?
<brousch> There's a Legoland in Chicago that's supposed to be good
<brousch> $2 off discount code for LEGO Kidsfest in Novi Oct 12-14 (GRK12)
<greg-g> snap-l: can I troll you for just a second?
<greg-g> ;)
<greg-g> http://identi.ca/conversation/96184387
<greg-g> (not sure if you follow @mlinksva or not)
<snap-l> Yeah, and MichaÅ Andrzej WoÅºniak tried trolling me too
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> sorry, just wanted to point you toward it. Though, retrospectively, I realize it is unneeded and potentially only blood pressure rising.
<snap-l> No worries
<snap-l> They're in love with the medium, not the message
<snap-l> And that's fine.
<greg-g> That's unfair.
<snap-l> my "Communication without an audience is meaningless." quote was probably too broad. Should have been "communication without recipients is meaningless", but whatever. Point is, no matter how awesomely a tree falls, if nobody hears it, it doesn't matter.
<snap-l> (in the context of social media)
<greg-g> good thing identi.ca isn't empty, then ;)
<greg-g> and, since I'm not going for ad-clicks.... ;)
<snap-l> Well, it's also why people have left identi.ca: they didn't like the audience
<greg-g> sure, it has some specific communities in it, tightly bound
<snap-l> It has a pretty high crank ratio
<snap-l> (of which I include myself in that category)
<greg-g> bah, I never see it
<greg-g> (other than you, of course ;) )
<greg-g> I've determined that groups make sense in the huge internal corporate network use case, but not on identi.ca
<snap-l> Groups were poorly though out tags
<greg-g> (and even that use case is up for debate, just because I haven't tested it)
<greg-g> CC's 'internal' status.net is quite small (we're quite small)
<snap-l> It's nice to be able to subscribe to a particular group (tag)
<snap-l> but the usage became synonymous with tags
<snap-l> !ubuntu !debian !metal !alpacafuckers
<greg-g> yeah
 * greg-g will brb
 * ColonelPanic001 notes greg-g's tweet about foreign cars
<ColonelPanic001> Ohio-made Civic here.
<ColonelPanic001> last car was a Cavalier, many of which (though not mine) were made in Mexico
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: haha, glad someone was paying attention
<greg-g> his private response: "I know, I almost defined that, but was lazy. And I agree. But this parking lot was mostly Fords. So, American-owned brands. " my reply "I give no fuck about who owns the trademark. I care about real jobs. Apparently, Ford drivers are just like Apple users (zing!). "
<ColonelPanic001> haha
<ColonelPanic001> I sort of wish my Chevy had been made in Mexico, just so it'd be a better example. heh
<greg-g> :)
<ColonelPanic001> but alas. Stupid american factories, making my cars
<greg-g> yeah, my Ford Ranger was made in St. Paul ;)
<ColonelPanic001> is the Expedition they make out by Toronto area?
<ColonelPanic001> I know they've got a Ford plant or two out there, can't remember for what
<greg-g> before The Great Deer Collision of 2007
<ColonelPanic001> hm. maybe it's GM? Now I can't remember. I know they make cars out there, damnit
<brousch> I got into the cheaper-than-S3 Dreamhost storage beta
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-26
<jrwren> is it s3 ?
<jrwren> http api?
<snap-l> Jesus, playing semantics on identi.ca
<snap-l> no wonder people were knocking themselves over to hang out there. :-P
<jcastro_> rick_h_ hey
<rick_h_> jcastro_: yep
<jcastro_> rick_h_ recommendation for like a laser wall thing?
<jcastro_> for like lining things up
<jcastro_> or does it matter
<rick_h_> The big thing is get something that runs both ways if you can. So you put it on the wall once and have a line both directions to hang stuff
<rick_h_> I got one with the 3M removable sticky things and works great
<jcastro_> ok
<rick_h_> don't know on the suction kind and I didn't want anything that made a hole
<jcastro_> do I need a stud finder?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> you'll find things that need to be on studs, or to avoid the studs
<rick_h_> especially electical
<jrwren> you may not borrow my wife for that.
<snap-l> jrwren: He said stud finder, not drip detector. ;)
<snap-l> Why did that suddenly feel like a Welcome Back Kotter line?
<jrwren> *sad trombone*
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> ouch http://blog.cihar.com/archives/2012/09/26/compromised-sourceforge-mirror/?utm_source=rss2
<rick_h_> finally read the stuff on that this morning
<brousch> Interesting
<brousch> Another rough week for poor Dave
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> brousch: Likely not Dave's baliwick
<snap-l> But still sucks because it takes resources away from other projects.
<brousch> jrwren: Dreamhosts object storage is not S3, but has a S3-compatible API
<rick_h_> *cough* openstack *cough* I think
<brousch> Yeah
<brousch> "Canonical Ltdâs Ubuntu Linux 12.4 powers DreamObjects"
<brousch> http://dreamhost.com/press-releases/dreamhost-introduces-dreamobjects-cloud-storage-service/
<jrwren> s3 compat abpi is cool.
<jrwren> we need that in our basements.
<snap-l> kitten has discovered the joy of paper towel
<snap-l> and toilet paper
<rick_h_> snap-l: hah
<brousch> Full HD tablet from B&N for $270 http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/Compare-NOOKs/379003181
<brousch> I thought they would give up
<snap-l> brousch: Nah, they still have a compelling story to tell
<snap-l> Wonder if the nook tablet will get an upgrade
<snap-l> Thinking htat's highly doubtful
<brousch> Those new tablets are better specs than the Kindle fires
<brousch> snap-l: Thise are the upgrades
<snap-l> I hean software upgrades for current owners
<brousch> ah, software
<brousch> Haven't there been software updates?
<rick_h_> right, but no amazon video, no amazon music
<rick_h_> they've got devices without content :/
<brousch> I remember one of them broke the Nook Color rooting hole for a while
<brousch> rick_h_: Root and ROM
<snap-l> from the press release, it doesn't sound like it
<jcastro_> jrwren, yeah so the dreamhost thing is cool
<jcastro_> because it's like 4 cents cheaper than S3 last I checked
<brousch> What is Coderwall? http://coderwall.com/brousch/achievements/33707
<brousch> They just wander the web stalking people and giving them badges?
<rick_h_> http://coderwall.com/mitechie it started out as badges for github stuff
<rick_h_> "you've got 5 python projects" etc
<brousch> "Rick needs just 3 more endorsements to unlock ActionScript"
<brousch> I'm so going to endorse you
<brousch> Even better, PHP
<jcastro_> "Git has taken over where Linux left off separating the geeks into know-nothings and know-it-alls. I didnât really expect anyone to use it because itâs so hard to use, but that turns out to be its big appeal. No technology can ever be too arcane or complicated for the black t-shirt crowd."
<jcastro_> linus is so awesome
<brousch> "Rick needs just 3 more endorsements to unlock PHP"
<jcastro_> there you go rick_h_
<rick_h_> heh, thankfully it proves I've left my bad habits behind me...
<snap-l> rick_h_: You're always one hit away from going back to bad habits
<snap-l> <- king of bad habits
<dzho> jcastro_: word is you're going to be hitting Columbus soon
<jcastro_> yeah, friday
<snap-l> jcastro_: No way we can convince you to stay through Saturday?
<jcastro_> can't
<jcastro_> jill has an open house on saturday we have to go to
<jcastro_> for her work
<dzho> bummer
<snap-l> understandable. No worries.
<snap-l> Grateful for the bit of time we'll have.
<snap-l> NOOK Cloud: All NOOK content is delivered via Wi-Fi and safely stored through NOOK Cloud, making NOOK Books, videos, apps and other content accessible across NOOK, personal computing and mobile devices using free NOOK Reading and NOOK Video apps.
<snap-l> Apparently Digital Locker is now referred to as "Cloud"
<rick_h_> online == cloud, didn't you hear?
<rick_h_> you need to contact your cloud service provider if you can't access google
<brousch> It's a cloud if they have more than one datacenter
<snap-l> It's like everything being called "mainframe"
<brousch> The cloud is mainframes!
<brousch> I'll be at GrrCON tomorrow with Kevin Mitnick. Who wants an authograph?
<snap-l> brousch: Too bad there's not enough time for you to grab my copy of Art of Deception
<brousch> But there is time for you to come!
<greg-g> snap-l / brousch that joke is almost too close to true :/
<snap-l> greg-g: The cloud / mainframe one?
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> Yeah, it's enough to make a semantic lawyer nearly apoplectic.
<greg-g> snap-l: so, I don't know, I just have to say that in the morning, when I reading the twitter and identi.ca "scrollback" I see much more awesome discussion on identi.ca. Which, is obviously a function of  who I follow where (what else would it be a function of? medium isn't that different). Which is why I'm on a twitter following purge
<greg-g> so, all I'm saying is, I find the (smaller number of) people I follow on identi.ca to be more interesting, generally, than the (much larger number of) people I follow on twitter, except! for getting news
<greg-g> news is still better from twitter, my followers there tend to be more (openly) political
<snap-l> greg-g: Oh, I've never sipped in the quality of the conversation
<snap-l> s/sipped/dipped/
<snap-l> if I need to know the pulse of CC or OSS, identi.ca is the place
<greg-g> so, I think an important thing is to clarify, it isn't the medium, it is who you follow. Which is why I was careful to say "those who I follow on identi.ca versus who I follow on twitter"
<rick_h_> right, all these tools are what you make of them
<snap-l> Absolutely
<snap-l> It's like the people who bitch about Mongolian having dry meat, after making a bowl of essentially meatloaf.
<snap-l> (no veggies, no sauce, etc)
<greg-g> so yeah, apparently I follow more interesting people (to my taste) on identi.ca than twitter, minus the news commentary on twitter, which is why I follow both
<snap-l> The reason for the original post was to disabuse folks from seeking api freedom from Twitter.
<snap-l> And also to explain why "muggles" aren't flocking to the OSS freedom
<snap-l> Twitter's audience knows what they want, and identi.ca / Diaspora / etc. don't yet have that
<snap-l> and that's the folks they follow.
<snap-l> "I want heated leather seats in my car" does not mean I want a heated waterbottle in my pants when I drive.
<snap-l> No matter how efficient / portable that waterbottle may be over the seat warmers
<snap-l> People couldn't care less about Facebook or Twitter as development platforms, they care more about who they can access.
<snap-l> And why some people still log into AIM or Yahoo chat
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> WHich was the genesis of the "Conversation without an audience is meaningless" debacle.
<jrwren> the dreamhost dreamstore says they use ceph, that is the piece i want to run myself in our datacenter.
<jcastro_> yeah they use ceph
<jcastro_> and you can set up something similar to what they have
<jrwren> yeah, I think i shall
<jcastro_> http://marathon.ubuntuonair.com/
<jcastro_> I am doing a charity drive!
<jcastro_> Any donations accepted!
<jcastro_> I'm supporting music education in poor schools via littlekidsrock.org
<jcastro_> snap-l, come on buddy, pony up
<jcastro_> I can't lose to jono
<snap-l> jcastro_: I will when the next check comes in
<brousch> Is the Thinkpad x220 still a recommended laptop?
<rick_h_> I've got the 230 and <3
<brousch> I'm worried about downgrading to 1366x768
<jrwren> its fine when you are on the go, and when you aren't, use an external display.
<jrwren> and if you are on the go but need to settle in, use airdisplay and your ipad as a second monitor... oh wait...
<brousch> I rarely use 2 monitors
<jrwren> no dual display? wtf do you do?
<brousch> workspaces are my thing
<brousch> i have 10 workspaces
<brousch> I can get 1600x900 on a thinkpad T420
<jrwren> yeah, but its HUGE.  14" is way to big.
<jrwren> if you go T420, at least go T420s
<jrwren> 1440x900 would be a lot nicer on that small screen though.
<jrwren> how often do you buy?
<jrwren> IMO its a terrible time to buy.
<jrwren> in 6mo to 1yr apple will put retina on mac book air, and then 6mo after that everyone else will be catching up.
<brousch> I bought this one 4 years ago, and the MBP 2 years ago
<brousch> So I guess every 2 years I buy something that's 2 years old
<jrwren> so the next year or so will be a notebook display revolution IMO
<brousch> 1280x800 on the MBP annoys me
<brousch> I think 768 does not suit my needs
<brousch> I buy 2 year old laptops to minimize bleeding edge issues with linux
<brousch> Wow Asus Zenbook UX21A 11.6" screen with 1920x1080
<jrwren> 1280x800 on an MBP? my MBA is 1440x900, how did you get such a small display?
<greg-g> brousch: btw, I hate the x220 display size. It's about 90% of the reason I'm using my x200s 100% of the time
<brousch> jrwren: It's from mid 2009 13.3"
<brousch> greg-g: x200s has more pixels?
<brousch> oh man, max of 4GB RAM?
<greg-g> my x200s actually has 8gigs in it, and it works, but that's the *real real* max
<greg-g> brousch: and yeah, 1440x900 instead of the stupid 768 or whatever
<greg-g> and I hate the new aspect ratio all laptops are going to :/
<brousch> hm, no touchpad. seems like scrolling would be hard
<greg-g> NIPPL!
<greg-g> +E
<brousch> i can't scroll with the nipple
<greg-g> yeah you can
<brousch> e?
<greg-g> takes two fingers, just like it would on a touchpad
<greg-g> thumb on middle 'mouse' button, and index finger on nipple
<brousch> hm, doesn't work on my dell
<greg-g> well, dells suck ;)
<greg-g> actually, it may need a fix in your synaptics config, I remember it not working OOTB on all laptop in Ubuntu
<brousch> I don't have a proper middle mouse button
<greg-g> well then, I have no idea how you scroll on that with out a middle mouse button nor touchpad ;)
<brousch> pg up/pg down
<greg-g> I guess so, and space bar
<greg-g> install Vimperator and use vim keybindings to scroll in Fx
<rick_h_> logoff time, see you all in VA
 * rick_h_ starts getting the twitches
<greg-g> for?
<jrwren> no two finger scrolling?
<snap-l> evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-27
<snap-l> Morning
<snap-l> OK, rick_h_ leaves for a bit, and this channel goes dark
<snap-l> seriously.
<rick_h_droid> hah checking in
<rick_h_droid> 4G at the grandmother's rocks for planning side trips
<snap-l> Nice.
<rick_h_droid> jcastro_ dude see you at uds it looks like.
<rick_h_droid> Thank goodness Detroit has an expedited passport location
<jcastro_> \o/
<snap-l> rick_h_droid: That's awesome.
<jcastro_> you didn't have a passport?
<Blazeix> not for his current cover identity.
<rick_h_droid> it expires in March. didn't think we were going
<rick_h_droid> just got the heads up today
<jcastro_> hey guys
<jcastro_> http://2012.detroit.wordcamp.org/
<jcastro_> did anyone know this existed?
<snap-l> I heard about it in my periphery, but I'm not a WP developer, so I promptly ignored it
<snap-l> jcastro_: Did you hear about 1DevDay Detroit?
<jcastro_> nope
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2012/09/25/are-you-going-to-1devday-detroit/
<snap-l> jcastro_: ^^
<jcastro_> ok that's cool
<rick_h_> jcastro_: yea, 1devday is good stuff
<rick_h_> jcastro_: and no, didn't hear about wordcamp
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-28
<snap-l> http://cruelcorruptrecordings.bandcamp.com/album/forever-your-valentine <- Metal
<snap-l> http://jbaron.bandcamp.com/track/countdown <-FML
<snap-l> apparently there is a comoc convention next to Ohio Linuxfest
<greg-g> alright, other than the Tims, Cliff, and Brewster, who in this series should I listen to?
<greg-g> http://town.hall.org/radio/Geek/
<jrwren> rick_h_: I need some python coaching
<jrwren> nevermind. http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3148/ FTW
<greg-g> ok, second question that'll go unanswered for the day: what should my new wireless router be?
<jrwren> i hear great things about TL-WDR3600
<jrwren> and the price is nice.
<snap-l> I have a netgear
<snap-l> The N300, iirc
<greg-g> thanks, I get overwhelmed with routers. Each one has diehard lovers and diehard haters
<snap-l> myopenrouter.net, iirc
<snap-l> http://www.myopenrouter.com/
<UnFixed> that TL-WDR3600 looks really nice.
<Blazeix> i usually look for what's well-supported by dd-wrt, then choose from that list
<snap-l> WR3500L is what I have, with Tomato on it
<snap-l> BUt they sell it with the N300 moniker on it. You have to look at the labels
<snap-l> Turnd my nose up on a ton of them before I realied that Staples had a ton of them in stock.
<UnFixed> I hate the different versions they have on routers.
<UnFixed> often early versions are supported, while later ones arent.
<greg-g> UnFixed: yep, annoying
<snap-l> Yeah, it's a real PITA how they overload the numbes
<greg-g> UnFixed: and you can't tell which one you'll get from eg Amazon when it is a rev difference
<UnFixed> yup
 * greg-g nods
<jrwren> my TL-WDR3600 recommendation is from johnf in arslinux, he likes openwrt on it.
<greg-g> thanks all  :)
<greg-g> I trust #ubuntu-us-mi more than Amazon or Newegg reviews ;)
<UnFixed> I might pick one up myself. Been having bad luck with wireless router recently.
<greg-g> hmm, the WDR4300 is $99 (vs the $69 for the 3600) from Amazon. The 3600 isn't in stock for Amazon, but Newegg has it for that price. But, with shipping and tax the Newegg $60 3600 is more expensive
<UnFixed> have you checked locally?
<UnFixed> also
<greg-g> no
<UnFixed> im seeing free 3-day shipping from newegg
<greg-g> oh right, 3 day, yeah, I suppose that was an unfair comparison
<UnFixed> also, v1.1 works with openwrt
<UnFixed> not sure if there are later or earlier versions of it for sale.
<greg-g> apparently just one; http://www.tp-link.com/en/support/download/?productcategoryid=201&model=TL-WDR3600
<greg-g> nevermind the warning, click teh "I know how to find my version" button
<UnFixed> ah, perfect.
<greg-g> yep :)
<greg-g> btw, UnFixed, I don't think we've met. I'm Greg. Actually living in CA (SF) now but long time Ubuntu Michigan member
<UnFixed> I'm Arslan. I'm positive we've never met because ive only been in this channel a few times. I work with _stink_ and ColonelPanic001 at WSU.
<greg-g> oh, well then, with friends like that....
<_stink_> UnFixed: i told you not to admit this!
<ColonelPanic001> SRSLY
<ColonelPanic001> You don't make friends by admitting to a connection with me
<ColonelPanic001> "oh good god, this guy is just going to talk about internet memes all day, too"
<UnFixed> I'm not very good at this game. Time to go back to nethack.
<jrwren> cats?
<greg-g> snap-l: me biking into a parked pickup truck when 10 years old
<greg-g> my rear shifter wasn't working, so I was peddling and looking at it and BAM!
<snap-l> Hello there.
<snap-l> greg-g: I didn't see that in the post (but I was skimming it)
<snap-l> btw: here at OLF
<snap-l> getting ready for nice dinner w/ J
<brousch> I am scared to turn on my computers
<brousch> GrrCON has scarred me for life
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> I'm on the 4G on my phone. ;)
<snap-l> Tethered.
<greg-g> snap-l: "or Diane Slough, R.N. who cared for my son in the Emergency Department at our âold hospitalâ when he rode his bicycle into the back of a pick-up truck in 1992, "
<snap-l> Ah.
<snap-l> greg-g: I never told you about the time I got my leg caught in a tree, did I?
<snap-l> Now we're even. ;)
<greg-g> haha, awesome
<snap-l> Yeah, was climbing this tree that had two trunks (was split down the middle)
<snap-l> spying on the neighbor kids behind us
<snap-l> WEll, managed to slip, and get my leg sandwiched inbetween
<snap-l> kids noticed me trying to get out, and tried to get my mom. "Lady, your kid is stuck in the tree"
<snap-l> NEighbors acrosss the street managed to get a piece of wood in between to leverage me loose.
<greg-g> wow
<brousch> I climbed a pine tree in the backyard to a height of about 40ft. A branch broke and I tumbled down. My belt loop caught on on the little spikes on a chain linked fence and stopped my fall 1ft from the ground
<greg-g> holy cow
<brousch> Crazy
<brousch> My step-dad watched me fall from the driveway
<jjesse-android> Brousch I must have missed you at grrcon why are you scarred for life
<brousch> were you there?
<jjesse-android> Yeah I was st ck in the vendor area
<brousch> No matter what I do, the hackers will get me. They are too smart
<jjesse-android> Lol I bet
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-29
<jjesse-android> I didn't turn to on my computer or my phone
<brousch> I avoided the vendors, except for beer
<brousch> One guy showed how he ran DLP on his home network to monitor his wife and kids
<brousch> At least now I know what DLP does
<jjesse-android> That's an interesting use case
<jjesse-android> What dlp product did he say?
<brousch> He didn't day, but it looked Semantic to me
<brousch> say
<jjesse-android> Oh Symantec :-)
<jjesse-android> It's an awesome product but like I said weird use case
<brousch> He admitted that
<brousch> But then showed how it was useful
<jjesse-android> I think I met the guy he works for Symantec and lives in Iowa
<snap-l> Evening
<snap-l> Wonderingif anyone is here at OLF?
<dzho> snap-l: me too ;-)
<greg-g> holy crap: http://pastebin.com/9RBBniM1
<snap-l> greg-g: Are you shitting me?
<snap-l> Not good. Lots of folks relied on CIA.vc.
<snap-l> Though if they didn't have an offsite backup, that's just dumb.
<jrwren> what was cia.vc ?
<jrwren> wait? is that OLD news? http://scanlime.org/2011/05/cia-vc-service-is-down-indefinitely/
<greg-g> uh, it wasn't down a while ago I know, I was checking it out for something within the last 1.5 months
<derekv> hi
<jjesse> hello
<derekv> good place for pulic domain/free use icons?
<derekv> jus need some "delete item" png or svg
<derekv> nvm
<rick_h_> ugh, migraine during vacation FML
<snap-l> ugh
<snap-l> sorry to hear that
<rick_h_> all good, got some really nice meds
<rick_h_> will sleep like a rock tonight
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-30
<derekv> ouchbarf
<derekv> migrains suck
<derekv> hacking up android bookie
<derekv> soft keyboard doesn't disappear after you add a tag
<derekv> grr
<jrwren> derekv: did you find icons?
<jrwren> i used to use tango icons in client software
<derekv> jrwren: i found a couple sources online, I ended up putting a circle with an 'x' i it, no png just a shape
<derekv> really ugly, but i just want functionality atm
<derekv> I namespaced the project as org.bookie.*, trying to decide if I need to change that before release
<derekv> thinking of pushing it out to play so whoever can give me feedback and actually use it
<jrwren> derekv: next time: http://tango.freedesktop.org/
<derekv> shit, I need art
<derekv> I need icons
<derekv> ok time to do somthing else for a minute
<derekv> oh wow... fall noises
<derekv> it sounds like fall
<derekv> leaves moving accross pavement in wind
<derekv> bookie art
<derekv> JVM must die
<derekv> that and like, the patent system.  and child abuse.
<snap-l> ANything else? :)
<jrwren> republicans and democrats
<rick_h_droid> ugh we all having fun?
<brousch> sure
<derekv> wazzap
<jjesse> hello :)
<snap-l> Howdy.
<jrwren> hi
<snap-l> Nice to see Tor books don't have DRM
<jrwren> they changed it a while back, remember?
<snap-l> yeah, I remember, but I'm actually seeing hte fruits of their efforts
<snap-l> which means I'm more likely to buy their books
<snap-l> This is my RickRoll: http://viralconspiracyrecords.bandcamp.com/track/dyn-blasted
<snap-l> I swear, I need to block this label
<snap-l> http://bradcolbow.com/archive/view/fwp_hps_design_process/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-23
<rick_h_> jrwren: man, that's said.
<rick_h_> sad that is
<rick_h_> another sad thing is I can't seem to get the tv here to work for watching my Bears game :(
<jrwren> the tree is sad?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, that it's just cut. Longer it sits the worse things get. If it was a decently clear 50yr black walnut should have had a portable sawmill out
<rick_h_> the idea it'll be sawdust (which can't be used as much because walnut will kill things off) is sad
<rick_h_> woot, got the over the air antenna working for the game
<jrwren> rick_h_: it sounded like there was some blocks which could have been saved.
<jrwren> i think i'll drive by on my way to work tmorrow
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I bet there would be some good turning blanks and such
<derev> cmaloney: i think the way its done is that you get a mini-pci-e card from intel... they are sold in kits with the pci-e adapter and antennas for like $30 or $40 on amazon iirc... i'd also need a riser for $12 or so.  need to check on compatability
<derev> https://github.com/DerekV/BookieClient
<derev> there's this cool library for declaritively defining a rest interface.  for java, works in android.
<derev> so i figured
<cmaloney> Good morning, btw.
<greg-g> scrum. discuss.
<cmaloney> I hate it when I get scrums on my table.
<brousch> I forget. Is scrum the residue left in your underwear after eating Taco Bell, or the stuff stuck to your shoe after visiting a dog park?
<greg-g> a bunch of teams at WMF at going fullbore SCRUM/Agile
<cmaloney> Honestly I think the biggest problem with scrums is unless you get someone to have complete buy-in and a willingness to train the team for months at a time, you'll get some frankenstein methodology that you'll deride as aginle
<cmaloney> (and scrum(
<cmaloney> this is true of most methodologies, though
<greg-g> right
<brousch> ooh ooh mitsuhiko and jcastro fight fight!
<cmaloney> Anywhere in particular?
<brousch> twitters
<cmaloney> That's not a fight
<brousch> A wrestle?
<cmaloney> I think humanity and i need some time apart. laterness.
<brousch> But this isn't humanity, it's The Internet
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-24
<derev> scrum is bullshit, Agile is bullshit.  I'm so sick of it by now.
<derev> its a truckload of hypocracy i'm sorry to say
<derev> cargo cult
<cmaloney> I dunno, I think Agile is a good philosophy
<cmaloney> marred by many folks implementing bits and pieces poorly
<cmaloney> Much like GTD
<rick_h_> evening
<derev> rick_h_: https://github.com/DerekV/BookieClient
<derev> I'm rewriting the backend using Retrofit.
<derev> as a library
<cmaloney> We're out here with my laptop and a rs232 cable moving the telescope using Stellarium
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> derev: cool, will peek at that
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Welcome, daemoneye
<cmaloney> !
<daemoneye> thanks cmaloney
<rick_h_> party?
<cmaloney> daemoneye and I were talking about LUGs / Locos, and come to find out he's in MI
<cmaloney> In the Washtenaw area
<cmaloney> Now we need to get you using Bookie and listening to Open Metalcast and we're good. :)
<cmaloney> https://bmark.us
<cmaloney> (That's rick_h_'s project that he's been working on)
<cmaloney> It's a really nice Bookmarking site
<daemoneye> cool.  I'll have to check it out.
<rick_h_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/9917140306/sizes/h/in/photostream/ in the woods baby!
<brousch> Son of a ... why did I not find either of these when I was looking for a pure Python make replacement? http://thechangelog.com/pynt-versus-invoke/
<brousch> invoke looks nice
<greg-g> rick_h_: wait, that campground has satelites at every spot?
<jcastro> howhttp://www.woot.com/offers/das-professional-mechanical-keyboard
<jcastro> rick_h_: ^^^
<brousch> bah, no windows support in invoke
<rick_h_> das can die :P
<rick_h_> greg-g: heh, yea lots of long term people here
<rick_h_> next to us they've got a big screen TV outside under a tent covered awning and a giant sat. dish
<greg-g> rick_h_: :) went to a campground like that in the sierras this spring, was kind of cool, really
<rick_h_> yea, nice because people live here so they're kind of settled, quiet, take care of the place
<rick_h_> really nice in the VA mountains here. Perfect weather.
<greg-g> oh, virginia, cool
<rick_h_> almost prefer to just stay here and relax vs go on to MD tomorrow
<rick_h_> derev: typo! check out stored in the Bookmark file. Very cool to get another API implementation though.
<daemoneye> hmmm... This is going to be fun... I'll be finishing up a ham radio net as the next scheduled irc meeting on Oct. 6th.  yay for cell network cards.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-25
<rick_h_> evening
<derev> rick_h_: this library is nice and should make the code inside the android client simpler
<derev> the retrofit library
<derev> my nick has a typo
<derev> thats meta
<rick_h_> hah
<gamerchick02> hi rick_h_
<rick_h_> derekv: so you saw the field typo then?
 * rick_h_ has been in/out so not sure if you saw it or not. If so, ignore me
<rick_h_> howdy gamerchick02
<gamerchick02> how's it going? i'm glad the room picks up after 8.
<gamerchick02> i feel bad if i don't check in
<rick_h_> all good, relaxing time here. Really not spent much time behind a computer so far
<gamerchick02> (because i miss everyone)
<rick_h_> so trying to get some idea of news/twitter in an hour hit
<gamerchick02> all day in front of codep (which behaved itself today, i'm surprised)
<gamerchick02> yay for nothing on TV i guess?
<derekv> rick_h_: yea I saw it
<derekv> interesting that there's no error but i suppose it just becomes null
<gamerchick02> book time. see everyone tomorrow. :)
<rick_h_> derekv: cool
<rick_h_> derekv: yea, I want to keep going on the cli sometime and try to get a python api library going. I think it'll be cool to have full on libraries and see about expanding the usefullness of things.
<rick_h_> I like the idea of stealing the 'notes' idea from pinboard. A couple of times I've wanted to write up some note and keep it in bookie, indexed, with tags
<rick_h_> could almost see doing something like a new todo system for cmaloney with tags/notes :P
<derekv> i have this idea in the back of my mind about wiring up agents that watch my bookmarks on various services and copy stuff around
<derekv> like if i favorite something on pocket, it should make sure i have a bookmark in mozilla, chrome, bookie... and set a tag or somesuch
<rick_h_> derekv: yea, delicious and pinboard will watch a twitter account for urls and auto bookmark. Thought about that.
<rick_h_> oh well, hours in a day and all that. I'm out all. Hopefully check in from MD tomorrow night.
<cmaloney> Howdy
<derekv> http://fabiensanglard.net/rayTracing_back_of_business_card/index.php
<derekv> https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/kspstore/index.php?p=22
<derekv> supports debian
<derekv> (based distros)
<cmaloney> Yeah, JODee was playing it
<cmaloney> it's pretty involved
<derekv> i don't have time for it.
<cmaloney> Try the demo at least
<derekv> just think if i did have time for it, it'd easily use up weekends if not weeks
<cmaloney> It's pretty full featured
<derekv> it already made me stay up too late
<derekv> looking at videos
<derekv> gn___
<brousch> Um, what? "You'll learn to program in a language that' s used in millions of smartphones, tablets, and PCs. You'll code along with the book, writing programs to solve real-world problems as you learn the fundamentals of programming using Python 3.Â "
<waf> 0 smartphones + 0 tablets + 1million PCs
<waf> roughly speaking
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Now now, I downloaded brousch's "Say Anything" program on my phone
<cmaloney> that means there's Python on at least two phones. :)
<brousch> hah
<cmaloney> Three if I convince JoDee to download it on her phone
<brousch> I need to get my Clever Drip Timer up there
<waf> haha, i gave myself some wiggle room via "roughly speaking" because I know brousch is all about kivy/android/python :)
<cmaloney> Also Galco n started life as a Pygame project, so I'm not sure if the Android / iPhone versions are still Python based
<cmaloney> s/so/but/
<cmaloney> SO, the answer is somewhere between 2 and millions. :)
<cmaloney> Neither of which I think is entirely accurate
<brousch> Misleading
<brousch> Also, it specifically says PYthon3
<brousch> So my apps don't even count
<cmaloney> Huh? That's a huge stretch then
<brousch> I reported it to O'Reilly problems
<cmaloney> Thank you, Citizen
<brousch> I almost fainted yesterday. We were evaluating a replacement for a big part of our business software (estimating, purchasing, stock, shipping) and they said they support Linux servers and OpenOffice/LibreOffice
<cmaloney> Really?
<cmaloney> That's cool
<cmaloney> https://github.com/tybenz/vimdeck
<brousch> Ah, so turns out they only support linux server for part of the server, and no openoffice
<brousch> Salesman actually talked to technicians
<brousch> And "support" is not the best term since they've never done it on a Linux server, but theoretically it is possible
<brousch> Quite frankly the fact that the techs are even willing to think about it is more than I usually get
<cmaloney> Yeah, I think the Linux stuff is getting some more play
<cmaloney> Lilely because it costs less on EC2 to run a Linux instance
<cmaloney> vs. a Windows instance
<brousch> The companies producing this software should really be thinking about moving to SaaS
<cmaloney> (not that I have any hard data either way)
<cmaloney> brousch: They likely are.
<brousch> Often businesses comprable to where I work have no full-time IT guy, so they are caring for their own critical servers
<cmaloney> I'd be surprised if companies aren't seriously considering SaaS
<brousch> Most of the ones I talk to are Windows-locked
<brousch> And Office-locked
<cmaloney> and honestly Microsoft did the Linux community the best service by releasing Windows 8.
<cmaloney> It was just different enough to make people change-resistant
<brousch> I'm going to end up with a Windows server here in the next year
<cmaloney> brousch: That sucks
<brousch> Our current software needs a Windows server for the next version, and all the others I talk to do also
<cmaloney> Why?
<cmaloney> Active Directory?
<brousch> dotnet
<brousch> SQL Server
<cmaloney> Wouldn't Mono handle the dotnet piece?
<brousch> You can point and click your way across programming!
<cmaloney> Also what were they using before?
<brousch> Foxpro
<brousch> DB files shared over samba
<brousch> So they're moving to "real" database
<cmaloney> Ah, OK
<cmaloney> Well, can't fault them for that, though I question their technology direction
<cmaloney> but whatever
<brousch> exactly
<waf> oh hey, it's CHC early edition tonight
<rick_h_> waf: oh, cool. Sorry, just got to campgroud at MD so been afk today
<waf> i'm not blaming you :)
<brousch> So o'reilly is claiming the crippled Python script creator on iOS is what they referred to as running Python 3 on smartphones and tablets https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors#Mobile_Device_Editors
<jcastro> cmaloney: ping
<cmaloney> jcastro: Pong
<jrwren> i hate python on ios, its terrible.
<jrwren> would be nice to get a good version of it.
<rick_h_> evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-26
<daemoneye> evening folks
<gamerchick02> howdy rick_h_
<cmaloney> HOwdy
<rick_h_> party party
<gamerchick02> i have popcorn. is it an irc party yet?
<gamerchick02> :-P
<rick_h_> heh, wine and toblerone here
<gamerchick02> sounds good.
<brousch> rick_h_: You ever try Chocovino?
<cmaloney> brousch: Haven't tried it, but it sounds disgusting. :)
<brousch> It's good. Chocolate red wine
<cmaloney> wGood morning
<jrwren> morning
<brousch> yes
<cmaloney> That's not a team player attitude. :)
<jrwren> anyone know what software was used to make this pretty sketch ? http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NATQ6TgvatM/UCUxI5Ohs1I/AAAAAAAAAMs/6pN_73ljJSs/s1600/Scheduler.png
<brousch> Kind of reminds me of Balsamiq
<jrwren> ty
<brousch> Nope, it is wavier than balsamiq
<jrwren> smoser: cc_bootcmd tells me CalledProcessError: Command '['/bin/sh']' returned non-zero exit status 2  any recommendation on getting more output about the error?
<smoser> jrwren, it should be on the console i think
<smoser> ie, the 'nova console-get'
<smoser> or whatever that is.
<jrwren> ok
<jrwren> ty
<smoser> i dont think it redidrects that output anywhere.
<jrwren> definitely not to the output module
<smoser> (you could do it yourself. redirect to a file)
<smoser> i *think* if you did:
<jrwren> i think it is failing to resolv something after I just added my dns server... but I can't recreate that to confirm.
<smoser>  output: {all: '| tee -a /var/log/cloud-init-output.log'}
<smoser> if you did that i think bootcmd output would go there too
<jrwren> it does not seem to.
<jrwren> i have that.
<jrwren> i'm not teeing with -a, maybe runcmd is overwriting.
<smoser> hm. that might be a bug.
<smoser> it does write
<smoser> overwrite
<smoser> it does the command you tell it to, and they'ire different processes.
<smoser> so it would truncate
<jrwren> now I realize taht :)
<smoser> if you were actually interested in getting just "this boot output"
<smoser> then you could just also 'tee -a /run/this-cloud-init-stuff.log'
<jrwren> MUCH better with the -a
<jrwren> i always wondered why not everything was in there :)
<jrwren> ty smoser
<jrwren> if I can think of any bug, its that the examples just use tee and not tee -a. I'm pretty sure I copied from examples.
<cmaloney> "Kindle Fire HDX also introduces the revolutionary new "Mayday" button. With a single tap, an Amazon expert will appear on your Fire HDX and can co-pilot you through any feature by drawing on your screen, walking you through how to do something yourself, or doing it for youâwhatever works best. Mayday is available 24x7, 365 days a year, and it's free."
<cmaloney> This Amazon expert sounds like an asshole
<cmaloney> Just shows up, scribbles on your screen, and finally gives up and just does whatever you wanted to do in the first place.
<cmaloney> I picture it like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoSiKpqvD9Q
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<trevlar> jrwren: http://yuml.me/diagram/scruffy/class/samples
<trevlar> is close to that anyway
<jrwren> cool, thanks trevlar
<rick_h_> brousch: never heard of it
<cmaloney> rick_h_: How goes?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: ok, I'm completely beat
<rick_h_> didn't wear my fitbit today, but if we didn't do double digit miles I'll eat my hat
<rick_h_> but it's a REALY nice zoo
<rick_h_> have some 200 pics to push up
<rick_h_> and that's just the ones I took from my phone
<rick_h_> tomorrow the trek home begins
<tony-smlr> SMLR are live now: http://www.youtube.com/embed/rNvxdKV3L0w
<tony-smlr> SMLR is Chatting on #smlr
<cmaloney> Nice
<cmaloney> tony-smlr: I think you're pushing the definitiion of Saturday. :)
<cmaloney> It's not even Friday. :)
<greg-g> it's saturday in....
<cmaloney> my mind
<tony-smlr> yea
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-27
<cmaloney> Why didn't anyone tell me about Turses before?
<cmaloney> (Actually, I think I knew about it, but it got a lot nicer since then)
<mathomastech> Sad day. Just fund out the LUG group where I am moving is no longer active. Nearest one is downtown Minneapolis.
<brousch> Not sad. Revive it!
<brousch> Reviving our local LUG eventually led to us starting a new makerspace
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's an opportunity calling
<cmaloney> BTW: Looking to reschedule the monthly meeting one week earlier as I'll be AFK 10/6
<cmaloney> New meeting time is 9/29
<greg-g> mathomastech: where are you moving to?
<DrDaemonEye> cmaloney: same time?
<cmaloney> Same time
<cmaloney> Just different date
<DrDaemonEye> cool.  I'll be here... probably finishing up a ham radio net
<greg-g> Carrie's last phone died from bubble solution. There's a cheap waterproof (to 3 feet) phone from Ting. Couldn't convince her to get it since it was only 3g
<mathomastech1> greg-g  Northfield, MN
<mathomastech1> brousch: Reviving it is something I am considering. Not sure how much luck I will have. Don't know many locals yet to get involved with it or to speak. But with 2 colleges in town, I bet I can get the word out to students.
<greg-g> oh, he's gone
<greg-g> yeah, Northfield is a bit away from MPLS
<greg-g> mathomastech: ah yeah, Northfield, confusingly south of MPLS ;)
 * greg-g used to live in MPLS for... 6 years?
<greg-g> I still have my 612 area code phone number ;)
<greg-g> s/;)/:)/ #no wink required
<mathomastech> greg-g: Heh, yea. But it is North of a field.
<mathomastech> Gah!  I have my IRC running on my work computer since it's up 24/7, except for the last 2 days the external internet has been on the frits (hence all the disconnects and reconnects) Finally got it running on my home computer. That should spam you all a lot less now.
<mathomastech> So, any suggestions on how to revive a local LUG? I bet I can get a lot of students interested, there are 2 colleges in town.
<greg-g> mathomastech: let's see, how did I do this Michigan LoCo thing?
<greg-g> step 1) ignore all past attempts
<greg-g> step 2) get jcastro to round up the good people
<greg-g> step 3) beer
<greg-g> that's pretty much what I did, and it seemed to have some lasting effect, not sure on quality ;)
<mathomastech> Awesome!
<mathomastech> j-castro: Care for a road trip out to Minnesota?:
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-28
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> hello from the pslace lot
<cmaloney> Wow, Vapor Trails Remixed sounds amazing
<rick_h_> afternoon
<jjesse> afternoon rick_h_
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-29
<snap-l> good morning
<snap-l> reminder: meeting tonight
<derekv> morn
<jrwren> i am going to jinx the lions now. thank me later rick_h_.
<jrwren> Man, I haven't seen a Lions Bears game like this... ever.
<snap-l> reminder: meeting tonight
<snap-l> jrwren: You do realize rick_h_ is rooting for the Bears
<snap-l> so the only way you could jinx the game would be for both teams to lose
<jrwren> i know.
<jrwren> that cursed rick_h_ :)
<snap-l> Reminder: http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/520/detail/
<snap-l> ;)
<jrwren> man, 13.10 is creeping up.
<jrwren> i usually have tried a beta by now.
<brousch> 12.04 is all you need
<gamerchick02> i've not done the beta thing in awhile. though i will say that the xorg-edgers PPA is keeping my video card ticking after the most recent kernel update.
<jrwren> 12.04 is pretty impressive.
<jrwren> could go for newer uwsgi packages in main
<jrwren> and newer postgresql too :)
<snap-l> There's a postgresql maintained repo of packages for ubuntu
<brousch> jrwren: You don't pip install uwsgi?
<jrwren> nope.
<jrwren> using uwsgi 1.0.x in production!!! zomg!
<jrwren> i don't pip install anything if I can help it.
<jrwren> i'm starting from cloud-img and so if I were to pip install uwsgi, that means I'd have to apt install build-essentials.
<jrwren> not having build tools on my server means it comes up faster.
<brousch> servers boot in like 5s now
<jrwren> i don't boot servers.
<jrwren> i deploy images.
<jrwren> i never "shutdown". I only terminate or delete.
<jrwren> a boot is always a first boot from a cloud-img
<brousch> You're so heartless. give the little servers a second chance!
<jrwren> its just a redefinition of what it means to be a server.
<jrwren> chaos monkey might come along and stab it in the brains at any time.
 * rick_h_ is sad today after that embarassing football game :/
<brousch7> Which team?
<rick_h_> bears got stomped on by the lions. Cutler was a pita today
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-22
<cmaloney> morning
<wolfger> morning
<cmaloney>  RT @laserllama: New idea: kernel extension that makes it impossible to "curl http://example.com/foo.sh | bash"
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/E3erYM - Example Domain
<mrgoodca1> while i understand the reasoning behind hating that pattern, how many people are really going to read an install script before they run it anyways?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: I think the idea is to force people writing software to have to look beyond the "just curl/shell it" as an acceptable pattern for install
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: so pushing the work back on the dev vs the user
<greg-g> just like apt-get won't install a .deb if there are errors, make the people packaging software Do It Right(TM)
<jrwren_> i can just as eaily make an evil deb that does bad things when you install it.
<jrwren_> ok, maybe not JUST as easily, but without much more effort.
<rick_h_> true, we're not saying anything here is protection against bad things
<rick_h_> however, if you have a deb you had to get it from somewhere, by default that's a signed place.
<jrwren_> I actually do skim the scripts before I run a curl | bash
<jrwren_> signed, by me.
<greg-g> jrwren_: and that would probably not make it through a reasonable review (by eg Debian)
<jrwren_> I can make my own PPA, all the pkgs signed by me and yet when you install that deb the postinst rm -rf /
<jrwren_> its not hard to be malicious.
<jrwren_> greg-g: add-apt-repository ?
<greg-g> of course, but when we work together and review each other, things get better :)
<rick_h_> well that's the nice thing about launchpad ppas, at the very least they're built on machines isolated and means the code is in LP and more
<jrwren_> greg-g: it won't make it into debian or universe, but EASILY into an alt repo.
<greg-g> jrwren_: of course, there's ways, I didn't say that debs are fool proof
<cmaloney> Also: I can tell when a .deb package was compromised and generally by who
<greg-g> jrwren_: you're fighting your own strawman
<cmaloney> a shell script is easier to spoof
<jrwren_> huh?
<jrwren_> strawman?
<rick_h_> can we just agree that curl | sudo bash - is ungood and kill it?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ++
<greg-g> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
<rick_h_> without debating on the flaws of other systems?
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/HJAeOd - Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<jrwren_> my point is it is the same ungood as trusting a PPA
<jrwren_> and we trust PPAs all the time.
<greg-g> you might, I don't :)
<greg-g> but, I did, and only when I trusted the person :)
<jrwren_> greg-g: I did not mean to misrepresent anyones point.
<jrwren_> greg-g: rather, I mean to be saying, YES, AND it is not just curl | bash which is bad, but all these other things too
<cmaloney> I just find the whole curl | bash approach to be an anti-pattern
<greg-g> you took "Just like apt-get fails on error" == "debs are the epitomy of safe" which wasn't what I was saying
<greg-g> anyyyyywho
<cmaloney> one that has scarily been adopted by many folks
<cmaloney> notably Rubyists.
<greg-g> yeah, gems and even pypi are scary to Opsen
<jrwren_> greg-g: Say what you mean :p
<greg-g> jrwren_: I did :)
<jrwren_> greg-g: ok, then what you said is wrong.
<cmaloney> It's teh same reason we don't automatically open URLs posted in channel in our web browsers.
 * greg-g goes to potty before 3.5 hours of meetings
<greg-g> whatever dude
<greg-g> I still think you're missing my point and not admitting it
<jrwren_> cmaloney: what is that web chat thing that does that for you? 37signals.
<jrwren_> greg-g: NO, I REALLY did not understand that you meant "apt-get with only trusted repos"
<greg-g> you're still just taking it to an extreme which wasn't intended, just as any statement, when taken to an extreme, is wrong.
 * greg-g goes
<jrwren_> greg-g: no, i REALLY did not read into your intent. I'm sorry that I did not.
<jrwren_> I am slow and stupid. I'm sorry for that.
<cmaloney> Now you've gone and pissed off greg-g. :)
<cmaloney> I hope you're happy. :)
<cmaloney> And I haven't used the web chat for 37 signals so if they automatically open any URL that's sent to them then I'd call that a vector. :)
<wolfger> I believe this is appropriate to your discussion: http://abstrusegoose.com/479
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ITNpc - Abstruse Goose | The Beneficence of Others
<cmaloney> wolfger: I take every breath with the knowledge that it is because someone has not strangled me yet. :)
<greg-g> I'm no longer pissed off :)
 * greg-g drinks more coffee
<greg-g> It's not even 9am yet :)
<jrwren_> i just feel bad for being so dumb, but i'm not dumb enough to not feel bad about it.
<greg-g> jrwren_: sorry man, I should have responded better anyways
<jrwren_> greg-g: No sorry needed. Hope your coffee is delicious.
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - New Millennium Cyanide Christ by Meshuggah on Chaosphere
<cmaloney> Wonder if someone has done a study on programming, odd time signatures, and code quality.
<wolfger> Hmm. Just had a program check for installed tools, and "umph" wasn't installed. It's also not in the repository. Anybody hear of this before? It seems to be only packaged for Fedora.
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - En MÃ¤ktig HÃ¤r by Finntroll on Ur Jordens Djup
<cmaloney> umph?
<cmaloney> https://code.google.com/p/umph/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/YeklJH - umph - Command line tool for parsing YouTube feeds - Google Project Hosting
<cmaloney> Looks like it hasn't been updated in a while
<cmaloney> I'd be suspect of it still working
<wolfger> good point
<wolfger> It was being looked for by "NomNom", which I was running just because I have no recollection of what it is. :-p
<cmaloney> If you're looking to download youtube videos I'd highly recommend youtube-dl
<cmaloney> it works and is updated frequently.
<wolfger> I think I installed NomNom as a general streamripper. There are several good YouTube-specific alternatives.
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1vvayRpcEU <- Love this song
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/FJIJtm - Meshuggah - War - YouTube
<wolfger> cmaloney: Hmm. I was expecting music, not sounds of actual combat. Silly me. ;-)
<cmaloney> That is music. :)
<cmaloney> Also fucking hard to play on the drums. I think they used a drum machine for that.
<wolfger> it's hard on the (ear)drums? I agree. :-D
<mrgoodcat> wow i didnt mean to start an argument and walk away
<mrgoodcat> my bad
<jrwren_> mrgoodcat: lol. <3
<jrwren_> mrgoodcat: I brought up a website that you can curl | bash to do it again for you automatically. :)
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> I wrote you an exploit but it was in Javascript.
<cmaloney> so I Web8'ed it.
<cmaloney> (That doesn't even make sense)
<wolfger> LOL
<wolfger> nonsensical, but amusing.
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> party
<mrgoodcat> http://www.wired.com/2014/09/mit-students-face-aggressive-subpoena-demanding-source-code-bitcoin-mining-tool/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/uTUnRe - MIT Students Battle State's Demand for Their Bitcoin Miner's Source Code | WIRED
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-23
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<wolfger> good morning
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Magic by Nhato
<rick_h_> da bears :P
<cmaloney> ?
<rick_h_> sportsball, but feel compelled to mention it
<cmaloney> I because I'm sharing my music? :)
<cmaloney> or something else?
<rick_h_> just because the bears won last night and i didn't get to watch it or anything so reading about it the morning after
<cmaloney> Ah
<cmaloney> Just once I'd love to import a file that someone generated in Excel that doesn't have bullshit in it
<cmaloney> eg: Last name: 2014-Jun-11
<cmaloney> What the fuck.
<brousch_> That could be his name!
<cmaloney> Yeah, just like Bobby Tables.
<mrgoodcat> anybody have experience with both digital ocean and linode?
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: did you grow up in chicago or something?
<brousch_> mrgoodcat: I have used both
<mrgoodcat> which did you prefer?
<brousch_> I use DO now because it's stable and cheap
<mrgoodcat> i got an email from digital ocean that they're dropping support for arch which i use in a couple droplets
<brousch_> Linode is good, just more expensive
<rick_h_> http://blog.dasroot.net/juju-digital-ocean-awesome/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/etfNZ9 - Juju + Digital Ocean = Awesome!
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: lol i read that and tried it and it doesn't work
<mrgoodcat> digital ocean updated their api so authentication is different
<mrgoodcat> juju, basin, and swimmer are all broke right now
<mrgoodcat> another reason i'm not too keen on digital ocean right now. they appear to handle simple things like API updates fairly poorly
<cmaloney> I have experience with Linode
<cmaloney> not with Digital Ocean
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: that blog post was done/came out this week.
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: the apis are different alreadY/
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Vilks, kas ganÄ«ja aitas (The wolf that shepherded sheep) by Deodium
<cmaloney> Gotta love Latvian metal
<cmaloney> pro-tip: logging to console can be slow, especially if it's GNOME Terminal
<cmaloney> Logged a bunch of output that was still scrolling when the application quit ages ago
<aisrael> Huh. I deployed juju to digital ocean a few days ago and it was working
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: apparently. the authentication procedure in the blog is different than the documented api authentication
<mrgoodcat> you can no longer generate api keys like those used
<mrgoodcat> maybe he already had one?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: oic
<cmaloney> Anyone going to 1devday?
<rick_h_> no, and I need to figure out how to unsubscribe
<rick_h_> though I see kevin's doing a react talk there so maybe I should have rethought it
<brousch_> Why unsubscribe?
<brousch_> cmaloney: I considered going, but it's on my son's birthday
 * rick_h_ is sick of the daily 1devday mail, pms, etc
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I only got one email from them.
<cmaloney> though I can see them being a bit of a pest otherwise.
<rick_h_> I got a bunch of emails and then follow ups the next day "do I have the right emails" followed up with PMs on twitter "not sure if you got my emails"
<cmaloney> rick_h_: fsck
<cmaloney> that sucks
<brousch_> huh, I got none of that
<rick_h_> anyway, I'm cranky today, ignore me and my feedback. Anyway, not planning on attending though having kevin + react there is cool
<cmaloney> rick_h_: bummer
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Hope the day goes better for you.
<rick_h_> release week go go go :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/siriusxm-suffers-crushing-loss-high-734981
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/vLNaCK - SiriusXM Suffers Crushing Loss in High-Stakes Courtroom Battle - Hollywood Reporter
<cmaloney> The real issue is buried in the article re: pre-1972 recordings
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-24
<wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> it'll all get better tomorrow...it'll all get better tomorrow
<wolfger> That doesn't sound like a promising mid-week mantra
<brousch_> rick_h_: Why will it get better tomorrow?
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> I think that's release day, no?
<cmaloney> Also: if anyone wants to practice their presenting skills we have a unique opportunity this month t MUG. :)
<brousch_> Oh, right, what day is that?
<brousch_> I'm trying to schedule my RPi/Python talk with the Kalamazoo Linux Users Group and Kzoo Makers too
<rick_h_> yes, release day
<rick_h_> well, it's our release day for our team for work we've been doing since Feb
<rick_h_> Ubuntu release is end of next month
<brousch_> How is this possible? http://www.modulecounts.com/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/bgFoE - Modulecounts
<rick_h_> how is which part possible?
<brousch_> RubyGems and NPM having more modules than pypi
<rick_h_> yes, they reinvent the wheel more than anyone
<rick_h_> at one point when doing nodejs stuff there were more than 5 different postgres modules to use
<rick_h_> all of which had one feature you want while missing one feature from every other lib
<brousch_> So immaturity breeds more modules?
<rick_h_> yes
<rick_h_> and yes
<rick_h_> ime with them and all that
<brousch_> I guess that makes sense
<cmaloney> brousch_: Second Tuesday of the month
<cmaloney> so Oct. 14th
<cmaloney> Free dinner for speakers. :)
<brousch_> Hm, still looks open for me
<cmaloney> brousch_: If you're willing to make the trek we'll talk specifics.
<cmaloney> eg: topic, expenses, etc.
<mrgoodcat> what happened in july?
<cmaloney> At MUG?
<cmaloney> http://www.mug.org/2014/07/july-8th-2014-mug-meeting/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/v71uCi - July 8th, 2014 MUG Meeting | Michigan!/usr/group
<cmaloney> http://www.mug.org/2014/07/video-july-8th-2014-meeting/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/8nxjEI - Video: July 8th 2014 Meeting | Michigan!/usr/group
<brousch_> My only expense is probably $20 in gas
<rick_h_> and the $100 brain tax
<rick_h_> as his agent I'd like to make sure my client is properly compensated for his expense of brain power
<cmaloney> Ah yes of course.
<cmaloney> The brain tax is always the harshest one.
<brousch_> I haven't seen rick_h_ in more than a year. So you will have to guarantee he will be present
<rick_h_> hah, when is this?
<cmaloney> October 14th. I think you're out-and-about
<rick_h_> oh yea, I'll be helping another of my clients across a big pond
<wolfger> Lifestyles of the rich and geek-famous?
<rick_h_> lifestyles of the "boss wants to see you face to face and tell you what's up"
<rick_h_> but it is fun, got my 'christmas' gifts for the new hires in so that's a fun part.
<wolfger> face to face... that's so 20th-century. Who do you work for again? ;-)
<rick_h_> well, it is in little doses. I don't think he could stand to have us in an actual office with him full time :P
<cmaloney> I think it's more for your sanity
<rick_h_> 30-60min boxes of time wheee
<rick_h_> hah, yea.
<cmaloney> You'd have a task list about as long as your collective arms if you spent more than 30 mintues with Mark.
 * rick_h_ checks arms
<cmaloney> https://p.gr-assets.com/540x540/fit/hostedimages/1379790382/535782.jpg
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/cwtWFo - image/jpeg
<rick_h_> heh, not sure if I'm incrementing each day in the job or to the next end of cycle there :)
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: no not at mug. on modulecounts.com there is some interesting activity in july
<jrwren_> haha, just read rick_h_ from 7:30... now I want to sing Annie.
<rick_h_> jrwren_: hah! good call
 * rick_h_ makes a 'happy' playlist
<jrwren_> "The sun'll come out... tomorrow."
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Ah, not sure.
<jrwren_> brousch_: I'm running with the devil.
<jrwren_> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2014/09/23/oracle-and-canonical-collaborate-on-support-for-oracle-linux-on-ubuntu/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/T6UP1A - Oracle and Canonical collaborate on support for Oracle Linux on Ubuntu | Ubuntu Insights
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren_> rick_h_: :)
<brousch_> waaaaat
<brousch_> Sorry, makes sense if I RTFA
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> yea, headlines fml
<cmaloney> Hm, Oracle announces Larry Ellison leaving, next day Oracle and Ubuntu collaborate
<cmaloney> coincidence?
<rick_h_> http://blog.lusis.org/blog/2014/09/23/end-of-linux/ interesting
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/rgrQhB - The End of Linux - blog dot lusis
<rick_h_> and yea, because I'm a systemd monolith hater
<wolfger> jrwren_: Van Halen earworm ftw!
<jrwren_> wolfger: that is for what I was aiming, but my aim was more at cmaloney :)
<wolfger> VH might be too soft for him :-p
<cmaloney> I am impervious to a Van Halen earworm
<rick_h_> "You might as well JUMP!"
<cmaloney> Fuck you.
<rick_h_> I swear they did something else but can't recall
<cmaloney> Panama
<rick_h_> "JUMP IN!"
<cmaloney> Hot for Teacher
<rick_h_> oooh, good one there
<cmaloney> pretty much the entire 1984 album
<rick_h_> lol
<wolfger> 1984 album?  Eh. entire VH and VH2 albums
<wolfger> with the exception of Atomic Punk
<cmaloney> VH is pretty good
<cmaloney> I like OU812, but I think I'm in the minority on that one
<wolfger> I recall that album being alright, though off the top of my head I can't name any song from it
<cmaloney> Mine all Mine
<cmaloney> When It's Love
<cmaloney> Cabo Wabo
<cmaloney> I think those are the biggies
<jrwren_> Ain't talkin bout love is about the only riff that I get stuck.
<jrwren_> and its the guitar, not the lyrics.
<jrwren_> "Might as well jump" and "running with the devil" just makes me think of Nerf Herder
<jrwren_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC3tJ_Nu7GQ  saw 'em back in '96. pretty funny show.  Blink182 was the little known opening band at the time.
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/H2YSGI - Nerf Herder - Van Halen - YouTube
<jrwren_> I had no idea Nerf Herder had a video for this until today.
 * wolfger is now listening to VH and VH2...
<wolfger> rick_h_: interesting blog post. I'm not sure how I feel about this gem: "Linux is becoming the thing that we adopted Linux to get away from."
<wolfger> I suspect the author adopted Linux for different reasons than myself.
<jrwren_> haters gonna hate & there doesn't have to be logic behind the hate.
<jrwren_> kinda like my android hate :)
<jrwren_> that lusis blog post is just nonsense. I don't see a single valid point, its just a lot of "i don't like this" and "this is a problem" with no reasoning as to why.
<brousch_> For you keyboard fetishists http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MJ3M3G0?psc=1
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/8BRREJ - Amazon.com: The Machinist Keyboard: Computers & Accessories
<cmaloney> I'm not nearly cool enough for that keyboard
<wolfger> I'm not nearly rich enough for that keyboard
<cmaloney> Pursuant to our curl | bash discussion: http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2362-1/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/nW5I3y - USN-2362-1: Bash vulnerability | Ubuntu
<cmaloney> makes me want to go back in time and have a successful OSS project that everyone downloads via curl | bash
<wolfger> what is the current state of Nvidia drivers on Linux?
<cmaloney> working with a chance of telling your .icc profile to go fuck itself.
<cmaloney> Not that I'm bitter.
<wolfger> lol
<brousch_> http://se.inf.ethz.ch/people/nanz/research/rosettacode.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/unbkAJ - Rosetta Code Analysis
<brousch_> I guess i know even less about Go than I thought I did
<cmaloney> lang or game?
<brousch_> lang
<mrgoodcat> both
<mrgoodcat> .hn 5
<bookiebot> CVE-2014-6271: Remote code execution through bash | http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q3/649
<mrgoodcat> thought you should all know
<rick_h_> yep, stop using bash, zsh ftw!
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: you doing CHC tonight?
<mrgoodcat> i can't
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: doesn't matter. bash is the default environment for a lot of processes
<mrgoodcat> i'm in class :(
<mrgoodcat> every 2 weeks i have class wednesday
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: I know, just having zsh fun
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> i <3 zsh
<cmaloney> Evening
<mrgoodcat> hi there
<mrgoodcat> how would you all feel about bookiebot posting ubuntu-security-announce to channel?
<cmaloney> I think that might be excessive
<cmaloney> since I already have it in my email
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-25
<cmaloney> Morning
<wolfger> morning
<wolfger> mrgoodcat: how prolific is ubuntu-security-announce?
<wolfger> rick_h_: zsh? :-p psh!
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> psh -aw
<wolfger> Ugh. Speaking of psh made me log in to Perl Monks for the first time in... forever. Couldn't remember my password, and now I remember why I quit going there. They are still e-mailing plain-text passwords when you forget them.
<cmaloney> Yeah that place is like a museum
<wolfger> Such a wonderful site full of wonderful people, and they can't bother to have a modicum of security.
<cmaloney> They do, they just choose to undermine it. :)
<wolfger> also: "psh -aw" would be a better pun if the -a flag was valid. :-p
<cmaloney> Of course it would. :)
<mrgoodcat> wolfger: like 1 or 2 a day
<wolfger> I don't think having a bot toss out 1 or 2 security announcements a day would be a bad thing. Might even occasionally have some value. :-)
<mrgoodcat> can't remember how to get rss from bookie.io
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: docs.bookie.io shows the "welcome to nginx" page
<jrwren_> ps -haw # works!
<mrgoodcat> jrwren_: works for what?
<wolfger> fail
<wolfger> mrgoodcat: he's attempting to resuscitate cmaloney's psh -aw pun
<mrgoodcat> fail what?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Get some coffee. :)
<mrgoodcat> i must need coffee....
<mrgoodcat> i still don't know what the fail was...
<cmaloney> wolfger mentioned psh as an alternative to bash
<cmaloney> I said "psh -aw" (as in pshaw)
<cmaloney> jrwren_ mentioned that ps -haw is valid
<cmaloney> and now we have spent way too long on a silly joke. :)
<mrgoodcat> yea i'm going to get coffee
<wolfger> which I determined to be a fail, because he switched commands :-D
<wolfger> too long, not funny enough, and on top of it all: had to be explained. :-p
<cmaloney> https://bookie.io/craig/redirect/273994ed5e425a
<cmaloney> https://www.jimmyjohns.com/datasecurityincident/ <- geez
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/GMr3E7 - Data Security Incident
<cmaloney> We can't get to chip and pin soon enough
<wolfger> chip and pin?
<cmaloney> yeah, the USA is the only one that uses magnetic stripe credit cards
<cmaloney> which contain all of the information for the card on the card itself
<cmaloney> chip and pin is like two-factor
<cmaloney> (in a sense. Totally over-simplifying it)
<mrgoodcat> yea. would be cool if your pin actually was the decryption key or something
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_and_PIN
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/h7n9X - Chip and PIN - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Paranoico by proyecto hombre
<cmaloney> Black Sabbath's Paranoid, in Spanish
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: If you need some metal language immersion LMK. Lots of CC-licensed metal in Spanish
<wolfger> "Since 2008, VISA has been running pilot projects using the Emue card,[3] where the generated number replaces the code printed on the back of standard cards." Sign me up!
<wolfger> Then about the only thing you have to worry about is actual physical card theft.
<jrwren_> Is the chip in pin and chip a samrt card?
<jrwren_> ya know the smart cards from 15yrs ago? They have super lower power low clock ARM cpus in them!
<brousch_> cmaloney: Looks like they missed my jimmy johns
<mrgoodcat> srsly... internet connected forks? http://www.hapi.com/product/hapifork
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/p8o0Zi - HAPI.com : Enjoy Your Food with HAPIfork by Jacques L&eacute;pine
<mrgoodcat> brousch_: they missed mine too :)
<mrgoodcat> some good bug names recently
<mrgoodcat> not sure if i like "heartbleed" or "shellshock" better
 * jrwren shakes fist at comcast.
<brousch_> Was someone here involved with KLUG?
<cmaloney> The kalamazoo lug?
<cmaloney> Not sure
<mrgoodcat> i used to live in kzoo
<brousch_> Maybe I'm thinking of mrgoodcat
<mrgoodcat> :)
<cmaloney> http://blog.intronis.com/bid/red-hat-declares-client-server-computing-era-over
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/on1lt1 - Red Hat Declares Client-Server Computing Era Over
<cmaloney> I find this a rather dumb statement
<rick_h_> my web browser would like to disagree with that headline :P
<cmaloney> "cloud" is still a server.
<jrwren> cmaloney: yup. is n-server. its a very stupid statement. sell your RHAT shares. the CEO is crazy!
<jrwren> also, why did they change from RHAT to RHT???
<rick_h_> "Yo kids, I heard cloud was cool...we can do it!"
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> i think it's also called "reframing the shit that you just finshed paying off so you'll want to spend money with us again"
<cmaloney> That RHEL license? That's the old "client-server" model.
<cmaloney> Here's our new Open-Stack cloud model, running RHEL
<cmaloney> Instead of paying $120,000 a year you only pay us $12,000 a month.
<cmaloney> er, $10,000 a month
<cmaloney> SUCH A BARGAIN!
<jrwren> remember, redhat owns ceph and jboss, so they need to spin themselves as a company that does those things, not just rhel
<greg-g> here's a better headline:
<greg-g> modernfarmer.com/2014/09/drinking-excessive-amounts-beer-will-make-kids-smarter-scientists-come-close-saying/
<greg-g> http://modernfarmer.com/2014/09/drinking-excessive-amounts-beer-will-make-kids-smarter-scientists-come-close-saying/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/0tE2v0 - 403 Forbidden
<greg-g> eh?
<jrwren> WHAT?!?!
<cmaloney> I'm gonna driunk me some IQ points tonight!
<cmaloney> or is that IQ PINTS!
<cmaloney> YEEEEAAAAAHHHHh!
<jrwren> hahahahah
<wolfger> Hey, it worked for me.... (for some value of "excessive")
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: i lied
<mrgoodcat> my lit class is pre-civil war, not pre-colonial
<rick_h_> oh, well that's a bit better
<rick_h_> I was wondering how my literature there was pre-colonizatoin
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> not much
<mrgoodcat> lots of art tho
<rick_h_>  /my/much
<rick_h_> yea, true enough
<mrgoodcat> a lot of the stories depicted are pre-colonial
<cmaloney> That's only about 100 years of lit
<jrwren> pre-civil war US lit? there can't be that much of it?
<jrwren> or wait... Samuel Clemens is in that time period eh?
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> hence his satire on slavery
<jrwren> yeah, duh, wtf was I thinking. :)
<cmaloney> jrwren: Apparently not enough to keep from snubbing one of the US literary greats. :)
<jrwren> He was even on ST:TNG!!!
<cmaloney> many times
<jrwren> heheheh
 * greg-g grew up in Hannibal, MO
<greg-g> over fourth of july weekend is "National Tom Sawyer Days" with fence painting, frog jumping, etc. Including a contest to crown the official Tom and Becky (7th graders) who become our town's ambassadors. The ones from my grade went to Japan for a week.
<cmaloney> Nice
<greg-g> the funny thing is, Samuel himself thought Huck Finn was a better book than Tom Sawyer
<greg-g> (I agree, we had to read them both in middle school)
<cmaloney> It was a more complicated story
<cmaloney> similar to The Hobbit / Lord of the Rings
 * greg-g nods
<jrwren> i had to read them. I don't remember much about them.
<jrwren> Huck was the 2nd one right? where Tom isn't around much and Huck runs away?
<jrwren> I remember that one more.
<jrwren> I couldn't tell you much of anything about Tom Sawyer
<greg-g> yep
<jrwren> something about getting kids to whitewash fences for free by convincing them its fun and collecting payment from the fence owner?
<greg-g> being told to white wash your fence, but convincing friends that it's way fun and getting them to pay YOU to have the priviledge
<jrwren> ha!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-26
<rick_h_> FINALLY! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gTdbGJeoCU&list=UUJ65UG_WgFa_O_odbiBWZoA for the cool openstack version
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/3N8BQc - Juju machine view - Rick Harding - 24 September 2014 - YouTube
<rick_h_> and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRd_ToOy87o&list=UUJ65UG_WgFa_O_odbiBWZoA for the more 'but I'm not looking to run my own cloud wtf do I care?' version
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/sno4hE - Juju machine view - Matthew Scott - 24 September 2014 - YouTube
<rick_h_> and pow! https://insights.ubuntu.com/2014/09/26/juju-machine-view-more-control-at-your-fingertips/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/D1nH4L - Juju Machine View: more control at your fingertips | Ubuntu Insights
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Confgratulations!
<cmaloney> rehi
<rick_h_> rehi?
<rick_h_> hifi?
<cmaloney> Hi. ReHi. :)
<jrwren> high fidelity?
<jrwren> stereo fidelics?
<mrgoodcat> remember to patch your bash
<mrgoodcat> this mornings patch actually works
<mrgoodcat> 4.3-7ubuntu1.3 is the good version
<cmaloney> Oh lovely.
<rick_h_> wheeee
<rick_h_> and if you use xen...I'd watch out for that stuff
<rick_h_> and if you shopped at jimmy johns, order new CC
<rick_h_> and if... ah just go be a lumberjack and live in the woods
<cmaloney> rick_h_: But then you'll be labeled as anti-social and have drones fly by your house.
<cmaloney> Can't win. :)
<rick_h_> doh
<cmaloney> It's a great day to be paranoid
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> if you're the type to think everyone is out to get you...it's not the best time to be alive
<cmaloney> No, but maybe it'll get the conspiracy folks something to really be afraid of.
<cmaloney> Screw the fake shit. :)
<jrwren> yar, apt-get upgrade finally fixed my bash. I 'sploited my apache cgi yesterday :)
<cmaloney> nice.
<jrwren> and today that same sploit doesn't work. where is the fun in that? :)
<cmaloney> Apparently the bonehead that is ordering crap online is using my gmail address again.
<cmaloney> One email had the password for his account in there.
<brousch_> Free stuff!
<cmaloney> Yeah, no
<cmaloney> don't care for the sort of crap he's buying
<cmaloney> eg: bowl screens
<cmaloney> So I sent them over to the narcotics division of his state police.
<cmaloney> wand now I'm imagining things going horribly wrong. :(
<brousch_> You have his password. Now use it!
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'd rather not
<cmaloney> That could get into all sorts of problems as well (computer hacking)
<cmaloney> Man we have a really fucked up legal system.
<cmaloney> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-world-s-first-plastic-video-cup
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/zw1JYN - The World's First Plastic Video Cup | Indiegogo
<cmaloney> This is pretty stupid.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-27
<cmaloney> Wow, Yahoo is killing their Directory service
<cmaloney> http://yahoo.tumblr.com/post/98474044364/progress-report-continued-product-focus
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/wd4Ub8 - Progress Report: Continued Product Focus | Yahoo
<cmaloney> It's like they're doing a product inventory and wondering what that server in the corner is still doing.
<_stink_> hah
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> morning
<gamerchick02> happy saturday afternoon
<cmaloney> Howdy. :)
<rick_h_> wheee
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-28
<tony-smlr> cmaloney: Good Evening
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch_> kate
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Vacuum--Dyson-Vacuum-Suction-Sounds/dp/B004V3PS72
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/7Aiwqf - Amazon.com: Toy Vacuum- Dyson Ball Vacuum With Real Suction and Sounds: Toys & Games
<gamerchick02> seriously? wow
<cmaloney> Yeah, that looks pretty cool. :)
<_stink_> doesn't that make it a real vacuum?
<rick_h_> wooo! almost 2k views
<cmaloney> I just bought another vacuum for the house.
<cmaloney> Hopefully I won't be writing another "bagless vacuums are crap" review.
<rick_h_> do love my dyson ball one
<rick_h_> got a woot special on it and been using it since
<rick_h_> what did you get cmaloney ?
<cmaloney> yeah, but I can't justify a nice laptop price for one. :)
<cmaloney> Hoover Canister vac.
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EJQQP46
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/xzcqik - Amazon.com - Hoover WindTunnel Air Bagless Canister, SH40070 - Canister Vacuums
<cmaloney> Meijer had it on clearance for $110
<rick_h_> oh, a follow-me-vac?
<rick_h_> I've not used one of those in a long time, curious how that works out
<cmaloney> It seems to be nice.
<rick_h_> nice deal beating AMZ by that much
<cmaloney> Got it for the hardwood floors since this house has little to no carpet
<rick_h_> yea, much easier to keep clean
<rick_h_> <3 wood floors
<cmaloney> Not acc. to JoDee. :)
<cmaloney> She hates them
<rick_h_> hah, the only issue is you can see the dirt that is there while carpets hid it all
<cmaloney> Carpet == less tumbleweeds. :)
<cmaloney> Exactly.
<rick_h_> so it was still there, but you never got rid of it
<cmaloney> So hopefully this will keep the peace.
<rick_h_> I'll take floors whose dirt levels I can trust and they pick up a ton easier
<rick_h_> time to bite the roomba bullet :P
<cmaloney> I looked at them but the ones that I saw looked like little swiffers
<cmaloney> and frankly I don't have a problem swiffering the place.
<cmaloney> It's just doing it from time to time. :)
<rick_h_> they keep up with the dust bunnies better
<rick_h_> and every day
<cmaloney> Yeah, I seriously considered getting one
<greg-g> sidenote: sometimes I feel bad for maxing out this little ARM processor NAS (synology) for so long
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/iRobot-Braava-320-Floor-Mopping/dp/B00DCCY2ES/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Nye7Io - Amazon.com - iRobot Braava 320 Floor Mopping Robot - Robotic Intelligent Vacuums
<cmaloney> greg-g: It's not hard to do
<cmaloney> rsync kills any CPU
<rick_h_> greg-g: lol yea poor thing does not like encrypted traffic much does it?
<rick_h_> well that's a mopper, I mean one of these guys http://www.amazon.com/iRobot-Roomba-Vacuum-Cleaning-Allergies/dp/B005GK3IVW/ref=sr_1_1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1411939892&sr=1-1&keywords=770+roomba
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/a7MbEx - Amazon.com - iRobot Roomba 770 Vacuum Cleaning Robot for Pets and Allergies - Robotic Intelligent Vacuums
<greg-g> it's not really that, more the other things :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: hah
<greg-g> cmaloney: the build in photo viewer had a "face recognition" checkbox. I thought "what the hell?" it's been processing my multi-hundred gig photo collection for about a week now :)
<greg-g> built-in*
 * greg-g has a head cold this weekend
<rick_h_> come on, 42 more views to hit 2k!
<rick_h_> greg-g: ouch
<cmaloney> greg-g: Oh man, that's not good.
<greg-g> what's almost to 2k views/
<rick_h_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gTdbGJeoCU&list=UUJ65UG_WgFa_O_odbiBWZoA my new juju gui feature demo video
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/3N8BQc - Juju machine view - Rick Harding - 24 September 2014 - YouTube
<cmaloney> on both the cold and the face recognition
<greg-g> +1
<rick_h_> 7mo of work finally released friday so I'm stat counting the demo video
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> go go go :)
 * cmaloney put it on the watch it later queue.
<rick_h_> it's 8min!
<_stink_> there you got one more
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> I have to do the lawn
<rick_h_> woo!
<rick_h_> psh
<rick_h_> 1,963
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> rick_h_: do you have an organebox at home?!
<rick_h_> greg-g: I did for two days!
<rick_h_> greg-g: was great for the demo and some bug hunting
<rick_h_> greg-g: jcastro is the one with it. He's traveling around showing it off now.
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: so I borrowed it from his house while it was taking a couple of days off
<greg-g> cool, kinda jealous
<rick_h_> it was very very cool to have for a bit
<rick_h_> crazy to just be like "hmm, I want this go" and it would go do it
<rick_h_> and a lot faster than doing the same thing on ec2/etc
<greg-g> yeah, awesome :)
<rick_h_> ok back to cooking up some dinner.
<rick_h_> thanks for the extra views to help stoke my ego :P
<greg-g> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-21
<greg-g> high of 102 in Petaluma today, so we went to the beach (Bodega Bay), just got home, 'twas good
<rick_h_> water makes hot weather suck less for sure
<greg-g> and the constant breeze
<jrwren> good morning
<cmaloney> Good morning and all that
 * DrDaemonEye mumbles something about morning
<mrgoodcat> good morning
<mrgoodcat> not for vw though
<mrgoodcat> 20% stock drop over the weekend
<mrgoodcat> hope nobody here was strongly invested in them
<rick_h_> other than buying one of the effected tdi vehicles?
<mrgoodcat> you might actually get a check in the mail
<cmaloney> I'd love to know who thought that was a good idea at VW
<mrgoodcat> if you own one
<aleph_one> welp, this is either a great or a terrible time to buy a VW
<aleph_one> depending on how their prices adapt
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> well does this mean I have to check my smugness levels about my tdi?
<jrwren> rick_h_: nah, just tel us you are sorry for poluting the air more than the US standard and we will forgive you :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: bah!
<jrwren> rick_h_: you don't even have to be that sorry. you were lied to by VW about it.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, it's supposed to balance out my truck
<rick_h_> but maybe they're closer to equal :P
<jrwren> hahhahaaha
<jrwren> rick_h_: don't let any EU folks give you grief about it. US diesel standards are a bit more strict than everyone else. you don't even have to apologize to them :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: :)
<mrgoodcat> besides, it's still probably a lot better on fuel economy. so you can be smug about that if you want
<jrwren> ^^^
<jrwren> not prius level smug
<mrgoodcat> but possibly ford fiesta smugness
<cmaloney> nobody but nobody was ever smug in a fiesta
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> 36mpg in a fiesta
<mrgoodcat> thats pretty good
<cmaloney> It's a fiesta
<mrgoodcat> in the best configuration of the fiesta that is
<cmaloney> It's a fiesta
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> the fiesta st is pretty fun
<cmaloney> It's a fiesta
<mrgoodcat> i don't care
<mrgoodcat> small cars can be fun too
<mrgoodcat> other than size and a laugable name, what's wrong with a fiesta?
<mrgoodcat> laughable
<cmaloney> It's a fiesta
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> i think mrgoodcat is thinking of modern fiesta. I'm thinking of 80s fiesta.
<mrgoodcat> now you're just being intentionally unhelpful :/
<mrgoodcat> lol i don't know anything about the 80's fiesta, but the new one was super fun to drive on the track at waterford last week
<mrgoodcat> i'm really excited for the focus rs though. it's not as great on fuel economy but 315hp awd focus hell yes
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: That's cool
<mrgoodcat> want one so bad
<mrgoodcat> gotta wait for a year or two though for the used ones to be on the market
<mrgoodcat> might find a used 135i to tide me over until it comes out
<cmaloney> Just wait for the first recalls  to settle in
<cmaloney> Should be a few months
<jrwren> cmaloney: lol
 * cmaloney has a somewhat dim view of the auto industry writ large
<mrgoodcat> yea i think you're probably right in general, but this is supposed to be marketed to enthusiasts
<mrgoodcat> so they're probably not going to cut corners for the sake of affordability and such
<mrgoodcat> it's gonna be a $35k+ focus
<jrwren> I do like ford's perf stuff. Taurus SHO is a beast.
<jrwren> but in general: meh. I'm not a gear head.
<cmaloney> I like cars that are efficient and don't fall apart when you look at them funny.
<mrgoodcat> i dont think this one will fall apart when you look at it funny, but it probably won't be efficient in the sense you're thinking of. it will probably be very efficient at turning gas into power, but probably not very efficient at turning gas into distance
<aleph_one> does anyone here use a YubiKey Neo to hold a GPG key for signing?
<aleph_one> also, pardon me if I'm breaking any channel rules, but I don't think I am
<cmaloney> aleph_one: hello
<greg-g> rules?
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> https://jclement.ca/articles/2015/gpg-smartcard/ ?
<aleph_one> greg-g: my kinda place then ;)
<aleph_one> cmaloney: yeah, basically that setup. I'm mostly curious if anyone using it has found it worth the trouble
<cmaloney> aleph_one: I don't have a yubikey so I haven't tried it
<aleph_one> in my case, I created a 4096-bit key on my desktop, meaning I need to make subkeys for the YubiKey
<aleph_one> well, I'll report back!
<cmaloney> Yeah, it appears the Yubikey only handles 2048
<SneakyPh1l> has anyone here ever used pdsh?
<SneakyPh1l> if so, have you ever run a local script remotely using it?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-22
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> morn
<jrwren> GOOD morning
<_stink_> yo
<aleph_one> hail
<rick_h_> well that's a new one, not many use that form of address for myself, but I always figured it was about time
<_stink_> or maybe it's hailing
<_stink_> from the sky
<cmaloney> Well, we are in the presence of royalty
<cmaloney> All hail rick_h_, master of the ancient juju
<aleph_one> how about ahoy? still weird?
<cmaloney> Only if you're from the 1920s
<aleph_one> I plead the 5th
<wolfger> Ahoy!
<wolfger> Ignore these landlubbers, matey.
<aleph_one> arrrrr, I shall at that!
<cmaloney> I hate it when I create interesting problems
<cmaloney> eg: having lxc containers that were running on a production database and were causing phantom errors in our other systems
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-23
<greg-g> why would you ddos wikipedia?
<jrwren> street cred
<greg-g> the best they can do is short (~3 minute) partial outage
<jrwren> greg-g: how are you mitigating?
<greg-g> not saying yet, this is the third time with the same pattern (ie: same person(s)) in the past week
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> we're still addressing some issues, have already addressed some, etc
<jrwren> if its few enough addresses, BGP blackhole them upstream. :)
<greg-g> I don't know offhand, honestly
 * greg-g isn't doing any of the actual work, of course :)
<greg-g> "management"
<cmaloney> greg-g: Sometimes you can only answer with "people are assholes"
<greg-g> funny, that was basically the response I got in anothr room
<greg-g> "almost any reason is good enough really, when combined with being a huge asshole..."
<jrwren> street cred dude.
<jrwren> proof of botnet capability.
<greg-g> yeah
<jrwren> its like "we want to attack XYZ and will pay you $$$, but first proove you have what it takes"
<greg-g> "buy this botnet that can take down WP!"
<cmaloney> There but by the grace of God to they continue to exist
<jrwren> well, WP is likely thought of as big enough that if you can do that then you can take down some other site.
<cmaloney> s/to/do/
<greg-g> the annoying this is, the attack shows they know a bit about our setup/infra/weak parts of the software
<jrwren> ORL?
<greg-g> nothing that you couldn't figure out quickly
<cmaloney> Moreso than a standard Mediawiki install?
<greg-g> ie: not inside job type stuff (remember, all of our config is public: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/OPUP/ )
<greg-g> nah, things you could figure out with a standard MW install
<cmaloney> That's what I figured
<cmaloney> So basically it's the same sorts of folks who steal library books
<cmaloney> because they can
<cmaloney> never mind the damage they cause
<cmaloney> They're sociopaths
<greg-g> one thing we did (that's public): https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/240385/
<cmaloney> https://blog.getpebble.com/tag/pebble-time-round/
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, saw that...but 2 days battery?
<cmaloney> Yeah, not sure what they're smoking
<rick_h_> my whole reason for thinking of going back to pebble was battery life
<rick_h_> saw the round and went "oh man, round and steel like my moto360 sold! and then saw that
<cmaloney> On the plus side, I think the Time Steel is on sale at Target.
<cmaloney> $99
<rick_h_> time steel?!
<cmaloney> That's like couch-cushion money. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> Er, Time, not Time Steel
<rick_h_> ah right time
<cmaloney> think the Time Stell is still $249ish
 * jrwren steals cmaloney's couch
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea :/
<cmaloney> jrwren: My couch has an ATM in there
<rick_h_> 249 for time steel...with a leather band wtf?
<cmaloney> Yeah
<jrwren> because its $50 cheaper than apple watch :p
<rick_h_> not steel... that's the base sport isn't it?
<cmaloney> ?
<jrwren> oh. $100. I thought apple watch was $299, but its $349
<rick_h_> right
<cmaloney> Orig. Pebble is $74.94
<cmaloney> PTime is 194 on Amazon (think it's discounted at Target)
<cmaloney> PSteel is 119.99
<rick_h_> jrwren: so $549 for stainless case with sport rubber band at the store
<rick_h_> jrwren: 599 for the larger size
<jrwren> rick_h_: 10,000 for EDITION
<cmaloney> Not seeing the PTimeSteel out in the wild
<rick_h_> so the one I'd "want" that's like my moto360 stainless is 42mm stainless steel case with link bracelet...$999
<rick_h_> a.k.a. no f'ing way
<cmaloney> yeah, the iWatch is stupid-price
<cmaloney> $349 for the base model is three and a half couch cushions
<rick_h_> lol, well you do need to host parties
<rick_h_> buy moar couches!
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> that is like 11 bottles of Buffalo Trace
<jrwren> i don't know what dollars are. I have to convert everything to bottles of bourbon or beer
<cmaloney> Shit, I'd rather pop for the Macallan
<cmaloney> $50 online
<cmaloney> and up
<cmaloney> logarithmically up
<cmaloney> https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-23802.aspx
<cmaloney> That's the kind of price that I don't think my couches could ever afford
<cmaloney> when you have to think "Car" or "Scotch" you know you're not the target demographic.
<jrwren> SEE.
<jrwren> evrything is different when you put it in terms of whiskey
<cmaloney> heh
<aleph_one> if we're talking Macallan, The Last Word in Ann Arbor has Macallan 25 at $80/oz
<cmaloney> nice
<jrwren> The Last Word is the best bar in the state. :p
<jrwren> *for mixed drinks*
<aleph_one> from what I hear that's true. if anyone wants to hold an unconventional UG meeting...
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-24
<cmaloney> evening
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> how goes?
<greg-g> yo yo
<brousch> Hm, U-M has 2 Coursera courses: Python and web design. Python course is from Charles Severance
<brousch> https://www.coursera.org/browse/computer-science
<cmaloney> Morning
<brousch> yes
<jrwren> pretty sure you know python better than any course could teach you.
<jrwren> then again, its college, so some of the general compsci might be good.
<jrwren> i don't remember if you were a compsci major, brousch ?
<mrgoodcat> i occasionally run through a course like that just to see. sometimes you learn little things like syntax shortcuts and such
<jrwren> good point.
<jrwren> there are a lot of python syntax shortcuts I never mastered because python2 is still a thing :(
 * jrwren rages against python2
<mrgoodcat> i use py3 when i can
<mrgoodcat> i dislike that python2 is still teh default python in most distros
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: you'll love ubuntu wiley  :)
<brousch> jrwren: I didn't take anything above CS 200 level courses. I have a BS in Anthropology
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: less than 4 weeks away!
<jrwren> brousch: ah, then algorthims stuff in a college course would likely be great.
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: can't wait :)
<brousch> I don't plan on taking the courses, I just find it interesting what U-M is up to these days
<mrgoodcat> although the only ubuntu i use has been lts as of late
<jrwren> brousch: oh, u-m is still all c++ afaik
<mrgoodcat> so i have to wait for 16.04
<jrwren> then again, it has been a few years since I met any students or recent graduates.
<mrgoodcat> i'm a student
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: at umich?
<mrgoodcat> no
<mrgoodcat> but that wasn't what you said
<jrwren> context.
<brousch> I am weak in algorithms and design patterns
<brousch> I thought U-M was moving to Java when I left in 1999
<mrgoodcat> likely they were
<jrwren> brousch: design patterns are just knowing names for things. Its like knowing the names of birds. Its only useful if it is useful.
<mrgoodcat> most schools i know of are java now
<mrgoodcat> although usually there is still some c++ required
<jrwren> brousch: they definitely were not in the early 2000s. They were c++. I know a handful of grads who finished in '05 and they were very good c++ devs.
<jrwren> I was impressed because most kids coming out of college think they can code and think they know c++, but really don't. These kids were the real deal.
<jrwren> Then again, c++ now is quite a bit different than c++ 10 years gao :)
<jrwren> *ago
<cmaloney> I still don't know Design patterns
<cmaloney> at least the name of things
<cmaloney> Every time I start reading about them I get bored and drift off
<jrwren> cmaloney: they are exceptionally dull
<jrwren> and knowing more than a few of them is utterly useless
<jrwren> many of them are language specific.
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Same with knowing bird taxonomy
<jrwren> e.g. Observer Pattern in C# is implemented in the language - its called events.
<jrwren> haha, birds.
<jrwren> i see a black bird, and I say, hi black bird. I see a blue bird, and I say hi blue bird. and so on...
<jrwren> I think knowing antipatterns is more useful than knowing design patterns.
<brousch> EECS 281 (Data structures and Algorithms) kicked my butt twice. I hated memory management (C/C++) and pointers. these are the primary things that kept me from getting to 300 level CS courses
<cmaloney> I get that we need to have lingua franca and what-not, but I'll be damned if I'll pull "Observer Pattern" out of something that's "Event driven"
<cmaloney> memory management is tricky stuff. Even the computer doesn't get it right
<brousch> this is why I use Python now, but I'm not really an awesome programmer
<cmaloney> "Did you free that memory?" "0" "Does that mean yes?" "Banana!"
<jrwren> all the recent c++ trends agree. its considered bad form to use new and delete yourself now.
<jrwren> C++ folks have basically said, memory management is hard.
<cmaloney> "Yo! I heard you liked releasing memory so I free'd the free'd the free'd the free'd the SEGFAULT"
<cmaloney> Hah
<cmaloney> jrwren: How times change
<cmaloney> 1990 / 2000 was all about that destructor
<jrwren> cmaloney: well, its also a different world. 20yrs ago when I started c/c++, most programs weren't long lived. they'd run, do their thing and terminate. Now everythign is a long time running server.
<jrwren> cmaloney: oh, the destructor is still there and important, afaik. you just won't call delete from it :)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Been a while since I looked at C++
<cmaloney> I need to give it a peek again
<cmaloney> see if it makes my stomach churn
<jrwren> cmaloney: just be careful where you look. there is a lot of bad info, bad advice out there.
<cmaloney> I wouldn't look at a book prior to 2010
<jrwren> Bjarn actually said this in his cppcon talk
<cmaloney> and certainly not Bjarne's book
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> EffectiveC++ then?
<cmaloney> possibly
<cmaloney> I think I have that laying around
<cmaloney> Picked up a decent looking C++ Games book
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Through-Programming-Fourth-Edition-ebook/dp/B00LZW07P0
<cmaloney> "4.0 out of 5 starsI'd say taht this is a good, a realy good"
<cmaloney> Can't go wrong with that review
<jrwren> why a game programming book?
<cmaloney> I like games? :)
<cmaloney> Plus it doesn't teach a library, all of the games are text-based
<cmaloney> so you're not fighting with something like Unity3d while learning hte language
<jrwren> ha, timely: https://twitter.com/wc_duck/status/646957178235035649
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> for the record: I'm a total c++ n00b.
<cmaloney> The syntax put me off
<jrwren> really?
<jrwren> well, it is hard to beat python.
<cmaloney> It just felt like it was bastardized C to me
<cmaloney> I find C can be quite beautiful
<cmaloney> C++ felt like a lot of boilerplate
<cmaloney> similar to Java
<jrwren> so, that is kind of what bjarne said in that same keynote.
<jrwren> he said most c++ is bad.
<jrwren> he said clases are overused, there is a reason c++ has functions just like C
<jrwren> he said a lot of c++ devs go out their way to use all htese complex features when simple things would work.
<cmaloney> Did he fall on his sword because that's what it sounds like. ;)
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> I think he more cried, "its not my fault everyone else sucks."
<cmaloney> heh
<mrgoodcat> after lots of work i finally reduced my vimrc to 72 lines (only 27 of which are actually directives) and got rid of all vim plugins
<mrgoodcat> removed all the old crufty crap that i installed, used once, and forgot about
<cmaloney> heh
<mrgoodcat> my vimrc also has a comment for every single directive now
<cmaloney> " This sets the value of a to 42
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> some of them are simple like that
<cmaloney> "This ensures that something down the chain works. Fuck if I know what it actually does
<cmaloney> " This sends my bank information to the IRS, FBI, and NDA
<cmaloney> NSA
<cmaloney> hah, NDA my ass
<mrgoodcat> https://github.com/dyladan/dotfiles/blob/master/vimrc
<jrwren> I should probably do that.
<mrgoodcat> it feels nice
<jrwren> i bet I have 27 color directives commented out, so that I know what color options are available
<mrgoodcat> like replacing all your socks and getting all matching pairs
<mrgoodcat> i think line 17 and 23 are my most used
<cmaloney> You can do that?
<mrgoodcat> imap jk <esc>`^:%s/ \+$//eg<return>`^:w<return>
<mrgoodcat> imap kj <esc>
<mrgoodcat> jk leaves insert mode, removes trailing spaces, and saves
<mrgoodcat> kj just leaves insert mode
<mrgoodcat> screw reaching for esc
<jrwren> i would hit that all teh time navigating up and down lines.
<_stink_> doesn't rick_h_ use jj or something?
<_stink_> for esc
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: not in insert mode you wouldn't
<rick_h_> _stink_: yes, in zsh and in vim
<rick_h_> ftw
<rick_h_> yes in insert mode
<rick_h_> and it's awesome, home row and one char ftw
<jrwren> map esc to ` as god and the terminal on which vi was written intended :)
<jrwren> err, tab.
<rick_h_> heh, except ~ moves on keyboards, especially kenisis/etc
<jrwren> maybe it was tab location is esc?
<rick_h_> esc was where tab or caps lock was on that terminal
<rick_h_> so it was close/on home row
<rick_h_> jj is awesome, there's like 3 words that use that
<rick_h_> and if you do NEED a jj you just type it slowly
<mrgoodcat> jk and kj are the best
<mrgoodcat> and in insert mode i'm not using them to move
<rick_h_> there's a timer on that for 100ms or something
<_stink_> what words use jj?
<mrgoodcat> very few if any
 * cmaloney still needs to get rick_h_ a proper ADM terminal
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: nope, why two fingers? when you can do one?
<jrwren> there is no except. look at the keyboard as it was on a adm-3a, make your KB the same. then vi is usable
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: can hit faster with two
<jrwren> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-3A  the KB used to write vi
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: with proper keys I disagree
<rick_h_> you're not taking your finger off
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-3A
<cmaloney> ;)
<mrgoodcat> roll right for save roll left for not save
<mrgoodcat> can hit the second key while key 1 is still down
<mrgoodcat> hitting them at pretty much the same time
 * jrwren maps tab to esc :)
 * cmaloney looks for the "Here is" key
<rick_h_> jrwren: how do you tab in code then?
<jrwren> rick_h_: i'd never do that. gofmt does it for me :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: ugh
<jrwren> ctrl-i maybe :)
<rick_h_> insanity
<cmaloney> Or you use CTRL-I
<cmaloney> Dammt
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> jrwen is jinxing me
<rick_h_> once you go jj you never go back :P
<jrwren> rick_h_: gofmt is opoiste of insanity. imagine all pep8 violations being automatically resolved on every file save. its glorious
<jrwren> unfortunately, nothing fixes my spelling.  opposite?
<rick_h_> http://www.wordfind.com/contains/jj/
<jrwren> grep jj /usr/share/dict/words
<jrwren> jk is in Dijkstra :)
<jrwren> jj wins.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I hope you never have a Scandanavian employee. :)
<mrgoodcat> http://www.wordfind.com/contains/jk/
<mrgoodcat> 1 word
<mrgoodcat> 3 contain kj
<jrwren> more than 3
<jrwren> well, blackjack, lockjaw, and some propernames.
<mrgoodcat> wordfind didn't find blackjack
<mrgoodcat> interesting
<mrgoodcat> did find inkjet though
 * rick_h_ claims enough old man greybeard cli points to guffaw at alternatives to jj :P
<rick_h_> without any data other than experience
<cmaloney> funnily enough I knew a gent who had an IRC nick with jj in it
 * cmaloney remembers simpler times when sending +++ over IRC would reset some stupider modems
<jrwren> ha, inkjet isn't in dict/words :)
<cmaloney> NOCARRIER
<rick_h_> cmaloney: you'd tab complete that anyway and never type it :P
<rick_h_> boom!
<cmaloney> Well, it also assumes you're using IRC from vim in insert mmode
<cmaloney> so MMMOOOOOOBBB
<mrgoodcat> yea
<cmaloney>  Shigeto - There Is Always Hope (Mux Mool Remix)
<cmaloney> ^ hearing an echoey voice saying "Michigan michigan michigan..."
<cmaloney> Thanks Soma.fm
<cmaloney> also: have a replacement for how I use last.fm
<jrwren> so... we went from no python podcasts, to a new one every month, it seems.
<jrwren> anyone want to start a python podcast?
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I think I've hit mini-rick_h_
<rick_h_> ?
<cmaloney> I have multiple tmux sessions, each full-screen, with multiple panes in each.
<jrwren> but all one tmux server?
<cmaloney> Each is it's own server
<jrwren> ah. bummer. that sounds rough
<cmaloney> Nah, it's quite cool
<cmaloney> No complaints, or I wouldn't do it
<brousch> What the ...  https://blog.adafruit.com/2015/09/23/a-breadboard-for-pebble-smartstrap-lovers-wearablewednesday/
<cmaloney> That is awesome.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-25
<brousch> It makes my smartwatch feel so lame
<brousch> Ooooh, I'm up to 23K on Dragon Go Server. My best rating evar
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeah, I can't play you anymore, both of our ratings will drop. ;)
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OEu9C51K2A <- jrwren Showed up on Reddit
<cmaloney> or rather, j_wren: this showed up on reddit
<jrwren> oh no!
<jrwren> oh yeah, that is the one I was talking about
<jrwren> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-26
<cmaloney> afternoon and all that.
<_stink_> yes.
<dzho> a'ight, who's going to OLF next weekend?
<dzho> cmaloney?
<dzho> greg-g?
<cmaloney> dzho: I have a room reserved but I think we're going to skip this year
<cmaloney> related to J's dad
<dzho> cmaloney: oh, sorry.
<cmaloney> no worries
<cmaloney> Are you going?
<dzho> cmaloney: it's pencilled in, but I am as yet unregistered for either the conf or for rooms.
<dzho> will probably go, then make a stop in pittsburgh on my way back for an IKEA run
<cmaloney> ah, cool
<dzho> adds an hour or so to the drive, but hey, meatballs, you know?
<cmaloney> if you're planning on staying at the Drury I can let you know when I cancel the room
<dzho> cmaloney: sweet, thanks.
<cmaloney> It's a bigger room so you'll want a roommate. ;)
<cmaloney> Just canceled
<cmaloney> dzho: ^
<dzho> oh.
<dzho> damn.  thing is, I'm still up in the air about which nights.
<cmaloney> Call them anyway
<cmaloney> You can change the reservation after the fact
<cmaloney> http://liftdetroit.storenvy.com/collections/43759-designer-vinyl/products/8275353-lepus-pellis-os-omentum-by-nychos
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-26
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> are we having fun yet?
<rick_h_> oh boy
<_stink_> sure
<gamerchick02> how's eveyone's Monday gone? i've been busy but i cooked for myself, so i call that a win. and i'm on track for 4/5 days of taking lunches (i might spring for something on thursday or friday)
<cmaloney> nice
<cmaloney> I got the COBRA paperwork and now I'm looking into other healthcare options
<cmaloney> because I would literally be living to pay insurance
<gamerchick02> ooof.
<gamerchick02> cobra is expensive.
<cmaloney> yep
<cmaloney> Sucks the fun out of being unemployed
<cmaloney> bastards
<gamerchick02> for sure.
<gamerchick02> funemployment.
<gamerchick02> not really. :-P
<gamerchick02> http://hobotopia.com/post/150846605010/laugh-out-loud-cats-2828
<greg-g> cmaloney: I would say vote Bernie, but, ya know ;)
<cmaloney> Yeah yeah.
<cmaloney> Healthcare will kill this country.
<greg-g> slowly but surely
<cmaloney> I don' think slowly is part of the equation anymore.
<greg-g> heh, fair
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-27
<Scary_Guy> unenjoyment
<Scary_Guy> also, crony capitalism will kill this country.  I blame big pharma and the insurance companies
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> morning
<Zimdale> Morning
<greg-g> jorge is now officially a dad
<rick_h_> yea, awesome
<jrwren> yay jorge!
<_stink_> o/
<cmaloney> Yay!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-28
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren> looks interesting: http://beta.repology.org
<jrwren> good morning
<jrwren> no ubuntu there, but hoepfully they will add it. I know there are some universe packages that have been abandoned for years and keep getting carried over. Maybe this will shed some light on their needed maintenance.
<cmaloney> Interesting
<cmaloney> Perhaps they figure Ubuntu / Debian already do something like this
<cmaloney> (albeit, not as nicely surfaced)
<jrwren> debian is on the list.
<jrwren> its still beta.
<cmaloney> Well, then Ubuntu is covered. :-P
<dzho> no CentOS/Fedora/Scientific Linux
<jrwren> no one uses those. :p
<jrwren> it is weird, they chose to ignore the 2 top high used distros.
<dzho> well, ignore or not start with or whatever
<jrwren> true. it does look like you could plug them in. I think they support rpm based distros.
<dzho> this looks like the tricky part https://github.com/AMDmi3/repology#package-matching
<jrwren> indeed. that is some black magic there.
<dzho> the thing that comes to mind for me there is that org-mode is a separate package in Debian, but is included in the emacs packages for Fedora et al
<cmaloney> Is there such a thing as a central RPM repo?
<cmaloney> Seems there's still reasons to use rpmfind
<jrwren> dzho: i think they would be better suited analyzing source packages instead of binary, but maybe both are important.
<dzho> yeah that's where my thoughts turned
<dzho> but you'd have to depend on the upstream package source files being programmatically available
<jrwren> dzho: they are for all the distros we have mentioned.
<dzho> "oh that's easy, you just download the source file for each package for each distro and then ..."
<dzho> then a miracle occurs because that turns into a huge task
<jrwren> dzho: i haven't looked at how this thing actually works. I'm sure you are right.
<dzho> I like to see these sorts of things, though, because it's of a piece, in my mind, with universal builds and reproducible builds and such.
<dzho> making sure you have, as the GPL puts it, complete and corresponding source.
 * dzho now feels compelled to search the phrase "source code ontologies"
<jrwren> appears there is no rpm based distro support. That explains that.
<dzho> ok, I have recovered from my urge to read anything having to do with ontologies
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-29
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<cmaloney> how goes?
<rick_h_> wheee?
<rick_h_> wife is bummed, got her a new mountain bike yesterday and now rain today
<cmaloney> Ah, so you're the culprit. :)
<cmaloney> Current status: https://twitter.com/squeekyhoho/status/781457892838739968 and https://twitter.com/squeekyhoho/status/781458283735363584
<rick_h_> 10k nodes?
<cmaloney> I'm exaggerating. :)
<cmaloney> Just a feeling of being left behind
<cmaloney> (nobody's fault but mine)
<jrwren> ooh! what kind of mountain bike?
<rick_h_> I wanted her to look at a giant tempt
<rick_h_> but she liked the specialized one better with the larger wheels
<rick_h_> I'm looking to try to get a giant fathom here soon, but she got into mountain biking first and I wanted to get her onto a safer bike
<jrwren> ooooh! larger wheels!
<rick_h_> yea, we've had 29'er bikes so far
<rick_h_> so she liked keeping those
<rick_h_> vs the 650b wheels
<jrwren> nice!
<jrwren> what makes for a safer bike?
<rick_h_> so we've both had specialized crosstrails
<rick_h_> so their more street/dirt road bikes
<cmaloney> nice!
<jrwren> did she get a hardrock, or something nicer?
<rick_h_> so the tires are smooth vs off road grip, the new bike has hydraulic disk brakes, and better components overall
<rick_h_> she got a hardtail, coil spring fork nothing too fancy
<jrwren> hydraulic disks are really nice. I remember the one time I rode one with them. it was luxury ;]
<rick_h_> she doesn't notice the differences in things as much unfortunately, so my main goals was wider tires, more grip, and better brakes = safer to run trails on
<jrwren> yup. i get it now.
<jrwren> at first, I couldn't understand what safer would mean, but now that you mention hybrid v. mountain bike, it makes complete sense.
<rick_h_> yea
<cmaloney> Pretty sure my nickname for this unemployment row is "Dobby"
 * rick_h_ is curious how that lines up
<cmaloney> Mentioned to JoDee that I got a ping-back from one of the applications, and she said "that's nice. Make the bed and put up the shower curtain"
<cmaloney> whee
<_stink_> haha
<jrwren> cmaloney: amazon is hiring in detroit, IIRC
<cmaloney> Last few times I've talked to them they wanted us to relocate to the mothership
<cmaloney> which I'm reluctant to do (for now)
<jrwren> oh. bummer.
<greg-g> non-remote friendly tech organizations are so dumb
<greg-g> (in my completely unbiased opinion, of course)
<jrwren> lol
<rick_h_> greg-g: :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: Which is why I applied to a remote-friendly tech organization but I think they filled the position.
<greg-g> :/
<cmaloney> Unfortunately I don't have the security chops for the positions that are available.
<cmaloney> http://stackoverflow.com/jobs/companies/wikimedia-foundation-inc
<greg-g> yeah, those are our main open reqs now
<jrwren> greg-g: what is the difference between those two positions?
<jrwren> greg-g: the app sec one is more js focussed?
<cmaloney> One looks like a liaison role
<cmaloney> where you're doing more with the outside world
<cmaloney> (the application security engineer)
<greg-g> I think so, yeah
<greg-g> I'm listening to soma.fm via a nodejs cli app
 * rick_h_ runs away
<greg-g> yeah, 'twas my first time doing a npm install on this laptop, actually :)
<greg-g> but but.... cli apps!
<cmaloney> Why node of all things?
<Zimdale> why not node!?
<cmaloney> https://gist.github.com/craigmaloney/0260780ec4dec16a32367ce1fdfffc9c
<cmaloney> Heh, that script no longer works because I don't have mpg123 on my machine anymore
<cmaloney> using the Squeezebox
<cmaloney> With Perl, and C (like a gentleman)
<cmaloney> Zimdale: Why not node? I don't trust the ecosystem.
<Zimdale> The ecosystem doens't trust you!
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> cmaloney: heh
<cmaloney> It feels like Node installs 130 packages just to get started
<greg-g> it does...
<cmaloney> it could be that they haven't made a stdlib like Python eventually earned.
<greg-g> https://paste.debian.net/845618/
<cmaloney> But the worst I've seen for Python dependencies tends to be on the tens of packages
<cmaloney> not on the hundreds
<greg-g> 37 for the somafm cli
<cmaloney> Jeez
<greg-g> https://github.com/uschek/somafm
<cmaloney> got@5.6.0 (lowercase-keys@1.0.0, timed-out@2.0.0, is-redirect@1.0.0, ?
<greg-g> no idea
<greg-g> effing node
<cmaloney> Oh, and it pipes through mplayer
<cmaloney> how adorable
<cmaloney> 37 packages to parse somafm and pipe to mplayer.
<cmaloney> It is cool though, I'll grant that
<greg-g> :)
<gamerchick02> you guys are funny. :)
<greg-g> but right :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-30
<jrwren> wife thinks I should coach 4-5th grade first robotics.
<jrwren> i'm like... fuck no.
<jrwren> i hate kids.
<gamerchick02> internet is back up!!
<jrwren> j/k, i dont' hate kids. I'm just not sure I want to do it.
<greg-g> jrwren: as another father, I wouldn't look down on you. It's a special person who can handle medium to large groups of kids. I was a camp counselor before grad school. Eight 12-17 year olds (each week was a different grade, basically) was a lot, even with 1 counselor and 1 assitant counselor.
<jrwren> greg-g: how are you doing out there with the fires?
<cmaloney> jrwren: JoDee does science olympiad. If it's anything like that expect a rag-tag group of somewhat organized volunteers who can't get their shit together.
<jrwren> cmaloney: yes, i saw through a science olympiad thing a while back adn noped out of that too ;]
<jrwren> cmaloney: my impression of tonight is that its JUST liek that.
<greg-g> jrwren: we're ok, mostly. Except: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/09/29/discarded-cigarette-sparked-petaluma-neighborhood-fire/
<greg-g> A helicopter had to come and get water from a near by park to help put it out
<gamerchick02> glad the fire is put out, jwren. why do people discard their cigs ont eh ground? ugh
<gamerchick02> ok i'm going to try to get byrd irc working on the chromebook. for all the great things about the chromebook, irc is not one of them. :-P
<gamerchick02> huh. that worked. nice.
<greg-g>  jrwren: view from my cousin's house in southbay: https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p280x280/14441087_10209147216789540_3147332590860450363_n.jpg?oh=3a425dc0209e40ef02370d472304fb19&oe=5864B9A6
<gamerchick02> greg-g, wow!
<greg-g> gamerchick02: yeah, we're dry here :(
<gamerchick02> i've heard.
<gamerchick02> :( i hope you get some rain soon.
<gamerchick02> it's been raining here... maybe we should try to send the clouds your way.
<greg-g> good luck with that :)
<gamerchick02> lol i know, the winds aren't in our favor
<gamerchick02> there's flooding warnings around here.
<gamerchick02> ok, i'm gonna do some winding down... i've another long day tomorrow (at least i don't have a 7 am conference call...). peace out everyone and i should be around this weekend for bits and bobs. :)
<jrwren> my basement has some water in it... it so wet here.
<cmaloney> Yeah, all of the rivers are flooding
<jrwren> I found out this woman I know likes to do odd jobs for money, including babysitting. I might actually go to S U R V I V E
<jrwren> i just found a 1-word changed wikipedia page that had been tehre for 11months. Easy enough to revert, but weird.
<greg-g> jrwren: linky?
<jrwren> greg-g: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatar said the companies main product is Facebook in section 2.
<jrwren> very weird.
<jrwren> omg, jorge's baby is beautiful.
<cmaloney> Wonder if it has new baby smell
<cmaloney> s/it/he/
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> everytime I type if err!=nil { return err} I die a little inside.
<gamerchick02> why? is there something wrong with your computer?
<rick_h_> jrwren: +100
<jrwren> rick_h_: lol.  See, you know!
<cmaloney> javascript?
<jrwren> golang
<cmaloney> Oh, lovely
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-10-01
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<jayis> hi
<cmaloney> lo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-10-02
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Reminder: meeting tonight
<jrwren> rick_h_: bears?!?!
<jrwren> i'm going to prentend that rick_h_ is a huge lions fan and travelled just to see the lions game.
<cmaloney> hah, right
<cmaloney> I know better
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-25
<cmaloney> mirning
<mrgoodcat> mornong
<rick_h> Morn
<_stink__> good morning
<mrgoodcat> >It looks like you're having trouble logging into Facebook. Just click the button below and we'll log you in.
<mrgoodcat> no. i just don't want to use facebook
<rick_h> cmaloney: how'd the talk go?
<rick_h> cmaloney: saw you post something but the timing is off right?
 * rick_h was confused
<cmaloney> rick_h: The talk went well
<cmaloney> Not sure what you mean by timing issues
<cmaloney> The talk wwas at last month's MUG meeting
<cmaloney> The timing issue was Mat P. not being able to do the React talk
<cmaloney> mine was always supposed to happen. :)
<rick_h> cmaloney: gotcha, I think I just saw the link about the talk over the weekend and it wasn't near the 2nd tues so I was confused
<rick_h> cmaloney: just the timing and such.
<cmaloney> no worries
<cmaloney> we record the talks now
<cmaloney> and sometimes it takes a while for them to get posted
<cmaloney> (especially on the website because the webmaster is a laxy fuck)
<rick_h> lol
<cmaloney> His heart is in the right place though. :)
<brousch> Upper left part of his chest?
<_stink__> don't impose your heart placement standards on me
<greg-g> _stink__: did you just assume my species?
<_stink__> all paths from here lead to trouble.
<greg-g> g'morning!
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> morning west coast
<greg-g> I just did the bad manager thing and asked "so, anyone watch football yesterday?" question during team meeting (beginning)
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> "how bout that sportsball now that it's all politically charged"
<_stink__> haha
<cmaloney> This is why Hockey is awesome: can't kneel easily
<cmaloney> unless you're a goalie
<cmaloney> (yes, I'm being facetious)
<cmaloney> Just finished the mowing that I put off all weekend
<cmaloney> Summer can be over now
<cmaloney> https://degooglisons-internet.org/
<brousch> cmaloney:
<brousch> Your grass is still alive?
<cmaloney> By all accounts in the back, it is quite alive and thriving
<cmaloney> though some might argue it's not grass, but a weed collective.
<cmaloney> At least the front yard is
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2017/09/25/tech-interviews-and-hazing-whats-the-difference/
<jrwren> provocative slug
<cmaloney> Read on. :)
<mrgoodcat> +1 decafbad supporting reader mode :)
<cmaloney> :)
<cmaloney> It's all just text. :)
<jrwren> all web frameworks are just fancy versions of ToString()
<greg-g> when noscript informs you of company mergers. On livingsocial.com to buy some science/space museum membership. Allow livingsocial.com and... allow grouponcdn.com? huh
<greg-g> (I know I'm probably years late with that news)
<cmaloney> heh
<ivan2> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-26
<cmaloney> :) to you too
<greg-g> there's worse channel spam options
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> Yeah, that was pretty pleasant
<rick_h> Morning
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<rick_h> jrwren: how's the wife loving the camera?
<jrwren> still learning to use it.
<rick_h> jrwren: cool, if she's interested here's the lenses I still have for m4/3 https://photos.app.goo.gl/Nl1MIJhGY5gxAiLF2
<jrwren> She got frustrated when she got it into some mode and didn't know how to get out. I helped her a bit. It was just a bad UI with touch screen.
<jrwren> But I think she loves it.
<rick_h> lol yea I always hate when I miss getting things setup right
<rick_h> if I don't use it for a bit annoying to have to figure out wtf I was using it for to undo all the config for what I want to do now
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-27
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> party
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-28
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink__> yo
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> Apparently PZMeyers tweeted about octodon.social
<cmaloney> and now people are joining it like crazy
<cmaloney> I know this because I'm on the list of instant follows on that server
<cmaloney> and my notifications / email messages are pegged
<jrwren> weird.
<mrgoodcat> that happened when bryan lunduke joined mastodon.social
<cmaloney> Yeah
<mrgoodcat> i went back to twitter after a while
<mrgoodcat> i liked the idea in theory, but twitter is just easier
<cmaloney> That's because I wasn't on mastodon yet
<cmaloney> but now I am so it's all good. :)
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> when mastodon had its big explosion i saw a bunch of blog posts about server operators that were suddenly hit with massive hosting bills
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> I contribute to my provider's Patreon
<mrgoodcat> and there was always the questionof what happened if your server went down
<cmaloney> You hop to another server
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<greg-g> cmaloney: other than mastodon.social, do you have a recommendation for a good server to join?
 * greg-g is late to the party
<cmaloney> octodon.social is decent
<cmaloney> (That's the one that I'm on)
<greg-g> er yeah, /me was misreading backscroll
<cmaloney> There's a joinmastodon.org as well
<cmaloney> And https://instances.social/
<cmaloney> Which gives you a questionaire about what you're looking for and picks a site
<greg-g> huh, neat
<greg-g> so much bootstrap in the world :(
<cmaloney> Yeah
 * greg-g is a SJW
<greg-g> https://instances.social/list#lang=en&allowed=&prohibited=nudity_nocw,pornography_nocw,sexism,racism,illegalContentLinks,spam,advertising,hateSpeeches,harrassment&users=
<cmaloney> https://i.write.codethat.sucks/about
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> greg-g: Which instance did you pick?
<greg-g> stalling
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> have 4 different things going atm :P
<greg-g> #multitaskingfail
<cmaloney> This is the most important. Chop chop. :)
<greg-g> I need to find that "how to pick an instance" blog post I saw on planet debian
<greg-g> https://carlchenet.com/the-importance-of-choosing-the-correct-mastodon-instance/
<cmaloney> Ah, right
<cmaloney> Honestly they make it really easy to move accounts
<cmaloney> you can export your following list / mutes / blocks
<cmaloney> So if you mis-fire, you can still move with relative ease
<cmaloney> no forwarding address though.
<greg-g> oh, so others following you will have to update? makes sense but bummer
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> But you can also put something like "MOVED" in your name and leave where you've moved to
<greg-g> yeah
<brousch> No pornography? Have people forgotten what the Internet is for?!
<jrwren> maybe CC licenced pornography is acceptable?
<cmaloney> Pretty sure that is a small proportion of pornography
<jrwren> i dunno... i bet a lot of /r/gonewild would license that way if you asked 'em too. :p
<greg-g> jrwren: twitter/reddit is better for prono anyways, no need for it on my matodon :)
<greg-g> +s
<jrwren> no need for porn on twitter IMO. I was just commenting on the "FREEDOM!!!!" associativity of the service :)
<cmaloney> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/sof/d/killer-full-stack-coder-wanted/6322780204.html
<cmaloney> I think the ALL CAPS really sells it
<jrwren> damn! looking for a KILLER like that! I guess in sfbay people can just admit to being killers!
<_stink__> gahahaha
<_stink__> this is great
<greg-g> sad
<_stink__> just shared with my work peeps
<_stink__> no one is laughing yet
<_stink__> does it hit too close to home for valley people?
<greg-g> heh, I should share in our staff channel
<jrwren> i jsut had to lookup C-w again for use in bash over M-BS
<jrwren> lol
<_stink__> hah
<greg-g> "To confirm your inscription, please click on the following link "
<greg-g> am I signing up for something more than just a social network?
<greg-g> sounds like the military
<cmaloney> YOU HAVE BEEN ASSIMILATED!
<cmaloney> CONSCRIPTION COMPLETE
<cmaloney> STAND BY FOR EQUITY
<greg-g> so, did they typo 100 hours/week or 10hours/day?
<cmaloney> Got to love it when the application form site is a huge pain in the ass to use
<greg-g> cmaloney: recommended android mastodon client?
<cmaloney> Tusky or Chrome
<cmaloney> MCM Staffing is looking for experienced servers for an event this Tuesday- Oct 3rd, it would be for a fundraiser starting at 6AM in Detroit.
<cmaloney> Serving experience is mandatory and a high degree of professionalism is expected. Must have experience serving and willing to interview tomorrow or Monday Oct.2nd at our Madison Heights location for the position.
<cmaloney> Please let me know if interested in this event by e-mailing your resume in pdf or word form as an attachment to jstein@mcmstaffing.com with the subject Server- OCT 3rd.
<cmaloney> If you have banquet serving or barista experience please put that as your subject and e-mail your resume in pdf or word format as an attachment to jstein@mcmstaffing.com
<cmaloney> If they would like comedy this would right up my alley
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-29
<cmaloney> 1;2cmorning
<jrwren> good morning.
<cmaloney> how goes?
<jrwren> not sure. Day is just getting started
<jrwren> How goes with you?
<jrwren> amazon is making a ringworld show. could be interesting
<cmaloney> So far so good. Just woke up
<jrwren> oh man... rpm is going to CRUSH deb at speed: http://rpm.org/wiki/Releases/4.14.0
<cmaloney> partially because I have a "self-induced" headache and am making coffee
<jrwren> self-induced? What did you do?
<cmaloney> Port
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> ooooh... wonderful!
<jrwren> what kind?
<cmaloney> Dow's Ruby
<cmaloney> Nothing fancy, but still good
<jrwren> yup, that is good.
<brousch> If port weren't so expensive, I would probably be an alcoholic
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> That's not an invitation to link me to cheap port
<cmaloney> Meijer has it on sale this week
<cmaloney> You're welcome
<cmaloney> Also I think Trader Joe's has a decent port, but I haven't checked recently.
<jrwren> i am an alcoholic, port is cheap enough.
<jrwren> mix your own, buy some cheap brandy and some cheap red wine, mix unit you like it.  pour mans port
<cmaloney> Even better: science until you get it right!
<jrwren> art too.
<jrwren> what is rick_h talking about? when things like what happen?
<rick_h> jrwren: which one?
<jrwren> "I'm always curious what work is done when things like this take place. What really drives the product decisions."
<jrwren> that tweet was all alone in my feed.
<jrwren> now I see it was follow up to your previous tweet, which twitter did not show me.
<rick_h> jrwren: hah note Twitter fun
<rick_h> And greg-g getting my back as I "wtf squarespace?!"
<greg-g> :) :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-30
<brousch> Did apple just open source all of the MacOS and iOS kernels? https://opensource.apple.com/
<brousch> Hm, mayeb that's just pieces of it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-10-01
<cmaloney> iirc Apple Darwin was always somewhat OSS
<cmaloney> it was the pieces like Cocoa and the other stuff that weren't OSS
<cmaloney> https://opensource.apple.com/release/developer-tools-821.html
<cmaloney> This is all the stuff that was already FLOSS
<Scary_Guy> if it was open source was it floss or just foss?  what license do they normally use?
<jrwren> Something additional was open sourced beyond what previous bits of Darwin were open source, but I've no idea WHAT those piecees are.
<jrwren> Darwin has been open source since it started.
<cmaloney> yeah, the kernel was oss
<cmaloney> thiugh you'd be hard pressed to make a mac from the f/loss bits of macosx
<jrwren> impossible.
<jrwren> like you said, none of AppKit is open source.
<jrwren> most of the things here: https://developer.apple.com/macos/  aren't open source or open at all.
<jrwren> same with the things here: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/
<cmaloney> So it's literally open-core, but not open anything else
<cmaloney> "Here, here's a stem foryou to play with
<cmaloney> "and some seeds"
<cmaloney> What aboutthe actual flesh of the apple
<cmaloney> "If you even THINK of copying that we will sue you into oblivion"
<cmaloney> O>  O<
<jrwren> Oh yes, I don't think apple or anyone is claiming anything else.
<jrwren> there is a GNU project to recreate parts of appkit. that Next window manager came out of it.
<jrwren> http://gnustep.org
<cmaloney> Yeah, I remember that
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFSTnZM27Gc
<cmaloney> Oh my, there's even Open GEM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TYUsL74ERU
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-23
<cmaloney> morning
<mrgoodcat> morning
<_stink_> yo
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<jrwren> https://media.ccc.de/v/ASG2019-164-reinventing-home-directories
<jrwren> i wonder what he means by mixing state and configuration. What is configuration if not state?
<cmaloney> Um...
<cmaloney> I don't like his assertion about immutable etc
<cmaloney> etc is configuration. It's the literal embodiment of configuration
<jrwren> i agree.
<jrwren> how is that different than state?
<cmaloney> I'm going ot have to look at this later, because I don't think he's solving what he thinks he's solving
<jrwren> i think he is, but I think he is accepting a whole great number of additional constraints which he isn't talking about.
<cmaloney> INdeed
<cmaloney> I just watched the first 5 minutes and my head tilted about 30 degrees
<cmaloney> I don't want it to come off
<jrwren> I hope he studies otehr systems /etc/passwd replacements like digital unix TCB ;)
<cmaloney> Yes, becausse we're all clamoring for THAT.
<cmaloney> or ndis
<cmaloney> I look forward to lppasswd. ;)
<jrwren> ugh... 21min in his "solution" to ssh logins, isn't a solution at all. it is a work around. I really wish he would state what problem he is solving. Thankfully, distros wont adopt this... i hope.
<brousch> I think of the difference as configuration is what it is supposed to be, and state is how it really is
<brousch> Or initial configuration compared to state while running
<cmaloney> I wish folks would stop with the idea that /etc is read-only
<jrwren> the QA starts to make more sense.
<cmaloney> That seems like the first stumbling block
<greg-g> hello from Portland
<jrwren> Is it weird?
<jrwren> Is it true that the dream of the 90s is still alive there?
<greg-g> yes and yes
<greg-g> a guy with a long coat, black cane with a silver animal head, top hat, and glasses was on the light rail on my way in from the airport
<greg-g> I watched an old pearl jam live performance of Alive last night to help keep it alive (see what I did there?)
<cmaloney> will you be doing this all week? :)
 * cmaloney wants to plan ahead.
<greg-g> listening to pearl jam? probably :P
<cmaloney>  /ignore greg-g
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> since we talked about RO /etc... https://media.ccc.de/v/ASG2019-119-atomic-updates-and-configuration-files-in-etc
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-24
<jrwren> this is really cool: https://media.ccc.de/v/ASG2019-145-distributing-freedesktop-sdk-applications-to-flatpak-snapd-and-docker#t=0
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-25
<cmaloney> morning
 * greg-g yawns
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-27
<cmaloney> TIL: CTRL-T in Bash will transpose the last two characters.
<jrwren> emacs
<cmaloney> Yeah, that would figure. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-28
<dzho> well, C t
<dzho> shifted control in gnome-terminal at least opens a new tab :O
<dzho> cmaloney: but yeah TIL too
<jrwren> damn, installing nodesource nodejs installs python2. https://github.com/nodesource/distributions/blob/master/README.md#debinstall
<jrwren> what will we do in 3months? ubuntu won't be the platform for node, I guess.
<cmaloney> I'm sure they'll figure it out soon
<cmaloney> ish
<dzho> how well is Debian and Ubuntu doing towards python2 EOL?
<cmaloney> About as well as the 32bit EOL.
<dzho> it's something I've been following by proxy on the Fedora/Redhat/CentOS side since folks work at the intersection of that OS family with Sugar Desktop have been trying to get Sugar ported and kept in Fedora
<cmaloney> Yeah
<dzho> like, I think there's a hard reject planned for any python2 deps for the Fedora release after next.
<cmaloney> My estimation is a lot of distros are going to be doing their own security patches for Python2 for a bit
<dzho> next version is going to be by extreme exception only or something like that
<cmaloney> but without upstream patches it's going to get real old real quick
<dzho> (I don't know the lingo)
<dzho> yeah
<dzho> > Python 2 is no longer installed by default. Python 3 has been updated to 3.6. This is the last LTS release to include Python 2 in main.
<dzho> that's the rel notes for bionic
<cmaloney> Yeah, so it can be installed if you need it
<dzho> I guess I should know better what not-being-in-main means for things with a python dependency
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-29
<jrwren> rick_h's bears are having a good day
