#ubuntu-touch 2013-01-08
<WebVisitor-0> marco
<drott> i am working on touch features for EFL webkit, my environment is ubuntu 12.04 - is there a way i can disable the three finger and four finger gestures?
<dandrader> drott, only if you use a shell other than Unity.
<drott> dandrader: or I guess, recompiling unityshell and patch these out? but you're saying there is no setting?
<dandrader> drott, or that. no there's no such setting.
<drott> dandrader: alright, thanks
#ubuntu-touch 2013-01-09
<WebVisitor-2> Hey there! I need help with configuring touch gestures (duh)
<WebVisitor-2> I'm on 12.10, on a Lenovo B570 laptop and have installed touchegg, but I'm only able to use the two fingers to scroll gesture, which is already installed by default
<WebVisitor-2> so I'd love to know if there is any easy tutorial to follow to get three finger and four finger gestures working, so it behaves like OSX. (With natural scrolling and all)
<dandrader> WebVisitor-2,  3 and 4 finger gestures are captured by Unity. So you won't be able to use them in applications
<dandrader> 3 finger gestures move and maximize/restore windows. 4 finger taps show and hide the dash
<dandrader> 4 finger double taps = alt+tab, etc
<dandrader> I mean, 3 finger double tap
<WebVisitor-2> If I try any of the 3 finger gestures to minimize a window, or something, it doesn't work
<dandrader> the list of gestures is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch
<Visitor_Max> could the touchpad be a factor?
<Visitor_Max> if 2 finger gestures work, will 3 finger stuff work per se
<dandrader> no
<dandrader> it depends on how many simultaneous and independent touches your trackpad supports
<dandrader> there are several trackpads that support only two simultaneous touch points, for instance
<Visitor_Max> any way to check?
<Visitor_Max> I don't even see my trackpad listed in lsinput
<dandrader> xinput test-xi2 <device>
<Visitor_Max> sorry if that gets really noobish, but how do I know what dev my trackpad is?
<dandrader> it's been a while since I last used this tool (xinput) though,  so I don't recall its usage details
<dandrader> this xinput tool can list the available input devices
<Visitor_Max> k I'll see
<dandrader> just run it without any parameters
<Visitor_Max> list did the trick
<Visitor_Max> it's id11, so I'll try that in xinput, one moment
<Visitor_Max> won't react to three finger inputs
<Visitor_Max> guess I'm out of luck, then
<Visitor_Max> do you know an easy way to get pinch to zoom and inverted scrolling working?
<dandrader> on
<dandrader> no
<WebVisitor-6> sorry got disconnected. did you write anything?
<WebVisitor-3> hi
#ubuntu-touch 2013-01-10
<ktogias> hey all
<ktogias> I have in my hands a sony vaio duo 11 hybrid ultrabook -tablet that i intent to use with ubuntu (came with win8). I have installed 12.10. All standard components (graphics, sound, wifi, mic, cameras) are working out of the box :) . But I have some trouble with pointing devices, among them the N-Tring DuoSense multi-ttouch screen: It is miscalibrated by default, and ven if i calibrate it with xinput-calibrtor, it stops responding a
<ktogias> s soon as i put a second finger. The pc also comes with a stylus, that does not seem to be recognized at all.
<ktogias> Any hints to documentation or tools to start experimenting with config options? I am going to submit bug reports, but I suppose that you can give me some hints for betterr investigation and testing.
#ubuntu-touch 2013-01-13
<Sorinan> Do we have any implementation of pixel-perfect scrolling in Firefox right now?
#ubuntu-touch 2014-01-06
<kedivess> good evening...
<kedivess> i just flashed ubuntu-image on my nexus 4......may i add google contacts?
<Beldar> kedivess, http://askubuntu.com/questions/360554/how-do-i-sync-google-contacts
<kedivess> thanks for the answer....i did....but i had thi s error "First ERROR encountered: GLib-GObject: g_object_unref: assertion 'G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed"
<Beldar> I have no idea past the link is all. I just searched with  ubuntu touch add google contacts
<Beldar> google that is
<kedivess> should i need to flash a cdimage??? maybe because the system-image is read-only??
<Beldar> kedivess, Yes I believe it is a read only unless you do some voodoo I never got to myself in trying it out. The answer to that should be in the touch info at the thread top or on the web.
<heathbar> I'd like to use WiFi dongle with the RT5370 chip in ubuntu touch... It seems I need to build and install the driver from source provided by the manufacturer.  The make files don't work out of the box... mainly because it expects /lib/modules is WR... but it's not.
<heathbar> I'm new... any advice about the right way to compile drivers from source in ubuntu touch?
<RAOF> heathbar: You'd need to (at least) switch the rootfs to read/write mode; there are instructions somewhere for that, I think on the main page.
<RAOF> heathbar: You may also run into the fact that, to my knowledge, we don't use the Ubuntu kernel on the device; we use Android's.
<heathbar> Thanks for the tips... I already turned off the read-only mode of the root fs (touch /userdata/.writeable_image) and installed a lot of packages, gcc, linux headers...  I saw some posts that said that /lib/modules is read-only because it is a squashfs compressed filesystem...
<heathbar> Hum... Regarding the android vs ubuntu kernel question... I got the impression that the old system was android kernel running ubuntu in a container (unflipped)... but that the new system is the ubuntu kernel running some android bits in a container (flipped)... Can any experts clarify my understanding?
<Dale> Hello, I hope someone can help me with this: i got LG Optimus L9 P769 can i run ubuntu for android on it?
<olli_> bzoltan, or anyone from the SDK team, what's the current status re sensors & QML
<olli_> I am trying to access the accelerometer but don't get anything useful out of it
<olli_> bzoltan, is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/SdkFeatureStatus up to date?
<inoX> Hey, I flashed Ubuntu Touch on my old Nexus 7 but it seems as if this is not the last version of it. I used a flashable zip with CWM. Can someone please tell me where I could find an up to date version?
<ogra_> by using the official installation process :)
<ogra_> (see the topic of this channel
<ogra_> )
<inoX> Oh, :( okay
<inoX> is there some place in the preview os where I can look up the exact build version?
<popey> adb shell system-image-cli -i
<asac> o/
<inoX> okay. I will try that. Thanks for the immediate support!
<asac> HNY :)
<tvoss> asac, o/
<ogra_> inoX, in the system-settings app ... "About this  device"
<asac> hi tvoss !!
<tvoss> asac, hny :)
<inoX> uhm, currently my device is low on battery anyways. Its always a pain with the old nexus 7.
<inoX> It always feels totally bricked then ^^
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> nexus4 can behave worse though (to a point where you have to take it apart and remove the battery lead)
<inoX> I am glad, that i never had to do this with my device..
<inoX> The nexus 7 is sealed :S
<ogra_> popey, do you still read ubuntu-users ?
<popey> ogra_: nope
<ogra_> k
<popey> should I?
<ogra_> nah i was just wondering ... (there is a discussion about filemanagers and i brought up that when unity8 takes over the desktop we might likely use the qml filemanager in it, just wamnted to know if i talk rubbish here )
<popey> certainly plausible right now.. who knows in 6 months â»
<ogra_> yeah
 * ogra_ wouldnt mind to see a nautilus replacement ... 
<ogra_> especially since QML feels so much easier to extend
<ogra_> asac, we still use swap on the images, we should start making a plan what to test when we disable it (and then drop it), before it is to late in the cycle to catch possible issues without it
<ogra_> rsalveti, ^^^
<seb128> ogra_, the day the new file manager has enough features for a desktop usage we can surely discuss it, would be nice to have a consistent toolkit use through our apps for sure
<asac> ogra_: ack
<ogra_> seb128, yeah ... and not to be dependent to upstream feature removals too
<seb128> ogra_, but file-manager is not a trivial app, especially when you start handling remote locations
<ogra_> yep
<asac> ogra_: not sure how to do it besides just dropping it and doing some extensive testing with dmorley. but guess we should talk with rsalveti about what impact we expect so we can test that in a focussed manner
<ogra_> davmor2, hey, you are dmorley now :)
<ogra_> seb128, well, i think if we want to have the necessary features by 14.10, it is probably the time to start collecting feature requests so the teams can focus on them in the 14.10 cycle
<seb128> ogra_, sounds good
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> ogra_: welcome back :)
<ogra_> you too
<ogra_> and happy new year !
<davmor2> ogra_: indeed back atcha :)
<rsalveti> ogra_: yeah, it's basically dropping it, testing and checking the impact, specially on maguro
<rsalveti> but true, we should drop it (or try to drop it), asap
<ogra_> yeah
<davmor2> rsalveti, ogra_: what are you dropping on maguro?
<ogra_> my worry is that you will likely only see impact after a while of usage and with a few more apps open over time
<ogra_> nobody really tests that
<rsalveti> davmor2: swap
<ogra_> davmor2, dropping swap all over the place ... maguro has the lowest ram so will show issues first
<davmor2> ogra_: meh
<davmor2> rsalveti, ogra_: was your new years revolution to make my phone as unusable as possible ;)
<bzoltan> olli_:  I have never edited that page. dpm can tell
<rsalveti> davmor2: but we want to drop it to have a better performance (once we fix all the mem related issues)
<davmor2> rsalveti, ogra_: in that case let me know which image it lands in and I'll keep an eye on things that die
<ogra_> ++
<taiebot> Hi everyone i have registered https://bugs.launchpad.net/telephony-service/+bug/1266275 as i am unable to connect to my 3g on my mobile provider (works fine on other phones). I do not know what is wrong with it. I think my apn is not set properly but do not know where the config files are.
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1266275 in telephony-service "impossible to connect to 3g network" [Undecided,New]
<crupie> lads, does someone knows a good tutorial to install it on a Galaxy SII?
<ogra_> crupie, did you check the devices wikipage ?
<ogra_> !devices
<ubot5> You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<crupie> Ive checked the official one  and does not involves Galaxy SII so far
<ogra_> (it should link to xda threads for the different devices)
<crupie> I've tried a few rooms that Ive looked up on google but made the phone amazingly slow
<ogra_> well, contact the maintainer (his launchpad profile should be linked from the devices page too) ... there isnt an official port (official ones are only nexus devices)
<crupie> I see, thank you
<crupie> have you been using it?
<ogra_> actually i have ... but i havent touched my S2 in 6 months now ... so i dont know how the status is
<ogra_> (and back then it only supported the demo images which are just using pretty pictures instead of apps)
<crupie> I hope it will be working great in the new phones that are powerful then S2
<ogra_> ti would work on S2 too if someone put more time into getting the latest stuff to work i guess
<rickspencer3> hey all, good morning ... 2014 already! maybe it's time for me to take Jaunty off of this computer?
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> depends in favour of what :)
<rickspencer3> karmic, I suppose
<ogra_> heh ... replacing EOL with newer EOL ?
<rickspencer3> ogra_, how was your break? fwiw, my phone worked like a champ during the holiday
<ogra_> awesome, mine too !
<ogra_> my break was great, i finally got to write and install that home automation system to control all heatings in the house :)
 * ogra_ will bolog about that soon ... it has a touch app to control each room etc)
<rickspencer3> ogra_, nice!
<davmor2> ogra_, rickspencer3: mine didn't, mtp not working, bluetooth connect but the headset doesn't work, randomly stopping due to the FB dropping a frame and apparent maguro is really slow I find out :)
<rickspencer3> ogra_, please do blog that, I've been interested in doing something like that
<rickspencer3> davmor2, weird
<rickspencer3> everything always breaks for folks in QA I guess
<ogra_> davmor2, heh, i only used my N4 :) maguro is for testing ...
<ogra_> BT is an old bug though
<rickspencer3> N4 ftw!
<davmor2> rickspencer3: Maguro rather than n4
<ogra_> ++
<sergiusens> the maguro is really slower
<ogra_> yup
<ogra_> and i still find it sad that we might drop it before this gets solved
<davmor2> ogra_: no the bt issue got fixed however it exposed and even older issue
<sergiusens> and crash report generation really kills user xp sometimes
<ogra_> totally
<ogra_> there is an apport bug open for this though
<rickspencer3> speaking of perf issues impacting UX, how is libclick coming along, anyone know?
<ogra_> cjwatson might i guess
<cjwatson> not started yet
<cjwatson> planning on it in the next month or two, either that or our upcoming new hire :)
<cjwatson> didn't get to it in December because ppc64el
<ogra_> new hire !
<ogra_> awesome
 * rickspencer3 nods
<rickspencer3> also, hi cjwatson happy new year ;)
<cjwatson> hny indeed :)
<davmor2> cjwatson: when you say hire like that I simply hear minion ;)
<xnox> davmor2: that hire is closer to a mini-overlord, than a minion =)
<davmor2> xnox: haha
<atya> hi all
<atya> how can I add all of my contacts from cvs to contacts? the way, what I found in some webpage (here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes#Contacts) isn't works anymore (14.10 build 79)
<jdstrand> happy new year :)
<ogra_> same to you
<jdstrand> mhall119: hey, what is the correct to channel to ask a question about how to do something in qml?
<jdstrand> ogra_: thanks! :)
<ogra_> jdstrand, #ubuntu-app-devel
<jdstrand> cool
<cwayne> hmm, lp:autopilot seems to be out of date?
<ogra_> cwayne, probably on auto-vacation tim end of the week ;)
<ogra_> (and happy new year)
<ogra_> s/tim/til/
<cwayne> ogra_, happy new year :)
<taiebot> I have investigated more and it seems that my apn is not set. Even when i modified mobile-provider-info did i do something wrong?  g_ril_request_setup_data_call: invalid apn length: 0
<taiebot> Jan  6 08:13:54 ubuntu-phablet ofonod[1861]: Couldn't build SETUP_DATA_CALL request.
<ogra_> taiebot, what device ?
<taiebot> nexus 4
<ogra_> weird, works fine here
<taiebot> i think it might be related to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ofono/+bug/1222106
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1222106 in ofono (Ubuntu) "ofono is picking the wrong APN settings" [Undecided,Fix released]
<ogra_> i thought that was solved long ago
<taiebot> i have a cheap mobile provider (vectone) and is not present on that list or now UT is using something else?
<ogra_> you would have to wait for awe to answer that
<sergiusens> taiebot, do you have the full info for your APN?
<taiebot> well on their website they only give the instructions for android and ios and you just need to set webuk.mundio.com in the apn settings
<taiebot> learned on ofono this morning trying things out (did not find any doc) but i do not know where they read the apn for other providers. I do think its /usr/share/mobile-provider-info but i could be wrong
<mhall119> Wellark: got a minute for a HUD question?
<mhr3> mhall119, national holiday in finland
<sergiusens> taiebot, that's correct
<mhall119> what? we just had 2 weeks of holiday
<sergiusens> taiebot, https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/NetworkManager/MobileBroadband/ServiceProviders
<davmor2> mhall119: some of us had more :P
<ogra_> heh, 2 weeks ... pfft
<davmor2> mhall119: some of us even have some days left from last year that they need to take :)
<ogra_> ++
<taiebot> sergiusens: thanks glad i had it correct. But still does not  work  maybe there is some parameters that i am missing our i have rw problems.
<nexus> hii eveerybody
<nexus> i have a question
<Guest61953> can anybody help me?
<mhall119> bfiller: ping about infographics API, is that something we can promote for app developers to use?
<ogra_> Guest61953, how would we know ?
<Guest61953> firstly i have nexus 4
<Guest61953> i m using multirom app
<Guest61953> and i have miui and ubuntu touch
<bfiller> mhall119: not sure, need to check into that
<Guest61953> i have a problem with ubuntu cant connect internet which is protected like a individual password,
<Guest61953> when i boot with miui it can connect
<Guest61953> but when i try ubuntu it cant
<Guest61953> on the other hand ubuntu can connect other wifi
<Guest61953> i need ideas
<mhall119> bfiller: if you could and get back to me, nik90 has written a tutorial for it that I'd like to publish to developer.ubuntu.com
<taiebot> Guest61953: Did it happen on your first connection to this wifi?
<Guest61953> i can explain like that;
<Guest61953> i m connected now but on my friend phone
<Guest61953> on tethering
<Guest61953> it works fine
<ogra_> Guest61953, i think there were wlan bugs in multirom, ask Tassadar_ about it (it is nothing we support officially, but he is the maintainer)
<Guest61953> but when i connect to wifi which is protected like individual password, it is open wifi but u have to connect ur identify
<Guest61953> i cant connect
<Tassadar_> if he can see the wifi-networks (i.e. the radio is working) then it should be all fine
<Tassadar_> nick Tassadar
<Guest61953> yeah there is no problem with radio
<Guest61953> i m sure
<davmor2> Guest61953: Are you sure you typed the password for the wifi in correctly?
<Guest61953> maybe problem is in this point, but it is open wifi
<Guest61953> when u connect wifi in miui, phone asking ur username and password
<Guest61953> but in ubuntu it doesnt
<Guest61953> you cant enter to wifi interface to enter ur username and password
<ogra_> username and password ?
<Guest61953> imagine that;
 * ogra_ has never seen any wifi using something like that ... 
<Guest61953> you are connecting open wifi
<Guest61953> but you have a account
<Tassadar> isn't it page in web browser that asks you for username/password?
<Guest61953> to surf on internet
<taiebot> Have you open the webbrowser app?
<Guest61953> yeah i have
<ogra_> oh, some web proxy thingie that asks for user/pass
<taiebot> Does it flash an error or a blank sreen?
<Guest61953> it is giving "network error"
<cyphermox> Guest61953: jsut go open some other page in the browser, like www.google.com or something
<cyphermox> probably www.ubuntu.com isn't in the captive portal's poor understanding of the webs
<Guest61953> i tried to open new page same here
<davmor2> ogra_: so it's a connection like you would get at a pub I guess, open network but you sign up for an account and then you get a user and password to connect in future
<ogra_> davmor2, yeah, got that now
<Guest61953> yeah ogra_
<cyphermox> Guest61953: but have you entered a URL?
<ogra_> sounded like some piece f the wlan settings as he described it
<ogra_> but thats totally unrelated
<ogra_> just a blocking proxy that doesnt seem to understand our browser
<Guest61953> i have a account but it didnt ask to me
<cyphermox> Guest61953: in the browser, when you click new page, have you entered a different address or have you just let it load?
<Guest61953> yeah when i was connecting in other place it connected to google
<Guest61953> but i tried now it doesnt
<cyphermox> ogra_: davmor2: is there a way to change the default page?
<ogra_> cyphermox, i fear not without hacking the QMl
<cyphermox> yuck
<ogra_> i think it is hardcoded atm
<Guest61953> which one is u suggest saucy or trusty*
<Guest61953> ?
<cyphermox> Guest61953: so, what you might be able to do is restart your phone, then instead of clicking on the browser when you are connected, click on GMail. Some captive portals aren't very friendly and just give you one or two attempts to load up some known page to get to sign up
<sergiusens> I had a login issue on wifi a while back, ssl certs weren't valid and there wan't a way to override that
<cwayne> who works on bluetooth?
<cyphermox> cwayne: I do, usually\
<davmor2> cwayne: don't look at cyphermox  honest nothing to do with him
<cwayne> lol thanks davmor2
<ogra_> cwayne, charles_ doe the UI side of things iirc
<ogra_> *does
<cwayne> cyphermox, do we just hardcode the device name as ubuntu-phablet-0?
<cyphermox> no, it should be in /etc/bluetooth/main.conf, IIRC
<davmor2> cwayne: that's the way it seems to work on the desktop
<davmor2> cyphermox: ^
<cyphermox> no, even gnome-blouetooth should honor what bluez says
<Guest61953> everybody thanks
<Guest61953> i solve problem
<cyphermox> Guest61953: how so?
<Guest61953> it is so simple, dont be angry to me :) firstly i change to miui and i connect wifi interface and disconnect to connection
<Guest61953> boot ubuntu touch and it show me automaticly to username page
<Guest61953> :)
<Guest61953> thanks to everybody
<Guest61953> can i ask a little question too?
<xnox> Guest61953: typically on irc one address the group like so: "Hello! I am trying to do this and that, using this and that, my problem is thus, and i get this error. Full error messages at http://paste.ubuntu.com . Please help"
<xnox> Guest61953: eventually somebody will read your message and rely =)
<xnox> Guest61953: so just ask away, on any channel/project ! ;-)
<Guest61953> which one is your prefer saucy or trausy version of ubuntu touch?
<ogra_> trusty ... saucy was still very young when it was released. trusty is far more featureful (and i would also say more stable)
<xnox> Guest61953: trusty is the current in-development and in-testing version, with many updates and features. saucy is declared stable at this point and does not receive any feature updates.
<Guest61953> everybody says saucy is stable but i think that not smooth on nexus 4
<xnox> Guest61953: if you want something that _will not change ever_ choose saucy, if you want to get new apps, functionality, fixes, etc.
<Guest61953> i want to know about hardware issue
<Guest61953> is it damage to device?
<xnox> Guest61953: well "stable" as in the updates-channel called "stable" currently is an alias to "saucy" =) it was planned to change "stable" alias to "trusty" before christmas.
<Guest61953> maybe a noop question sorry :)
<xnox> Guest61953: there are no known hardware issues per-se with nexus devices, most of the bugs seen are actually software bugs (at times from very hard kernel bugs, at times high level programming mistakes in Qml/Css/html)
<kaimast> hi all. is there an easy way to diff two branches in bzr?
<Guest61953> i will go on with trusty
<Guest61953> everybody thank you  really thanks
<kaimast> maybe kenvandine knows how to help me? ;)
<ogra_> kaimast, "bzr missing" perhaps
<kaimast> orga_ i found that too. it only shows a list of commits. i would like to see a diff file by file.
<kaimast> guess i can extract that from bzr missing somehow though
<gatox> mardy, are you still on vacations?
<gatox> seb128, can you re review this? https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntu-system-settings/click-updates/+merge/195729
<kaimast> okay don't need help anymore found the problem. thanks anyways
<seb128> gatox, it's on my list, but I'm just back from holidays today and I'm catching up on backlog/email/etc first, then tackling the queue
<gatox> seb128, ack
<mhall119> Kaleo: were you working on an API to detect the presence of a keyboard or mouse?  Something we can use for conditional layouts
<Robby_> Hello?
<Robby_> Trying to get some information on installing Ubuntu on a mobile device.
<bfiller> sergiusens: does the Android dual-boot app support trusty-proposed for a channel? only option it gave me was trusty
<cwayne> bfiller, it does, there's like a popup selection
<sergiusens> bfiller, I have no idea on the dual boot app
<pmcgowan> bfiller, I dont think it supports updating at all yet
<bfiller> cwayne: only thing that showed up was trusyt
<cwayne> for reference, ondra's the guy to ask about dualboot stuff bfiller
<ogra_> bfiller, that app is not coming from distro ....
<cwayne> ogra_, it's coming from us, from ondra specifically
<ogra_> yep
<bfiller> cwayne: yup, it works awesome. i love it. was just wondering how I can get it to install from trusty-proposed as I didn't see it in the list
 * ogra_ just meant to say that distro people dont know much about it 
<cwayne> bfiller, i'll look into it, i know i''ve done it before
<cwayne> cjwatson, do you know what package creates the symlink from /etc/timezone to /etc/writable/timezone?  (i seem to remember you being involved here, apologies if i'm asking the wrong guy)
<ogra_> cwayne, i think it is either lxc-android-config or the initramfs stuff
<cwayne> ogra_, ah, thanks, ill take a look
<cwayne> ogra_, the reason is, we'd need /etc/machine-info writable to get the bluetooth name setup easily, and i'm unsure if i should just make it writable, or link it to /etc/writable
<cwayne> any thoughts there?
<mhall119> new app dev video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hhtd2JUBZo&feature=youtu.be
<ogra_> cwayne, sounds sane to do it the same way as /etc/timezone ... but stgraber might better see any possible issues with that
<cjwatson> cwayne: wrong guy :)
<cjwatson> cwayne: (I was involved in drive-by review of the approach but not in the implementation)
<cwayne> ah, apologies then :)
<cjwatson> cwayne: I can tell you now though, making a single file writable is probably a bad idea since it precludes any correct atomic handling of that file, so probably better to link to /etc/writable/
<stgraber> cwayne: what cjwatson said
<cwayne> stgraber, ACK.  i can't seem to find where the link is created though
<stgraber> ogra_: hey, since you're around, did you see the initramfs-tools-ubuntu-touch FTBFS? I tried to workaround it but without much success (well, I replaced an update-initramfs failure by a segfault, not sure what's best)
<ogra_> i faintly remember seeing you talk about it ...
<ogra_> like ... last year ...
<stgraber> :)
<stgraber> ogra_: the only thing I changed was scripts/touch to add trim support so I know I didn't cause the failure, but the massive amount of changes to fakeroot/fakechroot probably did... do you have some cycles to put into getting that thing to build again? (as I'm not very familiar with how you did the packaging for that stuff)
<ogra_> well, my original packaging was re-written in parts by cjwatson ... i'm trying to take a look atm
<stgraber> ok, thanks
<ogra_> did you try to just give it back already ?
<stgraber> 0.65 should probably be reverted, it was an attempt at working around the fakeroot/fakechroot change by installing fakeroot and fakechroot into the chroot. I was hoping that'd fix the problem temporarily but it only caused a segfault instead (and is technically the wrong solution anyway as it'd bloat our initrd)
<cwayne> ah, it seems the symlinks are made in livecd-rootfs
<stgraber> yeah, I tried the build 2-3 times, the segfault isn't racy...
<ogra_> :(
<ogra_> ugh
<ogra_> fakechroot had a giant changeset
<ogra_> (or rather a giant set of bugs it closed)
<ogra_> stgraber, hmm, there was a new fakechroot synced on dec. 25th ... let me try to give it back again to see if that potentially solves it
 * ogra_ hits retry
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/161729647/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-armhf.initramfs-tools-ubuntu-touch_0.65_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ogra_> WHAT ?!?!
<ogra_> stgraber, so the segfault seems gone with the latest fakechroot ... but it tries to copy_exec libfakeroot into the initrd now o_O
<stgraber> ogra_: yeah, that's the behaviour I first had with 0.64 which I tried to workaround with 0.65 by having fakeroot/fakechroot present in the chroot but apparently even that didn't work
<ogra_> well, something seems to install an initramfs hook that calls this
<ogra_> trying a local bbuild now
<ogra_> hmm
<ogra_> stgraber, so it seems fakechroot uses LD_PRELOAD now ... that would explain why everything during initramfs-tools build wants to pull it in
<stgraber> ogra_: yeah, I suspected the ldd output to be the problem there... not sure what the right fix is though
<ogra_> unsetting LD_PRELOAD before running update-initramfs i guess
<stgraber> everything will fail if you do that (or should anyway)
<stgraber> as without LD_PRELOAD you won't be in the fake chroot and won't have fake root privileges
<ogra_> sigh ... so we need to exclude it from copy_exec i guess
<ogra_> thats messy
<stgraber> yeah... I guess that'd involve patching update-initramfs' ldd handler to filter out libfake*
<ogra_> i cant even get ait to build locally atm ... hmpf
<ogra_> lets see if replacing one gross hack with another gross hack helps
<cwayne> ogra_, that's the spirit :P
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> seems to have worked
<ogra_> stgraber, so we now have two empty files in the initrd, but it builds again ... :)
<ogra_> ... at least
<ogra_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools-ubuntu-touch/0.66/+build/5416897
<stgraber> ogra_: nice, didn't think of that specific way around the problem ;)
<stgraber> that should be harmless at least
<cwayne> anyone got a minute for a real quick MR? https://code.launchpad.net/~cwayne18/livecd-rootfs/machine-info-writable/+merge/200557
<mhall119> oh hey, holding Alt brings up the toolbar on SDK apps in the desktop, that's handy
<mhall119> is also displays all of the tab labels
<cwayne> fancy
<sergiusens> bfiller, wasn't the gallery app supposed to crawl into subfolders?
<bfiller> sergiusens: no sure if that ever go implemented but should be doable for sure
<sergiusens> bfiller, great, I'd thought I'd dogfood the gallery on desktop as well
<sergiusens> and vaguely recalled seeing an MR for that
<mhall119> sergiusens: is somebody dogfooding the browser on desktop?
<sergiusens> mhall119, don't know
<sergiusens> mhall119, as soon as the oxide stuff is ready I plan to
<mhall119> cool
<mhall119> I'm dogfooding the coreapps on the desktop now
<sergiusens> mhall119, which ones?
<dkessel> oh... i should do that again, too :) forgot the core apps ppa after reinstalling everything
<sergiusens> mhall119, I would love shorts to move to u1db
<sergiusens> that would make the case for using it on desktop a lot better :-)
<mhall119> sergiusens: me too
<ssweeny> is there any timeline for u1db syncing to land?
<mhall119> sergiusens: it's on the list of things we'd like to add this cycle
<mhall119> ssweeny: for a specific app, or in general/
<mhall119> ?
<ssweeny> mhall119, in general
<dobey> does the qt u1db stuff not have sync support?
<mhall119> kalikiana_: ^^ does u1db syncing work yet?
<ssweeny> i've seen several apps that claim to support "u1db syncing" but it seems they're just using u1db and assuming sync is automatic
<ssweeny> there is a sync element i've seen in some of the example code but it's not in the docs
<dobey> sync is not automatic
<mhall119> dobey: it wasn't initially, the work was focused on implementing the u1db API itself
<sergiusens> mhall119, it would be a good case to require u1 login to install apps though ;-)
<dobey> mhall119: right, but that was like a year ago already :)
<mhall119> sergiusens: I think anybody that still needs convincing on that, isn't likely to be convinced on that
<dobey> sergiusens: u1 login is required to install appsâ¦
<mhall119> dobey: exaggerate a bit there, the phone was only just announced a year go :-P
<sergiusens> dobey, I know, it was` just one more argument for needing it
<mhall119> on that note, wow it's only been a year?  Look at how much we've accomplished
<dobey> mhall119: i mean, wasn't implementing the local u1db API itself done like 6 months ago?
<mhall119> dobey: I think so, there abouts
<ahayzen> me and nik90 have been investigating moving parts of the storage over to U1DB for the music/clock app but we've hit a few blockers atm (as u may have seen in the mailing lists)
<mhall119> your app still need to tell U1DB to sync, it's not automatic, and you need to be able to merge conflicting changes if they happen (edit something on your phone, then on your desktop, then try to sync the 2)
<dobey> indeed
<mhall119> kalikiana_ was working on it, so I'll wait for an update from him
<kalikiana_> mhall119: in principle yes. but I haven't seen it used with a public u1 server
<kalikiana_> the eventual plan would be to make it automatic, but that's not what we have
<mhall119> kalikiana_: but you've tested the implementation to make sure it works?
<dkessel> hmmm. trying to install 'touch-coreapps' from the PPA i have a problem - the metapackage is missing in the 'trusty' series... is there a different way to get the apps on the desktop?
<kalikiana_> mhall119: it does work. the blocker is having qml api and using it. it was tested with basically avoiding that non-existing api
<mhall119> dkessel: I don't know if they're still being auto-built in the PPA, they should all be click packages now
<mhall119> kalikiana_: so there's no way to trigger a sync from QML yet?
<kalikiana_> mhall119: for getting u1 credentials I mean
<mhall119> kalikiana_: ah, we have U1 in Online Accounts now though, can it grab the credentials from there automagically?
<mhall119> I assume OnlineAccounts only supports one U1 account
<ahayzen> kalikiana_, if it became automatic would we still have the option not to sync some dbs?
<mhall119> ahayzen: why wouldn't you?
<kalikiana_> mhall119: it needed a wrapper to support it, I don't know if that is done at this point. it has a not so typical authentication step other stuff doesn't need
<mhall119> kalikiana_: but those steps should all be handled by ubuntu-online-accounts
<ahayzen> mhall119, because we will probably store music data in their, say playlists, but u could have different music in different locations on different devices
<ahayzen> mhall119, we ideally want *some* things to be synced
<mhall119> ahayzen: ah, yes, that age-old problem
<ahayzen> mhall119, unless all our music is synced as well :)
<kalikiana_> ahayzen: yeah, I was looking into that use case for app settings. I am expecting a bool basically - the details of how to get sync working is what I want to get rid of when I say aztomatic really
<ahayzen> kalikiana_, cool
<kalikiana_> so all developers don't have to know exactly about all the details
<ahayzen> ...i heard rumours of a Settings API?
<dkessel> mhall119, thanks - where would i find information on how to get the core apps via click?
<kalikiana_> mhall119: I don't know if online accounts can hide those steps at this point. I simply didn't have time to persistently follow it
<mhall119> bzoltan: I noticed that pressing Alt raises the SDK Toolbar, but is there a way to add additional key bindings to ToolbarButton that would allow them to be triggered via keyboard?
<mhall119> dkessel: for desktop?
<dkessel> mhall119, yes
<kalikiana_> ahayzen: yep. there's a branch https://code.launchpad.net/~kalikiana/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/appsettings/+merge/181304 if you want to check it out. it sort of indirectly hit other missing features so it got delayed a bit
<mhall119> dkessel: there isn't an easy way right now
<ahayzen> kalikiana_, awesome :) i guess tht would be autosynced as well?
<mhall119> kalikiana_: while you're around, and since Wellark isn't, are you aware of the need to add toolbar-item-hint properties to the Actions API so they can bind to the HUD toolbar items?
<kalikiana_> ahayzen: yes. you set sync: true or false. you don't actually need to know that it uses u1db internally but that's what the storage is
<ahayzen> kalikiana_, nice
<kalikiana_> mhall119: I'm hearing that for the first time. is that on the unity actions side or on the ui toolkit side?
<mhall119> kalikiana_: in http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/Ubuntu.Components.Action/ I believe
<mhall119> or maybe add properties for each of those HUD toolbar items to MainView, and let the developer assign an Action to that property instead of adding an item hint to the Action itself
<dobey> kalikiana_: not sure what steps you're talking about for the u1 accountâ¦
<kalikiana_> mhall119: I'm a bit unclear. could it be it's not clear how to use actions in the toolbar?
<kalikiana_> if you put buttons in there they can internally have hud actions at the same time
<kalikiana_> dobey: on how to get credentials for sync. compared to other online accounts u1 needs one more step. I don't know it exactly off head, that's the short version I can still recall
<kalikiana_> it might have been about signing the URL - but I'm not 100% sure
<dobey> kalikiana_: you have to sign the URL with any OAuth-using REST API
<dobey> i don't recall how exactly it's done for u1db, but if you get the credentials from UOA, you should be able to sign the url just fine
<kalikiana_> ultimately yes. the question is if at this point this can be done in qml
<kalikiana_> that's the missing piece for sync
<mhall119> kalikiana_: the HUD itself has a few icons at the bottom, that looks like Settings, Help/About, Back and Fullscreen, but there's no way for an app to bind to those right now, because they require this toolbar-item-hint property in the DBus bindings used to transmit Actions to the HUD
<dobey> kalikiana_: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/ubuntuone-credentials/trunk/view/head:/qml-credentials-service/examples/embeddingMain.qml#L47
<kalikiana_> mhall119: oh. that's best for Wellark to answer then, I don't know about those
<kalikiana_> dobey: thanks! I'm going to give this a try (tomorrow)
<mhall119> ok, I will wait for him to be back from his holiday then
<mhall119> thanks kalikiana_
<kedivess> hi everyone
<kedivess> i would ask if the ubuntu touch trusty channel ,installed via dualboot app in android, is read-only image
<silvarion> Hello
<fishscene> Hi
<silvarion> Good mornign/afternoon/evening
<silvarion> I was checking about Ubuntu Touch, Iá¸¿ interested in making a port for a Motorola Atrix 4G (codename olympus)
<silvarion> I was just wondering if Scott, the contact person in the Wiki page is currently making the port
<fishscene> Did you try contacting him? I see his name listed as the contact person.
<silvarion> I checked his website but under Projects, nothing points to an Ubuntu Touch port
<silvarion> I will send him an email right away
<silvarion> But just wanted to touch here and start getting involved...
<silvarion> If I don get an answer in a couple days, I'll let you know
<fishscene> Good to have you around and interested in working on a port. :)
<silvarion> I just bought an Atrix 4G
<silvarion> Good phone, I'm using CM10, but I'm deeply interested in using Ubuntu on my phone
<barry> thomi: hi!  got a few minutes to chat about autopilot?
<fishscene> A lot of us are interested in using Ubuntu on our phones. You've come to the right place. lol.
<silvarion> I'm kind of new to IRC so, bear with my noobness for now...
<silvarion> Thank you all
<silvarion> I'll keep in touch
<fishscene> Sounds good. People come and go, myself included. So if you have questions, feel free to just ask and hopefully, someone will volunteer to answer.
<silvarion> Good good good!
<silvarion> And, first question would be...  Has anyone tried the standard installation procedure on the Atrix 4G (MB860)?  Any records about it?
<silvarion> And, is there a chance to brick the phone while installing?
<silvarion> I got the Retail SBF and unlocked bootloadr
<kedivess> any idea on my question?
<silvarion> So I can "revive" it without too much pain
<silvarion> kedivess: guess I didn't get your question, what was it?
<kedivess> i would ask if the ubuntu touch trusty channel ,installed via dualboot app in android, is read-only image
<cwayne> kedivess, yes, it should be r/o
<silvarion> No idea here... Sorry
<kedivess> thanks for the answer.....
<kedivess> that's probably why i can't sync google contacts.....
<thomi> barry: I do now, what's up?
<kedivess> any idea for sync google contacts?
<cwayne> kedivess, there should be some info here: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Touch/DailyDriver
<kedivess> thanks <cwayne>
<kedivess> i used the suggested command line....but it gave me errors....no syncing...
<myNameIsMud> anyone good at C++/qt I have a question about making my code faster.  Here it is let me know if you can give me any pointers.   http://paste.ubuntu.com/6706020/
<cwayne> kedivess, what are the errors?
<kedivess> GLib-GObject: g_object_unref: assertion 'G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed
<myNameIsMud> I am going to insert these values into a abstractlistmodel  but want to know if there is a faster way.  aka I m making a JSONListModel  plugin
<myNameIsMud> kedivess: I made a fork of the contacts app that lets end user install from vcard or google via synch evo  if you like I could push the code
<kedivess> yes please....i will try...
<myNameIsMud> But I would re-write it to have a OAUTH  then uses the contacts api
<myNameIsMud> and the JSONListmodel that I am mking
<myNameIsMud> making *
<myNameIsMud> kedivess: it is just qprocess at this time
<myNameIsMud> kedivess: lp:~josephjamesmills/+junk/Needs_model_and_not_qprocess
<myNameIsMud> kedivess: To be honest though I would make it so that when user logs into there OAUTH via accounts it grabs all the contacts then and synchs them.
<kedivess> ok
<myNameIsMud> like this OAuth  -> get token -> getAcessToken -> get Contacts via api -> make to QString from QJsonDocument -> push to synchevolution
<myNameIsMud> https://developers.google.com/google-apps/contacts/v3/?csw=1#retrieving_all_contacts   << api
<myNameIsMud> all in all  user opens contact app,  looks to see if there is any contacts if false add button that lets user get contacts.  they click and it opens up the accouts settings and makes them login into Google or just puth the OAUTH in your addrress-book-app
<myNameIsMud> also of course have a button on the bottom(toolbar) that lets users open up other source (yahoo, hotmail whatever )
<myNameIsMud> But can anyone look at my code please loll
<myNameIsMud> Please :)
<thomi> sergiusens: do you know anything about upstart-app-launch, and how to enable testability with it?
<sergiusens> thomi, that's tedg or charles' baby
<sergiusens> thomi, you are not talking about autopilot here I suppose
<thomi> sergiusens: well, I am
<sergiusens> thomi, ah, well, we use that for click apps already
<thomi> sergiusens: I need to support launching apps through upstart-app-launch from within AP
<thomi> sergiusens: uhh... we do?
<sergiusens> thomi, well the upstart job using upstart-app-launch
<thomi> sergiusens: OK, so can I just do the 'set-env' step, then call 'upstart-app-launch' and expect the environm,ent variable to be set?
<sergiusens> thomi, hmm, let me double check
<sergiusens> thomi, sounds reasonable, all the job does is exec /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/upstart-app-launch/exec-line-exec
<thomi> sergiusens: ok, thanks, I'll give that a try
#ubuntu-touch 2014-01-07
<silvarion> Leaving for today, thank you all and a late Happy New Year!!!
<user82> will there be any ubuntu touch related action at ces this year?
<thomi> charles: Are you around?
<Jack> hello
<Guest91875> is there anyone who can help me
<singoc> h
<singoc> hi
<lucious77_> hi, anyone knows why in applications/installed section I can only see 9 apps? perhaps I should clean/flush some data? nexus 4
<oSoMoN> good morning
<dholbach> good morning
<tvoss> mzanetti, ping
<tvoss> dholbach, good morning :)
<dholbach> hey tvoss
<dholbach> how's life over there?
<tvoss> dholbach, pretty good, thanks :) how about you?
<dholbach> doing very well :)
<pitti> dholbach, tvoss: guten Morgen, gesundes Neues!
<dholbach> hey pitti - and the same to you :)
<tvoss> pitti, Dir auch :)
<tvoss> pitti, https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/qtubuntu-sensors/fix-accelerometer-and-orientation-sensor/+merge/200634
<didrocks> gesundes Neues pitti, dholbach! :)
<pitti> tvoss: ah, nice cleanup; that also drops the .symbols file (but still installs the lib, right?)
 * dholbach hugs you all
<pitti> hey didrocks, heureuse nouvelle annÃ©e !
<tvoss> pitti, it's not quite ready yet, will set it to in-progress
<pitti> tvoss: that's a prereq for the cmake conversion?
<tvoss> pitti, kind of :) I will fold the cmake transition in there. I just wanted to make sure we have a working baseline before we transition
<tvoss> pitti, the lib is completely dropped and removed btw
<pitti> neat
<pitti> tvoss: so the platform-api sensor test branch hasn't been reviewed any more last year, I'll try to nag ricmm|sick once he's back
<tvoss> pitti, ack
<mzanetti> tvoss: pong
<ubuntu-user> Hello world! How to install Ubuntu Touch to Sony Xperia E?
<alf_> Hi! I am installing the latest touch image on a Nexus 10 (with Android 4.4.2). Installation seems to be complete, but I am prompted with "ROM may flash stock recovery on boot. Fix?" on the Nexus 10. Should I disable recovery flash, or is it this part of the installation process?
<handydandy> has anybody successfully booted into Ubuntu touch on the e970 optimus G?
<ubuntu-user> There are people who have successfully installed ubuntu touch os on Sony Xperia E? Tell me how.
<ubuntu-user> Please!
<chrisccoulson> if i call QGuiApplication::platformName() on ubuntu touch, what should I expect to get? (it's not going to be "xcb", is it?)
<mandel> didrocks, I'm planning on adding a few new packages for ubuntu download manager related to the work of providing a client library, I would really appreciate if you can tell me, 1( is there ayone I have to talk to get them in universe. 2)take a look at the inline packging I've done (I'm not a packaging expert)
<didrocks> mandel: is those new source packages or binary packages attached to an existing source package?
<mandel> didrocks, new binary packages that are in the same tree
<didrocks> mandel: ok, so for 1) it's just filing a new landing ask and I'll look at them (so 2)) once you will have filed it :)
<didrocks> mandel: please just remind us in the landing ask that you included new binaries
<mandel> didrocks, ok, I'll be adding them one by one to minimize the chance of breaking stuff, does that sound good?
<didrocks> mandel: hum, if you have a transition to achieve, it's better to just add them all once ready
<mandel> didrocks, ok, for me is the same because I have splitted the transition in several branches to minimize each of the reviews and tested them as independent units. I'm more concern of what is better for your side :)
<didrocks> mandel: yeah, better to see the whole transition to ensure we don't miss anything for us :)
<mandel> didrocks, ok, then I'll do that, thx for the info!
<didrocks> yw! thanks for asking in advance :)
<chrisccoulson> NM, I answered my own question in the end ;)
<davmor2> Morning all
<tvoss> pitti, refactored directory structure in https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/qtubuntu-sensors/fix-accelerometer-and-orientation-sensor/+merge/200634
<tvoss> pitti, I will add the QtLocation plugin in there, too
<user82> hi. any ubuntu touch related news this year at CES?
<davmor2> user82: tune into CES and find out?
<user82> davmor2, no real time for that. but is there a list which companies are present?
<davmor2> user82: on the ces.org site I think
<user82> ah found it. it was a little hidden
<user82> nope, no canonical
<ogra_> there are plenty canonical people running around there though ... just no booth
<dholbach> tvoss, do you have any idea if anyone's looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/platform-api/+bug/1261935?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1261935 in platform-api "platform-api needs a non-NULL Desktop sensor implementation" [Undecided,New]
<tvoss> dholbach, there is a branch up that pitti did, iirc
<dholbach> ah, it'd be great if that could be linked
<pitti> ah, I wasn't aware of that bug
<pitti> dholbach: I created https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/platform-api/test-backend/+merge/198098 for adding a "simulated sensor" backend
<dholbach> pitti, great
<pitti> dholbach: updated the bug
<dholbach> ricmm|sick, rsalveti: do you know who could take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~bregma/qtubuntu/lp-1246851/+merge/198309?
 * dholbach hugs pitti and tvoss
<pitti> didrocks: can we please land autopilot-gtk? it's not on the actual touch images, but blocks ubiquity automated testing
<rsalveti> dholbach: either ricmm|sick or loicm
<dholbach> rsalveti, awesome, thanks
<didrocks> pitti: sure, just put in the landing ask, but we have no-one able to land that right now (sil2100 isn't around, not sure whyâ¦), so the list is quite big. Tomorrow morning would be ok?
<dholbach> loicm, ^ we were just talking about https://code.launchpad.net/~bregma/qtubuntu/lp-1246851/+merge/198309 and who could review it
<pitti> didrocks: I still can't access the landing ask (which is why I was happier about using bugs)..
<pitti> didrocks: yes, tomorrow is certainly sufficient
<pitti> . o O { I could just dput the damn thing... }
<didrocks> pitti: you should be :)
<didrocks> pitti: able to add
<didrocks> pitti: well, dput without running AP tests? ;)
<pitti> didrocks: how do you mean? ap-gtk's AP tests are run during package builld
<didrocks> pitti: you are lucky, it's not the case of all packages here ;)
<pitti> didrocks: s/lucky/I did that work to ensure I don't break anything/ :-)
<pitti> didrocks: it only changes a g_warning into a g_debug and adds a test case, i. e. no API changes or anything
<pitti> didrocks: and the tests already ran in the MPs, too (for ARM coverage etc.)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, the thing is that if you dput, you have to merge back the changelog for further daily releases
<asac> pitti: you can now access the landing pipeline
<dholbach> charles, thanks a lot for merging the upstart-app-launch bits
<pitti> didrocks, asac: so how does this work? I add myself to #235? is that FIFO, or can easy ones be fast-tracked?
<didrocks> pitti: it's not FIFO is based on the comment and risk
<didrocks> so it will be fast-tracket
<didrocks> tracked*
<asac> right. its a mix of reputation, risk etc. :)
<pitti> didrocks: added; what should "status" be?
<didrocks> pitti: you can add something like "ready to land" if it's all in trunk
<loicm> dholbach: I'd prefer ricmm|sick to have a look at it since it's a packaging fix, not sure he's available though
<pitti> didrocks: yes; is there ever a different case than "please upload current trunk"?
<dholbach> loicm, ok, thanks
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, people add it there even if it's not merged
<asac> pitti: sometimes people try to land non-existant stuff, yes :)
<didrocks> pitti: or even not tested
<dholbach> charles, do you know if upstart-app-launch is scheduled to be landed on the image some time soon?
<asac> land-my-dream-please
<pitti> asac, didrocks: that doesn't sound useful
<didrocks> pitti: it's clearly notâ¦
<pitti> asac, didrocks: anyway, thanks (and, FTR, ugh..)
<asac> pitti: so one key reason why this spreadsheet is useful is taht its a clearing area where we work with the upstream folks to figure what they really need to land
<asac> it might feel simple, but in practice if you are not a distro engineer it seems its not straight forward what it means to deliver a complete thing
<asac> however, i think we succeeded in educating folks so those cases are less often now
<didrocks> asac: for instance, if you look at the line just before yours, it's an example :p
<didrocks> pitti: I meant for you ^
<pitti> so that's to notify you that tvoss will soom propose his branch for merging, for early impact assessment?
<pitti> that seems a bit overzealous from my POV, given that this doesn't need any coordination with other packages
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I don't think we need that information before the "it's ready" apart from the "very big impact change" (like incoming Mir)
<asac> pitti: before getting too used to this old approach, check the mail and deck i sent to list earlier today :)
<pitti> asac: to me, the old approach was to upload it :)
<pitti> asac: ah, I followed the discussion with robru about moving to bugs in December, but I haven't seen your's from today
<asac> you are getting old... thats the "ancient" approach :) ... lol
<asac> tvoss: your "fix accelleration" branch is not ready for merging yet?
<asac> or could we use that in theory as an example to play through the new landing appraoch?
<tvoss> asac, we can land it
<tvoss> pitti, I proposed it and Mirv already approved
<tvoss> asac, ^
<asac> didrocks: ^^ so we could try this one
<asac> otherwise lets go for your trunk-cheat of system-settings.
<didrocks> asac: well, qtubuntu-sensors has already something in
<didrocks> trunk
<tvoss> didrocks, ?
<asac> didrocks: oh ic
<didrocks> tvoss: trunk != package in distro
<tvoss> didrocks, ah
<asac> tvoss: we need something with trunk == distro ... for the sake of making an example
<tvoss> asac, hmmm ...
<Laney> translations make that hard
<asac> didrocks: just the symbols commit?
<asac> oh... seems tvoss merged his branch now
<didrocks> asac: rev 41 and now 42
<tvoss> asac, jenkins merged
<Laney> otherwise: try ubuntu-wallpapers
<didrocks> Laney: well, translations all over the place
<didrocks> asac: automatic launchpad translations in trunk will be an issue I guess
<Laney> yes, that's what I just said :-)
<Laney> if you need really really equal it's tough
<asac> didrocks: we probably want to work with fginther etc. to adjust the bot to only comment (and not merge)
<asac> for the roll out
<didrocks> asac: right, but that's not the translation thing :)
<asac> didrocks: i dont understand the translation problem
<didrocks> asac: well, look at system settings or ubuntu-wallpaper
<asac> didrocks: does launchpad automatically commit directly to trunk?
<didrocks> asac: yep
<didrocks> in fact, you setup a branch for it to commit to (and take the translations)
 * asac wonders who would want that :)
<Laney> why wouldn't you?
<asac> didrocks: right. so they could have a branch != trunk (like translation-submissions)
<asac> Laney: dunno. you might not like the timing  :)
<chrisccoulson> when is the qt5.2 stack likely to land in trusty?
<dholbach> tvoss, seems like pitti's branch does not quite address bregma_'s problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/platform-api/+bug/1261935
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1261935 in platform-api "platform-api needs a non-NULL Desktop sensor implementation" [Undecided,New]
<didrocks> asac: yeah, and so, the translation will never land
<Laney> I can't really imagine translations getting in the way in reality
<seb128> chrisccoulson, Mirv is working on it, they still have issue ... maybe ping him directly
<asac> like you want to tag a release and suddenly your trunk gets flyushed with new stuff that invalidates part or all of your validation
<chrisccoulson> seb128, thanks. Mirv? ^^ :)
<seb128> asac, you really don't want to have to worry about translations, that's just the translators' job
<didrocks> asac: the current system will just posptpone it until someone branch from trunk with a new branch anyway
<didrocks> well current == new
<asac> didrocks: i would think having translations auto submitted as MP might be the right answer
<asac> but... :)
<asac> let me know what you want to do
<didrocks> asac: well, we can ignore it right now, it will just be "next time you land a branch based from trunk"
<tvoss> dholbach, it solves the immediate problem, though.
<tvoss> dholbach, I would propose that we open another bug that reads like: "Provide functional sensor backend for Desktop"
<tvoss> bregma_, ^, fine with you?
<dholbach> tvoss, bregma_: I'll leave you guys to it - I just wanted to bring it up as it was part of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1404-unity8-on-desktop :)
<bregma_> I already worked around the immediate problem and just opened the bug so the missing requirement did not get lost: if you want to repurpose the bug for something else and open a new one for the original problem, it's up to you
<ricmm> dholbach: I'll review that one
<ricmm> looks straightforward
 * dholbach hugs ricmm
<dholbach> thanks a bunch
<dholbach> and happy new year :)
<j-b> Any idea how to reset my N4 to factory after a fail install?
<Zampson> Hey trying to sync contacts with syncevolution and I keep getting returned "transport problem: transport failed, retry period exceeded". Any thoughts?
<Zampson> ok turns out I'm on a read-only image. Cancel that
<ogra_> it should only write to the current users db
<ogra_> (which is rw)
<asac> didrocks: ok great if our system doesnt blow up because of accidential trnaslation landings
<didrocks> asac: yeah, I have an idea even to represent it in the changelog
<ogra_> we have accidential translations ?
<didrocks> need to take a break and implement
<asac> ogra_: yeah, seems that translations get auto injected by launchpad in trunks without peer/merge review
<ogra_> injected ?
<ogra_> i know they get extracted on package build
 * ogra_ wasnt aware they also get injected
<cwayne> mterry, ping, any update on welcome wizard? :)
<cwayne> sforshee, ping, is powerd customizable in any way?
<mterry> cwayne, not really.  A half-finished version has been very slowly being merged into system-settings trunk.  Cimi and I will continue working on it once it's in trunk.  Cimi, have you been working on any branches for it?
<cwayne> mterry, ah, thanks.  still on track for 14.04?
<mterry> cwayne, uh...  I hope so.
<cwayne> me too
<mterry> Cimi, how much time do you think you can allocate to wlecome wizard this cycle?
<Cimi> mterry, as much as kgunn wants
<kgunn> Cimi: mterry ...we're pretty close to done with "option2" as i recall ?
<kgunn> i'd advocate landing that asap
<sforshee> cwayne: I have an open merge request for controlling backlight stuff, but other than that not really
<sforshee> cwayne: wait, are you thinking from a user preferences perspective or a porting perspective?
<cwayne> sforshee, is that something that's on our roadmap at all?  the thinking here is a HW partner could come in and want different default settings/behaviors
<sforshee> cwayne: well from the porting perspective there's a few things that powerd reads from an xml file that comes from android, so that specifies what device to use for the backlight, whether or not autobrightness is supported, the exact lux/brightness pairs for generating the autobrightness curve, and a few other things
<mterry> Cimi, if you can spend time to close the wizard functionality gaps, it would be swell
<mterry> Cimi, also
<cwayne> sforshee, where does that xml file live?
<mterry> Cimi, one thing that the current design doesn't take into account, but cwayne is really going to want is the ability to dynamically add pages into the flow (like OEMs can drop a qml file or two somewhere and have it be inserted).  We haven't worried about that too much yet, but maybe have that rattling around in your brain.  We'll need that eventually
<sforshee> cwayne: for us in /usr/share/powerd/device_configs
<sforshee> cwayne: the brightness control stuff is intended for unity to use to change user settings - {en,dis}able autobrightness, change brightness, stuff like that
<mterry> ricmm, did that fixed libhybris ever land?
<sforshee> cwayne: unity is supposed to take over the inactivity timeout from powerd, so that shouldn't need to be customizable within powerd
<stgraber> rsalveti, xnox: does any of you plan on getting a new snapshot of android in the archive soonish? I pushed a dataloss fix 2-3 weeks ago that we probably want to pick up soonish.
<stgraber> (the bug is basically that if you do a factory reset your whole system gets removed too)
<sforshee> cwayne: those are the only things I can think of that would be configurable at all
<cwayne> sforshee, what about stuff like default brightness, and time before screen turns itself off?
<sforshee> cwayne: the former is in the xml file, the latter is what I meant when I said "inactivity timeout"
<cwayne> sforshee, oops, i'd missed your last message, sorry about that
<sforshee> cwayne: oops, the xml file doesn't say which device is the backlight, that's done via the HAL. It does specify the range of valid brightness values.
<Cimi> mterry, I will to both
<ricmm> mterry: I dont know
<cwayne> sforshee, how invasive of a change would it be for powerd to take that from anywhere in XDG_DATA_DIRS instead of just /usr/share?
<ricmm> rsalveti: did we ever get a umask patch in libhybris for shm access?
<mterry> ricmm, did it land in trunk?
<sforshee> cwayne: probably not too bad, but you'll need to talk to phonedations as they maintain powerd now
<cwayne> pitti, hi, i seem to remember you setting up the /etc/writable stuff for all the timezone stuff, i'm looking to do something similar for /etc/machine-info (to set the pretty hostname to the adb device to get a sane default BT name), does this MR make sense? https://code.launchpad.net/~cwayne18/livecd-rootfs/machine-info-writable/+merge/200557
<ricmm> mterry: just asked rsalveti, he will know better
<cwayne> sforshee, ack, thanks for the pointer :)
<ricmm> if not, we will land something asap
<sforshee> cwayne: np
<sforshee> cwayne: just to emphasize one point, powerd isn't using anything from the xml file that android doesn't also use, so any device which has been ported to android should already have an xml file that powerd can use
<cwayne> sforshee, ah, that's a good point..
<ricmm> dholbach: approved, will make sure it lands
<dholbach> ricmm, that's awesome! :-D
<xnox> stgraber: is current android de-bin-NEWed ? =)
<xnox> stgraber: there is a package split in progress.
<stgraber> xnox: ah, I'll take a look then
<stgraber> xnox: accepted (though it's not a new git export so still won't have my fix...)
<cwayne> dpm, hey, can we get a call to the community for those translations soon? :)
<pitti> cwayne: what is /etc/machine-info? does that only exist on touch?
<pitti> cwayne: oh, from hostnamed
<cwayne> pitti, yeah, i'm not sure where else it's used, but its used by hostnamed to hold the PRETTY_HOSTNAME
<xnox> stgraber: well all i cared about is deNEWing and this was a convenient way to trick you into doing it ;-) i'm not in touch with android package landing ETA. I was under impression that switch to 4.4 branches is eminent, but maybe that isn't the case and still "in-progress".
<pitti> cwayne: did you test hostnamectl with that symlink? I had to patch timedated for the localtime symlinks
<dpm> cwayne, now that I'm back, indeed! I'll put aside some time tomorrow morning to check everything out and put together a call for translations in the afternoon
<cwayne> dpm, great!  i'll do another round of testing now that we've fixed a bunch of stuff since i last did it :)
<cwayne> pitti, hm, i'll try it out now
<pitti> cwayne: I followed up to the MP
<dpm> cwayne, sounds great, thanks!
<rsalveti> stgraber: we can upload a new package today if you need
<rsalveti> we don't have anything pending, so feel free to grab the latest exported tarball
<cwayne> pitti, thanks, seems it doesn't quite work, hadn't thought of that
<pitti> cwayne: unfortunately this symlinking stuff is a ridiculous hack, to get along with the hack that readonly-root is :(
<pitti> cwayne: ISTR that you need to change three places; hostnamed itself, then what you did for livecd-rootfs, and something else
<cwayne> pitti, yeah, i was doing it this way to avoid having to patch too much stuff, perhaps i should just go a different way :)
<pitti> cwayne: ah, I think the third was some  generic change to whatever provides teh "writable paths", so you don't need to touch that
<cwayne> right, lxc-android-config
<pitti> ah, that was it
<cwayne> yeah.. do you happen to remember the change you did to timedated?
<pitti> cwayne: I was thinking about http://launchpadlibrarian.net/151914519/lxc-android-config_0.103_0.104.diff.gz
<pitti> cwayne: yes, they are in debian/patches/support-phablet-etc-writable.patch
<pitti> cwayne: you can probably just copy&paste writable_filename() and use it in all places that access /etc/hostname-info
<cwayne> yeah, i remember the lxc-android-config MP, i did it this way just to piggyback on that change :)
<rsalveti> ricmm: no, afaik you were testing a better approach first
<rsalveti> ricmm: if not, we can try to get something in place
<ricmm> rsalveti: ok I dont have a better approach in mind atm, I'd say just umask down/up when creating that shm file
<rsalveti> ricmm: kind of scary, but yeah
<cwayne> is there an upstart job that runs only on first boot?
<kenvandine> Saviq, you had marked bug 1241185 as fixed, but i'm not convinced that commit really fixed that bug
<ubot5> bug 1241185 in unity-mir (Ubuntu) "Should provide policy based lifecycle exceptions" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241185
<kenvandine> the bug was about not hard coding apps that get exceptions
<Saviq> kenvandine, right, I did an automagic mark as the bot did mark it fix committed before
<kenvandine> we should have a way to give panpipe a lifecycle exception
<kenvandine> Saviq, so we still can't do that right?
<m-b-o> balloons: ping
<balloons> m-b-o, pong
<Saviq> kenvandine, indeed we can't, and I'm not sure where such an exception should live, AFAIK we don't really want to give out such exceptions
<Saviq> kenvandine, what's panpipe?
<kenvandine> pandora app
<kenvandine> so plays music
<kenvandine> we should have a way for an app to request an exception
<Saviq> kenvandine, right, for that ideally it would use the media service
<Saviq> kenvandine, tvoss ââ fight!
<cwayne> seb128, is there any plans in system-settings to allow the user to change the bluetooth device name?
<kenvandine> we just need some solution :)
 * kenvandine re-opens bug... you guys can move it to another project if needed
<j-b> \o/ Finally DualBooted
<Saviq> kenvandine, so for music playback, if possible, it should use the (to be) media service
<tvoss> j-b, hey here, sounds like success :)
<seb128> cwayne, it's not in the design (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bluetooth#phone)
<kenvandine> Saviq, is that something it could use now?
<j-b> tvoss: I had encrypted my phone, so it was a complete mess
<Saviq> kenvandine, not yet
<cwayne> seb128, good enough for me, thanks
<tvoss> kenvandine, nope
<seb128> cwayne, yw
<Saviq> kenvandine, but anyway - when it can't (DRM / ToS / whatever) that's what we don't have a solution for yet
<kenvandine> tvoss, Saviq: can one of you comment on that bug explaining that?
<tvoss> kenvandine, sure
<kenvandine> just so the developer knows what the right solution is, even if it isn't doable now
<Saviq> kenvandine, reopened it for unity-mir, can't for unity-mir (ubuntu)
<kenvandine> he'll understand
<kenvandine> Saviq, i did the ubuntu bug
<Saviq> kenvandine, cheers
<kenvandine> thx guys
<m-b-o> balloons: do I have to need autopilot > 1.4 for testing?
<Saviq> tvoss, on that note, you pang yesterday, and never followed up?
<balloons> m-b-o, as a depends or ? Yes, ap 1.4
<m-b-o> balloons: Cannot get it to run on saucy
<tvoss> Saviq, hang on, quickly finishing the reply to the bug report
<balloons> m-b-o, using autopilot 1.4x?
<Saviq> tvoss, no worries, I'm EOD really anyway...
<m-b-o> balloon: from the autopilot ppa, yes
<m-b-o> balloons: by installing python-autopilot from ppa:autopilot/ppa there's a conflict
<popey> kenvandine: we have about 5 music apps which could benefit from this. Way to go blazing a trail dude! :D
<kenvandine> :)
<m-b-o> balloons: wants libautopilot-qt (>= 1.4), but only 1.3+13.10.20130814bzr70saucy0 is available
<kenvandine> i really want panpipe to be usable... pandora is something i used everyday on android... i really miss it now
<kenvandine> it works great... until it suspends :)
<kenvandine> so basically useless :)
<cwayne> kenvandine, just write an autopilot test that loops around and clicks random stuff indefinitely so it doesn't suspend :P
<kenvandine> haha
<popey> or make the app shell out to "service stop powerd" â»
<popey> (don't do that)
<balloons_> m-b-o, sorry timed out
<m-b-o> balloons: libautopilot-qt >=1.4 is missing in saucy, when installing python-autopilot from the ppa
<balloons_> m-b-o, kk, let me look
<balloons_> m-b-o, indeed you are correct, heh
<balloons> m-b-o, so anyways, let's just file a bug to get it fixed. if you need to get it corrected now, let me link you to the deb
<balloons> http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu/pool/universe/a/autopilot-qt/libautopilot-qt_1.4+14.04.20131106.1-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<balloons> m-b-o, ^^
<m-b-o> balloons: great, thank you! now it works again :)
<m-b-o> balloons: https://bugs.launchpad.net/autopilot-qt/+bug/1266864
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1266864 in Autopilot Qt Support "libautopilot-qt >= 1.4 is missing in saucy" [Undecided,New]
<cwayne> cyphermox, hiya, any chance for a quick MR? https://code.launchpad.net/~cwayne18/ubuntu/trusty/bluetooth-touch/bluetooth-touch_lp1266859/+merge/200699
<cyphermox> cwayne: thanks, testing now
<heathbar> Hi Ubuntu-Touch Gurus... Where can I checkout the code for the system camera app?
<cwayne> heathbar, bzr branch lp:camera-app
<balloons> so, http://humpolec.ubuntu.com/latest/dualboot.sh is missing, and is referred to by https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/DualBootInstallation
<mhall119> kenvandine: ping Re: ContentHub
<kenvandine> hey mhall119
<mhall119> hey kenvandine, I was wondering if there would be a "capture from camera" option via ContentHub, rather than just picking an existing image from the Gallery
<kenvandine> that would require the camera-app to add an export handler
<kenvandine> so it's picker would really just be taking a picture and storing returning the image to the requesting app
<mhall119> who's the main dev for camera-app?
<rickspencer3> mhall119, probably ask bfiller_afk ;)
<mhall119> kenvandine: and how do apps register themselves as handlers?
<daker> heathbar: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/camera-app/trunk/files
<kenvandine> would need to implement an ImportExportHandler class
<kenvandine> from libcontent-hub
<kenvandine> mhall119, which provides a handle_export method and provides the picker, which would really just change what it does with the resulting image
<mhall119> kenvandine: so, let's say I'm a 3rd party app developer writing a QML app that manages Foo content, how do I let other apps request a Foo from my app?
<mhall119> all of that deployed via a click package
<kenvandine> you'd implement the handler and add the json file to your click package
<kenvandine> that the click hook would use to register the source
<mhall119> can I implement the handler in QML/Javascript? and can I do everything from within my /opt/click.ubuntu.com/blah folder?
<kenvandine> yes
<mhall119> ah, there's a click hook, that's the part I was missing
<mhall119> now, dare I ask, where is that click hook documented?
<kenvandine> i thought it was on d.u.c :)
<kenvandine> but i could be wrong
<mhall119> not on http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/Ubuntu.Content/ that I see
<kenvandine> you can look at this for an example: lp:~ken-vandine/+junk/hub-exporter
<kenvandine> mhall119, ok, i'll make sure that gets added
<mhall119> thanks kenvandine
<mhall119> should also probably mention the content_exchange/content_exchange_source AppArmor policies that will be needed
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> mhall119, mind filing a bug?
 * kenvandine is a bit involved in something atm, don't want to forget :)
<mhall119> kenvandine: https://bugs.launchpad.net/content-hub/+bug/1266883
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1266883 in content-hub "Documentation for Click packages" [Undecided,New]
<mhall119> thanks
<kaimast> hey all. the link for the dual boot app installer script is dead: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/DualBootInstallation
<kaimast> is there some other place I can get it?
<mhall119> kenvandine: am I correct in understanding that all a QML app needs to do is the onExportRequested connection documented here: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/Ubuntu.Content.ContentHub/
<mhall119> populating the list<ContentItem> with the user's selection where you have // show content picker
<kenvandine> yeah
<mhall119> cool, having a meeting with the file-manager devs in a couple hours, going to try and get them to start implementing this
<heathbar> Anyone know where I can find some example C++ code for capturing images from the camera hardware?
<pmcgowan> heathbar, the camera-app
<pmcgowan> using QCamera and QMultiMedia interfaces
<annerajb> hello!
<davmor2> ogra_: how do I go about disabling swap and I'll have a play with it on maguro tonight and tomorrow and report any issues
<annerajb> have anybody been succesfull at porting cm-11.0 based devices to ubuntu touch? I started looking at the LG G2 but since it's based on cm-11.0 it's requiring things on newer repositories.
<cwayne> cyphermox, hey sorry, had to disappear for a bit.. any luck with that MR?
<cyphermox> cwayne: busy with something else, I'll get to it soon
<cyphermox> looking quickly it seems fine though
<mhall119> hurray for a new release!
<cwayne> cyphermox, ah, no rush sorry :)
<bfiller> pwd
<bfiller> mhall119: choosing a picture directly from the camera will be supported but till post 14.04
<mhall119> bfiller: ok, thanks
<bfiller> mhall119: unless we free up someone to do it, so it's possible
<mhall119> I don't think it's necessary enough for that, too much higher priority
<mhall119> I just wanted to make sure it was on a roadmap
<mhall119> I'd rather see the HUD icons working before this
<mhall119> and calendar sync
<mhall119> and alarms
<mhall119> and and and...
<mhall119> :)
<nik90> xnox: ping
<nik90> xnox: replied to your clock app bug report.
<mhall119> beuno: ralsina_: when can we expect to have commercial apps support (uploading in myapps & purchasing in dash)?
<mhall119> and also when might ratings and reviews become available?
<xnox> nik90: thanks! will take a look in a second.
<xnox> nik90: ok, I see. Let me talk to landing team about it.
<nik90> xnox: I believe balloons already requested sergiusens to update the click package. So hopefully it should land soon enough.
<xnox> nik90: oh, cool!
<sergiusens> nik90, I got no req, but I can look into it
 * balloons points sergiusens to the landing pipeline sheet, line 227 :p
<beuno> mhall119, for the first one, we'll probably have a beta phase in Feb
<sergiusens> balloons, lol, that sheet requires pings :-)
<xnox> sergiusens: oh yeah, so clock-app click update is possibly blocking #1266841
<nik90> sergiusens: yeah that would be nice. I don't the clock app click hasnt been updated for months.
<beuno> mhall119, for R&R, it should be landing in the next few weeks
<xnox> sergiusens: but i need to verify that I'm testing the right branches against the right clicks.
<balloons> sergiusens, I thought we covered it.. lol.. we can blame me no worries
<sergiusens> mup tell me what bug  #1266841 is
<ubot5> bug 1266841 in Ubuntu Clock App "1 test error, when running in the emulator" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1266841
<sergiusens> xnox, the click tests don't pull directly from trunk
<xnox> nik90: hm. What's confusing is that on image 116 on mako, clock app has add_remove_world_location and it's passing http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/mako/116:20140107:20131223.2/5931/ubuntu-clock-app-autopilot/
<xnox> nik90: and I believe i'm testing the same image in the emulator.
<sergiusens> xnox, actually, that would be in response to nik90
<xnox> sergiusens: i guess i need help from autopilot-jenkins-click-experts help, who would that be?
<sergiusens> xnox, balloons, thomi, doanac and myself
<nik90> sergiusens: what do you mean that click apps dont pull from trunk?
<sergiusens> xnox, I can check the test on an emu instance here and see what the problem is
<nik90> sergiusens: are you referring to the clock-app-test package?
<sergiusens> nik90, no; the click package has some extensions in telling it where the orig repo is and the bzr revno to use
<mhall119> beuno: if we get commercial apps for the showdown, can we use the beta phase to get them into the store?
<sergiusens> nik90, so the only way this wouldn't work is if you overwrote trunk with something different
<xnox> sergiusens: well, we could use the full revision id (~= git commit hash) instead of just numeric one.
<xnox> sergiusens: that would catch if trunk got over-ridden
<sergiusens> xnox, makes sense; I can make an improvement on that side
<xnox> sergiusens: my test-runner is doing ~= phablet-click-test-setup --click com.ubuntu.clock; phablet-test-run ubuntu_clock_app. I hope that's the right way to do it.... to test like click for like testsuites.
<sergiusens> xnox, yes; you have apparmor disabled I take it
<nik90> sergiusens: on the note of click apps, when you pull in the latest trunk rev no, do you also change the click package version numbering automatically or should I do it on my end (in the json file)?
<sergiusens> xnox, else all your tests would fail
<sergiusens> nik90, automatic
<nik90> sergiusens: alrite, then I dont need to worry about it.
<xnox> sergiusens: apparmor is disabled, as a boot options & I still call the setup functions to do that click disable apparmor, disable edges demo, and "blind stab & unlock screen"
<sergiusens> xnox, if you restart unity8 with testability; the unlocking is done automagically fwiw (I don't use it; but it is used in automation)
<sergiusens> fginther, you use that already, right?
<xnox> sergiusens: i get qmlscene t e s t a b i l i t y option unknown.....
<xnox> sergiusens: is that supported by stock unity8 / qmlscene on the image?
<sergiusens> you wnt so set-env QT_TESTABILITY=1; restart unity8
<xnox> sergiusens: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6711344/
<sergiusens> xnox, that's harmless regardless
<sergiusens> Testability driver loaded. Wire protocol version is "1.4".
<xnox> sergiusens: utils/target/unlock_screen.py:    os.system('echo "exec unity8 -testability" > ~/.config/upstart/unity8.override')
<xnox> sergiusens: that's in lp:ubuntu-test-cases/touch... what/how/where are the test results as seen on ci.ubuntu.com are executed? full scripts / steps? I guess i want jenkins config for those jobs?
<sergiusens> xnox, I have no idea wht lp:ubuntu-test-cases/touch is; might be something the new QA has created
<sergiusens> veebers, can you provide guidance on how the lock screen for unity8 is supposed to be used?
<fginther> sergiusens, yes, that looks like what upstream merger does
<xnox> sergiusens: well, in https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/trusty-touch-mako-smoke-ubuntu-clock-app-autopilot/100/console it does branch lp:ubuntu-test-cases/touch at the very start and then goes on to do the rest.
<fginther> sergiusens, xnox, lp:ubuntu-test-cases/touch is what drives the daily smoke tests
<xnox> fginther: right, i guess i should go and verify which portions am I using and how it's executed in the smoke tests and find the differences.
<xnox> fginther: is https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/trusty-touch-mako-smoke-ubuntu-clock-app-autopilot/100/console the easiest way to parse things?
<sergiusens> xnox, look at the configure directly
<xnox> fginther: or like, what's the contents of $ /bin/sh -xe /tmp/hudson726972573040675570.sh and how it's generated, from the top of https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/trusty-touch-mako-smoke-ubuntu-clock-app-autopilot/100/console
<xnox> sergiusens: where is configure? and do I have magic access to see it?
<veebers> sergiusens: I'm not sure I follow. Are you asking about the script that xnox mentioned?
<fginther> xnox, I can pastebin the jenkins guts to youo
<sergiusens> veebers, nvm, fginther just answered ;-)
<veebers> sergiusens: sweet
<xnox> fginther: i think i'm in some qa teams to see config bzr branches.
<xnox> fginther: are those configs defined there?
<xnox> fginther: the ~p-ps-q-team
<fginther> xnox, the jobs are created by lp:ubuntu-test-cases/touch
<fginther> xnox, here's what's in the jenkins bash script: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6711380/
<xnox> fginther: thanks a lot! i'll modify my emulator hooks to do things via jenkins.sh script as well, so that certainly can explain a few differences in my test output.
<fginther> xnox, there is also scripts/provision.sh which is intended to run as a one-time setup before running the tests
<xnox> fginther: right, I forked that one into scripts/provision-emulator.sh as things are different
<fginther> xnox, cool
<xnox> fginther: i use snapshots, so each emulator boot is "first boot" as it's drives are rolled-back to pristine image, and thus no reboots required.
<xnox> fginther: (actually, more correctly reboots of the emulator fail ;-) / not possible to do )
<xnox> fginther: apart from that it's all about the same.
<xnox> (similarly pre-test reboot, is roll-back snapshot + boot)
<balloons> xnox, so I'm looking into the terminal bug, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-terminal-app/+bug/1257791, and atm it appears things begin to break when we switch to libpinyin4. If this is indeed true, does anything stand out to you as the reason why?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1257791 in Ubuntu Terminal App "Enter and backspace broken in terminal" [Critical,Triaged]
<xnox> balloons: define "not work" where / how? on the real device?
<balloons> xnox, yes, on a real device. The terminal app doesn't see the keypress event at all
<balloons> only for backspace and ente
<xnox> balloons: honestly, i don't know. Talk to ubuntu-keyboard people / qt / security...
<balloons> I'm just pinging you since I saw you did the work on pinyin4 is all..
<balloons> and I think that *might* be the cause.. just asking if you would think it worthwhile to look into or not
<balloons> it's hard to go back further because the older builds needs libpinyin2
<balloons> if the port was boring, I'll assume it was something else
<balloons> xnox, ^^
<xnox> balloons: the port was boring, and was fully validated across all tests, ubuntu-keyboard and manual testing in multiple languages.
<xnox> balloons: and pinyin is used for predicting chinese/etc. words ahead of typing the full thing. Certanly nothing to do with !asian languages, or generic things like "Enter"
<xnox> balloons: libpinyin2 is no longer available in trusty... and that's for a long time now.
<balloons> xnox, kk, just ruling things out ;-) Yes, I have a suspicion about this bug, but can't check on it because of pinyin2.. I'll have to try something sneaky. https://launchpad.net/bugs/1202694
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1202694 in Ubuntu UX "[osk] when backspace is pressed to erase a letter, you cannot see the auto-complete suggestions" [High,Fix committed]
<xnox> balloons: i'm confused how/why/where you still use pinyin2... it's not available anywahre.
<xnox> balloons: it's better to debug things, instead of trying to figure when something changed.
<balloons> xnox, I'm saying the older builds use pinyin2 is all.. I tried a bit of debugging, but I'm not up to snuff.. My ideas fizzled
<balloons> anyways, ty for the confirmation
<xnox> balloons: my recommendation is to try it in the emulator.
<balloons> oO.. hmm
<xnox> balloons: if everything works in the emulator, you can be certain it's app-armor blocking you =)
<xnox> balloons: if it fails in the emulator, at least you can then pass it on to any developer =)
<sergiusens> balloons, nik90 this is what I get with the latest devel-proposed on maguro: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6711621/
<xnox> sergiusens: is emulator sdcard pulling devel or devel-proposed....
 * xnox goes to check
<sergiusens> xnox, the stuff I built has channel selection
<sergiusens> and pull devel-proposed by default
<sergiusens> hopefully would be uploaded today
<xnox> sergiusens: and then i'll need to rebase / integrate on top of that...
<sergiusens> balloons, nik90 on rerunning I only get one fail, that seems to pass every now and then http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6711661/
<balloons> mm.. sadly no maguro for me
<sergiusens> balloons, it seems that it's just a matter of slowness
<balloons> right
<sergiusens> balloons, I'll upload and send over to popey
<popey> kk
<sergiusens> popey, https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/click-apps/121/
<popey> sergiusens: approved
<nik90> sergiusens, balloons, popey: thnx
<popey> np
<beuno> mhall119, depends on when the contest is  :)
<stgraber> ogra_: oh, btw, I spent a couple of hours fixing some issues with one of my system-image branches and I know have something that should work for ports. I have an example of a working server at https://phablet.stgraber.org
<stgraber> the branch still needs a bunch of tests to be written before I merge it but I'll try to get that done this week
#ubuntu-touch 2014-01-08
<annerajb> has anybody been succesfull on porting ubuntu touch to cm-11.0 based devices?? rsalveti
<rsalveti> annerajb: working on it
<rsalveti> annerajb: ping me back next week :-)
<annerajb> rsalveti, any pointers to which branches is it being worked on and for what devices so i can help or learn?
<rsalveti> annerajb: the core porting is still local, want to get at least one image working before getting that somewhere
<rsalveti> but basically doing a rebase of our current patchset and doing some additional changes
<annerajb> hmm ok ill stop what i am doing them so i don't spend a week going crazy :P
<annerajb> rsalveti, thx
<rsalveti> haha, no worries
 * rsalveti dinner
<mhall119> beuno: starts early Feb
<egrep_> https://i.imgur.com/RzyPiV3.png , yet afterwards my nexus 4 (mako) boots fine into cwm-ubuntu recovery. any way to get it to either ignore that, or to (myself/get-it-to) do the stuff that it does afterward?
<egrep_> Oh. It's just python. I can probably pluck out what I need.
<mhall119> beuno: starts early Feb
<egrep_> Or can I...
<egrep_> Bah. I'm too lazy.
<egrep_> I think I might know the problem...
<egrep_> GAAH.
<egrep_> apparently this is a hardware problem -.-
<egrep_> I hope this script that's I found works...
<egrep_> ...It's working...
<egrep_> Riiiight. Seems to work... except for the touch screen.
<egrep_> Or any buttons at all.
<egrep_> In fact, it seems frozen.
<egrep_> Well, it's better than Vista.
<egrep_> IT WORKED!
<egrep_> Your silence was awesome! THANKS!
<egrep_> Right... there's only QWERTY?
<RAOF> egrep_: I don't know; possibly at the moment.
<egrep_> :(
<egrep> At least I have Ubuntu!
<RAOF> Hurrah!
<egrep> I wonder if it's possible to create my own keyboard...
<egrep> ...but I'll figure out later.
<egrep> Probably is.
<RAOF> Shouldn't be too hard; it probably requires nothing more difficult than editing a text file somewhere.
<egrep> Yeah.
<egrep> So far, it's pretty awesome.
<egrep> Do you know if the recent apps are still running when I go to the home screen, or if they close?
<RAOF> Neither; they get stopped, then (possibly) killed in such a way as they restart at their previous point.
<RAOF> Except for baked-in apps; we don't yet have the lifecycle + multitasking APIs fleshed out.
<egrep> Huh.
<Mirv> chriscoulson not online anymore :(
<vp7> is ubuntu sdk installable in ubuntu 12.04?
<brayann16k> hello
<vp7> not able to install ubuntu sdk in Ubuntu 12.04.. I would like to develop applications for Ubuntu moblie. please help with installation
<pitti> robru: FYI, I manually uploaded https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/autopilot-gtk/1.4+14.04.20140107-0ubuntu2
<pitti> second time I had to do it, it seems the daily-release PPA has an xpathselect stuck in it which never gets released
<pitti> robru: thanks for landing ap-gtk
<robru> pitti, hummm, maybe there should be a landing ask for xpathselect? not familiar with that component.
<pitti> it's a library for autopilot (and not much else)
<pitti> I suppose trunk finds its way automatically into the PPA, but then it never gets released
<pitti> but packages get build against PPA libs and then binary-copied into ubuntu
<robru> pitti, yes, the current scenario of 'manual publishing mode' results in everything built in the PPA frequently, but only released to distro when asked for. makes the PPA a real mess.
<pitti> right, and apparently we don't have an installability/dependency check there
<pitti> supposedly it doesn't happen too often
<robru> pitti, well apparently it got held up in -proposed, so I guess there was some kind of check.
<pitti> right, in britney (and after failing its and shotwell's autopkgtest)
<pitti> the no-change upload fixed it, so no actual harm done
<pitti> I was just wondering why xpathselect isn't being released
<robru> pitti, well, nobody told me to release it ;-)
<pitti> now, I'm not really familiar with the release bureaucracy behind it, but if it helps I can add something to the landing spreadsheet
 * pitti does
<robru> pitti, well do you know who develops xpathselect? make sure upstream is ready for a release. would be bad if trunk was not releasable and we made a release...
<pitti> done
<pitti> robru: it's thomi
<robru> pitti, ok
<pitti> robru: and yes, as all our tests and builds run against the PPA version it's fine to release; we also have an autopilot PPA with daily releases
<robru> pitti, oh ok
<robru> pitti, so if I do a release of xpathselect, will it require another no-change rebuild in distro?
<pitti> no, should be fine; it doesn't break ABI
<robru> pitti, ah ok. I'll just release it then...
<pitti> but building against a newer version causes a binary dependency to the newer version, so it's uninstallable agianst the older ubuntu lib
<pitti> robru: cheers
<robru> pitti, ahhhhhh
<robru> pitti, ok, i hit the publish button. should hit proposed within half an hour.
<pitti> nice, that avoids running into the same trap again on the next ap-gtk upload; thanks!
<robru> pitti, you're welcome ;-)
<puppoo> how is it going everyone?
<puppoo> i wanted to get info about Ubuntu?
<puppoo> anyooonne?
<puppoo> whois?
<dholbach> good morning
<snakerock> Hello everybody. Is Canonical team porting UT to Nuxus 5?
<popey> xnox: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6713891
<popey> following your emulator email to the letter (I didn't install any pre-requisites)
<xnox> popey: interesing. What's the output of: dpkg-query -W android-emulator xvfb xinit phablet-tools
<xnox> popey: (my script hides it unfortunately)
<popey> well, I have installed android-emulator now.
<xnox> popey: basically one needs those packages installed, but it takes time to pointlessly do it each time, hence the basic check like that. I guess it fails if you had some RC removed packages =/
<popey> its possible I had it installed and removed it, certainly
<popey> xnox: also, ran "run-tests" and now I have an empty emulator window and a login prompt.
<popey> ahhh! its failing (partly) because I have a phone attached too
<xnox> popey: patience
<popey> "more than one device and emulator"
<popey> because my phone is charging
<xnox> popey: oh, yeah, i'm expecting one thing and one thing only =)
<xnox> popey: disable adb / usb debugging on the phone.
<popey> its ubuntu touch
<xnox> popey: i guess i could filter for "emulator-*"
<popey> that would help
<seb128> Mirv, hey, did you see chrisccoulson's question about qt5.2 landing yesterday? (I didn't see you replying)
<xnox> popey: sorry about that =) Filed a bug #1267044 will try to fix.
<ubot5> bug 1267044 in Juju Charms Collection "jemjem charm fails with a phone attached" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1267044
<popey> np
<xnox> a bug in a different place, but i have no bugtracker yet.
<Mirv> seb128: yes he wasn't online in the morning. so chrisccoulson see ubuntu-phone before Christmas for steps, and links inside the red box at https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjuCdq68GSyVdFI4QzNQdWpfME5aMEV2VXo0cUpOMkE#gid=19 - a lot of build failures need to be fixed, and then the image built with the PPA validated
<seb128> Mirv, k
<seb128> Mirv, thanks
<Mirv> about 80 source packages in addition to Qt itself need a rebuild, for about 55 of which I've done a LP build recipe
<Mirv> you're welcome
<Laney> seb128: what sets silent-mode in gsettings?
<seb128> Laney, nothing, mpt never provided us an UI to do that (I think he said he was assuming that it wouldn't be an UI thing but an hardware button)
<mpt> correct
<Laney> hmm
<seb128> Laney, why?
<Laney> I'm doing the AS stuff for the sound panel
<ogra_> which hardware button would that be ?
<seb128> ogra_, I guess volume down when hitting 0 ?
<ogra_> vol down -1 ?
<Laney> so it's not a boolean flag
<seb128> Laney, it should, why?
<Laney> it's volume == 0
<ogra_> you will still want to have a switch to en/disable vibration in that mode
<seb128> ogra_, vibration != silent mode I guess
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Sound#Phone like that?
<ogra_> seb128, i probably dont want vibration if i turn my phone to silent
<seb128> Laney, I'm not convinced that volume = 0 is a right assumption
<Laney> then there needs to be a control for it
<seb128> ogra_, see the drawing on the wikipage Laney pointed
<seb128> Laney, well, volume down can do the toggle when it hits 0
<seb128> Laney, then later we can maybe add stuff like "keep the power button pressed for 3 seconds" (what android is doing)
<seb128> or an UI somewhere
<seb128> Laney, I think it needs to be a bool flag, the fact that we don't have UIs atm to toggle the value doesn't change that
<seb128> we might get some later
<Laney> currently it does nothing
<Laney> that needs to change or having the flag is useless
<seb128> it displays the warning in the UI
<Laney> nothing ever sets it
<Laney> so you will never see the warning
<seb128> right
<seb128> but that's orthogonal
<seb128> you are arguing that we should throw the backend away because we don't have an UI yet?
<seb128> that seems backward, we are just ready for when we get the frontend part
<seb128> we don't have kinectic/vibration support in the toolkit yet either
<seb128> though that should land this week from what I read
<seb128> (or maybe next)
<Laney> there is no design for any explicit way of enabling silent mode
<Laney> indeed mpt just said it was 'hardware' controlled
<seb128> well, that's a design issue
<seb128> it still makes sense to have the backend side and UI ready
<seb128> it means you can enable silent mode from a command line atm
<seb128> which is better than not at all
<seb128> (omitting that it's not actually implement because the kinectic stuff didn't land yet)
<Laney> so maybe indicator-sound could set this
<Laney> (or something else)
<Laney> are volumes and the silent state a global property?
<seb128> mpt, do you envision silent-mode to be equivalent to "volume=0" or to me a bool state which is orthogonal to that?
<mpt> seb128, orthogonal. Some sounds arenât muted by Silent Mode (alarms, for example), and the volume setting would continue to control those.
<seb128> Laney, ^
<Laney> so how do you enable silent mode then?
<seb128> mpt, so you think we are going to get a physical "silent mode" button on the hardware then?
<seb128> mpt, wouldn't it make sense to have an UI on the software side as well? (e.g android let you enable flight mode or silent mode when you press the power button for some seconds)
<mpt> seb128, thatâs my working assumption. Unfortunately Silent Mode is one of the things that was forgotten in the PRD, so there are no definite requirements for it. If it turns out that there isnât a hardware button, Iâll add it to the menu.
<seb128> mpt, just curious, is there any phone out there with a such button?
<Rienzilha> iphone
<mpt> ^
<Rienzilha> apple will probably have patented it :)
<Rienzilha> because a hardware button is a revolutionary new invention :P
<seb128> oh, ok
<seb128> my android phone only has power/up/down
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> an we dont plan for other hw buttons at all on the lower system level
<timp> I like silent mode when you put your phone face-down on a surface
<timp> still it would be handy if there is a way to make it silent in your pocket
<chrisccoulson> Mirv, thanks. i'm waiting on the qt5.2 stack to properly test oxide on touch
<chrisccoulson> is there any chance of me using the qt5.2 PPA for building oxide? :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<ogra_> davmor2, hey ...
<ogra_> davmor2, disabling swap is sadly not that easy since it happens from the initrd ... you would have to hack up the script to disable the swapon in there and re-build the initrd
<davmor2> ogra_: I'm not talking to you, fancy not being online hours after your EOD ;)
<davmor2> ogra_: ah
<davmor2> ogra_: so is this a case of making a separate build for testing before rolling it out to the general public then?
<ogra_> (and additionally remove the swap line from fstab)
<ogra_> no, i think we can test that manually
<ogra_> let me try to disable it here, then i can give instructions ...
<ogra_> need to upgrade to 118 first though
<ogra_> hmpf
<ogra_> no wifi on my maguro
<ogra_> ah, was just slow
<Mirv> chrisccoulson: sure, you can use it to build oxide most probably. because of the ABI breakage and resulting forced unity removal, I'd just suggest you do it inside chroot. apt-add-repository ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-beta2
<ogra_> davmor2, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6714261/
<atya> hi all
<davmor2> ogra_: just slow hpfff welcome to my world @P
<davmor2> :P even
<atya> can anybody tell me, where can I see, what is the last QA passed 14.04 Touch?
<davmor2> ogra_: I'll give it go for the day then and let you know what dies :)
<atya> what is the build number and date, I mean
<ogra_> atya, http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/
<atya> ogra_, tnx
<davmor2> ogra_: I'm there trying to touch /userdata/.... and wondering why it wasn't working I hadn't done adb shell first, it's going to be a long day isn't it :D
<ogra_> asac, so testing maguro with swap disabled here ... opening 4 webapps works but after a few times switching between them two of them are dead
<ogra_> davmor2, ^
<ogra_> try what you get (once you are there)
<davmor2> ogra_: yeah will do
<taiebot> Hi all. Am i the only one getting a crash with unity8 when scrolling through the music section?
<ogra_> works fine here
<seb128> Laney, rvr: hey
<rvr> pong!
<rvr> self.assertThat(background, Equals(None))
<seb128> Laney, did you have issues with only one test for u-s-s autopilot on the device?
<Laney> umm
<seb128> Laney, or anything using the pointer?
<rvr> that test fails because is not None
<Laney> I think it was basically all of the storage tests at least
<Laney> because it couldn't click on the item
<rvr> Laney: Aha
<rvr> Laney: Maybe the objects were renamed?
<seb128> rvr, no, those works on desktop fine, the issue is only on the device
<davmor2> ogra_: I think I'm done is there a way to confirm there is no swap now, just run mount or something?
<ogra_> davmor2, free
<ogra_> the bottom lline should only show zeros
<davmor2> ogra_: yeap
<davmor2> perfick
<ogra_> :)
<Laney> Yeah, indeed, it's on the device only
<Laney> probably best if someone tries to run it so that they can see themselves
<davmor2> ogra_: osk seems slower
<ogra_> oh, havent tried osk
<ogra_> i definitelly have two of four screenshots blank though
<ogra_> and swiping trough the apps doesnt seem to work properly
<ogra_> (first one comes up, cant flick to others though)
<davmor2> ogra_: hmm what happens if I open the camera that used to slow the system to halt as it was :D
 * ogra_ tries
<ogra_> works for me
<ogra_> i can even take pics
<rvr> Laney: Ok, will try to check it as soon as my device comes from the death and get updated
<Laney> nod, thanks
<ogra_> heh, but swiping it away to get back to the home screen is so delayed that i thought it hangs
<davmor2> ogra_: haha
<ogra_> and i definitely cant swipe through the running apps anymore
<ogra_> hangs on the first on
<ogra_> e
<davmor2> ogra_: yeap I got that
<dednick> sforshee: ping
<davmor2> ogra_: I get a load of flashing from the camera app
<ogra_> yeah, i got that too, but only after taking the first pic
<davmor2> ogra_: not for me it was flashing like crazy before that
<chrisccoulson> Mirv, oh, that's not really what I meant :)
<chrisccoulson> i was actually asking if i could build it in that PPA ;) (i need an arm build, which already takes nearly a whole day on these builders)
<chrisccoulson> i have another shared PPA for building on arm, but I'm not sure whether people would like me adding other random PPA's as a dependency
<davmor2> ogra_: I thought knocking swap on the head was meant to make the system faster  or am I dreaming that is what was said
<ogra_> davmor2, i dont see how it would ...
<davmor2> ogra_: because it isn't off loading to swap all the time?
<ogra_> it has a very low swappiness, it will only offload stuff you dont read/write a lot anyway
<ogra_> so you shouldnt even notice
<Mirv> chrisccoulson: is that lp:oxide?
<ogra_> chrisccoulson, use canonical-arm-dev, it is native and will be 10x faster
<ogra_> iirc you are a member there
<Mirv> chrisccoulson: I now created a recipe to building into that PPA from lp:oxide
<Mirv> I don't mind having the PPA even not-yet-in-use sources that need to eventually build against Qt 5.2
<Mirv> chrisccoulson: https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+recipe/daily-qt52-oxide - accessible whenever Launchpad feels like not giving a timeout
<tvoss> pitti, https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/qtubuntu-sensors/cmake-setup-take-2
<Mirv> chrisccoulson: right, a debian/ directory would help in getting it built, so please use another PPA until you have packaging
<Mirv> but it'll auto-build when it's there
<chrisccoulson> ogra_, i need to build it against the qt5.2 stack
<chrisccoulson> Mirv, ah, the recipe won't work, as it's missing the chromium checkout ;)
<ogra_> cant you set up the qt5.2 ppa as a dependency ? i thought LP had an option for that
<chrisccoulson> ogra_, i can, if people don't mind me doing that
<ogra_> well, disable it later again :)
<ogra_> i doubt anyone minds if thats a temporary thing
<chrisccoulson> heh, i guess i could do that. as long as other users of it are happy for me to do that, then i'll do it :)
<ogra_> tell them to complain to me if they feel like complaining ;)
<pitti> tvoss: \o/ did you get your cleanups branch merged? (that was a prerequisite, right?)
<tvoss> pitti, one of it, yes
<tvoss> pitti, other one is proposed, too
<asac> ogra_: hmm. not sure who would really understand why disabling swap has bad impact
<asac> i am sure we still have free mem when you see those issues?
 * ogra_ checks 
<ogra_> yep
<asac> ogra_: maybe kernel team might understand what exact effects disabling swap has?
<ogra_> let me install htop, thats easier to read
<asac> right
 * asac steps out for lunch
<ogra_> asac, well, i thought tvoss evaluated that when designing the whole system
<ogra_> apps also dont save their state, they just die and start afresh ... i thought the platform api was supposed to make sure they start where they stopped
<tvoss> ogra_, its up to the app to save their state
<ogra_> tvoss, ugh
<tvoss> they receive a signal from the platform api
<tvoss> ogra_, we obviously don't store complete memory snapshots
<ogra_> tvoss, so that means when flicking through my apps with more than two open i always end up on their start page
<ogra_> i thought that was the design (saving whole mem snapshots)
<asac> ogra_: yeah, but since you said we see issues even though we are not out of memory makes me think
<asac> that there is some side effect of disabling swap
<tvoss> ogra_, of course not, we always argued against saving memory snapshots
<ogra_> i think the kernel frees up stuff (or tries to)
<tvoss> ogra_, we keep the apps in memory as long as possible
<ogra_> well, seems like sonething kills them randomly
<tvoss> ogra_, so we usually resurrect only a stopped process, not a killed one
<tvoss> ogra_, are we talking usual apps or webapps?
<ogra_> tvoss, both
<tvoss> ogra_, how can I easily reproduce the behavior you are seeing?
<ogra_> i currently have four webapps open though ... two of them (totally random which ones) die after i flicked through them via the right edge
<tvoss> ogra_ can you try with non-webapps, please?
<ogra_> tvoss, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6714261/ disable swap like this ... then just start apps and use the system for a while
<ogra_> (this is on maguro atm, since the low mem will most likely expose the issues earlier)
<ogra_> tvoss, why would it make a difference ? the webapps are just standalone qml apps too (just using a webview inside)
<tvoss> ogra_, @random killing: at some point, the OOM kicks in, the android one that is
<tvoss> ogra_, @webapps: we have seen "interesting" behavior with the web runtime before and I'm not sure all known issues have been fixed
<tvoss> dbarth, ^, can you shed some light here?
<ogra_> tvoss, well, i dont get any such issues with 6 webapps open when i use swap on the same device
<ogra_> without swap and only four of them two of them die reliably
<tvoss> ogra_, well, I would suspect the apps run out of memory ... and that an allocation just fails
<tvoss> ogra_, but that's only a wild guess
<tvoss> ogra_, how does it behave on the n4?
<ogra_> tvoss, no idea, its my main phone and i wont do hackery on it
<ogra_> i would test on grouper but Mir misbehaves there
<ogra_> and i guess running SF will get me different behavior
<ogra_> tvoss, htp shows me 170M free btw (which means really free memory)
<ogra_> *htop
<ogra_> and dmesg has no trace of OOM
<ogra_> logcat neither
<ogra_> hmm
<ogra_> stopping all open apps frees up 200M though
<ogra_> (4 webapps)
<davmor2> ogra_, tvoss: I have 5 non webapps open, (dialer, contacts, gallery, friends, messaging) the system is running so slow it is unreal but all 5 apps are still currently live
<tvoss> ogra_, webapps are quite resource intensive as they have a web runtime each
<tvoss> ogra_, and I wouldn't assume that they are very "no more memory" robust
<tvoss> davmor2, ack, slowness is "fine"
<ogra_> davmor2, 6 apps here, flicking through them five times or so now two thumbnails are empty .... and the swiping is stuck
<ogra_> i can go back to the shell but cant flick through them
<ogra_> ram is at the edge now
<ogra_> (about 50M free)
<tvoss> ogra_, is that with webapps?
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> thast with 6 native apps
<ogra_> same behavior
<ogra_> just later since they seem to eat lless ram
<ogra_> no OOM traces anywhere
<Rienzilha> there was a time, not so long ago, my desktop computer didn't even have 50M of ram :)
<davmor2> ogra_: yay killed top
<ogra_> tvoss, and that behavior didnt change for me since we talked about the same 6 months ago
<tvoss> ogra_, might be, do we have a bug open to log the issue?
<ogra_> nope
<ogra_> oh, wait !
<tvoss> ogra_, would you mind filing one against unity-mir?
<davmor2> ogra_: don't forget that maguro has the bug with mir that means it randomly locks up if the frame buffer dies at any point
<ogra_> androids oom doesnt have "oom" in the log message anywhere
<ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6714553/
<asac> oSoMoN: did we ever get to tweak our webkit settings for low memory profiles?
<sergiusens> ogra_, this is not good, right? [  165.347108] SysRq : Emergency Remount R/O
<tvoss> ogra_, yup, was just about to say that
<asac> oSoMoN: i remember this being discussed, just not sure if we did it
<ogra_> sergiusens, argh ...
<ogra_> sergiusens, sounds like a filesystem error
<sergiusens> ogra_, finally joined the bandwagon and bought a Nexus 4...
<asac> oSoMoN: see discussion about no-swap above
<ogra_> sergiusens, heh and already hit issues ?
<sergiusens> ogra_, I tried bootstrapping over the OS it had; I think it would be fine if I factory over it instead of the stock OS it came with
<sergiusens> ogra_, yeah, today I saw on the back of it: Made in Argentina `:-P
<sergiusens> that could be it
<sergiusens> :-D
<oSoMoN> asac, no, we never did
<oSoMoN> reading the backlog now
<asac> oSoMoN: but we know what to do, right?
<ogra_> tvoss, bug 1267092
<ubot5> bug 1267092 in unity-mir (Ubuntu) "apps die randomly when the system hits 100% RAM usage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1267092
<sergiusens> asac, tvoss no swap? http://paste.ubuntu.com/6714588/
<ogra_> sergiusens, lol
<sergiusens> we do have a swap file created it seems
<ogra_> sergiusens, we do
<asac> sergiusens: right. thats the point
<asac> we want to kill that
<ogra_> sergiusens, but we want to disable it asap
<ogra_> but first need ot make sure it still works fine ... which it doesnt
<sergiusens> ah; then nvm!
<asac> its fine if it doesnt work perfect as long as we have ideas and hopes that we can fix it :)
<sergiusens> it didn't 12 months ago either
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> as i mentioned in the bug
<oSoMoN> asac, not specifically, we know where to look for stuff to tweak, but I donât think we ever tested those options
<ogra_> in fact the bug desxcription is wrong ... i dont actually hit 100%
<asac> oSoMoN: right. what are those tweaks?
 * ogra_ wonders if those tweaks have to happen on webkit level ... 
<asac> oSoMoN: does webkit even implement memorypressurehandlerlinux.cpp?
<ogra_> that might cause issues for deskrtop
<asac> in a reasonable manner?
<asac> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123532
<ubot5> bugs.webkit.org bug 123532 in WebKit Gtk "Implement MemoryPressureHandler for Linux system" [Normal,New]
<asac> seems its not implemented
<asac> probably could be ripped out of androids webkit?
<ogra_> though i think we have a general problam with the "keep apps alive even if they dont run" setup
<asac> well. we dont see thos issues
<asac> until we kill swap
<ogra_> right
<tvoss> ogra_, I think we are not aggressive enough in killing apps
<asac> just want to check if webkit work is possible in reasonable time
<asac> seems there are some patches for memory pressure available
<ogra_> tvoss, i think apps that are really dead should not have a thumbnail as a first step :)
<asac> without that it clearly makes sense that webkit isnt good at low memory
<oSoMoN> asac, I donât know, Iâd need to investigate
<tvoss> ogra_, well, talk to design ...
<asac> oSoMoN: i feel we would need at least something liek this: https://bug-123532-attachments.webkit.org/attachment.cgi?id=217871
<tvoss> ogra_, and on top: why would a user have to care
<ogra_> and then we should start trying to fix the reason they die and put the thumbnail back
<tvoss> ogra_, they die because we run out of memory
<asac> oSoMoN: you think that might apply cleanly to our code so we could try?
<ogra_> tvoss, an early adopter would file a bug if the app goes away
<ogra_> a user shouldnt even use such a system ... i'm just tryingto find a way to track the issue a bit better
<tvoss> ogra_, don't know what you mean. So you are saying if an app dies involuntarily, the thumbnail should go away?
<ogra_> tvoss, for now, yes
<ogra_> so people will file bugs
<ogra_> currently it looks like the shell behaves weird
<ogra_> while it is the app
<oSoMoN> asac, no idea, it has to be tried, but since the plan is to switch to oxide is it really worth investing time in tweaking our current setup now?
<asac> so yeah. if we dont even have memorypressure in webkit i think we can ignore that and focus on non-webapps to evaluate
<ogra_> tvoss, i just mean as a temporary thing while we try to track this down
<tvoss> ogra_, how would that help?
<ogra_> it wouldnt make the flicking through apps non-functional for example
<tvoss> ogra_, then we are only hiding the issue from my pov
<ogra_> k
<asac> oSoMoN: where is oxide?
<ogra_> asac, i think we should ask QA to come up with a test for ... say .. having 10 apps open and making sure they keep running
<asac> oSoMoN: isnt that webkit either? can you check if the code has memorypressure implementation?
<ogra_> (and swiping through them etc)
<asac> i am sure we need that in all code
<sergiusens> ogra_, flashing a factory image and then doing the bootstrap worked fine btw ;-)
<ogra_> great ... so it was the preinstalled system then
<asac> ogra_: well, if it clearly doesnt work, then we just need an owner who fixes that until he believes things are fine
<asac> once we dont se big issues landing and having tests makes sense for even better quality
<sergiusens> with apport taking over my cpu :-P
<ogra_> sergiusens, haha
<oSoMoN> asac, yeah, Iâll check
<ogra_> sergiusens, apport was fixed yesterday, cant be :P
<tvoss> ogra_, we shouldn't test if the apps are running, but if they can be flicked through
<davmor2> ogra_, tvoss: man it does really odd things when you swipe with less than 50 MB left
<asac> davmor2: without webapps?
<ogra_> tvoss, well, at least as long as we can detect if the app is actually displayed
<tvoss> ogra_, sure, the important bit is: the apps might not be running when they are in the background. We just need to make sure that they run when they are in the foreground
<ogra_> tvoss, on mako i get a weird "fade out" animation for the dead apps (iirc from last time), on maguro the flicking completely stops working
<tvoss> davmor2, sure, we need to tune our memory limits to make sure that we have more memory reserved to the system
<ogra_> davmor2, yeah, it does
<asac> tvoss: who owns taking the current device and tweaking the limits until its ready for rolling to our images?
<ogra_> asac, doesnt matter
<ogra_> asac, webapps just make you hit the threshold earlier it seems
<davmor2> asac: Yeap, currently I have (notes, shorts, gallery, weather, friend and clock)
<ogra_> for qml 6 seems the limit before it starts
<tvoss> asac, no one, yet. need to find someone
<ogra_> for webapps it is 4
<ogra_> (on maguro)
<ogra_> i guess mako might allow twice the amount
<davmor2> confirming ogra_ 's assessment 6 normal apps 4 webapps and crazy things happen
<ogra_> hmm, no kernel guys around ...
<ogra_> i wonder if it would help to disable swapping at kernel build time
<ogra_> i.e. it might do things differently then
<davmor2> swipe between apps and it skips apps, then the skipped app overlays the current app, if you swipe again it then goes passed the app you wanted, swiping back the the apps lens and a random app will suddenly come to the front, some apps holder on the apps lens show as blank, if you click on it it opens the app.......etc etc
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> for me at some point swiping doesnt work at all anymore
<ogra_> ah, speaking of the devil ...
<ogra_> hey rtg
<rtg> devil, huh ?
<ogra_> qheh
<davmor2> ogra_: ah for me it worked but kept showing the notes app
<ogra_> rtg, so we are trying to disable swap on the phones and get odd behavior ... i was wondering  if ... when swap is disabled in the kernel config ... there are different codepaths that could cause more sane behavior
<ogra_> i.e. does the kernel try to swap (or raise OOM) if swap is enabled but there is no swap in use etc etc
<rtg> ogra_, not sure, I'm not really familiar with that part of the kernel.
<ogra_> who do we have that is ?
<rtg> maybe apw
<ogra_> he is hiding from here :P
<tvoss> ogra_, so I will write down steps to adjust the android OOM killer behavior such that we keep more memory available to the shell
<rtg> its not something we have to deal with very often
<tvoss> ogra_, can we just try with an adjusted kernel?
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> tvoss, as long as we dont need to change modules, replacing the kernel binary isnt an issue
<ogra_> we even ship  developer scripts for that
<tvoss> ogra_, would be great if you could try a custom kernel, I will look into the oom killer stuff
<davmor2> ogra_: man htop uses a lot of cpu
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> 6-8% constantly
<ogra_> but it is the most accurate tool to see free ram
<davmor2> ogra_: agreed it's much nicer to look at :)
<tvoss> didrocks, Mirv, pitti https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/qtubuntu-sensors/add-position-plugin-in-preparation-for-dropping-qtlocation-distro-patch
<tvoss> and https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/qtubuntu-sensors/cmake-setup-take-2
<dbarth> tvoss, ogra_: sounds like a leak in the webkit runtime; i see that oSoMoN is looking into the memory handler of the runtime
<dbarth> that should be part of the solution, and be a todo for oxide as well
<ogra_> dbarth, well, i dont think webkit is the actual cause here ... it just exposes the symptom earlier due to being ram hungry
<ogra_> tvoss, ^^
<tvoss> ogra_, yup, but we still should fix the leak
<dbarth> ogra_: have the use case for reproducing the leak? ie which webapps are so prone to making webkit loose control?
<ogra_> dbarth, bug 1267092
<ubot5> bug 1267092 in unity-mir (Ubuntu) "apps die randomly when the system hits ~80% RAM usage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1267092
<ogra_> dbarth, i'm using a few apps from the store: heise, golem, n-tv and tagesschau (some typical german news apps)
<ogra_> tvoss, hmm, so i cant easily build a kernel since trusty does not have the compiler used for building it
<janimo> bregma hi, can  Unity8 with mesa drivers on a regular x86 desktop be tested at the moment?
<bregma> janimo, Unity8 "runs" on XMir but has very limited functionality
<janimo> bregma, are the platform-api or other touch specific bits present in some form in the XMir version?
<ogra_> janimo, unlikely
<ogra_> all that stuff hooks into Mir itself, not XMir
<janimo> ogra_, so this is a blocker for any device without an available android port that just has working mesa right?
<ogra_> janimo, is that on arm or x86 ?
<janimo> ogasawara, x86
 * ogra_ hugs leann
<ogra_> :)
<janimo> ogra_, for instance on a regular x86 tablet that regular Ubuntu works
<ogasawara> ogra_: ahhh, my first steal of 2014 :)
<ogra_> yeah
<janimo> one of you really should yield, be wiser and change your nick :)
<ogasawara> no way!
<ogra_> i already grew a tail to make us more distinguishable ... what more do you want
<ogasawara> hehe
<janimo> ogra_, grow a prefix, that is what causes the mess :)
<ogra_> janimo, well, i think you would actually need Mir to run to make use of the unity-mir and platform-api bits properly
<ogra_> (not XMir)
<ogra_> and i dont think there is any mesa support in Mir yet
<ogra_> iirc there was a bug open for SW rendering support, ask on #ubuntu-mir
<cwayne> dpm, ping, do we have a standard process for missing translations?
<cwayne> i.e., do we have a catch-all bug for apps, or do we have bugs by missing strings, etc
<ogra_> rsalveti, do you know if the original android kernel config usually has swap enabled ?
<ogra_> tvoss, asac, davmor2, so disabling swap in the kernel config does not change a thing i still have two out of four webapps die
<tvoss> ogra_, ack
<rsalveti> ogra_: nops
<rsalveti> ogra_: that's something we enable by default
<ogra_> and it feels a lot slower over all (if thats even possible on maguro)
<rsalveti> but did you check to see if swap is really being used with maguro?
<ogra_> rsalveti, yeah, i know ... i just wanted to know if the system behaves any different with it disabled ... i.e. if the kernel has different code if that option is off
<rsalveti> shouldn't
<ogra_> right, just proven that
<ogra_> not actually easy since you cant build our kernels on trusty anymore
<rsalveti> ogra_: why that?
<ogra_> (gcc4.6 is gon from the archive)
<rsalveti> oh, I guess I have a pending fix somewhere for mako at least
<ogra_> well, this was maguro :)
<ogra_> which is even 3.0
<rsalveti> right, but I know we have issues with all of them
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> we havent had a build under trusty yet
<rsalveti> right :-)
<ogra_> the others accept 4.7 though i think
<rsalveti> why did we remove 4.6?
<rsalveti> maintenance issues?
<ogra_> no idea, ask doko
<ogra_> or infinity
<ogra_> or whoever is in charge of such decisions
<rsalveti> I know that only 4.6 worked fine for most of our kernels
<ogra_> in any case i know that the odd behavior doesnt change kwhen it is disabled in the kernel config
<rsalveti> we also had issues with 4.7
<ogra_> jdstrand, i see a lot of http://paste.ubuntu.com/6715324/ (for random apps) on todays image (might be there longer, i havent looked at syslog for ages)
<jdstrand> ogra_: that's been there a long time. that is bug #1260491 and should be fixed
<ubot5> bug 1260491 in apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "please explicitly deny access to /run/shm/lttng-ust-*" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260491
<ogra_> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# dpkg -l |grep apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu
<ogra_> ii  apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu                              1.1.0                                       all          AppArmor easyprof templates for Ubuntu
<ogra_> well, seems it isnt
<ogra_> seems there is a line for each app i opened today
<ogra_> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# system-image-cli -i
<ogra_> current build number: 118
<jdstrand> ogra_: can you paste the profile: /var/lib/apparmor/profiles/click_com.ubuntu.calendar_calendar_0.4.172
<ogra_> jdstrand, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6715356/
<ogra_> line 286 it seems
<jdstrand> ogra_: is it possibly that these errors are from before you rebooted with the image that has 1.1.0?
<jdstrand> s/possibly/possible/
<jdstrand> cause, the rule is there
<ogra_> jdstrand, no, i upgraded early this morning and still get these messages
<jdstrand> ogra_: can you reboot, then tail -f /var/log/syslog and then launch the app and see if it gets the denial?
<jdstrand> ogra_: what kernel is that?
<mhall119> sergiusens: looks like there's a unicode bug in phablet-flash that makes it fail if the user's locale is chinese (and probably many other languages): https://bugs.launchpad.net/phablet-tools/+bug/1225257
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1225257 in Phablet Tools "phablet-flash "UnicodeEncodeError"" [Undecided,New]
<ogra_> jdstrand, maguros 3.0 (right now not the archive kernel, but at the time the log was created it was original) (and my rebuild with swap disabled has no other changes)
<jdstrand> ogra_: can you reboot and try again?
<sergiusens> mhall119, if the locale is in chinese or if the filepath contains these elements?
<ogra_> jdstrand, sure
<ogra_> jdstrand, but i rebooted several times today, it wont change :)
<sergiusens> mhall119, heh; the logger bails :-/
<mhall119> sergiusens: I'd think language, since it's the logger
<mhall119> unless it's the filepath triggering an exception that the logger tries to report and then also fails (dropping the original exception)
<mhall119> but it looks like it ran into an error downloading a file, and tried to report that error, then failed at that point
<ogra_> jdstrand, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6715397/
<ogra_> no change after a fresh boot
<sergiusens> ogra_, is http://116.199.115.44 one of our mirrors?
<ogra_> sergiusens, uh, no idea, IS would know
<sergiusens> ogra_, cdimage redirects there it seems; I'll ask, thanks
<ogra_> ogra@styx:~/Devel/branches/touchfhem/click$ host cdimage.ubuntu.com
<ogra_> cdimage.ubuntu.com has address 91.189.92.164
<ogra_> not for me
<sergiusens> ogra_, it was a 302 ;-)
<ogra_> ah
<jdstrand> ogra_: can you stop the calendar, then do: sudo apparmor_parser -r /var/lib/apparmor/profiles/click_com.ubuntu.calendar_calendar_0.4.172
<jdstrand> ogra_: then try again?
<popey> sergiusens: can we get a calculator update pushed to the store pls?
<popey> â»
<sergiusens> popey, sure
<popey> thanks
<ogra_> jdstrand, completely quiet
<jdstrand> interesting
<jdstrand> that means that your /var/cache/apparmor files were newer than your /var/lib/apparmor/profiles files
<jdstrand> (well, should mean that)
<ogra_> jdstrand, hmm, all files in /var/lib/apparmor/profiles/ have a jan 1st 2000 timestamp
<jdstrand> that is odd
<jdstrand> seems the clock was off when you upgraded?
<ogra_>  /var/cache/apparmor looks fine
<ogra_> though i notice that some apps have 3-4 profiles in there for older versions
<ogra_> wont that eat our disk at some point ?
<ogra_> jdstrand, well, on the UI it definitely showed the right time this morning
<ogra_> before i upgraded from system-settings
<kaimast> hi all. are there any known glitches with mir on maguro. I have a weird flickering when I scroll a listview fast
<jdstrand> ogra_: please file a bug on profile removal. it is known and we are actively leaving it in place atm
<jdstrand> ogra_: that would be against click-apparmor
<ogra_> ok
<ogra_> though that doesnt help with the timestamp issue
<ogra_> stgraber, are we sure the rtc and clock are set properly when the mount stuff in initrd runs ? looks like i have a writable dir with borken timestamps (jan. 1st 2000 for all files)
<greyback> kaimast: there may be glitches with mir on maguro, it would help greatly if you'd log a bug on it please
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> "might be"
<kaimast> greyback: if i think more about it maybe it is just because of the overall slowness of the system
<greyback> kaimast: that's https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1182930 then
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1182930 in Mir "Galaxy Nexus rendering performance is too low" [High,Triaged]
<kaimast> oh cool thanks greyback
<kaimast> i wonder if support for galaxy nexus will be dropped in the near future
<ogra_> kaimast, it will be the first device we drop *if* we drop one
<kaimast> i really hope not :)
<ogra_> well, it would really need a lot of love on the speed side
<oSoMoN> didrocks, hey, webbrowser-app trunk has some debian packaging changes that could use a review before releasing, do you know who could do that review?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: I'll ask ken to do them, just file the landing ask mentionning them please
<didrocks> oSoMoN: the release is to fix the flaky tests?
<oSoMoN> didrocks, no, the release is because there hasnât been one in two months :)
<didrocks> oSoMoN: fair enough, there is no flaky tests in it as well :)
<didrocks> oSoMoN: gallery-app doesn't have any landing ask, that's on purpose?
<oSoMoN> didrocks, there should probably be one, let me see with bfiller
<bfiller> didrocks, oSoMoN : I added one earlier
<didrocks> thanks!
<didrocks> bfiller: oh? did I miss it?
 * didrocks looks
<bfiller> only did it like 30 mins ago
<didrocks> ah ok!
<didrocks> I'm not *that* crazy then
<didrocks> thanks bfiller :)
<sergiusens> balloons, popey just got an n4 here, autopilot test run twice as fast it feels
<balloons> sergiusens, oO.. I'll bet. I've been on manta recently
<oSoMoN> didrocks, regarding the packaging review, wouldnât it make sense to do it prior to requesting a release? just in case it needs changesâ¦
<didrocks> oSoMoN: yeah, the issue right now is that we are all max out. If it's something trivial, I can have a look now
<oSoMoN> didrocks, yeah, the changes are rather trivial, give me a sec and Iâll produce a diff for you
<didrocks> thanks!
<oSoMoN> didrocks, not a contained diff, but the changes are in those two revisions: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/webbrowser-app/trunk/revision/405 and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/webbrowser-app/trunk/revision/420, the changes themselves are big but changes to the debian/ directory are rather minor
<sergiusens> popey, https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/click-apps/154/
<oSoMoN> didrocks, weâre basically splitting the webbrowser-app binary into two separate executables, thus two binary packages
<didrocks> oSoMoN: ok, you are missing a Replaces:
<oSoMoN> didrocks, for which package?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: I would bump the release version in debian/changelog
 * didrocks looks at the version
<didrocks> oSoMoN: so, bump to webbrowser-app 0.23
<popey> sergiusens: ta
<didrocks> then, in debian/control:
<didrocks> in the webapp-container stenza
<didrocks> you need to add (below Dependencies most of the time): Replaces: webbrowser-app (<< 0.23),
<didrocks> oSoMoN: oh actually, let me check something
<oSoMoN> didrocks, it doesnât actually replace anything, right, itâs just a new package that depends on the existing one
<didrocks> oSoMoN: yeah, I was misled by your "split"
<didrocks> oSoMoN: ok, no assets have moved, so everything is good, +1
<oSoMoN> didrocks, cool, does it make sense to bump the version manually to 0.23, or should we let the automatic versioning do its job?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: it's more of a matter of taste for you. As you changed it quite significantly, I would say bump it, but it's not that important
<oSoMoN> didrocks, yeah, thatâs what IÂ thought, letâs bump it manually, itâs quite a big change after all
<didrocks> please do, then just add to the landing ask :)
<oSoMoN> will do, thanks
<oSoMoN> didrocks, if I add a new changelog entry and leave it UNRELEASED, the release script will use it and fill it with all the relevant commit messages, right?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: exactly
<oSoMoN> as awesome as I expected it to be :)
<didrocks> ;)
<didrocks> the only commit that you won't see is the one with the changelog bump
<didrocks> as in that case we decide "ok, manual entry in debian/changelog, we don't touch for *that* commit"
<oSoMoN> makes complete sense
<popey> sergiusens: approved (and tested)
<oSoMoN> didrocks, is it ok to push such a change directly or does it have to go through the normal MR/CI/autolanding process?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: it's ok for those trivial changes
<oSoMoN> excellent
<mhall119> is rotation broken? it doesn't seem to work on mako right now
<mhall119> bzoltan: cjwatson: are you guys going to keep the SDK version and click platform version in sync?
<cjwatson> mhall119: I don't see that anything is needed here
<robru> rsalveti, sergiusens: how would I test that a new release of qtubuntu-sensors is working? what steps can I take to verify that it works?
<mhall119> cjwatson: well we're adding new APIs and stuff, if an app is using them we don't want it installing on an older install of the OS
<cjwatson> mhall119: that's what the framework version in the SDK is for; it doesn't need to be kept in sync with click though
<mhall119> also a move to Qt 5.2, which I hear is going to have binary compatibility breaks
<cjwatson> the SDK owns that version declaration
<cjwatson> (this was discussed pretty extensively at UDS, maybe you could review that)
<mhall119> cjwatson: so the string in the click manifest should match the SDK, but click itself doesn't need to be told what the available ones are?
<cjwatson> click is told that by the SDK; it doesn't live in click's own source code
<mhall119> cjwatson: do you rememeber the meeting name?
<cjwatson> no
<cjwatson> but it had some really obvious name
<mhall119> is the click scope aware and able to filter available apps for install and update based on that?
<cjwatson> dunno
<cjwatson> ask a click scope dev :)
<mhall119> beuno: ralsina_ ^^
<ralsina_> mhall119: yes it is
<mhall119> ok, great, thanks
<ralsina_> mhall119: or rather it can be made to do so easily, not sure if it does at this point since there has only ever existed one version
<ralsina_> mmcc: are we sending the framework version on queries?
<mhall119> we should check that, because I think we're going to have a new version of the SDK soon
<ralsina_> mhall119: yes, doing that right now :-)
<mhall119> :)
<mmcc> ralsina_: reading back. which queries? scope queries to click server for app results?
<mhall119> mmcc: yes
<ralsina_> mmcc: IIUC yes
<mhall119> mmcc: so that if I have 13.10 installed, but an app needs 13.10.1, it won't be available to install
<mmcc> here's what the query looks like: https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/search?q=,framework:ubuntu-sdk-13.10,architecture:i386
<mmcc> so, yes
<mhall119> mmcc: and on the server, does it use that as a minimum version, or does it have to match exactly?
<mhall119> or maximum version, I suppose
<mmcc> mhall119: I don't know - maybe we should ping beuno on that
<mhall119> beuno: ping ^^
<beuno> for the sdk version?
<mhall119> yeah
<mhall119> if a query sayd framework:ubuntu-sdk-13.10.1, will I get results for apps that target just ubuntu-sdk-13.10?
<mhall119> s/sayd/says/
<beuno> the plan, IIRC, is for that field to be exact, but with multiple entries
<mhall119> multiple entries in the click package?
<beuno> yes, in the manifest file
<pmcgowan> my proposal was its a minimum within a major version
<mhall119> +1 to that
<pmcgowan> so 13.10.0 will work on 13.10.1 for example
<pmcgowan> but 14.04 would not
<beuno> right, although the current naming sucks a bit to do min/max/etc
<mhall119> as long as the version name/number convention is enforced going forward
<annerajb> Hello!
<mterry_> stgraber, I wanted to modify the files from the system phablet image (like add some debugging comments to a qml file).  I edited the tar.gz inside the final zip used during a manual install.  But it didn't seem to take.  Is there a further trick?
<stgraber> mterry_: I'm only doing system-image and with system-image there's no such thing as .zip or .tar.gz so I don't know what you're talking about :)
<stgraber> if you are trying to manually patch system-image .tar.xz files before pushing them to your device, that won't work as the gpg signature won't match anymore
<mterry_> stgraber, hmm.  Maybe the manual instructions at the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install are out of date?
<stgraber> all system-image updates need to be gpg-signed by the system-image server
<stgraber> yeah, "Manual Download & Installation" covers the old style cdimage images, not the read-only system-image
<annerajb> Does Ubuntu Touch Support any device that has LTE? Specifically sprint LTE?
<thomi> tedg: Any ideas about the gir for upstart-app-launch? If you were able to give me a rough timeline, I can communicate that to the people who are asking me for upstart app launch support in autopilot :)
<tedg> thomi, So I've got it building the GIR but some of the annotations seem to be off.  Mostly need to debug.
<tedg> thomi, https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/upstart-app-launch/gir-support/
<tedg> thomi, That works to start and stop applications, but the observers don't work yet.
<thomi> tedg: cool - it's a pity that the thing I need most is the thing that doesn't work yet :)
<thomi> any ideas how long that debugging takes? I have no clue about gir stuff, so I really don't know how hard debugging this stuff is... are we talking hours, days, weeks?
<tedg> I'm hoping just an hour or two, just need to get it scheduled.  I'd hope to have it done by the end of the week.
<thomi> tedg: awesome, thanks. Once it's done, are you able to release to distro wihtout too much pain?
<tedg> thomi, Ha!  You need to figure out how to mark it as a "regression" -- that's how things get to distro :-)
<thomi> tedg: I only need it in trusty :)
<thomi> well
<tedg> thomi, Frankly, saucy is easier than trusty.  Gotten SRUs landed weeks before they got into trusty.
<thomi> tedg: I know... it makes me sad
<thomi> but we can at least try. Let me know when you have the code in trunk and I'll try and help get it landed
<mterry_> stgraber, is there a way at all to edit files before first boot?
<tedg> Cool thanks
<cwayne> thomi, tedg: i'm happy to try and help get stuff into the image if i can as well
 * cwayne is pretty dependent on this fix from thomi :)
<thomi> cwayne: I was about to point you to that conversation :)
<thomi> cwayne: sorry the fix turned out to be more complicated than it seemed at first :)
<cwayne> thomi, no worries, i generally assume that'll happen :P
<cwayne> but for sure let me know when stuff's in trunk and I can try and help push it through
<thomi> yup
<sergiusens> mterry_, you would need to modify the recovery image for that
<sergiusens> or do a manual deployment of what's in http://phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=CyanogenMod/android_bootable_recovery.git;a=blob_plain;f=system-image-upgrader;hb=refs/heads/phablet-trusty
<stgraber> mterry_: not easily, no. It's usually much easier to boot the system, apply your changes, then wipe /userdata/ of everything but system.img and SWAP.img, then reboot (which is effectively equivalent).
<cwayne> cyphermox, hiya, do you think that bluetooth-touch MR will make it in this week?  (just trying to get a plan/timeframe together) :)
<annerajb> sergiusens, are you guys planning on supporting any devices with LTE (specially sprint lte)??
<cyphermox> cwayne: ah! let me get that done RFN.
<sergiusens> annerajb, that's a question for awafaa
<sergiusens> awe_,
<sergiusens> ^
<awe_> annerajb, we will eventually, but not until we officially support an LTE-based device...
<Stskeeps> fwiw lte should work fine
<Stskeeps> at least from ofono ril/capabilities pov
<annerajb> awe_, what is required to get LTE support done, development on what project/library or side?
<awe_> Stskeeps is partially correct, our existing ofono code isn't that far off.  In fact it might work as is, but no promises until we've committed to officially supporting a device
<Stskeeps> :nod:
<awe_> I can't work on it, if I don't have a mandate, nor an actual device to work with...
<annerajb> would it be possible for me to help on that code or does it require any special hardware? NDA knowledge or anything like that?
<awe_> that said, if someone needs help with a port, I'd be glad to offer assistance, encouragement, ...
<awe_> annerajb, do you have a device that Touch has been ported to, that support it?
<annerajb> :( not yet
<awe_> then no
<annerajb> so all i need is a working ported device?
<awe_> and familiarity with ofono and RIL
<awe_> and LTE
<awe_> ;D
<annerajb> well i will have to wait for cm-11.0 be supported in ubuntu touch
<awe_> annerajb, we will get to this, it's just there are more important basic features still being worked on
<annerajb> ill guess ill have to sit idle while cm-11.0 is supported I started yesterday and noticed libhardware was a mess and needed merging badly
<annerajb> can we run android apps from ubuntu touch or do you have to boot back to android for that?
<cyphermox> sergiusens: can you help with a bit more review?
<cyphermox> sergiusens: https://code.launchpad.net/~cwayne18/ubuntu/trusty/bluetooth-touch/bluetooth-touch_lp1266859/+merge/200699
<cyphermox> cwayne: sorry, it doesn't work reliably on the Galaxy Nexus, I'm trying to fix it..
<sergiusens> cyphermox, I have a coment that can fix it
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> about when the properties service gets started?
<cyphermox> sergiusens: it works fine started manually, the problem is that it fails on boot at least half the time, at least here on my maguro
<sergiusens> cyphermox, added comment; you prbably haven't waited for the android container to fully start
<sergiusens> cyphermox, best choice is to wait for the socket bridge or the lxc container
<cyphermox> sergiusens: that should affect any and all bringup of bluetooth on the maguro though, and it doesn't seem to be
<cyphermox> it's the exact same code as bluetooth-touch :D
<sergiusens> cyphermox, is the job being logged? if the property system isn't up; response would be empty
<cyphermox> there is nothing to log there
<cyphermox> you'd never get any bluetooth working on the maguro
<cyphermox> brcm-patchram-plus wouldn't get started
<cummseng> what is ubuntu-touch? Is it linux + android/java on top or is it pure linux + some sort of touch interface with xorg etc
<sergiusens> cummseng, none
<sergiusens> cummseng, it's ubuntu + mir + small android running in lxc for driver support
<sergiusens> cummseng, the last + slowly goes away as hw support comes
<cyphermox> doh
<cummseng> can i install xmir and compile xorg apps and run them on the phone or is there more involved?
<cyphermox> sergiusens: the issue has nothing to do with the property service or android
<cwayne> cyphermox, yeah, i was figuring started bluetooth would've been fine, as bluetooth-touch does it on starting bluetooth
<cyphermox> it's because bluez is slow to start, and overwrites the change
<cwayne> ah
<cyphermox> this is partly why I was suggesting to do it in bluez directly
<cyphermox> I added a sleep 10 just before hciconfig and it's working great now
<cwayne> cyphermox, the pretty-hostname would've worked as well, but i was trying to not have to patch systemd (which i'd have to get /etc/machine-info properly writable)
<cyphermox> too bad it doesn't work on maguro, it was a pretty simple solution
<cwayne> cyphermox, yeah :/
<cwayne> i really thought if i did start on started bluetooth bluez would be fully up
<cyphermox> I can write you a quick plugin for bluez
<cyphermox> or you're welcome to ship the config anyway yourself if you're only really interested in the Nexus 4
<cyphermox> (as a temporary solution)
<sergiusens> cyphermox, is there any reason yet to hook up to the device through bluetooth?
<cyphermox> the what?
<sergiusens> reason is, I'd do it properly; it's to hard to undo hacks
<cyphermox> this one isn't really hard to undo
<cyphermox> but that's what I'm saying, I'll write a plugin for bluez to do this, that's the "right way", if libandroid-properties is something available to the world
<cwayne> i'm fine with doing it 'the right way', and i'm happy to help test cyphermox's plugin
<mhall119> is there some place where we're tracking the copy/paste functionality?  I have yet to get it to work
<cyphermox> sergiusens: I mean, a plugin that asks android-properties for the value and apply it if say, Name = %a or whatnot would be reusable by other people who try to run Linux on formerly android devices, assuming that it's fine to link things against hybris.
<sergiusens> cyphermox, I would abstract this somewhere else if possible; platform-api'sh; rsalveti ?
<cyphermox> erm, abstract that how, why?
<cyphermox> this is low-level bluetooth bringup stuff, not application stuff
 * rsalveti reads backlog
<sergiusens> rsalveti, the question is if we should use libandroid-properties directly
<sergiusens> cyphermox, then again, I missed the plugin part; so I take back my comment
<cyphermox> oh, ok?
<sergiusens> cyphermox, I think you should be fine
<cyphermox> I expect that would be a few thousand lines of codes only
<cyphermox> just kidding :)
<rsalveti> cyphermox: sergiusens: well, we could for sure move the properties calls to platform-api
<rsalveti> but not something for the next few days for sure :-)
<rsalveti> not hard to move though
<cyphermox> ideally I'd like to write something that I can just ship to bluez upstream though
<rsalveti> but we might want to have a different api
<rsalveti> right, using our platform-api would be more ubuntu generic
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> hence why I'm saying hybris or whatnot, to be as generic as possible
<rsalveti> use libandroid-properties for now, and let's schedule a discussion during our next sprint to have this as part of platform-api
<cyphermox> alright.
<cyphermox> oh, are you planning to do away with android-properties, that's why?
<rsalveti> cyphermox: no, but just thinking a more generic approach
<cyphermox> this really isn't something people will change directly as such, but rather via bluez dbus calls later.
<cyphermox> you mean ubuntu-specific
<rsalveti> yeah
<cyphermox> platform-api isn't generic
<rsalveti> well, it's generic for ubuntu
<rsalveti> that's our goal
<cyphermox> right
<cyphermox> well, in this case it's something that shouldn't matter at all
<rsalveti> if we can make it more distro generic later on, would be awesome, but meanwhile we need at least something generic for us
<rsalveti> right
<cyphermox> well, it would be distro generic from the start
<cyphermox> anyway, I'll write it, and propose it upstream, we'll see
<rsalveti> right
<cyphermox> bbl, dinner
<bfiller> tedg: what's the equivalent of Qt.openUrlExternally("application:///gallery-app.desktop") in the click world? converting gallery-app to click and need to update call from camera-app
<cummseng> is the community version of ubuntu-touch just the hackable version?
<tedg> bfiller, Not sure of the package name, but it'd probably be "appid://com.canonical.gallery/gallery-app/current-user-version"
<tedg> Oh, I guess I'm not sure of the desktop file name either.  But I'm assuming it's staying the same there.
<tedg> If you changed it, that'll need to change as well.
<bfiller> tedg: here is the click info for gallery http://paste.ubuntu.com/6717401/
<tedg> Ah, so you should only need "gallery"
<tedg> So "appid://com.ubuntu.gallery/gallery/current-user-version"
<bfiller> tedg: thanks, what is the "gallery" represent?
<tedg> bfiller, It's the item under "hooks" in the manifest.  In theory there could be multiple entries there.
<bfiller> tedg: got it, thanks
<popey> cummseng: there's only one version really. the one you can download.
<cwayne> bfiller, do you have an ETA on the gallery-app as a click?
<tedg> bfiller, Just FYI, you could do "appid://com.ubuntu.gallery/first-listed-app/current-user-version" and that'd choose the first item.  Not sure if that's useful for your use.
<bfiller> cwayne: hopefully this week - in process of testing and fixing tests, etc
<cwayne> ah, great!
<bfiller> cwayne: will do gallery and camera together
<bfiller> tedg: ok
<cwayne> thomi, ^^ that may just get you off the hook for that autpilot fix :P
<cwayne> (obviously it'd still need to be done, but that'd make it less urgent for us)
<sergiusens> bfiller, package name, app name, version, that's the tripplet
<greyback> tedg: if I did "application://com.ubuntu.gallery", would it just work? My app should not care about galley app version
<sergiusens> bfiller, in an ideal world we could put camera and gallery nin the same package; but that's not supported yet
<tedg> greyback, Nope, application URLs are more specific than that.  appid:// URLs allow you to put in a detectable version.
<greyback> tedg: so there are 2 prefixes: "appid://" and "application://" ?
<tedg> greyback, Correct.  One we inherited from ZG and the scopes.  The other more reflects click symantics.
<sergiusens> tedg, couldn't bfiller just use com.canonical.gallery and com.canonical.camera in his calls?
<greyback> tedg: if I'm an app developer, making my funky app, which wants to open gallery and have it show a picture of mine, what do I do? Qt.openUrlExternally("appid://com.ubuntu.gallery?file=mysharedfile.png")
<thomi> cwayne: yeah, thanks
<Nicnm> anyone know what the root password for the tablet is?
<cwayne> Nicnm, phablet
<Nicnm> lol rly, thanks
<mhall119> where should I file bugs against the Unity 8 theme?
<kaimast> hey all. is wireless encryption (WPA2) working? i seem to not be able to connect
<mhall119> Saviq: ^^ ?
<mhall119> kaimast: works for me, never really had a problem with it
<mhall119> on Nexus 4 anyway
<mhall119> greyback: why in the gallery and not in your app?
<Saviq> mhall119, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/trunk/files/head:/modules/Ubuntu/Components/Themes/
<Saviq> mhall119, so ubuntu-ui-toolkit
<mhall119> Saviq: thanks
<mhall119> Saviq: are the colors on the welcome screen determined by the theme?
<tedg> greyback, We don't support additional data on a URL.  If you want to do something like that you should probably use content hub.
<Saviq> mhall119, you mea infographic?
<tedg> greyback, There are some custom URL formats for different apps that can handle different data, but not the generic ones.
<kaimast> nevermind now it is working. last time it (re)asked me for the password all the time
<mhall119> Saviq: let me just get to the point, I want to file a bug about the orange color on the infographic looking terrible on non-purple backgrounds, and suggest it auto-adapt with the wallpaper
<greyback> mhall119: is just a theoretical question. Say I've made something like instagram. My app made the photo, but I'd like to save it to the image gallery, which gallery app does nicely
<Saviq> mhall119, ubuntu-ux first, then
<mhall119> greyback: ah, I think ContentHub can do that
<mhall119> thanks Saviq
<Saviq> mhall119, we're re-working the infographics system
<Saviq> mhall119, but just to pre-empt your issue - automagically adapting colors is not something that's really doable
<Saviq> mhall119, we'll provide a few colour themes for the infographics most probably
<Saviq> mhall119, and we can try and select one that fits the wallpaper somehow
<greyback> mhall119: then I wonder what's the real value of Qt.openUrlExternally for an app developer....
<Saviq> mhall119, but ultimately we'll allow users to select the theme most probably
<mhall119> Saviq: my thought was that we provide a table of base-color/highlight-color pairs, then best-match the wallpaper's "chameleon" color to a base-color
<Saviq> mhall119, 16M values? ;)
<mhall119> no no no, far fewer
<Saviq> mhall119, but anyway, that's not enough, we need multiple colours
<mhall119> we don't need *every* shade or purple, just bluish-purple, purple-purple, and red-purple
<mhall119> really it can be based on hue, ignoring brightness and saturation
<Saviq> mhall119, we need a small (4-5) palette of colours for visualizers to use
<mhall119> oh right, because different info uses different colors
<mhall119> forgot about that
<mhall119> we could use the same idea though, if the backround is "purple-ish", then use these two shades or orange and these two shades or purple
<Saviq> mhall119, but yeah, we know the problem - not a solution, though, yet
<Saviq> something along those lines, yes
<mhall119> I'll propose it in the bug report
<Saviq> afk
<kaimast> btw, how awesome is ubuntu touch? :)
<kaimast> (tried it for the first time on my phone today)
<mhall119> kaimast: pretty damn awesome :)
<kaimast> ran into some bugs but I was expecting a lot more
<mhall119> kaimast: stay on the stable channels (not -devel) and you shouldn't have many problems thanks to all the QA work
<mhall119> Saviq: do we have bugs for tracking features from Unity 7 that are missing on Unity 8?  Things like count indicators on the launcher, progress bar on the launcher, etc
<kaimast> is -devel like the -proposed stuff on the desktop?
<kaimast> i have no idea what channel i am on :D
<RAOF> devel-proposed is like the -proposed stuff on the desktop :)
<kaimast> so devel is like ubuntu+1?
<RAOF> Yes.
<ds2> for a device flashed with an image, is there a easy way to get the hash and repo of the kernel sources running?
<ds2> this is a Galaxy Nexus running "Trusty Tahr" per /etc/issue
#ubuntu-touch 2014-01-09
<ishark> i'm sorry if I'm posting an old question: i have tried many ways to install ubuntu-touch on nexus 7 3G (Tilapia), but forever failed. Any hints ?
<cwayne> plars, ping
<plars> cwayne: hi
<cwayne> looks like touch_custom hasn't been running?
<plars> cwayne: let me take a look
<plars> cwayne: oh, strangeness
<plars> cwayne: it didn't even get to the first subjob, so there was nothing to fail
<plars> cwayne: give me a moment, I should be able to kick it
<plars> cwayne: ok, it's running now
<cwayne> plars, great, thanks!
<Mirv> Saviq: I reopened the gsettings-qt bug, it still fails similarly with the new qtdeclarative snapshot so not sure what's up
<tvoss> Saviq, good morning
<tvoss> Saviq, switching unity-mir over to cmake I stumbled across http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6719287/
<tvoss> Saviq, where do these files originate from?
<timppa> Wow, haptic! :D
<tvoss> timppa, weird, isn'it? :)
<tvoss> Saviq, https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/unity-mir/switch-to-cmake
<Saviq> tvoss, thanks
<tvoss> Saviq, hang on, need to resubmit and set the prerequisite branch
<Saviq> tvoss, yeah, I can see it's not MP'd
<tvoss> Saviq, should be good now
<Saviq> tsdgeos, we really need to stop copying the .cmake files everywhere :?
<tsdgeos> Saviq: which .cmake files?
<Saviq> tsdgeos, basically everything that we have in lp:unity8 in cmake/modules
<tsdgeos> ah
<tsdgeos> yes
<Saviq> tsdgeos, maybe except Plugins.cmake and QmlTest.cmake
<Saviq> but I see no reason why we shouldn't share those as well
<Saviq> tsdgeos, and it was meant to be tvoss ;)
<tsdgeos> that's the hard stuff :D
<Saviq> tsdgeos, sorry for dragging you into this ;D
<tsdgeos> ok
<tvoss> Saviq, sure, I can factor that out into a common project. Do you want to block on this?
<tsdgeos> fwiw in the thing "that is not called kde5" there's a module with all these kind of files
<Saviq> tsdgeos, but thanks for your apt and unending support :D
<Saviq> tvoss, well, it's blocked on tests for the prerequisite branch already ;)
<tvoss> Saviq, sure, but we have a chicken-and-egg problem here :) I do not make the test coverage any worse, even in the prerequisite branch
<Saviq> tvoss, and yeah, that would reduce the diff by half or so, so I'd rather see that extracted first
<Saviq> tvoss, yeah, why did you make it a prerequisite anyway? ;)
<dholbach> good morning
<Saviq> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey Saviq
<tvoss> Saviq, well, the prerequisite branch pulls in some additional dependencies
<tvoss> Saviq, but I can inverse that relationship
<Saviq> tvoss, maybe that'd be best inded
<Saviq> +e
<Saviq> didrocks, 4 years today, congratz you old goat! ;D
<didrocks> Saviq: ahah, thanks a lot! is it linkedin that suggested that or we have a secret calendar? ;)
<didrocks> ah, just got my answer ;)
<Saviq> didrocks, indeed :D
<didrocks> I remember, it's that week we packaged Unity for the first time ever
<didrocks> and did a respin of ubuntu with it, just a small preview
<didrocks> (it was just a launcher at the time)
<didrocks> sprinting in Paris
<didrocks> was fun ;)
<didrocks> ah, as well, it's the day Rick understood how pleasant parisian waiters can beâ¦ ;)
<Saviq> :)
<tvoss> Saviq, any thoughts on these two files? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6719287/
<Saviq> tvoss, wtym? those come from unity-api, being included as source in projects implementing those interfaces, why?
<tvoss> Saviq, hmmmm, wouldn't it make more sense if unity-mir carried those interfaces?
<Saviq> tvoss, the idea was, if you remember, to have a common place for shell-facing interfaces (being unity-api), so that we have them disconnected from any particular implementation
<tvoss> Saviq, ah .. okay, I misread unity-api as unity
<tvoss> Saviq, https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/unity-mir/switch-to-cmake-take-2/+merge/200967
<Saviq> tvoss, cheers, will try and get a review today
<lool> cjwatson: Hey
<lool> cjwatson: so it seems what was feared about qt 5 is what is happening
<lool> cjwatson: that is, the proposed plan is to rename the qt5 binary package but keep the SONAME the same
<lool> cjwatson: I am not aware of a technical solution to ship two versions of the same SONAME with different ABIs on the same root, so either we change the SONAME or revert the ABI change and break compat with Debian and other Linuxes and upstream, or we introduce chroots
<lool> cjwatson: do you know of other options?
<lool> cjwatson: Debian #731261 has the background
<ubot5> Debian bug 731261 in release.debian.org "transition: Qt5 switching qreal == double for all platforms" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/731261
<cjwatson> lool: we could ship the .so in a private library directory and have anything that needs compatibility use LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<cjwatson> a chroot would be significantly (and in my view unnecessarily) more heavyweight
<seb128> mpt, hey, I think that we said in Oakland that Serial/IMEI should be hidden on a config which doesn't have those infos (rather than being displayed as N/A as currently done/specified in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AboutThisDevice#Phone)
<seb128> mpt, is that right? can you update the wiki to reflect that (do you want a bug report as a reminder)?
<davmor2_> Morning all
<davmor2_> ogra_: haptic feedback but only partial which makes it weird :)
<ogra_> oh, i havent upgraded today
<davmor2> ogra_: 119
<ogra_> yes
<davmor2> ogra_: also I thought if you enabled /userdata/.writable_image that it should update as it was in developer mode or am I wrong?
<davmor2> should not even
<ogra_> it should still update
<ogra_> (and will revert any changes you made to the ro part)
<davmor2> ogra_: that's okay then is there a difference between rw mode and developer mode then?
<ogra_> nope
<ogra_> not to my knowledge
<davmor2> ogra_: oh okay, I don't know why I was under the impression that you couldn't updarte then
<popey> ogra_: eh.. if you enable writable_image mode it does break updates
<davmor2> ogra_, popey: no it doesn't
<ogra_> popey, how so ?
<popey> by updates we're talking about OTA system settings updates right?
<davmor2> popey: I upgrade to 119
<ogra_> it still replaces the readonly images
<popey> how are you updating?
<davmor2> ogra_: I still have htop installed on the phone
<popey> then it didnt update
<davmor2> popey: over the air this morning
<popey> ergo updates broke
<ogra_> popey, they didnt
<ogra_> if davmor2 has vibration the upgrade got applied
<popey> hm
<davmor2> popey: but I got haptic feedback which I didn't have before
<popey> i had writable_image on last week and did an OTA update and it didnt update even though I did it multiple times
<davmor2> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# system-image-cli -i
<davmor2> current build number: 119
<davmor2> device name: maguro
<davmor2> channel: devel-proposed
<davmor2> alias: trusty-proposed
<davmor2> last update: 2014-01-09 09:17:54
<davmor2> version version: 119
<davmor2> version ubuntu: 20140109
<ubot5> Error: Ubuntu bug 20140109 could not be found
<popey> i rm'ed the file and restarted and then updates worked again
<davmor2> version device: 20140107.1
<ogra_> davmor2, dpkg -l htop
<ogra_> ;)
<popey> i was always under the impression that making it writable makes updates no longer work, did that change or has that never been the case?
 * ogra_ bets you dont have it installed ... despite the binary being there in some writable space
<davmor2> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# dpkg -l htop
<davmor2> dpkg-query: no packages found matching htop okay weird
<ogra_> popey, making it writable will break stuff once you upgrade
<ogra_> like resetting the package db
<davmor2> ogra_: so htop runs but isn't installed what
<popey> the binary is installed
<ogra_> or for complex packages that install stuff in multiple locations i the ro area they need it will cause breakage
<davmor2> okay I think I get it now, so htop was installed, but the packagedb got replaced so as far as the system is concerned it isn't installed.  So in order to get back to a sane system I would need to do a phablet-flash right?
<popey> or
<popey>     adb shell rm /userdata/.writable_image
<popey>     adb shell system-image-cli --build 0
<popey> do that
<ogra_> asac, tvoss ... http://paste.ubuntu.com/6720246/
<ogra_> seems we use oom_adj on the ubuntu side but also have lowmemorykiller enabled without configuring it at all (beyond the kernel defaults)
<asac> ogra_: cool :)
<tvoss> ogra_, yup, that's what I was referring to yesterday
<ogra_> i assume that might have some influence on our behavior
<asac> ogra_: i really believe someone just needs to go and tweak config values until things are nice :).... did you guys discuss this yesterday on the team meeting?
<asac> e.g. who will drive this in your team?
<ogra_> asac, no, thats my own little research from today :)
<asac> ogra_: no discussion on yesterdays standup? hmmm
<ogra_> i'll bring it up today
<tvoss> ogra_, we should start tuning minfree first, and then look into oom_adj banding
<ogra_> i mentioned it in the standup but we had no discussion
<asac> ogra_: thanks. thats what folks promissed me yesterday already ...
<tvoss> asac, I'm working on unity-mir right now to make this more testable
<ogra_> well, i wonder if we should touch oom_adj at all
<asac> :)
<tvoss> ogra_, I'm not sure either, min_free might well be enough
<tvoss> ogra_, but the shell and the OomController in there has to be aware of the settings, too
<asac> tvoss: from what i understand those values can be runtime tweaked without reboot?
<tvoss> asac, yup
<ogra_> seems android doesnt do that ...
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> currently we force the session to -10 with the lightdm setting
<tvoss> ogra_, right
<ogra_> asac, they can
<ogra_> you can just echo into the sysfs node
<asac> with that it feels easy to just play around with these values for a day; of course requires someone who knows which values can be tweaked and what they really do :)
<asac> so that disqualifies me :P
<ogra_> sadly thats about all documentation that exists about this thing
<asac> but guess its not that simple as we have to fix bugs in unity and elsewhere alongside
<ogra_> at least i cant find anything
<tvoss> ogra_, the android java source code provides some insight, too
<asac> as this was never really finished
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> but we'll need it for release
<asac> for sure
<asac> tvoss: maybe we could isolate the app lifecycle code baking by changing the heuristic to always kill all apps that go in background?
<ogra_> that will make app switching really slow i suppose
<asac> in this way we probably can work on fixing sdk/apps etc. while we somehow figure those memory pressure thresholds
<ogra_> as long as we have ram we should make use of it
<tvoss> asac, I think we hide more issues than we solve with that
<ogra_> sending sigstop has influence on latency
<asac> well, we can bake the app logic independent from the memopry pressyure thing
<asac> i wouldnt change it in the build
<tvoss> asac, so you want to force baking app logic by always killing them?
<tvoss> asac, or make it easily reproducible by devs?
<asac> baking app serialize/restore logic
<asac> make it easy to set such a mode
<asac> not by default of course
<tvoss> asac, I will take a look, but as a last resort, apps can be manually killed from the lens
<asac> right now i see that we have to understand those kernel parameters to get the right memory pressure behaviour that will automatically trigger kiling etc.
<asac> on top we have to ensure that killing and bringing back to life works
<tvoss> asac, sure
<tvoss> asac, and I agree that both are to a certain degree independent
<asac> yeah. just thinking out louad that we could already give a reproducible problem to app folks
<asac> while we figure the rest
<tvoss> asac, yup, we should hand over that information to the apps team and to the core apps devs
<ogra_> we need to find the right compromise imho
<tvoss> ogra_, sure, but that's only one part of the task as asac pointed out
<ogra_> yeah
<asac> tvoss: so what are the values you said need tweaking?
<tvoss> hmm, I assume that the pagesize on arm is 4kb?
<tvoss> asac, the min_free values in /sys/module/lowmemorykiller/parameters/minfree
<tvoss> asac, they represent thresholds of memory that are available and android oom killer kicks in if a threshold is reached
<asac> tvoss: what values do we have?
<tvoss> asac, 1536,2048,4096,16384
<tvoss> in [# pages]
<asac> ogra posted: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6720246/
<asac> tvoss: so 64M?
<asac> do our apps have oom_adj 12?
<tvoss> asac, the latter I'm checking right now
<tvoss> asac, I don't think so
<asac> tvoss: how can i see that value?
<asac> ah nevermind
<tvoss> asac, for a given process, you can just cat /proc/pid/oom_adj
<asac> found it in /proc
<tvoss> yup
<ogra_> asac, all of the session should inherit from the lightdm.conf value
<asac> and where is that set?
<asac> do we do that in upstart?
<ogra_> yes
<ogra_> see the last line of my paste
<asac> so child pids get the same as parents by default?
<tvoss> asac, yup
<ogra_> forked child processes do
<asac> ogra_: do you have an app running? do you get -10 for that?
<tvoss> asac, ogra_ be careful: lightdm sets oom_score_adj, which is _not_ oom_adj
<asac> hmm
<asac> ogra_: so what value do you get in /proc/$PID/ooem_adj ?
<asac> for an app
<tvoss> oom_adj is actually deprecated, oom_score_adj has got -1000 -> 1000
<ogra_> (now the question is if everything is a fork here)
<asac> 10000?
<ogra_> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# cat /proc/$(pidof unity8)/oom_adj
<ogra_> 0
<asac> ogra_: right. what about an app?
<ogra_> so that seems wrong
<tvoss> ogra_, you need to cat oom_score_adj
<tvoss> ogra_, nope, that's most likely correct
<ogra_> tvoss, ah, thanks
<ogra_> thats indeed -10
<ogra_> lets see an app
<ogra_> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# cat /proc/2346/oom_score_adj
<ogra_> 1
<ogra_> thats the file manager
<ogra_> thats correct too (apps should be higher than unity)
<ogra_> but what does the lowmemorykiller make out of that ?
<tvoss> ogra_, can you please cat oom_adj for the file manager?
<ogra_> asac, oh, btw, even though we didnt deeply discuss teh swap stuff in teh standup, we put app lifecycle on the sprint agenda as a high prio item
<ogra_> tvoss, 12
<tvoss> ogra_, that's weird, it shouldn't have that value
<tvoss> ogra_, oom_score_adj is scaled linearly to oom_adj
<asac> ogra_: right. but i wanted to get an owner and see progress now, not end of month
<ogra_> tvoss, well
<ogra_> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# cat /sys/module/lowmemorykiller/parameters/adj
<ogra_> 0,1,6,12
<tvoss> ogra_, that's the setup, not the actual values
<ogra_> there is 12 in the lowmemorykiller ... i guess that gets applied by default when an app starts
<tvoss> ogra_, I would be surprised if that was the case, let me add some debug output
<asac> tvoss: where are the actual values?
<tvoss> asac, of the individual processes? in /proc/pid/oom_adj and /proc/pid/oom_score_adj
<asac> so its 1 for apps. interesting
<tvoss> asac, oom_score_adj is 1 for apps, we have to look at oom_adj
<ogra_> and thats 12
<asac> k
<tvoss> ogra_, and that I don't understand
<asac> so this means we should see apps getting killed if less than 65m is available, correct?
<tvoss> asac, correct
<tvoss> ogra_, oom_score_adj is scaled from -1000 to 1000
<asac> are we able to observe/confirm that?
<tvoss> asac, from what ogra described yesterday: yes
<asac> so maybe changet that to something big (e.g. 150M) and see if at least the slowness goes away
<tvoss> ogra_, I saw a pastebin of the andorid oom killer kicking in yesterday, do you have that handy?
<ogra_> tvoss, aha ... webapps have totally different values
<tvoss> ogra_, yup, most likely because they are a process tree
<tvoss> ogra_, working on that, too
<ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6720377/
<asac> ogra_: what do webapps have?
<asac> yeah
<asac> bump that
<ogra_> 0 and 1
<asac> i believe they should be 15
<asac> and 150M for 15
<asac> hehe
<asac> tvoss: isnt unity supposed to change the adj value if the app is in foreground?
<ogra_> well, it should be the same as native apps
<ogra_> which is 12 currently
<asac> or how do we ensure that we dont kill foreground?
<tvoss> asac, sure
<asac> ogra_: is the webapp in the background?
<ogra_> no
<tvoss> asac, ogra_ https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/unity-mir/refactor-oom-score-adj-to-rely-on-process-cpp
<asac> ogra_: can you confirm that the value changes if you put it in background/foreground?
<tvoss> asac, ogra_  https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/unity-mir/refactor-process-group-operations-to-rely-on-process-cpp
<ogra_> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# cat /proc/2421/oom_score_adj
<ogra_> 800
<ogra_> thats in the background
<asac> right
<tvoss> that makes sense
<asac> so change the 12 value to 150M
<asac> instead of 64M
<asac> and see if slowness goes away
<asac> thats what i would try :_)
<tvoss> right, let's scale up the biggest bucket and see what happens
<ogra_> filemanager gets 800 too in bg
<asac> apps shouldnt be 12 inn foreground i guess
<asac> tvoss: maybe add another bucket 100?
<tvoss> asac, I would first scale up the 12-bucket to 32768
<tvoss> asac, pages, that is
<asac> tvoss: but that will apply to foreground apps :)
<asac> too
<asac> afaics
<ogra_> +12 vs -12 ?
<ogra_> :)
<asac> tvoss: how does this killer operate? does it always first the ones in a higher bucket first?
<asac> or is it randomly killing all that are beyond threshold regardless of the score?
<tvoss> asac, yup, it starts in the highest bucket and kills all process with oom_adj value of oom_adj value of respective bucket, or greater
<ogra_> tvoss, ok, using 32768 now ... opening the third webapp kills the first two that are open
<ogra_> thats worse than before
<asac> tvoss: so i think background apps should be in a higher bucket than the foreground ones
<asac> e.g. 12 is wrong for the foreground app
<asac> ogra_: sure it was 12?
<asac> e.g. the browser seems to be 0/1
<ogra_> asac, i didnt touch oom, only the page value
<asac> ogra_: no... you said above that an app in foreground as a score of 12
<asac> and background is 800
<ogra_> with 16384 i can have 4 webapps and only after a while the first one dies
<ogra_> with 32768 the first two reliably die when i start the third one
<tvoss> ogra_, hang on ... opening the third webapp means that the first two are in background
<ogra_> yes
<tvoss> ogra_, but that's expected, isn't it?
<Saviq> xnox, hey, I tried cross-building mir just now, and cmake about boost missing, -dev:armhf are installed, though - have you seen this?
<asac> ogra_: but foreground doesnt die?
<ogra_> tvoss, not sure, since they are completely dead and it takes about a minute on maguro to recover
<asac> ogra_: as long as the foreground app doesnt get slower before the background is killed we are fine
<ogra_> (restart the app)
<ogra_> asac, foreground never died
<tvoss> ogra_, sure, but that's the other problem asac mentioned: fast startup and recovery
<asac> right. i want to ensure that the foreground app is not getting slowe before killing the backgrounds due to too scarce memory
<ogra_> asac, but having more apps open makes all bg apps die and they take way to long to recover when you flick through them
<asac> and then just make the recovery fast and furious
<asac> ogra_: so all get killed?
<tvoss> ogra_, but that's not solvable by the system in the general case
<asac> not just one?
<tvoss> asac, we should put apps in different buckets according to how long they have been stopped
<ogra_> asac, foreground was never a problam
<ogra_> thats not our issue
<ogra_> stuff randomly dieing in the bg and not recovering is
<ogra_> (and keeping a thumbnail and entry in the "flick list")
<ogra_> asac, with the value change all bg apps get killed if i start the third webapp
<tvoss> ogra_, not recovering is the real problem here
<tvoss> ogra_, dying in the background is expected behavior
<asac> tvoss: but why do we kill all?
<ogra_> tvoss, dieing to fast is the other imho
<asac> not one?
<asac> tvoss: maybe we need an order (e.g. 800 801 802)?
<ogra_> asac, we donnt set different oom values
<tvoss> asac, right, what I said before: the longer in background, the higher the value
<ogra_> so all apps with the same value *can* get killed
<asac> tvoss: but seems ogra is observing that we always kill all in background
<tvoss> asac, with the aggressive page setting: yes
<asac> which feels wrongish if true
<asac> tvoss: which setting is that?
<tvoss> asac, minfree
<ogra_> asac, yes, because they have the exact same value
<ogra_> its like a lottery which app gets killed atm
<asac> so how can we change the values so that it kills the background apps one by one
<tvoss> asac, if the kernel cannot get past the threshold with killing one app, it goes on and keeps on killing
<ogra_> we should use a counter
<tvoss> asac, unity has to do that
<asac> tvoss: but we start the apps... they still life
<ogra_> each app that gets started gets +1 more
<asac> then we start one more app and all the other get killed
<tvoss> ogra_,  a counter is wrong, we have to sort the list of apps by time being put in background, and then assign values
<tvoss> otherwise we overflow
<tvoss> asac, ^
<ogra_> and then have some intelligent mechanism to raise based on bg state
<asac> that feels odd... i would assume that kiling one or two apps should be enough unless ogra launches a super BIG app :)
<ogra_> asac, only three webapps atm
<tvoss> asac, look at the web runtime's ram requriements ;) those are big apps
<asac> tvoss: right. so we have to adjust the values like 801 802 803
<asac> dynamically
<ogra_> but with the 32768 value set that tvoss proposed above
<tvoss> asac, right ... look at the mp's I pasted before
<ogra_> which makes everything more aggressive
<asac> ok fine
<tvoss> ogra_, right, which is too aggressive
<asac> ogra_: can you manually change a score to 802
<asac> and see if its the only one killed
<tvoss> asac, it kills 12 or higher :)
<asac> then we are done and can grow the highest bucket pages
<asac> and have app folks work on it
<ogra_> hmm, it is hard to find the right webapp in the processlist :P
<asac> tvoss: so with your patch it will kill apps one by one starting with app longest in background?
<ogra_> asac, the worse part is the minute it takes to recover from being kileld though
<asac> ogra_: yes, someone from apps/sdk has to look at that
<ogra_> thats the bit that counts for the bad experience
<asac> feels odd that it takes a minute :)
<asac> sure
<ogra_> well, maguro is sloow
<asac> my guess is that that we dont leave enough cache mem
<ogra_> mako might be less bad ... but it still takes to long
<asac> but still 1 min is super long
<asac> and probably something obvious
<ogra_> and i dont see a way how we can get it to a usable speed if the app starts from zero
<asac> even on maguro
<ogra_> (which involved reading from disk)
<tvoss> asac, right, it's a series of multiple mp's to enable that
<tvoss> ogra_, all other platforms achieve that, though
<ogra_> *involves
<asac> lets not worry too much
<tvoss> ogra_, and they serialize state to disk, not complete memory snapshots
<tvoss> asac, correct
<ogra_> tvoss, do others actually wipe the app from ram completely ?
<ogra_> so that it needs to start from disk again ... at zero
<tvoss> ogra_, sure, iOS is really aggressive in doing that. Their lifecycle is strict, too
<tvoss> ogra_, and android does it, too
<ogra_> then they must have a really fast filesystem or something
<asac> 1min is obviously bogus
<asac> and sommething obvious is buggy there
<asac> like a big sleep
<asac> or something
<asac> it doesnt take 1min to start the app for first time
<asac> either
<asac> (i hope :))
<tvoss> ogra_, they just are clever about the resurrection
<asac> lets write instructionms how to reproduce the kill/restart behaviour
<asac> and send a mail so that app/sdk folks can jump on this
<ogra_> or cache it somewhere so that you can speedier re-start than start
<ogra_> asac, it nearly does take 1min here with i.e. the n-tv webapp
<asac> well. if we leave more cache available in mem by increasing the highest bucket like tvoss suggested
<ogra_> asac, it sits quite long on a white screen
<asac> we probably might keep the binaries/code in mem and it will be faster
<ogra_> (on maguro that is)
<asac> anyway. someone has to look where we loose the time .everthing else is just guessing
<tvoss> asac, let's not get ahead of ourselves here
<ogra_> asac, there is research going on about app startup slowness in general ... that will surely help
<ogra_> but i think that wont be enough
<tvoss> ogra_, for webapps, it's special though
<ogra_> sure
<tvoss> ogra_, as it is multi-process: we surely could just display the UI even though the rendering process is not finished loading, yet
<ogra_> still, the apps are not in sync with the flicking gesture
<asac> tvoss: is there a command that we could give to app devs to kill/resume apps?
<tvoss> ogra_, well, maguro is not the best test bed for that
<asac> i think that would help a lot ... just tell them to run that and make that fast as a first step
<asac> fast/robust
<tvoss> asac, I would propose to use the apps lense
<ogra_> and i dont see a way how we can get it fast enough to not behave badly (showing a white screen, or only the fade out animation for a while until the app started again)
<asac> how?
<tvoss> asac, long press on app, hit red small button
<asac> tvoss: that quits the app
<tvoss> asac, yup
<asac> is that really the same?
<tvoss> asac, it kills the app
<asac> as in "identical codepath/behavioyur"?
<asac> tvoss: but closing app doesnt serialize, does it?
<ogra_> tvoss, yeah
<ogra_> tvoss, something like the compizs "greyed out" thing
<ogra_> keep the thumbnail around even if the app is dead etc
<ogra_> show it greyed in the UI until the app is actually there to replace it again
<tvoss> asac, I have to check
<tvoss> ogra_, sure, that's the sort of cleverness we need to implement
<ogra_> well, its not cleverness
<asac> i really think if we had a command that juust triggers the real code path for killing etc. it would be much easier to get traction
<ogra_> its a hack ...
<ogra_> like progressbars are ;)
<asac> also easier to maybe integrate/automate in utah
<asac> like a test that kills/resume the app etc.
<ogra_> but it will fix the user impatience
<tvoss> ogra_, I wouldn't call that a hack ... but anyway
<asac> well, thats what we do. we need to be as fast as possible and also lie a bit on UI side to not show whitescreen
<ogra_> tvoss, well, like rogressbars are hacks :)
<ogra_> to fill a time gap
<asac> ogra_: its a valid UI mean to provide user feedback on longer running activities
<tvoss> ogra_, what would be the solution? zero-time-data transfer ... unlikely to happen this century
<tvoss> asac, @script: I will see what we can do
<tvoss> asac, as an intermediate step: killing from the lens at least forces a clean restart
<ogra_> asac, its a UI hack to work around infrastructural slowness (with a 1TB internet connection you wont need progressbars)
<tvoss> asac, if that is fast enough, resurrection with state should be faster, too
<tvoss> ogra_, how do you deal with imperfect infrastructure then? if you don't want to hack something?
<ogra_> tvoss, indeed, its not a bad hack ... but after all its a hack to calm the user ;)
<ogra_> asac, longer running activities are infrastuctural bugs that hardware will fix at some point in time ;)
<tvoss> ogra_, okay, with that argument: a whitescreen is fine for you ;)
<tvoss> ogra_, just wait for faster hw ;)
<ogra_> tvoss, i dont say hacks are bad (look at my code :P )
<ogra_> and progrressbars are sadly still a requirement to work around todays world ... that doesnt make them less of a hack imho :)
<xnox> Saviq: let me try here, and check what's going on.
<ogra_> anyway, lets do something compiz like or similar for covering the delay the restart of the app takes
<Saviq> xnox, I had to export BOOST_LIBRARYDIR, and set PKG_CONFIG_EXECUTABLE
<Saviq> xnox, and that's as far as I've got... it has some funky use of the PkgConfig module :/
<davmor2> tvoss: should haptic be on for the keyboard too?  currently only seems to work on button presses for the scopes and in odd places in apps
<xnox> Saviq: argh, yeah, that should not be necessary =(
<tvoss> davmor2, you would have to check with the keyboard guys
<ogra_> davmor2, that most likely requires a kbd upload which didnt happen since yesterday
<tvoss> davmor2, the qtubuntu sensors package only exposes the plugin
<ogra_> (even if there is code it wouldnt have landed yet)
<xnox> Saviq: so a bug in cmake stuff probably, will look into fixing it. Mir did cross-compile with no packaging changes.
<Saviq> xnox, ok thanks - I wonder if something changed in mir recently, too
<xnox> Saviq: i'll work it out.
<davmor2> ogra_, tvoss: thanks seems odd that the haptic is everywhere but where you expect it to be :)  but it does make it feel nicer :)
<Saviq> xnox, do you know how long it should take for -dbgsym packages to reach ddebs.u.c?
<Saviq> xnox, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mir/0.1.3+14.04.20140108-0ubuntu1 got built 20h ago and the -dbgsym are still not there on ddebs
<xnox> Saviq: as I far as I understand, it should be roughly same time as they hit archive.ubuntu.com. But check with pitti, he knows that system better.
<Saviq> xnox, thanks, will do
<ogra_> tvoss, can we have different vibration for different things ? seems it is the same length etc for everything atm
<ogra_> tvoss, i would expect a keystroke on the kbd to give me a different (shorter) vibration than ... say... clicking an icon in the dash
<tvoss> ogra_, the plugin supports different vibration length .. so might be that some values need to be tuned
<ogra_> cool
<ogra_> as long that the low level is capable the rest is polish ...
<davmor2> ogra_, tvoss: also I don't expected the power of the vibrations to be the same currently it feels like it is full on but that might be down to timing again
<tvoss> davmor2, sure, let's see
<lool> cjwatson: oh yeah, the directory with alternate libs is what I had in mind, not a full debootstrap or anything
<lool> also needs to support dlopen and such though
<lool> cjwatson: so do we want to fight the ABI compatibility battle on qt 5?  I will check with slangasek too as he commented on the Debian transition, but it seems fairly intrusive, impacting a lot of packages
<lool> cjwatson: the other question is what changes in click would be necessary
<Saviq> pitti, hey, any idea why -dbgsyms for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mir/0.1.3+14.04.20140108-0ubuntu1 didn't reach ddebs.u.c yet?
<cjwatson> lool: I think slangasek is probably right, all things considered - change package name but not soname
<cjwatson> lool: click shouldn't need to be changed, but the app launch code might
<cjwatson> lool: is dlopen really an issue in practice?
<cjwatson> for click packages?
<lool> cjwatson: for qt modules
<lool> cjwatson: qml modules and qt plugins
<cjwatson> right
<cjwatson> it's not trivial but I think it's tractable
<lool> Hmm I guess I should setup something with SDK team to discuss
<lool> Mirv: ^
<lool> to agree on launch code, directory layout for apps that want to support multiple runtimes and such
<Saviq> mardy, somewhat hoping you're caring for the family and are not around, but: apparently my telepathy accounts are not "understood" by online-accounts any more (there's no icons, I can't seem to change the details, or add a new jabber account)
<Saviq> mardy, any idea what might've caused that?
<mardy> Saviq: babies are sleeping :-)
<mardy> Saviq: you are talking about the desktop, right?
<Saviq> mardy, yes
<mardy> Saviq: it looks like the corresponding account-plugin-* package has been removed
<mardy> Saviq: we should handle that more gracefully, agreed :-)
<Saviq> mardy, what's the package name?
<Saviq> ah, got them!
<mardy> Saviq: every protocol has its own plugin. The one for jabber is account-plugin-jabber
<Saviq> mardy, is there a meta-package that pulls it in (Recommends?)?
<mpt> seb128, done. <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AboutThisDevice?action=diff&rev2=19&rev1=18>
<seb128> mpt, thanks
<mardy> Saviq: apt-cache rdepends account-plugin-jabber
<mardy> Saviq: the Online Accounts plugin for telepathy-mission-controls pulls that in
<nik90> tvoss: ping
<tvoss> nik90, pong
<mardy> Saviq: but I didn't walk the dependency chain further :-)
<Saviq> mardy, thanks, it's looking better already :)
<nik90> tvoss: I was told by popey that I should talk to you about waking/unlock the device when an alarm snap decision pops up.
<nik90> tvoss: the snap decision part is currently being worked, but that should only provide the notification part.
<nik90> tvoss: what would it take to add support to ensure that the device is unlocked/woken up when the notification is trigered?
<tvoss> nik90, you mean from deep sleep?
<nik90> tvoss: if you mean deep sleep as the state when a user locks the phone then yes
<tvoss> nik90, well, I meant even deeper :) but for the locked state: I would need to check back with design on that. On my list
<nik90> tvoss: my requirement would be quite similar to the use call of a user receiving a phone call.
<nik90> use case*
<tvoss> nik90, right, understood. Both should use the same infrastructure. But just to make sure: It won't be the clock app triggering the snap decision
<tvoss> nik90, but the alarm service doing that, correct?
<nik90> tvoss: that's correct. the alarm service (indicator date-time) is the one triggering the notification and not the clock app.
<tvoss> nik90, okay, cool then. As I said: on my list, will come back to you asap
<nik90> tvoss: In that case, I will update my email regarding the alarms work items to keep track of this. Thnx
<tvoss> nik90, yup, thank you
<Mirv> lool: yes, bzoltan1 would definitely want to be part of the discussions
<bzoltan1> I am all here
<lool> bzoltan1: this is about providing backwards compat with the apps
<bzoltan1> lool, cjwatson: we had a long discussion with Mirv about the 5.2 -5.0 Qt co-installation
<bzoltan1>  lool: I am familiar with the topic
<lool> seems we've lost the battle of backwards compat of qt 5; should have changed the SONAME or not break the ABI
<lool> but it seems too late now
<lool> so we need to plan for an alternative approach
<lool> Mirv: Perhaps one thing you want to explore on the qt5 packaging front is how to provide an old-ABI qt 5 biuld
<lool> Mirv: do you want to base it of qt 5.2?  as a separate source package?  or on top of qt 5.0 with a separate source package?
<bzoltan1> lool: What is important to understand is that creating co-installable Qt 5.0 and 5.2 on a known distro way would be a lengthy and expensive task.. Not impossible, but I would estimate it about 2-3 months work of a full time packaging/Qt expert
<Mirv> lool: the problem is right now I'd like some 3rd party to look at that, since this Qt 5.2 trusty rebuilds alone are taking all my time (+ landing integration). if we'd really want old ABI also on trusty, I don't know how to do that without renaming all Qt packages and their conents and then a separate source packages * 20 for Qt 5.0
<Mirv> or then the completely different approaches of supporting old ABI aside from doing full system level packaging changes
<Mirv> so in Debian there was now a single binary package rename which helps in this transition to Qt 5.2, but it does not help in co-installing different minor versions of Qt 5
<seeks> hey guys
<seeks> I have a problem, I try to restore android after failed ubuntu install so I want to restore my BACKUP with 'adb restore backup.ab' but I can unlock my device since I can't even boot it anymore. Any fix?
<sergiusens> seeks, go to fastboot; run the factory reset script (get the factory image first and extract it); boot android; restore the backup once developer mode is reenabled
<sergiusens> seeks, https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images
<seeks> thanks but I can't initiate fastboot
<sergiusens> seeks, how so?
<seeks> during the ubuntu install after asking me ''ROM may flash stock recovery on boot fix?' I chose no then it restarted with the google sign and since there is only the battery and it doesnt react to anything, can see id in adb devices though
<seeks> I would like to try ubuntu anyway but since I can't boot I guess it is not going to work now
<sergiusens> seeks, powerof, then power + vol up + vol down
<seeks> ok
<sergiusens> seeks, what device?
<seeks> galaxy nexus
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> maguro needs battery remmoval
<ogra_> you need to pull it out and then boot without cable attached
<ogra_> else it goes into a weird "i'm still charging, la la la" state
<seeks> ok it's stuck I guess, no powering doen only the battery sign charging even when not plugged in
<seeks> ok NVM
<seeks> I"ll do it now
<pitti> http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/m/mir/
<pitti> Saviq: they are here ^
<seeks> lol after battery removal and reboot Ubuntu is working
<seeks> thx xxd
<ogra_> heh
<Saviq> pitti, hmm not in http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/dists/trusty/main/binary-armhf/Packages for some reason?
<pitti> Saviq: if they were only copied a few hours ago, index generation might not have caught up yet
<pitti> hm, 22 hours ago
<Saviq> pitti, yeah
<pitti> Saviq: err, I do see them in that index
<pitti> Package: libmirplatform-dbgsym
<pitti> Version: 0.1.3+14.04.20140108-0ubuntu1
<Saviq> pitti, libmirserver12-dbgsym, though?
<pitti> libmirserver12 | 0.1.3+14.04.20140108-0ubuntu1 | trusty/universe | amd64, armhf, i386
<pitti> it's in universe, whoever binNEWed it put it into the wrong component
<pitti> and somehow there's no dbgsym for it
<pitti> I mean, it's in http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/m/mir/, not in /universe
 * pitti fixes the component
<pitti> Saviq: ^ done; should catch up in a few hours; until then, grab the ddeb manually
<pitti> http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/m/mir/libmirserver12-dbgsym_0.1.3+14.04.20140108-0ubuntu1_armhf.ddeb
<Saviq> pitti, yeah, should've checked there before
<Saviq> pitti, thanks
<pitti> Saviq: it's even on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt
<Saviq> pitti, anything to be done for that to not happen next time?
<pitti> Saviq: usually archive admins fix the mismatches every now and then
<pitti> Saviq: I suppose it wasn't actually binNEWed manually, as the copying from the PPA circumvents that
<pitti> so, it could/should be fixed in that machinery
<Saviq> pitti, ok, will just notify the landing team to make sure they're aware, then
<Saviq> didrocks, Mirv ââ
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, binary copy is copying to universe
<didrocks> pitti: and even if promoted in the proposed pocket, it's demoted in the release pcoket
<didrocks> pocket*
<didrocks> not due to cu2d unfortunatelyâ¦
<asac> lool: bzoltan1: so what will we do now about qt?
<asac> can you give me a summary of what the agreed course of action is?
<seb128> how many packages do we have in the app store using compiled code that would be impacted by the ABI change?
<seb128> can't we just rebuild/migrate those automatically?
<ogra_> seb128, we dont build them, devs upload binary clicks to the store
<seb128> how many of those have compiled code?
<seb128> the ABI change probably doesn't impact on pure qml right?
<asac> lool: bzoltan1: so first i think this was a mistake on our side to even ship it as float last release
<asac> it was known that they wanted to fix this to be a double
<ogra_> seb128, popey or boiko might know ...
<asac> with that, i believe we have to stay on float
<ogra_> err beuno ... sorry boiko
<asac> unless we want to learn how to distribute two point releases of QT on our images
<popey> ogra_: i dont
<bzoltan1> asac: what do you mean by float?
<ogra_> asac, that will break stuff like skype on the desktop
<asac> ogra_: yeah. we wouldnt use the same name
<davmor2>  when does the agps stuff land losing 15 minutes for an initial gps connection is losing it's charm now :)
<beuno> what what?
<asac> bzoltan1: qreal == double in the new world
<asac> in old world it was float on arm
<asac> which is super awful
<asac> especially since i remember tryint to land it as double preemptively int he distro like 3 years ago :)
<davmor2> beuno: you are not an English aristocrat you can't pull off wearing the monocle
<asac> ogra_: not sure about skype... they ship their own qt anyway
<beuno> seb128, we can't/don't rebuild on the server
<asac> but yeah. we woul dhave to use our own namespace
<beuno> we do have some compiled apps
<ogra_> asac, well, there are more third party Qt apps
<seb128> asac, was 13.10 really a real-world-user product/supported? or can we just deal with doing an incompatible change once, with the understanding we can't do that again once we have real products out?
<beuno> they declare a framework version, and if that's going to break, we need to introduce a new one
<asac> so for us on touch the primary objective is to ensure binary compatibility for our apps
<beuno> so we'd introduce 13.10.1 framework
<beuno> which we're already figuring out the details on how to do
<asac> seb128: its setting precedence that we need to be very careful about
<asac> and take this opportunity to take measures that this never happens again if we say that we doing a one time break of our just-starting-to-grow application community
<bzoltan1> seb128:  no it does not
<ogra_> seb128, well, it was a developer product to guarantee devs a stable base thats always compatible :P
<dobey_> beuno: 14.04 will have to declare a different framework anyway, just because there is new API. 13.10 might work on it, but anything using new API won't work on 13.10
<ogra_> so they have something reliable non-moving to base their development on
<beuno> yes, you can introduce 14.04 instead of 13.10.1
<beuno> the store will filter them out for users so things don't break for them
<seb128> ogra_, well, it seems like the choices are "stay forever on a buggy ABI | do a transition/incompatible change | spend lot of efforts on creating a stack for the old ABI for some users"
<beuno> and this is a good opportunity to iron out this process
<seb128> ogra_, so it's a cost benefit, I would hate to be stucked forever on a wrong ABI just because we want to preserve a few apps from our first version
<ogra_> seb128, yeah, i#m happy i dont have to make that decision :P
<didrocks> you should know that we already removed some API
<dobey> we also need a way to get the framework version from the system
<dobey> from any language, not just qt/qml
<didrocks> was discussed last November and acked by pat
<asac> but this has to end
<asac> if we never stop doing it, we wont know if we even can do it
<asac> so now the impact on our app ecosystem might be marginal
<asac> but what happens if this happens 1 or two years ahead? will we have taken all the precautions
<asac> that we dont have to kill those apps that use the APIs we dont like anbymore?
<beuno> yes, lets please stop and iron out the proper process
<didrocks> I agree, that was my argument, and I think Pat had to action to write clearly and document the breakage + a procedure
<beuno> right
<asac> thanks beuno :)
<beuno> we've been discussing that
<beuno> and working on how to support this seamlessly
<beuno> here's an example on how it would work: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-appstore-developers/msg00650.html
<seb128> asac, beuno: well, we should sure not doing it again, it seems like an early day mistake
<asac> seb128: thats a very simplistic/naive way to look at it
<seb128> asac, beuno: we know the proper solution, "create a stack of package for the old ABI", it's just a lot of work and the number of user/benefit seems not worth it atm
<asac> seb128: we do mistakes now and we will do in future. also its not really a mistake, its something that happened outside our power
<asac> so it can happy any time at any place in our stack
<seb128> asac, you can decide to spent 1 month of engineering time and get it done, but we have better thing to do atm
<beuno> seb128, I see your point. The question is, wouldn't we get benefits from ironing out the process on migrating from framework versions, though?
<asac> i haven't heard the complete stoory
<beuno> especially now that it's low risk
<asac> it surely is more than juust doing the packaging. the whole sdk/api versioning etc.
<asac> needs to be looked at
<seb128> beuno, well, we know the process/we can sort that out without doing the actual work to rename/duplicate/upload/review 30 sources
<asac> how do we ship an SDK that allows folks to build against two different qt ABIs ?
<seb128> asac, we are sort of screwed up there because Debian/upstream decided to change the ABI without the soname
<seb128> I hope it's a one time thing
<seb128> Debian is not going to do that again once qt5 has users for them
<seb128> it's price for being earlier users
<asac> seb128: so it was a debian decision>? not even upstream>?
<ogra_> asac, it was an upstream decision
<seb128> upstream has a part in it for sure, not sure if we can talk to them about changing soname properly next time
<ogra_> debian just follows
<asac> so i remember talking about this with qt management back in linaro
<ogra_> and in fact the ubuntu-arm team has some fault in it
<seb128> but the packaging situation is screwed because debian decided to do it "the easy way" because they don't have rdepends
<asac> they siad that binary cross distro compatibility is something they would love to see
<ogra_> we whined to upstream about it for years ...
<asac> but that they realized cant be the reality anyway
<seb128> well, usually Debian would rename their binaries at least in such cases
<ogra_> since there were bad patching times every time we opened a new cycle to get the QReal stuff right on arm
<seb128> my understanding is that didn't do it because they don't have rdepends for it atm
<asac> ogra_: right. and while whining they clearly stated
<lool> asac: I also consider it a valid option that we revert the ABI change but go to 5.2
<lool> asac: I find it completely silly from upstream to do this change on ARM 32-bits at this point
<asac> that there is no intention to ewven shoot for cross distro compatiublity on ARM :_)
<lool> they could have done it for ARM 64-bits, and everything would have been fine
<asac> lool: i fully agree
<asac> i think the binary compatibility is a myuth
<asac> and if someone packages proprietary software he will surely first follow ubuntu
<lool> now we face this dilemma of breaking compat across GNU/Linux distros and with upstream
<asac> so we can really decide on our own what is best
<lool> so IMO the options are to either revert the ABI change in 5.2, or add a mechanism to allow us to ship old ABIs
<lool> the latter preserves compat with Debian and upstream
<lool> and can be reused for latter changes
<asac> lool: are we illing to put two qt versions in the image ?
<lool> it means we can be lazy and focus on other things
<asac> so, if the only choice is: 1. put two qt versions in, 2. backout change upstream
<asac> what would we do?
<lool> asac: I think it's doable, but it is /some/ work
<pmcgowan> lool, I have another proposal I am considering
<ogra_> asac, ... until they do a major ABI bump ...
<asac> ogra_: if we do a bump that is incomptable
<asac> we will have to ship two versions anyway
<asac> unless we declare the then existing app ecosystem redundant :)
<lool> pmcgowan: I'm suspended to your lips
<lool> or fingers rather
<asac> pmcgowan: go ahead :)
<ogra_> asac, sure
 * beuno watches as the conversation takes a weird turn
<pmcgowan> asac, lool lets this one time simply drop qt 5.0
<pmcgowan> where is the dependency? 12 apps? or is it more
<ogra_> asac, i was just re-caping what upstream said back then ... they didnt want to do it until the next major ABI bump ... which should theoretically have been 5.0 though
<pmcgowan> this qt 5.2 abi issue is a one time thing, which makes sense
<lool> pmcgowan: I find it's a pretty bad precedent
<seb128> pmcgowan, +1, that's what I was suggesting, we are not going to have the luxury to do that again but it seems stupid to spend so much efforts/doing something wrong for the futur just to preserve some 10 apps
<lool> this is what we've been doing for years
<pmcgowan> we are early enough in the cycle to do it this time, and not after 14.04
<seb128> well, it's a cost/benefit thing
<lool> but e.g. Android apps work for years after a release, and we can't even keep apps working for 6 months
<beuno> I don't think it's for the 10 apps, I think it's to iron out the process of handling this properly
<pmcgowan> also qt 5.2 qreal change is an excpetion
<lool> beuno: exactly
<pmcgowan> I find this is too costly and divergent to do this time
 * beuno nods
<seb128> beuno, ironing the process != doing all the work once defined
<lool> Yes it's costly
<beuno> right
<lool> the cost comes from breaking the ABI
<seb128> well, there is also the issue that Debian decided to not rename
<lool> but we value our app developers more than the costs incurred by a stable ABI commitment
<seb128> because they have no rdepends
<seb128> that's not going to happen again
<beuno> so the cost/benefit balance needs a judgement call
<seb128> so the situation is unique in that regard
<lool> seb128: Debian will break ABI again
<lool> and agian
<seb128> and they will rename next time
<lool> it's not unique
<lool> the qreal transition might be
<seb128> because that's what they do when they have rdepends
<pmcgowan> lool, I will have the current app set reviewed to see how many are effected and who the authors are
<seb128> lool, the "non renaming because no rdepends" is what is unique
<lool> seb128: the thing is that Debian can reupload all the software in Debian
<lool> and we can reupload everything in the Ubuntu archive
<lool> but we cant reupload the app store's clicks
<seb128> lool, well, Debian would rename if the lib has users
<lool> it's not about the renaming vs. not renaming
<seb128> so next time they are not going to handle it the same way
<lool> Debian took a decision based on what's in the Debian archive
<seb128> well, that makes a difference on the "how do we ship 2 versions of qt in the archvie"'
<lool> and Debian has control over the contents of the Debian archive
<beuno> pmcgowan, FWIW, I don't think it matters how many apps it affects at this point, I wouldn't use that as a tool to decide. I think it's easy to hand-hold however many there are at this point
<lool> if we break ABI now, we will break it again next cycle
<beuno> for me it's about working out the proper transition now that it's cheap
<lool> we will have the same discussion
<lool> even if there are 10 times more apps
<kenvandine> next cycle it will be much harder to deal with
<beuno> (cheap to make mistakes in the transition)
<davmor2> popey: I thought I had alarms in the clock app saving the other day, today they don't seem to be showing up
<pmcgowan> beuno, once I read all the posts and understood what the qt 5.2 breakage was about, it seemed to be quite an exception that caused us to be considering this
<lool> what's exceptional in theory is that qt breaks ABI
<pmcgowan> lool, I dont agree that making this decision sets any sort of precedent
<lool> when we picked it because we thought it wouldn't
<lool> but we knew e.g. qt 6 would break it
<pmcgowan> again the specific case is unique
<beuno> pmcgowan, right, I agree with that. This is more about there will be breakage each time in something different, as an exception each time, right?  That's how this works
<pmcgowan> gaining compatibility across OSes
<asac> pmcgowan: so in general I am fine to explicitely declare something like this a one-time-never-happen again event once I am convinced. however, I am not really convinced we have gone deep enough that we are confident that we know what to do with similar things in future
<lool> the situation is we told developers they could upload their apps to the appstore and the apps would work forever on Ubuntu Touch
<beuno> I'm happy if yoiu say we can't afford to do the work now, as we'll delay other core feature of the OS
<beuno> but we have to bite the bullet at some point
<pmcgowan> lool is we said forever we definitely lied ;)
<pmcgowan> beuno, thats really what I am saying
<lool> and it's been < 3 months since the release!  :-)
<pmcgowan> look at how many engineers are thinking about the problem
<lool> it's like saying we will delay the release this one time
<lool> Ok we did it once  :-)
<ogra_> pmcgowan, well, it was said in this channel about 6 months ago :)
<ogra_> so it must be true :P
<pmcgowan> lool, upstreams one time decision causes us to make a similar one time decision, I just don't think this implies anything for the future
<pmcgowan> ogra_, heh you have the log?
<pmcgowan> anyway thats my two cents
<lool> pmcgowan: difference is that if one of our upstreams makes a similar one time decision in each of our cycles, we're screwed
<lool> unless we firewall them somehow
<pmcgowan> lool, sure
<ogra_> pmcgowan, i bet i could find it if i invest the time :)
<lool> I will gladly admit that the fact it hits qt makes it much worse than anything else
<lool> due to the qml modules and such
<pmcgowan> lool, but I bet no other upstream would cause us this much pain, qt is too fundamental
<lool> perhaps libc would be worse, or moving away from linux but that's about it  ;-)
<pmcgowan> right!
<lool> pmcgowan: but we will face other qt ABI changes I'm sure
<lool> they will remove ABI
<lool> we will also see a qt 6
<lool> there will be ABI regressions
<kenvandine> lool, careful, you'll start a rumor that we'll rebase on bsd
<pmcgowan> their stated policy is the same as what we intend, so ...
<lool> kenvandine: ah crap, I had forgotten this was a public channel; we're doomed
<kenvandine> haha
<seb128> lool, well, we are going to have to deal with ABI changes one day for sure, the question is just to know if the current situation required us to divert so much effort to deal with it now
<lool> pmcgowan: you mean until they make exceptions to that policy?  ;-)
<kenvandine> i thought the expectation for click apps was it supported version 13.10 of the framework
<asac> seb128: i am of the position that our just-starting-to-thrive app ecosystem
<asac> is one of the most precious things we have
<kenvandine> apps would need updating for 14.04 of the framework
<pmcgowan> kenvandine, right, but we intended to support frameowrks for a longer period of time than 3 months
<asac> so we should really do whatever it takes to deliver a flawless experience for them
<seb128> asac, I guess it's a call we can make, we just need to decide where we find the resources/what other work we drop then
<kenvandine> pmcgowan, yes... so 13.10 might need a different version of qt
<asac> we can defer doing it, but i dont sense that people really have the same attitude and would be willing to do it without questioning next time it happens
<pmcgowan> I just dont see that implication
<pmcgowan> Qt upstream was fixing a fundamental inconsistency
<kenvandine> we wouldn't be able to do this when our app ecosystem is bigger
<pmcgowan> it was the right thing for  them, and for us ultimimately
<cyphermox> weird, with no connection the ap tests fail because webbrowser complains about the network even though localhost should be there anyway
<cyphermox> didrocks: ^ finishing up with webbrowser now... Mirv apparently released gallery earlier
<didrocks> cyphermox: yeah, I asked him
<didrocks> thanks
<cyphermox> it was fine to release anyway
<Shiggitay> Sooo rumors say that UT for the Nexus 5 is coming around Late January/Early February... can anyone confirm or deny that?
<asac> Shiggitay: thats a rumor.
<Shiggitay> And will it be the 1.0 that's out for all the other Nexus family members? or something more that'll benefit the other devces as well?
<Shiggitay> asac, oh? someone that had been porting UT for the N5 said that Canonical themselves made this announcement
<ogra_> Shiggitay, our kitkat based port will be ready by this time
<asac> Shiggitay: i am about to send a mail giving a heads up on our engineering platform roadmap... however, got detoured for a moment. just leech on ubuntu-phone ML. info will go out soonish
<ogra_> but that doesnt mean we will start building for N5 (we might but not support it etc)
<Shiggitay> ogra_, are you a canonical employee/rep?
<asac> Shiggitay: summary is that we go for android 4.4 in the timeframe you mentioned, but we wont move our focus away from the N4 to the N5
<ogra_> Shiggitay, i am, but asac makes the rules here :)
<Shiggitay> heh
<lool> asac, seb128: I think I'd be leaning towards keeping the old ABI
<lool> it's not a lot of work
<asac> Shiggitay: ogra is canonical, but I would encourage to not consider any statement anyone from IRC as an official position (regardless who says that :))
<lool> and we can transition as we see fit
<seb128> lool, "it's not a lot of work" ... if you say so ;-)
<asac> everybody is just doing their best and try to be as transparent and accurate as possible here :)
<ogra_> Shiggitay, we will likely just start rolling N5 images alongside, but nobody will focus on fixing or specifically working on them
<seb128> lool, I don't even see how you can ship 2 ABIs with the same soname
<lool> seb128: I mean, it's just reverting the qreal change
<pmcgowan> lool, seb128 I think its worth considering
<seb128> oh, in that sense
<seb128> so making Ubuntu binary impactible with others ?
<lool> seb128: the ABI change comes from a typedef change of qreal from float to double; one option is that we let Debian take this change but we dont
<lool> seb128: right
<Shiggitay> ogra_, with all due respect and all that, the n5 is prefect hardware for UT.... also wouldn't it work well with Convergence once 14.10 is out?
<seb128> I can't say I like that
<Shiggitay> perfect*
<seb128> but it's an option for sure
<pmcgowan> we need to weight the tradeoffs
<asac> seb128: exactly. thats what i mean. we dont know what we would do if we couldnt afford to break ABI, so i would either just do it right this time or at least go far deeper exploring the implications of that then what was done here so far
<lool> we'd be binary incompatible with upstream 5.2, Debian, other GNU/Linux but only on ARM; and we'd be binary compatible with 5.0
<lool> until, say, qt 6
<kevink1xwl> hello i would like  ubunut touch in my xperia u
<asac> so we know if there is anything we need to do now so we can react effectively in the likely or unlikely case that it happens again in some other form
<Shiggitay> but ok I think I just read that there will be UT images released soon for the N5... that's good news.
<ogra_> Shiggitay, the N5 is great and all, but it is very costly to enable a new arch and actually make it rock ...
<seb128> lool, I fear that's going to create more issues over qt5 time than biting the bullet
<asac> Shiggitay: i didnt say that :)
<seb128> we are locking ourself in a corner
<lool> seb128: what issues does it create?
<seb128> and we are not going to be able to easily get out
<ogra_> Shiggitay, and no, convergence requires laptop grade HW ... specifically more ram and diskspace than the N5 had
<ogra_> *has
<asac> Shiggitay: there wont be N5 builds coming for soon.
<Shiggitay> ah
<davmor2> tvoss: is haptic only enabled on phones on the n7 it doesn't seem to be there :(
<Shiggitay> ok
<lool> at least it makes close to no packaging delta
<seb128> lool, it makes use incompatible with potential closed source binaries distributed by upstreams
<lool> and it doesn't require a lot of time
<tvoss> davmor2, the n7 does not have a vibrator as far as I know
<pmcgowan> davmor2, I dont think n7 supports it
<Shiggitay> ogra_, I'd just like to give UT a try... I have an N5 and I'd rather not have to get an N7 or 10 to try it out.
<lool> seb128: things linked to qt but not built for Debian or Ubuntu specfically?
<ogra_> asac, we will likely enable them, just not care if they work (or integrate anything for them)
<lool> I guess it could be e.g. skype
<seb128> lool, right
<pmcgowan> hmm
<seb128> lool, that might be a small set today, but who knows in 3 years?
<asac> ogra_: dont do that please.
<ogra_> asac, just enabling them is cheap ... then lets see if the community wants to care for fixing ;)
<seb128> we might still be stucked by that decision
<asac> ogra_: both rsalveti and chicken confirmed we wont do that
<davmor2> tvoss, pmcgowan: that would do it then
<ogra_> asac, ok
<asac> ogra_: we dont want to ship anything that isnt an example of the excellent work we are doing. if we have those builds out, people will look at them and will get a bad experience
<ogra_> asac, *i* wont do anything anyway ... would be ricardo (i would just publish the images)
<Shiggitay> a perfect use of UT for me would be with these apps: Twitter, TuneIn Radio, something like MXPlayer or VLC, an iRC client, and a good web browser. That's my 'workflow' on Android and on iOS when I had it and it worked well
<kevink1xwl> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))   XPERIA U   UBUNTU TOUCH ES POSIBLE?
<asac> ogra_: good :)
<asac> thanks
<ogra_> asac, lol ... then we need to drop grouper and manta *now*
<asac> ogra_: yes.
<asac> ogra_: thats in the announce mail
<ogra_> kevink1xwl, stop shouting please ...
<pmcgowan> can we move manta to a community port? I really like mine
<ogra_> !devices | kevink1xwl
<ubot5> kevink1xwl: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<Shiggitay> ok fine.. instagram too
<rsalveti> yeah, we should still publish the images, but as community ports
<asac> we dont have a good way
<kevink1xwl> THANK
<ogra_> kevink1xwl, if it is not on there you might to have to port it yourself
<rsalveti> just not necessarily using the official channels
<Shiggitay> ooh do that with the N5 port!
<asac> rsalveti: fine with it if we have an official owner from community whose name we can attach
<rsalveti> asac: right
<ogra_> asac, well, thats a chicken/egg thing
<asac> so lets not do the builds, but rather offer community that they can work on them and come to us
<ogra_> if we provide crappy  images people will step up
<asac> havent seen that before
<ogra_> if we dont provide anything they wont
<rsalveti> I just think we should provide at least the infra, as that's not a huge thing for us anyway
<rsalveti> the build infra I mean
<asac> we can offer the infra, but we shouldnt set the build up before someone owning the build
<Shiggitay> in theory would an N5 build come out sooner if it gained more community support?
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> enabling another build is no work
<ogra_> (nearly)
<ogra_> as long as we dont commit to maintain it
<rsalveti> right, just put that on your email as well, asking if someone wants to own it
<asac> yeah. its a bit tricky though. if you want to own it you have to own the graphics stack as well
<asac> so you need skillls (TM) :)
<ogra_> Shiggitay, if someone takes responsibility
<ogra_> asac, huh ?
<rsalveti> well, we'll have support from the mir team as well
<rsalveti> once we officially drop sf
<ogra_> asac, the Mir team will have to support it anyway ... as other community ports
<Shiggitay> Someone was almost willing to release an alpha but they couldn't get the HWComposer or something like that working since apparently UT is based on Cyanogen Mod 10.2 or something?
<ogra_> if we decide that SF is gone, the Mir team support work will quadruple
<asac> they can support and teach
<asac> but not do
<Shiggitay> That's when he said that you guys are gonna release something late Jan/Early Feb
<ogra_> N5 is just another one then
<ogra_> but surely nothing community can do easily without their help
<Shiggitay> thus canceling his efforts to port FireFox OS
<Shiggitay> instead
<asac> Shiggitay: we will have android 4.4 support on N4 and N7 (razor() in that time frame...
<asac> that should make it relatively easy for community or later us to also bring up N5
<asac> but its not trivial to do, so we dont want to really tackle N5 until we need it for our short term engineering roadmap
<rsalveti> yup, once the 4.4 port is done, it'll be really easy to support n5
<Shiggitay> o i c
<ogra_> as i said in the beginning :)
<Shiggitay> so at the end of the month you'll be that much closer to getting stuff working on the N5?
<mhall119> Shiggitay: are you talking about Salvatore's porting effort?
<Shiggitay> I dunno his XDA name
<Shiggitay> hold on
<rsalveti> Shiggitay: yup
<rsalveti> working on it as we speak (4.4 porting)
<Shiggitay> rsalveti, cool
<mhall119> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+SalvatoreFestaTech/posts/e1XVkG1VTFV
<Shiggitay> if you need an alpha/beta tester @ rsalveti I can help
<mhall119> he's been working on a Nexus5 port for a little while now, but it stuck waiting on us to upgrade to 4.4
<Shiggitay> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2594874
<Shiggitay> that's the dude that canceled his port
<rsalveti> Shiggitay: sure, will do :-)
<Shiggitay> rsalveti, are you ValoXis ?
<Shiggitay> on XDA
<rsalveti> nops, rsalveti everywhere
<Shiggitay> k but you're gonna port UT to the N5 once your kitkat port is done?
<Shiggitay> and why port kitkat? it's already running just fine
<rsalveti> I'll create the image, someone has to test it :-)
<Shiggitay> not a developer.. .sorry... just trying to understand
<rsalveti> we use the android hardware abstraction layer
<Shiggitay> I'll test the  image
<rsalveti> and we're currently using the android hal from 4.2.2
<rsalveti> so that's why we need to forward port that in order to support newer devices, such as n5
<Shiggitay> ok so that's the pre-UT kernel layer or something?
<ogra_> it is the bit thtas needed to use the bianry drivers
<rsalveti> we're booting directly on ubuntu, and then we start the core layer of android in a container
<ogra_> *binary
<rsalveti> so we can use some core services and drivers
<Shiggitay> Ahh
<ogra_> graphics, modem, sensors and video codecs
<Shiggitay> so it's like having a minimal android system running solely for drivers, but the rest (UI etc) will be UT
<ogra_> right
<Shiggitay> ok I think understand now
<ogra_> that way we can just use the existing android drivers
<Shiggitay> yeah
<Shiggitay> without having to port any to UT specifically, right?
<ogra_> well, there are many bits you couldnt just ports
<ogra_> *port
<Shiggitay> basically emulating 4.4 with UT atop?
<ogra_> most of these drivers are nonfree ... and reverse engineering them would take years
<Shiggitay> oh wow
<ogra_> (without any public specification docs etc)
<Shiggitay> so in essence both OSes would be running at the same time, but really only the drivers would be accessed or something?
<ogra_> no, its not UT atop
<ogra_> its UT all the way ... and a container in which android gets started along the boot process
<ogra_> the ubuntu userspace talks to that container through a library
<ogra_> so everything that makes use of such a driver just talks to the driver as if it would be local ... but the lib redirects all this to the container
<Shiggitay> ok so just so I understand your efforts... it boots into KitKat's HAL to laod up drivers, and then UT boots, calling upon that HAL that'll have booted?
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> it boots into ubuntu
<ogra_> ubuntu starts a container with kitkat drivers (and all the bits the driver needs)
<Shiggitay> ok
<ogra_> and then ubuntu starts the UI which talks to the container
<Shiggitay> what would happen if it was to boot up without the HAL? nothing right?
<ogra_> (but the userspace and UI think they talk to local ubuntu drivers)
<Shiggitay> lol trickery
<ogra_> you wouldnt have graphics, modem, sensors and video playback
<ogra_> ti would boot to a adb shell in the ubuntu rootfs
<ogra_> (and a blank screen)
<Shiggitay> ok so you could play with it via ADB?
<Shiggitay> could you redirect the apps to load on an X Server or something on the client controling it/
<Shiggitay> ?
<ogra_> that would require other changes
<ogra_> the kernel is not set up in a way that you easily can run X
<ogra_> (well, on some devices it works, on most it doesnt)
<Shiggitay> wow this project is more complex than I had originally though :)
<ogra_> (really depends on the kernel config)
<Shiggitay> er thought*
<ogra_> and X wouldnt get you anywhere as the UI requires Mir
<Shiggitay> ok
<Shiggitay> I hope I'm not coming across as a troll or anything... I want to do anything I can to help this move along even I can't code for sh*t :)
<ogra_> you totally dont
<Shiggitay> good :)
<ogra_> all valid questions
<Shiggitay> cool
<Saviq> pitti, question: I just retraced a .crash from my desktop locally (I've Qt 5.0 installed), but the retracer seems to have picked up Qt 5.2 packages from a PPA I had added to sources.list, is that expected?
<Shiggitay> I appreciate your patience :)
<ogra_> :)
<Saviq> added to the retracer sources.list, that is
<pitti> Saviq: yes, it always takes the latest version from apt
<pitti> Saviq: it's been on my long-term wishlist to make that more clever and try and install the versions from Dependencies.txt
<pitti> Saviq: but never got to that
<Shiggitay> ogra_, another question for you: Once the KK HAL is ported, how likely would an HP Touchpad UT port become? someone had a halfway working port, but he abandoned it for a sailfish based project.
<Saviq> pitti, ok, was surprised, good to know, thanks
<ogra_> Shiggitay, well, depends who invests the time ... wouldnt be harder than porting to CM
<ogra_> (a lot easier in fact i think)
<ogra_> there is a link to the porting guide in the channel topic ... should give you a rough idea how much is involved
<Shiggitay> Okay. I have an HPTP, but it's not powerful enough for me anymore. lol
<Shiggitay> it'd be great if the "Nexus 8" aka LG GPad 8.3 was to get a UT port
<Shiggitay> xD
<Shiggitay> I'mma get one of those soon
<ogra_> well, the official focus from us will most likely be narrowed to one phone and one tablet for now
<ogra_> everything else has to be done by the community
<Shiggitay> yeah
<Shiggitay> so someone might indeed make a GPad port?
<Shiggitay> in due time?
<Shiggitay> I mean once the KK HAL base is ported to newer hardware won't porting UT itself be easier on any modern platform like the GPad 8.3?
<ogra_> just convine a community dev ...
<ogra_> or learn it yourself ;)
<Shiggitay> I have no coding knowledge at all
<ogra_> well, its not hrd to learn obviously ...
<ogra_> (by just doing it ;) )
<Shiggitay> if someone was to help me then I guess sure
<Shiggitay> am I right/wrong about what I said above?
<cwayne> dpm_: hey, gave you edit rights to that doc
<dpm_> thanks cwayne :)
<cwayne> dpm_: i'll go through and try to log some bugs today, as there's definitely some strings missing from the potfiles
<cwayne> dpm_: i've also rigged together a quick script to get percentage translated + missing strings from the .po's if that's helpful :)
<dpm_> cwayne, ok, thanks. At first look, do you think they're translatable string missing from the apps, or from some other parts of the system?
<cwayne> dpm_: almost entirely apps
<dpm_> cwayne, yeah, that's definitely helpful
<dpm_> ok
<cwayne> dpm_: for example, dialer-app and messaging-app have almost 0 translations
<cwayne> but most of the core click apps from the community (weather, calculator, et al) are actually quite well translated
<victorp> jdstrand, ping
<cwayne> dpm_: i'll try to get you a list of missing strings from that list of languages today
<jdstrand> victorp: hey
<Shiggitay> ogra_,  :)
<bambam_> hi
<victorp> jdstrand, thanks for your feedback, just looking into it now, quick q - is there are wiki with the details on read_path?
<jdstrand> victorp: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ApplicationConfinement/Manifest
<jdstrand> victorp: note, anything using read_path is "Red-flagged for manual review (use should actively be discouraged with updates made to policy groups and templates)"
<victorp> jdstrand, sure, but as you said is more specific that fully unconfined
<dpm_> cool, thanks cwayne
<jdstrand> yes. I'm just trying to communicate that read_path's use is discouraged
<victorp> jdstrand, sure, not really any other option to readlogs though
<jdstrand> well, we could make a policy group for it
<mdeslaur> it would be better to add a policy group to read logs
<mdeslaur> and make it reserved
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: I'm jotting down stuff to discuss that and the other app that uses read_path
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: cool
<jdstrand> I think there are discussion points on them. we could do reserved, or we could do common with 'audit deny network'
<victorp> the paths that I will be interested are /var/log/ and  /home/phablet/.cache/upstart/
<jdstrand> anyway, don't need to discuss now
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: interesting, yeah
<victorp> jdstrand, what do you suggest I do? change the app to use read_path and send again or wait?
<jdstrand> victorp: that's fine for now so long as you don't include the networking policy group
<victorp> jdstrand, yes, that was a copy and paste errors
<jdstrand> victorp: resend the app
<victorp> I will remove that
<jdstrand> you don't have to wait on this as we won't resolve it for a bit
 * Shiggitay pokes rsalveti  :P
<seb128> hum
<seb128> should I be able to upgrade from saucy to trusty by using "system-image-cli -v -c trusty"?
<victorp> jdstrand, ack
<seb128> that displayed some "Requesting group download" then
<seb128> "[systemimage] Jan 09 15:34:05 2014 (2357) Running group download reactor"
<seb128> but nothing seems to happen anymore
<ogra_> seb128, the download-manager doesnt give *any* output
<ogra_> just be patient
<seb128> ok
<ogra_> s-i-c calls it and then you have to wait ...
<seb128> FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/android/cache/recovery/ubuntu-2a9f86f374f287f87069095a16245b36afa2a204691dc1a3c5bff1b5e8ccbc93.tar.xz'
<seb128> shrug
<ogra_> ouch
 * seb128 tries again
<seb128> those updates are so unreliable :/
 * ogra_ stopped using the cmdline for that a while ago 
<seb128> ogra_, can I upgrade from saucy to trusty without the command line?
<seb128> from the device
<seb128> e.g without using the phablet tools
<ogra_> well, the above didnt indicate that you upgrade from saucy to trusty
<ogra_> and no, you cant
<seb128> above, being?
<ogra_> but your above command would be missing -b 0
<ogra_> since you need to reset the version to 0 to force a full image download
<seb128> is that needed now that trusty's version is > saucy
<seb128> k
<ogra_> no, was always needed
<ogra_> if you are on trusty already you dont need it, but when switching channels you do
<seb128> ogra_, ok, thanks (that device is still on saucy, trying to upgrade)
<kenvandine> seb128, at one point i had and error like that, which was caused from being out of space
<seb128> kenvandine, hum, /dev/disk/by-partlabel/cache    552M  372M  181M  68% /android/cache
<kenvandine> how big is the image it is downloading?
<seb128> how do I know?
<kenvandine> i had a couple old images laying around there
<kenvandine> dunno :)
<kenvandine> so it wasn't writing the file to disk
<kenvandine> i removed the old files then it worked
<kenvandine> it was quite a while ago though
<seb128> I'm not even sure where to look
<kenvandine> if that full image download is more than 181M, that's what's happening
<seb128> # du -ksh /android/cache
<seb128> 36K	/android/cache
<ogra_> iirc system-image-cli will clear the space for you now
<ogra_> (in v2.0)
<ogra_> oh, but thats saucy ...
<kenvandine> but if he's saucy
<ogra_> old crap :P
<seb128> where does it download?
<ogra_> to the cache dir
<seb128> # du -ksh /android/caches/cache
<seb128> 36K	/android/cache
<seb128> no
<kenvandine> seb128, i think it is /android/cache/recovery
<seb128> # du -ksh /android/cache/recovery/
<seb128> 24K	/android/cache/recovery/
<mterry_> ogra_, heyo!  So I've tested the nested branch against latest image on my mako.  Do you have a maguro for testing?
<ogra_> ask barry then
<ogra_> i know it processes it from the cache dir
<ogra_> probably it downloads to tmp first
<ogra_> mterry_, i do, but didnt we wait for ricmm_ and the hybris fix ?
<ogra_> i havent heard anything yet
<seb128> stgraber, barry: do you know what's going on if on a saucy touch image I've "/android/cache" full in df but with no content if I use ls/du?
<mterry_> ogra_, yes...  Though I think hybris was only needed for grouper.  I think maguro will work with just the mir fix
<ogra_> ok, will test later today (got a bunch of meetings now)
<barry> seb128: that's pretty weird!
<kenvandine> barry, seb128's device is still saucy
<kenvandine> he's trying to upgrade to trusty
<kenvandine> so it's the old download manager
<barry> ah
<barry> seb128: `system-image-cli --version` says?
<seb128> system-image-cli 1.9.1
<barry> seb128: okay.  in a meeting now.  will circle back when that's done
<seb128> barry, upgrade fails because /android/cache is full, I'm just trying to figure out what to clean to make space
<seb128> barry, thanks
<seb128> it's some lxc magic I guess
<ogra_> seb128, not related to lxc
<seb128>  /dev/disk/by-partlabel/cache    552M  552M     0 100% /android/cache
<seb128>  /dev/disk/by-partlabel/cache    552M  552M     0 100% /var/lib/lxc/android/rootfs/cache
<seb128> but neither /android/cache or /var/lib/lxc/android/rootfs/cache have content if you ls them
<ogra_> nothing on the android side makes any use of cache
<ogra_> sounds like some of the initrd mount stuff failed ... did you try a reboot ?
<seb128> I'm rebooting
<seb128> but when I started the upgrade that dir had 180M free
<seb128> so I guess things are working and it just didn't have enough space for the update
<seb128> I don't get the magic behind the directories though
<seb128> ok
<seb128>  /dev/disk/by-partlabel/cache    552M  9.8M  542M   2% /android/cache
<seb128> let's try again
<ogra_> aha
<kenvandine> seb128, so a reboot cleared that much?
<seb128> kenvandine, yes
<seb128> I guess it was in a tmpfs or somethign
<kenvandine> seb128, quick update before it fills again :)
<seb128> kenvandine, ;-)
<victorp> jdstrand, that didnt work as I am running ls to find files in doc
<victorp> s /doc/folder/
<ogra_> how do you run ls ?
<ogra_> you shouldnt even be able to access it
<ogra_> do you ship it in your click ?
<victorp> ogra_, unconfined
<jdstrand> victorp: right, cause you were unconfined you could shell out
<ogra_> ah ...
<victorp> jdstrand, would QDir work?
<jdstrand> victorp: since you were doing that, you presumably are using compiled code, so you can use Qt file operations to get your list
<victorp> jdstrand, yeah I will try that
<cwayne> sforshee: hey, so when you said that the configs in /usr/share/powerd/device_configs were from android, do you mean that's where we got them from originally, but now they're included in the powerd package?
<jdstrand> I can't tell you how-- but yeah
<cwayne> i thought you'd meant we get it from the android lxc container or something along those lines
<ogra_> jdstrand, hmm, would it work if i shipped busybox inside my click to get the common shell commands ? (just an academic questions out of curiosity)
<jdstrand> ogra_: you have execute perms on files in your install directory, so, in theory, yes
<sforshee> cwayne: yes. There does need to be some plan for how a vendor would supply the file for their devices though, as we obviously aren't going to throw all of them into powerd.
<cwayne> right
<cwayne> sforshee: that's why i was asking about XDG_DATA_DIRS, as we have some dirs in the custom tarball that are in XDG_DATA_DIRS, so if we have powerd look there, we could theoretically just include that .xml into that vendor's custom tarball
<ogra_> jdstrand, heh, cool
<sforshee> cwayne: I'd suggest chatting with ChickenCutlass & co. about that
<sforshee> I do wonder if the naming convention for the files might need to be improved in that case
<cwayne> sforshee: sure thing, thanks
<ChickenCutlass> cwayne, sure -- are you going to propose an MR
<cwayne> ha
<cwayne> ChickenCutlass: we'd need to get an actual plan first, that was just a quick idea that 'might work'
<ChickenCutlass> cwayne, ok, lets talk about it
<ChickenCutlass> cwayne, I know we need to do some work on settings as well.
<cwayne> ChickenCutlass: right, a lot of the settings are taken care of now in the custom tarball by dconf/gsettings
<sforshee> ChickenCutlass: I do have an open MRs from months ago to address backlight settings ;-)
<ChickenCutlass> sfeole, really
<ChickenCutlass> oops
<ChickenCutlass> sforshee, sorry -- let me look
<cwayne> if we get all the powerd settings into dconf then this might not be a particularly big issue tbh, but im not sure how realistic that is
<sforshee> cwayne: dconf isn't going to work
<sforshee> ChickenCutlass: https://code.launchpad.net/~sforshee/powerd/backlight-settings/+merge/187290
<barry> seb128: meeting over.  ftr, even in 1.9.1, data files are downloaded to the cache directory, so that would be /android/cache/recovery by default.  if that partition is too small, then yes, it'll fail.  you could change that in /etc/system-image/client.ini but the problem is that when you reboot to recovery, it won't find the files it needs to do the update.  so i think you're back to trying to figure out why that partition is out of
<barry> space when there's nothing in it
<cwayne> fair enough
<sforshee> cwayne: it's something about dbus, powerd being a system-level service and not being able to use the session bus or something like that
<sforshee> so for backlight I had made a dbus api with the idea that something in the shell would keep the settings and tell powerd about them
<cwayne> hm, ok.. there's a system bus too isn't there?
<sforshee> yeah but then the settings end up stored somewhere different and you end up with other badness
<seb128> barry, for whatever reason, after a reboot I've free space but the download service doesn't seem to download anything
<sforshee> I don't know much about it, but it sounded like it was a bad idea for powerd to use dconf
<barry> seb128: perhaps it thinks you're on the latest version already?  system-image-cli --info will tell you what it thinks you're on and system-image-cli --dry-run will tell you what it wants to update you to
<seb128> [systemimage] Jan 09 16:51:58 2014 (2908) Running group download reactor
<seb128> [systemimage] Jan 09 16:51:59 2014 (2908) Group download reactor done
<seb128> [systemimage] Jan 09 16:51:59 2014 (2908) Upgrade path is 119
<seb128> so I guess it's trying to update
<cwayne> sforshee: sounds reasonable enough
<barry> yep (was that --dry-run?)
<seb128> barry, no, I've been trying "system-image-cli -c trusty -b 0 -v"
<seb128> barry, or maybe it's downloading but in another place, the cache dir usage doesn't change anymore
<seb128> barry, I'm going to wait for a while and see what happens
<barry> seb128: you *could* try with -vv to get really verbose output, but that at least would give you console output for progress coming from ubuntu-download-manager.  when s-i requests a group download of the data files (after the upgrade path is calculated), it basically just has to wait until u-d-m tells it the downloads are finished.
<seb128> barry, where is u-d-m downloading?
<seb128> e.g where does it store the tmp files?
<barry> seb128: it stores the data files directly in the /android/cache/recovery
<seb128> I don't have a such directory
<barry> technically, the `cache_partition` setting in /etc/system-image/client.ini
<barry> seb128: that's supposed to be a mounted recovery partition so that when recovery runs on reboot, it sees all the files it needs, including ubuntu_command which gets written as the very last thing
<barry> seb128: so that seems like the root problem.  the ubuntu side has to put the files in a directory that's mapped to a recovery side partition
<seb128> barry, something is weird with my device, I think it's going to be easier to whipe out and reinstall
<barry> seb128: probably ;)
<seb128> barry, thanks for the help in any case ;-)
<barry> seb128: sure thing!  i've seen this once before, though i don't remember where.  it seems like there are some cases where the recovery partition doesn't get mapped into the ubuntu side.  perhaps stgraber has seen that or has thoughts on how that can occur
<rtg> ogra_, rsalveti: does phablet-flash support the Nexus 7 (2013) model yet ?
<rsalveti> rtg: nops, still working to get an image for it
<rtg> rsalveti, ok. I've got a flo kernel about ready.
<rsalveti> rtg: great, is that available somewhere?
<rsalveti> will be useful for me soon
<rtg> rsalveti, not yet, but it could be. I'd kind of like to test it first...
<rsalveti> rtg: right, no worries, if you have the tree somewhere at least it would already be useful
<rsalveti> rtg: would be nice if you could also rebase our kernel changes on top of the latest nexus 4 (mako) tree (4.4.2)
<rtg> rsalveti, its in the trusty repo under the 'flo' branch.
<rsalveti> rtg: great, thanks
<rtg> rsalveti, I'll get mako on my todo list.
<rsalveti> but don't push the mako changes to the archive until we got a working image for it
<rsalveti> rtg: great, thanks
<rtg> rsalveti, I'll upload everything to the c-k-t PPA and you can just pocket copy from there
<rsalveti> rtg: great, that would be awesome
<rtg> rsalveti, uploaded linux-flo - 3.4.0-0.2 to https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-team. No guarantees on functionality. I started with flo_defconfig, then added Ubuntu packaging.
<rsalveti> rtg: sure, no worries, I should be able to give it a try soon
<rsalveti> and thanks
<rtg> rsalveti, so where would I find the mako updates ? the cyanogenmod repo on phablet.ubuntu.com hasn't been updated in 6 months.
<rsalveti> rtg: from the same aosp tree you used for flo
<rtg> rsalveti, by golly, there _is_ a mko in there.
<rtg> mako*
<rsalveti> yeah, should be a different branch
<rtg> kitkat-mr1 ?
<rsalveti> rtg: should be
<rtg> rsalveti, ack
<kenvandine> the haptic feedback when switching tabs in the indicators is terribly annoying...
<thomi> Saviq: did you get anywhere with calling close() on the touch device before creating a new one?
<mhall119> beuno: do you know what the click scope uses to order More Suggestions?
<dobey> mhall119: the scope doesn't sort them, iirc. it's just the order we get from the server
<mhall119> dobey: ok, thanks
<mhall119> dobey: what project should I file a bug on that against?
<dobey> mhall119: click-package-index is the project for the server side
<mhall119> not sure if a bug for sorting should go against the server or the scope
<dobey> depends on the bug
<barry> xnox: do you have some time to chat about emulator+autopilot?
<xnox> barry: yeap =)
<dobey> part of the problem i think, is that there's no way to do filtering yet in the dash
<mhall119> the bug will be "sort suggestions by some 'hotness' criteria"
<xnox> barry: i have latest run results in, and it's 1h40m from juju bootstrap, to copying all the logs back to the host =)))))
<dobey> mhall119: i think the default search is by either popularity or "newnewss"
<dobey> err, newness
<mhall119> dobey: doesn't look like newness, both the first and last item are fairly recent
<mhall119> how would popularity be decided? # of downloads?
<mhall119> since R&R isn't active yet
<dobey> mhall119: no idea. beuno or JamesTait would have to answer how sorting is decided on the server.
<mhall119> OMG! my phone vibrates!
<cyphermox> yeah! :)
<mhall119> would be nice to have it vibrate on long-press though, not normal press, in the dash
<mhall119> wow, rotation seems much faster in this new build
<davmor2> mhall119: date last uploaded?
<mhall119> davmor2: maybe
<davmor2> mhall119: ie your app is appended to the end of the queue on update
<mhall119> davmor2: not ideal, still
<davmor2> mhall119: R&R should in theory turn it round very quickly
<kaimast> what does vibrate?
<nik90> kaimast: when you press buttons and tabs it vibrates
<nik90> haptic feedback
<nik90> although when I press the toolbar button it doesnt vibrate
<kaimast> guess it is just not supported on maguro
<nik90> kaimast: could be
<kaimast> just updated. nothing vibrates for me
<nik90> image r119?
<kaimast> do the nexus 4 and 5 still have the notification led? would love to use that on ubuntu touch too
<kaimast> it could use the color from the background gradient
<kaimast> nik90: yeah i think i updated to r119
<nik90> kaimast: that could be misleading..the notification led color usually indicates a activity type like red->charging, blinking red->battery low etc..
<nik90> I wouldnt want to change it to background gradient
<kaimast> on android it does that
<kaimast> green for whatsapp message, white for email, blue for skype message
<kaimast> etc
<kaimast> and can be also used to indicate charging (but that only works for me on cyanogenmod)
<kaimast> its really awesome you look at your phone and directly know what happened
<kaimast> (i have a galaxy nexus. maybe the behaviour changed)
<nik90> whatsapp does it, but it isn't really helpful since if you have multiple apps which change the behavior, the user wouldn't remember which light colors meant what
<nik90> it is better to assign categories to them like white->messages, green->charge complete, red->charging and so on
<nik90> I wouldn't give the freedom to apps to change them
<nik90> but again this is just my personal opinion
<kaimast> that would be cool too. but it is not supported at all currently, or is it?
<mhall119> I'd say blue for messages, since the message indicator turns blue
<mterry_> tedg, what is the relationship between indicator-messages and the notification server?  Does i-m listen to notifications too or do apps tell i-m directly as well as emitting a notification?
<tedg> mterry_, Apps tell both of us.
<tedg> mterry_, Well, they give each different information.
<tedg> xnox, I love "in a mere 1h40m" -- fast is relative :-)
<mterry_> tedg, so with a split greeter, how do we envision i-m sharing its contents?
<tedg> mterry_, i-m in the session -> account service schema -> i-m in greeter
<mterry_> tedg, that works mostly.  But feeding back content seems awkward.  Like answering an IM
<mterry_> tedg, I guess we could use AS for that too...
<tedg> mterry_, No, we're not feeding back.  There's no way to reply unless you unlock.
<mterry_> tedg, ah OK
<mterry_> tedg, is that work scoped under your team or am I doing that?
<tedg> mterry_, Last I checked we're not putting the message as well, just the sender.
<tedg> mterry_, Our team, I think it's assigned to charles
<mterry_> tedg, OK.  Do you have a design mockup?
<mterry_> tedg, OK, awesome
 * mterry_ hugs charles 
<mterry_> So that leaves notification sharing to me
<tedg> mterry_, No :-(  We have conversations, pushing for more design.
<tedg> Is notification sharing a requirement?  It seems like 90% of the time on the lock screen the screen is off anyway.
<tedg> For messages having the envelope turn blue is probably all you need/want.
<mterry_> tedg, current thinking is that we'll use generic notification handling for phone calls
<mterry_> So we do it once for phone calls and then we can re-use for other notifications
<tedg> If we don't run the telephony app in the greeter, then you'd have to enter your PIN to answer a call, no?
<mterry_> tedg, yes
<mterry_> That made sense to me at the time, but I suppose other phones don't do that...
<tedg> So it seems we're going to have to have the app there, listening to ofono, and displaying it's own notifications.  You don't want from the user session.
<tedg> (at least for phone calls)
<tedg> No, it's hard to enter your PIN/password quick enough before VM picks up.
<sergiusens> tedg, that should happen on boot (PIN)
<sergiusens> imo
<mterry_> tedg, right...  I have code for that already actually.
<tedg> sergiusens, SIM PIN, yes, login could be PIN locked as well.
<mterry_> sergiusens, this is user PIN not phone SIM PIN
<sergiusens> mterry_, ah; then I take my comment back
<sergiusens> although auth to answer is a stretch, do other OSes do that?
<tedg> NO TAKE BACKS!  ;-)
<sergiusens> tedg, well my commen has a fundamental flaw; without entering the sim pin I don't think you can receive calls anyways :-P
<sergiusens> comment
<tedg> Heh
<kaimast> is there any progress on the e-mail app?
<dfgnndgk> Hello. Is there ethernet over usb dongle supported out of the box by Touch on Nexus 10? What is the current kernel?
<xnox> tedg: well that's 9 instances ;-)
<xnox> tedg: and without unity8, current testing on devices takes ~6h =)
<xnox> tedg: so i'm good on the books ;-)
<xnox> tedg: i want to be achieve << 30m however.
<xnox> s/be//
<tedg> xnox, As Einstein would say, it's all relative ;-)
<xnox> =))))))))
<xnox> at 700Mhz emulated CPU it's awesome.
<jdstrand> oh, haptic feedback :)
<kenvandine> jdstrand, it's actually really bothering me!
 * jdstrand launches another app to see it in action :)
<jdstrand> iirc, that is configurable on android
<kenvandine> i was excited the first time i felt it... but now it seems like everything i do triggers it
<jdstrand> will it be for us too?
<kenvandine> i hope so... and also limit where we use it
<jdstrand> yeah
<kenvandine> most annoying for me is when changing tabs
<kenvandine> flicking through the indicators in particular
<jdstrand> oh, heh, I just noticed that
<kenvandine> i've been cursing at my phone all day :)
<jdstrand> yeah-- every flick and checkbox
<jdstrand> well, it works :)
<kenvandine> indeed, which is a nice step!
<kenvandine> not to trim down usage to make it more meaningful
 * jdstrand nods
<kenvandine> s/not/now/
<jdstrand> app launch seems reasonable so you know that something is happening
<jdstrand> pulling a recent app from the bg, not so sure
<kenvandine> yeah
<jdstrand> anyhoo-- I'm sure there will be lots of feedback on the feedback
<kenvandine> and things with immediate feedback, like a checkbox shouldn't
<kenvandine> haha
<kenvandine> yeah
 * jdstrand wanted to somehow jok about 'feedback is welcome' but couldn't pull it off
<kenvandine> i'll look forward to seeing the feedback on feedback
<kenvandine> :-p
<jdstrand> :)
<mhall119> kenvandine: I'm filing bugs against unity8 with feedback on feedback
<mhall119> bug #1267592
<ubot5> bug 1267592 in Unity 8 "Vibrate should happen on long-press, not normal activation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1267592
<kenvandine> mhall119, feedback is welcome!
<jdstrand> there you go!
<mhall119> you say that now ;)
<jdstrand> that was what was missing-- the setup
<kenvandine> jdstrand, i found a way to use your whit :)
<jdstrand> mhall119 makes a good straight man
<kenvandine> i can't even spell that ;)
<mhall119> kenvandine: can we have a shorter "tick" style feedback for the OSK?
<mhall119> jdstrand: that's what she said?
<kenvandine> mhall119, don't ask me... i'm not actually in the know :)
<jdstrand> ohh...
<jdstrand> I won't be touching that
<kenvandine> :)
<jdstrand> ;)
<mhall119> that's what....nvm
 * jdstrand hates haptic feedback on the keyboard. I hope that is easily configurable
<mhall119> kenvandine: FWIW, I also filed bugs to add vibration to incoming calls and messages
<dobey> haptic feedback? you have a device that shocks your fingers with the keyboard?
<jdstrand> dobey: its working on my mako with 119
<kenvandine> mhall119, i like that
<popey> please can I shock mhall119 when I touch my keyboard
<jdstrand> mhall119: oh yes, good idea
<popey> where do I file a bug for that?
<dobey> i mean, my thinkpad did that, but i don't think it was haptic feedback
<jdstrand> oh, haha
<mhall119> no, bad popey
<dobey> the google phones just vibrate right? the same vibration motor as when you get a call or sms or whatever?
<mhall119> dobey: I don't know if it's vibration or a "click" sound over the speaker
<dobey> oh
 * mhall119 doesn't have an Android device handy to test
<dobey> webos does a very subtle vibration when it spell-corrects a word
<kenvandine> iirc, on android it is a shorter vibration
<kenvandine> less jarring
<dobey> right
<kenvandine> or maybe that is device specific, and this is just what the nexus 4 does
<kenvandine> i've never run android on it
 * dobey was just mocking the use of 'haptic' though
<kenvandine> dobey, i knew you were trolling
<mhall119> it was the correct use, wasn't it?
<kenvandine> you're predictable :)
<dobey> haptic on touch screens usually means that the keyboard keys would feel like a keybaord when you touch them.
<rickspencer3> dobey, I think that's a rather constrained usage of the term "haptic"
<rickspencer3> from a human factors perspective, the term is used much more broadly
<mhall119> dobey: wikipedia says you're wrong, and everbody knows wikipedia never lies
 * mhall119 expects that after the next edit, wikipedia will say he's right
 * kenvandine watches dobey go edit wikipedia
<mhall119> lol
<mhall119> oh, idea, before entering *any* online arguement, pre-emptively edit every relevant wikipedia article to coincide with your claims
<kenvandine> :)
<mhall119> Fact: Upstart is both better tasting *and* less filling than SystemD, wikipedia confirms it
<kenvandine> rofl
<mhall119> ok, back to bug filing
<dobey> editing wikipedia is for nerds
<kaimast> btw it is written "systemd" ;)
<kaimast> if it is incorrectly spelled your argument is automatically invalid
<mhall119> upstart is far more flexible in that regard :)
<dobey> it certainly is an apt name
<kaimast> talking about upstart, I am still waiting for kenvandines approval for the friends upstart script
<kenvandine> kaimast, i hadn't seen that
<kenvandine> i'll look for it
<kaimast> no problem. would be nice if we could merge all the open requests. I already have another branch that implements image previews and also add settings (that are saved/synced via ubuntu one)
<mhall119> careful kaimast, he might make you the new maintainer :)
<mhall119> Saviq: does the unity8 project still contain the welcome screen, or has that been broken out?
<kenvandine> kaimast, responded
<kenvandine> kaimast, i love the idea, but we should make it conditional to keep load low when the phone session starts
<kaimast> okay thanks for the feedback
<kenvandine> thanks for the branch!
<kenvandine> i know i would want to enable it :)
<mhall119> who did the haptics work?
<mhall119> bfiller: ^^
<pmcgowan> mhall119, I think just long press is too restrictive, added design to the bug
<mhall119> thanks pmcgowan
<mhall119> feedback on my feedback feedback, ^^ jdstrand that's how it's done
<jdstrand> heh
<mhall119> bzoltan: you don't happen to still be around, do you?
<RobbyF> with this convergence plan moving forward will the desktop be using click packages as well?
<mhall119> RobbyF: yes
<RobbyF> that will be the 'norm'?
<mhall119> yes
<mhall119> click packages are beneficial, whether convergence is at play or not
<RobbyF> cool. will they be theme capable?
<mhall119> RobbyF: that's not click dependent, but yes SDK apps will be themeable (how much of that works right now I'm not sure)
<mhall119> or, are you asking if themes can be installed from click packages?
<RobbyF> I suppose the first but the later sounds interesting as well.
<RobbyF> are all click packages sandboxed/jailed then?
<mhall119> I believe the plan is to eventually support themes/wallpapers/icons/sounds/etc to be click packages, but that's going to require some additional work since they don't live in confinement
<mhall119> RobbyF: yes
<mhall119> well, they don't *have* to be, there's an "unconfined" security profile, but 3rd party apps in the store won't be able to use it
<mhall119> so there are "click package requirements" and "Ubuntu store requirements"
<mhall119> confinement being a store requirement
<RobbyF> ubuntu store to replace ubuntu software centre?
<mhall119> same thing really, but "store" is shorter to type :)
<RobbyF> kk lol
<RobbyF> I'm looked around a bit but i still don't see an email client. perhaps I'v over looked it?
<mhall119> RobbyF: only the GMail webapp for now
<RobbyF> settings > accounts> google - it appears it does nothing, (contacts, gmails, google plus, google maps) in regards to saving login information ect. Is this the correct behaviour right now?
#ubuntu-touch 2014-01-10
<mhall119> RobbyF: correct, there's nothing that uses the Google account yet
<mhall119> nik90: pink
<mhall119> ping even
<nik90> mhall119: pong
<mhall119> nik90: http://91.189.92.89/api/qml/sdk-2.0/QtFeedback.HapticsEffect/
<mhall119> I was your MP for an audible alarm on Timer, and thought "that would be twice as good with vibration too"
<mhall119> and since the latest device images support that now
<nik90> mhall119: actually I added it and then removed it :P
<nik90> mhall119: But I can add it back again easily :)
<mhall119> did you not like it?
<nik90> well it wasnt about not liking it..I did not want to over do it.
<mhall119> ah, understandable
<nik90> right now you have haptic feedback while pressing tabs, buttons etc.
<mhall119> yeah, I filed a bug on that already
<nik90> I had a question related to haptics again
<mhall119> what question?
<nik90> in all the tabs in clock app, the middle circle in the clock face is a button. Would you expect to have haptic feedback there?
<nik90> as a user
<nik90> Because a list item is also clickable, but it doesn't have that haptic feedback.
<mhall119> not me, personally
<nik90> so wasn't sure if I should add it
<mhall119> though tabs shouldn't either, IMO
<nik90> +1
<nik90> tabs shouldnt
<nik90> btw did you run that branch? Did you like the feedback shown especially the sound?
<mhall119> I haven't tried it yet, no, just saw the MP come across my inbox
<mhall119> clock is on my list of things to try on desktop between now and Wednesday next week
<nik90> oh
<nik90> mhall119: hey btw I was thinking of adding Ctrl+Tab to switch tabs
<nik90> does that seem reasonable?
<mhall119> I think so, yeah
<nik90> mhall119: are you tracking desktop related bugs with any special tags?
<nik90> in other core apps projects?
<mhall119> nik90: not yet, no
<mhall119> popey might be
<mhall119> nik90: what timezone are you?
<nik90> mhall119: UTC+1.. I have a free day tomorrow, hence the night hacking :)
<mhall119> nearly morning hacking now
<nik90> mhall119: I am done in another 15 mins. Just reporting bugs and then off :)
<mhall119> just don't burn yourself out with too many late nights :)
<nik90> +
<Shiggitay> hello peeps
<alfre_csem> alguien habla espaÃ±ol?
<dholbach> good morning
<Alin> hello. i`m gonna be short.
<Guest79477> i would like to know if ubuntu touch could run on samsung tab 3?
<popey> !devices | Guest79477 is it on that list ?
<ubot5> Guest79477 is it on that list ?: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<Guest79477> mhr3, thanks! but i have to wait for tab 3...
<Guest79477> for now supporting just tab 2
<mhr3> Guest79477, think you didn't want to ping me
<Guest79477> yeah. sorry :)
<Guest79477> it was for ubot5
<tvoss> pitti good morning :) I addresses your remark on https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/qtubuntu-sensors/add-position-plugin-in-preparation-for-dropping-qtlocation-distro-patch/+merge/200703
<pitti> hey tvoss
<pitti> tvoss: thanks, I just ack'ed that a minute ago
<tvoss> pitti thanks :)
<tvoss> Mirv, didrocks could you take a look at the mp, too? https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/qtubuntu-sensors/add-position-plugin-in-preparation-for-dropping-qtlocation-distro-patch/+merge/200703
<didrocks> tvoss: on the packaging side, do you really need Replaces: ? like, you are going to install a file that was in libqt5location5-plugins?
<tvoss> didrocks, yup :) see pitti's review comment
<pitti> tvoss, didrocks: NB that landing this should either be done in lockstep with, or after actually uploading qtlocation-opensource-src with the dropped plugin
<pitti> otherwise, the breaks/replaces: version potentially gets wrong if someone does another upload of qtlocation-opensource-src
<Mirv> tvoss: sure. and I can upload the qtlocation with dropped plugin.
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, for sure, not sure about the Replaces: need, this is just to help apt, but semantically, it's not needed, right?
<pitti> didrocks: semantically the Breaks: isn't needed, but it's the standard debian way for moving files (yes, helps apt)
<pitti> didrocks: the Replaces: is certainly necessary, as it does replace a file from qtlocation
<didrocks> pitti: so, we really move files? I thought the filename was different
<didrocks> ok, if the filenames are the same, making sense
<pitti> didrocks: AFAIK it was the exact same file name
<tvoss> Mirv, would like to test the update procedure then. Could you provide me with an updated armhf qtlocation package?
<Mirv> tvoss: ok, sure
<om26er> what do I do if /dev/loop0 is 100% full ? can increase its size ?
<pitti> om26er: what did you mount on it?
<om26er> pitti, i think on Ubuntu touch its where ubuntu is installed
<pitti> om26er: if it's a vfat or ext4 image etc., just make it bigger
<om26er>  /
<om26er> pitti, its ext2
<pitti> ah, I guess on ubuntu touch that's difficult; why would you want to do this?
<om26er> pitti, I am installing stuff on it to build a big source on the phone and see all the space is gone
<pitti> /dev/loop0                      2.0G  1.4G  472M  75% /
<om26er> /dev/loop0                     ext2      2.0G  1.8G   60M  97% /
<pitti> om26er: yeah, can't do that I'm afraid
<om26er> :/
<pitti> om26er: you need to build big packages with cross-building, or try to avoid unnecessary build deps
<pitti> om26er: the actual sources shoudl be in /home (which has much more space)
<om26er> pitti, yes the build-deps are taking more space, I'll reflash the device and install selective
<pitti> om26er: you can also try some dirty tricks like moving /var, or /usr/lib/ or something big to /home and symlink it
<NineThirty> Show ads in your website or blog and make some money into your paypal   http://ega.123bit.com/
<olli> Saviq, thanks for being on top of Paul's mail
<olli> plars' mail
<Saviq> olli, sure, shame we're not getting much data out of it (still need to look through the results for 121)
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> my phone died over night I'm not sure why it normally has around 50-25% power left in the morning, this was 2%
<ogra_> it probably vibrated all the night waiting in excitement for you
<ogra_> :)
<davmor2> ogra_: I'm wondering if it might of been the new powerd not shutting something down
<ogra_> well, my mako still has 30% left over night
 * ogra_ chacks the maguro 
<davmor2> ogra_: yes and that is what I was expecting too
<ogra_> *checks
<ogra_> 53% here
<ogra_> but i didnt use it much apart from debugging stuff via adb yesterday
<davmor2> ogra_: yeah somewhere between 25-50% so 2% not so good right
<ogra_> nope
<ogra_> watch it
<davmor2> ogra_: also is it me or is the phone not as loud as when android is on the device, ringtone wise I can't hear it properly if it is in another room,  I might try some experiments over the weekend
<ogra_> hmm, might be
<ogra_> i never ran android on the maguro ... and on the mako it is a long time ago
<Mirv> tvoss: qtlocation upgradable on device by apt-add-repository ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-proper
<tvoss> Mirv, thanks, will give it a spin after next meeting
<davmor2> ogra_: hmm it just dawned on me I wonder if Pulse Audio is doing the standard only turning the volume up to 80% and reserving the last 20% so you have to open up the full pulse audio app to get the last bit
<ogra_> davmor2, might be, try to check with diwic ... he made the profiles
<davmor2> ogra_: thanks will do
<ogra_> xnox, systempart= is not what you think it is
<Shiggitay> rsalveti, how's it coming?
<Shiggitay> hi ogra_
<ogra_> (just looking at your MP)
<ogra_> xnox, the systempart implementation belongs to non loop images (for ports) and needs to live in the fstab creation script of that specific image variant
<ogra_> xnox, i think your change breaks flipped ports that way
<xnox> ogra_: i don't believe it does. do you want me to use another variable name, instead? or for example to also check that /tmpmnt/ubuntu is _not_ present?
<ogra_> heh, i implemented it that way in the fstab creation script :)
<xnox> ogra_: cause _with_ /tmpmnt/ubuntu present, it would indicate a non-flipped type.
<ogra_> i would prefer a new variable name
<ogra_> especially since it is  no partition ... but an image
<davmor2> ogra_: hal9000?
<ogra_> oh, wait, i misread
<xnox> ogra_: what do you mean "no parition" ? it is a _real_ normal partition.
 * ogra_ missed "if ([ -e /tmpmnt/system.img ] || [ -n "$system_path" ]); then"
<ogra_> hmm, in fact it could even work now that i think of it
<xnox> ogra_: I can add && [ ! -d /tmpmnt/ubuntu ] there
<ogra_> except that you dont have a list with partition names for it androids system ... (there are like 30 or so for different devices )
<xnox> ogra_: and system_path is defined to a parition with label UBUNTU, unless manually overriden.
<ogra_> s/it//
<ogra_> yeah, that would break for ports
<ogra_> it should have a list of all possible labels
<xnox> no.
<ogra_> for the ports flipped implementation it has to
<ogra_> they use the existing android system partition
<xnox> i specifically need a new label on the partition for, one may not use
<xnox> for non-loop.
<xnox> so $system_path in my patch may _not_  be android system partition =)
<ogra_> right
<xnox> so i really should use new variable name.
<ogra_> so pick a new name ...
<ogra_> ubuntu_systempart
<ogra_> or so
<ogra_> beyond that the MP looks good :)
<ogra_> (i'm also not sure how many ports will actually still work at all once we drop SF support, which should happen soon)
<ogra_> (so the flipped ports images might be moot for the moment)
<davmor2> ogra_: flippinel?
<ogra_> flipponastic !
<davmor2> ogra_: better still, flip-flops
<tvoss> Mirv, you around? so update applies cleanly locally. Can you give it a spin, too?
<Mirv> tvoss: in hangout then EOD, but tested with qtubuntu-sensors from daily-build and qtlocation from qt5-proper (on desktop): since the Breaks is for << ubuntu4 and not << ubuntu4~, it doesn't work with the test qtlocation package, but recompiling qtubuntu-sensors with "ubuntu4~" as the Breaks/Replaces solves the situation
<Mirv> tvoss: I'll now push a build of qtlocation without the test suffix in version number, but have to then revisit testing on Monday (also, I haven't tested on device)
<tvoss> Mirv, ack ... do you want me to change the Breaks/Replaces?
<tvoss> Mirv, or do you take care of the version number thingy in qtlocation?
<Mirv> tvoss: no it should be fine as is for archive, it just prevents "have increasable test build version number that's not equal or higher to the one that will be in archive", but that's not relevant for this small case
<tvoss> Mirv, ack and thx
<Mirv> building now at https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-proper/+sourcepub/3811482/+listing-archive-extra - after that using qt5-proper + ppa:ubuntu-unity/daily-build and updating just qtubuntu-sensors should pull the qtlocation update in too.
<Mirv> thanks
<ogra_> popey, oh man ... now i feel as old as i am
<tvoss> Mirv, great, thanks
<XYZ_> hi everyone
<XYZ_> is it possible to install ubuntu touch on a tilapia nexus 7?
<XYZ_> tilapia = 3G version
<XYZ_> i don't use the 3G at all though
<ogra_> there are hacks i think ... google for it
<ogra_> (it does not work out of the box)
<davmor2> ogra_: what did popey say to make you feel so young?
<ogra_> davmor2, popey pointed to old people music on G+
 * ogra_ shakes his cane 
<popey> lol old people music
 * popey looks for his lute
<davmor2> ogra_: pass your cane there are kids on my lawn
<davmor2> popey: is this the 80's classics you are listening to or did you go further back still
<popey> davmor2: i am wandering around spotify like a lost dog
<xnox> http://youtu.be/kfVsfOSbJY0    <=== Best song ever!
<davmor2> popey, ogra_:  You need a little Bob Marley and whalers in your day and a little Jimi Hendrix, maybe some pink floyd (try the 1979 xmas number one).
<popey> hah
<popey> Roger Roger.
 * popey puts Hey Joe on.
<davmor2> xnox: I may have to shoot you with a potato gun until the world runs out of potatoes
<xnox> davmor2: rickrolling level 7 ;-)
<davmor2> popey: hey jude would be good too :)
<davmor2> xnox: Nothing beats this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h37KQu64RY4
<davmor2> popey: tainted love both the softcell and marlyn manson versions, Eurithmics and MM versions of Sweetdreams, kate bush and placebos versions of running up that hill (how's that for some then and now choices)
<sergiusens> cjwatson, xnox hey, I just did 'sudo click chroot -a armhf -s trusty create' and it created an amd64 chroot; is there an existing issue or am I doing something wrong? (I'm on trusty amd64)
<xnox> davmor2: eye bleach eye bleach
<davmor2> xnox: you and your meagre level 7 pfffff, you could try the chicken song and startreking instead :)
<cjwatson> sergiusens: that's what it's supposed to do
<cjwatson> sergiusens: it creates an amd64 chroot including support for cross-building to armhf
<sergiusens> cjwatson, ack; is there any wiki around?
<cjwatson> sergiusens: not sure
<sergiusens> cjwatson, so when I do "click chroot -aarmhf install cmake libgles2-mesa-dev python qt5-default qtbase5-dev qtdeclarative5-dev qt5-qmake" am  I supposed to add :armhf ?
<sergiusens> I guess I can figure it out
<cjwatson> sergiusens: for anything that's multi-arch: same, yes, not otherwise.  but it already installs several of those - qt5-default:armhf qtbase5-dev:armhf qtdeclarative5-dev:armhf qt5-qmake:armhf at least will already be installed
<sergiusens> cjwatson, do I need -DCMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE or is that done for me? Last question and just going into the code for more answers :-)
<cjwatson> sergiusens: for the moment you need that
<xnox> sergiusens: cjwatson: well, depends. for many cases you shouldn't need CMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE anymore.
<xnox> but that's assuming you are executing cmake from inside the chroot.
<xnox> (trusty one that is)
<davmor2> seb128, tedg: on the settings app on backgrounds, what happened to default image button?  Also I think the different and same background toggle is broken
<seb128> davmor2, it was never supposed to be there, it was a workaround because we were not listing images before, just having the gallery picker
<tedg> davmor2, Guessing you mean kenvandine?  We're close, but he's still better looking :-)
<seb128> in the current version the default is in the image grid
<seb128> so you can just pick it there
<seb128> I don't know about the toggle not working
<davmor2> seb128: if I click on welcome screen or home screen, it just displays the image that is on it now not the default image
<kenvandine> tedg, damn right!
<seb128> davmor2, that's what it's supposed to do no?
<sergiusens> xnox, I assume click chroot run, makes it run in the chroot; and in tht case, I'm not having much luck
<davmor2> seb128: but there is no listing of the original image so I can't change back to the default
<kenvandine> davmor2, maybe you don't have the wallpapers installed?
<davmor2> kenvandine: I have what is in image 121 only?
<kenvandine> the wallpapers aren't installed by default, we kind of need form factor specific wallpaper packages
<kenvandine> yeah, it's basically empty in a default image, since there are no wallpapers packages installed
<kenvandine> we don't want to pull in ubuntu-wallpapers because those aren't optimized for the form factors
<Laney> we should have a phone/tablet wallpaper contest too
<Laney> people love submitting pictures ;-)
<davmor2> kenvandine: okay so not a bug as such just an incomplete tool?
<kenvandine> seb128, do you know if anyone is working on wallpaper assets?
<seb128> kenvandine, not that I know, but I didn't ask either...
 * tedg takes a photo of his coffee
<kenvandine> davmor2, not incomplete tool... just missing wallpapers ;)
<tedg> kenvandine, I'll get more at lunch!
<kenvandine> :)
<davmor2> kenvandine: indeed so it feels incomplete to an end user :P
<kenvandine> yeah
<cjwatson> xnox,sergiusens: ok, I guess all I meant was that "click chroot run" doesn't pass it.  If cmake doesn't need it any more, so much the better
<kenvandine> seb128, so it does mean that the "default" wallpaper isn't in the grid
<davmor2> tedg: is your coffee like kenvandine but his is better looking?
<kenvandine> since the default in the image isn't in the standard location
<seb128> kenvandine, good point, I didn't think about that, we should have the image in the standard location
<tedg> davmor2, I'm actually really happy with my coffee right now, so I think I have kenvandine beat there.
<kenvandine> you probably do...
<tedg> davmor2, What kenvandine doesn't know is looks will only get you so far.  Good coffee brings you the world!
<tedg> :-)
 * kenvandine needs more coffee!
<tedg> I actually (literally this week) learned I could order the beans from a local roaster online which solves some of my supply problems.
<tedg> http://www.oakcliffcoffee.com/
<ogra_> do they deliver with drones ?
<kenvandine> need more drones
<ogra_> one per bean !
<tedg> Hah, that would be awesome.
<tedg> They do deliver closer to downtown.  But not this far out.
 * davmor2 is tired of people droning on about drones, bring on the I, Robots
<pitti> tvoss: ah, so it seems https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/qtubuntu-sensors/cmake-setup-take-2/+merge/200826 is really close now :)
<tvoss> pitti, yup
<mterry> bfiller, so did ya'll think of any technical reasons that two telephony stacks would be bad?
<bfiller> mterry: we think it will be ok, just needs some testing
<bfiller> probably some tweaks and such
<mterry> bfiller, OK.  You saw my latest email, where I think we may have to do two stacks anyway?  Does that sound reasonable?
<bfiller> mterry: yeah, sorry haven't responded yet. think that should be ok
<bfiller> makes sense, we forgot about that use case
<mterry> yeah me too
<mterry> bfiller, I'll comment in my branch then, but I think it should be good to try to land if we're doing the two-stack thing
<sergiusens> jdstrand, hey, wrt to sensors/easyprof: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6727092/
<jdstrand> sergiusens: hrmm, why is it shelling out?
<jdstrand> sergiusens: can you file a bug on /etc/xdg/QtProject/Sensors.conf
<jdstrand> bfiller: do you know why the calendar is shelling out? see sergiusens paste: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6727092/
<sergiusens> jdstrand, it's address-book-app and I just caught it
<sergiusens> renato_, might know
<jdstrand> bfiller: sorry, address book app
<sergiusens> jdstrand, took we a while to figure out what you meant my shelling out :-)
<renato_> i am not using sensors on contact app
<renato_> should be something related with the SDK
<sergiusens> renato_, nah, disregard sensors, the call to /bin/dash is the question
<sergiusens> renato_, Jan 10 10:55:34 ubuntu-phablet kernel: [  437.380466] type=1400 audit(1389362134.865:129): apparmor="DENIED" operation="exec" parent=1527 profile="com.ubuntu.address-book_address-book_1.0.1.121" name="/bin/dash" pid=3106 comm="exec-line-exec" requested_mask="x" denied_mask="x" fsuid=32011 ouid=0
<renato_> I do not know :D, what can cause it?
<bfiller> that is weird
<jdstrand> renato_: its a new denial. what's changed recently?
<sergiusens> jdstrand, it's being clickified now
<renato_> content hub ?
<cwayne> dpm: ping
<tvoss> sergiusens, jdstrand that's part of qtsensors-ubuntu
<tvoss> sergiusens, jdstrand it's a configuration file to tell qtsensors to load our backends
<bfiller> sergiusens: address book is not yet a click though - that hasn't landed yet
<bfiller> sergiusens: or has it?
<sergiusens> bfiller, nope
<jdstrand> tvoss: sure-- but why is the address book all of a sudden needing /bin/dash?
<tvoss> jdstrand, that I don't know
<sergiusens> tvoss, it's not related to sensors; as the camera as click works fine with sensors blocked
<jdstrand> maybe it is doing it since it couldn't read the file
<sergiusens> sensors.conf that is
<jdstrand> sergiusens: can you add the '/etc/xdg/QtProject/Sensors.conf r,' to the address book profile and try again?
<sergiusens> jdstrand, sure
<bfiller> jdstrand: is this on a released image? address-book-app hasn't been released since 11-15-13
<bfiller> I mean updated since then
<sergiusens> jdstrand, I did it to the easyprof, but you are doing it the right way :-)
<jdstrand> bfiller: sergiusens just pointed it out to me now. it sounds not
<jdstrand> bfiller: so, this might not be anything new. the addressbook app is not normally confined but it is in this scenario
<jdstrand> bfiller: so this could have always been there. when we do confine it, we'll want to know why and probably fix it
<sergiusens> jdstrand, ok, that got rid of my DENs
<jdstrand> oh, nice! :)
<jdstrand> sergiusens: can you file a bug on /etc/xdg/QtProject/Sensors.conf?
<sergiusens> jdstrand, on easyprof for that?
<jdstrand> sergiusens: apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu
<sergiusens> sure in any case
<jodh> tedg: xnox is seeing lots of RecoverableProblem apport reports for upstart on Touch - can you remind us why/where these are coming from?
<tedg> jodh, I think that was the restart issue.  HUD reports one if it doesn't have a session bus variable when it starts.
<tedg> jodh, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/hud/trunk.14.04/view/head:/data/hud.conf.in
<jodh> tedg: ah, right. I wonder if there is a way to actually log a message in that type of problem report stating the condition that failed (to avoid future confusion :)?
<jodh> tedg: thanks
<tedg> jodh, You should be able to look at the duplicate signature
<xnox> tedg: what does that mean? DuplicateSignature: icon-path-unhandled-com.ubuntu.notes_notes_1.4.235    IconPath: /usr/share/click/preinstalled/.click/users/@all/com.ubuntu.notes/notepad   IconValue: notepad
<tedg> jodh, I'd be happy to add other variables if that'd help
<jodh> yeah, it's a bit opaque atm :)
<tedg> xnox, That's from the click hook.  It means they have an icon configured that doesn't exist.
<xnox> tedg: excellent.
 * jodh goes to raise a feature-request on apport...
<sergiusens> tedg, what's the policy there? some are provided by ubuntu-mobile icons
<tedg> sergiusens, I think that click packages should be self-contained, no?
<tedg> sergiusens, We're not looking in icon themes...
 * tedg likes being able to write software to report bugs for him :-)
<tedg> It's kinda meta-lazy
<xnox> tedg: i wish you'd file it against the actual app, but i guess filing it against /sbin/init makes people go "OMG!" and try work out what's going on.
<tedg> xnox, Yeah, that's not as easy as I'd like.  apport likes reporting on PIDs, but you don't always have that.
<mhall119> bzoltan1: ping
<bzoltan1> mhall119:  hello
<mhall119> bzoltan1: hey, we just recently got QtFeedback working, and I want to post the API docs for that, but I'm not sure if they should go into the existing SDK 1.0 docs section, or if I need to start a new SDK 2.0 (or 1.5) section
<bzoltan1> mhall119:  good question.. I think it is fine in the 1.0
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> same for QtMultimedia I assume, since that's actually been available for quite some time
<tvoss> didrocks, sil2100 can I ask you for a review: https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/qtubuntu-sensors/cmake-setup-take-2
<tedg> jodh, Also FYI, you can search based on the duplicate signature: https://errors.ubuntu.com/bucket/?id=DBusSessionAddressNotSet
<dpm> cwayne, pong!
<sergiusens> jdstrand, renato_ a new batch; dbus ones now http://paste.ubuntu.com/6727292/
<cwayne> dpm: hiya, just checking if you had a chance to check out that list of translation gaps (and wondered if those html pages are useful)
<jodh> tedg/xnox: bug 1267919. I appreciate you could actually add that today as an extra name/value pair, but I'd still prefer if apport mandated a description personally :)
<ubot5> bug 1267919 in Apport "Enhance recoverable_problem to require/allow a description of what the problem is" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1267919
<pitti> err yes, absolutely
<pitti> jodh: but it already does that, it reads the key/value pairs on stdin
<dpm> cwayne, I did, and they are useful. I've switched the language of my phone to Catalan, and I'm testing it
<pitti> jodh: i. e. key\0value1\0key2\0value2\0 [...]
<cwayne> dpm: great! i'll spend some more time tweaking my scripts and keeping those pages up-to-date then :)
<jodh> pitti: I know, so ted could add RecoverableProblemReason today, but it would still be nicer if you *had* to set a description.
<pitti> ah, so basically just define one mandatory key which you have to set
<pitti> sure
<jodh> pitti: right.
<dpm> cwayne, cool, thanks. Also, would you have some time for a trivial review? -> https://code.launchpad.net/~dpm/account-plugin-evernote/sandbox-notice/+merge/201165
<xnox> pitti: human readable e.g. "the problem of a missing icon from a click hook of a user level click-package. See key-value pairs: x, y, z for more details."
<tedg> pitti, Do you expect that key to be "RecoverableProblemReason"?
<cwayne> dpm: approved with a quick question
<pitti> tedg: ATM I don't expect anything; I've never used that feature myself, it came from ev
 * tedg would like a grace period where he just gets recoverable problems if he doesn't include it :-)
<pitti> tedg: but something like that sounds fine, or just "Description:"
<pitti> tedg: the machine readable detail should go into DuplicateSignature
<tedg> Yeah, I just wanted to decide on the key name so I could start to include it.
<tedg> I don't really care what it is, just want to do it right.
 * tedg will bbiab
<xnox> pitti: can we make it "TedSays:" field =)
<mhall119> bfiller: were you able to get an answer about whether or not infographics APIs should be used by 3rd party app devs?
<bfiller> mhall119: the api's are in place, they have not been reviewed by SDK team or guareenteed to not change
<bfiller> but they do exist and work
<bfiller> mhall119: think it's more a question for the SDK team to see if these are officialy part of the kit
<dpm> cwayne, awesome, thanks. Responded to the comment. Would you mind top-approving too? https://code.launchpad.net/~dpm/account-plugin-evernote/sandbox-notice/+merge/201165
<cwayne> bfiller: hey, is the ubuntu-ui-toolkit-gallery going to be put in a click-app as well? (like gallery-app, et al are)
<cwayne> dpm: done :)
<mhall119> bzoltan1: ^^ nik90 wrote a nice tutorial on using the infographics API that I'd like to publish on developer.u.c, can you give a +1 or -1 on whether or not that API can be considered part of the SDK
<bfiller> cwayne: I don't know
<Darkwing> Anyone know if Tethering is working in Ubuntu-Touch yet?
<ogra_> Darkwing, not yet
<ogra_> Darkwing, you can enable rndis support for the android gadget from cmdline via adb and manually set it up i suppose ...
<Darkwing> ogra_: I'm more thinking to connect my chromebook and tablet. Okay, I'll wait.
<mhall119> beuno: does the click store support translations for the app name and description?
<beuno> mhall119, it does
<beuno> in the appstore UI
<mhall119> perfect, thanks
<mhall119> beuno: also, is there a way to file bugs against apps in the store?  I have several that don't display an icon once installed
<beuno> mhall119, there isn't, each app has their own support mechanism
<mhall119> ok
<ogra_> beuno, i remember i had to fill a bug link when submitting my clicks, is that publically exposed somewhere ?
<jdstrand> sergiusens: I don't doubt it-- there are probably going to be a lot since we haven't profiled addressbook app. is this for a work item?
<beuno> ogra_, it will be soon, in the scope and a web ui I'm planning
<bfiller> sergiusens: where do the contents of the click packages get installed?
<cwayne> bfiller: either /opt/click.ubuntu.com/, /usr/share/click/preinstalled/, or /custom/click/ i think
<bfiller> cwayne: great thanks
<pmcgowan> bfiller, there also stuff in /home/phablet like in .local
<bfiller> tedg: did I get the syntax right here? it's failing for me using onClicked: Qt.openUrlExternally("appid://com.ubuntu.gallery/gallery/currentVersion")
<bfiller> but worked with onClicked: Qt.openUrlExternally("appid://com.ubuntu.gallery/gallery/2.9.1")
<tedg> bfiller, No, you need "current-user-version" instead of "currentVersion"
<bfiller> tedg: ah, thanks
<bfiller> sorry I forgot to write that down the other day
<tedg> np
<bfiller> tedg: and it's ok to use appid:// instead of appid:/// ?
<tedg> bfiller, Yes, because the package name is a valid domain name.
<bfiller> ok
<labsin> tedg, I saw your branch for fat packages is merged now. Any idea when it's going to be build for trusty?
<tedg> labsin, No, unfortunately I don't.
<labsin> :/ something else. Can I somewhere find a list default packages for touch (so I know which libs I need to add myself.
<pmcgowan> labsin, you can check the build manifest, but be aware its still changing
<rtg> rsalveti, uploaded linux-mako 3.4.0-4.22 to c-k-t PPA after rebase against android-msm-mako-3.4-kitkat-mr1
<rsalveti> rtg: awesome, just in time, thanks!
<labsin> pmcgowan, Yes, I was looking for that. I only found for the desktop
<labsin> Could you point me to them?
<bfiller> kenvandine: where in content-hub are apps launched? in process of moving gallery from deb to click and guessing we'll need to update it's appid url to invoke it
<kenvandine> that shouldn't need any changes
<kenvandine> it uses libupstart_app_launch
<kenvandine> so doesn't actually use a url
<kenvandine> uses the appid to launch it
<kenvandine> oh... but we will need to change the default in gsettings
<kenvandine> if the appid is changing
<bfiller> kenvandine: right
<kenvandine> so just needs to be changed in the gsettings schema
<bfiller> kenvandine: currently is gallery-app, guessing it would need to be com.ubuntu.gallery? not sure of exact format
<bfiller> using Qt.openUrl I pass appid://com.ubuntu.gallery/gallery/current-user-version
<kenvandine> i think so
<bfiller> let me try it
<kenvandine> bfiller, does "upstart-app-launch com.ubuntu.gallery"  start it?
<bfiller> kenvandine: trying
<sergiusens> bfiller, click pkgdir [pkg]
<bfiller> kenvandine: this works upstart-app-launch com.ubuntu.gallery_gallery_2.9.1
<bfiller> kenvandine: but don't really want the version info in there
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> we should confirm with tedg what we really need there for libupstart-app-launch
<kenvandine> bfiller, how about com.ubuntu.gallery/gallery/current-user-version ?
<bfiller> kenvandine: nope, neither does com.ubuntu.gallery_gallery_current_user_version
<mhall119> tvoss: no haptics for Nexus7 (grouper)?
<pmcgowan> labsin, http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/
<pmcgowan> mhall119, no vibrator afaik
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> no HW
<kenvandine> bfiller, "upstart-app-launch com.ubuntu.notes" works on my device
<mhall119> also, I don't see auto-correct or predictive text in r121, what gives?
<cwayne> bfiller: upstart-app-launch gallery-app works for me
<kenvandine> i would think the same would work
<kenvandine> cwayne, he's changing it to click
<cwayne> oh right
<kenvandine> so renaming gallery-app
<bfiller> kenvandine: weird, for me upstart-app-launch com.ubuntu.notes tries to launch but just get white screen
<bfiller> kenvandine: maybe I should reboot
<kenvandine> when all else fails :)
<Finn__> Hello, need some guidance on installing Ubuntu Touch on my Nexus 7 2012
<mhall119> Finn__: are you running Ubuntu on your desktop?
<Finn__> I unlocked, ran the phablet-flash, but when I reboot it, I only get the Google Logo
<Finn__> Yes
<mhall119> hmmm, try phablet-flash again with the -b flag, sounds like something went wrong
<bfiller> kenvandine: same problem after reboot, which build number are you on? I'm a few days back
<ogra_> and be patient, booting is slow
<Finn__> mhall119 ok thanks, ill get right on it
<mhall119> or right, first boot is still slow isn't it?
<mhall119> Finn__: you might try waiting a bit before re-trying
<ogra_> slower than subsequent ones, yes
<kenvandine> bfiller, 121
<Finn__> mhall119: how long is a bit you think? 5 minutes?
<bfiller> kenvandine: going to upgrade and try
<mhall119> Finn__: I don't remember, I haven't fresh-flashed a device in agest
<mhall119> nik90: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tajchert.hours ideas for the clock app perhaps?
<sergiusens> jdstrand, everything is going click now; let me fetch the bp
<sergiusens> jdstrand, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1312-convert-apps-to-click
<tvoss> mhall119, no vibrator in the n7
<jdstrand> sergiusens: ok, I already have a work item. when convenient, can you put the converted apps somewhere so I can try them?
<sergiusens> jdstrand, sure
<jdstrand> thanks. no rush, I won't get to it today
<Finn__> mhall119: phablet-flash doesnt have a -f switch.
<mhall119> Finn__: -b, will re-install the recovery mode stuff
<Finn__> oh man, sorry, read wrong
<Finn__> trying that now, thanks
<Finn__> phablet-flash -b ubuntu-system --bootstrap  -d grouper --channel devel-proposed
<Finn__> no, this is what I ran : 'phablet-flash ubuntu-system -b --bootstrap  -d grouper --channel devel-proposed'
<Finn__> so... lets see how it goes :)
<bfiller> tedg: upstart_app_launch is used by content-hub, what is form of arg to pass to get latest version of com.ubuntu.gallery click package?
<bfiller> tedg: running upstart_app_launch com.ubuntu.gallery just shows white screen
<tedg> bfiller, Yeah, UAL doesn't have any notion of looking up the version.
<bfiller> tedg: I can only make it work passing upstart_app_launch com.ubuntu.gallery_gallery_2.9.1
<tedg> Didn't know there was a requirement there...
<tedg> kenvandine, thoughts?
<tedg> Not sure that UAL should do that.
<bfiller> tedg: can UAL accept appid:// url's like Qt.openUrlExternally?
<tedg> bfiller, No, the URL dispatcher turns those into full application triplets.
<tedg> I'd kinda like to avoid having it be too smart.
<bfiller> kenvandine: maybe content-hub should be using http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtgui/qdesktopservices.html#openUrl instead of calling upstart-app-launch direclty
<tedg> But all it's really using the version for today is verifying it to ensure you get what you ask for.
<tedg> bfiller, That's what I'm thinking.  But not sure what kenvandine needs there.
<bfiller> tedg: yup, just want to avoid content-hub having any knowledge of specific versions - just needs a generic mapping to the default app
<tedg> Seems like content hub should know the version anyway though.  As it would have to be getting a registration from the click hook.
<bfiller> tedg: true
<bfiller> tedg: but today it has hardcoded mappings
<bfiller> (to desktop file based id's)
<tedg> Ah, so you're saying kenvandine is lazy ;-)
<bfiller> I didn't say that :)
<tedg> This is what he gets for going to lunch.
<kenvandine> ha
<kenvandine> specifically this is for gsettings, for the default
<kenvandine> which isn't touched by the hook
<kenvandine> bfiller, the hub is just using the lib for upstart-app-launch, as recommended by tedg :)
<tedg> kenvandine, How do you know the default?  From GSettings?
<kenvandine> yeah
<bfiller> kenvandine: so if all of our defaults are click packages should things work without change?
<kenvandine> right now the default is set to gallery-app
<tedg> Seems like your defaults should probably be URLs.
<bfiller> tedg: kind of agree, like appid://xxx/xxx/current-user-version
<kenvandine> tedg, probably... but that stuff was done before we had url-dispatcher
<kenvandine> tedg, does libupstart-app-launch have a way of using those? or should we switch to openUrl ?
<kenvandine> actually, not sure that would work
<tedg> kenvandine, OpenURL or use liburl-dispatcher
<kenvandine> since we detect if it's running already too
<kenvandine> and switch to it
<tedg> kenvandine, UAL does that
<kenvandine> does it give me a way to detect if it's running?
<kenvandine> we do that first, so we know to exit the app if we started it
<tedg> kenvandine, You don't need to.  If it is running, it switches to it, if it's not, it launches it.
<herise> If ubuntu phone ever makes its way to reality
<herise> Would it mean all linux apps would run on it?
 * popey looks at the reality of his desk
<tedg> kenvandine, If we started it?
<popey> no
 * kenvandine uses it as his primary phone :)
<kenvandine> tedg, if the hub starts the app
<tedg> kenvandine, Why does that matter?
<kenvandine> it remembers that and after picking it exits the app
<herise> Why not?
<kenvandine> so we don't keep extra instances running
<kenvandine> although that'll go away when we have the trusted sessions
<herise> I know about architecture differences, I assume the app is ported to arm
<tedg> kenvandine, Why not just rely on Unity closing the app when it needs resources?
<herise> packages.debian.org/unstable/main/fceux for example this one. Would it work?
<kenvandine> design... doesn't want gallery-app to show up as a running app after picking
<kenvandine> if you didn't intentionally launch it
<tedg> ?  That's confusing.
<bfiller> tedg: right because it's supposed to be more of an embedded helper
<kenvandine> tedg, why?  you shouldn't even need to know gallery started to pick
<bfiller> tedg: users just trying to pick some content, doesn't know/care they are launching an app behind the scenese
<kenvandine> with trusted sessions it will be embedded, so it'll start a new instance but appear as the same app as the requesting app
<bfiller> so expectation is it would be gone when you are done picking
<tedg> So how does it look?  Does it provide a different interface?
<bfiller> yes
<bfiller> potentially
<kenvandine> tedg, ideally yes
<tedg> Oh, how are you doing that?
<bfiller> provides it's picking interface
<kenvandine> like gallery has pickMode
<kenvandine> so it goes right into a picking UI
<tedg> But you won't use UAL for that, right?
<kenvandine> that lets you select
<kenvandine> not sure yet
<tedg> Or, are there requirements I'm missing :-)
<kenvandine> it'll be part of the lifecycle
<kenvandine> it'll start the other process as part of the trusted session
<kenvandine> so appears to the shell as a single app running
<kenvandine> addressbook + gallery
<tedg> But an apps not going to checking lifecycle stuff until it gets to idle, so it'll be hard to know what UI I should show.
<kenvandine> you only see addressbook
<kenvandine> the picking UI will show over the other app
<bfiller> kenvandine: that's not for 14.04 though right?
<kenvandine> so you can't switch between them, for example
<kenvandine> bfiller, not sure
<kenvandine> i hope so :)
<bfiller> kenvandine: for short term I'd say use whatever mechanism you're using today to determine if app is already running
<tedg> kenvandine, K, so you might be interested in the untrusted-helper thing I'm doing for infographics.
<bfiller> kenvandine: but then do the launch using QDesktopServices.openUrl() and pass it the appid url
<kenvandine> right now it is pretty awkward to be able to switch out of gallery and back to addressbook without finishing picking
<bfiller> kenvandine: should all work
<tedg> kenvandine, That assumes that someone else is managing the process, and provides hooks.
<kenvandine> bfiller we do that check based on the appid
<kenvandine> which is what is in gsettings for defaults
<kenvandine> tedg, what's the untrusted helper?
<popey> herise: the phone doesn't ship with x
<tedg> kenvandine, Something that's not an "application" but needs to be confined and managed.
<tedg> kenvandine, In our case, it's a tool that turns data into SVGs.
<kenvandine> tedg, shouldn't upstart-app-launch be able to launch com.ubuntu.gallery?
<kenvandine> without a version?
<tedg> kenvandine, It'll never show up on the launcher or anything like that.  But it isn't trusted enough to running except when managed by someone else.
<kenvandine> it works for me with com.ubuntu.notes
<tedg> ?
<kenvandine> tedg, that would be useful for signon-ui for sure
<tedg> I'd like to keep UAL from "detecting" stuff, and just keep it the executor.  If it needs to, it's only a mater of software.
<kenvandine> but it works now?
<tedg> We're just using the version right now to check to ensure it works.
<kenvandine> i can do it from the shell and it works fo rme
<kenvandine> for me
<tedg> It isn't intended to work.
<bfiller> kenvandine: still doesn't work for me even on build 121
<kenvandine> didn't work for bfiller
<tedg> :-)
<kenvandine> weird
<bfiller> kenvandine: only works if I give full version
 * kenvandine just did it again... still works :)
<bfiller> very odd
<kenvandine> indeed
<bfiller> must be a bug/race
<bfiller> does that work for you tedg ?
<tedg> kenvandine, You probably have a com.ubuntu.notes desktop file somewhere.
<kenvandine> ah, maybe
<tedg> bfiller, I'm in the middle of flashing my phone so I can't check :-/
<tedg> I have an autopilot date with alesage this afternoon, so I need a clean phone.
<mhall119> bah, that awful OSK event fall-through bug is back on the Nexus 7
<mhall119> typing on the OSK will click any item under the OSK
<popey> mhall119: here, have an owl flipping a table  (ÊâÊ)ã¯ å½¡ â»ââ»
<mhall119> lol
<mhall119> seems appropriate
<mhall119> a tahr would be better though
<popey> (â¯Â°â¡Â°)â¯ï¸µ â»ââ» is the best I can do
<mhall119> I like it
<bfiller> kenvandine: idea - if we used com.ubuntu.xxx as the app id maybe there is a way to lookup the current version first then continue to use UAL as your doing now
<kenvandine> tedg, so to check if it's running, i use upstart_app_launch_get_primary_pid
<kenvandine> bfiller,  i was just thinking the inverse
<bfiller> kenvandine: as UAL seems to work fine with fully constructed name
<kenvandine> maybe we could use the appid:// and parse it
<kenvandine> if there is a lib for that
<bfiller> kenvandine: htat works
<tedg> kenvandine, There isn't, but I could move that into the lib.
<kenvandine> tedg, could either of those work?
<tedg> It's just in the service right now.
<bfiller> tedg: or modify UAL to find latest version if none specified
<kenvandine> maybe a new function, upstart_app_launch_get_primary_pid_for_url
<kenvandine> that takes an appid url
<tedg> Yeah, I'd rather put it in the lib and leave the core down-and-dirty
<kenvandine> tedg, do you also suggest that we shouldn't use upstart_app_launch_start_application ?
<tedg> kenvandine, No, I just suggest giving it the full triplet.
<kenvandine> what do you mean? parse the url?
<tedg> kenvandine, Why don't you make your GSettings key "a(sss)" ?
<kenvandine> generally what we pass to that is the appid as it's registered by the click hook
<tedg> I mean, there's no reason to have the URL really.
<kenvandine> but then we need to put the version in the setting
<kenvandine> seem ugly
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> current-user-version ?
<tedg> No, then handle a.... yes.
<kenvandine> tedg, what's the purpose gallery in the middle there?
<annerajb> does ubuntu touch have planned convergeance of plugging the HDMI and going to desktop mode? instead of just showing the same device screen?
<kenvandine> seems weird to me
<tedg> I think you want to have all three just-in-case, but... no one will probably use it.
<kenvandine> annerajb, yep!
<tedg> kenvandine, It's the application in the package.  Packages can have several apps.
<mhall119> annerajb: that's the plan
<kenvandine> tedg, interesting... i hadn't considered that
<tedg> kenvandine, Idea being something like "com.facebook" could have "feed" and "messenger" in the same package.
<kenvandine> so why not com.ubuntu/gallery/current-user-version ?
<kenvandine> nm
<tedg> kenvandine, Because the package name has to be unique.  If bfiller's team shipped everything in one click, that would work.
<kenvandine> i see :)
<kenvandine> so the host portion is really the click package name
<tedg> Yes
<kenvandine> ok
<annerajb> mhall119, awesome can't wait to start porting my cm-11.0 device :D
<kenvandine> what about using upstart_app_launch_start_application
<kenvandine> that takes appid as an arg
<kenvandine> why wouldn't com.ubuntu.gallery/gallery/current-user-version work there?
<tedg> It could.  But that doesn't exist.  And I'm fine with that.
<tedg> (fine with adding it, not that it doesn't exist)
<kenvandine> unless you have a better suggestion
<kenvandine> i could stop the triplet in gsettings
<kenvandine> and construct it start it
<tedg> I think I'd have it take three parameters (and be a different function), but that's a detail.
<kenvandine> or... even better a function to construct one
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> same for upstart_app_launch_get_primary_pid
<kenvandine> actually
<kenvandine> i don't really care to get the pid
<kenvandine> just detect if it's running
<kenvandine> i think...
 * kenvandine checks the code
<kenvandine> yeah, i don't care about having the pid, just a bool would be great
<kenvandine> tedg, does that work for you?
<tedg> kenvandine, Yeah, I think that works.  What's your timeline?
 * tedg is behind on the infographic stuff for pete-woods
<kenvandine> it'll block bfiller's work on click packaging gallery
<kenvandine> but
<kenvandine> i can probably do it in ual and submit a branch
<kenvandine> shouldn't be hard
<tedg> kenvandine, Cool, yeah.  So I'd like to have the function return the appid, and then you can pass the appid to _start().
<tedg> That way you can store a variable name in GSettings, but still have the appid to query things quick later.
<kenvandine> tedg, for UAL api changes, it's really just adding 2 functions?
<tedg> Basically we only take the penalty once.
<kenvandine> oh... so 3 functions
<kenvandine> one to parse
<kenvandine> another to check running and another to start?
<kenvandine> i guess not to start... since i'll construct one for the current function?
<tedg> No I was thinking more like "char * variable_to_appid(pkg, app, version)" that returns an appid
<tedg> Then you can pass that to traditional start.
<kenvandine> and i could use the existing upstart_app_launch_get_primary_pid as well
<annerajb> what does touch_sf4p  and touch_custom Mean?
<tedg> Yeah, if you want one that checks for zero and returns a bool, that's fine with me.
<kenvandine> char * upstart_app_launch_url_to_appid(pkg, app, version)
<tedg> It's not really a URL, but yes.
<tedg> Not sure what to call it.  "variable triplet" is too long.
<tedg> Then I can make URL dispatcher use the same function.
<kenvandine> it looks like a url :)
<kenvandine> and url dispatcher can use it as a url...
<tedg> You can still most of the code from URL dispatcher
<kenvandine> so why not :)
<tedg> Heh, be sure to provide a good doc string since there's no "://" in it.
<kenvandine> char * upstart_app_launch_triplet_to_appid(pkg, app, version)
<kenvandine> how's that?
<tedg> +1
<kenvandine> excellent
<kenvandine> bfiller, so i'll take a swing at this, and this will block your gallery click package
<kenvandine> bfiller, ok?
<bfiller> kenvandine: sounds good
<bfiller> kenvandine: we'll need the same for address book as well (that will be click) so let me know when it's all ready and we can coordinate the release
<kenvandine> tedg, it's the regex in the dispatcher, appidre right?
<kenvandine> bfiller, will do
<tedg> kenvandine, Yup
<tedg> kenvandine, You shouldn't need the regex though, as they're already 3 params
<bfiller> kenvandine: and I guess make sure that non-click packages still work for any that haven't been converted
<kenvandine> oh right... even easier :)
<kenvandine> bfiller, they will
<tedg> kenvandine, You should make your gsettings key "a(msm(sss))" :-)
<kenvandine> tedg, ugh... so to get the version i have to parse the package manifest?
<tedg> kenvandine, Yup
<kenvandine> ah cool, looks like some of what i need is in helpers.c already :)
<kenvandine> haha... nice "unity_too_slow_cb"
<tedg> kenvandine, I'm sure that's never been called :-)
<tedg> bfiller, Are you guys still using the file:/// urls for music/photos or is everything content hub now?
<kenvandine> tedg, it's still file uris
<bfiller> tedg: well I know gallery uses content hub, not sure about musci
<bfiller> music
<tedg> kenvandine, Is that for the scopes?
<tedg> bfiller, Is music you guys or someone else?
<bfiller> tedg: community guys, mhall119 would know who
<kenvandine> even for content requested with the content hub, gallery uses file:/// urls and the hub copies the files to a location the other app can access
<tedg> kenvandine, I mean with URL dispatcher
<tedg> I don't care about elsewhere :-)
<tedg> Basically, what the scopes hand back needs to be something that we know to launch gallery with.
<tedg> Or what ever gives that data to the scope.
<mhall119> bfiller: tedg: what are you asking?
<bfiller> mhall119: tedg wanted to know who was working on music app and about file:// usage
<tedg> mhall119, two things really, does the music scope return music:/// urls and does the music app know what to do with them.
<tedg> I'm trying to not support the file:///home/user/Music URL in URL dispatcher.
<mhall119> tedg: ah, I *think* it uses file://, but popey might know better
<boiko> bfiller: so, I discovered something weird: there is a bug in mako that if the app is already open, when I accept a call the live call is shown and the screen goes black less than a second later
<boiko> bfiller: now the weird part is that it only happens when starting the dialer-app from command line, if I start it from the lens, it doesn't happen
<mhall119> ahayzen probably knows
<ahayzen> mhall119, whts up?
<mhall119> ahayzen: what does the Music scope pass to the Music app to get it to open a particular song?
<ahayzen> mhall119, i think there are two ways... via file arguments or via the URI handler which passes file://
<bfiller> boiko: I can see why that might happen, it's probably not getting registered correctly somehow with the app manager when starting from command line
<bfiller> boiko: how are you starting it from command line?
<mhall119> tedg: ^^ there's your answer
<tedg> ahayzen, Ah, okay.  Thanks.
<ahayzen> mhall119, i *think* lool implemented the Uri Handler for us
<tedg> ahayzen, mhall119, so do you guys know when that's going to be moved into a custom URL?
<boiko> bfiller: dialer-app --desktop_file_hint=/usr/share/applications/dialer-app.desktop
<ahayzen> tedg, no
<tedg> Sounds like in the mean time I'm going to have to special case it though :-/
<bfiller> boiko: try launching it using upstart-app-launch dialer-app and see if you have same problem
<boiko> bfiller: let me see
<sergiusens> jdstrand, one more https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu/+bug/1267993
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1267993 in apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "contact avatar cannot open for read denied" [Undecided,New]
<ahayzen> tedg, i can point u to our code if u need it
<mhall119> tedg: I'm not even sure it's something on the todo list for music, if you need it we should add it
<mhall119> but it'll require coordination with the music scope
<mhall119> I'm not sure who maintains that
<ahayzen> tedg, file arguments http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~music-app-dev/music-app/trunk/view/head:/music-app.qml#L52 and URI handler http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~music-app-dev/music-app/trunk/view/head:/music-app.qml#L129
<boiko> bfiller: using upstart-app-launch works, so it is probably something related to the way the app registers itself with the app manager
<jdstrand> I'm not sure the addressbook can be confined until we get a pre-cacheable trust store
<bfiller> boiko: yeah it must be
<sergiusens> jdstrand, just for the avatars?
<jdstrand> well, we can probably do something with read_path
<bfiller> boiko: I think the shell and the system all end up calling into upstart-app-launch now and bookeeping probably different
<boiko> bfiller: but why would that start happening just now? autopilot tests were being started like that since the very beginning
<jdstrand> addressbook-app probably is the owner of /home/phablet/.local/share/evolution/addressbook/*
<tedg> ahayzen, Ah, okay, thanks!
<sergiusens> jdstrand, it's probably e-d-s but yeah
<bfiller> boiko: could be a new bug in unity-mir or appManager that is just happening now causing this issue
<jdstrand> in this case, no-- addressbook app is doing the access, not e-d-s (otherwise there wouldn't be this denial)
<ahayzen> tedg, i think basically file arguments are used when the app is started by the scope... and the uri handler if it is already running to change to tht track...but don't hold me to tht lol
<sergiusens> jdstrand, right; afaik the app can't generate avatars anyways; these I got from syncevolution
<bfiller> boiko: is this related to the crash on mako?
<tedg> ahayzen, Yeah, we need to get off the file URLs though.  They were a temporary hack.  We shouldn't care where the files are stored at the URL level.
<boiko> bfiller: not sure if it is the same problem, but might be related
<ahayzen> tedg, yeah we are bound to grilo a bit at the moment as well and don't have any code to handle http://
<boiko> bfiller: so the crash on mako happens on application startup already it seems, right? (guessing from that QUbuntu message)
<bfiller> boiko: yes
<boiko> bfiller: that one I couldn't reproduce :/
<bfiller> boiko: I also notice that if dialer is running but in the background, and phone is locked, answering from the snap decision does not promote the dialer as it used to
<bfiller> boiko: are you seeing htat
<bfiller> ?
<boiko> bfiller: I have seen pmcgowan reported that one, but I didn't look into this one yet, might be that it never did that after the migration from the previous application switching implementation
<boiko> bfiller: that's another piece of code that was not changed for quite some time now (since the app switching was reimplemented to use the URIhandler)
<bfiller> boiko: lots of moving parts, including many updates to ofono stack
<bfiller> boiko: I'm pretty sure it was working since the url transition, but not positive
<bfiller> we need to debug it
<pmcgowan> boiko, btw I am triaging some dialer-app bugs and reassigning to the source package, so dont panic if you see a lot of emails
<boiko> pmcgowan: ok, I won't :)
<boiko> bfiller: so, here is what I found: if the greeter is not shown, and we are looking at the dash, the app is promoted
<boiko> bfiller: it is only not working when the greeter is visible it seems
<bfiller> boiko: ok, not sure where the code is that is supposed to unlock the greeter and promote the app
<pmcgowan> boiko, it also works if the greeter is shown and the app is not running
<bfiller> mterry: ^^^ any ideas?
<boiko> pmcgowan: yep, but that's because all apps start maximized
 * mterry reads
<mterry> bfiller, boiko: that code is in Shell.qml in unity8
<boiko> pmcgowan: oh, you mean the greeter goes away?
<pmcgowan> boiko, yeah it works correctly
 * boiko tries
<boiko> pmcgowan: yep, just tested here, it works correctly
<boiko> pmcgowan: so, I think the reason it works when the dialer-app is not running might be because when a new app is started the greeter goes away automatically (just tried launching an app from the command line)
<pmcgowan> boiko, interesting, but I would still expect that when I open the greeter the app would be there and promoted
<boiko> pmcgowan: yep, that I am still investigating
<boiko> pmcgowan: I have seen that when the greeter is not visible, it works: the app gets correctly promoted
<pmcgowan> right
<sergiusens> davmor2, still around? if you are an app author, this is probably something you can verify for me bug #1268007
<ubot5> bug 1268007 in unity-scope-click (Ubuntu) "installed apps that where unpublished display error on long press" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1268007
<boiko> pmcgowan: so, I did the following: started dialer-app, went back to the dash, and on a terminal I ran: upstart-app-launch dialer-app
<boiko> it got correctly promoted
<pmcgowan> you mean with the greeter up, and it went away?
<boiko> pmcgowan: greeter didn't go away, and the app was not promoted
<sergiusens> pmcgowan, hey, can you reproduce this one: bug #1268009
<ubot5> bug 1268009 in unity-scope-click (Ubuntu) "Flaky network breaks click scope, installed apps not seen anymore" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1268009
<pmcgowan> let me see
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, did you have wifi off as well? I have 127.0.1.1 as the nameserver
<sergiusens> pmcgowan, I tried with wifi on and just changing 127.0.1.1 to 10.0.0.0
<sergiusens> let me fix the description
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, did you toggle the network off/on or something?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan, nope
<pmcgowan> I can still see everything
<sergiusens> pmcgowan, I'm on wifi; I edit resolv.conf and change the DNS server;
<sergiusens> pmcgowan, search for something
<pmcgowan> now more stuff went away, and installed still there
<sergiusens> pmcgowan, hmmm, I can reliably reproduce :-/
<pmcgowan> search is just spinning
<sergiusens> pmcgowan, switch lens and go back
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, after the search its weird
<pmcgowan> I see the first 9 apps only, and no More category at all
<pmcgowan> swicthed to home and back and now they are there
<pmcgowan> now they are 9 again, wird
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, I always see something, either all installed or first 9, it keeps toggling
<pmcgowan> like every 10 secs
<omac> http://pastebin.com/XaHUpXXN
<omac> sendSMS using qt for android 5.2.0 with c++
<omac> My intention is to do the same app within ubuntu touch.
<omac> Is there a c++ api for sending SMS text messages in ubuntu touch?  I was looking around for something like this for sending email messages also, but from within the actual ubuntu touch api knowledge base, there doesn't seem to be anything mentioned.  I did find libcurl  http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/c/smtp-tls.html   and vmime https://github.com/kisli/vmime/tree/master/tests/net
<sergiusens> omac, you do it with ofono, there's also ofono-qt http://paste.ubuntu.com/6729062/
<sergiusens> omac, your app most likely won't be supported in the store though
<sergiusens> not yet at least
<omac> The python script you just pastbin'ed.  What is the name of it?  Is it in the repos?
<sergiusens> omac, it's in  /usr/share/ofono/scripts/send-sms
<sergiusens> from ofono
<omac> ofono-qt 6132187497 blahmessage
<omac> do I need delivery report?  do you have an example about delivery report somewhere?
<omac> sergiusens: THANKS...You'll helped me a great deal sms wise
<sergiusens> np
<omac> going back to what you mentioned about the store.  It won't be supported?
<omac> Are you saying we can't build straight c++ apps for ubuntu touch?
<omac> I'm actually doing my best to completely avoid the qml/declarative stuff at the moment.
<omac> Of course I will provide the sources for what I have at the moment.
<sergiusens> omac, sms and such are supposed to go through trusted helpers
<sergiusens> I might be wrong though
<sergiusens> jdstrand, what's the deal with apps and sms? Do you know?
<omac> http://adequatech.ca/snowloadcount.tar.xz
<omac> it's a qt for android app.
<omac> qt 5.2.0.
<omac> the gui part should be ok from ubuntu touch however.
<omac> QWizardPage should exist for ubuntu touch right?
<omac> the app compiles and runs on the desktop and the nexus 4 android 4.2.2(api 17).
<omac> sergiusens:  do I need the delivery report parameter in that script?  can I get away with ofono-qt 6132187497 blahmessage?
<sergiusens> omac, I'm not sure; I am not a Qt person
<omac> i appreciate your time.  thanks.
<wolfzrat> hello
<omac> hello
<wolfzrat> i have a samsung tablet, can I put ubuntu-touch on it?
<omac> good question.  Lots of people are hoping ubuntu would offer up official support for samsung devices.  It hasn't happened in any official way.
<omac> xda-devs might have a rom or two.
<omac> join the #xda-devs channel and other will be able to help you there.
<omac> which model do you have?
<jdstrand> sergiusens: there is no policy for sms. that could incur data charges, so if apps were going to do it, we'd need a trusted helper
<wolfzrat> i believe its the samsung tab 2
<omac> wolfzrat:  I checked around, there doesn't seem to be any very recent images for samsung galaxy tab 2.  There are two models for that.
<omac> http://askubuntu.com/questions/330897/installing-ubuntu-touch-on-samsung-galaxy-tab-2-p3100
<wolfzrat> i have the model type
<wolfzrat> its a samsung tab 2 7.0
<omac> If you really want ubuntu touch, I would suggest you get one of the officially supported pieces of hardware which are the Google Nexus tablets or phones.
<omac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/p3100
<omac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/p3110
<omac> which one do you have though?
<wolfzrat> model: GT-P3113TSSXAR
<omac> it's a wifi tablet right?  not 3g?
<omac> http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=4922&c=samsung_gt-p3113_galaxy_tab_2_7.0_wifi_8gb
<omac> My only advice to you is to look for another Omap 4430-based ubuntu image that utilizes a display 7" or smaller.  You can test it that way.
<wolfzrat> sry omac
<wolfzrat> yes it has wifi build it
<wolfzrat> *in
<omac> I have seen advent vega with ubuntu 11.04 running on it, but it was not very fast and the display was too small so touching a big finger would touch too many buttons at the same time
<wolfzrat> hmm so what tab would be good for touch ubuntu
<omac> motorola devices were all omap based.
<wolfzrat> hmmm ok
<omac> ignore my advice.
<omac> It's too complicated.
<omac> there are too many differences.
<wolfzrat> lol ok
<omac> if there was a cyanogenmod project for your particular device, there would be a fighting chance to get ubuntu touch on it, but there is work to be done.
<wolfzrat> right
<omac> http://download.cyanogenmod.org/
<omac> http://download.cyanogenmod.org/?device=p5113
<omac> There is a cyanogenmod, but it seems dated.
<omac> google nexus 4 uses cm 10.2
<omac> http://download.cyanogenmod.org/?device=mako&type=test
<omac> the p5113 uses cm 10.0 .....http://download.cyanogenmod.org/?device=p5113
<omac> this means there is no easy build to get ubuntu touch on your device.
<omac> tweaks would need to be done for sure.
<omac> I don't do those tweaks.  I'm just an afficionado.  I did try to do something like this for the advent vega, but the terrible support from nvidia for their tegra 250 chipset made be abandon that idea.  It's also because the hardware was too plain slow ..i.e. usb 1.0 interfacing with the tablet and the flash memory in it was limited. also.
<omac> I imagine since there hasn't been any work done on the p5113 device since 2012, that the same kind of issues surround this device also.
<omac> It's just too freakin slow to flash and try and flash and try the os on these older devices.
<omac> Don't get me wrong.  It is a respectable dual-core 32-bit device.  It's just that now you can get an octa-core and possibly 64-bit in a few months time device for roughly 200-300$.
<omac> The other general rule of thumb I learned with my nvidia tegra 250 tablet is don't expect any kind of support past 2 years.
<omac> Your device is made in 2012.  Time is up.  Start shopping for something newer and faster or get left in the dust.
<omac> or even worse, you will be wasting so much time searching for solutions to your problems with dated hardware you will never know how much time you truly wasted.
<omac> All this to say, if you really want to see ubuntu touch, buy a google nexus 4.  If you get a google nexus 5, eventually there will be an ubuntu touch for it, but it hasn't materialized yet.  For the other android/cyanogenmod devices out there, it's luck of the draw from I have experienced.
<omac> The SOC chips with different combo cpu, graphics, network, phone chipsets on them plus add in the DRM salt to the mix makes it a real challenge to truly imagine all mobile devices with ubuntu touch on them with the limited canonical developers there are focus on just making everything work on the official devices.
<kaimast> yeah... embedded devices is still a proprietary mess. It is really hard to port (and maintain) stuff
#ubuntu-touch 2014-01-11
<softcoder> hello.. i just installed the dual boot touch + android on my nexus 4 phone
<softcoder> a few issues ineed help with
<softcoder> a) is there a text editor.... or a way to install apps ?
<softcoder> i see no file manager or gedit
<softcoder> b) i also have no sound and i am on 4.4.2 android and DID downgrade the radio firmware to the correct 4.3... still no go
<softcoder> c) when i try to connect to my wifi router i have a large password to enter... while typoing it in (EVERY TIME) the ui seems to timeout and go back to the wifi screen not allowing me to finish entering the password
<softcoder> help with any of these will be appreciated
<egrep> softcoder: click the arrow that says something about the apps you don't have installed, and it spans out to have a list of every app you can install from the touch install place, i think, in no particularly easily decipherable order.
<egrep> softcoder: Don't know anything about no file manager...
<egrep> ...I (at least) happen to have one. I think.
<softcoder> i see no such option
<softcoder> i installed latest dual boot
<softcoder> now i want to install core apps
<softcoder> i cannot
<egrep> So you don't have a thing that says "More suggestions" under your Applications home screen?
<softcoder> no
<egrep> Hrm. Then I have no idea.
<immea> Hi. Has anyone got UT to work on the Nexus 7 2013 yet ?
<fr33r1d3> Hello. I just installed Ubuntu Touch on my Nexus 4, but it seems that it cant locate any wifi now!?
<mahadeer> hello
<mahadeer> will ubuntu support on tablets?
<mahadeer> someone please do reply?
<popey> bug 1268115  â¹
<ubot5> bug 1268115 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Cant pair non-headset device via bluetooth" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1268115
<iSDP> Hey, how's touch coming along for Hammerhead?
<FuLgOrE> iSDP: please check this http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/01/09/%23ubuntu-touch.txt
<FuLgOrE> at around 14:39 the interesting part starts
<popey> ogra_: if you get a chance can you confirm bug 1268115
<ubot5> bug 1268115 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Cant pair non-headset device via bluetooth" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1268115
<popey> (as I think you have an ouya)
<Blazetama> Hello :D
<popey> hello
<iSDP> FuLgOrE: I don't really understand all the terms being flung around, but the N5 ain't worth it?
<Blazetama> I want to help about ubuntu development, is this the right place to ask?
<popey> Blazetama: sure
<Blazetama> Great, thanks popey
<popey> iSDP: you used a term yourself - "hammerhead" :D
<popey> iSDP: it's being worked on
<popey> Blazetama: got any specific questions?
<Blazetama> @popey test
<Blazetama> yes yes
<Blazetama> im a android developer, not really good but not bad
<Blazetama> or in the other word, i know java
<popey> ok
<popey> I'm sorry.
<iSDP> popey: I am more of a android knower than Ubuntu these days, I know my way perfectly around the os and Android, but terms like ABI are new to me
<Blazetama> can i help you guys with java?
<ogra_> popey, heh, i not only have an ouya, i also have one of these http://cdn.ubergizmo.com/photos/2009/7/zeemote-js1.jpg ...
<ogra_> popey, BT testing and fixing is on the plan for Core sprint, i'll bring both devices there (together with a ton of others)
<popey> i had a blinding flash of light in bed last night, to use a controller with Ubuntu touch to play a game
<popey> Blazetama: we don't use java
<popey> for ubuntu touch that is
<iSDP> What is the main language then?
<ogra_> QML, C++, javascript
<popey> depends, for the platform, c, c++, qt, js
<popey> for apps, as ogra_ says, QML, C++, JS
<popey> although there is one java app in the store â»
<Blazetama> js, do you mean javascript?
<popey> yes
<Blazetama> i see
<popey> ogra_: i thought I might be able to use my xbox controller (usb) but unfortunately the Nexus 4 provides zero power over USB OTG â¹
<popey> which sucks
<ogra_> you would need it in host mode
<ogra_> iirc that requires kernel patches
<ogra_> (intrusive ones)
<popey> its still provides no power
<Blazetama> how about the "unity" in this link : https://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/development/unity8/
<popey> so you need a OTG Y cable and external power source
<popey> hardware issue with n4
<Blazetama> what language did they use?
<ogra_> powered hub should do
<ogra_> BillyZane, QML and C++
<popey> lots to lug around for just a quick game
<iSDP> If only I could use my phone as the main pc
<popey> which is why i switched to trying my bluetooth controller
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> Blazetama, ^^^ (sorry BillyZane)
<Blazetama> BillyZane?
<ogra_> Blazetama, yeah, IRC client auto completion messup
<Blazetama> i see, then its c++
<Blazetama> i might need some times to learn first
<Blazetama> i know c# but dont know c++
<Blazetama> pretty rare eh
<Blazetama> my collage does NOT teach c++
<Blazetama> and i never used it in my office
<Blazetama> LOL
<ogra_> well, buy a book ;)
<ogra_> if you understood one language, learning anothe one isnt so hard
<Blazetama> Thanks guys for the help :D
<Blazetama> i just used ubuntu for around six months
<Blazetama> and i think its amazing
<Blazetama> thats why i think i might be a little help
<Blazetama> :D
<labsin> I am running the emulator. Anyone knows how I can run qmlscene from the terminal/adb shell
<FuLgOrE> popey: regarding power over USB OTG: the nexus 5 provides power over USB. I tried to connect a mouse and it worked
<labsin> I get QUbuntu: Could not create application instance
<popey> FuLgOrE: good news
<FuLgOrE> at the moment, my nexus 5 is powered off and wait for ubuntu touch :(
<FuLgOrE> I use my samsung galaxy s2 until ubuntu touch is available for N5
<labsin> from adb shell I get QXcbConnection: Could not connect to display
<FuLgOrE> that's the reason why I'm here every day or at least "study" all log files :D
<FuLgOrE> with cyanogenmod, my nexus 5 is not better for me than my galaxy s2. so hurry guys. :-D (i'm joking)
<FuLgOrE> I would like to help if I could
<FuLgOrE> maybe I can be a beta-tester, if N5 will be supported
<ogra_> the android 4.4 port of our HW trees should be ready soon, then it should easily be possible to port to N5
<ogra_> but with the focus on tablets this release cycle you will more likely see a fully supported N7 than N5 within the next monts ... the N5 will have to rely on community support most likely
<ogra_> (N7 2013 that is)
<iSDP> What's with the subreddit being private?
<popey> iSDP: what subreddit
<iSDP>   /r/ubuntutouch
<iSDP> Http://reddit.com/r/ubuntutouch
<popey> no idea who made that
<iSeeDeadPixels> Dammit stupid wifi and whatsapp
<popey> no idea who made that subreddit
<iSeeDeadPixels> Well, it's private
<popey> there's /r/Ubuntu and /r/UbuntuPhone
<iSeeDeadPixels> I'll hang out in Ubuntu phone then haha
<FuLgOrE> ogra_: do you think it will be possible to use the phone and sms function soon on the N5?
<FuLgOrE> ogra_: I ask because I cannot help with programming so I would need at least the basics of the phone
<thresh> meh, the screen on N10 is broken
<thresh> when I lower the right notification part, left part of it stays on the screen forever
<thresh> hmm, not there after the reboot
<thresh> ah, it's something that appears when I go into settings only.
<Shiggitay|Nexus5> OK there we go
<Shiggitay|Nexus5> Sup peeps?
<Shiggitay|Nexus5> rsalveti: r u here? I have off tonight so if you want me to test any hal images etc I can help with that
<OrokuSaki> SUP! Anyone know if I should use CM10.1 or 10.2 for Trusty?
<ajalkane> On Ubuntu 13.10 trying to run updates I get "Blocked     buntu-sdk-1.095.i386   Ubuntu SDK"
<ajalkane> Ie. I can't update the SDK. How to resolve this issue, any hints?
<ajalkane> I'm trying to run FileManager's autopilot tests, but I get this kind of error:
<ajalkane> AttributeError: Class 'MainView' has no attribute 'wait_select_single'.
<ajalkane> I gather I miss some package. Anyone have idea what package I should install?
<paulo> hello
<paulo> anyone around?
<paulo> no one....?
<sergiusens> ajalkane, you need autopilot 1.4
<ajalkane> sergiusens: okay... what's the correct procedure to update to autopilot 1.4 on Ubuntu 13.10 or should I be using 14.04 development version?
<sergiusens> ajalkane, I thought autopilot was available on 13.10; don't you have it?
<paulo> is mms still borked in ubuntu touch
#ubuntu-touch 2014-01-12
<nexus7-noboot> hey
<nexus7-noboot> anyone know why the final boot into touch on nexus 7 gets stuck on the Google load screen?
<nexus7-noboot> join #ubuntu-touch
<nexus7-noboot> who
<r3pwn> Hey, can someone help me with a build real quick?
<shootingiron> Hey there, i was thinking of buying a samsung s3 and running ubuntu on it, is that possible?
<shootingiron> ... is there a place where i ca find out if it runs on that phone?
<shootingiron> I'm really wondering if ubuntu phone is mature enough for me to use, i'm not a power user.
<Barneyss> Hi, I have bandwith limit internet and I want to try Ubuntu-Touch, may u tell me how MB needs to download ? THANKS
<Barneyss> I Find it, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/  It's about 400 MB ! WoW . Thanks Mr Self ;-) ,  np :D
<flyankur> Hey, I just installed Ubuntu Touch on Nexus4. How do I access terminal & other core linux functionality on this ?
<Shiggitay|Nexus5> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/
<shiggitay> sorry... was cross device copy pasting
<flyankur> Hey, I just installed Ubuntu Touch on Nexus4. How do I access terminal & other core linux functionality on this ?
<ogra_> flyankur, either throug the terminal app (but there is currently a bug that breaks the emter key) or via adb
<flyankur> ogra_: Thanks :)
<fattest> is there a patch to fix calls/sms for Samsung galaxy s2
<WebbyIT> I have a strange behavior with keys.onPressed, every time i press a button is evocated twice... Somone know from what might be causing this?
<nik90> WebbyIT: link to code?
<WebbyIT> nik90, calc app, you can try on trunk
<nik90> WebbyIT: ah ok
<WebbyIT> nik90, it's not a sdk bug, I tried on a 'clean' app
<nik90> WebbyIT: so when you press a button on the keyboard, it is invoked twice?
<MyNickisNicholas> Hello is there any one here that works on the reminders app or Ted Gould ?
<WebbyIT> nik90, right, just add console.log('Pressed') on line 186 of SimplePage.qml
 * nik90 is trying
<nik90> WebbyIT: I dont have that issue
<WebbyIT> nik90, ??? this is so weird!
<WebbyIT> mhh, let me check a couple of things...
<nik90> WebbyIT: by the way I noticed a minor issue. When you press on a key and that is received in one of the loops, you are supposed to set event.accepted = true to ensure that the event signal doesn't keep propogating
<nik90> WebbyIT: http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qml-keys.html
<nik90> look at the sample code
<MyNickisNicholas> mhall119: do you know of anyone that works on either the reminders app or the tracking-arch ?
<nik90> MyNickisNicholas: contact David planella, michael zanetti who work on the reminders app
<MyNickisNicholas> I am trying to make a click package and it is just not working.  the package builds and installs but is no where to be found on the phone
<MyNickisNicholas> thanks nik90
<nik90> MyNickisNicholas: also try on Monday, since no one is here on sunday
<MyNickisNicholas> nik90: been trying to do this for 2 days I got so sick of trying to build from command line that I made a --click option to my app to build the click
<MyNickisNicholas> it builds installs and what not but is no where to be found :(
<nik90> MyNickisNicholas: are you referring to the reminders app or your own app?
<MyNickisNicholas> my own app but I uses the "flow" of the reminders app to make the C++ to build the package
<nik90> MyNickisNicholas: ah
<MyNickisNicholas> aka copy the folders and what not and calling qprocess to call click build <myInstallDir>
<nik90> MyNickisNicholas: If I remember correctly, they have a script which builds the package and then pushes it to the phone
<MyNickisNicholas> yeah that is what I used there is a function in there to build it on the phone.  that is great but doe no good for me as end users can not do that
<MyNickisNicholas> because they can not use apt and also because.  there is no qmake or anything like that installed
<nik90> MyNickisNicholas: Since your question is specific to building that click package, contact mzanetti (michael zanetti) who created that script
<MyNickisNicholas> ping mzanetti
<nik90> MyNickisNicholas: but why would your users want to build a script? Won't you be distributing through the app store?
<MyNickisNicholas> mzanetti: I dont know if you remember me I gave you zeroconf
<nik90> I meant build a click package?
<MyNickisNicholas> correct but I can not test my click because it is not working :( that is my full issue
<WebbyIT> nik90, thanks
<WebbyIT> nik90, YEAH, you saved my day: I addded a if/else on keysOnpressed and this caused the wrong behavior,
<WebbyIT> nik90, I added event.accepted = true and now it's all ok :-)
<WebbyIT> Thanks!
<MyNickisNicholas> example: i take all my apparmor and desktop and plugins and qml files and copy them to a folder in my build dir called Install  I then  click build install  and it builds the click but once I install it installs to /opt/mypackageName    but it is not in the scopes of Unity8
<nik90> WebbyIT: u r welcome :)
<nik90> MyNickisNicholas: ok
<MyNickisNicholas> adb push <myclick> /home/phablet/   ;   adb shell  ; su - phablet ; sudo click install  <my click>
<nik90> makes snese
<nik90> sense*
<MyNickisNicholas> everything goes to opt but never shows up in the dang unity8 scopes
<ogra_> MyNickisNicholas, you cant use "click install" like that ...
<MyNickisNicholas> I have tried on 13.10 and 14.04 and built in chroot and it builds (debian package )
<MyNickisNicholas> ogra_: Oo
<MyNickisNicholas> pk-con ?
<MyNickisNicholas> ogra_: how do I install a click on the phone ?
<MyNickisNicholas> thank
<ogra_> also use "sudo -i phablet -i " su has a different env than sudo
<ogra_> pkcon install-local /path/to/*.click
<MyNickisNicholas> ogra_: I should just use root ?
<ogra_> no
<MyNickisNicholas> phablet user ?
<ogra_> click packages needs to be installed by the user
<ogra_> yeah
<MyNickisNicholas> cool
<ogra_> as i said: sudo -u phabelt -i
<MyNickisNicholas> I will try right now
<ogra_> *phablet
<ogra_> and then pkcon install-local ...
<MyNickisNicholas> yeah I missed that sorry ogra_
<MyNickisNicholas> ogra_: what is the outline(file stucture)  for a click n=know where I can get examples ?  like what should it look like under /opt/click/<myapp>   I am wondering if I hould build my click package from a chrooted debian package that I exstract or if I should just use the source code.
<ogra_> uh, dunno, there is a wikipage somewhere on the ubuntu wiki
<MyNickisNicholas> example: should I build the [package via chroot and sbuilder -> take deb package exstract it and use them files. Or should I just use what is in my build dir
<ogra_> there is some way to cross compile click packages, but dont ask me how
 * ogra_ has never packaged anything that needed compiling ... only webapps and some QML ones 
<MyNickisNicholas> ogra_: yeah cross compilation works great with cmake and sbuilder/chroot
<ogra_> no, i mean via click
<ogra_> there is some magic you can cand to the click build command
<ogra_> s/canh/hand/
<ogra_> (something with "click chroot")
<MyNickisNicholas> ogra_: IT WORKED !!!!!
<MyNickisNicholas> lets see if it launchs
<MyNickisNicholas> ogra_: gets to be 1st alpha tester for my app ?    ......
<MyNickisNicholas> it does not launch the app correctly but at least I am getting somewhere lol
<MyNickisNicholas> ogra_: thanks again and also thanks again for hanging out with me in Copenhagen smoking "ciggs" and   talking to me about Ubuntu and debian there
<wphate> hello
<popey> Hm. Rotation seems broken in 124 on mako
 * popey wonders what that's a bug in
<popey> bug 1268372
<ubot5> bug 1268372 in mir (Ubuntu) "Rotation broken in #124 on mako" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1268372
<daker> popey: i remember mhall119 saying that
<mhall119> daker: it was broken on some earlier version, I have r121 on my phone right now and it works
<mhall119> still broken on grouper afaik
<popey> mhall119: do you know if it's possible / easy to flash back to previous version with system-image-cli? I can do it with phablet-flash..
#ubuntu-touch 2015-01-05
<Mirv> mardy: sorry, my vacation bug filing was poor. I updated the bug with link to the build logs. it was using the latest shotwell, so my (unwritten) assumption was that something has changed since the last shotwell upload in early November that now causes a rebuild to fail.
<gcollura> bzoltan_, ping
<bzoltan_> gcollura:  hello, shoot ... what can I do for you?
<gcollura> bzoltan_, hello o/ about the MP on ubuntu-ui-toolkit, can I just resubmit the proposal with my branch, or should I create a new branch with the changes (since it's based on trunk and not staging)?
<bzoltan_> gcollura:  this time the staging is very fresh so, the delta is almost zero.. I would just retarget the MR
<gcollura> bzoltan_, ok thank you :)
<gcollura> bzoltan_, done https://code.launchpad.net/~gcollura/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/fix-1341814-and-1400297/+merge/245552
<bzoltan_> gcollura: cool, let's see what Jenkins says about it and then I will take care of the rest :)
<gcollura> bzoltan_, ok thanks again :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, happy new year, and happy Bird Day! :-D
<mandel> alecu, mardy yes, I can create a qml plugin for uploads, we just need to add the bug, adding to the backlog and will be done
<mardy> mandel: cool! Do you want me to file a bug?
<mandel> mardy, please do and I'll try to add it to the next sprint of my team
<mardy> mandel: done, bug 1407672
<ubot5> bug 1407672 in ubuntu-download-manager "Upload API" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1407672
<mandel> mardy, great, in time for a new sprint! I'll do my best
<sander^work> Where is the list of whats phones are supported?
<lotuspsychje> !devices
<ubot5> You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<lotuspsychje> sander^work: wich device do you have mate?
<sander^work> Samsung s5
<ogra_> jhodapp, yo ... i have a TV sat receiver that provides IP streaming to the LAN ... by offering one .m3u8 stream per station (seemingly an apple streaming format), is there a way to make that work on mediaplayer-app/media-hub ? (works fine on desktop with vlc and mplayer) ?
<lotuspsychje> sander^work: most capable devices are the nexus ones
<sander^work> lotuspsychje, I see the google spreadsheet with nexus status.. what dos WIP means?
<sander^work> does*
<josepht> Work In Progress
<jhodapp> ogra_, in theory yes, I believe there's HTTP Live Streaming plugins for gstreamer now. I wrote player support for that at my last job for GStreamer, but wasn't allowed to upstream it
<ogra_> well, i get a black screen when i hand over such a url to mediaplayer-app ... and dont see any errors in any logs
<jgdx> mpt, hey, hny! How's progress in bug 1379850 ? Need anything?
<ubot5> bug 1379850 in Ubuntu UX "[system-settings] should allow switching 2nd SIM to 3G data" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1379850
<jhodapp> ogra_, yeah you won't get any errors in the logs
<jhodapp> ogra_, I wouldn't expect it to work out of the box
<ogra_> hmm, k
<jhodapp> ogra_, can you file a bug?
<ogra_> i wonder if i could put mplayer into my click and use -vo sdl :)
<jhodapp> ogra_, I'll make it a wishlist priority
<ogra_> cool, thanks ...
<lotuspsychje> vlc for touch would be nice
<jhodapp> ogra_, are you joining our meeting btw?
<ogra_> jhodapp, next week perhaps :P
<jhodapp> ogra_, oh are you still on vacation?
 * ogra_ is on vacation til the 11th
<jhodapp> oh nice, well enjoy then! :)
<ogra_> yup
<ogra_> jhodapp, bug 1407693
<ubot5> bug 1407693 in Media Hub "media-hub should allow streaming of .m3u8 (apple streaming format) streams" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1407693
<jhodapp> thanks ogra_
<davmor2> ogra_: happy new year
<ogra_> davmor2, same to you !
<ogra_> (and everyone else in here indeed)
<jgdx> Elleo, hi, cutespotify stops playing after screen is locked. Known bug? (vivid@r58)
<jgdx> this is unlike the music player app
<ogra_> jgdx, known limitation for apps not using media-hub
<Elleo> jgdx: yeah, unfortunately due to the way libspotify works it isn't possible to hand music over to the media-hub to play in the background
<jgdx> ogra_, Elleo, thanks.
<rickspencer3> I'm trying to reflash my nexus 7
<rickspencer3> it says ... "Expecting the device to be in the bootloader... waiting
<rickspencer3> " but I it looks clear that the device is in the bootloader :/
<davmor2> rickspencer3: how did you get to bootloader?
<rickspencer3> davmor2, I held volume down and power until the bootloader screen appeared
<jgdx> Elleo, any known workarounds? Spotify accounts for 50% of my smartphone usage. :) And thanks for the app btw, rocks
<davmor2> rickspencer3: was it connected to the usb lead before or after the power switch and vol down hold?  I found that sometimes it didn't register correctly if I connected it after I was in bootloader
<rickspencer3> davmor2, yeah, I tried it both ways
<Elleo> jgdx: you can switch suspend off in the power settings; I'm thinking of maybe making a sort of fake lockscreen that prevents you accidentally pressing buttons, that way you can still have it in a pocket or something with the device powered on
<rickspencer3> this command should work, right?
<rickspencer3> ubuntu-device-flash --bootstrap --channel=devel-proposed
<rickspencer3> lool, ^
<Elleo> jgdx: its far from ideal though
<ogra_> rickspencer3, try appending "--device flo"
<rickspencer3> ogra_, that did it :)
<lool> rickspencer3: you want touch
<lool> ubuntu-device-flash touch --device flo --channel=devel-proposed
<ogra_> i think u-d-f assumes touch if you dont add it
<lool> could be
<rickspencer3> lool, ogra_ yeah, the cli said it assumed touch
<rickspencer3> for now
<rickspencer3> it's deprecated, so lool is right, should probably document "touch" from now on
<jgdx> Elleo, fake lockscreen would work.
<lool> device detection only works when adb is up on the device side; when booted to bootloader, we dont detect the device name
<rickspencer3> gotcha
<ogra_> we do, but not on all devices
<rickspencer3> that makes sense
<rickspencer3> abd wasn't working anyway
<rickspencer3> that's one of the reasons I am reflashing :)
<Elleo> jgdx: yeah, I'll add it next time I have a bit of free time to do some non-work dev :)
<sergiusens_> lool: rickspencer3 device should be detected from the bootloader; just not from recovery
<rickspencer3> sergiusens_, oh, it was def. on bootloader and not recovery :/
<rickspencer3> like I say, I couldn't make adb work on it anyway, so I am reflashing with --bootstrap
<sergiusens_> rickspencer3: ah, but the bootloader is supposed to be used with fastboot, not adb
<rickspencer3> sergiusens_, sorry, I wasn't clear
<sander^work> Is it possible to vnc from ubuntu phone to an android phone?
<rickspencer3> adb was not working when I had Ubuntu running
<sergiusens_> rickspencer3: ah, interesting; I wonder if the udev rules aren't working correctly (or the session isn't 'seat')
<sergiusens_> s/isn't/wasn't/
<sander^work> josepht, ?
<josepht> sander^work: under development, not yet finished, etc.
<sander^work> But I assume that's possible on the android side?
<rickspencer3> sergiusens_, so, my flashing seems to be stuck on /home/rick/.cache/ubuntuimages/pool/device-b05d38dce25d9caa1075a2d56abceaf532987d2ef0756a2c2a7438bf828d2f17.tar.xz
<rickspencer3> should it take 30+ minutes for that step?
<jgdx> Elleo, btw, could you do a USS code review? https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/ubuntu-system-settings/about-bad-mac-fix-1399723/+merge/243996
<Elleo> jgdx: I'm probably not the best person for that, since I've never touched system settings before; if you're desperate for someone I will though :)
<jgdx> Elleo, in Ken's absence, I am desperate. Also, my evil plan requires you to gain experience with USS so that you can do future reviews :p
<Elleo> heh
<Elleo> okay, I'll take a look as soon as I've finished sorting this keyboard bug :)
<jgdx> Elleo, supr! :D
<sander^work> Where can I see a list of apps?
<popey> aquarius: you were talking of an app store someone has made, on G+, got a url?
<popey> (well, web frontend)
<Elleo> popey: probably this? http://appstore.bhdouglass.com/#/apps
<popey> ooh!
<popey> not seen that, yes, that's it
<Elleo> I think it must only update infrequently since podbird isn't listed there at the moment, but cachemere is
<aquarius> popey, that's the one, that Elleo linked to
<aquarius> it's really quite good, I think
<aquarius> Elleo, you might wanna poke bhdouglass about that, then
<sergiusens_> rickspencer3: it shouldn't, no
<rickspencer3> hmmmm
<rickspencer3> sergiusens_, I used this command when the device was in bootloader mode:
<rickspencer3> ubuntu-device-flash --bootstrap --channel=devel-proposed --device flo
<popey> aquarius: agreed
<sergiusens_> rickspencer3: can you 'adb shell cat /tmp/recovery.log|pastebinit'
<aquarius> popey, I am hoping that beuno/ralsina's team release the push notification/client part of their stuff without blocking on having the web front end done, so that third-party app stores such as that can use it
<rickspencer3> sergiusens_, error: device not found
<rickspencer3>  :(
<sergiusens_> rickspencer3: hmm, maybe your usb is busted; can you adb kill-server
<sergiusens_> if that doesn't work, a reboot should do it (to restart the usb chipset)
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> sergiusens, you think I should try a different cable?
<sergiusens> rickspencer3: the usb chipset on your host might need rebooting; adb kill-server should be my first try as fastboot seemed to work fine
<rickspencer3> sergiusens, yeah, so adb shell just won't see this tablet, at least not from this laptop
<rickspencer3> I'll try tomorrow from a different laptop
<sergiusens> rickspencer3: is it an old ubunutu? adb kill-server && sudo adb devices
<rickspencer3> sergiusens, the host is 14.10
<rickspencer3> yeah, it's just not there
<lool> rickspencer3: some flaky USB cables sometimes cause this, perhaps try another one?
<rickspencer3> thanks lool, I've tried all I have hear
<rickspencer3> thanks lool, I've tried all I have here
<rickspencer3> I'll try a different one tomorrow
<rickspencer3> at least adb shell works on my phone :)
<Elleo> jgdx: I'm guessing those couple of failing tests on that MR are a known flakyness? (can't see how they could be related to your changes)
<jgdx> Elleo, correct
<Elleo> jgdx: okay, in that case will approve now :)
<jgdx> Elleo, thank you:)
<Elleo> you're welcome
<om26er> salem_, Hi!
<jgdx> seb128, could you top approve https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/ubuntu-system-settings/about-bad-mac-fix-1399723/+merge/243996 ?
<seb128> jgdx, hey, happy new year! (done)
<jgdx> seb128, happy new year :) Thanks!
<salem_> om26er, hello
<jgdx> Wellark, ping
<om26er> salem_, I saw multiple crashes during the holidays, one of them is related to the telephony-service, can you see if the logs here are useful https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/3c447394-8d36-11e4-9a32-fa163e22e467
<salem_> om26er, "Sorry, you are not a member of a group that is allowed to see the data from error reports. Please fill out this form to request access."
<om26er> salem_, perhaps login with SSO
<aquarius> I don't seem to be able to edit bookmarks in the browser app. Is that because it's not implemented yet, or because I can't work out how to do it? (is this an alexabreu question? osomon?)
<salem_> om26er, I am already logged in
<daker> aquarius: what do you mean by edit ?
<aquarius> daker, change the URL or name of a bookmark. Specifically, so I can use a bookmarklet, although I think that's been carefully made impossible because bookmarks only show up on the new tab screen :(
<lool> mandel: hey, around?
<mandel> lool, happy new year!
<lool> mandel: happy new year to you too!
<mandel> lool, bonne anne or something like that?
<lool> mandel: I have this issue seemingly with download manager that I thought you could help me debug
<mandel> lool, and yes, I'm around
<mandel> lool, sure, shoot
<lool> mandel: browser works, but when I search for apps in store, or when I search for updates, it times out
<lool> I've just reflashed without bootstraping to get rid of any local files that could get in the way
<lool> the logs under /home/phablet/.cache/ubuntu-download-manager are all super old
<mandel> lool, hmm is that downloading the apps or browsing?
<lool> mandel: just searching
<mandel> lool, I mean, the download is started and then we do timeout, correct?
<lool> no
<daker> aquarius: i think it's not implemented yet, it's in the spec https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Qrd4Flfs3EH-fI79IfrYgLdAx2nce-L7ve8NKLCX324/edit#slide=id.g2a8e607ab_067
<mandel> lool, if it is just search, as in browsing in the scope you will have to ping alecu
<lool> mandel: it affects system-image too though
<aquarius> daker, ah, but I can't open a bookmark in the tab I'm currently in, with that design, which means: no bookmarklets :(
<mandel> lool, hmmm wait, system updates are not download, or checking of the update times out?
<lool> mandel: checking the updates times out
<daker> aquarius: true, maybe file a bug about this ?
<mandel> lool, hmmm ok, is out udm for sure, I wonder, can you get the system-image logs, maybe the issue is that the server really is taking to long
<lool> another phoen works fine on another channel
<mandel> lool, then it might be an issue with the channel, right?
<lool> [systemimage] Jan 05 18:37:45 2015 (2394) [0xb612f390] Requesting group download
<lool> [systemimage] Jan 05 18:37:45 2015 (2394) Already up-to-date
<lool> (skipping some lines)
<mandel> lool, weird, so it is requesting the download, and then it states that is up-to date... barry any ideas?
<lool> mandel: I guess it is working frmo the d-m side, I just dont know why the UI is stuck updating
<lool> mandel: and since I was getting similar timeouts with app search, I suspected some common component
<lool> maybe I'm just unlucky and two things are broken
<mandel> lool, oh, I know the issue :)
<mandel> lool, the online accounts are misbehaving and the UI or the scope do not deal with it correctly
<mandel> lool, I recommend you to remove the u1 credentials and readd them and try again
<lool> so that's a likely explanation indeed
<mandel> lool, if the online accounts goes nuts the ui ignores the fact and gets in that ugly loop
<lool> mandel: do you know if it breaks system update?
<mandel> lool, no, it does not, but the UI is very stupid and gets stuck there do to a query to the click store to check for updates of your apps
<mandel> lool, so, system updates is happy but since the click parts is not, you get that state
<lool> ok, as long as it's not breaking system updates I'm not too worried
<mandel> lool, no, system updates are not using online accounts at all
<aquarius> daker, https://bugs.launchpad.net/webbrowser-app/+bug/1407746 filed
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1407746 in webbrowser-app "No way to use a bookmarklet (bookmarked javascript: link)" [Undecided,New]
<mandel> mardy, what was the bug number for what lool is experiencing? (we did talk about this just before the holidays)
<mandel> alecu, you also know about this ^, right?
<aquarius> my hopes are not high. I've been banging on about bookmarklets being useful to do things like add the Readability service to the Ubuntu browser for two years :(
<lool> mandel: yeah, updates dont time out anymore; one down
<lool> search doesn't work tough
<lool> but I might have to restart to kill the scope or something
<mandel> lool, probably
<alecu> lool: please try "restart scope-registry"
<lool> alecu: sorry have rebooted already
<alecu> no problem, it's the same effect
<lool> alecu: is this something recurring, or a one off that we have shaken already?
<alecu> mandel: I don't recall discussing this before the shutdown... Let's ask dobey too.
<mandel> alecu, I talked about this with mardy, sorry if it sounded otherwise
<mandel> alecu, someone told me that udm was broken and the issue was this
<alecu> mandel: did you find out what kind of error online accounts is returning in this case?
<alecu> or is it just crashing?
<mandel> alecu, lt me grep my logs, mardy did give me a bug report (will take a few mins)
<dobey> que?
<alecu> lool: I don't recall experiencing this before... mandel's workaround (deleting the account and recreating it) should never be needed; some bit of our code should be handling this problem instead.
<alecu> dobey: 14:42 <mandel> the online accounts are misbehaving and the UI or the scope do not deal with it correctly
<dobey> it depends on what the problem is
<lool> alecu: agreed
<dobey> misbehaving how?
<lool> dobey: so I was seeing time outs when searching for apps in the store and when searching for software updates; this was the end-user symptom; I didn't find any clue in the lgos I've checked -- but perhaps these werent the right ones -- and removed and recreated the account, which fixed the issue
<dobey> well timeouts != invalid credentials
<mandel> alecu, dobey, lool I was pointed to this bug => https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts/+bug/1376445
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1376445 in Online Accounts setup for Ubuntu Touch "Addition of signon-apparmor-extension causes token lookup problems" [High,In progress]
<dobey> just browsing/searching in the store doesn't use the account
<dobey> the account is used to query what apps you've purchased.
<mandel> dobey, that is why the updates query gets stuck, the browsing is something I have no idea :-/
<alecu> dobey: but we show that when browsing/searching
<dobey> mandel: well, that bug was fixed
<alecu> dobey: we show if the app was purchased when browsing
<dobey> alecu: but it failing doesn't prevent the search from working
<dobey> if you have invalid credentials, then already purchased apps will simply appear as not having been purchased
<dobey> if a timeout is happening, then there is a network problem, not an authentication problem
<mandel> lool, I leave you with dobey and alecu they know waaaaay more about the (possible) issue, at least you can do the updates :)
<lool> so just to be clear, I haven't touched my U1 credentials in any way and removing / readding the account fixed this, so clearly something was wrong with their storage or with the token on the server side
<lool> mandel: thanks for pointing me
<alecu> dobey: the timeout might have to do with the online accounts library crashing because the storage of the credentials is messed up
<dobey> lool: well, unfortunately it's hard to say what was wrong exactly. can you e-mail me your ~/.cache/upstart/scope-registry.log perhaps and i can see if there's something in it?
<lool> that's possible; the only crashes in /var/crash was mtp which is unrelated
<dobey> alecu: shouldn't. if it crashes, dbus should send the noresponse signal and we'd act like there were no credentials
<dobey> alecu: i'd rather not speculate on what happened, when we have no idea what happened :)
<lool> dobey: sent
<lool> dobey: let me know if you need more of them
<dobey> ok
<dobey> 2015-01-05 18:34:27,780 - CRITICAL - Error: "Client has insuficient permissions to access the service.Method:getAuthSessionObjectPath"
<dobey> mardy: ^^ do you know why that sometimes happens?
<dobey> it seems signond sometimes gets incorrect permissions or something?
<dobey> i guess mardy alreayd left though
<mardy> dobey: I'm EOD already, yes -- but if you have a syslog handy I could have a look at it
<mardy> dobey: with debugging turned on in /etc/signond.conf
<dobey> mardy: oh, this is from lool's phone
<dobey> mardy: and it seems that simply deleting the u1 account and then adding it back, makes the problem go away, when this happens :-/
<dobey> mardy: i don't know if the syslog without debug info is useful, but he might still have it. maybe you can discuss with him in your morning tomorrow to see if any additional info can be had, since you're both in europe?
<AkivaAvraham> Which phones from bq and meizu have been announced/released officially with ubuntu
<Z3> Hi, I read first ubuntu phone from BQ appears next month. I would like to know if it will support "docking mode" (plugin to a tv, keyboard and mouse to have a regular pc)
<AkivaAvraham> Z3, I don't think so. I have not seen any demos of this quite yet.
 * AkivaAvraham could be wrong
<AkivaAvraham> nik90_, happy new year btw
<AkivaAvraham> erm
<AkivaAvraham> ignore that
<Z3> AkivaAvraham Happy new year :-) I understand, I hope this feature appears soon. Yhank you ! :)
<AkivaAvraham> z3 are you a developer?
<Z3> yes
<AkivaAvraham> Z3, Interested in developing apps for ubuntu Touch? These initial phones are largely targetted towards folks like you.
<AkivaAvraham> Z3, also come hang out at #ubuntu-app-devel - You'd likely receive a better answer there.
<Z3> AkivaAvraham I understand, thank you ! :)
<dobey> full convergence is not yet implemented/supported, no
<nhaines> dobey: is convergence ready now?
<dobey> nhaines: arewconvergedyet.com
<nhaines> dobey: how 'bout now?
 * nhaines hopes it gets shoved into 16.04.
<nhaines> I need to figure out bluez some times get get that working on the N5.  But I can't do anything with it on a PC, much less the phone.
<dobey> yeah i don't know what the issue with bt on the n5 is exactly
<nhaines> I would actually use Ubuntu as a daily driver then, but I have podcasts to listen to.  Also phone calls to make.
<dobey> i do use it now
<dobey> i haven't had any problems with calls, other than the occasional "i hear echo" comment maybe once or twice
<dobey> which is of course incredibly difficult to debug
<HopeCharging> Hello.  Can you tell me if Ubuntu Touch on Nexus7 allows for USB Host Charging while connected to another USB device (like a keyboard/mouse?)
<dobey> otg isn't supported at the moment, afaik
<nhaines> dobey: I need Bluetooth for when I'm driving.  :)
<HopeCharging> you mean OTG charging?
<dobey> nhaines: i need people not to bug me when i'm driving
<dobey> HopeCharging: i mean otg at all
<HopeCharging> oh, I was able to get the keyboard to work, but not charging and the keyboard
<HopeCharging> interesting
<nhaines> dobey: talking and driving is better than texting and driving.  :)  But I don't do either unless I can do it handsfree.
<dobey> oh, well maybe you got lucky, but my understanding is that otg is not yet well supported
<HopeCharging> ok, how bout this... is it possible to replace the android kernel?
<dobey> no
<HopeCharging> with something like ElementalX
<HopeCharging> ok
<nhaines> (So, you know, when someone comes up with a handsfree texting solution...  but I'm not in any real hurry.)
<HopeCharging> sounds like another app... hands free texting.
<HopeCharging> thanks ...
<HopeCharging> bye
<dobey> nhaines: i'd rather have a phone with tact
<dobey> (aka real keyboard buttons)
<dobey> oh well
<dobey> now if i could just get a 14.04 installer usb written correctly
<JoannisO> Hey! I want to develop for Ubuntu Touch but I only have one phone (Nexus 5) that can run it. Does anyone have enough experience with this port to give me advice? It's not an essential phone for me in a way that it (for example) can't ever crash to keep productivity up.. although it shouldn't constantly crash because I'd obviously like to develop for it.
<ahoneybun> JoannisO, you want advice about how good the port is?
<nhaines> JoannisO: root your phone and install MultiROM Manager.  You'll never have trouble with installing or uninstalling Ubuntu
<nhaines> And then it's just dual-boot.  :D
<ahoneybun> I've never dualbooted it
<JoannisO> ahoneybun: If someone knows how usable it is I'd prefer that, yes.
<JoannisO> nhaines: Doesn't this greatly increase the risk of a brick?
 * ahoneybun has never bricked a Nexus device
<nhaines> JoannisO: it greatly decreases it.
<nhaines> Aside from the fact that I don't think Nexus devices *can* be bricked.
<ahoneybun> I don't think so either
<ahoneybun> unless you flash something for a different device mayne
<ahoneybun> even then though
<nhaines> In any case, I've been running Ubuntu on my Nexus 5 all year, no worries.  I don't even know how to flash Ubuntu over Android.
<JoannisO> nhaines: Is there a tutorial for MutliROM Manager or is it as easy as can be? Obviously with a tutorial there's a minimal risk that I could mess it up.
<JoannisO> I'll probably just remove Android anyways.
<ahoneybun> nhaines, ubuntu-device-flash :)
<JoannisO> Just to get this straight; it's literally one command (ubuntu-device-flash with some options) to start the process? Because this sounds waay too easy.
<sergiusens> in general, for stable, just u-d-f --bootstrap for first timers
<nhaines> ahoneybun: for the Nexus 5?  :)
<nhaines> JoannisO: it's literally just one command to flash Android too.  :)
<nhaines> There aren't any installation options.  Any image must be tailored specifically for the exact device it will be installed on.
<ahoneybun> nhaines, same command for all devices I believe
<ahoneybun> nhaines, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices/
<nhaines> ahoneybun: that's only for supported devices, and the Nexus 5 isn't supported.
<nhaines> I'd be really surprised if you didn't have to point to the Nexus 5 server.
<JoannisO> Thanks for the info! It's all up and running now!
<JoannisO> ahoneybun: Do you have sound on your nexus 5?
<nhaines> JoannisO: congrats!
<nhaines> Sound should work.  Bluetooth doesn't.
#ubuntu-touch 2015-01-06
<Isotop7> is there any information why there are no new builds in rtm 14.09 proposed since 18 of december?
<cwayne> holidays
<Isotop7> aah...okay...didnt see that coming :D
<Isotop7> have a happy new year :)
<cwayne> you too :)
<c0nd0r> hi, I am trying to install ubuntu touch on a galaxy SGH 1337M
<c0nd0r> glaaxy s4
<c0nd0r> it is already rooted
<c0nd0r> does anybody know where I can find the coreect install files
<c0nd0r> apparantly, the galaxy s4 is a bit tricky with ubuntu touch
<sergiusens> c0nd0r: I don't think there is anyone actively working on an S4 port
<sergiusens> !devices
<ubot5> You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<c0nd0r> thank you
<dholbach> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hi
<mandel> ogra_, hey! happy new year
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Apple Tree Day! :-)
<mandel> JamesTait, appel tree?? wtf?
<mandel> JamesTait, where do you find all this weird days hehehehe
<JamesTait> mandel, https://www.daysoftheyear.com/days/apple-tree-day/
<JamesTait> mandel, it's the internet, there's *bound* to be a website for it. ;)
<ame_> can i install ubuntu on my android phone??
<ame_> am using moto E
<lotuspsychje> !devices
<ame_> moto E
<ubot5> You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<lool> so the partition layout on my mako changed since I reflashed it; now when booting into recovery, I have to mount /dev/block/platform/msm_sdcc.1/by-name/userdata /data; mount -o loop /data/system.img /system
<lool> is there a nicer way to do this?
<lool> also, I can't properly umount /data after doing this and I get some bionic warnings, which I dont understand -- why would bionic be affected by /data? -- any idea what's going on?
<lool> ogra_: I'm sure you've been through this already  :-)
<lool> (also, I've noticed a suspicious /datadata directory in the recovery)
<meinotherside> hi is possible to install Ubuntu Touch on Asus ME176C ? , Intel Bay Trail processor
<jgdx> !devices | meinotherside
<ubot5> meinotherside: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<meinotherside> thank you ubot5
<jgdx> seb128, hiya, is this a good version bump? https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas/other-vibrations/+merge/239734
<meinotherside> how do I compile Ubunt Touch for my Asus ME176C ? thanks
<meinotherside> how do I compile Ubunt Touch for my Asus ME176C ? thanks
<lotuspsychje> !devices | meinotherside
<meinotherside> My model of tablet not appear | lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> meinotherside: maybe try he XDA forums, someone might have a project for it?
<dobey> you will need to follow the porting guide
<dobey> to port ubuntu to a new device
<meinotherside> thank you lotuspsychje and dobey , I will try
<jgdx> tedg, ping
<tedg> jgdx, Just a sec, otp
<jgdx> kk
<tedg> jgdx, off-the-phone (otp?) ;-)  What's up?
<jgdx> tedg, :) Silo 02, it seemed to have been rejected by qa due to the silent mode issues (indicator and u-s-s not in sync)
<jgdx> tedg, wondering what to do next
<tedg> jgdx, Add this MR, take two Tylenol and call me in the morning. https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/indicator-sound/silent-mode-startup/+merge/241336
<jgdx> tedg, ack :)
<seb128> jgdx, hey, yeah, looks fine
<jgdx> seb128, thanks!
<lool> ricmm: heya, mind reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~lool/platform-api/dep-fix/+merge/245662 ?
<lool> should be trivial
<lool> ondra: hey, do you have binaries for the dbus location-service mp?
<ondra> lool nope, just trying to build fix from tvoss
<mhall119> seb128: did you want to join today's community team Q&A to talk about Ubuntu desktop and Unity 8?
<seb128> mhall119, when is that?
<mhall119> now
<mhall119> haven't started yet, but about to
<seb128> mhall119, sorry but no, in the middle of the weekly desktop team meeting
<mhall119> ok, next time then
<seb128> yeah if it's a different time
<dobey> cwayne1: untappd webapp uses the online-accounts credentials to log in, right? it's asking me to sign in again, but scope still seems to give authenticated data okâ¦
<seb128> our meeting is always in this slot
<cwayne1> dobey: yeap
<cwayne1> its a separate service file and everything
<cwayne1> so its possible to be signed into one but not the other
<dobey> cwayne1: but both are enabled in system-settings. but the webapp just shows the logged out web page asking me to sign up or sign in.
<cwayne1> oh, hm, thats weird
<dobey> yeah, i tried to use it last night at the pub, but got that page
<cwayne1> damn, ill try and work out a fix
<cwayne1> but really i'd just like to be able to check in from the scope :P
<dobey> i'd rather use the app :)
<dobey> and i don't think it's possible to provide good ux for things like checkins, in scopes
<cwayne1> well it seems it would map pretty well to the ratings input widget
<dobey> if you only want to allow whole-number ratings. but location and attaching pictures requires a bit more complexity than a ratings widget
<cwayne1> fair point
<cwayne1> regardless i'll check and see if i can reproduce/fix
<seb128> tedg, hey, happy new year
<seb128> tedg, do you know if anyone is working on making u-a-l works with systemd as a cgroup manager?
<seb128> tedg, bug #1400394
<ubot5> bug 1400394 in ubuntu-app-launch (Ubuntu) "Unity8 fails to start applications under systemd init (cgmanager issue?)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1400394
<justCarakas> QUESTION: will there be increased effords to bring populair apps to the phone when they are available for sale ?
<tedg> seb128, I don't think so, I was planning to port it to systemd when the session stuff was ready, but I didn't realize it was going to replace cgmanager as well.
<seb128> tedg, that's an issue we need to sort this cycle...
<tedg> seb128, When you mean issue, do you mean porting UAL or deciding whether systemd will replace cgmanager?
<seb128> tedg, having ual work with systemd as pid1
<seb128> so unity8-desktop can start things
<tedg> K, that should be too hard. Do we expect the u8-desktop to run systemd for session management as well?
<tedg> shouldn't be too hard.
<tedg> The session switch is going to be tricker just in that we need to get all the services unit files as well.
<tedg> (not impossible, but work)
<Nick___> Anyone experience poor mic quality with nexus 4?
<dobey> justCarakas: most popular apps on ios/android are proprietary, and not so simple to port. it will be up to the developers of those apps whether to port them. but we certainly try to encourage porting of apps, even now
<pitti> Saviq: oh cool, the unity8 tests succeeded now, thanks for re-running
<Saviq> pitti, yup, no worries, will investigate the failure, too
<bubbasaures> Norrin, The only thing eol or dead in your words are the earlier ubuntu with a desktop images for the supported phones and nexus.
<Norrin> bubbasaures, is that what this is? http://www.ubuntu.com/phone
<bubbasaures> Norrin, That is a web page yes with an image, honestly not really giving the details needed, like the limited phones or tablets..etc used and that it is still being worked on is all.
<bubbasaures> Norrin, I would ask the channel though they know more in general than me.
<Norrin> gotcha
<Norrin> trying to find out if "ubuntu for phone" and "ubuntu touch" are 2 different things.  and if one is being abandoned for the other
<bubbasaures> Norrin, The original idea was a phone that ran touch and could run as a regular ubuntu release when plugged in to a monitor or some set up, still in the mix I think just getting the company to release this under their funding and hardware is the issue now.
<bubbasaures> not the company, like a phone OEM
<bubbasaures> I waiting for that setup I like the idea
<Norrin> waiting for a phone oem to ship with it?
<Norrin> why... linux has never depended on that....
<Norrin> just provide hardware support and installation tools to users
<bubbasaures> Norrin, Canonical ran a donation program to get funding, it failed so it is outside release as far as the unit or a download install as of now, the dual setup I'm not sure where this is at.
<popey> Norrin: we're not "waiting for a phone oem" - we're working _with_ phone OEMs.
<bubbasaures> should get here sometime is my guess
<popey> next month
<Norrin> popey, I see.  is this something separate? http://www.ubuntu.com/phone
<popey> Norrin: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/12/bq-ubuntu-phone-launches-in-europe-this-february
<Norrin> I'm guessing it's the same project...
<popey> it is
<Norrin> i'm hoping the app permission system is more ios-like and less android-like
<popey> how so?
<popey> You can already try it on a Nexus 4 â»
<popey> and yes, it's not like Android, you don't get smacked in the face when you install apps
<Norrin> yayy! ^
<Norrin> indeed.  not granted all or nothing permissions at install.  and install enabling & disabling permissions piecemeal for each all
<Norrin> for each app*
<popey> yes
<Norrin> i have a nexus 5...
<popey> so as the camera needs location, it asks for it
<Norrin> and want the 6
<Norrin> cool.  securely sandboxed?
<popey> yes
<popey> one app can't eat another apps data
<popey> or see it
<Norrin> or any data that it doesn't own lol (hopefully)
<popey> indeed
<Norrin> that's what i'm looking for!  sounds great
<Norrin> so ubuntu.com mentions #ubuntu-phone.   how'd this channel end up forked?
<popey> Norrin: long story, not interesting â»
<popey> Norrin: #ubuntu-phone should redirect here
<Norrin> it doesnt
<popey> it used to... let me see
<Norrin> i'm in there now
<popey> I'll fix it
<Norrin> i'm excited! android backgrounding with better permissions and security....
<Norrin> i'm assuming it's an linux backgrounding model... might be wrong
<popey_> \o/
<ibuntu> Hello, I have Ubuntu Touch installed on a Nexus 4. It was working fine for 2 months. About 8 days ago I restarted my phone and can no longer connect to my cellular network. It says denied in my network status indicator instead of saying WIND Home as it normally would.
<ibuntu> I am in Toronto using WIND Mobile. My mom is on Fido and if I swap my SIM card out with hers, Ubuntu can connect to her network. My sim card works in other phones. My house-mate uses koodo and his sim card gives the same denied status as mine
<dobey> Norrin: my understanding is that it will be like ios
<ibuntu> koodo, wind and some other smaller companies all use a similar range of frequencies for their networks while rogers/fido/bell/etc. use a different frequency range
<dobey> ibuntu: have you contacted your provider and asked if they have blocked your phone's IMEI for some reason?
<ibuntu> If my phone's imei was blocked, wouldn't I have trouble connecting with other phones?
<dobey> ibuntu: not if their IMEIs aren't blocked
<Norrin> dobey, no way to enable prolonged background tasks?
<dobey> Norrin: not currently, but once it's fully implemented it should be about the same model as iOS uses
<Norrin> popey, thanks for fixing that
<Norrin> yikes
<ibuntu> dobey: why would my house-mates sim card on a different network carrier also be denied?
<dobey> Norrin: apps on iOS can register to be waked for a period of time to run in the background
<dobey> ibuntu: i don't know, maybe it's locked to their phone's IMEI?
<Norrin> dobey, i know.... but persistent connections need to stay running
<Norrin> dobey, so backgrounding was deliberately disabled?
<ibuntu> my house-mates sim card works in 3 other android phones in the house, as does my sim card
<dobey> Norrin: persistent? persistent network connections on a cell phone are a generally bad idea
<Norrin> yes.  but what if you need one
<Norrin> should be able to enable if you want
<dobey> Norrin: bring it up on the mailing list, i guess?
<Norrin> you might be on wifi.  you might need a temporary server.
<Norrin> or want real-time updates from a server
<dobey> Norrin: you might lose connectivity arbitrarily
<Norrin> try.  but app can retry (if it is allowed to run....)
<Norrin> true*. but app can. . . .
<sergiusens> Norrin: well push notifications can get you close enough to real time as you can get
<dobey> Norrin: what you want, and what you get may not be the same thing. your app should support dropped connections and resuming
<Norrin> dobey, yes. but can only do that if it is allowed to run...
<dobey> the main thing i want a persistent connection for, is local bluetooth streaming of data
<Norrin> 1) irc 2) prolonged downloads which aren't http
<dobey> 1) cloud services exist which preserve state
<Norrin> apple says to use nsurlsession as if all network traffic is http
<dobey> 2) the app should probably be foreground for anything important
<Norrin> dobey, that #2 doesn't allow for multi-tasking.  or conserving battery by during the screen off
<ibuntu> dobey: is it conceivable that the issue could be a blocked imei if my WIND sim and my house-mates Koodo sim work in 3 different android phones, but not in Ubuntu. And my mom's fido sim works in all 4 phones? (I am on hold with my network carrier to see if they have blocked my imei)
<Norrin> by requiring cloud services, you require a developer to not only be a systems developer.  now he has to write a web-app also
<dobey> do you have a valid, current use case, where one would need to download a large amount of data to a phone, that isn't http, and isn't streaming music or movies?
<Norrin> dobey, how about a linux image over bittorrent.  or anything or a work ftp?
<Norrin> even http downloads.  i'm assuming the OS doesn't support that right now either.  considering it's need a system service which schedules the http downloads on the apps' behave, seeing apps aren't allowed to run.
<Norrin> i guess that enhancement is planned, but it is unnecessary is the app is simply allowed to run
<Norrin> unnecessary if* that app is . . .
<dobey> eh, i disagree
<dobey> and HTTP has resume capability
<dobey> i can install mosh+ssh on my phone, and ssh will work fine and resume properly and i'll have irc under screen running on my server
<Norrin> so no system service scheduler yet.  app gets killed. resume is necessary and therefore won't finish itself.  you can't start a download, go do something else, come back and expect it to be finished.  you have to resume it and make sure the app doesn't background for the download to finish
<dobey> right now, yes
<dobey> like i said, background processing is not yet implemented/supported for apps
<sergiusens> Norrin: http[s] downloads are supported
<sergiusens> torrenting on a phone is a very specific use case
<dobey> and my understanding, is that once all of that is fully implemented, it should be very similar to how iOS works
<dobey> and yes, HTTP downloads will work fine currently. use the ubuntu-download-manager API
<Norrin> imo the future is these devices.  it is a computer.  why is it fair to cripple it
<dobey> it might work for ftp too
<sergiusens> jhodapp: hey, did you test Elleo's podcasting app?
<dobey> why is it a computer?
<dobey> it is a phone, not a computer
<jhodapp> sergiusens, no I didn't
<sergiusens> jhodapp: it's rather nice, check it out :-)
<Norrin> i use a touch device whenever possible.  i use a traditional computer when i'm forced to, because a mobile OS has been crippled to where it isn't capable of something something a computer can
<jhodapp> sergiusens, what's it called?
<sergiusens> jhodapp: podbird
<Norrin> dobey, actually with that plan, it'll be more similar to windows phone
<dobey> no it won't
<Norrin> same backgrounding mobile.  secure sandboxing. configuring permissions.  actually all 3 have those characteristics....
<dobey> the goal is for it to be like iOS but better, for background processing
<Norrin> better how? its the same plan...
<Norrin> same backgrounding model*
<dobey> anyway, if you care about it enough to help make it better, then start a thread on the mailing list about it and get involved
<dobey> i don't know all the specifics
<Norrin> yeah i'll see
<Norrin> at least that's an option with this project
<jhodapp> sergiusens, nice, never heard of it
<jhodapp> sergiusens, thanks for the tip man
<ibuntu> dobey: how can I find my imei of my nexus 4? my carrier is asking. I tried *#06# but it just says IMEI and doesn't give a number
<dobey> ibuntu: under "About this Phone" in System Settings app
<Norrin> dobey, i say it's a computer because look at desktop laptop sales.  theyve been plummeting.  people are using celll phones / tablets as computers now instead.  it's a super modern operating system.  supports users, multi-tasking, file management, everything an OS does.  they stopped being only phones when windows ce came out
<dobey> ugh, file management
<Norrin> ram, multi-core processors, dedicated gpus.... motion processors... on and on
<Norrin> no reason to cripple what it is capable of
<dobey> you have a very frustrating attitude about phones as computers :-/
<ibuntu> dobey: thank you, I have just confirmed with my network carrier that the IMEI is not blocked
<beuno> Norrin, battery is the reason to have lifecycles
<beuno> they barely get you to the end of the day with the current limitations
<beuno> if you let apps go wild they'll last an hour
<dobey> my laptop has longer battery life
<beuno> and blame the phone OS
<dobey> and a smaller profile
<Norrin> beuno, correct.  app management should be easy
 * dobey misses having phones that actually fit in his pocket
<dobey> lol, "easy"
<Norrin> i dont believe that it is easy with android.  they do run wild
<dobey> if it was easy, it'd be done already :)
<Norrin> i'm looking for a more controllable system of what android as, for backgrounding
<ibuntu> any ideas how I can get my ubuntu phone conntect to my mobile network again?
<beuno> Norrin, that's good, so are we!
<dobey> ibuntu: your phone only has ubuntu? you are not using multirom to dual boot, right?
<ibuntu> someone at xda developers forums suggested rm /var/lib/urfkilll/saved-states but that didn't work either
<ibuntu> and that is correct, it has only ubuntu
<Norrin> dobey, ios has a background task switch for each app.  and background network usage. that's pretty much all that's needed.
<ibuntu> I did not dual boot as I had no interest in using android
<Norrin> the problem is, on ios, when enabled, those abilities are still extremely crippled
<dobey> Norrin: ios has a pretty complex system for how background tasks actually work
<Norrin> dobey, i know
<dobey> that is not all that's needed.
<dobey> that's what *you* want
<Norrin> 1) configurable / controlable 2) capable
<dobey> ibuntu: ok. i'm not sure what denied means exactly then. it's not a sim lock problem, as it would say locked and give you a button to unlock it in that case. i don't know what else to tell you :-/
<Norrin> "dobey	misses having phones that actually fit in his pocket" - I see that's where we differ lol
<Norrin> i'm *truly* trying to migrate off traditional computers.
<Norrin> as soon as these aren't crippled.... trad computers will be the special purpose devices
<dobey> at some point you're just going to tend up with a laptop that has a gsm radio in it
<ibuntu> dobey: thanks for the response in any case. Do you know anywhere else I might be able to ask for help? I have tried ubuntuforums, askubuntu and xda developers forums and no response really, except the one thing to try at xda developers forums that did not work sadly
<Norrin> dobey, there's a small difference to begin with.  that's why apple and microsoft will likely merge they're operating systems.  it's just a matter of when
<ibuntu> Norrin: if I could send/receive calls/sms from my laptop, I would not have a phone
<ibuntu> err, oops
<popey> ibuntu: maybe ask awe_ when he is around
<popey> he's the expert
<Norrin> the size is the only differentiator.  same capabilities.  so depending on the situation you pick up a difference size
<ibuntu> dobey: if I could send/receive calls/sms from my laptop, I would not have a phone
<dobey> yeah, my laptop is smaller already
<dobey> ibuntu: i would
<Norrin> thanks for the convo guys
<dobey> well, technically, i can send/recieve calls/sms from my laptop today if i want to
<dobey> it's actually not difficult to do
<ibuntu> popey: thanks I will post up here and watch for awe_ I will try to hold out for a few more days before reinstalling the OS on my phone, I just have a whole bunch of information and stuff in text messages and the like I would need to manually dig up and copy over into the text files. A lot of work I would like to avoid if possible
<ibuntu> dobey: you mean with a paid service like skype or....?
<dobey> ibuntu: no, i mean with bluetooth
<ibuntu> dobey: I will look this up
<dobey> ibuntu: if you have developer mode enabled, you can create a back-up tarball of your data pretty easily.
<ibuntu> dobey: as in text messages, contacts and all my quick memo notes? realistically I only need those three things
<dobey> yes
<ibuntu> dobey: I do have developer mode enabled, how might I figure out how to do such a thing?
<dobey> ibuntu: plug in usb, open a terminal on your pc, run phablet-shell to ssh to the phone, close all the running apps on the phone, and run "tar -jcvf /tmp/phone-backup.tar.bz2 /home/phablet"
<dobey> then when that's done, exit the ssh session, and run "adb pull /tmp/phone-backup.tar.bz2 ."
<dobey> then you should ahve a phone-backup.tar.bz2 on your pc, that has all your data from the phone inside it
<ibuntu> doesn't that just backup what is in the home directory?
<dobey> where else would your data be?
<ibuntu> I did not know text messages and stuff were in there
<dobey> i'm pretty certain they are
<ibuntu> wouldn't I see some files in there for text messages or contacts or something if I listed all files including hidden ones?
<ibuntu> nvm, I do
<dobey> they are in an sqlite db, iirc
<dobey> contacts are
<dobey> .local/share/evolution/addressbook/system/contacts.db is contacts
<dobey> i don't recall which one is for sms messages
<ibuntu> sounds good, when I reinstall how do I get the files back in there?
<dobey> hmm, actually, the sqlite db only has references to messages
<dobey> i don't know where the actual messages are stored
<dobey> so maybe hold off on that.
<cwayne1> .local/share/history-service/history.sqlite
<awe_> ibuntu, what's the issue?
<cwayne1> dobey: ^
<dobey> oh, history-service
<ibuntu> awe_: AWESOME! so glad you are on
<dobey> ok so yeah they are in home
<dobey> thanks cwayne1
<cwayne1> np
<dobey> ibuntu: to restore, you just "adb push phone-backup.tar.bz2 /tmp/" then phablet-shell and "tar -jxvf /tmp/phone-backup.tar.bz2" and reboot when it's done
<ibuntu> awe_: easiest way to describe the issue is to link you  here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/ubuntu-touch/help/suddenly-connect-to-cellular-network-t2989788
<dobey> ibuntu: then you'll need to re-install any non-default apps from the store that you installed
 * awe_ reading
<ibuntu> thanks dobey, I will have to do that if I can't sort this out with awe_, btw, I have about 11GB of music in my music folder that it is trying to backup, any way to adjust the tar command to exclude that folder?
<awe_> ibuntu, have you been updating the phone all along, or did it just suddenly stop working?
<dobey> ibuntu: add "--exclude=/home/phablet/Music" to the arguments list i think
<awe_> ibuntu, also... has it had ubuntu on the phone the whole time, or is there any chance you flashed android/CM and then went back to Ubuntu?
<awe_> this could've caused a radio fw update
<awe_> ibuntu, also in order to get more eyes on the problem, it would probably be best to send an email to the ubuntu-phone ml and additionally open an ofono bug
<awe_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ofono/+filebug
<ibuntu> awe_: so I installed Ubuntu on the phone the day after I got it. I never flashed the phone after installing Ubuntu. I initially wasn't  updating for about a month or so as I thought I had automatic updates turned on but I did not. I started updating a few weeks ago and was using the phone fine for at least a week, fully updated
<awe_> and then it just stopped working? or did it stop after an update?
<ibuntu> no, it did not seem to be related to an update. I had the phone competely up to date and with automatic updates on and it was working fine for a good week
<ibuntu> I had restarted it many times as I have to restart it to get things working a lot of the time
<awe_> got it, and then one day it just stopped registering?
<dobey> also which channel and image # are you on?
<awe_> could you pastebin the output of 'system-image-cli -i'?
<awe_> that'll give us all the important details
<dobey> awe_: btw, do you know what "Denied" sim status means exactly?
<ibuntu> I came home from work on monday morning and was connected. I restarted the phone to get bluetooth to turn back on and then it would not connect to the network, it said Denied and has been like that since (8 days ago monday)
<awe_> dobey, as defined in the dictionary
<awe_> ;D
<dobey> i'm not sure the OED understands ofono as well as you might ;)
<awe_> it means the operator said no to the phone attempting to register
<dobey> ok, that's what i thought, and why i suggested verifying if the IMEI got blocked for some reason
<ibuntu> you mean pastebin that output when I file the bug? I have already included it in the post I linked you
<ibuntu> awe_: at dobey's suggestion I contacted my network carrier and they concfirmed the imei is not blocked
<awe_> ibuntu, sure...  again, not many of us read the xda forum which is why I suggested an email to the mailing-list and a bug
<awe_> that will get the problem in front of a few more of the ubuntu telephony engineers
<ibuntu> thanks, I am having a very difficult time trying to figure out the best place to get support with ubuntu for phones
<awe_> also... if you file the bug, please attached /var/log/syslog ( after a fresh reboot ), and the output of /usr/share/ofono/scripts/list-modems
<ibuntu> But just to check, you have access to the output of my system-image-cli -i atm, right?
<awe_> ibuntu, well... you're running a community build which isn't officially supported by *anyone*.  It's meant for developers...
<ibuntu> Did I install the wrong image channel?
<awe_> no
<dobey> ibuntu: curious. if you open Cellular Settings from the network indicator, or system settings, have you tried tapping on the "Carrier" there and switching between manual/automatic, and different carriers (if different ones show up)?
<dobey> awe_: eh? the Nexus 4 is an officially supported device on !devices :)
<awe_> ibuntu, one other thing you might try is to re-flash...
<dobey> i guess the bot doesn't understand that, or it's missing
<awe_> dobey, it's still purposed for developers...  there's no *official* support for it.
<ibuntu> awe_: so just for clarification, there is no official support for Ubuntu for devices at all? Until it comes out on native hardware?
<awe_> I didn't say that...
<awe_> devices is a pretty broad term
<ibuntu> sorry, I read a post where someone was told "ubuntu touch is now called ubuntu for devices"
<awe_> there's no official support of the Nexus4  Ubuntu builds by Canonical, although as it's our reference device, we do our best to informally support via mailing-list, IRC, launchpad
<ibuntu> I guess, seeing as this channel is call ubuntu-touch I should continue to refer to it as ubuntu touch
<doomlord_> oh ubuntu touch, i stopped following it... has it advanced at all?
<doomlord_> i recall talk of desktop convergance etc
<awe_> ibuntu, np re: the naming.  It confuses me sometime too! ;)-
<ibuntu> awe_: and yeah, I was about to reflash with dobey's advice about how to back up my text messages as I have a bunch of data in there I didn't want to manually dig out
<awe_> doomlord_, yes, it's progressed...  convergence is still something we're working towards, but not currently part of the product
<awe_> ibuntu, got it
<doomlord_> i was always intruiged by the idea of a desktop os on an arm tablet, docked
<doomlord_> even if it needs some lightweight setup to make it useable
<ibuntu> so right now, the only thing I can try is to reflash? and if I am still experiencing the issue post a bug report?
<doomlord_> on its' own, i'm not so interested in simply getting a replacement for android on an android device.. but the convergance idea was inspiring
<awe_> ibuntu, well... you could send an email/file a bug prior to re-flashing, but it might take us awhile to determine what's gone wrong
<dobey> doomlord_: if you stopped following it, why are you in this channel? :) just to troll?
<doomlord_> i just fired up this IRC client and it has this on the channel list.
<awe_> doomlord_, it's something we're working towards, but you have to walk before you can run
<doomlord_> ok
<dobey> right
<dobey> and a better phone os than android is welcome too
<dobey> now if i could just get a phone that was a reasonable size
<awe_> d'oh
<doomlord_> even running a minimal desktop would be interesting.. some minimal WM , terminals, no need for a whole fancy DE
<awe_> dobey, yea I'm with you there.  not a big fan of this whole phablet nonsense myself
<awe_> doomlord_, it'll happen, but it also requires hw that's purpose-built
<doomlord_> oh, beyond the basic ability to plug in a display ?
<awe_> ( ie. you need the right connectors/docking hw )
<ibuntu> dobey: took me a minute to pop my sim back into the nexus 4 but switching to manual causes my roaming network to appear, WIND Away
<dobey> i seem to have misplaced my old samsung phone which was about the perfect size (external dimentions, screen could be a bit bigger with some other small tweaks) though; certainly any phone bigger than the pre3 is too big
<dobey> ibuntu: not the local network though?
<awe_> I still like the Nexus5 form-factor the best
<ibuntu> dobey, this is correct
<dobey> nexus 5 is too big; it barely fits in my pcoket
<awe_> ibuntu, it's weird that they have a roaming network available locally...
<dobey> ibuntu: weird
<dobey> ibuntu: do  you have roaming disabled on your service?
<ibuntu> awe_, dobey, on android usually WIND has their WIND Home network and 2 different WIND Away networks available to connect to; I have asked WIND to block my sim cards ability to connect to a roaming network as I never want extra charges
<ibuntu> this was something I did years ago when I first set up the account
<ibuntu> it is nothing new
<dobey> ibuntu: that explains the "Denied" then
<ibuntu> I guess it is trying to connect to the away network and getting a denied
<dobey> ibuntu: for some reason it's only seeing the roaming network and trying to connect to that, which is of course denied due to your account
<ibuntu> but as I said, my house-mate on a different network carrier gets the same Denied
<dobey> right. maybe for the same reason; i can't tell you why exactly :)
<dobey> i have no idea why it wouldn't be seeing the proper network though :-/
<ibuntu> I will try to reflash and if I am still having the issue I will continue to try other sim cards to see which networks are working and which are not
<awe_> ibuntu, if you flash without --bootstrap and --wipe, your data will be preserved
<ibuntu> text messages and all?
<awe_> ibuntu, but to be safe you can do: adb pull /home/phablet/.local/share/history-service/history.sqlite
<awe_> ibuntu, correct
<dobey> ibuntu: did you not create the backup already?
<awe_> without --wipe or --bootstrap, data in the phablet user homedir is preserved
<dobey> should be. always good to back up when flashing a device :)
<ibuntu> dobey: using the tar command you suggested? I haven't gotten around to it quite yet
<dobey> never know when recovery might go bonkers or something
<dobey> ibuntu: yes
<ibuntu> I will do that now
<awe_> again, no guarantees that this will solve the problem, but it's probably your best chance at fixing it without filing a bug, and us going back and forth trying to root cause
<ibuntu> awe_: you are saying text messages are stored in /home/phablet/.local/share/history-service/history.sqlite and I can just back that up?
<awe_> yes
<dobey> there are other files you'll want to back up as well
<ibuntu> ty, I will back up and reflash and let you guys know how that goes. Thank you so much for the help btw
<ibuntu> yes
<ibuntu> I will do both back ups
<awe_> ibuntu, I'd grab the file, re-flash, and only restore it if things aren't still there after the flash...
<dobey> app settings, contacts, accounts, etcâ¦
<ibuntu> awe_, thanks, that's what I was thinking. I am also going to backup my home folder as dobey suggested, jic
<awe_> ibuntu, ok good luck!
<ibuntu> awe_: thanks, so I should boot back into developer mode and run 'ubuntu-device-flash --channel=ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09' and that will install the most stable/most supported version of Ubuntu Touch as present?
<sergiusens> ibuntu awe_ leave out --channel=ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09
<sergiusens> ibuntu: if you are doing this from recovery, you will need to add --device
<ibuntu> sorry I meant reboot into the bootloader
<dobey> no, you need to be in recovery or in the running system with developer mode enabled; in bootloader you have to use --bootstrap which will wipe the device, iirc
<ibuntu> okay, so just leave adb shell and run 'ubuntu-device-flash'
<ibuntu> with the phone on
<ibuntu> awe_, dobey, just finished backing everything up. and I have the nexus 4 on and connected (loaded into ubuntu touch), I am going to run 'ubuntu-device-flash' from my laptop. not in an adb shell. this is correct?
<awe_> yes
<ibuntu> ty, reflashing now
<ahoneybun> hello my N4 does not show up with "adb devices"
<ahoneybun> I have developer mode on
<sergiusens> ahoneybun: try replugin or restarting adb on the host
<ahoneybun> I know the SDK is having problems detecting it as well
<ahoneybun> what is the command to restart adb sergiusens ?
<popey> adb kill-server
<ahoneybun> thanks popey
<ahoneybun> but still I have problems
<ahoneybun> I used the same cable and port as I used to install Ubuntu on it
<ahoneybun> so I know the cable is fine and the port
<popey> turn off developer mode and back on again
<ahoneybun> ok
<ahoneybun> wth it turned itself off
<popey> Magic
<ahoneybun> seems I have to be running mir to run the phone app on desktop
<dobey> ahoneybun: which app?
<ahoneybun> dobey, any
<popey> ahoneybun: how you installing the apps?
<ahoneybun> I tried phone
<ahoneybun> adb shell phone
<dobey> oh
<ahoneybun> qmlscene phone.qml
<dobey> adb shell phone runs it on a device
<dobey> and qmlscene foo.qml won't necessarily work
<ahoneybun> the app dev school says it runs it on the desktop
<dobey> nothing to do with mir necessarily though
<popey> ah
<popey> woah there cowboy â»
<ibuntu> awe_, dobey, thanks for the help but sadly reflashing my device did not solve the issue. I will file a bug report and email the ubuntu touch ml
<popey> qmlscene foo.qml works on the desktop just fine.
<ahoneybun> interested
<ahoneybun> crap
<ahoneybun> tried to copy
<popey> on the phone thats different
<popey> you can launch apps on the phone though
<dobey> popey: assuming all the necessary bits are importable without any additional configuration for qml, yes
<popey> right, yeah
<awe_> ibuntu, OK, it was worth a shot...
<ahoneybun> popey, I'm trying to deploy my app on the device but I get 2 errors
<popey> how are you deploying?
<ahoneybun> though SDK
<popey> pressing green button in qtcreator?
<ahoneybun> :-1: warning: desktop_Exec (UbuntuBeginner): found unexpected Exec with architecture 'all': ./qtc_device_debughelper.py
<ahoneybun> :-1: warning: security_policy_groups_safe_UbuntuBeginner (debug): (REJECT) reserved policy group 'debug': not for production use
<ahoneybun> The debug policy group is automatically injected and should only be used for development.
<ahoneybun> To create a package for the store use the publish tab!
<ahoneybun> crap
<ahoneybun> sorry
<ahoneybun> thought it would be on one line
<popey> hmm, odd, not seen that
<ahoneybun> darn
<ahoneybun> on a off note.
<ahoneybun> I'm thinking of doing a Dev App school for Global Jam next month
<ahoneybun> at a spot the local LUG use
<ibuntu> awe_, dobey, I decided, since I had all my stuff backed up, to flash the device back to android and then reinstall ubuntu developer channel. Low and behold, I am connected to the WIND Home network... everything seems to be in working order
<dobey> ibuntu: cool
<dobey> ibuntu: maybe you needed a radio update and the flash to android did that
<awe_> ibuntu, great news...  my guess is that somehow the radio fw got messed up
<ibuntu> awe_, dobey, sounds something like that. Thanks for all your help guys. I have learned a good bit throughout this whole process. Should I switch to the rtm channel if I want a more stable system? I used 'ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel --bootstrap' I'm not sure how unstable this channel is but I had all sorts of issues with the rtm channel with crashing, apps breaking, etc. I was constantly having to restart. Am I better of
<awe_> ibuntu, if you run 'ubuntu-device-flash --list-channels', you'll see all the choices available and you'll notice that devel is an alias to our vivid images
<dobey> ibuntu: devel is based off 15.04 and a bit less stable at this point, yeah. not sure what issues you were having exactly on rtm, but it's been pretty ok for me on my nexus5
<awe_> your probably best using: ubuntu-touch/stable (alias to ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09)
<ibuntu> awe_, unknown flag list-channels
<dobey> huh, someone broke that
<awe_> ibuntu, what release are you running?
<ibuntu> Right now, on the phone? That got me connected to my network again?
<awe_> it works fine on 14.10; version  - 0.4+14.10.20141002-0ubuntu1
<awe_> no on your desktop
<ibuntu> 14.10
<awe_> is it up-to-date?
<awe_> I just tried and it works fine
<ibuntu> as of yesterday or the day before. I have not updated today
<dobey> 1.1+14.10.20141002-0ubuntu1
<awe_> it's "--list-channels"
<dobey> awe_: ^^ that's the version of phablet-tools i have. are you up to date? :)
<awe_> yes
<dobey> hmm
<awe_> dobey, it doesn't work for you either?
<dobey> 0.4+15.04.20141125-0ubuntu1
<awe_> that's weird
<dobey> oh, that's what i have
<dobey> forgot ubuntu-device-flash is its own package
<awe_> ;)
<ibuntu> I should maybe include that it outputs this line before unknown flag: DEPRECATED: Implicit 'touch' subcommand assumed
<dobey> i'm on 14.04 though, with the sdk ppa
<dobey> and yes, it doesn't work for me either :)
<awe_> hmmm, not sure about the PPA version
<awe_> but it definitely works on 14.10
<awe_> you can verify it by running 'ubuntu-device-flash --help'
<dobey> yeah, --help doesn't list the option either
<awe_> what's the version of ubuntu-device-flash on your system?
<ibuntu> same for me
<dobey> 0.4+15.04.20141125-0ubuntu1
<awe_> is it the same as mine?
<dobey> for me
<ibuntu> how do I get the version?
<dobey> dpkg -l ubuntu-device-flash
<dobey> or dpkg -l|grep ubuntu-device-flash if it gets cropped due to terminal size
<cwayne1>  ubuntu-device-flash query --list-channels --device mako
<awe_> or dpkg-query -W <pkgname>
<ibuntu> 0.4+15.04.20
<ibuntu> oops
<cwayne1> RTFM :P
<ibuntu> that got cut right?
<dobey> cwayne1: nope, it's broken in the ppa version
<cwayne1> you have to do ubuntu-device-flash query --list-channels --device <whatever> now at least on 14.10
<dobey> ibuntu: yes, but it's enough to show you have the ppa version
<cwayne1> hm, thats obnoxious
<dobey> oh
<dobey> well TFM is lies
<ibuntu> 0.4+15.04.20141125-0ubuntu1
<dobey>   ubuntu-device-flash [OPTIONS] touch [touch-OPTIONS]
<cwayne1> oh mine shows   ubuntu-device-flash [OPTIONS] <core | query | touch>
<dobey> ubuntu-device-flash query --device mako --list-channels
<dobey> that does work
<dobey> cwayne1: *fun*!
<cwayne1> dobey: thats what i said! i think this is all churn from snappy stuff or something tbh
<ibuntu> same for me. with the subcommand query. the issue was that it was assuming touch as the subcommand
<ibuntu> awe_, under you suggestion I will run 'ubuntu-device-flash --channel=ubuntu-touch/stable' to revert to the latest stable build
<awe_> ibuntu, sounds good
<ibuntu> in the meantime , I wanted to ask you guys, in all the videos I see of people using Ubuntu touch their background is purple or the same color as the default ubuntu background. Mine has always been white. What's the deal with this? How can I get the purple background?
<cwayne1> ibuntu: anything showing a purple background is quite old
<ibuntu> thanks for the info... any way to get it back?
<nhaines> No, there are no plans to support backgrounds on the Dash.
<ibuntu> thanks again for the info
<ibuntu> awe_, dobey, reflashed to Ubuntu 14.10 (r12) and I'm still connected. I will try your suggested methods to restore my text messages and let you know how everything goes
<awe_> ok.  Did you use --wipe or --bootstrap?
<ibuntu> awe_, no, should I have?
<awe_> ah...sorry forgot you flashed android
<awe_> never mind
<ibuntu> awe_, I thought that is what you might have been thinking... while we are on the subject, you or dobey suggested that reflashing to android may have updated the radio fw? Is there any kind of command I could issue from the phone or adb shell to do this without having to reflash to android? (say, if, for example, I were to encounter this issue again)
<awe_> ibuntu, not something I can answer off the top of my head...
<ibuntu> awe_, do you know how I could go about finding something like that out?
<dobey> ibuntu: no, to update the radio fw, you have to do it from the bootloader using the android tools
<ibuntu> dobey, can't I access those by booting into the bootloader without having to reflash back to android?
<dobey> at least on the n4. not sure how that will work exactly on the real ubuntu phones coming out
<dobey> ibuntu: you don't have to flash back to android to do it
<awe_> ibuntu, not something you should normally have to worry about.  If you're going to use the phone for day-to-day use, sticking with the stable release channel is the best advice I have for you right now
<dobey> ibuntu: the android image tarball has separate radio and system images; you can flash only the radio segment
<awe_> you also can really hose your phone if you flash the wrong fw
<dobey> yeah. you have to pay a bit of attention and have some idea of what you're doing
<ibuntu> that's reasonable. I am glad to have not bricked my phone at any point with all of this reflashing
<dobey> eh. bricking a nexus phone is something you have to try pretty hard to do
<dobey> or be really dumb and flash the firmware for the wrong thing
<dobey> anyway, definitely time for me to go
<dobey> later
<ibuntu> dobey, thanks for all your help
<ibuntu> awe_, same to you
<awe_> np
 * ahoneybun walks in
<nexus7user> hello
<nexus7user> looking to see if anyone uses a 2012 nexus 7 with ubuntu touch
<nhaines> That isn't possible.
<nexus7user> gotcha
<nexus7user> that's unfortunate
<nexus7user> now selling: 32GB Nexus 7 2012 version...
<nexus7user> anyone?
<nhaines> The 2012 Nexus 7 and 2013 Nexus 7 are entirely different hardware devices.
<nexus7user> shocking
<ibuntu> awe_, so to get my text messages back I would use 'adb push /home/phablet/.local/share/history-service/history.sqlite' or something similar?
<awe_> ibuntu, you push it back to the same dir you pulled it from
<ibuntu> awe_, yeah, just not sure about the syntax for the push command. I can't find a man page for it
<awe_> adb push <source file> <destination>
<ibuntu> ty
<awe_> 'adb help' give you all the gory details too
<ibuntu> ahhh, I was trying to man adb
<ibuntu> awe_, thanks so much. got everything back
#ubuntu-touch 2015-01-07
<awe_> awesome!
<ibuntu> got any recommendations on where I can learn more about ubuntu? I'd like to eventually become a developer and contribute to the ubuntu touch project
<nhaines> What exactly do you want to learn about Ubuntu?
<ibuntu> Sorry, I guess that's a really vague question. I'd like to be able to know enough about how the system works to be able to contribute to fixing bugs and working on the core system functionality. To aid in the coding and development of the Ubuntu OS and especially Ubuntu Touch.
<awe_> http://developer.ubuntu.com/ is a good place to start
<ibuntu> thanks
<awe_> ibuntu, I'll be around tomorrow if you want to chat some more.  Also more folks will start to be around in the next few days as folks get back from the holidays
<awe_> have fun, I'm off...
<awe_> ttyl!
<wg4568> hi
<wg4568> anyone here?
<cwayne1> dobey: fyi just submitted meetup scope to the store if you wanna check it out (once it gets published).  I've actually altered the account-provider to use oauth2 instead of oauth1.0a as well if you'd like me to update my branch later
<dholbach> good morning
<seb128> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hi seb128
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Old Rock Day! :-)
<willcooke> is this wiki page out of date?  http://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/image-channels/
<willcooke> e.g. ubuntu-device-flash --list-channels
<willcooke> doesnt seem to work any more
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phablet-tools/+bug/1393560
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1393560 in phablet-tools (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-device-flash --list-channels doesn't work" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<willcooke> looks like someone beat me to it :)
<popey> ubuntu-device-flash query --list-channels --device=flo
<popey> that works
<popey> so yes, the docs are outdated
<willcooke> looks like the man page is too
<popey> sergiusens: ^
<willcooke> sergiusens, you want me to open a bug?  (The man page says options should have a single hyphen for example)
<willcooke> thx popey
<popey> np
<willcooke> popey, one more quick question, Im flashing my device with the Vivid image, and I've been told to make sure it's read/write
<willcooke> does that mean simply turning on dev mode?
<aquarius> Chipaca, ping
<Chipaca> aquarius: pong
<Chipaca> aquarius: was getting a cuppa :)
<aquarius> Chipaca, hny, etc. :)
<aquarius> ooh, there's a good idea :)
<Chipaca> aquarius: and somebody had carelessly left some of my mum's xmas cake right next to the kettle
<Chipaca> honestly, people sometimes
<aquarius> it's like they *want* you to fall into the trap
<Chipaca> tedg: ping about urldispatcher when you're around
<jgdx> brendand, rtm 02 is looking good! 4 reboots and no asyncness
<jgdx> tedg, ^
<sergiusens> popey: willcooke sure
<sergiusens> phablet-tools is the wrong project, I don't even look at those anymore...
<Chipaca> com.canonical.URLDispatcher.BadURL: URL 'settings:///system/system-update' is not handleable by the URL Dispatcher
<Chipaca> tedg: ^ wat?
<brendand> jgdx, yeah i signed it off
<jgdx> brendand, nice
<willcooke> sergiusens, which project should I log the bug against?
<sergiusens> willcooke: goget-ubuntu-touch, or just ubuntu-bug ubuntu-device-flash ;-)
<willcooke> thx sergiusens
<sergiusens> np
<aquarius> tedg! oi! you see the magic appid:// URLs that URLDispatcher supports? How can I pass extra information with them? I just tried to URLDispatcher appid://org.kryogenix.myapp/MyApp/current-user-version?url=somestuff and urldispatcher says it's invalid
<tedg> aquarius, It is. What extra information do you want?
<aquarius> tedg, I would like a URL which invokes my app and passes it a *different* URL
<tedg> aquarius, The plan was to support desktop actions, but we're not there yet.
<tedg> aquarius, You probably want to register your own URL for that "aquarius://foo/bar"
<aquarius> tedg, that is: I have an http(s) URL that I want to pass explicitly to my app.
<aquarius> I can, of course, register my own URL scheme, but I shouldn't need to, because appid:// URLs exist
<tedg> aquarius, Then you can sub "aquarius" for "http" internally.
<aquarius> can an appid:// URL *only* be used to start up my app, and not to pass it any data?
<tedg> aquarius, Today, yes. It basically runs the app without an URL. We don't pass it anything in that case.
<aquarius> hrm.
<aquarius> this is not putting you on Santa's good boys list. :)
 * tedg has 340 some days to recover
<aquarius> right FINE I'll register a custom url scheme then FINE
<aquarius> tedg, on a more serious note, how does a QML app know that it was started by URLDispatcher, and get the URL?
<tedg> aquarius, http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.10/Ubuntu.Components.UriHandler/
<tedg> aquarius, Make sure to put a %u in the Exec line of your desktop file as well.
<aquarius> tedg, are there rules about what a URL has to look like? If I register for protocol: "myapp", will URL dispatcher handle a URL which looks like myapp://12345 ?
<aquarius> that is: it doesn't have a meaningful "domain"?
<aquarius> exec line is currently Exec=qmlscene $@ main.qml
<aquarius> should that be Exec=qmlscene $@ main.qml %u
<aquarius> ?
<tedg> aquarius, As long as the domain follows the rules for domain names. You'd probably be better off with three slashes.
<aquarius> ah.
<tedg> aquarius, I think it might need to be "-- %u" for qmlscene.
<aquarius> so if I want to pass arbitrary data, I'm probably better off with a URL like myapp://ignore.com/whatevermydatais
<tedg> Or just myapp:foobar
<aquarius> ah!
<aquarius> that's doable :)
<tedg> Some examples were in this bug (now fixed): https://bugs.launchpad.net/url-dispatcher/+bug/1351222
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1351222 in url-dispatcher (Ubuntu RTM) "URL parsing doesn't comply with RFC 3986" [High,Fix released]
<tedg> aquarius, If you really want your app to "phone home" you can use: tel:+441243532 ;-)
 * aquarius grins
<aquarius> nope, that doesn't work
<aquarius> tedg, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9687943/
<aquarius> my app (caxton) is registered for "protocol":"caxton" URLs (assuming I've done it right), and a caxton URL looks like caxton:(url encoded http(s) URL)
<aquarius> but urldispatcher says they're invalid, as per pastebvin
<tedg> Hmm, let's not assume you've done it right :-)
<aquarius> ha!
<aquarius> touche
<aquarius> what do I need to do to test whether I've done it right?
<tedg> aquarius, sqlite3 ~/.cache/url-dispatcher/urls-1.db "select * from urls where protocol = \"caxton\";"
<aquarius> 9|caxton|
<tedg> aquarius, And I'm assuming you're using a recent build, right?
<aquarius> probanly not
<tedg> (newer than middle of Dec)
<aquarius> nope
<aquarius> definitely not that new
<aquarius> there seems to be no way to upgrade my emulator, and no way to create such a build from the IDE.
<tedg> aquarius, Hmm, so that bug that I linked to above needs to be fixed.
<tedg> aquarius, url dispatcher 0.1+15.04.20141211-0ubuntu1
<aquarius> tedg, ah, if it's a fixed bug then I'm OK...
<aquarius> I can work around it for now, or just upgrade :)
<aquarius> I prefer being backwards-compatible with this sort of thing anyway.
<tedg> So the triple slash approach would have always worked.
<tedg> We just didn't handle the "non slash" case
<aquarius> k
<aquarius> trying...
<aquarius> aaaaaand... everything works!
<aquarius> nice one Chipaca and tedg
<Chipaca> âeverythingâ
<Chipaca> as much as can be expected :)
 * tedg assumes aquarius will have no more issues, ever
<aquarius> that seems likely
<aquarius> the bugs are never in MY code ;)
<popey> aquarius: quitting computers so early?
<aquarius> you lot are very mean to me, I think. :)
<dobey> it's not you, it's your code :)
<JoannisO>  I can't seem to find an API that lets me control the LED on the back of my phone. Is this only available to canonical apps?
<dobey> the camera flash led?
<JoannisO> Yes
<popey> there's a couple of flash apps in the store
<JoannisO> They don't work/crash instantly.
<JoannisO> Well... they being uTorch which is the only one I could find tbh
<JoannisO> My stupid brain finally comprehended the word "Torch" so I searched that instead of "flash"/"flashlight" but they don't work either. The phone app does open it.
<JoannisO> The camera app*
<JoannisO> But back to my question; is there an API that lets me control the LED? Because I'd write one on my own and see if that works.
<aquarius> JoannisO, there is.
<aquarius> JoannisO, http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qml-qtmultimedia-cameraflash.html
<popey> they used to work
<popey> wonder what broke
<popey> maybe permissions issue.
<aquarius> utorch's code is at https://launchpad.net/utorch
<Chipaca> 2015-01-07 15:27:18,626 - CRITICAL - Error: "Client has insuficient permissions to access the service.Method:getAuthSessionObjectPath"
<lool> ondra: I've updated LP #1394204 with a link to test binaries
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1394204 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "dbus daemon spinning with NM AP properties change event" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1394204
<Chipaca> somebody's broken something :)
<lool> trying them here now
<Chipaca> tedg: speaking about people breaking things, in devel-propsed right now i'm getting com.canonical.URLDispatcher.BadURL: URL 'settings:///system/system-update' is not handleable by the URL Dispatcher
<lool> ondra: did you complete a build + test since yesterday evening?
<Chipaca> tedg: what broke and why?
<ondra> lool yeah build eventually finished so I tested what I built and that worked
<ondra> lool at least when I did what joc told me, I was not able to reproduce it
<ondra> lool did walk in and out of wifi range about 4 times, and then checked dbus and it was all normal
<joc> ondra: was is still on the phone you gave me?
<ondra> joc yes
<ondra> joc any other issues with that phone?
<joc> ondra: thought i saw some dbus spikes earlier
<joc> ondra: would want to test more though
<ondra> joc feel free to do more tests :)
<joc> ondra: was asked to do some already by tvoss, will try again in the office tomorrow probably
<ondra> joc ok
<jgdx> Wellark, I can't find the private connectivity-api docs, you know where they are?
<aquarius> JamesTait, ping :)
<JamesTait> aquarius, happy new year!
<aquarius> JamesTait, heya, dude. Happy 2015 :)
<JamesTait> Not so far, it isn't, but there's a long way to go. ;)
<aquarius> JamesTait, we talked (at oggcamp, I think?) about some way to get (and update) a DB of all reviews of all Ubuntu apps without hammering the backend API, right?
<JamesTait> aquarius, we did indeed.
<aquarius> was our conclusion "there is no way to do that but we'll add one"?
<JamesTait> aquarius, I can't quite remember what the conclusion was actually!
<aquarius> JamesTait, ok, so if you have two minutes, perhaps we can rediscuss. I can get all the reviews by walking the list of all packages and then walking the list of all reviews for every package and saving the responses. But that's pretty harsh :)
<aquarius> ideally I would like http://reviews.staging.ubuntu.com/click/api/1.0/reviews/?since=20150101T120000 or somethng...
<JamesTait> aquarius, rnr is a separate service, though, which I'm not *that* familiar with, but I'm happy to discuss, with that caveat that I can't guarantee anything we conclude would actually get implemented any time soon. ;)
<aquarius> but I'm open to better suggestions if you have any
<aquarius> oh! I thought you were the rnr dude. Who is?
<JamesTait> aquarius, I think pindonga and fgallina are the two most familiar with it (or who touched it last).
<aquarius> aha, fgallina, that's the name, indeed
<JamesTait> aquarius, but currently, as you say, you have to get a list of packages and then query the rnr api for each one.
<aquarius> that's obviously doom
<JamesTait> Or boom.
<aquarius> right. It will, at minimum, get me blocked :)
<aquarius> I'll file a bug on https://launchpad.net/rnr-server and start a discussion...
<dobey> Chipaca: ugh, online-accounts
<JamesTait> Heh, you found the project before me!
<JamesTait> Wanna job? :-P
<aquarius> I'm fine with my job, thanks :)
<dobey> push notifications for rnr?
<Chipaca> ssh
<Chipaca> don't give the man ideas
<aquarius> :)
<JamesTait> Oops, too late! ;)
 * Chipaca 's hoping it's just aquarius' usual sausage-fingers-in-pies thing
<dobey> did i say that out loud?
 * Chipaca might have skipped lunch
<aquarius> hmph
<Chipaca> all my analogies are coming out foodish
<dobey> haha
<dobey> sausage fingers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2aKsoizx1w
<Chipaca> WAT
<dobey> haha
<JoannisO> What's the channel for the ubuntu-sdk?
<dobey> JoannisO: #ubuntu-app-devel i think if you want to ask questions about app development
<bzoltan> JoannisO: there is no dedicated channel for the sdk, here or on the #ubuntu-app-devel
<JamesTait> JoannisO, #ubuntu-app-devel might be the better one.
<JoannisO> Okay. Thanks!
 * bzoltan wonders if dobey and JamesTait have highlight on sdk word too :D
<dobey> nope
<JamesTait> bzoltan, nope, just happened to be around at the right time. :)
<bzoltan> Cool :) that is great community service then
 * dobey is just a helpful kind of guy
 * Chipaca can confirm
<Chipaca> so, online accounts in 15.04 is broken afaict. Who do I pester?
<dobey> Chipaca: i don't think that's a 15.04 issue
 * Chipaca is flashing rtm to check
<aquarius> JamesTait, https://bugs.launchpad.net/rnr-server/+bug/1408353 filed, if you have thoughts
<Chipaca> dobey: tell me more
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1408353 in Ratings and Reviews server "Some way to mirror the review database by a third party " [Undecided,New]
<dobey> Chipaca: you are getting that issue trying to access account details for u1?
<Chipaca> dobey: yes
<JamesTait> aquarius, thank you muchly.
<dobey> Chipaca: i'm not sure what is causing that to happen exactly. deleting and adding the u1 account again will "fix" it though
<dobey> Chipaca: if you can reproduce it reliably right now, please talk to mardy and get some debug info for him
<Chipaca> I might have just flashed the device
<dobey> ok
<mardy> dobey, Chipaca: I suspect it's because the U1 account was created back in a time when the client creating the account (in this case, the U1 plugin) was not automatically set as owner of the account
<Chipaca> mardy: I'm reading "it's not going to happen to real users"
<mardy> dobey: beside that, please don't forget about bug 1376445
<ubot5> bug 1376445 in ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts (Ubuntu) "Addition of signon-apparmor-extension causes token lookup problems" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1376445
<dobey> mardy: i'm not sure that's the case. but it's difficult
<mardy> Chipaca: well, that thing was not fixed too long ago, maybe a month or so
<dobey> mardy: yes, but even getting that fix in the image, people will still have to create a new account to actually get the "fix"
<Chipaca> mardy: dobey: I just flashed the device to rtm, and it works there
<Chipaca> $ /usr/lib/ubuntu-push-client/signing-helper https://push.ubuntu.com/
<Chipaca> OAuth oauth_consumer_key=<SNIP>
<dobey> Chipaca: you just wiped and created a new account, right?
<mardy> dobey: true, but please try to fix it soonish, so that every new user has a good ACL in their account
<Chipaca> no
<Chipaca> old account
<Chipaca> flashed, not wiped
<dobey> Chipaca: oh, interesting
<Chipaca> I'll move back to devel-propsed and check
<Chipaca> this *might* be the apparmor bug thing
<dobey> that certainly wouldh't have changed the ACL on the account itself
<mardy> Chipaca: IIRC in the rtm we are not using the apparmor extension in OA, so we basically allow everything
<Chipaca> FWIW this was a devel-proposed from just before the year-end break
<Chipaca> mardy: dobey: ah, so the "delete and recreate account" is apparmor-related?
<dobey> Chipaca: i'm not entirely sure
<dobey> i'm going to claim it is magic-related
<Chipaca> with any luck it'll still happen when i'm back on devel-proposed
<Chipaca> and we can poke it with a stick
<dobey> if it does, that would be great
<Chipaca> I'll bring the beer
<dobey> in the meantime, i am going to get some ghost pepper hot wings for lunch
<dobey> :)
<Chipaca> $ /usr/lib/ubuntu-push-client/signing-helper https://push.ubuntu.com/
<Chipaca> 2015-01-07 16:43:23,208 - CRITICAL - Error: "Client has insuficient permissions to access the service.Method:getAuthSessionObjectPath"
<Chipaca> mardy: so i should try recreating the account?
<Chipaca> mardy: how is this going to work for people upgrading from 14.09?
<mardy> Chipaca: can you please enable the logging in /etc/signond.conf, and try again?
<mardy> Chipaca: I just want to make sure it's the same issue I'm aware of
<Chipaca> mardy: sure. where will the logs be?
<Chipaca> mardy: ?
<mardy> Chipaca: ops,sorry: /var/log/syslog
<Chipaca> mardy: https://pastebin.canonical.com/122919/
<mardy> Chipaca: yep, same issue; feel free to delete and recreate the account
<Chipaca> mardy: what's the upgrade story?
<Chipaca> mardy: ie people getting rtm, then upgrading to something else
<cwayne1> Elleo: heya, saw the updates for cutespotify, awesome stuff! are you planning on enabling ur dispatching even if the app is closed, or is that a limitation of urldispatcher?
<Chipaca> mardy: and if I create it on devel, will it work on rtm?
<mardy> Chipaca: yes
<mardy> Chipaca: as for the upgrade story, I'm not sure; we might be able to ship a session-migration script to update the ACL
<Chipaca> mardy: dobey: can confirm recreating the account in devel made the auth'er (and so push) work again
<Elleo> cwayne1: yeah, just need to figure out why it doesn't work correctly
<cwayne1> Elleo: awesome, so what form should the url be in?
<cwayne1> ill update my scope and see if i can get it working :)
<Elleo> cwayne1: spotify:track:blah
<cwayne1> where blah is the spotify id?
<Elleo> yep
<cwayne1> awesome, thanks!  ill try and get some time today and I'll let you know how it goes :)
<Elleo> cool :)
<dobey> Chipaca: cool
<saidinesh5> Elleo: here?
<Nirgali42> good afternoon
<Nirgali42> I was just looking to get a nexus 10 and someone said support was dropped in jan 2014, but I'm seeing conflicting information on the site. Can someone confirm if I go out and pick up a nexus 10 that I can install touch on it, get java 7 installed, and run java apps?
<Nirgali42> alrightythen
<dobey> what is the package name for the file manager app?
<dobey> Nirgali42: support for the 2012 nexus 7 was dropped, not the nexus 10
<dobey> Nirgali42: java is not part of the system image though, so making the system writable to install java and run java apps in the typical way on ubuntu, will break system image upgrades
<dobey> also, i'm not sure what the support is like for running java on mir
<taiebot> Hi during the two weeks of break i had a very weird bug on the stable channel on a nexus 4. Not sure if this happened to anyone but there was some ripple effect when scrolling down at the bottom of the screen where the keyboard normally appears. I did not find a way to reproduce it but that's a watchout. It happened to me twice
<ahayzen> taiebot, like this bug 1383745 ?
<ubot5> bug 1383745 in Mir "[mako] screen corruption/tearing after using the device for medium durations" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1383745
<taiebot> ahayzen: no not like that the bottom of the screen was corrupted on any scroll. It looked like distortion or ripple. Weird stuff it happens where the keyboard usually appears
<ahayzen> taiebot, i've seen it happen at the bottom/top/middle of the screen
<ahayzen> taiebot, just that video was when it was in the middle
<taiebot> ahayzen: i suppose it is linked as my phone was up for almost a week.
<taiebot> I have not seen this rumour here so posting it http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/meizu-m1-note-go-open-source-2015-smartphone-expected-feature-ubuntu-touch-be-launched-ces-1481695
<aquarius> how do I list available channels for ubuntu-device-flash?
<aquarius> "ubuntu-device-flash --list-channels", as https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/image-channels/ says, doesn't work: DEPRECATED: Implicit 'touch' subcommand assumed
<aquarius> unknown flag `list-channels'
<ahoneybun> aquarius, ubuntu-device-flash --list-channels
<aquarius> I don't know whether I have a newer version of u-d-f or an older version
<ahoneybun> ? weird
<aquarius> indeed, hence asking for help :)
<ahoneybun> ubuntu-device-flash --list-channels works for me
<ahoneybun> on 14.10
<aquarius> apt-cache policy ubuntu-device-flash says Installed: 0.4+15.04.20141125-0ubuntu1
<ahoneybun>  0.4+14.10.20141002-0ubuntu1 0
<ahoneybun> you are on 15.04?
<aquarius> huh
<aquarius> Nope. I'm on 14.04
<ahoneybun> odd
<aquarius> but I have PPAs enabled to do development with.
<ahoneybun> oh I see
<aquarius> mhall119, do you know abot this stuff?
<ahoneybun> popey, might know too
<popey> aquarius: buntu-device-flash query --list-channels --device=krillin
<popey> er
<popey> ubuntu-device-flash query --list-channels --device=krillin
<ahoneybun> what is the ppa?
<popey>   Installed: 0.4+15.04.20141125-0ubuntu1
<popey> is what I have
<popey> and that works, will had the same issue earlier
<aquarius> interesting. https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/image-channels/ may need updating then
<aquarius> a nexus 4 is mako, right? not occam?
<ahoneybun> that works on 14.10 with no ppas
<ahoneybun> occam and mako
<ahoneybun> both
<ahoneybun> aquarius, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/devices/
<aquarius> ahoneybun, ah, I meant in the context of the --device switch to u-d-f as per popey's correct instructions :)
<ahoneybun> what is krillin?
<aquarius> bq device, I think
<ahoneybun> I see we know your secrets popey
<aquarius> next question: what's the most up-to-date channel? :)
<aquarius> ubuntu-touch/vivid?
<ahoneybun> aquarius, devel-proposed
<ahoneybun> so vivid-proposed for this cycle
<aquarius> is devel-proposed stable enough to use?
<aquarius> or is it basically trunk?
<ahoneybun> devel is pretty decent RTM is for stable
<aquarius> I don't know if the ci train runs for devel-proposed
<aquarius> ok, wicked
<popey> i use ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09-proposed
<aquarius> that makes sense, actually
 * ahoneybun knows nothing about ci train
<aquarius> popey, that's not available for mako :(
<popey> well, i dont think we have built any images for a while
<popey> so devel-proposed = devel right now i think
<popey> ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed (alias to ubuntu-touch/vivid-proposed)
<aquarius> ah, ok
<aquarius> so I may as well just go with devel-proposed then, cool
<popey> I'd ask mhall119, although he usually doesn't use proposed
<popey> yeah
<aquarius> or devel
<ahoneybun> yea popey aquarius devel is on Image 1 right now
<aquarius> I have my nexus 4 back, finally
<aquarius> so am putting ubuntu on it again :)
<ahoneybun> aquarius, last image for devel was built on 12 01 14
<aquarius> popey, what's the install command now?
<popey> alan@deep-thought ~> ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09-proposed
<popey> i did that earlier
<aquarius> "ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=devel-proposed"?
<aquarius> ahm, cool
<aquarius> I dont need --bootstrap any more?
<popey> only if you're on android
<aquarius> ah I am on android.
<popey> you do then
<aquarius> will use it :)
<popey> put phone in recovery
<popey> then do it
<popey> i think
<ahoneybun> bootloader :)
<aquarius> winner.
<aquarius> now downloading and then will install, hooray
<aquarius> cheers popey
<popey> np
<aquarius> am installing devel-proposed, for the hell of it :)
<popey> \o/
<popey> Live a little
<aquarius> YOLO
<popey> aquarius: btw sweedish meatballs from gousto was delish
<aquarius> never had them!
<aquarius> all the meals I had from gousto for the first few weeks are on http://fifteenminutemealer.tumblr.com/
<aquarius> after that there was a week or two when I was uninspired and so didn't write them up and then cancelled
<popey> I've had a bunch of really good ones
<mhall119> popey: I'm actually still on RTM
<popey> ah
<aquarius> Jamie Oliver swedish meatballs: http://fifteenminutemealer.tumblr.com/post/41362791979/swedish-meatballs . Some other person published the recipe http://www.anexpatcooks.com/recipe/jamie-olivers-15-minute-swedish
<popey> no, these were in a creamy sauce with lots of dill
<aquarius> ah, gotcha
<popey> much nicer
<popey> with mash and green beans
<popey> would eat again.
<aquarius> ooh nice spinny ubuntu install/boot logo
<aquarius> and it is installed! nice.
<aquarius> ooh, dash crashed and then whole phone restarted.
<aquarius> back to it pretty quick though :)
<ahoneybun> what is the command to manually install a click package on a device?
<popey> pkcon install-local --allow-untrusted foo.click
<ahayzen> ahoneybun, adb shell pkcon install-local --allow-untrusted /tmp/my.click
<popey> BOOM! Beat ya!
<ahayzen> popey, damn u :P
<popey> :D
<ahoneybun> lol
 * popey dances
<ahoneybun> wait
<ahoneybun> how do you do that popey if your in the devices file system?
<ahayzen> ahoneybun, you run it on the device?
<ahoneybun> wait
<ahayzen> ahoneybun, you have pushed the click across first right? ...  adb push /my/local/click /device/location ?
<ahoneybun> that is to install on the phone/tablet no?
<ahoneybun> no
<ahayzen> ahoneybun, yeah
<popey> oh
<popey> so:-
<popey> adb push foo.click /tmp
<popey> phablet-shell
<popey> pkcon install-local --allow-untrusted /tmp/foo.click
<popey> job done
<ahayzen> :)
 * ahoneybun is confused
<popey> you want to install a click on a phone?
<ahoneybun> yea the SDK is shoting errors
<ahoneybun> shooting
<popey> ok, find the click package, push to phone, install on phone
<popey> as above
<ahoneybun> but I need to know where the device i
<ahoneybun> as in on the computer
<ahoneybun> /mnt/ and so on
<popey> no
<popey> is it plugged in via usb?
<ahoneybun> yea
<popey> do you know where the click is on your pc?
<ahoneybun> yea
<popey> ok, so open a terminal...
<popey> cd ~/wherever
<popey> adb push foo.click /tmp
<popey> that will push the click down the usb cable to the phone
<popey> to /tmp specifically
<ahoneybun> ........
<popey> what is not clear?
<ahoneybun> where to cd to
<popey> 22:57:47 < popey> do you know where the click is on your pc?
<popey> there
<ahoneybun> I don't know where the device is mounted
<popey> no
<popey> stop thinking about the device
<popey> you dont need to worry about that
<popey> go to the directory where the click is on your pc
<ahoneybun> adb push /my/local/click /device/location ???
<popey> no
<popey> adb push /my/local/click /tmp
<ahayzen> oh god i've confused him....
<popey> adb push will push files to the device
<popey> the first parameter is what you want to push
<popey> in this case that's the click package
<popey> the next parameter is the place on the device you want to push it to
<popey> in this case /tmp (on the device)
<popey> it will send the click package (or whatever file you specify) down the usb cable and it will end up in /tmp on the phone
<popey> make sense?
<popey> you do not need to worry about where on the filesystem the phone is mounted, because it doesn't work like that
<popey> the adb program on your desktop talks to the adb program on the phone
<popey> over usb
<ahoneybun> I got it
<ahoneybun> but
<ahoneybun> now my app installed from the store is not launching
<ahayzen> ahoneybun, refresh the apps scope by pulling down from the top
<popey> hang on
<popey> one thing at a time
<popey> did you push to the device and install it?
<ahoneybun> uninstalled the store version and now I have the one I pushed local
<ahoneybun> and it does not launch
<ahoneybun> goes to splash screen and then back to the dash
<popey> did you do as ahayzen says and pull down to refresh the app scope?
<ahoneybun> yes I see the icon
<popey> did you pull down though?
<popey> (you need to)
<ahoneybun> yes yes
<ahoneybun> rebooting
<popey> bah
<ahoneybun> and the name change on the click package did not work as well
<ahoneybun> trying to change it from UbuntuBeginner to uBeginner
<ahoneybun> oh wait
<popey> you need to change it in the sdk before you build the click
<ahoneybun> yea I know
<popey> dont just rename the click package
<popey> ok
<dobey> popey: you build the filemanager click packages?
<popey> I try not to
<popey> but yes
<dobey> heh
<popey> we usually build them in jenkins
<ahoneybun> ok popey fixed the name and the splash screen works but still not launching all the way
<dobey> i'm just wondering how BZR_REVNO gets set in the cmake
<dobey> i don't see it being set with the actual revno in CMakeListst.txt
<popey> ahoneybun: check logs in ~/.cache/upstart
<popey> it's in manifest.json.in isnt it?
<dobey> popey: it's not defined there, but it's used there
<popey> yeah, it gets set to "latest" if you build it locally
<popey> (one reason why I build in jenkins)
<dobey> oh, is it some magic thing that gets passed to cmake in jenkins?
<popey> possibly
<dobey> (do you have a link to a jenkins build log for it?)
<popey> sure
<ahoneybun> popey, you can't just cat them?
<popey> ahoneybun: you can
<ahoneybun> I see the log but when I cat it says no such file
<popey> dobey: http://s-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/click/job/filemanager-app-click/lastSuccessfulBuild/console
<popey> ahoneybun: typo?
<ahoneybun> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ cat application-click-com.ubuntu.developer.aaronhoneycutt.ubuntubeginner_UbuntuBeginner_1.8.log
<ahoneybun> cat: application-click-com.ubuntu.developer.aaronhoneycutt.ubuntubeginner_UbuntuBeginner_1.8.log: No such file or directory
<popey> you're not in the right directory
<ahoneybun> I can't use tab to auto complete for some reason
<ahoneybun> I have to be in the dir?
<popey> cd ~/.cache/upstart
<popey> yes
<dobey> oh that isn't on the public jenkins yet (or at all)
<popey> correct
<popey> $ bzr revision-info -d /var/lib/jenkins/slaves/cyclops-node08/workspace/filemanager-app-click
<popey> ++ bzr revno out/trunk_dir
<popey> + bzr_revno=363
<popey> that kinda thing
<ahoneybun> popey, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9690171/
<ahoneybun> omg
<ahayzen> ahoneybun, something wrong with your QML
<popey> ahoneybun: error in your code
<popey> PICNIC
<ahoneybun> why build it at all
<popey> it doesn't check the qml on build
<dobey> and then cmake -DBZR_REVNO=$$bzr_revno I presume?
<popey> + cmake ../trunk_dir -DINSTALL_TESTS=off -DCLICK_MODE=on -DBZR_REVNO=363
<dobey> ok
<dobey> thanks popey
<popey> no problem
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9690174/
<popey> probably should have just done that â»
<dobey> :)
<kgunn> popey: hey, venturing into app space, pulled an existing project source...using qtcreator/ubuntusdk, it built ok, but not running
<ahoneybun> popey, all good, working new splash screen, fixed the name :)
<kgunn> popey: what should the executable path be ?
<popey> ahoneybun: hurrah
<popey> kgunn: que?
<ahoneybun> thanks popey!
<popey> np
<popey> kgunn: which project OOI?
<kgunn> popey: ubible
<popey> in lp?
<kgunn> no...it's from github
<popey> kgunn: stupid question, can you not click the icon?
<popey> ok
<kgunn> popey: icon as in? the little green triangle meaning run ?...i can but it says
<kgunn> Starting /home/kg/workspace/build-uBible-Desktop-Default/app/ubible.desktop...
<kgunn> Failed to start program. Path or permissions wrong?
<kgunn> /home/kg/workspace/build-uBible-Desktop-Default/app/ubible.desktop exited with code -1
<kgunn> popey: so wondering...is the desktop file what should be in the exe path ?
<dobey> you can't execute a .desktop file
<popey> uh
<ahoneybun> popey, is the source available for the UI Showcase?
<kgunn> that is whats there atm
<ahoneybun> stupid me
<popey> https://github.com/uBible/uBible ?
<kgunn> popey: yep
 * popey clones
<kgunn> dobey: so it should be .... ?
<popey> kgunn: you want to run this on desktop or device?
<kgunn> popey: i should admit, i did a vivid update sort of in between first attempts and now
<popey> heh
<popey> Ruh-Roh
<kgunn> popey: was just trying to run on desktop
<kgunn> popey: ... :) yeah, it couldn't find some header, and i  was like "doh, need to upgrade"
<ahayzen> is it not just the "run" part of the cmake? https://github.com/uBible/uBible/blob/master/CMakeLists.txt#L81
<dobey> not sure what you mean by exe path exactly
<popey> pass, sorry.
<dobey> the Exec line in the .desktop file?
<kgunn> dobey: under project->desktop->run tab..there's a field under "run" called "executable"....do i just leave it blank
<kgunn> popey: but it should be possible, assumiing i didn't screw something to simply build/run on desktop
<popey> assuming it works
<kgunn> right
<kgunn> kk
<kgunn> ahayzen: just now noticed your post, thanks
<ahayzen> kgunn, no problem, i assume if you run that it might work
<dobey> oh i don't know where that tab is.
<kgunn> cool, just trying to learn
<ahoneybun> popey, if I want to have each tab have it's own qml file how to I load it into the tab
<ahoneybun> ?
<kgunn> ...progress, still failed...but more sensible
<ahoneybun> popey, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9690234/
<JoannisO> Do any other Nexus 5 users have problems with torch apps?
<dobey> i haven't tried any
<popey> ok, just tested utorch on krillin and it works
<dobey> just tested torch on n5 and it doesn't work
<dobey> n5 is special though
<JoannisO> I'm curious because the camera app does manage to use the LED when recording a video.
<dobey> i'll try utorch instead (which does work on my n4)
<dobey> and it doesn't work on n5
<dobey> not sure why
<popey> iBelieve: !
<dobey> probably related to why taking pictures with flash on results in way overexposed pictures
<popey> kgunn: was playing with ubible just now... kgunn iBelieve is the author â»
<popey> (also, happy new year)
<iBelieve> Hey popey
<kgunn> you as well
<iBelieve> Yes, Iâm one of the two main others of uBible
<iBelieve> ** authors
<popey> there we go, opportune moment to arrive
<JoannisO> Aren't you the guy from quartzOS/quantumOS?
<iBelieve> JoannisO: Yes I am :)
<dobey> i thought moses and peter were the two main authors :P
<dobey> gah, click
<dobey> the manifest.json is too in the .ubuntu-sdk-deploy directory; stop lying and just build the thingf
<iBelieve> dobey: :)
<popey> lulz
<kgunn> iBelieve: hey so, i don't really know my way round qtcreator and apps per se...just picked something i was interested in to learn a little
<kgunn> so i just (re)cloned my fork and followed the readme
<kgunn> but...it's whining about building for "desktop<default>"
<kgunn> if i target it to ubuntu-vivide-i386 it seems happy
<iBelieve> kgunn: I havenât worked on uBible in a while, so I have no idea if it works with the latest Ubuntu SDK or not.
<kgunn> ah-ha...that was my next ques :)
<kgunn> ok...i'll keep pokin'
<kgunn> makes me learn
<iBelieve> kgunn: What about running cmake directly from the command line?
<kgunn> one sec
#ubuntu-touch 2015-01-08
<kgunn> bah...forgot to init submodules
<kgunn> iBelieve: seems to have built ok...but running err's on https://pastebin.canonical.com/122949/
<dcbartlett> anyone here have any experience with the nexus 5
<JoannisO> dcbartlett: I've got a bit of experience. I haven't been using it for long though.
<dcbartlett> were you able to make phone calls with it?
<JoannisO> Yup
<dcbartlett> hum, mine isn't making any calls with tmobile
<JoannisO> I've only been called though. Where did it go wrong?
<dcbartlett> i dial the number and hit the green call button
<dcbartlett> it sits there for a bit
<JoannisO> And then nothing?
<dcbartlett> and then it says "call failed \n calling"
<dcbartlett> and then drops back to the dialpad
<iBelieve> kgunn: I donât have access to the pastebin
<JoannisO> Well... It's midnight over here so I can't help you any further. I can't call people really.
<dcbartlett> ok
<c0nd0r> hey will https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/i9505 for the galaxy s4
<c0nd0r> work on a SGH - 1337m
<c0nd0r> android version 4.4.7
<c0nd0r> android version 4.4.2 sorry
<c0nd0r> baseband version 1337MVLUFLN12
<Dreamer_> Hello
<Dreamer_> any body here?
<Dreamer_> am asking about the recommended phone device for ubuntu tocu
<Dreamer_> any body could help?
<uhhimhere> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmoGanNI-fw
<uhhimhere> one step closer to multiboot
<bubbasaures> if I could only read french
<uhhimhere> peppe le phew
<jrg> is there a reason this doesn't work? ...
<jrg> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/daily-preinstalled/current/quantal-preinstalled-phablet-armhf.zip
<jrg> i was trying to install ubuntu touch on a tf101
<lotuspsychje> !devices | jrg
<ubot5> jrg: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<jrg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/tf101#link_to_images
<jrg> that is the page directing me to the broken link above
<jrg> lotuspsychje: yah. that page directs me to the wiki page i listed above which directs me to a site which does't have the file necessary for installation
<jrg> i was just curious if this is simply unsupported... it says "work in progress" but the link to get the second file is broken
<jrg> i'm guessing that quantel was replaced with saucy?
<jrg> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/daily-preinstalled/current/saucy-preinstalled-phablet-armhf.zip
<jrg> that file is there which looks similar but i am not sure if the kernel works
<lotuspsychje> maybe check the XDA forums mate
<lotuspsychje> what brand is your device?
<jrg> asus tf101/transfrmer
<jrg> transformer
<jrg> just figured it would be safer to use the ubuntu wiki vs xda
<jrg> since there is a device page for it
<jrg> i guess i can try it and if it breaks i can just re-install and recover android from recovery
<jrg> i dug this thing out of a drawer after being in there for a year and a half anyways
<jrg> seems like that page needs to be updated tho heh
<lotuspsychje> well i only ested for nexus7 so dont know for your asus
<jrg> np heh
<jrg> ah well... let me try it out heh
<jrg> well... that didn't work heh
<jrg> it just went into a reboot loop
<lotuspsychje> think the XDA forums is your best bet
<lotuspsychje> other devices then nexus need to be ported
<jrg> yeah they had other methods but i was hoping to use the actual offical ubuntu wiki page methods
<jrg> and i only found methods for full ubuntu installs and those didn't work out too well
<lotuspsychje> i bought me a nexus7 specially for touch
<lotuspsychje> because its most supported devices
<jrg> lotuspsychje: yah but if you try to ebay a nexus they are hyperinflated
<jrg> because it supports ubuntu ;)
<jrg> i'm not paying $300 for a nexus4
<lotuspsychje> well the 2013 wifi nexus cost 269
<lotuspsychje> so its not a bad deal
<lotuspsychje> and BQ ubuntu phones are comming soon also
<jrg> see what i mean? in reality if that thing only ran android it would probably cost $100 or less
<jrg> yah
<jrg> i'll wait on that
<jrg> they are supposed to have a dock as well
<jrg> aren't they?
<lotuspsychje> not sure how it will turn out
<jrg> i wouldn't mind that
<lotuspsychje> but im sure it will influence the world on ubuntu touch
<lotuspsychje> other companys will follow
<jrg> if it's even anything close to maemo it is win ;)
<jrg> maemo was great
<jrg> i miss maemo.. probably the closest the world ever came to a pocket linux phonelike device :/
<Nirgali42> hey, I just ran through the process installing on my nexus 10
<Nirgali42> it reboots to ubuntu loading screen, spins for a while, then reboots to android loading screen and sticks
<Nirgali42> same as http://askubuntu.com/questions/540244/while-intalling-ubuntu-on-nexus-10-recovery-rom-boots-back-into-android-not-ubun
<Nirgali42> no solution was provided
<Nirgali42> I ran udbflash --bootstrap=true --channel="trusty"
<Nirgali42> 2015/01/08 02:18:21 Rebooting into recovery to flash
<Nirgali42> I'm not really getting anywhere with this
<Nirgali42> any thoughts?
<duflu> Nirgali42: I find sometimes it's more reliable holding the power button till it's fully off, and then starting in fastboot mode (turn on while holding both vol up and down)
<Nirgali42> okay but in fastboot mode what next?
<Nirgali42> I already went through the flash process... I thought
<Nirgali42> duflu: how do I make it boot to ubuntu?
<Nirgali42> I can get to recovery mode, which is ubuntu recovery
<Nirgali42> but not sure where to go from there
<duflu> Nirgali42: The flash process will work more reliably if you start in fastboot. If it has worked at all, it will enter Ubuntu itself
<Nirgali42> udbflash --bootstrap=true --channel="trusty"
<Nirgali42> is what I ran
<Nirgali42> from fastboot
<Nirgali42> it does Rebooting into recovery to flash
<Nirgali42> then reboots to ubuntu spin loading screen
<duflu> Nirgali42: Oh yeah, I think there are some USB cable reliability issues that make it mysteriously less reliable on some devices (Nexus 10, Nexus 7). Try a different cable or port
<Nirgali42> sits there for a while, then reboots again to android
<duflu> Nirgali42: Does the recovery screen show device is "unlocked"?
<Nirgali42> yes
<Nirgali42> Done pushing /Users/dmart/.cache/ubuntuimages/ubuntu-touch/trusty/manta/version-303.tar.xz.asc to device
<Nirgali42> et cetera
<Nirgali42> it does all that, but I try now agian with better cable
<duflu> Nirgali42: Don't know then. It sounds like your cabling is fine
<Nirgali42> okay it goes "2015/01/08 02:35:15 Rebooting into recovery to flash"
<Nirgali42> reboots
<Nirgali42> shows spinning ubuntu
<Nirgali42> always have bad luck
<Nirgali42> yup, same thing
<Nirgali42> bed time
<dholbach> good morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Joy Germ Day! :-D
<aquarius> JamesTait, do you know enough about the rnr server to answer setup questions about it? rgallina isn't online
<aquarius> and nor is noodles
<JamesTait> aquarius, I've never installed it, but I might still be able to help. fgallina won't be around for about 3 hours, and noodles is in Oz now, so won't be around for about 10.
<aquarius> JamesTait, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~rnr-developers/rnr-server/trunk/view/head:/README says that I should enable the PPA and then install rnr-server-{developer-,}dependencies. There is no rnr-server-developer-dependencies afaict, and the PPA (https://launchpad.net/~ubuntuone/+archive/ubuntu/rnr-dependencies) only contains precise files?
<aquarius> ah, no, I lie, there is a developer dependencies deb
<aquarius> but they're all only for precise. Are you deployed on precise still?
<JamesTait> aquarius, AFAIK, rnr is still running on Precise (because it's the old Reviews service from the old Software Centre).
<aquarius> k
<JamesTait> So, LXC ftw. :)
<aquarius> I think the debs in the PPA are just virtual packages
<aquarius> so I might see if it runs on 14.04
<aquarius> hm, many dependencies
<aquarius> maybe I do need an lxc after all :)
<JamesTait> aquarius, that tends to be the way we do it. I currently have CPI and PKGME running on my host, and U1 Servers and SCA running in LXCs, plus an LXC for Snappy stuff, all on my laptop.
<JamesTait> It keeps me nice and warm. ;)
<aquarius> I bet :)
<aquarius> JamesTait, can I create an i386 lxc container on an amd64 machine?
<JamesTait> aquarius, I'm not 100% sure, but I think the answer is no.
<aquarius> hm
<aquarius> so: the packages in the rnr PPA are i386.
<aquarius> my machine is amd64.
<JamesTait> That might not be a problem with multiarch.
<aquarius> aaaaah
<aquarius> that'd be the answer then
<JamesTait> It might need soe config, I'm not sure, but I know I have i386 packages installed on my amd64 machine.
<aquarius> right, creating an amd64 lxc :)
<aquarius> I love how https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/lxc.html doesn't actually explain how to start the lxc container :)
<nhaines> aquarius: that's left as an exercise for the reader.  :)
<JamesTait> aquarius, you got it though, right?
<aquarius> no. :(
<aquarius> $ lxc-start -n rnr
<aquarius> lxc_container: call to cgmanager_create_sync failed: invalid request
<aquarius> lxc_container: Failed to create hugetlb:rnr
<aquarius> lxc_container: Error creating cgroup hugetlb:rnr
<aquarius> lxc_container: failed creating cgroups
<aquarius> lxc_container: failed to spawn 'rnr'
<aquarius> lxc_container: The container failed to start.
<aquarius> lxc_container: Additional information can be obtained by setting the --logfile and --logpriority options.
<JamesTait> aquarius, sudo lxc-start -n $CONTAINER_NAME
<JamesTait> aquarius, I usually start it detatched (-d) and ssh into it, but that's entirely optional.
<aquarius> problem is https://github.com/lxc/lxc/issues/206 afaict, but stgraber said he fixed it on 14.04 9 months ago :(
<aquarius> stgraber, ping. :)
<aquarius> stgraber, unping. Got it to work after reading a bunch of bugs and mailig list posts.
<iMhack> Hello
<aquarius> JamesTait, am I thick? what's the user account in my newly created lxc?
<JamesTait> aquarius, I think it depends how you created it. Did you use the option to copy your host user and bind mount the home?
<aquarius> nope
<aquarius> https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/lxc.html doesn't mention anything about that.
<aquarius> unless I missed something obvious.
<aquarius> I just created an unprivileged contanier.
<iMhack> Is Ubuntu Touch compatible with Onda v989 ?
<aquarius> !devices | iMhack
<ubot5> iMhack: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<JamesTait> aquarius, You can add it after the fact, if that's what you want to do.
<aquarius> JamesTait, that's what I don't know how to do :)
<JamesTait> aquarius, I just need to remember exacty how - there are a couple of lines to add to the lxc config, IIRC.
<JamesTait> aquarius, just checking for you, 1 mo.
<iMhack> !devices
<ubot5> You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<JamesTait> aquarius, /var/lib/lxc/rnr/fstab needs to contain something like: ```/home/aquarius home/aquarius none bind 0 0``` and then you just need to copy your passwd line into /var/lib/lxc/rnr/rootfs/etc/passwd and the same for /etc/group I think.
<iMhack> Onda v989 is not in the list. But it have an Allwinner A80T processor, so no UEFI problem.
<JamesTait> aquarius, any luck? Also, I noticed the "-a amd64" parameter in the comments in /var/lib/lxc/foo/config so maybe i386 is possible.
<iMhack> Is there a place to ask for some ubuntu touch port ?
<JamesTait> aquarius, possibly with `lxc-create -n rnr -- -a i386`
<lotuspsychje> iMhack: the XDA forums might be able to help
<iMhack> lotuspsychje: Thanks, I'll check it.
<aquarius> JamesTait, cor, that's a faff and no mistake
<aquarius> I would expect lxc-attach to give me a shell in the container but it doesn't work :(
<JamesTait> aquarius, what error do you get?
<aquarius> $ lxc-attach -n rnr
<aquarius> lxc_container: call to cgmanager_move_pid_abs_sync failed: invalid request
<aquarius> lxc_container: Failed to enter group /aquarius/rnr
<aquarius> lxc_container: error communicating with child process
<JamesTait> aquarius, WFM with sudo (I get a root shell), but that's not helpful to you. ;)
 * aquarius grins
<aquarius> you've set up privileged containers
<aquarius> I hate doing things with sudo. So I have user container
<JamesTait> aquarius, ah, well, there's your problem - too smart for your own good. :-P
<aquarius> JamesTait, heh :)
<aquarius> maybe I can get stgraber's attention and ask for help; he'll know :)
<mardy> bzoltan: hi! About bug 1393697
<ubot5> bug 1393697 in click (Ubuntu) "Cross qmake to the chroots" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1393697
<mardy> bzoltan: all seems to work fine, but the "lupdate" tools won't run:
<bzoltan> mardy:  what fails there?
<mardy> bzoltan: lupdate: could not find a Qt installation of ''
<mardy> bzoltan: am I missing some package in the chroot?
<mardy> bzoltan: If I run "QT_SELECT=5 lupdate" in the chroot, then I see the normal output of the tool
<bzoltan> mardy:  most likely the intltool ... why do not you create a fresh chroot?
<mardy> bzoltan: it's a fresh chroot
<bzoltan> mardy:  15.04?
<mardy> bzoltan: yep, from the PPA (but on Trusty)
<bzoltan> mardy:  the click is the same on T
<mardy> bzoltan: if I comment out the lupdate target from the qmake file, then the project builds fine
<bzoltan> zbenjamin:  ^ can you say something?
<zbenjamin> bzoltan: something :)
<bzoltan> zbenjamin:  hkhm ... thank you, thank you a lot
<zbenjamin> bzoltan: lupdate is the qt specific translation tool
<zbenjamin> bzoltan: seems like the qt_chooser fails
<zbenjamin> mardy: if your run lupdate without te QT_SELECT set i suppose you get the same?
<mardy> zbenjamin: yep
<mardy> zbenjamin: qttools-dev5-tools is installed in the chroot (the amd64 version not the armhf one)
<Chipaca> bzoltan: in a qml touch app, is there anywhere you can get the application's id from?
<Chipaca> bzoltan: the misnamed "applicationName" has the package name, not the application name nor the application id
<kalikiana_> Chipaca: you set it in the MainView
<Chipaca> kalikiana_: no, you set applicationName, not the application id
<Chipaca> kalikiana_: unless i've got something wrong :)
<kalikiana_> at do you mean by that exactly?
<bzoltan> Chipaca: The APP_ID variable is obsolete for long time
<Chipaca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppStore/Interfaces/ApplicationId
<Chipaca> the application id; either package_appname or package_version_appname would do
<bzoltan> Chipaca:  why do you need that?
<Chipaca> bzoltan: for push
<kalikiana_> mmmmm overloading terms is not helpful; APP_ID never included the version
<Chipaca> i might've put version in the wrong place, above :) anyway
<kalikiana_> Chipaca: until now every single use case involving an id for an app needed APP_ID, if anything else was needed apparmor, mir or whatever would figure out the rest if needed
<kalikiana_> is it really intended to change this?
<Chipaca> i'm not sure what you mean
<kalikiana_> it's the first time there seems to be a need to know that string in an app
<Chipaca> i don't know what's in APP_ID; i guess because it was obsolete nobody mentioned it when we asked about application ids way back
<kalikiana_> that I'm aware of anyway
<Chipaca> kalikiana_: right now a developer needs to include it by hand in the push qml thing, but it's errorprone (and devs don't really understand them) so i'd rather avoid that if we have it already elsewhere
<bzoltan> Chipaca: why the app_id is required for push? Who is doing the other side? I guess they can tell where to get the ID what they need.
<Chipaca> bzoltan: which "other side"?
<Chipaca> bzoltan: you mean the c++ side?
<zbenjamin> Chipaca: do you have some docs about that?
<bzoltan> Chipaca:  for example yes ... I mean whoever said that you need an ID should be able ti tell you where to get it from... I guess :)
<Chipaca> zbenjamin: yes. It got moved, give me a minute (ralsina_ is digging)
<ralsina_> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/platform/guides/push-notifications-client-guide/
<Chipaca> zbenjamin: search for Ubuntu.PushNotifications in there
<Chipaca> ralsina_: i had it, i was just searching wrong (moar coffee maybe?)
<Chipaca> ralsina_: thanks :)
<ralsina_> :-)
<Chipaca> bzoltan: um. I own the whole stack of this, and I don't know where to get it from from within qml, which is why i'm asking you
<Chipaca> bzoltan: the point being, if it already is in qml, i don't need to go digging through click to figure it out
<Chipaca> but even digging through click would be better than asking the user to type it out, as we do now
<Chipaca> in fact I'd suggest you do something similar for MainView.applicationName too
<Chipaca> it's just asking for pain, forcing the user to specify the same information over and over
<Chipaca> even some of our finest minds, and aquarius, get these things out of sync -- and then things almost-but-not-quite work, and debugging is a complete pain, and there's practically no warnings about it anywhere AFAICT
<aquarius> it's nice to be in the same sentence as fine minds.
<aquarius> I can only add my (considerable) weight to Chipaca's point here, bzoltan -- if i have to specify an appid (whether com.canonical.foo or com.canonical.foo_Foo for multi-app click packages), all that can happen is that I get it wrong and then things subtly weirdly don't work. FInd out some way to derive that information and do it in the OS: don't make me type in a thing which you ought to already know.
<kalikiana_> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/platform/guides/push-notifications-client-guide/ mentions appId: "com.ubuntu.developer.push.hello_hello" that's really just applicationName with a "_hello" added
<Chipaca> kalikiana_: yes, that's ${packagename}_${appname}
<bzoltan> aquarius:  just to be clear ... _I_ do not make you type anything
 * aquarius grins
<Chipaca> bzoltan: not even MainView.applicationName?
<Chipaca> bzoltan: i figured you own that one :)
 * Chipaca is probably wrong, and used to it
<aquarius> bzoltan, that's synecdoche, unless it's syllepsis. You're the SDK; you can hit people on the head until they do things right :)
<bzoltan> Chipaca:  I am the right dude, but I do not set the rules for push
<kalikiana_> aquarius: if applicationName can ever be automatic it'll be after we have mandatory systemd or upstart everywhere we have UITK
<Chipaca> bzoltan: right. push is me, and I'm going to make the appid optional one way or another. But the reasons why i'm going to do that apply as well to applicationName :)
<aquarius> kalikiana_, we do. You may say "no no you can run uitk apps on the desktop", to which I will say: that ability is meaningless, because you can't *give* someone a uitk app to run on the desktop, because click packages won't install on the desktop.
<kalikiana_> aquarius: they do :-)
<aquarius> only if you've got a mir desktop :)
<kalikiana_> no
<kalikiana_> I got them on unity7
<Chipaca> brb, do-system-upgrade over ssh is now telling me to restart the server
<aquarius> um. I was told in no uncertain terms that the security of a click package required Mir, and until that happened, no click packages on the desktop for anybody
<aquarius> is that incorrect, then? Can I now tell people that they can install my apps on their Ubuntu 14.04 desktop?
<kalikiana_> aquarius: the security drawbacks have not changed
<kalikiana_> but apps run, our uitk is aweseome
<aquarius> kalikiana_, how does an ordinary Ubuntu 14.04 desktop user install things from the click store?
<aquarius> I'm more than happy to add those instructions to my website.
<kalikiana_> they don't
 * Chipaca back
<Chipaca> did i miss anything? :)
<aquarius> kalikiana_, hence my point. They don't. So we have upstart running click packages everywhere meaningful there are click packages. :)
<Chipaca> bzoltan: anyway, i guess the conclusion about the application id is "nope, no way"?
<Chipaca> bzoltan: that is, there isn't any easy way from within qml to get the application id
<kalikiana_> aquarius: are you suggesting screw non-unity8 and therefore everyone running a stable de?
<kalikiana_> that seems a little bit premature at this point
<bzoltan> Chipaca: please correct me if I am wrong, but there is not such as app id in QML level .. we use the Mainview.applicationName and it is $appname.$developer
<bzoltan> Chipaca:  and yes, that is set by the application and yes it should be in sync with the manifest
<Chipaca> bzoltan: i *think* that was my question to you :)
<kalikiana_> Chipaca: there is no id outside of a click running within upstart - by extension it would be impossible to qmlscene foo.qml without setting it
<aquarius> kalikiana_, I am suggesting that you already *have* screwed those people! I can't install click packaged apps on my stable Ubuntu 14.04 desktop. Therefore, some super-techie-only way that it's possible for Ubuntu core developers to do that anyway should not be an important thing blocking the SDK working out appId for me.
<bzoltan> Chipaca:  Just I am a bit confused :) the application name is something what the developer sets .. it is not something what the store or the sdk or the shell assignes to the app... you the developer must set it
<Chipaca> kalikiana_: when you say "there is no id", what do you mean? Because there clearly is, as per the wiki page
<bzoltan> Chipaca:  So I wonder if it makes sense to have an API to read a property what is actually set by the app
<Chipaca> bzoltan: ah, MainView.applicationName does not have to be the package name?
<kalikiana_> Chipaca: the wiki pages describes a specification. same as a dbus service name. it won't exist until it is implemented somewhere :-)
<bzoltan> Chipaca: not anymore
<Chipaca> bzoltan: ah, ok then
<bzoltan> Chipaca: cool :) Sorry for the confusion
<Chipaca> kalikiana_: AFAIK click, url dispatcher, indicator-messages and push at least all use this specification
<Chipaca> the indicator a little indirectly tho
<kalikiana_> Chipaca: yes. *use*. think where it's coming from.
<Chipaca> kalikiana_: it's coming from the click package, if i understand your question
<Chipaca> kalikiana_: also i forgot to mention ubuntu-app-launch in that list :)
 * Chipaca purposely did not include upstart
<kalikiana_> Chipaca: exactly. that is the one I meant by "implemented".
<kalikiana_> now think how we run stuff like "qmlscene foo.qml" or "qmltestrunner tst_bar.qml" all over the place
<Chipaca> kalikiana_: where do we do that?
<kalikiana_> Chipaca: development mainly. autopilot. unit tests.
<Chipaca> kalikiana_: development of the platform, or of applications themselves?
<kalikiana_> Chipaca: both.
<kalikiana_> well, you can develop apps by exclusively testing them within a device but that kinda kills convergience
<Chipaca> hmm
<Chipaca> wouldn't qmltestrunner run after the click package has built?
<Chipaca> that is, don't you build the click package, install it, and run the tests?
<kalikiana_> oh, for apps, yes. I guess I was accidentally mostly thinking of platform dev then
<kalikiana_> toolkit, unity, etc don't run tests in click
<kalikiana_> ^^ qml unit tests
<Chipaca> kalikiana_: ok. I think i have a way forward; thank you.
<kalikiana_> \o/
<mardy> zbenjamin: about the lupdate issue, is it fine if I file a bug about it?
<zbenjamin> mardy: yeah , i do not know yet how fix it but feel free to do so
<mardy> zbenjamin: cool, will do
<mardy> zbenjamin: against "click"?
<dobey> Chipaca: i'd expect qmltestrunner to be unit tests and run during build. autopilot tests i'd expect to run the built/installed app and something you run after building/installing the click
<Chipaca> dobey: that's what *she* said!
<dobey> she == nessita? because it sounds like something she would say too :)
<willcooke> hi all, trying to use mirscreencast on my device, but just getting a static image of the apps scope and none of the action.  Can you tell me which socket I should point mirscreencast at?  Is it /run/mir_socket?
<pmcgowan> dobey, does payui have a .desktop file? wondering how it is delivered as click but does not show up as an installed app
<popey> willcooke: yes
<willcooke> popey, thx.  I wonder why I'm not getting any moving pictures then.
 * willcooke tries again
<dobey> pmcgowan: yes, but it is not an "app" it's a "pay-ui"
<pmcgowan> dobey, how does it prevent being seen as an app? can we do the same for mediaplayer?
<dobey> pmcgowan: it's not something that users should launch directly
<pmcgowan> right
<dobey> pmcgowan: it's a special hook for payment UIs; no you can't use the same method for media player
<pmcgowan> ah ok
<ybon> What is the up to date "usable" image on Nexus 4 nowadays?
<lotuspsychje> !devices
<ubot5> You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<mterry> kenvandine, poke about https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/ubuntu-system-settings/wizard-introspection-rtm/+merge/243852  -- rhuddie would like to see that wind it's way to landing
<dobey> ybon: "stable" channel
<ybon> more up to date than rtm?
<kenvandine> mterry, we'll take a look
<mterry> kenvandine, thanks!
<dobey> ybon: stable is rtm
<ybon> oh ok, so I guess I'm still up to date, thanks :)
<ybon> (I'm running rtm)
<mardy> jdstrand: ping
<jdstrand> mardy: hey
<mardy> jdstrand: so, I'm playing with the account plugin confinement, and I found an issue which I didn't think of:
<mardy> jdstrand: the OAuth-based plugins open a webview, and set a dataLocation of ~/.cache/online-accounts-ui/id-<n>/
<mardy> jdstrand: that's for the cookies
<mardy> jdstrand: I wouldn't like to open up the whole ~/.cache/online-accounts-ui/ for the plugins, because they could steal each other's cookies
<mardy> jdstrand: is it possible to tell apparmor that mkdir is allowed in that directory, and then any read/write access is allowed in the newly created dir?
<jdstrand> you mean:
<jdstrand> owner @{HOME}/.cache/online-accounts-ui/id-<n>/ w,
<jdstrand> owner @{HOME}/.cache/online-accounts-ui/id-<n>/<something specific> rw,
<jdstrand> ?
<jdstrand> the answer is 'yes we can allow mkdir ('w' on a dir/)' and then other access to files in that dir or elsewhere
<jdstrand> '
<lotuspsychje> wich version are you guys working so hard on? RTM?
<mardy> jdstrand: more like "owner @{HOME}/.cache/online-accounts-ui/ w", because the account plugin must create the "id-<n>" directory in there
<mardy> jdstrand: but the problem is that only the account plugin knows the value of "<n>" in "id-<n>"
<jdstrand> mardy: apparmor works differently than you expect here
<jdstrand> mardy: with apparmor, you give write access to the actual directory being created, not the parent
<dobey> Tassadar: hi. looks like hammerhead builds are behind now. build failling maybe?
<jdstrand> mardy: DAC (ie traditional unix permissions) handles the parent dir
<kenvandine> mandel, did you make progress on that updates pause fix?
<Nirgali42> morning
<jdstrand> mardy: 'r' would be needed on the parent though
<jdstrand> mardy: so we could do:
<jdstrand> owner @{HOME}/.cache/online-accounts-ui/ r,
<jdstrand> owner @{HOME}/.cache/online-accounts-ui/id-<n> rw,
<Nirgali42> anyone else get the ubuntu start spinning for long time immediately after flash+reboot, then to have it finally reboot to permanent android boot logo?
<mardy> jdstrand: if we knew what <n> is, right? :-)
<jdstrand> mardy: yes
<Nirgali42> trying trusty on nexus 10
<jdstrand> let me check something actually
<Tassadar> dobey: wrong flavour in config, give it an hour or two, it will catch up
<Tassadar> fixed it just now
<dobey> Nirgali42: try using "stable" instead of "trusty"
<slvn_> Hi,
<slvn_> One month ago, I installed ubuntu touch from the testing (?) source (to try orientation).
<slvn_> It was working fine. I have update a few time with apt-get update/dist-upgrade.
<slvn_> Now, a silly issue appears :
<slvn_> On my nexus 11, I cannot login because the "password" field appears, misplaced, on top of the screen,
<slvn_> and the keybord does not show up to enter the 1111.
<dobey> Tassadar: thanks
<slvn_> Any idea?
<Nirgali42> dobey: okay
<jdstrand> mardy: I mispoke-- the 'r' on the parent directory is not needed
<jdstrand> mardy: DAC (traditional unix permissions) handles that
<dobey> slvn_: reflash and don't use apt to upgrade? :)
<mardy> jdstrand: an option could be to let the plugin store the cookies in whatever directory it has access to, and then online-accounts-service (which is unconfined) could copy the whole tree back where it needs it, but it's hacky and assumes many things
<jdstrand> mardy: so just need the one rule
<jdstrand> mardy: well, we have rules like this currently:
<jdstrand> owner @{HOME}/.cache/@{APP_PKGNAME}/ rw,
<jdstrand> mardy: could we not have '<n>' be something that is derived from the click package name?
<jdstrand> eg:
<dobey> slvn_: apt is not supported on ubuntu touch. the supported update method is system image updates through the updates panel in system settings
<Nirgali42> dobey: failed to locate image information
<jdstrand> owner @{HOME}/.cache/online-accounts-ui/id-@{APP_PKGNAME}/ rw,
<jdstrand> then plugin knows where it can write to
<Nirgali42> udbflash also doesnn't show a list of channels
<slvn_> dobey, yes this is the best solution, but I wanted to benefits of the latest orientation new stuff at that time. (and also report bug). I can still connect with phablet-shell. ... If any trick exists let me know. Otherwise, I will reflash
<dobey> Nirgali42: ubuntu-device-flash --channel ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09-proposed then; looks like there are no promoted images for manta, but there are proposed ones
<mardy> jdstrand: oh, that's an idea
<mardy> jdstrand: could it even be something like "owner @{HOME}/.cache/online-accounts-ui/id-@{APP_PKGNAME}_*/ rw,", with a wildcard?
<Nirgali42> sorry doing this from mac os x, so I'm using udbflash
<dobey> slvn_: i don't know why it's broken for you, so i can't really suggest anything other than flashing
<dobey> Nirgali42: ok i don't know what that does. but use the ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09-proposed channel
<Nirgali42> k
<mardy> jdstrand: or maybe even better .../id-*_@{APP_PKGNAME}
<jamie_> Iâm trying to install sable on a Nexus 4 (admittedly through a VM on my Mac)
<jamie_> *stable
<jamie_> It never progresses past the last âdone pushingâ
<jamie_> just sits there. any ideas?
<Nirgali42> dobey: udbflash is phablet-flash in golang
<slvn_> dobey, I want to flash from the latest channel. ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel-proposed --wipe --developer-mode --password=1111
<slvn_> is this the correct channel ?
<Nirgali42> which brings me to y next question. Where is an updated listing of channels?
<dobey> slvn_: if you want the proposed vivid images, then devel-proposed is the right channel yes. you probably don't need the --wipe option
<jdstrand> mardy: sure, that would work fine
<jdstrand> mardy: I have to step into a meeting now
<dobey> Nirgali42: "ubuntu-device-flash query --list-channels" shows them to me on ubuntu
<Nirgali42> hmm, what about through the web?
<dobey> http://system-image.ubuntu.com/channels.json if you want to parse the json
<Nirgali42> directly
<Nirgali42> ah thanks
<slvn_> dobey, I want the latest, with Orientation stuffs ? that's vivid proposed?
<dobey> at lest it's formatted in firefox and not all a single line
<dobey> slvn_: vivid proposed is the latest. i don't know if whatever orientation stuff you're talking about has landed in it or not
<Nirgali42> cool that channel gave me a "this phone needs restoring from a pc..."
<slvn_> dobey, I am refering to : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity8/FullShellRotation
<dobey> Nirgali42: huh. maybe something was weird with the android recovery/boot. you can flash the latest android 4.4 for manta, and then try again maybe?
<dobey> slvn_: ok. i don't know if it's landed there or not
<Nirgali42> hmm, I suppose I could do that, need to go do some reading, I never considered flashing with android :)
<dobey> if it has landed, it doesn't rotate on mako
<slvn_> dobey, Ok thanks, I will try and see.
<popey> pmcgowan: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-scope-youtube/+bug/1391595 is incredibly irritating and makes the phone unusable for me
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1391595 in YouTube Scope "Remove OA integration" [Critical,Confirmed]
<dobey> Nirgali42: i've had to do that a couple times. flash android, let it boot to the welcome wizard screen, then reboot to bootloader using the power button trick to get to bootloader, and flash ubuntu with the --bootstrap option (i guess udbflash should have that)
<popey> every time I swipe through scopes I get smacked in the face with a black "Online accounts" screen and if I swipe away it comes back
<Nirgali42> I'll grab 4.4.4
<Nirgali42> I guess that should do it for mantaray
<popey> pmcgowan: any idea if it's on a "soon" roadmap to be fixed?
<oSoMoN> tedg, Iâm looking at bug #1407709 and the documentation for URL dispatcher (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/URLDispatcher) ; in the case of android intent URLs (https://developer.chrome.com/multidevice/android/intents) the domain-suffix is not what weâre interested in, instead we want to parse the fragment to identify which app to launch, I take it this is not currently possible?
<ubot5> bug 1407709 in The Webapps-core project "Google Maps and Here Maps should handle custom intent:// URLs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1407709
<oSoMoN> tedg, I know that trying to bend url dispatcher to fit android intents is convoluted, but we will inevitably get such URLs in web pages, so handling them gracefully would be nice
<tedg> oSoMoN, So you want to look for the "/maps" instead of the "maps.google.es" in that example?
<tedg> Or I guess you really want "package=com.google.android.apps.maps"
<oSoMoN> tedg, yep, the latter
<tedg> oSoMoN, Yeah, we don't do anything like that today, but mpt is investigating how we could extend the specification.
<pmcgowan> popey, will check in a bit
<oSoMoN> tedg, ah, thatâs good to know, thanks
<dobey> oSoMoN: if the google maps webapp had "intent://maps.google.*/maps" added to the regex list, wouldn't it "just work" then?
<oSoMoN> dobey, does the url dispatcher support regexps? from the documentation it looks like it supports only matching on domain suffixes
<Nirgali42> dobey: was there some specific thing about 4.4 that made you suggest it?
<Nirgali42> the tablet came with 4.2.2
<dobey> oSoMoN: i thought that was the whole point of the options being passed to webapp-container?
<dobey> Nirgali42: it's the latest that isn't android 5
<Nirgali42> 4.4.4 gave me the sad android :)
<popey> pmcgowan: thanks
<Nirgali42> trying again with previous
<pmcgowan> popey, the root cause bug just landed in silo 0
<pmcgowan> 4 online accounts fixes just landed
<dobey> Nirgali42: hrmm. i'm sorry. i don't really know how to debug what went wrong there. i've only ever flashed devices from within ubuntu on actual hardware :)
<tedg> oSoMoN, No regex, we're going to need to present choices to the user, and I didn't want to have to try to describe what a regex does in text :-)
<Nirgali42> yeah no worries, I need to complicate things with mac os x
<oSoMoN> tedg, understood :)
<dobey> anyway, lunch time
<oSoMoN> dobey, the options passed to the webapp-container are one thing, the URLs that go through the URL dispatcher to select which app to launch are a completely different one
<dobey> oSoMoN: oh, ugh.
<popey> pmcgowan: yay
<popey> pmcgowan: also, are we tracking any bugs where today is blank when there's no data connection? http://popey.mooo.com/screenshots/device-2015-01-08-162336.png
<pmcgowan> popey, I'd say test next image as silo got cleaned
<popey> (my card ran out of credit)
<popey> ok
<pmcgowan> popey, not sure about that one, we did just land a cachign fix for scopes
<popey> ok,I'm not on latest image, still running the one before xmas
<oSoMoN> tedg, would it be in any way acceptable to have the url dispatcher rewrite intent:// URLs to e.g. make the package name become the domain, so that apps can handle them?
<oSoMoN> e.g. my intent://maps.google.es/maps?â¦#Intent;scheme=http;package=com.google.android.apps.maps;end URL would be rewritten to intent://com.google.android.apps.maps/maps?â¦#Intent;scheme=http;package=com.google.android.apps.maps;end
<tedg> oSoMoN, That's no impossible, it'd be a tricky special case, but not crazy. We don't have anything that deals with the other data, so that'd be all new.
<tedg> You'd still want the original URL passed to the app though, no?
<tedg> You need the maps.google.es for example.
<oSoMoN> tedg, not sure itâs really needed, the doc for android intent URLs says the host is optional anyway
<oSoMoN> tedg, I wrote my "proposal" down at https://bugs.launchpad.net/webbrowser-app/+bug/1407709/comments/4, in case you want to comment
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1407709 in The Webapps-core project "Google Maps and Here Maps should handle custom intent:// URLs" [Undecided,New]
<tedg> oSoMoN, Needs tests, etc. but here's a quick implementation idea: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/url-dispatcher/intent-pkg-domain/+merge/245880
<oSoMoN> tedg, man, that was fast!
<tedg> oSoMoN, I only started after I read your comment ;-)
<oSoMoN> I think you just beat the world record for smallest time from idea to implementation
<Norrin> how's the nexus 6 support?
<popey> I dont think anyone has started porting to nexus 6
<Norrin> is it possible to brick a device if you don't know what you're doing?
<popey> with ubuntu touch?
<Norrin> yeah, on a typical nexus device (an un supported one)
<popey> I expect so, but usually they're recoverable.
<cwayne> its really difficult to actually brick a nexus device
<Norrin> the bootloader needs to be replaced?
<cwayne> nope
<jdstrand> mardy: ok, done. did you need anything else regarding our earlier conversation?
<mardy> jdstrand: no, I think that's all for now, thanks
<jdstrand> cool, np
<pmcgowan> popey, do you know how I track down a crash report from my phone on errors.u.c? I cant seem to find it but can see it from my phone
<popey> yes
<popey> go to system settings and find the bit about privacy reports
<pmcgowan> yeah so I clicked trough to it on the phone no prob
<popey> system settings -> security & privacy
<popey> right, now adb shell to phone
<popey> ps aux | grep browser
<pmcgowan> but from my laptop browser I cant see it in the site
<pmcgowan> ok
<popey> then you'll see the url, click it
<Nirgali42> hey if you can still get to the fastboot, that means a device isn't bricked right?
<Nirgali42> lol
<Nirgali42> I can't seem to get a good firmware flashed on this darn nexus 10
<pmcgowan> popey, dont see a url
<popey> did you click the button and it spawn browser?
<popey> you may need to close browser first
<popey> so that the first instance of the browser has the url in the process list
<pmcgowan> ok let me try again
<popey> i just tested here and it works...
<popey> phablet  22077 29.6  5.9 622880 58900 ?        Ssl  17:24   0:05 webbrowser-app https://errors.ubuntu.com/user/bef2e4e......
<pmcgowan> popey, but I am concerned I dont just see it on the site from my browser
<pmcgowan> and e.u.c doesnt seem to know about 14.09
<popey> i see 45 reports here
<popey> from my phone
<popey> i am seeing reports filed today from my phone
<pmcgowan> popey, so that worked, but still seems these reports arent rolled into the main site
<popey> distro release has Ubuntu RTM 14.09
<popey> I can believe that
<pmcgowan> right but if I got to e.u.c I dont see them
<pmcgowan> thats bad
<popey> yes, there's no drop down for 14.09
<popey> ev made it, dunno who maintains it
<pmcgowan> and when doing all they dont show up
<pmcgowan> or, they show up under vivid cant tell
<pmcgowan> popey, k will check with him later
<ev> pmcgowan, popey: bdmurray is your guy
<popey> thanks
<dobey> Nirgali42: yeah, if you can get to bootloader, it's not totally bricked (unelss there's a hardware problem that prevents further booting)
 * popey wanders off for curry and perhaps beer
<pmcgowan> sounds good
<popey> pmcgowan: calendar alarms are broken in the latest image
<popey> no longer get a snooze / ok button
<popey> and they disappear after ~5 seconds
<popey> will reproduce and file a bug.
<pmcgowan> popey, crap, I think charles_  landed some changes yesterday to fix other issues
<popey> plausible.
<popey> i have seen it twice (I have a lot of calendar entries) but can't get to it fast enough to get a screenshot
<Nirgali42> dobey: have you ever done a duel boot?
<Nirgali42> actually, more specifically, has someone done a duel boot from mac os x :)
<dobey> Nirgali42: no. i only use ubuntu on my nexuses
<Nirgali42> hmm
<Nirgali42> well I did manage to get 4.2.2 stock on it
<dobey> you mean dual boot on the phone, or on your computer?
<Nirgali42> the device
<Nirgali42> not the laptop :)
<dobey> if you want dual boot on the device, install MultiROM from the play store
<dobey> and use that
<dobey> lots of people use it
<Nirgali42> yeah I'd like to be able to get back into android for troubleshooting purposes
<dobey> ok. then just install MultiROM
<dobey> it has a nice UI for picking the channel on the phone and such
<Tassadar> dobey: the images should be up-to-date now
<Nirgali42> okay, I didn't know it was that simple...
<Nirgali42> all this stuff with adb and fastboot and whatnot :
<dobey> heh
<dobey> well, i couldn't get through 5 minutes of using android
<Nirgali42> I dont like it either
<dobey> and i have to use ubuntu; so i immediately scrubbed android and all ubuntu
<Nirgali42> but I need to support my mom's openemr system from her perspective
<Nirgali42> and she uses android on her tablet to enter records
<dobey> bah. wifi kills my battery life, and updates checking isn't working on 3g for some reason :-/
<Nirgali42> o.O
<_8hzp> While you're answering newbie questions -- maybe you can answer some of mine, too.  Here's the first one: Can I get some sort of X server running (in vivid, let's say)?  For example xmir, which isn't installed by default if I'm seeing this right, but could it be made to work?
<charles_> popey, pmcgowan, ugh. Will test here in ~1h
<charles> popey, did you already file a bug # ?
<willcooke> _8hzp, yes!
<willcooke> _8hzp, we're working on that right now.  It's in the early stages
<willcooke> but it pretty much works.
<willcooke> there are some important bits missing around the input stack, so only mouse location works properly
<dobey> i don't think xmir will be shipped on phones though, even once it's working more reliably
<jamie_> Iâm now running vivid-development, but canât set read-write mode (permission denied). any ideas?
<Nirgali42> dobey: multirom doesn't support manta lol
<Nirgali42> I love my luck :)
<Adrian47> Hello, I have small problem with porting UT based on Android 4.4.2 :) My build now goes fine without errors but device not boot, only black screen, i can't connect to it by ADB is there possibility to save logcat's to sd?
<Nirgali42> maybe I will try from ubuntu on virtualbox
<dobey> Nirgali42: oh, hmm. Tassadar ^^ why doesn't multirom support manta?
<Tassadar> because I don't have one
<Tassadar> and it is pretty rare device, too, not much development on it
<Adrian47> Maybe someone know if it can boot with stock cm11 boot.img?
<dobey> hmm
<Tassadar> like, if I get my hands on it, there's no reason not to port it, but I just refuse to work on devices I don't have - it's not enjoyable and I'm not paid to do it
 * dobey has a 2012 nexus 7 that apparently nobody wants to buy
<Nirgali42> well the tool looks pretty cool, but I guess I will use the vm I'm building with ubuntu on it
<Nirgali42> I'm surprised there isn't more interest in nexus 10
<Nirgali42> although Tassadar I do understand your refusal :)
<Nirgali42> surprised someone hasn't offered to send you one :P
<Tassadar> it's pretty expensive, and honestly google doesn't seem to give a damn about tablets anymore
<Nirgali42> o.O
<Nirgali42> that seems like an overgeneralization :)
<Tassadar> it kinda looks like nobody even tried to see how the lollipop UI looks like on tablets, its so wasteful
<dobey> Tassadar: sure they do. they just call them phones now :P
<Nirgali42> but what do I know *shrug*
<Tassadar> and even most of their apps isn't optimized for tablets
<Nirgali42> just because google pays outrageous dollars to analysts to help them make okay business decisions, doesn't mean everyone else should fall in line :P
<Nirgali42> look what happened with windows after 20 years or so of lemmingism
<dobey> lol. if google has to pay outside analysts, i think they're doing something wrong ;)
<Nirgali42> not outside
<Nirgali42> I didnt say outside
<dobey> well, to any analysts really
<_8hzp> dobey: too bad I didn't know that ;-).  Should have bought your 2012/tegra nexus then :-).  Instead of getting the 2013/adreno one, for which there are a lot less instructions online.
<_8hzp> E.g. simply running a random distribution with a normal xorg seems to be fairly painless on the tegra version, and I'm not sure yet about this one and freedreno and everything.
<dobey> _8hzp: painless it is not
<Nirgali42> everyone corporation has staff like that to help them monitor markets and trends and stuff :)
<Nirgali42> we have them in our company
<_8hzp> But cool to hear that xmir at least will be an option!  Where is progress on this sort of stuff visible?  Are there particular mailing lists where people announce stuff, or git repos?
<Nirgali42> tegra... the 9 is tegra isn't it?
<dobey> Nirgali42: yes, but google's main business is based on analysis of things. they have huge data centers all around the world doing that all day long :P
<Nirgali42> I wonder if canonical has plans for it
<Nirgali42> dobey: yeah I see the humor in that now, thanks for clarification :)
<dobey> if the 9 is a new thing, i doubt it's tegra
<Nirgali42> hmm
<dobey> oh, it is a tegra
<Nirgali42> thought so
<dobey> a new tegra though
<dobey> not the old tegra
<Nirgali42> naturally :)
<dobey> i think
<Nirgali42> it has a different identifier
<dobey> it's only dual core
<Nirgali42> 9 is quad
<dobey> well, except for the graphics
<dobey> 2.3 GHz dual-core 64-bit Denver
<dobey> is what wikipedia says
<dobey> oh, the 9 is made by htc
<Nirgali42> hmm
<Nirgali42> I swear the dude at the store said quad
<Nirgali42> but whatevs
<dobey> quad sounds better :P
<Nirgali42> wiki is wrong
<Nirgali42> http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-k1-processor.html
<dobey> anyway
<Nirgali42> NVIDIA 4-Plus-1â¢ quad-core ARMÂ® Cortexâ¢-A15 CPU - Tegra K1 - See more at: http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-k1-processor.html#sthash.u8fH5Pos.dpuf
<Nirgali42> oops sorry abot the link there
<Nirgali42> stupid copy paste nabbed it
<Nirgali42> I hate chrome
<dobey> oh well
<dobey> it's still tegra :-/
<Nirgali42> lol
<Nirgali42> indeed
<dobey> and too big anyway
<Nirgali42> k setting up ubuntu to perform dual boot
<Nirgali42> +1
<Nirgali42> credit card sized devices with holographic projections
 * dobey remembers when phones were real phones
<Nirgali42> that's the future
<dobey> eww
<Nirgali42> no one remembers time trax aparently
<dobey> meh i wish sdk was faster
<dobey> anyone know why sdk would complain about not finding the manifest.json in the .ubuntu-sdk-deploy directory?
<Nirgali42> seems the dualboot.sh process is way outdated
<dobey> why would the sdk complain that manifest.json is missing from the .ubuntu-sdk-deploy directory when trying to build a click, when the file is clearly there (as proven by running ls)?
<ahayzen> ricmm, hey, i'm trying to remember the environment var to disable the JIT cache on device, and you told me last time. Can you remember what it is?
<Nirgali42> lol what now?
<Nirgali42> god... all the silly issues pop up for me... this time the screen lock unlocks for only a split second and goes back to lock
<Nirgali42> google...
<Nirgali42> lol it only does it in landscape
<Nirgali42> 4.2.2 needs to die in a fire
<kgunn> sergiusens: does --revision not work with certain channels?
<kgunn> i was trying to flash 57 which i can see here....
<kgunn> https://system-image.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed/flo/
<kgunn> but ubuntu-device-flash tells me "unknown flag 'revision' "
<sergiusens> kgunn: u-d-f --revision touch ...
<kgunn> ah, order of operation
<kgunn> thanks! flashing...
<Nirgali42> well I have it dual booting
<Nirgali42> unfortunately I need to figure out why it won't reboot to android lol
<Nirgali42> hmm I imagine there are some first boot steps after installing ubuntu touch
<Nirgali42> like for example, getting bluetooth to work
<nhaines> Nirgali42: nope.  But you do pick your language and set up Wi-Fi.
<ricmm> ahayzen: QV4_NO_JIT_CACHE=1
<ahayzen> ricmm, awesome thanks :)
 * ahayzen writes it down this time
<Nirgali42> I really need to find a plugin keyboard or something for this nexus 10
<Nirgali42> the on screen keyboard is crippling
<Nirgali42> at least for the part of configuring and what not
<Nirgali42> or perhaps allow sudo so I can remount,rw and enable ssh so I can use another computer to finish the process remotely
#ubuntu-touch 2015-01-09
<Nirgali42> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes well this is useful
<Nirgali42> and a touch keyboard with everything on one page rather than being paginated
<Nirgali42> ugh 5.x downloaded to my phone
<Nirgali42> I just had to fix the recovery and reinstall the root and dual boot apps
<Nirgali42> it's still sitting there waiting to install... I want to delete the dang thing so it doesnt
<Nirgali42> I recovered from  forgetting to prepare the 4.4.4 update before running it
<Nirgali42> does this still apply? "Even if you get OpenJDK, you'll still have to deal with the display server. Ubuntu Touch uses Android's SurfaceFlinger currenty, and will switch to Mir soon, but it won't run X11. As far as I know, Java's AWT and Swing don't support either SurfaceFlinger or Mir, so they wouldn't be able to display GUIs"
<AceLan> Nirgali42: using mir now
<Nirgali42> AceLan: so how difficult would it be to get X11 working?
<nhaines> Nirgali42: you'd have to start from scratch.
<Nirgali42> okay
<nhaines> XMir is coming along nicely, but no plans to ship it on the phone in the future.
<Nirgali42> I found this nexus 10 so I could put pcgen on it for tabletop gaming sessions
<Nirgali42> which is a java app
<Nirgali42> I am happy living on the bleeding edge if there is a bit of documentation somewhere to work with XMir and start from scratch
<Nirgali42> oops, I did an apt-get dist-upgrade and think I broke the boot to android
<Nirgali42> heh
<nhaines> You can't apt-get upgrade on Ubuntu on mobile devices.
<nhaines> It breaks everything.
<Nirgali42> that should have been in big red letters in the document lol
<Nirgali42> guess I can start over
<Nirgali42> just to be safe
<nhaines> Never hurts.
<Nirgali42> but then... if I can't get pcgen on it, there isn't a point
<nhaines> Well, there's that too.  :)
<Nirgali42> other than to say I've done it
<Nirgali42> but I did it
<Nirgali42> and it's cool
<nhaines> It's nice to give it a little spin for a bit.  :)
<Nirgali42> I would love to support it 100% but I'm a minimalist at heart. If I don't have a need for something...
<nhaines> I'm hoping for an Ubuntu announcement before I have to buy a tablet.
<nhaines> Makes sense.
<Nirgali42> what do you mean announcement?
<nhaines> Such as "don't buy an Android tablet because an Ubuntu tablet is coming."
<Nirgali42> ohh
<Nirgali42> apple really put a hurt on that process, I thought ubuntu was going to drop it altogether
<Nirgali42> but I guess there was enough interest
<nhaines> No need.  The phone, tablet, and desktop OSes are all identical.
<nhaines> But I want a tablet I can sync a keyboard and mouse to and have a standard desktop.  I'll pay good money for that when it gets here.
<Nirgali42> yeah, I thought it was here already
<Nirgali42> my mistake
<Nirgali42> I may just put this back in the box and take it back
<Nirgali42> unless there is a nice app for viewing files
<nhaines> Well, there's the File Manager.  :)
<nhaines> Convergent desktop is post 16.04 LTS, btw.  :)
<Nirgali42> not familiar with that
<Nirgali42> I've been out of touch with desktop technology
<Nirgali42> I've been nothing but linux server admin for years
<Nirgali42> using mac at work and the other one for games at home
<nhaines> Convergence is where the phone, tablet, and desktop all run Unity 8 and the interface adapts to the display and inputs you have available on your device.
<Nirgali42> ah
<Nirgali42> that's nifty
<Nirgali42> unity 8 is the current ubuntu interface right?
<nhaines> Unity 7 is the current desktop interface, and Unity 8 is the phone interface.
<Nirgali42> oh
<nhaines> (But when desktop mode is added to Unity 8, it should look pretty much just like 7)
<nhaines> So it's not a Windows 8 style of thing.  :)
<Nirgali42> I would never dishonor a project like that
<nhaines> Anyway, I'm *really* looking forward to going on vacation with only my phone, and then plugging it into the hotel TV and adding a bluetooth mouse and keyboard and loading up Firefox and looking at pictures of cats at the end of th night.
<nhaines> No laptop required.  :)
<Nirgali42> lol
<nhaines> That's worth soooo much money to me.  (Especially as I plan for SCALE next month.)
<Nirgali42> no kidding
<Nirgali42> I'm sad that this hasn't happened yet
<nhaines> Well, it's lots of work and people would rather disparage Ubuntu and Canonical than help out with Mir.  So unfortunately it's down to the small Canonical team working on it.  :)
<Nirgali42> the way things have been going, I figured I could have picked up this nexus 10, drop ubuntu on it, plugin a mouse/keyboard and run X11 apps
<nhaines> Nope.  Right now they're just trying to make sure that Ubuntu apps are the best they can be.
<Nirgali42> I don't understand that statement. What's up with the relationship between canonical and the community?
<nhaines> Just philosophical agreements.
<nhaines> Err, disagreements.
<Nirgali42> hee
<Nirgali42> if you had to guess, how far off is that concept?
<Nirgali42> as you say, it's worth quite a bit
<Nirgali42> and should be for a lot of people
<nhaines> Last I heard, they're targeting Ubuntu 16.10.
<Nirgali42> oh right you said that
<Nirgali42> that's quite a way off
<nhaines> It's a lot of work.  :)
<Nirgali42> the industry doesn't wait
<nhaines> Well, Canonical haven't started working on desktop mode Unity 8 yet, but someone started in December and they merged some chagnes.
<nhaines> So it's not like if someone started working on it and the work was compatible with Canonical's plans, it wouldn't get accepted.
<Nirgali42> true
<Nirgali42> that xmir thing is key
<Nirgali42> with that, so many programs would work with minimal effort
<nhaines> Right now I think the mouse works but others stuff doesn't.
<nhaines> On the other hand, at some point, QT and GTK apps will just work natively on Mir.
<nhaines> So they won't need XMir at all.  :)
<Nirgali42> no hope for java
<Nirgali42> but the thought had crossed me mind
<Nirgali42> X11 is old technology
<nhaines> 1983 if I remember.  :)
<Nirgali42> apps should all be going the way of mir or something like it
<Nirgali42> and it will happen if it is ported to desktop platforms
<nhaines> Mir already runs on the desktop, it's just not very pleasant.  :)
<Nirgali42> I should have said, succesfully ported to
<nhaines> But apps don't need ported to Mir, only toolkits.  So that's the good news.  GTK already runs great.
<Nirgali42> ah well apps need to be ported to toolkits
<Nirgali42> how about a qt or gtk java interface
<nhaines> I guess someone would have to write that.  :)
<Nirgali42> lol
<Nirgali42> unfortunately they are c++
<Nirgali42> that would never happen
<Nirgali42> I think
<nhaines> Well, you'd have to write wrappers.  I suspect that it would make for some very happy programmers and users though.
<Nirgali42> port java to mir and it's all good
<nhaines> Whatever the Java toolkit is.  SWIFT or something?
<Nirgali42> not really sure
<Nirgali42> I remember awt
<Nirgali42> but that was a long time ago
<Nirgali42> FX?
<nhaines> I dunno, I've happily stuck with Python.  :)
<Nirgali42> yeah python is cool
<Nirgali42> we use it at work
<Nirgali42> for cfengine
<Nirgali42> lots of our sysadmin tools are written in python
<Nirgali42> no not swift
<Nirgali42> swing
<Nirgali42> looks like swing and javafx will be side by side for forseeable future
<nhaines> Ah, swing!  That's right.
<Nirgali42> my last statement for the night is this
<Nirgali42> X11 needs to die in a fire
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Nirgali42> until it is dead
<nhaines> It'll fade off into obscurity.  :)
<Nirgali42> not soon enough
<Nirgali42> but if people realize ubunutu is doing the right thing the world would be a better place
<Nirgali42> the other two factions need to realize X11 should die in a fire
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Static Electricity Day! :-D
<mardy> chrisccoulson: hi! I'm working on making Online Accounts plugin being confined by apparmor, and I'm running into some unexpected denials when using the UbuntuWebView
<mardy> chrisccoulson: I copy-pasted the webview template into my apparmor profile, but still I'm running into denials; I'll copy paste only the first one:
<mardy> chrisccoulson: Jan  9 13:58:47 ubuntu-phablet kernel: [ 3838.708529] type=1400 audit(1420801127.138:112): apparmor="DENIED" operation="open" profile="com.ubuntu.reminders_evernote-account-plugin_0.5.latest//oxide_helper" name="/sys/devices/system/cpu/" pid=8800 comm="oxide-renderer" requested_mask="r" denied_mask="r" fsuid=32011 ouid=0
<mardy> chrisccoulson: this is the profile I'm using: http://pastebin.com/CS1RQkfw
<frenda> Can I install ubuntu phone on my touch screen laptop (Acer)?
<popey> kinda.
<popey> frenda: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/06/unity-8-daily-build-images-go-live
<frenda> Alongside Windoes 8?
<frenda> Does it install grub?
<popey> I don't know. I haven't installed it yet. willcooke  may know
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> it does
<willcooke> seb128, right?  ^^
<frenda> does grub support touch screen monitors? (laptops)
<willcooke> not that I know of
<frenda> Isn't there anything else to switch between OSes?
<popey> good question.
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/396950/tabletpc-os-selection-in-grub-using-volume-and-windows-buttons
<popey> seems you're not the first to ask
<frenda> S, The answer is NO!
<seb128> willcooke, correct
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: I finally installed unity8-desktop-session-mir on my Vivid Vervet Intel BayTrail tablet. When I try to log into the Unity8-mir Session, the screen first turns black, then the mouse cursor appears in the top left corner and nothing happens. I can move the cursor over the black screen and that was about it.
<mzanetti> sturmflut-work: getting anything in ~/.cache/upstart/unity8.log?
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: "libEGL warning: unsupported platform (null)" right at the beginning doesn't look too good I suppose
<mzanetti> sturmflut-work: is this a normal vivid install?
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: Jep
<mzanetti> greyback: any hints?
<greyback> mzanetti: sturmflut-work: that's actually not a critical error, it's just a nonsense message.
<sturmflut-work> greyback: Okay
<mzanetti> ok... sturmflut-work, anything printed after that?
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: Yes, I'll get a clean logfile and then come back
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: I found a difference between a working Unity8-Mir-Session on a Core i5 and the non-working setup on the BayTrail tablet
<mzanetti> which is?
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: The installations should be identical, but as it seems on the Core i5 "libmirplatform5driver.so" is loaded versus "libmirplatform4driver.so" on BayTrail
<mzanetti> interesting...
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: For some reason both libraries are installed on both systems
<mzanetti> I don't have the 5 one yet
<mzanetti> I do have 3 and 4 though
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: I have both libmirplatform4driver-mesa_0.9.0+15.04.20141125-0ubuntu2_amd64 and libmirplatform5driver-mesa_0.10.0+15.04.20150107.2-0ubuntu1_amd64 installed
<mzanetti> I don't have too much experience with this... it just worked for my use cases... let me fire up my vm and compare
<greyback> sturmflut-work: we just had a new Mir release, 0.1.0. I think I heard of some packaging problems with it. Suggest you "dpkg -l | mir" and remove any mir packages that are of the older version
<mzanetti> geez, my vm is totally outdated, only have version 3
 * mzanetti thought he updated it 2 days ago
<sturmflut-work> greyback: Will do. It might also be caused by some GPU driver problems, BayTrail is not a terribly stable platform.
<mzanetti> isn't it an intel one?
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: One would think that "Intel-powered x86 tablet" makes things easier, but in reality I'm having problems with pretty much everything from ACPI to WiFi.
<greyback> sturmflut-work: that's a fair point
<mzanetti> well, acpi might be vivid related too
<mzanetti> having troubles with that on my notebook too atm
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: They changed a lot of ACPI stuff in the 3.18 and 3.19 kernels. Some things got better, others didn't change, and some things got worse. For example the battery is not detected on my tablet and despite multiple patches which were supposed to fix the problem the issue is still open
<mzanetti> sturmflut-work: so I've upgraded my vm now and while I did get the libmirplatform5 lib, it still kept the libmirplatform3 one
<mzanetti> indicates some packaging issue indeed and the old one should be dropped
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: There seem to be two groups of packages present and I have the feeling that they shouldn't be there at the same time. One group is libmirplatform4*/libmirserver27, the other libmirplatform5*/libmirserver28.
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: I removed libmirplatform4*/libmirserver27 on BayTrail and voila, it takes a while, but then the language selection greeter thing appears!
<mzanetti> woot!
<mzanetti> kgunn: hey, unity8 + mir running on an x86 lenovo tablet ^^
<greyback> yay
<kgunn> very cool
<jdstrand> mardy (and chrisccoulson): looks like the /sys/devices/system/cpu/ is simply that oxide_helper needs a new rule
<jdstrand> mardy: I would be surprised if that was actually breaking you. can you paste all the denials?
 * sturmflut-work wants to be back in Thailand
<kenvandine> mandel, any luck with that fix-pause branch?
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti, kgunn, greyback: http://hogsmeade.lieberbiber.de/IMG_20150109_150423.jpg
<greyback> sturmflut-work: wow :)
<kgunn> sturmflut-work: so this was using mesa platform (not android) ?
<kgunn> nice! btw
<jgdx> kenvandine, hny! :) How was your time off?
<kenvandine> jgdx, great, and your's?
<jgdx> kenvandine, just great!
<jgdx> kenvandine, I wanna do some RTM landings, but I'm not sure if you have a plan for the pending ones or not?
<jgdx> if some are to be bundled or not
<sturmflut-work> kgunn: Yep, it is a repurposed Windows 8.1 quad-core x86 BayTrail Tablet. No Android, it is a proper platform with UEFI and an Intel GPU.
<sturmflut-work> kgunn: Actually the biggest problem was getting around the 32-bit UEFI implementation, but I hear that upcoming devices will have a proper 64-bit UEFI, so in a couple of months one can hopefully just go to a store, buy a Windows 8.1 tablet, disable Secure Boot and install stock Vivid Vervet from an USB stick
<greyback> sturmflut-work: to increase the size of the UI, try setting the env var GRID_UNIT_PX to something higher than the default (8) - will need to set maybe in /etc/environment for all processes to read it
<kenvandine> jgdx, i was just reviewing your networkinfo fix
<mzanetti> sturmflut-work: and to have the tablet interface do: gsettings set com.canonical.Unity8 usage-mode Staged
<mzanetti> sturmflut-work: to switch back to "desktop" interface set it to "Windowed" instead of "Staged"
<kenvandine> jgdx, we have a pile of approved jgdx backport merge proposals
<kenvandine> jgdx, but most of them aren't on the ww03 milestone
<jgdx> kenvandine, right
<kenvandine> jgdx, do you want to create the landing?
<kenvandine> your branch i just approved is for ww03
<jgdx> kenvandine, yeah sure, landing the networkinfo fix for rtm in its own silo?
<kenvandine> i think there might be one more we can add
 * kenvandine looks
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: how do I properly log out of Unity8? Can't find the right button.
<mzanetti> sturmflut-work: in theory, pull down the rightmost indicator
<mzanetti> sturmflut-work: in practice I think it fails to properly log out atm
<mzanetti> you're entering new territory here :)
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: I am in "Staged" mode with GRID_UNIT_PX=32 now and the tablet looks like a giant phone :)
<mzanetti> 32 is a lot :)
<mzanetti> sturmflut-work: rotation should come soon
<sturmflut-work> The Touchscreen works like a charm.
<sturmflut-work> But for some reason no scopes are loaded.
<mzanetti> hmm... *should* work
<uhhimhere> you know i remember when ubuntu first went mainstream one of the key selling ideas that led to alot of adoptions among windows users was that it ran on basic hardware and still looked & felt decent
<uhhimhere> and had synaptic which was like/is the app store on crack
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: On the Core i5 installation it does, there I have scopes and stuff
 * sturmflut-work will poke around a bit
<uhhimhere> so you could run all this amazing stuff, multitask, play games (with tweaks) on a destined to the bin
<mzanetti> sturmflut-work: cool, keep us posted
<kenvandine> jgdx, ok, i guess that's all we have right now
<uhhimhere> machine
<kenvandine> mandel had a fix for one of them that we ran into problems before the break, trying to figure out if he's had any luck with that
<kenvandine> jgdx, go ahead with a landing for just that one
<jgdx> kenvandine, ack
<uhhimhere> so what kind of legacy smartphone can the ubuntu-touch bring back to life?
<jgdx> !devices | uhhimhere
<ubot5> uhhimhere: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<kgunn> sturmflut-work: hey, mind if i share your jpg ?
<kgunn> wanna brag on you :)
<sturmflut-work> kgunn: If you give me a moment you can have even more
<kgunn> cool!
<sturmflut-work> kgunn: http://picpaste.com/IMG_20150109_152259-qcRVtUCL.jpg http://picpaste.com/IMG_20150109_152341-n5saCTKk.jpg http://picpaste.com/IMG_20150109_152510-eqU15kDU.jpg http://picpaste.com/IMG_20150109_152550-oDinIC4l.jpg http://picpaste.com/IMG_20150109_152906-fqQ7cVhk.jpg
<uhhimhere> does UT run on dalvik or on the kernel
<mzanetti> now that tablet looks tiny :D
<mzanetti> uhhimhere: kernel
<sturmflut-work> uhhimhere: It runs on "bare metal", there is no Dalvik/ART.
<uhhimhere> nice
<uhhimhere> why u no support Samsung Galaxy Trend/Plus/Lite/Grand?
<mzanetti> sturmflut-work: did you turn off wifi or is it broken?
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: So here I am, playing with the indicators, and I have no battery, no WiFi, no Bluetooth and no sound. So basically the only usable indicators are Date/Time and Logout.
<mzanetti> :(
<sturmflut-work> mzanetti: The internal WiFi/Bluetooth doesn't work, it should, there is a kernel driver, but in the end it doesn't.
<dobey> why would the sdk complain that manifest.json is missing from the .ubuntu-sdk-deploy directory when trying to build a click, when the file is clearly there (as proven by running ls)?
<bzoltan> dobey: I can take a look if you share the project with  me
<bzoltan> dobey: and let's ask zbenjamin too
<dobey> bzoltan: lp:~dobey/pay-ui/adt-run-ap is the branch where i'm hitting this issue
<dobey> bzoltan: you might need to "maintain" the click chroot and install intltool and libubuntuoneauth-2.0-dev
<dobey> to be able to build it
<bzoltan> dobey:  the libubuntuoneauth-2.0-dev does not install in my armhf 14.10 chroot
<bzoltan> dobey:  now it does
<dobey> ok
<uhhimhere> why u no support openmoko freerunner?
<bzoltan> dobey:  but still '--   package 'ubuntuoneauth-2.0' not found' and cmake fails
<dobey> bzoltan: huh
<dobey> bzoltan: did it install the x86 one? maybe you need to install it with the :armhf appendage?
<mardy> jdstrand: here are all the denials I get: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9698751/
<bzoltan> dobey:  I did that ... it is a different problem. My device has the wrong kit
<dobey> bzoltan: oh, ok
<flipapy> hey so will the 'ubuntu touch phone' still have the ability to be a pvc?
<dobey> uhhimhere: the openmoko phone from like 2007?
<flipapy> pc*?
<popey> flipapy: not the first one, later it will
<uhhimhere> dobey: 2008 yesss
<flipapy> aw popey that's like the main reason i want one, and how about the ubuntu tablet, can that becoem a pc?
<popey> not yet
<dobey> uhhimhere: it's too old/slow/etc i would guess
<dobey> why do people want phones to be PCs?
<flipapy> i want everything i need to be mobile, and research is so much faster and easier to access as a pc with large screens
<dobey> is there a phone on the market with a core i7, 16 GB RAM, and 1TB ssd?
<cecja> because the hardware is overpowered to be just a "phone"
<cecja> dobey: not everyone needs workstation performance.
<flipapy> awesome, that would rock, and there is a tablet with siilar specs i think
<flipapy> i think its a windos tablet/ power tablet or something
<lotuspsychje> try to state this to iphone users who buy 1000%
<bzoltan> dobey:  Done ... cmake works .. I had to install the libubuntuoneauth-2.0:armhf too ... why??? odd
<lotuspsychje> $
<uhhimhere> dobey: but in pc ubuntu make old hardware look like supa car, why u no think ubuntu can give breath of fresh air to modest platform from 2007
<cecja> flipapy: yes the microsoft surface pro 3 has this specs...
<dobey> uhhimhere: if you want it to work, feel free to port it
<dobey> trust me, ubuntu is incredibly slow on my laptop from 2007/2008
<flipapy> yeah there you go, but i want to be able to use my tablet as a full on omcputer with keyboard and large second screen full sized mouse, then just take it with me and go yippy. i'm free yadda yadaa using wifi/4g as necessary.
<uhhimhere> dobey: i used to lay steam games on ubuntu from laptop 2007
<uhhimhere> dobey: very good
<uhhimhere> dobey: mush bettr dan windos
<dobey> i'm sure there are a few laptops from then where it might be slightly reasoanble performance wise
<dobey> but the vast majority are not
<bzoltan> dobey:  it is possible that the syntax of the manifest file is not correct and that is why it fails
<dobey> bzoltan: how can i verify that? and can we get a better error message if that is the case becuase "missing" and "invalid syntax" are very different problems :)
<bzoltan> dobey: sure the message could be smarter ... the manifest file should be editable in the QtC. I can not tell you straight what the problem is... but I would go with a simpler project structure ... like disable first the test stuff
<dobey> bzoltan: i'm trying to add the test stuff
<dobey> doh
<bzoltan> dobey: At least we know where the problem entered :) So it seems that the manifest file is incorrect .. where did you get that structure?
<dobey> so i see the problem now that i realize that error is a lie
<dobey> two missing closing braces
<dobey> now it works
<dobey> i'll file a bug against sdk about the error message
<dobey> thanks bzoltan
<flipapy> i lie the future of ubuntu computing, personally i like less gaming rigs and more streamlining, less boxes, more mobility.
<bzoltan> dobey:  I am not so sure that it is the sdk what makes that message
<flipapy> like*
<flipapy> the game quality will suffer will it not?
<bzoltan> dobey:  I suspect the click here
<dobey> flipapy: steamos doesn't support arm platform as target
<bzoltan> dobey:  but please file a bug and I will check it on Monday
<dobey> bzoltan: ok
<flipapy> maybe if the tv itself is a massive gaming rig. then yeah, the gaming on a 64"  flat screen  working with the rear components of a super laptop  thatwould make a great gaming rig
<flipapy> dobey: but im talking about maybe a year or 2 in the future
<dobey> flipapy: so am i. it was hard enough getting to the point where companies actually have their proprietary games ported to linux at all. most of them are 32-bit x86. getting them ported to arm would be very costly
<dobey> especially in any way they could be performant on arm
<jdstrand> mardy: the other denials seem to be a result of not using the 'networking' policy group?
<flipapy> why cant linux dev's build the ports?
<jdstrand> mardy: eg, you should be able to make them go away by using "#include <abstractions/nameservice>"
<jdstrand> (which is in the networking policy group)
<flipapy> or if ubuntu thin client can run windows software, why cant it run windows gaming?
<mardy> jdstrand: oh, I'm afraid you are right; I'll try that
<davmor2> flipapy: proprietary games are not open source and the games companies will likely not open them up
<flipapy> or a modificatio of the windows software client that can run windows gaming?
<dobey> flipapy: you can't run x86 games on arm
<dobey> flipapy: and proprietary is proprietary
<davmor2> flipapy: speed and game performance
<flipapy> right, does it have to be arm? isnt the ubuntu phone os going to incorporate more and more devices and hardware as time goes by?
<flipapy> wont they use snap dragon, and eventually nvidia and intel phone chips?
<dobey> flipapy: a phone will never be a real PC. it might have the same interface when you dock it, but it's still the same phone hardware. in the same way that a Honda Fit and an F1 race car have the same interface, but are very different machines.
<dobey> it's not a matter of ubuntu vs ubuntu phone; there is only one ubuntu. the OS can run on a wide range of hardware, but all available software may only run on some of the hardware, not all of it
<dobey>  but sure, in environments where all the work is done on a mainframe/supercomputer cluster somewhere, and all you need locally is a thin client, a docked phone with kb/mouse behaving more like a traditional PC interface, will be quite usable
<flipapy> im not going to get into metaphors - but i think as the tech gets smaller, the phones will dock with the tablet and can dock the phone with the tv, or the tablet with the tv, or both with the tv and have a maximized gaming experience. i think it is possible. to combine the power of the phone the tablet and the tv hardware, smart hardware inside the tv, to make a decent gaming experience. is it worth it? maybe not, is it better to conside
<flipapy> r that the tv should serve as the main pc then the tablet and phone are peripherals? yes robably, but i still like hte idea of increasing a media/ gaming/ office expereience by combining the tablet phe and tv/pc units
<flipapy> aw sorry that was big
<dobey> it wasn't a metaphor, it was a simile
<dobey> or analogy
<flipapy> i iddnt call it a metaphor, i want to stay clear of illusion completely
<mardy> jdstrand: thanks, that helped. Now, what is the syntax to allow creating a directory and any subdirectories and files inside it?
<flipapy> diddnt*
<dobey> the problem with "tech gets smaller" is that it isn't
<flipapy> the internals of the tech is not getting smaller?
<dobey> phones are getting bigger
<flipapy> they arent fitting more into smaller spaces inside the phopnes?
<jdstrand> mardy: assuming you want 'owner':
<dobey> i have a laptop that is smaller than a lot of phones on the market now
<flipapy> cpu's arent becoming more complex using the same small space?
<jdstrand> mardy: owner /path/to/dir/ rw,
<jdstrand> mardy owner /path/to/dir/** rwk,
<flipapy> im talking about the internals
<flipapy> thats what will make the unit more capable of running a decent game
<dobey> flipapy: i don't care about the internals if i can't fit it in my pocket :)
<mardy> jdstrand: cool, thanks
<jdstrand> mardy: the first is the directory itself, the second is everything under it. I added 'k' for locking
<mardy> jdstrand: excellent, it's working! Now I get these, but they don't appear to be fatal: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9698941/
<jdstrand> /sys/devices/system/cpu/ we should add to the webview policy (can you mention it in the bug?)
<jdstrand> the other is something evernote is using isn't honoring TMPDIR, or your tests aren't setting it
<mardy> jdstrand: mmm... I get a few messages like this from oxide: [0109/182026:ERROR:connection.cc(1060)] Cookie sqlite error 14, errno 0: unable to open database file, sql: INSERT OR REPLACE INTO meta (key,value) VALUES (?,?)
<jdstrand> mardy: are those old or new with this run?
<mardy> jdstrand: new
<jdstrand> it is probably those /var/tmp things
<mardy> jdstrand: I see that for ~/.local/share we are using "mrwkl", maybe I should use the same?
<jdstrand> you should've seen denials if rwk wasn't enough. feel free to use mrwkl if you need mmap and hard linking
<jdstrand> mardy: what is launching this process?
<mardy> jdstrand: yes, even adding those, I still get those messages
<jdstrand> interesting
<mardy> jdstrand: online-accounts-service, via QProcess
<jdstrand> mardy: well, maybe note-- do you have any explicit denies?
<mardy> jdstrand: and the process does a aa_change_profile on startup
<mardy> jdstrand: you mean if I see denials about this in the syslog? no, I don't
<jdstrand> mardy: (so, online-accounts-service should probably set TMPDIR=@{HOME}/.cache/online-accounts-ui/id-*-@{APP_PKGNAME}_@{APP_APPNAME}/ to get rid of the need for /var/tmp access (which we won't be able to allow))
<jdstrand> mardy: no, I meant 'deny' rules. let me look at your paste
<jdstrand> deny @{HOME}/.config/libaccounts-glib/accounts.db* w, ?
<jdstrand>   # FIXME: LP: #1220713 - online accounts currently tries rw and falls back to
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1220713 in linux (Ubuntu Trusty) "Provide LSM hook for access()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1220713
<jdstrand>   #        ro. This can go away once an access() LSM hook is implemented. For
<jdstrand>   #        now, just silence the denial.
<jdstrand>   deny @{HOME}/.config/libaccounts-glib/accounts.db* w,
 * jdstrand wonders if this isn't doing that fallback properly
<mardy> jdstrand: I think that's correct
<jdstrand> (or if this is the denial at all)
<jdstrand> that's the only deny rule I see that is obviously for online accounts
<tsdgeos> boiko: any idea when https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/dialer-app/AllIsNotAll/+merge/243049 will land?
<jdstrand> mardy: you can test by commenting out the 'deny @{HOME}/.config/libaccounts-glib/accounts.db* w,'. you should see a denial if it is the thing causing the problem
<Saviq> mardy, I'm in something of a loop of OA asking me to authorize the youtube scope to access my G account... anything you'd find interesting or shall I just disable youtube accessing my acct?
<boiko> tsdgeos_: hi, so, we tried to land it end last year, but the dependency change in there was causing a lot of trouble, which end up blocking the landing of some critical features
<boiko> tsdgeos_: I will try to land it now
<tsdgeos_> boiko: cll
<tsdgeos_> ckk
<tsdgeos_> cool i mean
<tsdgeos_> damn keyboard :D
<boiko> tsdgeos_: I was about to google what cll and ckk stand for :)
<DS-McGuire>  I have pushed an app to the store however I can't find it if I boot and an emulator and try and download it. Any idea why?
<Elleo> DS-McGuire: is your package i386 compatible or only armhf?
<DS-McGuire> Elleo, Hmm, I can't remember. I shall check.
<DS-McGuire> Elleo, i386
<popey> DS-McGuire: which app?
<DS-McGuire> popey, That golf one.
<popey> its marked     Architecture independent
<DS-McGuire> popey, So it is. What would I need to do to change that?
<popey> why would you want to?
<Elleo> DS-McGuire: what's it called? searching for 'golf' doesn't show anything on my device
<popey> yeah, i dont see it on my device either
<Elleo> DS-McGuire: architecture independent is correct if you don't have any compiled stuff in it
<popey>     ubuntu-core-15.04-dev1 is probably why
<Elleo> ah
<DS-McGuire> Elleo, popey That what's I mean, it's in the store but I can't see it.
<popey> that framework doesn't exist on the device
<popey> change the framework to 14.10 and it will
<DS-McGuire> popey, I assumed because the phones are 15.04 it needed to be that.
<popey> they arent
<DS-McGuire> are they not?
<DS-McGuire> Well... God damnit hahah!
<popey> ubuntu-sdk-14.10
<popey> use that
<popey> well, some might be
<popey> but not all
<beuno> also, frameworks aren't really connected to ubuntu versions
<beuno> we might ship 15.04 with the 14.10 framework
<beuno> maybe
<beuno> :)
<DS-McGuire> Makes sense. When you say use Ubuntu sdk 14.10 do you mean the ubuntu sdk version on Ubuntu 14.10?
<DS-McGuire> popey, Forget to ping ^
<Elleo> DS-McGuire: it's not related to the SDK version you're using to develop with, you just need to change the framework that you request in the manifest
<beuno> well, it means a specific set of APIs you depende on
<DS-McGuire> Elleo, Perfect, thank you. I was just making sure.
<mardy> Saviq: sorry, I saw your message just now. No, just disable the account, we are working on it :-)
<Saviq> mardy, ok, thanks
<seb128> popey, that report is not a bug, we stopped to check for updates on settings start because it was creating issues and wrong
<seb128> the issue was that the banner would show after  few seconds and shift content and make you hit wrong targets
<DS-McGuire> When debugging I have this warning: This project is using the experimental QML API extensions for QtWebKit and is therefore tied to a specific QtWebKit release. Is that something important that would stop my app from running on a device?
<seb128> check the closed bugs I guess
<popey> seb128: oh, okay.
<Laney> we should have something which checks for updates periodically though
<Laney> before it'd do that when you opened u-s-s
<pmcgowan> Laney, popey seb128 once we have a better background service to get status from it can get re-enabled in some way, but that work stalled a bit
<pmcgowan> its on strehl team backlog as I recall
<popey> pmcgowan: ok
<kenvandine> bfiller, we need to land a branch in rtm to enable testability of the wizard, the bug isn't targeted for the  milestone but is tagged qa-automation-testing
<kenvandine> bfiller, that should be fine to land right?
<ahayzen> Hi, i'm on rtm (mako 157) and I keep getting an issue where after medium/long periods of the device being locked. When I come to unlock it the first press does not turn the screen on, the second causes it to turn on and then instantly off again. It then requires a third press to 'wake' the device. Is this a known issue or is anyone else having it and how would I debug it?
<pngo> ahayzen, I have no such problem
<ahayzen> pngo, i'm not sure which project i would report a bug against... or where to debug lol
<pngo> ahayzen, me too
<dobey> ahayzen: maybe against qtubuntu which provides android/hybris integration to the qt UI
<dobey> ahayzen: at least, it's a good starting point for that
<ahayzen> dobey, are there any logs i can investigate?
<ahayzen> dobey, hah as soon as a plugged it in it turned the screen on
<ahayzen> dobey, maybe a powerd thing
<dobey> i don't know
<dobey> i wish plugging my phone in would turn the screen on and pop a "charging" notification
<dobey> it staying a solid black brick when i plug it in is a bit disconcerting
<ahayzen> dobey, i wonder if qtmir maybe a better place ... but idk lol
<dobey> probably not
<ahayzen> ok i'll do it against qtubuntu for now and see what people suggest
<tomdp> Is anyone aware of any effort to port Ubuntu to the Nexus 6? I found no information about any projects after checking the Devices page on the wiki and scouring Google.
<dobey> tomdp: nope
#ubuntu-touch 2015-01-10
 * SturmFlut has a new game in the App Store: "Flood It"
<SturmFlut> mhall119: I tried to buy uReadIt (dev) from the app store, mainly to check out the PayUI, but couldn't manage to complete the payment process. It showed me the account/payment provider selection screen, I entered my Launchpad password and chose PayPal, then the "Loading" dialogue appeared for about a minute followed by a rather generic failure notice
<krisabsinthe42> hmm. ive installed ubuntu touch several times. when installing the latest daily of vivid getting "This phone needs restoring from a PC or service center" any thoughts. installed 5 times now, each time installing android in between
<krisabsinthe42> nexus 4, sorry
<ahoneybun> krisabsinthe42, still here?
<mhall119> beuno: see StrumFlut's comments above?
<krisabsinthe42> ahoneybun: yes lol
<ahoneybun> krisabsinthe42, are you trying to dualboot?
<krisabsinthe42> nope, side loading the 3 img files
<ahoneybun> I'm guessing your not running ubuntu on your desktop?
<krisabsinthe42> I was, switched to crunchbang
<ahoneybun> I see that is a nice distro but it is pure debian
<krisabsinthe42> yeah, im pretty Linux savy , have RHCSA and it is my day job lol
<krisabsinthe42> so if there is something crazy to try I am down
<krisabsinthe42> but I do miss phablet-flash lol
<krisabsinthe42> if you think it would be best to switch back to ubuntu that is a non-issue
<nhaines> krisabsinthe42: try running Ubuntu and setting up the PPA from a live DVD.  :)
<ahoneybun> ubuntu-device-flash is the bomb now krisabsinthe42
<krisabsinthe42> ok, ill 'dd' a new image real quick
 * ahoneybun moved to ubuntu fulltime for the moment for dev
<krisabsinthe42> ubuntu is probably the *most* supported distro.
<ahoneybun> krisabsinthe42, for dev of ubuntu touch?
<krisabsinthe42> in general ubuntu is well supported. esp for development
<krisabsinthe42> im talking from the days before package managers lol
<ahoneybun> wow
<krisabsinthe42> writing iso now
<nhaines> krisabsinthe42: hopefully that's a quick, easy way to get your device up and running.
<krisabsinthe42> yeah hope so. I had fun last time with cli sms and raw nmea data
<krisabsinthe42> and now my job is moving to 'bring your own device' but have to install spyware on it, soo....good luck with that and ubuntu
<pngo> why do I have to restart my phone in order to see contact db changes? Closing and opening the contact app does not update changes.
<pngo> is there a command to force contacts/evolution to update?
<nhaines> krisabsinthe42: yay!
<krisabsinthe42> been looking at that BQ phone. is that actually supported yet?
<krisabsinthe42> nhaines: looks like it worked. Thanks for that!
<nhaines> krisabsinthe42: fantastic!  :D
<nhaines> krisabsinthe42: the BQ phone is fully supported.
<nhaines> Of course, it won't be out until the second week of February.  ;)
<krisabsinthe42> thats ok with me. I bought the nexus 4 because of the ubuntu support. kinda wanting a new one soonish
<nhaines> krisabsinthe42: we might have one or two to look at during SCALE.  :)
<krisabsinthe42> awww yeah
<krisabsinthe42> ive been trying to get a decent Linux phone since OpenMoko....what a waste of cash
<krisabsinthe42> nice, just found the telegram app
<krisabsinthe42> wow, touch has come a long way since I tried it last
<lotuspsychje> thats tnx to all the developers here
<lotuspsychje> its neat isnt it :p
<krisabsinthe42> yeah, last time I had to manually sync gmail contacts. automatic now, totally awesome. This is why I love open source
<uhhimhere> wish more phones had DTS support
<uhhimhere> that way more non-OS would be easily ported
<Scvairy> Is there any UEFIx86 builds of Ubuntu Touch? :c
<pngo> can someone tell me why avahi-browse does not show my others hosts on my local net?
<aqq> hey all
<aqq> how can i move a button? changing X,Y of position doesn't change anything
<axisys> ubuntu does not see the nexus 5. usb debugging is enabled.. what gives? running 14.10
<axisys> posted the question in #cyanogenmod as well
<danrik> wsup.
<danrik> go pats
<danrik> when is ubuntu touch phone gonna come out?
<k1l> it is already relased, isnt it?
<k1l> oh sorry, overread the "phone".
<k1l> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/12/bq-ubuntu-phone-launches-in-europe-this-february
<danrik> k1l, srsly. im gonna die waiting
#ubuntu-touch 2015-01-11
<danrik> k1l, ewww. how about something more hi-spec?
<k1l> time will tell
<danrik> k1l, k
<pngo> does ubuntu-touch supports synchronization of evolution data (syncevolution) over local lan/wifi?
<aquarius> hm. When I plug my Ubuntu Nexus 4 into my machine with USB, it doesn't show up in adb. Do I need to do something to make it do so?
<lotuspsychje> aquarius: here's a nice tutorial: http://itsfoss.com/install-ubuntu-touch-nexus-7-2013/
<lotuspsychje> just use nexus4 image instead
<aquarius> ahaha! I need developer mode turned on.
<aquarius> Now it is :)
<nhaines> aquarius: The only thing I hate about that is the need for PINs.  :)
<aquarius> nhaines, makes sense, though :)
<nhaines> aquarius: I was never convinced.  :)
<aquarius> hm. mirscreencast can't actually record a video because it drops about nine frames out of ten. Sigh.
<nhaines> aquarius: yeah, I noticed.  :(  I spent hours on Wednesday recording off-screen footage.
<aquarius> just tried piping the output of mirscreencast into netcat and then picking it up on my main machine, which helps quite a bit
<aquarius> but it still isn't perfect.
<nhaines> aquarius: http://i.imgur.com/NtV8BwC.png
<aquarius> "nc -l -p 1234 > out" on my main machine; "mirscreencast -n 600 -m /var/run/mir_socket -s 360 640 --stdout | nc mainmachine 1234" on the phone, and then "mencoder -demuxer rawvideo -rawvideo fps=6:w=360:h=640:format=bgra -ovc x264 -o out.mp4 out" to make a sensible mp4 on the main machine once recording is stopped. It still isn't anything even close to perfect, but it does stop the phone basically locking up whil
<aquarius> e recording is going on
 * nhaines can't wait until Kazam is ported to Mir.
<aquarius> http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2015/01/11/ubuntu-phone-screencasting-a-minor-tip/ written at least which should give someone the thought
<aquarius> I'd like kazam too :)
<aquarius> I think something's broken with the Kit that I have for compiling things for an Ubuntu arm device. How do I destroy it and create a new onw?
<aquarius> aha https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/sdk/tutorials/building-cross-architecture-click-applications/ explains it
<ogra_> aquarius, for mirscreencast you might want to take a look at the --cap-interval option ... recording with 50fps (which the display uses) will indeed make the device go slow
<aquarius> ogra_, hm, that seems useful! thank you
<popey> aquarius: thanks for writing up that netcat stuff, I'd been pondering using that method
<aquarius> popey, no worries
<popey> you can probably get away with ~15 fps for a demo video
<popey> unless it's a fast paced game
<aquarius> in theory
<aquarius> however I've just tried using --cap-interval and something isn't working
<aquarius> not sure what I'm doing wrong; video is corrupt
<aquarius> I shall keep trying
<aquarius> "--cap-interval 4" for 15fps, right?
<aquarius> ah
<aquarius> the screen is 768 wide, not 720 :P
<aquarius> doh.
<popey> heh
<aquarius> however, even with cap-interval 4 I don't capture a smooth video :(
<aquarius> is specifying a smaller size to mirscreencast with -s a good idea? I don't know whether that will make it better (because there's less data) or worse (because it has to resize each frame after capturing it, which is extra work)
<popey> dunno
<popey> i am just trying with full-res
<aquarius> that was probably more an ogra_ question :P
<aquarius> the nc stuff works fine for me, which is handy
<aquarius> I'm pretty confident that the problems I'm having are just that mirscreencast can't capture frames fast enough
<popey> for me its running forever
<popey> only with -n 600
<popey> will play more later. need to cook
<popey> aquarius: how about piping through gzip? â»
<popey> with minimal compression, assuming network is the bottleneck?
<aquarius> I don't think that network is the bottleneck
<aquarius> that would make things back up in the network buffer, but I don't think that that's what's happening; I think that mirscreencast isn't capturing the frames, not that it's capturing them but having to throw them away because the network's backed up
<aquarius> but I'm testing that to find out
<aquarius> or, rather, I would be if the phone hadn't locked up solid again, grrr
<aquarius> aha!
<aquarius> resizing *is* a good idea
<aquarius> I get pretty smooth video with mirscreencast -n 60 -m /var/run/mir_socket --stdout --cap-interval 4 -s 384 640 | nc dawn.home 1234
<aquarius> and the video I get out the far end is the right length, too
 * aquarius updates blog post
<ogra_> hmm ... so i have mplayer working on my krillin ... i can stream audio but sadly not video (-vo sdl just causes a reboot after garbling the screen, other -vo options (except null) dont work at all)
<ogra_> oh, because it is only built for SDL1.x perhaps ...
<gcollura> aquarius, I don't have mencoder, do you know if I can do the same with avconv?
<aquarius> gcollura, I'm sure you can, but I don't know how; I stole that mencoder line from willcooke
<aquarius> you get to work out how to read raw video with avconv, I'm afraid :)
<gcollura> aquarius, ok don't worry :)
<ogra_> in case someone is interested http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/ubuntu-touch/mplayer.tgz (just cd to /home/phablet/mplayer after untarring and run "./run-mplayer.sh <url or file>")
<gcollura> aquarius, here's the command for avconv
<gcollura> avconv -f rawvideo -pix_fmt rgba -s 384x640 -r 6 -i output.raw -c:v h264 result.mp4
<gcollura> change -r 6 to the frame rate you need
<gcollura> you can even change -i filename to -i udp/tcp://localhost:<port> with some other tweaking I think
<pngo> I need help. I added public key to authorized_keys but still can not ssh to the phone. What is wrong?
<pngo> I get: Permission denied (publickey).
<Adrian47> Hello, I get "Failed to execute /init" in kmesg when trying to boot my port. Any tips how to repair it or finding solution?
<pngo_> I'm not sure where report this, but I had problem to ssh to the phone, and I had public keys in authorized_keys. The problem was that /home/phablet is 777 and should be 755 in order for ssh to work.
<netlore> I created an additional folder in /home/phablet and it is not visible via MTP.
<netlore> Welcome Zach...
<popey> pngo_: its not 777 here
<ZacharyIgielman> Hi!
<pngo_> popey; I just reinstalled ubuntu last night and that's what I had
<netlore> pngo: it's 755 here on "stable", but I have not re-installed recently.
<pngo_> looks like new image has that bug
<netlore> pngo: which channel are you on?
<pngo_> netlore: ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09-proposed
<netlore> Did I hear correctly, new stable release tomorrow?
<nhaines> Ooh, that would be fun.
#ubuntu-touch 2016-01-11
<dholbach> good morning
<adeen-s> good morning all. I already have my device sources for cm11.0. I do not want to download the source again. What do I have to change so that bootstrap uses my previously synced repo ?
<adeen-s> 14:20 < adeen-s> good morning all. I already have my device sources for cm11.0. I do not want to download the
<adeen-s> source again. What do I have to change so that bootstrap uses my previously synced repo ?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Learn Your Name In Morse Code Day! ð
<OerHeks> .- -. -.. -.--
<matv1> so forgive my ignorance on this but here is my question
<matv1> since we are commited to hybris to do most of the driverstuff and power management on touch/snappy/personal/whatever we are also commited to the android kernelversion. So that basically means 3.4 for the foreseeable future right?
<matv1> What does that mean for full convergence? Will that mean a kernel regression for Ubuntu desktop?
<matv1> ok so i know that we wont HAVE actual desktop anymore but we will be aiming to support x applications after convergence. I understand that we will have Mir being able to deal with X windowing so that's being solved, but what about current desktop/laptop systems  that for whatever reason rely -or perform better- on higher kernel versions then the one that is now shipping on touch?
<matv1> Is that a legitimate worry?
<tvoss> matv1, only the respective devices have to respect the android kernel versions, everything else evolves on its own timeline.
<matv1> tvoss sorry but I dont quite understand what you mean. Are you saying that the kernelversion we will be shipping will be device dependent?
<matv1> surely not?
<tvoss> matv1, sure, the kernel version differs
<matv1> tvoss ah. I had always assumed that full convergence also meant a unified kernelversion. Something for me to digest. Thanks!
<tvoss> matv1, well, ideally it would, but then there is reality :)
<matv1> tvoss I understand.
<extraymond> Hi! anyone konw how to set ubuntu touch on nexus 7 to vertical view?
<extraymond> The dash is not going vertical while the apps are.
<egon1> hi
<egon1> can i do anyhow a videochat with my ubuntuphone to a iphone 6s?
<mcphail> egon1: you can't, I'm afraid
<egon1> mcphail: you think it's really impossible even via skype not?
<mcphail> egon1: skype is not ported to the ubuntu phone
<v113> Hello
<egon1> but i found a uofficial skype in the ubuntustore
<v113> Is there a new tutorial for building  ubuntu touch??
<mcphail> egon1: not for video, i think
<egon1> mhmm
<mcphail> egon1: I think video calling is most likely to come via WebRTC. The last time I checked, there were still a couple of barriers to overcome
<egon1> webrtc is possible with ubuntubrowser?
<mcphail> egon1: almost but not quite
<mcphail> egon1: the framework plumbing for camera and mic isn't there yet, I think
<egon1> what a pitty...
<egon1> so i have to do it via notebook
<popey> mcphail, it's very close
<mcphail> popey: webrtc? nice
<popey> mcphail, http://imgur.com/a/7wV62
<popey> i just joined a random webrtc channel which happened to have a bunch of people in it, it joined, and my audio works but camera not yet
<mcphail> that's good to know. It'll be a step forward to get this working
<popey> yeah
<mcphail> might even placate studio_ for a minute ;)
<conkey3> R.i.P https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/daily
<conkey3> music-app 9 weeks ago
<conkey3> Successfully built
<ahayzen> conkey3, i think that is built by jenkins, which has been down/broken for a while
<conkey3> ahayzen, for 9 weeks :))
<ahayzen> conkey3, Victor has a recipe which runs on the coreapps https://launchpad.net/~vthompson/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<conkey3> ahayzen, thanks
<ahayzen> conkey3, note that is an unofficial PPA ;_)
<conkey3> noted ;P
<ahayzen> but should help in the interim period
<conkey3> Victor Thompson is the music app guy?
<conkey3> then i trust this ppa
<ahayzen> conkey3, yeah him and me are the main music-app devs
<conkey3> ahayzen,  nice :D
<extraymond> Anyone know how to tell which directory the touch music app should ask for?
<ahayzen> extraymond, what do you mean by "should ask for"?
<extraymond> ahayzen, I installed the app from vthompson's ppa but the app keeps telling me no music found. I placed all my songs under /home/user/music folder
<ahayzen> extraymond, for the desktop you need to restart or run the ms2 service (note it takes a while)
<ahayzen> extraymond, that's bug 1312739
<ubot5> bug 1312739 in mediascanner2 (Ubuntu) " [desktop] Music should run automatically mediascanner on start up" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1312739
<extraymond> ahayzen, is that something I have to do manually? I've restarted my pc several times.
<ahayzen> hmm
<ahayzen> extraymond, is the mediascanner2 package installed?
<extraymond> ahayzen, yes it is. How do I restart the service?
<ahayzen> extraymond, you should have mediascanner2.0 qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-mediascanner0.1 installed...
<extraymond> ahayzen, all installed correctly.
<ahayzen> extraymond, you can run $ mediascanner-service-2.0  to run in a terminal ... or $ restart mediascanner-2.0  ... to restart the service
<ahayzen> note it took 1hour and 40mins to run on my machine the other day :-/
<extraymond> ahayzen,   oops! "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::runtime_error'"
<ahayzen> interesting, extraymond which release are you on?
<extraymond> ahayzen, it's also scanning my video folder, and crashed after doing so.
<extraymond> ahayzen, I'm on 15.10
<ahayzen> IIRC, it didn't like webm files before
<ahayzen> extraymond, you can try making a file called ".nomedia" to tell it not to scan that directory
<extraymond> ahayzen, I'll try empty the video filder
 * ahayzen thinks it was .nomedia
<extraymond> ahayzen,  this sounds more appealing!
<ahayzen> :-)
<extraymond> ahayzen, it seems working! Is "Deleting 1234 files..." normal?
<extraymond> ahayzen, I assume its rearranging the folder right?
<ahayzen> if you just put the .nomedia in there, it was probably removing them from its database
<extraymond> ok! It's scanning my picture folder too XD not expecting this but seems nice.
<ahayzen> extraymond, yeah it takes a while :-/
<extraymond> ahayzen, thx! your advice is very helpful!
<ahayzen> extraymond, no problem, let me know if you have any further issues
 * ahayzen wonders if 15.10 will break when we move to the new QtMultimedia stuff...
<extraymond> ahayzen, seems like inevitable to me. But rapid development is always nice when its gaining features.
<ahayzen> yeah :-)
<extraymond> ahayzen, I wish I had more question to ask, but since I'm primary learning python right now, there seems to be little ground for me to take part...
<ahayzen> extraymond, the automated UI tests are written in Python :-)
<ahayzen> and QML is pretty easy to understand :-)
<extraymond> ahayzen, not much fun than writing scopes and lenses though.
<ahayzen> useful though :-)
<extraymond> I'll definitely try to learn QML after I get more familiar with python.
<extraymond> That's true XD
<extraymond> ahayzen, it seems gallery-app is working. But music app still shows zero song. And the weird thing is it is still scanning my video folder which I add it to .nomedia
<ahayzen> ugh :-/
<ahayzen> maybe video is mandatory, or it was .nomedia but something else
<ahayzen> extraymond, you have your music in ~/Music right ?
<extraymond> ahayzen, I think so, that work if I'm not in english locale desktop right? So its not Music but some localized name
<ahayzen> hmmm, i remember something about that but thought it was fixed
<ahayzen> extraymond, did you see it scanning your music folder in the log ?
<ahayzen> or is it still scanning?
<extraymond> ahayzen, nope...
<extraymond> It stopped at some picture file. "New file was created: /A/B/C
<ahayzen> extraymond, you could, check that there is nothing bad in the music-app log, check the mediascanner log to see if it scanned the folder, create a ~/Music and put some files in to see if that works
<ahayzen> either one of those
<extraymond> ahayzen, ehe I think I my .config/user.dirs.dirs was the reason behind all this...
<extraymond> ahayzen, it's pointing music folder to home/
<ahayzen> ah
<ahayzen> extraymond, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mediascanner-team/mediascanner2/trunk/view/head:/src/daemon/scannerdaemon.cc#L111
<extraymond> ahayzen, that means there might be a config conflict?
<ahayzen> extraymond, you've hit the case stated in the comment above, are you able to set the music directory to the correct one?
<extraymond> ahayzen, After I edited the dir config, it rolled back to point /home after xdg-user-dirs-update.
<ahayzen> :-/
<ahayzen> extraymond, it works on your other directories have they got different settings ?
<extraymond> ok! it's working now. After I xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update
<ahayzen> \o/
<extraymond> Weird gtk setting...
<extraymond> Shouldn't xdg-user-dirs-update take care of all things related?
<ahayzen> extraymond, maybe because in the code it is G_USER_DIRECTORY_MUSIC
<extraymond> ahayzen, sorry not really  sure what that is.. I'm very new to coding...
<extraymond> ahayzen, but mediascanner is scanning my music folder now, which is great!
<ahayzen> sweet :-)
<Fran_> How could I expand the size of the root partition in my Ubuntu phone BQ Aquaris E5?
<Fran_> Does anyone know how to do it?
<ogra_> why would you
<ogra_> (you would have to completely re-partition via the MTK flash tool...)
<Fran_> Because 2GB is not enough
<ogra_> for what ? its readonly, OTA updates heavily rely on that fact and apt cant work
<Fran_> I would like to install OpenCV and just installing some dependences the root partition is full
<ogra_> use a chroot or container then ... in the RW partition
<ogra_> lxc is ppreinstalled
<extraymond> ahayzen, new problems. After scanning, when I open music-app, it flashed for a sec for showing my albums, then it all went gone...
<ogra_> (and heavily used)
<Fran_> I tried to use chroot in the home directory
<ahayzen> extraymond, has it finished scanning? and if it has could you put the music-app log into http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/
<dobey> Fran_: you don't
<Fran_> but I had problems with the root permission of the chroot
<dobey> what problems?
<Fran_> What do you mean dobey?
<dobey> i mean you shoul duse a chroot
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> or an lxc container
<dobey> ogra_: all the lxc tools aren't pre-installed though
<ogra_> well, there is enough to fire one up :)
<dobey> ogra_: so you can't easily create a container without changing to rw and installing extra packages
<Fran_> I had problems like chroot: failed to run command `/bin/bash': Permission denied
<dobey> ogra_: right, but not create :)
<ogra_> you might have to assemble the image by hand for it though
<dobey> Fran_: oh, from the Terminal app?
<Fran_> by ssh
<ogra_> looks like you either used the terminal app (which wont allow chrooting) or used a wrong arch for he chroot itself
<Fran_> I followed that link http://askubuntu.com/questions/620740/recommended-way-to-install-regularcli-deb-packages-on-ubuntu-phone
<Fran_> for the chroot
<ogra_> well, dobeys answer there is pretty decent
<dobey> you followed the instructions in my answer?
<dobey> because they definitely work
<extraymond> ahayzen, 'APP_ID isn't set, the handler can not be registered' is this possible?
<dobey> i have multiple chroots on my nexus4 and use them all the time :)
<extraymond> ahayzen, I mean the possible cause?
<ahayzen> extraymond, that should be OK IIRC
<dobey> (use via phablet-shell, which is ssh over usb)
<Fran_> good to know that it should work :)
<ahayzen> extraymond, if you copy the whole log there i can have a look
<extraymond> ahayzen, you mean syslog in the log application?
<ogra_> Fran_, many devs use it that way
<dobey> if you're trying to build an app to put in the store that uses OpenCV, you'll actually need to include OpenCV stuff within your app's package anyway
<ahayzen> extraymond, the application log ... (what is output when you run qmlscene music-app.qml or however you are starting the app)
<ogra_> right
<Fran_> dobey, what directories did you bind mount to make chroot work properly?
<dobey> Fran_: i actually don't have anything bind mounted in them
<dobey> i haven't needed to bind mount anything for what i normally do in them
<Fran_> I see
<extraymond> ahayzen, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/14470665/
<dobey> i just "sudo chroot ." in the chroot dir, and export the locale variables to make some things be less noisy, then apt-get generally works fine and i can compile things
<extraymond> ahayzen, this is what I got afer I ran music-app in the terminal
<ahayzen> extraymond, blimey is that it? usually you get blasted with text lol
<dobey> i suppose i could figure out how to manually make an lxc out of the chroot, and then just use lxc to run it as a container instead, if i really needed to bind mount things
<dobey> but i am not quite sure how to do that manually yet, so i haven't put that in my answer
<ahayzen> extraymond, so what happens ? the app appears then disappears or ?
<dobey> bug if ogra_ or someone wants to e-mail me details on how to make that work, i'll gladly update the answer to include that ;)
<Fran_> is it possible to make the chroot in a SD card?
<extraymond> ahayzen, it just stay with the screen telling you you have no music in the music folder...
<ahayzen> ok
<ogra_> Fran_, technically yes .. practically i think you would need to manually remount it because by default it will get mounted with the nodev and noexec options
<ahayzen> which suggests mediascanner isn't giving it to us/hasn't found it
<dobey> Fran_: i think as long as it's ext instead of fat, it should be fine.
<dobey> Fran_: if it's a FAT filesystem, it will probably have issues
<Fran_> yes, you are right
<dobey> ogra_: i think by default, ext formatted SD cards don't get mounted at all, right?
<Fran_> I think that in a FAT fs it is not possible to make symbolic links
<dobey> Fran_: well, that and file permissions don't align with what linux needs as an OS
<Fran_> ok
<Fran_> then I will just go to make the chroot in the home folder
<Fran_> this aprtition has almost 14G so it is more than enough
<Fran_> *partition
<ahayzen> extraymond, putting up your ~/.cache/upstart/mediascanner-2.0.log maybe useful to check it is scanning correctly, but note that'll list all the music/photos/videos you have, so if you don't want to pastebin you could email to me or check yourself that in the log it states that it has found >0 music
<anpok_> hm is anyone working on supporting fitness trackers with ubuntu touch? .. or are there any supported devices already?
<dobey> and you might run into issues if you remove the SD card while some process is running from the chroot on it
<anpok_> i.e
<Fran_> yes, it doesn't worth
<anpok_> fitbit .. or nike .. or those devices from crane.
<extraymond> ahayzen, yes it says a whole range of music is scanned successfully.
<dobey> anpok_: i think most are BLE devices, so i think won't be possible until the BLE bits are ironed out and working with bluez5
<dobey> anpok_: and i think will probably also need additional stuff to enable pairing the devices in the UI, and having something in the system to communicate with them while the screen is off and such
<ahayzen> extraymond, hmmm you have qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-mediascanner0.1 installed ?
<dobey> anpok_: so the whole "background processing" bikeshed
<extraymond> ahayzen, after I add .nomedia to both the picture and video folder, now it shows in the music-app again... But not playable.
<anpok_> and i guess on top of that each has its own protocol and encoding...?
<anpok_> there is no health monitor standard, i guess?
<extraymond> ahayzen, yes that's installed.
<dobey> anpok_: yep
<dobey> anpok_: i think cwayne has played around with some stuff for fitness tracking though. so he's probably a good person to discuss some of this with
<ahayzen> extraymond, as in it shows media in the music-app ?
<extraymond> ahayzen, yes! its showing now, but not playable.
<ahayzen> extraymond, ok :-) i don't think i can play either...think it is some gst package missing
<extraymond> ahayzen, Thx for helping me all alone. Its advancing very much.
<Fran_> dobey: It is my first time using chroot, what should I put in the chroot folder?
<ahayzen> extraymond, let me try mine again as i'm on 15.10 as well
<ahayzen> extraymond, you get stuff like Warning: "No decoder available for type 'audio/x-flac'." and Error: "Your GStreamer installation is missing a plug-in." right ?
<dobey> Fran_: you unpack the vivid-daily-preinstalled-armhf.tar.gz (or whatever compression it is) into it
<dobey> Fran_: exactly as described in my askubuntu answer
<extraymond> ahayzen, that's the case! yeah!
<ahayzen> extraymond, cool, let me investigate why that is :-)
<anpok_> dobey thx
<Fran_> perfect
<anpok_> oh and looking at the privacy issues .. an own cloud backend would be on the wishlist too
<extraymond> ahayzen, that's enough exploring for me today! Gotta go now. Thx for the help XD
<ahayzen> extraymond, no problem, i'm suspected it is due to missing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good or something along those lines
<extraymond> ahayzen, it seems that's the problem with gstreamer shipping from 0.1 toward 1.0 where qt didn't catch up or something.
<extraymond> ahayzen, yes that's my guess too.
<ahayzen> then i progress to "jack server is not running or cannot be started" \o/
<ahayzen> extraymond, yeah it'll be the gst transition :-)
<ahayzen> extraymond, gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio aswell :-)
<ahayzen> extraymond, for whatever reason the now playing screen is empty for me, but i can hear it playing :-)
<ahayzen> extraymond, ah running the latest lp:ubuntu-ui-toolkit then makes it all work :_)
<extraymond> ahayzen, glad you found the root!
<ahayzen> extraymond, there are instructions in the README of how todo that (make it then do $ source export_modules_dir.sh)
<extraymond> ahayzen, I'll just wait for a ppa update then.
<ahayzen> extraymond, there is an SDK one i think, but not sure if it has been updated
<Fran_> dobey: I lost the connection
<extraymond> ahayzen, sdk staging ppa is working.
<Fran_> I had problems unpacking the file into the chroot folder
<Fran_> Cannot mknod: Operation not permitted
<dobey> Fran_: did you do the unpack with 'sudo' or as normal user?
<dobey> i forget but might need to do "sudo tar -zxvf" so the permissions are all correct
<dobey> although, i don't know what would be running mknod while unpacking a tarball
<ogra_> nothing ... there is a /dev inside usually
<ogra_> pre-populated by debootstrap
<dobey> right
<ogra_> (which is one of the reasons you need sudo when unpacking, else device permissions will be messed up)
<dobey> then again, i'm not 100% sure how tar handles device files, so maybe it recreates them with mknod
<ogra_> nah, tar is dumb
<dobey> well i just noticed that my answer didn't have 'sudo tar', so i just changed that :)
<ogra_> :)
<Fran_> as a normal user
<dobey> Fran_: sorry, yes, you need to unpack the tarball as root, so do it again with sudo
<dobey> hmm. now that we have bluez5 finally, i wonder what else is needed to get bluetooth working on nexus 5
<ogra_> integration of the android side ?
<dobey> ogra_: how different from the mako builds is it for hammerhead though?
<ogra_> no idea, i never looked into hammerhead
<mcphail> If I get a crash which brings up the Ubuntu splash screen with the dots, does this mean it was unity8 which crashed?
<dobey> mcphail: yes
<dobey> mcphail: as you can probably see by ls /var/crash/
<mcphail> dobey: cheers
<dobey> ogra_: do you have any idea if it's possible to do adb over bluetooth on ubuntu? :)
<ogra_> hah, not the slightest :)
<ogra_> i guess that would need quite some hackery
<ogra_> (just providing a BT serial tty with login prompt shouldnt be to hard i guess ... but doing adb will be harder)
<dobey> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11129817/adb-over-bluetooth-android
<dobey> that suggests in android  you can do it via bluetooth PAN
<dobey> but i don't know if we can do something similar with current ubuntu images
<ogra_> ah, that might work (thats similar to adb over TCP)
<dobey> i guess phablet-shell would need some changes to check for the bt connection and use that
<dobey> how do i set up a bluetooth pan connection to my phone anyway?
<dobey> hmm, i can pair it to my laptop, but apparently it has no profiles
<Jobo> My phone's 2nd SIM slot has stopped working? Tried switching SIMs around, they're working fine. It worked fine just last week
<Jobo> anyoen else tried this?
<Jobo> It says whatever SIM is in the 2nd slot is "unregistered" and keeps "searching"
<pmcgowan> Jobo, I have only seen that when the second sim was in fact no longer in service
<Jobo> I switched them around because I needed the other one, and it works perfectly fine in slot 1
<Jobo> pmcgowan ^
<Jobo> and now the other one, which also works fine in slot 1, is "unregistered"
<pmcgowan> hmmm
<pmcgowan> Jobo, what version and phone?
<Jobo> Aquaris E4.5, latest update
<pmcgowan> davmor2, dual sim working ok for you in latest?
<davmor2> pmcgowan: seems to be yes
<Jobo> I have DK and UK sims, and I was in Denmark last week using that SIM card (in slot 2). Today slot 2 has stopped working
<Jobo> Very suddenly
<davmor2> Jobo: has it stopped or has the sim run out of credit/got no connection assuming you are not in DK now
<Jobo> I put the SIM into slot 1 and it works fine
<Jobo> Just received some texts on it
<Jobo> And it's paid in advance for the next 3 months
<Jobo> So I can confirm that both SIMs work
<Jobo> And they work in slot 1, neither work in slot 2
<dobey> any physical impact to device recently (ie, dropped the phone or such)?
<davmor2> pmcgowan, Jobo: I don't see that here at all
<Jobo> No, I've never dropped it once and it's been in my pocket
<pmcgowan> Jobo, we have not heard other reports so far
<dobey> could be an electrical connection issue
<davmor2> Both sims registered and accepting calls and delivering calls
<dobey> proabably worth contacting bq support about it
<Jobo> Only thing is it's been exposed to cold weather by being in a backpack pocket while I've been walking around outside I guess, at 2 degrees C... shouldn't matter
<Jobo> Yes both SIMs working in slot 1
<Jobo> I'll try contacting BQ, thanks
<Jobo> Are you involved in the development of this phone or are you users?
<dobey> i don't work on the SIM-related stuff, but yes, there are plenty developers of ubuntu in this channel
<Jobo> Very nice, it's by far my favorite phone (tried all OS's). Picked it up for fun because it was cheap, but I absolutely love it and can't see myself using any other phone OS ever again. You nailed it
<ogra_> yay
<pmcgowan> wow great!
<dobey> nice
<davmor2> \o/
<Jobo> And it's so easy to see changes in every update, to actually see that things improve (not just code behinds) - very cool to have picked it up the first week it went on sale
<Jobo> Okay sent to BQ, thanks for your assistance
<mhall119> slangasek: do you have a moment to talk about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-image/+bug/1464754 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1464754 in Ubuntu system image "Support for Device aliases" [Undecided,New]
<BlackJohnny> hello
<BlackJohnny> does anyone know how to install into a click chroot libqtubuntu-media-signals.so.2.0.0
<BlackJohnny> ?
<BlackJohnny> i have a package for 1.0.0 but on my phone I have version 2.0.0
<BlackJohnny> and I have unresolved symbols issues :(
<dobey> where did you get 2.0.0 from?
<dobey> oh the package name is totally wrong
<dobey> BlackJohnny: ok, so where did you get a package for 1.0.0 then?
<BlackJohnny> dobey, apt-get install libqtubuntu-media-signals-dev:armhf works
<dobey> right
<BlackJohnny> dobey, but i get also libqtubuntu-media-signals1:armhf
<dobey> yes the package name is wrong
<BlackJohnny> dobey, and I want libqtubuntu-media-signals2:armhf
<dobey> there is no such package
<dobey> are you trying to use that library in an app you want to ship?
<BlackJohnny> dobey, but on my phone i have /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libqtubuntu-media-signals.so.2
<dobey> yes
<BlackJohnny> yes
<dobey> but the package is libqtubuntu-media-signals1, because someone didn't properly adjust the package name when changing the soname, at some point
<BlackJohnny> i want to build against the latest deployed os libraries
<dobey> if the -dev package is not installed by default in the SDK, then that API is not a part of the SDK
<BlackJohnny> i see
<dobey> it's not a stable supported API, and may change without warning
<BlackJohnny> i had to do some hacking to make the camera working and I
<BlackJohnny> linked against that to emit a textureCreated signal
<BlackJohnny> maybe i need to find another way around then
<BlackJohnny> i get this runing my app ... Cannot load library /opt/click.ubuntu.com/aieye.blackjohnny/0.1/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/Aieye/libAieyebackend.so: (libqtubuntu-media-signals.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)
<dobey> how did you link to an .so.1?
<dobey> anyway, yes, you shouldn't have to use that library to use the camera
<BlackJohnny> -lqtubuntu-media-signals
<dobey> weird
<BlackJohnny> not to use the camera
<dobey> are you building with the 14.10 click target?
<BlackJohnny> i want lose the VideoOutput render and do it myself using opengl
<BlackJohnny> and if i remove that the camera will not send me frame as it does not get the textureCreated signal
<dobey> BlackJohnny: i think you should talk to jhodapp probably to figure out a supported way to do what you want
<BlackJohnny> well ... i need to find another way
<BlackJohnny> i see, thank you than
<dobey> also, you should be using the 15.04 click target
<dobey> not 14.10
<BlackJohnny> it is 15.04
<BlackJohnny> did i say 14.10 somewhere?
<dobey> you didn't answer when i asked if it was 14.10
<BlackJohnny> ah
<BlackJohnny> ok
<dobey> but since you got the .so.1 i presuemd it was 14.10
<dobey> but i guess maybe your chroot doesn't have the overlay ppa enabled for some reason
<dobey> maybe you created it a long time ago
<BlackJohnny> i did
<dobey> i'd suggest trying to create a new one in the latest sdk
<dobey> although, i honestly have no idea if that will include the ppa, but i hope it does
<BlackJohnny> i will try with a VM
<BlackJohnny> thanks
<jhodapp> BlackJohnny, out of curiousity, why are you trying to directly use the qtubuntu-media API from your app?
<dobey> jhodapp: 16:15 < BlackJohnny> i want lose the VideoOutput render and do it myself using opengl
<jhodapp> dobey, yeah saw that, he also PMed me...thanks!
<dobey> ok cool
#ubuntu-touch 2016-01-12
<slangasek> mhall119: hi - bug #1464754, you said?
<ubot5> bug 1464754 in Ubuntu system image "Support for Device aliases" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1464754
<Guy1524> hey guys when I do adb reboot bootloader, it reboots without going into the bootloader
<Guy1524> I know adb works because it goes into recovery when I do adb reboot recovery
<Guy1524> oh I am using a samsung galaxy s2
<dobey>  Guy1524 it's "adb reboot-bootloader" you nned to use i think
<Guy1524> ok, im trying
<dobey> or maybe your device is just evil and doesn't liek rebooting tot he bootloader
<Guy1524> nope, that didn't work
<Guy1524> on the #android irc they said my device doesn't have a bootloader mode
<dobey> well, all android based devices are not equal. it's very probable that samsung locked things down in a way that "adb reboot bootloader" will not work
<dobey> http://www.askmefast.com/How_do_i_enter_a_samsung_galaxy_s2_I9100_into_bootloadermodem_mode-qna2466035.html#q4387229
<dobey> quick search for "galaxy s2 bootloader" gave me that
<dobey> anyway, time to sleep
<mhall119> slangasek: yeah, I'm curious how this would be implemented in udf itself
<slangasek> mhall119: udf could store its own alias table for device names; or it could pull aliases from some other site.  Either is probably easier than implementing it on the system-image server, I think
<mhall119> slangasek: so having the alias data hosted on the target server somehow would be okay?
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-touch-ota-9-to-enter-final-freeze-this-friday-more-new-features-landed-498757.shtml
<dholbach> good morning
<zzarr> hello! will the OTA-9 update (Jan 20 if I remember right) be based on vivid or xenial?
<seb128> vivid
<zzarr> okey seb128 thanks
<zzarr> will it be based on Qt 5.4 or 5.5?
<seb128> zzarr, you can check the content of the archive on https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/stable-phone-overlay/+packages ... the former it seems
<zzarr> thanks again seb128
<seb128> yw!
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Poetry At Work Day! ð
<robin-hero> zzarr, it will be release on 27th Jan, (it delayed by a week)
<zzarr> okey, thanks for the heads up robin-hero
<matv1> Can anyone confirm/deny that stored wpa2 enterprise wifi connection do not automatically connect anymore?
<matv1> more specifically mschapv2/peap authetication
<matv1> but im not sure if that specific auth method is related
<nandersson> Is it possible to tap into the RIL (Radio Interface Layer) on the Ubuntu-phone?
<matv1> in any case wpa personal always reconnects without issue. wpa2 enterprise doesnt do so
<Laney> bfiller: are you or your team still looking after ubuntu-keyboard? I just happened to notice that it has a few outstanding merge proposals including from community people that it would be nice to have reviewed.
<bfiller> Laney: yes we still look after ubuntu-keyboard, Elleo could help review some of the MR's
<Elleo> Laney: yep, will do; was a bit distracted with UDM stuff the past couple of cycles but back on keyboard stuff now
<Laney> thanks Elleo
<attente> hi robru
<robru> attente: hey buddy! What's up?
<attente> heh, i was told to get in touch with you about uploading a package to the archive
<attente> robru: it's the one from this PPA: https://launchpad.net/~attente/+archive/ubuntu/maliit-inputcontext-gtk/+packages
<robru> attente: well I don't have that power but I guess you want to use the train and do it yourself? Didn't I set you up for train usage already?
<attente> robru: i don't believe i have any such privileges
<attente> but if there's a way i can do it myself, that'd be great too
<robru> attente: OK gimme a sec.
<attente> great, thanks
<robru> attente: ok I added you in the group.
<robru> attente: manual source packages are a bit tricky, the train is optimized for building packages from MPs.
<robru> attente: so what you want to do is sign in at https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/ and click 'create request' and fill out the form as best you can
<attente> robru: ok, thanks!
<robru> attente: send me the link to the ticket once you're done
<attente> robru: https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/861
<robru> attente: ok, clear out the manual download urls field, that's used for something else.
<attente> sure
<robru> attente: the trick here is that I'm going to copy the source package into the PPA, and for that you do need me (or any core dev)
<robru> attente: oh also click 'assign' and run the jenkins job
<attente> robru: ok done. what happens now usually?
<robru> attente: ok, so if you look at the ticket it says you got assigned silo 18.
<robru> attente: so at this point you'd join #ubuntu-ci-eng and ask 'trainguards' if anybody can copy your package into the ppa. i'll do that now
<attente> robru: ok, thanks
<robru> attente: yw.
<robru> attente: so your package is now (re)building here: https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-018/+packages
<robru> attente: the ticket will automatically update with the status every 15min, and also you'll get pinged in #ubuntu-ci-eng once it's done and/or failed.
<attente> and after someone tests it, it gets moved to xenial archive?
<robru> attente: right, you need to test it, and you also need a core dev to test it (at least nominally) and then you need a core dev to hit publish on the ticket
<attente> ah, great. thanks for the tutorial, robru!
<robru> attente: you're welcome! documentation is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/citrain/LandingProcess
<robru> (which may or may not be up to date, please hassle me if something in there doesn't match reality)
<attente> robru: ok, thanks, i tried it and it's working
<robru> attente: great
<attente> care to give it a test run?
<robru> attente: sorry I'm pretty busy
<robru> attente: so you need to find a core dev to hit publish. my go-to people are ken vandine and mike terry
<attente> ok, i'll seek one out. thanks again for your help!
<robru> attente: you're welcome!
<attente> robru: super sorry about this, i'm going to abandon that request in order to make a minor fix to the version and changelog...
<robru> attente: no
<robru> attente: make a new package and I'll copy it in. you don't have to make a new request for every version of the packge
<attente> robru: ah, ok, sure. sorry again...
<robru> attente: no worries.
<robru> attente: how long will it take you to prep the package? I'm about to go for lunch...
<attente> robru: it's ok, take lunch, i'll have it ready by then
<robru> attente: alright, bbl
<robru> attente: ready?
<attente> robru: yep, i uploaded it again here: https://launchpad.net/~attente/+archive/ubuntu/maliit-inputcontext-gtk/+packages
<attente> it just fixes the version and date in the changelog
<robru> attente: oh, that version is lower than what was already in the ppa. so we really will have to abandon & reassign to get a fresh ppa to do this in
<robru> attente: dont' make a new request, just 'abandon' and then re 'assign' the same request
<robru> attente: then i'll copy it to the new ppa
<attente> robru: ok
<attente> robru: ok, can you copy the source package over?
<robru> attente: ok done.
<robin-hero> Hey all, as I see there are fixes for a bug in an older landing: http://people.canonical.com/~lzemczak/landing-team/ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/225.commitlog
<robin-hero> bug #1521186
<ubot5> bug 1521186 in Canonical System Image ""Media Player" should be translatable on Sound Indicator" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1521186
<robin-hero> But it is still untranslated for me (rc-proposed, bq e4.5, r227)
<robin-hero> any idea?
<dobey> robin-hero: the translations aren't finished yet?
<dobey> or haven't been pulled into the langpacks yet, if they have been translated
<dobey> the langpacks should be updated in a build sometime after the freeze happens, and all the string changes have landed in the image
<robin-hero> dobey, but I don't see the "Media Player" string in the .pot file: https://translations.launchpad.net/mediaplayer-app/
<dobey> ok, i'm not sure where it's supposed to appear exactly
<dobey> oh
<robin-hero> artmello, as I see you fixed this bug, could you give me some hints, thanks :)
<dobey> artmello: ^^ i see you marked the string for translation, but you didn't update the translation template to include it, so it's not being translated
<dobey> pmcgowan: ^^ seems bug #1521186 isn't quite fixed in lp:mediaplayer-app yet, as the .pot file wasn't updated
<ubot5> bug 1521186 in Canonical System Image ""Media Player" should be translatable on Sound Indicator" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1521186
<artmello> dobey, robin-hero: hey, thanks by pointing that. I will update the translation template and push to trunk
<robin-hero> artmello, thanks :)
<artmello> robin-hero: np :)
<krabador> static ip addres on wireless: how to set it?
#ubuntu-touch 2016-01-13
<muka> krabador, I think easiest would be setting it in router?
<krabador> muka, on ubuntu touch i mean
<muka> never tried it but try googling something like ubuntu static ip
<muka> not sure if it would work
<stary-101> does ubuntu touch have a real linux kernel?
<stary-101> like the same full fledged you get with ubuntu desktop
<popey> stary-101, kinda
<stary-101> as i understand it , it's a stripped linux kernal
<popey> stary-101, it's a linux kernel with patches to support the device
<stary-101> kernel
<popey> what specifically you after?
<stary-101> running software i run on my desktop on the phone
<stary-101> i use ubuntu desktop
<popey> such as?
<popey> the kernel isn't the issue here usually
<popey> it's the lack of X11
<popey> and the fact desktop apps aren't optimised for touch screens
<stary-101> what desktop manager does it use
<popey> It's Unity 8 / Mir
<stary-101> and compiled for ARM  i assume
<stary-101> the packages
<popey> yes
<popey> we have a fork of the main ubuntu arm archive
<stary-101> so in theory if i can compile my program for ARM
<popey> sure
<stary-101> without a gui, i should run it on ubuntu touch
<popey> whether it runs or not is another matter, depends what dependencies it needs
<stary-101> ow yeah of course
<popey> we do build all kinds of things for / on ubuntu phone
<stary-101> does it support javascript for a gui?
<stary-101> i seem to have read you can make html5 and js for apps
<popey> you can, yes
<stary-101> cool
<popey> qml, html5.. some apps are c++
<stary-101> nodejs?
<popey> we also have python & java apps
<popey> sure
<popey> i think so :)
<stary-101> why is there no iso, i can run on my phone?
<popey> because arm hardware doesn't work like pc x86 hardware
<popey> you have to port ubuntu to the device
<Elleo> stary-101: unfortunately phones aren't really standardised like desktop systems, so each phone needs an individual port, this page gives details on phones for which there are ports: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<popey> because arm
<stary-101> hmz
<stary-101> that's too bad
<popey> welcome to arm
<popey> what device do you have?
<stary-101> hahaha
<stary-101> s4
<stary-101> and i see the device has been abandoned
<popey> it's certainly a candidate
<popey> that someone could update the port - or re-do it
<popey> it's better specced than some devices we've seen ports for
<stary-101> wouldn't in theory : that you can compile a linux kernel for a device
<stary-101> for that type of phone
<popey> thats part of it, yeah
<stary-101> these installs are precompiled linux kernels right
<stary-101> specifically for that model
<popey> yes
<stary-101> before the linux kernel is loaded, the boot loader is loaded
<stary-101> that loads the kernel
<stary-101> and since the boatloader is just software, wouldn't it be possible to check the device, before the kernel is loaded
<popey> but the specific kernel version needs building for that device
<stary-101> so compiling the kernel before it is loaded is not possible?
<popey> no
<popey> e.g. the bq e4.5 is 3.4.67 with drivers for the mediatek SoC, the kernel for the OnePlus One is 3.4 with drivers for the Qualcomm SoC  etc
<stary-101> those are modules correct?
<popey> each device differs, even two devices from the same mfr with similar device names / numbers have different kernels
<popey> the SoC is the chip, "System On Chip" - CPU and other bits and bobs
<lpotter> most likely they are proprietary blobs
<popey> often comes with 3d / bluetooth / wifi / GSM etc
<popey> and yes, most of which have blobs for drivers.
<stary-101> so there wouldn't be a way to have a unified software that checks the hardware
<stary-101> before deciding to load which one
<popey> not on arm
<popey> not yet
<popey> maybe in 2 years or more
<stary-101> like a bios
<stary-101> sortof
<popey> still no.
<mcphail> stary-101: no BIOS on arm, which is a massive pain
<stary-101> so i'm i right to assume, the default boatloader on a linux device
<stary-101> is also different with every model
<mcphail> yes
<lpotter> and also proprietary, usually
<stary-101> hm
<stary-101> so what is needed is a instruction set that is common like x86
<popey> lots of things are needed
<popey> some of which are under discussion or development
<popey> but not ready yet
<mcphail> stary-101: there's also the complication of the RIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Interface_Layer which seems to be where most ports fail
<lpotter> might try the Fairphone https://www.fairphone.com/
<stary-101> is this because of vendor lock in
<mcphail> stary-101: ARM is just a mess
<mcphail> stary-101: then phone manufacturers add another layer of mess
<popey> unlike x86, there isn't just "x86" and "amd64", there's a ton of specifications set out by ARM (the company)
<stary-101> right
<popey> and each silicon manufacturer makes chips which follow those various specs
<popey> see raspberry pi, pi 2 for a simple example. one is armv6, the other is armv7
<stary-101> so in theory, if there were a x86-arm instruction set, this would mean, unified kernel?
<popey> the instruction set is well defined, that's not the problem
<popey> binary blobs for drivers is one big one
<mcphail> stary-101: the instruction set isn't the issue
<popey> lack of ACPI type things is another
<popey> device discovery is missing in arm
<stary-101> is the many different configurations the manufactures use
<stary-101> with different hardware components
<stary-101> *it's
<stary-101> (just trying to wrap my head around all of this :) )
<mcphail> stary-101: and, on phones, the interface to the completely separate and proprietary operating system running in the radio layer
<popey> yeah, all phones have effectively two operating systems
<stary-101> mcphail: wouldn't that layer still be higher level than the kernel
<popey> one that you see, that you interact with, and a completely separate one you never see
<popey> not higher, side by side
<mcphail> stary-101: nothing to do with the kernel
<popey> different cpu
<popey> like having two computers in one case.
<stary-101> hm
<stary-101> wth?
<popey> one being very tiny and dedicated to one task - dealing with radio communications
<stary-101> a radio processor?
<popey> yeah
<popey> baseband processor
<stary-101> so there is a seperate firmware for the radio processor
<stary-101> which interacts with the main os
<popey> yeah
<mcphail> stary-101: I hope, one day, there will be a "one-click" way to build Ubuntu for any device which has a Cyanogenmod port, stealing the work which has already  been done by their porters
<popey> would love that too
<stary-101> that is what made linux big
<popey> the porting guide could then become sentient and go out finding devices to port
<popey> and port them
<stary-101> running it on any computer at home
<popey> whether the owner wants it or not
<mcphail> ha!
<popey> i disagree
<popey> android is way bigger than any linux distro
<stary-101> i think the server world is still bigger
<stary-101> isn't it?
<popey> depends how you define size
<popey> number of activated android handsets per day is a scary number
<popey> 1.5 million _per_ _day_ last number I saw
<mcphail> popey: more than the 1 billion Ubuntu users ;p
<stary-101> yeah but what i mean is that , when linus himself went out and bought unix
<popey> nearly
<stary-101> he decided to make something that can run for everyone right
<popey> sure, and my kids and older relatives can use android
<popey> which has linux under it
<stary-101> yes
<popey> so he kinda succeeeded there
<stary-101> on another note
<stary-101> you think steamos is going to change gaming for ubuntu
<stary-101> or linux in general
<popey> who knows
<popey> I certainly have way more games on my Linux machine now than I did 3 years ago
<popey> so "yay"
<stary-101> yeah because game engines are now being designed with linux in mind
<stary-101> funny thing , 14 years ago i met someone who said that linux is going to be big
<stary-101> way before android of course
<stary-101> i thought he was mad
<stary-101> so i didn't spend my time on it, but just tested a few distros
<stary-101> way back then, the interfaces were horrible
<stary-101> but alas, we are here today
<popey> Yeah, first time I heard about Linux I thought the guy was demented
<popey> Who wants _that_!?
<popey> Shows how wrong you can be
<stary-101> i still think that program installation on linux
<stary-101> can be way more user friendly
<stary-101> linux pointed that out not too long ago, that , that needs to be worked on
<stary-101> *linus
<stary-101> something unified
<stary-101> the standard installation package for linux
<stary-101> as simple as an exe or dmg
<stary-101> wouldn't that be something
<stary-101> exe is noob-friendly, as is dmg,   tar not so much
<popey> People don't install tarballs on ubuntu phone :)
<stary-101> i just mean linux in general
<popey> right
<stary-101> on android it's even more noob-friendly than exe
<popey> it's 2016, people use package managers
<stary-101> new users to linux expect to install files from the web
<stary-101> i agree that using a package manager is friendly
<stary-101> but installing software from the web, is what people expect
<stary-101> do you agree?
 * popey shrugs
<popey> It appears to be my bed time. nn
<stary-101> ok good night
<lpotter> do you mean untrusted apps from anywhere?
<lpotter> or just generally downloadable apps
<stary-101> generally downloadable apps
<stary-101> as general as possible
<stary-101> like an exe or dmg
<genii> Linspire already tried the "install from web" approach with linux and CNR, didn't go over that well
<lpotter> sure. thats why there are app stores
<stary-101> app stores yes, but what if you just made a program, and represented it on your website
<stary-101> for mac, i can just download the dmg, for windows, the exe
<lpotter> then you mean untrusted apps
<stary-101> well my former referencing was to linus who said there is no common software package for linux in general
<lpotter> linux has package mangaer that do that.
<stary-101> but what if i have an installtion file i wanted to send to you
<lpotter> linux has 3 generally - rpm, deb and tgz
<stary-101> right
<stary-101> which one would you say is the most user friendly
<lpotter> click on it in gui filemanager will open/install
<lpotter> its not hte file that makes it user friendly, it's the package manager
<stary-101> what about a unified solution?
<lpotter> why does there need to be one?
<stary-101> wouldn't it be the most friendly way?
<lpotter> just like theres not just one gui for linux
<stary-101> like all versions of windows use mainly .exe, all mac versions use dmg
<stary-101> right!
<lpotter> those file types are built around just one company each
<lpotter> linux is many companies
<stary-101> but used by billions
<stary-101> of use cases
<lpotter> I dont see the problem
<lpotter> each distribution has its own way of installing apps
<stary-101> let's say there is no .deb or rpm just a tgz file of an application
<stary-101> is tgz noob-friendly?
<lpotter> you can't install an exe on mac or a dmg on windows
<stary-101> i know, but the kernel is completely different in those cases
<lpotter> its not the file that make it user friendly, it that app handler
<lpotter> if you use a tgz based distro, the app handler can pop up the app installer
<stary-101> one simple example
<stary-101> tgz files under linux are installed through extracting, configure, make, make install
<stary-101> right?
<lpotter> not necessarily
<popey> Also, nobody does that. It's 2016, not 1999
<genii> tgz files can contain anything. whether it's the source code to make the app, or whether it contains the binaries, or anything else, is unknown until you extract it
<stary-101> let's say i am a linux noob
<lpotter> popey: gentoo does that, I believe :)
<stary-101> and i get a tgz file
<popey> Again, 2016 :)
<popey> You ask an expert
<popey> Just like you would if you were a windows noob
<popey> or mac noob
<genii> ...also, as for installing apps onto Ubunto from web... isn't there still https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/  ... ?
<popey> and they solve your problem though direct help and education
<stary-101> no if i get a dmg or exe i can just install it mostly
<stary-101> i don't need to ask an expert
<popey> stary-101, you're re-making the same point over and over for an hour now
<popey> _you_ might not need to ask an expert
<popey> my mum would
<stary-101> forget it then
<popey> my mother in law has a mac, never installed anything
 * mcphail coughs, a rather odd sound which resembles "#ubuntu-offtopic or ##linux"
<stary-101> ill give you the video were linus adresses his frustration with the different installation methods for distro's
<mcphail> stary-101: would you be kind enough to move this discussion elsewhere? It is offtopic in this channel
<stary-101> i don't agree it's off topic were are talking about the fundemental core sofware that ubuntu is based upon, as is ubuntu touch
<stary-101> but for the sake of it, yeah why not
<mcphail> Thank you
<stary-101> ill skip this channel when talking about anything related to the kernel, and mostly talk about specific ubuntu touch related topics
<stary-101> which you the best of luck
<stary-101> wish
<lpotter> I think Linus should stick to making the kernel better... and more unified
<dobey> what is going on here
<dobey> lol was that studio again
<genii> Most likely. Same modus operandi
<dobey> indeed
<fella> hello fellas and fellows
<fella> I am looking for a chat buddy to help me with an issue
<fella> I am looking for a chat buddy to help me with an issue
<fella> i have an RCS Viking PRO 10 and want to install Ubuntu Touch. How can I kno if an install on this device will be successfull?
<fella> *RCA
<fella> Is there no one in this room?
<lpotter> I'm here
<lpotter> I guess the measure of success is booting into ubuntu touch :)
<lpotter> hmm I guess he left/
<lpotter> bummer.. web media player stops playing when phone display blanks :(
<Mirv> we're still waiting for the future where issues related to app lifecycle management have solutions
<Mirv> meanwhile, power users tend to install openstore + tweakgeek so they can allow background running of eg terminal + whatever they want
<lpotter> ahh... heh
<lpotter> I would think background audio from web would be rather important use case
<lpotter> media player doesnt stream either...
<lpotter> much better
<elimisteve> popey: In an Ubuntu Phone Community Q&A it was mentioned that "scopes are about to get a lot better". Is that coming soon? Is it clear which APIs will be added?
<elimisteve> popey: this was from probably 2 months ago, IIRC
<dholbach> good morning
<adeen-s> how do i fix the" no rule to make target for dtbtool" error ?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy Skeptics Day! ð
<robin-hero> Morning JamesTait, I don't believe that today is Skeptics day! :P :D
<JamesTait> That's the spirit, robin-hero!
<robin-hero> :D
<ogra_> hmm, my flo is in a reboot loop since todays rc-proposed update
<ogra_> ah, now it came up after 8 reboots (5 of them evenb without any splash after the google logo)
<conkey3> ogra_, that's not good!
<conkey3> ogra_, arale seems fine
<robin-hero> krillin too
<JHOSMAN> Hello, i have this problem with MultiRom (Custom for Ubuntu Touch OnePlus ONE) http://i.imgur.com/kRbMBz9.jpg i read this guide  https://wiki.ubports.com/w/OnePlus_One#How_to_install_Ubuntu_Touch_using_MultiRom
<JHOSMAN> you can help me to install Ubuntu Touch in OnePlus One?
<JHOSMAN> With dualboot
<pmcgowan> popey, do you have oneplus one
<dobey> mariogrip: ^^ JHOSMAN is trying to install opo with multirom
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: https://wiki.ubports.com/w/OnePlus_One#How_to_install_Ubuntu_Touch_using_MultiRom
<JHOSMAN> multirom from Google Play says "This divice no compatible" dobey
<mariogrip> oh, is the cache full?
<mariogrip> do you have adb?
<dobey> i don't have an opo, nor use android, so i can't really help :)
<mariogrip> or a terminal app downloaded?
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: https://forums.ubports.com/topic/26/how-to-install-ubuntu-touch-via-multirom/1
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: no, cache no full, Although, I could tell as I check?
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: adb? why?
<popey> pmcgowan, i do
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: With adb you can use adb shell to get terminal
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: but, if you have a terminal app that will work to
<popey> i dont do dual boot tho, and mariogrip is the right guy :)
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: we need to check if cache is full, and if it's mounted at all
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: yes im adb shell
<mariogrip> first try ls -la
<mariogrip> ls -la /cache
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip:  http://i.imgur.com/sx6Q3kb.png
<mariogrip> oh, sorry i ment -lh
<mariogrip> ls -lh /cache
<mariogrip> but, just wipe cache
<JHOSMAN> ls: Unknown option '-h'. Aborting.
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: for me it looks like cache might be full, can you try to wipe cache?
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip:  can you give me a command from adb? (btw I have the 64GB version and have plenty of room)
<mariogrip> just do rm -r /cache/*
<ogra1> &
<JHOSMAN> ok no?
<JHOSMAN> now?
<mariogrip> then try multirom again
<JHOSMAN> reboot :D
<mariogrip> did it work?
<JHOSMAN> Injecting boot image
<mariogrip> yey :)
<JHOSMAN> You should edit the Wiki to keep that in mind, I was really lost.
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: Yeah, i'll do that. i'm working on a new wiki, so I'll make sure to add that in
<JHOSMAN> my phone no boot now! :E
<JHOSMAN> black screen
<mariogrip> log?
<JHOSMAN> no no log
<JHOSMAN> i reboot now, watiing...
<mariogrip> does mulitrom work, where you can switch between android and ubuntu? or nothing works?
<JHOSMAN> Android does not start, was just installing MultiROM. Android screen goes black.
<JHOSMAN> $ adb shell error: device not found
<JHOSMAN> android not start
<mariogrip> what rom did you use?
<mariogrip> did you install correct kernel??
<JHOSMAN> One OnePlus buttons are on light
<JHOSMAN> I use OxigenOS (opo rom oficial)
<JHOSMAN> yes i installthe correct kernel 5.0.x
<mariogrip> but did multirom work? did you see a screen like this? http://i.imgur.com/vUYXIiz.png
<JHOSMAN> no
<JHOSMAN> in boot only black screen
<JHOSMAN> OxygenOS no boot
<mariogrip> ok, then we will just flash back to oxygen kernel
<JHOSMAN> You can help me? :(
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: Yes
<JHOSMAN> :)
<JHOSMAN> a moment
<JHOSMAN> Multirrom appears
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: Does android work now then?
<JHOSMAN> no
<mariogrip> Im gonna find the oxygen kernel
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: I disconnected the USB cable, restart the phone and MultiBoot appeared, I selected Android, but Android does not start. On top of that came the option of Ubuntu.
<JHOSMAN> ok I waitting oxigen Kernel
<JHOSMAN> :)
<JHOSMAN> I think you can document a lot with this case :) :P
<mariogrip> jup :P
<mariogrip> try flashing this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98135991/multirom/multirom_uninstaller.zip
<mariogrip> using recovery
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: did that work?
<JHOSMAN> im working :)
<JHOSMAN> adb push multirom_uninstaller.zip /sdcard
<tedg> mdeslaur: mterry: do you guys remember why we don't have a keyring on the phone? Was it just because we didn't use PAM originally?
<JHOSMAN> and flashing!
<JHOSMAN> im reboot
<mterry> tedg, we started using PAM relatively quickly...  But it's true we did have a very initial gap
<tedg> Yeah, I just didn't know if the seed kinda got made in that gap.
<mterry> tedg, but I think in general we didn't want to password prompts (for unlocking the keyring or whatever)
<tedg> That doesn't happen with the PAM module, right?
<mterry> tedg, general approach being to use services to proxy access to things rather than granting apps full access to passwords
<mterry> tedg, oh sure you can unlock at login time.  But then there's just open season on the passwords
<mterry> tedg, I guess we're confined and all...
<JHOSMAN> ok mariogrip , Android does not load, it stays on the logo OnePlus. now?
<tedg> Sure, but a keyring would be more for services to store things encrypted instead of implementing the encryption themselves.
<mterry> tedg, sounds like we're getting into tvoss territory
<tedg> The specific use case here is storing network passwords for network manager. It wouldn't be for apps.
<tvoss> tedg, what for exactly?
<tedg> Last thing we want is people implementing their own encryption :-)
<mariogrip> can you reboot to recovery and send me last_kmsg - adb pull /proc/last_kmsg
<tedg> tvoss: VPN
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: ^
<mdeslaur> tedg: we didn't have keyring mediation to prevent one app from getting secrets for another app
<tedg> mdeslaur: So for trusted services though, there wouldn't be an issue.
<mdeslaur> tedg: network manager doesn't use the keyring anyway, AFAIK
<mdeslaur> (well, at least for wifi stuff)
<tedg> mdeslaur: I believe this is for VPN credentials
<tedg> I was chatting with pete-woods about it, he might have more details there.
<mdeslaur> oh, for the vpn, yeah, it probably does
<JHOSMAN> ~ # last_kmsg - adb pull /proc/last_kmsg /sbin/sh: last_kmsg: not found
<tvoss> tedg, okay, so we are talking about one trusted piece talking to another trusted piece
<mdeslaur> tedg: that's all I can think of, pam
<tedg> tvoss: Correct
<JHOSMAN> excuseme
<tvoss> tedg, so correct me if I'm wrong, but we own all the pieces of the puzzle, don't we?
<tedg> I had suggested we just seed a keyring, but I wanted to make sure that was sane.
<tedg> tvoss: Kinda, I think that the VPN plugins are the ones that want to use the fd.o DBus API for secrets.
<tedg> tvoss: We write the command-and-control but the implementations are NM.
<tvoss> tedg, okay, but we still control the installed plugins, correct?
<JHOSMAN> file no exist
<V99> bq aquaris E5 is compatible with multiboot?
<tedg> tvoss: Correct. Though I've heard opening the source to them requires an extra day of sick pay.
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: http://i.imgur.com/aAxtGLs.jpg
<tvoss> tedg, sure, kinda expected
<tvoss> tedg, with that, seeding a keyring is probably good enough, under the assumption that we have a minimal keyring service running (that is, with anything ui patched out)
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN:  try flashing this kernel: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98135991/multirom/cm12.zip
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: I cannot find the oxygen os kernel
<tedg> tvoss: Makes sense to me, don't want to write the PAM/encryption/security pieces. You do that then you have to spend time with the security team, then you get paranoid about everything! ;-)
<tvoss> tedg, I like those guys, and I think tinfoil hats are a great accessoire ;)
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: i go to files oxygenos
<tvoss> mariogrip, check your pn
 * tedg knits a tinfoil scarf for tvoss
<tvoss> fancy
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: how to flash this?  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98135991/multirom/cm12.zip
<mariogrip> with the recovery
<JHOSMAN> ok
<JHOSMAN> i install cm12.zip and Android no boot
<JHOSMAN> appears only Logo of OnePlus =(
<JHOSMAN> :'(
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: I checked the installer OxygenOS, but has no file Kernel.
<mterry> jdstrand, tyhicks: one add-on to the "separate lockscreen password" conversation -- so if we just stick it in AS, it doesn't require having the old password to change it.  Just be an unconfined user process.  Is that acceptable?  It's "just" the lockscreen password, but malicious actors could still annoy there -- being locked out of your laptop / phone is not great
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: Just flash all of the oxygenOS zip, that shoud work
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: i need reinstall all oxygenOS?
<JHOSMAN> =(
<tyhicks> mterry: that's fine - that'd be no different than if it were in a file in the user's home dir
<tyhicks> mterry: I do want jdstrand's ack before we move forward with that, though
<mterry> tyhicks, yeah...  we *could* get complicated and have a root daemon managing access etc
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: No, just flash over it like an ota
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: it will not delete anything, it will just work as an update
<tyhicks> mterry: well, there's still the issue of what happens if the lock screen and admin passwords are set to the same password
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip:  You can orient myself, I lost myself. This is the installer OxyogenOS, now what? http://oxygenos.oneplus.net/oxygenos_1.0.0.zip
<tyhicks> mterry: will AS simply hand over the lock screen password to any process that asks for it or will processes submit guesses to AS?
<mterry> tyhicks, I don't remember a problem with that case?  You mean it's just easier to brute force lockscreen, and that might give you admin?
<tyhicks> mterry: yes
<mterry> tyhicks, well we *could* add API to AS to be clever.  But the easiest solution is to just drop the crypted password as an AS property that it exposes to any unconfined app.
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: Unzip it, and flash oxygenos_1.0.0.flashable.zip in recovery. but are you sure 1.0.0 is the version that you have installed?
<tyhicks> mterry: hrm... that would lower the security of the system since any unconfined process could brute force the password without any sorts of delays
<tyhicks> there'd be no limits on guesses, etc.
<JHOSMAN> :P
<JHOSMAN> is https://s3.amazonaws.com/oxygenos.oneplus.net/ONE_12_A.01_150827.zip
<mterry> tyhicks, I thought you guys already said you didn't care about delays on the lockscreen password.  But you're right that it would be easier to brute force
<mterry> tyhicks, (My memory of that is from a long time ago, when considering pam config delays in Touch)
<tyhicks> mterry: I don't remember that but wouldn't be surprised if you're right
<tyhicks> mterry: I don't know if I thought about the case where the two passwords were the same
<mterry> tyhicks, yeah well that's a new wrinkle -- note that the user would have to specifically set a lockscreen password that is the same as the admin.  If the user chooses the UI option "same as admin password", we just don't store anything in AS
<JHOSMAN> ok wait please. I download the file
<tyhicks> mterry: we should discuss what the architecture should look like
<tyhicks> mterry: you mentioned using AS the other day but have you considered simply writing a new pam module that checks a file other than /etc/shadow and using a different pam config for the lockscreen and calling into that pam module instead of pam_unix?
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: http://i.imgur.com/k1XWioR.png
<mariogrip> ok, you can take boot.img and flash it using fastboot
<mterry> tyhicks, I'm going to have to write a PAM module anyway.  But AS was easy to use as a storage medium (and meant we could stuff all metadata about the password -- should it be displayed as pin? -- in the same place for easy atomic updating)
<JHOSMAN> Ok, i go!
<mterry> tyhicks, PAM doesn't really offer a way to convey metadata past overloading the prompt string and having UIs interpret that (to my knowledge...)
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: fastboot flash boot boot.img
<JHOSMAN> ????
<tyhicks> mterry: yeah, I'm not sure how much metadata can be conveyed
<tyhicks> mterry: note how there are /etc/pam.d/lightdm{,-autologin,-greeter}
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: yes
<JHOSMAN> ok
<mterry> tyhicks, yeah I'll restrict usage of my module to the appropriate lightdm contexts
<mterry> tyhicks, and maybe overriding prompt string is enough metadata for the UI to present (since we can assume anyone using this module is aware of the prompt situation), but I'm not sure how to set whether it's a PIN or not when changing the password via PAM...
<JHOSMAN> Booting! now :D
<mterry> tyhicks, the way I currently handle this is to store a display hint in AS and update pam separately
<mterry> tyhicks, but I was hoping to use a more tightly integrated solution here
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: You can give me the instructions to proceed with the installation of Ubuntu Touch?
<mterry> tyhicks, since that's a little brittle (and code has to be very careful to roll back changes if one of the updates doesn't take)
<tyhicks> mterry: looking at the passwd man page, I'm curious about the -r option
<tyhicks> mterry: I wonder if that allows us to have a different /etc/shadow that is for lockscreen passwords
<tyhicks> (the metadata issue is still a potential problem)
<mterry> tyhicks, interesting...  And then simply use that when reading/setting.  We could keep existing infrastructure for metadata I guess.  I was just hoping to make it nicer.  Let me think about that
<tyhicks> mterry: I don't see a corresponding repository option to pass to pam_unix but adding a bit of code to pam_unix is much easier than writing a new module from scratch
<mterry> tyhicks, ugh really?  I'd think we would want to avoid touching pam_unix at all costs :)
<tyhicks> mterry: we'd get to reuse all of the shadow handling code for free
<tyhicks> mterry: it'd be easy to get right between review from myself, sarnold, and slan gasek
<mterry> tyhicks, so we use the pam API in unity8 (can that set a different repository via the C API? -- presumably, if passwd can) and we ask AS to set the password for us in System Settings (so we'd have to patch it too to understand the new place... and when to use it over the normal shadow file)
<tyhicks> mterry: is AS still needed?
<mterry> tyhicks, AS is used today to proxy requests to set the password, since you need root to do that...  for some reason.  It does something during that process that needs root...
<tyhicks> ok
<mterry> tyhicks, oh to delete the password I think?
<tyhicks> oh, maybe
<mterry> tyhicks, because one of our options is to use swipe which is no-password
<tyhicks> mterry: interesting :)
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: I read that oxygen does not work with multirom
<tyhicks> mterry: this might be a crazy idea but I think it is worth considering so that we reuse everything that PAM already provides - someone down the road might require that we limit lock screen password guesses, they may want to store the lock screen in ldap, etc.
<tyhicks> s/store the lock screen in ldap/store the lock screen password in ldap/
<mterry> tyhicks, I'm on board with re-using PAM -- my existing solution was already going to be a PAM module (just with AS as data storage)
<mterry> tyhicks, but yeah if a separate repository is easier, that's good
<tyhicks> mterry: it still needs a bit more investigation to see how feasible it is
<mterry> tyhicks, yah I'll look into how much change it would be, but I bet it's easier than maintaining a new module
<mterry> tyhicks, and probably just as much config changes around the place as a new module would be anyway
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: what Roms that support the functionality?
<tyhicks> mterry: that's true
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: Cyanogenmod
<JHOSMAN> If necessary I can change OxygenOS other.
<JHOSMAN> I see forums of OnePlus whit CM
<JHOSMAN> But if I consider important to put what we find today with the mobile and the official version of OnePlus (OxygenOS)
<JHOSMAN> in the wiki documentation
<JHOSMAN> CM12 or CM13?
<simox> hello
<simox> can i make a question here about ubuntu-phone?
<lotuspsychje> simox: yes
<simox> thanks
<simox> i am experiecing problems while i try to download files from gmail..
<simox> usually with .doc file..
<simox> they won't be automaticaly loaded by document viewer..
<simox> do you have the same issues?
<lotuspsychje> simox: i dont think document viewer can handle .doc files yet
<simox> are you sure? it did open some documents under libreoffice for me but only those already saved to my SD..
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: cm12
<simox> i think there must be a gap between webbrower-app and document viewer... docs must be downloaded before the program tries to open them
<tyhicks> mterry: I think we're out of luck with that idea because the -r option isn't what we thought it was
<tyhicks> mterry: I don't see a way to specify a different shadowdb in the shadow tools, pam (except for pam_extrausers), or glibc
<mterry> tyhicks, bummer
<mterry> tyhicks, ok so that leaves us with full-PAM (new module, with custom storage locale, and either separate metadata in AS or via prompt) *or* semi-PAM (new module, storage in AS with bundled metadata, but easy to brute force for unconfined apps)
<tyhicks> mterry: that's how I see the situation, as well
<mterry> tyhicks, I'll send out an email with the two options for discussion
<mterry> tyhicks, not blocking me yet (still need pam module for both)
<tyhicks> mterry: ok, thanks
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: thanks!
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: I now install CM12 :D
<dobey> wow
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: Did you get multirom working now? :)
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: i m install Android applications, please wait me! :P
<mariogrip> ok :)
<JHOSMAN> and i need root my device :P
<JHOSMAN> im now installing UT  :)
<JHOSMAN> mariogrip: Installing Ubuntu has ended, but not Ubuntu starts.
<JHOSMAN> All oka! :D
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: does it work? :)
<JHOSMAN> yes
<JHOSMAN> now!
<mariogrip> Yeey :D
<JHOSMAN> and the desktop?
<mariogrip> JHOSMAN: do you mean desktop mode?
<JHOSMAN> i cant login in Telegram App, "PHONE_PASSWORD_PROTECTED"
<mariogrip> maybe because of  2 step auth activated on your telegram account
<JHOSMAN> yes im 2 steeps verification
<JHOSMAN> I told you not me the wallpaper on the phone, only with all applications launcher.
<dobey> yes, you can't change the wallpaper in the scopes
<mariogrip> and i guess 2 set auth is not supported yet in the telegram client
<mariogrip> 2 step auth**
<dobey> that i don't know
<JHOSMAN> ok
<JHOSMAN> I think today's exercise helped identify that Ubuntu Touch is not compatible with OxygenOS. And also we learned the steps to recover the kernel.
<mariogrip> :)
<mariogrip> it's more that multirom (more the AK kernel that It uses) is not compatible with OxygenOS
<JHOSMAN> As I can take a screenshot?
<dobey> press vol up/dn at same time
<JHOSMAN> The phone is heating up.
#ubuntu-touch 2016-01-14
<conkey3> uh Ubuntu 15.04 (Vivid Vervet) reaches End of Life on February 4 2016 o_O
<conkey3> so.. when will the phone move to 16.04?
<conkey3> and a newer android stack
<Mikaela> With 16.04 I would assume it waits at least for it to have stable release
<conkey3> Mikaela, right
<conkey3> steamlink sdk https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steamlink-sdk
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Organise Your Home Day! ð
<RMJ> anyone ruunning rc-proposed? How's it looking?
<morphis> ogra_: ping
<V99> we
<ogra_> morphis, yo
<morphis> ogra_: you remember why we're not doing dual landing for ubuntu-touch-session?
<robin-hero> RMJ, it looks okay most of the times, but today my phone ran out of battery at night (from 43%) and didn't alarm for wake up... :(
<ogra_> morphis, no, i dont, feel free to change it
<morphis> ogra_: hm, ok
<Nycticebuscoucan> Hi guys, i am looking for a xmpp client app for ubuntu touch on my bq aquaris 4.5 are there perhaps easy ways to port xabber (android) to ubuntu?
<mardy> tvoss: hi! I updated https://code.launchpad.net/~mardy/location-service/providers-dir/+merge/280724, when you have some time
<morphis> ogra_: https://code.launchpad.net/~morphis/ubuntu-touch-session/sync-vivid-and-droid-discover/+merge/282579
<tvoss> mardy, ack and thx :) on the list
<tvoss> mardy, also: a happy new year
<mardy> tvoss: thanks, same to you! :-)
<tvoss> mardy, thank you :9
<popey> ahayzen, jibel tells me that from your list at http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/14415863/ that bug 1531296 is fixed in rc-proposed, so that's good, one down.
<ubot5> bug 1531296 in Canonical System Image "When in shuffle mode it does not repeat if repeat was disabled before enabling shuffle" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1531296
<ahayzen> popey, top two should have landed :-)
<ahayzen> and i need to report a few more minor ones
<jibel> popey, the status of bug 1518157 is not clear from the changeloog in comment 2
<ubot5> bug 1518157 in qtmultimedia-opensource-src (Ubuntu RTM) "Need to be able todo Playlist.Random | Playlist.Loop in QML to accomodate or all playbackModes" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1518157
<jibel> ahayzen, the changelog entries says "Until bug 1518157 (RandomAndLoop playbackMode) is fixed..." so it is fixed or or not?
<ahayzen> jibel, it is a workaround that makes the music-app function as before...until there is support for the additional functionality later
<ahayzen> jibel, as at the moment there is no way todo Random with repeat off....and Random with repeat on... as two separate things.... so we made it match what the current app does, which is random with repeat on
<ahayzen> so no regressions :-)
<jibel> ahayzen, okay, so this bug can be set to 'fixed'?
<ahayzen> which one?
<jibel> 1518157
<ahayzen> i think that still stands
<jibel> it's marked released for qtubuntu-media
<ahayzen> as you cannot do Playlist.Random + Playlist.Repeat
<ahayzen> jibel, seems the think that generated the changelog automatically put that bug as fixed, when it was just referencing it, i think
<ahayzen> *the thing
<jibel> ahayzen, right. I'll reset the status
<Nycticebuscoucan> Hi guys, i am looking for a xmpp client app for ubuntu touch on my bq aquaris 4.5 are there perhaps easy ways to port xabber (android) to ubuntu?
<popey> pmcgowan, heya, any chance https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-network/+bug/1472186 can go on your radar pls?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1472186 in indicator-network (Ubuntu) "Can't install libconnectivity-qt1-dev on multiarch" [High,Confirmed]
<popey> It's slowing down development of dekko, by preventing builds from being done in a chroot, but have to be done on-device.
<Thierry> Hi everybody
<Thierry> I just installed Ubuntu touch on my device
<Thierry> And i want to know how can i see videos with subtitle
<Thierry> In fact i like watch films in vost but it seems that the default player don't print the subtitle
<pmcgowan> popey, will take a look
<pmcgowan> popey, while I have you where do we stand with new music app
<popey> I am listening to music with it right now
<popey> we have a click that we're testing, a few known issues
<popey> Thierry, we don't support subtitles yet. sorry.
<Thierry> And there is no other video player that i can install which supports that feature ?
<pmcgowan> popey, can it land like todayish
<popey> depends if we find any more issues with media-hub
<popey> we can certainly submit it to QA
<popey> ahayzen, ^
<ahayzen> popey, that issue you just found should be fixed ideally :-/
<ahayzen> popey, people wouldn't like you music stopping and queue being emptied each time a SMS/telegram notification sounds :-/
<ahayzen> popey, did you report a bug for it? or do you want me to report one?
<popey> not yet, could you, you got a photo/screenshot?
<ahayzen> popey, i could maybe film it, but it is pretty easy to explain...i'll write one up then we can add a video later
<popey> ok
<popey> thanks
<Thierry> nobody knows ?
<popey> Thierry, nobody knows what?
<popey> oh, no.
<Thierry> Hum that's not cool...
<Thierry> And there is no way i can run vlc or install another media player with apt-get for example ?
<ahayzen> popey, can you confirm bug 1534172 ?
<ubot5> bug 1534172 in media-hub (Ubuntu) "With bgplaylists if an alert sounds, the playback stops and the queue is lost" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1534172
<popey> ya
<popey> done
<popey> Thierry, someone would need to port vlc
<ahayzen> thanks popey :-)
<pmcgowan> popey, why is that bug filed against indicator-network
<popey> not sure, I didn't file it.
<pmcgowan> Saviq, ^^
<pmcgowan> bug #1472186
<ubot5> bug 1472186 in indicator-network (Ubuntu) "Can't install libconnectivity-qt1-dev on multiarch" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1472186
<Saviq> pmcgowan, that's where libconnectivity-qt1 comes from
<pmcgowan> oh
<Saviq> pmcgowan, was a separate package before, got merged into indicator-network and we're in that situation since
<pmcgowan> right now I recall
<Saviq> the problem is roughly that it pulls in indicator-network itself
<raph_ael> hi, I have a nexus with touch 15.04, will 15.10 be available through updates, or is there something else to do ? thanks
<Saviq> which means it pulls in half of the world
<popey> raph_ael, we're not going to 15.10
<raph_ael> popey: oh, what does that mean ?
<popey> raph_ael, you'll keep getting 15.04 + updates, until we move to 16.04 (I think), when you'll get that OTA
<raph_ael> popey: ok thanks
<popey> np
<raph_ael> popey: is there a technical reason or something about stable/dev releases ?
<popey> i think just because it slows us (phone team) down to keep moving to new release every 6 months
<popey> and the standard ubuntu release cycle doesn't line up well with hardware releases
<pmcgowan> well 15.10 introduced the abi break with gcc
<popey> oh yeah.
<popey> that too
<pmcgowan> so yeah technical issue as well
<raph_ael> thanks both :)
<raph_ael> 6 months is indeed quick specially for mobile os
<raph_ael> but well it works better for me than Firefox Os that I used just before
<Thierry> Someone knows which is the default root password for ubuntu touch ???
<popey> We use sudo, and the password will be whatever you set it to
<jibel> Thierry, there is no root password. However you can sudo with the passcode you set on first boot.
<popey> The phone pin/passphrase.
<Thierry> Thank you popey
<Thierry> Is it hard to print the subtitle of a .mkv file ?
<popey> jhodapp, has subtitle support been factored into mediaplayer? Or never considered?
<Thierry> Because i'm programmer
<Thierry> So if it is not so difficult i can help until sunday lol
<popey> https://launchpad.net/mediaplayer-app is the code :)
<jhodapp> popey, it's been considered but has not been a high priority feature yet
<popey> ok
<Thierry> Is the code well commented or ... ?
<jhodapp> popey, but it'd be a perfect feature for a community member to work to add
<popey> agreed
<Thierry> Hey wait, i don't say i will add this feature
<Thierry> I know very slightly QML lol
<Thierry> And i first have to understand the code lol
<popey> yeah, he was just saying it would be a good thing to contribute
<Thierry> So if i understand weel the mainly code is in the mediaplayer.cpp
<Thierry> well*
<Nycticebuscoucan> Hi guys, i am looking for a xmpp client app for ubuntu touch on my bq aquaris 4.5 are there perhaps easy ways to port xabber (android) to ubuntu?
<popey> Nycticebuscoucan, dont think one exists yet, there's mention I have seen in the past that xmpp support might be added to messaging-app but not done yet as far as I know
<ssweeny> Nycticebuscoucan, no XMPP client as of yet nor will android apps be easy to port. There is however a messging framework on the way (ETA unknown I'm afraid) that will make it easy to write one
<Nycticebuscoucan> thank you popey and ssweeny I hope it will be implemented soon. Do you know if "normal" ubuntu "apps" like pidgin could work ob the phone and if yes how would i do it?
<Thierry> No because of mir ><
<dobey> no, but not because of mir
<Nycticebuscoucan> :) absolutely no chance?
<dobey> gtk+ has a mir back-end already for some time. the problem with messaging apps is dealing with lifecycle/confinement issues
<dobey> you can run pidgin on your phone if you want to break your phone, but you get to keep all the pieces. it's not a supported thing to do that :)
<dobey> the messaging framework already being used on the phone is telepathy
<dobey> we just don't have UI for dealing with IM services at the moment, and all the IM service back-ends are not enabled on the phone
<Nycticebuscoucan> ok this sounds a little bit too complicated for me :) anyway I would be happy to have xmpp on the phone if possible also with OTR :)
<Nycticebuscoucan> tanks you for your help anyway
<dobey> yes, it would be nice to have all the IM services on the phone
<dobey> popey: what is dekko trying to use unsupported API for?
<ssweeny> the xmpp plugin for telepathy is shipped on the phone IIRC but there's no UI to use it
<ssweeny> also telepathy's xmpp support is lacking when it comes to mobile
<popey> dobey, hmm?
<dobey> popey: afaik we don't support most of the C++ APIs we have qml modules for, in the SDK.
<Nycticebuscoucan> yes, i just read that - that s really bad. So no chance for xmmp with otr in the near future?
<dobey> popey: so i'm curious as to what dekko is trying to do that it's trying to link to the C++ API
<dobey> ssweeny: the module is there, but blacklisted afaik
<ssweeny> I think it'll activate if you make an account from the command line
<dobey> Nycticebuscoucan: i don't know what "near future" means exactly, or where any of the work on adding support for IM stands
<ssweeny> but messaging-app doesn't work with it
<neoscreenager> hi guys, I am trying to run ubuntu-emulator on ubuntu 15.10 64bit, but its not booting up.
<neoscreenager> its not booting further after these lines :  Failed to start user service: Unknown unit: user@32011.service
<neoscreenager> /lib/init/init-d-script: 12: /etc/rc2.d/S02whoopsie: -c: not found
<neoscreenager> basename: missing operand
<neoscreenager> please suggest how to proceed
<Thierry> Just a question : apparently there is a library (libmatroska) which parse subtitle file of .mkv
<Thierry> So in the hypothesis what i will try to develop a subtitle feature for the player can i use this library ?
<pmcgowan> neoscreenager, the emulator is a bit busted atm, in my experience it starts around 1/3 of the time, but there are also issues with input events we are fixing
<pmcgowan> Thierry, however gstreamer supports it, seems it has a good plugin for matroska
<Thierry> The problem is that i don't where to begin
<Thierry> What tools can i use, where i have to put the code
<Thierry> My idea is clear : i parse that fucking mkv file, find the subtitle and print it
<Thierry> But how am i supposed to do it is the problem
<tvoss> Thierry, you want to get started looking at lp:media-hub, it is the central service doing the decoding
<tvoss> Thierry, there are two ways to achieve what you want: (1.) render the subtitles onto the image on the service side or (2.) adjust the media hub api's to provide a synchronized subtitle stream
<Thierry> Alright i will try to found this
<Thierry> Because i don't know launchpad
<Thierry> I know to code but not how to use communatary tools (except git) lol
<tvoss> Thierry, launchpad.net/media-hub
<Thierry> But thank you for directing me :)
<tvoss> Thierry, sure, but just so you know: both (1.) and (2.) are far from trivial :)
<tvoss> Thierry, and obviously: all help and contributions welcome
<neoscreenager> pmcgowan, then should I try with LTS, I have my other comuputer running on LTS
<pmcgowan> neoscreenager, no it won't work currently, its not the desktop version it is the emulator image that is busted, we hope to fix it very soon
<Thierry> tvoss : So if i understand well i have to make a directory subtitle in /src lol?
<Thierry> a directory full of code of course
<tvoss> Thierry, well, I would propose to add it to gstreamer first. We can work together on exposing the actual via public interfaces after that
<tvoss> Thierry, http://docs.gstreamer.com/display/GstSDK/Playback+tutorial+2%3A+Subtitle+management seems to be a good place to get started
<tvoss> Thierry, we are using a playbin in media-hub
<Thierry> So the work is : in gstreamer/engine.cpp when gstreamer print the image it prints also subtitle ?
<Thierry> Alright thank you for the documentation
<Thierry> But if i modify the code how will i be able to test it ?
<Thierry> If i download the source of media hub and compile on my computer (ubuntu 15.10 desktop) it will run ?
<tvoss> Thierry, engine.cpp does not render the image, the image (or a reference to a buffer on the gpu) is streamed to the client (the mediaplayer app)
<tvoss> Thierry, it will only work on the phone right now
<Thierry> oh crap
<Thierry> Just say me how i will have to work : (1) download the code (2) modify the code on my pc (3) put the code on the phone (4) compile on the phone ?
<tvoss> Thierry, yup, we usually compile in an schroot on the phone
<tvoss> s/on/for
<tvoss> Thierry, so you can compile on your machine
<tvoss> Thierry, for getting you started: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild
<Thierry> ty
<Thierry> Instead of $distribution = "trusty"; that i have to type ?
<Thierry> wily ?
<tvoss> Thierry, vivid
<Thierry> Ok, i have a problem with the gpg
<Thierry> It still says me that i haven't enough entropy
<tvoss> Thierry, move your mouse, alt tab, browse the web
<Thierry> So in run ls -R / ||  tree / || grep dir but it still say me that
<Thierry> i run*
<Thierry> does gpg will automatically generate the key when it will have enough entropy ?
<tvoss> yup
<Thierry> So if i understand weel schroot permit a "cross compilation" of ubuntu version ?
<Thierry> well
<popey> yes, you can build an armhf binary inside a schroot on an x86 machine
<Thierry> ok
<Thierry> I have to restart my session
<Thierry__> re
<Thierry__> So i did the sbuild, and now lol
<Thierry__> I have to download the tarball ?
<Thierry> re sorry i had to empty my ram lol
<Thierry> how can i send a private message for someone in irc ?
<k1l> Thierry: "/msg user message"
<Thierry> Thank you :)
<Thierry> Merde ><
<jibel> Thierry, not nice on a public channel
<Thierry> ???
<Thierry> Is there anyone who speak french here xD ?
<sergiusens> ahayzen, I see a similar bug while listening to podcasts since a couple of images ago (a ding from telegram interrupts the podcast and it doesn't continue playing)
<sergiusens> ahayzen, another similar thing I saw only in todays image is that a podcast loops forever
<robin-hero> artmello, hey, any progress with the .pot file with this bug? #1521186
<robin-hero>  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1521186
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1521186 in Canonical System Image ""Media Player" should be translatable on Sound Indicator" [High,Fix committed]
<artmello> robin-hero: sorry was working on some gallery issues, working on that now
<robin-hero> thanks :)
<ahayzen> sergiusens, that's probably because they don't have repeat set to off
<ahayzen> sergiusens, or if you have shuffle on, then it'll loop for now. Until we get a Random and RandomAndLoop as separate options in QML
<sergiusens> ahayzen, I wouldn't know for sure, but I bet Elleo would know
<Thierry> Does the media-player handle multiple audio stream ?
<ahayzen> sergiusens, yeah :-)
<Thierry> For example if i have a mkv with french and english audio can i choose ? Or i have to go fuck myself ?
<taiebot> Hey I am still getting some weird artifact on rc-proposed  on some scopes http://i.imgur.com/1W8S0Xb.png is their a bug for that. It is quite hard to reproduce but it happens.
<pmcgowan> taiebot, weird, it looks like a blown up >
<pmcgowan> not see a bug for that
<robin-hero> taiebot, never seen this on my device
<taiebot> Yeah its the arrow which looks completely out of scale
<pmcgowan> please log it especially if you know how to repro it
<taiebot> pmcgowan that is the problem i do not know how to reproduce but it happens mainly on today scope
<popey> i have seen that in the past too taiebot
<popey> i couldn't reproduce it
<gihel> Thierry: toujours lÃ  ?
<Thierry> Oui
<gihel> je backlog, j'ai mÃªme pas lu tes questions
<dobey> english please
<dobey> if you want french, please go to #ubuntu-fr (i think that's the channel)
<Thierry> We will go in private, sorry dobey
<Guest14016> Does Touch support Ubuntu/Linux based applications?
<Thierry> Guest14016 sadly no
<Thierry> xD
<tvoss> Thierry, that's not entirely true
<Thierry> Yes
<Thierry> Some app like firefox work
<Thierry> I rethink to it only now...
<Thierry> I have a problem when i try to run mk-sbuild --arch armhf vivid
<Thierry> I: Running command: chroot /var/lib/schroot/chroots/vivid-armhf /debootstrap/debootstrap --second-stage chroot: failed to run command â/debootstrap/debootstrapâ: Exec format error
<Thierry> Did someone already have this problem and solve it ?
<Thierry> Bye everyone
#ubuntu-touch 2016-01-15
<bruybenj> hi some one know how can i put a limit ex. 1gb of data plan and the cellular data stop ?
 * lpotter yawns
<Nycticebuscoucan> hi, could you tell me how to turn off the camera sound?
<jibel> Nycticebuscoucan, on stable you cannot. On OTA9 or current rc-proposed there is an option in the camera app to disable the shutter sound.
<Nycticebuscoucan> is it advisable to install the rc and if yes how do I do it? I am completely new to ubuntu touch and though using ubuntu on my pc for over 5 years now I am not a programmer ;)
<ogra_> you can just wait til rc-proposed becomes stable with OTA9
<robin-hero> Nycticebuscoucan, If I'm right OTA-9 will be release on 27th, so just a few more days.
<Nycticebuscoucan> ok that sounds good to me I am going to wait at least till the 27th
<Nycticebuscoucan> thanks to all!
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Hat Day! ð  ð©
<Nycticebuscoucan> How can I mount the aquaris 4.5 in ubuntu? I just want to copy some files.
<Nycticebuscoucan> ubuntu shows it as mounted but i cant see any folders in it
<davmor2> Nycticebuscoucan: did you unlock the device?
<Nycticebuscoucan> probably not
<davmor2> Nycticebuscoucan: mtp only works if the phone screen is unlocked to stop people stealing your data by plugging it into a pc
<Nycticebuscoucan> thats smart!
<Nycticebuscoucan> indeed it works
<Nycticebuscoucan> i musst admit that i was a bit disappointed when i got the device but now i am beginning to like it :)
<Nycticebuscoucan> thank you for your help davmor2
<davmor2> Nycticebuscoucan: pleasure
<robin-hero> davmor2, I have an idea. I know a lot of people confuse because this behaviour. Will it be difficult to implement a notification, when somebody plug a phone to a computer at the first time? And this notification tells him to he needs to open the phone first to access the content. And should be a button to "I got it, neves show this message again." What do you think?
<davmor2> robin-hero: no idea I'm not a dev
<davmor2> robin-hero: I think that there was a bug filed along those lines though
<conkey3> is there any way to turn OFF auto focus?
<davmor2> conkey3: for the camera app?
<ogra_> conkey3, auto-focus ?
<ogra_> ah
 * ogra_ was thinking about window focus :) 
<davmor2> ogra_: it was the only auto focus I could think off that you would want to turn off
<ogra_> yeah
 * ogra_ didnt think that far :P
<conkey3> davmor2, yep the camera app
<davmor2> conkey3: I don't think you can turn it off but if you tap on the bit you want to focus on it will focus there instead
<conkey3> davmor2, i need to turn it off for recordings, it auto changes the focus while recording  :'(
<conkey3> pff
<ogra_> file a bug in any case so kaleo (the app dev) gets aware of it
<conkey3> ogra_, reported a while ago :> but the bug is marked as wishlist aka will probably never happen or priority = -999999999
<chrisluck> My nexus4 on newest rc-proposed keeps crashing at night, but only when i set an alarm clock. Is this a known bug?
<pmcgowan> conkey3, wishlist just means its a feature not low priority, but if thats affecting recording sounds like a bug instead
<conkey3> pmcgowan, i agree. it's more of a bug than a feature https://bugs.launchpad.net/camera-app/+bug/1511074
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1511074 in camera-app (Ubuntu) "camera is missing auto focus options OFF" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<conkey3> pmcgowan, to better understand this bug try recording the laptop screen while moving/opening windows etc
<pmcgowan> conkey3, is that when shoting any video
<pmcgowan> or some special usecase
<conkey3> pmcgowan, when recording any screens
<conkey3> pmcgowan,  the window movement or something triggers a refocus and makes the video unfocused blurry
<conkey3> i'm using the mx4 but it's probably the same with bq
<pmcgowan> conkey3, yep, so thats a tad more specific, in any event I will make sure its on backlog
<pmcgowan> chrisluck, I dont think that has been reported
<chrisluck> This bug exists since forever and it happened at least 10 times to me. The phone is charging and the alarm clock is set. When i wake up in the morning, the alarm didnt ring and I have to long-press the power button to get the phone rebooted.
<conkey3> pmcgowan, thanks!  :D here's a recorded video (with meizu mx4) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zdpp7mZEQs
<pmcgowan> conkey3, yeah thats unfortunate
<pmcgowan> conkey3, I can put that in the bug as an example
<conkey3> pmcgowan, yep, that will help the devs understand better what this bug it's all about :D
<pmcgowan> chrisluck, is there an existing bug open
<pmcgowan> and do you see any crash files?
<chrisluck> I dont know. Which files am i looking for? I can check next time
<pmcgowan> chrisluck, look in /var/crash, I will check for an existing bug
<pmcgowan> chrisluck, so your phone is locked up in the am? unresponsive?
<pmcgowan> there is a media-hub crash that prevents alarms from sounding
<chrisluck> exactly, sceen is not turning on and i have to long-press the powerbutton to boot/reboot it
<pmcgowan> thats a different symptom to the bug I found
<pmcgowan> chrisluck, would be interesting to see what crash files are there if any
<pmcgowan> chrisluck, this is your bug but no one reported it for a long time https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1417188
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1417188 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "Shell frozen/crashed when alarm triggered" [Critical,Expired]
<pmcgowan> we can reopen it if we can get some info
<chrisluck> that one is different i think. In my case the alarm doesnt ring and the screen also doesnt turn on
<pmcgowan> his screen didnt either
<pmcgowan> but yeah alarm sounded
<chrisluck> he says, that ther was a "greeter" on the screen. So his screen turned on but was unresponsive
<pmcgowan> right
<gQuigs> are we going to push for QT5.6 for xenial?   If so is there any testing to be done (don't find a 5.6 ppa here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/QtTesting)
<myrmidon> Is there going to be a setting to allow programs to run in the background anytime soon?
<myrmidon> Without making the fs r/w?
<myrmidon> or the ability to use apt to download terminal programs?
<matv1> myrmidon you are aware that there have some been massive discussions about background processing in the mailinglist already?
<k1l> background processes were in the discussion too.
<k1l> i mean multitask
<ogra_> k1l, no, you mean background processing ;)
<ogra_> the system is already multitasking, it is the UI that doesnt allow bg processing
<matv1> right
<k1l> i will refer to it as the black magic that runs processes in the background, from now on :)
<ogra_> haha
<matv1> I do however that somewhere in that discussion, someone from canonical hinted that allowing/not allowing active processsing out of focus would be device specific. That when running it on a desktop (or even a craddled phone), that choice would be automatically disabled
<matv1> i think it was tvoss
<matv1> has any progress been made on that?
<ogra_> well, i doubt we will ever allow apps themselves to ship bg processes ...
 * tathhu is back on ubuntu phone.. AGAIN. 
<tathhu> :d
<ogra_> the system isd simply lacking apis
<ogra_> in the future there should be background processing for apps, but only through secured system services
<ogra_> via the app API
<chrustler> Trying to try out Ubuntu on my x86 tablet - is there a live-iso to use? Or a recommended one more-so...
<matv1> i think that was not what was said in the Sturmflut discusion a while back
<ogra_> well, i only know the master plan :=
<ogra_> :)
<matv1> ogra_ IS the master plan
<ogra_> the master plan is world dominance via snappy skynet indeed :P
<matv1> you accomplished that already. I read an article in Forbes the other day that said so
<ogra_> lol
<matv1> ah found it: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg15887.html
<ogra_> yeah, that was a rather gigantic thread
<ogra_> (and not the first one on the topic)
<matv1> I know yes :)
<matv1> but i mean thomasÂ´s comment on lifecycle management being device specific in the future
<tvoss> matv1, the lifecycle policy will be adjusted depending on the device/scenario, yes
<ogra_> right, that doesnt matter much for phone-only
<tvoss> matv1, we collected quite some use-cases and I have a task to write up next steps on my list
<tvoss> matv1, so stay tuned
<matv1> tvoss awsum. I believe getting to a point where U8 continues to run apps when out of focus will take a lot of the hurt out of not being to bgprocess on a phone
<matv1> and i am ofcourse staying tuned :)
<matv1> And i wish everyone an a great weekend now. Adios Amigos!
<Niju____> So if I'm understanding correctly, 'out of focus' will allow background processing....without background processing?
<Niju____> What about installing terminal programs?  If we can't use apt as a normal user, how can we install the thousands of useful terminal programs?
<popey> Niju____, someone could package them up and put them in the store.
<Niju____> How hard is that to do?
<popey> Depends on the app
<Niju____> I much prefer Sailfish's useage as that's more Linux like
<Niju____> repo's
<popey> Not sure I get what "more linux like" means, but okay
<Niju____> Ubuntu Phone almost seems crippled by not allowing apt-get, i understand why it was done but on my Jolla, I can just add the openrepo's, and install nmap etc from the terminal
<Niju____> I can't do that on UT without either r/w my fs
<Niju____> Maybe UT should be more like desktop Ubuntu in that regard
<popey> if someone threw nmap in the store, you could install that too
<Niju____> I understand that, but it's a bit more convoluted than just adding a repo and installing myself
<popey> sure.
<Niju____> Probably the only thing that annoys me about UT
<popey> not a typical use case for "normals" though
<popey> But I understand
<Niju____> Hopefully it changes.  I noticed a recent fitness tracker app the other day, but it couldn't be used with the screen off...wtf
<dobey> what are you trying to do?
<Niju____> due to the background process thing
<dobey> you can create a chroot if you want to install random debian packages to play with
<Niju____> I have considered this, but it shouldn't really be necessary
<Niju____> I'm not dissing UT, I love it, but it is the main gripe I have
<dobey> well, you are allowed to break your phone if you want, but you get to keep all the shards that fall out :)
<Niju____> haha
<Niju____> :D
<dobey> but there's really only so much you can allow when you need to build a system that is secure, reliable, and supportable
<Niju____> actually on that note, if I was to r/w the filesystem and installed nmap for example, if I THEN make the filesystem read only again, can OTA's be used?
<dobey> adding arbitrary PPAs and installing random junk in /, breaks those concepts
<Niju____> dobey, again I refer to Sailfish's implementation
<dobey> well this isn't #sailfish
<Niju____> very true
<Niju____> would my example work with enabling r/w then disabling after installing a program?
<dobey> if Jolla wants to build a system that's less secure and lets you install arbitrary things in / with apt, that's their choice. and it's not relevant to ubuntu :)
<dobey> yes and no
<popey> Niju____, I'd just put anything you want to use in ~/bin
<popey> thats what i do, then it's automagically in the path
<Niju____> how would that work exactly?
<popey> you put the nmap binary in ~/bin
<popey> open terminal, run stuff
<Niju____> is this without r/w being enabled?
<popey> yes
<popey> your home directory is writable
<Niju____> oh yes I misread the ~
<popey> I usually ssh into the phone and wget what I want into it
<Niju____> why didn't I think of that :P
<Niju____> That pretty much fixes my gripes then
<Niju____> How does that work though with sudo actions? Example, nmap again, some scans require sudo access?
<dobey> run sudo nmap?
<Niju> there are some scans which require it
<Niju> OS id for example
<dobey> yes, so why not run "sudo nmap" ?
<Niju> and that would work?
<dobey> sudo works, otherwise you wouldn't be able to remount / as rw either
<dobey> well assuming nmap is in your path, yes
<dobey> if it's not, then "sudo ~/wherever/you/put/nmap"
<Niju> everyday is a school day. :)
<Niju> that pretty much solves all my problems then, great job, keep it up! Lol :D
<Niju> thanks dobey
<popey> Oh, excellent news.
<dobey> but really, a chroot is the way to go, as you can then just run apt-get inside the chroot to install things, and they can be kept updated by doing apt-get upgrade on occasion
<Niju> I saw chroot instructions for UT somewhere but not sure how valid they are now
<Niju> I've never done chroot before
<popey> the ones dobey is about to link to work
<Niju> :D
<popey> I've jinxed it now
<Niju> lol
<dobey> lol
<dobey> https://askubuntu.com/questions/620740/recommended-way-to-install-regularcli-deb-packages-on-ubuntu-phone/623311#623311
<popey> good lad
<dobey> i wrote them, so they must be valid
<Niju> pretty sure that's the one I saw :)
<Niju> Even better
<Niju> Good thing I got that 32gb sd card
<Niju> Cheers guys :)
<Niju> ok, first problem, following that guide, on sudo chroot . I get 'failed to run /bin/bash, permission denied'
<Niju> made the vivid-chroot directory on my sd card
<tathhu> wat, ureadit isn't in store anymore? :( mhall119
<mhall119> what?
<mhall119> tathhu: ureadit or ureadit-dev?
<mhall119> oh, it's using a newer framework version that the stable releases
<mhall119> tathhu: it should be available again after the next OTA
<tathhu> both :(
<tathhu> ahh
<mhall119> yeah, both are using ubuntu-sdk-15.04.3
<mhall119> tathhu: I'll check later today to see if I can use a lower framework version
<dobey> Niju: oh yeah, the terminal app can't do chroot. you can do it when you ssh/adb to the phone though
<Niju> dobey, so I still can't run apps on the actual device then?
<dobey> Niju: i don't know how to get around terminal app not being able to get into the chroot at the moment, but you can install some apps in the chroot, and still run them from terminal app without switching into the chroot
<Niju> maybe I'm not understanding chrooting properly, I thought chroot sort of put me in a 'mode' where anything I did was contained in the chroot 'virtual' environement?
<dobey> when you run the chroot command, yes
<dobey> but "a chroot" on disk is just a directory that contains an installation of the OS within it.
<dobey> so if it's the same OS as the host, and the thing you installed doesn't depend on things not available on the host OS install, you can run it without chrooting into the chroot
<Niju> ah, I think I get you now
<Niju> so if I download say the nmap binary, run it, it'll use the OS files from the chroot?
<Niju> which is writable
<dobey> if you are chrooted in the chroot when you run it, yes
<Niju> That seems to be my issue just now then as when I go into my chroot directory and run sudo chroot . it gives me the permission denied error
<dobey> if you just run "~/chroot/usr/bin/nmap" from the host, then anything it needs in the OS, it will expect to be in appropriate locations in the host
<dobey> jdstrand: ^^ is there some way we can fix it so that "sudo chroot ." in the Terminal app will work?
<jdstrand> can someone file a bug against apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu with the denial?
<dobey> sure
<Niju> Is this a relatively easy fix?
<dobey> i don't know. if i knew the fix, i would have submitted an MP already :)
<dobey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu/+bug/1534807
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1534807 in apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Cannot run "sudo chroot ." in Terminal" [Undecided,New]
<dobey> jdstrand: ^^ there you go :)
<Niju> confirmed it affects me :)
<jdstrand> ok, I need feedback from balloons
#ubuntu-touch 2016-01-16
<Asker> Hello
<woody_halaine> hello
<Niju> silly question, on UT terminal, where is the alt button? I can't see it on the different keyboard options
<OerHeks> Niju, not silly at all ..
<OerHeks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-terminal-app/+bug/1400285
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1400285 in Ubuntu Terminal App "[Reboot] missing plain control & alt keys in overlay" [High,Confirmed]
<OerHeks> You might want to confirm this bug too.
<OerHeks> bug/ missing feature :-)
<teward> if i have questions about Ubuntu Phone releases, specifically EOL dates for any given Ubuntu Phone OS that exists, do I ask here?  (Trying to figure out the EOL impact based on the main Ubuntu distros, and whether those EOL dates impact existing Ubuntu Touch devices/installs)
<OerHeks> This is the right place, teward , but i have no clue about EOL dates.
<teward> OerHeks: that's what I thought.  Came up on Ask Ubuntu, 'cause we put EOL notices on Meta there, someone posted saying "Phone devices are still running on a VIvid derivative and aren't yet affected by the EOL notice"
<teward> which I want an authoritative answer on :/
<teward> hmm... is there a mailing list for the Ubuntu Phone / Ubuntu Touch team?
<OerHeks> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/
<popey> teward, what is the specific question?
<teward> popey: whether standard EOL dates impact Ubuntu Phone / Ubuntu Touch EOL dates
<popey> they dont
<teward> that's all I needed to know thanks
<popey> because the phone, while on vivid, has an overlay ppa which keeps it up to date
<popey> we'll move to xenial soon
<teward> okay
<Nycticebuscoucan> Hi, I want to add apps to the left bar how does it work, couldn't find anything about it
<chrisluck> Nycticebuscoucan: You have to start the app first, this will make the app appear in the left bar. Then you long-press on the app in the left bar
<Nycticebuscoucan> Chrisluck, thanks!
<chrisluck> Nycticebuscoucan: a menu will appear where you can select to fix the app in the launcher
<Nycticebuscoucan> and can I change the order of the apps?
<Nycticebuscoucan> ok I  got it
<Nycticebuscoucan> sorry for the question
<Nycticebuscoucan> Thank you for your support!
<chrisluck> yes, you can change the order by draging them to another location
<chrisluck> it works like drag&drop on the desktop
<chrisluck> you are welcome ;)
<chrisluck> Does someone know how the /proc/last_kmsg works? My question is, where does it get stored to survive the crash/reboot ?
<i_n_g_o_> hello
<i_n_g_o_> i am struggeling with a plain (unchanged) Unity Scope project
<i_n_g_o_> hope to find some help
<i_n_g_o_> when starting it on the phone i get a "missing .ini extension" error...
<i_n_g_o_> runs on the desktop though
<i_n_g_o_> looking into the folder in question (/home/phablet/.local/share/unity-scopes/untitled.username_untitled_0.1) i can see a "untitled.username_untitled-settings.ini" file
<i_n_g_o_> error is this: unity::scopes::ConfigException: invalid config file name: "/home/phablet/.local/share/unity-scopes//untitled.username_untitled_0.1": missing .ini extension
<i_n_g_o_> seems it expects the folder to be the .ini file
<Nycticebuscoucan> hi guys it's me again, I am trying to change the order of the apps in the app scope but I don't know how
<chrisluck> Nycticebuscoucan: You only have to long press the app you want to move. And while you are pressing, you can drag the app to another position
#ubuntu-touch 2016-01-17
<dobey> thumbnailer-service: [20:31:21.948] Apparmor label "com.ubuntu.gallery_gallery_2.9.1.1260" has no access to "/home/phablet/Pictures/com.ubuntu.camera/image20151222_173040256.jpg"
<dobey> what?
<lpotter> heh. somehow I've managed to make a dir named /home/phablet/\
<tathhu> Is there any way to see *why* my bq drained battery overnight? Only thing i remember I had wifi on an connected :l
<jgdx> tathhu, syslog!
<jgdx> i could take a look for you if you PM it
<tathhu> hmm
<jgdx> or paste it here if there's nothing sensitive in there
<tathhu> i'd prefer to keep it private as i have no idea what there is :P .. also no idea how to get it out, lol
<jgdx> tathhu, sure. You can install the LogViewer app, then look for yourself.
<jgdx> the location is /var/log/syslog
<jgdx> if there's nothing interesting, there should be a pastebin function you could use
<jgdx> s/interesting/sensitive or private
<jfc> Tasks sqlite databases : where the name of tasks sqlite database are stocked  (98db8704aaadd1aeebba01b42bf4d270.ini and 98db8704aaadd1aeebba01b42bf4d270.sqlite files) => 98db8704aaadd1aeebba01b42bf4d270, thanks
<jfc> or others sqlite databases names ??
<jfc> databases sqlite des taches  : ou sont stockÃ©es les noms des bases de donnÃ©es sqlite (98db8704aaadd1aeebba01b42bf4d270.ini and 98db8704aaadd1aeebba01b42bf4d270.sqlite files) => 98db8704aaadd1aeebba01b42bf4d270, thanks, merci (pour synchro owncloud)
<dobey> !patience | jfc
<ubot5> jfc: Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<jfc> where is archive of IRC #ubuntu-touch ?
<jgdx> jfc, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<V99> hi
<V99> webrtc works on utouch?
<popey> yes and no
<popey> you can view but currently can't share your camera
 * tathhu needs to learn some c++/stuff, twitch app would be 5/5 <3
<talonz> is there anyone still actively working on nexus5 any more?
#ubuntu-touch 2017-01-09
<geosmin> anyone using ubuntu touch on a oneplus one? thinking about flashing it
<Dale> Anyone got an MX4?
<luga_at_work> Does the calendar app work only with Owncloud or can i also use nextcloud?
<luga_at_work> if not, will it come?
<dobey> they are the same thing i think; just a matter of the "branding" of the account and such, iirc
<dobey> so afaik, it /should/ work.
<luga_at_work> well, they are alike as ubuntu to debian
<luga_at_work> nextcloud will change the api, and if they to, it wont work anymore, its not just the branding
<luga_at_work> *do
<tsglove> luga_at_work, nextcloud might create the API to be backwards compatible with owncloud
<dobey> well, will and have done so already, are not the same thing
<dobey> right now, they are the same afaik
<luga_at_work> i hope so, that would solve many problems but it will make nextcloud less flexible in future
<dobey> well, in future, someone can write support specific to new api that then exists
<dobey> one cannot write code now to support an api in the future, which does not yet exist
<luga_at_work> yes, true
<ogra_> you expect owncloud to go on existing ? without any developers on their side ?
 * ogra_ wouldnt bet on that
<dobey> ogra_: it won't evolve but "not exist" is hardly true. you can park a porsche in a barn for 30 years and not drive it, but it doesn't simply cease to exist when you park it there. :)
<luga_at_work> what about webdav/caldav?
<ogra_> well, depends on the rust situation i guess ;)
<dobey> ogra_: also, i'm pretty sure people still use solaris 7. so, yeah. :)
<luga_at_work> is there a plugin for the calendar app?
<ogra_> but yeah, i know owncloud will go on marketing their stuff ... it is just very unlikely it goes anywhere in the future ... development happens in nextcloud
<dobey> luga_at_work: that's how the owncloud stuff works
<dobey> ogra_: well either way, that wasn't the question or the assertion being made.
<luga_at_work> oh so both , nextcloud and owncloud, use CalDav?
<dobey> yes
<ogra_> what i meant to say is that we are likely moving with nextcloud if they ever get incompatible
<ogra_> since owncloud is rather just a marketing stunt nowadays ...
<mcphail> luga_at_work: nextcloud works well
<luga_at_work> oh, then there would be no problem, but why is it called "owncloud" if two others are supported?
<dobey> ogra_: well, if nextcloud becomes incompatible, it will no longer be caldav and require a new back-end anyway
<luga_at_work> dobey u sure?
<ogra_> doesnt need to be incompatible in the caldav part ... just somewhere in the toplevel api for auth
<dobey> luga_at_work: because it's the authentication model that was supported when it was written
<dobey> ogra_: well that just means we'll have a different auth plug-in then. no need to throw away a working one otherwise
<dobey> but anyway
<ogra_> sure
<ogra_> my comment was also more focused on the choice of backend ... i simply wouldnt use owncloud anymore
<dobey> ogra_: sure, but some people might have to. if some company uses it for example and doesn't update their services in reasonable (cf people still using solaris 7)
<ogra_> indeed
<dobey> or why google and apple had to add exchange support to their phones
<ogra_> they clearly missed an opportunity there *g*
<dobey> anyway
<dobey> luga_at_work: caldav itself is just a protocol. specific servers that support it might have wildly different auth schemes. primarily the auth scheme needs to be supported before appropriate handling of that in the caldav back-end can work
<dobey> and no there isn't an account plug-in to add a generic basic auth caldav url at the moment (but you can set up a sync manually afaik)
<luga_at_work> ok
<Dale> Does anyone have trouble updating their device against the app store?
<dobey> what kind of trouble?
<Dale> First I have to sign in every time, then I get 404 errors when I hit an upgrade button.
<dobey> did you install any packages manually?
<dobey> ie, build from git/bzr and sideload?
<Dale> Nope
<dobey> is there a specific package it happens on?
<Dale> It is quite a few, uTorch is a specific example
<dobey> 404 shouldn't cause the need to log-in again though
<dobey> jgdx: ^^ any ideas there?
<Dale> My bad: am getting 401 - UNAUTHORIZED error
<jgdx> Dale, it happens for some paid apps IIRC
<dobey> oh ok. yeah
<dobey> 401 would cause that
<Dale> Oh, wait, sweet Jesus, it's all started working smoothly just now.
<jgdx> praise de lawd
<dobey> maybe the server had some issue
<Dale> Well, I don't believe in coincidences, so whoever just fixed the problem, thank you very much!
<random> Hi, i've got a question regarding the gtk3 support. As far as i know, gtk3 supports the mir display server. But i can't start the gtk3 app. When i compile a gtk2 app and insert "X-Ubuntu-Touch=true" and "X-Ubuntu-XMir-Enable=true" in the .desktop file it works. What did i wrong ?
<random> I can still start the app via "ssh -y" ( x-forwarding ) but not on the phone itself.
<pseudodev> Hello there!!!
<dobey> hi
<pseudodev> I need compressed repos. Who can provide me one?
<dobey> what do you mean?
<salim> Hi, I'm unable to connect wireless display to a sony bravia smart TV. I can see the TV on the phone, but when I connect it fails after a while. Any idea??
<dobey> pseudodev: what is a "compressed repo" and why are you asking for one in this channel?
<pseudodev> dobey: compressed repos means whoever has downloaded the Ubuntu repos, can provide me a compressed folder of it for faster downloading
<dobey> pseudodev: general ubuntu support questions belong in #ubuntu, this channel is more about the phone/tablet ports
<dobey> pseudodev: but otherwise, just download the ISO for Ubuntu. I doubt anyone here has a tarball of the entire ubuntu repository to share with you
<dobey> and even if they did, it would not make downloading any faster
<pseudodev> That would shorten it
<dobey> things that are already compressed do not compress well. it's likely that a tarball of the repository would end up being larger than the individual files
<dobey> you'd be better off only downloading the bits you need
<dobey> you can download the ISO via torrent, which might be faster for you than grabbing an ISO from a mirror site
<dobey> wow
<dobey> mako been sitting on my qi charger for ~2 hrs now, and it's not even hot
<dobey> but it went from 0 to 97% charge
<popey> maybe it lies?
<dobey> nah, i think it's just cold enough in here that the heat from charging is quickly dissipated
<pseudodev> ISO of repos!?
<popey> pseudodev: what exactly is it you need?
<pseudodev> Compressed repo folder
<popey> pseudodev: you need to use more words. What folder? Why?
<dobey> pseudodev: what exactly do you want to accomplish? installing ubuntu? mirroring it?
<davmor2> pseudodev: the entire archive is huge I mean massively huge.  No one downloads the entire repo
<pseudodev> I want to build Ubuntu touch. Problem is, it downloads about 15 GB worth sources. And all those sources are present in the .Repo folder
<pseudodev> I need that compressed .repo folder
<dobey> oh
<dobey> the android git tree
<dobey> i thought you were askinga bout the apt repository for ubuntu
<dobey> like popey said, use more words!
<dobey> i'm pretty sure git streams the data compressed when cloning
<dobey> so someone handing youa  15 GB tarball probably isn't going to improve whatever issue it is you're hitting
<pseudodev> Can't that 15GB be reduced half the size?
<dobey> not likely
<dobey> like i said, things that are already compressed, do not compress especially well
<dobey> i don't know what all the scripts do there, but if they are grabbing full history, then changing them to only grab the latest revision of stuff, might help
<pseudodev> Yes...I tried downloading once
<pseudodev> It was downloading from Android 2.0.1
<pseudodev> To Android 7.0
<pseudodev> That's a lot of history
<dobey> you might want to join #ubports if you want to port a new device, and ask what they're doing
<popey> yeah, they may have a faster mirror
<random> did anyone have a idear how to execute gtk3 apps on ubuntu touch os ?
<dobey> random: include everything you need in your package and build gtk3 with the mir support enabled against the mir on the image
<dobey> or just install them via libertine and use them under xmir as debs
<bregma> on Ubuntu Touch, using Libertine is the only supported way to run GTK+ applications
<bregma> (they might work other ways, but it's not supported)
<random> dobey: ok, so is there a special option to activate mir support ? imho i thought that libgtk3 has already activated the mir support...
<dobey> random: gtk3 is not (currently) a supported SDK target for the phone/tablet
<mcphail> random: from my limited experience of Mir-supporting toolkits, it may just be a matter of bundling the dependencies (and dependencies of the dependencies) in the .click under ther appropriate architecture-specific lib directory. But I haven't tried bundling a GTK3 app
<dobey> well, gtk+ is built with plenty of hard-coded paths, so not that simple
<dobey> and not sure if gtk3 has been getting re-built in the overlay PPA for Mir API/ABI breaks
<dobey> though i suppose it has to, as i think at least keyboard indicator is using it
<mcphail> I've built/installed gtk under different prefixes before, so it is likely to be reasonably portable. Don't know how much of a standard *nix environment it expects, though
<dobey> yeah it's possible, but it has to be rebuilt because paths get built into the binaries
<mcphail> The pain with building gtk is you sometimes end up down the rabbit-warren of building gdk etc as well
<mcphail> And by the time you are building glib you've gone crazy
<dobey> well gdk is in the same tree as gtk
<dobey> but really, yeah, you probably need to build pango and cairo and other underlying bits too
<dobey> but a lot of that can be trimmed down, since you don't need to compile x11 support and such
<pmcgowan> dobey, why would I get a 401 updating a scope, but all the other updates worked
<dobey> i think gtk also lacks a lof integration with the rest of the platform though
<dobey> pmcgowan: because you aren't authorized for it? :)
<mcphail> Yes. Wonder if soft keyboard would work, for example
<pmcgowan> but I has it
<dobey> pmcgowan: maybe something broke on the server? maybe some weird timeout was hit during the updates? i don't know
<pmcgowan> dobey, ok, I updated 3 apps and this one won't
<pmcgowan> even on retry
<dobey> mcphail: keyboard might work because we do use mailit (or however you spell that)
<dobey> mcphail: but other things like content-hub and media-hub i expect don't
<pmcgowan> dobey, offs its working now
<pmcgowan> fifth time the charm
<dobey> pmcgowan: yeah, someone else was asking about similar problem updating earlier
<dobey> pmcgowan: only advice i can really offer for those situations is a) you cheated (side-loaded something that's for-pay in store), or b) server is being annoying
<dobey> pmcgowan: given all the work on moving to snaps, i suspect b) is probably getting hit more often lately :-/
<pmcgowan> indeed
<random> But, I've created a gtk2 app, wich runs fine ( with a bit of .desktop file tuning like http://kriscode.blogspot.de/2016/10/lazarus-development-for-ubuntu-phone.html ). I have to insert  X-Ubuntu-Touch=true, X-Ubuntu-XMir-Enable=true. And so far as i know libgtk2 and libgtk3 are already installed in the os.
<dobey> installed != supported
<dobey> and really you shouldn't be writing new gtk2 code at all. i'm not sure why gtk2 is installed in the image at all. it really shouldn't be
<random> In my example i've used the minimal sample of the wxwidget toolkit + buildroot to create the gtk2 app. So i'am wondering why the same code compiled with gtk3 doesn'T run.. But I have to check the GDK_BACKEND enviroment.
<random> And imho gtk2 is an old but big advantage of the ubuntu os. Because is the user have the choice if he will use ugly software on the phone :-)
<random> BTW is there a plan to official support the gtk3 lib ? :-)
<bregma> random, under Ubuntu Personal, yes, it's making good progress
<dobey> well if you want to use ugly software, there's always the opportunity to run it under xmir/libertine
<random> I want to use gtk3 on ubuntu phone :-)
<random> dobey: i've checked the libgtk version and its compiled with Wayland GDK backend. but the gtk3 app woun't launch. Did i have to change/add some values in the .desktop file ? Is there a documentation about the launcher file ( .desktop ) ?
<dobey> we don't use wayland
<dobey> and the gtk3 package in ubuntu is already compiled with mir support, indeed
<random> ok so my app should run right ? because it runs in an x forwarded ssh session. So the libs will be loaded correct, right ?
<dobey> no, X != Mir
<random> ahh, ur right.. so it seems that my app will use gtk2 instead of gtk3.. :-(. I have to investigate. Thanks for your time.
<random> Just to be clear. If I compile a gtk3 app, it should run, right ? Without any extra configuration inside of ubuntu touch.
<dobey> random: no, gtk3 is not a supported target on the phone/tablet currently. unless you're running it under libertine, it's not necessarily expected to "just run"
<dobey> random: plenty of gtk+ apps also have a dependency on x11 themselves for various things they do
<random> Ok, but libgtk3 will not ( notonly ) use x11 so far as i know. However it seems that it not the easy way to get an native gtk3 app ( which is using mir )running :-)
<random> Thanks for your time.
<dobey> it doesn't matter what back-end you're wanting it to use, if it's the wrong one for the app, is what i mean
<dobey> ie, "take a random app and compile it" is not guaranteed to work, because of this
<random> I hope ubuntu touch will finally supports gtk3 apps officially . IMHO this is one of the reasons of the lack of apps in the app store.
<dobey> well we can agree to disagree on that assumption :)
#ubuntu-touch 2017-01-10
<salim> Anyone has an idea on the wireless display issue?
<garybot> hello Ubuntu :]
<kotof> hi
<leaftype> I keep trying to get the M10 FHD to reflash, and it fails on waiting to renter recovery mode
<leaftype> The device boots to system recovery, but the desktop never sees this
<dobey> leaftype: are you using the correct recovery.img file when flashing with ubuntu-device-flash?
<leaftype> dobey, I was using the recommended channel: ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/stable/bq-aquaris-pd.en --bootstrap
<leaftype> teh channel I found from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes/OTA-14
<dobey> leaftype: the factory recovery is locked. you need the recovery image from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices#Working_with_ubuntu-device-flash
<dobey> the recovery-frieza.img for M10 FHD, and you have to pass it to ubuntu-device-flash with --recovery-image arg
<leaftype> alright, thanks. So ubuntu-device-flash --recovery-image ~/Downloads/revovery-frieza.img ?
<dobey> yes
<dobey> along with the other args for flashing the device, at the same time
<leaftype> sweet, it's getting further than before. BTW, why does it still require the channel in the command to work, if it's using an image?
<dobey> the recovery isn't the system image, it's just for the recovery to enable flashing
<dobey> to enable adb in recovery to flash
<leaftype> ah, thanks! This lets me give an answer on askubuntu as well :)
<brunch875> guys, where does the ubuntu touch development discussion happen? Such as interface decisions... is it posible to spectate those?
<leaftype> woo! brand new fresh install working :D
<brunch875> good job, leaftype!
<pmcgowan> brunch875, you mean snap interfaces?
<brunch875> pmcgowan: I'm just wondering where the developers debate how they're going to implement snap, among other things. The mailing list I'm on has anouncements mixed with a lot of "I'm leaving ubuntu" whine.
<pmcgowan> brunch875, there is a snapcraft mailing list where this mainly happens
<pmcgowan> and in the PRs on github
<pmcgowan> and on #snappy
<brunch875> thanks!
<brunch875> is there anything else not just exclusive to snappy, but for the ubuntu phone in general?
<dobey> brunch875: you can watch MPs on unity8 and various projects i guess.
<pmcgowan> brunch875, there is nothing else, we likely need to do a better job of informing that mailing list of the snap work, but the updates from sil2100 cover much of it
<dobey> brunch875: for the large part of it, we're mostly "just do it" rather than a lot of discussion about it
<brunch875> ah, I see!
<pmcgowan> also true
<dobey> there's a lot of work that needs to be done, and we know the general direction, so a lot of it is just fixing things to align with that and work in the snap world
<brunch875> just what I needed, thanks! :)
<dobey> i suppoise once we have a decently functioning u8 snap on top of ubuntu-core snap on x86, we'll start working on how to get the android bits working under that and flashable onto a device of some sort
<brunch875> convergence sounds pretty close!
<brunch875> exciting times
<nhaines> dobey: I have interpreted "a device of some kind" as "my Nexus 7" and have emailed OMGUbuntu with the appropriate incindiary headline.  :)
<dobey> i'm pretty sure there is no way that snaps will ever be flashed onto my nexus 7 :)
<dobey> can't even flash current ubuntu images onto it, and android on it is even horrible
<nhaines> dobey: OTA-14 (and the last rc-proposed updates) were pretty pleasant.
<dobey> nhaines: 2012 n7 is not
<nhaines> dobey: oh, no, of course not.  I was thinking the 2013 n7.
<brunch875> the whole "android bits" bother me to no end. If only installing ubuntu was like on the pc...
<nhaines> brunch875: yes, well, the unfortunate result of ARM's lack of standardization.  :)
<brunch875> Are there no efforts to fix this issue?
<dobey> brunch875: get a fairphone i guess?
<nhaines> brunch875: there cannot be: most of the hardware used in commercial phones have no source drivers.
<brunch875> is the fairphone more flashing-friendly?
<brunch875> oof, so expensive
<dobey> the fairphone i think is supposed to have all open source drivers or something, so theoretically it could be run without the android bits
<dobey> but i could be wrong on that
<brunch875> I'm definitely getting one of those then
<dobey> ubports has a fairphone2 port
<dobey> would probably be a good place to start with figuring things out, but really, the short answer is no. google probably has enough clout to do it, but they don't seem to want to either
<brunch875> I wish the european union did something about this... buying a new phone to upgrade the linux kernel sounds insane to me
<nhaines> brunch875: you wish the EU to require all hardware manufacturers to develop and release open source Linux drivers for their hardware?
<brunch875> well, at some point; yes.
<brunch875> I want a rampage in Stallman's name, but the current situation is bad
<brunch875> I don't want a rampage*
<nhaines> brunch875: I could live with such a rampage.  :)
<dobey> nhaines, brunch875: well, it will certainly be interesting to see how the law suit against d-link pans out
<brunch875> dobey: could you link me about this?
<brunch875> what d-link lawsuit?
<dobey> https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/ftc-sues-d-link-over-router-and-camera-security-flaws
<brunch875> thanks
#ubuntu-touch 2017-01-11
<jarlath> Hi folks. My E4.5 (stable channel) screen is black when a call comes in so I often can't answer. If I get the timimng just right I can do it with the power button followed quickly by tapping on-screen button during the fraction of a second it shows. Similarly, I can't navigate voicemail or hang up a call. Is this a known issue? The closest I see on LP in this one
<jarlath> https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1532785
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1493574 in Canonical System Image "duplicate for #1532785 [vegeta] Phone app makes screen stay black during call (so you can't hang up)" [High,New]
<OhYash> people...
<OhYash> Any plans on updating th porting Guide?
<OhYash> it still talks about the cyanogenmod knowledge and links to cyanogenmod wiki (which is dead)
<popey> OhYash: probably best asking in #ubports
<iarebatman> Hey guys - just wanted to make sure of something before I waste some time on it..
<iarebatman> Judging from your 'Porting' page - it looks like I should be able to port ubuntu touch to my nexus 6p without it being a several-month endeavor... is that true or is there something specific about the 6p that I should consider a major blocker?
<iarebatman> I can flash custom loaders without it being an issue, I can snag the vendor binaries without that being an issue, it's aosp as far as I know...
<dobey> have you ever actually built kernels for devices and done anything like a port before?
<iarebatman> I'm familiar with building kernels & troubleshooting C/C++ compile issues, and I've flashed custom roms to my phones in the past, but I've never built the roms myself.
<iarebatman> I realize I may have to tweak some build/code to get it to compile - but I guess what I'm asking is - I don't have to implement new functionality that isn't there for this to work, do I?
<dobey> building a custom kernel and the system image to run ubuntu on a phone is very different from just simply building a standard kernel
<dobey> but you might want to join #ubports and see what's up there. it's at least under "voting devices" on https://devices.ubports.com/#/
<iarebatman> thanks dobey, I'll give that a shot..
<iarebatman> I'm assuming I'm missing something - because I would have thought the 6p would have been a prime target for ubuntu touch
<dobey> well you're not the first wanting to port it. but there still isn't a port
<dobey> porting is not a trivial task
<dobey> getting a device fully working and reliable can take a team of people a couple months
<iarebatman> yeah - I've seen people saying they want it working, but I've not seen anyone listing blockers they've encountered.. so I'm not sure why they failed, or if they simply didn't try
<dobey> if anything, i want to see a port to the new pixel phone
<iarebatman> I snagged the 6p because it works on pretty much every carrier
<iarebatman> Not a lot of phones you can have complete control over that you can throw on the verizon network (best available signal here =/ )
<dobey> eh, any unlocked gsm phone is pretty much fine for me as far as that goes. main issue with the pixel is that it's $750
<dobey> but pixel is a nice bit of kit, and only like 1mm larger than my nexus 5. so at least something i could probably deal with. any larger than that and i'm not interested
<robert_ancell> My click app (Animal Farm) is stuck on the recent upload. It says "Revision waiting for review of a previous upload.". Any idea what's blocking it?
#ubuntu-touch 2017-01-12
<Sander^home> Hi. Anyone know how the ubuntu cloud is integrated with phones theese days?
<Sander^home> Is that file cloud for desktop still possible to get up again for using on phones?
<elky> Sander^home: ubuntu one was scrapped quite a while ago
<Sander^home> Is the code ok? I heard it was due to not beeing that popular at that point.
<elky> i don't know
<elky> Sander^home: there are other options which will work fine like owncloud/nextcloud and even adhoc federated options like syncthing
<Sander^home> Tried owncloud a few years ago.. the websync was depending on the webservers stability and config which made it not work with high load..'
<Sander^home> nextcloud I didnt try tho.
<Sander^home> Have you trid any of them?
<Sander^home> WOndering what they can sync.
<david89> Hello. Are there any emulators of old game consoles on ubuntu touch?
<dobey> there's a couple in the store i think
<dobey> oh he left
#ubuntu-touch 2017-01-13
<lpotter> and boom. that's that.
<taiebot> Anyone noticed that google+ is not accessible anymore via ubuntu touch
<taiebot> Browser is not supported :-(
<ogra_> works fine here (with my app though)
<taiebot> https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1656310
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1656310 in Canonical System Image "google + is not accessible anymore via the browser app" [Undecided,New]
<madanra> The link to join the Ubuntu App Dev Telegram group on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/GetHelp is broken
<madanra> It opens Telegram, but says "This invite link is broken or has expired."
<_qzd_> Is there a plan to develop a  compatibility layer to run Android apps on the ubuntu phone in the future?
<k1l_> _qzd_: i dont think so.
#ubuntu-touch 2017-01-14
<mimecar> good morning...
<calcidio> buongiorno
<calcidio> sono neofita sapresti darmi notizie su aggiornamenti
<muka> what are the cons of installing ubuntu touch via multirom?
#ubuntu-touch 2017-01-15
<javier4> I'm issuing a problem launching any app on the device I'm porting UT to. They seem to start but just after I see a black curtain coming from right, and the app icon, it disappears. Here is the relevant unity8.log
<javier4> http://pastebin.com/kz2DdSAq
<javier4>  
