#ubuntu-accessibility 2010-08-23
<Pendulum> interesting blog post: http://hand2mouth.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/assistive-technology-and-accessing-the-digital-divide/
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: if you haven't seen it: uds.ubuntu.com
<Pendulum> nigelb: ^^
<Pendulum> sponsorship apps are due September 8th
#ubuntu-accessibility 2010-08-25
<nigelb> AlanBell: hi
<Pendulum> nigelb: I think he's on holiday
<nigelb> Pendulum: oh? I thought popey was the one on vacation
<nigelb> My bad.
<Pendulum> both of them :)
<nigelb> Aha
<nigelb> In about 2 weeks, I can say the same :)
<Pendulum> :)
* Pendulum changed the topic of #ubuntu-accessibility to: Ubuntu Accessibility Team https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility for more info | http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility to join the mailing list | Channel IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Updated every hour | Next Team Meeting, September 15, 2010 21:00 UTC. Meeting agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda
<Pendulum> we have logs!
<Pendulum> well, are logged :)
<nigelb> \o/
<Pendulum> if anyone cares, we've got one of the official bots that required a RT request
<Pendulum> (because when I poked jussi or someone that's what they told me I should do because of the nature of the team)
<AlanBell> hi
<AlanBell> I am indeed on holiday
<nigelb> AlanBell: where are you vacationing?
<nigelb> (also, poke me when you're back - hopefully before my vacation starts ;) )
<AlanBell> Wales
<AlanBell> far from the internet
<AlanBell> have to drive miles to get a connection
<Pendulum> AlanBell: so don't :P enjoy the time offline with your family :)
#ubuntu-accessibility 2010-08-26
<AlanBell> so it is the global jam this weekend
<AlanBell> we are getting started on the personas, which would be great
<Pendulum> yes
#ubuntu-accessibility 2010-08-28
<AlanBell> hi all
<Pendulum> hi AlanBell 
<AlanBell> ok, so how are we doing these personas then?
<Pendulum> let me look at the most up to date list and then I'll give you my ideas
<Pendulum> (sorry, still waking up/doing breakfast/etc. here)
<AlanBell> oh, there have been three more submissions
<AlanBell> actually two sensible ones
<Pendulum> \o/
<Pendulum> do you want to add them in and then e-mail at least to me?
<AlanBell> once we know what we are doing I will try and grab some extra helpers
<Pendulum> I think the first thing we do is just group in terms of impairment
<AlanBell> ok
<Pendulum> the real reason to do this today is less a matter of it will take a lot of time so needs lots of people and more that I want to make sure we're all working off the same things and have the same spreadsheet :)
<AlanBell> so there are a couple of deaf users, 1, 16, 27
<AlanBell> a number of blind/vision impaired users
<Pendulum> do any of them have other impairments? (multiple impairments are what will make this tricky)
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> and I would expect the personas to have multiple impairments
<Pendulum> or at least some of them
<Pendulum> okay, let's do the easiest bits first
<AlanBell> there are some users with mobility/strength/control issues
<Pendulum> well I'm just thinking first we pull out the people who have a single impariment and group them
<Pendulum> then we figure out how to group the people with multiple impairments
<AlanBell> ok, I am just going to close the survey, don't want anyone else responding and wasting their time
<Pendulum> ok
<Pendulum> so 1 & 27 definitely go together because they're both deaf only
<Pendulum> number 4 doesn't have any impairment info and doesn't seem to use accessibility software or hardware really
<Pendulum> which to me means it should probably be taken out?
<Pendulum> it's great that said person loves Ubuntu, but they don't really give us information useful to us
<Pendulum> hiya charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Hello, Pendulum 
<charlie-tca> power issues today here
<Pendulum> how're you?
<charlie-tca> Doing great! and you?
<AlanBell> yeah, I should have skipped number 4
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: i'm swimming along ;-)
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> Hoping to have things running long enough this weekend to hit the wiki, too
<Pendulum> :)
<AlanBell> I have re-ordered my rows a bit
<Pendulum> okay
<Pendulum> can you list out the new order by persona #?
<Pendulum> err... peron
<Pendulum> *person
<Pendulum> or response number
<Pendulum> or whatever the heck we're calling it that my brain isn't finding the word for?
<AlanBell> 3, 5, 11, 16,20,21,22,26 are all partially sighted or blind
<AlanBell> however that is two totally separate things really
<Pendulum> it is, but putting them together to begin with makes sense
<Pendulum> we can break down further once we've got initial breakdown done :)
<AlanBell> 27 and 1 are deaf, and there are some interesting aspects to that like subtitles
<Pendulum> yeah
<Pendulum> and visual notification
<AlanBell> and video chat
<Pendulum> yeah
<Pendulum> too bad MichelleQ and maco aren't here :P
<AlanBell> and wanting more people to understand sign language
<AlanBell> the rest are broadly speaking mobility related
<AlanBell> things like hand strength and control
<Pendulum> yeah
<Pendulum> well and we have a couple people with learning difficulties/disabilities
<Pendulum> one with motor + dyspraxia & dyslexia and #2 I think was cognitive in similar sort of ways
<AlanBell> yes, memory difficulties
<AlanBell> oh, 2 and 18 are the same
<AlanBell> do hope they didn't actually forget they had done it the first time
<AlanBell> looks like a double press of the submit button or something
<Pendulum> *nods*
<AlanBell> are there any impairments not represented in the responses?
<Pendulum> mental illness, but I suspect people with mental illness are less likely to need adaptions
<Pendulum> I wish we had more learning/cognitive, but we have some
<AlanBell> no mention of autism
<Pendulum> yeah
<AlanBell> I did describe myself as "almost neurotypical" in the test post that I deleted
<Pendulum> heh
<Pendulum> btw, one of the ones in the VI/blind group is actually also mobility impaired, he just barely mentions it
<AlanBell> ok, so how many personas can we boil this down to?
<Pendulum> I'd like to see if we can boil down to 5ish
<Pendulum> but it may take 6 or 7
<AlanBell> deaf, partially sighted, blind, mobility, cognitive?
<Pendulum> yeah
<Pendulum> that was my initial thought
<AlanBell> as principal impairments, with a bit of overlap
<Pendulum> right
<Pendulum> I mean, having the partially sighted also have hearing loss, would make sense as a bit of overlap
<Pendulum> (for example)
<AlanBell> should also have a range of ages
<AlanBell> maybe one quite elderly
<Pendulum> yeah
<Pendulum> ranging to kids
<Pendulum> or, a kid
<Pendulum> rather
<Pendulum> sorry, I'm doing a lot of lack of brain function today
<AlanBell> one or two rather successful in what they are doing (in business, sport or something)
<Pendulum> at least one who works as a programmer or sysadmin or something similar
<AlanBell> they need to be awesome people that we want to help
<Pendulum> yes!
<AlanBell> what countries do they live in?
<Pendulum> hmm... good question
<Pendulum> tbh, I'm not even sure we need to answer all these questions today
<Pendulum> my main goal for the personas was to get things grouped and sorted so that we had a starting point and then hopefully can get people to commit to working on one persona
<Pendulum> AlanBell: what hours would be good for you for a meeting on Wednesday?
<Pendulum> nigelb: ping
<Pendulum> (or any other day of the week, I'm flexible other than not being able to do anything after about 19:00 on Monday and Wednesday)
<AlanBell> I am pretty good all day on wednesday
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: are you interested in working on the personas?
<Pendulum> ooh... this is cool http://www.frostbitesystems.com/
<Pendulum> oh, nevermind, it seems they already do
<Pendulum> they just don't have Ubuntu on their list
<Pendulum> bah, wrong channel
<Pendulum> but the frostbite systems link is for us
<Pendulum> they sell systems running Linxu and optimised for people who are VI or blind
<Pendulum> *Linux
<Pendulum> and they do do Ubuntu installs
<charlie-tca> Pendulum: I don't think I can
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: no worries :) was just curious
<maco> im awake now what happened?
<Pendulum> maco: I can't remember. something about deafness :P
<AlanBell> I am awake too
<Pendulum> AlanBell: why are you awake, it's late for you :P
<AlanBell> beer is keeping me awake
<Pendulum> heh
<Pendulum> good reason
<AlanBell> just got back from the pub with theopensourcerer
<Pendulum> :)
#ubuntu-accessibility 2010-08-29
<charlie-tca> Do we know the date of the next meeting?
<Pendulum> the next full team meeting is September 15th
<Pendulum> (I actually remembered to put it in the topic for once!)
<charlie-tca> heh, Everything happens given time...
<charlie-tca> You mean I should have read it?
<Pendulum> haha
<charlie-tca> change the date here to update the meeting times on the wiki now
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Header
<Pendulum> nah, I don't really expect people to read the topic if they've been around for a while
<Pendulum> *nods*
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: btw, since I'm sure you wouldn't have notcied the topic, we have logs now :P
<charlie-tca> You are right! Thanks
<Pendulum> they're on irclogs.ubuntu.com
<webczat> Hey.
<webczat> Why I can't access synaptic from ubuntu-10? I mean i can't use it with orca.
<Pendulum> webczat: what exactly are you trying to do? could you potentially add the package you're looking for from the command line instead?
<Pendulum> (Sorry, I have no real experience with Orca so can't tell you exactly what the problem is)
<webczat> Pendulum: i can use command line but things like update manager use synaptics i think
<Pendulum> ah, okay
<Pendulum> you can also update by doing "sudo apt-get update" (without the quotation marks)
<webczat> it's upgrade i think. i meant upgrading the system
<webczat> it's update manager. or upgrade manager.
<Pendulum> what are you trying to upgrade to?
<webczat> not trying to upgrade to. it's just an example of a program using synaptics
<Pendulum> ah, okay
<webczat> also, language support when installing packages. i just can't see anything/any progress bar or whatever
<Pendulum> *nods*
<webczat> update manager also does the same but it just returns after updating. the language manager first notifies (when in root) that it installed the package and requires me to press close while nothing talks to me.
<Pendulum> I'm really sorry, I wish I could help, but I really know nothing about Orca. Have you tried asking either on the mailing list, forums, or filing a bug?
<AlanBell> oh, I know this one
<AlanBell> I saw a bug about it today
<AlanBell> it is because you run synaptic with sudo access
<webczat> no, irc is faster if someone is on it
<AlanBell> and the root user you switch to does not have at-spi (or orca or it is disconnected from your session or something)
<Pendulum> oh dear, that's a rather major bug
<AlanBell> it was a blueprint I saw, not a bug https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/sudo-admin-atspi
<Pendulum> that's really old, though
<AlanBell> that is a 2006 blueprint, might be done by now
<Pendulum> the whiteboard says it was done and submitted for Feisty
<Pendulum> webczat: what version of Ubuntu are you using?
<webczat> Pendulum: lucid.
<Pendulum> hmm... this is a year old, but I wonder if the same fix would work http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com/msg03527.html
<Pendulum> webczat: have you tried running synaptic from the command line as "sudo synaptic"?
<AlanBell> just trying it with orca on my laptop, it doesn't read synaptic after the gksudo prompt
<Pendulum> yeah, that seems to be the issue
<AlanBell> and sudo gedit from the command prompt doesn't read gedit
<Pendulum> there's a question from this month on the Orca list, I think, but no one has answered
<Pendulum> webczat: you're not the Milton who posted a question to orca-list about this issue last week, right?
<webczat> no
<webczat> what about making orbit enable ipv4 and disable unix? can someone try to enable it for both root and user?
<AlanBell> that would make sense
<AlanBell> I was trying to run orca with sudo but it doesn't want to start
<webczat> AlanBell: Try it. Can you? If you'll enable this thing in orbit and relogin, it should probably use user's at-spi
<webczat> I don't have the ubuntu laptop yet.
<webczat> like, i have it but i currently can't use it
<webczat> but i want to have it accessible at wednesday. also, i was required to manually set accessibility to true and as mandatory in gconf editor to be able to set accessible login in gdm
<webczat> s/at/on
<webczat> i mean i can set it but it doesn't really enable at-spi even if restarted
<webczat> also, i can do sudo-u gdm <gconftoolusagehere) to enable accessibility in gdm, it doesn't do that itself. but it's cool that i can, for example, run orca preferences in gdm
<charlie-tca> some work done on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility ; review in progress
<AlanBell> not sure how to get it to use IP sockets, all the documentation I see is about the move to dbus
<AlanBell> just wondering if this has been addressed in vinux
<webczat> AlanBell: wait, i'll give you the config
<webczat> file is .orbitrc in homedir
<webczat> http://equal.cluenet.org/~webczat/orbitconf do you get it?
<webczat> AlanBell: try to put it in /root, if doesn't work, then also in your homedir and relogin then
<AlanBell> ok, put that in /root/.orbitrc and /home/alan/.orbitrc and now rebooting
<AlanBell> doesn't seem to help
<AlanBell> just going to try booting into Maverick
<AlanBell> broken in Maverick too
<webczat> Wait for a while, i'm now trying to set up the workflow for bugs in trac repo. or i will try
<webczat> Hmm, or not. anyway, going off.
<AlanBell> ok, I will mention it to themuso if I see him online later webczat 
<webczat> re
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-08-22
<charlie-tca> TheMuso: need to make sure we get bug 829370 looked at when you get a chance, please.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 829370 in at-spi2-core "at-spi-bus-launcher crashed with SIGSEGV in XFlush()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829370
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-08-23
<IdleOne> How do you get to the onscreen keyboard in Unity without a working keyboard?
 * IdleOne is running kubuntu here so I can't figure it out for myself
<AlanBell> hard IdleOne 
<AlanBell> for unknown reasons an ubuntu patch removes the menu entry
<IdleOne> AlanBell: so what you are telling me is that it can't be done right now in Unity?
<AlanBell> IdleOne: you can launch nautilus and navigate to /usr/bin/onboard and run it from there
<AlanBell> maco: who was it that you challenged to fix bug 739812
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 739812 in unity "Must use hardware keyboard to perform search for applications in Unity" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/739812
<AlanBell> three letter nick, all caps
<Pendulum> DBO?
<maco> AlanBell: i forget atm, but the patch he came up with turned out to break other stuff so it didnt go in
<maco> Pendulum: yeah thats it
<maco> it was like it has some weird edgecase bugs at certain resolutions or something
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-08-24
<AlanBell> IdleOne: looks like it will be in the unity menu in oneiric, the patch to remove it is not there now
<AlanBell> same for orca, that is back in the menus
<Pendulum> \o/
<AlanBell> all you have to do is find it in unity somewhere /o\
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-08-25
<nigelb> o/
<nigelb> Interesting post about acessible education by a friend http://ilnodisaarcodu.wordpress.com/2011/08/25/95/
<Pendulum> nigelb: can you check with him about whether we could repost (obviously with attibution and link to his post) on our blog? (as hopefully a way to give him some signal boost)
<nigelb> sure
<nigelb> Pendulum: bah, he's not online right now.
<nigelb> I'll poke him later, when he's on
<Pendulum> nigelb: just whenever poke if it's okay :)
<charlie-tca> The latest "I really want Onboard in the menu" bug is bug 833862
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 833862 in onboard "Onboard Keyboard should have a menu entry for Xubuntu/Xfce" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833862
<charlie-tca> We do keep trying
<AlanBell> it is in the menu now surely
<AlanBell> in oneiric
<AlanBell> we have stopped breaking it now
<AlanBell> and the onboard settings application now works too and it has the ambiance theme by default
<charlie-tca> It is always in the menus in alphas, but get removed for the final
<AlanBell> which is pretty much the one I designed, but with better keycap shading and a shadow on the font which looks rubbish imho
<AlanBell> ok, I will keep a close eye on it :)
<charlie-tca> It has done the menu thing for at least two releases that I am aware of, so I would hope to at least get the file changed to let xubuntu keep it this time
<AlanBell> well so far there is no patch to change
<charlie-tca> Every bug does not require a patch
<AlanBell> yeah, but in this situation the upstream package is just fine, we break it, and you want to unbreak it for xubuntu, but as it has not yet been broken it can't be unbroken
<charlie-tca> No, I simply want the desktop file to have a line added that will allow the damn thing to stay in the menu
<AlanBell> if you put "OnlyShowIn=XFCE;" in now, then that will break it for everything else
<charlie-tca> The same thing I have watched countless times get closed because it doesn't need to be in a menu, those who need it should know it exists and be able to magically use it
<charlie-tca> It was in the menu in natty and maverick, too. Where is it again?
<charlie-tca> It can't be sru'd or backported because it is not important enough. On the other hand, it can't be in the menu for final release either
<AlanBell> ok, so lets find out who is breaking it and get a commitment from them to not break it
<AlanBell> bug 786130
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 786130 in onboard "not present in unity application launcher" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/786130
<AlanBell> I am tempted to mark that one as fix released, then if someone breaks it then it will be a regression
<AlanBell> regressions can be SRUed
<AlanBell> oh, it was TheMuso who put the patch in
<AlanBell> TheMuso: we are not doing this any more are we? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/onboard/oneiric/changes?filter_file_id=01_disable_menu_icon-20100414061233-bk6cf6sdsaty3jr8-1
<charlie-tca> Let's take it all the wayy then - see bug 275450
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 275450 in onboard "menu items missing on fresh install of Ubuntu" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275450
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: you are totally right, that was added really late in the 10.04 cycle, I will check 10.10 and 11.04
<AlanBell> same patch, I can't figure it out, looks to me like it has been there since 2010-04-14
<AlanBell> skaet do you know about this issue?
 * skaet reading the backscroll
<AlanBell> skaet: the onboard on screen keyboard has been removed from the menus, which means you need to use a keyboard to start your keyboard
<AlanBell> it is there in Oneiric at the moment, but we believe it has been removed last minute from other releases
<skaet> AlanBell, urk.  first I'm hearing of it. 
<AlanBell> it is an Ubuntu patch that intentionally breaks it :(
<charlie-tca> Um, could always try looking in the menu in natty, if you are running it. 
<charlie-tca> It really is frustrating to see it in the menus and then have it gone for the final release.
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: lets get a screenshot of it in documentation somewhere
<charlie-tca> of the menu item?
<AlanBell> yes
<charlie-tca> Okay, I can attach screenshots to the bugs
<charlie-tca> Unfortunately, all that shows after the patch is pushed is that I added it to my menus, doesn't it?
<AlanBell> I meant other documentation, there will be screenshots of the unity menu in documentation the docs team manage
<skaet> AlanBell, charlie-tca - do you have some specifics about which Ubuntu patch causes the clobber in the other releases?
<AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/onboard/oneiric/changes?filter_file_id=01_disable_menu_icon-20100414061233-bk6cf6sdsaty3jr8-1
<AlanBell> one sec, let me work out a more sensible link than that one
<skaet> AlanBell, yes please
<charlie-tca> http://tinyurl.com/3uz5h6k
<AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/onboard/natty/files/head:/debian/patches/
<AlanBell> so that is the natty patch that takes it out of the menu
<skaet> thanks AlanBell,  that one makes a bit more sense.   
<AlanBell> looks like the patch was added in Rev 22 and removed in Rev 28
<skaet> AlanBell, we'll probably need to get pitti involved to help sort this out.   Probably best to wait until after B1 goes out and then bring it up, unless there's a reason its time critical right now?
<AlanBell> not time critical, just don't want the patch to slip back in at the last minute!
<AlanBell> and it would be nice to do an SRU removal for the supported distros
<AlanBell> right now it looks good for Oneiric, UI freeze is today so it should stay there
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: UI freeze being the reason to get it in the documentation :)
<charlie-tca> I can run a Ubuntu install and get shots of it.
<charlie-tca> But if it doesn't stay, the docs will get bugs against them too, for being wrong
<AlanBell> exactly
<charlie-tca> We will try it
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-08-26
<charlie-tca> no on screen keyboard for oneiric?
<charlie-tca> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/739812
<ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 739812 in unity "Must use hardware keyboard to perform search for applications in Unity" [Medium,Confirmed]
<charlie-tca> see last comments
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: I think the on screen keyboard is there, it's the part about having it work with the Dash that won't be there?
<charlie-tca> Maybe, but doesn't that say "to hell with a11y, what works, works, and the rest is too bad"?
<Pendulum> is this anything new?
<charlie-tca> We only been pushing this very thing since they announced unity back in natty UDS
<maco> accessibilty always gets the backburner to shiny
<charlie-tca> Yeah, back to "Accessibility is very important, as long as it doesn't get in the way again"
<charlie-tca> Oh, yeah. I forgot. I won't complain about that no more. I promised.
<AlanBell> on the plus side it does work in unity 2d
<AlanBell> and I have been asking about it in #ayatana
<AlanBell> 17:23 < DBO> AlanBell, it's actively being worked on, I have done the part I could do (make it so that the dash doesn't grab mouse/keyboard)
<AlanBell> 17:24 < DBO> IM support in dash is up to the dash guys now (they have some test work done)
<AlanBell> and this is a problem shared by everyone who wants to use Ubuntu on a tablet
 * AlanBell likes sharing problems
<charlie-tca> According to the blueprints, we aren't even defaulting to 2d?
<AlanBell> probably not, no
<charlie-tca> Doesn't that kind of kill accessible installations?
<AlanBell> the 3d one should be accessible to orca now (there is loads of code for it)
<charlie-tca> since 3d doesn't work with orca
<AlanBell> have you tried it?
<charlie-tca> No, I just been looking at the ML
<charlie-tca> I will be trying it this weekend, so we know whether or not to include it in the ISO testing
<AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/files/head:/services/
<AlanBell> loadsa ATK code stuff
<AlanBell> I am not testing that right now, but I saw all that code earlier, if it doesn't work it should do
<AlanBell> not sure if unity 2d will be accessible to orca (I suspect not)
<charlie-tca> yeah, that was the goal this cycle, though
<AlanBell> the plan was always to go for a fully accessible 3d before dropping the classic option
<AlanBell> unity2d accessibility was more likely to be next cycle with the QML stuff upstream done this cycle
<charlie-tca> Then I must have misunderstand this blueprint - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-dx-o-unity-a11y
<maco> charlie-tca: jsut pretend you see the word "POSTPONED" at the end of each line :)
<charlie-tca> Apparently from the day after UDS?
<AlanBell> "Hard target: Unity must have accessibility in Oneiric"
<AlanBell> I think that refers to Unity 3d
<AlanBell> there is a work item for setting unity-2d to be the default, but that might not be a good idea
<charlie-tca> all the items were for 2d, because we would not be able to make orca work correctly in 3d
<AlanBell> why not?
<charlie-tca> gnome3 and gtk3
<AlanBell> which should be fine
<AlanBell> it was the Qt stuff that was the major toolkit problem
<AlanBell> anyhow, it needs testing
<charlie-tca> yes it does
<charlie-tca> but the original blueprint really does say 2d, not 3d
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: I made a dummy speech dispatcher module the other day which doesn't speak out loud, but logs a transcript of everything it would say
<AlanBell> so you can have a terminal window open with tail -f speech.out to see it scroll past if you want to test stuff with orca silently, or if you want a transcript of the session for structured testing purposes
<charlie-tca> I don't honestly know yet how to set up automatic tests
<charlie-tca> Will be working on them, since we can now automate any tests I can figure out
<charlie-tca> I will be wanting that, when I get tests automated
<valorie> are y'all talking with fregl about qt a11y?
<valorie> because he's a genius, and very committed, and working really hard
<valorie> he lives in #kde-accessability
<valorie> he and Harald / apachelogger can accomplish miracles, if asked
<valorie> and by y'all, I mean Pendulum, AlanBell and charlie-tca, since you are the movers and shakers
<maco> valorie: thats for unity 2d, which is pretty dandy at this point
<maco> valorie: trouble is unity 3d still cant work with onscreen keyboards and is supposed to be default
<valorie> right, I read up
<valorie> " it was the Qt stuff that was the major toolkit problem"
<maco> fregl's in the channel,ya know :P
<valorie> was what I was responding to
<maco> yes, "was"...past tense :)
<valorie> heh
<valorie> oh well, he gets a compliment then
<valorie> :-)
<valorie> are you ready for the storm, maco?
<maco> i have lots of wool to spin if the power goes out
<maco> so....yes?
<valorie> well, water to drink, food to eat
<valorie> candles, board games
<valorie> :-)
<maco> who needs board games? i have wool and a spindle!
<maco> but yeah i have candles. was camping recently ;)
<valorie> you have the skillz, for sure
<maco> and food...im one of those people who keeps lots of beans around
<maco> i dont really expect much disruption beyond maybe a day or two of lost power
<maco> if that happens...go to boyfriend's apartment. that building's got a giant diesel generator that can go at least a day
<valorie> cool
<maco> if the power's out at my place, i can still cook *real* food, just no microwave burritos :P
<valorie> lol
<valorie> we're set up, out here, since occasionally it's out for up to 6 days
<valorie> that was the longest
<AlanBell> maco: so unity2d should work with orca now?
<maco> AlanBell: idk about orca. i know i was able to use some kde apps with kde's screenreader. fregl'd know about the state of the gnome<->kde accessibility communications stuff
<maco> anything qt *should* work with kde's screenreader i think though
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-08-27
<Pendulum> just as an FYI, I'm in Irene's path and while it should be down to tropical storm when it hits us, we may still lose power or internet. So tomorrow/Monday I'm probably best reachable for anything important by e-mail
 * phillw just as general question... for accessbility can alternate iso's work, or do they not have the requirements for accessibility?
<phillw> Pendulum: keep safe!
<charlie-tca> phillw: Accessible installs with orca have never worked for alternate images
<charlie-tca> however, there are some options in F4 or F5 for high contrast and magnifier that should work
<phillw> thanks charlie-tca... well it was worth an ask :)
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> IIRC, debian-installer doesn't have sound, which is a problem with orca
<phillw> charlie-tca: "Thanks to some recent work by Colin Watson on this, specifically for Lubuntu, we now have automatically created daily Lubuntu Alternate CD images." It may not be beyond the realms of impossibility to ask him?
<charlie-tca> You will have the same options the rest of us have. Colin doesn't activate the accessibility stuff, he just does installers
<charlie-tca> TheMuso and dtchen probably would be the ones, but I think getting the desktop images accessible is a priority right now
<phillw> okay, so accessibility on install is still basically a no-go if you have a machine that cannot run Ubiquity?
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> as far as a talking installation, at least
<charlie-tca> The magnification and high contrast are also accessibility
<phillw> okies... I'll add it to my to my "quietly ask" list of things :P
<phillw> well, they are at least worth a mention. I'll have a play with therm on VM after the bank-holiday
<phillw> I'm on a 3G device, so cannot afford the data allowance to start grabbing iso's :)
<phillw> At least when they get Ubiquity talking happily it should be included on the Lubuntu iso's as we now use the official build system.
<charlie-tca> correct
<charlie-tca> Accessible install - orca failed to start
<charlie-tca> I can try again tomorrow, but as of today, accessible installs fail 100%
<phillw> charlie-tca: there is a jockey bug that is affecting all ubuntu's and also causes ubiquity to die. Pitti is on the case of that and I understand a fix is imminent. for the alternate iso's I have not had a chance to test as I am at the see-side house of my parents for a break :)
<charlie-tca> yes, but that should be be blocking orca
<charlie-tca> Nor does it stop installs unless you check "install third party software"
<charlie-tca> I have been installing all day, so the jockey bug doesn't stop installs
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-08-28
<phillw> charlie-tca: I got two jockey crashes followed by a Ubiquity crash on my VM. Until they narrow the crashes down, there is little I can do when the Jockey bug affects over 100 people on testing area. Such are the joys of alphas! When the beta 2 ones get cracking, I'll start to multi partition my hard drive for them. Whilst the installer is having problems, it really does seem to me a bit of waste of time and effort for me to take down my o
 * phillw but of course I and lots of others could be totally wrong when we say there is a problem... https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.searchtext=jockey&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.a
<charlie-tca> I see. All my testing is on hardware, since Unity doesn't work so good in a VM.
<phillw> charlie-tca: once we get to beta, I will slice my hard disk into little pieces, I recall drs305 (Dave Stan) pondering at my having 10 installs under grub at boot time :)
<TheMuso> charlie-tca: Whilst I got your message last week, I was on vacation last week. Will take a look at that bug this week.
<charlie-tca> Thanks. I did realize that after I asked. 
<charlie-tca> I had held off on it for three days or so, too.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-08-21
<kinouchou> /ubuntu-fr-meeting
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-08-25
<AlanBell> there is a kind of open discussion on accessibility happening today via mumble
<AlanBell> ch1.teamspeak.cc
<AlanBell> port 64747
<Cheri703> any specific time, or in general? (I likely missed it)
<AlanBell> it is going on for 12 hours apparently
<Cheri703> ah, ok.
<AlanBell> it relates to http://accessiblecomputingfoundation.org/ which is a non profit that has been set up
<Cheri703> yeah, I'm in. thanks!
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-08-26
<sebsebseb> hi TheMuso
<sebsebseb> about by any chance?
<sebsebseb> probably sleeping
<sebsebseb> anyway is anyone about here at the moment?
<sebsebseb> hi
<sebsebseb> again
#ubuntu-accessibility 2013-08-19
 * Fudge blinks TheMuso 
#ubuntu-accessibility 2013-08-25
<Fudge> ?
<Texou> hi :) 
<Texou> are you aware of installation issues of Voxin 0.52? Do nou know some process to success?
