#ubuntu-desktop 2009-01-19
 * pitti hugs seb128, bonjour!
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> hello, how was your skiing week? ;-)
<crevette> hey
<seb128> lut crevette
<crevette> salut seb128
<crevette> does anyone know why I can't post apport report to the launchpad server, I receive a time-out error.
<crevette> the server is down ?
<seb128> crevette: dunno about that
<pitti> seb128: very nice, and I could still do it even after 8 years :)
<seb128> good ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I borrowed some new carving skis, they're really awesome
<didrocks> pitti: lucky man :)
<didrocks> hi everybody!
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: I need some help on gnome-games update. They drop libgnome* dependency, but when adding the lpi, it still depends on it. So, I had a first error : http://paste.ubuntu.com/106848/
<didrocks> well, I added again libgnomeui dependency, regenerate configure and add #include <libgnomeui/gnome-app-helper.h>
<seb128> didrocks: no it doesn't?
<didrocks> really ?
<didrocks> because it builds without the lpi patch without libgnomeui
<didrocks> and adding the lpi patch, I have the first error
<seb128> didrocks: it probably means that the patch needs to be updated to the new code
<didrocks> ok, is there a wiki page to handle the transition ?
<seb128> didrocks: lpi has several apis, you probably need to use the gtkuimanager one now
<seb128> didrocks: launchpad-integration has code example, or look to the other changes
<didrocks> ok, it has been ported, great :)
<didrocks> ok, I will seek for it
<seb128> didrocks: look to the gnome-games lpi changes, most of the games are already using the ui manager api there
<didrocks> seb128: hum? I don't understand. the lpi changes are just a matter of #include <launchpad-integration.h>
<didrocks> and then  <placeholder name='LaunchpadItems'/>"
<didrocks> launchpad_integration_set_sourcepackagename("gnome-games");
<didrocks> launchpad_integration_add_ui (ui, "/MenuBar/HelpMenu/LaunchpadItems");
<didrocks> that's it
<seb128> didrocks: right
<didrocks> and so, some commands have changed in the API?
<seb128> didrocks: no
<didrocks> I'm quite lost ^^
<seb128> didrocks: that api is for application using gtkuimanager
<seb128> didrocks: the game which has the error does launchpad_integration_add_items (gtk_menu_item_get_submenu (((GnomeUIInfo)mainmenu[2]).widget), -1, TRUE, TRUE);
<seb128> didrocks: which is an another api to add a menu item to a standard gtkmenu rather
<didrocks> oh, ok, this game hasn't been transitionned
<didrocks> got it :)
<seb128> well I don't know what upstream did
<seb128> but it seems it has been transitioned
<seb128> they probably moved it to gtkuimanager
<didrocks> ok, but we didn't change the lpi call before, so I have to do it
<seb128> if that's the case you need to do changes similar to the one you just described
<seb128> right
<didrocks> no problem, understood :)
<didrocks> thanks
<huats> morning everyone
<seb128> re
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> hello seb128
<huats> how are you ?
<seb128> huats: good thank you, how are you?
<huats> I am fine too
<huats> :)
<asac> seb128: hey ... found that I had gnome-main-menu upstream bump lying around; uploaded :)
<seb128> asac: ah good thanks ;-)
<asac> seb128: eds new tarball?
<seb128> asac: that should fix the nm changes and build issues ;-)
<asac> or can i sponsor something on top of current version?
<asac> seb128: yeah. seems james_w was eager and fixed the build issues
<asac> before ,)
<asac> seb128: btw, the gnome headers were still needed
<asac> we probably want to foward the patch
<seb128> asac: well, eds uploaded one week as an intrepid update, theorically that should be pocket copied to jaunty if some arches were not taking ages to build
<asac> upstream uses LIBGNOMEUI_MODULE still in gnome_program_init
<seb128> ok
<asac> seb128: hmmm
<asac> seb128: any reason whyt that update didnt include 248705?
<seb128> bug #248705
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248705 in evolution-data-server "Evolution Exchange does not authenticate to Exchange servers with a relative path in the form action, e.g. "owaauth.dll"" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248705
<seb128> asac: I think it's fixed in the new version
<asac> seb128: its committed upstream  ... i wanted to upload it to jaunty first (to get some bake time)
<asac> seb128: ah
<seb128> asac: I don't have an exchange account to try though
<asac> seb128: well ... the same patch landed upstream, so probably it is easy to see (reverse-apply etc)
<asac> i will check
<seb128> asac: it's in 2.24.3 I think, you can check again to be sure
<asac> seb128: hmm ... seems to still apply
<asac> evolution-data-server-2.24.3$ patch -p1 < evolution-data-server_2.24.2-0ubuntu2.debdiff
<asac> (Stripping trailing CRs from patch.)
<asac> patching file debian/patches/70_evolution_exchange_fix.patch
<asac> (i stripped the changelog before obviously)
<asac> anyway. lets pocket copy and work on top of that
<asac> pitti: can you pocket copy? eds from intrepid to jaunty?
<asac> (welcome back btw ;))
<pitti> asac: hi
<asac> hi
<pitti> asac: oh, from -proposed? sure
<seb128> pitti: oh btw I told slangasek to move deskbar-applet nautilus-cd-burner tracker to supported now
<pitti> seb128: great
<seb128> pitti: nautilus-cd-burner is deprecated by brasero, they implement the burn location too now
<pitti> asac: done
<asac> gratias
<seb128> pitti: evolution and evolution-exchange too?
<seb128> bah, evolution didn't build on ia64 and hppa so that will not work
<asac> heh
<pitti> seb128: done
<pitti> screw those :)
<seb128> pitti: oh, you don't need all arches to pocket copy? cool ;-)
<seb128> danke
<asac> seb128: your say: eds exchange fix upload to jaunty or intrepid-proposed (with pocket copy)
<asac> oh
<asac> ?
<seb128> asac: jaunty, I don't want to reset the new version testing only for that change
<seb128> asac: let's get 2.24.3 to intrepid-updates and then do this incremental change, otherwise we delay all the other fixes for yet another week of testing
<asac> seb128: ah ... didnt know that it didnt go to -updates yet ;)
<asac> sure
<asac> mvo: bzr branch lp:app-install-data-ubuntu
<asac> Format <RepositoryFormatKnit1> for lp-46726096:///~ubuntu-core-dev/app-install-data-ubuntu/ubuntu/.bzr is deprecated - please use 'bzr upgrade' to get better performance
<asac> :-P
<asac> mvo: shall i upgrade that?
<mvo> asac: yeah, go for it
<seb128> hey mvo
<mvo> hey seb128
<huats> seb128: did you have a look at the issue I am facing with the gnome-system-monitor ? the libtool stuff
<seb128> huats: no, can you give me the url again?
<huats> seb128: sure
<seb128> I try not working during weekends ;-)
<huats> yeah I know
<huats> and you are right :)
<huats> http://www.reponses.net/ubuntu/gnome-system-monitor_2.24.3-0ubuntu1.dsc
<huats> (I have put everything in that dir)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> huats: the error is because automake get ran during the build
<huats> ok
<seb128> huats: either you should try to make the build use the maintainer mode so autotools are not ran or you should change the autoconf patch by an autoreconf one
<seb128> huats: the build will probably work on a box where automake is not installed, you can try to install it as a workaround
<huats> seb128: thanks
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> brb, trying the new glib version
<huats> seb128: I have to admit that I didn't understand why it failed...
<huats> I'll look closely at the logs looking for automake then...
<asac_> mvo: seems i failed to upgrade it ;)
<asac_> the backup dir already exists and i am too dumb to use lftp to remove it :/
<mvo> asac: ha!
<mvo> grumpf
<mvo> asac: I guess you did not get my /msg ?
<seb128> mvo: do you know what to blame on bug such as bug #313970?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 313970 in poppler "package libpoppler-qt4-3 0.8.7-1ubuntu0.1 failed to install/upgrade: cannot access archive: No such file or directory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/313970
<mvo> seb128: urgs, no - I ask for more information
<seb128> mvo: thanks
<mpt> Does anyone here use DSL with NetworkManager, and have some time to answer a couple of questions about how it's configured? (This is not a support question, I'm working on the NetworkManager design)
<seb128> I don't
 * mpt suspects https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/network-manager-pptp is obsolete
<seb128> mpt: are those questions about dsl options users configure or question about how they use the dialogs?
<asac> mpt: go to connection editor, crewate a dsl connection, fill in username/password, done
<asac> mpt: probing for concentrator is not yet done if thats what you ask
<asac> mpt: and why dont you ping me ;)?
<mpt> asac, though you maintain it, I didn't think you were any more likely to use DSL than anyone else. ;-)
<asac> mpt: but i know how it works
<mpt> asac, the main thing I want to know is what the menu looks like with a pppoe connection
<asac> mpt: can you please talk to dan williams about his plans to update nm applet? i think they are working on rewrite so in the end your time could be wasted ;)
<mpt> could you send me a screenshot?
<asac> mpt: the menu looks exactly as if its a normal wired connection
<asac> (e.g. its beneath the "Wired Device" and is called with whatever name you choose when configuring)
<asac> let me get a screen
<mpt> thanks
<asac> mpt: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/tmp/nm07-dsl.png
<mpt> asac, excellent, thank you
<asac> mpt: you can do that on your own, but just adding a new dsl connection in wizard ;)
<asac> (which would also give you the wizard pages ... which might be worth improvement)
<mpt> asac, why do you have disabled copies of three of them?
<asac> feature wise the idea is to auto probe for pppoe concentrator and only show the dsl connection if thats available (i guess)
<asac> mpt: i have two wired devices and didnt say "this dsl thing is only for eth0 or eth1"
<asac> (which you do by setting the mac address)
<asac> mpt: the one greyed out doesnt have a link (e.g. no cable plugged)
<lool> Does someone know what's wrong with the mono libs?  I have f-spot, beagle and tomboy blocking upgrades after some C# libs were renamed
<lool> Is this blocked on a ftbfs?  waiting for some uploads?
<seb128> lool: try asking directhex on #ubuntu-devel, I think he's working on that
<lool> seb128: thanks
<asac> hmm .. metacity is looping :/
<asac> 99%
<asac> no output for strace ... so seems to do hot-loop ;)
<hggdh> seb128, ping
<seb128> hi hggdh
<hggdh> hi seb128. I opened an upgrade request for libpst (for Evolution & the new plugin pst-importer for Outlook files)
<seb128> ok
<hggdh> seb128, I also packaged libpst-0.6.25
<seb128> ah, that's good
<hggdh> but I am certain I did things wrong somewhere ;-)
<seb128> attach the update to the bug and subscribe the sponsor team to the bug?
<hggdh> it is a brand new package -- Evo needs the libpst from the other fork, not from Debian
<seb128> there is different things named libpst?
<hggdh> no, there are two forks of the original (orphaned) libpst: debian, and www-five-ten-sg.com/libpst
<hggdh> debian's has not really developed; 5-10 has kept on, and now supports Outlook 2007
<hggdh> so Evolution went with it
<hggdh> but I had to radically change the debianisation 5-10 did for libpst
<hggdh> I have noted in the upgrade request I need review
<hggdh> bug 317602
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 317602 in libpst "Please upgrade libpst from upstream at www.five-ten-sg.com/libpst" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/317602
<hggdh> seb128, who is the "sponsor team"?
<seb128> hggdh: ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<seb128> hggdh: the debian and 5-10 versions are abi incompatible?
<seb128> not sure if we should aim at having one version, ie replace the debian version by the new upstream code
<seb128> or rather having different sources
<seb128> the current debian version and the 5-10 version
<hggdh> if we get both, it will not quite work -- debian's does not deal with outlook 2007, 5-20 does
<seb128> we could get both version in the archive that would let evolution use the 5-10 one for example and the other one would still be available for other things which use that
<seb128> but having duplicated code is not the best thing
<hggdh> yes
<hggdh> and debian only provides command-line utilities
<seb128> well, those commands could be used
<seb128> does the 5-10 version has similar commands?
<hggdh> yes, they implement the same commands
<seb128> ok, so basically we should deprecate the debian version
<hggdh> debian's generate one single binary package, readpst; mine generates (so far) 3: readpst, libpst, and libpst-dev
<hggdh> of course, I am still to add in the -dbgs
<seb128> don't
<seb128> we automatically get dbgsym for everything
<hggdh> cool
<hggdh> and I will check compatibility between debian's and 5-10's command-line utilities
<seb128> thanks
<hggdh> oh, and -- I just imported a PST into Evo trunk -- seems to work
<ember> seb128 do you have a second to review if the change is alright about brasero split -> http://pfragoso.org/ubuntu/brasero_0.9.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
<seb128> no, I was about to go
<seb128> I'll have a look later
<ember> ok thanks
<ember> cya!
<pochu> ember: is brasero 0.9.x going to be stable for GNOME 2.26?
<seb128> bye
<pochu> later seb128
<seb128> or ask pochu to have a look to the change ;-)
<pochu> :)
<ember> is likely to be -> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-January/thread.html
<ember> pochu also have a look at the change :p
<pochu> ah, right
<pochu> ok, let me see
<ember> thanks, i have to go i will read it later
<pochu> ember: you want a versioned Depends: brasero-common for brasero
<pochu> probably brasero-common (>= ${source:Version})
<pochu> ember: put the full description in all the packages, then append "this package contains the foo files" after it
<pochu> (at least for brasero-common. For libbrasero* either put it, or put something else, but the current one doesn't describe the package :)
<pochu> ember: I think you want s/libtotem-plparserN/libbrasero-mediaN/ in debian/rules :)
<pochu> ember: you may want to move the manpages to brasero to avoid a lintian warning, but that's not necessary
<pochu> ember: not sure if you want /usr/lib/*.a
<pochu> ember: other than that, looks good to me
<idnzor> hi, i was wondering if someone could help me out with contact information
<idnzor> i wanted to start contributing my user experience expertise to the ubuntu project
<idnzor> i work for a user experience consultancy as a usability analyst, and want to start working outside of work on ubuntu/gnome based projects to give something back to the community
<tedg> idnzor: Great!
<tedg> idnzor: We don't have a formal way to do that yet (sadly, but we're working on it).  But a good thing to check out is the Open Usability Project.
<tedg> idnzor: They do usability analysis and design for open source applications.
<idnzor> hi tedg, thanks for the information
<idnzor> what is it you are currently working on then? in terms of putting in place a formal approach to usability
<tedg> idnzor: Yes, I'm working in the newly formed Desktop Experience team, but one of the problems we have is "newly formed" so we don't have good processes yet :(
<tedg> idnzor: It's definitely something we want to fix.
<idnzor> ok, do you have resources where i could learn a little more about it? wikis etc..
<tedg> idnzor: Sadly, no.  Probably the best is actually Mark's blog: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/
<idnzor> tedg: ah ok, is there a mailing list for the Desktop Experience team?
<tedg> idnzor: Only an internal Canonical one currently.
<idnzor> tedg: ah ok, are you a canonical employee currently?
<tedg> idnzor: Yes, I am.
<Ng> tedg: so I actually kinda meant I was wondering if there's a higher level abstraction above the python-dbus API ;)
<Ng> tedg: just because I was going to knock up a little autossh replacement that listens to NM's connection status, but after a few minutes of reading some python dbus code I decided to do something else instead
<tedg> Ng: Heh, it depends on the API.  There are things like libnotify that don't require any DBus at all, but actually use DBus.
<tedg> Ng: Hmm, that shouldn't be too hard.
<idnzor> tedg: ok, are there any immediate plans to open up the desktop experience team to allow people external to the organisation to contribute?
<Ng> tedg: I'll have another play now, but I was pretty much expecting a oneliner to say "I want events from NM to go to this callback" :)
<tedg> Ng:  vi `which gnome-power-manager-inhibit`
<tedg> idnzor: Yeah, we really want to set up a design.ubuntu.com and do things through there.  But, we're not there yet.
<Ng> tedg: thanks :)
<walters> Ng: have you seen hotssh?
<idnzor> tedg: is there anything you feel the team need in the way of community support at the moment?
<idnzor> tedg: in other words, you need my help :p
<Ng> walters: yeah, I want to just run this inside an existing terminal though (a terminator split, specifically)
<walters> Ng: yeah; i think it'd be cool though if there was hotssh-with-layout or terminator-with-special-ssh-support though
<walters> Ng: how library like is current terminator code?
<tedg> idnzor: I don't have anything specific, but if you took something and made some mockups with some ideas, I'm sure they'd be considered.
<Ng> walters: there's a guy working on a fork at the moment called ssherminator. we're a bit stuck at the moment, but I'm hoping we can make the UI work to fold his stuff back in later
<walters> ah
<tedg> idnzor: In general, we're trying to look at "desktop wide" things instead of application specific.
<tedg> idnzor: So something on that topic would definitely be interesting.
<Ng> walters: our (by which I mean my) code is a bit of a disaster really, I really suck at design, so there's not really any clear interfaces, and the objects peek inside each other too much. I would *love* to get some pointers on what I could be doing better though :)
<walters> Ng: eh, i wouldn't worry about that kind of thing too much; in the end what's important is a good user experience
<walters> Ng: unless it's *really* bad =)
<Ng> walters: I think the suck is limited by it not being a huge amount of code, but absolutely the user experience is the focus, and I'm resolutely refusing to waste lots of time trying to rewrite and making new mistakes :)
<idnzor> tedg: by desktop wide do you mean quite fundamental changes to the desktop experience?
<tedg> idnzor: Yes, across applications.  So things like networking configuration where it's not app specific, but a bunch of apps use networking.
<idnzor> tedg: or just an approach which encompasses all applications under the ubuntu desktop
<tedg> idnzor: That too. :)
<idnzor> tedg: ok, how are you going to look at incorporating usability into this?
<idnzor> tedg: for example, are you looking at using usability testing, or having a more expert approach to design?
<tedg> tedg: We're looking at both.  Expert design to get started, but we want to incorporate user testing also.  We're trying to figure out some way to distribute the user testing, as we have a great community, figuring out ways that they can help.
<idnzor> tedg: i was thinking that. from my experience, remote usability testing does not work any as near as good as co-located usability testing
<dobey> idnzor: how exactly are you looking to contribue? code? design? testing?
<pochu> Ng: the user experience is *awesome*!
<idnzor> well, ideally drive design through usability
<tedg> idnzor: Yeah, that's one of the reasons we were looking at using the LoCo teams in various areas to help.
<tedg> idnzor: seele did some usability testing with her LoCo in Washington D.C. with mixed success.
<dobey> that's a very vague and open answer :)
<idnzor> for example, design and facilitate usability testing, then produce recommendations from that, in the form of analysis and wireframing, for example
<idnzor> any good usability analyst knows when to be vague and open :p
<tedg> idnzor: What timezone are you in?
<idnzor> UK
<idnzor> my work is very much based in the Web
<tedg> idnzor: You might try pinging mpt here tomorrow.  He's in the UK also, so he's probably dinner/asleep right now, but he'd have more information.
<dobey> idnzor: i don't know if you've seen http://betterdesktop.org/ but it's pretty much exactly what you just described (or it was intented to be when I was at Novell and there was a product design team, and there was some semblance of caring about usability)
<dobey> there's also lots of automated testing that can be done, to improve usability, but which doesn't really require users to test (accessibility framework support, for example)
<idnzor> hmmm, i am not sure about the desktop, but only around 10% of accessibility tests can be done automatically on the Web
<idnzor> and as for automatic usability testing, you have to be careful not to conclude anything to broad with it
<dobey> well, you can do regression testing for UI layout following the HIG, pretty easily, with automated scripts
<idnzor> thats right, but it won't tell you if the HIG is right in the first place
<dobey> no
<idnzor> hmmm, but it would be interesting to know where you guys are going with the team desktop experience team
<dobey> but you can't really put an objective measurement on a subjective problem. you can only make somewhat educated guesses at what's good or not :)
<dobey> do you have any development/coding background?
<dobey> a while back, i started working on a suite of tools to help with usability testing and analysis of those tests, but never really got the time to take it to the level i'd like to see it at
<idnzor> well, ideally you should ask the user whats good or not, then there is no guessing involved, only reasoning based on attitudinal and empirical data :D
<dobey> http://launchpad.net/deskscribe if you're interested. i recently just moved it over to launchpad
<idnzor> ok thanks, i will check it out
<dobey> idnzor: yes, well, if you only ask 10 or 100 users, it may or may not be reflective of the opinions of the other million usrs :)
<idnzor> i have development experience
<idnzor> hehe, your are very right :p
<dobey> there are lots of awesome things that i want to see done with deskscribe, but i just haven't had the time to look into getting them done
<dobey> particularly in the area of audio/video recording
<idnzor> i think the betterdesktop.org approach was a good start tho
<dobey> it was
<dobey> it's too bad the ball got dropped
<dobey> but it would be pretty easy to pick up from where it was left off
<dobey> especially if the features i mentioned get added to deskscribe
<dobey> would be very easy to set up a "usability lab" then with a few webcams
<idnzor> the challenge is how to use a large distributed community using the best usability methods available, which all require co-location with participants
<idnzor> thats right, all you need it a few webcams
<dobey> with most modern laptops, you've already got a webcam and mic anyway
<dobey> could very easily do eye tracking, and video recording of facial expressions with that
<idnzor> context is very important though
<dobey> yes, well, mouse movements would be tracked (as deskscribe already does), and the desktop itself would be captured in video as well
<idnzor> and eliciting peoples thoughts
<dobey> similar to the videos you see on betterdesktop.org
<idnzor> thats right, but i think you need a facilitator there
<dobey> sometimes yes
<idnzor> hehe
<dobey> but i think it would be pretty easy to get the community involved if we had scripts on a web site, and the software to do all the hard work
<idnzor> the benefit of facilitated sessions comes in exploring issues that arise during the sessions
<idnzor> but like you say, there is still value in a set up like that
<dobey> yeah
<dobey> but providing a plug-n-play package makes it easy for arbitrary people in the community go out and do usability testing
<idnzor> some companies are offering it as a service on the web. essentially a set up which involves company a proving a script, then people go look at a website and try to complete those tasks in the script on the website
<dobey> and be the facilitator and provoke discussione/etc...
<dobey> yeah
<idnzor> i guess the challenge then comes in the analysis of data
<idnzor> from my experience its better to do 12 well designed testing sessions than 24 heavily discounted ones, discounted in terms or method design
<idnzor> better both in terms of resources used to analyse and quality of the data itself
<dobey> yeah, sure
<idnzor> i think expert based appraoch also has its merits, however
<idnzor> and the model of open source is well suited to it
<idnzor> however, it is something that is done pretty wrong on the whole at the moment
<idnzor> in the way that people, with the best intentions, who develop the UI often are grounded with a heavy technical perspective and not a human factors one
<dobey> sometimes, yes
<idnzor> of course, that was a generalisation :P
 * dobey is a bit well rounded himself
<idnzor> sorry, i only decided to contribute to the community tonight, so my ideas are all over the place at the moment
<dobey> no worries
<dobey> i've been hacking on gnome for 10 years :)
<idnzor> the thing is, for me its best to first understand now developers currently work
<idnzor> they are the ones grinding out the code, and from my experience engaging with the developers is key to pushing UE
<dobey> yeah
<dobey> some can be frighteningly opposed to sanity though :)
<idnzor> yh, you hear some things that make you wonder
<idnzor> 'the users should be intelligent enough, why should i worry about where a button is placed'
<idnzor> 'the user journeys work fine'
<idnzor> i am working through a lot of politics on a project at the moment
<idnzor> the technical guy thinks usability it about getting colours right, hes convinced the system he has set up it fine
<idnzor> but oh well
<idnzor> hehe
<idnzor> enough work woes :p
<seb128> dunno what you guys are discussing but it seems I was right to not start IRC to get some work done ;-)
<dobey> heh
<idnzor> well, i will swing by here again, i posted an email to the mailing list as well
<seb128> idnzor: ah, I noticed your email on the list, good to have people interested by usuability there ;-)
<idnzor> im passionate about it :p
<idnzor> i luckily work in a very good company who really understands UE
<idnzor> only 25 of us that work there but we do some pretty cool stuff
<seb128> "only"
<idnzor> well, compared to the "big guys" :p
<seb128> that's already enough people to do good work ;-)
<idnzor> trying to get into the accessibility side of thigns as well atm
<idnzor> we did some work for the UN recently
<seb128> UN?
<idnzor> we are pretty much one of the best consultancies for that in the world
<idnzor> yh
<idnzor> cool eh
<idnzor> our head of accessibility is uber
<dobey> getting a11y right is hard
<idnzor> we use the web accessibility guidelines, i guess as we mostly focus on web design
<dobey> getting a11y right on the web is even harder :)
<idnzor> we developed the first fully accessible CMS
<idnzor> :D
<dobey> well kudos then
<dobey> hrmm, i think i need to go develop some clean cookware
<idnzor> thanks
<idnzor> anyway, im off
<dobey> later
<idnzor> like i said if i can be of any help to anyone please let me know
<idnzor> my email is on the list....
<Ng> pochu: :D
<seb128> vuntz: there?
<vuntz> seb128: mmh?
<vuntz> seb128: let me rephrase
<vuntz> seb128: no!
<vuntz> :-)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> lut vuntz
<seb128> vuntz: you install gnome-wm.desktop in your distro right? what directory do you use?
<seb128> vuntz: context is bug #316958
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 316958 in gnome-session "gnome-wm is missing a .desktop file" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/316958
<vuntz> seb128: /usr/share/applications/gnome-wm.desktop
<seb128> vuntz: ok, so the bug is right ;-)
<seb128> vuntz: thanks
<vuntz> maybe, didn't read the bug :-)
<seb128> vuntz: it was installed in the autostart directory until now, which seems to work but displays a warning
<vuntz> yeah, autostart is wrong
<vuntz> it's like gnome-panel.desktop
<seb128> vuntz: the bug suggests moving that to the standard directory and to add a nodisplay=true
<vuntz> seb128: use gnome-session 2.25.5!
<vuntz> :-)
<seb128> ;-)
<vuntz> it should have the NoDisplay=True
<seb128> vuntz: while you are here I've an another question
<seb128> vuntz: is gnome-wm an upstream thing still? ;-) the upstream make install doesn't install it
<seb128> vuntz: anyway, the other question is about the desktop,menu specifications
<seb128> hum, wait, I wanted to check something before asking that
<seb128> let's be lazy
<vuntz> seb128: it's upstream, but not installed. In openSUSE, I think we just fix the autotools to install it
<seb128> vuntz: you know how GNOME use or abuse .desktop to add nautilus actions
<seb128> those are .desktop which usually use NoDisplay=true or Hidden=true
<seb128> is that the right way to do this?
<seb128> or is there a way to declare action .desktop, ie things which are not supposed to be menu entries?
<vuntz> seb128: NoDisplay=true is the right way to do it at the moment
<vuntz> it's suboptimal, though
<seb128> vuntz: which means all those are listed in the open with dialog for example
<vuntz> I'd like to bring back support of actions in desktop files, so that you can handle various mime types in a different way in one single desktop file
<seb128> that would be nice, but seems also orthogonal to the open with dialog issue
<huats> seb128: hey
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> I just wanted you to know that I have done the gtksourceview2 and deskbar-applet update too (I just need to test them tomorrow)
<huats> (tomorrow cause I have an issue with my vm right now...)
<huats> (I'll also do the gnome-system-monitor tomorrow...)
<seb128> huats: I did upload gtksourceview2 gedit gvfs nautilus some hours ago
<huats> oh
<seb128> huats: sorry about the gtksourceview2 duplication
<huats> I haven't seen the gtksourceview
<huats> no pb
<seb128> huats: you can do deskbar-applet gnome-system-monitor
<huats> :)
<seb128> and if you want extra ones just ask ;-)
<huats> sure :)
<seb128> didrocks: new gnome-games for you btw
<huats> I will tomorrow :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson: do you want to do the gnome-session new version update? I'm about to sponsor your patch for now
<seb128> huats: cool
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i can do that no problem
<seb128> chrisccoulson: thanks ;-)
<chrisccoulson> which patch was that?
<chrisccoulson> **cant remember**
<seb128> chrisccoulson: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/21247560/gnome-session_2.25.3-0ubuntu2.debdiff
<huats> (and I have seen the new gda and anjuta too... but later once the I will follow your advice of doing main stuffs first :))
<chrisccoulson> ah yes!
<huats> (even if libgda is in main)
<huats> seb128: I got to go now
<huats> talk to you tomorrow
<huats> good night
<seb128> re
<seb128> ok, vt switching seems to crash this box on jaunty
<seb128> chrisccoulson: your gnome-session change doesn't work, I'll not sponsor it ;-)
<seb128> it's a bit late to start debugging but no gnome-wm get started there when using your version
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, that's odd
<chrisccoulson> let me try it again
<chrisccoulson> what iswhat have you got in "/desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager"?
<chrisccoulson> whoops, that doesn't completely make sense
<chrisccoulson> 2 sentences spliced together;)
<seb128> "compiz"
<chrisccoulson> ah, it should say "gnome-wm". that is the default
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-01-20
<seb128> hum, I'm wondering why it's working before your change and not after though
<seb128> does it fallback to something else when it doesn't find gnome-wm to use?
<chrisccoulson> it probably started because it because it was in the autostart folder before
<chrisccoulson> this change moves it away from the autostart folder, as gnome-session doesn't look there for the required services
<seb128> ah right
<chrisccoulson> the launchers for the panel and nautilus, which are required, are all in /usr/share/applications
<seb128> right
<seb128> what is weird is that setting this key to compiz doesn't work
<seb128> but that's probably a compiz bug
<chrisccoulson> compiz needs to ship a launcher with X-GNOME-Provides=windowmanager for it to work
<seb128> it does
<seb128> there is a /usr/share/applications/compiz.desktop
<seb128> and it was working when I switched my config to use compiz
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, not sure why that doesn't work
<seb128> which was before gnome-wm.desktop in the intrepid cycle
<seb128> there might be something in the .desktop that confuses gnome-session
<chrisccoulson> possibly. setting that key to compiz on my intrepid machine seems to work ok
<chrisccoulson> the problem is with that configuration is that both gnome-wm and compiz will be executed at some point
<seb128> why?
<seb128> it should run only what is in the required_component key no?
<chrisccoulson> with the current setup, gnome-wm will always run as it ships in the autostart folder
<seb128> ie, gnome-wm on a default install
<seb128> but compiz if you change the key
<seb128> right, I was speaking about your version
<chrisccoulson> it runs regardless of the gconf key at the moment. or at least it should do i think
<chrisccoulson> ah yeah, it shouldn't do that in the new version
<seb128> I guess I'm one of the only one who changed that key
<seb128> anyway it's getting late
<seb128> I'll reset the key, restart my session and upload your revision if that works correctly
<seb128> we can sort the buggy compiz case later
<seb128> thanks for the work on that!
<chrisccoulson> thanks. i'll try it again here as well just for sanity
<seb128> chrisccoulson: ok, the desktop entries lacks a type= line
<seb128> which breaks the compiz start
<chrisccoulson> ah, that makes sense
<seb128> that's a compiz bug, not a gnome-session one, I'll upload your change and enough work for today ;-)
<seb128> and I'll get mvo to fix the compiz issue tomorrow
<chrisccoulson> thanks for that:)
<chrisccoulson> i've got something i need mvo to do tomorrow too
<seb128> ok, uploaded and enough work for today, bye
<cearle> After completing an upgrade from hardy to intrepid, the gnome Applications main menu is empty.  Suggestions welcome.
<bluesmoke> cearle: rm ~/.config/menus/applications.menu
<cearle> thx bluesmoke. will a restart of gnome recreate the file?
<bluesmoke> no, running alacarte again will
<cearle> aha, alacarte had errors, because there were two "</Menu> <!-- End Applications -->" tags.  Fixed. thx again bluesmoke
<cearle> sorry, more specifically, in /etc/xdg/menues/applications.menu
<slomo> seb128: please sync gstreamer0.10, gst-plugins-base0.10, gst0.10-python and gst-plugins-bad0.10 from debian/experimental later :)
<seb128> slomo: ok
<slomo> seb128: thanks for syncing vala :)
<seb128> thank you for doing the update ;-)
<huats> morning everyone
<didrocks> monring huats, seb128 & slomo :)
<seb128> lut huats didrocks
<huats> morning seb128 and didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: ok, will do the "new new" update tomorrow :)
<seb128> huats: sorry about yesterday evening but my box crashed on vt switch
<seb128> didrocks: you seem to be busy, you still want to do it or should I try to find something easier for you and give that one to somebody else?
<huats> seb128: sorry for what ?
<seb128> huats: dunno if you talked to me on IRC, we were speaking about updates and my box crashed and when I came back you had left, so in case you asked something and I didn't reply
<huats> oh
<huats> not a pb
<huats> I think I just told you that I will do the gnome-system-monitor + deskbar-applet today
<huats> (and I'll add the gnome-keyring too since there is a new available...)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> yes you can
<huats> and that's all :)
<huats> ;)
<huats> seb128: may be I have added something like : and later on I'll tackle the anjuta update (but first the main things)
<huats> and then I think I said good night :)
<huats> so you haven't missed anything important :)
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> seb128: no no. I can handle it now that we discussed yesterday :)
<seb128> I knew there was nothing important, I just didn't want to be rude ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: that's just I have another dinner with framasoft tonight :)
<seb128> didrocks: ok, just ask if you need help updating the lpi change, I'm not sure what I said yesterday was clear
<didrocks> seb128: sorry for the delay :)
<huats> seb128: don't start to be like didrocks please... One to stand if more than enough :)
<seb128> didrocks: that's alright
<didrocks> seb128: it was clear :)
<seb128> huats: being what? slacking?
<seb128> ;-)
 * seb128 runs
<didrocks> :p
<huats> sarcastic :)
<seb128> mvo: hey, your compiz.desktop is not correct, gnome-session refuses to use it because it has no type= key
<mvo> seb128: oh? is that a regression in the jaunty version? or is gnome-session stricter about it now?
<seb128> mvo: not sure, in intrepid gnome-wm.desktop was installed in the autostart directory and always used in fact and I doubt many users change their gconf key to use compiz rather than gnome-wm by default
<seb128> mvo: we did fix this bug yesterday and now the gconf key is respect, and I had compiz set there for some reason (I think I changed it early in intrepid when we didn't have gnome-wm.desktop yet)
<seb128> mvo: anyway setting compiz doesn't work, it complains about the desktop files not being correct due to the lack of type key
<seb128> mvo: I'm too lazy to boot an intrepid box to check if that's gnome-session stricter or if we just didn't notice the bug before ;-)
<vuntz> desktop-file-validate!
<vuntz> (sorry for the interruption :-))
<seb128> vuntz: indeed ;-)
<crevette> hey vuntz
<crevette> hello seb128  didrocks huats  pitti and slomo
<pitti> hey crevette
<huats> hey crevette and vuntz
<seb128> lut crevette
 * seb128 kicks xorg
<seb128> jaunty crashes on user switching, really annoying
<seb128> crevette: btw do you plan to update your nautilus-sendto upgrade to not use universe?
<crevette> seb128, oh yeah I will, sorry, I totally forgot
<seb128> hate hate hate
<seb128> mvo: there? I need your bzr clues ;-)
<mvo> seb128: yes
<mvo> seb128: sorry, I was distracted a bit
<seb128> mvo: $ bzr push
<seb128> bzr: ERROR: No push location known or specified.
<seb128> I did bzr get using the command apt-get source suggested
<seb128> did bzr commit
<seb128> and now try to push the change
<seb128> what is the magic url to get that working again? ;-)
<seb128> couldn't we try to get that working out of the box? ;-)
<crevette> lp:~seb128/yourpackage/ubuntu ?
 * crevette does fumb guess
<mvo> seb128: best is "bzr bind lp:~seb127/../.."
<crevette> dumb
<seb128> crevette: no, I don't own this packaging so it's not on my username space
<seb128> hum
<mvo> (or put it under any ~ you like
<seb128> mvo: that's gnome-desktop that you put under bzr
<mvo> the bzr bind will make it behave like a checkout
<seb128> $ bzr push lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/gnome-desktop/ubuntu
<seb128> Pushed up to revision 7.
<seb128> ok, that apparently worked
<seb128> mvo: can you verify you get that commit on your side?
<mvo> seb128: sure, give me sec
<mvo> $ bzr log|head
<mvo> ------------------------------------------------------------
<mvo> revno: 7
<mvo> committer: seb128 <seb128@seb128-laptop>
<mvo> yeah!
<seb128> mvo: ok thanks
 * mvo hugs seb128
<seb128> would be nice to be able to bzr get and bzr commit and bzr push without having to figure what url to use though
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<seb128> any idea how we could fix that?
<seb128> mvo: ok, next I need to cdbs-edit-patch a patch in this directory, any magic command to do that?
<seb128> or do I need to unpack the source somewhere, work there and copy the patch back?
<mvo> there is now "bzr bd-do"
<mvo> so you run "bzr bd-do 'cdbs-edit-patch patchname'"
<mvo> and it will do all the magic for you
<mvo> you just need to remember when it created a new patch to bzr add it when you are finished
<mvo> seb128: about the url figuring etc> yeah - if we have a standard for this (we are close I think) we can make use of it
<huats> pitti: hello
<huats> thanks for your comment on the gcalctool SRU I asked
<seb128> mvo: ok
<huats> but your last comment isn't very clear to me :( can you explain it to me ?
<pitti> huats: are any/all of the fixed bugs regressions in intrepid, compared to hardy?
<huats> oh, you mean if the bug fixed there were regression from hardy.
<huats> honneslty I don't know now... I can try to investigate...
<huats> pitti: I'll let you know...
<mvo> seb128: compiz fixed
<seb128> mvo: danke
<seb128> mvo: ok, I updated gnome-desktop using bzr, that works but disturbe my workflow a lot, it cleans the build directory which breaks my check abi change thing, I've to untar the source somewhere to read the NEWS and diff the configure to see depends change before starting, etc
<seb128> I'll try to think about how make those tasks easier
<mvo> bzr bd-do (without further arguments) give you a shell
<seb128> lool: is there several xorg locations in debian? wouldn't it be easier to just patch to use the xorg server location in debian rather than build-depending on xorg only for that?
<mvo> in the unpacked tree
<seb128> oh!
<lool> seb128: This is what I noted in the changelog
<lool> seb128: We should patch it to take an AC_ARG_WITH
<mvo> you don't even need to download the tarfile manually, it gets it from the watch file (I love this feature :)
<lool> But I'd rather do this after the move to newer gdm
<seb128> lool: ah, ok, right
<seb128> lool: for ubuntu I just tweaked the configure
<mvo> seb128: it does support hooks too, so you could make the abi checker part of the regular build
<seb128> mvo: right, I noticed, the bd-do trick is a good one ;-)
<mvo> seb128: i.e. you run bzr-builddeb and it does the check automatically
<lool> mvo: What about git?
<mvo> *cough*
<lool> Sorry just kidding
<mvo> g-what?
<mvo> seb128: [HOOKS]
<mvo> pre-build = ./pre-build.sh
<seb128> btw if some people want to give an hand on desktop sponsoring today feel free to grab items on the sponsoring page, I did a bunch but there is still some there
<seb128> mvo: ok, thanks
<seb128> mvo: I'll try to come with an optimized workflow for desktop packages so it's easier to work on those
<mvo> (that can be any command, it supports pre-build, post-build and pre-export hooks
<seb128> mvo: it's not too difficult right now but having to figure what url to use to push changes, how to edit patches, etc is a bit annoying, we should have a clear wiki page about that
<mvo> agreed
<mvo> the nice thing about the hook and integrating stuff like the abi checker into them is that this way they would be run by anyone messing around^W^Wupdating the package
<mvo> but its true, its another tool on top of "debhelper, cdbs, quilt, dpatch" that makes packaging more complex :/
<seb128> having bd-do is a good thing
<seb128> I was copying directories around before
<mvo> seb128: yep, give jame_w a hug if you see him, I love it too
<Tm_T> I think James_w is still sleeping after yesterday
<seb128> what happened yesterday?
<Tm_T> developerweek opening day
<ember> hey
<pochu> hi ember
<pochu> ember: did you read my review?
<ember> yes i did, thanks
<huats> pochu: so that you know, I'll take care of the anjuta update
<huats> I am just doing before some main stuffs (as recommended by seb)
<pochu> huats: alright, let me know if you need anything
<huats> pochu: sure :)
<pochu> (including sponsorship) ;)
<huats> thanks
<huats> ;)
<pochu> yw :)
<huats> seb128: I just gave a look at the libgda update (needed for the anjuta one...), and it requires sqlite >= 3.6.0 (the last stable availble upstream is 3.6.10), while on ubuntu/debian we are stuck no 3.5.9... do you know if it will be updated ?
<seb128> no idea about that one
<seb128> I think fta was looking at that too some time ago maybe try asking him about the update
<huats> because I fear that it is blocking...
<huats> fta: hey :)
<huats> fta: any idea of the status of the sqlite3 toward the 3.6 branch ?
<kagou> Hi, I'm testing beta of bibble5. Bibble5 is not compiled for 64bits, so I'v installed ia32 and bibble5 is ok. In the last beta libuuid1 is needed, but libuuid1 installed is for x86-64 architecture.
<kagou> I can not find an elegant way to install the 32bit version of this lib
<kagou> I'v manually downloaded and manually extracted lib in /lib32 but it's dirty
<kagou> is there a way to simplify this ?
<seb128> kagou: hi, wrong channel, you want #ubuntu-devel
<kagou> seb128, oh
<seb128> kagou: the desktop team doesn't work on this package and ia32 and libuuid1 are not desktop things either
<kagou> ok
<seb128> ie, I've no clue about all that and you will probably get better reply on #ubuntu-devel
<didrocks> seb128: I set up a pbuilder and devtools on my server and worked on gnome-games. It builds successfully now :)
<seb128> didrocks: excellent ;-)
<didrocks> (what a mess to update a configure script in a pbuilder chroot using quilt)
<didrocks> I think I will wrote a little thing about it
<didrocks> seb128: I will report the changes on my bzr branches, look for correct bugs and then test it on my vm
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> (but not sure to have the time tonight)
<didrocks> and also, I will update the desktop team wiki for using bzr (when working on this packaging, I wrote a step by step how-to)
<didrocks> package*
<didrocks> have a good evening, I have to go to work for... ubuntu-fr now :p
<seb128> didrocks: you too, thanks!
<didrocks> lastlog gtk
<didrocks> oupss :)
<tedg> Has anyone packaged up parasite for Ubuntu?  The screencast looks pretty sweet.
<ember> parasite looks cool, but they still haven't release a tarball
<tedg> ember: tarballs are for wimps ;)  Hopefully shortly then.
<fta> huats, no progress i'm afraid. didn't have time to track all the rdeps so i'm using in-source sqlite in all mozilla products, which happens to be what upstream recommends.
<huats> fta: ok
<huats> fta: if you want we can work together on the rdeps...
<huats> it might be a great thing...
<huats> and I am sure we can find some people to help out...
<rickspencer3> Desktop team meeting in 10 minutes
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-01-20
<fta> huats, i was secretly expecting debian to work on this, as we alway get the package from them
<fta> +s
<huats> fta: I see your point :)
<huats> but I think we can wait long for that...
<huats> may be we can work with them together... to fasten a bit the process
<Ng> tedg: thanks for the pointers yesterday, turned out to be less than three dozen lines of python to listen to NM state changes :)
<Ng> tedg: now I just need to tackle python threading horror to make it do something useful ;)
<tedg> Ng, heh cool.  I wouldn't use python threading though.  Just use async stuff in Glib.  It'll make your life easier and most users won't notice.
<Ng> tedg: the idea is that you run this in a terminal and when NM is connected, it runs ssh for you, so I kinda need to spawn stuff and keep track of NM state. I wouldn't have thought I could do that with glib async stuff
<asac> hi
<ArneGoetje> hi
<rickspencer3> hi all
<rickspencer3> ready to meet?
<tkamppeter> hi
<pitti> hi all
<rickspencer3> here's the link again
<rickspencer3> bryce sends apologies
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<calc> hi
<tedg> Ng: You can :)  The GIO async stuff is magic :)
<rickspencer3> I guess we're all accounted for
<Ng> orly
<rickspencer3> first up is outstanding actions from last meeting
<rickspencer3> asac to clean up jaunty-desktop-network-changing wiki; draft expected behavior and test cases
<tedg> Ng: We actualy use the GIO async stuff for spawning external processes in Inkscape. :)
<asac> i did most parts. left out KDE and waiting for more details from mvo on the update- manager things
 * tedg 'll be quiet for the meeting, sorry.
<asac> now i am going through the apps and file bugs for those that misbehave
<mvo> asac: uh, sorry. I was not aware that the deadline for this was today
<rickspencer3> asac: great
<asac> mvo: no problem ;)
<rickspencer3> we might want to discuss more when we get to the sprint topic
<Ng> tedg: thanks for the hint, I'll check it out :)
<rickspencer3> next item: everyone tag 10 pet bugs by Friday
<pitti> I checked specs this morning, and there were no "pending approval" or "review" ones, just lots of "drafting"; this becomes a bit urgent no
<rickspencer3> pitti: yes
<rickspencer3> I understood that everyone was ready to get them approved now
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje: are you still blocking on anything?
<rickspencer3> in terms of spec approval?
<ArneGoetje> just had some last minute discussion with mvo about the implementation of language selector improvements
<pitti> @all: if you have your spec ready, please set it to "pending approval"
<pitti> (sorry, got disconnected
<pitti> I WON'T look at specs which are "drafting"
<rickspencer3> in a similar vein, has everyone tagged 10 pet bugs?
<pitti> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/pet-buglist.html
<ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: will need to make some small changes to the spec. BUt then it's ready.
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje: okay, please set to pending approval asap
<calc> looks like bryce needs to mark his still but the rest are done?
<ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: will do
<rickspencer3> bryce is out for a few days
<pitti> now let the games begin :)
<rickspencer3> heh
<calc> rickspencer3: ok
<rickspencer3> next topic
<seb128> I think I'm still one or two bug short, there is some thousand desktop bugs and I still have to pick some in the list ;-)
<pitti> as said, those should be the ones which would be intersting for you to work on
<pitti> which aren't urgent, require some work, but will do lots of good
<rickspencer3> rickspencer3 to follow up with Maria regarding info for presenters
<rickspencer3> Mark would like to encourage us to speak and contribute at conferences and such
<rickspencer3> so please be thinking if there is something like this that you want to do
<rickspencer3> we can discuss 1-1 in our phone calls
<rickspencer3> ready to move on to the agenda?
<pitti> wrt conferences
<pitti> I think we collected the "want to go to" list a while ago
<rickspencer3> pitti: understood
<pitti> I'm not sure whether we need ack from Matt or anyone else for this
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> good point
<rickspencer3> I'll follow up on that
<Riddell> we should get acks on gran canaria summit soon, air fairs will go up in peak tourist season
<pitti> the ConferenceAttendance wiki page looks fairly filled
<pitti> Riddell: :-)
<pitti> I'll give a speech at the beach cocktail bar
<rickspencer3> pitti: could you please paste link
<pitti> rickspencer3: /msged
<rickspencer3> tx
<rickspencer3> moving on ...
<rickspencer3> Changing the Add/Remove ...
<rickspencer3> this was brought up by Jane and Chris originally, then discussed on the desktop list
<rickspencer3> any other thoughts?
<pitti> interestingly, the tooltip says "install or remove applications"
<seele> was there a conclusion?
<pitti> which explains it pretty well IMHO
<rickspencer3> seele: no conclusion, this is still in discussion phase
<rickspencer3> pitti: yeah, there is a "sizzle" and "steak" question ehre
<pitti> maybe it should just say "Install/Remove", to unconfuse it with a menu editor?
<seb128> I've no real opinion about that, let the design team decide?
<rickspencer3> I think the feeling is that the usable labels aren't very buzz worthy, and we are not getting credit for a great function because of hte naming
<pitti> personally I like the location of the menu item, it's exactly where it should be
<pitti> it just has always looked a bit like menu editor to me
<rickspencer3> I'm neutral to the whole question, if the design/marketing team comes up with something with some sizzle that makes sense to users, I would support it
 * seele mumbles something about a lot of people don't realise how important labels are and think they are "preference"...
<rickspencer3> I think we need some usability data, we should watch some actual users
<asac> buzz worthy? so they dont want a functional name, but something like "software center"?
<seb128> seele: do you think add,remove is a good label? and softwares library? and why? ;-)
<rickspencer3> asac: that's one of the better suggestions I've heard so far ;)
<seb128> asac: "Software Library" what the one suggest on the list which is similar to yours
<seele> seb128: rickspencer3 had a point that it didnt follow with the other types of "places" available in that menu
<asac> yeah. but Center sounds more complete ;)
<seele> how well does something like "Center" translate?
 * pitti would favor "Add remove software" or "Install/remove"
<asac> seele: in german it would be "Software Center" ;)
<||sico||> no problem for spanish...
<davidbarth> according to google (if that's an indicator of how people could name such a thing), "software catalog" gets the highest number of results
<rickspencer3> pitti: I think they want something that says: there is a world of cool apps here
<seb128> pitti: "add remove software" is a no go, too long in some locale (german probably being one of those), the menu becomes quickly ugly because it scales to the label
<rickspencer3> so it seems to me that we are generally supportive of the change *if* they can come up with a name that is:
<rickspencer3> 1. understandible
<rickspencer3> 2. translatable
<rickspencer3> 3. cooler than what we already have
<rickspencer3> sound about right?
<rickspencer3> "they" being design and or marketing
<asac> davidbarth: software catalog doesnt really imply that you go there to get something :) ... only that you go there to look stuff up.
<seb128> and short enough to not make the menu look ugly because it will scale to the label
<asac> rickspencer3: ack
<rickspencer3> 4. doesn't make the label look ugly due to length or other issues
<pitti> rickspencer3: I wouldn't exactly measure "coolness", but the percentage of users who understand what this menu item means
<davidbarth> davidbarth: sorry, that's software *library*, then *catalog* then software center (using double quotes in the queries)
<rickspencer3> pitti: yeah, that's the "steak" part of the equation, it has to be usable
<seb128> "you should try that, really"
<seb128> what about that? ;-)
<rickspencer3> so we don't want to sacrifice the steak for the sizzle
<rickspencer3> seb128: perfect
<pitti> "Get more stuff"
<davidbarth> asac: i'm providing some cheap to collect user data
<rickspencer3> I still think we should test any changes empirically, and Berlin may be a good opportunity for that
<rickspencer3> move on?
<asac> "Extend Ubuntu ..." ;)
<asac> yes lets move on
<seb128> rickspencer3: no need to wait the sprint, if you want to try a change let me know and I'll do the upload
<rickspencer3> seb128: will do
<rickspencer3> thanks
<rickspencer3> there is a section for sponsoring on the agenda template
<pitti> so on whose plate is that now?
<seb128> it'll take time before we get translations back though since it'll require translator work and language pack updates
<rickspencer3> pitti: I'll feedback to Jane and Chris this discussion, and then work with Julian to see if we want to move any ideas forward
<asac> seb128: maybe inject all suggestions to some po template so we get all translations and can more easily switch to what we want
<rickspencer3> so, sponsoring?
<asac> i did a bunch this week
<asac> more to come ;)
<seb128> I did a bunch too ;-)
<pitti> still have to do some, was on vac; on this week's TODO, though
<seb128> rickspencer3: anything specific to discuss about sponsoring?
<rickspencer3> seb128: no, it looks like it's part of the template for the meeting, and I didn't know what it was for
<seb128> or that's just a reminder that everybody should be doing some?
<asac> lets whip those that didnt include any in their activity ;)
<rickspencer3> I'll follow up with someone after the meeting about the agenda item in general
<seb128> rickspencer3: scott used to review during the meeting desktop sponsor request which were waiting for a while
<rickspencer3> seb128: thanks, I'll do that next time
<rickspencer3> let's move on to release status ... I'd like to briefly discuss status on a few items
<rickspencer3> first, Dx Support
<rickspencer3> davidbarth: anything to add here?
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: sure
<davidbarth> so first we're getting great support from mozilla, thanks to asac
<rickspencer3> yeah
<davidbarth> then, we're reviewing all apps from main *and* universe
<davidbarth> i've made a big list with mpt for patches we need to provide
<pitti> do we have some public packages for testing in a PPA?
<davidbarth> including an initial recommendations for the infamous actions
<davidbarth> pitti: not yet, that will be for our code drop
<davidbarth> we're progressing with the implementation
<davidbarth> we should have something nice by the time of the sprint when entering the beta cycle
<asac> davidbarth: maybe you can drop the apps one by one (when done) instead of one huge code drop?
<asac> or is that the plan?
<davidbarth> asac: yes, that's the plan
<davidbarth> asac: the patches may land even before the daemon is there, but that should not be a problem
<rickspencer3> thanks davidbarth
<davidbarth> i hope to provide more on the message indicator next week btw, ted has made great progresses
<davidbarth> he should blog to present his thoughts about the API sometime this week
<davidbarth> and i think that's it
<rickspencer3> thanks
<rickspencer3> next item, which is related ..
<rickspencer3> New GDM (PPA and Migration)
<pitti> thanks for the update
<rickspencer3> seb128: is the PPA ready?
<seb128> rickspencer3: ppa? I've started looking at the update again, I plan to get it uploaded to universe this week rather than using a ppa though
<rickspencer3> seb128: right
<seb128> not yet but will be uploaded during the week
<rickspencer3> thanks
<rickspencer3> next, Device kit?
<pitti> so first packaging it, and then work on the migration code?
<asac> migration code?
 * asac scared that NM breaks
<rickspencer3> pitti: yes
<pitti> asac: to carry over old gdm's autologin settings into new gdm's gconf
<asac> pitti: oh. thought that was on devicekit ;)
<pitti> rickspencer3: latest DK and DK-power are in universe
<asac> nevermind then
<rickspencer3> pitti: so done?
<rickspencer3> sweet
<pitti> rickspencer3: well, the spec is about that plus packaging the new gpm in a PPA
<pitti> but AFAIK tedg wanted to do that?
<pitti> tedg: if not, shall one of us do it?
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: is device kit in the scope of 9.04?
<rickspencer3> davidbarth: no
<davidbarth> ok
<pitti> davidbarth: no, just for playing with it
<pitti> 9.04 -> universe
<pitti> and using current gpm
<pitti> 9.10 -> probably switch to new gpm and DK
<davidbarth> ok, same as gdm
<tedg> pitti: I can do it, I just really messed up my GPM packaging branch :(  I just need to fix it.
<pitti> tedg: ok, please let me know if you need help with it
<pitti> I guess it depends on how many patches to old gpm we have to port to the new one
<tedg> pitti: I just need to figure out what revisions to un-merge.  Not help, just a lot of stupid mistake work.
<pitti> I wouldn't dare to touch fusa, but if gpm just has a couple which went upstream, I can probably do it as well
<seb128> tedg: speaking about that, you are going to do the 2.25 update in jaunty?
<tedg> Many of the GPM patches are for LTSP, which should be handled by DKp, so they shouldn't be GPM patches anymore.
<tedg> seb128: No.  We're not going to do 25 in Jaunty as it requires DKp.
<seb128> tedg: 2.24.3 then?
<tedg> seb128: yes.
<seb128> ok good
<pitti> 2.25 was for a PPA, depending on dk-p?
<seb128> are you sure that 2.25 requires that new thing?
<tedg> pitti: ys.
<tedg> yes.
<seb128> vuntz: ^ do you know about that? is that a GNOME requirement now?
<tedg> seb128: I'm pretty sure that's what hughsie's e-mail to GNOME-devel said.
<pitti> seb128: AFAIK Richard explicitly sanctioned distros using 2.24 for the moment, for that very reason
<seb128> tedg: that's weird that GNOME accepted a 2.26 requirement on that
<rickspencer3> ready to move on?
<seb128> yes
<rickspencer3> we should discuss the Berlin sprint
<rickspencer3> it starts in less than two weeks
<pitti> my ideas which would greatly benefit from being together: fix (1) hotkey, (2) beamer, (3) suspend/resume for everyone's laptop
<tkamppeter> Yes, I live in Berlin and it would be nice if the sprint really takes place there.
<pitti> tkamppeter: that's settled already :)
<tkamppeter> Is there any Wiki page about the Sprint?
<asac> hehe
<rickspencer3> tkamppeter: let's talk seperately, I'll bring you up to speed
<rickspencer3> pitti: good ideas
<rickspencer3> others?
<ArneGoetje> pitti: fix the intel driver in xorg for i855, 915 and 945 first
<vuntz> seb128: we're discussing the dk-p dep on the r-t mailing list right now, but it'll likely be accepted, yes
<pitti> ArneGoetje: outside my competency, so I can't judge whether that's feasible :)
<seb128> I should try to get somebody to fix my machine crashing on user switching ;-)
<asac> pitti: those three sound more like foundation topics ;)
<pitti> asac: true that, but that's quite inherent to hardware specific problems :)
<seb128> vuntz: GNOME starts being disappointing on the crack level ;-)
<pitti> well, it's not crack, it's just kind of a nuisance to have to support both hal and dk at the same time
<rickspencer3> pitti: seb128: I'd like to propose a session on efficient bug management
<seb128> pitti: they are hurrying too fast on rewrites recently and that leads to the recent issue we had for gdm, gnome-session, etc
<seb128> rickspencer3: good idea yes
<pitti> rickspencer3: sounds very similar to my UDS talk?
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: +1
<rickspencer3> pitti: yes, but more and hands on
<pitti> or do you mean something else?
<asac> maybe we should do a one day trip to hamburg and visit the pulseaudio lennart
<asac> ;)
<asac> just kiddin
<rickspencer3> :)
<pitti> asac: -ECITY, he lives in Boston now?
<asac> pitti: shit ;)
<rickspencer3> how about some time with the Dx team making sure their new stuff works on all of our laptops?
<asac> rickspencer3: efficient bug management -> only thing that can help me is the launcpad plugin getting deployed in bugzillas.
<pitti> I think at the sprint we should focus on squashing hardware related bugs and working with the Dx team
<rickspencer3> asac: yes, not necessarily useful for everyone, but very useful for some
<pitti> and otherwise just continue fixing bugs, picking the ones where we need to pick the brains from colleagues
<rickspencer3> pitti: += design team
<seb128> asac: what would that change? I'm not convinced about that
<asac> rickspencer3: i think its useful for all software that has a bugzilla tracker
<asac> seb128: it will resolve the "proxy" problem. e.g. at the moment you file bug upstreawm
<asac> and from then on have to proxy discussion for launchpad reporter
 * pitti never found that to be a major blocker
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje: what would you like to get out of the sprint?
<asac> with plugin you just file upstream against proper component and then monitor and help out when necessary
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: we've added that as part of our sprint, on Monday, Wednesday and Friday; the rest of the time is for coding
<pitti> the time I need to create an fd.o bug is insignificant compared to the time it takes me to write an upstream-ish bug description
<seb128> asac: the proxy thing is a feature, without that we would send crack bugs upstream and they would start ignoring those
<asac> seb128: well. we do the initial forwarding. so we still filter
<ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: finish a great deal of language selector
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje: is that something that will benefit from being together with everyone?
<seb128> asac: well, what does that would change then? You need to clean the bug description before sending the bug anyway
<seb128> not really a meeting topic though
<seb128> let's discuss that later ;-)
<ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: mostly with mvo
<vuntz> seb128: well, you can stay with gpm 2.24
<vuntz> seb128: that's hughsie's plan, and he's maintaining 2.24 for people who wants to stay with hal
<pitti> vuntz: do you happen to know when GNOME will switch everything to DK away from hal?
<vuntz> pitti: I asked a few weeks ago. It won't happen for 2.26
<rickspencer3> ok, no other ideas regarding the sprint?
<pitti> vuntz: no, didn't expect that :)
<vuntz> pitti: maybe 2.28. I don't think we have that many things directly using hal, actually
<asac> rickspencer3: fixing bugs in apps that dont behave properly on network changes
<rickspencer3> Riddell: any thoughts regarding the sprint?
<pitti> vuntz: primarily gvfs and nautilus, I guess
<rickspencer3> asac: yes, good one
<Riddell> rickspencer3: making sure our mysql changes get agreed and in
<seb128> vuntz: right, we will do that
<vuntz> pitti: nautilus doesn't depend on hal at all. It's pure gio love :-)
<Riddell> need to talk to server team people for that
<rickspencer3> Riddell: sounds good
<rickspencer3> all: I'll put together a list of topics and send out for review
<rickspencer3> I have some details from some other teams that I can include
<pitti> vuntz: indeed :) so gpm (done), gvfs, network-manager, and system-config-printer primarily
<asac> network-manager will go for devicekit for 0.8
<asac> but that will take a bit
<rickspencer3> moving on in the agenda
<rickspencer3> Activity Reports: all done and on the wiki, so thanks for that
<pitti> asac: (just would be nice to have the migration for next LTS)
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<asac> pitti: i hope we can get a quicker release cycle from now on
 * rickspencer3 tries desperately to stick to agenda
 * rickspencer3 but has already lost control
<pitti> rickspencer3: well done
<seb128> one thing
<pitti> sorry for the side discussions
<vuntz> pitti: system-config-printer doesn't depend on hal either, I think :-) But there's a hal backend for cups
<seb128> slangasek was needing cd space for the alpha some days ago, I told him to move nautilus-cd-burner deskbar-applet tracker to supported
<pitti> vuntz: yes, I mean that hal-cups-utils, it calls s-c-p for autoconfig love
<seb128> just to let know everybody if somebody has comments on the change
<rickspencer3> seb128: tracker makes sense, but CD burner?
<pitti> brasero?
<seb128> brasero implements the nautilus-cd-burner features now
<seb128> ie, burn: location in nautilus, libraries to be used by rhythmbox, etc
<rickspencer3> I guess it makes sense, I'll check it out
<pitti> oh, it indeed looks quite nice
<seb128> deskbar-applet and tracker where not used in the default configuration, they are not that useful and quite buggy
<pitti> burnign an iso has a nice and small UI now, not the full brasero one
<rickspencer3> seb128: thanks for the update
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<asac> i didnt find brasero in accessories ;) ... then found it in sound & video ... hmmm
<seb128> one other small thing
<pitti> rickspencer3: oh, sprint idea: measure everyone's desktop startup speed and work on making them faster
<seb128> somebody raised a question about the dpi setting we use some time ago on the channel
<seele> rickspencer3: unrelated but i am still waiting for MPT to get me the bib for Ubuntu's notification design
 * calc notes jaunty a3 takes ~ 18s on his desktop
<asac> seb128: font dpi?
<seb128> gnome-settings-daemon still force the value to 96 dpi rather than using the xorg value
<asac> yeah
<seb128> we did that because we had too many buggy cases when we trying to not force the value in gutsy
<asac> i think bryce has to comment on that .... afaik it was because of a X bug or something
<pitti> calc: 62 seconds for me :(
<seb128> this user was arguing that nowadays that break many setups though
<seb128> and that we should drop the forced value
<rickspencer3> seele: have you been in contact with MPT directly regarding this?
<calc> pitti: on a fresh install? i didn't have anything else loaded on mine
<pitti> seb128: another good sprint material, I think
<seb128> does anybody has an opinion about that?
<seele> rickspencer3: yep, no rely though
<davidbarth> seele: i'm seeing him tomorrow, i'll pass on the message
<calc> pitti: and that was from grub to gdm login prompt for me
<seele> *reply
<seele> davidbarth: ok thanks
<asac> seb128: many setups?
<seb128> should we try not forcing the value for a while and get user feedback during this cycle?
<pitti> calc: ah, I mean gdm until the desktop is ready to use
<calc> pitti: ah ok
<pitti> seb128: *nod*
<pitti> seb128: and on the sprint we have plenty of people and hardware to try it out on
<asac> seb128: i think we should try
<seb128> asac: lot of screen have higher dpi resolutions now and 96 makes those look really wrong where letting xorg get the value would work better
<seb128> asac, pitti: ok
<bluesmoke> mvo: Do you have any idea what http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~compiz/compiz/ubuntu/annotate/head%3A/debian/patches/010-disable-child-window-clipping.patch is even for?
<rickspencer3> meeting adjourned?
<mpt> rickspencer3, yes she has
<seb128> thanks rickspencer3
<asac> thanks
<pitti> rickspencer3: I think we should start adding those to the sprint wiki page
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<bluesmoke> mvo: I think it's for that hack to enable XaaNoOffscreenPixmaps on the fly? Do we need that?
<pitti> thanks everyone
<rickspencer3> pitti: agreed
<mpt> but I'm still ~1 month behind on non-urgent stuff
 * calc wonders if displays should be a focus for 9.10 wrt dpi, working better on netbooks, etc
<tkamppeter> I have something, WDYT about a foomatic-filters SRU: bug 318816, bug 318818, bug 299918, bug 303691
<ubottu> Bug 318816 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/318816 is private
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 318818 in foomatic-filters "Intrepid fails LSB 3.2 tests on foomatic-filters" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/318818
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299918 in foomatic-filters "Cannot print duplex in intrepid with Ricoh Aficio 2060, Ricoh Aficio MPC3000 or Brother HL-4050cdn using the openprinting drivers" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299918
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 303691 in foomatic-filters "Intrepid, print broken with Minolta PagePro 8L printer" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/303691
<pitti> tkamppeter: we can discuss that in #u-devel IMHO
<tkamppeter> pitti, OK
<tkamppeter> Yes, this is the server side of the printing stack and not desktop.
<seb128> is launchpad not working today?
<calc> seb128: works for me
 * seb128 got almost no bug mail this afternoon, that's weird
<Amaranth> mvo: Other than that we have 4 patches that aren't for settings or from upstream and I think we should be able to get at least 2 of them upstream
<seb128> pedro_: did you triage bug this afternoon? I don't get my usual bug mail flood today ;-)
<pedro_> seb128: it's being slow here but it's working
<pedro_> seb128: just returning from lunch :-P
<calc> seb128: i'm getting email from LP
<seb128> ok, must just be a calm day for desktop bugs
<calc> seb128: i think it might be delayed a bit (< 1hr though)
<calc> oh hmm i just an email for a change 7m ago so maybe not delayed so much
<seele> rickspencer3: davidbarth: mpt: i'm going to write up my notes on notifications so we can begin discussing them in terms of KDE.
<rickspencer3> seele: thank you
<pedro_> is anybody having cracking sounds with pulseaudio?
<davidbarth> seele: yes, thanks, you'd better start, i'm still paddling in gnome code, that will help me switch to kde
<asac> pedro_: cracking?
<calc> pedro_: i hear that on my laptop but no sound other than the cracking
<asac> for me pulse is definitly on crack ;) ... but indeed
<asac> if i go to gstreamer-properties and run the test sound i get a crack shortly after it starts
<pedro_> asac: well, like.. not being so good, you know little jumps between music
<asac> but otherwise no
<asac> hmm
<calc> PA is known to have issues with among other things all hda-intel realtek codecs :-\
<asac> pedro_: for me it happened when my ati graphics driver was running EXA
<calc> not sure what kind of issues those happen to be
<asac> which slowed down things to death
<asac> pedro_: i forced Xaa and all is fine now ... so wasnt a pulse issue ... more a general system load thing caused by buggy exa accell method
<pedro_> I have an intel card but i'm having issues with xorg being slow at the beginning of the session
<asac> my line in isnt working on hda-intel realtek  though :(
<asac> pedro_: also EXA?
<pedro_> asac: yeah
<asac> i think intel uses exa for quite some time
<asac> but still worth a try ... if xaa works at all
<asac> on intel
<pedro_> yup will try that otherwise will fill a bug
<crevette> hey
<crevette> seb128: I updated nautilus-sendto
<seb128> crevette: good, I'll review that later
<mvo> Amaranth: no idea about 010_ - its there since the dawn of time (i.e. nice before I merged it into bzr)
<Amaranth> mvo: Yeah, it's been there since 0.3.6
<Amaranth> I remember mjg59 added it
<Amaranth> All it does is create that atom, I'm pretty sure it's for the XAA workaround
<mvo> Amaranth: ok
<Amaranth> also, it's kind of neat running compiz without LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT now :)
<Amaranth> and seeing compiz-manager handle that correctly
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128 - i notice gnome-session didn't build on 1 arch
<chrisccoulson> hi mvo - i did the work on bug 302326 that we spoke about last week. the change is in bzr. would you mind taking a look at it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 302326 in update-notifier ""Restart Now" informational applet does not work" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/302326
<mvo> chrisccoulson: sure, I misread the last comment when I looked at it the other day, I missed the bit that the patch is already commited :)
<mvo> chrisccoulson: what is the bzr lp url?
<chrisccoulson> 1 second
<chrisccoulson> it is lp:~chrisccoulson/update-notifier/bug302326
<chrisccoulson> i had to bring the branch in sync with what was in the archive, which just involved moving a changelog entry (for a change that went in after the last release)
<mvo> thanks chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> you're welcome
<seb128> re
<seb128> chrisccoulson: sorry I was just running for dinner when you ask your question
<seb128> chrisccoulson: the build was on ia64? that seems to be a buildd issue
<jlamsens> Anyone already has Compiz 0.7.8 running on Ubuntu 8.04 ? I have the problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/242735
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242735 in compiz "[nvidia] 2 sec delay on 1 of 2 X screens, no xinerama" [Undecided,Fix released]
<jlamsens> Apparently, compiz 0.7.8 is only available for Intrepid, not for hardy. No backuport exists. Latest Compiz version for hardy: 0.7.6
<jlamsens> Anyone ?
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, sorry i had to disappear as well. yeah, i was referring to the ia64 build of gnome-session. i wasn't sure what the problem was with it
<chrisccoulson> it's just a transient error is it?
<seb128> chrisccoulson: it seems, let me build retry this one
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson: you're welcome, thank you for the work you are doing
<chrisccoulson> you're welcome too:)
<seb128> chrisccoulson: not sure if you are interested by doing some other GNOME updates but let me know if you are there is still some tarballs to update ;-)
<chrisccoulson> no problem. i can't do any this evening as i've got some other stuff to do, but just give me a shout if you see me on here
<chrisccoulson> i'm around most evenings
<seb128> ok
<seb128> we really should update the workflow this cycle, there was some work started on that
<seb128> having a public system listing updates that are waiting and letting anybody claim any of those
<chrisccoulson> that would be quite useful
<asomething> seb128: http://norsetto.890m.com/desktop_packages.php is nice but it doesn't seem to look for 2.25.* packages
<seb128> asomething: right, it needs to be updated
<asomething> seb128: tools like that are important, they show people (like me) good places to jump in
<seb128> asomething: right, we need some server to run the tools and some organisation though
<seb128> asomething: the "whoever is the fast to grab an upgrade" system is not the best one
<seb128> some people are working on a regular base on the same components and should be prefered upgrader if they are around
<seb128> and we try to balance the tasks between contributors
<seb128> we tend to attribute work on IRC right now but that has limitation
<seb128> we could use a summary and a list of tasks though
<asomething> seb128: exactly, if a page like that were kept up to date, it would make things easier to know
<seb128> if you are looking for something to do just ask there though ;-)
<seb128> do you have some special interest in some component?
<asomething> seb128: i often have a hard time figuring where my efforts are best needed
<seb128> the question should rather be what is interesting you the most because that's where you should start
<asomething> seb128: nothing too specific, I mostly keep to working on gnome/gtk desktop stuff
<seb128> you can do bug triage, bug fixing, updates
<seb128> is there any GNOME component you already worked on? or that you use often and have special interest in?
<asomething> seb128: i've done a few uploads of cheese and (not gnome but ubuntu-desktop) transmission
<asomething> i maintain file-browser-applet and parcellite in debian
<dobey> file-browser-applet?
<dobey> like the thing that shows a menu of the file system in the gnome panel?
<asomething> dobey: it's a gnome panel applet, in universe for Ubuntu
<asomething> upstrea home: http://code.google.com/p/gnome-menu-file-browser-applet/
<dobey> interesting
<asomething> though, the upstream dev is probably moving to LP soon, with my help
<seb128> asomething: nobody seems to be actively working on cheese, you are welcome to do the updates when they are available if you want
<seb128> asomething: just ask on the channel if you are not sure or have any question
<asomething> seb128: if there are any other gnome 2.25.* packages that still need to be done, feel free to delegate something to me, i'd love to help more
 * dobey still needs to make 2.25.x releases of a few things
<didrocks> seb128: you are working late these days
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> didrocks: no
<seb128> didrocks: I stop early and sometime come back later
<seb128> "early", ie at a reasonable work hour ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: oki :-) I am building my changes again (on my laptop this time) and test on my vm
<seb128> didrocks: time to update your laptop to jaunty!
<didrocks> seb128: indeed :-)
<didrocks> hum, taking a tour on LP to see which bugs can be closed with this release
<seb128> asomething: there is not too many updates to do right now in fact but when one tarball is available I will let you know
<seb128> didrocks: good
<asomething> =)
<seb128> asomething: not sure how much you know about packaging, evolution-mapi is a new thing to package but that's not really a beginner task though
<asomething> seb128: not a beginner but not exactly a vet yet either. but i wouldn't really be able to test it. it's for interacting with an exchange server right?
<seb128> asomething: the server team can do the testing
<seb128> asomething: they don't seem to be that interested in packaging it and technically that's a GNOME component so we sort of agreed on having the desktop team doing the packaging and they will do the testing
<asomething> seb128: i can take a crack at it, is there already a needs-packaging bug?
<ember> btw seb128 is there any update free?
<seb128> asomething: not that I know
<seb128> ember: no, that's what I was saying to asomething just before
<ember> pochu reminder, take a another look at gtk-css sitting on revu when you have time
<ember> ok i didn't read the backlog i was just asking
<seb128> ember: it would be nice if you could stop doing updates without asking there before, some of those you did are not useful they only have translation updates and since jaunty language packs are not updated yet they just give extra sponsoring work for nothing
<seb128> ember: you also did some which were assigned to other people who asked on the channel
<ember> oh sorry didn't know about the translations, were just trivial ones
<ember> which one? i can invalid it
<seb128> ember: that's ok, better to ask on the channel until there is a better way to list updates to do though
<seb128> ember: don't bother now that they are done, they are quick to sponsor too, but there is no real need to do those
<seb128> gnome-menus and libwnck were not really required, there is some minor changes there and version will be uptodate this way
<asomething> seb128: I'll get a package on REVU in the next couple days, bug 319400
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 319400 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] evolution-mapi " [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/319400
<seb128> ok, enough work for today now
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-01-21
<pochu> fta: Accepted sqlite3 3.6.10-1 (source all amd64)
<pochu> I hope you enjoy it :)
<didrocks> hi everyone
<didrocks> seb128: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~didrocks/gnome-games/ubuntu
<seb128> lut didrocks, ok thanks
<didrocks> sorry for the time taken for this. I will have more time from now
<crevette> helo gents
<didrocks> plop crevette
<crevette> thanks seb128 for the hard work you did this night
<crevette> salut didrocks
<seb128_> grrrr jaunty, laptop frozen again
<seb128_> if somebody was saying something to me please say it again
<didrocks> seb128_: I don't remember who (^^) told me yesterday that it's time for me to upgrade to jaunty :)
<seb128_> ;-)
<crevette> seb128, frezes happen under which circonstances ?
<seb128> crevette: usually after switching between users
<crevette> ah
<crevette> I remember I had some too, and my gf told she had some
<crevette> I had also freezes when doing some intensive network I/O
<crevette> but perhaps it is more tied the network driver
<seb128> I don't think I've issues to io load
<seb128> didrocks: what was this bzr url for gnome-games? my jaunty crashed
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> hey pitti!
<Tm_T> "its thursday"
 * Tm_T hides
<didrocks> seb128: it will be the futur url where mvo update desktop team bzr branch, normally
<didrocks> morning pitti !
<seb128> didrocks: ?
<didrocks> seb128: oh, no the one in control, but the url I gave you?
<seb128> didrocks: I ask you to repeat what you wrote before because my laptop and IRC crashed before I used it ;-)
<didrocks> sorry, someone is speaking to me and my head get into trouble :)
<didrocks> seb128: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~didrocks/gnome-games/ubuntu
<seb128> didrocks: I was going to ask if you can walk and talk in the same time but huats is not around so there is no point make a such joke ;-)
<seb128> didrocks: thanks ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: :-p
<didrocks> hopefully huats is not using irssi, so, you will not repeat that, don't you? ;)
<didrocks> hum "do you?" is better
<Tm_T> ?
 * didrocks is seeing is Enligsh getting worse and worse since I came back from Ireland :(
<didrocks> his\
<didrocks> his*
<crevette> didrocks, hopefully I can't notice you irish accent when I read you :)
<crevette> your*
<seb128> you can notice his french accent though ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: you're an evil person, you know :-)
<seb128> !!!
<seb128> didrocks: no I'm not ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: and you had to quit/come back to this chan 3 times to be sure of that? ;)
<seb128> didrocks: 3 times? I just closed IRC to show that's not how you talk to people there ;-)
<didrocks> coffee time ^^
<seb128> didrocks: anyway reviewing your changes now
<seb128> didrocks: why did you drop the desktop path change?
<didrocks> (one sec, searching for reference)
<seb128> didrocks: we usually don't update the standards-version in ubuntu, that creates unrequired diff over debian
<didrocks> seb128: but gnome package are splitted between ubuntu and debian, aren't they?
<seb128> didrocks: what do you mean splitted? we rebase our packaging on theirs every now and then
<seb128> and the standards-version means you verified everything conforms to the current standards
<seb128> which we usually don't bother doing
<didrocks> seb128: ok, I thought that gnome packages were never synced
<didrocks> seb128: and yes, I verified the changes :-)
<seb128> ok, good then but that's usually a detail and we don't bother
<didrocks> but ok, that's not necessary, I know it now
<didrocks> for the patch, I have read somewhere that the best pratice was not to use full path
<didrocks> but I was wrong reading http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s06.html
<didrocks> /usr/games is in the path, why providing a full path?
<seb128> didrocks: otherwise
<seb128> $ diff -u gnome-games-2.24.1.1/configure.in build-area/gnome-games-2.25.5/configure.in | grep DBUS
<seb128> +DBUS_GLIB_REQUIRED=0.75
<seb128> didrocks: you didn't add this build depends
<didrocks> my bad, correct :/
<seb128> didrocks: in fact it seems to be only required when building with the theme installer option
<seb128> so not a bug ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: I do not have the configure.in (not access to my branch actually), let me take a look, one sec
<seb128> didrocks: to know why changes are there usually read the debian changelog
<seb128> didrocks:
<seb128>   * desktop-path.patch: added, uses absolute paths for .desktop files
<seb128>     (closes: #236618).
<seb128> debian bug #236618
<ubottu> Debian bug 236618 in gnome-games "gnome-games: menu entries unusable if /usr/games not on path" [Normal,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/236618
<didrocks> seb128: ok, I note that in my todo. I was unsure of this change and was relying on my sponsor :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> didrocks: otherwise good work
<didrocks> so, diff in configure.in and always read the changelog, again :)
<seb128> I'm test building it now
<didrocks> seb128: I would prefer it has been perfect, but well... :/
<didrocks> (ok, I see in configure.in)
<seb128> lut huats
<didrocks> hello huats
<huats> hey seb128
<seb128> huats: c'est Ã  cette heure lÃ  qu'on arrive au boulot? ;-)
<huats> how are you ?
<seb128> good thanks
<seb128> you?
<huats> morning everyone too :)
<huats> seb128: LOL
<huats> good too
<didrocks> seb128: it's very early for him, now, you know? :)
<huats> I just get connected now there is a small difference ;)
<huats> (small I admit)
<huats> (but I was working late yesterday on my daywork...)
<didrocks> huats: time to boot? :-)
<seb128> so he's basically starting at 10, reading mails for an hour, going for lunch, coming back at 15, doing some IRC and ubuntu work and then going for dinner?
<huats> seb128: are you in the same office than me ?
<huats> ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<huats> seb128: except that you forgot the various planet reading
<huats> :p
<seb128> heh
<didrocks> I knew it, there was no scheduled time for ubuntu-fr! :-p
<huats> seb128: the new gnome-keyring stuff FTBFS again (caused by the LDFLAGS like the previous time...)
<huats> seb128: I'll see what I can do about it...
<seb128> huats: anyway, jokes aside it's sponsoring time, hand the packages you had to update for today
<huats> seb128: I will
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> huats: the previous change doesn't apply this time?
<huats> seb128: nope.
<huats> I have to see if I can do some stuffs...
<huats> seb128: I have something to do for my daywork right now
<seb128> huats: just mail upstream
<seb128> huats: ok, no hurry, good work
<huats> but I'll will do my packages today :)
<huats> and sure I'll mail upstream :)
<seb128> didrocks: another trick to learn for you
<seb128> didrocks:
<seb128> $ dh_install --list-missing
<seb128> dh_install: usr/share/gnome-games-common/theme-install.ini exists in debian/tmp but is not installed to anywhere
<seb128> didrocks: new file which should be installed in a binary and is not
<seb128> huats, fta: btw libsqlite 3.6 has been uploaded to debian yesterday
<huats> seb128: THANKS !
<seb128> huats: I didn't do it, I just noticed the upload ;-)
<huats> thanks anyway :)
<huats> seb128: since there is DIF, I think I need to write something to ask for the inclusion...
<huats> I'll have a look then (later today after the uploads seb128 :))
<seb128> huats: you need a sync request bug and subscribe the sponsor team to the bug
<huats> seb128: ok thanks
<didrocks> seb128: sorry, I was in a meeting
<didrocks> dh_install --list-missing, ok, noted
<didrocks> can I fix the package this evening?
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> seb128: ok, I will try to add an extra stuff so that you would forgive me for this bad update :-)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> there is no problem don't worry!
<pochu> pitti: looks like the liferea update is flawed :(
<pochu> pitti: I'll investigate this later (have an exam in 50 minutes). Do we need to do anything special? It's not in -updates yet.
<pitti> pochu: please follow up on the bug report and tag it regression-proposed
<pitti> pochu: exam> oh, good luck with it!
<pochu> pitti: it's an English exam, so will be ok :)
<pochu> ok, tagged
<seb128> crevette: why did you change the nautilus-sendto description? we usually try to not change debian descriptions when not required, that creates delta over debian and that breaks translations
<crevette> seb128, ah sorry, I wanted to update the description with regards to new functions added, and about generic support of IM
<crevette> later I dropped the description of upnp but I kept the IM part because it sounded me valuable
<seb128> crevette: well, there is no real changes since we don't use universe components so it still use the same set
<crevette> I can propose a new description for debian so
<seb128> well, the issue is that I don't think your description bring a lot ;-)
<seb128> "sending files to accounts in an Evolution email
<seb128> - address book, contacts on a Pidgin or Gajim instant messaging list,
<seb128> - through Thunderbird, or through Claws Mail (formerly Sylpheed Claws)."
<seb128> changed to
<seb128> "sending files to various components, as an attachement
<seb128> + in a mail in evolution, Thunderbird, or Claws Mail, or to the contacts of various
<seb128> + instant messaging client.
<seb128> "
<seb128> that's not that different
<Nafallo> Gajim \o/
<seb128> lol
<crevette> it was better with the UPNP and the other thing I forgot
<crevette> :)
<crevette> anyway I won't be angy if you drp it
<seb128> crevette: ok, I'll drop it for now
<crevette> angry
<crevette> my "R" is blocked :)
<pitti> seb128: AFAIR we had a bug tag which said "that's a good thing to work on for new interested people"
<pitti> seb128: do you happen to remember that?
<seb128> pitti: launchpad has a builtin option to say you would sponsor work on the bug, you can use that
<seb128> pitti: otherwise there is bitesize for small changes
<pitti> bitesize! that was it, merci!
<seb128> you're welcome
<asac> mvo: any reason why jaunty-codec-install isnt targetted for jaunty?
<asac> mvo: I assume gnome-codec-install integrate properly with gstreamer? e.g. gnash will still work too?
<pochu> asac: hey :) is it possible to thread messages in TB by "reply-to"? I'm looking at making threads useful in my launchpad bug-mail folder, and by subject is not an option as Launchpad mangles it
<pochu> reply-to would work as it's bug specific, e.g. "Reply-To: Bug 247040 <247040@bugs.launchpad.net>"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247040 in gst-plugins-good0.10 "totem-gstreamer crashed with SIGSEGV in theora_decode_packetin()" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/247040
<pochu> (does anybody else have a working solution for this?)
<asac> pochu: doesnt tbird look at "References: "?
<seb128> pochu: use evolution? ;-)
<pochu> seb128: I tried :-) but I had a few issues...
<pochu> I've moved 2 out of 3 accounts to Evo though
<pochu> but they don't have hundreds of mails a day ;)
<asac> evolution blocked on lack of evolution ;) (just kidding)
<pochu> heh
<pochu> asac: hmm, not sure, let me try
<mvo> asac: yeah, it should just work fine
<mvo> asac: updated (targeted for jaunty now)
<pochu> asac: looks like it doesn't
<pochu> asac: but thanks. will continue later, lunch now :)
<asac> pochu: i have huge bug folders in tbird as its just rocking fast searching stuff and so on ... never noticed any bad threading issues
<asac> pochu: but i am using shredder (thunderbird-3.0 package from ~fta +archive) ... maybe try that .. otherwise we should figure whats wrong and file bug
<didrocks> seb128: I have worked on updating the bzr desktop team page. (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr). If you don't like it, you can revert :)
<seb128> didrocks: thank you, looking
<seb128> didrocks: good work, that's clear and detailled ;-) we will probably tweak the workflow a bit but that's a good start
<seb128> especially it would be nice to automate some of the testing or configure changes listing, etc
<didrocks> seb128: hope that can provide some help to others :)
<seb128> that will
<didrocks> hum, I thought about removing debian/control from bzr
<didrocks> as it is generated by debian/control.in in "rules clean"
<didrocks> does this make sense?
<seb128> I would not really bother
<seb128> but I would not bother making sure it's uptodate either
<didrocks> it is just because I think this is a source of mistake for new contributors
<crevette> I admit I was mistaken several time
<didrocks> seb128: I wanted to add some tricks for quilt + autotools (apply it one time, see which files are changed with find . -amin .. -type f > file and then make a quilt add ...). But this has to be in the packagingguide, hasn't it?
<pitti> seb128: hm, I'm trying to get --short-docs to work (starting to work on bug 123035)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 123035 in gnome-app-install "make installing games more easier" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123035
<pitti> $ LANG= gconftool --short-docs /apps/drivemount-applet/prefs
<pitti> No schema known for `/apps/drivemount-applet/prefs'
<pitti> bug 123025, of course
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 123025 in gconf2 "stop shipping static gconf translations, use gettext at runtime" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123025
<pitti> hm, I get the same error with gconf-editor
<pitti> seb128: ok, nevermind; works with /apps/baobab/ui/toolbar_visible
<Keybuk> http://blogs.gnome.org/mortenw/2009/01/21/the-gtk-file-chooser-dialog/
<Keybuk> I've seen that myself many times
<seb128> re
<seb128> pitti: sorry I was fighting the new gdm on my laptop and not looking at IRC
<pitti> seb128: no problem, all set
<seb128> didrocks: could be useful there too
<pitti> seb128: I'm pretty surprised that gconf-schemas is a debianism; /var/lib/gconf/defaults/ doesn't look like being used from upstream?
<didrocks> seb128: ok. I will put a note about it
<seb128> pitti: no, they use /etc/gconf/schemas by default but using etc is against the debian policy
<crevette> Keybuk, this is fixed in gtk 2.15.x
<crevette> Keybuk, however I think patching libgtk for intrepid would be nice, because I was upset by this bug
<seb128> it doesn't happen every time
<seb128> it's only cosmetic, the change is not trivial and intrepid is not a lts
<crevette> seb128, yeah, in epi it happen 2nd time I need filechooser
<seb128> ie I doubt it'll be backported if there is not somebody interested doing the work
<Keybuk> crevette: what was the bug?
<Keybuk> I figured it had something to do with compiz?
<crevette> no at all
<crevette> this is the codre of filechooser
<crevette> code
<Keybuk> oh right
<Keybuk> the reason I figured it had something do with compiz is that when it's appeared
<Keybuk> it appears at that size
<seb128> Keybuk: it's federico who did too much code simplication when cleaning the code some time ago
<Keybuk> but the file chooser is being rendered normally
<Keybuk> just at 1/2 scale
<crevette> the upstream bug is closed now as federico commit new code to fix that
<Keybuk> all the text, buttons, widgets are half the size
<Keybuk> then it refreshes to be normal scale, half the window size
<seb128> bug #285285
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285285 in gtk+2.0 "GtkFileChooser dialog size randomly broken" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285285
<seb128> gnome bug #558776
<ubottu> Gnome bug 558776 in GtkFileChooser "Filechooser size sometimes too small" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=558776
<glatzor> mvo, hello, would you please upload packagekit and packagekit-gnome 0.3.13?
<mvo> glatzor: sure
<mvo> glatzor: what is the current lp branch name?
<mvo> glatzor: lp:~packagekit/pakcagekit/ubuntu-packagekit ?
<mvo> 0.3.13-0ubvuntu1?
<glatzor> mvo, correct.
<mvo> glatzor: ok, I fix the changelog and upload then (sitll has UNRELEASED in it)
<glatzor> mvo, i thought only the uploader should change the distro
<mvo> glatzor: yeah, I never was so strict about that
<mvo> glatzor: its fine, I just wanted to make sure there is no left over commit or anything
<glatzor> mvo, is there an easy way to keep configuration for packges in debian/ but not build them?
<mvo> glatzor: how do you mean? could could have a debian/rules.not-active in the source for example that would work
<glatzor> mvo, if packagekit wants to go into main I should not build some of the more obscure packages, e.g the yum and smart backend, mozilla plugin, gstreamer installer
<mvo> glatzor: that should be fine, those stuff can still go to universe
<mvo> glatzor: and just packagekit itself goes to main
<glatzor> mvo, are there any modifications required in the packaging? or is this an archive admin job?
<mvo> glatzor: no modifications required, that is purely a archive thing (well, aisde from a MainInclusionReport)
<mvo> glatzor: I guess riddell will write that anyway, no?
<glatzor> mvo, right.
<mvo> how is the qt frontend shaping up?
<pochu> asac: it only happens with the [NEW] mails, the rest are correctly threaded it seems
<glatzor> mvo, you can install it from the ppa. it seems to work.
<asac> pochu: ah. yeah. those are even misthreaded in mutt
<asac> pochu: definitly a launchpad prob imo
<glatzor> mvo, it seems that suse picks up packagekit seriously
<pochu> asac: hmm, also when the summary is changed (and thus the subject changes) it starts a new thread
<mvo> glatzor: in what sense? what backend do they use with it? the yast one?
<glatzor> mvo, zyppy
<pochu> asac: but References seems to be correctly set
<pochu> asac: I will try to update to TB 3 and see how it behaves
<pochu> asac: thanks for the heads up :)
<mvo> glatzor: how useful is the yum backend on a ubuntu system?
<pochu> s/heads up/advice/
<crevette> glatzor, mvo, is the packagekit better with deb distro now than few months ago ?
<crevette> I thought it tested it last summer
<glatzor> crevette, which issues did you encounter?
<crevette> for instance after refreshing the list of updated packages in pkgkit, it won't see the packages to update
<crevette> and I had various errors message with dbus and locking I believe
<glatzor> crevette, the first one is fixed
<glatzor> crevette, please write a bug report, if you see the error messages again
<crevette> glatzor, okay I'll give it a try, I installed just few days to try it, but I removed it quickly
<glatzor> mvo, the yum backend is only build because there is yum in Debian :)
<glatzor> mvo, I use it for testing sometimes.
<glatzor> mvo, but indeed it is confusing.
<glatzor> mvo, I will remove the yum backend on the next upload. or is the upload still pending?
<mvo> glatzor: just uploaded it, I don't really mind the backend, I was just curious :)
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> does anybody know where seb128 is?
<crevette> hey dholbach
<crevette> happy new year
<dholbach> crevette: and the same to you!
<crevette> seb128_ est parti (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
<dholbach> he's supposed to give a session in #ubuntu-classroom in 14m :)
<crevette> perhaps he lost its internet access
<crevette> aaah
<dholbach> SEB128!
<dholbach> Pushing out GNOME releases to millions of users!
<seb128> hey dholbach
<hggdh> seb128, ping, good morning and another difference on EDS trunk has surfaced
<seb128> dholbach: , yeah, still 10 minutes right?
<dholbach> seb128: yep, all the time in the world
<seb128> hggdh: hi, which one?
<didrocks> seb128: dholbach just began to worry :)
<seb128> didrocks: trying to get the new gdm to work
<hggdh> seb128, libical is now an external depends
<seb128> so lot's of session restart, not worth starting IRC between
<seb128> hggdh: right I noticed they were working on that
<hggdh> current libical we ship is 0.33, eds requires 0.43
<didrocks> seb128: good luck, seems to be a hard stuff (I looked at the it a little bit, following the desktop team meeting)
<seb128> we will need to update, version updates are not really an issue
<seb128> didrocks: thanks
<hggdh> OK, will open an upgrade request
<hggdh> seb128, done
<seb128> hggdh: what is done?
<seb128> sorry got a presentation starting now ;-)
<hggdh> seb128, the upgrade request for libical
<seb128> hggdh: re, sorry I got sidetracked by the presentation on the other channel
<seb128> hggdh: did you open the request to debian or on launchpad or both?
<seb128> pochu: thanks for forwarding the questions between the channels
<pochu> seb128: yw
<didrocks> seb128: I think we don't ship upstream *.scores and use the ones provided by postinst?
<seb128> didrocks: right
<crevette> hello
<crevette> hey gents
<hggdh> seb128, just in LP right now
<crevette> do you have some tarball I can package
<crevette> hggdh: he left
<hggdh> crevette, just noticed... thanks
<crevette> I take vinagre / vino if you don't care
<mvo> ember: thatnks for your brasero update, I'm happy to sponsor it
<didrocks> Nafallo: there?
<Nafallo> didrocks: hi
<didrocks> Hi :)
<hggdh> question: if an updated version of a package exists in Debian, and there are no local changes, is this an upgrade or sync request?
<didrocks> Nafallo: I am looking for adding lpi to a python software. I saw there used to be one for gajim and I cherrypicked it
<didrocks> Nafallo: but in 0.12~beta1-0ubuntu1 you dropped it. And I wonder why :)
<didrocks> (away for half an hour, but I will read your answer then ;))
<asomething> hggdh: if there are no Ubuntu changes, then it would be a sync
<hggdh> asomething, thanks, I will correct the bug I opened
<Nafallo> didrocks: cause we didn't use it at all. just added complexity I didn't need.
<Nafallo> didrocks: i.e. the stuff was there, but we didn't use LP as the lp-integration was supposed to be used.
<didrocks> Nafallo: ok. this is not because of lpi no more supported for python in jaunty (I was afraid of that :))
<didrocks> Nafallo: thanks a lot for your answer
<Nafallo> didrocks: no worries.
<Amaranth> So I just wasted two hours looking to see what KDE and GNOME do differently when changing cursor themes that would make compiz update the cursors in KDE but not in GNOME
<Amaranth> Turns out kde-window-decorator checks for these changes and updates itself, compiz never updates it's two visible cursors
<Amaranth> *sigh*
<Amaranth> And kde-window-decorator seems to update these cursors every time you move your mouse (!)
<Amaranth> mvo: The fullscreen stacking fixes patch should be in git now, btw
<Amaranth> working on the cursor theme one now
<pochu> so no webkit for 2.26
<dobey> \o/
<mvo> you rock Amaranth
<crevette> I update epiphany
<Amaranth> mvo: Do you know if any of the drivers that support compiz still default to XAA? I'm a bit out of the loop there
<Amaranth> I know intel defaults to EXA, what about ati?
<johanbr> Amaranth: -ati in jaunty uses exa, https://bugs.launchpad.net/xserver-xorg-driver-ati/+bug/269357
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269357 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[Needs EXA] Video playback failes with compiz enabled" [High,Fix released]
<mvo> Amaranth: I don't know, #ubuntu-x will know for sure
<crevette> seb128: hi, bratche was looking for you on {gnome-hackers
<seb128> crevette: hello, you know why?
<crevette> no
<crevette> damn I wondered why my sponsor request for vinagre was still no pushed... dumb em as usual
<Amaranth> mvo: Ok, since intel and ati both use exa we can probably drop that first patch
<Amaranth> mvo: the one that sets the _COMPIZ_GL_INCLUDE_INFERIORS or whatever
<mvo> Amaranth: fine with me, its a devel release, people will yell if it breaks something :)
<didrocks> seb128: I have reworked on (and hopefully fixed) gnome-games: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~didrocks/gnome-games/ubuntu
<didrocks> and for bonus point, I added LPI to glchess and gnome-sudoku (python games) :)
<seb128> didrocks: excellent
<asomething> seb128: Hi, when you get a chance, could you take a look at bug #319400
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 319400 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] evolution-mapi " [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/319400
<seb128> asomething: hey, I read it and planned to comment but that has been a busy day, I need to ping the server team about the openchange and samba syncs
<seb128> e-d-s and evo need to be updated to 2.25, did you do that? are you interested to work on those updates?
<seb128> we might wait for next tarballs to upload though because they screwed a soname which is fixed in svn now
<asomething> seb128: i just built them locally
<seb128> they had some configure version lower in 2.25 compared to 2.24
<seb128> let me know if you are interest by doing the 2.25 jaunty updates, that would be welcome, I'm already quite busy on other things and keep delaying those
<asomething> seb128: the openchange and samba syncs also aren't essential, but my real issues is that compile problem mentioned in the report
<didrocks> seb128: I can handle one or two tomorrow if that can help
<seb128> asomething: I need to ask upstream or the server team about that
<seb128> asomething: I'll update the bug tomorrow it's late for them now
<asomething> seb128: great, thanks
<seb128> thank you for your work ;-)
<crevette> seb128: I finished to put the vinagre update from 2 weeks ago in lp and I did the vino update of today
<seb128> crevette: thanks
<crevette> bah, so little work
<crevette> not a problem :)
<asomething> seb128: i can't commit to doing the e-d-s/evo upgrades right now, i'll check in tomorrow and can probably take them if no one else wants to
<asomething> seb128: libgweather will have to get updated for them, i just disabled it when building locally
<seb128> asomething: they are waiting for a while so if you want to do those you have time, they can get uploaded next week for example
<seb128> I started on this one but I've a build issue remaining
<lovlexir> Him somebody know how reconfigure my GDM ??
<seb128> I'll try to get it done tomorrow
<lovlexir> Hi, somebody know how reconfigure my GDM ??
<seb128> lovlexir: sudo gdmsetup and click?
<lovlexir> but i canÂ´t login in graphic intercafe...
<lovlexir> from terminal can i access?
<didrocks> time to go to bed. Have a good night/day everyone :-)
<lovlexir> i install some packages for multimeia, from soundforge and anoter, and from there the Xserver do not start....
<lovlexir> Â«didrocksÂ» good night :)
<lovlexir> any talk spanish :$
<lovlexir> somebody ? :'(
<seb128> lovlexir: try #ubuntu, this channel is one where people work not one for user questions
<lovlexir> sorry
<hggdh> seb128, I changed the upgrade request for libical to a sync request -- debian already has libical-0.4.3 in Sid
<seb128> hggdh: excellent ;-)
<hggdh> so now we have two blocks on going to Evo 2.25.4/5 on Jaunty: libical and libpst
<hggdh> 2.25.5, to be more correct
<seb128> hggdh: we will likely wait for next tarballs, the configure version were lower in 2.25 than 2.24 for some reason, I noticed that when looking at the update and srag fixed it to svn today
<seb128> hggdh: doing the 2.25 update would require to lower a soname to update it again in the next upload
<seb128> hggdh: you want to subscribe the main sponsor team since libical is in main now
<seb128> hggdh: don't bother I do sync it now
<hggdh> seb128, thank you
<seb128> you're welcome
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-01-22
<crevette> hello there
<seb128> mvo: hey
<seb128> mvo: do you have a minute, I've some questions for you ;-)
<seb128> didrocks: lut
<seb128> didrocks: good job on the gnome-games update ;-)
<mvo> seb128: sure
<seb128> mvo: ok, so didrocks did update gnome-games
<didrocks> seb128: thanks (and hi :))
<seb128> mvo: on lp:~/didrocks/gnome-games/ubuntu, the update is good to be uploaded but how do we move that to standard bzr location? ;-)
<seb128> I can do the source upload, I'm not sure what to do with the bzr though
<mvo> seb128: if you have it on your system already as a checkand *and* you actually want to put it into bzr, then just run "bzr push lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-games/ubuntu"
<mvo> it will remember that
<didrocks> seb128: it's time to setup a wiki page :-)
<didrocks> mvo: you have to create the corresponding branch on LP, first, no ?
<seb128> didrocks: heh ;-)
<mvo> if you want to make it behave like a checkout (on your local system) run a "bzr bind lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-games/ubuntu" too (but the former command is enough)
<mvo> didrocks: if there is a gnome-games project already the push should work
<seb128> mvo: no, I will sponsor the upload now, we just decided to switch gnome-games to bzr so the code should be somewhere else than the didrocks codepage for that no?
<mvo> (lp is a bit picky about stuff that it does not ahve a project for)
<mvo> seb128: yeah, if you want to stick with bzr, just push your local tree to the lp:~ubuntu-desktop/ .. location, that should be fine
<didrocks> mvo: ok, because I remember that I had to create first the branch in my repo, and then push ... --existing-dir
<seb128> $ bzr push lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-games/ubuntu
<seb128> Using default stacking branch /~vcs-imports/gnome-games/main at bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-desktop/gnome-games/
<seb128> mvo: what does that mean?
<didrocks> seb128: I understood that. It was only a technical question :) (for LP push)
<mvo> seb128: I have not come across this one yet, but I think its just to tell you that it knows about this branch already (sort of) and uses the other branch to avoid data duplication on the server
<seb128> ok
<mvo> seb128: I think it has no meaning on the client (your side)
<seb128> let's try to bzr get lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-games/ubuntu now
<mvo> didrocks: oh? interessting
<seb128> can one of you try that?
<seb128> seems to be working for me
<didrocks> let me try
<mvo> didrocks: I know that I sometimes have to do a "--create-prefix" when I push, but that happens only very rarely for me these days
<didrocks> seb128: it works
<mvo> looks good here too
<seb128> ok, thanks didrocks mvo
<didrocks> mvo: --create-prefix is the old repository format and is included by default now
<didrocks> mvo: I will give it a try for next update and store the exact message
<mvo> didrocks: aha, nice. thanks (learned something new again :)
<seb128> mvo: next one is a bug for you ;-)
 * mvo hides
<mvo> bzr > bugs
<mvo> bzr >> bugs even :P
<seb128> mvo: yet another of those installation bug I don't understand ;-)
<seb128> mvo: bug #319922
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 319922 in evolution-data-server "package libgdata1.2-1 2.24.2-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: package libgdata1.2-1 is already installed and configured" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/319922
<seb128> mvo: and bug #319921 which seems to be a duplicate
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 319921 in evolution-data-server "package libgdata-google1.2-1 2.24.2-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: package libgdata-google1.2-1 is already installed and configured" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/319921
 * mvo scratches head
<mvo> hrm, that happens on a stable system?
<seb128> mvo: it seems
<mvo> it might be a bug in apt when it caclculates how to driver dpkg
<mvo> I wish I could reproduce it, I have seen some that look similar (very few fortunately, but few is still too many)
<mvo> :/
<seb128> mvo: you probably have a better clue than me about that, I'm just confident that's not a e-d-s bug ;-)
<mvo> I move it to apt
<seb128> mvo: thanks, the other one is a duplicate?
<seb128> mvo: that's all for you for now, thanks ;-)
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<seb128> didrocks: oh, btw usually we copy the NEWS summary in the changelog rather than listing "new version (lp: nnnnnnnnn)
<seb128> didrocks: ie
<seb128> * new upstream version:
<seb128> - start faster than the previous one (lp: #nnnnnnn)
<seb128> - etc
<seb128> didrocks: so people reading the changelog have a clue about what get fixed and users like to know what's new ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: you did that for later updates :)
<seb128> didrocks: did what?
<didrocks> seb128: I usually do that. But there were too and too many lines
<didrocks> (see the changelog of a previous version)
<seb128> didrocks: right, that's why I did sponsor this one and just told you that as a sidenote ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: ok, but I thought about it. It's just that if I had copied the full NEWS since last version, I thing the changelog would be unreadable
<didrocks> seb128: was it the right solution?
<didrocks> (away for at least 2 hours, at a meeting :/)
<seb128> didrocks: I usually copy the NEWS for the current versions, not all the versions for the update
<seb128> didrocks: good meeting!
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> hello seb128
<huats> sorry for not posting any stuffs update on LP yesterday...
<seb128> huats: that's ok, I've been busy too
<huats> ok
<huats> some are ready to ship...
<huats> I just want to test them
<mvo> seb128: ha! I *think* the issue is that something got killed or crashed during the package install this is why the error is there. so (hopefully) not a apt/dpkg bug :)
<mvo> just general robustness of our tools :(
<seb128> ok
<andreasn> mpt_, http://www.bani.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/vino1.png <- would it be ok to call the header "Show notification area icon" and the options "Always", "Only when there is someone connected" and "Never"?
<mpt> andreasn, even then it wouldn't tell me anything
<mpt> Why would anyone want to "Show notification area icon"?
<mpt> Because it looks pretty?
<mpt> What does it do?
<andreasn> I was mostly interested in if it's good to say something in a header of in the radiobuttons (although repeating stuff)
<andreasn> or in the radiobuttons
<andreasn> I assume the options is so people can show to what amount they want to cram more weird symbols into the right top of their screens
<pochu> andreasn: sounds good to me
<pochu> mpt: because for security reasons you may want to know when somebody is remotely controlling or viewing your desktop
<pochu> having it always displayed is a bit useless IMHO, but I understand the use case for having it when there are connections
<seb128> pochu: hey
<seb128> pochu: do you look at vino and vinagre bugs on launchpad?
<pochu> seb128: yeah
<mpt> pochu, andreasn, ok, then replace it with a checkbox :-)
<pochu> jwendell too
<seb128> pochu: ok, because the vinagre list seems to be lagging behind in triaging, I did look at it quickly while sponsoring the 2.25 update crevette did
<pochu> seb128: I'm gonna see if I can reproduce bug #318708
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 318708 in vino "Notification always appears even when disabled - Jaunty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/318708
<pochu> seb128: ok, I'll have a look at it
<seb128> pochu: I don't get this issue here, thanks
<pochu> seb128: with the latest update?
<seb128> oh, I didn't upgrade yet
<pochu> it was opened before the update
<pochu> IIUC, it says if you disable it completely, the icon will be shown when somebody is connected
<mpt> andreasn, if your question was strictly about the grammar, then yes, your header would be fine
<andreasn> mpt, great, thanks
<mpt> Except that it shouldn't really be a header
<mpt> It should be non-bold and end with a colon
<andreasn> oh
<andreasn> totally unrelated question, are you going to be in London in the middle of February?
<mpt> Miscellaneous points: can't that foot icon die already; "connectivity" has two "n"s; "You must confirm" should be "Ask for confirmation before"; and "Talk to the router and try to open the doors there" is just weird.
<mpt> andreasn, yes, I'll be back in London from Feb 9th
<andreasn> ok, I'll fix the spinner icon today. I have been having some issues testing it out, but I'll have a friend double-test it for me
<andreasn> I'll make it the same as in Firefox
<mpt> very good :-)
<andreasn> cool, I haven't booked any flight tickets yet, but I'm staying at Thomas Wood's place
<mpt> Those bold headings seem often overused in Gnome
<mpt> I don't think I've met Thomas Wood
<andreasn> thos on irc
<andreasn> he works at OHand/Intel
<andreasn> or just Intel I guess
<mpt> Evolution's Preferences are a trove of examples of overuse of headings
<andreasn> if you fix Evo's setting to be sane, I owe you a pair of pants
<andreasn> or a hat, if you rather want a hat
<mpt> featuring content-free headings such as "Configuration", "Options", "Default Behavior", and "General"
<mpt> Oh, redesigning them to be sane would be easy, implementing it would be harder :-)
<andreasn> maybe a tall one, like Abraham Lincoln had
<mpt> stovepipe, yeah!
<mpt> nah, I'm more a cheesecutter sort of person
<andreasn> we tend to call it old-mans-cap
<andreasn> I use one on a regular basis. Just wish I had something to cover my ears with when it's cold and windy
<pochu> GConf:ERROR:gconf-internals.c:637:gconf_value_type_to_string: code should not be reached
<pochu> doesn't sound like a vinagre issue (bug 306957)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 306957 in vinagre "package vinagre 2.24.1-0ubuntu1.1 failed to install/upgrade: subproces post-installation script gaf een foutwaarde 250 terug" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/306957
<crevette> pochu, could it an error from gconfd ?
<crevette> I don't understand how gconf code from vinagre could be invoked during installation
<pochu> crevette: yeah, vinagre calls update-gconf-defaults in the postinst
<pochu> to register vnc://
<pochu> shall I reassign it to gconf2?
<crevette> I would do that with seb128 validation
<seb128> jaunty is still not user switching friendly there, the system hangs, still replies to ping but not to ssh
<crevette> seb128, pochu were wondering if https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vinagre/+bug/306957 could be a gconfd problem
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 306957 in vinagre "package vinagre 2.24.1-0ubuntu1.1 failed to install/upgrade: subproces post-installation script gaf een foutwaarde 250 terug" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> right it is
<seb128> that's not happening to everybody though so the local file probably got changed for some reason
<seb128> could be a disk issue or similar triggering the bug
<pochu> seb128: thanks, reassigning to gconf2
<pochu> ok, lots of vinagre bugs triaged; will finish with that at other moment. Now gotta study!
<seb128> pochu: cool, good work ;-)
<seb128> pochu: the vinagre bug has been fixed to svn now apparently
<pochu> cool
<pochu> the vino one you mean :)
<seb128> pochu: right
<didrocks> seb128: let's say it was a good meeting :)
<huats> seb128: it is better now : http://paste.ubuntu.com/108201/
<didrocks> seb128: ok, so, you only copy from the NEWS file the last version, not all the delta (I merged the delta in my previous updates, but here, as it was a very long report, I was afraid to make the changelog unclear)
<didrocks> I will do as you said
<seb128> huats: indeed
<huats> i am going to eat now, i'll finish after
<seb128> enjoy
<huats> thanks seb128
<didrocks> seb128: FYI, we can't rm debian/control from bzr, because when you want to build a package, there is a check to see if debian/control exists *before* executing debian/rules clean (which generate, in most of the case, debian/control)
<seb128> didrocks: right
<didrocks> seb128: thanks for sponsoring too :)
<seb128> you're welcome, thanks for the work you are doing ;-)
<didrocks> if you have anything I can deal with, it should be possible today :-)
<seb128> didrocks: want something easy or a small challenge? ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: small challenge is better for learning :)
<didrocks> (as well as "middle size" challenge)
<didrocks> ;)
<seb128> didrocks: gnome-python-extras need merging on debian and update
<didrocks> great! I am on it :-)
<seb128> they splitted the binaries in extra packages and ubuntu add -dbg variants
<didrocks> ok, so, I will see if we need more -dbg variants corresponding to the extra packages
<didrocks> and what should go where :)
<seb128> good
<seb128> I think the debian way is to have one -dbg built for everything
 * mpt wonders why the Calculator icon has the word "cocoa" on it
<mpt> Is that some sort of in-joke?
<didrocks> mpt: you remind me of something... At my company, the developpers changed a bunch of icons in christmas tree icons last christmas. The testing team, in India, opened a bunch of incident request to fix this regression :)
<huats> seb128: when I run a autoreconf in a patch, do I need to always use the --force parameter ?
<seb128> huats: no
<huats> seb128: ok
<huats> (i was asking, since I was looking at some notes I took after a chat we had some time ago)
<seb128> huats: I think Keybuk said it's not required and can create some issues, you might want to check with him though
<huats> seb128: ok
<huats> :)
<huats> Keybuk: I'll be quite interested to know more then :)
 * didrocks thinks that Keybuk should really do an autotools classroom next UDW :)
<huats> didrocks: yeah !
<crevette> ah yeah autotools would be nice
<seb128> indeed
<pochu> ++
<seb128> ok, new gdm seems to be working for me now
 * seb128 writes email to the ubuntu-desktop list now 
<ember> hey mvo , about brasero, you are talking about merging the brasero-common on brasero package?
<pochu> asac: could it be that launchpad new bugs having a "References: $Message-Id" confuses Thunderbird?
<pochu> e.g.
<pochu> References: <20081102033117.25404.42581.malonedeb@gangotri.canonical.com>
<pochu> Message-Id: <20081102033117.25404.42581.malonedeb@gangotri.canonical.com>
<pochu> that happens in all [NEW] bugmail
<asac> pochu: maybe. does that happen on normal mailing lists too for first mesasge?
<pochu> asac: nope
<asac> pochu: note that its the same for mutt here iirc
<pochu> so maybe it confuses every mail app ;)
<pochu> I think I'm gonna file a bug report in malone
<seb128> confuse things how?
<pochu> seb128: all the replies are in a different thread than the [NEW] mail
<seb128> pochu: that's not an issue when using evolution thouigh
<seb128> though
<pochu> so if it's that what confuses TB, it would be worth fixing both in malone and TB :)
<pochu> (I guess, I don't know how these things work)
<asac> hmm seems mutt works too - must have been something else in the past that caused this. still i dont think its right to reference the mail itself on first message
<asac> pochu: so malone + tbird please
<asac> pochu: also subscribe me explicitly to the bug
<asac> (s)
<pochu> asac: ok
<pochu> asac: same bug with 2 tasks, or 2 bugs?
<asac> pochu: make that a tbird bug and add malone task too
<pochu> ok
<asac> pochu: have you tested tbird 3?
<asac> (or did i say that i tested that ;))
<asac> ?
<asac> seems so
<asac> ok file
<pochu> asac: I haven't yet
<asac> i just tested
<huats> seb128: the gnome-system-monitor and the deskbar-applet updates are on LP
<seb128> huats: thanks
<huats> seb128: no pb
<huats> happy to help :)
<seb128> huats: ;-)
<seb128> huats: we are mostly uptodate now, you can work on the universe packages you had in your todolist
<seb128> or do some non ubuntu activies for a change ;-)
<huats> seb128: I will :)
<huats> thanks ;)
<huats> I will take care of the gnome-keyring first... but then anjuta is waiting for me (with ALL that is means :))
<pochu> asac: bug 320034; you're subscribed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320034 in thunderbird "Launchpad bugmail having the References header referencing itself confuses Thunderbird threading" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320034
<asac> thx
<asac> pochu: could you make a mbox file with a single thread that shows the problem?
<pochu> asac: how can I do that from TB?
<asac> pochu: no clue ;)
<asac> pochu: what you could try is to spin tbird-3.0 with the following patch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/108227/
<asac> that prevents self-references from being added to the msg references index ...
<asac> the other solution would be to fix the threading algorithm, so that it properly deals with self-references
<asac> but that would require me to actually read the code  ... so i did this for now
 * asac should resurrect his tbird build tree
<pochu> and the other solution would be to wait for the Launchpad folks to fix their mails... but that won't fix my old threads so better fix it in TB too :)
<pochu> will look at it. but launch first :)
<asac> who knows. maybe its even legal ;)
<crevette__> seb128, do you have a plan to update gtk to 2.15.0 ? I'd be interested to package and test epiphany 2.25
<crevette__> which requires irt
<seb128> crevette__: I did start on it a week ago but got stucked it's an hard update
<crevette> ah okay
<seb128> it's in the next items on my list
<crevette> hard on which items ?
<seb128> the directfb backend
<seb128> nobody is working on it upstream and it doesn't build
<seb128> but it's required in debian and ubuntu because the alternate cd uses it
<crevette> I though it was no more supported officially
<seb128> it's used by the debian installer
<seb128> that's the issue, upstream might not work on it but we need to keep it building
<seb128> anyway I've that next in my list
<seb128> let's see how it goes
<crevette> I don't want to put pressure on you
<crevette> sorry
<seb128> I'll probably do the update next week, I want to do some srus tomorrow before
<seb128> there is no pressure, I've started on it as said and it's on my todolist ;-)
<crevette> seb128, is there a written doc to perform a packaging, with testing ? I do test my package but no programmatically, I act as a user, I know you do more check like APIs.
<crevette> perhaps you explain that yesterday during the presentation ?
<crevette> explained
<seb128> the wiki has some documentation
<seb128> nothing specific to desktop updates though
<seb128> that's something we should do better
<crevette> I eager to write a wiki page  :)
<seb128> do it ;-)
<crevette> and everybody will know py process is the suck :)
<crevette> :)
<seb128> it's not!
<mvo> seb128: could you please sync gnome-codec-install from incoming?
<Quintasan> um, I'm trying to update brasero package from 0.9.0 to 0.9.1 (just to check if I can do it ;). There is a patch (010_lpi.patch) that can't be applied. http://wklej.org/id/42934/  Here is build log. What should I do with it?
<mvo> ember: well, if there is stuff that the lib and brasreo have in comon I'm fine with a comon package. I have not really looked closely
<mvo> ember: but if there is not, I guess we can skip a -common
<crevette> Quintasan, you should update the patch to make it apply on the source, certainly the code patched on the previous version has changed
<johanbr> crevette: the changelog for nautilus-sendto 1.1.1-0ubuntu1 says it has an empathy plugin, but it looks like the plugin is not actually there.
<johanbr> But maybe you noticed this already...
<crevette> johanbr, the plugin can be installed because empathu is in universe, and we can't depend on universe component
<crevette> same goes for upnp plugin
<Quintasan> crevette: seems like this is beyond my ability :<
<crevette> Quintasan, I could help you but the patch system is quilt that I don't know
<johanbr> crevette: ahh, okay. Do you plan to package the empathy plugin separately?
<seb128> Quintasan: somebody already did the update apparently, better to ask on the chan or check on launchpad for open bugs before starting
<crevette> johanbr, I don't know if it is possible, I think seb128 told me it was not
<johanbr> oh :(
<seb128> johanbr: we will not split the source and we can't build-depends on things which are in universe
<crevette> let's move empathy to pain :)
<seb128> johanbr: do you know if it's actually required to build? gajim does look for the binary but doesn't actually require it, we patched it to build the gajim code anyway and it's used at runtime if gajim is installed
<crevette> main
<seb128> crevette: ok, do you want to maintain it?
<crevette> :)
<crevette> unfortunately I would be a horriblem maintainer
<ember> mvo ok i will have a look thanks
<mvo> thanks ember
<johanbr> seb128: sorry... is what required to build what?
<crevette> seb128, I think empathy is required to build if you look at http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/nautilus-sendto/trunk/src/plugins/empathy/empathy.c?revision=378&view=markup
<seb128> right
<johanbr> oh, now I see what you mean...
<seb128> johanbr: libs which are in universe
<seb128> the gajim plugin uses dbus calls so that's easier ;-)
<crevette> gajim plugin uses just plain dbus call
<crevette> ah too late
<seb128> I guess somebody could do a source nautilus-sendto-universe which build a binary having the code which require universe depends
<Zdra> in theory you can also use only dbus API to make the same thing, but it would the same as reimplementing parts of libempathy-gtk
<crevette> seb128, the upnp plugin seems interesting too to have
<seb128> crevette: it requires gnupnp though, is that already packaged in debian or ubuntu?
<crevette> I think yes
<crevette> let me check
<crevette> since intrepid
<johanbr> seb128: but the plugins are completely separate from the main nautilus-sendto, aren't they?
<Nafallo> Gajim \âº/
<seb128> johanbr: a package in main can't use universe to build
<seb128> johanbr: the nautilus-sendto source is in main since it's installed by default
<johanbr> seb128: Sure. But wouldn't it be possible to just package nautilus-sendto-plugins-universe, which just depends on  nautilus-sendto in main?
<Nafallo> johanbr: split the source?
<seb128> johanbr: read what I wrote some lines before?
<Quintasan> seb128: Launchpad says the newest version is 0.9.0. So I thought I could try to build it :P
<Nafallo> seb128: demote source, keep binary in main and new binary in universe... i.e. pain :-)
<seb128> Quintasan: that's the current one, look at the bugs list too ;-)
<seb128> Nafallo: you can't have binary in main and the corresponding source in universe
<Nafallo> seb128: that's what I wrote, yes :-)
<seb128> no, you wrote demote source ;-)
<Nafallo> seb128: which means to put the source into universe :-)
<seb128> which we can't do because it has binaries on the cd
<seb128> oh, you mean duplicate the source in universe
<johanbr> I guess this would be a splitting, but since the plugins are separate, it would be a pretty natural one.
<Nafallo> have been done before... ;-)
<johanbr> Anyway, not my decision...
<Nafallo> seb128: oooh. that would work as well actually.
<seb128> what I wrote
<seb128> create a nautilus-s
<seb128> create a nautilus-sendto-universe and make it build a nautilus-sendto-universe binary which ship only the extra options and depends on nautilus-sendto
<seb128> I would sponsor such work but I'm too busy to work on that myself though
 * Nafallo pops off for a call
<seb128> so if anybody wants to work on that let me know
<crevette> I'll try to do that
<crevette> if nobody wants to do it
<asac> pochu: ok the patch seems to work. you just have to recreate the index files (e.g. remove .msf)
<asac> pochu: ok forwarded. its mozilla bug 474790
<ubottu> Mozilla bug 474790 in MailNews: Backend "mails with References: to itself break threading in thunderbird mailnews DB view backend" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=474790
<ember> mvo updated.
<huats> seb128: the gnome-system-monitor build fails...
<huats> :(
<huats> weird...
<huats> I'll have a look
<seb128> huats: that will teach me to start trusting you enough to upload things without test building first on my install ;-)
<huats> seb128: but it builds here !
<seb128> huats: I know what went wrong
<huats> seb128: I just did it again, after I have seen that
<huats> what it is ?
<seb128> huats: you moved the new patch first in the serie so the lpi changes were not applied when you updated it
<seb128> ie, the autoreconf changes don't have the lpi configure changes
<seb128> huats: you need to list autoreconf after lpi in the series
<huats> oh
<huats> I haven't touched the order of the patches...
<seb128> huats: you did update the serie in some way
<huats> I don't know why it did that :(
<huats> yeah I understand your point...
<seb128> huats: if you used quilt new it added it at the start
<huats> seb128: may be...
<huats> probably
<huats> I am fixing it
<huats> the thing is : why it builds here fine, and why the lpi is done correctly here ?
<huats> :(
<seb128> it probably built for you because the build system detected that configure.in changed after configure and ran the autotools again during the build, they are not installed on the buildd though
<huats> ok
<huats> I understand
<huats> pffff :(
<huats> sorry for that...
<seb128> you still need to learn ;-)
<seb128> that's ok
<huats> seb128: of course I still need to learn...
<huats> I am not the one who brings gnome to millions :)
<huats> btw how did the session went ?
<seb128> okish I guess, there was enough question to be busy for the hour ;-)
<seb128> let's see if that brings new contributors now ;-)
<huats> great
<huats> :)
<seb128> huats: but you do bring GNOME updates to millions of users ;-)
<huats> :)
<huats> once it is done I put the new .dsc and the new .diff on the same bug or I open anotherone ?
<seb128> you can use the same one, or just a debdiff there
<seb128> basically edit the series, move the patches order there, refresh the autoreconf changes and build
<huats> yep
<crevette> heya
<huats> seb128: do I need to update the package version number ? I am not really sure
<seb128> huats: yes
<huats> seb128: pl :(
<seb128> huats: the revision, ie -0ubuntu2
<huats> seb128: sorry :(
<huats> seb128: I need to go now... I'll post it on LP tonight
<huats> i am way too late now :(
<huats> sorry :(
<seb128> huats: ok, that's alright not hurry, you can fix it tomorrow too
<huats> it is building... so we'll be soon fixed :)
<huats> it is just putting on LP that I can't do now :)
<huats> bye
<chrisccoulson> anyone know how i'm meant to handle updating a package to its new upstream version when upstream changed their version numbering scheme between releases (so the new version has an 'older' version number than the old version)
<crevette> chrisccoulson: how is it possible ?
<chrisccoulson> i was asking how i'm meant to handle it?
<crevette> out of curiosity, which package
<chrisccoulson> ntfs-3g
<crevette> I bet the version should prepend a version superior like 2:0.3.4
<Prolescum> Hey guys. Not sure if this is the right channel... Anybody know how to get ushare working with intrepid?
<chrisccoulson> that seems sensible
<chrisccoulson> thanks crevette
<crevette> I don't know if this is the right way to do
<crevette> perhaps insulting the maintainer is another option
<crevette> :)
<chrisccoulson> perhaps. i need to speak with the debian maintainer really to see if it is acceptable to them
<crevette> yeah
<crevette> ah I see 1.555 -> 1.1
<crevette> what an idea
<crevette> ah no 2009.1.1
<chrisccoulson> actually, i just checked again and the current jaunty version is 1.2531 (i forgot the 1), so the new version does actually have a newer version number
<chrisccoulson> i thought the old upstream number was just 2531 (so 2009.1.1 would be an older version to dpkg)
<crevette> chrisccoulson: the version is 1:1.2531-1.1ubuntu2 notice the 1: it already has
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i just noticed that
<crevette> but you right to contact the debian maintainer
<chrisccoulson> i think i need to speak with the debian maintainer and see how they want to handle it
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll do that
<pochu> asac: awesome! thank you :)
 * pitti grabs a lock on the gconf package
<dobey> pitti: !
<pitti> hey dobey
<pitti> my patch finally works \o]
<pitti> \o/ actually (no, I don't have a broken arm)
<dobey> pitti: are your slids from your lunch talk at UDS about mail filters easily available anywhere? (or just the list of filters would be fine)
<dobey> hehe
<pitti> dobey: they are, http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/talks/
<pitti> including (LaTeX) source
<pitti> dobey: also, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFilter
<dobey> pitti: great! thanks!
<pitti> dobey: glad you like it :)
<dobey> pitti: i think it's about time i added some super magic to my procmail as i start using lp more and more :)
<rickspencer3>   /away
<calc> I HATE EVOLUTION, argh!
<calc> even after reinstalling it still refuses to move emails into a folder via a filter
 * calc is going to record a video of its f*ckage and file a bug :-\
<calc> its completely rendered itself useless by no longer filtering email
<dobey> calc: are you trying to use client filtering with imap?
<calc> dobey: yes
<calc> dobey: it was working until a mailing list changed and i renamed the folger
<calc> er folder
<calc> and then it no longer worked, and i don't see a bug about it
<calc> dobey: the bug is it claims the folder to move to is non-existent
<dobey> calc: did the filter get updated? (i presume it didn't)
<calc> dobey: yes i updated the filter and it refuses to work
<dobey> oh, hrmm
<calc> i even reinstalled my system thinking something maybe got broken and it still doesn't work
<calc> i deleted the filter rule and recreated it even and it still wouldn't work
<dobey> weird
<calc> i created a video and about to file a bug
<calc> if i can't find a way to fix RSN i will have to switch off evolution nothing is getting filtered now
<calc> bug 320198
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320198 in evolution "evolution: Cannot get folder 'foo': folder does not exist." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320198
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-01-23
<mvo> asac: abut bug #289396 - is there a way to make firefox *not* do that?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289396 in gdebi "Gdebi can't install package if firefox is closed too soon" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289396
<mvo> asac: remove downloaded files opened with a application when ff closes?
<crevette> hello
<huats> morning everyone
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> hey seb128
<huats> how are you ?
<seb128> huats: good, you?
<huats> great too :)
<huats> I might a little time to do some stuffs today
<didrocks> morning huats & seb128
<huats> hey didrocks
<seb128> lut didrocks
<crevette> salut la jeunesse
<huats> hey crevette
<seb128> lut crevette
<seb128> crevette: I fixed the directfb issue, gtk 2.15 might be uploaded today ;-)
<crevette> salut huats & seb128 and didrocks
<crevette> seb128, hoooo
<seb128> I'm test building it now, let's see if there is some other errors
<crevette> nice
<didrocks> lut crevette
<pitti> vuntz: bonjour
<pitti> vuntz: what gettext domain field do you use in OpenSUSE in .desktop files?
<pitti> vuntz: we have used X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain:, since Gettext-Domain: wasn't accepted into the spec
<vuntz> pitti: guten tag
<pitti> but now I'm discussing a modification of intltool-merge to do this
<vuntz> let me check
<vuntz> pitti: we use X-SUSE-Gettext-Domain
<pitti> in the course of bug 123025
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 123025 in gconf2 "stop shipping static gconf translations, use gettext at runtime" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123025
<pitti> I have the gconf patch, but the intltool side is still missing
<pitti> vuntz: . o O { it's really high time to get this accepted as Gettext-Domain:, duh }
<vuntz> pitti: however, in our case, when the key is not present, we default to some domain
<pitti> vuntz: with this gconf patch, I'd like to avoid further hacks in our build system and instead integrate it properly into intltool-merge
<vuntz> and it turns out that in our infrastructure, we ship all the translations of desktop files in one domain
<pitti> and danilo says for that we shoudl make it consistent with .desktop files as well
<pitti> oh, surprising
<vuntz> for gconf, hrm.
<pitti> vuntz: danilos says, we might get X-GNOME-Gettext-Domain: upstream in intltool
<seb128> we should use the same one domain trick, that would make easier to translate menu items for translators ;-)
<pitti> then we could change our glib etc. packages to look for that in addition
<pitti> vuntz: WDYT, would that work for your packages as well?
<vuntz> yeah
<vuntz> but we should probably sit down and work on a good mail for the xdg mailing list
<vuntz> to get the key "upstream"
<vuntz> pitti: now I wonder... I modified a bit the ubuntu patch, and killed one or two bugs, iirc
<vuntz> pitti: did I send you my version of the patch?
<seb128> vuntz: no
<seb128> vuntz: you did use a different logic though no?
<seb128> vuntz: you were speaking about cleaning the translations in packages and prefering the .desktop strings to the gettext one (ie reversed preference order compared to ubuntu)
<vuntz> seb128: ah, yes, we do that
<vuntz> I thought you did too
<vuntz> don't remember exactly what you do :-)
<seb128> vuntz: we just look in gettext before looking in the .desktop for translations
<seb128> vuntz: ie language packs have the preference there
<vuntz> vuntz@lyon ~/>wc -l /usr/share/applications/totem.desktop
<vuntz> 21 /usr/share/applications/totem.desktop
<vuntz> seb128: hrm, I need to check in a vm, but how can the user edit the desktop file?
<pitti> vuntz: your approach to .desktop is pretty much what I use for gconf translations now
<pitti> i. e. kill the existing translations from it and only use gettext
<vuntz> nod
<pitti> I wouldn't be opposed at all to use the same approach for .desktop
<seb128> vuntz: we did patch the edit tools to change the Name= key rather than Name[locale]= if that's the question
<pitti> then we'd use the same patch, and can possibly get it upstream
<seb128> vuntz: this way the Name doesn't match what is in the gettext translations and the Name is used
<seb128> vuntz: I've to admit I like your way
<seb128> ie cleaning the .desktops and prefering the translations in those over gettext, that fix corner cases and edition
 * pitti summons danilo
<vuntz> seb128: ah, yes, I remember now. You already told me
<seb128> pitti: what do you need danilo for there?
<pitti> danilos: hello
<seb128> hey danilos
<danilos> hi pitti, seb128
<pitti> I was discussing with danilos how to get the corresponiding changes into intltool-merge
<vuntz> danilos: DUDE
<danilos> seb128: he simply likes me, it's not that he needs me for anything
<pitti> i. e. for gconf .schemas, don't put the translation into it, just the domain
<danilos> vuntz: hi there :)
<seb128> pitti: ok, dobey is the intltool maintainer btw
<pitti> and for .desktops, just add X-GNOME-Gettext-Domain: instead of the translations
<pitti> seb128: oh, I thought dobey and danilos?
<seb128> pitti: +too then
<danilos> seb128: you are just badly informed, dude
<vuntz> pitti: in your scheme, is it the gconf server or the gconf client that reads the translations?
<pitti> but of course I don't like to modify every upstream package's build system to enable that mode
<seb128> danilos: every time I ping you about intltool you bounce me to dobey or bugzilla usually!
<pitti> vuntz: it has been the server so far, and I kept it that way
<danilos> seb128: that's because I am lazy, not because I am not a maintainer ;)
<seb128> danilos: I see ;-)
<danilos> seb128: or maybe because I am a lazy maintainer
<seb128> slacker!
<pitti> so I proposed something like INTLTOOL_EXTRA_ARGS=--only-add-domain inltool-merge ...
<pitti> then we can define INTLTOOL_EXTRA_ARGS=--only-add-domain in our build systems, and inltool would just append those to its command line
<pitti> the new option --only-add-domain would then add X-GNOME-Gettext-Domain: (.desktop)/<gettext_domain> (.schemas) instead of merging translatiosn
<danilos> so, we can easily add the option to inltool to allow for something like this to happen, and then gradually extend all the intltool modes to support it
<danilos> start with .desktop and .schema ones (so both SuSE and Ubuntu could drop whatever they are using to add X-*-Gettext-Domain) to them
<pitti> vuntz: above schema should be what you are doing in suse, and it's what I'd like to do in Ubuntu as well
<pitti> (right?)
<pitti> oh, hang on
<pitti> changing intltool-merge is a PITA
<pitti> because for some reasons many upstreams bundle intltool-merge instead of using the system's
<seb128> wasn"t that deprecated in some recent version?
<vuntz> pitti: hrm, in our setup, we still need intltool to put translation in desktop files. We have a script that handles the part about trimming translations and adding what we want
<vuntz> pitti: and unless everybody uses intltool, we'll have to stay this way
<seb128> vuntz: why do you need to add those?
<pitti> vuntz: that's what we currently do as well, in a cdbs (build system) rule which mangles the .desktop files
<vuntz> seb128: that's the way our script works
<seb128> vuntz: well, it would only behave this way when using --only-add-domain
<danilos> seb128: it was deprecated, but only in a very recent version
<pitti> it seems so much cleaner to do it in intlool itself, but if everyone ships ancient copies, that makes it impossible
<vuntz> seb128: we wouldn't want to have one way for intltool-powered packages, and another one for other packages
<seb128> pitti: GNOME doesn't
<pitti> seb128: I looked at gconf and gnome-mount, both do
<seb128> vuntz: right
<seb128> pitti: weird
<danilos> pitti: how old are gconf tarballs? do they make regular releases?
<pitti> it's still 2.24.0
<pitti> seems we don't have a 2.25 gconf yet?
<seb128> I've it on my disk
<pitti> seb128: heh, good test how well my patch ports to that :)
<seb128> the tarball still has intltool-*.in though
<vuntz> yeah, seb128 is slow to package
<vuntz> he's getting old
 * pitti hugs seb128
<danilos> seb128: maybe it has a recent enough intltool, at least?
<seb128> vuntz: no, I'm carreful with GNOME changes nowadays rather, too much screwing up there recently ;-)
<pitti> danilos: not recent enough to have the feature we are currently planning :)
<seb128> vuntz: my gnome-session dialogs look ugly now for example ;-)
<vuntz> seb128: I read it, yeah
<seb128> IT_PROG_INTLTOOL([0.35.0])
<seb128> in gconf
<danilos> seb128: that's the minimum version, not indication of what is being used
<seb128> they should update to 0.4n
<pitti> seb128: dialog> not using the theme, as it seems
<seb128> danilos: where do you see the version they used
<danilos> seb128: they are all 0 bytes in the tarball I just downloaded
<danilos> seb128: you could see it in the file, if anything was there
<seb128> danilos: right
<danilos> seb128: so, for example, this is the particular feature (not having intltoolize install .in scripts inside the tarball) that Rodney worked on, so he'd have better grasp of that, and I'd likely point you at him :)
<seb128> right ;-)
<lool> pitti: intlool :)
<pitti> lool: ?
<pitti> oh, oops :)
<pitti> seb128: could you put your gconf 2.25 package somewhere, so that I can port my patch and play with it?
<danilos> seb128, pitti, vuntz: however, I believe the best bet is to start on this and get it done in GNOME 2.25
<seb128> pitti: I didn't package it yet, I have the tarball only for now
<pitti> seb128: ah, ok; nevermind
<vuntz> danilos: it's getting late for 2.25
<seb128> pitti: http://download.gnome.org/sources/GConf/2.25/GConf-2.25.0.tar.gz
<seb128> pitti: you are welcome to do the update if you want ;-)
<pitti> seb128: okay
<danilos> vuntz: well, for 2.25 intltool at least
<pitti> seb128: can as well do it
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I'm still fighting gtk 2.15
<pitti> seb128: yay, my patch still applies cleanly :)
<pitti> seb128: okay, I'll test it and upload it once I'm satisfied
 * crevette imagine seb128 as a knight fighting the GTK dragon
<seb128> pitti: ok thank you
<seb128> crevette: ;-)
<pitti> seb128, danilos, vuntz: hm, so in order to get the feature rolled out, would you be mad at me if I used our build sytem rules instead of intltool modifications to change the .schemas files accordingly, until we get the feature into intltool and that lastest version into GNOME tarballs?
<seb128> go for it
<vuntz> pitti: if you want to test it soon, this makes sense
<asac> any clue if its true that "Ctrl-Shift-B" is a reserved key combination in gtk+ ?
<asac> mozilla has a comment in code that reads: "# Accel+Shift+A-F are reserved on GTK2
<asac> "
<danilos> pitti: yeah, just do it, we can integrate it upstream later
<pitti> argh, GNOME again took over my F9 to F12 keys
<pitti> *nnnng*
<danilos> pitti: how are you going to get to your 12-th workspace now?
<pitti> I use F9 for vim's pastetoggle, and F11 to get fullscreen in terminals
<danilos> btw, I've found that with the new xdev keyboard driver, I get total mess sometimes (and totally unrelated mess on my laptop and my desktop)
<tkamppeter> pitti, did you do your SRU session today already?
<pitti> tkamppeter: not yet, still working on something
<crevette> yeah mighty seb128_ beat the GTK monster
<seb128_> crevette: ;-)
<crevette> seb128_, I'll look to epiphany this week end of nobody tak it before
<seb128_> you just need to talk to it nicely ;-)
<crevette> MERCI !!!!
<seb128_> crevette: ok, I was maybe going to do it but you can do that if you want
<crevette> ah
<crevette> as you want
<crevette> if you do it I'll have it tonight
<crevette> :)
<seb128_> crevette: if you want to do it I will not say no ;-)
<crevette> okay
<crevette> take some rest :)
<seb128_> crevette: I've many other things to do and I'm not tired so that's ok ;-)
<seb128_> crevette: the update require quite some packaging changes since they stopped shipping the webkit backend in the same tarball
<seb128_> crevette: let me know if you think that will not manage to do the required packaging changes
<crevette> okay but I'll look it only tonight
<kwwii> anyone know how to increase the system font size (trying to increase the size in gdm)
<kwwii> ?
<pitti> kwwii: shouldn't that be defined in the theme?
<pitti> kwwii: I guess the only thing that'd help would be to tell X to use a different dpi, but ICBW
<kwwii> pitti: for the labels it respects the size I set but for the text entry, date, clock and button label it doesn
<kwwii> 't
<kwwii> :-(
<kwwii> pitti: I think it gets it somewhere else but I have no idea where
<kwwii> and googling for this only results in several people complaining that it doesn't work when set in the theme
<soren> asac: Did you get around to doing the firefox plugin database rebuild yet?
<dobey> kwwii: i think the entries might have hardcoded size or something silly?
<asac> soren: yes. i didnt get to it. you need a package from jaunty right?
<kwwii> dobey: lol, I think that the gdmthemetester doesn't respect what is in the theme but gdm itself does
<kwwii> I just booted my test system and the text seems larger at least
<dobey> that is also a possibility
<dobey> kwwii: we should really get rid of that awful dialog in nautilus
<kwwii> I can confirm that the font sizes *do* change per theme in the real gdm but not in the gdmthemetester, in case anyone is intersted
<kwwii> dobey: which one is that?
<kwwii> dobey: oh, btw, I subscribed an icon-naming-utils bug to you today...your first ubuntu bug :-)
<dobey> yeah, that's what i'm talking about
<dobey> the link is there because evolution used stock_mail-priority-high
<kwwii> dobey: yeah, no doubt...I guess the interface needs a rework
<dobey> but really, users shouldn't be able to set arbitrary emblems for files
<dobey> (tags are not emblems, also)
<kwwii> especially because the _m in the name adds a hotkey to m
<dobey> brb, i did nautilus --quit to test something the other day, so i need to log out/in
<soren> asac: Yes, this is for Jaunty.
<dobey> lovely
<dobey> my desktop hard locked when i logged out :(
<tseliot> kwwii, pitti: does the problem with dpi you were talking about have to do with point 13 of this page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-01-20
<tseliot> "Try not allowing GNOME Settings Deamon to force DPI of 96, even if overriding value in xorg.cof "
<dobey> kwwii: http://wayofthemonkey.com/index.php?date=2008-06-11
<dobey> kwwii: see the second half of that blog about tags vs. emblems :)
<mvo> seb128: could you please sync gnome-codec-install from debian/experimental?
<mvo> (bug #320046)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320046 in gnome-codec-install "Please sync 0.3.2 from debian/experimental" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320046
<seb128> mvo: oh yes, sorry I forgot yesterday
<mvo> seb128: no problem
<pitti> vuntz: gnome bug 568845 FYI
<ubottu> Gnome bug 568845 in gconf "Please support calling gettext() at runtime instead of shipping static translations" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=568845
<kwwii> dobey: I agree completely with that
<vuntz> pitti: yeah, was trying to open it already ;-)
<dobey> kwwii: awesome
<tseliot> kwwii: please see my question above
<vuntz> pitti: I'll look at this at some point. Thanks for working on this!
<pitti> vuntz: cheers; my first pet-bug for jaunty :)
<dobey> ah man, DPI
<kwwii> tseliot: I have no idea - /me just an art fag
<dobey> the bane of X
<tseliot> kwwii: ok
<dobey> that really shouldn't be called DPI in gnome or X
<dobey> it should be called "random integer value which somehow screws with the sizes of your fonts"
<dobey> in fact, i think i will go file a bug about that label in gnome
<tseliot> dobey: ok, let correct the documentation then ;)
<tseliot> s/let/let's/
<dobey> tseliot: if it was actually DPI, it would behave inverse of how it does now
<dobey> increasing the dpi should make the fonts appear smaller, not larger
<dobey> there shouldn't be a DPI setting anywhere
<tseliot> I didn't know what the symptoms were. This is why I asked
<dobey> because it's not like you can somehow magically change the DPI of your monitor
<loic-m> dobey: isn't increasing the dpi done to correct the dpi so it matches your screen?
<dobey> loic-m: no
<dobey> i mean, that's probably the idea
<dobey> but it is certainly not the behavior
<pitti> seb128: looking at ls -lSr /usr/share/gconf/schemas/, would you mind if I do no-change uploads of nautilus, gnome-power-manager, and metacity, to move them to the new gconf translation system (for testing everything)
<tseliot> but you can change what the driver thinks the DPI of your monitor is
<loic-m> dobey: I though that was the purpose, since you have other means to make the font/icons bigger
<pitti> seb128: well, of course I tested it locally, but large-scale testing -> better
<dobey> loic-m: the DPI setting doesn't effect icons, only fonts
<seb128> pitti: not at all, just curious but why those? is that for anything using gconf to try?
<pitti> seb128: those three are amongst the worst offenders, i. e. their .schema files are biggest
<loic-m> dobey: that's because the desktop doesn't have resolution-independence, no? Isn't that what should be fixed in the first place?
<seb128> pitti: ie if you have a doubt about breaking things maybe try a random application rather than something running in the standard session
<pitti> seb128: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gconf/+bug/123025/comments/4
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 123025 in gconf "stop shipping static gconf translations, use gettext at runtime" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<pitti> seb128: I don't have doubts about breaking nautilus, I tested that locally
<dobey> tseliot: well you can change your resolution to something smaller, and use more of those dots on your monitor to represent 1 dot, but you can't really somehow really make it think the dpi is different
<seb128> pitti: ok just upload then ;-)
<pitti> seb128: but nautilus alone saves us .5 MB .deb size alone, plus another .5 MB in /var on the desktop CD
<dobey> loic-m: not really, i think the dpi setting is more an artifact of before Xorg was smart, and because way back in the day monitors were mostly 75dpi, though there were some that were 96dpi
<pitti> seb128: after three days of working on this stuff, I'd like to have something to show off ;)
<seb128> pitti: do any change you want
<pitti> seb128: okay, thanks
<dobey> loic-m: these days, X just probes the monitor and gets the value via DDC or whatever
<pitti> seb128: (new gconf uploaded, btw)
<seb128> pitti: I'm working on intrepid for now
<seb128> pitti: thanks
<pitti> oh, how come?
<dobey> loic-m: ie, "xdpyinfo|grep -i resolution" will give you the screen's resolution, not whatever you set in gconf/xorg.conf
<seb128> pitti: doing backports for the samba browsing issue which is broken since hardy
<seb128> pitti: the plan is to backport to intrepid now and later to hardy
<pitti> ooooh
<dobey> loic-m: in fact, i have the gconf setting set to something like 65 DPI
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<dobey> which would mean I should have really huge fonts, if it were actually anything like DPI
<tseliot> dobey: well, you can decide whether to use the EDID to compute the DPI of the X screen or not
<dobey> tseliot: well it doesn't really matter
<dobey> tseliot: your monitors native resolution will never change
<tseliot> dobey: there's no doubt about that
<dobey> so having some magical configuration is just silly
<dobey> because it obviously isn't going to change the hardware
<dobey> it should JFW already
<loic-m> dobey: there's still time where the monitor has faulty info (I get the problem on a laptop) so the DPI is nice to have. If we want to use the DPI to make the fonts look bigger, shouldn't we use something else?
<dobey> if you want to make the fonts look bigger, you should increase the font size i think
<loic-m> dobey: The objective would be to have _all_ screens show a 12 font the same size, whetever the DPI, then people that want bigger fonts/icons just say so (and chose to +# the fonts, or set them manually
<dobey> ugh
<loic-m> s/whetever/whatever
<kwwii> indeed point sizes are definite (1/72" is one point)
<mvo> pitti: hi, what creates /var/crash? if i install apport in a jaunty pbuilder chroot it is not there
<seb128> vuntz: do you do lot of backporting in opensuse? do you know if somebody backported federico fileselector changes to the current stable there?
<vuntz> seb128: which changes?
<seb128> vuntz: gnome bug #558776
<ubottu> Gnome bug 558776 in GtkFileChooser "Filechooser size sometimes too small" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=558776
<fta2> seb128, could you please have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/242244  I'm not sure where to assign it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242244 in ubuntu "Apps in notifcation bar are no longer moved to current workspace on click" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<pitti> mvo: heh, dpkg -S /var/crash says "update-notifier-common" :)
<mvo> pitti: heh :)
<pitti> mvo: but usually it is apport's init script
<pitti> ./debian/apport.init:[ -e /var/crash ] || mkdir -p /var/crash
<pitti> ./debian/apport.init:        chmod 1777 /var/crash
<pitti> mvo: (sorry, was on a phone call)
<mvo> pitti: right, thanks, that is fine, that expains why its not there in the chroot
<pitti> mvo: if it helps you, I just stuff it into the package
<mvo> its fine, I was just curious why it was missing there
<seb128> fta2: talk to asac, this change is distro specific and has been added because firefox users were complaining about something
<fta2> asac, ^^
<seb128> fta2: I think the issue was than opening new tabs was moving firefox to your current workspace otherwise or something
<seb128> than -> that
<vuntz> seb128: we have some patch for this, but I'm not sure it's wroking well
<fta2> seb128, imho, the current behavior is seriously broken
<seb128> fta2: I think so too but asac made it look like all firefox users would hate us otherwise
<fta2> asac, bad asac!
<seb128> vuntz: could be the same patch as we have ;-)
<asac> fedora has the same i think
<asac> gtk has to provide an easy utility function to figure whether the window is on current active desktop or not
<asac> so ffox can either call present or something else depending on that
<asac> asking all apps to implement that isnt right. i think gedit does implement it and that code should be factored out somewhere so others can use it too
<fta2> that won't fix the bug in years :(
<asac> i think compiz behaviour is similar to metacity (it was metacity that changed here)
<asac> window managers should agree imo if the toolkit doesnt provide a proper abstraction from that.
<asac> anyway, i was not the one who didnt like firefox to zoom to current desktop
<asac> but let me think abit about it again ... maybe i have other ideas now :) (completely forgot about this topic)
<fta2> asac, should I assign the bug to you then?
<seb128> pitti: do you have a minute to discuss a bug I want to fix in hardy?
<seb128> pitti: bug #236953
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 236953 in gedit "gedit crashes browsing fileselector ssh locations" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/236953
<seb128> pitti: the issue was a gvfs and http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gvfs?view=revision&revision=1974 fixes it
<seb128> the change is non trivial though
<seb128> pitti: other opinion is http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gedit/trunk/gedit/gedit.c?view=patch&r1=6516&r2=6515&pathrev=6516 which is a workaround
<seb128> opinion -> option
<seb128> pitti: do you think we should try the gvfs fix (it got tested in intrepid and might fix similar issues in some other softwares though gvfs is not used that much in hardy) or rather go with the workaround?
<crevette> thanks seb128 to have include the extensive upstream changelog in the gtk update
<seb128> crevette: is that an ironic comment? ;-)
<crevette> no no no
<crevette> I know this is not always easy to paste it, usually I have to format the sentences to fit well
<crevette> wonderful epiphany depends on gtk-2.15.1
<seb128> there is no such tarball yet
<crevette> yeah I know, I'm asking on #epiphany
<kwwii> hrm, which package is missing when I get this error: debian/rules:5: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk: No such file or directory
<kwwii> when running debuild
<pitti> seb128: eww for the gvfs patch...
<seb128> pitti: ok, you are for the gedit workaround too ;-)
<pitti> seb128: the gedit one seems much safer?
<seb128> yeah, I'm not sure why I asked, that seemed obvious to me too ;-)
<pitti> seb128: so currently it is impossible to use ssh locations with gedit? it alwasy crashes? or just sometimes?
<pitti> if it isn't that bad, then we perhaps shouldn't fix it in an SRU at all
<seb128> pitti: when you play with the fileselector buttonbar to switch between directories it often crash
<seb128> pitti: some users complained because it crashes with their modifications when they try to pick a directory where to save their work
<pitti> seb128: right, for an editor that's especially bad
<seb128> pitti: let's do the one liner workaround
<pitti> I wouldn't be too concerned if it sometimes crashes nautilus, for example, since that will just restart itself and not damage documents
<pitti> seb128: right
 * pitti hugs the Gnome"fixit"minator
 * seb128 hugs SRUapprovator ;-)
<didrocks> Gnome"fixit"minator, SRUapprovatorâ¦ quoted ^^
<crevette> can someone confirm  that browsing "Windows network" in network in nautilus spawn an error
<crevette> in jaunty
<seb128> no
<crevette> I have a lot of messages "tdb(unnamed): tdb_open_ex: could not open file /var/run/samba/unexpected.tdb: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type"
<rugby471> hi guys, I have a problem, we are trying to fix a bug in xsane (ugly menu icon) and so we have chnaged the xsane.desktop file to have
<rugby471> Icon=scanner
<rugby471> rather than
<rugby471> Icon=xsane
<rugby471> this way it uses gnome-icon-theme's generic scanner icon
<rugby471> however a tester is having a problem
<rugby471> he has gnome-icon-theme installed, we can even see the scanner icon in the crrcet directory
<rugby471> however it comes up with the gtk-0missing-image
<rugby471> icon in the menu
<rugby471> anyhelp?
<seb128> re
<seb128> crevette: what do you do exactly to get the error?
<crevette> seb128: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/320547
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320547 in gvfs "[jaunty] trying to browse smb:// network spawn an error" [Undecided,New]
<crevette> I don't know if could be an upstream bug
<seb128> crevette: could you open it on bugzilla too?
<crevette> okay
<seb128> crevette: it's for sure an upstream bug we have to patch to that code in jaunty
<seb128> crevette: does smbclient works correctly?
<crevette> seb128: do you know what are the switch to put to mimic gvfs ? I did a -L -W WORKGROUP -N but I am not sure this is good
<seb128> crevette: use smbtree to browse the network
<crevette> smbtree doesn't spawn error
<seb128> does it list your workgroups and machines correctly?
<crevette> I have no server active now
<crevette> but even without server I surprised it spawn an error
<crevette> I'll start it now, and see what happen
<crevette> it = my server
<asomething> seb128: Hi, I've got e-d-s packaged (Bug #320299) but ran into a problem with evo (Bug #320329)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320299 in evolution-data-server "Please upgrade to evolution-data-server 2.25.5" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320299
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320329 in evolution "Please upgrade evolution to 2.25.5-0ubuntu1" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320329
<asomething> seb128: for some reason the lp integration patch makes evo FTBFS, but it looks fine to me. I don't get it....
<seb128> asomething: hi, I was looking at your eds upgrade, there is some issues
<asomething> seb128: ya, i haven't tested at all since evo isn't building
<asomething> seb128: let me know and i'll clean it up
<seb128> asomething: there is no soname change in this version, not sure why you did one on the binaries
<asomething> configure.in shows shows version bumps
<asomething> seb128: i don't have much experience packaging libs, so this is a bot of a learning experience for me
<seb128> asomething: that's a good exercise ;-)
<seb128> asomething: the soname is the number after the .so in the installed library
<seb128> asomething: evolution-data-server-2.25.5/debian/tmp/usr/lib/libebook-1.2.so.9.2.0 for example is libebook1.2-9
<asomething> seb128: i assumed that if the FOO_CURRENT=# changed in configure.in the soname changes
<seb128> asomething: the soname is basically current -age numbers
<seb128> asomething: to request sponsoring you can subscribe ubuntu-main,universe-sponsors to the bug
<asomething> seb128: ya, i din't want to subscribe sponsors untill I had both ready
<seb128> asomething: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html if you want details about packaging libraries
<seb128> asomething: the evolution build issue, it seems the configure is not correctly updated, what did you do to update the autoconf changes?
<asomething> seb128: I ran autoreconf
<seb128> asomething: where? in the source? or you use cdbs-edit-patch to update it?
<seb128> asomething: it seems than the lpi changes were not applied when you ran autoconf which leads to the error
<asomething> seb128: i think i see now, the lpi patch wasn't actually applied yet when autoreconf was run
 * pochu waves!
<asomething> seb128: thanks for the pointers, i should get this done pretty soon
<pochu> asac: know what? I've found another broken thread, but this time it's not TB's fault. Looks like GMail is mangling the References when they contain "[]" ;)
<pochu> (I think the mangled mail was sent using GMail, but am not sure)
<seb128> hey pochu
<pochu> hi seb128 :)
<seb128> asomething: thank you for the work, that's quite some comments and things to learn in the same time so if you have question feel free to ask details
<pochu> bah, gtg
<pochu> bbl
<seb128> pochu: you basically need to undo your soname changes for e-d-s and update the breaks version so e-d-s and evo are updated in the same run for users, otherwise the e-d-s upgrade would break evolution
<seb128> ups
<seb128> asomething: ^ the comment is for you
<asomething> seb128: got it, =)
<seb128> asomething: not sure how you edit the autoconf patch but go in the source directory, run cdbs-edit-patch patchname, run autoconf, remove the .cache directory it creates and exi
<seb128> exi -> exit
<seb128> when closing the cdbs-edit-patch environment the patch is updated
<seb128> if the previous version doesn't apply just move it away before running cdbs-edit-patch
<asac> pochu: did the patch work for you?
<pochu> asac: I tried to applied to TB 2 but didn't build
<pochu> asac: well, Icedove 2 ;)
<asac> heh
<asac> pochu: did it apply cleanly?
<pochu> asac: nope
<pochu> asac: http://pastebin.com/f68536176
<pochu> asac: it failed because of the getter_Copies() argument IIRC
<pochu> asac: if you want I can build it again and paste you the error.
<asac> pochu: search for GetMessageId
<asac> in the file
<asac> there probably is other use of it
<asac> and you should find the right pattern
<asac> or wait
<asac> let mec heck ;)
<asac> pochu: on 1.8 brach they seem to use nsXPIDLCString messageId;
<asac>  isntad of nsCString
<asac> give that a try
<asac> the GetMessageId invokation stays the same then
<pochu> yeah that was one of the suggestion from the compiler
<asac> likd http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla1.8/source/mailnews/db/msgdb/src/nsMsgHdr.cpp#803
<asac> pochu: ^^
<asac> ;)
<asac> like there
<pochu> cool :)
 * pochu tries that
<asac> but i think maybe we should really fix the threading algo
<asac> so even already indexed stuff gets fixed
<asac> but well ... in this way all new mail gets fixed
<asac> or removing .msf index caches
<pochu> is it safe to remove those?
<pochu> ok, building
<maxb> It loses message flagging and view settings, IIRC
<maxb> at the very least
<pochu> I don't use flags for bugmail :)
<pochu> there's also the possibility to rebuild the index, I guess
<pochu> in the folder properties
<maxb> safer
<asac> pochu: i think its safe ;) ... but better backup your profile
<asac> i think for imap it will redownload stuff ... for pop and so on it will recreate the indexes
<pochu> oh noes!
<pochu> fscking lintian!!
<pochu> so, I have a hook to run lintian after the build in pbuilder, and it exits with nonzero when it finds a lintian error
<pochu> and that makes pbuilder fail the build and not save the .debs!
<asac> pochu: rebuild index i dont know ... compact folder soes something similar
<asac> but not everything i think
<asac> pochu: bad pbuilder ;)
<asac> use a dedicated chroot ;)
<pochu> hehe
<pochu> asac: \o/
<pochu> asac: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/bz474790_reference_itself_breaks_threading, feel free to apply it to icedove/tb2 ;)
<asac> cool ;)
<asac> i will wait on upstream decision ...
<pochu> fine
<pochu> I hope the launchpad folks fix this soon
<seb128> crevette: there?
<crevette> yep
<crevette> playing with my wii
<crevette> :)
<seb128> what game? ;-)
<seb128> crevette: you still want to do the nautilus-sendto changes?
<crevette> pperhaps tomorrow morning
<crevette> seb128: why?
<seb128> crevette: just to know if I should try to find somebody interested in that or if you are
<seb128> crevette: no hurry ;-)
<crevette> I need to check out the comments you did yesterday
<seb128> crevette: basically rename the source to nautilus-sendto-universe, make it build everything and ship only the things which are not in nautilus-sendto in a nautilus-sendto-universe binary
<seb128> so having nautilus-sendto and nautilus-sendto-universe installed would be similar to have a normal install
<Nafallo> haha!
<Nafallo> seb128: are you still discussing that since yesterday? :-D
<seb128> Nafallo: not still but again rather ;-)
<Nafallo> seb128: thank god :-)
<Nafallo> haha
<seb128> I was just giving a gently reminder to crevette before running away from IRC and work for the weekend ;-)
<Nafallo> seb128: tsss :-)
<seb128> anyway enough for today, see you next week everybody
<crevette> see you
<crevette> okay bon week
<seb128> see you later
<crevette> end
<seb128> to you too ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hey crevette - thanks for the advice regarding the ntfs-3g version numbering scheme change yesterday
<chrisccoulson> i spoke with the upstream debian maintainer and sorted it out
<crevette> chrisccoulson: how did he solved that?
<crevette> (hello by the way)
<chrisccoulson> he's not incrementing the epoch for the new version when he packages it, because "2009" is greater than "1".
<chrisccoulson> it's a good job i asked, because I was going to assume that he would increment it
<crevette> ok sounds normal then
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it's pretty reasonable. the upstream maintainer of ntfs-3g is quite keen for us to ship the new version now, as we ship a really old version and ubuntu users keep reporting problems upstream that have been fixed several releases ago.
<crevette> hey andreasn
<andreasn> hi crevette
<crevette> sad news I can't change the statusbar shadow, the property is read only in gtk
<crevette> it's up to the theme to implement the statusbar looking, I don't understand the rationale for that :/
<andreasn> oh
<andreasn> not much to do I guess
<crevette> yeah, except rewriting a custom statusbar for gtk
<andreasn> how does f-spot do it? is it just that it doesn't use a regular statusbar?
<crevette> wich is out of my capabilities
<crevette> I guess this is not a Gtkstatusbar but a widget derivated from it (my coding fu is near zero, so this is justguess)
<andreasn> ok
<Amaranth> cp gtkstatusbar.[c-h] ~/myproject ;)
<andreasn> hehe
<dobey> statusbar doesn't have shadows
<crevette>  the border is not a shadow ?
<dobey> it sets a shadow type to SHADOW_IN that is drawn by the parent widget type, which is a GtkHBox, from what i can see
<dobey> actually looking at the code, i'm not sure /where/ that rectangle with SHADOW_IN gets drawn really
<andreasn> dobey, hello, my favorite gnome-icon-theme maintainer
<dobey> hi andreasn
<andreasn> :)
<dobey> what's up?
<andreasn> as jimmac said it was ok to relicense his parts of tango-icon-theme (still fixing the metadata stuff btw), would it be ok to use the same spinner icon in gnome-icon-theme as well?
<andreasn> mpt bugged me about it again :)
<andreasn> and that would fix http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=558367
<ubottu> Gnome bug 558367 in general "process-working should be a spinner rather than a foot" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<dobey> andreasn: if he wants to make it PD, then sure i guess, go for it
<andreasn> cool, I'll put it in svn then
<dobey> bbiab
<pochu> reading launchpad bugmail in threads is just *awesome*
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-01-24
<pochu> Setting up vinagre (2.24.1-0ubuntu1.1) ...
<pochu> *** glibc detected *** gconftool-2: free(): invalid pointer: 0x08f57098 ***
<pochu> ouch
 * pochu reassigns
<gQuigs> Looking for feedback on my feature
<gQuigs> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/no-input-recovery
<gQuigs> *there is actual code, that does work
<pochu> gQuigs: looks interesting, but it doesn't look very desktop related. I'd bring it up in #ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com (or alternatively bring it up on irc on a working day)
<anakron> Hi all
<anakron> i have one question
<anakron> where, if im doing a desktop file, i can put basilisk2
<anakron> which category
<anakron> is a macintosh emulator
<anakron> alo?
<DGMurdockIII> will you guys be useing nvapi
<DGMurdockIII> http://developer.nvidia.com/object/nvapi.html
<pochu> DGMurdockIII: it says it supports all windows platforms... but no mention about linux
<pochu> and more important: what for?
<DGMurdockIII> like netbooks
<DGMurdockIII> it support there low power gpu
<DGMurdockIII> http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_get.html
<dobey> are there any netbooks that don't have intel video?
<DGMurdockIII> yes
<DGMurdockIII> http://www.nvidia.com/object/notebook_drivers.html
<DGMurdockIII> (dobey): http://www.nvidia.com/object/notebook_drivers.html
<DGMurdockIII> opps
<DGMurdockIII> (dobey): this GeForce 9400m chip
<DGMurdockIII> (dobey): http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_9400m_g_us.html
<DGMurdockIII> http://www.crn.com/hardware/212501676
<dobey> well, that means there's a board
<dobey> question is who has their hands on them i guess
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-01-25
<pwnguin> is mapi support gonna be in jaunty?
<pwnguin> err
<pwnguin> will evolution support mapi in jaunty?
<hggdh> pwnguin, not sure yet
<pwnguin> i saw seb or someone in an evolution irc meeting talking about debian packaging
<hggdh> yes, probably seb
<hggdh> but I personally do not know how stable MAPI is, right now
<pwnguin> doesnt matter
<hggdh> heh
<pwnguin> evolution-exchange crashes
<pwnguin> the only way it could be worse is deleting email, and frankly, i dont think i'd mind
<hggdh> well, if you are willing to build & test evo MAPI, please to so -- the more testers, the more stable we can get it
<pwnguin> i may need some help configuring it
<pwnguin> im not sure what the urls for our exchange are
<hggdh> on the schedule: http://www.go-evolution.org/Evo2.26
<hggdh> and this will also (hopefully) help: http://www.go-evolution.org/MAPIProvider
<hggdh> at least the basic depends for MAPI are already available on Jaunty -- openchange >= 0.8, and samba4alpha6
<cj> you guys stop hiring yet? :)
<cj> or more specifically, what do I need to do to get hired for that OpenGL position?
<Hobbsee> email hr with a resume, generally
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-01-25
<BalSak> hi guys. the #gnome channel seems dead. does anyone know it the multiseat functionality what was present in 2.20, and removed in 2.28, will be re-introduced in later versions?
<fagan> BalSak: you would have to ask the upstream
<fagan> So gnome
<BalSak> I am, but the channel seems dead
<fagan> Tomorrow is monday so ask sometime tomorrow and people should be there
<crimsun> "patience is a virtue"
<BalSak> ok. thansk
<BalSak> NZ-time
<BalSak> ...
<BalSak> sux
<fagan> It happens
<fagan> but monday should be easier to get an answer
<BalSak> sweet
<BalSak> thanks
<fagan> np
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> asac: firefox source NEWed
<baptistemm> good morning, and ahappy new week
<didrocks> good morning
<kermiac> hi pitti do you mind if i ask a quick question about an SRU for dapper? bug 484288
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484288 in sun-java5 "update to 1.5.0-22" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484288
<pitti> kermiac: just ask
<kermiac> with dapper server being supported now & not the desktop, is it valid to install the gui on dapper server to test java
<kermiac> or is there a better way to test java?
<kermiac> for hardy i just tried a couple of dozen online java games & verified it as working using the test on the java website & it seems ok
<pitti> kermiac: sure, it's fine to install the gui; it should still work
<pitti> kermiac: testing that is greatly appreciated
<kermiac> pitti: ty for the answer I just wanted to make sure that was a valid way to test :)
<didrocks> pitti: do you have an /etc/X11/Xsession.d/60seahorse-plugins file? debian removed it, but as we renamed it from 60seahorse-plugins to 60seahorse, it wasn't removed
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<pitti> didrocks: I do have that
<pitti> we don't need that for the gpg agent?
<pitti> didrocks: incidentally, I'm just playing with seahorse to get rid of /etc/xdg/autostart/seahorse-daemon.desktop :)
<didrocks> pitti: hehe, you're playing on the desktop, I'm on the Xsession :)
<didrocks> pitti: seahorse and seahorse-plugins are the same source package, right?
<pitti>  [ Loic Minier ]
<pitti>    * searhorse.Xsession: don't start seahorse-agent if $GPG_AGENT_INFO is set.
<pitti> didrocks: no, different ones
<didrocks> oh right, it only suggests
<pitti> didrocks: http://packages.debian.org/sid/i386/seahorse-plugins/filelist
<pitti> didrocks: it's still there
<didrocks> grep isn't good for parsing this carefully :)
<pitti> and I think it ought to be
<pitti> didrocks: we don't install -plugins by default
<didrocks> ok, I'll then patch it here :)
<didrocks> right
<pitti> didrocks: is that only in svn or so?
<didrocks> I was just thinking it will be in the same source package
<didrocks> pitti: hum, what from svn?
<pitti> didrocks: I don't see that the Xsession.d script was removed from Debian
 * pitti invokes seb128
<didrocks> pitti: in fact, I guess it was for the transition (it was remove from seahorse)
<didrocks> removed*
<didrocks> so, that's why I got puzzled
<didrocks> everything's fine we still have that file from -plugins source package, sorry for the trouble :)
<pitti> ok, I was confused
<pitti> it seems it just shouldn't start if ther's another gpg agent running already
<didrocks> pitti: but we have 90x11-common_ssh-agent too, right?
<didrocks> oh sun! \o/ One week without seeing it
<pitti> didrocks: right; that's ssh, while the 60seahorse is for gpg
<didrocks> oh right, always confused with -plugins only having gpg stuff despite the description :)
<pitti> didrocks: well, it also has the nautilus plugin (but that's also for gpg)
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson o/
<didrocks> I was talking about that sentence:
<didrocks> " In addition it includes an agent for storing private passphrases,
<didrocks>  as well as a GnuPG and OpenSSH key manager."
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks - how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: fine thanks. Some sun this morning :) You?
<chrisccoulson> it's quite miserable here (no sun) unfortunately
<chrisccoulson> and i'm very tired this morning
<chrisccoulson> but otherwise, not too bad thanks
<didrocks> tired on Monday? Fortunately, you have the week to rest from your week-end :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - yeah, we had a long day on saturday (i spent about 7.5 hours driving), and then i got to bed late this morning too
<chrisccoulson> so i will need a few early nights this week ;)
<didrocks> I think you deserve them :)
<chrisccoulson> heh, thanks :)
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning! thanks for gpm!
<chrisccoulson> hey hyperair - do you know if your second g-p-m patch fixes that other reporters double-suspend issue (ie, could you recreate it without the change)?
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, no worries :)
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<pitti> I'm great! woke up with plans for startup speed in my head :)
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: i couldn't recreate it without the change, but i'm quite sure of what the problem is, due to the order of the stuff that appeared in the log.
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm a crash fix away from dropping the seahorse autostart .desktop
<chrisccoulson> pitti - excellent. i was hoping to do some startup speed work this weekend, but it never materialised unfortunately
<pitti> chrisccoulson: do we already have a breakdown how much time each g-s-d plugin needs?
<pitti> I was going to add the profiling code that I have for wncksyncdaemon, and check out the timing
<chrisccoulson> pitti - not that i've done, although i think it's been investigated in some depth before
<didrocks> bbl, testing something
<pitti> and see whether we can speed up/disable some of those for UNR at least
<chrisccoulson> g-s-d already has some profiling code in it
<chrisccoulson> but i've not figured out how to use it yet :)
<pitti> that would be next on my list after fixing seahorse
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok; you already signed up for the xrandr one, so I guess I'll let you do that plugin first, and I can have a look at the other ones
<chrisccoulson> pitti - that would be useful. we already know how long the xrandr plugin takes, and it would be interesting to know how long xsettings takes too
<pitti> at least no xrdb any more, that helped quite a bit already
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - i had a thought about your gpm fix when i awoke this morning
<pitti> seahorse-daemon needs quite a bit of CPU, so I hope dropping it will win another .5 s
<chrisccoulson> the value of lid-is-closed that you read from DkpClient is also cached
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - the cache in devkit-power-gobject is invalidated when it receives a signal from dk-power
<chrisccoulson> but if you haven't returned to the main loop to process that event, then the cache is probably still invalid
<chrisccoulson> s/invalid/wrong
<chrisccoulson> so, i'm not sure it will fix it yet, which is why i asked if you could reproduce it
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: seriously? devkit-power-gobject has its own cache?
<seb128> good morning there
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: good god. this is ridiculous.
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - yeah, it does ;)
<chrisccoulson> it's to cut down on dbus calls every time you want to read a property
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: ............
<chrisccoulson> but the cache should be automatically invalidated when a property changes, so that it gets read from dk-power on the next read
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> if that happens, then it should read from dk-power, right?
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - don't worry just yet though, your patch might still fix it. but, if it doesn't, then we need to think of something else
<chrisccoulson> i wouldn't read directly from dk-power
<hyperair> hmm?
<hyperair> what do you mean wouldn't read directly?
<chrisccoulson> i would probably make sure there are no events pending on the main loop before doing anything
<hyperair> how do you check that?
<chrisccoulson> so if the value has changed, then the cache is marked invalid before you do anything
<hyperair> and it's likely that there are always events pending, isn't it?
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: i don't suppose g_signal_connect_first would do the trick, would it?
<chrisccoulson> you can use g_main_context_pending / g_main_context_iterating etc, or perhaps you could defer some work with g_idle_add (to ensure that you return to the main loop before doing anything else)
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: how about having all the components of g-p-m share the same devkit handle?
<didrocks> morning seb128 :)
<chrisccoulson> good morning seb128
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<chrisccoulson> pitti - this might be of interest for you: http://mces.blogspot.com/2008/10/improving-login-time-part-1-gnome.html
<pitti> seb128: had a nice weekend?
<chrisccoulson> there is a link to the tools needed to do the profiling, and g-s-d already has all the hooks in
<chrisccoulson> it might be beneficial to do this with the newer version still
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right, I know that blog post, but it seems a bit out of date to me
<pitti> however, the profiling stuff is still interesting indeed
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'll use that for g-s-d
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it is. i haven't got round to trying it yet, but it looks cool
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: lemme try adding a chvt script and reproducing the issue.
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - thanks
<chrisccoulson> this is all a bit heavy for first thing on a monday morning - time to grab some coffee :)
<seb128> lut didrocks, hey chrisccoulson pitti
<seb128> pitti, too short but good, thanks
<seb128> what about you?
<seb128> didrocks, the une gnome-panel has still no clock applet there, known issue?
<pitti> seb128: I'm great, thanks; woke up with startup speed  in my head :)
<didrocks> seb128: hum, even with Friday's update? No, I have mine there. Do you have something in your .local tweaking it? (it just as default)
<seb128> pitti, good ;-) I didn't manage to not thing about it during weekend
<pitti> seb128: FYI, I tested seahorse without the autostart .desktop file, and found two bugs which need to be fixed (linked to the spec now); but for the main use case (ssh/gpg agents) it's working great
<seb128> didrocks, no, I did rm .gconf .local .config
<seb128> pitti, ok
<didrocks> seb128: hum, open a bug and I'll try on a clean config too, so
<seb128> didrocks, I will try again before that
<didrocks> seb128: thanks :)
<seb128> didrocks, had a good wekend otherwise?
<didrocks> seb128: nice one, yes, thanks :) went to the japanese restaurant we talked about during the sprint
<didrocks> seb128: you?
<seb128> didrocks, too short but good otherwise ;-)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - do you know why it fails on the first go when seahorse-daemon is dbus activated?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it doesn't any more
<chrisccoulson> ah, excellent
<pitti> it consistently fails now and seahorse-daemon sigsegv :)
<chrisccoulson> oh no :(
<pitti> bug 512231
<ubottu> Bug 512231 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/512231 is private
<pitti> that's for seahorse-preferences
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i can't view that
<pitti> and for the nautilus plugin it's bug 512233
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 512233 in seahorse-plugins "nautilus extension does not find GPG keys with seahorse-daemon being d-bus activated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512233
<pitti> chrisccoulson: but that also fails to dbus-activate the daemon; I'll debug it now
<pitti> chrisccoulson: "seahorse-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in egg_set_desktop_file()  "
<chrisccoulson> pitti - ah, because you removed the desktop file ;)
<chrisccoulson> does it actually fail to activate completely from dbus (ie, not even start and then crash)?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: the daemon starts, and segfaults
<pitti> thus the UIs just get d-bus errors
<pitti> it might very well be that these two bugs are in fact duplicates
<pitti> I'll fix the crash first, and then check the nautilus plug in again
<chrisccoulson> pitti - ah, ok. if you fix the crash and still get a dbus error on the first go, then i've spotted something which might cause that
<pitti> but I wanted to collect bug reports for all the observable regressions
<pitti> chrisccoulson: sweet, will ask you about it then
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: did you push 2.28.1-0ubuntu4 for seahorse-plugins in desktop team bzr branch? (it seems not)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - did i update it last?
<chrisccoulson> (i cant remember) ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: it was on November :)
<pitti> seahorse-plugins (2.28.1-0ubuntu4) karmic-proposed; urgency=low
<pitti>  -- Chris Coulson <chrisccoulson@ubuntu.com>  Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:34:57 +0000
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - ah, that will be for the fix for the crash bug with a gazillion duplicates
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure if i pushed it to bzr or not (sorry if i didn't) :(
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: you didn't copy it into the trunk. No pb, i'll do it for you :)
<seb128> didrocks, what do you work on there?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - thanks
 * chrisccoulson hugs didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: the failsafe session thing
 * didrocks hugs chrisccoulson
<seb128> didrocks, you think it's a seahorse issue?
<didrocks> seb128: not only a seahorse, you can have a look at bug #512235
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 512235 in seahorse-plugins "Fix gnome failsafe support in lucid (supporting session with arguments" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512235
 * chrisccoulson thinks that seahorse-agent should be a proper session client rather than being launched from Xsession.d
<seb128> ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the issue would be for non GNOME users I guess
<didrocks> seb128: btw, I'll need some sponsoring for xorg (just got an awful "already on repo" for seahorse one :))
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, possibly
<seb128> didrocks, ask #ubuntu-x or bryyce or tseliot
<seb128> I'm not uploading xorg before checking with those guys before
<didrocks> bryyce: tseliot: can you have a look at bug #512235, please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 512235 in seahorse-plugins "Fix gnome failsafe support in lucid (supporting session with arguments" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512235
<didrocks> seb128: ok, make sense :)
<bryyce> hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey bryyce :)
<bryyce> didrocks, would you like to propose a patch for 20x11-common_process-args?
<didrocks> bryyce: normally, you attached a branch
<didrocks> s/you/I
<bryyce> aha, didn't see that
<didrocks> bryyce: it's the +junk, didn't find a "xorg" product on LP
<bryyce> we have xorg in git
<didrocks> oh, that's why I couldn't find any xorg branch outside of lp:ubuntu/xorg
<didrocks> bryyce: do you prefer a simple patch, a git one?
<bryyce> a simple patch or a debdiff would be best
<didrocks> one sec
<bryyce> didrocks, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~didrocks/%2Bjunk/fix-failsafe-session/revision/155?remember=153&compare_revid=153
<didrocks> bryyce: should be attached now
<bryyce> ok
<didrocks> (debdiff)
<bryyce> looks like I had a couple other failsafe changes (unrelated) in the hopper; I'll push all these out together
<didrocks> bryyce: perfect, thanks :)
<bryyce> didrocks, uploaded, and committed to git
<didrocks> bryyce: should I open a bug on Debian, or you will push it there too?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, works fine now, so it's just a dupe of the crash
<bryyce> didrocks, we use debian's git repo so they can see the changes we put through and pick off interesting ones.  However, they could miss it so it would be a good idea to file a bug on it.
<didrocks> bryyce: oh sweet, I'll browse http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-xorg;a=summary to find it :)
<seb128> does edge timeout for other people too when trying to get buglists?
<bryyce> seb128, yeah
<seb128> or open bugs on a package which has quite some
<bryyce> seb128, it's annoying me
<seb128> ok
<seb128> me too
<seb128> did you mention it to the launchpad guys already?
<bryyce> nope
<seb128> ok, I ask on #launchpad if they know about it
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - there's already a bug for that somewhere
<seb128> chrisccoulson, right, #launchpad guys gave me the number, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, right, #launchpad guys gave me the number, thanks
<seb128> ups
<seb128> bah
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> at least non-edge is working correctly
 * pitti declares victory over seahorse
<seb128> pitti, waouh!
<seb128> my current charts are weird
<pitti> sent two patches upstream now
<pitti> seb128: in what way?
<seb128> there is a one second gap with no cpu pick in login
<seb128> didrocks, did you try for the clock applet if you get one?
<didrocks> seb128: normally, I take the one from the gnome session (to get the same locations on the map)
<seb128> ?
<seb128> gnome-session has no clock applet
<seb128> and which map are you talking about?
<didrocks> seb128: not gnome-session, GNOME session (or desktop session, if you prefer)
<didrocks> the map you get when clicking on the applet
<didrocks> below the calendar
<seb128> I'm getting confused
<seb128> the issue there is that the stock config has no clock applet
<seb128> like no hour on the gnome-panel bar
<didrocks> right, and normally, I'm taking the one from the desktop session (the same applet id) to have the same city and location in the clock applet for the 2 sessions
<seb128> I've one in the GNOME session though
<seb128> and I've one in UNE after starting a GNOME session
<seb128> so UNE relies on a GNOME session to be started once and do some config init
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: oh? that's bad :/
<seb128> didrocks, well try to delete the gconf config and reboot with UNE
<didrocks> seb128: I don't know how to share the location so. I have to what what config init it's doing to achieve the same in UNE session
<didrocks> seb128: ok
<seb128> I guess the issue is that gnome-panel doesn't manage to write keys
<seb128> because of the mandatory use
<didrocks> right, it's more than possible
<seb128> ok, done with the weekend backlog
<seb128> let's start work
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - did you have many bugs to work through after the weekend?
<seb128> bugs? not really, rather email
<seb128> some 390 emails in my inbox, 387 being spam
<seb128> some 300 bug emails
<seb128> and reading changes lists in debian, ubuntu and some mailing lists
<pitti> seb128: wow, you get so many false negatives in spam filtering?
<pitti> what do you use?
<seb128> none
<seb128> I use the canonical imap server
<pitti> oh, they don't scan spam and at least mark the mails?
<seb128> I didn't turn on the spam filter option though, some people said it delays emails delivering by hours
<pitti> well, like that it costs you some 15 mins each day, doesn't it?
<seb128> no, I use bogofilter from evo on the inbox
<seb128> which catches 95% of those
<seb128> it just take a bit since it's not server side
<seb128> so it has to download everything to filter
<seb128> I was pondering just activating the spam filtering service
<seb128> but I don't fancy hours of delay in delivering...
<seb128> anyway
<pitti> wow; seahorse bought us 0.7 seconds
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> can I see your chart?
<seb128> btw
<seb128> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-keyring-list/2010-January/msg00007.html
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100125-3.png
<seb128> does anybody has an opinion on that?
<pitti> I still don't understand why gnome-session and ssh-agent now have a 0.5 second delay
<pitti> gconf starts later than the ssh-agent thing
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ^ any idea?
<seb128> I'm not sure if we should upgrade
<pitti> * No more support for hokey ACL prompts, which had almost no security
<pitti>    value at all. This was being patched out by almost all distros.
<pitti> YES! THANKS! YES!
<chrisccoulson> pitti - were those not there before?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: they were, but I thought they were due to seahorse-daemon and gconf
<pitti> chrisccoulson: but we keep eliminating stuff from the critical path, so it's easier to see those now
<seb128> bah
<seb128> nm-applet takes 1 second cpu
<seb128> that's ridiculous
<pitti> seb128: that's after the "final" line, though
<chrisccoulson> pitti - gnome-session still blocks on gconf. i have some packages which probably help that, but i need to update them with all the latest changes before you try them
<seb128> pitti, your mini has no internet?
<pitti> seb128: it does, wpa2
<pitti> it always asks me for my keyring password, and then connects
<seb128> lucky you
<pitti> the gnome-keyring-a* process takes quite some CPU
<chrisccoulson> pitti - FYI, i did some work a while ago which i put here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisccoulson/desktop-startup-speed/
<pitti> seb128: you don't?
<chrisccoulson> but those are out of date now
<seb128> pitti, no
<seb128> sec, I'm getting my charts online
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I just seem to remember that you said "ssh-agent is not what you think it is", and wondered whether I"m missing something
<pitti> I have one free CPU at that time
<pitti> and the ssh-agent process is doing nothing
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, those bars are misleading. gnome-session starts after ssh-agent, but the chart seems to suggest otherwise
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok; so, if nobody has an idea, I'll bisect it down
<pitti> chrisccoulson: but first I'll do the promised g-s-d plugin profiling
<chrisccoulson> the labelling on the bars is messed up by all the fork'ing and execve'ing by things in Xsession.d
<pitti> seb128: when I tried first on this box, it didn't even see my wpa2 essid
<pitti> seb128: it helped to stop/restart wlan on my router
<pitti> then it suddenly worked
<pitti> and now it always works
<pitti> seb128: it worked just fine on the sprint with the open wifi
<pitti> so I didn't give much thought about it
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right, but if I remove the xsession.d stuff step by step it should allow me to see what is what, and which bit introduces the latency
<pitti> seb128: WDYM in particular about the gnome-keyring update?
 * pitti grumbles about PPA buildds constantly being mozilla-ed
<seb128> pitti, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb-dellmini-lucid-20100125-3.png
<seb128> pitti, the issue is not internet now working
<seb128> it's the applet animation
<seb128> I'm on wired ethernet there
<pitti> seb128: oh, how come you don't have the 5 second usb_id delay?
<seb128> and it takes 1 full second cpu
<pitti> oh, -10 kernel
<pitti> seb128: ergh
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm fairly certain that the gnome-session process on your bootchart actually starts it's life as ssh-agent. i had a look at the ssh-agent code, and it fork's, and then the parent exec's gnome-session, whilst the child continues as ssh-agent
<chrisccoulson> and i think dbus-launch does a similar thing too
<pitti> chrisccoulson: aah, that'd explain it
<seb128> pitti, gnome-keyring, seems quite some changes this cycle
<pitti> chrisccoulson: so it's really just gnome-session
<seb128> and
<seb128> "Application or libraries that were speaking gnome-keyring's old
<seb128>    binary internal protocol, are no longer supported.
<seb128> "
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it looks like ssh-agent takes 0.5s and gnome-session is another 0.5s
<seb128> I need to ask upstream details about that
<pitti> seb128: the "allow access to keyring" question is quite ridiculous, though; I'd love to see this go away for the lts
<chrisccoulson> the 0.5s for gnome-session is consistent with the work i did for profiling it
<seb128> right, we can turn that off in our current version
<seb128> pitti, your chart also show a non optimal cpu use now
<seb128> it drops for 2 seconds
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok; it should be much quicker to generate a socket and export an env var; it could do all the costly stuff after fork
<seb128> I'm wondering what to do there
<pitti> indeed
<pitti> seb128: I think mutter does too much init in idle loop now
<pitti> the free cpu corresponds to the hole in mutter
<pitti> (i. e. the UNE next gen thing)
<seb128> well it's not only it
<seb128> there is quite some applets not done loading yet too
<seb128> why don't they keep working there?
<pitti> *nod*
<pitti> seb128: oh, your nm-applet is actually before the red line
<seb128> yes
<seb128> I'm not sure why you don't have one
<pitti> it spins way later
<seb128> I guess that's because you don't autoconnect
<pitti> when I log in, I just see the keyring password
<pitti> well, it tries
<seb128> well I'm on wired eth
<seb128> so no password
<pitti> but I didn't disable my keyring pwd
<pitti> right
<pitti> that needs to be fixed, too
 * pitti adds WI
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I think that was already on the karmic list of things to change?
<pitti> not sure
<seb128> asac, ^ do you know?
<seb128> I'm previous sure having this animation too much cpu costy was discussed previous cycle
<pitti> whoa
<pitti> ssh-agent costs 0.5 seconds
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100125-3.png
<pitti> vs.
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100125-3-no-ssh-agent.png
<seb128> what is it doing during those 0.5s?
<seb128> and why do we have a ssh-agent if we have gnome-keyring too?.
<seb128> urg
<pitti> oh, indeed
<seb128> gnome-keyring agent uses over 1 second cpu
<pitti> I thought it was necessary for seahorse stuff
<seb128> I don't think it is no
<pitti> it works just fine without
<pitti> I'll check with Colin
<pitti> seb128: do you know what sets $SSH_AUTH_SOCK?
<seb128> gnome-keyring-agent
<seb128> gnome-keyring-daemon
<seb128> I mean
<seb128> run it on a  command line
<pitti> hm, wouldn't gnome-session need to do that somehow?
<pitti> I mean, it needs to get into every process' env
<seb128> gnome-keyring sets the gnome-session env over dbus
<pitti> seb128: since we can't check for $SSH_AUTH_SOCK that early on, we could say "don't run ssh-agent if /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-keyring-daemon.desktop exists'?
<seb128> hum, no, that would break !GNOME
<seb128> the autostart has OnlyShowIn=GNOME;
<seb128> so ie xfce users would get none of those running
<pitti> ah, so that and we run gnome?
<seb128> you mean?
<pitti> gnome is in $STARTUP
<seb128> ah
<pitti> seb128: I'd write it very permissive
<pitti> i. e. only not start ssh-agent if we can be sure that we run gnome and we have the keyring autostart
<seb128> it that works
<pitti> we need to check with UNE
<seb128> if
<seb128> right
<pitti> but I'll do that
<pitti> and check with Colin, to be sure
<seb128> you can look at the gnomerc Xsession.d script
<seb128> you can look at the gnomerc Xsession.d script, it does something similar to detect GNOME
<pitti> 'zactly
<seb128> it looks to basestartup and see if gnome-session
<seb128> +it's
<didrocks> pitti: be careful, $STARTUP can be also gnome-session -f. You can check $GDMSESSION maybe
<didrocks> or basestartup, right
<seb128> BASESTARTUP=`basename "$STARTUP" | cut -d\  -f1`
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<pitti> didrocks: "gnome" as a substring should do, shouldn't it?
<seb128> didrocks, that should work no?
<didrocks> seb128: right, that should work :)
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: you're right, the fix didn't quite work.
<pitti> I don't want to call a zillion external programs for that
<didrocks> unfortunate that debian won't take the xorg patch to support "gnome-session args"
<seb128> why not?
<didrocks> seb128: I got a very constructive answer: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=566825
<ubottu> Debian bug 566825 in x11-common "x11-common: Support session with arguments (fix failsafe gnome session)" [Normal,Open]
<didrocks> using reportbug to report it)
<seb128> right...
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - thanks for testing it
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: what needs to be done is the first patch, in another location as well.
<didrocks> seb128: it's the 3rd time in one year, getting tired of this kind of answer
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, that response really sucks
<hyperair> didrocks: you communicate with all the wrong type of people =)
<didrocks> hyperair: seems to be that, right :)
<hyperair> didrocks: there was that other blog post where some debian developer was saying that it annoyed him to see @ubuntu.com email addresses in the changelog.
<didrocks> I pointed Lucas Nussbaum to it, so that he can adapt the "ubuntu doesn't contribute to debian" speech :)
<hyperair> heheh
<didrocks> hyperair: right, I read the flameware few months ago
<hyperair> flameware. i like that word. =p
<didrocks> oupss ^^
<hyperair> didrocks: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=Brice.Goglin@ens-lyon.org <-- this says he doesn't do a thing for debian. i suspect a troll.
<hyperair> or not
<hyperair> he's a DD O_o
<didrocks> hyperair: maybe a DD not contributing for a long time. Well, he closed the bug, I pointed lucas to it and we'll see nextâ¦
<hyperair> didrocks: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=bgoglin@debian.org <-- this says he's pretty active.
<hyperair> didrocks: i say just reopen the bug.
<didrocks> hyperair: right, he's just flaming with the @ens-lyon mail, maybe :)
<hyperair> perhaps.
<didrocks> let's wait if he looks at my answer and if not, I'll speak with debian QA people before reopening it
<hyperair> sure
<seb128> didrocks, reopen saying it's an issue in debian too
<seb128> the reply there is stupid
<didrocks> seb128: ok, doing it now
<geser> I usually strip the "ubuntu" suffix from the version when filing a bug with reportbug
<didrocks> geser: well, ok, but that's just cheating and don't fix the underlying issue which is a social one :/
<geser> true
<pitti> didrocks, seb128: FYI, the $BASESTARTUP stuff in 55gnome-session_gnomerc just works by pure accident; in a later script, $STARTUP already has stuff like "dbus-launch" prepended, so it wouldn't work any more
<seb128> oh
<didrocks> oh bad. maybe the BASESTARTUP stuff should be recorded in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/20x11-common_process-args
<pitti> meh, dash doesn't have anything for checking for a substring
<pitti> ah, I think I know a trick
<pitti> if [ "${STARTUP#*gnome-session}" != "$STARTUP" ]; then we_are_running_gnome
<seb128> pitti, doesn't handle the case where it's x-session-manager though
<pitti> seb128: sure, I added that as well
<pitti> with teh same trick
<pitti> now I need to check whether calling gconftool does bad things there
<pitti> in terms of startup
<pitti> it could just mean that it loads the daemon earlier, which could be fine
<pitti> but destroy Chris' efforts of not blocking on it
<seb128> it will probably put the 0.5 seconds gconf hit there
<pitti> if it delays the startup too much, then we can just as well fix that damn ssh-agent
<seb128> which chriscoulson tried to delay
<pitti> (yay for having two things for the same thing)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for helping on updates
<seb128> didrocks, could you announce on the channel what you start on though?
<didrocks> seb128: no pb, I'm on nautilus now
<seb128> I try to not read emails every 5 minutes during the day so I don't notice workflow bugs
<seb128> ok, I was starting on it
<seb128> and noticed your gvfs bug
<didrocks> gvfs is waiting on new glib
<seb128> that's why I figured I would mention it there ;-)
<seb128> right, I did read comments about that now
<didrocks> ok, I've finished nautilus one, but if you still want to work on it :)
<seb128> no that's ok
<seb128> it closes one open bug I think
<didrocks> I generally check the bug which a release close at the end of the update (you followed the trunk?)
<seb128> didrocks, (yes)
<seb128> didrocks, bug #504185
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 504185 in nautilus "Sidepane misaligned (a few pixels too high)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504185
<seb128> didrocks, I think that one is fixed
<seb128> didrocks, just to spare you the time looking through bugs
<didrocks> seb128: thanks :)
<seb128> you might want to check it's true ;-)
<seb128> it just seems similar to the alignement issue fixed in git
<didrocks> I'll check
<baptistemm> I can check if you want, I'll currently building git
<didrocks> that would be nice :)
<didrocks> seb128: right, it fixes that one
<baptistemm> the alignment issue seems to be fixed, but the bug upstream is not clease
<baptistemm> closed
<pitti> hmm
<pitti> seb128: so, calling gconftool takes 0.4 seconds of CPU, and still causes gconfd to read everything again, apparently
<pitti> that's even more overhead than ssh-agent itself
<seb128> weird
<seb128> I would just expect it to move the gconf database loading there
<seb128> since that's the first call in the session
<pitti> that's what I thought
<pitti> or perhaps gconftool just generally is that expensive
<chrisccoulson> where is gconftool being called?
<chrisccoulson> the first gconf read from any client in the session causes gconfd to read and parse its XML files
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I added it to /etc/X11/Xsession.d/90x11-common_ssh-agent
<pitti> chrisccoulson: to check whether the user disabled ssh agent in g-keyring
<chrisccoulson> i have a gconf patch though to make it read and parse them when it starts, rather than wait for a client
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, ^ should that make a practical difference?
<pitti> isn't gconfd spawned by the library once the first client connects?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - ah, that's not good. one of the things i was trying to do is to delay reading from gconf for as long as possible
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I know
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it was just a test
<chrisccoulson> gconfd is spawned by gnome-session if its not already running
<chrisccoulson> or by a client if it's not already running
<pitti> chrisccoulson: if it wasn't for that gconf key, we could efficiently suppress ssh-agent for GNOME session
<pitti> s
<pitti> chrisccoulson: but on the charts, the XML loading seems to happen right at the start of gconfd already
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it will do if a client activated it and asked for a value
<chrisccoulson> but when it is spawned by gnome-session, it doesn't do anything until a client tries to read a value
<seb128> chrisccoulson, would it make sense to have a random Xsession script triggering the read?
<pitti> I already had an Xsession.d script for taht
<pitti> which called gconftool -g /invalid
<seb128> well does it make next stage faster?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - we could do. the dbus environment has to be set up first though, otherwise you end up with 2 gconfd's in the session
<pitti> it didn't really help, though
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, I think that was the problem
<chrisccoulson> and dbus currently isn't set up until after ssh-agent starts is it?
<pitti> I think I started it too early
<chrisccoulson> gconf needs dbus for clients to discover it
<seb128> I would expect that we could do gconf work at the same time than xrandr etc are active
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i fell in to that trap when i was experimenting with it before
<seb128> oh, right
<pitti> so, I think I'll rather look into ssh-agent itself
<pitti> it shouldn't block everything for 0.5 seconds
<chrisccoulson> yeah, 0.5 seconds is crazy
<didrocks> seb128: apparently, I got a rejection for nautilus. This one is not on the desktop set
<seb128> didrocks, ok, I can sponsor for you
<pitti> are you guys planning to update glib?
<pitti> if so, I'm currently testing whether -O3 makes any difference (for the markup parser -> gconf, etc.)
<seb128> pitti, when there is an update yes
<pitti> ok, so not "right now" then
<seb128> no
<desrt> seb, pitti; hi
<seb128> hey desrt
<didrocks> seb128: dget http://www.didrocks.fr/temp/nautilus_2.29.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
<seb128> had a good weekend?
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> hey desrt
<desrt> ya.  got a lot of work done :p
<seb128> waouh!
<desrt> didrocks: is this the nick you always use?
<desrt> eh.  i have "real paid work" at work that i'm supposed to do
<desrt> and i wasted a lot of the week doing GVariant work instead
<didrocks> desrt: normally, yes :)
<desrt> so i felt guilty and i had to catch up :)
<desrt> didrocks: noted.  hi. :)
<didrocks> desrt: (Didier, we met at last UDS)
<desrt> yes.  i did /whois because i suspected that
<didrocks> seb128: are you working on updating g-p-m?
<seb128> didrocks, we already have 2.29?
<chrisccoulson> there is a gpm update again?
<desrt> is g-p-m fixed yet? :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, 2.28.3
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - ah, we already have 2.29.1
<didrocks> seb128: hum, no, only 2.28.3, sorry
<chrisccoulson> desrt - whats wrong with g-p-m?
<desrt> in karmic it causes my computer to suspend when waking up
<pitti> . o O { speaking of which, the bootchart has two more gconftool-2 invocations; that needs to stop }
<pitti> hey desrt
<desrt> pitti: hi :)
<chrisccoulson> desrt - hyperair is working on that issue, but we've found aother problem with the fix in karmic-proposed
<desrt> cool
<chrisccoulson> but it will be fixed :)
<desrt> maybe i should be running -proposed
<hyperair> i hear my name.
<chrisccoulson> desrt - there is a fix already in karmic-proposed which may fix it for you
<chrisccoulson> but there is still a corner case which affects some users
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: no, it broke.
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: my change broke whatever fix 1.1 did
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - oh, i didn't realise that
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - do you want me to take a look at it too?
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: if you uploaded my most recent patch to both lucid and karmic, then both lucid and karmic are broken again
<hyperair> in addition, gpm upstream.. hughsie committed my patch
<hyperair> which broke whatever fixes the first patch made
<chrisccoulson> ah, so we're back to square one then :(
<hyperair> yes
<hyperair> we are
<chrisccoulson> pitti ^^
<hyperair> because dkp-gobj has such bloody ridiculous behaviour >=(
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: i can work on another hackish solution, but i'm not familiar enough with glib to implement a proper solution to this.
<seb128> didrocks, did you forget to bzr push the changes?
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - i'm at work at the moment, but feel free to ping me later if you need any assistance
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: sure.
<pitti> ah, too bad
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: when do you end work?
<didrocks> seb128: hum? debcheckout took upstream svn. I was thinking there were no branch so. Fixing that now
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - about 17:00 UTC
<hyperair> i see. +8 that would be.. 25.
<hyperair> i'll be awake
<seb128> didrocks, debian svn you mean there?
<seb128> didrocks, ok thanks
<didrocks> seb128: debcheckout definitely take debian svn. Maybe a patch would be needed in that case to prefer vcs-bzr one
<seb128> or we should clean the debian vcs lines
<seb128> I was not sure what to do about those
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: do you think it would be a feasible idea upstream to make all parts of gpm use the same dkp client handle?
<didrocks> you think so? it's an extra line on mergesâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, I've no strong opinion either way
<seb128> didrocks, one control line is not real work
<seb128> didrocks, we add the bzr one anyway it's in the same diff chunck
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - possibly. that might be a better way to do it
<didrocks> seb128: sure, did you sponsor it already or I can remove it?
<seb128> didrocks, sponsored
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - most of the classes in g-p-m are already used as singletons anyway
<hyperair> hmm
<seb128> didrocks, there is a pending change from kees is bzr already anyway
<seb128> didrocks, just queue changes there
<hyperair> gobject is so confusing >_>
<didrocks> seb128: ok, it'll be for next round so, with kees changes
<seb128> didrocks, or get a -0ubuntu2 upload
<hyperair> if gpm were written in C++ it'd be so much more straightforward
<chrisccoulson> so having only one DkpClient instance might be a good idea
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - i love gobject :D
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: and i hate it. i'd rather go vala.
<pitti> gobject from python or vala is indeed great :)
<pitti> it's just a nuisance in C
<chrisccoulson> heh
<didrocks> seb128: where is kees change? bzr log -r -1 show me your last change (debian/patches/11_no_session_delay.patch)
<seb128> didrocks, look to changelog?
<pitti> perhaps we ought to introduce a general best practice to use bound branches
<didrocks> seb128: oh right, seing it
<pitti> so that we don't forget to push any more
<seb128> didrocks, I didn't want to upload it with previous changes I did so I shuffled bzr around
<seb128> pitti, is that "each commit is pushed online"?
<pitti> right
<didrocks> seb128: ok
<hyperair> will upower/disks be entering lucid?
<seb128> pitti, how does that work with offline work?
<pitti> seb128: it fails, or you have to do bzr commit --local
<seb128> pitti, like I'm packaging in the train when coming back from sprint
<pitti> or you have to "bzr unbind" first
<pitti> I'm not generally a huge fan of this mode either
<pitti> it's just another option
<pitti> I only use it for some projects where other people commit often
<pitti> like the WI tracker
<seb128> ok
<seb128> will think about it
<pitti> I think a good middle ground would be to push when you do "debcommit -r"
<pitti> if that had a --push option, then we could set an alias
<pitti> just thinking aloud, tho
<seb128> I don't think it's too much of an issue right now
<seb128> whatever model we pick we will always some have some glitches
<seb128> pitti, are you on the devicekit mailing list?
<pitti> yes, I am
 * pitti tries to figure out whether a .1 second saving is just noise, or the result of glib with -O3
<seb128> <seb128> hughsie, any news about https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24329?
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 24329 in DeviceKit-power "Dell Mini 9 does not show remaining battery time" [Normal,Assigned]
<seb128> <hughsie> seb128: can you ping me a mail to the devkit ml and i'll add it to my todo for this week pls?
<seb128> pitti, ^ could you quickly drop an email about that on the bug? you are the one who sent the bug upstream too ;-)
<seb128> it will avoid me to look for the email address, subscribe, etc
<pitti> seb128: can do, or ping him on IRC
 * pitti keeps tab as a reminder
<seb128> pitti, what I copied is the reply I just got with an IRC ping
<pitti> ah, ok
<pitti> yep, will do
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> arrrrg
<seb128> didrocks, !!!!
<desrt> talk like a french pirate day?
<didrocks> seb128: what?
<seb128> didrocks, we stay on evo 2.28 for lucid
<seb128> didrocks, we stay on evo 2.28 for lucid...
<seb128> didrocks, no gtkhtml 3.29
<seb128> bah
<didrocks> seb128: I didn't upload evo?
<seb128> you did gtkhtml
<didrocks> oh gtkhtml is only related to evo?
<seb128> which is part of the evo stack
<seb128> could you please start pinged there when you do updates?
<didrocks> seb128: yes, it was before you notified me about this (this morning)
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> so, reverting with an epoch?
<seb128> that one is annoying now
<seb128> I hate epochs
<seb128> especially when it means never syncing with debian again
<seb128> didrocks, how much did you try if it works in 2.28?
<pitti> don't do an epoch, please
<pitti> 2.29+really2.28
<didrocks> sorry, I wasn't thinking it was so related to evo, just an external library used. I took care about not touching evo upgrade
<seb128> that's ok
<seb128> but usually when we didn't do any of the 2.29 updates there is a reason
<seb128> so ask there
<didrocks> ok, sorry :(
<seb128> how much did you test it?
<seb128> do you use evo as an email client?
<didrocks> seb128: I restarted evolution IIRC
<didrocks> not sure to have stopped the daemon
<seb128> I'm wondering if we could use the new gtkhtml and evo 2.28
<seb128> let me ask upstream
<didrocks> maybe pitti's trick about 2.28+really2.28 is better?
<seb128> right, I was going for that in any case
<seb128> as said no epoch
<didrocks> ok, I do it right now
<seb128> but I'm checking with upstream if 2.29 can work with evo 2.28
<seb128> and if they would recommend mixing versions
<seb128> didrocks, not don't
<didrocks> ok
<seb128> please stop touching this one for now ;-)
<didrocks> noted down, sorry again :(
<seb128> that's ok
<seb128> happens to everybody
<seb128> but that serves as a lessons for everybody
<seb128> we better communicate on IRC
<seb128> rather than randomly upload ;-)
<seb128> it's part my fault, it's not filtered out on version
<seb128> which I'm not sure why
<seb128> I did filter evo*
<seb128> and gtkhtml too
<seb128> but that didn't work on the gtkhtml version
<seb128> didrocks, the git log suggests it should work fine on lucid
<seb128> let's see how it behaves
<didrocks> seb128: I have restarted the daemon and can't open evolution now
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> what error do you get?
<seb128> what daemon btw?
<didrocks> file not found
<seb128> which file?
<didrocks> evolution âforce-shutdown
<didrocks> ok, the evolution package is in conflict now. Don't know what happened
<didrocks> in any case, revert seems to be needed
<seb128> let me try to upgrade there first
<seb128> I would like to understand why
<didrocks> seb128: you will have a conflict
<didrocks> seb128: I used dpkg -i first
<didrocks> then, had an issue because of shlibs << 2.29
<seb128> conflict between what and what?
<didrocks> so I fixed it
<didrocks> seb128: libgtkhtml-editor0 and libgtkhtml3.14-19
<didrocks> seb128: I update the shlibs and then, maybe evolution has been removed when executing apt-get install -f without noticing it on my side
<seb128> right
<seb128> in any case we need to fix evolution now
<seb128> can you try to rebuild with your new gtkhtml
<seb128> and see how it works once reinstalled?
<seb128> gtkhtml shlib was >> 2.28 << 2.29
<seb128> which is pretty stupid thing to do and coming from debian
<didrocks> ok, let me try to rebuild evolution
<seb128> drop the << part of the gtkhtml shlibs
<seb128> and rebuild evo
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I'm waiting for a reply from upstream too
<seb128> right, evolution got removed now on my une install
<seb128> didrocks, ok, evolution need an upload now in any case
<seb128> didrocks, do you want to do it or should I?
<seb128> didrocks, just to pick the new shlibs
<seb128> it's required in any case since 2.29.is.2.28 would still be > 2.29
<didrocks> seb128: don't you prefer I test it first locally?
<didrocks> oh right
<seb128> no
<seb128> that's just to pick the shlib fix
<didrocks> I can do it if you prefer
<seb128> as you want
<seb128> I've the checkout and everything
<seb128> let me do it there
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> I'm testing locally with the new lib version now
<seb128> hanks
<seb128> thanks
<chrisccoulson> pitti - did you figure out if your 0.1 second saving with -O3 is real?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: no; I'm afraid savings of that magnitude are below bootchart's noise level
 * seb128 thinks charts change too much to get 0.1s out of noise
<chrisccoulson> ah, that's a shame
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'd need to instrument gconfd to print microsecond timestamps
<chrisccoulson> i suppose you'd need to run it a few hundred times to get something that's statistically relevant ;)
<pitti> I won't waste time on that fornow
<pitti> I'll profile g-s-d plugins now, and check out that ssh-agent thing
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/DeviceKit/DeviceKit-power/commit/?id=b8a200eb481a42adf26d639dbdc2224a6c99f841 <-- this needs to get into karmic and lucid. then my second patch will do the trick.
<pitti> there's much more beef there
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: but i should really test build to make sure nothing else goes wrong this time
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - yeah, i was just about to ping hughsie and ask if DkpClient should be a singleton to avoid these issues
<chrisccoulson> so, it seems like he beat me to it ;)
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: i poked him about it ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - ah, thanks :)
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: np. i was actually lying in wait for him for quite a while already, but he always seemed to do his work while not being on irc.
<chrisccoulson> ^^pitti - did you see that too?
<pitti> I just saw the patch
<pitti> I think it's ok to try in karmic-proposed, since except g-p-m not much else is using dk-p yet
<davmor2> asac: I'm doing some testing on hardy.4 FF doesn't seem able to track down the plugin for flash.  I went to the vimeo site as I know it has flash and FF's plugin finder gets triggered.
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks. are you ok to upload that?
<pitti> I'm happy to sponsor something, yes
<pitti> if someone could throw the patch URL to the bug, as a reminder for me?
<pitti> (or just upload it)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i don't think i can upload dk-power
<pitti> chrisccoulson: you can
<pitti> at least as long as KDE/XFCE aren't using it yet, I figure
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, ok. i'll give that a try in a bit
<seb128> didrocks, ok, upstream says there has been incompatible changes
<didrocks> seb128: ok, the build is not finished yet, but if upstream says thatâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, so take the version which was in lucid before you upload
<seb128> and update the changelog using a version 3.29.6.is.3.28.something
<seb128> set the shlib back to what it was for >>
<seb128> and change the << to 3.29.7
<seb128> or 3.30
<seb128> or drop it
<seb128> and upload
<didrocks> ok, doing it right now
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> sorry again
<seb128> no problem
<seb128> happens to everybody
<hyperair> pitti: i noticed the Maintainer for devkit-power isn't set to ubuntu developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss .. blah blah. should i leave it be? (my DEBEMAIL is an @ubuntu.com, so dpkg-buildpackage refuses to let me through without changing it)
<pitti> hyperair: feel free to; I co-maintain it with Michael Biebl in Debian git, so I didn't change it
<hyperair> i see.
 * pitti was lazy and used DEBEMAIL= debuild -S for SRUs
<hyperair> heh
<hyperair> i see.
<rickspencer3> good morning all
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, asac, bryyce, kenvandine, pitti, seb128, chrisccoulson, Nafai, etclll 0/
<hyperair> it hasn't reached morning yet here..
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<seb128> rickspencer3, how are you?
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
<ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: hi
<rickspencer3> I'm a bit crispy this morning, tbh ;)
<chrisccoulson> hey rickspencer3, how are you?
<rickspencer3> had to finally register my nick this morning to get into some of my channels :/
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i think there were a few issues over the weekend with the channels getting spammed
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> good afternoon didrocks
<rickspencer3> looks like a lot of action on blueprints over the last couple of days
<rickspencer3> maybe I should take Fridays off more often
<seb128> heh
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/gnome-settings-daemon-20100125.png
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, good morning
<seb128> pitti, so xrandr and xrdb takes time
<seb128> which we knew
<seb128> nothing really slow otherwise
<pitti> drawing the background is almost a second
<seb128> that's on une right?
<seb128> ie when nautilus doesn't do it
<seb128> that's similar to the time I was getting with nautilus
<pitti> xkl_engine_start_listen takes long, too
<seb128> I had a 0.8 seconds win without a background
<pitti> seb128: right, UNE
<seb128> pitti, right, xkl is in an idle loop though
<seb128> no?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - xkl_engine_start_listen happens after the next phase has started
<chrisccoulson> yeah
<chrisccoulson> seb128 beat me to it ;)
<chrisccoulson> the bits which block the session end at "gnome_settings_manager_start: end"
<seb128> 0.58 seconds start
<seb128> that's actually quite good
<chrisccoulson> but that xrandr delay is sized perfectly to slot in the gconf XML defaults parsing in parallel :)
<chrisccoulson> i don't think both activities fight for CPU activity there
<pitti> chrisccoulson: in other words, your patch should help now?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it should. i just need to get my packages up to date
<pitti> since we eliminated the other bits in the chain?
<didrocks> seb128: I got a FTBFS on gtkhtml (http://paste.ubuntu.com/362663/). I should patch to use something like gtk_widget_is_toplevel() instead of GTK_WIDGET_TOPLEVEL, right?
<seb128> didrocks, yes
<seb128> didrocks, see http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtkhtml/commit/?id=265e4da7d533ab32243f4e63c5c35c12de5d62b2
<seb128> didrocks, I guess you can apply that one directlyhttp://git.gnome.org/browse/gtkhtml/commit/?id=265e4da7d533ab32243f4e63c5c35c12de5d62b2
<didrocks> seb128: I will try, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, you're welcome
<seb128> stupid question but is there any init function required to use GList and GString?
<seb128> I'm used to work on gtk apps and do gtk_init
<seb128> but if that's purely a glib app without any event handling, just strings work
<seb128> bratsche, desrt: ^
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i don't think you need to call anything to use them
<seb128> I don't think either but I'm checking ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<bratsche> Yeah, I don't think so.
<seb128> bratsche, thanks
<pitti> *boggle*
<pitti> after purging pulseaudio, boot time reduced from 16.1 to 14.7
<seb128> urg
<pitti> pulse itself doesn't actually take a noticeable amount of CPU on the charts
<pitti> I wonder whether that's just due to not playing the login sounds, etc.
<rickspencer3> pitti, seems easy to test?
<seb128> pitti, I did cut the xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update from 1 seconds to 0.3 seconds there
<pitti> seb128: wow! just now?
<seb128> that's not really busy time though
<seb128> pitti, yes, it was doing gtk init every time but only needs it when there is a change and a dialog to show
<pitti> rickspencer3: I'll try disabling the sound theme and profile again
<seb128> the gtk init leads to load of loading
<seb128> themes, etc
<pitti> nm-applet is still crazy, though
 * pitti eyes the new NM maintainer
<seb128> right
<seb128> lol
<pitti> I didn't have any network right now
<pitti> (older kernel -> no bcm wl)
<seb128> do we officially have one now?
<pitti> and it took > 1 s
<seb128> similar to my chart then
<seb128> it's the spinning animation...
<seb128> we could animate less
<pitti> but I didn't even see an animation
<pitti> there is no network to connect to
<seb128> weird
<seb128> the 1 second there is the icon spinning for pretty sure
<seb128> it does that while waiting for dhcp reply
<pitti> anyway, for general motivation: that's the state of the art (with old kernel which doesn't have the boot time regression): http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100125-oldkernel.png
<pitti> 16.1 seconds
<pitti> that's pretty awesome already
<seb128> is that with pulse?
<pitti> yes, with pulse
<seb128> bah
<seb128> that gap in cpu use annoys me
<pitti> seb128: as I said, 14.7 without pulse
<pitti> seb128: check out http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100125-oldkernel-nopulseaudio.png
<seb128> it means that for some reason things are waiting
<seb128> and I don't know why
<kklimonda> pitti, and the final target is what - 10 or 15 seconds?
<pitti> for some reason the gap is almost gone there
<pitti> kklimonda: 12 I think
<seb128> so we have desktop around 7 seconds now
<pitti> the mutter plugin still needs a lot of work
<rickspencer3> 10 seconds
 * rickspencer3 whip cracking noises
<kklimonda> btw, now that there is the new merge process involving lots of bzr magic how to merge packages that have branches in ~ubuntu-desktop ?
<seb128> rickspencer3, you said 12 seconds some days ago?
<rickspencer3> :)
<desrt> seb128: you will notice something interesting later today or tomorrow
<seb128> heh!
<rickspencer3> seb128, sabdfl mentioned 12 seconds on one call
<rickspencer3> but I don't know why he changed it from 10 to 12
<seb128> desrt, like desrt * rb4c0b10658bb glib/glib/tests/ (.gitignore Makefile.am gvarianttype.c): add testcase for GVariantType
<seb128> ?
<desrt> seb128: you're too fast :(
<rickspencer3> so we should continute to shoot for 10 until I hear a good reason why the goal changed
<seb128> desrt, ;-)
<desrt> i assumed you only read changelogs while packaging :p
 * seb128 hugs desrt
<pitti> rickspencer3: ack
<seb128> rickspencer3, we do yes
<desrt> (release is coming this afternoon)
<pitti> gvariant hitting glib now?
 * pitti hugs desrt, great work!
<desrt> pitti: parts already have
<desrt> pitti: other parts in the next week or two
<desrt> the merge is actively in progress at this point, though
 * pitti sees http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/log/
<desrt> the type system was the part that matthias had the most concerns about, so hopefully the rest goes easier :)
<seb128> the plumber boot is 1 second over target too right now
<seb128> it means if they get what they want we are down to 13.7s
<seb128> without pulseaudio
 * desrt has a solution!
<desrt> change pulseaudio into system daemon mode
<desrt> that way it goes under plumbing budget :)
<seb128> lol
<desrt> no.  but seriously.  that would actually be kinda nice for when you have audio streaming setup
<desrt> it annoys me that i have to login to [arbitrary user account] in order to be able to stream to my shared speakers
<desrt> should just work
<seb128> is there any reason to not want to do that?
<desrt> i don't know.
<pitti> all users would share the same daemon
<desrt> but is that bad?
<pitti> so it could be a security concern
<pitti> but anyway, Lennart strongly recommends using per-user
<desrt> ah.  good to know.
<pitti> so as distro packagers we better follow that
<desrt> is his concern the security one?
<pitti> it's easy to enable, of course; it has an init script and all that
<pitti> desrt: I'm not sure
<pitti> could also be weird race conditions and what not
<pitti> in particular, you would loose the automatic ACLs on sound devices
<desrt> true.
<pitti> i. e. all users could accesss the sound card at the same time, even the inactive sessions
<pitti> or ssh ones
<pitti> but as I said, that's just my braindump
<desrt> sounds like good enough reasons to me
<seb128> pitti, note that without pulseaudio you have things not starting in the session
<seb128> pitti, like the mixer notification icon
<seb128> pitti, and the g-s-d volume key handler probably exit too
<pitti> seb128: right; I very much susped those secondary effects
<pitti> seb128: my secret hope is that disabling the sound theme by default makes it faster
<pitti> and these are just a nuisance in public environments anyway
<pitti> which is a good excuse for a netbook!
<seb128> did you try that?
<pitti> seb128: I'm at it
<seb128> hum
<seb128> so g-s-d is buggy when it comes to displaying a solid color background
<seb128> rickspencer3, do you remember what crashed exactly when we tried empathy video call a week ago? was that segfault? did you send it to launchpad?
<rickspencer3> seb128, I don't remember
<rickspencer3> I don't think there was a crash
<rickspencer3> sorry
<seb128> ok, no problem
<seb128> we might try again tomorrow ;-)
<rickspencer3> sounds good
<seb128> I'm looking at the empathy update
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<pitti> ok, no win on disabling the sound theme
<didrocks> ok :)
<didrocks> pitti: your ears get some win there :)
<fagan> Hmmm is that a known issue that the sound notifications slow emapthy down a little
<fagan> Mine freezes for like a second when the sound is about to play
<pitti> so I just added a WI for nm-applet
<rickspencer3> pitti, work items are going up!
 * rickspencer3 chiver
<rickspencer3> shiver, even
<pitti> I know, I keep adding them for startup-speed :)
<pitti> but at the same time half of them got fixed, too
<fagan> rickspencer3: well mine will be done by the end of the day I think :)
<rickspencer3> fagan, yeah!
<pitti> or even more
<rickspencer3> pitti, well, if we're doing that work (and by "we" I mean "you" ;) ) it may was well be accounted for
<rickspencer3> :)
<rickspencer3> so thanks for keeping the work items up to date, it's good for folks in the community and what not to see what's going on too
<pitti> nevertheless, 'nuff boot speed stuff for today; dinner, and then some sponsoring, and some sport
<seb128> I should add the things I do too
<seb128> like the xdg-user-dirs change
<rickspencer3> seb128, yeah, that would be good
<pitti> seb128: please do; I used to add the time that it saves when flipping to done
<didrocks> pitti: simple-scan is already in main. Apparently, no MIR to do on it (and one less WI ;))
<fagan> has it been seeded?
 * fagan hates xsane
<didrocks> fagan: I think so, it's on ubuntu-desktop task at least
<pitti> didrocks: I did the MIR some days ago, lool approved, I changed the seeds
<pitti> didrocks: hm, I only changed the ubuntu-desktop seed, though, not UNE
<pitti> fagan: yes
<pitti> u-meta needs a rebuild now
<pitti> ... doing
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I've removed the WI as I thought it was invalid
<didrocks> pitti: I'm adding it to the UNE seed so
<pitti> didrocks: it was duplicated with the document-scanning spec; thanks
<pitti> didrocks: oh, can you commit ther?
<didrocks> pitti: I don't remember if I was able to commit just the seed (not the meta-package)
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<seb128> chrisccoulson, wb
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, good! you?
<seb128> getting ready for sport, I've to leave in some minute
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm good thanks. just arrived back from work :)
<seb128> will be back after that though
<didrocks> pitti: it was already there. We did it apparently during the sprint (same for gwibber). I'm doing the gwibber MIR now
<seb128> getting gwibber promoted?
<didrocks> seb128: for UNE default app, yes
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I've to go now, sport time
<seb128> didrocks, kenvandine: I didn't manage to start on the empathy upgrade
<seb128> if one of you want to work on if feel free
<didrocks> seb128: ok, taking it
<seb128> I will have a look when coming back from sport in 2 hours otheriwse
<didrocks> kenvandine: ^
<seb128> didrocks, thanks!
<didrocks> y/w :)
<seb128> see you later
<pitti> bye everyone
<didrocks> bye bye pitti
<kenvandine> didrocks, cool... there are major changes coming to gwibber this week
<kenvandine> i need to run to an appointment though, can we talk about it tomorrow/
<kenvandine> ?
 * kenvandine runs out for 2 back to back doctor's appointments, be back in about 2 hours
<didrocks> kenvandine: sure
<mclasen> pitti: around ?
<Nafai>  yay for ubuntu developer week.  Help get me a good head start for starting next week
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - i think pitti is finished for the evening now
<bryyce> chrisccoulson, hey a week or so ago you asked me about http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25855 - did you get a chance to file an SRU for that?
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 25855 in Server/general "Screensaver not disabled because of a XResetScreenSaver() regression" [Normal,New]
<chrisccoulson> hey bryyce - not yet, i've not had any spare time to follow it up yet
<chrisccoulson> the patch had some review comments on xorg-devel. i need to check the status of that really
<bryyce> chrisccoulson, ok, good idea.
<bryyce> chrisccoulson, I'll keep it on my todo list to check back with you about it
<chrisccoulson> bryyce - thanks. i'll hopefully get a chance to look at that in the next couple of days or so
<bryyce> sounds great
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/362823/
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - thanks. does that seem to resolve the issue?>
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: yes.
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: but before you upload it..
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: i think it'd be better to have the users test it out of a PPA first
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - yeah, that sounds ok
<hyperair> i've already made two crap uploads, i don't want to make a third crap one.
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: also, there's this patch for devkit-power-gobject that i thought was necessary at first, but doesn't seem to be necessary after all
<hyperair> it makes dkpclient a singleton
<fagan> rickspencer3 or didrocks are either of you free to do a merge to get my quickly docs :)
<didrocks> fagan: not right now, but open a merge request :)
<fagan> Cool, its not perfect but it works and its all docbook
<huats> didrocks, gtksourceview is for me !
<didrocks> huats: ok, was going to take it there, but if you want it, take it :)
<huats> great !
<huats> thanks
<huats> didrocks, I am about to start it but with the little baby not sure to end it tonight.... I'll finish it by tomorrow anyway
<didrocks> huats: ok :)
<didrocks> hum, we are in sync for epiphany-webkit. Let's keep like that
<fagan> didrocks: just one small question how do you want me to open yelp?
<fagan> to open yelp in bash its yelp <file>
<didrocks> fagan: so, yelp file, using subprocess module :)
<didrocks> fagan: maybe #quickly is better for that
<fagan> Ok :)
<didrocks> fagan: you can't join?
<fagan> Just got there didrocks :)
<didrocks> working on mousetweaks
<didrocks> hey seb128, how was your sport evening?
<didrocks> taking gedit
<seb128> didrocks, good thanks
<seb128> just had dinner
<seb128> what about you?
<didrocks> seb128: some updates finally coming :)
<didrocks> seb128: I didn't touch to glib on purpose. I think you wanted to do it
<seb128> yes I will do it thanks
<didrocks> finishing gedit and then, taking a break. Didn't stop more than 30 min from this morning
<seb128> urg
<didrocks> (but I don't have the feeling to have done so much work, unfortunately :/)
<seb128> you should stop yes
<seb128> you did quite some updates
<seb128> you can let the accessibility ones to TheMuso btw
<didrocks> that's why I just finish an easy one: gedit
<seb128> he usually do those since he knows better how to do testing
<seb128> ie mousetweak
<didrocks> ok, will do for next time. I was waiting for you to come back for glib in fact :)
<didrocks> ah, and huats is working on gtksourceview
<didrocks> between two baby cries :)
<didrocks> for mousetweak, I rebooted the session and try some accessibility key. But sure, I can't test it as much as TheMuso does
<seb128> didrocks, ok, excellent work
<didrocks> thanks :)
<seb128> doing some testing, be back later
<seb128> bbl
<azteech> anyone know if there is a ubuntu-branded version out for firefox 3.5/3.6, 64-bit 9.04?
<azteech> know there is one out for 9.10 .. but am running 9.04
<ccheney> azteech: #ubuntu-mozillateam might know
<ccheney> azteech: aiui if not yet there will be one eventually, i don't know the current status
<azteech> ccheney, thanks .. :)
<chrisccoulson> has anyone got any experience running the intel gma4500 graphics chipset that seems to come as standard in dell laptops at the moment?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, bryyce probably has an idea about how it's working
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks
<chrisccoulson> i'm laptop shopping and i have no idea what to buy :(
<seb128> not easy indeed
<seb128> distro team people mostly have lenovo or dell laptops nowadays
<seb128> distro team people mostly have lenovo or dell laptops nowadays
<seb128> ups
<seb128> I'm happy with my latitude one
<seb128> I've not looked recently a newer models though
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm looking at the dells at the moment
<seb128> I recommend intel hardware where you can and ssd disk
<seb128> my laptop is all intel and everything works out of the box
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll try and stick to intel hardware
<seb128> no wifi chipset issue, no video binary driver breakages
<seb128> it's probably not as fast for 3d that other cards but for what I do...
<bryyce> chrisccoulson, most of the intel graphics stuff is reasonably well tested
<chrisccoulson> seb128 / bryyce - thanks :)
<jcastro> chrisccoulson: I have a 4500 in my thinkpad, it's solid.
<chrisccoulson> jcastro - thanks :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-01-26
<al-maisan> Good morning!
<pitti> good morning
<baptistemm> heloi
<baptistemm> hello
<didrocks> good morning pitti
<didrocks> hey al-maisan and baptistemm :)
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, how are you?
<pitti> hey al-maisan! want to become a desktop hacker now? :-)
<didrocks> pitti: very fine, it's update day, again \o/
<didrocks> pitti: you? :)
<baptistemm> I read ubuntu won't provide version 2.30 for evolution, right? what is the reason for that?
<al-maisan> pitti: why not :)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128 :)
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: you didn't go to bed too late yesterday? :)
<seb128> I'm having a look to the gtk update
<seb128> didrocks, no that's ok, 0:30 or something
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> didrocks, I just did the glib update which too a bit since there is new apis and a new gio query tool to run
<seb128> hey pitti
<didrocks> ok, I'm finishing the file-roller one. There is an issue with tomboy in configure failing, didn't find it yet.
<didrocks> seb128: yes, I've read the changelog. The new gio query tool can be useful for any debugging bit?
<seb128> didrocks, no, it's to make a cache, it's not an user tool
<seb128> I need to ask to alex how it works, for now the cache is empty
<didrocks> seb128: hum, ok
<pitti> meh, firefox just dies and does nothing any more with my profile
<didrocks> seb128: gnome-doc-utils hasn't been updated for a while, is it intended?
<seb128> didrocks, no
<didrocks> ok, doing it so
<seb128> thanks
<mvo> hrm, is LP a bit on the slow side these days?
<seb128> mvo, I've not tried today yet
<seb128> mvo, I had to switch to non-edge yesterday because edge was timeouting on buglists
<seb128> mvo, which one do you use?
<mvo> edge, slow and timeouts :/
<mvo> I try the non-edge now
<seb128> timeout issues on edge is a known issue
<mvo> ok, thanks
 * mvo celebrates commit r50 to the gnome-terminal packaging branch
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<seb128> hey hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
<didrocks> hello chrisccoulson
<seb128> good!
<seb128> you?
<seb128> hate g-s-d
<seb128> the thing keep crashing every morning
<seb128> and the "don't use the pc speaker" doesn't work after restarting it...
<seb128> to give some context I suspend the laptop undocked
<seb128> and tend to wake it up docked
<seb128> and it crashes when trying to active the external screne
<seb128> screen
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm good thanks
<chrisccoulson> you're having problems with g-s-d?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> what I just described
<seb128> it crashes on me every morning
<seb128> for one thing wake the laptop docked with lid closed
<seb128> and you get no screen
<seb128> it should activate the monitor
<chrisccoulson> ah, that's a pain. perhaps i could have a look at that
<seb128> I've to open the lid
<seb128> and use the magic xrandr key
<seb128> then g-s-d crashes
<chrisccoulson> i've got a laptop and docking station on the way now, so i should be able to reproduce all these issues that people have
<seb128> then I start gnome-appearance-capplet which restart it
<seb128> and from then I get this loud and annoying speaker
<seb128> which forces me to restart my session
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, you are a fast decider :-)
<chrisccoulson> the crash after hitting the xrandr key after the display configuration changes seems similar to what slangasek has, which seems to be triggered by a xorg issue
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I took me ages to pick a laptop when I bought mine
<seb128> which one did you take?
<seb128> pitti, did you already do a une chart today?
<chrisccoulson> i got a latitude e5500 in the end. it looks a bit bulky, but then, i need something i can work on every day. and it has all intel hardware
<chrisccoulson> i also got a docking station and 20" monitor too
<pitti> seb128: I did, just not copied to my server; you need one?
<seb128> pitti, I'm just curious to see the difference with yesterday's one
<pitti> I did a clean reinstall with today's daily ISO this morning
<seb128> I cleaned my cache yesterday
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti - i updated my packages in http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisccoulson/desktop-startup-speed/ last night, and rebased them on the current ubuntu versions
<chrisccoulson> feel free to test them at some point :)
<seb128> pitti, ok, so it will be slower than yesterday's one you did right?
<seb128> pitti, ie you had your wncksync caching in use and other changes
<pitti> yes, it has the normal wncksync again
<pitti> the other changes should all be in
<seb128> pitti, how much does xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update takes?
<pitti> seb128: uploaded (daniel-lucid-20100126-1.png)
<seb128> danke
<pitti> seb128: it literally disappeared, AFAICS
<mvo> who is doing tracker these days? I just ran across bug #474324 and wonder if its ok to drop the /usr/lib/deskbar-applet/deskbar-applet dir from the package
<seb128> pitti, ok, good, so that worked ;-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 474324 in tracker "package libdeskbar-tracker 0.6.95-1ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/deskbar-applet/deskbar-applet', which is also in package deskbar-applet 0:2.26.1-0ubuntu1" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/474324
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<chrisccoulson> hey mvo - that's probably me (sort of)
<seb128> mvo, you?
<seb128> mvo, it's all yours
<pitti> seb128: my wncksync merge was approved, but nobody did it yet
<seb128> mvo, official reply otherwise is "nobody" or "chrisccoulson when he has time but we prefer him to focus on default desktop things"
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> pitti, ok
 * pitti tries to rescue his firefox profile
<chrisccoulson> mvo - i have some people interested in helping out with tracker packaging here: https://launchpad.net/~tracker-team
<chrisccoulson> i don't know whether any of them would be interested to look at that
<chrisccoulson> they're mainly focused on 0.7.x at the moment
<mvo> chrisccoulson: its seems like its a very simple thing, wrong path or something
<chrisccoulson> mvo - i can look at that, it shouldn't take me long
<chrisccoulson> feel free to assign it to me
<mvo> seb128: does "nobody" mean that I should stop caring too?
<chrisccoulson> mvo - yes
<chrisccoulson> :P
<seb128> mvo, no, it means you are welcome to step and take over it ;-)
<seb128> mvo, it's just a "too much to do and not being a priority for us" issue
<seb128> mvo, joke aside we are just too busy to look at it but that bug seems something easy to fix, I can have a look
<mvo> chrisccoulson: thanks, I give it 5min, I think I have a idea what is wrong
<mvo> seb128: its ok, I know everybody is busy
<chrisccoulson> mvo - don't worry about it too much. i'm just in #tracker speaking to a potential volunteer ;)
<mvo> chrisccoulson: oh, nice
<seb128> mvo, how come directories create conflicts?
<mvo> its a dir in one package and a file in the other
<seb128> oh
<mvo> yeah
<mvo> I think its just a bug in the .install file somwhere
<seb128> or upstream which didn't expect libexecdir to be there
<mvo> it should not be a double deskbar-applet dir, then it should work
<seb128> didrocks, looking to the g-s-d update
<chrisccoulson> ah, never mind, my potential volunteer prefers to stay focused on the 0.7 version at the moment
<seb128> session restart brb
<chrisccoulson> mvo - so, i can take a look at that when i get a spare 5 minutes
<didrocks> taking yelp update
<didrocks> seb128: taking yelp update
<seb128> good luck ;-)
<seb128> I think we synced the debian version using the webkit codebase
<seb128> not sure how that would apply to current
<seb128> don't bother too much with it if it's not trivial
<didrocks> seb128: it's not :-)
<didrocks> ok, delaying this one
<didrocks> seb128: btw, my gnome-doc-utils upload was rejected
<didrocks> (permission)
<seb128> I start hating those team uploads
<seb128> I can sponsor it for you
<mvo> chrisccoulson: nice, thanks. I added the info I gathered into the bugreport
<didrocks> seb128: ~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-doc-utils/ubuntu
<chrisccoulson> mvo - thanks
<didrocks> thanks :)
<seb128> you guys should apply for main upload
<mvo> it makes http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/ look unhappy, this is why I care
<seb128> mvo, how come, we should have neither deskbar nor tracker installed
<seb128> especially not on server...
<mvo> seb128: it comes from a hardy->lucid one
<seb128> I don't think we had tracker by default in hardy, did we?
<mvo> seb128: the upgrade tester tests a bunch of different setups, server is doing fine, desktop not currently, I fixed a bug in g-t
<mvo> seb128: I don't know, I use whatever apt-get install ubuntu-desktop gives me
<seb128> that sucks
<mvo> seb128: even then, its still a bug and would show up in the "main-all" profile otherwise
<mvo> hu? that we have bugs?
<seb128> it means people upgrading will get that buggy ressource sink on karmic?
<mvo> or that we have tools to discover them ,)
<seb128> can't we fix that?
<didrocks> taking gnome-games, testing will be a little relaxing :)
<seb128> no, to have tracker on upgrade
<mvo> manybe we should get it out of main if it sucks?
<seb128> it's eating ios and power for no use
<mvo> I mean, removing it is trivial
<seb128> +1
<mvo> heh :)
<mvo> I check why its there (well, I added to check on my todo list)
<seb128_> re
<seb128_> got disconnected
<pitti> seb128_, didrocks: am I ok to touch gnome-control-center?
<didrocks> pitti: sure
 * pitti has an one-second boot speed present
<seb128_> pitti, if you touch it you do the version update too :-p
<seb128_> pitti, urg? gnome-control-center is supposed to not be running at all at login
<seb128_> it's only the capplets nowadays
<pitti> seb128_: no, but adding an AutostartCondition to /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-at-session.desktop works wonders :)
<pitti> it avoids calling gconftool and a shell script which just checks a gconf key and exits
<chrisccoulson> pitti - what phase does that start in?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: normal app phase
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thats ok then
<seb128_> who cares about accessiblity after all
<seb128_> ;-)
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100126-1.png
<chrisccoulson> pitti - did you manage to test the packages in http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisccoulson/desktop-startup-speed/ ?
<pitti> it's the gnome-at-visual/gconftool-2 pair
<pitti> chrisccoulson: not yet, sorry
<seb128_> pitti, it's weird
<pitti> took me a bit to repair firefox, and I'm still fighting with glib
<chrisccoulson> pitti - no worries
<pitti> seb128_: why?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - you're testing the UNE sessionn aren't you?
<seb128_> pitti, I would have though that AutostartCondition would be as expensive
<seb128_> if that's about reading a gconf key too
<pitti> seb128_: right, but this executes a shell script plus gconftool-2, as in the program
<chrisccoulson> seb128_ - with my changes, gconf should be ready by the time the autostart condition is read
<pitti> seb128_: I expect that gnome-session just uses a library call, and has gconf connection already
<pitti> and other desktop files have an AutostartCondition already, so one more check should be trivial
<chrisccoulson> part of my gnome-session patch delays reading the value for the autostart condition until necessary
<seb128_> pitti, I'm just surprised it costs that much but good ;-)
<seb128_> I'm checking there
<seb128_> last time I tried to drop all the autostart it was winning less than 1 second there
<seb128_> the autostart*s*
<seb128_> ie, /etc/xdg/autostart
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100126-1-gnome-at-autostartcond.png
<pitti> oh, I see
<pitti> it moved the "I'm done" bar much more to the front
<seb128_> pitti, commenting it in the session capplet makes no win there
<seb128_> it was 0.2 seconds slower in fact
<seb128_> but that's random difference between boots
<pitti> weird; saving a shell script and yet another external program (gconf) should be expensive
<pitti> s/saving/calling/
<pitti> hm
<pitti> I do another one, to compare
<seb128_> in the 0.1s magnitude expensive I would say
<seb128_> we have lot of those ran
<seb128_> as chrisccoulson said yesterday
<seb128_> all those .desktop with a sleep
<pitti> seb128_: so you wouldn't like to see the change?
<seb128_> pitti, I do, I was just surprised that it won so much to you because I tried to disable the autostarts there and it was not making such a difference
<seb128_> still seem a good idea
<pitti> seb128_: as I said, it wasn't actually winning a second; it just lightened the load a bit, and bootchart considered the startup done earlier
<seb128_> and should be a bit less expensive even if it's not a one second win
<seb128_> right
 * seb128_ hugs pitti
<pitti> ok
<pitti> seb128_: I'll do the new version, too, then
<pitti> next on my list is to identify this python process
<seb128_> pitti, don't bother
<pitti> the only two python things that we start are the printer applet and jockey
<pitti> but both have a sleep before
<pitti> seb128_: bother> about the python one?
<pitti> you know what it is?
<seb128_> pitti, the sleep one is the scriptto add indicator applet
<seb128_> add-indicator-applet.py
<chrisccoulson> pitti - do we need to delay starting those with a sleep?
<pitti> seb128_: right, but that also has sleep
<chrisccoulson> if so, i can implement a gnome-session to add a autostart delay key to the desktop files
<pitti> seb128_: (but right, that's the third python one)
<chrisccoulson> to avoid spawning a shell
<seb128_> chrisccoulson, would be nice
<pitti> chrisccoulson: that would be great indeed
<chrisccoulson> cool, i'll work on that then
<pitti> seb128_: right, but on our charts there's a python process which starts right away; so you don't know what that is either?
<seb128_> pitti, no
 * didrocks marks this day as being the easiest update of gnome-games ever done (nothing to touch to the packaging \o/). Just had to trigger the build twice because of a xml2po call failing
<seb128_> hehe
<seb128_> chrisccoulson, the gnome-session capplet still fails to store change when closed to quickly
<seb128_> I keep getting the issue
<chrisccoulson> seb128_ - did we ever backport the change from git to fix that?
<seb128_> dunno
<chrisccoulson> i don't think we did, and there hasn't been a release this cycle
 * seb128_ looks
<lool> didrocks: Is there a Vcs-Bzr for wncksync?
<seb128_> chrisccoulson, you are right
<seb128_> thanks
<didrocks> wncksync is in universe when it was NEWed? I was thinking it was promoted to main in the first shot
<didrocks> lool: it's directly lp:ubuntu/wncksync
<asac> strange ... since a few days my irssi refuses to autojoin #ubuntu-desktop #ubuntu-motu and #ubuntu-bugs ... every other channel seems to be fine :/
<seb128_> you need to be registered I think
<chrisccoulson> seb128_ - http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-session/commit/?id=dd9df169196441717498ac09ee8c437fb552116e
<seb128_> they got some spambot issues or something
<asac> when did tha tchange?
<chrisccoulson> asac - at the weekend i think
<asac> oh right #ubuntu-devel has the same problem somewhat
<asac> i am registered
<asac> guess its a race
<asac> e.g. first join then register or something
<asac> who is leading this anti spambot effort?
 * asac finds this kind of a drastic measure
<asac> if permanently
<lool> asac: Perhaps they lowered the number of channels one is allowed to join?
<lool> I know I've hit that limit a bunch of time
<hyperair> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AspireOne/Ubuntu9.10 <-- i'm thinking it might be a good idea to include the pm-utils sleep hook script on that page in our pm-utils package.
<lool> I have to identify before /join-ing
<hyperair> does anyone have an opinion?
<seb128_> pitti, python seems to come from the print applet, dunno why though
<pitti> seb128_: weird; it also has a sleep
<asac> lool: hmm maybe
<pitti> anyway, I'll track it down
<pitti> seb128_: I finished wrestling with glib, so this has my full attention again :)
<lool> didrocks: In wncksync changelog,     - change libglib2.0-dev version dependency to get glib fix
<lool> didrocks: Could you expand on that?
<lool> didrocks: Which fix is that?
<seb128_> lool, 71_gio...
<seb128_> lool, it's a patch which adds a feature wncksync needs
<lool> Ok; thanks
<seb128_> pitti, did you manage to improve glib?
<lool> seb128: Is there a Vcs-Bzr for glib2.0 or do you use lp:ubuntu/glib2.0 as well?
<seb128> lool, no
<lool> You don't use any?
<seb128> lool, we are in sync with debian most of the time
<seb128> so I didn't bother setting a vcs to have extra work when doing syncs
<seb128> I guess we could use lp:ubuntu/glib2.0
<pitti> seb128: the assert msg patch caused some problems, fixed now
<lool> seb128: Ok
<seb128> pitti, the upstream version?
<pitti> seb128: right
<lool> seb128: Ah glib2.0 isn't imported
<seb128> pitti, ok, sorry about that
<seb128> pitti, how did you notice?
<seb128> pitti, just curious to improve my glib testing before upload ;-)
<pitti> seb128: mclasen pinged me about https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=594872
<ubottu> Gnome bug 594872 in general "Support storing assertion messages into core dump" [Enhancement,New]
<seb128> oh ok
<pitti> seb128: the private glibc symbol caused some linking problems on Fedora  apparently
<pitti> seb128: and "make distcheck" was failing (due to the out-of-tree build)
<pitti> seb128: don't worry, they didn't come and say "OMGyoubrokeithowcanyoubesobad", they just asked me whether I can look into it :)
<seb128> ok, good
<pitti> hm, g-c-c 2.29.6 has a NEWS file from 2.29.4
<pitti> don't they get updated usually?
<pitti> ah, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/log/ is small enough
<lool> seb128: Is it ok to push glib2.0 (just a trivial packaging change)
<lool> Or do you have lots of GNOME stuff in the pipe which might FTBFS?
<seb128> lool, talk to pitti, he was just working on it
<lool> pitti: ^
<seb128> lool, we will deal with build retry for GNOME updates
<pitti> lool: I have nothing urgent for glib2.0
<lool> It's not urgent here either, just doing it now if I can forget about it  ;)
<pitti> what I just talked about was purely an upstream issue, no hurry to get that in
<pitti> lool: do it :)
<lool> lintian is on crack today
<lool> W: glib2.0 source: patch-system-but-direct-changes-in-diff libglib2.0-0.install and 1 more
<seb128> lool, did you upload already?
<lool> No
<seb128> lool, would be nice to rebase on debian if you want to do it ;-)
<seb128> lool, slomo did the update and did the gio-query call as a trigger
<seb128> the only change we have should be the gio change for wncksync
<lool> Ok
<seb128> thanks
<lool> Guess what -- lintian was not on crack!
<lool> glib2.0-2.23.2/libglib2.0-0.install
<lool> glib2.0-2.23.2/libglib2.0-dev.install
<lool> In the patch
<seb128> urg
<seb128> didrocks, you can do the gvfs update btw
<seb128> the gio lazy init might win some speed
<pitti> seb128: ah, I know now; it seems that bootchart retroactively labels the shell process (which first ran sleep) "python", since that execs
<pitti> so it's not really running python
<seb128> ok
<seb128> same issue than the ssh-agent one
<asac> to which locations can i put .desktop files to make them appear in the gnome menu?
<asac> (user locations)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i saw you just update g-s-d. i'll have a g-s-d change for you later, to fix the volume notification overshoot which doesn't work
<chrisccoulson> (when it stops crashing with my change in anyway)
<seb128> asac, .local/share/applications
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok
<pitti> njpatel: good morning
<pitti> njpatel: my wncksync branch was approved; do I need anything to merge it? (I can't do it myself)
<asac> seb128: do you know if its possible to overwrite a system .desktop file in that way? e.g. by using the same name or something?
<njpatel> pitti, will get dbo to merge and make a release, we have another thing that needs to be fixed too, so we can roll your work and that together in a release
<pitti> njpatel: thanks
<seb128> asac, yes it is
<pitti> njpatel: other question, did you ever test when mutter actually starts loading the plugins?
<asac> i basically want to ship a generic .desktop file (like mail) and then based on the user decision change the name/icon slightly
<asac> e.g. evo tbird, gmail etc.
<pitti> njpatel: IOW, how much of the 7.5 second mutter startup is due to the plugin, and how much due to mutter init?
<asac> seb128: cool so if i put the same file name there it will replace the system one?
<seb128> asac, I think it should
 * asac tries
<pitti> njpatel: (sorry, it's more like 6.2 s; mislooked)
<didrocks> seb128: ok, putting gvfs on my queue :) (fixing some une related stuff now)
<seb128> ok thanks
<asac> yay
<asac> that really works
<asac> !!
<seb128> ;-)
<asac> why is everything so easy ... boring ;)
<seb128> asac, speaking of desktop files btw
<seb128> asac, bug #512692 known issue?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 512692 in gnome-panel "Firefox icon missing from panel after 3.5->3.6 upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512692
<seb128> asac, did you rename or drop the desktop entry?
<njpatel> pitti, I don't think we know exactly when it starts loading plugins
<asac> seb128: should be still firefox.desktop ... i think i even tried that
<asac> hmm
<asac> so the icon name might have changed
<asac> guess if someone sets up a launcher manually that would break
<pitti> njpatel: ok; I think I'll test that then
<asac> is our default launcher setup manually?
<njpatel> pitti, cool, that would be useful info
<pitti> njpatel: btw, looking at the large gaps in mutter, can it be that the plugin does parts of the initialization in an idle loop?
<pitti> njpatel: I suppose it doesn't have lots of sleeps in it, or sth like that :)
<njpatel> pitti, yes, it does
<njpatel> (I thought I mentioned that :)
<seb128> asac, no, it's part of the gnome-panel profile
<asac> seb128: what i verified was to add a launcher with right click in the menu for 3.5 and then upgraded ...killall gnome-panel etc.
<pitti> njpatel: ah; that explains why it's so scattered
<pitti> njpatel: right, ISTR that you talked about it, but wanted to confirm
<didrocks> seb128: the gio-querymodules is the new glib stuff, right?
<seb128> asac, +        <string>firefox.desktop</string>
<asac> seb128: right. but does that refer to the .desktop file?
<asac> hmm
<asac> ok
<asac> thats ok
<seb128> asac, I will try there and ping you back
<seb128> didrocks, yes, don't bother about it
<asac> thanks ...
<seb128> didrocks, new glib will have a trigger for those
<njpatel> pitti, we try and hand back the main-loop to mutter asap, so it can present the desktop to the user. The rest we do as in idle once that is done.
<didrocks> seb128: ok, thanks :)
<njpatel> pitti, that's what I meant that the time bootchart shows will be a bit different than the time it really 'feels' like the desktop is loaded
<pitti> njpatel: that's true
<pitti> I'm afraid there's a mismatch between what an user considers as "done" and what bootchart does..
<njpatel> Sure, but I don't think we should be initiall blocking the WM from loading too much (we may still push more things out of the _init). Just because we're uncessarily blocking (the user doesn't need the places straight away)
<lool> didrocks: Could someone from DX subscribe to the wncksync bugs in launchpad?  or at least the ubuntu desktop bug contact?
<didrocks> lool: I can suscribe, it makes sense, or DBO, maybe <- njpatel ?
<njpatel> didrocks, canonical-dx-team for now, I think
<lool> I just would like someone to tend to it for the MIR
<lool> (I mean I'd like to be able to write that someone will care for it)
<njpatel> dbo is part-time, so not always around if something critical pops up
<njpatel> lool, does this need to be done in LP, or just let you know?
<didrocks> njpatel: can you do it for canonical-dx-team, so?
<lool> njpatel: Not sure what you mean?
<lool> njpatel: I can do it for you if you like
<njpatel> didrocks, where do I set it? In the wncksync project?
<lool> njpatel: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wncksync
<lool> => subscribe to bug mail
<didrocks> njpatel: yes
<lool> click the team
<lool> njpatel: No I'm speaking of the Ubuntu source package
<lool> Basically I want someone to care for Ubuntu bugs in the package
<didrocks> lool: the MIR is only for the ubuntu package subscribers? I was thinking we needed an upstream contact as well (from the MIR template)
<njpatel> didrocks, lool: thanks, done
<pitti> bah, this dell mini touchpad is an insult to humanity
<didrocks> pitti: +1
<seb128> lol
<seb128> those who have a mini, is bluetooth working for you?
<didrocks> seb128: I'm not using bluetooth, so, didn't test, sorry
<seb128> well, is the icon active in the notification area?
<seb128> or is it greyed
<seb128> no need to use it
<lool> pitti: Since wncksync seemed like a blocker for liblauncher, I picked up the MIR writing *and* review; see bug #512724; it's a relatively simple package, so I think it's ok, but feel free to take another look
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 512724 in wncksync "[MIR] wncksync" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512724
<pitti> seb128: didn't try yet, sorry
<lool> pitti: Otherwise, it's +1 from me, please promote when you're ok with it to unblock liblauncher
<pitti> lool: I agree; I sponsored it and hacked in it; I actually thought it would be in main already
<pitti> lool: thanks a lot
<seb128> pitti, next time you boot the boot can you just try to the icon?
<pitti> seb128: it's booted right now
<seb128> the boot -> the box
<seb128> pitti, can you look if the bluetooth icon is greyed or not?
<seb128> or open the preferences dialog
<pitti> seb128: it's greyed, yes
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks
<seb128> I guess it's a bug then
<pitti> but it says "BT on"/"Turn off BT"
<seb128> I was just trying to make sure it's not a local issue
<seb128> right, same here
<seb128> and the preference dialog has a turn on button
<seb128> which does nothing
<didrocks> seb128: same for me, greyed
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: thanks
<seb128> I just got myself a bluetooth mouse
<seb128> to avoid the mini touchpad
<seb128> that's a fail ;-)
 * pitti has an external usb one
<pitti> seb128: is it turned off in the bios perhaps?
<seb128> no
<seb128> I checked that
<pitti> on my laptop I also get this silly BT icon
<pitti> but there it says "BT: disabled"
<pitti> this should not appear in the first place..
<Hobbsee> asac: freenode itself is recommending the mode changes which force you to register before joining, afaik
<Hobbsee> asac: http://blog.freenode.net/2010/01/javascript-spam/ fwiw
<pitti> chrisccoulson: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/chrisccoulson/
<pitti> I did the before/after charts twice each, to see what's noise and what's change
<pitti> chrisccoulson: for some reason it increased boot time by .5 s :(
<seb128> the red line is buggy
<seb128> there is still busy processes after it
<pitti> ah, right
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks. so, it doesn't really make a great deal of difference. gsd still blocks waiting for gconf to finish
<pitti> sorry
<pitti> let's take the end of mutter as a reference
<pitti> the latency of the "apps" phase start didn't change apparently :(
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, all that's happened is gsd takes slightly longer now, because it is waiting for gconf to be ready
<pitti> chrisccoulson: g-s-d seems to start a little earlier, though
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that's expected, as gnome-session doesn't have to wait any more
<pitti> I don't see the effect of the gconfd change, though; it already loaded the xml right from the start before
<chrisccoulson> pitti - that was because applications queried for a value right away
<chrisccoulson> i see gconfd actually takes quite a while to start there for some reason
<chrisccoulson> it's only just starting when gsd starts
<pitti> chrisccoulson: at the time when g-session starts, we still have a free CPU for a second
<pitti> any chance we could squeeze it in there?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: anything else I should measure for you?
 * pitti aims his gun at the redundant pulseaudio startups and mutter calling gconftool
<pitti> Riddell: would you mind adding ttf-wqy-microhei to the Kubuntu seed only? in Ubuntu we now end up with having both -zenhei and -microhei
<pitti> Riddell: (I'm fine to do the change, just checking)
<Riddell> pitti: yeah that's fine
<pitti> Riddell: thanks; done
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm not sure gnome-session really starts where it appears to on that chart. i think that the start of gnome-session is actually where ssh-agent starts, based on what we discussed yesterday. gnome-session then spawns gconf-sanity-check-2 almost straight away,which should activate gconfd, but there appears to be a delay there
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right; I think it really starts at the first blue line in g-s-d
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it seems to. i wonder if the delay there is due to the dbus activation
<pitti> njpatel:
<pitti> Failed to fetch desktop file: Failed to execute program @LIBEXECDIR@/wncksyncdaemon: Success
<pitti> does that ring a bell?
<pitti> looks like some template doesn't get filled in during build or so?
<njpatel> pitti, yep, that's the other fix I mentioned
<pitti> njpatel: anyway, mutter plugin gets loaded 0.67 seconds after mutter starts; not too bad
<njpatel> sounds good
<didrocks> pitti: do I need to trigger something now that wnsync is in main? (https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/liblauncher/0.3.6-0ubuntu1/+build/1452358, no build button)
<pitti> didrocks: it should auto-retry once it's published
<pitti> didrocks: (it does have a "Retry this build" link, though)
<didrocks> pitti: I don't have it on that page. Should be permission thingâ¦
<pitti> ah, perhaps
<strycore> Hi
<strycore> I can't get the python bindings for libapplicator on Lucid
<seb128> hi
<seb128> why not?
<pitti> seb128: hm, moving away /etc/xdg/autostart/ is a 4 second difference here..
<strycore> I tried building the source from the launchpad page but there's still no module appindicator
<huats> hello everyone
<seb128> hi huats
<huats> hey seb128
<seb128> strycore, the binary is in lucid
<seb128> pitti, do you get gnome-settings-daemon to run?
<pitti> seb128: no, I don't
<strycore> oh sorry I was looking in the wrong place in didn't see the package in synaptic
<pitti> I was just curious
<seb128> pitti, I might have moved everything not being a base component
<pitti> since on that chart you have a better view what mutter/g-p are doing
<seb128> pitti, ie I let g-s-d gnome-keyring
<strycore> that should fix it :)
<pitti> seb128: that's actually a good thing; since it allows us to re-enable stuff individually, for better benchmarking
<seb128> pitti, how long does desktop take without the autostarts?
<pitti> seb128: little less than 5 s
<pitti> 4.4 s or so
<chrisccoulson> if you want a session without running anything from /etc/xd/autostart, then you can just use a failsafe session
<seb128> ok
<seb128> still not in target but almost
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right, but I want to reenable stuff selectively
<seb128> chrisccoulson, would work if that option was not buggy
<chrisccoulson> oh, it doesn't work?
<seb128> chrisccoulson was on it
<seb128> xorg was mangling any argument after space in the command
<seb128> and seahorse too
<seb128> no "gnome-session" was called the normal way
<seb128> no -> so
<seb128> we discussed it some days ago
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok
<pitti> chrisccoulson: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/chrisccoulson/stock-noautostart.png vs. http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/chrisccoulson/chris-noautostart.png
<pitti> chrisccoulson: there you see that your changes indeed improve the latency
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I guess with autostart the CPU is just full, so that it doesn't actually help
<pitti> but it seems to weaken the dependencies indeed
<chrisccoulson> pitti - the charts still seem to show a ~200ms delay starting gconfd. you can see that there is a delay after gconf-sanity-check2 finishing, and gconfd starting, which i assume is just related to dbus
<didrocks> seb128: did you have the time to take a look at gnome-doc-utils? (should be trivial)
<chrisccoulson> there might be a quicker way of doing tha
<seb128> didrocks, ups no I totally forgot
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, it looks like dbus is started some ms before that already
<seb128> didrocks, doing that now
<pitti> but of course it might need some time to settle
<didrocks> seb128: that's why I'm pinging you ;)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that's what i'm thinking
<chrisccoulson> pitti - perhaps if we just exec gconfd rather than activating it over dbus, then it might be quicker
<chrisccoulson> anyway, lunch time for me. bbl
<seb128> chrisccoulson, enjoy
<pitti> lunch, good idea! /me follows
 * seb128 is just back from lunch
<huats> does anyone remember where is set the default "distribution"  used in dch ? (I mean the one which is used when I simply type dch -i) ?
<pitti> huats: hardcoded in /usr/bin/debchange
<pitti>     if ($distributor eq 'Ubuntu') {
<pitti>         # In Ubuntu uploads should go to lucid
<pitti>         $DISTRIBUTION = 'lucid';
<huats> pitti, ok... I understand now...
<huats> pitti,  thanks !
<seb128> ls
<seb128> ups
<seb128> doing the totem-pl-parser update
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> ok
<seb128> didrocks, in fact not, starting on some bootspeed work instead for now since I'm a bit behind on that
<seb128> didrocks, feel free to do it if you want or I will have a look to that later
<didrocks> seb128: ok, trying to do totem and totem-pl-parser
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> and don't forget gvfs ;-)
<didrocks> I'm still on UNE related fixes, so, it can takes a while
<didrocks> gfvs is done :)
<seb128> (I'm curious to know if lazy init wins boot speed)
<seb128> excellent
<didrocks> of course, permission denied :/
<didrocks> grrr
<seb128> didrocks, the upload didn't make through?
<seb128> ok, what I though
<seb128> I will sponsor it for you
<didrocks> didrocks: pushed at ~ubuntu-desktop/gvfs/ubuntu
<didrocks> thanks
<seb128> didrocks, stop talking to yourself! ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, you should do a lunch break if you didn't btw
<didrocks> seb128: I still didn't, but I think tat those two days aren't good days for me :-)
<seb128> why not?
<didrocks> seb128: dunno, lot of interrupts, udw to prepare in parallel, stress, etc.
 * seb128 hugs didrocks
 * didrocks hugs seb128 back
<seb128> IRC is not always fun, you should put it on the side
<seb128> at least if you need to focus on something
<didrocks> yes, I think I'll follow your piece of advice
<pitti> seb128: yay, my g-c-c patch was accepted upstream
 * pitti pushes
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> pitti, just curious where did you get review?
<pitti> seb128: jens changed the patch status to "accepted-commit_now"
<seb128> pitti, there is only comments from you in bugzilla
<seb128> oh ok
<pitti> oh, indeed
<seb128> confusing ;-)
<pitti> I got the bug mail
<mclasen> hey, pitti
<pitti> yes, it ought to mention the status changes in the web ui, too
<mclasen> I ran into some trouble with your __abort_msg trick
<pitti> hey mclasen; sorry, was at Taekwondo last night, missed you
<pitti> mclasen: ugh, the new patch still fails?
<mclasen> well, it builds fine
<mclasen> but it adds a dep on GLIBC_PRIVATE to our glib rpm
<pitti> mclasen: right; I mean the new patch from this morning
<mclasen> which makes it uninstallable, since the glibc rpm doesn't provide that
<mclasen> because it is, well, private
<mclasen> oh, haven't seen a new patch
<mclasen> let me look
<mclasen> I just force-undef'ed your HAVE_ASSERT_MSG macro for now in the Fedora build
<pitti> mclasen: I sent two followups and a patch to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=594872
<mclasen> how does this work in Ubuntu, don
<ubottu> Gnome bug 594872 in general "Support storing assertion messages into core dump" [Enhancement,New]
<mclasen> t you check symbol version provides ?
<mclasen> or does your glibc not filter out GLIBC_PRIVATE ?
<pitti> mclasen: not all of our libraries use per-symbol version tracking
<pitti> in fact, that was only introduced a year or two ago
<pitti> most just use a thing called "shlibs versions" which needs to be bumped each time the library changes abi
<mclasen> ah, well, the patch looks like it will solve the issue, anyway. Can you commit that ?
<pitti> mclasen: sure, I can, if it gets blessed by you
<pitti> mclasen: I'm 90% sure that make distcheck will now work for you, too, but as I said in the bug I couldn't test it end to end
<pitti> "make check" works fine for me, but distcheck hangs in the pipe-io test
<seb128> pitti, btw did you drop that email on the devicekit list yesterday?
<pitti> seb128: I sent it to Richard, yes
<seb128> ok thanks
<pitti> oh, not on the list, though; I understood it as "send a mail to remind me"
<seb128> just checking since you are so busy ;-)
<pitti> but I can bounce it to the ML
<seb128> pitti, no I think that's fine, thanks
<seb128> brb, restarting my session to stop the pc speaker that drives me crazy to have it on each tab completion
<seb128> the current bootchart on my laptop is weird
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-laptop-lucid-20100126-3.png
<baptistemm> how often ureadhead do a re-profiling ?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti: have you seen similar issues? g-s-d is sitting there 2 seconds before starting work
<pitti> seb128: strange; then again, I didn't do a recent bootchart on my laptop
<pitti> seb128: do you  always get that? or is that new from today?
<pitti> oh, hang on
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/tick-lucid-20100122-2.png
<pitti> I get it, too
<pitti> seb128: I wonder if that's delay from xrandr, which reconfigures my screens?
<seb128> pitti, always
<pitti> I am using a dock, just like you (I think)
<seb128> pitti, could be...
<seb128> yes, that's my laptop docked
<pitti> and I have a .config/monitors.xml
<seb128> same here
<seb128> 2 seconds is a while!
<pitti> with nowadays' i915 fix I probably don't need that any more
<seb128> I will try laptop not docked without the config
<pitti> seb128: also, try docked without config
<seb128> right
 * seb128 deletes config, let's see at next reboot
<didrocks> seb128: totem-pl-parser has been synced from debian. Should I still use lp:~ubuntu-desktop/totem-pl-parser/ubuntu ? Ie: update it with last debian change in a commit and then, updating it?
<seb128> didrocks, yes
<didrocks> ok, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, thank you
<didrocks> y/w :)
<pitti> seb128, chrisccoulson: do you know what /usr/lib/gnome-session/helpers/gnome-settings-daemon-helper is?
<pitti> crimsun: do you know why we need /etc/xdg/autostart/pulseaudio.desktop, given that pulse is already triggered on demand anyway? removing it doesn't seem to cause any obvious effect (except for saving some cycles on login)
<seb128> pitti,
<seb128> pitti, see README in gnome-session/compat
<pitti> seb128: ah, thanks
<pitti> setting the screen res? I isn't that the xrandr plugin?
<seb128> pitti, the screen thing is deprecated
<seb128> pitti, see the .c file in the same dir
<seb128> it's trivial
<seb128> pitti, ie we can drop it
<pitti> indeed
<seb128> we don't ship gtk1.2 for some cycle
<pitti> gtk1 -> gone
<chrisccoulson> pitti / seb128 - yeah, i planned to drop that next time i did anything with gnome-session
<pitti> probably saves like 0.01 s :)
<seb128> pitti, want me to drop it?
<seb128> pitti, I was going to backport a git change to fix an issue with the capplet
<seb128> pitti, I can sneak that in the same upload
<pitti> seb128: if you are at g-s already, please do
<seb128> ok, will do
<pitti> seb128: unfortunately the preinst doesn't have the rm_conffile function yet, but that's easy to copy
<seb128> yes, I'm used to that one by now ;-)
 * pitti still trackign down what the heck calls gconftool-2
<seb128> pitti, gnome-at-visual?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - if you're doing a gnome-session upload, it might be worth also fixing bug 457104
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457104 in gnome-session "multiple at-spi-registryd files in autostart " [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457104
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ah thanks
<chrisccoulson> it's just a conffile cleanup
<pitti> seb128: no, that's gone already; I mean the one below mutter in http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/chrisccoulson/stock-noautostart.png
<seb128> pitti, the logic would say it's mutter calling it
<pitti> I eliminated autostart,  maximus, and ssh-agent
<seb128> pitti, or maximus
<pitti> seb128: right, but I grepped gnome-session and mutter for it, neither have a spawn
<pitti> or exec for gconftool
<seb128> pitti, so mutter, by following the dots going up on the chart
<pitti> anyway, I'll get it eventually
 * pitti disables mutter next
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it wouldn't surprise me if mutter does it
<chrisccoulson> i'm sure metacity does the same thing
<chrisccoulson> so it doesnt need to link libgconf
<chrisccoulson> i could be wrong though
<pitti> find -name '*.c' | xargs grep -i gconftool
<pitti> -> nothing
<chrisccoulson> hmm  :-/
 * pitti enjoys the goose chase
<seb128> pitti, if you don't limit to .c?
<seb128> pitti, could have some sort of wrapper there...
<pitti> already tried; just configure, Makefile.in, aclocal, that stuff
<pitti> it uses it in the build system
<seb128> ok
<pitti> oh, hang on
<pitti> I chmod'ed mutter
<pitti> and now UNE starts compiz
 * pitti eyes at /usr/bin/gnome-wm
<pitti> are we actually using that?
<seb128> pitti, look to gconf /desktop/gnome/session
<seb128> pitti, the wm is part of the required component
<seb128> we set gnome-wm on the desktop install
<seb128> not sure how une hijack that one
<pitti> aah
<didrocks> une force gnome-wm as mandatory (this is part of my recent fix)
<pitti> didrocks: can we just force mutter instead?
 * pitti tries
<didrocks> pitti: sure, do you want me to change that?
<pitti> didrocks: let me run a test and see what difference it makes
<didrocks> (that's what the capplet does in fact)
<didrocks> ok
<pitti> but this seems to block the entire thing
<pitti> and since it uses "exec", you don't see it on the chart
<seb128> pitti, well it calls gconftool so yes you get a gconf init hit there
<pitti> looks like a > 0.5 second latency
<didrocks> right, and it calls gconftool
<seb128> if it's not used before
<didrocks> seb128: too fast :)
 * pitti <- beware! on the hunt!
<seb128> pitti, if you change mutter you might want drop the session phase in the desktop entry
<seb128> pitti, I did it for gnome-wm but not for mutter so other things will wait for it to register to goon
<seb128> go on
<pitti> seb128: oh, I'll try that
<pitti> (I wasn't going to change mutter, just u-netbook-default-settings, but still good to know)
<seb128> pitti, just comment the mutter.desktop line
<pitti> didrocks: mutter isn't in any bzr yet, right?
<seb128> pitti, well, if you get a new delay it's due to that
<pitti> right, understood
<didrocks> pitti: let me check last change I've done
<pitti> meh
<pitti> still gconftool-2
<didrocks> pitti: no, no bzr branch
<pitti> looking at http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/chrisccoulson/stock-noautostart.png, I suspect that the majority of the empty start region in mutter is due to that
<seb128> pitti, "that"?
<pitti> gconftool -R / | grep gnome-wm -> nothing
<pitti> seb128: that == gnome-wm
<seb128> well move /usr/bin/gnome-wm away to be sure
<pitti> right, it hangs now
<pitti> so something is trying to run gnome-wm
<seb128> run gconftool -R /desktop/gnome/session?
<pitti> windowmanager = mutter
<seb128> pitti, and no .config/autostart?
<pitti> no; it's a fresh install
<pitti> didrocks: hm, it seems the u-n-d-s branch is out of date
<seb128> pitti, how did you edit the gconf key?
<pitti> didrocks: there's 0.7.2~ppa4, but lp:ubuntu/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings has 0.7.2 UNRELEASED
<pitti> seb128: sudo vi /usr/share/gconf/une/mandatory/20_une-gconf-mandatory
<pitti> seb128: and then run the postinst, to get update-gconf-defaults
<seb128> pitti, did you run the update-gconf-defauls?
<pitti> yep
<didrocks> pitti: right, it's only on the ppa now, but the branch should be uptodate with the changes, let me check
<seb128> ok, dunno then
<pitti> didrocks: debian/20_une-gconf-mandatory doesn't have the gnome-wm windowmanager setting at all
<didrocks> pitti: grrr, maybe forgot to push, one sec
<didrocks> pitti: should be ok
<didrocks> (now)
<pitti> didrocks: ah, thanks
<didrocks> sorry to have forgotten
<pitti> ooh
<pitti> /etc/xdg/gnome-session/components
<pitti> -> windowmanager=gnome-wm
<pitti> what is that, gconf through the backdoor?
<pitti> it seems that this shadows gconf?
<pitti> it's from gnome-session-bin
<pitti> yay
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thats because you're running my package
<pitti> seb128: you are right wrt. the session phase, now everything else is half a second later than mutter
<pitti> chrisccoulson: actually I downgraded; perhaps I forgot gnome-session-bin
<pitti> ah, indeed
<chrisccoulson> my gnome-session patch ignores the gconf values and uses the values in /etc/xdg/gnome-session/components instead
<seb128> that explains
<pitti> chrisccoulson: is that originally read from gconf then? I. e. I just forgot to run another postinst?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - there's no gconf involved at all with my change. i manually created the file, and it's shipped with the package
<pitti> ah, I see
<pitti> chrisccoulson: so we'd need a trick for that for gnome (with gnome-wm) vs. netbook (with mutter hardcoded)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, if we went with this change, i'd need to figure out a way of specifying different required components for each session
<chrisccoulson> perhaps using something like components-gnome or components-une
<chrisccoulson> /s/or/and
<pitti> chrisccoulson: we already have /etc/xdg/xdg-une
<pitti> chrisccoulson: for /autostart and /menus
<pitti> didrocks: I think we should get mutter into bzr then, too; objections?
<didrocks> pitti: no objection
<pitti> didrocks: mind doing another u-n-d-s upload to the PPA? seems I lost my privs for that
<didrocks> pitti: no pb, all in trunk?
<chrisccoulson> i'm wondering what value gconf-sanity-check-2 really adds
<pitti> didrocks: just pushed
<didrocks> seb128: how do you test totem-pl-parser, btw? (there is soname bump from 12 to â¦ 17!!!)
<chrisccoulson> that's like 200ms
<seb128> didrocks, do the totem update and try to use the playlist
<didrocks> seb128: ok fine. Can I push then the branch for just so you have a quick look (not sure of what I've done because of the soname bump)
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100126-noautostart.png
<pitti> check this out ^ :)
<seb128> didrocks, sure
<seb128> pitti, nice!
<seb128> down to 5 seconds
<pitti> well, no g-s-d, no nm-applet
<pitti> but like that it's by and large a njpatel problem :)
<seb128> right, it's missing quite a lot
<pitti> yeah, it's pretty much the lower border of where we can get to
<seb128> do you still get a background image?
<seb128> I guess not
 * pitti bzrifies mutter and commits the autostart phase change
<pitti> seb128: no; no g-s-d :)
<seb128> I was wondering if we would get the gdm one or nothing
<seb128> I guess it's nothing...
<pitti> there is no gdm
<pitti> it's autostart
<pitti> oh, hang on
<pitti> I do have a bg image
<pitti> weird
<pitti> from nautilus?
<seb128> nautilus should not to it if you don't tick the draw desktop option
<seb128> and the nautilus busy bar doesn't show an activity matching a bg load
<pitti> something in that bootchart must do it
<seb128> ie it would almost be a 1 second job
<njpatel> the plugin will grab the bg too, though through async read from disk
<seb128> could it be mutter doing it?
<pitti> njpatel: aah
<pitti> njpatel: any particular reason? gnome-settings-daemon will already take care of it
<njpatel> pitti, so, looking at that chart, the plugin would work nicer if it did everything in one go, right? No idles?
<njpatel> pitti, we need to use it internally for some rendering, however I'm sure we can work around that or with the g-s-d window
<pitti> njpatel: I guess some bits still need to go into idle, as soon as you do tray management (since the indicator bits just take ages to start
<pitti> njpatel: alternatively we could tell g-s-d to not set a background in UNE (I guess that shouldn't be hard)
<njpatel> pitti, tray management is already in idle (and would be as it uses X sync), indicators are currently in idle (the reading from disk), we'll see how that plays out
<njpatel> pitti, no, we need it to at the moment -- let's do those types of tweaks nearer A3
<pitti> njpatel: ack
<njpatel> pitti, btw, new release of wncksync rolled with your branch + service file fix (thanks to DBO), didrcoks has been notified, so should land when he has some spare cycles
<pitti> yay
<njpatel> pitti, thanks again for your work, can't wait to have it running here :D
<pitti> njpatel: I wonder where that went in the first place; can't see it on http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100126-noautostart.png
<njpatel> pitti, service file was broken so never got started?
<njpatel> plugin won't assert on that, but won't have extra features
<pitti> right, it's not running
<pitti> the .service is there, though
<njpatel> yep, but cat the service, the Exec path is broken
<pitti> ah, heh
<pitti> @LIBEXECDIR@ again
<pitti> njpatel: right, that again was "the" other fix, right?
<njpatel> yep
<pitti> didrocks: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/mutter/ubuntu/
<pitti> didrocks: I'll add Vcs-Bzr:, my change, and upload
<didrocks> pitti: perfect ;)
<chrisccoulson> pedro_ - i see we keep getting a lot of crashes like bug 512173 and various other crashes in gnome-screensaver-gl-helper recently
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 512173 in gnome-screensaver "gnome-screensaver-gl-helper crashed with SIGSEGV in _fini()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512173
<chrisccoulson> i think we should just reassign them all to the nvidia driver
<chrisccoulson> all these reports are from users with the nvidia proprietary driver, and all the crashes happen inside of nvidia's libGL
<pedro_> chrisccoulson, yeah seems to happen on libGL code
<pedro_> right
<seb128> we should try to get those automatically reassigned
<seb128> or blocked to be sent
<pitti> I recently added sth. for that
<pitti> /usr/share/apport/general-hooks/generic.py
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i wonder how we can do that. they all seem to be slightlty different crashes, but all crash inside libGL
<pitti> line 52 ff
<pitti>     # filter out crashes on missing GLX (LP#327673)
<pitti>     if '/usr/lib/libGL.so' in report.get('StacktraceTop', '\n').splitlines()[0] \
<pitti>         and 'Loading extension GLX' not in apport.hookutils.read_file('/var/log/Xorg.0.log'):
<pitti>             report['UnreportableReason'] = 'The X.org server does not support the GLX extension, which the crashed program expected to use.'
<seb128> pitti fixing issues before having those reported as usual
<pitti> but I don't know whether it catches your case
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i don't think it does
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, I would say crash is in libGL.so and nvidia is listed as driver
<chrisccoulson> i think GLX is supported, but we seem to be getting lots of different crashes
<pitti> chrisccoulson: sure, i added that for an entirely different bug; just saying that somethign like this could go into an apport hook
<pitti> like "proprietary! bah! don't bug us!
<seb128> what pitti wrote + driver = nvidia
<seb128> rather than the xorg log
<chrisccoulson> eg, bug 508531 is another different crash, but appears to happen in an atexit() handler registered by libGL
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 508531 in gnome-screensaver "gnome-screensaver-gl-helper crashed with SIGSEGV in exit()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/508531
<pitti> seb128: xorg log also gives you the driver (in fact, nothing else does reliably)
<seb128> pitti, well we already have an apport key with the driver
<pitti> true
<pitti> much easier
<seb128> it's easier to use that than do parsing again
<seb128> right
<pitti> apport speed is for next cycle, though! :-)
<seb128> lol
<chrisccoulson> pitti - can we just blacklist gnome-screensaver-gl-helper entirely in apport? it doesn't seem to do anything particularly important really, it crashes several times per day on my machine (nvidia), and i've never noticed anything go wrong with the screensaver
 * pitti grabs the retroactive bug fixing time machine
<pitti> chrisccoulson: /etc/apport/blacklist.d/README.blacklist :)
<seb128> didrocks, new totem btw
<didrocks> seb128: 2.29.4?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> brb session restart
<didrocks> seb128: totem seems to work well, and playlist doesn't go to hell (even, it seems to work) :)
<didrocks> seb128: I'm just not quite confident about the soname bump, can you do a quick review, please?
<didrocks> pushed at ~ubuntu-desktop/totem-pl-parser/ubuntu
 * kenvandine grumbles about not getting joined automatically when restarting the irc proxy :/
<pitti> seb128, chrisccoulson: wow, bg image loading in g-s-d takes some 80% of g-s-d's CPU time
<rickspencer3> empathy calls for the win!
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, good morning
<pitti> empathy++
<rickspencer3> hiya pitti
<pitti> tseliot: with the new wacom driver now being in lucid, any chance that you can give that a try? perhaps also something for the sprint next week?
<seb128> sounds + video working this week
<tseliot> pitti: sure, I can try it. What about the sprint?
<pitti> tseliot: oh, I was wondering whether you prefer doing that at the sprint; would be a good time to track down problems with wacom
<tseliot> pitti: I don't know if I can carry it (as I'm travelling only with hand baggage) but I think I can test it here
<pitti> tseliot: as long as it works, it's fine :)
<tseliot> ok
<pitti> tseliot: if not, please let me know, and I'll ask around for someone to bring one
<tseliot> pitti: sure
<seb128> asac, btw, I think to remember the nm-applet animation cpu use was discussed before, what happened to that?
<asac> seb128: we wanted to go to a less animated icon ... basically waiting for a proposal from design team (either ours or redhat)
<seb128> ok, so got stalled
<seb128> asac, currently nm-applet takes cpu for over 1 second on login
<seb128> though I'm not sure if that's the animation
<seb128> or the menu building
<seb128> I think pitti said it's not connecting to anything for him and he still get the cpu use
<pitti> well, it gets stuck asking for my keyring password
<pitti> it tries to autoconnect to my wpa2
<pitti> and then needs the key
<asac> seb128: we probably should look at that during sprint if we find time
<asac> feels odd that just animation would consume so much
<seb128> it might be the fancy menu building
<seb128> though I've only one ap here
<seb128> should take that much for one item
<mclasen> seb128: it takes a whole lot of animation to keep a cpu busy for 1 second...
<seb128> mclasen, the cpu there is an atom one so not so much but still quite a guess
<seb128> mclasen, it takes almost 1 second to display the background image too on this box
<mclasen> seb128: if it was a fullscreen animation, maybe...but 24x24 ?!
<seb128> right, it's probably something else
<seb128> I just asked because I know was discussed some time ago
<rickspencer3> team meeting in 5 minutes
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-01-26
<rickspencer3> ^notice the correct year!
<chrisccoulson> it's 2010 already?
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<jcastro> pitti: are there some design-type changes to apport-gtk's use of an icon in the tray for lucid? I notice it's not on the list of apps to port to app indicators
<jcastro> pitti: whoops, I'll wait until after the meeting
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, bryyce, ccheney, didrocks, kenvandine, pitti, Riddell, seb128, tkamppeter, tseliot - meeting time
<ArneGoetje> hi
<rickspencer3> I think I got everyone
<tkamppeter> hi
<seb128> rickspencer3, hey
<pitti> re (just in time)
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3
 * kenvandine waves
<Riddell> hello
 * tseliot waves
<rickspencer3> kewl
<rickspencer3> so ...
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-01-26
<pitti> jcastro: I think it just didn't get to their attention yet
<rickspencer3> let us rock
<pitti> jcastro: it's disabled in stables, so not that important
<tseliot> :-)
<rickspencer3> hmmm, I forgot to do actions from last week
<ccheney> hi
<rickspencer3> so, I got lots of emails about conference attendance
<rickspencer3> thanks for that
<rickspencer3> also, a few folks have followed up with getting their objectives in
<rickspencer3> please do this today if you haven't already
<rickspencer3> we'll call those the "previous actions"
<rickspencer3> partner update?
 * rickspencer3 hands mic to kenvandine
<kenvandine> yo
<kenvandine> not much new to report on OLS
<kenvandine> still chugging away on the rb plugin and music store
<kenvandine> it is now kind of usable if you know the right magic ENV variable to set
<bryyce> heya
<rickspencer3> looks like they are expecting it to land for a3!
<kenvandine> coming along nicely
<rickspencer3> that's great news
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> still can't download :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, will it download in time for a3?
<kenvandine> that is the plan
<kenvandine> they have also been working on the new file sync client as well as adding gtk widgets for the contact picker
<kenvandine> both i think should be ready for a3
<kenvandine> DX is working on the MeMenu now
<rickspencer3> that's quite a relief
<kenvandine> plan is to have that working with gwibber by end of sprint
<rickspencer3> good
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, new gwibber UI is looking good
<kenvandine> that's if for partner update
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, thx
<rickspencer3> and gwibber service has not crashed or hung for me
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i fixed the facebook bug :)
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, also note the memory usage
<kenvandine> is way down
<rickspencer3> I am very very happy to see this feature set moving along
<kenvandine> the daemon is using 27M for me right now, after running for 4 hours
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> let's jfdi next week
<kenvandine> 6M of which is python-indicate :/
 * rickspencer3 will lock kenvandine and tedg into a room until it is done
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> i'll get him to rename indicators :)
<kenvandine> anyway, /me passes mic back
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, are you and didrocks working together on weekly releases?
 * rickspencer3 asks blatantly leading question
<kenvandine> not as well as we should, but we will more this week :)
<kenvandine> my fault
<didrocks> rickspencer3: not yet, let's wait for next release on Thursday, I guess :)
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
<kenvandine> didrocks, sorry... i was very distracted by sfts :)
<rickspencer3> again, good progress
<didrocks> kenvandine: no pb ;)
<rickspencer3> next Riddell Kubuntu update?
<Riddell> Kubuntu:
<Riddell> - 4.3.95 now in
<Riddell> - 4.3.5 going into backports today
<Riddell> - New SIP and python-qt4 building now
<Riddell> - MIRs now in for KOffice: plotutils, opengtl, libspnav, getfem++, pstoedit, libqtgtl
<Riddell> which should keep our MIR team busy
<pitti> \o/
<rickspencer3> Riddell, thanks
 * pitti opens a task to fan out unassigned MIRs
<rickspencer3> next?
<rickspencer3> ccheney, Mozilla update?
<rickspencer3> hmmmm
<rickspencer3> bryyce, xorg?
<ccheney> libsoup is still causing me much grief, i thought i had it almost finished then noticed it was miscompiling due to duplicate symbol use in the source files i had copied from, split them up to make it work cleanly, then noticed it failed to build due to collisions with the real glib
<ccheney> working with asac on determining a way to get around that problem
<ccheney> just ran into those two issues yesterday
<ccheney> OOo is blocked on doko who appears to be on vacation
<rickspencer3> so *still* not done libsoup?
<ccheney> he fixed a few arm issues and then from what it appears forgot to commit them anywhere or email them to me
<rickspencer3> this has been dangling quite a while
<ccheney> rickspencer3: yes, it is turning out to be much more involved than i had originally thought
<ccheney> we started out with just copying the bits needed into a single source file, but that only worked to about 90% of the way
<ccheney> after that copying the bits needed for the last 10% caused problems with symbol collision so had to recreate them into separate source files, which turned out to still not be enough
<rickspencer3> ccheney, perhaps someone else can provide some assistance with getting the other 90% there?
<ccheney> yes, hopefully so
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> moving on
<rickspencer3> bryyce, ?
<rickspencer3> xorg?
<bryyce> - Finally have a shiny new udev-enabled wacom driver, which I think marks the end of our HAL needs
<bryyce> - Still planning to do -intel 2.10 but blocked by a bug.  Fallback plan is to stay on 2.9.
<bryyce> - Still working on getting wayland built; lots of little dependency issues to work through.  Hoping to have it packaged by the sprint.
<bryyce> - This past week updated apport hooks and failsafe stuff
<ccheney> the main issue i am having now is with symbols that are provided in gio.h that get included in places but also need to be in the parts i am copying over, not sure if it is safe to just include gio.h everywhere
 * ccheney shuts up for now :)(
<pitti> oh, do we need wayland for anything, or is it just to have the platform for playing around with?
<pitti> bryyce: I asked tseliot to test wacom; knocking on wood! :-)
 * tseliot nods
<bryyce> - Planning a few more driver package updates (-ati, -nouveau, -intel, etc.) but otherwise most of the packaging work for X is in place now
<bryyce> pitti, just for playing with
<pitti> any new word from kernel about nouveao?
<pitti> nouveau
<bryyce> I think I got asked about it every day at UDS, so figure it's good to have available
<rickspencer3> new-voh
<davmor2> pitti: jockey is doing it's trick of only showing binary hw in live cd and not on the installed system again
<bryyce> yes, I got a new nouveau-enabled kernel from apw yesterday
<bryyce> haven't had a chance to test it out myself but it's also on my todo list for this week
<rickspencer3> bryyce, so is it a "go"? regarding new-voh
<rickspencer3> ?
<bryyce> we will be evaluating our situation with nouveau next week, and establishing our plans going forward
<pitti> bryyce: sounds like a good thing for the lucid sprint todo (having lots of hw)
<pitti> a modified live usb stick should be great
<tseliot> rickspencer3: are you asking questions in rhyme?
<tseliot> :-P
<rickspencer3> bryyce, is there a single person who considered themselves on the hook for this project?
<pitti> davmor2: apt-get update?
<bryyce> pitti, maybe but I've found 90+% of the distro team has -intel hardware ;-)
 * rickspencer3 is a bit concerned that diffuse responsibility may lead to sub-optimal results and/or lots of extra work
<pitti> davmor2: (but yes, known issue)
<pitti> bryyce: we'll find some hotel computers :)
<bryyce> pitti, fortunately I've got several nvidia cards so probably have more hardware myself than would be at the sprint ;-)
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> moving on?
<rickspencer3> pitti, any words regarding release status?
<bjf> bryyce, I have nVidia in all my HW, I can help test, was working with apw
<bryyce> bjf
<bryyce> bjf, ok
<pitti> so, I updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus last week
<pitti> primarily for fishing out the lucid-targetted bugs which are "our's"
<pitti> executive summary, nothing that's concerning yet at this stage of the release
<rickspencer3> I see that the focus on start time has added quite a few work items
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-alpha-3.html gets a bit over the trend, though
<rickspencer3> that's good to see
<pitti> some is my fault, since I keep adding startup speed TODO items
<rickspencer3> shows concerted effort and good planning
<pitti> but fortunately 80% of them are done already
<pitti> but many specs look a bit stalled
<rickspencer3> we are actually below the trend line if you don't include "foreign" items
<rickspencer3> pitti, which specs concern you?
<pitti> rickspencer3: not really; if you start the trend line at the "our's", we're over as well
<pitti> rickspencer3: none in particular, just the sum :)
<rickspencer3> oh, right
<rickspencer3> :/
<rickspencer3> ok
 * rickspencer3 whip cracking noises
<pitti> I have some questions for particular specs, but no need to do them in the meeting
<rickspencer3> ok
<pitti> just as a teaser
<pitti> check out http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100126-noautostart.png
<pitti> it's UNE stripped to the bare minimum
<rickspencer3> and it's at 17+?
<seb128> note that there is a 5 seconds extra time to boot due to a bug there
<pitti> 4.2 seconds for desktop
<seb128> pitti, 4.8 rather
<pitti> that chart, with kernel 2.6.32-9 would be 12.37 seconds
<seb128> pitti, we should count from gdm not from the vertical session start
<pitti> seb128: ok
<rickspencer3> so we are currently 2.37 over?
<rickspencer3> in total?
<seb128> rickspencer3, when we don't run g-s-d
<pitti> rickspencer3: well, wait
<pitti> this is missing half of the stuff
<seb128> ie no theme, no font, no mixer, no bluetooth
<pitti> I just wanted to say, something like this is the goal
<pitti> and no network-manager applet either :)
<rickspencer3> alright
<pitti> we still expect some great speedups in mutter plugin
<pitti> which we can then trade for the stuff that needs to be put back (settings-daemon, nm-applet, etc.)
<pitti> 4 seconds will be damn hard
<rickspencer3> mmm
<pitti> but 5 to 6 seems doable
<seb128> the platform part is still not on target there
<rickspencer3> it may be hard, but it doesn't mean it's not worth doing
<pitti> right; ignore everything before gdm
<seb128> they might still win 1 or 2 seconds too
<pitti> -10 and -11 kernels regressed a lot, too
<seb128> rickspencer3, worth doing... yeah, but at which cost?
<rickspencer3> they'll get that back
<ccheney> i saw at some point kernel boot time doubled
<pitti> chrisccoulson: that was -10
<rickspencer3> the kernel team will take care of the kernel
<ccheney> pitti: ok
<rickspencer3> we have our own house to worry about
<pitti> and -11 introduced some weird 5 second latency in usb_id/khubd
<pitti> ok, I'm done; just wanted to give an overview where we are
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100125-oldkernel.png is a pretty realistic one
<pitti> you can substract some 0.8 seconds from that for today's optimizations
<rickspencer3> thanks pitti
<rickspencer3> yeah!
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> seb128, asks "at what cost?"
<rickspencer3> well, we are committed to a course of action ... and we must meet that commitment
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<seb128> sprint?
<rickspencer3> (well, technically, we are committed to a result, not an action, but still ...)
<seb128> do we have to prepare anything for it?
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> did everyone see pitti's email regarding sprint planning?
<rickspencer3> get items on the list
<seb128> I did
<seb128> ok
<rickspencer3> I feel that we have gotten quite good at working efficiently at the sprints
<rickspencer3> are there any specific questions or concerns about the sprint?
<pitti> bryyce: settled the Karaoke night?
<bryyce> pitti, yup
<pitti> \o/
<kenvandine> woot
<kenvandine> :)
<pitti> SFTS IRL!
<kenvandine> :)
<Tm_T> pitti: what's the time with Karmic in same hardware?
<pitti> Tm_T: unsure; I only have had that machine for a week, no karmic on it
<pitti> Tm_T: but desktop part with GNOME was 14 s
<pitti> I think we just about halved that by now
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<Tm_T> pitti: roger
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/BootPerformance/Lucid/Desktop
<pitti> it has a karmic chart
<seb128> note that current charts are une
<rickspencer3> ok, call it a wrap?
<seb128> and that one is desktop
<seb128> rickspencer3, yes
 * rickspencer3 taps gavel
<rickspencer3> thanks all!
<pitti> thanks everyone, see you next week!
 * kenvandine goes back to sfts
<kenvandine> :)
<ccheney> seb128: so 10s target is only for une not desktop?
<didrocks> thanks :)
<bryyce> thanks
<pitti> crimsun: ah, so it seems that start-pulseaudio-x11 doesn't just launch (again) the daemon, but also loads three modules through pactl; do you think it would be evil to just add those three modules to /etc/pulse/default.pa instead and thus save the entire thing?
<pitti> ccheney: yes, it got changed; with gnome (nautilus/compiz) it's just about impossible
<pitti> crimsun: I'll do a chart comparison
<ccheney> pitti: ok
<davmor2> pitti: just to confirm update fixed jockey
<pitti> davmor2: thanks; it's a long-standing design problem in how the CD is installed (i. e. you don't have pacakge info right after install)
<jcastro> pitti: oh I didn't know it was off by default in stable releases, that takes care of things then, thanks for the info
<kwwii> seb128, anyone: is it possible to turn off the tooltips for metacity?
<seb128> dunno
<seb128> I guess everything is possible it's only code
<kwwii> seb128: I thought there might be a switch somewhere to turn them off
<seb128> it might but I've no clue
<kwwii> ok, thanks ;)
<seb128> I've not been touching that one or using for years
<hyperair> pitti: i'd like to submit a patch to devicekit-power from debian. am i allowed to use (LP: ) tags?
<hyperair> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/363354/
<chrisccoulson> hey hyperair - how are you getting on with that suspend issue? (sorry, i've not watched all my bug mail yet today)
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/363354/
<chrisccoulson> that fixes it?
<hyperair> part of it
<chrisccoulson> cool
<hyperair> the console_kit fix i still have to submit upstream
<hyperair> to gpm
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> i'm just working on a separate gpm change at the moment
<hyperair> np
<hyperair> i see
<chrisccoulson> to make suspend inhibit work again
<hyperair> ah in that case you'll be making another upload, right?
<hyperair> i'll give you the patch separately
<chrisccoulson> i'll probably commit it to upstream git first
<chrisccoulson> (once hughsie has reviewed it)
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/363365/ right
<dpm> tedg, is the "Getting your application in the panel" session yours?
<tedg> dpm: Yes
<dpm> tedg, ah, sorted, thanks :)
<pitti> hyperair: sure, they are valid in debian changelogs, too
<hyperair> pitti: well, some debian developers might get annoyed.
<pitti> hyperair: *shrug* having references to bugs is a good thing
<hyperair> pitti: i agree.
<pitti> regardless of whether it's in the debian BTS, launchpad, gnome or fd.o bugzilla or some trac
<pitti> hyperair: besides, I know one of Debian's dk-p maintainers pretty well, and the other very very well :-P
<hyperair> pitti: anyway, the patch is included in http://bugs.debian.org/567021, and the paste i gave you.
<hyperair> pitti: that's great :-)
<pitti> hyperair: ah, nice, thanks!
<pitti> I'll commit it in a bit
<hyperair> pitti: thanks. =)
<hyperair> pitti: it'd be nice if we can get that uploaded and synced soon, as it blocks the SRU (unless we can make an exception to the rule where ubuntu+1 must have the bug fixed first)
<pitti> hyperair: don't  block on lucid for that, please just get it uploaded
<pitti> hyperair: it ought to be in lucid before it goes to -updates
<hyperair> pitti: okay.
<hyperair> okay then
<bjf> bryyce, Are you interested in any additional nouveou testing at this time?
<bjf> s/nouveou/nouveau/
<pitti> hyperair: I committed the patch; mbiebl wants to test it with a related problem, I'll upload it tomorrow or later tonight
<hyperair> pitti: sure.
<hyperair> pitti: out of curiosity, what related problem would this be?
<pitti> hyperair: some double-suspend related to uswsusp, related to console switching
<pitti> but I didn't read the details
<hyperair> pitti: ah i see. okay.
<pitti> hyperair: are both of your gpm patches in upstream trunk now?
<hyperair> no.
<hyperair> pitti: i'm waiting for hughsie to reappear
<pitti> oh, ok
<hyperair> pitti: er there's only one patch, by the way.
<hyperair> for gpm that is
<pitti> hyperair: the other is already upstream, isn't it? I saw the commit fly by
<hyperair> ah right.
<hyperair> yes
<pitti> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=604362
<ubottu> Gnome bug 604362 in general "GPM suspends twice on lid close" [Minor,Resolved: fixed]
<hyperair> pitti: two commits.
<hyperair> the first one was a hack
<hyperair> the second one was a more proper fix
<hyperair> but the second one needs the dkp patch.
<pitti> right
<hyperair> there's a third one, which needs to fix a console kit issue.
<hyperair> ah yes.
<hyperair> console switching
<pitti> hyperair: where's the third one?
<hyperair> pitti: waiting for hughsie to reappear.
<pitti> hyperair: ah, so there's no patch yet? mbiebl wanted to test it
<hyperair> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/363401/
<hyperair> pitti: is he on irc somewhere? perhaps i should join the discussion
<pitti> hyperair: mbiebl on freenode
<pitti> hyperair: #udev
<pitti> good night everyone
<bryyce> bjf, not yet; I am testing on my own hardware presently.  I'm planning on having a test recipe drawn up within a day or two for others to follow.
<bjf> bryyce, cool, exactly what I was hoping for
<didrocks> seb128: hum, as wncksync is now in main, I have no more upload right. Can you please take lp:~didrocks/wncksync/packaging, push it to lp:ubuntu/wncksync and upload it for me, please?
<didrocks> well, let's do gcalctool update just for having fun before going to bed :)
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<bryyce> rickspencer3, http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzkyNg
<didrocks> bryyce: some people are really quick :)
<seb128_> re
<chrisccoulson> bah, maybe i hate gobject after all
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128_
<seb128_> lol
<seb128_> hey robert_ancell, you did it!
<seb128_> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128_> chrisccoulson, how are you? out of hating gobject?
<robert_ancell> seb128_, had to know the secret handshake
<chrisccoulson> seb128_ - yeah, good thanks
<chrisccoulson> and you?
<seb128_> good too
<seb128_> out of firefox refusing to start
<seb128_> well not really true, it does after running it in -safe-mode once
<seb128_> and it does run only once, after than it returns when ran
<chrisccoulson> when did that break? i've not tried running it on lucid tonight
<seb128_> 15 minutes ago
<seb128_> I didn't upgrade my laptop before today though
<seb128_> that's the firefox 3.5 to 3.6 upgrade
<seb128_> and asac is hiding from this channel apparently now ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<rickspencer3> hmm
<seb128_> so session start takes 4.5 seconds on my laptop now
<rickspencer3> I did a dist-upgrade today, and firefox 3.6 seems to be running quite well
<rickspencer3> seb128_, wow!
<seb128_> rickspencer3, lucky you
<seb128_> rickspencer3, "laptop", ie my dell d630, not the mini
<rickspencer3> ah
<seb128_> shame the boot target doesn't have a decent cpu
<seb128_> that laptop is 2.5 years old
<rickspencer3> yup
<seb128_> and it does so much better than an atom
<seb128_> and that's an hdd
<seb128_> not a ssd
<seb128_> chrisccoulson, so xrandr is what was delay g-s-d by 2 seconds
<seb128_> deleting the monitor.xml didn't drop that
<seb128_> I had to disable the gconf key for xrandr
<chrisccoulson> seb128_ - 2 seconds is a long time
<seb128_> it is
<chrisccoulson> is this with an external monitor?
<seb128_> pitti has a similar delay on his d430
<seb128_> no
<seb128_> dock station or standalone doesn't make a difference
<seb128_> xorg seems to be busy during this time
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i suspect the delay is the call to XRRGetScreenResources
<seb128_> is that needed to get the magic xrandr key working?
<seb128_> could we do that the first time it's used?
<seb128_> 2 seconds is quite some delay but it would probably be ok
<seb128_> I mean you do it, think for a second and it's acting
<bryyce> I thought the kernel was supposed to be caching that now?
<RAOF> Doesn't the xrandr plugin also handle the per-user resolution settings?
<seb128_> bryyce, hey
<seb128_> bryyce, caching between boots?
<bryyce> maybe it only caches the EDID and xrandr needs additional info
<bryyce> seb128_, yeah I thought so.  that was one of the first moblin patches we flagged as interesting.  pretty sure it's in the kernel.
<bryyce> I don't actually know offhand what all XRRGetScreenResources pulls
<seb128_> bryyce, do you know if anything is suposed to probe screen settings on resume too?
<RAOF> There's certainly a patch which caches the EDID for lvds in the kernel.
<seb128_> bryyce, I often have the issue "suspend while docked and open you laptop later while not"
<seb128_> bryyce, which gives a "no screen on"
 * chrisccoulson needs to start looking around in the gnome-desktop source again
<seb128_> I've to type my password and do the xrand magic key without scrfeen
<seb128_> screen
<seb128_> then g-s-d crashes
<seb128_> but I get a screen back
<bryyce> seb128_, yeah I don't think there's a trigger sent when resuming that could make it re-probe
<seb128_> do you should there should be one?
<seb128_> do you *think*
<seb128_> I'm not sure if that's something xorg should be handling
<seb128_> or g-s-d
<seb128_> or...
<bryyce> yeah, although I would worry it could cause side effects depending on how it was implemented
<bryyce> well one thing I know of
<bryyce> X upstream is working on making monitor plugging/unplugging send events
<bryyce> we won't have that for lucid though; maybe MM for -intel at least
<bryyce> with that in place it should make a lot of this stuff much easier
<bryyce> (famous last words I know)
<seb128_> yeah, I've read federico mentioning autoactivating new monitors when they are plugged
<seb128_> or at least triggering an event which opens a dialog asking if you want to do that
<bryyce> anyway, I think that if the kernel can emit a 'resume' signal of some sort, then having g-s-d listen and act on that would give us the best results currently
<seb128_> ok thanks
<chrisccoulson> bryyce - so, xorg does not actually send a RRScreenChangeNotify when you hotplug a monitor right now?
<chrisccoulson> because g-s-d already listens for that
<RAOF> I'm fairly sure that nouveau sends that; my nvidia laptop sets up the external display when I plug it in.
<seb128_> I need to try that later
<seb128_> the issue there is on resume though
<rickspencer3> desktoppers ...
<bryyce> it's a new kms-dependent thing, so maybe it's there for -nouveau since they've done a lot of kms work
<rickspencer3> well, this whole rickspencer3 sold Ubuntu to Yahoo! thing is taking a bit of my time ;)
<chrisccoulson> seb128_ - the easiest way there is to run gsd through xtrace and see if you can see the event
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, said it was ok to postpone the Eastern Edition to tomorrow so I can answer a few questions and such
<seb128_> rickspencer3, no real action on mailing lists for now
<chrisccoulson> although, when i get my new laptop and monitor, i can do some debugging on these gsd crashes anyway
<seb128_> rickspencer3, is there any other media to watch there? ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128_, identica, blogs, etc...
<rickspencer3> plus some questions directly on IRC
<seb128_> things I usually do in firefox
<seb128_> when it starts!
<rickspencer3> lol
<seb128_> where is asac? ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128_, so firefox is just busted for you?
<seb128_> yes
<seb128_> it exit as soon as started without error
<seb128_> seems pitti had the same issue today
<rickspencer3> huh
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, I can't reply with Gwibber!!
<rickspencer3> baaaaad timing
 * rickspencer3 is glad that firefox is working 
<jcastro> you fell for the trap where ken asks you to test gwibber and you're stuck with a broken window for months. :p
<asac> seb128_: here i am ... guess until tomorrow when i get a new IP :-P
<seb128_> hey asac!
<asac> seb128_: i think we need an strace -f -eopen firefox for the run after -safe-mode ... and the second run (that fails)
<seb128_> asac, that shows not difference
<seb128_> open("/etc/ld.so.cache", O_RDONLY)      = 3
<seb128_> open("/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6", O_RDONLY) = 3
<seb128_> open("/usr/lib/firefox-3.6/firefox", O_RDONLY) = 3
<seb128_> then 3 SIGCHLD
<asac> seb128_: that means you have a firefox window open
<asac> otherwise that would be really long
<asac> at least the run that work should be really much output
<seb128_> $ ps ax | grep firefox
<seb128_>  4036 pts/0    S+     0:00 grep firefox
<seb128_> $
<asac> ok ... then get me a strace -f -eopen firefox -safe-mode .... the same for the run after that (that works)
<seb128_> firefox -no-remote does the same
<seb128_> asac, ok
<seb128_> asac, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/debug1
<seb128_> asac, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/debug2
<seb128_> debug 1 is the first run with -safe-mode
<seb128_> debug2 is the working one without -safe-mode
<asac> seb128_: and the third one is as short as the one you pasted here?
<asac> can you get the full strace (without -eopen) for that sitaution?
<seb128_> ups
<seb128_> I forgot the -f the first time
<seb128_> asac, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/debug3
<asac> seb128_: heh. ok
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I got simple scan in my dist-upgrade today
<rickspencer3> niiiiccceeee
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, sweet :)
<robert_ancell> pitti keeps doing the paperwork for me
<seb128_> asac, debug3 is the failing one
<asac> ack
<bryyce> rickspencer3, "...would certainly want to do anything to damage this relationship."  Think you need a 'not' in there ;-)
 * Nafai wonders if he should upgrade to Lucid before next week
<seb128_> asac, ok I fixed it
<seb128_> asac, sudo apt-get remove xul-ext-greasemonkey
<fagan> sweet since when does apport pick up on dup bugs and stop the report?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell:Lucky you. The paperwork can be a pain at times. :p
<seb128_> asac, I did remove greasemonkey before
<seb128_> asac, which apparently was not the right one
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, true!
<seb128_> asac, bug is back after reinstalling it
<asac> seb128_: your debug3 suspiciously ends after opening prefs.js
<asac> backup your profile ...
<rickspencer3> bryyce, ah
<asac> remove that file
<rickspencer3> oops
<seb128_> asac, did you read what I just wrote?
<rickspencer3> Nafai yes, upgrade
<rickspencer3> it's easy and Lucid is quite solid
<rickspencer3> :)
<asac> seb128_: yes. its kinda expected. uninstalling installing stuff (or firefox itself) is kind of similar to starting firefox after -safe-mode
<rickspencer3> just don't try to browse the web apparantly
<seb128_> asac, moving prof.js makes no difference
<Nafai> rickspencer3: heh, I've heard about the Firefox breakage, but I use Chromium anyway.
<Nafai> Just need to check that the PPAs I use have lucid
<seb128_> asac, well I started it several times
<seb128_> asac, after safe-mode it works only once
<asac> yes
<seb128_> without xul-ext-greasemonkey it works several times in a row
<seb128_> asac, any prefs.js or not = no difference
<asac> seb128_: it works several times, but then stops working at some point?
<seb128_> no
<seb128_> it works without xul-ext-greasemonkey
<asac> ok ... so its grease
<asac> yeah
<asac> got that now
<seb128_> it breaks as soon as I reinstall it
 * asac slow at 0 am
<seb128_> or rather on second run
<asac> yes, so greasemonkey is the intruder
<seb128_> asac, sorry, we can debug that tomorrow if you want
<seb128_> do you have xul-ext-greasemonkey installed?
<seb128_> does it break with it for you?
<asac> not sure. i assume pitti - who had a simliar issue - also had grasemonkey
<seb128_> likely
<seb128_> it's sort of required to triage bugs
<asac> i dont think so. i think i have the .xpi
<seb128_> if you use the web ui
<asac> if at all
<asac> let me check
<asac> i know the importance of that extension ;)
<asac> seb128_: what version is the current greaesmonkey in lucid?
<seb128_> asac, 0.8.20091209.4-1ubuntu1
<asac> !info xul-ext-greasemonkey lucid
<ubottu> xul-ext-greasemonkey (source: greasemonkey): Firefox extension that enables customization of webpages with user scripts. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.8.20091209.4-1ubuntu1 (lucid), package size 91 kB, installed size 1072 kB
<asac> ok the .xpi doesnt break it for me
<asac> let me pull the package
<seb128_> asac, do you get the issue too?
<asac> yes
<asac> i will ask bdrung to check on that ;)
<asac> at least to do a bit of poking
<asac> seb128_: for now install the .xpi ;)
<asac> that seems to work well
<asac> https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/748
<seb128_> ok thanks
<chrisccoulson> yay, suspend inhibiting works again :)
<seb128_> chrisccoulson, oh, nice, what did you change?
<chrisccoulson> seb128_ - i've just written a gpm patch to reimplement the missing functionality
<seb128_> oh, nice
<fagan> actually I have a little gpm problem in lucid
<crimsun> pitti: there is a rather stern warning in default.pa that says that X11 modules shouldn't be loaded from default.pa.
<crimsun> ah shucks
<fagan> its not showing battery settings
<chrisccoulson> fagan - "not showing battery settings"? what do you mean by this?
<fagan> chrisccoulson: it shows ac power setting and general settings but not battery power settings
<seb128_> fagan, what is energy-rate in devkit-power --dump log?
<fagan> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/363534/
<seb128_> ok, that's buggy
<seb128_> so it's not a gpm issue
<seb128_> either dkpower or linux
<fagan> ah ok
<seb128_> you should have a battery section there
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-01-27
<fagan> seb128_: thats what confused me
<fagan> it was there in karmic
<fagan> but on a fresh install of lucid a few days ago its gone
<seb128_> well bugs happen
<fagan> ill debug it tomorrow and see were the error lies
<seb128_> fagan, do you get a /proc/acpi/battery?
<fagan> yep its there
<seb128_> the status is correc too?
<seb128_> the status is correct too?
<seb128_> TheMuso, hey
<seb128_> TheMuso, are you still interested in doing the gnome-media update?
<fagan> Well when im on battery its detected and it appears in the notification area
<seb128_> TheMuso, there is a new version available for some weeks, not sure if you want to work on it
<chrisccoulson> fagan - what is in /sys/class/power_supply?
<fagan> chrisccoulson: ADP1  BAT0
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, so, the battery is detected then
<fagan> ill grab a screen of the bug if you want
<seb128_> will the dkpower log is clearly buggy
<seb128_> it lists no battery
<fagan> ah that must be it
<chrisccoulson> fagan - did you figure it out?
<fagan> nope
<fagan> I was just agreeing with seb128_ that that may be the problem
<fagan> so devkitpower must be not picking up on the battery
<seb128_> good night there
<fagan> night seb128_
<chrisccoulson> night seb128_
<fagan> chrisccoulson: ill have a chat with pitti tomorrow and see if he can figure it out
<huats> didrocks, bug 513038
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 513038 in gtksourceview2 "Update to 2.9.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/513038
<LLStarks> hi.
<LLStarks> i was wondering if someone can help me find a bug report that sebastien says already exists, but won't link  to.
<LLStarks> the proper bug for this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/502784
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 502784 in nautilus "unable to select a file or directory from an app" [Wishlist,Invalid]
<LLStarks> a bug i'd like to track, but not have to waste hours tracking down
<fagan> LLStarks: wait for seb he will be back on tomorrow
<fagan> its late in europe
<LLStarks> k
<LLStarks> i don't blame him for having his hands full and being unable to remember every single bug number to link from duplicates, but it certainly helps when the original bug is linked when a duplicate is closed. i have a vested interest in seeing the well-intentioned dupes that i report get fixed.
<LLStarks> nothing screams dead-end like an invalid with no indication of what the actual afflicted package is
<LLStarks> it's not transparent enough
<fagan> LLStarks: seb is awesome he would know if it was a dup or not but id say he cant remember them all
<fagan> LLStarks: it is transparent
<fagan> but you cant expect the devs to drop what they are doing to fix something on the wishlist
<LLStarks> that's not what i'm asking
<fagan> Its fine
<LLStarks> all i ask is that dupes are linked instead of a generic "i can't remember or link the bug, but i already know about it".
<LLStarks> that's annoying
<LLStarks> because i can't follow anymore
<fagan> LLStarks: he takes care of a lot of bugs id trust that he did see it
<fagan> Someone would take care of it if it was important
<LLStarks> that doesn't change my concerns, where do i go from here? seb hasn't given me any information that would guide me to the proper bug.
<LLStarks> i don't know the package or even the proper way to describe the bug so that i could find it
<LLStarks> all i have is an invalid  unlabeled dupe.
<LLStarks> this isn't the first time i've run into this problem with seb's way of doing things.
<chrisccoulson> LLStarks - you say "a bug i'd like to track, but not have to waste hours tracking down", but you expect us to waste hours tracking these down instead?
<chrisccoulson> that's not productive use of our time...
<LLStarks> it's difficult to search for a bug when i don't even know the proper package
<LLStarks> that's the problem.
<LLStarks> i don't need a link.
<LLStarks> if he had said "it's not nautilus, it's PackageX" that would be enough
<LLStarks> launchpad search is pretty useless you know the proper package to bugsearch
<LLStarks> is even this unreasonable to ask for?
<pitti> Good morning
<baptistemm> hello pitti
<robert_ancell> pitti, hey
<pitti> hey baptistemm
<pitti> robert_ancell: good morning!
<robert_ancell> pitti, thanks for the simple-scan MIR!
<pitti> robert_ancell: you're welcome; just sponsored your new package
<robert_ancell> thanks
<robert_ancell> bratsche, hi
<bratsche> Hey!
<pitti> TheMuso: hey
<pitti> TheMuso: WDYT about changing pulseaudio to drop /etc/xdg/autostart/pulseaudio.desktop and /usr/bin/start-pulseaudio-x11, and instead enabling the three modules in default.pa? that would save some startup overhead
<pitti> ah, I'll file a bug for it
<pitti> TheMuso: filed as bug 513120 now; let's discuss it there
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 513120 in pulseaudio "Can /etc/xdg/autostart/pulseaudio.desktop be dropped?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/513120
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks! did you sleep well?
<didrocks> oh yes, thanks, long and resting night :-)
<seb128> hey
<didrocks> hey seb128
<didrocks> seb128: thanks for the sponsoring yesterday
<didrocks> how are you?
<seb128> good! you?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> hey didrocks, hey pitti
<seb128> had a good night?
<pitti> yes, indeed
<didrocks> so do I :)
<pitti> went to bed at 22:15 yesterday, I was so tired :)
<pitti> so I got up at 6:30 again
<seb128> waouh
<seb128> I should do that too
<seb128> I went to bed after 1am again yesterday
<seb128> I don't feel tired in the evening
<pitti> well, as long as you sleep long
<seb128> but I do in the morning next day
<pitti> usually I go to bed past midnight, too
<pitti> it seems to be a more natural cycle for me
<seb128> right, I like 1am to 8am
<seb128> as sleep cycle I mean
<seb128> pitti, btw do you have the xul greasmonkey package installed?
<seb128> pitti, I got the "firefox is not starting after upgrade" issue yesterday too
<pitti> seb128: I got it again today
<seb128> pitti, it was due to greasemonkey for me
<pitti> I blame the langpacks
<seb128> uninstalling it make it work
<pitti> ah, indeed
<pitti> can be
<pitti> I removed all extensions again today
<pitti> and right now I don't have greasemonkey
<seb128> ok
<seb128> here firefox exit on start without error when it's installed
<seb128> and works when I uninstall it
<seb128> pitti, do you want me to have a look to what nm-applet is doing?
<seb128> pitti, I was going to do that but I noticed you just edited the whiteboard about it
<pitti> seb128: sure, that'd be great
<pitti> seb128: oh, I just fixed the duplicate
<pitti> there were two items for the same nm-applet thing
<seb128> ok
<seb128> doing that then
<seb128> pitti, oh btw the 2 seconds g-s-d gap on our laptops is xrandr indeed
<pitti> ah, ok
<seb128> pitti, having a .xml config or not makes no difference
<seb128> neither do being docked or not
<seb128> but if I turn the xrandr off in gconf the 2 seconds gap go away
<seb128> I guess it's the screen probing g-s-d does for the magic key to be working etc
<seb128> seems xorg is busy during that time on the chart
<seb128> I'm not sure why it's not an issue on the mini though
<pitti> no external TFT?
<seb128> bah launchpad going down in 5 minutes
<seb128> can't they do that out of work hours ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i just thought the same thing there too ;)
<chrisccoulson> i never see announcements for LP going down any more. perhaps i'm subscribed to the wrong mailing lists
<mvo> I hope my bzr push finishes in time
<mvo> (or is not affected by the LP maintainace)
<pitti> well, you can still use staging to read bugs :)
<Hobbsee> o
<chrisccoulson> seb128 / pitti - i wonder if gsd could use the less expensive XRRGetScreenResourcesCurrent call when starting up, rather than XRRGetScreenResources, which does a re-probe and is slow
<pitti> chrisccoulson: perhaps you can ask tseliot when he comes back online? he dealt with this quite a lot in the past
<chrisccoulson> i suppose that would only work if X probes the monitors when it starts, and all the information requested is already up-to-date
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i might ask him
<chrisccoulson> other than that, i don't know of any way to avoid that
<pitti> but doesn't it?
<pitti> (I mean X probing monitors)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, they are announced on launchpad-announce
<pitti> the log has everything about it, after all
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thats what i'm thinking. perhaps we are actually probing the monitors twice here
<seb128> chrisccoulson, gnome-desktop already has code for that apparently
<seb128> #if (RANDR_MAJOR > 1 || (RANDR_MAJOR == 1 && RANDR_MINOR >= 3))
<seb128>         /* Runtime check for RandR 1.3 or higher */
<seb128>         if (info->screen->rr_major_version == 1 && info->screen->rr_minor_version >= 3)
<seb128>             resources = XRRGetScreenResourcesCurrent
<seb128> ...
<seb128> but it has a "needs_reprobe" too
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - it does, but when you call gnome_rr_screen_new, it calls it with needs_reprobe
<seb128> and it calls XRRGetScreenResources() in those case
<seb128> I'm leaning toward saying that if somebody did that it's for a reason
<seb128> but maybe not ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i think you're probably right
<Ng> aha, I might have an idea about what causes the gnome screensaver password pop-under bug. It happened just now and just at the same time docky was calling attention to itself because of the Mounter applet seeing my phone
<chrisccoulson> screensaver pop-under?
<Ng> chrisccoulson: twice ever, I've unsuspended my laptop and been typing my password to a screensaver unlock "screen" that's under all my desktop stuff (I only know this because my desktop is always covered in translucent terminals, so I can see the unlock dialog through them
<Ng> I filed a bug last time, just looking for it now
<Ng> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/487165
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 487165 in compiz "screensaver unlock dialog under other windows" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<chrisccoulson> oh, it's reported against compiz. that's why i didn't notice it reported
<Ng> chrisccoulson: it seemed like the most appropriate place, but I can open a task against gnome-screensaver if that should be taking more defensive measures to prevent this happening. I kinda assumed it was up to the window manager to enforce whatever policy gnome screensaver requests
<chrisccoulson> Ng - yeah, it's more likely a WM issue
<pitti> chrisccoulson: and there's tseliot :)
<didrocks> updating brasero
<didrocks> seb128: ^
<didrocks> well, when I will be able to branch again :)
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<seb128> didrocks, well launchpad is supposed to be down for 2.5 hours
<didrocks> seb128: right, I'm reading/writing some docs in the meanwhile (that's good, I had that planned but never prioritarized it)
<chrisccoulson> Ng - for your screensaver issue, could you switch to a console when the issue happens, and run "DISPLAY=:0.0 xprop -root | grep _NET_ACTIVE_WINDOW"
<Ng> chrisccoulson: I'll leave that on a post-it note for whenever it next happens :)
<chrisccoulson> and then run "DISPLAY=:0.0 xprop -id <id>", where <id> is the window ID from the last command
<chrisccoulson> you might need to tweak the display number there as well
<Ng> chrisccoulson: out of curiosity, what will this tell us?
<chrisccoulson> it will tell us what the WM thinks the current focused window is
<Ng> ok
<Ng> fwiw, from my perspective the unlock dialog totally had focus, I couldn't deliver keyboard or mouse events to anything else (and I really tried, to see if I should escalate my complaining to screaming ;)
<Ng> but I'll get that info if I see it again
<chrisccoulson> Ng - it might be worth providing the full output of xprop -root is actually, as that will also indicate what the WM thinks the windowing order is
<Ng> ok
<TheMuso> pitti: afaik crimsun said something about that earlier, don't know if you saw it. I'll dig it up if not.
<pitti> TheMuso: hm, seems I missed it then; I got thrown out of the channel over night, apparently I wasn't registered to freenode
<TheMuso> pitti: ah ok, I'll dig it out of logs.
<TheMuso> 10:28:01 < crimsun> pitti: there is a rather stern warning in default.pa that says that X11 modules shouldn't be loaded from default.pa.
<pitti> # X11 modules should not be started from default.pa so that one daemon
<pitti> # can be shared by multiple sessions.
<pitti> I don't understand that, though
<pitti> if you use pactl to add another module at runtime, it will affect the other sessions as well if you share the daemon
<pitti> if that means "by multiple users", I'd agree, but that's what /etc/pulse/system.pa is for?
<pitti> crimsun: ^
<didrocks> seb128: huats asked me to sponsor gtksourceview2 update, but I got a rejection, can you do in whenever you have some free time, please? bug #513038
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 513038 in gtksourceview2 "Update to 2.9.5" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/513038
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<didrocks> thanks :-)
<seb128> np
 * pitti finishes measuring impact of autostart files
<seb128> pitti, what is the result?
<pitti> added to https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-startup-speed
<pitti> it also has a link to the detailled charts
<seb128> boot speed is quite depressing
<pitti> nothign too surprising
<pitti>  - essentials: g-p-m, g-s-d, nm-applet, screensaver: 8.0 (+3.5)
<pitti> i. e. those four increase by 3.5 seconds
<pitti> gsd is 80% background image, though
<seb128> " - the ones deferred with a sleep: 4.5 (+0) -> no impact, as expected"
<seb128> bah
<seb128> chrisccoulson, not worth doing your change maybe then
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i just noticed that too
<seb128> the "add a new delay key to avoid spawning a shell etc"
<pitti> it would just be for cleanliness
<pitti> but not first priority indeed
<seb128> pitti, are you sure that xdg-user-dirs spawns a shell there?
<seb128> it's a bit weird, it's a C program
<pitti> it first appeared in http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/autostart-impact/4-polkit-userdirs.png
<pitti> checking that was next on my list
<seb128> pitti, well it uses g_spawn_command_line_sync to call xdg-user-dirs-update...
<pitti> $ strace -e execve xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update
<pitti> execve("/usr/bin/xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update", ["xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update"], [/* 50 vars */]) = 0
<pitti> hmm
<pitti> ah
<seb128> I doubt that costs anything
<seb128> pitti, background rendering... would be worth testing with an image matching the screen
<seb128> just to see what difference the rescaling does
<seb128> that could maybe be cache too
<seb128> cached
<pitti> ah, indeed
<pitti> we could at least have a special image for a _totally_ arbitrary resolution, say 1024x600 :)
<seb128> lol
<pitti> well, to be fair that's a pretty common netbook res
<seb128> let's see first how much win that would make
<seb128> pitti, btw g-s is essential?
<seb128> or could it start 30 seconds after login
<pitti> oh, it can for sure
<seb128> the other ones can't really
<pitti> seb128: I can do these four again perhaps, with separate charts for each
<seb128> you want to go online and g-s-d sets themes, etc
<pitti> g-s-d and nm-applet are essential indeed
<pitti> we could cheat a bit with g-p-m
<seb128> I was not sure about gpm
<pitti> but seriously, it' just be circumventing bootchart
<seb128> but I guess gnome-screensaver can be delayed after busy time
<pitti> not change the user experience
<seb128> we need gnome-session to send a signal "done loading"
<pitti> this stuff all happens in the bg
<seb128> and trigger those at this time
<seb128> well
<pitti> seb128: we could start g-p-m with nice level?
<chrisccoulson> gnome-screensaver used to be deferred for 30 seconds when it was spawned by g-s-d
<seb128> how much login speed is impacted by the number of processes?
<pitti> number of processes by itself shouldn't matter
<pitti> if they are mostly in poll()/sleep()
<seb128> ie, how much tasks commutations cost us
<seb128> lunch time bbl
<pitti> seb128: hm, g_spawn_command_line_sync() doesn't actually invoke a shell, though
<pitti> I guess it's coming from somewhere else then
<pitti> LANG= strace -f -e execve /usr/bin/xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update
<pitti> -> directly execve's /usr/bin/xdg-user-dirs-update
<pitti> didrocks: hi
<pitti> didrocks: so, replacing /usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png with an already correctly sized version (1024x600) halves g-s-d's CPU time
<pitti> didrocks: in order to exploit that, we'd need to add a new feature to g-s-d to check /desktop/gnome/background/<resolution>/ first, before /desktop/gnome/background/
<pitti> didrocks: so that we can add a warty-final-ubuntu-1024x600 and point to that in /desktop/gnome/background/1024x600/
<pitti> didrocks: do you have enough cycles to work on that?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - want me to do that?
<chrisccoulson> ah
<chrisccoulson> no worries ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: if you have the cycles, sure
<pitti> but you already have so much, and still have a dayjob, and all that :)
<didrocks> pitti: sorry, I was having my lunch :)
<pitti> didrocks: how can you DARE having food!?!
<didrocks> pitti: I can work on that, yes, can you please add a WI with those info?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, my day job is still a bit of an obstacle
<didrocks> pitti: heh
<pitti> didrocks: thanks; I'll add a WI for it
<didrocks> pitti: sometimes, like 3 times a day, sorry ;)
<pitti> *tsk*
 * pitti hugs didrocks
 * didrocks hugs pitti
<pitti> and hugs chrisccoulson, too
 * chrisccoulson hugs pitti
 * seb128 back from lunch
<seb128> yeah, I dare having food too :-)
<seb128> we french need to eat!
<didrocks> :)
<pitti> didrocks: added
<didrocks> pitti: thanks
<pitti> seb128: so, that was a good hint; saves a lot of g-s-d's CPU time
<pitti> as a revenge, I'll have lunch now!!
<seb128> pitti, excellent
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> pitti, enjoy
<didrocks> enjoy pitti!
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: other solution would be to cache the updated image
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: that would apply to any screen setting...
<pitti> *nod*
<seb128> rather than depending on us to ship an image for a special screen config
<pitti> I don't care much about the implementation
<seb128> well, the cache would work for user images too
<seb128> I guess most users change their background
<seb128> where the hacked version would benefit benchmarks mostly
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> seb128: yes, that's better, so, saving the pixbuf on the disk
<seb128> didrocks, yes
<pitti> didrocks: WI updated
<pitti> I removed the implementation, and just kept the effect
<didrocks> yep :)
<seb128> didrocks, I guess it's probably a gnome-desktop change
<seb128> since gnome-bg apis are there
<didrocks> at least, I'll have made some work to reduce the loading time :)
<seb128> vuntz, there for a gnome-panel question?
<didrocks> seb128: gnome-desktop in g-s-d?
<seb128> didrocks, no, gnome-desktop gnome-desktop
<seb128> the gnome-bg apis are in libgnome-desktop as said before
<didrocks> seb128: oh ok, looking at it
<didrocks> thanks
<seb128> np
<tseliot> pitti: would something like this work well for you (note: I haven't written a test for it yet)? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/363821/
<pitti> tseliot: looks fine to me
<tseliot> pitti: I guess there's no need to prevent Jockey from enabling the module (in enable) if we pass do_blacklist=False
<pitti> tseliot: no, I don't think so; if it's still in blacklist.local, it should still be removed I think
<pitti> if for nothing else, then for upgrading
<tseliot> pitti: right, it's what I thought
<tseliot> bzr diff --diff-options -Nurp gives me the equivalent of diff -Nurp :-) http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/363823/
<tseliot> s/of/for/
<tseliot> pitti: BTW we should be able to upload the new jockey soon, thanks to Riddell
<didrocks> seb128: do you know the difference between libgnome-desktop-2-17 and gnome-menu? I would have said that the second one is using libgnome-desktop-2-17 to open desktop file, but it's not listed as a build-dep
<Riddell> tseliot: should be appearing in the archive as soon as publisher does its thing
<seb128> didrocks, I would say gnome-menus uses g_key directly
<tseliot> Riddell: sounds good
<seb128> didrocks, gnome-desktop is mostly deprecated, and gnome-menus handle menus, ie layouts, categories, etc
<seb128> didrocks, libgnome-desktop just handles .desktop entries
<tseliot> pitti: oh, shipped_handlers.py already runs the tests against the nvidia handler. I think it should be enough
<pitti> I need to leave for 1.5 hours to visit my grandpa; bbl
<didrocks> seb128: ok, thanks for the info
 * vish just found ~2GB + 700mb gdm log files :/   
<vish> seems to be full of repeat error >  http://paste.ubuntu.com/363843/    [since update gdm (2.29.5-0ubuntu1) to 2.29.5-0ubuntu2 ???]
<seb128> doesn't seem a gdm error
<seb128> rather an xorg or video driver one
<vish> yeah , but gdm is logging it
 * vish checks x-org update
<didrocks> is really g-s-d which draw the background, because on the code calling libgnome-desktop bg API, I see: http://paste.ubuntu.com/363862/
<huats> hello everyone
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - that checks if nautilus is drawing the desktop (i think)
<chrisccoulson> if nautilus is configured in gconf to not draw the desktop, then g-s-d draws it instead
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: yes, and in that case, g-s-d doesn't draw it
<chrisccoulson> i don't know how you do it on UNE though
<didrocks> oh right, UNE doesn't have nautilus drawing the desktop
<didrocks> that's why pitti's test have some impact on g-s-d :)
<didrocks> hey huats
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - thats what i though too :)
<chrisccoulson> s/though/thought
<chrisccoulson> s'oh
<chrisccoulson> d'oh
<huats> hey didrocks
<chrisccoulson> my fingers are too big for the keyboard ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: heh
<fagan> why was qt jack control pulled into lucid?
<fagan> oh and pitti why would devkit power not log my battery?
<fagan> Im trying to figure out why my battery isnt showing up in the pm prefences
<Riddell> tseliot: new python-kde4 is in
<tseliot> Riddell: \o/ thanks a lot
<pitti> re
<pitti> didrocks: yes, in UNE nautilus doesn't manage the desktop
<pitti> fagan: hm, can you run sudo /usr/lib/devicekit-power/devkit-power-daemon -v manually and put the output into a bug report?
<pitti> fagan: (kill the previous daemon first)
<rickspencer3> good morning all
<rickspencer3> what's the word on the street?
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<pitti> "the fast and the furious" :)
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
<dpm> hi pitti, we've detected a problem with the translations of Firefox in some languages on the karmic-proposed language packs. That has now been fixed.
<dpm> After talking to ArneGoetje, it seems that the easiest thing would be to remove all the current language packs from karmic-proposed for now, wait until the next PPA build and then copy those again to karmic-proposed.
<pitti> dpm: can do
<dpm> What do you think? May I ask you remove all language packs from -proposed?
<dpm> ok, thanks pitti, do you want me to file a bug or something or is that enough?
<pitti> dpm: no, it's JFDI (just not entirely trivial to do)
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<dpm> ok, thanks a lot pitti
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<fagan> pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/devicekit-power/+bug/513271
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 513271 in devicekit-power "Battery preferences not displayed in power management preferences" [Undecided,New]
<fagan> and the log is http://launchpadlibrarian.net/38448686/devkit-power%20output.log
<seb128> the fonts aliasing look weird in new firefox or that's me?
<seb128> or anti aliasing rather
<fagan> pitti: do you need any more info from me?
<pitti> seb128: known
<pitti> fagan: looks fine; now, perhaps you can also remove the battery, then do "devkit-power --monitor-detail", plug in the battery, then ^C and copy&paste the output to the bug?
<pitti> fagan: (just to have it complete)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i thought the fonts looked weird too, but i wasn't sure whether it was just because i was running it in virtualbox
<seb128> pitti, chrisccoulson: thanks
<chrisccoulson> oh, i didn't see pitti's response there already ;)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - bug 512615
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 512615 in firefox "fonts are incorrectly rendered due to not using system cairo" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512615
<seb128> thanks
<fagan> pitti: attached
<fagan> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/38448914/devkit-power%20--monitor-detail.log
<pitti> fagan: hm, seems to detect it just fine; with that you don't get a battery in gpm either?
<fagan> pitti: nope still not there
<fagan> Its a mystery :)
<pitti> fagan: hm, and then finally "devkit-power --dump" output ?
<seb128> pitti, yesterday it was not in devkit-power --dump log
<fagan> pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/devicekit-power/+bug/513271/comments/4
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 513271 in devicekit-power "Battery preferences not displayed in power management preferences" [Undecided,New]
<pitti> fagan: thanks; it seems that dk-p is actually doing alright here
<pitti> fagan: so I'm afraid we need to look at g-p-m now
<seb128> fagan, did you restart gpm?
<pitti> fagan: can you please killall gnome-power-manager
<pitti> gnome-power-manager  --verbose >/tmp/log 2>&1
<pitti> let it sit for a while, ^C, and attach /tmp/log ?
<fagan> cool
<fagan> oh that fixed it :)
<fagan> It just needed a restart
<seb128> oh
<seb128> buglists got an heat column on edge now
<fagan> pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/devicekit-power/+bug/513271 its fixed but if you want to see the gpm log I attached it
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 513271 in devicekit-power "Battery preferences not displayed in power management preferences" [Undecided,New]
<pitti> fagan: ok; invalid then?
<pitti> fagan: if gpm is working, it's not of much use
<seb128> fagan, does it work after a restart?
<seb128> or does it work only after you restart devkit-power and gpm?
<fagan> Yep so its invalid now
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - is the heat column there for measuring the rage of users then?
<seb128> lol
<mclasen> pitti: hey, I just talked to jakub about __assert_msg
<fagan> well I restarted both and it was fixed seb128 so I presume so
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I think some other datas are taken in account for it
<pitti> hi mclasen
<mclasen> pitti: he recommends that we should just call glibc's __assert_fail instead of trying to write to __assert_msg
<seb128> fagan, well it was broken and it's fixed for no reason
<seb128> fagan, usually bugs don't go away this way, it might be a race on start on something
<pitti> mclasen: ah, that does seem to be public indeed
<fagan> seb128: true but id say it was configured with a bug somewhere and when both were restarted it was reconfigured and fixed
<fagan> I did a fresh install about 2 weeks ago
<mclasen> pitti: it has to, since it is used in the assert() macro
<seb128> fagan, well still have a look at next reboot
<fagan> seb128: Yep I will if its still broken ill reopen it
<pitti> mclasen: that would indeed solve  all that hocuspocus; we'd need to drop the g_test_log() though, which would change the output string format
<pitti> (not sure how much is relying on that)
<mclasen> can't we just replace abort by __assert_fail ? I guess that would give duplicated messages...
<pitti> *nod*
<pitti> that would look even worse
<pitti> seb128: did you do a chart comparison with your panel change?
<seb128> pitti, yes, but it's hard to tell how much it wins, especially than gnome-panel is not the slower part
<seb128> pitti, I'm doing some new ones without the wm and nautilus now
<seb128> pitti, it changed from 0.8s to 0.6s start on hot cache for my laptop config...
<pitti> sounds like a good improvement
<seb128> it should also avoid the delay we have between some applets load or some charts
<pitti> it might not change the total chart a lot
<seb128> right
<pitti> since the CPU is pretty much full anyway
<seb128> still it's good to take
<pitti> but more compact CPU blobs make the entire thing more predictable and easier to optimize
<seb128> and it's probably a better win for desktop
<seb128> une doesn't have lot of applets loaded
 * pitti turns his attention to ssh-agent again
<seb128> slomo, hum
<seb128> slomo, the totemplparser gir naming you choose doesn't respect the gir policy
<seb128> slomo, and you picked a naming different from ubuntu too...
<huats> seb128, didrocks Can I do the pessulus update ?
<seb128> huats, sure
<huats> than I am on it
<pitti> chrisccoulson: do you know what currently triggers gconfd?
<fagan> seb128: I have a bug with gbrainy, it punshes you for bad spelling :)
<fagan> *punishes
<chrisccoulson> pitti - gnome-session spawns gconf-sanity-check, which activates it
<seb128> fagan, no clue about that one, ask robert_ancell when he's around
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is gconf-sanity-check really required? what does it do?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'd like to play around with starting it alongside gnome-session
<pitti> chrisccoulson: we have a free CPU slot right when g-s starts
<chrisccoulson> pitti / seb128 - i was thinking about dropping gconf-sanity-check as well. my gnome-session patch starts gconf-sanity-check earlier than normal too
<didrocks> seb128: FYI, my patch for totemplparser is integrated upstream
<seb128> didrocks, good work
<seb128> makes me think I need to sponsor gtksourceview
<seb128> doing that now
<pitti> chrisccoulson: just execv'ing gconfd wouldn't work, would it? it needs some d-bus env vars AFAIK?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - want me to look at starting gconfd alongside?
<chrisccoulson> i wrote a tiny little helper a few weeks back, which could drop in Xsession.d
<pitti> chrisccoulson: if you want to, that'd be great; I'm just curious to understand that bit, too
<chrisccoulson> the helper literally just fork'd, and the child exec'd gconfd and the parent exec'd gnome-session
<pitti> we have some 0.7 seconds when g-session starts
<pitti> until anything else happens
<pitti> we should start gconfd alongside
<seb128> didn't chrisccoulson's changes took care of this delay?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i agree. and that 0.7s should shrink with my change to get the required components from a keyfile too
<chrisccoulson> although there's still a 150ms delay parsing the desktop files
<pitti> seb128: well, but I think we need to start gconfd earlier, not later
<pitti> chrisccoulson: once we have enough parallelism to keep both CPUs busy, the order doesn't matter so much any more
<pitti> I guess that's why your patches change some details, but don't have a huge impact on the overall time
<pitti> also, I just compared a chart without autostart with and without ssh-agent
<pitti> the difference is about 0
<pitti> in the second chart ssh-agent is absent, but the delay between g-session and maximus/panel/etc. is the same
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, if you want to look into that (thanks!), I'll have another stab at some gconf optimization
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks, i will take a look at that when i get home
<huats> didrocks, seb128 bug 513316
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 513316 in pessulus "Update to 2.29.6" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/513316
<seb128> huats, thanks
<huats> seb128, it feels good to do some stuffs :)
<huats> (well even it was trivial..)
<seb128> ;-)
<tseliot> pitti: shall I copy b43.py broadcom_wl.py and dvb_usb_firmware.py to examples/handlers/ in trunk or shall I just update fglrx and nvidia?
<didrocks> all my FF tabs are lost /o\
<didrocks> what is strange is that sessionstore.js still have them
<tseliot> google chrome FTW
<tseliot> ;)
<tseliot> 254 tabs and the app doesn't crash
<didrocks> well, first, I must get back my tabs
<fagan> didrocks: wont firefox recover them when it restarts?
<didrocks> fagan: not this time, this is what is strange
<didrocks> otherwise, I won't have tell that
<fagan> didrocks: must be a bug then
<didrocks> right
<seb128> doing the libwnck gnome-desktop gnome-panel upgrades
<chrisccoulson> pitti - would banshee releases be covered under the standing freeze-exception we have for GNOME packages (it seems banshee has a time-based release schedule aligned with GNOME now)
<chrisccoulson> hyperair sent a mail to the ubuntu-motu list asking if there could be a freeze exception for the stable release, due on 31 March
<hyperair> \o/
<seb128> I think tracking those is a good idea
<seb128> shame that they didn't decide ealier on a schedule
<seb128> we would perhaps have switched for the lts
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i quite like banshee :)
<hyperair> =\
<hyperair> oh well.
<pitti> rickspencer3: that's what I get for ~apport-hackers team assigned bugs: http://paste.ubuntu.com/363960/
<rickspencer3> ah
<rickspencer3> pitti, so that's a bug in lazr
<rickspencer3> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lazr.restfulclient/+bug/495326/
<rickspencer3> they've merged in my fix, and it should be available soon
<seb128> is that the same bug I got a month ago?
<rickspencer3> seb128, yes
<seb128> ok
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 495326 in lazr.restfulclient "AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'self_link'" [High,Fix committed]
<seb128> no need to try bughugger again then
<seb128> I had that on my todolist
<rickspencer3> if you want to fix it yourself, you just need to add a gaurd condition to one spot in the code
<seb128> do you need help to get the fix in lucid?
<rickspencer3> seb128, when you see the new JSON features from bdmurray and bryceh, I think you will be happy
<seb128> it seems ridiculous it's waiting for a month now
<rickspencer3> seb128, I think they just merged the code like a couple of days ago
<seb128> well, doesn't mean we will get a new version or a lucid upgrade before weeks
<rickspencer3> if you wouldn't mind seeing if they need some help getting it into Ubuntu, that would be great
<seb128> ok, will check
<pitti> rickspencer3: sweet!
<rickspencer3> pitti, ?
<pitti> rickspencer3: for retroactively fixing the bugs that I find
<rickspencer3> lol
<seb128> pitti is quite good at this game too
<seb128> :-)
<pitti> you could perhaps just add an except:/pass: workaround to bug_task_dict ?
<tseliot> pitti: ^^^
<rickspencer3> yeah
<rickspencer3> pitti, exception handling throughout is needed
<rickspencer3> bughugger is a small script that I wrote to answer a question I had one day
<rickspencer3> but it became sentient and started writing itself
<rickspencer3> at that point, I had to send a robot back through time to fix the lazr bug
<pitti> tseliot: what did you change in b43.py/ broadcom_wl.py? anyway, if the changes would be sensible to have on e.g. Fedora, then change them in trunk; if they are truly ubuntu specific (like uor alternatives handling), just change them in the ubuntu branch
<tseliot> pitti: they aren't included in trunk, that's all
<pitti> chrisccoulson: banshee> if they get out their stable releases with the same criteria that GNOME itself has, sure (like, stable branches, etc.)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: and obeying the UI/string/etc. freezes
<pitti> tseliot: ah, right; no need then, just change in the ubuntu branch
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks
<chrisccoulson> hyperair^^
<tseliot> pitti: ok, so shall I put only the do_blacklist thing in trunk and put the changes to the handlers in the ubuntu branch, then finally merge from trunk?
<pitti> tseliot: right
<tseliot> pitti: ok then
<hyperair> pitti: where can i find these said criteria?
<pitti> hyperair: hm, they should be documented at gnome.org somewhere; I'll have a loo
<pitti> hyperair: I just sponsored the dk-p karmic-proposed change, wil process now
<hyperair> pitti: thanks
<pitti> hyperair: AFAIR the gnome-power-manager in karmic-proposed is already good, right?
<pitti> hyperair: I don't see an updated patch
<hyperair> pitti: i haven't uploaded it.
<hyperair> pitti: it's in svn.debian.org
<pitti> ah
<hyperair> lemme just get it out
<pitti> hyperair: so it does need yet another g-p-m patch then?
<hyperair> yes.
<pitti> hyperair: I thought the one that you added yesterday was for swsusp
<pitti> but that's not really a concern for Ubuntu (we don't support that anyway)
<hyperair> pitti: it was.
<hyperair> pitti: but uswsusp does chvts
<hyperair> pitti: and that caused the issue.
<pitti> right, mbiebl told me
<hyperair> pm-utils also does chvts.
<hyperair> and we support non-KMS users.
<hyperair> so we should have this patch.
<pitti> hm, I heared that the pm-utils quirks have a different timing, and somehow aren't affected by this race (so much? just not enough?)
<pitti> ok
<hyperair> they are affected
<hyperair> just that my first attempt at fixing it managed to fix pm-utils' one
<hyperair> that method used g_idle_add
<hyperair> that should delay it by a few milliseconds
<seb128> pitti, I think the banshee case is different, lucid has an unstable version
<hyperair> but i think uswsusp's chvts are done later
<seb128> pitti, that's about following versions to the stable one
<seb128> pitti, their stable is due after our freeze
<hyperair> seb128: yeah that's right. also, we got 1.5.1 into karmic after finalfreeze as it had a whole truckload of bugfixes.
<hyperair> it's likely that 1.5.3 onwards will also have a similar number of bugfixes.
<seb128> tracking 1.5 for karmic was a weird choice
<hyperair> the other option is 1.4.3 but it's very dated.
<hyperair> pitti: i'll wring out a patch for gpm (karmic) tomorrow. right now my arms feel like lead.
<seb128> right, good that they decided on a schedule now ;-)
<hyperair> seb128: yeah, that's right. it took them long enough >_
<hyperair> >
<pitti> hyperair: thanks; I accepted dk-p for now
<hyperair> pitti: thanks. that should solve half the problem.
<hyperair> what's left is the consolekit issue
 * hyperair => bed
<mvo> asac: could you have a look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/363976/ please? from a hardy->lucid upgrade , probably trivial, but the debian/changelog does not mention when the -branding package got split out
<asac> mvo: yes. the 3.0 transition packages are on our list
<asac> so thats expected
<asac> will get that to micahg
<asac> mvo: does that block you from testing?
<asac> e.g. urgent to get in?
<seb128> ok, I'm off for sport and dinner outside
<seb128> see you later or tomorrow
<ccheney> pitti: who should i ping about getting 509920 silgraphite2.0 mir done
<pitti> ccheney: I'll do a round of MIR assigning
<ccheney> pitti: thanks
<didrocks> going to enjoy some japanese food now. See you later or tomorrow :)
<pitti> au revoir didrocks
<pitti> bye everyone
<rickspencer3> ok
<djsiegel> kenvandine: ping
<kenvandine> djsiegel, pong
<djsiegel> kenvandine: any news on the empathy theme bits we talked about two weeks ago?
<djsiegel> I just wanted to push on it a bit
<kenvandine> no, i haven't heard anything
<djsiegel> can we JFDI and see if it works/
<djsiegel> and see what comes up?
<kenvandine> wasn't the theme dude making some changes for us?
<kenvandine> the author of renkoo
<Sarvatt> hmm thats odd, hit tab for completion in gnome-terminal and get this robert@asuka{~/Desktop}:scp ScreenWARNING: Unhandled message: interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable, path=/, member=Introspectshot.png
<Sarvatt> hit tab after typing Screen there
<bryceh> Sarvatt, checked for recent changes in bash-completion?
<Sarvatt> 14 Nov 2009
<djsiegel> kenvandine: yeah, but as far as I can see it's ready to drop
<djsiegel> I am sure there will be some more changes
<Sarvatt> completion is just broken like above in gnome-terminal at least, works fine from a VT
<chrisccoulson> Sarvatt - what sort of environment are you running gnome-terminal in?
<Sarvatt> just a normal gnome session
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, strange
<Sarvatt> lucid, all the latest updates if thats what you meant, sorry
<Sarvatt> started after pulling in ~8 hours worth of updates a few hours ago, still happening after a reboot
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, any psuedo-code for me. how to find images in Gwibber streams?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, one sec
<rickspencer3> thanks
<kenvandine> a view function:
<kenvandine> if (doc.images.length > 0)
<kenvandine> emit(doc._id, doc.images);
<kenvandine> in couchdb
<kenvandine> for a view
<kenvandine> but ryan is going to add a method to get "real" images... which doesn't include a bunch of junk we get now
<kenvandine> mostly from facebook
<kenvandine> all the quizzes, etc
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, what's the name of the database and record types?
<rickspencer3> and also, I assume that will return urls pointing to images?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> one sec
<kenvandine> check out lp:~segphault/gwibber/overhaul
<kenvandine> and look at
<kenvandine> gwibber/microblog/util/couch.py
<kenvandine> it defines all that stuff
<rickspencer3> kewl
<rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
 * rickspencer3 has project for the evening
<crimsun> TheMuso: WRT pitti's bug report on /etc/xdg/autostart/pulseaudio.desktop: is there a method to hook into the session besides /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ ?
<TheMuso> crimsun: afaik no.
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: When do you want to do Eastern Edition Desktop team meeting?
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, sure, give me 10 mins?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: sure
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, just updating the wiki atm, be done shortly
<TheMuso> ok
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, wiki is saving
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, around for Eastern Edition, one day late?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, can do
<rickspencer3> the full meeting was only 30 minutes, so I hope this doesn't take much longer ;)
<rickspencer3> looking at the wiki I don't see anything specifically urgent to call out
<rickspencer3> except that start time targets, still lots of work to do there
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, I just added in your activity report
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> I suppose the link would help:
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-01-26
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, robert_ancell any questions about the meeting minutes?
 * robert_ancell reading
<robert_ancell> nope
<robert_ancell> irc log is a bit hard to read...
<rickspencer3> huh
 * rickspencer3 fixes
<robert_ancell> thanks
 * bryceh waves
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, fixed now?
<robert_ancell> bryceh, another name change?
<bryceh> robert_ancell, yeah I need a new nick.  Seems I've lost 'bryce'.  !<3 freenode
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, any audio status update?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Not this week.
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> seb128, hry
<robert_ancell> hey
<seb128> robert_ancell, how are you?
<seb128> robert_ancell, I did change gnome-panel today to user an higher idle priority for the applets loading
<Nafai> yay, about to upgrade to Lucid
<seb128> robert_ancell, strace says it delays the redraws to after the load calls as expected and reduce their numbers
<robert_ancell> seb128, cool
<seb128> robert_ancell, that doesn't seem to make a strong difference on loading time though, ie it's still slow...
<seb128> but that's still something ;-)
<robert_ancell> :)
<seb128> loading on hot cache on my laptop went from 0.8s to 0.6s
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-01-28
<Nafai> Hello from Lucid!
<Nafai> It boots way fast, great job guys
<Sarvatt> bootup times are just getting worse and worse here, 42 seconds on 1-21 and steadily rising to 1 minute 11 seconds today. guess I need to buy a SSD for this netbook :D
<seb128> do you have a bootchart of your boot?
<Sarvatt> http://sarvatt.com/downloads/asuka-lucid-20100127-1.png
<Amaranth> Sarvatt: you have to reboot twice after an upgrade :)
<seb128> hey Amaranth
<Amaranth> howdy
<seb128> it has been a while
<seb128> how are you?
<Amaranth> I've been going to bed at a proper time and thus missing you :)
<rickspencer3> Amaranth!
<Amaranth> good, doing some contract work on top of my day job, crazy busy
<rickspencer3> welcome back
<seb128> hehe
<rickspencer3> Nafai sweet
<Amaranth> one part of the contract work: make compiz start faster
<seb128> Sarvatt, try booting again, it was profiling on this one
<Amaranth> handy, that
<seb128> Amaranth, who contracted you for that?
<seb128> Amaranth, speaking of which do you still plan to work on cleaning things to install by default?
<Amaranth> hmm, don't really want to say right now
<seb128> k
<Amaranth> seb128: dunno if I'll have time for it any time soon
<seb128> I planned to look at that with mvo next week since you didn't reply to my pings from some weeks ago
<seb128> ok
<Amaranth> It's easy enough, just split the packaging into stuff we use + cube/rotate and stuff we don't
<seb128> right
<Amaranth> oh, and wobbly, need to keep wobbly in the default install
<Sarvatt> that might explain it, i dont think i've ever rebooted without having upgraded something inbetween unless I crashed..
<seb128> it's just that I didn't want to go through every .xml and .so to figure which ones are used
<Amaranth> I spent all my time on it making separate packages for everything
<seb128> especially if you did that already
<seb128> is there an easy way to list those used?
<Amaranth> $ gconftool-2 --get /apps/compiz/general/allscreens/options/active_plugins
<seb128> the file matches the gconf list?
<seb128> and there is no depends system or anything to take in consideration?
<Amaranth> yeah, fade plugin has libfade.so and fade.xml files, etc
<Amaranth> if there are dependencies we have those plugins loaded too so if you're just splitting it in half you don't need to care about those
<Amaranth> s/half/two packages/
<seb128> ok good
<seb128> I want a least to delete the not used one there to see what difference it makes on boot
<seb128> not used ones rather
<seb128> I expect there is several of those ;-)
<Amaranth> you can do that without doing any packaging work then, just remove all the lib*.so and *.xml files that aren't in that list and reboot a couple times :)
<Amaranth> probably gain you 0.5s
<seb128> yeah, I will do that
<seb128> ok, almost nothing then
<seb128> I'm wondering where those 10 seconds of cpu use go
<Amaranth> highest I could see would be 1 second
<Amaranth> probably plugins interacting with all these windows loading
<Amaranth> hack gnome-session to make compiz load last, see what happens
<seb128> we sort of do that now, well we don't load it first
<seb128> we load it as a standard application
<seb128> but I will try to delay it
<Amaranth> really it needs to load (and be done loading) right before xsplash goes away
<Amaranth> I was talking about that with keybuk
<Amaranth> If we have xsplash we can hide the fact that things are ugly while compiz is loading by making them talk
<seb128> well officially we don't need to speed compiz since it's too slow anyway and we changed targets
<seb128> but still would be nice to have faster desktop boot
<Amaranth> changed targets?
<seb128> boot target is une now
<Amaranth> ah
<Sarvatt> there we go, a little better that time. http://sarvatt.com/downloads/asuka-lucid-20100127-2.png   i think that solar plymouth theme is a little too nice for this atom cpu :D
<seb128> 'night everybody
<seb128> robert_ancell, I've accepted your ubuntu-desktop post and added you to the whitelist
<seb128> robert_ancell, quicker to reply there than by email ;-)
<djsiegel> TheMuso: did you find anything about about webkit accessibility?
<robert_ancell> seb128, thanks!
<seb128> np
<seb128> really off to bed this time ;-)
<seb128> 'night
<chrisccoulson> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, hi
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<robert_ancell> good
<hyperair> dpkg-deb: building package `gnome-power-manager' in `../gnome-power-manager_2.28.1-0ubuntu1.3_amd64.deb'
<hyperair> woo
<hyperair> pitti: ^^
<chrisccoulson> another gpm update? it's taking up all my bandwidth this week ;)
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: ;-) this is the final one.
<chrisccoulson> cool!
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: final one for the double suspend issue.
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: would you prefer i just paste the patch here or upload it to launchpad?
<chrisccoulson> i think it would be better in launchpad
<hyperair> okay then
 * hyperair reluctantly lets the huge bug page load
<Nafai> yay, lucid fixed one of my major complaints about the ubuntu desktop
<LLStarks> ArneGoetje, would package should i file that antialiasing issue against, fontconfig?
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: the patch is attached.
<chrisccoulson> hyperair - thanks
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to go to bed in a minute anyway, so i will look at it in the morning
<hyperair> sure
<ArneGoetje> LLStarks: if it's a general issue, yes. If it's only with some fonts, it might be a configuration issue in the font package.
<ArneGoetje> LLStarks: please also consider the application to play a role there. Please do test if it only affects one application or multiple or all.
<LLStarks> ArneGoetje, i'm a bit curious as to what ubuntu falls back on in firefox when tahoma fonts are called and ttf-tahoma-replacement is not installed.
<ArneGoetje> LLStarks: depends on which other fonts are installed on the system
<kenvandine> TheMuso, ping
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> hey there
<didrocks> salut seb128
<didrocks> Ã§a va ?
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> ouais, et toi ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va bien, couchÃ© tÃ´t ;)
<seb128> didrocks, lucky you ;-)
<seb128> hey slomo
<slomo> hi seb128
<seb128> slomo, did you read my comments about totem-pl-parser yesterday?
<didrocks> seb128: heh, I saw that you were still active at 01:40 ;)
<slomo> seb128: sorry for choosing a different package name than ubuntu, i wasn't expecting this to be in ubuntu already (i mean, i updated the package yesterday morning very few hours after the release)
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, I was out in the evening and did read bug emails to make sure I didn't break anything when coming back
<didrocks> ok :)
<seb128> slomo, we update some minutes after the tarballs if those are duing work hours ;-)
<seb128> slomo, no problem, it's just that the name you picked don't match the debian gir policy
<seb128> slomo, ie you didn't use the gir version there for example
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> (and upstream gir version is incorrect, we have a patch for this release which has been integrated upstream)
<didrocks> hey pitti
<seb128> hello pitti!
<pitti> crimsun: if we need to keep it, nevermind; I'll just try to trim it a little then
 * pitti waves bonjour to the French mafia
<slomo> seb128: the gir has no version... the only thing that was wrong was the '-' unless i misunderstood the policy
<slomo> seb128: which version did you add in ubuntu?
<seb128> slomo, the "no version" is an upstream bug that didrocks fixed in ubuntu and upstream git
<slomo> ok
<seb128> slomo, http://git.gnome.org/browse/totem-pl-parser/commit/?id=2d51c9ad64a0b4b6504d99e2f29716701bcf0c6b
<seb128> slomo, or https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=608176
<ubottu> Gnome bug 608176 in General "Gir file aren't properly generated" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<slomo> thanks
<seb128> np
<seb128> slomo, btw http://launchpadlibrarian.net/38478987/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.gstreamer0.10_0.10.25.2-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> slomo, known issue?
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100128-1.png
<seb128> pitti, any special change in that one?
<slomo> seb128: no, thanks
<pitti> seb128: just the daily; but I wanted to look at g-panel
<pitti> with yesterday's change
<seb128> pitti, doesn't seem to make a real difference
<pitti> *nod*
<seb128> still 7 seconds of desktop loading
<seb128> almost twice the budget
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> I'll try the new kernel
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> rather 8 seconds
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti - i've got something for you to try this morning. we discussed yesterday about starting gconfd from Xsession.d, so I hosted the work I initially did at http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisccoulson/desktop-startup-speed/crack/
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, a bit tired but good otherwise thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it's not packaged in any way at all, and the helper needs compiling
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm quite tired too this morning. we have a sick baby, so i didn't get much sleep last night
<seb128> oh :-(
<pitti> chrisccoulson: nice! will do
<chrisccoulson> pitti - cool, thanks!
<seb128> pitti, seems we won 1 seconds compared to yesterday though
<seb128> pitti, do you know what boot speed changes landed yesterday?
<seb128> out of the gnome-panel one
<pitti> seb128: not using gnome-wm any more
<pitti> that made a big difference
<seb128> pitti, that should was 2 days ago though no?
<seb128> pitti, it should have been in yesterday's chart of yours?
<pitti> hm, could be
<pitti> right, it was
<pitti> seb128: the new wncksync perhaps
<seb128> I'm just wondering if after all the gnome-panel did win some 0.1 seconds
<pitti> ah, no, that landed Tuesday evening, and was on yesterday's
<seb128> bootchart is not reliable enough to be affirmative on such differences
<pitti> *nod*
<seb128> so next win is the background caching
<seb128> I still need to investigate the nm-applet today
<seb128> and chrisccoulson's gconf change
<seb128> pitti, the "sh" process is not on today's daily btw
<pitti> seb128: it sometimes disappears in the noise
<seb128> ok
<pitti> gosh, is g-s-d still calling xkbcomp?
<seb128> pitti, it should not, why?
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/osiris-lucid-20100127-3.png
<seb128> pitti, it's probably coming from libxklavier
<chrisccoulson> it is
<chrisccoulson> xkl_config_get_keyboard
<chrisccoulson> oh, actually, that's not public
<chrisccoulson> it's xkl_xkb_activate_config_rec
<seb128> chrisccoulson, that one is not used in libgnomekbd or g-s-d though...
<pitti> hm, no difference with 2.6.32-12
<seb128> I've been trying to find which call lead to that without luck though
<chrisccoulson> hmmm
<pitti> chrisccoulson:
<pitti> old: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100128-1-2.6.32-12.png
<pitti> with your hack: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100128-gconf-xsession.d.png
<seb128> no win
<pitti> it increased the latency for the apps a tad (could also be noise, though), and there's still a slight CPU drop
<pitti> structually it worked, though
<pitti> I'll check what the difference is to drop sanity-check
<pitti> chrisccoulson: any chance we could sqeeze it before ssh-agent?
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100128-gconf-xsession.d-disabledsanitycheck.png
<pitti> this ^ already looks better
<seb128> seems to win 0.1 second?
 * pitti tries 91x11-gconfd-helper
<pitti> no real difference
<didrocks> seb128, pitti: wallpaper caching seems to work well, I'll do additional test this afternoon
 * didrocks gets in Paris to meet lool
<pitti> didrocks: wow!
<pitti> didrocks: where are you doing this? postinst magic? or at runtime?
<didrocks> pitti: runtime
 * didrocks back in a couple of hours
<pitti> o/
<pitti> didrocks: let's look over this when you are back; there are some gotchas that come to my mind
<baptistemm> hello
<pitti> eww, gst-plugins-bad now pulls in jack
<pitti> is that intended?
<seb128_> dunno
<chrisccoulson> pitti - just checking the scrollback
<chrisccoulson> (sorry, i was away from my desk)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - is this with my build of gconf too?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: no, stock lucid otherwise
<pitti> chrisccoulson: shall I reinstall your other packages again?
<chrisccoulson> i think i need to hack gnome-session to comment out the gconf_init bit, to stop it from spawning gconf-sanity-check
<pitti> I just chmodded that to 0
<chrisccoulson> also, gconfd has to be loaded with a working session bus, so it can't load before ssh-agent unfortunately
<seb128_> so compiz is much less busy when delayed
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I thought it just needs to be dbus-launch gconfhelper ssh-agent gnome-session ?
<seb128_> (just checking delay desktop boot on the mini to see how that changed)
<chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, we could do it that way. i think it is currently ssh-agent dbus-launch gcond-helper gnome-session isn't it?
<seb128_> seems quite some compiz work is due to things moving on screen
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I moved the gconfhelper to 91, that should have done it; no real difference in the chart, thuogh
<pitti> seb128_: ah, due to re-rendering?
<seb128_> pitti, that's what amaranth suggested
<seb128_> the compiz bar is also twice less busy when using a sleep 5 to start it
<seb128_> it takes less than 5 second then
<vuntz> pitti, chrisccoulson: may I ask why you still put ssh-agent everywhere? :-)
<seb128_> rather than some 9 seconds
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - good question ;)
<pitti> for the non-GNOME sessions and for people who prefer the openssh agent
<seb128_> vuntz, we don't, the script check if ssh-agent should be used or not
<vuntz> (not that it'd be a huge win, but well)
<pitti> seb128_: well, that was the plan, but I gave up on it
<vuntz> seb128_: ah, ok
<seb128_> vuntz, also the openssh maintainer argue than ssh-agent is robust compared to gnome-keyring
<seb128_> vuntz, so that we should make hard to opt gnome-keyring out
<pitti> since asking gconf whether gnome-keyring will have ssh agent support is more expensive than just starting it
<vuntz> pitti: so, if you're using GNOME, it's not possible to use the ssh-agent launched in the startup scripts
<seb128_> vuntz, not to mention features gnome-keyring lacks
<pitti> vuntz: if it was so easy..
<vuntz> ah, yes, unless you look at the gconf key
<vuntz> hrm
<pitti> vuntz: in reality, it's "if you are using gnome _and_ yuo did not disable the g-keyring gconf key"
<seb128_> vuntz, we were considering using ssh-agent instead of gnome-keyring as an agant
<seb128_> agent
<vuntz> pitti: indeed, I forgot about the gconf key
<pitti> vuntz: and since ssh-agent has to start before g-keyring, it becomes a game of looking into the future
<vuntz> on the other hand...
<vuntz> a workaround would be to have ssh-agent started by gnome-session in the initialization phase, and set the env var via the gnome-session dbus method
<vuntz> (using a wrapper app, I guess)
<vuntz> but then, might not be worth the 0.05s win
<vuntz> or whatever it is
<seb128_> we still need it to be started out of GNOME though
<vuntz> seb128_: why?
<pitti> XFCE and the like
<vuntz> ah, I misunderstood. Yes, of course
<pitti> although we could just package this script separately
<pitti> and pull it in with XFCE, etc.
<pitti> but not in UNE
<seb128_> would help those boxes with several desktops installed
<seb128_> like une session on ubuntu desktop
<vuntz> but yeah, in the end, it's probably not worth it, so just discard what I said for now ;-)
<pitti> by and large I think the "package separately" idea will work best
<seb128_> the easier would be to disable gnome-keyring agent and just use the ssh one everybody
<seb128_> one *for* everybody
<pitti> or that
<pitti> but you loose a lot of nice integration with that
<seb128_> I'm not sure how much the agent is "integrated"
<pitti> openssh's doesn't cache passphrases by default
<pitti> and you have no way to put it into your normal keyring, of course
<chrisccoulson> pitti - sorry, i didn't see the 3rd chart there when you dropped gconf-sanity-check
<seb128_> right...
<chrisccoulson> i just saw it now
<pitti> from my POV, g-keyring is so much nicer than the openssh one
<chrisccoulson> pitti - how are you measuring the improvement on the bootchart?
<seb128_> right
 * pitti reduces the gconf loading time by 10% with some silly seddery trick and wonders if it's worth it
<seb128_> what did you sed out?
<chrisccoulson> the red line doesnt seem to move, but g-s-d starts quite a bit earlier
<pitti> chrisccoulson: first, looking at the latency of the general app stage, and second looking at the time between the long gnome-session start line and the red "end" line
<pitti> seb128_: tabs, empty string default values, and mtime
<chrisccoulson> pitti - what about comments?
<pitti> what annoys me much more is that this has millions of locale specific defaults
<seb128_> I would have though that space, etc would win so much
<pitti> which would be handled much more elegantly with gettext
<seb128_> wouldn't
<pitti> seb128_: well, that alone reduces it from 2.2 to 1.8 MB
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it doesn't have any
<chrisccoulson> pitti - there's no short and long descriptions in the defaults?
<pitti> there are
<chrisccoulson> do we need them?
<pitti> hah, another such thing: %s/short_desc=""//g
<pitti> chrisccoulson: unfortunately yes
<chrisccoulson> :(
<pitti> I think the biggest potential win would be to throw out locale specific defualts and get them through gettext
<seb128_> then you would get the "load the mo files to get the value"..
<seb128_> which I'm not sure would turn to be a win
<pitti> that could be done on the client side only, though
<pitti> similar to the translated descriptiosn
<seb128_> well I though you didn't do it for the values to avoid the mo reading?
<pitti> I just didn't consider teh values at all back then
<seb128_> are you sure?
<pitti> I thought they were for real localized default values
<seb128_> I though we discussed that
<pitti> not for translated text strings
<pitti> seb128_: I'm not sure, no
<pitti> <entry name="description"
<pitti> <stringvalue>CD ìì¤ì
<pitti> [...]
<pitti> this is pure abuse of gconf
<pitti> having a gconf value being used as a three-line text value which is human visible
<seb128_> well usually translation of default are for specific usecases...
<seb128_> like gedit has a key with default encodings
<pitti> yeah, it does make sense for those
<seb128_> the one you describe seems a bug
<seb128_> do we have many of those?
<pitti> but gnome-media is really abusing it
<pitti> /usr/share/gconf/schemas/gnome-audio-profiles.schemas
<pitti> that's plain crazy
<seb128_> urg, yes
<pitti> seb128: moving away /usr/share/gconf/schemas/gnome-audio-profiles.schemas alone already saves 10%
<pitti> and reduces file size from 2.3 to 2.0 MB
<pitti> this might be worth fixing in the package itself
<seb128> what do you call "fix"?
<pitti> drop the audio profile descriptions from gconf
<seb128> to put it where?
<pitti> using gettext on the value in the app itself perhaps?
<seb128> pitti, well those profiles are used in different apps
<seb128> ie rhythmbox let you choose the profile to use on cd copies
<pitti> well, it was just an idea
<pitti> but this is not "configuration", it's a huge translation database
<pitti> anyway,just looking at the hogs here
<seb128> right, wrong use in any case, but I can understand why they do that
<pitti> with the easy seddery we already win 10%, so that might be worth doing
<seb128> should rather be a file on disk
<pitti> *nod*
<seb128> how much are we speaking about btw?
<seb128> gconf is 0.5s?
<pitti> with a libgnome-media API around
<seb128> so 10% is 50ms?
<pitti> somethign like this
<pitti> little effort, little gain kind of thing
<seb128> right, I was rather thinking about either it's worth breaking the profiles thing if that requires apps updates
<seb128> I'm trying to check if they use the libgnome-media lib to get those
<seb128> or if things get the gconf values directly
<pitti> the three compiz-*schemas are huge as well
<pitti> l -Sr /usr/share/gconf/schemas/
<pitti> ls -lSr /usr/share/gconf/schemas/
<pitti> sorry
 * pitti checks if compiz is installed by default
<seb128> tomboy too
<pitti> oh?
<pitti> oh, I purged it from my laptop, so I don't see it
 * pitti does on the mini
<seb128> pitti, the tomboy schemas seems to not be stripped from translations
<seb128> what build component does that again? cdbs
<seb128> tomboy doesn't use cdbs
<pitti> /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/langpack.mk
<pitti> GETTEXT_DOMAIN="$$DOMAIN" perl /usr/lib/cdbs/strip-schema.pl $$d > $$d.new; mv $$d.new $$d
<pitti> urgh
<pitti> indeed, tomboy should be fixed
<seb128> they use dh7
<pitti> seb128: you could just add the strip-schema.pl call to debian/rules manually?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> I will do that
<seb128> the .desktop doesn't have the gettext domain either
<seb128> we should make those cdbs magics work on dh7 too one day
<pitti> why does libcompizconfig0 depend on compiz-core?
<pitti> ah, nevermind; can be purgd along
 * pitti unseeds compiz from netbook then
<pitti> $ bzr commit -m 'drop compiz, we use mutter now'
<pitti> that was an easy one :-)
<seb128> does it make any difference on boot?
<pitti> twiddling thumnbs, waiting on bootchart
<seb128> we didn't want to have a GNOME session on UNE install?
<pitti> you can install it (apt-get install ubuntu-desktop)
<seb128> right, I meant by default
<pitti> didrocks: ^
<pitti> I don't konw
<seb128> I didn't use the une a lot before this cycle
<seb128> but they use to have a desktop switcher
<seb128> I know rick says he uses the GNOME mode to hack usually
<seb128> and the une mode for other things
<seb128> use -> used
<pitti> well, but structurally the "netbook" seed should stop pulling in compiz
<seb128> pitti, didrocks is not around I think, let him reply later
<pitti> if we want to add GNOME to the UNE build, it should be pulled in through the desktop seed
<seb128> he's having lunch with lool today iirc
<pitti> so I'm not actually sure whether that really dropped compiz
<seb128> ok
<pitti> but we didn't drop compiz from the netbook seed when changing from netbook-launcher to the mutter plugin
<seb128> still worth doing a chart without compiz
<kklimonda> pitti, is mutter going to replace both compiz and nautilus in lucid?
<pitti> seb128: nice one; gconf reduced to 60% after purging tomboy and compiz
<pitti> kklimonda: no, nautilus stays around as a file browser; it just won't render the desktop (as in previous UNEs)
<kklimonda> erm, I was thinking about metacity..
<kklimonda> my bad
<pitti> kklimonda: yes, mutter is a composite-enabled fork of metacity
<pitti> seb128: hmm
<pitti> seb128: WDYT about removing the locale defaults for locales which aren't actually available on the system?
<pitti> seb128: I thought about writing a "gconf-trim-defaults" script (via dpkg trigger) which removes the tabs, empty defaults, etc.; this could also filter out those localized default values which we don't need
<pitti> I'll write such a thing and see what difference it'll make
<pitti> ... after lunch
<chrisccoulson> pitti - could that not be added to whatever registers the schemas?
<chrisccoulson> rather than adding another script?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: could, yes
<pitti> gconf-schemas is python, but it calls gconftool
<pitti> and there it becomes hairy and requries touching C
<pitti> I'll see whether this will be easier, though
<pitti> it would be more elegant for sure
<seb128> pitti, sorry i was away for lunch
<seb128> pitti, could we split the .xml by locale as upstream is doing?
<seb128> pitti, would be even better than have several locales and having to rebuild the file on new locales install...
<seb128> you would read one .xml matching your locale only
<pitti> seb128: we already have per-locale files today
<pitti> hm, indeed that would be even better
<pitti> for me it parses /var/lib/gconf/defaults/%gconf-tree.xml first, then /var/lib/gconf/defaults/%gconf-tree-de.xml
<seb128> pitti, shouldn't all those translations be stripped from the default one?
<seb128> I would expect that one to be C locale...
<pitti> it is C, yes
<seb128> but it has defaults for all locales?
<pitti> seb128: the only stripping that we do during build right now is localized descriptions (since we can use gettext on them)
<seb128> but it has defaults for all locales?
<seb128> grrr
<seb128> (sorry focus)
<pitti> I don't know why the locale defaults end up in the C file
<pitti> I'll investigate this
<seb128> pitti, right but upstream does do those by locale xml?
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> it would be sense to have the defaults in the corresponding xml
<seb128> ie the -de.xml for the german defaults
<seb128> and not on the C one
<pitti> agreed
<pitti> meh
<pitti> (process:19416): GConf-CRITICAL **: Failed to load file "/var/lib/gconf/defaults/%gconf-tree-de.xml": Line 162 character 1: Element <default> is not allowed below <local_schema>
<pitti> seems the %gconf-tree-locale.xml file is only for descriptions??
<seb128> vuntz, ^ do you know?
<pitti> parse_local_schema_child_element() does have a case for <default>, though
<pitti> and ./backends/markup-tree.c only writes <default> tags if (!is_locale_file ...)
<seb128> pitti, oh, I just found an apport bug
<seb128> pitti, oh, I just found an apport bug but I'm not sure how you want to fix it
<seb128> pitti, the .desktop has no gettext domain or translations stripped
<seb128> pitti, that's because the langpack magic looks for GETTEXT_PACKAGE in po/Makefile
<seb128> which you don't have
<seb128> either create one with "GETTEXT_PACKAGE="apport""
<pitti> hm, that .desktop is just for the mimetype link, though; does it need to be translated at all?
<seb128> or add debian/rules lines to do the change
<seb128> pitti, it's listed in nautilus context menu when right clicking on a .crash
<seb128> open with "name"
<pitti> ah, I see
<seb128> do you want a bug about that?
<pitti> seb128: I'll just manually add it to the desktop file in the ubuntu branch
<seb128> it's a minor issue
<seb128> but I was checking what .desktop miss the gettext domain and stripping
<seb128> I've some 18 of those there
<seb128> I will fix some like tomboy and file some bugs
<seb128> firefox and openoffice are buggy too
<dpm> seb128, here are some more that the translations team has been collecting -> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bugs?field.tag=needs-desktop-entry-i18n
<dpm> yeah, ff and oo are in there, too
<seb128> I see you have the firefox and openoffice ones
<dpm> :)
<seb128> any reason scim is still in main? I though we used ibus now...
<pitti> seb128: committed, thanks for spotting
<seb128> pitti, thanks!
<seb128> pitti, ArneGoetje: ^ scim should go in universe?
<pitti> seb128: ideally yes
<seb128> but in practice there is an issue?
<pitti> perhaps we kept it in main for karmic for the transition
<pitti> seb128: deferring to ArneGoetje  about that
<seb128> ok
<seb128> dpm, btw you want to open tasks on the corresponding ubuntu packages if you want somebody in the distribution to ever read those...
<seb128> dpm, I did that now for you
<seb128> I assigned the firefox and openoffice ones to our team too
<dpm> thanks seb128!
<seb128> pitti, should we move ekiga to universe?
<pitti> seb128: fine for me; not really maintained anyway, and it won't disappear either way
<dpm> seb128, on the ones I filed, I wasn't quite sure which was the correct package to open the bug task against - I'll open them on the ubuntu pkgs from now on, thanks for the heads up!
<seb128> dpm, you're welcome
<seb128> pitti, right but it might be easier to find a motu to work on it
<pitti> seb128: so, please go ahead and unseed then
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> didrocks, back from lunch?
<pitti> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2302656 2010-01-28 14:51 %gconf-tree.xml
<pitti> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1486799 2010-01-28 14:51 %gconf-tree.xml.new
<pitti> now, not too bad for such a gross hack
<didrocks> seb128: right, finishing to backlog :)
<pitti> hey didrocks, enjoyed an elaborate Parisian lunch?
<didrocks> pitti: italian food in fact :)
<didrocks> but it was good ;)
<seb128> didrocks, after a 3 hours lunch time for a nap now right? ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, could you push the work you did on tomboy the other day? I've other changes to do on it
<seb128> didrocks, I think you said you started on the version update
<didrocks> seb128: not really :-) the longest part was to go to Paris and to come back (and also, to take some dollars in La Poste)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> another of those people taking money before leaving! ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: didn't have the time to work on the update. It was failing and I delayed it (huats was supposed to tackle it)
<didrocks> seb128: right :)
<seb128> didrocks, ok, it's not failing there, so doing it, thanks
<didrocks> pitti: seb128: concerning your question about GNOME desktop session in UNE
<didrocks> seb128: oh? really? perfect soâ¦ strange, maybe a bad lib :/
<seb128> didrocks, you probably didn't update the build-depends for the mono changes
<seb128> they put the .pc in new binaries
<didrocks> seb128: I guess something related to that, right
<Laney> you should look at what we did to tomboy in debian
<didrocks> so, there will be a GNOME session available (gnome.desktop is shipped by gdm package)
<didrocks> but it won't have all ubuntu-dekstop seed package (and so, no more compiz if we drop it from UNE seed)
<didrocks> people will have to install ubuntu-desktop to get those back
<seb128> Laney, I'm looking at that and fixing it too, the switch from cdbs to dh7 broke all the translations magics be have
<seb128> be -> we
<seb128> Laney, some for f-spot
<didrocks> maybe, we can notify the first time the user "you don't have all apps from ubuntu-desktop full experience, do you want to install them?"
<seb128> same
<Laney> seb128: didn't we add that in debian?
<seb128> Laney, you added the template update
<seb128> Laney, not the "add the ubuntu gettext domain" not the "strip translations from the desktop entry"
<seb128> Laney, not the "clean the schemas"
<Laney> ok well if you have not-too-intrusive patches then we can take them
<seb128> I doubt you want to add ubuntu gettext domains in debian...
<seb128> I'm pondering switching it back to cdbs in ubuntu
<Laney> those are handled transparently by cdbs?
<seb128> yes
<Laney> well i would wonder if the same cannot be done for dh
<seb128> it can probably
<seb128> but until somebody steps for that...
<Laney> it would probably be less long term work
<Laney> than merging all the time
<seb128> we don't need to merge
<seb128> we usually have newer version than debian anyway
<seb128> but well, would be nice in any case yes
<czajkowski> Could anyone explain - why does Software Centre present a "different version" than apt-get or an actual package GUI ?
<czajkowski> to me ?
<seb128> czajkowski, hi, what version of ubuntu and do you have a specific example?
<pitti> nice, that script shrinks %gconf-tree.xml from 1.7 MB to 910 kB
<seb128> pitti, waouh
<czajkowski> seb128: Karmic fresh install
<pitti> seb128: I added the trimming to gconf-schemas now
<pitti> seb128: it just means that I need to add a --register-all call to locale-gen when adding a new locale
<seb128> pitti, did you measure how much speed win that makes?
<seb128> pitti, do you still get the correct default?
<pitti> seb128: getting to that now
<seb128> ok
<pitti> $ gconftool -g  /desktop/gnome/keybindings/onscreenkeyboard/name
<pitti> that's a good test case
<pitti> it has localized defaults
<seb128> I get an english screen there
<pitti> "Bildschirmtastatur ein- oder ausschalten" for me
<pitti> perhaps there's no French translation for that one
<seb128> right
<seb128> the media profiles you listed before work too for testing
<pitti> yep
<seb128> bah, strip-schema.pl is in cdbs
<pitti> ok, so current stripping on my laptop reduces parsing from 0.107137 to 0.0709558 s
<seb128> I'm pondering adding a cdbs build-depends to tomboy
<seb128> or doing a local copy
<pitti> sure
<seb128> I think I will go with the build-depends
<pitti> but on the netbook the cpu is slower
 * pitti tries another change
<seb128> that's hot cache right?
<pitti> right
<pitti> pure CPU
<seb128> is there a way to empty cpu cache without disk cache?
<pitti> "cpu cache"?
<pitti> ok, removing all the \n just reduces it to 0.0695608
<pitti> not really worth it
<seb128> well cpu have caching too
<pitti> well, but I restart the process
<pitti> (gconf)
<pitti> I don't think CPU caches are that good
<pitti> so, confirmed to work, off to doing a bootchart
<seb128> I think they are quite useful
<seb128> hot cache benchmarks are far from first run ones
<seb128> ie gnome-panel starts in 0.6 seconds there
<seb128> and it takes over 3 seconds of cpu use on boot
<pitti> isn't that more because it shares the CPU with a bazillion other processes?
<seb128> no
<seb128> I made a session entry which runs gnome-panel and not gnome-session
<seb128> so there is only it in the session
<chrisccoulson> good afternoon everyone
<czajkowski> seb128: any thoughts ?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: wb
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti
<seb128> czajkowski, no, you didn't reply to my questions though
<czajkowski> I did
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey again
<czajkowski> 14:01 < czajkowski> seb128: Karmic fresh install
<seb128> czajkowski, what about the "do you have a specific example"?
<czajkowski> didn't see that. I don't it was someone who asked me who's just installed it on a dell machine and I don't have clean install to see. just wondered did anyone know off hand.
<czajkowski> seb128: sorry.
<seb128> I don't know then but maybe mvo does
 * pitti grins at http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100128-optimized-gconf-defaults.png
<pitti> chrisccoulson, seb128 ^
<pitti> much better
<seb128> nice
<chrisccoulson> pitti - what did you change?
<mvo> czajkowski: that sounds like a bug, what version number are there?
<seb128> pitti, seems another 0.3 seconds win
<seb128> so we are down to 7 seconds login
<czajkowski> mvo: I can try and find out
<seb128> Laney, did you send your tomboy .pc change upstream btw?
<Laney> no, I mentioned it in IRC afaik but didn't file a report yet
<seb128> could you do that?
<Laney> its on the stack
<Laney> i should make that into a queue one day...
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: trimmed %gconf-tree.xml
 * pitti packages the stuff now
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, working with Gwibber via desktopcouch is incredibly easy
<rickspencer3> last night I was easily able to pull all the images in the streams in
<chrisccoulson> pitti - awesome. so, you didn't need to make any actual changes to gconf itself?
<rickspencer3> tonight I will use the protocol settings to go up to facebook and pull down albums and such
<pitti> chrisccoulson: no; I'm very hesitant to doing that, since it will immediately also apply to user's gconf, etc.
<pitti> chrisccoulson: and I don't want the locale sorting there
<pitti> like calling locale -a, etc.
<pitti> or suppressing them
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it's not a very clean solution, but then again gconf is an evolutionary dead-end anyway
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, awesome!
<pitti> so hacking it is bearable, I think
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, desktopcouch really makes things far simpler
<chrisccoulson> thats good anyway, that's the one thing that was delaying the whole session from loading
<pitti> chrisccoulson: do you think it's worth doing another chart with your patched gconf/gsd _and_ the early start of gconf?
<pitti> (recent chart reverted both of that, for better comparability)
<tseliot> pitti: shall I merge all the things from jockey trunk or only my commit with the ubuntu branch?
<pitti> tseliot: are there so many more? yes, a general merge is easier
<tseliot> pitti: a few kde and test related things
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it would be worth doing it with the patched gconf and gconf early start stuff
<pitti> seb128, chrisccoulson: AFAICS that's about as much as we can do with an adequate amount of effort, so I close the WI for now
<pitti> we can revisit it again later on if necessary
<seb128> pitti, on gconf you mean?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ack
<seb128> pitti, or on boot sequence out of optimizing code now?
<pitti> seb128: yes; I don't know what else to take out, and I'm not yet despearate enough to write a new gconf backend just yet
<pitti> seb128: with a different file format we'll still need some CPU time to load everything
<pitti> chrisccoulson: will do now
<pitti> chrisccoulson: that will introduce the hardcoded gnome-wm file again, won't it? or should I just try with the updated gconf package and leave g-s-d alone?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i'd forget about gnome-session and g-s-d for now, as I don't think they'll give that much win with the gconf changes
<chrisccoulson> it would be good to see if starting gconfd earlier helps though (and not calling gconf-sanity-check)
<pitti> g-sanity-check is still disabled here
<pitti> do we really need to run it?
<pitti> i. e. does it keep the user from running a session if something is damaged, etc.?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - all it does is pop up an error dialog if the configuration sources are broken or it can't do file locking etc
<chrisccoulson> it doesn't block the session from loading, and the error message isn't useful anyway
<pitti> hm, I guess we should continue to install it
<pitti> and then perhaps just not call it from g-s
<pitti> so that you at least can run it manually for debugging?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it only runs properly before gconfd is started (ie, it doesn't do a lot when it's already running)
<chrisccoulson> so, once gconfd is started, it's no use really
<pitti> so with the 56gconf Xsession.d script it's just a waste either way?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it is
<seb128> bah
<seb128> I'm wondering what buildds are so busy with today
<seb128> uploads on i386 get over 10 hours delay now
<seb128> before starting build
<pitti> openjdk, linux
<pitti> https://edge.launchpad.net/builders
<pitti> and now OO.o
<chrisccoulson> there was an openoffice upload 21 hours ago too
<chrisccoulson> ah
<pitti> it was blocked by a MIR
<chrisccoulson> oh yeah, openoffice is currently building
<pitti> I promoted that package some 4 hours ago
<pitti> chrisccoulson: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100128-optimized-gconf-defaults.png
<pitti> ^ old
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100128-gconf-xsession.d-disabledsanitycheck-optimized-gconf-defaults.png
<pitti> ^ with your hacked gconf and early gconf loading
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, it seems to make it slower
<pitti> it doesn't really seem to help indeed
<pitti> and it doesn't help to fill in the empty CPU slot either :(
<pitti> we just get a new I/O wait spike
<pitti> I wonder why
<pitti> in gnome-session
 * lool is finally home
<rickspencer3> hi lool, welcome home!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: want me to include your gconf patch in my upload?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: that by itself shouldn't make a big difference, since gconfd is triggered on first use anyway
<lool> asac: So didrocks has the board + a SATA 2.5" hard disk + a SATA cable; packed in a marvell box with foam
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i don't think it's worth including it yet until i understand why it's not making any difference
<pitti> chrisccoulson: but it doesn't hurt either
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok
<pitti> then I'll just upload the %gconf-tree.xml deflating for now
<lool> asac: The hard disk probably has an installed system; feel free to wipe it
<pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks a lot so far! (don't worry, we'll crack this nut)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm still confused what the 0.5 second gap is where gnome-sesion appears to be doing nothing
<chrisccoulson> the gap wasn't shown on the profiling work i did, and i'm convinced it's actually not really gnome-session yet at that point (that bar becomes gnome-session at some point, but doesn't start life as that)
<asac> lool: you rock!!!
<seb128> pitti, useful hint from rickspencer3, you can change the mini fn keys behaviour in the bios to do fn directly
<pitti> chrisccoulson: the gnome-session bar starts out as ssh-agent; couln't it be that?
<seb128> without to use the fn key
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i'm fairly sure what happens, but didn't you already profile ssh-agent?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: gnome-session starts right at the time when the ssh-agent process starts on the chart
<pitti> ssh-agent initializes, forks, and execs g-s in the parent
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that seems to be the case
<pitti> so it seems g-s is having its small CPU blip right at the start
<chrisccoulson> (although, it's actually ssh-agent -> dbus-launch -> gnome-session)
<chrisccoulson> but dbus-launch fork's and exec's so quickly that it doesnt have any effect
<pitti> ah, right
<pitti> I'm off for some 30 minutes for some fresh air and buying new printer toner
<chrisccoulson> pitti - the small CPU blip is expected as it loads the autostart files
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, and a program which doesn't even do such a small blip is probably not worth having in the first place :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, definately :)
<chrisccoulson> ssh-agent isn't taking 0.5 seconds to fork is it?
<pitti> it's not that much
<chrisccoulson> so, that bar must be starting life as something else
<pitti> I did a comparison without it yesterday, and it's impact is below the noise level
<chrisccoulson> perhaps something gdm related?
<pitti> I don't truly understand why we have the ssh-agent offset, but g-s-d doesn't start any earlier when removing ssh-agent
<chrisccoulson> yeah, so i think we're looking at the wrong thing then
<chrisccoulson> that process must start life as something other than ssh-agent
<pitti> 90consolekit should be intert
<pitti> inert
<pitti> there's dbus-launch
<pitti> chrisccoulson: perhaps it's just the general shellery from Xsession.d/* ?
<pitti> that calls some programs as well
<pitti> tests, stats, readlink, etc.
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'll try removing xsession.d/* and check its impact when I'm back home
 * pitti -> really out now
<chrisccoulson> pitti - so, that bar actually starts out as gdm-session-worker
<chrisccoulson> the delay could be there
<chrisccoulson> asac - did you have a look through the GVFS diff you attached to bug 512959?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 512959 in gvfs "nautilus assert failure: *** stack smashing detected ***: nautilus terminated" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512959
<chrisccoulson> asac - this looks wrong to me: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/364651/
<chrisccoulson> "current" isn't an array of strings
<chrisccoulson> oh, hang on
<chrisccoulson> it is
<chrisccoulson> the diff is confusing though without looking at the whole file
<asac> chrisccoulson: i just made the diff
<asac> yeah
<asac> that looked suspicious to me on a quick glance too
<chrisccoulson> i don't think that's the issue though
<asac> what does  meta_tree_lookup_string do ?
<chrisccoulson> "current" is defined twice in the same file, not very far apart (once as a string, and then again as a string array a bit further down), but i don't think that's the issue
<seb128> not easy to say what the issue is without a correct stacktrace
<seb128> the bug stacktrace has only 3 ?? in libc...
<didrocks> pitti: wallpaper cache is now ready and warning cleaned :) You talked about some gotchas to think about, what are they?
<seb128> didrocks, do you need patch review?
<seb128> or did pitti do that already for you?
<didrocks> seb128: he didn't yet, if you want, let me make a final test before pastebinit somewhere
<seb128> ok
<seb128> didrocks, what gotchas are you talking about?
<didrocks> seb128: don't know, just backlogged and see "pitti | didrocks: let's look over this when you are back; there are some gotchas that come to my mind"
<seb128> ok
<asac> chrisccoulson: i think i need to get the full code to understand what might be problematic
<asac> chrisccoulson: what is in gvfs-common?
<asac> maybe we can narrow it down a bit like that
<asac> libgvfscommon i think
<seb128> asac, can somebody maybe get a stracktrace?
<asac> of a stack smack? thats probably a bad one
<asac> but sure
 * asac forwards
<seb128> well valgrind log would be useful
<seb128> but apparently you don't have valgrind there
<seb128> not sure what we can get from a stacktrace but worth looking
<chrisccoulson> the changes in libgvfscommon are minimal
<chrisccoulson> in that delta
<rickspencer3> desktoppers ... hey ... if you are attending the sprint next week, please add goals to the wiki
<rickspencer3> it's looking a bit slim atm
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, bryceh, ccheney, didrocks, kenvandine, pitti, seb128 ^
<rickspencer3> who did I orget?
<rickspencer3> Riddell, ^
<rickspencer3> tseliot, ^
<kenvandine> ok
<didrocks> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/364665/
<didrocks> rickspencer3: ok, will do
<seb128> didrocks, you can use g_build_filename rather there
<didrocks> seb128: ok, changing that
<Nafai> where are you guys sprinting?
<rickspencer3> Nafai Portland, OR
<seb128> didrocks, one issue is that we don't do clean caches there
<didrocks> seb128: right, I was targetting that one second attempt, as I don't think that we'll have too many file from user
<seb128> one other issue is that not every api customer might want that
<didrocks> seb128: another issue is that we cache thumbnails too
<seb128> should probably require a new api or adding a parameter
<didrocks> hum, a switch?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> though adding a switch would mean breaking abi...
<seb128> I start wondering if that's specific enough to the wallpaper case to be on the g-s-d side
<seb128> could be nice to check maybe with vuntz what he thinks as upstream there
<seb128> vuntz, ^ any opinion if background image caching should be done in gnome-bg?
<huats> does anyone running karmic on amd64 experience firefox crashes after a few minutes ?
<seb128> not me
<qense> not here as well
<hyperair> not me either
<huats> pfff I don't understand then
<hyperair> but then i'm using the daily firefox.
<huats> thanks everyone
<om26er> I have seen many empathy bugs assigned to ubuntu-desktop even if they are upstream. so when triaging an empathy bug should I assign them to ubuntu desktop?
<seb128> huats, well I'm neither using karmic nor amd64 so I can't confirm either way
<huats> seb128, and btw I am ready for some updates
<huats> I'll have a look at the page
<seb128> huats, you can do gnome-menus if you want
<huats> ok I am it then
<seb128> huats, how are you btw? is everybody doing fine?
<huats> seb128, everyone is great !
<huats> :)
<huats> I am just back home :)
<huats> thanks !
<seb128> good to know ;-)
<huats> yep :D
<seb128> don't feel forced to work on updates
<seb128> you probably have plenty to do out of computer work atm
<didrocks> seb128: new version available at http://paste.ubuntu.com/364677/ using g_build_filename and fixing a memleak
<pitti> re
<pitti> seb128, didrocks: gotchas> like, if you generate the cache as part of g-s-d, you'll have two effects:
<pitti> 1) you won't benefit from ureadahead (since that will read the big file, not the small cached one)
<seb128> pitti, wb
<huats> seb128, actually I do have a lot to do, but I am really happy to find some little time to do some updates...
<pitti> 2) every use needs its own cache file
<chrisccoulson> huats - you have a baby now?
<pitti> 3) it clutters the home dir (but that's the least of my concerns)
<huats> YES !
<seb128> huats, ok ;-)
<huats> chrisccoulson, a lille guy
<chrisccoulson> huats - congratulations :)
<Tm_T> huats: noooooooo!
<pitti> huats: oh, congratulations!
<didrocks> pitti: right, it's currently at ~/.cache/wallpaper for every users
<huats> theo is born last week exactly :)
<seb128> pitti, about 2) the change is to gnome-desktop gnome-bg api
<Tm_T> huats: congrats (:
<seb128> pitti, but as said before I think we need to add a flag for cache use rather than make every client do caching automatically
<huats> thanks everyone
<Tm_T> huats: I have little over 1-year old daughter here and have to say this baby ate my productivity
<pitti> so my original idea was to ship a pre-generated 1024x600 image (since you need to do clipping etc. as well), and introduce a new gconf lookup for that (backgrounds/<resolution>/{path,size,...}
<pitti> didrocks: could we modify your patch to first look for $FILENAME_1024x600.png first before looking for $FILENAME ?
<seb128> pitti, I don't like that much
<pitti> didrocks: this would avoid my three points, could be done in postinst, and probably won't change your code much
<seb128> pitti, the pre-generated image will work for one screen config and one image
<pitti> and it doesn't need to be done at runtime
<seb128> pitti, ie it's purely for benchmark but not much for real world benefit
<pitti> seb128: well, but without ureadahead you reintroduce I/O again
<seb128> doesn't that include user datas?
<seb128> like gconf dir, etc?
<pitti> seb128: the postinst could look up the current resolution and generate the image for that one?
<pitti> seb128: probably; but you generate it too late
<pitti> seb128: when ureadahead collector runs first, then you don't have a cache yet
<seb128> pitti, do you know many users using the default pre-installed background?
<pitti> you are just building it
<pitti> seb128: I don't know, no
<seb128> I don't think I know anybody not changing the background
<seb128> not just on ubuntu
<pitti> seb128: but what's wrong with additionally looking for /usr/share/filename_resolution.png and using it if it exists?
<pitti> seb128: it doesn't preclude looking for it in ~/.cache as well
<seb128> but it's something people tend to set to something personal or something they like
<seb128> nothing
<seb128> it justs seems to me a waste of CD space to put a special case image there
<pitti> it's 30 KB..
<seb128> still we will get people asking to get a <their_screen_setting> one there too
<pitti> but well, we can certainly avoid shipping it
<seb128> because why only x600
<seb128> why not 1028x768
<seb128> etc
<didrocks> (also, we should take the transformation effect in the filename)
<pitti> hm, so how can we trigger an ureadahead update then..
<vuntz> seb128: I'm really not the right person for the GnomeBG stuff. You should ask halfline
<seb128> vuntz, ok
<seb128> to avoid the user dir cluttering we could save one filename only
<seb128> ie caching only the current wallpaper
<didrocks> seb128: doesn't work for slideshow
<seb128> I would argue that slideshow are a special case and it's fine if they are not cached
<pitti> don't worry about slideshow
<didrocks> ok, so, removing everything but the last one?
<seb128> I would rather have .cache/wallpaper.jpg
<seb128> or .cache/wallpaper as the image
<seb128> and cache whatever is in gconf key there
<seb128> and make g-s-d read it
<pitti> like .cache/warty-final-ubuntu_1024x600.png ?
<pitti> (you need to remember file and resolution, in case you change it)
<didrocks> pitti: it's already the case
<didrocks> pitti: filename + resolution + transformation type
<pitti> didrocks: nice
<seb128> hum right
<didrocks> but need to remove previous one when updating
<didrocks> (and also, fix the thumbnails caching)
<seb128> starts sounding complicated
<didrocks> right
<pitti> didrocks: so you already implemented that now?
<didrocks> pitti: right, http://paste.ubuntu.com/364677/
<pitti> didrocks: so, looks correct to me (apart from the indentation problem in get_wallpaper_cache_filename()
<didrocks> pitti: oh right
<pitti> I'm still unsure how to solve the ureadahead integration
<didrocks> but still, this clutter .cache/wallpaper
<seb128> I'm a bit concerned by the lack of flag to turn that on though
<seb128> not sure if that api has other "customers"
<seb128> and if they want their datas to be cached
<seb128> it should be an opt-in by the client maybe?
<pitti> this should perhaps be added to an upstream bug and discussed there first?
<seb128> yes
<pitti> introducing the concept of different resolutions into the API does seem to make sense to me
<seb128> didrocks, or maybe try #gnome-hackers, halfline is there usually
<pitti> it's not that easy to have a bg image which suits a netbook as well as a 1920x1600 screen
<seb128> right
<seb128> pitti, I was suggesting a flag for turning caching on or not
<didrocks> seb128: ok, I will, just fix that tab stuff first
<pitti> didrocks: merci for working on this!
<didrocks> pitti: you're welcome :)
<didrocks> ok, tabs fixed
<mvo> seb128: does the recent gstreamer upload require a rebuild or upload of some of the plugins as well ? it appears that the upgrade currently wants to remove sound-juicer for some gstreamer dependencies
<seb128> mvo, it conflicts on gst-plugins-base not current yes
<seb128> mvo, it conflicts on gst-plugins-base not current yes
<seb128> ups
<mvo> ok, if its a known issue, no problem
<seb128> mvo, and the buildd got DoSed meanwhile by 2 openoffice + 1 openjdk builds
<mvo> heh :)
<seb128> and we only have 3 i386 buildds
<mvo> so its waiting in the queue?
<seb128> it should be building now
<seb128> openoffice failed to build after 6 hours
<mvo> cool, thanks
<seb128> ;-)
<mvo> haha
<seb128> mvo, you're welcome
<rickspencer3> is Amaranth_ around?
<Amaranth_> sort of
<rickspencer3> wondering if we should close out the bug task on bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/410407
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 410407 in flashplugin-nonfree "Clicking on items in Flash player does nothing [READ DESCRIPTION]" [High,Confirmed]
<Amaranth> iz gtk boog :)
<Amaranth> or flash, dunno
<rickspencer3> hmm
<Amaranth> mozilla is having the same problem now  that they do out of process plugins
<rickspencer3> it's got lots of "gravity"
<Amaranth> GDK_NATIVE_WINDOWS fixes it
<rickspencer3> Amaranth, is it possible to fix in the distro?
<Amaranth> sure, if you patch everything that uses flash to use GDK_NATIVE_WINDOWS either for the whole app or for the flash part (if they run it out of process)
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> that sounds technically possible, but not too feasible
<Amaranth> Otherwise since we don't have the source to flash it's rather hard to figure out why gtk's client side windows break it
<Amaranth> chrome/chromium already use GDK_NATIVE_WINDOWS when loading flash so you just have to do nspluginwrapper, firefox, epiphany, etc :)
<Amaranth> you may only have to do nspluginwrapper and firefox 3.6, actually
<Amaranth> err, no, 3.6 doesn't do plugins that way
<Amaranth> so hopefully just nspluginwrapper
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> seems to be marked Invalid on all packages in any case
<rickspencer3> except flash-plugin-nonfree, of course
<seb128> it's technically a flash bug
<Amaranth> and gtk and flash
<rickspencer3>  thanks Amaranth
<seb128> Amaranth, hey
<rickspencer3> ah yes
<seb128> Amaranth, so you were right, delaying compiz from some seconds make it much less busy
<Amaranth> thought so
<seb128> Amaranth, cleaning the .xml and .so makes no difference
<Amaranth> hrm, that sucks
<seb128> Amaranth, still it's quite slow, almost 5 seconds delayed after everything else
<Amaranth> guess protobuf is very efficient
<seb128> but that's better than the 9 seconds otherwise
<pitti> seb128: delaying by how much?
<pitti> i. e. does it literally end at the same time if you delay it by 4 s?
<pitti> just has a more compact CPU usage?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> between 3 and 5 seconds I tried
<pitti> seb128: FYI, deferring g-screensaver buys .1 to .2 s, will do tomorrow
<seb128> 3 seconds is a bit too early
<seb128> 5 seconds is after other busy things but doesn't change the boot mark then
<seb128> pitti, ok
<pitti> that's only for the mini platform, though
<pitti> would be interesting to see how that performs on my slow disk (the other extreme)
<pitti> seb128: did you just add a sh -c and sleep to the .desktop?
<seb128> no, to the gnome-wm command
<pitti> ah, good idea
 * pitti -> dinner, bbl
 * seb128 sport and dinner
<seb128> bbl too
<rickspencer3> pedro_, hi
<rickspencer3> seems this bug has lots of gravity:
<rickspencer3> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/404351
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 404351 in ubuntuone-client "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in exit()" [Undecided,Invalid]
<rickspencer3> anything we can do to help it along?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i see you're deferring gnome-screensaver
<chrisccoulson> you just going to use a sleep for now?
<chrisccoulson> ah, you've disappeared already
<pedro_> rickspencer3, well there's no clear way on how to reproduce the issue, we thought it was an ubuntuone-client issue but it wasn't
<pedro_> rickspencer3, seems to only affect karmic though
<pedro_> rickspencer3, and we don't have a new report about it since 2009-12-10
<rickspencer3> pedro_, should we close the bug then?
<pedro_> rickspencer3, i can ask again to the reporters if they are able to reproduce it with latest packages, maybe it's fixed now
<pedro_> rickspencer3, let's ask first, i'll do that
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> if it's not going to get fixed we should mark it as such
<rickspencer3> if it's not an issue anymore, we should definately mark it as such ;)
<pedro_> totally agreed ;-)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I thought about adding a --delay option, and call nice(10) in it
<pitti> chrisccoulson: to avoid having yet another shell/sleep invocation
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'll disappear for dinner in a bit again, so far it was just prep; but it's in the oven now :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i think for now you should probably go with the sleep, and i will implement a proper X-GNOME-Autostartdelay option for the autostart files
<chrisccoulson> sometime over the weekend
<pitti> chrisccoulson: so, external sleep and patch it to nice?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, can do
<pitti> ok, I'll go with that then
<pitti> chrisccoulson: but it's not that urgent, I can as well wait for your X-GNOME-AutostartDelay to land
<chrisccoulson> i'll work on implementing a proper key for autostart delay, so we can mass-convert all of our autostart apps which have a delay to use the new key, rather than spawning a shell
<pitti> \o/
 * pitti hugs chrisccoulson
 * chrisccoulson hugs pitti
<pitti> kenvandine: do you know whether there was some investigation about why indicator-{messages,applet,applet-session} burning so much CPU?
<kenvandine> pitti, at start time?
<pitti> yes
<kenvandine> tedg was going to add some instrumentation code
<kenvandine> not sure if he has though
<jcastro> qense: hey, jono and I were thinking a hack day for app indicators would be a good idea, interested?
<qense> jcastro: Sure, sounds neat. HackDay!
<jcastro> next week we'll figure out a day, etc.
<qense> Maybe we should collect a list of applications that still need support on the beforehand.
<qense> jcastro: ok
<jcastro> qense: we used source.debian.net to find things using GtkStatusIcon, but it seems to be down right now
<qense> yep, times out here
<qense> What about sending a mail to the devel-discuss maillist with a request for suggestions?
<Burgundavia> anybody around to talk about artwork in Lucid? is for the official book
<jcastro> qense: I'm going to grep through the archive first
<jcastro> qense: we'll do a call for help as a last resort
<Burgundavia> win 3
<qense> jcastro: sounds good
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - there?
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: yep
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - do you remember reviewing a patch I wrote for gnome-session a while ago, to lazy-initialize dk-power?
<chrisccoulson> this patch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-session/ubuntu/annotate/head%3A/debian/patches/21_dkp_start_on_demand.patch
<chrisccoulson> i seem to remember that you had some concerns with it
<vuntz> I remember it
<vuntz> but I don't remember what I thought of it :-)
<chrisccoulson> i think you were concerned that it's too easy to forget to call manager_ensure_dkp_client
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: yep
<vuntz> that's it
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - i'd like to try and tidy it up, but i'm not sure how to address that concern, short of creating a new class for fetching information from dk-power (eg, a GsmDkpower class, or something similar)
<chrisccoulson> but that seems a bit overkill
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: was wondering about a new class too
<chrisccoulson> untz - i don't mind doing that then
<chrisccoulson> oops
<chrisccoulson> s/untz/vuntz
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: maybe talk to hughsie to see what he thinks
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i can do
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: maybe he'll be willing to make the DkpClient object more flexible
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that might be a better idea
<chrisccoulson> ie, only fetch the properties from the daemon when you first try to get them
<pitti> good night everyone
<didrocks> good night pitti!
<seb128> good night pitti
<didrocks> well, time to go to bed :)
<didrocks> have a good night everyone
<seb128> 'night didrocks
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<seb128> hello chrisccoulson
<seb128> how are you?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, good thanks
<chrisccoulson> and you?
<seb128> good too
<seb128> good night everybody
<Nafai> jcastro: btw, I'm not sure what apt-daemon is that jono mentioned in his e-mail.  I can't find a package of that name or anything in any package by that name (using apt-file)
<chrisccoulson> Nafai - aptdaemon?
<chrisccoulson> !info aptdaemon
<ubottu> aptdaemon (source: aptdaemon): transaction based package management service. In component main, is extra. Version 0.10+bzr264-0ubuntu1 (karmic), package size 5 kB, installed size 320 kB
<Nafai> doh
<Nafai> jono included a - in the name and I didn't think to try without the - :)
<Nafai> Thanks
<jono> Nafai, hehe
<Nafai> :)
<jono> you getting the hang of things?
<Nafai> getting there
<jono> Nafai, what have you been working on?
<Nafai> unfortunately, not a ton this week (luckily, I don't start paid work until next week)...mainly getting my dev environment set up and such
<Nafai> upgraded to lucid and such
<jono> no worries!
<Nafai> following the developer week stuff
<jono> I am not expecting you to work this week :)
<jono> cool :)
<Nafai> btw, I loved dholbach and jcastro's tag team this morning
<jono> Nafai, awesome :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-01-29
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i've implemented the AutostartDelay support in gnome-session already :)
<chrisccoulson> i couldn't resist
<chrisccoulson> vuntz, that was a quick response ;)
<chrisccoulson> i didn't expect anybody to be around
<LLStarks> i'd like to report a playback regression associated with today's gstreamer updates.
<LLStarks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gst-plugins-base0.10/+bug/502492
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 502492 in totem "Totem cannot open Matroska files that hold ASS subtitles" [Undecided,Invalid]
<LLStarks> this is something that i've been observing through git over the past few weeks.
<LLStarks> previously, matroska files would open fine save for improperly formatted subtitles.
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning pitti
<didrocks> how are you?
<pitti> hey didrocks; I'm great, thanks!
<pitti> got up at 7
<pitti> and hammered on my mailbox to have a clean slate
<pitti> =ubuntu [Msgs:0]
<pitti> muhaha
<didrocks> \o/
<didrocks> pitti: battery icon not showing up when on battery and forcing icon show an obviously wrong value of 100% load. Known issue?
<pitti> hm, not to me
<didrocks> oh, this morning reboot fixed it
<didrocks> but I had to unplug/plug again
<didrocks> well, let's see if I can reproduce it later
<baptistemm> hello
<baptistemm> good morning
 * baptistemm did an install with alpha 2 cd yesterday on its new ssd
<didrocks> hey baptistemm
<baptistemm> hey didrocks
<baptistemm> the install process is really beautiful
<didrocks> baptistemm: you didn't install karmic?
<baptistemm> no
<didrocks> (I didn't notice difference between karmic and alpha2 one)
<didrocks> oh ok :)
<didrocks> right, slideshow is really great
<baptistemm> didrocks, I didn't have installed ubuntu since 2 years
<baptistemm> I do only distupgrade
<baptistemm> (I only have one computer)
<didrocks> come in our French ubuntu party to give an hand, you'll install lot of time :)
<baptistemm> so now I have grub2 & ext4 :)
<baptistemm> ssd is fantastic, booting in a few seconds is awesome :)
<didrocks> heh, new world of technology :)
<didrocks> hum, I don't have the chance to use ssd yet
<baptistemm> yeah, HD was the bottleneck before, no more with SSD
<pitti> didrocks: don't you have an SSD mini 10?
<didrocks> pitti: no, you took it. Mine is HD
<didrocks> :)
 * pitti feels guilty
<didrocks> pitti: you'll find a better way to optimize it than me
<didrocks> so, don't feel guilty ;)
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: good, preparing the sprint and enjoying Friday of mostly paperwork :)
<didrocks> you?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm good thanks. i'm preparing for the weekend instead though ;)
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti
<pitti> chrisccoulson: you rock
<chrisccoulson> did you get my message last night?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I did; just didn't see a patch (it's not in bzr yet apparently)
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100129-1.png
<pitti> daily chart
<chrisccoulson> pitti - the patch is on gnome bug 608402, although it has a couple of comments from vuntz
<ubottu> Gnome bug 608402 in general "Add support for delaying autostart applications" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=608402
<chrisccoulson> excellent - that looks good
<chrisccoulson> i might try and investigate that unexplained delay at the start of the session later
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, so you actually start them from a timer, instead of adding a sleep between the fork() and the exec()
<pitti> that looks pretty nice
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i wanted to try and avoid creating a whole new process until necessary
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: how does this work with applications waiting for all soft in Applications phased to finish? (like the mouse cursor, xsplashâ¦)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - it has no effect. gnome-session will emit the session running signal as soon as all non-delayed applications have started
<didrocks> oh perfect :)
<chrisccoulson> it works the same way as the conditionally autostarted applications
<didrocks> right, gnome-session doesn't wait any signal from delayed started application
<didrocks> good ;)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - are you using the session running signal then?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: no, it was just coming into my head in case of xsplash comes back
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - yeah, this has been discussed before. the session running signal isn't an accurate indicator of when the session is ready, as it will be emitted once all applications in the last phase have connected to the session manager
<chrisccoulson> and for most applications, that happens fairly quickly
<chrisccoulson> before anything is drawn
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-August/msg00079.html
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> what are you discussing?
<chrisccoulson> my mail only got a single comment, but it was a positive one
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: thanks
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128 - we were just discussing the usefulness of the session running signal
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> hey didrocks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, usefulness or the fact that it's wrongly emited?
<seb128> ie that it should be sent after being done with the screen rendering?
<pitti> hey seb128
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i was just pointing out that it is emitted once all clients have registered, which isn't necessarily when things have drawn on screen
<seb128> pitti, hey
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> wb pitti
<seb128> pitti, did you read my comment about making the fn key work without modifier yesterday?
<baptistemm> Would you be instered by bootchart with a ssd on a lucid install ?
<baptistemm> in order to have a view on another ssd.
<seb128> sure
<pitti> seb128: sorry, had some IRC trouble
<pitti> seb128: don't think so, no?
<seb128> pitti, not sure if you are annoyed by the fn keys being multimedia by default too
<pitti> seb128: I changed that in the bios
<seb128> pitti, rickspencer pointed you can change that in the bios
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I didn't look into bios options before rick pointed it
<seb128> there is nothing useful usually in bioses nowadays
<seb128> out of setting boot order
<didrocks> seb128, pitti: I've tried to think a little about some caching policy we can use for wallpapers (2 proposals), if you can think about more, don't hesitate: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=608419
<ubottu> Gnome bug 608419 in libgnome-desktop "Caching wallpaper resize to avoid some CPU cycle at startup" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<pitti> didrocks: I'll answer in the bug report
<didrocks> pitti: thanks :)
<seb128> didrocks, g-s-d has cleaning code you could use btw
<seb128> it clean thumbnails etc
<huats> morning
<didrocks> seb128: I think the code can be easy to do, but it can be interested to see how they do it in g-s-d. I just wait for upstream to define the strategy together first.
<didrocks> seb128: thanks :)
<didrocks> hey huats
<pitti> didrocks: done
<seb128> hum
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I think you broke g-s-d media key
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it has symbol not found errors on libnotify symbols
<seb128> I guess the makefile change didn't work for a reason
<seb128> or I messed up the upgrade
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - oh, that worked when i tested it
<seb128> I will check that
<didrocks> pitti: I'm trying to think about the policy to keep only one wallpaper cache. Not that easy in fact (as we have to store the wallpaper name, the resolution and the transformation used)
<pitti> didrocks: if it's in a directory anyway, just remove the one file?
<asac> what does packagekit use xulrunner for?
<pitti> didrocks: or use a symlink or separate .info file?
<didrocks> pitti: if we just copy one, we can remove the directory I guess
<didrocks> pitti: I was thinking about a separate .info file, but a symlink is good as well :)
<pitti> .info is more portable though
<pitti> (not sure how much this stuff needs to work on windows, etc.)
<glatzor> hello asac, there's a firefox plugin
<didrocks> pitti: right, let's see what upstreams say first
<pitti> have an appointment now, bbl
<glatzor> asac,     <object type="application/x-packagekit-plugin" width="300" height="150">
<glatzor>       <!-- Name that will be used in the user interface -->
<glatzor>       <param name="displayname" value="GNU Backgammon"/>
<glatzor>       <!-- Whitespace separated list of package names -->
<glatzor>       <param name="packagenames" value="gnubg"/>
<glatzor>     </object>
<glatzor> asac, this allows you to install an application from your browser
<asac> glatzor: can we kill that?
<asac> ok
<asac> nevermind
<asac> have to check the code how trivial that is
<glatzor> asac, AFAIK there isn't any real use case
<asac> yeah
<asac> we will see if it "just works (TM)" to port to 1.9.2
<baptistemm> against which component I should fill a bug for a problem with the lucid installer
<baptistemm> is it casper?
<didrocks> baptistemm: ubiquity?
 * didrocks grrr at rhythmbox being a pain using upnp
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - did you figure out what is wrong with gsd?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, not yet, I was looking at something else
<seb128> dholbach pointed it to me
<seb128> and I noticed I've the issue too
<seb128> ** (gnome-settings-daemon:1956): WARNING **: /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon-2.0/libkeybindings.so: undefined symbol: notify_notification_show
<seb128> I don't use those keys often so I didn't notice
<seb128> ** (gnome-settings-daemon:1956): WARNING **: /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon-2.0/libmedia-keys.so: undefined symbol: notify_notification_show
<seb128> too
<seb128> I'm wondering if that's an --as-needed issue
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, found it
<chrisccoulson> ah, what was it in the end?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's a but in your change
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you add LIBNOTIFY_LDFLAGS use
<seb128> and configure.ac uses _LIB
<seb128> and not _LDFLAGS
<chrisccoulson> oops
<chrisccoulson> thanks ;)
<seb128> np ;-)
<seb128> login speed is depressing some days
<seb128> still around 9 seconds login there
<seb128> with yesterday's gconf changes, etc
<seb128> tseliot, hey, could you look to bug #509724?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 509724 in gnome-settings-daemon "Disabling tap to click doesn't disable tap to click in scrollarea" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/509724
 * tseliot has a look
<tseliot> seb128: if I disable corner tapping, people are going to be pretty angry (and they already are)
<seb128> what does corner tapping do?
<tseliot> seb128: there was a patch for the UI to allow users to change the settings of corner tapping
<tseliot> when you tap on the top right or bottom right corner you get a right click
<tseliot> (just an example)
<seb128> doesn't seem to work on my mini
<seb128> in any case the user doesn't suggest to disable that
<seb128> just to disable it when tap to click is disabled
<tseliot> oh, I see
<seb128> I'm about to do a g-s-d upload
<seb128> what do you think about the change? should we use it?
<tseliot> seb128: I'm reading the patch
<tseliot> seb128: data[1] = (state) ? 3 : 0; should be enough
<tseliot> as we don't enable middle clicks any more
<tseliot> which means that you can discard data[0] = (state) ? 2 : 0;
<seb128> ok
<seb128> you agree with doing the data[1] = (state) ? 3 : 0 change then?
<tseliot> yes, it makes sense to me
<seb128> tseliot, thanks
<tseliot> np
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - you there?
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: hmm?
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - thanks for reviewing my patch
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - i was just having a look at the comments. the reason i check gsm_app_is_running before calling gsm_app_stop in gsm-manager, is because gsm_app_stop sets a GError if the application isn't running, which is then printed as a warning in gsm-manager. i wanted to avoid the warning in the case where the autostart condition goes from enabled -> disabled before the autostart delay has timed out, and the application hasn't been 
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: ok
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: on the other hand, if you use the _start_app code as I suggested, you wouldn't connect to the signal condition-changed early, so it'd be a non-existing case
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - ok, i'll have another look at that
<pitti> re
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti
<asac> pitti: do you know what the equivalent of postpone for bugs is wrt to blueprints and WI?
<asac> just unlinking the bugs? or set wont fix for lucid?
<asac> (can we keep the non-lucid target open)?
<pitti> asac: drop entirely? yes, unlink it
<asac> ok
<pitti> lucid/wontfix could also work, I'm not sure
<asac> hmm. let me try that first
<asac> would better reflect that thats a postpone
<pitti> asac: right, reading the code now
<pitti> wontfix == postponed
<asac> pitti: and does it work to only set lucid to postponed?
<asac> ok trying that ... setting wontfix to lucid and milestoning the main task as "later"
<pitti> asac: right, that should work
<asac> cool
<asac> did that ... we will see on next run i guess
<pitti> Riddell: can you please update the Kubuntu bits on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus ?
<seb128> pitti, hey
<seb128> pitti, bug #514281 might be due to your changes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 514281 in gnome-control-center "kkeeyyss aacctt ffuunnnnyy aafftteerr uuppggrraaddee" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/514281
<seb128> pitti, seems the gconf keys for those have no value
<seb128> pitti, I'm wondering if that's due to the gconf change you did
<pitti> seb128: my first suspicion is ...
<pitti> mvo: wrt above bug, can you check your .xsession-errors for
<pitti> ** (gnome-settings-daemon:2113): WARNING **: /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon-2.0/libmedia-keys.so: undefined symbol: notify_notification_show
<seb128> ogra and mvo did start to getit today
<seb128> pitti, no, I made mvo installed my fixed g-s-d
<pitti> this broke _everyone_'s hotkeys and keyboard settings
<seb128> install
<pitti> seb128: ok, will ask in the bug then
<seb128> and that would not explain empty values
<pitti> seb128: ah, there's a fixed g-s-d?
<seb128> pitti, yes I uploaded before lunch
<pitti> merci
<seb128> de rien
<mvo> pitti: I just installed the fixed g-s-d, it did not help
<mvo>  /desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/rate is also set to "no value" for me
<seb128> it's weird that gconf-editor has "no value"
<mvo> and on my karmic system it has meaningful values
<seb128> whatever g-s-d does they should get a value
<seb128> the value could be "0"
<seb128> but I don't see how the symbol issue could lead to have vanishing key
<mvo> no idea, but got broken during the upgrade
<seb128> well as said I think it's due to pitti's gconf stripping
<mvo> but when I "unset" the key it vanishes
<pitti> mvo: I'll collect some ideas and ask in the bug
<seb128> pitti, the g-s-d bug is there for a week and people started reporting the keyboard issue otday
<pitti> ok, then I blame me
<seb128> pitti, the schemas is in libgnome
<seb128> desktop_gnome_peripherals_keyboard.schemas
<pitti> ok, bug retitled, assigned to me and moved to gconf
<seb128> pitti, mvo: iz gconf bug
<seb128> pitti, I did dpkg -i *.deb on my previous gconf local build
<pitti> so if you see similar things, please dupe to that one
<seb128> and I get defaults values again
<pitti> seb128: yes, clearly
<pitti> I get it here, too
<seb128> pitti, ok will do
<pitti> sorry about that
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> that's ok
<seb128> that's one of the reason I'm reluctant to do such changes to gconf
<seb128> it's early in the cycle so we can break things still
<mvo> pitti: ohhh, you removed my summary? I liked it :)
<seb128> lol
<pitti> mvo: for me it's the other way around; I lost key repeat completely
 * vish hehe , imagined mvo shivering ;p [bug summary]
<chrisccoulson> pitti - did you break gconf? ;)
<pitti> apparently
<seb128> it's weird, after downgrading and upgrading again it's working
<pitti> perhaps it didn't like dropping the mtime
<pitti> working fine now
<seb128> pitti, btw it seems your une lacks a clock applet in the config
<pitti> it's not just "my" UNE
<seb128> well your charts
<seb128> if you start the gnome session once it will be there
<pitti> weird
<seb128> gnome-panel fails to register it under une
<pitti> shouldn't that be in the default settings somewhere?
<seb128> I think that's due to the mandatory config
<seb128> on first run default config is register as user config
<seb128> I think the mandatory values from une break that for the clock in some way
<seb128> I mentioned it to didrocks before
<seb128> I was trying to figure why your charts are slighter faster than mines
<seb128> that's one of the differences
<pitti> how much difference does it make? clock loads evo and all that, so I guess it's quite heavy?
<didrocks> strange that I still have it, I have to retry from a vanilla karmic UNR
<pitti> seb128: I also have compiz and tomboy purged, but I think that's about it
<seb128> didrocks, I get the issue every time I remove .gconf to reset my settings
<seb128> pitti, 0.5 seconds
<seb128> pitti, well atm 1 seconds but that's because you don't get nm-applet cpu use for some reason
<seb128> which I do there
<didrocks> seb128: oh right, before logging into the desktop session which recreate it
<didrocks> and then, you got it into your UNE session, right?
<seb128> didrocks, right
<seb128> didrocks, but pitti never logged in the gnome session and is doing charts without it
<seb128> not a real issue I was just pointing it
<seb128> it makes boot slightly quicker
 * pitti goes to pack stuff for the sprint
<seb128> chrisccoulson, wb
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so it's weekend time for you? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<chrisccoulson> yeah, weekend time now :)
<seb128> cool
<chrisccoulson> although, i plan to do a bit of ubuntu stuff this afternoon
<seb128> is your little girl feeling better btw? you said she was sick the other night?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, she's a bit better now thanks
<seb128> good ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - do you have any plans for the weekend?
<chrisccoulson> you'll be travelling won't you?
<seb128> yeah, plan is to not sleep this night
<seb128> ie I get up at 5am tomorrow to catch the plane and I don't manage to sleep before 1am usually...
<seb128> so short night
<seb128> and I'm travelling tomorrow for the day so
<seb128> and we will see on sunday what happens in the other side of the world...
<didrocks> seb128: when do you arrive at Portland?
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> didrocks, 12:20
<seb128> saturday local time
<seb128> you?
<chrisccoulson> sounds like a busy weekend ;)
<didrocks> 4pm, saturday too
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, but not busy in the best way you can imagine for a weekend :-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have any plan for this weekend?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i shall be relaxing this weekend, after spending most of last saturday driving around
<seb128> relaxing sounds good ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh, one of my cats has climbed right to the top of the tree in the garden
<seb128> climbing is the easy part for them usually
<seb128> let's see how the going down is going ;-)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, normally they fall back down again ;)
<chrisccoulson> they tend to slip and then swing from the branches with their front paws
<chrisccoulson> then fall down ;)
<chrisccoulson> i should get the camcorder out
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw you can do gnome-screensaver update if you want, you don't need to though
<seb128> ie just pointing I'm not going to do it this week
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i can look at that over the weekend
<seb128> so if you want to do it feel free to grab it ;-)
<seb128> ok
<chrisccoulson> i can actually upload gnome-screensaver :)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> one thing which is working ;-)
<seb128> ok, I'm out for some erands before travelling tomorrow and packaging too...
<seb128> I will be back later though
<pitti> seb128: safe travels!
<pitti> see you tomorrow then
<seb128> see you later, or this weekend for those who stop early
<seb128> pitti, I arrive tomorrow around midday there
<seb128> so I guess we will meet in the afternoon
<seb128> safe travels too
<pitti> right
<pitti> plane lands at 14:33
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, note to self - don't try to sign e-mails with large attachments in evolution
<seb128> bbl
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - i'm going to work on fixing that gnome-session patch this afternoon
<chrisccoulson> what do you want me to do about the libegg part of it? i've committed the change to libegg now - do you just want to sync gnome-session's local copy of this
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: yep, sinc
<vuntz> err, sync
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - do you want me to do the sync now (as a separate commit), or do you want to do the sync?
<chrisccoulson> also, i assume we just sync the whole of the libegg/smclient folder in to gnome-session?
<chrisccoulson> (there's new files in there now)
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: we'll do the sync when needed (ie, when pushing your patch, I guess)
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: and no, we don't care about some files, so it's just what we have already
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - ok, thanks
<chrisccoulson> i'll work on fixing the patch now:)
<mvo> pitti: ah, keyboard is fine again, thanks for the fix
<pitti> \o/
 * mvo goes back to packging 
<didrocks> grrr, tomboy don't want to synchronize my notes
<didrocks> upstream rejected my patch for not showing the ws switcher if only one ws is visible (they just don't want that feature): https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=606966
<ubottu> Gnome bug 606966 in general "workspace switcher widget shouldn't appear if there is only one workspace" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<pitti> hm, I don't quite follow the rationale
 * pitti follows up
<didrocks> really, if you test with one ws, the ws switcher showing is really bad
<pitti> it should not even bind the key if you only have one WS
<didrocks> right
<al-maisan> Hello there! I am running lucid alpha2 now and it's very nice :)
<al-maisan> One problem: I cannot get it to give me more than 2 virtual desktops
<al-maisan> under gnome
<al-maisan> Is that a known issue?
<pitti> hm, I'm happily using 4 here
<al-maisan> sorry, "workspaces" is the word I've been looking for
<al-maisan> pitti: just tried it and it worked for me as well, thanks!
<pitti> al-maisan: I thought it wouldn't work for you?
<al-maisan> pitti: it did not
<al-maisan> when I tried to change 2->4 in the workspace switcher preferences it crashed
<al-maisan> but I gave it another whirl after your comment and it just worked
 * al-maisan shrugs
<al-maisan> pitti: the last remaining gotcha: I defined a keyboard shortcut for "Toggle whether window is on all workspaces or just one" (Ctrl+Alt+A) but when I use it, it has no effect
<pitti> asac: did that just started to happen today?
<pitti> erm, al-maisan:
<al-maisan> it may be conflicting with compiz somehow..?
<pitti> al-maisan: if you dist-upgraded today, please do it again; yesterday I uploaded a bad gconf, fixed today
<al-maisan> pitti: I only installed lucid today :P
<pitti> al-maisan: do you have gconf2 2.28.0-1ubuntu3 ?
 * al-maisan checks
<al-maisan> pitti: yes, 2.28.0-1ubuntu3
<pitti> al-maisan: right, that's busted; please upgrade to 4, restart session, and you should be happy again
<al-maisan> pitti: great :) thanks!
 * al-maisan does the logout/login dance
<didrocks> pitti: it seems you nore more provide ubuntu desktop team WI report (I can't see mine which are related to Quickly)
<didrocks> something like "ubuntu-desktop" WI
<pitti> didrocks: how do you mean?
<pitti> didrocks: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team.html#didrocks
<pitti> all there
<didrocks> pitti: oh, I was thinking they were separed into another one, as it's not directly related to my canonical job, but well :)
<didrocks> thanks pitti, I can try gtg WI importer
<pitti> didrocks: it's a spec targetted to lucid
<didrocks> ok, fine
<pitti> didrocks: you can also use all.html to get the entire ubuntu WI list
<pitti> (not just the ones relevant to desktop)
<didrocks> right, and import from there. Thanks!
<pitti> bye everyone!
<crimsun> from pm-utils, is it possible to know the UID of the user who initiated a suspend-to-* ?
<dobey> hrmm, how do i fix debian/rules to run 'make check' with cdbs?
<asac> anyone mono expert here?
<vish> awe_: hi... hmm i didnt understand your comment :(  ... are you saying that the menu can be re-designed after user testing?  [anyways , i was just responding to danw upstream comments :)  ]
<vish>  danw's upstream comment*
<awe_> vish, well, I don't understand your comment...
<awe_> seems like all the pertinent info is already in the bug
<awe_> people are complaining that the adhoc icon is meaningless and needs to be removed
<awe_> asac states that's a potential security violation
<vish> awe_: i know the info..[i was part of the discussion] I felt Dan wanted someone from the design team to comment upstream as well
<asac> awe_: check with dcbw on the sense and non-sense of that.
<asac> i think the idea is to show that that AP usually doesnt give you internet access
<awe_> yes
<awe_> although it could
<asac> it could
<asac> but most times you see that its not
<asac> i regularly see printers etc.
<awe_> agreed
<awe_> so the bug is left open until someone does user testing.... which hasn't happened yet
<awe_> so vish, nobody's commented because the user testing hasn't happened or been scheduled
<vish> i guess ...
<vish> awe_: anyway , it was part of the nm hugdat list , since i knew the bug  , i sent it upstream :)
<vish> hugday*
<awe_> vish, ok thanks...
<vish> awe_: so, you are taking care of nm this cycle ?
 * vish me used to ask asac nm related doubts last cycle ;)
<asac> there isnt much planned for this cycle wrt nm
<asac> basically a stable 0.8 ...
<asac> and more stabilization
<vish> neat..
<asac> someone might want to work on the Auth eth0 labelling bug ;)
<awe_> vish, in my spare cycles
<vish> asac: you've been pawning that one off for a long time  ;p
<vish> asac: but seems dan wants to address the notifications and the naming in the connection editor simultaneously
<baptistemm> hya
<baptistemm> for those interested with boot time on ssd with lucid: http://bmm80.free.fr/GNOME/shots/oak-lucid-20100129-1.png
 * dobey wants to get rid of boot time
 * bryceh leaves dobey's computer on all the time and solves his problem
<dobey> bryceh: i pretty much do leave my computer on all the time, unless i *have* to reboot it
<dobey> like, i install enough updates that pulseaudio finally breaks
<dobey> but that's not what i meant by getting rid of boot time
<baptistemm> dobey, with a ssd you almost get ride of boot time :)
<dobey> baptistemm: no you don't
<dobey> and i wish people would stop counting "boot time" as "only the time it takes once grub actually tells the kernel to initialize"
<JanC> dobey: you also wish we could get rid of the BIOS?  ;)
<crimsun> dobey: what sort of updates?
<dobey> JanC: yes
<dobey> crimsun: hrmm?
<crimsun> 16:27 < dobey> like, i install enough updates that pulseaudio finally breaks
<dobey> crimsun: i don't know. i just know stuff breaks, and i have to either restart completely, if not just restart some apps, to resolve sudden breakage
<dobey> crimsun: sometimes kernel, sometimes pulseaudio updates i guess
<dobey> of course, ono my laptop, pulseaudio wants to keep the sound muted :-/
<crimsun> dobey: under lucid?
<dobey> crimsun: under karmic. i just updated my laptop to lucid yesterday so haven't used lucid a whole lot yet
<dobey> i need to fix the video on it though
<dobey> grmbl grmbl intel
<crimsun> I already fixed the mute issues in lucid
<dobey> ok, then maybe it's ok with lucid
<crimsun> dobey: please look at amixer state prior to logging in via gdm and after logging in to GNOME
<dobey> though the machine i care about it on is still running karmic
<dobey> ok
<dobey> anyway
<dobey> i need to get away from the computer now
<dobey> later
<crimsun> I can't fix bugs I don't have good bug reports for
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-01-30
<ccheney> erm why does totem no longer show the time for files?
 * ccheney hopes he doesn't get its a gnome thing as an answer
 * ccheney takes a look at kubuntu again, i never thought gnome would get to the point of driving users away from dumbing itself down that much :-\
 * hyperair hasn't used totem in a long time
<hyperair> gstreamer sucks rather grandly at rendering hi-res videos on machines that can barely handle it
<ccheney> i use it to play various media files, it appears in lucid they decided knowing where you are in the file is too advanced for their users and removed the time display
<hyperair> er that can't be right. are you sure it's not a bug?
<ccheney> crazy stuff like that when i file it as a bug it almost always turns out to be a 'feature'
<ccheney> so i will file a bug but won't expect much
<hyperair> ccheney: could i see a screenshot?
<ccheney> pretty much every release there is some insanity going on where gnome removes features i want
<ccheney> hyperair: in a couple minutes i will move back over to the lucid machine
<hyperair> okay
<hyperair> switching to KDE would be much easier if it actually played well with my ~/.config/autostart
<hyperair> it runs every damn thing there even stuff that i've disabled in gnome
<hyperair> and when i tell KDE to not run it, GNOME borks up and doesn't find the stuff any more
<hyperair> so i have to manually edit those desktop files
<hyperair> seriously..
<ccheney> http://people.canonical.com/~ccheney/totem.png
<ccheney> by playing there should be a current time / total time
<hyperair> ah that
<hyperair> i see
<ccheney> filed a bugs 514619
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 514619 in totem "totem no longer shows time elapsed / total time" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/514619
 * ccheney brb
<ccheney> back
<hyperair> ccheney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/495269
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 495269 in totem "no time data is displayed next to slider in non-fullscreen mode" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<hyperair> ccheney: looks like you filed a duplicate bug
<ccheney> yea perhaps my lucid is out of date i thought it was newer than 1-27
 * ccheney will update and verify then close it out
<ccheney> kde is looking pretty nice though and konq seems much faster than firefox, might just be an illusion though
 * hyperair likes chromium
<hyperair> but firefox has been rather bloated and laggy lately
<hyperair> might be that i have too many extensions though
<ccheney> firefox without any extensions seems slower than konq, probably chromium as well
<ccheney> hmm my ubuntu image was out of date apparently, upgrading now to verify the totem bug is gone
<ccheney> hmm yea totem updates
<ccheney> yep its fixed :)
<hyperair> =)
<hyperair> ccheney: did you mean firefox slower than chromium or chromium slower than konq?
<ccheney> firefox is slower than konq and probably firefox slower than chromium too
<ccheney> from what i recall chromium is supposed to be very fast
<hyperair> yeah it is
<hyperair> it just loves eating memory
<hyperair> unsurprising since it opens up a crapton of processes
<ccheney> oh anything that eats more ram than firefox isn't that great :-\
<ccheney> firefox usually ends up taking several gb on my machines
<hyperair> ..
<hyperair> several GB..
<hyperair> how?!
<hyperair> the most i've ever seen firefox eat on my machine is.. 9%
<hyperair> of 2G
<hyperair> which is... 200M?
<hyperair> my firefoxes are generally shortlived anyhow
<hyperair> i think chromium shouldn't escalate too high, since it ditches its processes so frequently
<hyperair> exception being the flash plugin.
<hyperair> but you can force it to terminate as well
<hyperair> and then there are certain sites that makes flash eat up 2GB of RAM in 10 seconds.
<hyperair> first it begins swapping furiously, and the next thing i know, X has been OOM-killed
<ccheney> firefox with nothing open just launched takes this on my box
<ccheney> ccheney   2556  7.8  1.3 448100 54936 ?        Sl   23:41   0:00 /usr/lib/firefox-3.6/firefox-bin
<ccheney> so looks like 55MB with 448MB virt
<ccheney> if i am reading that correctly
<ccheney> with 3 pages open already at 113MB
<ccheney> close 2 of them it only goes down to 109MB
<ccheney> revert first page back to ubuntu home page still at 82MB
<ccheney> so seems to be a bit leaky, and with long lived firefox instances can easily eat a lot of ram
<hyperair> firefox and its damned leaks
<Amaranth> hyperair: firefox doesn't leak, it takes your RAM hostage
<hyperair> Amaranth: i suppose you could say that.
<Amaranth> it actually does
<Amaranth> run it on a machine with less RAM and it uses less RAM
<hyperair> Amaranth: no actually i think it leaks. you can end up with eventually 200M usage with one tab open.
<Amaranth> I think they notice if they were leaking that much :/
<Amaranth> That's not "it leaks in this odd corner case" that's "it never frees _anything_"
<Amaranth> Actually it basically never does free anything, it keeps a certain numbers of pages in your history completely loaded so the back button works instantly
<Amaranth> But it only up to a certain percentage of system memory usage or until only a certain amount is left free or something
<hyperair> is that so?
<hyperair> i use the firefox daily packages
<hyperair> and it seems that the upper limit is 9-10% of my memory
<hyperair> my firefox processes are generally short-lived though
<hyperair> but like ccheney said, his could easily take a few GB
<kklimonda> good morning
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, ping?
<kklimonda> or anyone familiar with gnome? :)
<chrisccoulson> hey kklimonda
<chrisccoulson> wassup?
<chrisccoulson> you're going to ask me about broken gconf default settings?
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, I was wondering - I keep some of my music on a second partition which isn't automatically mounted on boot. Now when I run rhythmbox I'd expect it to mount this partition so it can access music but it doesn't and I have to do it by hand. I'm wondering whenever it's a limitation of the gio/gvfs itself or does rhythmbox shouldn't store real paths to files and something like disk://id/path instead (as smb:// or ssh://)
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, no - I just assume that gconf is broken by design ;)
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, but if you have time you can take a look at bug 512391 - initial reports about 1.83 are pretty positive.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 512391 in transmission "Update Transmission to 1.83" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512391
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda - your dilemma has been discussed before. it's a limitation in gvfs at the moment, because you have to access the files using the file:/// URI
<chrisccoulson> and so there is information about the filesystem structure there (ie, you need to mount the disk before accessing the files on it)
<chrisccoulson> i actually did think about writing a new backend to handle cases like this, but I don't have enough experience with gvfs, and i don't know if its something that upstream would want
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, heh - so much thought went into gio/gvfs but this thing is pretty basic for people with dual boot :/
<kklimonda> (that's actually how I've found out about it - by testing windows 7 ;) )
<chrisccoulson> well, maybe i should invest some time to try and figure out how that could work
<chrisccoulson> anyway, i'll have a look at your transmission update later. i'm taking my daughter out shopping now :)
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, and is there any automount built-in into GNOME so people don't have to mess with /etc/fstab ?
<kklimonda> sure
<chrisccoulson> the update looks fairly trivial :)
<kklimonda> it is
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda - no, there is no way of automatically mounting stuff in GNOME when you log in, without editting /etc/fstab
<kklimonda> I was afraid of that :/
<chrisccoulson> but it has been discussed before that dk-disks (or now, udisks) may grow a D-Bus API in the future for editting /etc/fstab
<chrisccoulson> which will then make it possible to do this from graphical front-ends
<chrisccoulson> so, it may happen one day ;)
<kklimonda> I guess we need something like this anyway - not all apps are going to be ported to gvfs/gio anyway :/
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, i'll sponsor your transmission update now :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-01-31
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hey, thanks for pointing out the gconf problem!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: fixing now
 * pitti hugs chrisccoulson
<kklimonda> pitti, ping
<kklimonda> hmm, it's sunday so I can pinging him :)
<Amaranth> compiz bugs apparently have no heat
<Amaranth> told it to sort by heat and even the top one has no flames
<geser> Amaranth: see bug #511382
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 511382 in malone "Bug heat flames should be calculated based on the BugTarget's max heat" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/511382
<pitti> kklimonda: pong (please don't send contentless pings; just ask, then I can more sensibly respond)
<pitti> Amaranth: you have to enable the "flame menus" plugin first :)
<kklimonda> right... do you know about this regression: http://syntaxhighlighted.com/media/regression.png after suspend&resume with nvidia?
<kklimonda> I couldn't find it on the launchpad but decided to ask first (maybe it's not filled under nvidia driver)
<pitti> kklimonda: no, I don't know about it; but it does look like a driver bug
<kklimonda> ok, I'll report it then
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how was your flight?
<chrisccoulson> (thanks for sorting out the gconf issue btw)
<Amaranth> kklimonda: go to the nvnews forums and tell nvidia about it
<Amaranth> kklimonda: filing a bug in launchpad will basically accomplish nothing as far as getting it fixed
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-01-24
<bryceh> RAOF, well maybe, but I think we'd also need the trigger fired from the kernel like Intel does
<RAOF> Yeah.
<bryceh> certainly it gets us closer
<RAOF> That bit probably wouldn't be *terribly* hard; nouveau will normally spit some errors already when that happens.
<bryceh> at the least now we seem to have toolage for doing manual debugging, which is solid step forward if true
<RAOF> micahg, bratsche: You've added interfaces to gtk# in that branch; you therefore need to bump the clilibs version.  The simplest way to do this would be to change API_VERSION up the top of debian/rules.
<micahg> bratsche: as long as you're making changes, make sure to change the version to 1ubuntu1 instead of 1build2
<kklimonda> micahg: any chance you could switch daily mozilla builds to the new p.. pri.. par... argh.. need more sleep.. recipes :)
<kklimonda> micahg: *you* being the ubuntu mozilla team, not you in particular.
<jon8_> Does laptop battery management still work without Gnome running?? Is there a command line, command, that i can use to check battery usage?
<kklimonda> see what you have in /proc/acpi/battery/
<jon8_> i have BAT0
<jon8_> [ ken: /proc/acpi/battery ]$ ls
<jon8_> BAT0
<jon8_> is the file, /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/state, accurate and current information?
<kklimonda> you should have two files in the BAT0 folder, info and state (plus alarm). You can get most info out of those files
<jon8_> yeah.. i just did 'cat' on all of them..
<jon8_> what about powermanagement things, will those still operate correctly?
<jon8_> i set it within GNOME when plugged into AC power not to hibernate or goto sleep or anything..
<RAOF> By and large, yes.
<jon8_> http://pastebin.com/zZRuvFFA
<jon8_> none of those files say that its detected as being plugged into AC power .. and not actually using the battery.
<broder> doesn't gnome-power-manager coordinate actually doing things anyway? (i.e. hibernating based on timeout, sleeping when you close the lid, etc)
<jon8_> Where in GNOME there was an indicator
<pitti_> Good morning
<broder> jon8_: the upower command may be an easier interface to that stuff
<jon8_> hmm
<jon8_> never used that before
 * jon8_ googles
<RAOF> pitti_: Good morning.
<jon8_> yeah.. see
<jon8_> sigh
<pitti_> hey RAOF, how are you?
<jon8_> my screen just went dark
<RAOF> jon8_: If you don't have gnome-power-manager running then there's nothing that'll make the system suspend, hibernate, etc.  Oh, except for the VT blanker.
<kklimonda> jon8_: "charging state:          charged" means that the battery is charged (as opposed to charging, or discharging)
<jon8_> kklimonda ah, ok
<RAOF> pitti_: Pretty much recovered from Dallas :)  Last week was an exercise in progressive increases in the proportion of the work day not spent being sleepy :)
<jon8_> [ ken: /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0 ]$ ps aux|grep gnome-power-manager
<jon8_> ken       2137  0.0  0.0  11332   880 pts/1    S+   01:00   0:00 grep --color=auto gnome-power-manager
<jon8_> so this means no power management is being ran..
<kklimonda> morning pitti
<jon8_> whether it be sleep, hibernate .. or not to do either of those two
<pitti_> RAOF: weekends help hopefully?
<pitti_> hey kklimonda
<RAOF> pitti_: Yes they do!
<jon8_> sorry for the rather noobish questions guys.. i've got some things running on my laptop that i dont need gnome running for
<RAOF> jon8_: Right.  You won't get any of the âsuspend after Xâ type of power management things.  You'll still get cpufrequency and such hardware things.
<jon8_> and i just want to make sure that everything is going to stay on/awake/etc
<RAOF> It will.  It won't even sleep when you close the lid :)
<jon8_> well, can you explain to me then, why just sitting at the terminal login prompt, with the lid open.. my screen went black after say, 5 or 10 minutes..
<jon8_> nothing stopped running.. I have an ssh connection open from my desktop to my laptop using openssh-server and that stayed active
<jon8_> there are no factory settings in bios that would do this, i've double checked.
<jon8_> kklimonda thank you for that 'charged' 'charging' and 'discharging' tid bit btw. ;)
<RAOF> jon8_: that's the VT blanker.  Pressing any key will re-light it.  I've never cared enough to hunt down whethere or not it's controllable.
<jon8_> RAOF ah ok.. i was wondenig what you meant by that VT blanker earlier. :)
<jon8_> i'm really loving this ubuntu community. you guys no matter what the question you guys are always super helpful!
<jon8_> RAOF, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1600699 :)
<jon8_> RAOF and http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=778296
<kklimonda> morning pitti
<kklimonda> ups
<pitti_> seiflotfy_: good morning!
<pitti_> seiflotfy_: libzeitgeist and zeitgeist-extensions currently want to go to universe; is that intended?
<pitti_> (I thought unity etc. would use it)
<micahg> kklimonda: no, there's currently an hg bug
<micahg> err, bzr-hg bgu
<kklimonda> damn :/
<pitti_> argh! I accidentally pressed ctrl-e in ffox, that "grouped my tabs" and messed up everything
<micahg> pitti_: that'll change to SHIFT+CTRL+E in beta 10
<pitti_> ah, I think I finally found out how to restore things again
<pitti_> hey micahg, had a nice weekend?
<pitti_> oh no, now if I press ctrl+t for a new tab, it lands in a new window
<micahg> pitti_: yeah, still a little behind as usual :)
<kklimonda> pitti_: it sounds like a bug I hit yesterday
<micahg> pitti_: how was your weekend?
<kklimonda> it has to be a bug, because this behaviour makes absolutely no sense ;)
<kklimonda> (restarting Fx "fixed" that for me)
<pitti_> micahg: pretty nice, went from the Prague hackfest to Munich, and we spent some time outside
<pitti_> kklimonda: phew, yes
<micahg> pitti_: I've been hibernating in Chicago with it being 20F or less outside
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<pitti_> hey TheMuso
<kklimonda> o/
 * TheMuso notes it got to 32 degrees C here today.
<TheMuso> With more to come this week.
<RAOF> Come down to Hobart.  It's a very reasonable mid-20s kinda place âº
<broder> psh. it was a gorgeous 70 degrees F here today, and it's still supposed to be winter for me :-P
 * micahg thinks broder needs to visit Chicago for some real winter
<pitti_> feh - /me shivers and cranks up the heating a notch
 * kklimonda mutters about snow being everywhere..
<broder> micahg: i just moved out of boston. i've done my time
<micahg> broder: fair enough
<TheMuso> RAOF: Yeah I'll bet, thats what I call nice summer weather. Even 30 degrees would be ok here without the humidity.
<desrt> i wonder if someone can help me deduce why the PPA server is rejecting my uploads?
<desrt> the only thing error-looking in the rejection email is the following:
<desrt> Rejected:
<desrt> Further error processing not possible because of a critical previous error.
<RAOF> desrt: Can you pastebin the whole email?  I vaguely remember getting something similar in the past, and maybe the full context will shake something loose.
<desrt> sure
<desrt> http://fpaste.org/6xdR/
<desrt> maybe it doesn't like that i'm trying to upload version '0' of something :p
<micahg> desrt: that sounds like a possibility
<desrt> could also be that the PPA service doesn't know how to deal with native releases out of git
<RAOF> desrt: Oh, you can't upload binaries to the PPA.  Or anywhere on launchpad.
<micahg> ah, that would probably be it :)
<desrt> ah.  i thought i was doing a source upload
 * desrt tries again...
<RAOF> debuild -S is your friend :)
<desrt> ah ya.  the amd64 thing might have tipped me off :)
<desrt> thanks for the obvious.  it's 2am her e:)
<desrt> sigh.  rejected again.
 * desrt will try to figure it out later...
<desrt> nite everyone
<broder> by the way, for anyone that was involved in the multimonitor discussion at UDS, i'd appreciate feedback on how well http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnomecc-list/2011-January/msg00007.html addresses the concerns people had
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti_> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> hey pitti_, how was you week-end?
<pitti_> didrocks: quite nice indeed, a much-needed relaxation after not having had "real" weekends for the past three weeks due to travelling :)
<pitti_> didrocks: went from Prague to Munich on Friday night, and we spent a long time walking
<pitti_> didrocks: how was your's?
<didrocks> pitti_: was fine, thanks. A little bit cold, but a lot of walking in Lyon center city as well + shopping and such :)
<geser> good morning
<geser> can someone review/sponsor https://code.launchpad.net/~geser/evince/fix_linking_for_gir/+merge/47158 ? it fixes the current evince FTBFS in natty
<didrocks> hey geser, will have a look today. Thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti_> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti_ - i'm good thanks, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> you're back from the hackfest now?
<didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson!
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine, thanks, and you?
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - yeah, not too bad thanks
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks
<rodrigo_> and chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi rodrigo_ !
<chrisccoulson> i'm glad my laptop is still working today, i took the display off it yesterday
<chrisccoulson> i thought it might not work again once i put it back together again ;)
<pitti_> chrisccoulson: yes, I am, just writing my report
<pitti_> chrisccoulson: ugh, why disassembling your laptop?
<pitti_> "Engineer's motto: If it ain't broken, take it apart and fix it"
<chrisccoulson> pitti - the hinges were coming loose on my lid again
<chrisccoulson> in fact, when i got the bezel off the display, one of the screws fell out ;)
<pitti_> ugh
<pitti_> that seems to be a laptop's weakest spot
<pitti_> well, that and the inability to deal with a full cup of coffee :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, thats the second time i've had to tighten up the screws now
<chrisccoulson> although, the first time it was the screws that hold the hinge on to the base, which are much easier to access ;)
<seb128> hey
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> lut didrocks, ca va bien!
<seb128> et toi ?
<didrocks> Ã§a roule :)
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, I'm quite well, what about you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you have a nice we?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, not too bad thanks. i didn't do much over the weekend ;)
<seb128> which is what weekends are for right? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i planned to wash our car, but i never got round to it in the end ;)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<pitti_> hey seb128, bonjour!
<seb128> hey pitti_
<seb128> back in Germany ?
<seb128> how are you?  had a nice we?
<rodrigo_> salut seb128
<seb128> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<pitti_> seb128: yes, went to Munich Friday night, and finally enjoyed a weekend after 2 weeks :) we went for some nice long hikes
<rodrigo_> seb128, fine, and you?
<seb128> pitti_, great ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, I'm fine thanks
<seb128> still catching up on emails after the we!
<rodrigo_> heh, that's the Monday top task, yeah :D
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you have any chance to work on this g-s-d gdm issue?
<rodrigo_> seb128, I had a quick look at gdm code, but couldn't find where to kill the gdm's g-s-d, so pinged upstream
 * pitti_ waits for his server to come back to read mails and post week report
<chrisccoulson_> rodrigo_, doesn't g-s-d normally just die when it loses the X connection?
<chrisccoulson_> perhaps that's the real problem
<chrisccoulson_> i don't think it registers with the session manager at all
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson_, : about that bug, it's not, it's the user's g-s-d starting when gdm's g-s-d hasn't died yet
<rodrigo_> so the user's g-s-d dies
<seb128> chrisccoulson_, well the issue there is that some people get the session one starting before the gdm one exit-ed
<seb128> the session one bails out on "there is already a settings daemon running on this display"
<rodrigo_> yeah, only one xsettings process can be running at a time
<chrisccoulson_> i get that bit :)
<chrisccoulson_> but if g-s-d doesn't register with the session manager, then that's probably the real bug isn't it?
<chrisccoulson_> i think it normally just sits around until X dies
<chrisccoulson_> i might be wrong though
<seb128> chrisccoulson_, having it to register with the session would also give respawning on crash
<seb128> which would be a nice to get ;-)
<seb128> especially since the gtk theme is resetted when it crashes
<chrisccoulson_> yeah :)
<iansmith> pitti_, seb128: I have a question regarding Bluetooth and a fax-modem which requires a long PIN, and I was pointed in your directions by asac - might you be able to help?
<seb128> iansmith, hey, I doubt I will be useful, I've little clue about bluetooth and no clue about fax modem or pin numbers
<iansmith> seb128: Do you know anyone who may be able to help?
<pitti_> iansmith: inability to enter a long pin? I think that'd be best handled in an upsream bug report, as nobody on the desktop team is particularly working on bluetooth
<seb128> iansmith, what pitti said
<iansmith> pitti_, seb128: Many thanks - I did log a bug, but nothing has happened in a couple of months :-(
<seb128> iansmith, what is the bug number?
<iansmith> seb128: Just let me find it... It may take a while...
<iansmith> seb128: #669471 isthe bug number.
<seb128> gnome bug #669471
<seb128> no bot today?
<didrocks> seems it took a long week-end :)
<iansmith> seb128: Sorry, but I don't understand :-(
<seb128> iansmith, oh, is that a launchpad bug?
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/blueman/+bug/669471?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 669471 in blueman "Blueman fails to register long PIN" [Undecided,New]
<iansmith> seb128: Yes - that's it - did I log it incorrectly?
<seb128> iansmith, do you use blueman?
<seb128> it's an universe software and you opened an upstream bug task on launchpad
<seb128> not a surprise that nobody replied
<iansmith> seb128: I do, but it doesn't mean I have to - as long as it works...
<seb128> iansmith, I've no clue about blueman we don't install that in Ubuntu standard
<seb128> it's coming from universe, not even sure if it's maintained by anyone
<iansmith> seb128: Could you point me in the direction of the "right" way :-)
<seb128> what are you trying to do?
<seb128> why not trying with gnome-bluetooth with is what we use by default?
<iansmith> seb128: I just want connectivity between my Bluetooth dongle and my PDA/ Phone & fax modem - the PHone & PDA work fine  - it's just getting so I can now use the fax modem.
<iansmith> seb128: I thought I had tried all combinations - but I will check what is installed,and ensure that it is Gnome that is installed, not Blueman
<seb128> well on a standard ubuntu installation you get a bluetooth icon with the indicators
<seb128> it's gnome-bluetooth
<iansmith> seb128: I've removed Blueman, and ensured gnome bluetooth is enabled (it wasn't removed), and I can see the modem, but I can't seem to test it is working. With Blueman it would communicate, and then tell me it couldn't establish a connection. Sorry for being such a clueless fool!
<seb128> iansmith, I've no clue about bluetooth modem but wouldn't that require to use connman or nm rather?
<iansmith> seb128: As far as I understand it, there are two ways to communicate - one is using a serial terminal emulator, and the other is with fax software e.g. efax of gfax  (but I don't have experience of either working due to no communication with the device!). I haven't seen anything crop up for BT in NM/ connman.
<didrocks> fta: any idea why when I try to open anything from chromium, it keeps telling me "can't open <tar/pdfâ¦>: it's not a folder"
<fta> didrocks, ?? never got that. is that the exact error message?
<fta> screenshot?
<fta> which version is that? latest stable?
<didrocks> fta: the version in natty, making a screenshot, one sec
<didrocks> fta: http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/chromium-open-file.png
<didrocks> (confirmed it's working in double-clicking from nautilus or in firefox)
<fta> didrocks, that error message doesn't seem to be coming from chromium. when you click on something in the dl bar, it uses xdg-open
<didrocks> fta: right, confirmed directly with xdg-open which is broken then. Not sure what firefox is using then, but it should be something else (gio?)
<fta> didrocks, xdg-open seems to be using gvfs-open by default (in natty), or fallback to gnome-open
<fta> for gnome
<fta> (unless the DE detection is broken)
<didrocks> I guess it's trying to use gnome-open looking at it, but this one doesn't work either
<seb128> didrocks, gnome-open doesn't work on what urls?
<didrocks> seb128: like, download a tar.gz, then try to gnome-open <path/tar.gz> (same with pdf too)
<seb128> didrocks, wfm
<fta> didrocks, wfm too
<didrocks> hum, what can be wrong in my config then? :/
<didrocks> it tries to open it as if it was a directoryâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, do you get the issue on any format? ie images or txt as well?
<seb128> do you get the issue if you "gnome-open example.pdf"
<seb128> ie without a directory name?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, seems to be on everything (with or without a directory in the path, every file format)
<seb128> weird
<seb128> is gvfs-open doing the same thing?
<didrocks> gvfs-open isn't installed
<didrocks> let me do it
<seb128> ok, for me neither
<seb128> it's not required, that's just to check if gvfs has the same issue
<didrocks> ok, was wondering if it was related :)
<didrocks> trying
<didrocks> same
<fta> didrocks, can you check the url xdg-open receives from chromium? (maybe add "echo $@ >> /tmp/xdg.txt" at the top of the script)
<didrocks> fta: sure, one sec
<seb128> didrocks, can you gvfs-info on the file and pastebiny it?
<didrocks> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/557616/ on a text file
<seb128> didrocks, does it work in a guest session?
<didrocks> fta: it receives an absolute path, nothing fancy
<didrocks> seb128: good idea, trying
<fta> didrocks, maybe a problem with the space and/or parentheses in your filenames (not unusual in shell scripts)
<didrocks> fta: no, I tried with an unicode only path
<fta> ok
<didrocks> ok, so chromium doesn't seem to work in the guest session
<didrocks> however, I tried xdg-open directly
<didrocks> it prompts a gnome dialogbox asking which is my prefered file manager (and proposing nautilus)
<didrocks> so, it definitively wants to bind that to a file manager
<fta> bug 577919?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 577919 in gdm-guest-session "chromium-browser fails to start (guest account, OpenVZ): "Failed to move to new PID namespace: Operation not permitted"" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/577919
<didrocks> fta: same, right
<didrocks> I guess it's an apparmor thing, should strace it
<fta> try with --no-sandbox
<fta> but it's not recommended to keep it
<fta> + disabled
<didrocks> fta: ok, will give it a try, thanks
<seb128> pitti, will you do a gdm update today?
<pitti> seb128: for the focus fix?
<pitti> thought about it
<pitti> our CDs are back in reasonable shape; still need to do a smoketest
<seb128> pitti, ok, I've other changes I want to get in, please ping me before doing an upload if you do one
<pitti> seb128: ah, ok
<seb128> pitti, you will just use vuntz's patch for it?
<pitti> seb128: yes, if it works (we have tons of patches, after all)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson_, is firefox listing a week worth in history under "Today" a known issue?
<chrisccoulson_> seb128 - i don't think so
<seb128> like it's listing launchpad bugs and components pages I didn't access today for sure, likely last week
<seb128> Today
<seb128> > launchpad.net
<seb128> the history is sorted by "date and site"
<chrisccoulson_> hmmmm :/
<seb128> chrisccoulson_, do you get the same issue?
<chrisccoulson_> it doesn't seem like it. i just had a look, and it seems to be only sites i've visited today
<seb128> ok, weird
<seb128> usually it's fine I think, not sure what's going on today
<ari-tczew> didrocks: could you delete Vcs-Bzr: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/hamster-applet/ubuntu ?
<ari-tczew> it's in universe
<seb128> chrisccoulson_, ok, it's not only last week, it seems it lists the fd.o history of things it knows about and quite some launchpad ones as well
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: delete Vcs-Bzr: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/hamster-applet/ubuntu from d/controls. branches for universe are deprecated and going to remove.
<didrocks> someone just did it
<seiflotfy_> pitti, sup
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: sure, done
<virtuald> *****
<seb128> ari-tczew, could you try to not ping several people just because one didn't reply immediatly? you just lead to work duplication
<ari-tczew> seb128: ?
<czajkowski> heh
<seb128> ari-tczew, well you pinged didrocks then kklimonda, by the time didrocks read your request kklimonda had it done and didrocks wasted time
<ari-tczew> seb128: I don't understand
<ari-tczew> seb128: no
<ari-tczew> seb128: calm down and listen
<seb128> don't tell me to calm down when I'm not angry to start ;-)
<ari-tczew> seb128: didrocks has got access to ~ubuntu-desktop, so I pinged him to check branch - my bad that it was deleted in the past
<ari-tczew> but kklimonda want to be sponsored for universe and I pinged him to fix his branch
<ari-tczew> I don't see a duplication
<seb128> k
<ari-tczew> maybe I am wrong?
<seb128> dunno, I just saw that by the time didrocks checked there was no vcs to clean
<seb128> seems that was a mistake so let's forget about it and move on ;-)
<ari-tczew> yes my bad
<seb128> no worry
<ari-tczew> ok
<fta> was the last gdm supposed to fix the keyboard layout issue?
<seb128> what gdm keyboard layout issues?
<seb128> there is no gdm keyboard layout issues known
<desrt> seb128: hey.  can you help me with an upload issue?
<seb128> desrt, hey, depends of the issue, tell us
<seb128> grr, can't figure what is bring python-gnome2 on the livecd images
<desrt> http://fpaste.org/CO63/
<seb128> desrt, you uploaded a .dsc and a .git?
<desrt> i did dput on a .changes
<desrt> it did what it did :)
<desrt> but my source/format is 3.0 (git)
<geser> does LP perhaps not like 0 as version?
<seb128> desrt, shouldn't you have an upstream tarball as well?
<seb128> desrt, that and the 0 version can't be causing issues
<desrt> native package straight out of git (i have debian packaging on a branch)
<seb128> can't -> can
<seb128> desrt, try with a non 0 version
<desrt> hmm
<desrt> do you have a particular method of packaging unreleased software?
 * desrt wonders if it will complain about a missing tarball due to a debian revision version even with git format...
<seb128> not really, I would take the configure version and add a ~git something
<desrt> makes sense
<desrt> have you seen this git-describe thing?
<seb128> no, we don't use git a lot around
<desrt> juergbi is using it in vala.  i'm thinking about it.  it's pretty awesome.
<seb128> try asking on #launchpad maybe
<seb128> I would not be surprised if soyuz didn't handle the 3.0 (git) format
<desrt> it takes the last tag on the current branch and appends the number of commits that have happened since then to it, plus the abbreviated git commit tag
<desrt> so you get a version like 0.7.1-5-abcdef
<desrt> and you can setup autotools to use that (for pkgconfig files, even).  pretty neat.
<seb128> nice
<desrt> cdbs for qmake, btw, is pretty interesting :)
<desrt> i was swearing at it a lot when it wouldn't take the files from my debian/tmp/ directory for the separate binary packages
<fta> seb128, when i type my login, i have an unexpected qwerty layout, the password is in azerty (expected)
<desrt> until i realised that the cdbs rules assume that qmake is broken (which it is) and try to take the files directly out of the source tree :)
<seb128> fta, is the layout wrong on vts as well?
<fta> vts?
<fta> vtys?
<fta> no
<seb128> VTs
<seb128> ie vt1
<fta> yes, it is
<seb128> seems rather that console-setup issue
<fta> i regressed ~2 weeks ago
<fta> it
<seb128> right, there is a console-setup issue
<desrt> seb128: you were right.  changed to 3.0(native) and everything is peachy
<desrt> not really sure with the '(git)' gets me, to be honest
<seb128> desrt, http://wiki.debian.org/GitSrc
<seb128> or rather http://wiki.debian.org/Projects/DebSrc3.0
<Laney> I always found the dpkg-source manpage to explain source formats well
<seb128> desrt, the debian dir is maintained with git if you use that
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: why we should bump debhelper, upgrade to 3.0 source format? this is a place for Debian
<seb128> pitti, was there any decision about the at-spi version to use this cycle?
<seb128> rodrigo_, ^
<pitti> seb128: deferring to TheMuso
<seb128> pitti, what was the conclusion when you discussed it in Dallas?
<pitti> seb128: that TheMuso needed to look into a problem with bonobo, and once that's fixed, we can switch over
<desrt> seb128: i have the debian/ directory in upstream git on a branch
<seb128> desrt, well, the format is different from the storage
<desrt> i noticed that i get some extra checks
<seb128> desrt, sourve v3 (git) would mean you have your upstream tarball and a diff.gz where the diff.gz is a git repository
<desrt> with 3.0(git), for example, it makes sure all my changes are committed before i try to roll the release
<desrt> hm.  it seemed just to make a .git and a .dsc/changes
<seb128> desrt, so you maintain your debian dir in a git, not your source in git
<desrt> oh.  i see.
<desrt> ya.  not what i'm doing here.
<seb128> what you do is usual source v3 quilt
<desrt> i was reading some stuff last night about releasing out of upstream git too
<desrt> shallow clones and stuff...
<seb128> like you have upstream and debian dir in git and you use debian/patches in quilt format to add patches
<desrt> i guess quilt with 0 patches is pretty much like native?
<desrt> ...assuming the debian/ directory is in the 'upstream' tarball
<desrt> eh.  this will be something to worry about after i actually release
<desrt> (which at this point i see no real benefit in doing)
<seb128> right
<desrt> i have to admit... git direct to PPA is a pretty nice system :)
<desrt> tarballs are so 2010
<desrt> sort of works nicely with qmake too (since there is no 'make install' or 'make dist')
<seb128> rodrigo_, Laney: would it be any way to drop the tomboy depends on libgnome24-cil?
<seb128> libgnome2.24-cil
<desrt> dbarth: awake?
<seb128> it's using the gconfpeditor bindings from there
<seb128> but that brings in the gnomevfs-cil and gnomevfs C stack
<seb128> could we port that code away from gconfpeditor or copy that binding to tomboy?
<bcurtiswx_> good day all
<seb128> hey bcurtiswx_
<bcurtiswx_> hi seb128 :)
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, great work getting empathy updated ;-)
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, well it was a successful failure..
<dbarth> desrt: sure
<dbarth> desrt: hi Ryan
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, got it to build OK with the patches, but found out in the end due to indicate getting as much attention and upgrades as it is, that the patches were pretty bad now.. so for now it's just a source build with no indicator support ATM
<dbarth> desrt: aren't you in holidays today?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, kenvandine has it on his long term list of fixes to make.. so the ball is out of my court so to speak
<desrt> dbarth: ya
<desrt> dbarth: so don't expect to see me around much
<Laney> seb128: maybe it could be ported, could you ask sandy?
<desrt> but i wanted you to know that the PPA is up now
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, but thx though.. it was a pain and in the end I learned a TON :)
<desrt> dbarth; https://launchpad.net/~desrt/+archive/dconf-qt
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, great, so got it in the ppa?
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, great, should be easier from now on
<seb128> hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, its in the gnome3 PPA yes, with the series file full of comments ;)
<seb128> Laney, well I guess upstream will want to port to gsettings rather
<seb128> Laney, the question is mostly one specific for us while we stay on gconf this cycle
<bcurtiswx_> well actually i may need to push
 * bcurtiswx_ checks
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, OK, it's all pushed and up to date in the gnome3 code and PPA
<Laney> yeah well that might be some way off, so he might accept a patch to port to gconf-sharp
<seb128> rodrigo_, ^
<seb128> do you think that's a task you can take on?
<Laney> the API is pretty easy, http://www.go-mono.com/docs/monodoc.ashx?link=N%3aGConf
<bdrung> hi, libkibi was promoted to main. now i will start patching applications to use libkibi. is there anything that i should know that is gnome packaging specific?
<chrisccoulson_> which applications? was that discussed with anybody?
<seb128> bdrung, what is libkibi?
<chrisccoulson_> that's what i was wondering ;)
<seb128> bdrung, GNOME -> open bugs with the patches upstream if you can
<seb128> we are not likely to distro patch specific changes which have not been discussed upstream if we don't have to
<bdrung> seb128: https://launchpad.net/libkibi and http://overbenny.wordpress.com/2011/01/08/nautilus-with-libkibi/
<bdrung> seb128: i opened upstream bugs
<seb128> what was upstream responses?
<milanbv> I really don't see GNOME adding an external dep just to show file sizes when GLib has functions for it :-/
<bdrung> seb128: one reject, transmission is working on adoption.
<seb128> bdrung, which one refused it? we are not likely to take it for things which upstream refused
<bdrung> milanbv: that function should be deprecated. i am going to discuss if glib wants to adopt the ~10 functions needed.
<bdrung> seb128: they want to have the functions in glib.
<chrisccoulson_> getting the functionality in to glib would be better
<seb128> right, getting it in glib would be better
<chrisccoulson_> having a separate library just for displaying units seems overkill
<seb128> doesn't seem worth the work and the extra lib
<seb128> we are not likely to use this new lib in GNOME
<bdrung> chrisccoulson_: i want to use this library in non-glib C programs too
<milanbv> I think the conclusion last time was that GLib wouldn't add customizable functions?
<bdrung> milanbv: then we are back at the no-progress situation. some want base10, some want base2, but no decision is taken.
<bdrung> some applications use their own implementation for size conversion.
<milanbv> yeah, but a separate lib for that is really overkill
<bdrung> milanbv: better solution what a non-glib C program should use for size conversion? pull the complete glib?
<seb128> bdrung, the "complete glib" is part of standard linux systems nowaday
<seb128> bdrung, the "complete glib" is part of standard linux systems nowaday
<seb128> ups
<seb128> bdrung, like used in any gtk or qt application, so it shouldn't be an issue to depends on it
<seb128> you can still provide a standalone libraries for things which don't use those but we will not add an extra library to the depends
<bdrung> seb128: there are command line tools outside gtk and qt
<seb128> we try to reduce the number of libraries
<seb128> bdrung, cf what I just wrote
<seb128> it's fine for them to use it
<seb128> we will not make GNOME use an extra library
<seb128> it adds clutter and start time
<seb128> it's also the wrong way to deal with that issue
<bdrung> seb128: what's the correct way?
<seb128> get glib to do the right thing
<seb128> the right thing could be to respect a gsettings key which define the format the user want to use
<rodrigo_> seb128, what task?
<seb128> rodrigo_, tomboy porting from gconfpeditor to gconf#
<seb128> rodrigo_, so we can drop the depends on libgnomeui2.24-cil
<seb128> which is bringing libgnomevfs-cil on the CD
<rodrigo_> seb128, ugh, it uses gconf_peditor?
<rodrigo_> seb128, but yes, sure, I can take it
<rodrigo_> is there a bug #?
<seb128> rodrigo_, it seems to, at least the configure checks for it and it depends on it
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, but I will open one and assign it to you if that's fine
<seb128> rodrigo_, you might want to check with sandy what are upstream plans or if they would welcome a patch?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, assign it to me
<rodrigo_> and yes, will talk with sandy
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks, no hurry it's a cleaning task, it can land in some weeks or next cycle
<seb128> rodrigo_, so don't stress over it if you have other things on your list
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok :)
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<rodrigo_> although it shouldn't be hard to replace, afaik, if it's the same gconf_peditor there was on g-c-c
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw do you know if there was a decision on at-spi against at-spi2 for this cycle?
<rodrigo_> seb128, for natty? at-spi
<rodrigo_> seb128, we just needed a patch from at-spi2, so that's in our packages now, afaik
<seb128> rodrigo_, why not at-spi2?
<seb128> rodrigo_, it's the only things keeping bonoboui in the default installation
<seb128> rodrigo_, well I guess that's a question for TheMuso rather than you?
<seb128> but cleaning libbonoboui would be nice
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, I think it introduces some regressions, but not sure
<rodrigo_> yes, TheMuso should know better
<seb128> ok
<bdrung> seb128: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=640432
<ubot2> Gnome bug 640432 in general "integrating libkibi into glib?" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> bdrung, thanks
<seb128> bdrung, your bug might lack a rational or argument for that library
<seb128> or those functions
<bdrung> seb128: discussing this with the glib developers was on my todo list.
<seb128> bdrung, ok, let's see what they say, could well be one of those "GNOME should just do the right thing and enforce one format rather than letting that be an option" though
<bdrung> seb128: yes. but then the bikeshed discussion start, what's the "right" thing is.
<chrisccoulson_> woah, compiz is using 500MB of RAM on my laptop
<bdrung> seb128: would pointing to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~libkibi-dev/libkibi/trunk/view/head:/doc/byteprefix.5.in help?
<chrisccoulson_> and unity-panel-service using 300MB
<chrisccoulson_> unity is heavy ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson_, there is a leak when you open the dash if you played with that a bit
<bdrung> unity is behaving wrong all the time on my system.
<seb128> bdrung, can't hurt to give some pointer to documentation
<chrisccoulson_> seb128 - oh, yeah, i just opened it a few times here, and it went up by another 150MB
<seb128> chrisccoulson_, blame njpatel
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson_> njpatel, is that your fault? ;)
<chrisccoulson_> all your RAM are belong to us
 * micahg feels like that about Firefox  3886 micah     20   0 4154m 1.7g  18m S  100 45.7 945:41.92 firefox-4.0-bin
<njpatel> chrisccoulson_, waagwan?
<seb128> njpatel, the unity dash and firefox try to compete in ram usage contest
<seb128> njpatel, seems you are winning this week ;-)
<njpatel> seb128, interesting...seriously?
<seb128> njpatel, read the few lines before the highlight
<njpatel> wow fudge
<seb128> njpatel, bug #705705
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 705705 in unity "unity 3.2.14 is causing memory leak in compiz when opening places" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705705
<seb128> njpatel, on launchpad
<njpatel> well, that's not good, is it?
<seb128> njpatel, not really, you might want to target the bug for this week round
<njpatel> wow
<seb128> njpatel, well it's not likely people use the dash much yet since it doesn't do a lot
<njpatel> 100MB a time
 * njpatel rocks at mem leaks
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> let's blame kamstrup to not spotting it in code review!
<kenvandine> hehe
<njpatel> that works for me
<njpatel> compiz is using 2.2GB here
<njpatel> though that's on 4096x1152, so it does have more to show etc
<seb128> 270m there but I opened the dash only once that was to workaround the events issue
<bdrung> seb128: quote from #gtk+: <mclasen> we deprecate the glib api and agree that it was a mistake to ever go there
<seb128> bdrung, so what applications supposed to use or do?
<bdrung> seb128: libkibi. ;) it's the easiest way for the glib developers to say that this functionality doesn't belong to glib and throw it out.
<seb128> well seems to be bouncing the issue
<seb128> i.e rather than having a glib function which gives some consistency it let the softwares writters on their own to use libkibi or do their own thing
<seb128> seems rather a step backward
<seb128> no?
<bdrung> seb128: somehow, yes.
<seb128> bdrung, *great* :-(
<bdrung> seb128: i don't know how long it will take to get a proper solution into gnome.
<seb128> bdrung, just by curiosity what are other systems doing about units? do they let pick the format to use?
<bdrung> seb128: KDE does.
<seb128> bdrung, well I mean real systems
<bdrung> seb128: what is a real system for you?
<evilvish> do we patch nautilus regarding the filesizes?
<evilvish> also..  <andre_> FYI, libkibi maintainer provided a patch for nautilus upstream. Cosimo closed it as WONTFIX
<seb128> bdrung, not wanting to troll KDE but them having an option for something is not really a surprise
<seb128> they tend to not be short on options
<seb128> bdrung, but things like win XP or newers, macOS, android, etc
<bdrung> seb128: Windows - historic base2, Mac - base10
<bdrung> but they are probably not configurable
<seb128> bdrung, so it seems users don't care so much about having it configurable
<seb128> not sure why we can't just pick a default and deal with it
<bdrung> seb128: we could pick what the units policy demands.
<bdrung> base10 + si prefixes
<seb128> bdrung, would work for me but well it will likely be that nobody cares enough to do the changes and we will stay on what we have now
<bdrung> seb128: there are some people caring about it (including me).
<seb128> right, that's not what I meant, I know you are quite interested by it
<bdrung> seb128: that's why we have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy and brainstorm ideas like http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/21184/
<seb128> the thing is that we on the GNOME packaging side are not interested in doing patching for it or having to deal with bugs or discussions that will go with it
<bdrung> seb128: even if i am offering my help?
<seb128> or rather not "not interested" but it seems work over what's it's worth, we have other things to work on
<seb128> bdrung, yes, the issue is not to have the initial patches, it's to have to carry the diff over upstream and Debian and deal with the user complains, issue, etc
<pitti> seb128: I'm done with gdm commits; the focus fix works fine \o/
<seb128> pitti, excellent ;-)
<seb128> pitti, I didn't have time to merge the change from my inbox
<seb128> pitti, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/706842
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 706842 in gdm "gdm upstart config file lists incorrect events" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> pitti, there is a patch from james here if you want to merge it
<seb128> pitti, i.e if you want to get an upload, I don't want to block you
<pitti> seb128: can do (the MP is invalid, wrong branch), but I can sort that out
<seb128> well it's a 2 liners
<pitti> seb128: no, I don't think it's that urgent to upload, if you want to work on other things
<seb128> pitti, no, I just wanted to get that fix in
<pitti> seb128: ah, ok; IDTT
<seb128> so either do it and upload or let it for me later
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<kenvandine> bratsche, i have a fix for libgrip
<seb128> mterry, hey
<mterry> seb128, hello
<seb128> mterry, was there anything stopping getting the new gdl in natty?
<mterry> seb128, no...?  I'd have to look at it again.  I can push if so.  I was also going to try to answer the question about gsettings & anjuta today or tomorrow
<seb128> mterry, ok, no hurry, I was just trying to please upstream on this one
<seb128> it seems we could just update gdl and anjuta
<mterry> seb128, as long as the new gdl is parallel installable of course.  There were rdepends that would need to be ported if not
<seb128> especially if the new glade can be installed next to the current one
<mterry> right...
<seb128> mterry, the only rdepends I see out of anjuta is gtranslator
<seb128> which has been ported upstream
<seb128> that an python-gdl
<seb128> which nothing is using
<seb128> mterry, well check for the gsettings thing when you have time, no hurry
<seb128> with some luck we can maybe get the new glade from debian at some point, they are active on GNOME3 in experimental now
<didrocks> session restart, bbiab
<bratsche> kenvandine: Really?  Awesome!
<kenvandine> yeah... :)
<kenvandine> i'll propose a merge soon
<bratsche> kenvandine: Awesome, thanks!
<kenvandine> not much of a fix though...  just need to move the instantiation of the GestureManager operation to init
<kenvandine> seems touchy for threading
<bratsche> Okay cool
<kenvandine> i also cleaned up the overrides file
<bratsche> Cool
<Amaranth> weird, evolution doesn't seem to be making my mail icon go green :/
<seb128> pitti, dropping the libproxy0 recommends on webkit seems buggy
<seb128> pitti, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=597864
<ubot2> Debian bug 597864 in libproxy0 "libproxy0 not functional without libmozjs2d" [Important,Fixed]
<seb128> pitti, why is libproxy0 on the kubuntu image to start?
<seb128> is that because of the gvfs being pulled in issue?
<pitti> seb128: through gstreamer
<seb128> pitti, right
<seb128> pitti, still it seems your libproxy change is wrong
<seb128> libproxy0 should recommends libwebkit and not be on kubuntu
<pitti> phonon-backend-gstreamer recommends gstreamer0.10-plugins-good depends libsoup-gnome2.4-1 depends libproxy0 recommends libwebkitgtk-1.0-0
<pitti> Richie: I guess you do want gst-good, so you need to live with libsoup-gnome2.4-1 and thus libproxy0?
<pitti> I don't see a better way to break it up
<pitti> seb128: would you prefer libwebkitgtk | mozjs | <insert Kubuntu browser here>?
<pitti> ah, libproxy FTBFSed anyway due to uninstallable kdelibs5-dev
<seb128> pitti, let me think, I guess it doesn't matter much for Ubuntu since we will have webkit installed anyway
<pitti> right
<seb128> but it seems wrong to revert a debian change which added the recommends on purpose
<pitti> I just don't think that adding a | kubuntu-browser alternative would be any better
<seb128> pitti, right, I don't like that much either, I guess let it this way
<seb128> it's still buggy but I've no good idea and it will not impact GNOME users
<seb128> well it means that people getting libproxy used on kubuntu will run into non working proxy issues
<seb128> since it really requires libmozjs or webkit for some features to work
<bdrung> seb128: last comment in https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=640432
<ubot2> Gnome bug 640432 in general "integrating libkibi into glib?" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> bdrung, nice comment, thanks for the summary
<seb128> bdrung, I'm not sure why "do nothing" won't solve the problems?
<seb128> we have an api working in a consistent way
<seb128> we just need to patch applications to use it correctly no?
<bdrung> seb128: because the unit used by g_format_size_for_display violates all norms.
<bdrung> seb128: some GNOME applications uses own functions.
<seb128> why do they do this?
<bdrung> seb128: because they prefer IEC prefixes.
<bdrung> IIRC, e.g. gnome-system-monitor
<seb128> well so none of the solution you list will solve the fact that appwriters have their own idea of what prefix is the right to use
<seb128> so they will not use whatever standard api which give them something else
<bdrung> seb128: unless it can be configured to what they want.
<seb128> bdrung, having a way to configure units doesn't seem to be a win for users
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: it was debian who has updated to 3.0
<rodrigo_> hey kklimonda
<kklimonda> hey rodrigo_ :)
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: how was your day?
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, quite productive, finally could run unity and debug it :-D
<kklimonda> brr, unity.. ;)
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, I'm about to leave in a minute or 15, but ping me tomorrow and we talk about the CouchdbDocument removal, ok?
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: sure
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, doesn't work for you neither?
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: it's slow :/
<rodrigo_> yes, it is, when it runs (for me) :-)
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: I'm not even sure anymore, if that's unity being slow, or if there is a problem with compiz - when I keep terminals open in the full screen, I can barely use them..
<chrisccoulson_> lol, my daughter is very vocal tonight
<rodrigo_> full screen? you can maximize windows?
<rodrigo_> they all show up without a border, badly placed
<kklimonda> and, because most of my "desktop" usage consists of opening bunch of terminals, I've returned to the gnome+metacity.
<pitti> good night everyone!
<kklimonda> night pitti
<chrisccoulson_> good night pitti!
<rodrigo_> bye pitti
<pitti> have to get used to early day cycles again..
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: yeah, it works pretty well if a bit slow :/
<seb128> 'night pitti
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, heh, you remind me of a guy that worked on the ximian desktop, and his desktop was an emacs session :-)
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: lately that's how my desktop looks like.
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: that, or the windows xp session in virtualbox.. and full screen emacs inside of it.
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: that's you fault btw.
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: I've been happy using vim, and saying that emacs sucks
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, heh, I thought I convinced you emacs was better
<kklimonda> and then I saw you using it, and you have mentioned using both, and said that emacs is so much better for longer sessions.. so I had to actually try it, as opposed to just bashing without actually using it. And now I can't go back to vim ;)
<Laney> but :wq!
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, ah, cool!!
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, vim is great for quickly editing files from the terminal
<kklimonda> yeah, that it is
<rodrigo_> but emacs has everything you need :-D
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, the gnome-icon-theme package is failing on configure for a  gtk-update-icon-cache which is in libgtk3.0-0.  I've set it as a dep and it still fails there.  What reason might this be?  Could that be deprecated in gtk3?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, i've put libgtk3.0-dev as well same result
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, it's in the -bin
<rodrigo_> ok, time to get some fresh air, bye all
<seb128> bye rodrigo_
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, yup tried that too
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, do you have a gtk-update-icon-cache on disk?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, yes i believe so
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, dunno then, check the config.log
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, OK
<bcurtiswx_> I get a lot of /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk:31: WARNING:  simple-patchsys.mk is deprecated - please use source format 3.0 (quilt) instead  but the watch file is 3 not 2
<bcurtiswx_> dang-it here i go again
<bdmurray> Could somebody review and merge this - https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/launchpad-integration/stream/+merge/47291
<kenvandine> bratsche, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/libgrip/python_gi_override/+merge/47294
 * bratsche clicks
<bratsche> kenvandine: Merged it, thanks very much!
<kenvandine> bratsche, np
<kenvandine> doing the packaging branch now
<kenvandine> i assume we need to add a python-grip :/
<bratsche> brb, restarting.
<kenvandine> bratsche, ok i proposed the packaging branch too... but i made it prereq your python-fixup-wip branch
<bratsche> Awesome
<bratsche> So should I submit a merge request for that one?
<kenvandine> well merge your branch in trunk and merge my packaging in the ~utouch-team packaging branch
<kenvandine> then when there is another release the overrides file will get installed
<kenvandine> as well as the gir stuff
<kenvandine> bratsche, also, you should make sure you delete your locally created Grip.py file and any pyc files created
<bratsche> Okay.
 * kenvandine now does the same for libdee
<kenvandine> spreading the love for gi :)
<bratsche> kenvandine, https://code.launchpad.net/~bratsche/libgrip/python-fixage-wip/+merge/47301
<kenvandine> ok, i can't review that though :)
<bratsche> Oh okay.. let me try to get someone in utouch to review it.
<bratsche> bryceh: Do you happen to know if Natty already supports Sandy Bridge graphics?  And if not, do you know if xorg-edgers supports it already?
<bryceh> bratsche, I think there's some limited support in natty now.  But I'd focus on what's in xorg-edgers, that should provide better support
<bryceh> bratsche, also note that you may need a .38-ish kernel to get the best support
<bryceh> some of the sandybridge support was added for .38 but not .37
<bratsche> bryceh: Are we planning to use that in Natty?
<bryceh> bratsche, yes
<bratsche> Awesome.
<bratsche> Awesome to the max!
<bratsche> :)
 * bdrung pokes dobey (and poolie in #launchpad) to look at bug #524680
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 524680 in ubuntu-dev-tools "[lp-project-upload] not really ubuntu specific" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524680
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-01-25
<TheMuso> Can I safely assume the X transition is under way with all these xorg uploads?
<RAOF> Not yet.
<RAOF> These are preparatory steps, which won't break anything.
<RAOF> So that when we *do* break everything it's quicker to unbreak it :)
<TheMuso> Right.
<bryceh> TheMuso, a rough plan of attack is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Roadmap/Natty if you're interested
<TheMuso> bryceh: thanks
<bryceh> like raof said we're just tending to preparatory stuff right now
<TheMuso> yep gotcha
<RAOF> Hm.  I appear to spell build as âbulidâ with remarkable frequency.
<jhansonxi> I would like to call attention to bug #574187 which is a pam problem with Gnome screensaver and the nopasswdlogin group.  It's really annoying to disable password logins but then get locked out by the screensaver.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 574187 in gnome-screensaver "Screensaver asks password when the user is in the password-less login group" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574187
<broder> jhansonxi: the bug is currently marked as incomplete, which means that it's awaiting action from the reporter before further consideration
<broder> if the bug still exists, you could mark it as confirmed
<jhansonxi> Confirmed.  I usually don't confirm bugs as I prefer someone slightly more official to do that.
<pitti> Good morning
<desrt> pitti: good morn
<pitti> hey desrt, how are you?
<desrt> great
<desrt> on holidays for the first time in a while :)
<pitti> desrt: oh, nice! so what are you doing on IRC then? :-)
<TheMuso> pitti: My thoughts exactly, and, good morning.
<TheMuso> c
<pitti> hey TheMuso
<desrt> pitti: meh.  where else am i going to hang out? :)
<TheMuso> ...anywhere away from the computer would be my answer to that. :)
<didrocks> good morning
<mvo> good morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey mvo, how are you?
<mvo> didrocks: mostly good, hurt my knee yesterday while playing hockey, but it seems not be too bad (fingers crossed). and you?
<didrocks> mvo: oh, hockey is really a dangerous game, hope you'll feel better soon :(
<didrocks> mvo: kind of cold here, but otherwise, excellent, thanks :)
<mvo> it is sometimes :/
<mvo> happy to hear that
<pitti> hey didrocks, mvo
<pitti> mvo: oh, playing Hockey again?
<didrocks> hey pitti, playing retargetting bugs? ;)
<pitti> didrocks: cleaning up the a2 bug list a bit
<pitti> didrocks: for some reason I thought a2 was this Thursday
<didrocks> I'm not sure why QA is targetting for alphaxxx every single bugs they found and add a natty task
<didrocks> pitti: no worry, we only rely on upstream milestone in any case. I'll talk to Brian so that he stops doing that (or for beta only for very important ones)
<pitti> didrocks: merci
<mvo> pitti: yeah, when I get the chance I play :) not always easy timewise for me
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> mvo: the lucid update in bug 670629 has some confusing comments -- is it intended to show the EULA on upgrades?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 670629 in msttcorefonts "EULA not shown for Microsoft Fonts" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/670629
<didrocks> good morning rodrigo_
<mvo> pitti: yes, that is what I understand from the legal feedback we got. that we need to show even for existing installs (once)
<pitti> mvo: ok, thanks; so I'll move that to -updates, ok?
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks
<mvo> pitti: sounds good to me
<seb128> hey
<geser> didrocks: no need to review my merge request for the ~ubuntu-desktop evince packaging branch anymore, TheMuso already fixed the FTBFS with a similar fix as I proposed
<didrocks> geser: thanks for the notice
<didrocks> salut seb128
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey didrocks, pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: I'm great, thanks! (apart from being confused about when alpha-2 happens :) )
<seb128> pitti, did you mean to move those bugs milestones or was that part of the confusion?
<seb128> just reading my bugmails from the night
<pitti> seb128: I still mean it; those weren't alpha blockers
<pitti> high/alpha 2 means "we can't release a2 without this fixed", which was clearly exaggerated for most of them
<seb128> pitti, k, need to think about that, that's how dx handle their milestones
<seb128> pitti, so you just dropped target from their list
<seb128> we need a way for teams to track what they want to work on without creating noise on the r-t list
<pitti> seb128: if they are actually working on it by a2, we can put them back
<pitti> but they seemed unrealistic to fix in one day
<pitti> seb128: but they also have their milestones on their upstream tasks
<seb128> right
<didrocks> hey seb128, I'm fine, thanks, you?
<seb128> didrocks, ca va bien ici ;-)
<seb128> pitti, well, "one day", they plan another bug fix rollout on monday or tuesday
<seb128> pitti, so some days
<pitti> ah, ok
<Brumle> How do i make my clock "24 hour" system wide. What text file or envirnomentvariable do I edit, or what GUI-tool do i use?   I am fed up of fightinng  the AM/PM-ghost :-s
<pitti> Brumle: in unity or classic GNOME?
<Brumle> pitti: latest LTS :)
<pitti> Brumle: set LC_TIME to a locale which uses 24 hours
<rodrigo_> pitti, seb128: can you please have a look at this sync request from robert ->  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clutter-gst/+bug/658851 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 658851 in clutter-gst "update the clutter-gst package" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<rodrigo_> micahg, ping
<pitti> rodrigo_: sure, doing now
<rodrigo_> pitti, thanks
<Brumle> pitti: Thanks. I'll look into it :)
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone help with LP 608515 ? It is happening on my maverick system. I just tried with a natty VM, and that problem does not happen. What I fear is that the problem would still persist even when I upgrade my system to natty.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 608515 in empathy "Can't establish audio or video calls" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/608515
<pitti> chrisccoulson: good morning
<pitti> chrisccoulson: say, do you know if we currently build firefox with some special debug options or so? it has felt like a tarpit for the last weeks at least
<pitti> switching tabs, trying to mark text, and other actions takes 5 seconds
<pitti> (very often, not always)
<pitti> it spins up the CPU to 100% during that
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti
<chrisccoulson> no, we haven't changed anything recently
<chrisccoulson> pitti - you don't use the nvidia driver too do you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: intel
<chrisccoulson> pitti - does it happen on a new profile?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it's never really been snappy, but right now it makes you want to throw the thing out of the window..
<pitti> chrisccoulson: checking
<seb128> pitti, I don't get that issue on intel video there
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, after restarting it seems to be fast, and then gets worse over time
<pitti> but my previous restart was about 2 h ago, so I'll check it with a new profile and let that run for a while
<pitti> didrocks: is it intended that libzeitgeist and zeitgeist-extensions want to move to universe? don't we need those for unity?
<didrocks> pitti: I think it's because unity-place-* aren't recommended anymore by unity as they were uninstallable, will be fixed with this week release
<pitti> ah, I see
<chrisccoulson> pitti - do you know what keeps swt-gtk in main? i looked at it's rdepends yesterday and saw only universe packages
<chrisccoulson> it's the only thing keeping xulrunner-1.9.2 in main now
<pitti> -- natty/main build deps on libswt-gtk-3.5-java:
<pitti> gwt
<pitti> -- natty/main build deps on libswt-gtk-3.5-java-gcj:
<pitti> gwt
<pitti> that's it
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, i didn't check the build-deps. but there are no run-time dependencies keeping it in?
<pitti> none that I can see
<pitti> didrocks: "appdevs-desktop-n-quickly Medium finish /opt work regarding the decisions above" -> is this still actually blocked? Is there still something to decide here?
<didrocks> pitti: there is still a pending email sent to the application review board without any answer. I need to resent one
<lan3y> pitti: just did verification for 666511/lucid-proposed
<lan3y> err, why this nick?
<pitti> Laney: ah, thank you1
<Laney> np
<Laney> I fixed it for squeeze ages ago, would have taken care of Lucid too but it was already uploaded by then so slipped by me
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, i just saw your e-mails about main being frozen ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: the followup as well, I hope?
 * pitti <- brown paperbag
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i saw that too :)
<chrisccoulson> heh :-)
<didrocks> pitti: more coffee in the morning ;)
<nessita> pitti: hi there! you scared me, *a lot*
 * pitti hugs nessita  -- was a nice wakeup call, wasn't it?
<nessita> :-D
<nessita> I was already thinking how will I convince you all to upload a few packages :-P
<didrocks> (that's pitti's technic to get more WI fixed in a small amount of time ;))
<didrocks> hey nessita!
<nessita> hi didrocks!
<rodrigo_> hi nessita
<nessita> hi rodrigo_, how are you?
<rodrigo_> nessita, feeling cold, I just came back from some errands on my motorbike, so hands frozen :-)
<rodrigo_> nessita, what about you?
<nessita> all the opposite, my hands are not cold and the weather is freaking hot. Though yesterday it rained a lot so today is a little bit fresher than yesterday
<rodrigo_> right, summer there now :)
<rodrigo_> pitti, hmm, "disable hibernate in the UI: DONE"? why is it disabled?
<pitti> rodrigo_: was discussed at uds; apparently it's failing for a lot of people, and is slow
<rodrigo_> it's slow yes
<pitti> our OEM guys disable it for every rollout they do, too
<pitti> apparently the major laptop manufacturer want it that way, or so
<rodrigo_> ok
<chrisccoulson> pitti - how strange, i've also just noticed firefox running really slowly on my system, but that only started this morning
<chrisccoulson> and nothing changed recently :/
<rodrigo_> talking about updates, I haven't updated for a couple of weeks
<rodrigo_> is it safe to apt-get upgrade now?
<GunnarHj> pitti: I solved the C code problem I mentioned last week, so the MPs linked to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/693337 are ready for review.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 693337 in language-selector "Menus for choosing language should have one option per available translation" [Undecided,In progress]
<pitti> GunnarHj: hi! great, thanks!
<pitti> GunnarHj: was on the gnome hackfest last week, so I didn't have time to review
 * pitti -> back in 45 mins
<GunnarHj> pitti: Yes, I knew about the hackfest. :-)
<pitti> seb128: argh, you forgot to remind me for the meeting reminder :)
 * pitti sends now
<bcurtiswx_> is unity supposed to have a battery indicator?
<chrisccoulson> bcurtiswx_ - perhaps
<cyphermox> only if you're not connected to power, i think
<chrisccoulson> do you have a battery? ;)
<didrocks> dpm_: I'll fix the missing files later today
<bcurtiswx_> chrisccoulson, im on my laptop and i just unpluged it
<bcurtiswx_> no battery
<cyphermox> hmm. maybe check your settings in gnome-power-preferences
<dpm_> didrocks, cool, thanks ;)
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx, there you can set when you want to show a battery indicator
<bcurtiswx_> ah ya know what, could be GNOME3 PPA.. i have that gnome-power-manager
<bcurtiswx_> chrisccoulson, cyphermox.  a laugh for today http://paste.ubuntu.com/558123/
<bcurtiswx_> seems GPM still has some GTK2 symbols
<chrisccoulson> ah, gnome-power-preferences has gone away now
<chrisccoulson> it's a g-c-c panel instead
<chrisccoulson> that's why you see that :)
<chrisccoulson> i'd imagine those symbols are in another library it's linking against
<mterry> tedg, I have some indicator nit fixes lined up.  When is next release?
<tedg> mterry, Thursday.
<mterry> tedg, ok, hopefully I'll have merges filed today.  Nothing major yet.  I'm trying to clear out the critical warnings when running the panel service
<tedg> mterry, Sweet!  Good stuff.
<mterry> for example, I found the darn code that prints out the 'isn't an int32 variant' :)
<bcurtiswx_> chrisccoulson, http://imagebin.org/134333
<bcurtiswx_> chrisccoulson, my battery is unplugged mind you
<tedg> mterry, Cool, it's easiest if you put each fix in it's own branch.  What I usually do then is have a single packaging branch that merges those in so that I can test it on my own machine, but then I can propose them all separately.
<mterry> tedg, ok
<mterry> tedg, they're in lots of different packages anyway
<tedg> mterry, Heh, that makes it easier to keep them separate :)
<dpm_> hi chrisccoulson, do you think you could have a look at adding the FF translations to the package as we discussed in the Rally?
<pitti> mvo: do we still need software-properties-gtk in the software-center world, or was this integrated into sc?
<pitti> mvo: if so, want me to port it to pygi?
<nessita> hi guys, can I (please) have a sponsorship for https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/natty/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-1.1.9/+merge/47399?
<seb128> hey nessita
<seb128> nessita, does it fix the sso dialog on session start? ;-)
<seb128> nessita, I can do the sponsoring
<mvo> pitti: feel free to port, but we plan a big push toward a better UI for O
<mvo> pitti: its still needed and will be needed in the future
<pitti> mvo: ok
<mvo> but the UI and the code will change as it will (finally) be ported to policykit :)
<chrisccoulson> dpm - yeah. i want to figure out what mercurial repo they use to build the xpi's really though, and use that rather than shipping xpi's
<nessita> seb128: nopes, the release of u1client will. It should go out today, we already requested dobey to do it. We had to delayed it due to some issues on syncdaemon
<nessita> seb128: sorry :-(
<chrisccoulson> dpm - the issue with merging xpi's in to the firefox source is that we always build the firefox pre-releases, and there are no xpi's at this stage
<chrisccoulson> i don't want to block updates on waiting for translation xpi's ;)
<pitti> mvo: are you a big fan of SimpleGtkBuilderApp? I. e. do you want to keep it, or can I kill it while porting?
<dpm_> chrisccoulson, I thought XPIs were always at http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/ - that's where we get them when we upload them manually
<chrisccoulson> dpm_ - that is for release builds. we prepare our source tarball and uploads before they are released
<chrisccoulson> i'm just doing b10 now
<seb128> nessita, no worry, I was just checking because jasoncwarner asked me if that was going to be fixed for alpha2, it happens on the livecd still
<nessita> seb128: yeah, it will
<dpm_> chrisccoulson, ok, so if we cannot import them like that, what about other options of automating the import? What about what we talked about using the same method to generate the en-US template to build the xpis? We've uploaded the translations manually this time, but I do not follow the FF releases that closely, and we cannot guarantee that they are manually imported before every upload
<chrisccoulson> dpm_ - building the xpi's using the code from mercurial seems like the right way. i just need to figure out their release process for translations, and also whether the build system supports building multiple languages too
<seb128> nessita, happy birthday ;-)
<nessita> seb128: thanks! am I getting a cake too???
<chrisccoulson> happy birthday nessita!
<pitti> ooh, happy birthday nessita! *hug*
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - it's not your birthday today too?
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> nessita, next time we see each others maybe you get one ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I don't think it's nessita's one either ;-)
<nessita> awesome!
<seb128> I just sponsored her update
<chrisccoulson> lol
<nessita> which is like a birthday present
 * seb128 hugs nessita
 * nessita hugs seb128
 * desrt /join #hugfest
<dpm_> chrisccoulson, sounds good. It would be awesome if we could automate this. Is there anything I can help with?
<dpm_> (that doesn't require becoming an expert in the Mozilla build system? ;) )
<dpm_> felicidades nessita!
<nessita> :-)
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: I may not have time today to talk about CouchdbDocument - I'll be on call for at least an hour or so, and I know you finish the job around 6pm or so. If I don't get back in an hour or, can we talk tomorrow?
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, sure :-)
<kklimonda> or so
<kklimonda> ;)
<dobey> KenEdwards: you lied.
<dobey> err
<dobey> kenvandine: ^^ you lied rather.
<dobey> KenEdwards: sorry :)
<kenvandine> ?
<dobey> kenvandine: midori doesn't only do the yellow bar by strcmp on 'https' in the url
<kenvandine> dobey, i just read that in a bug report :)
<KenEdwards> dobey, np ;-)
<kenvandine> dobey, have they implemented a UI for managing them?
<dobey> kenvandine: it's actually tri-state with newer libsoup/webkit. it checks the SoupFlags on the message for _TRUSTED_CERT
<dobey> kenvandine: no, there's no way to manage them yet, but untrusted certs it makes the urlbar background red instead of yellow
<kenvandine> ah... better than nothing
<kenvandine> someone should do the same in epiphany
<dobey> although i think it might still be doing that wrong, but haven't looked into it much further yet
<kenvandine> from python i don't seem to have access to the SoupRequest
<dobey> and midori crashes more than windows with a virus
<dobey> and it's not really the ui i want, so still going to bring back encompass
<dobey> kenvandine: you can probably do the same thing midori does, from python, if you use introspection instead of bindings?
<kenvandine> dobey, yeah, should be able too
<kenvandine> not sure which is more work though
<kenvandine> doing that, or opening the default browser for oauth
<dobey> does it matter?
<dobey> the user experience should be more important than what is more work
<xw4400> hi, i'd like to replace my nvidia video card to a better one. How do i check which card is currently actuall installed?
<dobey> xw4400: #ubuntu is the help channel, you will probably get better response there.
<xw4400> ah, ok. This is a dev channel?
<ari-tczew> xw4400: some like this
<pitti> nessita: still need the sponsoring? (was in meeting until now)
<nessita> pitti: not right now, seb128 did it
<pitti> ah, great
<nessita> I will need another one for u1cp in a few hours
<ari-tczew> wow! didrocks is an archive admin!
<ari-tczew> promotion?
<pitti> more like "dumped on him while he wasn't on guard"
<didrocks> :)
 * bcurtiswx_ bows down to didrocks ;)
 * seb128 dumps taks on didrocks, welcome!
<seb128> tasks
<didrocks> seb128: nooooooooooooooooooooooooo :-)
<didrocks> I still don't have my shell access, so I can't do anything :)
<seb128> you can NEW from the webui
<didrocks> oh right, I should have a look to that NEW thing :)
<didrocks> session restart, brb
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, is there a known problem where firefox becomes "undecorated"
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, what problem? not that i'm aware of ;)
<kenvandine> for some reason firefox just lost it window decorations... but none of my other windows did
<kenvandine> it is still working fine though
<kenvandine> gotta be a compiz bug :)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, that sounds odd ;)
<kenvandine> but weird...
<chrisccoulson> does it come back if you switch to full screen and back again? (ie, hit F11 twice)
<chrisccoulson> oh, i've just noticed that full screen isn't really full screen anymore
<chrisccoulson> unity bug though ;)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, oh... so is full screen like 2/3 of the screen with no decorations?
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, the panel is still displayed with full screen now
<kenvandine> not for me
<kenvandine> but i don't have decorations when not full screen :)
<pitti> DING DING DING meeting o'clock
<mterry> hello!
<kenvandine> :)
 * kenvandine waves
<pitti> no Jason today?
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> LCA
<tremolux> heya
<didrocks> hey
<pitti> bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter: meeting time
<Riddell> hi
<chrisccoulson> hi!
<rodrigo_> hi
<seb128> hey
<pitti> apparently no actions from previous meeting
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-01-25 for the current reports about Unity etc.
<pitti> kenvandine: do you have a parnter update?
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> i should put that on the wiki too :)
<pitti> partner, too
<kenvandine> anyway
<kenvandine> of U1
<kenvandine> for U1
<kenvandine> syncdaemon performance improvements, should land end of next week
<kenvandine> unity integration has begun, should land in time for FF assuming all goes well with the libunity api they need
<kenvandine> shotwell integration work will start next week, minimal work required, also should land in time for FF
<pitti> nice
<kenvandine> DX:
<pitti> like, publishing photos to the cloud?
<kenvandine> libunity landing this week, hopefully enough to get the U1 team comfortable with the API
<kenvandine> pitti, basic
<kenvandine> making sure photos can be synced easily
<kenvandine> like i think things like revision info and metadata about photos
<tkamppeter> hi
<kenvandine> the other big thing from DX this week is work on moving menu parsing out of appmenu-gtk and libappindicator and into dbusmenu-gtk
<kenvandine> which should help with bug triaging and hopefully fixing
<kenvandine> that is all i have, questions? comments?
<seb128> kenvandine, libunity landed last week no?
<didrocks> kenvandine: (libunity already landed btw)
<seb128> kenvandine, well at least didrocks uploaded and I reviewed it
<kenvandine> yeah... but not with the new PAPIs
<kenvandine> APIs
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> i think the beginning of the new APIs are landing this week
<seb128> so new update you mean
<kenvandine> yeah, not new package :)
<seb128> kenvandine, is it worth trying to fix appmenu issues until the parsing update lands?
<seb128> like lpi menu items not working
<kenvandine> don't think so
<seb128> ok
<chrisccoulson> if there are appmenu issues to debug btw, i could take a look at them whilst this stuff is all fresh in memory :)
<chrisccoulson> i think a few people mentioned at the rally there were some long standing bugs
<seb128> there is indeed, feel free to pick on the bug list
<kenvandine> there are, i think tedg hopes to get that code in one place so it is easier to triage and fix
<chrisccoulson> cool, i'll take a look
<seb128> not sure how much that will be useful with the refactoring though
<seb128> so maybe check with ted to get the updated code before starting on those
<chrisccoulson> sure, no problem
<kenvandine> oh, one more thing
<pitti> kenvandine: so you'll add to the wiki as well? thanks
<kenvandine> libappindicator gtk3 port is up for review now
<kenvandine> so should land this week
<pitti> \o/
<pitti> happy to test
<seb128> great
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> kenvandine, up to upstream review, i.e ted? or packaging one?
<kenvandine> pitti, will do
<seb128> I can help to review
<kenvandine> upstream
<seb128> ok
<pitti> didrocks: do you want to paste/say something extra/discuss unity updates?
<didrocks> well, people can read on the wiki I guess
<didrocks> but I have a BREAKING news!
<seb128> we need to read now? how boring!
<didrocks> (which is more a fix in fact) :)
<didrocks> ok, copy/paste then, just for seb128 ;)
<didrocks> New unity landed this week
<didrocks> * a bunch of bug fixes and the dash has its first release (really early prototype though)!
<didrocks> a lot of accessibility improvments as well.
<didrocks> we got an intermediate upload to fix an annoying "invisible unclickable window" bug.
<didrocks> the places have been rebuilt to drop some packages from the archives, the big come back is for this week release.
<didrocks> still some stacking issues (menu disappearing, windows not clickable) in compiz. Apparently, there is a fix proposed, so fortunately, this will be fixed this week.
<didrocks> also, some specific issue with nvidia card (black screen) still there, as well as launchers weird behavior in some cases.
<didrocks> libunity is now a new source to make the foundation API more unrelated to the view.
<didrocks> -> Next week, on your almost natty alpha2 computer:
<didrocks> full release upload planned on Thursday with working places (\o/), miscellaneous improvements and still bug fixes.
<pitti> didrocks: do we need to discuss the detection? right now it seems to be painfully expensive
<didrocks> another "final" upload on Monday evening/Tuesday morning (european time) with crusty fixes and small incremental changes for getting ready for alpha2.
<didrocks> a compiz upload which should speed the startup time and fixes some annoying bugs (no ABI break planned).
<didrocks> -> misc:
<didrocks> we know we have a lot of false positives of "your computer can't run unity" because the detection tools take more than 3s to answer on a cold cache (and the timeout was 0.5s, then 1s). For now, I'll upload a gnome-session package with a timeout of 5s for the release. The detection tool loads 15 MiB of libraries which can explain that. Some work on that planned for alpha3.
<didrocks> support of multiple fallbacks added to gnome-session. So, if you install unity-2d, the fallback for the unity session is unity-2d instead of gnome-classic without a warning message in that case.
<seb128> didrocks, sorry I was just joking since IRC or wiki we need to read anyway but thanks ;-)
<seb128> lot of nice things coming this week
<didrocks> first the news ;) the stacking issue (some menu disappearing in the background or window taht you can't click) is fixed!
<chrisccoulson> nice!
<didrocks> just a few minutes ago :)
<mterry> yay
 * chrisccoulson hugs didrocks
<tremolux> \o/
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: hugs smspillaz rather :)
<didrocks> he put a lot of effort in it
<didrocks> congrats to him!
 * chrisccoulson hugs smspillaz
<kenvandine> yay smspillaz!
<didrocks> wasn't trivial ;)
<tremolux> nice smspillaz!
<didrocks> pitti: re: detection
<pitti> smspillaz: rock!
<didrocks> pitti: one of the issue is that we are linking against 15Mb (the full nux stack)
<pitti> didrocks: what does it currently do?
<didrocks> just for basically checking opengl capability + lspci
<pitti> it's not enough to check the graphics driver and available X.org modules?
<didrocks> apparently not, they want to ensure the full nux is woking
<didrocks> working*
<didrocks> and make some tests
<didrocks> again, the tests are not expensive
<didrocks> initializing nux is
<smspillaz> pitti: :)
<pitti> didrocks: so in sum they are
<didrocks> yeah :)
<didrocks> so, I've talked about it with jay
<didrocks> we'll figure out for alpha3
<pitti> ok, thanks
<didrocks> if it's still expensive, the plan is to run it in gdm
<didrocks> but even 3s is a lotâ¦
<pitti> such a thing should require .1 s..
<didrocks> and to cache it (I can patch gnome-session for picking it pretty easily)
<didrocks> well, the gnome one is taking .3s
<didrocks> (on cold cache)
<pitti> ok, let's discuss off-meeting
<didrocks> right, in a nutshell, we have a workaround for alpha2
<pitti> looking forward to places
<didrocks> yeah :)
<pitti> tremolux: do you have something extra to say/discuss wrt. s-c?
<pitti> nice work on startup speed! Is http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/software-center/mini10-startup/startup-times.png created automagically now?
<tremolux> nope, unless anybody has questions ?
<pitti> < 3 s is great
<tremolux> pitti: we still run it by hand  :)
<tremolux> pitti: but yes, thanks!  it feels really fast now
<tremolux> pitti: also, thanks for your cold-cache script, I tried it and it seems to do the trick
<mterry> tremolux, I thought ratings and reviews was supposed to drop last week?
<pitti> tremolux: nice
<mterry> tremolux, but it's next week?
<tremolux> mterry: yes, mvo was at a sprint all week so we held off
<tremolux> mterry: in other words, I mis-promised  ;)
<tremolux> mterry: but we will have it for alpha 2
<mterry> np, just curious
<tremolux> sure, np
<pitti> Riddell: anything to announce/discuss in Kubuntu land?
<Riddell> hi
<pitti> Riddell: still trouble with gstreamer/gvfs and the like?
<Riddell>  * 4.6.0 being tested now, due for upload tomorrow morning
<Riddell>  * Digikam tested now, due for upload tomorrow morning
<Riddell>  * KDevelop being packaged, due for upload tomorrow morning
<Riddell>  * 17 milestoned bugs for alpha 2, they won't all make it but we can try, http://goo.gl/yGhJd
<Riddell>  * slow but steady progress being made on todo items https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
<pitti> wohoo, release
<Riddell> slomo said he'd remove the depends on gvfs, and I blacklisted it for now anyway
<Riddell> s/depends/recommends/
<pitti> I got libproxy to build after fixing the uninstallability, so tomorrow's CDs should be a bit smaller
<Riddell> we removed geoio-database which should save a wee bit too
<Riddell> blacklisted rather
<pitti> Riddell: cool; as already said, feel free to upload that right away; we can sync the next time anyway then
<pitti> thanks
<pitti> any other business?
<pitti> so, thanks everyone!
<tremolux> thanks all
<didrocks> thanks
<seb128> thanks
<jcastro> seb128: do we have -shell PPA instructions for people yet?
<seb128> jcastro, don't ask me?
<seb128> jcastro, ricotz might know
<seb128> jcastro, the GNOME3 ppa doesn't have gnome-shell yet so not sure how we could have instructions
 * jcastro nods
<ricotz> seb128, jcastro, there are no official introstructions besides some forum-guides using my ppa
<seb128> ricotz, do you plan to get it in the gnome3 ppa as well?
<ricotz> seb128, i could look into it, now that clutter 1.5 is available
<jcastro> ricotz: can you ping me when it's in there? i'd like to sort out all the people trying random blog entries with older PPAs and all that
<ricotz> jcastro, yeah i can
<seb128> ricotz, is there any depends you still need?
<seb128> how do you do daily builds if the versions required are not there?
<ricotz> seb128, gjs and mutter
<ricotz> seb128, i also updated clutter
<seb128> why can't you updated those in gnome3?
<ricotz> seb128, you can see which packages are needed looking in the ppa
<seb128> ricotz, couldn't you update those in the team ppa rather than in yours?
<seb128> so it would benefit others...
<ricotz> seb128, maintaining the git snapshots is easier than document all changes of every release :P
<ricotz> seb128, so you want the git snapshots in the gnome3 ppa?
<seb128> heh
<seb128> not really no
<seb128> there is a gjs tarball every 5 weeks or so
<seb128> seems it should be doable to package tarballs in the ppa no?
<ricotz> do you know the reason for the different handling of xulrunner between debian and ubuntu
<seb128> you mean libmozjs?
<seb128> it's not a public library and mozilla doesn't garanty stability
<seb128> it's broken to ship it as a normal library
<ricotz> seb128, yeah that is possible, it is quite near the debian packaging (gjs, mutter, clutter)
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, yes. debian carry patches to version libmozjs and install it in /usr/lib. we don't to maintain ABI compatibility with upstream
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, ok. didnt know that they maintain the abi stability
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, well, there is no ABI stability really. debian just add a patch to add a version number to libmozjs.so, and they bump the version when ABI breaks
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, ok, and ubuntu didnt wanted to go that way?
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, we used to, but we try and stay as close as possible to upstream
<ricotz> alright
<chrisccoulson> by default, libmozjs isn't even built as a separate library anymore
<chrisccoulson> it's all bundled statically in libxul
<Amaranth> Of course, the way Debian is doing it is the way it should be done upstream as well :)
<chrisccoulson> Amaranth, not really. upstream don't ship spidermonkey as a separate product. it's part of the toolkit instead
<chrisccoulson> if they shipped it as a library for people to link against, then perhaps ;)
<chrisccoulson> that might happen in the future, but i wouldn't really want to maintain yet another package
<Amaranth> Huh, I guess the webkit stuff is the same way
<Amaranth> You have to link to all of it to get JSC
<ricotz> seb128, anyway, i will try to look into uploaded the releases
<chrisccoulson> Amaranth, oh, i didn't know that
<seb128> ricotz, thanks
<micahg> well, upstream seems to be leaning in the direction of properly versioning spidermonkey
<chrisccoulson> that sounds like the same for mozilla now (having to link against libxul), but we actually changed the build config to still build libmozjs
<chrisccoulson> gnome-shell linking against libxul would be hideous for startup time ;)
<Amaranth> chrisccoulson: Yeah, there is just a /usr/lib/libwebkitgtk-1.0.so.0
<chrisccoulson> that sucks! :)
<ricotz> seb128, could you ping robert to update clutter to 1.5.14?
<chrisccoulson> micahg, yeah, as a separate product though
<chrisccoulson> i don't want to maintain another copy of spidermonkey ;)
<Amaranth> I still can't believe GNOME is going forward with depending on two browser engines, seems weird
<micahg> chrisccoulson: I thought it would be in tree and we can just check the appropriate files on build
<seb128> ricotz, he's at  a conference this week (lca)
<ricotz> seb128, ah, there is one thing with clutter which breaks the build of gnome-shell, it is the rdepends patch which removes x11 from clutter-1.0.pc
<seb128> ricotz, I will try to do it
<ricotz> (the backend/frontend patch)
<seb128> ricotz, is that coming from debian?
<ricotz> seb128, no
<ricotz> bbl
<seb128> ok, will check that
<pitti> mvo: got software-properties-gtk mostly working with pygi; missing is the drag&drop (that only works with gtk3, but no biggie IMHO), and getting the XID of a window (not available; but I tested the apt cache updating, and the main window is disabled anyway, just like in the current version)
<seb128> kenvandine, mterry: could one of you try to figure why launchpad-integration failed to build?
<seb128> it's a gir issue
<seb128> didn't happen on my box but I'm not uptodate with changes from this week
<mterry> seb128, sure
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - bug 707543 - quality report!
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 707543 in gnome-terminal "no work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/707543
<chrisccoulson> it looks like a firefox bug ;)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> go users
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you should stop reading bug reports now ;-)
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i almost have already ;)
<chrisccoulson> i only noticed that because it's my most recent e-mail
<pitti> good night everyone!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<kenvandine> haha
<didrocks> good night pitti
<seb128> seems the launchpad guys fixed the bug watch code
<seb128> it's spamming me now
<dobey> kenvandine: ping. do you know why rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store has rhythmbox-plugins as a Depends?
<didrocks> ok, time for dinner, see you tomorrow!
<kenvandine> dobey, i don't know off hand
<dobey> kenvandine: hrmm, ok
<kenvandine> dobey, rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store had been added before rhythmbox-plugins was split out of rhythmbox
<dobey> ok, weird
<bryceh> seb128, are you seeing bug #707478 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 707478 in launchpad "Freedesktop bug watches are (incorrectly) updated with "importance unknown"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/707478
<nessita> pitti: hey, you still around to sponsor an upload?
<seb128> nessita, he's not
<nessita> seb128: oh, ok. Would you be able to?
<nessita> if not, I'll ask again tomorrow
<seb128> nessita, yes I can do that
<seb128> bryceh, I will need to check I just got spammed by bug watches updates today and deleted those
<seb128> so I will need to wait for extra ones
<nessita> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/natty/ubuntuone-control-panel/ubuntuone-control-panel-0.8.0/+merge/47447 thanks!
<bryceh> seb128, probably you won't get more
<seb128> bryceh, I still have those concerning the team assigned bugs though
<seb128> which seems to confirm your bug
<seb128> nessita, you're welcome
<bryceh> seb128, I also got spammed, but all the mails seemed to be from freedesktop.org's bugzilla, so it may be localized to just that tracker.  If you're seeing it on any GNOME bugs, that would be an important data point
<seb128> bryceh, no, it seems the GNOME just got a normal update
<seb128> it's likely that the update didn't run for a while has they got it working today
<seb128> those have a correct status it seems
<seb128> bryceh, but I can confirm your fdo issue
<bryceh> seb128, thanks
<mvo> pitti: nice, thanks
<seb128> nessita, ok, uploaded, ignore the email you will get about ubuntu-sso-client_1.1.8, I ran dput on the wrong file in my ubuntuone sponsoring dir
<nessita> seb128: thanks! I'll be testing on my prisitine natty box when the binary is built
<seb128> ok
<bryceh> seb128, btw anything more we need to do on bug #675622 so it can get a sync?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 675622 in glew "Please sync glew 1.5.7-1 from Debian experimental (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/675622
<mterry> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/launchpad-integration/fix-packages/+merge/47453
<seb128> bryceh, subcribe ubuntu-archive or ping Riddell it's his archive day
<seb128> mterry, why can't you upload that?
<mterry> seb128, it's not in ubuntu-desktop set
<seb128> mterry, email cjwatson ;-)
<mterry> seb128, OK  :)
<seb128> mterry, did you check it's not in the desktop set?
<seb128> it's surprising
<mterry> seb128, I did, let me double-confirm
<mterry> seb128, ahem, my mistake.
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> bigon, there is no need to manually sync your updates yourself, sync request are reviewed daily nowadays
<seb128> mterry, is that change a recent one? is that likely to be requiring updating other sources?
<bigon> seb128: ah ok
<mterry> seb128, I'm not sure.  gobject-introspection got a new upstream version updated on the 13th, it could have happened then
<mterry> seb128, I'm not sure exactly how it used to behave.  I'm a little confused it used to work as it was -- not sure how it could have known to link against gtk3 when building the typelib
<mterry> or maybe it didn't check for missing symbols.  That's probably more likely.  And it was just broken the way we did it, but didn't stop the build
<seb128> ok, the fix seems correct I was just wondering if we should review other sources for similar issues
<mterry> seb128, right, and perhaps it would be wise, but we don't necessarily have reason to believe other people screwed up like I did when setting that _PACKAGES line originally.  We'll hear about it when they FTBFS, eh?  :)
<seb128> right, doko was speaking about doing an archive rebuild test again so let's see what's coming from it
<seb128> kenvandine, gtk+2 still fail to build btw
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> built in pbuilder for me... i'll look
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<bcurtiswx_> empathy natty 2.32.2 looks for gcr-0 , has that been renamed?
<bcurtiswx_> libgcr-0 , libgcr-3-0, libgcr-dev
<bcurtiswx_> all tried
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, check gnome-keyring in the ppa but could be that the version is not recent enough
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, this has to be without the gnome3 ppa
<bcurtiswx_> im backporting some patches to the version that will be in natty
<seb128> oh 2.32
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, yup
<seb128> it's libgcr-dev
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, yea it's installed and configure doesn't see it :-\
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, what error do you get?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, i wonder if since i have the PPA as a apt-source if there's something with that.. lemme get the config.log
<seb128> it's likely
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, http://pastebin.com/YucxwAA6
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, what libgcr-dev version is installed?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, ah ha Installed: 2.92.92.is.2.91.4-0ubuntu1~build2
<seb128> ok, that's the issue
<seb128> disable the ppa source for it
<seb128> ok, I need to go, see you later
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, OK have a good night
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, hey dude
<rickspencer3> so, I notice evince is not using the app menu?
<rickspencer3> should I file a bug?
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
<kenvandine> one sec
<kenvandine> it is for me...
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, launched from firefox?
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, correct
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-4.0.head/revision/740
<chrisccoulson> you just reminded me ;)
<chrisccoulson> oops, the changelog entry doesn't make sense ;)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, haha... as always, a firefox bug :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, the "unset UBUNTU_MENUPROXY" but was inherited from the nightly builds, which need it because appmenu-gtk makes them crash on startup
<chrisccoulson> so.....
<chrisccoulson> appmenu-gtk bug!
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, ok, just uploading a fix for that now
<bcurtiswx_> where is the gnome certificates file located?
<chrisccoulson> bcurtiswx_, what do you mean?
<bcurtiswx_> i can never remember, cacertificates.ca or something like that.
<broder> bcurtiswx_: i don't think gnome maintains a certificate keychain of its own separate from the system. the system's certificates are maintained by the ca-certificates package
<chrisccoulson> bcurtiswx_ - it depends, there is more than one source of root certs
<chrisccoulson> ca-certificates being one, and NSS being another
<bcurtiswx_> it ca-certificates
<bcurtiswx_> it's*
<chrisccoulson> well
<chrisccoulson> evo uses NSS
<bryceh> are we doing the Eastern Desktop Meeting today?  I know it's an AU holiday so pretty much everyone's gone :-)
<bcurtiswx_> chrisccoulson, /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt
<chrisccoulson> bcurtiswx_ - what are you trying to do?
<bcurtiswx_> chrisccoulson, empathy is looking for the ca certificate file  it has(d) a with-ca-certs='' with 2.32.2 (not with 2.91.x)
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, what took so long?
<rickspencer3> I ask a quetsion at 13:31, and you are uploading a fix 13:55
<rickspencer3> a 24 minute lag :)
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, network ;)
<chrisccoulson> ffox is nearly 60MB
<chrisccoulson> it takes a while to upload on my connection ;)
<rickspencer3> haha
<rickspencer3> thanks chrisccoulson
<rickspencer3> you da' man
<chrisccoulson> :)
<rickspencer3> bryceh, is it safe for me to dist-upgrade right now?
<rickspencer3> or did your new xorg goo start kicking in?
<bryceh> rickspencer3, new libdrm and mesa are in
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> maybe I'll wait until Friday ;)
<bryceh> we have no reason to think that there are problems, but you know how mesa and libdrm updates are ;-)
<rickspencer3> get the new xorg and the next unity stuff
<rickspencer3> oth, maybe I should take the plunge :)
<rickspencer3> I can always fall back to my netbook
<rickspencer3> bryceh, btw, the xorg team is absolutely rocking ...
<rickspencer3> edgers seems like a really fun and engaged group of contributors too
<bryceh> rickspencer3, yep it's going good this cycle
<bryceh> rickspencer3, which is fortunate since Unity and HWE need X solid
<rickspencer3> for sure
<kklimonda> how is app-install-data-ubuntu created?
<chrisccoulson> woah, i only just uploaded ffox 4 b10, and mozilla are talking about starting b11 builds on friday!
<chrisccoulson> they're serious about a feb release
<kklimonda> if I want to add something there who should I poke about it? mvo?
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, it's in bzr somewhere
<chrisccoulson> just grab it, add what you need and then ping mvo :)
<chrisccoulson> i can't remember where it is though ;)
<kklimonda> no proble, I'll find it
<kklimonda> thanks
<lamalex> hey guys
<chrisccoulson> hi lamalex
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i am current and it seems fine for me
<rickspencer3> coolio
<rickspencer3> so I have to make a dbus service file to integrate with the sound menu?
<bryceh> jaytaoko, welcome to desktop
<jaytaoko> hello!
<bryceh> jaytaoko, I guess due to the AU holiday the meeting didn't get started, but you and I can chat about unity bugs now if you want
<bryceh> jaytaoko, you probably saw my email that libdrm and mesa are uploaded now
<jaytaoko> bryceh: actually I didn't
<bryceh> those are pretty much the same versions that have been in xorg-edgers (but rebased against actual releases)
<jaytaoko> bryceh: when did you sent it?
<lamalex> bryceh, I'm working on the autopilot rewrite now. It will be about 100 times more awesome in a couple of days
<lamalex> RAOF, ^
<bryceh> jaytaoko, aha then good thing we're meeting!
<karlt> i'm trying to track down an issue with a 1x1 InputOnly window that seems to follow the mouse around the desktop (except when the mouse is grabbed or something)
<bryceh> jaytaoko, it was sent to ubuntu-x@ (which you should subscribe to) and to ubuntu-devel@
<karlt> anyone know what app might be managing that?
<bryceh> jaytaoko, please forward it to any unity/compiz lists where you think others may have missed it
<jaytaoko> bryceh: sure
<karlt> it is the child of the window with the pointer
<bryceh> jaytaoko, hopefully you guys have been running xorg-edgers so already have gotten testing done on it, but if not then you can now :-)
<jaytaoko> bryceh: I upgraded my intel system, it has the new xorg now
<bryceh> jaytaoko, we will be following up with xserver 1.10 upgrade in a couple days probably
<jaytaoko> bryceh:  I am compiling Unity on it
<bryceh> that will break driver ABIs so we'll be rebuilding all of those too
<jaytaoko> bryceh: ok
<bryceh> and we have new -intel, -ati, and -nouveau we've been holding off on since they need new mesa and so on
<bryceh> so... lot of change coming this week
<jaytaoko> bryceh: I want to find out if the glsl compiler is working as expected for intel
<jaytaoko> bryceh: about fglrx, have you had some update from Felix?
<bryceh> jaytaoko, *nod* I've heard there were some last minute changes there (due to licensing or something)
<jaytaoko> bryceh: licensing about the glsl compiler?
<bryceh> jaytaoko, yes he mentioned wanting to put you into direct contact with one of their engineers in China
<bryceh> jaytaoko, but seems this is going to be heavily NDA'd so best for you to work through Henry Hall on that
<jaytaoko> bryceh: alright!
<jaytaoko> bryceh: I wonder if on their own they were able to discover something about the fglrx driver.
<jaytaoko> bryceh: there is this unknown regarding the texture_from_pixmap extension
<jaytaoko> bryceh: according to sam, on the fglrx driver we cannot have direct rendering + texture_from_pixmap extension
<bryceh> *nod*
<bryceh> jaytaoko, will you be able to work around that via blacklisting the driver from doing direct rendering for the time being?
<jaytaoko> bryceh: ok
<jaytaoko> bryceh: we have to detect that a system is using the fglrx driver
<bryceh> jaytaoko, fwiw when we update to xserver 1.10 that will permanently break fglrx until AMD releases an updated driver to us
<jaytaoko> bryceh: :-(
<bryceh> in the past they've sent us an update right prior to release, so there won't be much time left for testing after that
<bryceh> so you may want to hang onto the current daily iso for testing
<bryceh> also AMD may be able to provide NDA'd access to the testing driver; talk with Henry if you need that
<jaytaoko> bryceh: ok. I will
<bryceh> jaytaoko, Alberto and Sarvatt also have access to that driver so you could alternatively ask one of them for access.  But may be better to work through Henry even so.
<bryceh> on to bug reports...  things have been going really well so far
<jaytaoko> bryceh: since AMD support the open source driver will it be ok if  we recommend the open source driver to users instead of the fglrx
<bryceh> jaytaoko, that is fine by me, however be aware for the latest hardware the open source -ati driver may not give full 3D support, so users on that hardware would need -fglrx for that
<jaytaoko> bryceh: ouch!
<bryceh> jaytaoko, however I should think 2D unity should work ok on the open driver in such cases, which might be more practical to recommend
<bryceh> jaytaoko, http://wiki.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature gives a table showing which hardware has what level of 3D support currently
<bryceh> we will be doing an update to a current git snapshot of the radeon driver, so what we have in natty should match what's shown in that table pretty closely
<bryceh> regarding bugs, here's the natty bugs on our todo list currently:  http://blumonc/Arsenal/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/workqueue-natty.html
<jaytaoko> bryceh: alright
<bryceh> or I should say, those are all the actionable X bugs
<bryceh> which is an amazingly short list
<jaytaoko> bryceh: link does not work
<bryceh> I charted the # X bugs in natty against the equivalent point in development for maverick:
<bryceh> sorry, should be http://www.bryceharrington.org/Arsenal/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/workqueue-natty.html
<bryceh> http://www.bryceharrington.org/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/totals-natty-workqueue.svg
<Sarvatt> bryceh: we're going to pull in an ati git checkout soon aren't we? we will have 3D support for everything but the latest 69xx GPU's then
<bryceh> the dark line in that chart is # bug reports in maverick, so you can see things are really stable
<bryceh> Sarvatt, yes that's correct
<bryceh> it will be interesting to see how that chart changes once all the new X stack is in place :-P
<bryceh> but hopefully it won't be too bad
<bryceh> jaytaoko, are there further X / driver bugs on your end that need our attention?
<jaytaoko> bryceh: what about suspend/resume?
<jaytaoko> bryceh: I wonder what we could do on the software side to have this smooth on Nvidia GPU
<bryceh> jaytaoko, most often resume issues have been kernel-side troubles.  Currently I'm not aware of any X-side suspend/resume issues that we're tracking, but I can take a look if you have bug #'s
<bryceh> there are several blank-screen and gpu lockup bugs (also probably kernel bugs) which we're tracking in X (see above report), some of which may relate to suspend/resume in some fashion.
<jaytaoko> bryceh: let me check...
<bryceh> jaytaoko, one thing that's been a constraint on the kernel side for dealing especially with the nvidia-specific hangs, is that they don't have the hardware to test with
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, xchat-gnome to indicator-appmenu , do you know if thats coming or in plans?
<bryceh> jaytaoko, which I think could be remedied pretty easily via shipping a few of them some nvidia gfx cards...
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, working fine here...
 * bcurtiswx_ kicks his laptop
<bryceh> although I'm not certain suspend issues are so easily reproduced on desktops, but at least it wouldn't cost as much as a laptop to provision
<jaytaoko> bryceh: I have to find that bug: it is aboout some garbage on the desktop after a resume on Nvidia
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, resetting unity may help?
<bryceh> jaytaoko, ok.  shoot it to me via email or irc when you find it and I can take a look
<jaytaoko> bryceh: the only system that has caused me troubles with suspend /resume is nvidia
<bryceh> jaytaoko, other issues?
<bryceh> jaytaoko, yeah fwiw nvidia hw has always been problematic with resume
<jaytaoko> bryceh: resolution change and multi monitor
<jaytaoko> bryceh: how do we approach that?
<jaytaoko> bryceh: Are we rendering into one big surface and X take care of the rest for multi monitors?
<jaytaoko> bryceh: or is ther something we hace to do in code?
<bryceh> jaytaoko, as I understand it, a lot of logic and heuristics were built into gnome (metacity?) to handle this, while compiz has a different codebase for handling it
<bryceh> so a thought there is to look more closely at the way it was done in gnome, or even port/reuse the logic.
<jaytaoko> bryceh: is there some X documentation about how to handle it?
<bryceh> jaytaoko, there is `man 3 Xrandr` but that's pretty low level
<karlt> unclutter was the app creating funny windows and sending bogus events; anyone know whether this is often installed on ubuntu?
<bryceh> jaytaoko, maybe my best suggestion is to look through the gnome-rr.c code in libgnome-desktop
<jaytaoko> bryceh: I have to talk to sam about the support in compiz
<bryceh> it provides a wrapper around the lower level Xrandr library calls
<jaytaoko> bryceh: writting this down...
<broder> bryceh, jaytaoko: there are also GdkScreen methods for querying that sort of information
<bryceh> jaytaoko, also RAOF has looked at this stuff more recently than I so would be a better reference for it
<broder> and the GdkScreen methods work for nvidia-current et al. which use Xinerama and not Xrandr
<jaytaoko> broder: is Xinerama another api similar to XRand?
<bryceh> broder, good point
<bryceh> jaytaoko, yes
<broder> jaytaoko: it's basically the precursor to Xrandr, but NVIDIA has never been good at keeping up with the times
<bryceh> there is also TwinView, which is nvidia-specific
<broder> right, and i don't think any of the gdk/gtk/gnome code knows about those extensions
<bryceh> xserver 1.10 will have some randr updates that apparently make it possible for nvidia to finally join the crowd at supporting xrandr
<bryceh> however that'll depend on them prioritizing the feature development work in their driver and getting it to us on time
<bryceh> (I don't know if there is a roadmap for this feature, so am not counting chickens yet)
<jaytaoko> bryceh: so are we looking at several implementation depending on the vendor of the gpu?
<bryceh> jaytaoko, yes.  I would suggest prioritizing Xrandr 1.3 at the top.
<jaytaoko> byceh: ok
<broder> as far as i know the GdkScreen monitors will work against all drivers
<jaytaoko> bryceh: so what is gnome doing when running on an nvidia system?
<broder> but you can only query information through those, not modify it
<bryceh> and like broder says, you might be able to use the Gdk api and get it all for free
<bryceh> jaytaoko, like broder points out, they have an abstracted api in gdk that covers it
<broder> bryceh, jaytaoko: i've definitely verified that gdk_screen_get_n_monitors and gdk_screen_get_monitor_geometry work against fglrx, nvidia-current, -intel, -ati, and -nouveau. i don't know about the rest of the api though
<broder> (i'm going to go test gdk_screen_get_primary_monitor against nvidia-current right now, because if that works it would make my life a lot easier)
<bryceh> broder, iirc some of the resolution switching stuff isn't quite as nicely abstracted.  But it's been a long time since I dug into it and things may have changed.
<broder> bryceh: changing resolution is handled through the GnomeRR* stuff, not the GdkScreen stuff
<jaytaoko> broder: thanks for the info
<broder> and yeah, the GnomeRR* stuff is exclusively Xrandr
<bryceh> jaytaoko, maybe once alpha-2 is out we should get ahold of or write some sort of multi-head test case thingee
<jaytaoko> bryceh: absolutely...
<bryceh> broder, yeah for Xinerama and TwinView you can't change resolutions dynamically; gotta edit xorg.conf.  So that's probably not something unity needs to worry about quite so much.
<bryceh> jaytaoko, ok other issues/topics?
<broder> bryceh: you can change dynamically with TwinView, it just requires using an X protocol extension that nvidia invented (that's what nvidia-settings uses)
<bryceh> broder, ah, yeah then that would need tested
<jaytaoko> bryceh: yes, I am preparing a desktop system and I would like to know how to easily change the GPU without upsetting the system to much
<jaytaoko> bryceh: i would like to switch from an nvidia to a ATI gpu and vise versa
<bryceh> jaytaoko, first uninstall any proprietary drivers and remove your xorg.conf if any
<bryceh> jaytaoko, then you can swap cards back and forth pretty much at will
<jaytaoko> bryceh: ok
<bryceh> once the card is in, and system booted, you can reinstall the proprietary driver
<jaytaoko> bryceh: I will write a script to do that,
<bryceh> jaytaoko, if you get into trouble, do an apt-get purge on the proprietary bits to be absolutely sure
<bryceh> but I think that's a lot less necessary these days
<jaytaoko> bryceh: alright. do I have to remove the proprietary drivers when X is down? I guess yes
<broder> jaytaoko, bryceh: you're better off letting jockey handle the install, uninstall. you can do jockey-text -e xorg:nvidia_current to enable, jockey-text -d xorg:nvidia_current to disable
<bryceh> jaytaoko, no you can uninstall them with X booted
<broder> same with xorg:fglrx
<bryceh> jaytaoko, just use the Hardware Drivers applet
<bryceh> yep, just what broder said
<bryceh> use jockey for it, and it should take care of everything, including doing the xorg.conf changes
<jaytaoko> bryceh broder: thanks. I will be doing that a lot
<broder> by the way, since we're talking multihead, i'd appreciate feedback on the proposal i sent to http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnomecc-list/2011-January/msg00007.html for automatically configuring hotplugged outputs, especially if you were at the multihead session at UDS
<bryceh> jaytaoko, fwiw this is where having several computers can save some time... ;-)
<broder> jaytaoko: by the way, it looks like gdk_screen_get_primary_monitor() seems to work with the nvidia driver, so i think that means it'll basically work everywhere
<jaytaoko> bryceh: indeed! Actually I do have a Pentium 4 AGP system and I use it to debug the ATI issues
<jaytaoko> bryceh: but it is old and slow to compile...
<broder> jaytaoko: oh, no. take that back. it just picks the "first" monitor rather arbitrarily. lame
<bryceh> broder, I'm +1 to improvements to g-s-d.  I'm advocating the idea of getting the expectations documented, since different people sometimes have differing ideas on how things should work, so the functionality sometimes tends to churn
<broder> bryceh: agreed, though the current g-s-d code kind of reads to me like it was an initial implementation just to get the functionality there that nobody ever went back and fleshed out
<bryceh> jaytaoko, what I've done is slap different cards into cheap hw, then use nfs mounts to my fast main box where I build the debs (using pbuilder)
<broder> i'll try to make sure that anything i write up is well documented. ideally with a test suite
<bryceh> broder, excellent!
<bryceh> broder, also touch base with RAOF as he had some ideas/plans in improving the configuration tool too, so maybe there's some potential for collaboration
<broder> bryceh: ok, will do
<bryceh> jaytaoko, alright anything else?
<jaytaoko> bryceh: no I think that is it for me...
<bryceh> ok great, was nice chatting with you
<jaytaoko> bryceh: What I gather from our conversation is that we have to follow on with ATI and fglrx
<jaytaoko> bryceh: and start prototyping with multi monitors
<bryceh> jaytaoko, yes
<jaytaoko> bryceh: alright! thanks to you and broder!
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-01-26
<chrisccoulson> maaaaaaaaaan, nearly 400 tests in the firefox test suite fail
<chrisccoulson> i really need to investigate those at some point :(
<RAOF> jaytaoko, bryceh, broder: Xrandr is the modesetting API, but Xinerama is where the desktop gets the screen-edge hints from; XrandR sets the Xinerama hints appropriately.  Although I guess that you could also query XRandR directly if you wanted too.
<RAOF> nvidia TwinView also (mostly) sets the Xinerama hints appropriately, so it should work with everything.
<bryceh> wb RAOF
<broder> RAOF: sure, but there's information exposed by XRandR that isn't from Xinerama. Xinerama has no concept of primary monitors, for instance
<RAOF> Right.  *That* you'll need to get from XRandR.
<RAOF> Hm, and I guess that we really *do* want to know about the primary monitor...
<RAOF> Rather than just guessing that the left-most monitor is where the launcher should go :)
<RAOF> bryceh: :)
<broder> that would certainly be awesome :), but unfortunately none of the libraries i've seen can get that out of nvidia, so i think you have to actually speak NV-CONTROL
<RAOF> Yes.  Some judicious copy-paste from nvidia-settings might solve the problem.
<RAOF> Actually, does nvidia actually have a *concept* of primary monitor?
<broder> well, there's a checkbox in nvidia-settings for it. but i have no clue how anybody else would find out about it
<broder> because changing it has no effect on the xinerama screen ordering, the xrandr information is obviously bogus, and nothing but nvidia-settings speaks NV-CONTROL
<RAOF> That *might* be the monitor that nvidia uses for sync-to-vblank?
<broder> could be. i'm going to have to grok the nv-control stuff for work in the near future, so i'll be sure to report back if i find out anything interesting :)
<RAOF> I don't know if nvidia does per-crtc vblank properly (although the hardware is certainly capable of it, so maybe it does).
<Amaranth> RAOF: afaik you're right, it's for vblank
<Amaranth> Unless their documentation is out of date it makes it pretty clear they don't support per-crtc vblank
<Amaranth> Also, compiz handles multimonitor pretty well (and multiscreen not at all anymore) but I suppose unity needs to know where to paint
<RAOF> Right.  Unity (and, from memory, nux) gets *quite* confused when the screen size changes.
<Amaranth> xinerama helps with that
<RAOF> I don't know why nvidia doesn't support per-crtc vblank; their hardware clearly does, since nouveau does the right thing.
<Amaranth> Although smspillaz apparently discovered compiz gets quite confused when the screen size changes as well, I think that's an 0.9 specific thing so hopefully he can find what changed from 0.8
<broder> Amaranth: gnome-panel has some heuristic it's using to move between outputs which is not always correct with nvidia, but frequently is if you kick it hard enough. i haven't figured out how it's doing that yet, since a quick skim of the code makes it look like it just knows XRandR
<Amaranth> Well, compiz messes up the stacking order badly on screen size changes, anyway
<Amaranth> broder: ha, gnome-panel didn't do the right thing for me even with -intel :)
<Amaranth> wait, I think I managed to kick gnome-panel in to shape but docky was doing it wrong
<broder> Amaranth: the behavior for me was the the panel wouldn't move until i changed the virtual desktop size (i.e. by switching from horizontal to vertical layout or vice versa), at which point it would move to the right display
<broder> but i could be incorrectly extrapolating from what is actually random behavior
<Amaranth> I don't remember if it was gnome-panel, docky, or both but at least one of them wouldn't go to the primary monitor set via xrandr, I had to drag it in to place
<pitti> Good mornin
<kenvandine> good morning pitti
<pitti> hey kenvandine! burning the midnight oil?
<kenvandine> yup... about to sign out though :)
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<pitti> didrocks: ca va?
<pitti> didrocks: question about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-dx-n-2d-experience-fallback: "add a label in case of the nvidia driver to tell that the interface will look different at reboot" -> that's in the jockey driver description?
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti, Ã§a va bien, merci, you?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, jockey (and there is one for ubiquity IIRC)
<pitti> didrocks: je suis bien, merci
<pitti> didrocks: right, there is
<Riddell> "et toi" didrocks not "you", go to the back of the class
<pitti> didrocks: ok, will do that
<seb128> hey didrocks pitti
 * pitti bows to Riddell
<didrocks> Riddell: damn! I'll go see my French teacher then :-)
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey Riddell
<didrocks> pitti: excellent, thanks!
<didrocks> hey seb128
<pitti> so this new NBS thingy finally works - time for breakfast, bbl
<seb128> pitti, enjoy
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks
<xclaesse> hello. If I do an upgrade from maverick to natty with the update-manager (when natty will be released), will that switch my desktop to unity? or is unity only for fresh installs by default?
<rodrigo_> xclaesse, the ubuntu desktop edition session in gdm will start unity, you'd need to select the classic edition to use the normal GNOME panel
<xclaesse> argh
<duanedesign> hey rodrigo_
<duanedesign> xclaesse: once you select Classic Desktop it will boot into that. You will not have to select it everytime. At least that is how it works now.
<rodrigo_> hi duanedesign
<fta> uh, i thought totem was able to play regular WMV3 mms:// links. I got the plugin wizard (in natty), and it failed to find a suitable codec
<fta> mplayer works fine though
<seb128> tkamppeter, Riddell: could you commit your poppler natty changes to the vcs?
<Riddell> ok
<seb128> Riddell, thanks
<Riddell> done
<seb128> Riddell, thanks
<tkamppeter> Riddell, did your commit also cover my changes?
<Riddell> tkamppeter: yes
<tkamppeter> Riddell, OK, thanks.
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<baptistemm> hi there
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<seb128> you?
<seb128> lut baptistemm
<chrisccoulson> yeah, good thanks
<didrocks> ok, bbiab, I can't resize anymore my terminator window
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<dm> hi there!
<seb128> re
<seb128> grrr, system tend to crash when opengl screensaver are used it seems
<geser> has somebody some time to review/sponsor https://code.launchpad.net/~geser/ubuntu/natty/json-glib/merge_0.12.0-2/+merge/47377 ? thanks
<GunnarHj> Hi Martin,
<GunnarHj> Even if your time is filled with other urgent stuff, it would be great if you could take a look at the GDM side of https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/693337, so I can proceed with the mods, if any.
<GunnarHj> IMHO it should be possible to commit before Alpha 2.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 693337 in language-selector "Menus for choosing language should have one option per available translation" [Undecided,In progress]
<GunnarHj> pitti: Please see previous entry...
<pitti> ok, will do
<seb128> geser, guess mvo can do it he's patch piloting today ;-)
<GunnarHj> pitti: Great!
<mvo> hey geser and seb128 - i'm flying today
<seb128> hey mvo ;-)
<mvo> mpt: hacked a bit on a tech preview http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/tmp/sc-meets-debtags.png
<mvo> seb128: the above kept me from piloting
<mpt> Oh, mvo
<seb128> mvo, seems it was worth it ;-)
<mvo> a prototype from 2h work (and lots of inspiration from enrico from last week). ui needs loads of love and stuff is missing, but it seems like it could be the next big thing
<seb128> mvo, you would need understandable tags
<seb128> ;-)
<mvo> heh :) indeed, the blacklist/whitelist needs some work, I filter out "implemented-in::c++" and this like alredy
<mvo> there are human readable names, but AFAICT its not supporting i18n yet, that needs fixing too
<seb128> mvo, well as an user it doesn't really seem obvious what those are
<seb128> but maybe it's just me ;-)
<mvo> seb128: indeed, its still a prototype
<mvo> seb128: and it needs careful checking which tags (and how many) are useful and which are not
<mvo> but patch piloting now :) - not that pie-in-the-sky-developer-work
<pitti> mvo: btw, do you want to review https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/software-properties/pygi/+merge/47463, or should I merge/upload this myself?
<mvo> pitti: I can do that today
<pitti> mvo: heh, call it sponsoring? :-)
<mvo> hehe, good plan
<mark-kraevskijj> hey, guys!
<mark-kraevskijj> need help
<mark-kraevskijj> i want to install 1004LTS dvd via usb-stick
<seb128> mark-kraevskijj, hi, try #ubuntu for user support
<mark-kraevskijj> shit, they cant answer...
<mark-kraevskijj> seb128, they dont understand, what i need to install ubuntu from usb
<seb128> well this channel is to discuss desktop packaging issues
<seb128> issues or work being done on those
<seb128> it's not the right one to discuss installation in any case
<mark-kraevskijj> okay. i heard about packet, which can delete packets from .iso
<seb128> wrong channel for those questions...
<seb128> try again later on #ubuntu?
<mark-kraevskijj> okay, thanks...
<seb128> mvo, can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/evolution-exchange/backports-20110124/+merge/47299 as well?
<mvo> seb128: sure, once I finished emacs23
<micahg> rodrigo_: pong, sorry I missed you yesterday
<mpt> <mpt> mvo, where are you getting the data? I thought the blocker for debtags was that Launchpad was not including them in packages in the first place.
<mvo> mpt: its data from the package itself, so stale
<mvo> mpt: but good enough for a first shoot
<mpt> mvo, what do you mean by "the package itself"? Are you extracting them all into app-install-data or something?
<mvo> mpt: I have some ideas how to integrate it into LP, should not be too hard, but it does not stop there, we should have a (web)ui for improving the tagging etc
<mvo> mpt: its part of the debtags package itself, it ships a copy
 * mpt resists the urge to say "surely that won't scale"
<mvo> mpt: what does not scale? shipping it inside the package?
<mpt> I guess it scales easier than having a package containing the icon for every application
<mpt> mvo, absolutely the Web UI, that makes sense as part of <https://dev.launchpad.net/UserContributedMetadata>
<mvo> mpt: indeed
<mvo> mpt: I guess if we are happy with stale(ish) tags we can go forward experimenting with them. LP support would be best IMO though
<mvo> (support for integrating them into the Packages file or as additional metadata)
<mpt> When you say "stale-ish", how stale?
<mvo> mpt: 2010-11-08 is the current data we got
<rodrigo_> micahg, hi, just wanted to ask you about libgjs, robert told me you were working on it
<rodrigo_> micahg, it's for the-board packages that robert has been working on
<seb128> we need it for g-s as well
<rodrigo_> seb128, gnome-shell you mean?
<micahg> rodrigo_: ah, I won't have time to work on it until next month, but I think the version from Natty was fine, it should still be in the bzr branch
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<mvo> mpt: but we can use a similar approach as with app-install-data (or even integrate them there) to keep them more current
<kenvandine> i think the script used to save space with icons in packages is doing something to alter the appearance
<rodrigo_> seb128, is that what's preventing ricotz's packages to land on the ppa?
<kenvandine> sladen, was that something you did?  have you seen problems like this?
<seb128> kenvandine, ?
<seb128> where do you get issues?
<kenvandine> so the gwibber icon from my update yesterday, which didn't change any source just packaging
<kenvandine> looks different today
<seb128> rodrigo_, not sure, I've been staying away from libmozjs and gjs
<kenvandine> in fact, i think it might look better :)
<kenvandine> but that specific svg doesn't exist anywhere in the gwibber source
<seb128> kenvandine, when was the previous rebuild before that?
<kenvandine> december
<micahg> rodrigo_: how soon do you need it in the PPA?  I might be able to squeeze gjs in this weekend
<seb128> kenvandine, ok so yeah maybe it's scour thing
<rodrigo_> micahg, well, asap, but whenever you have it's ok, if not, robert might have a look
<kenvandine> i do kind of like this version of it though, looks sharper
<kenvandine> that's it, scour
<kenvandine> i couldn't remember the name :)
<scott-work> didrocks:  sorry to bug you again, but i'm still having problems testing my gnome-session as default xsession fix
<seb128> but it should not be changing the images
<micahg> rodrigo_: is gnome-shell needed immediately as well or just gjs?
<kenvandine> it's more blue, and sharper
<seb128> kenvandine, well maybe pitti knows about that
<rodrigo_> micahg, gjs for the-board, but if you submit gnome-shell, that would be great, since we only have 2.31.5 + ricotz's packages, which are broken (for me at least)
<kenvandine> pitti, ^^
 * kenvandine will save a version of this and see what ryan thinks :)
<micahg> rodrigo_: I hope to have gnome-shell in by the end of Feb
<pitti> hi kenvandine, what's up?
<rodrigo_> micahg, oh, does it need a lot of work?
<kenvandine> i think scour is making the gwibber icon look better
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> but of course shouldn't be changing the look of the icon
<micahg> rodrigo_: no, just I lack time ATM :)
<pitti> kenvandine: ah, we had a similar breakage at the sprint for deja-dup icon, discussed that with mterry
<kenvandine> ah, any work around?
<rodrigo_> micahg, :-D
<seb128> how much CD space do we win with that scour thing?
<mterry> pitti, ah yeah.  I don't think that bug is fixed yet
<seb128> I'm still not comfortable with that change
<seb128> we keep running into side effect and we only test a small part of the archive
<seb128> it seems to have potential to creates issues over what it's worth
<pitti> kenvandine: could be bug 702423
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 702423 in scour "Scour corrupts deja-dup.svg" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/702423
<rodrigo_> brb
<pitti> kenvandine: could you try scour -i <original svg> -o /tmp/new.svg
<pitti> kenvandine: and check whether /tmp/new.svg is okay?
<kenvandine> ok
<pitti> kenvandine: dh_scour uses --disable-style-to-xml, which apparently triggers above bug with some gradients
<seb128> pitti, what would be the right medium to suggest reverting that scour hack? TB?
<kenvandine> pitti, yeah, that looks fine
<pitti> seb128: u-devel@ I guess
<kenvandine> impressive saving though, 40%
<pitti> seb128: well, you know the stakes, 7.5 MB CD space
<kenvandine> seb128, can i override that in my package?
<seb128> pitti, well as said just before I still think it's wrong to run it on the archive
<kenvandine> wow... 75.M
<kenvandine> 7.5
<pitti> kenvandine: yes
<seb128> pitti, if we maybe limited it to packages on the CD...
<pitti> gwibber is..
<seb128> pitti, it still feel like having the potential to break random softwares in universe which we will not test
<seb128> pitti, I'm rather concerned by the packages we will break and not notice
<pitti> but "packages on CD" changes quite often and is hard to do; we could limit it to "main"
<seb128> not by the default set and the few issues on the CD
<seb128> I don't like much risky stability to win some CD space
<pitti> kenvandine: do you use cdbs or dh7?
<seb128> we should rather opt-in in the rules for sources where it's a real win imho
<kenvandine> cdbs
<pitti> seb128: that would mean changes to dozens of packages, though
<seb128> pitti, well u-d list is fine but I feel we will not reach any consensus over that
<pitti> kenvandine: DEB_DH_SCOUR_ARGS = -Xgwibber.svg
<pitti> seb128: I'm fine for switching it to only strip main
<seb128> pitti, I guess that could be an acceptable middle way solution
<pitti> seb128: we could do that in the cdbs hook
<seb128> should I open a bug about that?
<pitti> since everything else needs to call it explicitly anyway
<kenvandine> i would be in favor of that, much easier to know where there are problems
<kenvandine> and we still get the win for CD size
<pitti> seb128: sure, I'll get to it ASAP then
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<kenvandine> pitti, that did it, thx
<seb128> pitti, bug #708081
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 708081 in cdbs "should not run scour on the sources in universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708081
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<seb128> thank *you* for workin on that ;-)
<sladen> kenvandine: pitti has been working on the integration of scour (an XML stripper) to the package build process
<sladen> kenvandine: if you find any .svg icons that are not being stripped correctly, you should be able to exclude, or the ideal and better solution is to fix scour itself
<sladen> kenvandine: ah, pitti replied.  Guess you're sorted
 * bcurtiswx waves to room
<mpt> mvo, as for the UI, the debtags syntax is basically incompatible with showing them raw. Their main purpose will be powering much better subcategories. We could also allow searching for them in the existing search field (since you're not likely to enter "::" for any other reason).
<mpt> mvo, what do you think?
<pitti> I'm off for about an hour, bbl
<mvo> mpt: (sorry, phonecall, so short) - its incompatible indeed, but I think we could use some tags (not raw, with proper description) for faceted navigation. we need to experiment with that a bit I guess
<rickspencer3> vuntz, interesting discussion about your blog on lwn
<vuntz> rickspencer3: ah, some clueless comments too
 * vuntz wonders if he'll start replying to comments one day
<seb128> hey vuntz, how are you?
<vuntz> seb128: very good, except for the fact that I somehow keep starting new tasks without finishing the old ones today :-)
<vuntz> seb128: how's life?
<desrt> pitti: holy crap dude
<desrt> pitti: i had no idea you were into the pygvariant stuff :)
<seb128> vuntz, life is great there ;-)
<desrt> pitti: some feedback, though: the GVariant constructor should take only one argument
<desrt> (other than the type string, i mean)
<desrt> otherwise it's somewhat logically inconsistent
<seb128> vuntz, if that's only today I guess that's ok ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you not enable the dconf to gconf bridge in g-s-d3 for a reason?
<seb128> rodrigo_, or is that just an error?
<vuntz> seb128: heh, I have hopes I'll be able to close windows at the end of the day
<seb128> vuntz, without opening new ones? ;-)
<rodrigo_> vuntz, I forgot to enable it
<seb128> rodrigo_, I guess that was for me, ok, thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, I'm rebasing on the current version and fixing some errors on the way
<seb128> like shipping the gconf migration script
<seb128> or enabling the gconf bridge
<rodrigo_> seb128, ugh, yes, for you, got confused by so many Frenchmen :-D
<didrocks> rodrigo_: take care of your next sentenceâ¦ can be dangerous for you at next UDS :-)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, I've retried your gnome-screensaver upload builds btw which worked
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, it was failing because of some broken packages, right?
<seb128> right
<seb128> the eog one is a real bug though
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, uploaded a new g-s-d revision to the ppa, it should enable the sound and gconf option and install the gconf migration script
<rodrigo_> ok, thanks!
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, you re-added "fdescfs" to the list of fs to monitor. We removed that upstream because of some bsd problems with that
<seb128> rodrigo_, it's coming from debian
<rodrigo_> hmm, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, it doesn't matter on ubuntu I guess
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> but it might be worth mentioning it on #debian-gnome
<pitti> desrt: you actually can pass a tuple (which is what you want to do in most cases)
<pitti> desrt: that's what I planned to do, but as the previous API allowed you to pass a "flat" *args, I kept that
<desrt> pitti: please drop it before it gets any wide use
<desrt> it's very broken...
<pitti> if tomeu is fine with it, so am I
<pitti> desrt: let's discuss in #introspection?
<pitti> desrt: I'd like to ask tomeu, as I didn't introduce this API
<desrt> i'm just going out the door actually
<desrt> i talked to tomeu about this before
<pitti> ok, will ask him
<desrt> and i think he agreed
<desrt> then i took over writing the stuff, and unceremoniously dropped it on the floor :(
<desrt> so i feel a bit of guilt about that, but still... we should try to get it right
 * desrt out
<bcurtiswx> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.32.2-0ubuntu7/+merge/47557 backported some git patches, pbuilder built success, tested on my lappy successful too
<pitti> desrt: talked to Tomeu, he's fine with that; I'll work on that
<seb128> bcurtiswx, great, you can maybe open sponsoring requests for those
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, you sorted the patch issue ;-)
<bcurtiswx> seb128, bzr lp-propose ?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, you can do that for example
<seb128> bcurtiswx, you should document the rules change in the changelog
<bcurtiswx> seb128, ah yes, done :)
<bcurtiswx> seb128, bcurtis@weather:~/Packages/empathy/natty/ubuntu$ bzr lp-propose  bzr: ERROR: lp:~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.32.2-0ubuntu7 has no product
<seb128> didrocks, james_w: ^ do you have any clue about that?
<didrocks> I think lp-propose is expecting lp:~name/product/branch format, but that's just a raw guess
<seb128> bcurtiswx, you should run that in your directory
<seb128> bcurtiswx, did you run it from empathy-2.32.2-0ubuntu7?
<bcurtiswx> its ~/Packages/empathy/natty/ubuntu
<bcurtiswx> which is where i've been pushing from
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: seems you pushed to lp:~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.32.2-0ubuntu7
<didrocks> (on launchpad, I mean)
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, yes.. should I bzr lp-propose lp:~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.32.2-0ubuntu7  ?
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: no, rather try bzr push --remember lp:~bcurtiswx/empathy/empathy-2.32.2-0ubuntu7
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: then bzr lp-propose
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/558629/
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: hum, what's your source, is it our default ~ubuntu-desktop/empathy/ubuntu branch?
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, yes
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: try bzr upgrade .
<didrocks> then push again
<bcurtiswx> bzr: ERROR: The branch format Meta directory format 1 is already at the most recent format
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, ^^
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: ok, I have no clue then, sorry :/
<bcurtiswx> hmm
<seb128> hum
<seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.32.2-0ubuntu7/+merge/47557
<seb128> you already submitted it it seems
<bcurtiswx> seb128, thats the original link i gave you :-\
<seb128> you should just add ubuntu-sponsors to the reviewers
<seb128> bcurtiswx, right sorry I had a glance and closed it then we discussed sponsoring
<bcurtiswx> seb128, ok :)
<bcurtiswx> seb128, as a reviewer or on the branch itself?
<bcurtiswx> seb128, nvm got it
<bcurtiswx> gonna go start a slow cooker beef stew, yum yum.  bbs
<pitti> desrt: there: http://git.gnome.org/browse/pygobject/commit/?id=27e3a6276ff5f2cdc03ddf69ee80d44c3bf2c094
<chrisccoulson> has anyone else upgraded to ffox4 b10 yet?
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, i did
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, does it still ask you if you want to save your tabs on close?
<chrisccoulson> (and is yours a mozilla or ubuntu build?)
<micahg> chrisccoulson: charlie-tca was having an issue using report a bug from it
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, current natty version, seems it doesnt ask
<chrisccoulson> micahg, oh, that's not important ;)
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, hmmmm, so it's not just me :)
<chrisccoulson> that's pretty bad, it just forgets all my tabs here
<pitti> seb128: cdbs fixified
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> and with that, good night everyone!
<chrisccoulson> 'night pitti!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<chrisccoulson> micahg, report a bug would have stopped working until the latest ubufox gets published (if it's not already)
<seb128> bug #708171
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 708171 in nautilus "Multi-column list view (aka Miller Columns)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708171
<seb128> bah user titles...
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - heh, i noticed that too ;)
<seb128> oh it got renamed
<seb128> it was "after 30 years still NO miller-columns in nautilus!"
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> i've told that guy a billion times already he should stop exaggerating ;)
<chrisccoulson> j/k
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> interesting, there was an early release of nautilus in 1981â¦ :-)
<didrocks> can learn a new thing everyday :)
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, what do you have browser.startup.page and browser.tabs.warnOnClose set to in about:config?
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, browser.tabs.warnOnClose=true browser.startup.page=0
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, ok, same as me :)
<chrisccoulson> i just confirmed on b9 those pref's show the warning on close
<chrisccoulson> but now it just discards all your tabs :(
<ari-tczew> hey, I'm merging gnome-power-manager with Debian unstable and I dunno whether include changes related to Debian bug 591776
<ubot2> Debian bug 591776 in gnome-power-manager "xfce4-session: Please don't start both {xfce4,gnome}-power-manager" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/591776
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, that change is probably fine
<chrisccoulson> please don't take the debian hack of moving g-p-m to start in the initialization autostart phase though
<chrisccoulson> i've already reverted that because it got inherited from the last merge
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, did debian install it in /etc/xdg/autostart before?
<chrisccoulson> i thought they'd already moved desktop files out of /etc, but i might be wrong there (or perhaps they put them back again)
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: look on full diff: http://paste.ubuntu.com/558670/
<ari-tczew> I disabled these ++ in d/rules
<ari-tczew> correct?
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, ok, that change is fine
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: to be clear: disable their additions in d/rules and keep debian/postinst ?
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, no, you need the debian/rules bits, else it won't install an autostart file at all ;)
<chrisccoulson> does xfce4-session honour "OnlyShowIn"?
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: I guess it needs to be disabled since your changes from last days *ubuntu3
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: yes, it should at least :)
<chrisccoulson> that would be a better fix, to drop "XFCE" from OnlyShowIn in the g-p-m desktop file, rather than moving it ;)
<ari-tczew> didrocks: are you able to sponsor my merge?
<chrisccoulson> i can sponsor g-p-m if didrocks is busy
<didrocks> ari-tczew: not reallly, I'm debugging some stuff right now
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: that will be nice! thanks :)
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: ok, gimme 5 minutes
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: so, you don't have any issue with xdg-open?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: like xdg-open <whatever> tries to open nautilus?
<didrocks> (or your default file manager)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, not that i've noticed, but then i don't think i use it (unless an app i'm using is using it for me)
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: I'm going to give ScottK one change to test whether it's still useful
<ari-tczew> building on arm
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, what change is this? is this an arm fix for g-p-m?
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: yes CFLAGS in d/rules
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: if you can give it a quick try, like xdg-open foo.pdf, that would be nice :)
<dobey> didrocks: xdg-open foo.png opened eog for me with the file
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, it works ok here ;)
<didrocks>  chrisccoulson dobey: hum, ok, why is it broken for me as well in the guest session? :/
<didrocks> thanks for testing anyway :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - is it only xdg-open that handles it incorrectly?
<seb128> didrocks, works there in a guest session
<seb128> didrocks, trying in example.desktop which opens in gedit
<dobey> didrocks: what does gvfs-info <file> say it is?
<didrocks> ok, so a system issue :/
<didrocks> dobey: yeah, gvfs-info works
<didrocks> how can it be broken on the guest session for me as well? :/ hate that!
<dobey> didrocks: it says the correct mime type for the file?
<didrocks> dobey: yeah
<didrocks> it's really xdg-open/gnome-open
<dobey> didrocks: what kind of file is it that's not working?
<seb128> didrocks, gvfs-open?
<didrocks> dobey: all, pdf, imagesâ¦ they try to open the filemanager
<didrocks> seb128: let me try
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, what does application/pdf say in your mimeinfo.cache, or whatever it's called
<didrocks> seb128: same, just telling me "it's not a folder"
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: looking
<chrisccoulson> yeah, /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache
<seb128> didrocks, do you have anything in /usr/local/...?
<chrisccoulson> (assuming gvfs-info gave the mimetype as application/pdf)
<didrocks> /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache says evince.desktop
<didrocks> but /usr/share/gnome/applications/mimeinfo.cache is empty
<didrocks> seb128: nothing in /usr/local
<didrocks> /usr/share/gnome/applications/mimeinfo.cache -> juste contain a [MIME Cache]
<didrocks> renaming it doesn't fix anything
<didrocks> ok, I think I'll have to printfâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, ls /usr/share/gnome/applications
<seb128> $ ls /usr/share/gnome/applications
<seb128> defaults.list
<seb128> there
<seb128> didrocks, try removing this one?
<seb128> the /usr/share/gnome/applications/mimeinfo.cache
<didrocks> seb128: just look at what I just wrote ^^
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> I was hopeful :)
<didrocks> /etc/mime.types seem correct as well and I didn't play with that recently
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm :/
<seb128> didrocks, try to strace -e open gnome-open example
<didrocks> seb128: nice idea, trying
<seb128> didrocks, try to strace -e open gnome-open example 2>&1 | grep -v ENO
<seb128> then pastebin it
<seb128> so I can compare with mine just to see
<didrocks> example.desktop?
<seb128> well "example" being any file
<didrocks> ok :)
<seb128> the format should not matter there
<didrocks> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/558677/
<didrocks> opening the cache files one after another
<seb128> didrocks, what is in /home/didrocks/.local/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache?
<seb128> oh
<didrocks> nothing exceptional
<seb128> didrocks, can you copy /usr/share/applications/exo-file-manager.desktop on pastebin as well?
<didrocks> sure
<seb128> would not be surprising if that one was buggy
<seb128> guess nobody else there has it installed but you
<didrocks> MimeType=x-scheme-handler/file;x-scheme-handler/trash;
<seb128> there you go
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> "x-scheme-handler/file;"
<seb128> try deleting that
<didrocks> yeah, match on any file
<seb128> then sudo update-desktop-database /usr/share/applications
<didrocks> humâ¦ still failing
<seb128> didrocks, grep x-scheme-handler /usr/share/applications/*.cache
<seb128> didrocks, try cleaning .local/share/applications as well
<didrocks> seb128: nothing fancy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/558679/
<didrocks> yeah, trying that
<didrocks> (some people on debian sid confirm having the same issue btw)
<seb128> what is that exo thing?
<seb128> xfce?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, from exo-utils
<didrocks> I think I downloaded that when doing some sponsoring
<seb128> k
<chrisccoulson> heh, x-scheme-handler/file definitely seems wrong ;)
<didrocks> seb128: removing what was still on .local/share/applications fixed it!
<chrisccoulson> nice catch :)
<didrocks> seb128: nice catch, thanks :)
<seb128> you're welcome
<chrisccoulson> all your file are belong to us
<seb128> didrocks, next time stay away from xfce
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: I know, I won't sponsor anything not *gnome* now :)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> speaking about sponsoring what happened to mvo today?
<didrocks> seb128: more seriously, thanks a lot, it was driving me crazy
<didrocks> like opening every files from chromium was like hell (same from evolution)
<seb128> yw, glad that we figured what it was
<seb128> didrocks, but make sure you open a bug or fix it directly
<seb128> it's likely others will run into it
<didrocks> seb128: I'm pinging xfce debian/ubuntu people right now :)
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> my gut feeling is that thunar can handle "thunar foo.pdf" to open the pdf by the right software
<didrocks> whereas nautilus and others can't
<mvo> seb128: I was only half a pilot today, I need to make up 2h tomorrow
<chrisccoulson> huh, what on earth am i meant to do with bug 708252?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 708252 in firefox "www.dikhaldoon works fine under firefox 3.6.8 " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708252
<seb128> mvo, no worry but will you handle the 2 uploads you got pinged about?
<chrisccoulson> "firefox 3.6.8 works fine its ok now"
<seb128> mvo, json-glib and evolution-exchange
<chrisccoulson> well, why report a bug then? :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: excellent!
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: just to confirm :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, his bug report looks like a follow up to 708233
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: tomorrow, it will be with www.google.com, and then, .fr, .ieâ¦
<chrisccoulson> so, he reported a new bug just to tell me it works ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: you see, users are so nice!
<mvo> seb128: json-glib is on the sponsirng queue, where is evo?
<didrocks> :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<Guest15481> The networking icon dissappeared from from my GNOME Panel and Firefox says "Server not found." Can someone please help me?
<seb128> mvo, on the start of http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html
<seb128> Guest15481, try #ubuntu
 * didrocks waves goodnight
<seb128> 'night didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: thanks, you too (and thanks again for the debugging :))
<mvo> thanks seb128
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: if you are OK with that, I can prepare a merge of gedit and gnome-python-extras
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, yeah, sure. i can do those too
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: then you're beginning on my sponsorship list :>
<seb128> we don't really need a gedit merge
<seb128> we are over the merge period and debian only has one new revision with a recommends and a translation fix which can be done on launchpad
<ari-tczew> seb128: ok I can leave this one, what about python extras?
<seb128> seems worth doing
<seb128> since it didn't get done this cycle
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: what do you think, wait for ScottK response before archive uploading?
<mvo> seb128: both sponsored
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, for g-p-m?
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: yea
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, i don't mind. i'll start reviewing it in a bit, once i've got fennec uploaded
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<chrisccoulson> if needs be, i can test an arm build
<ari-tczew> micahg: if you don't mind, I'm merging gnome-python-extras
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: arm building takes more time than usuall archs, as ScottK started, let finish him :)
<seb128> TheMuso, there?
<TheMuso> seb128: Yes I am.
<seb128> hey TheMuso
<seb128> TheMuso, was there any decision on the at-spi version we will use this cycle?
<TheMuso> Not yet, some important fixes have made their way into git master recently, which I will test today, and get back to you with a final decision once I have done several hours of testing, with my usual activities.
<seb128> ok, I'm just wondering if it's worth continuing on other cleaning tasks or if at-spi will block us anyway
<chrisccoulson> brb, movind downstairs for the evening
<seb128> TheMuso, it seems python-atspi should depends on python-gconf rather than python-gnome2 as well, could you check if that's the case?
<TheMuso> Ah ok
<seb128> I'm not sure how to test it
<TheMuso> Sure will do
<seb128> like if you can rebuild with the changed depends, uninstall python-gnome2 and see if that breaks anything
<seb128> it's the only thing keeping python-gnome2 on the CD
<seb128> TheMuso, thanks
<seb128> it's likely that the depends from the debian since they ship gconf in gnome2 and not as split binary
<TheMuso> Ok will get right on it.
<seb128> thanks
<ari-tczew> seb128: are you gnome-python-extras maintainer in Debian?
<seb128> no
<seb128> there might be my name there
<chrisccoulson> i think you're listed as a maintainer ;)
<seb128> but GNOME is team maintained since before Ubuntu
<seb128> so the maintainer info is always outdated for those
<seb128> like I used to maintain it but didn't for years
<ari-tczew> there is a change
<ari-tczew> -         python-gtk2,
<ari-tczew> +         python-gtk2
<ari-tczew> I would like not to open bug on BTS for it
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: how is going review?
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, just doing it now
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, are you using your mobile device right now for XMPP ?
<kenvandine> it is logged in
<bcurtiswx> darn, im pulling in the patch that adds a phone icon and it doesn't want to work
<bcurtiswx> builds fine tho
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, and now?
<bcurtiswx> nop
<bcurtiswx> hrmm
<kenvandine> and now?
<kenvandine> i just signed off the other empathy instances so i am only connected from my phone
<kenvandine> i was logged in from 2 computers, 1 VM and my phone :)
<bcurtiswx> i'll tell for sure tonight, as you always have that darn thing on :P
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> :-D
<bcurtiswx> before the icon i always bugged you thinking you were available... but you were on yur phone
<kenvandine> i am always "plugged in"
<kenvandine> thats ok, if it isn't a good time i will ignore you or just tell you not now
<kenvandine> but it would be nice to have that in empathy
 * bcurtiswx gets ignored a lot :P
<bcurtiswx> how come it seems that 90% of the time i'm the last person to talk in here and seb quits
<kenvandine> hehe
<bcurtiswx> marks idea and the fix for the conn and disc in the notify bubble looks great I must say, much easier to follow
<kenvandine> it is late for him
<bcurtiswx> hmm i didn't change the package num with the phone icon addition, but dpkg let it install fine.. i wonder if that may be a cause
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, do you know if g-p-m built on arm?
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: no response from ScottK
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, i'll upload, i can't see any reason why it wouldn't build (the last version built ok) :)
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: I sent him version without change CFLAGS in d/rules to test whether this change still fixes FTBFS on arm
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: I just have supper, after I'll finish g-p-e
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> oops, perhaps i should test my updates in pbuilder ;)
<chrisccoulson> i take for granted the fact that i have pretty much everything i need installed on my machine
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, is cairo built without tee surface support for any particular reason?
<chrisccoulson> oh, seb is not here now
<Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/cairo/commit/?id=9f33f8453b4949cfdc63169d3acd7238f89379c2
<chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, firefox uses it ;)
<chrisccoulson> although, we ship the mozilla copy of cairo for firefox, but for xulrunner, we still use the system copy
<chrisccoulson> but i've had to disable that for now, as it doesn't build against cairo without tee surface support
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: g-p-m built fine without CFLAGS in d/rules and I'm going to drop it. ScottK gave me buildlog: http://pastebin.com/QRrF9W0E
<chrisccoulson> cool, thanks
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, from the build log - gsd-media-keys-window.c:210:48: warning: cast increases required alignment of target type
<chrisccoulson> so, the warning still occurs, but it builds ok because it's not built with -Werror anymore
<chrisccoulson> (which was why it failed originally)
<chrisccoulson> that's the warning that -Wno-case-align hides btw
<chrisccoulson> so, we should keep that in for now, because unstable versions tend to be built with -Werror, which means it would fail again in the future
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: I'm not happy :(
<chrisccoulson> how come?
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: not happy due to keep this change :P
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, if we remove it, it will fail to build again when we upgrade to a development version ;)
<chrisccoulson> they tend to use -Werror by default
<chrisccoulson> so, we need to keep it really, unless there's any way to fix the warnings ;)
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: ehh. okok
<chrisccoulson> thanks for testing that though
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: still around? new merge will be proposed in 5 minutes
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, yeah, i'm still here
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, hey, you seem like you might know
<rickspencer3> is there documentation on how to export a property over dbus in Python?
 * rickspencer3 refrains from baning head into keyboard
<broder> rickspencer3: i don't think there's a good way to do it. you'd probably have to implement the org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.{Get,Set,etc.} methods yourself
<broder> though i bet that pitti would tell you it's easier with the new GDBus bindings :)
<rickspencer3> broder, you should not have answer me, now I will never let you go
<rickspencer3> j/k
<james_w> I was pretty sure there was a decorator for it
<rickspencer3> broder, pitti recommended that use dbus.service.Object fo rnow
<rickspencer3> james_w, I just found this:
<rickspencer3> dbus.service.Object
<rickspencer3> oops, I mean this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4277814/how-to-handle-properties-of-a-dbus-interface-with-python
<rickspencer3> which is exactly what I am trying to do
<rickspencer3> but I'm not grocking the sample
<rickspencer3> I'll hack on it a bit
<james_w> that's broder's suggestion, implementing the Properties interface directly
<broder> james_w: if there's a decorator, it's not in the dbus.decorators module, which is where all the other ones are
<james_w> right, I was probably thinking of something else
<broder> hmm...although the dbus.gobject_service module looks like it could be interesting...
<rickspencer3> james_w, does that sample mean something to you?
<RAOF> rickspencer3: Yeah, that's a manual implementation of properties, which (like C#) are roughly syntactic sugar around Get/Set.
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: I'd like to merge gedit as well because I want to expand my sponsorshiplist, what do you think?
<rickspencer3> I can't really parse what I am supposed to do with it
<james_w> rickspencer3, vaguely
<rickspencer3> hi RAOF
<RAOF> rickspencer3: Good morning :)
<rickspencer3> grrr
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, only merge it if there are changes that are worth merging
<rickspencer3> how do we expect developers to adopt our platform if we can't document basic stuff like this
<rickspencer3> grrrr
<chrisccoulson> if there aren't then you would be better off directing your effort at something more worthwhile :)
<rickspencer3> RAOF, can I PM you for a bit more help on this?
<james_w> rickspencer3, if you copy that sample inside your dbus.Object then you can implement the methods to return the right values
<RAOF> rickspencer3: Yeah, certianly.
<james_w> so the implementation of Get() would return the current value of the property
<broder> rickspencer3: is the object that you're trying to export over dbus a gobject?
<RAOF> How do the python dbus bindings _not_ have a decorator for a dbus property?
<rickspencer3> james_w, and where do I define the name of the property?
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: 2 Debian bugs fixed :)
<broder> RAOF: properties are a *very* weak point in the bindings. there's no easy way to query for them either
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, which bugs are those?
<RAOF> broder: Works fine in C# :P
<rickspencer3> well, supposedly it will all go away when we use gdbus
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: debian bug 600055 and debian bug 603502
<ubot2> Debian bug 600055 in gedit "gedit: Help fails on Xfce 4.6.2" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/600055
<ubot2> Debian bug 603502 in gedit "gedit: Please update pt_BR.po (Brazilian Portuguese translation)." [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/603502
<broder> rickspencer3: if you're already subclassing gobject, try subclassing dbus.gobject_service.ExportedGObject instead
<broder> hmm..maybe not
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, i don't mind then. you could merge that if you like
<broder> RAOF: C# classes have a built-in concept of properties, right? python classes only kind of do. from what i remember of C# it's much weaker in python
<RAOF> broder: Yeah; C# has built in sugar for properties.
<broder> rickspencer3: in the body of your Get method, do something like `if interface == "com.example.MyInterface" and prop == "MyProp": return self.my_prop` or whatever
<rickspencer3> so the Get function handles every property for the object?
<broder> right
<rickspencer3> but, then how does dbus discover which properties are exposed?
<broder> hmm...they're included in the introspection data. that's kind of annoyingly hard to fake
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, look at dispatcher.py in gwibber
<kenvandine>   @dbus.service.method("com.Gwibber.Service", in_signature="s")
<kenvandine> for example
<kenvandine> as for discovering them, not sure
<broder> kenvandine: looks like gwibber is side-stepping the issue of python-dbus's properties sucking by not using them
<kenvandine> you can look at d-feet, which means there must be a way to do that programatically
<kenvandine> broder, yup
<kenvandine> it was the only thing that really seemed to work
<RAOF> d-feet parses the introspeciton data IIRC.
<kenvandine> RAOF, sound right... i just haven't done that yet
<broder> yeah, that's correct
<kenvandine> but d-feet is in python, so should give rickspencer3 a good example to work with :)
<RAOF> Which doesn't help if you want to *expose* properties, because you'll need to generate the appropriate introspection XML (yuck!)
<kenvandine> it must do more then, it discovers gwibber's interfaces and we don't do that
<broder> kenvandine: gwibber isn't using properties
<broder> at least not in the DBus sense of the term
<kenvandine> oh, yeah true
<kenvandine> it signatures
<RAOF> So you get the free introspection data the python bindings generate.
<broder> yeah, python-dbus should really be handling properties for you, and because it doesn't, it would be a pain to actually do real DBus properties in python
<kenvandine> dbus in python is a pita, would be great if someone improved that
 * kenvandine disappears for a bit, later folks
<broder> i would be highly tempted to go flip out and add real property support if i hadn't heard that GDBus bindings were the future
<broder> maybe i will anyway
<biiter> hello. what is the difference between ubuntu for dekstop and ubuntu for laptops? (except the gui environment)
<chrisccoulson> has anyone got any experience with swt-gtk, or java in general?
<chrisccoulson> i get this when trying to run zekr (i just want to make sure it works with gecko 2.0):
<chrisccoulson> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: no swt-pi-gtk-3555 or swt-pi-gtk in swt.library.path, java.library.path or the jar file
<chrisccoulson> but libswt-pi-gtk is installed
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: g-p-e is ready if you didn't yet check mail ;)
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, thanks. will try and do that tonight, but if not, then first thing tomorrow. it's getting late here now ;)
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: what's your timezone?
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, UTC
<chrisccoulson> so, it's 23:37 here now
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: huh, my is UTC+1 :p
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<rickspencer3> success!
<rickspencer3> well, the start of succes
<rickspencer3> RAOF, james_w, broder thanks a lot for your help
<rickspencer3> I know what to do now, the rest is just tedious implementation of boiler plate
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-01-27
<RAOF> TheMuso: Around for a little light -intel sponsoring?  I'd quite like intel users to be able to get to X after updating :/
<sabdfl> that sounds useful :-)
<RAOF> Yeah.  I'm a fan of not-black-screens after boot :)
<rickspencer3> ok, got to step away
<rickspencer3> will come back and kick mrpes2 some more after some food ;)
<TheMuso> RAOF: Sorry had my head burried in code. If not already sponsored, plesae point me to something I can review. :)
<TheMuso> gah typing
<RAOF> TheMuso: StevenK got to it before you.  You could endorse my core-dev application though :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisHalseRogers/CoreDevApplication
<TheMuso> Yes, I could, will look after lunch, thanks for the URL.
 * TheMuso -> lunch
<RAOF> Anyone want to sponsor an xserver-xorg-input-synaptics upload? :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: Sure.
<RAOF> http://cooperteam.net/Packages/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics_1.3.99+git20110116.0e27ce3a-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<TheMuso> Cheers.
<TheMuso> RAOF: You left out the other changelog entries from Debian since the last merge.
<RAOF> Bah.  So I did.
<RAOF> Thanks.
<TheMuso> np
<RAOF> Updated.
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<TheMuso> Thats better.
 * TheMuso test builds.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Uploading.
<RAOF> Rockin'
<RAOF> Thanks.
<TheMuso> np
<broder> grr. wasn't it possible to run compiz under vmware as of maverick? it keeps falling back to metacity for me right now
<broder> maybe my guest tools got borked somehow
<RAOF> Unity has requirements above and beyond those of Compiz.  If that's what you're trying, that's what you might be running into.
<broder> no, i'm just trying to run straight compiz in my maverick vm
<RAOF> I therefore have nothing to say :/
 * broder shrugs
<broder> i'll try the actual vmware tools instead of open-vm-tools and see if that helps
<broder> RAOF: how much compiz hacking have you done? i'm trying to figure out if the activateWindow function (i.e. CompWindow::activate() in the new world order) will move you between workspaces
<RAOF> I've done no compiz hacking at all.
<RAOF> I'm not the droid you are looking for :)
<broder> fair enough :). maybe i'll bug didrocks if i'm still awake when he shows up
<broder> (or maybe i'll get compiz running in my vm and can find out for myself)
<pitti> broder: server-side dbus doesn't work yet from python with gdbus, I'm afraid
<pitti> Good morning
<broder> pitti: ah, so python-dbus is still the way to go for that, then?
<Smaug> hello all.  I have installed ubuntu 10.4 on my computer via Wubi.  My wireless internet is not working.  It does not detect any networks.  My wireless card is an Intel 4965AGN.  Can anyone offer me some help?
<broder> !support | Smaug
<ubot2> Smaug: The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org and http://askubuntu.com
<Smaug> thanks
<pitti> broder: I'm afraid so, yes
<bentech4you> any one please explain this script wget /dev/null -o /dev/null http://$1/ &
<RAOF> pitti: Good morning
<pitti> hey RAOF
<pitti> bentech4you: the first /dev/null makes no sense
<bentech4you> k..-0 /dev/null means output redirect to null file na..?
<bentech4you> http://$1/ & ..i am confused with this
<pitti> bentech4you: that's -O, not 0 or o
<pitti> that's the output file, yes; the argument is the URL you want to download,and the & runs that in the backgroud
<pitti> as you are apparently not interested in the page content, tihs is by and large a "ping" to that web site
<bentech4you> but $1 means a variable something na.?
<pitti> yes, first command line argument
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, how about you?
<pitti> didrocks: happy release day!
<didrocks> pitti: hehe, I hope it will be a happy day :)
<didrocks> otherwise, I'm fine, thanks :)
<mvo> hey didrocks and pitti
<pitti> hey mvo
<mvo> gooood morning
<pitti> guuuuten Morrrrrrrrrrrrgen!
<didrocks> good morning mvo
 * pitti takes his Halsectomy gun and kills of the last remaining stragglers in main
<mvo> bammm :)
<didrocks> poor Hal :)
<pitti> bryceh, RAOF: in your next xorg-server upload, would you mind dropping the libhal-dev build dependency?
<pitti> bryceh, RAOF: the udev backend is working well enough, and we don't really support hal any more, so I'd really like to drop it to universe
<seb128> hey
<pitti> hey seb128
<didrocks> good morning seb128
<mvo> mpt: around? I'm just fixing some gwibber integratin in software-center and I would like to remove the link to apt.ubuntu.com for now until we provide a basic page on the webserver. currently it shows "you appear to be not running ubuntu" when clicking on the link
<mvo> mpt: the other one I would like is "reviewed %(appname)s in Ubuntu Software Center: %(rating)s %(summary)s %(link)s")" i.e. mention ubuntu in the twitter line (and/or software center)
<mvo> mpt: what do you think?
<didrocks> pitti: FYI, just a second prototype of places are landing today, the rest will land on Monday (discussed with the dx team, there is no way they have time to land all the places work today with enough quality). However, to ensure we have the right CD space, I'll still recommends unity-places-* so that this + zg get back on the CD
<mpt> mvo, those two are related. If it ends with a link to an ubuntu.com domain, and especially once that goes to a page talking about Ubuntu, it's not necessary to mention Ubuntu a second time.
<pitti> didrocks: ah, good
<mpt> mvo, in either case, though, "in Ubuntu Software Center" takes a lot of characters away from the review summary.
<didrocks> sorry for the delay, but better to get something working than crashing quite often like now :)
<mpt> mvo, how about just "in Ubuntu" for now?
<mvo> mpt: sounds good to me
<mvo> mpt: thanks! and in the next call we need to bring up the issue that apt.ubuntu.com is really not that great for non-ubuntu people yet
<pitti> Riddell: ok for me to drop the hal dependency of libqtserviceframework1?
<pitti> Riddell: the package doesn't build-depend on libhal-dev anyway, so it doesn't even have hal functionality
<pitti> Riddell: and it'll get rid of another package on the Kubuntu CDs then :)
<pitti> oh, it's not actually on the CDs
<pitti> but still, keeps hal in main
<Riddell> pitti: mm, well it certainly uses hal
<Riddell> actually it's more a question for the mobile people I think
<pitti> how?
<pitti> ./plugins/contacts/symbian/contactsmodel/tsrc/t_groups.cpp:#include <hal.h>
<pitti> ./plugins/contacts/symbian/contactsmodel/tsrc/t_utils.h:#include <hal.h>
<pitti> that's the only two instances I can find
<pitti> and it doesn't build-dep on hal
<pitti> ah, it directly talks to DBus
<Riddell> yes, it's Qt mobility's hardware library
<Riddell> I'm ok with losing that feature, it's not something KDE cares about, we could move hal to a recommend or suggest, but we should probably check with the mobile people as I say
<pitti> I'll file a bug on Debian and Ubuntu
<pitti> and we can drop it once it's the only remaining dependency?
<Riddell> k3b still uses hal too, although I don't think the package depends on it, I need to package the new upstream version to fix that
<kamstrup> didrocks: do you know the state of the zg 0.7 packaging?
 * Riddell slightly surprised to learn that qtmobility sources also list every public toilet in New South Wales
<didrocks> kamstrup: I discussed last week with RainCT and he told me that he'll get it in debian this week, then we will merge from it, why?
<pitti> Riddell: do you know why qtmobility is in main in the first place? only for qtwebkit? the MIR hasn't even been approved yet
<pitti> qmf apparently was also pre-promoted and is already in mian
<kamstrup> didrocks: oh, no biggie, I just wanted to make sure we got it in, because there is a range of nice optimizations in there
<didrocks> kamstrup: I think it won't be for alpha2 TBH, but I'll ensure we have it just after
<Riddell> pitti: yes, qtwebkit needs libqtmultimediakit1 from qtmobility
<huats> morning
<kamstrup> didrocks: ok, that's fine by me
<didrocks> hey huats!
<huats> hello didrocks !
<pitti> didrocks: do you know if the new release by any chance fix the "menus appear under all windows" proble?
<pitti> m
<didrocks> pitti: it's compiz, and yeah it is
<pitti> \o/
<didrocks> pitti: but we had new issues
<didrocks> pitti: you can already have it in the ubuntu-desktop ppa
<didrocks> pitti: I'm backporting new fixes to fix the other issues (bugs #707853  and #707852)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 707853 in compiz "Window geometry isn't restored" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/707853
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 707852 in compiz "all window appears to the top left corner" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/707852
<didrocks> but there is an ABI break, so I'm rebuiding everything :)
<pitti> micahg: do you keep thunderbird in VCS somewhere? I'd like to remove the unnecessary libhal-dev build dep
<rodrigo_> how do I remove a firefox extension by hand? it's preventing firefox from starting and makes it crash all the time
<Laney> start it in safe mode
<RAOF> pitti: I'm happy drop libhal in the next xserver upload.
<pitti> RAOF: \o/ cheers
<pitti> RAOF: just talked to some other guys about the remaining rdepends, and it looks like we can get rid of all of them in natty :)
<RAOF> Which should, agents of chaos willing, be tomorrow.
 * pitti tears apart a rubber chicken to put them into a graceful mood
<didrocks> RAOF: excellent :)
<didrocks> RAOF: btw, is the nvidia with the new Xorg stack available?
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, you can also just delete the extension from your profile folder (~/.mozilla/firefox/<random_name>/extensions/<extension_id>
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, hmm, that folder is empty
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, this is ff 4
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, in natty? how did you install the extension?
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, it's from ff 3, I guess it just got updated and crashes ff
<chrisccoulson> it should be in the extensions folder though :/
<rodrigo_> so, how do I start it in safe mode?
<rodrigo_> ah, -safe-mode
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, "firefox -safe-mode" should do it
<chrisccoulson> do you know what extension makes it crash btw?
<rodrigo_> ok, now the buggy extensios are disabled
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, yes, so far yoono and jsonview
<rodrigo_> checking the others
<chrisccoulson> you don't happen to have moonlight installed do you?
<rodrigo_> no
<chrisccoulson> ah, that's ok then
<rodrigo_> and yes, those 2 are the buggy ones, the others seem to work
<chrisccoulson> moonlight will definately crash it, it's pretty much the most frequent crash being reported to mozilla from ubuntu users now
<chrisccoulson> i suspect that will end up being blacklisted
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, do either of those extensions ship binary components?
<rodrigo_> hmm, let me see, I guess so
<chrisccoulson> i hope so ;)
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, where should I look? ~/.mozilla/firefox/<random_name>/extensions/ is empty
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i'm confused about why that is empty, do you have any other folders in ~/.mozilla/firefox
<chrisccoulson> in any case, it would be worth installing firefox-dbg and then running it in gdb just to see where it crashes
<chrisccoulson> you can run firefox in gdb with "firefox -g"
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson,  ls ~/.mozilla/firefox
<rodrigo_> console.log  Crash Reports  i8scanam.josmprofile  pluginreg.dat  profiles.ini
<rodrigo_> ok,m running it in gdb
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, http://pastebin.com/pwqj5d1d
<rodrigo_> this is with yoono extension enabled, doesn't crash if I disable it
<chrisccoulson> interesting, so, it's not crashing inside native code provided by the extension
<chrisccoulson> do you get a crash dialog? would be worth submitting that one to mozilla
<rodrigo_> yes, already submitted a few times :-)
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> i'll install that extension later and see if i get the same
<rodrigo_> ok thanks
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: around?
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, yeah, i am
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: PM ?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, sure
<ari-tczew> does anybody know when can I catch Robert Ancell ?
<chrisccoulson> he's 11 hours ahead of me, so it's 11pm for him now
<chrisccoulson> and i think he's at LCA this week too
<ari-tczew> I'd like to merge bluez and sponsor by him :)
<seb128> hey ari-tczew, could you stop that?
<seb128> don't request sponsoring by someone specific but just let sponsors of the day do their work
<seb128> btw didn't we say yesterday that gedit was not worth doing a merge and upload?
<ari-tczew> seb128: chrisccoulson agreed to upload
<ari-tczew> seb128: I can stop contributing if you like
<seb128> ...
<czajkowski> ari-tczew: I'm sure seb128 isn't saying don't contribute, just perhaps finding someone on IRC may not be the best solution, either pm or mail them
<chrisccoulson> i said i'd sponsor it because it has a bug fix from debian that is worth taking :)
<seb128> you are not easy are you?
<ari-tczew> seb128: that's life
<ari-tczew> you won't cooperate only with people which you like
<ari-tczew> you have to get to use
<seb128> nobody else has been trying to do what you are doing and select their sponsors
<seb128> but nobody got issues getting endorsements for membership due to it
<seb128> you are creating extra work and confusion for no reason
<ari-tczew> don't worry, only until FeatureFreeze
<seb128> well you are creating extra work for a while now
<seb128> so maybe it's time to stop doing that
<ari-tczew> seb128: ok I'm stoppping contribution
<seb128> ari-tczew, ok, you're call
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: please sponsor these 2 merges and I won't do anything anymore
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, i'll sponsor those in a bit
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: is it normal that firefox uses a lot of memory when you browse lots of images?
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, it depends on what sort of images, and how big they are ;)
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: I can easily pump firefox up to 1GB (and add ~300MB to Xorg process) by just reading comics ;)
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: not that big
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, have you got any examples?
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: hmm..
<kklimonda> now this is an embarassing moment, when I have to admit I'm reading manga ;)
<chrisccoulson> someone did report a bug a while ago where viewing a particularly large image caused firefox to allocate so many X resources that the system died
<chrisccoulson> lol
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: I think you can reproduce it by opening http://somemangas.com/manga/Holyland/1 and reading one page at a time..
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, thanks. it doesn't seem to go crazy here though :(
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: bah, it's going to be a nightmare to reproduce it then ;)
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, are you on nvidia?
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: indeed :)
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: closed driver
<kklimonda> (I can't use nouveau, it brings computer to knees when I open web pages with a lot of images like google image search)
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, the nvidia drivers are the only supported drivers where you can create a GL context in firefox right now
<chrisccoulson> not sure if that's at all related ;)
<chrisccoulson> i was trying to figure out a way you could stop it from doing that, but it doesn't seem like it without patching it
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/c07c9b91ec4d/gfx/thebes/GLContextProviderGLX.cpp#l228
<chrisccoulson> perhaps i should override it and see ;)
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: we could try, but I do seem to recall that happening earlier and this change is rather new?
<kklimonda> I can't be sure of that - I tend to forget unimportant (to me) things rather fast :)
<chrisccoulson> i think only the whitelist is new
<cyphermox> good morning!
<didrocks> hey cyphermox :)
<cyphermox> seb128, re the libgdata7 dep in e-d-s: I filed a merge request -> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/evolution-data-server/libgdata7-nbs/+merge/47598
<lool> pitti: Hey, we're currently using some really dumb distutils based setup.py in a Linaro component right now, and I was considering python-distutils-extra to replace that; I was asked whether we should use setuptools though; I guess you'd recommend distutils-extra, is it a superset of setuptools, or do you know what possible features we'd miss?  :-)
<pitti> lool: TBH I haven't used setuptools myself
<pitti> but it certainly doesn't do things like mo file building, icon installation, etc.
<lool> Ok; thanks
<lool> pitti: How to you roll apport and/or jockey release tarballs?
<lool> sdist?
<lool> doesn't that generate a MANIFEST and stuff
<pitti> right
<pitti> lool: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jockey-hackers/jockey/trunk/view/head:/do-release is what I use for jockey
<pitti> it does a few more things
<lool> pitti: thanks
<micahg> pitti: should be lp:thunderbird
<micahg> pitti: the problem is we use that branch for dailies as well, that's why I didn't drop it
<pitti> micahg: but the code doesn't use hal anywhere, so I uploaded a new natty version which just drops it
<micahg> pitti: still listed in the system requirements: http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/thunderbird/system-requirements/
<chrisccoulson> i think they need to update that ;)
<chrisccoulson> i can't think why HAL would have ever been required
<micahg> pitti: we need to upload a new version to natty anyways, we can drop it
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it's nowhere in the code
<pitti> micahg: ok, thanks
<micahg> chrisccoulson: unless you were waiting until after alpha2 for 3.1.8
<chrisccoulson> micahg - no, i was just waiting until the official announcement for the 3.1.8 builds
<chrisccoulson> which was this morning or late yesterday i think
<micahg> chrisccoulson: ah, ok
<chrisccoulson> oh, the bzr branch is out of date ;)
<chrisccoulson> pitti!
<chrisccoulson> :-)
<pitti> It didn't have Vcs-Bzr:, and I didn't get an IRC response, so I uploaded; but I'm happy to send you a debdiff
<chrisccoulson> heh, it's ok. i can fix it ;)
<pitti> ok, thanks
<cyphermox> could someone please take another look at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/ubuntu/natty/evolution-rss/688776.stan+debfixes/+merge/47090 ? :)
<micahg> cyphermox: I commented last week, but didn't receive an update e-mail sorry, can look tonight if no one gets to it sooner
<cyphermox> micahg, oh, ok
<cyphermox> I don't know why you don't receive update emails but I addressed your comments. thanks ;)
<kklimonda> hmm, firefox doesn't warn me when I close window with multiple tabs opened (I have the option selected in preferences)
<micahg> cyphermox: ah, I think because there was no follow up comment
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, that's intentional (see mozilla bug 592822)
<ubot2> Mozilla bug 592822 in General "Remove quit warning dialog" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=592822
<cyphermox> micahg, oh, i'll take note of that from now on :)
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: can I reenable the previous behaviour?
<micahg> cyphermox: maybe merge proposals should send code update notices as well, idk
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: I've somehow managed to close the window twice ;)
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, you can turn on the warning again by changing the value of browser.warnOnQuit in about:config
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, the session is saved by default still though, so you can restore it from the history menu
<chrisccoulson> what will most likely happen is that there will be a "restore previous session" button in about:home
<chrisccoulson> but that is no use for us, because we change the default homepage to our own ;)
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: can you add one?
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, not really. our homepage is online, whereas the firefox home page is all local content
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, that would be cool on our's
<kenvandine> bummer
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, i've been thinking of implementing a homepage using offline content ;)
<chrisccoulson> but obviously, that would only work in firefox ;)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, what's the status of the global menu in natty?  i am so loving it :)
<kenvandine> yay for consistency!
<chrisccoulson> it would also avoid the hacks we have now where we select a different homepage URL depending on your search engine
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: well, it may be worth considering if Firefox changes the behaviour and relies on its home page for providing nice user experience.
<chrisccoulson> because, if it's local content, you can detect the users search engine locally, and get the search URL from the local search plugin
<kklimonda> the "Restore previous session" in the history menu isn't as accessible.
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, yeah, that sucks. i'm considering reverting that pref in ubufox for now. the new behaviour is really broken for anybody not using the firefox start page
<mterry> bratsche, could you review https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/gtk/ubuntu-f10 for me?  I didn't want to push it without you looking at it
<pitti> seb128: would you mind if I updated gtk-doc to 1.16? it allegedly fixes out-of-tree builds
<pitti> which I need for udev; the current hack that I have there breaks the gir
<seb128> pitti, not at all
<seb128> go for it
<bratsche> mterry: Does this also catch things like Alt-F and stuff?
<seb128> hey mterry, can you make sure your pending changes are on ted's review list before he rolls tarballs today?
<mterry> bratsche, no, those are already caught
<bratsche> Oh you're right.
<bratsche> Nevermind.
<GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin,
<GunnarHj> pitti: https://launchpad.net/bugs/693337
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 693337 in language-selector "Menus for choosing language should have one option per available translation" [Undecided,In progress]
<mterry> bratsche, though...  when holding down alt, the menus should appear with the mnemonic showing.
<GunnarHj> pitti: please...
<GunnarHj> pitti: Start with gdm if you are pressed for time.
<mterry> seb128, sure.  tedg, hi!
<bratsche> mterry: On my system the global menu is invisible until my mouse enters the top panel.
<tedg> Good morning mterry
<bratsche> Is that a bug, or is that a feature?
<tedg> bratsche, Feature
<mterry> bratsche, I know, I'm describing how I'd like it to be (how it is without global menus)
<mterry> tedg, a missing feature, right?
<tedg> mterry, ?
<mterry> tedg, "when holding down alt, the menus should appear with the mnemonic showing."
<bratsche> mterry: Right, but I'm saying.. if you hit alt, where do you show mnemonics if there's no menubar in your panel until your mouse enters it?
<tedg> mterry, Oh, the holding down Alt?  That's missing, but hidden is a feature.
<mterry> bratsche, I'm saying holding down alt should show the menu
<tedg> bratsche, We've got a libindicator signal to tell the panel to show them.
<bratsche> Oh, oh.. I get it.
<bratsche> mterry: Anyway, I don't have time to test this patch right now, but the code looks good so I'll approve it.
<mterry> tedg, but anyway, I wanted to check if you could squeeze in my various branches before release?  Let me get a list of outstanding ones
<mterry> bratsche, OK  :)
<mterry> tedg, the two toggle-state-is-int branches (whose merges got deleted somehow?  did you do that?) and the misc-fixes branch (which is part of your parser refactor branch now it seems)
<seb128> tedg, hey
<tedg> mterry, Yeah, I deleted them because I put it in the dbusmenu-gtk parser directly.  And the pending merges it libappindicator and appmenu-gtk remove all that code.
<seb128> is that a known crasher?
<seb128> #0  theme_changed_cb (theme=0x9fb5840, user_data=0xa03e820)
<seb128>     at /build/buildd/libappindicator-0.2.91.1/./src/app-indicator.c:1279
<tedg> mterry, I thought I send a mail about that, no?
<tedg> mterry, Yeah, I just grabbed misc-fixes as well.  All that parser code is going in dbusmenu today.
<tedg> mterry, So, I got all those, and they're already planned to go in :)
<tedg> seb128, Hmm, no... is there more to the error?
<mterry> tedg, no, I don't remember an email about it.  OK, I will drop my re-merge requests
<seb128> tedg, http://paste.ubuntu.com/559019/
<seb128> tedg, it's the policykit-agent crashing sometimes when using update-manager
<mterry> tedg, well, I remember you talking about the new parser code, but not that it obsoleted toggle-state-is-int branches
<tedg> mterry, Hmm, odd, they're in my sent folder but they don't seem to be on the merges. :-/  Anyway, here's the link to where I merged it in: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ted/dbusmenu/now-with-parsing/revision/208
<tedg> seb128, Uhg, okay.
<mterry> tedg, awesome, thanks
<seb128> tedg, ok, let's not bother with that now then, deal with this week updates and I will file a bug on the updated stack if that's still an issue
<tedg> seb128, Cool, thanks!
<pitti> seb128: argh, doesn't fix it; but oh well, it at least still works, so I'll upload it anyway
<seb128> pitti, ok
<mvo> pitti: could you do a quick sanity check if http://paste.ubuntu.com/559028/ makes sense? invocing apt-xapian-index from s-c via dbus gave me introspect errors recently
<pitti> mvo: oh, that's a system daemon?
<pitti> mvo: checked, looks good
<mvo> pitti: thanks! it supports working as a system daemon, but only on demand etc :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: xulrunner-1.9.2 will eventually be dropped from natty/main?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yes. the only thing pulling it in is swt-gtk, and i have a patch for that
<chrisccoulson> but i can't test it, because all apps using it crash on start
<chrisccoulson> but did already
<chrisccoulson> so i'm not sure what to do :/
<chrisccoulson> pitti - do you want to sponsor the upload anyway? :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: crash because of the new version, or they crash with the current one as well?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, they don't work with the current one either
<chrisccoulson> pitti - bug 703618
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 703618 in tuxguitar "[natty] UnsatisfiedLinkError: no swt-pi-gtk-3555 or swt-pi-gtk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/703618
<chrisccoulson> all the apps i'm trying to test have the same problem :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I can upload it, sure
<chrisccoulson> and i don't know enough about java to figure it out. i've checked all the obvious things already
<chrisccoulson> thanks, i'll get that ready in a bit
<mvo> pitti: just looking over the software-properties merge. pack_start() has no default arguments anymore? is there a plan to readd them in python - IMO it is a bit sad to loose them
<pitti> mvo: that was discussed, and even committed to pygobject, but reverted afterwards
<pitti> mvo: the reason is that we should stay very close to the official GTK API
<mvo> fair enough also I can not say that I sympathize with that much. but *shrug* a case for something like qwidgets
<pitti> mvo: there's of course a conflict between making them as comfortable as the old pygtk, and not breaking the existing GTK documentation
<pitti> good night everyone!
<didrocks> good night pitti
<seb128> 'night pitti
<scott-work> didrocks: do you have time to help me more with setting gnome-classic as the default xsession?
<didrocks> scott-work: not really today, sorry :/
<scott-work> didrocks: completely understandable and i understand
<didrocks> scott-work: tomorrow?
<scott-work> didrocks: tomorrow would be outstanding for me :)
<scott-work> didrocks: approximately this same time?
<didrocks> scott-work: sounds good :)
<scott-work> didrocks: thanks again
<didrocks> yw :)
<bcurtiswx> unity is trying to be removed.. darn.. i want to try out the snap features!
 * bcurtiswx gets impatient for cool updates he can't get :P
<seb128> bcurtiswx, you use amd64?
<bcurtiswx> seb128, yes sir
<seb128> k
<seb128> because the i386 update is already downloadable
<seb128> it's likely amd64 is behind
 * bcurtiswx kicks all amd64 builders
<didrocks> yeah, I retried the build later for amd64
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: you will need to unity --reset btw
<bcurtiswx> OK
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: did you get the new compiz already?
<bcurtiswx> its waiting, but it tries to remove unity
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, ^^
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: yeah, because of the ABI breakage
<bcurtiswx> Application Background Interface?
<didrocks> the packaging is ensuring telling that for you instead of silently update and then, you can't remove :)
<didrocks> *Binary*
<bcurtiswx> i was close
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, thanks for working on that libgdata rdepends issue
<cyphermox> seb128, np. thanks for the reminder yesterday
<seb128> yw
<seb128> ok, time for another round of compiz testing
<seb128> brb
<cyphermox> I also fixed lunar-applet this morning
<bcurtiswx> brb, gonna move to a more comfortable place, sharing a small couch both having laptops isn't good
<bcurtiswx> i dont' need anything but main for natty right.. the rest come into play after final release
<bcurtiswx> where'd didrocks go?
<bcurtiswx> aww
<bcurtiswx> well anyone who deals with unity, i did the unity --reset http://paste.ubuntu.com/559095/
<seb128> bcurtiswx, what issue do you have?
<bcurtiswx> there's no issue with unity, other than the two filesystems show on the side panel but at question mark icons
<seb128> what is the log for then?
<bcurtiswx> i guess just to be a help
<bcurtiswx> sry?
<seb128> well I just started IRC and you give a pastbin with a log and no context
<seb128> so I was wondering if you need help with something
<seb128> or what the pastbin is for there?
<bcurtiswx> seb128, oh thanks! but i just gave that because there were some critical sections to the log, but my unity seems to be running OK
<seb128> k
<seb128> those are not new
<seb128> don't worry about the warning for now
<bcurtiswx> OK, I didn't know
<seb128> bcurtiswx, but feel free to open bugs about those if you want
 * mterry notices that gtk+3.0 also isn't in the desktop set
<seb128> weird I though kenvandine ran into that one before
<seb128> he might have got upload rights at that time though and didn't ask for it to be solved
<nessita> tedg: ping
<didrocks> time for dinner!
<tedg> nessita, pong
<didrocks> see you tomorrow :)
<nessita> tedg: hi! I was wondering if you could help me with the following issue: I have the /usr/share/indicators/me/ubuntuone.menu file with a single line in it: the path to a desktop file, and that file gets properly installed. Any idea why Ubuntu One is not appearing in the me-menu?
<tedg> nessita, Because I don't think that indicator-me reads those files...
<tedg> nessita, kenvandine or dbarth__ might know.
<dobey> tedg: it worked in maverick
<dobey> tedg: because that's how you told me to do it :)
<nessita> tedg: ok, I guess that changed on natty? like dobey said, it used to work on maverick
<nessita> kenvandine: ping
<kenvandine> looking
<nessita> kenvandine: thanks!
<kenvandine> nessita, it looks like it doesn't care about files in that directory at all
<kenvandine> it is hard coded
<kenvandine> if ubuntuone-preferences exists, it gets displayed
<kenvandine> good timing for dbarth to drop off :)
<nessita> kenvandine: how can we change that to be 'ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk'?
<kenvandine> nessita, so that should be changed to the control panel right?
<kenvandine> i can do that
<kenvandine> but we should make that dynamic
<nessita> kenvandine: I agree. Do you need a bug report?
<kenvandine> nessita, i'll fix that asap
<nessita> thanks!
<kenvandine> nessita, please do
<nessita> against... indicator-me?
<kenvandine> yes
<nessita> kenvandine: bug #708842
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 708842 in indicator-me "Should load services list from /usr/share/indicators/me directory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708842
<bcurtiswx> hmm, is it known that unity breaks with an alt+tab
<bcurtiswx> or is it compliz
<bcurtiswx> compiz**
<bcurtiswx> can anyone confirm?
<dobey> i think it's unity breaks compiz
<bcurtiswx> dobey, but the same happens to you?
<bcurtiswx> brb, restarting
<dobey> i am not using unity or compiz now
<dobey> but i recall hearing complaints about alt-tab with it before
<seb128> re
<seb128> nessita, kenvandine: having a way for any application to clutter the indicator menu doesn't seem a feature but a bug
<seb128> bcurtiswx, no crash there
<bcurtiswx> seb128, hmm IDK why it does that
<seb128> could be a video driver issue
<seb128> what card and driver do you use?
<bcurtiswx> yeah, ATI has given me troubles
<seb128> did you do xorg updates?
<bcurtiswx> it uses the open source right now
<bcurtiswx> seb128, yes
<nessita> seb128: having the list hardcoded looks like a bug to me, we can't even rename the executable name. I agree that we should review packages branches that add files to the directory where entries will be read from
<seb128> nessita, well it's not only packages, it means anyone can install craps in the directory
<seb128> nessita, didn't we discuss dropping the ubuntuone item from the indicator menu previous cycle?
<seb128> that seems the wrong place to add launchers
<nessita> seb128: I don't think so, or at least I was not in that discussion. Nevertheless, U1 is in the me menu but pointing to the wrong app (was pointing to u1-preferences)
<seb128> well I think we dropped the entry last cycle and you guys complained so we did put it back ;-)
<nessita> seb128: well, I guess we should be moving it to the messaging menu since we will be using it heavily to notify about shares, folders, etc
<seb128> nessita, yeah that's a bug and orthogonal from the discussion about having launchers there
<nessita> right
<kenvandine> seb128, i agree... but hardcoding is still kind of ugly
<seb128> not sure why "open the configuration dialog for something" should be listed in there
<dobey> seb128: last cycle i was told to put the .menu file in the directory to make it work.
<seb128> usually you want to set up your accounts once
<seb128> not to have those listed in your indicator on daily use
<dobey> seb128: it shouldn't in narwhal
<seb128> dobey, shouldn't what?
<dobey> be in the me menu
<seb128> ok, so what is the issue? ;-)
<seb128> should be bother fixing the code or just dropping it?
<dobey> both
<seb128> lol
<seb128> why spending time fixing code to drop it?
<dobey> it shouldn't hardcode external entries. not sure what all external things would need to be there
<nessita> seb128: we have an opened bug to have U1 discoverable on natty. On classic desktop we wanted to use the same thing as we have right now (the me menu). But since alecu is working on showing messages for U1, I think is enough to have the entry on the messaging menu only
<dobey> having it in the me menu always seemed wrong to me anyway
<seb128> nessita, ok, did you talk to ted or mpt about that?
<nessita> seb128: about what exaxctly?
<seb128> nessita, not sure but I think adding system messages to the messaging menu was discussed in the past and not welcome
<seb128> the messaging menus is made for user messages, not for collecting infos about services, etc
<dobey> seb128: it's not system messages. it's "5 people shared things to you" messages
<dobey> we discussed that in dallas
<nessita> seb128: well, U1 is not system messages, but user oriented messages. We did talk with neil about this
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I was just curious
<nessita> seb128: is ok, thanks for pointingt that out!
<seb128> some people suggested in the past to have things like "updates available" listed there
<seb128> which turned out was not really something we want
<dobey> nah, that makes no sense
<dobey> especially for u1 since we just automatically 'update' files anyway
<mterry> tremolux, love the ratings & reviews work  :)  It seems like I have to write a text review, can't just rate an app?
<tremolux> mterry: yep, you gotta write something (make it witty)
<bcurtiswx> is there a special package that you all use for the desktop team as far as editing projects?  Maybe one thats not command line only ?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, editing what?
<bcurtiswx> packages, like if i go edit lp:~ubuntu-desktop/empathy
<bcurtiswx> or is command line the most preferred and quickest?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, not sure to understand the question, I usually use gedit to edit files
<seb128> ie a graphical editor, not the command line
<bcurtiswx> yeah, maybe something that makes it more integrated with nautilus
<bcurtiswx> like a package is a folder in nautilus and built in push/pull/branching
<bcurtiswx> hmm IIRC jorge made something or maybe someone else.. that did something like that
<jcastro> Maybe you're thinking of doctormo?
<dobey> are you talking about the doctormo thing?
<dobey> heh
<jcastro> https://launchpad.net/groundcontrol
<bcurtiswx> jcastro, yes.. thats it
 * bcurtiswx apologises to doctormo
<bcurtiswx> thanks jcastro
<RenatoSilva> is there any way to create a ubuntu installation cd which is already up-to-date? it's for a dial-up-only pc
<rickspencer3> hey Renato, what specifically are you trying to do?
<rickspencer3> create one on the web, and download it updated?
<rickspencer3> or have local updates and changes, and make an ISO out of that?
<RenatoSilva> I want to install ubuntu on a dial-up-only PC
<RenatoSilva> I would like to burn an up-to-date installation CD
<RenatoSilva> so that I don't need to download hundreds of MB
<RenatoSilva> afaik the iso from the website is not up-to-date
<RenatoSilva> at all
<rickspencer3> RenatoSilva, there is a "minimal install" image that ight help you
<rickspencer3> but the website only has daily images for the development release
<rickspencer3> and you have to download the whole 700 Megs
<RenatoSilva> I can download in some place, but can't bring the pc to that place
<RenatoSilva> it's like windows service packs, once in a while MS deliver them together in the windows installation
<RenatoSilva> it would be nice if the ubuntu cds had the same pratice, but of course on a weekly or monthly basis
<rickspencer3> RenatoSilva, well, there are updates to the LTS
<rickspencer3> so in a few weeks, you can get 10.04.2
<rickspencer3> which will be up to date
<RenatoSilva> is there any special, particular reason to regular releases not having that too?
<rickspencer3> RenatoSilva, that's a deeper question
<RenatoSilva> About later updates after ubuntu is installed in the dial-up pc, is AptOnCD still the way to go?
<rickspencer3> I think that would better brought up on the @ubuntu-devel list if you want to change that kind of thing
<RenatoSilva> it's been quite some time after I used aptoncd, so I wonder if there isn't a better solution now
<RenatoSilva> it seems I'll need it again, I'll have to install a raw 10.10 then apply everything from there with aptoncd
<RenatoSilva> is there any way to download ubuntu updates in windows, for burning a cd-based apt repo?
<RenatoSilva> thanks anyway
<bigballz> Hello??
<rickspencer3> nice nick bigballz
<rickspencer3> ;)
<bigballz> Yeah
<rickspencer3> 'sup?
<bigballz> It was onlt for this.
<bigballz> I need help with the ubuntu desktop version
<rickspencer3> bigballz, well, this channel is not the support channel
<bigballz> SHIT\
<bigballz> Then what is it?
<rickspencer3> it's for folks who are developers building the destkop version
<rickspencer3> just #ubuntu
<rickspencer3> is for support
<bigballz> Oh fuck...
<bigballz> I'm an r-tard
<rickspencer3> you're welcome to hang out, though
<rickspencer3> no worries
<bigballz> I'm getting my feet wet in the world of linux and ubuntu
<rickspencer3> welcome!
<rickspencer3> please keep in mind that we have a code of conduct:
<rickspencer3> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
<bigballz> Oh yes. The language. My apologies.
<rickspencer3> np
<rickspencer3> just letting you know
<rickspencer3> you may want to revisit your nick as well
<bigballz> UGH. OK. How can I change it?
<rickspencer3> type: /nick my_new_nick
<bigballz> in here or where?
<bigballz> Freenode?
<rickspencer3> where "my_new_nick" is whatever you want to be
<rickspencer3> yeah, if you use a "/" then irc knows you are sending a command
<bigballz> Ah. See? I'm NOT a computer nerd.
<rickspencer3> so maybe change your nick and then hop into #ubuntu, I'll bet you get some good support there
<Spitfire77> Changed my name.
<Spitfire77> :3
<rickspencer3> :)
<Spitfire77> OK.
<Spitfire77> So, you guys develop Ubuntu here?
<rickspencer3> not me
<rickspencer3> I just sit around with my pointy hair asking when everything is going to be done
<Spitfire77> Oh.
<rickspencer3> but everyone else is an actual engineer
<Spitfire77> I see your logic.
<Spitfire77> Dang. That's pretty cool. :D
<rickspencer3> if you want to get involved with helping with the desktop, this is the channel for you
<rickspencer3> like you could start by triaging bugs, for example
<rickspencer3> or testing specific programs you care about and helping the developers get the information they need to fix the bugs
<chrisccoulson> oh, ratings and reviews aren't anonymous?
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-01-28
<rickspencer3> RAOF, bryceh hey guys
<RAOF> rickspencer3: Good $TIME_OF_DAY
<rickspencer3> hey dude
<rickspencer3> so, I think xorg is acting really screwy on my i965 desktop
<RAOF> Hm.
<RAOF> Since the xserver-xorg-video-intel 2.14.0 upload yesterday?
<bryceh> rickspencer3, this is with current natty?
<rickspencer3> hey bryceh, yeah, I updated last night after the new intel driver got in
<bryceh> rickspencer3, ok, tell us more
<rickspencer3> basically, it seems like it just stops painting
<rickspencer3> I can switch to a VT
<rickspencer3> if I run top, nothing is going crazy
<bryceh> rickspencer3, and fire off a bug report 'ubuntu-bug xorg' for tracking and so we get logs n'at
<rickspencer3> but then I can't really switchback
<rickspencer3> here's the thing though ...
<rickspencer3> I am also mucking with the menus in a program I am writing
<rickspencer3> maybe I should hold off on the bug report and see if I can make the problem occur on my netbook with the same code
<bryceh> rickspencer3, if you report a bug we can check it to see if there are error messages in the log files that provide some clues
<RAOF> It sounds like similar symptoms to the page-flip related hangs we had with Maverick.  If that were the case, compiz would be in D state waiting on an ioctl.
<bryceh> or if you'd really prefer not to, pastebin your Xorg.0.log and dmesg
<rickspencer3> bryceh, ok, I;ll do it right now
<rickspencer3> nah, I just didn't want to spam you guys
<rickspencer3> meantime, I think the mouse button on my netbook is wearing out
<rickspencer3> like 2 weeks after the warrany expired
<bryceh> after reading bdrung's blog post it makes me wonder how many of our X bugs are really dying graphics cards
<RAOF> Some, but I'd wager not many.
<RAOF> I think the rate of GPU failures is reasonably low, and I don't think our stack is so good that real bugs are less common than failing hardware :)
<broder> hmm...i have a mental model for the symptoms that indicate failing ram. i don't have a model for symptoms that indicate a failing graphics card
<bryceh> RAOF, I dunno, I got two failed gfx cards here (dead fans), and a third that sounds like it's on its last legs
<RAOF> bryceh: Maybe I just don't stress my GPUs; none that I've had contact with have died.
<RAOF> With, perhaps, the exception of my gaming laptop which would overheat, slow down by an order of magnitude, and then reboot. :)
<bryceh> and just yesterday I threw away a dvi cable with a bent pin (obvious on close investigation, but sounded like one of the many "weird random color" bugs we get)
<RAOF> Hm.
<RAOF> We'll certainly have *some* bugs which are due to failing hardware...
<bryceh> admittedly I swap cards quite a bit so they get more physical stress than normal perhaps
<RAOF> Maybe I'm severely underestimating their number due to not interacting with broken hardware.
<bryceh> rats, kernel panic in middle of a natty upgrade.  gotta love that
<RAOF> Oooh, ow.
<bryceh> came up ok
<bryceh> this is definitely turning into one of those cases where testing the new driver is taking *way* longer than just packaging it....
<RAOF> Ah, the new ati?
<bryceh> yeah
<RAOF> Before you upload, have you updated the copy-fb patch to support both 1.9 and 1.10 ABIs?
<RAOF> (And not have a stupid typo in the 1.10 codepath, like my -intel upload has? â¹)
<bryceh> ah I wanted to ask if we needed that for radeon too
<RAOF> Yeah.  You'll need to do basically the same as for -intel, but without the âsrcnâ typo :)
<RAOF> I split that out as a separate git commit, so it should be easy to see what to do.
<RAOF> (For future reference, although âsrcnâ looks quite a lot like âscrnâ the C compiler doesn't accept them as synonyms âº)
<RAOF> I can update the patch for you though, if you like.
<bryceh> nah I got it
<rickspencer3_> bryceh, RAOF here's my bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/708998
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 708998 in xorg "Desktop freezes intermitently" [Undecided,New]
<rickspencer3_> sorry I couldn't be any clearer
<rickspencer3_> I need to step away, but I can check back in a bit later
<bryceh> rickspencer3_, thanks
<bryceh> weird, apport collected a make.log.txt but no Xorg.0.log?
<RAOF> Yeah, that is strange.
<bryceh> the make.log.txt seems to be from some vbox build issue from last year
<bryceh> RAOF, hmm no obvious errors in the logs
<rickspencer3> hey bryceh, I uploaded those files
<rickspencer3> also, looks like the xorg apport hook crashed
<rickspencer3> (I assume that's why the files didn't get uploaded)
<RAOF> Heh.  I see you've been hit with the keyboard-config stick: âOption "xkb_model" "a4techKB21"â
<rickspencer3> RAOF, not sure what you're referring to there
<RAOF> I don't believe that will cause any problems, though.
<rickspencer3> I haven't seen any issues on this 'puter
<rickspencer3> my netbook thinks I care to swtich to arabic though
<RAOF> Your Xorg.0.log.old indicates that you've been hit with the keyboard-config upgrade bug, which set the keyboard model incorrectly and added the âafâ keymap, among other things.
<rickspencer3> glad it's all still working ok
<RAOF> There don't appear to be any other interesting messages there.
<RAOF> You _may_ have successfully confused compiz, or possibly hit a damage bug.
<rickspencer3> RAOF, is it at all possible that I'm bringing down compiz with this crazy sound menu integration thing?
<rickspencer3> like I am sending bad data, and the sound menu barfs,and then so brings down unity, brings down compiz?
<RAOF> That's possible, yes.
<rickspencer3> seems like that shouldn't happen :/
<rickspencer3> maybe I can make a repro case and log a bug against sound menu (if that's what is happening)
<rickspencer3> this is what fuzz testing if for ;)
<RAOF> Did that only happen while you were futzing with the sound menu, or is it independently reproducible?
<rickspencer3> RAOF, it's hard to say
<RAOF> But it doesn't happen *every* time you VT switch, right?
<rickspencer3> that's the problem with intermitent bugs
<rickspencer3> I don't know
<rickspencer3> I only switched VTs to try to see if there was a rogue process to kill or such
<rickspencer3> nah, it works fine, just tried it
<RAOF> Ah, yeah, that's right.  The problem manifested itself before the VT switch.
 * RAOF restarts to test new -evdev
<rickspencer3> RAOF, feel free to set my report to invalid or what not
<rickspencer3> gotsa run
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> mvo: good morning, how are you?
<pitti> mvo: you broke the CD builds.. :-(
<pitti>  software-center : Depends: python-piston-mini-client but it is not installable
<pitti> mvo: any chance to revert the dependency for now, and wait until the MIR is approved?
 * pitti hugs mvo
<mvo> pitti: unfortunately not easily, I could include it in the package itself, but that is not really great
<pitti> mvo: could it disable the functionality if it gets an ImportError?
<mvo> hm, that might be a option, let me check
<pitti> mvo: btw, thanks for the software-properties review; I'll debug the threading hang today
<didrocks> good morning pitti, mvo!
<pitti> that already hit me with usb-creator, it seems GTK doesn't seem to like it very much to run in more than one thread
<pitti> hey didrocks, how are you?
<mvo> good morning didrocks
<mvo> pitti: indeed, might be a bug in the code of s-c, usually I'm very careful about this (hit the gtk ui only from one thread). but that code was contributed
<pitti> mvo: for some reason that worked with pygtk, perhaps that did some extra locking or so; but I'll have a look
<pitti> if it's a bug in pygobject, I'd like to track it down
<didrocks> pitti: I'm fine thanks, having compiz crashing only for me at start (same issue than early december) isn't quite fun though :/
<pitti> didrocks: compiz is naughty today indeed, at least under unity; breaks copy&paste and focus-follows-mouse
<pitti> didrocks: it didn't crash here, though
<didrocks> pitti: how breaks copy and paste?
<pitti> didrocks: I think the FFM issue could actually be due to global menu bar (I disabled that in my classic session)
<pitti> didrocks: well, neither Ctrl+C/V nor left/middle mouse work
<didrocks> there was no change for FFM
<didrocks> hum, middle mouse work there
<pitti> that might not actually be a compiz issue, of course; could be unity, too
<didrocks> trying ctrl+C/V
<pitti> didrocks: try from firefox to terminals? (that's what I tried)
<didrocks> ctrl+C/V is fine there too
<didrocks> ok trying
<didrocks> (I tried in gedit)
<pitti> ctlr c/v still doesn't work even under classic+compiz
<pitti> between terminals
<pitti> but middle mouse does
<mvo> pitti: who is currently doing mirs ? just you and doko?
<didrocks> pitti: works for meâ¦ :/
<pitti> mvo: I left the team a while a go; currently didrocks, doko, mterry, kees
<mvo> so didrocks â¦ ;)
 * didrocks hides and handle his card of ETOOWORKANDBUGS :)
<didrocks> pitti: ok, finishing some triaging and debugging with same, then I'm back to you for copy and paste
<pitti> didrocks: no worries, let's track it down later; I'm currently wrestling with 10.04.2 and some urgent emails anyway
<didrocks> pitti: ok :)
<mvo> pitti: I assume downgrading the mini-client thing to a recommends is not enough for the cd builder?
<pitti> mvo: recommends works
<pitti> it'll be silently ignored then
<pitti> component-mismatches will still cry (which is desired)
<mvo> ok, that sounds reasonable then
<mvo> I will bribe the MIR team as quickly as possible, its a really easy MIR i think
<pitti> heh
<pitti> mvo: danke!
<mvo> danke an dich - und entschuldigung fÃ¼r den Ã¤rger .)
<pitti> happens, no problem at all
<pitti> would just like to have building CDs before a2 :)
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> hey didrocks rodrigo_
<didrocks> hey seb128
<pitti> chrisccoulson: good morning!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: was bug 294187 deliberately targetted to natty?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 294187 in firefox "Firefox Locales should install locale specific search plugins" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/294187
<seb128> re
<seb128> mvo, is ratings different from reviews in s-c?
<seb128> mvo, seems reviews are buggy, I can see items with starts and a number of "ratings"
<seb128> but they all say "be the first to review"
<seb128> like there is nothing at the bottom of the description page
<mvo> seb128: parts of that is a bug in the cache invalidation
<mvo> seb128: the other part is that if you e.g. on maverick you will see that there are 5 reviews, but they could be from natty so you will not see them (as they are not for a version you can install).
<mvo> seb128: that was a design decision, not sure if its final or if mpt wants to tweak it
<seb128> mvo, well I'm on natty and I would assume reviews are coming from natty?
<seb128> mvo, do you have any example that should show any review?
<seb128> just tried abiword, glade and some others
<seb128> none has a review
<mpt> mvo, hm, that wasn't deliberate
<mpt> mvo, maybe the reviews you see, and the average rating you see, should be for all reviews from the latest version you can install and versions before it, not for versions after it?
<fagan> mvo: hey, is it me or is does the recomendations thing look like it has no space before the number and no space after the word recommendations
 * fagan is testing out the reviews too btw and they are very nice
<mvo> seb128: if you are on natty, that is the cache problem
<seb128> mvo, yeah I'm on natty
<seb128> mvo, ok
<mvo> mpt: ok, thanks for this clarification, I will talk to the server guys about it
<mvo> fagan: it is not only you :) but its fixed now, just uploaded a new version
<mpt> mvo, sorry, I was asking you what you thought
<fagan> oh ok
<mvo> mpt: I think ideally we would aggregate the stats so that they represent the availalbe reviews and ratings for the user. its not easy on the server, AFAIK this is why it was changed there. there was a bug about that, let me look for it
<mvo> mpt: the trouble seem to be that this is a relatively expensive operation (the stats). but yeah, stats(visible_only) is IMO the ideal solution
<mpt> ok
<mpt> I wonder if there's some elegant way to weight ratings for recent versions more heavily than ratings for old versions
<mvo> a good idea
<davmor2> mpt: give the newer version preference over the older one :)  the issue is you still want ones marked as useful to surface nearer the top
<mpt> davmor2, that's another way of wording it
<mpt> We need a mathematician in here
<mpt> mvo, what do you think of this to start with: "The average rating for a software item, as shown to someone running a particular Ubuntu release, should be the mean of the latest 50 ratings for versions of the software that are less than or equal to the latest version available for that Ubuntu release."
<mpt> That way at least old ratings eventually expire
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm not sure why bug 294187 was targetted to natty, i didn't do that
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 294187 in firefox "Firefox Locales should install locale specific search plugins" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/294187
<chrisccoulson> good morning / afternoon btw :)
<mvo> mpt: I think we should not (yet) dive into the details but formulate a high level goal (like weight older versions lower or expire them) and then we can discuss how best to do it with the constrains we have (like that it needs to be fast to do on a db layer etc)
<mvo> mpt: bug #709172 for the basic problem
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 709172 in rnr-server "current reviews-stats is confusing to users" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709172
<davmor2> mpt, mvo: If we work with lucid, maverick, natty, would the simplest way not be to award lucid 25%, maverick 50%, Natty 75%, and let the star rating and usefulness flags take it up the other 25%,  and then when O comes out drop lucid to 0% and so on?
<mvo> I added the weight as a topic now too
<mpt> davmor2, not really, because increasingly there will be multiple versions for the same OS release
<fagan> mvo: is there any way to edit your review after you post it?
 * fagan just realised that he made a mistake in his gimp review 
<mvo> fagan: not yet, its a planned feature. but you can just post a new one (based on the old one) and flag the other as a mistake
<davmor2> mpt: Sorry I'm mixing versions with distroseries my bag
<fagan> oh thats ok
 * mvo is off for a bit to grab some lunch
<fagan> mvo: Oh and the title part isnt spell checked
<fagan> in the review
<mvo> fagan: *ick* what is wrong?
 * mvo will fix that too after lunch
<fagan> mvo: yeah ill let you get some lunch. I was just using the review title bit and it isnt spell checked no biggy
<fagan> I miss spelled a word on purpose and checked
<mpt> mvo, remember the keywords system we started on, for keywords that aren't mentioned in the package description? Can you remind me where the keywords are stored?
<nessita> good morning everyone! may I have a sponsorship for https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/natty/ubuntuone-control-panel/ubuntuone-control-panel-0.8.1/+merge/47757
<mvo> mpt: in the desktop file as "X-AppInstall-Keywords"
<mpt> mvo, thanks. Dylan McCall was asking about it (but didn't know it exists).
<mvo> fagan: hrm, hrm, it looks like gtkspell does not support gtk.Entries, so its not as trivial as I thought. could you please file a bug? looks like this needs some legwork first
<fagan> sure no problem
<seb128> re
<seb128> mvo, do you have any bug number for that caching issue?
<mvo> seb128: yes, bug #708841
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 708841 in rnr-server "review stats do not update on moderation or removal of reviews" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708841
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<seb128> mvo, ok, so what you are saying is that we have no user reviews yet which went out of moderation? which is moderating those?
<mvo> seb128: the bug is that if a review goes into moderation the stats are not updated
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right, seems like a wishlist thing to me; I'll downgrade
<mvo> seb128: into the moderation-queue that is (that means that it becomes invisible until its moderated)
<seb128> mvo, but are all comments going in the moderation queue by default before being accepted?
<seb128> mvo, and who is moderating the queue?
<seb128> mvo, like is there any review which is going to go out of moderation in the next weeks or will they stay there until a team is organized to do reviews?
<mvo> seb128: currently we allow all comments
<mvo> seb128: and then if someone flags them, they enter moderation queue
<seb128> ok
<seb128> mvo, so it means basically that nobody did reviews out of testing comments which went to moderation
<mvo> seb128: moderation I can do now, but the webui is not great yet, once the new UI lands we can formally put together a team
<seb128> so I just need to wait for real user comments to be submitted?
<mvo> but with the current UI I'm not sure, its just not good
<mvo> seb128: yeah, but there are some real ones
<mvo> seb128: like dejadup, audacity, lives thunderbird
<mvo> about 50 already
<mvo> almost scary
<chrisccoulson> mvo - i reviewed software center, but i didn't realise reviews weren't anonymous ;)
<mvo> lol
<mvo> chrisccoulson: you can flag your comment as inappropriate before I read it
<mvo> chrisccoulson: better do it now ;)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> it's ok ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, audacity has 0 rattings there
<chrisccoulson> it's not bad, but not a very useful review ;)
<mvo> seb128: a cache issue again maybe? its listed here in the stats
 * mvo looks
<seb128> mvo, software-center is weird
<seb128> the label says "write your own review"
<seb128> but there is no star or comment listed
<mvo> seb128: oh, for what package?
<seb128> software-center
<seb128> since chrisccoulson said he reviewed this one I tried it
<mvo> seb128: same here, let me debug it
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<chrisccoulson> oh, i can still see my own review for software-center :)
<chrisccoulson> libreoffice has a review
<chrisccoulson> i can see that
<geser> anyone familiar with g-ir-scanner knows how to fix "Unknown namespace for identifier 'midgard_dbus'"? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/60877438/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.midgard2-core_10.05.2-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<mvo> seb128: haha, so the problem appears to be (with the software-center review) - Sofware Center vs Sofware Centre ;) (GB vs US spelling)
 * mvo hugs chrisccoulson for his review text
<seb128> oh, doh
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
 * chrisccoulson hugs mvo
<mvo> I file a bug about that
<cyphermox> good morning!
<pitti> seb128: do you know a bit about epiphany? Can bug 575610 be fixed with a mere rebuild?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 575610 in epiphany-extensions-more "epiphany-extensions-more is not installable in lucid" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575610
<pitti> hey cyphermox, ca va?
<seb128> pitti, not really no
<seb128> or rather "dunno"
<cyphermox> pitti, oui, ca va ;)
<seb128> hum
<seb128> mvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/559506/
<seb128> is that known?
<seb128> it keeps displaying that via apport there
<seb128> mvo, when it does that I also don't get the yellow background around the review
<fta> MacSlow, hi, please revisit bug 708491
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 708491 in unity "Dash and indicators invisible when compositing is set in Metacity" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708491
<mvo> seb128: not known, let me check the code
<seb128> mvo, I can get it easily like this
<seb128> mvo, open s-c, select "installed software", type "glade", double click on the glade line which has a review
<seb128> hum, doesn't happen every time
<MacSlow> fta, argl... yeah... really misread that sorry
<fta> MacSlow, it seems it regressed recently (~ when dash landed), because i used to be able to switch between these two modes
<mvo> seb128: thanks, I have a look
<mvo> seb128: its cool, lots of reviews already
<mvo> stuff like shutter
<seb128> yeah, I can see those now that I use LANGUAGE=en
<seb128> it's a conspiration against french I see
<mvo> lol
<mvo> be the first ;)
<seb128> which makes me think, does the spec handle we wanting to write english reviews?
<seb128> or will those be flagged as french?
<mvo> it looks like there is a russion review for vlc, if someone can read russia, would be nice to know whats written there
<mvo>         "app_name": "ÐÐµÐ´Ð¸Ð°Ð¿ÑÐ¾Ð¸Ð³ÑÑÐ²Ð°ÑÐµÐ»Ñ VLC",
<mvo> seb128: if you are using a french locale it will assume you write french reviews
<mvo> seb128: and display you french ones
<mvo> seb128: there was a bit of a debate over this at UDS, I initially thought we should display native lang, english
<chrisccoulson> mvo - google translate just translates that russian review to "VLC media player"
<mvo> but then, amazon does not display you english reviews for the german site and my dad would not understand it
<mvo> chrisccoulson: great idea to use that, thanks
<seb128> mvo, I guess having $locale and a "show english review" the same way you do for technical items would be nice
<mvo> someone reviewed libirrlich!?!
<mvo> seb128: yeah, good point
<seb128> mvo, ok, so schedule for the day is to get popcorns and sit in front of s-c to read the reviews coming in ;-)
<mvo> s/popcorns/tea/
<mvo> and YES
<mvo> even unity has a review already
<seb128> mvo, I get the stacktrace from before often and it's like displaying every second when it happens
<seb128> the review list doesn't get its yellow rectangle when that happens
<seb128> do you want a bug about that?
<mvo> fagan gets a badge for reviewing so many items already
<mvo> seb128: please
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> mvo, ok, will open one
<kklimonda> mvo: wrt to X-AppInstall-Keywords I've asked you about some time ago - update-software-center scans only desktop files from /usr/share/app-install/desktop, so I have to add it there, right? When I do everything works as expected.
<mvo> kklimonda: if you add it to the package, it will be picked up automatically when the archive-crawler runs next time (about every week)
<mvo> or every two weeks, no fixed cron job
<kklimonda> mvo: ah, that makes more sense then modifying it directly :)
<mvo> yep, it will probably become a freedesktop standard too btw
<mvo> (without the x-appinstall- in front ;)
<kklimonda> great, I can push it upstream after that :)
<mvo> yep
<mvo> hey mterry! thanks for your reviews and for deja-dup with a utf8 in the appname, that helped finding/fixing a encoding bug in the server
<mterry> mvo, heh, awesome.  At first I thought you guys had maybe added an anti-review-your-own-app feature  ;)
<mvo> lol
<didrocks> mterry: no, he just blacklisted your app, as easy as that :-)
<didrocks> hey mterry btw ;)
<seb128> hello mterry
<mvo> didrocks: blacklisted stuff that sounds french actually
<seb128> is deja-dup supposed to have a review?
<didrocks> mvo: yeah yeah, I understand :)
<mvo> seb128: it has one for me
<mterry> didrocks, seb128: hi  :)
<mvo> seb128: but submit will give a error (also the review makes it acually)
<seb128> mvo, well it doesn't here even in english
<seb128> weird
<didrocks> like "the application is awesomeâ¦ unfortunatly, it sounds frenchâ¦"
<mterry> seb128, I hit a bug with my English review too, it was the title of the app that was causing the bug
<chrisccoulson> "But I do love it, and it saved all my data when I accidentally erased my hard drive."
<chrisccoulson> how did you manage that? ;)
<seb128> I'm curious to know if users will turn reviews in bug reports
<mvo> bugfix is in bzr, but will probably take a little bit until its rolled out to the server though
<mvo> seb128: well, "flag" :)
<seb128> ;-)
<mterry> chrisccoulson, ah, the review did go through it seems.  I was testing 10.10 install CDs, and picked the wrong drive.  :-/
 * bcurtiswx_ waves to room
 * kenvandine waves back
<didrocks> hey kenvandine, bcurtiswx_
<kenvandine> hey didrocks
<bcurtiswx_> hey didrocks
<seb128> hey bcurtiswx_ kenvandine
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<bcurtiswx_> hey seb128
<seb128> kenvandine, ronoc rolled a new indicator-sound tarball which fixes the build
<seb128> kenvandine, if you want to do the update
<kenvandine> seb128, great
<kenvandine> i was going to ask him for that
<kenvandine> seb128, but... it won't build either i bet
<seb128> why?
<kenvandine> looks like ted broke the api
<kenvandine> indicator-sound.c:191:3: error: passing argument 3 of 'dbusmenu_client_add_type_handler' from incompatible pointer type
<kenvandine> /usr/include/libdbusmenu-0.4/libdbusmenu-glib/client.h:141:22: note: expected 'DbusmenuClientTypeHandler' but argument is of type 'gboolean (*)(struct DbusmenuMenuitem *, struct DbusmenuMenuitem *, struct DbusmenuClient *)'
<kenvandine> make[4]: *** [libsoundmenu_la-indicator-sound.lo] Error 1
<seb128> right, that's why it failed to build, seems ronoc updated the indicator-sound api use
<seb128> well I pointed him to the build log
<kenvandine> oh... ok
<kenvandine> seb128, last night it had failed to build because of timestamps
<kenvandine> at least i thought
<seb128> kenvandine, isn't the lib using a .symbols?
<kenvandine> no... we really need to change that
<kenvandine> in fact
<seb128> how come neither of you did notice the api break?
<kenvandine> i will do that today
<seb128> thanks
<kenvandine> i looked at the headers that changed
<kenvandine> it looked fine
<kenvandine> i thought
<nessita> kenvandine: hey! I wanted to let you know that Ubuntu One will be in the messaging menu since we will be reporting user-oriented messages (we talked about this with Neil in Dallas). So no need to hard code us in the me menu :-)
<seb128> well reading the indicator-sound debdiff not sure it' using public apis
<nessita> (hello all!)
<seb128> those are not prefixing with the lib scheming
<seb128> hey nessita
<nessita> hi seb128, how are you?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks, how are you?
<kenvandine> nessita, when you are ready for me to remove it from the me menu, file a bug please and assign it to me
<nessita> I'm looking forward to the weekend! I need to do some stuff away from the computer
<nessita> kenvandine: if you (or someone else) could sponsor https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/natty/ubuntuone-control-panel/ubuntuone-control-panel-0.8.1/+merge/47757, is done!
<seb128> nessita, oh, away from the computer? ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128, ugh... the new tarball has the timestamps in the future again
<seb128> kenvandine, how much in the future?
<nessita> seb128: yes, I need that. My wrists are starting to hurt a bit...
<kenvandine> seb128, this is why the build had failed yesterday... the buildds don't seem to be happy with that
<kenvandine> 18554.174733228s
<mvo> seb128: just a quick question, the bug about the surface_mask_cache - that happend relatively quickly after startup?
<kenvandine> i love how specific that is
<mvo> seb128: I think its done, but it appears to be a race
<seb128> kenvandine, hum, enough to still be an issue
<mvo> seb128: and only triggerable quickly after statup of s-c
<kenvandine> seb128, i guess he is still having trouble with his clock... we couldn't set it in dallas
<kenvandine> which was very weird
<seb128> mvo, well, I ran it, searching for glade and double clicked on it
<seb128> mvo, so yeah, less than 10 seconds
<kenvandine> seb128, yesterday's built for me in pbuilder but failed on the buildds
<seb128> kenvandine, well if it build locally upload
<seb128> kenvandine, we will retry on the buildds in some hours when it will be over that timestamps
<kenvandine> i would rather maybe get the tarball recreated :)
<seb128> kenvandine, ronoc is travelling to the office, he should be back online rsn
<seb128> kenvandine, you got tedg to complain meanwhile if you want ;-)
<seb128> hey tedg
<mvo> seb128: ok, should be fixed in trunk now
<seb128> mvo, ok, so no need to open a bug?
<mvo> seb128: no
<tedg> seb128, Hmm, not sure I like that introduction to the channel :)
<seb128> mvo, great, thanks
<mvo> yw
<seb128> tedg, howdy, how are you ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128, at least it builds now
<seb128> tedg, we were just discussing how you broke some apis which made indicator-sound not build
<kenvandine> indicator-sound.c:191:3: error: passing argument 3 of 'dbusmenu_client_add_type_handler' from incompatible pointer type
<kenvandine> /usr/include/libdbusmenu-0.4/libdbusmenu-glib/client.h:141:22: note: expected 'DbusmenuClientTypeHandler' but argument is of type 'gboolean (*)(struct DbusmenuMenuitem *, struct DbusmenuMenuitem *, struct DbusmenuClient *)'
<kenvandine> make[4]: *** [libsoundmenu_la-indicator-sound.lo] Error 1
<kenvandine> tedg, ^^
<kenvandine> tedg, today... i am going to switch dbusmenus to using a .symbols file :)
<tedg> seb128, Ah, yeah.  I realized that too late.  It's an easy fix (and actually ABI compatible)
<tedg> kenvandine, Won't catch that one ;)
<seb128> tedg, right, in theory soname change
<tedg> That's a prototype change not a actual code change.
<seb128> mvo, waouh, we get reviews from people who are not hanging around on IRC
<kenvandine> oh
<tedg> No, no so change is needed as it's ABI compatible.
<seb128> mvo, cheese got one from someone I don't know ;-)
<mvo> seb128: popcorn for you as well, eh ;) ?
<seb128> mvo, tea you mean? ;-)
<kenvandine> tedg, got some time this morning to help me fix the tests in dbus-test-runner?
<mvo> seb128: lol
<kenvandine> seb128, did you get any time to work on geoclue?
<seb128> kenvandine, no, I got sidetracked in unity and compiz issues
<kenvandine> ok
<tedg> kenvandine, Sure, I didn't realize they were failing :-/
<kenvandine> it isn't failing
<tedg> Haven't built that for a while.
<kenvandine> well, it is in my package
<kenvandine> i want to run the tests in my package
<kenvandine> xvfb problems
<tedg> Ah, okay.  I can fix that.
<kenvandine> tedg, i need to go dig my external drive that has that stuff on it... i'll ping you in a bit
<tedg> kenvandine, FYI, I use "DISPLAY= make check" to test that stuff.
<kenvandine> tedg, i think it was only failing in pbuilder
<kenvandine> now i have something to complain to ronoc about... distcheck fails!
<tedg> seb128, BTW, it seems a bunch of my python stuff got corrupted at some point (bzr, ubuntu-one, software-center all broke) is that debugable?  Something I should worry about, or just reinstall them?
<mterry> mvo, is there a review feed or something?
<seb128> tedg, define corrupted?
<seb128> like the pyc files on disk?
<tedg> seb128, Segfault on startup.  Yeah, I think that's what's corrupted.
<seb128> tedg, try asking barry or doko
<seb128> but I would say you just better have to reinstall those since I've not read other issues
<seb128> seems likely a local issue
<tedg> That's what I'm thinking as well, but I just wanted to make sure before I fixed it :)
<pitti> mvo: argh, seems when I uploaded aptdaemon the last time I acidentally pushed into lp:~pitti/aptdaemon/040-update instead of the actual packaging branch :/
<seb128> pitti, no offense but it seems mterry doesn't like calibre :-)
<seb128> it got only 2 stars in s-c now
<pitti> hm?
<seb128> pitti, s-c reviews
<pitti> heh
<pitti> well, I can't say that I particularly like the UI myself, but it gets the job done nicely :)
<kenvandine> seb128, is the sound indicator translated at all?
<seb128> kenvandine, yes
<seb128> kenvandine, the sound preference and mute entries are in french there
<seb128> current natty
<kenvandine> ok... looking at the source i am a little surprised :)
<seb128> why?
<kenvandine> the POTFILES was completely wrong
<pitti> mvo: I'll sort it out
<kenvandine> none of the files listed even existed anymore
<kenvandine> but that is just a dist problem
<seb128> kenvandine, well it could be that it's still on the 10.10 template
<seb128> if the template updates are broken
<seb128> kenvandine,
<seb128> $ intltool-update --pot
<seb128> can't open ./../data/indicator-sound.schemas.in: No such file or directory at /usr/bin/intltool-extract line 211.
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> i am fixing
<seb128> kenvandine, so yeah it didn't success to build a template and so launchpad still has the last valid one
<seb128> which already had the strings for the 2 entries
<kenvandine> it was breaking distcheck... so he must not do that...
<seb128> [encoding: UTF-8]
<seb128> src/mute-menu-item.c
<seb128> src/sound-service-dbus.c
<seb128> kenvandine, ^
<seb128> should be set to that
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> already done :)
<mvo> weh, I will have to go in and defend calibre then :)
<didrocks> maybe I should force unity to remove the placesâ¦
 * tedg is left wondering if ratings and reviews is going to result in a significant loss of productivity amoung Ubuntu developers defending their favorite apps
<seb128> didrocks, well conflicts on them until the bug is fixed yes
<didrocks> seb128: also, we are discussing again on readding the compiz workaround with smspillaz
<didrocks> (it would only be the 3rd time :))
<didrocks> seems aquarius get the bug
<seb128> what bug?
<didrocks> or we can wait over the week-end and decide on Monday
<didrocks> a hang in the gconf part
<seb128> well I would add the workaround back for one user
<seb128> we got quite some people testing the new version reading bugs and comment
<seb128> only one complained about the hand
<seb128> hang
<seb128> doesn't seem worth doing another change just before the weekend
<didrocks> yeah, but it's still random. I'll test on slow machine like netbook as well
<didrocks> yeah, on Monday
<didrocks> just uploading the new settings + a fix
<didrocks> and the conflicts for unity and places
<seb128> better to give it a nice testing over some days
<seb128> ok, got to run for some 2 hours, be back later
<didrocks> see you seb128
 * mvo commits r2000 of update-manager
<lool> :-)
<mpt> whoo
<lool> pitti: Hey, so in apport I've seen that you have scripts under bin/, how do you arrange for them to pickup the local apport modules?  You set PYTHONPATH manually before calling?
<desrt> pitti: hihi
<mpt> mvo, I get a traceback when clicking the review link in 3.0-reviews: http://paste.ubuntu.com/559545/
<mpt> I guess that should be a relative path instead of an absolute one?
<pitti> hey desrt
<desrt> mvo: did anyone fork the software centre yet? :)
<pitti> lool: how do you mean?
<desrt> pitti: did you talk to tomeu yesterday?
<pitti> desrt: yes, I did; well, on Wednesday I believe
<desrt> it's been a hell of a couple of days for me, so i lost track :p
<lool> pitti: I mean, checkout lp:apport, run bin/apport-foo, and have it use the local apport/ module
<lool> pitti: so that you can test your changes
<pitti> desrt: you mean for http://git.gnome.org/browse/pygobject/commit/?id=27e3a6276ff5f2cdc03ddf69ee80d44c3bf2c094 ?
<desrt> pitti: oh.  yes.  exactly about that
<desrt> thank you :)
<pitti> lool: python searches in "." by default
<pitti> lool: so that doesn't need anything special
<pitti> desrt: you're welcome, thanks for the suggestion
<desrt> pitti: i can understand the desire to do what you did by allusion to g_variant_new()
<lool> pitti: Hmm it didn't work for me
<desrt> but g_variant_new() is deeply broken by its necessity to deal with the limitations of C :)
<pitti> desrt: NB, I didn't introduce that old syntax, I just kept the compatibility to it :) (I feel the same as you, it should only be one object)
<lool> pitti: I have moved a script from top-level which would work, so bin/, and now it doesn't work anymore
<desrt> pitti: ya.  i recognise it from when tomeu was working on it
<mvo> desrt: not *yet*
<pitti> lool: ah, perhaps that's not ".", but "dir of the script you are running"
<desrt> pitti: really quite awesome that you picked up this work btw.  thanks :)
<desrt> mvo: ;)
<lool> pitti: Yes, I think so as well
<pitti> desrt: yeah, it was nice to be at the hackfest, and pick up some stuff
<mvo> mpt: could you try "PYTHONPATH=. ./software-center" in the checkout 3.0-reviews dir?
<pitti> lool: test/run sets $PYTHONPATH explicitly, though
<mpt> mvo, it already is
<desrt> pitti: i'm sort of surprised you went, to be honest.  i didn't know you had an interest there.
<mvo> mpt: ok, need to debug it then :/
<pitti> desrt: I started porting stuff to GI some three months ago, so I was quite interested
<pitti> desrt: the gvariant stuff was actually a kind of side dish for making gdbus support in python really nice
<pitti> but I thought while I was at it I could just as well fix it properly
<desrt> ya.  it's quite important
<desrt> btw: i'm happy that you didn't present the possibility to do something like GVariant(5)
<mpt> mvo, if you can do it in time for a demo, that would be brilliant :-)
<pitti> desrt: you mean guessing signatures?
<desrt> this way lies madness...
<desrt> ya
<pitti> full ack
<desrt> it's very rare that you can guess properly
<mvo> mpt: when is the demo? unfortunately I have a appointment very soon (need to lave in 5min)
<pitti> desrt: I've been bitten by that in dbus-python too often
<desrt> dbus is a little bit more interesting, actually
<desrt> since you have some possibility to abuse the introspection information
<mpt> mvo, any time in the next couple of hours. But, it's not critical, I could leave it till next week.
<desrt> GSettings presents a similar chance too: we have the type from the schema
<mvo> mpt: ok, in about 1h I shall be back
<desrt> it would be nice to be able to omit the type information in this case
<desrt> but it would have to be done at the level of the individual bindings...
<pitti> desrt: I actually had a thought about doing dbus introspection to figure out the types if you don't specify them, but that's ridiculously expensive
<desrt> pitti: it's quite cheap for GSettings, though
<desrt> hash table lookup, basically
<pitti> right, but not with dbus; needs XML parsing etc.
<desrt> yup
<kenvandine> cyphermox, how important is it to have that "About" menu item in the nm-applet appindicator?
<kenvandine> cyphermox, it seems weird to have one indicator by default that has an About menu item
<desrt> and even worse: a blocking roundtrip and 4 context switches
<lool> pitti: Ok; thanks!
<mpt> kenvandine, KIWF
<mpt> Kill It With Fire
<desrt> pitti: anyway... if you have any ideas about how we could improve the GSettings interface so that we could do something like this:
<kenvandine> mpt, :)
<desrt> settings.set('key', [1,2,3])
<desrt> please let me know.  i'm happy to introduce helpers into the C API if needed to support this
<desrt> even cooler would be settings.key = [1,2,3] or maybe settings['key'] = [1,2,3]
<pitti> desrt: will do; but TBH I haven't played with gsettings yet, so I don't have current ideas
<desrt> the first one is problematic due to possible namespace clashes with built-in methods and the fact that many keys contain the character '-'
<desrt> k.
<desrt> but it's one of the main things that stands to benefit from the work you just did :)
<pitti> desrt: the second one would avoid that, and avoid pretending that it was an actual property of the object, and still look quite nice
<pitti> kenvandine: hey, how are you?
<kenvandine> pitti, good :)
<kenvandine> and you?
<pitti> kenvandine: question about "build libappindicator with gtk3"
<pitti> kenvandine: I'm fine, thanks!
<pitti> kenvandine: I saw in the changelog that it got "build fixes for GTK3"
<kenvandine> pitti, yeah... my upstream branch was merged
<kenvandine> but i am still struggling with packaging it!
<pitti> kenvandine: so, what exactly did this WI mean? that it builds against GTK3, or that it shold build an extra GIR for GTK3?
<pitti> or build a separate library which uses GTK3 (plus GIR)?
<kenvandine> that
<pitti> ah, ok
<kenvandine> which i had working in a package in december
<kenvandine> but now the packaging is giving me grief
<pitti> kenvandine: so we can safely move that to a3, as it's not blocking natty itself (just app developers)
<ronoc> aquarius, hey, did you see there was an update/correction to the playlist extension of mpris
<pitti> kenvandine: did you try the new cdbs multibuild thingy?
<pitti> kenvandine: let me know if you want me to look at it
<kenvandine> i haven't seen that!
<pitti> desrt: actually, a gsettings test case in pygobject would sound quite fine, as it's one of the things that we really ought to keep working once it does
<kenvandine> pitti, the problem i have is when i add the gtk3 build targets it stops installing the python builds and the gtk3 build
<kenvandine> i've done this in other packages with no problems... and it worked before, so probably something dumb :)
<kenvandine> pitti, got an example using cdbs multibuild?
<pitti> kenvandine: I don't, but maybe seb128 or didrocks still remember which package used that
<pitti> I know we talked about that recently
<desrt> pitti: the situation right now is somewhat mediocre: you can only deal with basic types
<didrocks> kenvandine: isn't there that in the current gtk?
<kenvandine> maybe
<aquarius> ronoc, I did not. What's that, then?
<ronoc> aquarius, its a signal to inform that a playlist has changed
<aquarius> ronoc, ahaha, yay! that's what we want. this is an upstream change from mpris?
<aquarius> ronoc, or a change by you?
<kklimonda> shouldn't python-piston-mini-client be a dependency of software-center? It doesn' start without it being installed
<ronoc> aquarius, something i noticed only late last week in using it,  so I asked the MPRIS to make a spec correction
<ronoc> aquarius, http://www.mpris.org/2.1/spec/Playlists.html#Signal:PlaylistChanged
<aquarius> ronoc, hm, that only flags changes to an existing playlist; it doesn't let you say "there are now more playlists than there were before, so call GetPlaylists again"
<pitti> desrt: for the test suite/demo program, is it possible to have a temporary gsettings store, i. e. to not mess up the actual user one?
<desrt> yes
<desrt> set the GSETTINGS_BACKEND environment variable to 'memory'
<ronoc> aquarius, for that you just monitor property changed for playlistcount
<ronoc> aquarius, this works already
<pitti> desrt: before calling g_settings_new()?
<desrt> yes
<desrt> before doing anything that might initialise gsettings
<aquarius> ronoc, ah, so if I call PropertiesChanged on the playlist interface you'll reload the list of playlists?
<ronoc> aquarius, in fact in 0.5.8  just released this is working already
<desrt> see the test cases in glib/gio/tests/
<aquarius> ronoc, sweet
<aquarius> ronoc, and that's the way I do it -- with PropertiesChanged?
<ronoc> aquarius, don't think it has been uploaded yet, I updated your bug to fix released
<ronoc> aquarius, yes
<ronoc> see the mpris2-controller.vala in my src dir
<aquarius> ronoc, excellent.
<cyphermox> kenvandine, I don't think it's critically important, I only felt it was right to credit the original author, but there are other places for that as well, so I'm not feeling strongly for keeping it -- I'll do an update today ;)
<pitti> desrt: ah, got it
 * ronoc digs up the link
<cyphermox> kenvandine, ETOOMANYCOMMAS
<kenvandine> cyphermox, great, thx...
<kenvandine> :)
<cyphermox> kenvandine, I'm also contemplating moving the new wireless and hidden wireless items into the "More networks" submenu
<cyphermox> I'll try that in my ppa first though ;)
<kenvandine> i ike that too
<kenvandine> less noise
<kenvandine> imo
<cyphermox> right
<kenvandine> mpt,  what do you think?
<mpt> cyphermox, hidden wireless is "Other Network..." at the top level in the new design <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking#menu>, so I'd prefer that you either (1) changed it to that or (2) had it exactly how it is in nm-applet
<mpt> cyphermox, what do you mean by "new wireless"?
<cyphermox> mpt, there are two items immediately below VPN Connections, Connect to Hidden wireless, and Create New Wireless (for adhoc networks), I'm wondering if it would make sense to move that out the the "More Networks" submenu
<cyphermox> OTOH, I can also just not touch it and leave it as it was, which would make just as much sense
<mpt> cyphermox, to minimize support and training costs etc, I really think we should (a) stick to the nm-applet position+wording of each thing until we're confident of the ideal design, and then (b) switch to that ideal design exactly
<mpt> I don't know where setting up an ad-hoc network will end up, but I am fairly confident that connecting to a hidden wireless network will stay at the top level of the menu.
<cyphermox> ah
<cyphermox> then I probably would rather avoid moving just one.
<mpt> fair enough.
<cyphermox> as far as I'm concerned, the placement really doesn't matter much
<cyphermox> (because I know how nm works), but I understand how changing things can confuse people
<cyphermox> mpt, however, I think Flight Mode is already a big change too ;)
<mpt> cyphermox, yes it is, but that's ok as long as it is as close as possible to what we think the eventual design for it is
<mterry> pitti, how do I disable scour on a per-package basis?
<pitti> mterry: cdbs?
<mterry> pitti, yes
<mterry> pitti, though I'd also be curious about the dh7 way
<pitti> mterry: only cdbs uses scour by default
<pitti> mterry: btw, I updated cdbs to only scour main packages now
<mterry> pitti, ah.  So I could switch to dh7 to disable  ;)
<pitti> mterry: so if you have an universe package, just upload a rebuild
<mterry> pitti, ah k.  yeah, was just curious for the next time I update deja-dup.  Sounds like it's automatic then
<pitti> mterry: with cdbs, you can set DEB_DH_SCOUR_ARGS=-X*
<pitti> sorry, it's a regexp, so -X.
<pitti> mterry: right, just upload
<scott-upstairs> didrocks, do you have time to help with the gnome-classic default xsession?
<didrocks> scott-upstairs: 30 minutes?
<scott-upstairs> didrocks, sure :)
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, when i open the list of users in xchat-gnome now, the top of the menu ends up going underneath the panel :(
<chrisccoulson> anyone else seeing that?
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, nope... for me it is on top of the panel
<kenvandine> in unity
<chrisccoulson> hmmm :/
<kenvandine> wow the right click menu in evolution is out of control
<cyphermox> kenvandine, how so?
<kenvandine> there is like 15 menu items in there
<kenvandine> or more
<kenvandine> right click on a message, all rather useful things
<kenvandine> but way too much stuff to put in one place
<cyphermox> ah ok
<cyphermox> bbl: lunch
<didrocks> scott-upstairs: around?
<scott-upstairs> didrocks, yes :)
<didrocks> scott-upstairs: so, what's up?
<scott-upstairs> didrocks, so last time we talked it looked like when /etc/gdm/custom.conf had [daemon]
<scott-upstairs> DefaultSession=classic-gnome
<didrocks> yeah, that's where you are heading to
<scott-upstairs> didrocks, then when a new user was added it should have come up in the login with gnome-classic
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> let me check the default session name again, btw
<scott-upstairs> didrocks, but it doesn't appear to be doing that currently
<didrocks> scott-upstairs: it shuld be gnome-classic, not classic-gnome
<scott-upstairs> yeah, i thought about doing that last night as well but didn't :/
<scott-upstairs> didrocks, huh, that could be the problem now, couldn't it LOL
<didrocks> the name you set there are the names in /usr/share/xsessions/
<didrocks> right :)
<nessita> hey guys, if anyone is available, can I haz a couple of sponsorships for https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/natty/ubuntuone-control-panel/ubuntuone-control-panel-0.8.1/+merge/47757 and https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/natty/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-1.1.10/+merge/47831 ?
<scott-upstairs> didrocks, doh, i feel like an idiot, alright, i'll rock this and see what happens again
<scott-upstairs> didrocks, thanks :)
<didrocks> scott-upstairs: keep me in touch :)
<didrocks> nessita: will get to it in 30min if nobody is
<nessita> didrocks: awesome, thanks!
<bcurtiswx_> if anyone is available, could I get sponsorship for https://code.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.32.2-0ubuntu7/+merge/47557 ? Thanks :)
<bcurtiswx_> lunch time, bbl
<pitti> good night everyone, have a nice weekend!
<didrocks> enjoy you week-end pitti
<didrocks> aquarius: do you think that desktopcouch will be fixed for alpha2?
<didrocks> still preventing me to work on oneconf :/
<aquarius> didrocks, that's a ralsina question (and he's not here, let me nudge him)
<didrocks> aquarius: thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - bug 707774 by any chance?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 707774 in couchdb "couchjs crashed with SIGSEGV in JS_NewGlobalObject()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/707774
<chrisccoulson> fixed already if that's the case ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: no, the server doesn't answer for meâ¦
<aquarius> ralsina, didrocks was asking whether desktopcouch will be fixed for alpha 2 because it's preventing work on oneconf
<ralsina> aquarius: we are trying.
<ralsina> We intend to?
<didrocks> ralsina: hey
<didrocks> ralsina: I guess this bug is known: bug #709366
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 709366 in desktopcouch "natty: oneconf-query crashed with ServerError in request(): (500, ('os_process_error', '{exit_status,139}'))" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709366
<ralsina> But! We are having some problems asking for support because of the version number
<didrocks> ok, but if it's doing the same issue than the one I had in maverick preventing oneconf to be there by default, I'll really consider using an alternative this time
<ralsina> didrocks: I had not seen it, and it's unassigned, so no, not known yet :-)
<didrocks> got that one my two natty machines
<ralsina> didrocks: will look into it immediately.
<didrocks> let me see if my couch is running
<didrocks> ralsina: thanks :)
<ralsina> didrocks: np
<didrocks> ralsina: it's been there for some weeks already, I didn't file it before because I was thinking it was more general and waited :)
<ralsina> didrocks: I had never tried oneconf yet
<didrocks> ralsina: well, it's still using the old sso, I wanted to port to the new one, and then integrate in ubiquity, but I need to be able to run it :)
<ralsina> didrocks: well, we need to run the new sso, so we can't really test it easily either. A bit of a problem :-)
<didrocks> urgh :-)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, are you sure your issue isn't really bug 707774? couchjs crashing seems to result in the response you get
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 707774 in couchdb "couchjs crashed with SIGSEGV in JS_NewGlobalObject()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/707774
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: maybe, I'll confirm once I'll download the new version (not published for me yet)
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<didrocks> at least, today, the good news is that cjwatson fixed the keyboard issue \o/
<didrocks> no more tty in qwerty :)
<ralsina> didrocks: what version of oneconf is causing that problem on natty?
<chrisccoulson> oh, couchjs still crashes here when i run oneconf-query :/
<didrocks> ralsina: 0.1.2build1 which is a rebuild of the maverick version (0.1.2)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: ok, soâ¦ no :/
<ralsina> didrocks: ok. can I get that somewhere?
<didrocks> ralsina: sure, are you on natty?
<ralsina> didrocks: yes
<didrocks> just apt-get install oneconf
<didrocks> there is a trigger ran after each install
<ralsina> Ok, then I tried the right version, but I need to update some other bits.
<didrocks> ok :)
<chrisccoulson> b'ah, this is what is causing all the problems: http://andreasgal.wordpress.com/2010/10/13/compartments/
<ralsina> and yes, the trigger failed on install. Later I get what looks like bug #707774 too.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 707774 in couchdb "couchjs crashed with SIGSEGV in JS_NewGlobalObject()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/707774
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, it is definately couchjs crashing which is your problem. i've fixed one crash and get another now ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: "nice!" ;)
<chrisccoulson> time to head in to #jsapi on irc.mozilla.org
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: thanks!
<didrocks> ralsina: and thanks for having looked at it!
<ralsina> didrocks: no problem, happy to help!
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/559610/
<chrisccoulson> that's the problem :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: ok, it fails then :)
<didrocks> it's just the 15th stack I saw today, a little bit depressing for a Friday :)
<kiwinote> mvo: hi! do we want to accept reviews for pkgs without an origin, or not?
<mvo> kiwinote: I think we shouldn't
<kiwinote> mvo: ok - I'll commit a fix in a bit
<mvo> kiwinote: cool, you rock!
<kiwinote> mvo: hehe - congrats on all your rnr efforts - it's looking all quite sweet :)
<mvo> kiwinote: I need to leave for dinner now. there is another bug in the code that it can't display blender, I have a cli fix commited to trunk as r1431, that needs to be massaged into the gui now :) just if you look for a challange ;)
<mvo> kiwinote: thanks, much appreciated, people already review like crazy
<charlie-tca> seb128: I have 62 applications affected by the resize grips bug. Do we really want a bug report on each one?
<kiwinote> mvo: enjoy dinner! I'll take a look if I don't decide to fix too many other things ;)
<mvo> kiwinote: PYTHONPATH=. python softwarecenter/backend/rnrclient.py that dumps them all, remarkable good the reviews
<mvo> kiwinote: heh :) any fix is welcome!
 * mvo hugs kiwinote and vanishes for dinner
<charlie-tca> seb128: reference would be bug 704105
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 704105 in gtk+2.0 "Resize grip always appears in bottom right of GTK+2.0 windows" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/704105
 * kiwinote hugs mvo
<seb128> charlie-tca, how did you count those?
<seb128> charlie-tca, but no, email rather the list or talk to bratsche
<seb128> we might just need to roll that out
<seb128> re
<seb128> kenvandine, gtk is doing cdbs builds
<bratsche> charlie-tca: How did you get the number 62?  And what do you mean by "affected"?  Just that they have resize grips, or that the resize grips are interfering with the app?
<charlie-tca> I opened every application in Application finder and looked at them using Industrial theme to see the thing
<seb128> what is application finder exactly?
<charlie-tca> Some have the resize grip interfering, but all have it showing
<seb128> well applications are supposed to have that, but do they show where they should not or break things?
<charlie-tca> It is an application designed to show applications installed
<seb128> like it's normal that standard applications get it in their corner
<charlie-tca> yes, for many they show over the close button or a scroll arrow
<seb128> it's not normal for things like the desktop background etc
<charlie-tca> It is always in the bottom right corner, regardless of all other things there
<seb128> hum, are you sure it's not the finder which display those buggy?
<seb128> can you give some application examples?
<charlie-tca> all the finder does is open the launcher
<charlie-tca> firefox, claws-mail, liferea, gedit, catfish, keepassx, mousepad, xfce-notes
<seb128> ok, no way
<charlie-tca> tomboy, solitaire, mahjong, mines, quadrapassel, gbrainy
<seb128> gedit is fine
<seb128> tomboy is fine
<seb128> do you have a screenshot of the issue for those?
<charlie-tca> nvidia settings
<charlie-tca> I did not screenshot 62 apps, no
<seb128> well can you take one of gedit or tomboy?
<seb128> they are not buggy there
<seb128> so I want to see what issue you get
<charlie-tca> so, you want the ones it overwriting another control?
<chrisccoulson> firefox is already known about
<charlie-tca> I will go looking again
<chrisccoulson> so, not that one
<seb128> charlie-tca, I want to see what is wrong in gedit or tomboy
<seb128> since they seems fine there
<didrocks> nessita: sorry, I didn't got time to deal with them and I'll log off soonâ¦ either someone can deal with it, either I'll do it on Monday.
<seb128> didrocks, deal with what?
<nessita> didrocks: no problem!
<nessita> didrocks: enjoy your weekend
<didrocks> seb128: 2 merge proposals
<seb128> oh, saw that
<charlie-tca> This is why I asked first. I was told to file them all by someone, but it didn't seem right if it is just a few slashes in the corner
<seb128> nessita, I will handle those
<didrocks> seb128: thanks :)
<seb128> charlie-tca, well those are a fix not a bug
<didrocks> seb128: still there for a few minute
<seb128> charlie-tca, it shows that you can act in this triangle
<nessita> seb128: is ok, it can wait until MOnday if pitti doesn't freeze the repo before that :-)
<charlie-tca> Glad I asked the right person
<nessita> seb128: anyways, thanks a lot!
<seb128> charlie-tca, that's what the patch in gtk is about
<seb128> nessita, no worry
<seb128> nessita, they will go in a2 for sure
<charlie-tca> seb128: I will go through and just look for the ones it covers things in, then. It will take a bit to do that.
<seb128> well no hurry
<seb128> we know of some buggy ones
<seb128> but it's likely to be less broken cases than what you indicated
<seb128> bratsche, ^
<charlie-tca> I just did not want to file a ton of bugs, that aren't needed
<nessita> seb128: awesome! you rock
<charlie-tca> thank you for the information, seb128 and bratsche
<seb128> charlie-tca, thanks for checking
<seb128> nessita, thanks, you rock as well ;-)
<seb128> nessita, btw you should probably apply for upload for those packages this cycle
<seb128> nessita, seems you are ready for that
<seb128> usually your updates are just fine for uploads
<nessita> seb128: I want to, I haven't had the time to fill my application. After alpha2 I promise I will
<nessita> I want to stop bothering you all :-D
<bratsche> charlie-tca: Thanks very much for your help!  It's hugely appreciated. :)
<charlie-tca> You are welcome
<charlie-tca> sometimes I wish I could do half of what the rest of you do, though
<didrocks> ok, week-end time :) enjoy everyone!
 * kiwinote goes to make some dinner
<kiwinote> mvo: as always, feel free to make any changes you may want to the fixes I've provided
<mvo> kiwinote: nice, thanks! I have a look now
<seb128> mvo, urg, s-c just hanged on a django reply error
<seb128> bah, it does it every time it seems
<seb128> mvo, s-c doesn't like the battle of wesnoth review
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i keep getting windows opening occasionally without a decoration
<chrisccoulson> and occasionally when i un-maximize windows, they don't get decorated either :/
<mvo> seb128: blender is the same, I'm preparing a fix now
<seb128> mvo, you should prepare the end of the week and fix that on monday rather ;-)
<mvo> seb128: actually a good point
<ernstp> Will the new Unity interface have desktop search and how will that work?
<mvo> seb128: new version is up, let me know
<seb128> mvo, k
<mvo> seb128: if I broke more, but showing the reviews should work now :)
<seb128> just back from dinner you should really call it  a wekk!
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, you should call it a week too :)
<mterry> mvo, in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PostReleaseApps/Metadata , there are example screenshot URLs that *seem* to use the apt archive 'pool' layout.  Can I correctly infer that if there is ever a library-viewer app, it will live under libr/library-viewer instead of l/library-viewer?
<mvo> mterry: we haven't designed it like this, it will be only the first char. for the pool it makes sense to have lib[a-z] as there are loads and loads of libraries and l/ would explode otherwise. but for apps I don't foresee a problem here. so it will be l/library-viewer
<mterry> mvo, ok, great
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-01-29
<smspillaz> bryceh: ping
<smspillaz> bryceh: do you know if some broken x server just got pushed ?
<bryceh> smspillaz, xserver hasn't been upgraded, but I did push some new driver bits
<smspillaz> bryceh: hrm, let me give you a backtrace of what's going on
<bryceh> (all booted and worked fine on the system I was using for testing)
<bryceh> brb
<smspillaz> sure
<smspillaz> bryceh: I'll try repairing things first
<bryceh> smspillaz, ok
<smspillaz> (sorry to ping you on the weekend :/)
<smspillaz> uh-huh
<smspillaz> and now it's gone
<smspillaz> after a few reboots
<smspillaz> bryceh: it was something about input devices though in the bt
<smspillaz> bryceh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/559815/fwiw
<smspillaz> bryceh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/559815/ fwiw
<smspillaz> aaand now its back
<bryceh> mm, yeah crash in -evdev
<smspillaz> seems to happen on normal startup but if I drop to recovery mode, resume normal boot and then start X manually there seems to be no crash
<bryceh> that's one of the aforementioned drivers I updated
<smspillaz> I figured :)
<smspillaz> let me know how I can help further
<bryceh> smspillaz, can you try downgrading to the previous xserver-xorg-video-evdev and see if it goes away?
<bryceh> er
<smspillaz> bryceh: sure. I'm not brilliant with by apt-foo, so how would I do that ?
<bryceh> xserver-xorg-input-evdev
<smspillaz> bryceh: sure. what's the command to downgrade things with apt ?
<bryceh> smspillaz, easiest way is to look in your /var/cache/apt/archives/ and see if you still have the previous .deb
<bryceh> if so, then just dpkg -i <file.deb>
<bryceh> or, apt-get install <pkg>=<version>
<smspillaz> sure
<smspillaz> 3a2.6.0-1ubuntu1?
<smspillaz> wooo kernel panic!
<smspillaz> ubuntu releases show just the accuracy of murphy's law it seems
<smspillaz> bryceh: hrm, even after installing that it seems I still have the crash
<smspillaz> bryceh: my only guess is that there might have been an ABI break which is not compatible with the nvidia driver - is there any way to revert to nouveau for now ?
<smspillaz> will sudo apt-get install xorg-xserver-video-nouveau do it ?
<bryceh> ooohhhhh
<smspillaz> oh?
<bryceh> yeah new 2.6.38 kernel will totally break -nvidia I'm sure
 * smspillaz yells at the drinking team
<bryceh> if you're using -nvidia, now's the time to uninstall it and begin your nouveau experience
<smspillaz> bryceh: but that doesn't really explain why the crash is in evdev
<smspillaz> bryceh: heh, although I kinda need direct rendering
<smspillaz> I actually use nouveau on my arch box though, it is very nice
<bryceh> if you need -nvidia you'll have to stick with a .37 kernel for the interim
<smspillaz> bryceh: is enabling nouveau's dri a pain right now ?
<smspillaz> reverting the kernel is going to open a can of worms for sure
<bryceh> there's an optional package to install the nouveau 3d bits
<smspillaz> bryceh: also, as an aside, I don't see NVRM complaining and I see the nvidia logo on startup so I assume something is working
<smspillaz> (nvidia logo because I had it installed from nvidia.com before, but then I purged it and installed it from the repos)
<smspillaz> (so I still have Option "NoLogo" "0" in my xorg.conf :)
<bryceh> well, if you downgraded -evdev (and restarted X) and it still behaves the same, then nvidia/kernel incompatibility is my next guess
<smspillaz> bryceh: yeah
<smspillaz> bryceh: what's the name of this package to enable nouveau dri ?
<bryceh> nvidia is pretty invasive so even though -evdev is an input driver it wouldn't surprise me
<bryceh> heh, was afraid you were going to ask that
<smspillaz> dude, I know how these things work :)
<smspillaz> just can't be bothered googling it (jcbbgi [tm])
<bryceh> libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental
<bryceh> libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental-dbg
<smspillaz> cheers
<smspillaz> ok, I'm still getting this X crash
<smspillaz> time to hose this system and try again methinks
<smspillaz> the nice thing is havign /home on a separate partition :)
<smspillaz> yay it works, sort of
<smspillaz> compiz works, unity doesn;t
<smspillaz> but that doesn't really matter
<Guest36276> hello
<Guest36276> could someone have a tip, I changed my  root partition size with live cd , not boot error, grub works, but when booting linux, it cannot boot, any good solutions_
<xapantu> Guest36276, maybe you should go to #ubuntu, I think you would get more answers.
<Guest36276> ok
<Guest36276> i found solution, i think. I also removed swap partition, and that was the problem
<xclaesse> damned, I have lots of drawing artifacts in xchat-gnome since latest updates in natty
<chrisccoulson> xclaesse, intel?
<xclaesse> yes
<chrisccoulson> bug 707236
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 707236 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "corruption in xchat-gnome window" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/707236
<chrisccoulson> i get it too ;)
<xclaesse> chrisccoulson, cool thx
<xclaesse> have to switch between desktops to get the view redrawn correctly :p
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it's a bit of a pain
<chrisccoulson> i might try downgrading the driver
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-01-30
<micahg> is there a blame option in cgit?
<abhijeet> hi guys. i m using ubuntu 10.10. but when i checked the "about ubuntu" it is showing "You are using Ubuntu 11.04- the Natty Narwhal - released in April 2011 and supported until October 2012". It's kind of strange.. I have not upgraded my os
<micahg> abhijeet: there's an open bug for that
<micahg> bug 690248
<abhijeet> micahg, ok.. then.. i think someone made typo mistake..
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 690248 in ubuntu-docs "In Maverick 'About Ubuntu' displays Natty info" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/690248
<abhijeet> or is it picking dynamically
<abhijeet> micahg, ok. thanks i will check it
<sivang> hi all
<sivang> has anybody managed to build spidermonkey from source?
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-01-23
 * RAOF â Drs appointment
<desrt> pitti: good morning
<desrt> RAOF: good luck!
<RAOF> desrt: Good morning
<desrt> RAOF: how was the doctors?
<RAOF> Fine.
<RAOF> With bonus repeat appointment for a week's time.  Yay!
<desrt> i can only assume that you're back in australia :)
<RAOF> This is entirely true.
<desrt> did they put you up somewhere nice, at least?
<RAOF> Not terribly nice in Heathrow; much nicer in Melbourne :)
<desrt> ah
<desrt> i guess it caused a sort of cascade failure
<desrt> can't reboot that many people that quickly...
<desrt> *rebook
<RAOF> Well, in my case it was because we got into Melbourne only an hour before the last plane to Hobart left.
<RAOF> And there was no way for them to know that I'd pass through immigration, get my bag, and go through customs in under 10 minutes.
<RAOF> â¦and there's the second projector.  Sweet.
<lifeless> hey, is unity5 meant to be fugly? like my theme has gone awol ...
<lifeless> (I have a grey top bar, fonts and widgets are looking very 1990's ...)
<lifeless> I figure something is broke, but I can't tell
<lifeless> tell what, I mewan.
<RAOF> lifeless: Sounds like gnome-settings-daemon has crashed?
<lifeless>  ps fux | grep setting
<lifeless> robertc   2348  0.0  0.1 383396 11872 ?        Sl   Jan21   0:05  \_ /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-settings-daemon
<lifeless> robertc   2363  0.0  0.0 241652  8000 ?        Sl   Jan21   0:00  \_ /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-fallback-mount-helper
<lifeless> (no :P)
<RAOF> Huh.  That's the normal cause of fuglies.
<lifeless> GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_value_get_uint: assertion `G_VALUE_HOLDS_UINT (value)' failed
<lifeless> WARN  2012-01-23 15:14:16 unity.launcher LauncherIcon.cpp:413 Unable to load 'user-trash-full' from icon theme:
<RAOF> Maybe Unity's not picking up when gsd comes back?
<lifeless> WARN  2012-01-23 15:14:16 unity.launcher LauncherIcon.cpp:413 Unable to load 'workspace-switcher' from icon theme:
<lifeless> WARN  2012-01-23 15:14:16 unity.launcher LauncherIcon.cpp:413 Unable to load 'folder' from icon theme:
<lifeless> WARN  2012-01-23 15:14:16 unity.glib.dbusproxy GLibDBusProxy.cpp:275 Calling method failed: Timeout was reached
<lifeless> .xsession-errors has stuff like that
<lifeless> this all happened on friday/sat in budapest/
<RAOF> Can you try restarting unity (just âunityâ on the cmdline will work)
<lifeless> 'sorry compiz closed unexpectedlyt
<RAOF> Has compiz come back?
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> still the fugly
<RAOF> So it just crashed on shutdown.  Superb.
<RAOF> Do you have âlight-themesâ installed?
<lifeless> ii  light-themes                                          0.1.8.26                                              Light Themes (Ambiance and Radiance)
<RAOF> And if you go into System SettingsâUser Interface and select a different theme, what happens?
<lifeless> nothing
<lifeless> oh
<lifeless> the color of the active window title bar changes
<lifeless> and WARN  2012-01-23 15:23:49 glib <unknown>:0 Unable to fetch children: Method "Children" with signature "" on interface "org.ayatana.bamf.view" doesn't exist
<lifeless> WARN  2012-01-23 15:23:49 unity.launcher LauncherIcon.cpp:413 Unable to load 'user-trash-full' from icon theme:
<lifeless> WARN  2012-01-23 15:23:49 unity.launcher LauncherIcon.cpp:413 Unable to load 'workspace-switcher' from icon theme:
<lifeless> WARN  2012-01-23 15:23:49 unity.launcher LauncherIcon.cpp:413 Unable to load 'folder' from icon theme:
<lifeless> WARN  2012-01-23 15:24:02 unity.glib.dbusproxy GLibDBusProxy.cpp:275 Calling method failed: Timeout was reached
<RAOF> Well, that sounds like Unity's actually picking up the theme change at least.
 * RAOF is out of obvious candidates.
<lifeless> would you like a baargh ?
<RAOF> Not particularly :)
<lifeless> sadface'
<RAOF> I suggest prodding and probing at DX :)
<lifeless> smspillaz: ^ oh hai
<smspillaz> all I see is that you want to probe me
<smspillaz> I kind of half awake right now
<smspillaz> and may have only slept 2.5 hours
<smspillaz> and I don't really know anything about unity's dbus stuff
<smspillaz> I fix stacking bugs
<lifeless> smspillaz: heh. I have no idea wherin the fail exists
<lifeless> smspillaz: just know I have the fugly UI
<smspillaz> probably gsd crashing
<lifeless> you know, thats what I thought at first
<lifeless> and RAOF asked the same thing
<lifeless> smspillaz: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/01/23/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t02:04
<smspillaz> RAOF: oh you had travel fun too ?
<RAOF> Yup
<smspillaz> RAOF: I find it slightly concerthing that the nvidia driver has a race condition where sometimes
<smspillaz> it will return NULL from glXGetProcAddress
<RAOF> That, um, sounds rather bad.
<RAOF> Only *slightly* concerning?
<smspillaz> only slightly
<smspillaz> my other concern is greater
<smspillaz> namely that when I hit alt-tab, I get a gpu lockup
<smspillaz> #thisiswhyiusenouveau
<RAOF> I can see why that would be a problem.
<smspillaz> ok
<smspillaz> back from freedom hating to freetardery
<RAOF> Oh, while I'm here, the new Unity doesn't like me alt-tabbing on the second head (sandybridge).  It briefly flashes up some other framebuffer contents.
<smspillaz> why are framebuffer objects so broken everywhere I wonder
<smspillaz> RAOF: if I remove nvidia, I'll just go back to nouveau right ?
<RAOF> That should work, yes.
<smspillaz> ok
<smspillaz> time for slower shaders
<RAOF> The postinst should remove the alternative, which should drop you back to mesa.
<smspillaz> ok
<pitti> good morning
<pitti> desrt: I haven't replied yet; I honestly think we'll just embarass ourselves more with every reply
<pitti> desrt: it's not credible for us to claim that we didn't knew this was coming; we did, through multiple sources
<pitti> bryce: oh, nice! I don't think it's just "our" interest, though, as lcms1 has quite a few bugs and zero upstream support any more
<pitti> bryce: so, nice to hear!
<BigWhale> Morning.
<BigWhale> What am I doing wrong? Is this a bug in introspection?
<BigWhale> http://paste.ubuntu.com/814034/
<didrocks> good morning
<BigWhale> Hello didrocks.
<didrocks> hey BigWhale
<TheMuso> pitti: Ok, just confirmed that java-atk-wrapper works as a drop-in replacement for java-access-bridge.
<pitti> TheMuso: yay!
<didrocks> good morning pitti, how was you week-end?
<pitti> hey didrocks, good morning
<pitti> didrocks: quite fine, thanks! nothing extraordinary, we went to the mineral museum and some long-needed shopping, otherwise were pretty lazy :)
<pitti> didrocks: how was your's?
<didrocks> pitti: pretty quiet week-end as well, a lot of walk through Lyon and restaurant/bar with Julie. Apart from that, still catching up on my 7 years of video game backlog (as it was rainy outside) ;)
<rickspencer3> hi pitti and didrocks
<didrocks> ah, and also, put the broken heater back to the store
<didrocks> 3 weeks to get it repaired :/
<didrocks> bonjour rickspencer3, how are you?
<pitti> they don't give you a new one instead?
<pitti> didrocks: video games> that sounds like fun! head2head with Julie?
<pitti> bonjour rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> bonjour mes amis
<didrocks> pitti: no, apparently, it just go back to the manufacturer for repair, then they will decide. For video games, yeah playing with Julie (or sometimes alone, when she is painting)
<didrocks> and we made some okonomyaki, first trial :)
<didrocks> not looking that bad: http://latolo.didrocks.fr/post/2012/01/22/ce-midi%2C-on-cuisine-jap-%21 :)
<pitti> didrocks: ah, never heard about that one; vaguely looks like something we made before, but it was much less sophisticated
<didrocks> we regularly had some in traditional japanese restaurants, quite easy to do :)
<czajkowski> didrocks: looks rather nice
<didrocks> heh thanks czajkowski ;)
<ricotz> hello desktopers
<didrocks> hey ricotz
<didrocks> hum, I'm sure bug #916780 is a dup
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 916780 in compiz "unsnapping a snapped window causes incorrect mouse placement" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/916780
<ricotz> didrocks, hi, you still missed one ;) DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS_librhythmbox-core5 += -V
<didrocks> ricotz: yeah, I staged the change in the vcs
<didrocks> ricotz: would be awesome if you contribute to ubuntu directly rather than duplicating the work :)
<ricotz> didrocks, alright, i know
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti. i'm good thanks, how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: quite fine, thanks! had a nice weekend
<didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson
<pitti> we saw "Intouchables" on Friday night in the movies
<pitti> really nice one
<pitti> didrocks: ^ I think it's from France even :)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, it is :)
<agateau> hey pitty, good morning
<agateau> I get a 404 when I try to get my action item list from http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/u/agateau.html  , do you know what could be wrong?
<pitti> agateau: hm, I'm not sure why; could you please ask cjohnston or james_w about it? I don't have access to status.u.c. any more
<agateau> pitti: ok, thanks
<seb128> hey
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: quite fine, thanks! had a nice weekend, some cinema ("Intouchables", great French movie :) ), some shopping, mineral museum, and lots of idling :)
<pitti> seb128: how was your's?
<didrocks> salut seb128, bon week-end?
<seb128> pitti, nice w.e, less "busy" than yours though ;-)
<seb128> basically sleeping, some TV, some video gaming, some sport
<seb128> lut didrocks, oui, et toi ?
<didrocks> seb128: bon week-end, cuisine japonaise, un peu de promenade + resto/bar et beaucoup de jeux vidÃ©o :)
<czajkowski> Je vais a Paris le Vendredi
<seb128> didrocks, ;-)
<seb128> czajkowski, hey, en vacances ?
<czajkowski> mon anniversaire ave mon bf
<czajkowski> My french is very rusty.
<seb128> czajkowski, you just need a bit of practice, Paris is the right place for that ;-)
<seb128> hum, monday emails...
<czajkowski> seb128: had to do it to leaving cert in Ireland to get into college, well any foreign language. That's a very long long time ago
<seb128> d-d-l turned into a troll list again it seems, now lennart give us some "you guys" and blame it on Canonical
<pitti> seb128: can we please stop this thread? I feel we just embarass ourselves more with each reply
<seb128> pitti, we do people (you included) keep writting "ourselves" :-(
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128!
<BigWhale> I might have hit Gtk introspection bug or I am doing something terribly wrong, can someone take a quick look? http://paste.ubuntu.com/814034/
<pitti> "ourselves" == "ubuntu developers" in that context
<seb128> pitti, I wrote that email as a GNOME contributors, not as Ubuntu,Canonical, and all I ask is for them to keep a public list of platform requirement and announce them at the start of the cycle
<seb128> seems that an honest request, not an embarassing one to me :-(
<pitti> yes, but the "how do we make this work for us now?" parts are not really helpful for either GNOME nor Ubuntu
<seb128> but next time I will write from my gnome.org email with a disclaimer that I write as a GNOME contributor
<pitti> the part for officially announcing requirements is fine, of course
<seb128> pitti, right, and I said at least 3 times that we never asked for that, it's the redhat guys who are driving the discussion on that road
<pitti> there were enough discussions to actually make everyone aware of it, there just was no "stamped" announcement
<seb128> pitti, there were discussion only because some people "trolled" it on d-d-l
<seb128> without that there would have been no communication out of git logs
<seb128> which is the part I'm trying to fix, just make them announce the new requirements
<seb128> *shrug* doesn't seem troll worth or a lot to ask
<seb128>  
<seb128> pitti, btw davidz's udisk email was useful
<seb128> it makes me want to maybe update gvfs and nautilus
<pitti> yeah, found that as well; haven't looked into recent udisks2 commits, to see what else is missing
<seb128> new nautilus has some nice things, including a dbus service for opening the file browser on a directory with a file selected that some applications start using, and a undo,redo feature
<didrocks> oh, great :)
<pitti> now that udisks2 has a release, I guess we can start packaging this into experimenta
<pitti> l
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> pitti, in fact looking at gvfs, davidz just added a new monitor for udisk2
<seb128> so we can probably update gvfs without issue
<pitti> right, the old gdu one should continue to exist
<seb128> pitti, do you want to have a look to the new gvfs as well when you look at packaging udisk2?
<pitti> sure
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> doing patch piloting this morning, but added to my TODO
<seb128> pitti, danke, and happy piloting ;-)
 * pitti goes into Kamikaze mode
<seb128> jbicha, hey, thanks for the webkit build fix
<pitti> jbicha: hey Jeremy, how are you?
<jbicha> I was running nautilus 3.3.3; 3.3.4 reuired a bit more refactoring for our desktop menu patch
<jbicha> good morning
<seb128> jbicha, oh ok, well still it might be worth the work
<seb128> but I will probably wait GNOME feature freeze to have a clear idea of the state and depends
<seb128> jbicha, do you run the new webkit?
<pitti> jbicha: do you still plan to do an upload for disabling the startup sound soon, or want me to reassign that work item to someone else?
<jbicha> pitti: I did that before Christmas
<pitti> jbicha: oh, thanks! setting to DONE then
<seb128> pitti, did you see my webkit question? ;-)
<pitti> jbicha: so that wasn't in libcanberra then
<jbicha> pitti: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libcanberra/0.28-3ubuntu1
<pitti> seb128: the "do you run..." to jbicha?
<pitti> jbicha: ah, thanks
<seb128> pitti, ups, sorry, it was a question for jbicha
<seb128> jbicha, ^ ;-)
<jbicha> seb128: yes I'm running webkit as of this weekend, I confirm that software-center doesn't like it
<seb128> jbicha, ok thanks
<seb128> jbicha, did you test on other softwares, find other issues?
<jbicha> not yet, we should test it with ubiquity though
<seb128> right
<kamstrup> seb128: It appears that the new nux packages dep on glew1.6?
 * kamstrup be toast
<seb128> kamstrup, yeah, we switched to glew1.6
<seb128> kamstrup, the intel issues we were having are fixed somewhat, we did testing in a ppa to see the current situation and update the bug
<seb128> kamstrup, turned out that it works fine in precise so we switched, no complain in a week seems good ;-)
<seb128> kamstrup, I'm inclined to think that your issue was because you managed to mix 1.5 and 1.6 abis in your build
<kamstrup> seb128: ok... let's see :-)
<kamstrup> mhr3: perfect, thanks
<BigWhale> I've been told that this is a bug that needs to be fixed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/814034/ can someone confirm?
<BigWhale> acknowledge
<BigWhale> before I file a bug report
<seb128> pitti, ^ seems for you
<BigWhale> Gtk introspection is apparently missing something
<pitti> BigWhale: it's cairo introspection missing something, yes
<BigWhale> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44336
<pitti> cairo is quite hard to introspect
<BigWhale> also related to this
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 44336 in general "missing support for cairo_region_t" [Normal,New: ]
<pitti> might be better to use python-cairo for now
<BigWhale> so import cairo instead of from gi.repository ...
<pitti> *nod*
<kamstrup> seb128: I see both glew 1.5 and 1.6 in the rdepends of libnux-2.0-0. Is that expected?
<seb128> kamstrup, rdepends?
<kamstrup> or the converse I mean
<seb128> kamstrup, you mean glew depends on nux?
<kamstrup> in the rdeps of glew1.{5,6}
<seb128> kamstrup, if you have different apt sources, i.e oneiric and precise, yes
<seb128> kamstrup, or if you dpkg status still has infos about the old version
<seb128> kamstrup, the current precise packages only use 1.6
<kamstrup> seb128: I meant "apt-cache rdepends libglew1.5 | grep nux-2.0" sorry :-)
<kamstrup> k
<kamstrup> let me double check my sources lists
<seb128> kamstrup, you better apt-cache show libnux-2.0-0 | grep glew"
<seb128> kamstrup, or | less and look into what version depends on what
<kscloud> Hey, I've found a bug in Update-notifier/manager, but launchpad won't let me report it
<kamstrup> ah, it's all precise, but I have an old nux version from a ppa in the cache it seems
<kscloud> Where should I take it to?
<seb128> kscloud, hi, can you define "won't let you report it"?
<seb128> what is it doing?
<kscloud> seb128: The option in Launchpad is greyed out. says LP needs to know where to report a bug for both update-manager and notifier
<seb128> kscloud, do you use Ubuntu?
<kscloud> seb128: Yes, I do.
<seb128> kscloud, use "ubuntu-bug update-manager" then
<kscloud> seb128: Thank you
<seb128> kscloud, you're welcome
<BigWhale> pitti, out of curiosity ... is it possible that pycairo is missing surfaces too?
<pitti> BigWhale: could be
<pitti> I don't know either, I'm afraid
<BigWhale> if this is the correct reference documentation, then there is none http://cairographics.org/documentation/pycairo/3/reference/index.html
<BigWhale> and dir(cairo) doesn't say anything about regions :/
<BigWhale> I'm stuck in a nightmare!
<ricotz> pitti, hello
<pitti> jbicha: do you want to take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~tkluck/ubuntu/oneiric/gnome-shell/fix-bluetooth-device-switch/+merge/89040 ?
<pitti> hey ricotz, wie gehts?
<ricotz> pitti, do you know if bumping libgnome-keyring to compat 9 is a typo while the changelog says 8
<ricotz> pitti, mir geht's gut :), ich hoffe dir auch
<pitti> ricotz: right, seems it's a typo in the old changelog
<pitti> the package is multi-archified, so it does need 9
<ricotz> oh, i thought 8 was enough for multiarch?
<ricotz> i only noticed the hardening rules are needing 9
<pitti> no, 9 introduced that
<ricotz> alright
<pitti> http://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/Implementation#dh.281.29_and_autotools
<tjaalton> 9 is finalized, btw
<jbicha> pitti: sure, that's fine, maybe we should go with gshell 3.2.2 now too? or wait for it to be packaged in Debian?
<ricotz> Pici, this mean the libdir flag is obsolete there too now?
<jbicha> pitti: I don't have bluetooth on my normal computer
<pitti> jbicha: I guess 3.2.2 should go into Debian either way
<pitti> ricotz: oh, how? does debhelper now default to this? I wasn't aware of this
<ricotz> pitti, i am not sure but i think it does
<ricotz> jbicha, hello
<nessita> hello all!
<pitti> hey nessita
<nessita> quick question: last Friday I had keyboard issues (dead keys are not " working" as dead), and I was suggested to upgrade unity-greeter. I did the update, and I assumed I would be able to choose the proper keyboard layout from there, but I can' t see a layout option... any ideas?
<seb128> nessita, hey, with the update you should be back to what you had before the buggy version
<nessita> seb128: so, under keyboard layout in system settings, I have a "english international (with dead keys)", but that' s not working: the dead keys are alive! :-) 'a'e'i
<seb128> nessita, no idea then
<seb128> I don't know a lot about keyboards
<seb128> nothing changed recently though, it should work as it was working on Oneiric
<pitti> nessita: what's the output of: xprop -root _XKB_RULES_NAMES
<pitti> I'm off to lunch now, happy to debug in a bit
<nessita> pitti: ack! thanks
<pitti> nessita: still here for a bit
<nessita> ok, I deleted the keyboard preference, added again, relogin, and is working now!
<nessita> has anyone reported any issue with dbus services in precise, with updates since last Friday?
<seb128> nessita, what sort if issue? nothing reported no
<nessita> seb128: is hard to explain, what I'm seeing is that the ubuntuone control panel is not being able to talk to sso thru dbus. And we did not land any related code...
<seb128> weird, dbus or similar didn't change since oneiric
<nessita> seb128: and the same packages that we build from trunk, which are delivered to us via PPA, are working on O but not in P
<nessita> seb128: I will keep debugging then...
<dobey> seb128, nessita: python-dbus has changed
<nessita> dobey: lovely (not). Any idea what changed? control panel can no longer retrieve credentials from sso :-/
<nessita> on P, that is
<dobey> nessita: no idea, but i saw an update for it the other day
<desrt> pitti: that's not why i poked you
<nessita> dobey: the other day would be a couple of days ago or more? because on Friday it was still working for me
<dobey> nessita: the last upload was 6 days ago. but maybe you didn't get the update installed until after that?
<nessita> dobey: I should be able to tell by looking at the apt log, right?
<dobey> nessita: yes. and you can install the old version to test, as well
<dobey> nessita: if python-dbus is the problem, you probably want to talk to barry
<nessita> dobey: confirmed I updated python-dbus on Friday
<nessita> dobey: can you please confirm control panel is not working on P? it will not pass thru the first screen, you will get "credentials error"
<dobey> let me make sure i'm up to date
<dobey> because it worked for me this morning
<nessita> dobey: thanks
<dobey> it's working for me. shows my total storage and everything
<dobey> so perhaps not python-dbus :)
<nessita> dobey: you have the latest python-dbus?
<dobey> yes
<nessita> dobey: you using amd64?
<dobey> i'm using i386 build
<desrt> seb128: so interesting question
<desrt> seb128: if there is libfoo1 and we have soname bump
<nessita> dobey: installed 0.84.0-2ubuntu2 (amd64), rebooted, and control panel is working for me
<desrt> what causes the upgrade to libfoo2 to happen?
<seb128> desrt, hey
<seb128> desrt, things depending on the new version
<chrisccoulson> lots of rebuilds ;)
<desrt> the -dev package on the pbuilder upgrades, pulling the new soname package, and then sodepends pulls it in for everyone else on the distupgrade?
<seb128> desrt, no point updating a not-used-lib
<nessita> dobey: you rebooted after python-dbus update?
<seb128> desrt, no, usually we just transition stuff to the new version by doing rebuilds
<desrt> seb128: right.  that's what i mean
<desrt> in that case it would be perfectly possible for the soname to actually decrease, i assume
<seb128> yes
<desrt> cool.  jbicha was asking.
<seb128> numbers don't matter, as long as they are different
<desrt> that's what i told him :)
<seb128> what project went backward in numbers?
<desrt> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45062
<desrt> spice-gtk
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 45062 in gtk-client "spice-gtk 0.8 breaks soname version numbering by using lower version number" [Critical,Reopened: ]
<seb128> k
<dobey> nessita: i don't know. last reboot was sometime friday
<nessita> dobey: would you be willing to try a reboot? I would like to know if it's an arch-related thing before pinging barry
<dobey> nessita: sure
<dobey> nessita: still works for me
<nessita> dobey: thanks
<dobey> seb128, pitti: hey, i want to change the source package for the u1 rhythmbox plug-in. best way to do that is a needspackaging bug for the new source? or something else?
<seb128> dobey, you mean you want to rename it or...?
<pitti> dobey: can't we keep the source package name, and just update it to a new upstream versin?
<dobey> seb128: yes. i've renamed the upstream project
<seb128> dobey, just open a bug on the old name requesting sponsoring for the new version I guess
<dobey> seb128: hmm, ok
<jbicha> seb128: ubiquity seems to work fine here with new webkit; I booted today's live CD, added the desktop PPA, apt-get update; apt-get upgrade and then ran the install
<seb128> jbicha, great, thanks
<seb128> jbicha, did you try banshee btw?
<seb128> seems it's only s-c so far
<dobey> hyperair: hi. are you working on a banshee 2.3.4 upload btw?
<hyperair> dobey: ah, crap, i forgot to merge it.
<hyperair> dobey: i'll work on it
<cyphermox> didrocks: how would you start a unity-2d session if that option doesn't show in lightdm?
<cyphermox> (or how can I make it show up in lightdm -- unity-2d is installed)
<didrocks> cyphermox: do you have the session installed as well?
<cyphermox> unity-2d-session?
<didrocks> yeah
<cyphermox> I don't see that package in the list, hold on
<didrocks> cyphermox: ls /usr/share/xsessions/ubuntu-2d.desktop
<cyphermox> yeah
<dobey> hyperair: can you please disable building the u1ms extension and drop the binary package for it as well? we've started the transition to gtk3, which means dropping the mono bindings, so it won't build with the new libubuntuone :-/
<cyphermox> shouldn't I be seeing a gear icon in lightdm though ?
<didrocks> should be in gnome-session, same for /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/ubuntu-2d.session
<cyphermox> interesting
<didrocks> cyphermox: you should see them then, if you don't have, I would say it's a unity-greeter issue, maybe look at the logs?
<dobey> cyphermox: i noticed it not appearing for me over the weekend, and when i switched to guest and back, it appeared
<jbicha> seb128: banshee didn't crash for me but I don't use the app too much
<cyphermox> didrocks: see, I reinstalled lucid on a desktop system I have here, then proceeded with an upgrade test to precise
<jbicha> the online media section seems to load ok
<didrocks> cyphermox: upgrade shouldn't impact that
<dobey> jbicha: try browsing through the amazon store and downloading a free song or something
<cyphermox> didrocks: thing is, while upgrading I lost metacity completely (no window decorations anymore) and now after, unity doesn't start its panel or launcher, all I get is the desktop
<didrocks> cyphermox: hum, what does you .xsession-errors say?
<cyphermox> didrocks: actually, I wonder if it might not have been because the binary changed under its feet, but it also could have been a n unrelated bug
<didrocks> cyphermox: I already tested an upgrade from lucid there, successfully :)
<seb128> didrocks, cyphermox: bug #918657
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 918657 in unity-greeter "unity-greeter_0.2.0-0ubuntu2 breaks desktop-selector" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/918657
<seb128> blame mterry ;-)
<didrocks> ah :)
<mterry> more problems!
<cyphermox> didrocks: all I get that seems related is:  WARNING:root:timeout reached, exiting
 * pitti gives mterry a big hug
<seb128> mterry, hey, happy new week :p
<mterry> :)
<didrocks> hey mterry :)
<jbicha> dobey: yes, downloading a free song from Amazon's MP3 store works
<seb128> jbicha, thanks
<seb128> so we are down to basically s-c, is there any other python-webkit user we can easily test?
<pitti> gwibber?
 * kenvandine hides :)
<kenvandine> good morning pitti!
<pitti> it's a Ken!
<pitti> kenvandine: good morning, how are you? had a nice weekend?
<kenvandine> sorry, had to get a battery in my car this morning... woke up to a dead car :/
<kenvandine> yeah, and you?
<seb128> hey kenvandine
<pitti> kenvandine: quite fine, thanks!
<kenvandine> awesome weekend actually, my son's pinewood derby car did great :)
 * kenvandine is a proud dad :)
<pitti> that sounds exciting!
<kenvandine> it was a blast
<pitti> kenvandine: FYI: gir1.2-gnomekeyring-1.0 |    3.2.2-2 |       precise | amd64, armel, armhf, i386, powerpc
<kenvandine> woot!
 * kenvandine does a dance
<pitti> kenvandine: please let me know if you have trouble with it
<kenvandine> has dobey looked at it?
<kenvandine> if not, i'll take a dive into it today
<pitti> well, it's for you, not for dobey?
<pitti> I thought you want it for gwibber?
<kenvandine> well, dobey started the port to gi
<kenvandine> i do
<kenvandine> he started hacking on gwibber :)
<kenvandine> wanting to help get rid of webkit-gtk2
<dobey> i didn't look at keyring yet
<pitti> dobey: ^ before you know it you'll maintain that beast
<seb128> kenvandine, you use webkit in gwibber still right?
<kenvandine> dobey, plan to? or should i?
<jbicha> seb128: I added my twitter account and posted so that looks fine
<kenvandine> seb128, hopefully not for long :)
<pitti> dobey: err, I meant to say: "Thanks!"
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, well in any case webkit 1.7.4 is in the ubuntu-desktop ppa if you want to give it a round of testing
<dobey> kenvandine: i can. i need to bug you about gwibber, but maybe keyring was in fact the issuse. :)
<kenvandine> seb128, sure
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<kenvandine> dobey, great... let me know how it goes
<seb128> kenvandine, we aware that s-c doesn't like it and segfault with it
<seb128> kenvandine, that's the only "known issue"
<kenvandine> dobey, i looked at your branch, looked like it was coming along well
<kenvandine> seb128, ok
<dobey> kenvandine: yeah, was hitting some crashiness, but it might have been keyring causing it :)
<kenvandine> brb. reboot
 * mterry is still getting used to new bug list look
<seb128> there are much harder to read that the old ones
<seb128> especially to see the status
<pitti> yeah, a lot less fits on the page now
<seb128> pitti, it's also that the rectangles are less easy to read and the colors don't mean a lot
<seb128> where a column with the status was easier to parse before
 * didrocks +1, let's see how we can get used to that
<seb128> well on the good side I like the columns sorting ;-)
<seb128> jbicha, thanks for the webkit call for testing
<hallyn> hm, when unity crashes, it doesn't leave a /var/crash/
<didrocks> hallyn: you should check for "compiz"
<hallyn> you mean in /var/crash?
<didrocks> hallyn: unity is a compiz plugin, the process crashing then is compiz :)
<didrocks> yeah
<hallyn> there was nothing in /var/crash from today at all
<hallyn> but, compiz is a new task since the crash (so compiz did go away and restart)
<hallyn> if it had done it a bit faster, and had restored windows to their original desktops, i might not have notniced :)
<didrocks> hallyn: do you have an older compiz file in the directory?
<hallyn> no compiz file in /var/crash at all
<didrocks> hallyn: we just keep the first crash in /var/crash, so if you have an older crash that you never reported, you won't get the new crashes there
<didrocks> weird
<hallyn> hm,but come to think of it there may have been a crashfile for weather indicator (which i deleted) - could that hae cuased compiz to exit?
<didrocks> it shouldn't as it's just a dbus protocol, but maybe it triggered some untested code path
<dpm> pitti, I've just noticed we haven't had any precise langpack updates since the 4th of Jan, and I see that they are disabled in the cron job. Is it ok to enable them now?
<pitti> dpm: ah, please do; we did that for alpha-1, I believe
<dpm> pitti, ok, cool, let me do this now. The oneiric langpack updates were also released, so I guess I can reenable them too
<pitti> yes
<pitti> kenvandine: did you hear other reports like bug 917460? Could you have a look? beuno is on IRC quite often for debugging, etc.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 917460 in empathy "empathy using constantly 100% of the CPU" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/917460
<kenvandine> pitti, i haven't
<pitti> kenvandine: I asked for an strace for now
<pitti> kenvandine: there might also be a log which shows what's happening? I haven't done empathy debugging so far
 * didrocks waves good evening
<didrocks> time for port there :)
<didrocks> sport*
<pitti> good night everyone!
<BigWhale> Greetings.
<kenvandine> hey BigWhale
<BigWhale> hey ken!
<BigWhale> how's the car? :>
<kenvandine> better... still needs an oil change and new brakes :)
<BigWhale> kenvandine, O ;et ,one in the show
<BigWhale> err.. I left mine at the shop
 * kenvandine is doing it himself :)
<BigWhale> kenvandine, awesome ... brakes I used to do, but oil change is something that is too messy for me :>
<nessita> Coincidentaly
<nessita> oops, sorry! bad windows :-)
<Formatt> In Linux, where is a good place to put a file like  registrymodifications.xcu to configure an extension system wide? - Where can a sitewide registry be located?
<Formatt> I'm asking this for a friend - don't know exactly he wants
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-01-24
<TheMuso> c
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<BigWhale> morning ...
<RAOF> Aloha didrocks!
<didrocks> good morning BigWhale, RAOF!
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<pitti> desrt: just sent my GNOME membership application :)
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how are you?
<pitti> hey RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> pitti: Pretty good.  Yourself?
<pitti> didrocks: quite fine, thanks!
<desrt> pitti: nice :)
<RAOF> To the cinema!
 * didrocks goes from FTBFS to FTBFS with new compiz since yesterday :/
<pitti> RAOF: what will you see?
<pitti> vuntz: bonjour!
<pitti> vuntz: for gnome bug 642692, I wondered how "committed" you are to the wnck_shutdown() API name
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 642692 in general "Provide wnck_shutdown() (?)" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=642692
<pitti> vuntz: if the name is fixed, and we just need to discuss the implementation, I would apply that patch to our packages already for broader testing and usage in notify-osd
<pitti> vuntz: but I wouldn't like to vendor-patch an API change without your consent
<pitti> didrocks: I think I already asked, but I forgot, sorry: What is "Provide some user journey in manual test case form" all about? (johnlea's WI on desktop-p-unity-quality)
<didrocks> pitti: John as a lot of "user journey" about "how to start an application", "how to reveal the launcher", and such. He was supposed to turn them into test cases
<didrocks> pitti: but I covered them in my test cases at the end
<pitti> didrocks: right, was just going to ask -- sounds a lot like the manual test cases you have already?
<pitti> didrocks: so I guess we can drop this one?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I think we can safely drop it
<pitti> done, thanks
<didrocks> pitti: the test cases that are not covered are the multimonitor and multitouch ones
<didrocks> multimonitor -> I'm waiting on the new work done upstream
<didrocks> multitouch -> I need timeâ¦ :/
<vuntz> pitti: name is going to stay, feel free to push it
<vuntz> pitti: I'll try to make time to look at it today/tomorrow
<pitti> vuntz: ok, will upload it to Ubuntu then; merci!
<pitti> didrocks: I recently noticed that the launcher doesn't appear if there is a window underneath it; I just confirmed in a guest session
<pitti> didrocks: do you mind a quick try on your machine, to ensure it's not something I picked up from a PPA?
<pitti> go to an empty desktop
<pitti> open a window (tried with terminal and devhelp, doesn't matter)
<pitti> move it below the launcher
<pitti> press Windows key -> launcher doesn'ta ppear
<didrocks> pitti: it works here
<didrocks> pitti: it doesn't appear at all, it's not a stacking issue?
<pitti> right
<didrocks> hum, I don't get this here (application maximized or not)
<pitti> didrocks: ok, thanks for trying
 * pitti downloads today's desktop CD and tries there
<didrocks> pitti: but your issue remember of one I had at some point
<didrocks> on oneiric
<didrocks> so, there is maybe some screwed state around
<pitti> happens for me in a freshly started guest session
<pitti> start session, ctrl+alt+t, move, press Windows key
<pitti> hm, wait
<pitti> windows+number also doesn't work any more
<pitti> didrocks: argh, silly me; ignore me, please
<didrocks> pitti: oh? what was it?
<pitti> seems I accidentally switched my keyboard from "windows" into "Mac" mode
<didrocks> :)
<pitti> there's a weird key combination to do that, and sometimes I hit that
<pitti> *blush*, sorry
<didrocks> *phew* no worry ;)
 * didrocks hugs pitti
 * pitti hugs didrocks
<seb128> hey
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> quite fine, thanks! how about you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<didrocks> saltu seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm good thanks. how are you?
<chrisccoulson> got the tbird and ffox final builds to do today, but that should be easy :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<mvo> seb128: remember that we talked about the segfault in gtk image with the new iconhelper stuff? I have a tiny testcase now http://paste.ubuntu.com/815206/ - obviously what the testcase is doing is not correct and yet it would be nice if gtk would not segfault here, especially not when using gtk :/ - essentially the problem is that icon_helper is NULL on destory and that causes the segv
<mvo> seb128: fwiw, oneiric did not segv in the testcase
<seb128> mvo, hey, right the old code was doing less in destroy
<seb128> mvo, can you open a bug with the testcase?
<seb128> mvo, btw is there any chance you look at s-c with the new webkit?
<seb128> mvo, nothing else is having an issue, I wonder if that's a s-c bug or if you could come with a small testcase
<mvo> seb128: where can I download it? desktop ppa?
<seb128> mvo, yes
<seb128> mvo, ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ppa
<mvo> seb128: sure I can file a bug, I don't have much hopes other than "WONTFIX" though, this is why I did not do it already
<seb128> mvo, well you seem to care enough to write a testcase, so we can as well have the bug for the record
<seb128> even if it's wontfix it still show a problem we might hit again
 * mvo nods
<pitti> RAOF: FYI, milestone "precise-beta-1" does not exist (it's ubuntu-12.04-*); but as b1 is the default milestone for that blueprint I just merged it with  "work items:"
<BigWhale> A question... Silly but important one! Is ~/Documents in Slovenia (or Germany or whatever) also ~/Documents or it gets translated?
<pitti> BigWhale: it does get translated, but not quite at runtime
<pitti> BigWhale: see ~/.config/user-dirs.{dirs,locale}
<pitti> BigWhale: /etc/X11/Xsession.d/60xdg-user-dirs-update checks for locale changes, or "first login" creation of those
<BigWhale> pitti, ah, thanks!
<pitti> didrocks: would it be okay for me to upload an unity-2d to drop the invalid "use-strut" from /usr/share/GConf/gsettings/unity-2d.convert ?
<didrocks> pitti: sure, you need to push the same change back to lp:unity-2d as well though
<pitti> didrocks: hm, can't push to the branches
<pitti> Vcs-Bzr: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-2d-team/unity-2d/oneiric
<didrocks> pitti: is it invalid? I didn't follow the story
<pitti> that seems out of date, and a /precise doesn't exist
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, it's just lp:unity-2d
<pitti> didrocks: yes, it makes gsettings-data-convert crash and thus breaks the settings migrations for every upgrader
<pitti> didrocks: ah, no separate upstream/packaging branches?
<didrocks> pitti: upstream really wanted the packaging to be in upstream trunk
<pitti> didrocks: normal MP, or what is the procedure these days?
<didrocks> and that was on the armel time (when the armel team maintained it)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, normal MP
<pitti> will also fix Vcs-Bzr: while I'm at it
<didrocks> pitti: thanks :)
<didrocks> IIRC, use-strut was for the autohide mode
 * didrocks checks the schema
<didrocks> hum, that's weird
<didrocks> pitti: wait, pinging greyback
<didrocks> ah, not online right now :/
<pitti> ah, ok; committed locally for now
<didrocks> those keys should still be there, hence my surprise
<pitti> grepping for "strut" there is not much
<didrocks> yeah
<pitti> no querying from gsettings, anyway, so it doesn't look like an omission in the schema
<didrocks> pitti: it's not, ther is stil super-key-enable
<pitti> didrocks: r804
<didrocks> pitti: but hide-mode is not available as well
<pitti> This branch removes the use-struts dconf option and enables struts automatically when the user selects hide-mode 0 (never hide).
<didrocks> pitti: do you have "hide-mode" in the schema?
<pitti> yes
<didrocks> urgh, dconf-editor doesn't show it here
 * didrocks pokes gsettings directly
<didrocks> pitti: ok, got it there :)
<pitti> r804 doesn't look like an accident, anyway
<didrocks> yeah, makes sense, I was afraid about not seeing "hide-mode" anymore as well
<didrocks> but seems a dconf-editor issue
<didrocks> so yeah, just MP please :)
<pitti> https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/unity-2d/fix-gsettings-migration/+merge/89882
<pitti> didrocks: I suppose I shouldn't upload before it is merged
<didrocks> pitti: if this can wait, yes :)
<didrocks> if not, please go ahead, I'll erase in next upload
<pitti> a day or two is certainly okay, it's just a major regression since december
<pitti> fortunately we have test cases for this since yesterday :)
<nessita> hello everyone! I saw Chris email re: X updates... and I see all the updates in apt. Is it safe to upgrade?
<pitti> nessita: I've been running with those packages for a week or so, no trouble  here
<didrocks> pitti: heh, excellent! will be no thursday 2nd february for next release :)
<pitti> Thinkpad X201/intel arrandale
<pitti> didrocks: ugh, 2nd Febryary?
<pitti> that's still quite some time
<pitti> it's also the day of soft-freeze for alpha-2
<pitti> well, /me bows to the gods of workflows :)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, post alpha2
<pitti> didrocks: can we at least get this into alpha-2?
<pitti> to avoid breaking the migration for every upgrader?
<didrocks> pitti: the 2 february is the alpha2, isn't it?
<didrocks> pitti: so please go ahead and upload
<didrocks> pitti: next release will only be post alpha2 (freeze on monday)
<pitti> ok, doing that then; I don't care much about preserving the changelog
<pitti> didrocks: will that cause you lots of trouble?
 * pitti is torn back and forth between pissing off you or upgraders
<didrocks> pitti: no no, don't worry, maybe I won't have the changelog in the next upload but that's it :)
<pitti> yeah, I don't care much
<pitti> seb128: ^ once I locally fix the unity-2d conversion schema on the live system, it stops crashing; so shotwell seems to be a corner case only, or already fixed?
<pitti> didrocks: hm, how do you build a source package from these branches these days? use --commit?
<didrocks> pitti: with source 3 arguing at you for having distro-patch, right?
<seb128> pitti, not sure I understand the shotwell issue, the key they list in the .convert is in one of the .schemas, that case might be fixed by the gconf commit I showed earlier
<pitti> didrocks: yes
<pitti> seb128: oh, is that already 8in?
<didrocks> pitti: remove source 3, I didn't for unity-2d yet but as it doesn't play well with merge-upstreamâ¦
<seb128> pitti, no, still on my list for today
<didrocks> pitti: I did for others, especially thinking about you with SRU :)
<pitti> seb128: so it's not that
<pitti> didrocks: ok, will do that
<seb128> pitti, well, it doesn't happen every time for sure, I don't know what conditions trigger it, it's not as obvious as the unity-2d case where an invalid key was listed
<jbicha> good morning
<jbicha> seb128: could we get librsvg updated to 2.35.1 to fix bug 920796?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 920796 in librsvg "gcompris FTBFS: 'RsvgSizeFunc' is deprecated [-Werror=deprecated-declarations]" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/920796
<pitti> hey jbicha
<seb128> hey jbicha
<seb128> jbicha, guess we could, evfool did the update to .0 since .1 has an abi break which got revert in git after .1 but they didn't roll .2 yet
<seb128> jbicha, so if we do we need to backport extra fixes as well, I was going to wait for .2
<seb128> see bug #918016
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 918016 in librsvg "Request to update to new upstream version 2.35.0" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/918016
<seb128> jbicha, do you want to do the update? or should I add it to my list?
<jbicha> seb128: oh ok, I don't have upload permissions for it
<seb128> jbicha, I can sponsor it if you want ;-)
<jbicha> seb128: ok I'll work on it today :)
<seb128> jbicha, thanks
<arand> Which resolutions for icons does Unity use by default? Is there any benefit to installing x64 and x128 versions if they are just resized versions of a x256 image?
<pitti> arand: for most icons, it shouldn't matter; our standard icons are SVG anyway (and thus scale well to any size), and the launcher uses someting in the range of 48 to 64
<seb128> arand, you can try asking #ubuntu-unity if you want details on what unity uses in the launcher and dash
<arand> I already did so and got no responase :/
<seb128> desrt, hey
<desrt> hey
<seb128> arand, when? maybe it was a bad time and you should try again?
<seb128> desrt, some bugs,questions for you about the new appmenu show,hide xsettings based
<arand> About an hour ago.
<seb128> desrt, if you have a few minutes
<desrt> seb128: for you, i have _hours_
<desrt> :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> desrt, ok, so first some people uninstall appmenu-gtk to get ride of the appmenu in oneiric
<seb128> desrt, interesting side effect is that they get the xsettings set because unity-panel-service is running but the menus not exported...
<seb128> desrt, in precise
<seb128> where should that be fixed? (trying to figure where to send the bug)
<seb128> in the gtk patch?
<desrt> it should be fixed by telling them to stop running the appmenu indicator
<seb128> ok, so uninstalling indicator-appmenu as well I guess
<desrt> well
<seb128> or installing back appmenu-gtk rather
<arand> pitti: So there's no benefit to installing smaller icons unless they are actually made for that format? the gtk-icon-cache will generate and store appropriate resizes anyways (so there's no performance benefit)?
<desrt> isn't the UBUNTU_MENUPROXDY env var only set by the xsession scripts in the case that appmenu-gtk is installed?
<desrt> 80appmenu:	export UBUNTU_MENUPROXY="libappmenu.so"
<desrt> 80appmenu-gtk3:	export UBUNTU_MENUPROXY="libappmenu.so"
<seb128> desrt, right, thing is that if you uninstall the gtk3 version only you still get the variable
<desrt> nice house of cards here
<seb128> which is sort of a mixmatch broken config
<chrisccoulson> seb128, have you also seen the bug where people are running nautilus with sudo and not getting a menu at all? ;)
<desrt> FML.
<seb128> chrisccoulson, shush, that's my second one
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you are spoling my question!
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, that makes sense, no env variable set
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> :)
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, right :)
<kenvandine> annoying though
<seb128> desrt, so second is what chrisccoulson mentioned
<seb128> not specific to nautilus
<seb128> sudo gedit is the same
<desrt> can we just kill our stupid users?
<chrisccoulson> YES!
 * kenvandine thinks we need a better way than setting env
<desrt> let's have the same conversation about what happens if you do X forwarding
<seb128> gsettings key?
<desrt> i bet the answer is sort of the same!
<kenvandine> desrt, if it wasn't for users, our job would be AWESOME :)
<kenvandine> seb128, that would be better i think
<pitti> arand: I don't think gtk-icon-cache caches pre-rendered icons
<chrisccoulson> desrt, we need a "if (getuid() == 0) exit(-EDUMBASS)" in gtk
<seb128> kenvandine, I don't think the issue is the environment, sudo doesn't strip it, does it?
<seb128> $ sudo sh -c "echo $UBUNTU_MENUPROXY"
<seb128> libappmenu.so
<kenvandine> but we would need to disable them if libappmenu isn't loaded or the setting was disabled
<kenvandine> seb128, how about gtksu ?
<kenvandine> i think it might
<seb128> desrt has a point that Xorg forwarding will hit similar issues
<kenvandine> sudo from a terminal i think is ok
<seb128> kenvandine, well first, should stuff running with sudo have their menus exported or not?
<desrt> i wonder if xsettings was the wrong approach
<seb128> kenvandine, no it's not
<kenvandine> but "Run as" kind of thing is broken
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> kenvandine, sudo gedit leads to the bug since the xsettings is set for the session
<seb128> without consideration for the user
<seb128> kenvandine, the menu showing in precise is done based on the xsettings
<kenvandine> ok
<desrt> seb128: for the first complaint my answer is that you need to educate your users (which will probably happen automatically on various forums)
<desrt> seb128: for the second complaint my answer is... uhm... i dunno
<seb128> desrt, thrid one, is that gnotravex stopped having is gmenu showing in unity appmenu where that was working during the rally ... do you know why?
<desrt> no.  i find that most curious.
<seb128> :-(
<desrt> oh.  yes.
<desrt> it makes sense, actually
<seb128> oh?
<desrt> so gtk checks the xsettings property to determine if it should show the menu locally
<desrt> it sees that shell-shows-menu is set and decides the answer is "no"
<desrt> which means that the gtk module has nothing to rip out
<seb128> ok, makes sense
<desrt> i think it may have been a mistake to use the same xsettings for two very similar but not-quite-the-same meanings
<seb128> desrt, you still plan to make appmenu consume gmenus this cycle? i.e to fix that?
<seb128> desrt, I don't care much about 1, but I'm a bit nervous about the sudo, fwd and gmenu on unity stuff for the lts ;-)
<desrt> i wasn't planning on it, no
<desrt> but it seems like i may have to
<seb128> desrt, so you think the current xsettings are not a good fit after all?
<desrt> the trouble with any dbus-based scheme for knowing when to have the menus is that we get into that silly dancing-menu situation
<desrt> xsettings are solid and there right from the start.  nothing to wait for.
<jbicha> epiphany also uses the new appmenu but I was leaving that in the gnome3 ppa until webkit migrates to precise
<jbicha> I suspect several of the games will be using the new menu soon
<desrt> jbicha: several already are
<seb128> jbicha, right, gnotravex is my testcase in precise
<desrt> seb128: for the record, i consider the gnotravex case to be the only truly worrying one
<seb128> desrt, doing sudo gedit and having no menu is a bit annoying as well, people do need to edit system files ;-)
<desrt> seb128: i'm with chrisccoulson on this point
<desrt> g_assert (getuid() != 0);
<seb128> what do you recommend?
<seb128> how do you tell users to edit system files?
<desrt> nano?
<chrisccoulson> vim!
<seb128> ...
<chrisccoulson> :-)
<seb128> not very constructive guys :p
<seb128> I agree the nautilus case is on crack
<seb128> but I disagree the "edit files in etc using gedit" is
<desrt> it's equally bad
<desrt> that said, i don't think that this particular way of failing is really acceptable
<desrt> again -- i'd prefer if it exploded in your face immediately
<desrt> but i doubt you'll want to do that
<jbicha> we should just crash when we fail! ;)
<desrt> jbicha: GSettings-style software engineering practices :)
<kenvandine> grrr
<kenvandine> i hate that :)
<ricotz> i know
<desrt> what we need is a reliable way to determine if we are in the proper session
<desrt> ie: detect these weird sudo/x11-fwd cases
<desrt> interesting story
<seb128> yeah
<desrt> i was talking to christian hammond (chipx86) over the weekend
<desrt> and he said that your gtk patching makes his life absolutely miserable
<desrt> it interacts quite badly with vmware's native-window thing
<desrt> because it rips the menu out of the window
<desrt> but then vmware puts the window on the windows machine
<seb128> desrt, I'm not even sure why the sudo case is not working, would it make sense to use the current user session bus for sudo as well?
<desrt> and the menu is nowhere to be found
<desrt> so this is another related issue...
<desrt> seb128: that's a really complicated question that you're not likely to get a satisfactory answer to
<seb128> ok, not the way to go then
<desrt> seb128: mostly because any person who is qualified to answer that you ask it to will tell you "don't do that"
<seb128> desrt, I guess the sudo issue will happen the way under gnome-shell right? like if you run gnotravex it will get no menu right?
<desrt> quite odd
<desrt> DISPLAY makes it into sudo
<desrt> but DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS does not
<desrt> seb128: sudo gnotravex? :)
<seb128> desrt, yes, as a testcase :p
<desrt> ya.  i bet it's broken.
<desrt> "don't do that"
<pitti> desrt: DISPLAY is one of the few whitelisted sudo env vars which are kept
<desrt> pitti: can we turn that off? :)
<pitti> ./plugins/sudoers/env.c, initial_keepenv_table[]
<pitti> desrt: err, no?
<desrt> pitti: of all people i know that i don't need to have the "sudo [x application] is bad" conversation with you :)
<pitti> desrt: well, you can turn it off for a particular call, or in /etc/sudoers, but we use it for $deity knows many things, and so do users
<pitti> desrt: well, it's not that I like them, but people do use them..
<desrt> right.  fair enough.
<jbicha> oh wow, this hud things brings back memories of Office XP's personalized menus
<desrt> so it's pretty simple
<desrt> we need a robust mechanism for determining if the connecting client is in the "native context" of the x server
<pitti> desrt: there was an entire project and library (libgksu/gksu/gksudo) written around it, so apparently it's useful
<desrt> which in this case means "can connect to the same session bus"
<pitti> desrt: although in the past it was a lot more important
<pitti> desrt: like, "gksu synaptics" in a .desktop file
<pitti> these days we have polkit and root-running d-bus backends and all that
<pitti> we aren't quite at zero yet, but very close
<desrt> pitti: indeed... that's what i was getting at
<desrt> all of this will soon be an unpleasant memory
<pitti> not that pkexec would be any better, though :)
<pitti> (if you use it to launch X-ish stuff)
<desrt> so i have a thought
<desrt> unix:abstract=/tmp/dbus-JZ8XIKEi1E,guid=80949262084dbaf430eea21d00000011
<desrt> instead of storing the shell-shows-app-menu property as a bool
<desrt> we could store the dbus guid
<desrt> and we only consider it valid if we have the same guid on our own session bus
<pitti> desrt: in fact, I think I (well, apport) is one of the last bad guys, aside from checkbox-gtk and update-notifier
<desrt> otherwise we ignore it, because obviously it won't be working anyway
<desrt> that will catch every broken case
<desrt> this may well break in a systemd future, though
<pitti> jbicha: do you know whether freerdp will be uploaded to Debian soon?
<pitti> jbicha: (you committed 1.0 to git, but wasn't uploaded yet)
<seb128> desrt, well let's do it in a way which works in the present and adapt it to what is available in the futur when that happens
<desrt> seb128: i want to make sure that it continues to be possible to do this without synchronous dbus calls
<seb128> desrt, well I guess at this point it's better to switch to a bug or list discussion
<desrt> interesting
<desrt> gdbusconnection has a "guid" property
<jbicha> pitti: the issue is that someone else proposed different packaging for freerdp and I'm not sure what of that needs to be added to git
<jbicha> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=647498
<ubot2`> Debian bug 647498 in freerdp "freerdp: Consider packaging git snapshot?" [Wishlist,Open]
<pitti> jbicha: ah, thanks; I'll have a look ASAP
<jbicha> pitti: thanks
<pitti> jbicha: probably tomorrow, though, need to run in about 20 mins
<seb128> pitti, will you be back for the meeting if there is one?
<seb128> pitti, or do you want me to handle it?
<seb128> pitti, well "it" the "ping people and see if we do a meeting" ;-)
<seb128> pitti, ignore the question I just read your reminder email after the first line :p
<didrocks> seb128: what, there is content in the email reminder?
<didrocks> it's just not a link to click on it? :p
<seb128> didrocks, :-p
<pitti> seb128: would be nice, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, I learnt my lesson ;-)
<seb128> pitti, will do
<pitti> seb128: but I don't think we'll have one, no items until now
<seb128> pitti, right, it's likely we will not, still I can do a round of ping and see if any topic comes
<seb128> pitti, I know nessita want to make a call for endorsements for her per package upload application wikipage
<nessita> yes I do!
<seb128> ;-)
<nessita> shall I drop the request now then?
<seb128> nessita, you can mention it yes ;-)
<seb128> doesn't hurt
<seb128> we can mention it again at meeting time as well
<nessita> hello everybody! If you can/want to invest some minutes, I would appreciate some endorsement for my per package upload application: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NataliaBidart/PerPackageUploadApplication
<nessita> and I will also welcome any suggestion/improvement that you consider necessary
<seb128> ok, I'm out for half an hour or so, will be back for the meeting time for sure ;-)
<didrocks> hey cyphermox
<didrocks> cyphermox: seems I can't activate the bluetooth anymore
<cyphermox> hey didrocks
<didrocks> are you aware about such issues?
<cyphermox> how's it look?
<cyphermox> there's tons of issues with bluetooth ;_;
<didrocks> like, the menu just shows "bluetooth active/disable settings"
<didrocks> not the long menu like before
<cyphermox> didrocks: are you using a usb bluetooth dongle or integrated?
<didrocks> and if I start gnome-control-center
<didrocks> cyphermox: it's integrated
<cyphermox> didrocks: problem would be that bluetoothd isn't running for you
<didrocks> I can't enabled it
<didrocks> ah
<didrocks> should I launch it?
<cyphermox> you can, and it's going to solve the issue for you
<cyphermox> I'm still working on figuring out why the hell it won't start on boot like it was so clearly working so well before
<pitti> good night everyone! need to run now
<didrocks> have a good night pitti
<didrocks> cyphermox: hum, it exits immediatly
<cyphermox> it does?
<didrocks> there is no verbose mode
<didrocks> yeah
<cyphermox> no, it daemonizes
<didrocks> exit 0!
<cyphermox> ps -ef | grep bluetoothd
<cyphermox> ?
<didrocks> cyphermox: nothing
<cyphermox> f you want to start it with verbose, use  /usr/sbin/bluetoothd -d -n
<didrocks> cyphermox: oh, I got it
<didrocks> disabling it in the indicator
<didrocks> and enabling it again
<didrocks> and now, I have a daemon
<cyphermox> why was it not starting? any idea?
<didrocks> reallly not :/
<cyphermox> the indicator can't do anything if the daemon isn't there :/
<didrocks> seems it thinked it was already there
<cyphermox> ok
<didrocks> cyphermox: there is three items in the indicator, isn't it?
<didrocks> enable
<didrocks> disable
<didrocks> settings
<didrocks> enable was already "on"
<didrocks> not sure what I can provide you as debug info next time
<seb128> the indicator is buggy though, don't trust it, trust rather the control center
<didrocks> seb128: well, control center didn't let me enabling it
<seb128> like the indicator indicates "bluetooth: on" on the 10v which has no bluetooth hardware
<didrocks> it told just it's dsabled
<cyphermox> didrocks: there should be more like 7-8 items in the indicator really
<didrocks> cyphermox: now there is more
<didrocks> but before, when it wasn't working, just those 3
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> can't know what bluetooth you have until the daemon is running
<cyphermox> brb, upstart debugging
<seb128> re
<seb128> sorry took a bit longer that I though (roads are busy at 5pm!)
<seb128> didrocks, chrisccoulson, mterry, kenvandine, cyphermox, tkamppeter: it's meeting time
<kenvandine> hey
<seb128> if you have anything to discuss
<kenvandine> not really... posted on the wiki :)
<didrocks> hey
<seb128> or any announcement
<didrocks> nothing here
<seb128> nessita, ^ ;-)
<mterry> Heyo
<nessita> I have a request, is possible
<nessita> if*
<nessita> If anyone of you can/want to invest some minutes, I would appreciate some endorsement for my per package upload application: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NataliaBidart/PerPackageUploadApplication
<kenvandine> nessita, awesome, sure!
<nessita> kenvandine: thanks! :-D
<seb128> ok, nothing special to discuss, no meeting ;-)
<seb128> thanks everybody
<nessita> thank you!
<mterry> :)
<asac_> tedg: what do you think about: http://paste.ubuntu.com/815578/ ... its about allowing to preventing set up guessing magic based on seen_db_seen
 * asac_ off on a call
<desrt> seb128: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2012-January/msg00029.html
<desrt> (nb: this list is "read only" for non-release-team members, iirc)
<seb128> desrt, thanks ;-)
<desrt> seb128: we're not *actively* trying to piss you guys off :)
<cawel> Can I ask here a bug I am having with Ubuntu 11.10 regarding wireless ?
<jp_wanN> cawel: you should go to ubuntu- [Your language code] chatroom, ubuntu-de e.g.
<cawel> jp_wanN: thanks, will do.
<jp_wanN> cawel: no problem ;)
<cawel> seems like #ubuntu-en is invite-only :(
<desrt> #ubuntu-en redirects to #ubuntu
<desrt> some irc clients have trouble with redirects
<desrt> so you can just join #ubuntu
<kenvandine> didrocks, mind if i drop the source format for unity-2d to 1.0?
<kenvandine> i need to do a rebuild for libindicator abi bump
<didrocks> kenvandine: pitti's version already dropped it, isnt it?
<kenvandine> oh... maybe not in bzr?
 * kenvandine checks branches
<didrocks> kenvandine: no, it's not in bzr
<didrocks> kenvandine: don't use the bzr branch for unity-2d as it's in source
<kenvandine> okie dokie
<BigWhale> Python XDG has no calls for retrieving default folders? :(
<kenvandine> yes it does
<kenvandine> it is just a little odd :)
<kenvandine> BigWhale, look in gwibber for an example
<asac_> tedg: http://people.linaro.org/~asac/tmp/desktop-webmail-indicator.png ... thats what I mean with manual :)
<kenvandine> BigWhale, gwibber/microblog/util/const.py
 * kenvandine goes to lunch while pbuilder thrashes :)
<BigWhale> kenvandine, oh... no those I found. I need ~/Videos and ~/Documents :)
<tedg> asac_, I'm game on the feature, I'm just curious how one would set it then.
<tedg> asac_, Do you mean by using a new desktop file?
<dobey> anyone using synergy on precise?
<asac_> tedg: yes... my desktop-webmail.desktop looks like this:
<asac_> X-Ayatana-Indicator-Setup-Type=Manual
<asac_> in [Desktop Entry]
<tedg> asac_, I was expecting another line or two... did you get cut off?
<asac_> tedg: 20:50 < asac_> tedg: yes... my desktop-webmail.desktop looks like this:
<asac_> 20:51 < asac_> X-Ayatana-Indicator-Setup-Type=Manual
<asac_> 20:51 < asac_> in [Desktop Entry]
<asac_> tedg: thats the complete one: http://paste.ubuntu.com/815725/
<tedg> asac_, So then how do you mark it setup?  Or wait, you're just setting it so that it NEVER has the setup?
<asac_> tedg: right :)
<asac_> tedg: well. manual means: app is always correct or does it itself
<asac_> or something
<asac_> X-Ayatana-Indicator-Setup-Type=Manual -> manual mode avoids any heuristic and displays the shortcut group right away
<jbicha> seb128: I posted the debdiff for librsvg at bug 920796
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 920796 in librsvg "gcompris FTBFS: 'RsvgSizeFunc' is deprecated [-Werror=deprecated-declarations]" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/920796
<seb128> jbicha, thanks
<kenvandine> grrr
<kenvandine> seb128, unity is the last FTBFS i have with the rebuild for libindicator
<kenvandine> it is failing because of deprecations
<kenvandine> how can i make cmake not eat the CXXFLAGS?
<seb128> kenvandine, can't you just drop -Werror from the CMakeList?
<kenvandine> i could probably do that... but i would rather work around it in the rules file
<seb128> good luck then
<kenvandine> i'll do that for now...
<seb128> I just patched the CMakeList when I did an upload for unity
<kenvandine> this libindicator abi break has been a pita!
<kenvandine> a bunch of FTBFS for deprecations
<kenvandine> we need to get those fixed
 * kenvandine will yell at tedg about that :)
<seb128> kenvandine, before uploading make sure you don't break stuff like the hud ppa by jumping versions ahead, or coordinate with ted,gord,didrocks
<kenvandine> i can bump the hud version
<seb128> kenvandine, if tedg was doing review and rolling tarballs yeah, we are mid-cycle and we didn't get any indicator update yet
<tedg> kenvandine, Uhg, I forgot about the GTK3 deprecations.
<kenvandine> tedg, don't worry, i'll be getting you a list of the failures :)
<kenvandine> libappindicator fails too with the python bindings
<kenvandine> i have a branch to fix that
<tedg> Oh, didn't expect that one.
<tedg> Can we drop those?
<tedg> Or do we need them for the GTK2 case?
<kenvandine> i say leave them for now
<kenvandine> for gtk2
<seb128> kenvandine, is there any good fixes coming in the indicators at least? ;-)
<kenvandine> nope
<seb128> :-(
<kenvandine> indicator-appmenu with the hud service
<kenvandine> but first just a rebuild for libindicator
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey, there?
<rodrigo_> seb128, for a minute, but yes, what's up?
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey
<rodrigo_> seb128, how are you?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I'm good thanks, how are you?
<seb128> rodrigo_, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu/revision/230
 * rodrigo_ looks
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you remember why you did the ca_gtk_play_for_widget() change in 16_use_synchronous_notifications.patch
<seb128> using "manager->priv->dialog" rather than "window" break again the sound playing in the notifications
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, iirc it's happened several times
<seb128> I was wondering if you did it for a reason
<rodrigo_> on that patch, window is set at the beginning of the function, iirc
<rodrigo_> so was just a mistake, just making it apply
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, great, that's what I though but I wanted to check
<seb128> I reverted that line and that makes the sound work again
<rodrigo_> I think it should be 'ca_gtk_play_for_widget (window,
<seb128> but I wanted to check if you did it for a reason
<seb128> rodrigo_, right, that's what I did
<rodrigo_> yeah, it's the 2nd or 3rd time that comes up, sorry :)
<chrisccoulson> hi rodrigo_
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<rodrigo_> hi chrisccoulson
<seb128> rodrigo_, the code is http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/815857/
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, I'm fine, and you?
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, yeah, i'm not too bad thanks :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, that's it
<seb128> rodrigo_, when you have time another day I need to ping you about the region capplet stuff
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you still plan to land that upstream this cycle?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, please do whenever you want
<chrisccoulson> hah, oh, i recognise that hacky bit of code there ;)
<rodrigo_> I plan to, just a bit busy on the new job, but please ping me whenever you want to discuss it, and I'll try to finish it asap
<seb128> chrisccoulson, that's the bug I was about to ping you about when you started ignoring me :p
<rodrigo_> :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, thanks
<RAOF> Morning chrisccoulson!
<rodrigo_> seb128, when's the gnome freeze?
<chrisccoulson> hi RAOF
<seb128> rodrigo_, I didn't want to stop you on IRC late, thanks for the reply
<rodrigo_> seb128, you were lucky, just came for a minute to check mail :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, let me check, in a month or so
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, I'll try to work on it some this weekend
<jbicha> rodrigo_: wiki says 20 Feb
<rodrigo_> ok
 * rodrigo_ adds it to his calendar
<seb128> rodrigo_, feb 20.
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<seb128> jbicha, btw the webkit s-c issue has a patch on https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76911
<ubot2`> bugs.webkit.org bug 76911 in WebKit Gtk "[GTK] WebKitWebView won't work in a GtkOffscreenWindow" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> jbicha, if you want to update the ppa feel free, if that works fine we might be able to upload to precise this week
<seb128> jbicha, I will add it on my list in any case, I'm just mentioning it in case you want to beat me to it ;-)
<desrt> seb128: so some good news
<desrt> seb128: gee issue is fixed now
<desrt> although the patch to vala causes a regression in folks now
<seb128> desrt, in libgee git? 0.6 serie as well?
<desrt> seb128: well, it was a vala patch
<jbicha> seb128: ok, I'm uploading the patched webkit now
<desrt> so gee needs to do a new release that was built using the new vala
<seb128> ok
<seb128> desrt, is there any sign of a vala release? ;-)
<desrt> seb128: the folks regression is a bug in folks itself
<desrt> uncovered by the new gobject strictness stuff plus the new way the vala compiler deals with property overrides
<desrt> they plan to fix it up in folks
<desrt> i think we'll see a vala release quite soon
<desrt> juergbi has been running around in the forrest lately
<desrt> which is why we didn't have one already
<seb128> jbicha, thanks
<desrt> i think you'll probably see one in the following days
<seb128> desrt, ok
<seb128> desrt, I'm not in an hurry, I did distroworkaround glib
<desrt> seb128: understood
<seb128> but good to know it's being properly fixed upstream still ;-)
<desrt> seb128: i think that workaround will not save you from the folks regression
<seb128> desrt, right
<seb128> the workaround was to unblock the dx guys
<seb128> not to "fix" anything which was buggy
<desrt> so what's the deal with gee versions?
 * desrt is terminally confused
<seb128> what about those?
<seb128> we are on 0.6
<desrt> 0.6 is 1.0 and 0.8 is 0.8 or something?
<seb128> seems GNOME was unsure if this cycle is going to see a 0.8 or stay on 0.6
<seb128> desrt, oh, dunno, I assumed that 0.6 is current stable and 0.7 current unstable
<seb128> not sure if they have a schedule for 0.8
<desrt> there's some additional complication, i understand
<desrt> i'm sure we'll see what happens
<seb128> right
<desrt> in any case, i think there was a new gee release made
<desrt> and it was built using my patch to vala before the fixes were actually applied to vala git itself
<seb128> oh, good to know
<seb128> desrt, they rolled a tarball for each serie
<desrt> it was a 0.7 though
<seb128> 0.6 and 0.7
<desrt> oh.  that's good
<desrt> let me see if it was built with the new vala
<desrt> yes.  it was.
<desrt> if you package that, the warnings should go away
<desrt> 0.6.4, i mean
<seb128> desrt, excellent, thanks
<desrt> would have been nice if he included some note about that in the news :p
<seb128> kenvandine, ^ want to do the update some day when you are out of libindicat* transitions? ;-)
<seb128> desrt, indeed
<czajkowski> evening, running Precise and just ran an upgrade and got an unusal message http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/815871/  anyone see similar today ?
<seb128> hey czajkowski
<desrt> seb128: the test, btw, is to look at abstractset.c
<desrt> and see how the "read-only-view" property is setup
<desrt> if it uses g_object_class_override_property -> bad
<czajkowski> seb128: evening
<desrt> g_object_class_install_property -> good
<seb128> desrt, ok, thanks
<seb128> czajkowski, it seems minor, dunno if that happened on my box though, I use update-manager and don't watch stdout
<seb128> czajkowski, try asking mvo tomorrow
<czajkowski> seb128: grand will do, I have to watch the output like to see what yer doing :)
<czajkowski> seb128: what tz is mvo on ?
<seb128> czajkowski, european
<seb128> gmt+1
<seb128> 'night
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-01-25
<kscloud> Hey, can someone clue me in as to whether there is a debug command line option for USC? I'm getting a segmentation fault.
<jbicha> kscloud: are you using the ubuntu-desktop ppa?
<kscloud> I think so.
<jbicha> that's a known bug with webkit 1.7.4; perhaps it will be fixed when the next webkit build happens in a few hours
<kscloud> Oh, okay, I was worried it might be something much worse.
<TheMuso> jbicha: Is there an ubuntu-desktop branch for gnome-shell for oneiric?
<TheMuso> jbicha: I thought you would use that instead if there was one.
<TheMuso> Hrm seems not, at least according to the packaging metadata.
<jbicha> TheMuso: no I don't have a published branch for oneiric but I do have one now for oneiric
<TheMuso> jbicha: Np, anyway please see my review comments, I think you forgot the SRU paperwork...
<micahg> jbicha: I was going to ask why there's an ubuntu-desktop branch for gnome-shell, it's not in main, nor maintained by the desktop team
<jbicha> micahg: because it's part of desktop-extras and a packaging-only branch makes things a lot easier
<jbicha> if there's a better place for me to keep it, I can do it...
<micahg> jbicha: desktop-extras packages shouldn't be in ubuntu-desktop IMHO, it's bikeshedding and kinda defeats the purpose of having a separate packageset that others can apply for
<jbicha> but where should I put it? should I create a separate desktop-extras team?
<micahg> hmm..we should already have a team, give me a minute
<jbicha> there is a gnome3 team...
<micahg> hmm, I have to look into this, it seems we're missing the desktop-extras team
<micahg> jbicha: even that isn't necessarily a good solution as it's still bikeshedding (MOTU and ubuntu-mozilla-uploaders wouldn't be able to commit)
<jbicha> why doesn't motu have branches? and would adding motu to a potential desktop-extras team be bad?
<stgraber> I'd strongly recommend using the UDD branches as that way LP uses the same way to check for upload rights
<jbicha> how do those branches work? uploading automatically updates the UDD branch but what if it was already updated?
<jbicha> and I had this annoying problem: https://answers.launchpad.net/bzr-builddeb/+question/171856
<stgraber> you can push changes to these branches, the changes get imported into the branch only if there isn't a tag matching the current upload with an identical content
<stgraber> ah yeah, quilt can be a bit annoying, I seem to remember someone blogging about how to deal with that though
<jbicha> ok, I'll try that; packaging-only branches are so nice though :)
<stgraber> jbicha: you may also be interested in bzr's lightweight checkouts to avoid pulling the whole upstream history
<TheMuso> THe Ubuntu desktop team uses packaging only branches, so if GNOME shell is not maintained by us, then I guess packaging branches are fine.
<TheMuso> UDD branches that is.
<stgraber> TheMuso: yeah, we're talking about what's part of desktop-extras so the new package set where non ubuntu desktop team members can be part of
<micahg> jbicha: I thought about possibly adding MOTU as well, but IIRC, we refused to define the packageset by component, so I'm reluctant to add MOTU
<stgraber> TheMuso: it seems wrong to say "we have the new shiny package set to make it easier for people who want to help with gnome components" but at the same time say that you need to save your changes in the ~ubuntu-desktop branches which these new contributors won't have access to :)
<TheMuso> Yup this is true.
<jbicha> stgraber: my main problem isn't the lightweight checkout issue (although that's annoying) but merging new versions is more painful & the packaging branches encourage/force using quilt patches
<micahg> umm, shouldn't you be using quilt patches regardless?
<TheMuso> There was the mess of the .pc directory, but afaik thats fixed.
<micahg> jbicha: also, why did you break out the -common package in the SRU, that's not normally done
<micahg> ah, I see why now in the bug, but still, IANA SRU team member, but sounds like something that won't fly
<jbicha> micahg: I thought it was worth a try and it makes the breaks/replaces a bit easier
<micahg> why do we need the breaks/replaces at all?  we shouldn't be pulling in new packaging changes in an SRU unless they're needed for the new version itself
<micahg> oh, for precise, meh, that's the price of SRUing I guess...safer to have the diff than break the stable release IMHO
<micahg> but I encourage you to speak to an SRU team member about it
<RAOF> This SRU team member would be skeptical of breaking out a -common package in an SRU; what's the bug?
<jbicha> bug 921343
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 921343 in gnome-shell "[SRU] Update gnome-shell to 3.2.2.1 on Oneiric" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921343
<micahg> https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/ubuntu/oneiric/gnome-shell/oneiric-3.2.2.1/+merge/89781
<RAOF> Hm.  That looks like it might be the least-bad solution.
<TheMuso> Thats what I thought...
<RAOF> jbicha: It looks like that package merge won't work properly, though.  Have you actually added all the relevant files to bzr?  Particularly I don't see how gnome-shell-common isn't an empty package, and I don't see the referenced patches.
<TheMuso> whoops
 * micahg would think a control.in file with the breaks/replaces version set based on distro would be least-bad
<jbicha> RAOF: pushed revision 48 with the missing files
<jbicha> micahg: hmm?
<micahg> Debian breaks/replaces on their version, ubuntu breaks/replaces on upstream-0.1~ (so if we're importing/merging from Debian, we're covered)
<TheMuso> If everybody is happy, I'm happy to upload...
 * micahg defers to RAOF
<RAOF> I'm not a fan of control.in magic; I'm ok with the -common split.
<TheMuso> Ok, will upload then.
<TheMuso> jbicha: Thanks for the paperwork.
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> kenvandine: I used a MP for unity-2d, I cannot commit to the branch
<pitti> kenvandine: you can work off lp:~pitti/unity-2d/fix-gsettings-migration if you want, that's the current archive version
<pitti> desrt: wow, got accepted as a foundation member -- that was fast
<BigWhale> Good morning.
<pitti> hey BigWhale
<BigWhale> surprisingly it is not dark outside ... only ~60 days until spring.
<pitti> still pitch black here
<BigWhale> not so much here ...
<BigWhale> pitti, where are you from?
<pitti> BigWhale: Augsburg, south Germany
<BigWhale> not that far away
<pitti> where are you?
<BigWhale> Slovenia
<pitti> right, sounds like you should be 30 or 45 minutes closer to the sun :)
<pitti> shoudl be a similar longitude like Prague
<BigWhale> I'm around 46.4N, 15.56E :>
<BigWhale> Wolfram alpha really gives quick and useful answers sometimes. :)
<pitti> right, 10Â° 54' E
<pitti> so, should be a delta of 20 minutes
<pitti> BigWhale: heh, looked in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augsburg :)
<BigWhale> I actually googled and google's first result was wolfram alpha.
<BigWhale> Ok, I have to get ready... today is office time... which means no slacking off writing some silly open source code. :>
<RAOF> Man, a 20 hour PPA queue? :(
<BigWhale> RAOF, same thing happened to me last time ... yeah. Everyone is building something. :/
<rickspencer3> good morning all
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
 * bryce waves
<didrocks> good mornng
<didrocks> morning*
<rickspencer3> good morning didrocks
<rickspencer3> good evening bryce
<rickspencer3> bryce, brilliant move with the xorg-xserver package copy thing
<RAOF> Good evening/morning all ;)
<didrocks> bonjour rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> RAOF, you too!
<pitti> hey didrocks
<rickspencer3> way to maintain momentum for everyone
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti
<bryce> rickspencer3, heya, yep it worked quite well.  Can't take credit for it though.
<rickspencer3> pitti, jasoncwarner_, Sweetshark, I hate to be a downer, but I noticed the same few packages here the last few days:
<rickspencer3> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/precise_probs.html
<rickspencer3> all armel :/
<bryce> koffice?  anyone still use that?
<rickspencer3> oops, not all armel, just LO
<pitti> rickspencer3: LibO armhf is in progress (arm team is workign on this)
<pitti> rickspencer3: calligra is the new koffice, kubuntu team said they are on it
<rickspencer3> pitti, ok
<rickspencer3> A2 is next week, so it would be could for Kubuntu and ARM if they had these resolved soon, I think ;)
<pitti> calligra looks odd
<pitti> calligra-libs conflicts with koffice-libs, but of koffice depends on koffice-libs
<pitti> rickspencer3: I haven't really looked into it
<rickspencer3> pitti, I normally wouldn't have said anything, but it seems to have been dangling for some days
<rickspencer3> I've gotten used to issues being resolved within hours ;)
<rickspencer3> my expectations are now completely out of control
<rickspencer3> :)
<rickspencer3> hey didrocks, out of curiosity, are we going to get any new Unity features between now and Alpha 2?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: no, this week was planned to get a compiz release only
<didrocks> rickspencer3: but there are some issues around it
<pitti> RAOF: thanks for fixing -173!
<pitti> didrocks: no HUD next week? :-)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: next Monday, freeze of unity trunk
 * pitti just read sabdfl's blog post
<didrocks> and so, hopefully, release on thursday
<didrocks> just post alpha2 release :)
<seb128> hey
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, ca va ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi?
<seb128> ca va bien ;-)
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke!
<seb128> pitti, you are on amd64 right? could you try if the webkit update in the ppa fixes s-c segfaulting on start?
<pitti> seb128: u-desktop PPA?
<seb128> pitti, ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ppa
<pitti> on current precise, s-c starts up
<pitti> installing PPA now
<seb128> pitti, it was segfaulting with 1.7.4, we backported a fix in the current ppa version
<seb128> that was basically the blocker bug for upload to the archive
<pitti> seb128: dist-upgraded, got new webkit 1.7.4-0ubuntu1~build5
<pitti> s-c starts up fine
<pitti> anything particualr I should try in s-c?
<seb128> pitti, no, the patch was supposed to fix the issue so that's confirming, thanks ;-)
<pitti> the comboboxes in the top bar (All apps, Installed) have a broken menu
<pitti> well, they have a pitch black background
<pitti> but that seems unrelated
<pitti> mvo: http://imagebin.org/195416 -> known? want a bug for this?
<mvo> pitti: not known, thanks!
<pitti> mvo: I'll file a bug then?
<mvo> pitti: but it looks like its a side-effect of something else, its fine in oneiric
<mvo> pitti: yes, please do
<pitti> mvo: I just installed webkit from the desktop PPA; is it remotely possible that this is due to webkit? or is that a normal GTK widget?
<mvo> pitti: its a normal widget, I have it here as well in my box with the normal webkit
<pitti> ack, filing
<mvo> pitti: is webkit fixed? it used to crash when used in a offscreen window
<pitti> mvo: starts fine for me now
<pitti> filed bug 921477
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 921477 in software-center "drop down menus from app toolbar have black background" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921477
<seb128> mvo, we backported the upstream patch to not use buggy calls on offscreen widgets
<mvo> seb128: \o/
<czajkowski> mvo: morning I was wondering if you knwo why I'd see this message on an upgrade on precise http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/815871/
<rix1234> Hi all...What script is called when a user logouts from a session? I am using Ubuntu 10.10
<pitti> rix1234: no script in particular; gnome-session signals all programs that it's going to shutdown, and then closes the session
<rix1234> pitti, i am using multiseat on ubuntu 10.10. The problem is when user logouts, he doesnt get the login screen again...can u please help...
<pitti> rix1234: what do you mean by "multiseat"?
<mvo> czajkowski: thanks! I have a look
<czajkowski> mvo: cheers I dont mind logging the bug, just not sure against what
<mvo> czajkowski: probably app-install-data-ubuntu - it would be nice if you could include the two files as a attachment there too
<seb128> -rw-r----- 1 syslog adm  313M janv. 25 11:39 /var/log/kern.log
<mvo> czajkowski: what is odd is that I don't get the error myself, do you use a different locale maybe? I wonder if its that
<seb128> hum is that normal?
<mvo> seb128: impressive
<seb128> shouldn't that log be rotated or something?
<pitti> seb128: it shuold
<pitti> -rw-r----- 1 syslog adm 1457226 Jan 22 10:24 /var/log/kern.log.1
<pitti> -rw-r----- 1 syslog adm 670292 Jan 25 09:33 /var/log/kern.log
<mvo> seb128: mine is much smaller and its rotated for me
<pitti> seb128: is it really just from today?
<pitti> seb128: check the first line in kern.log, it has a timestamp
<seb128> it starts with
<seb128> Jan 22 12:32:32 localhost kernel: [ 4271.719955] cfg80211: All devices are disconnected, going to restore regulatory settings
<pitti> that seems fine, rotation-wise
<seb128> ok, kernel is really verbose then
<pitti> so apparently something got very talkative today?
<seb128> I will drop that from the logviewer ui
<seb128> the gtk widget doesn't like loading some hundred mbs text
<czajkowski> mvo: I dont get it this morning either I use GB locale?
<pitti> seb128: mine is 670 kB, which is not exactly small, but certainly far away from 300 MB
<pitti> do you see a lot of repetition there?
<seb128> Jan 25 10:57:26 localhost kernel: [ 3201.475561] Valid eCryptfs headers not foun
<seb128> d in file header region or xattr region
<seb128> Jan 25 10:57:26 localhost kernel: [ 3201.475564] Either the lower file is not in
<seb128>  a valid eCryptfs format, or the key could not be retrieved. Plaintext passthrou
<seb128> gh mode is not enabled; returning -EIO
<seb128> pitti, it's filed from those it seems
<pitti> yeah, I get the ecryptfs stuff, too, all the time
<mvo> czajkowski: thanks! so if you run "sudo update-software-center" it does not show this message anymore?
<seb128> pitti, it's maybe proportional to the disk use and I used the disk a lot compared to you?
<pitti> maybe
<czajkowski> mvo: checking now
<czajkowski> mvo: there it is again but says it was updated http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/816297/
<mvo> czajkowski: thanks, could you pastebin the file please? pastebin '/usr/share/app-install/desktop/rar.desktop'
<czajkowski> mvo: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/816298/
<mvo> czajkowski: odd, that looks correct
<czajkowski> it was never going to be simple was it :)
<mvo> oh, excellent, I can reproduce it now
<czajkowski> oh good!
<czajkowski> I dont feel like such an utter tool!
<czajkowski> always helpful when nautilus crashes for no reason and you try and fill in the summary box and have no idea what you've done to make it crash
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/909143
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 909143 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with signal 7 in g_simple_async_result_complete()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<czajkowski> at least it filled it in
<seb128> czajkowski, did you try to open a file which has no handler?
<czajkowski> I tried to play a movie file which told me it dint have the files it needed to watch which it did yesterday
<seb128> czajkowski, ok thanks
<jml> hello all
<jml> I'm trying to get a functional Ubuntu VM on my iMac. It's going well so far, but I can't seem to convince Ubuntu to run at the full 2560x1440 resolution
<jml> even after installing guest additions (which get me from max 1024x768 to 1600x1200)
<jml> http://askubuntu.com/questions/98393/how-do-i-get-2560x1440-resolution-within-virtualbox-on-a-mac (for those who'd prefer points)
<jml> ok. I feel stupid. switching to full screen did the trick. I thought I had tried that.
<nessita> mvo: hi there! wanted to check if this is a known issue in softwarecenter: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/816405/
<mvo> nessita: thanks for the notification! I fixed it this morning
<nessita> mvo: awesome :-)
<seb128> mvo, hey
<mvo> hey seb128
<nessita> that's the advantage of being in that time zone! you do stuff before the rest :-P
<nessita> hola seb128
<seb128> mvo, can you try the updated webkit from the ppa with s-c and give you thumb up or down for precise upload?
<seb128> nessita, hey, how are you?
<nessita> great, thanks
<mvo> seb128: if it works for you and pitti that is good enough for me
<nessita> a little puzzled by gtk3, but good
<mvo> just "a little" ? ;)
<seb128> mvo, ok, you got asked before upload, if there are other issues I deny responsability :p
<pitti> upload! upload!
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> (better than on a Friday)
<pitti> seb128: gnome-terminal and apt-get work fine, what more do you need *duck*
<seb128> yeah, I'm a strong believer of the no fridays upload rule
<seb128> pitti, who use apt-get when you got dselect? ;-)
 * seb128 hides from mvo
<jbicha> seb128: new webkit works here
<seb128> jbicha, thanks
 * pitti uses ar p foo.deb data.tar.gz | sudo tar -C / -x
<pitti> is that not how it's supposed to work?
<jbicha> I prefer Saturday updates myself ;)
<pitti> hey jbicha
<pitti> jbicha: I followed up to the Debian bug about freerdp and committed two small fixes, FYI
<mvo> pitti: I'm about to fix that, new apt is >< close
<seb128> pitti, jbicha: is somebody working on getting freerdp 1.0 in?
<pitti> mvo: how can that break ar and tar? :-)
<pitti> seb128: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/freerdp.git
<seb128> pitti, excellent, thanks ;-)
<pitti> whoops, pushed my other commit
<mvo> pitti: heh :)
<seb128> pitti, I had it on my list of "try to look at it if it turns out nobody has interest in it"
<seb128> but I'm glad I don't have to do it :p
<pitti> jbicha: meh, so they didn't bump the soname for the final release?
<pitti> that's the only thing that holds it back AFAICS
<jbicha> pitti: nope, I opened this for it: https://github.com/FreeRDP/FreeRDP/issues/366
<pitti> seb128, jbicha: we just have one rdepends, so if needs be, we could deal with it
<seb128> yeah, one rdepends seems like an easy breaks use
<pitti> I wonder if there is a new version of remmina-plugin-rdp which works with 1.0
<jbicha> pitti: perhaps http://sourceforge.net/projects/remmina/files/0.9/
<jbicha> oh, nm, it's 2012 not 2011
<pitti> it's a year old
<pitti> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=3440035&group_id=278330&atid=1181674
<pitti> http://ftbeowulf.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/uds-free-rdp-and-remina/
<pitti> so, seems it's underway, but not there yet
<ubot2`> pitti: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Sourceforge instance at 0xa5a310c> bug 3440035 not found
<jbicha> I guess we'd need a git snapshot or bug them to make a release https://github.com/FreeRDP/Remmina
<pitti> ah, if git head works, that sounds doable
<pitti> but now that 1.0 is out, I guess they want to roll a release
<seb128> pitti, speaking of remmina or freedrp with the "roll a release"?
<pitti> remmina
<seb128> pitti, check your email
<seb128> pitti, sorry I though you were Cced on that discussion
<seb128> pitti, I fwd you an email about remmina and rdp 1.0
<pitti> ah, sweet
<seb128> pitti, the remmina guys basically work on a schedule to match the precise release, they should have their 1.0 on time for the lts
<seb128> but it's not there yet
<pitti> jbicha: so I guess we could add a Breaks: remmina-plugin-rdp (<< 1.0) to libfreerdp0?
<seb128> pitti, feel free to reply to the email, there was only one reply so far from robert_ancell to say that we want the new reminna but we just need to make sure it matches our quality standards and is there on time
<pitti> then this could get to experimental, and through MIR again
<dobey> davidcalle: ping. you volunteered to make music lens work with rhythmbox at UDS. any news on that?
<debfx> Kaleo: the qt patch kubuntu_92_qml_memory_leak.diff (bug #723956) causes crashes in qtcreator and bug #831663 has a similar backtrace
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 723956 in unity-2d "[dash] memory usage increases slowly - memory leak?" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723956
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 831663 in unity-2d "unity-2d-places crashed with SIGSEGV in QMetaObject::metacall()" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831663
<davidcalle> dobey, working on it. I have a working python one, I'm porting it to Vala with the help of mhr3.
<debfx> Kaleo: since upstream has rejected it and warned about crashes I'm inclined to drop it
<mhr3> davidcalle, where my "help" consists of saying "please port it to vala"? :D
<dobey> davidcalle: cool. where is the code?
<davidcalle> mhr3, wait until tomorrow ;)
<davidcalle> dobey, python or vala?
<dobey> davidcalle: yes :)
<davidcalle> dobey, yes to python?
<dobey> davidcalle: both
<davidcalle> dobey, ok, let me push the python to Launchpad. The Vala is not ready, except if you just want a bin you can use to display your Rhythmbox library in a terminal ;)
<DBO> is nvidia-current-updates no longer a valid thing in Prancing Pony?
<dobey> davidcalle: code is code. even if it's not finished you should be pushing commits to launchpad when you make changes
<Sarvatt> DBO: it just got missed in the transition, tseliot just uploaded the update
<davidcalle> dobey, right.
<DBO> Sarvatt, is there a practical difference right now?
<Sarvatt> no, there only is after a release
 * tseliot nods
<DBO> super duper
 * DBO switches
<DBO> oh did the iommu thing get fixed?
<Sarvatt> yep 3.2.0-10 afaik
<DBO> sweet
<davidcalle> dobey, https://code.launchpad.net/~davidc3/+junk/rhythmbox-precise/
<Kaleo> debfx: please drop it :)
<Kaleo> debfx: it's a shit patch
 * ogra_ looks for his nose-clamp
<mandel> guys, we are implementing proxy support for ubuntuone and we wanted to store the creds for auth proxies. We have though about using the keyring, this is the right things to do, isn't it?
<mdeslaur> mandel: aren't you simply using the system proxy settings and credentials?
<mandel> mdeslaur, well, we use the system proxy settings, that is true, but where do we get the credentials for a proxy that requires auth
<mandel> ??
<mdeslaur> mandel: when someone configures the system proxy, they typically configure it as username:password@host
<mdeslaur> mandel: there's an upstream bug to make it better though: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=646354
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 646354 in Network "Network proxy has no proxy authorization" [Normal,New]
<kenvandine> didrocks, unity and indicator-appmenu needs a rebuild in the unity-team-hud ppa, want me to do an upload?  or do you have packaging branches for those somewhere?
<didrocks> kenvandine: I can push a packaging branch to you
<kenvandine> cool
<didrocks> as there are cherry-pick
<mandel> mdeslaur, uh, that is a little ugly but I'm sure we can work with that :)
<kenvandine> do you have indicator-appmenu too?
<mdeslaur> mandel: I agree it's pretty ugly, but I guess you should be consistent will all the other desktop apps that use the proxy setting
<mandel> mdeslaur, well, we certainly prefer to be consistent then
<didrocks> kenvandine: no, just apt-get source for this one
<kenvandine> ok
<didrocks> kenvandine: lp:~ubuntu-desktop/unity/hud-ubuntu
<mdeslaur> that being said, I haven't personally used a proxy since 1996, so I'm not quite sure how the others handle it :P
<kenvandine> thx
<didrocks> yw :)
<kenvandine> didrocks, i had to add -Wno-error=deprecated-declarations in unity's CMakeLists.txt to get it to build
<kenvandine> in precise
<kenvandine> seems it's a pita to work around setting CXXFLAGS with cmake
<didrocks> kenvandine: yeah, there is a new deprecation for the last 2 days
<didrocks> kenvandine: seems my bot rejected some merges because of that :)
<alecu> mdeslaur, by "username:password@host" you surely mean in the http_proxy env var, and not in the gnome proxy settings nor gsettings.
<kenvandine> didrocks, is there a better way besides patching CMakeLists.txt?
<alecu> mandel, ^
<mandel> alecu, got you in a little alarm :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: removing -Werror from CXXFLAGS doesn't work? It used to last time I did
<kenvandine> nope
<mdeslaur> alecu: AFAIK, that's the way you set it in gnome also, no?
<kenvandine> it seemed to just ignore that
<didrocks> oh weird
<kenvandine> not in the rules file anyway :/
<kenvandine> seb128 told me last time he just patched it, so i went with it :)
<alecu> mdeslaur, gnome used to have a dialog to set the username and password; now it's gone, but the gsettings keys still remain.
<didrocks> kenvandine: can't really check right now, but I did something similar and it worked, anyway, thanks for the notice, it will surely be fixed with the release if people wants to get more branches in :)
<mdeslaur> alecu: upstream bug seems to indicate the preferred way is to enter username:password@host in the g-c-c dialog
<mdeslaur> alecu: are you saying g-c-c will split them out into separate gsettings keys?
<alecu> mdeslaur, no, I'm just saying that the gsettings keys are still there (though empty).
<mdeslaur> alecu: awesome
<mdeslaur> mandel: so, proxy support is b0rked on the desktop
<mdeslaur> mandel: so do as you wish
<kenvandine> yay... there is already a pending build for indicator-appmenu in the ppa :)
<alecu> "gsettings list-recursively org.gnome.system.proxy" shows both authentication-user and authentication-password
<mdeslaur> alecu: so I guess applications have to parse those keys, _and_ parse the user:pass@ syntax
<mdeslaur> awesome
<alecu> awesome indeed :-)
<mdeslaur> mandel: ^
<alecu> mandel, mdeslaur: still, if the user sets a proxy host/port without setting the credentials, the webclient library will find out that credentials are needed, and the app should prompt the user for those.
<alecu> mandel, mdeslaur: if the user then enter the credentials in the dialog provided by the app, they should be stored somewhere...
<alecu> either those gsetting keys or the keyring.
<alecu> since I'm not keen on storing credentials in plaintext on gsettings, the keyring makes much more sense.
<debfx> Kaleo: ok, will do
<alecu> I can see that chrome is storing credentials there (not sure if proxy creds too), so I wonder if there's a standard way to store proxy creds in the keyring. Or if we should propose some.
<mdeslaur> alecu: I'm not keen on storing separate proxy credentials for each app...is there a standard way to do it?
<Kaleo> debfx: thanks!
<alecu> mdeslaur, don't know yet. That's why we (mandel, me) are asking here :-)
<mdeslaur> alecu: oh, hehe, sorry
<alecu> mdeslaur, we'll probably continue by trying a few apps with a proxy requesting credentials and watching them store the credentials somewhere.
<alecu> mdeslaur, thanks for your input too. btw: can you paste the link to that upstream bug you mentioned?
<mdeslaur> alecu: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=646354
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 646354 in Network "Network proxy has no proxy authorization" [Normal,New]
<alecu> mdeslaur, thanks!
<mdeslaur> alecu: and stuff like this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/65828/how-can-i-configure-proxy-authentication
<alecu> I'll tell mandel about all this after the net-split. mdeslaur: thanks again.
<alecu> mandel, here's the backlog: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/816557/
<mandel> alecu, thx got it, stupid network :P
<dobey> alecu, mandel: aren't the proxy passwords stored in keyring now?
<mandel> dobey, AFAIK they are not, but I'm stupid :)
<seb128> re
<seb128> desrt, hey, got what I was saying?
<desrt> seb128: that you hate gnome? ;(
<seb128> desrt, no
<seb128>  desrt, is that a bug of yours? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/816567/ or saw it before?
<seb128> desrt, I get that in nautilus for a bit, I think it might be due to glib
<seb128> or "for a bit", "it started recently"
<desrt> looks unrelated to glib
<desrt> gapplication is in the backtrace, sure, but only in the same way that g_main_loop_run() would be...
<seb128> well the nautilus code is one call to "g_application_run()"
<desrt> ya.  that's generally how it should be done.
<dobey> alecu, mandel, mdeslaur: it appears that maybe gnome3 stuff doesn't support authenticated proxies yet :(
<seb128> desrt, well, so why does it hit an invalid read?
<mandel> dobey, cute!
<desrt> seb128: it hits the invalid read in GtkTimeline...
<mdeslaur> dobey: awesome++
<seb128> desrt, doh, I can't read today it seems
<desrt> seb128: :)
<seb128> desrt, sorry for the noise ;-)
<desrt> seb128: that's accessing the pirv structure of the timeline rather direcdtly
<desrt> seb128: so i'd guess it's either a use-after-free or someone passing a completely invalid thing to gtk_timeline_run_frame()
<desrt> hum.  that's internal to gtktimeline
<seb128> desrt, ok, I'm a bit puzzled by the valgrind log
<desrt> seb128: hum.  i think if you unref a timeline while it is running then it is likely to cause what you see here
<seb128> desrt, I'm surprised that there is no nautilus code lines before the gtktimeline one
<desrt> seb128: it's because it's a mainloop dispatch
<desrt> gtk_timeline_start() sets up a timeout to call the frame update function
<desrt> which is what you're seeing called
<desrt> meanwhile, the timeline has clearly stopped existing in the meantime
<desrt> it looks to me like someone in unref() the timeline while it is running
<desrt> *is
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<desrt> it's not entirely clear if that should be valid or not...
<seb128> now if only valgrind was not spammed by libpixman errors that would help to get an useful log
<seb128> ==18574== Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised value(s)
<seb128> ==18574==    at 0x5223A10: sse2_combine_over_u (pixman-sse2.c:620)
<seb128> ==18574==    by 0x5210068: delegate_combine_32 (pixman-implementation.c:174)
<seb128> ==18574==    by 0xE989257: ???
<desrt> supressions, dude :)
<desrt> actually, i'm not so sure anymore
<seb128> desrt, I need to learn how to do that ;-)
<desrt> it looks like the source gets destroyed on finalize
<gord> seb128, hey, so it turns out totem is sending out an <alt> key-press every 30 seconds to inhibit the screensaver - obviously messes with HUD. sound like something we can distro patch out?
<desrt> is it always the same place?
<desrt> like, always sse2_combine_over_u ?
<seb128> gord, we probably can yes
<seb128> desrt, yes
<gord> seb128, cool, i'll get a patch going
<desrt> seb128: so you need a supression like
<desrt> {
<desrt>   pixman stupid problem
<dobey> desrt: hey. you might know this. is there really no way to handle authenticated proxies in the new gio/gsettings proxy related stuff, and every app has to handle it manually themselves?
<desrt>   Memcheck:Value4
<desrt>   fun:sse2_combine_over_u
<desrt> }
<desrt> you may need to change value4 for value8 or value16 or value1 or so
<desrt> it's an annoying thing that valgrind doesn't tell you the size of the read that caused the invalid conditional jump :/
<desrt> actually
<desrt> Memcheck:Cond is probably the correct one for that case
<desrt> now that i think about it
<seb128> desrt, thanks, trying
<seb128> desrt, that did it, thanks
<desrt> seb128: so back to the drawing board on the original problem :)
<seb128> desrt, yeah, trying to get a stracktrace
<desrt> seb128: i can't see any problem within gtktimeline itself
<dobey> desrt: do you know anything about proxy support in gnome3?
<desrt> seb128: can you give me a bit more context from the crash?
<desrt> dobey: i know you should make sure glib-networking is installed if you want it to work properly
<desrt> that's about it, though :)
<dobey> eh
<desrt> seb128: ie: the 'reason' part of the complaint
<desrt> (ie: recently freed, or not recently freed, etc)
<dobey> desrt: actually, that does help. thanks :)
<seb128> desrt, not really, I didn't hit the issue on real user
<seb128> desrt, though I often get a g_critical about a g_timer call, I should have noted it
<seb128> desrt, I was just valgrinding nautilus for another bug and spotted that error in the log
<seb128> desrt, so I figured I would take the opportunity to at least record it in a bug report
<desrt> seb128: gonna need more info, i'm afraid :)
<desrt> seb128: where did http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/816567/ come from?
<seb128> desrt, valgrind nautilus
<desrt> seb128: you copy/pasted bits of it out, right?
<seb128> I get it every time I run nautilus under valgrind
<seb128> desrt, no, that's all I get
<desrt> let me see if i can get it to happen here, then
<desrt> oh.  weird?
<desrt> i wonder if valgrind has again become less useful
<seb128> desrt, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/816616/
<seb128> it's a full valgrind log
<desrt> ==6230==  Address 0x103f9664 is 84 bytes inside a block of size 88 free'd
<desrt> ==6230==    at 0x4C2882E: free (in /usr/lib/valgrind/vgpreload_memcheck-amd64-linux.so)
<desrt> ==6230==    by 0x858F79A: g_type_free_instance (in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgobject-2.0.so.0.3110.0)
<desrt> ==6230==    by 0x85938A2: g_value_unset (in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgobject-2.0.so.0.3110.0)
<desrt> ==6230==    by 0x858802A: g_signal_emit_valist (in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgobject-2.0.so.0.3110.0)
<desrt> ==6230==    by 0x85881B1: g_signal_emit (in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgobject-2.0.so.0.3110.0)
<desrt> ==6230==    by 0x654D406: gtk_timeline_run_frame (gtktimeline.c:337)
<desrt> this is the part i was looking for :)
<seb128> desrt, I don't get that here :-(
<desrt> seb128: i think you need --leak-check=full
<desrt> makes it slower but you get much better output
<desrt> anyway.  figured out the problem now.
<seb128> desrt, do you want a bug report and on what component?
<desrt> i'll report it.  i already have a patch
<desrt> thanks for the poke
<seb128> desrt, thanks for looking into it
<seb128> desrt, ok, better with the standard options
<seb128> GLib-CRITICAL **: g_timer_stop: assertion `timer != NULL' failed
<seb128> ==19657== Invalid read of size 4
<seb128> ==19657==    at 0x4A38E47: g_type_check_instance (gtype.c:4070)
<seb128> ==19657==    by 0x3FEFFFFF: ???
<seb128> ==19657==  Address 0x10043318 is 0 bytes inside a block of size 60 free'd
<seb128> ==19657==    at 0x402906C: free (in /usr/lib/valgrind/vgpreload_memcheck-x86-linux.so)
<seb128>  
<seb128> desrt, so yeah, my not useful log is because rather than using my normal alias I tweaked the command to try to get ride of the pixman stuff :p
<desrt> oh :p
<desrt> want to test a patch?
<seb128> desrt, sure
<desrt> let me make sure it compiles first :)
<seb128> desrt, can you give me the bugzilla bug number when you get it?
<desrt> yup
<seb128> thanks
<jbicha> pitti: actually freerdp's soname was updated, do we still need a breaks against remmina?
<pitti> jbicha: oh, it was between beta and final?
<pitti> jbicha: no, if there's a libfreerdp1 now, we don't of course
<jbicha> I don't know but it helps if I read the lintian errors ;)
<pitti> jbicha: heh
<pitti> jbicha: so, with that fixed it seems all good to me
<desrt> seb128: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=668675
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 668675 in general "GtkTimeline: protect the timeline from unref" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<desrt> seb128: seems to fix it for me locally
<pitti> good night everyone
<seb128> 'night pitti
<desrt> pitti: ciao
<desrt> seb128: looks like release team is going to bring back some sort of dependency tracking/control for next cycle
<didrocks> have a good night pitti
<seb128> desrt, \o/
<desrt> i don't know what the form will be... but anything is better than nothing :p
<DBO> does anyone know if it would be evil to do this: XFixesQueryExtension(m_X11Display, &_xfixes_event_base, &_xfixes_error_base); multiple times?
<mterry> kenvandine, thanks for fixing the indicator path stuff for unity-greeter, was just about to roll my own patch
<mterry> kenvandine, did you merge-request that?
<kenvandine> i did
<kenvandine> mterry, it was a must have for the libindicator abi bump
<mterry> cool, thanks
<kenvandine> np
<mterry> agreed
<seb128> desrt, your gtk fix seems to work for me as well
<seb128> desrt, sorry it took a while, I got sidetracked in other things ;-)
<desrt> no worries.  it didn't get any review upstream yet either :)
<RainCT> agateau_: Hey, around? :)
<agateau_> RainCT: yep, not for long though
<RainCT> agateau_: Just wanted to ask what's the API for recent documents in GTK/Qt since I can't seem to find it :/.
<RainCT> s/GTK/KDE
<agateau_> RainCT: I don't think there is a specific Qt-only API,
<agateau_> RainCT: KDE apps uses the KRecentDocument API
<agateau_> RainCT: http://api.kde.org/4.x-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kio/html/classKRecentDocument.html
<RainCT> agateau_: Thanks. What's some example app that uses this, Kate?
<agateau_> RainCT: this stores files in ~/.kde/share/apps/RecentDocuments
<agateau_> RainCT: yes, any app which uses the KDE file dialog
<RainCT> agateau_: ok, thanks :)
<RainCT> oh it uses .desktop files.. weird :p
 * didrocks waves good evening
<jono> hey folks
<jono> I just upgraded Precise and see no indicators - anyone else having this issue?
<jono> I saw there was a bunch of indicator updates
<RainCT> agateau_: if you're still around, do you know what an usual value for maximumItems() is?
<dobey> jono: indicators working for me after latest upgrades on precise, and a reboot, on my laptop.
<micahg_> umm, just got this after I tried restarting the panel after it crashed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/816878/
<micahg> right now I have no unity panel, this is on an oneiric machine
 * micahg wonders if any unity people are here
<mterry> micahg, unity people are best found in #ubuntu-unity
<micahg> mterry: I'm there and tried with no luck
<OwaisL_> I upgraded Unity from staging ppa today and indicators are gone from the panel.
<OwaisL_> anyone else experiencing this?
<dobey> DBO: if I have a shell script which runs "java foo.jar" and a .desktop file for the shell script, is there any way to make bamf resolve to that .desktop file for that java app?
<micahg> gah, a 7hr webkit build :(
<TheMuso> micahg: I feel your pain, I went through something similar when I was working on openjdk recently.
<micahg> I'm just lamenting it building on amd64 on crested
<TheMuso> Ah.
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-01-26
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: hey man, around
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Sure thing.
<cyphermox> hey jasoncwarner_
<jasoncwarner_> hey cyphermox , how are things?
<cyphermox> alright. about to log off to watch tv for a bit
<jasoncwarner_> hey cyphermox quick ? for ya, just sent you an email actually
<jasoncwarner_> I lost my network indicator in an update...did something break?
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Yes, indicator ABI breakage.
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: gah
<jasoncwarner_> ok.
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Are you running Unity from a PPA?
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: yes, dx PPA
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Right, the PPA is not likely built against the new indicator ABI in teh archive yet.
<cyphermox> network... indicator?
<TheMuso> cyphermox: Its not an nm bug specifically, its indicator breakage, so any app indicator won't show.
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso cyphermox thanks...I'll remove the PPA and update....
<jasoncwarner_> Thanks
<cyphermox> oh
<cyphermox> jasoncwarner_: nmcli is your friend
<cyphermox> normally the fact that the indicator isn't showing shouldn't be a huge stopper for connecting, just do something like 'nmcli con up id "mywifi"
<lifeless>  
<cyphermox> that should bring it up
<jasoncwarner_> cyphermox: thanks, will give that a shot
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Actually... Which DX PPA were you using?
<TheMuso> Unity is currently being rebult in the unity-team/staging PPA.
<TheMuso> Which means it should be building against the new ABI.
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: that was the one...I just removed and updated
<TheMuso> Ok, give it a few hours and you should be able to use that PPA again.
<jasoncwarner_> ah, ok! thanks, man
<cyphermox> TheMuso: any chance you're very very fluent in vala?
<cyphermox> TheMuso: seems to me like valac < 0.16 need to be patched to not add g_thread_init when Gtk.init() is called and an app compiled with --thread. I already have a patch, but I wanted a second opinion before uploading something
<TheMuso> cyphermox: Sorry, I am not the one who can give you that opinion, my knowledge of vala is not yet that deep.
<cyphermox> sure.
<cyphermox> I'll just ask seb in the morning
<cyphermox> thanks!
<jbicha> it seems like everything is being built today, builders are working overtime :)
<micahg> cyphermox: robert_ancell would be a good person to ask about vala if he were around
<jbicha> micahg: small thing, but xul-ext-calendar-timezones is trying to pull in seamonkey unless I use --no-install-recommends
<micahg> jbicha: not sure that's a small thing :)
<jbicha> will thunderbird (>= 10.0) work with thunderbird 10.0~beta4
<micahg> precise I assume?
<jbicha> yes
<micahg> no
<micahg> it should be 10.0~
<jbicha> cool, it had actually been bugging me for a few days, keeping me from doing a dist-upgrade until I looked into what was wrong
<jbicha> which I finally did just now
<micahg> jbicha: please file a bug and assign to chrisccoulson
<micahg> he'll be uploading the final 1.2 build shortly
<jbicha> micahg: ok thanks
<micahg> jbicha: the only reason I haven't noticed is that I have seamonkey on both machines with the beta
<TheMuso> p/c
<corvolino> someone to take a course on the desktop team, please?
<kenvandine> finally the builders seem happier :)
<didrocks> good morning
<BigWhale> Good Morning people.
<didrocks> hey BigWhale
<rickspencer3> pitti, looking here: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/precise_probs.html I'm wondering if Kubuntu is going to ahve trouble making an Alpha 2
<rickspencer3> ?
<pitti> rickspencer3: I think it's fine; in the past two days we got two metric tons of KDE uploads, for the 4.8 beta and now the final
<rickspencer3> thanks pitti
<pitti> I guess that created some waves wrt. buildd lag, binNEW, and so on
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg doesn't look so bad, I figure it's mostly build skew
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey
<seb128> pitti, hey, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: I'm great, thanks!
<pitti> we went to a nice concert last night, "Power!Percussion"
<pitti> they hammered on pretty much everything imaginable; ladders, PVC tubes, rainwater and oil barrels, and of course actual drums, too
<seb128> pitti, was it good? ;-)
<pitti> absolutely
<pitti> these guys rocked
<pitti> it was amazing which brilliant sound you get from carefully crafted drain pipes :)
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> pitti, sounds great ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, lut, en forme ?
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey pitti ;)
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va! :)
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, didrocks, seb128
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm good thanks
<seb128> didrocks, still no compiz in sight? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> good! ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: still none, anyway, it's too late now for a proper pre-testing before upload to precise and before unity freeze :/
<seb128> pitti, so we stay on the current udev for precise? just to know for versions, I might add a system to say that some packages are not current on purpose
<pitti> seb128: see current discussion on #u-devel; let me paste the bits that you missed
<pitti> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/817412/
<seb128> pitti, danke
<pitti> seb128: so in short, it's likely that we'll stay at 175 with some cherrypicks, unless we want to adopt kmod for precise
<seb128> ok, thanks
<pitti> seb128: want to wait for slangasek's and cjwatson's opinion first before I start wasting time
<seb128> pitti, ok
<seb128> well, I will look at adding a "stick to version <v> for reason <reason>" to version
<seb128> that's not the only case where we could use that ;-)
<pitti> ah, nice
<pitti> yeah, especially for precise
<pitti> seb128: so, leave udev for now, I'll look into reverting the kmod bit and update to 179
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
<tkamppeter> pitti, can you approve the SRU upload for bug 902599? Thanks.
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 902599 in ghostscript "Ghostscript renders only a part of the attached PDF file when using a high resolution" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/902599
<pitti> tkamppeter: done, thanks!
<seb128> is "locatedb" supposed to index user directories by default?
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks.
<pitti> seb128: yes
<pitti> seb128: but it should only show you files that you can also ls yourself
<seb128> weird
<pitti> why?
<seb128> I wonder why is doesn't index my user dir here then
<seb128> because it doesn't index my user dir
<pitti> seb128: is your user dir 0700?
<pitti> not that this ought to stop mlocale, but it might be a possible difference
<pitti> mlocate
<seb128> pitti, yes, but I think it's rather because ecryptfs is in the prunefs list of updatedb.conf there
<pitti> seb128: my home dir is on ecryptfs, too
<pitti> ooh, you are right
<seb128> pitti, hum, and it's indexed?
<seb128> weird
<pitti> seb128: the stuff that it finds for me is in /home/martin-scratch/
<seb128> ok, that makes sense ;-)
<pitti> which has my download folder, jhbuild, downloaded ISOs, etc.
<pitti> I have ~/download -> ../martin-scratch/download/
<pitti> I foudn that ecryptfs is quite a lot of overhead for e. g. kvm images
<pitti> so I moved that stuff there
<seb128> it might be, I didn't notice too much since I'm on a ssd drive
<jackyalcine> What package has the headers required to get your application's configuration found in the Settings Windows?
<jackyalcine> Like the Ubuntu version of GNOME Control Center?
<pitti> I guess it makes sense, otherwise you'd expose information on an encrypted drive to the unencrypted portion
<seb128> but anyway that explains why things don't get indexed there
<pitti> jackyalcine: gnome-control-center-dev ?
<seb128> what configuration in what settings?
<pitti> jackyalcine: in general, Debian/Ubuntu usually split include files and the like into separate -dev packages
<seb128> you want to integrate a capplet in g-c-c? that's not something GNOME upstream supports
<pitti> ah, misunderstood, sorry
<jackyalcine> Yeah, they told me that on GIMPnet.
<seb128> could be me, I've difficulties to understand the question
<jackyalcine> And that distros provide their own.
<jackyalcine> I see that there's libg-c-c-dev and g-c-c-dev.
<seb128> what do you try to do?
<pitti> jackyalcine: we don't patch the code for that; we just add extra icons which then launch separate programs (i. e. not embedded into the c-c shell)
<jackyalcine> seb128: I want to add another application's configuration in there.
<jackyalcine> Largely under Accessibility.
<seb128> "in there" beeing?
<seb128> in the system settings dialog?
<jackyalcine> Yup.
<seb128> you can't modify capplets dynamically from outside
<jackyalcine> Hmm.
<seb128> you need to distro patch the gnome-control-center code to do that
<jackyalcine> Oy.
<jackyalcine> I'll stick to the in-app "Edit -> Preferences" then, lol.
<jackyalcine> Thansk.
<jackyalcine> *Thanks
<seb128> yw
<mandel> I just installed the updates in P and my system is in a certainly insteresting state to say the least. It boot and it looks like the x-server luanches but nothing more..
<mandel> lightdm does not appear and I'm stuck with a nice black screen and a lovely x :)
<mandel> has anyone seen this? I can log in the machine thorugh ssh to get more info
<pitti> seeing /var/log/Xorg.0.log and /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log might be interesting
<mandel> pitti, ok, on it
<mandel> pitti, Xorg.0.log =>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/817499/   lightdm.log => http://paste.ubuntu.com/817500/
<pitti> so, lightdm apparently didn't see the X server
<pitti> mandel: can you please pastebin the output of "dpkg -l 'nvidia*' | cat"?
<pitti> dpkg -l 'nvidia*' | pastebinit
<pitti> will do
<pitti> (the cat is to suppress dpkg's overzealous truncation
<pitti> mandel: if you are using nvidia-173, that was accidentally uploaded for the new X.org although it's not working
<pitti> that might be one explanation
<pitti> mandel: instead of pastebinning you can also just check if you use -173 or -current
<mandel> pitti, already did the pastebin => http://paste.ubuntu.com/817503/ :)
<pitti> ok, you use -current
<didrocks> this is interesting: http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/journal/2012-01/007.html
<pitti> so, that's where my wisdom ends, I'm afraid :/
<pitti> mandel: you might need to ping any of the X.org guys (RAOF, bryce, tjaalton, Sarvatt), maybe they have more ideas
<mandel> pitti, well, that is much more than I know about this, no worries :)
<mandel> will ping them
<pitti> didrocks: that reflects my experience as well
<pitti> C++ makes it really really hard to maintain a stable ABI
<pitti> and even harder to use symbols files
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I gave up on nux as well
<pitti> mandel: what you could try in the meantime is to uninstall the nvidia driver and try with nouveau?
<didrocks> but great to see it written down somewhere and not only us suxing at it :)
<mandel> pitti, sure I can
<pitti> mandel: sudo jockey-text -d xorg:nvidia_current
<pitti> mandel: I'm not sure about the exact identifier, check jockey-text -l for it
<pitti> mandel: that should at least get you a working machine back
<pitti> rodrigo_: hello, how are you?
<pitti> rodrigo_: sorry for the delay on the langpack stuff; I now finished creating a separate python module with the check-language-support logic, and will now work on an aptdaemon plugin
<pitti> rodrigo_: I understand that your region panel branch uses WhatProvides(), right? how does it call this exactly?
<pitti> rodrigo_: I'd like to provide an aptdaemon implementation for this, so that the region panel will work
<pitti> rodrigo_: also, a question: how do you test control-center from the upstream git checkout? jhbuild? or is there a more elegant way of running it from the source tree?
<rodrigo_> pitti, I use jhbuild, yes
<rodrigo_> pitti, I'll finish the g-c-c work this weekend
<rodrigo_> pitti, as per the call to WhatProvides, that's what needs a little change, as it's all async
<rodrigo_> so need to make it work asynchronously when you close the dialog by selecting a language
<rodrigo_> pitti, shoudn't take long, so as I said, will do it this weekend
<pitti> rodrigo_: ah, so if I were to test it, I'd check out the wip/ branch, configure jhbuild to use that, jhbuild buildone, and then jhbuild run gnome-control-center?
<pitti> rodrigo_: I meant WhatProvides expects a PK_PROVIDES_ something
<pitti> rodrigo_: oh, you mean you already have an aptdaemon branch for this? or do you use the actual PackageKit for this?
<pitti> rodrigo_: I was going to work on the aptdaemon change, using the new library (to avoid having to call the check-language-support binary, and also to drop all the crufty l-s code)
<nessita> hello everyone! silly question... why apt will, from time to time, "automatically kept back" some packages?
<seb128> hey nessita, how are you?
<seb128> nessita, what do you use? "upgrade"? or "dist-upgrade"?
<nessita> seb128: hola! so, this is a fresh precise install, and I daily use apt-get update and apt-get upgrade
<nessita> seb128: shall I use dist-upgrade?
<seb128> nessita, yeah, not especially, but upgrade will not install new packages or uninstall deprecated old ones
<seb128> nessita, so the stuff on hold are usually things that have a new depends or conflict with something
<seb128> you will need to either apt-get install those or dist-upgrade to get them
<seb128> nessita, can you pastebin your apt-get upgrade log?
<nessita> seb128: my current one?
<seb128> nessita, the one where you get kept packages binaries
<seb128> nessita, i.e just the list of what is kept back
<nessita> seb128: ah, is everything in here, but you'll fin what you're looking for: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/817578/ :-)
<seb128> nessita, right, those are kept back because one of the indicator libs changed soname so a new lib binary is going to be installed
<seb128> nessita, you can use dist-upgrade and check that it doesn't want to remove anything you use
<seb128> but it should not, everything has been rebuilt
<nessita> sure
<nessita> seb128: with dist-upgrade, no removals, and nvidia-173 will be kept back
<seb128> nessita, seems good, go for it ;-)
<nessita> sounds good
<nessita> thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<rodrigo_> pitti, sorry, missed your reply
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, for g-c-c checkout the wip/install-languages branch, and build it under jhbuild or just install it separately
<rodrigo_> pitti, and no, I don't have an aptdaemon branch
<pitti> rodrigo_: ah, ok, good
<rodrigo_> pitti, oh, I have some PackageKit changes locally indeed
<rodrigo_> pitti, I'll send you a patch
<pitti> rodrigo_: ah, thanks; I can look at this then and implement WhatProvides() in aptdaemon accordingly
<rodrigo_> pitti, ok
<rodrigo_> pitti, sent
<pitti> rodrigo_: I don't see a fitting PK_PROVIDES_ in PK 0.7.2
<rodrigo_> no, just changes in my local branch
<pitti> rodrigo_: but I guess hughsie wouldn't mind adding it?
<rodrigo_> no, he doesn't
<pitti> PK_PROVIDES_LANGUAGE_SUPPORT
<pitti> oh?
<rodrigo_> he suggested himself to use WhatProvides
<pitti> even if Fedora doesn't have langpacks, they still have dictionaries and all that?
<rodrigo_> yeah
<pitti> rodrigo_: right, but WhatProvides needs a "type" which is PkProvidesEnum
<pitti> and we shouldn't abuse CODEC, MODALIAS, or PLASMA_SERVICE or what not
<pitti> so if we want to implement this in aptdaemon's PK compat layer, I guess the real PK should define at least an enum for this?
<rodrigo_> pitti, that's what my patch does, see your mail :)
<pitti> rodrigo_: oh, I think I misunderstood you - you mean he doesn't mind getting it added
 * pitti should read his own questions more carefully :)
<rodrigo_> yeah
<pitti> rodrigo_: ah, yeah, straightforward patch (tab damage, BTW)
<rodrigo_> he suggested using WhatProvides, so I added the PK_PROVIDES_* enum
<rodrigo_> pitti, TAB damage?
<pitti> lib/packagekit-qt2/transaction.h
<pitti> +        ProvidesPlasmaService,
<pitti> +       ProvidesLocale
<pitti> (indentation)
<pitti> probably spaces vs. tabs; nevermind, just nitpicking
<pitti> rodrigo_: I wonder if "LOCALE" conveys it right: we do not actually install the locale itself, but support packages for a language
<pitti> rodrigo_: if you haven't sent it upstream yet, perhaps we could name it LANGUAGE_SUPPORT?
<rodrigo_> yes
<pitti> we might actually have a LOCALE in the future, to create a new locale
<pitti> in teh sense of localedef
<rodrigo_> yeah, makes sense
<rodrigo_> btw, just installed ubuntu on my new laptop, and I get lightdm (had gdm from previous installs in all my machines), so how do I select the GNOME session?
<pitti> rodrigo_: apt-get install gnome-shell ?
<pitti> rodrigo_: that should install /usr/share/xsessions/gnome-shell.desktop
<rodrigo_> pitti, ah ok
<pitti> rodrigo_: both gdm and lightdm show /usr/share/xsessions/*.desktop (the ones which are available)
<rodrigo_> ok, it wasn't showing anything, I guess because there's only the ubuntu session available at install
<rodrigo_> on a clean install,. that is
<seb128> rodrigo_, there is a bug in current unity-greeter if you use precise, the "gear" icon is only available after switching user or something
<pitti> yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, have to catch a train in a few hours, so keeping with oneiric until the weekend :)
<seb128> ok, oneiric should work fine
<seb128> just install g-s then ;-)
<rodrigo_> but yes, will move to precise as soon as I'm back
<seb128> weird
<seb128> you should have the selector on a default install with unity and unity-2d at least
<seb128> rodrigo_, that's the small gear icon next to the password field
<rodrigo_> hmm, didn't see nothing, let me recheck
<rodrigo_> ah yes, there it is
<seb128> ;-)
<jml> pidgin seems to be notifying me about everyone who comes online. Is there a way to stop it?
<pitti> mvo:
<pitti> 14:27:54 AptDaemon.Worker [DEBUG]: Loaded modify_cache_after plugin: language-selector 0.1
<pitti> *grin*
<pitti> mvo: clever thing, this entry_points
<mvo> :)
<pitti> this works quite nicely: ./setup.py egg_info; sudo PYTHONPATH=. aptd -r -d
<jml> got it
<jml> it's an option on a plugin (libnotify popups) rather than in the main preferences.
<seb128> jml, right
<kamstrup> mvo: hey - how are you? - my favorite S-C hacker? ;-)
<kamstrup> (obviously /me is not asking to be polite, but because he has work for you)
<kamstrup> mvo: regarding https://code.launchpad.net/~bilalakhtar/unity/software-center-integration-for-o/+merge/89364 ... do you guys have plans to merge Gary's S-C branch soonish?
<mvo> kamstrup: hello! I'm good, thanks! we absolutely do, once the new unity lands I will upload a new s-c
<kamstrup> mvo: awesome - can you add a comment on the mp? I think bilal will be happy :-)
<GunnarHj> pitti: ping?
<pitti> hello GunnarHj
<GunnarHj> Hi!
<GunnarHj> pitti: I just added a comment to bug 904395. It's related to the pending a-s MP, and I'd appreciate if you could take a quick look.
<GunnarHj> Why doesn't a link pop up as usual?
<cyphermox> good morning!
<cyphermox> hey seb128, pitti; what are the plans for vala this cycle, are we going to ship with all the versions we currently have?
<seb128> hey cyphermox
<seb128> the less versions the better
<cyphermox> of course :)
<seb128> we should at least get ride of <= 12 in main
<pitti> cyphermox: I certainly hope we can get rid of < 14, what seb128 says
<cyphermox> ok, then an accompanying question
<cyphermox> seems like vala < 16 are adding g_thread_init() when an app uses Gtk.init() and is compiled with --thread. I got a patch for it (noticed this trying to build and port pino from 0.10 to 0.14), but I was wondering if you had any counter-indications?
<cyphermox> I think pro
<pitti> cyphermox: no, it's fine to drop it, as it's deprecated since lucid's glib
<cyphermox> aye.
<seb128> what pitti said
<cyphermox> so I'll just re-test the build to be certain and upload with my patch
<cyphermox> we use the udd branches for the versions before 0.16?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> or feel free to create a branch in the team vcs if you think it's useful
<seb128> but I don't think we do enough changes on those to warrant it
<cyphermox> nah
<cyphermox> perhaps just update Vcs-* to reflect it though
 * seb128 fixes vino upnp, that was really broken
<seb128> does anyone use vino with upnp, or know how that works from an user perspective to test if the updated version works as it should?
<cyphermox> maybe.
<cyphermox> not sure if I can get this working with my router now though
<seb128> the "use system libminiupnpc lib" patch was including the vino local libminiupnpc copy .h and not ported to the new lib abi (some function prototypes changed)
<seb128> so basically it was building fine because the defines where matching to code
<cyphermox> ok
<seb128> but the functions where not matching the system lib used at runtime
<seb128> well anyway I'm fixing that
<seb128> cyphermox, once I upload vino to precise testing is welcome ;-)
<cyphermox> well, the way to test is basically to enable upnp on a router that supports it, then it will poke holes in the firewall automatically to let someone connect, possibly
<seb128> cyphermox, how do you check that the firewall config correctly changed?
<seb128> you try to connect from "outside"?
<seb128> I guess you need an "outside" then ;-) all my machines are on the same lan
<cyphermox> yeah
<mdeslaur> seb128: let me know when you're firewall is open so I can hack^H^H^H^Htest your machine :)
<cyphermox> seb128: careful. mdeslaur doesn't even need upnp to be able to go though ;)
<manish> didrocks: ping
<didrocks> hey manish
<manish> didrocks: I hope you remember me..
<manish> I am still working on activity log manager
<seb128> mdeslaur, see now I'm scared and will not test the fix :p
<manish> is it still being considered to be included in precise
<mdeslaur> seb128: hehe :)
<seb128> mdeslaur, I might just drop the patch and build with the years old libminiupnpc copy shipped in vino :p
<manish> didrocks: as per the blueprint
<didrocks> manish: yeah it is :) I think you should coordinate with seiflotfy who as talked to design about it
<manish> didrocks: I have the design
<manish> I am working with him
<didrocks> oh excellent!
<manish> if you want you can try it out
<didrocks> manish: did you get good progress?
<manish> yup
<manish> nearly
<manish> will finish it by 1st week of feb
<didrocks> not right now, but I can give it a try soonish :)
<manish> sure, anytime you are free
<didrocks> manish: that will give us just the needed time before feature freeze, awesome :)
<manish> yup
<manish> 16th of feb IIRC
<didrocks> right, but let's try to get it in before :)
<manish> I don't know much about packaging, so might need your help in it
<didrocks> manish: sure, no worry, is it a patch to gnome-control-center?
<manish> I know about packaging, but not from scratch
<manish> didrocks: nope. as a applet inside control center
<manish> one more entry
<manish> like bluetooth, displays etc
<didrocks> ok nice, I'll make the packaging for it :)
<manish> probably you can look at the gcc entries
<didrocks> manish: do you have a vcs somewhere so that I can have a look when I have some time?
<manish> didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~activity-log-manager/activity-log-manager/vala
<didrocks> perfect :)
<manish> uses gtk3 and vala
<manish> application blacklist nearly done
<didrocks> manish: with which version of vala are you building it?
<manish> file type finished
<didrocks> "private mode" as well?
<manish> didrocks: 0.14
<manish> didrocks: incognito?
<manish> yes done
<didrocks> manish: great andâ¦ great ;)
<manish> history erasing is pending
<manish> UI is up
<manish> backend pending
<didrocks> you will make a lot of people happy
<manish> :)
<manish> I am still fighting with gtk
<didrocks> seriously, it was one of the concerns people had over the past 2 cycles :)
<didrocks> oh?
<manish> yes, gtk isn't the cleanest toolkit anyway
<manish> yes, lot many people were concerned
<manish> an askubuntu answer on it has 10K+ views
<didrocks> manish: so, I'll prepare the integration of it. Ping me back (next week?) when you think you have finished the devel part :)
<manish> didrocks: sure
<manish> if you can do the packaging even before release
<manish> it will help in testing it
<manish> like launchpad recipies
<didrocks> manish: yeah, I'll do something around this shortly :)
<manish> that's cool. Thanks
<didrocks> thanks for the head's up. Can wait testing it! :)
<didrocks> can't
<didrocks> I meant ;)
<manish> :)
<pitti> bzd
<pitti> whoops, sorry
<cyphermox> would someone be so kind as to sponsor my vala-0.14 upload? :)   ---> https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/ubuntu/precise/vala-0.14/removing-g_thread_init/+merge/90270
<kenvandine> cyphermox, sure
<cyphermox> kenvandine: thanks :)
<corvolino> someone?
<cyphermox> corvolino: what's up?
<BigWhale> is it possible to detect that someone changed screen resolution?
<seb128> BigWhale, xorg probably send some signal when that happens yes
<dobey> BigWhale: yes, in gdk you can i think
<BigWhale> seb128, yeah
<BigWhale> oh there's a GdkScreen size changed signal
<dobey> didrocks: why is all this unity stuff in the "user interface" properties now? it totally disturbs the design of the panel. also, would be nice if it wasn't called "user interface" :-/
<dobey> BigWhale: exactly
<didrocks> dobey: following the official design, I think that you should talk to the design team for any concern
<dobey> ok
<seb128> dobey, there is bug #918580 about the name not being a good one
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 918580 in gnome-control-center "System Settings 'User Interface' name is bad in 12.04" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/918580
<dobey> ah ok
<seb128> dobey, it's waiting for design reply though, you can still try to ping design about it
<seb128> dobey, the bug so far is just comments from one user who doesn't like the name either ;-)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, remember, stop butchering the upstream design :P
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: indeed, it's all my fault :)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> hah: "still, people using Unity will have a different g-c-c from upstream g-c-c, and their opinion about g-c-c (and gnome) design will be tainted by your modifications"
<ronoc> desrt, hey,  we have changed the name on the gsettings schema for i-sound to be inline with what the other indicators use i.e. ...indicator.sound as opposed to what it was previously indicators.sound
<pitti> tkamppeter: so it seems the new cups-filters work is now complete, with larsu's last filter?
<ronoc> desrt, how do you suggest we go about migrating existing users settings from the old schema to the new
<chrisccoulson> i'm really tempted to reply with "the current upstream design of g-c-c actually taints peoples opinions of ubuntu"
<dobey> chrisccoulson: what's worse, is that all versions of unity don't follow the settings.
<chrisccoulson> but i shall refrain from starting a troll-fest
<seb128> dobey, the settings displayed correspond to the desktop you use
<desrt> ronoc: usually install the old schema for a short while and copy settings from it into the new one
<seb128> dobey, so that's a wrong statement
<dobey> seb128: unity-2d does not follow the launcher panel size setting.
<seb128> desrt, didn't you mention that you were thinking about adding aliases or something?
<desrt> ronoc: i'm confused, though... did you just change the name of the schema or also the path?
<desrt> if it's the same path, you don't need to do anything
<seb128> dobey, which is why that section will not be displayed under unity-2d
<desrt> seb128: ya.  it doesn't xist right now, though
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, are the additional separators on the appearance panel part of the design btw?
<pitti> good night everyone!
<seb128> dobey, or none of the sections will be displayed under gnome-shell
<chrisccoulson> they look a bit odd
<desrt> pitti: ciao
<seb128> pitti, 'night
<ronoc> desrt, we changed the path aswell
<dobey> seb128: that makes it even worse, because then the "user interface" name is really inappropriate when those aren't there :)
<desrt> ronoc: then you have trouble :)
<desrt> ronoc: why did you change the path?
<ronoc> brilliant
<ronoc> i think we can change it back
<seb128> dobey, you still get the theme selector etc
<ronoc> i haven't released yet
<desrt> ugh
<desrt> /desktop/unity?
<dobey> seb128: you get background and theme; appearance :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: they are
<didrocks> good night pitti
<seb128> dobey, which is still not the upstream name "background"
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, :(
<chrisccoulson> it would look much better without them there IMO
<dobey> seb128: no, but at least it's not confusing, and it's correct.
<ronoc> desrt, it was more that path followed some old naming format, again i wanted to bring it inline with the other indicators
<seb128> dobey, well feel free to argue with design, ui, appareance, same difference...
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, there are way too many horizontal lines now, and it makes the whole panel look cluttered
<didrocks> dobey: if you are under unity-2d, there is no "change launcher size"
<didrocks> see my post
<desrt> ronoc: so one thing you can do is to use the dconf commandline tool
<seb128> chrisccoulson, open a bug and make it also affect ayatana-design ;-)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, ok, will do :)
<desrt> this works: dconf dump /a/ | dconf load /b/
<ronoc> desrt, ah good idea
<seb128> desrt, ronoc: I don't like the sound of that
<ronoc> desrt, ill talk to charles when he gets in and see how bad a migration it will be
<ronoc> oh
<seb128> that seems hackish and fragile
<seb128> better to leave with buggy paths until desrt add his alias stuff
<ronoc> ok
<desrt> seb128: like gsettings-data-convert? :)
<seb128> you are not the only one to have picked a buggu path
<desrt> seb128: i don't think i will add the alias stuff
<dobey> didrocks: yes, seb128 just said that. and it only makes it more confusing. especially if your graphics drivers break at some point and all of a sudden you are put into unity-2d :)
<cyphermox> corvolino: if you want to help out with the ubuntu-desktop team you're at the right place
<desrt> seb128: because then you have to carry that weight ofrever...
<desrt> *forever
<seb128> right
<seb128> better to get your naming right to start with
<dobey> anyway i will open the bug
<didrocks> dobey: not really related to g-c-c change, but well :)
<didrocks> or ask the 2d guys to support the setting
 * desrt notes that either gkeyfile or dconf load has a bug
<dobey> well it is
<desrt> GLib-CRITICAL **: g_key_file_load_from_data: assertion `length != 0' failed
<ronoc> seb128, preferred naming does change though
<ronoc> ayatana -> unity
<ronoc> etc
<ronoc> so there is a need sometimes to change it
<cyphermox> corvolino: how much do you know about debian packaging? if you're already comfortable doing things there's a list of tasks on the team pad, see the URL in the topic
<seb128> ronoc, well, deal with the migration if you feel like it's important
<corvolino> cyphermox: I wanted to help in packaging, is it possible?
<seb128> I just tend to think that it's work over what is work
<ronoc> seb128, i just want to get right i suppose for the lts
<seb128> work->worth
<seb128> ronoc, yeah, I can see that, I tried to push you to fix it previous cycle :p
<seb128> ronoc, if we fix it this cycle we have to carry the migration code and the hacks for the lts
<seb128> which sucks a bit
<ronoc> aye
<seb128> since we have to support 11.10 to 12.04
<seb128> but well, if you can figure a solide way to migrate
<cyphermox> corvolino: of course it is, but some things may be a little difficult if you don't already know some things about packaging
<seb128> cyphermox, corvolino: i.e gnome-nettool should be an easy update
<desrt> seb128: in a certain sense, you have to support the hacks forever always anyway
<BigWhale> oh fun ... Kazam used Xlib for getting all the info about screens and displays ... no real need for that, Gdk has all the info... yay, I can do some rewriting now
<ronoc> seb128, i could at runtime check to see if there is an old gsettings lying around if so, copy over values and delete the old gsettings
<desrt> upgrading to x+2 from x may involve going through x+1
<seb128> ronoc, the issue is due to the way gsettings works you can't read a key which has no schemas
<desrt> but there is no requirement that you login to every user and run all the programs while on x+1
<desrt> so the migration may not happen
<seb128> desrt, well too bad for you then
<ronoc> indeed
<cyphermox> corvolino: like seb128 said.  There's also going to be tutorials next week to explain exactly that (and a lot of things) in #ubuntu-classroom (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek)
<ronoc> my opinion exactly
<ronoc> :)
<desrt> seb128: i'm inclined to agree with that reasoning :)
<ronoc> hmm
<seb128> desrt, we can't keep hacks for ever, we support only from one lts to the next one
<desrt> just saying that there is no clear "we're safe now" line
<seb128> right
<seb128> well the line is "lts to lts should work"
<seb128> if you do something weird then
<ronoc> ok ill come back to it later
<desrt> thing is...
<desrt> if migration goes into this LTS then it does not have to be in the next one
<seb128> no
<desrt> so putting it into an LTS is a good thing, in fact
<seb128> better would have been to put it in 11.10
<corvolino> cyphermox seb128: ok thanks
<seb128> so we could have dropped it before the lts
<desrt> if we put it into LTS+1 then it would have to be both in LTS+1 and LTS-ng
<seb128> but it's too late for this one :p
<corvolino> cyphermox: I will start studying about deb packaging and try to help
<seb128> desrt, right, that's why I usually like to deal with those in lts-1, if we transition stuff which were not in the previous lts
<desrt> rigt.  in this case that's true
<seb128> desrt, like gsettings was not in 10.04
<desrt> but only because the settings in question were not in the last LTS
<seb128> indeed
<desrt> very well.  we're clearly all on the same page.
<desrt> ronoc: after you do the dump/load you should do a dconf reset -f /old/
<seb128> indeed ;-) why are we having this discussion? ;-)
<desrt> so that you don't repeatedly overwrite the keys in their new location with the old values
<seb128> desrt, btw that gtktimer bug turned out to be a popular nautilus segfault, it has a launchpad bug with like 15 duplicates
<seb128> desrt, so nice you got it fixed ;-)
<desrt> seb128: win.
<ronoc> desrt, ok cool, seb128 are you still against the dconf commandline tool approach
<seb128> ronoc, I'm not "against" it, it feels like hackish and fragile, but I don't have a better solution
<corvolino> seb128: you packages have .deb?
<mpt> mterry, hi, got a minute to talk about backups?
<seb128> ronoc, I don't like much relying on a command line tools to be called and behave from my code
<ronoc> seb128, sure
<ronoc> ill wait for charles to see what he thinks
<seb128> ronoc, but if you just miss key conversions in the fail case I guess that's fine
<seb128> ronoc, especially that lucid was not using gsettings, so it's not an lts to lts issue
<desrt> seb128: actually, i decided that aborting the program in gsettings is not good enough to catch programming errors
<ronoc> seb128, the other option is to not bother migrating users settings
<seb128> ronoc, and indicator-sound preferences are not that important
<ronoc> its not like there is anything too important in there
<desrt> seb128: so i plan to introduce some new code to the dconf commandline tool to cause kernel panics
<seb128> ronoc, right
<desrt> is that still okay?
<ronoc> remembered and blacklisted players
<ronoc> that is about it really
<ronoc> desrt, excellent
<seb128> desrt, ;-)
<desrt> ronoc: i'm fixing the empty keyfile issue now
<desrt> so that'll work properly in the next glib
<mterry> mpt, yeah
<desrt> (it works properly now -- you just get to see an ugly g_critical)
<seb128> desrt, btw what does the gmenu parser change means in practice for me? ;-) that robert_ancell needs to update this stuff in precise when we land the next glib,gtk combo?
<ronoc> desrt, ah good stuff
<mpt> mterry, in <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-improve-upgrade-experience> I have "[mpt] Design how to invite people to back up during upgrades (linking to Deja Dup?)"
<desrt> seb128: yes.
<desrt> seb128: i wrote him a nice little script to make it easier :)
<mpt> mterry, as I understand it, Deja Dup currently backs up just home folders, not entire systems, is that correct?
<seb128> desrt, how broken are the gmenu users going to be until that happens? no menu? segfault?
<mterry> mpt, yeah
<desrt> depends on how they coded it
<seb128> desrt, ok, well let's say I'm glad only games use it :p
<desrt> if they catch errors in the GtkBuilder and bail out, then they will bail out
<desrt> if they ignore errors and fetch the objects and feed them to GApplication then just no menus
<mpt> mterry, do you have any bright ideas on how people could easily back up their system files before upgrading from one Ubuntu version to the next?
<mterry> mpt, is the intended workflow "backup -> erase system -> install new version -> restore"?  Because that's not a workflow I'd recommend.  Otherwise, we just want to integrate backup in case the installer screws up the system?
<mterry> Or is it for full system rollbacking?
<mpt> mterry, full system rollback I think
<mterry> mpt, that's not a use case that current Deja Dup caters to
<mterry> mpt, it could happen....  would have to run as root.  But not as well tested a path
<mterry> I mean, for such a thing, you don't really need the full power of a backup system
<mterry> You just need a one time copy of the disk
<mpt> Right, you don't need increments or anything like that
<mterry> But Deja Dup only currently does the whole incremental thing, with chunking up data into gzipped volumes for easier future runs.  It doesn't have a mode that makes as much sense for a one-off like this
<mterry> I mean, it could be tweaked.  Just saying what it does now
<tkamppeter> pitti, yes, cups-filters is complete, I am updating the license and readme files now. I wanted to do it yesterday already, but yesterday the LF servers were not reachable.
<mterry> mpt, but maybe there's an existing tool that does do this (i.e. no reason to be wedded to DD)
<mpt> mterry, ok, thank you for that
<mterry> mpt, all you really need is (lowercase) dd and a UI in ubiquity I guess :)
<mpt> mterry, well, this was more about releas-upgrader
<mpt> +e
<mpt> but yeah, I guess it would need to be copied into Ubiquity too
<mterry> mpt, ah.  Well, if it helps, I'd be glad to work with you and flesh out what how you'd want DD to operate in such a mode.  But for 12.04, the schedule would be tight, since it'd be new work
<mpt> yeah
<mpt> No good saving a backup if people are incapable of booting the machine to restore from it
<mpt> (for example)
<mterry> mpt, yeah, I have this wishlist item from way back for DD to allow the user to create a boot thumb drive that had their backup settings baked in (minus password of course)
<mterry> That would be neat.  But never implemented
<mpt> Hey and471, long time no see
<and471> mpt, hiya
<jbicha> ooh, jcastro wants to kill CCSM https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2012-January/003597.html
<mpt> mterry, I think for now I'll just do a sketch of how it might look, and put it on the SoftwareUpdates wiki page (or a page split off from that)
<mpt> Implementation can wait for later :-)
<didrocks> ok, going to some python meeting, see you tomorrow guys!
<DBO> seb128, who do I have to make love to in order to get this: https://launchpad.net/~raof/+archive/help-jason/+packages into Ubuntu?
<kenvandine> DBO, i would guess RAOF
<BigWhale> Am I missing something or there really is no way of getting the number of items in the Gtk.Combobox?! (beside iterating through all of them and count)
<seb128> DBO, seems like RAOF would be a good candidate ;-)
<DBO> ya but I imagine I need to grease the palms of his boss
<seb128> why, is that a controversial change?
<DBO> it increments the version of XFixes...
<DBO> other than that no
<micahg> seb128: has anyone started talking to Debian about supported versions of vala for precise/wheezy, Ubuntu currently has 3 in main and 1 in universe, and Debian has 3 (no 0.16)
<seb128> micahg, it's being worked
<seb128> micahg, mbiebl said he would work on dropping the old version in Debian soon
<seb128> we aim at dropping at lest 0.10 and 0.12 from main in precise
<micahg> ok, I think we only have 4 rdeps on vala-0.10 in precise
<micahg> 0.10 is already in universe for precise
<seb128> DBO, well I guess it's a call for RAOF to do still, I doubt his boss cares about such technical details
<seb128> micahg, I wouldn't bother with that, Debian will fix them and we can sync
<micahg> seb128: right, that's why I was wondering if it's been coordinated ;)
<DBO> seb128, awesome
<seb128> micahg, not really, I've to admit I care little for universe having rdepends on old vala version, we can drop the old cruft if they are not ported at the end of the cycle
<micahg> I meant that if Debian is preparing to drop stuff, bugs will be filed and maintainers will fix
<seb128> right
<desrt> BigWhale: you're missing something
<desrt> gtk_tree_model_iter_n_children (gtk_combo_box_get_model (combo), NULL);
<BigWhale> desrt, this just feels wrong ... somehow
<desrt> BigWhale: a gtkcombobox is just a different kind of treeview....
<rodrigo_> wow, my 3g modem wrks like a charm with network manager on a clean install
<rodrigo_> I could only make it work with wvdial before
 * rodrigo_ sould do clean installs more often
<ricotz> rodrigo_, hello, was there a plan to implement/patch in some specific interfaces of systemd in accountsservice?
<rodrigo_> ricotz, hmm, not that I recall
<rodrigo_> ricotz, iirc, we talked about adding some locale-related methods to accountsservice
<rodrigo_> but that was for setting individual users' settings, iirc
<rodrigo_> GunnarHJ should remember better :)
<ricotz> rodrigo_, ok, i might remember it wrong then
<ricotz> rodrigo_, i see i am struggling a bit with the systemd deps introduced in g-c-c
<rodrigo_> ricotz, you just need to provide the datetime dbus interface in, for instance, ubuntu-system-service
<rodrigo_> that's where the other systemd dbus interfaces are
<ricotz> rodrigo_, right, ah u-s-s was it then
<rodrigo_> ah yes
<rodrigo_> ricotz, u-s-s already has all the other systemd interfaces used in g-c-c
<rodrigo_> so just add datetimed there
<rodrigo_> ricotz, are you packaging the whole of 3.3/3.4?
<ricotz> rodrigo_, great, so datetime isnt there yet
<desrt> ronoc: okay.  that glib fix is in.
<seb128> rodrigo_, we have most in precise, we lack only a few components
<rodrigo_> yeah, wasn't been used when I wrote the other systemd interfaces
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, cool
<ricotz> rodrigo_, not the whole, i guess only the missing too risky things
<ronoc> desrt, nice one !
<ricotz> seb128, hi, is datetime provided yet?
<seb128> ricotz, no, patches are welcome ;-)
<seb128> ricotz, we don't plan to update g-c-c in precise so we don't need it this cycle
<ricotz> seb128, hehe ;)
<ricotz> i guess it will be needed next cycle then
<seb128> ricotz, yeah, likely
<seb128> but still you are welcome to work on it this cycle and get something working for your ppa and for Ubuntu next cycle ;-)
<ricotz> seb128, it already works fine (while reverting some specific changes)
<seb128> ricotz, :-(
<seb128> ricotz, would help you and Ubuntu to go forward and fix the issue rather than roll back commits
<ricotz> but having this service would make it work without patching though ;)
<seb128> well your call
<seb128> but it's still we would welcome some contributions to Ubuntu ;-)
<ricotz> i know ;)
<achiang> kenvandine: ping. i'm not sure what happened, but i have recently noticed that making SIP calls in empathy works again
<kenvandine> cool :)
<achiang> kenvandine: so i guess if you have open bugs there... they could be closed?
<kenvandine> i'll check
<kenvandine> thx
<achiang> kenvandine: cheers
<desrt> today is a good day
<desrt> all of the world-is-exploding-issues are suddenly solved
<desrt> even jhbuild is happy today
<dobey> is there really no way to trap an error from g_variant_get() given that it doesn't take a GError as an argument?
<desrt> dobey: there's a relatively easy way: don't make errors
<desrt> if you're using g_variant_get() in a way that could possibly result in an error then either you didn't read the docs or you're doing something very very worrying
<dobey> that's great and all. but you see, when other people write programs that expose an API on dbus that I have to use, and they go and break that API, and then I have to support both versions of the API, I need to trap an error and fall back to the other type.
<desrt> dobey: you know that g_variant_is_of_type() exists, right?
<dobey> no
<desrt> it does.
<dobey> and it isn't helpful
<desrt> why not?
<dobey> oh, maybe i can use it, but ugh. even more code
<desrt> you'd rather catch a GError, clear it and try again with a second call than just do a very simple if() statement first in order to decide which g_variant_get() to do in the first place?
<dobey> i'd rather people not break their bloody apis
<desrt> i agree with you that it's annoying to have to do the check manually... that's why i added the reply_type argument to g_dbus_connection_call() (and friendS)
<desrt> but in your case you've been screwed by the person implementing the interface
<desrt> all things considered, this is a pretty damn easy way to deal with that
<dobey> sure. i can also make the person who broke the interface buy me beer.
<dobey> ugh. G_VARIANT_TYPE() is a bit different from the norm as G_FOO things go
<desrt> dobey: is there anything that you don't complain about?
<kenvandine> desrt, nope :)
<desrt> ugh.
<dobey> i'm not complaining. i'm stating a fact.
<desrt> "ugh." turns it into a complaint
<kenvandine> makes it fun to have dobey around
<dobey> kenvandine: btw my gwibber branch seems to sort-of work, but not quite, now. it's not reading existing accounts on startup of gwibber-accounts, and gtk3 broke some layout stuff
<kenvandine> progress though! :)
<kenvandine> so the keyring stuff seems to work?
<dobey> well, the one gobject complaint i was getting before is gone, at least
<dobey> i presume it's not working working though, as it has no accounts listed :)
<kenvandine> heeh
<kenvandine> it should get that via a dbus call to the service
<dobey> yeah, they were showing up before i changed to the gir keyring
<kenvandine> dobey, btw... i had removed that threading.Thread stuff from the service... but i think i need to add it back
<kenvandine> oh, i bet when it lists accounts it checks the keyring
<dobey> yeah
<dobey> but it's not dumping anything on the console
<kenvandine> weird
<dobey> yeah
<dobey> and gwibber-service doesn't seem to be updating the feeds either
<kenvandine> because it isn't getting any accounts
<dobey> right
<dobey> i wish it would tell me why though
<dobey> it's sort of acting like it's deadlocked. but it obviously isn't
<desrt> seb128: do you know if/when ubuntu will get udisks2?
<seb128> desrt, it will, dunno when
<seb128> desrt, pitti said that he's putting it on his todolist to get it in debian experimental (he usually does that and sync to ubuntu), but I don't think it was top of his list
<seb128> desrt, so in the next few weeks I guess
<seb128> desrt, check with him tomorrow, is there any need for it?
<desrt> seb128: gnome depends on it
<desrt> gnome-disk-utility specifically
<seb128> desrt, isn't jbuild building it for you if you want the new gdu?
<desrt> you can write the d-d-l email this time :)
<desrt> no.  it's not, actually
<seb128> desrt, that was discussed on d-d-l this week, davidz say that distro can say on 2.32
<desrt> kinda annoying
<seb128> desrt, gvfs has a new udisk2 monitors so it's not an hard requirement
<seb128> you can still keep using the udisk1 monitor
<seb128> desrt, there were some discussion on #gnome-hackers about adding udisk2, I think jjardon asked about that
<desrt> seb128: gnome-disk-utility is failing ./configure
<desrt> configure: error: Package requirements (udisks2 >= 1.90.0) were not met:
<seb128> talk to jjardon ;-)
<desrt> jjardon: hey :)
<seb128> he was looking at fixing the jhbuild case, davidz recommend to either stay on gdu 2.32 or to add udisk2 to jhbuild
<jjardon> desrt: hey! yeah the recommendation is to use the packaged udisk2 version, because is a system daemon
<jjardon> davidz suggested to build only libudisks2 from udisks2 in jhbuild and install that ... that way at least gnome-disks-utility can build but it probably won't run very well unless you have the runtime (udisks2 daemon, new kernel, new udev etc etc)
<jjardon> note that udisks2 requires kernel >= 3.1
<desrt> jjardon: that's fine.  3.2 here.
<desrt> jjardon: fwiw, nss is also breaking because it seems to want to be explicitly ported between each minor linux release version (2.4, 2.6 okay... 3.1, 3.2?  not so good).
<micahg> desrt: I thought that was fixed recently
<BigWhale> Cat turned off my computer ... :/
<desrt> micahg: perhaps it was, but not in the version that jhbuild is downloading...
<micahg> I think it might have been fixed in NSS 3.
<micahg> 3.12.11
<micahg> no, later, I'm actually not sure
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-01-27
<micahg> dobey: so, are there no more cil bindings for ubuntu one?
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> desrt: ayan wanted to look into packaging it; I'll ping him and take over if he doesn't have time
<desrt> pitti: that would be very awesome :)
<pitti> since the last time I looked at it, the test suite now shows a fair number of regressions
<pitti> so it'll need some work again
<pitti> but that doesn't block us from packaging it, of course
<desrt> pitti: did you see the mails on the distributor list?
<pitti> desrt: yes, I read the thread
 * desrt was happy to see them but a bit disappointed in the tone
<smspillaz> pitti: do you know if its possible to override the vendor LDFLAGS in a package ?
<smspillaz> -Bsymbolic-functions is causing problems for us
<BigWhale> Good Morning
<pitti> smspillaz: if the upstream build system unconditionally sets it, then no; we  usually add a patch to drop it from Makefile.{am,in}
<pitti> smspillaz: more polite build systems do something like LDFLAGS?=, then you can set it in debian/rules
<smspillaz> pitti: oh as in, the debian default flags contains -BsymbolicFunctions
<smspillaz> err
<smspillaz> pitti: oh as in, the debian default flags contains -Bsymbolic-functions
<smspillaz> so I need to remove that from the debian flags
<smspillaz> (but only for compiz)
<pitti> smspillaz: ah yes, you can change that in debian/rules
<smspillaz> pitti: cool. what is the flag to do it. I tried DEB_LDFLAGS_MAINT_OPTIONS=foo but that didn't work
<smspillaz> err I think it was
<pitti> smspillaz: export LDFLAGS= ... should work
<smspillaz> DEB_LDFLAGS_MAINT_STRIP
<smspillaz> ok, thanks!
<pitti> there shouldn't be any particular magic
<pitti> if it's not set, dpkg passes it in as default environment variable, but you should be able to override it normally
<smspillaz> pitti: thanks!
<smspillaz> that works :)
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> guten mornen pitti
<pitti> chrisccoulson: bug 857153 is "fix committed" for ages now, and "fix released" upstream, but neither seems to have landed in firefox 9 or 10; is that actually on track still?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 857153 in firefox "Needs to get accessibility settings from GSettings" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857153
<seb128> hey
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts? ;-)
<pitti> gut, danke!
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<seb128> lut didrocks
<pitti> rodrigo_: got g-c-c built in jhbuild now, but I don't see the region panel at all; I guess I'm missing some more bits in jhbuild?
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti
<chrisccoulson> yes, that fix is in aurora (firefox 11)
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning
<chrisccoulson> good morning :)
<chrisccoulson> and aurora moves to beta next week
<chrisccoulson> which means it will be in precise next week if i decide we stay on the beta for another 6 weeks
<seb128> pitti, did you build from trunk?
<pitti> seb128: yes
<pitti> master for now, will switch to the wip/ branch in a bit
<seb128> pitti, well you should have the normal region panel, but not rodrigo's changes
<pitti> but I first wanted to see what's in master
<pitti> I don't
<pitti> in "personal" I just have brightness/lock, background, and online accounts
<pitti> I do have libregion.so
<pitti> ** WARNING **: Could not find settings panel "region"
<pitti> ** WARNING **: Could not load setting panel "region": Unknown error
<pitti> I suppose I need an additional module in jhbuild
<seb128> weird
<seb128> strace if and see if it tries to load the jhbuild or system one?
<chrisccoulson> mmmmm, coffee
<chrisccoulson> i so need that this morning
<seb128> pitti, you can use "XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=GNOME gnome-control-center region" on the Ubuntu package to see it
<pitti> 8539  open("/home/martin-scratch/gnome/lib64/control-center-1/panels/libregion.so", O_RDONLY) = 8
<pitti> seems fine
<pitti> seb128: hah, thanks
<pitti> seb128: XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=GNOME jhbuild run gnome-control-center region
<pitti> that was it
<pitti> seems upstream only shows it in GNOME?
<pitti> shell has a lot more now, too
<pitti> now it just complains about invalid locales
<seb128> pitti, it's using the .desktop files
<seb128> pitti, so look at gnome-region-panel.desktop OnlyShowIn
<pitti> seb128: right
<seb128> right, region has GNOME only, not Unity
<pitti> building rodrigo's branch now
<pitti> meh, doesn't build due to wacom stuff
<pitti> master does
<seb128> pitti, you can probably hack the wacom dir out from the makefile or configure
<seb128> pitti, I guess he didn't merge back the changes from trunk
<pitti> I just merged trunk, builds now
<pitti> I don't really block on this yet, I can implement the WhatProvides in aptdaemon with just testing through a gdbus call
<pitti> but I'm curious nevertheless :)
<glatzor> hello pitti, seb128 and mvo
<pitti> hallo glatzor, wie gehts?
<seb128> hey glatzor
<glatzor> pitti, what happened to the work of rodrigo?
<glatzor> pitti, fine. thanks
<pitti> glatzor: he's still on it
<pitti> glatzor: yesterday I finished the work on the language_support_pkgs.py logic and the aptdaemon plugin
<glatzor> pitti, how are you?
<pitti> glatzor: (which BTW works wonderfully! thanks for this ingenious plugin mechanism!)
<glatzor> pitti, yeah. I have seen it. great work
<pitti> glatzor: and today I wanted to start working on implementing WhatProvides in the aptdaemon PK compat layer
<pitti> glatzor: would it be OK for you to do something liek
<pitti> try:
<pitti>    import language_support_pkgs
<pitti> except:
<pitti>    <raise not implemented error, as we do now>
<pitti> glatzor: then this would work for Ubuntu, and not change any behaviour in Debian
<glatzor> pitti, liek?
<pitti> glatzor: or would it be relatively easy to add plugin support for WhatProvides?
<pitti> glatzor: there is an existing PK_PROVIDES_ENUM_MODALIAS, whic we coudl also implement easily
<pitti> and we want to add a new PK_PROVIDES_ENUM_LANGUAGE_SUPPORT for this
<pitti> glatzor: s/liek/like/, sorry :)
<glatzor> pitti, rodrigo pushes the work to packagekit?
<pitti> glatzor: he was going to, yes; it's just adding the new enum for now
<glatzor> pitti. it is ok. getting a reference implementation in the python apt backend of plugin should be easy too
<pitti> glatzor: I'm more concerned how to integrate this into WhatProvides in aptdaemon now
<glatzor> pitti, the whatprovides method hasn't been implemented yet since it wasn't required.
<pitti> glatzor: right, it's just saying "not implemented" right now
<glatzor> pitti, sessioninstaller does a better job. since it set a priorities to found packages
<pitti> glatzor: but control-center can make use of WhatProvides "language-support" soon, and if we want to replace jockey in one of the next releases, having WhatProvides Modalias is handy, too
<glatzor> pitti, it should be easy
<pitti> glatzor: but that's session d-bus?
<pitti> glatzor: the "easy" part is not the problem, it's the "ugly" for the try/except ImportError
<pitti> glatzor: if what-provides could grow similar plugin support as cacheModifyAfter, we wouldn't need to "clutter" aptdaemon with code that uses language_support_pkgs.py or knowledge how dh-modalias adds the Modalias: headers to packages, etc.
<glatzor> pitti, it is ok to go for the try/import approach. youjust have to raise a sane error in the case that it isn't available
<pitti> glatzor: but if you don't like that, I'm happy to do the opportunistic import of language_support_pkgs if you agree
<pitti> glatzor: it'd just continue to do self._fail_not_implemented, like it does now
<glatzor> pitti, so aptdaemon.plugins.whatprovides_modalias ?
<pitti> or whatprovides.<enum value>, but it doesn't really matter I guess
<glatzor> pitti, right
<pitti> glatzor: I'm not sure whether this stuff would be better as a plugin or in the core code
<glatzor> pitti, having a plugin would allow to reuse the code easily in packagekit
<pitti> glatzor: and I could keep both plugins in language-selector-common (or whereever it ends up later on)
<glatzor> pitti, perhaps we could even thing about naming the plugins packagekit.backend.apt.plugins.whatprovides.modlias or something similar
<glatzor> pitti, in the end you need a backend in packagekit which can handle the new functionality
<glatzor> pitti, one of the reasons I revived the old python apt backend
<pitti> glatzor: ah, so aptdaemon/pkcompat.py shouldn't implement it directly, but call a corresponding method in aptdaemon backend; and that would be the place to put the plugin or the code then?
<glatzor> pitti, right. the apt backend of packagekit and aptdaemon would share the same plugins
<seb128> didrocks, bug #922299 is for you
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 922299 in gnome-control-center "Mouse-wheeling "Launcher icon size" slider moves it the wrong way." [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922299
<glatzor> pitti, It would be a nice gesture to use the packagekit naming for the plugins
<pitti> glatzor: the PK_PROVIDES_ENUM_* names, you mean? yes
<didrocks> seb128: oh, interesting, please assign it to me if not already done :)
<glatzor> pitti, it feels strange to promote changes to packagekit referring to aptdaemon.plugins :)
<seb128> didrocks, done
<glatzor> pitti, no. just the plugin names
<didrocks> seb128: thanks
<seb128> didrocks, thank you! ;-)
<pitti> glatzor: how do you mean? the only change that we propose to PK itself is the addition of a new provides enum for LANGUAGE_SUPPORT
<pitti> glatzor: I don't actually want to implement it in PK
<pitti> glatzor: I think if we are going to land the control-center bits, we'll install python-aptdaemon.pkcompat, not packagekit?
<glatzor> pitti, That is why I would reject your changes to packagekit (if I am the packagekit maintainer)
<pitti> glatzor: rodrigo sayd yesterday that hughsie wouldn't mind adding the enum
<glatzor> pitti, it feels strange to push changes to the reference implementation that cannot be used by it
<pitti> glatzor: so, going back a step, what would you recommend instead?
<pitti> glatzor: after all, most of the possible what-provides enums are not implemented in most backends
<pitti> glatzor: anyway, it's relatively easy to implement it in packagekit itself, too
<pitti> glatzor: so we could do (1) a packagekit patch which adds the enum and an apt backend implementation
<pitti> glatzor: and (2) an aptdaemon patch which also implements this UI through a plugin
<pitti> s/UI/API/
<glatzor> pitti, right. and both aptdaemon and packagekit apt backend could share the same plugin.
<pitti> glatzor: oh, packagekit has plugins, too?
<glatzor> glatzor, oh. packagekit itself has got a plugin mechanism. But I would just add the same small plugin loading feature of aptdaemon to the apt backend of packagekit
<glatzor> pitti,  you would just need the cache and the search string in plugin method? and return a list of apt.package.Packages
<pitti> glatzor: right
<pitti> glatzor: ok, I'll start with the PK patch then
<glatzor> pitti, the enum one or also the plugin loading mechanism in the apt backend?
<pitti> glatzor: both
<pitti> glatzor: oh, not sure about plugin loading
<pitti> need to figure out how that works
<glatzor> pitti, so I can write the plugin mechanism at the weekend since I am on a train ride
<pitti> as a first PoC it could just try: import language_support_pkg
<mandel> any xorg expert aorung here whose brain I could poke?
<pitti> glatzor: ah, just saw that implementing it in aptcc is tricky, as my library is in Python; we could call check-language-support, but that takes some more time
<pitti> glatzor: aptcc is still our preferred backend, right?
<mandel> pitti, have you guys seen this before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8Akda59yQI&feature=plcp&context=C3a6464bUDOEgsToPDskL-qb9lDdv7vlUubOt581D-
<mandel> sorry for the scanner sound in the background..
<mandel> more iteresting details, lightdm does not work correctly and I can just login as a guest, once a guest I can do su mandel and work as usual from the terminal
<glatzor> pitti, no. the python apt backend is the cool one :)
<glatzor> pitti, it is also the one with a test suite :)
<pitti> glatzor: ah, I see, thanks
<dobey> micahg: that's correct, for the time being.
<chrisccoulson> crash reporter, why u no workee?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it can haz cookie?
<desrt> dobey: hey.  you get your problem sorted yesterday?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i eated the cookies already
<pitti> chrisccoulson: "eated" is too credible an error; you need to break the grammar more, c'mon, you can do it!
<chrisccoulson> heh
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I suppose it's mozilla's crash reporter, not apport?
<desrt> pitti: he munged ya bizkitzz
<dobey> desrt: the one with the changed interface, yeah
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah
<pitti> dobey: hungry it must be
<pitti> err, desrt
<chrisccoulson> i'm just wondering why the symbols for glib aren't being resolved, even though i'm building and submitting symbols for it now: https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/index/bp-ce02a26a-f396-490b-ae78-6eac62120127
<pitti> glatzor, mvo: hm, packagekit seems to assume that app-install-data generates /var/lib/PackageKit/mime-map.gdbm, but it doesn't?
<pitti> shoudl that be fixed, or should packagekit stop bombing out if it doesn't exist?
<mvo> stop bombing - we don't do this since a long time
<glatzor> pitti, the old apt backend code of what provides is just a piece of copy and paste from the old backend. it is quite old code
<pitti> glatzor: ok, I'll stop bombing then
<pitti> glatzor: and also implement what-provides ANY support, so that pkcon what-provides works
<glatzor> pitti, I should perhaps make the code to find mime types and codecs in sessioninstaller more generic and also convert them into plugins
<glatzor> pitti, mvo have a nice day! i am off
<pitti> glatzor: and you, thanks for everything!
<hallyn> i'm using the HUD ppa - but the launcher autohide has changed behavior?  if i have a fullscreened app and a small terminal, when the terminal is focused the launcher shows
<hallyn> is that deemed a bug, or a new feature?
<hallyn> (i'd call it a bug...  keeps me reading everything on my fullscreen browser)
<micahg> chrisccoulson: I think I'd prefer if precise stayed on Beta through 11, that gives us about 12 weeks on the 11 code base to find any issues before release
<seb128> mdeslaur, hey
<seb128> mdeslaur, do you plan to do any work on the screen locking this case? i.e dropping your g-s-d patch to "always lock screen without respecting the user setting"?
<mdeslaur> seb128: I was under the impression we were switching to locking with lightdm
<mdeslaur> seb128: what was the issue? for people who autologin?
<mvo> seb128: re the new webkit any idea about #922652
<Daviey> Ugh, HUD seems to be stealing alt+a .. How can i change that?
<desrt> seb128: can you change the status on https://bugs.launchpad.net/intltool/+bug/580526 ?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 580526 in intltool "Add support for new gsettings simple schema format" [High,Fix released]
<Daviey> oddly, not all the time.
<seb128> mdeslaur, different sort of user who don't want to have to be bothered typing a password, i.e people using a netwook for browsing and suspend it
<mdeslaur> seb128: so I should check if they auto login?
<seb128> desrt, no, I'm not an intltool dev, dobey can
<seb128> bug #922652
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 922652 in webkit "Sorting out a11y in Software-center I hit the following webkit error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922652
<desrt> dobey: poke
<seb128> mvo, I hate code :p
<desrt> dobey: did you see https://bugs.launchpad.net/intltool/+bug/580526 ?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 580526 in intltool "Add support for new gsettings simple schema format" [High,Fix released]
<seb128> mvo, without a stacktrace no clue no
<dobey> desrt: it says fix released?
<desrt> dobey: yes.  the status should be changed.
<desrt> the patch that i submitted was rewritten, breaking it
<seb128> mdeslaur, not sure, why do you enforce the locking to start? did we have any issue letting the indicator or gnome-settings-daemon lock when needed?
<desrt> and the release was made with a broken 'fix'
<mdeslaur> seb128: that was the issue, if you turn off the automatic lock after timeout, it wouldn't lock when you suspended either
<seb128> mdeslaur, well maybe the option should be "don't lock the screen for me" ;-)
<seb128> mdeslaur, is that the wording which is confusing?
<mdeslaur> seb128: no, it's the setting that's stupid...turning off the automatic screensaver shouldn't turn off a password prompt when you suspend
<seb128> mdeslaur, that setting has nothing to do with screensaver
<mdeslaur> seb128: unless you're configured to autologin, in which case my patch is wrong
<seb128> mdeslaur, we don't have screensavers anymore, we just have locking
<mdeslaur> seb128: sorry, I meant turning off the auto screen lock shouldn't turn off the password prompt when you suspend
<dobey> desrt: i guess you need to talk to danilo then.
<seb128> mdeslaur, well that's why I suggest renaming the option "lock the screen for me", which is what it does actually
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<desrt> dobey: does he even irc anymore?
<dobey> yes
<seb128> mdeslaur, in fact the widget is below "locking"
<dobey> desrt: as danilos
<desrt> he's on gnome irc as 'danilo'.  odd.
<mdeslaur> seb128: I'm not sure what you're asking me. Removing the patch doesn't make sense. Fixing the patch to check the autologin configuration makes sense.
<mterry> kenvandine, heyo.  Do you have any good "make gtk animations run smooth" tips from gwibber?
<seb128> mdeslaur, ok, I guess autologin would fix most of the cases
<kenvandine> not really... njpatel worked that magic
<seb128> mdeslaur, I still think the ui is confusing, the option should rather be labelled "never automatically lock the screen" or something
<mdeslaur> seb128: ie: I want to turn off automatic screen locking because I often watch movies or give presentations, but I still want a password when I suspend and resume
<seb128> mdeslaur, the presentations or video player should inhibit locking, that seems orthogonal cases
<mdeslaur> seb128: let me think of the scenarios, and I'll write up a wiki page with them
<seb128> mdeslaur, thanks, maybe check with mpt, I think he said he would look at the scenarios as well
<mdeslaur> seb128: well, what's the use case of letting people turn off screen locking then?
<seb128> mdeslaur, well, let's say you have a netbook you let around in your living room for easy internet browsing (sort of table usecase nowadays), why should you be bothered typing password on resume?
<mdeslaur> mpt: If you're looking at the screen locking / login password scenarios, I'd like to help
<seb128> mdeslaur, but agreed, those users will often have autologin set as well
<mdeslaur> seb128: so, you want a password on login, but not on resume?
<mdeslaur> seb128: seems inconsistent to me
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have packaged cups-filters now but have some problems. It seems not to respect binary-post-install/<binary package>:: rules in debian/rules.
<seb128> mdeslaur, no, in practice I think matching autologin should be fixing most of the cases where people are annoyed by the "always locking" we do currently
<elvisd> Hi all,
<seb128> hi elvisd
<dobey> that was odd
<elvisd> is there a PPA with latest version of ambiance theme?
<tkamppeter> pitti, so I do not get a libcupsfilters1-dev package as "make install" does not install the dev files and I have to do it in debian/rules (will polish it upstream later).
<elvisd> for Precise, i mean
<tkamppeter> pitti, I mail you the package.
<mdeslaur> seb128: ok, let me think about it and take a look
<seb128> elvisd, no, the current versions are pretty much in precise itself
<pitti> tkamppeter: ok; NB that I have release meeting now, so it might be a bit
<elvisd> cause there are some bugs
<RainCT> seb128: Hey. Just uploaded Zeitgeist alpha 2 to experimental :)
<seb128> mdeslaur, having an usecase matrix would help, it might turn out that respecting autologing is good enough
<pitti> tkamppeter: but you shoudn't use such rules if it can be avoided
<seb128> RainCT, hey
<elvisd> seb128, ok, thanx
<seb128> didrocks, ^ you were on the zg case right? ;-)
<mdeslaur> seb128: yeah, I'll talk to mpt and see if we can start by doing that
<pitti> tkamppeter: have "make install" install into debian/tmp/, and then have debian/pkgname.install files to install the bits that you want for that binary
<RainCT> seb128: err yeah that was for didrocks, sorry.. :P
<didrocks> RainCT: awesome! did you get my message through mhr3 about the Replaces: ?
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have overtaken debian/rules from cups and then edited it. It does "make install" install into debian/tmp/,
<didrocks> RainCT: it's quite late to sync today from experimental though, not sure if it will be before or post alpha2 then ;)
<mpt> mdeslaur, great, I started writing <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SessionHandling>
<mpt> mdeslaur, if there are any existing problems not yet described there, please add them
<mdeslaur> mpt: ah, cool, let me catch up to that, and I'll let you know
<RainCT> didrocks: Yeah, python-zeitgeist has Replaces and Breaks
<RainCT> didrocks: I can mail you the files if you prefer uploading it now
<RainCT> well it's in bzr too anyway
<didrocks> RainCT: no, I think that can wait anyway, not found of syncing stuff before leaving :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/index/bp-0e092710-dce1-4f62-b356-a05592120127
<chrisccoulson> symbols \o/
<RainCT> okay :)
<didrocks> RainCT: but thanks for the heads up, let's see when the freeze will be on Monday morning :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yay, what changed?
<tkamppeter> pitti, package sent to you by mail. Problems are: binary-post-install/cups:: and binary-post-install/libcups2-dev:: in debian/rules not executed, therefore cups-filters package imcomplete and libcupsfilters1-dev without non-doc files; cups-filters-dbg contains only strange files, seems incomplete.
<chrisccoulson> pitti - our symbols weren't being sync'd to the right place because the index file i was creating was named incorrectly
<chrisccoulson> that was it ;)
<pitti> tkamppeter: well, your package certainly doesn't build "cups" and "libcups2-dev" binaries?
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks, now I see that this I forgot to edit ...
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you should probably drop the w.i you have to look at the elementary calendar and help them if possible I doubt that it will happen this cycle
<jibel> pitti, about test_lts_upgrade_user.py, I believe it requires autologin to be fixed first because gsettings-data-convert is called on login ?
<pitti> jibel: yes
<pitti> jibel: ah, I see
<jibel> pitti, is it valid is I run gsettings-data-convert as user ubuntu in the setup of the test instead of relying on autologin ?
<pitti> jibel: so it doesn't actually start a desktop session yet after the upgrade?
<pitti> jibel: it should be; but if you want to hack it, I'd rather sed /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf and set autologin-user=ubuntu
<jibel> pitti, no, because it's doing it with autologin and it is not preserved on upgade
<pitti> until it's fixed in the packages
<jibel> *upgrade
<seb128> mdeslaur, I assigned you bug #869765
<pitti> jibel: i. e. run the test_system.py first (so that it fails), then sed lightdm.conf, then have it start the session and run the user test?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 869765 in gnome-settings-daemon "Screen locked on lid close, suspend, user switch" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/869765
<pitti> jibel: I'll open the migration bug, I'll try to fix it on Monday
<jibel> pitti, ok, i'll do that
<seb128> mdeslaur, feel free to consider it as a "should not lock the screen when autologin is used"
<mdeslaur> seb128: thanks, I'll take a look
<seb128> pitti, open a bug about what?
<pitti> jibel: hm, I was sure there was an existing bug for this already
<pitti> seb128: I mean open a tab for that bug, for me as a reminder
<seb128> ok
<pitti> jibel: ah, bug 854431 ?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 854431 in lightdm "GDM automatic login is not transitioned to lightdm automatic login" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854431
<jibel> pitti, bug 854431
<jibel> :)
<pitti> mvo: question; bug 850264 is marked for alpha-2; is that realistic to land by Monday, or should we postpone it?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 850264 in apt "given a foreign architecture of i386 on amd64 machine, and an outdated libc, apt tries to remove libc-bin" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850264
<tkamppeter> pitti, now it seems all to work. I will send you another version and have only 2 doubts left:
<tkamppeter> pitti: 1. The strange content of cups-filters-dbg
<tkamppeter> pitti: 2. Whether I put the correct Replaces/Conflicts/Breaks into cups-filters so that on an update the right thing happens.
<mdeslaur> seb128: out of curiosity, on what kind of hardware were you still seeing the bug with user switching and fading?
<seb128> mdeslaur, my e6410 (dell latitude i5 with ssd, intel video)
<seb128> mdeslaur, I got it during the rally
<mdeslaur> seb128: huh, ok, thanks
<mvo> seb128: I will ask for a stacktrace
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<mvo> pitti: good question, its ready, but slangasek ran into a upgrade bug using it which we currently have no idea about
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have mailed you the corrected cups-filters package.
<tkamppeter> pitti, another mail with a small correction ...
<dobey> man, apport is completely useless sometimes
<pitti> tkamppeter: replied to the mail with some bits
<pitti> tkamppeter: it could also be that the .build-id stuff is just a new way of doing things; I have heard about it, but never saw it in a Debian/Ubuntu package yet
<pitti> tkamppeter: do we really still need this "sed" call on cupsfilters.convs in debian/rules? sholdn't this just be done upstream now?
<pitti> tkamppeter: also, theh install call for the .ppd can just become an entry in cups-filters.examples
<pitti> good night everyone!
<seb128> 'night pitti, have a good w.e
<seb128> ok, that works
<seb128> time for some sport
<seb128> bbl
<mdeslaur> Is querying accountsservice the best way to determine if the currently logged in user has autologin configured?
<cyphermox> yay, I can actually use ibus in Unity 5.0.0 again :D
<dobey> anyone know if there is a way to make python-gi load from a specific typelib dir, as well as the system one?
<broder> dobey: ooh, i've done this...one sec
<broder> from gi.repository import GIRepository
<broder> GIRepository.Repository.get_default().prepend_search_path("/usr/lib/mutter")
<broder> then you can just do "from gi.repository import whatever"
<dobey> is there a way to do it without shoving that in the code?
<dobey> like an env var? :)
<broder> no idea
<dobey> ah ha!
<dobey> GI_TYPELIB_PATH
<dobey> thank you random wiki page on github
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-01-28
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<chrisccoulson> is scrolling broken for anybody else in precise? it's very erratic here
<popey> chrisccoulson: can you give specific examples
<chrisccoulson> popey - yeah, pretty much every time i attempt to use the edge scroll on my touchpad, it seems to initially fire off a load of scroll events in the wrong direction before it actually works
<chrisccoulson> so i end up in completely the wrong place ;)
<popey> ah actually
<popey> i have had erratic mouse scrolling yes
<popey> it goes too far in one direction
<popey> i keep having to go backwards
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i haven't tried my mouse yet, but it sounds like the same problem
<popey> e.g. browser scrolls too far down with one nudge of the wheel
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that sounds like what i'm seeing with my touchpad :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm glad i'm not going crazy
<popey> two finger scrolling doesnt seem bad though on my mbp
<popey> I only notice it on the mouse
<BigWhale> popey, chrisccoulson this is happening to me if I drag the scrollbar thingy up
<BigWhale> (but I think it is a bug in Kazam)
<BigWhale> oh wait ... it's not the scrollbar it's the volume button ...
<BigWhale> never mind
<popey> chrisccoulson: you filing a bug or investigating?
<chrisccoulson> popey, i was actually just thinking about going to buy some beer ;)
<popey> chrisccoulson: an excellent idea!
<chrisccoulson> ok, i'm a happy man now. just got 3 bottles of hardcore IPA :-)
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-01-29
<micahg> jbicha: did you not see my comments on the bug for the gparted merge?
<micahg> s/merge/sync
<micahg> I don't even see a bug for the request
<jbicha> micahg: no, which bug were you looking at? I was using bug 837213
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 837213 in gparted "[Sync Request] Fix NTFS resizing, please update Gparted from Debian" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837213
<micahg> bug 922654
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 922654 in gparted "please sync gparted 0.11.0-1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922654
<micahg> it didn't seem worthwhile to sync a new untested version for alpha2
<micahg> especially being in the live env
<micahg> jbicha: the stuff that's not on any images we have more leeway with, but the stuff on images, it's important to weight he decision to update a week before a release (alpha2 is next Thursday and we're frozen for stuff on images Mon at 21:00 UTC)
<ockham> hi, what's keeping this from being merged?  https://code.launchpad.net/~jconti/indicator-applet/gnome3/+merge/80877
<ockham> would be great to have it in precise...
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: You around?
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: yup
<ian__> Quick question - does anybody know where on the filesystem the list of startup applications is maintained?
<AfC> ian__: you might be looking for /etc/xdg/autostart
<dobey> in /etc/xdg/autostart and ~/.config/autostart, by default, for the stuff that's not hardcoded in gnome-session at least.
<AfC> but that's on a GNOME system.
<dobey> well autostart dir is used by KDE and XFCE too
<dobey> blackbox maybe not
<dobey> but this also isn't #kubuntu-desktop :)
<dobey> so i presume he means in the default ubuntu
<AfC> dobey: sure. I qualified it because I have no idea (or concern) for what Canonical's Unity is or isn't doing.
<dobey> unity uses gnome-session and is a compiz plug-in
<ian__> Here's my problem
<ian__> I have one user on 11.10 for whom the vino-server isn't running when that user logs in
<ian__> All the other users, vino-server is running
<ian__> Vino-server doesn't appear under the list of startup applications
<dobey> perhaps that user disabled it then
<dobey> check that user's ~/.config/autostart directory
<ian__> But there was a patch documented in the change-log that shows it was patched to HIDE it from startup applications
<ian__> OK -- I have a clean VM of Ubuntu here - and my user doesn't have an autostart directory in .config
<dobey> right
<dobey> disable something in startup applications, and you will, though
<ian__> So I need to know how is vino-server started?
<dobey> it is started via the autostart config
<ian__> And where's that?
<dobey> so that user which doesn't have it, probably disabled it before the patch was applied to hide it from the GUI
<ian__> I have a fresh install VM in front of me - not the computer that exhibits the problem
<dobey> so look in that user's ~/.config/autostart directory
<dobey> and remove the vino-server.desktop from that directory, and it will start again when that user logs in
<ian__> There isn't one on this machine
<ian__> And it's a clean 11.10 x64 install
<dobey> of course there isn't
<dobey> it's a clean install
<dobey> that user doesn't exist there
<dobey> you just said "this isn't the machine that exhibits the problem"
<ian__> That's right - I'm looking on the VM to find out where vino-server is started from for a user that doesn't exhibit the problem
<ian__> When I've found that out, I'll fix the faulty machine
<ian__> Sorry if I didn't make myself clear
<dobey> as i already told you, it's started by the xdg autostart configuration system
<dobey> by default, the file that causes it to be started on log-in is in /etc/xdg/autostart
<ian__> Ahh! I see - there's a file /etc/xdg/autostart/vino-server.desktop
<ian__> But isn't that file system level? i.e. Doesn't that file execute regardless of the user that logs on?
<dobey> yes
<dobey> unless, as i said, the user has diabled it previously, in which case a similar file will be in the user's ~/.config/autostart directory which disables it
<ian__> So if that's the case, how comes that on the faulty machine, I have ONE user login, after which once the login takes place, there's no vino-server process running?
<ian__> For all others, the vino-server process is visible?
<dobey> because that user disabled it at some point
<ian__> i.e. I have 3 users - 1 of which I can't control the desktop?
<ian__> All three have identical settings for remote desktop
<dobey> did you do what i said to do 10 minutes ago, yet?
<ian__> Hold on - I didn't understand - reading it again, you're telling me that the FAULTY user will have an autostart directory in .config
<ian__> Now I understand
<ian__> I have to go onto the faulty machine, log on as the faulty user and remove the file from the autostart folder created in .config
<dobey> yes
<ian__> Thanks - I'll check that out
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-01-21
<mitya57> Hey charles, can you please take a look at bug 958007 (or at least say what to blame â our patch or something else)?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 958007 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "First switching of the keyboard layout doesn't update the layout indicator" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/958007
<mitya57> I can reproduce it when opening something just after system start
<mitya57> (but not after that)
<pitti> Good morning
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, how are you? you're early
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i'm not too bad thanks. how are you? have you had snow over the weekend?
<chrisccoulson> we've had quite a bit here now :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hah, plenty :) we've had lots of snow since last week
<chrisccoulson> http://www.flickr.com/photos/67705534@N06/8394425637/
<pitti> cute!
<Laney> morning
<Laney> cliking hdd of doom
<Sweetsha1k> morning all.
<didrocks> good morning
<didrocks> mpt: hey! I have a request from bochecha_ to know if we have a similar kind of requirement for specific language ibus engine with our future keyboard indicator: https://live.gnome.org/AllanDay/IMEGuidelines, do you know if we have any?
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, not too bad thanks
<chrisccoulson> and you?
<mpt> didrocks, I don't know. As I understand it, options for an individual IME are usually accessed from a floating window, not from a menu.
<bochecha_> mpt: that depends
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: totally brain-damaged, will need today to be in a confortable timezone again ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: especially as yesterday was quite epic
<bochecha_> mpt: also, as I was telling didrocks, that page is not yet finished, it only includes the menu properties for now, but could include other aspects later on
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: Paris was completely under snow: https://plus.google.com/110419250019099644591/posts/H9swxQrSrTQ
<chrisccoulson> heh, nice ;)
<bochecha_> mpt: basically, I'm writing an ibus engine and I'd like it to integrate as well as possible in big desktops. I'm doing it for GNOME based on their recommendation (which are in fact evolving as we go through it), and if you have something similar for Unity then I could try to follow it :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: so delay to park, delay to get the luggage, andâ¦ train daily from Paris to Lyon
<didrocks> (3h40)
<mpt> bochecha_, my text entry menu design is at <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TextEntry>. If you could let me know anything that is missing or bad, that would be excellent. :-)
<chrisccoulson> i'm glad i've not had to travel anywhere ;)
<bochecha_> didrocks: 3h40 of delay... on a 2h trip? o_O
<bochecha_> mpt: will do :)
<mpt> ta
<didrocks> bochecha_: yep, the train arrived with 3h of delay already from Lille
<didrocks> (it's Lille -> Marseille which stops at the airport)
<bochecha_> mpt: "Each input source should have its own icon." what would be the size of the icon? also, is there a fallback? (I'm terrible at drawing icons or anything else, so I'm afraid I might not have one ready very soon)
<mpt> bochecha_, SVG, optimized for about 16*16
<bochecha_> (and gnome doesn't use an icon for the input source, so it's not really my main priority to be entirely honest)
<mpt> bochecha_, IBus has/had bitmap icons for each source
<bochecha_> well, it has for all engines which have one
<bochecha_> and I can tell you I haven't made an icon for my engine yet :)
<bochecha_> mpt: also, one thing I do not find in your guidelines page is how the settings ui for an input source can be started by the user
<mpt> bochecha_, again, I'm not really experienced with them myself, but from what I've seen, the floating window appears whenever the source is selected/reselected.
<bochecha_> so, input methods have two kinds of settings
<bochecha_> the properties, which can be changed from that floating popup (or in GNOME from the input source indicator), and are there because users frequently change them while typing
<bochecha_> and then, there are settings, which users will generally change once (or keep the defautl) according to their preferences, and then leave them as is
<bochecha_> these are in dedicated settings dialogs, e.g ibus-setup-cangjie
<bochecha_> my question was on the latter category: how should a Unity user run the settings dialog for an engine?
<mpt> I see
<mpt> bochecha_, is there a standard command for invoking the settings UI for an engine if there is one?
<bochecha_> not really
<bochecha_> GNOME Control Center finds a .desktop file with the same name as the engine
<bochecha_> and then runs the Exec= command
<mpt> That's the kind of standard I was meaning. :-)
<mpt> A way of telling whether to include a button for it or not.
<mpt> bbiab, meeting.
<bochecha_> mpt: I'll leave work soon, so I'll add here more details about how it works on gnome, so you can read it in the scrollback when you come back :)
<bochecha_> mpt: so let's take ibus-cangjie as an example. IBus knows it from its XML component file (/usr/share/ibus/component/cangjie.xml) which gives its "name" as "cangjie"
<bochecha_> mpt: so GNOME Control Center will search for /usr/share/applications/ibus-setup-$engine.desktop (following the ibus-cangjie example, that's ibus-setup-cangjie.desktop)
<bochecha_> it's as simple as this :)
<mhr3> didrocks, hey there, how are you doing?
<mhr3> read your g+ post, you should go via zurich next time, no delays there because of snow :)
<didrocks> mhr3: tired :)
<didrocks> mhr3: but arrived, which is the most important :)
<didrocks> mhr3: yeah, snow seems to be a suckfest if you include airport/train station/metro
<didrocks> all of the 3 were completely defective
<seb128> mhr3, hey, had a good flight back? I confirm the by Zurich one ;-)
<mhr3> seb128, yea, it was unusually un-eventful for my standards :)
<mhr3> we even arrived 20minutes before schedule
<didrocks> mhr3: nothing to put some salt in your trip? :)
<didrocks> come on, you have higher standards!
<mhr3> didrocks, right? i don't know how could everything go according to plans.. weird
<didrocks> heh
<mhr3> seb128, what about you? had fun waking up today?
<mhr3> i woke up at 3pm yesterday :P
<seb128> mhr3, no jetlag for me, but I slept from midnight to 11am today
<seb128> can't complain
<didrocks> waow, went to bed at 9pm for me, wake up at 10am ;)
<didrocks> still feeling slow, but functional :p
<seb128> the late plane works fine
<Laney> welcome back!
<didrocks> hey Laney, thanks!
<mhr3> seb128, although it would be better on the 1st class seats ;)
<seb128> the usual frankfurt one lands like at 6am, which doesn't let you time for sleeping well in the plane
<didrocks> seb128: did you stay a lot more under a sunny SFO?
<seb128> landing at 3pm lets you sleep
<seb128> didrocks, we went to the airport around 3pm
<didrocks> ok, did you walk a little before or stay at the same place?
<mhr3> i miss the california weather already, it's just snow and drizzle here
<didrocks> no snow here, as we have none in the """south""" of France :p
<mhr3> didrocks, just wait till wednesday
<didrocks> mhr3: yeah, seems so :)
<seb128> didrocks, we just stayed chatting at the terrasse in the sun for an hour or so and then went back
<didrocks> ok, nice ;)
<seb128> having a look around is easier without the bags
<didrocks> agreed
<seb128> it was a bit early at the airport for me, I still had to wait half an hour to be able to drop my bag and then I had 3 hours
<didrocks> well, the terrasse was a nice plan :)
<seb128> but it's ok, Florian still has a priority card, he let me in the lounge
<didrocks> urgh, yeah, quite long :/
<seb128> we got a beer there before he went for boarding
<didrocks> ah, this is before the security?
<seb128> no, just after
<seb128> but SFO has free wifi
<didrocks> so you did the security twice?
<didrocks> as you couldn't drop your bag
<seb128> no, I waited 30min reading emails to drop my bag
<didrocks> ok
<seb128> then I went through security
<seb128> then I had 3 hours that I spent at the lounge
<didrocks> yeah, in the lounge is fine :)
<seb128> but nice couchs, some beer and power
<seb128> can't complain ;-)
<didrocks> heh
<seb128> snacks as well
<didrocks> better than having to wait the same number of hours in a noisy freezing train station I guess :p
<didrocks> (without any available chair)
<didrocks> and almost no power to use your phone :p
<seb128> indeed
<Sweetshark> seb128: libreoffice4 review and upload would be awesome, Im only around for this week still.
<Sweetshark> *grumble*
<Sweetshark> didrocks: could you do a few rotations on the dynamo of sebs notebook, so that his wifi comes on again?
<didrocks> Sweetshark: we are not in SFO anymore, he's back on his weird connexion with unreliable network :)
<didrocks> Sweetshark: or maybe it's just a bug when you do mention "libreoffice" and review/sponsor in the same sentence
<didrocks> Sweetshark: try in two lines next time :p
 * Sweetshark sternly looks at didrocks as a deputy reviewer ...
<Sweetshark> thought so.
<didrocks> oh similar bug :p
 * Sweetshark nods: unconfirmed->new, priority: high
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> Sweetshark: more seriously, let's see what's on seb128's plate this week, I'm here for this week only as well. if he can't, I'll try to give a hand
<Sweetshark> didrocks: yup. To get everyone more confidence, drive as many victims^Wsheep^Wtesters to the prereleases ppa at: https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/libreoffice-prereleases/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=raring
<didrocks> maybe stgraber as he gave you a +0 on the per package upload rights should sponsor it, wdyt?
<didrocks> so that he can have some confidence in your uploads
<Laney> I believe bdrung explicitly offered to do that
<Laney> so you might want to ask him
<didrocks> Sweetshark: ^
<Laney> that would have highlighted :-)
<seb128> hum, IRC timeouted
<seb128> what's the discussion about? libreoffice?
<Laney> sponsoring it
<Sweetshark> bdrung, stgraber: yep, you are more than welcome to review the package changes at http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ubuntu-raring-4.0 .
<Sweetshark> bdrung, stgraber: package is currently waiting on chinstrap for upload/review, but I can move a copy to http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/ if needed.
<Sweetshark> 13:04 < Sweetshark> seb128: libreoffice4 review and upload would be awesome, Im only around for this week still.
<seb128> Sweetshark, put it on the people page, bdrung doesn't have access to chinstrap to review it
<seb128> Sweetshark, where are you after this week?
<Sweetshark> seb128: skiing for two weeks
<Sweetshark> in France ;)
<ogra_> but, but ..... they all speak french there !
<pitti> hey seb128, didrocks, comment allez-vous?
<pitti> got back home alright?
<davmor2> ogra_: did you get off at the wrong stop again?
<ogra_> heh, nope, just got back from shoveling the 30cm snow we had today
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va, mais lentement! returning was quite complicated as you saw on g+ due to the snow, otherwise, fine! :)
<didrocks> pitti: and you? how was your week?
<didrocks> Sweetshark: oh, were are you going to?
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, that's why I'm asking; that look out of the plane window looked scary
<pitti> didrocks: lots of snow here as well :) it was quite fine, thanks
<pitti> didrocks: did you get some good results?
<didrocks> pitti: it was, no more flight from Paris
<didrocks> metro stopped
<didrocks> and trains with 3h40 of delay
<didrocks> quite epic :)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I think we have some good decisions, now, just need to be able to execute them :)
<Sweetshark> didrocks: http://goo.gl/maps/nzcnV
<didrocks> Sweetshark: ah, famous station, I won't be very far next week :)
<Sweetshark> didrocks: really? were?
<didrocks> Sweetshark: http://goo.gl/NPhQI
<didrocks> urgh
<didrocks> so googl.gl fail :)
<didrocks> how do you have a /maps ones?
<didrocks> oh, there is a link button :)
<didrocks> http://goo.gl/maps/AfpS2
<Sweetshark> didrocks: oh, indeed not far. just far enough to make it unlikely we will meet on track ;)
<didrocks> Sweetshark: indeed :)
<didrocks> just one week of skiing here, but clearly enough for me :)
<Sweetshark> after one week, I only barely can drive again.
<seb128> Sweetshark, enjoy skiing!
<seb128> pitti, salut, I made it back alright, no issue with the planes, the tricky part was driving back from the airport yesterday evening, it was snowing and they said to be careful because of ice on the road
<seb128> pitti, but I've been driving slowly and made it back without issue
<pitti> seb128: indeed, we did a winter hike yesterday; some pavements were terribly slippery
<pitti> seb128: trÃ¨s bien
<Sweetshark> seb128: will do. they build a club med there last year, and this year I am determent to try the spa at least once. ;)
<seb128> nice
 * Sweetshark has to train his french again. There are distinct differences between french and etranger prices.
<didrocks> rohhhhh, this is FUD :p
<larsu> didrocks, seb128, hi! Did you make it home alright in the snow?
 * larsu reads scrollback and finds out they did :)
<pitti> "Combien pour cette massage de la nuque ?"
<didrocks> larsu: yeah, with some surprises, but at least, home!
<larsu> hi pitti, happy Monday!
<pitti> larsu: hey, wie gehts?
<larsu> pitti, sehr gut, danke
<larsu> didrocks, yeah, at least you didn't have a cancellation, only delays
<larsu> (I know this is probably not what you want to hear)
 * Sweetshark sneaks in the ubuntu CoC to libreoffice: http://skyfromme.wordpress.com/2013/01/19/brothers-in-arms/
<seb128> larsu, hey, made it alright yes ;-)
<didrocks> larsu: well, technically I took the train before mine
<didrocks> larsu: which was 4h40 late, so 2h40 compared to the one I was supposed to take :)
<seb128> larsu, it was like 19Â°C and sunny in SF, we had lunch in tshirt outside
<seb128> larsu, quite a change to be home under the snow
<larsu> seb128, haha I can imagine. It has been -14Â° here!
<larsu> but SNOW!!!
<didrocks> seb128: snow? you have that in the north (and apparently Paris Center) of France
<didrocks> thanks to lool positionning Lyon to south, we don't have any :p
<seb128> lol
<seb128> larsu, indeed, quite some snow here as well ;-) going to be cold for the week still it seems, forecast says -10Â°C during nights still until saturday
<Sweetshark> stgraber, bdrung: http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/libreoffice4/
<larsu> seb128, let's hope it gets back to normal before I take the train to fosdem :)
<seb128> yeah
<Sweetshark> larsu, seb128: please take a close watch on the libreoffice booth and dev-room. I wont be there this year, and they might start a revolution.
<didrocks> larsu: seb128: worse, you can even start the revolution! :)
<didrocks> "let's swith to cmake" :)
<Sweetshark> didrocks: thats a good starter.
 * larsu runs
<Sweetshark> didrocks: did you know the clever guys at Apache OO started to reimplement GNU make in Java ... for performance?
<didrocks> ahah, sounds a good plan! :-)
<didrocks> next step will be python
<Sweetshark> didrocks: no, next step will be implementing the JVM it runs on in python.
<didrocks> oh nice idea ;)
<didrocks> sounds like we have a plan
<larsu> pitti, do you know if there are any docs for dbus-test-runner? Or is it better to use GTestDBus?
 * larsu is more clueless about testing dbus services than he should be
<pitti> larsu: I've never used dbus-test-runner; I pretty much always use dbus-launch
<pitti> larsu: GTestDBus is really nice if it works for you, but it has a few shortcomings
<pitti> (it also just calls dbus-daemon, but it cares about proper cleanup)
<larsu> pitti, what are the shortcomings?
<pitti> larsu: AFAIR, mostly that it doesn't do service activation, unless you add the directory explicitly
<pitti> and some other bits, but I forgot; but it does work in general
<larsu> I don't think I have esoteric needs though, I just want to start a service and see if the right things are ending up on the other side of the bus
<larsu> well, I'll try, it's much better documented that dbus-test-runner
<larsu> pitti, thanks!
<pitti> yeah, that should be fine
<janimo> seb128, hi. which upstream channel would be most appropriate for g-s-d + plumbing talk ?
<seb128> janimo, #control-center or #gnome-hackers on irc.gnome.org
<janimo> seb128, thanks
<seb128> depending of what you define by "plumbing"
<seb128> if that's in the context of g-s-d, #control-center is probably good
<seb128> they cover g-c-c and g-s-d
<janimo> seb128, yes, g-s-d, to discuss the orientation plugin which makes use of udev as well
<seb128> k, #c-c ;-)
<janimo> seb128, that channel is so full of life :)
<seb128> janimo, well, it's IRC, it's slightly async :p
<seb128> bastien was talking with pitti on #gnome-hackers some minutes ago, so he's around
<seb128> wait a bit
 * pitti waves
<didrocks> have a nice evening pitti :)
<pitti> oh, I was just waving in response to seb128's highlight
<pitti> still debugging g-s-d
<Laney> get out while you have the chance!
<didrocks> ah ok :)
<pitti> trying to fix the tests and g-s-d's power plugin with Bastien since last Thursday or so
<seb128> laney, pitti: can you re-enable libglib-fam on linux next time you update glib in Debian?
<pitti> seb128: speaking of which, g-s-d 3.8 is a big "won't work" now :(
<seb128> desrt said the issues with it got fixed upstream and it's useful again, Joss is fine having it enabled again
<pitti> (it needs logind and all that)
<seb128> pitti, I though desrt did the work so logind was not an hard requirement?
<pitti> seb128: urgh, is anything still using this ancient fam lib?
<desrt> oh jesus christ
<desrt> pitti: it can use gamin as well
<pitti> seb128: not a build time requirement, but the power plugin will not work at all
<desrt> g-s-d has some BS systemd dependency now?
<pitti> for lid handling, suspend/hibernate, etc. what logind does
<pitti> well, we had that coming
<desrt> let seb128 talk to hadess about it
<desrt> he enjoys that :)
<desrt> there is no "we had that coming" this cycle
<desrt> unconditional systemd depends are officially off the table and upstream is opening requesting bugs filed about that
<desrt> *open to
<desrt> er. *openly, i guess i meant :)
<desrt> pitti: do you have a commit reference?
<pitti> desrt: I thought that only applied to building, not functionality?
<desrt> iirc there is something about 'base functionality'
<desrt> i'd think that power management is included?
<seb128> desrt, I think the consensus that GNOME would build/run but maybe miss some functionnalities and that they were ok with that
<desrt> i'd take it up with the release team
<desrt> i did a fair amount of chasing these issues already and they were always receptive
<desrt> even got some redhatters finishing off my patches for me
<desrt> meanwhile, aren't we supposed to be getting logind this cycle?
<desrt> or did that get bumped?
<pitti> desrt: oh, there are quite many; a1ab95f, 9efa97a, 6defe42, dropping lid handling (a95d9c and others), and quite a lot more
<seb128> desrt, it's still on the roadmap, I emailed slangasek about it last week but he was off sick some days, not sure how feasable it is
<desrt> oh look.  from bastien. :)
<pitti> desrt: yeah, one way or another we just have to implement the D-BUS API; quite frankly that's easier than playing whack-a-rat with all consumers
<desrt> pitti: i had an idea that we could write a compatibility libsystemd-logind that answered questions via CK
<pitti> desrt: we still need the d-bus API; gnome is using that over library calls for the "also builds/run on CK" requirement
<desrt> oh.  lovely.
<desrt> erm...
<desrt> +++ b/configure.ac
<desrt> +       libsystemd-login
<desrt> from a1ab95fae75dd61fd50165b4d8a08b5588245273
<desrt> pitti: this must be old news... this patch is from oct22
<desrt> i've built g-s-d on ubuntu fine many times since then
<pitti> desrt: yes, it builds
<pitti> that's what I said
<desrt> ah.  so he fixed up that part later
<desrt> ...by using dbus
<pitti> but its power plugin will not do anything
<desrt> cool!!
<pitti> desrt: above commits were runtime functionality changes, not build
<pitti> desrt: there are zero unbuildable modules in GNOME on Ubuntu right now :) https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Raring/view/JHBuild%20Gnome/
<desrt> seb128: i wonder if maybe we could help vorlon?
<desrt> pitti: you're doing god's work :)
<seb128> desrt, I'm waiting to hear back from him, robert_ancell said we might be better off adding those apis to lightdm (which does already track seats and sessions) if adapting logind is too hard
<seb128> desrt, but I want a status update before we take any action
<desrt> seb128: i know robert_ancell wanted logind for multi-seat udev integration stuff...
<seb128> desrt, I talked to him last week, he said the udev-tagging stuff should be easy to implement out of logind
<seb128> we just need to define which one of the two path is the easiest one
<desrt> the RH guys gave him a couple of those USB-plug-a-seat devices as a gift and he's stuck on being unable to support them with our present stack :/
<seb128> or the less costy over time
<desrt> ah.  cool.
<desrt> well, you know my opinion on this topic :)
<desrt> (and dave neary's)
<seb128> well, logind is part of systemd and we don't plan to use systemd
<desrt> ya, but these days so is udev :p
<seb128> so either we adapt logind and play catchup or interfaces changes
<seb128> well, they said udev will keep working standalone for a while ...
<seb128> I see where you are going :p
<desrt> pretty soon the kernel will be a systemd component :p
<seb128> let's see ;-)
<seb128> but, well, android does without systemd, we should be able to cope as well ;-)
<bdrung> Sweetshark: i will review the libreoffice package. i'll try to do it ASAP
<desrt> seb128: android isn't trying to run quasignome :)
<seb128> janimo, you might to want to ask bastien if he got your messages, he timeouted and rejoined with a _
<seb128> desrt, we are not either
<desrt> seb128: 'dpkg -l | grep' on my fresh ubuntu install tells a very very different story
<janimo> seb128, ok thanks
<Sweetshark> bdrung: thx
<stgraber> Sweetshark: I've also started a review (as I'm patch piloting anyway). I won't spend my whole shift on it though so I'll just send you and bdrung a summary of what I've spotted and let bdrung do some more detailed review of the changes.
<stgraber> oh, btw, I sent an upstream patch to gnome-control-center last week to support the 21:9 screen ratio. It's been merged there but my understanding is that we won't be getting the newer version in 13.04. Should I just cherry-pick and upload gnome-control-center or are you already planning an upload (and I should just poke one of you to have it included)?
<seb128> stgraber, do we have a bug open about that?
<stgraber> seb128: didn't think it was worth it for a 3 lines change. debdiff is at: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1555815/ (I'm currently running g-c-c built from this, so it works)
<seb128> stgraber, feel free to just commit to lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-control-center/ubuntu
<seb128> stage it for the next upload
<stgraber> seb128: alright, done
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> jasoncwarner, hey, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> desrt, you around?
<jasoncwarner> hey seb128 , everyone else! don't forget for those not in the US, monday is MLK day here ( I just found out myself ;) )
<seb128> jasoncwarner, hey, indeed ;-)
<didrocks> hey jasoncwarner! apparently, europeans are not the only one having issues with US food? ;)
<jasoncwarner> didrocks: ;). YOu feeling better?
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: a lot, thanks! Saturday morning, I felt good enough to travel and didn't suffer from it during travelling
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: yourself? how are you?
<jasoncwarner> didrocks don't think it was the food, so feel better about that, more the flu thing that is going around.
<jasoncwarner> but, then again, who knows ;)
<didrocks> yeah, I don't know, didn't get any headache here nor felt coughing, but yeah, who knowsâ¦ :)
<desrt> chrisccoulson: yes
<chrisccoulson> desrt, the recent glib changes to not require g_type_init make it very difficult to programatically disable the slice allocator
<desrt> chrisccoulson: i know
<chrisccoulson> ah ;)
<desrt> chrisccoulson: don't all firefox programs come with wrapper scripts anyway?
<desrt> s/firefox/mozilla/
<chrisccoulson> desrt, upstream got rid of the wrappper script ages ago, and ours is going away soon too ;)
<chrisccoulson> it's ok, i think i've figured out how to fix it after i pinged you
<desrt> sounds like you're in trouble
<desrt> of course, you could just ignore the problem
<chrisccoulson> heh
<desrt> i mean... it's not really a problem
<desrt> anyway... we have some vague ideas for how we could beat the slice allocator out of the gobject init process
<desrt> but it's generally considered to be not-worth-it
<chrisccoulson> i think i can beat it by adding a static initializer to libxul to disable it
<desrt> that's a dangerous game
<chrisccoulson> how come?
<desrt> it only works if you can guarantee that libxul loads before libgobject
<chrisccoulson> i can't think of any reason why libxul would load after gobject
<desrt> why is libgobject loading at all?
<desrt> i mean... shared libraries can be in any order, right?
<desrt> the only way to guarantee that one set of ctors runs before another is if A depends on B
<desrt> and libgobject doesn't depend on libxul
<desrt> so.... no guaranteed order
<chrisccoulson> the way this works currently is that firefox dlopen's libxul, which depends on gobject
<desrt> so you're in trouble, then
<desrt> that way gobject is guaranteed to run first
<chrisccoulson> ah, i see now
<desrt> you could dlopen libglib from firefox first and disable the slice allocator like that
<desrt> and then dlopen libxul
<desrt> that would work...
<desrt> i'm getting another idea, though
<desrt> i'm going to file a bug
<chrisccoulson> the problem is that it means making the same change in 3 places then :(
<chrisccoulson> (firefox, thunderbird and the webapp runtime)
<desrt> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=692215
<ubot2> Gnome bug 692215 in general "add back support for configuring gmem, gslice, etc." [Normal,New]
<chrisccoulson> thanks
 * didrocks waves good evening
<larsu_> is anyone else having problems with jhbuilding gobject-introspection?
<larsu_> it is stuck on finding python headers
<larsu_> oh, pyconfig.h is in /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/python2.7 instead of /usr/include/python2.7
<larsu_> the gobject-introspection configure doesn't add that to CPPFLAGS when looking for headers
<bjsnider> is anyone moderating the ml?
<bjsnider> i sent a message awhile back that hasn't been posted and hasn't been rejected
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-01-22
<pitti> Good morning
<jibel> good morning
<Laney> hey
<seb128> hey desktopers
<seb128> pitti, hey, is https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-adt-gvfs/ something you are looking at (it seems unhappy)?
<pitti> seb128: bonjour
<pitti> seb128: yes, it is; the new version's test seem to have a race condition
<seb128> pitti, salut, ok, merci
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
<didrocks> good morning
<didrocks> seems I'm still jetlagged :)
<seb128> oh, a didrocks
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> didrocks, good morning, sil2100 was looking for you, nux broke abi and the daily ppa segfaults, they need an unity rebuild and don't know how to trigger one
<sil2100> didrocks: indeed
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, should the launcher and panel be visible when the screen is locked btw?
<chrisccoulson> i noticed that this morning
<chrisccoulson> hi btw :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no they shouldn't, compiz stacking issue?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: not really, please file a bug
<sil2100> didrocks: I prepared a branch for bumping the nux ABI, but the daily PPA already has a nux that has an old ABI version but an ABI breakage
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, ok, will do if i can reproduce it again
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, please get the branch merge, we'll skip today's release then
<Laney> sil2100: Yo, I'm looking at your unity-2d SRU request
<Laney> is there some special process for Unity SRUs?
<Laney> asking because I don't see the standard SRU info in the bug
<Laney> or do the sub-bugs have it?
<Laney> aha
<jibel> chrisccoulson, hey, I added firefox PPAs to autopkgtest
<jibel> here is the result for trunk https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Raring/view/All/job/raring-ppa-adt-ubuntu_mozilla_daily_ppa-firefox-trunk/
<jibel> chrisccoulson, aurora is running
<chrisccoulson> jibel, awesome, thanks! i'll take a look through those results
<chrisccoulson> ah, TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | chrome://mochitests/content/browser/browser/base/content/test/social/browser_social_chatwindow.js | can't do any tests without this width
<chrisccoulson> i probably need to tell xvfb to make the screen a bit bigger
<chrisccoulson> ah, and some spellcheck / hyphenation reftest failures too. i probably need to install dictionaries and hyphenation patterns for those to work
<chrisccoulson> ok, should be easily fixed :)
<Sweetsha1k> seb128: ping?
<seb128> Sweetsha1k, hey
<notgary_> Does anyone know how I can add events to the Fridge calendar http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/
<seb128> notgary_, try asking on #ubuntu-devel , you have a better chance there to have somebody who knows about that
<notgary_> seb128: Thanks, I'll do just that
<jibel> notgary, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Calendar#Adding_Events_to_the_Calendar
<sil2100> Laney: the sub-bugs should have SRU-ed descriptions
<Laney> sil2100: yeah, I saw and uploaded it
<sil2100> Laney: this one bug I made specifically for sponsoring purposes ;)
<sil2100> Laney: thank you!
 * sil2100 hugs Laney 
<Laney> don't count your chickens until the SRU team have responded :P
<sil2100> ;)
<chrisccoulson> ah, dbusmenu, i hate you
<cyphermox> good morning desktoppers!
<cyphermox> and dbusmenu haters! ;)
<mterry> cyphermox, morning!
<seb128> hey cyphermox, mterry
<seb128> how are you?
<mterry> Good
<mterry> Wel
<mterry> Getting over a cold that wiped me out most of the weekend
<lool> Hi folks
<lool> bryce, seb128: Rick mentioned to me that upcoming Xorg updates might be incompatible with whatever we're using on the Nexus 7; I wonder whether we have a channel to request updated drivers (to Nvidia I guess?), would one of you two know?
<ogra_> lool, achiang had the task to talk to nvidia
<achiang> lool: ogra_: should be pat now
<ogra_> k
<pgraner> seb128, I noticed after updating today (raring) that the battery indicator is telling me I don't have a mouse or keyboard and that they have empty batteries, but yet I do and they have changed batteries... http://frylock.redvoodoo.org/~pgraner/indicators.png
<jasoncwarner> morning all
<mlankhorst> morning
<didrocks> hey jasoncwarner
<kenvandine> hey jasoncwarner!
<jasoncwarner> hey kenvandine didrocks  and mlankhorst  :)
<dobey> pitti: hey, what is the "pygtkcompat" module for exactly? twisted is using it, and latest pygobject apparently breaks it (not sure if previous twisted in ubuntu had this code though)
<seb128> jasoncwarner, hey, welcome back in a sane tz ;-)
<seb128> pgraner, it doesn't seem there was code changes recently to indicator-power, did you have icons for those devices before the update? did you have a kernel update in that run?
<seb128> cyphermox, ^
<pgraner> seb128, no extra icons before the update, I did get a new kernel tho
<seb128> pgraner, that needs debugging, can you report a bug using "ubuntu-bug indicator-power" if that's still an issue after reboot? it might be worth trying if booting the previous kernel fixes it as well
<pgraner> seb128, ack, let me reboot into the old kernel
<seb128> Sweetshark, qengho, chrisccoulson, didrocks, Laney, jasoncwarner, kenvandine, mlankhorst, cyphermox, mterry, robru, tkamppeter, attente: hey, it's meeting time!
<didrocks> hey!
<attente> hello!
<chrisccoulson> yo!
<seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2013-01-22
<kenvandine> yo!
<qengho> ohayoo.
 * mlankhorst still unsure why he joins, ah well
<mterry> hi
<Sweetshark> o/
<seb128> mlankhorst, are you up during the evening meeting with the other xorg guys?
<mlankhorst> nah too late for me :)
<seb128> k, so that's why you join this one, you need to pick one ;-)
<seb128> let's get started
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey
<robru> hey! I'm awake! whaaaa?
<seb128> robru, good morning ;-)
<robru> seb128, morning. I may go back to sleep after this meeting though ;-)
<mlankhorst> didn't know the other team had a meeting though
<seb128> Sweetshark, do you have a weekly summary ready?
<Sweetshark> seb128: added on the wiki
<Sweetshark> Thanks to jibel, we have a LibreOffice bibisect binrepo at http://people.canonical.com/~j-lallement/libreoffice/binrepo/ being populated from the QA labs
<Sweetshark> 3.5.7 SRU still waiting for feedback from SRU-team
<Sweetshark> 3.6.5rc2 for quantal in the works (hopefully done today)
<Sweetshark> LibreOffice 4.0beta2 in review
<Sweetshark> PPA backports policy mess (discussed with pitti and ricotz)
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<seb128> I will try to ping the SRU guys
<seb128> I see you have an agenda item, we will get to it after the updates round
<seb128> qengho, hey
<qengho>  [desktop-r-chromiumbrowser-improvements]
<qengho> 6DONE, 3deferrable / 12
<qengho> 1) getting ARM building. NEON support is a bit wonky.  LP:#1084852
<qengho> 2) dependent on 1, release new v24 for raring and all stable releases.
<qengho> EOF
<qengho> That bug describes *a* problem, but it's not really right.
<seb128> qengho, that bug you listed in 1) is closed for precise, does it mean you got chromium to build on precise/armfh?
<qengho> seb128: No.  Closed state is wrong too.
<qengho> seb128: I can't change it, right now.
<seb128> ok
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<chrisccoulson> right, for me:
<chrisccoulson> - Firefox 18.0.1 release
<chrisccoulson> - Busy upstreaming a bunch of patches
<chrisccoulson> - Working on dropping our menubar addon entirely
<chrisccoulson> - Investigating some memory leaks in Firefox
<chrisccoulson> and i've just fixed the biggest leak (bug 1103050) ;)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1103050 in libdbusmenu (Ubuntu) "Leak in method call handlers for calls that don't require a reply" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1103050
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what will replace the menubar addon?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, support in firefox itself
<seb128> great!
<chrisccoulson> it's getting more difficult to support an addon now, with upstream moving more interfaces to their shiny new DOM bindings
<chrisccoulson> eg, https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/fd642fb004e6 totally broke our addon last week
<chrisccoulson> so it's time to get rid of it now :)
<seb128> k, makes sense
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks, and well done on fixing another dbusmenu bug, be careful or you will end up maintaining it ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, hey
<didrocks> hey hey
<didrocks> We now have the unity stack itself as part of the daily release process. \o/ Now still need some components to finish their transitionning and having tests running. Tests are being written for it as documentation (see first blog post at http://blog.didrocks.fr/post/Unity%3A-release-early%2C-release-often%E2%80%A6-release-daily%21)
<chrisccoulson> heh, i want to avoid maintaining dbusmenu ;)
<didrocks> On another note, finished the work to have one workspace by default with the g-c-c option side and "show desktop" launcher icon support.
<didrocks> ..
<Laney> Is there any documentation for distro people wanting to land fixes to the daily packages?
<seb128> didrocks, thanks, not sure what other things but the unity daily landing being finally on rocks for me
<didrocks> Laney: that is coming with the blog posts I'm writing, I'll turn that into a wiki page as well
<didrocks> Laney: basically it's just "getting your fix upstream"
<didrocks> and wait for the next day
<mterry> Laney, debian/ is in trunk now
<didrocks> for urgent things, like retrying a landing, mterry, cyphermox, kenvandine and robru will be knowledgeable starting from thursday :)
<Laney> yeah but I was just confused about not pushing to the branch, what to do with the changelog and stuff like that
<mterry> Laney, you don't push directly, but just file a merge.  Update the changelog and things in debian/ like normal, since that is in trunk
 * Laney nods
<Laney> would be good to have it written down somewhere more permenant (don't want to get into the details now) ;-)
<Laney> thanks!
<mterry> Laney, though if you link your branch to a bug, debian/changelog gets updated automatically
<didrocks> Laney: that's planned, just need time :)
<didrocks> you have the intro up there ^
<Laney> mterry: (yeah, stuff ike that and the commit message you can set in MPs)
<didrocks> more to come :)
<Laney> (cool)
<seb128> thanks for the replies guys
<seb128> moving on
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> erm
<Laney> I just broke my paste, one second
<Laney> More gstreamer porting. Split out a telepathy-farstream-0.4 package for universe KDE stuff & moved the main package forward. Uploaded a ported empathy. Some stragglers remain as outlined on the pad. Working on pidgin but it's crashing ATM. Also been tinkering around the language-selector/lang/fontconfig issue (bug #1043031). Made progress with ja_JP. zh is more difficult, but work continues. Helped with updating GLib to 2.35 ...
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1043031 in language-selector (Ubuntu) "ja/zh fontconfig configuration only applied when locale is set 'natively'" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1043031
<Laney> ... (seems Debian doesn't want this in exp so we'll diverge for a bit but still maintain it in svn there). HDD failed and uncovered some plymouth/mdadm bugs but mainly mdadm saved the day ;-). Patch piloted (uploaded unity-2d to precise).
<Laney> â­
<seb128> thanks for the unity-2d to precise, it was waiting for a while
<Laney> yeah, I was a bit surprised at that one
<seb128> Laney, where are we with the gstreamer transition btw? almost done?
<Laney> yeah, mostly
<seb128> great
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> there's pidgin and libubuntuone
<seb128> is dobey helping for libubuntuone? or is the u1 team porting it?
<Laney> LO comes with 4.0 and bluez-gstreamer is going to be part of gstreamer itself
<Laney> no I'll do that but it mainly deals with fluendo stuff which doesn't really exist for 1.0 yet
<dobey> seb128: porting libubuntuone to what?
<seb128> ok, I've been sending some emails about that, we can discuss it off meeting if you want
<Laney> gstreamer 1.0
<seb128> dobey, gstreamer 0.10 -> 1.0
<dobey> oh
<Laney> sure
<dobey> is gst 0.10 going away for good in 13.04, or just off the image?
<seb128> Laney, thanks, moving on
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<mterry> dobey, off image
<kenvandine> Fixed out of tree builds in libaccounts-qt and libsignon-qt
<kenvandine> Prepared dual build (qt4/qt5) packaging branches for libaccounts-qt and signon
<Laney> (the latter, no way we'll port everything)
<pitti> dobey: it's supposed to provide (the most important parts of) the pygtk API as an adapter to GI, as you can't mix the real pygtk and GI
<kenvandine>  /THATSALLFOLKS
<dobey> Laney, mterry: ok, then i think we can just ignore libu1 for now; it's already off the image (rb plug-in doesn't use it any more), and we still need to decide what to do with libu1 wrt u1ms being moved to the web only, upstream. but i may very well just rip all the gst-using code out anyway
<Laney> dobey: ah, that would be good
<Laney> I'd rather get rid of shonky plugin installing code if possible :P
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<seb128> cyphermox, hey
<cyphermox> yo!
<cyphermox> indicator-session should build properly today, fixing some minor issues with g_type_init() blocking build for some indicators and xorg-gtest changes also failing some builds, libdbusmenu to be looked at by charles...
<cyphermox> NM stuff: building the new ModemManager API in a PPA for people who want to help test it, there should be a proper release of NM (without that new API) which is what we should get in the end in Raring
<cyphermox> Also trying to build/update connman in Debian and Ubuntu, but that's currently blocked on a kernel header issue.
<cyphermox> 0x00
<dobey> pitti: so something already using gi would have no reason to use it, right?
<pitti> dobey: if it already works with Gtk through GI, I can't think of a reason to use
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<seb128> mterry, hey
<mterry> - I've spent quite some time investigating adding support for AppArmor confined apps to gnome-keyring; work is ongoing
<mterry> - Fixed an upgrade bug in ubuntu-release-upgrader
<mterry> - Finished off a small UI rewrite branch for update-manager (I just blogged about it actually)
<mterry> - And set up my new computer (a Dell sputnik) for development work; it's been very good so far
<dobey> pitti: great, thanks
<mterry> EOF
<pitti> dobey: it's mostly meant to make the porting from pygtk2 easier, as that is an "all or nothing" port, i. e. you can't test your program in the middle of porting while it's still using both
<seb128> mterry, oh, you got one of those Dell, great ;-)
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey, short status update?
<mlankhorst> - doing updates to xserver lts-stack for 12.04.2 release (LP: #1086345, #927424, and various build fixes)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1086345 in libdrm (Ubuntu Precise) "Quantal-LTS-stack: Showing low-resolution screen on shutdown/reboot" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1086345
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 927424 in plymouth (Ubuntu Precise) "Please backport commit to enable building without irrelevant drm libs on some arches" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/927424
<mlankhorst> - working with release team to trim size of mesa down to old levels (done, I hope)
<mlankhorst> - fixing mesa vdpau bugs (also done, I hope)
<mlankhorst> longjmp();
<seb128> great
<seb128> mlankhorst, how is the backported stack looking for 12.04.2?
<mlankhorst> I think it's done, unless something urgent pops up
<mterry> I like how seb128  has to solve the halting problem to determine if a status update is finished (albeit trivial examples of it)
<mpt> Hmm, the Description for ubuntu-restricted-extras says "Installing this package will pull in support for ... DVD playback. Please note that this does not install libdvdcss2..." -- but as far as I can tell, it doesn't depend on any software related to DVDs at all.
<seb128> mlankhorst, great
<mpt> (or Recommend)
<seb128> mterry, heh :p
<mterry> mpt, in the middle of a meeting right now, hold up a few minutes
<seb128> robru, hey
<robru> seb128, hi!
<robru> * Inline some online-accounts packages for mardy (two more to go)
<robru> * Wrote up some documentation aimed at third-party plugin developers for lp:friends
<robru> * Add some DBus method calls to python-dbusmock making it easier to use in non-python tests. (pitti accepted my patches! Yay!)
<robru> * Integrate python-dbusmock into libfriends' Vala testsuite. Still waiting on kenvandine to approve that MP ;-)
<robru> sys.exit()
<kenvandine> robru, today :)
<robru> kenvandine, ;-)
<didrocks> robru: and you are going to bootstrap the process with upstream to get integration tests running as part of webcred stack, isn't it?
<seb128> robru, nice to see the online accounts packages getting inlined! ;-)
<robru> seb128, well, "inlined" may be somewhat generous. mardy still has to do manual merges from code.google
<robru> it's only "inlined" to launchpad, not in the official upstream repo
<robru> didrocks, yes, I suppose I will bootstrap also
<robru> had forgotten about bootstrapping ;-)
 * didrocks can't wait for that! :-)
<seb128> oh, right, some of those are not maintained in launchpad...
<robru> seb128, most
<seb128> right
<didrocks> robru: I mean, helping them to have integration tests running so that we can have daily release on webcreds :-)
<seb128> robru, thanks
<robru> didrocks, as long as they are the ones writing the tests it should be ok ;-)
<robru> seb128, yw ;-)
<didrocks> yep ;)
<pitti> robru: FYI, 0.4.0 is in raring since yesterday
<robru> pitti, excellent!
<seb128> moving on
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<seb128> hum, not there? moving on...
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> seb128, hi!
<attente> right now, the gtk 2 module is not working, but the gtk 3 module could use some general testing
<attente> so the packages that are needed are: unity-gtk3-module, gtk 3, and indicator-appmenu, all available from ppa:attente/unity-gtk-module
<attente> if anyone would like to help me test this, please be very careful not to use the gtk 2 packages in the ppa since they break pretty much every gtk 2 application
<attente> the project page is https://launchpad.net/unity-gtk-module
<attente> this week should be getting the gtk 2 module working, and probably dealing with a ton of the bugs in the gtk 3 module :)
<attente> ^D
<seb128> attente, great to see things getting in shape
<attente> thanks seb128
<seb128> attente, what is required to test? should gtk be rebuilt without the old patch? does it conflict with appmenu-gtk3?
<tkamppeter> seb128, I did an improvemnt of page size recognition in the CUPS Raster driver of Ghostscript, there are problems with some HP inkjets, and I lost a lot of time fighting with the Pandaboard until I got a desktop in my monitor's resolution (incompatibility with monitor, worked only through an HDMI switch).
<attente> the gtk in the ppa doesn't have the menu proxy patch, so updating to that should do it
<attente> if appmenu-gtk3 is left alone, the module still works
<seb128> attente, ah ok, you have a gtk in your ppa, great ... btw sorry for letting you fight with packaging, if you need help or having question for packaging stuff please ask her on the channel, we have enough tz coverage that you should have people around able to help you
<seb128> those who feel adventurous, feel free to test ^
<seb128> attente, I will give it a try later and tell you how it goes for me
<seb128> attente, thanks
<seb128> tkamppeter, ok, thanks
<attente> seb128, thanks for your help, it was good to learn the basics
<seb128> me: I was at a sprint last week and travelling, in between I worked a bit on the nexus7 memory usage problems and reviewed some of the blueprints/changes in the work
<seb128> .
<seb128> Did I forgot anyone? any topic/comment before we discuss libreoffice backports (item from Sweetshark)?
<Laney> I'll have one after ;-)
<seb128> Laney, go first if yours is short
<Laney> oh ok
<seb128> I will probably dismiss the meeting and not keep everyone to discuss libreoffice
<seb128> so those who are interested by the topic please stay a bit after the meeting
<Laney> so last week I raised on the ml about dropping gnome-media
<Laney> didn't get any real objections on there unless there's something stuck in moderation
<seb128> the sound recorder?
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> we got several oem-high priority bugs in the past when it was not working well, including in precise, they even spent time to fix some of those bugs
<Laney> mpt said in the medium/long term they would like to include kazam which should get that functionality
<seb128> that makes me think it's either on a list of requirement/important
<Laney> hmm
<seb128> or that they just had to make work correctly what is installed
<seb128> it would be good to check with them which one it is
<seb128> I will take an action to figure that out
<Laney> it's dead upstream but there is a sort-of gnome3-ish rewrite
<Laney> which doesn't really work yet but would be a good point if we want to keep on with a sound recorder IMO
<seb128> and there is no working sound recorder in the whole universe we could use?
<Laney> good point to start from
<seb128> it seems like a simple feature and something that should have a dozen universe variants
<seb128> but maybe it's not interesting to people ;-)
<Laney> depends if any of them are good enough
<Laney> nobody chimed in with any on list
<seb128> Laney, thanks, I will follow up on the list discussion once I figure out if oem cares about it
<Laney> ack
<seb128> other topics?
<seb128> seems not
<seb128> thanks everybody
<seb128> Sweetshark, so, libreoffice backports ... tell us ;-)
<Sweetshark> as for the PPA policy here is the tl;dr version of what I proposed: "never upload a never (dependency) package to the LibreOffice ppa as long we are on the same major libreoffice version as the ubuntu series"
<Sweetshark> so something like having libexttextcat 3.3.1-2/precise in the libreoffice-3-5 PPA shouldnt happen in the future (as precise has 3.2.0 and thats what upstream released with)
<Sweetshark> this is to allow SRUs to be tested there unmodified (testing something different than what will be SRUed kinda defeats the point)
<Sweetshark> previously there where even newer deps than upstream does with a given LibreOffice major (e.g. libexttextcat 3.2.x was used upstream with LO 3.5). I dont think that is useful, given the regression risk with such an untested combination
<Sweetshark> I fear we still need an extra PPA for precise SRU testing (were we cant take back the existing upload with is likely widely deployed) as the libreoffice-3-5 PPA has already dependency updates that prevent a unmodified SRU to land there
<Sweetshark> does this make sense or does somebody have a better proposal?
<seb128> Sweetshark, what's the purpose of the ppa? you wrote backports on the wiki page ... is that for backports or SRUs?
<seb128> Sweetshark, we are getting libreoffice 4 in raring, is that going to a ppa for older series?
<seb128> or is the ppa e.g for the libreoffice 3.5.7 update for precise?
<Sweetshark> seb128: currently we have four ppas: the generic ppa, which will ideally hold the newest major LO version on all ubuntu series (that is 4 on all series) and libreoffice-3-6 (which has the latest 3.6 version on all series), -3-5 (same for the older LO major) and prereleases (which holds upstream betas)
<Sweetshark> so what I want is that I can upload a 3.5.x SRU for precise unmodified in the libreoffice-3-5 ppa and a 3.6.x SRU for quantal to the libreoffice-3-6 PPA
<seb128> can't you just make a sru ppa and upload 3.5 to the precise serie there and 3.6 to the quantal one?
<Sweetshark> seb128: yes, except that most users are on the existing ppas. so I would lose testers.
<seb128> ok, so what do you need to change exactly compared to today and why?
<seb128> sorry I miss a bit of context there
<Sweetshark> seb128: the change is essentially not to update libreoffice dependencies to something newer than the upstream major release did. E.g. libreoffice-3-5 PPA has a update of libexttextcat which need a slightly different LO package than the one that would be SRUed as the latest libexttextcat version in the PPA is different from the one in precise/main.
<Sweetshark> thus if I copy the SRU package to that PPA it breaks stuff for people.
<seb128> Sweetshark, staying on the same serie seems to make sense to me yes
<Sweetshark> seb128: my point is that one should only upload a newer dep of LibreOffice to the libreoffice-3-5 PPA if that is intended to be SRUed.
<seb128> Sweetshark, right, that makes sense to me if the goal is to test what is SRU material and not to have the crack of the day current version
<Sweetshark> if one uploads a newer LibreOffice _major_ version than was in the Ubuntu release (e.g. in the generic PPA LibreOffice 3.6.x for precise), then its perfectly fine to upload newer deps along as that version wont be SRUed anyway.
<Sweetshark> (we dont SRU a different major, heh)
<seb128> Sweetshark, it's a bit confusing that you use the same ppa for SRUs candidate and new series
<lool> seb128: I poked Oliver and Steve L on the Nexus 7 stuff, and updated the notes but I've discovered https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/raring-targets today, so will have to digest that; that might be the best place to contribute the smem instructions to
<lool> there seems to be a lot documented there already
<Sweetshark> seb128: yes, but thats how users see it: "I use the -3-5 ppa and when I want to update I can go to -3-6 or the generic ppa".
<seb128> lool, ok, thanks, do you know who is working on those targets/defining them?
<Sweetshark> seb128: The complexity is for the packagers.
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok ... well in any case what you described before (e.g "keep the libraries on the same versions when the ppa has SRU candidate packages") seems fine to me
<seb128> I would probably have made the ppas differently
<seb128> e.g one "SRU" and one "current serie"
<lool> seb128: it's a myriad of blueprints https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-raring-desktop-targets-for-embedded
<seb128> rather than 3.5, 3.6 etc
<seb128> lool, do you know who is driving them?
<lool> seb128: some workitems on Oliver, Martin etc.
<lool> seb128: As a whole?  no; I know ogra_ is running some Nexus 7 meetings though
<Sweetshark> seb128: yes, then people would complain that they want to update to 3.6.x on precise now (because upstream 3.6 is reasonably stable), but they dont want the possibly not-that-stable-yet LibreOffice 4.0.0 yet, bit instead stay with the stable 3.6.x updates ....
<seb128> Sweetshark, well, you should have a ppa for SRU, one for "current stable", I wouldn't bother doing 4 for old series atm
<seb128> stable should be current 3.6
<seb128> Sweetshark, but, well, you are doing the work, so your call
<seb128> your way just seems a bit more confusing
<seb128> and it's a bit harder to know what/where can get new libraries
<Sweetshark> seb128: I have some 10-20 mails in my inbox on LO4 release day screaming for backports for at least precise/quantal, possibly also for lucid. Im quite happy if ricotz does those and I can point people to that.
<Sweetshark> s/I have/I will have/
<mterry> mpt, heyo, btw.  Maybe libavcodec-extra-53 has some codecs used in decoding DVDs?
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok
<ogra_> seb128, victorp and achiang
<victorp> ogra_, ugh?
<ogra_> victorp, the blueprint above
<ogra_> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-raring-desktop-targets-for-embedded
<Sweetshark> seb128: anyway, I will discuss with ricotz -- maybe he likes you proposal.
<seb128> ogra_, victorp: we were talking about the number of different team/groups working on similar nexus7 work items, communication seem suboptimal at best
<victorp> ogra_, yes that is the blueprint "topic" used to report on status.u.c
<ogra_> seb128, i agree, i stated the weekly meeting again last week though
<victorp> ogra_, that will help
<seb128> do we have a public mailing list for nexus7 work?
<victorp> seb128,  as this is a desktop image, are you the lead for this?
<ogra_> ubuntu-devel
<seb128> victorp, well, I started leading work from our side, but we discovered that some people were doing similar work on non ubuntu channel and not communicating, which is what raised the issue ... we need to sort that out and get everybody at the same place
<victorp> seb128, ok - but I thought the "official" channel is #ubuntu-arm
<ogra_> well, friday 16:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting ;)
<ogra_> and yes, #ubuntu-arm beyond that
<ogra_> and ubuntu-devel for mails
<seb128> victorp, I didn't even know we had an #ubuntu-arm, we have been doing our work on "normal" channels, e.g #ubuntu-desktop and #ubuntu-devel
<victorp> seb128, we had #ubuntu-arm for ever
<seb128> I guess it's time to get everybody Cced in one email and to sort out who works on what and what channels/lists we use
<seb128> victorp, well, I was never on that and I didn't know about it, I though one of the goals was to stop having difference between arch/images and work on "Ubuntu"
<seb128> anyway, let's move on
<ogra_> its only 4 years old :)
<victorp> seb128,  seems like you need to read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Developers - General info
<seb128> ogra_, I'm not on all ubuntu channels, enough activity by following 10 of those
<ogra_> yeah, agreed
<seb128> victorp, thanks
<ogra_> i'm not on all either
<victorp> seb128, but I guess by non-ubuntu channel you dont mean #ubuntu-arm
<seb128> victorp, well, I wish the work was in "mainline ubuntu" and no specific to arm, we said we need to make the image fit for mobiles targets, it's not arm specific work for most part
<seb128> victorp, it's like plugging leaks in standard services, being smarter about what we run, that will impact the intel image in the same way
<ogra_> well, ubuntu-arm surely doesnt need to be our work channel, it is traditionaly the arm support channel though
<victorp> seb128, If you want to me channels I am fine with that. I would rather focus on knocking work items from blueprint to be honest
<seb128> victorp, well, we discovered that some work was duplicate (e.g resources wasted) because different groups worked on similar things within knowing about each others, which is what I'm trying to sort
<ogra_> seb128, well, it would help if people attended the meeting for a start
<seb128> victorp, ogra_: who need somebody in charge of coordinating ... who would that be (I'm happy to step up if needed)
<ogra_> well, achiang used to do that... alex, are you out of the project now ?
<victorp> ogra_, no he isnt ;) it needs to be someone from the desktop team
<seb128> ogra_, sorry I was in SF for a sprint last friday
<victorp> you should ask jasoncwarner
<ogra_> seb128, yeah, not blaming you, it was also short notice last week
<achiang> ogra_: for one, i'm just maxed out at the moment, but even if that wasn't true, the real answer is that the role is properly owned by the desktop team. it would be weird if i was in charge. :)
<ogra_> but someone had to start it again
<ogra_> achiang, well, you were in charge of the preparation
<achiang> desktop are the stewards, i'm just a helper who can go shake the appropriate trees if needed
<ogra_> and kind of left a gap
<achiang> ogra_: nod, we were filling a gap, and then yeah... created a new gap. :-/
<ogra_> well, we'll get it filled again
<ogra_> :)
<achiang> ogra_: seb128: so let's figure out how to close the gap. 1) weekly meetings are starting back up, so that's good. 2) seb128 volunteered to lead coordination efforts
<achiang> do we need a (3) ?
<ogra_> we can make up 3 at the meeting ;)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, can we have this in our cairo? http://cgit.freedesktop.org/cairo/commit/src/cairo-xlib-surface-shm.c?id=5d21c9e224617110678a5b854a6a41049a02fca2
<chrisccoulson> :)
<chrisccoulson> it fixes another leak in firefox ;)
<chrisccoulson> (and probably everywhere else too)
<seb128> ogra_, achiang, lool: ok, let's sort that out friday at the meeting, I will pick coordination up from there
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, firefox uses system cairo now? ;-)
<achiang> +1
<seb128> chrisccoulson, when do you apply for coredev btw? :p
<achiang> seb128: ogra_: thanks
<seb128> achiang, thanks as well ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, it doesn't use the system cairo directly, but it gets used by the native theme rendering
<ogra_> seb128, do you think he'll get approved ?
<chrisccoulson> heh, coredev ;)
<ogra_> with less than 5 years experience
<seb128> ogra_, likely not :p
<seb128> ogra_, will give me another reason to be grumpy ;-)
 * ogra_ pondersbto apply for DMB since that mail thread started
<chrisccoulson> heh, i was thinking about doing that too
<seb128> ogra_, you should
<seb128> chrisccoulson, anyway, I can get the patch in, or sponsor an upload for you... ;-)
<ogra_> heh, yeah, looking if i can free up the time is the issue
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, is there no bzr branch for cairo?
<seb128> hum, I don't think so, I think we were in sync for Debian too regularly for that
<seb128> just put a debdiff online ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ok, i'll do that in a second. just testing to make sure this build works
<chrisccoulson> and need to do another run with valgrind too, which is slow ;)
<chrisccoulson> it's been a productive day today, getting to the bottom of the 2 largest firefox leaks :)
<achiang> ogra_: poke, how's your bandwidth these days? any chance you could try this? LP: #1081734
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1081734 in eglibc (Ubuntu Precise) "malloc hangs when ltp mallocstress is run repeatedly" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1081734
<achiang> ogra_: nvidia want to get that SRU'ed into precise, but i don't have any cycles to test
<ogra_> achiang, hmm, libc is more infinity-land
<achiang> ogra_: yeah, i poked him, but he's ignoring me. ;)
<ogra_> might be off today
<ogra_> i havent seen him all day
<ogra_> oh, he just showed up in #ubuntu-release
<achiang> ogra_: it might just be a matter of applying the patch and then running the ltp test
<achiang> ogra_: ah, he just woke up in -devel too. :)
<ogra_> yup
<mterry> Is autologin broken for anyone else?
<mterry> (in raring)
<seb128> mterry, dunno but I can test later, I don't want to reboot now (my user is ecryptfs so I don't use it, but I can turn on autologin for my test user and see on next boot)
<seb128> mterry, I see you just uploaded accountsservice, maybe a bug in that version?
<seb128> mterry, do you want me to fetch that one or try with current raring?
<mterry> seb128, OK thanks.  The version of accountsservice shouldn't matter.  That just affected the reporting of whether autologin was enabled or not
<mterry> seb128, which was broken.  But in addition, the feature itself isn't working for me
<seb128> mterry, shouldn't/doesn't :p
<mterry> I can see it try in the lightdm logs
<mterry> seb128, doesn't.  Was broken for me before and after that update
<seb128> let's see
 * mterry reboots to try again
<seb128> mterry, works for me
<seb128> mterry, is the account you try to log in ecryptfs protected (just asking in case)
<mterry> seb128, yeah you gave me the idea to check a non-ecryptfs user
<mterry> seb128, it worked for me too then
<seb128> lol
<mterry> seb128, so I'll file a bug and give it to rob
<seb128> that's a bug, autologin is not supposed to be possible to set for ecryptfs users
<seb128> that used to work in the past
<mterry> seb128, oh god
<mterry> seb128, you're right.  I forgot about that
<mterry> seb128, good that it's working 'correctly' then.
<seb128> mterry, if lightdm can figure how to log you in, your ecryption is not as strong as you think it is ;-)
<mterry> seb128, yeah yeah.  I'm just an idiot.  :)
<mterry> let me see why gnome-control-center is being so generous
<seb128> mterry, 55_user_accounts_hide_controls.patch is supposed to take care of it
<seb128> mterry, bzr seems to point you as the author of the patch btw ;-)
<mterry> seb128, yup
<mterry> :)
<jbicha> nice :)
<jbicha> it'd be nice to get accountsservice 0.6.30 into raring as it would be 1 less thing to maintain in the gnome3-staging ppa
<jbicha> gthumb now uses Ctrl+Delete for send to trash too :(
<mterry> seb128, hmph.  Seems *someone* that updated to 3.6.3 didn't double confirm that my patch still worked.  Upstream changed code out from under me, but I'll fix it in a sec
<seb128> mterry, /me looks somewhere else, dunno what you mean by "someone" there ;-)
<seb128> mterry, thanks for fixing it
<mterry> :)
<mterry> cyphermox, I see that indicator-session isn't doing daily builds yet?
<cyphermox> it should be working since this morning
<robru> anybody else seeing bug 1099589?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1099589 in devscripts (Ubuntu) "wrap-and-sort crashed with TypeError in save(): must be str, not bytes" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1099589
<robru> xnox, ^^ ;-)
<mterry> cyphermox, oh neat.  Looking forward to it!  I've got a work item sitting in indicator-session trunk  :)
<mterry> robru, I get it too
<robru> mterry, thanks, I'm not crazy ;-) somebody had marked it as a duplicate of something else that got fixed, but I'm still experiencing it
<robru> mterry, btw, you in a rush for that mp you sent me? I'll probably get to that tomorrow
<mterry> robru, no rush
<jasoncwarner> RAOF TheMuso bryce hey AU folk. Meeting reminder https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2013-01-22 (I think my calendar switched to the right time ;) )
 * bryce waves
<bryce> jasoncwarner, so I hear you're the infection vector this trip?
<jasoncwarner> bryce I think didrocks was patient zero ;)
<jasoncwarner> bryce anything you wanted to update for the meeting? TheMuso same question? RAOF you would be last ;)
<bryce> currently working on nexus7 patches for some touch issues.
<jasoncwarner> bryce: nice
<bryce> meeting tomorrow with tvoss to coordinate some display server integration stuff
<bryce> last week focused on getting bunches of fixes into xdiagnose; still have a few follow ups to do there but it looks good
<jasoncwarner> nice, thanks bryce
<bryce> oh, and fixed vnc4 on armhf
<bryce> (wasn't building)
<bryce> jasoncwarner, think that covers it
<bryce> oh, one issue I wanted to bring up
<jasoncwarner> bryce: ok
<bryce> I looked into our currently pending SRU's the other day.  Things generally look good, except for the proprietary drivers which are a mess
<bryce> for both -nvidia and -fglrx we have a gob of SRUs blocked on verification failures or other misc. problems
<bryce> I'm not sure what to do with these
<jasoncwarner> thanks, bryce.
<RAOF> Ah, good. This morning is my SRU day; I thought that last time I'd pushed everything appropriate for testing in -proposed.
<TheMuso> Nothing from me other than whats on the wiki page.
<jasoncwarner> RAOF perhaps take a look at the things bryce raised? :)
<jasoncwarner> (perfect timing)
<bryce> RAOF, the problem is mostly SRUs were verification has failed or we're waiting endlessly on someone to do verification on quantal or something
<RAOF> Story of SRUs in general â¹
<bryce> I added all the SRU's to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/TODO with what it looked like the next action is for each
<bryce> RAOF, any you can help plink off or move forward will help; I'll pitch in as well as I have time
<bryce> jasoncwarner, done for real now :-)
<jasoncwarner> bryce: :) thanks.
<jasoncwarner> Thanks eastern update! /end
<RAOF> bryce: Have we determined when we'll be rolling out display server integration stuff more widely?
<bryce> RAOF, will probably have things more pinned down after tomorrow's meeting but the schedule I showed you a while back is the current plan
<bryce> RAOF, let's plan to PM tomorrow to get some specific tasks and stuff laid out.
<RAOF> I'll hunt down that email and see where my progress lines up.
<RAOF> That's also roughly my desktop report :)
<mlankhorst> bryce: can I ask you to make one of those version check scripts, to check precise versions of the lts-stack against what' s available in quantal?
<bryce> RAOF, btw I emailed you some general X status Q's a couple weeks ago.  Shoot in a reply when you get a chance
<RAOF> Urgh. More email hunting :(
<bryce> mlankhorst, sure; do you mean like http://www.bryceharrington.org/Arsenal/ubuntu-x-swat/Reports/package-status.html ?
<bryce> RAOF, no worries, I'll resend
<RAOF> Thanks.
<mlankhorst> bryce: yes :-)
<bryce> mlankhorst, sure thing; adding it to my todo's...
<mlankhorst> the precise -lts-quantal version should be identical if you strip off ~precise* from the version number
 * bryce nods
<RAOF> bryce: Ta, got it.
<RAOF> (I got fed up with evolution dying too much and switched to Thunderbird, but am not yet comfortable)
<bryce> heh, crashes are why I never started using gui mail programs. You would think they'd have solved all the crashes by now.
<bryce> mutt ftw ;-)
<RAOF> Geary's winding up to be quite nice.
<RAOF> But then again, it's currently pretty skeletal. You get to fill in all the future awesome features :)
<RAOF> (Such as handling >1 mail account)
<rickspencer3> jasoncwarner, around at all?
<jasoncwarner> hey rickspencer3 yup yup!
<rickspencer3> jasoncwarner, so ... I have a nexus 7 challenge for your team
<rickspencer3> see what you think
<jasoncwarner> rickspencer3: listening ;)
<rickspencer3> I'd like to be able to run Qt creator and work on my apps (with keyboard and mouse attached)
<rickspencer3> so, get Qt5, Qt creator with our new Ubuntu loveliness all packagedup
<rickspencer3> and find/fix any perf issues
<jasoncwarner> rickspencer3 seems like a generally useful benchmark for success. don't see why we couldn't target that. Would be an all around good test of the system.
<rickspencer3> then I could play with the touch interactions and stuff
<rickspencer3> jasoncwarner, QtCreator works well on my little netbook, fwiw
<jasoncwarner> rickspencer3: I'll add that as one of my usecases to the target tests.
<rickspencer3> jasoncwarner, it would be nice to have qt Creator properly packaged anyway
<rickspencer3> it seems like it's still slightly out of whack
<micahg> !info qtcreator
<ubot2> 'maverick' is not a valid distribution:
<micahg> !info qtcreator raring
<ubot2> 'raring' is not a valid distribution:
<jasoncwarner> rickspencer3 yeah, that goes to the whole qt5 stuff. ETA was end of month, though I'll get an update on that one from didrocks when he wakes up tomorrow.
<micahg> qtcreator is in raring
<jasoncwarner> rickspencer3 though, it is all in line with our targets so I don't see a problem framing the discussion that way at all.
<jasoncwarner> rickspencer3: thanks for the feedback and challenge...not to mention the specific testing use case ;)
<rickspencer3> thanks jasoncwarner
<rickspencer3> jasoncwarner, I actually think it would be nice to be able to develop directly on a device that has touch and gesture support
<jasoncwarner> rickspencer3 I could see the appeal of that. particularly with your game ;)
<rickspencer3> jasoncwarner, hah
<rickspencer3> next I will ask for easy packaging tools :)
<rickspencer3> jasoncwarner, I can't believe I am saying this ... but I am really enjoying having an IDE again
<jasoncwarner> rickspencer3 I'm pretty happy with qtcreator as well. Though, my bar is quite low...ie...not eclipse ;)
<rickspencer3> haha
<rickspencer3> I've been using terminal, gedit, and pydb for so long, I forgot how civilized people live
<rickspencer3> pdb, my best friend
<jasoncwarner> :)
<rickspencer3> gaaah
<rickspencer3> with the Gimp, I can no longer find the tool for setting the pencil properties easily :/
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, jasoncwarner, what's wrong with vim? ;)
<rickspencer3> hi chrisccoulson
<jasoncwarner> chrisccoulson sheesh...why don't you just start talking religion in the channel ;)
<rickspencer3> I'm not man enough for VIM
<chrisccoulson> hi rickspencer3 :)
 * rickspencer3 kicks The Gimp
<chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner, heh. i'll end up starting a emacs vs vim debate if i'm not careful
<desrt> rickspencer3: remember in oakland when we had a sit-down to try to get something working properly with webkit and python and some socket that you needed to read from?
<desrt> and how insanely complicated it was...
<rickspencer3> desrt, heck yeah
<rickspencer3> good times
<desrt> rickspencer3: there's a new one-call API now to do that
<desrt> added because of how annoyed i got on that day :)
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> nice one desrt
<rickspencer3> having users really does make one's code better
<desrt> indeed
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-01-23
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: Why does Thunderbird make it so difficult to send plain-text email?
<TheMuso> RAOF: How so? I've never had a problem sending plain text email...
<TheMuso> Mind you I always set things up such that I view plain text emails, and make sure my replies are sent as plain text only.
<desrt> RAOF: you just have to find the right places to turn it off
<desrt> RAOF: i agree -- it's pretty damn obnoxious
<desrt> RAOF: consider, though, that mozilla is very very much about html, as a company
<desrt> and it makes a bit of sense
<RAOF> Yeah.
<micahg> RAOF: it's one preference
<RAOF> micahg: Where?
<micahg> Edit -> preferences -> composition -> Send OPtions
<RAOF> And add * to Plain Text Domains?
<micahg> hrm, that's not what I thought it was
<RAOF> Yeah, that's where I looked first, but it doesn't have a âJust send plain text, damnitâ option.
<desrt> i think it's a per-account setting or something
<desrt> i remember it _not_ being easy to find
<desrt> ya... under account settings for each account
<desrt> there is a checkbox in "Composition and addressing"
<RAOF> Ah, yes. There we go.
<RAOF> Good work on that dialog being > 768 pixels high, by the way.
<lifeless> WIN
<TheMuso> HTML in email really shoudl have been banned years ago.
<TheMuso> Its a bitch when I get emails that don't have a plain text equivalent.
<TheMuso> Whoops, meant pain, a little milder...
<desrt> heh
<desrt> i'm infuriated enough when i get html-only email that i can't even imagine...
<lifeless> TheMuso: bitch is fine :>
<TheMuso> heh ok.
<lifeless> TheMuso: if it was aimed at someone, it definitely wouldn't be
<lifeless> TheMuso: but its very mild on the swearometer, and you are normally -so- polite ... :)
<desrt> lifeless: i find people's swearometers are calibrated differently according to country
<lifeless> desrt: yeah
<RAOF> Man, those fglrx-updates/nvidia
<RAOF> Man, those fglrx-updates/nvidia-updates SRUs are a gnarly mass of unknown status.
<duflu> RAOF: Unknown status?
<RAOF> duflu: It's hard to determine what the status of the various pieces are. Have the updates been verified? Which packages are verified? What about Godot?
<duflu> RAOF: So the usual... just trust us... this new version is better :)
<duflu> Or are they being uploaded without any -proposed testing?
<RAOF> Oh, they're in -proposed now.
<RAOF> I'm just trying to work out whether they should be move from -proposed to -updates.
<duflu> RAOF: Mind-reading of graphics vendors is in your job description, no?
<RAOF> Oh, thsi is a problem partially of my own making. The *bugs* are a gnarly mass of confusion.
<RAOF> Ok. So the only thing preventing fglrx-updates from hitting precise-proposed is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer-updates/+bug/1039397 not being verified.
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1039397 in fglrx-installer-updates (Ubuntu) "[Dell Precision M6700] HDMI audio fails, HDMI/Displayport output has blank frame" [Medium,Incomplete]
<bryce> RAOF, yeah it's quite a confusing mess.  Think the verification requirements are being overly strict?
<RAOF> bryce: Not really. Two of the bugs linked in the SRU are not actually bugs, so can't be verified. That's my fault for letting the package into proposed.
<bryce> part of the problem is the installer for the proprietary drivers involves a bit of playing russian roulette
<pitti> Good morning
<highvoltage> pitteah
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> salut jibel!
<pitti> hey didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> pitti: still tired, but going in the right direction :)
<didrocks> yourself?
<pitti> I'm quite fine, thanks; making some nice progress on mocking hardware
<didrocks> sweet!
<pitti> gphoto2 --auto-detect already works, now working on actually mocking the data as well
<didrocks> excellent :)
<jibel> hey didrocks
<seb128> hey desktopers
<seb128> pitti, hey, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gconf/3.2.5-0ubuntu6 ... did you just forget to push or did you forgot to use the vcs?
<seb128> pitti, if that's the second one don't bother, I can just merge it back there from the archive version
<pitti> seb128: sorry, forgot VCS; I'll commit it now, for teaching myself :)
<seb128> pitti, danke ;-)
<pitti> seb128: done, sorry
<seb128> pitti, no worry, thanks!
<ogra_> seb128, hmm, i have a slight problem with gsettings on the nexus ... we ship http://paste.ubuntu.com/1562339/ ... and in dconf-editor i can see "suspend" being the setting thats used, nontheless it gives me the interactive dialog *until* i once switch the setting in dconf-editor manually once
<ogra_> any idea what that could be ?
<seb128> ogra_, do you run glib-compile-schemas on rootfs/usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/ubuntu-defaults-nexus7-powerbtn.override  to get gschemas.compiled updated?
<seb128> ogra_, the glib triggers take care of that on the system when installing package, not sure that happens for your rootfs
<ogra_> i thought dh does that automatically
<ogra_> oh, rootfs is only a package path
<ogra_> the binary package puts it in /
<ogra_> (some weird setup of the ubuntu-defaults stuff)
<seb128> ogra_, gsettings get org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.power button-power
<ogra_> well, i changed it now, let me reset it first
<seb128> what does that give when it's behaving buggy?
<seb128> k
<ogra_> well, dconf-editor showed the right value
<pitti> seb128: ah, wrt. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-gnome-plans-review I wasn't sure whether the "update .." ones were DONE already, as we don't yet have their final versions
<ogra_> ("suspend")
<seb128> pitti, well, we are on the unstable serie and will track it through version, I think it's good enough for the workitems, but feel free to change it back if they are useful for tracking for you
<pitti> seb128: so you think they are enough for "get to current GNOME 3.7.x version", and the rest will just be part of the normal update cycle?
<seb128> pitti, yes
<pitti> seb128: I'm on d-devel-list, so through that I should get a reminder for new devel releases
<ogra_> seb128, "set to default" in dconf-editor gets me "suspend" back in the value field and makes the entry non-bold ... though pressing the power button now gets me the dialog again
<pitti> seb128: if you are also watching, please feel free to prod me if I forget
<seb128> pitti, well, I'm watching http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/desktop.html in any case ;-)
<seb128> pitti, will do
 * pitti te donne une accolade
 * seb128 hugs pitti back
<seb128> ogra_, if the gsettings command return the right value then there is probably a bug in gnome-session...
<ogra_> ogra@nexus7:~$ gsettings get org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.power button-power
<ogra_> 'interactive'
<ogra_> ogra@nexus7:~$
<ogra_> aha
<ogra_> funny, why does dconf show the other value
<ogra_> could it be that i miss any quoting in the .override file ?
<pitti> seb128: is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-gnome-fallback even relevant for this cycle still?
<pitti> seb128: i. e. do we want to move the automounting code in this cycle to be prepared, or move it to free resources for nexus 7 and friends?
<seb128> ogra_, dconf-editor is hackish, gsettings lacks the api it needs so it does guess work by parsing schemas itself
<seb128> pitti, yes that spec is still revelant, and it would be good to clean/move the automount code, that's not the highest item on the list though
<seb128> ogra_, try ='suspend' yes (with the '')
<ogra_> no change
<ogra_> even tried double quotes
<ogra_> it is a list value, i wonder if it needs special treatment due to that
<ogra_> hmm, no it says string
<tkamppeter> seb128, there is an upstream fix for bug 1101213, can you apply it? Thanks.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1101213 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "G-c-c printing doesn't allow you to select a hp printer" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1101213
<seb128> tkamppeter, sure, thanks for looking to it!
<didrocks> Laney: btw, the 2nd blog post should answer to some of your question about how to interact with them
<didrocks> them beeing the PS packages
<didrocks> Laney: if you have any question, I think we should file a FAQ in the end
<didrocks> (that I'll paste to a wiki page)
<Laney> didrocks: awesome, will read!
<Laney> I think I want a simple document that just says
<Laney>  - bzr branch <whatever>
<Laney>  - hack hack hack
<Laney>  - bzr commit --fixes=lp:foo; bzr push lp:~/...; bzr lp-propose ...
<didrocks> Laney: can you add that to the desktop pad?
<Laney>  - set commit message on MP
<didrocks> Laney: I'll grab the questions for doing the FAQ
<Laney> ok I'll add my questions there
<didrocks> thanks :)
<Laney> yubikeyyyyyyyyyy
<didrocks> Laney: part 3 will be really on the daily release process, what's the bots are doing and so on
<ogra_> seb128, argh ...
<seb128> ogra_, ?
<ogra_> so the file needs to end in .gschema.override, not in .override
<ogra_> :P
 * ogra_ slaps forehead
<seb128> lol
<seb128> sure
<seb128> sorry I didn't pay attention to the filename
<Laney> didrocks: what happened here: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/128756347/indicator-power_12.10.6daily13.01.17-0ubuntu1_12.10.6daily13.01.18-0ubuntu1.diff.gz - no explanation of the changes in the changelog?
<didrocks> Laney: because nobody attached a bug to their branch, I'm keep telling them to do that, please join the effort :)
<Laney> interesting
<xnox> Laney: i guess lp:indicator-power has commit messages.
<Laney> I'm sure it does
<didrocks> right, but commit messages can be noisy and not really explanatory
<didrocks> that's why I decided to limit at bug reports, which is what we generally list for any releases
<Laney> does it use the commit message you can set on MPs if they are set?
<seb128> you also don't want an hundred commit messages listed in debian/changelog if there is an hundred commits
<xnox> "g_type_init() is deprecated as of glib 2.35.4, so bump our glib minimum requirement and remove the g_type_init() call."
<xnox> is the commit message and whould be useful.
<didrocks> xnox: in that case, yeah, but not the general rule
<Laney> I did a MP for something the other day and got told to set a commit message there
<seb128> there is also the changelog spam effect
<xnox> didrocks: what about using first line only? (git-dch style)
<Laney> should those be generally useful?
<xnox> * [-r161] g_type_init() is deprecated as of glib 2.35.4, so bump our glib minimum requirement and ...
<didrocks> xnox: will cut in the middle a commit message, even worse
<didrocks> xnox: they don't use that the "short/long summary"
<didrocks> s/that//
<xnox> clearly we should switch to git then
<seb128> Laney, those are a requirement for the merger bot, not sure why anymore, something to do with the readability of the vcs logs I think
 * xnox hides
<didrocks> Laney: and it's only on the unity stack, different teams are using different flows, other are just taking the description then
<Laney> seb128: Perhaps. I've never known what they are for really but it could be useful in this case
<didrocks> (see part 2 ;))
<didrocks> and I think this doesn't solve the changelog spam
<didrocks> I think important changes needs to have a bug attached
<didrocks> or being just specified manually in debian/changelog as part of the merge
<didrocks> this is more an educational thing than anything else
<didrocks> larsu: btw, can you keep that in mind when reviewing/doing changes please? ^
<larsu> didrocks, is a --fixes lpXXXX on the commit enough?
<larsu> or associating the MR with the bug?
<didrocks> larsu: either the one, or the other, or even just mentionning "this fixes bug #XXXX" any commit message of the changes
<didrocks> s/the one/this/
<didrocks> I'm quite flexible to spot that :)
<didrocks> you don't want to see the regexp :p
<larsu> haha
<larsu> okay :)
<didrocks> thanks!
<Laney> hmmmmm
<larsu> didrocks, np, I actually prefer having a bug reference myself
<larsu> I just forget sometimes
<didrocks> and you get the praise then!
<didrocks> with your name :)
<didrocks> in the changelog :p
<Laney> does it already do one changelog entry per MP?
<didrocks> one changelog entry per bug
<didrocks> as you would find in any NEWS file
<Laney> ack
<Laney> so it feels a bit heavy to make people file bugs when they can just JFDI a fix
<didrocks> Laney: well, if they don't want to file bugs, they can themselve add it to debian/changelog as part of the MP
<didrocks> if they feel it's important enough to get communicated
<Laney> ah, that is allowed eh
<didrocks> yep :)
<Laney> we get to my questions on the pad now
<Laney> so let's leave it here :P
<didrocks> yep :)
<didrocks> and if they already referenced the bug in the changelog
<didrocks> there is no duplication
<BigWhale> What rolling release?! Nooooo.... :>
<BigWhale> This means less release parties :(
<ogra_> just make them bug fixing parties then
<BigWhale> ogra_, I have those on a weekly basis! ;)
<czajkowski> lol
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
<davmor2> BigWhale: What are you on about it means that you have to party everyday for the newly released stuff
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, I'm good, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, just woke up? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i wish :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i've got this for you http://paste.ubuntu.com/1562859/ ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, will you be unhappy if I discard it?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I just noticed this morning, looking at version, that cairo 1.12.10 is out for a week and it includes that fix (with a stack of other ones)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I was going to just do the update
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, that's ok then :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you can do the update if you are looking for launchpad karmas though ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i don't mind doing that
<seb128> chrisccoulson, great, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, http://www.cairographics.org/releases/cairo-1.12.10.tar.xz
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> g_variant_parse doesn't return a floating reference, does it?
<larsu> chrisccoulson, according to gvariant-parser.c, it does
<larsu> docs could be a little more clear there
<larsu> but I think close to everything that gives you a variant gives you a floating ref
<larsu> desrt, right?
<czajkowski> Sweetshark: you know most OSS are on G+ right ;)
<mlankhorst> it's like a glossy magazine for geeks
<czajkowski> so now I get content on there, twitter, and my inbox, 3-4 times o the same story :) fun
 * czajkowski bounces her nexus 7 off a wall 
<mlankhorst> testing the gravity sensor? :P
<czajkowski> my on screen keyboard has vanished
<czajkowski> and I've tried a lot of things now to make it come back
<czajkowski> nothing works and I want it for fosdem
<mlankhorst> can you attach usb?
<czajkowski> mlankhorst: yup
<seb128> czajkowski, is it activated in system settings, universal access, input tab?
<czajkowski> http://ubuntuone.com/0S97eFdCGOGC1Dk6mEeFlZ
<mlankhorst> that's probably not going to work
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> it's not
<mitya57> that's not Universal Access panel, that's Keyboard panel
<seb128> czajkowski, that's not what I asked
<czajkowski> http://ubuntuone.com/0qF9v89DMgQG7jEUGyxzOD
<czajkowski> there?
<seb128> yeah
<czajkowski> seb128: sorry that was a paste from earlier on
<seb128> czajkowski, do you have a keyboard or a ssh access to type commands?
<czajkowski> cant get up the keyboard at all
<seb128> can you ssh to it or plug an usb keyboard for debugging?
<czajkowski> it's plugged in now.
<seb128> czajkowski, can you see if onboard is running (ps ax | grep onboard)
<Sweetshark> czajkowski: echo chambers are fun ;)
<czajkowski> not really :)
<czajkowski> seb128: thank you
<Sweetshark> czajkowski: but one can test on G+, what works and then carry that to the outside world ...
<seb128> czajkowski, yw, good luck
<bcurtiswx> I have  a weird issue with online accounts. It says I have an AIM account that requires authorization once I start empathy, but online accounts has no record of this AIM account. I'm searching for a bad config file somewhere, but not exactly sure where to look. Any ideas?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, run empathy-accounts
<seb128> bcurtiswx, I guess it's an account you configured in empathy itself by then, out of the integrated online accounts
<bcurtiswx> seb128, looks to be the case. thx
<seb128> yw ;-)
<bcurtiswx> if i wanted to issue a command 30 seconds after I lock the screen and have it quit after i return. what would I use ?
<chrisccoulson> larsu, doesn't http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/tree/glib/gvariant-parser.c#n2371 make sure that the GVariant returned is not floating?
<larsu> chrisccoulson, oh, nice catch. I must have read over that, sorry :)
<chrisccoulson> larsu, i think ted must have assumed it returned a floating reference too
<chrisccoulson> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dbusmenu-team/libdbusmenu/trunk.13.04/view/head:/libdbusmenu-glib/server.c#L1061
<chrisccoulson> and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dbusmenu-team/libdbusmenu/trunk.13.04/view/head:/libdbusmenu-glib/menuitem.c#L1659
<chrisccoulson> in fact, everywhere it uses g_variant_parse ;)
<desrt> larsu: no
<desrt> larsu: only constructors
<larsu> chrisccoulson, yes :(
<larsu> desrt, thanks
<desrt> larsu: and you have to pretend that g_variant_builder_end() is called g_variant_new_from_builder() :)
<larsu> haha
<chrisccoulson> fantastic :)
<chrisccoulson> does anyone have some rope i could borrow for a few moments?
<larsu> desrt, another question: g_main_context_pending seems to return FALSE if there are no immediate sources to be dispatched. Is there a function to find out whether there are *any* sources?
<bcurtiswx> dental floss OK ?
<desrt> larsu: you have to poll...
<larsu> :-/
<desrt> so like prepare/query/poll/check
<larsu> this makes writing a loop that stops when no events are attached very hard
<desrt> heh
 * larsu could use that for his tests
<desrt> yup :)
<larsu> desrt, care to add a function that does this?
<desrt> we talked about adding this to gmaincontext
<desrt> but you don't want it
<larsu> why?
<desrt> because 'pending' is a very difficult term
<desrt> is a timeout that will fire in 1 second from now pending?
<larsu> well, I just spend 20 minutes finding out "pending" is not what I thought it meant
<larsu> YES.
<desrt> okay
<desrt> how about a pending async result that will fire 1 second from now?
<larsu> yes
<desrt> that's the problem
<larsu> because you don't know about these?
<desrt> async results don't become GSources until they are (immediately) ready to dispatch
<larsu> right
<desrt> so that made us think maybe we should have like g_main_context_hold() as a sort of special "don't exit now!" ref
<desrt> then the whole thing just started feeling too much like GApplication
<larsu> hm, and that's a bad thing?
<desrt> meh
<desrt> it would require changes everywhere
<desrt> everyone who may at some point add an idle would have to call this hold()
<desrt> i guess GTask and GSimpleAsyncResult could be updated to do that...
<desrt> but this is starting to get out of hand, wouldn't you agree?
<desrt> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=690126 is the bug btw
<ubot2> Gnome bug 690126 in gdbus "Do not quit mainloop while there are pending GSources" [Normal,Assigned]
<larsu> desrt, agreed. It seemed like an easy thing at first :)
<desrt> larsu: did you do a lesson yet? :)
<larsu> desrt, no :(
<desrt> dude
<desrt> you're going to be in toronto in two weeks and unable to speak the local language
<larsu> there's just so much other stuff I need to take care of
<desrt> lessons are quick :p
<larsu> I do have the tab open, does that count?
<larsu> for something?
<desrt> hahahah
<desrt> you TODO list by tab, hm?
<larsu> not usually, only in this case
<larsu> because I actually meant to do it :)
<desrt> whenever i see ken he always says "haven't heard from lars yet..."
<larsu> he already know me?
<larsu> *knows
<desrt> he knows you will be sending lessons soon :)
<larsu> heh
<didrocks> grrr, on 3G
<dobey> seb128: can i get you or someone to look at my patch on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-keyring/+bug/859600 please?
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 859600 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Precise) "Please convert gnome-keyring to multiarch" [High,In progress]
<seb128> dobey, will have a look
<dobey> seb128: thanks
<xnox> dobey: i think last time around this was attempted, the use case was to have the library co-installed and the problem was that the /etc/ conffile encodes multiarch path.
<xnox> which means that conf file is no longer the same across all architectures and thus failing to co-install.
<xnox> has this been addressed?
 * xnox can't figure that bit out just by looking at the patch.
 * xnox didn't build both amd64/i386 & try to co-install them yet.
<dobey> xnox: which conf file?
<xnox> let me dig into it. 1sec.
<dobey> xnox: i have them co-installed on my machine from my ppa right now.
<xnox> awesome =)
<dobey> xnox: the p11kit conf file only has the module name in it
<xnox> hmm..
<dobey> /etc/pkcs11/modules/gnome-keyring.module that file, that is
<xnox> dobey: why is the patch against oneiric and not raring?!
<dobey> xnox: eh?
<dobey> +gnome-keyring (3.6.2-0ubuntu2) raring; urgency=low
<xnox> dobey: i downloaded not your patch...
<dobey> xnox: you're not looking at *my* patch :)
<xnox> i was looking at your patch, but my clipboard had the other url in it...
<dobey> oh
<xnox> =) all is fine now.
<dobey> thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, still working on that cairo update?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, if you do, please include http://cgit.freedesktop.org/cairo/commit/?id=fa4f48cccb6c7f4e1afb2ff4b98b906b7d8d4afc , it fixes a regression from the new version
<seb128> c.f bug #1101316
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1101316 in cairo (Ubuntu) "Evince switches to wrong page while scrolling in continuous mode" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1101316
<LIDH> Hello, I have Ubuntu 12.10 and a POS system EBN X-950 with touchscreen (EgalaxyTouch according to the manual), so, i tried $lsusb and it doesn't list the touchscreen controller. If I do a screen /dev/ttyS[0-4] can't get any input from the touchscreen. Already did $ modprobe -r usbtouchscreen and still doesn't detect, any ideas what's the problem?
<dobey> LIDH: #ubuntu is the general help channel
<LIDH> ok
<LIDH> thank you but i've already post there, and no one helped me :s
<dobey> well be patient
<dobey> if you're impatient, nobody will want to help you :)
<sarnold> LIDH: check 'dmesg' output for information, you might get lucky
<robru> xnox, thanks for fixing bug 1099589 ;-)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1099589 in devscripts (Ubuntu) "wrap-and-sort crashed with TypeError in save(): must be str, not bytes" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1099589
<xnox> robru: np =)
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128. sorry, was away for dinner and exercise
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll include that change too
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no worry, thanks ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I hope for you it's "exercise and dinner", not good to go to cycle after eating ;-)
<robru> mterry, if you get a sec I'd like to ask you some questions about that mp you sent me
<mterry> robru, the deja-dup one?  sure
<robru> mterry, yeah, so, what steps should I take to ensure that your change is working
<robru> ?
<mterry> robru, well make check is always good, but I only fixed the existing tests to work with the code change, I didn't add any new tests for it, because I didn't know how to fake partitions without root access
<mterry> robru, so I personally verified it manually.   The trick is to do a backup from a partition that is different than the partition /tmp is on
<mterry> robru, then run "G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=all deja-dup --backup" and notice the arguments we pass to duplicity.  There should be a --tempdir with an appropriate (same partition as source files) directory
<robru> mterry, yeah, that's what i meant. so my home directory is different than tmp
<mterry> robru, so deja-dup should pass ~/.cache/deja-dup/tmp as tempdir to duplicity
<robru> mterry, oh, btw, I started using deja-dup for my actual, real $HOME backups. Will that command interfere with the backups I have going?
<robru> should i make a dummy user for this? ;-)
<mterry> robru, it will use your normal settings to make a backup yeah.  But it won't (shouldn't) interfere with them, just start a new backup
<robru> mterry, so it'll try to backup all 500GBs then? maybe I will make a dummy user ;-)
<mterry> robru, you also might want to double confirm that ~/.cache/deja-dup/tmp is empty after the run
<mterry> robru, well, it will do an incremental or whatever, but if you haven't made a first backup yet, then yah.  dummy or change your backup settings momentarily
<robru> mterry, ok, great. I'll try it out shortly. thanks
<robru> mterry, I'm getting a weird xmllint error on 'make check'
<mterry> xmllint?
<mterry> paste me
<robru> mterry, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1564351/ does this mean anything to you?
<robru> probably a missing dep or something simple
<mterry> robru, oh, I bet the gnome-docs automake stuff is missing a dep on the 'all' target for the 'check' target
<robru> but I'm not sure
<mterry> robru, run make && make check
<robru> ahhh
<robru> in unrelated news, today I found a little netbook of mine that's been in storage since November. It had raring installed on it... now I'm just installing all 905 updates ;-)
<robru> mterry, ok, xmllint is passing, tests are going ok so far, just have to do the manual checks and then I'll approve your branch
<mterry> robru, cool.  Thanks!
<mterry> robru, heh, only 905?!
<robru> mterry, well, it was put in storage *late* in november ;-)
<robru> so just 905 updates for december/jan
<mterry> :)
<robru> mterry, ok, so if I see '--tempdir=/home/robru/.cache/deja-dup/tmp' in the debugging output, then that for sure means it worked? ~/.cache/deja-dup/tmp directory was never used prior to this branch?
<mterry> robru, right
<mterry> robru, nor was --tempdir either
<robru> mterry, k, great. just gonna peruse the diff briefly then approve ;-)
<mterry> robru, I just noticed something myself looking at the diff
<robru> oh?
<mterry> robru, I changed DuplicityInstance.start from normal to async.  And thus dropped it's 'throw Error' line
<robru> ... ok?
<mterry> robru, but, when I called it from DuplicityJob before, I would bubble up the error message via show_error().  In this new diff, the error message gets swallowed by DuplicityInstance and the user will end up just seeing a generic "Unknown error" message
<mterry> robru,  let me fix that real quick
<robru> ok
<robru> mterry, oh, I like the way you allow this tempdir logic to be overridden by an env variable. That's thinking ahead ;-)
<mterry> robru, I fixed the issue I found locally, but I decided to write a test for this case for the future.  But I have to run.  So I'll update tomorrow
<robru> mterry, ok
<mterry> robru, thanks for the review!
<robru> mterry, yw, have a good night!
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-01-24
<bryce> stgraber, is there a way to get pastebinit to post to paste.canonical.com or does the need for 2fa interfere with that?
<stgraber> bryce: it's sadly not possible. One way would be for IS to allow posting without authentication and only requiring authentication to access the pastes, I mentioned it a couple of times in #is but nothing was done.
<bryce> mm
<bryce> stgraber, ok thanks
<bryce> stgraber, would be nice having some way to get X logs shared to co-workers for private projects.  Back to scp I guess.  :-)
<robru> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/raring-desktop-armhf+omap4.img 22MBs??! is that right>
<robru> ??
<TheMuso> robru: No I don't think so.
<robru> hmmm
<robru> TheMuso, any tips on how to get my pandaboard up and running?
<sarnold> robru: I installed my pandaboard with 12.04's prepared filesystem image and upgraded to 12.10 a few minutes later (the prepared filesystem approach looked way simpler)
<bryce> robert_ancell, where are you hung up?
<bryce> bah
<bryce> robru, where are you hung up?
<bryce> robru, I referenced ogra's google hangout walk-thru.  It took me a few tries but I got set up on both quantal and raring
<robru> bryce, well, I'm following https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuEngineering/QA/PandaboardNotes except that the filesystem image that it told me to download is only 22MBs, as if 22MBs was large enough for a full raring install
<robru> so for laughs I just went and grabbed an android image for this thing, and that was able to boot to the point of drawing an animated 'android' logo on my screen, but it doesn't seem to actually boot past that.
<robru> (so I know my screen, pandaboard, sd card, etc all seem to be working at least). now I just need to find a working image.
<robru> bryce, oh, android just booted ;-)
<bryce> robru, yeah 22M sounds like something broke in the builder.  Can't find the img I used but believe it was 700+ MB
<bryce> yeah the 12.10 image is 726M - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/12.10/release/
<robru> LOL, android interface on a 24" monitor with a mouse is remarkably terrible -- keyboard not working, so I have to use a hilariously enormouse onscreen keyboard... and my mouse sensitivity is just pitiful.
<desrt> robru: mouse sensitivity is gonna be low when normally the entire display is only a few hundred pixels wide
<robru> desrt, yeah. this would be the best tablet ever if it was a touchscreen. but as is it's just awful
<sarnold> nexus 4 screen is 1280x768, larger than some laptops / netbooks ...
<desrt> sarnold: nexus 4 is a bit of an exception
<desrt> it's got something like the nicest screen on earth, from the reviews i've read
<sarnold> hehe
 * desrt really wants google to fail at something that they try
<sarnold> desrt: orkut? :)
<desrt> i just hope it's not the broadband thing...
<desrt> oh ya... and google plus isn't doing so hot either
<sarnold> well, okay, orkut is going great in brazil last i heard. but still..
<desrt> and buzz was a failure
<desrt> as was wave
<desrt> ya okay... google has failed at a lot
<desrt> i'm happy
<sarnold> and google tv died shortly after release as the major content owners decided they'd rather not let google play in their sandbox
<desrt> didn't intel hit a similar roadbump very recently?
<robru> desrt, ooh, I found a setting for pointer speed. excellent!
<desrt> robru: try 11?
<TheMuso> robru: You could always grab a netboot image for raring, and run the text installer and set up Ubuntu that way, thats how I usually do it.
<TheMuso> Only caviot with that way is you have to install the proprietary omap4 display drivers.
<TheMuso> The desktop image for pandaboard normally includes that driver, at least for raring.
<bryce> robru, or install the quantal image and then try upgrading.
<robru> bryce, ok, getting the quantal image now. Running android on a giant screen was fun though ;-)
<robru> alright, 12.10 booted on the pandaboard, showed the loading splash, then the screen went black, but the indicators continue to flash. I assume it's just thinking slowly ;-)
<TheMuso> robru: hard to say... What media did you install to?
<robru> just booting off the SD card for the first time
<robru> (took me a while to download it)
<TheMuso> Ok, yeah it does take a while to come up.
<TheMuso> I hope you are installing to a USB rotery disk.
<sarnold> uhoh :) why>
<robru> TheMuso, actually I do have a USB HDD that I'll be installing to
<robru> TheMuso, do you know what it means if STATUS1 light blinks twice, then pauses?
<TheMuso> robru: No I don't.
<robru> TheMuso, according to http://omappedia.org/wiki/PandaBoard_FAQ#What_do_these_blinking_LEDs_on_PandaBoard_mean.3F it means, more or less, 'normal operation'. status2 indicates hd access and status1 by default just blinks twice per second.
<sarnold> does the speed of the blinking seem to change over the course of booting to you guys too? I wondered if I was going nuts or not.. :)
<TheMuso> It changes according to CPU load for me sometimes.
<TheMuso> Or IO activity at least.
<sarnold> since mine's in my bedroom, I turned off the lights :) but now I've got an interest in turning the heartbeat back on and trying putting it under cpu load..
<robru> hmmm,  yeah, so I can't get this to boot. it showed the bootsplash, and I hit escape and it showed me a bunch of upstart stuff, then the screen powered down and hasn't come back since
<TheMuso> I wonder if you don't have the proprietary omap4 driver installed.
<TheMuso> s/don't//
<bryce> robru, do you have the sd card still inserted?
<robru> bryce, yep.
<robru> TheMuso, nothing is "installed", I'm talking about a fresh boot off the quantal omap4 image. it shows the bootsplash then the screen powers down. no installation happens
<sarnold> didn't till go through this? what was his solution...
<TheMuso> robru: Yes but I mean installed onto the live image.
<pitti> Good morning
<desrt> pitti: the hours you keep grow stranger and stranger
<pitti> desrt: today I got up with my wife; I usually do that in summer, but most of the time in winter I still sleep an hour
<pitti> but damn brain wouldn't let me this morning
<amoma> gnome terminal wants to install a font. How disable it?
<desrt> amoma: i don't think it's gnome-terminal that's doing that...
<robru> desrt, amoma: actually, one time I accidentally cat'ed a binary file and gnome-terminal tried to interpret random data as unicode, and tried to install some weird fonts to display strange foreign unicode codepages... but I just hit 'cancel' and it cancelled...
<desrt> robru: ya.  i've had that as well
<desrt> but i think it's something inside of gtk or pango or something that detects that and spawns something offering to install it
<robru> ahh
<jibel> good morning
<amoma>  gnome terminal wants to install a font. How disable it?
<amoma> any solutions?
<amoma> yes it is during browsing by binary files in opened in terminal
<amoma> it is highly useful to search binaries for strings
<amoma> for example firefox trying to dns badware even if all config strings are replacet eg to 127
<amoma> so searching where the 'badware' string is located resort to firefox.so
<amoma> etc... i want this message to turn off. It is annoying
<amoma> every 2 3 screean popp rando message, as Thai, Cherokee, Kilgons, Kanda...
<amoma>  gnome terminal wants to install a font. How disable it?
<amoma> of course instaling the fonts is not an option , instling the fonts will render binary file as some uni-codes, which will consist a serious nonsense
<didrocks> good morning
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<robru> amoma, you should use the command 'strings' to extract strings from a binary. this will hide the binary garbage and stop the message from being displayed.
<didrocks> hey robru, still up? :)
<didrocks> robru: I think you saw that jenkins is not that kind with your branch, I think this will be your tasks for tomorrow :)
<robru> didrocks, hey. I am slowly trying to get to bed. 1AM here ;-)
<didrocks> robru: you should go! tomorrow, we have this hangout ;)
<robru> oh crap, forgot about that! that's at 8AM, too
<didrocks> do you want that we delay that?
<robru> didrocks, no no, 7hrs of sleep is enough ;-)
<didrocks> ok :)
<robru> didrocks, goodnight ;-)
<didrocks> robru: have a good night!
<Laney> hey
<didrocks> hey Laney
<amoma> robu :only if the string is plaintext string
<amoma> robru,
<amoma> 'gnome-terminal wants to install a font'. How disable automatic font installation?
<bochecha_> amoma: on Fedora there's a package to remove if you want to disable this: PackageKit-gtk3-module, maybe there is something similar on Ubuntu?
<Laney> If you're talking about packagekit, I thought that the terminal was supposed to be blacklisted?
<lool> seb128: I've realized there were many pages on the Nexus 7 on the wiki already, so I've built upon them and captured the smem tips on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/MeasuringMemoryUsage
<Laney> try gsettings get org.gnome.packagekit ignored-dbus-requests
<seb128> lool, thanks
<chrisccoulson> is nautilus maxing out anyone else's cpu?
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128 :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, nautilus: not for me and I didn't see any report or mention of it
<pitti> chrisccoulson: o/
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it's been horribly slow for a while now for me
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, salut, ca va ?
<pitti> Ã§a va bien!
<pitti> et toi?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti: is "maxing out cpu" while using it, or is it sitting there eating cpu for you?
<seb128> pitti, ca va bien merci ;-)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - ah, it's spinning the CPU on thumbnailing my wallpaper in my home directory
<pitti> while using it mostly, and when opening a new window
<chrisccoulson> if i switch to a directory without png's in it, it's fine
<pitti> i. e. the window opens, then it takes ages to show contents
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is that image changing?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, no, the image is static
<seb128> weird
<chrisccoulson> it actually never finishes thumbnailing here
<pitti> even for directories with very few thumbnails
<pitti> my ~/src has 6 directories and two files, takes 5 seconds
<jibel> nautilus even died here while browsing the pictures directory
<chrisccoulson> seb128, this is the image it seems to fail on: http://people.canonical.com/~chrisccoulson/Nightly_wallpaper.png
<seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti: did those issues start recently? I don't get any such bug here
<seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti: nautilus didn't change for weeks though, I would tend to blame the new glib/gvfs
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm not sure when it started for me. i only just noticed now that it's using a lot of cpu
<pitti> seb128: I'm not quite sure when it started, I don't use nautilus that often; but certainly at least two weeks or so
<seb128> chrisccoulson, nautilus thumbnails that file just fine for me
<pitti> waay before new glib/gvfs
<seb128> k, maybe it's a 64b issue
<seb128> no such problem on my i386 install
<pitti> I open ~/src, nautilus goes 100% for some 5 seconhds, and then quiet again
<pitti> peut-Ãªtre
<seb128> how many items do you have in there?
<pitti> seb128: pitti | my ~/src has 6 directories and two files, takes 5 seconds
<seb128> urg, k
<chrisccoulson> seb128, hmmm, it thumbnails it fine for me if i copy it to my desktop too
<chrisccoulson> i wonder if it's another file in my home folder
<seb128> chrisccoulson, usually .svg create such issues
<seb128> do you have any of those?
<seb128> well the most frequent case is having a .svg that librsvg struggles with
<seb128> pitti, do you have images or files that needs thumbnailing in ~/src?
<pitti> seb128: a .hs and a .py file, both of which are thumbnailed as text
<pitti> let me try with a directory which just has subdirs
<pitti> same, 5 seconds
<seb128> hum, k
<seb128> any chance you can run it under gdb, ctrl-C during those 5 seconds and get a bt?
<pitti> currently stracing
<pitti> whoa, it's reading a gazillion SVG files
<seb128> located where?
<pitti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1565679/
<pitti> that's what happens (only opens, not the parsing) when I attach strace to an already running/initialized nautilus and open ~/src
<pitti> once I have a window open, I can change directories with no delay
<pitti> but each new window takes 5 seconds again
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ^ is that the same for you? i. e. does it really depend on the folder for you?
<pitti> so not only it reads SVG icons for icons that it doesn't need to show in that folder, it's even reading the same files many times
<seb128> pitti, reading those files don't seem to be the issue
<seb128> you have a 5 seconds gap in between 2 files in that
<seb128> log
<pitti> hm right, line 113
<pitti> although it's still wrong to re-read all those icons
<pitti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1565690/ is the full trace
<pitti> I'm reading from the point of "11:37:27.496294"
<pitti> lots of nautilus_directory_monitor_add_internal() calls
 * pitti wonders where he got all those ~/.local/share/locale/ files from
<pitti> oh, that would be jhbuild
<pitti> moving away  doesn't help either
<seb128> try gdb and bt during those 5 seconds
<seb128> re-reading the icons seems buggy indeed
<seb128> but it shouldn't account for that many seconds
<seb128> those are small svg files, and the strace timestamps indicates it's not spending seconds going through
<pitti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1565704/ and http://paste.ubuntu.com/1565706/ are two different BTs during that 5 seconds
<pitti> doesn't tell me much, though
<larsu> haha, I just commented on a MR and launchpad cut off the *last* sentence with a "More..." link
<seb128> pitti, ooooh
<seb128> pitti, grep TEMPLATE ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs
<pitti> XDG_TEMPLATES_DIR="$HOME/.local/share"
<seb128> pitti, that's likely it
<seb128> pitti, makes it point to ~/Templates
<seb128> or an empty dir something
<pitti> hm, how did it end up there? thanks!
<seb128> yw
<seb128> I hate that template feature
<pitti> that explains why "new file" shows sooo much crap
<seb128> the usual case is that users delete ~/Template and that nautilus fallbacks to the parent dir, e.g ~
<seb128> which makes nautilus parse all your files to create an endless template menu
<seb128> which takes ages and eat your cpu
<seb128> you got a small version of that...
<seb128> still weird that it landed on .local/share
<pitti> wow! lightning fast again!
<bochecha_> seb128: I thought when deleting a XDG folder, it was recreated next time the session opened?
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<bochecha_> at least that's what I've always seen here
<seb128> bochecha_, it might, but in between .config/user-dirs.dirs is updated to point to an existant dir, e.g the parent directory usually
<seb128> with nothing changing it back on next login
<bochecha_> :-/
<seb128> we discussed that issue in the past
<seb128> ideally we should make those dir impossible to delete and explain the users why
<seb128> or turn off the fallback and just disable the feature when the pointed dir doesn't exist
<bochecha_> well, not necessarily
<bochecha_> there's a DESKTOP folder in there, if you make it impossible to delete, then people running GNOME Shell will wonder where there documents are disappearing :)
<seb128> things is that users delete e.g ~/Music because they have their media files in ~/Multimedia or something
<seb128> or photos
<seb128> then softwares like rhythmbox or shotwell get very confused
<bochecha_> well, they are pointing to XDG_MUSIC_DIR, not to ~/Music
<bochecha_> what is missing is a way to reassign those variables to the preferred folders of the user
<seb128> right, but no user knows to edit .config/user-dirs.dirs to point XDG_MUSIC_DIR to ~/Multimedia/zic
<seb128> so they just get bitten by it
<seb128> over and over
<seb128> oh well, one day we will solve that
<bochecha_> I actually always reassign XDG_DESKTOP_DIR to ~, I'm glad I never did the same with TEMPLATE ^_^
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> pitti, how would you recommend adding launchers to the nautilus desktop in ubuntu-defaults-image?
<seb128> pitti, using an hook to do a symlink, e.g Desktop/firefox.desktop -> /usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop?
<pitti> seb128: create a .desktop file somewhere, and add it to unity/launchers.txt
<pitti> seb128: oh, to the actual desktop, not the unity launcher
<seb128> pitti, well, I don't want it on the launcher, I want it on the background (e.g in ~/Desktop)
<pitti> seb128: second, phone
<seb128> pitti, sure, no hurry
<seb128> pitti, is there any way to add a gsettings schemas override there? or should I just add it in the debian dir and hack the rules to install it?
<pitti> seb128: yes, you can still use the full power of debian/ to install additional files of course
<pitti> debian/package.install, no need to hack rules :)
<pitti> or debian/package.links for your .desktop above
<seb128> pitti, I was going to add a debian/<source>.gsettings-override, but it's a bit weird since u-d-b already creates one for the launcher overrides
<seb128> well I guess it's fine to have 2 overrides
<mitya57> hi Mirv, did you test your qt5 packages on desktop (or you're interested only in mobile ui)?
<mitya57> it currently looks identical to windows 2000 :/
<mitya57> I managed to (a) get the icon theme working (by writing an XSettings implementation with libxcb)
<mitya57> (b) get qtconfig compile (it allows me to select a nice theme, but does not actually apply it)
<mitya57> (both patches sent upstream)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how is the cairo update going?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, need help testing it? ;-)
<toabctl> seb128, there's a dh_installgsettings helper. maybe that's what you want to use?
<seb128> toabctl, thanks, I know about it, but no, ubuntu-defaults-builder is already using <source>.gsettings-override for creating the launcher config so I would conflict with the built-in feature
<seb128> dh_installgsettings only consider <source>.gsettings-override, there doesn't seem to be a way to call it on another file
<seb128> but I've just created the override in debian/ and listed it in <source>.install
<seb128> so that's ok
<cyphermox> good morning!
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, how are you today?
<cyphermox> good, you?
<toabctl> hi cyphermox
<seb128> good as well
<cyphermox> hey toabctl, sup
<Mirv> mitya57: I've tested those every now and the a little, like compiling and running examples apps. possibly someone has tested much more.
<Mirv> mitya57: so it's likely it should work relatively fine
<mitya57> Mirv: doesn't it look like https://ubuntuone.com/3PqFHHvDpLwCNSaFOnNmmY ?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, i've done that, but then got sidetracked on this nautilus issue
<chrisccoulson> seb128, we need http://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus/commit/libnautilus-private/nautilus-thumbnails.c?id=860f748ab2f47be2a604f89bd86e9499380f82a8 for the current nautilus to work with the new glib
<chrisccoulson> basically, nautilus and glib now have different ideas about the thumbnail path, which is triggering a continuous loop
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, nice
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I just opened https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=692444 as well
<ubot2> Gnome bug 692444 in Thumbnails "Invalid read of size 4 in thumbnail_read_callback" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm not sure to understand why the new glib creates a loop for nautilus thumbnailing, but I trust you if you say so ... going to backport that fix? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, actually hold on a second
<chrisccoulson> i still might be missing something yet :)
<seb128> no hurry
<chrisccoulson> basically, what is happening here is that glib says the thumbnail path is /home/chr1s/.cache/thumbnails/large/f030a33a884d2c13e4360c78ef5c04c0.png, but nautilus creates the thumbnail in /home/chr1s/.cache/thumbnails/normal/f030a33a884d2c13e4360c78ef5c04c0.png
<chrisccoulson> so when it reads the wrong thumbnail and comares the mtime stored in the metadata, it thinks it's out of date, and then tries again
<chrisccoulson> but i'm not sure why it's only for this image
<chrisccoulson> and only in my home folder
<seb128> weird indeed, maybe try asking #cosimoc on #nautilus on irc.gnome.org if he saw issues like that before
<chrisccoulson> oh
<chrisccoulson> glib returns that path merely because there is a thumbnail in /home/chr1s/.cache/thumbnails/large
<chrisccoulson> so i wonder what put that there?
<seb128> did you run a jhbuild version that might have created it?
<chrisccoulson> no, i'm just using stock raring
<chrisccoulson> -rw------- 1 chr1s chr1s 35482 Jan 11 04:16 f030a33a884d2c13e4360c78ef5c04c0.png
<chrisccoulson> so, i guess i need to hunt down whatever is creating thumbnails in there :)
<Mirv> mitya57: do you mean lacking themes? aren't themes mostly a KDE thing anyhow, and normal Qt applications look a bit basic?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, is that an issue that you get high quality thumbnails? that shouldn't make nautilus gets crazy...
<Mirv> (at least compared to gtk apps having ambience applied)
<chrisccoulson> sure enough, moving that file out of the way fixes it and stops nautilus using lots of CPU
<Mirv> mitya57: anyhow, I've most of all tested Qt Quick applications, not so much Qt Widgets apps
<mitya57> Mirv: apps like Vlc or Virtualbox still need to look fine on any desktop...
<mitya57> I guess they just have dropped Gtk2 themes support, but I would at least like to use "Fusion" theme
<Mirv> mitya57: yes, similar to how they run on Qt4, but that also needs the apps to port to Qt5 - Qt4 will stay the default for 13.04 at least AFAIK
<Mirv> I don't know if apps like Vlc or Virtualbox port themselves to Qt5 before eg. KDE starts using Qt5 more
<Mirv> even though porting is quite easy (eg. http://www.kdab.com/porting-from-qt-4-to-qt-5/)
<Mirv> and http://qt-project.org/wiki/Transition_from_Qt_4.x_to_Qt5 is even shorter list
<mitya57> Mirv: I know that porting is easy, but most of my Qt code is PyQt, so I'll need to wait a little with that
<mitya57> Mirv: btw, I've just discovered that qttools debian/watch does not work (and probably for some other components)
<mitya57> you may want to apply something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/1566016/
<Mirv> mitya57: ah, good catch, I can at least mark that down. the lintian exception would also need updating for others than qtbase
<Mirv> thanks
<Mirv> I've now been packaging first snapshots of some non-core modules like qtsensors
<Mirv> but those I haven't yet committed towards Debian at all (not sure if they'd be interested in them before there are releases)
<mitya57> Mirv: to sum up: thanks for your work on qt5 packages! and feel free to ping me if you become interested in the desktop integration.
<Mirv> mitya57: no problem :) 99% of the packaging is aimed to be done in Debian, so contributions are most welcome there if they just aren't Kubuntu/Ubuntu specific
<Mirv> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/ -> pkg-kde/qt/*
<mitya57> yes, I know, I built my packages from that repos :)
<Mirv> but you're right in that currently I'm not looking directly at desktop applications, because it's not yet happening for most part
<Mirv> cool :)
<mitya57> I'll be maybe interested in mobile ui if PyQt is available there
<Mirv> I joined Debian's pkg-kde because of this effort, it's pretty nice in there
<Mirv> yeah let's see what becomes of PyQt & PySide (I'm not up-to-date at all)
<mitya57> I'll wait for their next release which added support for 5.0.0 final, and play with that to see if it's possible to use our ui-toolkit in pyqt
<mitya57> *will add
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i've put the cairo update in http://people.canonical.com/~chrisccoulson/ btw
<chrisccoulson> it doesn't seem to break anything here :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, great, let me build/test it and then upload
<seb128> chrisccoulson, works fine for me as well, uploading
<chrisccoulson> cool, thanks
<seb128> can't believe that cairo's tarball is 41M
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks for the update ;-)
<KC4LZN> Are there any references, paid or free, on how to write udev rules other than the man pages or this website? http://reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html
<cyphermox> someone here was asking about the doubled signatures in evo 3.6.0 in quantal, and about getting 3.6.2 in quantal -- FYI that's been in quantal-proposed for a few days now
<cyphermox> KC4LZN: seems like a pretty good reference. I'm not thinking of other ones right now
<KC4LZN> *as
<dobey> hey, how come all my qt apps look like windows 95 on raring now? what happened to the theme?
<bryce> will be out a couple hrs this am; checking out preschools.
<Laney> soudns like fun ;-)
<Sweetshark> lol? https://github.com/search?p=6&q=path%3A.ssh%2Fid_rsa
<mpt> mterry, I'm trying your update-manager branch. There's a list branch for "Firefox Web Browser", but firefox-locale-ar and firefox-locale-en are outside that branch. Do you know why that might be?
<mterry> mpt, ah...  I bet because firefox doesn't depend on them.  I imagine the language pack does?
<mterry> mpt, it *might* suggest them.  But doubtful
<desrt> mterry: hey... how's the file picker coming along?
<mterry> desrt, I haven't done much work on it, it might get postponed a cycle because of mobile focus
<mterry> mpt, "reverse-depends firefox-locale-ar" shows language-pack-ar-base
<mpt> mterry, huh, it seems like the language packs themselves don't have any dependencies at all!
<mterry> mpt, firefox-locale-en doesn't have any no
<mterry> mpt, but language-pack-ar-base does
<mpt> mterry, that seems ... fragile. Dependency via replacement.
<mterry> mpt, ?  does it?  Maybe I've misrepresented something
<mterry> language-pack-ar -> language-pack-ar-base -> firefox-locale-ar
<mpt> mterry, no, I mean, strange packaging. Not strange Software Updater behavior.
<mterry> Yar, but there's no replacement happening
<Sweetshark> seb128: package updated on people.canonical.com
<Sweetshark> (and on chinstrap)
<mpt> mterry, overall this looks splendid. Were you able to test any package with XB-Restart-Required set?
<mterry> mpt, only by faking it.  It's not 100% done.  The icon appears on left, but the string doesn't appear on bottom.  I'll fix that later with a separate branch.  Plus, we need to get some packages to use it
<mpt> sure :-)
<mterry> mpt, awesome.  Well, I guess I'll push it into trunk/distro then!  :)
<mterry> mpt, on my blog post about it, there were quite a few comments about not showing the package name anymore
<mterry> mpt, (note that I added it in the changelog section though)
<mterry> mpt, but I think it looks fine, the only bummer is when there are identical labels.  But those are arguably package bugs.  The debian policy says the label should make sense even without seeing the package name
<mpt> mterry, yes. Containers get blamed for their contents. Notify OSD got blamed for bad notification text, Ubuntu Software Center got blamed for bad package descriptions, now Software Updater is being blamed for bad labels.
<mterry> :)
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<mterry> mpt, what wasn't working with the tri-state checkboxes?  I didn't notice a problem in my quick testing
<mpt> mterry, unfortunately I specified it in detail only in private e-mail to dylanmccall :-)
<mterry> mpt, ah  :)
<mpt> mterry, basically that when a parent checkbox is in the indeterminate state, clicking it three times should return it to the indeterminate state.
<mpt> It's a cycle: indeterminate -> checked -> unchecked -> indeterminate
<mterry> mpt, ah interesting.  Sure.  OK, good.  as long as I'm not going to be pushing a bug, just a lack of feature
<seb128> hum
<seb128> desrt, pitti: do you see where/why that build is failing https://launchpadlibrarian.net/129298794/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-amd64.glib2.0_2.35.4-1~ppa2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ?
<desrt> pbuilder using a line of ****** as separators makes it kinda hard to search for make errors :)
<desrt> hmm
<desrt> GLib:ERROR:/build/buildd/glib2.0-2.35.4/./glib/tests/gwakeuptest.c:107:context_clear: assertion failed: (ctx->pending_tokens == NULL)
<desrt> this has my name written all over it :(
<desrt> seb128: did you try resubmitting the build?
<desrt> nothing changed in this area recently so i think you probably found a very thin race
<seb128> desrt, yes
<desrt> did it work?
<seb128> that's the second failure in a row
<desrt> ohhh
<desrt> weird!
<desrt> anything change about the builders recently, like kernel or something?
<seb128> well, I'm backporting some commits over 2.35.4
<desrt> hmm
<desrt> seb128: is this the first 2.35 you've taken?
<seb128> desrt, well, 2.35.4 built
<seb128> so either something changed in distro
<seb128> or it's one of my 4 backports
<desrt> so this is a result of your backports
<desrt> huh
<desrt> i guess you didn't take anything related
<desrt> gwakeup hasn't had anyone touching it since last year...
<desrt> nor has the testcase
<desrt> what commits did you pick?
<seb128> http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=f24594122c3e3c66702ff537d3468ed251838007
<seb128> http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=e908b50371a5052d7a9690b3409ae028d46540b4
<seb128> http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=b0d5ce16782cc06712456ffa6b8a7521a70bcd1e
<seb128> and I reverted
<seb128> http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=5eba9784979e0b723c05a45cf767046607e4e759
<desrt> so uh
<desrt> 3 of those are in gio and the other is about timezones
<seb128> since it's buggy and I care less about btrfs optimization atm than about nautilus segfaulting
<desrt> resubmit the unpatched glib and see if it fails
<seb128> ok
<desrt> could easily be caused by a new kernel
<mpt> mterry, have you reported bugs for XB-Restart-Required? If not, should I report ones for linux and glib at least?
<desrt> doesn't mean it's still not my fault, of course...
<mterry> mpt, I haven't started that yet, no
<mterry> mpt, sure.  glibc or glib?
<mpt> glibc
<mterry> mpt, yeah, linux and glibc make sense
<mterry> mpt, linux-meta is the source I believe
<mpt> ta
<mpt> mterry, <https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux> has 3869 open bug reports, <https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta> has 5...
<mterry> mpt, well...  linux-meta is *a* source.  But the restart is probably actually triggered by the specific linux sources
<lifeless> mpt: oh hi, I'm up early enough to chat :)
<mterry> mpt, linux-meta makes the generic packages like linux-image
<lifeless> mpt: is there some way (even if its just planned) to get rid of the 'reboot required' dialog without killing the proces by hand ?
<mpt> lifeless, 6:52am?
<lifeless> mpt: yeah, had to drop Lynne at the airport at 5am
<lifeless> mpt: which is a totally antisocial hour.
<mterry> mpt, but linux is a better source to file agains in this case I agree
<mpt> lifeless, this page is sitting immediately to the left of my PC right now: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/128716123/p11.jpg
<mpt> I just haven't finished speccing it yet
<desrt> seb128: there may be a small issue in the test
<lifeless> mpt: cool
<desrt> seb128: the entire testcase depends on going to sleep on a GWakeup waiting for the test to finish and waking up when the poll returns
<desrt> seb128: we don't check for EINTR returned from the poll, so it's possible that if someone delivers a signal to the process while the test is running we could wake up early and fail
<desrt> could be something as innocent as a window size change
<desrt> alternatively, though, i notice that we do alarm(60) for this test... maybe the SIGALRM is getting delivered because we hit the time limit
<seb128> desrt, seems not likely on a builder though
<desrt> hard to imagine a test that takes <1s on my laptop would take over a minute on a builder, though?
<seb128> I doubt as well
<desrt> plus.. that would cause it to fail like
<desrt> /gwakeup/threaded: Alarm clock
<desrt> not the assert we see
<seb128> the full build is around 30min, and glib is built 3 times
<desrt> so i'm left with two theories: the kernel changed and somehow eventfd no longer works the same as it used to
<desrt> -or- we're getting some weird signal delivered causing poll() to return -1 (EINTR)
<seb128> desrt, let's see if the previous version fails the same way
<desrt> i sure hope so
<seb128> bah, it built on i386 (the new version which failed twice on amd64)
<seb128> could be a race...
<seb128> Laney, pitti: ^ did you run into any glib testsuite issue when updated to 2.35.4?
<Laney> no failures here
<mpt> mterry, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=xb-restart-required
<Laney> I always built with parallel=9
<desrt> seb128: any new gcc or libc uploads lately?
<mterry> mpt, awesome
<seb128> desrt, no
<desrt> seb128: http://www.fpaste.org/847H/
<desrt> seb128: if you could get me a failure with that patch attached i'd appreciate it
<seb128> desrt, let me reupload my version with that patch ;-)
<desrt> achiang: can you remind me who you told me to bother last time i asked about simultaneous charging and usb-otg on the n7?
<achiang> desrt: janimo... we tested a patch but it broke the USB stack back in november
<desrt> so i could bug him but the answer will be 'no' i guess
<achiang> desrt: someone else recently raised a bug w/a patch; unsure if it was exactly the same or if it was a refreshed version
<desrt> achiang: got a link?
<achiang> desrt: the bug was closed out as wontfix by ogra_
<desrt> really?
<desrt> that surprises me because http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1934722
<desrt> ogra_: what's up with that?
<achiang> desrt: old bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bug/1072320
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1072320 in ubuntu-nexus7 "please consider adding OTG charging support to kernel" [High,In progress]
<achiang> desrt: new bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bug/1103000
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1103000 in ubuntu-nexus7 "Need to charge from USB hub with power connector" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<desrt> achiang: any word on the pogo pins?
<achiang> desrt: hm, can you refine your question? :)
<desrt> achiang: the device has physical support for charging from those pins if you give it +5 and GND
<desrt> but again, i think it needs software support
<achiang> desrt: i haven't heard anything about that, but if you could find a patch, perhaps janimo could take a look at it?
<desrt> achiang: i don't know about a patch... all i know is that google enabled support for it with an android firmware update around the time the dock hit stores
<achiang> desrt: ah, neato
<achiang> desrt: sorry, i haven't been following that too much lately (as you are discovering ;)
<ogra_> desrt, ?
<ogra_> feel free to re-open if you have a working patch
<didrocks> have a good evening everyone!
<rvr_> jdstrand: ping
<jdstrand> rvr_: hey
<rvr_> jdstrand: Hey!
<rvr_> One question
<rvr_> We are pushing for an update of the firefox extension
<rvr_> Is it safe to assume that it will be used by the last version of Firefox available in security/updates repositories?
<rvr_> I wonder what's your policy regarding updates in this cases
<jdstrand> rvr_: target 18.0.1. there are no plans for another firefox release before firefox 19 comes out
<desrt> ogra_: i don't... i'm just kinda surprised to see this issue so quickly wontfixed instead of trying to figure out what's wrong
<rvr_> jdstrand: Yeah, I mean... the 12.10 comes with Firefox 16 by default
<rvr_> jdstrand: But any update using security and/or update repositories will upgrade users to Firefox 18
<jdstrand> rvr_: right, but almost no one will use that. they will follow -security/-updates and have 18.0.1. do keep in mind that upstream releases every 6 weeks or so, so 19 is around the corner
<rvr_> Should be test against Firefox 16?
<rvr_> Ok
<rvr_> Thanks
<jdstrand> rvr_: I wouldn't bother. people won't get your update to the exension without getting ff18.0.1
<jdstrand> users are told to restart the browser anyway
<desrt> seb128: what's the word?
<seb128> desrt, the word is that builder are busy as usual...
<seb128> desrt, should take ~1h
<desrt> k.
<desrt> oh wow.  okay.
<desrt> seemed like your last resubmission was really fast
<seb128> yeah, I got lucky
<seb128> some daily builds kicked in
<desrt> gotcha
<seb128> including people building libreoffice
<seb128> well, dinner time here, hopefully it will be done when I'm back
<desrt> dailies/recipies should get an automatic penalty
<desrt> vs. manual uploads
<seb128> yeah
<bizhan_> HI I got this information from a one of our developers, I was wondering if this is a correct statement about ubuntu: "booting into a console-only environment is not possible Â will require to boot into Desktop first and then kill the desktop manager to get into console-only mode" ? Thx
<sarnold> bizhan_: server installs don't do X, and even if you did a desktop install and want to avoid X, that too is very easy: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#override-files
<bizhan_> sarnold: Thanks very much for this info.
<doomlord> how much is involved in adding a custom thumbnailer for the linux filebrowser
<doomlord> an itch i'd like to scratch is some 3d file formats being thumbnailed (.obj..)
<doomlord> presumeably there's some place where you can register file type plugins
<czajkowski> evening
<mterry> seb128, you added ubuntu-sponsors to bug 1097822.  Is there anything to do yet?  I would expect we'd want to wait for upstream to comment before changing the API
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1097822 in libwnck3 (Ubuntu) "WnckWindow should include a getter and signal for WM_WINDOW_ROLE" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1097822
<seb128> mterry, Trevinho said vuntz was going to review it "today" (by then), so I figured out that sponsors was the best way to not forget about it
<seb128> mterry, feel free to unsubscribe sponsors, I will ping vuntz about it
<mterry> seb128, sure
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<mterry> seb128, same for bug 1097781
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1097781 in libwnck3 (Ubuntu) "WnckWindow should emit a signal when the window class changes" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1097781
<seb128> mterry, indeed
<qengho> I really want to run Unity, but it completely freaks out on my machine.  Who wants to debug it with me?
<seb128> qengho, try #ubuntu-unity or ping didrocks tomorrow
<Trevinho> seb128: I'll try to ping again vuntz if it is needed...
<Trevinho> seb128: also he was ok to give us more power on libwnck as we're the only still using it (with xfce)
<seb128> Trevinho, well, if you are confident about the patches we should get those in
<seb128> it got delayed because I was travelling last week and sort of waiting for them to be in git since you said vuntz was going to commit
<Trevinho> seb128: I am
<seb128> ok, great, I will get them in tomorrow or monday, still ping vuntz if you can, thanks ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128: ok
<seb128> 'night
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-01-25
<pitti> Good morning
<jibel> Good morning
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: quite busyâ¦ still fighting with autopilot tests not running
<didrocks> yourself?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, trying to figure out why my tests aren't working properly (https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-ppa-adt-ubuntu_mozilla_daily_ppa-firefox-trunk/) ;)
<Laney> ello
<chrisccoulson> hi Laney
<Laney> happy friday ;-)
<seb128> hey desktopers
<Laney> hey seb128
<lool> didrocks: Just a heads up that I've fixed the smem issue we were seeing; it wasn't amd64 specific, but related to latest 3.8 kernels
<didrocks> lool: interestingâ¦ good to know at least
<didrocks> seb128 wasn't up to date then :)
<seb128> didrocks, weird, I'm uptodate
<didrocks> seb128: come on, you are so 2012! :-)
 * didrocks hugs seb128
<seb128> well, 3.5.0-18-generic
<seb128> what's the current one?
<lool> seb128: 3.8
<lool> 3.8.0-1-generic
<didrocks> yep, 3.8 here
<seb128> k, I likely got the -generic binary dropped or something
<seb128> didrocks, lool: thanks ;-)
 * seb128 installs "linux"
<lool> it's fortunate that the nexus 7 kernel was lagging behind to
<BigWhale> Hmmm I think that GIR for Gstreamer is broken in 13.04 ...
<BigWhale> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kazam/+bug/1099942
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1099942 in Kazam Screencaster "Can't record video in any format" [Critical,Confirmed]
<Laney> BigWhale: interesting
<Laney> BigWhale: I get that when I start with a quantal chroot and then upgrade python-gi to raring's version
<Laney> BigWhale: http://people.canonical.com/~laney/random-scripts/gst-broken
<BigWhale> Laney, that's seriously broken yes ...
<BigWhale> :/
<Laney> quite
<BigWhale> Thanks for confirming it's not just me. :)
<Laney> want to file it with pygobject upstream? :-)
<BigWhale> I'll do that yes.
<Laney> excellent
 * Laney subscribes
<BigWhale> Laney, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=692515
<ubot2> Gnome bug 692515 in introspection "Run time error trying to register a type" [Critical,Unconfirmed]
<Laney> merci
<chrisccoulson> does everyone else see black lines with this link? http://people.canonical.com/~chrisccoulson/reftests/reftest-sanity/filter-1.xhtml
<Laney> four boxes, alternating filled and outline
<chrisccoulson> hmmm :/
<chrisccoulson> i wonder why it appears all white when i run the actual tests?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what Laney said
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<tkamppeter> larsu, seb128, I have discovered a problem: In Raring we have switched the printer setup tool from s-c-p to g-c-c. The new g-c-c does not auto-download drivers from OpenPrinting, this functionality must be introduced as completely new feature. Askink upstream for implementing it will go a long process through GNOME design and also the upstream maintainer works at Red Hat and Red Hat would not put effort into a facility for downloading
<tkamppeter>  proprietary drivers.
<seb128> tkamppeter, wasn't that a known issue before we changed?
<chrisccoulson> but for some reason, when i run the actual test here, the black lines are invisible
<chrisccoulson> and it fails in the same way here too https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-ppa-adt-ubuntu_mozilla_daily_ppa-firefox-trunk/
<larsu> seb128, tkamppeter, yes, this was a known issue. I thought we figured out the auto-downloading was done by the s-c-p daemon that we are still using?
<seb128> tkamppeter, larsu: it's listed in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-system-config-printer-vs-gnome-3-control-center
<seb128> "The new printer tool doesn't handle proprietary drivers (design choice), switching to the GNOME version would break downloading of those drivers
<seb128> -> we don't want to drop that feature in Ubuntu
<seb128>   -> if it doesn't get in upstream, we'll have to patch the ubuntu version"
<larsu> seb128, right, I think I talked to tkamppeter after that and we figured out that this is done by the daemon
<seb128> k
<seb128> tkamppeter, btw you are a workitem on that blueprint about... " Make sure driver auto-download works: TODO"
<larsu> seb128, I guess he's working on that right now :P
<seb128> ;-)
<tkamppeter> seb128, we have found a way to do it without needing to modify the GNOME tool, as the GNOME tools calls s-c-p backend libraries via D-Bus, I will put the functionality completely in the backend. S no problems with GNOME upstream.
<chrisccoulson> ah, figured out the test failures
<chrisccoulson> stupid build system is mangling some svg's when packaging the testsuite
<chrisccoulson> grrrrr
<chrisccoulson> bah
<chrisccoulson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1569357/
<chrisccoulson> that there, breaks a significant amount of tests :(
<chrisccoulson> pitti, how do i disable scour from running in the builds?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: cdbs?
<chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, it's still cdbs
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I guess it's cdbs, as that's the only one invoking it automatically
<chrisccoulson> ah, i wasn't sure if this was some pkgbinarymangler thing
<chrisccoulson> in that case, i'll grep the cdbs files :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: DEB_DH_SCOUR_ARGS = -N<pkgname>
<pitti> to ignore that package name; can also be specified multiple times
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> right, i'll give that a try now :)
<ogra_> cyphermox, could bug 1105068 be realted to your recent modemmanager question ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1105068 in ubuntu-nexus7 "getty on ttyGS0 causing lots of wakeups" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1105068
<seb128> ogra_, the nexus meeting is at 5pm german time right?
<cyphermox> ogra_: no it has nothing to do with it. It could indeed be caused by MM though.. not sure
<ogra_> seb128, no, 5pm french time :)
<seb128> ogra_, thanks ;-)
<cyphermox> ogra_: my question was that I noticed that if I went very quickly after connecting the nexus 7 to open ttyASM3 in screen, I'd see AT commands sent by NM mess up with getty, but it settles down pretty quickly
<cyphermox> whereas that bug is for ttyGS0 -- inside the nexus, as opposed to outside :)
<ogra_> right, but it could be that getty gets confused by getting AT commands
<cyphermox> I think the fix will likely be the exact same thing though, and I discussed it with upstream, Dan seemed to say it shouldn't be blacklisted but I still don't understand why -- seems safe to blacklist that particular USB ID
<cyphermox> ogra_: in both cases it's a new "modem" (serial device), and getting probed
<ogra_> well, we could do it as distro patch worst case
<cyphermox> unless these wakeups come from something completely different
<cyphermox> ogra_: oh yeah
<cyphermox> but it still seems like a valid upstream patch -- if people are using that particular USB ID they are necessarily trying to do something special, since you can only get it if you use the kernel g_serial module, with the default settings
<ogra_> hmm, i think the wakeups come from chraging the device
<cyphermox> btw: why didn't we register a USB ID or just use a different one? ;D
<cyphermox> ogra_: could be too
<ogra_> hmm, or not
<cyphermox> multiple 5V on a serial line?
<ogra_> well, i just checked, still wakes up like crazy
<ogra_> even with no cable plugged in
<cyphermox> it could very well be confusing the kernel
<ogra_> so its neither
<cyphermox> ah
<cyphermox> well no
<cyphermox> it can still be MM
<ogra_> on the nexus side, yeah
<ogra_> shutting down MM on the nexus seems to not have any effect either
<cyphermox> interesting
<cyphermox> I'll give it a shot
<cyphermox> brb
<cyphermox> ogra_: what command got the traces?
<ogra_> traces ?
<cyphermox> wakeups
<ogra_> i'm just watching with htop
<cyphermox> in the bug
<ogra_> ask cking ... though he might be using powertop
<cking> i used eventstat
<didrocks> pitti: hey, I would appreciate if I can abuse from some of your rescoring power for https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4246818
<didrocks> so that we can get a daily release soon :)
<ogra_> but htop shows it nicely as well, getty eats CPU all the time
<ogra_> usually being in the top 5 busy apps when sorting by CPU
<cyphermox> yeah but eventstat interests me ;)
<cking> I wrote it for the power saving work in 12.04
<pitti> didrocks: hmm; bumping to 6000 now makes it "7 hours" :(
<cking> cyphermox, think of it like vmstat for events ;-)
<cyphermox> cking cool
<pitti> didrocks: even 900
<didrocks> urgh
<cyphermox> of course it may be counterproductive to do that while connected to 3G over said bus...
<pitti> didrocks: two libo builds, and some disabled ones, sorry
<pitti> didrocks: but it'll be the next in line
<didrocks> pitti: ah, excellent! Thanks a lot :) I won't have to wake up in the middle of the night to ensure the daily is in :)
 * didrocks hugs pitti
 * pitti hugs you back
<cyphermox> Cking: hmm its special on the nexus with on board... It doesn't limit output to the number of lines on the terminal.
<cking> cyphermox, ah, so it's the  tty driver being a pain then?
<ogra_> cking, do you have a 3G nexus ?
<cking> ogra_, how do I figure that out?
<ogra_> i wonder if that comes into play somewhere and interferes
<ogra_> hmm, good question, i gues it shoudl offer you 3G networks in NM
 * ogra_ has never had a 3G one in his hands, in fact i only own an 8G model from the early days
<didrocks> seb128: did you see quite some dconf crashes since yesterday's fix?
<didrocks> seems there is nothing in errors on the first page
<cking> ogra_, I can't see any 3G networks, so can't tell really
<ogra_> well, was it given to you by the company ?
<ogra_> i know we didnt buy any 3G models
<cking> ogra_, i purchased it from google
<ogra_> heh, well, then you should know what you bought :P
<didrocks> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/d-conf/+bug/1104883
<ubot2> didrocks: Error: ubuntu bug 1104883 not found
<didrocks> hey desrt :)
<didrocks> desrt: want to debug a dconf crash? do you need the stacktrace this time to get it fix or will you just be awesome once more and not using it? :)
<cyphermox> ogra_: speaking of a 3G model, I wouldn't mind having my hands on one to make sure the modem works properly there. you know, maintaining MM and everything ;)
<cyphermox> cking: well, partly
<cyphermox> cking: the tty driver is being a pain because it's hard to easily readable data from eventstat unless you're on serial
<ogra_> cyphermox, probably vanhoof has one
<cyphermox> cking: but then that will break the data you get if what you're interested in is how often the nexus wakes up because of the tty
<cyphermox> cking: otherwise, we use the g_serial module with no parameters, so it load up with the default USB ID
<ogra_> else have your  managernapprove the expenses
<ogra_> ;)
<cyphermox> that has the chance of being used elsewhere by people trying to really hook up some fake modem to MM
<cyphermox> I wish we could register our own, or kind of steak the USB ID from the actual nexus
<cyphermox> *steal
<cyphermox> since you know... it's a nexus
<cking> yup
<cyphermox> though if we use that USB ID, then I definitely can't blacklist it in ModemManager, otherwise it will break tethering
<cyphermox> I think registering an ID with IANA or whatever costs money though
<cyphermox> the current state isn't too bad, just a little tricky for some things ;)
<cyphermox> ogra_: I've been thinking seriously about it
<cyphermox> but then maybe I'd just buy it outright and keep it ;)
<ogra_> yeah,i wasnt joking eithern:)
<jibel> didrocks, dconf crash has been retraced and duped to bug 1104883
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1104883 in d-conf (Ubuntu) "dconf-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_variant_is_trusted()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1104883
<didrocks> cyphermox: not seeing my pings? :)
<cyphermox> err sorry yeah I might have missed them
<didrocks> jibel: hem, I wrote that 20 minutes ago and even tried to teased desrt, but thanks! :)
<jibel> didrocks, you're faster than my email client then :)
<didrocks> jibel: I have an easy F5 :p
<sil2100> didrocks: did all tests for all machines run in 51?
<didrocks> sil2100: not on ATI
<didrocks> sil2100: but for nvidia/intel, it's reliable
<didrocks> sil2100: it doesn't have your latest fix, but the rest, you can base on it if you want to continue fixing some :)
<didrocks> sil2100: also, maybe you can investigate to put back the multi-ws ones, changing the value before the test and putting that back to 1 during the teardown?
<sil2100> didrocks: yea, I'll think whether to do those or just revisit them later and now look at standard failures ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: sounds good to me as well!
<didrocks> sil2100: kill them all \o/
<seb128> didrocks, didn't no, but seems you found it
<Sweetshark> bdrung: do you think I should edit/merge the ppa changelog lines from previous historical uploads too?
<Sweetshark> bdrung: (esp. those of upstream versions that never made it to main?)
<didrocks> seb128: yep, can you put that on your track list once desrt is back? we can get it reliably in the daily release
<seb128> didrocks, sure
<didrocks> thanks a lot :)
<bdrung> Sweetshark: if the raring version has the ppa paragraphs in it, you can keep them (to avoid additional work)
<bdrung> Sweetshark: alternatively, you could take the whole changelog from Debian and add only one new paragraph for raring (but then you have to state all changes to debian)
<Sweetshark> bdrung: k
<desrt> didrocks: again?
<didrocks> desrt: yeah, you screwed some daily release for me! (this time, it doesn't impact that much, but apport is taking the focus and so the integration tests are failing)
<desrt> nice.
<didrocks> desrt: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/d-conf/+bug/1104883
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1104883 in d-conf (Ubuntu) "dconf-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_variant_is_trusted()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<desrt> that'
<desrt> s already fixed
<didrocks> seb128: backporting? :) ^
<seb128> desrt, not in the commits you told me to backport the other day :p
<seb128> desrt, do you have the commit id?
<desrt> yup.  just commented on the bug
<seb128> didrocks, do you have a testcase to confirm the fix?
<desrt> but here: http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=998c6e65cf18aee626b9982347c29b4b09f2c097
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<desrt> very very old bug
<seb128> oh, come on
<seb128> not another glib upload :/
<desrt> hahah
<didrocks> seb128: not really, apart from not having crashes during the daily release tests
<desrt> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=789824 may interest you
<ubot2> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 789824 in dconf "[abrt] dconf-0.10.0-1.fc16: gvs_tuple_is_normal: Process /usr/libexec/dconf-service was killed by signal 11 (SIGSEGV)" [Unspecified,On_qa]
<seb128> desrt, btw didrocks almost convinced me I was wrong to agree on taking glib unstable serie
<desrt> that would have been a mistake, considering this bug is some 3-4 years old :)
<seb128> it's turning again into playing catchup on segfault issues
<didrocks> seb128 loves backporting fixes :)
<seb128> well, we didn't have those segfaults before updating dconf
<desrt> plus: i warned you this would be a bumpy ride in terms of weird possibly-incompatible changes, but that i'd be around to fix crashers
<desrt> ya... fedora was having these issues since last year
<desrt> but they did get worse recently
<seb128> desrt, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/129480637/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-amd64.glib2.0_2.35.4-1~ppa4.2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz btw
<desrt> GLib:ERROR:/build/buildd/glib2.0-2.35.4/./glib/tests/gwakeuptest.c:243:test_threaded: assertion failed (g_atomic_int_get (&tokens_alive) == 0): (4 == 0)
<desrt> oh good.  hit my new assert.
<desrt> so i think it's the kernel
<seb128> desrt, it's racy, I had to try 3 times to hit the build issue
<desrt> i was concerned that i had gotten some weird thready stuff wrong in that test, but this makes it pretty clear
<desrt> the GWakeup does not get signalled until that variable is set to 0
<desrt> and meanwhile the assert sees it set to 4
<desrt> seb128: have you ever seen the issue on a non-builder build?
<seb128> desrt, no, but I tend to skip the glib testsuit when I only backport a simple commit, it takes ages to run on my laptop ;-)
<desrt> hrmph.
<Laney> it also doesn't happen on the distro builders?
<desrt> so we can go with my process-is-being-randomly-signalled-by-something theory
<seb128> Laney, hard to say, we didn't upload glib enough to say
<seb128> Laney, I got it twice on amd64 with 5 ppa uploads, 0 times on i386
<desrt> which would cause poll() to early-exit with errno=EINTR
<seb128> desrt, so you are saying that the test can be "bugged" by external processes?
<desrt> seb128: only by something causing EINTR
<desrt> which the kernel can throw at it for all kinds of stupid reasons
<desrt> this is what we were speculating about the other day
<seb128> right
<desrt> lemme throw another more-assert patch your way
<desrt> this bug is really interesting
<desrt> sorry it's so annoying for you :)
<seb128> no worry, it's not *that* annoying, it didn't break my upload to raring
<desrt> seb128: http://www.fpaste.org/yw51/
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<desrt> i honestly don't know what we will see :)
<Sweetshark> bdrung: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1570329/ <- fixed changelog
<Sweetshark> bdrung: eh, make that: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1570337/
<bdrung> Sweetshark: "upstream beta -- first port to raring" and "ppa prerelease bugs to packaging mailing list" could be dropped (no new information)
<bdrung> Sweetshark: you have "merge from Debian" twice. that could be combined to one entry
<bdrung> Sweetshark: besides that, it looks good
<bdrung> Sweetshark: i will take the source tarballs from http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/libreoffice4/ and the debian directory from the debian git repository (so pushing your changes there is enough)
<Sweetshark> "ppa prerelease bugs to packaging mailing list" actually is new information, but it could be clearer -- as in:
<Sweetshark> make ppa prerelease bugs being reported to packaging mailing list in control-file
<bdrung> Sweetshark: i will leave now. i wish you enjoyable holidays. i will continue review the package later, fix severe issue (if any found), upload it, and sent you a mail with stuff that should be fixed in future uploads.
<bdrung> Sweetshark: = "debian/control.in: make ppa prerelease bugs being reported to packaging mailing list"?
<bdrung> Sweetshark: is that change only relevant for the PPA?
<Sweetshark> bdrung: not quite. the change is in debian/rules and it generates a "Bugs:<ppa packaging team>" in the control file, if and only if the package version has a ppa string in it.
<bdrung> ah, okay. the changelog entry was misleading me.
<bdrung> Sweetshark: BTW, PPA should be written in capital in the changelog entries
 * didrocks waves good evening, see you in a week guys!
<Laney> didrocks: have fun!
<didrocks> thanks, good luck for next week Laney ;)
<Laney> haha
 * Laney suddenly gets scared
<didrocks> ;)
<Sweetshark> bdrung: pushed as http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git;a=commitdiff;h=23b97aa8cc5c80b82d10fe39be73aca1e347eefb
<Sweetshark> bdrung: thanks a lot.
 * Sweetshark begins teardown for going on vacation.
<doomlord> anyone know if /how its possible to add file thumbnailers to the ubuntu filebrowser
<doomlord> (additional thumbnailers for new types )
<Laney> doomlord: should be; see /usr/share/thumbnailers/
<Sweetshark> bdrung: oh, one note: you need to do a "./debian/rules control" to regenerate the control file when using the debian dir from the branch. Checking in a generated file didnt make sense to me (and is terribly annoying on merges)
<mterry> seb128, sorry I missed the nexus7 meeting this morning, but I'm reading the log
<seb128> mterry, no worry, thanks
<doomlord> i'm guessing %s = size, %u=input filename, %o = output filename for the commandline invocation
<robru> mterry, seb128 : there was a meeting this morning?
<doomlord> before i write it , does anything  in linux provide thumnailers for 3d file formats like .obj
<seb128> robru, not a desktop one, there is a nexus7 weekly meeting at 4pm utc on #ubuntu-meeting
<robru> seb128, should I be participating in that?
<seb128> robru, it's a good idea to join for those who are up seeing the nexus focus
<robru> ok
<robru> seb128, I'll try for the next one ;-)
<seb128> robru, well, it's a status update meeting more than anything else, reading the log is good enough if you don't have questions ;-)
<Laney> enough gstreamer/pidgin!
<Laney> happy weekend everyone ;-)
<mterry> robru, a nexus7 meeting happens at 16h UTC on Fridays
<mterry> robru, in #ubuntu-meeting
<robru> mterry, thanks
<desrt> seb128: looks like the amd64 build of your glib upload got past the glib/tests/ :(
<desrt> seb128: maybe you should modify the next upload to run the testsuite 20 times :)
<robru> mterry, ping
<robru> mterry, actually this is too hard to explain in IRC, I'm going to email you
<mterry> robru, yo
<robru> mterry, check your inbox please ;-)
<mterry> robru, yes Vala is magic
<mterry> robru, there are two separate things going on that make it seem magical
<mterry> robru, oh ok
<mterry> robru, just saw your other message.  Will reply in email
<mterry> robru, replied
<robru> anybody around to help me troubleshoot some networking issues on the pandaboard? cyphermox ?
<robru> cyphermox, I managed to boot quantal on my pandaboard, plugged in wired ethernet, and I got the notification bubble that it was connected over ethernet, but the installer gave me the warning that the installation is best done with a network connection. So I click continue anyway, and the first thing it asks me to do is connect to a wifi. So I choose my same wifi, and I get the notification bubble saying it's connected (so now it has
<robru> both wired and wireless connection into the same router), but the installation wizard does not continue past that point, it just hangs on the wifi selection screen (despite the fact that the wifi connected successfully).
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-01-26
<robru> cyphermox, odd, disconnected the wired and now it's progressing fine. odd.
<cyphermox> robru: ah, sorry
<cyphermox> I'll be going back home in about 15 minutes
<cyphermox> so in 15m + 1h I should be able to reproduce
<cyphermox> OH
<cyphermox> you mean the button Connect doesn't react in quantal until you unplug wired?
<cyphermox> I think I may have seen that early on in the quantal cycle, I thought it was a bug that had been fixed since
<robru> cyphermox, oops, was afk for a bit. home yet?
<cyphermox> yeah
<robru> cyphermox, ok, sorry, I'm all over the place over here ;-)
<robru> cyphermox, so yeah, what happened was the installer wouldn't progresswhile the wired connection was connected
<robru> cyphermox, but the really weird thing was that I specifically saw notifications saying that wired and wireless were both connected. so I'd choose my wireless and click 'connect' and I'd get the notification that it connected, but the installer just never progressed to the next step. at least not until I unplugged the wired.
<robru> cyphermox, keep in mind this was with the quantal installer, so you may well have fixed it since;-)
<cyphermox> no, it shouldn't happen in quantal
<cyphermox> can you file a bug, I'll reproduce it here and see where it was fixed if at all so that it can eventually make it to quantal
<robru> cyphermox, what should I file it against? network manager?
<cyphermox> ubiquity
<robru> ok
<robru> on an unrelated note, anybody else noticing that U1 is totally broken on raring? I have two raring laptops here and neither of them can sync U1. going into U1 prefs and connecting to my account gives the helpful "IPCError" error message each time.
<robru> "Sorry, an error has occurred and Ubuntu One needs to close." Show details... -> IPCError
<penguin_> test
<penguin_> does anyone use ubuntu at night?
<doomlord> ubuntu / google nexus .. what can it do/not do
<doomlord> ubuntu / google nexus 7 ^.. what can it do/not do
<xnox> cyphermox: interesting. I wonder if it would progress by clicking back & forward again (but this time no wifi page would have been shown)
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-01-27
<GunnarHj> xnox: Subscribed you to bug 952185 after having replied to your comment, so I'm not sure that you were notified by email.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 952185 in pam (Ubuntu) "~/.pam_environment not parsed when HOME is encrypted" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/952185
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-01-20
<ali1234> mlankhorst: is there a ppa anywhere that will get me DRI3 and Present?
<Sarvatt> ali1234: theres no driver support upstream yet except obscure branches that may or may not work, i doubt it
<ali1234> i don't need driver support at this point - present should "work" without driver support
<ali1234> at least in the sense it will display things on the screen. just won't be vsynced yet
<Sarvatt> hmm, https://launchpad.net/~canonical-x/+archive/x-staging then?
<Sarvatt> no it needs mesa git also
<ali1234> i guess i'll put this on hold until more stuff filters through
<eigma> [precise 12.04.3] trying to troubleshoot Unity greeter's 'Shutdown' being broken. tracked it down to /usr/lib/indicator-session/gtk-logout-helper hitting a dbus AccessDenied when calling ConsoleKit Stop method. can reproduce using dbus-send. how do I troubleshoot from here?
<eigma> *error is actually org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit.Manager.NotPrivileged
<pitti> Good morning
<larsu> good morning !
<mlankhorst>  ali1234 no
<mlankhorst> ali1234: but preliminary stuff is ready
<mlankhorst> ali1234: grab the xorg-server from that ppa and you only need to compile your own ddx and own mesa.git
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<mlankhorst> ohai
<pitti> hey seb128, morning mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> haithere
<seb128> pitti, hey, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: not too bad; a bit tired still from the weekend
<pitti> it was a long car drive there (Fri) and back (yesterday) and a quite long/intense Saturday
<pitti> there == Hamburg, we visited a friend there who recently moved there
<seb128> oh, what did you do?
<seb128> I see
<pitti> so we did a sightseeing tour, a port cruise, and the Reeperbahn in the evening
<didrocks> hey seb128, pitti!
<pitti> bonjour didrocks ! as-tu eu un bon week-end ?
<didrocks> pitti: bon week-end! we bought some new furnitures for the kitchen, so no visiting for us :)
<didrocks> also, got unity broken over the week-end, trying to trick popey to see if he can reproduce
<seb128> didrocks, lut
<seb128> oh, "fun"
 * seb128 notes to not upgrade 
<didrocks> seb128: I guess you're fine, it was published the 7 of January
<didrocks> seb128: I had unity marked on hold
<seb128> oh, ok
<didrocks> I unmarked it on Friday, dist-upgraded
<seb128> yeah, no issue here then
<didrocks> but didn't reboot
<didrocks> until Saturday :p
<seb128> what's the issue?
<didrocks> the stacktrace is weird: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6784761/
<didrocks> I don't see anything stricking/hurting my eyes here
<didrocks> also, I tried to report it with apport-bug
<didrocks> but I saw the apport-gtk process running
<didrocks> but no windows
<didrocks> not sure how since we have this whoopsie thing how it works
<didrocks> and 30 minutes after trying to report it, nothing on errors.ubuntu.com
<didrocks> so, I reverted to previous nux and unity (the one not rebuilt against glew 1.10) and it's working
<seb128> glew issues, fun
<didrocks> yeah, I see nothing showing that on the stack
 * didrocks is sad the once again, foundation did the upload totally untested with us and uncoordinated
<didrocks> that*
<didrocks> seb128: I'm still wondering why apport-gtk didn't show up though, even if whoopsie is enabled, when I tell "report it", it should use apport (as enabled on my system), right?
 * didrocks is totally lost with whoopsie
<didrocks> but I see a .upload and .uploaded and I have no idea where this is :/
<pitti> didrocks: where do you tell it "report it"? that should already be apport
<pitti> didrocks: system settings -> privacy -> diagnosis -> show previous reports
<seb128> didrocks, not sure it's "totally untested", that update seems to be working for most of us
<pitti> didrocks: that should lead you to "your" errors.u.c. page
<didrocks> seb128: well, I doubt it ran under the 3 otto machines
<didrocks> seb128: hence the "with us"
<didrocks> pitti: ah nice, let me see :)
<seb128> yeah, not likely, but to be fair I don't test every archive upload I do on the otto machines either
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, but you don't upload nux and unity :)
<pitti> didrocks: that web page is rather unfriendly ATM, it only shows hashes; it should show projects, dates, etc.
<didrocks> seb128: if I want to transition something on glib, I would ask you first ;)
<didrocks> pitti: hum, let me click around
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> didrocks, in any case, e.u.c doesn't rank any unity bug
<didrocks> seb128: compiz-core crash?
<didrocks> seems it's https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/a8ea9f18-8068-11e3-a0f6-2c768aafd08c
<didrocks> pitti: but it's not retraced from what I see
<pitti> yeah, or retrace failed
<didrocks> pitti: and there is no more apport asking us if we want to file a bug in launchpad, if apport is enabled?
<pitti> I noticed that on a lot of whoopsie reports, it seems to have trouble with trusty
<Laney> morning!
<pitti> didrocks: not ATM; we might actually re-enable it for alpha-2; seb128, WDYT?
<pitti> didrocks: it's still disabled from the saucy release
<pitti> we traditionally re-enable LP crashes around alpha-2
<seb128> Laney, hey, how are you?
<didrocks> pitti: it's a flag on the desktop which isn't /etc/default/apport?
<pitti> hey Laney
<didrocks> morning Laney
<pitti> didrocks: no, it's problem_types in /etc/apport/crashdb.conf
<pitti> didrocks: if you comment out/drop that line, it'll report crashes to LP
<didrocks> pitti: so, don't set any default?
<seb128> pitti, re-enabling, wfm, I've no strong opinion, I look more at whoopsie than launchpad nowadays
<seb128> not enough free slot to keep with launchpad
<pitti> ^ yes, that's why I don't want to re-enable LP crashes too early
<didrocks> pitti: thanks, I was really wondering wth with apport enabled, I couldn't get a "normal" apport report in launchpad! ;)
<pitti> didrocks: we don't change /e/d/apport any more since we use whoopsie
<didrocks> ok, so apport always "report"
<pitti> as evan has a rather strong opinion about leaving this enabled in stables
<didrocks> and this file change the direction
<pitti> right
<didrocks> destination*
<pitti> either to errors.u.c. only, or additionally to LP
<didrocks> ok, making sense, at least, that would have teach me a little bit how this works now :)
<didrocks> thanks pitti!
<didrocks> now on why it's not retraced
 * didrocks is pinging ev
<didrocks> seb128: I hope it's really only my configuration, will get a confirmation with popey (he's upgrading his x220)
<Laney> hey seb128 pitti didrocks!
<didrocks> I tried to drop all my favorites under /com/canonical in case it was a launcher icon for instance
<Laney> sounds like a fun monday start ;-)
<didrocks> (as it seems to fails here)
<seb128> didrocks, well, at least it's not most of us, if it's there for some 10 days (nobody complained)
<didrocks> Laney: well, it's fun on the phone ML as well ;))
<seb128> didrocks, did you try a guest session?
<didrocks> seb128: that's what I thought. I hope though it's not this graphic-card related
<didrocks> seb128: humâ¦ I lost my old habits I guess
 * didrocks should try
<didrocks> seb128: ok, now I'm puzzled
<didrocks> hum, ok, it restarted here as well now
<didrocks> both guest and my session wth
 * didrocks unlogs and comes back
<didrocks> ok, can't reproduce it anymore
<didrocks> restarted lightdm
<didrocks> tried 2 monitors, then one, like yesterday
<seb128> didrocks, weird, maybe it was something in your launcher config?
<didrocks> so not related to my graphic card as I thought :/
<didrocks> seb128: no, I tried to empty it
<didrocks> dconf dump /com/canonical (even indicators then)
<didrocks> then dconf reset -fâ¦
<didrocks> was still crashing
<didrocks> then, I reloaded my config
<didrocks> and was again crashing of course
<seb128> weird
<didrocks> I'm out of ideas and don't like to call that a "non issue anymore"
<popey> this was just a ploy to get me to update to trusty wasn't it? :D
<didrocks> popey: yeah, all that in that end! :)
<didrocks> popey: sorry, I was really thinking it was x200-configuration related ;)
<didrocks> x220*
<popey> np
<seb128> that's a strange one in any case
<seb128> ok, I'm dropping offline for like 10min
<seb128> brb
<Laney> ooo
<Laney> mlankhorst: do you know about this kind of thing http://paste.ubuntu.com/6784936/ ?
<mlankhorst> yeah something messed up, no idea what yet :P
<mlankhorst> Laney: probably some kernel upgrade?
<Laney> there was one
<Laney> apport is offering me a bug report
<mlankhorst> not sure a bug report would be helpful
<seb128> Sweetshark, happy birthday!
<Laney> birthday bumps
<Sweetshark> seb128: thx. btw I put 4.2.0~rc2 in the PPA for trusty (and the always awesome ricotz already bumped it back for saucy too). Its looking good in general and is also building on trusty/armhf. There was one hickup with a dependency of a transitional, but that is fixed now.
<seb128> Sweetshark, \o/
<Sweetshark> seb128:  so I guess, what I am trying to say is: If nobody is screaming protests, IMHO we should go to trusty/main with that one as it is now.
<mlankhorst> do pitchforks count?
<Sweetshark> seb128: I will walk through the remaining --with-system-$foo switches and see if it would be good and worth the risk to debian-sync/MIR/whatever them and build against those, but we shouldnt do all that with one upload.
<seb128> Sweetshark, +1 from me to upload to trusty
<Sweetshark> mlankhorst: Dont attack LibreOffice with forks. We'll beat you with our experience on that one.
<seb128> Sweetshark, btw we should maybe take the new poppler (soname transition) before uploading libreoffice ... you said libreoffice didn't seem to be using the API that change, to you want to test build that or something?
<Sweetshark> seb128: testbuilding sounds good. When is the poppler transition estimated to take place?
<seb128> Sweetshark, "whenever it's convenient for libreoffice"
<seb128> Sweetshark, the other rdepends are easy to rebuild, it's only 1 function that changed
<Sweetshark> seb128: is that new poppler upload in some ppa or something already? or already in -proposed?
<seb128> Sweetshark, no, the diffs are on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/poppler/+bug/1256627, I can upload to the desktop team ppa if that helps though
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1256627 in poppler (Ubuntu) "New upstream release, merge with Debian" [Wishlist,New]
<Sweetshark> seb128: the other thing I tried to solve is to get back my ~90minutes binary builds locally on the notebook. sadly that didnt work out. I optimized my pbuilder setup, disabled xz compression of .debs (which take another hour), but somehow could get ccache to do anything else than cache misses. So still at 7,5 hours builds, which is a pain. :(
<Sweetshark> seb128: diffs should do, thx.
<seb128> Sweetshark, great, let me know how that goes ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: willdo. ... In ~14 hours ...
<davmor2> davidcalle: Hey dude, scopes... if I type in weather on the phone or desktop (13.10 and 14.04) in theory is should show me the location for my area correct?  If  so I think it might be failing :(
<Sweetshark> seb128: that poppler patch does a "dh_install --list-missing\n dh_install: libpoppler44 missing files (usr/lib/*/libpoppler.so.44*), aborting" here ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, what version did you build?
<seb128> Sweetshark, http://poppler.freedesktop.org/poppler-0.24.5.tar.xz ?
<Sweetshark> seb128: apt-get source poppler && patch -p1 patch-from-1256627
<Sweetshark> seb128: argh, k
<seb128> Sweetshark, right, that patch is a new version update
<seb128> that's a bit confusing
<seb128> basically take that tarball and copy the debian dir over
<Sweetshark> seb128: yeah, I just saw the huge patch and thought its a full diff (not just ./debian)
<davidcalle> davmor2, hey. There has been some unexpected API changes from the provider, it's being fixed.
<davmor2> davidcalle: ah nice okay if it is known I shall go back to my corner :)
<Sweetshark> seb128: are you sure about the poppler-0.24.5.tar.xz? because the patch talks about 24.3->24.4 not 5.
<seb128> Sweetshark, .5 seems a small bug fix over .4, the API change is in .4
<seb128> Sweetshark, so either would do
<davidcalle> davmor2, hehe, thanks for the feeback, though ;) (fun fact about this bug : it's more likely to happen if it's past mid-day in you local timezone, can you confirm it is ?)
<davmor2> davidcalle: 12:38 I will check tomorrow first thing and see if works then though to confirm
<davidcalle> davmor2, thanks :)
<Sweetsha1k> seb128: twas because the patch didnt apply cleanly on the changelog, so I was left with the old version there m(
 * Laney yays at the glib-networking flaky tests getting fixed
 * Sweetshark finds missing dependencies in the upstream build.
<Sweetshark> With 32 threads you find all those that others miss.
 * Sweetshark wants your sympathy.
<Sweetshark> hmmm, without l10n, the build is 13GB -- I could squeeze that in a tmpfs ...
<Laney> sil2100: hi, do you know if your grilo patch was forwarded?
 * mlankhorst compiles Sweetshark into plain english
<Laney> http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/ ?
<seb128> Laney, btw did you see the backlog from the sdk guys on friday evening? they replied to your autopilot error question
<Laney> seb128: yes, I replied
<seb128> ok, I don't IRC proxy so I didn't see that
<Laney> I'm waiting for elowotsit to come online
<seb128> ok
<Laney> basically I don't think it's helpful as this is not a listview
<seb128> the licenses panel?
<Laney> about
<seb128> ah, I though you said you had issues with the licences list
<Laney> It's Column { ListItem ListItem ListItem ... }
<Laney> it can't select the button to get into the page
<Laney> the license page
<seb128> I see
<seb128> I wonder if autopilot is the right tech for those tests
<seb128> it's a tech for integration tests
<seb128> we should maybe look at doing the UI tests with the qt runner stuff
<seb128> qmltestrunner (was looking for the name)
<Laney> dunno, some integration testing is definitely valuable
<seb128> right
<seb128> we should have both imho
<seb128> the tests checking that e.g panels load by clicking and checking there is a title are purely UI ones
<seb128> they probably don't need autopilot
<Laney> yeah I agree we should have both
<Laney> the uitk is a good example of QtQuickTest unit tests
<seb128> there was an email about that on the phablet list back then
<seb128> the thinking was mainly "if you just need to test UI/app logic, use the qt tools, it's less work and less slowness/delays", "use autopilot for integration tests though"
<Laney> oops, forgot to have lunch, brb!
<seb128> haha
<seb128> Laney, enjoy ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: dpkg-buildpackage: full upload (original source is included)\n real58m37.657s
<Sweetshark> seb128: seems that libreoffice does not barf all over poppler 0.24.4
<seb128> great!
<desrt> Laney: our poor tests :(
<Laney> hah
<Laney> danw fixed the glib-networking one
<desrt> we need a revert-testcase policy
<desrt> actually, probably we don't need that
<desrt> since it's quite possible that new tests or changes in existing tests are finding real bugs
 * desrt is just getting sick of the 90%+ experience of "it's just the test doing dumb stuff"
<Laney> I'd like to know what's so pathological about Ubuntu's buildds and the CI environment
<desrt> Laney: heavy load, i think
<desrt> when i 'make distcheck' it's the only thing i'm doing
<Laney> the buildds only build one thing at a time
<desrt> i thought they were vms
<Laney> non-virtually
<desrt> huh
<Laney> PPAs are virtualised
<Laney> but not the main distro builders
<Laney> maybe they're just old crappy machines
<desrt> maybe for weird arches
<desrt> but i guess our x86/amd64 builders are pretty decent
<Laney> hey
<Laney> didn't we have a thing a while ago where we ran some gnome upstream testsuites?
 * ogra_ is pretty sure you wont find much faster armhf HW than our buildds :P
<Laney> pitti: ^ what happened to these jhbuild runs?
<Laney> did they go away with the advent of continuous?
<pitti> Laney: mostly yes; and we didn't really keep up the manpower for maintaining those with the changed focus on uphone
<Laney> nod
<desrt> i love you posix
<desrt>        EINVAL The value specified by cond, mutex, or abstime is invalid.
<desrt> what's wrong?  who knows.. could be anything!
<xclaesse> Hmm, I've got evolution-data-server-uoa installed, but my google account still does not appear in evolution :(
<xclaesse> with ubutnu 14.04
<seb128> xclaesse, did you just add it?
<xclaesse> seb128, I realized that I had e-d-s-goa installed and removing it made -uoa replace it
<xclaesse> seb128, I tried deleting and recreate my google account, but still it does not appear in evo
<seb128> hum
<seb128> can you reinstall -goa?
<seb128> (e.g have both)
<seb128> then try again?
<seb128> I wonder if that issue is back (needs to look that split again)
<seb128> it might be that the goa binary has stuff that should be common to both (we had the issue in the past and went forth and back, so it might be buggy again in trusty)
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> Laney 0 - 1 webkitgtk
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> haha
<Laney> it's way more than 1
<xclaesse> seb128, success !
<xclaesse> seb128, yep, installing -goa made it work
<seb128> xclaesse, ok, thanks for reporting the issue
<xclaesse> or maybe it is because the account is configured into goa? dunno...
<xclaesse> seb128, is there a trick to get the GOA panel on ubuntu ?
<seb128> xclaesse, I need to check, but iirc it was because the goa binary has code needed by uoa
<seb128> xclaesse, XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=GNOME gnome-control-center
<xclaesse> I see that goa-daemon is actually running
<seb128> yeah, if it's installed it's running
<seb128> some stuff dbus activate it iirc (it's not installed by default though)
<xclaesse> ok, removed all my accounts there, and evo still has the google account, so it's from UOA :)
<seb128> good ;-)
<Laney> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=126985
<ubot2> bugs.webkit.org bug 126985 in Web Template Framework "Source/WTF/wtf/Atomics.h:300: Error: bad register name `%bpl'" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<Laney> I might wait to see if it builds everywhere else though
<xclaesse> hm, 14.04 is not ready with CSD :(
<xclaesse> deja-dup-preference does not have decorator
<xclaesse> and close button is at right, without ubuntu style
<xclaesse> seb128, hm, when deja-dup is doing its automatic backup, there is no icon in the ubuntu launchers anymore
<xclaesse> no indication that something happens
<xclaesse> that's a regression since 13.10
<seb128> mterry, ^
<mterry> curious...
<mterry> I will look
<xclaesse> there were a nice progress bar on the launcher icon previously
<seb128> mterry, btw, what are you doing working on a national U.S holiday?
<xclaesse> maybe it removed something, because I don't find the icon it all apps
<xclaesse> and it's not in the gnome-control-settings neither
<mterry> seb128, :)  eh, I'm not working hard
<seb128> xclaesse, mterry: seems to be an issue with the unity-control-center transition
<seb128> I've the panel in unity-control-center, not in g-c-c.real
<seb128> xclaesse, we started a transition but it's not done yet, seems to be a side effect
<xclaesse> seb128, ah, unity-control-center is not installed
<seb128> xclaesse, renaming our patch g-c-c to u-c-c so the GNOME remix can provide a less patched/more uptodate version
<xclaesse> I've got gnome-control-center-unity
<seb128> xclaesse, yeah, it's not supposed to be yet, some panels didn't transition ... well you can install both
<xclaesse> seb128, ok, backup is in unity-control-center :)
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> that doesn't explain the lack of launcher integration while it's backuping though
<mterry> Huh, "Backup" should show up in both right now
<xclaesse> tbf, maybe my system isn't correctly upgraded, update-manager just crashed when I tried to upgrade from 13.10
<xclaesse> so I did a plain apt-get dist-upgrade
<xclaesse> Hmm, 2014, and still the firefox window asking for password when accessing an https page is totally hidden
<xclaesse> have to move around all my windows to see where it's hiding behind
<xclaesse> is it that complicated to have everything in alt-tab ?
<xclaesse> something with transiant/modal windows
<seb128> have a good even everyone
<WaVeR> Hi folks, with the last update from gnome3-team (screensaver) is no more working
<WaVeR> some one have the same issue?
<WaVeR> also change/switch user is no more working
<WaVeR> looks like gnome-screensaver doesn't run with the session
<xclaesse> Hm, evolution often silently closes because it crash and no crash report seems to be created, dunno why...
<xclaesse> here is the backtrace though: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6787703/
<xclaesse> ubuntu 14.04
<xclaesse> maybe I told apport to stop reporting evolution issues a while ago, don't remember
<Laney> xclaesse: I see similar results in rh's bugzilla - I'd report it directly upstream if I were you
<Laney> we don't really have code patches to evo
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-01-21
<Laney> howdy
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<Laney> hey seb128
<darkxst> hey seb128
<seb128> darkxst, hey
<darkxst> could you possibly add something to my PPU/MOTU application?
<seb128> darkxst, yeah, I received your email ... do you have a link to the what is in the Ubuntu GNOME package set?
<darkxst> seb128, its everything seeded in the ubuntu gnome image, mostly
<seb128> does that include stuff seeded in the Unity desktop as well?
<darkxst> I don't know how to get a list though
<seb128> Laney, ^?
<darkxst> there would be some overlap
<seb128> I'm fine giving you a +1 for MOTU, I share the same concerns Laney wrote on the wiki
<seb128> nautilus 3.10 is another example
<seb128> you asked for sponsoring bug you clearly didn't even try to test run under an Unity session/with the default theme
<darkxst> seb128, I did test nautilus under ubuntu themes, but I don't normally run those so didnt notice the issues
<Laney> Oh, there's no ubuntu gnome packageset
<seb128> you didn't notice the white holes due to the round corners of the decorations?
<seb128> that's pretty visible, even if you never run Unity/the default theme
<Laney> laney@iota> edit-acl -P ubuntugnome -S trusty query                                                                                        ~
<Laney> == All uploaders for package set 'ubuntugnome' in 'trusty' (owned by 'Ubuntu Technical Board') ==
<darkxst> seb128, and to be fair, I do mostly contact you guys first for things that overlap
<Laney> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-gnome-dev: archive 'primary', package set 'ubuntugnome' in trusty
<Laney> laney@iota>                                                                                                                                ~
<seb128> darkxst, right, but I don't know how much of that is because you need sponsoring...
<darkxst> seb128, that is 1px in my VM ;(
<Laney> I think I was thinking of desktop-extra
<seb128> Laney, darkxst: hum, so what are we talking in that set request?
<Laney> ubuntu gnome - ubuntu is what desktop-extra is, which is what I was considering
<seb128> Laney, ok, let me look a desktop-extra, I'm trying to understand how much that includes Unity desktop components
<darkxst> seb128, not much, if I send a request to you its due to the overlap
<darkxst> Laney, going back a bit, why is there no ubuntu GNOME package-set?
<Laney> I guess it hasn't been set up
<seb128> darkxst, ok, that seems fine to me, I'm going to comment on the wiki in a bit
<Laney> cjwatson has a script which maintains these
<seb128> what would be included in a such set?
<seb128> would that include everything on the GNOME image?
<seb128> including e.g gtk and co?
<Laney> see xubuntu's one
<darkxst> seb128, yes, but I wouldnt touch gtk apart from trivial fixes
<seb128> k
<Laney> It'd probably discard ubuntu stuff I guess
<Laney> darkxst: want to ask cjw to set that up?
<Laney> then we can see what packages turn up in it; I actually think it'd be fine
<darkxst> Laney, sure
<Laney> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/+junk/packageset/view/head:/packageset-report#L264
<Laney> you'd get added to 271
<Laney> which means that all stuff in ubuntu/kubuntu/edubuntu gets removed
<Laney> if i'm reading it right
<darkxst> Laney, yeh that is what the code says
<Laney> nod
<Laney> i'd be fine with that
<darkxst> Laney, I'm not too fussed either way (we have lots in universe),  however it does seem odd that jbicha applied for Ubuntu GNOME packageset right after we became official and now apparently it doesnt exist
<Laney> jbicha was in ubuntu-desktop and got desktop-extra created so that he could upload all ubuntu gnome stuff
<darkxst> oh!
<Laney> probably getting this fixed back then would have been sensible
<darkxst> and now I can't even find him to give me an endorsement, given he sponsored > 50% of my packages
<darkxst> Laney, seb128, regardless of packagesets etc. I am not going to step on your toes etc. I will either way contact you re overlap packages
<darkxst> I has no idea epiphany was so popular outside the GNOME world]
<Laney> it's more a matter of considering the impact of changes on everyone in the archive
<Laney> to be honest ubuntu cocks that up a lot too
<seb128> right, I don't think epiphany is "so popular", but still we should make sure things keep working
<darkxst> Laney, I go well out of my way to make sure changes work for everyone
<darkxst> but of course I am a dev not a designer
<Laney> i've been impressed with your follow-up work, think I said as much
<seb128> speaking of follow-up work, how is the nautilus 3.10 work going (fixing the few issues I pointed on that merge request)?
<darkxst> seb128, corners are fixed, I can get buttons back to the right size by overriding padding (although that doesnt feel quite right to me)
<seb128> do you know what adwaita is doing differently with the padding?
<darkxst> seb128, not yet, I suspect the real issue here is that nautilus is not using a proper GtkHeaderBar yet
<seb128> no, it's not
<seb128> overriding the padding is fine with me (if it works) btw
<darkxst> seb128, in the theme or nautilus itself?
<seb128> whatever works ;-) nautilus is fine
<seb128> you can maybe open an upstream bug about it and see what they think
<seb128> nautilus bug that is
<darkxst> I expect it will be ported to a proper header bar this cycle
<seb128> that version is not going to be in Ubuntu this cycle though
<seb128> they might want to fix the bug in 3.10 still
<Trevinho> seb128: hey!
<seb128> Trevinho, hey
<Trevinho> seb128: any news on getting newer libcairo in distro?
<seb128> Trevinho, no
 * seb128 wonders wth is upstream doing
<seb128> I've ,no hardware to test the hidpi stuff on either
<Trevinho> seb128: mh... since they don't seem considering the case of doing releases... what about including a git revision? It's something I wouldn't do for a such big component, but if there are no known issues...
<seb128> how do we know that there are "no known issues"?
<Trevinho> seb128: me neither... but you know if you just see big things on normal screen is enough :D
<Trevinho> (as soon as you override it with env vars)
<seb128> lol, no, that would be buggy :p
<Trevinho> ahah, sure
<seb128> but thanks for the reminder
<seb128> I'm going to ping upstream cairo about that again
<Trevinho> as for unity, just having cairo_scale is mostly ok for painting our things, but that would cause everything to scale up considering apps..
<Trevinho> seb128: thanks btw
<seb128> Trevinho, yw
<seb128> Trevinho, we have a desktop week in 10 days, I'm aiming at landing the new cairo by then,
<Trevinho> seb128: ah, yeah I read that... cool
<pitti> hey guys
<pitti> so, for some weeks now the screen saver for my "martin" account is broken; it doesn't come up on ctrl+alt+l nor with the "lock" in the indicator nor on suspend; but it works for other users
<pitti> gnome-screensaver is running
<pitti> any idea how to debug this?
<pitti> when I run it in the foreground, on ctrl+alt+l it says
<pitti> [listener_lock_cb] gs-monitor.c:209 (12:00:40): Locking disabled by the administrator
<pitti> but I don't see a setting for that in control-center
<pitti> but the "Lock" section (lower half of "brightness and locks") is grayed out
<pitti> can I somehow ask gsettings to only show me keys which changed from the schema defaults?
<Laney> pitti: it's controlled by org.gnome.desktop.lockdown disable-lock-screen
<pitti> org.gnome.desktop.lockdown disable-lock-screen true
<Laney> that also greys out the 'lock' settings you're seeing
<pitti> indeed, resetting that makes it work again
<Laney> the question is how that got set to true ...
<pitti> yeah
<pitti> Laney: thanks; at least I can now travel again without leaving it unlocked all the time
<Laney> http://162.213.35.4/search?weighted=1&q=disable-lock-screen
<pitti> Laney: hm, that's still spinning for me
<Laney> takes a while
<Laney> moar caching
<mlankhorst> ka-ching!
<Laney> casper / ubiquity set it to true
<Laney> maybe could happen if you ever ran ubiquity-dm?
<pitti> Laney: well, who knows what I ran to break it
<pitti> sounds unlikely, but not impossible
<pitti> Laney: thanks for pointing out!
<Laney> sure
<Laney> sil2100: did you see my poke about grilo yesterday?
<sil2100> Laney: hmm, hello! I think I might have missed it somehow - what was it about?
<Laney> sil2100: I asked if the patch we have was forwarded
<Laney> hi ;-)
<sil2100> Laney: uuuu, give me a bit and I'll check, as it's been such a long time that I'm completely out-of-date ;)
<Laney> okay, would be nice if you could do it if it isn't as we were in sync and this one looks upstreamable
<sil2100> Sure, that makes sense indeed
 * Sweetshark grumbles something about decision making gone bad.
<Sweetshark> seb128: LibreOffice 4.2.0 for archive at http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/trusty/ -- use it as needed with the poppler transition.
<seb128> Sweetshark, great, thanks
<seb128> Laney, ^ how does that play with the freeze?
<Laney> seb128: it's affected
<Laney> stuff will get stuck in proposed though so you don't have to stop uploading
<Sweetshark> seb128: Im still building the last changes of it, not finished yet (anouther 3 hours). But the changes are really minimal, so should be fine.
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok
<seb128> Laney, right, thanks
<desrt> seb128, Laney, attente, larsu, tkamppeter, mlankhorst, qengho, Sweetshark, desrt: meeting!
<Sweetshark> o/
<qengho> Hey hey!
<Laney> hahaha
<seb128> good
<Laney> he was waiting for that
<seb128> I don't have to lead
<tkamppeter> hi
<mlankhorst> hey
 * seb128 goes back to reply to emails
<qengho> desrt: You waited an entire nine seconds.
 * desrt notes that when he starts the meeting, everyone is here right away
<desrt> qengho: i'll try to do better next time :)
<larsu> desrt: maybe you should run them from now on!
<desrt> okay... now that i have you assembled
<desrt> as my first order of business
<seb128> larsu, that's what he just did
<desrt> i pass the floor to seb :)
<seb128> lol
<larsu> heh
<Sweetshark> desrt: I have a few meetings that you are invited to lead in my place ... ;)
<seb128> desrt, you changed the order as well...
<seb128> let's reverse that list and get started
<seb128> desrt, you are up first ;-)
<desrt> seb128: i'm more concerned about the possibility that maybe i forgot someone
<larsu> seb128: ya. Clearly he's not capable for running the meeting yet
<desrt> damnit
<larsu> desrt: don't worry. You'll be ready when the time comes.
<Laney> he's just doing that to go last
<desrt> so i ended up merging another one of those monster patchsets
<Laney> the cheek
<desrt> the encoding issues of commandline arguments for glib
<desrt> and the menu work for macos is now more or less done (for now)... so that was two major patchsets landed, i guess
<desrt> we also now have GSimpleAction with default handlers for toggles and simple state-changing actions (ie: radios) which will save people from writing those trivial functions over and over again
<larsu> desrt: any progress on the traditional menubar stuff? I could really use that for evince...
<larsu> actually I can't, since we don't have new gtk
<larsu> *cough
<desrt> larsu: ya... it seems like mclasen might be starting to budge a bit on it
<larsu> nice
<desrt> i think the fact that i did my research and made sure that we will have a good case for all OSes is helping to prove the case
<larsu> right
<desrt> his main concern is that it's possibly a bit arbitrary
<seb128> thanks for doing that btw ;-)
<desrt> that we say "modern" vs. "traditonal" and maybe other people want something else elsewhere
<larsu> that's a valid concern
<desrt> but i really think it comes down to the two, more or less
<larsu> I don't like the naming either
<desrt> i wrote up my thoughts here: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722092#c12
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 722092 in GtkApplication "Add GtkApplication resources support" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<desrt> anyway.... i'm currently designing my goptioncontext <-> gapplication friendship bridge
<desrt> so the suffering can finally be over
<desrt> i'm going to toss out the last set of patches i did on the topic
<desrt> in all that encoding work i discovered that goptioncontext isn't awful
<desrt> and i think we should save it and improve it
<desrt> so i am no longer afraid to properly integrate it with gapplication
<desrt> that's it for me, more or less
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<seb128> ok, now let's resume normal order :p
<seb128> qengho, hey
<qengho> yo.
<qengho> * In progress: Preparing new Chromium v 32.0.1700.77 for release.
<qengho> * In progress: More working Hi-DPI for on Cr+gtk.  80% done.  Looking into Aura work One Day.
<qengho> * Next: Touch interface for Cr.
<qengho> EOF
<seb128> nice to see the hi-dpi work getting there
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey
<Sweetshark> - finished my pbuilder/jenkins rework, but still 'graced' with ccache missing cache all the time
<Sweetshark> - some upstream QA mentoring
<Sweetshark> - coordination upstream QA towards a more sane bug priotizing workflow
<Sweetshark> - TDF BoD call and followup on some flamefesty decisions on TDF assets
<Sweetshark> - usual TDF ESC call: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/minutes-of-ESC-call-td4092648.html various tidbits
<Sweetshark> - jumped in to create libabw repo on upstream gerrit for abiword import filters for LibreOffice
<Sweetshark> - moved away some QA/infra ticket queues from upstream OTRS as that likely will be decommissioned
<Sweetshark> - fixed fdo#71511 on upstream master which was an a11y regression introduced by a patch from bdrung that I upstreamed, also for review on -4-2 (its in the branch now and should be in trusty/4.2.1. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71511
<ubot2`> Freedesktop bug 71511 in Writer "Writer no longer uses Text and Background Colours from Windows High-Contrast theme for displaying document" [Major,Verified: fixed]
<Sweetshark> - some direction on the effort to give bibisect https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/HowToBibisect an GUI for enduser bug triage
<Sweetshark> - some concepts about LibreOffice without Java on LTS -- as of now, all suck.
<Sweetshark> - finished the -l10n source pkg split off and pushed this to the prereleases PPA, no obvious bugs so far
<Sweetshark> - thus we should now again have all l10ns in the PPA, which should spare me a few nagmails per week by $randomuser about it, and have one prereq for getting libreoffice rolling checked
<Sweetshark> - prepared a 4.2.0~rc2 trusty/main (first new major, fingers crossed)
<Sweetshark> EOF
<Sweetshark> (yes, I cheated an took a look at my sent mail folder this time)
<desrt>  - drank a lot of mate and fritz.  didn't sleep.
<desrt> (busy week...)
<Sweetshark> desrt: nah, thats a normal week, usually I spare you the details ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, did you get any feedback from rene on the l10N changes?
<Sweetshark> seb128: nope
<Sweetshark> seb128: well, rene wanted to have minimal tarballs (no duplication) as a prereq. so he wont use it for 4.2 anyway.
<seb128> ok
<Sweetshark> seb128: I guess we can work that out for 4.3 on debian
<seb128> Sweetshark, I'm going to follow up on the java stuff after the meeting
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey
<mlankhorst> Fixing drm kernel issues, frantically getting everything ready for merge window, keeping xorg 1.15 updated in the ppa. Testing mesa with dri3, last prerequisite outside of updated xorg/mesa in the archive.
<mlankhorst> and libxcb update + dependencies
<seb128> ok
<seb128> what's the current status of xorg 1.15?
<mlankhorst> waiting for fglrx, ready to go
<mlankhorst> dri3 won't work for now :)
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> soz, someone came to the door
<Laney> window cleaner ...
<Laney> â¢ cogl transition
<Laney> â¢ GNOME updates: d-conf glib
<Laney> â glib test failures: gather information, forward upstream, disable in Ubuntu (all new tests in this release which are extremely sensitive in our buildd/CI environment)
<Laney> â forward glib-networking test failure upstream; receive fix from danw & test it works, which it does!
<Laney> â¢ Work on webkitgtk 2.3.4, failures on i386 and ppc - testing fixes on porter box / de-virt PPA now
<Laney> â Notice webp transition & upload for that
<Laney> â£ Pillow (python-pil) autopkgtest fails due to a dubious assumption that webp images will be bit-for-bit identical across libwebp releases. Fix the test by generating the image before running the test.
<Laney> â¢ Alpha 2 wrangling: disable automatic builds, set up tracker, install freeze block, kick initial rebuilds. Most of the hard/time consuming work is being done by Riddell.
<Laney> â¢ system-settings autopilot tests - some minor improvements, get stressed about annoying failures (differences between running on desktop vs. phone, argh). Might have a lead on a workaround now. Need to fix an issue where starting a private bus means you have to mock ALL the dbus things (ofono tests fail). Will start it only when needed for now.
<Laney> â
<seb128> Laney, you should maybe mp your current fixes for system-settings/autopilot, let me know if you want me to take over/try to get the other issues resolved
<Laney> I want to get it all passing really
<Laney> then we can start from a clean state
<Laney> it's all in that ap-fixes branch though
<seb128> right, I'm just offering to share the annoyance to get there
<Laney> sure
<Laney> let me do this dbus thing and then I'll see what's left
<seb128> k
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released 1.0.44 with support for PPD-less printing in gstopxl (PCL-XL filter), and automatic Poppler/Ghostscript selection in pdftoippprinter (PPD-less printing).
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters, cups: Splitting of binary packages to allow small (mobile) printing stack with only basic filters for printing PPD-less on IPP printers with PDF, PostScript, PWG Raster, or PCL
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> debugged compiz and i-keyboard tests
<attente> tried to debug Ambiance's missing menu separators, found the regression, but not a solution
<attente> added global menu bar alt-mnemonics to the key grabber PPA (holding alt to reveal the menu bar still doesn't work though, and there's a bug with multi-monitor)
<attente> EOF
<seb128> attente, how is the compiz work going?
<seb128> also what's the ambiance/menu issue?
<attente> seb128, the MP just needs a review
<seb128> good
<attente> and menu separators are invisible under ambiance
<seb128> is that a GTK 3.10 issue?
<seb128> could be one for larsu? ;-)
<attente> i think it's a theming issue
<larsu> seb128: I've already talked to attente about it and he offered to look into it
<attente> there's a commit in ubuntu-themes that when reverted fixes the problem
<larsu> I can help if there are any problems, though
<seb128> ok
<seb128> what commit?
<larsu> attente: which one?
<attente> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/ubuntu-themes/trunk/revision/315
<attente> the WideSeparators line
<larsu> bah, not that again
<seb128> seems like larsu knows about that topic...
<attente> if we remove it, the separators appear again, but the bug it corrects breaks again
<seb128> hum, k
<attente> it's unaffected in radiance though
<seb128> no point discussing/debugging it during the meeting but might be a good after-meeting topic
<attente> ok
<seb128> attente, btw did you see that https://code.launchpad.net/~bfiller/ubuntu-keyboard/ubuntu-keyboard-active-language/+merge/201990 landed?
<seb128> attente, which means we can do the settings side now
<attente> seb128, oh, i hadn't. thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> attente, thanks
<seb128> larsu, your turn
<larsu> cool
<larsu> I continued on evince but descoped it a bit due to taking too long (I initially wanted to port away from GtkAction completely)
<larsu> I now have a version that exports a menubar natively
<larsu> and am fighting with 3.10/master issues
<larsu> both in evince and gtk
<larsu> we really need desrt's set_accels_for_action backported I think :(
<seb128> don't you dare asking for 3.12
<larsu> in between a couple of small things popped up, like more gedit theming fixes
<larsu> oh, and that indicator sound gsettings issue
<desrt> larsu: hahahah
<desrt> good luck backporting that :(
<larsu> desrt: ya...
<larsu> I really want to export the menu natively, thouh
<larsu> but if that means we don't get multiple accels, that kind of sucks
<desrt> you can still use gtkaction for your accels....
<desrt> :/
<larsu> bah
<desrt> i wonder if we could convince Laney to accidentally upload the new gtk
<larsu> then we can just not use those patches at all and use unity-gtk-module
<larsu> which totally wasn't the point of this excercise...
<larsu> desrt: seb128 might become a bit mad about that
<desrt> i think we should give it a serious talk at the desktop weak, fwiw
<seb128> who is being weak?
<larsu> weak? srsly?
<seb128> let's talk about it at the desktop strong yeah
<desrt> *week.  sorry.
<seb128> ;-)
<larsu> seb128: LOL
<desrt> trying to have too many conversations at once :)
<Laney> haha
<seb128> ok
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<Laney> let's just get seb drunk
<desrt> "desktop strong"   /me has flashbacks to boston
<seb128> so, my turn
<seb128>  * some desktop updates (gimp, gnome-screenshot, goocanvas, glade, harfbuzz, e-d-s)
<seb128>  * desktop bugs fixes (eog hanging on dialog close, g-s-d/fontconfig polling issues, nautilus sidebar status being wrong, accountsservice polling issue)
<seb128>  * desktop bugs triage
<seb128>  * started reviewing the ubuntu-system-settings current design/compared to the implementation to list things to check on/change
<seb128>  * looked at the archive rebuild test results, fixed some builds
<seb128>  * lot of random discussions and look at issues (like the dconf write on login)
<seb128> </week>
<Laney> oh yeah i didn't look at the rebuild yet
<Laney> got the link handy?
<Laney> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20140108-trusty.html
<desrt> seb128: what do you think should be the recommended punishment for when we find people writing to dconf at login?
<seb128> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20140108-trusty.html
<seb128> Laney, bah :p
<seb128> desrt, ice cream?
<Laney> they have to fill out a spreadsheet for every commit from now on
<Laney> </troll>
<seb128> (when they fix it, which larsu did ;-)
<desrt> i mean... clearly these rules are not having an effect... we need mandatory minimum sentences...
<desrt> i hear those always prevent crimes
<larsu> desrt: it'd be nice if we had some kind of test for that
<larsu> in my case, a seemingly harmless commit did the damage
<seb128> yeah, right
<desrt> larsu: i asked for one a very long time ago from the QA guys
<desrt> who said they would do it
<desrt> not sure what became of that
<larsu> right. I don't think it's reasonable to manually test that all the time
<larsu> and as we saw, people (aka "me") forget
<seb128> desrt, so many priority changes recently (especially with touch), I guess that got dropped on the way
<seb128> ok, on that note
<seb128> is there any question/comment?
<seb128> seems not, that's a wrap then
<seb128> thanks everyone!
<Laney> cheers
<desrt> okay everyone
<desrt> i declare this meeting to be over
<desrt> seb128: thanks for your help this week with chairing the meeting
<seb128> desrt, yw ;-) (thanks for getting everyone around, that worked well, nobody was late missing)
<ochosi> larsu: quick question, is there an eta for robert_ancell's indicator-power-patch (unity-control-center2) so i can rebase my branch on it?
<attente> ChrisTownsend, hi
<ChrisTownsend> attente: Hey, what's up?
<attente> ChrisTownsend, just wondering if you had time to help review https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/compiz/plugin-actions/+merge/200307
<ChrisTownsend> attente: Oh, ok, that's ready again.  Sure, I'll review it soon.
<ChrisTownsend> attente: Thanks for reminding me:)
<larsu> ochosi: I approved it, right? It should have been merged already
<attente> ChrisTownsend, thanks
<ochosi> larsu: approved but not merged as far as i can see
<larsu> ochosi: we're talking about this one, right? https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/indicator-power/unity-control-center2/+merge/201130
<larsu> I wonder what happened, I remember approving it after we talked about this last time
<ochosi> larsu: yeah, that one
<ochosi> i don't see it in https://code.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-power/trunk.14.04
<larsu> right, let me try again
<ochosi> ok :)
 * larsu keeps the tab open this time to check up on it
<ochosi> hehe
<larsu> ochosi: it's merged
<ochosi> larsu: thanks, will ping you again once my branch is rebased
<Laney> oops
<Laney> almost made the u-s-s tests flaky
<seb128> keyword "almost" ;-)
<Laney> dragging causes a flick which meant that sometimes the pointer would miss the thing it tried to click on
<brainwash> larsu: hey, so xubuntu 14.04 palns to ship a wrapper for the gtk3 indicators, everything seems to work fine so far, but the sound indicator tends to not load its panel icon (basically it stays invisible). actions like volume change or mute do not restore the icon, only killing the sound indicator service does eventually. any ideas how to debug this race condition?
<ochosi> larsu: ok, rebased the patch and resubmitted the merge-proposal
<ali1234> brainwash: i bet that is related to the xfdesktop wrong-theme bug and the gtk stock icons problems
<ali1234> remember what happened when i tried to use a stock icon in the indicator, and that stock icon wasn't available?
<brainwash> but it happens randomly
<ali1234> so does the xfdesktop problem
<brainwash> and other indicator don't seem to be affected
<brainwash> xfdesktop only on session start
<ali1234> sound ndicator is only affected on session start too
<brainwash> did you try to kill the sound indicator service to force the invisible icon?
<ali1234> yes
<brainwash> and it never happened?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it only ever happens at session startup for me
<brainwash> wait, but a volume change or mute do not restore the icon
<brainwash> or does that not matter
<brainwash> ali1234: I was able to force the missing icon
<brainwash> mid session
<attente> Trevinho, not really sure what we should call that method tbh...
<Trevinho> attente: mh
<attente> Trevinho, maybe something like getNonOptionActions?
<Trevinho> Well, I mostly was concerned by the class Class thing...
<brainwash> ali1234: killed the service like 20 times and it failed 3 times
<attente> Trevinho, oh. that's what's done in CompOption
<attente> Trevinho, i thought it'd be more convenient to use the same convention
<Trevinho> mh, ok... yeah, I wondered it was inheredited from it..
<attente> Trevinho, it's also a non-const reference returned there, but i can fix both in the MP
<attente> Trevinho, what about Container?
<Trevinho> attente: yeah, better...
<attente> ok, i'll update it
<attente> (just the CompAction::Class, i'm not changing the CompOption::Class name)
<Laney> yay
<Laney> all the AP tests pass on the phone!
<seb128> Laney, \o/
<Laney> doesn't mean they will work for anyone else
<Laney> I know how this stuff goes :P
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> yeah, they fail under a french locale to start
<didrocks> TheMuso: hey, FYI, we had to revert at-spi2-core (more info on the ubuntu-phone ML) to get back to a nice state. We can chat at the sprint I guess
<Laney> I get a UnicodeDecodeError traceback under fr_FR.UTF-8
<Laney> ho hum
<seb128> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~vrruiz/ubuntu-system-settings/autopilot/+merge/192869/comments/454716
<seb128> Laney, I didn't block the merge on that to be fixed because it already took way to land to get that stuff to land (there was like a week delay between review comments and fixes)
<Laney> did you see the same python error?
<seb128> Laney, no, I get 4 errors
<seb128>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/ubuntu_system_settings/tests/__init__.py", line 117, in assert_space_item
<seb128>     self.assertThat(len(values), GreaterThan(1))
<seb128>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/testtools/testcase.py", line 412, in assertThat
<seb128>     raise MismatchError(matchee, matcher, mismatch, verbose)
<seb128> MismatchError: 1 is not < 1
<Laney> ah I just ran test_about
<seb128> Laney, that's because the value there is coming from the split which is buggy with the french spaces
<seb128> Laney, that's in test_about afaik
<Laney> shrug
<Laney> can look at that another time
<Laney> PS4 time now ;-)
<seb128> yeah, don't bother about it
<seb128> Laney, have fun!
<Laney> thanks, see you!
 * Sweetshark realizes he will have 4 hours of conference calls in the next 7 days (so far).
<Sweetshark> *urgh*
<Sweetshark> seb128: the 4.2.0~rc2/trusty build finished and succeeded.
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, did your graphics issues get resolved?
<Sweetshark> oh, Linus flamed us on slashdot yesterday?
 * Sweetshark grabs popcorn.
<robert_ancell> larsu, thanks for the indicator merge
<robert_ancell> larsu, who's managing the other indicators?
<jasoncwarner> robert_ancell it appears to have. I did another update and it went away. I still have n-m crashes, but seem to be unrelated.
<jasoncwarner> Sweetshark: link?
<jasoncwarner> Sweetshark: nm, found it
<robert_ancell> tedg, are you still looking after indicators?
<tedg> robert_ancell, Sure
<tedg> What's up?
<robert_ancell> tedg, can you get some momentum on https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/indicator-bluetooth/unity-control-center2/+merge/201118, https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/indicator-session/unity-control-center2/+merge/201131, https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/indicator-sound/unity-control-center2/+merge/201132
<robert_ancell> would like to land these so we can switch on unity-control-center by default
<tedg> Ah, okay.
<tedg> What's happening with like XFCE?
<tedg> Shouldn't we be doing it by env var instead of whether it's in the path?
<robert_ancell> tedg, we can check if XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP is Unity as well if you'd like
<tedg> robert_ancell, That makes sense to me, you?
<robert_ancell> tedg, sure, I'll update those MPs
<tedg> Cool, thanks!
<ali1234> Xfce currently has an upstart session, but the indicators get started by XDG
<ali1234> we are looking to add support for the new launching style to lightdm-gtk-greeter too
<ali1234> Xubuntu also probably wants to use some bits from u-c-c, since we have the same problems with g-c-c that you do
<TheMuso> didrocks: I won't be there. seb128 asked me to update it...
<ali1234> regarding XDG vs upstart, i think upstart is preferable since XDG seems to have no mechanism for restarting the indicators if they crash
<ali1234> i assume upstart can do this
<TheMuso> ...and there is no need for at-spi to be on touch atm...
<robert_ancell> tedg, on indicators and u-c-c. Do you want to move the date time panel from indicator-datetime into u-c-c?
<tedg> robert_ancell, I don't see any reason to leave it in g-c-c, charles?
<ali1234> relevant: bug 1074314
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1074314 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime configuration panel only works in Unity session" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074314
<charles> they share a small amount of formatting code from utils.c, so it's a little ugly to duplicate that I guess
<charles> but that's minor
<robert_ancell> there's no need to move it unless it makes life easier
<charles> Other than the code duplication, which is minor, I don't mind either way
<tedg> I think long term it does as we'll want indicator-datetime to be more touch focused.  Short term I don't think it makes a huge difference.
<tedg> It'll shrink the build-deps for indicator-datetime
<charles> One thing, I have a pretty large MP for datetime coming, so if we act on 1074314 I'd prefer we do it after that goes through
<charles> hm, that's related, but not exactly the same. robert_ancell, is there a ticket already for separating out the panel code?
<robert_ancell> charles, no ticket
<charles> k
<robert_ancell> charles, we would need to wait until after the u-c-c migration occurs because it would drop support for g-c-c
<charles> robert_ancell: that sounds good. At that point let's move it over
<charles> I don't have strong feelings on this either way but ted's point about reducing i-datetime's deps makes sense
<robert_ancell> I'll open a bug
<robert_ancell> charles, bug 1271339
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1271339 in Indicator Date and Time "Move panel to unity-control-center" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271339
<robert_ancell> tedg, those MPs are updated now
<robert_ancell> darkxst, regarding lp:~darkxst/gnome-control-center/vanilla - you can own that branch now since I'm not going to do anymore g-c-c updates. Once we do the switch to u-c-c by default you should be able to upload those changes
<darkxst> robert_ancell, ok
<robert_ancell> tedg, is there a plan to migrate indicator-datetime to geoclue 2.0?
<tedg> robert_ancell, No plan, is that a trusty thing?
<robert_ancell> tedg, I just noticed the new version is there in the archive, just wondering if we'll update to it
<tedg> Hmm, I'd need to update ubuntu-geoip as well.
<robert_ancell> the indicator is the only thing pulling it in
<robert_ancell> yes
<tedg> I have nothing against it, but I doubt I'll have time before feature freeze.
<robert_ancell> I'll file a bug :)
<darkxst> I don't think that will be to easy, geoclue-2.0 does not support custom backends
<tedg> Ha, awesome!
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-01-22
<bregma> robert_ancell, your unity-session-compositor LightDM branch is working really well for me, but is there any way to configure environment variables to pass to unity-system-compositor before starting it?
<robert_ancell> bregma, not that I can think of, what sort of variables?
<bregma> ANDROID_ROOT in particular, used to find device configuration files (instead of /system)
<robert_ancell> bregma, you can make a shell script for the compositor and set the name of that in lightdm.conf
<robert_ancell> if that's something more permanent, we could look into options
<bregma> yeah, that was my next plan, assuming even using device files will solve my problem
<robert_ancell> I'm not sure off hand if the global env variables make it through to the compositor or we have a clean environment
<bregma> well, it's probably a sort of last-resort solution anyway, since going that route woukld require shipping device configuration for pretty much every known device
<bregma> but if that's what it takes....
<robert_ancell> yeah, shell script time for you :)
<robru> cyphermox, hey i installed urfkill... how will i know it's working? what steps should I take o test it?
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> pitti: Thanks for chacing down that espeak issue. That really was a weird one.
<TheMuso> Well... Working around the dpkg issue that is.
<pitti> TheMuso: well, it's not dpkg, it's overlayfs/aufs
<pitti> TheMuso: and I'm far from proud about that workaround, but I didn't find a better one
<pitti> Laney: do you know what holds glib 2.38 back from unstable?
<Laney> morning
<Laney> pitti: the ftbfs
<seb128> hey laney
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> how's it going?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<pitti> hey Laney
<Laney> hola
<seb128> pitti, guten tag! wie gehts?
<seb128> Laney, good! you?
<pitti> Laney: ah, of course
<Laney> bigon was looking at the build failures a bit but I don't think he got anywhere
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke!
<Laney> good thanks seb128!
<Laney> pub quiz last night ;-)
<Laney> seb128: seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1260473 ?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1260473 in Ubuntu Kylin "The slide bar that allow to rezise the partition does not appear" [Medium,Triaged]
<seb128> Laney, now I did ... that seems similar to https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ubiquity/lp1260396
<seb128> that fix landed right? (I didn't follow up, that was during my holidays, just saw it mentioned when looking to what happened while I was not there)
<seb128> Laney, the mp got approved only on monday and we didn't have an ubiquity upload since
<Laney> not sure that's the same
<seb128> yeah, me neither
<seb128> it would be good to land an update with the fix from Lars though
<seb128> would it only be to avoid debugging something that's already fixed (if that turns out to be the same issue)
<seb128> xnox, hey, do you plan to do an ubiquity update in trusty?
<seb128> didrocks, hey, do you have any opinion on what integration tests we should have before merging https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntu-system-settings/click-updates/+merge/195729 in?
<seb128> didrocks, there is some pushback in recent comment saying it makes the review longer and should be in another merge later on, I'm just unsure that they are going to care once that one land so I'm tempted to ask for the branch with tests to be ready before we merge that one
<didrocks> seb128: for system image update, it would be nice to use barry's mock and that the mock so that we ensure we receive the right signals
<didrocks> seb128: well, if I were you, I would really bind the 2 merges (tests and code) together, otherwise, you know how it goes
<seb128> didrocks, I guess they are going to argue that the system image is your code and that they didn't change/don't own it :p
<seb128> right
<didrocks> seb128: they did change it, right?
<seb128> they changed the UI and refactored
<didrocks> yeah, both the UI and backend
<seb128> didrocks, well, it looks like they kept most of your updates.cpp, just did s/updates/systemupdate
<seb128> in any case, let's me try to get them to add some more testing there
<didrocks> seb128: there are some new objects retaining all states, not sure the signaling is still working
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> seb128: and yeah, you know how QML can be, when changing it :p
<seb128> didrocks, so, can I try to land the u-s-s update we put in CI train yesterday or is the system down due to the canonistack issues?
<didrocks> seb128: you can try, there are a lot of network issues
<didrocks> so be prepare to run and rerun
<seb128> didrocks, is #is looking at those?
<didrocks> seb128: not sure, asked twice yesteday
<didrocks> nothing happened
<seb128> did you get anyone responding?
<didrocks> in meetingâ¦
<didrocks> well, everyone using canonistack
<didrocks> so yeah
<xnox> seb128: after bug #1260473 is fixed, ubiquity will be uploaded.
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1260473 in Ubuntu Kylin "The slide bar that allow to rezise the partition does not appear" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260473
<seb128> xnox, so it's a different issue than the one larsu fixed?
<xnox> which also appears to be a gtk+ / themeing bug.
<seb128> xnox, do you need help debugging it? is it easy to reproduce?
<xnox> seb128: yeah, larsu's fixed is good. the installer is no 3X width the monitor screen.
<xnox> seb128: well... we have a custom widget that is using deprecated gtkwidget themeing.... what could go wrong?! =)
 * xnox needs to do a minimal example. As going from start to "dual-boot install" takes some time.
<seb128> xnox, yeah, having a small example code would be nice
<didrocks> seb128: ok, seems we are going to redeploy another instance in lcy01
<didrocks> seb128: as I can't get any instance up on lcy02, it means I can't rsync the filesystem :/
<didrocks> so, I'll have to rerun your build job with the same parameters
<didrocks> (and reconfigure the silos)
<didrocks> mind if I do that? So that you are unblocked ASAP
<czajkowski> Laney: which train are you on to FOSDEM ?
<Laney> 1532 or so
<czajkowski> :(
<seb128> didrocks, whatever unblocks the upload wfm
<didrocks> seb128: ok ;)
<Laney> y u sad
<didrocks> asac: FYI, applying the band-aid version (I'll rerun the stuff for seb128 to not have to redo it himself) ^
<seb128> didrocks, I've other changes to land today btw, not sure if we want to batch those or just redo a landing
<czajkowski> Laney: I'm on the 12
<ochosi> seb128: thanks for checking my merge-request on indicator-power and spotting the obvious whoopsie. anyway, i was also wondering whether this patch doesn't introduce problems for ubuntu-gnome, or are they not using indicators at all?
<didrocks> seb128: as you prefer, we can do that, sure
<Laney> czajkowski: the other uk-ers too?
<czajkowski> yp about 10 going from our LUG
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> Laney: stop by the NoSQL room on sunday will be there all day for a cupcake!
<Laney> ^_^
<mlankhorst> ;D
<seb128> ochosi, yw, larsu said he's going to tweak it and land it I think
<asac> didrocks: what is the bandaid version?
<asac> is that the bandaid of the bandaid :P
<seb128> ochosi, well, Ubuntu GNOME doesn't use indicators so they shouldn't be impacted by whatever the indicator code is doing
<didrocks> asac: redeploying somewhere else and rerunning myself the job so that seb128 is in the same state
<ochosi> seb128: ah, nice!
<ochosi> seb128: ok, that's good to hear, cause i was afraid that the gnome-control-center call was for them...
<asac> didrocks: yeah. unfortunate, but this exercise of redeploying etc. is probably worth it
<asac> didrocks: how would the system behave if we just deploy it 2-3 times (e.g. on different regions)
<asac> and the switch to whereever we get what we want?
<seb128> ochosi, I think the g-c-c call was more "we didn't think much about the different usecase and let the old command as default"
<didrocks> asac: not possible accross regions
<didrocks> asac: the rules for having something quick were clear: one instance, one filesystem
<asac> didrocks: sure, but we could have one spare?
<didrocks> asac: well, you have to rsync the filesystem between the 2
 * asac guesses that causs races etc.
<didrocks> which isn't possible here
<didrocks> as we even can't brought up an instance on lcy02 to attach to filesystem
<ochosi> seb128: i see. well i'm sure ubuntu-studio will also be greatful for this getting in, as it'll make it very easy for them to also use -power if they want to, so thanks for the quick review!
<seb128> ochosi, yw ;-)
<ochosi> larsu: let me know if you want me to update the MR or if you're just going to throw the "gchar *path;" and "g_free (path);" into the Unity-if yourself
<asac> didrocks: that is only if you dont want to risk loosing progress on active landings/silos?
<asac> e.g. what will we loose if we redo the filesystem?
<didrocks> asac: right
<asac> ok thats fine
<didrocks> all progress
<didrocks> all silo attributions
<asac> for a moment i was scared that we need to backup filesystem
<larsu> ochosi: I'm doing it right now. Thanks!
<didrocks> asac: and changing instance means changing some metadata on the spreadsheet, meaning if people keep IP directly, they won't work
<asac> didrocks: the IP is recorded in the spreadsheet for the silo? what else?
<didrocks> well, here, we need to have new public IP
<asac> e.g. what else is instance specific
<didrocks> and new firewall rules
<didrocks> but that's only one time, we'll keep both opened then
<asac> ok. we cant reassign the IP:)
<asac> like elastic ips?
<asac> maybe we have something like that?
<asac> note: this is just theory talk so i understand better
<didrocks> I don't think they have this notion accross instances
<ochosi> larsu: ok, thank *you* in fact :)
<Laney> bah
<Laney> webkit ooming on the porterbox
<seb128> Laney, well, does it mean that it went far enough that it should build?
<Laney> not quite ...
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> -Wl,--reduce-memory-overheads HEAR MY CALL
<mitya57> Didn't Debian fix the FTBFS on i386 recently?
<Laney> I'm not looking at that
<Laney> (ppc)
<mitya57> Ah, yes, ppc
<mitya57> Then I am waiting for your fix to apply it to qtwebkit :)
<Laney> does that track webkit 2.3.x?
<mitya57> 2.3 is webkitgtk numeration, not upstream one
<Laney> you know what I mean
<Laney> I'm trying something quite similar to http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/webkitgtk3.git/tree/webkitgtk-1.11.5-libatomic.patch?id=2d4347bc2e76a07a8a0d6e8260730dfc91b0410e
<mitya57> qtwebkit 5.2.0 is webkit 538.1, don't know about the gtk one
<Laney> trying one more time with --reduce-memory-overheads
<Laney> otherwise I'll just take the chance probably
<didrocks> seb128: sil2100: can you check that you can login in and have enough rights on http://162.213.34.102/ ? (to run some jobs)
<seb128> didrocks, what job can I try on?
<didrocks> seb128: just check if you have the "build" button
<seb128> didrocks, I don't
<seb128> didrocks, on what job should I have one?
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> everyone but deploy
<seb128> I tried http://162.213.34.102/job/landing-001-1-build/
<didrocks> and configure silo
<didrocks> ok, let me check
<didrocks> seb128: when you logged in, you have tick the teams you are in, right?
<sil2100> hmm, I have some problems logging in
<seb128> didrocks, yes, u-c-d
<seb128> didrocks, but even without that, before I had a build button even when not logged in
<seb128> clicking on the button would send me to the auth page
<seb128> didrocks, http://ubuntuone.com/3X3SNx74hOelkX9J5kuZDE
<didrocks> seb128: I don't see a build button here, you meant, you had one when not logged in?
<sil2100> didrocks: do I have to create a new ubuntu one account here? Since it seems I cannot get my existing credentials to work
<seb128> didrocks, yes, remember the discussion the other time? I had the "build" button even when not logged in before
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, it's using staging sso
<seb128> didrocks, I first though it was a bug, but clicking on it was sending to a login page
<didrocks> seb128: it's when you go to the build page directly
<didrocks> (this isn't the build page)
<seb128> oh
<seb128> I got confused by jenkins UI again
<seb128> well, anyway, I'm logged in and checked the u-c-d team (which was the only listed)
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> let me check why
<seb128> didrocks, is the canonical team supposed to be in the list?
<didrocks> seb128: no, is it?
<seb128> (it's not)
<didrocks> ok ;)
<didrocks> we can't
<seb128> no, but I though it was before
<didrocks> as we are not whitelisted
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> there was a canonica-ci
<didrocks> canonical-ci*
 * didrocks finished to resetup the rsync
<didrocks> ok, now let's see those creds
<didrocks> seb128: better now?
<seb128> didrocks, yes
<seb128> didrocks, http://ubuntuone.com/3X3SNx74hOelkX9J5kuZDE
<seb128> ups
<seb128> didrocks, http://162.213.34.102/job/landing-001-1-build/1/
<seb128> "/tmp/hudson1182320129477473757.sh: line 5: cd: /var/lib/jenkins/silos/landing-001: No such file or directory"
<seb128> didrocks, :-(
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I didn't assign you the silo yet
<didrocks> and the firewall for rsync isn't opened by IS
<didrocks> (as the IP changed)
<didrocks> seb128: want me to attribute the silo so that you can build?
<didrocks> or you want to add more components first?
<didrocks> sil2100: in addition to seb128's right, you should be able to see the build button for deploy-jenkins
<seb128> didrocks, let's attribute the silo, we can do another landing later
<didrocks> ok :)
<didrocks> launchpad authorization done
<didrocks> let's attribute
<didrocks> seb128: ok, you can try to run a build
<didrocks> seb128: sil2100: I'm reverting to login.ubuntu instead of staging
<sil2100> \o/
<didrocks> sil2100: mind testing and so answering if the creds are fine?
 * didrocks pushed his changes to prod
<sil2100> didrocks: ok, so I'm logged in now and I had ubuntu-unity team in it
<didrocks> sil2100: so, do you see the build button to the deploy-jenkibs job?
<sil2100> didrocks: and I see build with parameters on landing-001-1-build
<sil2100> didrocks: yes
<didrocks> great!
<sil2100> :)
<didrocks> sil2100: can you try to reassign the second silo? would be a good exercise :)
<didrocks> sil2100: only the jenkins job is needed, not the spreadsheet part
<didrocks> asac: so, we're back on shape, I just rebuilt an instance and improved the install rules
<didrocks> asac: just the status isn't synced back to the spreadsheet and we can't copy packages to distro until rsync from the new IP address is allowed
<didrocks> asac: ev will work on that once he's back
<seb128> didrocks, build running (sorry, was have lunch, I'm back now)
<didrocks> seb128: let's look if it's starting fine
<sil2100> didrocks: how can I do a reassign by using only jenkins? Which job to use?
<seb128> didrocks, it is, it's installing packages
<didrocks> seb128: sweet!
<didrocks> sil2100: you have the link in the assign silo menu
 * didrocks now praises that there is just one call to change to update all links :p
<didrocks> seb128: great, uploaded to the ppa it seems
<seb128> nice
<didrocks> let's hope the gpg is rightly setup
<didrocks> we'll see it soon :)
<didrocks> seems it signed successfully at least
<sil2100> didrocks: destination is Ubuntu archive, yes? ;)
<didrocks> launchpadlib creds matches
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, so keep it empty
<didrocks> seb128: https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/landing-001/+builds?build_state=building
<sil2100> didrocks: reconfigure_silo set to landing-002 (just confirming if doing it irght)
<didrocks> ok, now, I can work on what I planned at 10am :p
<seb128> didrocks, great
<didrocks> sil2100: you can try this ;) (it's a special case, as we don't really have a config file)
<didrocks> sil2100: let's see ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: if you don't set anything, it will take next available silo anyway
<didrocks> which is landing-002 :p
<sil2100> didrocks: oh noes... sil2100 is missing the Job/Build permission
<sil2100> ;_;
<didrocks> sil2100: humâ¦ you checked ubuntu-unity, right?
<didrocks> oh
<didrocks> I redeployed all jobs
<sil2100> Yes
<didrocks> not that one
<didrocks> uno momento
<didrocks> sil2100: retry
<sil2100> didrocks: yay, seems to work!
<didrocks> great!
<sil2100> Finished: SUCCESS
<didrocks> sweet, all good then :)
<asac> didrocks: ok thanks. i hope it takes not too long
<sil2100> Assigned to landing-002
<didrocks> asac: let's seeâ¦
<sil2100> SO all is cool
<didrocks> sil2100: thanks :)
<didrocks> sil2100: back to landing -> did yu publish the keyboard?
<sil2100> didrocks: thank *you* ;)
<didrocks> (I don't see it in -changes)
<sil2100> didrocks: yes, I pressed the button at least
<didrocks> as I'll need that to update the seeds
<didrocks> hum, and the artefacts were created?
<sil2100> Let me check
<didrocks> I have an idea what can happen
<sil2100> http://q-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Services/job/cu2d-services-head-3.0publish/127/console <- hum
<sil2100> So not good...
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> I guess the rsync on snakefruit doesn't happen
<didrocks> as the script is set -e
<didrocks> and now that the jenkins other node isn't reachableâ¦
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, that was it, unblocked
<didrocks> and added || true to first request
<sil2100> didrocks: thanks ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: yw! think about looking at -changes please :)
<sil2100> didrocks: there is this as well -> https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/ubuntu-keyboard/some_packaging_changes/+merge/202654 (not top priority)
<sil2100> didrocks: it's still not lintian-free, but well...
<sil2100> didrocks: will do :)!
<didrocks> sil2100: approved
<didrocks> sil2100: I don't see hub and libcolumbus though
<didrocks> seb128: hum, do you see deja-dup, wasn't it in g-c-c? (or visible in the dash)
<didrocks> I may have remove the g-c-c plugin part, just checking
<seb128> shrug
<didrocks> hum, deja-dup binary package has the plugin normally
<seb128> 3 person to ask the question this week :p
<didrocks> ahah :)
<seb128> didrocks, it's showing in unity-control-center and not gnome-control-center
<seb128> mterry knows about it
<seb128> (it's supposed to show in both)
<seb128> we didn't switch defaults yet because everything didn't get transitionned for u-c-c
<seb128> but that's ongoing work
<didrocks> seb128: ok, as we are still shipping g-c-c by defaultâ¦ :p
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> well, the intend was to have it in both
<seb128> there is a bug, we discussed with mterry on monday
<didrocks> I can see that as /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/control-center-1/panels/libdeja-dup.so
<seb128> I guess he's going to fix it
<didrocks> ok ;)
 * didrocks install u-c-c
<seb128> that's likely a key in the .desktop issue
<seb128> you can run the standalone deja-dup UI otherwise
<didrocks> probably, yeah
<didrocks> I never know how to get the main panel
<seb128> would give you an idea of how client side decoration don't work on Unity ;-)
<didrocks> it's only restore or save
<seb128> didrocks, run "deja-dup-preferences"?
<didrocks> ah -preferences
<didrocks> seb128: come on, there is a beautiful decoration there!
<didrocks> invisible, but I'm sure, beautiful :)
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> happyaron: are kylin doing some alpha 2 testing?
<happyaron> Laney: I think they are mainly busy working on those third party cooperation projects
<xnox> seb128: thanks for the new glade! so much better.
<xnox> seb128: i'm however, loading ubiquity custom python widgets catalog, and it appears to be marking one of my widgets as "deprecated" (but no other), not sure why
<seb128> xnox, yw!
<seb128> I don't know about the deprecation either
<Laney> happyaron: would be good to have some if there's to be a release
<seb128> Laney, hum, would it make sense to override the fileselector setting in ubuntu-settings rather than in the gtk source?
<Laney> hmm
<seb128> Laney, that's where we moved the Ubuntu overrides for other sources, it makes easier for other flavors to make different decisions than us
<seb128> to take*
<seb128> on that note, I'm away for some exercice, be back in ~1h
<Laney> I was thinking of it as a "gtk" choice rather than an "ubuntu desktop" one
<Laney> don't really mind
<seb128> Laney, that works for me, especially if we patch gtk2 we sort of enforce that as a gtk choice
<seb128> or we would just give others the flexibility to make gtk2/3 softwares inconsistant
<tedg> seb128, Looking at your comment: https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/indicator-power/ucc-only-in-unity/+merge/202559/comments/472287
<tedg> seb128, What do you think we should be checking?  I thought we only wanted u-c-c for Unity so that GNOME could be "vanilla"?
<mdeslaur> seb128: for some reason, I'm getting a race at boot with trusty where gnome-keyring doesn't end up as the ssh agent...have you seen that?
<mdeslaur> about half the time
<happyaron> Laney: I see, will check with our PM how to talk about it with them.
<Laney> mdeslaur: I think it races with the upstart job
<Laney> happyaron: cool, thanks
<happyaron> :)
<mdeslaur> Laney: hrm, ok, I'll file a bug. thanks
<seb128> mdeslaur, what Laney said, and yes sometime the agent is not working for me either (wrong env, because if I run gnome-keyring-daemon and export the env it prints things works)
<mdeslaur> seb128: I filed 1271591
<seb128> tedg, right, GNOME doesn't use indicators (there is no way to use them under gnome-shell and the UI wouldn't fit the shell anyway)
<tedg> seb128, So what's the issue of checking for the Unity desktop?
<seb128> tedg, GNOME is going to be vanilla by not using indicator and using g-c-c
<seb128> tedg, xfce use indicators, gnome-panel session use indicators
<tedg> I'm more worried about folks like Xubuntu
<tedg> Don't they want g-c-c ?
<seb128> tedg, did you see https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/indicator-power/xfce-control-center/+merge/202641
<seb128> tedg, I think those desktops want, in priority order, their-own-tool, u-c-c, g-c-c
<tedg> seb128, Oh, okay, I thought they'd want g-c-c before u-c-c.
<seb128> tedg, g-c-c is not going to include indicator settings, so better to call u-c-c which does
<seb128> tedg, I'm also unsure that stuff like CSD is going to work well on those desktops
<tedg> Seems weird that the behavior could change based on what is installed though.
<seb128> tedg, I think they are closer from Unity than from shell
<tedg> i.e. if you had Xubuntu and Ubuntu Desktop you'd get one, but not if you didn't.
<seb128> you mean?
<seb128> xfce would always have their own tool called
<seb128> Ubuntu Desktop installed or not
<tedg> I guess Xubuntu is a bad example as they have their own.  But just saying because we're checking for the existence of the utility, we could behave differently.
<tedg> Seems we should decide and error.
<seb128> I would be fine with that
<seb128> I don't care enough to spend time on it though
<seb128> if somebody files a bug or some other desktops have concerns they can file a bug/send a patch
<tedg> Is there any reason an indicator would want to call g-c-c?
<seb128> better than erroring out I guess?
<seb128> but yeah, at this point g-c-c seems a random choice
<seb128> we could as well call kdeconfig
<tedg> Yeah
<seb128> we should maybe just hide the entry if u-c-c is not installed
<seb128> though having the g-c-c case makes it easier for e.g Debian to keep packaging indicators
<seb128> or at least having them working as designed
<tedg> It also makes the migration story easier.
<seb128> tedg, I think we should claim the current code as good enough and not spend more effort on it until somebody comes with a valid concern/bug/reason to change
<tedg> So my thought is: keep the patches like they are today.  But when we get to a stable point we can start dropping g-c-c.
<seb128> +1
<tedg> K, will review as such.
<seb128> thanks
<xnox> seb128: my custom do_draw() is borked. All it does is request the current split between pack1 & pack2 of a Gtk.Paned widget and updates labels appropriately with the split.
<xnox> seb128: upon resizing, does Gtk.Paned emit any singnal that I can key on?
<seb128> xnox, do you have code to share/a small testcase showing what you do/the issue?
<xnox> seb128: yeah, one sec.
<xnox> seb128: awwwwww!
<seb128> xnox, works now or what?
<xnox> seb128: so my do_draw() method ( a derived / subclassed Gtk.Paned)
<xnox> seb128: did not have "Gtk.Paned.do_draw(self, cr)" as first thing
<xnox> seb128: so nothing was drawn!
<xnox> seb128: now it all works!
<seb128> great!
<xnox> seb128: do you know if I can increase the corner radius of the ShadowType.ETCHED_IN ?
<xnox> of a Gtk.Frame
<xnox> seb128: \o/ OMG, migrating away from HPaned to Paned, made that custom widget render in the new glade! #firstinhistory
<seb128> haha
<seb128> dunno for the corner
<seb128> but larsu might
<seb128> or Cimi
<Cimi> xnox, it's static IIRC
<xnox> Cimi: fair enough =) it looks miles better now, so it's all good.
<Cimi> xnox, because at that time there were child windows and we couldn't play much with those
<Laney> pix
<xnox> Laney: we are not past UIF yet, are we?! =)
<Laney> depends on whether you're going to give me chocolate / beer as a bribe :-)
<seb128> what do I need to do to get chocolate / beer as well? ;-)
<Laney> I'm after ui-toolkit in trusty with the listview emulator
<Laney> will share my chocolate with you if you do that :P
<seb128> hum
<seb128> not sure I'm that hungry in fact :p
<seb128> but it reminds me I wanted to test your autopilot fixes branch
 * seb128 goes to do that
<Laney> om nom nom
<seb128> ;-)
<xnox> Laney: sbuild-build-depends-ubiquity-dummy : Depends: gir1.2-webkit-3.0 but it is not going to be installed
<xnox> Laney: how can I build a ubiquity update?! =)
<Laney> there's skew atm
<seb128> you might want to delete the proposed version
<seb128> to unblock ubiquity
<Laney> do it
<seb128> where is my chocolate? ;-)
<Laney> xnox has it
<Laney> it's posh belgian stuff
<ogra_> i thought she is english
<xnox> Laney: i'm still pondering about going to Fosdem to replenish my backup stores.
<xnox> ogra_: posh - adj, not Posh - name.
<Laney> neat, see you there
<ogra_> :)
<Laney> everyone's going
<xnox> Laney: hm. I have a volleyball match on sunday =/
<xnox> Laney: yeah, FTBFS on i386 is not good =)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> trying to get a ppc fix before uploading
<Laney> speaking of which
<Laney> collect2: error: ld terminated with signal 9 [Killed]
<seb128> Laney, xnox: deleted from proposed, that should unblock other things until Laney uploads a version that builds
<Laney> ta
<xnox> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<Laney> aha, I think it got past the failing stage
<Laney> yup
<seb128> sil2100, hey, can you give me a landing slot for ubuntu-system-settings? (l10 on the CI train list)
<sil2100> seb128: sure! (I think ;p) Let me take a look, will be my first real time
<sil2100> seb128: hmmm
<sil2100> seb128: there seems to be a problem, as the previous request still didn't get cleaned up
<sil2100> seb128: landing from l7 is still in state 'Cleaning silo', and it's blocking further ubuntu-system-settings landings
<sil2100> didrocks: ^
<seb128> sil2100, try again, it just finished cleaning it ;-)
<sil2100> didrocks: how long does it usually take to clean up a silo ?
<sil2100> Ah!
<sil2100> Ok ;)
<sil2100> didrocks: nevermind!
<seb128> didrocks, sil2100: btw I saw it was still running, but that was making a good test of that scenario
<seb128> sil2100, http://162.213.34.102/job/landing-001-3-merge-clean/1/console
<sil2100> \o/
<seb128> sil2100,  seems like the ppa took ~10 min from the delete request to be empty
<sil2100> seb128: indeed - ok, assigning silo now
<seb128> sil2100, thanks
<sil2100> hmmm
<sil2100> didrocks, seb128: I'm trying to press the 'Submit' button to assign a silo, but it does not work sadly?
<didrocks> sil2100: hum
<didrocks> sil2100: the job or the spreadsheet?
<sil2100> didrocks: on the spreadsheet
<didrocks> have you set the silo naming?
<sil2100> didrocks: the jenkins job was ok, but now when I selected the silo it doesn't work
<sil2100> I set landing-001 there
<didrocks> which silo was assigned?
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> sil2100: worked here
<sil2100> didrocks: does it have some permissions on submit, or would the script not start even if I wouldn't have the permissions?
<didrocks> sil2100: not sure, we need to look together, you should have all needed permissions
<sil2100> didrocks: let's look at it tomorrow, not to waste your time anymore for today :)
<didrocks> yeah, finishing a hangout and done
<jasoncwarner> hey seb128 or laney (or anyone). I seem to have a broken package on upgrade. gyp? anyone know anything about that? seems to be broken for a few days now.
<seb128> not know no, which one?
<seb128> "gyp" is that the name?
<jasoncwarner> seb128: yeah.
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gyp/+bug/1246730 ?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1246730 in gyp (Ubuntu) "dependency_links.txt.dpkg-new': No such file or directory" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jasoncwarner> seb128: that's teh one
<seb128> hum
<seb128> that's a build tool from the chromium stack it seems, first time I read about it
<seb128> qengho, ^ do you know about that source or bug?
<qengho> Generate your Project.  Yes, I know of it.
<seb128> jasoncwarner, you are building your own chromium packages then? ;-)
<jasoncwarner> seb128: didn't think I was ;)
<jasoncwarner> seb128: though, I might have installed something along the way. perhaps I have a ppa (checking)
<seb128> jasoncwarner, you can probably safely uninstall that package then, still a bug that should be fixed though ... but an universe one
<qengho> jasoncwarner, seb128, I don't think we got it from chromium, though.  Even an old one.
<seb128> qengho, I'm just saying that because it has "maintainer: Debian Chromium Maintainers"
<jasoncwarner> ah, it seems it is probably nodejs
<jasoncwarner> when I go to uninstall it, all my node modules get uninstalled
<seb128> oh, ok
<qengho> seb128: I think GYP is one of those projects that was split off to be standalone, but few other projects took it up.
<seb128> seems so
<qengho> Nodejs isn't small, though.  That's nice.
<jasoncwarner> I removed nodejs for now. not like I have time to work on that project anyway atm ;)
<robert_ancell> tedg, are you OK with https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/indicator-power/ucc-only-in-unity/+merge/202559 being rejected? It means indicator-power runs u-c-c if it is installed, where the other indicators only do that if in Unity. I don't think it's a problem in practise but just inconsistent with the changes you requested
<robert_ancell> seb128, ^ if still online
<tedg> robert_ancell, Yeah, so seb128 and I had a conversation about it.  Long term we're just not going to call g-c-c at all.
<robert_ancell> yep
<tedg> robert_ancell, But for the migration and everything else, we're being simple.
<tedg> i.e. not worth another round of back-and-forth
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey
<robert_ancell> ack
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you look at the commit I pointed?
<robert_ancell> yes
<seb128> what's wrong with it?
<seb128> robert_ancell, what do you want changed compared to the code that got commited?
<robert_ancell> seb128, all the indicators have a g_strcmp0 (g_getenv ("XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP"), "Unity") == 0 (on tedgs request) except for indicator-power
<robert_ancell> but it's not that important
<robert_ancell> so running the indicators say from lxde will bring up g-c-c for everything except indicator-power which will bring up u-c-c
<seb128> robert_ancell, right, that's from the time where GNOME was gnome-panel and using indicators, I don't think that makes sense anymore with GNOME = gnome-shell and not using indicators
<robert_ancell> yeah, it all goes away if we don't support g-c-c anymore
<seb128> robert_ancell, I would argue that other indicators should favor u-c-c over g-c-c as well (that's basically what I did today for -power and why we landed that code)
<seb128> g-c-c doesn't have indicator options to start with
<robert_ancell> that was my original branches :)
<seb128> you were right then ;-)
<seb128> we just didn't have discussions about the topic before
<seb128> and reviews are probably not the best venue to decide on such changes
<robert_ancell> anyways, when do these new versions hit the archive?
<robert_ancell> tedg, you can treat utf-8 as ASCII. Since all multibyte characters have the first bit set to 1 you will never get a valid ascii character in a multibyte sequence
<robert_ancell> utf-8 is surprisingly clever
<seb128> robert_ancell, I'm going to do a landing ask tomorrow, I already talked to didrocks about it todauy
<tedg> Ha, I didn't realize.
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw, for some reason the unity/compiz keybinding are not showing in the keyboard section of u-c-c, do we need to make compiz install its .xml in a new location?
<seb128> e.g the hud key is not there
<seb128> but other sections are missing as well
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, I hadn't noticed that
<robert_ancell> is there a bug open?
<seb128> robert_ancell, no, I just noticed today, I can open one if you want
<robert_ancell> please do
<robert_ancell> yeah, looks like it needs to
<robert_ancell> /usr/share/gnome-control-center/keybindings - move/copy to /usr/share/unity-control-center/keybindings
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> robert_ancell, I don't know why you insist on migrating those locations ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1271710
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1271710 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "doesn't list compiz/unity keybindings" [Undecided,New]
<robert_ancell> seb128, because we're not g-c-c anymore and who knows what changes will come in new versions of g-c-c
<seb128> robert_ancell, we are going to need landing of compiz and unity to complete that migration then, let's see how many weeks that takes
<seb128> :/
<robert_ancell> we need to sort that out
<robert_ancell> our velocity has got even slower
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> well, the landing team is really focussed on touch
<robert_ancell> seb128, did you see I uploaded that nautilus patch
<seb128> yes
<seb128> thanks for that
<seb128> did you code review it or just went "oh, it builds, it seems to work, let's upload"?
<robert_ancell> I reviewed it, but not in depth. It seems independent enough that we can maintain it into newer versions
<seb128> I was sort of going to do that and figured out I would try to ping you in case you had the motivation to do a proper review ;-)
<seb128> we already received a bug report about it btw
<robert_ancell> it does logical stuff
<seb128> the guy who wrote the patch is going to look at it
<robert_ancell> yeah, he seems onto it
<seb128> Sweetshark, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/163120675/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-powerpc.libreoffice_1%3A4.2.0~rc2-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gzhttps://launchpadlibrarian.net/163120675/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-powerpc.libreoffice_1%3A4.2.0~rc2-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz :-(
<seb128> shrug, sorry for the double copy, firefox was hanging while loading the page and I though it didn't get the copy
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/163120675/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-powerpc.libreoffice_1%3A4.2.0~rc2-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gzhttps://launchpadlibrarian.net/163120675/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-powerpc.libreoffice_1%3A4.2.0~rc2-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/163120675/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-powerpc.libreoffice_1%3A4.2.0~rc2-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> (grrrr)
<seb128> robert_ancell, you are going to be in London, right?
<robert_ancell> seb128, yep
<seb128> great
<seb128> I hope we can finish those transitions there
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you need help from me before that?
<robert_ancell> seb128, just help to keep things moving
<robert_ancell> i.e. annoying people until they take the changes / get them into the archive :)
<robert_ancell> and finding any bugs
<seb128> right, I'm on that already
<seb128> how is u-s-s going?
<seb128> btw, are you bored/looking for things to do? ;-)
<robert_ancell> ha, I wish
<seb128> :-(
<robert_ancell> I'm leaving u-s-s until u-c-c is out of the way
<robert_ancell> Don't want to land both at once
<seb128> you are still fulltime on u-c-c?
 * seb128 has work for you :p
 * robert_ancell hides
<robert_ancell> doing lightdm stuff and general fixing
<robert_ancell> sure, propose it to me
<robert_ancell> I want to hear a great sell
<seb128> robert_ancell, joke aside I think most of our changes for the LTS are going to be done after u-c-c/u-s-d
<seb128> robert_ancell, it's an old sell, but I think you did some work on gnome-screensaver some cycles ago to give it an unity-greeter like UI (or at least a less-win-95-like-UI)
<seb128> do you still have that somewhere?
<robert_ancell> yeah, somewhere
<robert_ancell> I can do some work there
<robert_ancell> it will be hacky, but I guess it's better than nothing
<seb128> how much work would it be to bring it back? ;-)
<seb128> that would be nice
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> in fact I don't even care much if it's the same as the login screen (that would be nice though)
<robert_ancell> seb128, do you know if it needs to be conditional on running in Unity, i.e. is anyone else still using gnome-screensaver?
<seb128> but at least something which is not that grey rectangle
<seb128> I wouldn't bother
<robert_ancell> we'll see if anyone shouts
<seb128> gnome-shell doesn't use gnome-screensaver
<seb128> and xfce went for light-locker
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> if anyone complains we can rename "fork" gnome-screensaver as well :p
<seb128> that one would be an easy rename
<TheMuso> pitti: Fair enough, thanks again.
<seb128> shrug, why is dch setting my distro serie to "the"?!
<kenvandine> seb128, cool... "the"
<kenvandine> it starts with a T
<kenvandine> :-D
<Laney> The next release
<seb128> kenvandine, did you hack into my computer? ;-)
<kenvandine> yup :)
<seb128> damnit!
<Laney> panel still uses gnome-screensaver
<Laney> fallback
<seb128> Laney, what greeter do they use?
<Laney> and random people might, of course
<seb128> well
<seb128> the question is "would they be annoyed if the lock screen was looking unity-greeter like, rather than win95 like"
<seb128> ?
<Laney> I think it'd be good for it to look better
<Laney> but "nobody other than us uses this" isn't a good metric to make decisions on
<kenvandine> you know someone will complain
 * Laney wouldn't mind
<kenvandine> the only thing worse is xscreensave
<kenvandine> +r
<seb128> well, it's rather "is anyone attached to the current look"?
<seb128> I would think not
<seb128> but you never know
<kenvandine> fork it!
 * kenvandine ducks
<seb128> lol
<Laney> heh
<seb128> kenvandine, read the backlog, I suggested it ;o
<Laney> I'd change it and then see who complains
<seb128> right
<kenvandine> feeling a little punchy after a couple hours debugging the keyboard
<kenvandine> ha... you did :)
<seb128> that's what are going to do I think
<Laney> I doubt a fork is required as it'd probably be easy to have both looks if necessary
<seb128> well, fork might be better than a stack of if statements in the code
<Laney> shrug
<seb128> but let's see if anyone complains first
<seb128> well, first let's refresh the UI
<seb128> then let's see if anyone complains
<seb128> if they do, then let's decide on what to do ;-)
<seb128> soooo
<seb128> where is dch getting the current distro serie from?
<seb128> is anyone else getting "the" on "dch -r"?
<seb128> kenvandine, WHAT DID YOU DO
 * kenvandine tries
<Laney> there's a mode where it copies the previous one
<kenvandine> nope... i'm getting trusty
<seb128> I'm not using any mode
<seb128> or said differently, I've no custom config
<seb128> shrug
<Laney> well... is it getting it from the previous entry?
<seb128> I doubt it, just got that on 6 different sources
<Laney> otherwise I think it gets it from distro-info
<Laney> ubuntu-distro-info --devel --codename
<seb128> $ distro-info --devel --codename
<seb128> trusty
<Laney> outta ideas
<seb128> shrug
<Laney> now you get to use the source :P
<seb128> so in fact my issue is
<seb128> $ dch -i "Rebuild for the new poppler soname"
<seb128> $ dch -r
<seb128> it has to do with the dch -i message
<seb128> wth?
<seb128> if I "dch -i "Rebuild"" it works
<Laney> oh yeah, I see that
<Laney> that's funny
<Laney> I always do dch -D trusty -r "" so I'd never see that
<seb128> I usually do it in those steps for the vcs commits
<seb128> you get the commit with the change
<seb128> then the release one
<seb128> but wth is wrong with that changelog entry?
<Laney> bug
<Laney> debug it!
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> that doesn't seem like the sort of bug I'm wanting to debug
<seb128> that seems like a bug infinity would enjoy :p
<seb128> or slangasek
<seb128> ok, let me open a bug and assign it to kenvandine
<seb128> he mentioned earlier that he has something to do with that issue
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, debugging dch should be good for you, that's going to be a change of all the touch work
<seb128> of->from
<Sweetshark> seb128: *urgh*
<seb128> Sweetshark, indeed... :/
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, did you see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1197854 ?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1197854 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "NetworkManager crashed with SIGABRT in g_assertion_message()" [High,Confirmed]
<cyphermox> I did
<seb128> ok, you never commented/acted on it, so I'm checking
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> I think it's already been applied though
<seb128> it seems a simple commit, can we get it in trusty?
<cyphermox> yeah
<seb128> thanks
<cyphermox> we'll get it via 0.9.8.8 on friday though
<cyphermox> I'm updating NM and MM
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> (you are right, looking to the current source it seems the source has it)
<Sweetshark> seb128: so the good thing is that it is a casting error in a function called 'convertLittleEndian', so a/ it will likely only fail on PPC and b/ its at least a decent hint of what is going wrong (unlike e.g. stumbling over itself somehow) ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, "good" I guess, still not debugging/work/another upload :/
<Sweetshark> seb128: yup
<seb128> not->need
<Sweetshark> seb128: git blame suggests I might was just out at a bar with the guy who broke it ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, well, the good news is that the l10n package built :-)
<seb128> haha
<seb128> you just missed an opportunity to bribe him in fixing it then!
<seb128> on that note, enough for today, night everyone
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-01-23
<pitti> Good morning
<darkxst> hey pitti
<pitti> hey darkxst, how are you? (haven't forgotten your testimonial, will get to it ASAP)
<darkxst> pitti, I'm good and you?
<darkxst> thanks btw ;)
<pitti> quite fine, thanks!
<darkxst> fwiw autopilot fails miserably at introspection a gnome-shell session
<darkxst> I suppose it needs to learn about ST and Clutter widgets?
<darkxst> hey seb128
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> darkxst, hey
<darkxst> seb128, not to bug you or anything but can you add something to my application, meeting is on monday!
<seb128> sure can, I'm going to do that today
<darkxst> thanks!
<Sweetshark> moin all!
<seb128> hey Sweetshark
<Sweetshark> seb128: Found two patches on upstream master that should fix the issue. I did not find a ppc porterbox anymore on the wiki -- do we still have one?
<seb128> not that I know
<Sweetshark> seb128: so we are down to just trying another upload with the patch?
<seb128> Sweetshark, I guess so, though I've a feeling Laney is not going to like that one ;-)
<seb128> let's just upload before he gets on IRC
<Sweetshark> seb128: k ;)
<Laney> morning
<Laney> also WHAT
<Laney> :P
<Laney> I've been abusing partch.debian.org
<Laney> you might have a case for asking for a native PPA though
<seb128> Laney, good morning!
<seb128> Laney, Sweetshark asked for native PPA in the past for libreoffice (especially to workaround the disk space limitation of the virtual ones) but they have never been wanting to allocate those resources to libreoffic
<Laney> I was thinking for distro uploads only
<Laney> like ideally you'd copy with binaries out of it
<Laney> but shrug
<seb128> I guess that's not much different from direct archive upload if all the preparation work is done in a virtual one
<Laney> ho hum
<Laney> we do need a porter machine really
<seb128> indeed
<Laney> tell seÃ±or warner
<seb128> right
 * seb128 adds to the list of requests
<seb128> sil2100, bregma: is anyone working on having an unity7 landing in trusty?
<Sweetshark> seb128: backported patches send to review upstream, also added in the source package, which is building right now.
<seb128> Sweetshark, great, thanks
<Sweetshark> seb128: dont tell Laney ;)
<seb128> yeah, shusssh
<Laney> you'll have to just try it
<Laney> unless infinity wants to donate the use of his private machine to test build libreoffice :-)
<Laney> argh
<seb128> larsu, could you review https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/indicator-keyboard/fix-tests-gdk-display-error/+merge/202152 ? (that should fix the current fail to build in trusty)
<larsu> seb128: sure
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<Laney> got that nouveau lockup again
<larsu> woah, why does it make all those timeouts loop?
 * larsu hates unrelated commits in the same MR
<seb128> Laney, btw did you see my autopilot errors with your branch?
<Laney> saw the comment
<Laney> don't get those errors
<seb128> hum, k, I guess it's up to me to debug it then :/
<Laney> can you isolate one test that causes it?
<mhr3> yey, vala code! :)
<mhr3> what a non-valaish way to do fixtures :P
<larsu> seb128: why was this necessary? Is some test unsetting DISPLAY?
<seb128> larsu, not sure, but you can try to build the package on trusty without that commit
<seb128> larsu, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/162075569/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-i386.indicator-keyboard_0.0.0%2B14.04.20131125-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> larsu, well, not hurry to land that, let's wait for attente to be online if you have questions
<mhr3> larsu, fixtures the vala-way - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/libunity/trunk/view/head:/test/vala/test-scope-base.vala :)
<larsu> seb128: the code looks fine to me, but I'd rather talk to him about the reasoning. If you're fine waiting a couple of hours, I'd prefer that
<larsu> mhr3: right, this is what attente is doing as well, no?
<larsu> oh!
<seb128> larsu, sure, I pinged for review because it was in the queue for a week and I was unsure if you or charles noticed it
<mhr3> larsu, he does pointers and stuff.. eek :P
<larsu> mhr3: ya, just realized. I'll point him to that, thanks :)
<larsu> seb128: I didn't, thanks
<seb128> yw ;-)
<Laney> won't that fix only work if you have a DISPLAY already?
<larsu> Laney: yeah but I think the test will fail anyway if there's no DISPLAY
<Laney> yeah it does make it pass
<Sweetshark> seb128: uploaded -0ubuntu2 to http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/trusty/
<Sweetshark> seb128: I also uploaded a new -l10n version, just to be safe.
<seb128> Laney, nice, the Unity API team is adding a connectivity API (the work is 80% done from what they say)
<Laney> what's that for?
<seb128> Laney, that should provide the "can I use internet" you asked about previous cycle
<seb128> Laney, https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1BTxpGvhe3pvbwN8vVbu8tQUVV-woHEA6pYo_ERkTP9U/edit
<Laney> decent
<Sweetshark> seb128: In theory the older -l10n version should work too. But as you know: In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, what are you concerned about? installability issues?
<seb128> Sweetshark, it seems like now would be a good moment to check if a version mismatch works?
<Sweetshark> seb128: I dont trust anything that I didnt test explicitly. ;)
<Sweetshark> seb128: yeah, lets test it.
<Sweetshark> seb128: FWIW, ricotz already did a non-rebuild pocket copy of -l10n from trusty to saucy. So if that work with the rebuild saucy build, it is giving some hope to not be totally pessimistic about it ;)
<Sweetshark> s/work/works/
<Sweetshark> (and it seems to work: no complaints so far from any saucy users)
<seb128> good
<Sweetshark> seb128: hold on!
<Sweetshark> seb128: lemme check something.
<Sweetshark> seb128: ok, go.
 * Laney sneaks wk in there
<Sweetshark> (It seemed the patch was not applied, but that was an old jenkins log) ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok
<seb128> Sweetshark, uploaded
<Laney> aww, I didn't get sagari
<seb128> oh, Laney uploaded webkit as well
<seb128> buildd DoS
<Laney> lo didn't either
<Laney> fail
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> buh
<Laney> select_many(toolkit_emulators.Base) doesn't work
<Sweetshark> seb128: thanks
<Sweetshark> seb128: /me sternly watches ppc build.
 * Laney too ...
<Sweetshark> oh, my blog might break its all time viewcount record today ...
<Laney> aha
<Laney> AHA!
<Sweetshark> Laney: !?!
<Laney> a minor victory over autopilot
<seb128> Laney, did you figure out the error I'm getting? ;-)
<Sweetshark> Laney: watch your flank, its already plotting its revenge!
<Laney> hah, no
<Laney> I got the list of installed click packages
<Laney> well, I got the number '4' which is the number of installed click packages, so hopefully the list contains the right things ...
<Laney> looks like it
 * Laney employs the suggested sorting hack
<seb128> Laney, btw, want some non-autopilot-uss-hacking?
<Laney> maaaaaaaaaaybe
<seb128> Laney, powerd got updated, need to change the power panel to use dbus rather than writes to /sys
<seb128> Laney, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/powerd/trunk/revision/107/data/com.canonical.powerd.xml
<seb128> Laney, is that something you would be interested to do?
<Laney> I'm not sure where you mean
<Laney> don't we just poke the indicator?
<seb128> right, because we didn't want to reimplement the "write to /sys"
<seb128> do you think we should keep using the indicator, or just do the dbus call directly now that we have those?
<Laney> sharing backends always seemed desirable to me
<seb128> ok, wfm
<seb128> Laney, in fact I think what Bill was mostly interested in was to get the option to enable/disable the auto level
<seb128> Laney, that's in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brightness#Phone
<seb128> Laney, want to have a look to add that panel? the slider should be just copying power, the checkbox is that new dbus call
<Laney> okay, should be easy
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<davmor2> Hey guys.  The location indicator if you select one of the 2 options the indicator closes is this the expected behaviour?
<seb128> bah
<seb128> Laney, I can't reproduce the autopilot error from yesterday today, neither with a stock build nor with my hacked geometry (reduced height value)
<seb128> the test_storage tests are unhappy with a height: 40 though
<seb128> but that's not a blocker for that merge
 * seb128 mark the mp back to approved
<Laney> O RLY
<Laney> I only made it 45... could that really make a difference?
<seb128> Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6802738/
<seb128> Laney, same issue with 45
<seb128> Laney, seems a flickering issue
<seb128> the drag moves the pointer over the "license:" label
<seb128> sorry "Legal"
<seb128> (they translated to License in french)
<Laney> so unreliable
<Laney> i've not seen that happen
<Laney> :/
<Laney> exciting
<Laney> was that a CI train release?
<seb128> Laney, yes, like the few previous ones ;-)
<seb128> Laney, was there anything weird/different?
<Laney> didn't notice other ones
<Laney> I just saw that it included some random merge and not other things
<Laney> now I see them
<Laney> cool
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> Laney, so, if those tests are working for you and not for me, I think it's because our pointer setting are differently (random guess)
<mlankhorst> https://mblankhorst.nl/etc/supertuxkart.svg.gz muahahaha (perf timechart recording gpu channels, 60 mb svg, will kill your system) :P
<seb128> Laney, e.g the same action on the pointer leads to different amonth of flickering/scrolling
<Laney> I guess
<seb128> what did you do the main screen which is different from what you do to the about/license one?
<seb128> because it doesn't have that issue to reach "about" on the mainscreen
<Laney> we launch straight to the about panel
<attente> mhr3, larsu, hey
<larsu> attente: morning
<attente> larsu, mhr3, i just caught up on the conversation
<attente> mhr3, thanks for pointing me to that file!
 * larsu just wants to know why DISPLAY must be re-set
<larsu> it'd be cool if you mentioned that in the commit msg
<attente> larsu, sure
<attente> larsu, it gets cleared in g_test_dbus_up()
<larsu> really? Why?
<attente> i'm seeing this in the docs:
<attente> Unset DISPLAY and DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS env variables to ensure the test won't use user's session bus.
<attente> This is useful for unit tests that want to verify behaviour when no session bus is running. It is not necessary to call this if unit test already calls g_test_dbus_up() before acquiring the session bus.
<mhr3> attente, here's the actual magic http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/libunity/trunk/view/head:/test/vala/common.vala
<larsu> attente: hm, makes sense. thanks
<attente> mhr3, ah, looks useful, thanks
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> can somebody take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/907640 please?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 907640 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "alt-backtick doesn't work properly" [Low,Confirmed]
<dholbach> cyphermox, do you have an opinion on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1271567?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1271567 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Include upstream patch for the ifupdown plugin to honor the source stanza" [Undecided,New]
<cyphermox> dholbach: ohh, shiny
<cyphermox> dholbach: yes, I'm about to upload a new NM, I'll include that
<davmor2> tseliot: hey dude any news on the optimus driver on 3.13 yet?
 * dholbach hugs cyphermox
<tseliot> davmor2: not yet, I'm still waiting for news from nvidia...
<davmor2> tseliot: no worries dude :)
<seb128> kenvandine, Laney, tedg, attente: settings hangout?
<seb128> charles, ^
<Laney> coming
<Laney> Wellark: ^!
<seb128> Laney, he's there already
<seb128> Laney, as is mpt
<kenvandine> seb128, i don't really have anything to add, let me know if you need me
<Laney> ooh fancy
<kenvandine> tedg, you're going to hate me... i've bee rethinking how the hub launches apps... i think i need to use url-dispatcher
<seb128> kenvandine, I wanted to ask you some details about what is missing in the background, I'm not sure I grasp it (it seems to be pretty complete to me with the backgrounds grid etc)
<kenvandine> but i probably still need to use that new api i added to ual to determine if it is already running
<kenvandine> seb128, how about you and i chat 1:1 after the meeting?
<kenvandine> we can even do a hangout :)
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, wfm
<Laney> he's naked
<kenvandine> haha
<seb128> hehe
<Laney> you can tell by this evasion
<kenvandine> you wish :)
<Laney> phwoar
<tedg> kenvandine, Hmm, at least you gave me permission to hate you :-)
<kenvandine> tedg, you always have permission to hate me ;)
<tedg> seb128, I don't have any settings stuff, do you want me there?
<seb128> tedg, no need no
<kenvandine> tedg, i realized we had no way to handle an app that might provide more than one handler of the same type
<tedg> kenvandine, Do you need to talk to me about any of that, or is there enough there for you now?
<kenvandine> like system-settings background and sounds plugins could both implement an import handler
<tedg> Yeah, you'll have to do that.  But how does URL dispatcher help?
<kenvandine> so i think i need to register settings:///background and settings:///sound as separate handlers
<kenvandine> and other apps that need to do something similar could implement a parser for url args
<kenvandine> like appid:///someid/app/1.0/foobar
<kenvandine> tedg, does that make sense?
<tedg> kenvandine, I was going to use the fourth item for FD.o actions.
<tedg> Though not sure that'll make 14.04.
<kenvandine> will there be an API for parsing that stuff?
 * tedg had hoped, but is too behind at this point.
<tedg> kenvandine, No API needed, people just define the actions in their desktop file, so it turns into an Exec line of their choosing.
<kenvandine> it would make sense to have an api for that, so you can reliable grab args
<kenvandine> which the args could be the last position
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine> so that would be exactly what i need :)
 * tedg hates kenvandine
<tedg> :-)
<kenvandine> system-settings already handles this since it has it's own handler, settings:/// registered
<tedg> Uhm, so yeah.  It's just a mater of software....
<kenvandine> but thinking about potential 3rd party apps that want to do something similar
<kenvandine> actions would work though
<tedg> For custom URLs I think they'll have to parse them themselves.
<kenvandine> we can get those from inside qml right?
<tedg> I think that's a different use-case
<kenvandine> with the ActionManager
<tedg> I'm not sure how it's done, but yes.
<tedg> You also get notified on second activation as we send them via dbus.
<kenvandine> so for those apps it could be handled that way
<kenvandine> well, remember they will be part of a trusted session embedded with another app
 * kenvandine really fears how that might behave in the wild
<tedg> I'm not quite understanding that.  The GL contexts will be embedded, but the process would be in it's own confinement, right?
<kenvandine> with the trusted session, it will always start a new instance tied to that trusted session
<kenvandine> same confinement rules
<kenvandine> but it'll appear as a single app with whatever it is embedded in
<kenvandine> my fear is app developers that might do things that aren't multiple instance friendly
<tedg> Sure, but most won't be providing content-hub sources.  That's an advanced app.
<kenvandine> i'm thinking about things that might do things like locking a db, etc
<tedg> But, how are you working around Upstart single instancing stuff?
<kenvandine> i'm not... tvoss and the mir folks are :)
<tedg> In theory there could be two instances of the same app in that case.
<tedg> Wondering if he's just planning to kill the other instance.
<kenvandine> not kill
<tedg> "shutdown"
<kenvandine> but it will be suspended... and potentially killed later
<kenvandine> based on app lifecycle
<kenvandine> but you could switch between them and resume it
<tedg> You can call it "put out to pasture" if you like.  :-)
<kenvandine> anyway, they said they'll handle it :)
<tedg> Hmm, curious.  #ubuntu-touch.
<seb128> Laney, going to test on the device in a bit, I didn't touch my phone for some days and it's flat again, so recharging a bit before testing
<Laney> righto
<Laney> mpt: do you have a mockup of the new header design?
<seb128> Sweetshark, shrug
<mpt> Laney, no.
<Laney> okay
<seb128> Sweetshark, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/163197609/upload_5491603_log.txt
<rvr> Hmm
<Laney> that log could be more useful
<seb128> Laney, indeed :/
<Laney> it often means you tried to upload binaries which exist at a newer version already
<seb128> which is not the case here
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:4.2.0~rc2-0ubuntu2
<Laney> rvr: You gave your presence away
<Laney> rvr: Off the top of your head, can you tell me how to select something to click on it if I know its display text?
<rvr> Laney: Sometime it happens to me that I discover what's the problem just when I was about to ask about it :D
<Laney> ;)
<Laney> I want to click one of the options in an ItemSelector
<Laney> item_selector.select_single(text="blah") doesn't work - StateNotFound
<rvr> Laney: Use the introspector
<Laney> it's there
<rvr> It gives you the tree and clues about how to get where you want
<rvr> Tip: if you cannot find it using objectName, then you are doing it wrong ;)
<Laney> umm
<Laney> It's ItemSelector { model: ["option A", "option B"] }
<seb128> Laney, did you copy that scroll_to_and_click() from somewhere?
<Laney> no
<Laney> the logic came from uss-online-accounts
<seb128> autopilot doesn't provide by itself some "scroll to widget and click" feature?
<Laney> it doesn't
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> that's one of the main sources of annoyance
<seb128> Laney, so my license issue it's not the flickering, so I guess something is wrong is that function of yours
 * seb128 tries to understand what that is doing
<Laney> scroll until the thing you want is on the screen, and then click it
<rvr> self.pointer.click_object(the_object)
<seb128> rvr, right, that works when the object you want to click is on screen
<seb128> rvr, if it's down a column and you need to scroll, it fails
<rvr> Ah, yeah, the scroll problem
<seb128> is anyone working on providing a standard solution to that problem?
<Laney> I think the emulators will implement it for each thing
<Sweetshark> seb128: hmmm, I recently updated to a new gpg-key maybe its that? launchpad seems to know the key though ....
<Laney> if I understand right then ListView already works
<seb128> Sweetshark, no, launchpad glitch (read #ubuntu-devel backlog)
<seb128> Sweetshark, I retried the build
<Laney> okay, I'm doing alpha 2 publishing for 30 minutes or so
<Sweetshark> seb128: ah, good it hit only a small build and not something like LibreOffice that would squatter on an arm builder for another day.
<seb128> Sweetshark, it's only i386 which failed to upload, so that's ok ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: k ;)
<seb128> Laney, shrug
<seb128>             # avoid a flick
<seb128>             sleep(0.2)
<seb128> Laney, if I use 0.5 there it works fine
<seb128> or 0.3
<Laney> hmm
<seb128> yeah for random sleep calls as solution :p
<Laney> there might be a property
<Laney> while (flicking): sleep(0.1) or something
<Laney> while (moving)
<Laney> I dunno :(
<seb128> Laney, ah, you did it differently from u-s-s-online-account
<seb128> Laney, they do "press, move, wait, release" to release on a stopped movement to avoid the inertia/flickering
<Laney> bugs meant I couldn't do that
<seb128> Laney, you do "drag; sleep"
<Laney> the pointer is not pressed thing I was going on about
<seb128> on the device I guess?
<Laney> yup
<Laney> look a bit up in uss-oa
<seb128> kenvandine, are u-s-s-online-account autopilot tests working on the device?
<Laney> that code doesn't run on device
<seb128> oh, right
<kenvandine> last i heard it didn't
<seb128> Laney, ok, feels like it's as good we can get on a flacky framework ...
<Laney> shall I make it 0.5?
<Laney> having them flip flop will be really annoying
<seb128> Laney, if you make it >= 0.3 it works here
<Laney> safety margin ...
<seb128> so, yeah, increasing the value makes sense
<seb128> 0.5 wfm
<Laney> ok
<seb128> can you do that in the mp I already approved?
<Laney> will do
<seb128> I'm going to reapprove/queue it in CI train for landing
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> ok, phone charged a bit, let me try things there
<Laney> could we get someone to test run it in the ci infrastructure?
<Laney> although last time we did that it came out as passing ...
<seb128> sil2100, didrocks, kenvandine: ^?
<dholbach> seb128, do you think somebody can take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/907640?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 907640 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "alt-backtick doesn't work properly" [Low,Confirmed]
<sil2100> Laney, seb128: what CI infra do you mean and for what functionality?
<Laney> run lp:~laney/ubuntu-system-settings/ap-fixes
<Laney> to see if it works
<Laney> autopilot
<Laney> dholbach: I don't understand it completely but it seems plausible to me
<Laney> feel free to sponsor if you want
<seb128> dholbach, dunno, don't ask me, I never touched unity2d, that's a question for sil2100 or didrocks
<Laney> it's metacity
<seb128> right, same difference
<seb128> I never touched wms
<dholbach> seb128, as long as lamont doesn't complain about focus of terminals he's typing in, you should be fine, right? :-)
<Laney> interesting
<seb128> dholbach, lol
<Laney> metacity is still on the desktop image
<seb128> the lib is used by the compiz decorator
<seb128> is ubiquity still using it, or did they finally move to compiz?
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.trusty/rdepends/metacity/metacity
<xnox> seb128: we've reverted from compiz back to metacity
<seb128> xnox, k, so you are the maintainer for it? good, dholbach has a patch for you
<Laney> thursday trolling, it's a new thing
<Laney> DON'T BITE!
<xnox> seb128: also unity7 depends on compiz which depends on the metacity decorators =)
<dholbach> maybe have a look at 1263756 too? ;-)
<xnox> seb128: if it's about decorators -> I don't care, if it doesn't affect ubiquity -> I don't care +))))))
<seb128> xnox, they are fixing that apparently, there is a branch from Trevinho up moving decoration in unity proper and disabling the decor plugin from compiz
<xnox> seb128: excellent =)
<Trevinho> yeah, no more metacity dependency anywhere
<xnox> seb128: then i'll switch to something else Xvfb? =)
 * xnox things it would be the most useful way to run installer
<seb128> Trevinho, btw, those changes are not small, isn't that risky for a lts cycle?
<xnox> seb128: better that, then have constantly crashing decorators process which is not upstart managed / respawned (last time i've checked)
<seb128> Laney, hum, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6803664/
<seb128> Laney, 1 error running u-s-s tests on the device
<Trevinho> seb128: well, it works better than old one... THe code is quite simple, and logic is based on the old one... So I've not experienced any regression so far
<Laney> oh noes
<seb128> Trevinho, ok, good ;-)
<Trevinho> So, let's try to get that in :P
<seb128> Trevinho, I'm not going to complain about less old gtk code and deprecated depends
<Trevinho> seb128: it also would allow to grow things with higher dpi screens, or bigger text
<xnox> dholbach: seb128: that patch makes no sense to go into trusty =)
<xnox> dholbach: seb128: that patch is needed for unity-2d, of which last one was in precise.
<dholbach> ok
<seb128> Laney, Ran 39 tests in 212.210s
<seb128> Laney, on another test
<seb128> Laney, so maybe I got unlucky on first try
<Laney> that makes me worried
<seb128> yeah, me neither, I don't like flakyness
<seb128> I'm doing another run
<seb128> Laney, shrug, got 3 of those this time, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6803705/
<Laney> man, what is up with your device!
<Laney> I ran it like 1000 times
<seb128> but I wonder if I didn't unlock the screen a bit late on that run
<seb128> that sleep timout is too low
 * seb128 does another run
<Laney> I pushed the timeout
<Laney> if you want to pull that
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> mterry, hey
<mterry> seb128, what's up?
<seb128> mterry, deja-dup not showing in g-c-c is because of
<seb128> -OnlyShowIn=@CCPANEL_SHOWIN@
<seb128> +OnlyShowIn=GNOME;
<seb128> mterry, not sure that desktop restriction makes sense?
<mterry> seb128, I tested that!
<seb128> mterry, under GNOME?
<seb128> mterry, we still run g-c-c under Unity
<mterry> seb128, it seemed to work when I launched g-c-c in Unity
<seb128> weird
<seb128> it doesn't for me and others
<seb128> adding Unity in this only show in fixes it
<mterry> seb128, I had assumed g-c-c manually specified GNOME for it's desktop searcher
<mterry> seb128, OK.  Well, you are right, that it could be GNOME;Unity; just as well
<seb128> mterry, that would be nice ;-)
<mterry> seb128, when is transition actually going to happen?
<seb128> mterry, next week or so, I've filed a landing ask for indicators
<seb128> mterry, once that happens we should be close from readu
<seb128> ready
<seb128> Laney,
<seb128> Ran 39 tests in 210.858s
<seb128> OK
<mterry> seb128, pfft, well people can wait  :)
<Laney> neat
<seb128> Laney, I think the toolbar issue on previous run was because the screen was still locked in the first tests
<seb128> mterry, ;-)
<Laney> yeah that breaks manyt hings
<seb128> Laney, that doesn't explain the search error on the first run though
<seb128> but at least it doesn't seem frequent
<Laney> that one shouldn't be affected by scrolling
<seb128> no, I don't know what happened
<seb128> I tried running a few times that specific test and no error
<seb128> xnox, btw, you top e.u.c on the daily view with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1267105
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1267105 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "/usr/lib/ubiquity/bin/ubiquity:11:GtkNode::MatchStringProperty:xpathselect::XPathQueryPart::Matches:SelectNodes:GetNodesThatMatchQuery:Introspect" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> (yeah, autopilot)
<xnox> seb128: \o/ nice
<xnox> seb128: i think that's a known bug in autopilot or some such =)
<xnox> seb128: need to de-dupe that one to the master bug about it.
<seb128> Laney, ok, 5 runs later, seems are solid, I'm stopping there, let's see how it behaves over time once it's integrated in the CI
<seb128> xnox, that would be nice
<Laney> okay, thanks for testing
<seb128> yw, thanks for the fixes!
 * Laney gets ready for the nagging when they flake out
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-01-24
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: ping?
<robert_ancell> hello
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Hi!
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: How do we get the g-s startup dialog translated?
<robert_ancell> g-s?
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: guest session
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Ubuntu patch?
<robert_ancell> It has to be marked for translation in the debian/ directory some how, but I don't know the correct way of doing it
<robert_ancell> or maybe a patch?
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Yeah, I too thought of a patch.
<robert_ancell> autotools fails if we refer to  a file in debian/
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: But I'm not sure either of how all that stuff works.
<GunnarHj> I see.
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: I can ask for advice here later today.
<robert_ancell> cool, please do
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Why are the guest session files in debian, btw? Is guest session a pure Ubuntu thing?
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, a lot of the guest session stuff is very Ubuntu specific. It's one reason why I want to split it all out into a separate package. Then that package can contain all this code
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Ok, room for getting the things in order... ;-)
<pitti> Good morning
<darkxst> hi pitti
<larsu> good morning!
<didrocks> hey larsu!
<Laney> hey
<seb128> Laney, hey
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<seb128> happy friday
<Laney> hey seb128, happy friday indeed
<chrisccoulson> hello!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, nice from you to say hi there ;-) how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not bad thanks. and you?
<seb128> I'm good, thanks
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webkitgtk/2.3.4-1ubuntu2 exciting
<seb128> nice
<seb128> libreoffice built as well
<Laney> oh finally I was allowed to report the mediascanner crash
 * pitti waves hello to Laney, seb128, and chrisccoulson; how are things in desktop land?
<seb128> pitti, hey! quite good, thanks! how are things in qa this week? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, I'm ok (although not really in desktop land) ;)
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<pitti> seb128: quite nice; I got some new toys to play with (four ARM nodes in a Calxeda box), and do preps for running autopkgtests on them
<pitti> unlike the pandas back then, these nodes are a real pleasure
<pitti> chrisccoulson: quite fine, thanks!
<Laney> yay
<Laney> pretty good thanks pitti!
<Laney> except for my adventures in autopilot land ^o)
<pitti> Laney: heh
<pitti> the flight business isn't for everyone :-P
<pitti> more seriously; I didn't follow the threads that closely, did you figure it out at last?
<Laney> I got some replies with things to try
<darkxst> seb128, hi, lp:~darkxst/ubuntu/trusty/nautilus/310b fixes buttons and headerbar corners
<darkxst> but there is one last issue with the pathbar button having square edges on the left side sometimes
<seb128> darkxst, hey, thanks, I'm going to review it (comment on your wiki as well)
<darkxst> seb128, somehow the branch in the MP got messed up
<seb128> oh?
<darkxst> I don't know why it has conflicts in the upstream code
<darkxst> I can close it and relink one with the above branch
<darkxst> oh, needs to rebased against the latest nautilus actually
<darkxst> seb128, ok just relinked a rebased branch in the MP
<Sweetshark> oh, we have pitti as guest in -desktop?
 * Sweetshark brings tea and cookies.
<seb128> darkxst,
<pitti> Sweetshark: I've never stopped hanging out here :)
<seb128> 138	+- action = gtk_action_group_get_action (action_group, name);
<seb128> 139	++ action = gtk_action_group_get_action (action_group, name);
<seb128> darkxst, that space change seems an error?
<pitti> Sweetshark: mmmmm cookies!
<seb128> Sweetshark, he's a permanent special guest!
<Sweetshark> seb128: /me is still a bit dizzy.
<seb128> Sweetshark, too much drinking? ;-)
<Sweetshark> I watched and babysitted the ppc build finish yesterday. Could sleep before seeing that.
<seb128> oh, ok
<Sweetshark> s/Could/Couldnt/
<seb128> I need to binnew it now
<darkxst> seb128, gah that code there has real tabs ;(
<darkxst> anyway fixed
<seb128> thanks
<darkxst> pitti, can you get to my testimonial today? ;)
<pitti> darkxst: yes, I will; sorry for the delay
<pitti> seb128: do you know where in control-center the unity configuration hides?
<pitti> not too long ago there was an appearance & behaviour or somethign such
<pitti> it's gone
<pitti> it seems some upgrade reset my changed key for the HUD
<Laney> Keyboard â Shortcuts â Launchers â "Key to show the HUD" here
<Laney> pitti: ^
<seb128> pitti, if you have unity-control-center installed you need to run gnome-control-center.real
<seb128> pitti, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1271710
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1271710 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "doesn't list compiz/unity keybindings" [Undecided,New]
<pitti> Laney: thanks, that worked; no idea what reset it
<Laney> there were some uploads ...
<seb128> uploads don't reset user settings though
<pitti> seb128: I don't; but I did test robert's PPA once
<Laney> nothing should
<pitti> I have gnome-control-center installed, and not unity-control-center; should I?
<seb128> right, that's rather a bug somewhere than an update
<seb128> pitti, no, I though you might, we are still working on the transition
<Laney> yes
<pitti> yeah, I figure somethign weird with jhbuild or what not; let's ignore that one
<pitti> seb128: ok, so it's probably due to the PPA testing; if you still have it, I'm fine; it's time for a reinstall soon :)
<pitti> this box is too whacked by now
<Sweetshark> seb128: hmmm, I dont find a libreoffice upgrade in trusty-proposed. Am I missing something obvious?
<seb128> Sweetshark, yes, binNEW
<seb128> Sweetshark, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=
<seb128> Sweetshark, I'm having a look to those now
<Sweetshark> seb128: k, thx
<seb128> Sweetshark, libreoffice-sdbc-firebird_4.2.0~rc2-0ubuntu1_i386.deb has no "useful" file it seems?
<seb128> Sweetshark, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6807844/
<seb128> Sweetshark, is that normal?
<Sweetshark> seb128: meh.
<seb128> Sweetshark, NEWed anyway, but that might be a bug
<Sweetshark> seb128: libreoffice-sdbc-firebird would be a new package. But I disabled building firebird-sdbc as firebird is in universe and not in the best state as of now. So there shouldnt have been a package at all ideally ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, I see, yeah, maybe commenting in debian/control would make sense
<Sweetshark> seb128: nah, libreoffice is generating ./debian/control -- so properly, it shouldnt have that package at all.
<Sweetshark> seb128: I will fix that, would that block uploading to trusty. Having an empty stale package of something we dont know we could deploy would be meh.
<seb128> Sweetshark, no, it's not a blocker, as said "NEWed anyway, but that might be a bug"
<seb128> Sweetshark, if you stop building the binary in a next upload it's going to be cleaned just fine, no worry
<Sweetshark> seb128: k, excellent.
<Sweetshark> real man build libreoffice with pbuilder --build --twice.
<seb128> Sweetshark, well done, I just enabled trusty-proposed to test libreoffice, update went fine, I've 4.2 running, working fine (from what I tested) and in french ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: \o/
<seb128> Sweetshark, the libreoffice "start" screen (e.g the one letting you pick a recent document or writer/calc/...) is not translated though, is that a bug or just french translators slacking?
<Sweetshark> seb128: ... aaaand building tarballs for rc3 right now.
<Sweetshark> seb128: that might be just localizers slacking as the start screen was still under heavy development late. I will look into it before the next upload though.
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<seb128> Sweetshark, good job in any case, that split went smoothly it seems ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: which ironically helps us most for the PPAs -- but then again: more/better testing in PPAs => better quality in the archive.
<seb128> right
<seb128> it also means lower build time
<Sweetshark> (and doing things 'slightly different' in PPAs is a sure way into desolation ;) )
<Sweetshark> seb128: yep. and security updates without l10n rebuilds.
<seb128> Sweetshark, the fileselector has a bug, the "> File type" at the bottom of the open dialog lost its label
<seb128> Sweetshark, hum, can't reproduce now, weird
<Sweetshark> seb128: have it installed from proposed here now too. Open dialog looks fine here.
<seb128> Sweetshark, yeah, I had the issue once (or I wonder now if I was just not awake and overlooked the label)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Hi Sebastien!
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey
<GunnarHj> seb128: Time for a lightdm packaging question?
<seb128> GunnarHj, sure
<GunnarHj> The lightdm source package contains the file debian/guest-session-auto.sh, which has translatable strings. However, robert_ancell let me know that autotools fails if po/POTFILES.in refers to  a file in debian/, so in the latest lightdm release those strings didn't make it to lightdm.mo.
<GunnarHj> Any ideas how this issue can be resolved?
<seb128> GunnarHj, do you have details on how it fails? listing a debian/ file should work without issue
<GunnarHj> seb128: No, I'm afraid not.
<Laney> hmm
<GunnarHj> seb128: Can the problem be related to the fact that upstream lightdm is identical with lightdm in Ubuntu?
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brightness#Phone do we have anything that looks like that in u-s-s atm?
<xnox> unity-control-center wants to be demoted to universe, shouldn't it be seeded into ubuntu-desktop?
<Laney> I did two Standards but it looks weird
<Laney> xnox: not yet
<Laney> put it in supported for now if you want
<xnox> Laney: at least into common / supported. Ack.
<seb128> xnox, what Laney said, the transition is still not done so we can't switch yet
<seb128> GunnarHj, well, if that debian file is not upstream we need a debian/patches in the packaging to add it to the POTFILES.in
<xnox> seb128: Laney: is "supported-desktop-extra" seed meant to be in main or universe?
<xnox> cause xchat-gnome is trying to get demoted into universe, yet it's in that seed...
<GunnarHj> seb128: So an Ubuntu patch that adds the required line to po/POTFILES.in would solve the problem?
<Laney> xnox: where?
<seb128> GunnarHj, it should, btw I'm not sure I like that new feature, it's quite annoying to have that reminder all the time
<GunnarHj> seb128: It has been requested... And it can be disabled.
<GunnarHj> seb128: After all, you are not the typical guest, right?
<xnox> Laney: good point. bug #1272232 is miss-leading
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1272232 in xchat-indicator (Ubuntu) "Please demote xchat-indicator and xchat-gnome to universe" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1272232
<seb128> GunnarHj, who knows if I'm a typical guest or not? ;-) The feature might be mostly used by devs for testing for what we know
<seb128> GunnarHj, we don't really have datas to say who use that feature most and how
<GunnarHj> seb128: True... But devs is not the official target audience. Anyway, I'm about to completely rewrite https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CustomizeGuestSession, and it will include howto disable the dialog.
<seb128> GunnarHj, ok, thanks
<Laney> seb128: see my u-s-s question â please
<Laney> hmm
<GunnarHj> seb128: In the meantime, this is for you only:
<GunnarHj> Create the file /etc/guest-session/prefs.sh and insert this line:
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguageAndText#phone uses a ListItem.Caption for that Shift thing
<GunnarHj> touch $HOME/.skip-guest-warning-dialog
<GunnarHj> ;-)
<seb128> GunnarHj, thanks
<GunnarHj> seb128: You're welcome. :)
<seb128> Laney, define "that"?
<Laney> which that?
<Laney> the subtitle thing
<seb128> "do we have anything that looks like *that*"
<seb128> it's a caption
<seb128> though those don't line wrap
<seb128> which sucks
<Laney> mmm
<seb128> Laney, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Location#Phone has a mockup
<Laney> there's http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/Ubuntu.Components.ListItems.Subtitled/
<Laney> but it has no control
<Laney> yeah I can't tell if that's the same thing
<seb128> Laney, I would put 2 entries next to each other without a divider
<Laney> mpt's mockup has a divider
<seb128> not between the checkbox and the caption
<Laney> on Location
<seb128> oh, right
<Laney> https://ubuntuone.com/1H4TZb2iZxg23RmAQ3v2as
<seb128> Laney, we don't have any UI with a checkbox and caption I think
<seb128> Laney, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareUpdates?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=phone-settings-updates-automatic.png has a subtitle on the 3rd option
<seb128> Laney, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OnlineAccounts#phone-settings has some caption as well
<seb128> Laney, btw speaking of those, see my comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1194513
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1194513 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "[ListItem] Should be possible to wrap text in list items" [Undecided,In progress]
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> Caption seems to be the best for now
<desrt> Laney, seb128: good morning!
<seb128> we really need to get the caption look fixed though
<seb128> the left margin at least
<seb128> it looks just weird
<seb128> desrt, hey, happy friday!
<Laney> hey seb128!
<Laney> erm
<Laney> i did a 0 character tab complete
<Laney> hey desrt!
<mpt> Ooh, I was inconsistent
<mpt> The âLanguage & Textâ captions are after their respective items, but the brightness âAdjust automaticallyâ caption is inside the item
<seb128> mpt, do you know if anyone is working on fixing the caption look? see Laney's screenshot in the backlog, the left margin doesn't look right
<mpt> seb128, I donât work on or communicate with the SDK team (except through bug reports), though that might change in future
<Laney> haha
<seb128> mpt, ok
<seb128> mpt, btw, it's not only language&text, in e.g https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Location#Phone you also put the caption after the item
<mpt> seb128, yeah, I think the Brightness one is the odd one out
<mpt> At the moment, at least â¦ If I designed the toolkit theyâd probably all look like that
<desrt> that was not fun.
<desrt> Laney: greetings :)
<Laney> desrt: something happen?
<desrt> i got the megalag and then my server booted me off
<seb128> Laney, can you test https://code.launchpad.net/~macslow/notify-osd/notify-osd.fix-1092905/+merge/203047 on your non unity config? ;-)
<seb128> tjaalton, mlankhorst: https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/49d3a89d3542996200164f9b4a5c33cbdba206c2 is 1st on e.u.c for trusty today with 9 report, could you have a look (intel gpu lock)
<tjaalton> looks like apport got reenabled then ;)
<pitti> tjaalton: errors.u.c. never gets disabled
<pitti> tjaalton: but I'll reenable launchpad crash reports soon
<pitti> (like, today or Monday, -ETOOMUCHTODO)
<seb128> tjaalton, or an issue with a kernel update?
<tjaalton> ahh
<tjaalton> seb128: could be, there haven't been other updates lately
<seb128> wooot, indicators landing, getting closer from an unity-control-center working ;-)
<seb128> pitti, dpm: how do we get a new template added to the desktop language-pack (unity-control-center)?
<dpm> seb128, afaik, once the template is approved in LP, then langpack-o-matic puts it in the right langpack looking at the dependencies
<pitti> seb128: you mean it doesn't currently built a  .pot with that?
<seb128> pitti, I'm about to fix the build to have a pot and the package is in main, I'm wondering what I should (if anything) then to have the pot landing in the desktop langpack binary
<pitti> seb128: from the langpack side, nothign; LP just needs to pick it up and export it
<seb128> pitti, how does the system know in what langpack to put it? (unity-control-center is not seeded yet, do I need to wait for that to happen?)
<pitti> seb128: it looks at its dependencies
<pitti> seb128: as it links to gtk-ish stuff, it'll categorize it for the -gnome langpack
<seb128> pitti, excellent, thanks
<sil2100> Laney: hi! Regarding that grilo patch forwarding ;)
<sil2100> Laney: I'm not an expert in this code base, but I actually see that they did something like this in trunk instead: https://git.gnome.org/browse/grilo/tree/libs/net/grl-net-mock.c?id=e04c039a98d0956936c671b0678756bfaa1a5480#n262
<sil2100> Laney: I guess this might protect from the double-free problems we've been encountering, right?
 * didrocks is away for exercising
 * seb128 follows didrocks
<Laney> sil2100: ummmmmm
<Laney> sil2100: seems likely, yeah
<mterry> seb128, OK.  So in Unity, I see Backups in both g-c-c and u-c-c.  You're saying that in GNOME, it doesn't show up in either?
<mterry> seb128, So in Unity, I see Backups in both g-c-c and u-c-c.  You're saying that in GNOME, it doesn't show up in either?
<seb128> mterry, hey
<mterry> seb128, hi.  Sorry, my IRC is crazy
<mterry> seb128, did you get my question?
<seb128> mterry, I'm saying that backup doesn't show in gnome-control-center.real under Unity
<mterry> oh... .real?
<seb128> mterry, g-c-c is a wrapper calling u-c-c or g-c-c.real
<seb128> mterry, if you have u-c-c and want to try g-c-c you need to run .real
<seb128> mterry, otherwise you get u-c-c through the wrapper
<mterry> seb128, OK.  So in Unity, without u-c-c, I wouldn't see Backups
<seb128> mterry, if that makes sense?
<seb128> correct
<seb128> which is the default config in trusty atm
<seb128> since we didn't complete the transition/switch the seed
<mterry> seb128, I'm leery of just adding Unity;GNOME; because then there would be two entries in the dash, eh?
<seb128> mterry, that's a good point maybe we just need to finish the transition
<seb128> mterry, btw did you see my deja-dup mp to fix the unity integration?
<mterry> seb128, I had been testing without understanding we had a wrapper, so I thought everything was magically fine.  :)
<mterry> seb128, just merged it
<seb128> mterry, great, thanks ;-)
<mterry> seb128, maybe g-c-c should force GNOME when looking for its panels.  And u-c-c should force Unity
<seb128> mterry, yeah, it just occurred to me that the wrapper might have tricked you :p
<mterry> seb128, that's what I thought g-c-c was doing, and I figured it was very clever
<mterry> There is a way to tell libgmenu or whatever which desktop you are in (otherwise, it looks it up in env)
<seb128> mterry, that would make sense I guess
<mterry> Not sure it's really needed.  But it would help in the transition maybe
<seb128> with the 2 variant you don't want dynamic behaviour
<seb128> you want g-c-c to act as a GNOME config tool and u-c-c as an Unity one
<seb128> mterry, well, the transition is mostly done, so I would say we don't need to bother
<seb128> dpm, can you approve https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/unity-control-center/+imports?field.filter_status=all&field.filter_extension=pot for me?
<mterry> seb128, thanks for figuring out that MP of yours, btw.  I'm surprised I never finished hooking that option up
<mterry> seb128, just got lost in the transition to cmake
<seb128> mterry, yw ;-)
<dpm> seb128, done, should be imported in a few minutes (20 or so, perhaps)
<seb128> dpm, thanks!
<Laney>  wait wtf
<Laney> why doesn't powerd use properties?
<seb128> Laney, did you see my notify-osd ping earlier?
<Laney> no
<Laney> when/where?
<seb128> Laney, this channel, ~3:40 ago
<Laney> oh yes I got it
<seb128> Laney, so can you test it? ;-)
<Laney> yeah building it now
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> what should happen?
<Laney> the notifications should be below the panel?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> same that they were until recently
<Laney> I didn't even notice that changed :(
<seb128> oh, maybe it's working with gnome-panel
<Laney> no, they do overlap
<Laney> how do I make sure I'm using the new one?
<seb128> Laney, what is your " gsettings get com.canonical.notify-osd multihead-mode"
<seb128> old default was no-focus-follow, new one is focus-follow
<Laney> focus-follow
<seb128> it might be a multimonitor issue only
<Laney> I see the problem
<seb128> well, in any case, just check your bubble are still placed next to the panel
<Laney> I just never noticed it changed / was wrong
<seb128> k
<Laney> so, I installed it
<Laney> do I have to restart something?
<seb128> no
<seb128> the postinst restart it
<Laney> then they are still overlapping
<seb128> hum
<seb128> check since when notify-osd is running?
<seb128> in case the restart thing didn't work
<Laney> 17:03
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> bah, MacSlow left on that :p
<seb128> come back!!!
<seb128> Laney, do you use 1 or 2 screens?
<Laney> very wily
<Laney> 1
 * Laney scps the deb to the multi-monitor unity desktop
<Laney> something is wrong
<seb128> buggy on the other setup as well?
<Laney> I don't get notifications on the left monitor
<Laney> if I select a window on the right one I see them
<seb128> you should get it on the monitor which has the focussed win
<seb128> was it working before that update?
<Laney> yes and it works if I downgrade
<seb128> ok, I guess that makes it a verification-failed, good that I asked you to test
<Laney> let me comment
<seb128> can you comment on the mp saying that?
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> done
<seb128> Laney, I guess your left monitor is smaller resolution?
<Laney> ya
<Laney> 900 vs 1050 vertical
<seb128> I can confirm that
<seb128> the bubbles are missing on smaller resolution screen (or shifted to the top, if I change my 1920 for 1680 I can still see the bubble but it's getting a bit offscreen)
<Laney> a diff that simple has to be too good to be true ;-)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> darkxst, commented on your wikipage, I think you should update the "Previous Endorsements" to specify for what the endorsements were, it's a bit misleading, it looks like they are recommendation for MOTU/GNOME set where they are not
<Laney> pub time!
<Laney> happy weekend everyone :-)
<seb128> Laney, thanks have fun at the pub and a good w.e!
<Noah_Budy> i want to create a games folder on my desktop
<Noah_Budy> i have one there now. and put my steam install and 2 playonlinux shortcuts there
<Noah_Budy> but i cannot figure out how to put other shortcuts into the desktop
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-01-25
<ezrhino> hello. Does anyone here have experience with Ubuntu fonts at boot?
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-01-26
<CR1T1C4L718> hello
<xnox> ezrhino: sum.
<an0n432O> hi
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-01-19
<pitti> Good morning
<desrt> pitti: hihi
<pitti> hey desrt
 * desrt is having some trouble with debootstrap :/
<desrt> do you know how we build the full package list from a seed?
<pitti> desrt: yes, that's "germinate"
<pitti> desrt: I don't have too much experience with it, but the metapackages like ubuntu-meta have an ./update script which calls it and inflates it to full lists
<desrt> hm
<pitti> desrt: I also use it in langpack-o-matic for touch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/langpack-o-matic/main/view/head:/update-touch-packages
<desrt> does debian do this in a different way?
<pitti> yes, they don't use seeds
<desrt> how do they decide what gets in the base system?
<pitti> debootstrap just installs everything with Priority: required
<desrt> debootstrap has an --include option but it's not very useful :(
<desrt> hm.  germinate has python bindings.  interesting!
<desrt> i want to fill a deboostrap with the required builddeps for a jhbuild run but the recursive dependency solver of debootstrap has some ... limitations.  the manpage advises to disable it and list all packages explicitly.
<pitti> desrt: err yes, don't do that
<desrt> seems that germinate may have some similar issues, though
<pitti> always start from a plain debootstrap (like schroot or lxc-create), and use normal apt then
<desrt> it has a warning in the BUGS section of its manpage that it can get confused
<desrt> pitti: ya..... seems like it may be a much better choice
<pitti> nothing else handles some corner cases and intricacies of dependencies like apt
<desrt> although the idea of doing the full dependency resolution in python is appealing since i have a problem with '|' depends and apt....
<pitti> desrt: what I do in autopkgtest is to create a dummy "adt-satdep.deb" with an appropriate Depends: line
<desrt> ya.  i have a script that uses equivs to do that
<pitti> copy that into the target, dpkg --unpack it, and then call apt-get -f install
<desrt> i've seen apt-get -f install "resolve" the situation by uninstalling my .deb :)
<pitti> which works reasonably well
<pitti> it would only do that for unsatisfiable deps though
<desrt> hmmm
<pitti> and this should cause an error then
<desrt> nah... it just removes the .deb and it's totally happy :)
<desrt> anyway... thanks for the advice
<desrt> i think i will try to take the equivs approach
<pitti> desrt: equivs does just that
<desrt> indeed
<pitti> build an empty deb with that Depends:, installs it and apt-get -f install
<desrt> i meant to say: i intend to follow your suggestion
<pitti> TTBOMK there is no other way of saying "dear apt, please install that dependency string"
<pitti> I've long wanted "apt-get install foo.deb" :)
<desrt> gdebi!
<desrt> 'apt install foo.deb' would probably be a security problem
<desrt> for all the people who have 'apt-get install' in their sudoers file :)
<desrt> pitti: seems that it's also relatively possible to drive apt's python interface in the same way that gdebi does in order to get the job done
<pitti> desrt: I find it nice to install a set of given packages
<pitti> desrt: did you find a way to parse/resolve a dependency string?
<desrt> there is a function called satisfy_depends_str() on apt.debfile.DebPackage
<pitti> oh, that sounds promising
<desrt> i'm not totally sure about that
<desrt> you need to have the package existing first, which is a bit annoying
<desrt> okay... so it seems that you can do approximately this:
<desrt> c = apt.cache.Cache()
<desrt> dp = apt.debfile.DebPackage(cache = c)
<desrt> dp.satisfy_depends_str('...')
<desrt> dp.check()
<desrt> print dp.required_changes
<didrocks> good morning
<desrt> didrocks: hihi
<desrt> how was your weekend?
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> hey desrt, pitti!
<didrocks> desrt: week-end was good, but could have been a little bit longer TBH :) how about you?
<desrt> same.  got a lot of interesting things done :)
<didrocks> kdus-wise?
<desrt> nah... went to see knights fighting each other with swords and helped a friend move to his new place in toronto
<desrt> but also got some stuff done with jhbuild and started to learn how to drive apt from python to solve dependencies...
<didrocks> ahah, nice! seems you start being a python fan :)
<didrocks> the apt bindings in python are quite nice
<desrt> i've been a python fan for years
<desrt> just now i start to be a real python programmer :)
<didrocks> heh
<desrt> pitti: http://fpaste.org/171275/64833914/
<desrt> so there you have it
<desrt> obviously not the intended use of this API, but it gets the job done
<didrocks> pitti: seems I was quite right with the * matching issue with the local bridge under systemd
<desrt> and if you step away from the idea that the format of the Depends: line in a control file is anything special proably you can avoid the DebPackage interface entirely and just reimplement what it is doing internally
<larsu> good morning!
<desrt> larsu: good morning
<larsu> desrt: good late-evening ;)
<desrt> ya ya... just about to go to sleep :)
<didrocks> good morning larsu :)
<larsu> hi didrocks, again ;)
<pitti> desrt: ah, what is an example of required_changes? you somehow need to translate this into apt.Cache()[pkg].mark_install() calls, right?
<pitti> didrocks: i. e. you can't match globs, we need to match precise values?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, so if we create an android-property@foo,bar.target, we can't then WantedBy=android-property@*foo*.target in another unit for instance
<didrocks> so it means that we will multiply units for values where they can be lists
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey didrocks larsu pitti
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
 * pitti â doctor appointment, TTYL
<mlankhorst>  morning
<seb128> hey mlankhorst
<didrocks> re seb128
<seb128> re ;-)
<didrocks> hey mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> bonjour!
<maclin> Hi,  Ubuntu Installer Team,  could someone help to review the merge request: https://code.launchpad.net/~maclin.jun/ubiquity/fix_1304410/+merge/246064
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> seb128: may i quickly bug you about the second xdg-utils MR (that i mentioned previously would come at some point) ?
<seb128> ochosi, hey, sure
<seb128> maclin, hi, you are on the desktop channel, you might rather want to try #ubuntu-devel for installer reviews
<ochosi> seb128: so, we've figured out support for light-locker (actually the proper dbus inhibition is totally broken in xdg-utils, so we'll have to go the X11 way for now), here's the MR (which applies on top of my previous MR): https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/vivid/xdg-utils/lp1363540/+merge/246820
<ochosi> sorry for the mess, the .pc dir seems to have been part of the package already
<ochosi> i can clean that up though if you want
<seb128> ochosi, ok, great, good job figuring it out
<seb128> not your fault
<seb128> the .pc thing is a known issue with the source import workflow
<ochosi> oh ok
<maclin> seb128, got it ,thanks:)
<ochosi> seb128: oh, also: that patch has been submitted upstream >1 week ago, but since we didn't get any reply and direly need it in xubuntu (it's tested and works), i hoped we could push it into ubuntu first
<seb128> yeah, no problem
<ochosi> if there's anything else i can do to help move this along, ping me anytime!
<seb128> seems things just need sponsoring, we should be fine
<seb128> thanks for working on that ;-)
<ochosi> cool! well thank you for always supporting me/us here
<seb128> oh, dholbach is piloting today and didrocks tomorrow, so I guess we should see some action on the sponsoring queue ;-)
<ochosi> nice :)
<ochosi> seb128: another quick question: how are the chances we could SRU this to trusty? the same (annoying) bug exists there and it'd be nice to give our LTS users some love
<seb128> ochosi, those changes seem fine to SRU
<ochosi> great!
<seb128> ochosi, somebody should make the bug SRU compliant though (impact/test case/regression potential)
<ochosi> i'll wait for it to get pushed to vivid and then prep the SRU paperwork
<ochosi> or would it be better to do everything in one go?
<seb128> waiting is fine
<seb128> the fix needs to go in vivid first and it's always good to have some testing before SRUing
<ochosi> yeah, thought so
<darkxst> hey seb128
<darkxst> is anyone working on gedit update? I vaguely remember some screenshots being shown around?
<seb128> hey darkxst
<seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~ari-tczew/gedit/ubuntu/+merge/246239
<seb128> I didn't try it, but I think somebody needs to patch it to use wm decorations under !GNOME
<darkxst> seb128, I could probably patch it to do that, but I sure I saw screenshots of gedit with the osx UI?
<darkxst> a while back
<seb128> yeah, they have support for that
<seb128> but we might need to add a configure option
<seb128> also their is probably buildtime and not runtime
<mlankhorst> well xmir rotation sort of works now, at least 180Â°, having some trouble with 90 and 270 :P
<darkxst> seb128,  the currently the only way to get osx ui pulls in lots of !linux stuff as well and yes its build time only
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> darkxst, upstream said they would be happy to take a patch for the unity case though
<seb128> hey willcooke
<mlankhorst> hm or maybe I'm thinking too hard
<darkxst> seb128, I'm not volunteering to write the patch, still need to get to totem menu patch! was just asking since someone posted a screenshot on here a while back
<darkxst> Laney ^?
<darkxst> seb128, and I mean the osx UI patch there, a patch to use traditional titlebars with GNOME UI would only take me 10mins
<darkxst> so I could do the latter
<Laney> morning
<darkxst> hey Laney
<Laney> hi darkxst, what's up?
<Laney> who looked at gedit/osx?
<darkxst> Laney, I have no idea! I saw a screenshot on here a while back with the old UI
<Laney> doesn't look like it's as simple as using that
<darkxst> Laney, I know its not that simple
<mlankhorst> willcooke: Ok I think I have rotation working :P
<darkxst> the osx builds bring in a lot of !linux stuff
<seb128> hey Laney, had a good w.e ?
<willcooke> mlankhorst, amazing!  Thanks
 * darkxst has to go do some plastering, seems the gedit mystery shall remain unsolved 
<mlankhorst> just a second
<mlankhorst> willcooke: https://mblankhorst.nl/etc/Xmir
<willcooke> mlankhorst, thx will download and test
<Laney> not bad thanks seb128, did some painting downstairs, getting there now ;-)
<Laney> darkxst: I'll look, be calm young one
<willcooke> I found a cool "bug" over the weekend.  Gears for example has a transparent background in the switcher so you can see through it when moving between running apps.  It's looks sweet :D
<darkxst> Laney, pretty sure you are the young one ;)
<darkxst> and Jackson is the really young one!
<Laney> I'm telling my dad on you
<mlankhorst> or are you?!
<darkxst> Laney, sure go ahead! I'm pretty safe down here in Aus!
<Laney> heh
<darkxst> might need to rename Ubuntu GNOME to Ubuntu Australia though
<mlankhorst> willcooke: input's going to be a bit weird though
<mlankhorst> it's currently not rotating input
<willcooke> mlankhorst,  understood
<mlankhorst> looks like input will still stay a todo for now.. no support yet for enumerating devices
<willcooke> mlankhorst, a topic for the sprint :D
 * willcooke adds it to the list
<didrocks> FJKong: hey! do you have the list of dependency for your project somewhere? That will help speeding up without looking at your long makefile :)
<FJKong> no
<FJKong> didrocks: is there any wrong with compiling?
<didrocks> FJKong: I have some missing modules it seems
<didrocks> $ /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/bin/qmake
<FJKong> qmake -o Makefile demo.pro
<didrocks> Project ERROR: Unknown module(s) in QT: declarative
<didrocks> seems that qmake, even without any argument don't find the declarative module
<FJKong> oh maybe you need sudo apt-install xxx-dev
<didrocks> that is obviously installed :/
<FJKong> i remember I installed some dev lib
<didrocks> well, qtdeclarative5-dev for sure
<FJKong> I use qt4 I think
<didrocks> oh?
 * didrocks looks
<didrocks> well, even qmake alone is using the qt5 version
<didrocks> but ok, I'll try with the qt4 version
<didrocks> FJKong: right, you are using qt4, qml is not supported with it anymore FYI
<didrocks> hum, qmake-qt4 -o Makefile demo.pro -> exit 0, no binary built :/
<didrocks> ah, makefile is refreshed
<didrocks> ok, compiling
<didrocks> FJKong: where are you getting a segfault? It launches here, but I don't have any input method installed
<didrocks> ah, on exit :p
<FJKong> just close it
<didrocks> yeah, ok, good, I can reproduce!
<didrocks> FJKong: will keep you posted
<FJKong> no  it jsut a demo
<didrocks> but if you want to go on with that project, really go on qt5, we are not going to install qt4 by default
<didrocks> yeah, looking at why it's segfaulting
 * didrocks found the line of the segfault, let's see why this delete makes it failâ¦
<didrocks> FJKong: found it!
<FJKong> oh
<didrocks> let me see if it's the same in qt4 documentation first
<FJKong> great
<didrocks> yeah, so:
<didrocks> short answer: remove "delete mImageProvider;" in MainController::~MainController()
<didrocks> the reason is you are freeing an object that is already freed
<didrocks> if you read the addImageProvider() documentation, it's written:
<didrocks> "The QDeclarativeEngine takes ownership of provider."
<didrocks> (http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qdeclarativeengine.html#addImageProvider)
<didrocks> same in qt5 btw
<didrocks> so, when you call removeImageProvider, it frees it
<didrocks> and then, if you call delete on it, wellâ¦ segfault :)
<didrocks> FJKong: making sense?
<FJKong> so add and remove need all in that class?
<didrocks> FJKong: sorry, not sure I'm getting you
<didrocks> just to rephrase what I told:
<didrocks> when you run engine->addImageProvider("foo", mImageProvider);
<didrocks> then, engine is taking ownership of mImageProvider
<didrocks> meaning that when you run:
<didrocks> engine->removeImageProvider("foo)
<didrocks> engine->removeImageProvider("foo")
<didrocks> this is calling for you: delete mImageProvider;
<didrocks> so, you don't need (and shouldn't) try on your own to free mImageProvider, it has already been freed for you
<FJKong> ok I see
<didrocks> tbh, the removeImageProvider could have said that explicitely
<didrocks> (the documentation)
<FJKong> I have a question: if I need new another provider in MainController class how can I release previous one?
<didrocks> FJKong: you remove the first one and add the new one
<didrocks> so engine->removeImageProvider("foo")
<didrocks> ngine->addImageProvider("foo", mNewImageProvider);
<didrocks> e*
<didrocks> you can even reuse mImageProvider, as the object is owned by the engine
<didrocks> so:
<didrocks> engine->removeImageProvider("foo")
<FJKong> this part is right
<didrocks> mImageProvider = new ResourceImageProvider(QDeclarativeImageProvider::Image);
<didrocks> engine->addImageProvider("foo", mImageProvider);
<didrocks> and that's it :)
<FJKong> hmm
<FJKong> the operation new XXX is only once and reuse it later?
<didrocks> FJKong: no, you need to create a new one
<didrocks> as with my last snippet
<FJKong> I use it like what you said
<didrocks> as the first one will be freed with removeImageProvider()
<didrocks> and recreate a second one?
<FJKong> ye
<didrocks> good :) everything makes sense?
<FJKong> maybe increasing memory is in somewhere else not here
<FJKong> yes this is helpful to me
<didrocks> good, do not hesitate if you still have any question or something you don't understand :)
<didrocks> (you don't increase memory here, as the first object is freed automatically by removeImageProvider())
<FJKong> didrocks: nice man + 1024
<FJKong> thanks
<didrocks> heh, yw! :)
<didrocks> hum, seems that Debug: doesn't work in plymouth themes :/
<didrocks> tseliot: hey! any trick that you can remember about plymouth themes and debug? I try to Debug("foo"); a command; Debug("bar"). the command is run (like changing opacity) so this code is executed in the ubuntu script
<didrocks> tseliot: I tried to add plymouth:debug in --kernel-command-line=, --debug + --debug-file=/tmp/plymouth-debug-out, but no debug info from the theme
<tseliot> didrocks: So you can see the "foo" and "bar" lines but you need more information?
<didrocks> tseliot: on the contrary, I can't see them
<didrocks> neither on the output (with --no-daemon)
<didrocks> or in /tmp/plymouth-debug-out
<tseliot> didrocks: they are supposed to show up in the bootsplash. You can try DebugMedium() and DebugBottom(), just in case Debug() is writing outside of the visible area
<didrocks> tseliot: ah, it's in the splash, not in any debug info, ok, will try other Debug() facilities
<tseliot> didrocks: yep
<didrocks> tseliot: ok, seeing it now, thanks!
<tseliot> didrocks: yw
 * didrocks communicates successfully the progress of multiple fsck running in parallel to plymouth through fsckd \o/
<didrocks> need to tweak the theme to support that well :)
<desrt> pitti: DebPackage is calling mark_install() on the cache
<desrt> it all seems a bit impure, to be honest
<desrt> unless this is the same algorithm that apt is using internally as well
<desrt> but i'm pretty sure that in 'normal apt' Depends: lines are not solved by a python script...
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> for some reason I can't log into unity8 on vivid
<dholbach> on lightdm, I choose unity8-mir
<dholbach> then I get another login screen
<dholbach> where I type my password and it tells me that the password is wrong
<dholbach> is this a known issue?
<dholbach> seb128, ^ do you know?
<seb128> dholbach, that second screen is in qwerty layout most likely, even if your system use e.g qwertzu or whatever .de is
<dholbach> qwertz, yes
<dholbach> but "German keyboard" was selected in the indicator
<seb128> try assuming it's qwerty and type your password on that
<seb128> right
<seb128> but that's the greeter
<seb128> then you get the unity8 lock
<seb128> and unity8 doesn't respect the indicator it seems
<dholbach> larsu, ^ fix it!
<seb128> lol
<dholbach> :-P
<seb128> dholbach, try and let me know if that works
<dholbach> ok, brb
 * larsu hides
<seb128> larsu, is Daniel in Berlin atm? ;-)
<larsu> seb128: no sure. He was an hour ago when I had lunch with him ;)
<seb128> haha
<didrocks> larsu: don't answer, then, he will trick daniel into harassing you about that bug :)
<didrocks> fatal error! :)
<larsu> uh oh
<seb128> lol, no, larsu has enough to do with gtk & bluetooth indicator/settings work
<larsu> \o/
<seb128> I was just checking how practical it is for him to hide :p
<didrocks> with some creamy css on top of it!
<seb128> I hear that didrocks likes web tech and that includes css
<seb128> we should maybe reassign that from larsu to didrocks ;-)
<didrocks> can we use sass? I'm not that crazy to use bare css without webcomponent and not having any structure :p
<dholbach> ok, that worked
<dholbach> why do we need two greeters? :)
<dholbach> is there a bug open for it?
<larsu> didrocks: adwaita uses sass, actually
<didrocks> larsu: really? nice! but not our theme I guess?
<seb128> dholbach, we don't need 2 greeters, it just happens that the split greeter has issues for the phone usecase and that they implemented in session greeter for v1
<seb128> dholbach, but they don't provide a way for lightdm to start the session unlocked
<seb128> dholbach, there is a blueprint or bug about it I think, let me check
<larsu> didrocks: no. Nobody properly maintains it (I make some changes every now and then to unbreak things)
<dholbach> ok, once I can launch gnome-terminal and gnome-xchat from unity8 I might actually try to use it for a day or something :-P
<ochosi> larsu, didrocks: knock yourselves out, but porting a theme to SASS basically means rewriting/recreating it... i'm working on that for our (xubuntu) theme, but it's a lot of work initially. hopefully it'll pay off by being easier to maintain/sync with adwaita
<didrocks> larsu: interesting, you almost tempted me!
<didrocks> ochosi: right, it's quite some work to port to scss, but at least, it's maintainable (theorically)
<seb128> dholbach, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1360307
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1360307 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Logging in to the desktop session brings up the lock screen" [High,Triaged]
<dholbach> thanks seb128!
<seb128> dholbach, yw!
<larsu> didrocks: I'm up for it myself as well, but I'm not sure it's worth it until we get a theme refresh from design
<larsu> didrocks: I'll let you know when that happens if you want to help out
<larsu> (lol)
<didrocks> larsu: yeah, I'm in the same undecision about the ubuntu theme
<didrocks> (in plymouth)
<didrocks> the logo theme would need some cleanup, some features were removed, but code is still there
<didrocks> but well, why rewriting without a theme refreshâ¦
<didrocks> and will plymouth will still be what's showing up at boot? unsure :)
<larsu> right
<larsu> I've been thinking of using some assets from the phone (the spinner for example)
<larsu> but I'm unsure if we want to just update the design here and there, without a full vision
<didrocks> yeahâ¦
<seb128> Laney, I saw you just commented on some poppler bug, are you looking at updating to poppler 0.30 (I just noticed the new version was available, I can do the update if you are not on it)
<desrt> today's amazing footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwe10pbVPDQ
<desrt> along with one of the most hilarious tweets of all time -- https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/555981841476227072/photo/1
<desrt> "rapid unscheduled disassembly"
<desrt> not a bad euphemism for "our $50mil piece of equipment violently exploded"
<pitti> didrocks: hah, was that the recent attempt to land the rocket on a ship for re-use?
<pitti> err, desrt
<pitti> desrt: I read about that maybe a week or so ago; not at all bad to hit the ship in the first place :)
<desrt> pitti: they released the video just today, i think
<pitti> yeah, it's quite obviously that one
<seb128> hum
<seb128> so it seems the battery usage issues/lack of sleep on touch/rtm is due to the upower transition
<seb128> oh, no kenvandine today, u.s holiday ftw for him it seems ;-)
<Laney> weird
<Laney> does it happen on vivid too?
<Laney> why would that be?
<seb128> dunno,cking bisected the touch images and found that
<cking> that's my current hypothesis, bisecting this device and measuring it in deep suspend is proving to be time consuming and non-trivial
<seb128> cking, are you off by one image btw? because the upower change happened on 176 not 177
<seb128> cking, http://people.canonical.com/~lzemczak/landing-team/ubuntu-rtm/176.commitlog
<pmcgowan> cking, was just commenting the same, we backported upower to silence some dbus events
<seb128> the upower transition is quite some code changes though, so there could be side effects
<cking> perhaps if I was to try with the older upower and see if that makes the device deep suspend more reliably ~176-ish  seems to be more flakey than earlier revisions
<cking> wrt going into deep suspend
<pmcgowan> cking, bet youa re on to something, this was the bug that brought it in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1337200
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1337200 in upower (Ubuntu RTM) "High CPU due to excessive device changed signals from upower" [High,Fix released]
<cking> pmcgowan, it maybe, as it stands, I've heard a pop sound and I can't power on the phone. I've had this before, I need to see what's going wrong
<pmcgowan> oh my
<cking> i have a spare, don't panic :-)
<rsalveti> pop sound was usually related with kernel crash
<rsalveti> when handling the sound buffer
<cking> yeah, but with blue smoke too?
<pmcgowan> oh my again
<pmcgowan> software stuff is dangerous
<rsalveti> no, that would be news :-)
<pmcgowan> rsalveti, we had a new device tarball in 175 fwiw
<rsalveti> what are the changes for it?
<pmcgowan> http://people.canonical.com/~jhm/barajas/ubuntu-rtm-14.09/device_krillin-20141209-cae2b5f.changes
<pmcgowan> oh wait there is more
<pmcgowan> http://people.canonical.com/~jhm/barajas/ubuntu-rtm-14.09/device_krillin-20141209-0145438.changes
<pmcgowan> http://people.canonical.com/~jhm/barajas/ubuntu-rtm-14.09/device_krillin-20141202-d15a67a.changes
<rsalveti> from what I see nothing that could really affect this
<pmcgowan> nope
<cking> phone resurrected \o/
<cking> so it may be sporadic issue like suspend works well and sometimes it does not, so bisecting it can be problematic
<cking> if you see my test rig you will understand it's not just a software problem
<Laney> darkxst: I'm uploading the a-i-t split, you probably want to switch your seeds to a-i-t-full
<darkxst> Laney, ok
<robert_ancell> TheMuso`, should the screenreader keybinding in trusty be fixed on the login screen (bug 1407865)?
<ubot5> bug 1407865 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu Trusty) " "Super+Alt+S" did not function at the login screen" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1407865
<robert_ancell> We fixed it in utopic
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-01-20
<TheMuso`> robert_ancell_: Thats difficult, because its difficult to transition users from using one shortcut to another. The installer still offers both, although the desktop uses the newer shortcut, super + alt + s. Probably worth changing to be consistant.
<robert_ancell_> TheMuso`, so should we make u-g do both in trusty?
<robert_ancell_> seb128 was concerned about changing the existing key combo
<TheMuso`> robert_ancell_: Is that hard to do? Afaik we offer the shortcut via the menu shortcut stuff atm.
<TheMuso`> robert_ancell_: Particularly since the menu shows the shortcut as well.
<robert_ancell_> TheMuso`, harder than backporting the fix but shouldn't be too hard to change the default to alt+ctrl+s and also support ctrl+s
<TheMuso`> Alt + super + S, and yeah sounds good.
<TheMuso`> as well as control + s.
<robert_ancell_> yeah, that one :)
<pitti> Good morning
<desrt> hello pitti
<pitti> hey desrt, how are you?
<desrt> okay
<desrt> just writing some NEWS
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, Ã§a va ?
<larsu> good morning!
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va bien, et toi ?
<didrocks> good morning larsu !
<didrocks> hum, keybindings don't work, restarting session
<didrocks> and while I'm at it, rebooting under upstart for a test
<larsu> good luck ;)
<didrocks> interesting, pressing escape on plymouth even on upstart just shows a blank screen, we don't display /dev/console here, maybe only failing jobsâ¦
<didrocks> at least, I have my keybindings back now :)
<didrocks> larsu: if you try to scroll the volume on the sound menu, don't you see weird behavior
<didrocks> when dragging the slider?
<larsu> didrocks: yep, it's broken (and on my list)
<larsu> there's a bug about it iirc
<didrocks> ok, I'm not dreaming then! :)
<didrocks> I guess it's due to the 120% patch
<larsu> sure?
<larsu> I think it worked in U
 * larsu wrote that patch and probably tried the slider
<didrocks> I'm unsure, the offset seems to match a 20% missing :)
<didrocks> like if a callback would reset from the % the slider is completed
<larsu> hm, this might be a different issue
<didrocks> I don't really know in utopic, most of the time, I'm using the multimedia keys for this
<larsu> for me, it simply jumps back to 0
<didrocks> â¦ until they broke at login time :)
<didrocks> ah
<didrocks> try to drag until 80%
<larsu> like some event translation problem (sometimes I can make it go to 1/3)
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> and if you go over 80%, it's setting at 100%
 * larsu moves that up in his todo list. didrocks important.
<didrocks> larsu: ahah, don't! I just noticed it this morning due to the multimedia keys :)
<larsu> didrocks: interesting. I can't try that right now because I can't move it beyond 30%
<didrocks> well, still to fix for vivid
<larsu> right
<didrocks> larsu: I think I will be a good candidate to test your patch then!
<larsu> :)
<pitti> didrocks: je vais bien, merci !
<pitti> nous avons regardÃ© un bon concert hier soir -- "Scrap Arts Music"
<pitti> ah, http://scrapartsmusic.com/
 * didrocks looks
<pitti> they do drums and sounds on metal scrap, plastic pipes, isolation material and what not
<didrocks> pitti: sounds interestering! Were they giving a show in your city?
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, right in the "Parktheater" which is a 15 mins walk from here
<pitti> I love that place -- it's a beautiful theater in "Jugendstil" and they have a lot of nice shows
<didrocks> oh, nice! :)
<didrocks> I guess that style goes very well with this arts music show :)
<pitti> didrocks: well, let's say it's a nice contrast :)
<pitti> didrocks: we've seen magic shows and Jazz concerts there, and of course more classical theater plays
<pitti> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurhaus_G%C3%B6ggingen
<pitti> didrocks: would you have some minutes this morning for catching up on some systemd stuff?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey pitti
<pitti> bonjour seb128, Ã§a va ?
<desrt> word up seb
<seb128> pitti, is using /lib/systemld
<seb128> pitti, is using /lib/systemd/system a debian/ubuntu-ism?
<seb128> rather than /usr/lib/systemd
<seb128> pitti, oui, et toi ?
<pitti> seb128: well, it's an -ism of distros which haven't merged /usr into / yet
<pitti> s/yet//
<seb128> desrt, good middle-of-the-night
<desrt> :)
<pitti> seb128: but upstream software isn't supposed to hardcode that path anyway
<seb128> pitti, ok, I was reading a bit the systemd documentation to get more familiar with it and upstream documents /usr/lib/systemd so I was wondering
<pitti> seb128: yeah, that's for Fedora which installs the entire OS into /usr/ now
<seb128> k
 * desrt wonders when the debian world will realise the wisdom of os-in-/usr
<seb128> pitti, btw I noticed that you added some systemd job without having a Documentation=man:..., should we add that to the recommendations/template we use/...?
<didrocks> pitti: 30 minutes? having family here
<pitti> seb128: it's in the examples on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemdForUpstartUsers and documented there
<pitti> seb128: I added it to most stuff, but indeed I left it out where there are no manpages; did I forget one?
<pitti> we might also add some URLs or README files
<pitti> didrocks: sure, sounds fine!
<didrocks> hey seb128, desrt!
<desrt> didrocks: good morning
<seb128> pitti, well, e.g ufw doesn't have one and has a manpage, but you did that earlier in the cycle
<pitti> seb128: ah, I guess I was young and needed the ... education
<seb128> :-)
<pitti> seb128: yeah, that one certainly has manpages or other documents
<seb128> pitti, I'm trying to educate myself as well
<pitti> - debian/rulles: Call dh_systemd_{enable,start}.
<pitti> go, pitti, go! spelling R us!
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, btw do you have your sysgtemd catchup/discussion in public channels, or just over hangouts?
<pitti> seb128: I don't know yet
<pitti> seb128: the one I have in mind probably works better over IRC, but I'm fine with HO too
<pitti> (i. e. the writing-to-thinking ratio is quite low)
<seb128> if you do IRC I'm probably going to keep an eye on it
<pitti> seb128: that said, I always enjoy hangouts to actually see my friends :)
<seb128> trying to get a bit more involved with that side of things
 * pitti hugs seb128
<seb128> hehe
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> seb128: we got through most stuff, but especially on the phone there's still some bits to port if you are interested
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I might have a look at helping there
<seb128> and if not I'm going to try to help at least on bugs and maybe on the user session stuff next cycle
<didrocks> pitti: as you prefer, we can go on IRC
<didrocks> my family will live in a bit, but we can start chatting now
<didrocks> leave*
<pitti> didrocks: so, I was working on providing a counterpart for static-network-up
<pitti> i. e. I want to make network-online.target wait until all "auto" interfaces in /e/network/interfaces are up
<pitti> that's similar to NetworkManager-wait-online.service or systemd-networkd-wait-online.service which hook themselves there
<didrocks> this is not the default of network-online.target?
<didrocks> or is it when the first is up?
 * didrocks remembers a wiki page about it, but quite rotten in my mind
<pitti> n-o.t by itself does nothing, it just comes up when requested
<pitti> you have to "implement" it by adding dependencies to it, such as NetworkManager-wait-online.service
<didrocks> gotcha
<pitti> but so far we don't have an implementation for ifupdown
<didrocks> indeed
<pitti> so, you know about our udev rule to activate ifup@.service?
<pitti> grep net /lib/udev/rules.d/99-systemd.rules
<pitti> that one will call ifup@iface.service which will call "ifup iface" once these interfaces appear
<pitti> that is for catching interfaces which are hotplugged/slow to initialize and thus aren't covered by the /etc/init.d/networking run during boot
<didrocks> with $name, corresponding to the newly detected device
<pitti> so, my initial approach was to write a generator which adds Requires/After=ifup@XXX.service to network-online.target, for XXX in all "auto" /e/n/i
<pitti> that was http://paste.ubuntu.com/9792001/
<didrocks> but this starts the services, due to Requires?
<pitti> didrocks: but at that point I think the "dependencies" approach and the "hotplugged udev event" don't go well together
<didrocks> even before they are ready
<pitti> didrocks: right
<didrocks> yeah, so dependency vs event :)
<pitti> didrocks: so if you e. g. make whoopsie Requires/After=network-online.target (the standard way to say "start this service only after we have networking up")
<didrocks> it will start network-online.target
<pitti> didrocks: then whoopsie and network-online.target will fail with "dependency failure"
<didrocks> which will starts all if@
<didrocks> ifup@
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> because the unit doesn't exist
<pitti> if any of the /e/n/i interfaces aren't ready yet
<didrocks> well, it exists, but not ready
<pitti> didrocks: well, it works if /e/init.d/networking brings them all up
<pitti> didrocks: in my experiment I added an "eth42" to /e/n/i which doesn't exist
<pitti> but I can make it exist later with 'sudo ip link add name eth42 type veth peer name veth42'
<didrocks> oh right, that's how "new ones" come up
<pitti> didrocks: so that was my Q on the upstream mailing list -- can I somehow re-trigger the startup of network-oline.target and reverse deps
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, that just simulates a hotplug event, or an interface being detected very late during boot
<pitti> i. e. that ip link command will create an eth42 device, trigger the udev rule, trigger ifup eth42 through ifup@.service
<pitti> didrocks: so that's where in http://paste.ubuntu.com/9792001/ the last paragraph comes into play
<didrocks> hum
<pitti> didrocks: whenever an ifup@.service starts, it re-triggers network-online.target with the Wants=network-online.target
<pitti> didrocks: so while that bit works fine, this doesn't propagate "upwards", i. e. everything *depending on* n-o.target won't start
<pitti> i. e. it's the same problem one level up
<didrocks> sure, as it's not an event
<didrocks> it's just "that destination is reached"
<pitti> because fundamentally, when you start a unit, it starts all of its deps, and if anything fails it fails itself too
<didrocks> yep
<pitti> so I was wondering if you have a clever idea about "try to re-start everything which depends on n-o.target" in n-o.target
<pitti> which is arguably turning the design upside down, but I wondered if it's possible
<pitti> as that's basically what you need to trigger units on hardware
<didrocks> I guess from the dbus API, we can list all failed units and redo the logicâ¦
<didrocks> but then, you have the rdepends on the rdependsâ¦
<didrocks> and so on
<didrocks> sounds hackish
<didrocks> so, that would mean:
<didrocks> - listing failed units, check the reason and that they Requires/Wants n-o.target
<didrocks> - restarts them
<pitti> didrocks: well, instead of re-triggering, it would be enough to not fail into dep-wait, but instead just wait (with a timeout) until your requirements become ready
<didrocks> - check if there was no rdepends on those units
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, doing all that is crazy, and a "you don't want to do that", I think
<didrocks> so n-o.target waiting forever?
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<didrocks> the waiting would be better
<pitti> didrocks: so, yesterday I finally gave up and opted for a very simple "waiting" solution
<didrocks> as it's really what you want to express
<pitti> didrocks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9787017/
<didrocks> the target isn't really ready until all interfaces are up
 * didrocks looks
<pitti> didrocks: it's basically what {NetworkManager,systemd-networkd}-wait-online.service do -- these services wait until the network is up, then exit, and then the unit is started
<didrocks> +TimeoutStartSec=2min -> the issue of course, is that you have to quantifyâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: ^ the 2 mins is to copy the  behaviour of /etc/init/networking
<pitti> ... .conf
<pitti> (default is 1.5min, which would certainly work too, but that's just a detail..)
<didrocks> well, better to express it explicitely
<didrocks> TBH, the wait solution is the less hackish to me
<didrocks> as it's really what you want to express
<pitti> didrocks: so, I don't find that very elegant, with the polling loop
<pitti> but in essence, I think it fits the design best, and mirrors what the other "implementations" of n-o.t do
<didrocks> pitti: can't we have a simple daemon receiving some udev events?
<didrocks> instead of polling
<pitti> didrocks: that's not enough
<pitti> ifup'ing an interface doesn't send out uevents
<pitti> ifup is ... special
<didrocks> ahâ¦ :)
<pitti> you actually have to ask ifquery whether an interface is up
<pitti> that's the only guaranteed way
<didrocks> ok, hence being bound to polling
<pitti> you can't even rely on ifup's exit status (debian bug 773539), but that wouldn't help that much either
<ubot5> Debian bug 773539 in ifupdown "ifupdown: Please return exit status 1 when up command fails (unconfigured interface affects network-manager)" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/773539
<pitti> didrocks: so, I think it's an ok way to get the correct behaviour (I tested it in a VM pretty extensively), it's just not terribly elegant
<didrocks> yeah, and we can't really get that in a dependency fashion to reevaluate it
<pitti> now the only question is whether we want n-o.target to fail after two mins (by instsalling it into network-online.target.requires/) or to succeed after two mins (by installing it into network-online.target.wants/)
<pitti> so far under upstart we have a "fallback mode" which boots the system anyway after 2 mins, so I went with wants/ for now
<pitti> which means, whoopsie whould start after 2 mins if an interface fails
<pitti> which for most applications is probably what we want -- the standard case is to wait for all ifaces so that you can bind on all network addresses
<pitti> i. e. for old-skool servers which don't react to hotplugged interfaces
<pitti> didrocks: so, if you don't have a better idea either, I guess I'll go with that ifupdown patch?
<didrocks> I'm trying to think about it
<didrocks> give me 15 minutes, I'm experimenting something
<pitti> cat <<EOF | sudo tee /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth42.cfg
<pitti> auto eth42
<pitti> iface eth42 inet static
<pitti>         address 192.168.2.42
<pitti> EOF
<pitti> didrocks: ^ that's what I did to add a non-existing interface at boot
<pitti> sudo ip link add name eth42 type veth peer name veth42
<pitti> and that's how you bring it up after boot
<didrocks> thanks! trying with this
<pitti> (another day of yaying for super-quick throw-away VMs, thank you QEMU!)
<didrocks> heh, indeed!
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, forget about it, this isn't going to workâ¦
<didrocks> however, thinking about it, why wouldn't we create another target?
<didrocks> like network-online.target -> at least, one interface is up
<didrocks> network-online-all.target (or whatever)
<pitti> didrocks: I had a version of the generator with creating ifup-all-auto.target and adding deps there, but that makes the problem worse
<didrocks> that way, we don't delay the whoopsie startup
<pitti> well, the problem isn't delaying the woopsie startup -- it's not starting it up at all if not all ifaces are ready at boot
<didrocks> as most of services only need "some connexion"
<pitti> of course whoopsie is just my usual test guinea pig -- whoopsie doesn't actually need a n-o.target dep
<pitti> (i. e. you have to hack its .service to add this)
<didrocks> hum, why would we want to start it without network connection?
<pitti> didrocks: as for "why do services want to delay their startup until all interfaces are up", that's a different discussion
<pitti> servers usually bind to all available interfaces during startup
<pitti> and if you bring up an interface later, they won't automatically bind to that
<pitti> unless they listen to udev and re-bind, etc.
<didrocks> you think it's the majority? I would say it's the minority actually
<pitti> didrocks: so whether to have different targets for both cases is of course also something which we can discuss
<pitti> but it still has the same problem
<didrocks> and if we explicitely divide that in 2 targets, we can have one succeeding, and the other one failing
<pitti> a direct "hardware comes up" -> "start a unit" link is easy
<pitti> add a SYSTEMD_WANTS=foo.service in an udev rule
<pitti> but putting any indirection in between seems hard
<pitti> like, make that uevent activate a service which implements a target
<pitti> well, I guess I'll re-send that to the upstream ML
<didrocks> I'm a little uneasy if we are making it failing if any interface doesn't come up to basically say "there is no network at all"
<didrocks> but I can see you want to know itâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: well, that's how stuff has worked for years in Ubuntu with the upstart jobs
<pitti> and they do time out after 2 mins and start anyway after that
<pitti> stgraber wrote that as at early boot, when /etc/init/networking.conf (or /etc/init.d/networking) runs, often some interfaces aren't ready yet on big servers
<didrocks> so, even on upstart, we didn't retrigger an event to say "there is more interfaces, please reevaluate"
<didrocks> are*
<pitti> didrocks: and this only applies to services which explicitly depend on network-online.target (which isn't actually a lot; but they did come up during porting)
<pitti> didrocks: we did
<pitti> net-device-up <NAME>
<didrocks> ah, so, we restarted let's say apacheâ¦ as a consequence (or reload)
<pitti> but we already have that -- the uevent, plus the systemd .device unit
<pitti> didrocks: correct; look at e. g. /etc/network/if-up.d/openssh-server
<pitti> didrocks: that restarts openssh on new interfaces
<pitti> and that's the correct way to do it
<didrocks> ah, but we are getting that in a non systemd way
<didrocks> but with those specific rules
<didrocks> in /etc/network/if-up.d/
<didrocks> yeah, kind of making sense
<pitti> but we need the "static-networking-up" (upstart), respectively network-online.target for "old-skool" servers which aren't designed for hotplugging, but just for a server world of static interfaces
<didrocks> yeah, I think your approach is good enough for most of the case anyway
<pitti> i. e. where you just want to extend the notion of "boot" a bit
<didrocks> right
<pitti> it's not a clearly defined semantics anyway, I mostly wanted to mirror what we do on upstart
<pitti> it gets you a little closer to the old "static" world where you define stuff in /e/n/i and assume it's there
<pitti> for a desktop it's entirely a no-op
<didrocks> I think that would be an interesting case, where "boot" isn't an answer for those, for the systemd hackfest
<didrocks> we do have your solution which is mostly working (as you told, no-op on desktop, mirroring what we did on server)
<didrocks> but maybe we can really look how to pull that further and be more dynamic
<pitti> yeah
<didrocks> did you discuss about it with Lennart already?
<pitti> didrocks: only very quickly, but I think I explained it wrongly; I'll re-explain it on the ML
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<didrocks> tricky!
<pitti> "how to make hardware activated targets" basically
<didrocks> I think the "force reevaluating" is maybe an answer
<pitti> didrocks: right, and that works fine for re-evaluating network-online.target itself, through the extra "Wants" in the ifup@.service
<pitti> but not for its rdepends
<didrocks> yeah, I more "reevaluating all failed-units"
<didrocks> meant*
<didrocks> like, it can be a keyword as part of the transaction
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I'll update you on plymouth/fsck, back in 5 if you don't mind?
<pitti> didrocks: sure!
<pitti> didrocks: I need to leave for a doctor appt. in ~ 20 mins FYI
<pitti> takes about 30 mins
<pitti> 1 min to get the allergy shot, and 30 mins sitting there reading the news, in case something goes wrong
<pitti> (never happened, but oh well, they insist)
 * pitti goes back to testing ubuntu CD insertion with update-notifier, to fix its upstart job
<pitti> ugh CDs, who has them still?
 * pitti plays with QEMU hot-adding virtual drives
<darkxst> how does one plug a CD into qemu ;)
<pitti> by squeezing really hard!
<pitti> you can add an empty drive with -drive if=ide,index=1,media=cdrom
<pitti> and send a monitor command to insert a "medium" (from an image), which I'm currently RTFMing about
<darkxst> pitti, or just melt the CD and plug it into the USB port ;)
 * didrocks back
<pitti> actually, -drive media=cdrom is enough
<didrocks> pitti: I really think that if systemd internals can reevaluate (not restart), but retry failing jobs and only try restarting one path that makes sense with the new state of the worldâ¦
<didrocks> let's see what upstream thinks about it
<didrocks> pitti: ok, so on fsck/plymouth
<pitti> yeah, something for the hackfest
<didrocks> I have multiple systemd-fsck process talking to one central systemd-fsckd
<didrocks> and systemd-fsckd talking to plymouth
<didrocks> I hacked our ubuntu logo theme to get those info
<didrocks> which means:
<didrocks> - systemd grows a dep on plymouth
<didrocks> - I factorized plymouth communication in the shared static lib
<didrocks> I have to update the text theme + xubuntu and such to this new protocol
<didrocks> also, there are some fixes for some corner cases, like reconnecting if plymouth respawn
<didrocks> I'm stuck on i18n though
<pitti> didrocks: you mean libplymouth, right? or plymouth the daemon?
<didrocks> libplymouth
<mlankhorst> morning :P
<pitti> didrocks: oh, plymouthd crashing in the middle of fsck'ing, and you can survive that?
<pitti> hey mlankhorst, how are you?
<didrocks> hey mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> hey I'm good :-)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, right now, I survive, but I don't reconnect to the new one
<pitti> ambitious!
<didrocks> well, shouldn't be too hard, like a 20 minutes job testing included :)
<didrocks> so yeah, then adding the .services, writing manpagesâ¦
<didrocks> I'm just worried about this i18n
<pitti> darkxst: ah, awesome! FTR: change ide0-cd0 /home/martin/Downloads/ubuntu/vivid-desktop-amd64.iso
<didrocks> - the first version of plymouth theme (the code is still there, just not in use) did create the string shown to the user
<darkxst> pitti, given I don't have a functioning cd drive, melting might work better ;)
<didrocks> - then, mountall sent the translation as part of the message and that's what is used with upstart nowdays
<pitti> darkxst: it's all virtual :) (I don't have a physical CD drive either)
<didrocks> - systemd doesn't have any i18n facilityâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: oh, you mean s-fsckd will already generate the strings, not the theme
<didrocks> it seems it makes sense to do that on systemd-side, but maybe different themes wants different message to display and we just send the metadata?
<pitti> didrocks: systemd does have i18n
<didrocks> the theme doesn't support i18n either
<didrocks> hum, really?
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, mostly for the .policy files (polkit)
<pitti> didrocks: but also for the CLI tools
<darkxst> pitti, CD's are a physical media that can't be virtualised ;) iso's on the other can ;)
<didrocks> pitti: I did only see the policy files, which is different, not the CLI tools
 * didrocks looks
<pitti> didrocks: oh right
<didrocks> yeah, regrepped and nothing
<pitti> didrocks: I guess there's something to be said to leave the representation to the theme
<pitti> some themes might want this entirely graphical, or on really small screens or whatever
<didrocks> pitti: I agree, that's the current implmentation
<didrocks> but!
<didrocks> .script doesn't seem to support i18n
<didrocks> not an issue for the C themes of course, but our main one is a scriptâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: hmm, if themes don't suppor that, how do we i18n this today?
<didrocks> pitti: as told, that was put into mountall which send the strings to the theme
<pitti> eww, yes
<didrocks> as part of the message
<pitti> didrocks: and "script" can't call shell tools like "gettext", I suppose?
<didrocks> which sounds wrong to me
<pitti> yes, it is
<didrocks> I didn't try, didn't see that in practice
 * didrocks looks for example, but theme documentation is really thin
<didrocks> yeah, nothing obvious at least
 * pitti looks at themes/ubuntu-logo/ubuntu-logo.script
<didrocks> pitti: btw, as told, I tried to be minimal in my patch in the theme, meaning, I don't touch most of the rest of the logic
<didrocks> but there is a lot of already dead code due to design changes
<didrocks> (like the progress bars)
<didrocks> and all the fsck logic was there
<pitti> didrocks: hm, I can't imagine why plymouth themes wouldn't have their own text/i18n, but maybe they did design it like that, that clients have to create the strings
<pitti> didrocks: adding i18n to fsckd doesn't seem much of a problem really; add it to po/POTFILES.in and use glibc's gettext
<pitti> but I wonder if that's the right design
<pitti> well, obviously it's the current design
<didrocks> pitti: I don't think it is as it means, we are forcing upon each themes our strings
<didrocks> well, forcing/proposing :)
<didrocks> (as we can keep, as of today, the metadata as well)
<pitti> didrocks: need to run for appointment, back in 30; but I guess for now let's put the strings into fsckd then?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah :/
<didrocks> pitti: just to be complete on the fsck question: we won't implement the question about "your partition is broken, do you want to fix it?" as systemd-fsck force repair by default
<didrocks> I need to implement the escape feedback though
<pitti> at least with that themes don't have to copy&paste the fsck messages
<didrocks> like you press escape -> cancel all fsck jobs
<pitti> right
<pitti> we mostly just need the "checking, NN%  done" and maybe the cancel
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> so, doing the escape first
<didrocks> and text theme, should be easy
<didrocks> i18n -> I'm quite "sad" :/
<didrocks> hum, ubuntu-text never supported fsck messages
 * didrocks wonders if it worths it to add that now (it's in C)
<willcooke> good morning all
<pitti> hey willcooke
<pitti> didrocks: hm, we install that on servers, right?
<pitti> didrocks: but if fsckd sends the messages, wouldn't -text get that automatically?
<Laney> hallo
<didrocks> pitti: we install that on the client as well, it's shown when you have nvidia cards
<didrocks> pitti: and no, there is no room for "update" message into that theme
<didrocks> (like no sprite placement)
<pitti> oh, ok
<willcooke> Laney, bad news...
<willcooke> Laney, no tenner found.
<didrocks> pitti: the one on the right: http://i.stack.imgur.com/EPKXz.png
<Laney> willcooke: oh well, I'll take that raise then
<willcooke> I might be in the office this week, I'll be sure to check down the back of the sofa in reception for your "raise"
<Laney> :-)
<didrocks> hum, can't get the disconnect signal from plymouth :/
<didrocks> pitti: I'm unsure that we tested disconnection from plymouth in a long time
<didrocks> the issue is that the even loop is stuck, and so is the daemonâ¦
<didrocks> I'm checking what we are doing in casper or mountall, and it seems to be the same though
<seb128> Laney, hey, btw it seems the upower transition was a redherring on that sleep issue on the device
<pitti> didrocks: I'm unsure that we tested anythign in plymouth recently :/
<pitti> it's quite a bit of a bitrot case
<pitti> didrocks: i. e. our current approach is to hope that plymouth won't crash? :/
<didrocks> pitti: seems so, if it does, I'm pretty sure mountall or md5check is stuck
<didrocks> pitti: we have a disconnect handler, bound
<didrocks> but it's only trigger from plymouth code on ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()
<didrocks> triggered*
<Laney> seb128: oh yeah?
<didrocks> which we already use of course to send the update to plymouth
<didrocks> but if plymouth quits, ply_event_loop_process_pending_events() is stuck
<didrocks> I guess I have to printf in plymouth to see where it's stuckâ¦
<seb128> Laney, yeah, apparently the issue is not easy to trigger and the testing is a bit flacky/make difficult to confirm what image is good or not
<seb128> Laney, seems all images get the issue in some random ways
<Laney> so we're not sure if it even got worse?
<pitti> didrocks: erk, that's awful; i. e. whenever plymouth would crash (and it does that a lot), essentially the whole boot is stuck
<seb128> Laney, seems not
<didrocks> pitti: I'm still unsure, can be me not doing something right, but I can't see the immediate issue and the difference I would have with mountall or md5check
<didrocks> so printf time!
<pitti> didrocks: yuck! I hope it gets captured in the journal :)
<didrocks> pitti: let's seeâ¦ I feel it's going to be a "fun" day
<pitti> didrocks: uploading ifupdown now; it's all static files, so we can always improve this stuff
 * pitti documents that on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemdForUpstartUsers
<Laney> seb128: btw, you went offline when I tried to reply to you yesterday then I forgot - yes, taking care of poppler
<seb128> Laney, great, thanks
<seb128> yeah, I did some unity8 playing with which got me out of IRC for a while
<didrocks> ah, I think I got the plymouth hangups
 * didrocks tries something
<didrocks> \o/
<seb128> got to the bottom of it?
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> basically, you need to attach the event listener after you are connected to plymouth
<didrocks> which may creates a race, and that's why I did the other way around
<didrocks> but in that case, it doesn't reregister the disconnection handler
<didrocks> and then, next listen on the queue just hangs
<didrocks> it's tricky, because if you attach the listener before you connect to plymouth, all events are passed well
<didrocks> apart from the disconnectionâ¦
<didrocks> I see that casper-md5check does the same than I did btw
<didrocks> so I guess the process would hang if plymouth crashes
 * didrocks adds a TODO
<didrocks> pitti: FYI ^
<didrocks> seb128: the issue is that the plymouth code is copying the reference at attach time, instead of refering directly to the object
<seb128> didrocks, is that still in context of the fsck integration to plymouth?
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> why?
<seb128> just curious, I didn't follow closely the issue, trying to make sense of what you describe
<pitti> didrocks: "other way round"? you can attach to a listener before connecting? anyway, I'm afraid I know next to nothing about it, so great that you found it!
<didrocks> pitti: yep! Cleaning up the code base and then trying multiple plymouth reconnect
<Sweet5hark> jcastro: I heard you do lobbying in europe now: https://cdt.org/staff/jorge-castro/
<jcastro> hah, good to know
<didrocks> ok, now, can reconnect to any new plymouth connexion and resend last update \o/
 * pitti ^5s didrocks
 * didrocks ^5s back
<didrocks> ok, so control+C now
<didrocks> then, will remain i18n and the "what to do with the text theme?"
<Laney> seb128: poppler in NEW if you have a few minutes to look
<willcooke> seb128, all - might be 5 mins late for the meeting again, school run.  Should be back in time though...
<seb128> Laney, sure
<seb128> wk
<seb128> willcooke, k
<Laney> ty
<willcooke> back
<desrt> mmmmmmm
<desrt> mmmmmmmmmmmm
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan 20 15:31:25 2015 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v | Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20 | Current topic:
<desrt> meeting!
<willcooke> Roll call coming up....
<didrocks> <loading>
<desrt> <pleasewait>
<qengho> DIALING...
<willcooke> attente_, desrt, dgadomski_ didrocks, FJKong , happyaron , Laney larsu mlankhorst qengho seb128 Sweet5hark
<dgadomski_> hello everyone o/
<desrt> here :)
<didrocks> hey!
<FJKong> hey
<seb128> _o/
<Sweet5hark> o/
<larsu> yep
<willcooke> lets do this thing
<willcooke> #topic attente_
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v | Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20 | Current topic: attente_
<attente_> hi
<attente_> not much to report, did some more testing for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1408593 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1409133
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1408593 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "X server disables acceleartion or turns off output (makes screen black) after kernel upgrade to v3.18 (Ubuntu Vivid)" [High,Confirmed]
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1409133 in linux (Ubuntu) "Heavy black flickering after VT switching on Intel Ironlake Mobile." [High,Confirmed]
<attente_> tried switching over to using the new mir menu api, but blocked on lack of support in the demo shell, looked into adding it
<desrt> attente_: did you see that popovers in gtk are using wayland subsurfaces now?
<desrt> probably worth seeing if they can be done the same way on mir
<desrt> would be nice to have a feature that works better in mir than it does in x11 ;)
<attente_> you mean implementing subsurfaces in mir?
<desrt> i was thinking that the menu positioning stuff is really just the same as subsurfaces, no?
<desrt> ie: a new surface that is related to and has a relative position to another existing surface but is not necessarily clipped by it
<attente_> the api adds some extra stuff to determine where to position the surface if it overflows outside of the screen though
<larsu> attente_: I've started looking into gtk mir too. I'll help out starting very soon
<larsu> attente_: let me know if you need something specific (if not, let's talk at the sprint)
<desrt> attente_: ya... i'm sure it won't be 1:1 easy... but probably worth looking into it to see how it can be done... maybe it needs some more changes in mir, maybe not
<desrt> would be good to know that ahead of the sprint week
<larsu> mir has a "menu" api?
<desrt> just an api for positioning menu-like windows
<attente_> yeah
<desrt> not gmenumodel or anything, if that's what you're thinking :)
<attente_> but tbh i don't think gtk needs it
<seb128> larsu, https://code.launchpad.net/~albaguirre/mir/add-menu-api/+merge/244632
<attente_> because gtk seems to adjust the position inside the screen itself
<larsu> desrt: no I wasn't thinking that. Just sounded a bit too specific for a window manager
<larsu> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> yw :-)
<desrt> rule 1) window managers must not handle menus
<desrt> rule 2) feel free to violate rule 1, as long as you write it in javascript
<larsu> desrt: seems like gerry was against this (in addition to other people)
<attente_> should we ask them to revert that api?
<desrt> er wait what?
<larsu> attente_: no, looks like there was quite a bit of discussion around it
 * larsu trusts that they came to some kind of consensus
<attente_> because gtk is already fixing the position of the menus itself
<seb128> seems like the sort of topic better to discuss in Brussels
<desrt> ya...
<larsu> ya
 * desrt is a bit surprised to be hearing this now
<willcooke> ok cool
<seb128> desrt, it landed less than a week ago
<willcooke> I will add this topic to my list of Brussels things
<desrt> seb128: ya.  i know.  i was kinda assuming that it didn't suck.
<seb128> willcooke, good idea
<willcooke> one sec while I add it....
<willcooke> (otherwise I will forget)
 * Sweet5hark is available as an adjutant for duels in bruessels
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v | Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> hi
<desrt> not lots to say.  still working on file monitors
<desrt> this turned into quite a large job
<desrt> plus the usual bugs/reviewing/etc. stuff has been keeping me from it a bit
<desrt> the good news is that they work.  the bad news is that the branch is in an ugly state and needs to be cleaned up and there are surely some bugs left to fix
<desrt> that's all
<willcooke> thanks desrt
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski_
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v | Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20 | Current topic: dgadomski_
<dgadomski_> This week in the widely understood around-desktop area it was:
<dgadomski_> * established a working setup for testing bug #1104230, solved 2 problems, continuing debugging, new kernel build available in ppa:dgadomski/linux-mst
<ubot5> bug 1104230 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "DisplayPort 1.2 MST support is missing in the Intel driver" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1104230
<dgadomski_> * got positive feedback on fix to bug #1020210, got it sponsored, waiting for it being reviewed and land in -proposed
<ubot5> bug 1020210 in eglibc (Ubuntu Precise) "Race condition using ATOMIC_FASTBINS in _int_free causes crash or heap corruption" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020210
<dgadomski_> * still working on implementation to fix bug #1337873
<ubot5> bug 1337873 in ifupdown (Ubuntu) "Precise, Trusty, Utopic - ifupdown initialization problems caused by race condition" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1337873
<dgadomski_> * thanks to cyphermox I was able to move forward with bug #1410779, waiting for more feedback from the user
<ubot5> bug 1410779 in bluez (Ubuntu) "Bluetooth adapter is not working in Ubuntu 14.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1410779
<dgadomski_> * following upstream decisions regarding the future of bug #445333
<ubot5> bug 445333 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu Trusty) "remember password on printing to windows printers does not work" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445333
<dgadomski_> EOF
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski_ - do you need anything from us right now?
<dgadomski_> no, thanks, I'm ok currently :)
<willcooke> cool
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v | Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> Ubuntu Make:
<didrocks> * Reviewing IDEA (non community) edition integration into Ubuntu Make
<didrocks> * Get jayatana installed by default (pulled by appmenu package)
<didrocks> Systemd:
<didrocks> * systemd sprint, continues converting a bunch of packages: powernap, lxc-android-config, conmux, bluetooth-touch, mosquitto, edubuntu-server
<didrocks> * pair with Martin to get a crude version of Ubuntu Touch to be started under systemd. We can even ssh to it now and get Unity8 running \o/ Still some work needed for a lot of jobs to run.
<didrocks> * discussed about the android property bridge and did some testing/debugging on it.
<didrocks> * finish fsck daemons all connecting to fsckd, and get fsckd talking to plymouth + change plymouth (ubuntu logo) theme. Still some opened questions before integrating that to systemd upstream like where to put i18nâ¦ Need as well Ctrl+C integration.
<didrocks> Misc:
<didrocks> * Helped FJKong debugging some segfaults using qt.
<didrocks> .
<didrocks> (loosing right now some hairs on getting a nice systemd/plymouth integration)
<willcooke> thx didrocks
<desrt> didrocks: excellent job!
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v | Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20 | Current topic: FJKong
<FJKong> * bug tracking: change font size does't works in setting, can't reproduce on my computer
<FJKong> * bug fixing: crash after clicking apply then clicking menu to change skin, fixed it this week
<FJKong> * bug tracking: memory leak when using ImageProvider, processing it
<FJKong> * streghthen skin structure
<FJKong> mainly focusing on fix bugs about sogou
<FJKong> that's all
<willcooke> thanks FJKong
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v | Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> happyaron, might not be around - timeout set at 2 mins.  We can always come back around.
<larsu> timeout. so much pressure.
<qengho> His packets DO have to travel pretty far.
<larsu> haha indeed
 * Sweet5hark gets the pressure feels too.
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v | Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> â¢ Split a-i-t. Need to move reverse-deps of gnome-icon-theme over
<Laney> â¢ Fix oslo-config upgrade SNAFU
<Laney> â¢ yelp crash fix
<Laney> â¢ evolution point release, SRU this to utopic too
<Laney> â¢ new vala, contains binding security fix so rebuild affected rdeps
<Laney> â¢ new webkitgtk, build problem, propose a fix upstream
<Laney> â¢ new gtk+3.0, also some chat about a security fix in trusty
<Laney> â¢ Get dose-distcheck deployed to the transition tracker to fix parsing error there
<Laney> â¢ poppler 0.30.0, will be a transition. also SRU a fix for some ligatures not displaying correctly to utopic and trusty
<Laney> â¢ Start DMB election nomination period
<Laney> â¢ Some poking flavours about alpha 2 which is meant to be this week, might cancel it due to lack of help
<Laney> â¢ Get sponsor queue to display ubuntu-desktop branches
<Laney> â
<willcooke> thx Laney
<desrt> Laney: new glib too
<Laney> oh yes
<desrt> with your NM Stuff...
<Laney> https://packages.qa.debian.org/g/glib2.0/news/20150120T153405Z.html
<willcooke> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v | Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20 | Current topic: larsu
<larsu> hey!
<larsu> * theme finally doesn't depend on unico anymore
<didrocks> \o/
<desrt> larsu just won the meeting
<seb128> larsu, I've been running your branch, didn't notice any issue/difference
<desrt> next he's going to tell us overlay scrollbars are dead or something
<larsu> * more theme fixes for spinners, some backgrounds, etc
<larsu> * also lots of cleanup (removed unused rules and files)
<larsu> seb128: nice! There's another one as well. Would be cool if we could merge them soon
<larsu> seb128: thanks
<larsu> desrt: not yet, though I've played around backporting the upstream ones
<seb128> great, we should probably put those in a silo when you feel like they are ready for landing
<desrt> larsu: "we need to talk...."
<larsu> desrt: I think we should just wait though. Just one cycle is not worth the hassle
<larsu> seb128: can you please do that? You have the power ;)
<larsu> desrt: _we_ do?
<desrt> larsu: yes.  protocol violation here
<seb128> larsu, if you are happy with your current work and want to land it, sure
<desrt> don't waste time backporting when you're gonna see laney in a couple of weeks
<desrt> just make sure you have enough money in your beer fund
<larsu> seb128: yes please - thanks
<Laney> correct
<larsu> haha
<larsu> slippy-finger time!
<larsu> anyhow:
<larsu> * started looking into gtk/mir to be able to jump into it at the hackfest
<seb128> I'm happy to drink beers with you guys while Laney fixes the issue with the new GTK he just slipped in :p
<desrt> sounds like we're gonna need a bigger beer fund...
<willcooke> :)
<larsu> * oh and looked into the volume slider event issue (thanks didrocks). Got a fix but don't know why it works
<willcooke> I'll look down the back of the Canonical sofa
<Laney> plenty of issues to go around guys
<Laney> we can have a lucky dip
<didrocks> larsu: that's the best fixes :)
<willcooke> once Laney has his pay rise there should still be plenty to go around
<seb128> haha
<desrt> we're all going to need a pay raise to cover our keeping seb in a tranquil state
<larsu> for some reason event coordinates don't need to be mapped to the slider's allocation anymore
<Laney> he means because the numbers will start to overflow the bank's integers
<seb128> didrocks, is the issue that the cursor is shifted from the actual position activated when you click?
<larsu> I can't find a relevant commit in gtk
<didrocks> seb128: right!
<didrocks> when you drag as wellâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, k, I noticed that as well
<larsu> not sure if bisecting is needed or if we can just use the fix I have and dtop thinking about it
<didrocks> which is even more puzzling to my brain ;
<Laney> that's been on the pad for weeks already
<didrocks> :)
<Laney> why is random pinging necessary?
<qengho> Laney: you hope they're unsigned types.
<Laney> just as long as the cheques are signed
<willcooke> larsu, ok to move on?
<larsu> willcooke: yep, that's it
<willcooke> thanks larsu
<willcooke> #topic mlankhorst
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v | Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20 | Current topic: mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> harassing people in #ubuntu-release without much success
<mlankhorst> updating the vmware and intel packages in the x-staging ppa for 1.17 (waiting on fglrx)
<mlankhorst> adding rotation and 2x option to xmir-standalone
<mlankhorst> resend glamor patches to xorg-devel ml
<mlankhorst> regression test and upload mesa 10.4.2 to vivid
<mlankhorst> upload and verify xserver-xorg-video-intel sru's with rotation fixes
<mlankhorst> upload new xserver-xorg-video-vmware to archive after testing
<willcooke> great stuff, thanks mlankhorst.
<willcooke> Any luck today with #ubuntu-release?
<mlankhorst> nope :P
<didrocks> mlankhorst: did you try direct ping as suggested?
<mlankhorst> just a silent echo
<mlankhorst> I 'll try that next, but usually that channel is more active
<mlankhorst> raof accepted some packages, but I had some discussion about the ones not in yet though i havent had a reply rom him since
<willcooke> he's on the other side of the world isn't he?
<willcooke> mlankhorst, if you dont have any luck by EOD tomorrow, let's revisit
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v | Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> - In Cr, fixed bugs like search-suggestions and DRI3/sandbox backport.
<qengho> - Worked on connecting Cr to mir. I may need help with today's problem. I'll ask here once I try some more.
<qengho> And that's mostly it. Some debugging of a crash in unity8, but that got nowhere.
<willcooke> thanks qengho
<seb128> qengho, is chromium updated soon?
<seb128> qengho, you said the next update would be around now and would adress that bug that tops e.u.c
<qengho> seb128: I said in about two weeks, which is still a week away.
<seb128> oh ok, I though it was 2 meetings ago
<seb128> all good then ;-)
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v | Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> * had some vac days
<seb128> * helped moving some SRUs forward (updated patches, triaged bugs, verified some fixes)
<seb128> * a bit of sponsoring
<seb128> * backported a fix to rtm to make the "reply" hint in indicator-message translated
<seb128> * spent some time reading documentation and playing with unity8, current desktop-next session, systemd
<seb128> * usual share of desktop related bugs triage and discussions
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v | Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> - checked prerequs. and submitted MIRs for libabw, libe-book, libeot, libetoneyek, libfreehand, libmwaw, libodfgen to ubuntu-mir team for approval -- bug 1410866 and bug 1410883
<Sweet5hark> - blogged about the (small) writer performance improvements: https://skyfromme.wordpress.com/2015/01/15/swnodeindex-ludicious-speed/
<Sweet5hark> - various trackers/issues grinding
<Sweet5hark> - remerging from Debian (ongoing)
<Sweet5hark> - new upstream LibreOffice 4.4.0~rc3 due this week (tag expected ~today)
<Sweet5hark> - some upstream patch review
<Sweet5hark> - upstream admistration tasks (meh)
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<ubot5> bug 1410866 in Ubuntu Weather App "Autopilot tests fail with AttributeError: Class 'AppHeader' has no attribute '_show_if_not_visible'." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1410866
<ubot5> bug 1410883 in libodfgen (Ubuntu) "[MIR] multiple LibreOffice dependencies in universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1410883
<willcooke> thx Sweet5hark
<willcooke> #topic themuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v | Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20 | Current topic: themuso
<willcooke> * Exclusively been working on bug #1066157, and have determined that unity is using deprecated methods/signals in atk, so am now going through unity a11y code checking all methods/signals, and checking whether they are still valid. There may be more things to fix to resolve this bug, but I think this will go a long way to getting us there.
<ubot5> bug 1066157 in unity (Ubuntu) "dash +orca does not speak the names of application icons" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066157
<willcooke> #topic any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v | Desktop Weekly Team Meeting 2015-01-20 | Current topic: any other business
<willcooke> Dont think there is much else
<seb128> seems not
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan 20 16:23:17 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2015/ubuntu-desktop.2015-01-20-15.31.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<seb128> qengho, found back the IRC log btw, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/01/08/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t16:37
<seb128> qengho, that was not previous week but the week before ;-)
<Sweet5hark> looking for forward to see you guys soon in cafe delirium ...
<larsu> Sweet5hark: !
<Laney> Was a bit busy for me last time ...
<desrt> ya
<desrt> i'm starting to get tired of going to this place :)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, btw I lost track, but is there any libreoffice work I'm supposed to upload for you and that I didn't do?
<didrocks> desrt: come on, it's your second venue to FOSDEM only IIRC :)
<desrt> might be better to buy a case of beer from elsewhere and bring it to the alleyway :)
<larsu> 3rd
<larsu> desrt: wegbier!
<desrt> 3rd?  seems more like 4th or 5th
<larsu> desrt: at least 3rd (I was there the last two years and you were there)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: rechecking ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, danke
<desrt> codethink had some hackfests in brussels around fosdem time
<qengho> seb128: I expect a upstream release in the next few days, but after patching/building/testing, it will be next week before it's ready to upload.
<seb128> qengho, ok, fair enough, looking forward the update still ;-)
<qengho> :)
<qengho> Me too!
<Sweet5hark> seb128: hmm, I dont see LibreOffice 4.2.8 in trusty-proposed nor in the trusty queue: http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/trusty/4.2.8/
<Sweet5hark> seb128: ... and I will throw some 4.4.0 rc at you in the next days, I guess.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, ok, I think that's the one which was missing SRU info, you added those and I didn't have another look
<seb128> k, sounds good
<seb128> I'm going to have another look to the SRU one
<Sweet5hark> seb128: great thanks so much! as for vivid -- no other upload. Precise: yeah, Id guess we need to do something there at some point -- lets talk in brussels on that if possible.
<seb128> ok
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yes, 4.2.8 now has a bug ID in the changes ...
<didrocks> oh my! /me found a way easier way (and remove last hour of work :/)
<desrt> didrocks: on the scale of replace-oneself-with-a-script experiences, an hour of wasted effort is actually pretty low :)
<didrocks> desrt: indeed, especially counting that I remove many lines, a hashmap I was handling manually and so force in the process :)
<didrocks> it's one of those things when you are writing code, thinking "it sucks", and suddenly, when you gave up on thinking on another solution, it just comes to your mindâ¦
<pitti> argh, Sweetshark is already gone ;/ wanted to say happy bday
 * didrocks waves good evening
 * willcooke EOD
<tedg> robert_ancell, Am I correct to assume that you'll land the indicator-bluetooth bz5 MR when you've got the whole transition ready?
<robert_ancell> tedg, yes
<tedg> robert_ancell, Cool, any idea of time? Guessing it has to be relatively soon for FF coming up.
<robert_ancell> tedg, I'm not sure what the plan is. didrocks was managing the transition. I'm just doing the grunt work for the indicator
<tedg> Ah, okay.
<tedg> Grunt away! ;-)
<Sweet5hark> mterry: as a trusty main inclusion request man: do you see any obvious troubles with bug 1410883 or bug 1410966?
<ubot5> bug 1410883 in libodfgen (Ubuntu) "[MIR] multiple LibreOffice dependencies in universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1410883
<ubot5> bug 1410966 in libeot (Ubuntu) "[MIR] multiple LibreOffice dependencies in universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1410966
<mterry> Sweet5hark, ah, I haven't looked at those yet.  It's near eod for me, mind if I look at them tomorrow?
<Sweet5hark> mterry: no worries, not too urgent...
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-01-21
<excalibr> Hi. can you give me some pointers. Im looking for way how to execute .desktop file from my py app. Ive tried calling xdg-open but that ended up opening the .desktop in text editor. Can you tell me how Unity shell (dash/launchers) launches apps .desktop?
<darkxst> excalibr, you don't execute the desktop file
<darkxst> Laney, a-i-t drops the legacy icon name maps (as listed in icon-naming-utils), will probably cause some missing icons around the place
<excalibr> darkxst, how I'm supposed to launch it?
<excalibr> the proper way
<darkxst> excalibr, what are you trying to do? the shell parses the desktop files to read the meta-data
<darkxst> if you want unity to launch your app, then you just need to make a desktop file and put it in the right place
<excalibr> darkxst, sorry I wasnt clear enought. I want to call an external app through its .desktop from my py app
<darkxst> excalibr, glib has api for working with desktop files
<darkxst> g_desktop_appinfo_* maybe
<darkxst> https://developer.gnome.org/gio/stable/gio-Desktop-file-based-GAppInfo.html#g-desktop-app-info-launch-action
<excalibr> ok many thanks :)
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<didrocks> re seb128!
<seb128> lut didrocks ;-)
<didrocks> and medium tests pass \o/
 * didrocks git push
<pitti> bonjour mes amis franÃ§ais, comment avez-vous ?
<larsu> bonjour pitti!
<seb128> salut pitti, Ã§a va bien ! et toi ?
<larsu> oh wait, I'm not even French
<pitti> ... et mes amis allemands aussi, bien sÃ»r ! :-)
<didrocks> hello pitti
<pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
 * didrocks was feeling lonely this morning on the channel :)
<larsu> pitti: gut danke!
<pitti> didrocks: pardon, j'ai perdu ton "bonjour" -- I ignored IRC, but I now landed  the sysv-generator tests upstream :)
<pitti> and am now fighting with some bugs in it
<didrocks> pitti: saw that, congrats!
 * mpt tries to change his password, and System Settings hangs \o/
<mlankhorst>      morning
<larsu> mpt: woah, there's all kinds of things wrong in that dialog...
<mpt> larsu, like how it pouts âNot strong enoughâ when you havenât even typed anything yet
<larsu> Laney: is this known^ ? I can't change my password at all (button doesn't work), the strength bar is messed up, it shows "not strong enough" even there's no text in it
<mpt> And then reverts to âNot strong enoughâ again when you hit the button to change the password
<larsu> mpt: right...
<larsu> mpt: are you on V?
 * mpt cowers
<larsu> mpt: I can't even hit that button. It's insensitive
<mpt> Iâm on 14.04. Maybe I should upgrade.
<larsu> mpt: woah. Should definitely work there...
<mpt> Even if it wouldnât help in this particular case. :-)
<larsu> haha yeah
<larsu> thanks for letting us know!
<seb128> larsu, what dialog?
 * seb128 feels like he lacks context
<mpt> seb128, itâs a hidden dialog
<mpt> The one for changing your password
<seb128> ah
<larsu> seb128: the change password dialog in u-c-c
<seb128> I see
<seb128> larsu, you can't hit the button because your password is not strong enough
<larsu> seb128: right, but no matter what I type, the strength doesn't fill up (even when letting it fill automatically)
<larsu> also, the strength bar seems to change when typing in "current password"
<larsu> ah, closing and reopening it works
<didrocks> larsu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p85xwZ_OLX0
<larsu> HAHA awesome
 * larsu misses that show
<didrocks> same :)
<willcooke> g'morn
<didrocks> 0118 999 881â¦
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<willcooke> 3
 * didrocks ^5s willcooke
<willcooke> \o/
<seb128> hey willcooke
<larsu> morning willcooke!
<seb128> willcooke, sorry I was out for dinner when you pinged, did you figure out your unity8 issues?
<willcooke> seb128, yeah it just started working :D
 * willcooke keeps paying the witch doctor for his powers
<Laney> hello
<larsu> hi Laney!
<larsu> how goes?
<didrocks> morning Laney
<Laney> there is tea, therefore good
<Laney> biked back home through the snowfall last night, fun
<Laney> was hoping that it might stay but there's not much left now
<Laney> larsu: not familiar with this password issue, sorry, are you looking into it?
<willcooke> Can anyone do the "Ubuntu Engineering Live" hangout today at 1400 UTC?  I have a meeting with Rick then
<larsu> Laney: not yet, but I can
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1318199
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1318199 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Can't change password" [Low,Confirmed]
<Laney> probs that
<darkxst> Laney, can you send me some snow? melting from heat here ;(
<Laney> OK, I'll include a stamped addressed envelope so you can post me some warmth back & then everyone can be happy ...
<willcooke> It's the 21st century guys.
<willcooke> Use email
<pitti> or UUECP (unix to unix energy copy)
<pitti> darn, where did I put the source for that..
<darkxst> willcooke, how would one send snow via email ?
<darkxst> or heat?
<willcooke> darkxst, scan it it
<Laney> zipped
<willcooke> simples
<willcooke> pitti, lol
<darkxst> willcooke, maybe we need 22nd century tech, quantum teleporters!
<willcooke> darkxst, :D
<darkxst> because a picture of snow aint going to cut it right now
<willcooke> hahaha
<willcooke> woooo
<willcooke> X forwarding from the phone
<willcooke> to the desktop
<willcooke> for no reason
<willcooke> but it's fast
<pitti> willcooke: with the new ssh unix port forwarding from utopic?
<pitti> (that's an awesome feature!)
<willcooke> I'm just using good ol' ssh -X atm
<pitti> willcooke: oh, so the phone already has xauth installed? I thought it hadn't
<willcooke> I just installed it
<willcooke> (thanks to mlankhorst )
<pitti> ah, cheating :) (requires r/w phone)
<willcooke> yeah
<pitti> mlankhorst, willcooke: FYI: https://plus.google.com/+MartinPitti/posts/ZVQttN2ft5f
<pitti> should work on an unmodified r/o phone, but requires utopic's ssh
 * willcooke reads
<mlankhorst> ah
<willcooke> nice
<mlankhorst> pitti: yeah but you need some packages installed to run the xserver :P
<pitti> mlankhorst: well, not everyone is running unit8 on their desktop yet :)
<pitti> I'd suppose that almost every developer has X installed on their desktop still :)
<pitti> mlankhorst: NB, will wants to run X apps on the phone and forward them to the desktop's X, not run X on the pone
<mlankhorst> I don't see the usecase in that :P
<mlankhorst> and besides you need xauth on the target machiine, which already has xauth
<pitti> I used it once to run d-feet
<pitti> mlankhorst: maybe, but with ssh -X you also need it on the phone side
<pitti> with forwarding the unix port you don't
<Laney> seb128: poppler re-ping
<seb128> Laney, ups, forgot, done
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> transition time!
<seb128> do you need help with that?
<Laney> nah
<Laney> I already found the inkscape patch required, dunno about others but it'll be fine
<seb128> k
 * Laney watches the flames appear on the horizon
 * didrocks can do with some flames to heat up the atmosphere
<willcooke> I love spending an hour editing a video in kdenlive and then have it crash
<willcooke> oh well
<willcooke> rendering it makes my cpu busy, and that's all that's keeping me warm
<mlankhorst> I have water cooling that only gets warm when I build llvm-toolchain for 2 hours in qemu for the arm arch :P
<willcooke> ha!
<didrocks> kdenlive-cc, like distcc :)
<mlankhorst> after that the cooling tower turns into a space heater
<willcooke> nice bit of energy efficiency
<mlankhorst> I don't often use my cpu that much
<willcooke> so you openly admit to being a slacker?!?
<willcooke> ;)
<mlankhorst> nah, but most of the time builds take shorter
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, congrats on the Android doc app
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: not my work yet -- all kudos go out to collabora
<willcooke> good bunch of guys
<Sweet5hark> achievement unlocked: being quoted on omgubuntu.
<willcooke> :)
<brainwash> chrisccoulson: firefox 35 is stuck in vivid-proposed. any reason why?
<xnox> brainwash: you should be able to check that yourself from proposed migration documentation.
<xnox> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration
<xnox> in this case it's trivial to see missing build on armhf
<brainwash> right, just noticed that
<brainwash> so something like that can delay a security update :/
 * popey tickles willcooke 
<mlankhorst> vivid isn't released yet so why worry about it?
<willcooke> there he is
<seb128> popey, hey
<popey> yo yo
<brainwash> mlankhorst: vivid is being used by people to test/develop, these people might browse the web with an outdated/insecure web browser
<brainwash> I have -proposed enabled, so I'm not one of them
<tedg> Laney, Would you have time to look at this bustle bug? I'd love to get these split before FF. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=772148
<ubot5> Debian bug 772148 in bustle "bustle: Split out bustle-pcap into a separate binary package" [Wishlist,Open]
<seb128> do we have an opinion on whether booting the unity8-next iso live session should display the ooeb wizard?
<mlankhorst> oobe?
<seb128> out of the box expereience
<seb128> the first run wizard that let you pick locale, password, etc
<seb128> it's not that useful in a live session
<mlankhorst> out of the experience box!
<seb128> but it might be useful for testing/demoing it
<seb128> lol
<seb128> oobe I guess ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: agreed, it shouldn't
<willcooke> +1
<didrocks> (and maybe it's time to implement a "demo mode" :))
<seb128> didrocks, patches are welcome I guess? ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: fine with this, we can even implement that with systemd sessions (so not that cycle) and I'm happy to give it then a look ;)
<seb128> didrocks, do you know what's the right component to add a small hook to create the stamp file for the livecd user? livecd-rootfs?
<didrocks> seb128: you mean, creating the temp user, autologin and such?
<seb128> didrocks, well, to not display the wizard we need to touch a file in ~/.config
<seb128> didrocks, just trying to figure out where to add the line ;-)
<didrocks> yeah, all those temporary stuff are done in casper (casper-bottom scripts)
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> seb128: I have some cycles, I can handle this if you wish
<didrocks> that will remind me the UNE time :)
<seb128> didrocks, no, that's fine, I'm looking at, but thanks!
<didrocks> ok, do not hesitate if you have any question
<seb128> sure
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> always happy to break casper in the iso :)
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> seb128: scripts/casper-bottom/ btw
<seb128> didrocks, thanks, I've that on screen
<seb128> hum, vcs is one revision behind
<seb128> let me ping apw
<didrocks> waow, we still have code for Ubuntu MID
<Laney> bah, can't renew library book, brb need to take it back to avoid being fined ;-)
<Laney> now I'll never find out how it ends!
<Laney> tedg: I better look at that this afternoon to avoid forgetting
<Laney> :(
<tedg> Laney, Thanks!
<tedg> I'm sure someone has written a spoiler on the Internet :-)
<didrocks> Laney: try with a cup of tea, I learnt this was a real currency in your country :)
<Laney> "item has holds"
<Laney> need to find who that is and ... deal with them
 * tedg assumes from didrocks' comment that means throwing tea at them.
<didrocks> tedg: "offf couuuuursssssss" :)
<Laney> to the bottom of the deep brown tea
<tedg> didrocks, I was told that you're doing the BZ5 transition. Is that landing soonish?
<didrocks> tedg: there are the u-c-c part to be done (larsu is on it), and we might be blocked by the Touch side
<didrocks> tedg: the kernel team is supposed to update the Touch kernel with BZ5 patches, not a priority to them until February
<larsu> beware of the Touch side
 * tedg is not touching that
<tedg> didrocks, K, thanks for the update.
<didrocks> yw!
<Laney> tedg: oh, I thought you'd submitted a patch. :(
<tedg> Laney, I thought I did too.
<tedg> Laney, How do I attach to that bug?
<Laney> Email bugnumber@bugs.debian.org & attach it
 * tedg tries to add it
<tedg> Laney, How long does it typically take to show up on the bug?
<Laney> tedg: Few minutes I guess, not long
<didrocks> lately it's been up to 10 minutes
 * tedg presses reload a few times to make it faster
<didrocks> I think the queue is busy
<didrocks> tedg: you will receive an email to notify you
<tedg> Seriously, I get an e-mail to confirm I sent e-mail? :-)
<didrocks> you get a ack :)
<Laney> it's there now
<tedg> Woot! Reload worked!
<tedg> ;-)
<mpt> Hmm, thatâs weird
<mpt> If I use xprop or xwininfo on Unityâs shutdown dialog, I just get the properties of whatever window is underneath
<Laney> needs Breaks+Replaces
<Laney> but thanks
<tedg> Laney, I thought for a new binary package I wouldn't, no?
<tedg> mpt, It is drawn by the compositor, so it's not a real window.
<mpt> ah, ok, thanks tedg
 * didrocks waves good evening
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-01-22
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<happyaron> morning seb128
<seb128> hey happyaron, how are you?
<happyaron> great, :)
<didrocks> hey seb128, happyaron
<seb128> lut didrocks :-)
<happyaron> didrocks hey, :)
 * didrocks now waits for ubuntu-make to build everywhere before blogging
<pitti> bonjour seb128 et didrocks
<pitti> hey happyaron
<didrocks> morning pitti
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke!
<pitti> played basketball again after 4 weeks last night; it was great
<seb128> nice
<seb128> I played tennis yesterday, was great as well ;-)
<pitti> seb128: oh, dehors ? Il fait trÃ¨s froid ..
<seb128> pitti, oui, dehors, il fait froid mais il n'y avait pas de vent et quand tu bouges Ã§a va
<happyaron> hey pitti, :)
<pitti> vrai ; j'ai jouÃ© un peu lundi; seul, ... just to practice my throws
<pitti> (outside in the park, too)
<TheMuso> Hey willcooke.
<TheMuso> And hello to everyone else. :)
<willcooke> hey TheMuso
<seb128> hey TheMuso willcooke
<willcooke> TheMuso, just getting ready for school, be with you in 5 mins
<TheMuso> willcooke: No worries.
<didrocks> hey TheMuso, willcooke
<mlankhorst> morning
<willcooke> morning seb128 didrocks mlankhorst
<willcooke> TheMuso, 2 more mins...
<TheMuso> willcooke: No problem.
<Guest54456> hey hey
<Guest54456> GOD
<Guest54456> WHY
<Guest54456> might keep this nickname all day in protest
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> lol
<seb128> what happened there?
<Guest54456> must have been disconnected overnight
<Guest54456> ah
<Guest54456> 22/01 09:05:17 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- You are already logged in as Laney.
<Guest54456> I accidentally quit irssi, must have been changed before I logged back in
<Laney> so, hello!
<willcooke> QUOTE:
<willcooke> Blackberry CEO John Chen thinks that companies should be forced to develop apps for his platform (TechCrunch). He accused Netflix, amongst others, of discriminating against Blackberry and called on lawmakers in the US to enforce "application neutrality".
<mlankhorst> hahahahah
<mlankhorst> I'm surprised a certain other os that's also not succesfull whines about it yet :P
<Laney> Canonical developer Maarten Lankhorst was quoted as saying "What a great idea"
<didrocks> hey Laney, mlankhorst
<Laney> hey didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> Laney: headache and starting to catch a cold, so not at my maximum mind velocity TBH :p (which isn't great already)
<didrocks> and you?
<Laney> oh gosh, get some rest!
<Laney> I'm alright yeah
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, I plan to do mind-free tasks now that the intellij breakage is under control :)
<didrocks> like patch piloting, a little bit of man pages writingsâ¦
<Laney> some nice looking LCA summaries on LWN this week. ;)
 * didrocks does LWN catchup on Friday
<seb128> didrocks, Laney, can you sanity check http://paste.ubuntu.com/9816735/ for me?
 * didrocks looks
<seb128> "not configure"*
<seb128> (removing the second "to")
<seb128> in the comment
<seb128> hum, or not?
<didrocks> seb128: sounds good to me, idemnpotent and you source the needed resources IMHO
<didrocks> seb128: have you tried it already?
<seb128> didrocks, no, downloading the current daily atm
<didrocks> (of course, think about chmod +x ;))
<Laney> I don't understand the point of the prereq function
<seb128> Laney, I'm not sure, but all the other scripts in that dir have that snippet so I just copied/based on that
<seb128> oh, it fact they don't all have it
<seb128> but most do
<Laney> looks okay to me otherwise
<Laney> I guess it's some facility to have scripts be able to have pre requisites
<Laney> but in this case it does nothing since PREREQS is empty
<Laney> might be better to have it be there for future use
<seb128> k, I keep it
<seb128> didrocks, Laney, thanks
<didrocks> yw!
<seb128> Laney, english question, the second "to" should be there or not? /me is unsure
<seb128> "# Users want to try unity8, not to configure their system"
<willcooke> correct
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> I think it works both ways
<Laney> so what evs
<seb128> nice to update the phone and see the daily improvements
<seb128> with today updates the camera app has options to choose the image quality now, and to display a grid
<willcooke> hey Saviq
<willcooke> Saviq, you know how you and I are best buddies, and how I always tell people what a great guy you are?
<willcooke> well, now it's time for *you* to do *me* a favour.
<willcooke> Does this need your blessing?  https://code.launchpad.net/~gerboland/qtmir/fix-GTK-rendering/+merge/246201
<mlankhorst> willcooke: for xmir you don't need anything right now?
<willcooke> mlankhorst, I think we're good thanks
<Laney> didrocks: want to try the ido in silo 028 to see if it fixes indicator-sound for you?
<didrocks> Laney: sure, will do (in ~30 minutes, need some rest due to headache aggravating)
<Laney> :(
<Laney> feel better :(
<mlankhorst> meh, my patch to make glamor work broke other stuff
<willcooke> folks, who can help me with this:
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/oem-priority/+bug/1382291
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1382291 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Account creation during first boot of an OEM image needs to scale based on resolution" [Critical,Confirmed]
<Sweet5hark> Laney: thanks for that drive-by no-change rebuild of libreoffice for poppler!
<Laney> np
<Sweet5hark> mterry: ... and thanks for the MIR reviews.
<Sweet5hark> seb128: around?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, yes
<mterry> Sweet5hark, :)
<mterry> Sweet5hark, those were relatively easy oones
<Sweet5hark> seb128: so, I merged from debian, tested/tweaked the autopkgtests, added the MIR deps and am currently upload for a armhf test
<Sweet5hark> mterry: because of standard autotools foo for a plain lib?
<mterry> Sweet5hark, modern packaging and didn't have to worry about code itself because it was in main already
<Sweet5hark> seb128: if that arm build succeeds, I like to land that in vivid (as rc2), so as not to have a mir and mayor upstream release and FOSDEM and $stuff all at the same time.
<Sweet5hark> mterry: I will try to make things as easy as possible in the future too ;)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: currently there are only some ~25 additional commits upstream on top of rc2, so we should be okish to release a rc ...
<didrocks> Laney: ido fix works well in my guest session
<larsu> \o/
<didrocks> nice work ;)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, sounds good, let me know when it's ready and I can upload for you
<Sweet5hark> seb128: k, will do.
<mlankhorst> bleh glamor's stupid
<mlankhorst> red and blue are inverted in metacity with Xmir, nothing I can do about it right now. I need to understand what's going on more first..
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey, do you have documentation on xmir/what it is exactly/how it works technically? for those who want to understand it better :-)
<seb128> mlankhorst, also is that something separate from other components, or do we need patches to xorg or mir to get it to run?
<mlankhorst> seb128: it's a dumb wrapper for glamor with some support for dri2 that's currently broken
<mlankhorst> it's a separate standalone xserver in the xorg-server source
<mlankhorst> but the egl acceleration needs some patching to work on es2, it mostly assumes es3
<Laney> didrocks: thanks (was larsu who did it), releasing
<mlankhorst> seb128: no patches to mir are needed, but input and cursors don't work right because mir doesn't support enough yet..
<seb128> k
<mlankhorst> rotation works, is there anything you want to know specifically?
<didrocks> larsu: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/gtk/images-in-menubars/+merge/246307 seems that its merged upstream, right?
<larsu> didrocks: yes, I pushed it
<larsu> only to master though
<didrocks> larsu: do you think it worthes that we merge as a distro-patch to the gtk branch?
<didrocks> or should we wait for next release?
<larsu> didrocks: I think we should (thus I made the MR) - somebody from xfce asked for it
<didrocks> larsu: ok
<didrocks> Laney: do you have anything else in the pipe for gtk? (meaning: do I just stack the fix for a later upload?)
<Laney> no, please upload, but scan the queue to make sure there's nothing else if you don't mind
<didrocks> Laney: sure, just doing that
<larsu> didrocks: thanks!
<didrocks> thanks to you :)
<larsu> Laney: btw, I found that gedit encoding combo box issue
<larsu> Laney: also found out that it's fixed in 3-12 :/
<Laney> heh
<willcooke> mlankhorst, seb128 - we should write a wiki page.  I'll put it on my list of things to do
<seb128> willcooke, thanks
 * didrocks does a sanity build
<Laney> let's work on getting to 3.14 then
<larsu> that's what I'm doing right now
<larsu> just letting you know ;)
<Laney> sure, thanks for the heads up!
 * Laney digs out the touch laptop to look at GtkGesture stuff
<desrt> Laney: enjoying the netbsd stickers? :)
<Laney> they make me feel like a fraud :p
<mlankhorst> willcooke: where?
<willcooke> mlankhorst, for the wiki page?  Dunno, I'll chuck it up on the Ubuntu wiki somewhere
<mlankhorst> should probably be part of the u8 stuff
<Sweet5hark> seb128: hmmm, what happened with the libcmis-0.5.0 sync from experimental? cant find it in main/-proposed or the vivid-queue?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, sorry, I guess I forgot, doing that now
<Sweet5hark> seb128: np, thanks!
<willcooke> mlankhorst, good call
<mlankhorst> Xmir *can* run as replacement for the standalone Xserver, but it's not nearly feature complete to be an enjoyable experience :P
<didrocks> Laney: some gtk tests are known to be racy, right? (just confirming as I'm getting some tests randomly failing in my sbuild)
 * didrocks hasn't uploaded gtk for a long time in distro
<Laney> erm
<Laney> they are quite reliable for me
<Laney> and on the builders too
<Laney> push it and I'll try
<didrocks> Laney: done
<Laney> ty
<didrocks> thanks for trying :)
<Cimi> kenvandine, I tested like 200k times and it always switch to continue :)
<Cimi> both mako and krillin
<Cimi> I will try again...
<kenvandine> Cimi, sorry... didn't for me ... i tried twice
<kenvandine> it was checked when it connected
<kenvandine> but still said skip
<Cimi> kenvandine, did you wait like 2-3 sec?
<Cimi> kenvandine, the check turns green but it is not connected yet
<kenvandine> yeah... much longer
<Cimi> ah ok
<kenvandine> i waited a good 30s
<Cimi> here turns continue after 2 sec
<Cimi> kenvandine, do you have a sim card in?
<kenvandine> Cimi, oh.. and ifconfig confirmed it had an IP
<kenvandine> no sim
<Cimi> same condition
<Cimi> weird
<Cimi> have no idea then
<kenvandine> so i know it connected and had an IP
<Cimi> will try rtm on mako
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> sorry... i was hopeful :)
<Cimi> I tried rtm only on krillin
<kenvandine> i can't imagine that would matter...
<kenvandine> unless it's qml-module-qtsysteminfo
<kenvandine> i guess that could be blowing up on mako
<Laney> didrocks: (lt-gtk-reftest:3195): Gtk-WARNING **: Invalid icon size 0
<Laney> /build/gtk+3.0-78JpNx/gtk+3.0-3.14.7/testsuite/reftests/gtk-icontheme-sizing.ui: FAIL
<Laney> That sounds like it's a legit failure from this change
<Laney> orrrrrr ...
<didrocks> yeah, seem that the change can impact it, larsu? ^
<Laney> no wait
<didrocks> hum?
 * didrocks is too head-broken to have a clear thinking, will probably go off soonâ¦
<larsu> Laney: are you sure? The patch was in GtkImageMenuItem, which isn't in that reftest at all
<Laney> I said "no wait"
 * larsu waits
<larsu> maybe we're still missing pan-down-symbolic?
<Laney> didrocks: try that
<willcooke> didrocks, get well
<didrocks> willcooke: thanks
<GunnarHj> pitti: ping?
<didrocks> Laney: ah, makes sense
<didrocks> Laney: I'll go to get some rest now, either upload it or I will do it tomorrow morning
 * didrocks waves good evening and good night
<Cimi> kenvandine, mako rtm doesn't work with it
<Cimi> kenvandine, I will try debugging
<Cimi> kenvandine, can you try krillin too with rtm to see if works for you?
<Cimi> kenvandine, could be a qt bug in the rtm version
<kenvandine> Cimi, my krillin is vivid atm, i'd rather not switch it right now
<kenvandine> it's my daily driver :)
<Cimi> kenvandine, ok, you can try vivid too
<kenvandine> then it would be in unity8
<kenvandine> let me find someone else to test it
<Cimi> kenvandine, when CI will finish to build https://code.launchpad.net/~cimi/unity8/fix-1363400/+merge/247129
<Cimi> kenvandine, anyway mako rtm is a confirmed failure for me
<Cimi> kenvandine, vivid rtm mako was fine
<Cimi> vivid mako
<Cimi> I will try again rtm tomorrow
<Laney> GtkGestures seem to work well
 * Laney gets out the BFG
 * willcooke EOD
<Sweet5hark> seb128: thx for libcmis! ;)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, yw!
<Sweet5hark> libreoffice build now running on amd64,ppc,i386,armhf -- thus calling it EOD
<seb128> Sweet5hark, have fun!
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-01-23
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> hey GunnarHj
<happyaron> morning pitti
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, happy friday! wie gehts?
<didrocks> bonjour pitti! encore malade :/
<didrocks> et toi ?
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke!
<pitti> didrocks: eek, your knee, or something else now?
<didrocks> pitti: since yesterday: headache + caught a cold
<didrocks> so quite a slow mindâ¦
 * pitti hugs didrocks
<pitti> get well soon then!
 * didrocks hugs pitti back
<didrocks> pitti: well, better now that during the hackfest/fosdem/sprint
<didrocks> than*
<didrocks> pitti: so today: testing fsck full integration with reboot (only did running plymouthd and services manually), so with units and so on + writing man pages
<didrocks> so, expect a lot of reboots
<didrocks> (as the vms are using the ubuntu text version for plymouth, so need real hw)
<pitti> didrocks: oh, really? I see the graphical one
<didrocks> pitti: then, everything is done apart: "non ubuntu plymouth theme and i18n"
<seb128> didrocks, don't bring us the ubuflu!
<didrocks> pitti: squared dots?
<didrocks> seb128: a week should be enough to get that completely evacuated from my body!
<pitti> didrocks: hm, I do see the graphical one on shutdown; booting is so fast, I actually don't see anything at all
<pitti> didrocks: let me try forcing an fsck on that and reboot, that should take a bit longer, right?
<pitti> seb128: oh, you're coming too? nice!
<didrocks> pitti: yeah should!
<didrocks> seb128: I hope that a week would be enough. bonus is that I'll be immunized!
<seb128> pitti, well, I'm coming to Brussels for the mir/unity week after fosdem, but I'm going to be there at least on sunday
<didrocks> pitti: I just tried on virtualbox, I need to repair a qemu box
<pitti> didrocks: and I definitively get the graphical one when booitng the live CD
<pitti> seb128: ah, nice!
<pitti> didrocks: well, immunized against *that particular* germ -- not the other 50 which will be floating around :)
<pitti> didrocks: hm, forced fsck, still didn't see any plymouht at all
<didrocks> pitti: qemu is too fast
<pitti> didrocks: do you start plymouth in the initramfs? i. e. do you have cryptsetup installed or so?
<didrocks> pitti: I don't start it during initramfs
<didrocks> pitti: when you say graphical -> rounded dots?
<didrocks> not squared?
<pitti> didrocks: anyway, try various -vga options
<pitti> didrocks: yes; I mean the -ubuntu theme, not the -text one
<pitti> that's what you aim for, right?
<didrocks> ok, as most of people think about -text being non graphical :)
<pitti> ah!
<pitti> didrocks: apt install cryptsetup, now I see a garbled (but graphical) theme
<didrocks> when -text, you have the ubuntu logo, but rendered without sprites
<didrocks> garbled?
<pitti> didrocks: well, in -text I only see a standard text cosole "Ubuntu 15.04 .." with some animated text dots
<pitti> didrocks: with -vga vmware -> -text
<pitti> didrocks: with -vga std -> -ubuntu (graphical)
<didrocks> right, the -text is http://techluminati.com/operating-systems/how-to-install-ubuntu-12-04/
<pitti> didrocks: ^ so try that one?
<didrocks> ah, great!
<didrocks> yeah, trying :)
<pitti> didrocks: yeah -- any testing that involves rebooting your workstation just sucks and is way too demotivating :/
<pitti> didrocks: so: -vga std, sudo tune2fs -c 5 /dev/vda1, boot with upstart in grub -> I see graphical fsck
<pitti> (percentage and stuff)
 * didrocks hugs pitti, works well with -vga std :)
<didrocks> ok, now transferring units and mocks to the vm
<didrocks> and crossing fingers :)
<didrocks> pitti: just to keep you updated: I finished the C keystroke on wednesday
<didrocks> and so, it cancels all fsck processes running (and new incoming ones)
<didrocks> however, it's true that we have bug #776034 for now, which can be worrying on non ssd
<ubot5> bug 776034 in Gang Garrison 2 "failed to initialize drawing surfaces" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/776034
<didrocks> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=776034 rather
<ubot5> Debian bug 776034 in systemd "fsck runs in parallel on same physical disk" [Serious,Open]
<pitti> didrocks: you (did)rock!
<pitti> didrocks: btw, just making sure you know these potentially helpful tools: (1) forward VM's ssh port to the host so that you can easily ssh in, (2) enabling serial console so that you can debug stuff during boot, (3) enabling the systemd debug console
<pitti> didrocks: I haven't tried combining (2) and (3), i. e. enabling the debug console on ttyS0, but that might be useful :)
<didrocks> I did 3, will have a look at 2 :)
<didrocks> well, of course, everything will work well on first boot, right? :p
<pitti> didrocks: it's not much more than console=ttyS0 on the kernel cmd line
<pitti> didrocks: heh yeah, what am I talking about!
<didrocks> hehe :)
 * didrocks downloads latest vivid first and start the manpages
<pitti> systemd.log_target=console console=ttyS0
<pitti> didrocks: ^ that sounds useful too, in case your units spit out some logging
<didrocks> pitti: thanks for the hint! /me notes that down
<pitti> didrocks: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/Debugging/ has pretty much everything, I think
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, that was my baseline when I needed to have a look at that. I didn't use "Debug Logging to a Serial Console" though, (until now)
<pitti> didrocks: so, qemu: -serial stdio -vga vmware, and boot with console=ttyS0, then you get some crazy text plymouth on the console and then a login prompt
<didrocks> pitti: with qemu, you are always using the adt image, right?
<pitti> didrocks: hah -- I edited debug-shell.service for s/tty9/ttyS0/, sudo systemctl enable debug-shell.service
<pitti> didrocks: then just boot (no other kernel command line args)
<didrocks> ah sure, better that matches :)
<pitti> and you immediately get a root shell on the terminal where you launched qemu
<pitti> (don't use console=ttyS0 there, you can't have both the debug shell and a getty there)
<pitti> didrocks: no, not always
<pitti> didrocks: I do use the adt image for a lot of stuff, but for testing systemd uploads or things like that I have a standard vivid install in a VM
<pitti> didrocks: I call it "pid1.img" :) it's standard vivid plus systemd-sysv installed, plus using my apt proxy
<didrocks> pitti: ah, I might set that up then :)
<pitti> didrocks: and I always boot them with -snapshot so that my pid1.img always stays pristine
<pitti> and I can hack those up as much as I want
<didrocks> yeah :)
<pitti> didrocks: oh, and I changed grub to always show the boot menu, much nicer for that stuff
 * didrocks fires an install first
<pitti> i. e. comment out the two GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT lines in /etc/default/grub, then sudo update-grub
<didrocks> sure
<willcooke> morning guys
<willcooke> didrocks, feeling any better?
<seb128> hey willcooke
<willcooke> morning seb128
<seb128> happy friday ;-)
<willcooke> \o/
<GunnarHj> Hi pitti!
<didrocks> willcooke: not completely, still feeling tired and headache + sneezing
<didrocks> willcooke: better now than for the sprint though :p
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> hey GunnarHj
<GunnarHj> pitti: Noticed that you changed the tag at bug #678421 to "verification-done". Did you test the gdm package for Utopic?
<ubot5> bug 678421 in gdm "Error message for a faulty ~/.profile script" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/678421
<pitti> GunnarHj: oh, I misunderstood the tag changes then, sorry; adjusting
<Laney> hey hey, happy friday
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok. gdm-trusty has been tested, but not yet gdm-utopic.
<didrocks> argh, kvm crashed and now, I have some hw lockup, rebootingâ¦
<larsu> morning!
<didrocks> pitti: it seems I can't set SOCK_NONBLOCK directly from the .socket unit, or am I missing something? (so, I would need to call fcntl() for the socket-activated path)
<pitti> didrocks: I'm not aware of a way to do that; but wouldn't that defeat the purpose of activation?
<pitti> didrocks: also, NONBLOCK is a client-side option, not a server-side
<pitti> i. e. the activated service, nor the systemd proxy shouldn't care -- it's the client who conects to the socket who has to set that
<didrocks> pitti: the server can as well, to accept multiple connections without being multithreaded
<didrocks> (as some connections can happen after the service is activated)
<didrocks> take the case of multiple fsck in parallel
<pitti> didrocks: ah, I'm afraid I'm not aware of that kind of usage
<didrocks> pitti: that's working manually (if the service created the socket), it's just that when systemd gives it to me, it doesn't have this flag, but I can set on the fd afterwards in that case, so doing that
<didrocks> ok, working well now with the manual non blocking flag set (when the socket is passed by systemd :))
<Sweet5hark> moin
<pitti> moin Sweet5hark, wie gehts?
<pitti> Sweet5hark: FYI, latest LO autopkgtest fails, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/vivid-adt-libreoffice/119/?
<pitti> No package 'libcmis-0.4' found
<pitti> it's a bit weird, as it did succeed in vivid-proposed
<pitti> so this smells like a missing binary or test dep
<Sweet5hark> pitti: tres bien! J'ai construit libreoffice 4.4.0.2 on amd64,i386,armhf,powerpc!
<pitti> Sweet5hark: oh, on parle franÃ§ais maintenant ! d'accord :)
<larsu> man, this channel is turning more french by the minute...
<Sweet5hark> pitti: thats mostly harmless, it will go away when we bump to libreoffice 4.4. caused by a bit of hackishness in the autopkgtests ...
<pitti> Sweet5hark: well, it's now holding back gtk+3.0 because of the regression
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#gtk+3.0
<pitti> oh, and libcmis
<Sweet5hark> *cough* likely means that the current LibreOffice 4.3. in main is also FTBFS though :/
<pitti> Sweet5hark: so, I think the real reason is the libcmis update to 0.5? http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#libcmis
<pitti> so it's quite natural that it doesn't find -4.4
<Sweet5hark> pitti: yep, we bumped libcmis to 0.5 for libreoffice 4.4.
<Laney> looks like a transition
<pitti> ok, that explains at least that bit
<Sweet5hark> pitti: libreoffice 4.3 should build and autotest against libmcis 0.5 too, but likely the autogenerated b-ds say it just wants 0.4
<Sweet5hark> pitti: the bad news is libreoffice 4.4 didnt yet build on arm64/ppc64el ... but on a closer inspection we never shipped those before anyway.
<pitti> Sweet5hark: yeah, that shoudln't hold it back
<Sweet5hark> pitti: https://launchpad.net/~canonical-libreoffice-builds/+archive/ubuntu/archive-staging/+sourcepub/4682663/+listing-archive-extra should land in the archive soonish (next days) anyway ...
<pitti> cool, thanks
<Sweet5hark> thats the question: whether 'tis nobler in the mind to ask for gcc-4.7 to be ported to ppc64el or to switch to ucpp making it a build-depend on all archs and thus requiring a profane and cruel MIR to make it join the jolly lot in main!
<Sweet5hark> (its friday, isnt it?)
<didrocks> pitti: ok, latest bugs squashed (a race where plymouth started after the root fsck), writing manpages now
<didrocks> pitti: however, in the emulator, c doesn't cancel (the signal is not received)
<didrocks> pitti: not sure if it's a qemu issue, I'll try rebooting my box soon
<didrocks> (works well with plymouth-x11 in my session)
<pitti> didrocks: yay, sounds great!
<pitti> didrocks: sorry, got stuck in debugging the touch regression for the past 2 hours :/
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, saw that, no worry :)
<pitti> didrocks: so it sounds like you might have this on the upstream list by next week, so that we can work on it on the hackfest?
<pitti> oh, Netti is coming home, lunch o'clock
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I'm looking at the i18n integration now, but I can post without this
<didrocks> pitti: basically, I think we'll send the metadata + a string
<didrocks> pitti: so that .script themes can use the string directly, and other themes can use the metadata
<didrocks> enjoy your lunch! :)
<xnox> didrocks: "however, in the emulator, c doesn't cancel (the signal is not received)" phone emulator? that one does not have a physical keyboard... not allows input from it, not even if a skin with keyboard is enabled
<didrocks> xnox: no, qemu, ubuntu-dekstop on plymouth
<didrocks> ubuntu-desktop*
<xnox> didrocks: =(
<didrocks> xnox: I need to check on my system if this works though. But I guess it does (doing something similar than mountall) and it works with plymouth-x11
<didrocks> and yeah, the signal is send to listen to that key, it's not something racy (as I write something on the theme screen and this part is written)
<xnox> didrocks: is tty connected to plymouth or systemd. as far as i remember there are multiple things needed in the unit to have tty actually wired up to plymouth.
<xnox> e.g. see oem-config / ubiquity jobs
<xnox> units that is.
<didrocks> xnox: ohoh, nice pick!
<didrocks> probably plymouth tty not being connected
 * didrocks looks
<xnox> i see no lennart in http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-November/thread.html#25288
<xnox> didrocks: ^ -enochan
<seb128> xnox, look in decembre?
<xnox> night
<xnox> tah
<seb128> xnox, night? are you in .au now?!
<seb128> or is that "right"? ;-)
<xnox> seb128: that was a typo for "right"
<didrocks> xnox: yeah, it's going on in december :) (but answered on the right chan :p)
<didrocks> xnox: that's why threading is bad, we need isolates!
<pitti> didrocks: oh, that sounds good -- then any consumer can pick
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, sounds the saner approach to me
<didrocks> pitti: trying the TTY options for plymouth that xnox suggested, didn't get it to work for now
<didrocks> but looking)
<pitti> didrocks: which ones? I recently fiddled with friendly-recovery and ubiquity-dm, which both want to 0wn the console
<didrocks> pitti: xnox told rightly that I maybe don't receive keypresses in plymouth due to StandardInput= not being set
<didrocks> pitti: tried to direct it to tty1, tty7â¦ no chance yet
<didrocks> but for upstart we did nothing specific and the plymouthd daemon seems to fork and then set the tty itself, so, it should get the inputsâ¦
<xnox> systemd is angry and does more setup than upstart did...
<didrocks> xnox: well, it would as well prevent plymouthd to display the splash
<xnox> didrocks: splash is output, keyboard is input.
 * xnox thought there were hooks into systemd-input mechanics, unless that's for cryptsetup only
<xnox> i'm so happy you are looking into this =)
<didrocks> xnox: yeah, but there it would be where for systemd to allow setting any ouptut and mess with inputs
<didrocks> xnox: ahah, I see that :p
<pitti> didrocks: right, I had the same "does not receive keypresses" in ubiquity, until I set up the TTY correctly
<pitti> didrocks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9835101/ is what I did for oem-config
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I tried that with tty1 and then tty7 but didn't work
<pitti> didrocks: so it might be that plymouth's units need something like that (as it's plymouth which gets the keys, not fsckd, right?)
<didrocks> pitti: right, it's plymouth
<didrocks> pitti: I wonder though, because systemd as systemd-ask-password-plymouth.service
<didrocks> so, it's like they already support stdin from plymouth? (this service, just run plymouth ask-questionâ¦)
<pitti> didrocks: right, that's for cryptsetup passphrases and similar, so that ought to work
<didrocks> pitti: I didn't retry to reboot on my system yet, so maybe it's all working and just not in qemu for $whateverreason
<didrocks> headache restarting again -> fallback to manpage writing
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<seb128> kenvandine, seems like you registered the notes-app project on launchpad, is anyone working on it? there are some approved mps, would be nice to land those
<kenvandine> i don't think so
<kenvandine> i just did that as a part of mass registering all the projects
<seb128> kenvandine, k, do you know who to ask about it? I'm happy to help and handle some landing/click updates (just need somebody to point me on how to do that, never did it)
<seb128> kenvandine, I'm using the app and would like to maybe fix some small issues
<kenvandine> bfiller would know
<kenvandine> seb128, it was abandoned in favor of reminder-app
<kenvandine> i think
<seb128> kenvandine, they are differents apps though
<seb128> ok, I'm going to drop from IRC, working offline in a bit and probably not joining IRC again before calling it a week, have a nice w.e everyone
<willcooke> cya seb128
<mdeslaur> larsu: hi! what's the solution for apps that get black backgrounds when used with overlay scrollbars? what should I be looking for?
<mdeslaur> larsu: ie: http://snag.gy/pT2aB.jpg
<larsu> mdeslaur: setting the background of affected widgets to @bg_color in the theme usually works
<larsu> better is to disable overlay-scrollbars ;)
<mdeslaur> larsu: in the _theme_? so not the app itself?
<larsu> ya
<mdeslaur> ah, lovely
<mdeslaur> larsu: what's the best way to turn off overlay-scrollbars in the app itself?
<larsu> mdeslaur: remove overlay-scrollbars from GTK_MODULES
<larsu> sorry, overlay-scrollbar (sans s)
<mdeslaur> larsu: can I do that in that app itself, or is it too late then and I have to do it in the desktop file?
<larsu> mdeslaur: should be fine if you do it before gtk_init()
<mdeslaur> cool, thanks for your help larsu!
<larsu> mdeslaur: yw. Sorry about the sad state of that module :/  It's a huge hack in gtk
<mdeslaur> larsu: will the new upstream stuff make it easier?
<Laney> it's gone next cycle!
<mdeslaur> gone? as in ugly scrollbars, or as in the new upstream stuff?
<larsu> we have ugly ones now ;)
<larsu> but ya, upstream got their own version of overlay scrollbars
<mdeslaur> and we're going to be using those?
<larsu> yes
<mdeslaur> cool
 * didrocks goes to get some rest and sneezing in his bed. see you on Monday guys and have a good week-end!
<didrocks> safe flight larsu & desrt
 * willcooke -> EOD
<willcooke> ta ta#
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-01-24
<happyaron> Laney: seems my membership in ~ubuntu-input-methods-dev is about to expire, can you help me to renew it?
<Laney> happyaron: ok
<Laney> I fixed it so you can self renew next time
<happyaron> Laney: great
<happyaron> thanks
 * desrt yawns
<larsu> desrt: welcome to europe ;)
<desrt> not yet
<desrt> at yyz
<desrt> just about to go get on my flight
<larsu> oh. Safe trip, then ;)
<desrt> will be on the ground in another 7 hours i guess
<desrt> probably won't be in cambridge until after midnight
<desrt> see you tomorrow :)
<larsu> ugh
<larsu> see you!
<istimsak> Hello team. I have been looking for an easy to setup email client for my ubuntu system. Thunderbird takes too long to gather new email messages, statues and changes. I have been geary and it is quick, simple and too the point. It  makes reading email messages seem like instant chatting. It could use more features, like the ability to create folders on internet email servers.
<istimsak> Can I suggest making "geary" the default email client on ubuntu installs?
<istimsak>  Sorry typo, " I have been using 'geary'"
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-01-25
<hikiko> hello
<pitti> Bonjour tout le monde !
<andyrock> morning
<willcooke> morning all
<alexarnaud> morning willcooke and all!
<alexarnaud> willcooke: did you spend a good week-end ?
<alexarnaud> (I don't know if it's the right answser)
<willcooke> :) yes thanks alexarnaud
<willcooke> did you?
<alexarnaud> willcooke: the right question is : did you have a good weekend?
<alexarnaud> My week-end was studious. I've working for a study project : beeslide.fr
<willcooke> Neat!
<Laney> hey hey
<willcooke> what up Laney
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you? good weekend?
<Laney> hey willcooke and pitti!
<Laney> not bad thanks, went out for some birthday drinks and ended up staying out late
<Laney> so did a lot of sleeping yesterday, followed by quiz & tapas at a local vegetarian restaurant
<Laney> what about you?
<pitti> Laney: we visited a colleague of Annett the whole Saturday, and yesterday loots of household stuff: clearing drains, cleaning the appartment, cutting trees in the garden, etc.
<pitti> Laney: uh, I have your bday for this Wednesday, is my calendar wrong?
<Laney> pitti: wanted to have some drinks on a weekend, and the next one I'll be in .be :)
<pitti> ah, good point :)
 * pitti is now faced with an impossible task -- pick an UTF-8 char for excuses.html for "retry this test"
<Laney> pitti: still a couple more days of matching /2\d/
<pitti> :)
<Laney> umm
<Laney> is there a unicode recycling symbol?
<pitti> ððð 
<Sweet5hark1> moin!
<pitti> hey Sweet5hark1 !
<Laney> â²
<pitti> although ð kind of fits too, "I hope that it works this time!" :-)
<Sweet5hark1> willcooke: finished building a snap: 353MB on amd64 ...
 * Laney doesn't have any of those ones in this font/charset/whatever
 * Laney stabs screen a bit again
<willcooke> Sweet5hark1, woot!  Thanks!
<davmor2> Laney: have a look for this one U+267C â¼ seem the most ubuntu-esque
<pitti> Laney: â is nice too
<Sweet5hark1> pitti: heya, testing people irc clients to support wild utf-8 codepoints this morning?
<pitti> Sweet5hark1: no, finding a nice symbol for "retry this test" for excuses.html :)
<pitti> the hardest part of implementing it!
 * pitti likes â and will go with that for now
<Sweet5hark1> hrhr
<davmor2> â¥ pitti
<davmor2> âª pitti or this more elegant version
<pitti> hm, that doesn't connote "retry" for me, it's more like "forward"?
<pitti> â» might be best there indeed (also a bit stronger than the above â² )
<larsu> good morning!
 * Laney loves that there is â» and â² and â¼ 
<Laney> hi larsu!
<pitti> hey larsu!
<larsu> hi Laney and pitti! How's life?
<Laney> schÃ¶nes wochenende?
<pitti> larsu: it's nice, thanks! had a full but nice weekend
<Laney> good!
<Laney> went to the cat cafe (H)
<pitti> larsu: how about you?
<larsu> oh nice :)
<larsu> mine was nice as well, but very quiet :)
<larsu> watched "the danish girl". good movie!
<xnox> good morning everyone. reading backlog, it's all about that utf-8, 8, 8, 8 no ascii.
<larsu> haha hi xnox
<Laney> what up xnox
 * Laney flashes some gang signs
<xnox> mostly been reading my bug mail... and i feel like starbucks and not fixing any of my assigned bugs
<Laney> my condolences
<pitti> larsu: ah, that's on our list still, too; last time we picked "The Revenant", that was also great
<xnox> i liked danish girl, and cringed and looked away during The Revenant.
<pitti> hey xnox, how are you?
<xnox> i guess there are people who did the opposite too.
<pitti> "The Big Short" is also on my list still; not enough weekends to go to the movies! :-)
<xnox> also the horse scene was a lot like Alien vs Predator to me....
<xnox> pitti, yeah. I think i read the book about it too. No idea if movie is at all based on said book or not.
<xnox> but Big Short is a funny movie, or so i take from the trailer.
<xnox> pitti, well, i need to run 4km to get a free cinema ticket voucher....
<pitti> xnox: wow, you have a "free cinema tickets" booth 4 km from you?
<Laney> dumpster diving @ cineworld
<larsu> haha
<xnox> Laney, you do too, no? from vitality?
<Laney> nah I don't have that
 * Laney NHS
<xnox> Laney, they still redirect to nhs. I'm not sure how they make money, cause i think i'm getting more out of them than the premium.
<xnox> pitti, if i log/sync enough steps or 30min of active time through one of the apps, i get one free cinema ticket a week & a starbucks coffee - http://www.pruhealth.co.uk/vitality/partners/cinema/
<Laney> you counting what you pay or the full price?
<pitti> xnox: oh, wow
<xnox> Laney, i'm counting the full price.
<xnox> Laney, but obviously i beat the bit i pay.
<Laney> k
<Laney> then part of the answer is probably that vitality negotiated a discount
<Laney> and some economies of scale
<xnox> Laney, yeah, i suspect these partners pay vitality to make these offers. To generate additional in-house revenue, once the person is through the door.
<pitti> Laney: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/excuses.html
<pitti> Laney: the package name/releases are bogus of course, but you should be able to click and SSO-auth
<pitti> (it will then say "no such release" or so)
<pitti> it's a page generated by britney's tests
<Laney> pitti: is it expected that the team membership thing is unchecked by default?
<Laney> I bet if I forget to click that it doesn't work :)
<pitti> Laney: expected yes, desired no, this needs an RT or something to "bless" autopkgtest.u.c. for getting this checked by default
<Laney> there's no API parameter or so to have this on by default?
<Laney> huh
<pitti> Laney: no, this needs to be done on the SSO side
<Laney> I'm sure there is a good reason for that...
<pitti> robru: ^ who did you ask for getting the team checked by default?
<pitti> Laney: also, the link isn't https:// yet, as that's firewalled (RT pending)
<pitti> so you'll get some "unsafe blabla" warning
<pitti> I won't anncounce this until ssl is on
<Laney> where's the code for this?
<Laney> just in case :)
<pitti> Laney: https://git.launchpad.net/~canonical-foundations/+git/autopkgtest-retrier
<Laney> ah
<Laney> pitti: thanks!
<Laney> pitti: I suppose if you move to the uploader check then you don't need the team thing
<Laney> or, since this is a public team, the app itself could check membership too
<Laney> if this takes long and people are forgetting to check it all the time
<alexarnaud> willcooke: do you know when seb128 come back?
<willcooke> probably not until tomorrow afternoon
<willcooke> actually, later than that
<willcooke> Wednesday morning
<pitti> Laney: yeah, indeed; but hopefully whitelisting a.u.c. will be quick
<Laney> pitti: sometimes when "hope" meets RT the good team loses :P
<pitti> lol
 * Laney likes it when you file a bug and find it's fixed before submitting it
<alexarnaud> willcooke: OK, thanks
 * Laney slowly turns glib's tests green
<andyrock> xenail daily build iso fails to start here
<tjaalton> should nautilus in xenial support google drive OOTB, as omgubuntu claimed it (3.18) would?
<Laney> with goa I think, not uoa
<Laney> try with gnome-control-center.real
<Laney> no guarantee
<tjaalton> ah
<tjaalton> bummer then
<Laney> you could try to hit mardy up to see what work would be required
<tjaalton> ok
<Laney> andyrock: in what way?
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/hi.png
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> not that "works for me" is very helpful
<Laney> !wfm
<ubot5> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability.
<Laney> always thought that was a weird factoid
<flexiondotorg> Laney, How goes the GNOME Software transition?
<Laney> ask robert_ancell
<Laney> he posted a ppa on the list
<Laney> try that
<flexiondotorg> Thanks
<desrt> "Hello, and good morning."
<willcooke> hi desrt
<desrt> hello will cooke.
<willcooke> desrt, do you know where gdkscreen gets its information about screen rotation from?
<desrt> xrandr
<willcooke> thx
 * willcooke goes further down the rabbit hole 
<desrt> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gdk/x11/gdkscreen-x11.c#n616 might be a good place to start digging
<desrt> XRRGetMonitors basically gets you everything you need
<willcooke> cool, thanks
<andyrock> Laney: it's a kernel failures
<andyrock> *failure
<andyrock> looks like something related to nouveau drivers
<andyrock> but not sure
<qengho> Are resize-handles handled differently now in gnome-shell, versus a few months ago? I use x2x to merge two desktops, and the screen edge that transitions to the other display isn't magic any more if there is any window close to it.
<qengho> I didn't use Shell for a few months. I don't know when more precisely.
<Laney> pitti: have you looked into udisks2/ppc64el?
<Laney> (did I ask about this before?)
<pitti> Laney: I didn't look at it yet, no
<willcooke> https://plus.google.com/+AmartyaDattaGupta/posts/EouWaWmibwS
<willcooke> DAMN YOU Gtk CSS!
<willcooke> Why wont my bottom borders show up on notebook tabs?!!?!?!?
<willcooke> I think it's there but transparent.  In that the area of transparency increases when I change the size of the border, but I just can't get it to be visible
<davmor2> willcooke, cyphermox: I have a crash trying to install oem 64bit against secure booted kvm instance in the installer about to file the bug if it lets me now
<davmor2> oh on 14.04.4 btw
<davmor2> willcooke, cyphermox: bug 1537858
<ubot5> bug 1537858 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Crash happened during the install of oem mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1537858
<cyphermox> says there's a package conflict
<cyphermox> I'll try an install here in a bit
<davmor2> cyphermox: just trying a normal install rather than oem see if it is only triggered in that mode
<cyphermox> ack
<cyphermox> I'm zsyncing the image
<BruBeer> I am very new to this so excuse my ignorance. I am looking for general help with a new install of Ubuntu 14.04 it is running Super Slow is this the right place for this convo
<larsu> BruBeer: probably better to ask in #ubuntu
<davmor2> cyphermox: looks like it is specific to the OEM version the normal version has just installed
<davmor2> cyphermox: so possibly one of the oem specific files maybe?
<davmor2> cyphermox: fwiw I checked the 3rd party and download updates boxes during the install I'll add that to the steps
<cyphermox> davmor2: oh, indeed I suppose it could be why
<willcooke> When you're trying to work out a Gtk theming issues and you're reading the source SCSS for Adwaita...
<willcooke> """
<willcooke> notebook {
<willcooke>   // Through me you go to the grief wracked city;
<willcooke>   // Through me you go to everlasting pain;
<willcooke>   // Through me you go a pass among lost souls.
<willcooke>   // ...
<willcooke>   // Abandon all hope â Ye Who Enter Here
<willcooke>   padding: 0;
<willcooke> """
<sarnold> sounds like time to call it a day :)
<willcooke> :D
<davmor2> willcooke: That sounds suspiciously like the place you need to be to fix stuff, you know it's like the Warning No Entry sign ignore and press on what could possibly go wrong...will.......willlllll...........wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllllll
<willcooke> I prefer sarnold's idea :)
<willcooke> and once robert_ancell gets up that's exactly what I'm gonna do
<davmor2> willcooke: wrap it up nicely with a little bow and label He'll never see the trap till it's too late :)
<willcooke> :D
<davmor2> willcooke: oh and remember the gag the admiral Ackbar he has on his shoulder that will forewarn him
<willcooke> morning robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> willcooke, hi
<sarnold> lookout! it's a trap!
<davmor2> willcooke: did I not warn you to gag him ;)
 * willcooke remembers to speak to Boba Fett about sarnold #
<davmor2> robert_ancell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bzWSJG93P8 if you hear something like this it's just the party next door ignore it :)
<robert_ancell> uhhh, /me has to do something else suddenly...
<attente> robert_ancell: i think i got the reviews to work now
<robert_ancell> attente, nice! otp - be back soon
<attente> robert_ancell: no worries, tyt :)
<pitti> robru, Laney: got the "can requestor upload trigger or package" check implemented now, and completely dropped the Teams bits
<pitti> that's indeed easier, and circumvents the "team not checked by default" issue
<robru> pitti: well "team not checked by default" issue is resolved by talking to sso people to get on the whitelist, but yeah, checking upload rights is better anyway
<sarnold> hey pitti, another night shift?
<pitti> robru: right, it's more like a nice side effect than an insurmountable obstacle of course, but as we planned to do that anyway, we can do it  right away :)
<pitti> sarnold: I don't plan to, I just wanted to figure this out
<sarnold> aha :)
<robru> pitti: where's the code? can I see it?
<pitti> robru: I stumbled over the fact that nobody was allowed to upload to e. g. trusty Release, so it needs pocket=Proposed
<pitti> robru: I guess you found that too
<pitti> robru: just committing, hang on
<robru> pitti: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/cupstream2distro/view/head:/citrain/recipes/base.py#L352 did you see the train implementation?
<pitti> robru: yes, that's what I modelled it after
<robru> pitti: ok cool ;-) yeah we do pocket=Proposed as well
<pitti> robru: except for the New bit, as that isn't necessary for retries
<robru> pitti: are you sure though? does autopkgtest not run for packages that are not in ubuntu archive yet?
<robru> pitti: like you could have a package that is in the silo but not in ubuntu archive, and the test could fail, and somebody could want to retry that
<pitti> robru: it can run for PPAs
<pitti> robru: but people who do that can already request runs via the "normal" AMQP route
<pitti> robru: so, I do want to implement this eventually
<pitti> robru: but this is even less dependant on team membership, but we need to ask for upload privs to that PPA
<pitti> robru: but then again, the package must already exist in the PPA
<robru> pitti: what do you mean "it can run for PPAs"? if you check upload rights to a train ppa you'll just get trainguards (eg, me)
<pitti> robru: this is *re*trying a failed test, therefore it must have run at least once for an existnig package
<robru> pitti: yes, but it could have run on a package that's in a ppa and not in the ubuntu archive.
<pitti> robru: I can upload to silos too :)
<robru> pitti: if your code is checking against the upload rights to the main archive, the package might not be there
<pitti> robru: that's correct; but so far that's all that it did anyway
<pitti> robru: you couldn't retry PPA runs with the previous version either, the validation would have errored out way before
<pitti> that feature is just completely missing still
<robru> ok
<robert_ancell> attente, did you talk to dobey?
<pitti> robru: https://git.launchpad.net/~canonical-foundations/+git/autopkgtest-retrier/commit/?id=4fe5b6e9 FYI
<robru> coool
<attente> robert_ancell: no, but i saw some of the backlog from last night
<robert_ancell> attente, so it sounds like ubuntu-sso-client is ultimately the wrong long term solution, but I guess there's no replacement yet?
<attente> yeah, i'm not sure how to proceed. if a rest api exists, we can try using it directly, but it sounded like it doesn't?
<robert_ancell> Depending on ubuntu-sso-client will mess up the dropping Python 2 goal.
<pitti> robru: how would we verify that a person can retry a silo test?
<pitti> robru: if relevant devs can't actually upload to the silo? (that's quite surprising to me)
<robert_ancell> attente, you can use the REST API, but that means that g-s needs the UI and data storage which is suboptimal (but was my previous plan_
<robru> pitti: well, the same way we handle NEW packages in train publications: if that person has permission to upload flashplugin-nonfree into universe.
<robru> pitti: right, only a small group can upload to PPAs because the train does PPA uploads for them.
<pitti> robru: ah, so you still want to limit it to ~ubuntu-dev (makes sense)
<robru> pitti: I don't think there's a meaningful way to identify a silo owner programmatically
<attente> so i guess we either put that ui directly in g-s or write a new service
<robert_ancell> attente, does ubuntu-sso-client integrate with u-c-c?
<pitti> robru: ok, so we'd need to extend the "is this package/version valid" check for PPAs, and then this binNEW trick with a hardcoded universe package name
<robru> pitti: yeah
<attente> robert_ancell: not sure. grep says "no"
<robru> pitti: damn son, I *almost* like your raw REST calls more than lplib...
<robert_ancell> attente, that was the bit I was confused about - what the relationship between libaccounts and ubuntu-sso-client
<attente> oh. but there is a plugin that integrates with it, right?
<pitti> robru: well, lplib is just syntactic sugar around those :) I just want to stay out of the business of all those backports and potential bugs
<robru> pitti: yeah exactly, but I mean the way you make the calls manually is almost nicer than the 'sugar'
<pitti> robru: while looking into bug 1153671 I found at least eight bugs in py3-lplib :)
<ubot5> bug 1153671 in apport (Ubuntu) "Port to python3-launchpadlib" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1153671
<pitti> robru: yeah, "def lp_request()" is a bit low-level, I split that out now; using it looks reasonably non-ugly
<robru> pitti: despite those bugs we are using it with great success in the train for many months now
<pitti> robru: yeah, apport is using quite a lot of API :/ it auto-creates bugs, attachments, needs to deal with arbitrarily weird data, etc.
<robru> ah
<pitti> robru: I really like the "100% test coverage" enforcement! (at least for a tiny project like this)
<robru> pitti: yeah, it's really great. I consider 100% coverage to be a minimum for python
<pitti> now I just need SSL un-firewalled, then this is ready to go
<robert_ancell> attente, so, what works now?
<robru> pitti: one time I wrote a null testsuite for a project and coverage reported it was 70% covered just by importing the code, so python coverage numbers are a bit skewed.
<pitti> robru: yes, it doesn't tell you anything about the quality of your assertions of course
<pitti> robru: like, by my standards this is actually relatively bad as it has almost no black-box integration tests, just unit tests
<pitti> but oh well, cf. "simple enough" :)
<attente> robert_ancell: should be able to post a review with the g-s ui you added
<robru> pitti: yeah, exactly. that's why 100% is a minimum, because once you get 100% you also need to write integration tests ;-)
<robert_ancell> attente, nice!
<attente> if the user isn't logged into u1, then ubuntu-sso-client will prompt, but you're right, we have to replace it
<robert_ancell> attente, so I guess the next goal is to solve the ubuntu-sso-client issue - fix, replace or put that UI into g-s (for now)
<robert_ancell> attente, you've seen the REST API docs for that right?
<attente> are there other more urgent things we should look at?
<attente> haven't, and not sure where the docs are for it
<robert_ancell> attente, the other things are software-properties-gtk (I started hacking on that) and Unity integration
<robert_ancell> And anything else we might have forgotten
<attente> dobey: hi, do you know where the docs are for the rest api of ubuntu sso?
<robert_ancell> attente, I've got them, hang on
<robert_ancell> attente, http://canonical-identity-provider.readthedocs.org/en/latest/
 * willcooke has just emailed andyrock about the Unity integration (if that's the same thing we just talked about robert_ancell?)
<robert_ancell> willcooke, yep
<robert_ancell> attente, so it seems pretty straight forward to log in.
<willcooke> FWIW - if U-O-A isn't going to be fixed by those guys, then I'm all for adding that functionality in to G-S until such time as they do fix it (which might be never)
<robert_ancell> attente, and my blogpost http://bobthegnome.blogspot.co.nz/2015/12/accessing-webservice-using-libsoup-and_10.html
<willcooke> That said, mardy did think it would be low effort to fix it properly, so perhaps that's the better option
<robert_ancell> willcooke, it's the pragmatic solution but probably wont be able to go upstream like that
<attente> robert_ancell: ah, nice
<willcooke> robert_ancell, ahh.
<robert_ancell> willcooke, it also breaks the internal model of g-s where the plugins don't have any UI access
<willcooke> might be worth poking mardy again tomorrow and asking him for a list of steps to fix.  I can do that in the morning once he's back online if that will help
<attente> so it sounds like we should basically write a better u-sso-client
<robert_ancell> attente, I had some old code for plugins to report what authentication they wanted (see git history). That's what I was thinking to push the request to the UI.
<willcooke> lemme see if I can find mardy...
<robert_ancell> attente, I think that is by far the best solution if we can get it done in time
<attente> robert_ancell: i saw, you might be right
<robert_ancell> attente, so I would say if you think it's do-able then that's the top priority to work on. It will give a better UX and it will be upstreamable like that.
<attente> ok, sure
<robert_ancell> We should also keep in mind how to support login with GOA as that's what the Ubuntu GNOME people will want to use. Probably wont have the time for us to do it but if we know what needs to be done someone else might step up and do it.
<dobey> attente: i'm not really here today/tomrorow (swap days), but if python is ok, then you can probably work from the code that xnox wrote a few years ago to add u1 login to the installer. it uses the newer REST API version.
<dobey> i guess python isn't good for UOA/GOA though
<attente> dobey: ok, thanks
 * pitti waves good night
<attente> robert_ancell: are we going to file an FFe for this?
<robert_ancell> pitti, bye!
<willcooke> night pitti
<robert_ancell> attente, are we past that point already?
<dobey> attente: too bad i didn't realize this was the case last week. we could have talked in austin :)
<attente> dobey: ah! i didn't know you were there!
<attente> robert_ancell: i guess we have time, i'm just worried since the deadline is coming up
<robert_ancell> attente, yeah, if the click stuff / appstream support is too delayed we'll have to do a FFe
<willcooke> meh, gtk wins this round.
<willcooke> But I'll be back tomorrow
<willcooke> g'night all
<xnox> dobey, omg
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-01-26
<hikiko> hi
<pitti> Good morning
<larsu> good morning!
<pitti> it's a Lars!
 * pitti hugs larsu
<larsu> hi pitti!
<larsu> one more day and I'm flying to BRU \o/
<pitti> larsu: one more day and I take the train! :-)
<ochosi> larsu: you goin to FOSDEM?
<pitti> larsu: I'll work in the train tomorrow morning and will then be in Leuven around 13:30, at a friend of mine
<larsu> pitti: yeah I was going to do that as well, but the timing was off
<pitti> it's only ~ 6 hours
<larsu> are you coming to the GNOME hackfest?
<larsu> or systemd?
<larsu> ochosi: yep. Are you coming as well?
<ochosi> larsu: yep :)
<larsu> cool :)
<ochosi> any places specifically where you'd hang out?
<ochosi> (in case one wanted to meet up for a meet'n'greet)
<larsu> ochosi: GNOME booth is the general meeting point for many of us
<larsu> just in that hall in front of it
<ochosi> larsu: sounds easy to spot. i'll try to stop by to say hi!
<larsu> please do!
<ochosi> on another note, i looked into the whole gtk3.18 linked buttons css yesterday (ambiance/radiance are also suffering from that still), it's really really exhausting to maintain themes in css
<ochosi> i know that for xubuntu i'll port our default theme to SASS for 3.20
<ochosi> (probably not before that because of all the changes 3.20 will bring)
<ochosi> but in case i get anywhere on that i'll let you know
<larsu> yeah hopefully maintaining a theme gets much easier from 3.20 forward
<larsu> at least that was the idea
<larsu> it's a pain now
<alexarnaud> Good morning all !
<larsu> morning alexarnaud!
<willcooke> what up dawgs
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: just the usual: everyone tries to make this an amazing day.
<Sweet5hark> ...or something
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> That's the spirit!
<larsu> morning Sweet5hark and willcooke!
<willcooke> hey larsu
<larsu> Sweet5hark: it already is an amazing day!
<Sweet5hark> larsu: true dat.
 * larsu looks out the window into the sun
 * Sweet5hark loos out the windows and ... wait, sun? no fair!
<willcooke> hey, it wasn't dark when I got up this morning at least
<willcooke> so spring is on the way
<Laney> morning!
<alexarnaud> willcooke: all good today, I meet lots of interesting people :)
<willcooke> hey Laney alexarnaud
<alexarnaud> willcooke: and you how are you ? In which country do you live ?
<willcooke> alexarnaud, fine thanks.  I'm in the UK
<alexarnaud> OK :)
<alexarnaud> willcooke: is alpha Ubuntu usable in a real world ?
<alexarnaud> I'm using Debian Sid everyday with relatively no problem.
<larsu> morning Laney!
<Laney> hi gangstas
<willcooke> alexarnaud, there was a problem with nouveau drivers yesterday, but yeah, should be totally usable.
<alexarnaud> Does Ubuntu provide alternative to Sid or it's necessar to change the repository after each release ?
<alexarnaud> willcooke: OK :), I will install it for testing on one of my computer
<pitti> alexarnaud: you can use "devel" as series name in apt sources
<pitti> ara: yes, a lot of us are using the devel series on a daily basis, and mostly it's outright boring
<pitti> alexarnaud: ^
<pitti> ara: sorry, wrong ping
<pitti> ara: but hello! :-)
<pitti> alexarnaud: we occasionally run into upgrade failures due to file conflicts, but they are fixed easily enough
<Laney> hey pitti
<Laney> thanks for the uploader check!
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you? good morning
<pitti> Laney: yw!
<darkxst> hey pitti, Laney willcooke larsu
<pitti> Laney: that reminds me, I should remove the email addr and perhaps real name -- we don't need those at all
<pitti> hello darkxst!
<willcooke> hey darkxst
<larsu> "morning" darkxst!
<darkxst> larsu, its evening you know;)
<alexarnaud> hey pitti
<alexarnaud> pitti: thanks you
<larsu> darkxst: hence the quotes
<Laney> pitti: I'm good thanks, got climbing last night for the first time in G_TIME_SPAN_DAY * 6 - feels good!
<Laney> might go again tonight
<Laney> raaargh
<Laney> how are you?
<Laney> & hi darkxst
<Laney> how's upside down land?
<pitti> Laney: oh, how do your arms feel? :-)
<Laney> pitti: arms good, fingers still retain an echo
<darkxst> Laney, I'm good, its Australia day today
<darkxst> so I guess the upside land is doing well
<Laney> another year of holding on by your fingertips and not falling off
<Laney> I'd celebrate that
<darkxst> Laney, well actually did have 1 fall this year! but the gear held ;)
<andyrock> morning
<andyrock> willcooke: how can i try PackageKit?
<willcooke> morning andyrock
<willcooke> andyrock, Robert has a PPA I think, one sec
<willcooke> Laney, do you know where Robert's PPA with G-S in is by any chance
<willcooke> ?>
<Laney> willcooke: ubuntu-desktop/gnome-software ?
<willcooke> ahhh
<willcooke> I was looking in his personal PPAs
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> andyrock, ^^
<andyrock> ð
<andyrock> just fox xenial
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> ah
<willcooke> and your xenial box is b0rked :)
<willcooke> maybe next week ;)
<andyrock> willcooke: if we want to support the full animation we should use AddLauncherItemFromPosition call from gnome-software
<andyrock> otherwise we should drop part of the animation
<willcooke> andyrock, what's involved in doing that? hours/days/weeks/months?
<willcooke> andyrock, also - when you get a moment, could you comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-lens-applications/+bug/1534485
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1534485 in unity-lens-applications (Ubuntu) "Stop using Ubuntu Software Centre reviews database" [Medium,Triaged]
<willcooke> to say that we'll probably have to remove the reviews feature from the dash
<willcooke> and see if anyone has any opinions or other ideas (laney for example might care)
<andyrock> a day (or two) should be enough once I get xenial working here
<andyrock> I'm trying with i386 now
<andyrock> otherwise I'll just  do that in a vbox
<willcooke> thanks andyrock
<Laney> don't really care
<Laney> but maybe robert's code is reusable, might be worth asking
<darkxst> anyone having issues with logitech HID (unifying) drivers?
<andyrock> if g-s supports plugins we might write one to read and export software-centre reviews
<Laney> it has one
<Laney> that's what robert_ancell has been working on lately
<Laney> but I don't know if it is usable by something else
<andyrock> oki I'll take a look later
<darkxst> both my mouse and keyboard are constantly dropping out the last few days ;(
<Sweet5hark> "In other news, the Illuminati are still trying to control the world with chemtrails, and we never actually got to the moon." http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-secretly-changed-ubuntu-orange-color-to-another-orange-499428.shtml
<Sweet5hark> mmmkey
<larsu> "in secret"
<larsu> scoop of the year
<davidcalle> RIP http://dd4814.com
<Laney> RIP?
<davidcalle> Laney: well, it's not relevant anymore :)
<Laney> oh man
<Laney> i just read the quote but not the link
<Laney> nobody updated ambiance and radiance though
<Laney> awesome
 * willcooke starts a thread with John Lea 
<Sweet5hark> Laney: Who cares about ambience, I havent updated the Ubuntu palette in LibreOffice!11!one!eleven
<Laney> you ANIMAL!
<andyrock> willcooke: I managed to install xenial
<willcooke> andyrock,\o/
<andyrock> I had to manually disable nouveau module
<willcooke> erk
<Laney> pitti: should I skip udisks2?
<pitti> Laney: yes, if it's blocking things
<Laney> pitti: it is, but it seems something real is happening so I didn't know if you would rather make it pass instead
<Laney> but ok
<Laney> did $cloud just die?
<didrocks> hey guys!
 * didrocks at CDG, rerouted
<Laney> didrocks!
<Laney> welcome back to the right side
<didrocks> hey Laney :)
<didrocks> heh, indeed! fully jetlagged though :p
<Laney> upgrade?
<didrocks> noâ¦
<Laney> sad
<didrocks> even if they cancelled my second flight
<didrocks> so, now, I'm waiting for a trian
<didrocks> train*
<Laney> is it airfrance?
<didrocks> they were first proposing me another flight CDG -> Lyon tomorrow
<didrocks> (like 1h flight, 2 hours train, yeah, sure, let's wait another day)
<didrocks> so, the strike isn't AF
<Laney> hope you get a refund!
<didrocks> it's the space controllers
<didrocks> well, they did directly pay for the train
<Laney> hah, you strikers
<didrocks> and so the gouverment asked for companies to cut 20% of their flights
<didrocks> the bench is heated though
<didrocks> so, not all is lost :)
<Laney> niceeEee
<willcooke> hey didrocks!
<didrocks> hey willcooke!
<larsu> hi didrocks!
<willcooke> larsu, can you give me any pointers here:  http://imgur.com/KhuZ4Bx
<didrocks> hey larsu ;)
<willcooke> larsu, I'm trying to add a border to the bottom of the tab
<willcooke> what you can see there is what I think is a transparency where the bottom border should be
<willcooke> it's almost like either the border is pushed off the bottom of the tab and so can't be seen, or something is forcing it to be transparent or otherwise hidden
<pitti> heeeey didrocks ! bon rentrÃ© ?
<willcooke> Also, super secret thing:  we're swapping Ubuntu Orange for pink now.  Don't tell anyone.
<pitti> didrocks: urgh, seems not quite, just reading scrollback ..
<pitti> Laney: worker spam> ugh, do I smell network failure in the DC again? :-/
<larsu> willcooke: oh that is weird!
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, not yet, thanks to strikes, but well, could be worse, I have a train as a fallback
<willcooke> larsu, on the screen shot you can see the css I'm using
<pitti> didrocks: I read G+, seems you had a busy time! did you enjoy it?
<larsu> willcooke: I'm inclined to say this is a gtknotebook bug, but let me check
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, it was awesome, like old UDS time! :)
<pitti> cool!
<pitti> didrocks: I'm sure you really yearn for travelling again next weekend already :)
<pitti> xnox: speaking of which, did you see that there's a systemd hackfest on Friday? WDYT about another attempt of these "dynamic presets" to clean up /etc?
<willcooke> larsu, Adwatia is doing what I want to do, which is have the bottom of the tab in a different colour - but I looked at their CSS and it indeed a coloured border, but I just can;t seem to make it work
<larsu> willcooke: yeah seems like it. What exactly do you want to do?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, and chaining with a sprint week in London :p
<larsu> willcooke: ah, ok. Do they maybe color the border of something else?
<willcooke> larsu, I want a slightly thicker, orange border at the bottom of the active tab
<willcooke> looking at their css it's simply border-bottom-color: #decafbad
<larsu> willcooke: indeed. Looking right now if maybe our border-image stuff breaks things
<willcooke> I turned off border-image with border-image: none
<willcooke> or at least, that's what I tried to do
<larsu> willcooke: looks like it's a bug in GeditTabLabel. It draws over ".notebook tab"
<larsu> willcooke: setting a bottom border for GeditTabLabel works for me, but spacing is off
 * larsu hopes all of this gets better with the 3.20 revamp
<willcooke> larsu, I just had a gedit crash, and when I started again, I too seem to have a border, but it looks like it's amost round the label rather than the tab
<larsu> willcooke: yeah I think putting it on the label is the only way right now
<larsu> at least I can't make it do anything else
<willcooke> ahh, kk
<larsu> because the label always overdraws the tab
<willcooke> so I might be able to move it a bit with padding etc
<willcooke> ?
<willcooke> ahhhh
<larsu> I hope?!
<willcooke> larsu, so if I do this:
<willcooke> .notebook {background-color: pink; border-style: solid; border-color: red; border-image: none; border-width: 1px}
<willcooke> I get borders around the tabs, all the way around
<willcooke> except the active tab
<willcooke> which shows no bottom border
 * willcooke checks the selector 
<larsu> probably because there's a rule in the css already that removes borders for :active tabs?
<larsu> pseudoclasses have higher specificity
<larsu> so they overrule whatever you put in the inspectorr
<willcooke> ohh
<willcooke> I thought the inspector had the highest
<willcooke> also, what's a pseudo class?
<willcooke> how would I spot one
<willcooke> ?
<larsu> willcooke: tab:active, :hover, :checked, etc. are pseudo classes, .notebook a "normal" class
<willcooke> ahhh, I see
<willcooke> thanks larsu
<willcooke> I'll keep playing
<larsu> willcooke: this works (ish) for me: GeditTabLabel { border-bottom: 3px solid green;  }
<larsu> .notebook tab { padding-bottom: 0; }
<larsu> but depends on Gedit sadly
<willcooke> nice one, thanks larsu
<willcooke> I think I can tweak that a little and it will do
 * larsu goes for a quick lunch
<larsu> willcooke: yw!
<Sweet5hark> didrocks: https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/691957210830757888 <- seems you are not the only one with interesting travel arrangements today ...
<didrocks> Sweet5hark: yeah, they cut off 20% of flights
<didrocks> so, that makes things "interesting" :)
<didrocks> basically less people to be able to monitor the air traffic
<seb128> hello desktoper friends!
<willcooke> hey seb128!
<willcooke> are you home ok?
<seb128> hey willcooke :-)
<seb128> yes!
<willcooke> jet laged?
<willcooke> ;)
<seb128> not atm but I guess I'm going to feel it in a bit ;-)
<willcooke> hehe
<Laney> pitti: did the secgroups change?
<Laney> I just added one manually and now I can ssh
<Laney> or maybe it coincidentally got fixed
<Laney> because after deleting it ssh still works
<pitti> Laney: I'll check the logs more closely; maybe it's related to the recent sysvinit/i-s-h merges
<pitti> and only occurs on reboot or something
<Laney> pitti: I think it's the kernel
<Laney> just tried an incremental dist-upgrade to proposed
<pitti> Laney: oh, 4.4?
<Laney> and it broke after that one
<Laney> see laney-test in lcy01
<Laney> oh, what, now it works
<pitti> Laney: does it perhaps take several minutes to boot? network failure or so?
<Laney> 30s or so
<pitti> that seems ok
<Laney> pitti: there's a period after reboot --poll returns before it's sshable, but I guess you already account for that?
<pitti> Laney: yes, there's a 5 minute timeout poll loop for ssh
<pitti> Laney: what you see in the spam mails
<pitti> Laney: since we are both connected to tmux now, mind if I poke the logs?
<Laney> oh yeah, the 3 second thing
<Laney> ok
<Laney> i'll get off
<pitti> it's fine, I just don't want to step on your feet
<pitti> Removing openssh-server (1:7.1p2-2) ...
<pitti> o_O
<pitti> Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/14671742/ doesn't look healthy
<pitti> dist-upgrade gone wild
<Laney> what's that from?
<pitti> less log/lcy01-1.log
<pitti> Laney: the log shows the complete adt-run output after tmpfailing three times and committing suicide
<Laney> nod
 * Laney goes to forage
<qengho> Are resize-handles handled differently now in gnome-shell, versus a few months ago? I use x2x to merge two desktops, and the screen edge that transitions to the other display is no longer magic if there is any window close to it.
<qengho> Seems to make window-resize areas into triggers to grab the pointer.
<Sweet5hark> hmmm, trying to setup a vagrant snappy image results in ssh timeout failure on "vagrant up" ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, I guess that's a topic for #snappy :-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: true dat.
<alexarnaud> seb128: holla !
<alexarnaud> how are you ?
<seb128> hey alexarnaud! good, and you?
<alexarnaud> seb128: very good
<alexarnaud> are you the maintainer of gsettins-damon package?
<seb128> one of those I guess
<alexarnaud> seb128: OK
<seb128> why?
<alexarnaud> I need a split of gnome-settings-damon and gnome-settings-daemon-schema for porting to Debian
<alexarnaud> I don't want to change the default gome-settings-daemon in the Debian repository
<seb128> why do you need that?
<alexarnaud> What is the goal of the gnome-settings-daemon-schema package,
<didrocks> home sweet home!
<seb128> didrocks, wb!
<alexarnaud> seb128: I have to put Compiz into Debian
<alexarnaud> didrocks: hey!
<didrocks> hey guys :)
<seb128> alexarnaud, gnome-settings-daemon-schemas is so unity-settings-daemon can use the same schemas as g-s-d without depending on the daemon
<pitti> bonjour seb128, bienvenue retour !
<willcooke> didrocks, are you here for the meeting or out?
<seb128> pitti, salut! ca va ?
<pitti> seb128: Ã§a va bien en fait ! demain je vais aller Ã  BelgiÃ« pour FOSDEM
<alexarnaud> seb128: I see this package as a compiz dependancy, is it useful?
<pitti> seb128: bon rentrÃ¨ ? mieux que celui de didrocks ? :-)
<pitti> rentrÃ©
<seb128> alexarnaud, I guess on Debian it can depends on gnome-settings-daemon if it uses the schemas included there
<seb128> pitti, oui, sans problÃ¨me ;-)
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan 26 15:30:34 2016 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic:
<andyrock> o/
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski, didrocks(out?), fjkong, happyaron(out), hikiko, laney, larsu, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho(out), robert_ancell (out)
<didrocks> willcooke: I'm in another meeting
<larsu> \o
<Sweet5hark> aye
<willcooke> didrocks, ack, thanks
<dgadomski> o/
<Laney> u-p-s just crashed!
<Laney> SICKENING
<larsu> Laney: file a bug. patches welcome :P
 * larsu hides
<Laney> larsu: you missed "works for me"
<larsu> ah!
<larsu> I've never seen it crash
<larsu> you must be doing something wrong
<larsu> what's your theme?
<Laney> clicked the datetime indicator
<Laney> that is not a supported usecase
<davmor2> pebcak
<larsu> ah, haha don't do that, of course
<willcooke> Right. Let's whizz through this
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> hey all
<andyrock> 1. Finished and proposed a branch for startup notifications for unity + bamf
<andyrock> 2. Fixed a bug with dash search hint
<andyrock> 3. Reviewed, fixed and proposed a community patch to add a "Format..." item
<andyrock> 4. Some code reviews
<andyrock> 5. Installed xenail (was not easy)
<seb128> what issue did you hit installing xenial?
<andyrock> 6. Started to take a look to changes that must be done in unity* for gnome-software transition
<andyrock> \eof
<andyrock> seb128: I had to blacklist nouveau
<andyrock> it's segfaulting here
<andyrock> even on a live
<seb128> :-/
<Laney> who knows nouveau?
<Laney> robert?
<seb128> I doubt he does
<willcooke> maybe tjaalton has some ideas?
<seb128> I don't think we have much expertize at Canonical for that
<seb128> or in the ubuntu-x community
 * larsu sings the song of only using intel graphics with linux
 * desrt joins in for the chorus
<andyrock> :D
<tjaalton> could be a mesa bug
<tjaalton> or kernel
<Laney> haha
 * larsu sings louder
<desrt> hells ya, life is good... they opened up the drivers like everyone should!
<larsu> TO MAKE MY POINT CLEARER
<tjaalton> 4.4 isn't in xenial yet
<larsu> desrt: haha!
<tjaalton> intel regresses all the time, consider yourselves lucky then :)
<willcooke> davmor2, do you have a machine with nvidia gfx?
<tjaalton> andyrock: test 4.4 from proposed, or mainline
<davmor2> willcooke: I do
<andyrock> I'll do that thanks
<andyrock> for the moment blacklisting it it's enough for me
<tjaalton> sure
<willcooke> davmor2, can you see if it's broken for you as well?
<willcooke> thanks for the pointers tjaalton
<tjaalton> I doubt nouveau is generally broken, but on some hw
<willcooke> oki, would be good to see if we can narrow it down at all
<willcooke> alright, thanks andyrock.  Lets see if the newer versions are any better
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: attente
<attente> apparmor dconf revisions, submitted again to the apparmor ML...
<attente> revisions and discussions with upstream about the gtk popup menu branch
<attente> discussions with mir team at sprint about menu surface api, clipboard support, keymap support, multi-surface in u8
<attente> fix gtk-mir breakage that happened after the port to GdkSeat api
<attente> switching over to gnome-software for a bit, some basic ubuntu-sso integration with ubuntu-sso-client, but need to re-write this
<attente> (eof)
<willcooke> great stuff, thanks attente
<Laney> sprint report please!
<desrt> ((sorry -- i didn't prepare notes.. i just got to the hotel and am very jetlagged))
<larsu> attente: I hope we are getting PRIMARY selection as well!!!!!1!
<willcooke> attente, you could pretty much copy & paste our conversation from yesterday
<attente> true, let me find that
<willcooke> attente, can you email it round?
<willcooke> once you've edited as needed etc
<davmor2> willcooke: sorry for what 16.04 or 14.04.4
<willcooke> davmor2, 16.04
<attente> yeah, i'll email it around instead
<willcooke> thx
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> ((sorry -- i didn't prepare notes.. i just got to the hotel and am very jetlagged))
<davmor2> willcooke: will do give me 20 minutes or so
<willcooke> davmor2, no immediate hurry
<desrt> but this week larsu and i will be sprinting with gnome
<desrt> and fosdem this weekend
<desrt> hope to see you all there :)
<willcooke> have fun desrt
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey, still no new desktop issues were reported to me
<willcooke> yay!
<dgadomski> :)
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<dgadomski> thanks
<willcooke> #topic FJKong_
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: FJKong_
<FJKong_> * bug#1534492 Can't use fcitx for Chinese with QtCreator
<FJKong_>   fixed,waiting for update
<FJKong_> * tracking bug:
<FJKong_>   can't use IM in one of screen of dual-monitor.
<FJKong_>   need more infomation
<FJKong_> * input method doesn't work after upgrade
<FJKong_>   should be wrong skin problem, still in progress
<FJKong_> eof
<willcooke> great, thanks FJKong_
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> 1. Worked on crash debugging of a sogou crash, handed to Fanjun for after that
<willcooke> 2. Worked on ibus 1.5.12's unexpected ABI incompatibility
<willcooke> 3. SRUs for ubuntukylin were deferred a bit (now it is the on the top
<willcooke> of my list)
<willcooke> 4. Day to day use of new fonts-noto-cjk configuration for several days
<willcooke> and looks all good for upload
<willcooke> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: hikiko
<hikiko> I'm very close to fix the last bugs on shadows. I changed the code to use the existing unity shadow windows and pixmaps instead of quads that had a texture with the shape and this has fixed all the artifacts I had due to the wrong window placement on unity (when I use unity windows compiz can draw them in order even when they are not but this doesn't apply to quads), the problem I have atm is a small bug on rendering: I have a quad with the
<hikiko> shadow texture which I can verify is correct in size, color and alpha because I can store its texture as png image on my disc (screenshot here: https://i.imgur.com/ZoSQqtR.png?1 the cairo.png) but it doesn't appear at all when I draw it on the unity window (black quad around the shaped window in the screenshot), I intend to fix that by tomorrow and do the MP. If I find some time @the future I;ll try to debug the unity windows ordering and
<hikiko> make a proper fix because we might need to add other features in the future. eof
<willcooke> thanks hikiko
<willcooke> will be good to put this one to bed :)
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> â¢ Poked at gnome-software not making use of available appstream metadata, turned out to be a bug in my script :$
<Laney> â¢ Spent a lot of time (again) fixing test regressions to get glib2.0 in - all outstanding ones fixed (sphinx, autopilot, ubuntu-sso-client, others) besides udisks2/ppc64el which was overridden :(
<Laney> â¢ patch piloted :D
<Laney> â¢ uploaded u-s-d u-c-c ubuntu-themes to fix random things - had to revert part of u-s-d (from attente) since it seemed to break some keyboard shortcuts for me, sorry! :'(
<Laney> â¢ fixed broken sessioninstaller :/
<Laney> â¢ poked at some MIRs, libgcab pyotherside :)
<Laney> â¢ set up a local appstream extractor deployment in prep for the sprint :o
<Laney> â¸
<willcooke> awesome, thanks a lot Laney
<willcooke> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: larsu
 * Laney just saw apt downloading at 3,001 PB/s
<larsu> hey! The main two things for me this week were: adding an index to the geonames db, so that it can have multiple known names for a city
<larsu> think London/Londres
<larsu> or Munich/MÃ¼nchen
<larsu> I decided against limiting this to the current locale - to complex and not worth it for the amount of data we have
<larsu> the other one is playing with the completion window again to make it flicker less
<larsu> otherwise same as desrt: going to a hackfest tomorrow (but continue working on this for the most part) and fosdem + mini sprint with Laney after
<larsu> </larsu>
<willcooke> thanks larsu, happy trails
<larsu> thanks :)
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: qengho
<willcooke> humm, he was here a minute a go
<willcooke> we'll come back, because I know he's got a question
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> * travelled to UbuCon/Scale
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> :) thanks seb128
<seb128> yw!
<larsu> haha
<larsu> nice one
<Laney> trip report please!
<seb128> lol
<Sweet5hark> hrhr
<willcooke> qengho, are you back?
<seb128> Laney, I didn't really took note, was more a "meet people & talk with them" than formal presentations
<seb128> qengho is having issues with meetings
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<seb128> well at least he didn't paste his report when it was my turn this time :p
<Sweet5hark> - 5.1.0~rc2 is in the ppa, looks good enough to me to be a initial xenial upload
<Sweet5hark> - work on snappy:
<Sweet5hark> -- got a build to succeed reliably from scratch (hackish though)
<Sweet5hark> -- trying to play with the resulting .snap
<Sweet5hark> -- threw away my old manual VirtualBox VM to use vagrant proper for that
<Sweet5hark> -- couldnt get snappy running in vagrant so far (image seems to loop right in booting the kernel)
<Sweet5hark> - really need to get slides for FOSDEM in shape
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
<seb128> Sweet5hark, great, let me know when you need sponsoring ... and how is your DMB application going?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: urgh
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, if you are stuck on snappy let me know and I can help find someone to unblock you
<Sweet5hark> seb128: how is the DMB application to trip report exchange rate?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, oh, indeed, don't forget to make a trip report after fosdem ;-)
<willcooke> lots of trip reports to read next week then
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yeah
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Prepared pulse 8 for upload to Xenial... Just waiting on the Debian maintainer to upload to experimental, so I can treat it as a merge, should be within a day or so.
<willcooke> * Made changes to the Orca gsettings backend, splitting out some settings a little bit, and adding some descriptions to some settings. Awaiting a response from upstream.
<willcooke> * The a11y profile manager library is functionally complete, now to right a command-line tool to work with it, and the integration code.
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - Phone: Printing with on-demand call of avahi-daemon, cupsd, and cups-browsed finally works, including the shutdown of the daemons, finally works now.
<tkamppeter> - Phone: Wrote a script to demonstrate how the print dialog on the phone is supposed to work.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released 1.8.0 and 1.8.1, cleaning up the COPYING file and the copyright headers of the CUPS-inherited source files, making the Braille printing support work with only dependencies from Ubuntu Main. do not disable queues when avahi-daemon goes away.
<tkamppeter> - Uploaded updated cupd-filters to unblock build of CUPS.
<tkamppeter> - Talked with a volunteer contributor on IRC who wants to add AirPrint (as a client) support to cups-filters and HTTP scanning support to SANE.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> awesome, thanks tkamppeter
<willcooke> looking forward to seeing people printing from Ubuphones soon
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - GNOME Software review feature
<willcooke> - LightDM 1.16.7, 1.17.4 released
<willcooke> - MIRs for GNOME Software
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: qengho
<willcooke> are you back online qengho ?
<willcooke> guess not
<seb128> :-/
<willcooke> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-01-26 | Current topic: aob
<willcooke> Safe and fun travels to all going to FOSDEM etc
<willcooke> once you're back please get started on sprint travel if you havent already
<willcooke> also please think about confs for the next year and fill in the confs sheet
<willcooke> anyone else got anything to share?
<seb128> no
<larsu> seb128: how do you know?
<seb128> larsu, know that?
<seb128> by "no" I meant "not me"
<seb128> if that's what you mean
<seb128> and I know that I don't have anything else to share because I know myself? :p
<willcooke> alright, lets wrap
<willcooke> thanks all
<seb128> thanks!
<willcooke> qengho, if you drop back in let me know
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan 26 16:06:09 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2016/ubuntu-desktop.2016-01-26-15.30.moin.txt
<larsu> seb128: you can't know that everyone else has nothing to share. Just making a logic joke :P
<seb128> :-)
<FJKong_> seb128: hey seb
<seb128> hey FJKong_
<FJKong_> could you help me to check with this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-sdk-ide/+bug/1534492
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1534492 in Ubuntu SDK IDE "Can't use fcitx for Chinese with QtCreator" [Undecided,In progress]
<FJKong_> not sure if someone help to package and release
<seb128> do you have a specific change you need?
<FJKong_> yes, as #6
<FJKong_> work around there as I said in the comment
<seb128> that's not a fix but a workaround
<seb128> I don't know enough about input methods and qtcreator off hand
<seb128> maybe attente has an idea about that
<seb128> he has been dealing with mir/input method issues
<seb128> afaik
<FJKong_> I think patch is just repackage it
<qengho> willcooke: dang! Missed it. I'm an hour off.
<seb128> qengho, no recent dst though?
<seb128> we didn't change the time, it's the same every week...
<qengho> seb128: no change here. I just mis-remembered.
<seb128> you should get one of the calendar technology, I hear they even have reminders and stuff, it's good ;-)
<attente> is that maybe an envvar problem? not sure why it's looking for the im context plugin in the wrong directory
<larsu> haha
<FJKong_> just need to add a link
<qengho> meeting note: * new chromium release, v48. Built, tested, gave to #security.
<attente> but why is it looking in that directory in the first place?
<qengho> meeting note: * snappy testing.
<attente> where should i mail the sprint report? ubuntu-desktop@lists?
<seb128> depend if that's public info
<Laney> assuming it's not sekkrit
<Laney> if it is: snowden@nsa.gov
<seb128> Laney, I can do one but it's going to be "meet some ubuntu people, was nice to spend some time with them", I didn't really take note or work on specific topics
<seb128> I wonder if others are doing one for UbuCon
<Laney> seb128: it's ok, just would have been good to know if something interesting happened
<seb128> I'm going to try to think about it, would be good to a least tell that UbuCon was nice
<seb128> but I guess others' posted about that on g+ at least already
<Laney> attente: doesn't seem secret to me
<attente> ok, i'll send it out to the list as well
<Laney> then you get on cool news sites!
<Laney> fsvo cool :P
<attente> lol
<xnox> pitti, hehe. nope did not see that. I do arrive on friday, i can gate crash i think.
<xnox> pitti, for the presets stuff.. in clearlinux i've ended up dropping all of them and just ship symlinks in /usr/lib to enable things by default in a "distro defaults package"
<Trevinho> Laney: hey
<Trevinho> Laney: how do I make dh to redo certain steps after that I already built everything? I mean, I built with debuild binary, but I changed something in debian/* and I wanted to redo the packaging part without rebuilding
<pitti> Trevinho: normally, dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -b -nc
<Trevinho> I don't see stamps around anymore... Dh should do something smarter since the old days :-P
<pitti> Trevinho: the "-nc" means "no clean", that should keep all the built stuff
<pitti> Trevinho: possibly you have to call dh_prep to clean the debian/<binary> and debhelper leftovers
<Trevinho> it seems to  work, thanks
<Trevinho> oh, actually no :-/
<Trevinho> pitti: well... unfortunately it doesn't seem to do the thing.. :-(
<Laney> Trevinho: try removing debian/*.debhelper.log
<Trevinho> Laney: oh... thanks that works.... BUt it also wants to reconfigure/rebuild
<Laney> yes
<Trevinho> ...and fails :-(
<Laney> it's not really made for incremental building
<Trevinho> but well that's a cmake issue I guess
<Laney> just call the build system yourself if you want that
<Trevinho> well, it used to work when there was stamp files
<Laney> "it" is a different thing
<Trevinho> I only wanted the debian packaging part to go, with no compilation before
<pitti> dh_clean ought to do that; what happens after that and debuild -nc?
<Trevinho> well, I had to clean all since something got broken on cmake side
<davmor2> willcooke: nvidia is working here I can try a fresh install tomorrow but probably won't have time for that today
<Laney> nouveau not nvidia
<davmor2> Laney: ah nouveau might not work it is a prime laptop but I can give it a go
<tkamppeter> hikiko, hi
<Laney> byeeeeeeee
 * pitti waves good night
<larsu> good night pitti!
<pitti> larsu: gute Reise!
<larsu> pitti: danke! Bis Freitag ;)
<Sweet5hark1> g'night all
<larsu> bye Sweet5hark1
<willcooke> larsu, da fuq is dis?  imgur.com/bkmTHfC
<willcooke> http://imgur.com/bkmTHfC
<larsu> a link that my terminal doesn't make clickable
<larsu> haha thanks
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> so
<larsu> ooh
<willcooke> I'm still playing with this underline
<larsu> you should switch to design
<willcooke> no way, this one is awesome
<willcooke> so that little white block at the bottom of the tab
<willcooke> is transparent
<willcooke> and moves with the tab when I drag it
<willcooke> only on the active tab
<willcooke> and hides the bottom border
<willcooke> and I cannot find where its coming from
<willcooke> I've stripped pretty much *everything* out of this theme
<willcooke> no sorry, it's *not* transparent
 * larsu goes digging
<willcooke> I wonder if it's part of the main pane where the text goes
<willcooke> coming up
<willcooke> rather than the tab going down
<flocculant> larsu disg with a transparent shovel - all the rage
<willcooke> I just don't see the appeal
<willcooke> geddit
<willcooke> ;)
<flocculant> ha ha
<flocculant> english sense of humour ftw
<larsu> you are sooo funny
<flocculant> :)
 * larsu actually did laugh
<flocculant> ha ha
<larsu> willcooke: adding a hover rule makes it work :(
<willcooke> is that a pseudo class?
<willcooke> :hover
<larsu> ya
<larsu> willcooke: ah, it's the border
<larsu> borders on ".notebook tab" are broken
<davmor2> larsu: no you don't want the border to hover that needs to be static not floaty ;)
<willcooke> larsu, oki, in which case I think I give up on this then and just say it will be fixed in the future
<willcooke> thanks larsu
<larsu> willcooke: as a workaround, you could set a border on the labe;
<larsu> GeditTabLabel or something
<willcooke> larsu, yeah I tried that earlier, couldn't get it to look right
<larsu> but setting it on the tab itself makes it draw the background higher than it should
<larsu> willcooke: yeah in that case I'd say let's wait if we can
<willcooke> oki, well that actually makes me happy.  Because I thought it was me
<larsu> hehe
<willcooke> Adwatia seems to do it ok, but I guess that's a special case
<larsu> hm indeed
<larsu> willcooke: intriguing ... we seem to trigger some bug. Maybe because of the border-image?
<willcooke> I've switched border-image: none;
<larsu> you've thought of everything ;)
<davmor2> larsu: that's why willcooke is a manager and we lowly mortals
<willcooke> yeah right
<larsu> man, this is tricky!
<davmor2> willcooke: Laney: I'm having no joy triggering nouveau on this laptop so I'll leave it till the morning and fire up a box with an nvidia card in it
<willcooke> thanks davmor2
<larsu> willcooke: no clue, sorry :*
<larsu> s/:*/:(/
<willcooke> larsu, no worries, thanks for taking a lool
<willcooke> look
<willcooke> sorry lool :)
<larsu> hehe
<willcooke> right, that's enough for today
<willcooke> g'night all
<davmor2> Laney: so nouveau from live cd is running but I'll install and let you know for sure tomorrow
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-01-27
<pitti> Good morning
<hikiko> hello
<pitti> hey hikiko, how are you?
<hikiko> hi pitti :)
<Steve_Jobs> can anyone help me diagnose why I can't install a wacom tablet?
<Steve_Jobs> ?
<flocculant> Steve_Jobs: you might be better in #ubuntu that's a support channel
<hikiko> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYWQhB2MB5w
<hikiko> :D
<alexarnaud> hello everyone !
<willcooke> good morning all
<Laney> hi hi
<pitti> hey Laney!
<seb128> hey u.k
<seb128> & pitti
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<pitti> Laney: it's live!
<davmor2> willcooke, Laney: Firing up my nvidia box now
<willcooke> davmor2, thx
<Laney> pitti: nice
<Laney> I bet there's a chance for me to try it on gvfs ;-)
<willcooke> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<willcooke> Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you.  Happy birthday dear Laney! Happy birthday to you.  (c) Disney
<seb128> oh!
<seb128> Laney, happy birthday!
<davmor2> willcooke, Laney: http://people.canonical.com/~davmor2/desktop-screenshots/nouveau.png
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> i iz old
<Laney> thanks davmor2!
<willcooke> davmor2, hurmph.  andyrock ^^ seems to work there
<willcooke> thanks davmor2
<davmor2> Laney: no your not popey iz old :D
<willcooke> harsh
<willcooke> but fair
<davmor2> willcooke: he is a year older than me though and I'm normally one of the oldest in the room so he must be
<willcooke> I'm snapping at your heels
<Laney> pitti: do you know why gvfs was tested against the new nemo on some arches?
<davmor2> willcooke, Laney: also remember that if the user with the issue is running a much newer card that the nouveau team might not of reverse engineered it yet
 * Laney would rather not fix that problem
<Laney> err, the other way around
<Laney> YKWIM
<willcooke> davmor2, ah, yeah I expect andyrock has a newish card.  Let's see once he's online
<davmor2> willcooke: also I got to try out the add a password to disable secureboot because you chose to install 3rd party drivers, still not sure how microsoft work around that but hey :) That seems to work on hardware which is what I wanted to test :)
<willcooke> neat
<willcooke> not sure I know what that is, but sounds like no work for us, so.. yay!
<davmor2> willcooke: if you in the install your select 3rd party drivers, or on system update and have secureboot enable it pops up a notice saying that because you are selecting that you can't use secureboot anymore and asks for a password to disable it I'll grab you a screenshot later from vm
<davmor2> willcooke: http://people.canonical.com/~davmor2/desktop-screenshots/secureboot-warning.png  you get a similar warning on apt full-upgrade and on dist-upgrades too I would imagine although that would still need testing
<Laney> where does learn more go to?
<davmor2> Laney: one second I'll find out
<pitti> Laney: gvfs/nemo: perhaps nemo was uploaded aroud the same time, and the build took longer on arm/s390x?
<Laney> pitti: right, but the trigger should have been against the release version?
<Laney> it didn't migrate
<pitti> Laney: oh -- it still ran yesterday
<pitti> Laney: until yesterday I had apt pinning disabled on scalingstack
<pitti> Laney: due to the init-system-helpers/sysvinit lockstep thing (still remember?)
<pitti> I re-enabled pinning this morning
<davmor2> Laney: http://people.canonical.com/~davmor2/desktop-screenshots/learnmore.png
<Laney> pitti: bleh
<pitti> Laney: re-running ought to work, though
<pitti> Laney: want to try the clicky-clicky rerun?
<Laney> pitti: I will do, if it's going to use nemo from xenial-release :)
<pitti> Laney: yes, apt pinning is back on
<Laney> I couldn't remember if run-autopkgtest ... foo uses the newest foo all the time or if you need a trigger to take the proposed version
<pitti> Laney: you don't specify the version of the test, just of the trigger
<Trevinho> Morning
<pitti> Laney: if you add a fake trigger for foo, it'll use -proposed, otherwise release
<Trevinho> Jetlag almost fixed. Hopefully
<Laney> pitti: indeed, I forgot what that meant
<Laney> hi Trevinho
<Trevinho> Laney: hi
<Laney> what's crackin'
<davmor2> Laney, willcooke: obviously I'll need to test that line on really hardware so I wonder if my Lenovo is using broadcom wifi if not then I know the xps13 does
<willcooke> hi Trevinho
<davmor2> s/really/real
<Laney> davmor2: is this because of signed kernel modules?
<davmor2> Laney: I assume so and that it is using secureboot correctly now
<willcooke> anyone having connection issues to Canonical IRC server?
<davmor2> Laney: but it does still raise the question of how does Windows get around it, I assume all the drivers for windows are signed too so they can just be added, but I still would of thought that, that would of changed the kernel key
<pitti> Laney: ah, so apparently that worked for you
<Laney> pitti: indeed!
<seb128> willcooke, wfm
<pitti> Requester: laney
<willcooke> seb128, thx
<Laney> pitti: a button to do all arches at once would be nice ;-)
<Laney> anyways
<Laney> yay for self service retries
<seb128> indeed!
<willcooke> seb128, I've got no menus in Gedit.  But then I've been messing around with it.  Is that a known issue?
<seb128> willcooke, do you have local menus enabled?
<willcooke> seb128, ah
<willcooke> seb128, thanks
<seb128> I guess that's a "yes"?
<seb128> gedit use GTK CSD and no compiz bar so no integrated menus in that case
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> I remember now
<willcooke> sorry
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> we need to fix that one before release...
<willcooke> yeah
<seb128> bug #1518516 for the record
<ubot5> bug 1518516 in gedit (Ubuntu Xenial) "ubuntu session option "Show the menus for a window > In the windows title bar" loses menus in gedit" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1518516
<willcooke> oh yeah, so.. don't know if you remember - design asked for a coloured bottom border on the active tab in a notebook (e.g. gedit tabs) to show the active tab
<willcooke> well, turns out that we might have found a bug, and so it can't be done
<pitti> Laney: and OMG, dude!!!
<pitti> Laney: happy 30th! *hug*
 * pitti hugs Laney and tosses a virtual beer
<Laney> haha!
<Laney> thanks pitti
<pitti> grouphug!
 * Laney is now going to start making groaning noises
<Laney> sooooo olddddddd
<pitti> just take your heart pills every day, and it will be good *cough* *cough* !
<pitti> Laney: did you get something nice this morning? breakfast, cake, presents, snarky comments about the big three-ooh?
<seb128> willcooke, :-/
<chrisccoulson> Happy birthday Laney. Welcome to the old peoples' club :)
<pitti> seb128, willcooke: some hugs for the old man, SVP
<seb128> pitti, willcooke sang happy birthday on this channel earlier ;-)
<Laney> pitti: I got some fruit trees to plant outside
<seb128> but yeah, hugs are a nice idea
<Laney> going out for a meal later
 * seb128 hugs Laney
<Laney> \o\
 * Laney hugs seb128 and pitti
<pitti> seb128: ah indeed! was offline at that time (train rides..)
<Laney> http://www.thelarderongoosegate.co.uk/menus/january%20a%20la%20carte%20web.pdf
<Laney> ^- going there
 * Laney doesn't know what all of the words on that menu mean
<pitti> Laney: neither do I, but I do comprehend "steak"!
<Laney> \o/
<pitti> Laney: like, I don't know what a John Dory is -- sounds awfully cannibalistic
<Laney> local villain of the week?
<pitti> hah
<pitti> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dory
<pitti> it's a fish!
<Laney> iiiiiiiiinteresting
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> hey didrocks
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<seb128> what time is your clock on now? ;-)
<seb128> had a good night?
<pitti> bonjour didrocks !
<didrocks> seb128: had a long night (like 14h), but I guess not enough yet to take over the sleep deprevation of last week
<didrocks> seb128: how about you!
<didrocks> ?
<didrocks> hey pitti!
<seb128> waouh, crazy
<seb128> for some reason I didn't feel tired yesterday afternoon/evening
<seb128> just almost fall asleep in early afternoon and then it was over
<seb128> I slept from 23h to 9h15
<pitti> 14h! wow, that's like two nights
<seb128> I didn't manage to shake out the start of cold though
<didrocks> seb128: well, you did sleep well there :)
<didrocks> argh
<seb128> turned into a real cold :-/
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, basically slept an average of 4h for the past week
<pitti> so, FOSDEM, next opportunity to exchange germs!
<seb128> yeah, I just didn't sleep much in the plane
<didrocks> pitti: couldn't sleep in the plane at all as well
 * pitti has managed to not get a cold since last May, crossing fingers..
<seb128> usually skipping a night makes it difficult to stay up until the evening
<pitti> yeah, I usually drink lots of strong tea or coke in that afternoon to stay awake
<didrocks> seb128: whenever you got a minute, mind reviewing session-shorcouts?
<seb128> didrocks, sure can
<didrocks> I would like to finish that task this week if possible (MIRing, adding the depâ¦)
<didrocks> thx!
<seb128> but I'm about to go, I've an appointement at 12, going to do that once I'm back
<didrocks> sure
<pitti> Laney: the nemo thing worked, didn't it? gvfs isn't on excuses.html any more, it was gvfs, rigth?
<Laney> pitti: indeed!
<pitti> I'm close to the Belgian border now, and thus will drop offline soon; see you again in some two hours!
<Laney> bleg
<andyrock> morning
<didrocks> hey andyrock!
<willcooke> hey andyrock
 * Laney pins vim
<Laney> new version turns off python2 which breaks plugins written in py2
<Laney> including ones in archive
<Laney> :|
<davmor2> Laney: I was going to ask barry about that but didn't see him online our vim build is built against python plugin bits which is really useful but not on the system with no python 2 anymore
<davmor2> Laney: is there even a python3 version of vim build we can use?  or will be a case of dropping the pythony bit
<Laney> davmor2: there is python3
<Laney> you have to choose between python2 and python3
<Laney> they just flipped it
<Laney> which means that some things go from working to broken
 * Laney apt-mark hold vim at ubuntu2
<davmor2> Laney: right okay
<tkamppeter> hikiko, hi
<hikiko> hi tkamppeter
<hikiko> thanks for the email :)
<tkamppeter> hikiko, I hope this helps, this is all my experience with ordering stuff to locations where I travel to.
<hikiko> well, what I wanted to do was slightly different but stefanie pointed out who I should ask so it helped in any case :D thank you :)
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: so, installed the libreoffice snap the first time, hacked around with some LD_LIBRARY_PATH foo and git it down to ldd only missing libGL.so. Now building with mesa added to the snap ...
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, thanks.  How big is mesa?
<Sweet5hark> dunno what it will end up adding. However, when I told you a number last time I didnt have xorg and xmir in it already -- compared to those, mesa will be neglectable I assume.
<Sweet5hark> current snap is 417MB (with XMir)
<ricotz> welcome to the world of windows
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, did you get my diff? also remember to push the packaging change so I would be able to give a real patch for credits
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: we are not quite there yet. we are there when we update a 500MB download for a 1 bit security change in one lib ...
<ricotz> exactly, so this seems to be getting ridiculous, doesn't it?
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, https://paste.debian.net/plain/367431
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: saw the diff, was merged already (and yes, I did --author it to you) ..
 * Sweet5hark shrugs
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, thanks
<Sweet5hark> lol, installing npms is like a vacation with kids: 20% of time spend in a module called are-we-there-yet (aka the progress bar) https://github.com/npm/npm/issues/11283#issuecomment-175246823
<gQuigs> Sweet5hark: is the snap apparmored?  does it work with the LO splash screen?
<gQuigs> is it using the same apparmor profile I've been working on our something else?
<Sweet5hark> gQuigs: currently not caring at all about apparmor, sorry
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: FWIW: ./soffice.bin --help works -- but not much else yet.
<gQuigs> Sweet5hark: oh, I thought snaps couldn't be deployed unconstrained
<seb128> shrug, just spent an hour on the phone debugging a non ubuntu system
<seb128> fs was mounted ro
<seb128> a non *booting* ubuntu system
<seb128> turned out that renaming a disk in "disks" created the issue, yeah for easy way to bug your system :-/
<larsu> :(
<willcooke> erk
<willcooke> how old was the install?  I mean we've been using disk UUIDs for a loooong time
<willcooke> unless the name effects the uuid?
<seb128> that's a new LTS install
<willcooke> erk
<seb128> and fstab had no useful content
<seb128> e.g no UUID line
<seb128> I wonder how / was even mounted
<seb128> but the system worked fine before the disk rename
<seb128> after the rename the / was ro
<seb128> which is enough for lightdm to not start :-/
<seb128> the desk was starting after a remount,rw
<davmor2> willcooke, seb128: sounds like something to have a play with in vm
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> Trevinho: once you are around, please have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/unity/dep-session-shorcuts/+merge/284159 (should be straightforward) for including in next landing
<didrocks> Trevinho: do you have any bot merging directly? I doubt you reviewed and I see that 3 minutes later, this was marked as "merged"
<didrocks> (and I just did push to lp:~didrocks/unity/dep-session-shorcuts, just checked again)
 * qengho away a while.
<willcooke> quittin' time.  night all
<davmor2> Laney: do you know what drive they renamed, I tried with a partition no change at least on 14.04.4
<davmor2> Laney: ignore me it was seb128
<seb128> davmor2, the only drive/partition
<seb128> thanks for testing
<davmor2> seb128: hmm I'll have a try with 16.04 tomorrow do you happen to know if it was 32 or 64 bit and if uefi was involved or not?
<seb128> 64 bit
<seb128> not sure about uefi, it's a custom desktop config, so probably not
<davmor2> seb128: right I'll have a play on a none uefi setup in the morning and see if I can reproduce it then :)
<seb128> thanks!
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-01-28
<hikiko> hello
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<flocculant> hi didrocks
<pitti> bonjour didrocks ! as-tu dormi mieux ?
<didrocks> hey flocculant
<didrocks> bonjour pitti, un peu sommeil, mais Ã§a va, et toi ?
<pitti> didrocks: Ã§a va bien, salut de Louvain !
<didrocks> tu as fait un bon voyage hier ?
<pitti> didrocks: oui, pas de problÃ¨me, les trains Ã©taient ponctuels et calmes
<pitti> mon bureau roulant :)
<didrocks> hehe :)
<larsu> morning!
<seb128> hey larsu
<seb128> how is pre-fosdem?
<larsu> seb128: great! Brussels is even sunny this morning
<larsu> (as opposed to last night)
<seb128> same here ;-)
<larsu> haha that's because you're right around the corner :P
<seb128> :-)
 * seb128 makes some coffee
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey willcooke
<larsu> morning willcooke
<didrocks> morning willcooke
<Laney> hey thar
<didrocks> hey, it's a Laney!
<larsu> morning Laney!
<seb128> hey Laney
<Laney> hi europeans!
<larsu> Laney: uh oh. Already given up on Europe over there?
<Laney> VOTE LEAVE
<Laney> HAHA
<Laney> I just visited their website to link you to it
<Laney> http://voteleave.eu
<larsu> Laney: nice!
<Laney> think I got confused though
<Laney> there's http://leave.eu/ and http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/
<Laney> worst domain ever
<Laney> also doesn't work on firefox for me
<pitti> hey Laney!
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> salut pitti
<Laney> hey pitti
<Laney> how's belgium?
<larsu> morgen pitti!
<larsu> Laney: sunny
<seb128> larsu, how is the hackfest?
<larsu> seb128: lots of random discussion this morning
<larsu> something about symbol versioning and glib types right now
 * larsu shrugs
<seb128> larsu, any chance to bring the topic of having an hint to hide csd decoration of maximized windows?
<seb128> or not the right people for that?
<larsu> seb128: not really (mclasen isn't here)
<larsu> seb128: but I'll ask
<seb128> thanks
<Trevinho> Good morning!
<seb128> hey Trevinho!
<seb128> how are you?
<Trevinho> seb128: quite good. You?
<larsu> morning Trevinho
<seb128> Trevinho, I'm good thanks :-)
<Trevinho> Hi larsu, morning!
<didrocks> hey Trevinho!
<Trevinho> didrocks: about that unity branch. I've no bot. Something weird happened.
<Trevinho> didrocks: hey, by the way
<didrocks> Trevinho: how are things going?
<Trevinho> didrocks: Allright, you?
<didrocks> I'm fine, thanks!
<didrocks> ready to travel again tomorrow now :)
<pitti> didrocks: pas plus de jetlag ? c'est bien !
<seb128> just have a good night to deal with those ;-)
<didrocks> pitti: de longues nuits, mais pas rÃ©veillÃ© tÃ´t au moins :)
<tjaalton> a recent upgrade broke the terminal scrollbar, it has a grey backgound now instead of being "transparent"
<tjaalton> libvte perhaps
<willcooke> tjaalton, would you mind logging a bug?
<tjaalton> willcooke: sure
<willcooke> thanks
<Laney> probably the last theme upload
<tjaalton> yep, downgrading light-themes fixed it
<tjaalton> filed 1539055
<willcooke> #1539055
<willcooke> bug 1539055
<ubot5> bug 1539055 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "latest update broke overlay scrollbar on terminals" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1539055
<alexarnaud> hello everybody
<alexarnaud> hikiko, Trevinho : are you available?
<Trevinho> alexarnaud: hi, yes
<alexarnaud> Ok, good
<hikiko> alexarnaud, I was about to go for lunch
<alexarnaud> I've a bug with CCSM 0.9.12.0
<alexarnaud> I'm trying to configure it with GSettings on Mate environnement
<alexarnaud> everything work very good expect for main menu (ALT+F1) and run command (ALT+F2)
<alexarnaud> Do you have an idead of why ?
<alexarnaud> If I try to configure it on CCSM, it configure the keys and deconfirue it instantly
<alexarnaud> Trevinho: Do you know this issue?
<hikiko> maybe they are reserved by something else?
<hikiko> another plugin?
<alexarnaud> The Mate plugin for Compiz is not bundle in this version
<hikiko|ln> I ll be back in a while
<hikiko|ln> Mate plugin?
<alexarnaud> hikiko|ln: Yes, in the last code of Compiz I see a mate compat plugin
<alexarnaud> hikiko|ln: what is the goal of it ?
<Trevinho> alexarnaud: oh... Honestly I don't know what it might happen
<Trevinho> alexarnaud: maybe is that used by some other plugin that is enabled? It should say something by the way
<alexarnaud> Trevinho: it says nothing
<Trevinho> alexarnaud: have you tried to change that from pure gsettings?
<alexarnaud> Yes, I give it from my override file but they appear like disabled
<alexarnaud> The screenshot key however works perfectly
<alexarnaud> Trevinho: In my version of Compiz everything in GSettings and Compiz must work ?
<alexarnaud> Trevinho: I see plugin named "matecompat" in the latest version that is present in the 0.9.12.0
<alexarnaud> Trevinho: So I'll retry more to find the best way to solve the issue
<alexarnaud> Thanks everyone
<alexarnaud> I've only few percent of battery, I need to disconect me. See you soon
<willcooke> larsu, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-themes/14.04+16.04.20160120-0ubuntu1
<willcooke> where could I see an example of that through-drawing on web kti?
<willcooke> kit
<larsu> willcooke: devhelp or epiphany
<willcooke> thx
<larsu> let me know if you run into problems
<larsu> I think that patch should fix it though
<willcooke> larsu, https://launchpad.net/bugs/1539055
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1539055 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "latest update broke overlay scrollbar on terminals" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> makes the scrollbars elsewhere have the wrong colour backgrounds
<larsu> ugh. bad.
<larsu> willcooke: seems like it's a different issue (last comment...)
<larsu> ah it does show a different background for me as well
<larsu> are we sure it didn't do that before?
 * larsu can't imagine this fix breaking that
<willcooke> what's that, having a solid background behind an OL scroll bar?
<larsu> ya
<larsu> on terminal
<willcooke> I wondered that as well, firing up a W machine to see
 * willcooke . . o O ( It's a feature not a bug )
<larsu> thanks :)
<larsu> probably we want to fix that
<larsu> but at least we can keept the webkit fix for now
<Laney> it is that
<larsu> Laney: stop ruining my fun!
<willcooke> http://imgur.com/3oRPpYL
<Laney> soooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyy
<larsu> Laney: are you sure? willcooke is seeing it on W as wel
<larsu> *well
<Laney> that screenshot doesn't show the bug
<Laney> put the mouse off it
<Laney> and yes, it's easy to comment out the lines in the theme to see
<Laney> :(
<larsu> :(
<larsu> Laney: I'll have a look (but probably not this afternoon)
<willcooke> http://imgur.com/Fyhxo3l
<Laney> ya
<willcooke> larsu, ok if I assign that one to you for now then?
<larsu> ya
<willcooke> thx larsu
<larsu> Sweet5hark: you in Brussels yet? There's a libreoffice hackfest next door...
<Sweet5hark> larsu: nope, didnt want yet-another-extra-night-on-Canonical-expenses. I will arrive with the first flight tomorrow.
<larsu> Sweet5hark: awesome. see you in the morning then ;)
<Sweet5hark> larsu: say hi to them for me! (lets see if that roundtrips back to me on #libreoffice) ;)
<larsu> Sweet5hark: I would shout over to mmeeks, but he seems very busy with conversation ;)
<Sweet5hark> larsu: as usual!
<Laney> larsu: looks like you can just set a different rule for TerminalScreenContainer .scrollbar
<Laney> there's already some of those in apps/gnome-terminal.css
<larsu> is terminal the only one with that problem?
<willcooke> I think it shows up there because of the dark background
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> umm
<willcooke> larsu, Laney - could you try something....
<willcooke> open Nautilus, open /bin or something with lots of stuff in
<willcooke> expand the window to say 4 or 5 cols of icons
<Laney> looks like it, I don't see in gedit anyway
<willcooke> mouse over the scroll bar, all fine
<willcooke> now resize to a small horizontally as you can
<willcooke> here it's 2 cols
<willcooke> no more scroll bar
<willcooke> expand to 3 cols, scroll bar back again
<willcooke> just me?
<larsu> works for me :/
<willcooke> I'll reinstall this box next week anyway and I'll try it again
<davmor2> willcooke: I see it in today live cd
<willcooke> thanks davmor2
<willcooke> I'll open a bug
<willcooke> seems to be just Nautilus
<davmor2> willcooke: it looks like it stop displaying if you drag in the side as far as it will go, anything short of that and it displays
<willcooke> hummmmmmm
<willcooke> now I've moved the separator between the right and left sides of the window
<willcooke> I can only get down to 3 cols
<willcooke> and it always shows
<willcooke> yeah, I can see the scrollbar getting pushed off the side of the window
<davmor2> willcooke: if you take it in all the way and then slowly move it back out before you get back up to 3 it displays just trying to screenshot it
<davmor2> willcooke: http://people.canonical.com/~davmor2/desktop-screenshots/2columns-noscroll.png and http://people.canonical.com/~davmor2/desktop-screenshots/2columns-scroll.png
<willcooke> thx davmor2
<willcooke> I think we need a video to demo it really, but, we're going to be rolling back to the previous version of Nautilus anyway
<willcooke> so I'll try it again then
<davmor2> willcooke: do the same thing with logviewer
<davmor2> willcooke: ah nevermind it work if you remove the yellow label just not until you do
<qengho> Hi. May I have a sponsor for upload to x and perhaps to debian? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-utils/+bug/1518053
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1518053 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "xdg-mime can read .config/ defaults but can never set them" [Medium,Confirmed]
<qengho> And another for upload to x only? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1527727
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1527727 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub-probe for zfs assumes all devices prefix with /dev, ignoring /dev/disk/..." [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> cyphermox, ^ can you maybe help on the grub one?
<cyphermox> sure
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> didrocks you said you would re-review the xdg-utils update/merge iirc?
<didrocks> seb128: I don't think I clearly acked on it TBH
<didrocks> and I doubt I'll have time in the coming weeks TBH :/
<seb128> k
<seb128> wasn't Laney doing a patch pilot this week? ;-)
<Laney> did it on monday
<davmor2> willcooke, seb128: so I've tried a bunch of installs on 16.04 and 14.04.4 and renamed the main partition as moo and it still boot and everything on the file system seems the same, root own everything under / d owns /home/d and I could touch files in /tmp/ ~ and home ~/Documents after reboot
<willcooke> thanks a lot davmor2
<seb128> davmor2, ok, thanks for trying
<seb128> I wonder what went wrong in that install
<seb128> weird that fstab was empty :-/
<davmor2> seb128: oh I just thought your friend French by any chance?
<davmor2> seb128: I wonder if it was named with an accented character at all?
<seb128> davmor2, no, but the setup might have been a bit more complex
<seb128> disks have been changed on the machine
<davmor2> seb128: that's true too
<seb128> fstab had a comment saying that / was /dev/sdb1
<seb128> but in fact it was /dev/sda1
<seb128> but / was correctly mounted before the label change
<davmor2> yeah that won't help :)
<seb128> so I wonder if something was fallbacking on finding the partition by label or something
<qengho> cyphermox: Yes, I talked to grub upstream. I explained in a comment. They don't want the patch because they think the right thing is to include a library that that has an incompatible license.
<qengho> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1527727/comments/8
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1527727 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub-probe for zfs assumes all devices prefix with /dev, ignoring /dev/disk/..." [Medium,Confirmed]
<cyphermox> but that patch makes some sense even outside of the zfs use case
<cyphermox> sorry, I hadn't parsed the comment that way
<cyphermox> I'll pull the patch on Debian if cjwatson has no objection
<qengho> cyphermox: paraphrasing, "We don't want to try all the permutations. We can't predict where block devices could be universally always, so we don't want to cover any additional cases at all.!
<cyphermox> bah
<cyphermox> qengho: do you have a link to the thread?
<qengho> cyphermox: http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?43653#comment4
<cyphermox> ah, cool, thanks
<mhall119> bregma: willcooke: https://twitter.com/FrancescoPonzin/status/692742919485263874 can we put Remmina (or something like it) on the short list of early app targets?
<mhall119> the use-case for it is one I hadn't thought about, but makes so much sense
<willcooke> mhall119, it should work today in Libertine
<willcooke> otherwise you're gonna need Mir support in there
<bregma> we actually had the Citrix client also working in Libertine at some point, haven't tested lately
<willcooke> taa daa
<willcooke> :D
 * willcooke assumes bregma has a trigger on libertine 
<mhall119> bregma: oh, would you happen to have a screenshot of that?
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> I see bregma was already on mhalls message
<bregma> hmm, no, all my screenshots are of it not working
<willcooke> ha
<qengho> bregma: is that a public name, libertine?
<bregma> qengho, I suppose so, it's Free software available in the Ubuntu archives
<bregma> we do not hide that we're libertines, in fact we're kind of proud
<qengho> bregma: a pride-worthy definition is not the one I think of first.
<bregma> well, the name came from the fact that it allows you to run unconfined applications without any kind of restraint, which can do unmentionable things to your system
<bregma> but with Libertine, that gets confined to a sandbox so it's (mostly) harmless
<qengho> bregma: all right. carry on.
<didrocks> see you tomorrow guys!
<Sweet5hark> Oh, wow I retweeted CmdrTaco and he liked the tweet. Im a 1990ies Linux superstar!
<bschaefer> pitti, hello, i was told you could help we re-start this process? https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/static/britney/xenial/landing-010/excuses.html
<pitti> bschaefer: which process?
<bschaefer> as britney seems to have failed (from a seemingly flaky test)
<qengho> Sweet5hark: Imagine a beowulf cluster of retweets!
<bschaefer> pitti, automated test for landing
<Sweet5hark> qengho: I, for one, welcome our new retweeting robotic overlords!
<pitti> bschaefer: restarted (I think)
<bschaefer> pitti, awesome thanks!
<bschaefer> worst case we can rebuild everything again
<willcooke> g'night gang
<attente> robert_ancell: hey, i had to switch it to use plaintext signing because that was the only way to submit a review to the rnr server
<robert_ancell> attente, which one?
<attente> the current one on production
<robert_ancell> huh, I thought that wasn't working
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-01-29
<duflu> Hey all, this update seems to be broken. Can we revert please? android-headers (23-0ubuntu1) xenial; urgency=medium
<duflu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/android-headers/+bug/1539338
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1539338 in android-headers (Ubuntu) "Mir fails to build on xenial today: android_graphic_buffer_allocator.h:23:31: fatal error: hardware/hardware.h: No such file or directory" [Critical,New]
<duflu> RAOF: ^ ?
<duflu> The changelog says it has symlinks for compatibility. But it doesn't
<duflu> kgunn ^ ?
<duflu> robert_ancell: ^ who do I pester for this?
<robert_ancell> duflu, no idea, sorry
<robert_ancell> duflu, I would have asked kdub
<duflu> robert_ancell: It's not the contents of the package that's broken, just its installation method (missing symlinks) that faenil changed
<duflu> So not a kdub thing
<robert_ancell> I have no idea who manages the android stuff in Ubuntu
<duflu> robert_ancell: Basically I'm just asking for a revert from the archive. Back to the previous working version
<robert_ancell> duflu, well, you should probably get the uploader to fix it, otherwise an archive admin if it was critical
<duflu> Oh, except upgrades won't see that. We'd need another update or something
<RAOF> duflu: Now back from lunch, hm. That seems suboptimal!
<RAOF> (Incidentally, this is why Mir should have DEP-8 tests)
<duflu> RAOF: Yeah I also have a workaround/fix for Mir proposed now.
<RAOF> I'll just upload a fixed package.
<duflu> Although suspect android-headers retains the right to break things as time goes on
<duflu> Which we will always need to follow
<duflu> I would like us to be able to #include <android/...> as we do right now. The change to android-headers breaks that though
<duflu> arguably breaks it correctly. But that doesn't help Mir to be buildable on wily and vivid still
<duflu> Dear Ubuntu: Stop breaking things
<duflu> kthxbye
<RAOF> android-headers is a package entirely of our creation. If we don't want it to break things it doesn't have to.
<duflu> Maybe Mir needs to return to internal copies of android-headers...
<duflu> If it's an Ubuntu-only package then that's another good reason. Long term, Mir should not depend on things that only exist in Ubunt8u
<duflu> Ubuntu too
<RAOF> Oh, of course.
<RAOF> It's an upgrade bug.
<hikiko> hello
<pitti> Bonjour tout le monde !
<didrocks> good morning
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<seb128> hey willcooke
<willcooke> how goes the travel so far?
<willcooke> Are you just about to leave?
<seb128> leaving after lunch for me
<didrocks> leaving in 30 minutes for me
<larsu> morning!
<seb128> hey larsu!
<willcooke> hey larsu
<seb128> how is Brussel today?
<larsu> bonjour seb128 and willcooke!
<larsu> seb128: hackfest is smaller (or it's too early)
<larsu> everyone's hacking
<seb128> how many people came to the hackfest?
<larsu> seb128: about 25-30 I think
<seb128> waouh
<seb128> crazy
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, seb128, et larsu ! salut de Bruxelles !
<seb128> larsu, is that the record of people at a GTK hackfest from all times?
<larsu> pitti: salut and welcome :)
<didrocks> bonjour pitti !
<larsu> seb128: dunno - haven't been to all of them :D
<seb128> k, usually it seemed to be less than 10 people
<larsu> seb128: I think the one 2 years ago was similar in size. Colocating it with FOSDEM certainly helps
<Laney> hi
<Laney> and bye!
<larsu> morning Laney!
<pitti> hey Laney!
<larsu> enjoy your trip
<Laney> just checking that ssh is all set up :P
<seb128> hey Laney, safe trip!
<didrocks> morning and bye Laney :)
<pitti> heh, only 5 people at the systemd hackfest so far :)
<seb128> larsu, did RH just hired another 50 people to work on GTK? ;-)
<Laney> see you in $hours!
<didrocks> same Laney!
<seb128> 25 people is a crazy number for an hackfest
<pitti> Laney: safe trip!
<larsu> seb128: haha I don't think so
<seb128> k :-)
<larsu> pitti: better than last year, when it was *packed*
<seb128> larsu, pitti, are your hackfest close from each others?
<seb128> larsu, be nice, send some people to pitti :-)
<larsu> lol
<larsu> not really
<pitti> 7 mins walking from Buxelles Central
<didrocks> my train is still near MontÃ©limar, I should be able to walk the 1km between the station and my home before it arrives in Lyon: http://bit.ly/1QJUblM
<larsu> systemd is in the center
<larsu> we're 6 or so stations out east
<seb128> didrocks, oh, sncf has real time tracking now?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, for some trains ;)
<seb128> nice
<faenil> duflu: I changed? symlinks? where?
<duflu> faenil: android-headers backward compatibility was broken (presumably because the symlinks you mentioned don't exist). RAOF fixed it and I fixed Mir to work around it too.
<duflu> No problem now
<faenil> duflu: I'm puzzled...sorry...let me have a look at the bug
<faenil> I didn't touch anything..
<duflu> faenil: /usr/include/android is empty. Also not a symlink.  :)
<duflu> So existing users broke
 * didrocks now goes, see you in Brussels for most of you!
<faenil> didrocks: see you there!
<faenil> duflu: are you sure you're talking about me?
<duflu> faenil: Oh crap. Sorry! Somehow I confused you for morphis
<duflu> Too many things going on
<faenil> duflu: gah, I had a heart attack! :D
<duflu> Luckily for me EOW soon
<faenil> I saw you talking to RAOF and I was like "I don't even know what that package is about..." XD
<duflu> Heh
<faenil> but since I've been reporting plenty of bugs lately I thought maybe my bad memory tricked me :D
 * faenil calms down 
<willcooke> mega lolz
<willcooke> hikiko,  you know how I said "there's very little chance of a regression....."
<willcooke> by desktop environment just crashed out and put me back at the login screen
<willcooke> *my
<willcooke> That's probably because I was playing with ccsm
<didrocks1> on the train again \o/
<larsu> didrocks1: yay
<duflu> willcooke: After spending a couple of years maintaining Compiz I can confidently say hikiko could not have broken it significantly more than it already was :)
<willcooke> duflu, :D
<duflu> willcooke: Reloading Compiz plugins is dangerous. And the reason is usually the plugin called unityshell. It gives Compiz a bad name.
<willcooke> haha
<duflu> And some others, I forget
<willcooke> We're revisiting this one:
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1293384
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1293384 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Compiz CPU usage dramatically increased in Ubuntu 14.04" [Medium,Triaged]
<duflu> Yay. I don't want to know.
 * duflu -> weekend
<willcooke> :D
<duflu> o/
<willcooke> duflu, I'll ask you on Monday, it's fine
<willcooke> darn
<hikiko> willcooke, did you fix it?
<hikiko> or is it still broken?
<willcooke> hikiko, oh, it was just a crash, ain't no thing
<willcooke> I was dicking around with CCSM
<hikiko> :)
<andyrock> morning
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<didrocks1> willcooke: my beautiful warning first time you start CCSM isn't there for nothing :p
<didrocks1> hey andyrock
<willcooke> didrocks1, :D:D:D
 * didrocks is quite impressed with the 4G keeping the connection on the TGV (we are at full speed now)
<willcooke> nice!
<larsu> didrocks: what happens when you cross the border? :P
<seb128> he becomes didrocks_
<larsu> lol
<didrocks> larsu: I don't plan to stop at Strasbourg :p
<didrocks> #troll
<larsu> hah
<larsu> ts ts ts
<seb128> it is friday after all!
 * didrocks is at mickey's place
<willcooke> didrocks, SING THE SONG
<xnox> damn, did i just miss him?
<xnox> who else is in brussels already?
<larsu> xnox: everyone
<xnox> larsu, great. is there a google group hangout for that, or no?
 * xnox just checked in.
<larsu> xnox: err, I don't know :)
<larsu> some of us are at the systemd hackfest
<larsu> others at gnome hackfest
<xnox> larsu, fun. I wasn't invited to either #all-by-myself.
<xnox> and it's late anyway, i guess systemd hackfest is finishing?
<dpm> hi desktoppers, is there anyone around who knows about the unity 8 session in xenial?
<Trevinho> dpm: not really... I guess it's something more related to bregma's team?
<willcooke> dpm, seb is probably your best bet, but he's travelling
<xnox> i wonder if i should gate crash
 * xnox found a google event which says that "you are invited"
<dpm> yeah, I was trying to ping him, but I guessed he'd be on his way to fosdem
<dpm> willcooke, Trevinho, do you happen to know if it's already shipped by default on xenial and if it's supposed to be working? The reason I'm asking is because trying to test it, it didn't work for me. But I had an old unity8-lxc installation which I think might have been conflicting
<larsu> xnox: noone's invited to anything :)
<willcooke> dpm, it's not installed by default
<larsu> xnox: Laney and didrocks arrive shortly and I'll head over to meet them soon too
<xnox> larsu, the #fosdem model.
<larsu> yep
<xnox> larsu, hm, keep in touch =) i'll go to the systemd thing. it's around the corner.
<dpm> willcooke, aha! Would you or someone in the team know what needs to be installed to test it?
<larsu> xnox: I'm here as well ;)
<willcooke> dpm, I think the meta package is called unity8-desktop-session-mir
<larsu> see you in a bit
<dpm> willcooke, ok, thanks!
<willcooke> larsu, when you see Laney could you ask him to check his email?  There is a question from IS which needs an answer so they can complete his server set up.
<Sweet5hark> larsu: you at betacoworking?
<davmor2> willcooke, Laney: was there a recent change to the notification system? Claws mail is showing popups but is nolonger showing numbers or triggering the indicator to change colour
<willcooke> davmor2, dunno, there is an issue with numbers and the Ubuntu font atm
<willcooke> might be unrelated
<willcooke> I very much doubt anything has changed in notifications though
<davmor2> willcooke: everything else seems to work so it might be the numbers thing happened on one of the updates this week would that tie in with that
<davmor2> let me try thunderbird and see if I see the same issue there
<larsu> Sweet5hark: nah, in the city at the systemd haclfest this afternoon
<larsu> willcooke: will do. I think he should get here soon
<Sweet5hark> larsu: is that at the radison blu?
<larsu> Sweet5hark: no, Floris Arlequin
<larsu> Grand-Place Hotel, in the Arlequin Room.
<larsu> but I'll probably come over soon to greet didrocks and Laney
<Sweet5hark> larsu: ah, cool. Havent seen those guys yet. They must be hiding.
 * Sweet5hark starts prowling.
<larsu> Sweet5hark: not sure if they've arrived yet - but they should shortly
<willcooke> Oki, early finish for me.  Off to London to explore an abandoned  Tube station
<willcooke> Happy FOSDEM to all
<willcooke> catch you later
<xnox> larsu, Laney are you about?
<xnox> Laney, there are valid reasons to go to the opening talk! get good seats for the 10am talk.
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-01-31
<Laney> my muscle memory is learning apt full-upgrade
 * Laney 's VPS is running wheezy without 'apt'
<obitori> Did the cardapio menu app project die?
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-01-23
<willcooke> *yawns* Morning all
<TheMuso> Hey willcooke.
<willcooke> Hey TheMuso - how goes?
<TheMuso> willcooke: Not too bad thanks.
<Laney> morning!
<willcooke> morning Laney
<TheMuso> Hey Laney.
<Laney> hey willcooke & TheMuso
<Laney> how's it going
<TheMuso> Not too bad thanks.
<Laney> w00t
<davmor2> Morning all
<willcooke> hi davmor2
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<Laney> ahoy davmor2 and flexiondotorg
<Laney> are you well?
<flexiondotorg> Yes, very.
<flexiondotorg> My daughter and I made our first Raspberry Pi project this weekend :-)
<davmor2> Laney: I'm awake give me a few more sips of coffee and I can fill you in on everything else from that
 * Laney buys davmor2 a teasmade
<Laney> flexiondotorg: nice, what was it?
<flexiondotorg> My daughter has been learning about Morse code at school.
<flexiondotorg> So we've made a morse code emitter.
<flexiondotorg> You can choose to use lights, buzzer or both.
<flexiondotorg> But being 6 she's full of ideas.
<Laney> Awesome
<flexiondotorg> Next weekend she want to make a morse receiver.
<Laney> You can use a second one to do the other half
<flexiondotorg> More trickky
<flexiondotorg> So it start a a manual morse, press button, flash light.
<flexiondotorg> Now you type in a message and it emits it.
<Laney> Make it use infra red or something
<flexiondotorg> I think the light sensor I have should pick up the light pulse for a receiver.
<flexiondotorg> I've got a CamJam Edu Kits.
<flexiondotorg> All in only Â£18 and you get loads of parts.
<willcooke> WOW!  I set myself a reminder to check on the system76 patches for the hidpi icons, found the LP bug and..... Laney is already on the case \m/
<willcooke> Thanks Laney!
<Laney> np!
<willcooke> Right.. total disaster this morning.  Only blue milk in the house and it is just wrong in tea, so I need to go to the shop.  Back in 10...
<Laney> I'm transitioning to the library too, so also back in a few
<willcooke> back with the green milk
<seb128> hey there
<seb128> (sorry bit late this morning, got a cold and I'm not feeling at the top so I overslept a bit)
<seb128> cooold out there also, -10Â°C this night
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> are you ill :(
<seb128> just a cold but I feel a bit feverish
 * Laney hugs seb128 
<Laney> take the laptop into bed ^_^
 * seb128 hugs Laney back
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> hot water bottle on the feet
 * Laney came to the library
<Laney> this room is cold
<Laney> 13.7
<seb128> urg
<Laney> I guess they only turn the heaters on when they get here at 9.30
<Laney> and it has crappy ancient windows so probably gets almost to the same temperature as the outside overnight
<Laney> "hmm, where's firefox gone?"
<Laney> Jan 23 11:34:30 nightingale kernel: compiz invoked oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x240c0d0(GFP_TEMPORARY|__GFP_COMP|__GFP_ZERO), order=3, oom_score_adj=0
<Laney> [â¦]
<Laney> Jan 23 11:34:30 nightingale kernel: Out of memory: Kill process 30530 (firefox) score 72 or sacrifice child
<davmor2> Laney: I'm running a daily live session 16.04.2 and gnome-software is timing out and not opening
<Laney> :(
<willcooke> davmor2, can you log a bug and I will speak to Robert about it tonight
<davmor2> willcooke: sure just looking through the logs to see if I see anything in there
<willcooke> guessing, but it could be related to a new snapd release
<Laney> davmor2: file a bug, look in journalctl for org.gnome.Software and attach that
<Laney> or just the whole journal
<davmor2> Laney: will do thanks dude
<Laney> I think that's where it ends up
<Laney> and if it's reproducible (save the log first), then you can attach the output of gnome-software --verbose
<Laney> but it works here I'm afraid
<davmor2> Laney: yeap it's working here fine now I wonder if it was just a networking glitch,  I'd do a bunch of test to check
<Laney> suspicious
<davmor2> got it apparently kvm's dns is getting scrambled from time to time so it seemed it had no network so was timing out. I assume it run an apt update on first run and not on subsequent, reboot and try and try again and it works perfectly, I have a connection shown but in ping tests 8.8.8.8 gets a hit google.com doesn't
<davmor2> wonderbar
<davmor2> in future I'll double check in browser before I panic
<desrt> moin moin
<desrt> happy monday, everyone
 * Laney nods desrt 
 * desrt gives a subtle glance of approval in the direction of laney
<seb128> hey desrt, happy monday to you!
<desrt> morning seb!
<Laney> desrt: good weekend?
<desrt> very
<desrt> friday night went to hamilton to see my family and introduce mascha's mom around.  saturday, went to a hockey game with some school friends and generally hung out, sunday took mascha's mom to the airport and had a nice relaxing evening at home playing games
<desrt> also learned a lot about pam/sudo/su/runuser/etc. this weekend
<desrt> trying to separate my work user from my personal-use user
<desrt> (it sort of bothers me that i type 'git pull; make' in a context where all my personal files are stored)
<Laney> interesting
<Laney> you want to have one way access to another user?
<Laney> I sort of wanted to set up dev containers or something, but never bothered to do it properly
<Laney> Always end up wanting to run things in my session sooner or later
<desrt> ya... i want user 'allison' to be able to do anything as 'desrt' without auth
<desrt> i also want to give user 'desrt' out-of-band sudo access
<desrt> so so far i configured sudo (and only sudo) to accept challenge/response from my yubikey as authentication, with no cached credentials
<desrt> which requires pressing the thing
<desrt>  so i don't have to type passwords into (hostile we presume) desrt-land
<desrt> the problem i'm hitting now is that sudo is really shitty about setting up a proper session with logind, systemd --user, xdg_runtime_dir and the proper environment variables and so on
<desrt> and it turns out that a lot of this comes down to your choice of pam environment.... and sudo has a hacked-up way to let you change your pam "service" name on a per-command basis... so that's good....
<desrt> but sudo runs the pam session stuff with the permission of the *invoking* user, so since my normal user can't do stuff like create directories in /run/user, that's trouble
<desrt> might end up doing some weird combination like 'sudo -u root runuser -l desrt' or so
<desrt> but that gives just one more issue: i want to be able to have a gnome-terminal profile for this, with working "take me to the last cwd" support
<desrt> and doing login sessions with runuser (and su) always put you in ~ of the target user
<desrt> so maybe i'll just do a double sudo.  who knows.  *sigh*
<desrt> basically, there is no single good "become this other user" tool that has the flexibility to specify custom pam services, or the precise mix of how much of the environment you want to share, and isn't sudo (which is arguably buggy here)
<desrt> so ya... that was most of my day yesterday =)
<jbicha> Laney: is it ok if I update gnome-software to 3.22.5 in zesty?
<Laney> jbicha: if you like
<seb128> jbicha, hey, it looks like you reverted the changes from a previous gtk3/zesty upload when you merged the new versions, see bug #1572331
<ubot5> bug 1572331 in GTK+ "GtkPlug scaled to half the expected size on HiDPI screens + zesty debdiff" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1572331
<ksamak> Trevinho: hi
<ksamak> Trevinho: had a chance to look at pull requests on compiz?
<ksamak> i had another question, about the best way to interogate a running plugin's setting from another one? should it create an opbject for that? or is there a way to get an instance
<ksamak> ?
<ksamak> i want to call a method inside ezoom, from mousepoll
<ksamak> hikiko: andyrock if you guys have an idea
<andyrock> i take a look later
<jbicha> seb128: thanks, I can upload that change, it looks like mterry forgot to push that change to gtk3 in bzr
<seb128> could be
<mterry> oops
<mterry> Sorry
<seb128> mterry, no worry
<seb128> jbicha, thanks for fixing it
<seb128> Laney, willcooke, speaking of hidpi icons we should probably try to get https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/hidpiicons/+merge/306356 in xenial as well
<seb128> that was fixed in yakkety but not SRUed iirc
<Laney> seb128: Go for it, that's a different package to the other one so doesn't need to be linked
<seb128> right, I was just mentioning it in case we keep a list
<seb128> I could work on the SRU but I've no hi-dpi setup to try the changes
<Laney> I don't have xenial either, but we could get da_vmor2 to check it
<seb128> right
<Sweet5hark> hmmm. The libreoffice-l10n just error'ed out with "No. You make ME a sandwich." at me.
<Laney> you know who the boss is
<Sweet5hark> aye
<Sweet5hark> I patched it to not get upset by running builds as uid 0 (as launchpad does).
<seb128> have a good evening desktopers!
<willcooke> night seb
<willcooke> night all
<flocculant> anyone any idea about when robert ancell shows up?
<sarnold> in my /lastlog I see him mostly talking between 12:00 and 19:00 in my timezone; it's currently 10:21 in my timezone
<flocculant> sarnold: thanks :)
<flocculant> robert_ancell: hi there - re the xubuntu locking bug (which also affects lubuntu I've found out) I double checked back on the old lightdm packages and cocked up which I thought worked etc - definitely appears to be this change which caused it (or at least that is the version which lock stops working at) http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/l/lightdm/lightdm_1.21.1-0ubuntu2/changelog
<flocculant> we're obviously a bit concerned about this :)
<robert_ancell> flocculant, do you have the bug number handy>?
<flocculant> bug 1656399
<ubot5> bug 1656399 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Unable to unlock Xubuntu XFCE session after suspend." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1656399
<robert_ancell> flocculant, do you think light-locker hasn't completed all its actions before it's killed?
<flocculant> robert_ancell: not sure of the tech side of that at all - I just test, BUT I do know that previously (if music was playing on desktop) lock would mute music when it went to vt8
<flocculant> currently I can hear music momentarily as it unlocks - then it stops - which would suggest to me that it is immediately re-locking
<flocculant> ochosi or bluesabre would be better placed to answer whether things are not being completed before it's killed
<robert_ancell_> flocculant, do you think light-locker hasn't completed all its actions before it's killed?
<sarnold> flocculant: robert_ancell_ probably didn't see any your previous three messages
<robert_ancell_> yeah, had connection problems here (working from a library)
<flocculant> robert_ancell: not sure of the tech side of that at all - I just test, BUT I do know that previously (if music was playing on desktop) lock would mute music when it went to vt8
<flocculant> currently I can hear music momentarily as it unlocks - then it stops - which would suggest to me that it is immediately re-locking
<flocculant> ochosi or bluesabre would be better placed to answer whether things are not being completed before it's killed
<flocculant> robert_ancell_: did you see those?
<flocculant> sarnold: thanks :)
<robert_ancell_> flocculant, the last I saw was the bug link.
<robert_ancell_> Yay for IRC :)
<flocculant> robert_ancell_: but did you see the ones I reposted?
<robert_ancell_> flocculant, yep,
<flocculant> cool
<ochosi> hi robert_ancell_
<flocculant> ochosi: thanks :)
<ochosi> so basically light-locker is a little unmaintained these days and i haven't touched it in a while
<ochosi> i only have about 5mins now though, would you still be around in 1hr or so?
<robert_ancell_> ochosi, yep, I've just started
<ochosi> ok cool
<ochosi> then i'll stop by in ~1hr
<ochosi> but generally speaking light-locker listens to some unlock signal from lightdm and then the black overlay window that is on top of the session is closed
<ochosi> it's just been too long for me to remember what we implemented there exactly all those years ago...
<robert_ancell_> ochosi, I'm thinking it might be lightdm-gtk-greeter being killed is the issue? Because light-locker is in-session and shouldn't be affected by this change.
<flocculant> robert_ancell_: I'll wander off now and let ochosi catch you later - sorry I couldn't answer what needed answering, the last thing anyone would want on this is chinese whispers :)
<flocculant> thanks for looking though :)
<dmj_s76> Laney: How does the hidpi merge look now?
<ochosi> robert_ancell_: right, maybe we should test this issue with a different greeter, cause light-locker is not bound to any specific greeter, just lightdm
<ochosi> robert_ancell_: and yes, light-locker is in-session (sry, haven't looked at the change in question yet)
<flocculant> robert_ancell: do you mean seat0-greeter.log?
<robert_ancell> flocculant, yeah
<flocculant> adding now - also I tried unity-greeter - but that Failed To Start Session
<flocculant> robert_ancell: ok - that's on the bug report now
<RAOF> Urgh.
<RAOF> Stupid ubuntu-online-accounts.
<RAOF> At least it isn't endlessly popping up browser windows with the Ubuntu wiki at the moment...
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-01-24
<hikiko> hi
<TheMuso> Hey hikiko.
<hikiko> hi TheMuso
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<willcooke> morning seb128
<willcooke> How are you feeling today?
<seb128> hey willcooke! I had a good night, feeling less tired/feverish which is good
<seb128> still having the cold annoyance, sneezing, etc
<seb128> but it's already an improvement :-)
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> morning
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> good thanks!
<Laney> it got really foggy last night
<Laney> was cool
<Laney> how about you?
<seb128> cool like "can't find the road anymore so I'm biking in the middle of nowhere"? ;-)
<seb128> I'm fine, had a good night sleep and I'm feeling a bit better today!
<flexiondotorg> Morning seb128 Laney willcooke hikiko_
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg
<willcooke> hey flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> Stepping out for a bit. Back in a hour...
<davmor2> Morning all
<flexiondotorg> davmor2 o/
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<willcooke> evening TheMuso
<TheMuso> seb128: Could you do me a favour? I've got MIRs filed for espeak-ng and pcaudiolib, bug 1656741 and bug 1656742 respecitvely. COuld you please add them to the desktop-packagers team for bug mail? We are transitioning away from espeak, which si no longer maintained.
<ubot5> bug 1656741 in espeak-ng (Ubuntu) "[MIR] espeak-ng" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1656741
<ubot5> bug 1656742 in pcaudiolib (Ubuntu) "[MIR] pcaudiolib" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1656742
<seb128> hey TheMuso, done
<TheMuso> seb128: Thank you.
<seb128> yw!
<hikiko_> morning all
<Sweet5hark> morning all
<Sweet5hark> seems we are a globally distributed sick room.
<hikiko> :)
<Laney> hey Sweet5hark and hikiko
<Laney> hey davmor2 and flexiondotorg and TheMuso
 * Sweet5hark is still on antibiotics, but starting to feel better.
<Laney> I had a runny nose last week for a couple of days
<Laney> but then it got better instead of worse
 * Laney STRONG
 * Laney STOMPS YOU
<hikiko> hi Laney davmor2 flexiondotorg Sweet5hark seb128 willcooke flexiondotorg well +all
<hikiko> I still have flu :p
<davmor2> hikiko: :( get 100% soon
<hikiko> thanks :)
<davmor2> Laney: How's life in the grim north?
<Laney> davmor2: I see blue skies, and I see ice
<Laney> looks nice :3
<davmor2> Laney: I see no ice, see how much grimmer it is up north ;)
<Laney> not grim
<Laney> it is a GREAT winter day
<TheMuso> We've just come out the back end of a scorcher here... Thankfull a southerly buster came through and the evening is a pleasant one.
<TheMuso> thankfully*
<Laney> TheMuso: I read soemthing about a record run of high temperature
<TheMuso> Laney: That certainly may be the case in other parts of Aus.
<TheMuso> Laney: We did have a record breaking overnight temperature a week or so back, 26 or so degrees C.
<TheMuso> Thats in Sydney.
<Laney> TheMuso: https://www.theguardian.com/weather/2017/jan/24/sydney-heatwave-expected-to-shatter-weather-record-set-before-federation <- that's the one I read
<TheMuso> No idea if we got there but I wouldn't be surprised if we did.
<TheMuso> Oh thats for today.
<TheMuso> Yeah well in my local area I think it got to about 36.
<TheMuso> Still darn hot.
<Laney> Yep yep yep
<sil2100> Trevinho: hey! I see your appmenu silo is ready for release since a while - I generally leave such no-packaging-changes silos to be released by the landers, you want me to press the button?
<Sweet5hark> ahh, libreoffice-l10n finally completed the build. now for keeping stuff afloat ...
<willcooke> ding ding
<seb128> hoi
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan 24 15:30:37 2017 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic:
<Sweet5hark> grmbl,  something is fscked up about epoxy and i dont even know what that is.
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski, fjkong (out), flexiondotorg (meeting), happyaron (out), hikiko, laney, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<qengho> Aiee!
<Sweet5hark> o/
<hikiko> hello
<desrt> yup
<andyrock> hey
<willcooke> 1 more minute...
<hikiko> :)
<willcooke> oki, let's start
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> hey
<andyrock> #1. Proposed a branch for recording failing test on jenikins for unity8
<andyrock> #2. Worked a little bit for the a11y problem with compiz
<andyrock> #3. Reviewing a comping branch
<andyrock> eow
<willcooke> thanks andyrock, good stuff
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: attente
<attente> hey
<attente> apparmor dconf patch testing and review with desrt, meeting with security team to figure out missing requirements
<attente> mir patch backporting from gtk4 to gtk3 to reduce the delt
<attente> started debugging combo box problems in gtk-mir/miral-shell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/miral/+bug/1655997
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1655997 in MirAL "[gtk] Save as dialog: dropdown menu surface positioned wrong" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<attente> (eof)
<willcooke> great! thanks to you and desrt for the work with the sec. team
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> hey
<desrt> attente mostly covered it.  got together last week to discuss the interface between the proxy and what is needed from apparmor
<desrt> and indeed, had a security team meeting.  imho, that didn't go very well
<desrt> the one thing that we really needed from them was not delivered (even though they delivered some other things)
<desrt> so that's completely clear now
<desrt> work continues....
<desrt> eof
<willcooke> thanks desrt #
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> * backported fix to #1550983 from Debian to Xenial/Yakkety
<dgadomski> * investigated a blank screen issue with intel vga on vesa driver, no conclusions yet
<dgadomski> * checking a potential usblp issue
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: FJKong
<willcooke> bug tracing:
<willcooke> #1656450
<willcooke> Desktop notifications stop working
<willcooke> should be notify-daemon crash
<willcooke> #1656071
<willcooke> Expect Preview in 16.10 When I Press Space, Instead, Nothing Happens.
<willcooke> #1644781
<willcooke> Sushi-start fails with 16.10 upgrade, both Unity and Mate
<willcooke> due to sushi-start crash
<willcooke> #topic flexiondotorg
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: flexiondotorg
<willcooke> <flexiondotorg> Time appropriate greetings!
<willcooke> <flexiondotorg> Â· If you seen Dell and Barton George getting coverage in blogs and podcasts over the last couple of weeks, I've been working with Barton in the evenings to help broaden the exposure of the new Ubuntu Powered line-up from Dell.
<willcooke> <flexiondotorg> Â· About a dozen upstreams and ISVs on the go.
<willcooke> <flexiondotorg>   Â· Helping upstreams and ISVs unblock snap progress now that dbus support in snapd is in much better shape.
<willcooke> <flexiondotorg>   Â· Snapcraft assistance for several projects who've shown interest but lack the time to get started.
<willcooke> <flexiondotorg> Â· Testing Zesty themes. Aside from Firefox Notebooks (upstream issue) everything is in good shape.
<willcooke> <flexiondotorg> Â· Testing Xenial dailies and liasing with System 76 who said they wanted to be more involved in the HWE testing last October.
<willcooke> <flexiondotorg>   Â· System 76 have smoke tested all their supported computers, both upgrades and oem-installs.
<willcooke> <flexiondotorg> ð¬
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> 1. nm bug #1647283
<willcooke> 2. opencc SRU to yakkety, bug #1657677
<ubot5> bug 1647283 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "WiFi being detected as ethernet when race condition on renaming for persistent name" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647283
<willcooke> 3. opencc arch dependent data files, debian #851733
<ubot5> bug 1657677 in opencc (Ubuntu Yakkety) "[SRU]fix versioned Breaks/Replaces" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1657677
<ubot5> Debian bug 851733 in opencc "ocd data files are arch dependent" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/851733
<willcooke> 4. zfs-linux linux 4.9 compatibility
<willcooke> 5. prepare information for bug #997200
<ubot5> bug 997200 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Test for captive portal before putting applications in online mode" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/997200
<willcooke> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: hikiko
<hikiko> hey :) low gfx: I am still trying to figure out what's missing from compizconfig and it doesn't update the profiles instantly + extend the lib, +sick leave monday
<hikiko> eof
<willcooke> thanks hikiko
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> JUST IN TIME
<Laney> â¢ Reviewed/gave feedback/eventually uploaded a branch to add Scale=2 directories to Humanity
<Laney> â¢ Debugged ubiquity-dm being broken (broke oem-config and only-ubiquity/maybe-ubiquity mode), turned out to already have been fixed so poked ubiquity developers to merge that, done now
<Laney> â¢ Little bit more work on prepping gnome-software patches to go upstream
<Laney> â¢ Think some of the iso builds are hitting https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=838441, looking to debug atm
<ubot5> Debian bug 838441 in apt "apt-get update fails with "Hash Sum mismatch", mixes hashes between tar.gz and tar file" [Normal,Open]
<Laney> â¢ autopkgtest:
<Laney> â made blacklisted packages be more visible (e.g. in excuses)
<Laney> â got some patch reviews: lxd reboot detection fix, fix for fetching packages if "Package-List" is last in the apt-cache showsrc output
<Laney> â made a reproducer package for not killing the infrastructure if a test causes a kernel panic - panic() hell yeah, just need to fix it now
<Laney> â
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> * chromium beta arm fixes. No upstream stable release this week.
<qengho> * browser-test snap, debugging audio problems in confinement. Icky.
<qengho> * tor-middle-relay snap updated, 10 minutes this morning. launchpad build+upload of snaps is *so nice*.
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> :) thanks qengho
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ contributed to some snap mailing list discussions
<seb128> â¢ archive admin reviews
<seb128> â¢ tweaks to the snapd desktop launchers
<seb128> â¢ xenial desktopish SRU verifications and tried to get some items unstucked
<seb128> â¢ cleaned a bit the sponsoring queue
<seb128> â¢ usual rounds of launchpad bugstriaging, IRC discussions, etc
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> - sick on friday
<Sweet5hark> - LibreOffice 5.3.0~rc1 as snap (on amd64 only), bumped to 5.3.0~rc2 then
<Sweet5hark> - temporarily disabled some tests to pass snap on armhf
<Sweet5hark> - temporarily disabled some more tests to pass snap on i386
<Sweet5hark> - LibreOffice 5.3.0~rc1 as dpkg (but missing dbg symbols) -- initial merge for 5.3/zesty
<Sweet5hark> - some fixes to get LibreOffice 5.3.0~rc1 l10n to build too (allow root builds)
<Sweet5hark> - various more tweaks and fixes, some removal of delta to Debian
<Sweet5hark> - bumped/merged dpkg to 5.3.0~rc2 and enabled dbgsyms in ppa builder (currently building)
<Sweet5hark> - TDF Board, ESC, AB calls
<Sweet5hark> - some TDF admin: budget approvals, tenders, PR coodination
<Sweet5hark> - some trusty backporting forwarded to Debian
<Sweet5hark> - backlog: didnt get to some backporting for precise still :/
<willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Got PulseAudio v10 uploaded to Zesty. All my bluetooth hardware and audio hardware in general working ok.
<willcooke> * More discussion with Konrad and Seb about getting new bluetooth stack and pulseaudio bluetooth fixes into Xenial.
<willcooke> * Started going through upstream pusleaudio bluetooth patches, and put together a source package based on the Xenial updates source package. Need to set up a Xenial environment to test properly to see if they break anything.
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - CUPS snap: Studied current state of the snapcraft docs and applied some stuff to the snap
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Release of 1.13.3
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2017: Put up student project ideas for OpenPrinting, posted the mentoring organization application for the Linux Foundation, video conference student interview.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: Trevinho
<Trevinho> Â· Added some cancellable to unity temporary dbus proxies (fixing crashes)
<Trevinho> Â· Testing compizconfig for profile switching
<Trevinho> Â· Looking at the new fdo StatusNotifierItem implementation
<Trevinho> . Some more fixes to upstream Remmina to work with snap
<Trevinho> . Workaround to snap-desktop-helpers to create missing $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
<Trevinho> Â· Add again remote indicators to snap-desktop-helpers
<Trevinho> Â· Created a travis cron job that builds daily the Remmina snap, pushing latest git commit to edge and latest release tag to stable (using docker for both i386 and amd64)
<Trevinho> Â· Remmina is then now in snap store (and got also some unexpected OMG! ubuntu coverage)
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed snapcraft to detect proper arch when building in a 32bit userspace with a 64bit kernel (normally in a container)
<Trevinho>  EOF
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - Working on snapd-glib regression tests (will be required to get SRU exception)
<willcooke> - Landed snapd-glib Qt/QML bindings
<willcooke> - Bug diagnosing work
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-01-24 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> Anyone got anything to share?
<willcooke> Some news to pass on...
<willcooke> What was Phonedations - now IOTdations - are helping with Network Manager and BlueZ
<seb128> \o/
<attente> nice
<willcooke> so we should get paper cuts fixes over the next couple of weeks, and them I working with them to solidify the plan going forwards
<willcooke> *tehn
<willcooke> then
<Trevinho> cool
<willcooke> but generally we are already getting more involvement and it's working out well
<willcooke> no doubt there will be SRUs to help with soon
<willcooke> Have a couple of new feature requirements coming down the line around live patching.  Will get the full details and let you all know
<willcooke> anyone got anything else?
<willcooke> going once
<willcooke> twice
<willcooke> thrice, and sold.
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan 24 15:51:21 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-01-24-15.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<seb128> thanks!
<qengho> :)
<Trevinho> :-)
<Trevinho> sil2100: ah, well... Those... I was waiting for code review from ltinkl, but maybe you can proceed with code checks too.. Or andyrock could
<andyrock> Trevinho: links?
<Trevinho> andyrock: https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2363
<jcastro> are there any open bugs on snap desktop apps not putting the icon in the right place?
<jcastro> someone commented on the keespassxc snap on HN today that it didn't install an icon for them
<jcastro> and I've seen some snaps not do this but I thought it was just me.
<davmor2> jcastro: I have icons unless they expected it to appear in the launcher like it does with deb installed software, I don't have keespassxc installed though so can't confirm on that one
<jcastro> he just said "menu item" so I'm assuming the dash
<davmor2> jcastro: installing and trying here
<jcastro> I've seen that the dash sometimes takes a while to realize that there's a new .desktop file
<davmor2> jcastro: I see it in dash
<davmor2> jcastro: and that is searching straight after install
<jcastro> should I just tell him to file a bug?
<jcastro> I wonder if he's using another desktop
<davmor2> jcastro: http://people.canonical.com/~davmor2/personal-screenshots/keepassxc-crop.png
<davmor2> jcastro: if he is on another desktop that might have an effect but in theory shouldn't
<jcastro> ok I'll just ask him to do that and then say which desktop, the new place for bugs is snapd in launchpad right? not github?
<davmor2> jcastro: right
<willcooke> nigtha ll
<seb128> k, enough for today, have a nice evening desktopers!
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-01-25
<qengho> I just got email asking how to run a orig tarball. I could not help very much.
<duflu> All efforts to make Linux more user-friendly are welcome :)
<TheMuso> Yeah the joys of users knowing just enough to be dangerous such that they put up some random instructions on the net as to how to get something working.
<pitti> Good morning!
<flocculant> hi pitti :)
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti :)
<willcooke> morning all
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<willcooke> hi flexiondotorg
<davmor2> Morning all
<willcooke> morning davmor2
<flexiondotorg> willcooke I found some info about getting Alexa to control Raspberry Pi GPIOs :-)
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, just saw that on G+ :)
<flexiondotorg> :-) I think that could make for some fun projects at home.
<davmor2> flexiondotorg: you need help ;)
<flexiondotorg> davmor2 If I can't ask Alexa to turn a red LED on then life is not worth living ;-)
<davmor2> flexiondotorg: you really need help ;)
<willcooke> :D
<davmor2> flexiondotorg: although I discovered why I was getting crappy 3d prints the filament that came with the printer is like the worlds cheapest so hopefully the sample I have coming from rigid.ink will be better and I'll be able to print happy :) so we are all as sad as each other :)
<flexiondotorg> Unless you can ask Alexa to print something it's irrelevant ;-)
<davmor2> flexiondotorg: I don't have alexa I have a Sue can I ask her to print things?
<flexiondotorg> I Googled for a Sue. I can't find one :-(
<Laney> blarg
<davmor2> flexiondotorg: oh She is way better than Alexa, She's like a complete house hold automation system, I go downstairs and it's like tidy and clean, there is food, and hugs and all sorts of stuff ;)
<flexiondotorg> sudo snap install sue
<flexiondotorg> Nothing :-(
<davmor2> flexiondotorg: :D
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<willcooke> hey seb128
<flexiondotorg> Morning seb128 Laney
<seb128> sorry bit late this morning I overslept and I had an appointement at 10am
<flexiondotorg> seb128 Are you recovered yet?
<seb128> hey willcooke flexiondotorg
<seb128> flexiondotorg, I feel better thanks, just annoyance (blocked nose)
<pitti> bonjour folks!
<pitti> seb128: argh, another flu? :-(
<willcooke> hey pitti!
<seb128> hey pitti! yeah, winter got me :-/
<Sweet5hark> pitti, seb128, willcooke, all: morning guys!
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark!
<Sweet5hark> hmmm. seems my dybsym libreoffice build worked (mostly) fine. If it wouldnt the lp uploader wouldnt complain about dbgsym packages ...
<Sweet5hark> INFO 	libreoffice-core-dbgsym_5.3.0~rc2-2ubuntu1~zesty2_amd64.deb: control file lists name as 'libreoffice-core-dbgsym', which isn't in changes file.
<Sweet5hark> thats curious: of course they are not in the changes file as their existence is triggered by checking a box in lp. (Or rather: whatever that checkbox does to generate dbgsyms should not be surprised to get dbgsyms?)
<willcooke> :/
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: watched that cyber-nuclear BBC thingie btw. Needs to be talked about on some upcoming sprint ;)
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, :D  sounds like a good plan
<seb128> Sweet5hark, try maybe asking on #launchpad or #ubuntu-devel (others likely hit that before)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: done
<Sweet5hark> seb128: FWIW I hit that before last cycle IIRC but it was late due to snap-foo, so I dropped the issue.
<Sweet5hark> (well, punted for this cycle)
 * Sweet5hark is away for lunchbreak (might take a bit longer today)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, enjoy! btw did you sort out the ddeb issue?
<andyrock> ksamak: hey
<andyrock> you here?
<davmor2> cyphermox: double header is gone in zesty \o/ however there are no slide on the installer on xps13
<davmor2> cyphermox: zesty isn't showing the hit enter to reboot on older hp or xps 13 either.  So is stuck in tty
<ksamak> andyrock: yep
<ksamak> i'm here
<andyrock> the ezoom_focus_tracking is bigger than expected
<andyrock> 1500 lines for a MP is a bit too much
<ksamak> ok. what then?
<ksamak> you want a bug linked to that?
<andyrock> would be nice to split it in different branches, I'm taking a look right now
<andyrock> I'll be back to you asap
<ksamak> ok. no problem
<andyrock> I want to be sure that all the changes are actually needed
<cyphermox> davmor2: does it reboot if you hit enter though?
<cyphermox> sounds like the xps13 has bad graphics.
<davmor2> cyphermox: nope just drops down a line
<cyphermox> what's the one before that?
<davmor2> cyphermox: happen on intel across the board then
<ksamak> andyrock: well, there's probably thins to discuss i guess
<cyphermox> maybe
<cyphermox> davmor2: have you filed a bug about it?
<davmor2> cyphermox: double header gone, installer shows no slides
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> two bugs, one for no slides, and one for no reboot
<andyrock> ksamak: for the moment I'm reviewing just the style and other minor changes. Then we can discuss a bit more
<davmor2> cyphermox: will do in a meeting at the moment so will be a minute or two
<cyphermox> davmor2: no problem
<ksamak> andyrock: yeah, that's something i was wondering? does a11yWatcher have to adapt to compiz's coding style?
<andyrock> yep
<andyrock> it's inside compiz
<andyrock> so yes
<ksamak> cause well... i actually change compiz's code locally sometimes, cause i can't read stuff
<ksamak> ok, i guess that'll take a little while.
<ksamak> andyrock: tell me what else you see
<andyrock> ksamak: please check the diff comments
<andyrock> I'll continue the review later
<andyrock> once these are fixed
<ksamak> ok.
<ksamak> thanks
<ksamak> andyrock: i guess i could've checked the coding style better, i thought there might have been some more general/structure things to change.
<ksamak> i'll get on that
<andyrock> i'll check that later
<willcooke> Laney, did you have an Ikea chair that was good?
<Laney> willcooke: yeah, markus or something, quite decent
<Laney> think Trevinho has it too?
<Laney> and didrocks
<willcooke> I'll google that, thx
<Trevinho> Yes I've it
<Trevinho> Marco has Markus :-)
<willcooke> :))
<Trevinho> and seb too I think
<willcooke> Does it have arms on?
<Trevinho> yep
<Laney> yep
<willcooke> perfect
<Trevinho> you can't change their height tho
<willcooke> ah, kk
<Trevinho> which is somewhat annoying sometimes...
<Trevinho> the only bad think I of that chair i think
<willcooke> I fear another trip to Ikea is on the cards
<willcooke> hurrr. The floor protector is called Kolon
 * Laney wanted something from there the other day
<Laney> Not available online
<willcooke> That's how they get you
<Laney> sneaky little swedes
<ogra_> hurry up before the brexit makes them unpayable ;)
<Laney> I actually looked on ebay for the same thing
<Laney> it was like 2Ã, coming from .de
<ogra_> wow
<ogra_> thats bad
<Laney> that's including postage
<Laney> ya
<Laney> better to try to get a lift over there :P
<ogra_> heh, yeah ...
<ogra_> eurostar ikea tours ... new market niche
<Laney> did you see 'sleeping in ikea'?
<ogra_> nope (heard of it though)
<Laney> looks like fun
<willcooke> night all
<seb128> have a nice evening desktopers!
<dobey> desrt: is it just impossible to pass an unsigned int to gdbus cli tool?
<dobey> 0u gets interpreted as string, and 0 as regular int :-/
<desrt> 'uint32 0'
<desrt> or @u 0
<dobey> ah
<desrt> 0u might be a nice syntax to support
<desrt> patches welcome =)
<dobey> heh
<desrt> jjohansen: hey
<desrt> jjohansen: attente mentioned that you're working on adding support for regexps to the dconf stuff.  i was wondering how you imagine that working...
<attente> i'm a bit concerned about how this watch path merging is going to work. if paths with different permissions get merged together to a single watch path, i'm not sure how the dconf side is expected to ahead-of-time query the permissions for paths that disappear due to the merge
<davmor2> cyphermox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1659395 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1659398
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1659395 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "No slides in the slideshow" [Undecided,New]
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1659398 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "On intel gfx stack I see no enter to reboot prompt" [Undecided,New]
<jjohansen> desrt, attente: atm it won't. It is going to be rejecting rules with regexs. dconf won't see path merging in the watch lists
<Sweet5hark> The constant swearing you hear in the background is a perlhaters unexpected journey into the debhelper source code.
<mdeslaur> Sweet5hark: danger! staring directly at debhelper perl code may cause blindness and insanity!
<cmiller> We evicted Py2. Shoulda targeted Perl first.
<dobey> blasphemer
<cmiller> Write-only languages are hard to replace. :(
<Sweet5hark> mdeslaur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od6hY_50Dh0 *whistles*
<mdeslaur> hehe
<desrt> jjohansen: sounds good.  thanks.
 * Sweet5hark find nothing particularly hate-inducing in the stuff beyond the obvious (its perl). but maybe seeing much libreoffice source and writing an full OOP build system in pure GNU make already killed remaining bits of my soul earlier in life.
<desrt> jjohansen: also please stop calling them "watch lists" :)
<desrt> it makes me think that we're still not on the same page about exactly what this API is supposed to do
<desrt> it's not just about watching.  it's the authoritative list of what is allowed to be read and written
<dobey> Sweet5hark: you're just not wearing enough hats
<Sweet5hark> dobey: oh, I do. No day without at least two or three hats. Fashionable though not too ... for lack of an english word: alltagstauglich
<dobey> heh
<dobey> Sweet5hark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2QJvc_SxFQ
<flocculant> robert_ancell: re the issue we're seeing with lock - I managed today to do some checks, losing light-locker and using gnome-screensaver then xscreensaver - perhaps that helps track down the issue https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1656399/comments/16
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1656399 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Unable to unlock Xubuntu XFCE session after suspend." [Critical,Confirmed]
<robert_ancell> flocculant, thanks
<ochosi> robert_ancell: following up on what flocculant said, is there any significant change between 1.21.1 and 1.21.3
<ochosi> ?
<flocculant> 1.21.2 ochosi - that was when it broke for us
<ochosi> oh ok, that should narrow it down even more closely then
<flocculant> yup
<robert_ancell> ochosi, I think the only significant change is the change pitti made to use logind to terminate sessions
<ochosi> humm, so any idea what would have to be changed on the greeter side?
<robert_ancell> ochosi, if you could compile a local version with that change removed (rev 2437) that would confirm it
<ochosi> or would you argue that it just exposes a bug in the greeter?
<robert_ancell> ochosi, I think it has exposed a bug in the greeter (it's not exiting cleanly for some reason) and the daemon (it's not handling a non-clean exit correctly)
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> so you didnt have to change anything in unity-greeter to make this work for you then
<robert_ancell> ochosi, no
<robert_ancell> I'm just trying to knock out a snapd-glib 1.5 release, then I'll get back to looking at this issue in more detail
<ochosi> ok, thanks! it's much appreciated!
<flocculant> yup - thanks :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-01-26
<hikiko> hi
<TheMuso> Hey hikiko.
<happyaron> hey hikiko TheMuso
<hikiko> Hi TheMuso happyaron :-)
 * happyaron test machine dies after dist-upgrade (xenial
<Sweet5hark> moin
<Laney> momomo
<Laney> inini
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<Laney> oh
<Laney> oops
<Laney> hi seb128!
<seb128> hey Laney! how are you?
<seb128> I started wondering if my IRC was working :-)
<davmor2> Morning all
<seb128> hey davmor2
<Laney> seb128: good thanks!
<Laney> climbing + folk club last night
<Laney> my new house plants just got delivered :-o
<Laney> supposed to be < 0Â° all day today, brrrr
<Laney> how are you?
<Laney> and hey davmor2!
<seb128> going for indoor gardening in winter? ;-)
<Laney> how are you also?
<seb128> I'm fine, cold is still a bit annoying
<Laney> thought I'd get some more green in the place
<desrt> happy thursday!
 * desrt encounters difficulty typing
<seb128> hey desrt! how are you?
<seb128> keyboard issues? too cold to type?
<desrt> too much 5.8 last night
<desrt> and some pretty rough boldering routes too
<desrt> arm feel weird this morning :)
<desrt> *arms
<seb128> 5.8 is a climing place?
<seb128> climbing
<desrt> it's a difficulty level
<seb128> oh ok
<desrt> like 5.10+ is will/laney levels
<desrt> 5.4, 5.5, 5.6 is around what most people could do without a whole lot of practice
<desrt> i'm somewhere in the middle
<seb128> I see
<seb128> raising up your game ;-)
<desrt> lol.  i just learned that it goes up to (at least) 5.15 on some tables
<desrt> that's like spiderman level, i guess
<desrt> http://outdoorswithdave.com/climbing/climbing-ratings good overview
<desrt> nobody really completely agrees on the numbers... even gyms in toronto have some disagreement... according to this page, i was more in the 5.9-5.10 range...
<Laney> sup
<Laney> yessssss go desrt
<Laney> they have the V grades at my place
<desrt> ya... we're so weird here
<desrt> we use the US system for toprope/lead and the V system for boldering
<Laney> oh right, yeah, they do have different systems
<Laney> I never do !bouldering :)
<Laney> don't know why but the centre's training climbs are graded in font grades
<Laney> it's all confusing
<desrt> we went to will's gym last night (went to mine last time).... his bouldering stuff is ... strange
<desrt> our gym is great... the routes are by the colours of the holds... at his place, the holds are randomly coloured and labelled.... if it's not labelled, it's not there
<desrt> and some of the tape is falling off :(
<desrt> oh... and they don't do V grades there, actually... they do it by the karate belt system... white is easiest, then yellow, etc.
<desrt> it's a mess :)
<Laney> usually I just try stuff until it gets too hard
<Laney> because obviously people have different ideas of what the same grade means
<desrt> indeed
<desrt> i took a friend for the first time last night, though
<desrt> so quite useful to be able to answer the question of "which one is the easiest"
<desrt> turns out the answer is "white"
<Laney> we have...
<Laney> green (kids) purple black blue red yellow white orange
<desrt> lol.  so your yellow/white/orange is the impossible stuff... for us those are the easy ones :)
 * Laney does red and some yellow
<Laney> done like 3-4 whites ever
<desrt> i did one yellow last night... in two parts :p
<desrt> my bouldering is pretty hurting
<Laney> orange is a circlejerk for the setters and the 5 top people
<Laney> ahhh climbing
<desrt> mostly regretting that i didn't leave my ring at home, and trying not to mess up my nails too badly :)
<Laney> haha
<Laney> oh and wood too, how could I forget wood :(
<Laney> that's like red/yellow but with crappy wood holds
<desrt> i hate small holds
<desrt> my ideal climbing route has some mix of overhang, big moves, and dynamic... but all on very good holds
<Laney> opposite of me then
<Laney> i'm relatively crap at dynos
<Laney> relatively good at sick crimps
<desrt> i like it... on toprope, falling is actually kinda fun
<desrt> it makes you angry and gives you a vague desire to kill the wall... which helps
<desrt> the only good thing about small holds is that they force you to improve your body position.... centre of gravity is everything...
<desrt> the "ow ow ow my fingers are breaking" aspect is not so great
<desrt> but the "get used to hugging the wall or get used to failing" aspect is kinda cool
<Laney> i love engaging the core
<Laney> creeping up on some crappy foot
<Laney> where's attente, he should be joining in
<desrt> climbing hangover
<desrt> he had a rough night
<desrt> fell on lead a couple of times and got into an argument with an obnoxious 5.10+ toprope with an impossible move to a crappy hold
<attente> :(
<desrt> i was catch... he tried like 8 times while i just sat there and left the rope alone... i was impressed
<Laney> :'(
<Laney> it'll go man
<desrt> my friend killed it... they have these tall climbs there and the whole time she was like "okay... now *really* this is my last one..."
<desrt> then rested for 10 minutes and did another
<desrt> like 3 times...
<desrt> ended up killing a 5.7 in the end, on her first day
<desrt> she definitely caught the bug
<attente> i bailed three clips up a 5.10 sport that i usually finish cleanly
<attente> going again tonight to redeem myself
<desrt> attente: honestly?  you looked awesome up there.  you were crushing it in the start... if anything, you just went too fast and wore yourself out
<desrt> also.. the way you move is really nice... i climb like a drunken idiot stumbling their way home from the pub... you look like a freaking dancer up there
<Sweet5hark> *grmble* I begin to suspect the i386/xenial snap build env on launchpad is fubar. I mean tests pass on amd64 and with just a few exceptions also on armhf, but i386 stumbles over itself on pretty much everything.
<Sweet5hark> on the bright side though the dpkg builds of libreoffice 5.3.0 seem to succeed once I removed the beyond-evil hackery in the bowels of ./.debhelper and such that debian did.
<Sweet5hark> looking at that the hackery, I wonder if that stuff is really worth it. seems something that will break with every second update of LO or debhelper. Prolly best left out until it can be solved in a clean way ...
<Laney> right
<Laney> see you tuesday :-)
<seb128> Laney, have a nice w.e!
<dmj_s76> sil2100: Testing for the humanity-icon-theme went well.  When do you think we'll see the -proposed package arrive in xenial?
 * dmj_s76 crosses fingers for the .2 release
<jbicha> dmj_s76: if 16.04.2 is still happening on Feb 2, you're too late unless you get an exception (SRUs generally have to wait 7 days before being promoted to -updates)
<dmj_s76> jbicha: The package was uploaded...yesterday
<dmj_s76> jbicha: Is the release still happening on Feb 2?  The daily iso doesn't list the HWE kernel in the manifest.
<jbicha> dmj_s76: oh, your package is already in -proposed and is verified; yes, it might still make it in in .2
<dmj_s76> okay.  Yes, hoping to have a rather embarrassing hidpi bug fixed for the installer.
<jbicha> for 16.04.1, I believe other packages were let in that hadn't waited a full week first
<jbicha> I think if it's an installer issue, it's especially likely to be accepted :)
<jbicha> is the appstream generator not working? http://appstream.ubuntu.com/zesty/ and appstream.ubuntu.com/yakkety-updates/ say last update was Jan 15
<jbicha> my test case is wine which should show up in appstream clients in zesty now :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-01-27
<juenn> hello! just want to ask if i will upgrade ubuntu 12 to 14 will it affect my installed web services? i have installed drupal on it
<sarnold> juenn: apache 2.2 vs apache 2.4 caused big changes to the authentication and authorization modules; if you use those be sure to read the apache 2.4 docs before upgrading so you can adapt accordingly
<sarnold> juenn: here's a starting point if you get stuck http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/howto/auth.html
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<Laney> not really here, but I just remembered while washing up
<Laney> if someone verifies the humanity-icon-theme SRUs then you might be able to ask to get them into 16.04.2 on monday
<Laney> byeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<flexiondotorg> Morning seb128
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg, how are you?
<seb128> who has an hidpi screen to verify the SRU mentioned by Laney?
<flexiondotorg> Good thanks.
<flexiondotorg> seb128 What I wanted to discuss ^
<seb128> I don't
<flexiondotorg> I'll test now.
<seb128> thanks!
<flexiondotorg> Because System76 have stepped up as requested and this solves a real problem for them and their customers :-)
<flexiondotorg> seb128 I've got another question for you.
<flexiondotorg> The modified desktop-launcher you created while making the platform snap.
<seb128> yes?
<flexiondotorg> Did that get submitted upstream?
<seb128> sure
<flexiondotorg> Cool, so probably in snapcraft 2.25?
<seb128> no
<seb128> the launcher is a remote part
<flexiondotorg> Aha, OK.
<seb128> https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/tree/runtime-refactor
<seb128> it's just that didrocks needs to merge that
<seb128> but he's off this week and didn't want to merge before being away in case it would create issues
<flexiondotorg> Sure.
<seb128> do you know if anyone is using the platform snap or do you want to rely on it for some of your snaps?
<flexiondotorg> DId you also see the new desktop stanza in snapcraft?
<flexiondotorg> No need for setup/ui directory now.
<seb128> yeah, good to see that landing, I nagged sergio about that for a while
<seb128> duplicating the desktop with translations wasn't making sense
<Sweet5hark> moin
<flexiondotorg> Sweet5hark o/
<flexiondotorg> seb128 It will take me about an hour to complete the HiDPI testing.
<flexiondotorg> I'll ping you when done.
 * Sweet5hark waves back at flexiondotorg.
<Sweet5hark> So, uhmm. Removing all the hackery Debian did in the bowels of the ./.debhelper dir enables building dbgsyms. Yeah \o/, I guess?
<Sweet5hark> although the dbgsym stuff is kinda mad for libreoffice, as I assume they all have to be installed manually (e.g. if you have a writer crash you need: libreoffice-writer-dbgsym & libreoffice-core-dbgsym & ure-dbgsym & libreoffice-gtk3-dbgsym & uno-libs3-dbgsym ...
<seb128> flexiondotorg, k, just comment on the bug and mark it verification-done/failed
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark
<davmor2> Morning all
<flexiondotorg> davmor2 o/
<seb128> hey davmor2
<juenn> sardnold: thanks much
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, hey
<flexiondotorg> seb128 I comment on the hidpi SRU for Xenial. It's all good. It was already tagged verification-done
<seb128> flexiondotorg, great, thank you!
 * desrt blinks
<desrt> hi, all
<seb128> hey desrt, happy friday!
<desrt> happy friday, seb!
<seb128> k, enough for this week, have a nice w.e desktopers!
<flexiondotorg> Seeya seb128
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-01-28
<nmcunix> hello
<nmcunix> any active persons here in the chat ?
<flocculant> not many - mostly quiet at weekend
<nmcunix> oh  hi flocculant
<nmcunix> i see
<flocculant> nmcunix: and if it's support you're after then #ubuntu anyway
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-01-22
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu!
<jibel> good morning
<duflu> Hi jibel
<jibel> Hi duflu didrocks
<didrocks> salut jibel
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<didrocks> hello oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<willcooke> Had a report that Bionic isn't rendering the Ubuntu Light and Ubuntu Thin font correctly.  Anyone else seen that?
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
<didrocks> I need to upgrade to it first, still on artful to quietly hack the Shell :p (but planned to upgrade just after FOSDEM)
<willcooke> I wonder if duflu  has noticed, likely if anyone did he did :)
<oSoMoN> same here, haven't upgraded yet, although I was planning on doing so this week
<duflu> willcooke, if it's not the default theme then I haven't looked in a very long time
<willcooke> :)
<duflu> willcooke, where's the report?
<willcooke> duflu, in my email from sabdfl :)  I'll open a bug
<willcooke> duflu, any ideas which project I should open it against?  The font itself?
<willcooke> GNOME Shell?
<duflu> willcooke, depends /how/ it looks wrong
<willcooke> duflu, ack. I'll fire up a VM and take a look
 * willcooke also hasn't upgraded to B
<willcooke> I've got it in a VM though
<duflu> It's what all the cool people are doing
<duflu> "libinput-test-suite-runner must be run as root"
 * duflu runs it as root
 * duflu sees machine turn off
<willcooke> heh
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<willcooke> woah, keyboard is messed up in my VM all of a sudden
<willcooke> hey seb128
<didrocks> salut seb128, bien rentrÃ© ?
<willcooke> (oh, maybe I had a key stuck down)
<seb128> hey willcooke didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, oui, merci
<Laney> yooooooooooo
<seb128> hey Laney
<didrocks> hey Laney
<duflu> sup Laney
<Laney> hey seb128 didrocks duflu
<seb128> hey duflu
<Laney> good weekends???
<Laney> seb128: good travel back?
<oSoMoN> morning seb128, Laney
<seb128> lut oSoMoN
<seb128> Laney, yeah, much better than on the way there :) I managed to sleep for a good part of the flight and to watch one movie
<didrocks> rainy week-end, but good
<didrocks> you?
<seb128> not rainy here, but cold!
<seb128> didn't do much, time to get back/unpack/etc it was already 3pm on saturday
<seb128> we walked a bit around yesterday and played some games later on, that's about it
<Laney> nothing stressful, good!
<Laney> we went to the indoor snowsports place not too far away
<Laney> had a snowboarding lesson
 * Laney fell over about 1000 times
<Laney> hey oSoMoN!
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg
<duflu> Morning flexiondotorg
<duflu> tjaalton, I got impatient :) - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libinput/+bug/1696929/comments/24
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1696929 in libinput (Ubuntu Bionic) "Touchpads are unresponsive and laggy for small finger movements" [High,In progress]
<tjaalton> duflu: heh, very well
<frechdachs69> Q: is someone here who has successfully automated 16.04 desktop installation using preseed?
<willcooke> duflu, I expect its this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-font-family/+bug/1512111
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1512111 in ubuntu-font-family-sources (Ubuntu) ""Ubuntu Light" font has heavier weight than "Ubuntu"" [Medium,In progress]
<willcooke> Laney, any ideas what the bug number was for the previous time we fixed that? ^
<Laney> do you mean https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-font-family-sources/+bug/1048600 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1048600 in ubuntu-font-family-sources (Ubuntu Quantal) "[FFe] Restore "Ubuntu Medium" weights in Ubuntu's binary .deb" [High,Fix released]
<willcooke> ahhhh
<Laney> The font itself hasn't changed since xenial
<Laney> so if there's a problem it's probably in the stack somewhere
<willcooke> ack, thanks Laney
<Laney> I can't tell a difference in that that correct / wrong file (https://launchpadlibrarian.net/344539285/test.html) :(
<Laney> https://imgur.com/a/HO2Zy
<willcooke> odd
<willcooke> This is what I see on A
<willcooke> https://imgur.com/a/27Y0X
<willcooke> Laney, Are you using Firefox?
<Laney> yeh
<willcooke> ah ah
<willcooke> yeah, looks fine in Firefox, wrong in Cr.*
<Laney> the bug said it was wrong everywhere fonts are rendered
<Laney> https://imgur.com/a/yBIly
<willcooke> So Cr. specific then?
<willcooke> I can make stuff light in Libre Office ok
<Laney> that's the only place that I can see it being wrong
<Laney> epiphany looks ok too
<Laney> maybe could try an older version of chromium or something
<duflu> willcooke, bug updated
<oSoMoN> willcooke, so the font is rendered incorrectly in chromium only?
<willcooke> oSoMoN, starting to look that way
<willcooke> thanks duflu
<duflu> AFAIK the bug is invalid
<duflu> AFAICT
<Laney> yeah I'm not sure local('Ubuntu Light') is a thing
<Laney> firefox doesn't actually render it 'lighter' AFAICS
<duflu> Yeah "Ubuntu Light" doesn't exist. You want "Ubuntu" and then select Style=Light, which CSS can't do
<duflu> Exit stage left
<willcooke> woo, first proper lock up in Artful
<willcooke> Jan 22 11:07:11 farnsworth kernel: [10943.367760] gnome-shell[1929]: segfault at 80 ip 00007f781fed83dc sp 00007ffe6f613e88 error 4 in libmutter-cogl-1.so[7f781fe97000+a5000]
<willcooke> ^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@
<willcooke> ^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@
<willcooke> sorry, pasted too much
<Trevinho> willcooke: mhmh, interesting... any core file?
<willcooke> Trevinho, I've got a .crash - you want that somewhere?
<Trevinho> willcooke: yeah please
<Trevinho> (snap install transfer, transfer /var/crash/fooo.crash) :)
<willcooke> Trevinho, transfer not working, how about worm hole?
<willcooke> oh wiaty
<willcooke> it's a problem reading the file
<willcooke> because its a crash file I assume
<willcooke> Trevinho, k, fixed
<willcooke> Trevinho, done
<andyrock> hey all
<czajkowski> andyrock: morning
<seb128> hey andyrock! how are you? had a good w.e?
<seb128> hey czajkowski
<andyrock> hey seb128
<andyrock> good enough
<andyrock> what about you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks :)
<Trevinho> seb128: we did some cooking challenge, Pasta e fagioli (his work) vs Lampredotto (my "baby" ) :-D
<Trevinho> (again we're in the same city, Torino)
<seb128> who won?
<andyrock> seb128: do you need to ask to know that? :D
<seb128> andyrock, congrats! :)
<seb128> not surprising, Trevinho doesn't even know Carbonara has cream
<seb128> :)
<Trevinho> :_(
<Trevinho> the belly won for sure!
<Laney> let's hire a kitchen at the next sprint
 * Laney wants to watch this magic in person
<Laney> hey Trevinho e andyrock
<Trevinho> hi Laney
<Trevinho> I was actually thinking the same... :-D
<Laney> :D
<Laney> I got a pasta maker for christmas
<Laney> need teaching by an expert :-)
<Laney> end up making a mess everywhere with the super long pasta on the smaller settings
<Trevinho> Laney: oh, I got one too... The philips one or a manual one?
<czajkowski> I'm getting hungry now thinking of spaghatti carbonara
<Laney> Trevinho: one of those normal manual ones
<Trevinho> spaghetti *alla* carbonara... :)
<Trevinho> Laney: ahhh.. Ok, so for egg-based pasta recipes I guess
<Laney> yeh
<Laney> tasty tasty egg
<czajkowski> Trevinho: :)
<Trevinho> Laney: cool... You can also make Ravioli or Lasagne with that... The classic recipe here is just 1egg every 100grams of flour, but it can vary if more people are coming might add an extra egg every 400, 500g
<Trevinho> And speaking of pasta, it's time for that here... see you :)
<seb128> Trevinho, enjoy!
<willcooke> andyrock, do you have a link to your work on disks hiding loop devices?  I want to mention it in the newsletter.
<andyrock> https://github.com/storaged-project/udisks/pull/460
<andyrock> I'm trying to understand right now why there is this failing test that looks unreleated but it's blocking the work
<willcooke> thanks andyrock
<andyrock> they said they're going to do that but it has been 12 days already
<willcooke> ack
<jbicha> good morning
<seb128> hey jbicha, how are you?
<jbicha> good
<jbicha> could you subscribe the bugs team to dconf (being renamed from d-conf) and orca (in bionic NEW, renaming from gnome-orca)?
<seb128> andyrock, did you try to ping them?
<andyrock> nope, I'll do if I'm not able to reproduce the problem locally slowing down the system
<seb128> jbicha, done
<jbicha> seb128: thanks, do you think we should reassign all the d-conf bugs to dconf?
<andyrock> why in ubuntu the file /etc/os-release  does not have a CPE_NAME entry?
<jbicha> dconf already has a dozen bugs that were initially misfiled there since the d-conf name wasn't intuitive
<seb128> jbicha, I wouldn't bother, but maybe it you triage/look which ones are still current
<jbicha> ok
<seb128> jbicha, also the old name is what needs to be used still for < bionic issues
<jbicha> yes, there needs to be a d-conf task if anyone wants to do an SRU there
<jbicha> seb128: could you accept orca from the bionic new queue? (it was uploaded in December)
<seb128> jbicha, I can add to my review queue yes
<seb128> is that blocking other work?
<jbicha> no, it just would be nice to finish up the rename
<seb128> k
<Laney> bah, ctrl-enter posts on discourse
 * Laney thought it might insert a new bullet
<seb128> Laney, unsure what you consider "making any perfect-enemy-of-good type of mistake?" in the text you quoted, my point was basically that any workflow/infra change at this point of the cycle would be a distraction by its nature
<Laney> hi seb128
<seb128> there is no quality/solution being ready aspect in that comment
<Laney> nothing in your comment, don't worry
<seb128> hey Laney :)
<Laney> I can forsee a situation where we don't switch away from bzr though until the new thing is super great
<seb128> which is already the case today from what has been said, so all good :)
<Laney> not sure if trolling
<seb128> I think it's more that the people who are familiar with the solution and its advantage haven't really done any effort to onboard others/the team
<seb128> out of telling them how great it is and how much they miss out by not having it
<Laney> ok, I thought that we were being asked to list advantages
<Laney> that's what I got from your message anyway
<Laney> please tell me why this is good
<seb128> well, it's good to tell us why it's so great
<Laney> so I tried to do that...
<seb128> no, I think it's good that we know about the pro/advantages
<seb128> I think that's part of the issues, those who are familiar with the workflow assume that others are as well or will see the value by themselve
<seb128> which might be true for some, but I think there is also value by summarizing what we find good and motivates the choices, for those less involved in the tools choices
<seb128> or who don't find things to be that obvious
<seb128> so thanks for doing that summary :)
<jbicha> seb128 or anyone: feel free to do a Debian update and we can help you with Salsa
<jbicha> gnome-calendar and gnome-photos have new 3.26 versions that need packaging
<seb128> jbicha, that feels backward
<seb128> I'm not asking for any change, if you want me to switch you should be one doing the job of convincing and documenting why
<jbicha> take a look at https://wiki.debian.org/Gnome/Git for more information about how to do the update
<seb128> I'm not interested, Ive enough to do
<seb128> but thanks
<Laney> :/
<seb128> again, if you expect people to switch you need to be the one doing the convincing
<jbicha> you're not interested in packaging GNOME updates any more??
<seb128> I am, but I've a perfectly working workflow for those
<jbicha> the proper way to update gnome-photos since it's synced is with the Debian workflow
<seb128> I'm not interested in gnoime-photos
<seb128> we are not using it
<jbicha> unless there was a particular need to be in a hurry (like an impending freeze or something), this upload was wrong IMO because it wasn't proposed to Debian
<jbicha> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-monitor/3.26.0-1ubuntu1
<seb128> come on
<jbicha> (I did notice a bit later and pushed it to Debian so that it's in sync now)
<jbicha> it's not like you don't have Debian upload rightsâ¦
<seb128> unsure if you are trying to convince me of changing my workflow, but you are going to wrong way about it
<seb128> you are making me want to argue back rather than agree with you there
<seb128> anyway I agree with you than in ideal world our packages would be in sync with Debian and changes go to Debian first
<seb128> in practice people are busy and not familiar with the team/toosl/flow involved
<seb128> which sure we can work on fixing
<seb128> but you are not going people over by telling them off
<jbicha> I created a wiki page and I and others in #debian-gnome are volunteering to help you learn the workflow
<seb128> good to know
<seb128> let's see who in our contributors use the option
<seb128> we can maybe see at the end of the cycle how many people went that way and learnt the new workflow/contributed back on the gnome channel rather than on launchpad
<Laney> you think it should just be an organic thing?
<seb128> I doubt the current onboarding approach is going to bring many people over
<seb128> by nature most people just focus on what they are doing and don't get out of their way to learn new tools/ways until they feel the need imho
<seb128> and I'm not sure most of us feel that need
<seb128> that's all I'm saying
<Laney> ok, I'll not bother spending much energy on pushing for this then
<seb128> now we are way to transition
<seb128> including forcing people to swallow it even if they don't want to
<seb128> or helping them onboard
<seb128> I'm not sure what would be the best way though
<seb128> Laney, don't let my comment stop you, others might be interested
<Laney> I think it'd have to be a "we are using this new workflow" now kind of thing to work properly
 * didrocks still thinks that doing a git-upstream based workflow is the right thing to do. Unsure we should investigate ubuntu-git/debian-git before this cycle feature freeze though (I for sure won't have time for this at least)
<Laney> IMO though - having people using different things all over the place wouldn't be optimally productive
<Laney> I thought that we had broad agreement on switching to a git-based thing, but I was mistaken there
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> but just for the sake of gbp pq, I'm in favor of this :)
<seb128> Laney, I  don't think anyone ever did the work to try to figure out what are the needs and want or people in ubuntu-desktop
<didrocks> then, once we are done in feature-land rush, we can properly try the different approach, evaluate pros and cons and take a decision which can be effective in the LTS+1 dev cycle
<didrocks> I guess that comes with some examples:
<didrocks> 1. merging from debian
<didrocks> 2. updating to a new upstream version
<didrocks> 3. editing an existing patch and sending it upstream
<didrocks> 4. creating a new patch
<didrocks> just showing examples and documented commands so that people have a feeling
<seb128> Laney, things got discussed in Debian and people went ahead assuming it would do it for us as well, which might be true or not be ....
<seb128> we have no data to work from
<jbicha> seb128: are you unconvinced about a git workflow too?
<Laney> I think I'm actually arguing for this approach rather than forcing it upon anyone
<didrocks> (ah, and 5. how a contributor can propose a change)
<didrocks> Laney: well, what you tell is right, the day we take a decision, everyone will have to comply, we can't have one part in bzr, the other in git, the last one in-no-vcsâ¦
<Laney> Right
<Laney> But I'm not saying "we should do this"
<seb128> jbicha, I don't know, I've no pre-made idea, I know that I find git hard to use as an user and I found full-source checkouts heavy in the past, so I would have to play with a suggested solution to see how it feels
<didrocks> oh, correct (I think we should do it, but just not "now" ;))
<jbicha> didrocks: I think the status quo right now is "part in bzr, part in git, part in no-vcs"
<Laney> I don't really understand what the big misstep was - to me this was the start of a discussion
<didrocks> jbicha: yeah, and and I agree that's not sustainable in the long term
<seb128> Laney, I don't think there is any misstep, the only thing we are pushing back on is the "let's switch today" that jbicha suggested
<seb128> it just feel the timing is wrong and that we lack of onboarding/preparation for that
<seb128> +1 on what didrocks said, let's wait for at least ff of this cycle, not get distracted of the work we are focussing on
<seb128> and we need to create content/examples and win people over by doing a proper job at showing them why they want it
<jbicha> I haven't been doing as many merges in the past couple weeks because of it being unclear which VCS I should push the Ubuntu changes to
<seb128> it's clear though
<seb128> the one in debian/control
<seb128> which atm are either bzr branches or no vcs usually
<seb128> you can even create a branch on salsa for your use if you want, just don't make it our official vcs yet
<jbicha> what about for a no-vcs, non-main package like gnome-builder?
<seb128> do what you want
<didrocks> the thing is that it may become out of sync, the "post-ff" thing is that people won't have the time to learn the new workflow at this stage of the cycle
<seb128> worth things people who disagree just dput without commiting to the vcs you self decided on
<seb128> which is likely what I would do if I had to land something in a package where you decided that one needs a salsa account to commit his changes
<Laney> Take me up on my offer to do some tutorials at ++$sprint
<Laney> if didrocks knows gbp-pq already maybe he can do one too ;-)
<didrocks> sure!
<jbicha> it takes a few seconds to create a Salsa account at https://signup.salsa.debian.org/
<didrocks> and I think we just write a wiki page with some typical day-by-day use case
<jbicha> as for permissions, you just have to ask the right person :)
<didrocks> as (I?) think I did when we moved to debian/ only branch
<seb128> jbicha, that's where you loose people over
<didrocks> jbicha: learning a new workflow isn't a few seconds
<didrocks> let's be honest on that :)
<seb128> I would have no idea who would be the "right person"
<seb128> and contributors shouldn't have to figure that out
<jbicha> the "right person" is log in to Salsa, visit the repo or the group and click Request Access
<seb128> Laney, but yeah, let's have some team sessions/walkthrough and gather feedback in budapest
<jbicha> or you can ping someone in IRC if you prefer
<willcooke> didrocks, do you have a link to the upstream PR for #1716432?
<willcooke> (window titles not centered)
<didrocks> willcooke: sure, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=792354
<ubot5> Gnome bug 792354 in general "panel: center date entry with workarea" [Normal,New]
<willcooke> didrocks, merci!  Also, "new sound options in settings" is that > 100% volume?
<didrocks> willcooke: Allan seems to have some seconds thoughts on it if you read the threads and may be willing to accept, didn't hear back though despite my last comment
<willcooke> ack
<willcooke> lets see
<willcooke> didrocks, "sound options in settings" is > 100%?
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> wait
<willcooke> maybe we're talking cross purposes
<didrocks> sounds like it
<willcooke> was your comment "Allan seems to have some second thoughts" re: sound or centering windows?
<didrocks> yo umention window titles not centered
<didrocks> ah, on centering windows
<willcooke> kk
<didrocks> the first answer was "no"
<didrocks> then, seeing a screen capture, he finds it weird indeed
<willcooke> got it
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, no replies to your g_app_info_launch_default_for_uri topic :/
<oSoMoN> nope indeed, I guess no one has hit the same issue yet
<kenvandine> i'm sure firefox isn't the only consumer of that api, so they will eventually
<seb128> oSoMoN, what topic?
<oSoMoN> seb128, https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/opening-a-local-file-with-its-default-application/3493
<seb128> oSoMoN, thanks
<kenvandine> hey seb128!
<seb128> hey kenvandine
<seb128> brb, changing location
<Laney> oSoMoN: does the OpenFile/OpenURI portal help you there? (once those work)
<GunnarHj> Hi jbicha, can you possibly help to get ibus-libpinyin updated (and with that possible to be MIR'ed).
<GunnarHj> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2018/01/16/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t13:47
<jbicha> happyaron: would you like to help with the ibus-libpinyin update?
<oSoMoN> Laney, I guess that depends on whether g_app_info_launch_default_for_uri will be rewritten to use those?
<oSoMoN> btw I'm not seeing any doc for OpenFile here:Â https://github.com/flatpak/xdg-desktop-portal/tree/master/data
<jbicha> GunnarHj: yes, I can help. Please remind me if it looks like I might have forgotten :)
<jbicha> didrocks: I replied to LP: #1713171 , not sure if you're subscribed there
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1713171 in gnome-todo (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-todo" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713171
<oSoMoN> Laney, https://github.com/flatpak/xdg-desktop-portal/blob/master/README.md says that Â« the OpenFile portal is working well as a backend for the GtkFileChooserNative API Â», so it doesn't look like what I'm after
<Laney> https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/tree/gio/gappinfo.c#n740
<GunnarHj> jbicha: In bug #1735362, comment #16 and #17, I explained what I think should be done. Two syncs and one upload with a (temporary) Ubuntu delta.
<ubot5> bug 1735362 in ibus-libpinyin (Ubuntu) "Replace ibus-sunpinyin with ibus-libpinyin" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1735362
<Laney> well line 759 specifically
<Laney> :-)
<didrocks> jbicha: oh, great that changed! I downloaded it on artful without checking the update, thanks! looking
<oSoMoN> Laney, oh wow, IÂ forgot that more often than not the code is the doc :)
 * didrocks reviews directly https://launchpadlibrarian.net/348923851/gnome-todo_3.26.1-0ubuntu4_3.26.2-2.diff.gz thus
<oSoMoN> all settled then, only have to wait for portals
<Laney> poor jamesh
<didrocks> jbicha: +  * Bump Breaks/Replaces for package split so that Ubuntu can sync now
<didrocks> but I don't see any "Replaces"
<didrocks> only Breaks:
<didrocks> which I think wouldn't work well on upgrade
<didrocks> (as you splitted the package)
<jbicha> ok, I'll add the Replaces to Debian too
<didrocks> jbicha: added some more comments as well
<jbicha> jackpot51: hi, I'm updating gnote in Debian. We should add 'pop' here too right? https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnote/commit/?id=74304ee
<willcooke> night all
<s10gopal> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104737 please help me
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 104737 in DRM/AMDgpu "amdgpu module does not bind to 1002:6660 R5 M330" [Major,New]
<s10gopal> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104737 please help me
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 104737 in DRM/AMDgpu "amdgpu module does not bind to 1002:6660 R5 M330" [Major,Resolved: notabug]
<jackpot51> jbicha: Yes, `pop` should be added there as well
<jackpot51> Thanks very much!
<jbicha> jackpot51: GNOME bug 792796 It will probably get into Ubuntu whenever we get gnote 3.28
<ubot5> Gnome bug 792796 in main "gschema: Add 'pop' to client-side-decorations default list" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=792796
<jackpot51> Great!
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-01-23
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> hey duflu, jibel
<duflu> Morning jibel
<frechdachs69> Q: how do I install and use KDM on Xenial? apt-cache does not give me any useful results for kdm?
<oSoMoN> good morning
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey didrocks
<duflu> o/ oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<andyrock> morning!
<didrocks> hey andyrock
<duflu> Hello andyrock
<oSoMoN> morning andyrock
<Laney> boop
<didrocks> buup Laney
<Laney> ÃÃ¶Ã¸?
<willcooke> ahoy!
<willcooke> jibel, seb128 - who did we say was going to run the meeting today?  Ken?
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> willcooke, yes, Ken
<willcooke> I'll send the reminder now then on his behalf
<willcooke> and done
<seb128> :)
<willcooke> duflu, I love reading your updates.
<duflu> willcooke, I can't tell if you're serious
<willcooke> Just the right level of detail, and usually good news
<willcooke> duflu, totally serious
<duflu> Oh, good. Happy Tuesday
<willcooke> \o/
<seb128> hey duflu
<duflu> Morning seb128
<didrocks> morning willcooke & seb128
<seb128> indeed, nice job on your updates duflu :)
<seb128> lut didrocks
<Laney> moin willcooke seb128 duflu didrocks
<duflu> Hi Laney
<andyrock> seb128: hey I found the problem with the udisk MP
<andyrock> it was a deadlock not linked with my code
<seb128> hey Laney andyrock
<seb128> andyrock, oh, nice one!
<willcooke> bah
<willcooke> The electrician is here today. aka The Prince Of Darkness.  Back online again
<ricotz> willcooke, haha, nice word play :)
<jbicha> willcooke or seb128: can I drop http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.bionic/view/head:/supported-sysadmin-desktop see LP: #1738046
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1738046 in system-config-kickstart (Ubuntu) "system-config-kickstart: Demote from main / thoughts on removing?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1738046
<jbicha> good morning
<didrocks> good morning jbicha
<jbicha> heads up on LP: #1744619 maybe we want to discuss at today's meeting? We'll need to add a Community hub discussion to let Unity in particular know that this is coming
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1744619 in network-manager-vpnc (Ubuntu) "libnm-glib removal transition" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1744619
<didrocks> good idea jbicha
<seb128> hey jbicha
<seb128> jbicha, no opinion from me on kickstart
<seb128> jbicha, is the libnm-glib removal an upstream move? in which version?
<jbicha> it's deprecated and being removed from Debian. The GNOME Shell part is probably landing in 3.28, see GNOME bug 789811
<ubot5> Gnome bug 789811 in general "[PATCH] network: port to libnm" [Normal,Assigned] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789811
<jbicha> gnome-control-center was ported away from libnm-glib sometime before 3.22 (according to the Debian changelog)
<seb128> jbicha, that lib is a part of network-manager source no?
<jbicha> yes
<seb128> is upstream removing it?
<jbicha> I don't know, maybe mbiebl knows
<seb128> if upstream isn't removing it why do we need to?
<jbicha> it's a pain to maintain diffs from Debian for all the NM plugins in Ubuntu
<seb128> I don't understand why we need a diff? if they transition them to not use that lib it's fine
<seb128> them making plugins not using the lib isn't a reason for having to remove the lib though, is it?
<seb128> keeping the lib gives us more option, not less
<jbicha> could you ask mbiebl your questions? :)
<seb128> mbiebl isn't suggesting we do anything in bionic afaik
<seb128> unsure why I would ask him questions
<seb128> you are the one who said wanted to discuss the topic
<jbicha> actually, he is because those VPN plugins would be autosynced to bionic now if I hadn't added a block-proposed bug
 * didrocks understood from the description that the package would be removed from Debian (and so, not coming from upstream), but it seems it's not the case
<seb128> jbicha, I don't see the issue of autosyncing the plugins?
<jbicha> I know that he held off from pushing the VPN plugins without libnm-glib support until he patched gnome-shell this week
<seb128> if they stop using a lib it's fine
<seb128> why would that be an issue?
<jbicha> my understanding is that gnome-shell's network menu won't display VPNs any more with the Debian VPN packages until we add the gnome-shell patches
<jbicha> I don't use VPNs, so I'm kinda guessing here
<seb128> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789811 has details
<ubot5> Gnome bug 789811 in general "[PATCH] network: port to libnm" [Normal,Assigned]
<seb128> but basically the issue is that you can't load the gir bindings for the old and new lib
<seb128> they symbol conflict or something
<seb128> so the shell extensions and code needs to be in sync on which one they use
<seb128> nothing requires us to drop libnm-glib though
<seb128> that's just a lib, u-c-c can keep using it fine
<seb128> the issue is when you mix both in the same process, e.g g-s and plugins
<seb128> so to me it seems fine to sync the plugins and include the g-s patch
<seb128> we don't need to remove the lib or port u-c-c if nobody has slots to work on that
<jbicha> when I asked mbiebl yesterday, he though that u-c-c wouldn't show VPNs (because the Debian VPN packaging drops support for the old library and I think u-c-c never got support for the new library)
<seb128> I don't understand that part
<seb128> it's also not clear to me that we need to build without -glib support to be able to able to use the libnm code
<alan_g> Hi, is there a way to prevent GTK apps drawing shadow decorations? (Preferably an env variable I can set when switching to Mir.)
<alan_g> It seems to have been asked on the internet many times without a useful (to me) answer.
<jibel> seb128, do we have to wait 7 days to publish update-notifier to the security pocket?
<seb128> jibel, that's a question for the security team I guess
<kenvandine> meeting time!
<seb128> over 1 min!
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan 23 14:31:35 2018 UTC.  The chair is kenvandine. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic:
<oSoMoN> bad karma for you Ken
<didrocks> hey hey
<jbicha> o/
<oSoMoN> o/
<kenvandine> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter (out), trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<seb128> hey :)
<andyrock> o/
<Trevinho> o/
<Trevinho>  /o/
<jibel> o/
<heber> o/
<kenvandine> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> 1. Fixed udisks patch to remove a deadlock that was causing failing tests (the problem was already there but never triggered)
<andyrock> 2. Working on integrating canonical-livepatch in the installer
<andyrock> 3. Investigating what needs to be done in order to provide a Ubuntu SSO experience with gnome-online-accounts
<andyrock> eow
<kenvandine> thanks
<kenvandine> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> working on bug #1644662 and bug #1743422
<ubot5> bug 1644662 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Icons missing when appearance setting is "high contrast"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1644662
<ubot5> bug 1743422 in unity (Ubuntu) "The launcher reveal doesn't always work when moving the pointer to the defined hot spot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1743422
<dgadomski> eof
<kenvandine> cool
<kenvandine> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> * Rebased ubuntu dock on latest master + some bug fixes. Uploaded to bionic.
<didrocks> * Contributed to travis.debian.net to support ubuntu! Hook that up in the communitheme work (to ensure every PR can at least build the sass code): https://github.com/lamby/travis.debian.net/pull/56 and https://github.com/lamby/travis.debian.net/pull/55.
<didrocks> * Pinged on the session discussion, didn't hear back yet. Meanwhile, implemented the "can disable session mode extension" instead of forcing them, and ensure -prefs reflect the correct status. This was the minimal agreement. Also, the widgets are disabled in -prefs if the gsettings keys aren't writable. Will need to update Tweaks and chrome extensions for this, but wait on upstream's feedback.
<didrocks> * Was pinged by Google as our codelab markdown support (https://tutorials.ubuntu.com) is better than their. They want it for Google I/O. I didn't have time to write tests at the time that's why I didn't contribute it back (I have other contributions to upstream codelabs). They will write the tests, so rebased and opened https://github.com/googlecodelabs/tools/pull/33.
<didrocks> * Got an icon and pinged again upstream for sound above 100%. Now, it's on the GNOME Shell review list!
<didrocks> * Look and read various changes proposed at GNOME Shell design hackfest.
<didrocks> * GCI finale reviews and help and cast my vote for winners.
<didrocks> * GNOME Todos MIR.
<didrocks> ?
<didrocks> . ;)
<kenvandine> thx didrocks
<kenvandine> #topic duflu (out)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic: duflu (out)
<kenvandine> * PulseAudio update 1:11.1-1ubuntu4
<kenvandine>   - Stuck in proposed due to never-ending testing? http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/bionic/update_excuses.html#pulseaudio
<kenvandine> * Bluetooth:
<kenvandine>   - Not really bluez, but FYI a major fix for Bluetooth on artful with Intel 8260/8265 (ie. impacting many systems) was released this week: https://launchpad.net/bugs/1729389
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1729389 in linux (Ubuntu) "[Intel 8260/8265] Bluetooth peripherals work for a few seconds, then don't react" [High,Confirmed]
<kenvandine> * Unresponsive touchpads (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696929)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1696929 in libinput (Ubuntu Bionic) "Touchpads are unresponsive and laggy for small finger movements" [High,In progress]
<kenvandine>   - Put together a new patch for bionic, and tested on some laptops.
<kenvandine>   - Now in proposed!, again: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libinput
<kenvandine> * Gnome Shell performance work:
<kenvandine>   - Great progress this week in reducing gnome-shell's CPU usage. Proposed two upstream fixes: https://launchpad.net/bugs/1743976
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1743976 in gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell is wasting CPU repainting unchanging panels" [Medium,In progress]
<kenvandine>   - Stuttering: Annoyingly I've found app stuttering is completely consistent, but also machine-specific and app-specific. Each machine stutters reliably on its own period, different to other machines. So I'm still trying to narrow down all the variables. Also still considering the possibility that high CPU (or realtime blockage) is related.
<kenvandine> * Gnome Shell minor visual fixes:
<kenvandine>   - Upstream fix pending (also helps reduce CPU usage): https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-shell/+bug/1744001
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1744001 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Expanded panel menus don't fade out cleanly on close" [Low,In progress]
<kenvandine> * Daily bug management across gnome-shell, mutter, gdm3, ubuntu-themes, bluez, pulseaudio, dkms, mir, wayland, totem, mpv, libinput.
<kenvandine> * HELP: Fixes still awaiting sponsorship:
<kenvandine>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/gtk/fix-1698270/+merge/331846
<kenvandine>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/totem/fix-1502476/+merge/333195
<kenvandine> whoops... that was racy :)
<kenvandine> #topic jbicha
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic: jbicha
<jbicha> â¢ Migrated Debian GNOME git repos from Alioth to https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/
<jbicha> â¢ Also helped Debian Fonts team with migration to Salsa
<jbicha> â¢ Renamed d-conf source package to dconf to match upstream name and hopefully eventually reduce confusion. Same for gnome-orca â orca (in bionic NEW)
<jbicha> â¢ Uploaded gnome-terminal 3.26 after Egmont Koblinger fixed our pcre2-revert patch for vte2.91 0.50.
<jbicha> â¢ Packaged woff2 and filed MIR LP: #1742743 (needed for webkit2gtk soon)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1742743 in woff2 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] woff2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1742743
<jbicha> â¢ Debian GNOME team has adopted bijiben, geary, and gnote
<jbicha> â¢ Sponsored the ibus-libpinyin and friends packages that GunnarHj requested last week
<jbicha> â¢ Looking into libnm-glib issue with NetworkManager VPN plugins LP: #1744619
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1744619 in network-manager-vpnc (Ubuntu) "libnm-glib removal transition" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1744619
<jbicha> eof
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> #topic jamesh (out)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic: jamesh (out)
<kenvandine> - At linux.conf.au this week, and snapcraft summit next week
<kenvandine> #topic jibel/heber
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic: jibel/heber
<jibel> -Investigated bug 1648534 and concluded that part of the problem is caused by out of date packages. The theory is that part of the problem is due to update notifications not triggered when there are updates availabled. Verified the fix proposed by seb128. Waiting for publication to the security pocket
<jibel> - Bootspeed: Looking into gnome-shell startup time.
<jibel> - Users of EOL releases with third party source configured cannot updated to a newer release. Triaged upgrade bug 1744722 and working on a fix. Itâs preventing users of EOL release with third party sources configured to upgrade to a newer release.
<ubot5> bug 1648534 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Xenial) "gnome-software crashed with SIGTRAP in g_wakeup_new from g_main_context_new from g_dbus_connection_send_message_with_reply_sync from g_dbus_connection_call_sync_internal from g_dbus_connection_call_sync" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1648534
<jibel> - When ubiquity crashes during installation, the apport hook fails to attach syslog. Fixed it (bug 1582950)
<jibel> Fixing/making more stable gnome-software tests submitted by GCI  (we have a total of 19 new tests from participants)
<ubot5> bug 1744722 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Unknown bad source brings up during 'zesty' to 'artful' upgrade and It break the process" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1744722
<jibel> Test new version of bluez snap 5.48
<ubot5> bug 1582950 in apport (Ubuntu) "broken apport hook: TypeError: a bytes-like object is required, not 'str'" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1582950
<jibel> - Daily bug triage
<jibel> ..
<seb128> jibel, did you write down your gnome-shell/startup finding somewhere?
<seb128> is that g-s session or just the shell binary?
<jibel> seb128, not yet, I just started last week
<jibel> seb128, just the shell binary
<jibel> it's the main consumer from boot charts
<seb128> k
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic: kenvandine
<kenvandine> -  Updated the gnome-software SRU fixing bug 1690280
<kenvandine> - Worked on getting builds of the reverse depends needed for a gnome-software classic snap
<kenvandine> - Backported gtkmm and depends to the gnome-3-26 PPA to ease getting the new gtk3 inkscape snap built and in the store
<ubot5> bug 1690280 in GNOME Software "Classic confined snaps don't install" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690280
<kenvandine> #topic laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic: laney
<Laney> o Finished build system / integration work for systemd user session stuff, pushed branches upstream, waiting for some (any!) comments
<Laney> o Started investigating gnome clocks alarm systemd stuff which should work when the above is integrated, some outstanding questions around timezones but can get going on this
<Laney> o Bit of autopkgtest maintenance, turned s390x back on, waiting for rest of the clouds to be fixed before we can turn the other arches on again. proposed is going to be a bit of a mess, should probably help cleaning that out
<Laney> o Some random discussions on using git in the team
<Laney> ?
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> #topic oSoMoN
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic: oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey
<oSoMoN> â¢ firefox
<oSoMoN>   â tested latest snap build, looks good except for localization (regression, already fixed in master)
<oSoMoN> â¢ chromium
<oSoMoN>   â updated stable to 63.0.3239.132 in bionic, still waiting on autopkgtests for arm* to run before it migrates from -proposed
<oSoMoN>   â updated snap in candidate channel and issued call for testing: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/call-for-testing-chromium-63-0-3239-132/3627
<oSoMoN>   â updated beta to 64.0.3282.99 and snap in beta channel
<oSoMoN>   â updated dev to 65.0.3322.3 and snap in edge channel
<oSoMoN>   â finished patch to allow searching for the widevine CDM libs in $HOME/.local/lib, to make this mechanism snap-friendly (currently beta and dev branches)
<oSoMoN>   â fixed bug #1742653
<ubot5> bug 1742653 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chromium-browser 63+ packages 50+ MB of binaries only needed at build time" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1742653
<oSoMoN>   â tested again accessibility with local build of 65.0.3315.3, still not working (no ATK events at all seen on chromium application), reported to upstream
<oSoMoN> â¢ libreoffice
<oSoMoN>   â tested snap build of 6.0.0, need to investigate further some unit test failures
<oSoMoN>   â looking into 5.4.4 bionic autopkgtest failures, it appears my apparmor profile fixes are to blame
<oSoMoN> That's all folks ð°
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ travelled to CapeTown with the flu, that was no fun
<seb128> â¢ mid-cycle sprint/review of the plans, no surprises but some new work added to our list (mostly reasonable installer changes, see trello)
<seb128> â¢ looked at why we are still getting report from an old gnome-software/xenial version, SRUed a potential update-notifier fix that should resolves cases where users don't get update-manager auto-opened
<seb128> â¢ travelled back without the flu this time, that was better ;)
<seb128> â¢ reported some of the .config dir permissions issues upstream, they are not convinced it makes a difference if .config is readable or not if other user dirs are
<seb128> â¢ post-travelling emails/catchup
<seb128> â¢ irc discussions (git workflow,
<seb128> nmglib, etc)
<seb128> </week>
<kenvandine> the flu... yuck!  glad you're feeling better now!
<seb128> thx!
<kenvandine> #topic tkamppeter (out)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic: tkamppeter (out)
<kenvandine> - systemd: Tests for finding out why auto setup of USB printers stopped working in Artful. Problem was that device does not get unregistered from systemd when unplugging. Updated to Bionic and problem went away.
<kenvandine> - system-config-printer: Updated UDEV rules and systemd unit file to upstream-supplied ones as these work around the quoting/unquoting problem of systemd (bug 1721839).
<kenvandine> - system-config-printer: Updated ippusbxd support patch to only start ippusbxd when printer is not HP (HPs get set up with HPLIP to make scanning work) and to not create a queue when ippusbxd is used as cups-browsed or CUPS creates a queue then.
<kenvandine> - ippusbxd: Released upstream version 1.32: Minor changes, mostly bug fixes and documentation.
<ubot5> bug 1721839 in systemd (Ubuntu) "[REGRESSION] Services asked for by UDEV do not get triggered" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1721839
<kenvandine> - CUPS/cups-filters: Tests and fixes on color space and color depth support in auto-generated PPD files for driverless printers. Reported bugs to CUPS upstream, they are fixed now.
<kenvandine> - Bugs.
<kenvandine> #topic trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic: trevinho
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed a glib-appstream crash:
<Trevinho>   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/appstream/+bug/1744941
<Trevinho> Â· Rework for various JS fixes patch:
<Trevinho>   https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=791233
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed various workspace and and thumbnails positioning issues:
<Trevinho>   https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=792687
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed bug causing a window to be wrongly positioned in activities
<Trevinho>   https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=792681
<Trevinho> Â· Fingerprint: prepared some pam settings, doing some testing
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1744941 in appstream (Ubuntu) "gnome-software crashes in as_app_parse_desktop_file" [High,In progress]
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed a GtkCssProvider issue ignoring theme changes when using named
<Trevinho>   themes (for mutter frame theming)
<ubot5> Gnome bug 791233 in general "Various Javascript errors in accessing deleted object properties" [Normal,New]
<Trevinho> Â· Reload mutter frames on theme changes
<ubot5> Gnome bug 792687 in general "workspaceThumbnail: only update _porthole if the overview is visible" [Normal,Assigned]
<ubot5> Gnome bug 792681 in general "Window is wrongly positioned in activities when just opened and replaced" [Normal,Assigned]
<Trevinho> ð
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> #topic robert_ancell (out)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic: robert_ancell (out)
<kenvandine> - Guest session work
<kenvandine> - GNOME Software work
<kenvandine> - LightDM 1.18.4, 1.24.1, 1.25.1 releases
<kenvandine> - Simple Scan 3.26.3 release
<kenvandine> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-23 | Current topic: aob
<jbicha> seb128: do you plan to enable bionic langpacks soon?
<seb128> jibel, I was waiting on the launchpad team to do an export, I emailed them a few weeks ago
<seb128> seems like they didn't reply to my email but did an export on thursday now
<seb128> so I'm add that to my list for this week
<jbicha> thanks
<seb128> yw, thanks for pointing that out
<kenvandine> anything else?
<sil2100> Sorry to interrupt
<kenvandine> hey sil2100!
<kenvandine> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan 23 14:47:06 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2018/ubuntu-desktop.2018-01-23-14.31.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks everyone
<seb128> urg
<sil2100> seb128: the bionic langpack exports are now weekly + I set up l-o-m to do a langpack run on the next day, we're using the schedule of yakkety now
<kenvandine> sil2100, not interrupting at all :)
<seb128> I though jbicha wanted to discuss nm-glib?
<kenvandine> oh...
<kenvandine> sorry
<kenvandine> i thought i waited long enough :)
<didrocks> I don't know if the previous discussion was already enough and derailed the aob ;)
<seb128> sil2100, k, it's annoying how guys are doing those changes and keep us out of the loop, I had emailed wgrant mid decembre about that and never got a reply
<seb128> sil2100, anyway, I consider then that you handle langpacks/translations and I stop carring then, one less thing to do :)
<didrocks> (that should have been a \o/)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> jbicha, didrocks, bottom line on that nm-glib issue from what I understood is that g-s/plugins need to use the same code, we don't need to drop nm-glib since it doesn't hurt having it around, but somebody needs to investigate the impact on unity and if people have time to fix u-c-c/how much of an issue that is for their team
<seb128> solutions probably include re-enable the nm-glib code in the plugins (if that doesn't lead to issues with g-s)
<sil2100> seb128: sorry about that! I just didn't know who's responsible for those actually, making sure the langpacks are up and running was in the release checklist so I 'followed' :(
<seb128> GunnarHj, jbicha, seems like sil2100 took over langpacks so if you have questions/issues with those in the futur he's the one to redirect complains to
<seb128> sil2100, pitti handed that over to me when he left so I've been looking after it, but you taking over is fine
<sil2100> seb128: the LP team already prepped everything beforehand, then they seemed to be waiting for someone to give them green light
<seb128> pitti, sorry for the ping :)
<pitti> seb128: don't be; nice to see that they stay in good hands :)
<seb128> sil2100, as said, I email them and they never bothered replying
 * pitti hugs sil2100 and se128
<seb128> pitti, :)
<pitti> and seb128 too
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * sil2100 hugs pitti and seb128 
<sil2100> Hug party!
<pitti> seb128: in fact, I got a few "udisks" pings from the meeting and was secretly reading along
<seb128> haha
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> andyrock has been doing good work :)
<sil2100> seb128: anyway, I can surely help with langpacks as I have some bare knowledge, but didn't mean to snatch that from you if you're the driver
 * pitti hugs andyrock too then :)
<andyrock> :D
<seb128> sil2100, well you just did so congrats on the new reponsability :)
<pitti> sil2100: I figure it's much more of a hot potato than a trophy :)
<sil2100> seb128: I... I don't think I actually want that ;p
<jbicha> pitti: don't tell him! ;)
<seb128> sil2100, too late :p
<sil2100> seb128: but seriously speaking, if you want I can indeed pick this up, but I hope you won't mind me poking with questions?
<seb128> sil2100, well, I don't care either way, I just want those "doing conflicting working without talking to each others" to stop, that already happened previous cycle
<seb128> sil2100, so I let you drive
<seb128> sil2100, feel free to ask if you have questions
<seb128> working->work
 * pitti reads https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-3531-2/ , what a mess..
<sil2100> seb128: thanks and again, sorry about that
<seb128> no worry
<sil2100> Seems like I sometimes suck in checking if work is not duplicated, eh
<seb128> sil2100, so when do you plan to do a base upload to bionic?
<pitti> mdeslaur: ... so away with microcode, and retpoline it is? :/
<seb128> sil2100, also https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule still has RTM slots, shouldn't we stop those?
<tkamppeter> kenvandine, can you have a look at my packages in NEW: cpdb-libs, cpdb-backend-cups, cpdb-backend-gcp?
<seb128> pitti, I though retpoline was more complex and less safe and such not plan A, did that change?
<kenvandine> tkamppeter, i'm not an archive admin
<kenvandine> tkamppeter, maybe seb128?  please? :)
<pitti> seb128: right, and AFAIUI it actually requires rebuilding everything
<sil2100> seb128: I think they're not actually used on the crontab, just the document needs refreshing - as for the base packs, I guess since I just got a new thing on my plate, I'll try running the base packs this week
<pitti> seb128: but I thought plan A (microcode) just got pulled
<tkamppeter> seb128, can you have a look at my packages in NEW: cpdb-libs, cpdb-backend-cups, cpdb-backend-gcp?
<pitti> not that I would know plan B or C, I'm just curious
<sil2100> seb128: I'll keep you in the loop
<seb128> kenvandine, tkamppeter, I can add to my list but unsure when I will get to it
<seb128> sil2100, thanks
<tkamppeter> seb128, will it be possible to get it into 18.04, including the MIR afterwards?
<seb128> pitti, I'm curious as well, I've no idea if plan A got pulled or just needs another better iteration
<pitti> seb128: yeah, let's hope for a fixed Âµcode..
<seb128> pitti, my understanding was that retpoline was also tricky to get right because any third party module not rebuilt with it could screw your security
<pitti> rebuilding the entire release would be a helluva security update..
<pitti> although it probably doesn't matter for 95% of teh archive, but identifying the 5% that do seems awfully tricky too
<seb128> tkamppeter, that I don't know, depends of how busy the MIR team is and what the review outcome is, also it's new code so unsure it has been tested enough to be included in a LTS during the same cycle
<seb128> pitti, right :/
<pitti> time to dust off my old Pentium 60?
<mdeslaur> pitti: updated microcode will come back, as it's useful for userspace and for hypervisors
<mdeslaur> pitti: retpoline doesn't cover all use cases
<pitti> mdeslaur: ah good, so still plan A v2.0
 * pitti hugs mdeslaur too, "good" times to be in security teams
 * mdeslaur hugs pitti 
<mdeslaur> :)
<pitti> mdeslaur: but still, my impression is that by far the biggest real-life door for this are (1) JS code and (2) untrusted VMs, right? and (1) has been thwarted by browsers by reducing the timer precision
<pitti> so I guess for pretty much all client computers there's no reason to panic
<pitti> (servers running cloud stuff are a different issue, of course)
<pitti> (one of my favourite fixes recently - make computers compute less correctly to *improve* things)
<tkamppeter> seb128, if it does not work, then we make it a central project of 18.10 and schedule the needed steps in Budapest, especially to get time slots at the NEW and at the MIR team.
<seb128> tkamppeter, NEW and MIR are not the issue there, it's going to get done
<seb128> tkamppeter, but it seems risky to want to make new/untested code be added and used by default during the LTS cycle
<tkamppeter> seb128, OK, this I understand.
<kenvandine> seb128, can you please reject my packagekit upload to xenial
<kenvandine> seb128, i put the ppa arg after the changes file in my dput :)
 * kenvandine grumbles
<seb128> kenvandine, done
<kenvandine> seb128, thx!
<seb128> yw!
<kenvandine> i haven't made that mistake in years...
<Laney> at least it was a frozen suite :P
<kenvandine> Laney, indeed
<Laney> if you use ~ppa versions and dput-ng then you get an error when doing that
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, the chromium snap must have updated. it's been a while since the icon has lost it's mind :)
<kenvandine> Laney, oh... dput-ng?
<kenvandine> never heard of that
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, yes I published a few updates yesterday and today, which channel?
<kenvandine> edge
<Laney> kenvandine: yah, dput with safety checks
<oSoMoN> right, IÂ updated it a couple of hours ago
<Laney> don't think it would have saved you in this case tho
<kenvandine> Laney, excellent, i'll have to switch :)
<kenvandine> yeah, i had xenial in the version :)
<kenvandine> not ~ppa
<kenvandine> i haven't made this goof up since the precise cycle, so i don't do it often :)
<Laney> there's this thing that can happen in Debian
<kenvandine> and it was an upload that i was confident was going to go to precise, just wanted to test in a ppa first :)
<Laney> if you use sbuild to build your changes file (e.g. sbuild -d unstable) then this is the target your upload gets, regardless of what the changelog says
<Laney> lots of uploads end up accidentally going to sid instead of experimental because of this
<kenvandine> ugh
<Laney> but dput-ng catches that one :-)
<Laney> I did that with glib2.0 a few years ago
<Laney> epic fail
<Laney> was during the freeze too
<kenvandine> excellent
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Problems. qtwebengine-opensource-src has not been built in ppc64el and s390x. Not sure what the proper resolution is. One way might be to not build fcitx-libpinyin in those architectures.
<GunnarHj> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fcitx-libpinyin/0.5.2-1~exp1/+build/14263698
<GunnarHj> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtwebengine-opensource-src/5.9.3+dfsg-0ubuntu1
<jbicha> GunnarHj: you'll just need to ask a member of ~ubuntu-archive to remove the ppc64el/s390x binaries for those arches
<jbicha> qtwebengine-opensource-src has a lot of rdeps so we've had to do that often already
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Without modifying debian/control?
<jbicha> yes, if qtwebengine ever supports additional arches, we'll get those binaries built almost automatically then :)
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Ok, I'll ping someone.
<GunnarHj> Hi seb128: Can you please remove the ppc64el/s390x binaries for fcitx-libpinyin from the archive, so the other architectures make it to -release. (fcitx-libpinyin depends on binaries from qtwebengine-opensource-src.)
<GunnarHj> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fcitx-libpinyin/0.5.2-1~exp1
<willcooke> Night all.  Wont be around tomorrow morning on IRC but will be on Telegram.
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-01-24
<Trevinho> duflu: mh, I've no idea in how reproducing https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1745070
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1745070 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "Decorations/headerbars are broken in bionic: double bar in Xorg logins and missing in Wayland logins" [High,New]
<duflu> Trevinho, yeah weird. It's only my desktop. Not on a fully updated laptop
<Trevinho> it's like it's not getting the atom from xorg
<duflu> Also I got it to look right *once* and then on the next login it was broken again
<duflu> Wayland works fine if I log into that one first. Then it's broken if I try again (after Xorg)
<duflu> Trevinho, if nobody confirms it I might have to reinstall this machine. It's been hacked for mutter/gnome-shell testing in the past
<duflu> RAOF: Do you know anything about mesa-demos/mesa-utils? I was waiting for a fix but it hasn't had any upstream releases for 2 years
<duflu> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/demos/
<RAOF> duflu: I'm not surprised it hasn't seen any releases; the code is super-simple.
<RAOF> What bug have you seen?
<duflu> RAOF: Remember wayland gears 40FPS?
<duflu> The fix landed in July
<RAOF> Oh, hah.
<RAOF> Well, it's nobody's priority.
<duflu> RAOF: Would it be inappropriate to snapshot git for bionic?
<RAOF> Not at all.
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> salut oSoMoN, Ã§a va bien ?
<oSoMoN> seb128, salut! pas trÃ¨s bien dormi, mais on a connu pireâ¦ et toi, Ã§a va?
<seb128> ouais, rÃ©veillÃ© trop tÃ´t mais sinon Ã§a va
<jibel> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut jibel
<jibel> salut oSoMoN
<duflu> salut oSoMoN, seb128, jibel
<seb128> hey hey hey
<oSoMoN> salut duflu
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> And hi didrocks
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey flexiondotorg!
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg
<duflu> Morning flexiondotorg
<Laney> moin
<duflu> Morning Laney
<koza> jibel, seb128, are you guys joining bt mtg?
<koza> and morning :)
<seb128> koza, sorry since will is not there I assumed we were skipping
<seb128> hey Laney
<jibel> koza, sorry I missed the notification. Are you still in the meeting?
<didrocks> morning Laney
<didrocks> & jibel
<jibel> hi didrocks
<duflu> jibel, for future reference, user bugs shouldn't be assigned to 'wayland'. That package just contains protocol stuff for developers really. Most wayland session bugs have nothing to do with the 'wayland' package
<duflu> So they are gnome-shell or mutter bugs
<jibel> duflu, how do you tag bugs that happen only on wayland?
<duflu> jibel, 'wayland' or 'wayland-session'
<jibel> wayland-session is automatically added by apport if the bug report is sent from a wayland session
<jibel> so there are tons of it and it doesn't really mean anything
<jibel> ah, you were referring to the chrome bug
<duflu> jibel, yeah I noticed that so use wayland-session now. It's often helpful to explain more about the bug
<jibel> yeah, it was assigned xorg with is not correct either
<duflu> jibel, also gnome-shell bugs are being reported against xorg and xorg-server but I ignore half of those... already subscribed to too much bug traffic
<andyrock> good morning
<andyrock> seb128: I found a way to use gnome-online-accounts for sso
<seb128> hey andyrock
<seb128> andyrock, oh, nice, how?
<andyrock> it requires some patches upstream (to build python bindings for goa-backend=
<seb128> those don't exist yet?
<andyrock> not for goa-backend
<seb128> k
<andyrock> goa-backend is required to make software-properties (or the installer) to prompt
<andyrock> so if an account does not exists yet we can prompt a login dialog
<andyrock> the only major problem I see know is how to feed the keys that we in the installer into the user session
<andyrock> apart from the fact that xenial does not have gnome-online-account
<andyrock> *i see now
<seb128> right, let's focus on the right solution for bionic first though
<GunnarHj> Hey seb128, did you see my ping about fcitx-libpinyin yesterday? Is it something you can help with?
<GunnarHj> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2018/01/23/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t16:27
<willcooke> Hi all, back home
<didrocks> wb willcooke!
<oSoMoN> hey willcooke
 * willcooke needs to have 6 teeth out.  4 wisdom teeth, and 2 bottoms ones next to the wisdom teeth because they've been wrecked by the wisdom teeth.
<willcooke> Go to the dentists more than once every 20 years kids!
<didrocks> willcooke: urgh on the extra 2 bottom ones :/
<didrocks> willcooke: do you have an appointment for extracting them?
<oSoMoN> ouch
<Laney> whoops
<Laney> that's a hospital one I guess?
<willcooke> Yeah
<willcooke> This was a consultancy to talk through whats going on
<willcooke> and now I just wait for an appointment
<willcooke> some months I expect
<willcooke> The Dr said it should be fairly straight forward though
<willcooke> fingers crossed
<Laney> string + door
<chrisccoulson> I'd have my bottom ones out again if I could. Just for the drugs
<willcooke> heheh
<chrisccoulson> :)
<willcooke> I opted for local only, perhaps that wasnt wise
<chrisccoulson> willcooke, I had local only, but they pumped me fullof midazolam
<chrisccoulson> so I didn't care too much
<willcooke> woot, hope I get some of that too
<didrocks> just ask for one tooth per visit :p
<didrocks> and space them with few days in between
<seb128> hey GunnarHj, I saw but didn't have time to look at that yet
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, no urgency, but can you please put it on your list.
<seb128> yes
<seb128> did you check if those binaries have rdepends or if they can be removed without more work?
<GunnarHj> seb128: No.. Will get back about it.
<seb128> thanks
<GunnarHj> seb128: We are talking about fcitx-libpinyin and fcitx-libpinyin-dbgsym in bionic ppc64el/s390x. No reverse depends as far as I can see.
<seb128> GunnarHj, thanks for checking
<jbicha> didrocks: could you promote orca to main and remove source gnome-orca?
<jbicha> also you can try promoting fonts-noto-color-emoji to main now
<didrocks> jbicha: was there a source rename for orca? (something to track/get the details ?)
<jibel> kenvandine, everything's good with gnome-software in xenial-proposed
<GunnarHj> seb128: I opened translations for and changed focus to bionic. Hope that's ok.
<GunnarHj> I see that a full language pack has been built:
<GunnarHj> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+language-packs
<seb128> GunnarHj, you have the power to open translations? I though that was done by the launchpad team?
<seb128> GunnarHj, in any case sure, sounds good to me, we discussed langpacks yesterday on this channel
<didrocks> missed opportunity seb128, you should have said: "oh, ensure you ping sil2100 about it, he's the new langpack master victim" ;)
<seb128> didrocks, that's right :)
<kenvandine> jibel, awesome, thanks!
<sil2100> heh ;)
<sil2100> Yeah, will get to that soon
<GunnarHj> Well, I have the power to "unhide" it here:
<GunnarHj> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+translations-admin
<GunnarHj> Think it's because I'm member of ~ubuntu-translations-coordinators.
<GunnarHj> Reviewed yesterday's IRC log. Has sil2100 taken over it from you?
<GunnarHj> seb128: ^
 * Laney cries
<Laney> xnox: do you know how to spy on messages on systemd's private bus?
<sil2100> I didn't want to, I did that by accident
<Laney> I want to look at what systemd-run does but it doesn't use the normal session/system bus
<seb128> GunnarHj, seems so yes
<seb128> didrocks, sorry about the trello board, dnd has been unreliable for me for some reason, dropping the card I was moving on the way and picking the one which was under at this time to finish the dnd
<didrocks> seb128: no pb :)
<Laney> ah maybe xnox is off
<Laney> pitti: ^--- don't suppose you've ever done that before?
<Laney> & hey :-)
<pitti> Laney: hey! ah, I'm afraid not, other than "strace" - the normal dbus-monitor wouldn't work
<Laney> indeed
<Laney> just wondered if there was some trick
<pitti> I think systemd-run needs some extra API that the normal dbus doesn't provide; it's not just an accident/bug
<Laney> looking at the code it feels like normal dbus
 * Laney sucks and can't get StartTransientUnit to work
<Laney> Error: GDBus.Error:System.Error.ENXIO: No such device or address
<Laney> THANKS LENNART
<Laney> back in a minute, mexican three bean wrap is calling
<seb128> kenvandine, do you know what's the status of https://trello.com/c/Taa8Urjo/63-bug1661590-support-multiple-apps-in-a-snap ? it feels like the card could deserve an update, it's "in progress"  for a long time with no activity
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey, I reviewed the common printing dialogs new packages and accepted them
<kenvandine> seb128, i'll find out, thx
<jbicha> didrocks: yes, gnome-orca source was renamed to orca, but there's no bug report for it
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<jibel> mdeslaur, do you know when update-notifier from xenial-proposed will be copied to the security pocket? (if it's still the plan)
<mdeslaur> jibel: I'm not sure...I assume the SRU team is waiting the 7-day waiting period before releasing it
<jibel> okay, one more day then
<mdeslaur> jibel: if they don't release it in the next couple of days, ping them?
<mdeslaur> ping me if there's an issue
<seb128> kenvandine, also https://trello.com/c/5x2jLgX0/138-support-snap-channels could do with a status update I guess?
<jibel> mdeslaur, yes, thanks
<didrocks> jbicha: mind filing something so that we track it?
<jbicha> didrocks: hmm, is LP: #1739917 close enough?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1739917 in orca (Ubuntu) "Please merge orca after source package rename" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1739917
<didrocks> jbicha: ah, sounds good!
<didrocks> jbicha: the orca new binary package stays in universe, correct?
<didrocks> "On second thought, I guess this bug is a bit unnecessary since the 'orca' binary package will need to be manually promoted to main anyway.
<didrocks> "
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> anyway, orca binary package is already in main
<didrocks> jbicha: done: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/orca/+bug/1739917/comments/2
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1739917 in orca (Ubuntu) "Please merge orca after source package rename" [Undecided,Fix released]
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, I bin NEWed to main when I reviewed it since it was replacing a package in main
<didrocks> oki, sounds good!
<jbicha> ð¤ 
<jbicha> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/removal-of-headerbar-patches-and-impact-on-unity/1456/31
<mdeslaur> argh, I keep clicking on notifications by mistake
<mdeslaur> having them in the middle is a pita...on os x they appear on the right, a distance away from the window buttons, and the menu
<mdeslaur> but there's no place to put them where they don't get in the way when the menus are inside the window, or worse in the headerbar, and the window decorations are on the right
<jbicha> I don't understand. Wouldn't the middle be the spot you're least likely to accidentally click?
<mdeslaur> not really, I have windows there
<mdeslaur> when I have a window to the left of my screen, the window buttons are in the middle
<mdeslaur> when I have a window to the right of my screen, the menu is in the middle
<jbicha> I think the solution is to just make the headerbars larger! ð
<mdeslaur> sure, if you make them take up half the screen, then notifications will have plenty of room ;P
<jbicha> oh and then there's a ninja edit "but wait"
<Laney> laney@nightingale> gdbus call --session --dest org.freedesktop.systemd1 --object-path /org/freedesktop/systemd1 --method org.freedesktop.systemd1.Manager.StartTransientUnit "laney.timer" "fail" "[('OnActiveSec', <@t 10>)]" "[]"
<Laney> (objectpath '/org/freedesktop/systemd1/job/7505',)
<Laney> yay, finally
<jbicha> ð
<Laney> it was the @t I was missing
<oSoMoN> ricotz, just FYI, the LO autopkgtest failures I mentioned the other day are due to https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115208
<ubot5> bugs.documentfoundation.org bug 115208 in LibreOffice "Apparmor profile doesn't allow java execution" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<willcooke> night all, see you tomorrow
<ricotz> oSoMoN, thanks
<oSoMoN> good night
<jdstrand> kenvandine: hey, I'm not sure if you saw, but mvo and I were discussing the xdg-settings pr. I advocated on behalf of you and will to have it in 2.31, but they are trying to cut 2.31 soon (it is rc1), so you might want to chat with Will if you want it in
<jdstrand> (with Will to chat with mvo)
<kenvandine[m][m]> jdstrand: thx
<jdstrand> kenvandine[m][m]: afaic, it is quite close. I just had a couple of small things
<kenvandine[m][m]> Ok, I'll talk to him
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-01-25
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning jibel and didrocks
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Hi seb128
<seb128> hey duflu
<didrocks> hey hey duflu, seb128
<seb128> hey didrocks :)
<jibel> hi duflu and everyone
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<seb128> salut oSoMoN, Ã§a va ?
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, Ã§a va et toi?
<seb128> reveillÃ© un peu tÃ´t mais Ã§a va sinon
<oSoMoN> moi jâai dormi comme une fleur :)
<seb128> veinard :)
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN ;)
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, Ã§a va?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, rÃ©veillÃ© tÃ´t Ã©galement par contre :)
 * duflu does the engineer's victory dance
<duflu> Good morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu, what's the dance for?
<duflu> oSoMoN, I correctly predicted mutter's problem before seeing it in a profile graph
<oSoMoN> neat, congrats!
<andyrock> hey all
<didrocks> morning andyrock
<duflu> Hi andyrock
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey andyrock willcooke
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<oSoMoN> good morning andyrock, willcooke
<Laney> WHOOPS HI!
<didrocks> hey hey Laney
<seb128> hey Laney
<duflu> Hi Laney
<Laney> hey didrocks seb128 duflu
<Laney> how's it going?????
<Laney> nice man from the water company came this morning while I was getting dressed :(
<Laney> but he gave us a new shower head for free
<willcooke> Laney, a water saving one?  Is it any good?
<Laney> ya
<Laney> i'll tell you tomorrow :P
<Laney> he alleges that you can't tell the difference but it saves mumble litres per shower
 * willcooke rubs chib 
<willcooke> *chin
<seb128> you would think the water company has interest in you using water and wouldn't give away free stuff to help you giving them less money
<duflu> Laney, if unhappy you can often remove the washer from just inside the neck, making it less water saving :)
<Laney> we still have the old one :P
<Laney> seb128: oh, maybe that's why he told me to just leave the tap on all the time!
<seb128> lol
<Laney> it's more convenient to not have to turn it
<seb128> jbicha, hey
<jbicha> good morning
<seb128> jbicha, the trello board is to plan our work, I don't think it's the right place to list issues we consider important in the infra or other places
<jbicha> maybe I should have just mentioned LP: #1745210 in IRC instead?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1745210 in Launchpad itself "Support GNOME GitLab Issues as external bugtracker" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1745210
<seb128> I guess
<seb128> unsure if you saw but it was briefly discussed on #ubuntu-devel
<jbicha> yes, thanks :)
<seb128> np!
<seb128> Laney, do you know what's the status of autopkgtests infra? is that still down due to spectrum/meltdown? or back up but with lot of backlog?
<Laney> second one
<Laney> queue's going down now but it's really long
<seb128> k, well at least it's moving in the right direction :)
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> want an s390x desktop
<seb128> willcooke, fyi the update-notifier/xenial SRU is getting published to udpates/security now
<Laney> it's supppppppppperrrr fast
<willcooke> seb128, thanks.  otp with jibel who said the same thing :)
<seb128> k
<seb128> jibel, you mentioned that the installer slides order was going to change or something around those line the other day?
<jibel> seb128, yes, the keyboard page will move earlier, before the passphrase for encrypted volume IIRC
<seb128> jibel, ok, thanks
<jibel> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/ubiquity/move-keyboard-early
<jibel> which reminds me to update the tests
<jibel> willcooke, filed bug 1745350 about whoopsie ids
<ubot5> bug 1745350 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "whoopsie id is not unique" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1745350
<seb128> jibel, if you start renaming the e.u.c registered bugs to replace ":" by "â" it would make more sense to patch e.u.c to use directly the char you want
<jibel> seb128, I was thinking the same. it's the title e.u.c uses it make sense it uses the same when it creates a report on lp. Also this way line wrapping works and it's easier to read. I'll propose a patch
<seb128> sounds good
<cyphermox> willcooke: looks to me like wvdial is a dead project upstream too.
<lamont> seb128: got a moment?  It would seem that when I took my upgraded-from-prolly-wily laptop from zesty to artful, I lost the gui login screen... nothing on tty7 or 8, last thing is updating UTMP about runlevel change -- I'm hoping to avoid reinstalling, but need a working gui in a few hours..
<lamont> any thoughts/pointers?
<jbicha> didrocks: there's a few desktop universe demotions at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.html
<lamont> jbicha: any chance you've seen my issue or have $CLUE to apply?
<jbicha> I've heard rumors about meltdown/spectre fixes breaking stuff. Try a pre-meltdown kernel?
<lamont> will do.  though that would make me sad and I'd have to smack jdstrand with a trout.
<jbicha> smack Intel please
<lamont> lol
<lamont> and yeah, it's always interesting watching yet another cpu team discover the issues with opportunistic execution and how don't-care bits are not completely don't care
<lamont> jbicha: so what you're saying is that do-release-ugprade to artful and then purge unity, and I should have a working system still?  (modulo kernel hilarity)
<jbicha> cyphermox: btw, have you seen the issue where connecting to certain wifi networks gets something like "search public.intranet" appended to /etc/resolv.conf
<seb128> lamont, is gdm installed/default dm?
<jbicha> cyphermox: and that makes things like sudo really slow until I remove that line
<lamont> seb128: /etc/X11/default-display-manager contains /usr/sbin/gdm3
<lamont> and gdm3 is installed
<seb128> but the dm doesn't start?
<lamont> right
<seb128> anything interesting in the journal?
 * lamont reboots for fresh journal
<seb128> jbicha, I doubt gdm not showing the greater is a meltdown issue btw
<lamont> and then I'll see about kernel
 * lamont will have to run away for a couple hours at around :40
<jbicha> well I heard rumors about dkms troubles, I could be really wrong though :)
 * lamont wonders wtf he has postgres installed on his laptop
<Laney> it's tty1 with gdm btw
<Laney> but if not there, yeah, check journal
<cyphermox> jbicha: what makes no sense, unless your nsswitch.conf is messed up
<cyphermox> in any case, never seen that, sounds like a local network config more than anything
<lamont> seb128: DNS is broken during startup
<jbicha> cyphermox: ok, I'll try filing a bug then. I didn't touch nsswitch.conf
<lamont> seb128: journal shows gdm.service has finished start-up, "... result is done"
<seb128> lamont, and no gdm error in the journal?
<seb128> nor xorg?
<lamont> and ps shows gdm3 with a child gdm-session-worker [pam/gdm-launch-environment]
<seb128> is gnome-shell installed?
<lamont> no X running
<lamont> 3.26.2-0ubuntu0.1
<seb128> could be normal if you are on wayland
<lamont> no output for ps auxf | grep way
<seb128> lamont, try maybe enabling debug in /etc/gdm3/custom.conf reboot and see if the journal log for gdm has more details
<seb128> the wayland compositor is gnome-shell
<seb128> so you should probably ps for gnome-session/gnome-shell
 * lamont is already reboot with debug 
<seb128> can you share/pastebin the journal
<lamont> http://paste.ubuntu.com/26458928/ <-- seb128
<seb128> you have lxc failing to start issues, dunno if that can create problems
<lamont> DNS being broken is because /etc/resovlconf/resolv.conf.d/head is no longer in /run/NetworkMangler/resolv.conf
<seb128> GdmSession: Setting display device: (null)
<seb128> is weird
<seb128> GdmDisplay: Creating greeter for (null) (null)
<lamont> i915 device
<lamont> how soon do you EOD?
 * lamont is happy to tell GdmSession where the device is, given a howto...
<lamont> and I'll be happy to take my time debugging the actual problem tomorrow...
<seb128> EOD is a bit random, depends of how things go here, I might be on and off for a couple and hours and then back for a bit in the evening
<seb128> I'm unsure how to debug that though :/
<willcooke> thx cyphermox
<lamont> the "DNS not working" is because networkmangler refuses to do what I want it to (bind developer means local named, and it's all NO I OWNS YOUR DNS)
<seb128> lamont, you can try to use WaylandEnable=false in the gdm config see if that makes a difference
 * lamont purges lxc to remove that factor from things
<lamont> rebooting without wayland
<GunnarHj> Hi jbicha! Problem with autopkgtest of libpinyin. When testing libpinyin, for some reason it also tests libzhuyin and fails when doing so.
<GunnarHj> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#libpinyin
<GunnarHj> Why does it care about libzhuyin (which we should probably drop from the archive anyway)? Is there some kind of ambiguity in debian/control?
<GunnarHj> https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-ime/libpinyin.git/tree/debian/control?h=debian/experimental
<didrocks> jbicha: I wonder about gnome-orca in universe. people upgrading having main only won't have the transitionâ¦
<jbicha> didrocks: ubuntu-desktop recommends 'orca' but we can explicitly seed it until after 18.04 if you want
<jbicha> GunnarHj: it sounds like you also need to rebuild ibus/fcitx-zhuyin then
<didrocks> jbicha: yeah, I'm thinking about people who removed the recommends, true that we try to add it before dist-upgrade
<lamont> http://paste.ubuntu.com/26458989/ <-- seb128
<didrocks> jbicha: as you wish, I don't have strong opinons
<jbicha> didrocks: it sounds like these people really want to break things ;)
<didrocks> jbicha: true enough to me, let's demote it thus
<jbicha> GunnarHj: but if you need an autopkgtest ignored, present your reason at #ubuntu-release
<lamont> seb128: ps has no "gnome" in the output, fwiw
<jbicha> GunnarHj: oh that's odd, reverse-depends says ibus-zhuyin depends on libzhuyin7 but it doesn't look like it really does :|
<jbicha> "This traditional Chinese zhuyin input method is designed for old school users"
<lamont> jbicha: haha
<lamont> http://paste.ubuntu.com/26459025/ <-- now with no psql noise
<GunnarHj> jbicha: I have realized that ibus-libzhuyin and fcitx-libzhuyin should probably be built with libzhuyin13. Will try that in PPA.
<lamont> Jan 25 08:35:30 rover3 gdm3[2217]: GdmSession: Setting display device: (null)
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Would that keep autopkgtest's hands from libzhuyin?
<jbicha> ibus-libzhuyin might not need to be rebuilt, it would be cool if somebody could test whether those 2 still work with the new version
<jbicha> GunnarHj: I don't think so
<GunnarHj> jbicha: So why is libzhuyin tested?
<Laney> It seems to take over libzhuyin.
<lamont> jbicha: seb128: pre-Spectre kernel (4.13.0-25.29) still gets Setting display device: (null)
<lamont> with that, afk for a couple hours.  will hope to find clue in scrollback
<GunnarHj> Laney: "Take over"? How/why?
<Laney> Look at the packages it produces.
<Laney>  libzhuyin-dev: Development files for zhuyin input method library
<Laney> probably something to do with it
<tkamppeter> seb128, thanks for accepting. I have now added some forgotten build dependencies and all is working.
<Laney> I guess if the intention is to remove this package then it doesn't matter
 * Laney assumes syncing from experimental was a good thing to do here ...
<GunnarHj> Laney: Right.. I'll do some more digging. (Syncing from experimental seemed to be a good idea at the time. ;) )
<seb128> tkamppeter, good!
<seb128> lamont, I don't really know, you can try reinstalling lightdm instead of gdm see how that works
<amano2> didrocks, are you going to do the bubblewrap MIR for bionic as well?
<didrocks> amano2: hum, is it filed as a MIR? I didn't know we wanted to seed it
<didrocks> or needed
<amano2> It is filed and you were supposed to MIR it
<amano2> According to the trello card
<amano2> Evince and some others are patched to not use it now
<amano2> But it would be an additional security layer.
<didrocks> amano2: ah, got trapped to not have been assigned to it: https://trello.com/c/ZMkHCrQY/20-bubblewrap-mir
<didrocks> amano2: assigned myself and added on my list
<seb128> amano2, didrocks, that needs a security team review first
<didrocks> seb128: well, I'll do the normal copyright/packaging review
<didrocks> and then, ask security, as usual
<amano2> That slipped already for artful, sadly
<seb128> amano2, yeah, they are busy and we don't have an high need of that one in the default install atm
<amano2> Now we have to patch the packages to be more insecure by default
<didrocks> well, not more insecure than it used to be, in all fairness :)
<seb128> overstating issues never helps to resolve them
<jbicha> didrocks: did you want to put the brotli/woff2 MIRs on your list too? LP: #1742743
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1742743 in woff2 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] woff2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1742743
<seb128> amano2, what is that impressive list of packages that is less secure?
<didrocks> jbicha: are you really asking for "want"? ;)
<seb128> amano2, evince git has no mention of bubblewrap neither in NEWS nor configure.ac nor commit logs
<jbicha> didrocks: please :)
<amano2> Well probably not that impressive ;)
<seb128> amano2, also evince doesn't seem to be patched or to use bubblewrap, unsure where you saw that
<_amano> Nautilus, evince and maybe some others
<_amano> I can look that u
<_amano> P
<jbicha> _amano: my understanding is that it's just the gnome-desktop3 library that is affected
<jbicha> (which is stated in the MIR bug)
<seb128> _amano, where is the evince code you mention?
<didrocks> jbicha: mind trello-carding it, add it to backlog and assign it to me, please?
<didrocks> thx!
<_amano> http://www.hadess.net/2017/07/security-for-security-gods-sandboxing.html?m=1
<amano2> Gdk-pixbuf seems sandboxed
<amano2> Happy weekend, desktoppers ;)
<amano2> Tomorrow is already Happy Friday :)
<alan_g> willcooke, we can dispense with gtk-mir in bionic
<seb128> alan_g, you already said that to him some time ago but thanks for confirming :)
<alan_g> seb128, no. Two weeks ago I said it would come true in "a couple of weeks"
<seb128> alan_g, ah ok, well we translated that to "we can do it", but thanks for coming back confirming we can :)
 * alan_g grins: I try to ensure promises and deliveries line up.
<seb128> :)
<willcooke> :)
<lamont> seb128: just changing /etc/X11/default-display-manager to lightdm didn't kill of gdm3...
<lamont> which is to say, halp how make computar werk?
<sil2100> seb128: hey! I built and uploaded initial normal and base bionic language-packs - I only did a quick check of the pl and en ones, but yeah, looked 'okayish'
<sil2100> seb128: I'll just have to check if all got uploaded that should, since last time I noticed some failed during the source-build+upload stage
<sil2100> seb128: since right now I need to get back to my SRU shift I'll re-check those tomorrow (since most of them didn't build yet even)
<lamont> seb128: \o/  Thanks for the help.  I would like to work with someone at some point (not today) on figuring out why gdm3 hates it and lightdm loves it.
<oSoMoN> good night all
<jbicha> lamont: I do sudo dpkg-reconfigure lightdm to switch login screens, then reboot
<willcooke> night all o/
<lamont> jbicha: ta.  In other news, with bionic as of 2018-01-17 16:42:42 UTC, and clear back to artful, X will occasionally go into the most wonderfully strange failure mode.  Mouse moves, but focus is gone into lala land, and buttons and keys are not processed in any perceptible way.
<lamont> NVIDIA Corporation GM107 [GeForce GTX 750 Ti] (rev a2) with nouveau driver
<lamont> note also that Wayland hates that card with a fiery passion (maybe), gdm3 certainly does.  So that machine is using lightdm since the change to gdm3 in artful.  I suppose I could check on that in the bionic world... just not today.
<gQuigs> lamont: you don't have both lightdm and gdm installed at the same time do you?  I've found issues with that in the past
<lamont> gQuigs: I do, but it's easy to switch, at least until gdm3 upgrades and switches it and I have to undo it (maybe) -- tever
<gQuigs> lamont: purge one completely and see if things improve
<lamont> the X lockup is one of those frustrating "all I've figured out to fix it is 'hit the reset button'" kind of things
<lamont> gQuigs: I reinstalled gdm3 only because ubuntu-desktop depends on it.  not interested in removing it, and it's clearly orthogonal to X not liking life at random times.
<sarnold> lamont: the 'equivs' package can apparently fake up deps
<gQuigs> lamont: I wouldn't be so positive about the clearly orthogonal part, try purging lightdm then..
<lamont> gQuigs: well, we know that gdm gets completely lost.
<lamont> but yeah, today's pain is sorted "it works".  Tomorrow or later is the "let's skip productivity in the name of debuging bionic"
<lamont> because of primary desktop
<gQuigs> I've found previously that their ability to get lost is much higher when there are 2 dm installed, even if one is supposedly disabled
<GunnarHj> jbicha: I failed to build ibus-libzhuyin and fcitx-zhuyin with the higher version of libzhuyin-dev (there seems to be more into it). So, to not break those input methods (for the case they work properly; I'm not sure of that) one idea is to exclude the libzhuyin-dev and libzhuyin13 binaries when building libpinyin. I'm about to test that in the PPA.
<GunnarHj> https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/ubuntu/ibus-libpinyin/+packages
<GunnarHj> Does that make sense to you?
<jbicha> GunnarHj: yes I think we could do that temporarily. Could you ask Debian why it's still in experimental and if they know about those rebuild problems too?
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Yes, I'll ask someone about that.
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-01-26
<robert_ancell> jbicha, could you do a snapd-glib release into Debian (1.32)
<jbicha> done
<robert_ancell> jbicha, thanks!
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> jbicha, bug 1741027 seems like the vino update/new screen sharing u-c-c panel transition was buggy
<ubot5> bug 1741027 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "screen sharing panels abort using an unexistant vino gsettings key" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1741027
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey willcooke
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<Laney> hey ho
<didrocks> ho ho ho Laney
<seb128> hey Laney
<Laney> hey didrocks hey seb128, happy friday to you
<seb128> happy friday indeed!
<didrocks> f r i d a y !
 * didrocks is fried by the week :p
<didrocks> so completely on topic!
<Laney> :(
<Laney> why fried?
<Laney> (does it mean you are tasty now?)
<didrocks> too many things to prepare work and extra-work this week. Busy week in a nutshell :)
<didrocks> tasty, I'm not sure, fat, yesâ¦ :)
<willcooke> oSoMoN, looks like something might be happening with the Cr. patches for vaapi at last
<willcooke> https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/532294
<oSoMoN> willcooke, yes, IÂ saw that yesterday, that's potentially good news
<oSoMoN> I'll rebuild my test PPA with the updated patches on top of the latest dev branch
<willcooke> nice
<seb128> jibel, when you were testing the g-s on xenial issue you also said you were able to trigger the gwakeup issue, did you manage to get debug info about that one?
<jibel> seb128, no, you still need it? I could only reproduce on not fully up to date systems
<jibel> I can do it if you want
<seb128> jibel, if it's fixed after updating there is no need to I guess, https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/70c23d0f4e2be24b26672427d4218dc8f0823597 seems to suggest it got lot of reports on old versions and almost none on updated ones, so either nobody has the update or it got resolved
<seb128> jibel, let see how things are looking once more users are upgradeds if the update-notifier change has the wanted impact
<jibel> seb128, I monitoring this crash for a week or 2, we'll see if the number of reports drops or not. Then I'll spend time on reproducing the issue if it is still happening on newer version
<jibel> + 'm
<seb128> sounds good
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, I think didrocks meant that desktop-bugs should be subscribed to those packages which I'm adding now
<didrocks> seb128: apparently, it's not dekstop-bugs only
<seb128> didrocks, ?
<didrocks> see the discussion we had with Steve
<seb128> where/when?
<didrocks> weeks ago on -devel
 * didrocks looks
<seb128> well there is an old argument desktop-packages vs desktop-bugs
<seb128> if that's what you refear to
<seb128> but nothing concerning canonical-desktop iirc
<didrocks> 2018-01-08 17:25:28slangasekdidrocks: the expected subscriber for MIRs is desktop-packages
<didrocks> yep, I wasn't sure about the team name
<didrocks> so, I guess sub desktop-packages
<seb128> right, the same old argument -packages vs -bugs
<seb128> I can do if you prefer, I'm not interested in having that argument again :p
<didrocks> yeah, same here, just subscribe bothâ¦ :p
<seb128> done
<didrocks> thx
<Trevinho> seb128: oh, how many groups are there? :-)
<didrocks> too many
<didrocks> that's the answer :)
<seb128> Trevinho, desktop-bugs which we think is right and desktop-packages that some people like to argue about
<jibel> out of curiosity, what's the difference between -bugs and -packages?
<seb128> so let's subscribe both and avoid entering another argument
<Trevinho> seb128: so, how subscribe to those? are they groups or need to add as other affected?
<didrocks> -packages is the list used for release tracking IIRC
<seb128> Trevinho, I did it
<Trevinho> seb128: I can't see those in the subscrivers list
<Trevinho> I mean in the may be notified
<seb128> Trevinho, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fprintd
<seb128> "Subscribers
<seb128> To all bugs in fprintd in Ubuntu:
<seb128>     Desktop Packages
<seb128> "
<seb128> on the top right
<didrocks> jibel: https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2018/01/08/%23ubuntu-devel.html#t16:24 for context
<seb128> jibel, unsure what the difference is, desktop-bugs is the oldest and the one we used historically, desktop-packages was created by pedro to do some qa reports later and the MIR team decided that was the one to use (wrongly imho)
<seb128> now we have both for sort of the same purpose but not exactly
<didrocks> it's weird to see llvm-toolchain-* being in desktop-packages
<Trevinho> seb128: ah, ok so wass per peroject
<seb128> desktop-packages is boggus
<Laney> I was going to move one over
<Trevinho> project... Can't type today
<seb128> imho
<Laney> doesn't really matter to me which way we do that
<didrocks> seb128: not all the MIR team, that wasn't discussed in any MIR team meeting
<Laney> presume some things will need to be updated either way
<Laney> reports or what have you
<seb128> right
<seb128> well it's boggus and annoying to fix and nobody seems interested/having enough of a clue to sort it out
<seb128> so we are likely going to keep having 2 lists not in sync with people disagreeing on which one is the correct one
<seb128> it's not like those lists were really useful or used anyway
<Laney> just seems to be causing friction every now and again
<Laney> I'll get to it at some point :-)
 * Laney adds a card if there isn't one already
<seb128> the problem is that we don't know what teams are used were
<seb128> so I guess job 1 would be to investigate all reports/services/scripts to see what is being used were
<seb128> but that's a bit tedious and likely to be miss some
<Laney> ok, well if you don't think I should work on it then delete the card or whatever
<seb128> oh, no, if you feel like figuring those details out feel free
<seb128> it would be clearner to only have one team
<jibel> create a third team and subscribe it to the 2 other teams :P
<jibel> desktop-bugs-and-packages
<jibel> but then there will be discussion whether it should be bugs-and-packages or packages-and-bugs ...
<Laney> I wrote a script that mails you a turd if you even think about the wrong one
<GunnarHj> Hi Laney, I've proposed a new upload of libpinyin:
<GunnarHj> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus-libpinyin/+bug/1735362/comments/19
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1735362 in ibus-libpinyin (Ubuntu) "Replace ibus-sunpinyin with ibus-libpinyin" [Medium,In progress]
<GunnarHj> Do you think that will eliminate the autopkgtest confusion?
<GunnarHj> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/bionic/update_excuses.html#libpinyin
<Laney> hey GunnarHj
<Laney> depends on if your new version breaks libzhuyin or not :-)
<Laney> you can probably install your new package in a container and run the libzhuyin tests yourself to see
<GunnarHj> Laney: With the new version all binaries built by libpinyin and libzhuyin can co-exist. (I don't know how to perform the tests.)
<Laney> GunnarHj: argh sorry I forgot to reply to you - http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/auto-pkg-test.html#executing-the-test
<Laney> the first example except you can give it your .deb files after the name of the source package to test
<Laney> libzhuyin *.deb -- qemu ...
<Laney> then it'll use those .debs to satisfy deps
<jbicha> didrocks: what happened with GNOME bug 786496 ?
<ubot5> Gnome bug 786496 in general "Replace custom override schema with per-desktop override" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=786496
<didrocks> jbicha: didn't hear back from desrt since
<didrocks> and it seems no other glib maintainer is picking it up
<jbicha> I guess I can email her and askâ¦
<didrocks> feel free :)
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, good morning! I have an upload of libreoffice ready, would you mind uploading it on my behalf? https://people.canonical.com/~osomon/libreoffice-5.4.4/
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, happy to
<oSoMoN> thanks kenvandine
<willcooke> jibel, which is the preferred tag for generic wayland bugs, wayland-session or wayland?
<Laney> weeee, the nm captive portal toggle in g-c-c just got committed
<willcooke> Laney, nice!
<jbicha> willcooke: 'wayland', 'wayland-session' is automatically for every apport-assisted bug filed from Wayland
<willcooke> jbicha, ta
<jbicha> yay, Network Connectivity privacy switch just landed in gnome-control-center git
<Laney> deja vu
<GunnarHj> jbicha: If you have a minute (or two), it would be great if you could sponsor this:
<GunnarHj> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus-libpinyin/+bug/1735362/comments/19
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1735362 in ibus-libpinyin (Ubuntu) "Replace ibus-sunpinyin with ibus-libpinyin" [Medium,In progress]
<lyr[m]> Hello
<lyr[m]> Anyone can tell me the exact genisoimage command to make a custom ubuntu iso ?
<lyr[m]> (I already have my custom ks.cfg, extracted official iso content & so on)
<amano> since we are going to rename the session names again: would "Ubuntu (compatiblity mode)" vs. Ubuntu (extended security mode)" something to consider instead of "Ubuntu on Xorg" vs "Ubuntu on Wayland". More descriptive for less tech savy persons?
<amano> just for discussion if nobody has brought that up before.
<mdeslaur> extended security?
 * mdeslaur doesn't like that
<amano> hasn't to be that term of course ;)
<mdeslaur> how about "Ubuntu (flickering firefox experience)" ;)
<amano> LOL ;)
<seb128> amano, if you find descriptions that make sense why not
<seb128> amano, those you suggested might be inacurrate/misleading though
<seb128> I expect it's going to be difficult to find wording that has consensus
<amano> (altough the coming Firefox wayland might fix some Firfox problems on xwayland)
<mdeslaur> Ubuntu vs. Ubuntu (Wayland preview)
<jbicha> Old School!
<amano> ;) that keeps people knowing about the "Wayand" term
<amano> ...having to know...
<mdeslaur> seems to me the only people interested in testing it would be specifically the people who want to try wayland
<jbicha> amano: I think that's a good thing. We do want people to be able to Google for any issues they have with it
<amano> it would be more descriptive than just "on Wayland"
<amano> so people know that it is some kind of tech preview
<mdeslaur> personally, I don't even think it makes sense to ship it visible by default...why would my dad want that? at least the word "preview" would indicate it's not something they should normally use
<mdeslaur> my 2c
<gQuigs> will it be a tech preview or will it be a supportable path people an use?
<gQuigs> can use
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, libreoffice ftbfs
<kenvandine> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:5.4.4-0ubuntu2
<jbicha> gQuigs: can't it be both? :)
<amano> Either way. Maybe worth discussing. It was just an idea when reading WIll's announcement
<gQuigs> jbicha: to some extent sure, just wondering if we should recommend it to those who want slightly more confined apps or not
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, I hate this, it was building fine against proposed yesterday :/
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, and it's building fine on all other arches, what's up with amd64?
<jbicha> gQuigs: my opinion is that it's fine to recommend it to people who understand what isn't supported (apps like synaptic; remote desktop; most screen capture apps; NVIDIA)
<jbicha> oSoMoN: I don't think it's building fine on other arches, it didn't the first time
<jbicha> but LO 6 is next week any way, rigth?
<oSoMoN> ah, so it's been retried?
<jbicha> oSoMoN: oops, I thought you were looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:5.4.3-0ubuntu2
<oSoMoN> yeah LO 6 is next week but I'll need 5.4.4 in bionic to SRU it to artful
<seb128> oSoMoN, technically you need uploaded, whcih you did now
<seb128> oSoMoN, it's to make sure it's not forgotten/mssing from the new serie
<seb128> oSoMoN, now it's in the proposed pocket and just needs fixing/iterating, but by itself that should be enough for the SRU team
<seb128> jbicha, hey, did you see that the vino/u-c-c changes are buggy?
<jbicha> seb128: yes, I'm trying to ping the Unity guys (Khurshid I guess) about that
<seb128> technically you are the one who approved the merge and did the sync :p
<seb128> but yeah, if they can/want fix it that works as well
<jbicha> when I uploaded, I tested that it built and that it ran, I didn't test if it worked :|
<jbicha> I probably ran it with old vino installed so it wouldn't have crashed then
<seb128> indeed
<ricotz> oSoMoN, debhelper dh_scour problem?
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<jbicha> chrisccoulson: could you push Firefox 58 to bionic too?
<oSoMoN> seb128, ah, good to know that technically that's enough
<oSoMoN> hey ricotz
<oSoMoN> that doesn't seem related to dh_scour
<oSoMoN> configure: WARNING: glm/glm.hpp: present but cannot be compiled
<ricotz> ok, haven't looked at it, firefox failed on bionic-proposed with missing dh_scour error.
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, would you mind retrying https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:5.4.4-0ubuntu2/+build/14277897 , just to make sure it's not transient?
<oSoMoN> or was it retried already?
<seb128> I don't think it was, I just did
<oSoMoN> thanks seb128
 * oSoMoN crosses fingers
<seb128> yw
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, please see PM
<seb128> ricotz, it's a weird habit to ping people on public channels to tell them to see private message, that's a content which is of no use to the channel and probably don't make people you ping notice more the direct msg
<seb128> ricotz, also I said that in the past but you can also ask your questions directly here, maybe it's useful to others as well
<ricotz> seb128, I disagree, imo a private message is more discoverable that way (in my client)
<ricotz> seb128, I would ask a question here if it weren't so specific
<seb128> hum, k, I overlooked that people might use a boggus IRC lient
<ricotz> seb128, do you have an opinion on changes in the distribution.ini of firefox?
<seb128> ricotz, I don't personnally :)
<seb128> oSoMoN, retry failed the same way
<oSoMoN> bleh
<ricotz> ok, so this isn't really a question for the channel imo ;)
<ricotz> oSoMoN, did you notice this? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1432781
<ubot5> Mozilla bug 1432781 in Release Automation "Snap 59.0b3 is not localized anymore" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<oSoMoN> doko, libreoffice 5.4.4 (with the libpoppler version patch) built fine yesterday against bionic-proposed, and now FTBFS again
<oSoMoN> could it be caused by the gcc 7 update?
<oSoMoN> ricotz, yes, I actually initially reported the issue
<oSoMoN> and Johan filed the bug
<ricotz> oSoMoN, good :)
<jbicha> mdeslaur: btw, I think we can remove gksu from bionic once someone fixes mythtv LP: #1740618
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1740618 in umit (Ubuntu) "Remove unmaintained gksu reverse dependencies" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1740618
<mdeslaur> why, don't people use that manually?
<jbicha> we'll get some hate mail for it
<jbicha> it's unmaintained and deprecated and will be removed from Debian completely really soon
<mdeslaur> we'd remove most of universe if that's the criteria for removing stuff ;)
<jbicha> (I do think we should consider removing all the old stuff that isn't in Debianâ¦)
<jbicha> gksu was useless with Ubuntu's Wayland session and is not the recommended way of doing things even for users
<jbicha> the gvfs admin:/// support works well (although it's not easily discoverable, although gksu isn't discoverable either)
<mdeslaur> but it's still useful for people running xorg...and it's in universe...besides upsetting people who use it, I don't see why it would get removed
<jbicha> why does anyone need to use gksu?
<mdeslaur> why does anyone need to use epiphany?
 * mdeslaur shrugs
<gQuigs> but seriously, if I really want to run nautilus with root I can do sudo nautilus..  (but don't do that!)
<gQuigs> what does gksu give people that they would want to complain about?
<gQuigs> err. complain if it's removed that sudo wouldn't?
<mdeslaur> I know of people who use it to ask for a password in a graphical way to be able to run a script with elevated privileges
<mdeslaur> I really don't care, I just don't see the point of removing stuff from universe
<gQuigs> I wonder how hard it is do what systemctl does.. guessing that's policykit...
<gQuigs> cleaner archive with less old outdated software
<gQuigs> but I thought if a package has no Ubuntu changes it was autoremoved from the Ubuntu archive.. guess I'm mistaken
<jbicha> gQuigs: gksu does have an ubuntu1 changelog. And that semi-autoremoval only happens for removals from unstable with no rdepends so it doesn't help here
<gQuigs> jbicha: that makes sense, but what about a package like aptoncd with no rdpends at all?  seems a lot of these leaf packages should have already disappeared
<jbicha> I think the "semi" is important here ;)
<gQuigs> gotcha :)
<s10gopal> battery drain when laptop is off ,acip relater bug #ubuntu users said
<Laney> I find myself listening to drum n bass
<oSoMoN> week-end is here, see you all on Monday
<Laney> bye oSoMoN!
<Laney> ah yay, just got a systemd timer fired alarm in gnome-clocks to work
<Laney> happy end to the week
<Laney> laters potaters
<willcooke> night all
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, hey, are you still around?
<oSoMoN> Iâve prepared a patched glm that should fix the libreoffice FTBFS, all it needs is an uploader: https://people.canonical.com/~osomon/glm/
<oSoMoN> (I'll forward to debian on Monday, just wanted to get the thing unblocked asap)
<oSoMoN> and Iâve attached the corresponding debdiff to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glm/+bug/1745685
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1745685 in glm (Ubuntu) "FTBFS with gcc 7.3.0-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,New]
<oSoMoN> with that, I'm off to bed :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-01-21
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> good afternoon duflu, had a good week-end?
<duflu> oSoMoN, it was a blur. My birthweek celebrations concluded :)
<duflu> You oSoMoN/
<duflu> ?
<oSoMoN> yeah, I relaxed, saw friends and played LEGO with my daughter, all good :)
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<oSoMoN> Ã§a va?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, week-end difficile pour les oreilles, mais Ã§a passe un peu mieux lÃ 
<didrocks> et toi ?
<didrocks> apparement, partie de LEGO ;)
<oSoMoN> oui, on a construit https://www.lego.com/en-us/mindstorms/build-a-robot/track3r :)
<oSoMoN> pas encore attaquÃ© la partie programmation, mais on sâest dÃ©jÃ  bien amusÃ©s Ã  lâassemblage et avec la tÃ©lÃ©commande infrarouge
<didrocks> hÃ©hÃ© ;)
<didrocks> Ã§a semble sympa
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN! en forme? bon w.e?
<oSoMoN> oui, super week-end bien reposant, et toi?
<seb128> j'me suis bloquÃ© le dos jeudi et c'Ã©tait un peu pÃ©nible mais sinon w.e tranquille
<Laney> moin
<didrocks> hey seb128, Laney
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<Laney> hey didrocks oSoMoN
<Laney> you well?
<oSoMoN> seb128, aÃ¯e, Ã§a sâest dÃ©bloquÃ© depuis?
<Laney> omg pgp encrypted irc
<oSoMoN> all good on this side of the Pyrenees
<Laney> some winter weather finally arrived here
<willcooke> morning all
 * Laney nods willcooke 
<Laney> ok journey home?
<willcooke> yeah fine
<willcooke> got an exit row seat
<Laney> small victories
<willcooke> people up the back had rows to them selves
<jamesh> we finally got the eastern states' heat wave over the weekend
<jamesh> 40 max, 20 min
<Laney> don't you think crossing the equator is lame?
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<Laney> i was expecting something cool to happen
<Laney> like fireworks
 * Laney spritzes jamesh 
<Laney> was reading about that heatwave, sounds pretty brutal
<jamesh> It's been pretty mild up to now in Perth
<seb128> hey Laney didrocks willcooke
<seb128> oSoMoN, oui, Ã§a va mieux depuis hier
<Nafallo> morning
<duflu> Morning Laney. Yeah as James alludes it is actually cooler than usual here. Just not for most of the continent
<duflu> Well, has been many days
<oSoMoN> morning willcooke, Nafallo
<jamesh> http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/IDCJDW6111.latest.shtml <- we've mostly been looking at low 30s or high 20s
<duflu> The heatwave when from NW to SE, but we are SW
<duflu> Morning Nafallo
<duflu> Bah, anything I say will be subjective and out of date. This is happier news though jamesh, https://www.watercorporation.com.au/water-supply/rainfall-and-dams/dam-levels
<Trevinho> morning!
<duflu> Hi Trevinho
<Laney> hey Trevinho, how's it going?
<Trevinho> ah hey duflu and Laney...
<Trevinho> all good, you?
<Laney> pretty sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
<Trevinho> don't know if already asked, but anyone could publish this when has a second https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3596 (maybe would be better to do the direct upload as SRU people doesn't like ppa syncs)
<seb128> Trevinho, do you know why the billeto diffs are empty recently (it is at least in this one and one other of the recent landing I landed for you)
<Trevinho> nope, I've noticed that too though
<Trevinho> sil2100: do you know that ^
<Trevinho> ?
<Trevinho> hi seb128 btw :)
<seb128> hey trevinho :)
<seb128> I can upload that SRU btw
<seb128> we need it for bionic as well btw (unsure if that was already handled)
<Trevinho> seb128: as far I know bionic wasn't affected.
<seb128> trevinho, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock/+bug/1769383 was reported on bionic though and that's were most comments are coming from?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1769383 in gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Ubuntu dock/launcher is shown on the lock screen" [High,In progress]
<seb128> e.G https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock/+bug/1812407
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1769383 in gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock (Ubuntu Cosmic) "duplicate for #1812407 Ubuntu dock/launcher is shown on the lock screen" [High,In progress]
<seb128> Trevinho, SRU uploaded "old school diff" way so the queue has a proper diff to review and not a sync to make the SRU team more likely to review
<Trevinho> seb128: thanks
<seb128> np
<Trevinho> seb128: ah ok I had a src ready for that too
<seb128> k, please get it ready for sponsoring then :)
<seb128> it's on the .2 importants bugs list
<Trevinho> ah I had it ready but without that fix, then let me include it
<Trevinho> 5 minutes..
<seb128> k
<seb128> Trevinho, I'm going for early lunch now so take your time, I look at the bionic one once I'm back
<sil2100> Trevinho: uh oh, didn't know about this
<sil2100> Let me investigate
<Trevinho> seb128: I'm done if you want
<seb128> trevinho, k, url? :)
<Trevinho> seb128: https://cloud.trevi.me/index.php/s/WZ7YAspt3wWDbJN
<willcooke> Trevinho, oops.  I just approved your targeting for bionic for #1809129
<willcooke> I dont think I should have been so hasty
<willcooke> It's a change in UX, and so I think we should talk about it some more
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock/+bug/1809129
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1809129 in gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock (Ubuntu Bionic) "Window previews have inconsistent ordering" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> Do we have any previous examples of where we made such a change?  FWIR, such things are generally not the done thing
<Trevinho> willcooke: well, such UX changes have been done in the past in SRUs, until they don't really change text, or completely the way of acting, isn't it?
<Trevinho> I mean in unity at least we were doing changes bigger than this in SRUs :)
<willcooke> I think it might lead to confusion if people have learned the current way of doing it.
<Trevinho> as I think it's not really changing any way of using the tool, just tuning a bit
<willcooke> That said, personally, I think the new way is better
<Trevinho> well, they will be confused anyway on next one
<Trevinho> next LTS I mean
<Trevinho> but honestly, I don't think it's something you do repeadly in a way that breaks any muscle memory
<willcooke> sure, but that's a new version.  I think it's fine to expect things to be done differently in a new release, espeically when it's been that way for a couple of releases
<Trevinho> I'd see if it was something like alt-tab behavior change, but...
<willcooke> @ muscle memory, I disagree
<willcooke> I have trained myself a bit
<willcooke> and it took some getting used to
<willcooke> I'll speak to mpt and see if he has any views
<Trevinho> ok, let me know
<willcooke> Trevinho, I'll cc you on the mail
<andyrock> morning all!
<Laney> willcooke: also accepting nominations like that means we end up with orpaned entries on -tracking - we had a case of that last week too (not sure if that was you mind)
 * Laney ð process
<willcooke> Laney, yeah, I didnt mean to click that
<Laney> but yes, that kind of behaviour change is worth discussing more imho
<Laney> think seb128 said that last time this one came up
<willcooke> Laney, can I undo that?
<Laney> there's a delete button but Incomplete might be ok too
<willcooke> Can I just remove the Bionic target?
<Laney> guess Trevinho can be assigned anyway :P
<willcooke> I'd rather get back to the state where it was just nominated
<willcooke> or waiting for approval or whatever it was
<Laney> not sure you can re-nominate
<Laney> try it?
<Laney> or remove + incoming
<Trevinho> willcooke: I've done that
<Trevinho> removed + requested again
<willcooke> Trevinho, nice one, thanks!
<willcooke> sorry about that
<willcooke> Trevinho, I've emailed mpt
<willcooke> lets see what he says
<willcooke> And even then, I think it's worth talking about a bit more with interested parties
<willcooke> Trevinho, do you feel strongly that it should go in?
<Trevinho> I've not that strong opinion, I've just added it since it was something I thought it was quite required
<Trevinho> and didn't look like a big UX change to me not to be blocked
<seb128> willcooke, trevinho, up to the SRU, I think behaviour changes in a SRU are an issue because it confuses some users and part of our corporate users expect stability/not having to deal with confused staff on a stable product, but that one is minor so could be ok
<seb128> Trevinho, "next LTS" is a milestone where e.g corporate IT departement expect to have to do some training or such so changes are ok
<Trevinho> yeah, sure, as said I would consider this such change quite minor, but...
<Trevinho> not really strong opinioned on it
<willcooke> seb128, I agree with you.  I'll let you know what mpt thinks.  And then I think we have enough input to make a decision
 * willcooke -> lunch
<marcustomlinson> willcooke, kenvandine: welcome back to winter :P
<willcooke> hi marcustomlinson
<jbicha> seb128: hi, could you demote totem-plugin-gromit and totem-plugin-zeitgeist to disco-proposed/universe. They are new binary packages and should let us kick zeitgeist out of main once it migrates out of proposed
<seb128> jbicha, hey, sure, btw we have http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.html so no need to manually nag people about those binary demotions
<seb128> (unless it's urgent for some reason, but that doesn't seem the case here)
<jbicha> ok, I guess it shows up on the update_excuses_by_team page which we do look at regularly too :)
<seb128> right
<tomreyn> is there any situation where, when using do-release-upgrade for 16.04 -> 18.04, xserver-xorg was installed initially, but you end up with xwayland? it is possible that no *ubuntu-desktop package was installed.
<seb128> Trevinho, andyrock, we got some report on bionic from the keyboard layout indicator showing empty (no layout label), the warnings in those reports look like https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/merge_requests/187 ... could be that one in 3.28/the coming SRU?
<gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 187 in gnome-shell "keyboard: defer position-changed till we have a rect" [Merged]
<Trevinho> seb128: I think I'm affected right now https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/n2Ku4dAD/image.png
<seb128> right :)
<seb128> trevinho, do you have those warning in your journal?
<seb128> JS ERROR: Exception in callback for signal: position-changed: TypeError: this._rect is undefined
<Trevinho> and... Ok, I can indeed backport it
<Trevinho> let me check
<Trevinho> mh, no
<seb128> :(
<seb128> well in any case that commit seems right/to make sense
<Trevinho> the commit does, but don't know it will fix that specific thing yet
<Trevinho> I mean I can backport it, but if then it doesn't fix that specific bug we'll not endup in getting verifications...
<Trevinho> also because here it happens after some time
<Trevinho> and... an alt+f2 fixes it :/
<Trevinho> alt+f2 -> r
<tomreyn> seb128: i've had this in my journal until i removed one of the keyboard locales (had english + german, now only german), which causes the locale chooser to no longer show on the panel. while i had both locales available, the chooser did show up correctly on the panel, though. I.e. i don't think this error is indicative of the current locale not showing oin the panel.
<seb128> tomreyn, ok, thanks
<seb128> Trevinho, right, well we can make the SRU verification to be what is the bug description upstream, "using doubleclick on titlebar of any window to maximize/minimize, check if there is a warning in the log"
<seb128> if that's enough to trigger the warning
<seb128> I need to reinstall bionic, I upgraded my main partition to disco and my test laptop is on cosmic
<seb128> Laney, hey, is it useful to debug/report upstream glib 2.59 issues at this point or is there known problems with that version which it's better to wait to get fixed before wasting time investigating things that a known/being handled upstream already?
<Laney> seb128: there's a few fixes upstream already, like some vala thing that ricot_z mentioned
<Laney> if you want to try with a master build (e.g. jhbuild), do so, otherwise I'd wait until .1
<seb128> Laney, I guess I'm going to wait for .1 if that's not in too long
<seb128> Laney, reported https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/glib/issues/1659 anyway, they can close if it it's fixed
<gitbot> GNOME issue 1659 in glib "[2.59] gnome-keyring pkcs11/secret-store/test-secret-item.c test fails since update" [Opened]
<Laney> k
<seb128> deja-dup also fails to build
<seb128> but that's vala so maybe it's the ricot_z issue
<ricotz> seb128, Laney, the vala issue with glib 2.59.0 is a runtime problem concerning an GTask ABI change
<seb128> ricotz, well, the deja-dup tests timeout for some reason
<seb128> could be it
<Laney> might want to delete this version from proposed
<Laney> seems like it sucks a bit
<ricotz> seb128, ah, ok, I thought it literally fails to build
<ricotz> I/it
<seb128> the package build fails on failing tests
<seb128> Laney, yeah, I was syncing the same, I've at least 2 packages failing to build due to it and there is a stack of unhappy autopkgtests
<seb128> might be good to investigate/upstream some of the issues first though
<Laney> probably be more productive to do that with a more recent version
<andyrock> seb128: Trevinho: I reproduce the bug too
<andyrock> I've the following in the journal
<seb128> Laney, k, should I delete it then and we try again once we get .1?
<andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/8UlAgY0c/
<andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/WzS5d3hm/
<seb128> andyrock, that warning seems like https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/414
<Laney> seb128: if you think that's a sensible thing to do
<gitbot> GNOME issue 414 in gnome-shell "keyboard: _currentWindow can be null in FocusTracker" [Closed]
<Laney> I mean might be worth trying those builds in a ppa without proposed
<Laney> ... if they are failing for some other reason ...
<seb128> well, I tried locally after downgrading glib and they work
<seb128> and upgrading they fail
<Laney> k, well if you're happy
<seb128> yeah, let's do that
<seb128> thx Laney
<Laney> I'll try gnome-keyring in jhbuild, that one should be easy enough
<seb128> thx
<Laney> had my time today consumed with autopkgtest falling over in like 4 different ways
<seb128> :(
<Laney> AHHH YEAHHHH git bisect run
<seb128> :)
<Laney> git bisect run --help is an awful thing
<Laney> it executes "--help"
<Laney> which probably ruins your in progress bisect :<
<seb128> :(
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: no kidding.  I'm in the mountains snowboarding now after leaving summer on Friday ð
<marcustomlinson> :)
<willcooke> hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> Hey willcooke
<kenvandine> It's -21 with the wind chill here!
<kenvandine> -21F that is
<kenvandine> -9F actual
<kenvandine> What a shock for my body ð
<willcooke> kenvandine, yowzer!
<Trevinho> willcooke: mh mpt no answered yet, if you want we can prepare an upload without it, and in case we add
<willcooke> Trevinho, yes please - don't upload to Bionic.  I don't think it's the right thing to do.  If anyone wants to argue strongly to do it, then we can discuss, but right now I think we have to leave B as it is.
<Trevinho> willcooke: No, I meant, let's upload without not to waste time :)
<willcooke> I'm not sure I follow you, "upload without" i.e. upload with out the Bionic part?
<willcooke> Trevinho, ^
<willcooke> you're saying you're going to upload only to Disco?
<Trevinho> willcooke: yes :)
<willcooke> Trevinho, got ya!  Sounds good, thanks!
<Trevinho> :)
<Trevinho> seb128: can you please pull https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+git/gnome-settings-daemon/+ref/ubuntu/bionic (with tags) in ubuntu-desktoP?
<Trevinho> (it's just syncing with what the distro has)
<willcooke> night all
<seb128> Trevinho, k, I tried, let me know if I start getting along with git better :)
<Trevinho> seb128: if you can upload, here I've pushed also the dock without that change
<Trevinho> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/3597/+packages
<seb128> trevinho, I uploaded the one from this morning, is there an issue with it?
<Trevinho> seb128: bionic?
<Trevinho> the bionic one had that fix changing ux..
<Trevinho> so might need to change version then, but I'm about to leave now ð¢
<seb128> Trevinho, right, well we said it's minor so I upload and let's see what the SRU team think, if they don't like it we reupload without
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-01-22
<Trevinho> hey duflu, when you've a sec can you please update https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1779615 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1767648 to be SRU compliant?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1779615 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Shell text and some icons have sharp edges during zoom" [Low,In progress]
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1767648 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Top bar and shell dialogs are not displayed properly when zoom is enabled" [High,In progress]
<Trevinho> and even https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1772677
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1772677 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell filling up syslog with thousands/millions of entries with stack traces ending in osdWindow.js (lines 206/207 in bionic, lines 223/224 in cosmic)" [High,In progress]
<Trevinho> [ for those that are already upstreamed there's no need for direct verification, but still the schema has to be respected ]
<duflu> Trevinho, yes. What about disco getting the fixes tho?
<Trevinho> duflu: I've done the work at debian, so we'll sync it once we get it uploaded
<duflu> Trevinho, I shall try to remember to update them today
<Trevinho> duflu: see https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/mutter/merge_requests
<Trevinho> I've to rebase our gnome-shell on debian experimental too, but I'll do it tomorrow I guess, although I wanted to have things lanted in debian first..
<Trevinho> so we've debian -> disco -> SRU
<Trevinho> not the fastest way, but the best to have everything around
<duflu> Trevinho, all SRU text written for those 3 bugs, although I need some assistance from the community completing bug 1772677
<ubot5> bug 1772677 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell filling up syslog with thousands/millions of entries with stack traces ending in osdWindow.js (lines 206/207 in bionic, lines 223/224 in cosmic)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1772677
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<duflu> It must be time for me to water the flowers then :)
<didrocks> hey duflu
<didrocks> heh
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<seb128> k, back, good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme?
<oSoMoN> seb128, Ã§a va, et toi?
<seb128> Ã§a va :)
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN, seb128
<seb128> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<Laney> hark
<willcooke> moin
<duflu> morn Laney, willcooke
<kostadin[m]> Hello desktop team. I filed this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gjs/+bug/1812780 today, let me know if I can help with more details or testing. Thank you
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1812780 in gjs (Ubuntu) "Gnome Shell crashes when Android emulator started" [Undecided,New]
<duflu> kostadin[m], done :)
<oSoMoN> hey Laney, willcooke
<Laney> greetings one and all
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney
<seb128> oSoMoN, trevinho, andyrock, the keyboard indicator/layout missing, it's apparently a fallout from the fix for bug #1765304 (see recent comments)
<ubot5> bug 1765304 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Bionic) "Ubuntu 18.04's ibus package breaks password fields in Firefox (by lowering & raising window whenever they're focused)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765304
<oSoMoN> urgh
<oSoMoN> I have the issue on cosmic, so it should be easy to confirm that this is what caused the regression
<willcooke> could that be related to the missing OSK keys too I wonder
<oSoMoN> interesting, I'm not seeing it in a clean and up-to-date cosmic VM
<duflu> I saw that today but marked it as a duplicate of an older bug
<duflu> Lemme see
<duflu> -older +newer :)
<duflu> OK, it is new (bug 1812266)
<ubot5> bug 1812266 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout indicator does not indicate current layout (18.04 Bionic beaver)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1812266
<kostadin[m]> duflu: thanks you and sorry for the duplicate! I followed the steps and this should have the crash log https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1812827
<ubot5> Error: ubuntu bug 1812827 not found
<duflu> kostadin[m], thanks but I can't see that. Is it a private bug?
<duflu> I should be able to see private bugs though
<kostadin[m]> it does say it's private but I don't know how to make it public
<kostadin[m]> I created it using ubuntu-bug _usr_bin_gnome-shell.1000.crash
<duflu> kostadin[m], top right of the page?
<kostadin[m]> done
<seb128> kostadin[m], duflu, bugs are private until retraced
<duflu> More private than the private that I can see :)
<duflu> OK then I should have waited
<kostadin[m]> anyway i set it to public now
<duflu> kostadin[m], thanks. I have added the missing information from your crash report to the main bug 1812527 so we can keep using that
<ubot5> bug 1812527 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell crashes with SIGSEGV in meta_window_actor_is_destroyed() called from windowManager.js:1787 when running Android emulator (QEMU)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1812527
<duflu> Looks like a simple case of meta_window_actor_is_destroyed only understands partially destroyed objects. If you give it NULL then it crashes.
<seb128> jbicha, "he latest xdg-desktop-portal depends on libflatpak (part of the flapak source) which depends on ostree."
<seb128> shouldn't that has been discussed *before* syncing the new portal versions?
<seb128> kenvandine, jamesh, ^ btw
<seb128> Laney, "we need to get dnsmasq to migrate", is that what make nm.py fail in the current autopkgtest tries?
<Laney> probably
<seb128> good
<jamesh> seb128: this almost looks like it is just for a set of enumerations and a function function to register a GError domain
<seb128> jamesh, that sounds like it should be easy to remove the depends then :)
<seb128> jamesh, btw weekly summary reminder!
<jamesh> seb128: https://github.com/flatpak/flatpak/blob/master/common/flatpak-portal-error.c <- this in particular
<k_alam> seb128: Hi
<popey> This is odd.. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1812841
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1812841 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Installing / Removal behaves differently depending on how GNOME Software is launched" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> k_alam, hey
<seb128> popey, could be that the env is different
<popey> yeah, weird
<k_alam> seb128: Can you approve landing of gnote-scope ? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/disco/+queue?queue_state=0
<seb128> k_alam, I need to review it, adding to my todo for later
<k_alam> Thanks. The bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1810729
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1810729 in Ubuntu "[Needs-Packaging] Replace tomboy scope with gnote scope for unity (Disco)" [Wishlist,In progress]
<Trevinho> Hi!
<Trevinho> seb128: yes, I noticed and in fact I've cherry picked another commit in the proposed shell sru...
<seb128> trevinho, good :)
<seb128> and hey trevinho!
<seb128> going back to a tz which is more like you? ;)
<seb128> jamesh, weekly summary? ;)
<seb128> fossfreedom, hey, thx for debugging that rb/german segfault issue, but "Disable column moving for non-english locales" sounds like a workaround and not a fix/something we want to really commit right?
<seb128> fossfreedom, or at least it's  a temporary hack until we fix the binding/toolkit bug ... do you have a testcase that triggers the segfault?
<jbicha> seb128: sure but it wasn't obvious that xdg-desktop-portal had a new binary dependency
<seb128> jbicha, k, I guess it's an easy error to make
<jbicha> "d/control: Build-depend on flatpak, for permission-store test"
<jbicha> I thought it was only a test dependency :(
<seb128> yeah, that sounds misleading
<jbicha> so I guess our first step is to ask upstream to revert the dependency?
<jbicha> at least the same developer figured out a way around it when I asked for it for gnome-control-center's Applications panel so it's possible ð¤
<seb128> jbicha, yeah, see jamesh's comment earlier, that shouldn't be too difficult
<seb128> jbicha, also just curious but why/how is hosting tarballs on gitlab rather than launchpad an improvement? do we really care where upstream puts the files we download?
<jbicha> I only mentioned it because I was talking to mterry this week and helped answer his questions and talk through what he was wanting to do anyway
<seb128> k
<seb128> good to see him back on hacking in deja-dup btw :)
<seb128> (brb, changing location)
<jbicha> Laney: do you think we should close bug 1763628 since it works in Disco? is it worth an SRU to fix the autopkgtest on Bionic?
<ubot5> bug 1763628 in colord (Ubuntu) "autopkgtests are failing on valgrind" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1763628
<Laney> jbicha: dunno, ask the SRU team what they want I guess
<jbicha> ok
<fossfreedom_> seb128: re rhythmbox - as far as I can see it is GTK/RB blowing its lid - from the trace provided there isn't anything special.  Python is not doing anything extraordinary here - RB is (as far as I can tell) forcing a fixed view.  Moving columns isn't a RB capability anyway - just something I threw in during development.
<mpt> andyrock, willcooke: Hi, is putting Livepatch in Ubiquity still relevant? https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/desktop-design/issues/50 Or is that obsolete given current installer plans?
<gitbot> CanonicalLtd issue 50 in desktop-design "Livepatch in the desktop installer" [Priority: Medium, Open]
<andyrock> mpt: I guess it's no longer relevant since we moved it to g-i-s ?
<willcooke> mpt, oooh. Yeah, I think it can be dropped now.  We have a good integration in g-i-s now, and I think that works better
<mpt> andyrock, willcooke: Thanks, Iâve closed it.
<willcooke> thanks mpt
<willcooke> meeting time
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-01-22
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan 22 14:31:19 2019 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-01-22 | Current topic:
<andyrock> o/
<jbicha> o/
<oSoMoN>    \o
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (conf)
<seb128>  hey
<Trevinho> o/
<kenvandine> \o
<didrocks> hey
<willcooke> Let's start
<willcooke> A couple of things to discuss at the end, but let's look at bugs first:
<willcooke> bb incoming: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> One new one from today about behaviours in g-s
<willcooke> s = Software
<willcooke> Seems annoying, but not a rls issue IMO
<willcooke> +1s / -1s?
<kenvandine> willcooke: that is puzzling
<seb128> I'm the one who tagged it but I'm neutral, it's not that important at the OS level imho but it's annoying if we want the snap experience to be great
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> if the website is a primary access to the store/snaps and clicking on it gives a buggy experience it sucks
<didrocks> agreed
<oSoMoN> yes
<kenvandine> seb128: i'll take a look at it
<seb128> thx kenvandine
<willcooke> oki
<willcooke> targetted and assigned
<willcooke> BB rls tracking: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> This one I targetted by accident, so could be untargetted:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/oem-priority/+bug/1809788
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1809788 in OEM Priority Project "bionic - TBT authentication message will be cut from the dialog box" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> do you know how much the oem teams cares about it?
<willcooke> Enough to email me, but I dont know if they've been asked to fix it.  I will find outl
<seb128> thx
<willcooke> kenvandine, this one has sat for a while now:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1742997
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1742997 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Newly installed applications are not showing in "Installed"" [Low,Fix released]
<seb128> the issue with deleting a target is that you can't add it back again (unless that changed/got fixed on launchpad)
<willcooke> Could you poke Robert
<kenvandine> i will
<kenvandine> i plan to check on the status of snapd-glib and gnome-software SRUs anyway
<willcooke> tkamppeter, do you need any help with this:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups-filters/+bug/1763520
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1763520 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "after upgrade to bionic, printing fails without explanation / logs / debuggability" [High,In progress]
<willcooke> CC incoming: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> all clear
<willcooke> CC tracking:
<willcooke> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> All looks ok
<willcooke> DD incoming:
<willcooke> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> clear
<willcooke> DD tracking:
<willcooke> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> all good.
<willcooke> Proposed migrations: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<willcooke> We need someone to look at the emacs one.
<willcooke> oh, sorry, Laney - do you want to drive?
<seb128> I did for emacs, it's on foundations
<Laney> seb filed a bug about that, punted it to another team
<willcooke> cool
<willcooke> thanks
<willcooke> anything else in the list which we should jump on?
<didrocks> seb128: doko pinged me about emacs on the MIR meeting though
<Laney> udisks2 colord
<seb128> didrocks, to ask?
<didrocks> seb128: what we do with the MIR
<didrocks> well
<seb128> what MIR?
<jbicha> Laney: we just need to update the i386 hint for colord
<seb128> Laney, I can look at udisks2
<didrocks> seb128: sorry, he asked me to try to unblock it from proposed
<didrocks> so, the message didn't go through the foundation team (at least, not everyone)
<seb128> didrocks, ah, tell him to review their rls-dd-incoming bugs :p
<didrocks> heh
<Laney> actually he referenced https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<seb128> let me tell him on devel
<Laney> which does list emacs
<seb128> ah
<doko> are component mismatches on that list?
<tkamppeter> willcooke, the only thiung there is that the GTK packages need to get uploaded. Then the SRU process should go its way.
<willcooke> thx tjaalton
<willcooke> opps, sorry, thx tkamppeter
<seb128> tkamppeter, willcooke, GTK doesn't "only" need to be uploaded, it needs an upstream review first
<seb128> doko, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/automake-1.16/+bug/1812688 is also blocking emacs (and other things) if you/someone from foundations could have a look
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1812688 in automake-1.16 (Ubuntu) "self-check-report.sh fails on armhf/disco since new year" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> thx for udisks2
<Laney> who wants to take those MIRs or whatever for emacs then?
<seb128> I can have a look I guess
<willcooke> thx seb128
<willcooke> any other concerns on the list Laney?
<jbicha> willcooke: weren't you going to ask whether emacs needed to be in main?
<seb128> it looks like mailutils should be moved to suggests
<seb128> instead of recommends
<willcooke> jbicha, I did, it does.
<jbicha> cool, thanks
<Laney> nothing else today
<willcooke> #topic OB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-01-22 | Current topic: OB
<willcooke> jbicha, you wanted to talk about the new portals stuff I think>
<willcooke> ?
<doko> willcooke: please tell your staff to properly escalate ;)  seb128, you surely need to have the last word everywhere
<seb128> willcooke, rls-dd-incoming is the defined process
<seb128> ups
<seb128> doko, ^
<jbicha> willcooke: we discused that some pre-meeting. I filed a bug upstream and was asked to submit a pr for the libflatpak issue
<willcooke> k, thx jbicha
<kenvandine> jbicha: thanks
<kenvandine> i fear libflatpak is going to keep creeping in
<didrocks> kenvandine: indeed, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flatpak/+bug/1812456 was mentioned in the MIR meeting
<kenvandine> same thing nearly happened with g-c-c
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1812456 in flatpak (Ubuntu) "[MIR} libflatpak" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<jbicha> kenvandine: same developer too :)
<didrocks> (MIR currently set as incomplete)
<jbicha> I think I should go ahead and close the MIR since it may not be necessary now
<kenvandine> jbicha: i just worry this is going to keep happening
<willcooke> We can carry this on sfter the meeting ^
<willcooke> AOB?
<willcooke> 5
<willcooke> 4
<willcooke> 3,2,1
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan 22 14:59:43 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-01-22-14.31.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks
<seb128> thx
<oSoMoN> thanks
<andyrock> thx
<didrocks> thx
<willcooke> kenvandine, so for those fp ones, do we just need to keep an eye out?
<kenvandine> probably
<kenvandine> at some point we might want to consider the MIR for libflatpak
<kenvandine> just to reduce the pain
<jbicha> so leave the MIR as incomplete for now?
<jbicha> it needs an ostree MIR anyway
<kenvandine> jbicha: yeah
<kenvandine> jbicha: but we might want to revisit it at some point
<kenvandine> i didn't read all the scrollback, what did jamesh say about that?
<jbicha> I think we can adjust xdg-desktop-portal to not require libflatpak so I'm going to work on that this week
<kenvandine> jbicha: thanks!
<fossfreedom_> jbicha: on yesterdays gnome-menu's update this was in the changelog "debian/gnome-menus.triggers: Drop "gmenucache"."  - what is that?  FYI had a report today that menus have stopped displaying content on UB and I'm trying to narrow down what was changed between yesterday and today
<jbicha> fossfreedom_: that trigger is just a remaining diff we have with Debian; it wasn't touched itself
<fossfreedom_> ah - ok. cheers
<jbicha> have you reproduced the issue yourself yet?
<fossfreedom_> waiting for today's daily ISO...
<jbicha> fossfreedom_: the most obvious change is that we killed the Sundry menu so I'm guessing you'll need to update Budgie for that. Sorry about that.
<fossfreedom_> can't think why we have anything coded for that menu category ... but sure - something to focus on.
<jbicha> https://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=Sundry+package%3Abudgie-desktop
<fossfreedom_> intriguing - upstream obviously added that recently - looks like budgie now is hiding that category forceably
<ricotz> jbicha, hi
<jbicha> hi
<jbicha> vala?
<ricotz> gdm3 fails to start due to the missing "org.gnome.desktop.peripherals.touchscreen" is missing "display" key
<ricotz> I guess I shouldn't use gsettings-desktop-schemas from -proposed
<jbicha> yes, bug 1812143
<ubot5> bug 1812143 in mutter (Ubuntu) "gsettings-desktop-schemas 3.31 breaks mutter 3.30" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1812143
<ricotz> I see
<ricotz> thanks
<jbicha> I guess I could add the Breaks now
<ricotz> and yeah, it would be great if you could pick up vala 0.42.5
<willcooke> dinner time, bbl
<seb128> willcooke, enjoy!
<willcooke> night all
<fossfreedom> jbicha, hi again. re UB menu problem. I can confirm that it is the new gnome-menus that is causing us problems :(  Debian's version of gnome-menus hasnt migrated yet to testing.  Can/should the migration be stopped - if so how?  I've raised LP: #1812908
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1812908 in gnome-menus (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Budgie no longer shows any menu categories after the upgrade" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1812908
<jbicha> fossfreedom: to stop it from migrating to testing, all you need to do is open a Severity: serious bug with Version: 3.31.4-2
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-01-23
<jibel> good morning
<duflu> Morning jibel
<duflu> #firstpost
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN, duflu!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<jibel> Hi all
<seb128> lut oSoMoN jibel, comment Ã§a va aujourd'hui ?
<oSoMoN> la nuit a Ã©tÃ© courte mais Ã§a va plutÃ´t bien, et toi?
<seb128> :(
<seb128> ici Ã§a va, je pourrais faire avec plus de sommeil Ã©galement mais j'ai pas trop Ã  me plaindre non plus
<duflu> Hi seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, I am well but my work day is frustrating (bug 1812955)
<ubot5> bug 1812955 in gobject-introspection (Ubuntu) "g-ir-scanner/Shell-0.1 is crashing with SIGSEGV instead of succeeding" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1812955
<duflu> How are you seb128?
<jibel> seb128, Ã§a va bien, comme d'hab et toi?
<seb128> jibel, Ã§a va bien :)
<seb128> duflu, I'm good!
<seb128> duflu, new bugs getting in the way of work you want to do, I know the feeling!
<duflu> Yeah happened yesterday too. Still unresolved on that one
<Laney> morning
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<duflu> Hi Laney and willcooke
<willcooke> hihihihihi
<willcooke> Laney, do you know who Pete Lawrence is?  He does the "What to look out for in the sky this month" section on The Sky At Night.
<Laney> hey seb128 duflu willcooke jibel oSoMoN didrocks
<Laney> seb128: I'm good, but it's bloody freezing this morning, already had to defrost our gate lock :-O
<oSoMoN> hey Laney, willcooke
<Laney> willcooke: nope, worth checking out?
<Laney> i've never seen that tbh
<willcooke> Laney, if you like that sort of thing.  Which I do. :)
<willcooke> kk, well he took a picture of the lunar eclipse, and it just happened to be in our colour scheme :)
<willcooke> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxcQPa2WsAAZYuv.jpg:large
<Laney> :D
<willcooke> I've emailed him to ask about him entering the wallpaper comp this cycle.
<didrocks> hey Laney
<duflu> willcooke, speaking of colour scheme I still slightly regret not suggesting this as a launch video for utopic :)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfUM7h2SgpA
<willcooke> duflu, :)
<willcooke> reminds me of:
<willcooke> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/FzE5C8bZ8ySifa1EG-jv1UgAnx1-yueyyJar_ineBMXGkkwgjo1TX2zkJFpV8LwlV86bzk2L5Ce2UGWf4NY8U-bGcqJqhtEdWE8jh8lY6hon-XTlY5tLjQgGaTwDmKffQMBIb1NT-xkk96ov_L2yt0umOhOxsgOGs_CB-DpgkLHMnWsZVUI5Vl1uJHHTP7uyRfk2NGUTQW98itjsctPzFNyup7Ybjf5mtNGHiM_Q0_LVkQMUI2XuoAPGRWYt7oEWn6OZMmlTLhNnFuPl-G1BTt43ZSyGcyg-2zLofS5E-v60s5-lBlRKKfp4ycbQL4Wyvpqe3teoG3pS5Kvu9ZWQg8Vhy1PCEEeP8URll61ygzyC1_5AdbCS2N00ZCfCew03kBB9OapyIAlHZqbCfaP
<willcooke> zi15gErk9z0sf0sXB3b9X472LwxvCHBXE68JmFsURY9CjLloSJ14zeZ-MZzIOwWMgpj75PkiOX8uxeHxZHSW7Cm-jIxev6jNEte6ESOz9GGI2G3wIs2RzO5hSSr60KI0k9p3R3hAtSoDGLF1RV5iIbW9abxe3p4VRZbAQcMiKXONV5GSDghlnx--BMmvKOkYWirpHEyYfHBvVZEcg4gB7Xd4OnFXlss7cOQoIj_osWknMCbzU2tSx1lk1lZRm00l27nVI4Q=w1254-h941-no
<willcooke> err
<willcooke> https://tinyurl.com/yd48jfeo
<duflu> willcooke, I know, I was in the room
<duflu> maybe that was Malta 2014?
<didrocks> is it you on the left?
<didrocks> can recognize everyone but the guy on the left ;)
<duflu> No, not me, but we unicorns do look pretty similar
<didrocks> :)
<willcooke> I think that was Oakland
<Laney> https://photos.app.goo.gl/zLgG1aHuFoT6Dz5w7
<Laney> tyson's corner
<duflu> OK. Later in 2014
<willcooke> :))
<Laney> duflu: i'm getting strange segfaults too in jhbuild... not the same trace as you, though
<Laney> can you build gdk-pixbuf? that's the one I'm trying to build atm
<duflu> Laney, sorry I don't seem to get usable chat notifications any more. It's getting late but lemme see
<duflu> Laney, upstream or disco?
<duflu> Laney, gdk-pixbuf is building fine (upstream and disco) but I don't use jhbuild at all. Not about to start especially since it's dinner time
<duflu> Night
<Laney> people and their not-being-online-constantly
<Laney> (git, so upstream?)
<Laney> (and gnome-shell from disco builds OK for me in a schroot)
 * Laney shrugs, works OK after cleaning out jhbuild and starting again
<didrocks> that's the "reboot" alternative
<Laney> yeh, turn it off and on again
<Laney> what even was I trying to do in the first place
<Laney> oh, gnome-keyring tests?
<clobrano> hi everyone o/
<clobrano> willcooke: thanks for the post :)
<willcooke> hey clobrano
<willcooke> clobrano, does it align with your thoughts?
<clobrano> willcooke: yes, I personally like how adwaita is changing and the new iconset looks promising, so I am open in using it in the future, but also we have awesome designers now working on Suru
<clobrano> Suru/Yaru iconset, I don't know how to call it now :D
<willcooke> :)
<didrocks> Sururu?
<jbicha> clobrano: I'd just call the iconset Yaru since it's clearly diverged from Suru (from the Suru creator's perspective at least :| )
<clobrano> jbicha: yes, that's true
<jbicha> Laney: could you review https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/britney/update-colord-hint/+merge/362092 ?
<jbicha> good morning
<Laney> jbicha: looks good
<Laney> my kingdom for a 'merge' button
<jbicha> merge buttons are awesome
<Laney> let's do a bounty thing for someone to implement it in LP
<jbicha> I don't have much of a kingdom to contribute to the pool :(
<seb128> jbicha, Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-desktop3/+bug/1807127/comments/11 just fyi
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1807127 in gnome-desktop3 (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Fixing bug #1795668 breaks thumbnail creation on 32-bit Ubuntu" [Critical,Fix committed]
<seb128> (brb, rebooting on disco)
<Laney> seb128: doesn't happen on bionic? i.e. issue with the backport or?
<seb128> Laney, I don't know, I can test in a bit there
<Laney> thx
<seb128> I didn't try the bionic SRU version on cosmic, should have
<seb128> I reboot again a bit later :)
<Laney> if it is a bad backport then I would prefer jbicha to take a look, he did that update
<Laney> if bad code from me, I will :P
<Laney> this gnome-keyring thing ... not sure how to fix it ...
<seb128> Laney, did you try asking philip if he has any opinion on it?
<Laney> yes
<seb128> :/
<Laney> will give him a bit to reply
<Laney> only looked at one of the tests so far, let me see if the others are a similar thing
<seb128> shrug, nautilus hangs on start on my disco, blocked in libtracker-sparql-2.0.so.0 calls it looks like
<jbicha> Laney: you're aware that gcr had to make changes for glib 2.59 compatibility, right?
<seb128> Error on getting connection: Failed to load SPARQL backend: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Message recipient disconnected from message bus without replying
<seb128> great
<Laney> jbicha: no, no reason why I would be aware of that
<jbicha> ok, I'm mentioning it now in case it helps with your gnome-keyring investigating: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gcr/commit/038962d6
<Laney> thx, yes I saw that commit
<jbicha> that fix is already in disco so I guess it doesn't directly fix the problem
<Laney> change*
<Laney> no, and anyway I'm using jhbuild (master of everything)
<seb128> the doko way for fixing a test issue, disable it without details/explanation and as a delta over Debian for a package that was in sync, great...
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: any thoughts on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1461759
<ubot5> Mozilla bug 1461759 in Security: Process Sandboxing "[snap] Opening a file with "Url Handler Script" does nothing" [Normal,New]
<kenvandine> you had commented in the past
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, I'll need to investigate further to understand how firefox requests opening a file
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: it might have something to do with the snap including it's own mime database that claims it supports anything
<kenvandine> which makes it call out to xdg-open for all file types
<Laney> sheesh
<Laney> this flow is suUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuper complicated
<Laney> I guess that's true of most problems you don't know thouugh
<Laney> ahhhhhhhHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhh
<sergiusens> willcooke: kenvandine that multimonitor dpi/resolution thing, is that latest and greatest disco?
<willcooke> sergiusens, still WIP, but yeah, will be in Disco
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, a number of snaps are copy/pasting my gtk3-locales part (https://git.launchpad.net/~chromium-team/chromium-browser/+git/snap-from-source/tree/snapcraft.yaml?h=stable#n207), what do you think of adding those locales to the gnome platform snap instead?
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: that's a very interesting idea
<oSoMoN> IIRC that would only be needed for the core18 gnome platform snap, the core16 one is built from the gnome-3-26 PPA which already has those translations
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: lets do it
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: i'll do that this week
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, thanks!
<willcooke> night all
<oSoMoN> good night
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-01-24
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<duflu> didrocks, did you notice disco doesn't use a gradient on the login screen any more? :)
<didrocks> duflu: I didn't, but TBH, I don't really pay attention, it's mostly autotyping by then :)
<didrocks> I saw your bug report, I think it's easy for anyone interested to update the patch (just annoying G-S hardcodes thoses and don't use the theme)
<tjaalton> duflu: hi, have you tried intel-media-va-driver? only the non-free version seems to work here
<tjaalton> this is the new driver for broadwell and up
<duflu> tjaalton, no I haven't. I felt we have enough backward compatibility problems so recommending a new driver that works on even fewer Intel chips would only make life more difficult. But if it does work then we can recommend it. Just don't install by default unless the system requirements are met
<tjaalton> right
<duflu> tjaalton, I think I was assuming that libva won't try multiple drivers in order if all installed. Maybe I should test that on <=haswell
<duflu> Actually I don't know if there is an order or priority even
<tjaalton> there kinda was, it's gone from the unreleased version
<tjaalton> right now it'd use the old driver
<tjaalton> if both are installed
<duflu> Oh! Simple answer: /usr/share/doc/intel-media-va-driver/README.Debian
<tjaalton> yeah
<duflu> There must be some autodetection or else we couldn't have all those drivers (*_drv_video.so) installed simultaneously.
<duflu> So either the readme is out of date, or it will already try i965 first
<tjaalton> it will, just said so ;)
<duflu> Maybe we can ship the new one too
<tjaalton> maybe the next libva will do something else
<duflu> tjaalton, I am assuming that the new driver will simply refuse to load like nouveau or radeon on Intel hardware if using Haswell
<tjaalton> if forced? probably
<duflu> So we then could say to always try i^D before i965
<duflu> So we then could say to always try iHD before i965
<tjaalton> right
<duflu> You'd just need each driver to export priority information and test them all before making a final choice
<tjaalton> https://github.com/intel/libva/commit/b7203fe3b1fa633cece9cd9e5715b6477a708455
<tjaalton> upstream dropped the driver list, so I'm not sure what it'll do now
<duflu> tjaalton, I'll try and remember to set up an old Intel system some time and see
<tjaalton> I have one
<tjaalton> not sure which version it has
<tjaalton> of the distro
<duflu> tjaalton, hmm it is failing on Kaby Lake, which is surprising (env LIBVA_DRIVER_NAME=iHD vainfo)
<tjaalton> duflu: which version?
<tjaalton> free or non-free
<tjaalton> probably free
<duflu> tjaalton, the one in archive yeah
<tjaalton> non-free is still on the queue
<duflu> tjaalton, it's all bad news. iHD on Xorg fails to init and fails to fall back so mpv keeps it loaded but uses SW. On Wayland, the old i965 driver seems to have stopped working in disco, so that's a new bug
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Morning seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<tjaalton> duflu: ha, ok
<duflu> seb128, just more frustrated now. More unresolved bugs. How are you?
<seb128> hey tjaalton
<tjaalton> howdy
<seb128> duflu, oh :( which one today?
<duflu> Not logged yet :)
<duflu> Unless you count bug 1813119
<ubot5> bug 1813119 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "In Ubuntu 19.04, the wrong background (a gradient) flashes up briefly during the login animation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1813119
 * duflu logs a new one for i965_drv
<willcooke> morning all
<duflu> Morning willcooke
 * Laney nods
<duflu> Morning Laney
<didrocks> hey seb128j, willcooke, Laney
<jibel> Hi all
<didrocks> hey jibel!
<jibel> :)
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<seb128> hey <list of those who just said good morning> :)
<duflu> tjaalton, happy Thursday: bug 1813131
<ubot5> bug 1813131 in intel-vaapi-driver (Ubuntu) "i965_drv_video.so doesn't load any more if a Wayland server is present [failed to resolve wl_drm_interface(): /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libEGL_mesa.so.0: undefined symbol: wl_drm_interface]" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1813131
<duflu> Hi jibel
<duflu> and hi oSoMoN
<tjaalton> hehe
<tjaalton> duflu: sounds like it's more of a bug in mesa though? it migrated to meson..
<tjaalton> so maybe the build is buggy
<willcooke> changing sessions, brb
<duflu> tjaalton, yes I agree. The intel-vaapi-driver source has used that symbol for years
<duflu> And it's still used in trunk
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<willcooke> :)
<duflu> Again. I am distracted and not trying to be facetious
<willcooke> ha
<willcooke> Hm
<willcooke> Perhaps I'm going mad, but I would swear that the old "hold down alt and drag anywhere on a window" changed to super with GNOME Shell.
<willcooke> Mine is now back at alt again?!
<willcooke> I did install the vanilla GNOME session this morning, if that makes any different
<willcooke> difference
 * willcooke tries it on Disco
<willcooke> yeah, it's super on Disco
<willcooke> and I thought everywhere else
<willcooke> perhaps the vanilla gnome desktop packages changed something?
<willcooke> Perhaps I did
<willcooke> strange
<xnox> seb128, Laney - has anybody started to look into udisks2 autopkgtest failure in disco-proposed, possibly with/without/due to new-kernel/new-systemd?
<xnox> on ppc64el only
<xnox> was hoping for a pair programme ;-)
<seb128> xnox, I've it on my backlog but didn't look yet, if you want to do that it would be welcome :)
<xnox> ha
<xnox> could be new mdadm too at play =/
<seb128> right, the last successful was with mdadm rc1
<xnox> seb128, check this out
<xnox> upstream-system      PASS
<xnox> ubuntu@dradis:~/udisks2-2.8.1$ uname -a
<xnox> Linux dradis 4.15.0-38-generic #41-Ubuntu SMP Wed Oct 10 10:57:45 UTC 2018 ppc64le ppc64le ppc64le GNU/Linux
 * xnox upgrades kernel
<xnox> but also this is baremetal, not in qemu.
<seb128> we had an earlier identic failure with mdadm rc1 so might not be it
<seb128> well diff between a fail and a working retry from decembre there are no package difference, same kernel version in the autopkgtest instance
<seb128> seems it was flacky and now is just failing
<xnox> seb128, right, with v4.19 kernel got another flake (different), then a pass. Upgrading to new systemd from proposed now.
<xnox> to see if it stays flakey, or gets significantly worse.
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: gnome-3-28-1804 in candidate includes gtk3-locales
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: maybe you should do a test build of chromium using the gnome extension PR without your gtk3-locales part
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: sorry... building chromium can't be fun :-D
<xnox> seb128, ok it passes, eventually with all proposed too.
<seb128> :(
<xnox> seb128, i'll rerun the test one last time; then will request to add it to the "big packages" such that it gets a bigger VM
<xnox> seb128, then i don't know.
<seb128> k
<xnox> i guess one has to dig into where the race is, and make tests probe and wait for things more.....
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, ack, thanks! I'll test with libreoffice first, it builds an order of magnitude faster
<kenvandine> awesome
<xnox> seb128, it passed =) today is a good day
<xnox> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/u/udisks2/disco/ppc64el
<seb128> xnox, did you just retry or did you get a more powerful VM?
<xnox> seb128, simple retry
<xnox> it's not added to "big_packages" yet
<seb128> hum, k
<seb128> lucky then :)
<xnox> seb128, and the cloud is quiet at the moment, and doesn't have like 10,0000 of things running
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: let me know when it's ready so i can test it too
<seb128> xnox, so probably a case of "things are too slow and the test doesn't wait enough" :/
<xnox> in three harmonies.
<mdeslaur> Is anyone chasing down the "auto-multiple-choice" package failing its autopkgtests because of a theming issue?
<seb128> mdeslaur, I don't think so
<seb128> mdeslaur, I can have a look, thanks for pointing it out
<mdeslaur> thanks seb128
<jbicha> seb128: I can look at auto-multiple-choice this weekend
<seb128> jbicha, thx
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, I unpacked the libreoffice snap built with the gnome extension, removed the gtk3 translations, repacked and installed, and it doesn't work, but I know why: we need to add "gnome-platform/usr/share/locale-langpack" to the list of paths in bindtextdomain.c
<kenvandine> oh.. i thought we did that already :)
<kenvandine> ok, that's an easy fix
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: can you suggest that to diddledan so he can add it to his PR?
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, yes, I'll actually test it first, to make sure it's enough
<kenvandine> cool
<jamesh> jbicha: hi.  I'll see if I can separate out the GTK inhibit portal changes for my work day tomorrow (it might just be the single commit, but I need to check if there's anything related)
<jbicha> jamesh: I was going to take a look this weekend so maybe wait until Monday to see what I come up with
<seb128> jbicha, Laney, the gnome-desktop/bubblewrap fix doesn't have the warnings in bionic so it's only a problem with the cosmic version (also no warning in disco)
<jbicha> seb128: ok let's add that to my list too :)
<seb128> jbicha, thx
<jamesh> jbicha: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/commit/3fc319ff1be391430f23701673253e1c0994a0cc might be all that's needed
<jbicha> jamesh: oh I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about xdg-desktop-portal, so please look into that tomorrow and let me know if you need that (or any other commits) SRU'd to bionic
<kenvandine> jbicha: are you planning a bionic SRU for xdg-desktop-portal?
<kenvandine> jbicha: i have it built in a PPA for testing
<jbicha> kenvandine: I figured you were doing it since I saw your cosmic SRU in progress :)
<kenvandine> jbicha: yeah.. i am planning to
<kenvandine> jbicha: i didn't want you duplicating work
<jbicha> kenvandine: what's interesting to me is how the libflatpak issue intersects with https://github.com/flatpak/xdg-desktop-portal-gtk/issues/166
<gitbot> flatpak issue 166 in xdg-desktop-portal-gtk "possible unexpected attachments" [Closed]
<jbicha> so I guess that will be for the next SRU
<acheronuk> jbicha kenvandine: would be appreciated to coordinate a SRU of the KDE portal with that
<acheronuk> See: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2018-December/011748.html
<kenvandine> acheronuk: yeah
<jbicha> acheronuk: what kind of coordination did you have in mind?
<kenvandine> i was thinking just letting you guys know when i upload xdg-desktop-portal to bionic
<jbicha> kenvandine: will xenial be getting xdg-desktop-portal 1.0.3 too?
<kenvandine> jbicha: yes
<acheronuk> ^^^ more or less that. I'm not aware of any issue that mean they MUST be updated together, but I'll check into that as I don't know for sure
<kenvandine> acheronuk: i have mentioned this to sitter
<jbicha> seb128: could you subscribe desktop bugs to xdg-dbus-proxy LP: #1811824
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1811824 in xdg-dbus-proxy (Ubuntu) "[MIR] xdg-dbus-proxy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1811824
<acheronuk> kenvandine: ok. he is not doing any active k/ubuntu dev work now, so in practical terms implementation is for me
<acheronuk> or tsimonq2 if I am not around
<kenvandine> acheronuk: ah, ok thanks
<seb128> jbicha, k
<czajkowski> c
<seb128> jbicha, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/407988119/auto-multiple-choice_1.4.0-1_1.4.0-1+testubuntu1.diff.gz fixes the autopkgtest issue mentioned earlier, should I upload or do you want to try a better solution/to get something in Debian? (is that a gtk change to start warning about missing icons?)
<jbicha> seb128: you can upload that if you like. The timing of the test failures started after https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yaru-theme/19.04 there wasn't a gtk3 upload at the right time to be the failure trigger
<jbicha> Laney: did we want to do a 3.31 git snapshot of mutter? because the gsettings-desktop-schemas conflict with mutter 3.30 is annoying
<jbicha> other alternatives: we could remove the 3.31 g-d-s for now from disco-proposed or I could add dummy gsettings keys and drop the Breaks for now
<Laney> jbicha: Trevinho's worked on many build system issues
<Laney> it's probably best to wait for the next release given that
<Laney> the problem is they dropped keys? feel free to patch them back in imho
<Trevinho> or we use a snapshot, but...
<jbicha> renamed keys :(
<jbicha> ok
<Laney> you already told all in-archive consumers of those keys?
<Trevinho> if you want a current git snapshot for mutter talk now, or I won't do it later xD
 * Laney wouldn't bother, you go get the SRU finished :P
<Trevinho> yep I do agree
<Trevinho> the annoying stuff has been done anyway, so feel free to inherit my branch in case.
<jbicha> sure, I'll add the keys back since that will give us more time to make sure everything is working without holding things up
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-01-25
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks  (#firstpost)
<didrocks> \o/
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers, happy Friday!
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<willcooke> morning
<Laney> pew
<Laney> happy friday!
<duflu> pew pew
<duflu> Morning willcooke, Laney
<willcooke> happy Friday afternoon duflu
<duflu> Also thanks to Laney for getting important stuff done while I slept
<ogra> they allow you to sleep ?!? ... what kind of manager do you have ?!
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney duflu
<duflu> Shit. He didn't know
<seb128> happy friday indeed
<duflu> Oh hi seb128 :)
<willcooke> hey ogra!  I was reading about the new Orange Pi yesterday, nice specs.  Do you know if there are any plans for Ubuntu Core support in the works?
<ogra> none that i know of, nope ... what SoC is it ?
<willcooke> Allwinner S <something>  7 I think
<willcooke> maybe 11
<ogra> nice
<ogra> chances are good that it is supported by my linux-generic-allwinner snap
<willcooke> Correction, H6
<willcooke> ogra, https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/orange-pi-3-specs-pricing,news-59817.html
<willcooke> USB3, 2GB RAM, eMMC, gigabit eth, mini pci
<willcooke> Claims it comes with Ubuntu
<Laney> hey duflu seb128 ogra willcooke
<ogra> yeah, likely classic with a BSP kernel
<willcooke> Hey Laney, how's the tooth?
<Laney> duflu: np
<Laney> sweet dreams young prince
<Laney> same ol
<willcooke> ogra, neat!  I'll get one
<duflu> willcooke, before anyone gets confused, the Australia Day holiday on Monday is not on Australia Day. We just have a cultural need to allocate a Monday off for all holidays that fall on weekends
<willcooke> duflu, ack, makes sense
 * Laney approves of that
<willcooke> hrm
<jbicha> happy Friday
<seb128> hey jbicha, happy friday to you as well!
<seb128> mdeslaur, bah, not you as well! What's up with people adding ubuntu delta/tech debt with workarounds like disabling features or tests instead of fixing the problems :/
<mdeslaur> seb128: I couldn't figure it out, you'll welcome to help if you'd like :)
<seb128> mdeslaur, not today sorry, but still that's swipping dust under the carpet and adding technical debt
<mdeslaur> seb128: I completely agree, hopefully I can revert it before release
<seb128> what's wrong with letting things blocked in proposed until they get fixed?
<mdeslaur> seb128: but but but, it messes with our kpis!
<seb128> we need a new kpi for "tech debt" :)
<seb128> joke aside it's a trend I don't like
<seb128> doko did the same this week by just disabling automake tests and adding delta over Debian for that
 * seb128 notes to raise that as an issue in Malta
<seb128> or if we just workaround things being blocked in proposed by disabling features/tests then why do we bother having that infra as well, let's go back to just have things just land in the archive
<mdeslaur> hey, I agree with you
<mdeslaur> I've now TIL, so I'll be the one fixing it
<mdeslaur> but the security fixes did need to go in, so it couldn't wait
<seb128> mdeslaur, k, thanks. The security fix point makes sense, that was not obvious from the changelog though. Would be nice in those cases to state as "workaround to unblock due to <....>, that can be reverted once the current version migrates"
<seb128> so if it goes sitting there and someone wants to deal with it then they know the context of why it was done
<mdeslaur> ah yes, good idea
<seb128> anyway, enough on the topic, thx for responding!
<seb128> jbicha, good to see that mathias removed the libflatpak depends from the xdg portal just before 1.2.0 :)
<seb128> willcooke, ^
<willcooke> cool!
<willcooke> thanks
<seb128> np!
<jbicha> seb128: yes, he beat me to it :)
<jbicha> I wasn't expecting 1.2 today though
<jbicha> last I heard was a vague "early 2019" I think
<seb128> what did they add to it?
<jbicha> maybe easiest for me to just link you to https://github.com/flatpak/xdg-desktop-portal/blob/master/NEWS if I understand your question right
<kenvandine> i was surprised by 1.2
<sergiusens> kenvandine: hey, I am trying out Disco and noticed that Ubuntu Software is marking every snap as unconfined. Is there a bug for that or should I log one?
<kenvandine> sergiusens: oh it is?
<kenvandine> i haven't seen a bug for that
<kenvandine> so please file it
<sergiusens> gotcha
 * sergiusens waits for the "Software catalog is being loaded message" to go away, tic toc
<sergiusens> kenvandine: I have this installed on my Surface Pro 4, have to say, performance feels better even if it might be a placebo, but most of all, touch has really improved, the osk works a lot better now.
<kenvandine> oh good to hear
<sergiusens> the only miss is the dock, if you hint a drag, it is hard to get out of it and the shell just goes wonky
<jbicha> sergiusens: how are you running Ubuntu Software?
<jbicha> we patch out the kudos stuff
<sergiusens> jbicha: by clicking on the icon, I just killed the process which stayed after GUI closing and it moved on to "Software Catalog is being downloaded",  for the past 5 minutes
<jbicha> there are some open bugs in Debian about that software catalog is being downloaded issue too
<jbicha> we didn't used to have that problem :( (maybe newer 3.30 releases)
<willcooke> I'm calling it a week.  Have a good weekend all o/
<seb128> have a nice w.e desktopers!
<sergiusens> kenvandine: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1813352
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1813352 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "confined applications show as unconfined" [Undecided,New]
<kenvandine> sergiusens: thanks
<oSoMoN> have a good week-end everyone!
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-01-26
<Trevinho> ls
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-01-27
<mwhudson> robert_ancell: hi around today?
<mwhudson> oh wait lunchtime, biab
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-01-20
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<seb128> goooood morning desktopers!
<ricotz> good morning :)
<didrocks> salut seb128
<didrocks> hey ricotz
<duflu> Morning seb128
<duflu> and good morning ricotz
<duflu> How are you feeling now seb128?
<seb128> hey didrocks  duflu , how are you? had a good w.e?
<seb128> duflu, better, friday was not good, I ended up having over 39Â°C fever for most of the afternoon
<duflu> seb128, yeah it was pleasant.
<seb128> luckily that went over during the night and I was mostly fine for travelling on saturday
<seb128> I'm just having an annoying cough now
<seb128> hey ricotz, how are you
<duflu> Good. I thought 39 degrees was the temp in Cape Town, not yours!?
<ricotz> seb128, good, awaiting a sunny day here :)
<didrocks> seb128: good luck!
<seb128> duflu, would be nice! we had 20Â°C raining yesterday
<seb128> it's a bit warmer and sunnier today :)
<seb128> not that 20Â°C is something to complain about, I prefer a bit of fresh rather than full summer mode :)
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<oSoMoN> good morning ricotz
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, t'as passe un bon w.e?
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<didrocks> morning marcustomlinson
<Laney> moin
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you?
<marcustomlinson> seb128: well thanks. hope you get better soon
<seb128> thx
<oSoMoN> seb128, trÃ¨s bon
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> what up oSoMoN & didrocks
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<duflu>  And good morning Laney
<ricotz> fyi this is getting more and more pressing https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rustc/+bug/1856851
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1856851 in rustc (Ubuntu) "rustc 1.39 and cargo 0.40 required by firefox 73" [Undecided,In progress]
<oSoMoN> yes indeed
<Laney> hey duflu
<ricotz> oSoMoN, basically only 2 weeks
<oSoMoN> ricotz, Michael should be back from holidays now, I'll make sure he understands the urgency
<ricotz> oSoMoN, ok
<seb128> oSoMoN, thunderbird on focal seems to think it's older than eoan's, is that a known issue?
<seb128> oSoMoN, if you install the thunderbird from eoan-updates, start it, close, update to focal, try to start it gives an error saying the cache is from a newer version and it refuses to start
<seb128> seems similar to bug #1851936 maybe the same fix is needed?
<ubot5> bug 1851936 in firefox (Ubuntu) "User profile won't load after upgrade - prompt to create new profile" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1851936
<oSoMoN> seb128, no, but it sounds like a well-known firefox issue (that IÂ recently fixed for good), IÂ wonder if the check from firefox was used in new versions of thunderbird
<seb128> Saviq, ^
<Saviq> oSoMoN: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/xbs6Y4r9Rg/
<Saviq> the build ID seems to be a timestampâ¦
<oSoMoN> right, that definitely looks like the firefox issue
<Saviq> oSoMoN: do you know if there's a bug yet? /me has an apport report waiting
<oSoMoN> Saviq, let's use bug #1851936
<ubot5> bug 1851936 in firefox (Ubuntu) "User profile won't load after upgrade - prompt to create new profile" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1851936
<Saviq> ack
<Saviq> oSoMoN: left some details there https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1851936/comments/15
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1851936 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "User profile won't load after upgrade - prompt to create new profile" [Undecided,New]
<oSoMoN> cheers, I'll see to fixing it asap
<Saviq> \o
<ricotz> seb128, hi, did you notice that libxvmc-dev conflicts with x11proto-dev (/usr/include/X11/extensions/vldXvMC.h)
<seb128> ricotz, no, thanks for pointing it out
<ricotz> yw
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-01-21
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<seb128> lut oSoMoN , comment Ã§a va aujourd'hui?
<oSoMoN> seb128, bien, et toi?
<seb128> bof, still fighting with that cold, went to bed at 9pm just after dinner yesterday but I'm still caughing this morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks and oSoMoN
<seb128> hopefully the long night is going to pay off still though
<oSoMoN> seb128, take it easy (if possibleâ¦)
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN. duflu & seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks , comment Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> seb128: pas de rhume ici, donc câest ok :)
<seb128> :-)
<didrocks> bon courage en tout cas !
<seb128> 'ci ! :-)
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> morning marcustomlinson
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you?
<marcustomlinson> hey seb128, doing alright thanks, how's the sprint going?
<seb128> marcustomlinson, good so far but we didn't have our review yet, it's for tomorrow morning
<seb128> marcustomlinson, good so far but we didn't have our review yet, it's for tomorrow morning
<marcustomlinson> seb128: good luck. In the meantime, enjoy the food ;)
<seb128> thx :)
<ricotz> good morning everyone
<didrocks> good morning marcustomlinson, ricotz!
<ricotz> seb128, hi, could you respond to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vala/+bug/1803136 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1803136 in vala (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] Update to vala 0.40.17 in bionic" [Low,Fix committed]
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hi, feel free to push stable changes to firefox beta
<ricotz> didrocks, hey
<seb128> ricotz, k, I did comment though I'm unsure I'm able to defend the fact that it's fine for a SRU to add incompatible changes that lead to other packages to stop building...
<ricotz> seb128, I owuld argue that gnome-calculator backported some code which triggered this issue, 1:3.28.1-1ubuntu1 built fine
<ricotz> seb128, thank you for the comment
<seb128> ricotz, np
<seb128> ricotz, still the previous gnome-calculator SRU built with the previous vala and stopped building with the SRU so technically it has some sort of incompatible change
<seb128> ricotz, you get away with it because vala isn't used a lot, if that was gcc doing that it wouldn't fly
<ricotz> ok
<seb128> kenvandine, marcustomlinson, eog snap fails to build with
<marcustomlinson> seb128: with?
<seb128> sed: can't read data/eog.desktop.in.in: No such file or directory
<seb128> marcustomlinson, sorry, got pulled into a discussion and had to move then
<seb128> marcustomlinson, it's probably a trivial change, they renamed the desktop on https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/eog/commit/48f83da5e
<marcustomlinson> seb128: Although, looks like it's not built from master for a while now. The builder from which it's being published is here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+snap/eog
<marcustomlinson> so I assume that branch is out of synced with master
<seb128> marcustomlinson, sorry, the one failing is https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+snap/eog-master/
<kenvandine> seb128: i'll fix it
<seb128> kenvandine, thx
<hellsworth> good morning everyone!
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
<marcustomlinson> hey hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi oSoMoN and marcustomlinson !
<didrocks> good morning hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi didrocks !
<hellsworth> team meeting time, no?
<oSoMoN> yes
<hellsworth> kenvandine: meeting time :)
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> just s sec :)
<kenvandine> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting -2020-01-21
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan 21 14:34:35 2020 UTC.  The chair is kenvandine. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting -2020-01-21 | Current topic:
<kenvandine> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney (out), marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, seb128 (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out), Wimpress (out), hellsworth
<marcustomlinson> \o
<oSoMoN> o/
<seb128> hey
<hellsworth> o/
<kenvandine> quiet day :)
<kenvandine> lets dive in
<kenvandine> #topic rls-ff-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting -2020-01-21 | Current topic: rls-ff-bugs
<didrocks> hey
<kenvandine> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> urg, starting in reverse order
 * seb128 is destabilized
<kenvandine> lol
<kenvandine> that's the order in my template :)
<kenvandine> tkamppeter is working on the cups-browsed bug
<kenvandine> bug 1859610
<ubot5> bug 1859610 in pygobject (Ubuntu Focal) "python-gi/arm64 segfaults with the focal-proposed libffi version" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1859610
<kenvandine> do we want to take that?
<seb128> that's fixed in proposed
<seb128> I will update the bug
<kenvandine> oh, thanks
<seb128> tkamppeter, do you need more info for the cups one? it's suprising that you can't reproduce, did you try to a fresh focal install?
<tkamppeter> seb128, I have tried on an FF virtual machine, and there I did not get this crash.
<seb128> :(
<tkamppeter> The configuration there is the standard one.
<tkamppeter> I have a little bit the feeling that it is somewhere deep in Avahi.
<seb128> try maybe in an env without printer available?
<seb128> avahi didn't change in years though
<seb128> the reports statted with the focal update of cups-filters
<seb128> kenvandine, anyway, let's not me delay the meeting on that one, we can discuss after the meeting
<kenvandine> yeah
<tkamppeter> yes, Avahi's maintainer has no time to do further development :(
<kenvandine> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<kenvandine> what's up with the NM bug there?
<kenvandine> bug 1733321
<ubot5> bug 1733321 in network-manager (Ubuntu Focal) "network-manager ADT tests fail with on ppc64el with artful/linux 4.13.0.17.18" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1733321
<kenvandine> that's old, but added focal and friends last month
<kenvandine> guess we don't have anyone to work on it anyway
<seb128> we said we would review the NMs one in a manager meeting but still didn't
<seb128> I recommend we skip them again this week
<kenvandine> skipped :)
<kenvandine> #topic rls-ee-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting -2020-01-21 | Current topic: rls-ee-bugs
<kenvandine> nothing incoming
<kenvandine> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> only nm that we are skipping I think?
<kenvandine> the unassigned mutter bug, which is in proposed
<kenvandine> so moving on
<kenvandine> #topic rls-bb-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting -2020-01-21 | Current topic: rls-bb-bugs
<kenvandine> bug 1855893
<ubot5> bug 1855893 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Properly let PCM leave suspended state when hardware doesn't support PCM resume" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1855893
<seb128> we agreed on track it, I assigned but failed to nominate it looks like, I'm going to fix that now
<kenvandine> should that still be incoming?
<kenvandine> thanks
<kenvandine> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<kenvandine> just NM
<kenvandine> that's it
<Laney> just noted that down
<Laney> in the notes for that meeting
<Laney> to visit there
<kenvandine> hey Laney
<Laney> yo
 * Laney can't see screen very well
<kenvandine> want to talk autopackage?
<kenvandine> or skip this week
<Laney> i havent looked, sorry about that, this is the first time I opened my laptop today :(
<Laney> maybe seb128 is up to date tho
<kenvandine> no worries
<seb128> what?
<Laney> excuses
<seb128> I lost context
<seb128> are you refering to proposed migration? if so yes I can handle that part
<kenvandine> yes
<Laney> wait we didn't do any -incoming?
<kenvandine> yes we did ;)
<seb128> Ken started in reverse order
<seb128> we just finish with bionic :p
<kenvandine> yeah, sorry :)
<seb128> sorry I didn't see your "autopackage" mention
<seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<Laney> oh yeah you just linked the ff one only ;-)
<kenvandine> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting -2020-01-21 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> thx
<seb128> so it's going to be easy
<seb128> $biglist which is due mostly to
<seb128> - python-gi/armhhf being broken unless you manually retry with a right list of triggers
<seb128> - libffi soname transition
<seb128> - build-essential:amd64 not being installable breaking all the i386 tests
<seb128> those things are being worked on and not specific to us
<seb128> in the real issue issues there is openscad/s390x which I've been trying to argue we should skip even if it's a real bug because we don't support graphical stack on s390x
<seb128> gscan2pdf/arm64 seems to be hanging, Laney  was looking at that
<Laney> yes
<Laney> i didn't get back to it today though sorry
<seb128> the new n-m made tests unhappy, I plan to look at that since I did the update
<seb128> glib
<seb128>     xdg-desktop-portal: i386
<seb128> is also my fault and I will fix
<seb128> and I think that's it
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting -2020-01-21 | Current topic: aob
<seb128> A reminder that updates are due on discourse on monday, if you have monday off best to post the friday before
<seb128> (that stands also for people travelling, I forgot as well and took a note to do it on friday next time before leaving)
<kenvandine> indeed, with a long weekend it can be hard to remember what you did :)
<kenvandine> anything else?
<seb128> I don't think so
<kenvandine> going... going...
<Trevinho> all good here
<seb128> the mid-cycle sprint is going well so far, no surprise nor change of plans
<kenvandine> yay
<seb128> bonjourno Trevinho  :)
<kenvandine> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan 21 14:59:45 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2020/ubuntu-desktop.2020-01-21-14.34.moin.txt
<seb128> looks like a wrap then
<Trevinho> hi seb128
<seb128> thanks kenvandine !
<didrocks> thx!
<hellsworth> thanks!
<oSoMoN> thanks
<bittin> Any Desktop Team Meeting today in 9 minutes ?
<marcustomlinson> bittin: meeting is 14:30 UTC every Tuesday
<marcustomlinson> I probably didn't make that clear last time :P
<marcustomlinson> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2020/ubuntu-desktop.2020-01-21-14.34.moin.txt
<bittin> marcustomlinson: ah sorry thanks :)
<bittin> marcustomlinson: done reading now there was also a Firefox bugfix build today 72.0.2 but i am sure you are aware: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/72.0.2/releasenotes/
<bittin> cya next week
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-01-22
<pieq> Morning desktoppers!
<pieq> And thanks and congrats, duflu ! â https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/01/its-not-your-eyes-its-a-bug-why-hq-desktop-backgrounds-look-blurry-on-ubuntu
<duflu> Morning pieq
<duflu> Not sure any congrats are in order, but good morning
<pieq> duflu, is this by any chance related to this other issue? https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-control-center/issues/704
<gitbot> GNOME issue 704 in gnome-control-center "Background: Previews render blurry on scale_factor > 1" [1. Bug, 6. Component: Background, Opened]
<pieq> duflu, also, how did you find out the method you implemented was also used by Youtube? :)
<duflu> pieq, no I noticed the issue in gnome-control-center but it's completely different code
<pieq> OK
<duflu> pieq, just spent too much time staring at web images and wondering why they always looking higher res than ours
<duflu> -looking +looked
<duflu> Then checked the youtube page source and images to confirm
<pieq> duflu, oh I just saw someone mentioned â https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-control-center/merge_requests/517
<gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 517 in gnome-control-center "background: Scale background images to window scale" [6. Component: Background, Opened]
<duflu> pieq, yeah duplicates exist but I don't have the authority to close them
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<duflu> Morning didrocks and oSoMoN
<duflu> and seb128
<seb128> hey duflu , how are you today?
<duflu> seb128, aching and tired. Feel like I'm getting a virus but still half OK. How are you now?
<didrocks> hey duflu
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<seb128> xnox, Wimpress , the sound switcher has been requested upstream there https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/314 but didn't get much traction
<gitbot> GNOME issue 314 in gnome-shell "Allow quickly switch between sound outputs from volume indicator" [Opened]
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<mwhudson> oSoMoN: rustc and cargo updated in focal now, will work on backports tomorrow
<mwhudson> cargo will be a little bit annoying because of libgit2 but i'll figure it out
<oSoMoN> mwhudson, thanks a lot!
<Laney> seb128: do you have a commit for ubuntu-settings 19.10.4 to push?
<Laney> ;_;
<jibel> Laney, bug 1860565
<ubot5> bug 1860565 in ubuntu-settings (Ubuntu Bionic) "Remove ubuntu-web-launchers from 18.04.4" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1860565
<Laney> cheers!!!!!
<jibel> talking about 18.04.4 bug 1860559 is fairly important
<ubot5> bug 1860559 in linux (Ubuntu Bionic) "[18.04.4] System fails to reboot after installation" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1860559
<jibel> looks like a gift of kernel 5.3 to bionic
<seb128> Laney, not here, sorry, maybe/probably on my desktop...
<Laney> nm
<Laney> import-dsc for the win
<seb128> right :)
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers!
<marcustomlinson> morning hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi marcustomlinson !
<hellsworth> i'm ready to learn all the LO things today :D
<oSoMoN> hey hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi oSoMoN !
<marcustomlinson> :)
<seb128> tjaalton, hey, do you plan to update mesa to 19.3.2 to focal soon? I'm trying to figure out how we unblock that update/the openscad/s390x problem
<seb128> tjaalton, before we spend time debugging getting the current version/a rebuild with the current toolchain would give us useful info on the status
<tjaalton> seb128: there should be a new point-release rsn
<seb128> waiting on that?
<tjaalton> yes
<seb128> k
<tjaalton> though I guess it doesn't matter
<tjaalton> I've used 19.3.2 myself for a week now
<tjaalton> so might as well upload that to the archive
<seb128> tjaalton, thx, it's likely to not leave proposed by itself anyway ... let's see how it goes
<tjaalton> should be building now, or soon
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-01-23
<jibel> good morning all
<duflu> Morning jibel
<jibel> Hi duflu, how are you?
<duflu> jibel, better than yesterday at least. How are you?
<jibel> duflu, I'm alright, rested and ready for the day :)
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<jibel> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut jibel
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN , how are you?
<seb128> night was better?
<duflu> Hi seb128
<oSoMoN> seb128, yeah, much better, and everyone going to school/daycare today, productive day ahead :)
<seb128> oSoMoN, excellent -)
<seb128> hey duflu , how are you?
<duflu> seb128, better than yesterday. How are you?
<seb128> duflu, I'm good, feeling better, even though I'm still coughing
<ricotz> good morning!
<duflu> Morning ricotz
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> lut didrocks comment Ã§a va ?
<ricotz> hey duflu, seb128, didrocks
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hi
<didrocks> salut seb128, nuit difficile, mais sinon Ã§a va, et toi ?
<didrocks> hey ricotz
<seb128> didrocks, ca va un peu mieux, tjs pas au top mais c'est dÃ©jÃ  Ã§a :)
<Laney> moin
<didrocks> hey Laney
<jibel> xnox, hi, could you have a look at bug 1860559 ? It's the same you fixed in eoan by adding finalrd
<ubot5> bug 1860559 in linux (Ubuntu Bionic) "[18.04.4] System fails to reboot after installation" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1860559
<jibel> but in bionic it's in univese
<jibel> universe
<oSoMoN> hey ricotz, what's up?
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<ricotz> oSoMoN, just saying, hi ;)
<ricotz> hey Laney
<duflu> Morning Laney
<oSoMoN> :)
<marcustomlinson> did everyone drop off freenode just now?
<marcustomlinson> I think I may have said morning to an empty channel earlier :P
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers!
<didrocks> marcustomlinson: everyone or you dropping off :p
<oSoMoN> mornin' marcustomlinson
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN. duflu
<marcustomlinson> haha, probably just me then
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson , how are you today?
<marcustomlinson> seb128: good thanks, you?
<seb128> marcustomlinson, I'm feeling better, just having a lasting cough now, I've a feel it's going to me still a while to shake that off :-/
<seb128> well at least I feel better :)
<seb128> sprint is going good as well
<marcustomlinson> seb128: good and good :)
<marcustomlinson> seb128: let's hope you don't get quarantined for coronavirus on your way back into EU
<oSoMoN> ricotz, it looks like mw_hudson has rustc 1.39 almost done, and cargo 0.40 is done already
<seb128> yeah, but should be fine, I've no fever or anything like that now :)
<mwhudson> oSoMoN: i am still here!
<mwhudson> oSoMoN: but i should be going to bed
<mwhudson> oSoMoN: https://launchpad.net/~mwhudson/+archive/ubuntu/rust-stuff/+packages <- it's so close
<oSoMoN> hey mwhudson! IÂ didn't want to highlight you unnecessarily, seeing that everything is looking good
<mwhudson> oSoMoN: fair enough :)
<oSoMoN> thanks for working on these updates
<ricotz> oSoMoN, mwhudson, great! \o/
<Trevinho> tjaalton: hey, could you please have a look at https://salsa.debian.org/sssd-team/pam-wrapper/merge_requests/1 (it looks like you did the patch I intended to fix, but that triggered other changes)
<gitbot> Debian SSSD packaging issue (Merge request) 1 in pam-wrapper "Split libpam_wrapper and libpamtest packages, fix wrong linking" [Opened]
<tjaalton> Trevinho: ok. btw, it doesn't use gbp, so no tarball imports nor upstream/ tags
<hellsworth> good morning folks!
<tjaalton> I never do that, if upstream has a proper git repo
<Trevinho> tjaalton: ok, well if you just push a tag (or the one I've in my repo) it's enough to make it compile by gbp
<tjaalton> it has the debian/ tag
<Trevinho> tjaalton: yeah, but when using gbp buildpackage... it complains of no upstream/1.0.7 tag
<Trevinho> so I added it and works flawlessy.
<tjaalton> shrug :)
<Trevinho> so it's the only thing to maintain... but well as you wish. My point was just fixing the pkg eventually, up to you the vcs
<tjaalton> sure
<seb128> tjaalton, seems like the mesa update/rebuild didn't make a difference on s390x :( any chance you could try to poke a bit to see what's broken and where it should be reported?
<tjaalton> I'll file it upstream
<tjaalton> and try to repro it on debian
<tjaalton> (on the s390x porterbox)
<gQuigs> are we thinking of dropping Adobe Flash package for Focal?  (discourse post is https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-20-04-and-flash/13814)
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-01-24
<duflu> jamesh, Morning. Are you able to answer bug 1781428?
<ubot5> bug 1781428 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu Bionic) "please enable snap mediation support" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1781428
<jamesh> looking
<vicky> Trevinho: ping
<duflu> Morning seb128
<duflu> and good morning ricotz
<ricotz> good morning desktoppers
<ricotz> hey duflu seb128
<seb128> hey duflu , ricotz , happy friday! how are you?
<duflu> seb128, going well. Got a lot done, just finished answering code reviews from last night and Monday is a holiday
<duflu> You?
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> happy Friday!
<didrocks> good morning oSoMoN, Happy Friday!
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN and didrocks
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, hey duflu
<didrocks> hey duflu
<seb128> duflu, I'm good, a bit tired but it's friday so it's ok I guess?
<seb128> though I'm going to spend the next night in a plane, probably not going to rest a lot
<duflu> ð¤·
<didrocks> salut seb128
<duflu> At least plane travel is a mental break. That counts
<seb128> lut didrocks , bon vendredi ! ca va ? la nuit a Ã©tÃ© meilleure ?
<didrocks> seb128: oui, bien mieux, merci !
<seb128> cool
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<Wimpress> Morning o/
<marcustomlinson> hey oSoMoN seb128 duflu didrocks Wimpress
<duflu> Morning Wimpress
<seb128> hey Wimpress, how are you?
 * Wimpress looks at seb128 
<oSoMoN> mornin' Wimpress
<seb128> lut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<didrocks> hey Wimpress
<tjaalton> duflu: the reason why nvidia 304 isn't available anymore is that it doesn't support the xserver in bionic..
<tjaalton> so installing it doesn't help
<duflu> tjaalton, yeah I expected as much
<duflu> Anyway it's now Friday night
<seb128> duflu, have a nice w.e!
<tjaalton> I'll reply to the bug
<duflu> I think I already backtracked and said maybe don't try 304
<tjaalton> ah
<tjaalton> right
<seb128> didrocks, the new override you added to ubuntu-settings, is that a new key? I get a warning that the key doesn't exists so the override is ignored
<Trevinho> tjaalton: I realized we were also missing these patches https://salsa.debian.org/sssd-team/pam-wrapper/merge_requests/2 , sorry I didn't realize before the other upload... :/
<gitbot> Debian SSSD packaging issue (Merge request) 2 in pam-wrapper "Fix crash in pam wrapper" [Opened]
<tjaalton> k
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers!
<ricotz> hellsworth, hi
<hellsworth> hi ricotz !
<oSoMoN> have a good week-end everyone!
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-01-26
<xclaesse> Hi, I gave a try to Ubuntu 20.04, and I see tracker is now installed by default. I see no UI to tell which folder to ignore (git clones), tracker-preferences seems gone.  and apt remote tracker also wants to ubuntu-desktop and nautilus.... can it be downgraded to recommend instead of depend so we can remove that useless CPU killer ?
<xclaesse> Also noticed that gtk file chooser now perform recursive search on typeahead. Unlike nautilus, there is no option to disable that. It makes the file chooser completely unusable for me, I've got 450G of source code in my home, so browsing in the file chooser make it use 200% CPU for several minutes...
<JanC> xclaesse: now imagine if your files would be on a network share...
<JanC> you can remove tracker-miner-fs & such
<JanC> that removes the main useless CPU killer, I suppose
<xclaesse> JanC I don't see such option
<xclaesse> meanwhile, tracker-extract has been 100% CPU for many hours already
<JanC> xclaesse: I mean remove that package
<xclaesse> JanC that removes nautilus and ubuntu-desktop too
<xclaesse> it's hard dep
<xclaesse> must be downgraded to recommended asap IMHO
<JanC> oh, well, I stopped using nautilus, so I probably didn't see that...  :-/
<xclaesse> yep, I guess nobody uses nautilus
<xclaesse> but still, I would strongly recommend ubuntu desktop team to NOT install tracker or at the very least have UI to disable it, and allow uninstall the package
<JanC> I used to like nautilus, until they started to maim all its useful features...
<xclaesse> it is a massive regression from 18.04 for me at least
<JanC> it's nautilus that requires the FS miner
<JanC> not sure why...
<xclaesse> this is serious IMHO, reported the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1860932
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1860932 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Remove dependency on tracker" [Undecided,New]
<JanC> xclaesse: the dependency also exists in 19.10 BTW (and maybe earlier?)
<xclaesse> I come from 18.04
<xclaesse> I usually only use LTS versions, but just got a new laptop and got kernel issues, 20.04 seems to have them fixed already (still testing that)
<JanC> an alternative is to replace nautilus with something useful  :)
<xclaesse> I would also strongly recommend picking this patch I just made to disable recursive search in gtk file chooser: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/merge_requests/1356
<gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 1356 in gtk "GtkSearchEngineSimple: Disable recursive search" [Opened]
<xclaesse> without that, type ahead in file chooser result in 200% CPU usage for severa minutes
<xclaesse> when you have many files in your HOME
<JanC> or locks up the network if you are on a network share probably?
<xclaesse> I would hope it's smart enough to skip network volumes, but probably it's that dumb, yes
<JanC> not always obvious to detect network volumes (e.g. when they are implemented using FUSE)
<xclaesse> bbl
