#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-17
<tanders121> ailo: ping
 * abogani waves all
<abogani> Anyone could suggest me a ID tag application?
 * abogani is trying to sort out the mess of his mp3 collection...
<abogani> No suggestions? :-(
<jussi> abogani: what are you trying to do? tag your music? 
<abogani> jussi: Hi Jussi! :-) Yes exactly!
<jussi> theres one called cowbell iirc...
<ailo> ( I always use random play functions :)
<abogani> jussi: Thanks!
<jussi> !info cowbell
<ubottu> cowbell (source: cowbell): An easy-to-use tag editor for your music files. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2.7.1-5 (maverick), package size 91 kB, installed size 540 kB
<jussi> abogani: see above :)
<abogani> jussi :-)
<ailo> abogani: Thanks for the tip on using zenity. Took me a while to realize how much it can do.
<ailo> Now, I'm working on replacing -controls with a script using only that.
<abogani> ailo: You are welcome.
<ailo> ScottL: Getting anywhere? I was at least able to update today. Unity is a mess right now.
<scott-work> paultag: i talked with didrocks this morning and have a rough plan to check a few things and then get back with him tomorrow :)
<scott-work> plus i also worked on a new plymouth theme based on what cory had done 
<holstein> scott-work: COOL
<holstein> you got a screenie ?
<paultag> scott-work: rock on dude!
<scott-work> holstein: it's the same thing that you saw before
<scott-work> holstein: http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/new-plymouth-theme.png
<scott-work> that was the old one
<scott-work> i removed the "10.10" from the "ubuntu studio" and centered it, i also got rid of the progress bar which is fairly useless on some of the newer computers where you only see the splash screen for a second or two anyway
<paultag> scott-work: that, friend, is sexy as all hell
<scott-work> paultag:  two things to mention about it:  1) the thing that looks like a rain drop splash left of the CoF should be centered over the CoF and spins around it, 2) i really didn't do anything substantial on it, it's cory kontros's
<scott-work> i was using the plymouth x11 plugin to make those screenshot and the rotating thingie didn't line up correctly for some reason :(   kinda takes away from the screenshot
<paultag> scott-work: boot up the ISO in a vbox and snap it ;)
<scott-work> paultag: well, all i really had for development was a single core p4 before and vbox didn't work so hot on it :P
<paultag> scott-work: haha heard that ;)
<paultag> OK, off to Cleveland!
<paultag> Much love, all :)
<scott-work> paultag: but i do have a dual core now that will suffice, so i'll have to see about getting it setup there
<scott-work> paultag: be careful
<paultag> will do
<scott-work> now, if i could get someone from the kernel team to let me know how the kernel panic is coming along i would feel a lot better ;)
<ailo> scott-work: Ready to try the script yet?
<ailo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/555136/
<ailo> You'll need to install libnotify-bin and make sure you are not in audio group to test it.
<ailo> The skeleton is there. Needs some work here and there + work with the text.
<ailo> I use it now as a startup application. Works pretty well. I could be used right after an installation too, I suppose.
<scott-work> ailo: either tonight or tomorrow i can test it, probably tomorrow to be honest because i wanted to run some tests for the default xsession problem for didrocks first
<paultag> ailo: if you email me, I can review it
<paultag> ailo: I'm just running out for food
<ailo> paultag: I sent the script as a mail
<ailo> scott-work: No problem. Just fishing for some feedback.
<ailo> holstein tried it, and seemed to like it.
<ailo> paultag: There are a few problems in the script. One is getting the gksudo command to be a loop, which can be exited only if user chooses cancel.
<ailo> And, the zenity stuff will need to be expanded, so that the user can choose PPA and audio group separately.
<paultag> ailo: sure, no problemo
<paultag> ailo: bbl!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-18
<ailo> paultag: You there?
<scott-work> TheMuso`:  okay, i've talked quite a bit to didrocks about the gnome xsession situation and it appears that the code is correct already, i just didn't understand how to test it properly
<scott-work> TheMuso`: so, bar a bad test tonight, i should be able to move forward with getting a diff attached to the bug report
<scott-work> TheMuso`: which should be by the end of the week then
<ailo> Hey paultag, whats up?
<paultag> ailo: nada, just in loco-meeting
<paultag> ailo: got your email, I plan to review it today :)
<ailo> Thanks. I did fix the gksudo loop later.
<paultag> :)
<paultag> ailo: is this script in VCS?
<ailo> What's VCS?
<paultag> ailo: version control system, such as (in order) git, bzr, svn ?
<ailo> No, just in a folder on my system so far.
<ailo> Haven't started using those so much yet.
<ailo> I'm going to use git later on for other stuff.
<ailo> I could add it to gitorious.
<TheMuso`> scott-work: Sweet.
<paultag> ailo: ok, great
<paultag> ailo: github is nice, as well
<paultag> ailo: but any git is good git
<ailo> paultag: already have an account on gitorious, so I might as well use that. Been testing Sparkleshare on it. 
<paultag> ailo: great :)
<falktx> hey there
<falktx> I have some good news
<falktx> I'm finally going to officially announce the new team PPAs !
 * falktx hopes network gets a little faster
<ailo> paultag: git://gitorious.org/audio-system-check_11-04/audio-system-check_11-04.git audio-system-check_11-04
<paultag> ailo: got it, thanks!
<paultag> ailo: let me know when I need to pull
<ailo> paultag: sure. How do you want to be notified?
<paultag> ailo: however :)
<paultag> ailo: you won't disturb me
<falktx> ailo: can I use some of your scripts ?
<ailo> falktx: be my guest
<falktx> ailo: nice! what does it check currently ?
<ailo> falktx: Does zenity work on KDE?
<ailo> falktx: audio group and -lowlatency kernel
<falktx> ailo: zenity works, although kde has a nice zenity-like tool too
<ailo> falktx: Ok, so at least it's not Gnome specific then..
<falktx> ailo: you should check winetricks, it uses both methods (nice on gnome and kde)
<ailo> falktx: Thanks. I'll check it out.
<falktx> important! thread created - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1670196
<falktx> tell me what you think please..!
<falktx> anyone?
<falktx> ailo: paultag: TheMuso: scott-work: please...
<ailo> falktx: It's a lot to check out :)
 * TheMuso doesn't read forums very much, but I'll take a look.
<falktx> thanks guys
<falktx> so?
<falktx> well, later
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-19
<ailo> tanders12: Hey..
<scott-work> falktx_bad_net: firstly, lol @ your name, secondly i posted in the ubuntu forums post
<falktx_bad_net> yes, scott-work, I'm *trying* to reply...
<scott-work> falktx_bad_net: to help keep the post currently (and at the top of the list) and to help explain the concept/educate people would you like me to post some questions to which you can respond?
<falktx_bad_net> scott-work: now or on the thread ?
<falktx_bad_net> oh, post
<falktx_bad_net> falktx_bad_net: yes, ask anything you want
<falktx_bad_net> lol, scott-work ^
<scott-work> lol
<rexbron> hey everyone
<scott-work> hi rexbron
<rexbron> hey scott-work
<scott-work> hey, does anyone want to dig into why the ubuntustudio-video package keeps creating uninstallable binaries?
<scott-work> if not i'll make time next week to check it out
<ailo> scott-work: do you know which cause the problem?
<scott-work> ailo: i'm not really sure, i was going to first check to see if one of the individual packages was having trouble building, but that might not be the right path forward?
<scott-work> ailo: after that (just so i had done the most basic homework for it) i was going to ask in #ubuntu-motu for some suggestions
<scott-work> of what to look at
<ailo> scott-work: I still don't know anything about the build procedure. I'm pretty ignorant of how Ubuntu works on that level. I guess I would need to find out about some things before I could assist?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-20
<paultag> ScottL: where's the dsc?
<paultag> ailo: script looks good :)
<paultag> ailo: keep up the work :)
<holstein> yeah, i tried it paultag 
<paultag> holstein: yeah?
<holstein> ailo 's script
<paultag> holstein: mmhum
<holstein> works great
<paultag> holstein: great :)
<holstein> ailo suggested adding it as a starup item
<holstein> startup*
<holstein> so it just checks on login
<holstein> and if youre good to go, you dont see anything
<holstein> ScottL: did you get a chance to check it out?
<paultag> holstein: there are stylistic stuff i'd change, but ailo knows my comments &c
<paultag> holstein: and he knows I'm here :)
<holstein> i think it addresses the concerns we have for 11.04
<holstein> paultag: it popped up, and added me to the audio group no problem
<paultag> radical
<holstein> i did have to install some notify packages
<holstein> that probably are supposed to be there
<holstein> not sure
<holstein> 11.04 is definitely in flux at times 
<ScottL> paultag, which dsc?
<ScottL> holstein, not yet, my schedule backed up a bit and probably by friday
<holstein> ScottL: no worries
<holstein> we should talk about another meeting soon i think
<holstein> ScottL: im thinking a weekend day
<holstein> sunday?
<holstein> *not this sunday
<ScottL> holstein, do you mean for ubuntustudio in general or for the website?
<holstein> both hopefully
<holstein> depending on turn-out i suppose
<ScottL> holstein, if for the website then we should try to schedule around stochastic (although i really doubt he will be of much help currently)
<holstein> ScottL: if you're sitting around in the next week or so
<holstein> with some time
<holstein> ping me
<ScottL> paultag, if you mean the .dsc for ubuntustudio-video:  ubuntustudio-video.dsc
<holstein> and we'll work on how i can plan whatever meeting we need
<ScottL> paultag, crap...holdon
<ScottL> paultag, okay, here is the ubuntustudio-video.dsc:  http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/u/ubuntustudio-meta/ubuntustudio-meta_0.76.dsc
<ScottL> although i'm not sure that's any help, i had even looked at the build logs for "video" but didn't find anything strange
<ScottL> holstein, i'll try tomorrow during the day while i'm at work
<holstein> no hurry :)
<ScottL> holstein, it's funny, but i have more time to talk usually during work than when i'm at home :P
<ScottL> paultag, buildlog for ubuntustudio-meta (of which ubuntustudio-video is a binary): http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59771827/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.ubuntustudio-meta_0.76_BUILDING.txt.gz
<paultag> ScottL: do you have a dsc?
<ScottL> paultag, a dsc file?
<ScottL> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/u/ubuntustudio-meta/ubuntustudio-meta_0.76.dsc
<ScottL> and this page  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/i386/ubuntustudio-video/0.76 says that -video depends on:
<ScottL> Depends on:
<ScottL>     * blender
<ScottL>     * ffmpeg
<ScottL>     * ffmpeg2theora
<ScottL>     * k3b
<ScottL>     * openshot
<ScottL>     * qdvdauthor
<ScottL>     * subtitleeditor
<ScottL>     * xjadeo
<paultag> thanks ScottL :)
<paultag> ScottL: I'll attempt a build here
<paultag> ScottL: right off the bat
<paultag> ScottL: I found your error -- ubuntustudio-meta source: debhelper-but-no-misc-depends ubuntustudio-audio
<paultag> N:    The source package uses debhelper, but it does not include
<paultag> N:    ${misc:Depends} in the given binary package's debian/control entry. Any
<paultag> N:    debhelper command may add dependencies to ${misc:Depends} that are
<paultag> N:    required for the work that it does, so recommended best practice is to
<paultag> N:    always add ${misc:Depends} to the dependencies of each binary package if
<paultag> N:    debhelper is in use.
<paultag> I'll try a build anyway, but that's a serious issue :)
<paultag> ScottL: Whoh, wait wtf!? That package was accepted into the repos?
<ScottL> paultag, that's because there is no ubuntustudio-audio anymore, it was divided into ubuntustudo-recording and ubuntustudio-generation
<paultag> humm'
<ScottL> paultag, aye, but it's my work with TheMuso making small checks and pushing it in
<paultag> Ah
<ScottL> paultag, but weird thing is that it only started failing within the week :/
<paultag> ScottL: let me dig deeper so I'm sure I understand
<paultag> Oh...
<paultag> that actually looks OK
<paultag> ScottL: the long description should have the phrase "meta-package" in it
<paultag> ScottL: just a purely strict note -- that's how some stuff checks to make sure it's OK to be empty
<paultag> Spam:
<paultag> N:    If the package is deliberately empty, please mention in the package long
<paultag> N:    description one of the phrases "meta-package," "dummy," "dependency
<paultag> N:    package," "empty package," or "virtual package."
<paultag> ScottL: another error that might be nice to look into: http://pastebin.com/nRA9ZXqL
<paultag> ScottL: other then that, they look like they're building
<paultag> ScottL: I don't really want to install these on my box, if you have a few more minutes, I'll set up a chroot to test installability
<paultag> ScottL: it builds and works fine, as far as I can tell. The issue must be the package selection
<paultag> ScottL: I'm testing it now, I'm downloading a new image just for this :)
<paultag> I have a hunch it's x11 fonts, but I'm not sure at all
<paultag> ScottL: aptitude is installing -desktop now, from my build deb against the dsc you sent me
<paultag> ScottL: I'll test it all
<ScottL> paultag, sorry, been away working on plymouth stuff upstairs, reading backscroll now
<paultag> ScottL: it's OK. This will be another few minutes
<paultag> :)
<ScottL> sorry, but now i'm working with my 3yo to find a movie for bed
<paultag> ScottL: dude, seriously
<paultag> ScottL: if you say sorry for doing family stuff
<paultag> ScottL: one more damn time
<paultag> ScottL: I'm going to flip shit. You're a dad
<paultag> if my dad blew me off when I was a kid to work on something like this, I'd be pissed
<paultag> ScottL: everything built and installed
<ScottL> paultag, lol, roger that
<paultag> ScottL: yeah, no issues on install here. Everything looks good. Do you have logs of your error? 
<ScottL> paultag, i just get an automated email from colin watson that ubuntustudio-video produces uninstallable binaries
<paultag> ScottL: do you have a copy of the mail you can send me?
<paultag> ScottL: I can't find issues, I'd like to solve this for ya :)
<ScottL> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2011-January/002925.html
<ScottL> that's the email, yeah, it's weird
<paultag> ScottL: it could be a fluke. I can't verify, perhaps it was because a package was in flux
<paultag> ScottL: you have issues on that package, for sure, but nothing that prevents install IMHO
<ScottL> paultag, it may be a fluke but it's been going on for about a week :|  weird
<paultag> ScottL: srsly?
<paultag> crap.
<paultag> let me quadruple check
<ScottL> a (slightly) better look at the plymouth theme:  if you remember the pictures and how the automated circle wasn't aligned on the CoF: http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/new-plymouth-theme.png
<paultag> ah :)
<ScottL> now a slightly fuzzy video to accompany it; http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/video/plymouth.ogv
<paultag> awesome!
<ScottL> at least now you can see the animation
<paultag> for sure
<ScottL> eh, i couldn't get the damn thing to show up in VM
<ScottL> i was going to use gtkrecordmydesktop or istanbul but when i updated the plymouth theme it just wouldn't show in VM
<ScottL> eh
<ScottL> i took that video with the family camcorder, which is neither HD nor recently purchased :P, but it is what it is
<ScottL> i used blender to cut away all the other parts and created a loop
<paultag> ScottL: yeah, dude. I can install it using natty bleeding
<paultag> ScottL: something else is going on
<paultag> ScottL: might be worth a persia or TheMuso ping
<persia> The plymouth theme requires accelerated video, and KMS-capable drivers, which aren't available in VM.  The uninstallable binaries problem is usually caused by something deeper in the stack: try installing it from a minimal environment, or testing a daily image install (of only -video)
<paultag> ScottL: no, sorry -- ubuntustudio-video is reporting as uninstallable
<paultag> damnit, sorry -- persia 
<paultag> persia: I did a run on the dsc, there are some serious issues, but none that cause an issue to install
<paultag> persia: it built fine ( save that meta-package was not in the long-description, so it thought it was empty on error ), and installed fine
<persia> paultag, You were able to install ubuntustudio-video from a new daily?  The same version currently in the archive?
<paultag> persia: I tested it all in clean natty chroots, and a natty pbuilder
<paultag> persia: the DSC that ScottL provided me
<paultag> persia: and I'm confused because it worked
<paultag> persia: ubuntustudio-meta_0.76.dsc
<persia> uninstallable binaries is always about .deb files, not .dsc files.
<paultag> persia: I understand, but I pbuilt it
<persia> Yes, but that may not have the same result as the autobuild, as the build-dependencies may have changed.
<paultag> persia: Must not be, I have an installable set of debs
<paultag> persia: any idea why it's failing on the archive? ScottL is getting mail about it failing to install
 * persia is waiting for a natty chroot to become available
<paultag> :)
<persia> So, the issue is that qdvdauthor has been removed from natty.  ubuntustudio-video needs a rebuild, and would be fine.  A better solution is to update the seeds, then rebuild.
<paultag> persia: any idea why it was working on my system?
<persia> The local build was fine because the germinate package build process never creates uninstallable binaries: they can only happen if the packages change *after* build.
<paultag> Ahhhhhhh
<persia> So the local package doesn't depend on qdvdauthor, although the binary in the archive does.
<paultag> I see, I see
<paultag> persia: great, that solves a lot. A simple re-upload should solve it ( after fixing germinate, of course, even though it should work without a tweek )
<persia> local rebuilds are a wonderful way to check if some source is clean, but when investigating issues with binary packages in the archive (NBS, uninstallable, unmetdeps, etc.), apt-cache or inspection of the archive binary is more useful.
<persia> A simple rebuild would work, although seed changes would be better.
<paultag> persia: I see. I still have tons to learn with packaging -- I've only dabbled
<persia> There's some reason that qdvdauthor was selected.  Since that isn't available, a replacement should be seeded.
<paultag> persia: aye, something ScottL might want to fix up :)
<persia> Also, qvdauthor was from multiverse: the rest of the seeded packages should be checked: if there is stuff from multiverse, it ought be inspected to ensure the license doesn't block any of the known uses of Ubuntu Studio.
<ScottL> persia, hi!
<ScottL> persia, paultag: yes, i will find something to replace dvdauthor in the next days as well as inspect the other packages to see if they are in multiverse as well
<ScottL> top of the morning to everyone :)
<paultag> ScottL: Howdy!
<paultag> Just getting ready to go Scuba diving
<paultag> college rules
<ScottL> i think i <3 paultag 's life :P
<ScottL> i'm getting the kids up for school and babysitter in contrast
<paultag> ScottL: nah, I live the life of a dirty college kid who lives with 6 other people
<paultag> ScottL: but, yeah this is rad. I'm getting certified to Scuba, so if you need programmers underwater, you let me know
<astraljava> ScottL: "Getting the babysitter?" Sound promising, and is much more that I am "getting" these days. :D
 * paultag highfives astraljava 
<paultag> astraljava: NICE!
 * astraljava bows humbly
<holstein> AutoStatic: ping
<AutoStatic> Hello holstein
<holstein> AutoStatic: morning :)
<holstein> if we had a meeting here
<holstein> what would be the best time/day for you?
<holstein> i was going to try for sunday afternoon my time
<holstein> afternoon/evening
<AutoStatic> weekdays between 10.00 and 17.00 CET
<ailo> Put around +6 hours for us in Europe
<ailo> Something like 3pm your time, holstein?
<holstein> thats going to be tough :/
<holstein> ScottL will be at work then
<AutoStatic> In the evening is ok (CET) but not on tuesday and sunday, the n I'm rehearsing
<holstein> thats 3am to 11am my time
<holstein> i think thats 4am til noon for ScottL 
<holstein> hmmm
<holstein> AutoStatic: sundays are not great for me either
<holstein> ailo: you're in the same TZ ?
<holstein> how about something in the afternoon saturday?
<ailo> I'm +1. So is abogani.
<holstein> like 10am for you guys?
<ailo> holstein. Your afternoon would be our late night, no?
<ailo> Or evening, I mean
<holstein> im probably going backwards
<AutoStatic> 10am sounds good to me
<AutoStatic> I'm up early anyway
<holstein> YEAH
<holstein> the other way
<ailo> 10am would be 4pm
<holstein> 4p for you guys
<holstein> am for us
<AutoStatic> ah oh, 4pm should be ok too
<AutoStatic> I do have a baby to feed ;)
<holstein> AutoStatic: i'll see what ScottL 's saturdays are like usually
<AutoStatic> and to look after :)
<abogani> ailo: Where do you come from?
<holstein> AutoStatic: i'll try and get it on the fridge
<holstein> for the TZ's
<holstein> maybe a couple weeks or so from now
<ailo> abogani: Sweden. 
<abogani> ailo: Wow
<ailo> (Finland originally)
<holstein> hopefully before we miss 11.04 freeze or whatever
<scott-work> i finally got a response from canonical about selling ubuntu studio merchandise to try to fund development...they said no
<scott-work> although it can be done for personal use, just not commercial
<holstein> scott-work: maybe it should be a different question
<holstein> how do we get the funds necessary for ubuntu studio specific development ?
<holstein> scott-work: how are saturday mornings for you?
<holstein> for a meeting, say 10am my time
<scott-work> holstein: i can make any time work almost, except for while i'm asleep
<scott-work> holstein: re: funds - that's a good thought, i just might start poking people to do that
<scott-work> although i admit that i have harped on getting developer help for quite some time, and when ailo and paultag offered help i found myself unsure what really needed to be developed
<scott-work> so, before i do push any further it would be prudent to identify areas we want development
<scott-work> also how it might also affect ubuntu in general to make it more palatable and appealing to canonical
<ailo> scott-work: Sounds good to me..
<scott-work> holstein: last night you mentioned getting a minute to talk, anytime you are ready let me know
<scott-work> ailo: today i want to spend some time developing a better spec for the ubuntustudio-controls/kernel imrpovements
<ailo> scott-work: I'm for a remake of ubuntustudio-controls. I don't feel it is critical to have it ready for Natty, though.
<scott-work> ailo: i thought it would be the vehicle for getting your script into ubuntu studio
<scott-work> and the -controls improvements could even be staggered between releases
<ailo> scott-work: My script is designed to run at startup, or automatically started for instance after installation of audio meta-packages.
<scott-work> ailo: aye, but we need someone to actually get in onto the image, which would mean either a new package or include it in an existing package, no?
<ailo> Yes. And we need to add at least one dependency.
<ailo> So, is it only MOTU that gets our packages into the repo?
<ailo> Scott-work: -lowlatency and audio group are related only to audio, but in a way I think those could just as well be regarded as the standard setup for US.
<ailo> Since they should not cause any problems.
<scott-work> ailo:  but how will the script run?  will the user have to run it manually or will it run automatically after a fresh install?
<ailo> I don't know how to make "install scripts" for packages, so I don't know how to put it where it needs to be, and how to activate it without rebooting, but..
<ailo> If I add it as a startup application, it will run at every boot
<ailo> It would be best if it ran after install too, or that something similar to the script was included in the installation itself.
<ailo> If we could add the choices into a package installation, maybe my script is not as important, or could be used just to notify the user when booting into the wrong kernel.
<ailo> Am I making any sence?
<ailo> scott-work: Automatically adding PPA to a package installation is not allowed, but how about if we present the choice during installation?
<ailo> Is it still not allowed?
<ailo> scott-work: I've only just begun to learn about packaging, but I could find out about all the options and have different possible solutions ready around this script 'til next meeting. 
<scott-work> ailo: my understanding is that if any code in not in a package in the repository then it cannot be added to the image during building
<ailo> scott-work: so how and when can we add it?
<scott-work> ailo:  so, i think we have two choices forward: 1) let the user choose to download and run it   or 2) include it into a package
<scott-work> ailo: i think #2 is the better choice
<scott-work> ailo: i think adding it to the -controls package seems most relevent, but someone else might have a better suggestion
<scott-work> ailo: but i think part of your script should be incorporated into this update (especially the part checking the kernel version, etc)
<scott-work> if not all of your script
<scott-work> ailo:  i would also expect that we can use the -controls gui to offer the choices to the user to enable the PPA and install the kernel after your script checks it
<ailo> scott-work: I know you checked if adding a PPA being a part of a package installation was allowed and they said no, but how about if the user is given the choice during the install? I think that would be the absolute best.
<ailo> Using the -controls gui could be preferable.
<ailo> For my script, that is
<scott-work> ailo: i think that giving the user the choice to add the PPA and install the kernel would be acceptable
<ailo> scott-work: Let's add that. If possible, also put user in audio group, but I don't know if that can be done from a package installation. I suppose it is run as root.
<scott-work> ailo: we should really find a mechanism to allow all this to happen not just during "package installation" because many people will also be installing from the ubuntustudio image/dvd
<ailo> scott-work: Won't it work the same way, no matter how you install it? 
<scott-work> ailo:  i don't think so if you are asking the user to click something, the full installation will want to reboot after it installs and unless you also have it check on reboot 
<ailo> scott-work: No clicking. Just like installing jackd
<ailo> You are given the choice to add the limit.d stuff
<scott-work> ailo: okay, that might work also then :)
<ailo> scott-work: Maybe "postinst" script, a part of a package. I was just reading about it, so I'm not sure.
<scott-work> i was envisioning this as more of an automated script to run and check, then bring up ubuntustudio-controls to the "kernel tab" of the gui and tell them they could improve performance if they click the button and hit okay
<ailo> scott-work: That is what my script does, essentially, but if we can add the kernel already at base install, is that not better
<ailo> And we can still use my script
<scott-work> ailo: thinking on this, i'm not sure during the install is the right place after all, at the point of installing other packages the kernel has already been installed during the full install
<ailo> scott-work: The effect will be the same either way, no?
<scott-work> ailo: i don't know if it would be during the initial installation, we should probably asking persia or TheMuso about such a thing
<ailo> persia: TheMuso: Could you help us out?
<scott-work> but i feel fairly confident if we moved the actual installation of the kernel into the -controls package and either let the user or the script call up -controls then it should work without problem
<ailo> scott-work: It would work. I would replace the -controls entirely, though. And I'm not absolutely sure we need it to get what we want.
<ailo> I mean, it looks nice, and can be started independently. Maybe for that reason only.
<ailo> We don't need it to get what we want, but it could be a nice extra.
<ailo> scott-work: Did you try the script yet?
<ailo> Just do: git clone git://gitorious.org/audio-system-check_11-04/audio-system-check_11-04.git audio-system-check_11-04
<scott-work> i'll try it tonight and then move back to packaging the xsession fix
<falktx> scott-work: hey there
<scott-work> hi falktx 
<paultag> scott-work: I'll stick in a holding pattern. Things tend to be small and short-term, and workarounds are found ( but not ideal )
<paultag> scott-work: so I can help snipe issues as they pop up
<paultag> think of it as a code retainer ;)
<scott-work> lol
<quadrispro> hi all
<paultag> hey quadrispro 
<quadrispro> new swami release will reach natty soon
<quadrispro> ehy paultag !
<paultag> quadrispro: s'new?
<quadrispro> ?
<quadrispro> paultag, what? :)
<paultag> quadrispro: what's new?
<quadrispro> paultag, about swami?
<paultag> quadrispro: no, goofball, you
<falktx> quadrispro: hey there
<quadrispro> lol
<falktx> quadrispro: do you know the "juce" library ?
<quadrispro> paultag, I'm sorry, very tired tonight :)
<paultag> quadrispro: quite alright
<quadrispro> paultag, thoughts are coming with an huge delay to my mind
<quadrispro> paultag, nothing of particular, squeeze is coming out, I have always the same 4 exams to get my f***ing degree
<paultag> quadrispro: truth
<quadrispro> and althought life is hard, it's always beautiful
<quadrispro> (cit. R. Benigni)
<quadrispro> falktx, I've seen something but never tried
<quadrispro> paultag, and you mate? how're you doing?
<paultag> quadrispro: well, thanks. School's just picking up again, getting depressing
<falktx> quadrispro: I started packaging it for the ppa, if you're interested just let me know
<quadrispro> falktx, fst: which git branch should I push into debian?
<falktx> quadrispro: i recommend jack-session
<scott-work> quadrispro: is eq10 (or whatever it name is) is also in debian :)
<falktx> people seem to care about jacksession...
<scott-work> eq10q is the pacakge
<quadrispro> paultag, school gives everyone the same feeling! :)
<paultag> :)
<quadrispro> falktx, good to know (for both)
<quadrispro> scott-work, eq10q is broken, I've been thinking to ask ftp-master to remove it for now
<quadrispro> this time JaromÃ¬r failed to do a good job
<quadrispro> (unfortunately)
<quadrispro> and I failed, too, in reviewing it
<falktx> quadrispro: how broken ?
<scott-work> quadrispro: oh, that's sad but it happens from time to time
<quadrispro> falktx, get it, build and try to load it 
<quadrispro> and let me know :)
<falktx> quadrispro: i have it working here
<falktx> (not from debian)
<falktx> quadrispro: let me check it
<quadrispro> falktx, so please help me reviewing the package: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-multimedia/eq10q.git
<quadrispro> I don't have so much time this period
 * quadrispro announcement: natty will have a great gmerlin version
<falktx> quadrispro: has anyone looked at foo-yc20 ?
<quadrispro> unfortunately, I think that ftp-masters will not accept gmerlin-avdecoder and gmerlin-encoders in time for the release
<quadrispro> falktx, already uploaded, ftp-master rule now
<quadrispro> s/master/masters/
<falktx> quadrispro: there's a new version with lv2 support
<paultag> falktx: quadrispro: ftp-masters stop doing NEW queues during freeze, unless you have a reason
<quadrispro> paultag, they have accepted many packages in the last month, but now squeeze is so near
<quadrispro> falktx, which version?
<quadrispro> I see 1.1.0 in the vcs
<paultag> quadrispro: yes, like one of mine
<paultag> quadrispro: but I talked with one of the ftp-masters and got it reviewd
<falktx> quadrispro: http://linuxaudio.org/mailarchive/laa/2011/1/20/177875
<quadrispro> well
<falktx> it has VST too, I'll try to compiled it
<quadrispro> pushed
<holstein> scott-work: got busy
<holstein> i'll try and catch you later
<holstein> i was thinking development in general though
<scott-work> holstein: sounds good :)  anytime
<holstein> couple guys like falk and abogani on staff
<holstein> not that that would happen
<falktx> quadrispro: ha, I can see you working...
<quadrispro> http://debomatic64.debian.net/unstable/pool/foo-yc20_1.2.0-1/foo-yc20_1.2.0-1.buildlog
<quadrispro> builds fine
<falktx> cool
<quadrispro> a number of stuff to tune now
<quadrispro> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-multimedia/foo-yc20.git
<quadrispro> go to the above URL to see the progress
<falktx> quadrispro: eq10q doesnt build for me (missing lvplugin.hpp)
<falktx> ah, missing stuff. instaling now
<falktx> quadrispro: thanks for swami! is it safe to backport ?
<quadrispro> falktx, no tests here, we should give it a try
<falktx> quadrispro: eq10q still fails to build for me
 * falktx makes a diff
<falktx> I think it's the patches that are a bit off
<falktx> hm... fixed?
<falktx> quadrispro: is eq10q pushed to debian ?
<quadrispro> yep
<falktx> quadrispro: I fixed the patch (package now builds)
<quadrispro> eh, and does it work?
<falktx> let me test
<falktx> quadrispro: the plugin loads (shows GUI)
<falktx> but I dont know how to use it 
 * quadrispro on phone
<falktx> quadrispro: I sent you the patch by mail
<quadrispro> falktx, thank you, 'll take a look later!
<falktx> :)
<quadrispro> going away now, see you guys!
<falktx> err, foo-yc20 freezes when compiling
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-21
<ScottL> TheMuso, the current version of ubuntustudi-default-settings is -0.26ubuntu2 
<ScottL> TheMuso, when building it local to create the diff, should i go ahead and up the version to -0.27 ?
<TheMuso> ScottL: Yes.
<ScottL> TheMuso, or should i use some form of -0.26~ppa1
<TheMuso> No 0.27
<ScottL> TheMuso, okay, i'm hoping to have the diff attached to the bug tonight then
<TheMuso> ok cool.
<ScottL> gack, if i can remember to update my pbuilder before i try to build ;)
<TheMuso> heh
<scott-work> the kernel blueprint for natty has been updated to that only the derivative's documentation is left :)  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-version-and-flavours
<scott-work> hopefully this means we will see the documentation for getting the -lowlatency kernel into the repository soon
<scott-work> TheMuso: just to let you know that my last test failed on the xsession patch :(   i'm not sure if it's a VM thing or not, although i wouldn't expect it to be
<scott-work> TheMuso: i'm going to try another test on a full natty install and see if it differs
<scott-work> TheMuso: the strange thing is that didrocks told that that it should be creating or modifying the /etc/gdm/custom.conf file for:
<scott-work> [daemon]
<scott-work> default=gnome-classic
<scott-work>  
<scott-work> which is appears to do on on my previous test and last nights in VM, so i'm a bit stumped
<scott-work> i haven't had time to find didrocks this mornning and he's not in IRC currently
<scott-work> so i might have to wait until monday to get an answer from him
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-22
<ScottL> anyone interested in helping my test the new plymouth theme?  http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/temp/plymouth-theme-ubuntustudio_0.38.7_all.deb
<ailo> Works great ScottL. Only thing I reacted to was that maybe the text was a little small. 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-23
<ScottL> ailo, thanks, yeah, i thought so too but i was trying to work off of what cory had sent me, which unfortunately was a .png file, at least i got rid of the "10.10" after the "ubuntu studio" :P
<ScottL> ailo, i might email cory tonight to see if he still has the original .svg or whatever it he used
<ScottL> ailo, but thank you again for checking it, it took about three hours to suss out why it wouldn't update correctly 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-01-16
<scott-upstairs> falktx, when you helped me the other day with -default-settings package, did you push anythign to bzr?
<falktx> scott-upstairs: nope
<scott-upstairs> can you tell me what change you made so i can add that after i fix my stupid merge mistake?
<falktx> haha
<falktx> scott-upstairs: debian/*.install
<falktx> remove debian/tmp/ from them
<falktx> so they become only
<falktx> etc/
<scott-upstairs> and i mean to tell you that it was a stupid mistake too
<falktx> usr/
<scott-upstairs> oh, that's easy
<falktx> scott-upstairs: I think debian/control has an error in there too, not sure
<scott-upstairs> yeah, both changelog and control had issues
<scott-upstairs> mainly i would say it is my incomplete understanding of packaging, code, and bzr that is the root of it
<scott-upstairs> falktx, do you remember specifically what the problem was in debian/control?
<falktx> scott-upstairs: maintainer field, ":" character
<scott-upstairs> falktx, also, can you tell me how i can get the source code for the 3.2.0-8.15 kernel instead of the 3.2.0-8.8 one from https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/lowlatency/+packages
<scott-upstairs> falktx, thanks on mainteiner field
<scott-upstairs> falktx, i added abogani's ppa and i've tried getting source but it's always the 3.2.0.8.8 code
<falktx> well, that's his source
<scott-upstairs> but aren't they two different versions?  8.15 vs 8.8?
<falktx> yeah
<falktx> got the last one
<falktx> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/linux_3.2.0.orig.tar.gz
<falktx> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/linux_3.2.0-9.16.diff.gz
<falktx> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/linux_3.2.0-9.16.dsc
<falktx> 3.2.0-9.16
<scott-upstairs> falktx, i just need to get alessio's latest version from his ppa so i can upload it to REVU to get it into the archives
<scott-upstairs> every time i try to get the source it says it's getting the linux-meta-lowlatency one which is the wrong version
<scott-upstairs> do i just need to wait until alessio is online to clear it up?
<falktx> ah, you need to specify the correct package
<falktx> apt-get source linux-image-3.2.0-8-lowlatency
<falktx> scott-upstairs: ^is that what you need?
<ScottL> falktx, i will try, super thanks, man!
<ScottL> oh, falktx , hold on a minute
<falktx> one minute counting
<scott-upstairs> falktx, can you help with a ubiquity patch?  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-ubuntustudio-livedvd
<scott-upstairs> we want to use this (ala edubuntu) to replace tasksel during install when we move to live dvd
<scott-upstairs> no one really understands it at this point except stephane (with edubuntu), as far as i know
<falktx> that can take a whilte
<falktx> scott-upstairs: can you ping me up tomorrow? I'm in a rush to get some things done
<scott-upstairs> falktx, not a big rush at this point, i will not be ready for a week at the soonest
<scott-upstairs> falktx, and thanks for all you have already done :)  it's been a huge help
<falktx> beh, it was literally nothing
<scott-upstairs> i don't mean just in the past few days, you've helped quite a bit
<scott-upstairs> and i just built -default-settings locally and will push the fix now
<falktx> :)
<abogani> scott-upstairs, ScottL: I have just updated -lowlatency and realtime kernels to 9.16
<scott-work> thansk abogani :)
<scott-work> i tried to upload the previous version to REVU but couldn't and REVU seems to be down currently, not sure about that though
<scott-work> hopefully tonight i get the seeds modified for the theme-ui changes and the multi-head support as well, although i need to review my notes to make sure i'm not missing anything
<astraljava> scott-work: I thought about starting to work on live-dvd. Wasn't it Colin who you talked with?
<scott-work> aye, astraljava 
<scott-work> we still need to clarify which seeds are going to (created and) used though
<astraljava> scott-work: But can't we start with one work flow first, and then add more later on?
<scott-work> astraljava: colin said it would be about a day's work to get it done and my impression is that it would be a bit of back and forth with him to make it so
<scott-work> astraljava: you are right
<scott-work> i was hoping to get a bare minimum of stuff going first, but you are correct that it really is most likely unecessary
<astraljava> scott-work: Ok. I'll ping him then to see when we could do that.
<scott-work> astraljava:  previously he had mentioned that we need to get seed "blocks" to him, basically a flow chart of what we expect to use
<astraljava> scott-work: Ok. Well let's see what comes out of the initial discussion.
<scott-work> sounds good :)
<scott-work> oh, colin also said he would be unavailable for a few weeks directly after january, so i am very glad that you are progressing this now :)
<astraljava> I noticed that, and it is why I took it under construction first.
<astraljava> scott-work: < cjwatson > astraljava: do you have a clear specification of how you want the resulting image to behave in terms of what  should be available in a live session and what should be available after installation?
<astraljava> scott-work: How should I answer to this question?
<holstein> falktx is in the house!
<astraljava> Not in mine he isn't!
<holstein> lol
<holstein> astraljava: i think its going to fit on a DVD anyways, how about just installing most everything?
<holstein> as far as default applications
<holstein> i dont think theres a way to please everyone here
<holstein> astraljava: OH... wasnt there a taskselect kind of thing in the GUI?
<astraljava> holstein: I'm thinking the same, we should try to make the live session look as exactly the same as the installed product as possible, right?
<holstein> from edubuntu?
<astraljava> Yeah.
<holstein> astraljava: i would like it to look and feel the same
<holstein> astraljava: with the lowlatency kernel and all
<astraljava> Yep. But should we somehow indicate which apps come with which work flow selecion?
<holstein> astraljava: that would be nice
<holstein> but its never been like that
<holstein> i say, thats a great goal, but dont hold up anything for it
<holstein> its always been a curses thing with no notes
<astraljava> Right, maybe we just have a list of apps coming from work flow selection on the website somewherE?
<astraljava> s/E/e/
<kubotu> astraljava meant: "Right, maybe we just have a list of apps coming from work flow selection on the website somewhere?"
<holstein> astraljava: i like that... and i think that list exists, and can be edited as needed
<holstein> rather than putting something giant in the UI
<astraljava> Yeah, sounds more feasible.
<scott-work> astraljava: i would suggest looking at how xubuntu does the livedvd thing, you can find code in xubuntu-default-settings in /casper
<scott-work> i think it will have information that can help us understand the scope
<astraljava> scott-work: Sure.
<scott-work> and i'm not above demonstrating my ignornace and asking cjwatson to explain his questions more :P
<scott-work> oops, that wasn't it
<scott-work> maybe live-cd in seeds then, checking
<scott-work> astraljava: ship-live seed:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.precise/view/head:/ship-live
<astraljava> He did elaborate, in fact, and said it would be good to have a list of apps which are to be included in the installed system, as some things are not needed that you have in live session (for example, the installer).
<scott-work> doh!  astraljava and live:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.precise/view/head:/live
<astraljava> scott-work: Ok, I believe I can work it out from all of these example seeds.
<scott-work> astraljava: outstanding, thank you very much :)
<astraljava> scott-work: No need to thank me. :) Thank you for the information!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-01-17
<navsen> hello?
<stochastic> hi
<stochastic> how are you navsen 
<navsen> good
<navsen> I was just wondering how the project was going and if there are any plans to participate in google summer of code?
<navsen> ok, well I gotta go.
<stochastic> ScottL, ^^  You'd be the one to organize this if it's something we can tap into.
<astraljava> We're doing very little ground-breaking stuff, I think vanilla would be a better place for that, or some of the upstream projects.
<knome> thinking pretty much the same for xubuntu
<knome> i'm not sure who would have all the time for mentoring
<astraljava> I mean, what is there to code, when you're practically doing integration?
<knome> and if somebody did, that probably took all of his work hours away
<knome> well, there is bits here and there ;)
<astraljava> That is not to say, if someone found something really cool and interesting, and wanted to work on it, that I would oppose of it. Not at all, I could even find time to mentor, but I have no idea what that would be.
<astraljava> Of course, but anything that lasted throughout the summer?
<knome> mind you, we're implementing a menu editor completely from scratch this cycle ;]
<astraljava> Well, that could be something worth pondering about.
<knome> yeah, too bad one of my friends already wrote it :)
<astraljava> But we'd be stealing that from you guys anyway. ;)
<knome> hehe
<astraljava> Ahh...
<knome> no, feel free to use that
<knome> well, it's not a full-fledged menu editor
<knome> so i lied a bit
<knome> but you can (un)hide items and add "bookmarks" to the menu
<astraljava> Ok.
<astraljava> Well, of course we'd feel free to use it. It _is_ free software, right? :D
<knome> let me think
<knome> ;)
<astraljava> *frown*
<knome> i suppose
<knome> :P
<scott-work> astraljava: can i put you down as the responsible person for some livedvd work items in the blueprint?
<astraljava> scott-work: Yes, all, if you want.
<scott-work> astraljava: just the first two are what i'm thinking:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-ubuntustudio-livedvd
<scott-work> astraljava: well, there are others for ubiquity and others as well, i was hoping to distribute the load
<astraljava> scott-work: Of course, and since I now have the time, I will try to unload you (as dirty as it sounds) as much as possible.
<scott-work> lols
<scott-work> astraljava: would you edit the work items as see fit to assign yourself and also make the ones you are currently working on as 'INPROGRESS"?
<scott-work> my main concern right now is to update the work items so that the number of TODO items decreases
<scott-work> i don't want to lie, of course, just accurately reflect reality, at least as reasonably close as possible
<scott-work> astraljava: i had already suggested to falktx that he try his hand at the ubiquity patch portion
<scott-work> but that requires us to make some decisions very soon about work flows
<scott-work> astraljava: BUT, i don't think we _need_ to reconcile the ubiquity issue right now
<scott-work> i would mainly like to focus on getting the live-dvd task resolved first, and i think working through ubiquity might retard that progress
<astraljava> scott-work: Yes of course, I'm sorry I've been a tad lousy with the stuff from the project management point of view.
<scott-work> and since cjwatson is going to be unavailable soon i think live-dvd is the priority
<astraljava> Yep, that's my reasoning too.
<scott-work> astraljava: oh no, no.  not you, but me?  aye, i have been lax lately :/
<scott-work> but i'm getting back into the routine again :)
<astraljava> I think we all need to participate, and you just can't handle it all.
<scott-work> now, if i can just get an answer about REVU and when it might be up, then we can start the lowlatency kernel push in earnest :-D
<falktx> revu is being deprecated afaik
<falktx> it never really worked
<falktx> and now ubuntu has the software-center app-portal thing
<astraljava> falktx: True, but it is still _supposed_ to be there, until the two projects agree on using mentors.d.o, for instance.
<falktx> yeah
<falktx> just that I gave up on that a long time ago
<scott-work> astraljava: when you talked with cjwatson the other day about live-dvd, which channel did you do it in?  i hope to learn some more about it by reading the logs
<astraljava> scott-work: On #ubuntu-devel.
<scott-work> thank you
<astraljava> scott-work: And you mentioned REVU again on #xubuntu-devel, which I'm not sure was the correct channel.
<astraljava> scott-work: I notified of this, and the fact that I already asked about REVU on #-motu a while ago. You need to pay attention, sir! :D
<scott-work> astraljava: heheh, thanks :P
<scott-work> it looks like REVU is still down :(   i want to get the -lowlatency kernel into it :|
<astraljava> scott-work: I guess you could look into utilizing mentors.debian.org for that.
<astraljava> scott-work: Or upload to some other public place, and notify necessary people of its whereabouts. Luke springs to mind.
<scott-work> astraljava: the later is what i was thinking as well, abogani already has it in his ppa
<astraljava> scott-work: Yeah, but they will want to see the other bits and pieces, on top of the binary package.
<astraljava> scott-work: That bzr branch Laney suggested isn't a bad idea, either.
<scott-work> astraljava: but the source is there, right?
<scott-work> in ppa i meant
<scott-work> astraljava: so maybe we create a bzr branch under the -dev team?
<astraljava> scott-work: If you dget the *.dsc from a PPA, it doesn't give you the debian/, does it?
<astraljava> scott-work: Yes, that would be my suggestion.
<scott-work> astraljava: not sure about the *.dsc/PPA/debian/ bit... i have always grabbed the source, removed '~ppa*', and then ran debuild 
<scott-work> astraljava: i have final changes to seeds for theme-ui update and then i'll move onto the lowlatency kernel then
<astraljava> scott-work: Yep. That's why the bzr branch would be best.
<scott-work> TheMuso: do you have any input on the fact that REVU doesn't seem to be available, placing the lowlatency kernel into one of our BZR branches for review by you and another MOTU?
<astraljava> Giving upload rights to the kernel team would guarantee the best possible cooperation.
<scott-work> astraljava: good point!  do we have a kernel team?  :grin
 * scott-work thinks that he's suppossed to create one per the blueprint and hasn't done it yet
<astraljava> scott-work: We don't, but the Ubuntu project does, and they will want to work with you (okay, us|US).
<scott-work> astraljava: i'm not sure the kernel team does want to work with us|US
<scott-work> that wasn't meant to be deragatory or mean
<scott-work> but i think the kernel team has been very clear that the lowlatency kernel will be a community maintained kernel and they will not support it
<scott-work> and they (apw, leann, steve c.) seemed quite okay with us making it as long as we base off of the ubuntu kernel and maintain security updates
<astraljava> scott-work: Fine, I don't really mind. But still, having it publicly shared would make it easier to maintain, community or not.
<scott-work> astraljava: oh, i should have pointed out as well that abogani already has a git repo set up for it as well
<astraljava> scott-work: That's good, too. But having it under the studio-dev, for instance, would make it much more efficient, privilege-management-wise, for instance. But yeah, we probably have to think about it more.
<scott-work> good point
<scott-work> i like the idea of putting it under a -dev bzr branch myself, not sure i can justify that desire though
<astraljava> I do understand that it's Alessio who's going to work with it the most, so we will have to respect his opinions about it the most.
<astraljava> But, if it is, by definition, community-maintained, others would have to have access to it as well. But there should be certain limitations to 'others', it's a kernel after all, FCOL! :D
<scott-work> hehe, good points, again
<scott-work> my understanding (limited and inferred) from the uds session was that if alessio maintains the code in git, it can be rebased on new/updated kernel fairly easily due to some automation
<scott-work> this apparently applies to security updates as well
<astraljava> Yeah. And I do understand that kernel is exclusively developed and maintained in git, and that is in strong favor of keeping it in git in the future. git is fairly easily managed, privileges-wise, though, so we shouldn't have problems there.
<scott-work> progress looks much better after updating the blueprint work items :)   http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-ubuntu-studio.html
<scott-work> thank you for helping with that astraljava 
<ailo> scott-work, Read that each distro must decide for themselves if they will be LTS or not. Xubuntu is named as being one. Does UbuntuStudio need to sign up for that as well?
<scott-work> ailo: yes we do, i had forgotten about that
<scott-work> ailo: is this something you would like to head up?
<scott-work> i would really appreciate it
<scott-work> although i think astraljava and i talked about this we considered discussing it at this week's meeting (yes, we REALLY will have one)
<scott-work> so maybe a first step is to send an email to the -dev list noting that we need to apply, asking for opinions on what time durations (old LTS is 3 years, new LTS is five years - although we can choose what we want), and then mention discussion will occur in the meeting
<astraljava> ...which reminds me to check up on the agenda.
<scott-work> this is the email about the LTS approval for other derivatives:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2012-January/000922.html
<scott-work> astraljava: i'm not too worried about populating the agenda with unnecessary items if you are not as well
<scott-work> i wouldn't mind keeping it short and sweet...maybe the LTS items and then an update on where we stand for 12.04
<scott-work> unless you think we need to have more and i'm agreeable to that as well, of course ;)
<astraljava> scott-work: Define unnecessary. :)
<scott-work> uhhhh, anything we don't need?  :P
<scott-work> hmmmmm, good question, actually
<scott-work> i would rather have a nice short, but effective meeting, rather that address a bunch of topics, for which we aren't prepared, because we are trying to emulate another team's meeting agenda or style
<scott-work> i suppose that is really what i meant
<scott-work> although i am not intending to be deragatory about any other teams or their agendas
<astraljava> Satisfactory? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2012January22
<scott-work> hehe, yeah, that's pretty lean
<scott-work> thanks for updating that, to be honest i had completely forgotten about some of the items under "old business"
<scott-work> astraljava: are you making any progress so far on the live-dvd?
<scott-work> i hadn't actually had a chance to read or digest what cjwatson told you in the irc logs
<scott-work> astraljava: hmmm, i was hoping cjwatson would have given more explanation
<scott-work> i'm confused actually
<scott-work> other than not including that installer, what would we not want available on the live dvd?  maybe i need to reread the irc log
<scott-work> s/that installer/the installer
<scott-work> i also realize that we probably will need a new pacakge:   'ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntustudio'
<astraljava> I don't know, really. I haven't had much time today, in fact, to spend on that.
<astraljava> Uhh... yeah. :-/
<astraljava> Who's got artistic skills in here?
 * astraljava sent a meeting reminder on u-s-devel@
<scott-work> astraljava: you rock!
 * astraljava bows
<scott-work> interesting, a "professional DAW for linxu"  http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/01/bitwig-professional-music-creation.html
<falktx> lol, "professional"
<TheMuso> scott-work: I know nothing about revu not being available, and a kernel tree in a bzr branch is only going to cause much pain.
<len> Just wondering. Is there any web page that has the work flows we want and the applications and usage that goes with them?
<astraljava> len: You're probably looking for this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows
<astraljava> len: Also of considerable source of information, this is a good point to start from: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-precise-flavor-ubuntu-studio
<ScottL> TheMuso, we weren't going to host the code necessarily in the bzr branch, it was just to get the code reviewed
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-01-18
<len> Ok Astraljava, That is useful... I take it then that there are 4 work flows or four sections of work flows?
<len> For example in the audio section There are over 20 ways of using things... seems like a lot of metas to me.
<len> May be just one that covers it all. Then a menu that shows whats needed for each?
<astraljava> len: My understanding is that all the different work flows are just arguments for having some applications installed through various tasks in the installer.
<len> astraljava: Ok, so four sets of packages, lots of uses within each install.
<len> I'm thinking I need to test more of that stuff... Like can the job actually be done with only the software provided.
<len> This would mean only installing one of the four sets and trying out each task...
<astraljava> len: Would be good if you could test the thought behind the task, yes.
<len> astraljava: Waiting for all the software to be included. Lots of stuff missing still.
<astraljava> Yep. I'm turning in, it's close to 3 am. here. Thanks for testing the stuff! Have a good night!
<ScottL> did an interesting experiment tonight to check a few things for updating the seeds
<ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox/#package_size_testing
<ScottL> mainly i wanted to compare the installation impact of a few different packages (file managers, video editors, disc burners)
<ScottL> for example, brasero appears to be a very, very small installation compared to k3b
<ScottL> and since brasero is basically installed when nautilus is installed we would actually get brasero "for free"
<len> ScottL: so do we have a list of packages yet? I'm thinking in terms of file mangers and editors etc. 
<len> With where Gnome is going (3ish) is nautilus going to become incompatible with what we are doing ?
<len> I'm thinking one of the big things with unity is this whole full screen everything and hearing gnome 3 is going to be similar. will the changes in the libs force some of the gnome applications to think that way too?
<ailo> gnome3 is basically the same as gnome2, except it has a different panel
<ailo> And some new stuff
<len> Ok, how is different?
<ailo> The panel is replaced by what is called gnome-shell
<ailo> GTK has been updated
<ailo> That's about it
<ailo> In short
<ailo> Unity resembles Gnome3, but uses a global menu. Unity is based on Gnome
<ailo> Unity uses Compiz, while Gnome3 uses Mutter
<ailo> Of no relevance to XFCE though
<len> No body likes changing I remember wondering why anyone would need anything more than fvwm too.
<ailo> I use Gnome3 and I'm pretty happy about it. 
<ailo> Very simple and fast
<len> I haven't tried that.... but I have tried unity (12.04 alpha) and it seemed to think nobody could use more than one app at a time.
<len> Is there a flavour of ubuntu using G3?
<ailo> I don't agree on the notion that Unity or Gnome3 are designed for one application in a time
<len> Or is there a meta I could try?
<ailo> If you have Ubuntu 11.10 or later installed, just install gnome-shell.
<len> G3 I don't know, but unity seems to expect full screen everything.
<ailo> Why do you say that?
<len> I will try gnome-shell on top of a 12.04 ... anything I have tried with unity open fullscreen.
<ailo> The windows work just as before. There has been no change there
<ailo> Gnome3 does not have all three window control buttons visible by default though
<len> I had ubuntu desktop on my netbook and when I upgraded to 11.10 I couldn't get the windows not to open full screen... ended up starting over with xubuntu.
<ailo> As far as I know, there's no fullscreen mode for normal application
<ailo> You mean maximized, right?
<len> The ubuntu desktop alpha 12.04 I tried was flakey... but so was US at the time. Yeah maximised.
<len> It uses all my screen :-P
<ailo> On Unity, all of the apps have a minimize button
<ailo> And unmaximize
<ailo> On Gnome3 those do not appear by default, but if you get into how Gnome3 works, you'll see why you might not need them
<ailo> You can use Gnome3 the old way, or in a new way
<len> Maybe they have fixed it, but it is a pain to have to unmaximise things every time I start them, it would be nice if they started the same as I left them.
<ailo> That is how I remember it to be
<ailo> I don't use Unity myself though. Only Gnome3
<ailo> Gnome3 still has the classic desktop as well, which looks like gnome2
<len> My Yf would probably like unity though as she maxs everything. So I can't say unity is bad... just not for me. They may be right that for most people that is the way to go.
<ailo> I don't agree on many of the things you say about Unity. It is just like gnome2, but with a different panel
<ailo> And with additional functionality
<ailo> I think there has been a false idea about what it is from the start
<len> I may have picked poor times to try it out.
<ailo> My biggest concern was how stable Unity and Gnome3 would be, since they require graphic card acceleration in default mode. And just generally, how buggy they would be
<ailo> 12.04 seems to be ok for me
<len> I was quite frustrated with it when I tried to use it for a week or so. I will keep trying it out though. It is nice having spare drives to run stuff on. I have gotten used to installing something different just to try.
<ailo> I think the idea about both Unity and Gnome3 is that they would work on any screen device
<ailo> Desktop/netbook/smartphone/TV
<ailo> But so far, the old functionality is still there for desktops
<len> It will be interesting to see what apps we get for US anyway...
<len> I have to go for a bit.
<astraljava> vaev: Would you mind joining #ubuntu-studio-dev
<astraljava> sorry
<astraljava> #ubuntu-studio-devel channel
<astraljava> That's where the majority of the development happens.
<astraljava> Crap.
 * astraljava is really, really stupid today. Much more than normally.
<vaev> hello. I was asked to come here, interested in participating
 * astraljava wishes vaev warmly welcome
<vaev> I'm not an expert in packaging, but feel like I can contribute in bug squashing, testing and xfce issues since that's the DE I've used for a long time
<astraljava> jussi: From your email on May 8th, 2010, you proposed to move the channels to the naming convention of #ubuntu-studio*, but apparently it still hasn't realized. Why is that? (besides the fact that you're a lazy b***ard)
<astraljava> vaev: Ahh... sorry, only Scott and Luke are admins of that team. They'll get around to your membership at some point.
<scott-work> astraljava: do you mind if i query cjwatson for additional information about the live-dvd?
<astraljava> scott-work: Not by any means. 
<scott-work> i was thinking about this while i was getting up and ready for work this morning
<scott-work> it seems that colin would expect we would not want some functionality available under a live-dvd use case
<scott-work> and i can't fanthom what he might be thinking
<scott-work> is he worried that we might not want to actually record music, ala jack/ardour?
<scott-work> colin _is_ a very smart person, is he thinking of something we aren't?
 * scott-work usually finds that this is the case when interacting with such persons as colin or persia
<astraljava> scott-work: You can't say that. Either it's 'Colin and Emmet', or 'cjwatson and persia'. :D
<scott-work> hehehe, true, true!
<knome> yes!
<knome> damn you
<knome> :)
<astraljava> It's the precise dev cycle, try to act accordingly, dangit!
<knome> X)
<scott-work> REVU is back up!  yay :)
<astraljava> Nice.
<scott-work> i'm tempted to leave work, RIGHT NOW, to go home and get the kernel upload :P
 * astraljava sends evil thought-waves towards northern Texas
<scott-work> now i also wish i had an ssh tunnel set up to my computer at home :(
<scott-work> lol astraljava 
<scott-work> astraljava: have you read any of my conversation with cjwatson in #ubuntu-devel?
<astraljava> scott-work: Not yet, but I will. On another note, do we have anything important for today's QA meeting?
<scott-work> astraljava: we have a QA meeting today?  i can't think of anything directly
<scott-work> wrt seeds, i think the confusion is a matter of perspective
<astraljava> scott-work: I just happened to stumble upon said meeting last week, and they had our derivate mentioned. So I gave a short and meaningless excuse for our existence, and promised to pay more attention in the future. :)
<scott-work> i had been thinking of what should be excluded from the installed system, but rather we should think of the live environment first and then consider what should be excluded from _it_ to install onto the computer
<scott-work> astraljava: lol...good job, man!
<astraljava> scott-work: I agree on that. So we talk about it in the meeting, yes? Shall I add it on the agenda?
<scott-work> astraljava: you mean the live-dvd issue for the ubuntu studio contributor meeting?
<astraljava> scott-work: I mean the discussion about what we include in the live session, and how it (if in any meaningful way) differs from the installed product.
<scott-work> astraljava: colin's talking about not including boot loader, ubiquity, and language packs....as these all seem very, very practically considerations i'm not sure we need to discuss it in the meeting
<scott-work> but let's wait until colin responds back to my last question (do you need more from me?) before we make a final decision
<astraljava> scott-work: ACK
<scott-work_> astraljava: i think i satisfied cjwaton :)
<astraljava> Oh ok, nice.
<jussi> astraljava: its the latter... sadly :P
<astraljava> Anyone surprised, please raise a hand now.
<astraljava> ...
<astraljava> ...
<astraljava> ...
 * jussi slaps astraljava 
<astraljava> Hey! You have your target practice at home now!
<jussi> ahh shaddup, Im tired
<astraljava> Not from me you aren't. We haven't seen in so many days now.
<astraljava> of me*
<jussi> astraljava: yeah, get your lazy butt over here :P
<astraljava> Not inclined to cycle 20 miles in that weather, thanks. Maybe next week. *grin*
<holstein> interesting wallpaper pack on the ML
<holstein> i think the one with the guitar cable is not awful
<holstein> might look nice and minimal with XFCE
<holstein> i think i like the other ones that were submited more though
<scott-work_> is it a new email on the ML?
<astraljava> scott-work_: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2012-January/003807.html
<scott-work> wrt wallpapers; i just want a very simplistic background that can be used in a unified manner across the plymouth theme, the lightdm background, and the desktop wallpaper
<scott-work> i have tried pulling involvement from the ML and from even the -artwork IRC channel, ML, and specific individuals with-artwork without much success
<scott-work> i need to talk to dick macinnis again about the blueprint and spec i made and see if he can do something like it
<scott-work> (macinnis already made some very nice wallpapers but not what i really had in mind)
<scott-work> and i'll try to touch an artist type person who was working with cory for a short time called 'izo'
<scott-work> but i freaking want THIS
<scott-work> i might even set aside some money just to pay for it
<astraljava> I vaguely recall that nick (or something like that), but didn't he go to Japan in a hurry? Is he available again?
<scott-work> astraljava: no, that was....hmmmm, dont' remember
<scott-work> but not the same person
<astraljava> Oh ok.
<scott-work> izo is a east bloc looking dude with a long goatee and kinda scary
<scott-work> what's that new video editor coming out?  damn, i met the dudes and talked with them on two different morning during breakfast at uds :(
<scott-work> novacut...he left working with cory to do the novacut icon/logo
<scott-work> hold on....
<scott-work> AHA!  http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/novacut/novacut-pro-video-editor/posts/101241
<scott-work> first picture is izo
<scott-work> okay, he looks more hispanic to me now
<astraljava> Little bit scary nonetheless. :)
<scott-work> i can be scary looking, but this guy looks bigger and would actually make me very, very careful if i met him in a dark alley
<scott-work> ;)
<astraljava> Agreed. :)
<scott-work> oh, the link i sent earlier this morning (or was it last night) about the package sizes has me thinking quite a bit
<scott-work> i might even set up a kde install just to verify a few thing and gather some more information about some gnome package sizes
<scott-work> BUT it certainly reinforced that i'm probably going to go with brasero as our image burner for two reasons:
<scott-work> 1. k3b (which many people suggested) is hella big install!
<scott-work> 2. we've used braser for years and i dont' really recall any vocal complaints
<astraljava> Did we even have anything for oneiric?
<scott-work> brasero i believe
<scott-work> what we were missing was text editor and maybe something else fairly minor
<astraljava> It's not in the desktop file, at least.
<scott-work> oneiric is embarassing actually
<astraljava> It's in the video file!
<scott-work> astraljava: does the agenda include the LTS request?  i forget
<astraljava> WHY?!
<astraljava> Oh, have to check.
<scott-work> why is oneiric embarrasing?  it's unfinished and extremely rough
<astraljava> No, I mean why is brasero in the video file of the seeds?!
<astraljava> grr... wiki's being its own self again...
<astraljava> scott-work: Yeah, the proposal is on the agenda.
<scott-work> astraljava: thanks
<scott-work> astraljava: brasero in video is probably my fault
<scott-work> i've gotten a better understanding of what ubuntu studio should be, at least on a more fundamental level
<astraljava> I don't think oneiric was embarrassing. It was a test drive.
<astraljava> Quite successful for such.
<scott-work> well, i guess so ;)
<astraljava> It was the first attempt for switching over to XFCE, mind you.
<scott-work> but i realize that there are certain applications that should be included in desktop simply for the desktop experience, like text editor and image burner :P
<astraljava> And considering the manpower that we had for that cycle... I'm actually quite amazed we had something out in the first place.
<scott-work> and not rely on, say, the video seed
<scott-work> eh, so much of that is done by others and will continue on unless something breaks without practically any input from this team
<astraljava> scott-work: Yeah, but then again, this isn't your regular desktop distribution.
<astraljava> I'd say we would need more tasks, so that user could decide at install-time whether to make it more desktop-ish.
<scott-work> true, but editing text or burning the image IS part of the desktop usage, not really on a particular seed, work flow, or even task
<scott-work> hmmmm, that's an interesting idea
<astraljava> After all, it's a DVD, so we can include more stuff. As long as the .iso doesn't become a full-fledged 4.7GB-er
<scott-work> later on, maybe weeks or a month, i would like to poke cjwatson again and ask if there is a better way to make tasks with creating a seed for each one
<astraljava> It's true, a very simple editor could be included by default. Like leafpad.
<scott-work> ooooooo...."without", not "with creating a seed for each one"
<astraljava> But no office suite. Not even Abiword.
<scott-work> i like gedit really, it's good for code as well
<astraljava> True.
<scott-work> leafpad and mousepad are good, not to detract from that, but i do like the code highlighting (especially because i'm such a code noob and i need all the help i can get)
<astraljava> Yeah, I just tested, no highlighting at all.
<astraljava> Ok, gedit it could be.
<scott-work> i am leaving work slightly early today and i will focus on getting two things done tonight:  pushing the kernel to REVU and updating the seeds for theme-ui change and filing bug for sponsors
<astraljava> scott-work: Good idea. I think I'm going to try and get some sleep soon, and wake up at 5 am. for the Ducks' game. I'll then start to work on the seeds, both for live-dvd and desktop.
<scott-work> cool :)  thank you metric tonnes, astraljava 
<vaev> okay let's see.. gonna install current and see what has it eaten
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-01-19
<ScottL> hi falktx , just reminding you about the ubiquity patch again
<ScottL> it looks like cjwatson is moving forward with setting ubuntu studio up as a live-dvd now
<falktx> seems like everyone needs my help...
<ScottL> who else?
<falktx> users and some devs
<falktx> ScottL: what exactly is needed?
<ScottL> falktx, edubuntu has a patch for ubiquity that allows basically a GUI tasksel during installation
<ScottL> we would like to modify it to work with ubuntu studio
<ScottL> going upstairs for a bit, should log on there as well
<falktx> ScottL: can we postpone this after friday? I need to finish something on 20th
<ScottL> falktx, absolutely :)
<falktx> thanks
<astraljava> ScottL: I can take care of the ubiquity part of the live-dvd. Sorry for being a bit vague about it. I meant to include that as part of my live-dvd tasks.
<astraljava> falk doesn't seem to be online now, but I'll mention this to him when he is.
<ScottL> astraljava, oh yeah, i'm not worried about who does it as long as it's getting done :)
<ScottL> by the way, i dput'd the lowlatency kernel to REVU, but i haven't gotten an email and can't see it listed yet :/
<astraljava> ScottL: Yep. Just thought I'd mention it, as he seemed to indicate being rather busy at the moment.
<astraljava> ScottL: It might take a while. It's a slow service.
<ScottL> and i made all bzr pushes and filed a bug for theme-ui changes
<ScottL> micahg, ^^^
<ScottL> and i subscribed sponsors as well
<ScottL> damn, i'm tired and not even seeing straight now
<astraljava> Heheh. Go get some well-deserved sleep. :)
<ScottL> i'm going to bed now, talk to you tomorrow
<astraljava> Good job!
<micahg> ScottL: will upload when I have a chance (not sure if it'll happen before the weekend)
<ailo> scott-work: Did you keep Audacity in the seeds btw?
<scott-work> ailo: i haven't really reworked the audio/video/graphic seeds at this point
<scott-work> ailo: but i shall!  (both rework them and add audacity)
<scott-work> right now i just wanted to get the push for the theme-ui changes
<scott-work> and get the live-dvd pushed to cjwatson
<scott-work> i talked to cjwatson and he said that adding additional seeds for new work flows will be easy enough later on
<scott-work> so i wanted to get the theme-ui changes so we can get feedback from A2
<scott-work> and the live dvd working for A2 as well
<scott-work> ailo: do you feel up to doing some development work on a very specific item?  you'll be famous!
<ailo> scott-work: I don't have a lot of time on my hands, but if it's not too time demanding.. What do you need?
<scott-work> ailo: we still need somebody to really focus on getting gcdmaster ported to gtk3 or qt or something else
<scott-work> well, i say that because i think astraljava is going to work on the ubiquity patch currently
<ailo> About Audacity, I read that it is the 11th most downloaded software at SourceForge, and is perhaps only surpassed by VLC as the most popular FOSS software in the world. 
<ailo> I mean, audio related
<ailo> But, the 11th most downloaded out of all the software projects at sourceforge
<scott-work> ailo: stochastic and i talked quite a bit weeks ago and i need to make some fairly significant changes in the audio seeds, one of them will defintely be including audacity, i promise
 * scott-work also needs to give significant thought to the video and graphic seeds and make sweeping changes in those as well
<scott-work> astraljava: sorry, my comment was unclear eariler
<scott-work> astraljava: are you also still doing the gcdmaster port as well as the ubiquity patch?
<scott-work> astraljava:  it seemed that you were going to focus on the ubiquity patch immediately, if so i would like to see if someone else can get gcdmaster during the same time
<scott-work> astraljava: and if you are handling the ubiquity (which is very hard to type quickly for me) patch, then i will let falktx know that he doesn't need to do it
<ailo> scott-work: Isn't it better just to focus on another cd mastering app? This one hasn't been updated since 2005 or something
<astraljava> scott-work: If someone wants to do it, it's fine by me, but since there just hasn't been that many volunteers, it's on my list thus far.
<ailo> I'm not really qualified to do c++ coding, if that is what it takes to port it. Or, it would take me too much time.
<scott-work> astraljava: i just worry about workign too many things in a linear fashion, i fear we might run out of time and if we have the capacity then it would be nice to have multiple people focusing on individual items right now
<astraljava> scott-work: Yes of course, but like I said, there just hasn't been that many volunteers. So I'll keep it on my TODO as long as someone else takes it, or I finish it. :)
<scott-work> astraljava: i don't know, it might only take you one or two days to suss out the ubiquity patch and then you are on to the next item
<scott-work> astraljava: we're you also looking at packaging slomovideo?  i saw a bug report last night about that, but it was late and i was looking for something else anyways and didn't look too close
<astraljava> scott-work: The fastest way to get that wrapped up is talk to quadrispro. He'll have it ready in 5 min... scratch that, three minutes. :)
<scott-work> lol, that is true
<scott-work> i need to research the mailing list about other packages that shnatsel asked about so i can file the RFP for all of them at once
<scott-work> astraljava: to be forthcoming, this whole situation (well, not the _whole_ thing but a lot of what effects us now) with gcdmaster and such is my fault
<scott-work> simply because i haven't stayed on top of it so it got done in a timely fashion for this cycle
<scott-work> not we're doing the same "hurry up, we're 1/2 way through the cycle" dance :(
<scott-work> same thing for the new packages
<astraljava> Nah, it's a team effort. And I really don't recall we ever really setting porting the gcdmaster as a release goal.
<scott-work> i doubt we will get the new packages into ubuntu in time to include them in 12.04 (although we can backport and include in 12.04.1)
<scott-work> and i have serious worries about gcdmaster now for the same reason
<ailo> Why is gcdmaster so important?
<ailo> I haven't followed all your discussions, so forgive me for that
<astraljava> ailo: It's supposedly the only capable tool of creating professional-level cds in FOSS.
<ailo> Wow
<astraljava> ailo: scott-work: I just checked-out cdrdao project, and turned it into a bzr tree. I'll look around a bit, and register a branch on LP later tonight.
<scott-work> astraljava: cool
<scott-work> ailo: my understanding is that it allows extreme manipulation of the TOC, etc for mastering CDs, including adding 2 sec spaces, etc
<ailo> scott-work, astraljava: So, what does it have that k3b doesn't? k3b at least supports adding silence between tracks. Seems like a very alive and well designed app to me
<ailo> At a first glance it seems to me that 3kb has everything gcdmaster does, as well as a good deal more
<ailo> It uses the same backend right?
<ailo> ..cdrdao
<astraljava> Well, I dunno, I've never even used it before. Send an email to the mailing list, if you want to wrestle some arms with the guys in the know. :D
<ailo> scott-work, astraljava: I think just by using them side by side on an older Ubuntu system should reveal some facts
<ailo> I have Lucid, so I can do that
<ailo> 3kb looks solid to me though
<ailo> k3b*
<astraljava> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+junk/gcdmaster-gtk3-port
<falktx> btw, how is US handling gtk2/3 themes now?
<falktx> do we use some engine that supports both toolkits?
<astraljava> falktx: We use whatever Xubuntu uses. If you wanna do the tech talk, I suggest heading off to #xubuntu-devel.
<falktx> I'm just curious
<falktx> there are only a few themes that handle gtk2/gtk3 at the same time
<falktx> afaik, xubuntu using xfce will only care about gtk2
<astraljava> falktx: I'm fairly sure that's a no. There's been talk of utilizing gtk3 themes. But like I said, I haven't participated in that area.
<falktx> I'll ask them then
<scott-work> falktx: ochosi had been making updates to their theme to handle gtk3 i believe
<falktx> yeah, cool
<len_> ailo: re gcdmaster/k3b. Adding 2sec gaps is easy actually. The harder part is taking a live performance with no breaks and adding track marks, or shortening the between song time while keeping that continuous always audio live album feel.
<falktx> afaik, audacity can be used to split 1 audio into several tracks
<len_> All this can  be non-destructively with gcdmaster. I am not at all sure that k3b can start track1 with a pregap long enough to hold a whole song... if at all. Can it add indexes? CD-TEXT? Can it add ISRC?
<len_> Can k3b take those tracks split by Audacity and run them together seamlessly with no break between them?
<falktx> k3b does support cd-text and pregaps
<falktx> and no-gaps between tracks obviously
<falktx> oh, and overburn too, which I use quite often
<falktx> I don't know what ISRC is though
<len_> It is mandatory for air play.
<len_> It is hard to describe all the things that cdmaster does. Using audacity to create a bunch more files when cdmaster works with the master file seems like extra effort. An extra unnecessary bunch of work. I will take another look at k3b... but last time I looked it was one of those burner that takes a bunch of tracks and stuffs them on a CD. CDMaster allows joining two audio files together while visually seeing that the samples are at zero crossing f
<len_> or no click without actually editing the sound file itself.
<len_> It allows one to hear the whole CD as it will be when burned. 
<len_> A professional CD is the one that takes care of all the tiny things that most people don't think of. GCDMaster gives a master copy that could be printed for distribution. If US is trying to be something that can take sound in, mix it master the tracks... do the whole thing, in other words why stop at the last step?
<astraljava> scott-work-afk: You sure it's _micro_seconds? That's a little... absurd. Who cares for such precision? No one's going to notice.
<len_> For doing straight from studio to cd with a gap between each track, probably one could get away without gcdmaster (or something similar), but for live recordings thats different.
<scott-work> good catch astraljava !
<astraljava> :) 
<holstein> ailo: ping
<holstein> you around later?
<holstein> i would like to take a few hours (not all at once) with you
<holstein> and test some kernels again
<holstein> i just want to make sure im not forgetting anything
<len_> falktx: Just took another look at k3b. It is by far one of the better toc editors I have seen...
<holstein> len_: i forget how it failed for me
<holstein> have you actually tried it?... it seemed like it should and failed
<holstein> this was a year ago i bet
<len_> but, it is not as good as GCDMaster. K3b does allow editing the toc in all the right ways just as if you were editing the file by hand but easier.
<scott-work> well at least it sounds like we have a path to edit the TOC even if k3b does pose a larger installation footprint
<scott-work> but if k3b is used to master cds _and_ as an image burner, then this is mitigated slightly
<len_> However, it does not let you hear the transition from song to song without burning a copy, or creating a pre-edited cdlength file before hand with another app. It does not let you visually see the file transition without using another app to pre-edit a cdlength file first. It would be possible to use k3b, but harder and require more disk space (minor) and time (not so minor) and it would still take burning it to hear if your track starts were accura
<len_> te.
<scott-work> oh :(
<ailo> len_: Since you seem to be comfortable using cd mastering tools, I suggest you take a closer look at k3b. It can split tracks, which in my view is not something you actually require from a cd mastering tool. A cd mastering tool is to burn cd's, not edit audio files
<len_> I have used gcdmaster in the past... and just went down and tried taking a few wave and editing a toc with k3b. I'm not sure this is quite as good as it could be.
<ailo> From my point of view, a cd mastering tool should be chosen which is able to burn cd's professionally. And that is all. Additional features that involve audio editing does not seem important
<ailo> holstein: How come you want to test kernels?
<holstein> it was presented to me as a direct replacemnt, and i didnt find it that
<holstein> ailo: i would like to document, and get something scott-work can link to
<holstein> i just want to make sure i dont miss anything
<holstein> ailo: and i want to do it for 12.04, with the latest *-generic in there
<len_> We are not actually talking about editing audio files so much as accurately specing track starts and file transitions. The only way to do that is by hearing what your change sounds like. k3b does not offer that feature
<ailo> len_: If you make a master, you do the cutting in a DAW or whatever you use for mastering the music
<ailo> I understand it is a nice feature to have, but not essential
<ailo> holstein: What sort of tests were you thinking about? The ones we were doing before Oneiric?
<holstein> ailo: yup
<holstein> i check at the beginning of oneiric too
<ailo> holstein: The results will depend on your hardware, and can only serve as examples I guess
<holstein> ailo: i was going to try FW and USB and internal
<ailo> holstein: The best is if we can have multiple testers using different kinds of hardware. I have FW, internal and PCI
<holstein> i just want to help make or break the case
<holstein> i have no PCI though
<ailo> The case is already pretty clear, I think
<holstein> ailo: yeah, you would think
<ailo> But you want to have some numbers to show to people, right?
<holstein> but we are *not* going to get that kernel im afraid
<holstein> and i have some time today
<holstein> and i want "clear* #'s and pasted lines from JACK's window
<ailo> len_: What do you think? Is k3b not good enough for the job? 
<len_> ailo: Once you have used both for setting up a live concert to cd, not having a good toc editing tool becomes obvious real quick.
<len_> I would like something that will let me hear what I am about to burn.
<ailo> I've mastered a few records, but never paid much attention to the burning, since I've just edited the music before burning it
<holstein> i used 64studio, and GCD master was working there
<holstein> so far, i have avoided the process.. just making mastered tracks
<holstein> im going to buy nero for the blueray support
<ailo> The problem with gcd is that it hasn't been updated since 2005, and shouldn't this be maintained in the Debian repo instead of here?
<falktx> holstein: k3b will get blueray soon
<holstein> i need the CD thing
<falktx> not sure how blueray works...
<len_> K3b is better than any of the other ones I have looked at. It has a lot of good stuff. I would certainly use it over anything else if there was no gcdmaster.
<holstein> BR data can be made from the CLI, and i dont mind supporting nero
<holstein> i only want it for data
<holstein> can we even use k3b?
<holstein> what are the deps?
<falktx> kdelibs
<holstein> is it heavy on KDE?
<falktx> we just set some non-wanted kde packages to not install on the US dvd
<falktx> like done before, I think
<holstein> falktx: so, we an have it without a bunch of extras?
<falktx> if k3b gets into the seeds, kdenlive would be a nice option too
<holstein> im fine with includeing it
<falktx> holstein: yes, it's perfectly possible
<holstein> and i agree about kden
<holstein> scott-work: can we just go with this?
<holstein> then we get kden too
<holstein> GCD master is awesome, but it is dying
<holstein> as long as i can burn a TOC projet with k3b, then i say lets do it
<len_> I think because of the work to get gcdmaster back up to scratch, it isn't going to make it in time. K3b is certainly next best that I can find.
<ailo> Would seem likely that k3b will continue to get more features in time. I never considered the dependencies. Do we have any other KDE dependencies?
<len_> There needs to be a new project to replace gcdmaster with something more up to date. but that will not happen in time for 12.04.
<astraljava> Yes, and in the mean time, I will work on porting it to GTK3.
<holstein> astraljava: k3b?
<falktx> ailo: maybe 20-30Mb of dependencies
<astraljava> holstein: Obviously not. :D https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+junk/gcdmaster-gtk3-port
<astraljava> Point anyone interested that way. ^^
<holstein> astraljava: hey... i dont know what you guys mean half the time ;)
<ailo> falktx: Not more? That's not too bad. 
<len_> basero can come out too, though from what Csott
<falktx> ailo: yep, but I think it needs tweaks to make sure we don't get unneeded kde stuff
<astraljava> ailo: True, but consider them all in RAM, alone for that app, if nothing else needs them.
<holstein> sure... k3b can just bo our burner
<holstein> its nice
<len_> Scott said brasero doesn't add anything
<ailo> astraljava: I don't know that much about live CD's but to my understanding, applications themselves take the same amount of space in RAM, when they are used, and no space at all, when they are not used.
<ailo> I suspect what is additional in RAM for live CD's is the filesystem
<astraljava> ailo: Applications use the RAM they themselves need, plus the dynamically linked libraries, when used. Libraries will get swapped at some point, when the application that needed them is shut.
<ailo> astraljava: I can't believe there would be any problem anyhow. We're talking about fairly small amounts, and nowadays, 2-3GB is not enough to run a web browser
<astraljava> I understand that. But in the worst case scenario, if the machine ended up swapping because of that...
<astraljava> But obviously we don't know at this time whether the porting brings in additional GTK3 libraries.
<astraljava> I'm just saying we need to keep an open mind, and try to avoid adding stuff unnecessarily.
<falktx> astraljava: gtk3 libs should be on xubuntu/US by default, since base ubuntu stuff uses it
<astraljava> falktx: I mean are all of them loaded into memory already? We're not using a lot of GNOME apps.
<falktx> libs are only loaded once an app that uses it is started
<falktx> if we include kde stuff, kde libs will only be loaded once we start a kde app
<astraljava> But of course.
<astraljava> The point was, are there KDE apps?
<falktx> no, I don't think so
<ailo> I believe the kde libs take less than 5 MB in ram
<ailo> Not counting k3b itself
<astraljava> But falktx just mentioned it wants 20-30MB?
<ailo> That's the size of the packages, right?
<ailo> on cd
<astraljava> Oh ok. I thought we were talking about RAM.
<astraljava> But then, if those are libraries, then the real size is somewhat bigger.
<astraljava> Close to that, but slightly bigger.
<astraljava> .debs are gzipped, right?
<falktx> most of them
<scott-work> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntustudio/precise/daily-20120118.log
<falktx> new ones use lzma
<scott-work> that shows some kde packages but not much and i'm not actually sure they were really installed
<ailo> So, kde-runtime is already in
<ailo> ?
<scott-work> ailo: i didn't see it actually installed though
<scott-work> ailo: furthermore, there are things in there that probably shouldn't be, e.g. libreoffice-*
<scott-work> ailo: by "[12:12] <scott-work> ailo: i didn't see it actually installed though" i meant that i didn't see a package actually included on the disc (i.e. later down the log)
<scott-work> but also, see:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#package_size_testing
<scott-work> that documents k3b and kdenlive package requirements for an installation on an xubuntu 12.04 daily instal
<scott-work> isntall
<ailo> Would be good to find out how big those packages are. Most of them tiny, I would think
<scott-work> ailo: which packages?
<ailo> scott-work: The dependencies for k3b, and furthermore kdenlive
<ailo> Both share a few dependencies
<ailo> That said, k3b shares a few dependencies with gcdmaster as well
<scott-work> ailo: to add to this:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#package_size_testing
<scott-work> ailo: i was going to install k3b and then see what would be further required for kdenlive to find the delta
<scott-work> ailo: which should be the shared dependency size
<scott-work> i was hoping to do similar with a kde install against a few things as well
<ailo> scott-work: Yeah, duh. That was pretty elementary
<falktx> if we get kde stuff into the dvd, we'll need to add some default-settings to make kde follow the gtk and icon theme
<scott-work> falktx: if we add kde stuff, and i'm not saying that i'm onboard with this yet, can you help us make those changes?
<falktx> scott-work: what would you need?
<scott-work> falktx: what ever changes you mentioned about making "dke follow the gtk and icon theme"
<falktx> ah, sure, it's just a file
<falktx> ~/.kde/config/kdeglobals I think
<falktx> we just theme to Gtk2, and icons to <something-here>
<falktx> we first need to be sure if kde stuff gets in or not though
<scott-work> falktx: right, it is still a decision that needs to be considered and evaluated
<ailo> k3b, 75.2 MB of archives. Then the questions is how much additional space kdenlive would need. I would assume both together are at least 100 MB
<scott-work> astraljava: is cjwatson wanting you or us to create the live and live-dvd seeds in our bzr branch?
<ailo> Are you making a live CD, or live DVD?
<scott-work> ailo: check the installed size, not the downloaded size
<ailo> ok
<scott-work> ailo: it would be a live dvd, i really doubt we would be able to get down to cd size
<falktx> ailo: half of that is not needed
<falktx> --no-install-recommends helps there, not sure how to do it in seeds
<scott-work> falktx:  but can we exluce the half that is not needed wiht the seeds
<scott-work> oh, nevermind ;)
<falktx> note - k3b recommends 'dvd+rw-tools', which should become a US depends
<falktx> we can also add 'libk3b6-extracodecs' for mp3 support
<scott-work> falktx: i thought brasro did the same with dvd+rw-tools?
<falktx> brasero misses functinality
<scott-work> nautilus as well (pulling dvd+rw-tools)
<falktx> it may use the same base app for recording, but it doesn't have the options
<scott-work> falktx: sorry, i misunderstood what you were getting at...i thought you were complainging about k3b pulling that in, i was just saying so does brasero and nautilus, therefore we would have it anyways
<falktx> ok
<ailo> totem can be such a buggy piece of crap sometimes :P
<ailo> holstein: So, you want to write an informational page about the difference between -generic and -lowlatency for users, or what is your plan?
<holstein> ailo: no.. just for us
<holstein> for me and for scott-work to use if he wants
<holstein> if a kernel dev says "why do you need it?" i want him to be able to say, see this...
<ailo> holstein: It's just too bad our test is not the most professional, even though I think it counts. Especially if we have enough testers
<holstein> ailo: well, we can link it where ever
<holstein> maybe i start a new blog somewhere, just for this purpose
<holstein> one that other can add to or can be copied to where ever
<holstein> ailo: im going to select a machine here in a bit, and get on it
<holstein> unless i get distracted, im about 2 hours from doing some tests
<holstein> ailo: you think i should start with xubuntu daily?
<ailo> holstein: I suppose so. It would make sense for each tester to have the same exact kernel, and preferably the same build of the iso
<ailo> I can do some tests as well
<ailo> Can't find the pages I made back then...
<ailo> I found this on edubuntu's wiki https://wiki.edubuntu.org/generic_vs_lowlatency_testing
<holstein> ailo: i want the most recent generic
<holstein> and whatever abogani is hosting for lowlatency
<holstein> not a mainline kernel.. 
<holstein> i mean, i dont think i want a mainline... what do you think?
<ailo> holstein: What is a mainline? The -lowlatency should be exactly the same as the -generic, and both should ideally be the same version
<ailo> The only difference would be the config file, with a few options altered
<ailo> This way we know we are only testing the diff between the two configs for the kernels
<holstein> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/generic_vs_lowlatency_test_results
<holstein> ^^ thats interesting, and probably good enough for scott-work to use
<holstein> thats why we need it ^^
<ailo> holstein: Here's a page with results from back then https://wiki.edubuntu.org/generic_vs_lowlatency_test_results
<len_> ailo: parole has problems too. It shows some videos really fat... not the right height to width ratio. It also seems to need libs we don't normally install to work right. I personally like xine even though it is quite old. But then I don't watch that many videos anyway. I think we are including one for completeness. I think the video editing apps have their own viewer... is that correct?
<ailo> len_: I don't know much at all about video. I like totem, as long as is doesn't freeze just from searching the video file (fast forwarding). And I use mplayer or vlc when I need more options
<ailo> holstein: We should really try testing for a bit longer periods, and preferably use a script. It shouldn't be too hard
<holstein> ailo: my tests for my personal needs take overnite
<ailo> The key is to make sure we get 0 xruns, before approving a setting is functional
<holstein> 8 tracks and 24/96 into ardour overnite
<holstein> with a zero xrun policy
<len_> ailo: Should we test a bunch of video players then? It seems they all use the same back ends anyway. I think we chose totem because it was the gnome or ubuntu standard. So it would be available.
<ailo> That'll take you a few nights to complete with a few different jack settings
<ailo> And multiple cards
<ailo> len_: I really don't have an opinion about that myself. Whatever is easy to use, and is functional is ok with me
<len_> ailo: that was my thought/comment as well.
<ailo> holstein: At a later stage, we did tests while compressing a file. That was a nice easy way to use up all of the CPU. Pretty simple to add that to a script
<ailo> I could look at that tomorrow. Now I gotta sleep. Good night folks
<ailo> I'm pretty excited about getting the -lowlatency in, and it's impressive how well US has progressed
<scott-work> eh, i'm still struggling to get it into REVU
<scott-work> i'll be honest, this is taxing both my patience and reserves, of which i tend to have both
<scott-work> er, "of which i tend to have plenty"
<ailo> scott-work: -lowlatency, or US in general?
<ailo> At least -lowlatency is in progress
<scott-work> lowlatency
<scott-work> i have had to explain _what_ it is and _why_ we need it to so many people at each step of the progression
<scott-work> and it seems like each step is difficult as well
<scott-work> like getting it into REVU, e.g.
<scott-work> first REVU was down and it appeared that no one knew it
<scott-work> then it turns out REVU is being deprecated, but is still used in some cases
<scott-work> and i don't think a kernel is a paritcularly good candidate for the latest new package process, but i might be mistaken on this
<scott-work> then when i squeek (as in squeeky wheel) REVU is restarted
<scott-work> then i can't upload because it seems to be not catching my key for some reason
<scott-work> i'm probably a moron and i'm doing everything wrong
<ailo> scott-works: I see. Well, let me and holstein give you some test results shortly to give you some data to show for whoever is approving it. We need to explain what the limits are, and why we need to have our performance stable within certain limits
<holstein> scott-work: line that link from edubuntu
<holstein> link*
<scott-work> you can replace kubuntu.org or whatever it was, with ubuntu.com and the link is the "official" one, methinks
<ailo> holstein: It was originally on Ubuntu wiki. I made those pages back then, but don't know what happened to them
<ailo> Right https://wiki.ubuntu.com/generic_vs_lowlatency_testing
<ailo> ubuntu.com, not ubuntu.org
<holstein> ok.. im queing up a xubuntu daily alternate iso
<scott-work> IT IS DONE!  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/linux-lowlatency
<scott-work> sirestart is my hero :)
<scott-work> TheMuso: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/linux-lowlatency
<holstein> scott-work: so we are in?
<holstein> we have it?
<scott-work> holstein: no, no...it's just in REVU, but it can now be reviewed by two MOTU (which one should be TheMuso ) and then after any (mostly likely) changes are made, it should be pushed to the archives
<holstein> scott-work: cool
<holstein> let me know what i can do then
<scott-work> but this is still a major milestone though :)
<holstein> ill postpone getting crazy with tests then
<holstein> i was just going to try and get you some docs.. more current ones
<ailo> I'll make a script for doing tests tomorrow anyway, just for the sake of it
<holstein> ailo: that would be great!
<holstein> ailo: i feel like we were really getting good results
<holstein> we meaning you were really helping me understand what to do
<scott-work> holstein: ailo:  there is something very tangible that i would like to generate from testing the lowlatency kernel
<scott-work> i would really like to be able to give users expectations on what they should experience
<scott-work> this goes for everyone i guess as well, not just you two :)
<scott-work> i would really like to spend a little time testing kernel performance using the same procedure (as arbitrary and non-explicit as it might be) and document the results for the users
<scott-work> i have four machines i can do this with which are all rather different (i386, i386 with hyper threading, amd64 dual core, amd64 six core)
<holstein> yeah, i think that near impossible though scott-work 
<holstein> i think so much of it depends on hardware
<holstein> i have USB devices that, on the same machine and kernel that i can get 1.2ms with FW, can barely get 20ms stable
<holstein> why?... i mean, we can assume driver support
<holstein> but that doesnt mean we can put that in a document
<holstein> i think the best we could do is offer a database where users can offer there experiences
<holstein> make it editable for when someone finds something new
<holstein> or when the kernel rev's and changes *everything* for that one hardware case ;0
<scott-work> holstein:  i'm not saying we just give a number
<holstein> just a general expectation?
<scott-work> holstein: i would like to give a chart given our hardware and the latency we expereienced
<holstein> scott-work: im into that.. certain hardware cases documented
<scott-work> holstein: aye
<holstein> i think with my FW device, some internal ones, and ailo 's 1010, we should be good
<holstein> i have a simple USB one too
<scott-work> i agree, and i think we have a broad range of hardware
<scott-work> even though this is not an explicit testing suite either, we still should be able to categorically demonstrate a performance expectation
<scott-work> and if we chose, we could even contrast this againt the generic kernel as well
<holstein> sure
<holstein> im in... ive recently aquired a few "not so bad" laptops devoted to testing
<holstein> couple cores
<holstein> 2 and 4 gb's of ram
<holstein> not sure about testing FW on them though
<holstein> i need to see about the chipset
<len_> Re k3b, bassero etc. Been playing with these two just now. I can not get k3b to put out a toc file before burning. or even while burning from what I can tell... brasero at least creates a bin and cue file, but when I try to split a track it only gives me the last 3 seconds to split.
<len_> Having a toc or cue file would allow manual editing to add a second language to the CD-TEXT stuff for example.
<len_> k3b splits tracks using an index mark, not making two tracks. some cdplayers will search for tracks but not index
<len_> brasero does offer an audition feature, but it does not seem to allow auditioning transitions. It just lets you hear what a track you are adding sounds like.
<len_> I will have to see (when I warm up) if a toc file created externally will be accepted by either program.
<len_> BTW a bin and cue file take more space than a toc file as the bin is the size of the CD. Both k3b and basero create files the size of the cd. A plain toc file uses the wav files as they are in place. A minor point with the size of disks now.
<len_> A bin and cue file or a toc with wav files is portable. cdrdao can run on different platforms so just these sets of files can print the same CD on almost any computer.
<len_> http://www.xbloome.com/drupal/howto/toc_cd_master gives a pretty good over view of a lot of what has been covered here.
<len_> Anyway,  it does not appear, after further research, that k3b offers a great advantage over brasero. perhaps not enough to justify the kde libs being added.
<len_> Further testing reveals that basero will burn a cd from a TOC file, but k3b will not. Brasero is not bullet proof and when given a toc tries to find the size of all files involved... it failed or was taking a very long time, but when I killed it and tried the same toc with it again it did print it.
<falktx> len_: k3b burns toc files here
<falktx> or at least it did some time ago, I don't burn cds for 2months now
<len_> I just got a can't read that from it. The toc file was created by gcdmaster
<len_> I am installing todays iso (12.04) I'll install k3b fresh and try the same file on that.
<falktx> hm, incompatible formats?
<falktx> is TOC a standard?
<len_> K3B seems to have it's own internal format in XML. I think toc is standard only in that anything that uses cdrdao should be able to pass the toc to cdrdao.
<len_> I think toc is a cdrdao thing, cue/bin is more of a standard at least for windows apps.
<holstein> as long as its the one that get spit out of ardour
<holstein> i can ask las...
<len_> Ardour spits out wav files. It doesn't that I could find put out a ready for cd set of stuff.
<holstein> len_: you can get toc from there
<holstein> you can get only toc
<holstein> if you want
<holstein> but, las is going to be the expert
<len_> there?
<len_> ardour?
<holstein> from ardour
<holstein> i did one project like that from 64studio
<holstein> years ago
<holstein> since then, i have only ever needed to spit out mastered files
<holstein> not one big CD session
<len_> ok. I didn't see it. I did look through the menu but could see anything like that.
<holstein> and, tbh, maybe making a mastered CD is old-school
<holstein> len_: its in the exporting step
<len_> Ah, I will look there. So it would have a list of wav files or just one long one?
<holstein> len_: you know... i forget how that looks
<holstein> i think its all the wav's and a TOC for where they go
<holstein> toc is just table of contents bascially correct?
<scott-work> http://www.64studio.com/howto-mastering
<holstein> yeah, thats a great don ^^
<holstein> doc*
<holstein> thats what i used to make that project i mentioned
<holstein> that page is the only reason 64studio.com should stay up ;)
<scott-work> looks like we are doing okay right now on the blueprints:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-ubuntu-studio.html
<scott-work> holstein: true!
<len_> I'm looking.. ardour3b2
<holstein> after thinking about it, we really shoul check with las
<len_> Ok, it looks like there is something like that there (ardour) It is hard to see as the dialogue goes off the bottom of my screen :-P but there is a place to set times and stuff.
<holstein> len_: yeah.. i asked in #ardour
<holstein> im sure las will respond soon
<len_> That is when the beginning of the sound should be and the end.
<len_> So can Jamin be used as a part of an ardour session as well?
<holstein> len_: i use it
<holstein> i just put it on the master as a bus
<holstein> very last thing
<len_> outside of ardour in jack then?
<holstein> len_: kind of
<holstein> its a bus in ardour
<len_> Or as an effect inside ardour?
<holstein> like an effect could be
<holstein> i used to just use it in JACK though
<holstein> before i knew how to use busses
<len_> Ok. that makes sense then.
<holstein> las and seablade are totally schooling me
<holstein> OK
<holstein> heres the scoop.. its the disc at once burning that gives us the gapless thing that we need
<holstein> here was my concern..
<holstein> say you want to overlap the end of a track and the beginning of another
<holstein> you can do this in ardour now
<holstein> spit out the tracks and the TOC or CUE sheet
<holstein> the burning reads them, and makes a gapless CD
<holstein> we should make sure that k3b can do that
<len_> So ardour does the burn as well?
<holstein> i could not get braseror to do that
<holstein> len_: nah
<holstein> it just spits out the particulars, and the wav's
<len_> Basero burned a cd for me with gapless stuff, but the toc it burned was crreated with gcdmaster.
<holstein> len_: interesting
<holstein> len_: do you still have that project?
<holstein> can you try exporting the toc file only? from ardour
<holstein> and use that one?
<len_> Just made it up this morning from randome wav files off a cd (not mine) for testing.
<holstein> if brasero can do it, then we are good to go
<holstein> we dont need to do much else
<holstein> what about xfburn?
<len_> I would have to make a project first. I have not really used ardour yet. I have done anything <I have done with audacity.
<len_> xfburn (if I remember correctly) did not look promising... but I didn't try it.
<holstein> len_: i should have the rig on tonite
<holstein> i'll try
<holstein> nah... that wont work
<holstein> i'll hae to build a rig for it
<holstein> have*
<holstein> thats all 10.04
<holstein> and im *not* installing a bunch of testing crap on there right now
<len_> I'm installing 12.04 right now... configuring apt takes forever... better without network connect.
<len_> And thats wired net, wireless the apt setup takes longer than the rest of the install.
<scott-work> holstein: len_ :  keep in mind that when we install nautilus (which i think we want to do as file manager) we basically get brasero for free
<scott-work> it kinda seems redundant to then xfburn
<holstein> scott-work: ill test it
<scott-work> but if you want to test for knowledge then that's good too :)
<holstein> if it can do toc and cue we are in the gold
<holstein> scott-work: if brasero cant do toc and/or que, we need something that can
<holstein> anyways.. it probably does.. that'll settle it
<holstein> ill make a test install and import some files and test
<holstein> or, if you're saying, you just want brasero regardless, when we'll just go with that
<len_> scott-work: basero so far does better than k3b
<scott-work> holstein: no, i'm not saying that i want brasero regardless, i'm saying that if brasero works for our needs then we can install it without additional dependecies and might not want to consider xfburn
<scott-work> len_: that is interesting and surprising
<len_> It appears that ardour can create a proper toc file (need more testing) which means burning from a toc is all that is needed. I haven't been able to get k3b to do that.
<len_> for that matter, once the toc file is created, cdrdao can be run from the cli
<holstein> len_: what about brasero?
<holstein> of brasero does, we are done!
<holstein> if*
<holstein> len_: i have someone else confirming k3b issues with toc files
<holstein> looks like k3b is out
<holstein> len_: this guy says he uses cdrdao from the terminal
<holstein> i think we need a GUI to offer them though
<falktx> seems like we need to report a bug
<len_> ScottL: See my email on the list. ISO doesn't get me X, just cli
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-01-20
<len_> ScottL: that is todays ISO first one since the seeds change. Sorry I was in a hurry.
<falktx> len_: I think it was ubuntu's fault, but not sure
<falktx> I saw some ubuntu lightdm fixes recently
<len_> OK, Just that is was missing a session file that I saw. So it should fix itself? I had thought that was one of the things we were working on with theme etc.
<falktx> don't ask me, I was just pointing out something
<len_> A simple link fixed it. I'll post that to the list.
<len_> ScottL: Take a look at the list. I am not sure is this is a file you added or not. But it needs a link to default.desktop.
<len_> cdrdao does not seem to be a part of US 12.04 even with basero installed.
<TheMuso> len_: Yeah, thats because libbrasero-media3-1 only suggests cdrdao, I'll reply on list.
<ScottL> len_, i have updated the seeds but i don't think anyone has uploaded the changes to the archive yet
<len_> ScottL: lots of changes. What I see in the seeds is about what I got.
<len_> New editor, nautilus, etc.
<ailo> holstein: Still up?
<ailo> I'm close to finishing a test script
<ailo> We might as well do it, since we've been talking about it.
<holstein> ailo: i am actually
<micahg> ScottL: I'm piloting Monday, so the latest stuff should go in would be then
<ailo> holstein: Something's not right. I loaded the cpu to maximum and was able to run jackd in -p 32 with -generic without xruns
<ailo> While getting xruns at -p 256 before
<ailo> holstein: It'll have to wait until you wake up. I forgot I need to add using an application while doing the test.
<ailo> ..but, -lowlatency seems to have a problem with graphic drivers..
<ailo> holstein, ScottL: I'm abandoning my test script, which I finished today. All I can say from comparing -lowlatency to -generic all morning is that -lowlatency is simply good enough for pro needs and -generic is not. Creating a real test to determine exactly how is beyond me right now.
<scott-work> progress for precise blueprints almost at 50% :)  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-ubuntu-studio.html
<scott-work> astraljava: given the talk yesterday about len's reporting about using brasero to burn ardour's TOC file, do you think we should continue to look at porting gcdmaster?
<scott-work> astraljava: i kinda feel that we shouldn't
<scott-work> astraljava: cjwatson is the shiznit :)
<holstein> agreed
<astraljava> scott-work: C'mon, everybody knows that. :D
<astraljava> He's one of the real rockstars in this community.
<scott-work> i agree
<scott-work> i'm wondering if the live-dvd will just install all seeds right now
<scott-work> i'm also wondering how soon the live-dvd will be generated
<scott-work> s/live-dvd/live-dve image
<scott-work> i am presuming within a few days
<astraljava> Probably on Monday. I'll try and get the plugin done during the weekend, so we'd have tasks selectable by then.
<scott-work> groovy :)
<holstein> EPIC!
<astraljava> scott-work: Oh yeah, you mentioned the gcdmaster porting. It might not be required as a release goal, but I'm actually quite interested about the project anyhow. So I'll probably continue with that, but make it lower priority.
<scott-work> astraljava: that sounds like a good plan :)
<scott-work> progress is looking even better...http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-ubuntu-studio.html
<astraljava> Not so much about the outcome, but about the practice on GTK3, and the porting part. I haven't touched the new version at all yet.
<scott-work> i have some answers about getting the default, sane jack settings as well that i might tackle this weekend
<holstein> scott-work: what are they out of the box?
<scott-work> astraljava: i remember _someone_, maybe len, that looked at it and implied it didn't really look all the complicated, something about the window was all that being done with that library
<scott-work> two points about this:  #1 i know crap about it all, so maybe i completely misunderstood, and #2 maybe they knew crap about it :P
<scott-work> holstein: nothing right, i believe.  i think it is created when jack is first run
<holstein> not sure
<scott-work> astraljava: maybe it was ailo 
<holstein> if it just comes up as 256/2 or 512/2.. that would be great
<scott-work> holstein: i think i have the settings you and someone else told me
<holstein> i forget which we landed on
<scott-work> flash crashed, is this still working?
<holstein> either one of those would be fine though
<scott-work> holstein: do you see this?
<astraljava> scott-work: I do.
<astraljava> Not sure about Mike. :)
<astraljava> But yeah, re: gcdmaster, it really depends on how the relevant APIs have changed.
<scott-work> flash crashed
<scott-work> holstein: do you happen to remember the settings if i can't find them?
<holstein> scott-work: sure.. we can come up with it quickly
<holstein> its one of those
<holstein> 512/2 or 256/2
<holstein> doesnt really matter
<holstein> i think we went with the safer one
<scott-work> i thought you suggested 3 frames/period
<scott-work> what about the sample rate?
<scott-work> and should we use -rt as default?
<holstein> scott-work: falktx_ talked me out of that
<holstein> and i agreed after his explanation
<scott-work> i think 44.1k sample rate, the only option for some cards
<holstein> relating to USB compatibility
<falktx_> 44100, 512, 2
<falktx_> those are the magic numbers
<scott-work> outstanding, falktx_ !  thanks, man :)
<holstein> yeah, 44.1
<holstein> some folks need 48000, but they'll just have to know that
<scott-work> what about -rt privs?  yes?
<falktx_> i usually run at 48000
<falktx_> but 44100 is more general
<holstein> i have found it doesnt hurt to have the RT check box checked anymore
<holstein> we should double check that
<holstein> and i have always said to set up JACK with RT privs and havent had issues either way
<scott-work> micahg: cjwatson was already touching the seeds for the live-dvd, you might find that he has already taken care of the metas, i'm probably wrong but i wanted to mentionit
<micahg> scott-work: live DVD doesn't require a meta upload
<len> scott-work: Just a clarification, I have tested basero with a gcdmaster toc file, not an ardour toc file.
<scott-work> ah, good point len 
<len> I would thnk they are both alike though. I will try to test importing some wave files to ardour and making a toc file and getting brasero to burn it.
<len> I am a bit behind... some one just took some of the side off my truck, so I have that to deal with.
<astraljava> len: An accident, are you saying?
<len> astraljava: Some one crossed the center line.
<astraljava> Awww crap! Sorry to hear that!
<len> I'm still drivable, but my running boards a mess.
<len> Gotta get the kids now schools out.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-01-21
<len> ScottL: I was able to make a toc file with Ardour2 that brasero was able to print to cd.
<len> I could not find a way of doing this with ardour 3.
<len> Ardour 3 is much nicer in many ways, but I guess I have to look some more.
<len> Basero does have one problem though. It doesn't go away when its done.
<len> I right click on a toc file and select brasero to run with it, print a CD and exit.
<len> It closes it's window, but when I do a ps x brasero is still there and if I try to right click on the toc file a second time... brasero doesn't show up.
<len> If I start Brasero from the main menu, it doesn't, but it does get rid of the already running brasero.
<len> I probably just don't know ardour well enough, but I find gcdmaster easier to use and get good results with than ardour.
<len> I have been working on a quick and simple toc editor, but I think it will be hard to beat gcdmaster. It really was a nice application.
<astraljava> Well then, I guess I will have to keep on working on it. :)
<astraljava> len: From your email, I started looking into the seeds more. It seems we're not shipping mudita24 at all. Can you verify that?
<len> That would be up to you. The reality is that there are tools that will do the job.
<len> I agree. It is something I asked Scott to add.
<len> It does not come with a desktop file though. I had to change the envy24controler one to work with it
<astraljava> Ok. I will add it. The question is, shall I file a sync request from debian sid, as there appears to be a newer version than what we have in precise currently.
<len> Not sure the one I got from synaptic is so much nicer than the old 0.6 that I didn't think of that.
<len> I don't have it on this box so I can't look at the version.
<astraljava> Right. I'll see if I have time to install debian on real hw one of these days before the freeze, to see whether it is stable already.
<astraljava> The version we have in precise is 1.0.3-1
<len> sounds right. It has real peek detect
<astraljava> sid has 1.0.3+svn13-2
<len> What does that add?
<astraljava> I'm installing a sid chroot right now, to have a deeper look into stuff in there.
<len> I will go and file a bug report about basero I guess.
<astraljava> That would be good.
<astraljava> I will also ask from quadrispro when he's online, as he's the debian maintainer.
<ailo> Jack should always start with the rt mode checked. And I assume the user will have realtime privilege by default
<ailo> One thing I talked about a long time is getting audio to be a default group for newly created users
<ailo> Someone has to know how to do that easily
<ailo> If we get the lowlatency kernel, I think 256 is pretty safe
<ailo> Without it, I think 1024 is better
<ailo> Not sure about period/buffer, but I've often read some people have trouble with 2, why 3 might be the better choice
<astraljava> ailo: What do you mean 'default group'? It's easy to add the user to audio group for sure. But I don't understand what a default group is.
<ailo> astraljava: When you create a new user, it should be in audio group by default
<ailo> That is what I mean by default
<ailo> Users should not need to administrate that themselves
<astraljava> Sure, that can be done.
<astraljava> But is it actually needed? If so, then for what?
<ailo> astraljava: It is required in order to get realtime privilege. New users won't have a clue how to achieve that
<ailo> But then again, I'm not that familiar about the whole problem of creating new users
<ailo> Doing that from the command line is not the same as doing it graphically
<ailo> astraljava: When you do it graphically in Precise (at least in Ubuntu), you can create two type of users (they've made it simpler)
<ailo> It makes sense for both types to have realtime privilege. The two types of users are: administrator, and normal user.
<ailo> It's not a very common problem since not everyone will create a new user, but I would still consider not letting new users become members of audio group being a bug
<astraljava> ailo: Is this still valid? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Audio/TheAudioGroup
<ailo> astraljava: That is from a non-audio point of view. Maybe in the future we will not need audio group, but right now, we need it
<ailo> Without it we have no realtime operation at all
<astraljava> Well it does say the same thing, actually. Just wanted to verify it's still up-to-date.
<ailo> AFAIK, there has been no change there yet
<astraljava> Ok, I will add that to the list of things needing to be changed.
<stochastic> knome, how are you?
<astraljava> Most likely hungover, judging from the way the evening was progressing in here. :D
<knome> huh? :P
<knome> nah, i had one beer
<knome> i'm fine
<len> alio: Re: audio group. Should there be more than one user in this group?
<len> After reading the page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Audio/TheAudioGroup from above, I understand why people would like to get rid of it.
<len> I also know we need it. I am thinking about the way we use the machine here.
<len> I am the only one who does recording or uses jack in the house. anyone else is fine with pulse.
<len> In the case of a commercial set up, the new accounts would be set up by "IT" or at least by someone with better than average user skills.
<len> Perhaps we need our own new user tool that would give three choices: admin, user and sound engineer.
<len> My thought would be, that even in a studio where more than one person needs access to jack. The use would be project based.
<len> So all the people that might work on any one project would need to be able to login to the same account anyway.
<len> I am thinking that the better setup would be to create two accounts at install. One admin account and one sound account
<len> The sound account would actually have less access to things (no sudo) and be almost at the low level of access of guest. Admin would not normally come with audio group... but could for one user kinds of operations.
<len> If there was going to be an engineer kind of user. There normal setup for files would be group read/write/ex for their home directory or there would be global "projects" directory set up by user "project" with group audio and group permissions the same as user.
<len> That is anyone in the audio group would be able to start a new project in this directory and anyone else in the audio group would be able to take over and finish it.
<len> Sorry for being wordy... I am thinking out loud. I read this last night but couldn't put anything into words.
<len> I do think, however, that US needs to rethink security as it relates to audio production (or video and art for that matter) where collaboration is expected for a good product.
<len> Right now a newly created user has user.user and the files they create are 744. This is ok for a normal desktop. But is it really right for what we want to do?
<len> To be able to set up a project directory that all audio engineers have a link to from their home directory with it's own effective umask would require the acl package.(setfacl and getfacl)
<len> I think I will drop most of this in the list as well.
<ailo> The implications mentioned on that wiki page for using audio group seems to be mostly about not being able to share a device using multiple logins
<holstein> at least these are thing we *can* address... instead of issues like the kernel where we need pacakges that are not in the repos
<ailo> My version of us-controls had the ability to give the current user realtime privilege, but the best option is when you don't need to worry about that at all
<ailo> The less settings you need to poke around with, the better
<ailo> If I had time, I would gladly work on that tool again. My idea was to try push it into Debian, using an unbranded name. And for it to be a general tool to turn a Debian based system into a pro audio friendly one
<holstein> ailo: i like that idea
<len> holstein: About ardour 3. I don't seem to be able to export a toc file from there. I can export files and I can set track CD_DATA but there is no where to set toc/cue/none.
<holstein> len: we an ask las, but i say, try A2
<len> I was able to create a toc with ardour2 and print it with brasero.
<holstein> could be something they havent brought over yet
<holstein> we can ask*
<len> Well I was trying a3b2 and looked things up. I found that a3b1a says they fixed toc/cue creation so I reloaded a3b1a but no luck.
<holstein> we wont have A3 for a while anyways :/
<len> For 12.04 we will be shipping A2 I would guess so it is not a problem.
<len> I am thinking down the road.
<holstein> wonder if its ready for 12.10...
<ailo> Haven't you heard? The world will end soon , Muhahahaa
<ailo> Or not
<ailo> A3 aught to be ready pretty soon, don't you think?
<holstein> they are not slacking off, thats for sure
<len> In editing with ardour. If I select a portion of audio and cut it out the cut works but leaves a gap. Is there a way to have the cut time come out too, so that the audio before and after the cut join?
<holstein> i think the default idea is to make that an editable process
<holstein> and what happens to the data in other tracks
<holstein> ?
<holstein> im sure thats possible though
<holstein> las would know
<len> Maybe if it is done on the master track?
<ailo> You need to move the region
<holstein> i usually just split tracks where i want to edit and get "picky" from there
<ailo> If you do the same in Audacity, you'll cut out the time as well, not only the audio
<holstein> im sure theres a toggle for it
<holstein> if you are working with only one file, that would save time editing
<ailo> In a DAW it doesn't make a lot of sense, since you are probably doing multitrack recording and don't want files to move by themselves
<len> One thing I did notice is that ardour is quite good at making "bad" toc files ;-) That have to be hand edited after creation. Generally if I wanted to put two regions on the CD while skipping a portion of sound in between. Ardour put a sighlent portion in for me...
<len> Brasero does not like to be started with a toc file on the command line. It works, but never exits.
<holstein> i think our solution must be GUI
<len> If you right click on a toc file and select brasero, that is the same as calling it with the file name on a command line.
<len> If you do it twice... it only works once because it never exits.
<holstein> lol
<ailo> Have you reported it as a bug?
<holstein> yeah, we can ust get more envolved in this process
<len> I have to put a bug in, but that was with US 10.04 and I wanted to try it on something newer too.
<holstein> its likely we are the only 3 people discussing using TOC's in linux right now
<ailo> It would be good to document the progress anyhow. I like that stones have been turned over and knowledge has increased. 
<holstein> yup
<len> True, but it may effect and file opened with brasero not just a toc. Brasero does create bin/cue for example and right click on a cue may be the same thing. This happens even when the dialogue is cancelled as well as when the burn is successful.
<ailo> Those who want to read documentation might learn something new and handy in the process
<len> Just sent email to the list with regarding groups accounts and stuff. One thought on how it could be set up to be collaborative.
<len> Or more so anyway.
<len> I am going to reboot and try brasero on 12.04 for the same bug.
<ScottL> len, ailo :  just to be clear, when installing ubuntu studio from the ISO it does add the user to the audio group
<ScottL> ailo, what you are speaking of is when a user "updates" ubuntu to ubuntu studio, correct?
<ScottL> an option would be to make a package for "update" or "upgrading" to ubuntu studio
<ScottL> this package could include code to add the user to the audio group
<ailo> ScottL: Nope. What I'm talking about is really a minor problem for most people, but could still be considered a bug. It only involves the situation where you create a new user
<ScottL> ah, i see
<ScottL> the original spec for ubuntu studio was for a single user system
<ScottL> not to say that this still isn't a problem we could address
<ailo> Though it would make sense to add user to audio group if installing ubuntustudio packages from a regular ubuntu as well
<ScottL> ailo, aye
<ScottL> i am also working on adding sane, default jack settings...this could be incorporated into some sort of "upgrade"
<ScottL> okay, i have to go for a bit to take the kids to get haircuts, i'll be back later though
<len> brasero bug #919767  filed. I don't know how to make it apply as a ubuntustudio bug as well.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 919767 in brasero (Ubuntu) "brasero stays in memory after use" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/919767
<len> But it should be.
<ScottL> len, just to be clear, installing ubuntu studio from the ISO does add the user to the audio group
<ScottL> it doesn't do that so far when a user "upgrades" from ubuntu to ubuntu stuio
<ScottL> nor does it automagically when a additional user is added in an existing ubuntu studio install
<ScottL> thanks ailo for pointing this last one out
<ScottL> len, can you explain further about your thoughts on ubuntu studio and security?
<ScottL> astraljava, i have an idea, since there are many "tasks" or work items that we are working on, perhaps we should make a wiki page to list them, the person who is doing them, and the expected completion date
<ScottL> maybe not completion date, but maybe if they are targeted for A1, A2, A3, B1, or B2 etc
<holstein> we need to make sure the live user gets permissions it needs too
<holstein> otherwise, its a bit of a waste of effort
<stochastic> knome, I wanted to touch base with you soon and chat about the webpage's current state
<stochastic> when works for you?
<len> ScottL: The installing user gets group audio. A new user by default gets nothing.
<len> My thought are best explained on the email list. It gets "rangy" trying to do that here.
<len> That is thoughts on user rights
<len> I don't know if it is security so much and it really goes beyond single user use. It may be more than we want/need for what we are trying to do.
<len> Hmm, the magic ferry
<len> the magic ferries have left another iso to test... is it going to work?
<len> I know wrong spelliing of fairy
<ScottL> len, i believe the original spec of ubuntu studio was for a single user system
<ScottL> len, that doesn't mean we cannot consider multiple users however
<ScottL> len, and of course we are not bound to the original spec in other aspects as well
<ScottL> len, oh, some of it he iso's may be "funny" and not work for a day or so because colin should have made the changes for a live-dvd
<ScottL> i could be wrong however and the images work just fine without any trouble between alternate-install and live-dvd transition
<len> Jan 20 was built part way between changes, that may be why there was trouble. I'll try.
<knome> stochastic, now is fine
<astraljava> ScottL: Yeah, I think goals could be linked to release schedule of each dev cycle. That's more understandable and concrete than just other artificial dates.
<ScottL> astraljava, part of my concern was making sure that we are correctly prioritizing items, making sure they are scheduled properly, and that people aren't doubling up on a particular item
<astraljava> ScottL: Of course. We probably should pay more attention to tasks in the formal meetings, too.
<knome> where did stochastic go? ScottL, any progress on thinking about the website?
<knome> or did i promise to do something but forgot?
<knome> :/
<astraljava> Just what kind of a beer was that?! :D
<knome> lol
<knome> it's just so much time since that discussion
<knome> i think ...
<ScottL> knome, i don't know where he went, i haven't made any progress lately, and you haven't forgotten anything yet ;)
<ScottL> knome, now that i've gotten through the them-ui changes, pushing the lowlatency kernel to REVU, and the live-dvd is in progress i will focus primarily on the website
<ScottL> knome, i realize that we got an email about the website being on the top of the rt "to do" list and i'm very keen to get as much done before they push it to a staging area
<ScottL> (this isn't to say that there won't need to be theme-ui tweaks, updates to the kernel and more though required for live-dvd/ubiquity/work flows, but the main thrust of those are completed
<knome> ScottL, you, np
<knome> ^         ^
<knome> p
<knome> err
<knome> nvm
<astraljava> Dude, you gotta stop sipping that stuff. It's killing you!
<knome> i had a bad german bock today :(
<astraljava> Heheh. :)
<stochastic> hey, knome, sorry, hockey game is on and I'm making chili for the NFL party tomorrow so I'm moving about the house
<astraljava> What game are you watching? I'm listening to the Sens @ Ducks.
<stochastic> I'm in Vancouver
<astraljava> Oh ok. Tight one.
<stochastic> clearly watching the 'nucks and sharks, yeah, good game
<stochastic> knome, I just wanted to make sure the website is progressing still, see where things are at.  I know that I still need to add in content
<stochastic> how is the theme in your opinion?
<knome> stochastic, i'm waiting for some decisions from scott. i'd also like to get feedback on how the articles on the site look like, and if they need fixing. overall, i think it's looking fine, and once we get the "featured" space fixed, we can look at polishing the rest of the site too to match that
<stochastic> cool 
<stochastic> I really just wanted to touch base
<knome> yup
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-01-22
<knome> i've been busy with money-making job, but i'm available
<knome> if you ever need something, just ping me
<len> ScottL: todays (jan21) iso has the old ffmpeg extra problem. Possibly introduced by the live stuff. I'm thinking the "slide show".
<len> So install fails
<ailo> It's Gnome3 thing - choosing which file manager manages the desktop
<ailo> It's also possible to have no file manager managing the desktop, if you want
 * micahg is fixing the libav-extra issue
<ailo> Would be great if jackd2 1.9.8 wound up in the repo..
<len> Download and install 12.04 US for today jan21 (here still)
<len> Found some interesting things. I don't like the kernel... it panics when I insert my sd card in it's slot... the same sd is fine through a usb converter.
<len> the same sd is fine with xubuntu 11.10. I tried to install with the sd in the sd slot... booted fine but then could not "find" the "cd".
<len> I took the sd out plugged it into the usb adaptor and it was fine. Under xubuntu 11.10 They both put out the same logging in dmesg.
<micahg> len: let's wait for jackd2 to migrate to testing first
<len> This is still a generic kernel
<len> I will have to bug report anyway.
<len> The install failed after setting all workflows for install because of ffmpeg extra confict again.
<micahg> yeah, I just uploaded it 2 hours ago, it should be in the 22nd ISOs
<len> So I just installed art and audio plugins and got through ok....
<len> Just uploaded what? Kernel or ffmpeg fix
<micahg> ffmpeg
<micahg> there's a 3.2.0-10 kernel for precise now as well though
<len> OK. Has the kernel got put in the seeds/metas yet?
<len> Is the lowlat kernal built on the same source as the generic?
<micahg> lowlatency isn't in the archive yet
<len> might be a good thing I tested with this one so we know it is not the lowlat that is causing it.
<len> Once I got it going I ran synaptic to install the metas I missed.
<len> they all selected fine (promised to uninstall the non-extras) until I got to the video meta.
<len> synaptic would not let me select the video meta because of a dep on ffmpeg... which, it said "would not be installed".
<len> So I tried to select ffmpeg... no joy it had a dep of an av* that was not to be installed...
<ailo> The idea with -lowlatency is that it is built from exactly the same source as -generic, except it has a slightly different configuration
<ailo> Now, there is a difference between the current -lowlatency, and the current -generic however
<ailo> The have different versions I believe
<len> I'll file the bug against the kernel I have here.
<len> The video meta seems to be bad. 
<len> ubuntustudio-video:
<len>  Depends: ffmpeg but it is not going to be installed
<len>  Depends: openshot but it is not going to be installed
<micahg> len: please wait tomorrow to try the video
<len> /usr/share/xgreeters/default.desktop is still missing (link)
<micahg> is it not working now?
<len> I put it in manually
<len> I will try video again tomorrow.
<len> The install should work if the extras have been fixed.
<len> Ok, looks like the av stuff is in the middle of an upgrade. Some are done and others not.
<len> The two packages that won't install require 4:0.8, but we have 4:0.7
<craigs63> hi kids, meeting here in 40 minutes?
<astraljava> Not here, but on #ubuntu-meeting.
<astraljava> ScottL: holstein: Up for chairing? I'm a little distracted here.
<craigs63> thanks
<holstein> astraljava: i should be home by then, and i should have time to chair
<astraljava> Thanks Mike!
<holstein> i might be a bit late
<holstein> running home now
<holstein> OK
<holstein> not bad... one minute late :)
<ailo> I just tried out mudita24
<ailo> Only the levels, I/O and the meters
<ailo> The app is pretty basic
<ailo> Don't forsee any problems with it
<holstein> cool
<holstein> craigs63: thanks for attending
<astraljava> ailo: len: Give it a few more runs, and prepare to report your findings in the next meeting. Ok?
<astraljava> I'm fairly confident it runs well, so we could do it in the next informal meeting a week from now, it's not that big a deal.
<astraljava> But since it's not a "stable" release from the upstream, I also don't wanna get it synced just like that.
<ailo> astraljava: IT won't crash anyway. The questions is whether all the controls are doing what they are supposed, but I would think they do, since the changes were more of a superficial nature
<ailo> There is some oddity in how the volume controls are drawn
<ailo> But, it makes no difference
<ailo> It all seems to work normally
<holstein> i just copied https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2012February5 over from todays agenda and edited times
<holstein> if you guys want to "have at it"
<astraljava> holstein: Thanks! I can edit it for actions and stuff.
<holstein> astraljava: thanks... i dont mind chewing away at some of it too.. im just doing the broad strokes before i need to run out the door
<astraljava> Sure thing.
<ailo> I'm going to sleep, at 7pm.
<ailo> See you guys around
<holstein> astraljava: i think todays page looks good
<holstein> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2012January22
<holstein> if you want to go ahead and focus on the next meetings' page
<holstein> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2012February5
<holstein> couldnt decide if it should be 5 or 05 ..whatever
<ScottL> jeez, sorry for missing the meeting
<ScottL> wife is out of town and i'm a little distracted with the two boys
<ScottL> and completely missed that it was past 10:00 already
<astraljava> No worries Scott. :)
<ScottL> i feel bad because it's become routine for me to miss the meeting
<ScottL> i rely on google calendar for reminders but i'm not always by a computer or with my phone
<ScottL> when home i routinely put my phone on my dresser in the bedroom and only pick it up if we go out
<astraljava> It's not that big a deal, really. We can work out the issues at other times. And we should, too. For instance the tasks tracking etc.
<ScottL> i think i might buy a cheap alarm clock and put it somewhere cental that will go off on sundays
<astraljava> So it really isn't an issue if one of us misses a meeting or three.
<ScottL> but it's not like the meeting is not friendly to my time zone, i'm available and practically always at the house during those times
<ScottL> i just need a better system to remind myself about the meeting
<ScottL> is anyone interested in being a 3rd maintainer for the lowlatency kernel?  this would basically be a fail-over position in case abogani or i were no longer available?
<ScottL> i will also be creating a lowlatency kernel team under ubuntu studio, the three persons would be on this team
<ScottL> TheMuso, can i have your advice about how to properly include sane, default jack settings?
<ScottL> TheMuso, we have the settings and i have been told that i can place them in the /skel directory to be included into a user's home directory
<ScottL> TheMuso, my concern is about whether they should be included in the -default-settings package or create another binary from within the -default-settings source code
<ScottL> TheMuso, i am leaning to creating another binary for this because this would limit people's access to isntalling something into their /home directory unecessarily or unintentionally
<micahg> if they're defaults, why aren't they set on the system level instead of a per-user basis?
<ScottL> micahg, i believe that jack only sets it's setting in the user's home directory, i don't know if it can be set like you are describing but i think that is a good idea if possible
<micahg> you might want to talk to the Debian multimedia team (#debian-multimedia on OFTC)
<ScottL> i.e. have a default system setting, but if the user adjusts it then it gets set in the /home directory then and jack always checks for the existance of the /home directory settings first and uses the system setting otherwise
<ScottL> micahg, i will do that
<astraljava> ScottL: I can be the third maintainer, sure.
<ScottL> astraljava, sweet!  i'll make the team later this evening :)
<ScottL> (and i can mark the blueprint as "DONE" on two more items)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-01-14
<zequence> morning
<astraljava> Hey zequence, how's Monday treating ya thus far?
<zequence-w> astraljava: Hi :). Been busy all morning, so I guess I haven't had the time to think about it yet
<zequence-w> I like Mondays. Even though, I would have preferred to have it postponed as I was busy with something else yesterday
<astraljava> Yeah. I'm kinda in the middle of something as well, so I'm thinking I'll leave early and finish what I started. Kinda have to, cause some of it has deadlines tomorrow anyway.
<scott-work> good morning everyone
<len-1304> good morning
<len-1304> micahg, when you read this, both -settings and -icon-theme need uploading/releasing
<len-1304> micahg, icon-theme had a spelling error in it
<scott-work> len-1304: i feel bad for not doing the -release team report and want to submit a late one, is there anything memorable you can mention to me to add?
<scott-work> i know zequence has been working on the kernel, you have done worked on the icons
<scott-work> is there anything in particular you would mention for the -settings changes and other theming aspects?
<len-1304> still in progress pending testing.
<len-1304> The install Icon is correct if our icon theme is chosen. but is not by default yet. 
<len-1304> When the new settings is released it will be.
<len-1304> We have added zita-ajbridge, a high quality replacement for alsa-in
<len-1304> When we added kdenlive we got k3b as well
<len-1304> I'm not a video guy and so I have not tested kdenlive
<len-1304> Gotta run bye now
<micahg> len-1304: ok, will do
<scott-work> len-1304: kdenlive really is a good video editor
<scott-work> hi ttoine
<ttoine> hi scott-work 
<ttoine> scott-work, I build a ubuntu studio workstation this week for a small studio in my area
<ttoine> because of the problem of  Mixbus / cairo / nvidia driver, we are building a full amd workstation
<ttoine> intel is too expensive for the same power...
<ttoine> I hope it will be possible to make a kind of white paper case
<zequence> ttoine: ATI graphic card?
<zequence> The free drivers for ATI are fully functional, but have a tendency to cause overheating
<zequence> The proprietary drivers only work for 12.04
<zequence> Intel graphics are the best choice for studio setups IMO
<ttoine> zequence, i agree with you
<ttoine> but for the same performance, it is 150 â¬ more...
<ttoine> zequence, and I am seriously considering using a 12.04 lts, because harrison mixbus and linux dsp are working on this one too
<zequence> AMD has had problems with performance with their processors. Even with many cores and a high frequency, depending on the job, they don't do well compared to Intel
<ttoine> zequence, well, it depends. For high level computing, AMD is prefered than Intel
<ttoine> and a lot of gamers and overclocking specialists use amd
<ttoine> a good point for AMD is that they package their CPU with more quit fans
<zequence> A new fan is cheap though
<zequence> The power supply is a different story :)
<ttoine> yes
<ttoine> a good oversized antec  ;-)
<scott-work> ttoine: i would be very interested in reading such a white paper
<zequence> Just got my own subdomain for the Linux course I'm holding. Not much up yet, but hoping it'll lead to some work :). http://linux.itlyftet.se/
<zequence> Already, I've made a few people use Ubuntu over Windows at the place where I'm holding the course
<ttoine> zequence, wich wootheme is it ?
<ttoine> nevermind, i can find it myself
<zequence> ttoine: Inspire
<scott-work> zequence: congratulations. that must make you feel good
<zequence> scott-work: It doesn't feel like work, you know
<ttoine> zequence, I understand you... it is always a great feeling to teach a passion
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-01-15
<ttoine> hello
<ttoine> 10cm of snow here. the world around me is slow or still.
<smartboyhw> len-1304, zequence ttoine how you guys doing???
<ttoine> hello smartboyhw 
<ttoine> here, it is snow white. and in a big french city, it means all is slow or still. it means it is hard to use a car,
<smartboyhw> ttoine, how's Ubuntu Studio going these days?
 * smartboyhw missed three weeks just for exam purpose
<ttoine> for my part, I am doing a lot of tests with mixbus, and soon with lighworks
<smartboyhw> Good
 * smartboyhw goes download a new ISO for testing:P
<ttoine> and I work with a small non profit studio in order to install this week a ubuntu studio workstation for audio production. I hope I will be able to make a kind of white paper
<smartboyhw> !?
<ttoine> smartboyhw, i saw that some work has been done with PA and jack
<smartboyhw> ttoine, that's probably zequence's
<smartboyhw> zequence, saw your kernel maintenance guide nice one
<smartboyhw> ttoine, good post
<smartboyhw> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=12451911&postcount=52
<ttoine> smartboyhw, very interesting.
<smartboyhw> Interesting things are what we need
 * smartboyhw goes to work on Xfce translations
<zequence> smartboyhw: The kernel maintenance guide is not ready yet. Things have a way to not work as one expects, so I'll need to fill it with more info later on
<smartboyhw> zequence, for my part is that the script cannot startnewrelease for me, it shows an error
<zequence> smartboyhw: The script will only work, if there's something to update. But, there should be no error. Just a "everything is already up to date"
<smartboyhw> zequence, I mean when there IS something to update:P
<zequence> smartboyhw: The guide is not complete, so there might be some error
<zequence> smartboyhw: If you want to understand how it all works, just study the script in detail
<zequence> The commands are not that difficult. Most of it is just creating the variables for release tags, etc
<smartboyhw> zequence, the problem is that it says there's no changelog in debian
<zequence> And making sure the commits are pretty looking
 * smartboyhw did read through the script
<zequence> smartboyhw: You didn't do debian/rules clean
<smartboyhw> zequence, hmm let me try again (I did do it however)
<zequence> smartboyhw: If you did it, and had all the dependencies installed, you'd have a changelog
<smartboyhw> zequence, ok. But I can't understand why we have to do the work in GitHub..... 
<zequence> smartboyhw: It doesn't matter where it is. Probably we'll be uploading to PPA later, and have the packages built there. Then, they just sync from there
<zequence> The important part is we get control of the source, and they are fine with how we do things
<smartboyhw> :D
<smartboyhw> zequence, so you actually did the last update wow:D
<smartboyhw> zequence, the thing is that you should write a guide for updating metas (small work)
<zequence> smartboyhw: I don't do the metas. They are done automatically somehow
<smartboyhw> zequence, ooh
 * smartboyhw doesn't know that
<smartboyhw> sadly there are no new kernels, if not I would really want to try the guide once-out
<zequence> smartboyhw: If you subscribe to bug reports for linux-lowlatency, you'll be notified of the next update
<zequence> The bug doesn't have a version in the name initially. Once the source is uploaded, the bug name changes to include the version
<smartboyhw> zequence, I will now:D
<smartboyhw> Subscribed
<Len-nb> smartboyhw, pulse is still getting fixed.It is not a done deal yet.
<smartboyhw> Len-nb, ouch I just submitted a pass result in the QA Tracker for Cadence week 4
<Len-nb> The test is simple
<Len-nb> run audacious with some audio. Then start jack with qjackctl
<Len-nb> Jack should still start.
<ttoine> hop
<ttoine> zequence, the 12.04 is far more light and stable than the 12.10
<ttoine> and it seems that the nouveau driver is not so bad
<zequence> ttoine: I haven
<zequence> 't tried nouveau very much yet, but I know AMD free drivers are awesome
<zequence> Except, the card gets hot
<zequence> ttoine: I feel 12.04 is a bit lighter too, but I get the feeling they only do serious optimizations for the LTS releases
<ttoine> zequence, I spoke with didrocks. He told me that the main aim for 13.04 is to make Ubuntu and Unity as light as possible for ARM and phones
<ttoine> zequence, do you think it may cause a problem with a A4 or A6 AMD CPU + integrated GPU ? or only with pci cards ?
<scott-work> ttoine: do you have any other items to report regarding helping your friend set up a studio?
 * scott-work is going into a meeting now but will be back in thirty minutes (hopefully)
<ttoine> scott-work, not at all
<ttoine> is it boring ? or anoying ?
<zequence> ttoine: Don't know. PCI is definately a problem. A friend of mine has two in crossfire, and we played some 3D games using the free drivers. All went well, until the cards got overheated
<zequence> I told him not to use the free drivers any more after taht
<zequence> From reading about it, it seemed like the free drivers can't regulate power to the cards, or something like that
<scott-work> ttoine: "is it boring? or anoying?"...is that regarding my meeting? a scheduling meeting for three offices and two plants all across the US is certainly not boring but absolutely frustrating
<scott-work> i'm just now back, btw
<scott-work> part of the trouble is was the EOY and the holidays. we pushed so much work to the shops for the end of year but didn't complete those jobs as we normally would, but now we have the normal january work PLUS the left over from dec.
<scott-work> ttoine: i am curious on how your installation went because i don't think we have enough documented experience with setting up a studio. i am very curious to where the opportunities lie for us to improve
<ttoine> scott-work, oh, no.... my question is it boring or anoying was about your " do you have any other items to report regarding helping your friend set up a studio?" question
<scott-work> i don't find it either boring or annoying, perhaps relieving but disappointing at the same time
<scott-work> i'
<ttoine> scott-work, one of my contact in Nantes, fr, is a guru of video production (live broadcast, films, etc.) and I hope he will help me to do the same for a video production workstation with cinelerra or lightworks
<scott-work> ttoine: that would be incredibly informative :-D  i hope he helps as well
<scott-work> ttoine: have you (or he) tried either blender or kdenlive for video?
<scott-work> ttoine: and which version of cinelerra would you use? i believe there are two version
<ttoine> scott-work, he tries everything. At the moment, he is considering that Open Shot, Blender and Cinellera are the most interessant floss
<ttoine> scott-work, the community one is more stable
<scott-work> ttoine: that is surprsing to hear that he views open shot more interesting that kdenlive
<scott-work> s/that/than
<ttoine> scott-work, he is interested by the open effects framework. too bad this is not supported by cinellera at the moment
<scott-work> is that the ML-whatever it is called ?
<scott-work> MLT
<scott-work> kdenlive uses it as well i believe
<ttoine> scott-work, and he already uses blackmagic gstreamer acceleration pci cards for some live video performance application. Scenic is one of the framework he is using. So for him, Pitivi, wich is based on gstreamer, would be a very good editor if it would be seriously developped
<ttoine> scott-work, by the way, he is a sony vega demonstrator, and he know very well the r&d team of France Television, the french public tv and radio broadcasting company
<ttoine> He knows so much about all that stuff... I hope I can get some of his time for us
<zequence> ttoine: You should interview him about Ubuntu Studio, and put up some stuff. Sounds like a great resource, that guy
<zequence> Or, just the apps he's using.
<ttoine> zequence, yes
<ttoine> we are not living in the same area, but when possible we have a drink a speak about all that
<zequence> ttoine: Actually, we could probably do interviews on each other, since all of us use US for something
<zequence> Would be nice to do that sometime
<zequence> Do a series of interviews with the all the people involved in developing Ubuntu Studio
<scott-work> ttoine: wow. i also hope you get some of his time. that would be incredible to get his feedback/knowledge/experience
<zequence> Interesting link was posted on the jack mail list about a new audio server for Chrome OS, based on jack and pulseaudio https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/chromium-os/chromiumos-design-docs/cras-chromeos-audio-server
<len-1304> ttoine, I have found the  nouveau driver seems to have improved each new release. I do, however, have an older card.
<ttoine> len-1304, I agree. Performance is quite goog now with the nouveau driver. The only difference is that with the nvidia driver, the image seems to look better when working on pictures or watching a film
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-01-16
<ScottL> hello again
<ScottL> zequence, did you want to try to update the g+ ubuntu studio page to make the facebook page?
<zequence> ScottL: Ah, I've kind of forgotten about that. Been so busy with other things. But, I was probably also waiting for you to collect the artwork. I'd like to see what else is available
<zequence> With fb, I kind of just went ahead and updated without any staging. I'd like to stage before implementing. 
<zequence> I should probably not do the final products. I see my work only as a pragmatic short term solution
<zequence> ..as I don't know graphics and how to make the image have quality, not only in design, but also in how it's processed and converted to which ever file format
<ScottL> i've gotten the artwork, i just need to finish a couple of things on it, download from bzr, merge, and push
<ttoine> hello
 * smartboyhw thought it is rare that zequence is away
<smartboyhw> astraljava, so what do ya think?
<astraljava> I'll read that page through first.
<smartboyhw> Good:D
<astraljava> I'm playing email pong with a customer, so it might take a while. :)
<smartboyhw> I hate email pongs:P
<astraljava> Don't get me started...
<smartboyhw> Damn I need to send an email to everyone about Ubuntu QA Classroom sessions, still hasn't decided on the time...
<smartboyhw> Hi scott-work 
<smartboyhw> Haven't "seen" you for 3 weeks!
<scott-work> good morning smartboyhw !  yes, it has been a while
<smartboyhw> scott-work, :D
<smartboyhw> How's life? I know your work is hard these days (read the log yesterday)
<scott-work> you didn't need to throw yourself on your sword in the -release email for the reports, ultimately i believe it to be my responsibility
<smartboyhw> scott-work, good then:D
<smartboyhw> scott-work, actually I found we are the only distro sending these reports aren't we????
<scott-work> smartboyhw: yes, it's been very busy, especially with year's end and a weird mix of work, but it is going okay, i'm just getting frustrated because there are other things (like skills matrix and creating a wiki) that i want, and NEED, to get done and can't seem to get to them
<smartboyhw> Ooh
<scott-work> smartboyhw: just to be clear, if by "reports" you mean "emails to the -release team", then everyone including lubuntu, xubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu, the desktop team, the ux team, unity team, and metric tonne of others have and should be continuing to do so
<scott-work> there were also "team reports" we have done in the past, i am unsure of the status of those, perhaps they are not in flavour anymore
<smartboyhw> But they don't....
<scott-work> "favour"
<scott-work> hmmm, they really should....even if there isn't a meeting anymore
<scott-work> it may be to their own disadvantage to not send things, i view it as a very good forum to update important people and get direct help
<smartboyhw> I think that one day the Ubuntu Release Team will have to call a meeting just to call back those emails....
<smartboyhw> When is 12.04.2 delayed till? till Alpha 2 date right?
<smartboyhw> That will be a BIG problem for Kubuntu and Edubuntu....
<smartboyhw> For us it is simple:D
 * smartboyhw reminds himself to send a testing annoucement of 12.04.2 once the testing week starts
<smartboyhw> scott-work, len-1304 zequence PING
<smartboyhw> I can't find x86 images in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/precise/dvd/current/
<scott-work> interesting. and looking back into the previous (and available) folders, i don't see any there as well
<scott-work> but hopefully your email to the release mail will yield an answer, smartboyhw 
<smartboyhw> :D
<scott-work> i'm not sure it's a kernel issue as per the email to -release. we don't seem to experience the same issue in the logs as mythbuntu and it looks like we are getting the kernel installed into the image without errors
<scott-work> i'm guessing (pure speculation actually) that perhaps out image is being built fine but whatever process eventually publishes the images craps out when it reaches mythbuntu and then never makes it to our i386 image to copy?
<scott-work> again, wild guessing
<scott-work> bah, i'm wrong, but i don't know what the problem actually is
<scott-work> http://kapok.buildd/~buildd/LiveCD/raring/ubuntustudio-dvd/current/livecd.ubuntustudio-dvd.kernel-lowlatency.efi.signed: 2012-12-18 18:40:38 ERROR 404: Not Found.
<scott-work> going home but i'll probably be back on later
<ttoine> falktx, would you be here ?
<falktx> hm?
<falktx> am I not here?
<ttoine> great
<ttoine> falktx, I asked you some questions in the past about jack and muti cpu
<astraljava> I am what I am, therefore I'm here. Am I not?
<ttoine> falktx, maybe you can explain why when I do an export in Ardour or Mixbus, only one cpu core is used ?
<falktx> not according to schrodinger's cat
<falktx> ttoine: because it needs data to be in sync
<falktx> multi-cpu audio processing is very hard to do
<ttoine> and it is not possible with multiple cpu or cores ?
<falktx> even jack doesn't do it
<ttoine> falktx, and what about jackdmp ?
<falktx> same thing
<falktx> jackdmp/jack2 just splits the rt and non-rt threads
<falktx> the audio thread is still just 1
<ttoine> falktx, so it means that every effects, mix, etc... in ardour is done using only one core ?
<ttoine> even when recording or mixing ?
<falktx> can't say for sure, but it's very likely
<falktx> some CPU will of course go to the background threads, other to gui stuff
<ttoine> so having more than 2 cores in not usefull... one for the system, and one for jack...
<falktx> it is useful
<ttoine> why ?
<falktx> apps nowadays have multiple threads
<falktx> usually 3
<falktx> 1 - audio rt thread
<falktx> 2 - background thread for lockless operations
<falktx> 3 - gui thread
<falktx> I bet 90% of audio apps have at least those 3
<ttoine> gui thread can be managed by cairo/opengl/compiz etc. by the gpu, I guess
<falktx> gui painting, not gui thread
<falktx> but it helps, sure
<ttoine> those 3 threads are splitted on the cores by Linux ?
<falktx> I believe so
<falktx> I don't know enough about these details, this is low-level stuff
<ttoine> is there a way to fix rt audio thread on a core, and the other and the system on the other ?
<falktx> afaik, no, the kernel decides that
<ttoine> ok
<ttoine> it means so that in order to have a good performance for mixing, with a lot of tracks and effects, I have to find the better "cores"
<falktx> a high-freq quadcore seems the best option for me now
<ttoine> the matter is that it is very subjective, because Intel and Amd don't have the same instructions sets
<falktx> SSD disks help if you want to read/write a lot of stuff
<falktx> Intel > AMD
<ttoine> of course...
<ttoine> falktx, not in all cases. AMD are very common on high computing
<falktx> well I just dont trust AMD
<ttoine> why ?
<falktx> because of how they manage linux releases
<ttoine> ?
<falktx> it's so much unprofessionalism it's a joke
<falktx> even the actual AMD employes don't like AMD...
<ttoine> you think it is better to use a 32 or a 64 bits linux system ?
<falktx> 64bit of course...
<ttoine> ok
<falktx> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/01/amd-accuses-former-top-employees-of-stealing-over-100000-documents/
<ttoine> maybe working on overclocking would be interesting in order to allow more tracks in Ardour / Mixbus ;-)
<ttoine> falktx, ok. thanks
<ttoine> very strange to see that AMD is often preferred for high power computing
<falktx> well, I just don't like them
<ttoine> you work with them ? or it is just like Ferrari versus Aston Martin, a personnal feeling ?
<falktx> have you seen their graphics drivers?
<falktx> how poor they manage that or don't care?
<ttoine> falktx, yes I agree
<falktx> they made several deals with Microsoft
<falktx> I wouldn't be surprise if the lack of linux support is done on purpose
<ttoine> the nvidia driver is not better...
<falktx> I beg to disagree
<ttoine> maybe for the same purpose. but it is a bit better since valve is working on the Ubuntu version
<falktx> nvidia still has closed versions, but they don't even begin to compare with AMD
<ttoine> nvidia provide a good driver gui. but there are still some bugs with cairo with the closed driver, and this bug isn"t in amd and intel driver
<ttoine> falktx, nvidia driver is not recommanded by the technical support of Mixbus, because of that
<falktx> I could care less about Mixbus, sorry
<falktx> both amd and nvidia have their bugs
<ttoine> don't be sorry...
<ttoine> falktx, maybe it would be interesting to speak with jack developpers to know if jack is optimised for specific intel or amd instructions like 3Dnow!, etc.
<ttoine> and about Mixbus, the bug will the same for Ardour 3
<falktx> ttoine: jack is as much optimized as you compile it to
<ttoine> falktx, so with a amd64 package in Ubuntu repositories or in kxstudio repositories, it is optimized sor Intel or Amd, or any of them ?
<ttoine> I mean, just for common x86 64 bit ?
<falktx> I would need to the packages
<ttoine> ?
<falktx> errr
<falktx> I would need to check the packages
<ttoine> ok
<ttoine> falktx, thanks for you answers. it is always very interesting to chat with you.
<falktx> sure
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-01-17
<ttoine> falktx, sure ? you are modest ;-)
<falktx> "you're welcome" just never sound good to me
<falktx> not a native english person
<ttoine> falktx, like me
<ttoine> falktx, just a last question
<ttoine> I just had a look at cpu frequencies and compared a i7 3.6ghz and A10 3.8ghz... the difference is that the Intel one is 150 â¬ more expensive...
<falktx> that is surely not the only difference
<falktx> doesn't i7 have haskell support?
<falktx> VM extensions?
<ttoine> are the packages optimised for that ?
<falktx> no
<ttoine> ...
<falktx> ubuntu packages can't be fully optimized, or else they wouldn't work for generic, older CPUs
<ttoine> I am just looking at the most cost effective cpu, actually
<ttoine> so maybe an amd at 3.8ghz would be better than an Intel at 3.6....
<falktx> I guess so
<falktx> depends on what you want to do
<ttoine> audio with mixbus...
<falktx> for me, I would read the VM stuff closely
<ttoine> vm for virtual machine ?
<ttoine> I see that the quad core Intel have 8 threads. a quadcore amd has only 4 threads...
<falktx> yes, vm for that
<falktx> my current laptop can't run VMs properly, I hate that
<ttoine> falktx, what kind of laptop is it ?
<falktx> hp compaq
<falktx> cheap old one
<falktx> I don't have money for better
<ttoine> ok, I understand ;-)
<ttoine> My laptop is a second hand thinkpad
<ttoine> I don't have money too for a brand new
<ttoine> well, 1:18 am in my area. more than time to go to sleep
<ttoine> have a goog night / mornig / afternoon ;-)
<falktx> ok, you too
<falktx> cya
<smartboyhw> Hi scott-work 
<scott-work> good morning smartboyhw 
<scott-work> i like cjwatson's email back to you ;)
<smartboyhw> LOL
<smartboyhw> scott-work, I actually asked in #ubuntu-release, then cjwatson said he fixed it a few minutes ago. LOL
<astraljava> I seem to have Contributors' meeting marked on my calendar for this coming Sunday. Is it happening, or is it way outdated markings?
<smartboyhw> Should be way outdated
<smartboyhw> And I will never be there anyway, it's 1:00 AM for me
<astraljava> Ok, thanks. I'll remove all traces of it.
<scott-work> astraljava: you might be like me and sharing a google calendar with ubuntu studio on it listing meetings
<astraljava> scott-work: Actually, now that I looked more closely, it _is_ coming from somewhere else.
<smartboyhw> LOL
<astraljava> It's from Mike's, apparently through Fridge.
<smartboyhw> Actually it IS in the Fridge Calendar
<smartboyhw> Wonder will anyone go and delete it (or change it)
<astraljava> If Google Calendar's UI is to be trusted, Mike could just remove it or change to something that actually works for majority of the team.
<astraljava> But, for now, I won't pay attention to it.
<astraljava> Sorry for the noise, I'm off to sing.
<scott-work> "to sing"? for reals? where at?
<smartboyhw> scott-work, !?
<scott-work> oh, he left. janne had said he was "I'm off to sing." i'm guessing he meant to produce pleasant sound waves emanating from his mouth.
<scott-work> there is a ubuntu community council meeting in #ubuntu-meeting right now for ubuntu studio if any want to attend
<micahg> len-1304: I'm sorry about -settings, I still have to merge back that accidental upload
<scott-work> zequence: i have uploaded to the art-resources bzr branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-resources/art
<scott-work> i'm not entirely happy with how complete it is or with how i've organized, if you find a more intuitive way or a better way, please feel free to change anything
<scott-work> zequence_: did you see above?
<scott-work> or quoted again here: zequence: i have uploaded to the art-resources bzr branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-resources/art [12:40] <scott-work> i'm not entirely happy with how complete it is or with how i've organized, if you find a more intuitive way or a better way, please feel free to change anything
<zequence_> scott-work: Ah, great. I've been away, though it might have not seemed so
<scott-work> heh, i realized that i forgot to add the wallpaper though :/  i'll do that tonight as well
<zequence_> Missed the community council meeting. Need to start using a calendar 
<zequence_> diwic is bringing up some important things on how to set up audio configs on jack devel list and now ubuntu devel list
<zequence> Not too soon
<zequence> Would be good to use a standard, which at least all Debian based uses
<zequence> Yessss!! I got accepted to the network technician education
<zequence> I'm officially starting a career in IT
<zequence> Pretty lame to have such difficulty getting accepted, but the competition was really fierce
<scott-work> congratulations zequence ! 
<zequence> scott-work: Thanks :)
<zequence> I had missed that we need to test the kernels after they are made -propsed
<zequence> proposed*
<zequence> Small matter. Will do that from now on
<astraljava> zequence: Huzzah! Conga-rats!
<zequence> astraljava: Thanks. Been waiting for a positive answer for 5 months now, or so.
<zequence> Will be great to change scenery for a while
<zequence> 6-12 months
<zequence> That's how long the education lasts. Depending on how fast one is at reading thick IT books in English
<zequence> Hope no one bears ill scorn for me, for reading some books about Windows servers :)
<len-1304> No harm done.... 
<zequence> The teachers have zero skills in Linux, and most of the books deal with Windows
<zequence> But, I'll be focusing on Linux as much as possible of course anyway
<len-1304> Windows has _more_ to deal with... seems fair.
<zequence> Very good point
<len-1304> The company I work for uses Windows... because there would be someone to sue if things go wrong.
<len-1304> I don't think we have bought a processing machine with out either us suing the maker or the other way around.
<zequence> I've heard some really freightening stories about companies paying ridiculous amounts of money for proprietary software, which they also need to use on Windows servers. 
<zequence> len-1304: Actually, my sisters husband works for a Post company in Switzerland, and they are wasting millions each year on the wrong setup
<len-1304> I know that any SW change we have gotten costs about 10K minimum.
<len-1304> So the company might supply Windows, but we generally used a Linux boot CD to install it :)
<zequence> hehe
<len-1304> Using dd
<ttoine> and gparted ;-)
<ttoine> zequence, I just missed a happy news, I guess ?
<ttoine> what happend ?
<zequence> ttoine: I got accepted to an education. Network technician. It's basically an education where I get to study for a number of certificates of my own choice. 
<zequence> It's not a very long education, and will ensure that I'll be working in IT, instead of what I've been doing until now - manual labour
<zequence> I'm probably going to continue studies at a later point at the university, but until then, having those certificates will be a good thing to have in the bank
<ttoine> zequence, it is a kind of work and study deal, to become IT technician ?
<ttoine> or you are just student ?
<zequence> ttoine: To get one certificate, you need to read a very big book for it. Then you take a test somehwere. Like, a certificate for Windows Server 2008
<ttoine> ok
<zequence> There's also one called Linux+
<ttoine> ;-)
<ttoine> great. congratulations !
<zequence> Thanks
<ttoine> I hope you will find interesting books !
<zequence> Me too. But, I will read some on Windows too probably. Even if I don't have to.
<zequence> You can actually pay for those tests as a private person too. Costs a bit though. The two benefits of this education is, the tests are for free, and there's someone to ask when you can't understand what you're reading. Except, when you're having trouble with anything dealing with Linux
<ttoine> zequence, but for Linux, there are planty of information on Internet
<ttoine> and I hope you will read some stuff about Windows, there are some interessant things to learn
<ttoine> at least, a lot of thing about what should not be done in IT to be productive and cost effective ;-)
<ttoine> good night everybody. tomorrow, a brand new workstation start to produce music with Ubuntu and Mixbus...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-01-18
<ScottL> hello everyone :)
<falktx_> hello
<micahg> hi ScottL 
<len-1304> ScottL, synfigstudio is relatively small. You could try it. Have you run it on 13.04 alpha to test it?
<len-1304> Hi micahg, Thankyou for updating icons. I saw it download. today on my 13.04 system.
<len-1304> (so you must have uploaded it)
<len-1304> ScottL, with reguard to synfigstudio, it pulls in oss-compat, we would really need to find out if it would break anything sound wise.
<len-1304> ScottL, both with Jack and Pulse.
<ScottL> len-1304, i have tried it, i like it quite a bit better than kdenlive for certain things
<ScottL> synfig uses blines which allows you to spline paths for objects to move, kdenlive doesn't allow that
<len-1304> When it is running, can jack still run?
<ScottL> i want to add it to the graphics/video seeds
<ScottL> i don't think it affects jack or jack affects it at all
<len-1304> Why does it need OSS then?
<ScottL> hmmm, not sure. that is weird
<len-1304> OSS doesn't show up on the depends.
<len-1304> Ah! it is a recomends of libdv-bin. So synfig doesn't use it directly
<ScottL> okay, that makes since. i really haven't even tried audio on synfig. i'm not even sure it does audio at all even :P
<len-1304> libdv includes sample programs for viewing and inserting audio into a dv stream.
<len-1304> I think that so long as the user doesn't use those programs OSS doesn't get used.
<ScottL> a quick google search says sometime aobut synfix and audio, but it doesn't look like it's a very mature audio use though
<ScottL> s/sometime/something
<len-1304> synfig doesn't seem to use Oss though, just a sample program that comes with one of the libs
<len-1304> If the lib comes with OSS sample programs, how old are the sample programs?  :)
<ScottL> hehe, yeah that is a funny consideration
<ScottL> rebooting
<len-1304> CUL
<scott-work> good morning everyone
<smartboyhw> Good evening scott-work 
 * scott-work had a lot of trouble with nickserv this morning :(
<smartboyhw> scott-work, I had a slow bandwidth today, weird
 * scott-work routinely experiences trouble with webchat as well
<smartboyhw> scott-work, LOL
<scott-work> how are you smartboyhw 
<smartboyhw> scott-work, fione
<smartboyhw> s/fione/fine
<scott-work> oh, i saw in -community-team channel that it seems like team reports _are_ still in favor, i was going to start picking those up again
<smartboyhw> scott-work, good:D
<smartboyhw> len-1304, scott-work astraljava  zequence next UDS is in oakland. Wanna join?
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i believe i will be going to this uds again. this makes scott happy :)
<smartboyhw> scott-work, I'm not happy.
<scott-work> i do admit this is very us/center-europe centric and i understand you would be unhappy
<scott-work> there are some very tech heavy asian cities, i'm kinda surprised there hasn't been one in HK or Japan or elsewhere
<smartboyhw> scott-work, yes:*
<smartboyhw> ****
<smartboyhw> scott-work, status report:P
<scott-work> perhaps a bunch of pan-asian people should create a list of proposed cities/hotels and create a referendum (or some other signed document) and politely suggest this to canonical for consideration for the next non-us uds
<smartboyhw> v
<smartboyhw> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-flavor-ubuntustudio.html
<smartboyhw> scott-work, I wouldf
<smartboyhw> We did good in iso and video
<scott-work> i just looked this morning at that and assigned a new batch of work to myself, i plan to get quiet a few things done, we aren't tracking so well at this point
<smartboyhw> scott-work, actually we are the second best along all flavors:P
<scott-work> i noticed that as well on status.ubuntu.com (along with the total falling behind on the burn down chart), makes me wonder if this is a result from skaet being removed
<smartboyhw> scott-work, oh?
<smartboyhw> Weird reason
<scott-work> well, here is how i see it....
<smartboyhw> K
<scott-work> (please realize this is tenuous and i'm probably wrong on a few facts)
<smartboyhw> OK
<scott-work> i don't remember status.ubuntu.com being popular before skaet came, and i believe that she stressed using it as a metric
<scott-work> i don't believe she is leading the releases anymore
<scott-work> and we seem to not be tracking very well
<smartboyhw> scott-work, you're right. One fact IS wrong:P (half of it)
<scott-work> of course this could simply be because people are not updating the blueprints very well without prompting and we are actually tracking _very_ well, just not reporting
<scott-work> oh good, better than i expected ;)
<smartboyhw> Does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseTaskSignup count as skaet still leading the releases?
<smartboyhw> At least one:P
<smartboyhw> scott-work, ^^
<smartboyhw> Clearly though, Adam Conrad is getting the most important jobs
<scott-work> well, i meant more of a "hold the meeting, remind everyone to do stuff"
<smartboyhw> scott-work, ah OK. The problem is, THERE IS NO MEETING
<scott-work> yeah, i suspected adam might be taking a bigger role, i say that because i roomed with last UDS in oakland and we talked quite a bit one night
<smartboyhw> And that IS a problem
<scott-work> well, i think people in important places felt like the meeting was a waste of time for many people with little yield
<scott-work> those people thought that the emails were just fine
<smartboyhw> And they don't send emails
<scott-work> of course, this may be true for the core groups....perhaps not
<smartboyhw> scott-work, time to put in my exam results into LibreOffice Calc:P
<scott-work> hehe, good luck
<smartboyhw> scott-work, actually it's quite good
<smartboyhw> Improvement:D
<scott-work> oh, i meant finding out your final grade, not a comment on libre office ;)
<smartboyhw> scott-work, well I will find it out on 31th Jan
<astraljava> smartboyhw: Thanks, but I don't think I'll have a chance this time.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, oh
<scott-work> smartboyhw: did they say when uds is schedule?
<smartboyhw> scott-work, may
<scott-work> i need to fill out vacation request at work
<scott-work> smartboyhw: dates?
<smartboyhw> Not exactly dates
<astraljava> Unless I'll win in a lottery, I'm most likely gonna have to work.
<smartboyhw> scott-work, Jono Bacon just leaked it at yesterday's community meeting
<smartboyhw> How do I know?
<scott-work> i had asked in the community channel after the community council meeting, plea asked jono, who mentioned may and oakland but no other specifics
<smartboyhw> scott-work, I know exactly as much as you know:P
<scott-work> hehe
<scott-work> i've been rethinking what ubuntu studio's mission and audience should be
<scott-work> i think we can honestly and with integrity strive to be a real option for a recording studio
<smartboyhw> scott-work, :)
<scott-work> i like exploring these things because it also helps create goals with easily definable tasks
<smartboyhw> Yay
<scott-work> this is analogous to if a question is properly defined and structured, then you will have the majority of the answer already defined as well
<zequence> tete_: Hi :)
<tete_> hi
<zequence> So, as I was saying, we're quite a small team. We do everything from writing documentation, selecting software, developing software, kernel maintenance, PR, etc
<zequence> We're currently working off a blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-raring-flavor-ubuntustudio
<zequence> That page shows the blueprints for the coming 13.04 release
<zequence> This involves more than just the coming release https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/topic-flavor-ubuntustudio
<zequence> tete_: How it works is quite simple. If you feel something interests you in particular, or you have ideas, or whatever, you just start working on that. 
<zequence> I'm putting together some developer documentation, but it's not ready yet
<zequence> The idea is we try get more people involved
<tete_> i just wanted to start with creating a new wiki page but it complains that i am not allowed to create that page (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RocksmithUSBCableAndUbuntuStudio?action=edit) 
<zequence> tete_: You're logged in? 
<tete_> jop
<zequence> Did you confirm your email, etc?
<zequence> This is the developer docs I'm working on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DeveloperDocumentation
<tete_> i confirmed the account, yes, and it shows "logout" on the top of the page
<zequence> tete_: I'm not meaning to overwhelm you or anything. Just showing you some pages, so you get a bit of a broader picture of what we do. 
<zequence> hmm
<zequence> tete_: I created it https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RocksmithUSBCableAndUbuntuStudio
<zequence> I don't have special privileges though
<zequence> Just a normal account
<zequence> tete_: I added a link for it on the howto page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/HowTos
<zequence> Refresh your browser to see it
<zequence> Ah, wait..
<zequence> Right, now it's ok
<tete_> thx :)
<tete_> hm but still not allowed to edit 
<zequence> tete_: Try loggin out and in again. May be some weird thing with the account
<tete_> hm no still the same 
<zequence> tete_: I suppose you click on the "edit" button. What is the error message?
<tete_> You are not allowed to edit this page. 
<zequence> tete_: Is your password 8 characters or more?
<tete_> jop
<zequence> Ah, that's not it, anyway
<zequence> tete_: I can't figure out what it is. Seems like someone else had the same problem recently
<zequence> Maybe they've changed something
<tete_> hm ok
<zequence> tete_: There's a small chance you need to start a launchpad page or something. Right now, I'm not able to find a good channel to aks about it. I will want to know why this is not working also, so will check it out
<tete_> brb
<zequence> tete: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/Registration
<zequence> Didn't realize you needed that
<tete> hm i have a launchpad acc. as i post pretty much bug reports for ubuntu and other software 
<tete> will try to login with that 
<tete> hm not working... even with my launchpad account
<zequence> tete: I'm asking around. If I found out what's wrong, I'll let you know :)
<tete> ok 
<zequence> tete: Did you sign the code of conduct?
<zequence> For the launchpad profile
<tete> sorry what do you mean with "sign the code of conduct" ?
<tete> my english is not the best 
<tete> ah
<tete>     2009-07-28
<tete> Signed Ubuntu Code of Conduct:
<tete>     No Sign the Ubuntu Code of Conduct 
<tete> does this make problems? 
<zequence> tete: I don't know. Could be
<zequence> I can't think of anything else right now :)
<tete> ok i will create a pgp cert tomorrow 
<tete> and then sign that code of conduct and if its working, i now what was the problem
<zequence> tete: Anyway, feel free to hang out here. We are all volunteers working with Ubuntu Studio. If you like, you could subscribe to the ubuntu-studio-devel mail list also. And if you feel like helping out, just let us know
<tete> jop
<ttoine> hello
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-01-19
<smartboyhw> Good evening gyys
<smartboyhw> zequence, new raring kernel is on:P
<zequence> smartboyhw: I'm not following :). You installed a new kernel, or you mean there's a new update coming up?
<smartboyhw> zequence, new update:P
<smartboyhw> I thought you was supposed to update the -lowlatency kernel to a new version
<zequence> smartboyhw: We don't update the release version right now. Also, I'm not seeing any bug about it. Which are you referring to?
<smartboyhw> zequence, ah:P  referred kernel= 3.8.0-1
<zequence> smartboyhw: I mean, which bug report are you referring to
<smartboyhw> zequence, you mean a -lowlatency kernel or the new -generic kernel bug?
<zequence> We only deal with bugs for lowlatency
<smartboyhw> zequence, the strange thing is that they don't create one..... They just created it for -ppc and -ti-omap, which made me went ????
<zequence> smartboyhw: Well, it's nothing to worry about anyway. 
<smartboyhw> No we are still NOT getting precise live builds:( (cjwatson is fixing it now I think)
<smartboyhw> I mean for x86
<smartboyhw> zequence, people are asking me if we wanna use 3.2 or 3.5 kernel in 12.04.2...
<zequence> smartboyhw: What people?
<zequence> Asking who?
<zequence> Where?
<smartboyhw> zequence, look at #ubuntu-release (or are you there)
<smartboyhw> ?
<smartboyhw> Asker: cjwatson Answerer: smartboyhw Location: #ubuntu-release
<smartboyhw> 12.04.2 x86 live images are BACK!
<zequence> nice
<zequence> smartboyhw: So, how did your exams go?
<smartboyhw> zequence, quite good
<smartboyhw> With improvement :P
<zequence> That's nice
<smartboyhw> Nicer than I thought!
<zequence> Are you applying for high school next year? I'm guessing you are that age now
<zequence> smartboyhw: What will be your major?
<smartboyhw> zequence, Well we don't have to apply for high school. secondary schools run from Form 1 to Form 6 (12-17)
<smartboyhw> zequence, we have four compulsory subjects
<smartboyhw> Chinese, English, Maths and Liberal Studies
<smartboyhw> 2-4 Electives
<smartboyhw> For electives I will probably choose Physics, Chemistry and ICT (though ICT might be replaced by biology)
<zequence> No programming?
<smartboyhw> zequence, what do you think about http://www.2buntu.com/1286/is-ubuntu-phone-targetting-4k-uhd-video-capturing/ ?
<smartboyhw> zequence, programming is included in ICT
<smartboyhw> Well the Computer Literacy exam was **** this term
<smartboyhw> Almost everybody failed...
<zequence> heh
<zequence> And about the Ubuntu phone, I'll be happy if it is a well working phone once it comes out. I'll probably get myself one
<smartboyhw> zequence, yep...
<smartboyhw> zequence, I want to load it onto my phone (Remark: It is a cheap Samsung Galaxy Pocket(
<zequence> I'm not too concerned with the resolution in the camera. Seems quite adequate already
<smartboyhw> zequence, come on my phone has a 2MP camera (Remember: It's an Android 2.3.6)
<len-1304> zequence, Have you ever played with netjack?
<zequence> len-1304: nope
<zequence> len-1304: I'm getting a bit more organized with testing. Installing all releases, both 32 and 64 bit on different partitions in one machine.
<zequence> LTS, latest stable, and development release. So, 6 installs all and all
<len-1304> Wow, thats a lot.
<len-1304> Are you doing reinstalls all the time or just updates
 * len-1304 asked about netjack over on LAU
<zequence> I'll only be using those 6 for testing, so for the released versions, I'll only be updating. The development release I guess I'll reinstall now and then
<zequence> I also be keeping a user/development install of Ubuntu, where I do all the development work
<zequence> Thinking the last stable is the best for doing that
<zequence> So, 7 installs including that.
<zequence> Time for another install..
<zequence> len-dt: I didn't realize -generic was installed when installing from the 32 bit isos
<zequence> Both 12.04 and 12.10
<zequence> amd64 12.04 only installed -lowlatency
<len-dt> Thats new.
<len-dt> Thtas because there is no PAE any more
<zequence> To clarify, both -generic and -lowlatency were installed from the 32 bit ISOs
<len-dt> Thats still new
<len-dt> They didn't at release.
<zequence> 12.04 has pae, both for -generic, as well as -lowlatency
<len-dt> That would be correct then... except only one kernel should be there
<zequence> Well, worth looking up. I still need to install three more ISOs
<zequence> bbl
<zequence> len-dt: Also raring
<len-dt> Huh.
<len-dt> Found my problem with netjack BTW
<zequence> Both generic and lowlatency when installing the 32bit ISO
<zequence> Haven't read the mail for a while, so I missed what the problem was
<len-dt> I was using jackd 1.9.8 in one machine and 1.9.9.4 on the other
<len-dt> Works fine with 1.9.9.5 on both (kxstudio version for precise)
<zequence> 64bit install of raring failed. md5sum was correct. Retrying making a usb. 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-01-20
<zequence> amd64 raring uninstallable. I think it might be for all ubuntu flavors
<zequence> seems like it's a bug in ubiquity that has to do with a certain amount of pre-existing ubuntu installs on several partitions
<len-dt> Somebody else ran into that too.
<zequence> Yeah, found a bug report for it. Apparently cjwatson was requesting logs from a debug mode install. Will try that now
<zequence> Whenever you do something smart, you find a bug
<zequence> ..or stupid
<zequence> I guess I can go ahead and install with netinstall for now
<zequence> Just not optimal
<zequence> ..if I can find it
<zequence> found it
<zequence> Seems like it's nog ubiquity at all, but the partioner
<zequence> Well, seems like I'm one install short. Annoying
<zequence> gn
<zequence> funny. today the netinstall worked
<zequence> maybe my computer was just being sleepy and confused yesterday, just like me?
<zequence> and ubiquity also worked, but only once. Arrgh, no debug on that!
<ScottL> i added synfigstudio to the graphcis and video seeds. whenever the metas get updated is okay (i think)
<ScottL> ..
<ScottL> micahg, are you going to uds in may? i think i should be going and i look forward to seeing you again
<ScottL> micahg, also, while i'm thinking about it, do you want to discuss a plan for someone else to update the meta files (if you feel comfortable with someone else doing it, that is)
<zequence> I think the best thing would be for one of us to get upload rights, but the question is, how soon would that be realistically possible?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-01-14
<zequence> Finally got my server working again.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-01-17
<holstein> !proaudio
<ubottu> For information on professional audio tools in Ubuntu, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/ProAudioIntro
<Hypnotoad> zequence: Heh, you forgot to s/xubuntu/ubuntustudio/ in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/ubuntustudio-default-settings/view/head:/debian/changelog too.
<zequence> Hypnotoad: Ah. Damn :). 
<zequence> Not sure if that change will fix it either.
<holstein> cub: i gotta run...
<cub> got hold up on the phone
<holstein> zequence: i'll keep quiet over there
<zequence> haha
<holstein> ok.. so i didnt stay quiet.. but i think i stayed out of the way, mostly
<zequence> I really don'
<zequence> I really don't know why someone of us doesn't write a script that does all the talking for us
<zequence> have a problem? no problem - run this script - paste the results
<TheDrums> zequence: The added file?  You can easily test by grabbing a trusty ISO, booting into text mode, dropping the file in, then sudo service lightdm start
<TheDrums> (Booting into text mode = s/quiet splash/text/  after pressing F6, Esc)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-01-19
<cub> Hi zequence, any meeting today in #ubuntu-meeting ? =)
<cub> I know there hasn't been any for a long time, but perhaps it could be useful from time to time now with the upcoming LTS
<zequence> cub: Not much point, when no one is here
<cub> If we booked it people might show up?
<zequence> cub: This cycle, I'm not sure anyone but me is developing
<zequence> NOt much point in having a meeting between 1-3 people
<zequence> Everyone knows what we need to do
<cub> I'm not much of a developer, but would help out where and if I could
<cub> hmm I don't know what needs to be done though
<zequence> There's not much that needs to be done. A lot more that could be done
<cub> on another note, alpha 2 is coming up. Do we test a lot before it's released...or when it's released?
<zequence> We only do betas
<cub> aha
<zequence> testing can be done at any time though
<cub> yeah
<zequence> cub: If you'd like to do something useful, you could check if our live session is fixed with the latest commit to ubuntustudio-defaults
<cub> the latest iso is from the 18th
<zequence> It hasn't been uploaded yet
<zequence> TheDrums gave a hint on how to test it a couple of days ago, on this channel
<zequence> IF you want to have a look at the source, get it with: bzr branch lp:ubuntustudio-default-settings
<cub> ah, I'll take a look. Going to put my daughter to sleep now. :)
<zequence> Too see what changes were made with the last commit, do: bzr diff -r 242
<zequence> the last commit is 243
<TheDrums> (because scrollback is hard.) So if the file name is /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/10-ubuntustudio.conf, just echo the contents you see on bzr into it before first starting lightdm.  To do that, start booting the iso, when you see the little icon at the bottom hit shift, then hit F6 to bring up the boot command line.  After you get that, add 'text' to it and you're good to go.  If you need more than that, I suppose I can take the ...
<TheDrums> ... latest ISO and drop the unreleased default settings package in.
<TheDrums> In case you folks didn't see, Xubuntu is hoping to get xfce4-panel/xfce4-indicator-plugin working with the gtk3 indicator stack, so far everything is working nicely in a PPA.  Also, some new applications are being added to the seed, menulibre, lightdm, and perhaps mugshot, not sure if you wanted to look at or test those.
<zequence> I think I will try to see to that the Ubuntu Studio desktop will be more or less exactly derived from Xubuntu's this cycle, minus some applications that we don't want preinstalled
<zequence> and other obvious details such as theming
<TheDrums> I know you're in the xubuntu channels, but I think I could try and help keep studio in sync, but I personally don't quite have a need for it.
<TheDrums> Think it's more of a bug in darkice with opus notkeeping up.
<TheDrums> Though could try a low latency kernel.
<TheDrums> Delt in #xubuntu pointed out you didn't have the "Additional Drivers" desktop file, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1060543 hopefully software-properties will pick it up, but if not ubuntustudio-default-settings could pick it up from xubuntu-default-settings.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1060543 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Additional Drivers is not discoverable in Quantal" [Critical,Fix released]
<zequence> TheDrums: -lowlatency is in most respects equal to -generic, so there should be no difference.
<zequence> This cycle I'll be trying to merge its code with master, so that Canonical maintains it. The diff between the two kernels will be minimal
<zequence> It is minimal already, however we have a small patch in it, which can be replaced with a kernel config
<zequence> ..which is why it would have been hard to merge it with the ubuntu kernel
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-01-13
<zequence> OvenWerks: The PA bridge, as I've understood it, is quite rudimentary, and is more of an example that could be developed.
<zequence> I'm only aware of it getting the new feature of allowing it to connect to a specified amount of channels
<zequence> But, perhaps someone has done something more with it, I don't know.
<zequence> One could easily check from the code
<cub> Hi people! Not sure if this already been mentioned but I was a bit peaked that Bryan Lunduke installed Ubuntu Studio on a Chromebook: http://www.networkworld.com/article/2867025/opensource-subnet/3-ways-to-run-normal-linux-on-a-chromebook.html
<cub> "Ubuntu Studio required the least post-install tweaking to get a well-behaving system." :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-01-14
<OvenWerks> zequence: The problem I had may have been caused by something else too. In the end, there don't seem to be audible artifacts. I use the PA-jack bridge as the default sound path for all audio on a few machines here for about a year. Everything just works no matter if it is PA or Jack out. As an example it works really well. If I was goin to add anything it would be a setting that allows choosing other system outputs besides 1&2 for those 
<OvenWerks> I have heard there has been more done on jack channel aliases, but I haven't played with it. qjackctl now uses the same aliasing as Jack too.
<zequence> cub: Cool that he chose Ubuntu Studio over other Ubuntu flavors. I'm sure that Ubuntu is easier to get working.
<zequence> I mean, any flavor of Ubuntu
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-01-18
<cub> zequence, I noticed there are different dates for the Project Lead candidacy. http://ubuntustudio.org/2016/01/project-lead-vote-dates/ say 25th of January, but the wiki page says 23rd.
<tzartist> hello. i'd like to thank the developers for their time and effort making this great distro! i'm using it as my main OS both for work and everyday tasks... i'm going to point out a few things which could be better for the next release. first wacom tablet support. it works under gnome but under xfce i can't really customize any buttons on my intuos pen&touch... second smart power management. when i'm watching a movie or something in vlc - the sys
<tzartist> tem thinks that computer is idle and turns off my monitor after 10 min (default settings). i turned off power management settings but it would be nice to have them available if they worked in a smart way. third - i don't know if anything can be done about browser font rendering. i installed restricted extras (ms fonts) but everything is smaller with lots of wasted screen space (e.g. youtube.com, facebook.com) in linux firefox than in windows fi
<tzartist> refox. i suppose that most sites are programmed with ems so they shrink with smaller fonts. but even when i use ms fonts and custom font settings in firefox that should reflect windows experience - still everything is small and ugly. i mean i can manage but i'm trying to do some web development (amongst other things) and it would be nice to be able to experience the web as 99% of other users if nothing else for testing purposes... but generally
<tzartist>  it's really great distro and i'm happy and grateful that such good people exist who will invest their time and energy to create something so useful and share it for free for everyone to use!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-01-20
<sakrecoer_> for some reason, drafts i made on the wordpress cannot be read by cfhowlett... probably drafts are locked to the user who wrote them..
<sakrecoer_> however, we figured it was ok to publish the post for wallpaper contest: https://ubuntustudio.org/2016/01/ubuntustudio-16-04-wallpaper-contest/
<cfhowlett> makes sense.  wordpress is perhaps not so collaborative as we might hope.
<cfhowlett> yep.  confirmed that it is the top link at ubuntustudio.org  /home
<sakrecoer_> \o/
<cfhowlett> I just organized the entries in the submissions folder.  kind of like that lego one ...
<sakrecoer_> yeah! there are many really cool entries...
<cfhowlett> did you know the guy who did that made the "How fast does your computer boot?" video from a few years back?
<sakrecoer_> no?
<sakrecoer_> i'm impressed by this guys produciton on his website (link in his description) https://www.flickr.com/photos/creativelinux/23887169889/in/album-72157663371091936/
<cfhowlett> it was in the last ubuntu showcase.
<sakrecoer_> ok...?
<cfhowlett> I saw.  not exactly "background" but it will certainly appeal to someone
<sakrecoer_> yeah... and also wrong license... :(
<sakrecoer_> "all right reserved"... :/
<cfhowlett> wait what?
<sakrecoer_> but his work is awesome! and he seem to only use FOSS
<sakrecoer_> well, it sais on the page bellow "uploaded on jan.." All rights reserved... but maybe that is just default for CreativeLinux user on flickr?
<cfhowlett> sakrecoer_, I'll remind him of the CC Sharealike license requirement
<cfhowlett> no, I'm "Creative Linux" ...
<sakrecoer_> seems all the photos are displayed with all rights reserved
<cfhowlett> checking now ...
<sakrecoer_> yeah... this one is https://www.flickr.com/photos/creativelinux/24398371081/
<sakrecoer_> they are all... probably just a setting somewhere...
<cfhowlett> yep.  I"ll track it
<sakrecoer_> cool!!! tahkns cfhowlett !! you rock!!!
<zequence> sakrecoer_: I was able to open the edit link. I login with the -website account though. Think it has to do with roles
<zequence> If you only have an author role, you can only change your own stuff
<zequence> The LP team for pr and support does not have full access
<cfhowlett> zequence, !  just the guy I was thinking of ... couple of questions??
<zequence> cfhowlett: Sure
<cfhowlett> 16.04 has 7 wallpapers??  we HAD 14!
<cfhowlett> whut!
<zequence> Let me check
<zequence> They should all be in the lp:ubuntustudio-look branch. I'm getting it now
<zequence> They are all in the source. Don't have 16.04 to try right now
<zequence> Strange, since they are all in the same dir, and nothing has changed for a good while
<cfhowlett> zequence, eh, ok ... next question:  ONE approved ubuntustudio circle?  I see that a new black wordmark was added so I would have thought an alternative circle would also be forthcoming ...
<cfhowlett> I commented out 3 of the 4 versions since only 1 is approved 
<zequence> cfhowlett: No, I realized you had actually put the right circles there
<zequence> I only added a black wordmark
<cfhowlett> ah.  so they are all good then?
<zequence> Yep
<cfhowlett> thanks!  hey have you had a chance to see the incoming contest entries?  some good stuff
<zequence> No, haven't checked
<zequence> The short url didn't work for me
<cfhowlett> yeah, sakreceor made a change that doesn't seem to fly right.  I'll get with him on that.
<zequence> Alright. Looks like things are happening
<cfhowlett> indeed1
<cfhowlett> zequence, hey while I have you ...
<zequence> Awesome. Thanks for making this happen :)
<zequence> Yep
<cfhowlett> can we please have the wordmark + circle options back?  
<zequence> I couldn't find any that we are using right now
<zequence> There's one for the web page, but it's png
<zequence> Zak might have some
<cfhowlett> alright.  I was looking for the new version with no space between ubuntu+studion
<cfhowlett> *studio*
<zequence> Oh, and when I say the web page, I mean the source for the theme, which is actually not published yet
<zequence> Yeah. I'll send an email to Zak and ask him if he can provide us with some stuff
<cfhowlett> ah!  we have new stuff coming!?  sweet!
<cfhowlett> Excellent!  Thank you.
<zequence> cfhowlett: Zak probably has the originals somewhere
<cfhowlett> yep.  I'll reach out to him
<zequence> cfhowlett: I just sent him an email, asking him to send me stuff if he found any
<zequence> If not, we'll need to make new ones
<cfhowlett> alright then.  incremental progress is still progress!
<sakrecoer_> zequence: cfhowlett: yes i messed up the flickr album :( wanted to add the latest addition to the album, but they were already included. so when i pressed the button the album just dissapeared and there was no undo...sorry... but i fixed it, and updated the links on the wiki and the ubuntustudio.org post
<cfhowlett> so we all good now, right?  Accurate information everywhere folks might look?
<sakrecoer_> should be yeah...
<sakrecoer_> the website post didn't get aggregated on planetubuntu, nor any social media...
<sakrecoer_> i'm looking into how to sort that aggregation out as i type..
<cfhowlett> nice.  OK, one last nitpick; please correct my typo: * Dilettantes *           in the invitation
<sakrecoer_> invitation?
<sakrecoer_> ok.. think i found it
<cfhowlett> 2nd paragraph of the contest announcement.  I can't edit it
<sakrecoer_> fixed on the website...
<cfhowlett> perfect.
<sakrecoer_> zequence: i can't find how to get the posts from the website be aggregated to g+, twitter etc...
<sakrecoer_> cfhowlett: you sure it is not spelled Dilettants?
<cfhowlett> well it's a french word, so the dictionary has been a bit confusing.  wait 1
<sakrecoer_> yeah it seems to depend on the dictionary...
<cfhowlett> dilettante is singular so under NORMAL rules, add an S for plural
<cfhowlett> = dilettantes
<sakrecoer_> yeah... but then you have this: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dilettants
<sakrecoer_> :D
<sakrecoer_> lets ask flocculant :)
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: dilettants or dilettantes ? :)
<cfhowlett> sonuva ...
<cfhowlett> sakrecoer_, fun fact: ubuntu has a free culture showcase active since 12/15/15.  10 entries in total.  we already have more entries!
<cfhowlett> https://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-fcs-1604/
<sakrecoer_> cfhowlett: :)
<sakrecoer_> it seems that linuxfoundation post did a lot. i posted the twitt for contributors wanted in GNUsocial and got a few repeats.. or whatever they call it..
<cfhowlett> tweets?  twits?  twats?
<sakrecoer_> haha! yeah.. that
<zequence> sakrecoer_: There is a plugin for aggregating to other sites, but it's not enabled. I do that manually.
<zequence> I usually do twitter, facebook and gplus
<zequence> diaspora is a recent addition. And, I forgot to use it last time
<zequence> So, I would do those, with diaspora - especially for floss art stuff
<sakrecoer_> thanks zequence :) 
<sakrecoer_> i can do all except facebook... i haev no account and i'm affraid i REALLY don't want to bother having a fake one... :D
<sakrecoer_> if my partner sees me logged in, she is going to send me to outerspace before she calls out my inconsistency :D
<sakrecoer_> i make it sound worse then it is, i understand its the same a g+ twitt etc... if no-one else can i will... but i prefer no too :D
<zequence> sakrecoer_: I really think you should create one just for administering the page. You don't need to have any friends, or anything else, you know
<zequence> And, if you think Ubuntu Studio should quit using facebook, you can always make a case and see what the opinions are
<zequence> We have almost 20k likes, so it's an active page
<sakrecoer_> but... but :'( wut abut mi pride and stuff? hahaaha :D
<sakrecoer_> ye... we'll see, if no one else is there, i guess i will have to do like you say..
<sakrecoer_> but i count 9 members in the PR-team...
<sakrecoer_> :p
<zequence> Only you and Jimmy are able to post
<zequence> And, it makes no sense for one guy to post on all but one
<sakrecoer_> ok, you winn :)
<zequence> The rest of the members aren't active. Some should probably not be there anymore
<zequence> Erik Hedekar showed up and wanted to be in teams, but he hasn't done any work while I've been involved for the past 4-5 years or so
<zequence> I guess he thought that since he used to be involved that he should be like an honorary member
<zequence> Actually, there are only 6 members, plus the core team and its two members
<zequence> ttoine has only done work on the web shop that one time during last 4-5 years
<zequence> holstein is no longer involved at all
<sakrecoer_> wut? seriously?
<sakrecoer_> thats sad news...
<sakrecoer_> at least it is news to me.. mike no longer being involved...
<zequence> I guess he didn't announce it or anything. I talked with him about it a few months back
<zequence> IMO, it was for the best
<sakrecoer_> ok.. well.. i couldn't tell, AFAIK he was a delightfull techsupporter...
<zequence> He was often giving people the wrong information though
<sakrecoer_> oh...
<zequence> Well, nothing serious
<sakrecoer_> he helped me much! :) i hope there are no hardfeelings involved and there is, i'd rather stay out of them ...
<sakrecoer_> /if/ there is, i'd rather...
<sakrecoer_> fb... *gasp* they send me a verification code in a stupid caption image over email, i have set my client to dissregard everything html..
<sakrecoer_> haha sorry.. for ranting.
<zequence> I'll be dropping facebook eventually, and do understand why one would prefer to avoid it
<sakrecoer_> you should! life without is so much sweeter ;) i dropped out 2012.. never looked back
<zequence> Well, you did now :D
<zequence> Ubuntu Studio has a bad influence on people
<sakrecoer_> haha! well... that is if i get in!!
<sakrecoer_> i can't find how to make thunderbird display the mail in html again...
<sakrecoer_> and i have to if i want to see the stupid code they sent me...
<sakrecoer_> "having problems loging in? click here to read our password guide" *click* "you must login to continue" :D
<sakrecoer_> i'm in :'(
<sakrecoer_> greeted by the man with the key to everyones privatelife
<sakrecoer_> wow!! there are so many ubuntustudio fanpages!
<sakrecoer_> i'm just going to assume it is this one: https://www.facebook.com/Ubuntustudio/
<sakrecoer_> 14k followers... you bluffer :D
<sakrecoer_> well... now we have a user account that anybody in the PR group can use :D
<sakrecoer_> ... to manage facebook page :D
<zequence> Ah, it was only 14k :)
<zequence> The user account is yours. Page management is done internally in facebook
<sakrecoer_> i know, but i don't plan to use this account for anything else.. hence if a new user comes with same ethics like me, this user could loginto that useracount to manage the page ;)
<msdos1998> hi
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-01-21
<cub> I read that holstein had left. Too busy with other things or unhappy with how things were progressing?
<zequence> cub: You can find him on other channels, such as #opensourcemusicians, if you want to ask him yourself
<zequence> I should probably not speak for him in any case
<cub> Aha I thought he left irc altogether
<cub> so zequence what are you going to do with all the time you get on your hands when stepping down as PL? ;)
<zequence> cub: I'm already kind of busy with other things. Which was my plan last year already. Was going to do what I could until November or so, and then keep the torch on low until I quit
<zequence> I'm always a bit over optimistic, and I didn't get much done during those months leading to November
<zequence> So, not very pleased about that
<zequence> This year will be 100% dedicated to music for me
<cub> nice
<cub> The candidates aren't really rolling in by the masses
<zequence> Nope
<zequence> If no one appears before Monday, Set is it
<cub> seems so
<zequence> cub: You into recording?
<cub> I'm still too much hit'n'run to engage
<cub> nooo I wish I would make some time for music and recording again
<zequence> There are some really great videos on this guys channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpyUGZeMUtOvt57UACw3H2g
<cub> but it's hard
<zequence> Some really cult producer interviews, and lots and lots of gear porn
<zequence> cub: There's a reason why I'm probably never getting children
<cub> hmm I haven't seen that channel. I followed Recording Revolution for a while though, great stuff for home recordings
<zequence> Ok, haven't seen that one. Will look it up
<zequence> Just be aware. Warren Huart always begins with "..hope you're doing marvelously well"
<zequence> Every single time!
<cub> well children are fun too. It's been hard for us for a few years though as my GF is running her own company. You don't get to be sick, on parental leave or vacation running your own 1-person-firm
<cub> haha it's gimmick
<cub> or compulsive..:D
<zequence> I'm kind of leaning on the second option there :)
<cub> oh well, it's already late for an old guy like me. Better get ready for tomorrow..:P G'nite!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-01-22
<sakrecoer_> hi cfhowlett :)
<sakrecoer_> have you thought of a way to let users vote?
<sakrecoer_> http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/ seems to be nice, it is zequence recomendation for PL, should work fine for contest?... there is a public vote option...
<sakrecoer_> or should only the team vote?
<sakrecoer_> hmm... well we still have few weeks to think about it :)
<manifolder> good day
<cfhowlett> greetings manifolder 
<manifolder> I just want to say US is my favourite distro. By a mile
<manifolder> :P
<manifolder> posting from south africa btw
<cfhowlett> manifolder, from SA?  Then should you not say "by a kilometer"?  :)
<manifolder> hahaha yeah but i'm super westernised
<manifolder> anyway how can I contriboot ( I have no real programming xp)
<sakrecoer_> hi manifolder :)
<manifolder> hi
<sakrecoer_> you don't need to be a programmer to contribute
<sakrecoer_> for example, documentation could really need a hand :)
<manifolder> Documentation for what? like Translation?
<sakrecoer_> for example
<sakrecoer_> or by making tutorials
<sakrecoer_> or by haning arround in the IRC channel and the user list to help other users
<sakrecoer_> do you have a Launchpad account?
<manifolder> I can defs do that
<manifolder> no
<sakrecoer_> its a good idea to get one :)
<manifolder> I have a lot of downtime at my office so I can hang around the channel
<manifolder> and I'm a junior network engi so I'm sure I can poke around the wiki and and fill in stuffs
<sakrecoer_> you can create an account here: https://login.launchpad.net/+logi
<sakrecoer_> sorry
<sakrecoer_> https://login.launchpad.net/+login
<sakrecoer_> manifolder: poking arround the wiki would be great!!!
<sakrecoer_> here is the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/
<manifolder> this it? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio
<sakrecoer_> yes :)
<manifolder> awesome
<sakrecoer_> thank you for joining in! :) look arround, try to have fun and don't be affraid to ask :)
<cfhowlett> manifolder, what sakrecoer_ said ... 
<manifolder> I actually do have an ubuntu one login
<sakrecoer_> :) perfect!
<sakrecoer_> are you subscirbed to the maling list?
<manifolder> do you guys make music? have a soundcloud? what do you do with US
<sakrecoer_> i do music and graphics
<manifolder> what kind
<sakrecoer_> this kind :) http://sakrecoer.com
<sakrecoer_> i also use it to operate a little record company: http://basspistol.com
<sakrecoer_> (sorry, no httpS yet :(, i've just been lazy...)
<sakrecoer_> anyways, manifolder, for offtopic chat, we have #ubuntustudio-offtopic :)
<sakrecoer_> no harm done by chatting, but its good to keep clarity here for other users backlog sake :)
<manifolder> I have yet to figure out how to have multiple chats in irssi
<manifolder> sure sure
<sakrecoer_> alt+a number 
<sakrecoer_> or alt+arrowLEFT/arrowRIGHT
<sakrecoer_> ;)
<sakrecoer_> for multiple chats in irssi :)
<sakrecoer_> to switch between... "channel tabs"
<manifolder> thank you based sakrecoer
<manifolder> what music is this 
<manifolder> its tripp
<manifolder> trippy*
<sakrecoer_> you tell me :) i hope it is a subgenre of "goodmusic" :D
<manifolder> lol
<manifolder> ok switching over
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-01-23
<OvenWerks> might be interesting to include paprefs, probably too late already though
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-01-24
<Rosco2> flocculant, Feel free to create the basic structure as you said on email
<Rosco2> Maybe with the testsuites there I am able to add test cases to them?
<flocculant> hi Rosco2 - just about to float off for a bit, but I added one, see if you can add to it 
<flocculant> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/testsuites/384/edit
<flocculant> mmm something is definitely up 
<Rosco2> I get the same oops with that link
<flocculant> ok 
<Rosco2> Clicking around I don't see the testsuite either
<flocculant> I logged out - logged back in with just studio perms
<flocculant> and a whole bunch of stuff is missing from admin 
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/zfxPvQV.png 
<flocculant> is that what you see?
<Rosco2> yes
<Rosco2> I thought I must have been missing somwthing
<flocculant> same if I just use xubuntu-release, if I login with my testcase admin rights - http://i.imgur.com/BEjU4l7.png
<flocculant> no way you're going to be able to administer testsuites/cases with what you get 
<flocculant> I'll grab Nick during the week 
<Rosco2> yeah - might need same rights temporarily
<Rosco2> Otherwise someone else has to maintain the collection
<Rosco2> thanks for clearing up what it is
<flocculant> well - they need to set them up properly
<flocculant> Rosco2: could you go to http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker
<flocculant> do you see the same short list there ?
<Rosco2> Yes - same list
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> if I get anywhere I will mail you
<flocculant> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/350/builds/111025/testcases
<flocculant> ok - so I will populate the LTS Mandatory one now I worked out what was up 
<flocculant> then I'll grab Nick and sort the rest out - so you should be able to create the other testsuites etc
<flocculant> done - noted on the pad which are missing 
<Rosco2> flocculant, Looks good - thanks!
<flocculant> welcome :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-01-16
<OvenWerks> eylul: I am glad not to be a part of the email stuff...
<eylul> OvenWerks: :)
<_SleePer_> Hello all, i am trying to do a teste of UbuntuStudio Zesty on test drive app, and i already download the isos for the cache, and whan i click louch give me de following answer "error preparing virtualization: not enough arguments for format string" can anybody help me?
<eylul> _SleePer_: what do you mean with test drive app? you mean a virtual drive?
<_SleePer_> no, i have a program called test drive from here https://launchpad.net/testdrive
<krytarik> LP bug 1495264.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1495264 in testdrive (Ubuntu) "testdrive does not support virtualbox 5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1495264
<_SleePer_> thks ubottu and krytarik
<krytarik> ubottu is a bot.
<ubottu> Yes, I can confirm that I am a bot. For more information, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
<krytarik> And sure.
<_SleePer_> ok, i am knew on this stuff lol
<_SleePer_> now i am tryng with the kvm but give me another error -_-
<_SleePer_> trying*
<_SleePer_> now give "failed executing command: `/usr/bin/qemu-img create-f qcow2/home/vasco/.cache/testdrive/img/testdrive-disk-kK3Ihy.img Oyher...G`
<_SleePer_> can help me again
<_SleePer_> ?
<krytarik> _SleePer_: I suggest asking questions regarding that tool in #ubuntu-devel - more people who might know and have experience with it.
<_SleePer_> ok, i go to there. thanks
 * OvenWerks wonders if AVLdrums.lv2 will make it into Ubuntu in time for the next release...
 * krytarik greets OvenWerks
<eylul> oh hi
<eylul> _SleePer_: I normally use testdrive, try running the yakkety iso first to make sure it is not the iso that is causing problems but your setup. Just as an idea. 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-01-17
<astraljava> Hey guys. eylul sorry I've been away quite a lot lately. I'll try to keep up with the times better now. :)
<eylul> astraljava: no need to apologize. this is volunteer work. we all do have to put other things into priority from time to time.  nice to see you back through
<OvenWerks> hmm, no one here?
<krytarik> OvenWerks: In 10 mins.
<eylul> yup 
<eylul> in 4 minutes. *goes to dig up the meetingology notes*
<eylul> I'll drop a reminder to the ML
<krytarik> eylul: Please don't.
<eylul> why?
<krytarik> Because 2 mins before start again?
<eylul> yeah just to say we are starting now
<eylul> *shrugs*
<eylul> some people lose track of time
<eylul> #startmeeting "UbuntuStudio weekly check-in"
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan 17 19:31:20 2017 UTC.  The chair is eylul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<OvenWerks> unfortunately I am on my way out da door...
<eylul> ovenwerks is this time not working for you anymore? 
<eylul> #chair krytarik
<meetingology> Current chairs: eylul krytarik
<eylul> I guess this one will be pretty quick if it is just two of us
<krytarik> Yeah.
<eylul> alright so.. 
<eylul> so far I have website, controls update,  new tester, 16.04.2.. I feel like I am missing something
<krytarik> New docs contributor - albeit not there yet.
<eylul> cool
<eylul> alright..  lets start with contributors. then move to other things. 
<eylul> #topic new contributors
<eylul> so we have a tester, and they are active so far, I had a talk with them about using KVM setup. we should in general reroute people to using gnome-boxes or virtualbox if they want to do VM testing
<eylul> or at least gnome-boxes worked fine until a few months ago might have more to say on that after seeing how things go with _SleePer_'s setup
<eylul> did the docs person show up since the initial IRC chat yet?
<krytarik> Yeah, but only to drop off shortly after again.
<krytarik> I.e. no interaction happened since.
<eylul> oh ok. it might be perhaps good policy to redirect people to introduce themselves in ML?
<krytarik> That's overrated and over the top imo.
<eylul> why?
<krytarik> I mean sure, can suggest that - but I personally didn't either, and it might be stumbling block for some other too.
<eylul> oh I am not saying it as a requirement, neither did I
<eylul> just as a, it will be easier for us to get back to you if you can't catch us online way
<eylul> anyway
<eylul> welcome newcomers. :) 
<eylul> alright next topic I suppose ;D
<eylul> #topic website
<eylul> krytarik: you mentioned you are considering contacting the community council about the saga of lost ticket?
<krytarik> Yeah, like suggested in a previous meeting.  And since Set doesn't seem to get back anytime soon..
<eylul> I'll try to talk to sakrecoer again sometime in next period but yes, I think we should pretend at this point that he won't be here at least in next 2 weeks period
<eylul> you probably know where I am going with this.. do you think you could contact the community council?
<krytarik> Since over mail seems to be their prefered of contact, I guess it'd be nice if we could work out a proper mail together.
<eylul> alright
<eylul> ok so you just want to draft that now in the meeting?
<krytarik> Nah, sometime after.
<eylul> ok
<eylul> i do have actually an outline
<eylul> so we can do it after the meeting, or at another time that works better for you :)
<krytarik> Well, if you wish, since it's just the two of us anyway... :P
<eylul> well I find it easier to get things done right after meeting otherwise it becomes this thing to procrastinate :P
<krytarik> So yeah, right after the meeting then.
<eylul> :)
<krytarik> And you send the mail! :P
<eylul> lol alright
<eylul> :)
 * eylul is trying to figure out how to do an action point
<eylul> #action eylul and krytarik will draft the email about the ticket to community council. eylul will send the email
<meetingology> ACTION: eylul and krytarik will draft the email about the ticket to community council. eylul will send the email
<eylul> alright
<eylul> so
<krytarik> \o/
<eylul> :) we actually have an action
<eylul> #topic controls
<eylul> much on this, beyond what is already on ML just a shoutout to Ovenwerks for his work on the controls
<eylul> I know there are differences of opinion on how to achieve best usability of the tool but from what I see there is overall positivity about seeing progress on the project
<eylul> on my side, I think I finally got the wacom setup utility part of the design down to something that can actually be achieved by a single person, so starting to put together a UI mockup for that
<eylul> more on that on next check-in
<eylul> alright anything else on this other than \o/ before we move on to the next topic? (btw I remembered what I forgot) :) 
<krytarik> Nope - nice work on this, you two!
<eylul> :)
<eylul> I am really excited about this. 
<eylul> alright so 
<eylul> #topic 16.04.2
<eylul> krytarik you mentioned the release was delayed. do you know to when?
<krytarik> Nope, that wasn't announced yet.
<eylul> ok
<eylul> can you email the ML or drop it to IRC when/if you see it?.
<eylul> you seem to be better than most of us at keeping track of deadlines on ubuntu end :)
<krytarik> Sure.
<krytarik> (The latter then, that is.)
<eylul> (I assumed so ;D)
<krytarik> :D
<eylul> just tag my name so that I can see it :)
<krytarik> Sure!
<eylul> Ross is probably watching the deadline on his end, but I figure if our tester is around, we can redirect them to use some of their testing time on that. 
<krytarik> Definitely.
<eylul> :) a VR test is better than nothing
<krytarik> Virtual Reality?..
<eylul> VM
<krytarik> lol
<eylul> *giggles*
<eylul> yeah that right there is pretty much indication of how fried my brain is at the moment
 * eylul pointedly not thinking about deadlines
<eylul> ok so.. anything else that needs to be done on that front?
<krytarik> Well, mail to the list when details are there, of course - but other than that, not yet.
<eylul> ok
<eylul> alright
<eylul> so bonus topic the one I forgot, which is not so much more than a squee really
<eylul> #topic krita
<krytarik> !info krita
<ubottu> krita (source: calligra): pixel-based image manipulation program for the Calligra Suite. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:2.9.11-0ubuntu1 (yakkety), package size 8263 kB, installed size 32423 kB
<krytarik> !info krita zesty
<ubottu> krita (source: krita): pixel-based image manipulation program. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:3.1.1+dfsg-1 (zesty), package size 13572 kB, installed size 55024 kB
<eylul> yup
<krytarik> That.
<eylul> essentially
<eylul> for context 1.3.1.1 is the most up to date version at the moment
<eylul> I'll keep an eye to see if krita has a new release between now and then, but even if there is one, and we can't pull it in, this is a good place to be. 
<eylul> also the package is updating regularly which is great to see
<eylul> this does however means, it needs to be tested, before zesty release :)
<eylul> but anyway. \o/ on that.
<eylul> Alright
<eylul> anything else on this topic before we close, and anything else we need to discuss before finalizing this meeting?
<krytarik> Doesn't seem so.
<eylul> alright in that case
<eylul> #topic closing
<eylul> I am a bit worried about my ability to make it to a meeting to tuesday 31st
<eylul> *goes to check something at callendar*
<eylul> actually before the closing
<eylul> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC
<eylul> #topic uploader or lack ther eof
<eylul> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC
<eylul> #topic uploader or lack thereof
<eylul> thanks
<eylul> mt
<krytarik> So a gentle reminder that following the sudden departure of Kaj at the end of last cycle, and no alternatives coming forward yet, we still need a new uploader for our packageset.
<krytarik> Otherwise, we can only get things uploaded through sponsoring.
<eylul> *nods*
<eylul> thanks krytarik
<krytarik> Sure.
<eylul> alright so
<eylul> #topic closing
<eylul> #action next meeting January 31st 19:30UTC (2 weeks from now, same time)
<meetingology> ACTION: next meeting January 31st 19:30UTC (2 weeks from now, same time)
<eylul> #help: eylul needs somebody to run the meeting mid february as she might not be able to make it, or fully make it. 
<krytarik> I guess that'd be me then, in case. >_>
<eylul> :) I'll try to drop by at least for part of it, I just am not sure at the moment so planning contigencies. :)
<eylul> thanks. alright
<eylul> #endmeeting     
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan 17 20:44:02 2017 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntustudio-devel/2017/ubuntustudio-devel.2017-01-17-19.31.moin.txt
<krytarik> eylul: As usual, thanks for running the meeting! :)
<eylul> thank you for being here :)
<krytarik> \o/
<eylul> alright let me quickly email the meeting minutes to ML then shall we draft this email?
<eylul> (and if yes, where shall we draft it?)
<eylul> (it shouldn't take too long)
<krytarik> Uhh, I guess throwing forth and back a one-liner or something should be fine - here or in PM.
<eylul> *cringes* oh-kay
<krytarik> Well, we can create a pad for that too, of course.
<eylul> pad might be better tbh
<eylul> I don't want to have a giant log of us fixing grammar errors on us-devel :D
<krytarik> Sure!
<eylul> can you start one? :)
<krytarik> I'll try!
 * eylul waits
<krytarik> â http://pad.ubuntu.com/geoTruY5t4
<eylul> alright I am there
<OvenWerks> sorry about that. no is not the right answer to "lets go for lunch"
<eylul> lol Ovenwerks. can you come over to the etherpad to help us out?
<eylul> Krytarik and I are stuck over a grammar thing
<eylul> ok nvm we sorted it out
<krytarik> eylul: Ping!  There we go: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2017-January/003998.html
<eylul> lol
<eylul> nice and thanks
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-01-20
<_SleePer_> hello all, one question, any testing apps for using the google drive client on ubuntustudio?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-01-21
<sakrecoer> hello!
<sakrecoer> first of all: my flat and sincere apologies for my absence. i've simply had too much on my workplate. it has affected everything i do, effectively turning me into a workbot.
<sakrecoer> 2nd of all: thank you Eylul and everyone who keeps the ML and the channels alive.
<sakrecoer> i have read most of the threads, though simply not had the time:energy to give any input or feedback.
<eylul> hi sakrecoer!
<sakrecoer> \o 
<sakrecoer> i have to say i'm quite dephased as in what is going on, where i left things off and i'm not too optimist about my schedule getting more flexible unless i quit my job.
<sakrecoer> but it is not completly hopeless in the sense that i am slowly getting my workload in system.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-01-22
<studio-devel864> hai
<studio-devel864> need help to setting wireless in ubuntu studio 16.10, anybody can help me?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-01-17
<marinholana> Hello, my English is not good, so do not be scared. I need help with Calf plugins in Ardor 5. When I try to use them Ardor closes. Has anyone had the same problem? I'm using Ubuntu Studio 17.10.
<marinholana> I meant Ardour
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-01-20
<ljj> Hello
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-01-19
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: with regard to your -controls bug report. Which version of -controls were you using? Is that the one that came with 18.10? or the one from the PPA (that fixes that problem)?
<Eickmeyer> The one in the PPA, but I haven't tested it recently. I'll let you know. Saw your respnse to the bug report.
<OvenWerks> The bug report did not specify the version as anything besides 18.10
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, sorry. I can fix that too, but I'm on the wrong OS at the moment. A few irons in a couple fires right now.
<OvenWerks> actually no the bug fix for the gov was older... 
<OvenWerks> The PPA was to fix double backends
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: that part of things really is a mess. There is still init.d stuff in there as well as systemd stuff
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it works on my system for some reason... probably because intel...
<Eickmeyer> What is it executing on the backend?
<OvenWerks> Huh! thats the problem. There are about 4 things going on two of which are missing
<OvenWerks> we used to have a ubuntustudio script in init.d and it calls ondemand in the same directory which also no longer exists.
<Eickmeyer> Should probably be a systemd call now.
<OvenWerks> yes I have removed the systemd ondemand call and replaced it with ubuntustudio from systemd
<OvenWerks> so that part works... but the part that sets things up from the GUI still uses the initd stuff.
<OvenWerks> (or sets the initd stuff)
<Eickmeyer> Ah, that would explain it, seeing as how that's depricated.
<OvenWerks> The GUI sets it correctly, but does not save the setting correctly
<OvenWerks> The turbo setting uses /etc/default/ubuntustudio we should put governor in there too.
<OvenWerks> In fact we should probably remove cpufrequitil from being a depends all together
<OvenWerks> OK, I will work on that
<Eickmeyer> *thumbs up*
<OvenWerks> Right now the systemd thing calls cpufrequtils to set things Instead it should just directly set things
<OvenWerks> The whole thing was bassed in initd
<OvenWerks> it needs to migrate to fully systemd
<Eickmeyer> That makes sense. Probably built for initd and then didn't get any love for a couple years until you did your magic.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-01-20
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Changelog issue?
<OvenWerks> fixed
<OvenWerks> I've forgotten how to do multi-line entries...
<OvenWerks> who knows what else I have forgotten  ;)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: please install and test since your machine is actually different from mine
<OvenWerks> Hmm, it doesn't show up with apt update yet
<OvenWerks> now it does
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, just did the build before and confirmed that governor settings did not persist. Waiting on new version.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Just checked, still not persisting.
<Eickmeyer> I even installed indicator-cpufreq to verify it's making the change, and it is, but it's not persisting after reboot.
<Eickmeyer> I'll try one more time. Just looked at /etc/default/ubuntustudio and it looks correct in there.
<Eickmeyer> Rebooted, CPU governor is back to performance, and I have not opened -controls. Checked /etc/default/ubuntustudio and governor should be ondemand, but it wasn't set as such at some point.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ^
<OvenWerks> ok.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: is there anything in you log (dmesg)?
<OvenWerks> search turbo
<OvenWerks> I expect: "turbo/boost not available"
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: just did three reboots... guess this is four
<OvenWerks> works fine here
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: can you check if /lib/systemd/ubuntustudio is executable? (ls -l)
<OvenWerks> hmm, it won't be in dmesg but it is in /var/log/syslog search for  Ubuntustudio
<OvenWerks> there should be two lines with a line by root in between with the word turbo in it
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: can you download http://www.ovenwerks.net/paste/ubuntustudio
<OvenWerks> use sudo to put it in /lib/systemd/ubuntustudio (will over write the file there already so you may wish to mv it to ubuntustudio.bak or something
<OvenWerks> sudo chmod +x /lib/systemd/ubuntustudio
<OvenWerks> then send me a file that should appear as /us_log.txt
<OvenWerks> My run with that file looks like: http://www.ovenwerks.net/paste/us_log.txt
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^^
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: In US-installer you have removed the metas and replaced them with setup stuff
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: Oh, I see what happened it doesn't off packages that are already installed :)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Found the problem. I have an /etc/default/cpufrequtils that is setting it.
<Eickmeyer> I need to figure out what package is installing that.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: we used to, but in 18.04 and up that shouldn't work...
<Eickmeyer> Looks like it was -controls that did it. Must be left over?
<OvenWerks> however, it may work because you have and amd?
<Eickmeyer> Doubt it.
<OvenWerks> the intel needs a kernel module to be loaded first and so cpufrequitls runs before that happens and doesn't work
<OvenWerks> in the amd case that kernel module is not needed and so timing is different
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Perhaps, but the file is definitely in the ubuntustudio-controls package. That said, cpufrequtils isn't installed, but could there be something else calling the file?
<OvenWerks> the solution is to rename /etc/rc5.d/S*cpufrequtils to K02cpufrequtils
<OvenWerks> cpufrequtils is a depends for controls
<Eickmeyer> I mean, if the CPU governor is being set a different way (with systemd) then should we just eliminate /etc/default/cpufrequtils from the package?
<OvenWerks> so it is installed unless you have removed it
<OvenWerks> yes
<OvenWerks> I didn't see it there
<OvenWerks> I will do so. (the package shouldn't build then) whatever.
<Eickmeyer> Strange. I just downloaded the source from git and it's definitely there.
<OvenWerks> yes I see it too, but if the package isn't installed it should do nothing
<OvenWerks> The cpufrequtils package
<Eickmeyer> Right.
<OvenWerks> anyway, I will remove it. and reupload
<Eickmeyer> Okay.
<Eickmeyer> There's a million different ways to set the CPU governor. Latest method means using "cpupower frequency-set --governor performance"
<OvenWerks> build pending
<OvenWerks> BY the way this build does not include the patched file above?
<OvenWerks>  http://www.ovenwerks.net/paste/ubuntustudio
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I am using the same method the /lib/systemd/ondemand does
<Eickmeyer> I don't have a /lib/systemd/ondemand
<OvenWerks> set-cpufreq sorry
<Eickmeyer> BTW...
<Eickmeyer> 0 ondemand
<Eickmeyer> 0 ondemand
<Eickmeyer> enabled
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ^ us_log.txt
<OvenWerks> Thats as far as it goes?
<OvenWerks> That tells me that your system does not like me checking for "Intel Boost"
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: Well I could move that part to the end... but I would rather findout what the problem with my code is and fix it.
<Eickmeyer> Right.
<Eickmeyer> Controls has boost grayed-out, so I figured it just didn't care.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ok http://www.ovenwerks.net/paste/ubuntustudio has been changed again to output more logging can you try it?
<OvenWerks> It has to care about it so it doesn't try to set something not there
<OvenWerks> So on boot we check to see if a turbo switch exists then we set it only if it does
<OvenWerks> the 0 in "0 ondemand" is the boost defeat value
<Eickmeyer> Sure, I'll give it a shot.
<OvenWerks> TY
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Exact same result.
<OvenWerks> really... in a terminal what does: logger "Setting system settings"
<OvenWerks> do?
<OvenWerks> maybe logger needs to be installed
<OvenWerks> maybe I should just remove the lines that refer to it
<Eickmeyer> logger gives no response.
<OvenWerks> tail /var/log/syslog
<OvenWerks> no that doesn't show anything here either
<OvenWerks> if it gives no responce that is not the same as an erro though
<Eickmeyer> Bear in mind, I'm running Plasma, so you'll see references to Kubuntu.
<Eickmeyer> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/P9kv5jjXTY/
<OvenWerks> erich: Setting system settings
<OvenWerks> its there
<OvenWerks> did you reboot after putting that file in?
<Eickmeyer> Okay, so that means logger is doing that.
<Eickmeyer> Yes.
<Eickmeyer> I can reboot again and give you the tail from that.
<OvenWerks> and /us_log.txt doesn't even have one more line?  "logged"?
<Eickmeyer> No. The only things it gives are 0 ondemand, blank line, 0 ondemand, blank line, enabled
<OvenWerks> weird... 
<OvenWerks> Ok I have changed the file again removing all the logger commands
<Eickmeyer> Ok
<OvenWerks> Oh, have you reloaded the browser before redownloading the file?
<Eickmeyer> I did just now. Everything is pasted and checked, rebooting.
<Eickmeyer> Interesting... rebooted and now OnDemand is set.
<Eickmeyer> Possible breakthrough.
<OvenWerks> and /us_log.txt?
<Eickmeyer> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/FJ56HdPndD/
<OvenWerks> yup. so that logger command works on my machine and not yours... but using logger from the CL does work on yours.
<OvenWerks> Ok will drop logging anything
<Eickmeyer> Ok, think it's erroring to an exit?
<OvenWerks> I have one more thing to try if you have time.
<Eickmeyer> I have time.
<OvenWerks> another file is ready
<Eickmeyer> Okay, rebooting...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/VrRPPJ8XDz/
<Eickmeyer> brb, gotta move some furniture.
<OvenWerks> grep " root:" /var/log/syslog
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/v5hF4tDpnZ/
<OvenWerks> so it seems it was working but stopping right after?
<OvenWerks> could be
<OvenWerks> All I did was escape a variable ${DESC} instead of $DESC
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-01-14
<Barry[m]> hello room.  after fighting with desktop themes and qt applications, [this article](https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Uniform_look_for_Qt_and_GTK_applications#Using_a_GTK_icon_theme_in_Qt_apps) suggests that for gtk/qt compatibility the `DESKTOP_SESSION` env var should be set to `gnome`...
<Barry[m]> in U.S., it is set to `ubuntustudio`  which I'm thinking could be throwing off qt. thoughts  ??? 
<OvenWerks> The new gnome way of doing things makes using lots of windows a pain.
<OvenWerks> Gnome tends to steal the top bar and force it's own theme on users if they want it or not
<OvenWerks> One of the worst things this does, is make it quite hard to visually see which window has focus
<OvenWerks> QT/xfce styles of doing tings retains the title bar decoration and allows a user to make the focused window have a contrasting colour. Gnome does not.
<Eickmeyer[m]> !support  | freenode_bjmuld[m] 
<ubottu> freenode_bjmuld[m]: This is the Ubuntu Studio development channel. Our official support channel is on #ubuntustudio. Also see http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=335
<Barry[m]> yes, yes, I know
<Barry[m]> but I don't need support, per se
<Eickmeyer[m]> Then what are you trying to accomplish? This issue is not present in 19.10 and we can't backport anything like that to 18.04 without causing errors.
<Eickmeyer[m]> 19.10 includes qt5ct by default.
<Barry[m]> just wanted to ask the devs about whether introducing a new DESKTOP_SESSION could confuse downstream users of that var
<Barry[m]> won't downstream apps inherit icons and themes based on this var?
<Eickmeyer[m]> freenode_bjmuld[m]: All of the devs are in #ubuntustudio-support. That's why it exists. This is for development collaboration only.
<Barry[m]> 10-5
<Barry[m]> lol
<Eickmeyer[m]> freenode_bjmuld[m]: That's not how that works. And downstream? We don't have downstream.
<Barry[m]> 10-4!
<Eickmeyer[m]> Er... #ubuntustudio.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Not #ubuntustudio-support.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Or if you want to use Matrix, https://matrix.to/#/!xmgKQfBvHjTMsDGIBb:matrix.org?via=matrix.org&via=riotchat.de
<Barry[m]> yes yes... I don't mean "downstream" as in source code, but rather applications running in userland which read that var
<Eickmeyer[m]> freenode_bjmuld[m]: You're the first person to report qt issues. We've already solved the problem. The ubuntustudio variable doesn't affect it.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Because XDG sees xfce, not the DESKTOP_SESSION variable.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-01-15
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Ran into an issue while using -installer. It was chugging along, installing packages, then this: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/Njz9whjgqr/
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> ovenwerks the number of buttons vary wildly. it can be no buttons at all, 6 buttons plus a wheel, 8 buttons plus 4 directional buttons...
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> also this script has swapping of screens. https://github.com/azbulutlu/wacomscripts/
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> and yeah undo tends to vary from application to application.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> it is not a terrible idea to have some common sense presets, really, it is just that not sure how you would manage to do that without keeping a large database of possible tablets... which is a... well... can of worms? :))
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> also apologies for delayed answer, it looks like the telegram on my phone wasn't updating for a few days.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> Eickmeyer belatedly 2 plugins to deal with mastodon mirror:
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> https://wordpress.org/support/plugin/autopost-to-mastodon/
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> this is for crossposting to the account
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> https://wordpress.org/plugins/activitypub/ this is an optional addition but makes all of our posts activitypub posts, which means people who use mastodon, pixelfed or peertube or any other type of distributed media that uses activity pub can follow us directly from there. optional but would be cool to add. both of these addons are activ
<studiobot> ely developed, and have been around for more than a year.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: hmm, thats cryptic... line 43 seems to be line 146 of the file... 
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: can you tell if any of the packages have been installed
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Looks like they all had when I ran apt -f install.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Of course, I let it run for a while despite no interface feedback before I xkilled it.
<OvenWerks> but it hung at the end then?
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yes.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Actually, it hung near the end, though the apt process continued in the background.
<OvenWerks> (or perhaps while installing if the bar stopped moving.)
<OvenWerks> What was the last text when it stopped showing activity?
<OvenWerks> (what... no screen shot?)
<OvenWerks> I guess I should ask how you were using it. which os, which cycle, etc
<Eickmeyer[m]> Kubuntu, 20.04 (on the phone right now, standby)
<OvenWerks> Ok, I will test... later maybe.
<OvenWerks> @azbulutlu: The number of buttons does not really matter so long as I cover the maximum. If I try to set a button that doesn't exist, it will fail and that is ok.
<OvenWerks> @azbulutlu: Thank you for the script...
<OvenWerks> @azbulutlu: I will not have a database for tablets beyond what the user has. As the user plugs in each new tablet (or boots with them plugged in) a new entry will be added. The buttons can be pre populated from 1 to 16 (if they exist)... but the user can change them for that device. I am thinking that someone may find it use ful if they have two to put one upside down to have all the buttons 
<OvenWerks> together or put them both 90 degrees out. In such a case any preloaded database would be wrong anyway.
<OvenWerks> an upside down tablet would want button 12 to have the same as a right side up one has for button one etc.
 * OvenWerks goes out to remove some snow.
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: So, yeah, no screen shot. I'll try to do it again.
<OvenWerks> maybe a screeny that also shows the list of packages
<OvenWerks> in any case, the problem seems to be an odd charactor output from apt. I would have thought that shouldn't matter, we just look for certain texts in a line of text at certain positions
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-01-16
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> ovenwerks that is a good point. people wouldn't swap it upside down or write side up back and forth but many tablets are designed to usable upside down for people who use their left hands
<OvenWerks> Lots of snow here...anything addressed to me in the last 12 to 18 hours I don't have backcroll.... my main computer did not reboot after power out, so I have no access to a browser either :P
<OvenWerks> wonko: I looked at the python json lib tools and got totally lost. It looks even harder to use than what we have.
<OvenWerks> wonko: however, the tablet stuff I am working might be easier to do that way.
<OvenWerks> wonko: So far I have been able to store a list as space separated strings but in the long run I would need to do [audio_dev], number, and then do 1_pamarm_a 1_param_b 2_param_a 2_param_b
<OvenWerks> wonko: being able to do Audio { Devices [device_1, parmams], [device_2,params] would be nice
<OvenWerks> wonko: then being able to import each device as a list or list of lists would be great
<OvenWerks> wonko: anyway, with no computer, I won't be doing any work on -controls ( Eickmeyer -installer either) till I get another PS. feel free to pull master and convert the config to json if that will make things easier
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: No worries. As I look at the backscroll, there was only one from @azbulutlu: "ovenwerks that is a good point. people wouldn't swap it upside down or write side up back and forth but many tablets are designed to usable upside down for people who use their left hands"
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: I have the left overs of my old P4 sitting here I will have to see if there is a PS in there for testing, I don't know if it has the power for the i5 or not.
<OvenWerks> but I will order a new one anyway.
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Yeah, that's rolling the dice. I'd order a new one, they're relatively inexpensive. At least it's just the PS.
<OvenWerks> Seems to be
<OvenWerks> no ps fan even
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, that's usually an indicator that the power outage zapped your PS. Hopefully that's all it is.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> with any luck maybe power unit is only thing that got damaged?
<OvenWerks> @azbulutlu: I hope so.
<OvenWerks> thats wierd, I can get out but no other computer in the house can... maybe reboot
<wonko> OvenWerks: Yeah, I have some other shit to deal with that's going to eat up the rest of this week but I'll try to get to that next week. Not sure what you were trying to do there though, you json.load() the file into a dict. It's really that simple. :)
<Eickmeyer[m]> wonko: Language, man. BTW, if I haven't said it lately, thanks for all you're doing. :)
<wonko> Sorry, I'll watch myself. No problem. Glad to help!
<Eickmeyer[m]> If it was up to me, I wouldn't have an issue with the language, but the Ubuntu IRC Guidelines apply. :)
<wonko> Yeah, so I'll be good then. :-P
 * OvenWerks ordered a new case with PS. That gives me more front panel USB ports that are actually wired for USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 as well as audio jacks that are HDA rather than AC97  ;)
<OvenWerks> The case is almost free at $40 CAD
<OvenWerks> It is the same case I used for my son's computer too, so I know it is a reasonable case.
<OvenWerks> wonko: no problem.
<wonko> OvenWerks: $40 is a good price
<OvenWerks> Ya, that is probably about $30 USD
<OvenWerks> They say 10 days :(
<wonko> Boo!
<wonko> I really need to get my workstation sold so I can build a new desktop
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> out of curiosity what time is the feature freeze for 20.04? it looks like computer issues are on global forecast today so I am not sure I will get to the backdrops this weekend. :/
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> if anyone remembers off the top of their head that is...
<studiobot> <teward001> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FocalFossa/ReleaseSchedule
<studiobot> <teward001> Feature Freeze is Feb. 24
<studiobot> <teward001> Feb 27*
<studiobot> <teward001> @azbulutlu
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> thanks very much @teward001
<studiobot> <teward001> yep.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-01-17
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer lv2vst rejected due to license mismatch.  which licensecheck and other license check systems missed.
<studiobot> <teward001> freeze is in a few weeks fix the license issues please
<Eickmeyer[m]> I'm aware, I've been working with RAOF on it.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I'm actually going in a different direction and dropping lv2vst from being a prereq of avldrums.lv2.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I'm just upset that it took a whole month to get to this piont.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @teward001 Go ahead with https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+git/avldrums.lv2
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> It now has the dropped lv2vst requirement.
<studiobot> <teward001> ack
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer had to ask RAOF to double-check my brain, but NACKed.  License mismatch. LGPL-2+ != LGPL-2.1+, fluidsynth files in the source are LGPL-2.1+  (LGPL-2 is Library GPL, LGPL-2.1+ is Lesser GPL.)
<studiobot> <teward001> the files themselves actually *say* LGPL-2.1+
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Oof. My bad.
<studiobot> <teward001> now, except for the two specific files you pointed at in fluidsync's license data which are LGPL-2+ (License GPL), the rest are Lesser GPL 2.1+
<studiobot> <teward001> (those two individual files do differ from the rest of the fluidsynth source GPL)
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I must've glossed-over that. I was trying to be thorough, but I must've missed it. It was over a month ago, so I don't quite remember.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @teward001 Fixed.
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer looking again.  Just a heads up, run `licensecheck` on the package root as well, it'll give you a bunch of insights like this too ;)
<studiobot> <teward001> it's how i caught it and was headscratching
<studiobot> <teward001> checking the rest.
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer E:Unmatched d/copyright lines, {PKGROOT}/robtk is empty.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> You didn't use quilt.
<studiobot> <teward001> ... is there a reason I have to quilt these in?
<studiobot> <teward001> and they're not included in the source pkg already?
<studiobot> <teward001> directly?
<studiobot> <teward001> or is this a package delta?
<teward> if this is added in via a git submodule, but not shipped directly in the package, that could be a problem
<teward> and should probably be packaged separately...
<teward> either that or it's too late for me to be staring at this :/
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: It's a git submodule, but everything is expecting it to be in the robtk directory. I tried including it directly, but then it whined about that not matching the upstream and failed. Using a patch was the only way to get it to work, and to provide the correct version of robtk.
<Eickmeyer[m]> It's statically linked, afaict.
<teward> for the record
<teward> i pulled in RAOF because i needed a second opinion / set of eyes on this
<teward> because i'm not entirely sure this package meets requirements for inclusion at the moment
<teward> and RAOF would be able to spotcheck my thinking
<teward> and ask questions I might not think about :p
<RAOF> Or at least to rubber-duck to!
<teward> yep :P
<teward> also, ewww, statically-linked
<RAOF> Well, built in the source tree of, right?
<teward> RAOF i think the robtk/ dir was populated via a quilt patch to work around dpkg whining about the data not being included.  I can *maybe* think that a debian/rules override could be done, store robtk inside debian/robtk and then copy it into {PACKAGEROOT}/robtk but... not sure if that's package compliant
<teward> (this takes after the nasty evil that nginx has with third party modules... but that's... kiiinda hacky and dirty)
<teward> IF the package won't build unless robtk is present in {ROOT}/robtk at build-time
<RAOF> Sounds like maybe you just need to repack the original tarball?
<studiobot> <teward001> orig tarball's populated from debian/watch
<teward> at least, debian/watch is set to REFER to upstream for the tarball in GH
<RAOF> Or: you *can* have multiple original tarballs, I think?
<RAOF> Yeah, but github clearly isn't providing the original tarball, because it doesn't build.
<teward> RAOF: correct, because GH won't populate the submodules
<RAOF> (presumably because of submodules)
<teward> right
<teward> sooooooooo
<teward> if i'm reading this right it *can* be done
<teward> but we'll need to populate the secondary robtk tarball at upload time
<RAOF> So you can't pull the tarball from github directly.
<RAOF> So you might as well repack.
<teward> ... unless... *checks*
<teward> ... there it is
<teward> https://github.com/x42/robtk/archive/v0.7.1.tar.gz  <-- we could just download this
<teward> and include @ upload time
<teward> which matches the rev the git submodule's referring ot
<studiobot> <teward001> let me putter with this a moment
<studiobot> <teward001> ... i think this worked, let me run this in an sbuild
<RAOF> The right thing to do here *might* be to package robtk separately and patch the build system to work?
<studiobot> <teward001> that would make sense
<Eickmeyer[m]> There you go, RAOF , now you're in with Matrix.
<studiobot> <teward001> if it fails, i figured out how to package robtk in a separate .orig tarball as a supplementary tarball
<studiobot> <teward001> and make sbuild and dpkg-source not whine
<studiobot> <teward001> but i'd like to *avoid* that if we cna.
<RAOF> <Eickmeyer[m] "There you go, RAOF , now you're "> Ta! It did look like that was bridged!
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward001: Yeah, I had no idea how to do that. Are you going to push that back to the git repo?
<Eickmeyer[m]> And, I didn't even know if it could be done.
<Eickmeyer[m]> I just went with what debuild wanted to do.
<studiobot> <teward001> yeah i knew it could be done i just never had to do it.
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: the push back to git would just undo your patch, it wouldn't include the .orig tarball, I had to package that independently
<studiobot> <teward001> which is why RAOF's initial suggestion is still valid, package robtk independently and patch the build system to work
<studiobot> <teward001> because supplemental .orig tarballs need their own review
<studiobot> <teward001> even if licensing matches up... it's a nasty NASTY hack
<studiobot> <teward001> and it sounds like other things use robtk as well based on their upstream git data
<Eickmeyer[m]> That's true. So now, instead of needing lv2vst as a prereq, I need robtk.
<Eickmeyer[m]> I'm not even sure how to package it, tbh. I'll have to mess around with it.
<RAOF> Yup!
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: short form of what I did?  Downloaded the upstream robtk tarball (the submodule diff matches the tarball I pulled), stored that as avldrums.lv2_0.4.1.orig-robtk.tar.gz outside the package root
<studiobot> <teward001> unzipped the tarball into the package
<studiobot> <teward001> and that was picked up automatically by dpkg-source because of the supplemental orig tarball
<studiobot> <teward001> but it's a REAL nasty hack
<studiobot> <teward001> wonder if it'd be something like the linux headers package where all it has is the libraries, since it looks like robtk is *just* libraries
<Eickmeyer[m]> Well, yes, but the static linking is the big problem. I'd have to sift through EVERYTHING to point somewhere else.
<RAOF> Does upstream not ship working tarballs?
<teward> they ship a tarball, but no install afaict
<studiobot> <teward001> yep, no makefile, no install runner, etc.  all statically linked it seems
<RAOF> But you can't build the tarball, because you need to separately check out robtk?
<studiobot> <teward001> RAOF: correct, at least for avldrumls.lv2
<RAOF> Oh. They don't ship a *source* tarball.
<studiobot> <teward001> correct
<studiobot> <teward001> Upstream does not ship a *source* tarball including robtk
<studiobot> <teward001> because it's git submodule loaded
<studiobot> <teward001> and i think different copyright (didn't check license)
<RAOF> *If* this is the only place that wants robtk (for now) then you can just create a source tarball with robtk in it.
<RAOF> You don't need debian/watch to work for that.
<studiobot> <teward001> RAOF: which i just did... supplemental tarball
<RAOF> Manual work can be involved.
<studiobot> <teward001> it's how i got it to build
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: do you have any intention of including any other packages that require robtk for a dep?
<studiobot> <teward001> or is this the only one between now and Release date?
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: This is the only one.
<RAOF> <studiobot "<teward001> RAOF: which i just d"> I'd vaguely prefer a manually repacked tarball, because supplemental tarballs are super rare and hence weird.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Manually repacking would actually be relatively easy.
<studiobot> <teward001> we could do that
<studiobot> <teward001> yep
<Eickmeyer[m]> Then, what do we do about lintian when it warns about no debian/watch file?
<studiobot> <teward001> ignore it
<studiobot> <teward001> maybe?
<RAOF> Correct!
<Eickmeyer[m]> An override then.
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: Or just ignore it, i don't think lack of a debian/watch is going to make a lintian failure
<RAOF> Or you could have a debian/watch file that doesn't download a tarball.
<studiobot> <teward001> debian/watch with just comments on the situation works
<Eickmeyer[m]> That sounds messy, but doable.
<RAOF> (or, from memory, you could *script* tarball creation in debian/watch, but that'd be a stretch goal)
<studiobot> <teward001> *shivers*
<Eickmeyer[m]> Oof.
<studiobot> <teward001> RAOF: i mean... it could be done... but that'd be... well, a headache to say the least XD
<studiobot> <teward001> manually repacking would be easier XD
<Eickmeyer[m]> I'm manually repacking right now. Because... oof.
<RAOF> I don't think it'd be *that* hard, but as I said: stretch goal ð
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward001: I've got it repacked. You're gonna want to completely reclone the repo. The tarball is in pristine-tar.
<Eickmeyer[m]> (I had to redo the repo via --force)
<OvenWerks> teward[m]: using system libs is a wonderful idea.... but never, please, never never ever build an audio plugin (LV1, LV2, VST) any other way but static. Anything else is a crash waiting to happen... generally as part of the best take of the day.
<astraljava> So I just learned I was added as an op here a bit more than a week ago by rww. Cool, cheers! I suppose I should reactivate my presence here better, then. :) 
<astraljava> Maybe someone who's been an op recently could summarize (or point to some source) the standard operation procedures as of late?
<teward> OvenWerks: i hear ya, but we're going to have problems if `robtk` is needed in many different applications.
<teward> if we start getting to that point pretty sure RAOF and others will start questioning why it isn't packaged separately and then just static compiled in at compile time
<teward> that's the main issue there :P
<teward> @Eickmeyer[m] I'll take a look in a bit, i'm in the middle of kicking things at home and bothering Robie Basakl
<OvenWerks> teward: if that can happen that would be ok. What gets used for x42 plugins which are also authored by RG?
<teward> not sure, but i think you just gave yourselfa  research project :P
<teward> unless we want to manually repackage every tarball every time to include robtk BEFORE asking for sponsoring/upload (and thereby requiring you to alter pristine upstream tarball and not have a debian/watch before I get to the package for review/upload), though.
<teward> in which case it'll just add work :)
<OvenWerks> https://packages.ubuntu.com/source/focal/x42-plugins
<teward> well it looks to me like they're repacking the orig tarball themselves
<teward> which is what Eickmeyer just did for the latest headache we're working with :p
<teward> but that'd make for an interesting discussion :p
<teward> *yawns*
<teward> I need coffee
<teward> back in a while
 * OvenWerks is about halfway through his coffee
<OvenWerks> teward: actually what makes more sense in this case is to add avldrums to x42-plugins (at the debian level)
<OvenWerks> for next cycle or whenever
<teward> yes, it does, you can take that up with the Debian Multimedia Team though
<teward> they made a revision to the package 2 weeks ago
<teward> so it may be still within the sanity frame for them to get it included.
<teward> if they update the package in Debian we can request a sync to get it updated in Focal
<teward> which would then make my having to independently review avldrums a moot point
<teward> would probably have more weight coming from you or Eickmeyer with the request rather than me though :p
<Eickmeyer[m]> Actually, teward and OvenWerks , that would be a Ross Gammon thing.
<Eickmeyer[m]>  BUT, this is a more time-sensitive issue than that since this is a backup plan for in the likely event the hydrogen team doesn't get off their butts and release their 1.0 version which is Qt5 as opposed to the current Qt4 version.
<Eickmeyer[m]> I'm uncomfortable with including the 1.0 beta with its warning dialog in an LTS; people will freak out.
<Eickmeyer[m]> So, avldrums.lv2 is a fallback that, at this point, is likely to be used.
<teward> ack
<teward> i'll look when i get enough spare cycles to peek
<teward> E:AtWork
<OvenWerks> yet setbfree is a separate package. interesting.
<dax> astraljava: to clarify: you already had op here, you got an email because core channels (including this one) are supposed to have matching Launchpad groups for their channel ops, but this one didn't, and I needed one for something, so I created it and added y'all :)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: have you ever tried to logout and back in as another user while jack is running? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls/+bug/1860152
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1860152 in ubuntustudio-controls "logout and login as another user gives no sound" [Undecided,New]
<Eickmeyer[m]> No, never tried that.
<Eickmeyer[m]> ï»¿teward, OvenWerks, tsimonq2  : I just prodded the Hydrogen team via github, we'll see what happens. I don't expect much.
<Eickmeyer[m]> ^^^
<Eickmeyer[m]> Oops, wrong window.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-01-18
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: right... sorry
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Also, when you get your new PS, would you mind testing latency with the generic kernel? There are a number of show-stoppers with the lowlatency kernel that have been reported that don't occur with the generic kernel.
<OvenWerks> I have to check my autojack fix first.
<OvenWerks> generic should work fine at 1024 :)
<OvenWerks> To be honest that is what I run most of the time
<Eickmeyer[m]> Ah. Well, then why are we even shipping the lowlatency kernel anymore?
<OvenWerks> with proper monitoring 1024 or higher is fine for recording.
<OvenWerks> if using the computer as a guitar effect or softsynth it is needed
<OvenWerks> for guitar effects I find 128 is maximum I am comfortable with
<OvenWerks> I can handle 256 for softsynth
<OvenWerks> but use 64 or 32 by preference for guitar effects like guitarix
<Eickmeyer[m]> Well, sure, but I'm wondering if the same can be done with the generic kernel. I've been noticing issues with my Nvidia computer and the lowlatency kernel, but we also have people having locking issues when using AMD hardware that don't exist with generic.
<OvenWerks> wow. wonder what liquorix does that is different
<Eickmeyer[m]> (and the kernel team has been helping very little with fixing those issues)
<OvenWerks> that is historical
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, they seem uninterested, so it's an uphill battle.
<OvenWerks> originally Studio got the lowlatency kernel running and the k team took it over once it was going
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, but I'm noticing the .diff between the generic and lowlatency kernels getting bigger.
<OvenWerks> in other words we can make a change to what LL kernel is and pass it to them they will make the change, but they do not have the resources to actually fix it.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Unfortunately, I don't know enough about kernel configs to do anything about it.
<OvenWerks> remeber also that the nvidia driver is a blob
<OvenWerks> same here
<Eickmeyer[m]> Which is why, with the lowlatency optimizations hitting the kernel, if we should even bother anymore.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Rather, I'm wondering if we should even bother anymore.
<OvenWerks> we would need a wiki (unofficial maybe) that gives directions for getting liquoix then.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: without ll or rt we loose credibility as an audio distro
<Eickmeyer[m]> Well, that's because people are stuck in the past where you had to have the patches in the kernel, which hasn't been the case since 2.6, and Torvalds already approved the lowlatency patch, so it should all be in the generic kernel by now.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: the generic kernel if started with the right comandline switches becomes lowlatency. I will (when I have time) play with kernel switchs to see if I can make any difference that way. My son's box has an nvidia card and so far has had no problems.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: do we have documentation on the differences from generic to ll?
<OvenWerks> Maybe we just need to change one of them
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: I did a .diff a while ago, and the diff is pretty big anymore. I might be able to do another one.
<OvenWerks> any way, I have to go for a bit and get my Yf to work.
<OvenWerks> maybe the diff is outdated then
<OvenWerks> I think the original diff was against a 3.* series kernel.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Probably. I'll try to generate a config diff now.
<OvenWerks> When I get back I will have use of my Yf's computer where I started work on autojack.
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Sounds good. Here's the diff: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4SRy8WjpXN/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-01-19
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: ok got that I will compare to liquorix when I get my PS.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: having trouble with getting autojack to stop at session end.
<OvenWerks> The session shutdown does not seem to send a SIGTERM to it.
<OvenWerks> In fact it is not that jackdbus keeps running so much as autojack keeps running.
<OvenWerks> I can manually send SIGTERM and get that to work (or SIGINT) but the session end does not seem to do so.
<Eickmeyer[m]> So, I've got some more bad news: raysession, idjc, jack-mixer, and ardour have been removed from the repos for whatever reason. I've fixed raysession. idjc and jack-mixer look like bitrot/dependence on python 2. Still trying to figure out ardour.
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: Need a new upload of raysession, ready at lp:raysession
<Eickmeyer[m]> (no changes rebuild)
<OvenWerks> gtk2?
<Eickmeyer[m]> No, GTK2 isn't removed. Python2 and Qt4 were removed.
<Eickmeyer[m]> raysession had an old qt4 dep that I fixed.
<OvenWerks> ardour's ./waf maybe then
<Eickmeyer[m]> I don't know. I do know that nothing has been synced from debian regarding it. I might look at the packaging myself and figure out what dep is missing. I'm guessying a python2 thing, but not sure.
<OvenWerks> last I heard there was someone working on changing it to py 3
<Eickmeyer[m]> Well I hope it gets done soon then because if it doesn't, we're up a creek without a paddle.
<OvenWerks> Maybe ubuntu is just not a good platform for  audio...
<OvenWerks> (or any real work)
<Eickmeyer[m]> I'm sure it's just a dependency issue, let's not overreact.
 * OvenWerks is just being grumpy
<OvenWerks> If the py 2 - 3 thing gets done for Ardour it will be A6
<Eickmeyer[m]> How close are we to that? I don't want to ship an LTS without Ardour.
<OvenWerks> not close enough.
<OvenWerks> I don't know if it will be back portable to 5.12 either
<OvenWerks> Someone from arch is working on it
<OvenWerks> :) maybe use the arch package as upstream :)
<Eickmeyer[m]> Possibly. Arch has a different way of packaging things.
<OvenWerks> Two of them I think
<OvenWerks> prebuilt and auto builds as part of install.
<Eickmeyer[m]> The auto build as part of install is an AUR (Arch User Repository) thing. (Former Arch user here)
<Eickmeyer[m]> AUR is unofficial.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Either way, I might be able to reverse-engineer the packaging.
<OvenWerks>  I would also miss idjc
<Eickmeyer[m]> That project hasn't seen any light for nearly 3 years.
<OvenWerks> That doen't on its own, make it broken
<OvenWerks> I think it is the default studio software for Rivendel
<Eickmeyer[m]> The inability to port to Python 3 after so many years makes it broken.
<OvenWerks> the unwillingness of ubuntu to continue to support common still in use libs makes it broken.
<OvenWerks> anyway, it is what it is.
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Does this look like a port: https://github.com/M0Rf30/idjc
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: There's also this, but it looks a little old(er).
<Eickmeyer[m]> https://github.com/radiocicletta/idjc-x
<OvenWerks> The top one has all new file dates.
<OvenWerks> interesting that it has gtk3 on python 2.7
<Eickmeyer[m]> So, it's not python 3. That's the deal-breaker.
<OvenWerks> but he has been working on in the pst two months. It does not use glade. It would be interesting to just run on py 3 and see where it breaks.
<OvenWerks> if theres a  lot I don't have time though.
<OvenWerks> the second link you have there: https://github.com/radiocicletta/idjc-x
<OvenWerks> is python 3
<OvenWerks> the original source forge page does have additions by the original author in 2019
 * OvenWerks notes that there is new versions of software released in 2019 that have upgraded from qt3 to qt4... 
<Eickmeyer[m]> Ok. So, if i take our source package and add the code from that git repo as a patch, we should be good to go.
<OvenWerks> ya the purpose of that repo is to follow tghe original code with the only difference being py 3 instaed of py2
<Eickmeyer[m]> Looks like all of the changes are in the python directory.
<OvenWerks> so everytime there is a change to https://sourceforge.net/p/idjc/code/ci/master/tree/ then https://github.com/radiocicletta/idjc-x will change too.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Well, I'm going to have to take the original code from salsa.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Shouldn't be too hard.
<OvenWerks> Ardour is probably more inportant.
<OvenWerks> but maybe harder.
<OvenWerks> Ardour is just the build system.... but what a build system
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah. As I look at this, I may be doing it backwards for idjc. I should probably clone idjc-x and yeet the debian directory into it and make changes there.
<Eickmeyer[m]> I was thinking a patch from the python3 directory, but it seems like there's too much tied to pygtk2.
<Eickmeyer[m]> But yeah, I really should invest my energy into ardour at this point.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Huh. Already being worked on: https://salsa.debian.org/multimedia-team/ardour
<Eickmeyer[m]> Patched waf to use python3.
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: They just haven't thrown it into testing yet. I guess I'll pull it and at least have it ready to go for an upload, just in case.
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: When you get a chance, and because the upstream at Debian hasn't done anything yet, and it includes a patch that fixes some Ubiquity-related stuff for us, I have updated materia-gtk-theme. I'll need it uploaded. lp:~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/+git/materia-gtk-theme
<Eickmeyer[m]> (the Debian version is 4 versions behind)
<OvenWerks> Huh, it looks like /etc/xdg/autostart/* is going to go away in favour of systemd --user
<OvenWerks> (from gnomes home page... but maybe systemd will get rid of my problem)
<OvenWerks> systemd may be generating modules from xdg/autostart on the fly anyway.
<OvenWerks> (wrongly)
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, that makes sense.
<astraljava> dax: Great, cheers! :)
<teward> Eickmeyer[m]: what all needs uploaded?
<teward> And in what priority?
<teward> I see multiple pings so...
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: raysession, materia-gtk-theme, avldrums.lv2 so far.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Might have ardour soon, but I'm having the worst trouble getting source to build.
<Eickmeyer[m]> afk for a while...
<teward> In that order of priority I will handle things
<teward> Once i drag myself out of bed.
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: Should be simple for raysession as it's basically a no-changes rebuild against Qt5's language handler.
<Eickmeyer[m]> materia is an update, but relatively trivial and just includes newer GTK support than the old one.
<Eickmeyer[m]> avldrums.lv2 is the one that's new.
<teward> rayssession in progress
<teward> pushing that now
<teward> materia is next on the list, link to its code since my scrollback is fubar?
<teward> Eickmeyer[m]: i think there's a Lintian warning on materia, running a local sbuild first to confirm
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: Ok, I didn't see anything warning in the source, so that's news.
<teward> W: materia-gtk-theme source: syntax-error-in-dep5-copyright line 64: Duplicate field copyright.  <--
<teward> does't fail lintian, but it *does* throw a W: class in the lintian build
<teward> NACK on materia as-is until the issue is fixed
<teward> because dep5 is important :p
<Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, that's not a huge issue. I probably did something stupid, I'll have that fixed shortly.
<teward> huge issue, no.  but not compliant :)
<teward> Eickmeyer[m]: did you repack avldrumps.lv2's tarball?
<teward> because....
<teward> pristine-tar says it can't find the orig to build
<teward> which means I'm probably going to have to build the tarball manually
<Eickmeyer[m]> I did. Hang on, it's possible I didn't pristine-tar it.
<Eickmeyer[m]> (fixing Materia right now, just need to tag/push).
<teward> ack
<teward> *goes to eat foods*
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: Materia is now pushed.
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: Did you remember to re-clone avldrums.lv2?
<teward> my packaging directory gets purged every week
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: Reason being, I had to redo the git repo as well.
<teward> of all packages
<teward> it's a fresh clone
<Eickmeyer[m]> Ok.
<teward> so unless your path changed
<teward> i have a 'clean clone'
<teward> though git could be at fault
<teward> *redoes again*
<Eickmeyer[m]> You did also checkout the pristine-tar branch, right?
<teward> ok finally got it working
<Eickmeyer[m]> Let me know because I'll re-push the pristine-tar branch if I have to.
<teward> looks like my script i've been using to force this is expecting XZ'd files
<teward> not gz
<teward> which isn't uncommon now that upstream is using xz everywhere on Debian >.>
<Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, good.
<Eickmeyer[m]> ...
<Eickmeyer[m]> Strange, my repack is a .gz.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Oh... I see what you're saying. ð¤¦ââï¸
<teward> because your repack is a gz and the script(s) I've been writing were relying on the default of XZ d'oh
<teward> but yeah it's fine
<teward> doesn't affect things long-term just an extra step of work
<teward> unrelated
<teward> i've called out doko for not marking that removal bug as affecting raysession
<teward> which it does
<teward> because now raysession has to go through NEW again
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: Same with idjc (which is a dead project as far as I can tell) and Ardour. Ardour is a key application for us, so it HAS to be included, but the removal bug never mentioned Ardour either. That one has me just about livid.
<studiobot> <teward001> is there a replacement?
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: Debian seems to have some stuff in the works in Salsa, but I can't count on that being ready in a month.
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward001: Basically, they have patched WAF to be ported to Python3, but it's failing to build. Somebody put-in a merge request to fix that, so I'm going to borrow the code and see what happens locally.
<teward> does anything else use ardour other than STudio?
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: It's not seeded by anyone else, if that's what you mean. It's a key application for the audio meta.
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: It's additonally an application that OvenWerks has actual code in.
<teward> ok.  i can't say whether it should or shouldn't be accepted with a cherrypicked patch fix but check with the release team to see if they'd OK it when it gets uploaded.
<teward> I don't see any issues with nitpicking a patch into the system for making it build proper, i've donet hat for nginx at times too but still
<teward> Eickmeyer[m]: upload in progress (slow becuase 34M)
<teward> for avldrumms
<teward> materia also uploading
<teward> materia accepted
<teward> still uploading avldrums
<Eickmeyer[m]> ok
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward, OvenWerks : I got ardour to build with Python3, but it's pretty dirty. It spewed a bunch of lintian errors at me, most of which is waf related (no way around that, will have to be overrides for that part).
<teward> > it's pretty dirty
<teward> that's what she said.  *shot*
<teward> sorry i couldn't help it, i needed a giggle :)
<Eickmeyer[m]> Hahahaha
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: I'm getting python-depends-but-no-python-helper from lintian but have no idea how to fix it. Got any ideas?
<teward> do you have a ${python:Depends} in the control file?  Or are you using PYthon 3 (${python3:Depends} is what you need)?
<teward> either way you need to include the Python debhelper plugin probably in your rules calls 
<teward> but i have to look up specifics, and i'm bleh.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Right, it wants dh_python somewhere, but I have no idea where to call it.
<Eickmeyer[m]> But yes, the control file has ${python:Depends} in it.
<teward> OK so you need to drop the pytho ndepends and use python3:depends`dh $@ --with python3 ...`
<teward> OK so you need to drop the pytho ndepends and use python3:depends *
<teward> AND `dh $@ --with python3` and include dh-python3 in the builddeps I think
<teward> but i haven't worked with that in a while.
<teward> I need a nap >.>
