#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-12
<gNewPower> A neighbor of mine is using Windoze XP.  He forgot his admin password.  I tried re-setting it with a Ubuntu live-CD using the "chntpw" application only to find out that it was not more in the Ubuntu repos.  What application in the latest version of Ubuntu can I use to reset this WXP password?
<ajmitch> gNewPower: it should be there in multiverse
<lapo> hi
<pochu> good morning
<vuntz> pochu: I believe xpm icons are fine in desktop files
<pochu> ah, good to know
<vuntz> although not recommended :-)
<pochu> heh
<pochu> what about xdg-su? :)
<pochu> ember: ^ regarding .xpm icons
<vuntz> pochu: no idea about xdg-utils
<pochu> vuntz: ok, thanks for the info. I may ask on the list about xdg-su
<pochu> I guess since it's all about a cross-desktop menu, a cross-desktop su wrapper makes sense :)
<ember> pochu thanks
<ember> i end looking for some packages and find out that
<d0xda> there's a problem with the wubi at ubuntu 8.04
<marnanel> what is the wubi?
<dsas> marnanel: Windows based installer.
<dsas> d0xda: I think you're in the wrong channel. If you have found a bug then please file a bug on launchpad.net
<d0xda> what if i need IRC help instantly? anybody that can help me? channel?
<Keybuk> #ubuntu
<d0xda> any other channels? that one is very busy
<johanbr> You can try a county-specific ubuntu channel.
<d0xda> okay
<d0xda> thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-13
<dholbach> good morning
<huats> morning everyone
<ember> hey
<pochu> lool: thanks for the Vinagre upload :)
<pochu> seb128: could you please sync vinagre 2.23.2-1 from incoming.d.o?
<seb128> pochu: I'm too lazy to do incoming syncing, will do that later when it's available on the mirrors, there is no hurry ;-)
<seb128> pochu: you package 2.23 for debian already?
<pochu> seb128: yup :)
<pochu> seb128: but that's for experimental
<seb128> good luck handling the bug load going with early unstable versions ;-)
<pochu> .2 fixes a bug for which there's a request to get it into Hardy (and has a debdiff attached)
<pochu> the one somebody asked you about it because it introduces a couple of strings
<pochu> heh, thanks, but it's in experimental so hopefully not many people uses it :)
<seb128> the ctrl-alt-del menu item bug?
<pochu> seb128: yup
<seb128> pochu: did you work on an hardy update for this one?
<pochu> bug 199116
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 199116 in vinagre "Can not send 'Ctrl+Alt+Del'" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199116
<pochu> seb128: no, but someone else did and attached a debdiff to the report
<pochu> seb128: BTW, 2.23.2 needs gtk-vnc 0.3.6 which needs to go though binary NEW
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I'm still focusing on hardy but I'll start looking at the GNOME merges and updates after uds I think
<pochu> slangasek asked in the bug report to fix it in Intrepid first, so with this sync we should be done
<pochu> I was looking at pygobject FTBFS yesterday, and spent about 2 hours on it, and I finally realize it was still failing to build because of a bug in my shell...
<pochu> I think I got the bug fixed, but couldn't check it
<pochu> has someone noticed that bash-completion doesn't work properly for some cases? I think that was related as the build failures where syntax issues
<pochu> I even tried building Vinagre 0.5 and other things and they all failed
<pitti> seb128: I've got a question: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/229866/comments/4
<pochu> 'dpkg -L libgtk<tab>' completes to 'dpkg -L libgtk^[\[m^[\[K^[\[m^[\[K'
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229866 in gdm "2.20.6 stable update" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<pochu> it could also be that I've messed up my .bashrc or something like that... I'll try with a new user and see if that's still happening
<pitti> seb128: (added a further comment)
<seb128> pitti: looking
<seb128> pitti: the commit log on http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gdm?view=revision&revision=6167 has some details
<seb128> pitti: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=509141 comment #15 too
<ubottu> Gnome bug 509141 in general "GDM does not honor LC_DATE" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<pitti> seb128: right, I saw that; I mean the G_BROKEN_FILENAMES removal
<pitti> ah, that was the same commit
<pitti> seb128: right, so they suggest that we set this in our distro specific Xsession.common?
<seb128> pitti: G_BROKEN_FILENAMES is something to set when you don't use an utf-8 locale
<pitti> seb128: which is not our default, but many people still have that (unfortunately)
<seb128> well, I've rebooted with the new version
<seb128> but this one should not be set on systems using an UTF-8 locale
<seb128> I'm wondering if that was really set
<seb128> do you have it defined?
<pitti> seb128: would that be in /etc/gdm/Xsession ?
<lool> seb128: The new vinagre versions don't seem that disruptive
<lool> pochu: Could you comment on that ::1/localhost bug?  I tried reproducing it, but I couldn't with the latest vinagre
<pitti> seb128: ok, grep -r G_BROKEN_FILE /etc doesn't deliver anything
<lool> (I could connect to localhost and to ::1 just fine)
<seb128> pitti: we install debian/Xsession
<pitti> seb128: when you install the new .deb, do you actually get a 'installing new conffile' note?
<pitti> seb128: aah
<seb128> pitti: so the change doesn't make a difference for us
<pitti> seb128: alright then, thank you!
<seb128> pitti: thank *you* for being careful when checking uploads ;-)
<pochu> lool: I don't know anything about IPv6, but I asked jwendell (upstream of both vino and vinagre) and he told me that was a known issue and that it will be fixed in 2.24
<pochu> lool: wait, let me check it
<pochu> lool: reproduced here
<pochu> lool: in Hardy, BTW
<pochu> (vinagre 0.5.1)
<pochu> lool: but that should be a vino bug
<ember_> pochu do you have an example of a simple python package not using the default setup.py on install?
<pochu> ember: decibel-audio-player uses a simple Makefile, and scribes uses autotools. Are any of them ok?
<ember> well this one just uses "python install.py" for installing
<pochu> ember: is install.py a distutils script?
<pochu> if so, you can point to it in debian/rules (if using CDBS) with 'DEB_PYTHON_SETUP_CMD := install.py'
<pochu> (https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml)
<ember> no, is just a .py to check modules and with os.system("cp") to install py
<pochu> heh
<pochu> you can call it in the install rule
<ember> hmm i'm gonna try packaging this one
<mneptok> what a wonderful day.
<seb128> hey mneptok
<mneptok> heya seb
<mneptok> for those with GNOME access and personal keys they no longer trust, please update your system, re-generate keys, and send mail to accounts@gnome.org with the subject "replace Debian/Ubuntu key"
<mneptok> my day is going to suck, but i'll try to stay on top of key change requests @gnome.org caused by this.
 * seb128 hugs mneptok ;-)
<pedro_> niiice
<pedro_> thanks mneptok :-)
<mneptok> no promises, as i haven't talked to Zaid about watching GNOME.
<seb128> mneptok: could you give an hint of what keys should not be trusted for those who are not security wizards there? ;-)
<mneptok> but then i can guess the sabdfl's wishes, i think.
<mneptok> if you are 100% absolutely certain you generated your SSH key on a Dapper or prior Ubuntu installation, do nothing.
<mneptok> otherwise, you'll want to replace all your SSH keys, wherever they live.
<mneptok> the updates today will check host-wide keys and re-generate them. expect hostkey change warnings from ~/.ssh/known_hosts
<mneptok> but the packages do nothing vis-a-vis personal keys. please re-generate and get those to GNOME first. ;)
<pochu> lool: I've tracked it down to GREP_OPTIONS="--color=always", with --color=auto (or without it) my shell works fine again. Seems to be Debian bug #414798
<ubottu> pochu: Error: Could not parse data returned by Debian: timed out
<pochu> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=414798
 * pochu tries to build pygobject now
<ubottu> pochu: Error: Could not parse data returned by Debian: timed out
<pochu> bah, I'm too stupid to be able to run autoreconf on pygobject
<pochu> or pygobject is too b0rked
 * jdavies hugs poor pochu 
<pochu> :-)
<pochu> seb128: I guess we still want 61_dont_use_setwakeupfd.patch in pygobject? that's our last diff
<pochu> There's at least http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=471528 and http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=471559 making it hard to run autoreconf there
<ubottu> Gnome bug 471528 in general "m4 macros needed to rebuild configure aren't shipped with 2.13.x" [Minor,Unconfirmed]
<mneptok> awalton__: check e-mail please
<awalton__> mneptok, thanks for the quick response!
<mneptok> everybody visualize happy upstreams ...
<mneptok> awalton__: give things 90m to populate
<awalton__> no problem. just have to figure out everywhere else I was using that key.. terrible memory :-/
<seb128> pochu: upstream fixed the issue I think, would be nice to get the fix rather
<pochu> nice
 * pochu hopes it doesn't touch autotools :)
<pochu> seb128: do you know what commit or a bug# ? looking at http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/pygobject/trunk/?view=log the last commit mentioning that is 4 months old
<seb128> pochu: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=481569
<ubottu> Gnome bug 481569 in gtk "Calling gobject.threads_init() causes a lot of wakeups" [Normal,Reopened]
<pochu> ah, right, thanks
<seb128> pochu: looks like they didn't commit the change yet
<seb128> so either backport those or still use the change
<pochu> I'll try to latest patch
<pochu> s/to/the/
<lool> pochu: I have --color=auto
<soren> python-gtk2-dev seems to be uninstallable on the intrepid buildd's. Is this known? There's no bug about it, but I'd be rather surprised if I was the first to hit it.
<soren> ..or is there perhaps something I need to change in my package? (build log: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14502657/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-amd64.virt-manager_0.5.4-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz )
<geser> soren: I've seen many packages FTBFS because of this, but didn't look deeper into this
<soren> geser: Ok, thanks.
<mneptok> awalton__: back in the game?
<awalton__> I should be, I need to check in a bit
<awalton__> my internet's acting really flaky
<pochu> soren: I'm looking into that. Guess I should file a bug report
<pochu> soren: that's because libffi4 was removed. Rebuilding it against latest pygobject will make the libffi dependency to dissapear. But pygobject FTBFS. I'm working on that
<soren> pochu: Ah, great.
<pochu> I hope to get it ready for upload by tomorrow...
<pochu> It's late here :)
<soren> Yeah, same here :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-14
 * mneptok tucks in the Europeans
<soren> Ta.
<mneptok> try counting sheep.
<mneptok> and please, use real random numbers.
<soren> 9 is random, right?
<mneptok> not if this is a Beatles album
<bhale> she said she's taking the one after 909
<mneptok> We got child-proof containers. We got "Use only as directed." Inspected by *Number 9*! Well, it *seems* like he checked it. - The Dandy Warhols
<dholbach> good morning
<huats> morning everyone
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> plop seb128
 * mpt scowls at the "system your system your system your system" bubble
<andreasn> mpt: heya
<mpt> brb
<ember> heya
<awalton__> mneptok, so yesterday's fix was no good
<awalton__> mneptok, my old key still works, my new one doesn't.
<Hobbsee> hmmm.  now i'm sure that hitting 'set' on the consolekit prompt for changing the default timezone on the world clock should appear at the front, as well as taking focus.
<seb128> Hobbsee: what do you mean at the front? that's a button, not a dialog
<seb128> ah, consolekit prompt, I might have credential already and not get this one
<Hobbsee> seb128: hit the button, then you get the dialog :)
<Hobbsee> unfortunately, it shows up *behind* the world clock
<seb128> Hobbsee: no I don't, but I might have the credential as said, it just do it for me
<Hobbsee> and you can't click anything else until you feed it a p/w, or hit OK 3 times, so it errors out.
<Hobbsee> yeah, probably
<corrosion1> ï»¿could someone help me ::: i have installed ubuntu 8 amd64 on my server, ide ata hard drive but after a success install it boots to invalid disk, press any key after inserting proper boot media. any ideas? its like it is not installing grub or anything.
<corrosion1> liver rather
<ted2> Is there anyone sitting around thinking "I wish there was some packages I could sponsor"? :)
<ted2> I have a couple of Intrepid merges.
<fta> seb128, oops, forgot to give you the debdiff for cairo. http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/debdiff/cairo_1.6.0-0ubuntu1--1.6.4-1ubuntu1.debdiff (only debian/*) or http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/debdiff/cairo_1.6.0-0ubuntu1--1.6.4-1ubuntu1--full.debdiff (full)
<seb128> fta: thanks
<fta> pochu, u here ? are you working on python-gobject ?
<fta> seb128, I've had a look at the mess with python and libffi4 in intrepid, it seems we just need a respin of pygobject (to get rid of libffi4 coming from ${shlibs:Depends}). there's no merge pending.
<fta> then, there's an easy merge of pygtk
<fta> hm, cairo failed. it was fine here.
<seb128> fta: I don't have an intrepid installation yet so I didn't try the build, let me look
<fta> it's the symbol file.
<seb128> fta: doko was supposed to fix pygobject, maybe ask him about it
<fta> oh, it's a powerpc ftbfs only
<fta> i'll fix it once all arches are done
<seb128> fta: maybe you could try to send a bug to the debian bts about use the -c4 option too?
<fta> just had a look at their logs, they got that too but not fatal (no -c4) so at least i'm not crazy ;)
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-15
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey huats
<huats> hey dholbach
<huats> :)
<huats> morning everyone
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-16
<pochu> slomo, asac: would be nice if any of you could sponsor bug 228827
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 228827 in liferea "Please merge liferea-1.4.15-1 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/228827
<pochu> slomo, asac: nevermind, that debdiff still has some issues
<asac> pochu: ok. let me know when you think its ready
<huats> moring everyone
<huats> hey asac
<asac> hi huats
<huats> asac: still not in Prague
<huats> ?
<asac> huats: i am here ;)
<asac> in prague
<huats> hÃ©hÃ©
<huats> :)
<ember> seb128 and pedro_ should bug #188732 really be milestoned? it was mark invalid upstream and the patches aren't upstream
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 188732 in gnome-terminal "Blinking cursor can not be deactivated anymore" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188732
<seb128> yes
<seb128> it's something which is creating issues and that we should look at solving
<seb128> upstream marked it invalid because they are commenting on the wrong bug, I talk with the guy who closed the bug, they agree that's an issue to fix though
<ember> cool, because the patch on that url seems more a workaround than a real fix
 * Hobbsee waves
<Hobbsee> mvo!
 * Hobbsee randomly covers mvo and the rest of the people at the UDS in kittens.
<seb128> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya seb128!
 * mvo hugs Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :D
<seb128> pitti: gvfs evolution-data-server gnome-system-monitor evolution nautilus gnome-panel gnome-settings-daemon glib2.0 gnome-desktop totem-pl-parser gdm glade-3
<seb128> pitti: 181387 192195 198167 220608
<pochu> 49MB of updates (-security and -updates) after a clean installation... I was expecting more after all this SRUs :-)
<pochu> gnome-app-install should have a "fits nice in GNOME" filter :-)
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-17
<pitti> seb128: ah, did you see the updates to bug 208467? great analysis, and even a proposed patch
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 208467 in nautilus "Camera Device button "Open F-spot Photo Manager" doesn't work" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208467
<seb128> pitti: yeah, I read the comments there, the duplicate menu item is a known issue, the fix is wrong though (changing the naming), we used the same naming to not break translations but only the import one should be listed
<seb128> pitti: I need to think about the %u not being correct though
<pitti> seb128: I think hacking the shell code is bad, we should rather fix f-spot-import to DTRT (like f-spot --import does)
<pitti> seems to be more robust
<pitti> but at least we now know where to poke
<seb128> right
<mpt_> pitti, I reported bug 231436 about what making apport appear in stable releases
<seb128> mpt: bad idea
<mpt> seb128, why?
<seb128> mpt: and no such bug number in launchpad
<mpt> sorry, bug 231326
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 231326 in apport "Crashed programs are explained/reopenable in development but not stable releases" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/231326
<mpt> (had my hand in the wrong place)
<seb128> mpt: because it eats ressources and stable users rapport mostly issues which have been reported during the unstable cycle already
<mpt> seb128, I'm not talking about reporting bugs
<seb128> ok, just read the bug
<seb128> I agree with that ;-)
<mpt> :-)
<seb128> but keep #3 masked there
<mpt> yep
<pitti> mpt: thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-11
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> didrocks: did you see the vte FTBFS due to the wrong python path? can you work on this?
<didrocks> pitti: yes, I will do it tonight
<didrocks> Hi everybody o/
<seb128> hello didrocks
<seb128> didrocks: do what?
<didrocks> seb128: vte is ftbfs du to python path changes in karmic apparently (it was building successfully in jaunty)
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> seb128: I did gnome-python and ready for review
<seb128> yeah I noticed thanks
<didrocks> seb128: for gnome-python-extras, I was wondering about one thing
<seb128> I'm catching up with weekend emails first then will do reviews
<didrocks> seb128: ok, we will discuss that later so :)
<didrocks> just ping me
<seb128> we can discuss that now
<didrocks> ok, it was about the patch 04_use_PYTHON-config_check.patch
<seb128> I'm just no doing review now ;-)
<didrocks> is it still usefull?
<didrocks> it just add checking for more than one revision of Python, right?
<seb128> not sure what is was doing
<seb128> that was to not hard depend on a specific python version?
<didrocks> maybe. Without it, it's building against python 2.5 and 2.6
<didrocks> seb128: that's why I put the merge in ~didrocks/python-gnome-extras/ubuntu
<seb128> ok, I will have a look later
<seb128> ideally the issue should be reported to debian if the bug is still there
<didrocks> I just left a comment in the changelog, but didn't integrate it, waiting for some thoughts :)
<didrocks> yes, I checked and found nothing
<seb128> what was the rational to add the patch? it should be explained in the changelog entry?
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> morning everyone
<huats> seb128hello !
<didrocks> hello huats
<huats> hey didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: no, it's not, regarding the changelog, there is just: "- debian/patches/01_use_PYTHON-config_check.dpatch
<didrocks> it's listed on a merge against debian, and nothing more :/
<seb128> let me look
<didrocks> ok
<seb128> didrocks: I guess it has been added in this version https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-python-extras/2.14.2-1ubuntu2
<didrocks> "acinclude.m4: Fix PYTHON_INCLUDES; run autoreconf -i
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> so, I will ask doko
<seb128> didrocks: I think it's needed to get the correct interpreter for the dbg build
<didrocks> seb128: I don't really get it. We use python-config because the other one can't get the correct interpreter for debug packages?
<seb128> PYTHON_INCLUDES="-I${py_prefix}/include/python${PYTHON_VERSION}"
<seb128> is what upstream use
<seb128> didrocks: see http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=448173
<ubottu> Gnome bug 448173 in general "use python-config to get python includes" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<didrocks> seb128: ok, so. python-config is best to used than usual inclusion. Especially for dbg packages :)
<didrocks> thanks ;)
<seb128> didrocks: well, the hardcoded upstream variant doesn't have a case for dbg
<didrocks> seb128: so, I will report a debian on GNOME bt
<didrocks> s/debian/bug
<seb128> don't bother with debian
<seb128> open an upstream one, debian will get it in the next version
<seb128> or do it if you send the change for dbg packages there
<didrocks> yes, that's what I meant :)
<seb128> but you might have to send some other gnome-python dbg changes before that
<didrocks> I might have to send other dbg changes?
<seb128> python-gnome2-extras-dbg depends on python-gnome2-desktop-dbg and there is no python-gnome2-desktop-dbg in debian
<seb128> so gnome-python-desktop needs to get a dbg variant first
<seb128> and gnome-python too
<seb128> chain of depends ...
<seb128> to get a -dbg working you need all the depends to have a -dbg variant
<didrocks> seb128: of course. So, I have some work to do on python-gnome2-desktop :)
<robert_ancell> seb128: pitti: can you guys tell me what I'm supposed to do about bug 372592?  I thought it was ok to SRU these changes or should I just abort it.  The SRU request is to update to the latest stable version - is this appropriate?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 372592 in totem "Update to Totem 2.26.2" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372592
<seb128> yeah, that one will not be trivial
<seb128> they splitted everything
<seb128> don't bother splitted the -dbg I would say
<seb128> debian want to use one -dbg by source
<seb128> hello robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> seb128: morning seb
<seb128> robert_ancell: what pitti wrote there is "use the bugs for issues fixed in this version"
<seb128> ie bug #368252
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368252 in totem "Totem firefox plugin can't launch apple HD trailers" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368252
<seb128> or bug #366647 or bug #362820
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 366647 in totem "subtitle not re-loaded when totem restart" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/366647
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 362820 in totem "totem-plugin-viewer crashed with SIGSEGV in strchr()" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/362820
<robert_ancell> so I should SRU each of those?
<seb128> use one of those for the sru
<seb128> no, just use one of those to add the debdiff etc
<seb128> I'm not sure why pitti has this policy now but that doesn't make much of a difference
<seb128> rather than using the new version bug for the paper work use on the other bugs
<seb128> open jaunty tasks for each issue the sru fix, add the debdiff to one of the bugs, subscribe ubuntu-sru to each bug
<didrocks> seb128: ok. So, we wait for debian to do it in its own way, or do we go ahead and do it in the "ubuntu way"?
<robert_ancell> ok. I'm a bit confused by the process though considering you can only accept the whole update or none of it.
<seb128> didrocks: gni?
<seb128> robert_ancell: well, each bug concerned by the upgrade need to be confirmed as fixed and not creating new issues
<seb128> robert_ancell: what is confusing?
<didrocks> seb128: I'm a bit confused too by the "debian want to use one -dbg by source". But that's not what we do regarding those packages. So, I just add some -dbg for gnome-python-desktop binary packages?
<seb128> didrocks: gnome-python-desktop has been splitted in different binaries, rather than adding a -dbg for each one just do it directly the debian way, use one -dbg for the source
<robert_ancell> seb128: if there is no core bug for the update then it seems harder to link together.  It just feels backwards
<seb128> didrocks: that will mean less work for you and easier to get it accepted by debian
<seb128> robert_ancell: just make any of the fixed bugs the core one
<seb128> robert_ancell: usually one sru fixes one bug so we use this bug as the core one
<robert_ancell> seb128: And because it is a stable update it will include fixes that we don't have tracked
<seb128> robert_ancell: you happened to have a case where several bugs are fixed so you still do that but in extra open jaunty task for the other bugs so they can be tracked too
<didrocks> seb128: oh ok. understood :)
<seb128> robert_ancell: the sru procedure tries to ensure that each bug closed is properly fixed ... if you want to reduce paper work don't list all the bug numbers in the changelog but only the one you consider worth checking to make sure they work and don't break anything
<seb128> I'm not sure where pitti he could probably give you extra details on the current procedure and why the "new version" bug is incorrect
<didrocks> seb128: when you will have some time: I just have an issue with gnome-python-extras: running autoreconf output some cycling dependencies that I can't get fixed :/
<seb128> what do you mean?
<didrocks> seb128: to take into account the previous patch, I have to run autoreconf in 70_..
<didrocks> and there, I saw some "cycling dependencies" and it failed
<seb128> didrocks:  can you pastebin the error?
<didrocks> seb128: let me rebuild it on my server to get it (I just didn't copy it as I was unsure if we have to autoreconf it)
<seb128> didrocks: why do you autoreconf? autoconf should be enough for this python path thing?
<pitti> robert_ancell: no need to add the debdiff three times, but you need to justify each bug for SRU, describe impact, testing, and regression potential, and we will ask for verification on each bug
<pitti> robert_ancell: since the best people to tell us whether it's fixed are teh reporters/subscribers of those bugs
<pitti> seb128: we have always had this policy
<pitti> seb128: for hardy you just filed new bugs for new upstream microreleases when we didn't have "real" bugs in LP already
<seb128> pitti: I've been used "new version" bugs for srus before
<seb128> right
<pitti> seb128: and it makes a huge difference in terms of who will read the request for testing
<pitti> robert_ancell: if one of the bugs is not eligible for SRU, we'll reject teh entire upload
<seb128> they will read all the request for testing anyway
<pitti> robert_ancell: and be warned, priority: low bugs have a very small chance of being accepted
<seb128> and I think it makes sense to do some "new version testing" too in case of new versions
<pitti> robert_ancell: if it's not dealbreaker and causes totem to crash for every second movie, please don't SRU it
<didrocks> seb128: autoreconf is needed for aclocal.m4 patch (and autoconf does the same, btw)
<seb128> pitti: I think the upload is SRU worth, it makes apple trailers work again and fix some browser crasher
<robert_ancell> pitti: I don't think I can justify each bug by the SRU guidelines (at the time one or two seemed useful).  Now it is in Karmic it seems obvious that it should be requested as a backport.
<pitti> seb128: regressions are valid SRUs (shoudl be regression-release then)
<seb128> don't bother with backports
<pitti> +1 ^
<robert_ancell> seb128: interesting thing in this case - the regression was actually caused by Apple (they changed to a tag that totem didn't understand)
<robert_ancell> What is the position on using BZR packages now?  I was updating Glade which is not in BZR, can I create one?
<seb128> yes, feel free to add to bzr anything desktopish
<seb128> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr
<robert_ancell> seb128: (I remember you saying it was still a bit experimental when we were in London so not to push all the packages into it)
<robert_ancell> last question on my list: regarding gnome-games and clutter+libcanberra - I packaged 2.27.1 built using gstreamer and gnometris disabled.  I think we should go with that configuration for now and then decide at UDS what we do about clutter/sound.  Agree/disagree?
<seb128> agreed
<seb128> clutter will probably be an issue for CD space
<robert_ancell> sure
<didrocks> so, splitting gnome-games package?
<robert_ancell> didrocks: I guess we have to make a special case for gnometris for Karmic - it's going to get a whole lot more interesting Karmic+1 as there will be a lot more Clutter dependent games
<robert_ancell> what else on the desktop uses clutter?
<didrocks> robert_ancell: yes, and with gnome-shell, at the end, it seems that we will have no choice
<robert_ancell> those annoying gnome-games developers. Making life difficult for integrators.  Hang on... :)
<didrocks> hehe :)
<robert_ancell> gtg, see you guys tomorrow
<didrocks> seb128: here it is http://paste.ubuntu.com/169387/
<seb128> didrocks: ask to Keybuk maybe he has an idea about that
<didrocks> seb128: ok. I'm pinging him :)
<didrocks> pitti: I got it for vte. It's in the debian autoreconf patch that I haven't to generate. But I'm still wondering why it wasn't FTBFS in my jaunty pbuilder :/
<pitti> didrocks: you didn't have pkgbinarymangler installed
<pitti> it's a check in pkgsanitychecks
<didrocks> pitti: oh, I have maybe to install it as a pbuilder hook, don't you think?
<didrocks> pitti: is it possible to simulate it, even if I don't have rosetta? (It seems to be used for stripping translation)
<seb128> didrocks: rosetta has nothing to do with builds
<pitti> didrocks: no, it does more than that
<pitti> didrocks: just install it in the pbuilder, or your local system
<didrocks> ok, I give some test without fixing the issue to check it works at home :)
<pitti> didrocks: just dpkg -c the .debs to check for site-packages vs. dist-packages
<didrocks> pitti: I installed it with a hook in my pbuilder and yes, it wraps dh_builddeb (or a command that is called by it) and effectivelly, it FTBFS. I will keep this hook, thanks
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128 - you got any updates for me to work on later? ;)
<seb128> hello chrisccoulson
<seb128> chrisccoulson: want to resync gnome-panel or gnome-appets on debian?
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i can do those
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti
<seb128> excellent, they are for you then
<seb128> thanks
<chrisccoulson> you're welcome
 * seb128 still fighting bug emails from the weekend
<seb128> IRC and bug backlog will have taken the morning
<seb128> and I did read and reply to email twice this weekend
<seb128> chrisccoulson: btw I don't know if you read the backlog on friday but you should run for MOTU now ;-)
<lool> seb128: heya!
<lool> seb128: how is it going?
<seb128> hello lool
<seb128> good, lot to do as usual, and a bit too many bugs open for details to my taste but other good ;-)
<lool> Eh
<seb128> and you? did you have good holidays?
<lool> Yeah, it was nice to take some break
<lool> I'd like to discuss https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/283447 with you
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 283447 in netbook-remix "Undecorating maximised windows sometimes leaves a blank space below the window (Intrepid & Jaunty)" [High,Fix committed]
<lool> I just added the Ubuntu package task and the jaunty task
<lool> This bug is an important issue in UNR and is fixedin metacity 2.26.0
<lool> Do you mind if we move to 2.26.0 in karmic and jaunty?
<lool> Is anything preventing this update?
<seb128> no, just somebody having interest for the software
<seb128> I'm using compiz so didn't really bother and nobody else picked up on the task, talk to pitti perhaps about jaunty
<seb128> it's probably better to backport the change there than to update to a new version
<lool> seb128: So new version in karmic and backported fix in jaunty; will talk to pitti then, thanks!
<seb128> new version in karmic without any doubt
<pitti> lool: you need this to be an ubuntu sru for UNR?
<lool> pitti: Correct
<pitti> hmkay
<lool> pitti: UNR being Ubuntu jaunty's UNR
<lool> pitti: UNR is really in Ubuntu now
<pitti> yeah, understood
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128 - i did see your conversation with dholbach on friday
<chrisccoulson> i'll hopefully get around to applying this week if you think i should:)
<seb128> you should!
 * pitti puts on the "Chris Coulson for Pres^WMOTU!" badge
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> ok, time for some sponsoring now
<lool> Ah mvo is in holidays
<seb128> is he?
<lool> Yeah, whole week it seems
<seb128> we really need a VAC calendar we can add to e-d-s ;-)
<lool> "update-manager -c -d" works on my desktop but doesn't on a jaunty UNR install
<lool> ah was just flaky network
<crevette> hello, I've a small question how daniel did check there were missing files in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/372428 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 372428 in bluez "[karmic] please sponsor bluez-4.38" [Undecided,New]
<crevette> and furthermore, what the the test I should conduct to validate I don't break things
<Hobbsee> crevette: it's --list-missing as a switch, but i don't remember which tool it is.  it's dpkg-something
 * crevette tries dpkg-something :)
<crevette> dpkg-something should be a wrapper for all dpkg* tools :)
<pitti> Hobbsee, crevette: you mean dh_install --list-missing ?
<Hobbsee> pitti: yeah, that sounds right!
<crevette> pitti, is it possible to have it run in pbuilder in order to have a report at the end of the build ?
<pitti> crevette: you can certainly run it in debian/rules
<pitti> crevette: cdbs has an utils.mk for list-missing, too
<crevette> okay, I'll try tht, thanks
<chrisccoulson> is there any way of making dh_install --list-missing useful for packages that build multiple binaries? the last time I tried, it listed the missing files for each binary package in turn, and considered all files installed in one of the other binaries as missing for that particular package
<pitti> chrisccoulson: that works fine for me
<pitti> chrisccoulson: you just can't invoke it with -p, obviously
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks. i'll try again next time i need to do that and see if it works
<seb128> it doesn't work for multi-build packages, ie when you don't  install to debian/tmp for example
<seb128> ie that doesn't work for python packages which build for multiple version or for gtk+ which has a static, etc build
<chrisccoulson> thanks seb128. i think the last package i tried it on was tracker, and it didn't seem to work too well for that. i'll try it again as i'm looking at the 0.7.x packaging at the moment anyway and it would be useful for that
 * kenvandine_wk hopes this morning isn't a bad time to update :)
<pitti> kenvandine: not worse than any other morning :)
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> it worked
<kenvandine> pitti: did you get a share request from me today?
<pitti> kenvandine: by mail? no
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> any idea why there is kde stuff in my updates?
<pitti> oh?
 * kenvandine doesn't think he installed anything kde related :)
<pitti> what in particular?
<kenvandine> kdebase stuff
<pitti> might be a wrong new dependency
<kenvandine> that is what i am wondering
<pitti> kenvandine: if you just do apt-get upgrade, what does it hold back?
<kenvandine> let me try to remove it :)
<pitti> kenvandine: oh, it wanted to _upgrade_ kdebase, not newly install it?
<kenvandine> not sure, i was using update manager
<kenvandine> not apt-get
<kenvandine> not sure if it is easy to tell there
<pitti> don't think so
<seb128> pitti: do you have an opinion on code logic copy and copyright assignment?
<seb128> pitti: ie gnotes being a tomboy copy in c++ ... should the copyright list the tomboy authors?
<pitti> seb128: context?
<pitti> seb128: it's a total code rewrite?
<kenvandine> The following packages have been kept back:
<kenvandine>   f-spot gksu kdebase-runtime kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4 kdebase-workspace-dev kdebase-workspace-libs4+5 kdelibs-bin kdelibs5 kdelibs5-data kdelibs5-dev khelpcenter4
<kenvandine>   libkdecorations4 libkrb5-dev libkwineffects1 libltdl7 libphonon-dev libphonon4 libplasma3 libqt4-assistant libqt4-core libqt4-dbus libqt4-designer libqt4-dev libqt4-gui
<kenvandine>   libqt4-help libqt4-network libqt4-opengl libqt4-opengl-dev libqt4-qt3support libqt4-script libqt4-scripttools libqt4-sql libqt4-sql-mysql libqt4-svg libqt4-test
<kenvandine>   libqt4-webkit libqt4-xml libqt4-xmlpatterns libqtcore4 libqtgui4 libstartup-notification0 libstartup-notification0-dev linux-generic linux-headers-generic
<seb128> they basically take tomboy and copy line by line translating to c++
<kenvandine>   linux-image-generic linux-restricted-modules-generic openoffice.org-base-core openoffice.org-calc openoffice.org-common openoffice.org-core openoffice.org-draw
<kenvandine>   openoffice.org-gnome openoffice.org-gtk openoffice.org-impress openoffice.org-math openoffice.org-style-human openoffice.org-writer phonon phonon-backend-gstreamer
<seb128> kenvandine: grrrrr
<kenvandine>   python-uno qt4-qmake qt4-qtconfig
<kenvandine> whoops
<seb128> kenvandine: use pastebin please
<kenvandine> it was 2 lines :)
<kenvandine> sort of ... sorry
<pitti> seb128: hm, no idea I'm afraid; would certainly at least be nice to credit them
<seb128> update-manager doesn't install new packages or remove other binaries
<pitti> seb128: "system upgrade" does, though
<seb128> it does new installs but no removals
<kenvandine> i must have something installed that brought it in as a dep
<james_w> pitti: it's basically a line-by-line port for a lot of it. The tomboy authors didn't add headers to many of their files. Where they did they are preserved, but the other files only state (C) new author, which seems a bit wrong
<seb128> kenvandine: what is the question?
<pitti> james_w: I agree; even if it's legal, it's at least nasty
<kenvandine> seb128: i was just wondering if there as a bad dep bringing in new packages... or if it was something i had installed
<james_w> pitti: I don't see it as a reason to keep it out the archive though?
<kenvandine> just did an update today in karmic
<kenvandine> seb128: just verifying there wasn't a bug
<kenvandine> morning rickspencer3
<seb128> kenvandine: your log lists kept back packages
<seb128> hello rickspencer3
<pitti> james_w: that'd require a lawyer, I'm afraid
<kenvandine> seb128: that was just answering pitti's question
<rickspencer3> good morning kenvandine, seb128, pitti
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<seb128> kenvandine: oh ok, I read the backlog, try to apt-get remove those and see what else get uninstalled, could be a recommends which triggered those
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> but it's easier to track that before clicking yes
<james_w> pitti: ok, how should I proceed?
<pitti> james_w: perhaps ask elmo? he's got much more license/copyright experience than me
<james_w> pitti: ok, I'll mail him and CC ubuntu-archive?
<pitti> james_w: sounds good
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> pitti: also, there is a linux-ports-meta in the queue. Would you have a few minutes sometime today to walk me through that, or to process it yourself?
<james_w> seb128 is scared of the kernel ;-)
<seb128> indeed!
 * kenvandine needs more coffee... bbiaf
<Ampelbein> seb128: hi. thanks for the little correction on the gnome-utils patch. however, i get failed builds on sparc, hppa and armel. on sparc and armel it's because of the "warnings treated as errors" and some sloppy program code. but on hppa it reruns autoreconf for some reason and configure fails with a syntax error. See http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26573002/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-hppa.gnome-utils_2.27.1-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz for
<Ampelbein> this.
<seb128> Ampelbein: I would not bother about the hppa case for now but working on an update not using -Werror would be useful
<seb128> Ampelbein: the hppa case is probably a timestamp issue and autotools installed on the buildd machine, a retry on a clean install will probably work
<Ampelbein> seb128: how do i disable -Werror ? should i just pass '-Wno-error=*' to CFLAGS in debian/rules? i can't find where -Werror is defined in the first place.
<seb128> Ampelbein: configure.ac:        MAINTAINER_CFLAGS="-Werror -Wall -Wshadow -Wcast-align -Wno-uninitialized -Wformat-security -Winit-self"
<Ampelbein> seb128: ah, there it is. thanks. should i do a ubuntu2 for this?
<seb128> Ampelbein: I guess editing that line in the configure and updating autoconf should work
<seb128> Ampelbein: yes
<Ampelbein> ok will do
<seb128> thanks
<jbailey> pitti, What's mvo's excuse this time? ;)
<jbailey> Hi all ;)
<pitti> jbailey: he's on holiday
<seb128> he's on holidays for the week apparently
<jbailey> Bah! =)
<seb128> you can try dropping him an email though ;-)
<jbailey> Ah well.  /me sits on his hands and waits.
<jbailey> Nah, if he's on holidays I don't want to bug him.
<seb128> I'm not sure how good he's at not readin email during holidays ;-)
<jbailey> Most Canonical people are terrible at the best of times.
<jbailey> Having an email from a friend show up is almost a guarantee that it would get read.
<Ampelbein> seb128: bug 374889, branch linked.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 374889 in gnome-utils "FTBFS due to -Werror on sparc and armel architecture." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374889
<seb128_> ok
<Ampelbein> seb128: i think gnome-utils just got worse... now it even fails on i386 with the "syntax error" after rerunning autoconf on the build-daemon. See http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26586210/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.gnome-utils_2.27.1-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> Ampelbein: right
<seb128> I hate autotools
<Ampelbein> seb128: is this my fault?
<seb128> define "your" there ;-)
<seb128> it's a bug in the package yes
<Ampelbein> it worked on pbuilder so this must be a race condition.
<seb128> it is
<seb128> the autotools try to be clever
<seb128> if some timestamps are never than others they run autoconf or automake for you
<seb128> never -> newer
<jbailey> seb128, autotools are cuddly.
<jbailey> But AM_MAINTAINER_MODE was wired backwards, and is useless.
<seb128> how do you ensure that autotools are not ran in such cases?
<jbailey> It should always be in there, disabled by default, and be an option that you pass to configure.
<jbailey> If I weren't totally apathetic, I would write a patch for that.
<seb128> $ grep am-maintainer configure.ac
<seb128> $
<Ampelbein> debian/rules passes --disable-maintainer-mode to configure already. but that option is not recognized.
<jbailey> Hah, apparently I wrote an LJ article once ranting about this.
<seb128> right
<seb128> the modern autotools version don't seem to understand the option
<seb128> in fact no
<jbailey> seb128, It's still in Hardy.
<seb128> configure.ac should have a AM_MAINTAINER_MODE and autoconf should be run
<jbailey> AC_PREREQ(2.61)
<jbailey> AC_INIT(FULL-PACKAGE-NAME, VERSION, BUG-REPORT-ADDRESS)
<jbailey> AC_CONFIG_SRCDIR([main.cc])
<jbailey> AC_CONFIG_HEADER([config.h])
<jbailey> AM_MAINTAINER_MODE
<jbailey> Bah, never run autoconf on it's own.
<seb128> aclocal; autoconf
<jbailey> "autoreconf -f -i -s" is your friend. =)
<seb128> I hate autoreconf
<jbailey> Why?
<seb128> it makes a some hundred kbs patch where autoconf does a 25 liners
<seb128> I don't need all the Makefile.in to be updated for a configure change
<jbailey> Well, those other changes are probably bug fixes and the like, though.
<jbailey> And the size of the patch isn't a big deal once you have AM_MAINTAINER_MODE in there, because then you don't have to worry about spurious rebuilds on top of that.
<seb128> right, it just makes updates hard to review
<seb128> AM_MAINTAINER_MODE should be the default mode in any tarball
<seb128> I just don't see the point of that clever timestamp magic
<seb128> usually you either want to build using ./configure && make or you want to run autogen.sh and you do that
<pitti> it's useful for an upstream if you change Makefile.am
<pitti> then you do make and it DTRT
<seb128> well, make dist should switch maintainer mode on
<pitti> +1
<jbailey> seb128, the problem is that then a user has to remember one more thing when trying to figure out what's happening.
<jbailey> So they either then edit the Makefile directly and lose their changes, or they edit the Makefile.{am,in} and nothing happens.
<jbailey> If the use wants to touch that *and* has autotools installed, it does the right thing.
<seb128> it's just annoying to have to patch the configure.ac and have to run autoreconf to be able to use the configure option
<jbailey> You're arguing against yourself there.
<jbailey> That's what maintainer mode kills.
<jbailey> Right now you don't have to.  Just edit configure.ac, it will notice that it's newer, regenerate the configure script, rerun it, and go.
<seb128> I'm not arguing against myself
<seb128> I want to tell autotools that I know what I'm doing and that they should try to be clever because that's just buggy
<jbailey> What I think would be useful is leaving that by default, but having an option to say --disable-maintainer-mode which says don't detect the timestamps, I know what I'm doing.
<seb128> but for that I need to patch configure.ac and run autoreconf which is annoying
<seb128> right
<jbailey> Just edit configure.ac, and it will do the right thing when you're hacking on the code.
<jbailey> The only time you have a problem is when you're patching configure directly.
<seb128> I'm not hacking on the code, I'm uploading to a buildd which should not have autoconf installed
<jbailey> Something that the system isn't built for.
<jbailey> Right.  The buildds don't.
<jbailey> It's on your dev machine that's a problem.
<jbailey> You have it installed, and you're editting a file you're never supposed to touch.
<seb128> I'm not
<jbailey> It's like binary patching make on the build system.  You're not supposed to do it.
<jbailey> You're not patching configure?
<seb128> I'm having a autoreconf patch in my series
<jbailey> or Makefile{.in}
<seb128> I'm not touching it manually, I run autoreconf and put the diff in a patch
<seb128> the issue is the timestamp after patch apply
<jbailey> Doesn't matter.  Something other than autoconf on the current system is touching it.
<jbailey> It's not designed for that.
<seb128> you have to list the changes in the right order in the patch
<seb128> right
<seb128> I'm not arguing that
<seb128> I just say it's annoying it's not decided to do what I want ;-)
<jbailey> Eheh
<seb128> decided -> designed
<seb128> sometimes I wonder if we should just run autoreconf on the buildds
<jbailey> No!
<seb128> rather than having autoreconf patches
<jbailey> CDBS has an option for that and it's *horrible*
<jbailey> I tried to convince duck not to put it in.
<jbailey> Then you have no clue what the buildd built.
<seb128> cdbs is buggy according to Keybul
<seb128> Keybuk
<jbailey> Sure, it's software.  Of course it's buggy. =)
<seb128> it tries to run autotools in a smart way rather than using autoreconf simply
<jbailey> Keybuk, You're wrong. =)
<jbailey> autoreconf means that you lose reproducability of builds.
<jbailey> Unless you keep all the build-deps around as long as the binary is still around, you can't reproduce the build reliably.
<jbailey> Debian/Ubuntu builds aren't hermetic, you have to draw a matrix of all the pieces in order to get a build.
<jbailey> That's a hassle as it is without the actual code for something changing underneath you.
<seb128> we need build system for human beings ;-)
<jbailey> I really really believe that AM_MAINTAINER_MODE([false]) should be the default, and then always done.
<seb128> right, I would like this one
<jbailey> This is for humans - we're the ones who have to debug the damned things after.
<seb128> if would mean you just have to add the configure option to the rules
<seb128> if -> it
<jbailey> No, I would then make that *always* the default in all autoconf builds.
<jbailey> BEcause it has no side effects if not chosen.
<jbailey> But then people who need to stop moving parts always have the option.
<jbailey> Lagging, phone.
<seb128> right, which is what I was saying no?
<Keybuk> jbailey: you're wrong.
<seb128> you could just add the configure option to the rules if required
<jbailey> Keybuk, Bah!
<jbailey> seb128, Then packagers all need to patch the source.  Make it the default.
<seb128> right
<Keybuk> jbailey: autoreconf is a tool to run autoconf, autoheader, automake, aclocal, libtoolize and autopoint in THE RIGHT ORDER
<Keybuk> and re-run them where it is sometimes necessary
<Keybuk> cdbs does not use it
<Keybuk> instead cdbs has a hardcoded order that isn't even correct for the common case
<jbailey> Keybuk, Right.  And that should never be required at build time where the goal is a reproducable build.
<Keybuk> this has nothing to do with build reproducability
<jbailey> Keybuk, Oh, we're arguing different things.
<jbailey> Right, cdbs shouldn't call those individually; it shouldn't call them at all.
<Keybuk> no, you're arguing the wrong thing
<Keybuk> cdbs does call those things today
<Keybuk> and that is the bug
<jbailey> But if it's going to autoreconf is the right thing.
<Keybuk> correct
<jbailey> s/to/to,/
<Keybuk> though the differing opinions on AM_MAINTAINER_MODE shall stay different ;)
<Keybuk> personally I like to just let "make" invoke autoconf/automake as necessary, and have them as build-deps
<Keybuk> since then I only need to patch Makefile.am in debian/patches
<seb128> but you don't have predictable builds
<Keybuk> really?
<seb128> ie things which used to work break because new autotools version have been uploaded
<seb128> ie libtool 1.5 to libtool 2
<Keybuk> you ship the exact versions of "make", "gcc", "ld", etc. that you tested with in the package?
<jbailey> Keybuk, for that it's a matter of track record. =)
<seb128> no, but I had a lot higher of issue with autoreconf runs than with normal make
<Keybuk> I'd argue that auto-*'s track record over the past decade has been excellent
<pitti> seb128 +1
<Keybuk> the problem has been that Debian stalled updating things like automake because of it's previously terrible track record
<Keybuk> which meant that packages got stuck using the broken versions
<seb128> maintainers have not being excellent at writting correct configure.ac though
<Keybuk> not so much
<seb128> and old version of autotools have sometime but better at handling those
<Keybuk> the real problem was that there had to be a flag day where all new versions would be forwardly compatible
<seb128> but -> be
<Keybuk> but where the version you were currently on wasn't
<Keybuk> and the trouble is people stuck at the "wasn't" version for a long time
<Keybuk> autoconf 2.50, automake 1.6 and libtool 2.0 are intended to always be forwardly compatible
<Keybuk> sure, there have been bugs, but they have fixed tghose
<didrocks> seb128: +1 too with the number of issues :)
<jbailey> Keybuk, I'd give the success rate in the 4-5 year range more than the last decade.
<seb128> the issue is that most maintainer don't understand autotools and just copy bits from other softwares
<jbailey> So we're getting into the realm where people are getting off of the crappy versions.
<Keybuk> jbailey: I think you'd be surprised if you actually checked when versions were actually released ;)
<seb128> so you have broken code copied all over the place and nobody knowing how to fix it
<jbailey> seb128, The same could be argued for their C code.
<jbailey> Keybuk, I'm thinking Gnome in particular when I left Canonical still had a number of packages using Automake 1.4
<Keybuk> seb128: nobody affiliated with GNOME can use *that* argument ;)
<seb128> jbailey: the maintainer are usually keen at fixing their code bugs, not so much at fixing autotools ;-)
<Keybuk> since GNOME programming entirely consists of copying other people's code
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> troll detected :)
<jbailey> didrocks, Yeah, but we like SÃ©b.
<jbailey> ;)
<seb128> I'm troll proof no worry
<didrocks> well.. hopefully we have Keybuk for fixing all the autotool errors we don't understand (did you have any success with mine? ;)) :p
<Amaranth> my autofoo is copied from other places
<jbailey> didrocks, #autotools as well. =)
<Amaranth> almost 100% of it
<Amaranth> I kind of know what it means
<didrocks> jbailey: hum, next time, I will bother people there too ^^
<jbailey> didrocks, Sure.  We have a surprising number of people come in there.
<jbailey> For a channel we created a month or so ago and didn't tell anyone about. =)
<seb128> lol
<Amaranth> I suspect they were going there before and finding it didn't exist before
<didrocks> jbailey: :)
<didrocks> I think I will idling there ^^
<Keybuk> though it'd be nice to get things like intltool and gtk-doc-tool into autoreconf
<Keybuk> or at least make it locally extensible
<Keybuk> so people don't continue to ship autogen.sh
<seb128> right
<seb128> Ampelbein: did you follow the discussion, ie do you know what to change to avoid the build issue?
<Ampelbein> seb128: although i have to reread the discussion again to understand it completely, I take it that I have to add AM_MAINTAINER_MODE to configure.ac, rerun autoreconf and I'm done?
<jbailey> Keybuk, Do an extensibility mechanism in autoconf and have autoreconf pull that out with a trace.
<seb128> Ampelbein: right, autoconf should be enough, just update the autotools patch you have
<Ampelbein> seb128: ok, will do
<Ampelbein> seb128: is it enough to just request a merge of the branch or should i open a new sponsoring bug?
<seb128> Ampelbein: just update your bzr and ping me about it when it's done
<Ampelbein> ok
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, i see you've done some hal updates today. would you mind having a look at a patch i wrote to fix a hald crash? (it's in a branch proposed for merging in to ubuntu-core-dev)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: sure; I'd commit it upstream, though
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I wonder why I didn't get a merge request mail
<pitti> chrisccoulson: perhaps you can mail me the URL to the MP, and I'll get to it ASAP?
<chrisccoulson> i sent the patch upstream but the bug report it's attached to is fairly quiet
<chrisccoulson> i don't think i added you as a reviewer for the merge request. i'll mail you the URL to that shortly anyway. i have to dash now to go home
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yeah, hal patches are better on the upstream ML, nobody looks at bz, I'm afraid
<asac> pitti: so i attached a patch for the almost dead modem fdi ;) ... bug 374970
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 374970 in hal-info "update/fix some modem fdi rules" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374970
<asac> hope i didnt sumit that before (had it in my inbox for a week or so)
<asac> submit
<pitti> asac: heh, thanks
<Ampelbein> seb128: branch https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amoog/gnome-utils/devel updated
<seb128> ok
<seb128> Ampelbein: you forgot to bzr add the new change?
<Ampelbein> seb128: arghs. yes.
<Ampelbein> seb128: change pushed.
<seb128> Ampelbein: did you check that's it's working?
<seb128> Ampelbein: I mean the change, the bzr is updated now
<Ampelbein> seb128: how do i check this? i tried touching Makefile.am in clean virtualboxenvironment which should provoke invocation of the autotools, right? and it did not autoreconf on building.
<seb128> you need to touch it after the autotools change
<seb128> try adding a patch after that one which edit the Makefile.am or touch it in the rules
<Ampelbein> could it be that the latest cdbs in ubuntu broke it? i get http://paste.ubuntu.com/169803/ using 0.4.56ubuntu2, with ubuntu1 it works as expected
<seb128> weird
<pitti> latest cdbs just fixed a corner case in cdbs-edit-patch
<Ampelbein> pitti: give me a minute, i will provide terminal-logs of new version and ubuntu1.
<Ampelbein> pitti: 0.4.56ubuntu1: http://paste.ubuntu.com/169805/ , 0.4.56ubuntu2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/169808/
<Ampelbein> pitti: do you need more info? if so, just tell me and i happily provide it.
<pitti> Ampelbein: ah, that would be my change, indeed
<Ampelbein> pitti: is it anything wrong with my pathnames or anything else where I did something unusual?
<pitti> Ampelbein: no, I just screwed up; I'm at it
<pitti> Ampelbein: uploaded; sorry!
<Ampelbein> pitti: i guess there is no need to be sorry. thanks for fixing it so fast.
<didrocks> I'm screwing vte. I can't find why it is choosing site-packages and doko isn't here!
<didrocks> I will still fight a little :)
<pitti> didrocks: you call setup.py install with --install-layout=deb ?
<pitti> that shuold fix it
<didrocks> pitti: there is no setup.py call
<pitti> didrocks: that would be it then
<pitti> didrocks: use dh_install to install debian/tmp/.... site-packages to dist-packages
<didrocks> pitti: yes, that's what I read in doko's post
<pitti> anyway, /me waves goodbye, Taekwondo time
<pitti> see you tomorrow!
<didrocks> pitti: see you tomorrow ;)
<chrisccoulson> nice spam from ubuntu-devel list today :/
<asac> lool: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26594087/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-amd64.gtk%2B2.0_2.16.1-0ubuntu4~asac~k_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ...
<asac> cp: cannot stat `./debian/install/directfb/usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/loaders/libpixbufloader-png.so': No such file or directory
<asac> dh_install: cp returned exit code 1
<asac> lool: do you see anything in the build log that would prevent that lib from ending up there?
<asac> (that worked on all bug amd64)
<asac> but
<rickspencer3-afk> awe: hi
<rickspencer3> oops, I've had the wrong nick for over two hours!
<awe> rickspencer3: hey
<awe> ;)
<rickspencer3> awe: I saw your mail
<awe> cool, i just read your reply
<rickspencer3> you should keep in mind that I am a complete hard ass
<rickspencer3> ;)
<rickspencer3> ask any one here
<awe> that's nice to hear!
<rickspencer3> :)
<awe> I'm having fun with merges today.
<rickspencer3> awe: seriously, it sounds like things are going well, and you can't do better than to work with asac, he's made of awesome
<rickspencer3> hehe
<awe> cool.  we know each other well, so I'm glad we finally get a chance to work together
<rickspencer3> also, pitti is the tech lead for the desktop team, so you should feel free to ask him any questions as well
<awe> sounds good.  as i mentioned before, we've played guitar together at a few of our UDS/AllHands jams, so I know pitti well too...
<awe> looking forward to working with everyone!
<lool> asac: checking pixbuf loaders to build...
<lool> checking if gio can sniff png... no
<lool> This might be the issue
<asac> lool: hmm thanks ... but it builds the -png builder from what i saw.
<asac> lool: odd. was temporarily. i made a new upload and now it worked ;)
<asac> great
<lool> asac: Not too reassuring   :-/
<Ampelbein> seb128: welcome back. i updated the gnome-utils branch, lp:~amoog/gnome-utils/devel
<seb128> Ampelbein: hey, did you manage to test the issue?
<Ampelbein> seb128: yeah. but i had to run autoreconf after the AM_MAINTAINER_MODE change, it did not work with just running autoconf.
<seb128> oh ok
<Ampelbein> and cdbs has been updated, ubuntu3 works as expected now.
<seb128> I've noticed the update
<jbailey> Amaranth, AM_MAINTAINER_MODE requires the whole set to be run, yes.
<jbailey> It's quite invasive.
<jbailey> But after that, the right things should happen.
<Nafallo> jbailey: wow. you're alive... :-)
<Nafallo> jbailey: hi
<jbailey> Nafallo, Still moving.  There were some iffy moments, but.. =)
<jbailey> Meeting in 90 seconds, back in 30 minutes.
<Nafallo> heha
<Nafallo> ehrm
<Nafallo> hehe
<lool> asac: BTW I uploaded a gtk+2.0 fixing the missing --build and --host; do you plan an ia32libs uplaod for A1?
<asac> lool: yes. bug 369498 fix will land soon
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 369498 in gtk+2.0 "Errors when running acroread in 9.04 (fully updated)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369498
<asac> did the patches today. just want to verify gio too
<lool> Cool, thanks
<lool> asac: You might have to revert the jaunty triplet changes
<seb128_> Ampelbein: do you still have work on your list or are you looking for other updates?
<Ampelbein> seb128_: i could do other updates now. otherwise i would just look on MoM to find me some work ;-)
<seb128_> Ampelbein: eog is to merge on debian and update to 2.27.1 if you want
<Ampelbein> seb128_: ok, doing that one
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-12
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: good morning
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: hi rick
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: how was your weekend (and Monday)?
<rickspencer3> it's very confusing talking to you when it's tomorrow for you
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: hehe, Good weekend.  I've been working on uploading new packages yesterday (very easy to make errors)
<rickspencer3> yes, packaging is a job for people with keen attention to detail, indeed
 * dobey needs some packaging help
<dobey> whatever runs debian/rules has decided it hates me i think
<maxb> :-)
<ajmitch> dobey: what's breaking?
<dobey> ajmitch: it's not running the dh_icons i told it to run
<ajmitch> put your debian/rules on pastebin somewhere?
<dobey> ajmitch: http://pastebin.com/dff8a672
<ajmitch> oh, a fun cdbs package :)
 * ajmitch tries to remember the appropriate make syntax for what gets run first
<dobey> yeah
<maxb> hmm
<james_w> dobey: try binary-install/package-name::
<maxb> Isn't it supposed to be.... yes, that :-)
<james_w>     dh_icons -ppackage-name
<dobey> james_w: package-name is literal?
<dobey> james_w: the odd thing is that this used to work fine
<james_w> dobey: no, the package name you want to run dh_icons for
<james_w> welcome to CDBS :-)
<dobey> and there's only one package
 * dobey tries anyway
<james_w> common-binary-indep:: might work as well
<james_w> or -arch if it's not arch independent
<pitti> Good morning
<ajmitch> hello pitti
<didrocks> morning pitti & ajmitch
<didrocks> pitti: using dh_pysupport -d as in old debian/rules instead of dh_pysupport -ppython-vte fix the FTBFS. BUT modules like vtemodule.so are installed in usr/lib/pyshared (like Debian) instead of usr/lib/py-support
<didrocks> and doko is away these days...
<pitti> didrocks: hm, isn't pyshared/ the right location anyway?
<didrocks> pitti: wondering, don't know the difference between pyshared and python-support
<didrocks> in the old packages, it was python-support
<pitti> didrocks: you are right, it needs to be python-support/
<didrocks> pitti: do you find any documentation on that?
<pitti> didrocks: -d is deprecated
<didrocks> pitti: yes, I saw taht
<didrocks> that*
<pitti> didrocks: oh, hang on
<pitti> *.so is in pyshared?
<pitti> that's _wrong_
<didrocks> yes, that's it
<pitti> *.so need to go itno /usr/lib/python2.X/{site,dist}-packages/
<pitti> they are version specific, not shared
<didrocks> hum, in the previous revision, they were in:/usr/lib/python-support/python-vte/python2.5/
<didrocks> http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/i386/python-vte/filelist for instance
<didrocks> so, they are versionned
<didrocks> (and it's still the case in pyshared)
<didrocks> usr/lib/pyshared/python2.5/ for instance
<pitti> that's still wrong
<pitti> well, it might work
<pitti> but they should just be in the standard directory
<didrocks> yes. I will ask to dktrkranz when he will be around
<pitti> robert_ancell: I retried the builds of gnome-games and glade-3, they failed due to pygtk arch mismatch; should be okay now
<robert_ancell> pitti: ok, was going to look into that
<robert_ancell> pitti: do you know about the translation imports, see bug 283183 - can I close invalid?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283183 in cheese "Translation template not imported, failed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283183
<pitti> robert_ancell: I guess the Polish .po file is broken in some way
<pitti> so the bug at least doesn't seem invalid
<robert_ancell> pitti: there are many failures in translations.lp.net, e.g. gnome-games has 6.  I'm so used to translations.lp.net complaining that I've just assumed it was broken :)
<pitti> robert_ancell: yeah, I usually ignore them as well
<pitti> ideally they'd be fixed upstream at some point, but it's too much for our limited capacity
<pitti> so ignoring is just okay
<pitti> if the language teams care about something particular, they should do that work
<robert_ancell> hmm, I can't work out what is wrong with it so not sure how to flick upstream
<robert_ancell> pitti: should I be a member of ~ubuntu-desktop in bzr?  I want to create some bzr archives for packages
<pitti> robert_ancell: just ignore it for now
<pitti> robert_ancell: yes, you should be
<pitti> robert_ancell: did you practice bzr maintained packages with Seb already
<pitti> you know https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr ?
<robert_ancell> pitti: yes, we did it in London and I got to the last step in the Wiki page and aren't a member of the group
<pitti> robert_ancell: wrong, you are
<pitti> for about 20 seconds now :-)
<robert_ancell> pitti: :P
<seb128> good morning everybody
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> hello pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: bit stressed
<seb128> oh?
<pitti> yesterday's upload broke karmic all over the place :(
<pitti> and I'm on alpha-1 duty this week
<seb128> which upload?
<pitti> seb128: how are you?
<pitti> well, many :)
<pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/karmic_probs.html
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<pitti> I sorted out gnome-games and glade-3
<pitti> no idea about ptlib etc. yet (ekiga)
<seb128> karmic_probs doesn't seem out of control
<pitti> currently fighting with openoffice
<seb128> what was gnome-games and glade-3 due to?
<pitti> seb128: no, but ubuntu-desktop is uninstallable
 * ajmitch sees a lot of kde*
<crevette> pitti, I cannot boot anymore in karmic, due to hald / console-kit stuck, is it a know problem ?
<pitti> seb128: that was just pygtk i386/amd64 desync, I gave them back
<pitti> crevette: dist-upgrade
<seb128> ok, sorry about that
<pitti> crevette: a newer dbus broke it, current d-bus should fix it
<crevette> pitti, okay I update at the wrong moment so :)
<pitti> seb128: no problem, that was easy, and happens all the time anyway
<crevette> pitti, thanks a lot
<seb128> the alpha1 timing is not perfect
<pitti> it's never perfect :)
<pitti> it always comes in the middle of much activity
<seb128> if I block upload nows with allhand and uds coming I will get no GNOME work done for a month
<pitti> seb128: no, don't block GNOME uploads
<seb128> ok thanks
<pitti> we just need to ensure to handle FTBFSes
<pitti> I'd just appreciate if someone coudl look what's wrong with ptlib?
<pitti> oh, it's just the -dev
<pitti> Riddell: while I'm working on the OO.o breakage, could you please have a look at the kde* uninstallability?
<crevette> hey seb128
<crevette> and others
<seb128> lut crevette
<pitti> seb128: seahorse-plugins wants to go to universe, is that ok?
<seb128> pitti: everything is ok but it used to be installed by default
<pitti> seb128: wasn't that for the gnupg thing?
<seb128> it's doing gpg agent yes
<seb128> seahorse used to recommends it I think
<seb128> that has been changed by a suggest in debian though
<pitti> hm, so we could sell it as "boot speed improvement" instead of "feature cut"? :-)
<seb128> I'm not clear of what we want
<pitti> admittedly few users need a gpg agent, I figure
<seb128> it's not really taking boot time
<pitti> it took about a second or so for me, AFAIR
<seb128> I've never been clear on what should be seeded as supported or what should go to universe
<seb128> so your call
<pitti> and since it's an xsession.d/ script, it blocks everything, no?
<pitti> seb128: let's keep it not installed by default and see who complains
<pitti> ideally this ancient gpg agent activation socket would go away and be replaced with something d-bus activated
<seb128> ok
<seb128> still I'm interested by knowing if you have an opinion on supported against universe
<seb128> we have gftp for example that we could sync if it was in universe
<pitti> seb128: 'supported against universe'?
<pitti> seb128: I wouldn't mind having gftp in universe
<pitti> nautilus can do ftp, that's about as much ftp as most people need, I figure
<seb128> pitti: right, "supported against universe", in "should seahorse-plugins go to universe or stay in main since that's a GNOME component and was installed by default"
<pitti> seb128: you mean you would like to keep all gnome components in main?
 * seb128 kicks hald which is sitting there for hours and not restarting and blocking upgrade
<pitti> seb128: you need the latest d-bus
<seb128> pitti: not especially, I'm not clear why we have this supported seed
<didrocks> hey seb128
<pitti> a previous d-bus upload broke hal
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> pitti: ie what should go to supported nowadays
<pitti> seb128: packages in main get langpacks, etc.
<pitti> but in general, "stuff that we want to support, but not install by default"
<seb128> ok, so is the seahorse gpg agent in this case?
<pitti> I think so
<didrocks> seb128: gnome-python-extras is ready. Do you want I open a bug for sponsoring (not sure if we want it in bzr too)?
<pitti> gtfp rather not
<pitti> gthumb, probably not, since we promote f-spot as default
<pitti> it depends on which packages you guys can and want to maintain
<seb128> ok
<pitti> s/you guys/we/, sorry
<seb128> well, easier to get things maintained in universe
 * pitti has been known to do some gthumb uploads
<pitti> indeed
<seb128> ok that's not for today but I put that on my todolist, cleaning desktop packages in main that could go to universe
<seb128> didrocks: I don't understand the question, you want to stop using sponsoring bugs? what else do you suggest to track those?
<pitti> seb128: sounds great
<didrocks> seb128: no no, just if you want that I push this package in bzr (~ubuntu-desktop) too before opening the bug)
<seb128> didrocks: are we near of merging with debian?
<didrocks> seb128: yes, it's merged. I have to work on ubuntu-desktop now and then reshape every packages to have on -dbg package by source
<seb128> didrocks: you can use your bzr or the team one, I don't really care either way, we can drop the bzr when we sync with debian later if we sync
<didrocks> seb128: ok, using team one for the moment
<didrocks> seb128: will do it this morning (not now, a lot of work today :/)
<asac> hi
<seb128> didrocks: ok, no hurry, good luck with work
<seb128> hey asac
<didrocks> seb128: thanks, will try ^^
<didrocks> hi asac
<pitti> seb128: do you think we should say "gnome 2.27.1" in the alpha-1 notes?
<seb128> pitti: we are close enough of it now to say it yes
<seb128> we did most of the revelant updates yesterday
<robert_ancell> seb128: hey
<robert_ancell> didrocks: hey2
<seb128> hello robert_ancell, how are you?
<robert_ancell> seb128: good.  I was having trouble finding any gnome packages to update today!
<robert_ancell> seb128: what was the plan with gdm?  It's so different from the current version, are we going to update in Karmic?
<seb128> robert_ancell: need to be discussed at uds again, I'm leaning toward updating now but it's not a good idea for several reasons
<seb128> the new gdm version is in the desktop team ppa
<seb128> as gdm-new
<seb128> the rational is that the old gdm works fine and the new one doesn't bring a lot
<seb128> but has not graphical configuration tool
<seb128> no graphical themes
<pitti> the original plan was to land face-browser in karmic, together with the new gdm
<pitti> to avoid changing UI twice
<seb128> that's not going to happen though
<seb128> and next cycle if that's a lts is not the right cycle either
<seb128> so I'm leaning toward going for it now
<seb128> though the upstream issues I listed are not solved but it seem they will not be soon
<robert_ancell> are there any packages in need of updating? Or are we holding off until after the alpha
<seb128> the new gdm has better *kit integration, user switching, etc
<seb128> robert_ancell: did you do the totem and totem-pl-parser 2.27 updates?
<didrocks> robert_ancell: hey :)
<crevette> and I heard the gnome-power was no more per user but launched ah gdm start so power policy is run when no user is connected
<robert_ancell> seb128: I knew I forgot something... Will finish them tomorrow
<seb128> robert_ancell: ok, you can also merge deskbar-applet on debian and update to 2.27.1
<robert_ancell> ok, will do
<seb128> robert_ancell: and look to the gdl and anjuta update if you have interest in that
<seb128> huats does those usually but he's busy at the moment
<robert_ancell> ok. I'm heading off now, any more requests?
<seb128> no, extra bug triage effort would be nice too ;-)
<seb128> and otherwise there is plenty of merges on merges.ubuntu.com if you look for something to do
<huats> seb128: I can take a few stuffs too :)
<robert_ancell> seb128: I hacked away at cheese triaging today
<seb128> but I think with those you should have enough to be busy
<huats> it might be a good way to change my ideas :)
<huats> hello btw seb128 and robert_ancell :)
<seb128> robert_ancell: ah ok, I'm not subscribed to this one so I didn't notice, good ;-)
<robert_ancell> hi huats
<seb128> lut huats
<seb128> robert_ancell: ok, so you have deskbar-applets, totem and totem-pl-parse to merge and update for tomorrow
<robert_ancell> see you guys tomorrow
<seb128> have fun, see you tomorrow
<seb128> brb restart after karmic upgrade
<asac> seb128_: upgraded today?
<asac> worked fine?
<seb128_> asac: no, I did upgrade 2 weeks ago, I just did another dist-upgrade after 2 weeks not touching this box
<seb128_> I worked on my laptop previous week because I was in London
<pitti> I dist-upgraded and rebooted, works fine except for OO.o installability
<pitti> working on that
<seb128_> and yes current karmic works fine there
<asac> heh
<asac> my karmic upgrade wants to remove apache2
<asac> too bad
<asac> is apache2 with apache2-mpm-prefork installable for anyone on karmic?
<seb128_> yes
<seb128_> it wants to remove apache2-mpm-worker though
<asac> yeah thats expected i guess
<asac> odd
<seb128_> what?
<seb128_> sudo apt-get install apache2-mpm-worker apache2
<seb128_> what error do you get?
<asac> that it installs for you and it wants to be removed here ;)
<asac> no error
<seb128_> so?
<asac> just that dist-upgrade to karmic wants to remove apache here
<seb128_> you probably have something else installed which requires that
<seb128_> sudo aptitude dist-upgrade
<seb128_> and look at the reason
<asac> hmm ... aptitude doesnt want to remove it
<seb128_> does it put something else on hold or remove something else?
<asac> oh libaprutil1 seems to have breaks on my apache common
<ajmitch> oh that's right, you'll be on amd64
<asac> so maybe binary all hasnt made it to my archive
<asac> right amd64
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> apr-util failed to build on i386 due to dependencies
<asac> heh
<ajmitch> but the later one built on amd64, which introduced a breaks on apache-common
 * ajmitch was doing an apache2 merge earlier
<seb128_> hey ajmitch, it has been a while, how are you?
<ajmitch> good, how are you?
<seb128_> good thanks
<asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apr-util/1.3.4+dfsg-2
<asac> that seems to have build
<asac> om its recent
<ajmitch> oh, it built now, interesting
<asac> so all is probably just missing on my mirror
<ajmitch> it'll still have the breaks on apache-common until the updated apache2 package is uploaded & built
<ajmitch> but that'll drag in libaprutil1-ldap, libaprutil1-dbd-mysql from universe :)
<asac> isnt that an alpha-1 blocker for the server team ;)?
<ajmitch> pitti: sorry, looks like a apache2 upload may be needed to fix this up :(
<asac> i always knew that Breaks: is just evil ;)
<ajmitch> if my muddled reasoning is correct
<ajmitch> blame debian maintainers, right? ;)
<didrocks> seb128_: gnome-python-extras ready, bugs #375355
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375355 in gnome-python-extras "Please, merge gnome-python-extras 2.25.3-2 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375355
<seb128_> didrocks: ok thanks
<didrocks> seb128_: so, now. I'm focusing on reshaping one -dbg package by gnome-python* source?
<asac> udev breaks devmapper (dmsetup) ... and no upload in sight ;)
<seb128_> would be nice, and sending the patches to debian so maybe we can be almost in sync again on those
<didrocks> seb128_: ok. I will try. Anything else, more relaxing, during this time? :)
<asac> udev: Breaks: dmsetup (<= 2:1.02.27-4ubuntu5) but 2:1.02.27-4ubuntu5 is installed.
<asac> pitti: ^^ any plans to upload that for karmic?
<seb128_> didrocks: nothing specific feel free to do shopping on merge.ubuntu.com
<didrocks> seb128_: ok. That's some kind of inexpensive shopping ^^
<didrocks> (apart for free time ;))
<seb128_> hehe
<ajmitch> asac: see discussion in -devel a few minutes ago :)
<seb128_> indeed!
<asac> good
<asac> thx ajmitch
<pitti> ajmitch: ok, go ahead then please
<pitti> asac: that was discussed in #u-devel, let me talk to keybuk
<Keybuk> :-)
<asac> pitti: bug 352622 ... can you please put that to proposed? its a no change upload that will allow the ppp plugin to load
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 352622 in pptpd "/usr/lib/pptpd/pptpd-logwtmp.so is for pppd version 2.4.4 not 2.4.5" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352622
<pitti> asac: oh, sorry; thought I did that days ago already
<asac> no problem ;)
<pitti> asac: will do an SRU round today, in between fighting archive
<asac> pitti: i think you didnt like that there was no impact/verify instructions in description and then it dropped from the radar
<pitti> indeed, and in comment 16 I was just confused
<didrocks> pitti: I might have a clue. The previous version of vte was built with python-support 0.8.7. I have to figure out how to force this manually in my pbuilder though.
<didrocks> (just to confirm)
<pitti> didrocks: might very well be a regression/changed behaviour there, yes
<didrocks> pitti: pyshared is the right location for .so modules. http://paste.ubuntu.com/170484/
<pitti> didrocks: alright, thanks for clearing that; then python-apt is wrong
<didrocks> it seems, yeah
<didrocks> pitti: just fixing -dbg package and I open a new bug for sponsoring
<pitti> didrocks: or just ping here, you're committing to bzr anyway, right?
<didrocks> pitti: ok. I will ping you, after committing :)
 * asac lunch
<didrocks> pitti: new vte revision pushed
<pitti> didrocks: hah, that looks good
<didrocks> pitti: great ;)
<pitti> seb128: do you think that Robert and you want to maintain libpst? (see bug 351577)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 351577 in libpst "MIR - libpst" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/351577
<seb128> pitti: that's a biased question ;-)
<pitti> seb128: well, if you say it's not maintainable, we don't support it, period :)
<seb128> pitti: I think it's an useful feature to have and we got questions in review about that not being working in jaunty
<seb128> I'm not looking for extra work but I think we should use it yes
<Keybuk> seb128: gnome-keyring seems a little bit broken
<seb128> Keybuk: what ubuntu version and how?
<Keybuk> seb128: karmic, current
<Keybuk> it keeps asking for the passphrase over and over and over again
<pitti> hm, I'm using both ssh and gpg, WFM
<seb128> I would said it's due to something else
<seb128> since it didn't change since jaunty
<Keybuk> it's failing for all applications
<seb128> wfm
<seb128> and I dist-upgraded this morning
<Keybuk> how would I debug?
<Keybuk> ah
<seb128> gnome-keyring-daemon --foreground perhaps
<Keybuk> in the process of poking, I figured out what the problem is
<seb128> ah?
<Keybuk> my X keymap has reverted to "USA"
<Keybuk> and gnome-keyring never says if you get the password wrong
<seb128> I got the issue too on the gdm screen this morning
<seb128> but I've a custom keymap in gconf for GNOME so it was working there
<seb128> iz xorg bog
<crevette> about bog, I wanted to know if this is possible to run Xorg in the old fashion way for input device (without hal)
<ikonia> seb128: thanks for the input on the bug reprot
<ikonia> report
<seb128> ikonia: which one? I comment on over an hundred bug every a day
<ikonia> seb128: the ssh/gnome-keyring/ssh-add bug
<seb128> -every
<seb128> ah ok
<seb128> sorry to not being really helpful but what I know is that it works for most people
<seb128> it's weird that you get the issue on several stock installs
<ikonia> trying it on a seperate hardware platform
<pitti> I'm actually using US layout, though
<seb128> could be due to some rsa keys or something, there is some bugs about that
<ikonia> I doubt that, as I've tried re-creating the key
<seb128> pitti: you were using dvorak no? or just learning?
<ikonia> and if I manually invoke ssh-add it works finr
<ikonia> fine
<pitti> seb128: I had learned it years ago, but never to the point of being sufficiently fluent
<seb128> ikonia: ssh-agent is not the gnome-keyring agent though
<pitti> so I have used US for years
<seb128> ok
<seb128> ikonia: env | grep SSH?
<ikonia> seb128: I know, the problem is with ssh-add/and gnome-keyring
<ikonia> SSH_AGENT_PID=4012
<ikonia> SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/tmp/keyring-dog0Sb/socket.ssh
<ikonia> all good
<ikonia> using the keyring as the auth
<seb128> ikonia: what is not working there if the keyring is used?
<seb128> ikonia: ls -l /tmp/keyring-dog0Sb/socket.ssh
<ikonia> seb128: the keyring is not being used
<seb128> ikonia:
<seb128> " all good
<seb128>  using the keyring as the auth"
<ikonia> seb128: if I do "ssh hostname" - ssh asks me for the key, rather than gnome-keyring launghing the ask-pass gui
<seb128> that's not coherent, is it used or not?
<ikonia> sorry - it's setup according to the auth_sock varible to use it, but it is is not being invoked
<seb128> ok
<seb128> ikonia: ls -l /tmp/keyring-dog0Sb/socket.ssh
<ikonia> srwxr-xr-x 1 test test 0 2009-05-12 08:12 /tmp/keyring-dog0Sb/socket.ssh
<seb128> ikonia: gconftool -R /apps/gnome-keyring
<ikonia> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/170541/
<seb128> ps aux | grep gnome-keyring
<ikonia> test     3862  0.0  0.0  92424  3292 ?        S    08:12   0:01 /usr/bin/gnome-keyring-daemon --daemonize --login
<seb128> can you stop this one, run
<ikonia> sure
<seb128> gnome-keyring-daemon --daemonize --login --foreground
<seb128> ups
<seb128> not --daemonize
<seb128> and see if anything is printed when trying to use ssh
<ikonia> nothing in the terminal
<ikonia> just ssh prompting me for a password for the key
<seb128> and ssh -vvv has nothing useful?
<seb128> you are sure your setup is configured correctly to do key authentification?
<ikonia> seb128: very useful stuff for debugging an ssh problem, but as there is no problem - it just things it's waiting for a key
<seb128> ok so I don't know
<ikonia> it can do key auth, fine, working for years, if I put the key in with ssh - it works fine
<seb128> upstream might have a better idea about the issue
<seb128> you can try opening a bug on bugzilla.gnome.org
<ikonia> trying to find someone who can spec out the gnoem stuff,
<seb128> well upstream is usually responsive
<seb128> and they writte the code so they know it
<ikonia> I'll see what I can get, but as I said, thank you for a response
<seb128> you're welcome
<Keybuk> seb128: definitely something up with gpg:
<Keybuk> gpg: gpg-agent is not available in this session
<seb128> env | grep GPG
<Keybuk> seb128: nada
<seb128> is seahorse-plugins installed?
<Keybuk> no
<seb128> there you go
<Keybuk> why would that have been removed?
<Keybuk> nothing depends on it
<seb128> the seahorse recommends has been changing to suggests
<seb128> changed
<Keybuk> why?
<seb128> we discussed it this morning with pitti
<Keybuk> no gpg agent by default?
<pitti> I just don't understand why it gets removed?
<pitti> (on upgrades)
<Keybuk> pitti: because it's no longer a recommends, so it's an "unused package automatically installed"
<seb128> because debian did it this way, pitti thinks that's good idea, it wins some login speed and gpg agent is not used by most users
<pitti> having new installs without an agent is certainly fine, but it shuold be kept on upgrades
<seb128> pitti: Keybuk probably did a clean run
<Keybuk> it makes bzr a ball-ache to use
<pitti> Keybuk: ah, autoremove
<Keybuk> not to mention packaging ;)
<Keybuk> does it really take much time just for the gpg agent?
<seb128> I would say no
<Keybuk> I mean, if I were looking at login time and swinging some axes, I wouldn't be targetting that
<pitti> Keybuk: it's an xsession.d script, thus blocking everything
<seb128> but pitti says it takes 1 second on his box
<pitti> Keybuk: how much does it take on your reference box?
<Keybuk> I guess I have to logout and login to get it?
<Keybuk> pitti: doesn't show up
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/black-jaunty-20090310-4_cropped.png
<seb128> Keybuk: yes
<pitti> Keybuk: yes, it's a stupid "install an unix socket" architecture
<pitti> I wish it would use something less 1960ish
<pitti> it needs to run all the time for nothing for most users
<Keybuk> it sounds like it'd be nicer if someone ported it to a GpgKit like D-Bus activated service
<pitti> indeed
<pitti> I haven't checked gpg2 and pinentry yet, perhaps that changed to something less silly
<seb128> pitti: ok, I've a gvfs git package ready to upload to karmic ... do you know if that's normal that both the hal and the gdu monitors are installed?
<didrocks> seb128: gvfs provides as well frontends for hal and du?
<didrocks> (btw, I will upgrade to karmic during UDS, promise ;))
<seb128> didrocks: rather backends that frontend but yes
<didrocks> seb128: ok, I thought that gdu was a frontend
<seb128> gvfs is not a graphical layer
<didrocks> yes, I'm aware of that. That's why I was surprised :)
<seb128> but I'm not sure on how gdu fits in the puzzle that's why I'm asking pitti there ;-)
<didrocks> oki ^^
<seb128> I though gdu would be doing the volumes and drive monitoring too
<didrocks> seb128: it's not gio?
<seb128> no, gio is the filesystem layer
<seb128> gvfs is what monitors for devices, etc
<didrocks> ok, I only memorized gvfs == backend and gio == frontend. And I understood monitoring as monitoring vfs. Hence my misunderstanding :)
<seb128> gio is what let you monitor files, read those, etc
<seb128> gvfs provide the backend to access non local files for example and monitors the mounts, devices, etc
<seb128> so gio doesn't have to know if a path is a local one or a gvfs location
<didrocks> ok, so gio is just some kind of library to access file, which can interact with the local vfs, or gvfs
<didrocks> gvfs itself can interact with fuse, and so on...
<seb128> didrocks: sort of yes
<didrocks> seb128: ok, thanks ;)
<pitti> didrocks: new gvfs should drop the hal monitor
<pitti> seb128: gdu is a library which provides gnome-mount-like functionality for gvfs, but in library form
<pitti> seb128: thus, gnome-mount will be obsolete with the gdu-gvfs
<seb128> pitti: I've a git build but both hal and gdu monitors are installed, was that the case for your build too?
<pitti> seb128: no, I disabled the hal backend, since I wanted to drop the b-dep
<pitti> seb128: but it's still present in the source, of course
<seb128> pitti: well in my case it's still in the gvfs-backend binary
<seb128> pitti: I've no other issue, the gphoto backend built correctly
<seb128> pitti: I'm sorting that with upstream and will upload to karmic soon
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<seb128> pitti: ok, I upload the new gvfs with both backend and without the gnome-disk-utility recommends
<seb128> that's less disruptive for the alpha milestone, to avoid getting new stuff on the CD
<seb128> this way gdu is used when gnome-dist-utility is installed otherwise it falls back to the old way
<asac> hmm ... fork/execv forgets environ?
<chrisccoulson> asac - shouldn't do should it?
<asac> not sure ;)
<pitti> seb128: right, we don't need the palimpsest tool at all
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<seb128> pitti: uploaded meanwhile, enjoy
<pitti> seb128: g-d-u binary package has nothing to do with gvfs
<pitti> it's like gparted, but with using devkit
<seb128> pitti: something in the gnome-disk-utility depends was required though
<seb128> pitti: because the gdu monitor was not running before I installed it
<seb128> could be libgdu-gtk
<pitti> seb128: hm, weird; I don't have it installed, it just needs libgdu and libgdu-gtk
<seb128> I didn't have libgdu-gtk
<seb128> it build-depends on libgdu-dev
<pitti> seb128: right, I replaced libhal-dev with libgdu-dev, too
<pitti> and the hal dependency with devicekit-disks
<pitti> seb128: so libgphoto built for you?
<seb128> pitti: I didn't have devicekit-disks installed
<seb128> pitti: yes, debdiff shows no difference out of the new gdu files and all configure options were set to yes
<pitti> seb128: ah, then it's probably still using hal
<pitti> seb128: that's fine, I'll have another look at it after a1, and switch it over
<pitti> seb128: thanks for uploading
<seb128> pitti: what I said, it was using hal until I installed gnome-disk-utility
<seb128> which pulled devicekit-disks
<seb128> so something in the depends is required for gdu to be on
<seb128> devicekit-disks I guess
<pitti> seb128: that would be it then; I bet it tries to use that, and then falls back
<seb128> I didn't add the Recommends though to not impact on CD builds
<seb128> pitti: it does
<pitti> cool
<seb128> so right now there is no change by default
<seb128> and people installing devicekit-disks get gdu used
<seb128> it's all good
<seb128> we will add the recommends once alpha is out and devicekit-disks in promoted if that's not the case yet
<pitti> right
<jcastro> seb128: hey check these out: http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Patches
<seb128> jcastro: yeah, we have patch tagging guidelines too ;-)
<jcastro> yes, I know.
<jcastro> I was just pointing these out.
<seb128> jcastro: do you think there is something interesting in those that we don't do or you are just pointing it for the record?
<jcastro> I was just thinking if there is any value in having the same format for everybody
<seb128> I doubt it
<jcastro> We have full URLs for fully lazy people
<seb128> indeed
<kenvandine> pitti: ping
<kenvandine> pitti: for some reason, evolution-indicator is getting removed on upgrades (at least for rickspencer3 and I)
<rickspencer3> is there some way that I can query apt-get to find out why it was removed?
 * rickspencer3 has poor apt-cache-fu
<pitti> 'was' is a little late
<kenvandine> me too :)
<pitti> usually it's very easy if it's _about_ to be removed on dist-upgrade
<pitti> if that happens, you should immediately abort, use "upgrade", and then debug it
<kenvandine> i think it got removed yesterday
<kenvandine> yeah
<pitti> kenvandine: what happens if you install it?
<kenvandine> works fine
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: what is the specific package name?
<kenvandine> evolution-indicator
<kenvandine> rc  evolution-indicator                    0.1.12-0ubuntu1                        GNOME panel indicator applet for Evolution
<kenvandine> what does that rc mean?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: bzzzt
<pitti> 'removed', "conffiles left"
<rickspencer3> it's installed for me:
<rickspencer3> the only configuration will be KMS + GEM + UXA.
<rickspencer3> I mean
<rickspencer3> rick@rick-desktop:~$ aptitude search evolution-indicator
<rickspencer3> i   evolution-indicator                                                                             - GNOME panel indicator applet for Evolution
<pitti> kenvandine: most probably a temporary uninstallability due to gnome rebuilds
<pitti> ii  evolution-indicator   0.1.15-0ubuntu1
<pitti> seems to work fine here
<kenvandine> pitti: my karmic box has it
<kenvandine> my jaunty box had it yesterday morning... but not last night
<kenvandine> i did update at the end of the day
<seb128> on "upgrades"
<seb128> how do you upgrade?
 * kenvandine should have looked closer
<kenvandine> update-manager
<seb128> update-manager should never remove anything
<kenvandine> that is all i used yesterday
<seb128> weird
<seb128> are you sure?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: do you know for a fact that it was uninstalled?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> it was "rc"
<seb128> did you get the dist-upgrade mode?
<kenvandine> no
<seb128> I don't believe you
<kenvandine> :)
<pitti> well, such things happen every now and then
<seb128> update-manager is programmed to not do removal
<kenvandine> is there a log?
<seb128> /var/log/dpkg.log
<pitti> during the early karmic days with lots of archive shatter you just need to be careful
<seb128> pitti: that's a jaunty install
<seb128> and I doubt update-manager does uninstall anything
<seb128> it puts things on hold usually
<kenvandine> i don't see anything removing it in the log
<kenvandine> in fact, the only references to it are from just now when i installed it
<seb128> the log lists all the package changes
<seb128> so it was not installed before
<seb128> that log has everything which got un-installed, installed, reconfigured, etc
<kenvandine> at least since the 1st
<pitti> ugh
<seb128> so your box had it yesterday morning and not yesterday night and it's not listed there?
<seb128> are you sure you booted the correct install?
<kenvandine> ok, the older log shows it upgraded on 04-07
<seb128> or that you didn't have a local install out of the packaging system you were using?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> nothing shows it getting removed in the logs
<seb128> that doesn't make sense
<kenvandine> i see an upgraded in the older log
<seb128> the log is the dpkg one
<kenvandine> and an install today
<kenvandine>  /var/log/dpkg.log.1 and  /var/log/dpkg.log
<seb128> ie it should be listed there whatever package tool you used
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> the status was rc before i installed it today
<seb128> my bet is local database corruption then
<kenvandine> The following NEW packages will be installed:
<kenvandine>   evolution-indicator
<seb128> check your disk
<kenvandine> :(
<seb128> there is just no way something got removed and not logged
<seb128> and especially no way that update-manager does un-install something
<seb128> it's designed to not do that
<kenvandine> yeah, it wasn't uninstalled
<kenvandine> so weird
<kenvandine> according to the log
<seb128> check your ram and disks
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: so you have it installed... i wonder why it is broken for you
<seb128> how broken?
<seb128> broken like "the panel shows an error and doesn't load the applet"
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: it is present and selected in the evo plugins dialog
<seb128> or broken like "doesn't list clients"?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: so you see Evolution Indicator in the list of plugins?
<rickspencer3> seb128: evo is not appearing in the indicator
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: yes, see above
<seb128> rickspencer3: what is working before? did you change anything since?
<seb128> what -> was
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: ok... i didn't have the plugin listed there...
<rickspencer3> seb128: yes, it was working before
<kenvandine> so you have /usr/lib64/evolution/2.26/plugins/org-freedesktop-evolution-indicator.eplug
<rickspencer3> according the dpkg log the last time it was updated was on April 13
<kenvandine> tedg says it was updated recently
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: yes
<seb128> rickspencer3: did you try restarting evolution in case?
<rickspencer3> seb128: yes, this has been happening for some number of days
<rickspencer3> I have restarted, etc...
<seb128> do you get the issue in a guest session?
<rickspencer3> seb128: dunno
<rickspencer3> I suspect that the plugin version and the indicator applet version are out of synch
<kenvandine> no, that shouldn't do it
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: did the interface between the two change at any point recently?
<kenvandine> it was a minor bug fix
<kenvandine> one line change
<seb128> rickspencer3: somebody else would have noticed if that was an interface change
<seb128> rickspencer3: I would start trying a guest session
<seb128> that's the quicker way to know if the issue is due to some config or not
<seb128> just start evo there, putting a random email configure no account and sendmail and when you are at the mailbox screen look the icon
<kenvandine> that's how i  figured out it wasn't installed :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: I added a bullet point to your U1 agenda for the team meeting
<kenvandine> ok
<rickspencer3> was hoping you get educate us about what the U1 team's goals were for Jaunty during the meeting
<kenvandine> for jaunty?
<jcastro> time machine time!
<kenvandine> :)
<artir> idea: add a launchpad registration as "Ubuntu Online Services" in ubiquity, that eases launchpad and U1 use
<rickspencer3> desktop team meeting in 5 minutes
<mclasen> pitti: did you ever look at my update of your gconf client-side translations patch ?
<pitti> mclasen: yes, I did; thanks for cleaning it up
<mclasen> I want to land that upstream
<mclasen> but I need someone to lobby for the prerequisite intltool changes...
<pitti> so far I only applied your cleaned up gconf patch, haven't checked the intltool one yet
<pitti> I'd certainly welcome changing it in intltool itself, that would be so much cleaner
<bryce> morning
<pitti> hey bryce, good morning
<rickspencer3> Team meeting all?
<calc> hi
<rickspencer3> awe: bryce: calc: kenvandine: pitti: seb128: ArneGoetje: Riddell:
<rickspencer3> did I miss anyone?
<seb128> there
<rickspencer3> asac is at a concert I think
<pitti> o/
<Riddell> hola
<rickspencer3> tkamppeter: hi
<rickspencer3> let's go
 * kenvandine here
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-05-12
<rickspencer3> Outstanding actions from last meeting
<rickspencer3> both are done, see the wiki please
<rickspencer3> next ... Current Jaunty Tax?
<rickspencer3> What, if anything, are we spending time on related to Jaunty?
<rickspencer3> Robert already told me about the SRU for totem
<rickspencer3> pitti: seb128: is that going to happen?
<seb128> "tax"?
<calc> the only thing i am still doing is backporting OOo packages in the ppa for h/i/j to make it easier to catch bugs in the new packages (not too much trouble to do)
<pitti> rickspencer3: currently waiting on SRU justification; don't know yet
<rickspencer3> seb128: sorry, I'm trying to discover what resources we are still expending on Jaunty as apposed to moving on to Karmic
<seb128> I'm in favor of it but seems pitti is trying to put the sru bar higher for stable GNOME updates
<pitti> s/GNOME//
<Riddell> I'd like to get our network-manager-plasmoid backported and SRUed into jaunty
<seb128> I included GNOME on purpose there
<pitti> in particular, put it back to where it was before hardy :)
<Riddell> trouble is it's roughtly described as "generally less broken then the jaunty version" which isn't perfect SRU material
<seb128> I think it deserves a special case since it's what we ship by default and they have freeze process which make bug fix stable usually
<pitti> rickspencer3: so, there'll be some moderate SRU activity still, of course
<pitti> we won't get it to zero
<rickspencer3> pitti: ack, I just want everyone to be aware of where it is being expended right now
<rickspencer3> pitti: do we need to discuss the Totem SRU now?
<bryce> i'm finding that I'm spending a higher than normal amount of time doing jaunty stuff, mostly due to the -intel mess
<pitti> rickspencer3: we shouldn't do it in this meeting, IMHO
<seb128> rickspencer3: ok, GNOME wise robert has been working on totem and totem-pl-parser updates and I think that will be all from his side, maybe a gcalctool bug fix version still later
<seb128> rickspencer3: I plan to sponsor a gvfs ssh permission fix and some evolution fixes for other crashers
<seb128> that should be all for GNOME
<rickspencer3> any others (besides obviously the ones we don't know about yet)?
<seb128> I would "budget" one or two hours for that
<pitti> we still need to finish the 965 SRU
<pitti> besides that, I'm not aware of other major issues
<rickspencer3> ack
<rickspencer3> thanks all
<tkamppeter> hi
<rickspencer3> sounds moderate to me
<rickspencer3> moving on ...
<rickspencer3> UDS
<rickspencer3> please fill out your blueprint summaries by eow this week if possible
<rickspencer3> please let pitti know if you have any questions, etc... about that (or me if pitti is not available)
<rickspencer3> sessions are scheduled as of now, but expect some churn in the schedule for the next week or so
<rickspencer3> next topic: Team Meeting Next Week
<rickspencer3> I assume that we should just cancel as folks will be traveling to all hands, etc...
<rickspencer3> thoughts?
<pitti> +1
<seb128> +1
<awe_> +1
<kenvandine> +1
<pitti> we will be at somehands, too
<calc> +1
<rickspencer3> kewl
<bryce> +1
<kenvandine> those of us already there can grab a beer
<seb128> somehands?
 * calc not sure if he will even be at the hotel yet at that point
<kenvandine> :)
<tkamppeter> OK (but I am not on all hands).
<rickspencer3> we'll have like a 5 hour meeting in the hotel bar that night, perhaps
<rickspencer3> tkamppeter: ack
<calc> rickspencer3: heh
<awe_> somehands == mgr types
<pitti> seb128: monday/tuesday
<rickspencer3> see you at UDS though, we'll make up for it then
<pitti> not sure yet what's going on there
<seb128> pitti: ah ok
<rickspencer3> hmm
 * kenvandine is glad he has all of his hands
<rickspencer3> I guess I should have mentioned that
<rickspencer3> rickspencer3: and pitti will be at all day meetings on Monday and Tuesday
<pitti> sounds like .. fun :)
<rickspencer3> so would be a good time to etiher take a day off, or get real work done ;)
<seb128> or travel ;-)
<crevette> hello
<rickspencer3> let me know if you have any questions about some hands via /msg
<rickspencer3> next topic: Ubuntu One
 * rickspencer3 hands mic to kenvandine
<kenvandine> it's alive!
<kenvandine> went beta yesterday, by invitation
<awe_> cool!
<kenvandine> anyone can request an invite, and we are approving those in batches
<kenvandine> to control scalling
<kenvandine> make sure it can handle the load, etc
<pitti> I filed a grave bug 5 hours ago, and Facundo committed the fix now
<kenvandine> just FYI, if people have questions you can send them to #ubuntuone
<pitti> they are really responsive \o/
<ubottu> Bug 5 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/5 is private
<kenvandine> pitti: yeah... i file at least one of those a day :)
<kenvandine> they are speedy
<artir> what is bug 5?
<ubottu> Bug 5 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/5 is private
<rickspencer3> bug five!
<rickspencer3> oh no, it's private, thanks ubottu
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: i didn't understand your scope question for jaunty?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: what are the functional goals for Jaunty?
<kenvandine> ok
<crevette> rickspencer3: bug 5 is 'world domination'
<rickspencer3> is there a spec so we can see what they are shooting for for instance
<ubottu> Bug 5 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/5 is private
<kenvandine> file sync, sharing, etc
<kenvandine> also
<kenvandine> the next thing on the horizon that i know they are working on is screen sharing via u1
<awe_> kenvandine: where should we file bugs?  I managed to crash my system shortly after the meeting started...after launching the ubuntuone applet?
<kenvandine> http://ubuntuone.com/support
<awe_> thanks
<kenvandine> takes you to LP :)
<kenvandine> also
<pitti> also, applet -> right click -> file a bug
<kenvandine> any questions folks have, feel free to ping me as well... i have spent quite a bit of time in it now
<pitti> it has an apport hook as well (ubuntu-bug), but be aware that the log files tend to be huuuge
<kenvandine> pitti: yeah, it should be a little better now
<kenvandine> they rotate daily
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: I got the impression that other than file synching they are not committed to anything else for Jaunty, though they would like to do more, is that correct?
<kenvandine> but still in debug mode
<kenvandine> they aren't thinking in our milestones
<kenvandine> so when they are done with a service, they will role it out
<kenvandine> it will be up to us what gets included in karmic
<kenvandine> so for now it is more like a 3rd party app
<rickspencer3> hmm
<kenvandine> as they add services there should be new packages for them, etc
<rickspencer3> I feel that we are committed to supporting them to ship file synching in Karmic, assuming their quality is good
<kenvandine> client side
<pitti> kenvandine: can you put a little pressure on them to start using serious test suites?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: right
<pitti> I discovered an endless 100% cpu spin loop today due to a broken symlink
<kenvandine> pitti: they do unit testing
<kenvandine> we are working on more functional tests
<pitti> stuff like that is totally discoverable by regression tests
<kenvandine> basically what we expect of it before we say it goes in karmic
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i wonder how their coverage is
<kenvandine> i will bring it up
<pitti> getting sync into karmic would be great indeed
<pitti> bug reports like those should get a test written first to reproduce
<rickspencer3> pitti: kenvandine: could you think of it as "how to help them with testing" as apposed to "putting pressure on them"?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: yes :)
<pitti> yes
<rickspencer3> I think they probably have enough pressure they put on themselves :)
<rickspencer3> let's make this "win-win", as I think this functionality has huge value for users
<rickspencer3> :)
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> ok, moving on
<rickspencer3> </preaching_to_choir>
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: that it for U1?
<kenvandine> yup
<rickspencer3> Riddell: Alpha1 Status ?
 * rickspencer3 hands mic to Riddell (acting release manager this week)
<Riddell> along with pitti I am :)
<Riddell> it's still pretty messy
<pitti> <pitti> both the kernel and OO.o are still in the process of becoming installable
<pitti> <pitti> and we won't have live CDs (no aufs in kernel)
<Riddell> kernel, openoffice, d-i all still getting into place
<pitti> <pitti> Riddell: I guess by tomorrow we should have alternates for testing
<calc> several of the ports buildds are still way behind due to the linux-libc-dev issue last week
<Riddell> and once everything installs who knows if it'll even run :)
<pitti> we'll entirely ignore ports
<calc> pitti: is the no aufs issue solvable in time for alpha 2 to have live cds?
<pitti> I think ubuntu/kubuntu alternates will be just about everything we'll get
<pitti> calc: I hope so; it needs to be ported to 2.6.30, I guess
<calc> ok
<pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/karmic_probs.html FWIW
<rickspencer3> Riddell: pitti: thanks for managing while Steve is on a much deserved holiday
<rickspencer3> sweet segue to the next topic
<rickspencer3> Taking Care or Yourself
<pitti> s/or/of/?
<rickspencer3> just a reminder that Ubuntu is a marathon, and not sprint
 * kenvandine slows his stride a little for a sip of water
<rickspencer3> I encourage you all to consider your work/life balance during this summer, and if you feel that you cannot take proper time off due to work commitments, speak to me privately so that we can change that
<rickspencer3> make sense?
<seb128> speaking about holidays the karmic sprint week is fixed now?
 * rickspencer3 needs to take own medicine 
<pitti> yeah, that would be good to know
<pitti> for planning summer holidays
<rickspencer3> seb128: yes, the time is fixed
<artir> Mark wants you happy!
<rickspencer3> thought we covered this, in a previous meeting
<rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to confirm dates of distro sprint with randa and send to team
<rickspencer3> (I can dig through my emails as well)
<rickspencer3> I believe it's the first week of August
<rickspencer3> not sure where though
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: you told me on irc... but i haven't seen any email
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: hmm, my bad, I'll follow up asap
<kenvandine> thx
<rickspencer3> in any case, please know that I support you all taking your alloted holidays, and also swap days for when you've been burning the midnight oil
<rickspencer3> (10:02:20 AM) randa: rickspencer3: 3rd Agust to 7th August
<rickspencer3> there's the dates from randa, so no email (except in the meeting minutes)
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<pitti> looking forward to seeing you all again!
<bryce> do we know where the sprint will be?  London?
<rickspencer3> bryce: don't know yet
<rickspencer3> sorry
<rickspencer3> pitti: si
<rickspencer3> muy bien!
<calc> bryce: iirc distro is too big for london now
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to contact desktop team about sprint location when it is determined
<pitti> thanks everyone
<rickspencer3> meeting adjourned?
<bryce> thanks
<seb128> thanks everybody
<pitti> seb128: FYI, I filed devkit-disks and libatasmart MIRs (http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt)
<pitti> seb128: you don't happen to be in the mood for filing a g-d-u one? :-)
<awe_> see ya
<seb128> pitti: good thanks
<seb128> pitti: I can do
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti back
 * pitti -> dinner
<seb128> pitti: enjoy
<chrisccoulson> i can't get gnome-panel from debian experimental to build in karmic :/
<awe_> pitti: ping
<pitti> hi awe_
<awe_> ping: I need help setting up pbuilder for karmic.  I added jaunty-backports via sw srcs, but don't know which pkg to install to get the debootstrap?
<pitti> awe_: "debootstrap"
<awe_> ;/
<pitti> you need 1.0.13~jaunty1 from jaunty-backports
<pitti> then it should work
<awe_> ah, I saw jaunty in the version and assumed it was for jaunty.  not karmic.   ok, i'll install that one.
<pitti> awe_: that means "it's 1.0.13 backported _for_ jaunty"
<pitti> awe_: we also have backports for hardy and intrepid
<awe_> ok
<vuntz> dobey: hrm, I have a trivial gtkhtml2 patch in an openSUSE package. Want to commit it?
<awe_> pitti: that did the trick.  thanks!
<vuntz> dobey: https://api.opensuse.org/public/source/GNOME:Factory/libgtkhtml/libgtkhtml.patch?rev=f20337ade0cc943ff7e4422817bbf45a
<pitti> awe_: no problem
<vuntz> dobey: (not sure if you'll make a release in the future?)
<pitti> awe_: don't feel like upgrading to karmic just yet? :-)
<awe_> pitti: yea, not so much...
<awe_> karmic, soon come, as they say in jamaica!
<james_w> "The main developer is making PolicyKit1 a similar thing to PolicyKit, but will be a daemon rather than a library"
<james_w> I wasn't aware it was a change like that
<pitti> I just read about this today myself
<james_w> also, why not call it 2, even if 1 was never released
<pitti> came as a surprise to me
<james_w> I'll try and dig around in it before UDS so that I can talk sensibly about it
<mclasen> its described here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/PolicyKitOne#Scope
<mclasen> err, scratch the #Scope
<james_w> thanks
<seb128> pitti: bug #375615
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375615 in gnome-disk-utility "gnome-disk-utility should be promoted to main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375615
<seb128> pitti: and kees approved devicekit-disks already ;-)
<pitti> nice
<pitti> seb128: all promoted now; bring the crack on! :-)
<dobey> vuntz: you can go ahead and commit it
<seb128> \o/
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> crevette: do you read your bug emails?
<crevette> since 1 month no
<seb128> ok, so you have a comment on your sponsoring request about the bluez update
<seb128> it would be nice to either update the package or unsubscribe the team if you don't want to work on the change
<crevette>  ah I was reading this one actually
<crevette> and a new upstream reslease wias issued in between
<seb128> ok so you can update and fix the issue? ;-)
<crevette> I'll try to see why these two plugins are not shipped
<seb128> cool
<crevette> I'm sorry
<crevette> I forgot that was bothering people to have team subscribed
<seb128> no need to be sorry there is nothing wrong
<crevette> I should have removed them
<seb128> I was just wondering if you read the comment
<crevette> should I put all upstream release Changes in the changelog between last package and current version (so 4.38 which was never packaged) ?
<seb128> you can use your 4.38 update and do an another upload over this one
<seb128> so both entries will be listed in the changelog
<seb128> ie use the 4.38 source and use dch to add a new one
<seb128> Laney: hey, want to review bug #372395 perhaps?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 372395 in gnome-bluetooth "[karmic] Please sponsor gnome-bluetooth 2.27.5" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372395
<chrisccoulson> ugh devkit-disks is polling my floppy drive every couple of seconds
<chrisccoulson> nice
<chrisccoulson> maybe i shud get rid of such old technology
<seb128> chrisccoulson: calling devkit old technology? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol. i was referring to the floppy drive ;)
<seb128> just jocking, but it's good to know who to ping about floppy bugs
<seb128> I don't have any floppy drive for years
<seb128> who need floppy drives when you get usb keys? ;-)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: ahah, you're stuck. We will flood you about floppy bugs :)
<seb128> oh didrocks!
<chrisccoulson> i havent used my floppy drive in a long time actually
<seb128> you made a mistake by showing that you were there ;-p
<chrisccoulson> but it's part of my card reader ;)
<didrocks> seb128: don't scare me :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson: oh, it's too late to try that trick ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson: you will get floppy bugs assigned, ah ah ah ;-)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: nice try ^^
<chrisccoulson> haha. i'm really looking forward to it ;)
 * didrocks is running during this timeâ¦ ;)
<seb128> first one is to figure why devicekit poll on floppy every second ;-)
<seb128> didrocks: WAIT
<seb128> didrocks: ups, I meant "hello" ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: caught ^^
<seb128> didrocks: do you have gnome-python-desktop on your list?
<didrocks> seb128: for refactoring, you mean?
<seb128> no, for merging
<seb128> but that's equivalent debian splitted all the binaries
<seb128> I'm looking forward it because it means we can get libgnomeprint* out of the CD
<didrocks> seb128: I don't find it at https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html
<didrocks> that's why I was just thinking it was refactoring
<seb128> didrocks: that's because debian still has 2.24 and we have 2.26
<seb128> and mergomatic only lists what is newer in debian
<seb128> but we want to sync the split
<didrocks> seb128: ok, so, we need a manual merging :)
<didrocks> ok
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> you use the mergomatic diffs usually?
<seb128> I only do manual merges, I'm a bit old school apparently
<didrocks> seb128: that means that the package depending on libgnomeprint is seperated and not included in the CD seed?
<didrocks> seb128: I just use MoM for convenient download
<didrocks> I merge manually too
<seb128> that means most of the known universe moved to gtkprint
<seb128> but gnome-print-desktop still have gnome-print bindings so it brings the lib on the CD
<seb128> gnome-python-desktop rather
<seb128> I did some splitting before jaunty but it was jugged not worth the trouble to go through rdepends to fix those
<didrocks> ok, in debian version there is an independant package gnome-print-desktop from gnome-python-desktop source package, right?
<seb128> yes, they did split all the bindings in different binaries
<seb128> didrocks: http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gnome-python-desktop.html look on the left
<didrocks> ok, so the once which will depend on gnomeprint* will not be included on the CD
<didrocks> yes,
<seb128> well, only the binary using gnomeprint.so will depend on it
<seb128> which means nothing on the CD indeed
<seb128> gnome-games was the only one using it and we patched it before jaunty
<seb128> same for gtksourceview
<didrocks> ok, and removing lib in deprecation is always good :)
<seb128> indeed!
<didrocks> so python-gnomeprint will not be on the CD, right?
<seb128> and don't bother added a -dbg for each binary
<seb128> one for the source will do, should make the job easier
<seb128> right
<seb128> python-gnomeprint and python-gtksourceview will not be on the CD
<seb128> they might move to universe
<didrocks> ok, that's more clear now :)
<didrocks> hum?
<didrocks> is it possible to have a source package in main and binaries in universe?
<pitti> yes
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> ok, great, consequently :)
<maxb> It wouldn't make much sense unless *some* of the binaries were in main, though
<didrocks> it was for yesterday, isn't it? :)
<seb128> didrocks: no, it was for a week ago
<didrocks> ^^
<seb128> ;)
<seb128> didrocks: joke aside don't hurry, I don't think we want to disrupt the archive before alpha1
<seb128> ie next week will do
<seb128> or after uds
<seb128> I'm not a fan of disrupting the archive while everybody is at uds either
<seb128> I want to use the evening there to chat with people and collect beer at the bar not to fix broken depends ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: I will try to have something for tomorrow, even if we don't ship it in alpha 1 or in the very few days, but I have more free time now that SCU is released (it was today \o/)
<seb128> SCU?
<pitti> mmmm beer
<didrocks> sorry, Simple Comme ubuntu
<seb128> oh ok, congrats for the new edition ;-)
 * chrisccoulson buys pitti and seb128 a beer
<didrocks> seb128: thanks, I'm released from writing for 5 monthes now. That's what I celebrate :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson: thanks!
<seb128> chrisccoulson: coming to uds?
<chrisccoulson> i'm not
<seb128> shame
<didrocks> that's so easy ^^
<seb128> chrisccoulson: you should really apply for MOTU and be invited to next uds
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll try and apply this week
<seb128> excellent
<seb128> didrocks: I exchange you a jaunty CD against a SCU book ;-)
 * seb128 runs
<didrocks> seb128: that can be the deal. I can bring some at UDS ;)
<seb128> bring at least one so I can have a look
<seb128> I didn't bought any ubuntu book so far
<didrocks> right. I will :)
<seb128> I just got an "ubuntu efficace" from ploum some years ago
<didrocks> seb128: you know, Eyrolles still ship the same "ubuntu efficace" book
<didrocks> it's on 6.10 IIRC.
<seb128> he got the editor to send me a book as a thanks for replying to some questions
<didrocks> that was kind. I will give you framabook. Sure you will do nothing with it, but well ^^
<seb128> framabook?
<didrocks> seb128: framabook is the Free Book collection of framasoft
<didrocks> SCU is one of them
<seb128> ah ok
<didrocks> http://www.framabook.org/
<seb128> don't bother giving me a book, you can probably find users that will make better use of it
<seb128> give one to huats perhaps ;-)
<didrocks> yeah, sure huats need it :-)
<seb128> I heard that he's trying to make some business around ubuntu
<seb128> that could be useful to him there ;-)
<didrocks> exactly ; hope for him it will works :)
<huats> rrrggghhhh seb128
<huats> :P
<seb128> hey huats
<seb128> how are you?
<huats> seb128: great
<seb128> good ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, huats: come with some workflow ideas to uds, I want us to decide on a better team workflow there for updates
<huats> seb128: ok I will
<huats> :)
<huats> definitly a good idea
<didrocks> seb128: I'm thinking about that regularly, to be honest :)
<didrocks> and yes, it's needed as the team grows up
<huats> seb128: I might have another trainig to do ...
<seb128> didrocks: I'm thinking about it often
<huats> well for the moment I haven't signed any contract
<huats> but 2-3 are almost done :)
<seb128> we need something similar to the debian page listing debian, upstream and ubuntu versions
<seb128> huats: excellent
<seb128> and we need a way to claim work
<huats> seb128: the page that norsetto did was a good start I think
<seb128> right, it's not much different of the debian one
<huats> yep
<huats> and there was the possibility of comment IIRC
<didrocks> it just needs some bindings for claiming work
<seb128> we just need a bzr to store the todolist
<huats> yep
<seb128> and a small python wrapper to fetch and list changes and add some new ones there
<didrocks> seb128: do you want I put a specification in LP for this and schedule at karmic UDS in a blank session (and free hours for all of us?)
<seb128> I'm still not decided between using bzr and text listing or wiki of launchpad bugs though
<didrocks> s/us/uds
<crevette> something integrated with launchpad would be great (for authencation, team management, ...)
<seb128> didrocks: no, don't bother, I think the schedule is full for that already and we don't need a full room for that, just some desktop team people sitting together
<didrocks> seb128: right. I will come with some proposal though
<seb128> we could probably do a french mafia meeting at the bar for this one ;-)
<huats> seb128: YEAH
<didrocks> the bar is a good place for decision ;)
<huats> I like that idea :)
<didrocks> huats: I was sure you would like this :p
<didrocks> well, time to go to bed
<didrocks> have a good night guys o/
<seb128> didrocks: 'night
<didrocks> thanks ^^
<huats> night didrocks
<seb128> pitti: is gnome-mount totally deprecated in the devicekit world?
<pitti> seb128: yes
<pitti> seb128: you can use devkit-disks --mount for CLI mounting
<seb128> pitti: ok, so I guess it's not worth sponsoring bug #325315
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 325315 in gnome-mount "Flushing Cache notification too verbose" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/325315
<pitti> and gvfs uses libgdu
<pitti> seb128: no, that's why I ignored it as well
<seb128> I will unsubscribe the sponsor team now
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> seb128: ok i will look
<seb128> Laney: thanks
<Laney> btw I am in France right now \o/
<pitti> good night everyone
<seb128> 'night pitti
<seb128> Laney: oh? what are you doing there? holidays?
<Laney> seb128: I'm at a conference in aussois
<seb128> is that a real town? ;-)
<crevette> seb128: I can't un-subscribe sponsor team it seems, I don't have a '-'
<Laney> it's a ski town
<Laney> so no, it's not real
<seb128> crevette: right you need to be part of the team for that, don't bother just work on the update ;-)
<seb128> Laney: ah ok
<crevette> working in a ski station....
<crevette> :)
<seb128> crevette: he's reviewing your gnome-bluetooth update so be nice ;-)
<Laney> REJECT
<crevette> ah this big mess
<crevette> Laney: no problem :)
 * seb128 kicks crevette
<Laney> heheh
<Laney> just came back to my room to relax before bed
<Laney> what better way/
 * crevette should go to sleep as he's night technical night duty
<crevette> hmm redhat as a udev rule to start bluetooth only when ther is a bluetooth device
<crevette> that would be nice to have
<crevette> ah ahaha
<crevette> seb128: I answered for bluez package
<seb128> crevette: thanks
<seb128> crevette: is that a new source tarball?
<crevette> seb128: sorry I don't get you ?
<crevette> this is a new upstream release
<seb128> where are those shipped now? you said a new binary
<crevette> ah no
<crevette> this is into the bluetoothd binary
<crevette> which is the service daemon
<seb128> the bluez source builds no such binary
<seb128> you mean the code is in the bin itself now?
<crevette> dpkg -S bluetoothd
<crevette> bluez: /usr/sbin/bluetoothd
<crevette> bluez: /usr/share/man/man8/bluetoothd.8.gz
<crevette> so bluetoothd is provided by bluez
<crevette> and the plugin binary code is merged into the bluetoothd code at build time
<crevette> for "hal" and "service"
<crevette> don't ask me why
<crevette> :)
<crevette> I don't understand the rationale behind
<crevette> I need to sleep
<crevette> see you
<seb128> Laney: you could perhaps sponsor the change on #333462 too?
<Laney> bug 333462
<Laney> oh, no bot
<Laney> I'll have to look at bluetooht properly later
<seb128> Laney: no hurry
<Laney> is that patch upstream?
<seb128> I don't know
<Laney> no worries, I'll ask
<seb128> I'm just trying to clean the sponsoring list a bit and I know we got several duplicates about this one since jaunty
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - debian dropped the scrollkeeper build-dep from gnome-panel
<chrisccoulson> but i cant get it to build without that
<seb128> chrisccoulson: did they add a --disable-scrollkeeper too?
<chrisccoulson> and i can't get the debian source package to build in a sid pbuilder either
<seb128> what error do you get?
<chrisccoulson> there's a --disable-scrollkeeper in debian/rules alreadyt
<seb128> what debian version did you try?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - http://paste.ubuntu.com/170986/
<chrisccoulson> this is with version 2.26.0-1
<chrisccoulson> it builds fine with scrollkeeper, and also builds with rarian-compat too
<seb128> chrisccoulson: http://experimental.debian.net/build.php?pkg=gnome-panel confirms that
<chrisccoulson> i didn't know that existed
<chrisccoulson> thanks:)
<seb128> chrisccoulson: debian do binary uploads whoever did the build and upload had it installed
<seb128> chrisccoulson: the pts is useful
<seb128> http://packages.qa.debian.org/source
<seb128> where "source" is your source
<seb128> the buildd logs are on the right
<seb128> that's the "exp" in the list
<chrisccoulson> that's useful to know
<chrisccoulson> so we can't drop the build-dep on scrollkeeper then
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> but use rarian-compat rather
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll do that
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-13
<pitti> Good morning
<crevette> hello
<crevette> good morning
<didrocks> morning o/
<seb128> hello everybody
<didrocks> hi seb128, did you have a good night?
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> very good, you?
<didrocks> long one. So, yes :)
<seb128> pitti: hey there ;-) libical sru got two comment saying that the update works, could you move it to -updates today?
<pitti> seb128: yay nice
<seb128> it will make easier to sort issues that people are having because they didn't get the update yet and other crashers
<seb128> thanks
 * chrisccoulson wishes he had more positive feedback on his tracker SRU
<robert_ancell> hi all#
<pitti> hey robert_ancell
 * robert_ancell found totem very hard to merge with debian.  So many changes...
<pitti> robert_ancell: what are you looking at, the MoM output?
<pitti> robert_ancell: I usually do interdiff -z -p1 debian.diff.gz ubuntu.diff.gz
<pitti> and then see which of the delta is important
<robert_ancell> pitti: it was more deciphering what the changes were, why they were done, and if they were debian/ubuntu specific
<robert_ancell> I files a bug with Debian with the changes in Ubuntu that I think are applicable to them
<robert_ancell> And I want to push the BBC changes upstream as there's at least 3 versions of that patch floating around
<pitti> oh yes, I guess that caused a lot of delta
<pitti> robert_ancell: another major thing might be the codec install stuff?
<seb128> hello robert_ancell
<seb128> sorry I had to reboot to test changes
<robert_ancell> seb128: hey
<seb128> pitti: the codec install is upstream gstreamer code
<seb128> pitti: we only customize the application called using a configure option
<pitti> ah, I thougth we needed debian/ubuntu stuff for calling g-a-i
<pitti> I keep mixing that up
<seb128> robert_ancell: I'm not sure about BBC plugin in debian, they don't have a good infrastructure for translations
<robert_ancell> Hey do you guys know why when I tried to put GDL in BZR I got the following error:
<robert_ancell> bob@alchemy2:~/bzr/gdl$ bzr push lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gdl/ubuntu
<robert_ancell> bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gdl/ubuntu": No such project: gdl
<seb128> because there is no gdl project registered on launchpad
<seb128> that's a stupid limitation if you ask me
<pitti> at some time LP will grow package branches
<seb128> but it's easy enough to register the project
<pitti> but for now we only have branches on projects
<seb128> we do it to be able to open upstream tasks anyway
<seb128> just nobody came and did this one yet
<robert_ancell> ok, cool
<robert_ancell> how to register a project?
<seb128> https://edge.launchpad.net/projects/+new
<seb128> hum, maybe not wait
<seb128> I think that's this one
<pitti> right, it is
<seb128> I've not done that for a while so I'm not sure now, but I think that's this one
<robert_ancell> ok, registering now
<robert_ancell> that seemed to work, thanks
<robert_ancell> I'm heading off soon, anything anyone want to cajole me into doing tomorrow?
<seb128> robert_ancell: what did you do today? managed to get the totem updates done?
<seb128> robert_ancell: do you still have things on your list to merge or update?
<robert_ancell> seb128: yes, I've done all the merges/updates I had listed
<seb128> did you get the gdm merge on your list?
<seb128> I think I mentioned it the other day to do but I'm not sure if you are interested in that one
<robert_ancell> seb128: no, when I asked you yesterday it sounded like we should discuss at UDS first due to the missing features
<robert_ancell> I wouldn't say gdm excites me
<seb128> that's the new gdm discussion
<seb128> we might want to merge the current one with debian, ie rebase our version on their current one
<seb128> ok so don't bother, it's a fairly non trivial one and I know the package I will do it
<robert_ancell> ok
<seb128> robert_ancell: I will drop you an email with some suggestions for tomorrow later
<robert_ancell> seb128: ok, thanks.
<robert_ancell> see you guys tomorrow! (two days and then I'll catch you all in Barcelona!)
<seb128> and we really need to have a team discussion about better workflow at uds
<robert_ancell> two work days that is
<seb128> yeah
<pitti> see you robert_ancell, good night!
<seb128> have fun, see you tomorrow
<robert_ancell> later pitti!
 * seb128 does some sponsoring
<seb128> lut crevette
<crevette> hi there
<crevette> hey seb128, thanks for the kick in the butt on the bluez bug :)
<crevette> as I took a hal day off to take care of my son, I could manage to update to 4.39
<seb128> you're welcome ;-)
<seb128> ah good
<crevette> hey new gvfs
<seb128> indeed
<crevette> seb128: ah btw I had to sleep yesterday evening, did I answer to your questions?
<seb128> yes thanks
<seb128> didrocks: dunno how busy you will be today but do you think you can add "review bug #375843" to your list?
<crevette> okay great
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375843 in anjuta "Update to 2.27.1" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375843
<seb128> didrocks: that's a sponsoring request
<seb128> hum ok
 * seb128 bounced robert_ancell sponsoring requests to "needwork"
<seb128> pitti: do we have karmic retracers yet?
<pitti> seb128: ah, no, we don't (apport is not enabled yet)
<pitti> we need to build a karmic chroot
<seb128> right, that's what I though
 * pitti adds to TODO list
<seb128> I might have a look this afternoon if I'm done with other things on my list
<seb128> I will let you know before starting working on that if I do
<pitti> cool, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: ok. I do it just after lunch (but will be able to upload @home)
<seb128> didrocks: don't bother if it depends on the new gdl I didn't check
<seb128> that one is not ready for upload
<seb128> didrocks: btw I comment on the gnome-python-extras bug
<didrocks> seb128: ok
<didrocks> ah, looking at it
<chrisccoulson> should any application depend on a particular icon theme?
<chrisccoulson> i'm looking at bug 375917
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375917 in cheese "Cheese should be dependend on gnome-icon-theme" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375917
<chrisccoulson> shouldn't it ship it's own fallback icons?
<james_w> I believe so
<asac> yeah
<asac> so from what i read in bug, it definitly shouldnt behave that badly if there is no specific icon theme imo
<chrisccoulson> i can't confirm it yet because i'm, at work, but if what the reporter says is true then it should ship it's own icons then rather than depending on gnome-icon-theme
<didrocks> seb128: I answered on gnome-python-extras bug
<seb128> didrocks: python-gnome2-extras-dbg has lot of .so in jaunty though for all the components
<seb128> didrocks: your merge only has 1
<seb128> no?
<didrocks> seb128: I checked for gtkhml2. I thought it was related. Let me check the dbg package.
<didrocks> so, gtkspell.so
<pitti> seb128: looking into retracer chroots now; I'd like to have them anyway for checking some uninstallability bits
<didrocks> is on its own package
<seb128> pitti: ok
<didrocks> the package is not build with gda, gdl either, gksu is on its own package. I must have a look for trayicon
<didrocks> also
<seb128> hum?
<didrocks> seb128: ok, so. I have to find a way to include them in the dbg package
<didrocks> and so, reshaping all in one.
<seb128> I don't understand what you are saying
<seb128> you didn't split all those dbg did you?
<didrocks> no, but as thos libs are now in seperated packages and I didn't create one -dbg one for each, they are just not built
<didrocks> (the debug version)
<seb128> right
<seb128> I would expect having all those dbg in -dbg though
<didrocks> I have to make a trick in debian/rules so, gathering everything
<didrocks> yes
<seb128> ok cool
<didrocks> I'm working on that right now :)
<didrocks> I think it will be easy, regarding debian/rules
<Ampelbein> seb128: good day! have you had a chance to look at gnome-utils? I pushed the final change to https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amoog/gnome-utils/devel and I think it's ok now. I tested multiple times and it works.
<seb128> hi Ampelbein, I will do that after lunch
<Ampelbein> ok
<pitti> seb128: karmic chroots created (i386/amd64), let's see how they perform
<pitti> seb128: I expect that the existing karmic crash reports will just be invalidated
<seb128> pitti: you rock, yeah it's ok since are moving fast in karmic anyway
<didrocks> seb128: I will do the change tonight as there is no hurry. I'm some kind of under fire today :)
<seb128> didrocks: ok, good luck with the fire fighting then
<didrocks> thanks
<lool> asac: Hey, I'm still running jaunty and I wanted to try out firefox-3.5; it segfaults after copying over my profile
<lool> asac: Is this of any interest, or should I simply move on to karmic?
<lool> same thing without gnome-support
<asac> lool: does it work better with a fresh profile?
<asac> like moving whole .mozilla away?
<seb128> vuntz: so gnome-panel has 6 seconds of busy time on my laptop config
<seb128> vuntz: when it's starting I mean, it's 1 second with empty bars, 3 extra seconds for the menu use and almost not difference for the other standard panel applets
<seb128> vuntz: then some small bits for other applets
<seb128> so half of the startup time is due to the menu applet apparently
<vuntz> seb128: can you try something fun?
<seb128> yes
<vuntz> seb128: sudo mv /usr/share/applications /usr/share/applications.test
<vuntz> seb128: hrm. Actually, no
<seb128> let's try
<seb128> I'm using kvm for testing ;-)
<vuntz> this will break gnome-session, I guess
<seb128> why?
<vuntz> it will look for gnome-panel.desktop and won't find it
<seb128> the session components are in /usr/share/gnome/autostart
<seb128> hum right
<seb128> I can move everything which is not in the session though to try
<vuntz> seb128: well, yeah, you get the idea :-)
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<pitti> kenvandine: if the applet never stops spinning, but syncdaemon.log is quiet, did you see that before?
<mnemo> pitti: that happens right now on my machine as well (for u1), it spun all night and I less less than 1mb of files
<mnemo> s/less/have/
<pitti> ah, disconnecting and connecting seems to have help
<kenvandine> pitti: yes
<pitti> ed
<pitti> it might have gotten confused because I just switched networks several times
<pitti> this needs network-manager integration
<kenvandine> pitti: i don't think that is it..  my desktop box tends to do that
<kenvandine> pitti: i think it does
<kenvandine> pitti: out of 3400 files... right now 2 aren't in sync :)
<kenvandine> so not to bad
<kenvandine> pitti: yeah, if the network goes down the applet disconnects
<kenvandine> and comes back when the network comes back
<pitti> that sounds right then
<kenvandine> and it rescans
<kenvandine> which is slow now
<kenvandine> so now when i bounce the network connection on my desktop, my disk churns for a couple minues
<kenvandine> minutes even
<kenvandine> :)
<pitti> seb128: retracer failure is a syntax error, my bad; uploading fix
<seb128> pitti: ok
<pitti> seb128: I'll restart them once it's in the archive
<pitti> well, I'll apply it inline, faster
<seb128> vuntz: so moving the applications directory away change the busy pick from 3 seconds to 0.3 seconds
<lool> asac: Sorry removed it in the mean time
<lool> asac: I'm dist-upgrading
<vuntz> seb128: cool
<asac> lool: ok
<seb128> vuntz: we need a .desktop cache ;-)
<vuntz> seb128: yep
<asac> lool: if it still fails in karmic let us know
<vuntz> seb128: the question is: "do we want a per-system cache, or per-user cache"
<seb128> I think I've already ready this question
<seb128> ready -> read
<vuntz> seb128: I would prefer per-system
<seb128> can we get per directory?
<seb128> ie the way the gtk icon cache is working
<lool> asac: k
<vuntz> seb128: oh, that makes sense
<vuntz> my main worry is that such caches are no fun for packages
<seb128> we do it for icons already
<seb128> so having the same logics for desktops is not going to make a real difference
<seb128> pitti: I guess changing poppler soname now if the binaries stay in new is not an issue?
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<pitti> seb128: that's fine
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, good morning
<seb128> pitti: ok, I'm going to upload 0.11 then
<rickspencer3> buen dia
<lool> vuntz: The main issue with the icon caches are the fact that the cache covers a deep hierarchy of dirs and files, so the mtime of the toplevel dir is not enough to tell whether the cache is newer or not than the latest installed files
<vuntz> lool: yeah, but for desktop files, that's not that much of an issue
<lool> vuntz: also in deb packaging we now have a facility to run commands when files are installed in specific dirs; if all the .desktop are installed immediately below one dir, it's easy to handle
<lool> vuntz: Exactly my point: it was really a pain with icons, but for .desktop files it's probably ok, as long as you don't change the layout
<vuntz> lool: (although you can have subdirs; but you generally don't have 10 subdirs... And then we can look at their mtime too)
<lool> One thing which would be nice is having the cache in the dir above the .desktop files; that way you can be sure that your cache is up-to-date
<vuntz> assuming that listing the content of a directory that's not in the disk cache isn't too slow, of course
<lool> vuntz: It's not good if you can have subdirs, because stating all files below a dir takes time (disk seeks)
<vuntz> lool: hrm.
<vuntz> /usr/share/desktop.cache? beeeeh :-)
<lool> stating a single file + single dir is much faster than stating hundreds of files to check whether they are subdirs
<vuntz> let's do it in /var in that case
<lool> vuntz: I don't have an issue with /usr/share/desktop.cache but you could easily make that /usr/share/desktop-caches/desktop.cache, /applications.cache etc.
<lool> or /var if you like
<lool> I don't think /var or /usr makes a big difference, unless your cache is arch specific
<lool> (/usr is for package data files; the cache will match what's in /usr and only be updated when you install .desktop files to /usr, so usually during package updates; some people argue that this is a FHS violation, but this is IMO wrong)
<vuntz> lool: it's likely to be arch-specific, though
<vuntz> isn't the icon cache arch-specific?
<lool> vuntz: That's to be avoided IMO; think of $HOME .desktop files
<lool> vuntz: I think it's not
<lool> It's mmap-able and meant to work over NFS homes IIRC
<vuntz> oh, then we can probably do it the same way
<pitti> seb128: \o/ bug 373007
<ubottu> Bug 373007 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/373007 is private
<lool> vuntz: Concerning hierarchies of .desktop files: the full hierarchy is never used directly, right?  I mean by default only the files directly below /usr/share/applications are used
<seb128> pitti: excelllent
<vuntz> lool: no
<lool> vuntz: If you have to explicitely request the inclusion of e.g. /screensavers, then it's ok: we have a way to check the caches freshness with a single stat()
<vuntz> lool: if an app requests gnome-blablabla.desktop and /usr/share/applications/gnome-blablabla.desktop doesn't exist, we can look at /usr/share/applications/gnome/blablabla.desktop (iirc)
<lool> ah
<vuntz> (fun)
<vuntz> I'd need to check the spec again to be 100% sure
<lool> vuntz: Then you could perhaps consider one cache file per real dir; before scanning a dir you check whether it has a corresponding cache file, if it does you compare the stats before using the cache, otherwise you scan the dir as currently done
<lool> That is, if you want to make sure your cache is really fresh; if you go for a single cache, you can't be sure I think
<pitti> seb128: I don't see testing feedback on bug 368508?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368508 in libical "don't crash on incorrect values or errors" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368508
<seb128> pitti: comment #10
<seb128> "FIX CONFIRMED here - Clicking onto calendar button no longer crashes evolution."
<pitti> oh, I see; thanks
<seb128> comment #13
<seb128> "If I have the expected version, I can confirm that the 'crash' of calendar updates no longer occurs "
<seb128> pitti: you're welcome, sorry for the bug log being confusing
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: ping
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: 'sup kenvandine
<rickspencer3> ?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: still having the evo/indicator problem?
<kenvandine> quit evo, and run this
<kenvandine> /usr/lib64/indicator-applet/listen-and-print
<kenvandine> then start evo
<kenvandine> and send me the output of listen-and-print
<seb128> did you try in a guest session?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: yes, but haven't had time to look into it
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: yeah... and that too
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: when you can, please do that
<rickspencer3> seb128: yes, it sort of worked
<rickspencer3> on call now, will ping back soon
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> "sort of worked" ;-)
 * kenvandine thinks it is pretty binary :)
<kenvandine> there or not...
<kenvandine> humm
 * kenvandine heads to lunch
<rickspencer3> seb128: yeah, indicator-applet crashed on load
<rickspencer3> but worked when it reloaded
<seb128> the crash might be interesting to ted
<seb128> but that means it's correctly installed and capable to work
<rickspencer3> seb128: right, need to make time to follow up
<seb128> which is already an indication
<pitti> bryce: wow, people say good things about -intel 2.7.1
<bryce> pitti: sweet
<bryce> pitti: btw I've been getting questions about if 2.7.1 could be backported to jaunty
<bryce> pitti: I've been telling them "Against SRU team policy"
<bryce> pitti: but let me know if I should be thinking otherwise
<artir> does it use UXA or EXA
<artir> ?
<bryce> it should support either
<pitti> bryce: nothing wrong with jaunty-backports
<bryce> 2.8 is where they're dropping exa
<bryce> pitti: not sure
<pitti> bryce: wrt. -updates, that sounds inappropriate, even more so at this time when it hasn't been tested widely yet
<artir> ok, thanks
<bryce> pitti: ok thanks for confirming
<darren8808> what is the command to leave a channel?
<pitti> darren8808: /quit
<chrisccoulson> pitti - would you object to uploading a snapshot of tracker from git master in to karmic? (there will be a proper 0.7.0 release later this cycle)
<darren8808> thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: no, that's fine
<chrisccoulson> cool. the only reason i ask is because libtrackerclient is not API stable yet, but there is only 1 package in the archive using that at the moment (totem-plugins), and it may be possible to disable that plugin for now
<chrisccoulson> it will need porting to the new API at some point
<pitti> I'm off for today, see you tomorrow!
<chrisccoulson> does devicekit have an upstream bug tracker?
<cj> what's the notification tool called and how do I configure where it pops up the notifications?
<mclasen> chriscoulson: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - thanks:)
 * chrisccoulson wonders if his floppy drive is polled for long enough whether it will die a slow, painful and much needed death
<seb128> chrisccoulson: hey
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<seb128> chrisccoulson: is there any reason why we need that vala divergence over debian?
<seb128> that seems not a good idea to me
<seb128> we have no ubuntu maintainer for it and being in sync is handy
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - bug 374151
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 374151 in vala "MIR for vala" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374151
<chrisccoulson> the changes have been sent to debian too
<chrisccoulson> i spoke to the debian maintainer and he's committed one of the changes already
<seb128> chrisccoulson: I've notice the build-depends bug being fixed, will then change the | true too?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i spoke to elmarco who committed the build-dep fix, and he suggested to ping slomo about that
<chrisccoulson> i don't know where he hangs out though ;)
<chrisccoulson> i suppose i could just open another bug report in debian
<seb128> slomo joins this chan regularly
<ror> slomo?
<seb128> ror: is that a question?
<ror> sorry it was thinking out loud, wasn't really supposed to type that
<ror> I once knew a coder who went by the name of slomo many years ago, but I suppose it's a fairly common name really
<chrisccoulson> thanks seb128 - i'll ask him about it when he's about
<seb128> chrisccoulson: thanks
 * chrisccoulson is annoyed that some people prefer to write insults and criticisms on bug reports rather than actually be helpful
<mnemo> chrisccoulson: yea, especially when they _choose_ themselves to install this _free_ thing that _rocks_
<ror> just cos something's free it doesn't give it an excuse to be shit! (I think ubuntu has shown this enough)
<Ampelbein> seb128: hey, i've got some free time to spare, is there anything urgent you want me to do?
<seb128> Ampelbein: do you want to have a go at merging abiword?
<Ampelbein> seb128: i can have a look at it, yeah.
<seb128> thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-14
<seb128> robert_ancell: hey
<robert_ancell> seb128: hey! Reading through your feedback with totem...
<seb128> robert_ancell: I didn't email you for tasks for the day but in a summary I bounced all your sponsoring requests with some changes to do
<robert_ancell> yeah, you're mean :P
<seb128> that should take a bit, especially the totem update which should switch to cdbs and stop building totem-xine
<seb128> lol
<robert_ancell> yay! The death of totem-xine.  I tried to get it to work with DVDs but it wasn't working for me.  That may make some unhappy people
<seb128> upstream decision
<seb128> it's weird that you managed to still build a totem-xine
<seb128> is it just starting totem gstreamer?
<seb128> it probably ignored the configure option and built the same binary twice
<robert_ancell> I'm not sure, I didn't install totem-xine to test.
<seb128> anyway time for packaging simplification
<seb128> you can probably clean the totem bugs specific to xine too
<seb128> look for bugs which have a closed upstream task if you do that, upstream closed some already
<seb128> (there is an option on the detailed search page on launchpad)
<seb128> otherwise you can have a look to the merges list and pick some to help on that too
<seb128> gnome-screensaver would be a good one
<seb128> and the compiz stack
<robert_ancell> *shudder*
<seb128> the mergings are not so fun but we are almost done, soon we can focus on GNOME 2.27 updates and bug fixing which will be nicer ;-)
<robert_ancell> yes
<robert_ancell> Is esound deprecated yet?
<seb128> sort of since pulseaudio is used nowadays, why?
<robert_ancell> just noticed it in merges.u.c, it would be nice to get rid of it finally
<seb128> there is a sync request waiting for it
<seb128> I guess it will be synced after alpha1
<seb128> esound (the server binary) is in universe
<seb128> but libesd is still used by quite some applications
<seb128> (apt-cache rdepends libesd0)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - on the subject of totem, could we disable the tracker plugin?
<chrisccoulson> it won't work with the new version of tracker and will need some work on it
<robert_ancell> ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson: talk to robert_ancell he's on charge for totem now ;-)
<seb128> I've no objection
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - would you mind doing that?
<chrisccoulson> i think it's enough to just drop the build-dep on libtrackerclient-dev
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson: no prob
<chrisccoulson> thanks:)
<seb128> ok, enough for today
<seb128> good night or day respectively to everybody
<chrisccoulson> good night seb128
<artir> beware of the paella
<pitti> artir: I will, no seafood for me
<artir> pitti: paella also comes in the "arrow ibÃ©rico" (rice&meat) variety
<artir> :)
<pitti> kenvandine: weird, can you see the three files in Allhands 2009 Presentations from LaMont Jones/SkillsDevelopment/ ?
<seb128> pitti: where is APPORT_IGNORE_... checked?
<pitti> it's now empty for me on the web ui
 * kenvandine looks
<seb128> pitti: seems to not be working on karmic
<pitti> ./apport/ui.py:        'APPORT_IGNORE_OBSOLETE_PACKAGES' not in os.environ:
<pitti> should work in all frontends
<kenvandine> pitti: that isn't shared with me
<kenvandine> but... i think lamont was complaining about this a little bit ago
<pitti> seb128: what are you trying to do?
<seb128> pitti: apport-cli -c crash with some outdated packages installed
<pitti> kenvandine: I'm sure I saw the files there some hours ago
<seb128> ie
<seb128> 'APPORT_IGNORE_OBSOLETE_PACKAGES=1 apport-cli -c crash"
<kenvandine> pitti: yes, the files disappeared
<kenvandine> they are investigating now
<pitti> kenvandine: I renamed my file some hours ago, only to find it renamed back ten minutes ago
<pitti> I renamed it again now and wanted to check whether it worked this time
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> they are investigating, seems all the files disappeared on the web end
<pitti> okay, thank you
<kenvandine> lucio is helping him
<kenvandine> np
 * pitti -> off IRC for a bit to practice talk
<kenvandine> this is a good exercise for u1 :)
<kenvandine> later
<pitti> kenvandine: yeah, lots of people banging on one folder
<seb128> pitti: no, not working
<seb128> grrrr I wanted to take a screenshot without dist-upgrading
<seb128> ok, let's forget about this one
<chrisccoulson> is mounting all done via dk-disks in karmic now or is it still using HAL?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: this is somewhat unclear to me, since our current gvfs ships both
<pitti> chrisccoulson: my test package in the ubuntu-desktop PPA only had DK-disks
<pitti> and in fact, I'll rip out the hal backend now
<pitti> just finished my talk
<chrisccoulson> it was unclear to me too. i was going to look at updating ntfs-3g package and was wondering whether to drop the hal rules i added in jaunty to make auto-mounting work properly
<chrisccoulson> pitti - is nautilus working ok for you? i can't access computer:/// at the moment (timeout by message bus), but it's not clear to me what isn't sending a reply :-/
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it crashes often, but I can get to computer:/// just fine
<chrisccoulson> hmmm. i wonder whats wrong at my end
<chrisccoulson> not sure how to debug that. doesn't gvfs use p2p dbus connections for a lot of stuff? it makes it difficult for debugging
<pitti> chrisccoulson: no off-hand idea, I'm afraid; I hope it's not the gdu and hal backends fighting each other or so
<pitti> chrisccoulson: try running the gvfs daemon in foreground debug mode perhaps?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i can try that.
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<pitti> meh, disabling hal backend disables libgphoto and cdda backends, too
<artir> that should die!
<pitti> artir: certainly not the libgphoto backend?
<pitti> cdda is quite neat as well
<pitti> although not nearly half as interesting as it used to be, with RB handling it very well now
<chrisccoulson> pitti - there's no debug output from gvfsd. but i notice that gvfsd-computer is not running
<chrisccoulson> ah
<chrisccoulson> gvfsd-computer is crashing here
<chrisccoulson> that's why it doesn't work ;)
<pitti> if test "x$enable_gphoto2" != "xno" -a "x$msg_hal" = "xyes" ; then
<pitti> hmm
 * chrisccoulson goes to debug gvfsd-computer
<artir> pitti: the bug
 * kenvandine heads out for a doctor appointment
<chrisccoulson> pitti - gvfsd-computer only crashes when gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor is running
<chrisccoulson> if i chmod -x gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor and then restart gvfsd so it runs the gvfs-hal-volume-monitor, then it works ok;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: darn :/ that doesn't seem to happen for me then
<chrisccoulson> i'm just doing some debugging now
<chrisccoulson> it seems g_drive_get_name () returns a NULL at daemon/gvfsbackendcomputer.c:461
<chrisccoulson> which then gets passed to strchr, where it crashes
<chrisccoulson> doesn't do it for every drive though
<chrisccoulson> out comes the gio reference me thinks
<pitti> wife alarm :) see you tomorrow, and good night!
<artir> XD
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<chrisccoulson> about the patch translations we spoke about earlier....
<seb128> hello chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> it doesn't work so well. i just tried it here and the pot files don't get merged
<chrisccoulson> it creates 2 pot files instead
<chrisccoulson> so, i think i'll stick with the old way;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson: yeah, that's what I did too for the merges I did
<seb128> I commented on the rules line
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i didn't do that with gnome-session when i rebased it a couple of weeks ago. i should check over it really to make sure any new strings were imported ok
<seb128> if they were not they will be translated on launchpad
<seb128> but it's likely that the gnome-session will go upstream this cycle anyway
<Ampelbein> seb128: hello there. was my abiword merge good to go? also, is there any other update/merge you want me to do?
<seb128> Ampelbein: hi, sorry I'm busy working on slides for a presentation I've to give next week and on uds topics, I didn't have time for review or sponsoring today
<seb128> Ampelbein: nothing special, just pick in the merge.ubuntu.com list ;-)
<Ampelbein> seb128: oh, ok. no problem.
<Ampelbein> seb128: well, there is a rather complicated thing i'm on right now, bug 368918 . just wanted to check with you that there is nothing urgent before working on that.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368918 in daemontools "Please sponsor 0.76-3ubuntu1 into karmic" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368918
<seb128> Ampelbein: ok, no nothing urgent desktop is mostly uptodate, waiting for the next 2.27 round now ;-)
<seb128> good luck with this one
<Ampelbein> thanks. have fun with your presentation next week
 * KaptenRodSkagg_ is away: Jag Ã¤r upptagen
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-15
<pitti> Good morning
<MacSlow> hey seb128
<seb128> hello MacSlow
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> hey pitti
<MacSlow> Mahlzeit pitti
<pitti> can I still use glade-3 to create gtk-builder files?
<pitti> or do I need a new tool for that?
<MacSlow> pitti, I believe so
<MacSlow> pitti, you can set in the project-preferences what output to create
<pitti> hm, there's a gtk-builder-convert program
<seb128> pitti: why not?
<seb128> pitti: gtk-builder is the new thing, why would they drop it?
<pitti> seb128: I want to convert apport from glade to gtk.Builder
<pitti> seb128: I just wondered about the GUI tool
<MacSlow> pitti, just checked ... you can create gtkbuilder files with glade-3
<pitti> MacSlow: cool, thanks
<seb128> glade-3 ask the format to use when you start it
<seb128> default is gtkbuilder nowadays
<seb128> you can also gtk-builder-convert the .glade
<MacSlow> pitti, now that you mentioned it... did so some weeks ago
<pitti> gtk-builder-convert seems to do a reasonable job, though
<seb128> it's done for that ;-)
<seb128> there is no much difference between .glade and .ui anyway
<pitti> just some renamed tags, apparently
<MacSlow> seb128, but the API is different :)
<seb128> right, the idea was the basically get the .glade feature in gtk
<seb128> they just did some adjustement on the way
<seb128> MacSlow: right but conversion should be easy
<pitti> I just finished the hal-sectomy of apport, so while I'm at cleaning old stuff, glade should go with it
<MacSlow> seb128, never really looked at the pure xml of these to formats
<seb128> pitti: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/gtk-migrating-GtkBuilder.html
<pitti> seb128: htnaks
<pitti> (urgh)
<seb128> yuor welocme
<pitti> the most important question isn't explained anywhere -- what's the file extension for gtkbuilder xml files? :-)
<seb128> .ui
<pitti> aah
<seb128> dlocate .ui
<seb128> you will see that most of GNOME use it nowadays ;-)
<seb128> that's one of those "GNOME3 goals"
<pitti> right, I wanted to do my share of converting apport and jockey
<pitti> so that I'm not the one who will be responsible for keeping libglade in teh default install :)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> pitti: http://www.gnome.org/~fpeters/299.html btw
<didrocks> morning seb128
<seb128> if you want some GNOME stats on all the cleaning
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> lut pitti :)
<pitti> wow, nice
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> oh yes, glade-3 is handling nowdays GtkBuilder \o/
<didrocks> short time ago, it was not possible :)
<huats> mro,g everyone
<huats> oups
<huats> morning !
<pitti> wow, now that glade->builder conversion was easy
<slomo> seb128: do you already have totem 2.27 in ubuntu?
<seb128> slomo: not yet but robert_ancell is working on it, why?
<seb128> lut huats
<seb128> pitti: see ;-)
<slomo> seb128: just wanted to know what the experience with it is :)
<seb128> slomo: anything specific we should try?
<seb128> slomo: I expect we will get quite some users unhappy about the lack of totem-xine
<huats> seb128: help me, I get spammed by millions of bugs handled by robert_ancell on anjuta :D
<robert_ancell> huats: mwuhahaha!
<seb128> huats: unsubscribe? ;-)
<slomo> seb128: oh, check out the new, fancy dvd support, switching between subtitles and different audio tracks of the same file during playback, chained ogg support, etc :)
<slomo> seb128: nothing specific, just want to know if all the new stuff works good :)
<seb128> ok, will give you feedback
<robert_ancell> seb128: speaking of totem, can you look at lp:~robert-ancell/totem/ubuntu?  I can't work out how to make it conflict properly
<seb128> DVD playing is still crap in jaunty
<slomo> seb128: i don't think anybody will be unhappy that totem-xine is gone
<seb128> robert_ancell: "conlict"?
<robert_ancell> seb128: conflict/replace the old packages
<seb128> slomo: I think people playing DVDs will
<seb128> robert_ancell: what issue do you get exactly?
<robert_ancell> slomo: I couldn't get totem 2.27 to play DVD for me
<slomo> seb128: probably only until they test it with totem-gstreamer :)
<seb128> slomo: until they run into bugs like http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=575568
<robert_ancell> seb128: hang on, will get dpkg log for you
<ubottu> Gnome bug 575568 in don't know "no sound when playing a dvd" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> "It looks like this is because the DVD is a music concert, with an LPCM
<seb128> (uncompressed audio) track. ResinDVD currently only supports AC3 audio tracks,"
<slomo> robert_ancell: that's good to know... do you have gst-plugins-bad installed? and which versions of gstreamer and gst-plugins-base?
<seb128> slomo: gstreamer is getting better but is till not there yet
<seb128> at least no sound on some DVD is a stopper for me
<slomo> seb128: i can look at fixing that bug later (but i don't have such a dvd so someone else needs to try it)
<seb128> that would rock ;-)
<seb128> let me know if you need testing, I've some of those
<robert_ancell> slomo: gst-plugins-bad 0.10.11-2ubuntu1
<slomo> robert_ancell: too ancient, you want 0.10.11.2 :)
<robert_ancell> slomo: ok, will need to update karmic packages then
<chrisccoulson> heh. i use totem-xine in jaunty ;)
 * robert_ancell wishes bugzilla.gnome.org would get better software/hardware
<robert_ancell> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/172851/
<seb128> robert_ancell: oh
<robert_ancell> I can't seem to convince dpkg to uninstall all the old packages and then install the new ones
<seb128> robert_ancell: debuild clean?
<seb128> robert_ancell: your control in bzr is outdated compared to control.in
<robert_ancell> I was building with bzr-buildpackage, does that update it?
<seb128> no
<robert_ancell> damn
<seb128> debuild clean to update it
<seb128> diff -u control.in control
<seb128> and see the difference ;-)
<seb128> slomo: btw is there a reason why you upload gstreamer pre-versions to experimental rather than unstable?
<robert_ancell> yeah, for some reason I thought it was being applied by bzr-buildpackage - because changing the control.in stopped the -xine.deb being built
<seb128> robert_ancell: that's the .install and rules changes which did that
<robert_ancell> Ahh ok
<didrocks> seb128, robert_ancell : DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_DEBIAN_CONTROL=yes debclean -d is better (-d because some clean target can fail if some files aren't found)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: once again, all is written at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr :)
<robert_ancell> seb128: I'm finishing up now, do you want to take over the remaining changes for totem?  I'm flying out on Monday so I wont have any time to work on it
<seb128> you don't need a binary-post-install for each binary I think, you could call it once with specifying a package
 * robert_ancell is currently in a state of information overload.  It will take some time to absorb the Wiki :)
<seb128> robert_ancell: if I've time today I will look at it, otherwise it can wait
<seb128> I've been trying to get some sponsoring help but seems other people are too busy for that this week
<didrocks> robert_ancell: hehe, it's understandable ;)
<robert_ancell> seb128: I copied that off gnome-games, I'm a bit hazy in the current state of Python .deb packaging
<seb128> didrocks: what does DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_DEBIAN_CONTROL=yes do? is that an environment thing?
<robert_ancell> huats: The update flood has ended :)
<seb128> robert_ancell: ok, I don't know the python package new policy well either, that will work for sure so let it this way
<robert_ancell> I'm needed elsewhere, see you guys in person next week!
<slomo> seb128: yes, in the past people complained because often uploading stuff blocked transitions ;)
<seb128> robert_ancell: have a good weekend and travel to spain
<seb128> see you next week!
<didrocks> seb128: my understanding is that it says basically "ignore build-depends not present on my computer"
<seb128> slomo: bah, people want unstable to be stable ... ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: but to get it taken into account into my host, I have to add -d option
<seb128> didrocks: ok, so no interest if debuild clean works
<seb128> (which should always be the case on the box where you build the package since build-depends are there for the build)
<didrocks> seb128: exctly :)
<seb128> but could be handy if you work on a box and use pbuilder to build for example
<didrocks> seb128: yes
<slomo> seb128: are all gstreamer packages in sync with ubuntu now btw?
<seb128> slomo: let me look
<seb128> gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg isn't
<seb128> but I guess we can sync it, doing that now
<seb128> I just backported http://launchpadlibrarian.net/23776863/gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg_0.10.6.2-1_0.10.6.2-1ubuntu1.diff.gz before jaunty
<seb128> and that's in the new version
<slomo> ok :)
<seb128> slomo: and gst-plugins-bad0.10 is not
<seb128> otherwise everything else is in sync
<slomo> seb128: ok, what's the delta in -bad?
<seb128> slomo: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/23125176/gst-plugins-bad0.10_0.10.10-1_0.10.10-1ubuntu1.diff.gz is the only change there
<seb128> we spoke about it briefly before jaunty I think
<slomo> seb128: ah, please sync gst-plugins-bad and gst-plugins-good from experimental then :) also, do you have gst-plugins-base 0.10.23-2? if not that would be good to have before totem 2.27, otherwise people will complain :)
<seb128> slomo: ok, those are synced now, the whole gstreamer stack is in sync now, thanks for your work there ;-)
<slomo> seb128: thank you for syncing it all :)
<seb128> slomo: btw do you know what is to blame for the bug about totem hitting an xerror (xvimagesink code usually) on some videocard and drivers when using compiz?
<seb128> I'm never sure what to do about that
<slomo> usually it's a driver bug
<seb128> the xorg guys tend to blame it on the software saying that it should handle better those cases and not crash, fallback to x11 or something if required
<seb128> slomo: could you add this change to libunique in debian?
<seb128> clean::
<seb128>         [ -s po/unique.pot ] || rm -f po/unique.pot
<seb128> it should not make a difference for debian and that's the only difference with ubuntu right now
<seb128> the translation magic doesn't like the empty template
<dholbach> heya seb128
<seb128> hello dholbach, how are you?
<dholbach> diverse_izzue is working on the tracker package - he said you sent him to #ubuntu-motu! :-)
<dholbach> good good - TGIF!
<dholbach> how 'bout you?
<crevette_> hey dholbach
<dholbach> heya crevette_!
<seb128> dholbach: not sure what he's trying to do on it, I sent him to #ubuntu-motu for questions about updating patches
<dholbach> no worries
<chrisccoulson> tracker? what's happening to the tracker package?
<dholbach> he's struggling with the autotools.patch or something
<seb128> dholbach: but tracker is already being handled by chrisccoulson there so this guy should be careful to not duplicate work
<dholbach> right
<seb128> chrisccoulson: apparently this guy wants to try 0.6.94
<seb128> chrisccoulson: so he tried to build a local version and had issues updating the autotools chnage
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok. but 0.6.94 doesn't give that much over 0.6.93 really
<seb128> hey diverse_izzue
<diverse_izzue> hi seb128
<dholbach> diverse_izzue: you can have a chat with chrisccoulson - he's mostly taking care of the package - if you want an "easier" update, have a chat with seb128, he hast the best overview over what needs doing in desktop land :)
<diverse_izzue> dholbach: thx
<dholbach> #ubuntu-desktop is a fun place to be and I hope you'll enjoy doing some packaging here :)
<chrisccoulson> it is a fun place to be :)
<diverse_izzue> hi chrisccoulson
<dholbach> chrisccoulson: when are you applying for MOTU?
<dholbach> did I ask already? :)
<chrisccoulson> dholbach - i'm working on that. i'll try and do it at the weekend;)
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: so the story is i'm trying to update jaunty's tracker package to 0.9.94 and fail to update the 99_autotools.patch
<chrisccoulson> hi diverse_izzue
<dholbach> chrisccoulson: that's what we like to hear :)
<chrisccoulson> diverse_izzue - is this for a SRU or just for yourself locally?
<chrisccoulson> the 99_autotools.patch should just update by running "autoreconf -f -i"
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: this is just what i chose to be my first packaging experiment
<chrisccoulson> you might have to delete the old patch and start again though. the existing patch might not apply if they modified the build system
<diverse_izzue> the existing patch does not apply, that's why i'm trying to update it
<chrisccoulson> diverse_izzue - just delete it and start again - that's easiest;)
<diverse_izzue> problem is, autoreconf: automake failed with exit status: 1
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm
<chrisccoulson> i could try that, but i can't do it until i get home from work
<seb128> pitti: could you tried to wave bug #372746 in, it re-add a change dropped by mistake in the previous jaunty-updates update
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 372746 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon vs OO.o fonts" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372746
<chrisccoulson> i don't thin they changed much in the build system in 0.6.94. the only thing i know they changed is to disable the push modules by default
<seb128> tried -> try
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: just to verify i'm doing everything right. after copying the debian folder over to the new source tree, i apply all patches before the 99_autotools.patch one using quilt push 11_whatever.patch. then i try to execute autoreconf.
<chrisccoulson> once you've done that, you need to do "quilt new 99_autotools.patch" (assuming you deleted the old patch), then add all the files to the patch (find | xargs quilt add), then run "autoreconf -f -i"
<chrisccoulson> that should work ok
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: deleting the old patch is as easy as rm 99_autotools.patch?
<chrisccoulson> diverse_izzue - you might need to remove it from debian/patches/series too as I think quilt new will fail
<chrisccoulson> you picked a good package to start with - quilt is really nice to use :-/
<chrisccoulson> seb128 likes quilt too ;)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<diverse_izzue> do i sense irony there?
<chrisccoulson> sarcasm ;)
<chrisccoulson> quilt is quite horrific to use for some tasks
<chrisccoulson> diverse_izzue - i don't think tracker 0.6.94 fixes any common issues that users are complaining about at the moment though
<chrisccoulson> do you use tracker?
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: yes i do
<crevette> hello others as well
<chrisccoulson> do you have the issue with index corruption and the repeated notification that won't go away?
<diverse_izzue> no, it runs quite fine actually. sometimes the tracker-applet crashes, else fine
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: it's really just  a random pick for first experiments, as good as any other package
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok. i was going to ask you to help test a patch;)
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: what do you use as pastebin? can i put the output of autoreconf -i -f there?
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/172921/
<seb128> chrisccoulson: one of the debian pkg-gnome guy added a patch to the bts to have a quilt command doing the equivalent of the other edit-patch commands
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - that's useful to knwo
<chrisccoulson> diverse_izzue - i'm not sure why that fails yet. mind if i take a look at that when i get home from work just after lunch?
 * chrisccoulson loves fridays
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: that'd be great
<chrisccoulson> cool
<diverse_izzue> i'll try to be around, or at least pop in later in the afternoon
<chrisccoulson> no problem. i finish work at 1pm uk time and then it takes me about 25min to drive home afterwards
<diverse_izzue> in uk it's 11:50 now?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's right
<diverse_izzue> gotcha. cu later then.
<diverse_izzue> thanks for the help
<chrisccoulson> you're welcome
<chrisccoulson> anyone noticed any dbus issues in jaunty?
<chrisccoulson> like messages timing out and things
<pitti> seb128: will have a look
<seb128> chrisccoulson: what sort of issue or timeout exactly?
<seb128> pitti: thanks
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - sometimes when an application puts a lot of data on the session bus, everything on the desktop that relies on the session bus stops working and never recovers
<chrisccoulson> it's really wierd, and not all that repeatable
<chrisccoulson> i noticed dbus-daemon consuming a lot of memory too (900MB)
<seb128> nop, didn't notice any of those
<chrisccoulson> i suppose i should run it through valgrind really if i can trigger it again
<seb128> but I doubt I've "an application puts a lot of data on the session bus"
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - tracker does that;)
<chrisccoulson> it's terrible for spamming the session bus
<seb128> I'm not using it, it's putting a lot of ios on the disk for sure which is enough ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i might ask upstream if they would consider using p2p links instead
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - tracker 0.7.x is supposed to perform much better with regards to IO;)
<seb128> how?
<seb128> I though the issue was inotify
<crevette> hey, if someone has time for https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/373199, 2.26.0 was already pushed to karmic, it just need the same package except removing the Depends on gnome-bluetooth-2.27.0
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 373199 in gnome-user-share "Update gnome-user-share to stable relase " [Undecided,New]
<chrisccoulson> no idea. upstream say they've noticed a welcome performance improvement after removing all the qdbm code
<chrisccoulson> i haven't tried it out yet though, so I can't say how much better it is
<seb128> I'm waiting to see ;-)
<seb128> for sure tracker is getting work nowadays so it should become better
<chrisccoulson> the new version should resolve a lot of the issues that users currently complain about, particularly the index corruption problems
<seb128> we could perhaps reconsider installing it by default in karmic
<seb128> karmic is going to be the cycle where all the rewrote and changes land anyway
<seb128> ie *kit, e-d-s to dbus, plymouth, etc
<seb128> I'm pondering trying to push the new gdm too now, especially if next cycle is a lts
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm not sure about installing it by default in karmic. i need to speak with upstream really and see how confident they are of having a solid stable release in time, considering the changes in 0.7.x are pretty significant
<chrisccoulson> it might be good to let the dust settle and install it by default in karmic+1
<crevette> it's time to use ext4 by default then, in order to have change in the full stack
<seb128> well my logic is that we need to land changes this cycle if we want those in the lts
<crevette> :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - that's a fair point. some of the new stuff this cycle sounds interesting
<seb128> we don't want to get tracker on by default in a lts cycle without testing it before
<seb128> so either it's this cycle and we have testing feedback and can evaluate it for lts
<seb128> or it's after the lts
<chrisccoulson> crevette - i recently converted to ext4 and now i see frequent lockups when deleting files :(
<crevette> chrisccoulson, yeah I'll wait few cycle before using that
<seb128> crevette: I don't see the point of being crack addict on filesystem really
<seb128> you expect those to be stable
<crevette> seb128, yeah me too
<seb128> crevette: you are the one suggesting the change though ;-)
<crevette> seb128, there was a :-) two lines below
<seb128> no, there was a ":)" ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm going to work on getting tracker 0.7 in karmic over the next few days. uploading after you guys come back from UDS might be good timing though, as I spoke to mbiebl who maintains it in debian and he says it crashes a lot at the moment in its current state ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson: ok, good
<chrisccoulson> i'm still working on a jaunty SRU for tracker at the moment though
<seb128> trying to fix what? the index corruption?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - we can't fix the index corruption in jaunty. i'm trying to fix the issue where the error notification repeatedly appears and can't be dismissed
<chrisccoulson> the problem is is that i can't recreate the issue here and the people that are experiencing it are being somewhat less then co-operative with providing useful information ;)
<seb128> don't spend too much time on jaunty srus
<seb128> I would recommend uninstalling tracker on jaunty
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it does have a lot of issues in jaunty
<seb128> you will not realistically get it great there
<seb128> so better to focus on getting it in shape in karmic than patchworking jaunty
<seb128> and tell to jaunty users that the current version is not ready and they should better not use it if they have issues
<chrisccoulson> i think that the current package in my PPA will make it better for users experiencing the issues (it actually reindexes properly without the user having to do anything and shouldn't spam the user with lots of error notifications), but i'm having difficulty finding people to test it now
<chrisccoulson> i think most people already got fed up of it and uninstalled it;)
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: ...or they are quite happy with the one currently in the repos. 0.6.93 runs quite stably for me, at least the indexer works very well now
<seb128> chrisccoulson: as said don't spend to much efforts on that imho, better focussing on having the new version stable
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'll do that.
<chrisccoulson> diverse_izzue - the jaunty version has quite a lot of issues still;)
<chrisccoulson> right, i've got to go anyway. time for me to go home
<seb128> chrisccoulson: see you later
<seb128> pitti: apparently you didn't merge your notify-osd changes before jaunty in bzr?
<seb128> notify-osd (0.9.11-0ubuntu3) jaunty; urgency=low
<seb128>   * Correctly check for multihead_mode, to make bubbles always appear on the
<seb128>     primary screen. Cherrypicked from trunk. (LP: #331369)
<seb128> pitti: this change is not in lp:~ubuntu-desktop/notify-osd/ubuntu
<pitti> seb128: it's in bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-desktop/notify-osd/notify-osd-jaunty/
<pitti> sorry, seems I forgot to update Vcs-Bzr:
<seb128> notify-osd-jaunty?
<seb128> should that be merged in ubuntu too?
<pitti> there unfortunately was some confusion, and notify-osd got changes which weren't appropriate for jaunty at that time
<seb128> I'm not sure why you changed the bzr there?
<pitti> so I left that in the "packaging trunk" for kamic, and created a jaunty branch
<pitti> seb128: it should be merged, yes
<seb128> ok, makes sense now
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> I can't remember exactly any more, I'm afraid
<pitti> but yes, the jaunty branch shoudl be merged into trunk
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> agateau was asking me about it
<seb128> they try to work on a sru
<pitti> yeah, I warned them to request them on the LP bugs before starting to work on it :)
<seb128> and that created some confusion, we are good now
<seb128> thanks!
<pitti> sorry for the mess
<seb128> pitti: yeah, he was just trying to figure was bzr revision was used in jaunty
<seb128> don't worry, bzr doesn't make things always easier we know that ;-)
<chrisccoulson> diverse_izzue - i just tried running autoreconf on tracker-0.6.94 here, and it works ok
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: this is not fair!
<tjaalton> hmm, polkit-auth doesn't list org.fd.hal.power-management when I'm logged in, perhaps that's why the menus don't have any entries to suspend etc?
<tjaalton> on karmic
<chrisccoulson> tjaalton - hasn't the power stuff been disabled in hal now?
<chrisccoulson> pitti will know ;)
<pitti> no, it hasn't been disabled
<pitti> it's just not used any more by g-p-m
<tjaalton> ok, so what does g-p-m use?
<pitti> devicekit-power
<tjaalton> oh wait, devicekit-power
<pitti> tjaalton: that's still strange, you shuold still have those privileges
<tjaalton> so, it doesn't seem to work here :)
<pitti> I do have suspend/hibernate in the shutdown menu
<pitti> polkit-auth|grep power-management has them all
<tjaalton> empty
<pitti> ugh
<pitti> tjaalton: check ck-list-sessions ?
<tjaalton> is-local =TRUE
<tjaalton> oh
<pitti> active = TRUE ?
<tjaalton> active = FALSE
<pitti> that'd be it
<tjaalton> heh
<chrisccoulson> diverse_izzue - could you run "autoreconf -f -i -v" to get more output?
<tjaalton> pitti: ok, found the problem. I had gdm on tty1
<pitti> tjaalton: hm, why woudl that break CK?
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: done, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/173011/
<tjaalton> pitti: beats me..
<tjaalton> pitti: perhaps this would help? http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/devel/ConsoleKit/ConsoleKit-0.3.0-get-vt-from-display-instead-of-controlling-tty.patch?revision=1.1&view=markup
<pitti> tjaalton: btw, do you guys plan to upload -intel 2.7.1 to karmic soon? right now it's just in the jaunty -updates repo, right?
<pitti> tjaalton: by the name of it it might indeed
<tjaalton> pitti: last I heard was that bryce was working on it
<pitti> *sigh* I wish John would apply patches that get sent to him
<chrisccoulson> diverse_izzue - do you have gtk-doc-tools installed?
<tjaalton> pitti: ok, bug 375877 now has consolekit too, so close that part if/when you add it :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375877 in upstart "Move *dm to VT1" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375877
<pitti> tjaalton: thanks
<pitti> tjaalton: well, the boot flicker is pretty irrelevant with KMS, right? It's mainly an issue for older drivers which won't get ported to KMS, I guess?
<chrisccoulson> or closed ones like nvidia;)
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: installed it and now autoreconf passes!
<tjaalton> pitti: there's a state change even with krm
<tjaalton> uh
<tjaalton> *kms
<chrisccoulson> diverse_izzue - cool:)
<diverse_izzue> indeed. so the procedure is to first create a new patch using quilt, then add all files to that patch, then call autoreconf, and then use quilt to update that patch?
<chrisccoulson> that is sometimes what i do. but you have to be careful that autoreconf might create new files, and these won't get added to the patch
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: ...the safe way would be what then?
<chrisccoulson> sometimes i create a copy of the source directory (with all patches applied), run autoreconf in one, then create a diff and use that as the patch
<diverse_izzue> i'll try the easy version first :-) so much to learn.
<seb128> chrisccoulson: are you still working on some merges out of trackeR?
<chrisccoulson> i'm not doing anything specific with tracker just yet
<seb128> ok so remove the tracker part
<seb128> are you working on some merges still? ;-)
<seb128> gnome-panel I think
<seb128> I'm not sure if you said you would do gnome-applets too
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: so now i have a patch that quilt complains "does not remove cleanly". might i have run in the kind of situation you were mentioning?
<chrisccoulson> ah, yes. i've still to finish gnome-panel. it's pretty much there, but the delta to debian is huge
<chrisccoulson> and yes, gnome-applets is on my list
<seb128> ok excellent
<seb128> chrisccoulson: I know the delta is not trivial, thanks for taking over the task ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i think the gnome-panel delta looks worse than it really is because of the all the indicator-applet and fusa migration stuff. and debian have some patches that we're not really interested in too
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, there's no version 1.3 for gvfs listed on bugzilla.gnome.org :-/
<seb128> yeah, I quickly copy autotools, etc change over to have a sane diff when I work on such changes
<seb128> that's because there is no 1.3 tarball
<seb128> use trunk
<seb128> the karmic version is a git snapshot
<chrisccoulson> seb128- thanks
<chrisccoulson> diverse_izzue - did you run "quilt refresh" before trying to remove the patch ;)
<chrisccoulson> it's a common pitfall with quilt
 * pitti ponders http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26754645/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-amd64.gnome-power-manager_2.26.1-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<pitti> none of libgnomeui, gnome-panel, libbonoboui has been updated recenlty
<chrisccoulson> i thought a lot of gnome stuff dropped dependencies on libgnomeui?
<chrisccoulson> are you sure it really needs it?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it might be obsolete, I'll check it
<pitti> I just updated the apport hook, so I didn't do a lot of other checks
<chrisccoulson> i don't think g-p-m needs libgnomeui (although that doesn't solve the issue with libgnomeui, but it might mean you can build g-p-m)
<chrisccoulson> there's no check for gnomeui in g-p-m's configure.ac
<chrisccoulson> i think that dependency has gone
<pitti> cool
<seb128> pitti: just retry it, I bet it's anything under it in the stack having arch any all mismatch between i386 and amd64 builds
<pitti> ah, perhaps
<seb128> anything -> something
<pitti> seb128: but indeed, isntead of retrying I'll throw out the obsolete build deps
<pitti> yay cruft removal :)
<seb128> right
 * seb128 always diff configure.{ac,in} between versions
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i just did that now
<seb128> we should have a hook for that somewhere
<chrisccoulson> gnomeui was required in 2.24 but not in 2.26 now
<seb128> I did the configure.{ac,in}, debdiff debs and check symbols for each uploads
<seb128> do we have a clever way we could hook those with bzr-buildpackage?
<seb128> and also look to the NEWS and copy that to changelog ;-)
<chrisccoulson> that would be nice, although not everything in NEWS is interesting
<seb128> well, copy then you can clean
<seb128> I usually take changes which are not translations
<seb128> I've a small bit of code which indent and clean the (....) at the end of each lines
<seb128> those are usually upstream bug numbers of names, which we don't care about in the changelog
<seb128> "or"
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hah, doesn't help; libpanel-applet2-dev depends: libgnomeui-dev, and g-p-m needs the former
<chrisccoulson> :(
<pitti> but at least it doesn't explicitly mention it any more
<chrisccoulson> that's a shame
<pitti> and I'm pretty sure that the panel still uses at least bonobo
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it does unfortunately
<seb128> chrisccoulson: you just won ubuntu-desktop membership congrats ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks:)
<seb128> will make easier for you to work on desktop updates, you can push directly to the team bzr now
<chrisccoulson> thanks
 * pitti hugs chrisccoulson, you do amazing work!
<seb128> you're welcome, thank you for the good work ;-)
 * chrisccoulson hugs pitti and seb128
 * seb128 hugs chrisccoulson and pitti
<pitti> hugfest!
<seb128> desktop team hug ;-)
 * pitti hugs seb128 and chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> pitti - that dependency issue appears to be related to libesd-alsa0
<chrisccoulson> "libesd-alsa0: Depends: esound-common (>= 0.2.41-3) but it is not going to be installed"
<pitti> chrisccoulson: OMG, is that thing still alive?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, seems so
<seb128> can we get ride of this?
<chrisccoulson> i just tried it in a karmic chroot
 * pitti prepares a Verteron pulse and directs it against esound
<seb128> I guess libgnome still use libesd for sound events
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - it seems so
<pitti> seb128: didn't we have a patch like ages ago to make libgnome use aplay? :-)
<seb128> ring a bell ;-)
<chrisccoulson> is there no documentation for gvfs? i can't find any in the source tree
<seb128> what are you trying to do exactly?
<seb128> the user side is mostly gio which is in glib
<chrisccoulson> i'm trying to debug a crash at the moment
<seb128> gvfs is mostly a set of backends for access other locations through gio
<chrisccoulson> upstream will probably have it fixed before i've worked out what's going on though ;)
<seb128> accessing
<seb128> anything special you are looking for? in which code does it crash?
<chrisccoulson> gvfsd-computer crashes for me on startup with gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor, but works ok with the gvfs-hal-volume-monitor
<seb128> chrisccoulson: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gio/unstable is mostly the gio, gvfs documentation
<seb128> chrisccoulson: I was having https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/376145 yesterday on my desktop in case that's a similar issue
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 376145 in gvfs "gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor crashed with SIGSEGV in gdu_pool_get_presentables()" [Medium,Triaged]
<seb128> but opening an upstream bug is usually a good strategy for gvfs bugs, they are responsive
<seb128> or try #nautilus on irc.gnome.org
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i think that's a different crash. the one i'm seeing is http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=582772
<ubottu> Gnome bug 582772 in computer backend "gvfsd-computer crashes with SIGSEGV in recompute_files" [Critical,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> chrisccoulson: "        filename = 0x1557990 "Ã°\030V\001"" is weird
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i don't think that filename is initialized to anything at the point it crashes
<seb128>         basename = 0x0
<seb128> is the issue I guess
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's the issue. that happens because g_drive_get_name (file->drive) returns that
<chrisccoulson> but that's as far as i got ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson: you can talk to davidz on #gnome-hackers he's the one working on that and usually responsive
<seb128> you can try to see what name is listed in gvfs-mount -li too
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i might pop over there in a bit. i don't want to pester him too much - i expect he's already quite busy;)
<chrisccoulson> i'll have a look at the output of gvfs-mount -li in a second - just need to boot the machine again
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - my floppy drive has no name according to the output of gvfs-mount -li
<seb128> lol
<chrisccoulson> i really need to get rid of that!
<seb128> the floppy drive is stricking back ;-)
<chrisccoulson> "Drive(0): (null)"
<chrisccoulson> thanks, i'll add that to the bugzilla
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> I guess those informations are mostly coming from devicekit
<pitti> what's a floppy drive?
<seb128> dunno if you can lskit in some way though
<pitti> yes, devkit-disks --dump should have it
<chrisccoulson> pitti - according to devkit-disks, there is no vendor or model name for my floppy drive
<chrisccoulson> that'll be the problem then ;)
<diverse_izzue> chrisccoulson: OMG it built! thanks for your patience!
<chrisccoulson> good stuff diverse_izzue
<diverse_izzue> i know - small step for humanity :-)
<pitti> seb128: so, we want bug 351577 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 351577 in libpst "MIR - libpst" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/351577
<seb128> pitti: well it's a feature which has been listed in GNOME 2.26 notes and that some users and press article wondered why it was not working in jaunty
<seb128> I'm not looking for extra work really but apparently that's something some users rely on
<pitti> okay
<crevette> does someone think having bluetooth service starting on bluetooth devices add and removal (managed by udev) is something to have?
<seb128> that would be nice to not have those running if you have no bluetooth devices
<crevette> yeah, I seen people requesting that
<crevette> fedora did that, and and udev rules (that I don't know)  seems quite simple
<seb128> cool
<crevette> the tricky part is the init script which seems to me complicated
<dobey> seb128, pitti: do either of you have any idea why setup.py would complain about --build-base ?
<pitti> I've never seen that
<dobey> pitti: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26766895/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.ubuntuone-client_0.90.1-0%2Br17-0~ubuntu.9.04_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dobey> cd . && python setup.py build --build-base="/build/buildd/ubuntuone-client-0.90.1-0+r17/./build"
<dobey> usage: setup.py [global_opts] cmd1 [cmd1_opts] [cmd2 [cmd2_opts] ...]
<dobey> :(
<pitti> seb128: grabbing totem-pl-parser
<seb128> pitti: thanks!
<pitti> oh, robert creates his own branches instead of committing to ~ubuntu-desktop
<pitti> seb128: ^ did you ask him to?
<seb128> pitti: no
<seb128> pitti: but I think he started on that before that you added him to the ubuntu-desktop team on launchpad
<pitti> ah, perhaps
<pitti> seb128: you commented on g-python-extras, doing that yourself?
 * pitti grabs sane-backends
<seb128> pitti: yes, I will review it in a bit again
<crevette> wow, phoronix tells 9.10 alpha-1 is 100% pure sugar in regads of 9.04
<crevette> "Muxixam performance" as would say Zorglub :)
<crevette> "Mumixam" rather (/me has problem with zorglang)
<localgod11> I was trying to install lirc and something has gone very wrong now when I install anything i get pastebin.com/mef7fd51
<seb128> use #ubuntu for user questions
<localgod11> tried that no love there
<pitti> ok, that's it for today
<pitti> have a nice weekend, and see you in Barcelona!
<pitti> I'll shut down my IRC proxy, won't have time for that I guess
<lool> seb128: Would you mind syncing esound over from Debian incoming?  it's likely to fix the build issue on i386 which breaks all ubuntu livefs builds
<seb128> lool: looking
<lool> I didn't actually test built it without network, but saw no download in my squid log
<seb128> lool: synced
<seb128> lool: ok, it built on i386 now
<tedg> dobey: BTW, you might look at the python script that was done for the Breathe icon set.  It's similar to icontool but handles cropping the SVG images as well.  lp:breathe-icon-set
<tedg> dobey: Or atleast the render part of icontool
<lool> seb128: thanks!
<mpontillo> So I'm trying to do a simple Debian merge, and there is a conflict in 99_autoreconf.patch. Is the best way to resolve this to [do a temp hack to the quilt-based package to support the apply-pathces target and] drop into a cdbs-edit-patch shell, then run "autoreconf -i -v" and remove the autom4te.cache?
<seb128> mpontillo: that's a good way
<seb128> mpontillo: other way is to push the patch before that in the serie, copy the dir manually, autoreconf, clean cach, diff and copy the patch to the package source
<mpontillo> thanks seb128. it sounds like there is a need for quilt-edit-patch script? ;) (or in this case, quilt-replace-patch, I suppose...)
<seb128> right
<seb128> having cdbs-edit-patch working on quilt packages would be nice
<seb128> there is a debian quilt bug which has been recently opened with a such change apparently too
<mpontillo> I don't think it would be too difficult. just run the patch target instead of apply-patches?
<crevette> heya
<mpontillo> (if quilt is the what-patch)
<mpontillo> ... I suppose the only twist might be if patch order was important, and the series file was different than the sorted contents of debian/patches?
<seb128> right
<mpontillo> think the ltmain.sh --as-needed patch we've got everywhere will ever be incorporated into libtool?
<seb128> I've no clue about that
<seb128> that's a good question of upstream rather
<bryce> tjaalton, pitti: I rolled the 2.7.1 merge for x-updates but since we were frozen, and since I figured debian would have it packaged soon, I figured I'd wait.  But I didn't get around to it yesterday, and I'm off today and traveling monday so won't get to it before spain.
<bryce> tjaalton: on the other hand, I figure we're likely to pull in 2.8 rc stuff following uds, so 2.7.1 would have a pretty short life ;-)
<nrg> hello
<nrg> I have an Hardy box that I can't manually start gnome-volume-manager on.
<nrg> It exits 0 and no verbosity.
<nrg> I am running it with:
<nrg> gnome-volume-manager --sm-disable -n
<nrg> I have a feeling that this is a dbus issues.  Any suggestions on what to look at?
<chrisccoulson> nrg - you should probable try #ubuntu for support
<chrisccoulson> why you want to run g-v-m on hardy though?
<chrisccoulson> and are you sure it exits? does it not just daemonize?
<chrisccoulson> (not sure, as I have never looked at the g-v-m code)
<nrg> chrisccoulson: g-v-m is an app requirement and it exits immediately with the '-n' switch
<nrg> chrisccoulson: which is suppose to keep it in the foreground
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok. i haven't had to use g-v-m since the last time it was installed by defaul
<chrisccoulson> t
<nrg> chrisccoulson: you think this a better question for #ubuntu?
<chrisccoulson> nrg - yes
<nrg> will do... thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-16
<crevette> hello
<mpontillo> hrm. should I be concerned that when I regenerated the autoreconf patch, it contained a lot more files? http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m355f74cb
<mpontillo> ... oh, I think I see why... it had to touch the AC_AUTOCONF_VERSION in all of tem
<mpontillo> *them.
<mpontillo> ... anyway, I have a fix in bzr for bug 235128 if someone wants to sponsor or give feedback later.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 235128 in epiphany-browser "apt:// should be supported in Epiphany" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/235128
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-17
<luca_i> hi all, i'm chasing a bug that I assume lurks in GNOME somewhere
<luca_i> GNOME won't automount (most) USB devices anymore
<luca_i> the problem is, I don't quite know how to go about finding the cause of this, it must be somewhere in HAL
<luca_i> it would be great if someone could give me some pointers on where to look or what to read to learn more
<luca_i> for reference, the bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/368959
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 368959 in ubuntu "USB devices is not being automounted after connect it" [Undecided,New]
<mpontillo> luca_i: hm. first I would stop HAL and run "sudo hald --daemon=no --verbose=yes" to see if any useful trace messages appear... then maybe try to figure out how to get dbus-monitor to show me what messages HAL is emitting. not sure what component is supposed to listen to the messages and automount, though. I've always clicked on the drives in "Places" to mount them.
<luca_i> it used to be that usb devices would automount on plugging them in
<luca_i> now, not only does taht not work anymore, but if i try to manually mount tehm in "places", i get an error message
<luca_i> mounting from the command line works, though
<luca_i> anyway, i'll try your suggestions, thanks
<luca_i> this was exactly the kind of reply i was hoping for
<mpontillo> yeah I saw that note about gnome-mount in the bug. (that was going to be my next question.) I worked with a guy a couple days ago whose drives weren't mounting even with gnome-mount because of some stale gconf keys
<mpontillo> good luck
 * asac runs dist-upgrade to karmic on main desktop
 * artir thinks asac's computer may just blow up!
<Hobbsee> asac: do tell how that goes.  I'd like to try it, but i kinda need a working computer
<asac> i will ... at least it didnt suggest to remove important packages ;)
<Nafallo> asac: sl!
<asac> so karmic works ;) ... not yet seen any hickups
<asac> Hobbsee: ^^
<artir> asac: faster thgan jaunty?
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-17
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
<pitti> hey didrocks, had a nice weekend?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, really nice with some sun \o/ thanks, and you?
<pitti> me too, I finally rode my bicycle again yesterday, and visited my grandparents
<pitti> my flat was still in one piece, and I still recognized it after three weeks :-P
 * pitti needs to leave for a bit for a doctor appointment and supermarket; my fridge is absolutely empty
<didrocks> pitti: same here ;) see you later!
<seb128> hello there
<mvo> hey seb128!
<seb128> hey mvo
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> had a good trip back?
<mvo> good, easy trip back, also I missed my connection in luxemburg by 1 minute :/
<mvo> but not a big deal, it was just 1h until the next train
<mvo> but I discovered that the train station is not very exciting ;)
<seb128> hehe, indeed
<mvo> and you? all easy?
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> mvo, yes, left at 9:15, was home at 11;25
<mvo> heh :)
<seb128> I crossed Lucas at breakfast who came by car
<didrocks> seb128: and so, you finally drove back and he played on his computer?
<seb128> and he's living in Nancy, ie my place was on his road back
<seb128> didrocks, I drove but he didn't geek ;-)
<didrocks> :-)
<mvo> haha
<seb128> didrocks, bien rentrÃ© ? c'Ã©tait bien ton ubuntu-party-meeting samedi ?
<seb128> mvo, he made me drive, wouldn't pick me up if I was not driving
<didrocks> seb128: oui, dans la mÃªme voiture/train que le DPL, on a bien parlÃ© ;) sinon le meeting, bofâ¦ rien de prÃ©parÃ© et personne de motivÃ© donc j'ai improvisÃ© :/
<seb128> see how the Debian guys are :p
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<seb128> didrocks, t'Ã©tais pas tout seul au moins Ã  ta rÃ©union  ? ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: non, tout de mÃªme ^^ mais beaucoup de nouveaux installeurs, donc c'Ã©tait pour leurs prÃ©senter les nouveautÃ©s + les best practices
<mvo> seb128: did he at least have a nice car?
<didrocks> (avec un gros troll du /home sÃ©parÃ© ou non qui court encoreâ¦)
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<seb128> mvo, no
<didrocks> seb128: you really should complain to him about his car :-)
<didrocks> seb128: well, when you arrived, of course ;)
<seb128> mvo, a suzuki one I never saw before, it feels quite low quality and it's noisy with slow engine
<seb128> I will not complain though I was home for lunch rather than by 17h
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> sweet :-)
<seb128> I forgot to take some CDs during UDS
<seb128> I noticed saturday
<seb128> I think I've not seen those around during the week
<czajkowski> pitti: ping
<DASPRiD> czajkowski, pong
<czajkowski> DASPRiD: pitti ?
<DASPRiD> nah, just a man-in-the-middle attack :)
<seb128> czajkowski, you should ask your question
<seb128> czajkowski, contextless pings are not that useful
<czajkowski> seb128: well I was told to ask for pitti as it's to do with burndown charts
<czajkowski> seb128: hence the ping for him :)
<seb128> czajkowski, you can do useful ping, ie write some pitti: how do I change those in charts?
<czajkowski> seb128: ok
<seb128> czajkowski, so he can reply when he's back, you being still around or not
<seb128> also other people might be able to reply
<czajkowski> pitti: any change of helping me change the blueprint to Ubuntu and no Ubuntu-community https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+spec/ubuntu-loco-manual-and-guidelinesas selecting Ubuntu isn't helping me change it.  then I'll be able to change series goal
<czajkowski> seb128: cheers, won't use ping in here again :)
<pitti> czajkowski: hello
<pitti> hey seb128, bonjour; had a safe trip home?
<seb128> hey pitti!
<seb128> pitti, yes, 2 hours by car with lucas
<pitti> czajkowski: I don't think you can do that with blueprints; you probably have to set that to "superseded" and open a new one against ubuntu
<czajkowski> pitti: ah ok, just when I select Ubuntu, it's saying too large and to narrow down criteria
<seb128> pitti, what about you? did you have a good trip back?
<pitti> seb128: yes, it went smoothly; I was with Torsten until Frankfurt, and then the last 4.5 hours to Dresden; we even arrived 10 mins early
<pitti> I did some postgresql stuff and watched some movies
<seb128> good
<pitti> seb128: we had some sun yesterday, so I spent some hours on my bike, as well as doing the laundry etc.
<seb128> we had some sun too there
<seb128> I went for a walk was good
<huats> morning
<rodrigo_> pitti, ping
<pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<rodrigo_> pitti, exhausted still :) how about you, got home safely?
<chrisccoulson> hello everyone
<rodrigo_> pitti, tried to talk with you on Thursday about bug #571286, but either I couldn't find you or you were in the middle of busy discussions :)
<rodrigo_> pitti, so, do you have a minute to talk about it?
<pitti> bug 571286
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571286 in couchdb-glib "Data loss of postal addresses between Evolution and Ubuntu One's Funambol exchange/web UI" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/571286
<pitti>  hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> are you rested from last week now?
<pitti> rodrigo_: sure (I'm scanning some stuff for expenses, but I'll answer)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, had a quiet train ride and a nice Sunday; how about you?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i flew back on saturday morning and caught up on some sleep :)
<rodrigo_> pitti, ok, so, we fixed it in couchdb-glib supporting the old format, and right now, in lucid, users that enter street information on evolution can't see it in the web UI and viceversa
<rodrigo_> pitti, so, this is the best way we could find to fix it
<rodrigo_> pitti, as for other apps using the format without couchdb-glib, there is the web ui for u1 and macaco-contacts, which use desktopcouch, and both should be changed now to support the new format
<rodrigo_> pitti, but in lucid, there's nothing else using it, afaik
<rodrigo_> pitti, also, both couchdb-glib and the u1 web ui support the old format, so if any app didn't change, we would still support it
<pitti> rodrigo_: hm, is couchdb-glib the only way to access couchdb? you can certainly talk to it in other ways, too?
<pitti> rodrigo_: also, if a db entry has the old format, it looked like it would actually rewrite it (thus breaking other apps that rely on the old format)? or does it do on-the-fly conversion and keep the old format on disk?
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, via desktopcouch, but it doesn't include field level detail, it's up to the app to use the correct field names, so we've changed all the apps we control
<rodrigo_> pitti, no, it moves the record to the new format on disk
<pitti> right, I'm concerned about the ones that we don't control
<rodrigo_> pitti, we discussed about keeping the old field, but we don't want to do that, if not we'll end up with lots of fields in the record for every change we do
<rodrigo_> pitti, the only one we don't control is macaco contacts, which is not even in lucid
<pitti> well, there might be dozens of quickly apps by now which use it, too?
<pitti> this is not an Ubuntu distro-only thing, after all
<rodrigo_> pitti, desktopcouch yes, but not sure about the contacts database
<rodrigo_> pitti, and apps using the contacts db, they should watch the freedesktop page for changes
<rodrigo_> teknico, anything to add?
<pitti> that'd require all those apps to suddenly be aware of this, though
<pitti> rodrigo_: wouldn't it be safer to leave the on-disk format as it is and just convert the format on the fly?
<rodrigo_> yes, but the same will happen again when we add social networking accounts to the contact format, which we'll be doing soon
<pitti> changing on-disk format is really not something that should be done post release
<rodrigo_> pitti, as I said, we discussed that, but we don't want to set a precedent to do that, or we'll end up supporting dozens of fields
<teknico> rodrigo_, pitti, the contacts web ui and the funambol interface can be made to work both ways, but it would be messier to have to keep old and new format in sync all the time
<pitti> rodrigo_: adding new fields seems fine, though? old apps would just ignore those?
<rodrigo_> pitti, no, when saving docs to couchdb, you send the whole doc, so if they ignore those fields, they might remove them
<pitti> urgh
<rodrigo_> pitti, we need to make sure people are aware of all changes, yes
<rodrigo_> or have a schema checker, or something
<pitti> couchdb doesn't support a thing like that, such as a "layout version" field which we can bump and apps need to check?
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, we can have a 'record-type-version' field
<pitti> I mean it's not already there?
<rodrigo_> no
<rodrigo_> because we haven't really came up with final version 1.0 :)
<pitti> if couchdb formats are meant to be changed that often, this seems like the most important thing to have right from the beginning..
<rodrigo_> well, so far, this is the only rename, until now we just added fields, which, yes, is a change
<teknico> rodrigo_, pitti, yes, we need a format version field
<rodrigo_> yes, bvut also we need to have apps be aware of that version field, and refuse to save docs if they don't understand the version
<pitti> can we add that without breaking existing apps? it seems that version field would be subject to deletion as well?
<rodrigo_> pitti, we need to make all apps aware, I'm afraid
<teknico> yes, current apps will gleefully ignore the format version, and always try to work with what they get
<rodrigo_> pitti, for every change we make, that is
<rodrigo_> pitti, that's why we coordinated the SRU with changes in the server
<pitti> so it seems we really need a solution which includes a version field, otherwise we'll run into the same problem over and over again
<pitti> and it gets worse over time, when more and more apps use those DBs
<pitti> rodrigo_: this could be passed as an "expected version" field in the connect function, and default to "0" if not given?
<pitti> and that current change would then bump it to 1?
<pitti> this would at least make those old apps crash with an exception instead of scribbling old data over new ones
<rodrigo_> pitti, that's why we want to add a contacts API to desktopcouch, as we do in couchdb-glib, so that apps just use that set/get API instead of free form field names, as it is now
<rodrigo_> pitti, then, the version/format details would just be in couchdb-glib/desktopcouch
<pitti> rodrigo_: but this seems to affect all DBs, not just contacts?
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, all dbs
<pitti> i. e. it seems to make more sense to apply this version check/field to all DBs and default to 0 if it's not there
<rodrigo_> pitti, that's why in couichdb-glib I'm adding API for all specific formats
<pitti> ah, ok; sounds good
<pitti> if we can convert data loss into app crash, this seems much better
<rodrigo_> and we discussed at UDS doing the same for desktopcouch
<rodrigo_> so the problem is not really in the format itself, but on letting apps use the field names they want, instead of an API that deals with format changes
<rodrigo_> we have the same problem now for other fields, if some app does firstname instead of first_name as the field name, we lose data
<didrocks> rebooting on maverick, bbl (or not ;))
<vuntz> what should I do with gnome-menus bugs mentioning Ubuntu in upstream bugzilla?
<seb128> vuntz, ?
<vuntz> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618762
<seb128> vuntz, could you explain the question?
<vuntz> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618780
<ubottu> Gnome bug 618762 in libgnome-menu "Manually created menu item in Gnome disappears from Gnome, Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit).after reboot" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<ubottu> Gnome bug 618780 in libgnome-menu "Main Menu wrong position after instalation any programs" [Minor,Unconfirmed]
<vuntz> seb128: since you're patching gnome-menus to use the cache stuff, it's possibly ubuntu-specific bugs
<seb128> vuntz, ask them to open the bug on launchpad or to try without the cache as you prefer there
<seb128> vuntz, i.e they can clean /usr/share/applications/desktop*cache
<seb128> and try without it
<vuntz> ok
<seb128> or ask to open the bug on launchpad
<vuntz> thanks
<seb128> vuntz, thank you ;-)
<seb128> vuntz, shame that you didn't come to UDS btw!
<seb128> but good to see you hacking on GNOME ;-)
<seb128> vuntz, btw have you seen bugs similar to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/439448
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439448 in gnome-panel "visual corruption affecting several panel applets" [Low,Triaged]
<seb128> vuntz, do you have any clue how we could try to debug those?
<rodrigo_> hey vuntz
<rodrigo_> vuntz, yeah, we missed you at uds
<vuntz> seb128: never seen this
<vuntz> seb128: but I guess I'd add some nice printf code in the notification area
<seb128> vuntz, it seems to not be restricted in the notification area though
<vuntz> it's indeed a shame I couldn't come be an annoyance to all of you ;-)
<vuntz> seb128: oh?
<vuntz> seb128: in this case, I have no idea
<seb128> ok
<rodrigo_> vuntz, oh, no we missed you because we didn't have someone to assign all weird bugs to, not because we wanted to see you :D
<vuntz> rodrigo_: :-)
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, you're laura, right?
<czajkowski> rodrigo_: yup
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, I tried to find you on Friday morning, but then I had to leave at noon, so, want me to help you debug your tomboy problem?
<czajkowski> rodrigo_: ah great
<czajkowski> rodrigo_: sure. basically I was syncing my tomboy notes on othe machine to U1 and then on this machine synching again, but nothing was updating but it was telling it was
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, ok, can you quit tomboy and run on a terminal -> tomboy --debug
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, and try again the syncing?
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, then, pastebin the outpur
<rodrigo_> output
<czajkowski> will do
<czajkowski> http://paste.ubuntu.com/434870/
<czajkowski> rodrigo_: it missed last few lines in previous paste http://paste.ubuntu.com/434872/
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, yeah, it says there are no updates
<czajkowski> rodrigo_: which is weird as the note from UDS hasn't been updated and it is missing a lot of information
<czajkowski> and I've synced that note to U1
<rodrigo_> hmm
<czajkowski> and I've just resynced it to be sure
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, can you try again syncing?
<czajkowski> sure
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, ah, ok, and the Sync: New revision: what does it say?
<czajkowski> just checking
<czajkowski> rodrigo_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/434874/ same thing, says it's updating on this machine but nothing is happening
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, have you done changes on both the web UI and tomboy before syncing?
<czajkowski> just tomboy..
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, can you just add a little change to any note in tomboy and try again?
<czajkowski> sure
<czajkowski> right that machine syned and said one note was up to date, now going to see if it updated on this machine.
<czajkowski> 0 notes are updated: your notes are up to date.
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, hmm, weird
<czajkowski>  just a tad :)
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, are there changes on the notes that are in the machine that fails?
<czajkowski> nope
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, ok, so can you open tomboy's prefs and see where it's pointing to? (Prefs->Synchronization)
<czajkowski> services#
<czajkowski> ;
<czajkowski> Tomboy Web
<czajkowski> server: https://one.ubuntu.com/notes
<czajkowski> rodrigo_: getting (tomboy:21612): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_widget_is_ancestor: assertion `ancestor != NULL' failed
<czajkowski> in the debug window
<rodrigo_> ugh
<czajkowski> when you say ugh it can't be good
<rodrigo_> no, it means I don't know why that happens :)
<czajkowski> really wish I found you on Friday
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, yeah
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, let's try one thing though:
<rodrigo_> quit tomboy
<czajkowski> done
<rodrigo_> then mv ~/.local/share/tomboy/* to some backup place
<rodrigo_> then, restart tomboy and go to prefs, and clear the sync server and re-authorize again
<rodrigo_> all this, on the machine that has the old notes
<rodrigo_> make sure tomboy doesn't see any notes first, before re-authorizing it again
<czajkowski> rodrigo_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/434912/ that seemed to work but got that on output
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, hmm, tomboy didn't list any notes before you re-authorized it?
<czajkowski> it did but I've a lot and didn't want to copy them all in ;)
<rodrigo_> ah, ok, but you want to get the new versions from the server
<rodrigo_> so that's why I asked you to mv ~/.local/share/tomboy/* to some backup place
<rodrigo_> thus, you'll get all the notes from the server
<czajkowski> I did
<rodrigo_> oh, then why it complains about a note with the same title?
<czajkowski> hmm let me go check the folder
<czajkowski> mm folder has been backed up
<rodrigo_> oh
<czajkowski> I have a few errands to do but will be back in a while. sorry
<rodrigo_> czajkowski, ok
<rickspencer3> seb128, hi
<seb128> hey rickspencer3!
<seb128> rickspencer3, how are you? it's very early, still jetlaged?
<rickspencer3> seb128, oh yes
<rickspencer3> I was up before 4am!
<seb128> rickspencer3, I don't ask if you had a good flight back since I read that you apparently didn't :-(
<rickspencer3> lol
 * seb128 hugs rickspencer3
 * rickspencer3 hugs back
 * rickspencer3 wipes tear of self-pitty from eye
<rickspencer3> I'm all better now!
<seb128> good ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, so, I guess we need to start cracking the whip?
<seb128> yes!
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> I guess first thing is a list of blueprints that we are targeting?
<rickspencer3> hi pitti!
<seb128> rickspencer3, I was just about to look at those, just finishing explain claims first to get paper work out of the way
<rickspencer3> ah, right
<rickspencer3> pitti, how is OEM services treating you?
<pitti> I'm getting into it :)
<rickspencer3> nice
<chrisccoulson> are we still uploading SRU's to lucid-proposed and then pocket copying to maverick? (or should i be uploading stuff to lucid now?)
<chrisccoulson> hey rickspencer3 seb128
<chrisccoulson> s/lucid/maverick
<chrisccoulson> d'oh
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, yes
<seb128> as long as maverick is in sync with lucid you can keep doing that
<chrisccoulson> cool, thanks
<seb128> it stops when the concerned source has maverick changes
<rickspencer3> hi chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey rickspencer3, how are you?
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, fine
<rickspencer3> nice jet lag, so up bright and early
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, didrocks I think we should create a new blueprint:
<rickspencer3> "Chromium on UNE"
<didrocks> rickspencer3: right, should be a good idea (hi btw ;))
<seb128> pitti, how does the work item tracker list things which are assigned to the desktop team?
<chrisccoulson> heh, i was thinking that when i started mapping out the work that needs to happen ;)
<rickspencer3> hi didrocks ;)
<rickspencer3> kewl
<seb128> pitti, does it takes specs which are assigned to any of the team member? or use the naming?
<pitti> seb128: it'll appear as exactly that: a WI assigned to "canonical-desktop-team"
<pitti> seb128: oh, you mean "things" == "spec", not "things" == "WI"
<pitti> seb128: that should just work
<pitti> seb128: usually they get assigned to a person, in which case it figures out the team of that person
<seb128> pitti, http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.10.html
<seb128> how do we populate that list I guess is my question
<rickspencer3> seb128, should we have a specific blueprint for shotwell?
<seb128> just by setting the serie goals?
<seb128> rickspencer3, yes
<pitti> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team.html
<rickspencer3> seb128, ack
<pitti> seb128: the -ubuntu-10.10 one are the specs/WIs _milestoned_ to "ubuntu-10.10", i. e. to final
<rickspencer3> I'll try to have a call with them this afternoon (the yorba guys)
<pitti> we shouldn't do that just yet
<seb128> pitti, same question still ;-) is the serie goal enough?
<seb128> pitti, how does it figure that spec is desktop team land?
<pitti> seb128: yes, "accepted for maverick" is sufficient
<pitti> seb128: because it's assigned to someone in the c-d-t
<seb128> ok good
<seb128> thanks!
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> pitti, do I have access to resetting the database or should I ping you about that once we have WIs listed?
<pitti> seb128: it's running as me ATM, so please feel free to ping me
<rickspencer3> seb128, do you think it's feasible to have a list of blueprints for each person by eod tomorrow?
<rickspencer3> (eod today if you are US based?)
<pitti> seb128: but all files are pitti:warthogs 775, so you should be able to as well
<seb128> ie I guess we will spend this week writting WIs and then set the trendline next week
 * rickspencer3 wants to get cracking
<seb128> rickspencer3, blueprints yes
<seb128> WIs by thursday evening
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<rickspencer3> seb128, shall I send an email to the team?
<seb128> rickspencer3, please do
<rickspencer3> seb128, also, I'd like folks to calculate their WI/week rate
<rickspencer3> I'll send email in 30-60 mins.
<seb128> rickspencer3, can you reminder people to set the assignee and and approver too while they are at it?
<rickspencer3> yes
<seb128> thanks
<rickspencer3> seb128, in what form do you want people's list blueprints?
<rickspencer3> an email to you or such?
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi kenvandine
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i have sick baby duty for a bit this morning... can we postpone our 1:1?
<kenvandine> i am upgrading to maverick while holding him :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, yes
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> he has been throwing up since thursday :(
<ccheney> good morning everyone
<kenvandine> taking him back to dr today
<kenvandine> hey ccheney
<chrisccoulson> hey ccheney
<chrisccoulson> hey kenvandine too
<seb128> rickspencer3, email works fine, or just set me as approver works too
<rickspencer3> seb128, how can we distinguish blueprints we are going to work on versus ones we won't?
<seb128> rickspencer3, but yeah, ask for people to email their list it will be clearer this way
<seb128> rickspencer3, "serie goal" set to maverick we will work on
<seb128> rickspencer3, those are the ones who will get on http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team.html
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> so we'll set the series goal and set as approver
<seb128> rickspencer3, ie set the serie goal for maverick for things we will be doing this cycle
<seb128> yes
<seb128> rickspencer3, I'm going to go through the list now and set the serie goals for the ones I know about already, we can then tweak if other suggestions get listed by tomorrow
<rickspencer3> thanks seb128
<seb128> np
<rickspencer3> seb128, can anyone on the team set the series goal for blueprints, or will they have to ask you or I to do it?
<seb128> I'm not sure since I've access
<seb128> didrocks, ^ can you change serie goals?
<seb128> or just suggest the goal and need somebody to accept it for you?
<seb128> (or other non admin team members who want to try)
<didrocks> seb128: seems that I can
<didrocks> it's proposed
<didrocks> "Proposed for maverick"
<seb128> ok
<seb128> rickspencer3, so they can suggest those and we need to approve them later
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<kenvandine> mvo, your fast!
<didrocks> seb128: y/w
<mvo> kenvandine: only for stuff that I like ;)
<kenvandine> mvo, thx for merging that branch
<kenvandine> :)
<mvo> kenvandine: thanks for pushing it, its a cool idea
<kenvandine> mvo, i might do some more tweaking
<mpt> mvo, I'm about to archive a copy of the USC 2.0 spec and start revising for 3.0. Is that okay by you?
<mvo> kenvandine: sure, just let me know (or push your branch)
<kenvandine> will do
<mvo> mpt: yes, maybe just rename the page to "SoftwareCenter-2.0" so that its archived in the current state?
<mpt> ooh, MoinMoin has a "Copy Page" command, never noticed that before
<mvo> mpt: the daily builds stuff will be super interessting for you I think, lots of stuff in mavericks s-c branch, but I guess you will want to wait a bit until you install it, until then we can create a daily-build ppa
<mpt> mvo, why wait? :-) As long as it runs on 10.04
<mvo> mpt: good point
<mvo> the daily-build PPA support is currently not in edge yet afaik (at least the stuff that can build directly from a bzr branch)
<mpt> mvo, is it due soon?
<mvo> apparently, there was a lot of talk about it at uds
<mvo> I need to check with dholbach, he is leading the documentation effort for it
<mpt> ok
<mpt> mvo, I copied the current spec to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter/2.0
<mvo> ok, cool
<mpt> This History section is pretty nifty :-)
<mvo> yeah, kudos to olivier
<mvo> its a great team
<mpt> mvo, why is the trunk version number "1.1.21debian1"?
<mvo> mpt: that is the version in maverick, right? that was a misguided autosync
<mvo> mpt: bzr trunk should be 2.1.0
<mpt> mvo, 1.1.21debian1 is what the About box says in bzr trunk
<mvo> mpt: aha, the version string is auto-generated at build, could you run "python setup.py build" and see if that fixes it?
<mpt> hm, I closed the window and the terminal command didn't exit...
<mpt> mvo, yep, now it says 2.1.0 :-)
<mvo> :)
<mvo> cool
<mvo> did I mention how excited I'm about the new stuff that is comming? its going to be awsome
<kenvandine> mvo, the subprocess stuff was blocking the ui, is that a known problem or a bug i introduced :)
<mvo> kenvandine: a bug you added, but it should be fixed in the bits that I commited
<kenvandine> great
<kenvandine> thx
<mvo> kenvandine: so if you merge back from trunk it should be fine
<kenvandine> awesome
<mvo> kenvandine: there are some other minor modifcations, but only small stuff
<mvo> kenvandine: a good name is needed, but I guess that is really hard "share" on its own may be confused with "share via a usb-key"
<kenvandine> yeah, i was going to ask for feedback
<kenvandine> same for the string that gets posted
 * mvo nods
<robert_ancell> seb128, can you look at the glib in bzr for maverick?  And feel free to add an endorsment on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertAncell/CoreDevApplication :)
<dobey> hey mvo
<mvo> hey dobey
<qense> aquarius: Getting Things GNOME is planning for Ubuntu One support and a website/server. I'd say: why not combine those two!
<tedg> james_w: I heard that there was a way to run your caching LP API thingy with bughugger... do you know if there's someplace I can find that?
<kenvandine> qense, yeah... awesome!
<james_w> tedg: I hadn't heard that
<qense> kenvandine, aquarius: I'm not sure whether GTG will want to use Ubuntu One as the primary data source -- Ubuntu isn't the only distribution in the world -- but a sync option for the website/server would be neat.
<kenvandine> james_w, someone told me you did that with bughugger ?
<tedg> james_w: Hmm, that's no good because I can't remember who told me that -- I was hoping you'd know :)
<qense> or maybe Ubuntu One could use the code of a GTG website.
<aquarius> qense, the thought has crossed my mind, yes :-)
<kenvandine> tedg, it was me...
<tedg> james_w: Blame kenvandine! ;)
<kenvandine> but i heard it from someone else
<dobey> mvo: so you weren't in the ubuntuone login UI session at uds, but it was mentioned that software center a gtk+ ui to do authentication against the ubuntu SSO service. from that session, we're planning on pulling out our dbus auth service into a more general project to authenticate against the ubuntu SSO (and potentially do extra things, like the oauth pieces), and I was wondering if you had any thoughts on what we should nam
<kenvandine> spreading rumors i guess
<dobey> mvo: since we'd like to get everything in Ubuntu that needs to auth to the SSO, to use the same UI :)
<james_w> kenvandine: if I had then I would have demoed that, as it would have been clearer what I was doing
<kenvandine> :)
<james_w> I'd love for someone to port it though
<mvo> dobey: cool, I have gtk code that shows a login dialog etc (no need for webkit/browser). but I would love to stop maintaining that and just use a library :)
<james_w> it's not entirely easy right now to use it though, as it depends on a patch to twisted that isn't in a released version yet.
<mvo> dobey: I don't much care about the name, python-ubuntu-sso ?
<tedg> james_w: Ah, is the patch likely to be in Maverick?
<james_w> yes
<mvo> dobey: my stuff is in lp:~mvo/sofware-center/reviews in case you are interessted in the code
<james_w> it's in trunk, so we can just ask jml to make a release targeting maverick
<dobey> mvo: i don't know if we'll provide a library. but we'll provide a dbus service that does auth, registration, etc... so you can just call the login() method (like we currently have for u1), and it will do all the right things and asynchronously tell you when its done, so you can move on to actually reading the data :)
<mvo> dobey: aha, cool
<mvo> dobey: I do need the actual token from it, will that still be possible ?
<dobey> mvo: yes. we need to do some refactoring to make the UX super awesome for all the different things that might use it
<tedg> james_w: Cool, then build from branch will backport it for me ;)
<james_w> \o/
<dobey> mvo: currently we just always store in the keyring, so you get a signal and have to poke the keyring, but currently we only support doing the oauth token fetching on ubuntu one, and not other services that might use the SSO :)
<mvo> dobey: ok, I will follow that with interest, one less thing for me to worry about
<dobey> mvo: and i'd like to refactor it so the kubuntu people can easily have a qt dialog instead :)
<dobey> mvo: but we definitely want a unified sso experience in ubuntu with this
<didrocks> seb128: the new evolution will take some time to merge. I have made all the library/plugins triaging right now (debian changed a lot too), and I have now to convert all our patches away from bono (for LPI support) and from glade to gtkbuilder. There are quite a lot
<mpt> mvo, rickspencer3, tremolux, call in 5 minutes?
<rickspencer3> mpt, sounds good, yeah
<tremolux> mpt: sounds good
<mvo> mpt: conf line or mumble?
<mpt> tremolux, do you have a Mumble account yet?
<tremolux> mpt: unfortunately, no, sorry, new accounts are apparently still on hold
<mpt> ok, conf line it is
<rickspencer3> mpt, I'm calling in now
 * mvo really does not like the music
<mvo> high time we get mumble accounts for everybody
<mpt_> doo do doot do, do do do do-doot do
<tremolux> mvo: yes!  man, this song sticks in my head alllll day
<mvo> lallalalalalaaa
<tremolux> it's entirely too cheerful
<rickspencer3> mpt_, aren
<rickspencer3> t we waiting for you?
<rickspencer3> am I on the right call?
<mpt_> rickspencer3, I'm on your line. Whose line are you on? :-)
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> I'm on your line
 * rickspencer3 dials into own line
<mpt_> I don't have a line, I'm not a manager
<rickspencer3> I got it from the invite
<mvo> bÃ¤Ã¤
<mvo> I'm one mpts line
<mvo> the one on the invitation
<mpt_> oh crikey
<tremolux> I'm on the invite line as well
<mvo> someone need to give me a the new code if I need to re-dial
<pitti> mpt_: seems you are a manager now :)
<mvo> fast promotion!
 * tremolux wants me mumble
<mpt_> That's ivanka's line
<mpt_> sorry
<mpt_> I forgot that was still there
<rickspencer3> okay
<rickspencer3> switch to mine:
<rickspencer3> 2455480861
<tremolux> k
<kenvandine> whew... rebooting into maverick... hopefully will brb
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<Nafai> good morning
<kenvandine> woot
<kenvandine> all seems good
<kenvandine> didrocks, when do you think there will be maverick builds of unity?
<kenvandine> hey Nafai
<didrocks> kenvandine: eow, I think
<didrocks> hey Nafai
<Nafai> Hi kenvandine
<kenvandine> cook
<Nafai> I think I caught a flu or something over the weekend :(
<kenvandine> cool even :)
<kenvandine> ubuflu!
<seb128> didrocks, no need to port the small screen patches to new evo for now
<didrocks> seb128: ok, so only LPI is needed?
<seb128> didrocks, the ui changed so they might be deprecated
<didrocks> seb128: I was afraid by the bunch of work there :)
<seb128> didrocks, keep those somewhere in the source but not used
<seb128> didrocks, yes
<seb128> didrocks, if they are not deprecated oem will need to provide us updated changes since the changes come from them there
<didrocks> ok, I'll try to see how the lp-bono can be ported to new upstream
<seb128> didrocks, well as any other desktop component
<didrocks> seb128: understood. Thanks! That makes my life much much much easier :)
<seb128> use the standard lpi not the bonobo one
<seb128> didrocks, ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, welcome you are!
<didrocks> seb128: right, but upstream don't seem to use gtkbuilder for the menu, so a little bit more search is needed :)
<didrocks> seb128: heh
<seb128> didrocks, we have some other sources not using gtkbuilder, the lpi source might have an example too
<seb128> didrocks, it's basically "get the menu widget and use the add function on it"
<didrocks> seb128: ok, I'll have a look at it, thanks (finishing e-d-s first)
<seb128> didrocks, see gucharmap-lpint.patch in the lpi source
 * didrocks notes that down
<seb128> didrocks, it's only a one call to launchpad_integration_add_items(Ã 
<seb128> ()
<seb128> didrocks, it's only a one call to launchpad_integration_add_items()
<seb128> I meant
<didrocks> sweet, should be easy to do
<didrocks> thanks again :)
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> session restart, brb
<nigelb> hey seb128, congrats on being tech lead this cycle :)
<seb128> hey nigelb, thanks!
<nigelb> Are there anymore apps on default cd that need apport hooks?
<nigelb> I was thinking of offereing that for mentorship on the bug squad list for anyone who's interested
<seb128> need to think about that but most likely yes
<nigelb> if you can poke me with a list later when you have time, I'll see that its worked on :)
<seb128> nigelb, ok thanks
<nigelb> :)
<seb128> nigelb, I guess you could work gedit and nautilus for example
<seb128> getting changed gconf values
<nigelb> ok :)
<tseliot> pitti: I would like to request an SRU for bug #580763 (and fix 540171 too). It would fix a rather annoying video corruption bug. Any objections?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 580763 in nvidia-graphics-drivers "[REQUEST SRU] Please update Nvidia-current to 195.36.24" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/580763
<pitti> tseliot: can you please subscribe ubuntu-sru and ask there? I (or another SRU member) will followup by mail
<pitti> tseliot: without having looked at it, fixing video bugs is always nice if it doesn't introduce a regression potential
<rickspencer3> pitti, can you paste me the link for your wiki page on how to specify work items in blueprints?
<rickspencer3> the syntax, I mean
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto
<pitti> rickspencer3: ^
<rickspencer3> thanks
<tseliot> pitti: sure, it's what I planned on doing next. Thanks
<Daviey> rickspencer3: Is there any way to predict how much cache bughugger needs to download for a given search?
<Daviey> it's downloaded 20M so far.. :/
<rickspencer3> Daviey, uh ...
<rickspencer3> not so that I know, sorry
<rickspencer3> tbh, I only use the json searches these days
<Daviey> rickspencer3: yeah, i'm using a team sub'd package search, and it seems to be bigger than i expected :)
<rickspencer3> yeah, those are BIG searches for sure
<rickspencer3> lots of bug tasks
<Daviey> oh well.. thanks :)
<rickspencer3> I think a json search would serve you better
<rickspencer3> which team is it?
<Daviey> rickspencer3: ~ubuntu-server
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> is there not a json search set up for that already?
 * rickspencer3 looks
<Daviey> oh, there is!
<rickspencer3> I am always one step ahead!
<seb128> ;-)
<Daviey> wow, that was "somewhat" faster
 * Nafai curses the ubuflu
<dobey> Nafai: i guess you didn't drink enough beer then :)
<Nafai> heh.  nope, I don't drink :)
<Daviey> thanks rickspencer3
<mpt_> tremolux, remember to fill in foundations-m-software-center-roadmap
<tremolux> mpt_: yep, thanks!
<tremolux> mpt_: restored to gobby; I'll paste it to the whiteboard as well
<mpt_> brilliant, thanks
<didrocks> mvo: are you planning to do the zlib merge or can I steal it? The current one seems to not shipping a .pc file, which is a little bitâ¦ embarrassing :)
<mvo> didrocks: you can have it
<didrocks> mvo: yeah \o/
<dieki> Hey, I had a quick question about the Software Center; At UDS it was stated that new applications will be added after release.
<dieki> Does this include new versions of existing applications?
<dieki> For instance, during the time between the release of Karmic and the release of Lucid, Firefox 3.6 was released, but there was no really easy way to get it.
<dieki> Will new major versions be easily upgradable through the software center?
<dobey> dieki: i suppose if Mozilla puts firefox packages in this new thing, or it gets into backports, yes. but i think the UDS discussion was about people writing new apps and getting them released to users of already released ubuntu
<dieki> Okay.
<dobey> dieki: in general, i don't think new major versions will be pushed via this new mechanism as a means for upgrading the distro
<chrisccoulson> dieki - the process is not applicable for firefox anyway, as stable releases will be getting new upstream versions
<dobey> but PPAs are a bit complex to require users to use
<dieki> chriscoulson: Okay.
<dobey> chrisccoulson: i think he was more asking about karmic getting 3.6 for example
<chrisccoulson> karmic will be getting 3.6
<chrisccoulson> as will hardy and jaunty
<dieki> How so? Backports?
<dobey> well yeah, firefox is special
<chrisccoulson> dieki, no, via security
<dobey> because it's usually a drastic change for security fixes, so they can't just be backported to 3.5 etc... easily
<dieki> I see.
<dieki> What about other applications?
<dieki> Will old releases be getting, say, Thunderbird 3.0?
<chrisccoulson> dieki, eventually, yes
<dieki> So... did a major policy change occur?
<dobey> dieki: i think you're looking at this the wrong way. old releases will be getting security updates in the same way they always have been, if they are supported as such for getting them
<chrisccoulson> i think thats the plan for TB anyway
<chrisccoulson> dieki, for mozilla, yes
<dieki> Oh, okay. This doesn't affect other applications, say GIMP, then?
<dobey> dieki: this new thing from UDS is about allowing "opportunistic developers" and such, easier methods for shipping software to ubuntu users
<chrisccoulson> dieki, see https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-new-firefox-support-model
<dobey> dieki: it doesn't affect anything already in ubuntu
<dieki> Okay, I get it. Thanks.
<dieki> But will there be any method to upgrade all the other applications? In Maverick, that is.
<dieki> My understanding was that that couldn't be done because it would require the upgrades of system components, which would break other stuff. But adding new apps would do that too.
<dobey> dieki: if your question is 'how do i always run bleeding edge' i think the answer is 'always run bleeding edge' :)
<dieki> :)
<dieki> I always run bleeding edge anyway.
<dobey> dieki: new gnome/gimp/etc... will not get pushed to older versions of ubuntu
<dieki> Okay.
<dobey> would sort of defeat the purpose of having an LTS and such at that point :)
<dieki> Yeah. But then what do we do with the people who want the newest version of OpenOffice\GIMP\Chrome\Whatever, and Ubuntu doesn't have it in it's repos?
<dieki> Is that what PPAs are supposed to be for?
<dobey> the answer is "build it yourself, subscribe to a PPA that has it, or run the devel ubuntu"
<dobey> or "install via some other means, because you're likely to anyway"
<dobey> for example the firefox install script they give you from getfirefox.com, etc...
<dieki> Well, I suppose that is the only way to do it and keep the system stable.
<dobey> if you care about keeping the system stable, you're not running the "latest" of those anyway
<dieki> True.
<dobey> and you're probably only running LTS releases
<dieki> In which case the situation gets worse, though, since you have to wait two years to get a modern version of OpenOffice.
<dieki> And the stable versions released inbetween were probably sstable.
<dieki> *stable
<dobey> if you care that much about openoffice, it's probably because you're doing a lot with it, and your corporate IT support infrastructure probably has some plan for you to get it
<dobey> or you don't care about stability as much as you claim, and you're not going to stick on LTS for 2 years :)
<vish> seb128: hi.. for Maverick , could you update lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release ? fixes a few minor problems/bugs
<dieki> I'm thinking more about the non-techie users I'm setting up systems for.
<dieki> What I have seen, and this may not at all be typical, is that the user's friend will say "Hey, have you checked out the latest version of <insert app name here>? It's totally cool"
<dieki> And then the user says "No, I haven't, let me run the update manager and get that"
<dieki> And then... they can't.
<dieki> But then this may not be a normal scenario, I haven't done any real studies on it.
<dieki> And the only applications I've seen this for were the Mozilla ones, which will now be updated to stable releases. :)
<dobey> well
<dobey> that's a harder problem to solve
<dobey> because in windows you don't have update manager and standard distribution channels, you have random exe or msi downloads
<dieki> Yeah. They took the easy way out. :)
<dobey> the right solution is getting <randomapp> that's latest and cool to provide packages for ubuntu
<dobey> well, apple took the easy way out
<dobey> they just control everything that you can install on the ipad/ipod/iphone :)
<dieki> But even if they do, won't <randomapp>'s packages not be included until the next release?
<dieki> :D I don't see how that makes it much easier, but I'm not too familiar with how their system works.
<dobey> dieki: they won't necessarily be included at all
<dobey> dieki: but that's what PPAs and apt repos are for
<dieki> Even if <randomapp> was already in?
<dobey> and this is how we delivered ubuntu one to jaunty users for example
<dobey> ubuntu one is in ubuntu
<dobey> but we also provide some PPAs for nightlies or newer stable builds for karmic for example
<dieki> Yeah.
<dobey> they'll be a bit better organized soon, but it's the only way to do what you're suggesting
<dobey> well, only good way
<dobey> we could also put .deb files on random web servers and have people just install them instead
<sash_> nice idea :)
<dieki> My thought was that new stable versions might be included in the software center next to the old stable version. That way, if the user wants the new stable version, the can install it. (Dependencies would of course be set up so as to remove the old stable version if installed)
<sash_> "Dependencies would of course be set up so as to remove the old stable version if installed" <- thats not that easy
<dobey> dieki: PPAs show up in the software center
<dobey> sash_: it is that easy. just put them in a PPA. problem is new dependencies might end up removing a lot of other things the user cares about :)
<dieki> sash_: How hard is it? I had thought that dependencies could specify packages to be removed.
<sash_> but what if appA from ppa depends on libXY0-1.1 and appB from standard-repos depends on libXY0-1.08
<sash_> and both libs cannot be installed at the same time?
<dieki> Hm. That is a problem. But how does the new system of adding applications after release get around that?
<dieki> Might one of the new applications depend on libXY0-1.1?
<dieki> Or will apps like that not be allowed?
<sash_> in a stable release, that should not happen. and even doesnt afaik ;)
<dobey> dieki: the new system doesn't get around it. it's not a way to subvert the existing system, it's a way to deploy new apps to it
<sash_> dieki: in a stable-releases, programs have no upgrades, except safety
<dobey> dieki: the system you're deploying to is the sdk, you need to work with what's in ubuntu, not replace it
<dieki> Okay. Wow. This is far more complicated than I could have imagined.
<dieki> :)
<dobey> no, it's really rather simple
<dobey> you're just trying to make it complicated :)
<dieki> :)
<dieki> I mean, what I'm trying to do is complicated. :)
<dieki> I wonder how Apple does it.
<dobey> you don't ship new windows applications to users by sending them an upgrade disc :)
<dobey> apple doesn't do it
<dieki> iPhone apps don't get major upgrades?
<dobey> apple controls what is shipped in their OS
<dobey> dieki: "major upgrade" is a rather inconsequential view for iphone
<dobey> dieki: you can't replace the kernel on iphone to make your app upgrade work, no :)
<dobey> dieki: you get to use the APIs provided by the system and nothing else
<dieki> Ohh... because they control everything, they can pretend libXY-1.1 doesn't exist.
<dieki> Because it doesn't.
<dieki> Well, I thank you for explaining this all to me.
<rickspencer3> seb128, here'
<rickspencer3> s a draft: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/WorkItemProcess
 * rickspencer3 leaves for gym
<pitti> good night everyone!
<rickspencer3> 'night pitti
<didrocks> good night pitti
<seb128> re
<seb128> 'night pitti
<seb128> vish, it's early for maverick, I've not upgraded yet, will have to wait a bit
<seb128> rickspencer3, thanks
<vish> seb128: np , ok.. mainly wanted to get it done for an SRU for Lucid of for  10.04.1 atleast
<vish> s/of/or
<seb128> vish, doing sru is easier there
<seb128> get the change uploaded as a sru to lucid-proposed then get it copying to maverick automatically from there
<vish> oh..
<seb128> there is no point to do 2 uploads
<vish> seb128: hmm, how do i get it uploaded to lucid-proposed? [  tried to read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates and thought +1 and then sru was the way]
<chrisccoulson> bah, gnome-screensaver really doesn't work at all in kvm
<seb128> vish, do what is written on this wiki but don't bother about +1
<vish> seb128: neat thanks..
<seb128> in practice we often do upload as a sru and copy to +1 on soyuz
<seb128> the wikipage should perhaps get updated
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertAncell/CoreDevApplication
<ccheney> pitti: i noticed the ddebs openoffice.org packages aren't available for amd64, is there a way to fix that, or is someone else in charge of ddebs now?
<Sarvatt> anyone interested in a *massive* speedup of xchat's scrollback reloading speed? It dropped the load time from close to a minute at 100% cpu usage down to ~4 seconds here with 32 channels worth on this atom CPU. http://sarvatt.com/downloads/patches/xchat_2.8.6-4ubuntu6.debdiff
<Sarvatt> it's just a backport of an upstream commit and will probably be a few more years until there's another x-chat release with it :D
<Sarvatt> things building with dh_gconf in maverick currently are pulling in a unfulfillable gconf2 (>= 2.28.1-2) dependency when we have 2.28.1-0ubuntu1, should I file a bug against debhelper about it?
<Sarvatt> i've got maximus xchat-common mutter-common simple-scan tomboy update-notifier and update-notifier-common built in maverick all uninstallable because of it
<kklimonda> why not upgrade gconf to the new unstable version?
<Sarvatt> thats why I was asking if I should file a bug against debhelper or just wait for gconf to be updated, i dont think we'd ever have 2.28.1-2 anyway
<Sarvatt> the debhelper changelog for maverick mentioned lowering the requirement in dh_gconf to fix it but it still has addsubstvar($package, "misc:Depends", "gconf2 (>= 2.28.1-2)") unless $gconf_dep;
<seb128> Sarvatt, I will resync gconf2
<Sarvatt> \o/ thanks seb128
<didrocks> well, evolution 2.30 is crashy there :/ will have a look tomorrow
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> how are you doing?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: well, evolution stack took a long time to update, apart from that, I'm fine, thanks :) You?
<chrisccoulson> i'm trying to make gnome-screensaver work in kvm right now
<chrisccoulson> looking forward to start on maverick, but that could be a long time away ;)
<didrocks> is there really a use case for gnome-screensaver in kvm? :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - i'm not sure. currently it crashes when you try and lock the screen
<chrisccoulson> but it could crash outside of kvm if the X extensions required for fading aren't there
<chrisccoulson> (eg, on LTSP)
<didrocks> urgh
<didrocks> grrr, I can't get my emails now as evo is crashing when clicking on any email
<chrisccoulson> heh, that's not good
<didrocks> clearly not :/
<chrisccoulson> gnome-screensaver works in kvm now though ;)
<chrisccoulson> that doesn't help with your e-mails though
<didrocks> not at all, to be honest ;)
<didrocks> it's not a crash, it's a hang, hence the fact it's not easy to debug
 * ccheney back from doctor, that took entirely too long, he prescribed medicine my insurance wouldn't cover so had to go back and have him rewrite it :-\
<lowje> Hi
<rickspencer3> hi lowje
<Sarvatt> Setting up gconf2 (2.28.1-3ubuntu1) ...
<Sarvatt> WARNING: Failed to parse default value `[????????? ???????;gnome-appearance-properties.desktop,????????? ???????????? ???????????;gnome-default-applications.desktop,?????????? ??????????;system-config-printer.desktop] ' for schema (/schemas/apps/control-center/cc_actions_list)
<Sarvatt> hmm
<lowje> I found a bug about gnome-panel on the LiveCD of Lucid but according to https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-panel, "Desktop panel for GNOME does not use Launchpad for bug tracking". Where am I supposed to report?
<lowje> noone knows? :s
<pochu> lowje: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel
<lowje> thanks pochu
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-18
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, can you sponsor glib for me from bzr?  Also consider adding an endorsment to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertAncell/CoreDevApplication/ so I can stop bothering you for sponsoring :)
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Ok I'll see what I can do. Feeling a little lousy today so not sure if I want to trust myself with uploads when not at 100%, but I'll take a look.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, np.  It's a trivial patch adding a missing include (the build servers freak out on 64 bit platforms as there is an undefined function (i.e. defaults to returning int) being converted to a pointer)
<TheMuso> ah ok
<robert_ancell> so my build box built it ok on i386, couldn't catch that one before release :)
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: The patch is not in the repo
<robert_ancell> pushing now...
<TheMuso> thanks
<TheMuso> got it
<TheMuso> yeah this is trivial enough.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Do you use bzr builddeb to build the package?
<robert_ancell> yes
<robert_ancell> bzr buildeb everywhere!
<TheMuso> hrm interesting. I am surprised the build process succeeded then.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, why?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: I would think that if builddeb packaged up the package without the patch, the build would have failed.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, oh, no I hadn't tried to build with this patch (the change was made on my lucid box)
<TheMuso> ah ok
<TheMuso> Right, I am using lucid witgh a maverick chroot.
<TheMuso> Test buildnig on amd64.
<TheMuso> gah typing
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, using pbuilder?  Mine didn't seem to work right
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Using sbuild.
<robert_ancell> never heard of that
<TheMuso> Ah ok. Its an alternative to pbuilder, and uses LVM snapshots for chroots.
<robert_ancell> handy
<TheMuso> Very much so. It gives me chroots to test in, as well as chroots to build in.
<TheMuso> When using sbuild/schroot, you have a snapshot made of your existing chroot for building/testing, and when you finish, the chroot is destroyed, with no change made to the source chroot.
<TheMuso> And its easy to update the source chroot when you need to.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: build succeeded and uploaded.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, thanks!
<TheMuso> np
<TheMuso> Will comment on your application ASAP.
 * robert_ancell ->lunch
<eeejay> so lucid is a dvd?
<TheMuso> eeejay: no
<TheMuso> eeejay: at least afaik
<eeejay> TheMuso, cdimage.ubuntu.com is showing me a dvd, weird
<TheMuso> hrm that is weird.
 * TheMuso looks.
<kklimonda> http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/10.04/
<TheMuso> eeejay: right, try releases.ubuntu.com
<eeejay> ah, ok
<eeejay> weird, didn't know there were dvds too
<eeejay> thought i was phished for a second
<TheMuso> heh
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> Good morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> didrocks: Tired :)
<RAOF> Jetlagged is probably a better description.
<pitti> hey RAOF, good morning didrocks
<didrocks> hello pitti
<RAOF> Hey pitti.
<pitti> didrocks: how's maverick?
<didrocks> pitti: good to me, once I've fight with my nvidia card to enforce it to use nouveau and not vesa :)
 * RAOF perks up.
<RAOF> My nvidia netbook looks like it might almost have finished the dist-upgrade, some two hours after I started it.
<TheMuso> Hey RAOF. I can certainly join the jetlagged club.
<RAOF> Good thing Robbie factored in a âUDS hangoverâ week :)
<TheMuso> I rarely get jetlagged, but it has to do with the time I flew out of Europe I think.
<RAOF> I think that if
<RAOF> I didn't have to spend *another* 9 hours on the SingaporeâMelbourne flight I would have been ok :)
<TheMuso> Yeah me too, although I still had to sleep on the Singapore to Sydney leg.
<RAOF> I didn't manage to do that.  Perversely, while the SingaporeâMelbourne A380 was more comfortable generally, the HeathrowâSingapore 747 was more comfortable to sleep in.
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> I have found that as well, for some reason I can sleep better on the 747.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, it took you 9 hours to get to Melboune from sydney?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: That *would* be a feat.  No, that was *Singapore* â Melbourne.
<robert_ancell> oh, that makes more sense :)
<seb128> hey robert_ancell RAOF
<RAOF> Hey seb
<didrocks> hey seb128, how are you?
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> good! you?
<seb128> hum, update done, restart, brb
<seb128> re
<didrocks> seb128: I'm fine thanks. Pondering if I upload or not the evo merge (there is just a new version on debian unstable and I merged from experimental yesterday) :)
<seb128> didrocks, new version being "upload to unstable"?
<seb128> robert_ancell, drop directfb, it was useful for the debian installer only
<seb128> robert_ancell, they moved it to use x11 now
<pitti> hey seb128
<didrocks> seb128: little changes in evolution and e-d-s, just not "upload to unstable"
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> didrocks, you can upload what you want, anybody running maverick now can deal with small issues
<didrocks> seb128: I should mention as well that even the unstable debian version (and my merge) makes the ui freeze with my current .evolution when clicking on an email :/ I don't have that issue with a clean .evolution directory. Don't know if it's only for meâ¦
<seb128> I'm amazed some people run maverick already
<seb128> didrocks, ok, still good for maverick to upload ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: ok, hope my merge is good, evolution is not that fun to merge TBH, especially when upstream changed a lot their code/plugins as well debian for the packaging :-)
<didrocks> uploading now, will do evolution-mapi and evolution-exchange later
<seb128> yeah, I know ;-)
<seb128> those are probably direct syncs
<didrocks> the delta is small, but I didn't review them yet. I should rather do some blueprints/paperwork now
<seb128> ok, have fun
<didrocks> thanks :)
<robert_ancell> seb128, cool, just wanted to check if anyone else was using it
<seb128> robert_ancell, if they do they will complain soon enough
<robert_ancell> :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, but previous time I checked with people on IRC it was only the installer
<seb128> robert_ancell, running maverick already?
<seb128> robert_ancell, is it stable enough to be used?
<robert_ancell> seb128, running it on my netbook.  Seems fine so far but I don't think there's been many changes yet
<didrocks> it runs fine there (running from yesterday), nothing noticeable to me, appart from some nvidia hellness
<seb128> you guys are crack addicts ;-)
<seb128> I will upgrade a vm today so I can test some of the merges I do
<RAOF> didrocks: That was nvidia, not nouveau, right?  Nouveau just worked for my netbook.
<RAOF> seb128: Hah!  You, with your testable-in-VM merges :)
<didrocks> RAOF: right, but the fallback to say "hey, you can't use anymore your silly nvidia driver" fallback to vesa. I had to run update-alternative by hand to say I really want nouveau
<seb128> RAOF, lol
<seb128> good point ;-)
<seb128> the good thing is that you guys will complain if I break something
<seb128> ie no complain means I didn't break gconf yesterday? ;-)
<robert_ancell> later all
<RAOF> didrocks: Ok.  I know why that is.  Hurray for nvidia replacing important parts of the X stack?
<didrocks> seb128: well, I have some strange encoding with the trigger on gconf, but I'll have a deeper look later
<seb128> didrocks, encoding error you mean?
<RAOF> didrocks: The one where a schema install fails with a message like â??????????? gnome-whatever-something-or-other ????????????????????? stuff ??????????????â
<didrocks> seb128: what RAOF said ^^
<seb128> ok
<seb128> it's likely a simple schemas translation issue
<seb128> RAOF, serie goal != target milestone btw
<seb128> RAOF, not sure if you confused both, it seems you set the target milestone for your specs
<RAOF> seb128: I did set the target milestone.  Gah, sorry.
<seb128> RAOF, that's ok, you can't set the serie anyway, just suggest and somebody need to accept it
<seb128> RAOF, I'm settings the series so no need to bother with those
<RAOF> Thanks.
<seb128> re
<seb128> is there anybody around who fancy doing some testing for things still blue on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html?
<didrocks> I can do some on lucid with my netbook, like simple-scan and glib (evince, xsane and poppler are mine, so I can't "vote")
<didrocks> (imapx has a really impressive speedup btw)
<seb128> didrocks, imapx? is that new evo?
<didrocks> seb128: yes, the new evo imap protocol
<seb128> pitti, bug #33288, should it be flagged verification-done?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 33288 in poppler (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "Evince doesn't handle columns properly (affects: 28) (dups: 9) (heat: 248)" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33288
<didrocks> seb128: got all my emails in less than 10 minutes when it takes more than one hour
<seb128> nice
<didrocks> the bad thing is that you have to resynchronize your whole account, you can't switch from imap to imapx without this
<pitti> seb128: I'd like to see some more tests with other documents; it was an enormous patch
<seb128> pitti, ok
<seb128> didrocks, no need to bother changing breaks or conflicts etc for versions before lucid
<seb128> didrocks, since we don't support upgrades from before lucid now, we can drop those deltas
<didrocks> seb128: I was wondering if I keep that or not, but ok, I'll remove it in next upload
<didrocks> seb128: do you make a blueprint on the wiki for default app selection (I'm thinking about desktop and UNE) as there are some random pieces into it?
<seb128> didrocks, did we previous cycle? let me check
<seb128> didrocks, yes
<seb128> didrocks, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/DefaultsApps
<didrocks> seb128: thanks, I'll base on that
<chrisccoulson> didrocks -a re you tracking the chromium change on the same blueprint?
<chrisccoulson> i think rickspencer3 was talking about having one specific for chromium yesterday
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: no, only the seed on UNE one, I guess all the other should go to the new one
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: did you create it? do you want me to do it?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - feel free to do that, i've still got all this hardy work to do
<pitti> mvo: do you know why /var/cache/apt/srcpkgcache.bin comes back even without having any deb-src? (it wastes 13 MB)
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm good thanks, how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks
<chrisccoulson> are you still processing the SRU queue in your new role, or should i pester somebody else about it? ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it's sticky, so I'll have a look every now and then, but not that often any more
<pitti> I hope cjwatson and jdong can help out a bit, as well as slangasek
<chrisccoulson> pitti - ok, no worries
<seb128> there is already some people complaining it seems
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<seb128> we need new people to step in ;-)
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<Laney> maybe the SRU team should call for new members
<mvo> pitti: the name is actually misleading, it contains a cache of the content of sources.list, pkgcache.bin contains a cache for the content of the lists/ directory. it should be possible to just set this via "dir::cache::srcpkgcache to "" and its gone
<mvo> pitti: the performance hit should be (for most cases) very small
<pitti> mvo: \o/
<pitti> mvo: danke
<mvo> pitti: is this for the livefs?
<pitti> mvo: that perhaps, too; I'm currently investigating how small a small installation can be
<mvo> pitti: its actually a very good point, I wonder how much it still matters nowdays, I will talk to david about it
<pitti> and those two cache files are 26 MB
<pitti> (in my test chroot anyway)
<mvo> you could get rid of both, but without pkgcache.bin it will always have to build that cache in memory
<mvo> if size really matter that may be a worthwhile trade-off
<pitti> my chroot is 476 MB now, and I identified a few relatively easy additional savings which can bring it down to 406 MB
<mvo> but srcpkgcache.bin should not matter in most cases
<pitti> (with xfce, custom kernel, small seed, etc.)
 * mvo celebrates commit r777 in software-center trunk
 * pitti -> lunch
<didrocks> Is anybody aware of a way to add an environment variable to a desktop file like Exec=FOO=bar command? (I tried to escape it, using quotesâ¦). I only see a wrapper as a way to do it right now.
<soren> didrocks: bash -c "foo=bar dostuff"
<soren> didrocks: perhaps.
<didrocks> soren: let's have a try :)
<soren> s/bash/sh/, probably.
<seb128> didrocks, what soren said I would do too
<didrocks> soren: yeah, that work. Still better than a wrapper :)
<didrocks> soren: thanks
<soren> didrocks: Sure.
<didrocks> ok, I think I will set CLUTTER_VBLANK to none for netbook-launcher, the new clutter has a lot of regression on different hw making une unusable for them and this trick seems to fix for them without having negative impact on netbook-launcher
<seb128> didrocks, or delay the clutter update for now?
<didrocks> seb128: oh, I mean, with clutter 1.2, the one in lucid (I'm speaking about an SRU)
<seb128> doesn't seem something we need to update now
<seb128> oh ok
<didrocks> I receive a lot of bug mail :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I've just made a first quick iteration on WI for chromium (https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-chromium), feel free to add more
 * rickspencer3 looks
<rickspencer3> didrocks, may I rename the blueprint?
<rickspencer3> "Chromium for UNE"?
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, good morning
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<rickspencer3> good afternoon
<didrocks> rickspencer3: sure, this is surely a better name :) I was thinking about getting a true support model for it, but it's probably better stating "on UNE"
<chrisccoulson> thanks didrocks, will have a look in a bit
<chrisccoulson> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi chrisccoulson
<rickspencer3> hope you are well today
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, yeah, i'm good thanks. how are you today?
<rickspencer3> doing well
<rickspencer3> slept until almost 5am today
<rickspencer3> and went to bed at 9pm, so getting over jetlag
<rickspencer3> didrocks, chrisccoulson we should ask jcastro to get us in touch with evan from Google asap
<rickspencer3> so we can coordinate the Chromium on UNE blueprint
<rickspencer3> seb128, I talked to the shotwell guys yesterday
<didrocks> rickspencer3: that will be good, right
<rickspencer3> they are psyched to be chosen for default on Ubuntu
<rickspencer3> since robert_ancell already has a relationship with them, I was thinking he could be the main liason
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, yeah, i don't envy your long trip ;)
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, "twenty twenty twenty four hours to go ... I want to be sedated"
<rickspencer3> ;)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - for the desktop-maverick-une-app-selection blueprint, we probably need to do a bit more than seed chromium and remove firefox
<chrisccoulson> ideally, we also need to get the webkit version of yelp in, split spidermonkey from xulrunner, drop xulrunner and make couchdb depend on spidermonkey
<chrisccoulson> else it won't fit on the CD ;)
<chrisccoulson> it's pretty much double the size of firefox right now
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, yay!
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I was thinking that would go to the chromium spec, but it there are some bit feel free to add workitem for the xulrunner and couchdb thing (just added a "ensure it works" for now) :)
<didrocks> so, that means we have to update to last yelp on maverick? (the one in lucid isn't using webkit IIRC)
<rickspencer3> seb128, chrisccoulson I was thinking about chromium ...
<rickspencer3> do they have patches that we should take into the distro?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - yeah, we'll need to the latest version of yelp so that we can drop xulrunner from UNE
<rickspencer3> like if they made sqllite faster, don't we want a generally faster sql lite?
<chrisccoulson> else we're going to struggle to find the space
<chrisccoulson> i don't know what seb128 feels about that ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: and for couchdb, do you think it's also possible?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, chrisccoulson in terms of couchdb, I think we should do whatever we can to get futon off the CD
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - couchdb is only using spidermonkey, so i could split up the xulrunner package
<rickspencer3> it's a waste of space, and U1 team is taking over slip cover for desktopcouch management
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: sweet, I'm feeling a little bit better now considering cd space so :)
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<didrocks> rickspencer3: really? slip cover FTW \o/
<seb128> sorry I was working on a gtk update
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, futon isn't really the problem though, not sure if it can be split out
<seb128> reading backlog
<kenvandine> but we can look
<rickspencer3> I thought futon required xulrunner, and all this
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> it is  more
<kenvandine> the views inside the db
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, is it futon that requires spidermonkey?
<rickspencer3> or is xulrunner for the actual json parsing?
<kenvandine> use spidermonkey
<seb128> rickspencer3, robert_ancell for shotwell liaison++
<rickspencer3> seb128, thanks, I'll tell him it was your idea
<kenvandine> hehe
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, in any case, Futon is not useful, so if it takes up space, let's get it out of there
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> rickspencer3, lol, thanks, you can tell him we agree on the idea rather ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm not sure how short on CD space UNE is right now
 * didrocks adds a WI to rickspencer3: "update Quickly tutorial to user slip cover"
<seb128> chrisccoulson, but I agree with you plan of action for it
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, chrisccoulson, didrocks, pitti, ArneGoetje, did you guys calculate your WI throughput yet?
 * rickspencer3 hint hint hint
<didrocks> seb128: well, more or less like the desktop right now considering CD space, not a lot of free space
<seb128> we can drop langpacks for now
<seb128> and deal with xulrunner split a bit later
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, will do :)
<pitti> rickspencer3: sorry, not yet; what's the divisor? i. e. how many weeks of development should we assume?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: I didn't have all my WI set for maverick yet, should be ok this evening, I hope
<seb128> didrocks, the maverick wis are for thursday you have time
<rickspencer3> pitti, we need a weekly calculation, as each iteration has different number of weeks
<rickspencer3> for A2, it's 6 weeks
<seb128> didrocks, today you should have this number and your list of specs
<rickspencer3> also, don't forget the .75 multiplier to account for 10.04.1
<pitti> rickspencer3: I got 81 WIs done in lucid; I just wonder how many weeks I should assume for development; it's certainly much less than 26
<didrocks> rickspencer3: seb128: the thing for lucid WI is that I only get those on January, not for the whole lucid cycle
<pitti> rickspencer3: but that number of weeks should be by and large the same for everyone?
<rickspencer3> pitti, about the same
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, i haven't done anything with WI's yet, i'm trying to get all this mozilla work done so i can make a start on maverick
<seb128> didrocks, it's a number of item by work week, you should be able to adapt with your number of weeks
<rickspencer3> I guess you had 8 weeks of full on development
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, true, you are a special case
<didrocks> ok, will do that and adapt from your number guys
<pitti> rickspencer3: it's much more than 8, though; I started before UDS with some things, and I did some cleanup stuff post-beta
<rickspencer3> pitti, actually, I guess 12
<pitti> a lot of folks did WIs after beta, in fact
<rickspencer3> pitti, ack, so it's idosyncratic
<seb128> didrocks, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/WorkItemProcess
<rickspencer3> what I really want is everyone to do their own estimates based on evidence from Lucid
<rickspencer3> I'm not sure there is a "one size fits all" calculation
<pitti> rickspencer3: 16 weeks seems realistic for me, so I have about 5/week
<rickspencer3> pitti, ok but mulitply by .75 to account for 10.04.1
<rickspencer3> so 4/week
<pitti> don't count on that for maverick, though :)
<baptistemm> hello
<seb128> hey baptistemm
<rickspencer3> then by .2 to account for being on rotation
<pitti> rickspencer3: times 0.2 for the rotation :)
<rickspencer3> so about 1 per week
<baptistemm> hi seb128
<seb128> didrocks, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-une-app-selection
<seb128> didrocks, gthumb -> eog I guess
<didrocks> seb128: fixed, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: can you accept https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-oneconf for maverick, please?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: FYI, I've add the quickly-GC integration to Quickly blueprint to avoid over brain breakage for two WI on another blueprint
<rickspencer3> didrocks, sounds fine
<seb128> didrocks, done
<rickspencer3> we'll pick that up in A3 or so
<rickspencer3> I think Quickly itself is a higher priority than the GC integration
<rickspencer3> didrocks, sound ok?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: agreed. The API is already there, but apart from the that, the rest can wait
<seb128> didrocks, I think you need a ":" on each wi line btw<
<seb128> pitti, ^ does the lines need to have a ":"?
<pitti> yes
<pitti> to separate description from status
<didrocks> seb128: pitti: ok
<seb128> I was not sure if none was equivalent of TODO
<seb128> so checking
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<kenvandine> seb128, can you accept this for maverick?
<kenvandine> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-social-api
<kenvandine> seb128, or do you want to do that after all the work items are listed?
<seb128> kenvandine, I can do that now
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> ok, I'm out for a bit, will read backlog when I'm back
<kenvandine> later seb128
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i suppose in calculating our WI rate we should round down to be conservative?
<kenvandine> fractions aren't very useful for targets
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, yes please
 * kenvandine thinks it is going to be hard to get everything done with this number :)
<kenvandine> well... everything i want to do :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, exactly
<rickspencer3> choose wisely
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> don't forget the main stream user
<kenvandine> i know
<rickspencer3> it's critical that we hit their expectations for quality
<nigelb> seb128: I haz nautilius hook for you, bug 581812.  Just let me know if any corrections need to be made
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 581812 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Apport hook for nautilus (affects: 1)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581812
<didrocks> my number of set WI is a little bit lower than what my "magical number" enables me for alpha2, but I feel the WI are a little bit longer to tackle and I'll be more busy with unity
<rickspencer3> seb128, no desktop team meeting today, right?
<seb128> rickspencer3, correct
<seb128> nigelb, ok, thanks
<LaserJock> didrocks: is webfav going to be used at all in Maverick?
<didrocks> LaserJock: that's a good question, not used right now in unity if it's <hat you mean
<didrocks> what*
<LaserJock> didrocks: right, do you think such functionality will be required?
<LaserJock> I was just thinking with FF -> Chromium what would happen to webfav if we kept it in Universe
<LaserJock> I'm assuming a similar Chromium extension could be done
<didrocks> LaserJock: TBH, I have no clue about Chromium extension but I think this can be done easily
<LaserJock> from what I've seen poking around, they're easier to make than FF extensions
<LaserJock> I'm just thinking about things that might be targets for Maverick for non-Unity
<didrocks> LaserJock: that can be a good things to do, this is more discoverable than the drag & drop
<nigelb> seb128: bug 582253 for gedit .  If you can ack your satisfaction, I'll get the folks to branch and request merge :)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 582253 in gedit (Ubuntu) "Apport hook for gedit (affects: 1)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582253
<nigelb> Also, if you have any more, I'll get someone to do it
<seb128> nigelb, sorry just back from UDS and having a zillion things to do
<seb128> I've no time for reviews this week
<seb128> try subscribing sponsors
<nigelb> No problem.  I think :)
<nigelb> I know
<nigelb> you on'y want the nondefault gconf right?
<LaserJock> didrocks: what was the reason for Banshee over Rhythmbox?
<didrocks> LaserJock: nothing is decided yet, but having an app for video+music and a better user interface on netbook was considered. I think the session was recorded
<LaserJock> didrocks: so banshee = rhythmbox + totem?
<didrocks> LaserJock: more or less, not sure we will just hide totem or not install it if banshee fits for UNE
<fagan> LaserJock: not really
<seb128> nigelb, either way is fine I guess
<fagan> banshee has a problem with ipods at the moment so its a regression from rhythmbox as a music player
<seb128> LaserJock, on UNE? the reason was to try their netbook interface
<nigelb> seb128: awesome, I'll work to get it in :)
<seb128> LaserJock, they have a system which allows creating different frontends and they did a netbook specific one
<LaserJock> seb128: ah, cool
<seb128> didrocks, totem has a different usecase I doubt we want to uninstall or hide it
<jcastro> fagan: someone's working on libgpod support, there's a branch somewhere
<LaserJock> I just wondered as I normally felt Banshee to be a bit heavier on my netbook
<didrocks> seb128: it was written in the POV, but I guess we will figure out, that's why I put it as optional
<seb128> don't talk about jcastro when he's around, he will always try to find good argument for it :p
<fagan> jcastro: but its a lot of work to fix it.
<didrocks> heh :)
<LaserJock> but a netbook-specific UI would be quite interesting
<didrocks> jcastro has an hilight on banshee, I can't believe it /o\
<jcastro> heh
<fagan> I like banshee though and its better than totem because it at least has library management
<fagan> its just the ipod stuff is a deal breaker
<seb128> those are totally different softwares, you can't compare those
<jcastro> I'm no expert but I'm going to guess libgpod bindings for banshee would be easier than rewriting the entire rb UI for UNE
<LaserJock> so if I just click on a video file in nautilus, what will come up?
<seb128> totem
<seb128> totem is a viewer, you want to view things on double click
<LaserJock> hmm, so then we'd have 2 video players?
<seb128> we don't open f-spot either on double click on an image
<seb128> as you have f-spot and eog yes
<seb128> one is a collection manager the other a viewer
<seb128> there is a different usecase for each
<fagan> wow did we forget to remove eog when f-spot got a viewer?
<seb128> if you want to quickly preview something you downloaded you don't want to start your library
<seb128> fagan, no, it was a decision, we did add an edit button to the eog toolbar
<LaserJock> ok, but for UNE both fspot and eog are being removed
<seb128> having small viewers is good
<fagan> seb128: that was for lucid what was the maverick decision on it?
<LaserJock> I just wondered if the same thing was happening with banshee
<seb128> use shotwell
<seb128> which has both modes, a manager and a viewer one
<fagan> seb128: for eog I mean
<fagan> so shotwell for everything?
<seb128> yes
<fagan> oh great
<seb128> LaserJock, right, because shotwell has a viewer mode, banshee doesn't
<fagan> seb128: actually it kinda does
<fagan> it doesnt import it into the library when it plays a movie
<seb128> still it start your manager software
<seb128> which will start autosyncing things etc
<fagan> seb128: it wouldnt be too hard to make a mode that turns that stuff off when it plays a video
<seb128> totem does youtube and bbc playing too
<seb128> + subtitles in movies
<seb128> + dvd
<seb128> + video cds
<fagan> the bbc plugin is broken
<seb128> no it's not
<fagan> the bbc block it now
<seb128> no they don't
<seb128> fagan, I'm playing some bbc content right now there
<rickspencer3> seb128, is there a shotwell specific blueprint?
<seb128> rickspencer3, not that I know about, would be good to have though
<fagan> Oh yeah now I know what was blocked it was unofficial apps that used it
<rickspencer3> seb128, ok, I'll make it, thoughts on assignee?
<rickspencer3> oh, never mind
<seb128> fagan, anyway banshee is not a video player, it doesn't subtitles, tracks, dvds, etc
<rickspencer3> we already discussed that :/
<seb128> rickspencer3, robert_ancell? ;-)
<LaserJock> so the primary reason for rhythmbox -> banshee for UNE is that banshee has/will have a netbook-friendly skin
<LaserJock> ?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> we will try the netbook ui
<LaserJock> cool
<seb128> switching depends on whether it's really better or not
<fagan> seb128: I get that. I just thought that its a lot easier than including two but I suppose if there is functionality regressions we cant.
<seb128> fagan, those are different softwares with different goals
<fagan> true
<LaserJock> is the zoho thing supposed to replace OO.o or maybe just be more pushed towards?
<fagan> LaserJock: have you ever waited for OO.o to open on a netbook ? :)
<seb128> LaserJock, not replace it by default no
<fagan> it takes a while
<seb128> LaserJock, but it's a valid alternative you might want to use
<LaserJock> so what does that say for our "one app for each task" motto?
<LaserJock> are we wanting to provide both local and web apps for UNE where possible?
<didrocks> LaserJock: well, the use case is really different between local and web apps, I think it's still valid for the featured apps
<LaserJock> I would think the use case would be basically the same, "I want to work/share docs"
<didrocks> you still can't work in the plane or in the train if you use web apps
<LaserJock> no?
<LaserJock> I thought that's what offline modes were for :-)
<LaserJock> ala google gears
<didrocks> google gears isn't supported anymore IIRC
<didrocks> but a replacement will come
<fagan> it isnt didrocks
<didrocks> (not sure about that, but just something I heard)
<fagan> didrocks: the replacement is html5
<fagan> its all in the html5 spec for the gears replacement
<LaserJock> right, I'm just saying most web apps I use have some sort of offline mode
<LaserJock> certainly not all though, for sure
<LaserJock> so is offline/online a use case distinction for UNE, or Ubuntu in general?
<LaserJock> this is some of the confusing bit about shipping webapp clients
<didrocks> hum, maybe hilight them on featured apps in a special case, I don't have any idea right now TBH and more paperwork to doâ¦ :)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: is there a way to ask to the ubuntuone syncdaemon (or other or reading desktopcouch) to know if the current computer is associated with ubuntuone and retreive the name associated to it?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes, let me find it
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, hey... question about json-glib, do you know if there is an easy way to read in json and dump it into a hash or something?
 * kenvandine thinks json-glib should provide some data types that are at least similar to how you envision json data :)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, a GHashTable you mean?
<ccheney> fagan: yea about 10s last time I used a netbook :-\
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, something like that
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, i noticed for tracker they basically gave up on json-glib and wrote their own functions for doing it
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, no, it doesn't, it provides types for the json types
<fagan> ccheney: thats faster than ive seen
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, well, should be easy to add that to json-glib
<fagan> ccheney: on my friends on ssd netbook it took an age
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, that is what i was thinking :) it would make way more sense
<rodrigo_> didrocks, see /usr/bin/ubuntuone-client, it gets the info from the u1 server
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, yes
<didrocks> rodrigo_: thanks, I'll have a look there
<kenvandine> i found json-glib rather painful to deal with
<rodrigo_> didrocks, if you have more questions, ask dobey
<kenvandine> converting json to a GList isn't really useful
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, oh, really? I find it quite ok
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ok, I will, thanks
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, i think like a python hacker
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, ah :)
 * kenvandine hugs simplejson
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> json.loads(jsonstring) returns a dict :)
<dobey> que?
<kenvandine> so nice
<ccheney> fagan: hmm maybe netbook ssd are actually slower than netbook hd, not sure, i ran it on a dell mini 10v with hd late last year
<fagan> ccheney: it shouldnt be. The read time is a hell of a lot faster
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, so, you'd like a json_object_new_from_hash/_to_hash, or something like that?
<kenvandine> yeah
<ccheney> fagan: or perhaps the netbook was a pre-atom system that used even slower cpu, not really sure why it would have been so slow, unless OOo has slowed down more since last fall
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, don't you think that makes more sense?
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, for a python hacker, I guess :)
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> :)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, but you'd have to be converting back and forth
<fagan> ccheney: the machine I was testing on was a 1.6ghz atom with 160GB 5400speed HD
<kenvandine> why?
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, shouldn't be slow, so yeah, looks ok
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, just for the parsing case
<ccheney> fagan: ah then OOo must have gotten slower :(
<dobey> kenvandine: why not just write your code in python then? :)
<fagan> ccheney: dont know but I presume when more features are added it gets a little slower
<kenvandine> dobey, cause i am creating libgwibber in C so we can get bindings for other languages
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, cool, and adding introspection?
<kenvandine> yup
<dobey> oh
<rodrigo_> cool!
<seb128> pedro_, hey
<seb128> pedro_, had a nice flight back?
<pedro_> hello seb128!, oh well sort of, flight was good , theperson next to me wasn't :-P
<pedro_> seb128, how's everything going for you?
<seb128> oh? what happened?
<seb128> pedro_, good thanks
<seb128> pedro_, we could use some confirmation on GNOME sru waiting if you have time this week
<seb128> ie for things like glib, glibmm, etc
<seb128> just confirming your lucid still works fine since you are running those
<pedro_> seb128, I'm planning on review sru items by tomorrow , I've installed the libraries already to at least test them for a day or so
<pedro_> seb128, yeap will do ;-)
<seb128> pedro_, thanks
<pedro_> my pleasure ;-)
<ccheney> heads up wrt bug 525807 it seems compiz is causing problems for various other apps other than just OOo, apparently totem, wine, and possibly other apps have same issue
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 525807 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "[upstream] [3.2.1] OOo Slideshow and Fullscreen modes - not full screen under compiz (affects: 60) (dups: 3) (heat: 326)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525807
<ccheney> compiz and OOo upstream are working together to try to get this fixed asap for it, not sure about the other projects
<seb128> re
<seb128> ccheney, is the issue a compiz one?
<ccheney> seb128: its an issue of compiz dropping a workaround that apparently several apps didn't realize they were using, so now those apps don't work correctly
<seb128> ccheney, seems easy to add the workaround back?
<ccheney> seb128: apparently the workaround itself can cause issues so upstream compiz doesn't want to add it back, it would probably be easy enough for lucid though
<ccheney> seb128: at least long term compiz devs want to apps to fix their issues
<ccheney> i believe the OOo issue will at least be fixed for Gnome with 3.2.1 but apparently maybe not for KDE, at least without reverting the compiz change for now
<seb128> what sort of issues would it create in lucid?
<ccheney> upstream OOo is planning on fixing it completely for 3.3 (Ubuntu 11.04)
<ccheney> seb128: i'm not sure one of the compiz developers is on the thread, he could probably tell you better than i could
<ccheney> i doubt there would be any regressions at least since it was previously doing the workaround
<ccheney> seb128: apparently it may cause a problem with totem but what that problem was not disclosed on the OOo bug report by Amaranth
<ccheney> Amaranth: ping see seb128 ^ :)
<Amaranth> Right, our workaround doesn't work as well as the totem one
<Amaranth> So some apps that just want to start maximized instead get started fullscreen
<Amaranth> For totem this makes it show the regular UI and the fullscreen UI at the same time and it gets rather confused
<Amaranth> err, as well as the metacity one
<seb128> Amaranth, can you summarize the issue, the workaround and the fix for applications we need to do?
<seb128> Amaranth, is the bug a compiz one or one in different softwares?
<seb128> ups
<Amaranth> In the past apps that wanted to go fullscreen would just position themselves to 0,0 and resize the window to the size of the screen. Compiz and metacity prevent them from doing this as they aren't allowed to cover the panels. Metacity has a workaround to detect apps trying the old way and mark them as fullscreen. We tried to port that workaround but it doesn't work as well.
<Amaranth> Well, the problem is it works too well.
<Amaranth> So sometimes if you were watching a video in totem and had it maximized or fullscreen when you quit totem tries to start again maximized and compiz interprets this as a legacy app trying to go fullscreen.
<Amaranth> This happens randomly with other apps but totem seems to be the worst
<seb128> hum ok
<seb128> so openoffice and some others don't do fullscreen switching as they should?
<Amaranth> Mainly openoffice and WINE
<seb128> do we known which ones are in this case in a standard installation?
<seb128> ccheney suggested that totem and others are buggy too before?
<Amaranth> Other apps either do it right or are too old/unused to really matter.
<Amaranth> totem isn't buggy, the bug is in the workaround in compiz which is why we disabled it
<ccheney> Amaranth: if i understood what was said in the bug report apparently totem still has issues and wine too?
<ccheney> Amaranth: or were those the ones that didn't work before the workaround was disabled?
<Amaranth> Totem has issues if we enable the workaround. WINE and OOo have issues if we don't enable it.
<ccheney> eg https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/525807/comments/40
<seb128> ok, so summary from Amaranth suggests oo.o are wine are buggy
<seb128> ok, let's fix openoffice then
<seb128> wine too if somebody wants to work on it
<ccheney> Amaranth: did i misunderstand comment 40?
<seb128> seems if we don't have ton of buggy softwares it's the best way
<Amaranth> WINE may never do it properly unless they move the workaround in to WINE itself as on Windows apps still go fullscreen by moving to 0,0 and resizing to fill the screen
<seb128> could we special case wine in compiz?
<Amaranth> OOo will go fullscreen properly in 3.2.1 when using the GTK+ backend
<ccheney> and 3.2.1 will be in 10.04.1
<seb128> ok
<seb128> seems we are good then
<seb128> thanks Amaranth, ccheney
<ccheney> np :)
<Amaranth> I'm not sure we could, I don't know how WINE marks its windows
<Amaranth> I believe it sticks the Windows app title in WM_NAME at least instead of just "wine"
<seb128> ok
<Amaranth> btw, I hope to have some compiz 0.9 packages by the end of the week
<seb128> oh nice
<seb128> does compiz 0.9 bring anything nice out of being a rewrite?
<Amaranth> seb128: Yes, automatic handling of max texture size limitations
<Amaranth> seb128: So no more dealing with that junk
<Amaranth> seb128: And (once plugins are written/ported to handle it properly) the ability to run without any compositing at all.
<ccheney> WIN!
<seb128> how active is the compiz team nowadays?
<Amaranth> You can at least do move, resize, etc without compositing now. Just need something for alt-tab basically
<Amaranth> I think at this point it's mostly just SmSpillaz doing active development
<ccheney> Amaranth: so compiz would work well inside VMs at that point, i think?
<Amaranth> ccheney: Sure, just no compositing
<ccheney> ok
<Amaranth> It's also possible to do XRender compositing too but someone needs to write the plugin
<seb128> jcastro, hey
<seb128> jcastro, had a good flight back?
<seb128> jcastro, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-m-app-indicator your formatting is wrong
<seb128> jcastro, you need to start with "Work items:"
<seb128> jcastro, also I'm not sure [] works, just put nothing and it will default to the spec assignee for those
<seb128> jcastro, also is the banshee item still revelant or should it be dropped in favor of the new indicator sound?
<jcastro> ah ok
<jcastro> I can fix that up
<jcastro> and update the banshee one to reflect sound indicator
<seb128> jcastro, thanks
<jcastro> ok so we can put notes and stuff up top, and then do "Work items:"?
<seb128> pitti, danke for doing some SRU work ;-)
<seb128> jcastro, yes, work items start on "Work items:" and end on empty line
<seb128> jcastro, you can put whatever you want before or after those
<pitti> seb128: it needs some catchup..
<pitti> seb128: I rejected your older gtk upload, keeping the newer one
<seb128> pitti, oh thanks, I was going to do that before and got sidetracked
<seb128> pitti, I will try to do some pinging around for SRUs tomorrow, with some luck I might get other people to review those and help you to get them to stick less to you over time ;-)
<pitti> \o/
<seb128> pitti, btw dunno if you saw my ping yesterday but please write something on robert-ancell wikipage for main uploads ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I saw, will do (I have it open in the browser)
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> will be good to have him on the "upload" side rather than on the "need sponsoring" one ;-)
<seb128> then we just need to push chrisccoulson a bit harder to apply too
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<chrisccoulson> i created my wiki page today, but i've not filled much of it in yet
<seb128> \o/
<chrisccoulson> only my name ;)
<seb128> I guess it's a good start!
<didrocks> seb128: got the banshee netbook ui working before going off for tonight. No "import your music" dialog by default though :/
<jcastro> speaking of, didrocks, do I have any work items wrt. banshee/UNE?
<jcastro> what was the plan with that?
<seb128> didrocks, how does it look like?
<didrocks> jcastro: just those on https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-une-app-selection
<didrocks> can do a screenshot, one sec
<pitti> good night everyone!
<seb128> didrocks, you are impressive this week ;-)
 * seb128 hugs didrocks
<didrocks> good night pitti
 * didrocks hugs seb128
<seb128> 'night pitti
 * pitti hugs everyone
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * didrocks hugs pitti
<tremolux> 'night pitti!
<didrocks> so, first launch of the netbook ui: http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/banshee/netbook-ui-first-launch.png
<didrocks> then, if you click to the button to switch to classical ui and switch back: http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/banshee/netbook-ui-library.png
<seb128> nice
<didrocks> the first launch is an empty panel, not optimal, but we will figure it out
<Laney> we'll probably upload 1.7.0 with the meego interface enabled soon fyi
<didrocks> Laney: sweet
<Laney> hyperair: ^^^^^^^
<bl8> Laney: the compilation error we saw together should be fixed now in banshee git master
<didrocks> Laney: is there any changes to the netbook interface in 1.7.0?
<Laney> didrocks: not sure, build it from debian and have a look if you like
<Laney> or upstream of course
<Laney> bl8: cool, shall cherry pick (or just wait for 171 if it's imminent?)
<bl8> didrocks: you can "touch /etc/meego-release" for additional MeeGo specific customizations
<didrocks> Laney: will you update soon into maverick? otherwise, I can just have a quick upload for enabling it in the current version
<didrocks> bl8: is there a documentation about bits that I can put in?
<Laney> didrocks: I have to port the f-spot patches but after that
<bl8> Laney: Banshee 1.7.1 should be out in a week or so : http://banshee-project.org/about/calendar/
<didrocks> ok, I'll let on you Laney so for enabling that into maverick :)
<Laney> awesome
<didrocks> bl8: if you have tips and tricks on how to costumize the interface, I'm interested in any pointers
<bl8> didrocks: the code just checks if that file is there, and if yes some stuff is changed here and there. Mostly UI from what I can see
<didrocks> oh, let me see
<didrocks> bl8: ok, I see, I was first thinking it was something we can control easily with parameters
 * didrocks waves goodnight
<rickspencer3> night didrocks
<rickspencer3> bon nuit
<rickspencer3> coffee time for me
<rickspencer3> tremolux, hiya
<tremolux> rickspencer3: hey Rick, what's up?
<Amaranth> hrm, I can't seem to get dpkg-buildpackage to make this compiz package non-native...
<Laney> there's usually some output indicating what happened
<Amaranth> well, it says the directory compiz-0.8.99 doesn't match compiz-0.8.99+gitblahblahblah
<rickspencer3> tremolux, just checking in
<rickspencer3> do you know what you need to do this week?
<tremolux> rickspencer3: yep, work items  :)
<tremolux> rickspencer3: btw, did you get my status report yesterday?
<rickspencer3> tremolux, sweet
<rickspencer3> tremolux, I did
<tremolux> rickspencer3: ok cool
<rickspencer3> we usually stick those on the wiki for our team meetings
<rickspencer3> but we didn't have one today, so cool that you sent it
<tremolux> rickspencer3: sounds good
<tremolux> rickspencer3: yeah, I actually looked for the wiki but didn't see it
 * tremolux just realized I prolly should have cc'd seb128
<mvo> hey Amaranth and Laney
<Amaranth> hey mvo
<Amaranth> arg still it won't build a .diff.gz
<Amaranth>  dpkg-source -b compiz-0.8.99+git20100518+54deec1
<Amaranth> dpkg-source: info: using source format `1.0'
<Amaranth> dpkg-source: info: building compiz in compiz_0.8.99+git20100518+54deec1-0ubuntu1.tar.gz
<Amaranth> but I already have a compiz_0.8.99+git20100518+54deec1.orig.tar.bz2
<Amaranth> I've never had it give me this much trouble before
<Laney> hiya mvo
<Amaranth> oh, it doesn't like the bz2
<Laney> never tried it with bz2 before
<Laney> but source format 3.0 supports it so it should work
<Laney> (if you're using 3.0 of couse)
<Amaranth> I guess I should look in to how 3.0 (quilt) works, seeing how we're using quilt for compiz patches
<Amaranth> wait, I can just modify the source and build and it'll update the patches? that can't be how this works...
<Laney> it's not
<Amaranth> oh, I see
<Amaranth> I keep using quilt to manage patches during development but dpkg-source applies them at build time instead of quilt
<Amaranth> eh, why not
<Amaranth> yay it builds
<ccheney> Amaranth: 3.0 is very nice once you get used to how it works
<Amaranth> There, now all the patches I've ported to 0.9 also have proper DEP-3 tags
<Amaranth> Just need to port a couple more patches and I'll have core packaged completely
<Amaranth> ccheney: So far the main gotcha is that it automatically applies the patches when extracting the source and doesn't remove them when cleaning
<ccheney> Amaranth: yea you can use a flag to avoid the unpack if you want, but it doesn't remove them on cleaning thats true
<ccheney> Amaranth: you can use quilt pop to do that though
<ccheney> Amaranth: er not unpack, to avoid applying the patches i mean
<Amaranth> yeah, I just have to remember to quilt pop -a
<ccheney> yea
<ccheney> i'm still getting used to it on OOo, but it is much easier to deal with packaging with it along with multiple source file support
<ccheney> OOo has around 5 source tarballs now, heh
<TheMuso`> Good morning.
<RAOF> Good morning
<TheMuso`> RAOF: How are you feeling this morning? Somewhat less tired? :)
<RAOF> Yup.  And less sick, to boot!
<RAOF> Hows about you?
<TheMuso`> Much better thanks. I had a bit of a headache, and got hot/cold flushes yesterday, and have developed a cough. Everything but the cough has gone.
<TheMuso`> DIdn't help that I didn't sleep well Monday night, which probably helped trigger most of this.
<TheMuso`> At least a panadol put a cap on the headache.
<crimx> nautilus removing the location text/button switch button is crap.. having to ctrl-l/esc to toggle it is annoying! they should put the button back!
<rickspencer3> Hi RAOF, TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey rickspencer3.
<RAOF> rickspencer3: Good morning
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-19
<rickspencer3> how were your trips home?
<rickspencer3> uneventful, I hope?
<TheMuso> Uneventful and long
<RAOF> Yup.
<rickspencer3> good news that
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: However I managed to get a little unwell as a result, but I'm mostly over it now.
<rickspencer3> :/
<rickspencer3> lots of folks sick
<rickspencer3> no Eastern Edition today, obviously
<TheMuso> Yep
<rickspencer3> RAOF, TheMuso do you guys know what to do wrt blueprints and WIs?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: When you are in an incubator for 20 odd hours, its not hard to get something...
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, right, especially after a long week of hard work
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Yes.
<RAOF> rickspencer3: I believe so.
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Re blueprints and work items, well aware of what has to happen.
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, sweet
<crimsun> WRT audio, I've got the two kernel config items filed as bugs and linked to the maverick review spec
<crimsun> leann's going to affect those changes. I've also got ossp packaged and will be testing with a (recompiled) kernel locally to document some further changes.
<crimsun> s/affect/effect/
<crimsun> I'm working with Jon and a few others on the Qt/Phonon bits for Kubuntu.
<TheMuso> cool
<TheMuso> crimsun: Let me know if there is anything I can do with that to help.
<TheMuso> crimsun: And I have begun merging/updating the ALSA stack for maverick.
<crimsun> TheMuso: great, thanks
<hyperair> Laney: meego interface? you mean moblin integration?
<rickspencer3> hi robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hey
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, welcome home!
<rickspencer3> I hope you had an easy enough trip home
<robert_ancell> home = #ubuntu-desktop? :)
<robert_ancell> yup not too bad, seemed to avoid jetlag this time
<rickspencer3> nice
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I suppose you saw that we asked you to handle the Yorba/Ubuntu connection?
<robert_ancell> not yet, but I'm happy to do that
<rickspencer3> sweet
<rickspencer3> they already love you, so it seemed like a good connection
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hmm, did I just miss a meeting?
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, no, we cancelled this week
<rickspencer3> but will meet on Friday (for you guys) to discuss BPs and WIs
 * rickspencer3 whip cracking noises
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, ow
<rickspencer3> hehe
<rickspencer3> I just made the noises :)
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, do you have enough data to calculate your work item throughput
<rickspencer3> ?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I don't think I do, at least not from Lucid
<robert_ancell> and I'm don't think we tracked enough stuff in Jaunty to get the data from there
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> well, I guess just go with a gut feel?
<rickspencer3> or use other people
<rickspencer3> s estimates as a basis?
<robert_ancell> I'm going with gut feel at the moment - do you have a rough estimate for the team?
<rickspencer3> not yet
<rickspencer3> should have tomorrow though
<rickspencer3> maybe have everyone put their estimates on the wiki
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, RAOF, TheMuso, time for me to step away
<rickspencer3> do you guys need anything before I log off?
<RAOF> I'm good.
<rickspencer3> sweet
<robert_ancell> nothing at the moment, have a good evening
<rickspencer3> RAOF, any feedback about my announcement that we are bumping 8xx users down to VESA?
<rickspencer3> anyone bitch, etc...?
<rickspencer3> uh, I guess I should say "complain"
<RAOF> Not that I've seen yet.
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: nothing from me.
<rickspencer3> excuse my French
<rickspencer3> RAOF, cool
<rickspencer3> what blueprint will that go on?
<RAOF> General Maverick Xorg plans.
<rickspencer3> sweet
<rickspencer3> 'night guys!
<robert_ancell> RAOF, hey, do you know who maintains libx11?  I need to bump some versions for GTK+
<robert_ancell> actually make that libxi, libxcursor and libxinerama
<RAOF> robert_ancell: cjwatson just merged libx11 from Debian; is that version not sufficient?
<RAOF> The answer would be âUbuntu X swatâ in Ubuntu, but they tend to get pulled unchanged from Debian-X.
<RAOF> robert_ancell: What versions do you need?
<robert_ancell> the debian subversion for libxi-dev libxcursor-dev and libxinerama-dev
<robert_ancell> not sure why gtk has such tight dependencies
<robert_ancell> RAOF, so specifically libxi-dev 1.3-4, libxcursor-dev 1.1.10-2 libxinerama-dev 1.1-3
<RAOF> Oh, the autosync is broken at the moment, isn't it?
<RAOF> Which is why they haven't migrated automatically.
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Ah, you need the -udebs for GTK, I take it?  All those are syncs, but I don't have upload privs for them.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, yeah, something like that.  What are the udebs for?
<RAOF> I think d-i's graphical installer stopped fighting with gtk-on-framebuffer, and succumbed to X.
<robert_ancell> yeah, seb said they did that.  This GTK+ package drops support for fb
<mclasen> sounds like a win-win to me
<robert_ancell> RAOF, so do you expect the sync to work by tomorrow or should I poke someone to get that to work?
<robert_ancell> mclasen, :)
<RAOF> robert_ancell: I think the problem that the debian archive is currently broken, thus breaking launchpad's debian import, thus breaking autosync.  I don't think that'll be fixed by tomorrow.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, hmm, ok guess I'll have to shelve that update
<RAOF> I we should be able to manually sync, though.
<RAOF> Ahem.  I *think* we should be able to manually sync.  If nothing else, by grabbing the debian source, signing it, and uploading.
<robert_ancell> hmm, I don't have core upload privileges though. Do you?
<RAOF> No.  Otherwise, I'd have done it for you already :)
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, ^ can/should you upload X stuff?
<ajmitch> RAOF: you should apply soon then :)
<RAOF> ajmitch: Yes :)
 * ajmitch can upload X stuff, but most likely shouldn't
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: What needs uploading/updating?
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, libxi, libxcursor, libxinerama - they just need syncing so I can sync gtk
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Could you request syncs and subscribe ubuntu sponsors?
<TheMuso> someone will get to acking them
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, RAOF said they're normally automatic, but something has broken the autosync
<RAOF> We don't have any Ubuntu changes to these packages, no.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Yes so if you want to get them manually synced, they need to be requested.
<ajmitch> something being a broken apt-ftp-archive on ftp.debian.org, afaik LP being fixed is still blocked on that
<RAOF> I can file the sync requests if you like.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, please, if you know how to do them
<Amaranth> isn't there a tool for that?
<Amaranth> requestsync
<TheMuso> yeah in ubuntu-dev-tools
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Ah, it looks like they've been syncd, they're just waiting in NEW.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, ah, thanks
<didrocks> good morning
<fagan> morning didrocks
<RAOF> Morning didrocks, fagan.
<fagan> morning RAOF
<didrocks> morning fagan, RAOF
<didrocks> RAOF: how your jetlag is going?
<RAOF> didrocks: Much better.  Now it's just a niggling sore throat :)
<didrocks> :)
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> bonjour pitti, comment Ã§a va ?
<pitti> c'est bien, merci! et toi?
<didrocks> Gut, Danke SchÃ¶ne
<seb128> hey there
<pitti> bonojur seb128
<seb128> hey pitti
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> seb128: FYI, I just finished my comment on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertAncell/CoreDevApplication :)
<seb128> pitti, good, thank you ;-)
<didrocks> I'm fine and rested thanks! and you?
<pitti> "Never ever let him near the archive!!"
<pitti> j/k, gets high time for him
<seb128> lol
<seb128> didrocks, I'm good thanks, I had a good night
<didrocks> I think we can remove games from maverick! evolution 2.30 is so fun by itself (moving the cursor on the treeview hide/show icons) :)
<pitti> lol
<pitti> fully understanding evolution is quite hard, after all; took mankind a couple of centuries :)
<didrocks> heh :)
<fagan> hmmm im on maverick and the evo data store stuff hasnt upgraded yet
<didrocks> yeah, an archive admin has to accept the libevolution new binary package
<seb128> didrocks, looking at it
<didrocks> seb128: thanks
<seb128> hum
<seb128> bug #581799 is weird
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 581799 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "Lot of dbus errors (affects: 1)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581799
<seb128> "org.freedesktop.DBus: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NameHasNoOwner: Could not get UID of name ':1.56916': no such name"
<seb128> "invoking List() failed for type GProxyVolumeMonitorGdu: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.No Reply: Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus" too
<seb128> seems he is having dbus issues...
<seb128> mvo, you need a ":" on work item lines
<mvo> seb128: ok, I though it would automatically put a "todo" if its missing
<seb128> mvo, no, it does that if there is nothing after ":"
<seb128> but you need the ":"
<mvo> thanks seb128
<mvo> seb128: should I fix it now or did you fix it already?
<seb128> mvo, I didn't yet, please do if you want otherwise I will do it
<mvo> seb128: I need to go to lunch now, I can fix it afterwards
<seb128> mvo, enjoy
<seb128> mvo, in fact it might not be required, I'm being confused now, it seems to work fine without those
<seb128> mvo, so ignore me
<mvo> ok
 * mvo waves
<Laney> hyperair: I mean --enable-meego
<hyperair> Laney: hmm is it getting stable anytime soon? afaik it's --disabled now since it's marked unstable upstream
<Laney> It's good enough to use, and these are dev releases anyway
<Laney> can switch off for stable if we need to
<didrocks> hyperair: in any case, we want to give it a try for netbook, at least for alpha2
<hyperair> didrocks: i see. interesting.
<hyperair> Laney: 1.7.0 is in experimental, so i think we can --enable it there and sync over?
<hyperair> or should we just --enable it in ubuntu only?
<Laney> I was thinking enable it for 1.7.1 and then sync
<hyperair> hmm sounds fine.
<Laney> it requires some cherry picks for 1.7.0
<hyperair> i see.
<didrocks> I've just played with it locally, but rather with limited tests
 * hyperair needs to get around to packaging 1.6.1
<Laney> and the new podsleuth yeah?
<Laney> :cool:
<hyperair> o yeah, there was a new podsleuth
<hyperair> @_@
<seb128> didrocks, http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/cd_ubuntu-fr
<seb128> ca devrait pas Ãªtre mis Ã  jour?
<didrocks> seb128: si, je vais de ce pas fouetter ces feignants de contributeur du wiki :)
<didrocks> merci!
<seb128> didrocks, 'ci ;-)
<pitti> rickspencer3: good morning
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<didrocks> good morning rickspencer3
<fagan> morning rickspencer3
<seb128> hello rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> Hi didrocks, fagan, seb128
<rickspencer3> hope all is well today
<fagan> Very well :)
<seb128> mvo, there is a webit 1.2.1, do you plan to sru it for lucid?
<mvo> seb128: I have no plans for this
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> mvo: I've written a prototype using heavily "set()", but the code is quite ugly if we take into account the parameters changes and I prefer to rewrite wrapping a class for packages. FYI, recording 1700 entries in desktopcouch takes ~1min on my machine which is not a really fast one
<mvo> didrocks: aha, cool - where is the code?
<mvo> didrocks: 1min is really not great, is that a desktopcouch limitation
<mvo> ?
<didrocks> mvo: I'll finish the with set() version and will push it later. Concerning the 1 min for this record, I'm in a loop just creating new records (one per package). I think this is linked with desktopcouch performance
<didrocks> mvo: this is only for the first iteration, but I can maybe optimize it, let me check
<mvo> didrocks: ok, I don't mind looking at it even if half-finished, just let me know where it is
<didrocks> mvo: pushing it in a bit, I have maybe an idea for this performance, need some testing. I'll ping you
<rickspencer3> seb128, any reason that robert shouldn't go ahead and upload his fix for bug #445123 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 445123 in gdm (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 4 other projects) "No GUI option to disable face browser (affects: 26) (dups: 5) (heat: 168)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445123
<seb128> rickspencer3, not at all
<rickspencer3> ok
<seb128> rickspencer3, don't bother arguing with trolls ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, I know, I won't follow up
<rickspencer3> I just needed to make my POV clear, especially as we are fixing it
<rickspencer3> !
<desrt>  1843 desrt     20   0 10.1g 9.7g 3320 R  101 82.8 765:50.11 indicator-apple
<desrt> :(
<desrt> 10 gigs of ram is just too much
<chrisccoulson> desrt - we don't want to let good ram go to waste ;)
<chrisccoulson> that's pretty extreme though, i've never seen it do that before
<kenvandine> desrt, wow... that is impressive!
<LaserJock> was there discussion at UDS about the gconf issues with various UNE sessions?
<didrocks> LaserJock: in the default GNOME apps one, we talked about that along with gsettings
<didrocks> LaserJock: sorry, not GNOME app, but rather GNOME components where we seek for what to update in maverick (on Monday morning IIRC)
<seb128> didrocks, you have 3 specs for this cycle? or do I miss some on my list?
<seb128> ie oneconf, une application selection, quickly
<didrocks> seb128: it's correct
<seb128> TheMuso, should desktop-maverick-opentts-to-replace-speech-dispatcher be targetted for this cycle?
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, is desktop-maverick-connman superseded by some other specs or handled somewhere else?
<didrocks> seb128: I guess that's the one where the gobby document was lost, let me check
<didrocks> I guess it finally turned more as a dx blueprint, so I'll change the assignee and I guess kenvandine will have the WI for the indicator stuff
<seb128> didrocks, well we need a spec on our side to track connman work, there will be quite some desktop tasks
<seb128> didrocks, if those are tracked in an another spec that's fine too
<seb128> didrocks, could you check with davidbarth?
<didrocks> seb128: yes, but that's more on kenvandine plate or mine?
<didrocks> seb128: sure, already asked, waiting for reply :)
<seb128> indicator is kenvandine
<seb128> connman itself is chrisccoulson I guess
<kenvandine> conman would be chrisccoulson?
<seb128> kenvandine, yes
 * chrisccoulson hides
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, sorry ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<didrocks> ok, I can assign the blueprint to chriscoulson so, and I'll update the WI with chrisccoulson and davidbarth
<kenvandine> put my name next to the indicator stuff
<seb128> didrocks, thanks, or check if dbarth already track those in a dx blueprint
<didrocks> seb128: I will
<seb128> didrocks, 'ci
<didrocks> seb128: thanks to you to do all the tedious job of tracking those :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, don't forget to define your work items for tomorrow
<seb128> none of your specs are showing up yet on the tracker ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'll do those tonight
<seb128> thanks
<LaserJock> didrocks: so will Unity use gsettings?
<didrocks> LaserJock: no, we even don't have gsettings yet on maverick
<LaserJock> so for maverick we will likely still have a mess of gconf settings
<LaserJock> if non-Unity continues we can likely have GNOME, non-Unity, and Unity sessions
<seb128> didrocks, we do
<seb128> didrocks, we have glib 2.25
<didrocks> seb128: oh, the new glib and dconf has been pushed already?
<didrocks> sweet
<seb128> dconf not yet
<seb128> gsettings yes
<didrocks> ok, so no storage right now :)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> didrocks: do you know if unity is going to reuse the "une" namespace or use "unity"?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I've assigned the spec to you, dbarth suggests to only list there the integration WI (desktop-maverick-connman). kenvandine: you should also put the WI for indicators related work there too, I guess
<davidbarth> pitti: ping? could you give your burn down chart cron job a kick before our DX call, please?
<LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out what's going to need to be changed so that unity and non-unity don't crash
<pitti> davidbarth: running
<didrocks> LaserJock: I think we will use "une" one as it's Ubuntu Netbook Edition
<didrocks> LaserJock: will be easy, I'll be able to give you an hand once I will push unity into maverick (next week I guess)
<LaserJock> what's the plan for the -settings package name?
<LaserJock> the one in the PPA is pretty long :-)
<LaserJock> if I could figure out a name for "not Unity" we could transition to that :-)
<didrocks> LaserJock: nothing decided yet, but it will replace it and we will move the other with netbook-launcher to another name (not very worried, just need to coordinate), but I prefer a more quiet time to discuss that, next week sounds fine for me
<davidbarth> pitti: thanks!
<didrocks> LaserJock: heh, I will try to get a name this week-end, think about it too ;)
<LaserJock> didrocks: maybe it should be Anarchy ;-)
<didrocks> excellent ^^
<LaserJock> didrocks: Diversity would also be a slightly less militant version :-)
<kenvandine> didrocks: ok, thx
<didrocks> LaserJock: interesting idea, not really descriptive for netbook-launcher, but yeah :-)
<didrocks> LaserJock: we'll figure out I guess
<didrocks> it'll just take time
<LaserJock> didrocks: well, the idea would be to pull together netbook-launcher, liblauncher, go-home-applet, and window-picker-applet I think since that is the core of the UI, right?
 * kenvandine -> lunch
<didrocks> LaserJock: and webfav, but yes, that's it
<didrocks> kenvandine: enjoy
<seb128> pitti, thanks for the "Errors in work item definitions"
<rodrigo_> hmm, can't get update-manager -d to upgrade to maverick, is it supposed to work?
<fagan> rodrigo_: just edit the sources file
<rodrigo_> fagan, s/lucid/maverick you mean?
<fagan> rodrigo_: yep
<seb128> rodrigo_, check with mvo but I think it's too early, update-manager didn't get updated for that yet
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, you can dist-upgrade using apt-get though
<rodrigo_> seb128, and is it "safe" to upgrade, or should I wait?
<seb128> depends of what you call safe, I guess you have been running unstable versions of distro before?
<seb128> things might and will break on the way
<fagan> rodrigo_: theres nothing broken at the moment from what I can see except evolution
<seb128> especially that early when we resync some thousand packages on debian
<rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, I mean if it boots, that's enough, I can deal with other problems
<fagan> im on 10.10 at the moment
<seb128> fagan, how is it broken?
<fagan> seb128: it needs libevo
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, so go for it ;-)
<rodrigo_> oh, wanted to test evo-couchdb with evolution
<fagan> seb128: its stuck between an upgrade
<seb128> fagan, which has been newed hours ago and should be available now?
 * fagan checks
<fagan> seb128: still not upgrading it
<seb128> what error?
<fagan> Oh I just had to run it in terminal
<fagan> the dist-upgrade tool wasnt working for some reason
<seb128> fagan, which means it's working now?
<fagan> seb128: its upgrading yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, it should be working, let me know how the upgrade goes for you
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<rodrigo_> 669mb of updates, /me presses ENTER :)
 * fagan restarts
<didrocks> rodrigo_: and that's when the pain beginsâ¦ ;)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, well, I've kept my workstation on lucid, so no problem :D
<fagan> seb128: the buttons are a little out of wack in evolution http://twitpic.com/1p5yym
<seb128> fagan, could be, I'm not running maverick yet and I don't care about bugs so early as long as the softwares runs, you could perhaps open an upstream bug about it though?
<fagan> or combo boxes I mean
<seb128> we don't have the ressources to deal with small bugs so early in the cycle
<seb128> we focus on specs writting and merges for now
<fagan> ill look into it myself
<fagan> its just something small
<seb128> if you decide to run crack versions it's good but please feedback to upstream when you can
<fagan> yep will do
<fagan> I do test early for every release
<seb128> cool, we need early testers ;-)
<pitti> seb128: heh, "thanks for spamming me"? :-)
<seb128> pitti, lol, yes, the mail content is useful ;-)
<seb128> pitti, cjwatson did SRU reviewing btw
<pitti> I saw, yes; good
<didrocks> dobey: from what I see, you can't now the current computer name as described in ubuntu one without connecting remotely (the information isn't stored locally), do you have a code snippet to have the limited amount of code so that I can retreive this info?
<seb128> rickspencer3, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-python-telepathy
<seb128> rickspencer3, do you want to track this one for maverick? it needs an assignee if you do and work items
<kenvandine> seb128, did you see https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-ubuntu-one-api
<seb128> kenvandine, now I did
<kenvandine> rickspencer3 had said we wouldn't target any milestones for it but add work items and see what people could jump in and do
<kenvandine> basically all targets of opportunity :)
<seb128> kenvandine, do you want me to do anything special with it?
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> i guess we should accept it right?
<kenvandine> and just not target milestones, so anything we get is a win
<kenvandine> not sure who to assign it to... i guess me :)
<seb128> hum
<seb128> you mean define the serie goal?
<kenvandine> what ever you think is best
<kenvandine> yeah...
<seb128> it would make it listed on http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html
<kenvandine> hum
<kenvandine> ok... maybe not
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, opinions?
<kenvandine> i think rickspencer3 wanted the blueprint so we could track the work, but not have a strong commitment to doing it
<seb128> ok, so it seems desktop-maverick-ubuntu-one-api is fine in the current state for this
<seb128> desktop-maverick-python-telepathy has a serie goal
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> so it's showing up on the workitems tracker
<kenvandine> cool
<seb128> well, not really since it has no assignee
<kenvandine> i'll assign it to me
<seb128> we should either find somebody who takes responsability for it
<seb128> or drop the serie goal
<seb128> and keep it as a target of opportunity
<seb128> kenvandine, don't overcommit
<kenvandine> since we won't have it on the work items tracker
<kenvandine> i am not committing to doing it
<seb128> you already have the higher work items number for the team right now
<seb128> kenvandine, desktop-maverick-python-telepathy has the serie goal set
<kenvandine> but i think i care the most about it, the idea is we want others to get involved in getting it done
<seb128> it will be on the tracker
<kenvandine> not that one, i was talking about the u1 one
<kenvandine> i don't want desktop-maverick-python-telepathy
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> ok sorry
<kenvandine> sorry for the confusion :)
<seb128> all good for the ubuntu one spec
<seb128> np
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> I will wait on rickspencer3's to comment on the telepathy
<seb128> rickspencer3, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-opportunistic-apps-stable-release
<seb128> too
<seb128> no assignee, no work items... is that superseded by some other specs?
<seb128> or informational?
<seb128> or does somebody needs to get in charge?
<didrocks> kenvandine: ok, so if I get some "get all machine descriptions on ubuntu one" and "get current machine description", that will go into this api?
<kenvandine> didrocks: yes
<kenvandine> so far we only did the publishFile api
<seb128> rickspencer3, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-touch
<seb128> too
<kenvandine> as a proof of concept
<didrocks> I'm just wondering why ubuntu one accept two similar description for different machines, that's not good :/
<dobey> didrocks: not sure what you're trying to do with that info, but no it's not cached locally. it's gotten from the Devices widget code, anad the oauth token is just compared with the local one to get the name
<kenvandine> didrocks: indeed... i have a ton named gordo :)
<dobey> err, to determine if it's the local machine
<kenvandine> which is the name of my laptop
 * kenvandine thinks we should require the description to be unique
<kenvandine> otherwise it isn't really useful
<didrocks> dobey: I'm looking from ubuntuone-preference, seems straightforward. Do you think you will still enable people to get twice the same description for different devices?
<didrocks> (without forcing to remove them before)
<didrocks> kenvandine: yeah, that's quite ackward for my oneconf spec :/
<didrocks> I can store the token as an id for the machine, but we will still have tons of things displayed in software-center
<kenvandine> i should really clean mine up... i have a ton of old ones from early testing
<kenvandine> didrocks: where does it appear in software-center?
<kenvandine> or will it?
<didrocks> kenvandine: not designed yet, mpt will decide :) but having the same name appears more than one isn't good
<didrocks> once*
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> wish i had made it to the oneconf session... damn volcano!
<kenvandine> anyway... so the idea being software-center could help install the same software on multiple machines?
<didrocks> kenvandine: it will be a dropdown in ubiquity, as discussed with michael
<didrocks> (forrest)
<didrocks> kenvandine: yeah, I have a crappy design made with gimp: http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/oneconf/sc.png
<kenvandine> awesome concept!
<didrocks> kenvandine: well, now it's implementation issues ;)
<kenvandine> hehe
<dobey> didrocks: we don't have any method to prevent that, and haven't really thought about how to do so
<rickspencer3> seb128, ack on the blueprint
<rickspencer3> I'
<didrocks> dobey: ok, I will do without it right now. Is it safe to store the token as a way to identify the computer in desktopcouch?
<rickspencer3> ll get it done asap
<pitti> good night everyone
<rickspencer3> 'night pitti
<kenvandine> good night pitti
<didrocks> good night pitti
<seb128> 'night pitti
<seb128> rickspencer3, which one? the 3 I listed?
<rickspencer3> seb128, when you are reviewing blueprints with folks tomorrow, can you remind them about HR stuff? we have reviews, etc... coming up
<seb128> rickspencer3, ok
<rickspencer3> oops, I didn't scroll back
<seb128> rickspencer3, you will not be there for the meeting tomorrow?
<dobey> didrocks: we already store the token in the keyring
<rickspencer3> I'll pick up all 3
<rickspencer3> seb128, I will be there
<seb128> ok, good ;-)
<rickspencer3> but I figure you'll be running it
<seb128> I will but feel free to do HR reminders if you want
<rickspencer3> that was my subtle way of telling everyone to care about the review stuff
<seb128> I can do those as well though ;-)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> sorry to ruing the subtility there
<seb128> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-python-telepathy
<seb128> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-opportunistic-apps-stable-release
<seb128> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-touch
<didrocks> dobey: yes, but I mean, as a way to associate (here packages list) some data to each computer in desktopcouch registered in ubuntu one, so out of the gnome-keyring in that case
<seb128> rickspencer3, ^ summary, those are not tracker as they should right now
<seb128> rickspencer3, we need to decided if we have ressources for those and who or if we should drop them
<rickspencer3> seb128, ack
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, I think the stable release one is probably captured in the software center one
<dobey> didrocks: ah right, we probably need a better way to make that association than an OAuth token then
<rickspencer3> but we need to track getting the pocket created and such somewhere as well
<didrocks> dobey: can we work together on that, what should/could I do in that regard? (maybe moving the discussion into an ubuntuone related channel?)
<dobey> didrocks: perhaps using the uname() value for nodename, and some info from udev?
<dobey> didrocks: at least, all modern x86 machines have a machine id that doesn't change until you change the cpu/motherboard
<didrocks> dobey: right, but I still need to associate with a name for showing to the user in software-center or ubiquity, that's why I was thinking at linking it to the ubuntu one description
<dobey> didrocks: but perhas just the hostname is enough, since i don't know that people naming all their computers the same thing is a corner case we should care about :)
<dobey> didrocks: eh, that description field is a bit of a hack. we really shouldn't allow it to be editable
<didrocks> dobey: well, that's what people see in ubuntuone-preference. We should do the same for onceconf and for it. But if you need some help so that we can find another wayâ¦ Just want to have a common path
<seb128> rickspencer3, right, let's use that one for the infrastructure changes
<rickspencer3> seb128, I think mvo should be assigned to that, and it should rather be on foundations
<rickspencer3> what do you think?
<seb128> rickspencer3, +1
<seb128> rickspencer3, touch, let me read the whiteboard
<rickspencer3> I think it's an OEM services project
<rickspencer3> I pinged bfiller, will discuss later today with him
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I was going to suggest oem or dx
<seb128> I think bratsche_ has some action items for the gtk changes
<dobey> didrocks: yeah, but i think we should change the way that works
<seb128> or at least he said he would have a look
<didrocks> dobey: ok, I'll go with the hostname and get the duplication with uuid.getnode() for now. Will be great if we can synchronise that with devices shown in ubuntu one. Thanks in any case :)
<dobey> didrocks: i won't be working on the client stuff this cycle really. i'm rotating to our operations team. but we should probably have some discussion in #ubuntuone or somewhere about how to improve this experience
<didrocks> dobey: oh ok, I'll try to get that somewhere and then will propose this to #ubuntuone. Thanks a lot!
 * didrocks waves goodnight
<kenvandine> good night didrocks
<rickspencer3> tremolux, hey
<rickspencer3> g'night didrocks
<rickspencer3> bon nuit ;)
<tremolux> rickspencer3: hey Rick!
<tremolux> see ya didrocks
<rickspencer3> tremolux, this ppa is acting really weird for me in software-center
<rickspencer3> ppa:nisshh/ppa
<rickspencer3> could you please check out if it works for you?
<rickspencer3> It seems like I can add it, but I can't get it to show up
<tremolux> rickspencer3: yep
<tremolux> rickspencer3: hmm, ok, I'll try it
<tremolux> rickspencer3: is that the testdrive ppa?
<rickspencer3> no
<rickspencer3> it's something called pytask
<rickspencer3> somebody made it with quickly today
<rickspencer3> I added the PPA with add-apt-repository
<rickspencer3> and apt-get knows about pytask
<rickspencer3> but software-center doesn't seem to
<tremolux> rickspencer3: hmm, it's not showing up for me either  :-/
<rickspencer3> there is a bug somewhere, would be good to know where
<tremolux> rickspencer3: yes, let me dig around to see what's going on
<rickspencer3> tremolux, could it be because of no auth?
<rickspencer3> WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!
<rickspencer3>   pytask
<rickspencer3> I wonder if the lp key server thingy is down or something
<rickspencer3> like the key exchange didn't work?
<tremolux> rickspencer3: it sounds plausible
<rickspencer3> tremolux, I know hardly anything about how this stuff works :/
<rickspencer3> fwiw, I installed it fine with apt-get
<rickspencer3> except for that warning
<tremolux> rickspencer3: yeah, I don't think that auth issue with the package would keep the ppa from showing up
<rickspencer3> what do you think is up?
<tremolux> not sure, that used to happen if you did not do a 'sudo update-apt-xapian-index', but that makes no difference for me
<tremolux> (we've incorporated the apt-xapian-index update in software center anyway)
<rickspencer3> tremolux, could you please log a bug, I guess?
<tremolux> rickspencer3: I'll have to investigate to find out why there would be an issue with one ppa like this (don't think we've got any other reports of such problems)
<tremolux> yep, I will
<tremolux> I'll let you know what I find out
<fta> slomo, hi, /wrt libvpx, how soon is your "soonish"? :)
<slomo> fta: it's waiting in debian NEW and here: https://launchpad.net/~gstreamer-developers/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=lucid
<fta> slomo, great. i need it for chromium
<slomo> fta: ok, if you have any problems feel free to write me an email
<fta> slomo, but as i provide backports down to hardy, i guess it will need some work
<Amaranth> dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libdecoration.so.0 needed by debian/compiz-kde/usr/bin/kde4-window-decorator (ELF format: 'elf64-x86-64'; RPATH: '').
<Amaranth> *headdesk*
<desrt> hmm.  this indicator-applet using 10gigs thing appears to be somehow related to sound
<desrt> when rhythmbox is running the sound indicator is using 100% CPU and that's when indicator-applet is leaking...
<crimsun> desrt: should have spew in /var/log/user.log, then. If it's pulse spewing ratelimit, first check that you don't have an HDA controller for sound (if you do, err, well...). You might want to try linux-alsa-driver-modules-$(uname -r) from ppa:ubuntu-audio-dev if you do.
<crimsun> desrt: namely, the bug there is that the driver incorrectly read one of the ICH registers and so didn't compensate for broken DMA.
<TheMuso> ooo can't wait till we get vp8 support into Ubuntu. :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-20
<desrt> robert_ancell: hey
<robert_ancell> desrt, hey
<desrt> robert_ancell: still interested in dconf-editor? :)
<robert_ancell> desrt, sure
 * RAOF returns a non-wardrobe to Freedom while mesa builds
<desrt> nice
<desrt> going to start making a dconf API for it, then
<desrt> UI question for you:
<robert_ancell> desrt, got step-by-step instructions to getting d-conf to work on Maverick?
<robert_ancell> :)
<desrt> robert_ancell: step 1: wait until seb wakes up
<desrt> robert_ancell: step 2: install some .debs :)
<robert_ancell> nice
<desrt> in seriousness, though... you could download the glib and dconf releases that i made today
<desrt> that's all you need to do
<robert_ancell> how is dconf started? on demand?
<desrt> on first write
<desrt> but unless you have some really fancy setup going on, that's not going to work out at all
<robert_ancell> desrt, you want dconf-editor in the dconf git?
<desrt> it makes sense i guess
<desrt> hmm.
<desrt> ya.  let's do that.
<desrt> so my UI question is this:
<desrt> when you go to edit your user settings
<desrt> should you also see the defaults?
<desrt> or -just- the ones that you explicitly setup for yourself
<desrt> also: how well-integrated should our GSettings support be?
<desrt> i can imagine two different views: one you navigate by tree and the other that you navigate by schema
<robert_ancell> I think you should see the value you would get if you did a read, but it should indicate if that value is the default (and show the default if it is not).  gconf-editor didn't do this well and it was annoying
<robert_ancell> show the default *as well*
<desrt> ya.  i specifically ask because of how bad gconf-editor is here
<desrt> ok.  that means that we will need an API to determine this
<robert_ancell> are the schemas in the same namespace as they were in gconf?
<desrt> no
<desrt> schemas are very much out of band
<desrt> and organised quite differently
<robert_ancell> well, then I would consider a "schema view" but I don't think it's a high priority
<desrt> you will have to open /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/ and parse a bunch of xml
<robert_ancell> np
<desrt> i guess another interesting question is if we should show schema values
<robert_ancell> schema values = default value, limits?
<robert_ancell> name, description
<desrt> so there are several layers
<desrt> as it is, it will be extremely rare for default values to be in dconf
<desrt> unless you have a sysadmin, essentially
<desrt> vendor defaults are handled via the schemas
<TheMuso> 8/c
<mclasen> desrt: you have to parse the schemas anyway, to get at the key docs
<Amaranth> man, compiz is really hating me
<Amaranth> when I build in pbuilder all the schemas are completely empty files
<desrt> mclasen: right... not sure if that information ought to be visibile in the tree view or not...
<desrt> mclasen: since you could go the GSettings view route to get it...
<mclasen> desrt: in my view, a tree of keys without any documentation is pretty useless
<desrt> i agree
<desrt> which is why i think people should use the schema-based view
<desrt> ie: pick your schema, do your changes
<desrt> could almost build it directly on GSettings itself if we add the introspection support you've been asking about :)
<robert_ancell> desrt, any idea what package name seb128 was going to use for dconf?  dconf is already used by another package
 * TheMuso guesses that gnome-dconf would be used. :p
<TheMuso> Orca was in a similar position a few years back. At the time, there was already an package called orca in Debian, so gnome-orca was used.
<RAOF> Who wants to sponsor a mesa upload?
<TheMuso> RAOF: how big an upload is it?
<RAOF> ~30MB
<RAOF> Or big as in changes?
<TheMuso> changes wise
<RAOF> It's a merge from debian, going from 7.7.1 â 7.8.1.  It's pretty big, changes wise.
<TheMuso> ah ok. If you have everything committed to the various branches, just let me know where I need to pull from and I'll have a look.
<RAOF> git.debian.org/git/pkg-xorg/lib/mesa - branch ubuntu.  You'll need to grab Debian's .orig.tar.gz, because it's created from multiple upstream tarballs.
<TheMuso> ok sounds fun.
<TheMuso> Does the MoM archive have that tarball?
<TheMuso> RAOF: and since you are building from git, what command do you use to build the package?
<RAOF> git-buildpackage
<TheMuso> RAOF: any particular arguments I need to use?
<RAOF> Or, rather, git-buildpackage -S
<TheMuso> ok thanks
<RAOF> TheMuso: Hey, have you uploaded mesa yet?  If not, we can drop a couple of packages from it; there's no longer any point in building -i686 versions :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: not uploaded yet, just had to build a fresh maverick chroot, so go ahead and mke more changes, let me know, and I'll pull.
<desrt> robert_ancell: i guess libdconf
<TheMuso> desrt: ah if its a library only, then that makes sense.
<desrt> well
<desrt> it's not just a library
<desrt> *shrug*
<desrt> maybe i should just rename dconf
<TheMuso> heh
<desrt> what's in a name?
<desrt> econf!
<desrt> cconf!
<TheMuso> yeah I know.
<TheMuso> c
<RAOF> aoeuconf.  I guarantee no one else will have that name!
<chrisccoulson> uconf!
<RAOF> I-conf u-conf we allâ¦ conf for i-conf?
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> right, bed time for me. i'm meant to be waking up again in 3 hours
<TheMuso> RAOF: I am building amd64 of mesa, and wow it takes a while, and this is on a quad core 3GHz penryn CPU.
<Amaranth> gah it takes so long for a pbuilder run
<chrisccoulson> Amaranth - dpkg ;)
<Amaranth> eh?
<chrisccoulson> it's probably dpkg taking ages to unpack things isn't it?
<chrisccoulson> that's a known issue
<Amaranth> oh, I suppose so
<Amaranth> It takes like 15 minutes to install all the packages before it can start building
<Amaranth> Then again it is installing 700MB worth of stuff
<RAOF> TheMuso: May I steal your computer? :)
<RAOF> Yeah, it takes ages, at least in part because it builds everything five different ways.
<TheMuso> heh lovely
<TheMuso> RAOF: heh
<chrisccoulson> Amaranth, see bug 570805
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 570805 in dpkg (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 3 other projects) "[regression] dpkg fsync cause massive regression in Ubuntu Server and Alternate installation times (affects: 10) (dups: 1) (heat: 80)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570805
<Amaranth> my penryn is a lousy 2Ghz dual core
<RAOF> i386 will now be *slightly* faster, because it won't build swrast twice with identical options.
<TheMuso> There is a plan to cretae a command-line flag for dpkg to turn that off, so we could set things up such that its turned off for sbuild/pbuilder.
<Amaranth> wow ubot2 got rather verbose
<chrisccoulson> i need a machine like the one TheMuso has
<TheMuso> RAOF: right
 * TheMuso got this box as an all-rounder back in 2008. Good for audio, video, VMs, compiling, etc.
<TheMuso> When I updated my desktop and notebook, I wanted penryn so I had the SSE4 instructino set available to apps I wanted to use.
<TheMuso> instruction
<TheMuso> RAOF: so just let me know when you have updated git with your changes that you want included.
 * RAOF needs to find his LCD so that his (c2006 - athlon64, baby!) desktop box can be used again.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Once mesa has test-built on i386â¦ :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: heh ok.
<Amaranth> I wonder if I could convince pbuilder to use libeatmydata for dpkg
<RAOF> TheMuso: Everything's pushed and ready, if you'd like to try and beat my core2 duo laptop in an i386 build-off :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: heh ok
<TheMuso> let me fetch
<Amaranth> Need to get 0B/199MB of archives. After unpacking 805MB will be used.
<Amaranth> I dunno if I've mentioned this before but Compiz depends on _everything_
<RAOF> That's a pretty impressive compression ratio
 * TheMuso builds mesa for i386.
<RAOF> BAh.  One final change - UNRELEASED â maverick in changelog.  Won't affect the build, though.
<TheMuso> right
<TheMuso> RAOF: any reason why you are not merging with the unreleased changes in the debian-experimental branch, one of which looks useful with package stripping?
 * TheMuso notes he regularly does this with alsa packages, due to the useful changes that exist, and the infrequency at times of updates in terms of package uploads in Debian.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Probably because those changes weren't there at the time.  I'll incorporate them.
<TheMuso> RAOF: ah ok
<RAOF> Hm.  How should that get changelogd?
<TheMuso> RAOF: Good question. You could add them as extra changes for Ubuntu, stating that they are unreleased changes from the Debian git branch
<RAOF> That's what I was going to do.  Is that what you do for alsa?
<TheMuso> No I don't, but its something I should do differently in the future, now that I've thought about it.
<TheMuso> It hasn't bitten me in a bad way as yet, but is tidier.
<TheMuso> sorry, is not as tidy
<TheMuso> So for mesa on i386:
<TheMuso> Finished at 20100520-1309
<TheMuso> Build needed 00:23:42, 1758288k disc space
<Amaranth> How do you get those stats?
<RAOF> sbuild
<RAOF> Build needed 00:45:48, 1950392k disc space
<RAOF> Your machine appears to be roughly twice as fast as mine for building mesa.  Damn.
<Amaranth> sbuild apparently lets you make -j5
<RAOF> TheMuso: Changes merged & pushed.  Feel free to use your awesome powers of CPU to test build again, but it *should* be trivially safe.
<TheMuso> RAOF: ok thanks
<RAOF> I'm test-building i386 because I'm paranoid; if you want to test-build, amd64 will be useful.
<TheMuso> ok great
<TheMuso> Give the flexibility of sbuild, if the slightly higher learning curve, I've never looked back.
<TheMuso> given
<Amaranth> RAOF: Is there a setup guide for using sbuild this way? The one on the wiki seems to be from hardy
<RAOF> mk-sbuild, basically.
<RAOF> From ubuntu-dev-tools
<RAOF> It does all you want and you don't even need lvm.
<Amaranth> sbuild maverick chroot building
<Amaranth> I've _got_ to figure out how to get libeatmydata into these chroots
<RAOF> Mount them on a tmpfs
<Amaranth> *facepalm*
<RAOF> Quick, easy fsync :)
<Amaranth> Although I don't think I have enough memory
<RAOF> It's a bit easier with sbuild, since you won't need the memory for the base chroot.
<Amaranth> still, 800MB of data before I even start building :/
<RAOF> Well, 1000MB - you also need the .debs :)
<Amaranth> d'oh
<Amaranth> right
<Amaranth> Also, I don't see a way to tell sbuild to do that
<RAOF> mount a tmpfs on /var/lib/sbuild/overlay
<Amaranth> ah, nice
<TheMuso> Ok, I'll just have a quick squiz at the diff for this mesa upload, and if all looks good, then I'll upload.
<TheMuso> amd64 built fine BTW.
<RAOF> Sweet.  Once that's available xserver + a hojillion drivers is open for business :).
<TheMuso> RAOF: hrm could you please confirm something for me? You said using git buildpackage -S to build the package, however the debdiff is creating a .gitignore, when I compare 7.8.1-1 to 7.8.1-2
<TheMuso> s/-2/-1ubuntu1/
<TheMuso> So I wonder whether I am building it incorrectly...
<Amaranth> ooh, cjwatson already fixed the dpkg suckage
 * TheMuso tries with a more refined buildpackage command.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Hm.  I don't see any .gitignore changes in the git diff.  I'll check against my locally built packages.
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> RAOF: do you have perhaps have another git buildpackage config file other than whats in debian/
<Amaranth> hmm, sbuild doesn't seem to be using /var/lib/sbuild/overlay
<Amaranth> sbuild -Asd maverick foo.dsc certainly seems to be installing stuff somewhere though
<TheMuso> schroot puts chroots in /var/lib/schroot/mount
<Amaranth> yep, that's the spot
<RAOF> TheMuso: No, you're right.  My build also seems to remove all the .gitignore, but the debian package doesn't.
<Amaranth> So I guess I need to make /var/lib/schroot/mount a tmpfs?
<TheMuso> RAOF: ah right that confirms what I am seeing now, the diff.gz for the Ubuntu version doesn't have .gitattributes or .gitignore
<TheMuso> RAOF: but thats not all bad.
<TheMuso> The package is more lintian clean in that way
<TheMuso> RAOF: I'm willing to disregard that then
<TheMuso> unless you would rather not...
<RAOF> I'm not sure why they're not being stripped in Debian, but they should be (by dpkg-source -i -I, I believe).  I'm happy to disregard that.
<TheMuso> ok fine by me
<Amaranth> Weird split
<TheMuso> RAOF: I see that Ubuntu is using debhelper 7 for packaging. Is that going to be pushed to the Debian branches at all by yourself or the Debian X guys?
<Amaranth> Actually whatever sbuild is doing seems unaffected by the fsync stuff
<Amaranth> It's chewing CPU processing the unpacking so quickly
<TheMuso> Amaranth: Interesting. Did you use the script from ubuntu-dev-tools to set it up?
<Amaranth> yeah
<TheMuso> hrm. I still do mine by hand. I'll have to see what that script does these days.
<Amaranth> oh, it's aufs+unionfs
<Amaranth> or wait, just aufs?
<RAOF> TheMuso: Where - in mesa?  No, the bump for debhelper 7.2.something is for dh_strip --remaining-packages, and that came from Debian.
<RAOF> Just aufs, unless you switch it to unionfs
<TheMuso> RAOF: oh right, of course, thanks.
<Amaranth> I dunno, I don't keep up with filesystem stuff
<Amaranth> Anyway, it's much faster than pbuilder
<TheMuso> That seems icky IMO.
 * TheMuso would prefer LVM snapshots.
<TheMuso> s/would prefer/preferrs/
<RAOF> That makes it harder to build in a tmpfs, though :)
<TheMuso> True, but easier to manage chroots etc.
 * RAOF should really publish his building-on-tmpfs pbuilder benchmarks.
<Amaranth> oh you're kidding
<Amaranth> It doesn't cache build deps?
 * TheMuso pats his local mirror.
<Amaranth> I'm half tempted to just upload this to my PPA to see if it works
<TheMuso> RAOF: One last question. Is the fix that was uploaded in lucid-proposed for mesa in maverick yet?
<RAOF> TheMuso: Yes.  That was a cherrypick from upstream, and the new version contains it.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Ok then, thanks.
<TheMuso> RAOF: just needed to know in relation to what changelog entries should be included in the changes file.
<RAOF> Just the last two.
<TheMuso> you mean prior to your changelog entry? Yeah thats what I've done.
<TheMuso> Strike that, I know what you mean, the last two including yours.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Are you aware that the .diff.gz files for both debian and this proposed Ubuntu package have files directly modified in the source tree, and the ubuntu package also has debian/patches files?
<TheMuso> ah its not so bad, Debian has that too. Kind of a mess, but anyway.
 * TheMuso uploads.
<RAOF> Yes.  Thanks!
<TheMuso> np
 * TheMuso is glad he won't be the one cleaning that up.
<TheMuso> Ouch, the diff alone is ~2MB.
<TheMuso> 2.5MB even
<TheMuso> RAOF: uploaded.
<RAOF> Sweet.  Thanks again.
<TheMuso> np
<RAOF> A surprising amount of that diff is ChangeLog, at 7.8MB uncompressed :)
<TheMuso> Yeah I can imagine.
<ccheney> is there a list of tags posted somewhere, like all the apport-* related tags?
<ccheney> i'm trying to write a bug automation script to ask for apport-collect info for bugs but it seems there are at least several apport related tags
<ccheney> it looks like there are 4 of them
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, can you sponsor GTK+ (in bzr)
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Sure. You got all the X bits you needed through the NEW queue yet?
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, yup, they were there by this morning (don't know what the delay was in the end)
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: ok then will take a look.
<robert_ancell> hey does anyone know why the recent build of libffi puts its header files in a strange place? http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/i386/libffi-dev/filelist
<robert_ancell> I'm guessing it's a bug in their build system?
 * ccheney likes arsenal, much easier to triage with it :)
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: I am test building gtk now.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, thanks
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: you have left out all the previous ubuntu changelog entries.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: i.e only  your merge changelog is present.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, yes, that's the best way to do it - the previous entries aren't relevant anymore
<robert_ancell> I'm trying to think who said it was ok to do it that way...
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: hrm ok. Generally if its a merge, we keep all the other changelog entries in the merge so people can go back and see when perticular additions to the Ubuntu package were made.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, what use is that?  The patch headers contain the metadata about the patches and link to the bug reports with this information
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Very well, I see thats how it was done previously.
<mvo> its seems that its slightly different in different teams
<TheMuso> mvo: More than that, its different between package groups, i.e X and GTK/GNOME is different. :)
<mvo> yeah :)
<mvo> I tend to preserve the changelogs, but I can see that having all the metadata in the patches is valid and the merge can be a bit painful with the changelog
<robert_ancell> well, I like to remove them because it makes future merging harder and it's confusing to read the changelog
<TheMuso> fair enough.
<robert_ancell> especially when you do a few merges in a row and end up with very large "Ubuntu changes" changelog entries
 * TheMuso is building i386 of gtk now. Amd64 was fine but wil wait till this is built and upload.
<mvo> yep, fair enough from me too
<robert_ancell> mvo, hey btw :)
<mvo> I guess its a good afternoon for you :)
<mvo> funny, I'm still having my wake-up tea (and I'm not yet fully woken up)
<TheMuso> The only thing I don't like about this time of year, is that it gets dark too early. :)
<TheMuso> The weather on the other hand, is great!
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, depends on your preferred weather!
<robert_ancell> has anyone ever tried solang?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Thats true. I refer to the mid to late autumn Sydney weather, pleasant days, cool nights.
<mvo> TheMuso: oh, nice. we have really bad weather here, its supposed to be summer, but all we get currently is rain and grey skys
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, GTK+ sure takes a long time to compile :)  Took me at least 30 mins on my Maverick build box which is unfortunately a netbook
<TheMuso> Does indeed.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Yeah took me 29 mins for i386 and 27 mins for amd64.
<didrocks> good morning
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: uploading
<TheMuso> Wow. Gtk is slightly bigger tarball wise than mesa was.
<robert_ancell> didrocks, hey
<robert_ancell> didrocks, do you know much about gobject introspection?  I noticed you did the GTK+ work.  I'm trying to get PyGI working...
<didrocks> robert_ancell: hey o/ I don't know "much", but I've used a little bit the pygi for clutter and it didn't really work as well as expected
<robert_ancell> didrocks, I've got a package for it but there's nothing in gi.repository.  Was wondering if you had any debugging tips
<didrocks> robert_ancell: hum, not really, sorry :/, but gi repository is deprecated, no?
<robert_ancell> didrocks, i'm not sure, but I haven't got my head fully around gi yet.  Still seems quite fluid
<asac> o/
<robert_ancell> o/
<didrocks> hey asac
<RAOF> TheMuso: And if we built GTK 5 times I'm sure it'd take as long to build, too :)
<asac> hi didrocks, robert_ancell !
<didrocks> robert_ancell: I still have on my "TOREAD" stuff the blog posts from yesterday on pygi :)
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti, how are you?
<TheMuso> RAOF: heh
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, I'm great! how are you?
<didrocks> pitti: I'm fine, thanks ;)
<mvo> hm, I had a dialog this morning that my stadnard folders need new names. but all it want to change is "Desktop" to "Downloads". that does not look right
<robert_ancell> later all
<didrocks> see you robert_ancell
<seb128> ok
<seb128> versions tracking maverick now
<didrocks> seb128: cool \o/
<vish> seb128: hi.. how do i get an upload to lucid-proposed ? [for SRU]
<pitti> vish: it's technically no different than uploading to maverick, except that the nature of changes needs to match the SRU requirements, and it needs to link to an SRU bug
 * pitti lunch &
<vish> seb128: pitti: ex: Bug #566996 i think i filled the description appropriately..
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 566996 in humanity-icon-theme (Ubuntu) "Humanity in KDE does not display volume icons. (affects: 1) (heat: 7)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566996
<pitti> vish: ah, so KDE doesn't get along with the .png -> .svg symlink hack?
<pitti> approved the lucid task
<vish> pitti: yeah , thanks..
<seb128> vish, I was away for lunch, what pitti said
<seb128> you just need the upload to go to lucid-proposed in the changelog
<seb128> with a bug which has the debdiff and has a testcase
<vish> seb128: oh , ok so the changelog for the lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release branch should mention "lucid-proposed" , on it
<vish> thanks..
<seb128> yes
<vish> seb128: fixed the changelog to lucid-proposed :  lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release , could you upload it to -proposed..
<seb128> vish, I will have a look later when I do some SRU round
<vish> seb128: neat thanks..
<seb128> you're welcome, thanks for working on the change!
<vish> np..  :)
<kenvandine> seb128, when does the tracker update?
<kenvandine> WI tracker that is?
<seb128> kenvandine, once a day or when pitti kicks an update I think
<seb128> pitti, ^
<kenvandine> ok
<pitti> it updates WIs hourly
<pitti> and team members/milestones daily
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, is that anything you miss there?
<kenvandine> i fixed something
<kenvandine> removed the leading *
<kenvandine> so now my WI count is a perfect 16 :)
<seb128> pitti, do you have any suggestion about who would know about zip and encoding or could take responsability for this change out of you?
<pitti> seb128: bug 580961?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 580961 in unzip (Debian) (and 2 other projects) "unzip fails to deal correctly with filename encodings (affects: 84) (dups: 19) (heat: 582)" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/580961
<seb128> pitti, yes, it seems to be high on the user annoyance list looking at duplicates
<seb128> pitti, and since you are not going to work on it I'm trying to figure where to bounce it
<pitti> I haven't looked at it at all yet
<seb128> well you shouldn't ;-)
<pitti> I never actually touched that patch, so I'm afraid I know nothing more than anyone else
<seb128> ok, good, thanks
<pitti> but oh well, we don't even support non-UTF8 file names, locales, etc.
<seb128> I will add it on my list of things to look at
<pitti> so I don't consider it a major issue TBH
<pitti> merci
<pitti> and this is not the kind of change that I like us to carry permanently
<seb128> it has quite some duplicate, I would like to have that sorted still ;-)
<seb128> you're welcome
<pitti> that patch is ancient, and if it never made it upstream, there's something fishy
<pitti> doko originally applied it, but apparently got the idea wrong what it actually does
<pitti> but this was in feisty, so he might not remember the details any more
<seb128> I will try to understand what is going on and talk to doko about it a bit later
<seb128> thanks!
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<kenvandine> seb128, got a few to review my blueprints?
<seb128> kenvandine, yes, did the track picked your updates yet?
<kenvandine> probably not, but it is obvious
<kenvandine> basically my number is 16, not 22
<kenvandine> the ones with [segphault] were getting counted for me
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so let's review those
<seb128> you have 3 specs right?
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> desktop-maverick-empathy-indicator
<seb128> desktop-maverick-gwibber-test-suite
<seb128> desktop-maverick-social-api
<seb128> + some items on dx specs
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html says you have 49 items for the cycle
<pitti> ?!
<seb128> what was item per week count?
<pitti> two hours ago it was 4
<kenvandine> my target is 16 for a2
<seb128> pitti, ? I'm talking to kenvandine
<pitti> seb128: I can do one per week
<pitti> seb128: argh, sorry; got the hightlight due to the /~pitti/
<seb128> pitti, sorry seems there is some confusion
<kenvandine> hehe
<seb128> pitti, kenvandine can't make it to the meeting today, we are review his items
<seb128> reviewing
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<kenvandine> weekly target is 3
<kenvandine> so actually my a2 target is 18
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> i have 16 so far for my specs
<seb128> so let's start with
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-1.html
<kenvandine> which only gives me room for 2 more :)
 * pitti should have put them into a role account
<kenvandine> only other item i know about is indicator-network plus my usually package wrangling
<seb128> ok
<seb128> alpha1 has the indicator-appmenu items
<desrt> seb128, pitti, kenvandine; good morning
<seb128> do you know if that's on track to land in the next 2 weeks?
<seb128> desrt, hey
<pitti> hey desrt, how are you?
<desrt> pretty decent
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> seb128, those should be thursday
<kenvandine> next week
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> so alpha1 on track
<seb128> looking to http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html now
<desrt> seb128: there are some new packages :)
<seb128> desrt, no time for dconf this week sorry ;-)
<kenvandine> yay tracker refreshed
<desrt> it's fine :p
<seb128> but maybe robert_ancell will pick it up, he did the glib 2.25 update
<desrt> was wondering if maybe we can get the 'dconf' package dropped from universe though
<desrt> otherwise i will be forced to rename it to seb128conf
<seb128> I doubt it
<seb128> namespace clash suck
<kenvandine> hehe
 * desrt installed epiphany-game during the default browser selection session >:(
<chrisccoulson> i've done that before too ;)
<kenvandine> seb128, so for a2 my target is 18 and i have 16, i think the indicator-network stuff should have WIs for me, so that will max me out
<kenvandine> but it should be doable
<desrt> chrisccoulson: i think every living being has done that at some point
<kenvandine> 2 of the a2 WIs are almost done already
<seb128> kenvandine, right, I'm reviewing your a2 items right now, seems good
<kenvandine> actually 3
<seb128> desrt, yeah...
<desrt> ok
<desrt> seb128conf it is
<seb128> kenvandine, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-empathy-indicator do we still need an empathy change or the preference?
<desrt> i will let the gnome admins know to rename the module in git and bugzilla
<desrt> :)
<seb128> desrt, lol
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah, small one
<kenvandine> to enable or disable use of the indicator
<kenvandine> we'll read the pref from gconf
<kenvandine> i don't want any UI in the service
<seb128> I'm wondering if we need an UI
<kenvandine> and empathy will need to know if it needs to use the StatusIcon or not
<seb128> the service will be a new binary?
<kenvandine> yes
<seb128> can't we just be smart about it depending on whether the service is installed or not
<seb128> and maybe have a gconf key for tweaking but without ui
<kenvandine> we could... but makes it a little harder for users to go back and forth
<kenvandine> either way requires a patch to empathy
<seb128> ok, fair enough
<kenvandine> so empathy doesn't use the status icon
<kenvandine> trying to keep it simple
<kenvandine> we already have the UI patch in place and is tiny
<seb128> right
<ArneGoetje> seb128: I have one blueprint, which doesn't show up in the burndown chart. Can you please take a look? https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-language-selector-code-changes
<seb128> your list seems good, you have quite some items but tasks are reasonable amount of work and it seems doable
<kenvandine> good :)
<seb128> kenvandine, who is in charge or porting the indicator to libgwibber, dx or you?
<kenvandine> me
<seb128> kenvandine, you seem to have no work items for those tasks?
<kenvandine> well the indicator won't be in libgwibber
<kenvandine> that won't change actually
<kenvandine> that is driven by gwibber-service
<seb128> ok, so indicator change required?
<kenvandine> no
<seb128> ArneGoetje, done
<seb128> ArneGoetje, it needed the serie goal to be accepted
<kenvandine> libgwibber is just for other apps besides gwibber
<seb128> ArneGoetje, should be there on next refresh
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, good
<ArneGoetje> seb128: ok, thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, is there any item for the indicator-clock packaging somewhere?
<kenvandine> that packaging is done
<seb128> I guess it will need to get uploaded and promoted this cycle
<kenvandine> the only thing needed would be to drop the existing one
<kenvandine> just needs to land in main
<seb128> should we track that?
<kenvandine> didrocks might already be
<kenvandine> since that is already in UNE
<kenvandine> if not it would be good to track it
<seb128> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-m-indicator-clock
<didrocks> kenvandine: I guess there is a dx spec for it
<didrocks> ok, seb128 found it :)
<seb128> didrocks, kenvandine: ^ can you coordinate to get 2 items there
<seb128> one for getting it uploaded
<seb128> one mir
<seb128> decide between you who takes the actions
<didrocks> I was thinking all indicators stuff was on kenvandine, hence the fact I didn't check
<seb128> it should not be lot of work anyway ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, can you get it in universe?
<seb128> didrocks, can you get the mir done and une to pull it in?
<kenvandine> i can
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, you are on track for your specs it seems, thanks for the review
<kenvandine> thank you
<seb128> good luck for getting all that done now ;-)
<kenvandine> hehe
<seb128> desrt, so dconf, we don't have good way to handle renames
<desrt> *ahem* drop? :)
<seb128> users who have current dconf installed would receive something different on upgrade replacing what they use
<desrt> i guess the upgrade question is pretty pointless when the new package is default-installed
<seb128> we would need to convince debian too since it comes from there
<kenvandine> seb128, can you sponsor lp:~ubuntu-desktop/indicator-application/ubuntu
<kenvandine> to lucid-proposed?
<seb128> kenvandine, will do, thanks to ted and you for working on it
<kenvandine> it got rejected for me
<pitti> seb128: I don't understand? wouldn't it be enough to have the new packages conflicts/replaces: dconf?
<seb128> pitti, which new packages?
<kenvandine> and subscribe ubuntu-sru to bug 569273
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 569273 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) "memory leak in gnome-power-manager on lucid (affects: 11) (heat: 50)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/569273
<seb128> pitti, there is a dconf already which is something else
 * kenvandine needs to head out now... be back in a few hours
<pitti> seb128: aah, right; this is not _that_ dconf, sorry
<seb128> kenvandine, I will let you handle the bug subscribing etc side
<seb128> pitti, yeah, confusing...
<pitti> seb128: the binary might be libdconf1 and libdconf-bin?
<seb128> they might, I didn't look at it yet
<didrocks> seb128: I've added that to the WI "MIR for UNE components"
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> desrt, how are the applications ported to gsettings working right now without dconf?
<desrt> they use a backend inside of glib that stores the settings in a GHashTable local to the program
<seb128> it means you loose your config when you close the software?
<desrt> yes
<seb128> ok, we don't want to package 2.31 yet :p
<desrt> just package dconf first :p
<seb128> yeah, will try to get that done next week
<desrt> i guess dconf should be Recommends: of libglib
<seb128> right
<seb128> slomo, hey
<seb128> slomo, will you work on packaging dconf for debian?
<slomo> seb128: probably not, too busy with other stuff
<slomo> seb128: same goes for gtk3 :(
<seb128> ok
<seb128> you started on glib 2.25 so I was wondering
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> seb128: you could upload it to debian as well?
<seb128> pitti, right, I was just checking before we start and duplicate work
<seb128> I will get it in debian
<seb128> though I guess Debian will not do anything with it in the next month
<seb128> they will freeze soon
<pitti> they probably won't mind having it in experimental
<seb128> right, I will get it there
<desrt> seb128: yes.
<desrt> er.  ignore me.
<ccheney> good morning
<seb128> hey tedg, rickspencer3
<seb128> tedg, rickspencer3: slightly going back on your local timezones it seems? ;-)
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<rickspencer3> yes, I went to bed and woke up at normal times for the first time since back!
<tedg> seb128, Trying ;)
<rickspencer3> I am very happy
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<seb128> pitti, do you plan do your merges during your distro time or should we try to take over those?
<pitti> seb128: I did a few, but I might not get to all of them
<seb128> I guess we can ask tremolux to help on those
<seb128> would be some good training for distro work
<rickspencer3> seb128, is there an invite for the bp review meeting?
<rickspencer3> does everyone know when it is?
 * tremolux waves
<pitti> rickspencer3: I got one
<seb128> rickspencer3, I sent a reminder this morning, let me know if that didn't work
<seb128> rickspencer3, I use the launchpad "contact team members"
<seb128> hey tremolux
<seb128> hey ccheney too
<tremolux> seb128: hiya seb128
<ccheney> seb128: hi
 * tremolux reaches out for seb128 but catches only air
<DASPRiD> tremolux, so you got him?
<DASPRiD> :)
<tremolux> DASPRiD: haha
<rickspencer3> seb128, fyi ... I'm going to take a swap day tomorrow
<seb128> rickspencer3, ok, enjoy it!
<seb128> rickspencer3, will you drive the eastern edition for specs btw?
<seb128> specs -> workitems
<rickspencer3> seb128, yeah
<rickspencer3> I'll do my best
<rickspencer3> maybe tomorrow you can check them over, though
<seb128> will do
<seb128> at what time is the eastern edition?
<seb128> rickspencer3, is desktop-maverick-desktop-application-selection worth tracking or are the only plan of record tracked by other specs?
<seb128> ie shotwell by default
<seb128> gobby has some notes about getting new screensavers, etc
<seb128> tremolux, don't forget to define your work items for the meeting in 1h58
<seb128> tremolux, desktop-maverick-software-center-front-end still has none
<seb128> TheMuso, should desktop-maverick-gnome3-accessibility-readiness be tracked for maverick or not? it has no work items but is on the maverick serie
<rickspencer3> seb128, I think not
<rickspencer3> same with the UNE one
<tremolux> seb128: yep, actually, I apologize but didn't know about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/WorkItemProcess until this morning
<seb128> rickspencer3, ok, should I mark it informational?
<tremolux> seb128: I'm working right now with mvo to coordinate our work items
<seb128> tremolux, oh ok, thanks, you didn't get the "Blueprints and Work Items" email 3 days ago from rick?
<tremolux> seb128: nope  :(
<seb128> tremolux, you should be in the team and it has been sent to team member on launchpad
<tremolux> I think I was added this week
<seb128> tremolux, do you have a launchpad filter which could have sent that in your flood or bug emails?
<seb128> tremolux, you were added 6 days ago according to my emails
<tremolux> seb128: hrm
<seb128> tremolux, you should have received it...did you get the one I sent today about the meeting reminder?
<tremolux> seb128: yep, I did get the reminder, which is when I found out about it
<seb128> tremolux, ok, let's assume things are working now
<seb128> tremolux, thanks for working on getting the list done, don't worry if you are a bit late that's not an issue
<tremolux> seb128: thanks seb128, sorry about that!
<seb128> no worry!
<seb128> pitti, could you kick a workitems update in 1.5hours?
<seb128> pitti, I would like to have an updated summary for the meeting
<pitti> seb128: in 1.5 hours it'll trigger automatically anyway
<pitti> it's :05 past the hour
<rickspencer3> I love seeing seb128 cracking the whip
<seb128> rickspencer3, ;-)
<pitti> yeah, he learned that quickly :)
 * pitti hugs seb128
<seb128> lol
 * rickspencer3 leans back on marble couch while getting fed grapes
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> rickspencer3: sounds ... stressful :)
<seb128> lol
<rickspencer3> you guys make my job so hard
 * tremolux is mumbling with mvo..
<seb128> mvo, do you think there is an actual lp team on launchpad you could use rather than "lp team" in your specs?
<seb128> mvo, or pick somebody on the launchpad side
<mvo> seb128: soyuz is the one that I can think of that is closest
<seb128> mvo, I guess the soyuz team doesn't do workitems charts anyway so there is no real point to match their team there...
<seb128> mvo, is somebody in charge of checking that things are being done on the server side?
<rickspencer3> seb128, mvo can we not just assign work items to bigjools on the white board?
<mvo> oh, that is a good idea, we can just use his name instead of the team
<mvo> seb128: its there to show that its a dependency for some of our functionality
<seb128> or to whoever on the distro side is tracking those changes
<seb128> soon mvo will have half of ubuntu workitems assigned to him ;-)
 * seb128 hugs mvo
 * DASPRiD pets seb128 
<rickspencer3> tremolux, I'm not seeing the bug report for that weird PPA issue we saw yesterday
<Amaranth> hmm, I think I might need to get some help from the KDE guys on this compiz packaging issue
<Amaranth> compiz generates a pot file during the build which is then used to generate translated xml files and gconf schemas from those xml files but I think since the pot file is going in to the srcdir instead of the builddir this is failing silently in pbuilder and sbuild
<tremolux> rickspencer3: yep, still need to write it, unfortunately, looks like that ppa (ppa:nisshh/ppa) has been deleted?
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> weird
<rickspencer3> tremolux, I'll ask nisshh what's up
<tremolux> rickspencer3: k, thanks
<seb128> hey there
<seb128> meeting in 1 minute
<ccheney> here
<ArneGoetje> o/
<seb128> ArneGoetje, ccheney, didrocks, chrisccoulson, Riddell, rickspencer3: hey
<seb128> did I forget anybody?
<chrisccoulson> hey
<seb128> pitti, not sure if you join
<pitti> I'll lurk
<didrocks> o/
 * chrisccoulson waves at pitti
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> hey everybody
<Riddell> hi
<seb128> I hope everybody travelled back safely
<seb128> and got over jetlag without ubufly
<seb128> ubuflu
<pitti> on that front it was surprisingly quiet indeed
<chrisccoulson> is ubufly a new airline? ;)
<pitti> seems we finally exchanged enough germs around the world :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> pitti, it seems lool and dholbach got it
<ccheney> i was surprised i didn't get sick this time
<seb128> not sure about other people
<seb128> so let's get started
<chrisccoulson> i didn't get sick either
<seb128> everybody did some good work on registering blueprints and workitems, so thanks!
<seb128> pitti, want to start? since you don't really have to stay for the meeting and have only 4 items should be quick then you are free to go enjoy your evening ;-)
<pitti> please :)
<seb128> I guess you can manage those 4 items during the cycle during your 20% distro time?
<pitti> absolutely
<pitti> the two vfat-noexec ones are by and large done
<pitti> just waiting for an ack from davidz
<pitti> "Add apport.hookutils.add_video_info" sounds easy
<pitti> and I don't know about the gpu hang detection
<seb128> ok, matches what I though too
<pitti> I'll talk to RAOF
<seb128> I don't see any special issue or anything to discuss
<seb128> thanks pitti ;-)
<pitti> that was quick :)
<seb128> indeed!
 * pitti hugs seb128 for organizing everything so well
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> hope your enjoy your rotation ;-)
<seb128> ok, let's keep going
<seb128> ArneGoetje, hey
<ArneGoetje> seb128: hi
<seb128> ArneGoetje, so you have 2 specs about language selector
<ArneGoetje> seb128: yup
<seb128> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-language-selector
<seb128> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-language-selector-code-changes
<seb128> ArneGoetje, did you calculate your workitem number by week for previous cycle?
<ArneGoetje> seb128: those 2 are not related, that's why I separated them
<seb128> ArneGoetje, how much was it? what does it give you for a2?
<ArneGoetje> seb128: I didn't calculate that, but I'll try to get as many done as possible for a2
<seb128> the idea was to use that as a metric to know how much you can aim at for a2
<seb128> could you try to calculate it later and let us know the number as it was described on the wikipage rick mentions some day ago in his email?
<seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/WorkItemProcess
<seb128> ArneGoetje, ^
<ArneGoetje> seb128: las cycle I had lots of extra stuff to do, so I figured the 11 items I have now are feasable
<seb128> ok, still do it for the record if you can
<seb128> so no alpha1 items so far
<seb128> and only one for alpha2
<seb128> is that correct?
<ArneGoetje> seb128: sure... just need to go digging for the old blueprints again
<seb128> just use the lucid team summary
<seb128> you have the count there
<seb128> by people
<seb128> divide by the number of weeks
<seb128> so let's go back to maverick
<seb128> ArneGoetje, you should probably target some extra items for alpha-2
<ArneGoetje> seb128: yes, I hope I can get the design mockups next week so that I can start right away
<seb128> you have only one according to http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html
<ArneGoetje> seb128: depends on how fast I can get the design mockups
<seb128> who is working on the design?
<ArneGoetje> michael forrest. I have contacted him already
<seb128> ok good
<seb128> do you have other things to work on until you get the design?
<seb128> or other non-spec work for this cycle?
<ArneGoetje> regarding the code changes I'll have a mini sprint with mvo next week, so that'l get me started too
<seb128> ok good
<seb128> your list of work items seem reasonable otherwise
<seb128> if you are blocked to get going on that maybe review lucid bugs on language selector and look if there is some sru required there
<ArneGoetje> I'm currently reading documentation about dbus and aptdeamon, and keep looking at bug reports which came in in the meantime.
<seb128> or try helping on merges for maverick if you think you can do some
<seb128> ok, seems good
<seb128> ArneGoetje, also is ubiquity using language selector for langpacks handling?
<ArneGoetje> seb128: yes, should be
<seb128> just checking if that should be something to take in account when you do the changes
<seb128> you have no work item about that
<seb128> could you add one about making sure ubiquity gets updated if required?
<seb128> or at least tested
<ArneGoetje> not sure how much changes I will have to do... hope the mini sprint with mvo clarifies that... so, expect some more work items to appear on that spec.
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> thanks ArneGoetje
<seb128> good luck for the sprint ;-)
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<seb128> ccheney, hi
<ccheney> seb128, hi
<seb128> ccheney, do you still have some desktop team time this cycle or are you helping the server time full time now?
<ccheney> seb128, yes 20%
<seb128> do you have any spec for those 20%?
<seb128> or just regular openoffice updates and cleaning?
<ccheney> seb128, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-openoffice
<seb128> oh, it has no serie goal
 * seb128 fixes that
<ccheney> seb128, cleaning/updating OOo and working with dx team on paper cuts/menu integration
<ccheney> ah sorry about that, forgot to tag it
<seb128> ccheney, no worry, I've done it
<seb128> the list of workitems there seems reasonable for a 20% time
<seb128> ccheney, thanks
<ccheney> ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hi
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you calculate your workitems by week count?
<seb128> not sure if you have been in the team long enough in lucid to do that though
<seb128> you pretty much worked on getting on speed with firefox I guess
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, work item/week count = infinity + 1
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i don't really have any historical data to do that yet
<rickspencer3> ;)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-chromium
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-user-accounts-dialog
<seb128> I see those specs on your list
<seb128> somewhat it seems to low I must be missing something? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, there is also https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-mozilla-team-discussion, which doesn't have a series goal just yet
<seb128> joke aside, you are quite busy with browser and n-m maintainship I guess
<chrisccoulson> but most of the WI's on there are not mine ;)
<seb128> should I set it now?
<seb128> the serie goal
<chrisccoulson> yes please :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm generally quite busy with browser maintenance atm ;)
<seb128> ok, serie goal accepted
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<seb128> so I guess your priority for now is to sort up quickly chromium and if it's doable for UNE this cycle
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i can do that
<seb128> should you have some alpha-1 or alpha-2 items about that?
<seb128> the technicals packaging changes can wait a bit
<seb128> but we should try to sort early what we need
<seb128> and if upstream is wanting to help getting there this cycle
<chrisccoulson> yeah. so, i think the big things are security updates and translations aren't they?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> + sorting what users issues we will need to get sorted
<seb128> ie dx indicator-menu integration
<seb128> csd
<seb128> somebody mentioned during the session also that printing was quite broken
<seb128> could you try to coordinate with bratsche_ maybe to talk to upstream about the menu and csd
<chrisccoulson> yeah, no problem
<seb128> + try to get the security updates discussion going and see what we can do for translations?
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> otherwise your useraccount spec seems reasonable
<seb128> chrisccoulson, anything else to add?
<chrisccoulson> i don't think i've got anything else to add
<seb128> ok, seems you are in shape and going to be busy again this cycle
<seb128> thanks chrisccoulson ;-)
<seb128> dunno what we would do without you
<seb128> don't forget to sleep and don't overwork yourself too much ;-)
<seb128> next
<seb128> didrocks, hey
<didrocks> yes o/
<didrocks> my magical number is 5 WI a week
<seb128> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-une-app-selection
<seb128> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-quickly
<seb128> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-oneconf
<seb128> didrocks, nice, somebody who reply before being asked, thanks ;-)
<didrocks> y/w :-)
<seb128> you have those on your list for now
<seb128> is there any spec missing or not listed yet?
<didrocks> no, I've gathered some part of other specs on thoses
<seb128> you will be busy maintaining UNE too
<didrocks> I guessâ¦ ^^
<Riddell> is UNE going to be the old UNE or Unity?
<seb128> unity
<seb128> didrocks, your list seems quite detailed and in shape
<seb128> you have a lot of alpha-2 items
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I think some WI are quite small, but it's more like a TODO reminder :)
<seb128> right
<seb128> it seems doable if you don't get too much sidetracked if maintaining other things
<seb128> or doing merges and updates
<didrocks> right, I've worked on the last two days to be able to close 3/4 WI :)
<seb128> let me know if you feel you need to reschedule some items during the next weeks
<didrocks> so, I think it's doable
<seb128> seems you are up for a busy cycle too but should manage
 * seb128 hugs didrocks
<didrocks> some WI can be postponed to alpha3 if it's short
 * didrocks hugs seb128
<seb128> keep rocking ;-)
<didrocks> thanks :-)
<seb128> right, it seems you targetted almost all your items for alpha-2
<seb128> we can probably delay some quickly one to alpha-3 if required
<didrocks> sure
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> Riddell, hey
<didrocks> thanks to you for the review :)
<seb128> Riddell, not sure if you want to do a kubuntu summary for us there
<Riddell> hi seb128
<seb128> or if you have something ready
<Riddell> we have lots of specs and todo items listed at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
<seb128> indeed
 * seb128 looks to the list
<seb128> seems a good list
<seb128> I trust you and the kubuntu team to be well organized and know what you have to do
<seb128> I've no special comment I think, anything you would like to mention or discuss with the team today?
<Riddell> as a mostly community project it's hard to pin down deadlines to milestones so I'm unsure if it's useful to mark items for alpha 2 or not
<seb128> I would say it's always good to write some goals
<seb128> it might help you to focus
<seb128> but there is no strong need for it
<seb128> you can also reshuffle later if required
<seb128> but it's up to you ;-)
<Riddell> yes, I'll mark some as being for alpha 2, see if it works or no
<seb128> seems good
<seb128> anything else?
<seb128> Riddell, thanks!
<seb128> next
<Riddell> just usual reminder that if anyone is working on cross desktop bits to let me know when anything is liable to break
<seb128> right, good point
<seb128> seems people are taking that into account, I've seen ArneGoetje have specific items to test the kde backend for the language selector changes
<Riddell> ooh good
<seb128> but we will make sure to let you know about the coming changes
<seb128> thanks Riddell ;-)
<seb128> next
<seb128> rickspencer3, hello
<rickspencer3> seb128, still otp
<rickspencer3> sorry
<seb128> ok
<seb128> no problem
<seb128> kenvandine is not there but I did review his items with it on the channel earlier
<seb128> those who are interested can read the log from 5 hours ago
 * kenvandine is actually here now :)
<kenvandine> but glad to be done
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> seems there is only me left now
<seb128> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-gnome
<seb128> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-overriding-defaults-on-upgrade
<seb128> I've those on my list
<seb128> I didn't take on too many items for this cycle, doing techlead work is going to take some of my time and I want some free slot to handle GNOME changes coming
<seb128> well robert will be in charge mostly
<seb128> but still there might be need for some extra hands to sort some of the changes
<seb128>  
<seb128> anybody has a comment about my specs?
<seb128> I guess not, let's move on ;-)
<seb128> I will catchup with rickspencer3 for his blueprints later on the channel
<seb128> and we will have an eastern edition tonight too
<seb128> some reminders before we end the meeting though
<seb128> - there will be lucid .1 in july
<seb128> (10.04.1)
<seb128> so keep fixing bugs you think are worth fixing there by doing sru updates
<seb128> don't spend too much time trying to fix every single bug though
<seb128> the maverick cycle will be short and we have lot to do
<seb128> - maverick is open
<seb128> lot of merges to do, help from everybody is welcome on those
<seb128> - it's review time
<seb128> by review I mean performance review
<chrisccoulson> does that apply to me too?
<seb128> so take some time to do that in the next week
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: only for people who began before February, from what I read on the wiki (need checking again)
<seb128> "Everyone who joined on or before 01 February 2010 is in scope for this
<seb128> review."
<seb128> chrisccoulson, when did you start?
<seb128> later than that I guess?
<seb128> anyway
<seb128> that's all from me I think
<seb128> rickspencer3, anything to add that I overlooked?
<seb128> rickspencer3, I know you are busy, it's just in case
<ccheney> i wanted to note that i will be gone the most of next week for a server sprint
<seb128> let's say it's a no, we can catch up later if required
<seb128> ccheney, ok, good luck
<seb128> thanks everybody
<ccheney> i will be available via email but probably won't be at keyboard on irc much
<kenvandine> thx seb128
<didrocks> thanks seb128 and everyone
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i started in march
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, when do you think you'll get conman uploaded to maverick?
<seb128> on which note it seems monday is a national holiday there
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, i could do it now
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, it would be appreciated :)
<chrisccoulson> it's already uploaded to the lucid PPA
<kenvandine> i saw
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, i am doing indicator-network now
<kenvandine> will get it into the lucid ppa first
<didrocks> going out for some errands, see you guys
 * ccheney off to late lunch, bbia 1h
<seb128> didrocks, have fun
 * seb128 going for dinner
<ArneGoetje> seb128: FYI, my WI/week for Lucid was 1.7
<Amaranth> nice, using a tmpfs for pbuilder is _fast_
<Amaranth> and I'm almost out of RAM :P
<Amaranth> oops, ran out
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, connman needs an upstart job
<chrisccoulson> and it needs porting to polkit-1
 * ccheney back
<ccheney> brb, have to reboot machine running irc client
<ccheney> back
 * ccheney found out today his wife might not actually have our son until June 18th, heh
<pitti> good night everyone
<rickspencer3> hey RAOF, robert_ancell, tremolux
<tremolux> howdy!
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hello
<rickspencer3> I guess time to review blueprints in 5 minutes?
<rickspencer3> TheMuso,  too
 * rickspencer3 feels like we are missing someone
<robert_ancell> good timing RAOF_!
<TheMuso> Morning folks.
<robert_ancell> [8:55] rickspencer3 feels like we are missing someone
<RAOF_> Morning all.
<tremolux> heya everyone
<rickspencer3> I guess we'll start here:
<rickspencer3> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick?searchtext=desktop-maverick
<rickspencer3> sort by assignee, and go through?
<rickspencer3> no bryce :,(
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-21
<rickspencer3> RAOF, robert_ancell, tremolux, TheMuso, shall we go ahead?
<TheMuso> sure
<tremolux> ready
<RAOF_> Yes.
<rickspencer3> RAOF, we'll start with you, since you are first on the list
<rickspencer3> RAOF did you get any kind of projection for WI through put?
<RAOF_> I only had 4 WI in Lucid, and they took ~1.5 weeks.  That's not really enough data to project from, I think.
<rickspencer3> so, like 3 per week
<rickspencer3> RAOF_ didrocks came up with 5 for himself, so shall we estimate 4 for you to start, maybe?
<RAOF_> That seems reasonable.
<rickspencer3> so that's 24 total for A2
<rickspencer3> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-video-bugs-in-the-kms-world
<rickspencer3> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-xorg-in-mm
<rickspencer3> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-easy-wayland-testing
<rickspencer3> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-xorg-gpu-freeze-reports
<rickspencer3> RAOF are those all of your blueprints for maverick?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, how are you getting that list?
<rickspencer3> they seem to have work items, and to be less than 24
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, go here:
<rickspencer3> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick?searchtext=desktop-maverick
<rickspencer3> and sort by assignee
<robert_ancell> and manually count work items?
<rickspencer3> pretty much, yeah
<RAOF_> Yep, those are all of them.
<rickspencer3> RAOF, do you see any reason not to target them all for A2?
<RAOF_> Oh, no, missed one.
<rickspencer3> basically get them all done by June 24th?
<rickspencer3> can you paste me a link to the one I missed?
<RAOF_> Yeah, grabbing it.
<rickspencer3> oops, there are only 5 weeks now
<rickspencer3> so 20 work items total
<RAOF_> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-rootless-x
<rickspencer3> so the first 4 brings you to 17
<RAOF_> This bumps it to 23
<rickspencer3> RAOF lots of work items there, so maybe target rootless x to A3?
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
<rickspencer3> or do you feel that it *must* be done for maverick?
<RAOF_> No.  It's a nice-to-have.
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> I'm targeting the first 4 to A2, the rootless x one to A3
<rickspencer3> sound ok?
<RAOF_> The other work items are mostly about getting good bugs and being able to deal with them - that's more imporltant.
<RAOF_> I'm fine with that.
<rickspencer3> sweet
<rickspencer3> next is tremolux
<tremolux> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-software-center-front-end
<rickspencer3> tremolux, were you able to calculate a WI throughput?
<tremolux> it's going to be a little complicated for my case
<tremolux> because we have community folks who are likely to grab some things
<rickspencer3> how does 4 per week sound as an estimate?
<tremolux> yes, that seems fine, 4-5 or so
<rickspencer3> yeah, that can increase productivity
<tremolux> so I have 17 here for alpha-2
<rickspencer3> tremolux, I think you'll have a tad less maintainer work than other folks, at least to start
<tremolux> yep
<rickspencer3> so maybe 5 is a good number
<rickspencer3> so 17 is just right
<rickspencer3> I only see one blueprint currently targeted for you:
<rickspencer3> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-software-center-front-end
<tremolux> yep, but I will likely have some work items on other blueprints
<tremolux> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-opportunistic-apps-stable-release
<tremolux> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-software-center-dynamic-appview
<tremolux> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-software-center-dynamic-testing-improvements
<tremolux> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-oneconf
<rickspencer3> does this have all the buy something and cool apps work items?
<tremolux> these bad boys
<rickspencer3> aha
<tremolux> no, this doesn't
<rickspencer3> so across those 5 blueprints, you have a total of 17 work items right now?
<tremolux> I think about 20, not counting the ones that I have past a-2
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> we need to pick for A2
<tremolux> oh, do we have the buy apps blueprint? not yet, right?
<rickspencer3> tremolux, correct, not yet, you are blocking on me to work out how to track LP work items
<rickspencer3> so those need to be, for sure, in A2
<tremolux> right, definitely
<rickspencer3> how many did you have from that one?
<rickspencer3> I see the work items, but I don't see which are for you
<tremolux> yes, I think I have "any UI work"
<rickspencer3> heh
<rickspencer3> ok, so I see there is a lot of work here, and the work items have been identified
<rickspencer3> but the 20 that you will sign up for in A2 haven't been called out yet
<rickspencer3> we'll have to take care of that tomorrow
<rickspencer3> tremolux, can you look through all of these specs, and see which ones you think you need to pick off for A2, including the "ghost spec" for buy something?
<tremolux> yes, it's a little tricky because mvo and I dynamically divide up work historically
<rickspencer3> ah
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<tremolux> we grab from a bucket  :)
<tremolux> but we don't have to do that
<rickspencer3> I see
<rickspencer3> well ... we shouldn't bust a functional work flow
<tremolux> it's fine to sign up, much better for tracking
<rickspencer3> let's do both
<tremolux> ok
<rickspencer3> sign up for say 15
<tremolux> that sounds good
<rickspencer3> maybe not 15, but the number that 1. should be done in A2 and 2. are very UIish, so most likely you will do
<rickspencer3> however, I do need to know between you, what you are committed to delivering in A2
<rickspencer3> even if many of the work items are unassigned
<tremolux> yep
<rickspencer3> tremolux, do you think you have enough information to identify the A2 work items tomorrow?
<tremolux> yes, I already made a cut for my spec
<rickspencer3> I'm concerned I'm not being clear
<rickspencer3> ok, it sounds good, then
<rickspencer3> the blueprint certainly have a lot of analysis in them
<tremolux> and tomorrow I'll work with mvo to 1. pare my list if necessary and 2. add items for me in the other specs
<rickspencer3> sounds great
<rickspencer3> rock
<tremolux> cool
<rickspencer3> any other concerns, etc...?
<tremolux> nope!  sorry everyone for the diversion from the noob
<tremolux> :)
<rickspencer3> software center is a bfd for Maverick!
<rickspencer3> welcome to the team :)
<rickspencer3> tremolux, tbh, we're all noobs at this ;)
<tremolux> haha, thanks!  \o/
<rickspencer3> next on the list is TheMuso
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, have you calculated a WI throughput?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: No, I haven't. You know me and graphs, and given the fact I didn't really have much in the way or work items last cycle, and that I don't have many this cycle, its not exactly that easy to do so.
<rickspencer3> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-gnome3-accessibility-readiness
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, that's fine
<rickspencer3> we all have different jobs
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: That spec has turned out to be more informational
<rickspencer3> that's why the system is flexible
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, I see some things there that could be turned in WIs
 * TheMuso looks again...
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, let's talk more next week
<TheMuso> ...and doesn't see things that could be WIs.
<rickspencer3> let me think
<rickspencer3> I'd like to see some commitments to technical progress in both accessibility and sound
<rickspencer3> but I think we need to discuss more
<rickspencer3> sound ok?
<TheMuso> Well other than getting the bits from upstream, there is not much else that could be a work item.
<TheMuso> and since we are starting to be more conservative with things...
<rickspencer3> that sounds like you are planning just to integrate upstream bits this cycle
<TheMuso> but ok sounds reasonable
<rickspencer3> which is good and important
<rickspencer3> but I'd like to see us go beyond that
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, were you able to calculate a WI throughput estimate?
<robert_ancell> I don't think I have enough data from the last cycle, I'm thinking the 20-25 team estimate sounds about right
<rickspencer3> cool
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I only see this one blueprint for you:
<rickspencer3> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-shotwell
<rickspencer3> are there others that haven't been accepted yet?
<robert_ancell> I'll be doing a large chunk of work on https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-gnome
<rickspencer3> I seem to recall some change mail from your blueprints
<rickspencer3> aha
<rickspencer3> of course
<rickspencer3> erk
<robert_ancell> all the new things I planned seb removed from the maverick schedule
<rickspencer3> looks like lots of tough ones
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, right ... that didn't mean you were banned from doing those
<robert_ancell> I was also signed up to getting PyGI working (foundations blueprint) but it doesn't seem to be on the Maverick schedule
<rickspencer3> just, not to commit to them
<robert_ancell> Also https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-shotwell
<rickspencer3> PyGI is not on the schedule!!
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I think shotwell maybe end up more maintainer work than expected
<rickspencer3> how many work items do you have in A2 total?
<robert_ancell> I don't have a lot of work items for these, as not sure how to divide, e.g. for GNOME should I make "Package 2.31.1", "Package 2.31.2" to break it up?
<rickspencer3> I'm wondering if you are feeling like you could do more?
<robert_ancell> based on comitted work, yes
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, do you feel like the current plan has you under-utilized?
<rickspencer3> if so, we should consider bringing back one of your other blueprints
<robert_ancell> sure, we should discuss priorities
<rickspencer3> for this stuff:  for GNOME should I make "Package 2.31.1
<rickspencer3> I think I wouldn't make work items, per se
<rickspencer3> that sounds more like regular maintainer work
<robert_ancell> they do represent chunks of work, so not sure if that's worth tracking or not
<rickspencer3> well ... if it's recurring and rote, it's probably worth accounting for, as in it will take up time, but not work tracking
<rickspencer3> if that makes sense
<robert_ancell> acounting != work tracking?
<rickspencer3> no
<rickspencer3> like I could assume you are going to do 20 hours per week of maintainer work on gnome, for example (made up number)
<rickspencer3> so I would account for that by knowing that you only have 20 more hours a week to work
<rickspencer3> but I would track the flow of maintainer work
<rickspencer3> it will just get done
<robert_ancell> ok
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I hate to think of  you not having awesome projects that you are motivated to work on
<robert_ancell> just to run back, "PyGI is not on the schedule", was that a statement of suprise or "it's not supposed to be on the schedule"
<rickspencer3> well, it was a statement of surprise
<rickspencer3> I would have thought it was a bit tricky to land and make it work
<rickspencer3> but maybe not
<rickspencer3> I know this is totally vague, btw
<robert_ancell> ok, shall we discuss after the meeting which project to put on schedule
<rickspencer3> well first, what do you think?
<rickspencer3> does it need to be tracked, etc...?
<robert_ancell> Color management is the interesting one I'd like to try
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<robert_ancell> which I know you want to talk about anyway :)
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, are doing the PyGI work specifically yourself, or are there other people involved?
<rickspencer3> I ask, because I care about this a lot for certain developer experience stuff we are workign on
<rickspencer3> like the easy and fun telepathy API
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I'm doing the packaging (I've done some work this week, but it's not working)
<rickspencer3> ah
<robert_ancell> so it should be working by default in Maverick asap
<robert_ancell> (but expected to still have all the usual bugs)
<rickspencer3> who is responsible for getting it working?
<rickspencer3> are you the maintainer?
<robert_ancell> no
<rickspencer3> foundations?
<robert_ancell> not sure, I think that's upstream.  The meeting was more about making it available so people are prepared for when the old bindings start to stop being maintiained
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> I would like someone in Ubuntu to be on point for making sure this goes smoothly
<tremolux> robert_ancell: do you know, is Barry working on this?
<robert_ancell> tremolux, I don't know, I'm looking for blueprint now
<rickspencer3> I am so happy to have robert_ancell back on the team!
<tremolux> robert_ancell rocked OEM!
<robert_ancell> I think it is, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-python-versions but it doesn't seem to have the items yet.  Maybe no-one copied them from the gobby doc
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I suggest that you work on color management (or what you prefer) but don't target it to the release
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, ok, can do
<rickspencer3> so we don't appear committed to delivering it
<rickspencer3> then you can pull a Simple Scan
<robert_ancell> hehe :)
<desrt> robert_ancell: hey
<rickspencer3> deliver such awesome software that everyone wants to ship it!
<robert_ancell> desrt, hey
<desrt> robert_ancell: seb was wondering if you had some free time to make some packages
<robert_ancell> desrt, ok, talk after meeting
<RAOF_> robert_ancell: Feel free to pour some colour-management work this way if you need to :)
<desrt> ah.  didn't realise.  sorry. :)
<rickspencer3> desrt is always welcome to our meetings! :)
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I think we are done, actually
<robert_ancell> ok, I feel like I'm hogging the meeting, anything I should do to track things?
<robert_ancell> oh ok
<rickspencer3> well ... just get your work items cleaned up on your blueprints
<rickspencer3> I'll look at the burndown chart on Monday and make sure nothing seems amiss
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, ok, I just don't have any really, let me know if there's a good way to break up the items
<rickspencer3> hmmm, you ended up with no spec work?
<rickspencer3> just maintenance?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, just no items, so I have two I put on Shotwell "Package 0.6" and "Package 0.7" but I just put them to have some items on this
<rickspencer3> basically, you are the new seb128 ;)
<robert_ancell> GNOME I have two that seb retro added (update GLIB, GTK+)
<rickspencer3> yeah, like you ended up with a large maintenance surface area
<robert_ancell> PyGI should have one
<rickspencer3> which makes sense
<rickspencer3> but I don't want you to be bored
<robert_ancell> I always have side projects :)
<rickspencer3> so I guess having a blueprint on the side makes sense
<rickspencer3> looking at your areas, you have a lot of responsibility for maverick!
<rickspencer3> alright, so let's finish up here
<rickspencer3> RAOF, TheMuso, tremolux, robert_ancell - thanks for your time and effort planning out maverick!
<rickspencer3> please note that we have HR review stuff due by Tuesday!
<tremolux> fun times  :)
<TheMuso> np
<rickspencer3> don't forget to invite peer reviews and such
<rickspencer3> any questions, comments, etc...?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: no questinos, but if you have a minute, I'd like to talk about your thoughts re technical progress for sound/a11y that you mentioned earlier.
<tremolux> not me
<TheMuso> questions
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, sure
<tremolux> ok, thanks all, I enjoyed my first desktop meeting, Eastern Edition (tm)
 * tremolux goes to make sure the kids didn't eat all the dinner
<robert_ancell> desrt, ok, so anything special to note about glib/dconf?
<desrt> ya.  you should add a small vendor patch to dconf
<desrt> also: you'll need a post-install hook
<desrt> the patch you should add is the one at the head of the 'master' upstream
<rickspencer3> tremolux, they are not usually this organized ;)
<desrt> totally silly mistake on my part
<desrt> the post-install hook is the one that runs gio-querymodules
<robert_ancell> desrt, any dconf/gconf interactions to worry about? (guessing no)
<desrt> nope
<robert_ancell> did seb128 give any hints on packaging naming?  I'm guessing gnome-dconf from the last discussion
<desrt> that's a dreadful name
<desrt> like, really really bad
<robert_ancell> and you would recommend...
<desrt> hmm.
<desrt> well, i like 'dconf'
<robert_ancell> because libdconf doesn't sound right.
<robert_ancell> Sorry, dconf is taken
<desrt> it's difficult
<robert_ancell> but it's also not really gnome specific
<desrt> really, the various binary packages will all have different names anyway
<desrt> unlikely to have one called 'dconf'
<desrt> the source package name is the trouble
<desrt> yes.  indeed.
<desrt> would it be very strange to call the source package 'dconf-source'?
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, ^ ?
<desrt> with binary package names like 'dconf-gsettings' 'dconf-tools' etc
<desrt> 'libdconf'
<robert_ancell> dconf-config? or something like that, i.e. "name"-"class"
<robert_ancell> dconf-settings?
<robert_ancell> dconf-registry?
<desrt> d-conf?
<robert_ancell> aha
<desrt> you're going to have to repackage 'dconf' in universe i guess
<desrt> because it tries to install /usr/bin/dconf.  i'll be using that.
<robert_ancell> why couldn't you have done a debian package name check before choosing the name!! :)
<TheMuso> gnome-dconf?
<desrt> no.
<TheMuso> orca is gnome-orca after all.
<desrt> it's not gnome-specific
<TheMuso> ah ok
<robert_ancell> we can't change the binary name
<robert_ancell> (of the existing dconf)
<desrt> epiphany got renamed to epiphany-game
<desrt> let the record show what happens when i run 'dconf'
<desrt> /usr/bin/dconf:3: DeprecationWarning: The popen2 module is deprecated.  Use the subprocess module.
<desrt>   import os, sys, glob, re, shutil, getopt, popen2, time, fnmatch
<desrt> /usr/bin/dconf:5: DeprecationWarning: the md5 module is deprecated; use hashlib instead
<desrt>   import difflib, smtplib, gzip, md5, sha
<desrt> /usr/bin/dconf:5: DeprecationWarning: the sha module is deprecated; use the hashlib module instead
<desrt>   import difflib, smtplib, gzip, md5, sha
<desrt> Traceback (most recent call last):
<desrt>   File "/usr/bin/dconf", line 481, in <module>
<desrt>     main()
<TheMuso> lovely
<robert_ancell> who would I talk to about renaming it?
<desrt> popcon says 150 people are using it
<desrt> i'm not sure?
<desrt> i don't know what happened for epiphany
<TheMuso> I guess in Debian is the best place to do this properly right, or is this a package that is only in Ubuntu?
<desrt> it's from debian
<desrt> http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=dconf
<TheMuso> right
<desrt> about 400 times as many people are using gconf
<robert_ancell> so I don't know what the process here is, what are the chances of filing a bug in debian and anything being done?  Guess I need to ask the Debian GNOME guys what their dconf plans are
<desrt> ah.  only 7 people are marked as having dconf installed/used recently
<TheMuso> wow
<desrt> how much do you want to bet that they all thought that they were getting my software? :p
<desrt> huh.  according to popcon, 99.79% of all debian users are using popcon
 * desrt suspicious
<Amaranth> epiphany didn't get their name
<Amaranth> They got epiphany-browser instead
<Amaranth> Heck, did git get their name yet?
<desrt> alternatives?
<desrt> yes.  git is git.
<desrt> er.
<desrt> Amaranth: we're talking about /usr/bin/ binary names, not packagers
<Amaranth> ah
<desrt> the epiphany-browser package installs /usr/bin/epiphany
<chrisccoulson> the existing dconf in the archive really should just be removed, it hasn't been updated for over 2 years now
<desrt> chrisccoulson: that's what i was getting at with my 'spews about deprecations then crashes'
<chrisccoulson> desrt - i agree, and i hate cruft anyway ;)
<desrt> robert_ancell: maybe you should wait
<chrisccoulson> ok, i will check to make sure nothing is build-depending on it and ask an archive admin to remove and blacklist it
<desrt> are you a DD?
<robert_ancell> no
<chrisccoulson> i'm not either
<robert_ancell> I'll get the packaging working and get seb to check this out, he's more on the pulse of Debian
<desrt> you should fairly familiar with the ways of debian :p
<desrt> *sound
<desrt> it's too hot in here.  my brain is melting.
<chrisccoulson> heh
<rickspencer3> good night all!
<rickspencer3> I'll be back on Monday (will check in tomorrow prolly)
<nigelb> Isn't assinging to desktop team out?
<nigelb> I believe we dont do that anymore
<lifeless> RAOF_: ping
<RAOF_> lifeless: Pong.
<lifeless> RAOF_: whats a good pci express video card to buy [good == linux love] these days
<lifeless> poolie is stranded at a computer shop
<lifeless> and has a fried card
<RAOF_> What's he need it for?
<lifeless> bzr dev
<lifeless> explicitly not games
<RAOF_> Buy the cheapest ATI card money can buy.
<lifeless> thanks
<RAOF_> That should be ~$50
<lifeless> and the free driver will likely run it ?
<lifeless> or the binary blob is tolerable ?
<RAOF_> Free driver works fine on the box next to me; that has a video card chosen by this algorithm.  The blob also works.
<lifeless> RAOF_: hd4350 ring any bells ?
<RAOF_> That's possibly what I've got in the box next to me.
<RAOF_> I'll check.
<lifeless> now thats service; poolie says 'thanks very much'
<lifeless> RAOF_: so what did lspci say ?
<RAOF_> Yup.  Radeon DH 4350 is what I've got.
<lifeless> awesome
<lifeless> poolie reckons its a typo :)
<lifeless> DH<->HD
<RAOF_> It is :)
<lifeless> poolie is very grateful
<RAOF_> No problem!
<RAOF> Yay sbuild-on-tmpfs-overlay!
<fagan> good morning desktoppers
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning pitti, fagan
<fagan> morning didrocks
<pitti> hey didrocks, fagan
<fagan> hey pitti
<seb128> hey there
<didrocks> salut seb128, bien dormi?
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> nickel, et toi?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> c'est bien, merci! et toi?
<didrocks> seb128: trÃ¨s bien, merci ;)
<seb128> pitti, gut danke
<nigelb> so many languages :)
<dpm> heya pitti, good morning, I'm moving all helper scripts related to Ubuntu Translations to a central location. We've got one to retrieve the URLs from translation imports. ArneGoetje told me it was you who wrote it, so I've added a license header and added you as the original author before publishing it. Before I push it, does that look ok to you (well, the license header, copyright assignment and such)? -> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/437184/
<pitti> dpm: no, I don't think I wrote this :) just leave you as the author then, it doesn't matter much; The copyright should be (C) 2010 Canonical Ltd., if you wrote it during paid hours
<pitti> dpm: btw, if you are looking for a home for it, langpack-o-matic might not be the worst one
<didrocks> james_w: hey, who should we ping when an debian branch is out of date? (are they still target testing?)
<didrocks> james_w: the sid branch is uptodate, just lp:debian/package points to testing
<james_w> didrocks: that's launchpad's decision, I'm not entirely sure what the consequences of changing it would be
<didrocks> james_w: no pb, since we can branch from sid. I was just surprized at first :)
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> I would prefer it was the other way, but as I said, I'm not sure what would rely on it pointing to testing
<didrocks> ok, thanks james_w :)
<james_w> didrocks: perhaps you could file a bug against launchpad?
<james_w> we can discuss it there
<james_w> otherwise we will just never know
<didrocks> james_w: "launchpad" itself is the right target task?
<james_w> launchpad-registry I think
<james_w> but launchpad is always fine
<didrocks> ok, filling it and subscribing you, ok?
<dpm> pitti, ah, ok, I'll credit ArneGoetje as the author then. I'm going to put it in the ubuntu-translations project, where we've got a home for such tools
<pitti> nice
<seb128> what is the standard way to run autotools at build time?
<pitti> seb128: I'd call autoreconf -vi
<seb128> pitti, in which changelog target?
<pitti> oh, and then rm -rf autom4te.cache/ please
<seb128> robert-ancell did that
<seb128> common-configure-arch common-configure-indep::
<seb128> 	autoreconf -f -i -s
<pitti> hmm; I think "build" should depend on configure
<pitti> or configure, yes
<pitti> and configure should depend on configure.ac
<pitti> that won't yet catch Makefile.am modifications, though
<seb128> I'm wondering if we should try to use the cdbs autotools-vars.mk
<pitti> seb128: cdbs has builtin support foor that
<pitti> "for"
<seb128> I know we had discussion in the past about the cdbs way to do it though
<seb128> they don't use autoreconf
<seb128> but run autoconf, automake, etc
<pitti> DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOCONF, DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOHEADER, and so on
<seb128> which is less smart than autoreconf
<asac> i had a patch for AUTORECONF at some point ... guess that was list in battle though
<asac> lost
<seb128> asac, if you find it somewhere let me know ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: I just had a look at the evolution-exchange and the only real diff we have is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/437209/ you described as "don't use a Debian specific directory". Do we keep that? I'm not sure to understand the reason?
<didrocks> (well, the diff is ubuntu - debian, should be the contrary no -xxx for us)
<seb128> didrocks, it's about matching the directory used by evolution I think
<seb128> you would need to drop the evolution change too
<didrocks> seb128: I remember to do the same in evolution (we also remove -xxx), but I have no clue why :)
<seb128> and make sure you rebuild everything using this dir
<DASPRiD> didrocks, no pr0ns for us? :/
<seb128> because I don't see the reason to have a distro change there
<didrocks> seb128: ok, I was thinking you made the change in first place, but didn't have the time to have a look at it. I can try to sync and rebuild evolution without it
<seb128> it's another case of debian maintainer doing changes for the sake of doing changes and not being compatible with upstream
<seb128> didrocks, no, I mean what debian is doing is wrong
<seb128> why that directory needs to be changed?
<didrocks> seb128: oh ok, understood now
<didrocks> seb128: so, let's keep that
<seb128> but feel free to open a bug on the bts, maybe the new debian maintainers for it can sort that
<didrocks> made sense to not change upstream, especially for side effects because of hard-coded path :)
<seb128> either it has a sense and should be taken upstream or has none and should be dropped from debian
<didrocks> sure, I'll do that in the same round
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> thanks for the explanation :)
<seb128> yw ;-)
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128 didrocks pitti
<chrisccoulson> how are you all?
<pitti> good, thanks!
<seb128> good, thanks, what about you?
<DASPRiD> very good, thanks
<zyga> hello, anyone seen mvo today?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm good too thanks. a little bit tired though
<seb128> zyga, not yet
<seb128> he might be on swap day or something
<seb128> chrisccoulson, working too much?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've had a couple of late nights this week ;)
<seb128> don't overwork yourself too much ;-)
<Bacta> So which of you knuckle heads violated my laptops UI?
<pitti> !coc | Bacta
<ubot2> Bacta: The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is a community etiquette document to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere, and can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ .  For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct .
<Bacta> coc?
<Bacta> No I don't care about that, I'm just curious about why my window controls were moved to the left
<Bacta> It took an hour to fix
<dpm> hi seb128, I've got two WI on the desktop-translations roundtable we had (https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-desktop-translations-roundtable). I'm not sure that's the best place to put them and make them appear in the burn-down chart. Do you have any existing blueprint for Desktop where I could move them to?
<seb128> dpm, they should show up on our list if they are assigned to people in our team
<dpm> seb128, even if it's a community-m-desktop-* blueprint?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> dpm, I've set the maverick serie goal for it
<seb128> let's see how next WIs refresh goes
<dpm> seb128, ok, thanks, I'll keep an eye on it, then
<pitti> seb128: btw, let me know when I should flush the desktop ones, so that we have a clean start
<seb128> pitti, we shouldn't be far from it now, is it easy to do for you?
<seb128> pitti, ie if you can do it now that would be nice, I might ask you again on tuesday after the meeting though
<geser> pitti (or any other core-dev): https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~geser/ubuntu/maverick/gir-repository/dont_build_gtk_gir/+merge/25762 is ready for sponsoring. It re-adds a drop Ubuntu delta to gir-repository (don't build gtk gir) which is needed as else the build fails to upload.
<seb128> geser, hi
<seb128> geser, the build didn't fail due to that though
<seb128> I've it on my list of things to look at
<geser> seb128: Hi, the give-back a few minutes ago did
<seb128> weird
<seb128> do you know why the previous one failed earlier?
<geser> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gir-repository/0.6.5-6/+build/1736972
<geser> seb128: the first one failed because it didn't detect libsoup (the log didn't tell why) and as a building it in my pbuilder (to check why) succeed I asked in #ubuntu-devel for a give-back (which pitti did)
<seb128> ok, weird
<seb128> I would like to know why the detection failed where the packages got installed
<seb128> geser, I will sponsor your change for now, I had something similar but wanted to debug the other issue before upload, but since this one seems to have went away now...
<geser> seb128: the problem might have been due to zlib1g-dev as the old one didn't have a .pc file and I've seen some builds checking for gnutls failing due to this (and libsoup2.4-dev depends on libgnutls-dev)
<seb128> geser, hum, that makes sense, thanks
<seb128> geser, I'm uploaded your change
<geser> thanks
<seb128> not sure if I should push the diff or let the autoimport deal with it though
<seb128> thank you for fixing the issue
<james_w> push!
<seb128> james_w, I've bad experience with that
<james_w> really?
<seb128> I managed to make autoimport stop for some sources
<seb128> which means you get outdated imports if the next person just upload
<james_w> ah, well that's a bug
<james_w> we should fix it, not work around it
<seb128> and I've no clue how to fix those
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i should probably be disabling csd in firefox at some point shouldn't i? (i think it had issues last cycle)
<seb128> ie to make autoimport work again
<james_w> seb128: report a bug and I will look at it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, right, I will upload csd to maverick today
<didrocks> oh Friday cracky day so? :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - ok, i will get that disabled in firefox too
<seb128> didrocks, it's maverick, whoever is crazy enough to run it deserve the crack breakage ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<didrocks> seb128: heh :-)
<seb128> I'm doing my merges on lucid without installing
<seb128> it should tell you a bit about maverick state ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i see tracker no longer builds on maverick
<seb128> james_w, bug against what?
<seb128> james_w, I'm not even sure if that's not my who acted dump there
<seb128> i.e is the autoimport supposed to update things when the bzr and archive are different?
<james_w> seb128: bug against 'udd', or anything I'm subscribed to really :-)
<james_w> seb128: I don't understand your other statements
<seb128> james_w, I've commited things manually to the bzr
<seb128> then did uploads without commiting
<seb128> is the autoimport supposed to work on those cases?
<james_w> yes
<seb128> or the fact to manually commit put you in manual mode?
<seb128> james_w, lp:ubuntu/libgnome-desktop
<seb128> ups
<pitti> seb128: yes, I can do it now (sorry, was off for lunch)
<james_w> when you commit and push as well as upload it will check that what you uploaded is the same as what is committed
<james_w> however, that's the most fragile part of the code
<seb128> james_w, I mean lp:ubuntu/libgnome-keyring
<james_w> but I need to know when it happens so that I can make it more robust
<seb128> is the one I screwed
<pitti> seb128: thanks for sponsoring gir
<seb128> pitti, you're welcome, thank you for dealing with the workitems tracker ;-)
<james_w> seb128: that's odd, I'll have a look thanks
<seb128> james_w, do you want a bug? against udd? thanks for looking to it!
<seb128> james_w, I'm sure I did something stupid but I don't know what and how to fix it
<james_w> seb128: no, I think you just triggered a bug, so thanks!
<seb128> james_w, thank you ;-)
<pitti> seb128: flushed, copied back, reports regenerating now
<seb128> pitti, you rock, thanks
<james_w> seb128: ah, do you happen to remember how you did http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/libgnome-keyring/maverick/revision/5 ?
<james_w> do you just drop the new .orig.tar.gz in to the parent dir, and then dch -v whatever?
<seb128> james_w, bug #583770
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 583770 in udd "lp:ubuntu/libgnome-keyring ubuntu auto-import is broken (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/583770
<james_w> thanks
<seb128> james_w, I'm not sure what I did exactly there, I think I mixed workflow for debian dir only in the vcs against source import
<james_w> ok
<seb128> ie I worked once in the directory as it was a debian dir only
<james_w> do you know about "bzr merge-upstream"?
<seb128> I managed to revert upstream changes in the diff.gz
<seb128> yes, I use it for dx update
<james_w> great
<seb128> I just think I got confused between this one and screwed an update
<pitti> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html
<james_w> it's a shame it doesn't currently work for debian-only, then you could use it for everything and avoid that
<seb128> ie I did checkout the import and worked on it later as it was another desktop debian only dir
<seb128> then I realized I reverted changes in the diff.gz
<seb128> and did another upload
<james_w> ah, ok
<seb128> but the auto-import didn't cope with it
<james_w> I need to think for a minute to see if we can handle this, but I may have to cause it to re-import those uploads so that they contain the pristine-tar data
<seb128> feel free to overwrite the whole thing with auto imports
<seb128> the few commits I did were broken anyway
<seb128> I will do better with the next upload :-)
<james_w> seb128: thanks, I'll think over lunch anyway
<james_w> thanks for helping to improve the system :-)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> pitti, https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=karmic
<seb128> should that one be cleaned?
<seb128> what about the gdm one on https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa
<pitti> seb128: atasmart is in proposed now, so it can go
<pitti> seb128: gdm> same
<seb128> pitti, ok, cleaning those
<seb128> thanks
<desrt> good morning everyone
<seb128> hello desrt
<desrt> pitti: i see you just can't bring yourself to leave this place :)
<pitti> desrt: I just love this place too much :)
<desrt> seb128: i was talking yesterday with robert and chris.  chris, particularly, thinks that dconf should drop from universe/debian
<seb128> pitti, the trendline seems to need an update for the new schedule
<seb128> ie 10.10.10
<seb128> ups no
<pitti> seb128: that requires fixing the milestones in LP
<didrocks> good morning desrt
<desrt> seb128: based on the fact that it hasn't been packaged in 2 years, has approximately 7 active users on popcon and when you start it up it spews a tonne of deprecation warnings then crashes
<desrt> didrocks: hey
<seb128> pitti, seems I mistead the legend
<desrt> seb128: they wanted to defer to you to talk to the debian guys, though
<seb128> desrt, chrisccoulson?
<desrt> seb128: yes
<seb128> I'm not interested by talking to the debian guys
<seb128> I think we should not hijack an existing namepsace
<desrt> 00:12 < chrisccoulson> the existing dconf in the archive really should just be  removed, it hasn't been updated for over 2 years now
<seb128> namespace
<desrt> 00:13 < chrisccoulson> ok, i will check to make sure nothing is build-depending  on it and ask an archive admin to remove and blacklist it
<desrt> 00:13 < robert_ancell> I'll get the packaging working and get seb to check this  out, he's more on the pulse of Debian
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i haven't done that yet. seb128 - what do you think?
<seb128> you can try
<seb128> I'm not interested to try
<seb128> I think it's wrong
<seb128> it will lead to issues
<james_w> you can remove dconf, but for Debian at least, you have to wait a release cycle until you can take the name
<pitti> will the binary packages really conflict?
<desrt> if you think it's wrong then probably we should just not do it, then
<seb128> having 2 differents things using the same namespace leads to issues
<pitti> isn't it all just libraries?
<desrt> pitti: the binary packages will not
<desrt> pitti: it's more about the source package name
<desrt> i suggested we just call the new source package 'dconf-source' or something
<seb128> I would be fine renaming both
<pitti> desrtconf?
<seb128> to avoid apt-get source dconf giving the wrong one
<desrt> pitti: sure :p
<chrisccoulson> is the name an issue? i thought the main issue is that the current dconf ships conflicting binaries
<desrt> seb128: ya.  that's the other issue.
<seb128> I'm a bit reluctant to reuse a name for something different
<desrt> seb128: i have a sneaking suspicion that the 7 people on popcon who installed dconf recently thought that they were getting my dconf :p
<desrt> chrisccoulson: oh right.  that too.
<desrt> seb128: dconf will have /usr/bin/dconf
<seb128> it does?
<desrt> same story as epiphany here, i guess?
<seb128> sucks
<chrisccoulson> so, we could work around the name (wasn't "d-conf" suggested yesterday?), but the conflicting binaries is more difficult
<pitti> desrt: oh, is that a gconftool-like thing?
<desrt> pitti: ya
<desrt> pitti: with interface like the current 'gsettings' and 'gdbus' tools (ie: git-inspired)
<desrt> dconf get ...
<desrt> dconf set ...
<desrt> rumour has it that 'gdbus' will be installed as '/usr/bin/dbus' soon
<desrt> looks like there's no problem there, fortunately
<pitti> /usr/bin/gdbus I hope?
<desrt> nah.  just 'dbus'
<desrt> by request of dbus maintainers
<seb128> we should maybe drop current dconf and use the namespace for the new one
<chrisccoulson> that's what i thought. the current dconf hasn't been touched since august 2007
<desrt> seb128: is it possible that we drop the current package and use a different name for the packages at least for now?
<desrt> like 'desrtconf' or whatever
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure anybody would miss it ;)
<desrt> then in a year or two, we rename the source package?
<desrt> just to avoid the trouble you were concerned about...
<seb128> I think it's not so much of an issue for sources
<pitti> I'm all for dropping dconf, the only downside that I see that this would prevent us from being able to keep the new dconf in sync with debian
<seb128> would be an issue for binaries
<seb128> i.e like epiphany
<Laney> sounds like something to coordinate with debian
<seb128> you use the game
<seb128> and then get the browser and no game after updaging
<seb128> upgrading
<desrt> heh
<seb128> Laney, right, cf backlog
<desrt> this presupposes that you use the game
<desrt> nobody does that :p
<seb128> lol
<chrisccoulson> that's why firefox has all the transitional packages, to handle upgrades where binary package names change ;)
<desrt> (except people who were trying to install the browser...)
<pitti> would it be so bad to call it d-conf in both D and U for now?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well it stays firefox for those
<desrt> pitti: aww.  i liked the desrtconf name :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - it does now
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I mean all the variants are still the firefox browser
<seb128> you didn't hijack a game names firefox
<chrisccoulson> ah, yeah, true
<pitti> desrt: you could also call it d#conf or dâ­conf :)
<chrisccoulson> or ÉuoÉp
<desrt> chrisccoulson: WIN
<ccheney> hi
<mclasen> desrt: talking about names...is ca.desrt.dconf the final busname ?
<desrt> mclasen: this is difficult.
<desrt> obvious alternatives being org.gnome org.freedesktop and org.gtk
<desrt> all of them having politics attached
<desrt> totally doesn't matter as far as i'm concerned
<desrt> and it's very easy to change in the future
<desrt> the dbus API is private
<seb128> chrisccoulson, could you open a debian bug on dconf?
<seb128> asking for a rename or get it cleaned
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - ok, will do
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<desrt> thanks, guys
<desrt> probably much less confusing this way, in the long run
<didrocks> seb128: do you know if this is still valid (http://paste.ubuntu.com/437340/)? Debian doesn't have it
<seb128> didrocks, do we still build out of the srcdit?
<seb128> srcdir
<seb128> didrocks, or said differently, do we have a po/*.pot after build
<seb128> didrocks, debian doesn't need it, it's for rosetta import
<didrocks> seb128: I see nothing in that regard in debian/rules, I guess there is no other file when you can change srcdir?
<didrocks> seb128: I'll have a testbuild without it and see
<seb128> didrocks, ok, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, I think it used to build 2 variants
<seb128> one hildon one and a normal one
<seb128> or something
<seb128> so it was building out of the srcdir
<seb128> it might not apply now
<didrocks> seb128: you're welcome, I'll have a look at debian/rules for the version you added that to see how it was described in debian/rules
<seb128> try without it and see if the pot is there
<didrocks> ok, I see how it was on debian/rules, with two binary packages and two builds. No we don't have that. I'll confirm by a build
<seb128> cool
<momelod> Greetings channel
<momelod> Im trying to setup a wireless internet stick I got from my cellular provider.
<momelod> I have defined a connections in NetworkManager->edit connections->mobile broadband
<momelod> but how do i launch it? when i click on network manager I dont see it listed as an available connection..
<didrocks> momelod: this is a developer channel, for support, please see on #ubuntu
<momelod> thanks
<Amaranth> seb128: So I was thinking of taking advantage of the multiple tarball support of 3.0 source packages and putting compiz, compiz-plugins-main, and compiz-plugins-extra in one source package
<Amaranth> seb128: Then we can more easily make sure they are updated at the same time and partition groups of plugins however we want (used vs unused, for example)
<ccheney> grr, BOA called claiming i hadn't paid my mortgage, they screwed up their records and can see it themselves when i called in :-(
 * kenvandine imports 22728 photos into shotwell
<kenvandine> lets see how long this takes
<ccheney> heh my iphone is giving itself gsm interference noise
<LaserJock> didrocks (whenever you get a chance): was there any work done on porting netbook-launcher to liblauncher 0.3?
<LaserJock> kenvandine: are you using Lucid's shotwell?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> looks like it will take a while, it appears to preview every photo on import
<kenvandine> using a ton of CPU, but it is remarkable how low the memory usage is
<kenvandine> 34m RSS and 236% cpu usage
<dobey> kenvandine: 236% cpu?
<kenvandine> hehe... yeah
<dobey> kenvandine: have you like, perfected quantum computing?
<kenvandine> impressive huh?
<dobey> your cpu is actually in 3 different dimensions, and it's using 100% in 2 of them, and 36% in the third? :)
<kenvandine> apparently
<kenvandine> this is going to take a while...
<dobey> heh
<didrocks> LaserJock: not from what I know. I'll upload it next week to maverick, maybe the right time to port that?
<seb128> Amaranth, hum, not sure, the plan was to get in sync with debian
<seb128> didrocks, hum, alacarte, why did you drop the properties change?
<didrocks> seb128: ooppss, miss it so, will reupload
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: I tried the review with bzr merge-package maybe I miss something in the workflow
<didrocks> sorry about that
<seb128> no worry
<Amaranth> seb128: The guy I'm pretty sure handles compiz in Debian had the same idea but wanted to wait to figure out git submodules first
<Amaranth> Which I assuming means rolling his own orig.tar.gz
<Amaranth> s/I/I'm/
<Amaranth> seb128: Debian still ships compiz-gtk, I don't think getting in sync is a good idea unless it involves them making changes to get more in line with our packaging of compiz
<LaserJock> didrocks: you're doing a new netbook-launcher or liblauncher upload next week?
<seb128> Amaranth, well if it works for them it should work for us?
<LaserJock> didrocks: the porting might take me a while to do, at least it wasn't trivial when I looked during lucid
<seb128> Amaranth, really is that we have nobody maintaining compiz and we do a poor job at it
<didrocks> LaserJock: not sure about next week, I have already tons of things on my plate right now. If you want to do it, I'll happily sponsors you
<seb128> Amaranth, we would win to share work with debian
<Amaranth> The packaging side is almost no work
<Amaranth> The bug triage is the work and unless we drop all of our patches that isn't going to change
<seb128> dealing with bugs is the work
<LaserJock> didrocks: well, do you have anything already planned for non-unity maverick uploads? I don't know what the current status is
<seb128> they seem to do a better job that us to it recently
<LaserJock> didrocks: I'm happy to start hacking away on porting it
<didrocks> LaserJock: not right now, uploading unity to maverick will take me a long time already
<LaserJock> didrocks: ok, I just didn't want to duplicate or miss work you're planning on
<Amaranth> seb128: So you want to drop our patches and just sync from Debian?
<didrocks> LaserJock: no pb, just keep me in touch :)
<LaserJock> didrocks: k, will do
<seb128> Amaranth, I want to investigate whether it would be doable and a good idea
<seb128> Amaranth, or at least be back in sync for all the side packages, ccsm, -gconf, etc
<Amaranth> seb128: I'm fine with getting back in sync with Debian for the side packages, we don't patch them or anything
<Amaranth> seb128: But we modify compiz quite a bit
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks for the feedback
<Amaranth> Although since development seems to be moving to mutter I suppose we don't need to modify it to start faster, it's already 10x faster than mutter for that
<seb128> Amaranth, not my experience there
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I uploaded gtk csd in maverick
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you might want to upload firefox to get decoration back for it
 * kenvandine heads out to lunch, bbiab
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks, i will disable that in firefox later then
<pitti> good night everyone, have a nice weekend!
<didrocks> enjoy your weekend pitti!
<didrocks> kenvandine: do you know of any documentation about the batch_update() method in desktopcouch?
<kenvandine> i don't
<didrocks> ok, worth a try :)
<kenvandine> didrocks, my ultimate source is #ubuntuone :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: sure, I'll delegate that for next week though :)
<cjohnston> kenvandine: any further thoughts on bug 580067?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 580067 in gwibber "twitter fails to download messages, sometimes (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/580067
<kenvandine> cjohnston, ryan was going to look at it... he was very interested in it
<kenvandine> he is at google I/O though...
<cjohnston> ahh
<kenvandine> he has some suspicions, and has been looking for someone that could repro it
<kenvandine> so glad you found it :)
<cjohnston> I am able to reproduce it daily.. heh   without any effort on my part
<cjohnston> I'm glad I don't live by twitter
<kenvandine> cjohnston, ryan thinks it might be something related to the way we compute the last message we downloaded
<cjohnston> hmm//
<kenvandine> so it fails to fetch more messages because it is trying to get messages that doesn't exist
<cjohnston> gotcha
<kenvandine> which he had suspected was a bug before you found this, but could never prove it
<cjohnston> well.. then i guess we should hope that is what it is
<kenvandine> yeah :)
<kenvandine> i'll bug him about it
<cjohnston> lol
<cjohnston> you know where to find me
<jcastro> kenvandine: http://sjoerd.luon.net/posts/2010/05/telepathy_and_vp8/
<jcastro> YEAH!
<kenvandine> jcastro, woot!
<ccheney> Riddell, ping
<ccheney> Riddell, i just saw that kubuntu-desktop doesn't pull in ttf-liberation, which is not so good
<ccheney> Riddell, openoffice.org defaults to 'Times New Roman' which is not metric compatible with that, but due to not having any metric compatible fonts on the disk it ends up using it anyway
<ccheney> er sorry
<ccheney> Riddell, i meant the above to say since ttf-liberation is not installed which is metric compatible with 'Times New Roman' then it falls back to 'Times' which then falls back to 'Nimbus Roman No9 L' which is the font not metric compatible with 'Times New Roman'
<ccheney> Riddell, it appears ubuntu, xubuntu, lubuntu all pull ttf-liberation in directly probably due to the metric issue
<ccheney> Riddell, it might be a good idea to pull it in for 10.04.1 as well due to problems working with documents on kubuntu due to that (if allowable)
<ccheney> Riddell, i haven't gotten any bugs reports about this issue afaik but saw it when testing another bug under kubuntu
<ccheney> Riddell, if you would like i can file a bug about kubuntu-meta
<ccheney> s/about/against
<ccheney> hmm example-content is also missing from kubuntu
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-22
<ccheney> OOo master mirror server apparently died so 3.2.1rc2 is delayed :-\
<Riddell> ccheney: hmm, I don't know if we can add packages as a SRU.  pitti is it allowed?
<bdrung> new packages in debian will be synced automatically? what to do with sync requests for new debian packages?
<Laney> eventually. If you want them done now then you should ask an AA directly
<latenite> hi anyone in here have clue how to set "abcde" so artists get their own subdirectory??
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-23
<bdrung> Laney: i was working on the sponsors queue. the question is if we need to process these request or can just close it with "will be done automatically"
<Laney> bdrung: The advice currently is to subscribe the AAs, so I'd do that
<fredreichbier> hey there
<fredreichbier> i'm currently doing a StatusNotifierWatcher implementation in Python. I was going to follow this spec: http://www.notmart.org/misc/statusnotifieritem/, though application-indicator doesn't seem to implement exactly this spec, rather a little variation with some kde-specific names. Can I read about this kde-y spec somewhere?
<bochecha> hi, how do I clone the unity code?
<bochecha> I'm not really savvy of bzr, and this is what I get: bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:unity": unity has no default branch.
<russellgee> bzr branchÂ lp:~canonical-dx-team/unity/trunk
<bochecha> oh, I tried lp:unity, I thought it was something that worked for all software in Launchpad
<bochecha> thanks :)
<russellgee> np ;)
<bochecha> the unity build script checks for clutter >= 1.0
<bochecha> I heard there were some incompatibilities between clutter versions 1.0 and 1.2, will that be a problem to run unity if my systems has clutter 1.2?
<didrocks> bochecha: clutter 1.2 is fine :) (hey o/)
<bochecha> salut didrocks :)
<bochecha> and thanks
<didrocks> bochecha: comment tu vas ?
<bochecha> I was afraid I'd have to build one more library that would conflict with a package in the official Fedora repositories ^^
<bochecha> Ã§a va, et toi ?
<didrocks> bochecha: Ã§a va :) LÃ , Julie va me gueuler dessus si je passe la soirÃ©e sur l'ordi, si tu veux qu'on parle de unity, pas de pb la semaine prochaine, quand tu veux :)
<didrocks> bochecha: n'hÃ©site pas Ã  m'appeler ! ou pinguer sur irc
<didrocks> bochecha: il te faudra aussi les indicateurs pour unity comme je te le disais
<bochecha> oui, j'ai vu
<bochecha> le autogen.sh de unity m'en a parlÃ©
<bochecha> by the way, the autogen.sh script for unity complains about not finding unity-misc, but I couldn't find anything about it on Launchpad :-/
<didrocks> bochecha: oh, we maybe forgot to push itâ¦ unity-misc is the old systray compatibility library
<didrocks> bochecha: one sec
<bochecha> no need to do it right away, I still have at least 2 packages to build, so I won't get to needing it tonight ;)
<didrocks> https://edge.launchpad.net/~canonical-dx-team/+archive/une
<didrocks> https://edge.launchpad.net/~canonical-dx-team/+archive/une/+files/libunity-misc_0.1.0.orig.tar.gz
<didrocks> bochecha: ^
<bochecha> thx
<didrocks> going to have my dinner now, talk to you next week :)
<bochecha> sure, or at the UP on saturday
<didrocks> (this one will be deprecated soon btw)
<didrocks> great ;)
<TheMuso> Good morning.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-16
<pitti> Good morning
<Braiam> pitti: but it's still dark
<pitti> not here :) (6:42 am)
<Braiam> 00:42 here :P
<cdbs> Good morning pitti, how was UDS?
<pitti> yay oneiric
<jasoncwarner> Good Morning, Europeans!
<Braiam> jasoncwarner: a localized greeting...
 * TheMuso waves.
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
 * TheMuso is only on for a short while.
<jasoncwarner> hey TheMuso....uneventful trip home?
 * Braiam gives a power source to TheMuso 
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner: Very much so thankfully, unfortunately I think I caught a little something from Robert, although I don't think I got it nearly as bad as he did.
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso: I hear ya. I'm not feeling swell today either. oldest has something...I'm being attacked at every turn!
<TheMuso> I feel much better today then I did on Saturday, and ven Saturday I didn't feel *that* bad.
<TheMuso> I've just had a slight temperature, slightly sore throat, and a slight cough, the first 2 having now been thrown off.
<TheMuso> A couple of good nights of sleep should help kill the rest.
<pitti> hey jasoncwarner, hey TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey pitti.
<pitti> jasoncwarner: it'll get better with each UDS
<pitti> after 5 or so of those, your immune system should be trained a lot better against germs from other parts of the world :)
<jasoncwarner> morning pitti...you mean my immune system will get stronger? Strong enough to fight off this ubuflu I keep hearing about?
<pitti> I used to bring home Ubuflu pretty much each time, but seems I survived three in a row now (plus sprints)
<pitti> get well soon, guys!
<jasoncwarner> Ok...new meta-goal for 14.04: no desktop team member comes home sick!
<jasoncwarner> pie in the face goal?
<jasoncwarner> ;)
<pitti> deal!
<TheMuso> I'm usually one who can survive the week without getting something, however I don't think I got enough sleep, period, making me vulnarable.
<TheMuso> vulnerable
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso, oh, you've had ubuflu too?
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, good thanks (although, i think i'm starting to get ubuflu)
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<pitti> meh, ubuflu seems to have hit hard again :/
<pitti> I'm quite fine, thanks! just need to get used again to getting up at 6
<chrisccoulson> i don't like getting up early ;)
<chrisccoulson> although, i was up at 5am this morning
<chrisccoulson> my daughter seems to think that when the sun comes up in the morning, it is time to wake up
<chrisccoulson> i wish i could tell her that 5am is not a normal time for anybody to get up ;)
<pitti> install blinds :)
<chrisccoulson> we have a blackout blind in her room already, but she still just seems to wake up when it gets light outside
<chrisccoulson> perhaps it's coincidence ;)
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Not really, I've mostly shaken what I did have however.
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, ca va?
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti! I'm fine thanks, and you?
<pitti> didrocks: I'm great as well; so you didn't catch the ubuflu then?
<pitti> great to hear that it didn't affect everyone
<didrocks> pitti: no, seems I'm safe after 2 weeks ;) I had to run through all paris airport to catch my second flight ( 6 minutes to run through the whole airport), but I just get my flight
<didrocks> pitti: are you affected? :(
<pitti> didrocks: I'm not, fortunately
<pitti> I had some troubles with the train as well, but in the end it was only 1:15 hours delay, so not too bad
<pitti> didrocks: question about the CD size thing: splitting out unused compiz plugins, would that be a WI for smspillaz or for you?
<Sweetshark> Good moooorning, desktoppers!
<didrocks> pitti: it would be mine, feel free to add it
<pitti> didrocks: thanks
<didrocks> hey Sweetshark
<pitti> hey Sweetshark, good morning!
<pitti> Sweetshark: did you catch your flight?
<Sweetshark> pitti: Yes, caught my flight.
<pitti> jasoncwarner: are you fine with drafting https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-default-apps ? I wasn't in the session, so I'd have some trouble with drafting it
<Sweetshark> Flying on row 13 (labeled row 14) on a Friday, 13th while there was a late-game "default apps" session going on at UDS I was certain that at least LibreOffice would be kicked from the CD. What happened?
<Sweetshark> ^- pitti
<pitti> Sweetshark: I haven't been in the session either
<pitti> Sweetshark: but I could certainly envision shipping the full non-crippled LibO on the DVD, and not shipping it at all on the CD; the prerequisite for this is of course to make the DVD actually useful, and promote it more
<pitti> Sweetshark: right now the DVD is a 4.2 GB monster, we want to reduce it to ~ 1.5 GB
<pitti> but I think this should be considered/discussed carefully, not decided in a knee-jerk reaction
<pitti> Right now we have to ship only some parts because we just can't fit the whole LibO on the CD
<Sweetshark> pitti: yep, it was funny to see at UDS how the first reaction to that idea was by most devs
<pitti> but then again this also makes it quite a compelling sale: "Look, we can provide all this on just one CD"
<pitti> and personally I'm quite proud that we managed to keep this rather small limit over the years
<Sweetshark> something along the lines of "*blink* you wanna solve our space-issues, by delivering less?"
<pitti> while still provinding so much sw
<pitti> Sweetshark: what's your feeling about what we should do?
<pitti> i. e. do people generally complain about the things that are missing, or do they appreciate having a reduced LibO in the default install?
<pitti> Sweetshark: right now https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-cdspace won't include a "drop LibO" WI; we still have lots of other opportunities
<Sweetshark> pitti: my feeling is nobody really complains about base missing, but they are annoyed when this breaks stuff in apps that we do ship (like bibliography in writer)
<pitti> there's also things like math, clipart, etc?
<Sweetshark> personally, I would be sorry for calc vanishing as a starter from the dash in the default installation for example
<pitti> I think we already discussed that, and you said that it would create quite some bugs as well
<pitti> as these are so tightly integrated
<pitti> so I'd rather not break it that way either
<Sweetshark> math is heavily integrated and used inside of writer, openclipart is not needed on the CD IMHO (do we ship that? /me checks the deps)
<Sweetshark> hmmm "libreoffice suggests openclipart-libreoffice", but that does not include it on the CD right?
<pitti> right
<Sweetshark> we could drop libreoffice-filters-mobiledev maybe ...
 * vish thinks kenvandine made an excellent point; if LibO is on the Live CD, it gives an opportunity for users to actually test the various replacements Ubuntu offers rather than saying 'you can download and install stuff'
<pitti> vish: that's why I like it as well
<pitti> Sweetshark: that's just 92 kB; if it's not generally useful, we can certainly drop it, but we have bigger fish to fry, I think
<pitti> Sweetshark: oh, it's in universe, thus we already don't ship it by default
<vish> do we need games on the CD ? if every bit counts, lets remove those.. ;)
<pitti> but sudoku! *cough*
<vish> install from SC ;)
<pitti> vish: in previous cycles we already threw out most of them, but we have some 5 remaining, yes
<vish> pitti: Games are ,IMO, something nice to have as an extra, but I dont thing people would be switching to Ubuntu based on the games we provide :)
<vish> but, just mentioning if we are in desperate need of space..
<pitti> I agree
 * Sweetshark loves his littles Starcraft2 on Ubuntu.
<chrisccoulson> wow, bug 783307 is useful :/
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 783307 in firefox "e mail send goes nowhere" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/783307
<pitti> chrisccoulson: i no type passwrod correct
<chrisccoulson> pitti - heh, that's what i was thinking ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: reassign it to emacs -- unlike ffox, that at least has an MUA :)
<didrocks> pitti: feel free to add WI for me on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-loco-cds as well :)
<pitti> didrocks: I haven't drafted that one yet, but I'll certainly need your experience there :0
<pitti> meh ESMILEY, :)
<didrocks> heh
 * didrocks adds ESMILEY to the man page ;)
<seb128> hey desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<pitti> bonjour seb128, ca va?
<pitti> ooh, door bell -- my new computer desk is arriving!
 * pitti will be glad to stop sitting on the kitchen desk on the laptop
<didrocks> oh nice :) Photos will be required! ;)
<Sweetshark> pitti: beware! last time i thought my notbook was arriving it was Jahovas wittnesses ...
<Sweetshark> exactly: pics or it didnt happen
<didrocks> can anyone accept https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-dx-o-compiz for oneiric? (just proposed it, I'll add some WI, but smspillaz will be drafting it)
<rodrigo__> morning
<didrocks> good morning rodrigo__!
<rodrigo__> everyone back at home safely?
<rodrigo__> hey didrocks
<seb128> hey rodrigo__
<rodrigo__> hi seb128
<rodrigo__> are you all still exhausted, or is it just me? :)
<seb128> it's just you :p
<seb128> but I slept 12 hours on saturday night and same this night
<rodrigo__> ok, I guess I'm too old
<seb128> with a small nap on saturday
<seb128> so it's like 25 hours sleep during the weekend ;-)
<rodrigo__> ah, you cheater, I haven't slept that much
<rodrigo__> just 7/8 hours each night
<seb128> that might be why ;-)
<rodrigo__> yeah
<seb128> didrocks, did you manage to get your flight with less than one hour in paris btw?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah \o/ after an heroic sprint to got through the whole cdg airport (from one terminal extreme to the opposite one) in less than 6 minutes
<didrocks> seb128: because, of course, we were delayed by 10 minutes
<seb128> heh
<didrocks> and then, we got to the arrival gate by car (15 minutes)
<seb128> didrocks, no security check to do then?
<didrocks> security check included :)
<didrocks> s/car/bus
<didrocks> but I really didn't want to wait for 4 hours for the next plane :)
<seb128> didrocks, nothing like a good sprint to catch a plane :p
<seb128> I'm sure that woke you up at least ;-)
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<rodrigo__> :)
<didrocks> seb128: oh right! then, a lot of clothes on me to avoid catching a cold for the final flight. After stricking to not get the ubuflu after 2 weeks, that would have been a shame :-)
<seb128> didrocks, glad that you manage then ;-)
<seb128> +d
<didrocks> so am I :-)
<didrocks> seb128: and you? uneventful flight?
<didrocks> (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-dx-o-bugs-triage-and-workflow ready for getting approval for oneiric)
<rodrigo__> yeah, there's been less ubuflu-affected people this time, afaik, did we talk to the OMS to get a vaccine? :)
<rodrigo__> OMS or World Health Org I guess is in English
<rodrigo__> so, now's a good time to move to oneiric, right?
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, we were really early at the airport so we use the lounge card and go breakfast there, and the almost 2 hours in frankfurt was plenty of time, I didn't have to go through security for once so it took only half an hour to go through
<seb128> rodrigo__, depends of how advanturous you are, pitti does update around this time usually
<seb128> rodrigo__, what I tend to do is add the oneiric source and apt-get install what I need
<seb128> rather than dist-upgrading
<rodrigo__> seb128, I guess I can just cherry-pick the updates
<rodrigo__> yeah, right
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, how are you?
<seb128> that sort of give me an oneiric desktop with natty stack
<seb128> which is what I need, stable system and cracky desktop
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, I'm fine, what about you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm not too bad thanks. bit tired after my daughter woke up at 5am though
<seb128> hehe
<rodrigo__> hi chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi rodrigo__, how are you?
<rodrigo__> chrisccoulson, exhausted, but in 1 piece , and you?
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo__, yeah, pretty much the same :)
<rodrigo__> heh
<chrisccoulson> it's nice to be back in my nice comfortable office chair :)
<dpm> good morning desktop people, everyone had a nice flight back?
<chrisccoulson> hi dpm
<dpm> hey chrisccoulson :)
<chrisccoulson> i started work on desktop-o-firefox-translations-in-launchpad already this weekend ;)
<dpm> yeah, I saw you updated the blueprint \o/
<rodrigo__> hey dpm
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, dpm
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<dpm> buenas rodrigo__, salut didrocks!
<rodrigo__> dpm, so, you were able to wake up early and not miss your flight then? :)
<dpm> rodrigo__, yeah, I managed to get 2 hours of sleep and make it in the end ;)
<seb128> hey dpm
<rodrigo__> dpm, you're a brave man :-)
<chrisccoulson> that is hardcore!
<chrisccoulson> i think i would struggle to do that on 2 hours sleep
<dpm> rodrigo__, not sure about that, but at least I made it for the flight ;)
<dpm> bonjour seb128
<pitti> hey rodrigo__
<rodrigo__> hi pitti
<rodrigo__> pitti was the luckiest, afaik, with his 8 hours train home :-)
<pitti> seb128, rodrigo__: I upgraded to oneiric this morning; some java package failed to configure, otherwise it went well
<rodrigo__> pitti, oh, ok, maybe I'll dist-upgrade then
<pitti> rodrigo__: we can pull you out of the swamp if something bad happens :)
<rodrigo__> :)
<rodrigo__> ok then, trying
<seb128> brave you, I will just cherry pick updates for now ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo__, btw one of the GNOME3 ppa update screwed my natty GNOME3 vm some days ago, I can pick any session I just get a dialog saying it's not a valid session and it sends me back to the login screen
<pitti> seb128: it's really not that different; the main change is the perl transition, which cjwatson by and large completed
<rodrigo__> seb128, yes, still some patches disabled in that package, will work on updating g-session in oneiric this week
<seb128> rodrigo__, ok, well before that it managed to start the gnome-shell session, now I can't log in any session
<seb128> pitti, right, until we get a new xorg stock or a new upstart or whatever and you find that your system doesn't start or xorg doesn't work ;-)
<cdbs> didrocks: Hey there, thanks for the reply! Well, Unity in Oneiric is currently (partially) broken, bug #778950 , can you look at the linked branch when you are free? Thanks!
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 778950 in unity "Unity in Oneiric should depend on dconf-gsettings-backend" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/778950
<seb128> but no point to argue, it's good that we have people dist-upgrading, I will just cherry pick updates desktop updates while I'm on merges
<pitti> seb128: oh, and the keyring dialog looking ugly as it's already gtk3 :)
<seb128> pitti, not only the keyring I guess, gedit as well :p
<seb128> or eog
<pitti> seb128: I'm fine being the guinea pig here; I think I'll be able to rescue myself in the bad cases :0
<pitti> seb128: gedit seems to be gtk2 here
<didrocks> cdbs: I don't think it's unity which should depends on it, but the gsettings binding rather, isn't it?
 * pitti -> building new computer table, bbl
<seb128> pitti, hum, it's dep-wait indeed
<seb128> pitti, have fun
<cdbs> didrocks: Gsettings could use gsettings with gconf as well, I suppose. So maybe no
<seb128> didrocks, it's anything shipping a schemas I think
<seb128> didrocks, same as with gconf
<didrocks> seb128: oh ok, not libdconf0 then?
<seb128> didrocks, I need to check but I think they added a dh_gsettings which will add that to Depends:misc, but we need rebuilds for that
<cdbs> didrocks: we need both libdconf0 and dconf-gsettings-backend
<didrocks> seb128: agreed on that plan rather
<didrocks> cdbs: see rather adding the misc by the debhelper script ^^
<cdbs> :o
<didrocks> cdbs: as well, unity is FTBFS right now in oneiric, I'll bundle the patch with dx after next SRU which should come this week
<rodrigo__> seb128, oh, no session at all?
<seb128> rodrigo__, they just bail out saying that the session is not a valid name
<rodrigo__> hmm, ok
<didrocks> this is when there is no .session file found
<cdbs> didrocks: well yeah, I know about that ftbfs
<cdbs> blame GCC 4.6 :(
<didrocks> cdbs: we have a patch somewhere
<didrocks> not sure it's still applying though
<cjwatson> pitti: feel free to fix the remaining desktopy bits of the perl transition :)
<cjwatson> (i.e. build failures)
<rodrigo__> seb128, do you have gnome-session-common installed?
<seb128> hey cjwatson, how are you?
<cdbs> cjwatson: you ROCK, considering the fact that you did the transitions during UDS and even during weekends
<seb128> rodrigo__, I will have to check, I upgraded using update-manager and I can't log in now and I didn't figure how to switch to a vt in virtualbox
<seb128> rodrigo__, ctrl-alt-f<n> are not locked in virtualbox, they switch real vt
<rodrigo__> seb128, oh, for that switch to fullscreen and then CTRL-ALT-F? works
<seb128> no
<rodrigo__> I think that works
<seb128> they switch vt on the system
<rodrigo__> oh
<seb128> rodrigo__, but don't bother, I will just do GNOME3 on oneiric now
<seb128> the vm was just to not break my system during UDS
<didrocks> cdbs: rejecting your merge for now, will approve if we see that it shouldn't be handle on a higher level (debhelper)
<cdbs> seb128: I can't see dh_gsettings in ubuntu (right now), maybe it needs a sync/merge from Debian?
<didrocks> cdbs: btw, I think I drafted most of your blueprint, once ready (following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto), think to set it pending approval
<seb128> cdbs, could be
<cdbs> didrocks: thanks a lot!
<didrocks> yw :)
<cjwatson> seb128: hey, fine thanks, did you recover from your long-haul flight? ;-)
<seb128> cdbs, didrocks: you should add a depends on dconf-gsettings-backend as a workaround maybe until dh_gsettings land, it's in the dh debian git but it might take a bit to land in debian and then ubuntu
<cjwatson> cdbs: heh, was just prodding at it by way of something to do :)
<didrocks> seb128: well, unity FTBFS right now, so no point to rush that in
<seb128> cjwatson, yeah, I managed to get over my jetlag easily this time it seems ;-)
<cjwatson> dh_installgsettings is in Debian as of debhelper 8.1.3
<cdbs> Right now on my Oneiric system over 30 packages are held back every time I upgrade
<cjwatson> which is already in oneiric
<cdbs> all because of build failures :(
<didrocks> nice, so dh7 maybe doesn't call it
<cjwatson> $ grep gsettings /chroot/sid/usr/bin/dh
<cjwatson>         dh_installgsettings
<cjwatson> does too :-)
<didrocks> humâ¦ weird, I'll give it a deeper look
<didrocks> thanks cjwatson :)
<didrocks> first, focus on second SRU and then fixing the FTBFS this week in oneiric
<seb128> cjwatson, oh right, thanks
<seb128> cdbs, right, upgrading before the end of UDS is usually not the best idea if you want to avoid issues
<cdbs> didrocks: The dconf0 split happened recently, does installgsettings recognize that well? I doubt so, considering the fact that dh hasn't been updated since
<seb128> not that you will avoid issues after UDS, but at least now people will be available to fix those
<seb128> cdbs, they happened both on in early april in debian
<cdbs> seb128: I didn't run into any issues so far, except for a gstreamer corruption one day
<didrocks> cdbs: not sure, didn't get time to look at that, I'll after the SRU and other paperwork
<vish> Sweetshark: where is the option to turn on the quick starter icon?
<seb128> cdbs, it's just that we synced d-conf recently
<vish> Sweetshark: btw, /usr/lib/libreoffice/share/config/images_brand.zip , says it is a broken archive (alteast in the ppa for maverick)
<cdbs> seb128: hmm, correct
<Sweetshark> vish: Tools->Options, LibreOffice->Memory, "Enable Systray Quickstarter"
<vish> Sweetshark: weird, that option does not exist in Ubuntu package 1:3.3.2-1ubuntu2~maverick1 , no probs just thought i could check if the quick start icon was fixed too..
<seb128> cdbs, btw no need to write a mir for sources already in main with a different name
<seb128> cdbs, i.e gnome-desktop3 is just gnome-desktop in a new version
<cdbs> seb128: hmm, really?
<seb128> yes, the source is already in main and has been reviewed
<cdbs> seb128: I thought an MIR was important for everything
<cdbs> okie
<seb128> no, the purpose of a mir is to get the code reviewed to see if it's fine to get in main
<seb128> no need to do it again just because the source got renamed
<Sweetshark> vish: hmm, on natty, I have the option, but I still see no systray icon.
<seb128> unity blocks systray use if you don't whitelist things in gsettings
<vish> Sweetshark: yea, In Unity, notification icons that need to be displayed need  a whitelist,   the reporter is using Classic desktop with gnome panel
<seb128> http://askubuntu.com/questions/36898/how-can-i-see-a-list-of-all-the-systray-icons-that-are-not-whitelisted
<cjwatson> perl transition> specifically it'd be nice if somebody could fix pidgin's FTBFS
<Sweetshark> vish: do you have libreoffice-gnome installed? Without it, I dont have the option either.
<seb128> hum, "make[6]: *** No rule to make target `../libgnt.la', needed by `irssi.la'.  Stop."
<seb128> cjwatson, I've no real clue what the issue could be or what changed that make it stop to build but I will try to have a look today
<vish> Sweetshark: ah ha! yea, that fixed it, had to install -gnome and -gtk , and now I have that option. thx
<cjwatson> seb128: thanks, it's certainly not obvious
<dpm> hi pitti, good morning! I've just seen https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-loco-cds - do you have something in mind already for the implementation?
<pitti> dpm: yes, I just didn't draft it yet
<dpm> pitti, ok, no rush, I was just wondering, thanks!
<vish> Sweetshark: how does one apply for/get LibO git commit access?
<Sweetshark> vish: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/NewAccount
<vish> thanks!
<cdbs> mvo: Hey there, could you also update update-manager in Oneiric from bzr? Right now its broken
<Sweetshark> vish: see also http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Git-Artwork-guide-td2844436.html
<Sweetshark> vish: please cc me on the bugs with the account request, so I can help moving it along.
<vish> Sweetshark: sure, whats your mail id on fdo?
<mvo> cdbs: sure, thanks! will do right after lunch :)
<Sweetshark> vish: bjoern.michaelsenATcanonical.com
<vish> cool!
<seb128> hey mterry, how are you?
<mterry> seb128, good!
<mterry> seb128, already on oneiric
<seb128> had a nice flight back? how is your jetlag?
<mterry> seems pretty similar so far.  Clearly we need to package more of GNOME 3 until it breaks
<seb128> mterry, great ;-)
<seb128> right
<seb128> speaking of which
<mterry> seb128, jetlag is causing me to be up so early, so here I am.  ;)
<seb128> mterry, could you review the mirs for libpeas and seed when you have some time?
<mterry> seb128, yes, MIR duty is on my TODO today
<seb128> great
<seb128> that's blocking some of the GNOME3 builds
<seb128> i.e eog
<ricotz> seb128, hello
<seb128> hey ricotz, how are you?
<ricotz> just a short question
<seb128> sure
<ricotz> i am great, i hope you too
<seb128> yes, I'm fine thanks
<ricotz> is it possible to use libnotify-dev instead of libnotify4-dev
<ricotz> meaning to sync more with debian
<ricotz> this might some more syncs possible
<ricotz> like zenity
<seb128> ricotz, yes, we discussed that with pitti at UDS and agree to just sync and deal with the transition this cycle
<ricotz> great ;)
<ricotz> so have fun all of you
<ricotz> bbl
<mterry> seb128, what was the link to the etherpad we're using for GNOME3 stuff?
<seb128> mterry, cf topic ;-)
<mterry> doh
 * didrocks -> break
<seb128> didrocks, you start eating?! ;-)
<seb128> mterry, we should probably move it to the ubuntu pad now that we have one though, I will do that after lunch
<didrocks> seb128: no, don't be crazy! :-) I'll just go outside and walk
<seb128> didrocks, ok ;-)
<didrocks> let see how many days I can keep up with that :-)
<seb128> time to eat there, bbl
<didrocks> seb128: enjoy
<pitti> seb128: I'll check libnotify now
<pitti> seb128: in the worst case, we can reintroduce the previous version with a differet source name, but I figure the transition is happening in Debian as well
<seb128> pitti, sorry I already synced it and did another upload to get a newer version than the binaries we had
<pitti> seb128: ah, so much the better
<seb128> jbicha, hey, I'm not sure why debian added that Build-Depends-Package to the .symbols but upgrading seems fine, I will sponsor your update after lunch
<apw> anyone know if there is a way in natty to close banshee without the music stopping, is this a known issue if not
<pitti> it works with RB; I have never tried it with banshee, I'm afraid
<pitti> apw: but it's certainly meant to be working, i. e. a bug
<apw> pitti, seems it is a banshee config not turned on, enablign soundmenu integration... seemed to be left off during the upgrade from Maverick
<davmor2> apw: works here you have to have the music playing though not paused
<davmor2> apw: I did a fresh install
<apw> yeah i was missing the extension for soundmenu being enabled within banshee, seems that should have been enabled during upgrade to me
<rodrigo__> pitti, ca-certificates-java is the java package that failed to configure for you, right?
<pitti> rodrigo__: confirmed
<rodrigo__> pitti, ok, so that's the only thing that seemed to fail
<rodrigo__> I'd appreciate a review of this: https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/oneiric/gnome-menus/3_0_0_release/+merge/61098 before I upload it, just in case I broke some ubuntu-specific stuff when rebasing from Debian
<seb128> rodrigo__, let me have a look to gnome-menus
<rodrigo__> seb128, cool, thanks
<rodrigo__> hey mterry, how was your long wait at the airport?
<seb128> rodrigo__, btw no need to push it on the side, you could merge it directly and ask for a review from trunk
<mterry> rodrigo__, :)  Fine.  I drank lots of hot chocoloate
<rodrigo__> seb128, yeah, just wanted to make it easy to get a diff for review
<rodrigo__> seb128, so, shall I merge it now?
<seb128> rodrigo__, your call, I'm reviewing it
<rodrigo__> seb128, ok, I'll wait for your review then
<seb128> rodrigo__, why did you drop the -dbg?
<rodrigo__> seb128, it wasn't in the debian package
<seb128> rodrigo__, right, it's something we added in Ubuntu for easier python debugging, do you think it's not useful?
<rodrigo__> seb128, no, just that's why I wanted the review, was not sure what was ubuntu-specific, so re-adding it
<seb128> rodrigo__, default rule is to keep things if you don't know why they are there ;-)
<seb128> usually we don't go through the work of maintaining a delta for no reason
<rodrigo__> ok
<seb128> rodrigo__, you need the python-xdg Recommends
<seb128> update-gnome-menus-cache uses it
<rodrigo__> ok, re-adding it then
<seb128> recommends -> depends
<seb128> well it's listed twice, just restore those
<rodrigo__> where is it listed twice?
<seb128> it's in a recommends and in a depends in the diff
<seb128> urg
<seb128> rodrigo__, why did you drop the postinst code which generate the cache?
<seb128> same for 24_ubuntu_hide_control_center.patch
<seb128> we probably want to keep dropping 01_default_prefix.patch
<seb128> we don't namespace those menus gnome- in Ubuntu
<rodrigo__> seb128, ok
<jbicha> seb128: thanks
<seb128> rodrigo__, the admin patch is useful as well
<seb128> rodrigo__, ok, so rule is "don't drop something if you don't know why it's there and if you drop something document the rational in the changelog" ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo__, does it make sense?
<rodrigo__> seb128, yes, sure
<rodrigo__> that's why I wanted a review :)
<seb128> rodrigo__, thanks, sorry for being picky
<rodrigo__> seb128, no, no problem
<seb128> lut kinouchou
<seb128> kinouchou, bien rentrÃ©e ?
<seb128> rodrigo__, ok, I think that's the only comments I have for now, I will do another review once you adressed those
<kinouchou> bonjour seb128 :)
<didrocks> hey kinouchou
<rodrigo__> seb128, ok, pushing in a bit, as soon as it builds ok
<kinouchou> oui bien rentrÃ©e seb128
<seb128> rodrigo__, no hurry, you should get some lunch and finish later
<rodrigo__> seb128, 24_ubuntu_hide_control_center.patch doesn't apply aymore, there's no settings.menu file in upstream anymore
<seb128> hum
<seb128> rodrigo__, the idea is to not list admin entries if you don't have right to run those
<seb128> so we need a workitem about updating that if you don't do it in the update
<seb128> rodrigo__, that should still apply to the control center
<rodrigo__> the control center would need to have code to not show those entries
<rodrigo__> seb128, so, can you please add the work item?
<kinouchou> hello fredp
<kinouchou> hi desrt
<seb128> rodrigo__, ok
<fredp> kinouchou: hey!
<seb128> lut fredp
<fredp> and hey seb128, didrocks, rodrigo__, and others
<rodrigo__> hey fredp, back at home safely?
<rodrigo__> seb128, so, do I drop 01_default_prefix.patch? that's debian -specific?
<didrocks> re fredp
<fredp> a long stop in vienna, but finally got home.
<rodrigo__> fredp, cool (to be back home, not the long stop in vienna :-)
<fredp> there was free wifi, so it was still ok :)
<didrocks> wifi and battery is all we need, isn't it? :)
<rodrigo__> :D
<seb128> rodrigo__, right, they rename applications.menu to gnome-applications.menus that we don't do
<didrocks> pitti: can you accept https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-dx-o-compiz for oneiric? (just proposed it, I'll add some WI, but smspillaz will be drafting it)
<didrocks> pitti: same for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-dx-o-bugs-triage-and-workflow
<rodrigo__> seb128, ok, so pushed, will go out for lunch now while it builds, so do another review whenever you want
<seb128> rodrigo__, ok, enjoy!
<Iormangund> heya, is there a way to change wireless network connection order of preference?
<cyphermox> Iormangund: the preferred networks should be those you've connected to previously; however, you should ask question in #ubuntu instead
<Iormangund> i will, ty, though i mean choosing what order, ie atmo it keeps connecting to the weak signal one, instead of the strong one
<chrisccoulson> how many people have upgraded to oneiric so far?
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: I have
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, any issues?
<cyphermox> on my vostro, oopses every once in a while
<cyphermox> I haven't made sense of why yet, but it seemed to happen in more cpu-intensive cases, eg. compiling, and possibly only while on battery
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, oh, that's ok. my laptop panicked several times last week anyway (on natty)
<cyphermox> ok :)
<cyphermox> maybe it was just because of being in another country ;)
<pitti> didrocks: sure, done
<didrocks> pitti: thanks a lot :)
<pitti> de rien
<pitti> hey mterry
<mterry> pitti, hello!
<pitti> seb128: should we move to gtk 3.1.x straight away, or do you think it's better to stay at 3.0 first?
<pitti> from the gnome3 session I remember that we want to move to 3.1.x early, but I forgot whether there was an intermediate step
<seb128> pitti, no strong opinion, we should go to GNOME 3.0 before 3.1 but for glib and gtk if someone wants to go straight to the new version just do it
<pitti> *nod*
<Laney> anyone on mir duty? i'd appreciate a look at dbus-sharp
 * pitti grabs polkit-gnome
<seb128> pitti, there is a merge requestion for it waiting on versions for some weeks
<pitti> *nod*
<seb128> not sure if you wanted to update or to sponsor the merge but just pointing it ;-)
<pitti> the latter
<seb128> ok
<seb128> pitti, btw debian got gnome-disk-utility 3 if you want to do some GNOME3 updates ;-)
<pitti> seb128: yes, I'm eager to get there :)
<pitti> seb128: I just thought we should start at the libraries first (gtk, etc.)
<pitti> although I guess our GTK is recent enough
<seb128> pitti, the libraries should be done, we got most of those updated in natty or when oneiric opened
<seb128> well it's the 3.0 not 3.1 stack but that's what we target for the merge round
<pitti> there, pk-gnome using GTK 3 now
 * pitti grabs gdu then and marks it in the pad
<cyphermox> pitti: thx for the merge ;)
<pitti> cyphermox: you did it, so thanks to you :)
<dpm> hey pitti, I've seen that on the desktop-o-clean-up-language-support blueprint you've unassigned most of the WI from the desktop team. Does this mean no one is going to be working on this, that they are going to be assigned later, or something else?
<pitti> dpm: the default assignee is the blueprint assignee, which is me in this case
<pitti> just slightly easier to read
<pitti> I had to fix some assignee names anyway, so I cleaned up a bit
<dpm> pitti, ah, ok, I didn't know it worked that way too, that's good to know, thanks!
<seb128> pitti, do you co-maintain gobject-introspection in Debian? seems the only diff we have is a one line for multiarch, do you know what it's the status of getting that into debian?
<pitti> seb128: I had an extensive discussion with bigon to get our changes merged
<pitti> seb128: http://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/Bootstrapping still says it's not ready yet
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
<pitti> seb128: g-d-u merge done in bzr, but blocking on libunique-3.0-dev and libavahi-ui-gtk3-dev (these need merges first, I presume)
<pitti> I'll put these on my list as well
<seb128> pitti, libunique3 can be synced from debian experimental
<Laney> 1
<seb128> pitti, the avahi one is a newer revision since your merge, should be easy to do
<pitti> seb128: ah, we can drop our changes?
<Laney> sorry
<pitti> right, looks so
<seb128> pitti, hum, I need to check for libunique, but the only one we had iirc was deleting an empty pot so should be easy to apply if still needed
<pitti> seb128: I'm also syncing libunique3
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: (just checked the diff; dropping gir is alright, as libunique3 now builds it)
<pitti> seb128: meh, FTBFS everywhere: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libunique3/2.91.4-1
 * pitti checks
<pitti> I'll fix, empty pot
<kenvandine> hey guys, i'm going to take a little flex time this morning, but will be around this afternoon
<seb128> pitti, ok, still the same issue we had
<pitti> hey kenvandine
<seb128> hey kenvandine
<seb128> kenvandine, had a nice flight back?
 * kenvandine has knee high grass in the yard... 
<kenvandine> not bad, just long :)
<kenvandine> going to rain this afternoon, and everyday this week... so my last chance to mow this forest of a lawn i have for the next 5-6 days
<seb128> kenvandine, not sure what you plan to work on this week but if you could check with Cimi on GTK3 theming that would be nice, he has something working at UDS it seems and since we start landing GTK3 applications in oneiric we could use a theme
<kenvandine> great
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, enjoy
<kenvandine> that would be a good place to start :)
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> the look pretty ugly right now indeed
<pitti> seb128: btw, could you please moderate my u-desktop@ email? it hung because of too many CCs
<kenvandine> seb128, so i'll look into that first and i want to finish the ido port to gtk3 this week
 * pitti wasn't sure whether the entire desktop team was subscribed, so I mailed people individually
<kenvandine> and get a libgwibber-gtk build for gtk3
<seb128> kenvandine, great
<seb128> pitti, ok, will do
<kenvandine> ok, i'll be back in a few hours :)
<seb128> kenvandine, see you ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - we'll still have a gtk2 theme won't we?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yes, but that doesn't make things using GTK3 look nice though ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - cool, just checking. we don't want gtk2 applications to look bad ;)
<mterry> seb128, FYI the seed/libpeas MIRs were examined, though neither is quite ready to hit main yet.
<seb128> mterry, is there anything blocking out of security reviews?
<mterry> seb128, both need symbols files and libpeas test suite is failing (may be me running it badly, but needs investigation)
<seb128> mterry, ok, thanks, do you plan to do the .symbols thing or should I add it to my list?
<mterry> seb128, I hadn't, but I can add it to my list
<seb128> we have gedit and eog which depwait on those so would be nice to unblock
 * mterry adds to TODO
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<rodrigo__> seb128, did you review my last push?
<rodrigo__> seb128, no hurry, just want to know if I can upload it or just wait
<seb128> rodrigo__, not yet, I just finish nautilus and will do that
<rodrigo__> seb128, ok, as I said, no hurry, just let me know when it's ok
<seb128> ok
<rodrigo__> seb128, so, I see most debian packages don't use dh-autoreconf, but we do, so should I leave those in our packages?
<seb128> yes
<rodrigo__> ok
<rodrigo__> ditto for gnome-common
<seb128> that's usually because we patch configure.ac for launchpad integration and we need to run autoconf to update the configure
<rodrigo__> ah, ok
<seb128> right, gnome-common is usually needed for autoreconf to work
<didrocks> have a nice evening everyone!
<braiam> Morning!!
<mterry> Anyone here have gtester experience?
<pitti> mterry: is that g_test_* API or something else?
<mterry> pitti, yeah
<mterry> pitti, libpeas's test suite is failing during a test, but I'm not sure what it's about
<pitti> mterry: the only known usage to me is upower's test suite
<pitti> but it's pretty straightforward, each test just does a fe g_assert()s
<pitti> s/fe/few/
<mterry> pitti, well, it's dying because something tries to register the same static gtype twice.  Seems like some threading error, as the registration is g_once protected
<mterry> pitti, do you know how g_test* handles threading?
<pitti> mterry: I don't, sorry
<mterry> pitti, thx anyway!  I'll just let that one stew in my brain for a while and do something else I guess
<bcurtiswx> which channel do I bug for SRU for natty for telepathy-logger? -motu?
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx: #ubuntu-devel should be fine; and technically so is this channel too, pretty much
<bcurtiswx> https://code.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/telepathy-logger/lp_745803_fix/+merge/60964 Natty SRU request telepathy-logger
<bcurtiswx> thanks :)
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx: seems to me like the changelog should better describe the changes made to the patch file. I think itÂ´s also not necessary to mention the series file given that AFAICT itÂ´s not touched at all (unless you forgot to bzr add it?)
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, you are correct, i added it here but not bzr.. weeee brb
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx: and also, the merge request seems off to me. IÂ´d think it should for ubuntu-sponsors to review, and subscrive ubuntu-sru to the bug report and adjust the description for SRU rationale, impact and test cases as described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, OK thanks
<broder> cyphermox, bcurtiswx: no, i think the procedure is right (one moment while i double check...)
<Ampelbein> cyphermox: I recall a change to the sru procedure where it gets uploaded and reviewed from the upload queue.
<cyphermox> dunno, just my feeling from the bzr branch, I may be wrong ;)
<broder> ok, i see
<broder> yeah - the bzr proposal is fine, and it should go through the normal sponsorship process before sru review
<broder> but you should update the bug description with the the stuff that the wiki page asks for
<broder> (test case is definitely most important)
<cyphermox> Ampelbein, broder, then where is this new procedure documented?
<Ampelbein> cyphermox: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-July/030999.html
<cyphermox> thanks
<broder> cyphermox: the wiki page is accurate - nominate, subscribe ubuntu-sru, upload (without waiting for sru approval)
<broder> "There is no need to wait before uploading"
<cyphermox> right
<cyphermox> but the issue i was referring to was that the merge request asks for review from ubuntu-sru ;)
<Ampelbein> oh, then it was a misunderstanding, sorry.
<cyphermox> np; just making sure IÂ´m not missing pieces :)
<bcurtiswx> OK, so the review foes to -sponsors
<bcurtiswx> goes*
<bcurtiswx> and the bug gets SRU subscribed, and I edit the bug desc and such for SRU
<bcurtiswx> correct?
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx: yeah, sounds right
<rickspencer3> reading desktop-devel-list is not too fun these days
<jbicha> rickspencer3: you mean ubuntu-devel ?
<rickspencer3> jbicha, no, I mean the gnome list
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, indeed
<rickspencer3> the lesson seems to be "don't try to collaborate upstream"
<pitti> rickspencer3: within all the noise and bashing there was finally some constructive result, though
<pitti> (for control-center and language-selector)
<rickspencer3> pitti, oh? I haven't tgotten there yet for that or lightDM
<pitti> rickspencer3: not for that, right
<rickspencer3> statements like this, make we wonder:
<rickspencer3> You know what I think is selfish? Treating GNOME like it's just a
<rickspencer3> factory spitting out technology, at your bidding, that you can put
<rickspencer3> together as you see fit. And then not giving any credit or
<rickspencer3> contributing your changes back upstream. Think about it.
<pitti> anyway, sleep time; good night everyone!
<kenvandine> good night pitti
<rickspencer3> night pitti
<bcurtiswx> nite pitti
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, issue fixed :) thanks
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, was your 100% CPU bug that you mentioned to me before from indicator-weather ?
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, we've seen in for several things
<kenvandine> it isn't specific to indicator-weather
<bcurtiswx> it's desktopcouch-service
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i think it is a broken view in couchdb
<rickspencer3> hi bcurtiswx
<bcurtiswx> hey rickspencer3 :)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, and you were planning on moving indicator code off of empathy and using telepathy-indicator instead right? were you going to keep that vala or make it pure GTK ?
<kenvandine> vala
<highvoltage> rickspencer3: did you copy and paste that from somewhere or is it originalâ¢ rickspencer3?
<highvoltage> (oh, sorry, I read the line above now, d'oh!)
<rickspencer3> hi highvoltage
<rickspencer3> I was just kind of surprised by how heated some of the threads got
<highvoltage> silly humans and their emotions! *wiggling pointy ears*
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, how do I compile tp-indicator?
<kenvandine> it won't build for you right now
<kenvandine> needs changes i have locally as well as tweaks to the tp-glib vapi file
<bcurtiswx> OK, thought I was going something wrong :-x
<bcurtiswx> doing*
<kenvandine> i'll get it in shape to build in the next couple days :)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, sounds good :)
<rickspencer3> highvoltage, indeed
<jbicha> I don't think proposing LightDM for Gnome acceptance now was a good idea, as I think it's more of
<jbicha> a proof of concept than actually deployable yet, but maybe that's partly because I couldn't
<jbicha> get it working on my Oneiric box, but I don't think accessibility support was added yet
<jbicha> it's perhaps a bit like Lennart's pushing Ubuntu to switch to systemd when it's not actually been deployed on a wide scale yet
<jbicha> *was not a good idea
<micahg> jbicha: someone already commented on that, it's not a fair comparison
<jbicha> I don't see how lightdm could be expected to be ready to replace GDM, but it may be totally different after Ubuntu ships it by default and somebody writes a Gnome Shell-like theme
<jbicha> so, try again in 6 months :-)
<jbicha> I mean I don't like everything in the new GDM but lightdm hasn't realized all of its potential yet either
<bcurtiswx> empathy got the same criticism when it became default
<bcurtiswx> look where it is now
<bcurtiswx> i think something like lightGM can do the same
<jbicha> bcurtiswx: I think I can finally use IRC on empathy now, too bad I've switched to irssi from pidgin now :-)
<bcurtiswx> lightDM*
<bcurtiswx> i can't see my keyboard, so it's all blind typing.. don't get an HP DV7 if you value being able to see the keyboard :P
<jbicha> yeah I have confidence that lightdm will be doing ok in a few months but how many people are actually running it now?
<bcurtiswx> how many people were running empathy when it was suggested default... same-ish amount i would guess
<jbicha> lightdm won't even run for me so it's a bit different :-)
<scott-work> if the ubuntu studio team wanted to stay with gnome2, would there be any heartache or grief with package names as they are currently?
<scott-work> would we need to revise our seeds for new package names or would any dependcies be newly named?
 * scott-work will be leaving work soon but will see any response on ScottL
<jbicha> scott-work: it's not going to be possible as gnome 2 won't exist in the archives, but there is a Gnome Panel 3 you may be able to use by default
<jbicha> I'm running Gnome Panel 3 on my computer and it mostly works (indicators haven't been ported to it but that will come later this cycle)
<scott-work> jbicha: is gnome panel 3 the "compatability" layer within gnome3 or is this something else?
<jbicha> yes, it's the fallback mode and looks like an evolved version of the Gnome 2 interface, just a bit tweaked to resemble Gnome Shell a bit more
<jbicha> it's in my PPA if you want to play with it, I wouldn't recommend you do it on your primary computer if you depend on
<jbicha> your computer working as it normally does
<scott-work> jbicha: i have a fedora live gnome3 disc, will it differ drastically?
<jbicha> no, it's the same thing
<scott-work> jbicha: or should i really use the PPA to get an accurate representation
<scott-work> oh, okay
<scott-work> jbicha:  some if the ubuntu studio team might want to test, what is your ppa name?
<scott-work> jbicha: nevermind, found it :)
<jbicha> it's not part of the gnome3 PPA since without indicator support, it breaks the Ubuntu look & feel
<jbicha> and any custom applets besides the 20 or so included probably haven't been ported yet either
<scott-work> jbicha: mainly we are worried about the workflow for studio work so i think it will give us a fairly good indicator without additional applets
<scott-work> jbicha: most on the team feel that without panels it creates a strained work flow
<scott-work> just exploring the possibilities
<scott-work> jbicha:  just for clarification: are you saying that gnome2 will NOT be in the archives for ocelot?
<jbicha> ScottL: the packages names aren't changing, gnome-panel 3 is still named gnome-panel in the repositories, thus there can only be 1 version there
<ScottL> jbicha, gotcha!  thanks for the information
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-17
<PoDunk> Anyone having issues with Firefox/Flash after upgrading to 11.04
<pitti> Good morning
<braiam> Morning!
<cdbs> Good morning pitti
<cdbs> pitti: While porting checkbox to pygi, and then running it, there's no command line output, and the program just terminates
<cdbs> pitti: Any way to get better traceback and stuff?
<cdbs> pitti: also, how does one force usage of gtk2 in pygi? Thanks!
<pitti> hey cdbs
<pitti> cdbs: hm, not even an assertion failure?
<cdbs> pitti: no, nothing, just nothing
<pitti> cdbs: I'm afraid then you have to run it through strace
<cdbs> okay
<pitti> cdbs: what's the exit code?
<pitti> cdbs: add this before the from gi.r import Gtk:
<pitti> import gi
<pitti> gi.require_version('Gtk', '2.0')
<pitti> or just uninstall gir1.2-gtk-3.0, it'll automatically pick the latest available
<cdbs> okay, thanks
<pitti> cdbs: but notice that using GTK 3 will have a lot less bugs
<pitti> and we'll upload it to oneiric with GTK3 anyway
<pitti> (we still need to port it to GTK 3)
<cdbs> just testing if its a GTK issue, I'll eventually put it up on GTK3
<pitti> strace should at least give you a pretty good idea why and where it terminates
<cdbs> hmm
<pitti> if you aren't that familiar with reading it, feel free to pastebin it somewhere
<cdbs> no difference with gtk2
<cdbs> pitti: Pastebin http://paste.ubuntu.com/608808/ , can't understand why. I installed it properly, there's no doubt that the proper code is being used
<pitti> ECHILD (No child processes)
<pitti> seems a subprocess died
<pitti> cdbs: can you run that again with: strace -fvvs1024 python yourprogram
<pitti> ?
<broder> cdbs: did you see the error about canberra near the end?
<pitti> broder: yes, that appears with every GI program
<broder> oh, ok
<pitti> cdbs: or additionally use -o /tmp/trace in case it's too long for a screen
<cdbs> pitti: Yes I did see the message about canberra but that's just a warning, also canberra isn't used in this case
<broder> cdbs: oh, right - /usr/bin/checkbox-gtk is just a wrapper script. you didn't pass -f, so you won't actually see the python process
<pitti> brb
<cdbs> now that's a huge wall of text!
<cdbs> pastebining is taking time :)
<cdbs> pitti: Ah, thanks for telling me about strace. I got it. The strace clearly shows python failing to stdout a proper traceback due to some internal python bug :) Thanks again, I know you're away. Enjoy your day!
<pitti> cdbs: urgh, that doesn't sound healthy -- what does it say on the write() to stderr?
<cdbs> pitti: just a sec, paste-bining
<cdbs> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/608815/
<cdbs> well, I fixed the colour issue now
<pitti> cdbs: hm, the write() was successful -- so you don't see it?
<pitti> oh, wait, why does it write to fd 3?
<pitti> stderr is fd 2
<pitti> cdbs: you should reverse-grep the trace for an open.*= 3
<pitti> cdbs: I assume it writes into a log file
<cdbs> err, okay
<cdbs> get it then
<cdbs> pitti: So it should be checkbox-gtk 3&>1 or something?
<broder> huh? it wrote to the log file successfully
<broder> i think checkbox logs to ~/.cache/checkbox/checkbox.log
<broder> cdbs: if checkbox opens a file, then writes to it, redirecting fd 3 will just mean that the file will get opened as fd 4
<pitti> cdbs: I suppose it does some sys.stderr = magic at some point to redirect python's stderr
<cdbs> okay, leave it, I'll get it done myself, the strace clearly shows the traceback, enough for now :)
<pitti> the standard way to do this is to do os.dup2() to stderr (i. e. fd 2), but it seems checkbox does something else here
<pitti> cdbs: no ~/.cache/checkbox/checkbox.log ?
<cdbs> yes, its coming up there, thanks pitti and broder
<pitti> ah, good
<pitti> easier to read than from strace :)
<pitti> but still, if everything else fails, strace will still be your friend
<cdbs> pitti: Ah, the sweet smell of success, checkbox in an ugly theme :D which means its running in gtk3 :) Thanks a lot for you help
<pitti> \o/
<pitti> cdbs: yeah, it's not quite rewarding ATM :/
<pitti> it works the same, just more ugly :)
<jbicha> cdbs: you haven't set your gtk3 theme to adwaita?
<cdbs> jbicha: I'm not using the PPA
<cdbs> jbicha: and neither will I use it (again), I have to work on unity nowadays
<cdbs> pitti: It may be ugly, but I prefer cleanliness of APIs over ugliness :) Well, the ugly issues will be fixed soon
<didrocks> good morning
<cdbs> Good morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey cdbs!
<jasoncwarner> hey didrocks, pitti...morning...everyone feeling still feeling ok?
<cdbs> jasoncwarner: hey there, how are ya feeling?
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: hey! yeah, most of the team avoided ubuflu this time it seems :)
<didrocks> and you, how is the jetlag? ;)
 * cdbs hands over a glass of refreshing, calming and energizing juice to everyone around
<jasoncwarner> cdbs: feeling pretty good...thanks. Hoping all other desktopers avoided ubuflu as well :)
<cdbs> jasoncwarner: no problem, take my potion, err, juice :)
<jasoncwarner> didrocks: oh man, jetlag is a bit, well, laggy...I'm about to goto the gym to try and shake the rest of it off
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: heh, enjoy and don't push it too hard :-)
<jasoncwarner> oh, I think you saw the shape I was in at uds...I don't think anyone has to worry about me "pushing it" at the gym ;)
<cdbs> Seems that UDS is more tiring than an Antarctica expedition
 * cdbs really should go there
<jasoncwarner> cdbs: or perhaps people are better prepared for the physical rigors of Antarctica! All linux geeks need to start training for UDS a month before...maybe that will help
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: well, I didn't ought to weigh myself right now. I prefer to wait for 2 weeks with normal dinners to not feel depressed :-)
<jasoncwarner> ha!
<cdbs> jasoncwarner: +1 that, a month before UDS it'd be nice to remind everyone on MLs to excersize ahead of a major tour :
<cdbs> )
<didrocks> pitti: weekly meeting today? really? :)
<pitti> hey didrocks
<pitti> didrocks: well, I don't insist -- it's just on the calendar
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I think it will be a short meeting ;)
<didrocks> pitti: hey btw, how is your new desk?
<pitti> yes indeed
<pitti> didrocks: nice new command center!
<didrocks> heh! :-)
<pitti> took me 3.5 hours to assemble, though
<didrocks> oh really? is it that big?
<pitti> was quite complicated with a million screws and small sheds
<pitti> didrocks: 1.35 m wide, so not that big, but it's not just two large boxes, but lots of small ones, CD sliders, and what not
<didrocks> oh CD sliders and such, yeah, can grow complicated very fast
<pitti> and now we got a new power plug in the hallway for phone/router
<pitti> I can remove my chain of extenders taped on the floor, yay -- this might become a real place to live at last ;)
<didrocks> heh, better place to live is quite important for work ;)
<chrisccoulson> eeeek, http://is.gd/9WRwUD
<chrisccoulson> i think i need to fix that ;)
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson!
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: creating bugs? :p
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<pitti> clearly the user's fault!
<chrisccoulson> lol
<didrocks> heh
<chrisccoulson> i don't think i can blame the user for this one ;)
<pitti> darn
<didrocks> a little bit oot, but I'm clearly impressed by the state of the Qt documentation
<pitti> last time I looked at it it was fairly detailled, indeed
<didrocks> yeah, detailed and quite easy to follow with concepts outlined
<pitti> Sweetshark: releaseing LibO SRU now, 12 days in proposed should suffice
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i think i know why firefox is crashing :)
<pitti> seb128: bonjour
<pitti> seb128: FYI, I reuploaded your nautilus upload to oneiric instead of natty
<pitti> it built fine for me, and libnautilus-extension-dev was required for e. g. g-d-u
<seb128> hey
<seb128> doh, that's what happen when you don't dist-upgrade :p
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> it doesn't actually manage my desktop any more (I just get a window opened on boot), but that's not critical
<seb128> pitti, cf changelog, did you turn the gsettings I listed there?
<seb128> in the "known issues" at the start of the changelog
<pitti> I didn't
<seb128> ok, try that then
<pitti> "using the gsettings command" -- how?
<didrocks> seb128: so, the feature isn't removed? it's just a gsettings key to off isn't it?
 * pitti will try dconf-editor
<seb128> pitti, gsettings set <key-name> <value>
<seb128> didrocks, that would be too easy, it's a key set to off and nautilus is not a required component anymore nor has an autostart
<pitti> ah, indeed
<pitti> it also overwrites my background image
<pitti> but it works
<seb128> pitti, you gconf and gsettings background values are probably out of sync
<seb128> your
<pitti> *nod*
<didrocks> seb128: hum, ok, that will be a little bit more work then
<seb128> didrocks, right, that's why I added a workitem to the GNOME3 spec ;-)
<didrocks> yeah, I saw the one to "consider if we use that or not"
<pitti> seb128: I'll reset it, though, as at some point we need to fix this in upgrades
<pitti> better for testing
<seb128> pitti, the migration work but it's done one and by gsettings-desktop-schemas
<seb128> which I guess you installed in natty so it migrated what you had by then
<seb128> one -> once
<mvo> hey seb128, good monring! a quick question about the gconf -> gsetting migration - do we keep the "old" gconf files around? for people e.g. using /home on a nfs mount with multiple versions of ubuntu?
<seb128> mvo, yes, the scripts just read the gconf value and set the gsettings with it
<pitti> seb128: ah, it's just done once ever?
<mvo> awsome, thanks seb128
<seb128> pitti, yes, you don't want your config to be resetted with what is leftover in gconf at each login
<pitti> seb128: would it perhaps be prudent to run it again after a natty->oneiric update? if that is just me, I don't mind, but it might hit more users
<seb128> pitti, we probably should, I added a WI to desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3 about it
<pitti> $ gsettings-data-convert --verbose
<pitti> All uptodate, nothing to do
<pitti> hm
<pitti> I tried deleting .config/dconf/user, but that wasn't it apparently
<seb128> pitti, no, .local/share/gsettings-data-convert
<pitti> seb128: done, but show-desktop-icons is still false
<seb128> pitti, right, cf nautilus changelog :p
<seb128> pitti, upstream turned desktop handling for nautilus off by default
<pitti> for g-s, right
<seb128> cf "Decide on whether nautilus should still draw desktop icons or not in Ubuntu:" in the desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3 spec also
<pitti> seb128: ah, I got confused then -- I thought it was due to gsettings migration not running after the nautilus update, sorry
<seb128> pitti, no, the migration was just giving you the wrong background image
<seb128> pitti, GNOME3 has a "clean" desktop
<seb128> i.e key set to off and they don't even start nautilus in the session
<seb128> they dropped the autostart
<seb128> gnome-tweak-tools create an autostart for you in .local if you turn the option on there
<didrocks> btw, there is nothing in the gs interface for showing automounted usb keys and such?
<pitti> ah, g-s-d does the automounting now, right
<didrocks> ok, pitti answered :)
<seb128> pitti, yes
<seb128> the ui is in the control center
<seb128> the mounting in g-s-d
<seb128> but g-s-d already landed no?
<seb128> oh, it's depwait
<seb128> "Missing build dependencies: libgnome-desktop-3-dev "
<pitti> seb128: want me to work on anything with g3 updates?
<pitti> what's most urgent right now?
<rodrigo__> morning
<pitti> hey rodrigo__
<rodrigo__> hi pitti
<seb128> hey rodrigo__
<and471> mvo, hey there!
<rodrigo__> hi seb128
<didrocks> hey rodrigo__
<rodrigo__> hi didrocks :)
<seb128> pitti, help is welcome if you want to do some updates, I think gnome-control-center is blocked on libgnomekbd to build that need a new libxklavier
<mvo> hey and471! nice to see you - how are you?
<seb128> we might also need a mir for accountsservice
<and471> mvo, I am good, getting ready for exams :)
<pitti> seb128: starting with libxklavier then
<and471> mvo, how was uds?
<seb128> pitti, otherwise anything red on http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<mvo> and471: good luck with the exams! uds was really good, very energetic, way more ideas than time to implement them :)
<and471> hehe
<and471> mvo, I have a one line patch for SC, are you too busy atm?
<mvo> and471: never for a patch
<and471> :)
<mvo> and471: where is it?
<pitti> meh, what's up with nautilus
<and471> mvo, it just adds a 3px border around the text in the status bar, so it doesn't looked as 'cramped'
<and471> mvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/608871/
<mvo> thanks and471, I apply it now
<and471> mvo, many thanks
<pitti> dep-wait on libgnome-desktop-3-dev; how did I build that locally?
<seb128> pitti, I'm just promoting it
<pitti> ah, universe
<pitti> cheers
<pitti> g-d-u -> nautilus -> gnome-desktop
<and471> mvo, btw SC is looking awesome :)
<mvo> and471: thanks, happy to hear that :)
 * and471 dreams of a SC written in Vala...
<mvo> and471: heh :)
<pitti> seb128: grabbing libgnomekbd as well for completeness
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<mvo> and471: commited, many thanks
<chrisccoulson> pitti, am i ok to SRU bug 783790?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 783790 in globalmenu-extension/1.0 "Firefox 4 crashes when opening Selenium IDE window" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/783790
<pitti> crash fix? sure
<chrisccoulson> it will likely be with a couple of other crash fixes, eg, bug 783856 gets quite a few too
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 783856 in globalmenu-extension "Thunderbird 3.1.10 Crash Report [@ uGlobalMenuBar::~uGlobalMenuBar ]" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/783856
<chrisccoulson> thanks :)
<and471> mvo, np
<pitti> seb128: all three on the way now; I'll send the libxklavier pkg-config fix upstream, so that we can sync this again at some point
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: moving to dbus then
<seb128> pitti, great ;-)
<pitti> seb128: oh, I see 1.5 is only in experimental, not sid
<pitti> seb128: since dbus doesn't have quick release cycles, I actually wonder whether we should upgrade to the development version
<seb128> pitti, right, slangasek merged on the current unstable version yesterday, not sure if we want 1.5 or not...
<pitti> seb128: did you stumble over anything which needs it?
<seb128> no
<pitti> ok, let's leave like it is for now
<seb128> do they follow stable, unstable series?
<seb128> i.e is 1.5 an unstable version?
<pitti> even/odd numbers
<seb128> ok
<seb128> pitti, I can promote libgnome-media-profiles without a mir since that's a split of gnome-media code which was already in main right?
<pitti> sure
<seb128> thanks
<cdbs> seb128: Hmm, the Nautilus desktop icon drawing thing *still* needs discussion?
<cdbs> seb128: Are there any points in favour of *not* drawing icons?
<seb128> hum
<seb128> "still"?
<seb128> where was that discussed before?
<cdbs> seb128: Oh, I thougt it was discussed at UDS, well it wasn't
<seb128> well, if GNOME3 decided to no do it they probably think it's better
<seb128> we need at least to check with the design and unity teams
<cdbs> seb128: They posted it on an ML about its rationale
<seb128> not sure what your question is there?
<cdbs> seb128: I thought it was discussed earlier. Sorry for poking then
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> do you think we should display those or not?
<cdbs> seb128: I thought it needed a re-examination, and that's why you added it to the blueprint
<cdbs> seb128: I'd say draw the icons, its better for newbies
<cdbs> seb128: Windows users are used to desktop icons, though we aren't :/
<seb128> well the files place make it easy to access your files in unity
<Sweetshark> pitti: yay for the ubuntu5 release.
<cdbs> seb128: The upstream rationale: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2010-September/msg00033.html
 * Sweetshark is in postrelease cleanup and fslint, sorry for the latency.
<pitti> seb128: I'd update poppler, so that we do the further rebuilds against that version, ok?
<seb128> pitti, ok, to what version?
<pitti> seb128: 0.17.1?
<pitti> or do we again only track the even numbers (stable)?
<seb128> pitti, the issue with poppler is that I tend to not trust them to respect a schedule
<seb128> so we might not have 0.18 before oneiric
<pitti> ok, let's wait for stable then; I overlooked that it was an unstable series
 * pitti grabs vte then, that should be safe (0.27.90 -> 0.28)
<seb128> let me try to find their schedule
<seb128> pitti, yes, that one is ok ;-)
<seb128> pitti, hum, http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/poppler/2011-January/006838.html
<pitti> seb128: so we should perhaps update to beta-2 when it lands (0.17.2)?
<seb128> pitti, they have enough margin this time that it's probably safe to track 0.17 so feel free to do the update
<pitti> then we can port our apps to the new API without much danger of having to do it again
<seb128> right
<seb128> no hurry to add another transitions on top of those we already have
<seb128> let's do that one a bit later
<pitti> *nod*
<seb128> hum
<seb128> pitti, did you drop langpack.mk from cdbs?
<pitti> I didn't
<pitti> oh, wait
<pitti> yes, that one
<seb128> hum
<pitti> gnome.mk now uses dh_langpack
<seb128> that breaks builds
<seb128> i.e https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71212116/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.system-config-printer_1.3.1%2B20110222-0ubuntu17_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> some things use langpack.mk but not gnome.mk
<pitti> and while I was porting this, I noticed a couple of bugs, so I thought it's better to move these to dh_langpack or gnome.mk, as appropriate
<pitti> seb128: I'll fix s-c-p
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I just noticed it because it showed up on versions
<seb128> (it lists build failures and merge requests for desktop nowadays)
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> I guess there is probably not much including langpack.mk directly so we should fix those
<rodrigo_> I'm pushing my g-c-c work to the ubuntu-desktop branch, and I've removed lots of patches and the ones remaining need rebasing
<rodrigo_> also, it needs the new NM, so when someone has time, can I get a review, to make sure I haven't dropped patches that should be rebased?
<rodrigo_> in the meanwhile, I'll work on rebasing the patches I've left
<pitti> seb128: right, that's what I thought; better than keeping the old code around for ages, as it's not quite correct any more
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, so you focus on that? do you have build-depends or depends needed which are not uploaded yet?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, NetworkManager
<rodrigo_> I was going to ping cyphermox, but he's not around
<seb128> wasn't that a build option?
<rodrigo_> he was working on that, right?
<seb128> he's in Canada so not up yet
<rodrigo_> seb128, we have a patch in the GNOME3 PPA to disable it, but didn't want to add that
<rodrigo_> but I can
<seb128> is there any way to turn the n-m panel off?
<rodrigo_> yes, that patch
<seb128> do it please
<rodrigo_> let me add it
<seb128> we don't want to rush n-m, it's going to take some weeks
<seb128> the indicator need to be rebased to the new codebase
<cdbs> seb128: Hi, I guess gnome-settings-daemon needs to be rebuilt with libnotify-dev instead of libnotify4-dev
 * cdbs gotta go
<seb128> the kde applet might also need to be checked before uploading
<seb128> cdbs, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, can you maybe do the g-s-d update to the current version and fix the libnotify-dev build-depenedS?
<seb128> depends
<seb128> we went back to the libnotify-dev name
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok
<rodrigo_> I need to fix a crash in g-s-d also, so moving to that
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok
<rodrigo_> but let me first push the NM patch
<seb128> I will review your gnome-menus and gnome-control-center work
<seb128> rodrigo_, back to n-m, we tend to try to not rush into infrastructure changes
<seb128> rodrigo_, especially if the component is used out of GNOME, in KDE for example
<rodrigo_> right
<seb128> better to take time and test and rebase that correctly
<seb128> hey ricotz
<ricotz> seb128, hi
<seb128> ricotz, the GNOME3 ppa is not a rolling unstable distro, if people want to upgrade the archive they will switch to oneiric, could you limit updates to GNOME?
<seb128> i.e you pushed an updated telepathy stack there which is not really what the ppa is for
<ricotz> seb128, i am just trying to keep the dependencies updated and telepathy is pretty much integrated in gnome-shell for its native chat-client
<seb128> well I doubt the shell relies on gabble for example
<seb128> that's just a protocol manager
<seb128> the telepathy guys have a ppa also, maybe depends on it rather than redoing the work?
<rodrigo_> ricotz, it would be great if you could push the gnome-shell stack to oneiric
<ricotz> ok, but it isnt really much work uploading the oneiric updates
<ricotz> seb128, suggesting to use more ppas isnt a good idea, i think
<seb128> ricotz, well the issue is not so much how much work is it but how likely the ppa is to break user systems by having too much crack
<ricotz> rodrigo_, there are still some things missing
<rodrigo_> ricotz, what's missing?
<ricotz> seb128, ok
<seb128> ricotz, I guess I suggest to restrain the number of changes pushed to stable users
<ricotz> rodrigo_, libgweather3, evolution-data-server3
<rodrigo_> ricotz, hmm, 3.0.0 does depend on e-d-s?
<seb128> ok, I can do the libgweather update
<seb128> doing that next
<rodrigo_> we have evo packages at  https://launchpad.net/~danilo/+archive/evolution
<ricotz> it is called libgweather3 in debian now
<rodrigo_> so maybe we should do the update?
<seb128> ricotz, is it?
<ricotz> rodrigo_, there is a package in the gnome3 ppa
<seb128> ricotz, http://packages.qa.debian.org/libg/libgweather/news/20110329T135632Z.html
<ricotz> seb128, yes
<rodrigo_> ricotz, oh, cool
<seb128> http://packages.qa.debian.org/libg/libgweather3.html is 404
<seb128> ricotz, where is libgweather3?
<ricotz> http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-gnome/desktop/experimental/libgweather3/#_desktop_experimental_libgweather3_
<rodrigo_> ricotz, hmm, can't see the evo packages in the PPA
<ricotz> rodrigo_, oh sorry it is in my testing ppa
<rodrigo_> ricotz, ah, ok
<ricotz> seb128, also gtkhtml4.0
<ricotz> will be needed for evolution
<seb128> ricotz, there is a sync request for gtkhtml, should be synced today
<ricotz> ok
<seb128> cyphermox started on the new evo
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, libnotify4-dev is now libnotify-dev?
<seb128> ricotz, the svn didn't get any update for 6 weeks, not sure we need to rename the source
<ricotz> cyphermox, yeah i talked to him
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> ricotz, libgweather's svn I mean
<ricotz> seb128, mhh, i see, but the current packaging in the gnome3 ppa doesnt fit eds dependencies of debian
<ricotz> another thing: is someone having problem with X since today which doesnt take any keyboard or mouse commands
<pitti> seb128: taking glade merge as well, prerequisite for vte
<seb128> pitti, ok, we might just be able to sync that one
<pitti> yeah, investigating whether we have a delta in glade-3
<pitti> I'll remove glade-3 and sync/merge glade, to get back to the names Debian has
<seb128> hum
<ricotz> pitti, syncing it will ftbfs
<seb128> pitti, you can do that for now but we will need to keep glade-3
<pitti> seb128: how so? it's just a different package name of our's?
<pitti> ricotz: you already tried it?
<ricotz> it will need a fix for some gir package deps like atk
<seb128> ricotz, it should not with the new atk merge
 * pitti will build it locally anyway
<ricotz> the atk-dev package doesnt depend on the atk gir
<seb128> pitti, debian moved away from listing the gir in build-depends but make the dev depends on the gir
<seb128> ricotz, it does in oneiric, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/atk1.0/2.0.0-1ubuntu1
<pitti> ricotz: it does now
<ricotz> ah ok, i tried a week ago
<seb128> pitti, so glade, short story, we need a glade-gtk2 still, some people maintain gtk2 applications and will need to be able to keep doing so
<ricotz> https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3/+build/2486963
<seb128> ricotz, in any case if that fails we just need to fix the libraries and retry
<seb128> it's not a diff in glade
<ricotz> yes, that should be a case
<pitti> seb128: i. e. we should rename the binaries of glade-3 to something like glade-gtk2?
<pitti> seb128: but the .ui files should work for GTK 2 as well; perhaps it has a GTK 2 compat mode, I'll check once it's built
<ricotz> seb128, oh, did you get my mail about the missing patch in nautilus?
<seb128> ricotz, yes but it's not missing?
<seb128> pitti, just get the new glade for now, I will add a workitem to investigate how it works for gtk2 softwares and if we need to bring back a glade-gtk2
<seb128> pitti, but that can be done later in the cycle
<pitti> ok
<pitti> this dependency sounds a bit weird anyway (vte depending on libgladeui)
<pitti> but *shrug* dependency hell :)
<seb128> ricotz, I renamed the patches to have consistent numbers
<seb128> ricotz, but the patch is here and in the serie or I'm missing something?
<ricotz> seb128, ah sorry, you are right, i looked for the specific named one :(
<ricotz> 08_... is it
<seb128> ricotz, no worry, thanks for checking that things don't get broken ;-)
<seb128> right
<ricotz> so nobody has problems with X after the latest oneiric updates?
<seb128> I didn't dist-upgrade, just picked selected desktop components to avoid those sort of issues ;-)
<pitti> erk, DSL reconnect
<pitti> nautilus binNEWed on all arches, libgnomekbd binNEWed on i386/amd64
<ricotz> i already reverted some packages, but no luck :(
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> ricotz, try asking on #ubuntu-x in case
<ricotz> afaik there was no x related package updated
<seb128> ricotz, what sort of issue do you get?
<pitti> seb128: current glade supports gtk 2.20, 2.22, 2.24, and 3.0
<pitti> seb128: IMHO that should suffice
<seb128> pitti, great
<pitti> builds and works fine
 * pitti syncs/removes glade-3, the binaries of glade-3 will be shadowed anyway, so we'll need to re-do that if we need it
<seb128> pitti, I keep the work item because I want to check what's the deal with custom widgets
<pitti> right
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> ok, now we really need a theme :p
<seb128> my desktop start being not nice
<pitti> yeah, looks ugly
<ricotz> seb128, normal boot until gdm where no mouse or keyboards works (really nothing, not tty switching), killing gdm over ssh make the ttys usable again -- using startx result in the same result no input works
<pitti> makes it easier to see which parts already got moved to gnome 3 :)
<ricotz> seb128, reverting updates like dbus, udev, policykit didnt solve it
<seb128> when did it break?
<ricotz> since updating at 17:30 yesterday
<ricotz> worked after an update 4 hours earlier
<seb128> there was not so many updates yesterday
<seb128> did anything got removed?
<seb128> what got upgraded in that upgrade run?
<seb128> seems the most likely would be udev but you downgraded that one already you said
<seb128> lunch, bbl
<pitti> oops, we still need glade-3 for libgladeui-1-dev; reuploading then, *sigh*
<ricotz> seb128, upgrades: udev, policykit, libnotify, avahi, libunique, zenity, gnome-desktop3,
<pitti> seb128: argh, glade needs the gtk-3-dev -> gir1.2 dependency, so I'll merge gtk3 next, and then give this back
<pitti> looong dep chain
<lool> didrocks: FYI, the bug about the wrong date being highlighted that I had mentioned to you seems to be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/+bug/750992
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 750992 in indicator-datetime "Date/time indicator says it's the wrong date" [Low,Confirmed]
<didrocks> maybe that one should be on the SRU list?
<lool> didrocks: The other one is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/+bug/721572
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 721572 in indicator-datetime "time = 00:00 or resuming across midnight still shows yesterdays date" [Low,Triaged]
<lool> didrocks: I'm hitting that latter one regularly, time is basically incorrect for one minute after resuming
<lool> didrocks: I don't feel strongly about SRU-ing this stuff, first step would be to fix in oneiric
<didrocks> lool: yeah, make sense after our discussion, not sure how this can be fixed properly without being hackish
<didrocks> (I meant: no signal on resume)
<lool> maybe there's a signal whenever it gets painted?
<didrocks> well, the issue is that the buffer is the same right now in nux (hence the issue with nvidia on resume where the buffer has been destroyed and no notification of that)
<didrocks> let's wait on karl to have a proper look
<seb128> pitti, there is a new point version of gtk while you are at it if you feel like doing it ;-)
<seb128> ricotz, weird, nothing in there should break xorg
<pitti> seb128: can do; I'm test-building my merge right now and will have lunch while it's building
<pitti> after that I'll upgrade
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> vte is building locally now \o/
 * pitti will upload and let depwait sort it out
<ricotz> seb128, it seems not be really broken, it "just" looses the input handling stuff/rights :\ pretty weird
<seb128> didrocks, njpatel: so one of the most frequent complain on natty is that notification area icons (i.e skype) often are 1 pixel icons until you restart skype or the pnael
<seb128> some people said it's a compiz 0.9 issue, it happens in unity and classic GNOME and some people downgraded compiz and said it fixes it in classic
<seb128> just pointing it because it seems like something someone should investigate (sam?)
<njpatel> interesting
<njpatel> seb128, yes, sam could take a look, and also I can make sure that Unity is giving the correct sizes for the tray icons (or at least a minimum size)
<seb128> we get a few bugs, comments about that every day so I can give you pointers if needed
<seb128> njpatel, bug #767095 is the one getting most comments
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 767095 in gnome-panel "1 pixel icons in notification-area-applet for qt softwares (e.g. Skype)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/767095
<njpatel> thanks dude
<didrocks> seb128: njpatel: I asked sam to have a look during the sprint, didn't get more info though
<njpatel> didrocks, seb128 is it only Qt stuff?
<didrocks> njpatel: I only saw complaint on Qt apps from my part
<seb128> njpatel, the comments are mostly or all qt applications ones
<njpatel> interesting...
<seb128> the most frequent is skype
<njpatel> okay,I've added it to my todo, let me finish all the meetings and then I'll try and have a look (ping me if I don't have an answer by thurs :)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks
<geser> seb128: did you had time to look into the pidgin FTBFS cjwatson asked about? I tried building the version from Debian in my pbuilder and it worked so I planned to check what delta caused it this evening if you didn't look into it yet (or anybody else)
<pedro_> top of the morning!
<seb128> hey pedro_! how are you?
<seb128> geser, I didn't yet no, if you want to do it you are welcome to
<pedro_> hello seb128! I'm good, thanks. how are you?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<seb128> hey mterry, still jetlagged? ;-)
<mterry> seb128, yeah, a little.  ;)
<seb128> mterry, do you want me to commit your libpeas .symbols to the debian svn?
<mterry> seb128, ah yeah, I was going to file a bug with debian, but that's more direct.  ;)
<seb128> mterry, ok, will do
<seb128> mvo, hey
<seb128> mvo, is there anything still keeping synaptic on the CD?
<mvo> seb128: I don' tknow, I need to check, but I think we convert all of it by now
<mvo> seb128: all of it to aptdaemon, iirc last time the codec installer was missing
<seb128> mvo, ok, so we can drop it from the CD?
<seb128> mvo, or will you hate us if we do that? ;-)
<mvo> I will hate you and someone needs to double check that there are really no dependencies left anymore
<mvo> but otherwise, just go ahead
<mvo> it *might* be that software-properties-gtk is still using it for its reload, but see #ubuntu-devel for the way forward(tm)
<seb128> mvo, ok, thanks (it's your comment on #ubuntu-devel which reminded me about itÃ 
<seb128> )
<mvo> :)
<ricotz> seb128, yeah, it is a udev/base-files problem caused by a existing /run folder
<ricotz> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=626604
<ubot2> Debian bug 626604 in xorg "xorg: X server disables mouse and keyboard upon starting (Thinkpad T420 4180W1H)" [Important,Open]
<seb128> ricotz, ok
<ricotz> not sure, but perhaps the udev upgrade created it
<ricotz> pitti, ^
<jbicha> ricotz: I saw your work on g-c-c 3.1.1 where you just patched configure directory instead of using dh_autoreconf
<jbicha> is that a better approach?
<jbicha> *directly
<ricotz> jbicha, g-c-c is just and sync, you mean gnome-system-monitor?
<pitti> ricotz: we don't yet create /run; do you get a regression with latest oneiric udev?
<pitti> works fine here
<ricotz> pitti, somehow /run got created here, but i dont know when
<ricotz> which results in the bug i mentioned
<seb128> jbicha, ricotz: no, don't work on 3.1 yet
<seb128> we want to land the stable 3 first before adding another unstable stack
<ricotz> jbicha, i only added some 3.1.1 package to my testing ppa
<ricotz> besides the one which are already in oneiric like mousetweaks ...
<jbicha> ricotz: yes, I guess I'm just stumbling over my words today
<seb128> ricotz, you should really consider contributing to proper ubuntu packages rather than doing a crack ppa on your side ;-)
<seb128> jbicha, hey, do you look for things to do?
<ricotz> seb128, i want bleeding edge at least for g-s and mutter ;)
<ricotz> seb128, another package would be gtkmm3.0 which need to get in
<jbicha> seb128: yes, I'm not much of a programmer but can do some things
<seb128> ricotz, that one seems something that should go in debian and synced ideally
<ricotz> seb128, yes, somehow it is delayed there, the branch already exists though
<seb128> jbicha, we do mostly packaging around, feel free to grab any merge on upgrade from http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html
<seb128> jbicha, the gnome-settings-daemon or eog 3.0.0 to 3.0.1 updates should be easy
<seb128> jbicha, or gucharmap or seahorse should be doable but a bit harder
<seb128> or vino
<seb128> ricotz, ^ same for you if you feel like doing some merges or updates for oneiric
<ricotz> jbicha, in case of gnome-system-monitor autoreconf doesnt work, so the manual patch was needed
<kinouchou> hello #ubuntu-desktop
<seb128> lut kinouchou, ca va ?
<seb128> ricotz, how does it fail?
<kinouchou> salut seb128 oui :)
<ricotz> seb128, it deletes some po/Makefiles which results in an error
<jbicha> here's one workaround I had to do for dh_autoreconf: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650150
<ubot2> Gnome bug 650150 in general "FTBFS because vinagre uses both gettext and intltool" [Major,Needinfo]
<seb128> jbicha, there is a few mir that need to be written still if you feel like doing those, that would be quite useful since packagers tend to delay those and they are often blockers after a while, thanks for doing the seed and libpeas one!
<ricotz> seb128, it might be caused by the cdbs call order
<ricotz> not sure
<seb128> oh
<jbicha> but I'm still stuck on a DSO error with vinagre
<ricotz> g2g
<ricotz> bye all
<kinouchou> et toi seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> kinouchou, ca va bien
<seb128> jbicha, the DSO error means you lack a -l<libthatdefinesthesymbol>
<seb128> jbicha, it's usually the pkgconfig checks in the configure.ac which don't list a library needed
<seb128> jbicha, try http://git.gnome.org/browse/vinagre/commit/?id=808294134dccaca9dbcb949c5ffdd54cbb764a3d
<seb128> jbicha, seems similar to your issue
<jbicha> seb128: yes, I believe I tried that and it didn't fix it
<jbicha> but I'll play with it some more
<seb128> jbicha, did you run autoreconf after applying it? is your vcs somewhere I can get it? do you want me to have a look
<cyphermox> seb128, didrocks, care to ack/process a sync for gtkhtml4.0? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/783971
<jbicha> seb128: that could very well be my problem
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 783971 in ubuntu "Sync gtkhtml4.0 4.0.0-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<didrocks> cyphermox: I think cjwatson is on sync review today
<seb128> cyphermox, it has been synced?
<seb128> hey cyphermox btw
<seb128> ;-)
<cyphermox> nah, and it also should be acked afaik; I seem to always forget about -s to requestsync ;)
<cyphermox> hey ;)
<seb128> cyphermox, well, maybe there was 2 bugs about it, it has been synced and newed
<cyphermox> since i'm not in the team yet it should be acked by someone ;)
<cyphermox> oh really?
<cjwatson> cyphermox: I already synced that
<cyphermox> crap
<cyphermox> sorry
<cjwatson> *shrug*
<seb128> cyphermox, you already opened a bug about it during UDS
<jbicha> except that the LPI patch should have called autoreconf I'd think
<seb128> which is the one who got closed
<cyphermox> heh
<seb128> which
<cyphermox> weird, I was looking at rmadison to make sure..
<cjwatson> bug 781046
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 781046 in ubuntu "Sync gtkhtml4.0 4.0.0-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781046
<cjwatson> probably timing, it was quite recent.
<seb128> well, it was synced and newed quite recently
<cjwatson> I'll dup it
<seb128> cyphermox, do you work on eds next?
<cyphermox> seb128: eds is ready, so is evolution
<seb128> oh ok
<cyphermox> cjwatson: I already invalidated it
<seb128> subscribe sponsors ;-)
<cyphermox> seb128: yeah, just about to push my branches
<seb128> jbicha, do you want me to check on it?
<seb128> jbicha, do you target oneiric or the ppa with the update you work on?
<jbicha> usually the PPA but I've been building on oneiric
<seb128> jbicha, we are back from UDS and working actively on oneiric so feel free to target oneiric, you should get help or review easily
<jbicha> unless the g3 version is already in oneiric
<seb128> jbicha, we works from http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html
<seb128> jbicha, vinagre didn't get updated yet no
<jbicha> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/vinagre/vinagre-3.0.1
<seb128> jbicha, ready to review or do you need help fixing an issue?
<jbicha> I am stuck on the DSO problem still
<cyphermox> seb128: agree EDS should be a simple sync from Debian experimental?
<seb128> jbicha, ok, having a look to it
<seb128> cyphermox, can't agree without reviewing it first, we used to have a diff iirc
<seb128> cyphermox, they dropped the provider dir versioning they had?
<seb128> cyphermox, I can have a look after I checked jbicha's vinagre issue
<seb128> jbicha, what error do you get?
<jbicha> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/609010/
<jbicha> does it build for you?
<seb128> jbicha, yes, but I'm still on a natty toolchain basically
<pitti> seb128: FYI, syncing gvfs; the only difference is that we have a leak fix backported from trunk, but the next upstream update (1.8.1) will fix that as well, so I don't bother
<seb128> pitti, "syncing"?
<seb128> pitti, like debian syncing?
<pitti> yes
<pitti> 1.8.0-0ubuntu1 -> -1
<seb128> pitti, hum, I though we splitted binaries in a different way and have quite some diff
<pitti> seb128: yes, Debian merged libgvfscommon0 back into gvfs
<seb128> like debian made their libgvfs private or something
<pitti> but it doesn't have rdependencies
<pitti> I don't see why we should keep that delta?
<seb128> pitti, no reason, I'm just surprised it's the only delta, we didn't merge since jaunty and iirc previous cycle you said merging was work over what the effort was worth
<seb128> pitti, I though we had a different split of where backends were installed or some other bits
<pitti> seb128: Debian finally got a current version; before it had a rather old one
<seb128> pitti, but if your reviewed the diff and are confident it's fine go for it, I was about to update to 1.8.1 but we can do that later
<seb128> jbicha, btw I commented on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650150 about the proper fix for the intltool issue
<ubot2> Gnome bug 650150 in general "FTBFS because vinagre uses both gettext and intltool" [Major,Needinfo]
<pitti> seb128: I'm currently doing a test build and compare the binaries and do an upgrade test, etc.
<pitti> seb128: just announcing that I'm working on it
<seb128> pitti, ok great
<seb128> pitti, thanks!
<pitti> gtk3 still building as well, my computer is quite slow :)
<cdbs> seb128: So when all GNOME3 packages land in Oneiric, Unity will break, right? Is upstream Unity work going on to fix that?
<seb128> cdbs, why should it break?
<pitti> unity working fine here, FWIW
<cdbs> seb128: Uhm, it broke when one used Natty + PPA, right?
<seb128> we shouldn't land anything that break unity before it's ready
<seb128> cdbs, the session start you mean?
<cdbs> seb128: Yes
<seb128> that's a gnome-session issue, we will not upload that before it's sorted
<cdbs> seb128: and there were some theming issues as well
<seb128> theming is not really a breakage but it's being worked
<seb128> kenvandine, speaking of which any news on that? ;-)
<cdbs> seb128: Maybe that was fixed later on, but Unity would output several debug messages, and the dash would fail to open when the PPA is being used (this was in Natty beta 1, stuff must have changed in unity since)
<kenvandine> seb128, Cimi said he has an engine, which i need to get packaged
<kenvandine> but no theme yet
<kenvandine> seb128, in a meeting now
<seb128> ok
<seb128> cdbs, we don't upload things that would break unity don't worry
<cdbs> :)
<cdbs> thanks seb128
<seb128> jbicha, it might be that your rules hack prevent the configure to be updated, that's what it was doing there
<seb128> jbicha, which leads to your bug
<cdbs> I know one isn't supposed to use Oneiric on a production system, but I prefer my machine to be okay enough to get to a VT to fix stuff easily, atleast
<seb128> jbicha, try dropping the rules hack and drop rather the 2 configure.ac lines I listed in the bugzilla bug
<pitti> our remaining delta in gnome-vfs doesn't look very important any more, given that it is only used by some 10 programs still; we could just sync and forget about it for good..
<seb128> pitti, or we could just not care or let it as it is now it's fine
<pitti> can we blacklist stuff from versions.html?
<jbicha> seb128: ok, I'll do that, also on gucharmap I don't understand this diff: http://paste.ubuntu.com/609018/
<cdbs> The GNOME3 blueprint whiteboard seems cut off at the end
<cdbs> "(my proposal is to"
<seb128> pitti, you can list it in l1035 obsolete_gnome_packages =...
<seb128> pitti, it's a list of obsolete sources to ignore
<pitti> seb128: gvfs built; the only difference (aside from including libgvfscommon) is that debian ships the burn backend in gvfs, while we ship it in gvfs-backends
<pitti> seb128: ah, will do
<seb128> pitti, ok, I guess we can just put a replace
<seb128> pitti, do you have access to the debian pkg-gnome svn?
<pitti> seb128: I don't
<pitti> seb128: but we can add it to ubuntu now, and drop it for good after 12.04
<seb128> pitti, ok, can you upload to ubuntu (and update to 1.8.1 while you are at maybe?), I will add the Replaces to the debian svn
<pitti> seb128: ah, will do
<seb128> pitti, it shouldn't cost anything to debian so we can as well put it there
<seb128> so we can sync on the next update
<pitti> it already has a Conflicts:, just needs to be bumped (and the replaces added)
<seb128> I'm trying to set a pbuilder for unstable so I can do those updates to Debian directly from now on
<seb128> pitti, do we need a Replaces if there is a Conflict? I think some of pkg-gnome guys consider Conflicts to be enough
<seb128> but I'm never sure about those
 * pitti uses a dchroot, faster; but of course pbuilder is cleaner
<pitti> seb128: debian policy says to use breaks:/replaces for file moving
<pitti> i. e. transitional things
<seb128> right, but since there is a conflicts there I'm not sure added a replaces is needed
<seb128> anyway doesn't hurt
<pitti> apparently it helps apt for easier upgrades
<seb128> I should perhaps set a dchroot rather
<seb128> I just went for the first howto I find on the ubuntu wiki to set an unstable build environment ;-)
<pitti> I wouldn't mind doing the upstream release directly in Debian either
<pitti> depends on whether the Debian gnome folks would want me to, and give me access
<seb128> jbicha, gucharmap> the build things were required for the multibuilds for python which has been dropped since it only build a gir now so you just need the autoreconf line
<seb128> pitti, just come on #debian-gnome on oftc and ask for commit access
<didrocks> my pbuilderrc works well for that if you want (based from the ubuntu wiki and slightely tweaked): http://paste.ubuntu.com/609020/
<seb128> pitti, there is enough people that know you there
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: I have a hook dir, not sure you want that btw
<seb128> didrocks, no need, I just want to build binaries
<didrocks> seb128: hooks can be nice if you build package B depending on package A you just built, but yeah, apart from that, I don't have a huge use of them (apart from dropping me in the shell and installing vim in case of FTBFS to inspect what went wrong
<didrocks> oh, and my list-missing to be picky ;)
 * kinouchou hugs didrocks 
<didrocks> salut kinouchou! :)
<jbicha> seb128: so keep the Debian stuff in gucharmap rules?
<seb128> jbicha, yes, just copy the debian version and add back the autoreconf line basically
<seb128> jbicha, did you try if my vinagre suggestion fixes your build issue?
<jbicha> seb128: no, it doesn't fix the DSO thing but it does the original gettext bug report
<seb128> jbicha, did you drop the rules hack?
<jbicha> yes
<seb128> jbicha, can you check in your configure that the .ac change get applied there?
<seb128> especially the git backport your did
<pitti> seb128: that was fast :)
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I'll bump the conflicts/replaces as well then
<jbicha> actually, maybe I didn't do it right
<rodrigo_> when rebasing packages from debian, if the debian one is 3.0.0-2, the ubuntu one should be 3.0.0-2ubuntuX, right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> dch -i gets it correctly then :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw any reason you didn't upgrade g-s-d to the current version while you were at it before?
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, it's already in 3.0.1
<rodrigo_> hmm
<seb128> rodrigo_, no it's not?
<jbicha> seb128: I think that fixes it, I found something else I need to fix though, thanks!
<seb128> jbicha, you're welcome
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, checking again
<rodrigo_> seb128, right, it's 3.0.0.1, sorry, my fault
<seb128> rodrigo_, no worry ;-)
<seb128> pitti, btw while you are at debian update doing d-conf would be nice as well, I will do it later if you don't (downloading a debian iso now, I decided to go for a vm install rather than pbuilder so I can do some testing as well)
<pitti> seb128: sure, added to pad
<rodrigo_> hey pedro_! you found 'from lost to the river'!!!
<rodrigo_> pedro_, did you start reading it?
<seb128> pitti, hum, did you mean to sync 1.8.0?
<pedro_> rodrigo_, I did at the airport , it's hilarious!
<pitti> seb128: I didn't
<seb128> pitti, it will conflict on the splitted lib and the backend?
<pitti> seb128: preparing the 1.8.1 Debian update right now
<rodrigo_> pedro_, cool, don't forget to tell me about the funny ones, I almost forgot all of them :)
<seb128> pitti, ok, 1.8.0 is on oneiric-changes
<pitti> oops
<seb128> pitti, not sure how it landed there
<pitti> anyway, I'll fix it
<seb128> ok
<pitti> gtk3 finished building, testing that ATM
<jbicha> I don't have a good understanding of what gir is for, should we build it for all packages possible?
<pitti> jbicha: if upstream supports it, would be nice, yes
<pitti> jbicha: see http://live.gnome.org/GObjectIntrospection for what it is
<jbicha> ok, why does http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/gedit/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/gir1.2-gedit-3.0.install
<jbicha> store its gir in girepository-1.0
<jbicha> is is 1.0 or 1.2?
<seb128> jbicha, that's confusing, the directory name doesn't match the abi version
<jbicha> so how do I know which to name the package?
<seb128> jbicha, it's named after the typelib name
<jbicha> I have Vinagre-3.0.typelib
<seb128> jbicha, so it's gir1.2-vinagre-3.0
<jbicha> how do I know it's gir1.2 though?
<seb128> mterry, I've added you to the gnomecc mailing list whitelist
<mterry> seb128, thank you!  ;)
<seb128> yw
<seb128> jbicha, look at the version= in the .gir
<seb128> jbicha, but basically it's the current gobject-instropection abi version, it's the same accross the archive, we are at 1.2
<jbicha> oh ok, thanks, it's 1.2
<seb128> cyphermox, ok, so e-d-s to sync?
<jcastro> pitti: how often does the work item graph generate?
<pitti> jcastro: hourly
<jcastro> ok and one more question. I have some WI's that are on other team's specs; is there a way to show them on my team graph?
<jcastro> so for example my manager reads our team graph, but if I have WI's for other teams he has no way of measuring that.
<jcastro> or do we just need to track them both and deal with it?
<pitti> jcastro: that should already happen, doesn't it?
<pitti> jcastro: e. g. the desktop team chart shows the union of WIs for desktop team specs and desktop team members
<pitti> jcastro: e. g. http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team.html has some dx-* and cloud-server-* bits
<jcastro> pitti: right, I mean the other way around, so those under "jorge" don't show up in the canonical-community-team report.
<pitti> jcastro: can you point me to a specific example?
<jcastro> ok so on that page you just linked
<jcastro> look at the work items for "jorge"
<pitti> yes
<jcastro> ok so
<jcastro> those items do NOT show up on my team page: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-community.html
<jcastro> so really, I am looking for a way to find out what "jorge" is responsible for for a cycle, regardless of team
<pitti> jcastro: ok, I must be blind -- I see all WIs on that desktop team page on canonical-community.html as well
<cyphermox> seb128: yeah, I think it's a sync
<seb128> cyphermox, ok, I've synced it
<cyphermox> ok, thanks
<cyphermox> sorry, busy with the plumber right now
<pitti> jcastro: oh, you mean http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/u/jorge.html perhaps?
<seb128> cyphermox, if you have evolution ready you can ping didrocks to get it reviewed
<cyphermox> yeah
<seb128> cyphermox, no worry
<pitti> jcastro: btw, ~pitti -> ~platform please
<didrocks> seb128: he already did (for e-d-s :p, waiting for evo)
<seb128> speaking of which, didrocks if you recommend cyphermox for desktop upload please reply on the list to his email he sent about that ;-)
<jcastro> pitti: woo! that's exactly what I need!
<cyphermox> will e-d-s/gtkhtml need MIRs or is it already good w.r.t making sure they still end in main?
<jcastro> sorry to sound so confusing
<seb128> same for others
<pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter: reminder for meeting in 8 minutes (will presumably be very quick)
<seb128> cyphermox, no need of mirs, they are new version of sources which are there
<rodrigo_> pitti, ok
<cyphermox> yeah, just making sure
 * rodrigo_ goes to get some drink
<kenvandine> indeed
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, non-alcoholic eh!! :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, yeah yeah we believe that
<seb128> ;-)
<rodrigo_> :D
<seb128> there is no alcohol in beer right? ;-)
<rodrigo_> no, afaik
<rodrigo_> but now I'm drinking gazpacho :)
<tkamppeter> hi
<rodrigo_> hi tkamppeter
<kenvandine> hehe
<pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter: meeting starts
<pitti> hello everyone
<didrocks> hey
<tremolux> heyo
<seb128> hey
<rodrigo_> he
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-05-17
 * bryceh_ waves
<chrisccoulson> hi!
 * pedro_ waves
 * bryceh_ <-- still rather jet lagged
<pitti> I hope that the Ubuflu didn't spread too much?
<rodrigo_> not this way :)
<chrisccoulson> i've got quite a sore throat today
<cyphermox> o/
<tremolux> feeling fine so far  ;)
<cyphermox> feeling fine too :)
<pedro_> chrisccoulson, same here...
<pitti> from my POV I just wanted to do a couple of quick announcements
<pedro_> i blame rancell
<pitti> (1) dist-upgrades to oneiric seem to work reasonably for at least two people, so if you wonder how safe it is, take the plunge
<mterry> hi
<mvo> upgrade worked for me just fine
<pitti> known issues are ugly programs due to a missing GTK 3 theme, a non-configuring ca-certificates-java (can just be ignored for now)
<cyphermox> fwiw, dist-upgrade worked fine for me too
<pitti> otherwise it worked pretty well
<seb128> be ready for extra breakages though
<rodrigo_> pitti, about the ugly theme, I suggest people to set Adwaita via gsettings or gnome-tweak-tool
<pitti> we are working heavily on gnome 3 upgrades, though
<rodrigo_> oh, but you need th themes packages from the ppa, so forget what I said :)
<seb128> like the new gnome-media landed which drop some of the binaries that moved to gnome-control-center but that one didn't land yet
<pitti> please see and use http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/oneiric-desktop for coordination who is working on what ATM
<jbicha> and gnome-tweak-tool won't work without gnome-shell so perhaps it should be a dependency
<seb128> rodrigo_, the theme package should be in oneiric?
<rodrigo_> seb128, it's not yet afaik
<seb128> rodrigo_, how is it named?
<rodrigo_> gnome-themes-standard iirc
<seb128> rodrigo_, Filename: pool/universe/g/gnome-themes-standard/gnome-themes-standard_3.0.0-2_i386.deb
<pitti> also, did everyone get my email about blueprint drafting? There are already some "pending review", let's get the others WI-ified and drafted this week, shall we?
<bryceh_> pitti, ok good to hear, I'll update my test boxen today
<pitti> that's it from my side, I leave the floor to announcements/help requests/asking for coordination of oneiric updates
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, that can just be synced directly, right?
<didrocks> mine should be all set (under "pending approval"), try to push dx to do the same
<kenvandine> pitti, will do
<seb128> rodrigo_, it's synced from debian yes
<rodrigo_> pitti, oh, was not sure about my 'reduce # of patches' blueprint, since we decided to do it as we updated, so no work items there, so what should I do?
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, cool
<pitti> rodrigo_: that should be a no-op to review; just add the initial set of WIs, and I'll quick-review it
<rodrigo_> pitti, ok
<bryceh_> pitti, 'pending review' - do you mean 'review' or 'pending approval'?
<pitti> rodrigo_: as this is both target of opportunity and also quite straightforward; there might be some real design decisions about the gnome 3 control-center handling, though
<pitti> bryceh_: either really; doesn't make much of a difference from my POV
<rodrigo_> pitti, ok
<bryceh_> ok, I've set mine to review
<seb128> rodrigo_, pitti: speaking about the reduce patches we should probably add work items there about patches we cross that might be candidate to upstream but that we don't have time to upstream on the first merge round
<rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, sounds good, I'll prepare the bp for review
<seb128> I've added a few notes about such cases to the etherpad but they could go in the spec
<pitti> sounds like a good idea
<pitti> at least it's much easier to find them then
<seb128> right
<seb128> it would also make a nice list to pick in for whoever is interested to help on that
<seb128> urg, pitti will hate that
<pitti> ?
<seb128> http://cdn.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/gnome-icon-theme/
<seb128> pitti, see the 2.32 and 3 debs
<pitti> 3.7 -> 25 MB?
<seb128> right
<pitti> seb128: well, one of my WIs is to drop it from the default install
<pitti> but anyway, this seems a bit excessive
<pitti> does it build PNGs for any and all sizes?
<seb128> well I think they put lot of 256x256 icons for gnome-shell
<seb128> so alt-tab etc look nice
<seb128> anyway not a meeting topic
<seb128> sorry, I just cross it and though I would mention it
<mterry> Is that it?
<seb128> pitti, stop fighting svn and keep going with the meeting :p
<kenvandine> :-)
<pitti> sorry, as I already said, I don't have other topics
<pitti> so I guess adjourned, if nobody else has stuff to discuss
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> thanks pitti ;-)
<seb128> let's get GNOME3 in then :p
<pitti> have fun with GNOME 3!
<rodrigo_> :)
<seb128> mterry, will you do anjuta btw?
<chrisccoulson> pitti, got a couple of minutes?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: what's up?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - so, it seems like firefox 4 will get no more maintenance once firefox 5 is released in just over a month
<chrisccoulson> which means we need to start planning to upgrade natty already :(
<chrisccoulson> pitti - as discussed at UDS, that will also involve splitting firefox translations out of language packs too
<didrocks> (fighting svn and taking 10 hours for the whole checkout really got on my nerves last time I pushed something to the debian gnome svnâ¦)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: urgh, that soudns rather intrusive
<pitti> didrocks: I didn't check out the entire thing
<didrocks> pitti: wise man :-)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah. but if we don't do that then the security team need to respin and test language packs every 6 weeks ;)
<mterry> seb128, sure
<pitti> chrisccoulson: don't we need to test them anyway?
<seb128> mterry, thanks ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, I don't check the entire svn either
<chrisccoulson> pitti - for the firefox translations, yes. but i don't want them to have to rebuild and test all of the language packs every few weeks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, right
<chrisccoulson> especially as language packs were a bit of a bottleneck when we upgraded from firefox 3.0 -> 3.6
<didrocks> seb128: that was when I was motived to push a lot and rather than checking out every single components one after the otherâ¦
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I think we'd need to do a full langpack -base update in conjunction with the ffox 5 upgrade, though
<pitti> chrisccoulson: well, firefox-l10n-l* can certainly Replaces: language-pack-* for this issue
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that's fine. but once we've done that, then future updates should be a bit easier
<pitti> but the langpacks already replace each other back and forth, not sure how stable that will be
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right
<chrisccoulson> pitti - that's why i'm mentioning it now :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: the langpack-o-matic changes to stop adding XPIs are trivial
<seb128> do we have someone who knows about IT_PROG_INTLTOOL and AM_GNU_GETTEXT there?
<seb128> dobey, ^?
<seb128> they seem to conflict, which one is the correct to use?
<seb128> is there some clear GNOME documentation on that?
<seb128> rodrigo_, ^
<seb128> we have several patches that drop AM_GNU_GETTEXT to fix build issues
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, I think glib had yet another one, dobey should know better
<seb128> cf https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650150 for example
<ubot2> Gnome bug 650150 in general "FTBFS because vinagre uses both gettext and intltool" [Major,Needinfo]
<rodrigo_> I think AM_GNU_GETTEXT is the correct one
<seb128> or https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=627789
<ubot2> Gnome bug 627789 in general "Don't use both AM_GLIB_GNU_GETTEXT and IT_PROG_INTLTOOL" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<pitti> bbl, supermarket
<rodrigo_> seb128, danilo also should know better, afaik
<seb128> where is danilo? ;-)
<rodrigo_> if dobey's not around, as I think he was sick when leaving budapest
<rodrigo_> seb128, in #canonical
<seb128> rodrigo_, right, I pinged him there
<jbicha> libpeas-WARNING **: Could not find loader 'seed' for plugin 'im-status'
<jbicha> does that mean anything to you? I finally got vinagre to build but am having trouble getting it to work right
<seb128> jbicha, is seed installed?
<jbicha> yes
 * Sweetshark looks around. Meeting now?
<didrocks> Sweetshark: was one hour ago :)
<didrocks> Sweetshark: you can try to blame jet lag, not sure it will work ;)
<micahg> fridge was showing 16:30 UTC
<didrocks> fridge isn't updated then, we decided to move it one hour ago a month before
<Sweetshark> this is the weekly reminder for today's desktop team meeting at 16:30
<Sweetshark> UTC.
<seb128> jbicha, seems like it's not finding something, can you push you work somewhere so I can have a look?
<Sweetshark> ^- didrocks: from pittis email reminder.
<seb128> right, he probably forgot to update the text
<Sweetshark> meh
 * Sweetshark is timezoned.
<didrocks> right and nobody noticed ;)
 * Sweetshark was here at the appointed time ;)
<seb128> like I had time to read what pitti writes :p
<didrocks> seb128: come on, you have time, you are just deliberatly ignoring, isn't it? :p
<seb128> ;-)
<jbicha> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/vinagre/vinagre-3.0.1 but I had to use dconf-editor to disable
<jbicha> the VNC plugin in org.gnome.vinagre
<jbicha> which is a bigger problem than the IM plugin which I could just disable
<seb128> jbicha, ok, let me have a look
<seb128> jbicha, why is VNC_CFLAGS needed?
<pitti> argh yes, sorry about the wrong time in the reminder
<pitti> Sweetshark: was nothing really important anyway
<seb128> jbicha, dh_install: usr/lib/vinagre-3.0/plugins/im-status.js exists in debian/tmp but is not installed to anywhere
<seb128> jbicha, I guess that explain your im-status issue
<seb128> jbicha, running dh_install --list-missing in the build dir after the build
<Sweetshark> pitti: I know. I went to the wiki page, feeling a bit guilty because I had so little to report, but recognized it was the same for others ;)
 * pitti sighs at the implicit pointer conversion in the GTK ubuntu menu proxy patch
<pitti> if only this package would work with -j4
<seb128> I still have somewhat on my todolist to make the rule just build the shared flavor if one environment variable is set
<pitti> well, I guess I can fix up the pointer conversions by just looking into one flavour
 * Sweetshark is currently heating the room with two LO compiles running at "-P4 -- -P4" ...
<Sweetshark> luckily there is ccache
<jbicha> seb128: ok, & without the CFLAGS I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/609082/
<seb128> jbicha, btw you should put the autoreconf rules before the debhelper one to avoid the .log generated in the debian dir
<seb128> jbicha, what issue do you have with vnc? vinagre runs fine there after building with the im-status installed
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw reviewing gnome-menus, the updates seems better but should not be uploaded
<seb128> rodrigo_, you should probably remove the merge request from now to make sure nobody upload it
<seb128> it breaks on gnome-panel << 2.91
 * didrocks was impressed by qtcreator taking 1h30 to build with -j4 hereâ¦
<seb128> which is blocked on unity and indicator to go to gtk3
 * pitti waves good night; dinner time, and then I need some time for some kitchen plumbing, and GTK 3 will build a while anyway
<seb128> 'night pitti
<didrocks> enjoy pitti
<jbicha> seb128: I get vinagre: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/vinagre-3.0/plugins/libvnc.so: undefined symbol: vnc_display_get_option_group
<seb128> jbicha, dpkg -l | grep libgtk-vnc-2.0-0
<jbicha> ii  libgtk-vnc-2.0-0                          0.4.3-2ubuntu1                             VNC viewer widget for GTK+3 (runtime libraries)
<seb128> ok, weird
<jbicha> but the im plugin still doesn't work for me
<jbicha> I added debian/tmp/usr/lib/vinagre-3.0/plugins/im-status.js to vinagre.install
<seb128> jbicha, hum, right, same here
<seb128> jbicha, can you run "ldd /usr/lib/vinagre-3.0/plugins/libvnc.so | grep vnc" about the vnc issue?
<jbicha> I just confirmed that the im plugin doesn't work on Fedora 15 either, so I'll report that
<seb128> thanks
<jbicha> seb128: I don't get anything vnc from that command
<seb128> jbicha, weird
<jbicha> did you change the rules file?
<seb128> hum, I commented the VNC_CFLAGS to see if it breaks there
<seb128> but that's about it
<seb128> jbicha, you can try commenting the LDFLAGS = --as-needed line to see if that makes a difference
<didrocks> ok, letting qt4-x11 downloading (215 Mg) but disconnecting and dinner. See you tomorrow!
<seb128> didrocks, have fun
<didrocks> have a good evening seb128 :)
<seb128> jbicha, it builds fine without VNC_CFLAGS in the rules there though
<seb128> there is something weird on your system
<seb128> rodrigo_, still there?
<hv> rodrigo_: ping.  any news about #649809
 * hv watches eagerly ...
<seb128> cyphermox, still there?
<seb128> lp #649809
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 649809 in gnome-settings-daemon "the session settings manager can try starting before the login screen one exits" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/649809
<dobey> seb128: what's up?
<seb128> dobey, cf the lines after the ping
<dobey> seb128: ugh, do people just not read documentation at all?
<seb128> dobey, when it comes to autotools I guess they don't ;-)
<dobey> hrmm
<dobey> is there a way to turn off the osd notifications in firefox for download finished?
<hv> in about:config ?
<dobey> hv: and which option would be for that? they are all undocumented
<hv> well, let me see ...
<dobey> and the only one that looks related, is already set to falseâ¦
<dobey> seb128: oh, looks like the documentation isn't up to date either. :(
<hv> browser.download.manager.showAlertOnComplete
<hv> I guess
<dobey> i hope so
<dobey> seb128: so the answer is that with intltool, you only need to call IT_PROG_INTLTOOL
<seb128> dobey, ok, thanks
<rayado> ..i wana know the name of the channel unbuntu in spanish ?
<dobey> guess i need to kill a bunch of intltool bugs soon and release a new version or three
<GunnarHj> Hi! Any backporter that has time to triage two MPs to lucid- and maverick-backports according to bug 778869?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 778869 in language-selector "[natty] fontconfig-voodoo -a does not work in Japanese locales" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/778869
<micahg> GunnarHj: those changes need to hit oneiric and natty before being backported
<GunnarHj> micahg: Ok, then I'll ask somebody about that first. Tnx.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-18
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso (who should be on holiday ;) ), robert_ancell (who should still be recovering from ubuflu) bryceh_ (who is american) and RAOF (who is generally a really nice guy...sweet chap)
<jasoncwarner> ready for meeting?
<jasoncwarner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-05-17
<jasoncwarner> probably quickest of the cycle!
<RAOF> Ok!
<RAOF> I'm now both in Hobart *and* awake!  It's awesome!
<jasoncwarner> everyone should be quite busy with blueprints and what not...anything else that someone would like to talk about?
<hv> rodrigo_: is there an early fix to the gnome-setting-daemon + libgnomekbd7 issue available, probably in a ppa?
<jasoncwarner> anyone blocked from getting blueprints done on anything?
<hv> !seen rodrigo_
<ubot2> I have no seen command
<hv> poor you!
<hv> !useful
<ubot2> Factoid 'useful' not found
<jasoncwarner> ok...I take it the non-response is a sign that everyone's blueprints are going swimmingly and it is sunny out where people are!
<RAOF> Well, it's not sunny out.
<jasoncwarner> well, hobart
<RAOF> But there's nothing blocking blueprints :)
<jasoncwarner> ;)
<hv> !useful bot
<ubot2> Factoid 'useful bot' not found
 * hv fails at bot abuse
<RAOF> hv: You'll find â/msg ubot2 $STUFFâ to be a more polite way of abusing the bot :)
 * hv apologizes to the bot and the readers of this channel
<RAOF> Did anyone else have problems getting all the way home?  I was delayed in Hong Kong for 4 hours while they fixed the plane, which then made me miss my connecting flight to Hobart and so got stuck in Melbourne for 10 hours.
<jasoncwarner> ok...sounds like we done [END MEETING] be back in 15
<jasoncwarner> RAOF: to answer your question...my flights were uneventful, but long
<jasoncwarner> though, I know robert has a story to tell! Poor guy.
<RAOF> As well as being sick?  Sucky!
<bryceh_> bummer robert, plane travel while sick sucks
<bryceh_> RAOF, the portland contingent had an uneventful flight, despite having to leave at crack of dawn
<bryceh_> jasoncwarner, RAOF, regarding blueprints yep got them done yesterday.
<bryceh_> leaving the wayland one for you to write up RAOF.  ;-)
<RAOF> :)
<bryceh_> (but I guess that one's going to be low priority)
<RAOF> Yup.
<jasoncwarner> bryceh_: cool...anything surprising? Anything you think we won't get through?
<bryceh_> jasoncwarner, there's a few tasks in the X tools blueprint that are kind of stretch goals, we'll see
<bcurtiswx> https://code.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/oneiric/gnome-icon-theme/gnome-icon-theme-3.0.0/+merge/61337
<bcurtiswx> for oneiric, thanks :)
<bcurtiswx> i will never try to get through JFK with a 1.5 hour layover ever again..
 * TheMuso checks in to see if anything important was mentioned in the meeting, and finds that there was not.
<RAOF> No.  Just me bitching about air travel :)
<bcurtiswx> oh, cool. I interrupted the meeting? :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: Yeah I read about your delays, that really sucks.
<TheMuso> My trip home was uneventful fortunately.
<RAOF> That's good.
<RAOF> Yeah.  At least Qantas booked everyone who missed the Hobart flight a day room at a hotel.
<RAOF> That was nice and quiet.  And had actual food for lunch.
<cyphermox> jasoncwarner: hey
<jasoncwarner> hey cyphermox
<jasoncwarner> how are things in canananananda
<cyphermox> heh, things are okay.
<cyphermox> the broken pipe is definitely fixed now, tomorrow morning I'll have an insurance lady visit to assess the damage
<cyphermox> in the meantime I got evo to work :)
<jasoncwarner> nice!
<bcurtiswx> 3.0?
<cyphermox> yeah
<bcurtiswx> sweet!
<cyphermox> I like how the error messages and notifications are more visible and clearer
<RAOF> Oooh, time for me to upgrade to oneiric I see :)
<cyphermox> RAOF: is it?
<cyphermox> I meant to ask, I'm seeing weird redrawing issues on intel right now
<RAOF> In oneiric, or natty?
<cyphermox> oneiric
 * RAOF doesn't currently have an actual oneiric desktop install, soâ¦
<cyphermox> stuff gets painted on the screen fine, but not removed .. e.g you display the dash and it won't go away
<cyphermox> ah. I guess there's nothing new in X land that landed either?
<jbicha> in Unity?
<cyphermox> maybe there was...
<cyphermox> jbicha: yes
<RAOF> Nothing much that I'm aware of; maybe kernel?
<bcurtiswx> hi jbicha
 * TheMuso will upgrade to oneiric at alpha 1.
<jbicha> you could see if gnome shell is any better
<bcurtiswx> TheMuso, right now oneiric is usable... keyword: "right now"
<TheMuso> 8...or not, alpha 1 is June 2nd, a few weeks away.
<bryceh_> I see the failed redrawing on the background
<TheMuso> In any case, it won't be till next week.
<jbicha> I got vinagre 3 mostly packaged...but gtk-vnc isn't working right
<bryceh_> I upgraded two of my desktops to oneiric
 * TheMuso is just on to do blueprint stuff, and then off again for the rest of his holiday.
<jbicha> bcurtiswx: howdy
<bryceh_> 779174  openjdk-6 - ca-certificates-java broken by multiarch [FIXED]
<bryceh_> 784217  linux(?)  - console text corrupted on first boot on a KVM
<bryceh_> 784216  udev(?)   - /run/udev not writable error message
<bryceh_> 784214  apport    - Failed to run dump_acpi_tables.py invoked via ssh
<bryceh_> 784209  unity-2d  - background fails to redraw (reproduced on 2 machines)
<bryceh_> those are the bugs I ran into doing it
<bryceh_> cyphermox, I think my bug 784209 corresponds to what you're seeing, however that was with unity-2d
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 784209 in unity-2d "Background fails to redraw" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784209
<bryceh_> I tested both the .38 and .39 kernels, same behavior.  X hasn't changed, so guessing it's compiz or unity
<cyphermox> yeah
<bryceh_> well, I uploaded one of cnd's fixes to xserver today but that was for multitouch stuff, and fairly minor
<cyphermox> here it shouldn't be unity-2d, anyway
<cyphermox> bryceh_: well, i checked and saw X, but it's two hours ago according to the queue page, and I updated ~5 hours ago
<bcurtiswx> is there anything changing in the lpi patches this cycle, or are we just focusing on getting them working  ?
<bryceh_> lpi?
<bcurtiswx> launchpad integration i believe is what it stands for
<bryceh_> ok, that's what I thought
<bryceh_> don't know; wasn't aware of breakages, but I don't really follow that work much
<jbicha> I wonder if Get Help Online should redirect to askubuntu instead of answers.LP.net but that's above my paygrade
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx: you might need to update lpi patches to use liblaunchpad-integration-3.0-dev?
<bryceh_> jbicha, I think it'd be a good idea
<cyphermox> indeed
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, ah yes you would probably be correct
<cyphermox> depends if it should build with gtk3
<cyphermox> oops, seems like e-d-s was synced instead of e-d-s3.
<bcurtiswx> standards is 3.9.2 now ?
<micahg> bcurtiswx: yup
<bcurtiswx> micahg, thx
<bcurtiswx> anyone remember from one of the desktop roundtables, for the GNOME3 transition we were going to take the GNOME3 PPA and build those versions (3.0.x) or can I start a 3.1.x on top of the GNOME3 PPA Work ?
<bcurtiswx> well it was the GTK3/GNOME3 session to be exact
<RAOF> Bah!  Launchpad blueprints doesn't play nicely with accidental ctrl-w!
<bcurtiswx> dep breakage with libnotify4-dev, its looking for -0ubuntu2 but -0ubuntu4 is installed
<bcurtiswx> looking for -0ubuntu2 of libnotify but -ubuntu4 is the only available
<jbicha> I just went ahead and removed libnotify4-dev, at the moment I don't need it and maybe it's not needed anymore
<bryceh_> RAOF, :-/
<jbicha> we'll find out the next time I try to package something that needs it
<RAOF> bryceh_: Tomboy it is!
<bcurtiswx> jbicha, seahorse needs it
<bcurtiswx> there's dep issues, i'll see if i can bring it up to appropriate people tomorrow
<bcurtiswx> im too tired to think that long anymore
<bcurtiswx> lol
<jbicha> ah, that's important
<bcurtiswx> i think the gist of it is that  libpurple0 needs a dep bump on libperl
<bcurtiswx> and to be rebuilt
<bcurtiswx> ah seems it has
<bcurtiswx> but the build fails
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx: jbicha: re libnotify, isn't it libnotify-dev now, not libnotify4-dev, it was renamed
<cyphermox> (or maybe it was accidental), the fact is, libnotify4-dev is at -0ubuntu2, libnotify-dev is at -0ubuntu4 ;)
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, thanks :)
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx: afaict libnotify-dev is correct, and matches debian. I noticed there was a similar issue like that for libgweather but I think seb128 has already fixed it
<bcurtiswx> yes it looks fixed, packages just have to be updated for that change
<cyphermox> yup
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, you use quilt ?
<cyphermox> I can see it's correctly named libgweather-3-dev and stuch
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx: yes
<bcurtiswx> or bzr bd-do ?
<cyphermox> both
<bcurtiswx> when i'm done with the bd-do how do i make sure my changes are saved
<cyphermox> bzr bd-do; quilt push -a, etc
<cyphermox> exit 0 to make sure it's saved
<cyphermox> exit 1 to cancel your changes
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, thx :)
<cyphermox> only what's in debian/ gets copied
<cyphermox> the you'll still need to bzr add new patches and things like that
<bcurtiswx> no new patches, just fixes to them
<bcurtiswx> seahorse is building now, hopefully no fails
<bcurtiswx> if anyone is feeling up to sponsoring into oneiric
<bcurtiswx> https://code.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/oneiric/seahorse/3.1.1-0ubuntu1/+merge/61344
<bcurtiswx> gnome-icon-theme from the ~gnome3-team GNOME3 PPA can be merged too since it's the most recent
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx: I think you missed a conflict in debian/changelog
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, which?
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx: https://code.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/oneiric/seahorse/3.1.1-0ubuntu1/+merge/61344 complains about lines in debian/changelog, versions 2.90* and 3.0* vs. 2.32.0-0ubuntu2 and 2.32.0-0ubuntu3
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, i took the changelog from the gnome3 PPA, maybe thats where i went wrong
<cyphermox> ah I see
<bcurtiswx> so the proper thing to do is?
<cyphermox> notice the <<<<< TREE marker, you'll want to move the entries for 2.32.0-0ubuntu3 to below the changelog entries you added
<cyphermox> seems like it may have been because the stuff from the GNOME3 ppa was started before -0ubuntu3 was uploaded
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx: you just want to properly sort the versions and remove the <<<<, =====, and >>>>> lines
<bcurtiswx> i didn't get a <<< TREE stuff
<bcurtiswx> lemme think for a sec tho
<bcurtiswx> oh i see, on the merge proposal
<bcurtiswx> the diff has conflicts
<bcurtiswx> how do I fix that?
<bcurtiswx> i know how to fix the TREE stuff, but is there a special way i can do it in the merge review?
<cyphermox> ohh, right, that wouldn't be on your tree
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> merge lp:~ubuntu-desktop/seahorse/ubuntu back into your branch and you should be good (e.g. bzr merge lp:~ubuntu-desktop/seahorse/ubuntu)
<cyphermox> actually no, I'm wrong
<cyphermox> actually yes, that's exactly what you need to do ;)
<bcurtiswx> lol, what is it?? :P
<cyphermox> sorry, I had to try it to be sure
<cyphermox> bzr merge lp:~ubuntu-desktop/seahorse/ubuntu
<cyphermox> that adds 2.32.0-0ubuntu3 to your branch, with all the changes referenced in that changelog entry
<bcurtiswx> OK, fixing
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, fixed
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx: if I may nitpick, the Vcs-Bzr field in debian/control and debian/control.in also seems wrong, I think it should point to the branches under ~ubuntu-desktop, not ~gnome3-team, once merged, i would also have written the changelog entries about patches differently, but since I can't merge your branch, I'll let someone else bug you about stuff like this ;)
<cyphermox> I guess the patch 91_ didn't apply?
<bcurtiswx> ah, yes since this was gnome3 i ddin't even think to change that
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, the 91_ patch was a git pull, which is in it now.  It also failed completely on attempt to push which hinted that it was already in upstream
<cyphermox> yeah, cool
<cyphermox> please mention that you drop it in changelog then :)
<cyphermox> I fail!
<cyphermox> sorry, I didn't see the entry
<cyphermox> that's probably an indication that it's late enough for me to go to bed ;)
<bcurtiswx> no big deal it's really late for me too
<bcurtiswx> the VCZ-BZR was updated and mentioned in the changlog
<bcurtiswx> and pushed, ready for review/merge again
<cyphermox> cool
<bcurtiswx> ugh and i can't type.. LOL
<bcurtiswx> vzr-bzr..
 * cyphermox goes to sleep
<bcurtiswx> me as well
<bcurtiswx> nite everyone
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> ugh, oneiric is starting to look really weird
<cdbs> pitti: yep, exactly
<pitti> hey cdbs
<cdbs> pitti: That's because Unity sn't able to read settings from the new gnome-settings-daemon
<cdbs> pitti: That's what I warned of yesterday
<pitti> cdbs: nice job with porting checkbox!
<cdbs> thanks pitti
<pitti>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/checkbox_gtk/hyper_text_view.py", line 78, in _motion
<pitti>     x, y, _ = window.get_pointer()
<pitti> ValueError: too many values to unpack
<pitti> hm, I get this a lot
<cdbs> That came in the old checkbox as well, I suppose?
<cdbs> Even I get it a lot, but it doesn't seem to hinder any functionality (as of my testing)
<pitti> perhaps
<pitti> but gdk_window_get_pointer() has three returns
<pitti> x, y, mask
<pitti> so you should probably do get_pointer()[:2]
<pitti> or (x, y, mask) = ...
<cdbs> pitti: okay, thanks
<cdbs> will push a branch for that today
<pitti> cheers
<pitti> but nice to see so much gnome 3 stuff being in already
<cdbs> pitti: To get Oneiric nice again, we need to 1) Fix nux FTBFS 2) Fix unity ftbfs 3) Get Unity work with the new gnome-settings-daemon
<cdbs> I'd help with 2 and 3, but 1 is too complicated, from what I've seen
<pitti> I wonder why empathy already looks bad, it's still 2.32
<pitti> 2.34, but all the same
<pitti> cdbs: sounds like a plan
<cdbs> pitti: GTK2 apps look bad, because GTK2 can't get settings out of gnome-settings-daemon
<pitti> I'm still untangling the gtk3/glade/glade-3/vte FTBFS and dependency stack, once that's done I can help out with more
<pitti> ah, right
<cdbs> waiting for didrocks to come so that I could ask him to sponsor patch on bug #745392 which fixes the nux FTBFS
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 745392 in nux "Fails to compile with GCC 4.6 (unless using -fpermissive)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745392
<pitti> cdbs: ok, these need to be applied upstream, so I can't sponsor this properly
<pitti> kenvandine: can you please upload the fix for bug 768974 to oneiric as well?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 768974 in papyon "papyon doesn't answer server's pings" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/768974
<Dr_Heckle> 10.04 LTS: Just resumed from hibernation (went quit well other than) & my cursor was not being drawn (still "existed" & moved, just not drawn) this was "fixed" when I started up X-Chat... For future reference what is the name of the program that is responsible for drawing the cursor? (from "man -k cursor" > "XFreeCursor (3)      - manipulate cursors" is this it?)
<Dr_Heckle> :/ quite*
<RAOF> Dr_Heckle: This isn't the right place for bug reports :).  And it's the X server that draws the cursor; there isn't really a separate program.  From your description I'd guess that the cursor sprite wasn't preserved properly over hibernate/resume, so it was invisible until something set a different sprite.
<Dr_Heckle> as this is a 1st time I wasn't trying to make a bug report, i "figured" it was something along those lines, Thx for pointing me to X
<RAOF> Of course, the problem will probably be in the kernel driver :)
<RAOF> Because *all* X problems now are basically kernel bugs :)
<Dr_Heckle> in other words X is perfect?
<RAOF> Yes!
<RAOF> (Says the X maintainer âº)
<Dr_Heckle> lulz
<broder> Dr_Heckle: they moved all the buggy bits out :-P
<RAOF> Hush!
<Dr_Heckle> XD
<Dr_Heckle> genius!
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> pitti: Re: xorg-tools-and-processes - Defaulting to recovery mode when recordfail is set seems like the right thing to do regardless of the other things.
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<RAOF> IE: if the last boot has failed, doing the same thing again is unlikely to improve matters.
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: Howdie!
<chrisccoulson> hi RAOF, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> recovered from your journey?
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: Much better after a couple of nights of sleep :)
<chrisccoulson> heh, i can imagine
<RAOF> And, somewhat miraculously, I managed a bit of Banshee hacking on the flights home.
<chrisccoulson> nice!
<pitti> hey RAOF
<chrisccoulson> i can't do useful things on a flight, as my battery dies too quickly!
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: x200s.  It's the way of the future!
<pitti> RAOF: as long as this won't also automatically move your monitors.xml away, etc.
<chrisccoulson> RAOF, i want one ;)
<chrisccoulson> i'm thinking of buying a new machine this week
<pitti> if we do this automatically without proof that it was e. g. monitors.xml which caused the breakage, then we certainly shouldn't touch it without asking
<RAOF> Absolutely.
<pitti> X200 ++!
<pitti> 10 h battery life FTW
<pitti> still waiting for an USB-pluggable hamster wheel
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: Obviously you'd get an x220 now; 24hr battery life with the sheet battery!  Also, an IPS screen.
<pitti> or a set of bike pedals and a generator
<chrisccoulson> RAOF, i'm not sure if my budget will stretch that far ;)
<RAOF> I'll sell you my old x200s once I buy a macbook :P
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<RAOF> It's time for me to get a broken system to work on.  Maybe then I'll see all the bugs everyone always complains about :)
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, RAOF
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: apparently, got a long (and so needed?) night :) excellent otherwise, thanks! You?
<RAOF> pitti: I agree with the monitors.xml thingy; my understanding of that was that it'd be one of the âwould you like to try $FOO to fix thingsâ options of xdiagnose, rather than done by default.
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, i don't feel too well today. my throat is really sore :(
 * RAOF heads off to buy stuff for dinner.
<pitti> RAOF: ah, I see
<chrisccoulson> you can dock the x220 can't you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh, take care :/
<GunnarHj> pitti: Good morning Martin, today back to a more ordinary matter: Asking for your sponsoring of https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/language-selector/lp-778869/+merge/60329
<GunnarHj> pitti: Since it's a fix of a Natty regression, I think it should be SRUed into Natty as well. (Also the Lucid and Maverick backports need to be updated as soon as a backporter has approved those MPs.)
<pitti> hey GunnarHj, good morning
<pitti> GunnarHj: yes, I'll review/sponsor this ASAP
<pitti> in fact I just caught up with spec reviews and some oneiric gnome updates, so attacking my mail backlog next
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, great.
<pitti> GunnarHj: https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/lucid/language-selector/lucid-backports-lp-778869/+merge/60556 is by and large the same for -backports, right?
<GunnarHj> pitti: "By and large"? It's basically the same thing, but the code is different in Lucid.
<pitti> *nod*
<cdbs> didrocks: Hi, it seems GCC 4.6 ftbfss have been fixed in both nux and Unity?
<pitti> GunnarHj: FYI, I'm creating lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/language-selector/natty for the natty backports
<pitti> GunnarHj: sorry, not for backports, for natty-proposed
<pitti> so we can cherrypick easily from trunk
<pitti> (which I'll do now for bug 778869 )
<didrocks> cdbs: seems so, it's not in the ftbfs list, but I didn't upload anything for nux/unity. So should have been done in the gcc side
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 778869 in language-selector "[natty] fontconfig-voodoo -a does not work in Japanese locales" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/778869
<GunnarHj> pitti: I see, thanks for letting me know.
<pitti> GunnarHj: I'll upload natty-proposed package now
<RAOF> pitti: And now that I'm back - the crash database on that blueprint was talking about a kerneldump style database.  I guess I should really comment on the blueprint, though, for posterity :)
<pitti> RAOF: right, just add a blob below my questions and bump it back to "review"
<pitti> thanks!
<pitti> (or, better, clarify the wording in the WIs)
<rodrigo_> morning
<RAOF> Right.
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<njpatel> hey seb128
<seb128> hey
<seb128> hi njpatel, how are you?
<njpatel> seb128, good, thanks. Hoping to get some coding done for the first time in about three weeks today
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> njpatel, close IRC before someone grabs you ;-)
<njpatel> heh :)
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, ca va ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va bien, et toi?
<seb128> ca va nickel ;-)
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<didrocks> (making some Qt testbuild to see how components fits together and making my computer crying ;))
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: I'm great, thanks!
<pitti> got the gtk+3.0/glade/glade-3/vte chain resolved for good
<pitti> and all pending specs reviewed
<pitti> seb128: d-conf also uploaded to sid/oneiric
<pitti> FTR, svn-buildpackage is a pain in the arse
<pitti> (or svn in general)
<didrocks> pitti: hum, let me check why you didn't review the session management one then, I should have done something wrong
<pitti> didrocks: what's the spec URL?
<didrocks> oh, seb is the reviewer :)
<didrocks> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-session-management
<seb128> pitti, great work!
<seb128> pitti, didn't we say we need to check what happens to custom widgets for glade3?
<pitti> seb128: ah, I misunderstood then; I wasn't even aware that glade supports custom widgets
 * pitti reopens then
<pitti> seb128: I clarified the WI to say "for custom widgets"
<seb128> it's not frequently use but still I want to check
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> doh
<seb128> pitti, do you ever sleep? syncs at 6am is early!
<pitti> seb128: I get up at 6, yes :)
<seb128> pitti, btw I didn't accept the gvfs binaries from the sync yesterday to avoid upgrade conflicts
<pitti> I went to bed at 10 pm
<pitti> seb128: ah, good; 1.8.1 should be fine, though
<seb128> right
<pitti> seb128: I'll wait for armel to finish and then NEW then
<seb128> ok
<seb128> btw as a channel notice, we have quite some sponsoring requests pending on version
<seb128> if some people can do 1 or 2 today we can clean the backlog
<didrocks> will do some once my local build finishes
<pitti> noted
<pitti> didrocks: cdbs pointed to FTBFS fixes for nux and unity, I guess these are "your" two? :-)
<pitti> seb128: ok if I grab seahorse?
<seb128> pitti, sponsoring? sure ;-)
<pitti> seb128: it updates to 3.1 already, but I'll test it properly
<pitti> bcurtiswx: hm, seems you didn't merge with Debian along the way?
<didrocks> 09:39:34          cdbs | didrocks: Hi, it seems GCC 4.6 ftbfss have been fixed in both nux and Unity?
<didrocks> pitti: I understood that it doesn't FTBFS anymore
<seb128> bcurtiswx, thanks for the update but could you start by going to 3 and not 3.1 for the updates you do?
<didrocks> pitti: the yorba guys made a patch a month ago, but as the trunk changed a lot, I think that the dx team have to do a review
<didrocks> pitti: I'll try to rebuild unity in a pbuilder just to confirm it's fixed
<seb128> pitti, you should probably send it back to Needs Work and ask for proper merge and use of the stable serie
<pitti> seb128: just done
<seb128> thanks
<jasoncwarner> morning guys...
<seb128> hey jasoncwarner, how are you?
<pitti> hey jasoncwarner
<didrocks> hey jasoncwarner
<pitti> seb128: moving to xscreensaver then
<seb128> jasoncwarner, did you manage to avoid the ubuflu? ;-)
<jasoncwarner> I think I've finally succumbed to ubuflu full on. Took a couple of days...
<seb128> pitti, ok
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> it's a .auflu it seems
<jasoncwarner> how are you guys? everyone manage to stay healthy?
<jasoncwarner> seb128: must be the sinagpore airport! beware!
<pitti> killer viruses from Europe invading Australia!
<didrocks> european people are stronger ;)
<jasoncwarner> didrocks heh...we'll, you won't find arguments from me on that one ;)
<RAOF> didrocks: It's because you all sleep in tiny villages overrun by cows!
<didrocks> RAOF: of course :-)
<seb128> what do they have against the cows? ;-)
<pitti> jasoncwarner: for our 1-on-1 in 45 minutes, want to s/pitti/bed/ and s/mubmle/sleep/?
<rodrigo_> hey jasoncwarner
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<jasoncwarner> morning rodrigo_
<cdbs> didrocks: The rebuild, what was the outcome?
<didrocks> cdbs: still building in my pbuilder right now
 * Sweetshark is timezoned again by seeing who is online and awake and guessing their locsl times ...
<cdbs> didrocks: I'd like to get Unity working on GTK3, so that it takes care and uses GTK3 theme defaults instead of GTK2 ones. I have a branch which makes Unity build well with GTK3, but still its taking the theming settings from GTK2. Do you have an idea of what all needs to be changed in Unity to make it run well with the new GNOME?
<didrocks> cdbs: maybe, wait for the next SRU first (next Tuesday) before thinking of merging it
<didrocks> cdbs: well, we will have both theming anyway and dx is building a gate between them
<cdbs> didrocks: okay, nice. welcome news. Will wait for another week and then get back to you on this
<didrocks> cdbs: ensure that nobody else is working on it as well on #ayatana btw :)
<cdbs> didrocks: hmm :)
<didrocks> cdbs: it's not the case AFAIK, but better to avoid duplication of an awesome work ;)
<cdbs> didrocks: I really am not able to understand but the GTK3 port is just a 200 line diff!
<didrocks> cdbs: yeah, it's very small as most of the work was done to be GTK3 compatible
<didrocks> also compiz (the decorator I think) would be a nice target
<cdbs> the only change was needed to correct those _window->window into gtk_widget_get_window
<cdbs> didrocks: yup, the decorator needs a port
<didrocks> right, because of the gseal
<didrocks> cdbs: unity built successfully FYI, trying nux now
<cdbs> :)
<didrocks> not sure why it FTBFS previously, we did any action for that and it seemed to be an unity/nux issue
<seb128> vuntz, hey
<seb128> vuntz, your versions-stable-extras seems to not track stable
<seb128> i.e gdl or seed have 3.1 versions
<didrocks> cdbs: nux is failing to build
<cdbs> :(
<cdbs> didrocks: There's a patch fixing that, on some bug
<didrocks> the one from adam?
<cdbs> didrocks: yes
<didrocks> cdbs: did you try on latest nux trunk?
<cdbs> didrocks: Looks like my configure was configured to pass -fpermissive by default
<cdbs> didrocks: and hence it passed
<didrocks> cdbs: hum, ok, so I'll try to convince upstream to have our flags by default :)
<cdbs> didrocks: no, that's not the proper way to fix it :)
<cdbs> didrocks: Why not sponsor the patch?
<cdbs> it makes more sense to do that rather than work-around the failure
<didrocks> cdbs: I meant, upstream should use the ubuntu flags which are more restrictive than their by default
<cdbs> didrocks: which upstream? nux?
<didrocks> that will enforce them discovering this issue and sponsor the patch
<didrocks> cdbs: right
<cdbs> got it then, I thought you were amongst those who worked on nux
<didrocks> yeah, but for this cycle, we try to get a more restrictive upstream/downstream separation
<didrocks> cdbs: are you interested in proposing a branch that ensure the default flags used in unity/nux are the same than the one in oneiric?
<cdbs> didrocks: Yes I can, but they need to have a reason to accept it :/
<cdbs> didrocks: It'd be easy, just add -Werror=permissive to the thing
<didrocks> cdbs: well, I'll make sure they will accept it ;) but anyway, I mean, doing a review of all flags where it's different, not only permissive
<vuntz> seb128: oh?
<vuntz> seb128: ah, hrm
<seb128> vuntz, hey ;-) can you fix it? ;-)
<vuntz> seb128: yeah, there's no real branch handling there
<vuntz> seb128: the issue is that this branch data is usually maintained by the release team
<seb128> vuntz, which is an issue because...?
<vuntz> seb128: because everything in extras is everything that the release team doesn't deal with
<vuntz> so that means we need to maintain that data ourselves
<seb128> vuntz, I guess I don't know enough about how your lists are built to understand the issue but let me know if I can help in some way to maintain the datas or if there is a way for me to fix wrong series tracking
<seb128> if not I will just put overrides on our version side
<pitti> I'm off for a bit for lunch and some errands, I need to buy an iron saw
<vuntz> for stable-extras, we simply look at the available releases on ftp.gnome.org for all tarballs that are not in stable and take the latest ones
<vuntz> that means that stable-extras won't have gnome-shell, for instance (since it's in stable)
<vuntz> but for gdl (not mentioned in stable because not mentioned in the release team sets), we simply take the latest version
<seb128> vuntz, hum, ok, I see
<vuntz> seb128: obviously, we can maintain the information about branches
<vuntz> I'm just unsure if doing that ourselves, in a reactive way is good enough
<seb128> well, who is using those version lists out of distros?
<seb128> they don't really need to be "reactive" I guess
<vuntz> I guess it's mostly distros
<seb128> we can just fix issues when we spot some
<kinouchou> hello
<seb128> lut kinouchou
<kinouchou> salut seb128
<cdbs> didrocks: Here it is https://code.launchpad.net/~bilalakhtar/nux/make-compilation-strict/+merge/61370 According to RMS' servants (aka GNU) only 2 extra flags were made default
<didrocks> hey kinouchou
 * kinouchou hugs dida
<kinouchou> oup
<vuntz> seb128: I'll fix things later on
<didrocks> cdbs: you rock! can you ensure the same (in cmake, so less straightfoward) for unity?
<seb128> vuntz, ok, thanks
<vuntz> seb128: in the mean time, feel free to send me what looks wrong
<vuntz> seb128: I've seen gdl and seed, but there are surely more
<cdbs> didrocks: easier, cmake is better to handle than autotools :)
<didrocks> cdbs: I think the opposite, but it's a matter of opinion and habits :-)
<seb128> vuntz, check for 3.1. in the list, there is a bunch of other ones
<seb128> vuntz, I will do a list and email it to you
<seb128> didrocks, is dida your new name? ;-)
<kinouchou> je me suis trompÃ©e de touche
<didrocks> seb128: seems so, I'm surprized as well :-)
<kinouchou> seb tu viens Ã  Paris pour la party?
<seb128> kinouchou, je pense pas non
<kinouchou> petit joueur
<seb128> heh!
<seb128> j'y rÃ©flÃ©chi mais me connaissant j'aurais la flemme de voyager le w.e ;-)
<kinouchou> ben tu pars le vendredi et tu rentres le lundi
<seb128> je vais y rÃ©lfÃ©chir ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, t'y vas toi ?
<cdbs> didrocks: Done for Unity as well https://code.launchpad.net/~bilalakhtar/unity/make-compilation-strict/+merge/61373 :)
<didrocks> ok, 5 minutes to get over a compiz mouse grab without restarting the session \o/
<didrocks> cdbs: awesome! thanks ;)
<cdbs> you're welcome
<didrocks> seb128: oui, bien sÃ»r, je donne des cours/confÃ©rences, comme Ã  chaque fois :)
<cdbs> !fr | didrocks , kinouchou , seb128 :)
<ubot2> didrocks , kinouchou , seb128 :): Ce canal est en anglais uniquement. Si vous avez besoin d'aide ou voulez discuter en franÃ§ais, veuillez taper /join #ubuntu-fr ou /join #ubuntu-qc. Merci.
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> waow, didn't know the bot has some french tweaking :)
<cdbs> didrocks: Its there for each language, even:
<cdbs> !zh
<ubot2> å¦æ¬²ç²å¾ä¸­æçåå©ï¼è«è¼¸å¥ /join #ubuntu-cnã/join #ubuntu-tw æ /join #ubuntu-hkã
<didrocks> excellent :)
 * cdbs gotta go
<didrocks> cdbs: see you!
 * rodrigo_ -> lunch
<hv> rodrigo_: still crashing :(
<kenvandine> pitti, will do
<pitti> kenvandine: good morning
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks
<pitti> cyphermox: for your gnome-nettool merge, you forgot to reference the bug number in the changelog; I'll do it while merging
<GunnarHj> pitti: It looks like version 0.34.2 didn't make it to natty-proposed.
<GunnarHj> pitti: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/language-selector/natty
<pitti> GunnarHj: it's still in the queue
<pitti> (unapproved queue)
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok.
<seb128> re
<seb128> geser, did you investigate the pidgin build issue?
<hv> rodrigo_: sorry. it seems I was mistaken. ignore that.
<doctormo> mterry: Morning, are you up yet?
<mterry> doctormo, yup!  :)
<mterry> doctormo, morning yourself!  What's up?
<doctormo> mterry: new blog entry http://doctormo.org/2011/05/18/netbook-launcher-now-available-for-maverick/
<kenvandine> pitti, that fix is already in oneiric
<pitti> kenvandine: how?
<kenvandine> i just compared... them
<pitti> kenvandine: natty-proposed and oneiric both had one upload after natty-final, but for different bugs
 * mterry reads
<pitti> kenvandine: in case the changelog got messed up, please feel free to just close the oneiric task then
<kenvandine> it's in the changelog, and i compared the source
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> oh... yeah... i see
<kenvandine> the changelog says natty-proposed
<kenvandine> but the change is actually there
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/papyon/+changelog
<pitti>  735815 has been fixed in both, but 768974 just in -proposed
<mterry> doctormo, ah, so the package shouldn't be pulling in netbook-launcher?  I wonder why it did.  You'll be happy to hear that I am in the middle of reviewing some patches for netbook-launcher-efl as we speak.  Not very active development anymore, but a non-zero amount  :)
<kenvandine> right
<pitti> kenvandine: oh, I see
<pitti> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/71630093/papyon_0.5.5-1ubuntu1_0.5.5-1ubuntu2.diff.gz
<kenvandine> i'll mark the bug
<pitti>  kenvandine: it was uploaded without -v, so it escaped -changes@ and /+changes
<kenvandine> yeah
<doctormo> mterry: Yes I expected that to be the case, the recommends was just doing weird things. I should probably try and steal the upstream for the clutter project and apply the patch I made.
<chrisccoulson> pitti, oh, i didn't realise we ship a load of firefox languages that upstream don't even ship :/
<chrisccoulson> actually
<chrisccoulson> how can that be possible?
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, i think mozilla removed some languages in firefox 5
<chrisccoulson> weird
<pitti> chrisccoulson: for 4.0 I just got them from the upstream download page
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i realised after i pressed enter :)
<chrisccoulson> so, it seems some languages have been removed from the shipped-locales file in firefox 5 (and don't appear on the download page), but they are re-added again in firefox 6
<chrisccoulson> i wonder if that's a bug :/
<pitti> maybe translators just weren't fast enough for 5?
<pitti> but they can certainly still catch up?
<chrisccoulson> i only noticed because i saw my control file shrink when i refreshed the list of languages for the ff5 package
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that's possible
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh - http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/2b3275216413
<chrisccoulson> no comment though
<chrisccoulson> and i use that file to automate the build
<doctormo> firefox 6... version bump
<highvoltage> 6? I'm still on 5!
<chrisccoulson> i run 6 (soon to be 7)
<chrisccoulson> and i'm going to upload 5 to oneiric this week
 * pitti thought that 4 was current, at least that's what is in oneiric
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, 4 is the current stable. 5 is the current beta (although it's not been officially pushed out to beta testers yet)
<chrisccoulson> and 6 is nightly
<micahg> chrisccoulson: you should implement something like I have in thunderbird-locales which makes sure we don't drop packages for empty languages
<pitti> cyphermox: merged your's, but I'll merge with Debian before uploading
<pitti> cyphermox: in hindsight doing that would have been easier, as the patch is already in Debian
<chrisccoulson> micahg, yeah, i was going to do that anyway, but i don't need to just yet
<micahg> chrisccoulson: k, yeah, just needs to be done before the SRU
<geser> seb128: sorry not yet, got distracted yesterday evening with other things, but I hope to get it done today
<seb128> geser, ok, thanks
<bcurtiswx_> pitti: hey, regarding the seahorse update.  We are holding off on 3.1.x until we get all 3.0.x into Oneiric?
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, correct
<pitti> well, even if that particular one works, we still need to merge with Debian
<seb128> we want to stabilize GNOME3 a bit before adding an new unstability stack
<pitti> and see which patches are obsolete, which should go upstream, and clean up pointless packaging diff
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, pitti: OK, thats great. no problems here.  So the only merge request that we are looking for right now are those from the gnome3-team PPA.  Or is there a more automated process in bringing them over from the PPA ?
<bcurtiswx_> so in my mind, i'm taking the gnome3-ppa packages, (updating to 3.0.x if theres anything newer) through a bzr bd and updating the version in the changelog, then merge requesting those with their respective oneiric LP entries ?
<bcurtiswx_> the ones that don't require any changes from the gnome3-ppa , would you still want merge requests?
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, that's not the right way
<seb128> basically what I do is
<seb128> - take the ubuntu-desktop vcs
<seb128> then merge the gnome3-team
<seb128> then rebase on debian
<bcurtiswx_> seb128: OK i'll go do that on seahorse.  I will probably have some questions on the process along the way.  Thanks
<cyphermox> hey all
<bcurtiswx_> mornin' cyphermox
<cyphermox> morning ;)
<rodrigo_> hv, you mean my g-s-d fix, right?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128: rebaseing with debian not gnome, so where's the location of the debian packages ?
<bcurtiswx_> packages.debian.org
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/seahorse.html
<bcurtiswx_> seb128: thx and we rebase with experimental  or testing?
<pitti> I usually do something like diff -Nur debianpkg/debian ubuntupkg/debian > d-u.debdiff
<pitti> then walk through d-u.debdiff and delete irrelevant stuff
<pitti> and then reapply it on top of the current debian pkg
<seb128> similar to pitti
<seb128> I usually copy the debian dir in the vcs
<seb128> and bzr diff
<seb128> and revert things where we need our diff
<pitti> ah, I first apply the remaining changes and then copy debian/ back into the ubuntu vcs
<seb128> then commit when it's cleaned
<pitti> but should be similar in effect
<seb128> but will similar workflows
<seb128> will->well
<bcurtiswx_> seems like i get to learn something new today
<pitti> didrocks: do we still rely on --prefix in python's python-distutils.mk.in?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, as there is no better plan for it right now :/
<pitti> didrocks: currently some packages FTBFS because they use python-distutils.mk.in with dh_python2, which crashes on "no such option: --prefix"
<didrocks> humâ¦ we should either make dh_python2 understand or ignore the option
<didrocks> or detect that we are using pycentral pysupportâ¦
<pitti> for now I'm going to update cdbs to only supply it for pysupport, is that ok?
<didrocks> pitti: sounds good to me, thanks! :)
<pitti> didrocks: dh_pycentral also doesn't document a --prefix option, though
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I only supported pysupport IIRC
<geser> any specific reason why not using dh_python2? <tumbleweed> the equivalent of --prefix in dh_python2 is just to specify the full path to the private directory. Don't know why they didn't use dh_python2 for this in the first place... (2011-05-10 in #ubuntu-devel)
<pedro_> rodrigo_, hola, you're still working on bug 773063 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 773063 in gnome-control-center "[Natty] gnome-about-me box doesn't remember contents" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/773063
<rodrigo_> pedro_, it's on my list, yes, although it gets obsolete for oneiric
<rodrigo_> pedro_, I think the problem is for people that don't use evolution
<pedro_> rodrigo_, yup, that's the main issue there. Ok i'll close the oneiric task and leave only the natty open. Gracias!
<seb128> right, read the bug, the issue is when there is no addressbook created or something
<rodrigo_> pedro_, of nothing :)
<vuntz> oh, stupid question
<vuntz> which version of gnome-panel will be in oneiric?
<seb128> vuntz, 3.n
<seb128> n being 0 or 2
<seb128> likely 2 if there is no reason to not use it
<vuntz> seb128: so are you going to drop all old applets?
<vuntz> or is there anyone working on a module to load them?
<seb128> vuntz, "old" like using bonobo?
<vuntz> yes
<seb128> guess we will
<seb128> we will drop those I mean
<seb128> if nobody port them to use the new dbus protocol
<vuntz> and do you think it's worth the effort to write a module to be able to use them?
<seb128> we will have unity-3d, unity-2d and gnome-shell as modern desktop, we don't really plan to spend time to maintain a legacy desktop
<seb128> not really
<seb128> if people care enough about some applets they should port it to dbus
<vuntz> ok
<vuntz> thanks
<jbicha> which old applets are you talking about?
<jbicha> there's 20-something included in gnome-panel & gnome-applets that work
<vuntz> jbicha: bonobo-based applets
<vuntz> jbicha: gnome-netstatus, for instance
<seb128> jbicha, you can apt-cache rdepends libpanel-applet2-0 basically
<seb128> gnome-randr-applet, glunarclock, gnome-pilot, etc
<seb128> vuntz, we should probably spend efforts moving forward, if things are unmaintained they should be cleaned
<seb128> if they are useful and maintained they will get ported
<seb128> cyphermox, ok, can you drop the sync request for e-d-s and update without renaming?
<cyphermox> yes, we can
<seb128> renames break vcs, bugs tracking, etc
<cyphermox> it should be straightforward too
<seb128> seems Josselin say they will rename back once their transition done
<jbicha> right, for instance, it looks like gnome-pilot has been ported
<seb128> well it's basically take the debian version, rename the changelog and control entries
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<vish> vuntz: does System monitor also use bonobo? or does that work in gnome-panel 3.x ?
<cyphermox> seb128: bug invalidated, the rest will be ready in a minute
<vish> the applet..
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, can you review the e-d-s and evo sponsoring requests?
<vuntz> vish: it's in gnome-applets, so it should work with the new library
<vish> neat!
<didrocks> seb128: sure, one sec, looking at the merge proposal
<didrocks> cyphermox: so, not a sync finally?
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<cyphermox> didrocks: yes, but renaming the source package to keep it named evolution-data-server, not evolution-data-server3
<didrocks> cyphermox: do you have the e-d-s link handy? Only finding evolution right now
<cyphermox> no, we only just got to that decision. I'm fixing the branch now
<cyphermox> (and sorry, I was with the insurance lady before)
<didrocks> cyphermox: no worry :)
<didrocks> cyphermox: is there something decided in the debian vs upstream soname for e-d-s?
<seb128> didrocks, read #debian-gnome backlog
<seb128> didrocks, the renaming is basically for easy migration in debian, they will rename it back later on
<seb128> didrocks, we don't want to get vcs, bug tracker, etc be confused by a source rename for no reason in Ubuntu
<didrocks> seb128: got it, thanks :)
<didrocks> and the soname is now upstream
<didrocks> well in debian I meant
<didrocks> thanks to bigon :)
<didrocks> cyphermox: some comments on the merge, no blocker though
<cyphermox> ok
<chrisccoulson> does anyone know who wrote "Evolution takes about 25/30 MB" on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/desktop-o-default-email-client/ ?
<chrisccoulson> i'd like to know where they got their numbers from :)
<pitti> as we are going to keep eds, that's clearly a gross exaggeration
<pitti> the "evolution" package is 236 kB
<pitti> add some stuff which is only used by the UI and not for eds, we might end up with 1 or 2 MB
<pitti> which is a lot smaller than the 12 MB that tbird requires
<cyphermox> nah, Evolution takes 5-6 MB tops if you count evolution and EDS
<cyphermox> (my guesstimate from last week)
<pitti> right, but EDS will be kept either way
<cyphermox> right, then yeah, it's just a matter of maybe 1-2 MB
<cyphermox> didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/evolution-data-server/3.0.0-1ubuntu1/+merge/61426 , I messed up and did a debcommit rather than bzr commit though, sorry for the mess in my commit message ;)
<didrocks> cyphermox: let do a quick review in pm
<pitti> chrisccoulson: would it be possible for an XPI to append bookmarks to the default set?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - that's not possible at the moment
<pitti> chrisccoulson: i. e. we'd like to keep the standard Ubuntu and Mozilla bookmarks, but a loco team wants to add popular local pages
<pitti> chrisccoulson: is it possible to completely replace them?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, we might be able to do that
<chrisccoulson> (append bookmarks)
<pitti> (then our loco package build system could just add the standard ones)
<dpm> hi pitti, we set the deadline for testing the new Natty langpacks as today, so whenever you've got the chance, do you think you could upload the Natty langpacks listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA ? Thanks!
<chrisccoulson> but we definitely can't replace them without rebuilding firefox
<pitti> chrisccoulson: oh, so replacing is harder than appending?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: well, whatever is easier
<pitti> dpm: sure
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, although i've never tested appending bookmarks before
<dpm> excellent, thanks pitti
<pitti> dpm: are these bug reports regressions?
<pitti> didrocks: in your French loco images, do you touch bookmarks at all?
<chrisccoulson> but bookmarks are bundled with firefox, and you can only replace them if you do a fully localized rebuild of it
<chrisccoulson> (ie, there's no way to ship external localized bookmarks, like we can do with searchplugins)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I guess that's one of the first things a Loco might want to customize
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's going to be pretty hard to solve
<didrocks> pitti: yes, we add the french websites
<pitti> didrocks: how did you do that?
<chrisccoulson> the bookmarks are stored with the default profile data, which is bundled in a big jar file
<LLStarks> cjwatson, is there a bug number for the oneiric pidgin packaging situation with perl?
<didrocks> pitti: let me show you the script
<pitti> chrisccoulson: for reference, I'm currently drafting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Oneriric/LocalizedCDImageTools
<didrocks> pitti: we change /etc/firefox/profile/bookmarks.html
<pitti> didrocks: I think /etc/firefox/ was completely abolished with ffox 4
<micahg> LLStarks: there's bug 781520, I don't see another specifically filed
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 781520 in pidgin "dependency on old libperl5.10" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781520
<didrocks> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/609577/ and http://paste.ubuntu.com/609578/
<pitti> chrisccoulson: changing the default search engine might be easier? I suppose the loco XPI can change any configuration value?
<LLStarks> thanks micahg
<didrocks> pitti: hum, interesting, the testers didn't report that issue though
<pitti> didrocks: thanks, that's helpful!
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, changing things in /etc/firefox/profile definitely won't do anything now ;)
<pitti> didrocks: well, it still might work in natty, but I thought chrisccoulson mentioned that /etc/firefox was gone
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it's definitely gone
<chrisccoulson> all that information lives in ${LIBDIR}/omni.jar now
<didrocks> pitti: the first one is just a wrapper for creating the image, the second one is what is launched inside the chroot
<cjwatson> LLStarks: the one above should do, sure
<chrisccoulson> and i wouldn't be too happy about people using scripts to edit the contents of that ;)
<pitti> didrocks: right, I was about to ask
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh "nice" :/
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, it's to reduce startup time ;)
<chrisccoulson> (so firefox isn't reading a bazillion files off the disk like it used to)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: to avoid that, we want to provide a centralized script which does all the nasty work, so that locos don't have to
<didrocks> pitti: please don't be shocked by the script, it's hackish ***warning***
<pitti> didrocks: that's fine -- that's the point of that spec :)
<didrocks> I think you will particularly appreciate the "Translation of casper-md5check" part ;)
<chrisccoulson> to add bookmarks, you can try editing the distribution.ini we ship (https://wiki.mozilla.org/Distribution_INI_File)
<chrisccoulson> but i've never tested that
<pitti> chrisccoulson: is that path hardcoded?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - the distribution.ini?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: we certainly shouldn't edit omni.jar in-place; woudl you recommend that the loco package puts its own omni.jar somewhere with updated default/profile/bookmarks.html, or should we rather use the ini?
<chrisccoulson> i would try using the distribution.ini first
<pitti> (in the former case, firefox would need to be changed to first look into /usr/lib/firefox/ubuntu-l10n.jar, and fall back to /usr/lib/firefox-4.0.1/omni.jar)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, noting that
<chrisccoulson> the omni.jar is pretty much the entire firefox chrome, so it's not something that loco's would generally be building
<didrocks> does it override, or is it just adding?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, only adding, i think
<chrisccoulson> i've never tried it though
<pitti> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Distribution_INI_File looks useful, thanks!
<pitti> adding is fine
<pitti> I'll try that first
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: would be nice to still be able to add them first
<didrocks> like french people prefers ubuntu-fr.org to ubuntu.com I guess
<pitti> chrisccoulson: in case it doesn't work, do you think that fixing it would be accepted upstream, as they document it?
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, why did you upgrade e-d-s to 2.91.92 and not 3.0.0?
<pitti> didrocks: we only ship two folders (Firefox and Ubuntu) by default, and no top-level bookmarks; so that might still be acceptable?
<cyphermox> rodrigo_: that's an error, it was synced, don't worry about it, I'm working on 3.0.0 right now
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, ah, ok
<didrocks> pitti: probably, yeah, if it's kept like that (folders and not entries)
<didrocks> pitti: btw, how can I help you on that spec?
<pitti> didrocks: once I'm done with the initial drafting round, I'd like to ask you to review it, correct some mistakes, and perhaps add other things locos are interested in changing
<didrocks> pitti: sure
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, i guess i could try distributing our custom bookmarks in distribution.ini rather than patching the default profile data
<chrisccoulson> that could make them easier to localize
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure if there's a technical reason not to do that though
<chrisccoulson> perhaps it doesn't support favicons
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: if you can give it a try, let me know about the outcome :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i don't think it does, which would suck
<chrisccoulson> so all the bookmark entries would have a placeholder icon by default
<didrocks> right, doesn't sound attractive :/
<chrisccoulson> yeah. we ship the icon data in the profile to avoid that
<pitti> ah, bummer; but well, good enough as a first step
<pitti> I fully expect that this will be continuously refined
 * pitti waves good night
<bcurtiswx_> nite pitti
<seb128> 'night pitti
<seb128> pitti, if you feel like doing some other debian uploads tomorrow morning libnotify could do wit an update and a sync then ;-)
<seb128> just saying now because you will be up hours before me :p
<Laney> â¥ for doing updates in debian
<seb128> pitti, have fun !
<seb128> Laney, I've done a bunch of those today as well ;-)
<didrocks> see you pitti!
<Laney> seb128: I saw, good stuff!
<Laney> btw has anyone talked about doing a gnome3 remix?
<seb128> still hate to have to upload the binaries on my slow upload :p
<seb128> Laney, there was some emails on https://lists.launchpad.net/gnome3-team about a team who wanted to do that
<Laney> cool
<seb128> Laney, not sure what's the point though
<seb128> or what do you call "remix"? building an iso with gnome-shell as the default desktop?
<Laney> yes
<seb128> the guys on the list were rather trying to fork the packaging for the GNOME stack
<seb128> which is not really constructive to do
<seb128> having a GNOME iso would be nice
<Laney> right
<Laney> don't know if it would require some stracciatella work though
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm not sure what to do about the firefox SRU verification. with the exception of 1 bug, i picked the crashes out of http://crash-stats.mozilla.com/ , as people aren't reporting these bugs to launchpad (and i don't think there's a way for me to contact the people who reported the crashes to ask them to test it)
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure there will be much participation to verify them ;)
<bcurtiswx_> chrisccoulson: * pitti waves good night <-- FYI
<chrisccoulson> ah ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, usually for those case the verification is "run the new version for a week and check nothing you were using breaks"
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, that should be ok
<chrisccoulson> i'm trying to find out if i can get hold of e-mail addresses of submitters ;)
<chrisccoulson> b'ah, david-suisse1 is really annoying me
<dobey> hrmm
<dobey> what's the plan to deal with apps that don't migrate to gtk 3.0 soon?
 * chrisccoulson hides
<dobey> chrisccoulson: from my question, or from the swiss?
<chrisccoulson> dobey, your question ;)
<chrisccoulson> seeing as i maintain 2 packages that will probably still be using gtk 2 this cycle ;)
<dobey> chrisccoulson: well, i guess ffox/tbird aren't a big issue here.
<dobey> i don't think anyway
<dobey> they sort of totally do their own thing anyway
<micahg> dobey: they are in that we'll need GTK2 on the CD :)
<dobey> micahg: yes, but not important for what i'm asking. :)
<dobey> u1 for example is in a very odd position, since we provide apps, as well as plug-ins to other apps
<dobey> so what i'm really worried about is banshee, etc... where we provide plug-ins
<dobey> i'm guessing that if they stay gtk2, and we try to embed gtk3, things will get very unpleasant there
<rodrigo_> dobey, yeah, crashes if gtk2/3 symbols are detected
<dobey> yeah, i've been down the multi-linking road before :)
<dobey> and i really need to come up with a sane plan of attack for this, as u1 is totally broken on O right now
<rodrigo_> dobey, banshee is on gtk2, right, what about rhythmbox?
<rodrigo_> for nautilus plugin, using gtk3 should be ok, as we have 3.0.0 already in O
<dobey> rodrigo_: well, rhythmbox is upstream gnome. so i presume they're already moving if haven't already
<dobey> also not the default, so less of a concern at the moment
<dobey> ie, i'm happy to break rbox support if i have to, for a while
<rodrigo_> dobey, right, but not sure there's a gtk3 build yet
<rodrigo_> not sure though
<dobey> don't know
<ricotz> rodrigo_, there is ;)
<rodrigo_> ok
<dobey> and i know nautilus 3.0 is in already, that's why u1-client is FTBFS :)
<rodrigo_> so, the problem is banshee then, which is at gtk2, so you can't build the music store widget with gtk3 for both banshee and rhythmbox :(
<dobey> but i was thinking of moving code around, to fix that
<dobey> well banshee will be gtk3 for O it seems
<rodrigo_> then you're set for gtk3 :)
<dobey> not entirely
<dobey> but at least my immediate concern seems to have an answer :)
<rodrigo_> why not?
<dobey> because i don't even want to begin to think about all the issues that will come up in trying to make everything actually work on gtk3
<seb128> debian has its rhythmbox on gtk3
<seb128> they have a git snapshot
<seb128> we will get when someone do the merge to oneiric
<ricotz> seb128, it is in the ppa
<seb128> ricotz, what about doing a merge request for oneiric? ;-)
<ricotz> feel free to review it ;)
<seb128> ricotz, if you do a merge request we will review it ;-)
<ricotz> seb128, i dont have the time to prepare it properly :(
<seb128> ricotz, ok, I guess we will come to it, we go through the updates using the ppa anyway
<seb128> so work is not lost don't worry
<ricotz> seb128, alright :)
<seb128> ricotz, but if you feel like doing some oneiric updates just do it and propose merge requests ;-)
<seb128> cyphermox, oh btw if you do gnome-bluetooth you can probably comment the indicator patch for now
<seb128> not sure how libappindicator gtk3 application will play with the gtk2 stack and it might get superseded by the device indicator this cycle
<seb128> to check with tedg maybe
<seb128> kenvandine, could you review,sponsor http://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/geoclue/lp738584/+merge/57921
<seb128> kenvandine, you are probably the one who know best geoclue there
<seb128> didrocks, do you think you can claim the gnome-session GNOME3 update? you had work items for gnome-session and rebasing the session system on the upstream version so it would make sense if it was you?
<didrocks> seb128: I think it will make sense, right, will take some time though
<seb128> didrocks, -> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/oneiric-desktop just drop a note there saying you will do it
<seb128> didrocks, no hurry, updates will take some weeks to settle anyway
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: ok, dropping a note as being the victim of gnome-session :)
<seb128> didrocks, 'ci
<didrocks> seb128: de rien ;)
<kenvandine> seb128, sure
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<ricotz> seb128, you probably know, but besides gnome-bluetooth also networkmanager 0.9 is pretty much needed for g-c-c and g-s
<seb128> ricotz, rodrigo says he has a patch to turn the g-c-c requirement down
<ricotz> seb128, i think it isnt a good idea to turn it off since it need to go anyway
<ricotz> *go in anyway
<dobey> oh man, i forgot about nm 0.9
<dobey> wonder what changes we need to make for that too
<ricotz> it works quite well with the current stack
<ricotz> wlan with wpa works fine here
<ricotz> of course normal lan too
<dobey> ricotz: i mean to use the API
<dobey> not to use NM as a user
<ricotz> dobey, right
<dobey> and i know the API broke
<kasztan_85> Hi, I accidentally removed the system accounts in the Accounts manager in ubuntu 11.04. After restarting the server does not start X. You can fix it somehow?
<seb128> kasztan_85, try #ubuntu for user support
<seb128> ricotz, we want to settle the ui bits for now, there is no really need to get the new n-m controls
<seb128> the n-m stack is used in i.e kubuntu as well
<seb128> the indicator patch will need a rebase
<ricotz> seb128, ok, patching g-c-c could be buggy too, but i see your point
<seb128> those will take some time
<ricotz> yeah of course
<seb128> ricotz, well it's only an UI
<seb128> it's better to break an ui control than the stack
<seb128> the old standalone ui works fine
<ricotz> yes, and the g-c-c ui parts too
<ricotz> seb128, do you know if the telepathy-glib 0.15 "branch" is considered unstable?
<seb128> no, ask on #telepathy I guess
<ricotz> 0.14 got a separate branch and 0.14.6 was the last release from there
<ricotz> ok
<seb128> we will get it to oneiric synced from debian tomorrow
<ricotz> seb128, it already is
<seb128> but I gues you care about the ppa? the ppa should probably not track unstable series
<seb128> ricotz, it already is what?
<ricotz> that is why i asked -- it is already in oneiric
<seb128> oh, great, I though it was uploaded after today's sync run
<seb128> that's why I said tomorrow
<gazalam> hello everyone
<gazalam> Can anyone tell me why I keep getting this error while running configure with anjuta 3? I am doing a basic program... I have all of the required dev packages... it's even worked before. AM_GLIB_GNU_GETTEXT: command not found
<dobey> autoconf is failing
<gazalam> should I reinstall?
<dobey> reinstall what?
<gazalam> autoconf...
<dobey> i don't know how anjuta does things, but i can tell you that your configure file was not generated properly
<dobey> reinstalling autoconf isn't going to help
<dobey> you probably need to ask the anjuta developers about it, rather than the asking here
<dobey> i'm not sure anyone here actually uses anjuta
<gazalam> ok
<gazalam> thanks
<nessita> dobey: I don't understand why you removed the test-gsd-... file
<Amaranth> desktop. so. ugly. :/
<Amaranth> But hey, exposed a compiz bug
<dobey> Amaranth: get some wood cleaner, and wax it good
<nessita> dobey: sorry, wrong channel, see channel next door :-)
<kamusin> hello nessita :)
<nessita> hello kamusin :-)
<geser> seb128_: I've started looking at the pidgin FTBFS and I know what triggers it (patching the configure.ac from 02_lpi.patch triggers a regeneration of the auto* files) but I've no idea why it fails or how to fix it :(
<seb128> geser, ok, so it's likely the autoreconf run
<geser> seb128: any ideas how to debug this further? I've tried to diff some Makefiles below finch/libgnt but didn't see any obvious difference that would explain this
<seb128> not really, what is the error again?
<geser> *** No rule to make target `../libgnt.la', needed by `irssi.la'.  Stop.
<seb128> is there a libgnt.la?
<geser> seb128: no, and other files are missing too (the same directory from a not-autoreconfed build contains many *.lo and libgnt.la in the same directory)
<geser> when I run "make libgnt.la" from build/finch/libgnt it succeeds without an error (exit code 0) but no files in that directory (besides Makefile and gnt.pc)
<geser> (or I'm looking at the wrong place)
<seb128> urg
<seb128> trying asking on #ubuntu-devel maybe
<seb128> slangasek or others might have a clue about it
 * micahg thought the pidgin thing was fallout from .la cleaning
<seb128> what la cleaning?
<micahg> seb128: emptying dependency_libs last cycle
<seb128> that shouldn't create any issye
<seb128> issue
<seb128> emptying the depends doesn't break anything
<micahg> right, but maybe something came back in accidentally
<seb128> that .la is in the pidgin build anyway
<geser> micahg: that .la file is part of upstream and an unmodified pidgin from Debian builds fine (even disabling an Ubuntu patch touching configure.ac builds fine then too)
<micahg> geser: k
<ricotz> seb128, you probably dont like the idea adding more packages to the ppa, i am thinking about vte, gvfs and d-conf
<seb128> ricotz, why do you need those?
<ricotz> seb128, e.g. to follow the d-conf package split to serve the dependencies for newer packages
<ricotz> and the gir - dev package deps
<seb128> stop adding new crack to the ppa?
<seb128> let it the way it's now?
<seb128> nothing stop updates to be done keeping the same packaging
<seb128> you don't need to bring oneiric versions with their packaging changes in
<seb128> you could just update the versions over the ppa versions
<ricotz> hmm, alright, lets see how far this works
<ricotz> seb128, is updating metacity on the todo list yet?
<seb128> no
<seb128> we use compiz
<ricotz> seb128, ok, updating it to 2.34 should be done though
<dobey> seb128: doesn't 2d fallback use metacity?
<seb128> the team is open to contributions
<seb128> dobey, unity-2d does yes
<dobey> seb128: "classic gnome" doesn't?
<ricotz> dobey, i think so too
<seb128> dobey, classic does use compiz by default
<seb128> it just fallback if compiz can't be use
<seb128> used
<dobey> right
<seb128> but in any case nobody there cares about the fallback it seems
<ricotz> ok
<seb128> so if people want to update it do it, don't wait on others
<geser> seb128: I've done some further testing and it seems to be a libtool issue as after downgrading libtool to the version in natty, pidgin builds again
<seb128> oh, great
<ricotz> seb128, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ricotz/metacity/
<seb128> ricotz, ?
<ricotz> seb128, i dont want to do a merge proposal since the metacity branch is pretty messed up, and it isnt a debian-only branch :\
<seb128> ricotz, open a sponsoring bug if you have an update, I've no clue nor interesting in it and doesn't plan to review or upload anything with has to do with it, I'm using compiz for years and i've enough to do
<ricotz> if you want to look at it, the file are located there
<seb128> just open a bug and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<ricotz> ok
<ricotz> seb128, fyi, i had this package done a while ago, so i didnt updated it now ;-)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> you should really think about trying to get your updates in the archive rather than just in the ppa as you are doing ;-)
<ricotz> this one isnt even in a ppa :\
<ricotz> seb128, i dont want to be annoying but how come that something like this got accepted - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/metacity/natty/revision/107
<seb128> ricotz, dunno
<seb128> you should ask someone who reviewed it or worked on it
<seb128> it's likely from the unity-2d team, nobody cares about the source to argue
<ricotz> seb128, ok, i see, still part of the desktop packages ;)
<ricotz> alright, i wont bother you today no more ;), good night
<seb128> we have some pretty unmaintained things there
<seb128> 'night ricotz
<seb128> bye
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-19
<LLStarks> does the gnome3 spec have an anticipated breakage timeline.
<LLStarks> that is, is there any notes about the current breakage and future ones?
<chrisccoulson> w00t, i'm down from number 10 to number 12 now: http://is.gd/C8FvA1 \o/
<chrisccoulson> hopefully that trend will continue
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> Goooood morning pitti!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: firefox SRU> I think regression testing and extensively testing the scrollbar will do
<kenvandine> pitti, good morning
<pitti> RAOF: Â¡ooÊ 'noÊ oÊ ÆuÄ±uÉ¹oÉ¯ pooÆ Ê×ÇÊo× É
<pitti> (.au compatible)
<pitti> hey kenvandine
 * RAOF needs to work out where that script is :)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, is there any case where the X server returning non-zero could be considered not a failure?
<RAOF> I don't *think* so.  Would you like me to grep the code?
<robert_ancell> RAOF, nah, I was just wondering if there was a weird X-ism I should know of
<RAOF> I don't *think* so.
<robert_ancell> I'm totally going to hold you to that
<pitti> hey robert_ancell, how are you? feeling better?
<robert_ancell> pitti, yeah, seem to be fully recovered
<pitti> nice
<robert_ancell> I got some antibiotics which fixed everything up nicely
<pitti> ah, heh, the big club
<robert_ancell> no one else sick?  Timing would put it pretty close to the team dinner
<pitti> robert_ancell: jasoncwarner was as well, and I think TheMuso mentioned it as well
<robert_ancell> ech
 * RAOF was mostly fine.  Or, at least, not statistically distingushable from âI hate flyingâ
<pitti> hm, Australia is a pretty bad place to be at for flying haters :-(
<pitti> but then again, who doesn't hate flying
<RAOF> Someone who doesn't take 30+ hour flights five times a year :)
<jasoncwarner> robert_ancell: ! feeling better? or better enough to drop into IRC ;) yeah...some of us in AU seemed to get sick...but none as bad as you!
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, I think I just had bad timing.  If I'd left a day earlier or a few days later it wouldn't have been much of a problem
<jasoncwarner> robert_ancell: wondering if you should do a week of fasting in dublin just in case ;)
<robert_ancell> I'm taking my own stash of food, I don't trust these hotels!
<robert_ancell> plus a pure diet of guinness can't get you sick right?
<jasoncwarner> I've never heard of anyone getting sick from such a thing...never!
<pitti> I didn't quite like Guiness, but I still remember having great beer in all these pubs on Grafton street
<jasoncwarner> I for one, even though I don't drink that much, will be making it to the guiness factory...have to experience it once!
<RAOF> I hope to have a little bit more time to wander, take photographs, and play Race for the Galaxy than UDS :)
<didrocks> good morning
<jasoncwarner> morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey jasoncwarner!
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: how are you? completely back in your timezone?
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti
<pitti> jasoncwarner: we did the brewery tour on the 2008 (or so) sprint; I think it was the same hotel even
<pitti> jasoncwarner: it's really worth it indeed, highly interesting
<jasoncwarner> didrocks: pretty much, yes. Feeling better as well. Slept like 12 hours last night, which is like sleeping 4 in baby hours ;)
<didrocks> I did it as well when I was on my 6 month internship in Dublin, was interesting :)
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: waow :-)
<didrocks> pitti: from what I understood, the hotel is not really far from stephen's green parc, isn't it?
<pitti> didrocks: it was close to _a_ park (on the way to Grafton street and city center)
<pitti> not sure what its name was, though
<didrocks> pitti: and a lovely comercial center, isn't it?
<pitti> just that OSM had an excellent plan of it :)
<pitti> maybe we'll see/hear more bands playing on Grafton street this time
<didrocks> pitti: very white, like this one: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Stephen%27s_Green_Centre.JPG
<pitti> ah, haven't seen that
<didrocks> ok, I'll bring you there, it's really beautiful ;)
<didrocks> oh didn't get any bands playing on Grafton street?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: would you mind reviewing https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-firefox-translations-in-launchpad today?
<pitti> didrocks: I just saw one once
<didrocks> oh, not very lucky then :/
 * pitti checks flights
<didrocks> will be weird to be back to Dubin TBH, not such a long time for me (5 years from now)
<pitti> EI 353  W  26JUN  MUC 1 DUB 2  1150  1320
<pitti> EI 352  R  02JUL  DUB 2 MUC 1  0720  1050
<pitti> hm, not much time on Sunday afternoon, neither on the Saturday after, but we'll have some time during the week evenings
<didrocks> right, and Dublin is very nice in the evening, city's lights are nice
<dpm> morning pitti!, did you have the chance to upload the natty langpacks, and if so, can I clear the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA page ?
<pitti> dpm: yes, I moved them to -updates last night
<dpm> pitti, great, thanks, I'll clear the wiki then
<pitti> cheers
<pitti> didrocks: I'd appreciate some feedback from you on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-cd-localization
<didrocks> pitti: sure, looking
<pitti> sabdfl: good morning Mark
<pitti> sabdfl: if you have a moment for cross-checking the general strategy there? ^
<cdbs> pitti: The work items tracker, does it work? Sorry but this is the first time I'm dealing with tasks assigned to myself :(
<pitti> cdbs: yes, it's happily tracking oneiric WIs
<pitti> the trend lines are off, since we didn't officially start tracking yet
<cdbs> pitti: silly question, but where is it hosted? :D
<cdbs> maybe because I'm looking at the wrong place
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-desktop-team.html for desktop team
<seb128> hey desktopers
<seb128> hey pitti
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> wie gehts?
<cdbs> good morning seb128
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke!
<pitti> seb128: saw your ping wrt. libnotify, on my list
<seb128> pitti, thanks ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I just finished drafting my last spec, so I'll get to that now
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<seb128> hey cdbs didrocks
<pitti> seb128: do you think you'll have some time today for spec reviews?
<seb128> pitti, yes
<pitti> cool
<seb128> will go through the ones I'm approver for today
<baga> hello
<seb128> hi baga
<baga> is there anyone in here using gnome3 in ubuntu 11.04 ?
<seb128> baga, you should better just ask your question if you have one, some people tried that, some people use a vm, etc but you could get a reply from people who know about it without running it
<cdbs> baga: yes, go ahead, ask your question
<cdbs> !anyone | baga
<ubot2> baga: A large amount of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..."  Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.
<pitti> seb128: ah bummer, libnotify isn't in pkg-gnome
<seb128> pitti, it is?
<pitti> not according to http://packages.qa.debian.org/libn/libnotify.html
<pitti> and svn+ssh://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-gnome/desktop/experimental/libnotify doesn't exist either
<Laney> pochu has been uploading it though
<seb128> hum
<pitti> not that much of a biggie, though; as soon as Debian updates, we can sync again
<seb128> pitti, http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-gnome/packages/unstable/libnotify
<dpm> pitti, re: the localized cd tools, there's also http://uck.sourceforge.net/ which some locos use. I've added it to the references section of the spec
<seb128> http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-gnome/packages/experimental/libnotify/debian/changelog
<seb128> pitti, ^ it's in packages, not desktop
<pitti> ah
<pitti> I'll add a Vcs-* header then
<seb128> pitti, desktop is official GNOME desktop set
<baga> ok. yesterday i installed gnome3 using ppa:gnome3-team/gnome3 and it work fine until this morning after i'm upgrade my ubuntu and gnome3 session not working properly.
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> pitti, yw ;-)
<seb128> baga, what is not working properly?
<rodrigo_> morning
<baga> after i reboot my laptop. there is no gnome session only ubuntu session
<baga> by the way i'm using ubuntu 11.04 64 bit
<rodrigo_> hmm, my brasero upload was rejected because of lack of permissions, isn't it part of the gnome stack?
<pitti> it ought to be
<pitti> probably wasn't when we set up the packageset, hang on
<rodrigo_> ok
<pitti> oh, brasero, not banshee
<pitti> that's weird indeed
<pitti> rodrigo_: try again
<rodrigo_> ok
<geser> seb128: re the pidgin FTBFS: thanks to slangasek I now know how to fix it (use dh-autoreconf to get a working set of regenerated autotools files) but it got too late yesterday to get a merge of pidgin done.
<seb128> geser, is pidgin not using autoreconf yet?
<geser> seb128: no, the Makefile(?) calls automake and aclocal when it finds the patched configure.ac but not libtoolize which caused the FTBFS due to the version mismatch AFAIU
<seb128> ok, things patching configure.ac should use dh-autoreconf nowadays
<seb128> we ported most of GNOME to it and it works great
<seb128> geser, thanks a lot for debugging it!
<seb128> geser, let me know if you need any sponsoring
<geser> will do, probably today evening
<pitti> seb128: libnotify done
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> geser, is that just a matter of using dh-autoreconf, do you want me to do it?
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm great, thanks! how about yourself? sleeping longer again these days?
<geser> seb128: yes, just add "include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/autoreconf.mk" (I hope I remember that path correctly) to debian/rules and pidgin builds again. And replacing our addition of libtool to Build-Depends with dh-autoreconf
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i only slept in because i don't feel too well today ;)
<seb128> geser, ok, thanks (I know how to make things use dh-autoreconf no worry ;-)
<pitti> argh, late ubuflu?
<chrisccoulson> i've almost lost my voice today. it's a good job i don't need to talk to people ;)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i've had it all week, but today is definitely the worst so far
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<didrocks> pitti: urgh, my comments didn't intend to be so long, sorry about it :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm pretty much ready to push the button on firefox 5 (i'm just waiting for mozilla to push it to the beta channel)
<chrisccoulson> it contains the new language packs
<pitti> didrocks: don't apologize for being thorough :)
<chrisccoulson> how often do we get language pack updates in oneiric?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: is that blocked for uploading oneiric langpacks without XPIs, or did you add replaces:?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: not at all so far
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i've added replaces
<pitti> we'll need replaces anyway for upgrades, I think
<chrisccoulson> which sort-of works. but it leaves some residual search plugins for non en-US users for now (as some of the mozilla localized plugins have different filenames to the ones we ship)
<chrisccoulson> that will go away once langpack-o-matic, but it means that some users will get english + localized plugins for some search services temporarily in oneiric
<chrisccoulson> **once langpack-o-matic is fixed
<chrisccoulson> d'oh
 * chrisccoulson needs coffee
<pitti> sounds fine to me at this early point
<chrisccoulson> pitti - do you want me to remove your work item from desktop-o-mozilla-rapid-release-maintenance? I think that's already covered in desktop-o-firefox-translations-in-launchpad
<pitti> didrocks: followed up to your comments, thanks!
<didrocks> pitti: yw ;)
<seb128> pitti, do you read https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seed/+bug/782972 as "you can promote" as well?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 782972 in seed "[mir] seed" [Undecided,In progress]
<pitti> seb128: the bug status seems "approved", let me check
<seb128> oh, mterry is already there
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, right, please
<seb128> mterry, hey ;-)
<didrocks> pitti: oh, you removed one of my item (hennekn wrongly moved it), I'm moving back, again ;)
<seb128> mterry, can I promote seed and libpeas? ;-)
<pitti> kees acked it
<pitti> didrocks: I did? I was about to restore your comments that hennekm killed, but someone else already restored it
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I restored between, editing war blueprints not handling conflicts :)
<didrocks> done now
<didrocks> pitti: ok, on your feedback, looking at the spec updated now
<chrisccoulson> pitti - ok, i'll do that. am i meant to be approver for desktop-o-firefox-translations-in-launchpad ?
<chrisccoulson> i just realized i can approve it ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, as I was the drafter, and you are the firefox guru for cross-checking
<didrocks> pitti: for the additional files, I would just be in favor of either localizable examples (which other bin package by local shipping them), or just an additional source package
<chrisccoulson> pitti - cool. ok, it's approved now then :)
<pitti> didrocks: I agree; everythign shoudl be packaged, otherwise upgrades/fixes/CD builds will be impossible
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yay
<didrocks> pitti: waow, seeing your diff on the spec, that would put simplecommeubuntu in main. I'm fine with it! :)
<didrocks> pitti: and agree on the major issue which can be seen only as "== Possible future improvements =="
<chrisccoulson> pitti - if you feel like using your axe, then bug 782088 might be for you :)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 782088 in firetray "Please remove firetray and blacklist" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/782088
<pitti> didrocks: I see nothing wrong with having an Ubuntu book in main, as long as it's kept up to date
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, this time it wasn't the case due to ETOOFEWTIMES, but for the last 5 years, it was up in beta (meaning: additional reading to fix typo needed) before RC and up to date in the final version for the release. I'll move the schedule a little bit before, praying for no last minute design change (taking screenshots is time consuming)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: *splatter*
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
 * pitti off for some errands and lunch
<chrisccoulson> pitti - desktop-o-mozilla-rapid-release-maintenance is ready for approval once you get back from lunch
<chrisccoulson> plenty of removals this cycle ;)
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to be popular
<chrisccoulson> and someone said at UDS that we never remove old cruft from the archive!
<seb128> we don't
<seb128> you just try to clean things user run, not cruft ;-=)
<seb128> pitti, btw I unassigned ubuntu-desktop from the desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3 to not spam the list at each whiteboard update
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, this is a really ugly screenshot (except for the web content, of course): https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71997567/html5Ubuntuweb.PNG
<kinoucho`> hello
<rodrigo_> any idea why we disable dbus in evince package?
<seb128> do we?
<seb128> rodrigo_, or do we have 2 builds, one gtk only one and a normal one and it's off only in the gtk build?
<rodrigo_> hmm
<rodrigo_> yes, we disable it for the gtk build
<rodrigo_> the debian package doesn't have that anymore, so do I keep it?
<seb128> rodrigo_, they don't have what?
<rodrigo_> the --disable-dbus call for evince-gtk
<kinoucho`> hello seb128
<rodrigo_> s/call/argument
<seb128> lut kinoucho`, ca va ?
<seb128> rodrigo_, just follow what they do
<seb128> not sure it still make sense to have a gtk binary anyway
<seb128> we should ask on #debian-gnome
<kinoucho`> seb128: yes and you?
<seb128> kinoucho`, I'm fine thanks ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, they still have evince-common and evince-gtk, they have merged all libev* packages into one though
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, evince-gtk is built without keyring support
<rodrigo_> so I'll keep as it is in debian, ok?
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, I just debdiffed the binaries it still make sense
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, the gtk one doesn't ship the nautilus thumbnailer and doesn't depends on gvfs
<rodrigo_> now only missing our patches, and should be ready to upload
<seb128> ok, great
<seb128> pitti, oh, you didn't update libnotify to the current minor version?
<ricotz> rodrigo_, hello :)
<rodrigo_> hi ricotz
<ricotz> rodrigo_, i noticed the brasero upload, but i am a bit confused about the dependency wait
<rodrigo_> what is it waiting for?
<ricotz> it claims that libtracker-client-0.8-dev is missing
<ricotz> which is available though
<rodrigo_> hmm, yes, it is
<ricotz> i will copy it to the ppa and see what happens
<seb128> ricotz, rodrigo_: tracker is in universe
<seb128> we don't want to build-dep on it
<seb128> is that build-depends optional?
<ricotz> seb128, ah, that explains it ;), so the ppa will work
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, not optional, no, but can make it optional, I guess
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, please do
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> we don't want to install tracker by default
<seb128> nessita, hey, how are you?
<seb128> didrocks, so, question for you
<nessita> seb128: preeeetty good. You?
 * didrocks hides
<didrocks> hey nessita
<seb128> nessita, I'm fine thanks ;-)
<nessita> hi didrocks! how's life going?
<seb128> didrocks, what was the issue with glew and unity previous cycle which made us downgrade and can we sync 1.6 in oneiric?
<didrocks> nessita: going fine, thanks, sunny weather!
<didrocks> seb128: apparently, some issue on intel card where compositing didn't activate after the upgrade IIRC
<seb128> didrocks, bug #711396 was the issue but I guess nobody ever reviewed if that was nux or glew being buggy?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 711396 in glew "segfault in nux::IOpenGLFrameBufferObject::Deactivate" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/711396
<didrocks> seb128: I guess the guilty was glew itself and not nux. But better to check again with the Xorg guys first
<seb128> didrocks, do we know of anybody who had the issue who could try if that's still one with 1.6?
<seb128> or should we just sync and wait for bugs to come and debug then?
<didrocks> seb128: I would say so, yeah, better to sync now and wait for debug. I don't remember if i945 were affected
<didrocks> I think they were
<seb128> didrocks, ok, I will check with the X guys and install it there to see if it obviously break on intel
<seb128> didrocks, if it's fine I will sync and we can wait for complains ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: right, i can give it a try with my intel hardware as well, if you want
<didrocks> yeah, seems a good plan! :)
<didrocks> glew has a patch for the .pc IIRC as well
<didrocks> but maybe debian took it now (I didn't see any activity on the upstream bug report)
<seb128> didrocks, the #ubuntu-x guys can probably get it in debian if it's not there yet
<didrocks> seb128: right, I remember that it was accidentally removed once, and I was starting to cry building nux :)
<chrisccoulson> right, i'm going to take the plunge in to oneiric now
<chrisccoulson> wish me luck!
<chrisccoulson> :)
<chrisccoulson> oops. it helps if i spell oneiric correctly in my sources.list
<chrisccoulson> i wondered why i had like 5 packages to upgrade
<chrisccoulson> hmm, i think i'm just going to stop reading d-d-l before it makes me depressed
<chrisccoulson> it's a pretty hostile place to go
<cyphermox> heh
<cyphermox> good morning :)
<chrisccoulson> hi cyphermox, how are you? how was your flight back?
<cyphermox> it was alright, uneventful.
<pitti> seb128: oh, 0.7.2 is still too old? darn
<pitti> seb128: putting on my list again then, sorry
<seb128> no worry
<cyphermox> rodrigo_: ping?
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, pong
<cyphermox> hey! :)
<cyphermox> I was wondering how far along g-c-c was ?
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, in lp~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-control-center/ubuntu, ready to be uploaded, but I wanted a review of all the patches I dropped
<cyphermox> cool
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, if you want to do the review, please do :)
<cyphermox> hehe I can always take a look, but can't merge
<cyphermox> oh nm
<rodrigo_> or maybe I can upload it and do other uploads as we find problkems/missing patches
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, oh, still not in ubuntu-desktop team?
<cyphermox> no
<cyphermox> waiting for +1s or -1s on the list ^.^
<rodrigo_> oh, can I +1? or am I too new?
<pitti> rodrigo_: if you sponsored cyphermox's packages, sure
<rodrigo_> I never did
<rodrigo_> so no +1 from me, sorry :)
<rodrigo_> anyway, lunch now
<hv> is gnome-settings-daemon mostly stabilized? it seems it is not working properly here. (should I investigage and bug-report?)
<seb128> rodrigo_, oh, you wait on review for g-c-c? your comment was not clear about that, it seemed like you dropped all patches and needed to port those
<pitti> hv: unlike yesterday, today my keybindings are working again
<pitti> and the unity panel shows the correct theme again
<pitti> (i. e. not the hicolor icons, but the humanity ones)
<seb128> hv, you should open a bug
<pitti> so I'd call that stable enough for this early oneiric stage :)
<pitti> the other ugliness is just because we lack a gtk 3 theme
<hv> I cannot change the theme, and desktop is not shown. instead nautilus is started in a *window*.
<pitti> both is expected breakage TTBOMK
<seb128> hv, well early times in unstable cycle don't give stable experience ;-)
<seb128> the nautilus issue is known
<hv> how about the theme issue?
<pitti> see above -- we don't yet have a theme for gtk3
<pitti> well, not an ubuntuish one anyway
<hv> oh, so it is not broken then
<pitti> well, it is broken, but "expectedly broken"
<pitti> but these window buttons look kinda cute as well, don't they? :-)
<cyphermox> adwaita kinda works
<hv> great! I can live with the theme and nautilus. I was worried if other things are broken, too.
<hv> so it is not really a gnome-settings-daemon problem anymore
<cyphermox> compiz seems to have major issues with redrawing here
<hv> is lightdm going to be the default btw?
<hv> btw, is the overlay-scrollbar going to ported to gtk3?
<pitti> yes to both
<pitti> a more firm yes to the latter, though
<pitti> there's still the (small) possibility that something goes wrong with lightdm, and we'll revert to gdm
<hv> lightdm randomly crashes for me, so I can see how that might happen ;)
<pitti> ah, I haven't tried it yet
 * pitti tries to stay to a default install as closely as possible for dogfooding
<kenvandine> seb128, FYI i updated overlay-scrollbars and the gtk2 patch in the PPA last night, in case we start seeing more bugs :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, no, I just dropped the ones that don't apply anymore because of that piece of code going away, so the review is about making sure what we need frtom those patches and add work items
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, I can do that
<seb128> hv, report bugs, issues can't be worked when they are not reported
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, is that for natty as well or just oneiric?
<seb128> kenvandine, what about the gtk3 theme? ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, cool, thanks
 * rodrigo_ goes back to finish cooking and lunch, bbl
<kenvandine> just for natty so far, didn't rush to do it for oneiric
<kenvandine> however when i do, i will put the oneiric build right in oneiric
<kenvandine> seb128, he has something done for the gtk3 engine, but he said he isn't going to be watching for bugs and merge proposals for it just yet, and won't do a release
<kenvandine> and there is no theme for it yet
<kenvandine> i'll get a snapshot packaged though, soon
<kenvandine> not the top of my list though :)
<seb128> kenvandine, why not?
<kenvandine> working on the tp-approver atm
<seb128> can we stop spending time on stupid scrollbars and get a working theme?
<kenvandine> hehe
<seb128> not joking
<chrisccoulson> still no theme?
<seb128> did you trying running oneiric?
<chrisccoulson> i'm just in the middle of upgrading ;)
<kenvandine> i'll try to get a timeline for when we can expect a theme
<kenvandine> seb128, no... not yet... but the gtk3 build of gwibber looks terrible :/
<kenvandine> i am going to switch this weekend, i think
<pitti> kenvandine: right, that's how oneiric looks now
<kenvandine> i figured :)
<pitti> FWIW, not the thing I'd put on #1 on the TODO list, though
<pitti> it works, just looks a bit bad
<kenvandine> i would say compared to new features in the scrollbar... it should be higher
<seb128> well, I would put it before scrollbars updates still
<pitti> agreed
<pitti> breakage > libraries > theme > scrollbars
<kenvandine> are we in a good state now to upgrade to oneiric?
<kenvandine> or should i wait a couple more days?
<seb128> it's stable enough to be used
<seb128> it's not rocking stable
<bryce> kenvandine, I did it on two systems, one upgraded fine, one blew up with kernel problems (probably because it's sandybridge)
<hv> is any gtk3 theme (e.g. off gnome-look.org) supposed to work, cuz the first one (sorted by rating) apparently isn't working.
<zniavre> gtk3 theme or gnome-shell theme ?
<zniavre> (oops sorry i hav not see im talking into this room)
<hv> more specifically, the theme change affects gnome-appearance-properties window but not anything else.
<seb128> hv, right, gtk3 has no theme and not sure if g-s-d is setting gtk2 themes
<dobey> eh? gtk3 has themes
<seb128> only one in the archive though
<dobey> yes
<seb128> not to mention that it has no UI out of the tweak tool to set one and the tweak tool depends on gnome-shell
<dobey> well 2
<dobey> the default, and the gnome one
<dobey> the dconf command line tool supposedly works, but i haven't gotten it to :(
<dobey> my gtk3 is still stuck in 1995
<dobey> but i've seen the problem being described by hv, on another user's computer at UDS, on 11.04
<dobey> and i'm pretty sure he didn't enable the gnome3 PPA at least. and it was immediately after he'd installed it.
<dobey> very weird
<pitti> dobey: g-s-d crash?
<dobey> pitti: that's what i thought, but gnome-appearance-properties worked fine. which makes no sense
<dobey> pitti: since if g-s-d crashes, g-a-p should end up with the crappy theme too if it's running when g-s-d crashes
<seb128> dobey, gnome-appearance-properties writes a gconf key which the new g-s-d doesn't read to apply the xsettings
<seb128> since g-s-d use gsettings and gnome-appearance-properties got dropped
<dobey> seb128: define "new" here? you mean in gnome 2 or gnome 3?
<seb128> dobey, gnome3
<chrisccoulson> urgh, my fonts are barely readable
<chrisccoulson> i hope that disappears after i restart
<dobey> seb128: i'm talking about 11.04 which is still gnome 2
<dobey> pretty sure we don't ship g-s-d 3.0 in it?
<pitti> right
<seb128> dobey, no it doesn't, but we were talking about gtk3 themes
<seb128> which don't really matter on natty since it has no gtk3 application
<dobey> seb128: well it matters if someone tries to set the gtk3 theme because they want to build/run a gtk3 app on 11.04.
<dobey> and i presume hv is just confused because he downloaded a gtk3 theme which probably also includes a gtk2 theme rc in it, so that both look the same. and so it appeared in gnome-appearance-properties
<dobey> gtk3 themes don't apppear there
<dobey> so the issue with g-a-p getting theme, but nothing else, doesn't really have anything to do with his mention of gtk3
<chrisccoulson> pitti, my firefox crasher has dropped from number 10 to number 13 on http://is.gd/OzxCYp since you approved the natty-proposed upload yesterday
<chrisccoulson> crash-stats is pretty cool!
<chrisccoulson> i wish we had something like that in launchpad ;)
<dpm> pitti, someone pointed this out on the translators list: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/610086/
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: +1
<rodrigo_> pitti, had same problem for my evince upload than with brasero, can you please fix it?
<rodrigo_> pitti, no permissions
<jbicha> hi, seed depends on gnome-js-common but that package hasn't been updated by Gnome in over a year
<jbicha> it looks like gnome-shell now just depends on gjs directly instead which is still being maintained
<seb128> hey jbicha
<seb128> mterry, ^ do you have any opinion on gnome-js-common?
<seb128> I'm wondering if we would turn the js support in libpeas off
<jbicha> I'm thinking we should ask seed to depend on gjs
<chrisccoulson> oh, that's really broken
<chrisccoulson> g-s-d crashes on start here ;)
<seb128> what version?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, 3.0.1-1ubuntu2
<seb128> stacktrace?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, 1 second, need symbols
<seb128> let's blame it on rodrigo
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> does nautilus not draw the background now? i have a black background and when i drag a window, it's contents get left all over the screen
<chrisccoulson> this is seriously weird
<mterry> seb128, jbicha: so are you guys saying that we don't need seed, but insstead gjs?
<seb128> no, I'm not saying that
<seb128> I'm saying I've not clue about js :p
<seb128> I just want gedit to build
<mterry> seb128, :
<mterry> )
<mterry> seb128, jbicha's comment does sound like gnome-js-common would be a hard sell for MIR
<mterry> seb128, if we can turn off libpeas's support for JS, that would be an easy short term fix until the JS situation is sorted
<seb128> well
<seb128> mterry, gnome-js-common is just a bunch of .js
<seb128> it's no library or anything
<mterry> ah
<seb128> it's a .pc and some .js
<chrisccoulson> wth, gnome-settings-daemon is just exitting, but it's crashing on exit
<seb128> is a g-s-d already running?
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, oh, backtrace please, yeah :)
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, exiting? see .xsession-errors
<mterry> seb128, has a MIR been filed yet?
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, oh, it's exitting because one is already running
<chrisccoulson> but the one that is running doesn't seem to be working very well
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, is this on a virtual machine?
<seb128> mterry, not sure, I ask on the bug if jbicha can do one
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, no, on my laptop
<seb128> jbicha, do you plan to write the gnome-js-common mir?
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, hmm, so what is not running well?
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, no theme (for anything), and no background being the main things
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, no theme is because you need gnome-themes-standard and change the theme in gsettings (or use gnome-tweak-tool from the ppa)
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, is the same true for the background?
<rodrigo_> no background is bad
<jbicha> seb128: mterry I'm going to submit a bug against seed recommending they depend on gjs, since seed is the only thing
<jbicha> depending on gnome-js-common, we won't even need gnome-js-common in the archives at all
<seb128> jbicha, would gjs work? the gnome-js-common description suggest it ships what is common to gjs and seed
<seb128> so likely none of those would should ship what is in the common et?
<mterry> seb128, btw, disabling seed in libpeas is as simple as a configure flag.  Not sure what that would break though
<seb128> mterry, let's do that for now so things can build maybe?
<seb128> we don't care much about libpeas js for now since nothing use it
<mterry> seb128, sure.  I can make that change
<jbicha> seb128: that's an old description, gjs includes what gnome-js-common provided
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, what does 'gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.background draw-background' show?
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, it's true
<chrisccoulson> i'm just playing around with it atm
<jbicha> I think the vinagre chat status plugin depends on seed js, but the plugin is broken anyway :-)
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, and gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.background  picture-uri?
<jbicha> it's definitely not an important plugin
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, oh, that's the issue
<chrisccoulson> it's not set to anything ;)
<chrisccoulson> i forgot about that
<chrisccoulson> i've been playing around with picture-filename, because that's what it used to be
<rodrigo_> yes, but the gsettings schema should have /usr/share/themes/Adwaita/backgrounds/stripes.jpg as default
<rodrigo_> so, something's wrong there
<rodrigo_> you have the latest gsettings-desktop-schemas, right?
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, i just set my background from firefox, and it works now ;)
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, ok :)
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, yeah, i have that installed
<rodrigo_> hmm, but how does firefox set the background? via gconf?
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, oh, the issue is actually that i don't have the default background installed
<bcurtiswx> Hi all
<chrisccoulson> yes, firefox 6.0 uses gsettings
<chrisccoulson> i was using dconf-editor and looking in totally the wrong place for the settings
<chrisccoulson> so i got confused
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, ah, ok
<chrisccoulson> it's good to know that my gsettings code in firefox works though
<chrisccoulson> :)
<kenvandine> seb128, gtk3-engines-unico is in source NEW
<kenvandine> seb128, bzr branch is lp:~ken-vandine/unico/gtk3-engines-unico for now, until the source package exists
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, reviewing it
<kenvandine> thx
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine: Still no luck from yesterday. :(
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, :/
<bcurtiswx> Anyone know if there
<bcurtiswx> ...
<kenvandine> ?
<seb128> jbicha, so gnome-js-common is deprecated?
<bcurtiswx> Have been any changes to deb_dh_makeshlibs_args_ since natty?
<pitti> didrocks: is it currently even possible to customize the apps in the home dash?
<didrocks> pitti: it takes the default emailer, browser, music player
<didrocks> pitti: so if you change them by the relevant gconf key, yeah
<seb128> bcurtiswx, shouldn't why?
<pitti> didrocks: ah, but you can't add/remove stuff there?
<didrocks> pitti: no, you can't
<pitti> didrocks: thanks for confirming
<didrocks> yw :)
<bcurtiswx> seb128: In my rebase of seahorse there's a build fail at the end. Lemme rebuild and paste bin the error. It'll be a few mins
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine: Do you still have that paste bin link?
<kenvandine> i don't
<seb128> cyphermox, didrocks: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650150
<ubot2> Gnome bug 650150 in general "FTBFS because vinagre uses both gettext and intltool" [Major,New]
<seb128> the evo build issue is likely the same one, don't run intltoolize from the rules, drop the gettext snippet from configure
<rodrigo_> seb128, seems pitti is out, so can you please have a look at adding evince to the ubuntu-desktop packageset? My upload was rejected because of lack of permissions
<pitti> oh, I am?
<rodrigo_> pitti, oh, sorry, since you didn't answer, I thought you were away :)
<rodrigo_> sorry :)
<pitti> rodrigo_: ah, sorry, missed that; I was out for a bit for some garden work
<rodrigo_> but yes, now I see you were not :)
<pitti> rodrigo_: done
<seb128> rodrigo_, you should rather ask cjwatson than pitti
<rodrigo_> pitti, thanks
<seb128> oh
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> cjwatson, sorry for the highlight, I didn't know pitti had access to the sets as well
<seb128> pitti, thanks ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: read both bug reports, thanks for the head's up!
<seb128> didrocks, yw
<seb128> someone should open an evo bug upstream also to get the configure just use intltool
<pedro_> fyi: if you see a bunch of bug emails is me pinging old reports, so just delete those
<seb128> pedro_, don't worry that's what we usually do with emails coming from you ;-)
<pedro_> rodrigo_, neat that you're finally running for the foundation board!
 * rodrigo_ adds pedro_ to list of spammers
<seb128> joke aside we are used to you doing cleaning waves
<rodrigo_> pedro_, heh, not sure, already involved in some discussions, and haven't been elected yet :D
<pedro_> did somebody talked to me? I have seb128 blocked
<cdbs> didrocks: Hey , when is the 3.8.14 SRU due?
<seb128> pedro_, ;-)
 * pedro_ hugs seb128
<seb128> pedro_, hug ;*)
<didrocks> cdbs: next tuesday, as mentionned in the latest desktop team meeting :) (not all bugs will be fixed though)
<pedro_> rodrigo_, that's the idea of these weeks, lot of questions to the candidates :-)
<pedro_> rodrigo_, we have just 3 though
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you send the evince gold patch to upstream?
<seb128> the gir one as well?
<cjwatson> pitti: how did you do it - just via lp?
<cdbs> didrocks: Could I get https://code.launchpad.net/~bilalakhtar/unity/fix-unity-crash-on-hidden-quicklistitem/+merge/61067 in for it?
<cjwatson> edit_acl.py?
<pitti> cjwatson: edit_acl.py, as usual
<cjwatson> pitti: that won't stick
<pitti> that's how we manage the other package sets like the recently added virtualization one as well, though? or the mono one?
<cjwatson> seb128 was right to ask me, unfortunately the branch containing the permanent exceptions to seed-based packageset rules is not in a state where multiple people can edit it
<cjwatson> pitti: it works for non-seed-based ones
<didrocks> cdbs: do we have an application triggering the crash?
<cjwatson> for exceptions to seed-based ones, you need to ask me
<pitti> ah, ok; thanks for clarifying
<cjwatson> otherwise my next push will revert your change
<bcurtiswx> My error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/610123/
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, aren't my old gconf settings for theme / fonts etc meant to be migrated to gsettings? or did that not happen because i was using default settings for everything?
<cdbs> didrocks: hmm, no, but it would be a boon for prospective app developers
<jbicha> seb128: I don't know if it's deprecated, I suppose I'll find out https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650592
<ubot2> Gnome bug 650592 in libseed "Should depend on gjs instead of gnome-js-common" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> jbicha, thanks ;-)
<cdbs> didrocks: We expect developers to churn out tons of app utilizing libunity, and we expect them to be using Natty for it
<didrocks> cdbs: the patch seems small enough to work. Can you follow the SRU process in the bug report please? (we need a test case, with crasher)
<cdbs> didrocks: okay
<didrocks> cdbs: please, file the SRU process so that it can be included
<cdbs> didrocks: I'll write up a Vala script which makes this crash
<cjwatson> rodrigo_,seb128: done persistently now
<cdbs> didrocks: and then will add a TEST CASE. In the meantime you can merge
<didrocks> cdbs: also, I think that "integrating unity with the platform" spec is ready (I didn't see you touching the spec), should I push it as "waiting for approval"?
<seb128> cjwatson, thanks!
<didrocks> cdbs: well, I prefer the dx team to review patches
<pitti> dpm: right, I already renamed the wiki page
<didrocks> so, wait on them to merge :)
<cdbs> didrocks: I didn't get time to check it out well, will poke you tomorrow after it passes my check
<didrocks> cdbs: I'm off tomorrow FYI
<cdbs> didrocks: :( Monday then
<didrocks> right
<cdbs> didrocks: Could you target bug #759174 to 3.8.14, please?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 759174 in unity "Unity crashes when dynamic quicklist dbusmenu contains a hidden menuitem." [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759174
<cdbs> that would make DX review it well
<didrocks> cdbs: it's already done for 3 minutes :)
 * cdbs refreshes
<cdbs> thanks didrocks
<didrocks> yw, thanks to you cdbs!
<rodrigo_> cjwatson, thanks
<cyphermox> seb128, Re gettext, thx
<seb128> cyphermox, yw
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, reviewing g-c-c
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, thanks!
<seb128> rodrigo_, you added work items for the ubuntu system settings ones right?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, iirc, let me double check
<seb128> rodrigo_, you can drop the 52_button_layout thing since that's deprecated
<seb128> same for 96_hide_accessible I guess
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> 97_subpixel_hinting is not in the source so you should probably drop it from the series rather than comment it
<rodrigo_> yes, work items for system settings added
<seb128> is that something that should maybe be noted on etherpad to see if that's still needed?
<didrocks> gnome-session will really really not be a joy to rebase :/
<rodrigo_> didrocks, :(
<didrocks> rodrigo_:  * Merge from Debian package -> that didn't tell me what's the remaining diff is though :/
<rodrigo_> seb128, what? those 2 patches I just removed?
<didrocks> I'm pondering restarting from scratch for rebasing TBHâ¦ :/
<rodrigo_> didrocks, from the PPA? I think ricotz just got the debian version and added some of our patches
<didrocks> rodrigo_: I'm talking about: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/gnome-session/ubuntu/revision/142
<seb128> rodrigo_, what? I'm saying you can probably drop 52_ and 96_ from the source they don't apply to the new ui
<didrocks> every version have a few lines of changelog with a lot of file changes
<seb128> rodrigo_, 97_ should maybe be listed in the etherpad as something we should investigate what it was for and if that's still needed to bring back somewhere in some way
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes, sorry, that was me testing and pushing stuff
<didrocks> rodrigo_: yeah, and there are a lot of commits like that. We end up with a 6184 lines of diff from debian
<rodrigo_> seb128, etherpad, or the blueprint better?
<didrocks> let me try to see what I can save
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes, I think you should just rebase ubuntu-desktop branch with debian's, and then look at any patch that's oin the ppa
<seb128> rodrigo_, either work, that one seems rather a note that a work item but your call
<didrocks> rodrigo_: are you aware of some patches from the ppa that would be nice to get?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes, the ones for the unity session
<didrocks> rodrigo_: something you changed there? didn't see that one
<rodrigo_> didrocks, jbicha iirc did
<seb128> rodrigo_, you probably want g-c-c to use dh-autoreconf, configure needs an update for the nm disabling
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<didrocks> the "  - Bypass panel autostart phase as this may slow down login" ?
<rodrigo_> hmm, no, let me check
<rodrigo_> didrocks, 02_add_ubuntu_session.patch
<didrocks> rodrigo_: this one is the one I did in natty
<didrocks> rodrigo_: I saw the changed about "- Bypass panel autostart phase as this may slow down login"
<didrocks> which is wrong
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, adding %s: dh $@ --with autoreconf, rioght?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> build-depends on dh-autoreconf as well
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ok then, you know that better than me
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, alreadfy build-depends on it
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ok, I'll rebase on debian directly and see if I can pick some patches then, thanks :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes, I thought it was interesting because it fixed the loading of the unity session for me
<rodrigo_> but if it's wrong, then ignore it
<didrocks> rodrigo_: what "fixing"? you mean, it doesn't load without it?
<didrocks> (this is what we have in natty right now)
<didrocks> and this is what gnome-shell is using
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes, didn't work before that was fixed
<rodrigo_> or maybe it was another patch?
 * rodrigo_ looks
<didrocks> is g-s loading?
<didrocks> it just "may slow down login"
<didrocks> from the description
<didrocks> not "not loading at all"
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ah, no sorry, it was the previous upload:
<rodrigo_>   * debian/gnome-session.install
<rodrigo_>     - Actually install the Ubuntu session
<seb128> rodrigo_, is gnome-icon-theme-symbolic required? if it is you need a mir for it
<seb128> rodrigo_, if it's not you should relax the depends
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ok, but that's not impact by my debian -> ubuntu merge as I'm already installing it (should have been dropped in one of your merge ;))
<rodrigo_> didrocks, although:
<rodrigo_>   * debian/patches/02_add_ubuntu_session.patch
<rodrigo_>     - Used upstream fallback session and added fallback with compiz session
<rodrigo_>       for Ubuntu Classic
<seb128> rodrigo_, same for apg
<seb128> rodrigo_, you need a mir for accountsservice as well
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, I mean: yes, removing the deps
<didrocks> rodrigo_: this is basically a rename of gnome-classic to gnome-fallback from the diff?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes
<didrocks> (and the file is not upstream, why has it been renamed?)
<rodrigo_> seb128, about the mir for accounstservice, I'll take the work item in the bp, ok?
<seb128> rodrigo_, you can drop the libappindicator build-depends also, the type break code which was using it has been deprecated
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, no need to build-depends on quilt in source v3
<rodrigo_> seb128, right
<didrocks> rodrigo_: I'm unsure about calling the session "fallback" as we used "classic" which is less pejorative
<seb128> rodrigo_, nor need to include the quilt.mk in the rules
<didrocks> but that can be in separate packages
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yeah, was not sure neither
<seb128> rodrigo_, drop 99_ also, it's deprecated with our toolchain and was coming from debian
<seb128> rodrigo_, otherwise the update looks ok
<seb128> sorry that you get reviews from didrocks and me at the same time ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, thanks!
<seb128> rodrigo_, if you fix those ping me for another review
<rodrigo_> yeah, it's a French invasion :)
<didrocks> well, it's more a plan for action in fact ;)
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, building now
<seb128> rodrigo_, I guess we need accountsservice, not sure about apg and the icon-theme-symbolic
<didrocks> seb128: so yeah, I'll tackle that on Monday, but I really think my starting point will be debian
<rodrigo_> seb128, I don't think they are needed, just nice to have, but checking
<seb128> rodrigo_, the symbolic should just fallback to normal icons if they are not there right?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes, sounds better
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, afaik
<seb128> didrocks, well I always start point with debian and diff the debian dir and re-add stuff
<seb128> didrocks, that's the best way to only get the diff you need
<didrocks> seb128: didn't you say you merged first from the ppa?
<seb128> didrocks, basically I get current ubuntu, cp debian dir over the vcs and bzr diff and tweak until I'm happy then commit
<seb128> didrocks, right, I merge the ppa, commit, then copy debian over and work on the bzr diff
<didrocks> of course, I'm doing that normally ;)
<seb128> until I'm happy with the diff
<didrocks> seb128: right, but for this one, I won't merge the ppa, that was my point :)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I've done that for a few other ones
<seb128> just diffed my merge with the ppa before uploading to see if I missed something interesting
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, the user accounts panel uses apg to generate passwords :(
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, so you need a mir for that as well
<rodrigo_> seb128, or can we suggest/recommend it?
<seb128> what will happen if it's not installed?
<seb128> users will not be able to generate passwords?
<rodrigo_> the password generation won't work, so yeah, better to have it
<seb128> well maybe lower to a recommends for now
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> so it doesn't block the upload
<seb128> what happens if accountsservice is not installed? does gnome-control-center start?
<seb128> well I guess they are not blocker for the upload
<seb128> but you should get the mir written today or tomorrow once it's uploaded
<seb128> then ping mterry for reviews
<rodrigo_> seb128, the user accounts panel doesn't work, but the control-center works
<seb128> mterry, you will likely have accountsservice and apg on your review plate soon ;-)
<mterry> seb128, love it
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, downgrade those to recommends for now in the upload then so it doesn't break CD builds if we try any
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<seb128> cyphermox, how is evo going? the new e-d-s has built and leads to have evo uninstalled
<seb128> pitti, sorry for the email spam on the cdspace spec, the launchpad ui was just spinning but apparently it did commit the changes
<seb128> pitti, so I did a few forth and back tries
<seb128> pitti, spec approved btw ;-)
<rodrigo_> hmm, the dh --with-autoreconf doesn't work:
<rodrigo_> dh debian/control --with autoreconf
<rodrigo_> dh: Unknown sequence debian/control (choose from: binary binary-arch binary-indep build build-arch build-indep clean install install-arch install-indep)
<rodrigo_> make: *** [debian/control] Error 25
<pitti> seb128: yay, thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, dh $@ --with autoreconf
<seb128> did you use it this way?
<rodrigo_> yes:
<seb128> doh
<seb128> g-c-c use cdbs
<seb128> you want to include autoreconf.mk
<rodrigo_> %:
<rodrigo_>         dh $@ --with autoreconf
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<seb128> like it was in natty
<rodrigo_> oh, alreadyincluded
<seb128> you can probably drop DEB_AUTO_UPDATE
<seb128> rodrigo_, oh right, I overlooked it, sorry about that
<rodrigo_> seb128, all the lines with DEB_AUTO_UPDATE?
<seb128> yes
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> that's for an old autoreconf way
<rodrigo_> same problem
<seb128> what same problem?
<seb128> can you copy the error?
<rodrigo_> dh: Unknown sequence debian/control (choose from: binary binary-arch binary-indep build build-arch build-indep clean install install-arch install-indep)
<rodrigo_>  make: *** [debian/control] Error 25
<seb128> rodrigo_, what command to do you run? did it work before? the autoreconf thing was already in the ppa and in your merge so it doesn't make sense it breaks now
<rodrigo_> seb128, it wasn't in debian/rules, nor in the natty package
<seb128> $ grep autoreconf gnome-control-center-2.32.1/debian/rules
<seb128> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/autoreconf.mk
<rodrigo_> seb128, I mean the debian/rules rule
<seb128> rodrigo_, lying! ;-)
<rodrigo_> hmm
<seb128> can you push your vcs?
<seb128> so I can review what's wrong
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, the nm diff doesn't apply there btw
<didrocks> pitti: reading the feedback in desktop-o-cd-localization, anyway, unity-2d/unity should use the same system for customization in oneiric (shared code), so I think there is no point in making them separate
<pitti> didrocks: right, but right now they don't, so I just mentioned that no matter what, the defaults-builder thing will DTRT
<didrocks> pitti: ok, anyway, it's a question of either gsettings or gconf default override anyway
<rodrigo_> seb128, pushed to ~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-control-center/ubuntu
<rodrigo_> seb128, doesn't apply? it did last time I built it, so checking
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you try to build g-c-c before pushing? ;-) (not the recent push you did but the previous one)
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<rodrigo_> hmm, but now it's failing with the gettext thing
<seb128> rodrigo_, right, similar to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650150, you need to drop the gettext rules
<rodrigo_> ugh, doesn't apply indeed
<ubot2> Gnome bug 650150 in general "FTBFS because vinagre uses both gettext and intltool" [Major,New]
<seb128> rodrigo_, you let the "dh $@ --with autoreconf" in the rules
<seb128> rodrigo_, that doesn't work with cdbs, the include is enough
<seb128> rodrigo_, that's what create your Unknown sequence error
<rodrigo_> yes, removed it already
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so you need to get the nm diff to apply and to fix the intltool,gettext conflict in the configure
<rodrigo_> seb128, fixing the patch now, so will ping you when it's up for a review
<seb128> then you should be good ;-)
<rodrigo_> yes :)
<rodrigo_> not sure why the patch doesn't apply, I'm 99% sure I built it
<rodrigo_> but maybe I didn't, not sure
<seb128> rodrigo_, the symbolics icons are used in quite some place, it should maybe stay as a recommends or suggests
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you ever send https://launchpad.net/bugs/630753 to upstream, do you know if it's still needed?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 630753 in totem "gnome-screensaver activates while watching a movie in totem" [Low,Fix released]
<seb128> pitti, I think you followed you the debian pygobject, dh_python2 transition thing, do you plan to handle it in ubuntu?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i sent my patch upstream ages ago, but i think it was fixed with a different patch in the end after sitting in bugzilla for months
<chrisccoulson> i think it was that bug anyway
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so we can drop the patch?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - in the new version? probably
<seb128> yes
<pitti> seb128: for the pygobject/gtk-2.0 stack? that should come through merges
<pitti> seb128: bigon and I have discussed it quite a bit, and pygobject has a backwards compat hack until everything is ported from pysupport
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, thanks, let's drop it and see how it goes
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, it was fixed upstream
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks, I guess the question was "do we need to be careful, do they need to transition at once", seems not since there is a backwards compat, thanks!
<pitti> seb128: right, I tried hard to avoid that, and so far it seems to work
<pitti> good night everyone!
<seb128> 'night
<pitti> ah, no TB in 45 minutes
<seb128> time for sport and dinner there
<pitti> so, dinner time
 * didrocks waves good egning
<didrocks> evening*
<didrocks> even :)
<didrocks> will be off tomorrow see you on Monday!
<pitti> rodrigo_: still here?
<pitti> rodrigo_: unping, already resolved itself
<cyphermox> is somebody already looking at the tomboy schema issue>
<pitti> good night everyone
<cyphermox> good night pitti
<ricotz> cyphermox, hello
<ricotz> cyphermox, is it possible that you changed the tarballs of evolution and e-d-s?
<cyphermox> ricotz: doubtful, they were redownloaded by didrocks using uscan
<cyphermox> ricotz: care to explain the issue you're seeing?
<ricotz> they are different to debians
<mterry> cyphermox, not that I know of...  let me see scrollback
<mterry> cyphermox, hm, no.  All I know is that the schema file that gets installed is empty.  But the schema.in file in source isn't
<cyphermox> mterry yeah, I know why :)
<mterry> cyphermox, oh?
<cyphermox> cdbs doesn't have strip-schema.pl anymore, so it just writes an empty file in debian/rules when called by tomboy
<cyphermox> I *think* it's just been forgotten by pitti, as I can't see it in the last merge
<ricotz> cyphermox, the checksum is different to http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/evolution/3.0/evolution-3.0.0.sha256sum
<cyphermox> but it could have been on purpose
<cyphermox> ricotz: I can confirm the checksum is different, but I can't tell you why, because I don't know. note that I didn't upload this myself, it was sponsored by didrocks. I have no clue how he got the tarball
<cyphermox> i'm checking if it's the result of bzr bd / running get-orig-source that does that, but it's the best idea I have to offer ;)
<ricotz> cyphermox, alright ;), it just made me suspicious, because this shouldnt happen
<cyphermox> right, it shouldn't, but I have no idea why it did
<cyphermox> I never shipped didrocks my tarballs, only ever the branch with just debian/
<ricotz> nevermind, with 3.0.1 this can be fixed soon
<ricotz> which is already available ;)
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> we'll get started on that shortly
<ricotz> ok :), have a good night
 * mdeslaur lifts eyebrow at tarball mismatch
<cyphermox> mdeslaur: I'm trying to figure out why that is
<cyphermox> mterry, can you look at the cdbs/strip-schema.pl stuff?
<cyphermox> do you want a merge for it?
<mterry> cyphermox, sure
<mterry> cyphermox, we're unsure if strip-schema.pl should be gone or not, right?
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> it was a diff we had with Debian, it could have been forgotten
<cyphermox> (or dropped on purpose)
<mterry> pitti, ping?
<mterry> Ah...  The strip-schema.pl drop seems to be part of the langpack.mk -> dh-translations transition.  Looking further
<cyphermox> oh ok
<cyphermox> so there is probably something to be changed in tomboy
<mterry> Yeah
<cyphermox> mterry: should I just drop the call to strip-schema.pl?
<mterry> cyphermox, I'm looking at it, but basically yes.  Also probably the desktop file bit.
<cyphermox> looking at it as in doing the change?
<mterry> cyphermox, right
<cyphermox> ok
<dobey> kenvandine: can i *see* the vala/gtk3 gwibber widget for twit display somewhere in a PNG or something?
<kenvandine> http://ubuntuone.com/p/uJw/
<kenvandine> that is what it looks like right now
<kenvandine> and it kind of works :)
<dobey> hmm. a bit bland. though the gtk+ theme works it seems. i can't even get gtk+3 to use the theme right :(
<dobey> but cool
<kenvandine> this is the unico theme engine
<kenvandine> and a community gtk3 that uses it
<kenvandine> unico will be our default
<kenvandine> dobey,  json.loads(self.Messages("all", "all", 0, "0", "0", "time", "DESC", 2000))
<kenvandine> whoops
<kenvandine> dobey, http://ubuntuone.com/p/uB4/
<kenvandine> that is what we are trying to make it look like
<dobey> oh
<mterry> cyphermox, ok, fix uploaded
<cyphermox> mterry: cool
<davidcalle> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> hey davidcalle
<davidcalle> kenvandine, is there a theme working with unico?
<kenvandine> nothing packaged yet
<davidcalle> Ok
<kenvandine> and no eta yet :/
<davidcalle> Do you have a branch?
<kenvandine> davidcalle,  https://code.launchpad.net/~lucazade/+junk/ambiance-gtk3
<davidcalle> kenvandine, ty :)
<kenvandine> davidcalle, np
<bigon> pitti: the pkg involved into the pygobject to dh_python2 changes miss some breaks
<bigon> if all the pkg are not changed to dh_python2 this will breaks horibly
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-20
<basso> a friend of mine had massive problems with gnome 3.0 on his ati 5650
<basso> :(
<RAOF> basso: On natty, or oneieric?
<basso> RAOF: it was natty using the gnome 3 ppa
<basso> RAOF: we tried getting new drivers, and turning off alot of options, but we got like a.. blocky tear or that appared everytime gnome shell did something, like using activites, but the artifacts werent there when shell is not used (just using a progam)
<RAOF> basso: Well, that's not been well-tested on natty, obviously.  We might be missing some mesa patches that fix those problems.  I don't think Unity runs into those issues.
<basso> RAOF: no, unity worked quite fine on his computer :)
<basso> Atleast its working quite well with nvidia on natty :D
<RAOF> I'd expect it to work significantly better in oneiric (once that's settled down, of course) - not only will we have a newer mesa, but we'll also have actual testing :)
<chrisccoulson> having actual testing might be beneficial :)
<RAOF> At least we'll know when it's borken!
<bryce> well, maybe ;-)
<RAOF> We'll have a fighting chance!
<basso> ^^
<bryce> RAOF, have you looked at all at mesa >7.10.2?
<RAOF> Not seriously yet.
<bryce> RAOF, I was just talking with keithp.  It sounds like there's fixes in >7.10.2 we may want for natty, you should give it a look
<RAOF> Oh, right.  You were referring to the stable branch rather than 7.11.  I'll take a butchers.
<bryce> it might be far too crazy, but an sru of 7.10.3 might be worth considering... depends on how much performance work is in there
<RAOF> Yeah.
<RAOF> It's a pity that the point releases aren't exclusively bugfixes.
<bryce> actually, I talked with him about that exact issue
 * RAOF pulls mesa while emacs is starting up.
<bryce> he said if we are open to shipping it post-release it gives him extra ammo to argue for keeping the point updates to fixes-only
<bryce> I explained a bit about the ubuntu sru policies for doing point release updates, he and eric seemed especially keen on that
<RAOF> If it was fixes-only we could concievably have an SRU policy like GNOME.
<bryce> right
<RAOF> That would be excellent.
<bryce> yup
<RAOF> (Particularly since we could reasonably run piglit on a bunch of testing hardware as the test-suite)
<RAOF> I didn't see how that âmake the testing hardware lab more availableâ UDS session went, but from browsing the etherpad it sounds like we could concievably get access to spawn piglit on each gpu in there.
<bryce> yeah that session got a bit bogged down
<RAOF> That, plus a bugfix-only policy, would make aggressive point release SRUs pretty palatable.
<bryce> yep
<RAOF> Hey, emacs!  Why you crashin'?
<bryce> I mentioned to intel what the cert team was doing.  I'd love to be able to get that list of hardware that they're testing to Intel, so they have the opportunity to obtain the hardware too if they want
<RAOF> I find it strange that the hw cert lab might have more Intel hardware available for the Intel developers than, you know, /Intel/
<RAOF> :)
<bryce> yeah
<lifeless> RAOF: bryce: hi
<lifeless> two of my favourite victims^Wpeople
<bryce> lifeless, hi
<RAOF> Oh, oh!  Sounds like a bug report in progress.
<RAOF> Quick!  To the coffee machine!
<lifeless> I'm using natty classic mode w/o effects
<bryce> unless he's here to tell us about fixing some of our launchpad woes?
<lifeless> and I'm getting remains-of-windows-left-behind
<lifeless> bryce: thats scheduled for Monday
<bryce> lifeless, driver?
<lifeless> so a program closes and its border is left behind on my xterm
<lifeless> x201s so intel
<bryce> sounds familiar
<RAOF> It sounds like a familiar damage(?) problem?
<RAOF> Not that I could point to any bug or anything useful like that.
<bryce> 777447 775936 782855 768587 622068
<bryce> none of those are good matches, but those are the corruption bugs I know of
<bryce> fwiw, I'm running natty classic / no effects on two intel systems and don't see that, but they're dells.
<RAOF> bryce: You've got to remember, lifeless has an arrandale :/
<bryce> yeah arrandale's pretty fubar
<lifeless> should I ubuntu-bug it up ? if so what package
<bryce> 745112 and 754799 are the arrandale bugs on my list to look at
<RAOF> As always, it's âubuntu-bug xorgâ :).  However, my guess is that the bug's in xserver-xorg-video-intel.
<bryce> lifeless, of course, and 'ubuntu-bug xorg'
<bryce> just remember xorg.  the bot will move it
<bryce> and in the dialog that pops up, say, "yes, someone told me to report it" or whatever
<lifeless> :P
<jbicha> cyphermox: I hadn't heard of contributing developer before, is that new?
<bryce> RAOF, why is it that everyone *except* us has arrandale?  seems that's where all the fun bugs live.  :-/
<RAOF> bryce: We mentioned this at UDS.  Have you done anything about asking for an arrandale system? (I know I haven't)
<bryce> yeah I mentioned it to Rick.  I also asked Keith (well, his manager) to put me on the list for SDP's
<bryce> honestly though I got so many WI's from UDS not sure how much HW testing I have the capacity for doing.
<jbicha> I just thought there were the 3 levels: core, motu, & ppu, I guess I'll need to get an application together
<RAOF> bryce: Well, that's what the HW cert labs *should* be for, right? :)
<cyphermox> jbicha: not new at all, but it effectively doesn't give you any upload, it's recognizing your contributions at the development level with Ubuntu membership
<jbicha> oh, no extra prileges then
<cyphermox> well, except for ubuntu membershio
<lifeless> RAOF: whats the 'sensitive info' in the gdm logs ?
<RAOF> lifeless: I don't actually know; it's concievable that gdm could leak something in to them and not care too much, as they're not world-readable.
<lifeless> leaks username
<lifeless> rest looks ok
<lifeless> RAOF: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/785497
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 785497 in xorg "remnants of window getting left behind when apps quit" [Undecided,New]
<RAOF> lifeless: Ta.
<lifeless> I *think* it tends to be the borders
<lifeless> IMBW so I haven't said that in the report
<lifeless> RAOF: bryce: ask for an x201s w/8gb and an ssd as a test machine
<lifeless> RAOF: bryce: they rock :)
<RAOF> Hm.  There's no safe way to trigger the reconfiguration of package $FOO from $BAR's postinst, is there.
<lifeless> RAOF: aaahhhhhhh no
<RAOF> lifeless: Well, there kinda is; $FOO could have a trigger, which $BAR frobs.  That's no help when $FOO doesn't have a trigger, though :)
<RAOF> (That doesn't help me, though, where $FOO doesn't have a trigger and doesn't have any good reason to grow one).
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> cyphermox: strip-schema.pl is obsolete in cdbs, it's now been done by dh_translations
<pitti> gnome.mk now calls that
<pitti> cyphermox: uh, strip-schema.pl was meant to be an internal implementation detail -- there are packages calling that directly?
<pitti> bigon: uh, that's what the backwards compat pygtk.pth file was supposed to avoid?
<bryce> pitti, http://www.resplect.com/?q=node/30
<RAOF> I'm sure fedora will be interested to learn that radeon cards use software rendering to draw gnome-shell on their livecd :)
<pitti> I was quite surprised by that as well
<pitti> I don't quite believe that
<pitti> but the memory usage difference is quite significant indeed
<pitti> it pretty much seems to be a constant 200 MB overhead, though
<pitti> then again, unity actually allows you to find and use your files (*shocking*), which g-s very much doesn't
<pitti> so of course all that zeitgeist magic comes with a price
<RAOF> I *think* something leaks over time, too.
<pitti> for sure
<pitti> glib/GNOME programs are notorious leakers, as long as people keep using C
<pitti> if only computers could keep track of references to an object themselves ... oh, a man can dream..
<RAOF> It's surprisingly easy to leak in managed environments, too.
<jbicha> GS has some sort of file searching capability built in & their app searching is better than Unity's atm
<RAOF> I'll be interested to test GS then; I'm not entirely sure how I'd improve Unity's app search.
<RAOF> (As opposed to app *browsing* which is currently pretty terrible)
<pitti> I tried the final fedora based live CD, and g-s doesn't even have a way to open nautilus, much less links to your home dir or XDG files
<pitti> RAOF: just download the live CD; it comes with a script to put it on an USB stick, so it's very easy to test
<pitti> RAOF: http://www.gnome3.org/tryit.html
<pitti> and it's quite an enjoyable exercise as well :)
<RAOF> I don't think using a livecd is a particularly good test; I'd probably be significantly less satisfied with Unity if I'd just tried as a livecd.
<pitti> I really like the shell integration of network-manager
<RAOF> Although I guess for quick impressions it can work.
<pitti> it's both informative ("Ethernet: no cable", "Wireless: firmware missing"), and also doesn't show unnecessary clutter
 * RAOF downloads fedora livecd.
<jbicha> I'm running gnome-shell on Ubuntu now & I'm not sure what would have been wrong with Nautilus
<pitti> jbicha: well, it might be entirely possible that this is just an f15 design decision
<pitti> from my 10 minutes of playing, the app search is indeed quite similar, also the general concept
<jbicha> but I'm using the one from ricotz' ppa & I'm not completely sure what version it is
<pitti> so it should be pretty easy to use the other if you know one already
<pitti> jbicha: I also discussed that with some GNOME guys the other day, and file search is planned for 3.2 AFAIK
<jbicha> yes, GS & Unity are rather similar, I think the notification/system tray thing is one of the big diffs
 * pitti waves to seiflotfy :)
<pitti> *nod*
<jbicha> the version I'm using might be a dev git version
<jbicha> 3.0.1+git20110512 , maybe it's lying and is actualy a pre-3.1
<pitti> jbicha: OOI, what do you like more in gs app search?
<pitti> right now I wouldn't know how to make it better in unity, short of adding loads of extra aliases to programs
<pitti> but I can open pretty much all my favourite apps with just windows, one letter, enter
<jbicha> searching for "office" in Unity doesn't display all the LO apps and it should
<pitti> or windows+number in the launcher bar
<pitti> jbicha: ah, that might be a case for aliases, if desired
<jbicha> GS can still find results even if you don't start at the beginning of the word
<Omega> RAOF: I agree, I hope app browsing gets some love this cycle.
<pitti> jbicha: heh, fun -- searching for "libre" does :)
<jbicha> Unity used to briefly but their algorithm didn't weight things correctly & it was disabled, I think
<pitti> searching for -f still finds d-feet, I don't think that's a general limitatino
<pitti> interesting -- "fox" doesn't find firefox either
<pitti> there's certainly some cutoff point here
<pitti> if I search for "f" I want apps starting with f, not apps having an f anywhere
<RAOF> Yeah, I think it splits on words - which is why -f works, because â-â is a word-splitter.
<jbicha> and I hate the category switcher in 11.04, the one in 10.10 was better or GS's implementation works
<pitti> but for more than say 3 letters it should do a full string match
<pitti> jbicha: full ack on that; it was brought up at the design session, should get a lot better indeed
<pitti> bbl
<jbicha> but I expect the dash will be better in 11.10
<pitti> I'm actually looking forward to the real interesting stuff, like searching through music/photo tags
<pitti> windows + "floyd wall" + enter -> default music player starts playing the album
<RAOF> Just like Do! :)
<Omega> I Like GS's workspace management.
<Omega> For example, we could add an X to the corners of the windows in scale mode.
<RAOF> I'm quite comfortable with middle-click to close in scale, but a friendly âcloseâ button would indeed be more friendly.
<Omega> I didn't know you could close by middle clicking at first, I found out after trying to switch to my browser a few times only to find it asking me if I want to close the window.
 * RAOF hugs his schroots.  Easy rollback for upgrade testing!
<xclaesse> argh, scrolling the email folders list in evolution3 is really slow
<xclaesse> clearly a gtk3 regression here :/
<xclaesse> is that known?
<RAOF> Evolution's installable on oneiric? :)
<xclaesse> using natty gnome3 ppa
<xclaesse> evolution just got uploaded
<rodrigo_> morning
<jasoncwarner1> RAOF: I think cyphermox did that...was working on it during UDS....
<RAOF> Well, upgrading one of my systems to oneiric this morning made evolution go away :).  I guess it could have been temporary.
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<rodrigo_> hi chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi rodrigo_, how are you?
<RAOF> Hey there chrisccoulson!
<jasoncwarner1> RAOF: I don't think I'll be upgrading for just a bit yet...I mean, maybe the wife's machine just because
<chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner1 - you're not running oneiric yet? ;)
<chrisccoulson> hi RAOF, how are you?
<lool> pitti: did you see LP #785323?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 785323 in tomboy "Failed to install tomboy 1.6.1-0ubuntu1 - /usr/share/gconf/schemas/tomboy.schemas:1: parser error : Document is empty" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/785323
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: Fridayed!
<lool> I'm trying to reproduce with the pkgbinarymangler testsuite, but it takes a loooong while to run now
<lool> and it fails when one uses ecryptfs   :-)
<lool>     self.assertTrue(os.path.getsize(png_ship) < os.path.getsize(png_orig))
<seb128> hey rodrigo_ jasoncwarner1
<seb128> hey RAOF
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<jasoncwarner1> morning seb128
<RAOF> Good morning seb128
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, how are you?
<seb128> how is everybody?
<chrisccoulson> oh, unity didn't like me docking my laptop :(
<rodrigo_> hi seb128, jasoncwarner1, RAOF
<seb128> I'm fine
<chrisccoulson> i've only got a small area drawn in the bottom left corner of my primary monitor ;)
<chrisccoulson> brb
<rodrigo_> is anyone using the new evolution?
<seb128> got back a background and a theme for gtk3 application in oneiric after fiddling a bit around
<rodrigo_> that is, is it safe to use it?
<seb128> rodrigo_, not yet, should we stay away from it?
<RAOF> It's installable now?
<rodrigo_> seb128, I hope not, I really want to upgrade to test the improvements that have been made
<rodrigo_> RAOF, seems so, let me see
<seb128> rodrigo_, do it, we will fix it if it's broken
<rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, let me finish reading my mail just in case :)
<rodrigo_> RAOF, it is installable, yes, it just removes all the 2.32 libe* packages
<RAOF> Hm.  amd64's evolution still requires e-d-s < 2.33.0 here.
<pitti> lool: hm, I use ecrytpfs as well, and it does succeed here
<pitti> lool: seems this was fallout from directly using the old strip-schemas.pl from cdbs?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: quite fine, thanks!
 * pitti cut a small tree yesterday and built yet another bookshelf, making progress :)
<seb128> pitti, yeah, strip-schemas.pl was used from the source since the package is not using cdbs and there was no dh equivalent
<lool> pitti: well with ecryptfs /home/lool, test/run failed with this png file check
<lool> ISTR the dpkg testsuite also failed
<lool> pitti: This is ecryptfs on top of ext4 BTW
<pitti> lool: weird; exactly the same for me here, ecryptfs ~ on top of ext4
 * pitti runs it again right now on latest oneiric just to b sure
<lool> I'm trying again too, might have been a race that I only got once
<lool> I also get warnings related to file descriptors which remained open
<lool> Before I lose it, http://paste.ubuntu.com/610495/ is the output I got on the first failure
<lool> seb128: oy
<lool> seb128: tomboy's build triggers many Unknown option: with
<seb128> lut lool, ca va ?
<lool> seb128: bien et toi?  :-)
<seb128> lool, oui ca va ;-)
<lool> seb128: I think it's a matter of passing --with foo instead of --with=foo
<seb128> lool, "known issue" I think and it's coming from Debian
<lool> Ok
<seb128> check with Laney
<seb128> he's the maintainer
<pitti> lool: hm, still runs fine here
<RAOF> Yes, it's coming from Debian.
<pitti> lool: the open fds are a rather silly new python 3 feature
<RAOF> It's rather annoying; it comes from including cli.make.
<lool> pitti: failed again here, with a fresh apt-get source; test/run
<pitti> you can safely ignore them
<seb128> lool, what do you try to do on tomboy?
<lool> seb128: extract the .schema which breaks with dh-translations
<pitti> lool: does "debclean" succeed, or does it complain about missing buil deps?
<pitti> lool: i. e. do you actually have optipng and advcomp installed?
<seb128> lool, is it still broken with mterry's upload?
<lool> seb128: this is with 1.6.1-0ubuntu1; I guess it might not be the newest as publisher is down
<seb128> lool, no, mterry fixed it in 0ubuntu2
<lool> pitti: oh gosh, indeed, a missing bdep; sorry about that  :-(
 * pitti hugs lool
<lool> pitti: the failure looked to ecryptfsish that I blamed it immediately
<pitti> lool: the failure basically just means "it didn't reduce the .png"
<pitti> lool: ecryptfs shouldn't affect (visible) file sizes -- did you see such a case somewhere else?
<lool> pitti: Some months ago, the dpkg testsuite wouldn't pass if I'd build it under my home
<lool> much longer before that debootstrap wouldn't work in my home, but that one was fixed in the kernel
<lool> this was a runtime dpkg check
<pitti> jasoncwarner1, seb128, kenvandine, chrisccoulson: FYI, I only do 3/4 of a day today, and leave at 11:30 UTC (have some bureaucracy appointments in the afternoon); I'll do some work tomorrow morning, so if you want me to work on versions.html bits, please tell me
<seb128> pitti, work on version is always welcome ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i might do some work from that today as well :)
<pitti> seb128: working on udev now, will grab pygtk and pygobject as well, ok?
<seb128> pitti, do you want some guidance on what to do?
<chrisccoulson> it feels like it's been ages since i did some desktop work!
<seb128> pitti, excellent
<seb128> chrisccoulson, welcome back! ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<pitti> seb128: after that, some guidance would be appreciated, yes; but above should keep me busy for a while right now
<bigon> 06:23 < pitti> bigon: uh, that's what the backwards compat pygtk.pth file was supposed to avoid? << well gnome-python-{,desktop,extras} are not all using dh_python2 it will breaks
<seb128> pitti, well consider "1- just pick anything you like, 2- python*, 3- things in light orange (sync in debian but both outdated)"
<pitti> bigon: what breaks in particualar?
<seb128> pitti, orange -> totem-pl-parser libsoup libgnome-keyring gnome-keyring libgail-gnome consolekit
<pitti> seb128: ah, the "fix in debian" bits
<seb128> pitti, we have few people who can do updates in debian so those are less likely to get done, we could also wait on the #debian-gnome guys to do them though
<seb128> pitti, but otherwise we are mostly through the first round, a group of updates will be blocked until we get the indicator stack and unity on gtk3
<pitti> seb128: don't we also need to lift the remaining gnome-* bits to 3.0? -panel, -menus, etc.?
<seb128> pitti, we can't
<seb128> pitti, gnome-panel needs to the on the same gtk version than the applet, which means same version of gtk for the indicator, which means same for unity
<pitti> ah, I see
<seb128> gnome-menus goes with gnome-panel
<seb128> pitti, well I guess otherwise you can start tackling gnome-icon-theme
<lool> Cool, the dpkg testsuite passes under ecryptfs now
<seb128> since you wanted to look at cleaning it
<lool> and on tomboy, it is likely that mterry's upload fixes it; I ran dh-translations by hand, and it didn't empty the .schema
<seb128> lool, ;-)
<lool> I shouldn't be looking into issues when latest packages have not been published  :-)
<seb128> lool, you should start by looking at the launchpad package page before starting debugging rather ;-)
<lool> seb128: I did, but I failed to notice that I was installing an old version
<lool> I even reassigned some dups to the bug  :)
<rodrigo_> ok, evolution 3.0 seems to work ok
<pitti> eagerly waiting for the mirrors to mirror again, to try it
<rodrigo_> seems as slow to start as before, but it feels a bit quicker
<rodrigo_> well, it had to migrate all mail to the new format, Maildir, so will need to restart it to see if it's indeed slow to start
<rodrigo_> indeed, expunging is fast now!
<Laney> it's because cli.make sets DH_OPTIONS
<Laney> possibly compat 8 fixes that?
<bigon> pitti: for example http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=625657 could happends
<ubot2> Debian bug 625657 in python-gnome2 "AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'PARAM_APP_DATADIR'" [Grave,Open]
<pitti> bigon: hm, so /usr/lib/python2.[67]/dist-packages/gtk-2.0-pysupport-compat.pth seems to fail in some cases :/
<pitti> I tried with with a few modules which install stuff in /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/gtk-2.0/, and it worked for them
<pitti> but it was a hack from day one, so moving everything over and adjusting dependencies indeed sounds like the better long-term solution
<bigon> in the case of the bug, some of the gnome-python where switched to dh_python2 the other where not
<bigon> pitti: well this will requires to add Breaks on a lot of packages for lot of packages
<pitti> bigon: so many? I thought there were only a magnitude of 10 which install stuff into /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.*/gtk-2.0/
<bigon> yes but they have to breaks each others
<pitti> pygobject has to break them, and the dh_python2 converted packages depend on >= converted pygobject, yes
<bigon> well not only
<pitti> that's why I added that .pth file to avoid this mess
<bigon> all the pkg generated by gnome-python gnome-python-extras and gnome-python-desktop also have to breaks each other
<bigon> if one of them is not using dh_python2 it breaks the import for all
<bigon> IIRC
<pitti> oh, han gon
<bigon> s/all/some
<pitti> bigon: was the problem that the reporter installed a newer python-gnome-something with dh_python2, didn't yet upgrade to a newer pygobject with dh_python2?
<bigon> no
<bigon> wait
<jbicha> I was able to build vinagre successfully with Debian's gtk-vnc so I just have to figure out what we did to break gtk-vnc
<bigon> pitti: it has python-gnome2 using dh_python2 and python-gtk2 and
<bigon> python-gconf still using pysuport
<pitti> ah, so perhaps python only considers the .pth file for the first time a namespaced module is imported, and then caches the path
<bigon> dunno
<seb128> hey jbicha
<bigon> pitti: for example I had to add a breaks between python-gtk2 and python-gtkgl
<seb128> jbicha, weird, it build fine there with the oneiric one
<jbicha> seb128: what do you mean? it didn't build fine for me as vnc support didn't work
<seb128> jbicha, well for some reason I don't get the issues you described the other day there
<jbicha> well, it failed in an oneiric PPA too
<seb128> ok, maybe it's some of the packages I didn't update yet
<pitti> seb128: so pygobject and pygtk were easy, we could sync both (done)
<seb128> pitti, \o/
 * pitti moves to consolekit, glibmm2.4, and gnome-keyring
<pitti> seb128: btw, is there much point adding a (pitti) everywhere on the pad? the colors already show the author?
<seb128> pitti, if you know who is what color which is not obvious
<seb128> not obvious if the person is not connected
<pitti> oh, the top right field only shows connected users?
<pitti> ok, keeping it then
<seb128> right
<seb128> pitti, btw not sure if "    - python-gtk2 suggests not depends on python-numpy" was still needed?
<pitti> ah blergh, that was the thing that escaped me
<seb128> debian runs dh_numpy in their rules
<seb128> will that add a depends?
<pitti> I'll re-merge that then
<seb128> pitti, well I'm not sure I didn't try to build it
<pitti> seb128: but python-numpy is in main, and we already had it
<pitti> the debian->ubuntu diff was
<pitti> -               python-numpy-dbg (>= 1:1.4.1-4~),
<pitti> +               python-numpy-dbg (>= 1:1.0.4-1~),
<seb128> pitti, it's not on the CD though and it's not trivially small
<pitti> which seemed fine to me
<seb128> pitti, well, we moved the Depends to Suggests back then but debian moved to use dh_numpy in between
<seb128> which might lead to the depends
<pitti> seb128: it doesn't source-depend on numpy, that's why it escaped me apparently
<pitti> apparently ${python:depends} drags it in
<pitti> I'll try to fix that in Debian
<seb128> well likely dh_numpy?
<seb128> it's used in the rules
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> well in theory I think numpy is used in some parts of pygtk
<seb128> but doko argued that the few users of that part of the code in the archive should have the depends
<pitti> right
<seb128> to avoid brining numpy on the CD
<seb128> rodrigo_, wb
<seb128> rodrigo_, is something blocking the g-c-c upload? did you do the accountsservice mir?
<rodrigo_> seb128, hi seb128 :-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, no, just finishing the patch rebasing and will do upload + mirs
<seb128> ok
<seb128> let me know if you need a review
<rodrigo_> ok
<jbicha> seb128: ok I think I figured out vinagre, it may have just been missing a libgvnc dependency, so merge proposed
<seb128> jbicha, great, thanks, I will review it in a bit
<davmor2> I got a funky bug in natty banshee refuses to display and is taking out compiz at the same time by the look of it
<rodrigo_> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apg/+bug/785682 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/accountsservice/+bug/785680 <- are they ok?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 785682 in apg "[MIR] apg" [Undecided,New]
<rodrigo_> seb128, pushing now my changes for a last review, if you want
<seb128> rodrigo_, not really ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you read the mir documentation?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libpeas/+bug/782958
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 782958 in libpeas "[mir] libpeas" [Low,Fix released]
<seb128> is a nice example
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> or https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seed/+bug/782972
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 782972 in seed "[mir] seed" [Low,Fix released]
<seb128> rodrigo_, but basically you need some details and specify you checked the build-depends, depends, how well the package is maintained and the security record
<rodrigo_> ok, sorry, read the wrong page it seems
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements
<seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<rodrigo_> yeah, just read the 2nd one
<seb128> rodrigo_, ^ read those, but if you take one of the bugs jbicha wrote they are nice examples
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, mind if i upload http://paste.ubuntu.com/610545/ for g-s-d?
<seb128> rodrigo_, well the first point has an url to the other page ;-) anyway just copy what jeremy did
<chrisccoulson> it stops gsettings-data-convert from crashing on every log in :)
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, does it need a schema entry, or it's already in some schema?
<davmor2> fixed made banshee fullscreen issues gone away odd though
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, no, that key is not listed in a schema anywhere (and it doesn't appear to be used anywhere in g-s-d either)
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, but then apps that access it will fail
<seb128> rodrigo_, seems you forgot to subscribe ubuntu-mir to those bugs as well, see 3. on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<seb128> rodrigo_, but maybe wait to have the bugs updated before doing that ;-)
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, are any apps accessing it? if they access it, then they will fail already (as gsettings-data-convert does)
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, was waiting to see if it's ok, will do as soon as I fix the bug description
<seb128> seems like we will need gnome-icon-theme-symbolic as well btw
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, where does it come from then?
<seb128> quite some icons are displayed as broken icons without it
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, no idea. it's just listed in gnome-settings-daemon.convert :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, right
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, ok, upload it then, I'll check upstream if we can remove it
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, thanks
<chrisccoulson> oh, it's so great to upload a package which isn't 70MB :)
<rodrigo_> :)
<pachi> hi
<pachi> I'd like to test the gnome-shell environment and have used the gnome3-team ppa, but I'm finding some problems
<pachi> I had some visual glitches and just killed the session, but now I get a clean desktop without any shell elements, just a background and a terminal window
<pachi> do you know which process may be missing?
<rodrigo_> libpolkit-gobject-1-0 is in main, right?
<pitti> rodrigo_: yes
<rodrigo_> pitti, ok, thanks
<rodrigo_> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/accountsservice/+bug/785680 <- does it look ok now?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 785680 in accountsservice "[MIR] accountsservice" [Undecided,New]
<rodrigo_> seb128, and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apg/+bug/785682
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 785682 in apg "[MIR] apg" [Undecided,New]
<chrisccoulson> b'ah, i need to apply for core-dev. i can't upload mousetweaks
<rodrigo_> seb128, and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-icon-theme-symbolic/+bug/785700
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 785700 in gnome-icon-theme-symbolic "[mir] gnome-icon-theme-symbolic" [Undecided,New]
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, can I upload now?
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey, back from lunch, let me check
<kinouchou> hello seb128
<seb128> lut kinouchou
<seb128> rodrigo_, those mir looks fine, thanks for the updates ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, let me check the g-c-c vcs before you upload
<pitti> is apg a strict dependency, or something that will be used if present?
<pitti> i. e. does it block uploading?
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<pitti> it should certainly get scrutinized by kees first
<seb128> pitti, we demoted those to recommends for now
<pitti> ah
<seb128> pitti, so they don't really block uploads
<rodrigo_> seb128, I found out apg hasn't had a release since 2003, so would that be a problem for the mir?
<seb128> it's just that the account panel will not work correctly without those
<rodrigo_> and if so, what do we use as password generator?
<pitti> rodrigo_: that's why I wonder why upstream added a dependency to it now; it seems pretty old
<seb128> rodrigo_, that's worth mentioning in the mir bug, we can get the discussion there
<rodrigo_> yeah
<seb128> rodrigo_, pitti: it seems only be used to "generate a password", not sure what that means, if that's like a "create a random password for me" or something else
<pitti> seb128: I think that's what it does, yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, to generate random passwords
<seb128> we can hide that function if needed
<rodrigo_> yes, or use a replacement
<seb128> random password generation is not a feature blocker
<rodrigo_> I guess we generate passwords in some other place already, don't we?
<seb128> not sure we do
<rodrigo_> we do for root user, right?
<pitti> FWIW, updating in debian svn directly rocks
<rodrigo_> I always have to 'sudo su && passwd' on new installations
<pitti> rodrigo_: not in ubiquity anyway
<pitti> nor in d-i
<seb128> pitti, does it? ;-) I still hate having to have a vm to build binaries :p
<pitti> perhaps g-s-t offered somethign like that
<pitti> seb128: well, chroot
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, it did afair
<rodrigo_> I'll check what it used
<chrisccoulson> is someone able to upload the patch from https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650657 for me? i can't upload that :(
<ubot2> Gnome bug 650657 in general "Key without schema in mousetweaks.convert (animate-cursor)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> pitti, well you still need to set up one and keep it updated and how do you test updates?
<pitti> seb128: I don't mean that the tools rock, but that we have to merge a lot less
<seb128> well merging is usually less work than maintaining a debian unstable update :p
<seb128> uptodate
<pitti> chroot maintenance doesn't cost much
<seb128> though I installed debian in a vm again, I spent twice longer to do the updates let's see if that pays back
<pitti> I already have chroots for ubuntu stables, and my script update them all wholesale
<seb128> pitti, well then how do you test that the updates work? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I can run X stuff from chroots
<seb128> the costy part is to copy the deb in the vm and to test for me
<pitti> bind-mounting ~, /dev/, /tmp/, /sys, and /proc into chroots does wonders
<seb128> I should try that
<seb128> do we have documentation on how to set all that up?
<pitti> e. g. I can run nemiver or calibre in my sid chroot without problems
<pitti> consolekit is more tricky, but I just build/test that on Ubuntu
<pitti> it has few dependencies, and we don't differ much there
<pitti> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/scripts/makechroot FYI
<seb128> right, I was rather curious on how other test their debian updates than anything else
<seb128> pitti, danke
<pitti> seb128: it breaks halfway for sid creation, as it's tailored for Ubuntu, but it shouldn't take you long to adapt it
<seb128> rodrigo_, ubuntu has no su, we use sudo only
<pitti> we do have su, just no root password
<seb128> well by default I mean
<seb128> right, wrong wording "you shouldn't have to do use su, sudo does the job"
<pitti> TTFN, have to go to my bureaucracy appointments
<pitti> to become an official citizen of Augsburg and all that
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, but I liike knowing the root password, when ssh'ing, etc
<pitti> see you on Monday, or tomorrow morning if you are so inclined
<rodrigo_> oh, it's not installed by default?
<seb128> pitti, have "fun", see you later or have a nice weekend if not ;-)
<pitti> have a nice weekend everyone!
<pitti> rodrigo_: su is installed by default
<pitti> rodrigo_: ssh root@box? eww!
<rodrigo_> pitti, have "fun" yeah :)
<pitti> rodrigo_: disallowing root ssh is the first thing that you should do on a server
<rodrigo_> pitti, no, ssh rodrigo@box and then su
<seb128> rodrigo_, doh, you should ssh to your user and use sudo ;-)
<rodrigo_> also, I have nautilus scripts that open a root terminal
<seb128> pitti, btw if you get bord tomorrow gnome-icon-theme is the next blocker
<pitti> seb128: ok
<seb128> pitti, gnome-icon-theme-symbolic depends on the new icon theme
<rodrigo_> I almost never use it, but yes, I like setting the root password :)
<seb128> which is a depends for nautilus, totem, g-c-c and other things in debian
 * pitti waves
<seb128> we lowered to recommends but we go broken icons displayed without it
<seb128> pitti, bye
<seb128> see you on monday ;-)
<rodrigo_> I can do gnome-icon-theme, or is there anything other needed?
<seb128> rodrigo_, well pitti has work items to clean duplications and review the humanity icons overlap to maybe ship only humanity by default
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<rodrigo_> I'll leave it to him then
<chrisccoulson> seb128, you're using xchat-gnome aren't you?
<seb128> rodrigo_, g-c-c seems ready to upload, just some changelog details
<seb128> chrisccoulson, correct
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, which details?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, are you having refresh issues with it again? it's pretty messed up here
<seb128> rodrigo_, in fact I overlooked the apg thing I though it was not mentionned so ignore me, just the symbolic icon theme should probably stay a recommends rather than being dropped
<seb128> rodrigo_, changelog entries should already be wrapped at 80 chars
<rodrigo_> seb128, it's already in Recommends, just not in the changelog, so fixing that
<rodrigo_> seb128, anything else?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no but I'm cheating, I don't dist-upgrade, I only pick selected updates, i.e I left xorg in the natty versions
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, great work otherwise, feel free to upload ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ah, perhaps i should have done the same ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw I will upload mousetweak a bit later if nobody else do it before but could you ask to cjwatson to get it in the desktop set?
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<rodrigo_> seb128, thanks for the review :)
<seb128> yw
<rodrigo_> ugh, talking about dist-upgrade, I did it on my laptop, and now lots of packages failed to configure :(
 * rodrigo_ goes fix it
<seb128> what error do you get?
<rodrigo_> lots
<rodrigo_> but seems it was because of an empty tomboy.schemas in /usr/share/gconf/schemas, which was preventing gconf2 to config
<seb128> it's likely down to one issue
<rodrigo_> seems now it's ok
<seb128> right mterry fixed that one yesterday
<seb128> thanks mterry ;-)
<mterry> :)
<mterry> only because cyphermox made me
<rodrigo_> :)
<rodrigo_> ok, rebooting now my laptop
<cjwatson> seb128: I can't do that until it's in the archive
<rodrigo_> pray all please :)
<seb128> cjwatson, mousetweaks? it's there since hardy
<seb128> cjwatson, sorry I forgot the s before
<seb128> just noticed
 * mterry is making jcastro happy, deleting ancient DesktopTeam wiki pages
<seb128> mterry, you desktop hater! ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<cjwatson> chrisccoulson,seb128: done now
<chrisccoulson> cjwatson, excellent, thanks :)
<rodrigo_> ok, it booted correctly, oneiric is ready to release! :D
<seb128> cjwatson, thanks ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, it builds -> it can be uploaded, it starts -> it can be shipped
<seb128> right? ;-)
<rodrigo_> yes :)
<chrisccoulson> that sounds like a fairly good way of measuring quality :)
<rodrigo_> brb
<cyphermox> good morning!
<pedro_> morning :-)
<rodrigo_> hmm, the themes don't work after dist-upgrading
<rodrigo_> and gnome-tweak-tool does nothing
<rodrigo_> themes and fonts
<rodrigo_> anyway, lunch now
<dpm> hi jibel, do you know who in QA was (or is) assigned to kernel testing?
<lool> Got this one earlier; someone already on it?
<lool> dpkgÂ : erreur de traitement de /var/cache/apt/archives/libevince3-3_3.0.0-4ubuntu1_amd64.deb (--unpack)Â : tentative de remplacement de Â«Â /usr/lib/evince/3/backends/libdvidocument.soÂ Â», qui appartient aussi au paquet libevdocument3 2.32.0-0ubuntu13
<jibel> dpm, hi, pedro_ and hggdh were doing kernel sru testing, do you need help with something ?
<dpm> jibel, it's ok, thanks, I've just asked pedro_ and he's told me that. I just want to have some general overview on how it works, but I'm talking to him already. Thanks!
<jibel> dpm, yw
<seb128> lool, check with rodrigo_ but I think not, seems a lack of Replaces
<lool> rodrigo_: ^
<seb128> lool, he's away for lunch and that was not raised before so he's not on it, you are welcome to fix it if you want ;-)
<lool> hmm complete reset of the packaging apparently
<seb128> lool, rebase on Debian you mean?
<rodrigo_> lool, hmm, that lib is now in libevince, so yeah, seems it's missing a Replaces:
<rodrigo_> it's also wrong on the Debian package, so we should forward it to Debian also
<rodrigo_> lool, on it, unless you are already working on a fix
<chrisccoulson> is anyone using the new evo here?
<lool> rodrigo_, seb128: I pushed a fix to the bzr branch
<rodrigo_> lool, ah, ok
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, yes, me
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, oh, i needed to restart gconfd to get it to work
<chrisccoulson> i wonder if that was leftovers from the tomboy breakage
<chrisccoulson> "evolution-shell-ERROR **: Unable to create EShellSettings property for GConf key '/apps/evolution/shell/start_offline' of type 'invalid'"
<chrisccoulson> aborting....
<seb128> lool, thanks
<kenvandine> mterry, so you're the cause of the wiki spam :)
<mterry> kenvandine, sorry  :)  I'm done now
<mterry> kenvandine, we had some really outdated stuff on the Desktop wiki
 * kenvandine needs to do the same
<seb128> do we have anything uptodate on the desktop wiki?
<cyphermox> grrr, looks like there's going to be much more repairs to be done here than originally thought :(
<cyphermox> seb128: you there?
<seb128> yes
<cyphermox> could you please sponsor my patches for bug 663014, srus to maverick and natty
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 663014 in gnome-nettool "No result for ping in Gnome-Nettool" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663014
<seb128> ok
<seb128> it's impressive that users already run oneiric
<seb128> we got quite a few duplicates for the file conflicts bugs we got yesterday and today
<ricotz> seb128, hi
<seb128> what is less impressive is that the users who run oneiric so early don't manage to look on launchpad to see if the issue has already been reported
<seb128> hey ric
<seb128> hey ricotz
<ricotz> seb128, might be gnome3 which causes this
<seb128> this?
<ricotz> seb128, the early testing of oneiric
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have time to sponsor the gnome-nettool srus mentioned an hour ago?
<seb128> ricotz, could be ;-)
<ricotz> micahg, chrisccoulson, i am running gjs/gnome-shell build against libmozjs185 now which feels fine
<ricotz> the official support is current in git http://git.gnome.org/browse/gjs/commit/?id=c3f95eab0df702b095a07cbec1b50021e4919840
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i can do that (as long as i can upload it)
<seb128> thanks
<jbicha> and users get used to things not breaking too badly on development releases
<kenvandine> my internet will be going down for short bit, getting an upgrade :)
<kenvandine> hopefully be back online real soon :)
<ricotz> pitti, hi, that reminds me -- the last udev update caused the same problem i had before, it creates the folder /run/udev which renders X unusable until it delete it again
<seb128> jcastro, don't worry about the vinagre build failure, I backported the gtk-vnc depends fixes from debian git and will retry vinagre
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ted: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~jkl102001
<seb128> can you maybe check the bugs from that guy?
<seb128> he opened quite some leak bugs with valgrind logs
<seb128> could be nice ones to work on
<seb128> some of the indicator stack
<jbicha> seb128: I was also testing adding libgtk-vnc-2.0-0 to vinagre's build-depends
<jbicha> seb128: adding that 1 line resulted in a successful build in my PPA
<seb128> jbicha, that's wrong though, the gtk-vnc fix should work
<seb128> bah, I hate autotools
<seb128> totem fails to build on an automake error but there is nothing in the log telling which error and it builds here
<jbicha> oh ok, a fix is better than a workaround
<seb128> guess I need an oneiric pbuilder
<seb128> jbicha, http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-libvirt/gtk-vnc.git;a=patch;h=94cd0862270d795b7afc564ceb4ff65c23e724e6
<seb128> jbicha, that's the fix
<seb128> it should work
<jbicha> you might as well grab this one too then: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-libvirt/gtk-vnc.git;a=patch;h=68e1891df5167a5364c98008289502efdb85336a;hp=94cd0862270d795b7afc564ceb4ff65c23e724e6
<jbicha> and then we can take out that line from our build-depends
<seb128> jbicha, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/72088116/gtk-vnc_0.4.3-2ubuntu1_0.4.3-2ubuntu2.diff.gz
<seb128> it's there, I took the 2 debian commits
<seb128> jbicha, but no need of another vinagre upload for that, we can clean that on the next upload
<ricotz> seb128, do you know a simple script to get the ppastats like download-counts and so on?
<seb128> no
<seb128> check with fta maybe since he does that sort of things for chromium
<ricotz> ok, he should be pinged now ;)
<fta> uh?
<fta> ricotz, something like this? http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/chromium/stats/stats.html
<micahg> ricotz: re gjs> it's on the list
<ricotz> jbicha, hi, i think vinagre-dev is missing gir file
<jbicha> ricotz: why don't eog & gedit have a separate gir any more?
<ricotz> jbicha, is might be located at /usr/share/vinagre/gir-1.0
<jbicha> because it looked it me like vinagre needed the gir to run
<jbicha> and I had a circular depends going
<jbicha> so maybe I'm a bit confused
<ricotz> fta, yeah something like that :), i just thought of a command line tool
<jbicha> I had a separate gir but then moved it into vinagre
<ricotz> micahg, good, just wanted to let you it works fine
<seb128> jbicha, because debian decided those are private to the application and not really library bindings
<seb128> so they don't ship them in an extra binary
<ricotz> jbicha, you installed the typelib which is in debian/tmp/usr/lib/vinagre-3.0/girepository-1.0
<jbicha> and nothing's going to be depending on vinagre's gir either, right?
<micahg> ricotz: great, thank you, would it be possible to get the patch in Debian so we can just make the debian/control change?
<seb128> ricotz,
<seb128> vinagre: /usr/lib/vinagre-3.0/girepository-1.0/Vinagre-3.0.typelib
<seb128> vinagre: /usr/share/vinagre/gir-1.0/Vinagre-3.0.gir
<seb128> on oneiric
<seb128> ricotz, not sure what your point is?
<ricotz> micahg, i hope so, but i grabbed the gjs git head for now
<ricotz> seb128, jbicha, i just looked at the install files and totally missed debian/tmp/usr/share :\
<fta> ricotz, i have one but launchpad is too slow so i'm not releasing it until the lp devs do something about it
<ricotz> fta, hmm, too bad, i really like to see the ppastats for gnome3-team/gnome3
<fta> ricotz, i can still do it for you ;)
<ricotz> fta, that would be great :)
<fta> ricotz, do you need detailed stats? (like those with a "*" in the url above)
<ricotz> fta, hmm, i think it might be better since it is updated quite often lately
<fta> ricotz, i can add that table for each deb but it will be slooowwww, and it will create a huge database (a giant json file). i usually restrict that to the main debs, not all the -dev and deps. I basically need a list
<ricotz> fta, ah ok, a "simple" version will do it then
<fta> hm, "866 builds", that should work, i have 20k for chromium and it takes 4h to fetch the stats
<ricotz> fta, so it would be done in like <10min?
<fta> ricotz, no, it's not linear. it's a function of the number of binaries / dists / arches / days
<ricotz> fta, alright :)
<seb128> jbicha, do you want to do some other updates? maybe vino?
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, i sponsored your packages now
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: sweet, thanks!
<chrisccoulson> seb128, want me to do some updates?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, if you want that would be great
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i can do some
<seb128> chrisccoulson, some random ones you can grab; eog (trivial, just a .1 update), gucharmap to rebase on debian (use the ~gnome3-team work for those), yelp
<jbicha> seb128: I'm a bit busy for the next few days so I don't know if I'll be able to do those for a bit
<seb128> yelp-xsl
<seb128> jbicha, ok no worry, thanks for the work on did so far, feel free to take on over things if you feel like doing some ;-)
<jbicha> I submitted a patch to Debian to update their yelp-xsl, which is needed for the latest yelp
<seb128> ok
<seb128> we have a git commit to fix a translation issue on that but we should be able to sync when .2 is out and in debian
<chrisccoulson> seb128, cool, i'll take those now
<jbicha> also I saw that Debian's gdm may not have the same $PATH problem ours does but I couldn't svn co since Debian is doing
<jbicha> alioth maintenance
<seb128> chrisccoulson, great, note them on the pad to avoid duplication ;-)
<chrisccoulson> man, xchat is getting really difficult to use now
<chrisccoulson> i see different text if i highlight the characters ;)
<seb128> jbicha, ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson, downgrade the intel driver to the natty version? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh, i might do that
<seb128> mterry, ping
<mterry> seb128, heyo
<seb128> mterry, just pinging because I read your accountsservice note on the etherpad, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/accountsservice/+bug/785680 :p
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 785680 in accountsservice "[MIR] accountsservice" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> but I just saw you assigned it to didier
<seb128> no hurry we made it only a recommends for now
<mterry> seb128, yeah, I just did a boatload of perl MIRs, so I'm a bit MIR'd out today
<seb128> no worry, it's not an issue until we start building CDs
<seb128> mterry, grab some updates if you want to do something different ;-)
<mterry> seb128, about to finish anjuta, which was blocked on devhelp being sync'd  :)
<mterry> Actually, about to eat lunch.  Change of plans!  :)
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> if syncs are blocking you feel free to ping on the channel
<seb128> mterry, enjoy! ;-)
<mterry> seb128, I've been making a lot of edits to the DesktopTeam wiki page btw, hope I didn't change anything you really loved
<seb128> mterry, I will check but don't worry I think the wiki is mostly lacking love and outdated
<seb128> so great that someone does work on it ;-)
<mterry> seb128, yeah, that was the motivation  :)  Lots of bad links
<fta> ricotz, you're lucky..
<fta> ricotz, it was fast
<fta> ricotz, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/chromium/stats/stats-gnome3.html
<ricotz> fta, great
<fta> ricotz, oh, everything before Feb 10 is wrong: lp bug
<ricotz> fta, ok, but it is pretty nice
<ricotz> more downloads than i thought
<fta> yep, around 100k users
<fta> maybe more
<jbicha> is debian's rename to gdm3 permanent or temporary?
<fta> ricotz, also, the arch-all counts are wrong, another lp bug. only consider the real i386/amd64 binaries
<seb128> jbicha, gdm has a stack of patches and is not easy to merge and nobody wanted to spend the efforts
<dobey> what's the best way to upgrade to O? if i do "sudo update-manager -d" it's not showing me the "You can upgrade to this new devel release" thingy at the top :-/
<seb128> jbicha, we might go back in sync, especially if we switch to lightdm as our default login manager this cycle
<seb128> dobey, edit the sources.list, natty->oneiric, dist-upgrade
<ricotz> fta, ok
<jbicha> well I mean we already had the 3.0 in the PPA
<jbicha> but it's just who has time to mess with it since Oneiric final at this point won't be using it
<dobey> awesome. X (or likely unity/compiz) crashed while doing dist-upgrade to O :(
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, everything except for firefox crashed when i undocked my laptop
<dobey> sigh, i totally broke my laptop :(
<dobey> i see why nothing works right though
<dobey> none of the gsettings schemas seem to be installed
<dobey> so nautilus always opens $HOME in a window on log-in, and doesn't draw the background or anything useful
<dobey> and compiz doesn't draw the background either, so it's just a broken gl surface that ends up with buffer data getting cached in it
<dobey> and now it just locked up hard when i went to log in with gdm
<andyrock>  is here someone else who is in charge of gtk3 packaging?
<cyphermox> andyrock: questions?
<andyrock> cyphermox, i am porting ayatana scrollbar to gtk3
<cyphermox> ok
<andyrock> cyphermox, but i found a bad bug in gtk3
<andyrock> cyphermox, i spoked with garnacho
<andyrock> cyphermox, and i confirmed this bug
<andyrock> cyphermox, the bug is now fixed in upstream
<cyphermox> ok
<andyrock> cyphermox, my question is:
<andyrock> how soon will "patched" gtk3 be available on natty and oneric
<andyrock> ?
<andyrock> cyphermox, ^^^
<cyphermox> on natty it will require backporting the patch to the gtk3 we have there and going through the SRU process if it applies for it
<cyphermox> which means at least one week until it's in updates?
<cyphermox> on oneiric it can get in much faster
<andyrock> cyphermox, is a very bed bug!
<cyphermox> do you have a clearly defined way to test failure and that it's fixed?
<andyrock> cyphermox, i have a defined way to test failure
<cyphermox> (and can you point me to a bug, patch, or git commit?)
<andyrock> garnacho said me that the bug is fixed
<andyrock> but we can compile the upstrem gtk3
<cyphermox> ok, then can you explain what the bug is so I can figure out which commit it is?
<andyrock> so... as you know, gtk3 use by default xi2
<andyrock> with gtk, using toplevel widget
<andyrock> and adding a event filter
<andyrock> some events are not captured
<andyrock> such as motion event...
<andyrock> i can write a gtk app
<andyrock> that works fine with gtk2, but doen't works with gtk3
<andyrock> ok?
<andyrock> i don't know if there is a bug on bugzilla?
<andyrock> *!
<cyphermox> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/log/ the last four gdk commits sound about right? or maybe ask garnacho whether this is the right stuff?
<andyrock> i am asking
<cyphermox> thansk
<andyrock> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=1b53741e4c15e3923e614cdb707174033f0013e0, and the 3 before that one
<andyrock> there is no bugzilla entry
<cyphermox> ok
<andyrock> cyphermox, we can not port a lot of apps because this error...
<andyrock> cyphermox, a last question: i have to do anything?
<cyphermox> well I guess all that needs to be done is backporting that patch or updating gtk3, so not really
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: still there?
<andyrock> cyphermox, ok... thanks a lot!
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, i am
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: you familiar with gtk3's packaging?
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, a bit, how come?
<cyphermox> I can always backport the patches, but it seems like it needs an update too, according to the versions page
<chrisccoulson> i can't upload it btw ;)
<cyphermox> ahh
<cyphermox> in that case there's no point discussing this much ;)
<cyphermox> andyrock: is there a way you could open a bug about it and show what's going wrong precisely? then I can backport the patches, attach a branch to that bug report and let someone sponsor/upload it
<andyrock> i can try
<cyphermox> andyrock: of course i mean a launchpad bug there
<cyphermox> otherwise it's a little hard to document why we need the patches
<andyrock> andyrock, of course
<andyrock> is this (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0) the right place for bugs?
<cyphermox> andyrock: yeah, that's alright
<andyrock> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/785948
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 785948 in gtk+3.0 "Something along "GdkWindow filters don't work with X GenericEvents"" [Undecided,New]
<andyrock> cyphermox, ^^^
<cyphermox> thanks
<andyrock> is it ok?
<bcurtiswx> is update-manager upstream in LP ?
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx: yes, update-manager upstream is LP
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, muchas gracias
<cyphermox> grr, can't seem to get to git.debian.org or alioth :/
<Laney> alioth is down isn't it?
<Laney> http://lists.debian.org/debian-infrastructure-announce/2011/05/msg00000.html
<cyphermox> ah, so that's the part I was missing
<Laney> :-)
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-21
<glernil> someone here knows how to install the driver of lan card ASUS P5G41T-M LX3 for ubuntu server 10.10
<glernil> someone here knows how to install the driver of lan card ASUS P5G41T-M LX3 for ubuntu server 10.10
<bcurtiswx> gconf2 install failed, causing a ton of packages to be left unconfigured :(
<hv> is appmenu temporarily broken, or did I do something wrong? only firefox has appmenu at the moment on my machine.
<Omega> Why don't we ship preload installed to reduce application start time?
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-22
<hv> are there general guidelines that help port ubuntu gtk2 apps to gtk3?
<userWORLD> hi guys
<userWORLD> hi
<AC87C> hi
<AC87C> hi
<AC87C> hi, johanbr
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-14
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Hi. How was your trip?
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, uneventful
<TheMuso> Yep, same.
<RAOF> Excellent.
<thumper> my plane didn't explode either
<robert_ancell> thumper, oh really?  Awesome
<thumper> always look on the bright side :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: Of you're back too, or are you still in Melbourne?
<RAOF> TheMuso: Still in Melbourne.
<TheMuso> ah ok.
<RAOF> At least the lounge is quite nice :)
<TheMuso> Yeah, thats a bonus I guess.
<RAOF> And I've managed to shower and change clothes, which is extra-nice.
<Optichip> bleh
<Laney> morning
<pitti> hey Laney, got back in one piece?
<Laney> just about, but my laptop almost didn't
<Laney> the person in front of me put her seat back and almost crushed it
<Laney> ah well :-)
<Laney> how was your trip?
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<pitti> ca va?
<TheMuso> Hey Europe folks. Hope you all had safe travels.
 * TheMuso is about to crash hard after an uneventful trip flying in this morning.
<pitti> mine was rather quiet; the A380 is surprisingly silent, and I was able to sleep a bit
<TheMuso> Oh yeah, the a380 is nice to travel in. I had one from LA to Sydney.
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va bien, et toi?
<didrocks> hey TheMuso
<pitti> didrocks: Je suis trÃ¨s fatiguÃ©
<didrocks> we apparently had someone who tried to exit the flight during the night
<pitti> well, not exactly tired, but my head feels strange
<pitti> didrocks: !?
<didrocks> I heard that 4 people were needed to make him harmless and they locked it in the restroom for 5 hours
<didrocks> then, he was still agressive and they put some medecine to make him sleep
<didrocks> apparently, he was near jibel, so we can have more info later on :)
<didrocks> (I didn't notice anything from the back of the plane, just got some updates from rick and huats once we landed)
<huats> that is whta I have heard too :)
<BigWhale> didrocks, that guy was sitting beside me :>
<didrocks> BigWhale: had a good night? :)
<BigWhale> aprat from that, yes :>
<BigWhale> apart
<smspillaz> didrocks: O.o
<BigWhale> oh night ... not flight :>
<BigWhale> flight was quite awesome, some drama, to make it a bit less boring! :>
<smspillaz> I got stopped and searched /again/ on accusation that I was a drug smuggling child pornographer identity stealer because I dropped my immigration ticket but that surely doesn't stand up to didrocks story
<didrocks> smspillaz: you still have immigration tickets?
<didrocks> I didn't get one for at least a year now
<smspillaz> oh as in
<smspillaz> in australia, they have a computerized immigration system - if you have an RFID enabled passport you can do immigration by looking at a camera which does face detection :)
<smspillaz> except that they give you a ticket at the end which you give to the CBP officer who usually just lets you through except that I lost my ticket
<smspillaz> in the 30 or so steps it takes to get from A to B
<smspillaz> still, that doesn't stand up to a bucket of crazy on the plane :)
<didrocks> :)
<smspillaz> I still like how the immigration officers try and invent more and more far fetched stories to try and make you "admit" something
<smspillaz> "So Ubuntu? Is that some kind of computer hacking ring?"
<smspillaz> "Ever been in contact with narcotics? Sure? Its a crime if you've been in the same room etc etc"
<didrocks> seems australia is weird :)
<didrocks> in France, the officer just take your passeport, give it back to you, no question, no hello, nothingâ¦
<BigWhale> didrocks, yeah I actually liked that it was super quick
<BigWhale> then later in Slovenia, customs officer was going through my underwear ...
<BigWhale> :>
<didrocks> urgh
<seb128> hey
<BigWhale> seb128, hello
<seb128> hey BigWhale
<MrChrisDruif> Hai
<davidcalle> Hey all :)
<MrChrisDruif> Hai davidcalle
<MrChrisDruif> =)
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, hey, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: okay-ish, still a bit numb in my head due to the jetlag
<pitti> but I'm mostly doing some laundry and cleaning today anyway
<seb128> same here
<seb128> email catching up as well, nothing that requires to focus ;-)
<pitti> I still got my 11:20 train yesterday, airport went pretty smoothly
<seb128> great
<gema> I feel like I have been on a train all the way from SFO
<gema> I hope indicators are as easy as they looked in the plenary, cos I was planning to learn about them today :D
<gema> hello-unity, here I come
<pops> Hi !
<pops> Need help with compiz...
<bcurtiswx> Morning . After UDS you all got devotion bonuses from canonical for being here today?
<bcurtiswx> If not you should :-P
<mlankhorst> bcurtiswx: nah we just recover, it's stupidity to work today
<mlankhorst> it may make you more productive in the short run, but less productive overall
<mlankhorst> Same with working >40 hours consistently :)
<bcurtiswx> mlankhorst: Lol, took me a few days myself from UDS-O and I had to start 40/wk right after. It's the most fun you can have :)
<mlankhorst> bcurtiswx: Im not going to do any work related things today, I need to calm down rest and readjust first. :)
<bcurtiswx> mlankhorst: Darn, and I had three pages of sync requests I wanted to discuss.
<mlankhorst> bcurtiswx: That's the beauty about rest, I can just say "it can wait". :)
<mlankhorst> Very zen!
<jbicha> yay! I'm a GNOME Foundation member now
<seb128> jbicha, hey, congrats!
<seb128> jbicha, had a good flight back?
<jbicha> seb128: yeah, I didn't sleep as well on the plane though, my mind had too much exciting stuff to think about
<seb128> hehe
<jbicha> Lars & I walked from the Embarcadero all the way around to Ghiradelli Square
<didrocks> ok, time to walk a little bit outside and then dinner for early evening :)
<didrocks> see you tomorrow everyone!
<jbicha> I think I walked 10 miles on Saturday
<vuntz> seb128: hey
<seb128> vuntz, hey, how are you?
<vuntz> seb128: remember you pinged me months ago about versions-stable-extras not having the right versions for some modules?
<seb128> vuntz, yes
<vuntz> seb128: I've fixed the scripts to make it possible to avoid that, so now, when you see a module with this issue, just tell me which one :-)
<seb128> great!
<seb128> vuntz, thanks
<vuntz> of course, this will have to be fixed again for all modules each time there's a new stable version, but that's not too much work
<vuntz> how was UDS?
<seb128> quite good
<seb128> jbicha signed up to do a "Ubuntu GNOME" respin
 * kenvandine is feeling a bit fried, gotta get my brain jump started :)
<seb128> i.e gnome-shell, upstream branding, epiphany, abiword, gnumeric, etc
<vuntz> yeah, I've seen that, that's great :-)
<seb128> got to go, bbl
 * bcurtiswx is excited to be getting back into Desktop team stuff this cycle :)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, you can ignore my e-mail from last week
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, oh... sorry i had forgotten already :)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, i don't know why I got the error in there but my intentions with that branch were wrong
<bcurtiswx> Folks 0.6.9 fixes a high heat LP bug, and I'm working on Empathy 3.4.2 which has bug fixes and takes care of an LP bug too
<bcurtiswx> I don't quite remember how Debian Syncs work for SRU's
<kenvandine> i've never done one for an SRU
<bcurtiswx> bug #917302 has a fix in folks 0.6.9 which is a bug fix release but as of right now we had that as a sync since we don't need to be diff from upstream
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 917302 in empathy "empathy-chat crashed with SIGSEGV in g_str_hash()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/917302
<bcurtiswx> right now folks is 0.6.8
<micahg> bcurtiswx: SRUs are generally cherry picked, you can sync to the devel release though
<bcurtiswx> micahg, so best practice would be cherry pick the one fix i need (out of two) and let the sync happen in Q??
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, do the sync to Q first
<micahg> bcurtiswx: if there are only 2 fixes and the risk is not that great, you might be able to SRU the new version
<micahg> but as kenvandine said, dev release comes first
<kenvandine> folks and empathy would get an update anyway, part of the gnome stack
<kenvandine> get it in Q then we'll look at them for SRU
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, micahg sounds good, thx
<kenvandine> np: :)
<dobey> AWESOME :(
 * dobey wonders which update exactly, broke the keyboard world
 * kenvandine is about to shutdown to do a clean install of quantal :)
<bryceh> dobey, keyboard breakage in what way?
<dobey> GConf Error: Type mismatch: Expected `string' got `list' for key /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/switch_windows
<dobey> every keybinding in metacity, breaking
<dobey> running "gnome-control-center keyboard" prints *lots* of those in the terminal
<bryceh> dobey, ok
<dobey> but for some reason, also seems to be broken upstream
<james_w> hi, looks like Bryce and Robert both worked on rhythmbox at the same time: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/rhythmbox/quantal-201205140516/+merge/105608
<dobey> which is weird, as it was working fine, until some update during the past week
<dobey> at least "gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/metacity/global_keybindings /apps/metacity/window_keybindings" fixes it
<dobey> at laest, until something decides to trample them all again
<bcurtiswx> for a sync, if the debian package contains a fix for an LP reported bug, do I edit the debian changelog or how does that all work?
<bcurtiswx> im using requestsync package right now
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx: should just work, afaik
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, do I add a part to the changelog to indicate which LP bug is fixed?
<cyphermox> it's not indicated?
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, i wasn't sure since it's bringing over the debian changelog in the sync
<cyphermox> a sync shouldn't be making changes
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, OK, so just fix-release the LP bugs that are fixed by the debian sync?
<bcurtiswx> manually
<cyphermox> or can be done with the syncpackage command once the sync is reviewed
<cyphermox> just mention which bugs in the sync bug
<dobey> bcurtiswx: if the debian bug is referenced (and thus closed upstream), and the LP bug is watching the upstream, i would think it would be fairly automagic
<dobey> if it's not, maybe some magic needs to be added for that
<bcurtiswx> dobey, OK. I'll let the wizard in the build machines do the hard work then :)
<dobey> i haven't really done anything with debian packages directly yet, though. so maybe i am just being hopeful :)
<bcurtiswx> bug #999290 thx all
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 999290 in folks "Sync folks 0.6.9-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999290
<jbicha> I guess we'll hit bug 1 million this week
<ubot2> jbicha: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 (Not reporting large bug)
<jbicha> yeah, that too
<geser> bcurtiswx: does the Debian changelog has already the "LP: #xxx" magic token in it?
<bcurtiswx> geser, no
<geser> bcurtiswx: then the Ubuntu task has to be manually set to "Fix released" once the sync is done
<bcurtiswx> geser, OK. not a problem. I just wanted to make sure i wasn't supposed to add it to the sync changelog myself
<geser> jbicha: hopefully we don't find any code which assumes that bug numbers have 6 digits
<geser> bcurtiswx: syncs get copied from Debian unmodified, I'm not sure right now if an existing "LP: #xxx" in the new Debian changelog entries would get pickuped with LP API syncs
<geser> Laney: ^^ do you know this?
<Laney> geser: it should do
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, i did a clean install with quantal, i am going to see how long i can hold out without install evolution :)
<jbicha> kenvandine: we need people to test Evolution too :)
<kenvandine> jbicha, i've never lasted more than a couple days without evo :)
<kenvandine> jbicha, but i do still have it on my desktop, which i am sure will get upgraded soon
<jbicha> good, because we'll be getting Evolution 3.4 soon
<kenvandine> looking forward to it
<kenvandine> the first time setup for tbird with gmail is pretty bad...
<kenvandine> UI is fine
<kenvandine> but it's been nearly an hour and it is still pegging a CPU and using a ton of memory
<kenvandine> 3G RSS and 89% CPU
<TheMuso> Good $TIMEOFDAY folks. Hope everybody had safe travels home.
 * bryceh waves
<TheMuso> Hey bryceh. You were one of the fortunate ones who didn't have very far to go at all.
<bryceh> TheMuso, for once...
<bryceh> TheMuso, the no jet lag thing was nice too :-)
<RAOF> Good yo!
<TheMuso> Morning RAOF. I hope you slept well.
<TheMuso> I know I did, crashed by 7:30 last night.
<TheMuso> And woke up at about 6:40 this morning.
<RAOF> I woke a bit early, but that was because I was going to morning exercise.
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<RAOF> I managed to last until 9:30 ish last night.
<TheMuso> Not too bad, traveling in business has its purks, like getting better sleep.
<RAOF> No business for me on the way home :/
<RAOF> Just the way over :)
<TheMuso> Damn.
<TheMuso> Oh well.
<RAOF> Yeah.
<RAOF> At least I now know where the power is in economy on the A380s :)
<TheMuso> Yep, I know where it is too, but haven't had the need to use it yet.
<RAOF> We have a gtk2-engines-oxygen SRU?  Really?!
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-15
<TheMuso> robert_ancell is on a mission! :)
<TheMuso> That being to remove launchpad-integration.
<bryceh> oh?
<TheMuso> Yep, in the GNOME plans session it was decided to drop it, and plans are being made to possibly create an indicator that will help users get involved with testing/filing bugs.
<bryceh> ah, interesting
<robert_ancell> TheMuso it's pretty much gone now
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, actually the next step is to remove it from the archive - how do we do that?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Simply file a bug against launchpad-integration and ask for removal, subscribing ubuntu-archive, and explaning why you want it removed.
<bryceh> TheMuso, hey, had a question regarding package removals
<TheMuso> bryceh: Sure, not sure if I will be able to answer it though.
<bryceh> TheMuso, if the package to be removed is in debian, is it actually meaningful to do a removal request?
<bryceh> i.e. say you have packages a and b both from debian, but we should only carry b in ubuntu, would it make sense to do a ubuntu removal request for a, if debian intends to continue carrying both?
<TheMuso> bryceh: Not in Ubuntu. Afaik our archive admins regularly check package removals in debian, and will remove the pacakge in Ubuntu as well.
<TheMuso> SO remove it in Debian, it will be removed in Ubuntu, particularly if its a package that is auto synced from Debian.
<TheMuso> If we have Ubuntu changes, it may need further checks to see if we want to remove it or not, but other than that.
<bryceh> TheMuso, but for a package that debian will not be dropping?  (Or at least, is still unconvinced)
<TheMuso> bryceh: I think we just remove it ourselves, and blacklist it from being synced.
<RAOF> It *does* make sense to request a removal for a package that's expected to remain in Debian; it gets removed, and added to the sync blacklist.
<bryceh> ok thanks
<TheMuso> bryceh: For example, I requested the removal of some legacy at-spi stuff the other day. Debian still has it, and it may stick around there for a while, but for us, it will only get in the way and cause upgrade headaches in certain circumstances, and since they are no longer maintained upstream, its easier to have them out of our, or should I say my, hair.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, ubuntustudio-meta needs updating to drop launchpad-integration - can I do that or should I open a bug?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: If you have write access to the seeds, go ahead. If not, let me know and I'll modify the seeds, so you can go ahead and update the meta.
<TheMuso> i.e I can modify the seeds, and you can still do the meta if you want. I can do both if you prefer.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, if it's ok can you do it.  I'd prefer to have someone from the project do it
<TheMuso> Yep I will take care of it.
<TheMuso> Ok seeds updated, just doing the meta now, and will upload.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Done.
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Hey pitti.
<TheMuso> Hope you managed to catch up on sleep. :)
<pitti> hey TheMuso
<pitti> TheMuso: I was indeed; unlike on the way there, I had about zero problems to adapt back here
<pitti> TheMuso: how about yourself?
<TheMuso> Crashed about 7:30 last night, and slept till about 6:40 this morning. Feeling ok atm, but will have another early night to really catch up properly.
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how are you?
<pitti> didrocks: quite well, thanks! how about yourself?
<pitti> didrocks: I seemed to have zero trouble readjusting on the way back
<didrocks> pitti: I'm fine as well, waking up a little bit earlier than usual (and same for fighting against sleeping yesterday evening), but mostly on track as well :)
<didrocks> pitti: nice that you didn't have the same issue than for adjusting to San Francisco timezone
<jasoncwarner_> morning EU folk :)
<didrocks> hey jasoncwarner_!
<didrocks> it seems your trip back wasn't straightforward?
<pitti> hey jasoncwarner_
<pitti> jasoncwarner_: back home at last?
<jasoncwarner_> hey pitti and didrocks
<jasoncwarner_> yeah, got home late mother's day (sunday), but it was a bit of an adventure
<jasoncwarner_> but, all's well that ends well type of scenario ;)
<didrocks> heh :)
<jasoncwarner_> how about you guys? hopefully straightforward?
<didrocks> it seems that someone tried to escape the flight during the night by trying to open an exit door. 4 people stopped him and he got locked in the restroom
<jasoncwarner_> didrocks: wha? :/
<jasoncwarner_> Ok, that is actually more excitement than mine!
 * Sweetshark got home rather good and hopes that all non-A380-transatlantic-flights will stop by the end of the year, so that he never need to fly one of those old 1960-tech boeings again ...
<pitti> Sweetshark: I indeed found it to be rather quiet
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: well, I was at the back of the plane and hopefully didn't notice it. Should have been less fun for people near the center of the plane
<TheMuso> Yeah, whenever I have to fly on a 747 I always audibly groan.
<Sweetshark> pitti: and there is some room at the foodplace to do some gymnastics ...
<Sweetshark> TheMuso: 747 is still better than 757 in my recollection.
<TheMuso> Sweetshark: Still too loud compared to the 380.
 * micahg thinks the 787 would be nice
 * jasoncwarner_ thinks there is a bunch of plane nerds in this forum ;)
<jasoncwarner_> that being said, I like the a380!
<Sweetshark> micahg: hoping for technology from the 22nd century? or have they sold actually one by now?
 * micahg thought a few sold already
<TheMuso> Yes they have.
<TheMuso> The humidifiers is enough of a reason to want to travel on one IMO.
<pitti> TheMuso: oh, they have? I did notice that my nose and lips weren't dried out, as on the way to SF
<Sweetshark> right, after all DukeNukem3D is released too. But somehow we are not yet all running hurd .... strange.
<TheMuso> pitti: No, the 380 doesn't, but the 676 does.
<TheMuso> err 787
<Sweetshark> didrocks: congrats to survive that flight without a decompression then btw (already followed that "interesting flight" story on g+)
<didrocks> Sweetshark: quite a bit freaky, indeed :)
<RAOF> From what I understand the 787 isn't meant to be a 747/A380 replacement, though.  Which is disappointing!
<rickspencer3> pitti is on a blueprint obsleting rampage
<pitti> heh, cleaning up https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~pitti/+specs?role=approver :)
<mlankhorst> >:D
<bryceh> death to antique blueprints
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, BigWhale
<jasoncwarner_> hey BigWhale and chrisccoulson
<pitti> yay, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~pitti/+specs?role=approver is empty now
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, jasoncwarner_ and BigWhale. how is everyone?
<didrocks> doing well, thanks, yourself?
<didrocks> pitti: feeling free? :)
<BigWhale> I'm recovering from jetlag ... slowly :/
<jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: pretty good, thanks for asking. I mean, my house has a roof on it...yours? ;)
<pitti> didrocks: :)
<BigWhale> and being at work early in the morning doesn't really help :>
<chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, heh, that's good. we still have a leaking roof here ;)
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson; I'm quite fine, thanks! how about you?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, not too bad thanks. still a bit tired though
<jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: I found the secret to that. Apparently you can order caffeine in powder form on the internet! I mean, how cool is that? now, I just need to remember if it is 1g or 10g. Might as well start with 10g...can't hurt, right?
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'd go for the 10g :)
<mlankhorst> pitti: ping?
<pitti> mlankhorst: hello
<seb128> hey
<mlankhorst> pitti: should the items from https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-xorg-lts-backport-2 pad be coalesced into https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-xorg-lts-updates ?
<seb128> hey pitti
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> mlankhorst: or desktop-q-xorg-lts-backport-2 could just be made obsolete, if it is a duplicate spec
<seb128> robert_ancell really wants to see lpi going away it seems ;-)
<mlankhorst> it was a session specifically created to resolve some issues we had with how we would handle some stuff, so coalescing + declaring obsolete is ok?
<pitti> mlankhorst: sure, unless it's really about two different topics
<mlankhorst> kk :)
<mlankhorst> seems just that it needs to be declared obsolete then
<seb128> pitti, would you like to do the glib update to the new unstable serie? normally I would do it but I keep my system on stable since I will focus on .1 and I didn't set up a quantal vm yet (and I would prefer that it gets testing by something running unity 3d on real hardware as well)
<pitti> seb128: can do this afternoon, yes
<seb128> pitti, thanks, no hurry, doesn't need to be today
 * seb128 starts on GNOME 3.4.2 for SRU
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> didrocks, lut, nickel, toi ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va bien :)
<BigWhale> Err, how do I remove ubuntu-desktop and all the desktop packages?
<pitti> seb128: note that I accepted some "proposed" quantal BPs and also moved one or two stragglers from precise
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> pitti, is there a page that list the "proposed" bps?
<seb128> or did you just go through the list?
<pitti> seb128: link at the bottom of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+specs
<pitti> seb128: but I mostly cleaned up https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~pitti/+specs?role=approver and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~pitti/+specs?role=drafter
<pitti> i. e. closing obsolete ones, and adjusting the ones for quantal
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
<seb128> pitti, do you think that GNOME 3.4.2 updates with only a few updated translations are worth an upload?
<xclaesse> is it possible to make ubuntu stop creating "Ubuntu One" folder in my $HOME ?
<xclaesse> I've no idea why it randomly appear sometimes
<pitti> seb128: not sure really
<seb128> xclaesse, uninstall ubuntuone I guess?
<seb128> pitti, I decided that not, I just did vinagre since it's in universe and can't be langpacked through launchpad
<seb128> pitti, the other SRUs I'm doing have actual fixes as well
<pitti> ok
<seb128> pitti, I did a few verification-done tagging and some uploads this morning, I will continue this afternoon with nautilus, glib and gtk stable updates
<seb128> but finishing lunch,coffee first ;-)
<seb128> pitti, let me know when you have a minute to discuss desktop-q-third-party-driver-installation
<pitti> seb128: I have now
<seb128> pitti, small questions
<seb128> 1- the summary has "we need the "printer drivers from openprinting.org" logic moved into s-c-p"
<seb128> should that be on the workitems list somewhere?
<seb128> no w.i seems to mention printing
<pitti> indeed it should, adding
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> done
<seb128> pitti, second one is rather a question to make sure we don't overlook anything ... is ubiquity interacting with jockey in any way and if it does should we have a wi to check that it keeps working?
<pitti> it does indeed, so we'll need a wrapper script for that
 * pitti adds WI
<seb128> pitti, thanks, spec approved ;-)
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti back
<pitti> seb128: I'm inclined to drop glib's "revert single include" patch now, WDYT?
<seb128> pitti, go for it
<seb128> I think we fixed a good part of the rdepends previous cycle
<seb128> now is a good time also to fix the remaining ones
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey, is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-libreoffice-packaging reading for review? if it is please change the "definition" to review
<seb128> mterry, hey
<seb128> mterry, how are you? had a good flight back?
 * pitti waves to mterry
<mterry> pitti, hi!
<seb128> pitti, will you sru the new pygobject stable update?
<mterry> seb128, yeah.  I'm fine.  My roommate is sick, so I may have escaped the ubuflu only to run into the arms of the everyday flu.  :)
<seb128> mterry, :-(
<seb128> mterry, with some luck it's the same flu you had before UDS and you are immune to it still ;-)
<mterry> Here's hoping
<seb128> mterry, I'm reviewing blueprint, is there any design document for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-update-manager ?
<seb128> mterry, if so it would be nice to add the whiteboard
<seb128> mterry, doh, just saw the "Read the full specification" link
<seb128> ignore the question ;-)
<mterry> seb128, :)
<mterry> seb128, just filed a merge request to drop the changelog view in update-manager.  QQ  it will be missed
<seb128> mterry, set it to review if it's good to be reviewed (seems to be the case)
<pitti> sefewf wefadmed
<seb128> pitti, time to change password
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> there are still quite some glib-single-include bugs http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=glib-single-include;users=pkg-gnome-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org
<pitti> e
<pitti> seb128: yes, can do; packaging 3.2.2 ATM
<pitti> seb128: then I'll just need to mangle the changelog and upload
<seb128> pitti, great, thanks
 * pitti needs to get back to a working computer
<pitti> whatever that glib test suite does, it's super-evil
<pitti> first it broke my keyboard, now it froze my X session
<pitti> dbus-launch weechat in a VT FTW
<seb128> pitti, btw for things like nautilus 3.4.2 which has fixes that are in 3.5 git
<seb128> do you want the fixes backported in quantal at the same time?
<seb128> or is it fine to wait for 3.5.2 tarball to get them in quantal?
<seb128> (we already have 3.5.1 but those commits will be in .2)
<pitti> seb128: we can't miss them this way, so please mention that on the bugs, and add a quantal task
<seb128> pitti, I did that, thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<seb128> how are you? had a good flight back?
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<kenvandine> yup, and you?
<seb128> quite good thanks, we did got a airbus a380, great plane
<seb128> i.e lot less noisy that other planes
<kenvandine> nice!
<seb128> which is good ;-)
 * mlankhorst didn't have trouble sleeping from noise, just lack of night
<kenvandine> i did a fresh install of quantal yesterday
<mterry> mpt, I just noticed a tiny line in your update-manager spec that says "Below the list of updates should be a pane describing the selected update. This pane should be collapsed by default."  I almost missed that and thought there was no changelog box at all.  Is that pane the same changelog pane we have now or some future more user-friendly description that we don't have the architecture for yet
<mterry> ?
<seb128> kenvandine, how did it go?
<mpt> mterry, it's collapsed by default *because* we don't have an architecture for user-friendly description of updates
<kenvandine> smooth, besides trying to use thunderbird :)
<mpt> mterry, so yes, it's the existing changelog pane
<kenvandine> thunderbird still defaults to syncing all mail
<kenvandine> it was pegging my cpu for a couple hours yesterday and an hour this morning
<kenvandine> before i disabled syncing mail locally :)
<seb128> kenvandine, btw there is an empathy 3.4.2 update if you feels like sruing it
<kenvandine> seb128, bcurtiswx is already doing it
<seb128> ok, great
<kenvandine> and folks as well
<bcurtiswx> seb128, yes i'm on it.. it's the remembering how to after a year thats slow ;)
<mterry> mpt, so the current pane is actually a notebook with two tabs -- the changelog and the package description.  Do you want the description dropped?
<seb128> kenvandine, bcurtiswx: ok, great ;-)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, no big rush, let me know if you need any help
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, as always I will. :)
<kenvandine> seb128, my brain was mush yesterday... a good day to migrate data and do an install :)
<mpt> mterry, yes, I think so ... But I don't actually know whether people use the Description tab currently. Do you use it?
<mterry> mpt, no, but I'm not the target audience.  :)  I could imagine someone that doesn't know what the heck a firefox is might want it
<mterry> But I suppose packages describe themselves in the main list
<mpt> mterry, applications will, at least
<mterry> And again, those are rarely written for end users
<seb128> jbicha, hey
<jbicha> seb128: hi
<seb128> jbicha, how are you?
<seb128> jbicha, would you like to sru the clutter 1.10.4 update? it should fix bug #990302
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 990302 in clutter-gtk "Scrolling for embedded Gtk+ widgets is broken in Clutter" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/990302
<jbicha> I'm doing pretty good, and yes I was thinking of doing the clutter SRU this week
<seb128> jbicha, ok great, I let it for you then ;-)
<jbicha> seb128: could you sync jhbuild from unstable and gcr from experimental?
<seb128> jbicha, ok
<mterry> bryceh, I have a patch piloting scheduled this thursday.  You have one next thursday.  I'm looking to swap
<Sweetshark> seb128: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-libreoffice-packaging https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-libreoffice-qa-testsuites https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-libreoffice-split marked for review. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-libreoffice-lo-menubar-polish still pending some feedback by olli (which might actually already be there, but I am having an em
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok
<seb128> Sweetshark, irc cut your lines after "but I am having an"
<seb128> "but I am having an em"
<seb128> rather
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, current firefox (quantal) behaves odd -- when I switch to a tab that I didn't look at before (since starting firefox) it clears and loads the tab instead of showing the old page; that worked fine in previous releases
<pitti> chrisccoulson: known to you or want to get a bug for it?
<seb128> mvo, hey
<seb128> mvo, is there any new on the s-c and friends srus? ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: ... but I am having an email blackout because of system reinstall) ...
<pitti> seb128: glib 3.3.1 LGTM, uploading to experimental/quantal
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<seb128> larsu_, ^
<larsu> seb128, \o/
<pitti> larsu: oh, you were waiting for this?
<larsu> seb128, is it safe to upgrade to q yet?
<pitti> larsu: quite fine ATM
<pitti> larsu: dist-upgrade on Friday was flawless, and today's dist-upgrade too
<pitti> larsu: however, daily stability promise is only for and after alpha-1
<pitti> so double-check apt-get dist-upgrade output before it removes half your desktop :)
<jibel> Sweetshark, I'm setting up the env for LO testing but it failed to build on quantal http://paste.ubuntu.com/989053/
<larsu> pitti, yeah I'm really paranoid about dist-upgrade these days... I've been bitten by that before ;)
<larsu> pitti, I'll probably wait for a couple of weeks before upgrading my main machine
<Sweetshark> jibel: oh, nice!
<Sweetshark> jibel: hmm, I do not have an immediate fix/solution for that one ...
<jibel> Sweetshark, no problem, I'm on vacation until next Monday :)
<jibel> I'll file a bug with the log. there is also a dependency error on gcj-jdk
<mvo> seb128: yes, I juszt uploaded it
<seb128> mvo, \o/
<pitti> good night everyone!
<didrocks> have a good night pitti
<mvo> seb128: I just noticed a regression, could you reject it again?
<seb128> mvo, done
<mvo> thanks seb128
<didrocks> ok, time for dinner and evening here
<chrisccoulson> pitti - sorry, been out for another eye appointment this afternoon
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to switch firefox back to the old gcc later for now, maybe try again after that?
<chrisccoulson> there are multiple test failures that suggest another miscompile :(
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, had a good flight back?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it wasn't too bad, although i didn't manage to sleep
<chrisccoulson> how about you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, we lost you at the airport and didn't manage to say goodbye
<chrisccoulson> heh, that's ok ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the flight was great, a380 for the win
<chrisccoulson> nice :)
<seb128> that was a lot less noisy than the other old planes we usually have
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i've not been on one yet
<seb128> not to mention recent tv system and usb plugs in the arm rest parts
<chrisccoulson> and engines that don't fall apart when a fan blade breaks ;)
<chrisccoulson> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j973645y5AA)
<chrisccoulson> :-)
<seb128> lol
<chrisccoulson> seb128, that's the sort of thing i want to see on the in-flight entertainment :)
<chrisccoulson> as well as a few air crash investigation episodes
<chrisccoulson> i'm always watching that at home!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you want to watch people run out of the plane? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> it would be a more comfortable flight :)
<kenvandine> seb128, mind giving this a once over? lp:~ken-vandine/ayatana-scrollbar/package
<kenvandine> it is a big change, moving from shared lib to gtk module
<bryceh> mterry, fine by me to swap
<mterry> bryceh, cool, thanks
<kenvandine> seb128, that is destined to the scrollbars ppa for precise
<seb128> kenvandine, you mean quantal?
<kenvandine> no, building for precise to the ppa
<kenvandine> not destined for precise
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> i'll upload to quantal too
<kenvandine> soon
<seb128> kenvandine, is there anything in particular you want me to check there?
<seb128> kenvandine, btw aruiz mentioned last week that he fixed the lo-menubar print preview segfault bug, did you SRU that yet? is that on your list?
<kenvandine> well, it is no longer a shared lib
<kenvandine> but a gtk module
<kenvandine> i didn't see that
<kenvandine> so i renamed the packages, etc
<kenvandine> got a bug #?
<seb128> kenvandine, #754562
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> bug  #754562
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 754562 in lo-menubar "soffice.bin crashed with SIGSEGV in g_hash_table_lookup() (Libreoffice with lo-menubar crash from page preview)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754562
<kenvandine> wow... lots of dupes
<seb128> kenvandine, yeah, i didn't ping around at the sprint to get it fixed for no reason :p
<kenvandine> so i guess it was fixed after the release i uploaded to quantal :)
<seb128> kenvandine, he mentioned on our way to the GNOME dinner that he had the fix commited and that he pinged you about it IIRC
<seb128> seems like miscommunication
<seb128> can you check with him?
<kenvandine> oh... he pinged me with a new release
<seb128> right
<kenvandine> i'll find the fix and cherry pick it
<seb128> that has the fix for that bug
<seb128> thanks
<kenvandine> it included a few fixes
<seb128> well, fixes are SRU welcome
<seb128> if that's only fixes maybe SRU the new version
<kenvandine> i'll look, it included changes that got merged into LO upstream
<kenvandine> i'll look
<seb128> thanks
<jcastro> kenvandine: ok I get your request
<jcastro> and a black window
<jcastro> kenvandine: ok it's just slow, it works
<kenvandine> are you controlling it now?
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> jorge is awesome
<kenvandine> ha!
<jcastro> yes, controlling it now. :)
<kenvandine> :-D
<kenvandine> it is slow
<kenvandine> ok, so it is fixed in quantal :)
<kenvandine> hang on, testing again
<kenvandine> nothing...
<kenvandine> ok, so it is ignored in precise until i enable sharing
<kenvandine> so i just need to backport that fix too
<kenvandine> jcastro, are you getting my messages?
<kenvandine> if not, go offline and online again
<seb128> kenvandine, your overlay-scrollbar update seems fine to me
<kenvandine> seb128, thx!
<seb128> yw ;-)
 * kenvandine uploads yet another vino SRU
<seb128> kenvandine, did you backport the other fixes pointed on the bug?
<kenvandine> for vino?
<kenvandine> it was like 6 commits
<seb128> yes
<kenvandine> i got them all
<seb128> ok
<seb128> great work ;-)
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> wish we had noticed vino being busted before 12.04 :)
<seb128> yeah, another things we could improve our testing on...
<kenvandine> yeah :(
<kenvandine> so many details to test for so many packages
<kenvandine> we need to figure out a way to manage that
<kenvandine> it is hard enough to do that for our internal upstreams
<seb128> well, the only true way is the rickspencer3's way
<seb128> just add an automated test every time we fix a such issues to make sure it doesn't come back
<seb128> we should at least make a list of those things we should automate test at some point
<kenvandine> seb128, i also rolled in the 3.4.2 release
<kenvandine> which was just an upstream translation
<seb128> excellent
<seb128> we just need to get RAOF or pitti to wave in some of the SRUs waiting in the queue tomorrow next ;-)
<bcurtiswx> also the debian sync of folks would be great so it can be backported to precise
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i'll look at sponsoring empathy for you tomorrow... bzr is giving me a traceback on merging your branch
<bcurtiswx> i crashed bzr ?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> :-D
<bcurtiswx> could it be the bzr remove you had me do?
<kenvandine> MalformedTransform: Tree transform is malformed [('versioning no contents', 'new-31')]
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> that was just cleaning up quilt stuff
<kenvandine> i'll fix it up in the morning :)
<kenvandine> i gotta get away from the computer for now... good night all!
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, sounds good. nite
<bcurtiswx> im heading out too nite all
<robert_ancell> pitti, did you work out that gtk+ compile crash?  I'm still getting it on the latest version
<RAOF> What's this about SRUs waiting in the queue?  I flushed the queues yesterday! âº
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> GNOME 3.4.2 is out, thats what. :)
<jbicha> desrt: how do those per-session gsettings overrides work?
<jasoncwarner_> RAOF TheMuso robert_ancell bryceh meeting reminder https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-05-15
<jasoncwarner_> please add your agenda items
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, no page there?
<TheMuso> Yeah I saw the same thing earlier.
<jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: hmm...wonder where EU folk put it...one sec
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, I just made a new entry
<jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: ok
<bryceh> heh
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, I counted up the bugs on that multi-monitor blueprint.  We got to 66%.
<TheMuso> So given its only been a few days since UDS, I have no agenda items.
<RAOF> Likewise :)
<bryceh> RAOF, well we could chat about the LTS point release ppa
<RAOF> We could, true.
<bryceh> RAOF, rickspencer had asked if we could have a PPA ready for testing within a week.  think that's possible?
<RAOF> I don't see why not.
<RAOF> Of course, that's kinda the point - to find out :)
<RAOF> I see that Maarten's done a couple of test PPAs, but I haven't checked out their contents yet.
<bryceh> RAOF, one thing we need to do is nail down the exact list of packages to be renamed
<bryceh> I have a start of a list in the xorg tools bzr tree you can look at
<RAOF> There seem to be a lot more -dev packages in there than I expected - do we actually need to backport all the protocol libraries?
<bryceh> those were all referenced somewhere in the xorg-server control or rules files
<RAOF> Or is this pessimistic - assuming that X might start using new features of things like libdbus?
<bryceh> if there are binary packages in xorg-server we don't intend to provide in updates, that could help drop a lot of those
 * RAOF eyes xvfb
<bryceh> yeah I don't know what to do about some of the third party dependencies.  if there's any you think we should mull over particularly, maybe a discussion on ubuntu-x@ would be in order
<RAOF> bryceh: I think all the things which need the protocol libraries (as opposed to the protocol *headers*) are things like xdmx, xephyr, etc.  They're not going to see *any* commits between now and 14.04, so they won't need newer libraries.
<bryceh> okie
<RAOF> I therefore think that building against the 12.04 libx*-dev packages will be fine, and we won't need to backport/rename them.
<RAOF> The only thing we're likely to miss out on then is integration tests - *they're* likely to need the protocol libs, and will be testing new protocol.  We'd be able to not build those tests, though.
<bryceh> right
<RAOF> I'll send a message to ubuntu-x@
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-16
<robert_ancell> RAOF, is this obsolete? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-rootless-x
<RAOF> Maybe? - it's still possible, and kinda desirable.
<RAOF> Let's say yes - it's something that we'll get for free post-system-compositor.
<desrt> jbicha: there are no per-session gsettings overrides
<desrt> jbicha: but dconf profiles
<robert_ancell> does anyone know if there is a particular reason why we're shipping the old gdm?
<jbicha> robert_ancell: the same reason Debian is :)
<robert_ancell> jbicha, which is having trouble making it work?
<mbiebl> gdm is a major pita with its many patches
<mbiebl> and Np237 got stuck half-way through updating gdm to use dconf instead of it's custom gsettings override mechanism
<robert_ancell> yeah, I'm wondering if we can just drop all the patches, update to the latest and assume the majority are using lightdm
<jbicha> robert_ancell: it doesn't work without some patches
<robert_ancell> jbicha, what are the patches for?
<mbiebl> desrt: dconf profiles, interesting
<mbiebl> do I need a specific version of gdm or dconf to make that work? Is there some documentation how to use that?
<mbiebl> desrt: I remember Np237 working on dconf patches wrt gdm
<robert_ancell> desrt, which package do I file a bug against for application menus not working with the global menu?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: indicator-application is responsible for managing global applicatino menubar duties.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, ta
<TheMuso> np
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> Hey didrocks!
<didrocks> good morning RAOF
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> Morning pitti!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: urgh, that new behaviour would be due to compiling? funny
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti
<pitti> hey RAOF, hey didrocks
<pitti> slept much longer today; I guess some jetlag remainders plus that ubuflu
<didrocks> oh ubuflu?
<pitti> yeah, some things ARE reliable :)
<RAOF> FLUvax!
<RAOF> Although I haven't got ubuflu in the past, either, so attributing the lack of ubuflu this time to my flu vaccination is clearly incorrect âº
<TheMuso> .me waves to Europe folks.
<TheMuso> I usually have a few early nights in the days after returning, and I'm usually back on track by the end of the week.
<BigWhale> Morning.
<seb128> hey
<pitti> hey seb128
<thumper> hey seb128
<thumper> :)
<thumper> three for three
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<seb128> thumper, enough hey for you ;-)
<pitti> seb128: quite okay, although I caught a bit of ubuflu :/
<seb128> :-(
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> lut didrocks, ouais, et toi ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va :)
<seb128> RAOF, pitti: who can I bribe to do some SRUs review today? ;-)
<pitti> RAOF desperately wants to, I can feel it from here!
<seb128> not sure if everybody has tomorrow off and swap friday but I would like some of the updates in proposed for the w.e
<seb128> hehe
<mlankhorst> I have tomorrow off, didn't know you could swap national holidays :P
<pitti> I have tomorrow off as well, but will work on Friday
<pitti> have to help my sister with moving
<seb128> I will be there friday as well
<seb128> I think Didier is swapping friday?
<mlankhorst> suspicious how many people there are on steam playing diablo 3 atm O.o
<seb128> well anyway seems like some people will be around ;-)
<seb128> "there"?
<mlankhorst> steam loves to crash so im not signing out from it if it finally logs in :P
<seb128> it's maybe a way to tell you it's time to work and not to play? ;-)
<mlankhorst> code's compiling
 * pitti thinks mlankhorst indulged http://xkcd.com/303/ too much :)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I'm swapping friday
<seb128> pitti, ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I'm looking at the retracers now; apparently I used some Python 2.7-isms in recent trunk
<seb128> pitti, ok
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: a bit ufuflu-ed, but otherwise okay; how about yourself?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, pretty much the same :)
<didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson :)
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<thumper> hey didrocks
<didrocks> hey thumper ;)
<thumper> I hope it is warm where you are
<thumper> snow on the hills here
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<didrocks> yeah, the weather is a bit fresh for the time, but it's still acceptable :)
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<seb128> pitti, can you move unity-greeter to -updates, I just marked the remaining non verified bug as verification-done (sorry for being pushy but it's the bug where the login hangs for some users and I would like to see it fixes in -updates)
<pitti> seb128: great, thanks! doing
<seb128> pitti, danke!
 * RAOF can SRU review tomorrow
<seb128> RAOF, hey, had a good trip back?
<seb128> RAOF, SRU reviews would be welcome ;-)
<RAOF> seb128: Yeah, mostly.
<RAOF> seb128: I flushed that queue only yesterday! :P
<seb128> RAOF, tomorrow is an holiday don't forget to not work :p
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<RAOF> seb128: Where is tomorrow a holiday?
<pitti> hey tkamppeter
<seb128> RAOF, http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/ says it's in australia as well
<seb128> not .nz though, no luck for robert_ancell
<tkamppeter> pitti, can you upload cups-filters to Debian and Quantal, I have released 1.0.18.
<pitti> tkamppeter: sure, doing now
<seb128> RAOF, sorry, "where" -> almost everywhere but .nz it seems
<seb128> RAOF, well from that webpage, which might be wrong ;-)
<pitti> tkamppeter: bzr has 1.0.17, but that's already from April 20; did you forget to push or so?
<RAOF> seb128: Yeah, I don't know what the author of that webpage was smoking.  âAscention dayâ?  Really?
<seb128> it's a religious holiday, at least in most European countries
<pitti> traditionally in Germany, you grab your friends and a box of beer, then go for a combined hike/pissup experience
<seb128> lol
<pitti> we usually reduced the beer and did a bike tour
<tkamppeter> pitti, correct version is committed now.
<pitti> I'll remember those days when I'll break my back with moving my sister's furniture from one town to another
<seb128> with some luck the weather will be nice tomorrow
<seb128> it's sort of grey and windy today
<pitti> tkamppeter: splendid
<seb128> pitti, oh, right, you are helping your sister to move instead :-(
<seb128> I can see how the biking is a better perspective!
 * seb128 downgrade gtk version and rebuild and curse at gtk upstream
<seb128> "let's rewrite GtkIconView between 3.4.2 and 3.4.3, who cares if it has regressions, it's a rewrite it clearly must be better"
<mlankhorst> cnd: ping?
<mlankhorst> seb128: .. they really did that?
<seb128> mlankhorst, he's on U.S time, i.e probably sleeping
<seb128> mlankhorst, yes
<mlankhorst> o.o
<RAOF> I particularly liked how they took the effort to break the accelerator ABI in GTK+ *2.0* recently.
<pitti> tkamppeter: done
<seb128> mlankhorst, http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/sources/gtk+/3.4/gtk+-3.4.3.news
<seb128> "* GtkIconView:
<seb128>  - The sizing and layout has been rewritten"
<seb128>  
<mlankhorst> sigh
<pitti> awesome. not.
<mlankhorst> Not even a rationale for why it's needed?
<seb128> I talked to mclasen about it yesterday, he said the old code was really buggy and hopefully the new one is better though he would not be surprised if there are some regressions
<RAOF> Obviously the old one was broken!
<seb128> he mentioned gnome-document as being visibly impacted by the old code brokeness
<pitti> known buggy >> unknown broken
<seb128> indeed, I tried to argue with him on that but it seems we have different definition of "stable"
<seb128> shrug, anyway for now I avoid .3, I backport the few commits it had out of this rewrite
<mlankhorst> still, abi change in gtk 2.0 is impressive..
<seb128> in fact I tried .3, it visibly changes the layout, like gnome-control-center gets scrollbars by default with it
<seb128> yeah, not sure why they keep doing changes to gtk2
<seb128> they already did quite some screwing up when they added the new fileselector to it last year
<asac> cyphermox: are you doing connman too?
<seb128> oh, a asac
<seb128> asac, hey
<seb128> asac, nobody is doing connman nowadays I think
<asac> seb128: noone packaging? who was last to upload :)
 * asac hopes it wasnt him
<seb128> asac, you? ;-)
<seb128> asac, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/connman/+changelog
<asac> oh no :((
<seb128> asac, no real maintainer though, feel free to update it if you want the new version though
<seb128> you should exerce your upload rights ;-)
<asac> i am looking for someone to delegate a review to :)
<asac> yeah i know
<asac> i will check with cyphermox if he can do a pre-review :)
<seb128> you can probably bribe him into doing one ;-)
<didrocks> third kernel panic of the day :(
<smspillaz> didrocks: I heard the new thinkpads look good :)
<didrocks> smspillaz: already ordered, waiting for it :)
<smspillaz> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<smspillaz> I was going to order one ... can you order one now ?
<smspillaz> I thought they haven't come out yet
<didrocks> I'm taking a x220, that's more than sufficient for my usage :)
<smspillaz> ahh
 * smspillaz was waiting for the x230 or wanted to see what the x1c's battery was like
<pitti> tkamppeter: can you please have a look at debian bug 670055 ?
<ubot2> Debian bug 670055 in cups-filters "cups-filters: Printing a text file fails when Liberation is the only TrueType font available" [Critical,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/670055
<bcurtiswx> good morning
<cnd> mlankhorst, pong
<bcurtiswx> have there been any discussions about bringing spotify to Ubuntu repos?
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, it isn't open source is it?
<bcurtiswx> yeah prob not (not sure though)
<kenvandine> it could go into software center
<bcurtiswx> true
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, reviewing empathy now
<seb128> didrocks, hey, do you use deja-dup? do you backup a lot of your datas with it?
<didrocks> seb128: quite extensively yeah
<didrocks> seb128: never had to recover hopefully though :)
<seb128> didrocks, is the io hit while it's backuping bad? i.e do you feel it on performances?
 * mterry looks inquisitively at didrocks
<seb128> just wondering, with my ssd I can't really tell, I figured you would have a better clue about that with your slow disk
<pitti> you can't?
<pitti> I find the effect even worse on my SSD
<mterry> pitti, fascinating.  You feel the system gets sluggish during a backup?
<didrocks> seb128: well, I really do feel it on my slow hd, yeah
<seb128> pitti, I didn't notice any io slowness issue since I've my ssd no
<didrocks> seb128: so I have to do that on week-ends only
<pitti> mterry: not particularly during backup (I still use my own rsnapshot based system), but during heavy IO such as rsyncing a CD image or copying a large file
<seb128> didrocks, ok, thanks, that's what I was looking for, mterry is thinking about changing the frequency to daily and drop the combo ui
<didrocks> but on my hd, my laptop is totally unusable
<seb128> didrocks, I was wondering if daily wouldn't be an issue on slow disk if that leads to system slownesses
<seb128> mterry, so I guess performances on slow disks is something we might watch for
 * mterry should partner with an SSD manufacturer and upsell them during a backup
<seb128> lol
<kenvandine> hehe
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, find the cause of your bzr breakage? was it me?
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, didn't really check... i just wiped out my branch and did a fresh checkout
<kenvandine> and all seemed fine
<bcurtiswx> OK cool
<cyphermox> seb128: asac: yes, I want to update connman in Debian, trying to do this today or tomorrow
<cyphermox> asac: so yes I can review
<asac> cyphermox: cool
<seb128> cyphermox, ok
<asac> cyphermox: let me send you the details
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, how are you btw? ;-)
<seb128> asac, we missed you at UDS btw ;-)
<cyphermox> dpm: just sent you code for getting SSIDs from NM via pygi; I'll try to update the examples upstream to provide that and ship it in the package
<cyphermox> seb128: hey, doing ok
<asac> seb128: :(
<asac> seb128: don't tell me
<cyphermox> I woke up with a sore throat, but I'm hoping it's nothing
<pitti> hey cyphermox
<pitti> cyphermox: I caught some ubuflu as well; seems that's the one thing that keeps haunting us :(
<pitti> can we please QA this away?
<dpm> cyphermox, ooooh, wow, that's awesome, thanks a lot (commenting on the code you sent, not on the sore throat part ;)
<cyphermox> pitti: no conclusive proof it's ubuflu yet, I'm not really sick.
<cyphermox> (yet_
<pitti> cyphermox: crossing fingers!
<cyphermox> indeed
<highvoltage> we have 3 rickspencers now!? awesome.
<pitti> rickspencer3: wb
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<cyphermox> asac: you were talking about connman in Debian, right?
<bcurtiswx> rickspencer3, hey :)
<rickspencer3> hi bcurtiswx
<didrocks> 5th kernel panic of the day :(
<pitti> didrocks: WTH?
<didrocks> pitti: still the same story than for the past 3 months. Seems to be way worse today though
<pitti> didrocks: it's smelling that you ordered a new one!
<smspillaz> didrocks: use nouveau
<didrocks> pitti: maybe, some kind of revenge ;)
<smspillaz> didrocks: that will fix /everything/
<didrocks> and will leak everything else
<didrocks> sorry dude, I try to test what people use :p
<pitti> actually, I do know people using nouveau
 * smspillaz puts up his hand
<smspillaz> of course, you'll just have to deal with typing on a furnace
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have uploaded an SRU of cups-filters which is rather urgent and also marked all bugs fixed by it as such. Can you approve it into -updates before leaving for the long weekends. Thanks.
<smspillaz> I got an external keyboard for that :P
<pitti> tkamppeter: I'm at work on Friday
 * rickspencer3 drums fingers waiting for *qt4* updates
<pitti> tkamppeter: I'm trying to not do so many SRU stuff any more (I already spent an hour today), RAOF will do a round tomorrow
<tkamppeter> pitti, but if possible, try to do it today, so that people start testing tomorrow.
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, Is it possible to limit the minimum width and height of the empathy contact list ?
<kenvandine> it's possible...
<bcurtiswx> There's a weird thing happening with it. I'm not sure if it's our changes or empathy. There's a bug where the contact list width gets too small and the status changer disappears
<bcurtiswx> there was a bug quite a few releases ago where this was fixed, upstream and here..
<bcurtiswx> Bug #538963
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 538963 in empathy "reducing the width of contact list disappears combobox" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538963
<bcurtiswx> gnome bug 583317
<ubot2> Gnome bug 583317 in Contact List "throbber/status message input widget disapper when contact list too narrow" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=583317
<kenvandine> oh that is weird
<bcurtiswx> its a regression, but IDK which end
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, it doesn't look like it could be from our patches
<kenvandine> but feels a bit like a gtk bug
<kenvandine> the selector should keep the window from getting that small
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, yeah thats my thought
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, cassidy can't reproduce the issue on his end
<kenvandine> interesting
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, can you confirm this behavior on Quantal ?
<bcurtiswx> i can on precise
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> confirmed
<bcurtiswx> bug #999628 has a video included and i'm getting that confirmed
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 999628 in granite "Apps fail to preserve maximized state" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999628
<bcurtiswx> sorry thats the dyslexic part of me
<bcurtiswx> bug #999268
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 999268 in empathy "Status changer gets lost on too small size" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999268
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, thx for the merge
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, thank you!
<dobey> oh that's what the bug is
<dobey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/889609
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 889609 in empathy "Empathy toolbar is empty" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dobey> bcurtiswx, kenvandine: ^^ bug i filed a long while ago about it :)
<pitti> Sweetshark: ok to remove the transitional openoffice.org package now?
<Sweetshark> pitti: I wondered about that yesterday, but yeah -- we should do that ...
 * Sweetshark in TDF BoD call.
<bcurtiswx> dobey, thx ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, I'm good thanks, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, sorry I got sidetracked, I was pinged about:
<seb128> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-desktop-n-firefox-pgo-builds
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ^ is that on the q list on purpose? if it is could you or whoever is working on it move the current workitems to the workitems section
<seb128> chrisccoulson, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-firefox-translations-in-launchpad ... for q as well?
<chrisccoulson> oh, they don't really need to be for q. but i'll sort the work items out
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well are they still revelant,do you want them tracked?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i guess they can still be tracked. but they're the sort of things to work on when i get spare time
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, that's fine, they a "low" priority
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I was mostly wondering if they were still relevant, seems they are
<didrocks> ok, time for dancing and evening :) will be off tomorrow and Friday. See you on Monday everyone!
<Blah1> anyone know if there's a fix for xchat + unity in which my desktop thinks that xchat isn't running so I can't alt+tab to it?  I've only gotten around the problem by installing xchat-notification so that I can use the envelope icon in the systray.
<smspillaz> Blah1: someone on dx is working on it ... give it some time, we just got back from UDs
<Blah1> UDs?
<smspillaz> UDS
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, would a .ui file control GTK Window min width?
<Blah1> oh cool.  glad to hear you're aware of it.
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, perhaps, but i don't think that is where the problem is
<kenvandine> actually maybe it is
<bcurtiswx> it sets a min_request
<kenvandine> right, for the selector ?
<kenvandine> i would think the window shouldn't be resizable smaller than the selector
<kenvandine> which is why i think it might be a gtk bug
<kenvandine> and, we aren't patching any of that code
<kenvandine> so if cassidy can't reproduce it... maybe it is because his gtk isn't exposing that problem
<kenvandine> maybe he is running gtk from git or something
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, yes i agree
<bcurtiswx> well, idk about that
<kenvandine> or maybe we have a patch to gtk that is breaking it :)
<bcurtiswx> that could be
<bcurtiswx> should I switch bug to GTK, i agree in that it's the root cause
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i am going to test it on oneiric over lunch
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i'll ping you in a bit
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, OK
 * kenvandine -> lunch
<dobey> kenvandine, bcurtiswx: what's interesting is that i think it also only breaks under unity
<bcurtiswx> dobey, I'm testing without any patches shortly. We think it's GTK
<dobey> bcurtiswx: it /could/ be a gtk module as well (overlay scrollbars?) or the global menu stuff
<bcurtiswx> dobey, not our patches
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i've figured it out
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, and the culprit it?
<kenvandine> the menu's restrict the minimum width, so with appmenu those aren't in the window
<bcurtiswx> is*
<kenvandine> s/menu's/menus/
 * bcurtiswx wonders how many apps make the menu restrict the minimum width
<kenvandine> i don't think it was intentional
<bcurtiswx> well i'm not blaming the apps
 * kenvandine has a patch
<dobey> hmm
<cyphermox> brb
<dobey> what the heck is this: http://ubuntuone.com/6oD7q9VXAqBUnLzYfC4FRx
<kenvandine> dobey, easter egg?
<dobey> bad software at least
 * dobey blames pitti
<jalcine> lol
<jalcine> it's a nice error page
 * jalcine likes.
<kenvandine> jbicha, are you working on syncing gnome-keyring?
<kenvandine> it doesn't work since the gcr sync in quantal
<jbicha> kenvandine: I was planning to, tonight or tomorrow
<kenvandine> jbicha, ok, then i won't bother :)
<jbicha> ok :)
<kenvandine> jbicha, seahorse as well :-D
<jbicha> yup, it shouldn't be too bad, they were both in the GNOME3 PPA already
<kenvandine> cool
<kenvandine> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, hello
<seb128> jbicha, hey, hum breaking gnome-keyring is not cool
<seb128> jbicha, I would have synced gcr if you told me that it was going to break the distro
<seb128> wouldn't
<seb128> jbicha, we try to avoid doing changes that are breaking things, better to get whatever needs to be updated ready before asking a sync...
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey
<robert_ancell> seb128, hello
<seb128> robert_ancell, you got email spammed today ;-)
 * kenvandine goes to do something that doesn't involve a mouse and a keyboard... bbl!
<robert_ancell> seb128, hah!
<robert_ancell> seb128, btw you are doing the shotwell sru right?
<dobey> what's the over/under that kenvandine is going to play wii with the kids? :P
<seb128> robert_ancell, done already, check the unapproved queue before uploading anything please ;-)
<kenvandine> wii is for after swim team practice :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, I did most of the GNOME updates that had changes
<dobey> heh
<robert_ancell> seb128, unapproved queue?
<seb128> robert_ancell, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+queue?queue_state=1
<robert_ancell> seb128, you're doing precise - I'm not touching that.  You have to bug me for backports :)
<jbicha> seb128: well we needed gcr before we could push gnome-keyring & seahorse; we could have synced all 3 I guess & apply the Ubuntu diff afterwards
<seb128> jbicha, well your call, just don't break the distro for > 1 day, like either get gcr built locally and get gnome-keyring etc ready for upload before you ask for the sync or request sync for the lot
<seb128> jbicha, there is little interest to break g-k for everyone when you could as well locally build it and get ready to upload in batch
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw pull gtk vcs if you work on it, I broke it for you (merged on Debian)
<jbicha> sure, I'll fix it in the next hour or so
<seb128> robert_ancell, they dropped the static built and simplified a bit the build and .install
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, can you compile it?  I had the same issue as in precise where I get logged out at the end of the compile process
<seb128> jbicha, thanks, the "or tomorrow" was made me comment
<seb128> robert_ancell, compile works fine here
<seb128> robert_ancell, I guess your box doesn't like the testsuit, pitti had similar issues, I wish somebody having the issue would track that down
<robert_ancell> seb128, but you didn't upload?  Is there a problem?
<jbicha> yeah, "tomorrow"'s not a good idea
<seb128> robert_ancell, comment the make check call I guess
<seb128> robert_ancell, 3 issues
<seb128> 1- I'm still on precise so I don't have the new glib to build 3.5, I built 3.4.2 with my changes
<seb128> 2- I hit an issue where build-arch target is not called, so the .install.in -> .install is not done, which might be fixed in new debhelper,cdbs
<robert_ancell> * debian/patches/100_overlay_scrollbar_loading.patch:
<robert_ancell>     -dropped, the new scollbar code doesn't require that hack \o/
<seb128> (I called the target manually to finish the build)
<seb128> 3- I didn't know if you did hold off the upload for a reason
<seb128> robert_ancell, indeed ;-)
<robert_ancell> ok, that sounds do-able then :)
<robert_ancell> building now, I may disappear in 30 mins though
<seb128> robert_ancell, comment the check line in the rules for your builds
<seb128> it's make check which creates the issue
<robert_ancell> yeah
<robert_ancell> seb128, can we update g-d-u now?
<seb128> gnome-disk-utility?
<seb128> that requires udisk2 no? pitti had it ready in the ppa for precise, I guess it's just a matter to get that in
<jbicha> we need udisks2 to be uploaded first
<robert_ancell> and e-d-s?
<robert_ancell> actually, the main question is "can we drop all the tracking stable packages in versions?"
<robert_ancell> (gnome-session, gnome-keyring, seahorse, e-d-s, evolution)
<robert_ancell> seb128, Can you remember the 1s delay in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-login-speed-improvements?  Is that just the ecryptfs delay? (I don't know of any ongoing 1s delay problem)
<seb128> robert_ancell, yes you can drop the stable tracking
<seb128> robert_ancell, no, it's http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/boot-speed/acer-veriton-01/2012-04-25_16-13-23/bootchart.png
<seb128> the qa lab charts, I doubt they use encryption
<robert_ancell> seb128, is that autologin?
<seb128> I guess so
<seb128> I don't know much about the qa setupe
<robert_ancell> some big io blocking thing
<seb128> wpa_supplicant is busy at the same time
<seb128> dunno if that's related
<seb128> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/boot-speed/acer-veriton-02/2012-04-25_16-13-23/bootchart.png is the one we looked I think
<seb128> it has a 1 second wait without io
<seb128> not sure but I guess they are autologin without encryption
<seb128> wouldn't make sense to autobootchart a config that requires password
<robert_ancell> yeah
<robert_ancell> what was e-d-s blocked on?  (I'm opening bugs on the versions page so we know what we're blocked by"
<seb128> robert_ancell, you can unblock everything
<seb128> robert_ancell, it was blocked on "evo wants to transition to gsettings and webkit in one cycle and we know how buggy evo transition tends to be"
<robert_ancell> ok
<seb128> they did drop half of that and only did eds to gsettings
<seb128> but that's enough to change a bunch of soname and create quite some work
<seb128> we can take on that this cycle though so go for it ;-)
<jbicha> and insufficient time & testing for Evolution/EDS
<seb128> right
<seb128> ok, on that time to call it a day
<seb128> 'night everyone
<robert_ancell> seb128, laters
<robert_ancell> jbicha, hey, I'm getting:
<robert_ancell> dh_install -plibgtk-3-0  --sourcedir=debian/install/shared
<robert_ancell> cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp/debian/settings.ini': No such file or directory
<robert_ancell> is the settings.ini correctly listed in the .install file?  It seems to be looking for a build version
<robert_ancell> built
<jbicha> um... all I did was add an extra line to the already existing settings.ini
<jbicha> what are you using to build? pbuilder?
<robert_ancell> jbicha, bzr-buildpackage
<robert_ancell> oh
<robert_ancell> you didn't add it
<robert_ancell> hmm
<jbicha> it builds here, using sbuild, (last time I tried was 3 weeks ago when I made my change)
<robert_ancell> the .install file confuses me - when do you have to add debian/tmp to the front of the files and when can you avoid them?
<jbicha> you don't need debian/tmp any more with debhelper compat 8
<jbicha> everything core GNOME should be compat 8 now
<dobey> jbicha: i don't think you need it with 7 either
<jbicha> oh I guess I can just sync seahorse from Debian, groovy
<mbiebl> robert_ancell: if you explicitely set --sourcedir, it looks for the file debian/install/shared/debian/tmp/debian/settings.ini
<mbiebl> easiest way is to cp via debian/rules
<mbiebl> (in this particular case)
<mbiebl> robert_ancell:  see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=666741
<ubot2> Debian bug 666741 in debhelper "dh_install: fallback to . when --sourcedir is used" [Wishlist,Open]
<robert_ancell> mbiebl, cheers
<mbiebl> robert_ancell: I know that copying the file via debian/rules is a bit inconvenient
<mbiebl> but the .install files were so cluttered without using --sourcedir
<robert_ancell> mbiebl, so which rule in debian/rules should do the copying?
<mbiebl> depends on which binary package this file is supposed to be installed
<mbiebl> see http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-gnome/desktop/unstable/gtk%2B3.0/debian/rules?view=markup
<mbiebl> line 130 as an example
<robert_ancell> ah, so I should remove it from the .install and just run it in binary-install/$(SHARED_PKG):: then
<mbiebl> which binary package is it?
<robert_ancell> libgtk3.0-0
<mbiebl> yeah, binary-install/$(SHARED_PKG):: is correct then
<robert_ancell> mbiebl, thanks
<jasoncwarner_> morning AU folk.
<MrChrisDruif> AU?
<chrisccoulson> hi jasoncwarner_!
<jasoncwarner_> hey chrisccoulson :) up late again?
<chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, yeah, although it's not that late just yet ;)
 * RAOF wonders why today he's booted without any pointing devices.
<RAOF> Ah.  Because bluetooth isn't working, and the USB mouse isn't actually plugged in.  Mystery solved
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, hey
 * TheMuso finally gets online with quantal.
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-17
<jbicha> kenvandine: seahorse 3.4 is working great here now
<TheMuso> /cr/c
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: hey
<cyphermox> got your email, starting to fix this up now
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, ta
<cyphermox> robert_ancell:  uploaded, building now
<cyphermox> I'll look at gnome-phone-manager tomorrow ;)
 * cyphermox signs off, attempts signing in to D3 :P
<RAOF> Grrrr.
<RAOF> gnome-keyring-daemon changing its interface out from under the libraries is annoying.
<TheMuso> RAOF: YOu mean things like the ssh agent no longer working kinda change?
<dobey> oh fun. i bet it breaks ubuntu-sso-client again too
<RAOF> TheMuso: Correct.
<TheMuso> Yeah, fun times.
<RAOF> TheMuso: And all my launchpadlib stuff not being able to find my credentials.  And evolution not finding my credentials, and seahorse showing a very odd view of my passwords.
<TheMuso> oh ouch.
<jbicha> RAOF: oh you don't like the new seahorse?
<RAOF> jbicha: I'd prefer a seahorse that works :)
<jbicha> seahorse works here...
<RAOF> Am I the victim of mirror skew?  What seahorse version are you talking about?
<jbicha> seahorse 3.4.1-1; it's a major redesign
 * TheMuso sees a gnome-keyring update after syncing his local mirror.
 * RAOF adds archive.ubuntu.com to sources.list
<jbicha> ah, yeah, gnome-keyring, seahorse, & gcr needed to be updated at the same time
<TheMuso> Ah yes! New gnome-keyring sees ssh agent working again.
<RAOF> Oh, wow.  They really have changed seahorse, haven't they.
<TheMuso> grrr something mucks up metacity settings at every reboot for my session. I have to delete the metacity gconf settings files to restore proper behavior.
<RAOF> Would it be too much to ask for GNOME stable releases to really only fix bugs and not change behaviour?
<TheMuso> THis is in quantal...
 * RAOF is processing the SRU queue
<TheMuso> ah ok.
<TheMuso> I knew that, but was not sure if you were talking about my comment.
<TheMuso> But stable GNOME updates changing behaviour has happened before afaik.
<TheMuso> I don't know how it was dealt with though.
<RAOF> Laney: You're not core-dev?!
<Laney> RAOF: Indeed. I got the cli-mono packageset which meant that I could upload everything I needed to touch often in main.
<RAOF> Fair enough.
<Laney> However that is probably changing :P
<geser> RAOF: he knows how the DMB works and avoids to start his core-dev application :)
<Laney> actually I did start it the other day
<Laney> you might be able to guess the URL
<geser> oh
<Laney> I still have a healthy fear of the DMB though â¦
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, now to break firefox in quantal!
<MrChrisDruif> Go ahead...I'm using Chromium ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i am more than happy to break that too
<chrisccoulson> well, perhaps if i cared about it ;)
<MrChrisDruif> Ghehe, go ahead ;-) I've got still more back-up browsers =P
<MrChrisDruif> Not the most sophisticated, but "workable" ^_^
<MrChrisDruif> http://lifehacker.com/5911058/the-avengers-desktop
<MrChrisDruif> Note: UBUNTU desktop
<dobey> heh, whenever people do that sort of stuff, it always looks good until they start actually running applications that do more than background status monitoring :)
<dobey> well, s/good/cool/
<bcurtiswx> now that folks 0.6.9-1 is in ubuntu quantal, there is a fix in there that should make it into Precise. Do I cheery pick that fix and patch folks in precise and add an -ubuntu1 to it ?
<bcurtiswx> cherry*
<Laney> yeah, that works
<bcurtiswx> mdeslaur, thanks for the sync btw :)
<Laney> as long as precise < precise-proposed <= quantal
<geser> bcurtiswx: -2ubuntu0.1
<mdeslaur> bcurtiswx: np
<bcurtiswx> geser, the quantal version is 0.6.9-1 i'm not understanding why that goes to -2
<bcurtiswx> in precise
<Laney> the precise version is -2
<Laney> so -2ubuntusomething
<Laney> 0.1 or 1 are both fine
<geser> bcurtiswx: precise has 0.6.8-2 and the usual next version for a SRU would be 0.6.8-2ubuntu0.1
<jbicha> or you could use 0.6.9-1~precise1 if you're just backporting from Debian/quantal
<bcurtiswx> geser, ah yes. I was staring at my rmadison and.. lets just say these pain killers may be working REALLY well :)
<bcurtiswx> mornin' kenvandine
<kenvandine> good morning
<bcurtiswx> ok im trying to pull lp:ubuntu/precise/folks but maybe since it was a sync thats not right because I received an error
<bcurtiswx> well branch would be the right term
<geser> that branch is the right one
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i am on it :)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, give me 5 minutes
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, im in no rush. I'm trying to do some data manupilation on lots of datasets which are each a half GB in size :)
<chrisccoulson> w00t, closed my first WI :-)
<chrisccoulson> so,i've nearly closed as many as last cycle already!
<bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson, adding a WI of "Fix typo in next WI" and subsequently closing it, doesn't count.. :P
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, in empathy does edit->preferences still have a checkbox that says "automatically connect on startup" in precise? (I'm at work on an older release)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, yes
<bcurtiswx> thx
<chrisccoulson> gah, ffs
<micahg> chrisccoulson: can you disable thumb2 on armel while you're at it? (or I can do it over the weekend otherwise)
<chrisccoulson> micahg, i disabled it last week
<micahg> oh, hrm
<micahg> I guess I'll have to dig at some point this cycle (shouldn't matter for older releases, so no rush)
<chrisccoulson> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-trunk.head/revision/1217
<micahg> chrisccoulson: right, I thought I saw that :), still seems to be unhappy, so probably just needs a patch somewhere, no rush though
<jbrett> anyone here want to help me triage an apparent gdk problem, so that I may file a more intelligent bug report than "mouse gets stuck"? :)  I guess I'll just explain, and then you can tell me to go to #ubuntu if asking here isn't appropriate..
<jbrett> so, since my 12.04 upgrade, at least a couple times a day, I'll get into this mode where the window I'm using seems to grab the focus, and won't let go.  I.e. I can move around the desktop, but I can't select or type into any other window.
<jbrett> whenever I click on another window, I get an entry in ~/.xsession-errors saying "Gdk-CRITICAL**: IA__gdk_window_get_events: assertion 'GDK_IS_WINDOW (window)' failed"
<jbrett> then two following "g_object_ref" and "g_object_unref" G_IS_OBJECT failed assertions, presumably from the same presumed object.
<jbrett> what component/package do I file this against?
<chrisccoulson> jbrett, if you run the particular application with G_DEBUG=fatal_criticals, that will make the application abort on those error messages
<chrisccoulson> then you can get a stacktrace
<chrisccoulson> (as described https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace)
<jbrett> hmm, ok.  I never know which application it's going to be, but I guess I can just run the whole desktop with that variable.
<jbrett> i.e. it's not application specific.  This time, it happened to occur while I was in xchat, so I can type this :)
<jbrett> sometimes it's chrome, sometimes it's gnome-terminal, etc...
<chrisccoulson> jbrett, sounds more like a compiz or unity bug then tbh ;)
<chrisccoulson> i thought it was just an issue with a specific application
<chrisccoulson> but if not, then that's more difficult ;)
<bryceh> yeah was going to say sounds like a window manager issue
<bryceh> jbrett, tried it with unity2d or gnome fallback?
<jbrett> yeah, it's not specific to compiz or unity though.  I tried killing unity/compiz and running metacity --replace, and the same thing happens in metacity after a few minutes.
<chrisccoulson> jbrett, how do you normally recover it?
<jbrett> so it's some underlying library thing, I guess, I just don't have a clue which library to start with.
<jbrett> I reboot :)
<jbrett> I'm tempted to blame the nvidia driver.
<chrisccoulson> jbrett, have you checked if there are any suspicious errors in dmesg?
<jbrett> yes, nothing in dmesg or syslog.
<chrisccoulson> :(
<chrisccoulson> that sucks
<jbrett> the only place I can find any errors that make sense is in ~/.xsession-errors.
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure what else to suggest. that's not really my area of expertise
<chrisccoulson> perhaps bryceh has some more ideas :)
<bryceh> well, xorg would be my next idea ;-)
<bryceh> so yeah, feel free to `ubuntu-bug xorg`, and if it's not xorg it can be moved from there
<jbrett> ok, I'll do that and see where it goes :)
<jbrett> thanks
<bryceh> jbrett, I hope it's not the nvidia driver though; that's obviously rather hard to fix...
<jbrett> no kidding.
<bryceh> if you do suspect -nvidia, try purging it and booting with just -nouveau
<jbrett> unfortunately, nouveau won't even recognize my card.
<jbrett> I'm running the identical config on another machine with nouveau, and don't see this problem, that's why I'm suspicious.
<bryceh> yep, well so much for that idea :-)
<jbrett> "identical config" means a 12.04 install with rsync'd /home -- obviously not completely identical, and different hardware..
<bryceh> well, it's not an issue we've had many reports on (that I know of), and if it was a widespread bug I'm sure people would be reporting it; sounds pretty annoying.  So it's likely something peculiar either with your hardware or your install (or just a really obscure bug)
<jbrett> yeah, I spent quite a while trying to figure out what was messed up with my config -- that's why I duplicated it on another machine.
<jbrett> but something could obviously be mucked up with the install/upgrade.
<bryceh> jbrett, yeah took a look thru all the nvidia reports we got for precise; none about mouse focus
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-18
<pitti> Good morning
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<tkamppeter> pitti, RAOF seems to not have done SRU work the last two days, can you approve my SRU? It is urgent, there are lots of complaints about PS printers not working.
<pitti> okay, I'll try
<pitti> well, he accepted my package anyway :)
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<chrisccoulson> sigh, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/105415508/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-i386.firefox_13.0~b4%2Bbuild1-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> hey
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm ok, still a bit sleepy but working on it through coffee ;-)
<chrisccoulson> it seems that i need a magic wand to make firefox build this week
<pitti> trouble with gcc 4.7?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - partly. but i'm hitting other problems after turning PGO on, that i didn't see locally
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks.
<seb128> is it me or is http://bugs.freedesktop.org not working?
<mlankhor1t> It's connected but not loading here afaict
<pitti> just found the same, http doesn't work either
<pitti> I grabbed the udisks2 tarball through ssh :/
 * pitti packaging udisks2 now
<seb128> mlankhor1t, pitti: thanks, so not just me
<seb128> pitti, udisks2 \o/
<seb128> smspillaz, did you device to triage all compiz bugs today or what? ;-)
<smspillaz> seb128: nope, a script did it for me :P
<smspillaz> seb128: sorry for the spam :P
<smspillaz> seb128: (just migrating all of the bugs over)
<seb128> smspillaz, migrating from where to where? no worry, I was just curious since you set settings and assigned some on the way, it didn't seem scripted
<smspillaz> seb128: like they say at Google - if it isn't automated, you're probably doing it wrong ;-)
<seb128> hehe
<smspillaz> seb128: I copied the assignment and status / priority from the old project
<smspillaz> launchpadlib is pretty fun for stuff like this
<smspillaz> only 100~ lines of python \o/
<seb128> smspillaz, what's the difference between compiz and compiz-core upstream projects?
<seb128> smspillaz, ignore that, just received your email
<smspillaz> :)
<seb128> smspillaz, I think you did it wrong though
<smspillaz> seb128: oh ?
<seb128> smspillaz, it would have been better to reassign than to add a new component, i.e now all bugs have compiz-core and compiz components
<smspillaz> seb128: sure - I considered this, although I decided that it would be better if the script was nondestructive
<seb128> smspillaz, don't be afraid of destroying bugs ;-)
<pitti> but reassigning a bug to the correct component is not destructive
<pitti> you can always revert it with equal effort, and if the bug is not in compiz, it should not have a task in compiz
<smspillaz> pitti: all the bugs which were compiz-* bugs are now effectively compiz bugs (since the branches were joined together)
<smspillaz> pitti: perhaps we can invalidate all the old bugs, I just thought it would be better to add new tasks for now before touching the old ones
<seb128> well now it's done anyway
<seb128> but I would have reassigned rather doing also affect to add a new line to the bugs
<smspillaz> I didn't think you could reassign, only 'affects' and marking invalid the old task
<seb128> smspillaz, it would be cool if you could script putting all compiz bugs not changed for > 1 year to incomplete asking to try with compiz 0.9
<smspillaz> seb128: I think we already did that with the 0.8 bugs didn't we ?
<seb128> there is probably a lot of noise in those bugs
<smspillaz> seb128: in any event, most of the ones assigned to compiz-core are 0.9 bugs
<seb128> smspillaz, compiz (ubuntu) has 1077 bugs, 479 tagged compiz-0.9
<smspillaz> re: noise, I agree, maybe we should clean them out
<pitti> seb128: how urgently do you want udisks2? i. e. I'm uploading to experimental now, do you want to wait for Debian source NEW, or would you like to source-NEW it in Ubuntu today and sync later?
<seb128> pitti, I'm not in an hurry, I think robert_ancell was looking for it
<seb128> pitti, let's wait over the w.e and sync is on monday if they didn't?
<pitti> sure
<seb128> thanks
<fredp> pitti: I'll be really happy to have jhbuild get more robust, don't hesitate to file enhancement requests, or bug reports, and patches, of course, you'll be welcomed.
<pitti> fredp: thanks! I will
<pitti> fredp: as a first step I thought about some "auto-fallback" mode, i. e. when a build fails, try distclean first, and then a complete new checkout
<pitti> fredp: so that you can run an automatic jenkins instance in this mode, without having to clean up obsolete file dependencies or stale .Tpo files all the time, etc.
<fredp> that's indeed the kind of thing that would help a lot.
<pitti> fredp: would that be something you'd accept?
<pitti> I'll file a bug about it and think about some good design for this
<fredp> cool, thanks
<pitti> (not today, though, I still have some weeks of catching up to do)
<fredp> no hurry, just wanted to welcome you.
<pitti> fredp: thanks!
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, that sucks. the crash that occurs in the firefox build is not reproducible at all locally :(
<sewardj> does anybody know who the ubuntu packager/maintainer for firefox is?
<ogra_> sewardj, do you plan to send him flowers or money ? surely your question has more background than just wanting to know who it is, how about you ask the actual question ;)
<chrisccoulson> ogra_, i appreciate money more than flowers ;)
<ogra_> haha
<chrisccoulson> sewardj, yeah, that might be me, depending on the question, or the day of the week ;)
 * ogra_ thinks that gets relative as soon as you recieve a flower worth more than money ;)
<ogra_> imagine a massive golden tulip
<ogra_> :)
<chrisccoulson> can i use it to buy beer?
<sewardj> chrisccoulson: not sure about that
<ogra_> after bringin it to a back i guess you can ... depending on the bank and their policies of paying customers in beer indeed
<ogra_> s7back/bank/
<sewardj> chrisccoulson: on 10.04 LTS, I am now having problems building mozilla-central
<chrisccoulson> sewardj, what sort of problem?
<sewardj> chrisccoulson: (x86_64 10.04 that is).  Either the compiler segfaults, or the resulting firefox executable segfaults
<chrisccoulson> sewardj, did that only start recently?
<sewardj> chrisccoulson: yes, that started about maybe a month ago (gcc 4.4.3 segfaulting).
<sewardj> chrisccoulson: then I thought a fix was pushed for it in 10.04.4
<sewardj> but it still segfaults
<chrisccoulson> oh
<chrisccoulson> 1 second
<chrisccoulson> actually, never mind :/
<sewardj> chrisccoulson: do you know anything relevant to this?  it's a nuisance not to be able to use the system gcc on 10.04.4 to build firefox
<ogra_> well, it was originally used for building it
<chrisccoulson> sewardj, not sure. do you build with PGO by any chance?
<sewardj> chrisccoulson: no, this is a normal non-PGO build
<chrisccoulson> we seem to be able to build the latest mozilla-central ok with the same compiler :/
<chrisccoulson> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa/+build/3496565
<sewardj> chrisccoulson: this is all a bit abstract.  let me get you some STR
<sewardj> chrisccoulson: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1644703
<sewardj> chrisccoulson: this is mozilla-release, but mozilla-central fails the same way
<chrisccoulson> sewardj, oh, i'd certainly expect to see this on mozilla-release, but the problematic patch is no longer on mozilla-central
<chrisccoulson> your tree is definitely up-to-date, isn't it?
<sewardj> hmm haven't tried m-c in the past week I guess
<chrisccoulson> sewardj, basically, you need to back out the investigation patch from https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=621446
<sewardj> chrisccoulson: so you're implying the c++ on 10.04.4 can't build mozilla-release?
<ubot2> Mozilla bug 621446 in Networking: HTTP "Crash [@ mozilla::net::HttpChannelParent::RecvRedirect2Verify ]" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]
<chrisccoulson> sewardj, ah, it was only backed out a couple of days ago: https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/d16947d62333
<chrisccoulson> i bet if you update mozilla-central, it will work :)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm
<chrisccoulson> actually, it should have worked for over a month (https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/c785549b6eb2)
<chrisccoulson> but it will definitely still fail on mozilla-release
<sewardj> chrisccoulson: thanks for the pointers.  I will try to build m-r after lunch.
<chrisccoulson> cool, hopefully it will work this time :)
<alf_> Hi! Is there a way to change the lightdm session from within a session for a user? I am changing the value in .dmrc, but as soon as I log out or restart lightdm .dmrc is reset to the previous session, i.e., my change is overwritten.
<seb128> alf_, the session is stored in accountsservice I think
<seb128> see org.freedesktop.Accounts SetXSession()
<alf_> seb128: Thanks!
<chrisccoulson> ok, this build failure is a total PITA now. i wish i could make it fail locally :(
<cyphermox> good morning!
<highvoltage> good morning cyphermox
<cyphermox> hey highvoltage
 * cyphermox reboots to enable biosdevname
<kenvandine> seb128, good afternoon!
<kenvandine> seb128, have you seen bug 1001229
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1001229 in gtk+3.0 "wrong icon after last 12.04 update" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001229
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, no I didn't until now
<kenvandine> i am pretty sure that commit is what broke it
<seb128> kenvandine, I don't have the bug here...
<seb128> weird
<kenvandine> not that weird
<kenvandine> are you plugged in?
<kenvandine> it varies depending on state
<seb128> I'm docked fully charged
<kenvandine> right
<kenvandine> unplug
<seb128> which seems to be the state listed in the bug?
<seb128> "when battery is fully charged & AC connected"
<kenvandine> yeah, i actually see the opposite :)
<seb128> can you try to do a build with that patch reverted?
<seb128> if you get the issue...
<kenvandine> i've gotten it on 2 precise installs and quantal
<seb128> lucky you ;-)
<kenvandine> undock and let it go to a discharging state
<seb128> I didn't try to undock
 * kenvandine has to head out in a couple minutes
<seb128> I don't want to do that now, something has a tendency to lock my laptop on lid state changes when docked
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> i'll kick off a build before i leave
<seb128> I will try later, I've to run in 15 minutes
<seb128> thanks
<kenvandine> ok, me too
<kenvandine> doctor's appointment
<seb128> it's not a blocker issue in any case
<kenvandine> see ya later!
<seb128> well it's enough to block moving to updates
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> but it can stay in proposed until monday
<chrisccoulson> ok, this is a complete nightmare. i can't think how i can debug this build crash now without access to the buildd :/
<chrisccoulson> seeing as it really isn't reproducible in any other environment i've created
<sewardj> chrisccoulson: that seems to work (re mozilla-release).  thanks.
<chrisccoulson> sewardj, excellent, that's good :)
<chrisccoulson> i've got my own build failure to figure out now :/
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, sounds like you are having a wonderful friday
 * kenvandine hides
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, yep!
 * Sweetshark just send a mail out asking desrt some confirmations about the lomenubar/gtk thingie. #blameitoncananda
<Sweetshark> </cartman voice>
<micahg> chrisccoulson: have you grabbed the buildd chroot?
<pitti> good night everyone, have a nice weekend!
<kenvandine> good night pitti!
<achiang> hello, i'm running into LP: #855556 ; seems like this could be worked around by not having the live session login the 'ubuntu' user on every VT. any opinions on that?
<achiang> another way of asking that question is: why is the ubuntu user logged into multiple VTs during the live session? what problem / use case is that solving?
<BigW> Ghoto/nautilus fails when copying files larger than 4GB from camera to desktop. Is this known?
<BigW> it seems to be gphoto .... will investigate ...
<rexis> cairo dock is pissing me off, anyone know a great dock app?
<jbicha> rexis: have you tried Unity? I hear it's not too bad ;)
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-19
<BigWhale> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=631295 this is also true for Ubuntu and it makes Ubuntu almost useless for copying videos from camera to the computer ...
<ubot2> Debian bug 631295 in gvfs-backends "gvfs-backends: gvfsd-gphoto2 handles large image/video files very badly" [Important,Open]
<baddhabit> hey folks
<baddhabit> anyone have a pulse in here
 * MrChrisDruif drops to the floow
<baddhabit> :)
<baddhabit> Does anyone have a moment to assist me with 64 bit ubuntu 12.04 display issue
<mlankhor1t> seems like a user question, for which this isn't the right place to ask, try a generic help channel :-)
<baddhabit> well a user is asking the question :)
<baddhabit> the x server is only displaying on 1 screen.  I have a 2nd and my mouse can go to it...
<baddhabit> If I am still in the wrong place, then fine.. i will keep looking for assistance
<baddhabit> yes, no, ?
<baddhabit> :
<Laney> support questions should be asked in #ubuntu (or askubuntu, the forums, ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com)
<Laney> this is a developer channel :-)
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-20
<jasoncwarner_> morning everyone
 * bryceh waves
<MrChrisDruif> jasoncwarner_; good night to you, fine sir
<jasoncwarner_> MrChrisDruif: it's still the weekend for some ;)
<MrChrisDruif> Date and time in the Netherlands: Mon May 21 01:57:50
<RAOF> Good morning!
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-13
<pitti_> Good morning
<darkxst_> pitti_, good morning
<darkxst_> pitti_, any chance you take a look at the retracer sometime
<pitti_> darkxst: ah, sorry; I guess at some point it'll be easier if you run it somewhere..
<pitti_> still on my list
<darkxst> pitti_, that would be fine, but I have no idea how to actually set it up ;)
<RAOF> pitti: Hey, say I was running adt-run locally with adt-virt-schroot and the autopkgtest was failing with no useful error, how would I log in to the schroot it's using to diagnose?
<pitti> RAOF: I suggest you schroot into the target manually, and within that, run adt-run with adt-virt-null
<jibel> good morning
<darkxst> pitti, any idea why the list of installed languages from accountsservice is much smaller, than 'locale -a'?
<pitti> darkxst: locale -a has lots of locales for the same lang
<pitti> darkxst: there are some 10 English locales (UK, US, New Zealand, and so on)
<darkxst> pitti, yes I saw 10+ english from locale -a (and SUPPORTED) but only about 5 from accountsservice
<darkxst> and I have no way to filter those dupes out of the SUPPORTED list, however I guess other languages mostly shouldnt be too bad.
<pitti> why not? just split at the first _ ?
<darkxst> pitti, really doesnt fit the current UI
<darkxst> although I have considered making a seperate dialog that just list that bit
<Laney> morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> Laney, hey, had a good w.e?
<Laney> yeah, three day one, was very fine thanks :-)
<Laney> what about you? good mini holiday?
<seb128> yeah, I was planning to still check emails and do some stuff but I finally didn't and it was good to have some days off work ;-)
<mlankhorst> hehe mini holiday was great :)
<seb128> the weather was also ok for most of the w.e (though with some rains in between and wind yesterday)
<seb128> hey mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> a little, I was lucky, when I was outside it was dry the entire time
<mlankhorst> except thursday, I got stuck in a lightning storm on my bike
<Laney> exciting
<mlankhorst> a great way to get soaked to the bone in a random village
<mlankhorst> :D
<Laney> we had lots of quite strong showers over the weekend
<Laney> hid out in the library for a couple of hours
<mlankhorst> I just crossed a canal, I could suddenly see beyond some homes
<mlankhorst> and I was like.. best do the next 10 km real fast even if it's against the wind..
<Laney> heh
<mlankhorst> then after it was gone, the wind was gone too!
<mlankhorst> which made me sad, if it stayed I would have made it home a lot faster
<Mirv> sil2100: morning!
<mlankhorst> sunday was great though, I enjoyed my ride outside a lot. 2.5 hours :)
 * Laney has been doing short ones to figure out how to not fall off when stopping
<Laney> getting used to unclipping now
<mlankhorst> heheheh
<mlankhorst> I did some canters like that yesterday, except it was to learn how to not fall off when going fast ;)
<geser> given a package (razorqt) synced from Debian which build-depends on liblightdm-qt-dev (doesn't exist in Ubuntu): is replacing this build-dependency with liblightdm-qt-3-dev and have pkg-config check for liblightdm-qt-3 (instead of liblightdem-qt-2) the right "fix" to let the package build?
<Laney> geser: perhaps make it check for both, as a more upstreamable fix
<Laney> assuming it works with both, that is
<geser> Laney: it builds at least with those changes
 * Laney nods
<Laney> should be easy to change it to build with either
<geser> yes, my patch to CMakefile checks fist for -qt-3 now and falls back to -qt-2 if the first isn't found (like it already does with -qt-1 if -qt-2 isn't found)
<Laney> great
<geser> Laney: thanks, will send my changes to the DD for comment/review
<mlankhorst> derp, when testing something, make sure you install it first..
<Laney> hmm
<dbarth> hi; i'm looking into a dependency issue with flashplugin-nonfree; although the control file doesn't mention it, the i386 build depends on update-notifier-common...
<dbarth> is there any reason for that automatic dependency, or is a build error somewhere?
<mlankhorst> remove it and find out?
<dbarth> well, i can try rebuilding the package, yes
<dbarth> with the current control file,ie http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/raring/flashplugin-nonfree/raring/view/head:/debian/control
<mlankhorst> and back to raining here
<sil2100> fginther: ping
<seb128> pitti, hey, how are you?
<pitti> hey seb128! I'm fine, how are you?
<seb128> pitti, was your pending g-s-d change (drop lock_scree_on_suspend) ready for upload?
<seb128> pitti, I'm good thanks, I had a long and relaxing w.e (got lucky with the weather for most of it, it's not great but at least it was not raining too much in the afternoons)
<pitti> seb128: yes, it is; it just wasn't important enough to upload by itself (as that code path isn't taken any more)
<seb128> pitti, ok, I've another patch to upload, I was just double checking, danke ;-)
<fginther> sil2100, ping
<seb128> Laney, the clutter-gst-2.0 cogl 1.10 b-d, was it needed or did you just want to force a recent enough cogl version? (that's our only diff with debian atm)
<sil2100> fginther: ping
<fginther> sil2100, pong
<Laney> seb128: well it's in configure.ac, I was probably following that
<Laney> weird that they don't have this build-dep in Debian though but if it's pull in some other way you can sync I suppose
<Laney> probably best to add it back in svn
<seb128> sil2100, cyphermox_, Mirv: hey, do you guys know why we didn't have daily landing of the indicator stack recently?
<sil2100> seb128: you mean raring or head?
<seb128> sil2100, saucy
<seb128> so trunk I guess
<sil2100> seb128: would have to check, as cyphermox_ is the maintainer of the indicator stack
<Laney> cyphermox told me it would be disabled for some time until something gets merged
<sil2100> Maybe it's the same as with unity, i.e. UTAH problems with autopilo ttesting
<Laney> forgot what though ...
<sil2100> Ah, right, maybe we already have disabled the indicator stack
<sil2100> Laney might be right
<Laney> I was hassling him in Oak to do a release and he did a manual one for me
<sil2100> seb128: since there were plans to disable daily-build of indicators until the /phablet branches are not merged in
<seb128> sil2100, is overlay-scrollbar in the indicator stack?
<sil2100> seb128: I think it was in the misc stack when I last seen it
<sil2100> cyphermox_: you re-enabled the unity-gtk-module for the unity stack already btw.?
<sil2100> cyphermox_: I see you did, ok
<sil2100> cyphermox_: since currently as things are the integration tests for unity-gtk-module won't test unity-gtk-module at all
<sil2100> seb128: yep, it's in the misc stack in head
<Laney> bzr branch lp:cupstream2distro-config is helpful for questions like that
<sil2100> cyphermox_: I didn't want to re-enable it yet because the integration tests don't test what they need to right now, they just test the standard appmenu-gtk features - but no worries, at least it shouldn't block anything
<seb128> Laney, I admit I'm just being lazy there, I was trying to have an answer to "why aren't the stack landing in saucy" without having to spend 15 minutes browsing jenkins and logs ;-)
<Laney> heh
<seb128> I though sil2100 or cyphermox_ would know ;-)
<seb128> cyphermox_, we need that overlay-scrollbar fix you did in saucy to unblock gtk 3.8
<sil2100> Yep, you can use us as much as you want while we're here ;)
<sil2100> seb128: what fix is that?
<sil2100> seb128: as I am maintaining the misc stack, I could maybe push it further
<Laney> just looked at that MP, says there's still issues
<seb128> sil2100, https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/overlay-scrollbar/fix-second-use/+merge/162507
<seb128> Laney, oh, right
<seb128> I only tested the vertical scrolling (I'm not even sure where to find something that scroll horizontally)
 * seb128 tries
<seb128> Laney, btw did you see my glib ping before? I just got disconnected from IRC after, not sure if it went through (I didn't see your reply if you added one)
<Laney> no, didn't get one
<seb128> Laney, the clutter-gst-2.0 cogl 1.10 b-d, was it needed or did you just want to force a recent enough cogl version? (that's our only diff with debian atm)
<seb128> dah
<seb128> wrong history pick
<Laney> if it's "want to do the update?" then the answer is that it's on my list :-)
<seb128> Laney, btw upstream just rolled out a tarball for glib 2.36.2, can you take care of it (or ask if pochu wants to do it ... do we still need that small diff over debian?)
<Laney> pitti was pinging about the diff earlier though, so maybe he is doing it
<Laney> and yes it is still necessary
<pitti> yeah, we still need that diff
<seb128> pitti, ^
<seb128> pitti, are you doing the update?
<Laney> unless we want to fix wanna-build
<pitti> I still need to roll a new pygobject tarball today and have a meeting, so not today
<seb128> no hurry, anyway between you and Laney to sort out
<seb128> thanks guys ;-)
<Laney> I think pochu was planning something around glib anyways
<Laney> making tests fatal on all arches
<pitti> yay bsd and hurt
<Laney> ah, already in svn
<pitti> err, hurd, but "hurt" is rather descriptive, too
<Laney> doesn't affect us for ubuntu of course, but it does make me reluctant to update in debian ...
<Laney> seb128: synced clutter-gst-2.0
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> np
<Laney> added the bd in svn so it'll come back next time
<seb128> great
<seb128> brb, reboot
<cyphermox> sil2100: reenabled only to get the autolanding actually. isn't there a daily_release: False?
<cyphermox> actually, nevermind that, I thought attente told me the tests were ready
<seb128> pitti, your ppa works fine on laptop with saucy, though I've a "boring" config to test that (no lvm, no disk encryption, etc) ... standard plugging usb key or tablet works and display icons in the launcher, etc
<seb128> on my laptop*
<pitti> seb128: thanks for confirming
<seb128> yw!
<attente> cyphermox, hey, the tests should be good now
<sil2100> cyphermox: they're ready, but they're not testing what needs to be tested in the current phase
<sil2100> cyphermox: but I'll work on that, since it's anyway my task as per the spreadsheet
<cyphermox> ok
<sil2100> cyphermox: please update it once you do anything specific ;)
<sil2100> In the future, so that we don't duplicate too much!
<dobey_> dpm: ping
<dpm> hey dobey_, about to enter a call, but shoot if I can help with anything
<dobey> dpm: was just wondering about what to use for translations in qt. if we should use the native qt stuff (and how that fits into the ubuntu translations magic stuff), or if we should just use gettext, or what. or if there's plans to change that going forward, to fit in more with the qt way
<cyphermox> seb128: anytime now: https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/overlay-scrollbar/fix-second-use/+merge/162507
<cyphermox> desrt: want to review that? ^
<desrt> cyphermox: get cimi
<dpm> dobey, in summary: gettext because that's what Launchpad supports, and that is not expected to change. We already use gettext in the SDK, we just don't have a story for pure qt apps
<desrt> he'll be happy to spend the 5 minutes to review and i honestly have no idea what i'd be looking at
<dobey> dpm: hmm, ok
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hey
<pitti> chrisccoulson: do you have an 1-minute recipe how to fix hangouts on today's firefox?
<pitti> they were working last week still, but now ffox says the plugin isn't installed (but it is)
<pitti> (meeting going on for 10 mins already..)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, i've not tried it. where is the plugin installed?
<pitti> /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/, plus a dozen symlinks
<chrisccoulson> pitti, oh, that's not going to work
<pitti> it was until last week
<chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, it won't work with the new version, as it's moved to /usr/lib/firefox/browser/plugins
<chrisccoulson> nobody should be using that directory
<chrisccoulson> it should be in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
<pitti> chrisccoulson: that's one of the locations it's symlinked to
<chrisccoulson> pitti, is it google plus or firefox that says the plugin isn't installed? (ie, is it listed in about:plugins)
<chrisccoulson> it's listed here
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I don't see it in about:plugins
<chrisccoulson> pitti - what about if you enter "Components.classes["@mozilla.org/plugin/host;1"] .getService(Components.interfaces.nsIPluginHost).reloadPlugins(false)" in to the error console and then restart?
<chrisccoulson> actually, the restart should be unnecessary
<pitti> chrisccoulson: how do I get the error console?
<chrisccoulson> pitti, is it not in the Tools -> Web Developer menu?
<pitti> ah, it is (I never used it)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: if I do that and click "Evaluate", nothing happens at all
<chrisccoulson> it's not in the plugin list now?
<pitti> no
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i'm not sure then atm
<pitti> I already tried to purge and reinstall google-talkplugin, restarting firefox several times, etc.
<pitti> ok, so after meeting/tomorrow I'll try with a new profile
<chrisccoulson> oh, wow, my session is totally messed up. launcher and dash appearing beneath all of my windows :(
<chrisccoulson> desrt, is it a bug to call g_object_new from within a class_init function?
<desrt> yesish
<chrisccoulson> desrt, heh, i thought as much (see bug 1179554) ;)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1179554 in ibus (Ubuntu) "Firefox hang on start because ibus calls g_object_new inside a class_init function" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1179554
<desrt> it's not strictly a bug
<desrt> but you should only be doing a very limited number of things in class_init
<desrt> properties, signals, vfunc overrides
<desrt> ooo
<desrt> this looks like the fun gobject deadlock
<chrisccoulson> desrt, oh, should i reassign it to glib?
<desrt> it's already known
<desrt> assuming it's the same one (which it appears to be)
<chrisccoulson> desrt, got a bug number?
<desrt> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=674885
<ubot2> Gnome bug 674885 in gobject "type initialisation deadlock in GObject" [Normal,New]
<chrisccoulson> desrt, excellent, thanks
<seb128> re
<seb128> pitti, some people mentioned earlier getting hangouts back after upgrading the plugin from google
<seb128> pitti, you might want to try that
<seb128> I should try hangouts before tomorrow
<ogra_> that takes out all excitement
<chrisccoulson> desrt, oh, i've just noticed the date on that bug. so, this issue isn't actually a recent one?
<chrisccoulson> i wonder why i've only just started seeing it :/
<pitti> seb128: hm, upgrade how?
<pitti> seb128: I purged the package and clicked on "install" in the hangout window, and it gave me the very same deb
<seb128> pitti, https://tools.google.com/dlpage/hangoutplugin/download.html
<seb128> ?
<pitti> seb128: yes, that very
<chrisccoulson> perhaps i should upgrade to saucy and test it
<seb128> works for me (on 32 bits)
<chrisccoulson> pitti, or just switch to chromium ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: that's the very thing I tried to avoid :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1305-chromium-default-browser ;)
<Laney> Chromium has matured to being as good or better than Firefox
<Laney> cheeky git!
<Laney> :P
<pitti> oh noes
<pitti> so when MS tried to get everywhere, the FOSS world was raging
<chrisccoulson> Laney, you might change your mind once all of our customizations are dropped from firefox ;)
<pitti> when Google does it, everyone loves it
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i know
<Laney> why would they be dropped?!
<Laney> I'm blissfully unaware of what they are :-)
<seb128> google is nice though
<seb128> ms is a crappy capitalist company
<chrisccoulson> Laney, because nobody has the time to maintain them anymore. i'm hoping to get the important ones upstream, but that is happening slowly
<chrisccoulson> or not at all
<chrisccoulson> Laney, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-trunk.head/files/head:/debian/patches/ ;)
<pitti> seb128: </irony>, right? (I'm not 100% sure)
<seb128> pitti, no
<Laney> as long as I can keep my vimperator
<seb128> pitti, I hate $ms ad compains against other companies; that's typical marketing and it sucls
<seb128> sucks
<sarnold> Laney: if vimperator stops working for you, checkout pentadactyl..
<chrisccoulson> google are just as bad as microsoft. in fact, i'm less afraid of microsoft than i am of google ;)
<seb128> google never do hate ad compains
<pitti> seb128: yeah, no argument there
<seb128> chrisccoulson, because google is smarter? ;-)
<Laney> sarnold: I flip flop between the two when one of them stops working :P
<mlankhorst> actually facebook is the worse evil atm
<pitti> but right now, Google is by far the worse player
<seb128> mlankhorst, they are not really playing in the same league than the others though
<mlankhorst> true
<chrisccoulson> seb128, no, because they're happy to abuse their dominant position to push their product in your face
<pitti> goodle doesn't have to make hate ads, they just destroy or buy the competition :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, like $ms never did?
<chrisccoulson> take the google search page for example ;)
<sarnold> Laney: hehe :) I'm glad you know about them both.. I've not needed to flip back to vimperator so far..
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm not saying i like microsoft ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you say google is worth than ms though
<seb128> I don't agree
<pitti> right now, for the software market they are
<seb128> because they are smarter...
<seb128> if $ms was to lead they wouldn't be any better
<chrisccoulson> i don't disagree with that
<pitti> yeah, neither do I
<pitti> google is basically today what MS was 10 years ago
<seb128> it's a result of the market/society/business as it is today
<seb128> whoever is in the leading position will deserve hate for the things they did/are doing to be there
<pitti> yeah, winner's curse
<mlankhorst> not really, microsoft is still doing the same thing, just more behind the curtains
<pitti> I still like Mozilla more, and I rather trust their products with my data than chromium
<mlankhorst> I don't 'trust' anyone with my data, that's what verification is for
<pitti> anyway, time for TB meeting, that was an unexpected flamefest :)
<dobey> ick chromium. i hope not
<LeartS> Anyone who can review and approve / disapprove branches? https://code.launchpad.net/~vandersonmr/gnome-screenshot/bugfix1169904/+merge/161262 and https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/unity/fix-dnd-alttab/+merge/158182
<TheMuso> Chromium also introduces accessibility implications, like not working out of teh box with Orca. It has its own extension for screen reading, but totally different keystrokes and doesn't integrate with Orca either.
<TheMuso> I am also considering moving my data away from Google. I haven't been liking what they have been up to recently.
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-14
<Mirv> morning
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<mlankhorst> g'day maaate
<chrisccoulson> good morning
<RAOF> Good evening gentlemen. I trust the hour finds you well?
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> hey mlankhorst, chrisccoulson, RAOF, jibel!
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
<didrocks> jibel: c'Ã©tait bien tes vacances? ;)
<mlankhorst> bonjour
<mlankhorst> Ã§a va
<didrocks> Ã§a va bien, et toi? :)
<mlankhorst> Ã§a va mouveais, nouveau crashed
<didrocks> :)
<mlankhorst> 90% sure I spelled it wrong
<mlankhorst> mauvais?
<didrocks> "nouveau" was spelt fine :)
<didrocks> ouai, mauvais
<jibel> salut didrocks! trÃ¨s reposantes et toi ces qq jours ?
<didrocks> jibel: bien bien aussi, beau temps, c'Ã©tait sympa :)
<didrocks> jibel: tu commences Ã  t'habituer Ã  ta nouvelle maison?
<didrocks> jibel: oh, as well, it seems the saucy pbuilder didn't got eatmydata installed for daily release, do you mind doing so?
<seb128> hey desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128, bonne semaine off? :)
<seb128> didrocks, lut, oui, et toi ?
<seb128> wb!
<didrocks> wb as well! ;)
<didrocks> seb128: trÃ¨s bien, soleil, temps splendide :)
<jibel> didrocks, k, on it
<didrocks> jibel: merci!
<seb128> lut jibel
<seb128> didrocks, lucky you, it's 15Â°C and windy and rainy since sunday here
<jibel> Salut seb128
<didrocks> urgh :(
<didrocks> seb128: come to Lyon ;-)
<didrocks> blue sky here
<seb128> didrocks, enjoy it today: http://www.meteo-lyon.net/previsions.php
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I know, it's getting bad :(
<seb128> rains from tomorrow until eow every day for you then ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: ah you are smiling? you are so mean :p
<seb128> lol
<seb128> thursday is 10Â°C under the norms with 10.5Â°C :-/
<seb128> oh well, we will not regret to be stucked on the computer for vUDS at least...
<mlankhorst> half the days will be under the median temperature for that day
<mlankhorst> :P
<chrisccoulson> seb128, http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/13/rain-england-wales?CMP=twt_gu ;)
<didrocks> seb128: right ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, you would expect that from england :p
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you btw? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, tired ;)
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> good, a bit tired as well though
<seb128> didrocks, so, with vUDS, want a short meeting anyway for people who are not in a session?
<seb128> e.g do you want to use the checkpoint
<seb128> or should we skip?
<didrocks> seb128: I would say skip, I'm pinging people directly today to catch up anyway :)
<didrocks> even robru was up late for him to keep me posted this early morning :)
<seb128> ok
<robru> it's easier for me to stay up late than to get up early ;-)
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> robru: depends on who you spoke too, I'm an early bird
<robru> didrocks, yeah... I said easier for *me* ;-)
<didrocks> ;)
<Laney> hallo
<pitti> bonjour didrocks et seb128
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson and Laney
<didrocks> salut pitti, Ã§a va?
 * pitti waves to mlankhorst, too
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti
<pitti> wow, you go out for 45 mins for running and suddenly everyone is here :)
<pitti> didrocks: Ã§a va bien ! Je suis allÃ© courier
<Laney> party in #ubuntu-desktop
<seb128> pitti, salut, ca va ?
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> pitti, il ne pleut pas chez toi ?
<pitti> seb128: non, il y a soleil
<didrocks> pitti: I was here way before and felt lonely in the chan :p
<seb128> pitti, chanceux
<pitti> (si c'est correct)
<didrocks> pitti: high five!
<didrocks> let seb128 alone with his rain :p
 * pitti ^5s didrocks
<seb128> bah
 * mlankhorst waves to pitti 
 * pitti donne une accolade Ã  seb128
 * seb128 donne une accolade en retour Ã  pitti
 * Laney spies activity on his uploaded SRUs
<Laney> thanks pitti and the TB ;-)
<pitti> heh
<seb128> Laney, what did the TB decide?
 * seb128 just reading the summary
<seb128> we need more sru team members :/
<Laney> no decision, but they prodded the SRU team
<chrisccoulson> decision on what?
<Laney> well there was an interesting point there that perhaps more team members makes everyone do less work
<seb128> well, prodding is not really useful when the issue is team being too small and overworked
<Laney> speeding up srus
<seb128> well, you need people wanting to join for that
<seb128> I don't think the SRU team has ever refused valid candidate
<seb128> it's just that nobody has been stepping up to join
 * Laney shrugs - don't know how the members feel, will see if they respond
<seb128> well, last time I discussed the delay issue with slangasek he replied with a "feel free to join and help with reviews"
<Laney> at least the software-center one got accepted though - that was a top report on errors
<seb128> well, direct IRC prodding usually works
<seb128> I guess dobey did that
<Laney> don't know
<pitti> Laney: well, there was a decision -- we keep the four-eyes principle, i. e. sru team review
<Laney> OK, a decision as opposed to a change
<pitti> Laney: yeah, I don't believe that a team of 8 people works well on something like SRU
<pitti> rotations with a 3-people team work much better IMHO, otherwise the responsibility is too diluted
<seb128> the problem is to find 3 people with enough time to allocate to reviews
<Laney> seems like it's hard for people to be able to allocate regular slots of time
<seb128> it's like sponsoring
<seb128> half of the team doesn't do their shift
<seb128> some people never do any
 * seb128 looks at chrisccoulson :p
<czajkowski> Sweetshark: care to look at a LO question that came in to LP please. https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/228802
<seb128> czajkowski, hey, how are you?
<czajkowski> seb128: not bad now thanks, working away and keeping busy and not broken my machine lately :)
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> on saucy yet?
<czajkowski> nope
<Laney> muhahaha
<czajkowski> I dont want to drive seb128 bonkers :)
<seb128> lol
<czajkowski> I still have a wifi issue I cannot work out at my bf house on his network but that's not a desktop issue
<czajkowski> overall raring is pretty sweet tbh
<ogra_> raring ... pfft ... old stuff
 * Laney is always amazed by how good my connection to cdimage is
<Laney> 12MB/s
<czajkowski> ogra_: I'm clearly havibg better luck than some though https://twitter.com/sdanaipat/status/334234693744615424/photo/1
<seb128> Laney, are you at the office in London? :p
<Laney> haha, I am not
<ogra_> well, he should better not use the new camouflage mode :P
<czajkowski> Laney: coming to london any time soon
<Laney> downloading ISOs is the only time I ever see a download maxing out my connection
<Laney> guess VM peer with canonical's upstream or something
<Laney> czajkowski: no plans
<seb128> Laney, is that a dsl line? /me wonder how you u.k guys get such bandwith :p
<Laney> cable
<Laney> it's only available in quite limited areas, i got lucky
<Laney> otherwise FTTC (and some limited FTTH) is starting to roll out
<seb128> k, we just have a lucky set with you and chrisccoulson there then ;-)
<Laney> but if you're in a rural area like my parents you're often out of luck - they get <1mbit
<Laney> mobile internet would be better for them probably :/
<seb128> it's about the same here, I'm in a small city and I get ~5Mbit on my dsl line
<seb128> which is ok
<chrisccoulson> seb128, Laney, https://twitter.com/chrisccoulson/status/333877250644664320 ;)
<czajkowski> Laney: who are you with for broadband ?
<Laney> virgin
<Laney> chrisccoulson: nice!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, shrug, your upload is three time my download, no fun :p
<Laney> I looked at infinity but line rental makes it more than VM :(
<chrisccoulson> seb128, heh :)
<czajkowski> hate Virgin, drove me insane for 3 days last week with a fault on the line
<czajkowski> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2706848821.png  :-)
<Laney> seems quite variable across the country; always (touch wood) been rock solid here
<Laney> maybe because they have a couple of offices in nottm
<chrisccoulson> i see a lot of people complaining about virgin
<chrisccoulson> my connection is rock solid :)
<chrisccoulson> although, i'm quite lucky. my house is pretty much a stone throw away from the cabinet
<Laney> yeah mine is right on the street here too, so if I went fttc it'd be pretty good
<Laney> come a long way from our 14.4 modem :-)
<chrisccoulson> hah, could you imagine me uploading firefox across a 14.4k modem?
<Sweetshark> czajkowski: done
<chrisccoulson> it would take an entire day to upload firefox to the archive on a 14.4k connection
<czajkowski> Sweetshark: thanks
<chrisccoulson> whereas it takes just over a minute on my connection :)
<chrisccoulson> hah, seb128 will like https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/334239133016928257 ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, lol
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I like how you guys hate us, 'least trustworthy: france" ... come on ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<Sweetshark> saw that before, happy that Germany wins! (... at least in most arrogant and least compassionate ....)
<chrisccoulson> it looks like the greek don't like the germans too ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's a bit weird how french listed France as most and least arrogant at the same time
<chrisccoulson> lol @ the polish answer to "most trustworthy" and "least trustworthy"
<Sweetshark> euro is done now anyway, with france buying all the money that japan is printing out of thin air. What could possibly go wrong: http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2013/05/20130513_oat1.jpg
<jpds> Sweetshark: http://is.gd/lt9Qbp
<Sweetshark> jpds: well yeah, most of europe is still better off than the UK which deindustrialized itself in the last decades for the brave new world of becoming just one big bank and nothing else ...
<seb128> pitti, btw, did you sort out your hangout issues?
<pitti> good point, testing now
<pitti> hm, just works again
<seb128> pitti, I'm just wondering if that's a real bug that's going to hit people for vUDS
<seb128> k
<seb128> works for me as well
<Sweetshark> seb128: if its a real bug, it will be clever enough to hide right until the party starts ...
<czajkowski> chrisccoulson: http://t.co/88SuYdFm4U  better:)
<seb128> pitti, you don't fancy debugging a test failing on arm by any chance? ;-)
<seb128> pitti, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsoup2.4/2.42.2-3/+build/4567653
<czajkowski> seb128: I think he's hiding on yu
<czajkowski> *you
<seb128> czajkowski, typical pitti? ;-)
<czajkowski> seb128: geting the hair done for his hangouts today, clearly! :)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> Laney, thanks for the glib update ;-)
<chrisccoulson> do we just go to pitti if we want failing tests debugging? :)
<chrisccoulson> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-ppa-adt-ubuntu_mozilla_daily_ppa-firefox-trunk/220/#showFailuresLink
<chrisccoulson> :P
<pitti> seb128: I can debug it on the nexus
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, you can try (that's what I'm doing) :p
<pitti> seb128: tomorrow morning ok? I'm still working on pkg-create-dbgsym, and UDS is soon
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> pitti, sure, no hurry, I just noticed that jbicha synced it a while ago and it has been failing to build on arm for some weeks/versions
<seb128> pitti, seems like it's failing for debian as well
<dobey> seb128: actually, was about to ping about software-center sru for raring when i saw infinity had accepted it already. last i pinged about it was about 2 weeks ago. need to ping about the rhythmbox-ubuntuone ones as well. and i guess i need to shove some more "info" in the bugs :-/
<seb128> dobey, hey, did you test software-center with gtk 3.8? there are issues between the two apparently
<dobey> seb128: i haven't  myself no. but gtk 3.7 did break something and causes a BadMatch or something, yes. there are bugs about it
<dobey> seb128: but i don't see why software-center itself would be the cause of the bug. seems like a regression in gtk+ to me
<seb128> dobey, I guess we should investigate that before getting gtk 3.8 in the archive
<seb128> I would like to upload the new gtk soon, it's blocking quite some other updates
<seb128> dobey, do you think there is any chance you could have a look to that a bit this week?
<Sweetsha1k> larsu_, tedg: FYI https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64560 LibreOffice 4.0 unity integration seems to needs additional backports to work properly on 12.04. Any hints?
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 64560 in Writer "Cannot use Table menu entries on Unity" [Major,Resolved: notourbug]
<dobey> seb128: maybe but probably not. maybe we could ask jbicha to debug a bit?
<dobey> anyway, i need to get lunch now, and take care of a couple things during lunch break.
<tedg> Sweetsha1k, I don't think that 12.04 used the GMenu based indicator-appmenu...
<seb128> dobey, ok, thanks, enjoy lunch!
<tedg> Sweetsha1k, I think you'll need a backport of a more recent indicator-appmenu to make that work.
<Sweetsha1k> tedg: ... or dump unity integration for those backports and tell people to use the (also flaky) lo-menubar if the absolutely want it.
<tedg> Sweetsha1k, Yeah, that's probably more reasonable.
<Sweetsha1k> tedg: ok, will go for that then. Just wanting to make sure, there is no quick-n easy fix.
<chrisccoulson> oh, pitti's pkg-create-dbgsym fix - can we have that as a SRU for other releases? ;)
<chrisccoulson> i'm sure my PPA's are swallowing space
<pitti> I guess you might actually be able to talk infinity into accepting it
<pitti> as we want to switch to storing ddebs in the librarian soon
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you have both have a dbg and a dbgsym in the ppas?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, why did you enable ddebs in the ppa if you have a dbg?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, don't i need ddebs for retracing to work?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I think apport fallbacks to using -dbg when there is not, but I'm not sure
<seb128> pitti knows better ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i guess i could turn one of them off
<pitti> correct
<pitti> I fixed apport in saucy today to do that more properly
<pitti> (and the retracers in the DC)
<pitti> but for almost all cases it was workign correctly before already
 * pitti waves good night
<seb128> pitti, 'night
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-15
<pitti> Good morning
<sil2100> thomi: ping
<popey> hmm. how do you manually attach a /var/crash/..crash report to a bug?
<RAOF> Attach it as a file?
<pitti> you don't
<pitti> please, don't
<popey> I have unpacked it, so have a bunch of files which may or may not be useful to the bug report?
<popey> oh.
<popey> is there nothing useful in there?
<pitti> at least not the core dump
<popey> there's no core dump
<popey> and my bug is private
<pitti> there might be some logs etc. which may be useful, but attaching a raw coredump into a bug makes things really hard for a triager
<pitti> popey: oh, python crash?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5666792/
<popey> rhythmbox
<popey> thats all that it contains
<popey> i woke to find it crashed and a dialog on my screen saying "Sorry the program 'Rhythmbox' closed unexpectedly
<popey> Your computer does not have enough free memory to automatically analyse the problem and send a report to the developers"
<pitti> ah, then it's useless anyway, as the core dump is too big and thus wasn't saved
<pitti> but I get that crash, too
<pitti> everytime a song ends, RB crashes in saucy
<pitti> (if it's that crash)
<popey> no, this is if it's left not playing overnight
<popey> should I leave rb running overnight via gdb then get a backtrace the next day? Might be more useful?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<seb128> lut didrocks ;-)
<pitti> bonjour seb128, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> pitti, salut, oui, trÃ¨s bien (en dehors de la pluie), et toi ?
<pitti> seb128: Ã§a va bien ! (et encore soleil ici :) )
<didrocks> pitti: fais attention, seb128 va t'envoyer de la pluie
<didrocks> c'est ce qu'il s'est passÃ© ici :(
<didrocks> mÃ©chant seb128 :p
<seb128> roooh
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> hey jibel!
<didrocks> seb128: FYI, I'm uploading that change: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~webapps/webapps-applications/trunk/revision/534, it's going to be in binNEW
<didrocks> seb128: the goal was to add a -dev package where every webapps script will depend upon (it's using a linter script with gjs which is in universe and the scripts are in universe)
<jibel> salut didrocks
<didrocks> so we can keep -common binary in main
<didrocks> and have this new -dev binary in universe
<seb128> didrocks, ok, makes sense
<didrocks> seb128: just a preventive ping if you can review as I want to be able to run the webapps stack quickly then to get that sorted out :)
<didrocks> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> didrocks, will do
<seb128> yw
<Laney> morning!
<seb128> Laney, hey, how are you?
<Laney> strangely tired, but fine thanks
<Laney> you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> shrug, I forgot about that
<seb128> with the new glib, unity-panel-service segfault every time you close a win...
<seb128> cyphermox_, ^ we need that libdbusmenu fix from charles merged and uploaded
<seb128> didrocks, ^ for info
<seb128> going to be fun for saucy users until it is :/
<Laney> hmm, i don't see that
<Laney> but anyway if it's that important then we can just upload it
<seb128> Laney, it's not the end of the world, the service respawn, you just see the menubar be relocated to the app for a second and then be masked again
<seb128> then you get apport to nag you
<didrocks> seb128: we can just run libdbusmenu. If the indicator guys didn't want us to disable daily release because they are going to break trunk :/
 * Laney is in the middle of being spammed by apport
<Laney> arghghgh
<seb128> new glib seems to also make tb unhappy
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ^ did you notice?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i haven't upgraded yet
<chrisccoulson> unhappy in what way?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5666939/
<didrocks> seb128: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+queue please ;)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, g_menu_item_set_detailed_action ?
<chrisccoulson> what code is calling this?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, seems to come from libmessaging-menu
<chrisccoulson> ah
<seb128> so maybe a messaging menu issue
<seb128> f***
<seb128> chrisccoulson, tb lost my config/account :-(
<seb128> when I start it now it gives me the "welcome to tb, do you want a new email"
<seb128> didrocks, NEWed
<didrocks> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> didrocks, re: libdbusmenu, let's wait for cyphermox_, he put the merge on hold because there was a debug printf left in the MR
<didrocks> right
<chrisccoulson> seb128, what's in ~/.thunderbird and ~/.thunderbird/profiles.ini ?
<seb128> $ ls ~/.thunderbird/
<seb128> appreg            Crash Reports                  profiles.ini
<seb128> baistreq.default  messagingmenu@mozilla.com.xpi
<seb128> $ profiles.ini
<seb128> [General]
<seb128> StartWithLastProfile=1
<seb128> [Profile0]
<seb128> Name=default
<seb128> IsRelative=1
<seb128> Path=baistreq.default
<Laney> I keep getting facebook "Success" pages opening in my browser
 * Laney suspects UOA
<seb128> that again?
<Laney> again?
<seb128> we had that last cycle at some point
<Laney> seb128: can you reproduce it?
<Laney> go to add a facebook account in UOA
<seb128> I've on configured
<Laney> yeah, just try to add a new one
<Laney> happens the same for me anyway
<seb128> Laney, can you ping mardy on #ubuntu-devel about it?
<Laney> oui
<seb128> 'ci
<seb128> Laney, but yeah, it opens in firefox rather than embedded for me as well
<seb128> Laney, I suspect fb server side changes
<Laney> yeah, found this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center-signon/+bug/1132030
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1132030 in gnome-control-center-signon (Ubuntu) "Facebook account setup opens in external browser, unusable" [Undecided,Fix released]
<seb128> Laney, that was the one from last time
<Laney> yup
<seb128> Laney, didrocks, chrisccoulson: just for info:
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-messages/+bug/1180302
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1180302 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "hit SIGTRAP errors after glib 2.37 update" [High,New]
<seb128> desrt_, larsu_: ^ hey, please have a look if you can, tb fails to start in saucy, issue with new glib/libmessaging-menu
<seb128> well "fails to start", it hit that when I receive new messages, but it might be config dependant
<seb128> desrt_, larsu_: it hits that error:
<seb128> g_menu_item_set_detailed_action: Detailed action name 'mailbox:///home/user/.thunderbird/idprofile.default/Mail/pop.orange.fr/Inbox' has invalid format
<Laney> seb128: would it be alright to promote libgee-0.8?
<seb128> Laney, want to make it the default version?
<Laney> not really, just updating libdmapsharing which deps on this series
<seb128> wfm
<seb128> we should make it default
<seb128> but I want to check with mhr3 if that's ok with them before
<Laney> it's got a renamed pcfile
<Laney> so actual source changes to rdeps
<Laney> seems like it's only for the testsuite anyway here, not at runtime
<Laney> seb128: right, uploaded - it will depwait so promote when you're ready please
<seb128> Laney, cool, will do in a bit
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey, do you have a saucy libreoffice upload planned soon?
<cyphermox_> good morning
<cyphermox_> seb128: sorry, my intent wasn't clear
<seb128> cyphermox_, hey
<seb128> cyphermox_, how are you?
<cyphermox_> I do mention there are debug stuff left in; but I don't usually block merges on that unles it was just a printf ;)
<cyphermox_> not bad, not bad
<cyphermox_> bright and early this morning :)
<seb128> cyphermox_, nice
<Sweetshark> seb128: why?
<seb128> cyphermox_, well, new glib landed and unity-panel-service goes segfault everytime you close a win
<seb128> cyphermox_, so we somewhat need that libdbusmenu to land in saucy sooner rather than latter if we can ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: AFAIK there will need to be one as the foundation guys will break LO brutally with gcc and boost updates ...
<cyphermox_> seb128: if the tests pass I'm happy to land it ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, because there is a poppler transition waiting to start and libreoffice will need a no-change-rebuild (or any other kind of upload)
<Sweetshark> seb128: so, upstream releases are still a bit off. the gcc/boost stuff will happen first.
<Sweetshark> seb128: xnox tweaked around with that in Oakland, I havent checked the current state there yet ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, what about uploading 4.0.3 in saucy?
<seb128> Sweetshark, did anyone try if that builds in saucy or did it get hit by toolchain changes already?
<Sweetshark> seb128: not tried yet. It will shure be hit by the toolchain changes.
<Sweetshark> seb128: there is little difference between 4.0.2/.3 wrt that.
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> so that poppler transition will be blocked on libreoffice to build with the new toolchain
<seb128> is that something you are working on atm?
<Sweetshark> seb128: no, I only came across that by accident. xnox is doing that on some private archives. We essentially agreed that xnox would upload a fixed LO with the toolchain changes and I would then merge them into the debian-SCM.
<seb128> xnox, Ä¥ey ;-)
<dpm> hey seb128, regarding the https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1305-printing-stack-with-mobile-in-mind bp you were pinging me about yesterday, I don't think I'll be able to attend to the rescheduled session, as I need to be on the appdev track. But in any case, I think I was added to the blueprint by mistake
<dpm> I know nothing about printing and I'm not sure how I could contribute to the discussion
<seb128> dpm, hey, no worry, Till added the subscribers, I was just trying to get people to join if anyone was interested since nobody was there
<seb128> dpm, ok, fair enough
<xnox> Sweetshark: seb128: yeah, it started building but eventually failed. need to look more into it.
<seb128> xnox, please let me know before uploading once you get it done
<seb128> xnox, we have a poppler transition to do and it will need a no change rebuild from libreoffice to pick the new soname
<seb128> xnox, so I would like to get poppler in first
<dobey> Laney: hey, might you have a suggestion on how to actually test the software-center fix for upgrade to 13.04?
<Laney> dobey: hmm, not so much, short of trying some dist-upgrades and hoping you can show that you could hit it before and not after
<Laney> at least it should be possible to observe that it drops off with the new versions on errors
<dobey> switch all the archives to raring on quantal, enable raring-proposed, and do dist-upgrade?
<Laney> something like that
<Laney> assuming you get the bug without the raring-proposed bit
<dobey> did python-gi with the Breaks: for aptdaemon make it into -updates yet?
<Laney> no, that needs to happen with s-c
<dobey> hrmm?
<Laney> you Break the older software-centers too
<dobey> right
<dobey> and that's also still in -proposed
<dobey> so without -proposed, i expect the issue to happen more often than not (esp. given the e.u.c numbers)
<hyperair> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1173886 <-- could someone tell me the reasoning behind hardcoding the colour of the nautilus tile?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1173886 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Wrong background colour for nautilus icon in Unity launcher" [Undecided,New]
<hyperair> before i get to work purging said patch
<seb128> because the automatically picked color was not working well and nobody had time to do the proper fix which is to include that color info with the icon theme
 * hyperair facepalms
<hyperair> you know, if you shipped some icon metadata along with the specific icon that hinted to unity what the tile should be, that's one thing, but this is rather ridiculous.
<hyperair> now i either have to 1) live with it, 2) run a patched nautilus, 3) dpkg-divert the desktop file, or 4) fork the desktop file into ~/.local/share/applications
<seb128> read the comments on bug #1081691?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1081691 in Ayatana Design "Launcher - Update the icons used for the Software Centre, Nautilus, and Software Updater" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1081691
<seb128> see e.g my comment #23
<seb128> but it's only a color and most users don't change their icon theme
<seb128> so it's a pretty minor issue and optimize for the most common case
<hyperair> i can't help but wonder how many users actually customize their desktop theme..
<seb128> a small % for sure
<seb128> we don't even provide an ui to do that
<seb128> we being GNOME or Unity
<hyperair> we don't provide a ui to do that == let's trample all over the dconf settings because we don't give a f___
<TheMuso> I get the feeling that all OSs are generally moving away from allowing customization. Hell one can't really customize IOS beyond text size for accessibility reasons...
<hyperair> seb128: also i can't help but note the distinct lack of response to #23.
<seb128> right
<seb128> I agree to patch those icons as a workaround for raring
<seb128> but only that
<hyperair> okay, at least we live with a temporarily broken solution.
 * hyperair sighs
<hyperair> how about sticking metadata into the icons themselves to tell unity what colour it should use?
 * hyperair wonders if anyone has tried that.
<hyperair> ah, i see that icon metadata was mentioned in bug #962120
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 962120 in Unity "Launcher - Add API to allow apps to override the Launcher tile colourisation with a colour of their choosing" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/962120
<hyperair> but https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/962120/comments/4 picked the .desktop approach instead
<hyperair> gekker, eh..
 * hyperair polishes the kitchen knife
<Sweetshark> xnox: thx. can I help out there somehow, or is it a mess to get that environment set up?
<xnox> Sweetshark: it's not a mess =) but I should push "my current state of the art somewhere"
<desrt_> Laney: rumour has it i owe you a beer :)
<desrt> (for tricking seb)
<Laney> the anti-thunderbird crew
<desrt> larsu already cooked a fix
<desrt> it's trivial
<Laney> some mangling of the id?
<desrt> that's what he was going to do
<desrt> then i reminded him that he's using the wrong API in the first place
<Sweetshark> xnox: yes, please do ;)
<desrt> the detailed action parsing only applies if you use an API that takes detailed action names
<desrt> which he should not have been doing, since there is no possibility of a target
<desrt> it would have caused problems before if someone used an action with a '::' in the name
<desrt> but now it's fixed properly
<Laney> great
<larsu_> Laney, cyphermox, seb128: patch is here: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/indicator-messages/lp1180302
<desrt> see https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=700398
<ubot2> Gnome bug 700398 in gapplication "Warn about detailed_action parameters" [Enhancement,New]
<seb128> larsu_, great, thanks
<desrt> this bug is about the trap that larsu fell into
<seb128> larsu_, I'm in a vUDS session atm but will try as soon as it's over
<desrt> seb128: bonjour de montrÃ©al!
<seb128> desrt, bonjour de france ;-)
<desrt> oh.  you're visiting france today? ;)
<larsu_> seb128: tested on cyphermox's machine. Thunderbird is still rnuning..
<cyphermox> as opposed to crashing without touching anything, yeah, it's improved
<larsu> :)
<Laney> cyphermox: can you get it uploaded to saucy?
<cyphermox> yes, will do it
<Laney> bonus
<cyphermox> moo?
<desrt> seb128: so.... this g_error() in GMenu should have been a g_critical()
<desrt> but......
<desrt> i want fatal criticals
<desrt> but.......
<desrt> only for developers
 * larsu blames this whole bug on desrt now!
<desrt> so i have an idea i want to bounce off of you
<desrt> which is that we turn criticals fatal only if we find glib.h is installed
<desrt> ie: if you install -dev packages, you get fatal criticals
<desrt> this is a good way to ensure our developers are fixing problems properly while not hurting "normal users"
<desrt> could also base it on the -dbg/-dbgsyms package being installed
<seb128> desrt, sorry, I was in an hangout
<seb128> desrt, well, devs can optin easily by setting an env variable
<desrt> seb128: but nobody does.... we need a good 'automatic' hook
<seb128> there is no good automatic
<desrt> another possibility that i consider: if your session crashes as the result of a fatal critical, we give you the option to login again with fatal criticals disabled
<desrt> so that people don't get 'stuck'
<seb128> like making your shell or im client or email client not start is going to make you not able to get work done and you are not the one who is going to fix those in most cases
<desrt> well
<desrt> look at what happens today
<desrt> i use g_error() because everyone ignores criticals
<desrt> then _everyone_ suffers
<seb128> everyone running unstable
<larsu> you shouldn't have used g_error...
<seb128> which is probably close from the set of those having -dev installed
<desrt> larsu: i shouldn't have to contend with a log file full of ignored criticals
<desrt> seb128: not toward the end of the cycle...
<desrt> seb128: i'd still support an opt-out
<desrt> G_DEBUG=not-fatal-criticals or so
<desrt> so people could easily work around
<desrt> anyway... cyphermox wants lunch now
<seb128> I think it's a social issue more than a technical one
<desrt> time to go :)
<seb128> the people who care should opt in
<desrt> seb128: i agree.
<seb128> desrt, enjoy!
<desrt> but ya... bye :)
<larsu> from desrt: the people who don't care, are the ones who cause the problems. And then the people who do care, and opt-in, are not the best people to fix the problems
<larsu> if everybody was automatically opted in, then there wouldn't be a problem
<seb128> larsu, a discussion to have over beer
<seb128> larsu, I blame you and desrt for not doing opt-in, it's a bug in your code, you should have noticed it :p
 * seb128 hides
<seb128> larsu, and go for lunch before you all starve in front of your keyboards ;-)
<desrt> seb128: it's an integration problem -- nobody's fault and everybody's fault, as usual
<didrocks> robru: did you poke the archive admins about reviewing the packages in NEW?
<didrocks> robru: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+queue
<robru> didrocks, nope... in a vuds session though brb
<didrocks> seb128: you can't talk, do you have time? they should be easy ^
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> didrocks, suuuure
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> thanks!
<seb128> didrocks, hum, first on I review (unity-webapps-googleplusgames), copyright has:
<seb128> "Files: */*.png */*.svg
<seb128> Copyright: various
<seb128> License: trademark-controlled"
<seb128> which is weird
<seb128> since the source has no such files
<didrocks> seb128: I guess this is for robru ^
<seb128> could be
<didrocks> seb128: it's all robru's, I think he's going to fix all those ;)
<seb128> I guess that's not a stopper
<didrocks> yeah, it's weird
<seb128> hum, -amazon lacks a COPYING (not blocker)
<seb128> -yandexmusic
<seb128> Files: debian/*
<seb128> Copyright: 2012 The friendly pkgme.net robot
<seb128> License: public-domain
<seb128>  
<seb128> lol ;-)
<seb128> same for -wordpress
<didrocks> I think robru isn't done with webapps yet :p
<seb128> right
<seb128> didrocks, accepted indicators-client though
<didrocks> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> yw
<seb128> ok, newing the webapp ones, the issues I listed before are not stoppers but would be nice to fix
<seb128> robru, ^
<robru> seb128, didrocks: don't look at me! this is how I inherited it from alex-abreu
<didrocks> robru: we are *staring* at you!
<alex-abreu> noooo
<alex-abreu> robru, don't do finger poiting :)
<alex-abreu> pointing
<robru> seb128, which apps did you find had copyright files that referenced files that don't exist?
<robru> just googleplusgames?
<seb128> robru, no, the 5 I just newed
<seb128> I guess the copyright is all coming from the same original source
<alex-abreu> robru, seb128 we should review those and update the license indeed
<alex-abreu> seb128, yeah, it was done a bit too fast there
<alex-abreu> robru, I think that's why (at the time) I didn't include some webapps ... (e.g. g+ games)
<robru> alex-abreu, this should be your motivation to fix them all ;-)
<alex-abreu> *my* ? :) ... yeah send me a list and I can have a quick look
<seb128> cyphermox, how is the indicator-messages landing going?
<alex-abreu> feel free to share the "burden"
<cyphermox> just about done
<seb128> cyphermox, \o/
<cyphermox> seb128: it's standard jenkins/autopilot delayu
<cyphermox> as soon as it fails I'll publish
<seb128> cyphermox, no worry, I'm just making sure it lands today so people have their email client back to be working tomorrow
<cyphermox> yes, I want to land today but I didn't want to disable autopilot in case we could actually have successful results eventually
<cyphermox> it looks like ATI might not fail this time
<cyphermox> so I'm just waiting to see what the results will be
<cyphermox> seb128: ^
<seb128> cyphermox, ok, as long as it's built by tomorrow morning I'm happy ;-)
<mterry> ChrisTownsend, so I'm testing your Ubuntu One patches to duplicity for inclusion in saucy/raring
<mterry> ChrisTownsend, they don't seem to change anything.  I still get 500 errors
<ChrisTownsend> mterry: Well, it doesn't address the real problem of why errors are occurring, it just gives it a chance for the retries to actually work by resetting the file pointer back to the beginning of the file.
<ChrisTownsend> mterry: I'm not sure why the errors occur.
<ChrisTownsend> mterry: Before, the retries would always fail because of the file pointer.
<mterry> ChrisTownsend, OK.  But you made it sound like usually retrying will allow DD to continue, but I'm still reliably getting the error.  This is on GET requests
<ChrisTownsend> mterry: I was reliably getting 404 Bad Request errors on retry.  Now it works mostly better, but I have seen the retries even fail on occasion.
<ChrisTownsend> mterry: So my fix supposedly addresses those 404 errors by resetting the file pointer and resending out a good request.
<ChrisTownsend> mterry: Perhaps we should still have the U1 team involved on why other errors are occurring???
<mterry> ChrisTownsend, maybe... but I still suspect it's something we're doing client-side, since only 13.04 shows the bug
<mterry> ChrisTownsend, maybe we're signing the oauth stuff bad or something like that
<ChrisTownsend> mterry: Hmm, yeah.  About 95% of the time now, I can get through a backup now where before, it would always fail.
<ChrisTownsend> mterry: So you said you see 500 errors and not 404's?
<ChrisTownsend> mterry: Probably more than one bug on this one.
<mterry> ChrisTownsend, mine are 500s yeah
<mterry> ChrisTownsend, will look into it my 500s
<ChrisTownsend> mterry: That's a generic Internal Server Error which is different than what I was chasing.
<ChrisTownsend> mterry: Cool, let me know if I can help anymore.
<sil2100> thomi: ping!
<sil2100> thomi: hi!
<sil2100> thomi: so, actually even after merging in my branch, there are still around 10 failures in autopilot
<sil2100> thomi: https://code.launchpad.net/~autopilot/autopilot/more_ap_ap_test_fixes/+merge/164037
<sil2100> Here's a branch in progress that we can co-work on, the description has the path to the latest AP run with my merges merged in
<sil2100> thomi: you think you could find some time to look at those fixes, add them to this branch and maybe even get it all reviewed?
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-16
<mfisch> robert_ancell: do you know why/how a packaging branch gets out of date? I thought it was all automatic
<RAOF> mfisch: Bugs in the package importer.
<mfisch> for those packages do we fallback to the old style of just attaching a debdiff to the bug?
<RAOF> Yup.
<mfisch> RAOF: one more question, when we hold patches for a package and then they're no longer needed because debian or upstream takes them, do we just sync from debian and lose the changelog entries?
<RAOF> Yup.
<RAOF> If we no longer need the divergence from Debian, we sync and lose any Ubuntu changelog.
<mfisch> okay cool
<mfisch> theres certainly no reason to hold a divergence just for a changelog
<mfisch> findutils, for example, took all our changes in debian/experimental
<RAOF> Sync away!
<mfisch> I thought we sync'd from unstable
<RAOF> We can sync from any Debian series; the autosync syncs from unstable (or, sometimes, testing).
<mfisch> okay let me write up a sync request later
<RAOF> You're aware of ârequestsyncâ?
<mfisch> yep
<mfisch> I'm in the middle of another merge right now, but I will do it later
<swiss> so, i have an issue with online-accounts. They won't hook in with the lenses
<mfisch> swiss: most of the team is probably in bed at this hour unfortunatel
<swiss> mfisch: well, i've switched over to gnome3 for now, so it's not urgent
<swiss> and i don't part, i'm hooked in through my server
<mfisch> swiss: did you ever file a bug?
<swiss> i've seen enough similar bugs that i was wondering if i had done something stupid first
<swiss> and I don't like submitting incomplete data
<mfisch> strace data will be better than 99% of bugs filed
<swiss> yeah, but i can give better data if needed. I want someone to be able to look at the bug, and not have to ask any more questions
<mfisch> understand
<mfisch> more people will be around tomorrow during uds hours
<swiss> kk
<pitti> Good morning
<swiss> mornin
<darkxst> pitti, hi
<darkxst> apport is not working for me atm, when trying to process crash reports
<darkxst> it doesnt seem to be crashing as stuff, just silently exiting when it should be uploading
<pitti> darkxst: it uploads to errors.u.c.
<pitti> we haven't enabled LP crash reports yet
<pitti> eventually we only want it to report to errors.u.c.
<darkxst> pitti, oh I meant via ubuntu-bug
<pitti> bug reports should go to LP; crash reports not
<darkxst> ok
<ricotz> pitti, good morning :)
<didrocks> robru: you are making my life hard btw! :)
 * didrocks wonders if he should put "udaily"
<robru> didrocks, how can you say that?? this problem was caused by security team uploading direct to distro!
<didrocks> robru: heh, I know, just kidding and trying to make you feel guilty :p
<didrocks> robru: I didn't want to support those 42ubuntu1 TBH ;)
<didrocks> robru: so as I can do -> 42daily<blahblah>
<didrocks> because d < u
<didrocks> I think I'll be forced to do:
<didrocks> 42udaily<blahblah>
<didrocks> until we bump to 43
<didrocks> for instance
<didrocks> robru: making sense? (yeah for ugly version :/)
<robru> didrocks, it makes sense, but I think we're actually ok right now because the offending versions are 2.2ubuntu1 and we're already at 2.4.x
<didrocks> robru: yeah, I added the support in case we don't bump though
<didrocks> we never know how ugly things like that can happen apparently :p
<robru> didrocks, yeah. maybe "zdaily" or something ;-)
<didrocks> robru: heh, like "you can get higher than I": zzzzzzzzzdaily :p
<sarnold> oh sure, force us to use Zdaily to overwrite your packages.. :-P
<didrocks> ;)
<robru> sarnold, if you are making daily packages that are more frequent than ours....
 * didrocks just needs to create a test for the download part now
<sarnold> robru: haha :)
<Mirv> didrocks: morn
<didrocks> good morning Mirv!
<didrocks> robru: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/WebApps/job/cu2d-webapp-head-1.1prepare-unity-webapps-facebookapps/
<didrocks> robru: so in prod and working :)
<robru> great
<robru> didrocks, did you run the whole stack?
<didrocks> robru: I let the nightly daily happening, so only rerun those 2 (the whole stack ran a couple of hours ago)
<didrocks> robru: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/WebApps/job/cu2d-webapp-head-2.1build/92/console
<didrocks> so if everything builds fine, we'll get it :)
<robru> didrocks, where can I find the build log? (as opposed to the *source* package build log, which is what I'm seeing in jenkins).
<didrocks> robru: in the ppa
<didrocks> robru: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build
<didrocks> like https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4582836 ;)
<robru> didrocks, ok, great. that's where we have to look to see what the lint script complains about.
<didrocks> robru: exactly. Basically, the build really happens in the ppa (to have the same configuration than distro)
<robru> I guess at this point we should review the lint script and decide which problems should be fatal (currently it only warns and never fails the build regardless of what problems it finds)
<didrocks> robru: what daily release is doing is preparing the source package, checking everything, monitoring the build, the integration tests and then eventually publishing
<robru> yeah
<didrocks> robru: right, the lint script should abort the package build IMHO if we get "this is fatal"
<robru> didrocks, yeah, I agree, but I haven't had time to figure out what is really fatal and what isn't ;-)
<robru> so it only warns right now
<robru> oh, I see a problem though
<robru> make[1]: /usr/share/unity-webapps/tools/po2json.py: Command not found
<robru> that's not so good... that's provided by unity-webapps-dev
<jibel> good morning
<robru> didrocks, and without it, the built package actually is broken in chromium...
<robru> hi jibel
<didrocks> salut jibel
<jibel> Hey robru, didrocks
<didrocks> robru: is this in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/139996744/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-i386.unity-webapps-facebookapps_2.4daily13.05.16-0ubuntu1_UPLOADING.txt.gz? I grep for po2json and find nothing
<robru> didrocks,
<robru> $ dpkg -S /usr/share/unity-webapps/tools/po2json.py
<robru> unity-webapps-dev: /usr/share/unity-webapps/tools/po2json.py
<didrocks> robru: I mean, I don't see your make error on the above log
<robru> didrocks, oh, right, that one is good actually
<didrocks> robru: can it be that you invoke directly the script and you don't have python installed in the other one?
<robru> didrocks, you should grep for PLACEHOLDER. if you see sed replacing the PLACEHOLDER with emptiness, then that's very, very bad. in that log you linked, the PLACEHOLDER gets replaced with '%7B%7D', that's fine (just means no translation data is available for that app). some apps with translations will have a huge blob there instead.
<robru> didrocks, nope, can't be, because they all have identical debian/rules (provided by -dev package itself), and that is where po2json.py is called from
<didrocks> robru: do you have a link to the log having that failing?
<robru> didrocks,  https://launchpadlibrarian.net/139992170/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-i386.unity-webapps-facebookmessenger_2.4.12daily13.05.16-0ubuntu1_UPLOADING.txt.gz here for one
<didrocks> robru: python is not installed in this chroot
<didrocks> robru: the -dev package should dep on python I guess
<robru> didrocks, it does
<didrocks> so that's why it can't execute it, with vm, it doesn't work as good as it can be :-)
<robru> didrocks, oh, there was a bug in debian/control, missing comma on previous line made it not pick up the python deb. fixed in trunk. I guess rerun the stack and it should be fine.
<didrocks> robru: this is in which package?
<didrocks> the -dev one?
<didrocks> well, webapps-applications
<robru> didrocks, yes
<robru> didrocks, yes, there is a bugfix in lp;webapps-applications that fixes the deps for unity-webapps-dev to properly pull in python that should fix these package builds.
<didrocks> robru: ok, it seems it's part of this daily release
<didrocks> robru: however, we need to rebuild what didn't work on the packages depending on it
<robru> yeah
<didrocks> robru: fortunately, you have those copyright issues still to fix, right? :)
<robru> didrocks, just checking which packages failed right now
<didrocks> robru: great! :)
<robru> didrocks, what? no, I fixed that all 12 hours ago :-P
<didrocks> robru: you are too fast, ok, so a dummy commit I guess will be needed (like a changelog build to force the rebuild) :p
<robru> didrocks, actually most of them are failing...
<robru> didrocks, so far I count 21 failures and I'm not done looking yet
<robru> didrocks, no way you can just force a rebuild? I really have to make 41 trivial trunk commits?
<didrocks> robru: it's the same way than for distro
<didrocks> robru: you need to bump the debian/changelog
<robru> didrocks, ok, I am just going to go through and version bump then.
<didrocks> robru: sounds good
<didrocks> robru: I'm waiting for this run to finish first
<robru> didrocks, actually but wait, the error message isn't that python isn't found, it's that the command itself is not found...
<didrocks> robru: yeah, IIRC, that's what happens if you run a python command directly and python isn't installed
<didrocks> robru: let me confirm in a terminal, one sec
<robru> $ ./foo.py
<robru> bash: ./foo.py: /usr/bin/python4: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
<robru> $ make build
<robru> ./foo.py
<robru> make: ./foo.py: Command not found
<robru> make: *** [build] Error 127
<robru> so actually yeah, bad interpreter then
<robru> different error from make than from bash
<robru> ok, so it should work with the right deps, which are fixed in trunk.
<didrocks> robru: right, that's what I remember :)
<didrocks> robru: confirmed here as well
<didrocks> the message is really not clear
<didrocks> and I already lost some time for this :p
<didrocks> hence I remember now ;)
<robru> didrocks, do you know a way to make dch do a version bump non-interactively? like what options can I pass to it to force version 2.4.16 with message 'Version bump.'
<didrocks> robru: dch -v2.4.16-0ubuntu1 "Version bump forâ¦"
<didrocks> robru: not sure if your setup is good though, do for one and check you have "UNRELEASED"
<robru> didrocks, ok, hang on
<robru> +unity-webapps-amazon (2.4.16-0ubuntu1) UNRELEASED; urgency=low
<robru> +
<robru> +  * Version bump.
<robru> +
<robru> + -- Robert Bruce Park <robert.park@canonical.com>  Thu, 16 May 2013 00:10:27 -0700
<robru> +
<robru> looks good right?
<didrocks> robru: that looks gorgious!
<didrocks> robru: well maybe be a little bit more explcit
<robru> didrocks, you've been looking at the codes for too long ;-)
<robru> didrocks, time to get some fresh air today ;-)
<didrocks> robru: like Version bump to build against latest webapps-applications-dev
<didrocks> robru: ahah, it's raining though :/
<didrocks> robru: now, I have to switch to otto :p
<didrocks> robru: btw: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/WebApps/job/cu2d-webapp-head-3.0publish/
<didrocks> manual publication mode (I guess because of debian/copyright changes)
<didrocks> I don't publish yet, right? Let's wait for the rebuild
<robru> didrocks, yeah, definitely wait
<didrocks> ah, as well, let me add cnn-news
<didrocks> (well deploy the branch you proposed)
<didrocks> deploying*
<robru> didrocks, ok, I just started a script to push all the branches, will be ready in ~10min
<didrocks> perfect :)
<robru> (bzr uploads are slow...)
<didrocks> robru: don't tell me, I'm doing the bzr config on the remote branch (remember this bugs so that lp-propose target the right branch? :p)
<robru> heh, ouch
<robru> didrocks, I can't count how many times this month I have types "for i in *; do cd $i; bzr commit -m "foobar" && bzr push; cd ..; done
<didrocks> robru: you typed? I thought it was a script and you didn't rely on Ctrl + R ;)
<robru> it's a script that I type into my shell prompt every time I need it ;-)
<didrocks> heh
<didrocks> but the cleaning you've done to the packaging is awesome
<didrocks> good work!
<robru> thank you!
<didrocks> also, nice to see we won't revert security fixes again :)
<robru> didrocks, well, probably the security team should be told to get their fixes accepted in trunk...
<didrocks> robru: well, in ubuntu, everyone has upload rights
<robru> I mean, I understand the urgency of getting things fixed in distro and pushed to users, but that one fix was just never committed to trunk, that's terrifying.
<didrocks> robru: so, you can't be sure people are committing to the vcs (if attached)
<didrocks> but yeah, this one should have been backported for sure
<pitti> hey ricotz
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<pitti> hello robru
<robru> didrocks, this is actually a really serious problem I think. There's this big mysterious "archive" that is somehow separate from the VCS... we should just drop the archive and declare "whatever is in trunk VCS *IS* the archive", so you want something in the archive you get it in trunk
<robru> pitti, hi
<didrocks> salut pitti!
<didrocks> robru: yeah, the archive should always be authorative, that was the taken decision when we started to have our Vcs (for desktop team or anything else)
<ricotz> pitti, i was hoping you have a moment for libreoffice ppa builder tweaking ;), but i hope they work out already
<didrocks> robru: but I agree with you that Vcs should be the main source :) However, it means, we would need to fix perms everywhere
<didrocks> robru: as it blurries the line between distro maintainers and upstream devs
<didrocks> not an easy topic :)
<pitti> ricotz: sure
<ricotz> pitti, so i might ping you later if they are failing on the current builders
<robru> didrocks, no no, not saying we merge upstream trunks with distro vcs, definitely there needs separation there. just that the archive itself needs to be in a public VCS that can be seen and have MP's proposed against in a meaningful way. not this "oh, here's an MP, please merge it, build it, upload it, sponsor it..."
<didrocks> robru: yeah, some people tried that 3 years ago, but it never reached to a point it was working top notch
<didrocks> robru: those are the lp:ubuntu/<package> branch
<robru> didrocks, yeah, backwards approach I think. lp:ubuntu/* tries to mirror what's in the archive. I think it needs to *BE* the archive.
<didrocks> quite complicated as 75% of the packages are coming from Debian
<didrocks> so from the archive :)
<robru> bah
<robru> didrocks, then debian needs to get itself hosted on launchpad ;-)
<didrocks> ahah :)
<didrocks> robru: want to start the discussion on debian ML?
<robru> didrocks, why do I have to do all the work? clearly this idea is brilliant and devs should be flocking to it ;-)
<Mirv> robru: a bit related, support for Debian package building in PPAs has been a very wished item for a long time, I wish someone would have time to implement that
<didrocks> robru: ahah, that's a manager's view :)
<didrocks> robru: well done :p
<robru> didrocks, great, time to promote me ;-)
<didrocks> robru: please, do a powerpoint with a plan :p
<Mirv> we don't have much perks for Debian devs to come to LP at the moment, including that plus lack of git support
<robru> didrocks, is there time to host a session about this tomorrow? ;-)
<didrocks> heh
 * didrocks plans, set robru as leading the session
<robru> Mirv, yeah, I wouldn't mind being able to build debian debs in my PPAs, for sure
<robru> Mirv, what would "git support" look like? some kind of bridge to allow git tools to access bzr repos? or real git repos hosted on lp?
<Mirv> robru: either a very transparent bridge but probably real support so that one could easily merge from Debian packaging git:s to LP and vice versa
<Mirv> for example with Qt I'm now manually managing Debian git vs Ubuntu bzr
<robru> bah
<Mirv> some teams like X team do have Ubuntu packaging in Debian git actually, but it wouldn't hurt that there wouldn't be that barrier between Debian and LP
<robru> Mirv, I had a real nasty issue recently just within LP, it wouldn't let me merge a +junk branch back into a real project branch even though it did share history. the +junk branch lost it's knowledge of it's heritage, and bzr couldn't merge them in spite of the fact that the commit histories were identical. had to manually copy files from one branch to another and re-commit.
<robru> frankly I prefer git, git would have seen the common commit history and merged happily ;-)
<Mirv> robru: I've gotten past such issues at times by pushing the same branch into another location. ie. first gotten "this branch cannot be merged into xxx", then after pushing into second location merge proposal has been possible
<robru> hmmm
<didrocks> robru: btw, can I rerun the whole stack?
<robru> didrocks, oh... well I didn't version bump libunity-webapps or anything, is that a problem? I did bump all of unity-webapps-* though, those definitely need to be rebuilt
<didrocks> robru: that's fine I guess, we already have the needed version in the ppa :)
<robru> didrocks, ok, so rerun it then ;-)
 * didrocks click *the* button
<didrocks> clicks*
<Mirv> didrocks: sergiusens by the way asked about if all packages have been rebuilt in daily-build-next after the new Qt. it seems to me most Qt related packages, a couple haven't yet.
<didrocks> Mirv: they need a commit to be rebuilt, mind pushing something to them? (there is also something to clean up)
<BigWhale> I found an awesome way how to crash unity/compiz! :)
<Mirv> didrocks: ok, I'll look at if some relevant package would use a push
<Mirv> BigWhale: :P
<BigWhale> Have a program icon on the desktop.
<BigWhale> Have a program icon on the desktop, drag it to Launcher, delete the icon on the desktop, move the icon in Launcher.
<didrocks> Trevinho: this is for you! ^
<didrocks> BigWhale: a bug number (or looking for one, would be awesome!)
<BigWhale> didrocks, I'll look into this now... :)
<seb128> hey desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> didrocks, lut, ouais, tjs gris et pluvieux mais ca va ... et toi, Lyon?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va bien! par contre, arrÃªte de partager ta pluie, Ã§a va, j'ai compris hein! :p
<Laney> morning
<seb128> didrocks, alright, you can get sun back tomorrow :p
<seb128> Laney, good morning!
<didrocks> really? last time I checked, it wasn't really optimistic
 * didrocks looks
<didrocks> well, far from stellarâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, it's a bit better tomorrow, really better starting next tuesday...
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/1108056/comments/28
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1108056 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "fetching URLs freezes pidgin" [Undecided,Confirmed]
 * Laney runs
<seb128> Laney, isn't that the indicator-messages bug that we fixed yesterday?
<seb128> the same as tb
<Laney> likely :-)
<seb128> wfm since at least
<Laney> just thought it'd be worth checking
<Laney> did pidgin break too for you?
<seb128> nobody messaged me
<seb128> let me give it a try
<robru> *yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn*... 'night gents
<seb128> robru, 'night
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, salut, Ã§a va ?
<pitti> seb128: Ã§a va bien, et toi?
<seb128> pitti, Ã§a va bien merci, toujours de la pluie ici par contre :/
<pitti> :(
<pitti> ici aussi aujourd'hui
<seb128> pitti, are you online on icq?
 * seb128 is looking for somebody to im me to test that pidgin/libmessaging bug
<pitti> seb128: no, I stopped using icq years ago, I got too much spam
<seb128> but jabber doesn't behave
<pitti> seb128: I can log in
<seb128> pitti, it you could just send me a test message that would be nice
<seb128> if*
<pitti> hm, how do I add an ICQ account these days?
<seb128> don't bother if you don't have it configured
<seb128> I will wait a bit to have jabber back
<czajkowski> ICQ still exists?
<seb128> pitti, but if you need that at some point, you need to run empathy-accounts I think
<pitti> ooh
<pitti> that's indeed not the one that I get from the menu in empathy
<seb128> you get the integrated online accounts by default
<robert_ancell> seb128, hello :)
<seb128> it's just that icq doesn't have a telepathy connector
<seb128> it's going through haze and libpidgin
<robert_ancell> people still use ICQ?
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey, how are you?
<seb128> robert_ancell, got my email? ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey, good. Thought I'd say hello since I'm around this time
<seb128> robert_ancell, very few, I still have one friend using it regularly
<robert_ancell> yes...
<seb128> robert_ancell, I'm glad IS figured out that versions was slow because you were DoSing the debian web viewvc UI :p
<robert_ancell> It didn't seem like that many requests...
<Laney> they must have throttled us ages ago
<seb128> the web ui sucks apparently
<Laney> how did it only just come up now
<robert_ancell> seb128, did you see the MP from mfisch? It changed the Debian links
<seb128> robert_ancell, no, I didn't, I guess I don't receive email for those
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, you might have to opt-in
<robert_ancell> I set all the ownerships to ~ubuntu-desktop but I think LP defaults to not notifying (we have the same problem in Mir)
<seb128> seems like a feature
<seb128> I wouldn't like to spam the whole team
<robert_ancell> seb128, I'd prefer opt-out because people miss things and it's not obvious how to opt-in
<seb128> that's right
<pitti> seb128: sorry, seems my ICQ account doesn't work any more, or I don't remember the password
<seb128> pitti, don't worry, I will wait to have somebody showing up on jabber
<seb128> seems like I've half the people I usually have there
<Laney> for some reason I can remember my ICQ UIN despite not having used it for about 10 years
<seb128> I guess some server side issue on jabber.org
<pitti> seb128: I am in jabber
<seb128> ah, jabber is finally listing more people
<seb128> I can see a didrocks
<didrocks> I think it's google+ :)
<seb128> didrocks, can you reply?
<seb128> didrocks, need to test that bug
<pitti> hm, jabber doesn't seem to work for me ATM either
<didrocks> interesting, I don't even see that you pinged me on any tab (in fact, I don't have a g+ page open)
<seb128> didrocks, it's maybe your phone or tablet?
<didrocks> seb128: ok, please try to ping me
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, probably my phone
<didrocks> hum noâ¦
<didrocks> seb128: just try, I have a tab opened now
<seb128> bah, got disconnected, jabber.org sucks
<seb128> ah,  back
<seb128> didrocks, pinged you
<pitti> ah, now
<seb128> (Pidgin:4551): GLib-GIO-ERROR **: g_menu_item_set_detailed_action: Detailed action name 'im:prpl-jabber:seb128%40jabber.org%2F:pitti%40jabber.org%2F06baa216' has invalid format
<seb128> Laney, ^
<Laney> so still there
<didrocks> seb128: nothingâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: can you ping me again?
<seb128> Laney, no, that was the old libmessaging-menu0 to confirm the bug
<pitti> done
<seb128> works
<didrocks> seseI'm trying to look for you first, not sure with the new interface :p
<Laney> ah
<seb128> Laney, it's fixed
<Laney> great
<didrocks> seb128: pinged
<seb128> didrocks, doesn't work
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> new g+ doesn't work well for me
<seb128> the hangout sidebar contain a "connect to talk to your friends" label with a "connect" button
<seb128> which opens a new win, which tells me "you are logged in now, close that win and refresh the page you were on"
<seb128> but that doesn't work
<seb128> still get the same button
<seb128> so I can't log in
<seb128> which means I can't create an hangout
<seb128> will be fun for vUDS later...
<Laney> tried in chromium?
<seb128> Laney, of course it works in chromium (though I'm using a personal account and not a canonical one there and the login process seems different since the login button sends me on an ubuntu.com url for auth)
<Laney> ah, so could be some SSO interaction problem
<seb128> is anyone using g+ canonical's account under firefox herE?
<seb128> pitti, ^?
<Laney> let me try
<seb128> or did you all go chromium?
<pitti> seb128: no, I'm firmly firefox
<pitti> hangouts work again, too
<Laney> no, I just never use my C google account really
<seb128> pitti, hangouts bar is working for you?
<pitti> nope, 'Unable to sign in"
<seb128> :-(
<pitti> for UDS I'll use my "public" account
<pitti> (there it works)
<seb128> bah
<seb128> I don't want UDS videos to be posted on my personal account
<seb128> I try to keep the work one for work
<Laney> yeah, seems broken
<Laney> #is probably want to know
<seb128> *great*
<seb128> yeah, I'm telling them
<seb128> same issue in chromium
<didrocks> robru: webapps published
<seb128> pitti, hey, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/134293864/xwiimote_0.3%2B20120630-2_0.3%2B20120630-2ubuntu1.diff.gz ... did you send that to Debian or upstream? (not sure if that diff is Ubuntu specific for some reason?)
<pitti> seb128: ah, not yet, thanks for reminding
<seb128> pitti, yw
<mlankhorst> seb128: who should be approver for  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-s-xorg-general ?
<seb128> mlankhorst, jason or me, pick one ;-)
<mlankhorst> I'll select you for being in the same timezone
<mlankhorst> it's not you jason, it's me!
<Laney> playing with fire there
<seb128> :-)
<mlankhorst> it is kind of hard to talk with people in different timezones on a regular sleep schedule, though :)
<ogra_> give up on that schedule then :P
<mlankhorst> but then I wouldn't wake up at 7 any more
<ogra_> depends which 7 you mean :)
<mlankhorst> 07:00
<Laney> it'll be close to 7am in some timezone :-)
<pitti> didrocks, jibel: ah, so by default there are indeed only 8 loop devices pre-created, one needs to request new ones from /dev/loop-control
<pitti> (https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/7/26/148)
<didrocks> pitti: ah thanks, I had a script for that, but better to be able to put in a configuration file :)
<pitti> jibel, didrocks: I confirm that "lxc-wait -s STOPPED" triggers on a reboot
<pitti> beyond that I cannot really tell much, due to the "stopping lightdm messes up vt7" issue
<pitti> (neither restarting lightdm nor rebooting the container really works due to that)
<pitti> stgraber: ^ did you find that on your system as well?
<pitti> stgraber: i. e. trying to reboot the container or restarting lightdm makes VTs unusable, and X.org doesn't really come back either
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, confirming, and lxc doesn't see the container running as well after the reboot
<didrocks> (checked by ssh)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what's is wrong with your country? ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, uploads
<seb128> ups
<seb128> chrisccoulson, http://www.atinternet.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/navigateurs-201304-2.png
<seb128> safari first? then i.e
<seb128> then chrome
<seb128> ...
<ogra_> mobile ?
<seb128> ogra_, no
<chrisccoulson> i'm surprised at that
<mdeslaur> that almost doesn't make sense
<seb128> yeah, it's weird for the u.k case
<seb128> I can believe the other countries there
<chrisccoulson> perhaps this is only counting people in the uk visiting french sites? ;)
<mdeslaur> hehe
<seb128> lol
<seb128> they say there looked at 9096 websites
<seb128> but not which ones
<ogra_> apple.fr :)
<seb128> what else? :p
<ogra_> and its 9095 subpages
<cyphermox> good morning!
<mterry> Is thunderbird crashy for anyone else?
<Laney> do you have current libmessaging-menu0?
<mterry> Laney, ah sort of.  I have daily-build-next version.  That may screw things up
<czajkowski> mterry: no works fine, but closing it and then reopening it tends to make it unhappy so itneeds to be killed
<Laney> mterry: depends if it has larsu's fix from yesterday
<Laney> bad interaction with new glbi
<Laney> glib
<Laney> assuming saucy etc
<mterry> Laney, ah OK
<geser> seb128 (or anyone else): could you go a give-back of file-roller on i386 and amd64 please? looks like LP lost track of those builds (no build log available)
<Laney> k
<Laney> (asking what went wrong first)
<mdeslaur> seb128: is anyone working on bug 1174740 ? (it's pretty annoying...)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1174740 in Online Accounts: GNOME Control Center "online-accounts-preferences crashes when accounts need access granted" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1174740
<Laney> mdeslaur: I can upload that patch
<Laney> does it fix it for you?
<mdeslaur> Laney: I haven't tried it
<seb128> mdeslaur, isn't that fixed in saucy?
<mdeslaur> seb128: I don't know, I'm on raring
<Laney> the patch is from 9 days ago so I guess not ...
<mdeslaur> seb128: you know, the current release :)
<Laney> ah, already cherry-picked
<seb128> mdeslaur, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/139777904/empathy_3.6.4-0ubuntu4.1_source.changes
<seb128> mdeslaur, typical sru team delay...
<mdeslaur> seb128: ah, yes, thanks. I'll dupe the bugs.
<seb128> mdeslaur, I uploaded to both
<seb128> mdeslaur, I would appreciate confirmation that the fix works if you want to rebuild the one from the queue?
<mdeslaur> seb128: sure, I'll test it in a minute
<seb128> thanks
<bcurtiswx> anyone else having facebook auth browser popups using online accounts ?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, facebook.com bug
<bcurtiswx> seb128, ok, thanks
<seb128> bcurtiswx, https://developers.facebook.com/bugs/449221825171392
<bcurtiswx> yeah that seems to be it
<Laney> bah
<Laney> new glib breaks skype too
<Laney> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698716
<ubot2> Gnome bug 698716 in build "Use of g_mem_set_vtable() breaks after gobject automatic init ctor" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
 * Laney thinks chrisccoulson would enjoy that bug
<Laney> linker voodoo
<seb128> Laney, "nice"
<Laney> yeah ... at least there seems to be one commit which we can do away with if necessary
<Laney> desrt: ^ thoughts?
<jcastro> seb128: man, I kind of miss music player sessions
<jcastro> haha, just kidding
<seb128> jcastro, you should put a banshee by default on the schedule for next vUDS!
<seb128> still using it? ;-)
<Laney> why wouldn't you be? it's still better :-)
<jcastro> I use spotify/google play, heresy I know.
<Laney> used rb to test my upload today/yesterday
<Laney> it was a grim time
 * Laney snuggles up to Gabriel Burt
<Laney> </troll>
<highvoltage> clementine!
<seb128> is that yet another of the kde app that want to install a mysql server to stock your song infos? :p
<highvoltage> well technically it's not a kde app.
<seb128> it's bloated in the kde tradition though ;-)
<highvoltage> but it's inspired by old versions of amarok (when it was still good)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, must stop drinking coffee
<seb128> chrisccoulson, right you are, it's beer time!
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i might need some beer to round off the edginess of the coffee
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how many coffee did you drink?!
<chrisccoulson> seb128, 8 so far today
<seb128> urg
<TheMuso> I have been drinking 4-5 cups of tea each morning this week during VUDS.
<TheMuso> So I'm probably on a similar track. :)
<robru> didrocks, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/140003067/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-i386.unity-webapps-amazon_2.4.16daily13.05.16-0ubuntu1_UPLOADING.txt.gz grep for PLACEHOLDER in there, now THAT's what we want to see in a successful webapps build ;-)
<didrocks> robru: but but butâ¦ that's crazy! :)
<didrocks> robru: it's a json file?
<didrocks> right? ;)
<didrocks> robru: btw, you did see that it all landed! :-)
<robru> didrocks, yeah. it's a json dict mapping language codes -> msgids -> msgstrs, so basically just a translation table. because we needed gettext support inside the userscripts and there was no tool for that, so we just dump in by hand and write some js for interpreting it.
<robru> didrocks, yeah! so excited that it's all finally done ;-)
<didrocks> robru: next step is having autopilot tests! :-)
<robru> didrocks, yeah, we need to pester vrruiz about that more ;-)
<didrocks> robru: but first, get all your stack green! everyday :)
<didrocks> yep ;)
<pitti> didrocks: looking at your recent otto commits -- did you tell your editor to have a tab width of 4 or so? you keep ruining the indentation :)
<didrocks> pitti: on the shell scripts? yeah, it replaces tab with spaces
<didrocks> (and 4)
<pitti> didrocks: (no big deal, but it looks systematic)
<didrocks> pitti: I think we should have spaces in the shell script, wdyt?
<pitti> didrocks: I don't care much, as long as the indentation is consistant
<didrocks> pitti: ok, adding an item to look at that tomorrow and do a big sed in that case :)
<didrocks> pitti: thanks for noticing
<pitti> didrocks: no worries, just wanted to ask whether you have some broken setting in some editor
<didrocks> pitti: well, it's a standard "replace tabs with 4 spaces"
<didrocks> pitti: and when I'm navigating the file, I see only spaces
<didrocks> that's why I didn't notice
<pitti> (fixed)
<didrocks> pitti: thanks!
<didrocks> pitti: it's all space now? ;)
<pitti> didrocks: de rien, but you really should fix that to be 8
<seb128> it's not friday yet
<pitti> yeah, all spaces
<didrocks> pitti: I give you 6
<pitti> seb128: c'mon, it's EOUDS beer o'clock
<seb128> let's wait tomorrow for emacs being better than vim at handling those stuff :p
<didrocks> not more
<seb128> pitti, you have a point there ;-)
 * pitti hugs didrocks and seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * didrocks hugs pitti and seb128
<pitti> and watching Daviey sorta puts you into a funny mood
<TheMuso> seb128: Yes it is. :p
<seb128> I'm glad we had a sprint recently, or I would be really deprecated by the end of vUDS now
<didrocks> pitti: unfortunately, my ISP provider is limiting the youtube bandwith in the evening :(
<didrocks> pitti: so it's cuttingâ¦
 * didrocks can't follow the plenary
<pitti> didrocks: sheesh
<didrocks> pitti: they want google to pay for the bandwithâ¦
<didrocks> you know net neutrality
<pitti> yeah, that great thing we used to have
<didrocks> anyway, so can't follow the plenary :/
 * didrocks waves good evening then!
<pitti> didrocks: bonne nuit!
<seb128> pitti, french company that think they can twist google arms ... google luck ;-)
<didrocks> pitti: Ã  demain ;)
<seb128> 'night didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: see you tomorrow!
<seb128> night
<pitti> c'est Ã§a !
<pitti> bonne nuit tout le monde
<sil2100> fginther: Fraaanciiis! Heeelp!
<sil2100> Or hm, wait
<sil2100> Scratch that
<sil2100> alesage: Allaaaan!
<sil2100> alesage: you around?
<alesage> sil2100, how can I help?
<sil2100> alesage: so, we have a unity branch that we want to merge in pretty soon, and I was kindly asking CI to run against it, but I get an error like: 'Cannot enable coverage targets because gcovr was not found.', since it seems that there is a B10gcovr_run hook enabled
<sil2100> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/unity-raring-armhf-ci/63/console
<sil2100> alesage: I'm not familiar with those parts, but what happened that suddenly it's missing gcovr?
<sil2100> alesage: is it a problem with the packaging?
<alesage> sil2100, give me a minute to investigate
<sil2100> alesage: thanks
<sil2100> https://code.launchpad.net/~stolowski/unity/smartscopes-into-trunk/+merge/164227 <- here's the merge request
<alesage> sil2100, there are a couple of fixes, one is on our side, so fear not :)
<sil2100> Ah, I see something indeed changed
<alesage> sil2100, what changed?
<sil2100> alesage: I see there is a change in CMakeLists.txt related to gcovr and lcov
<sil2100> alesage: line 21 of the diff in the MR
<alesage> ok sil2100 if you'd like to add these to packaging, that seems correct to moi
<alesage> was just checking to see if the build config had changed (on our side)
<alesage> quite a merge btw :)
<sil2100> Yes ;) Anyway, what package should I exactly add to the packaging if anything?
<alesage> sil2100, gcovr and lcov
<sil2100> alesage: hm, would it be possible to disable coverage for now, temporarily, for this branch?
<alesage> sil2100, entirely up to you--you'd just have to revert this change in the CMakeLists.txt I believe
<sil2100> I wonder how this worked before in the other branch, hmmm
<alesage> sil2100, I can help you--do we have a few minutes or like 30 minutes?
<sil2100> Soon I would be going to sleep, as it's past midnight here, but I want to have this in anyway ;)
<sil2100> I was wondering if the gcovr hook could be disabled in CI
<sil2100> Since something has to enable the coverage profile for this build, hmmm
<alesage> sil2100, one min
<sil2100> As I see H10enable_coverage and B10gcovr_run in the hooks :)
<sil2100> alesage: I see that these changes never had coverage enabled before, so that's why it never failed in the custom branches - now that we're merging this big piece of code, suddenly it fails during coverage
<sil2100> But I would think that we could fix that in some other merge
<alesage> sil2100, yes it's now kind-of baked in to the prepare step (in CMakeLists.txt)
<alesage> sil2100, if you'll give me 10 mins I'll attempt a fixed build, ok?
<sil2100> alesage: ACK ;) Thanks!
<alesage> sil2100, I've got a build in progress and this quick fix passes configure where we were failing before https://pastebin.canonical.com/91201/
<alesage> here's that build in progress (if you're on the Canonical VPN) https://pastebin.canonical.com/91201/
<alesage> oopsies sil2100 here: http://10.97.2.10:8080/job/unity-raring-amd64-ci/66/console
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-17
<mfisch> seb128: I looked at the merge for gnome-system-monitor with debian, there's nothing worth merging yet, they took some control file changes from us, that's all really
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hey pitti
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> salut jibel!
<jibel> salut didrocks
<didrocks> robru: you will still need to get it deployed ;)
<didrocks> robru: so please get kenvandine to do that ;)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, salut, trÃ¨s bien, c'est vendredi !
<seb128> pitti, et toi ?
<pitti> seb128: je vais bien aussi. j'attends avec impatience le long week-end
<seb128> oui, moi aussi, par contre il pleut encore aujourd'hui :-(
<robru> didrocks, yeah, I'll talk to ken tomorrow ;-)
<didrocks> robru: you mean today, right? ;)
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<seb128> didrocks, lut
<robru> didrocks, nah... if I have to sleep before then, it still counts as "tomorrow" ;-)
<didrocks> robru: tssss, my time clock doesn't agree, we'll still be the same day! :-)
<didrocks> people on the wrong side of the worldâ¦ :p
<mitya57> km
<mitya57> oops, wrong channel
<seb128> mitya57, if that was your password, you need a stronger one :p
<mitya57> seb128: it was wrong usage of Android keyboard actually :)
<Laney> morning
<seb128> Laney, hey, happy friday!
<Laney> yay, happy friday to you too!
<chrisccoulson> hoppy friday!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, happy rainy friday to you!
<Laney> ooh hops
<chrisccoulson> did cyphermox ever make progress with the nm-applet bug, where the menu stops responding to anything or updating?
<chrisccoulson> it's annoying, it happens to me several times per day atm ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/780602/comments/103
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 780602 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu Quantal) "nm-applet leaks memory" [High,Fix released]
<chrisccoulson> seb128, want some help? :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you should ask cyphermox but it seems like help would be welcome yes ;-)
<chrisccoulson> this issue is seriously annoying now. every time i dock or undock and want to change network configuration, i have to restart nm-applet ;)
<seb128> ah, that works?
<seb128> I got the bug during the sprint, I fallbacked to use the control center panel to pick my wifi aps :p
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, restarting nm-applet works
<chrisccoulson> but i have to do that every morning and every evening
<seb128> nice
<Laney> hasn't annoyed me so much because nm automatically does what i want it to
<seb128> well "nice", but good to have somebody able to reproduce the issue
<seb128> I run into that but like once every 3 months
<Laney> but i'm hitting it atm indeed
<Laney> seb128: want to check gsd out of bzr and see if it fixes the permissions for you?
<seb128> Laney, sure
<Laney> seems to work here
<seb128> Laney, worked here with my test user and the patch seems fine to me, +1 for upload ;-)
<Laney> rocking
<Laney> doing that
<dpm> hi pitti, we're testing translations for the clock app on a device with  Ubuntu Touch. We changed /etc/default/locale to fr_FR.UTF-8, but that didn't seem to make any change. Calling the app with LANGUAGE=fr did. What's the best place to define the system language? And the user language?
<seb128> dpm, language-selector writes the locale config to ~/.pam_environment
<pitti> dpm: I guess you either didn't restart your session or have the lang defined in ... what seb128 said?
<seb128> dpm, check /etc/environment as well
<pitti> dpm: if you never heard of .pam_environment you can safely delete that file, then it'll fall back to the system-wide default
<dpm> great, thanks seb128. pitti I think that must have been it, thanks! /etc/environment on my desktop seems to contain only PATH
<pitti> as it should
<seb128> dpm, that seems about right, I was pointing it in case, it has been used in the path to store LANG and stuff iirc
<dpm> ok, cool
<seb128> not sure if some configs have leftovers there
<dpm> I think we'll just have to write to /etc/default/locale and restart the session
<seb128> "we"?
<pitti> dpm: if you just want this for testing, you can also export LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8 (or whatever), and start the app from that terminal
<dpm> seb128, I'm testing this with oSoMon on a device. "we" it's actually him, as I don't have a device atm :)
<seb128> dpm, ok, I was unsure if you wanted to make a touch app change system defaults or something, that would be wrong
<dpm> seb128, no, that's for a demo of Ubuntu Touch in Simplified Chinese. We've only got localizations for a few core apps, and would like to set either the user's or system locale to zh_CN.UTF-8 to load those
<seb128> dpm, seems good to me, good luck with that ;-)
<dpm> thanks, it's looking good apart from figuring out where to set the locale, apparently :)
<dpm> pitti, yeah, that's what he did when he called the app with LANGUAGE. We're trying to set the language not per-app, but rather per-user or system-wide, whatever is easier/makes more sense
<pitti> dpm: both make sense in different scenarios; on a (essential) single-user system like phone you probably want /etc/default/locale, though
<dpm> pitti, ok, we'll do that for the demo, then
<pitti> dpm: note that all that can be done through accountsservice, which hides the actual files to be touched and their format, and on phones we can also allow (via policykit) that normal users can change /etc/default/locale
<pitti> (not sure whether we have accountsservice on the phone)
<seb128> not sure if it's there yet, but it's planned and we will use it in system settings
<dpm> pitti, yeah, that'd be for when we've got everything there and we want to make things properly. But for the demo purposes, we can just write to /etc/default/locale? Or is there any part of that infrastructure we can use already?
<pitti> dpm: sure
<pitti> dpm: not really; language-selector does, but that needs accountsservice
<pitti> you can certainly install that, of course
<pitti> dpm: but I think for a demo, easiest thing is /e/d/locale, or ~/.pam_environment
<seb128> language-selector will not run on the phone
<seb128> easier to just hack the locale file manually imgo
<seb128> imho
<dpm> actually, once the locale file is changed, is there a way to restart the session on the phone, so that it picks up the new locale?
<seb128> ogra_, ^
<seb128> dpm, sudo reboot in adb or ssh? ;-)
<dpm> ok, cool
 * ogra_ looks up
<seb128> ogra_, just the 1 line before, do you know how to reboot/restart the session on the touch image?
<seb128> ogra_, is there a better way that "reboot" in adb/ssh?
<ogra_> i dont think so ...
<ogra_> you can try to kill ubuntu-session, it theoretically should respawn but i dont think that was ever tested
<ogra_> (there is an upstart job that respawns it but i'm not sure teh script itself  actually exits properly)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> ogra_, that was in case you knew a better trick ;-)
<ogra_> well, try it :)
 * ogra_ currently works on the flipped container model ... i dont have a gui running to try myself
<seb128> will do in a bit, thanks
<jbicha> seb128: did you see that bug 1177995 is still unfixed?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1177995 in Fontconfig "libfontconfig from Gnome3 staging PPA breaks CSS webfonts in firefox" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177995
<chrisccoulson> jbicha, is that actually in the archive?
<chrisccoulson> ah, it is
<chrisccoulson> i bet that explains all of these test failures then:
<chrisccoulson> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/saucy-adt-firefox/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/lastCompletedBuild/testReport/
<chrisccoulson> seb128 ;)
<chrisccoulson> they all look font related
<chrisccoulson> ooh, more font reftest failures: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/saucy-adt-firefox/ARCH=i386,label=adt/23/#showFailuresLink ;)
<chrisccoulson> it's a good job i run this!
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: by all means. I just don't have time to get back to it
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: I did write a small reproducer before... it's an issue in libdbusmenu somewhere
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, yeah, i've ran that for a couple of hours now, and it hasn't triggered it yet
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: it depends of the values for delay and stuff
<cyphermox> you got the script from a bzr branch?
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, yeah, the one on the bug
<cyphermox> ok
<seb128> jbicha, yeah, saw that, I will have a look in a bit
<seb128> chrisccoulson, would be even better if we had the result of those tests before landing a new version of the lib...
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah. i wonder how we could do that?
<chrisccoulson> i guess, the answer is to have that block the migration from proposed somehow
<Laney> that's the plan
<chrisccoulson> but i don't know how the test could distinguish between it being a regression in firefox, or a regression in the platform
<chrisccoulson> seeing as this is a new firefox version too ;)
<chrisccoulson> (the tests all pass in the raring build)
<seb128> well, you would assume that the version in the archive has successful tests
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, in this case, firefox is still sat in proposed too :)
<seb128> so we should be running the tests from the archive version with the new e.g glib
<Laney> you mean both would be in proposed at the same time?
<seb128> and flag red when they start failing
<Laney> so if you can't tell which regressed I suppose you have to block both until it's fixed
<chrisccoulson> yeah, testing the version of firefox in the release pocket with the libraries in proposed would probably be better in this case
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> you might end up testing something different to what you migrate then
<dpm> pitti, seb128, so oSoMoN and I (well actually he) have been playing with setting the locale in touch images, but it seems /etc/default/locale and setting LANG on the shell does not seem to work. Strangely enough, setting LANGUAGE on the shell works. On the other hand, running the app on the desktop does honor LANG. Any idea what could be missing on the localization stack on Touch images?
<oSoMoN> dpm: I know whatâs going on: LANG is correctly set to zh_CN.UTF-8, but thereâs also LANGUAGE thatâs set to en_US:en, and it apparently takes precedence over LANG
<dpm> aha!
<oSoMoN> dpm: if IÂ simply run "LANGUAGE= ubuntu-clock-app", IÂ get the localization correct
<oSoMoN> so we need to figure out what sets LANGUAGE, and override it
<seb128> oSoMoN, sudo grep LANGUAGE /etc -r
<oSoMoN> /etc/environment:LANGUAGE=en_US:en
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: poke
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5674309/
<cyphermox> reproduced with these changes
<dpm> oSoMoN, well spotted, I wonder what's setting it though
<cyphermox> let me know if it works for you... might take an hour or so to reach the 10k updates or what that are needed
<seb128> dpm, I told you earlier to check /etc/environment :p
<oSoMoN> dpm: setting LANG and LANGUAGE in /etc/default/locale fixes the issue partially: when launched from a terminal, the app now shows up in Chinese, however when started from the UI, it still shows up in plain English
<dpm> seb128, I did it... but on my desktop ;)
<seb128> oSoMoN, restart the shell, it's still with the LANGUAGE env
<seb128> I guess
<oSoMoN> seb128: IÂ rebooted already, no luck
<seb128> and the child inherit the env
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> oSoMoN, cat you "string /proc/$(pidof SHELLNAME) | grep LANG" ?
<seb128> ups
<seb128> oSoMoN, cat you "string /proc/$(pidof SHELLNAME)/environ | grep LANG" ?
<seb128> where SHELLNAME is the name if your launcher/shell process
<seb128> like that would be "compiz" on the normal ubuntu desktop
<oSoMoN> mmm, Iâll need to ssh into the device, /proc is not mounted properly when using adb, give me a moment
<oSoMoN> seb128: Iâm getting "string: command not found", but if IÂ cat the contents of /proc/$(pidof qml-phone-shell)/environ, I can see that LANGUAGE=en_US:en and LANG=en_US.UTF-8
<oSoMoN> which explains why apps start in English
<seb128> oSoMoN, sorry it's "strings" with a "s"
<seb128> oSoMoN, do you have LANGUAGE back in /etc/environment?
<oSoMoN> seb128: strings not found either, but nm
<seb128> yeah, don't worry about that ;-)
<oSoMoN> seb128: yes, in /etc/environment thereâs LANG=en_US.UTF-8 and LANGUAGE=en_US:en
<seb128> ogra_, ^ do you know what set /etc/environment LANGUAGE on boot of ubuntu touch?
<ogra_> seb128, live-build iirc
<seb128> ogra_, that doesn't happen in Ubuntu ... is that specific to touch? why is it doing that (that's buggy)
<ogra_> seb128, look at the livecd-rootfs source in the live-build/ubuntu-touch subdir
<seb128> thanks
<ogra_> seb128, because we have taken the setup from the oem build system unmodified
<ogra_> and because there is no installer which would usually set it
<seb128> oSoMoN, I guess you should override LANGUAGE in ~/.pam_environment
<seb128> oSoMoN, just create that file with LANGUAGE=<whatever you need>
<seb128> ogra_, is that run at every boot?
<seb128> hooks/48-setup-env.chroot:LANGUAGE=en_US:en
<ogra_> no, at build time
<seb128> hum
<seb128> weird
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> oem build system ...
<ogra_> :)
<seb128> oSoMoN apparently had it coming back after a reboot
<seb128> oSoMoN, did you edit /etc/environment to drop that line before?
<oSoMoN> seb128: no, IÂ simply overrode it in /etc/default/locale
<oSoMoN> seb128: let me try adding it to ~/.pam_environment
<seb128> oSoMoN, oh, just edit /etc/environment
<seb128> I though you did that before when you spotted the LANGUAGE in it
<oSoMoN> yay, parts of the shell and clock app in Chinese after reboot :)
<oSoMoN> fun, Iâm getting the time and the date localized in Chinese on the lock screen, thatâs what I call a customized home screen :)
<dpm> oSoMoN, cool. So I've been reading the scrollback, but I'm not sure what finally fixed it. What did you exactly have to do?
<seb128> dpm, drop LANGUAGE from /etc/environment
<oSoMoN> dpm: I modified the values of LANG and LANGUAGE in /etc/environment and in /etc/default/locale (not sure the latter is really necessary though)
<seb128> oSoMoN, you should just have dropped the lines in /etc/environment
<seb128> but both work
<dpm> oSoMoN, if it's not too much, could you try removing them both from /etc/environment and leave only the one in /etc/default/locale as Seb is mentioning, to see if that works as it's supposed to?
<oSoMoN> dpm: sure
<dpm> cool, thanks
<dpm> seb128, ogra_, what would the best place be to report a bug for /etc/environment not to set the language in the touch images and use only /etc/default/locale (if that's the way it's supposed to be)?
<seb128> dpm, <ogra_> seb128, look at the livecd-rootfs source in the live-build/ubuntu-touch subdir
<seb128> dpm, so livecd-rootfs ubuntu package
<seb128> dpm,  hooks/48-setup-env.chroot:LANGUAGE=en_US:en
<dpm> cool, thanks seb128!
<seb128> it has that
<seb128> we should probably just drop the line
<oSoMoN> dpm: I removed both LANG and LANGUAGE from /etc/environment, and kept only LANG in /etc/default/locale, rebooted, but the app is not localized anymore :/
<ogra_> as long as it doesnt break anything
<ogra_> thats what i was expecting :)
<ogra_> we dont use a proper installer and dont have any tool that mimics one yet
<seb128> oSoMoN, can you look to /proc/$(pidof qml-phone-shell)/environ again for the LANG LC_* values?
<seb128> ogra_, you just force everyone to english
<ogra_> no, i dont
<seb128> ogra_, if that was =fr:FR I could understand
<seb128> but english...
<ogra_> whoever implemented that did :)
<oSoMoN> seb128: no LANG nor LANGUAGE in there
<seb128> oSoMoN, LC_ALL or LC_MESSAGES?
<oSoMoN> nor LC_*
<ogra_> seb128, the prob i have with changing it is that we are not allowed to introduce any regressions by pmcgowan request ... so ripping it our means we need proper replacement first
<ogra_> s/our/out
<seb128> oSoMoN, ok, that would need debugging, I will have a look to it next week, add those back to /etc/environment I guess
<seb128> oSoMoN, thanks for the testing
<seb128> dpm, ^
<ogra_> (which i would see being oem-config, but we are apparently not using that so we have to wait for a replacement written from scratch)
<dpm> thanks seb128, oSoMoN and ogra_
<oSoMoN> np
<seb128> ogra_, that's ok, no hurry to "fix" it, the discussed started because oSoMoN et dpm are trying to run a chinese image for demo purpose
<dpm> indeed
<ogra_> ah
<seb128> ogra_, and that forced english config confused them
<ogra_> yeah, understood
<ogra_> not only them :)
<dpm> :)
<seb128> discussed->discussion
<ogra_> its messy all over the place
<ogra_> but fixing it means inventing new wheels :)
<didrocks> robru: I guess you'll see that the webapps is in manual publishing mode due to packaging changes (and QA stack being non working)
<didrocks> robru: so once you've done the review and tell it's ok, check with kenvandine I guess to publish it :)
<didrocks> cyphermox: same for oif, manual publishing
<didrocks> mind checking it?
<cyphermox> yeah
<didrocks> thanks
<cyphermox> didrocks: fun, all non-packaging changes
<didrocks> cyphermox: look at the publisher.xml
<didrocks> cyphermox: the qa stack failed
<didrocks> cyphermox: also logs in the console :)
<cyphermox> yeah, I know about that part
<cyphermox> I mean, oif itself is probably all good
<didrocks> cyphermox: yeah, if tests pass and "only" the QA stack failed, there is low chance to have bad test results :)
<didrocks> cyphermox: so I would go for publishing personnaly
<cyphermox> yeah that's what I meant
<cyphermox> I was just commenting that there were no packaging changes, it just didn't publish because the qa stack is still broken
<cyphermox> there's a distinct lack of extensive testing for oif though
<didrocks> cyphermox: yeah, I think it's good to publish anyway
<didrocks> cyphermox: at least, we know that unity is still starting :)
<cyphermox> yep
<didrocks> that's something!
<cyphermox> didrocks: oif publishing
<didrocks> thanks!
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, where can I find libhud2?
<seb128> kenvandine, I was trying to install your samegame game earlier but ran into libhud issue...
<kenvandine> seb128, where did you install it from?
<kenvandine> the collections PPA?
<seb128> kenvandine, yes, well I wget debs and tried to dpkg -i ... maybe I just overlooked on, but I didn't see libhud2 in there
<kenvandine> libhud2 is in the daily-build-next as well
<seb128> ah
<kenvandine> it had been copied to the collections ppa
<kenvandine> but i think libhud2 might be a new binary
<kenvandine> maybe we need to copy that again
<kenvandine> cyphermox, is that new?
<kenvandine> yes.. indeed it is new
<kenvandine> mhall119_, mind if i copy the new libhud to the collections ppa?
<Laney> have a good weekend everyone!
<seb128> Laney, thanks, you too!
<seb128> Laney, monday is an holiday in .fr, just for info
<seb128> not sure if that's on in u.k
<Laney> no, the week after for us
<seb128> ok
<Laney> it'll be an even better weekend for you then :p
<seb128> yep ;-)
<seb128> and apparently we will even get some sun on saturday and monday
<seb128> (not sunday though)
<Laney> not so much here http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2641170
<seb128> :-(
 * didrocks waves good evening
<didrocks> (and good week-end)
<didrocks> see you on *Tuesday* :-)
<cyphermox> kenvandine: indeed, libhud2 is new
<mhall119_> kenvandine: collections or coreapps/
<mhall119_> ?
<mhall119_> kenvandine: it almost seems more like something that should go into the SDK team PPA
<kenvandine> mhall119_, collection
<kenvandine> mhall119_, it is already in the touch images
<kenvandine> but people on desktops that want to install it
<kenvandine> is it in coreapps ppa?
<kenvandine> i know it's in collections
<mhall119_> why wouldn't the SDK Team PPA still be the right place?
<kenvandine> so we can expect everyone that wants to use the collections ppa on a desktop have the sdk ppa enabled?
<mhall119_> that's how they get the ubuntu-ui-toolkit packages, so yeah
<kenvandine> doesn't matter to me... i just know the old version was copied into the collections ppa
<kenvandine> not necessarily...
<kenvandine> they could get that from raring
<mhall119_> we're recommending raring users keep using the PPA, since it has newer versions of the SDK that we want them to use
<kenvandine> makes sense
<kenvandine> we should delete the old one then from the collections ppa
<mhall119_> agreed
<mhall119_> I need to get christian to move the u1db-qt package into the sdk team's ppa too
<sil2100> Dammit!
<cyphermox> ugh, unity ci is slooooow
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, figured it out ;)
<chrisccoulson> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dbusmenu-team/libdbusmenu/trunk.13.10/view/head:/libdbusmenu-glib/menuitem.c#L270
<chrisccoulson> it clamps the maximum id to 30000!
<chrisccoulson> so this fails when creating items in the panel with higher id's: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dbusmenu-team/libdbusmenu/trunk.13.10/view/head:/libdbusmenu-glib/client-menuitem.c#L96
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: I did notice nm-applet itself was usually failing at 30000
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: but with the script I'd get crashes before that
<cyphermox> well
<cyphermox> *around* 30000; I couldn't make sure it was really exactly that
<cyphermox> but this is indeed a very nice find :)
<bjsnider> so lucid and oneiric both reached eol on may 9 right?
<sarnold> bjsnider: no; lucid _desktop_ eol'd on may 9, but server and associated packages are still supported
<sarnold> "It's Complicated": https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/ReleaseManifest
<bjsnider> sarnold, right, but if i'm publishing ppa stuff for the desktop i can justifiably quit doing so for lucid and oneiric now
<sarnold> bjsnider: right. up to you if you care about lucid.. :)
<chrisccoulson> man, it's past beer o'clock and i'm still not finished
<sarnold> :(
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/libdbusmenu/lp1011073/+merge/164545
<cyphermox> yeah!
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: wouldn't it be better to have the ID a uint though?
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, it would. but it's exposed via a public API
<cyphermox> ah, right
<chrisccoulson> right, BEER TIME!
<bkerensa> jasoncwarner: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Apps/WebRT
<sil2100> cyphermox: ping, are you still there?
<sil2100> Ok, screw it, I finish this up tomorrow, too late today anyway for anything...
<sil2100> See you later guys
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-19
<sil2100> cyphermox: ping
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-05-12
<robert_ancell> RAOF, for bug 1220826 does anything else need to be done for this SRU to complete?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: It looks like it'll be released the next time someone goes over the pending-srus page; it's now aged enough.
<robert_ancell> ok, cool. thanks
<pitti> Good morning
<Laney> hallo!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> Laney, hey, how are you? had a good w.e?
<didrocks> hey Laney, seb128!
<seb128> hey didrocks
<Laney> hey seb128 didrocks
<Laney> was good thank you despite the constant rain: pub / eurovision / climbing
<Laney> you french guys were robbed
<didrocks> Laney: eurovision is never a big thing in France fyi
<seb128> oh, I had a glance at eurovision, France had 0 after like 15 countries voted
<seb128> that's ridiculous
<Laney> indeed!
<seb128> did we end up last?
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> :-(
<didrocks> ahah :)
<seb128> not with 0 at least?
<Laney> 2 i think ...
<Laney> they did well on the alternative voting we had in the pub :P
<seb128> haha
<didrocks> Laney: the show isn't on air in one of the most popular TV channel and it never got a lot of audience. That's also probably because we never win!
<Laney> haha
<Laney> that's strange because france are one of the big nations that automatically get into the final
<didrocks> 13.6% of tv viewers, so 2.5 millions
<didrocks> (just googled for it)
<didrocks> I guess that can be fun in a pub though :)
<Laney> yeah i can't imagine watching it at home :P
<Laney> anyway, did you guys have a good weekend?
<didrocks> yeah, excellent, thanks! how about you apart from eurovision-pub*ish* time? :)
<darkxst> hey Laney seb128 didrocks!
<didrocks> hey darkxst!
<sil2100> Morning ;)
<seb128> hey sil2100 darkxst
<didrocks> Laney: we couldn't get to visit the opera (too many people outside queuing), so we went back home and video games :)
<didrocks> (finished ni no kuni, tried to finish the extras, but I guess I'll have to level too much)
<didrocks> hey sil2100
<mlankhorst> so did anyone test  qtbase-opensource-src  5.2.1+dfsg-1ubuntu15~ppa7 yet for the touch bug?
<didrocks> I guess it's a question for Mirv ^
<seb128> mlankhorst, I did test some version on thursday or wednesday, not sure if that was this one ... did you get other revisions during the week?
<seb128> jibel tested it and still had the issue iirc
<mlankhorst> yeah, final one was uploaded thursday, it's the one I hope to sru it
<seb128> k
<mlankhorst> it shouldn't cause any issues for jibel any more..
<mlankhorst> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/174944343/qtbase-opensource-src_5.2.1%2Bdfsg-1ubuntu15~ppa6_5.2.1%2Bdfsg-1ubuntu15~ppa7.diff.gz
<mlankhorst> turns out that the bug was a variation of the stuck mouse button bug
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I'm going to test the update today and let you know how it goes
<Mirv> mlankhorst: that versioning doesn't sound like any of my builds
<Mirv> or didrocks ^ but I guess you know what it's about
<mlankhorst> Mirv: well I uploaded it to ppa:canonical-x/x-staging :P
<didrocks> ok, didn't know about that one anyway
<mlankhorst> I lack the hardware so I had to keep doing uploads to that ppa for others to test :-)
<Mirv> mlankhorst: I've a trusty SRU brewing too https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/landing-004/+packages
<mlankhorst> ah k, can you add something for me then? :P
<mlankhorst> grab the 'xi2-use-master-device.patch' from that ppa package
<mlankhorst> http://people.canonical.com/~mlankhorst/xi2-use-master-device.patch
<Mirv> mlankhorst: sure. is it ready for upload already, or are you planning to test it still? I'm just trying to avoid too many additional landing PPA builds of it.
<mlankhorst> I believe it's ready but since I lack a touch capable laptop it requires others to test :-)
<Mirv> mlankhorst: ok, I'll launch a ubuntu14.2 build but wait for ack from test results
<mlankhorst> seb128: ? ^ jibel ^
<seb128> Mirv, let me know when you have a build to test, I can do that
<mlankhorst> testing the one from x-staging would be just as good
<seb128> let me do that
<Mirv> mlankhorst: is that ok changelog? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7451331/
<mlankhorst> yeah
<ochosi> hi everyone
<seb128> ochosi, hey, how are you?
<ochosi> seb128: doing great (especially considering it's a *monday* ), how're you? :)
<seb128> I'm good thanks ;-)
<ochosi> i was wondering, since you guys removed gnome-screensaver, how do you handle the screenblanks/DPMS settings now? does the lockscreen also handle those timeouts etc or is it unity-settings-daemon?
<ochosi> (or: what actually blanks the screen? X11's screensaver extension?)
<ochosi> (referring to 14.04, so unity7, obviously)
<Laney> "Committed revision 666."
<jibel> mlankhorst,  qt 5.2.1+dfsg-1ubuntu15~ppa7 from x-staging PPA is the version to test?
<seb128> ochosi, unity7 does it afaik, to check with Trevinho though
<seb128> mlankhorst, the ppa7 version seems to work fine for me (I can dnd the windows from touch apps, no segfault so far)
<seb128> jibel, yes
<jibel> mlankhorst, seb128 thanks, it seems to be working fine. I launched several Qt and Gtk apps, I can switch between them with the touch screen and no crash so far. I'll do more tests.
<seb128> jibel, thanks
<seb128> well even if there is still a crash, it seems like still an improvement
<seb128> so worth SRUing even if it's not the perfect fix
<jibel> clearly an improvement, there is no obvious way to make it crash.
<seb128> Mirv, ^
<seb128> jibel, thanks for testing
<Mirv> thanks
<Mirv> it's building at https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/landing-004/+packages now
<Sweetsha1k> moin
<seb128> Sweetsha1k, hey, how are you?
<Mirv> I guess I need another landing for the utopic one
<Sweetsha1k> seb128: fine, armhf just finished to build, now dragging out a precise VM to test it.
<Mirv> or maybe simply an upload instead
<mlankhorst> jibel: goodie :-)
<ochosi> seb128: k, thanks, will ask Trevinho then
<ochosi> Trevinho: hey! i was wondering, since you guys removed gnome-screensaver, how do you handle the screenblanks/DPMS settings now? does the lockscreen also handle those timeouts etc or is it unity-settings-daemon (or unity itself)?
<Mirv> mlankhorst: so if you're happy with this debdiff in utopic, I'll do that first before the SRU of course: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7451494/
<mlankhorst> looks good
 * Sweetsha1k will reach 200 full libreoffice builds again this week. The local energy provider is thankful.
<seb128> pitti, hey, do you plan to SRU https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/1282349 ?
<seb128> it's ranked 5 on the current e.u.c trusty issues
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> Sweetshark, not sure if you saw my ping about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1219245 the other day, assigned the bug to you now (it's ranked high on e.u.c)
<pitti> seb128: yeah, can do
<seb128> pitti, salut, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: Ã§a va bien, mieux que la semaine derniÃ©re -- c'Ã©tait trop longue :)
<seb128> tu travailles trop !
<pitti> nah, it wouldn't have let my brain rest anyway, so I'm rather glad that it's by and large working well again :)
<Sweetshark> seb128: k. that one will be "fun" again (as is ~everything in the bowels of vcl) ...
<seb128> pitti, ;-)
<seb128> Sweetshark, maybe you can start by upstreaming it and see if that's a known issue?
<seb128> Sweetshark, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1043576 ... at least it's not only us
<Sweetshark> seb128: I cant see a good reproduction scenario on that one, which is the half of the work here ...
<Sweetshark> seb128: though at least two of the dupes say it was "crash on close", which doesnt help much, but somewhat lowers the priority on that one ..
<seb128> right
<seb128> well, one states "while installing a font"
<seb128> but if you are confident it's an issue on close, feel free to lower the bug settings and unassign
<Sweetshark> yep, saw that one too. I might try to force libreoffice to crash by installing and removing fonts, to get a reproduction scenario, but I guess there are more productive uses of my time right now.
<seb128> k
<seb128> well, I pointed it because it's in the top 10 trusty issues on e.u.c
<seb128> so worth at least having a look to flag it important or not
<Sweetshark> although, the one "crashed while updating" report might also be a proxy for "while installing font". OTOH that might mean its just people running libreoffice while doing a release update and thus explain why it is ranking this high _currently_ ;)
<seb128> Laney, thanks for doing those u-s-s reviews ;-)
<Laney> np
<Laney> I'm filing a bug for some remaining update issues I just saw
<seb128> Laney, I've planned to do a landing in the next days, but feel free to organize one if you want
<seb128> k
<Laney> I'd want that blank page one proposed first
<seb128> check the open bugs first, we have quite some already filed against it
<Laney> dunno why gatox didn't
<seb128> he started working on it, maybe it's not fully done?
<Laney> I think it is, but I asked on the bug so let's see
<seb128> k
<seb128> I think he should be up soon
<Laney> nod
 * didrocks goes for a run
<didrocks> and will try to avoid any rain in the mix
 * Laney stabs firefox
<Laney> y u crash
<larsu> Laney: because you stabbed it?
<Laney> that was just me violating the geneva convention
<Laney> https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/index/d108ce03-1ed0-4a05-b66f-2652b2140512
<Sweetshark> seb128: upstreamed as https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=78598
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<seb128> Sweetshark, you should maybe attach the stacktrace to the upstream bug?
<darkxst> didrocks, seb128, anyidea what is the point of gnome-update-wallpaper-cache in g-s-d?
<Sweetshark> seb128: done
<Sweetshark> seb128: fwiw, I dont see that bug as top 5 for trusty on e.u.c -- but then again e.u.c seems to do wild statistic voodoo with its data (and show something different to everyone) ...
<darkxst> i.e. why install a binary in /usr/lib that is not used by anything? and at it its best could only have been working around bugs in gnome-desktop?
<rickspencer3> good morning desktoppers
<rickspencer3> good morning seb128
<seb128> rickspencer3, good morning
<seb128> Sweetshark, https://errors.ubuntu.com/?release=Ubuntu%2014.04&period=day has it ranked 13
<seb128> darkxst, gnome-update-wallpaper-cache write a cache that is read by gnome-desktop iirc
<darkxst> seb128, maybe it used too? I can't find anything that calls it
<seb128> darkxst, what do you mean "maybe it used too"?
<seb128> too->to?
<Trevinho> ochosi: it's unity-settings-daemon
<darkxst> yeh "to"
<seb128> darkxst, well, .cache/wallpaper has updated content here, so it's still used
<seb128> let me try to remember the details of how that works
<Trevinho> ochosi: basically u-s-s sends us the "idle" signal, then at that point we start the fading to blank... Once we've done the fading we set the Active state to true (see gnome screensaver dbus API) and we emit the relevant signal. This is monitored by uss that then actually turns the screen off
<Sweetshark> seb128: indeed. Looking at that, the frequency there says "71", which is the same as it is for all distros -- so _all_ crashes happen on 14.04, while the issue has been around since 4.0.2-0ubuntu1. So I would say, this is artificially increased by people keeping LibreOffice running during a dist upgrade.
<seb128> Sweetshark, that seems possible indeed
<seb128> darkxst, it's still used at least in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/scripts/plugininstall.py#L1595 (we need to update that for u-s-d it seems)
<seb128> darkxst, so yeah, it's used there, I think the other usecases are handled by gnome-desktop directly
<darkxst> seb128, I see, although I wonder what help a cache is going to provide in ubiquity when it can't exactly know what resolution will be coming!
<seb128> darkxst, in most cases the resolution is the same during install than later
<seb128> is "put a different screen for the installation" an usecase?
<darkxst> oh, so it copies the wallpaper from the installer onto the installed system?
<Laney> hey rickspencer3, Ã§a va?
<Laney> (I already regret asking that in French)
<seb128> right
<rickspencer3> hi Laney
<darkxst> but even then, why need a binary to forces a redraw of the background to make the cache, which should be there already since the installer has drawn the background!
<seb128> not in "install mode"
<rickspencer3> Laney, I shall resist from my normal brutal massacre of the beautiful French language
<seb128> that's not using gnome-desktop iirc
 * rickspencer3 sips coffee
<Laney> my pre-loaded google translate weeps
<seb128> darkxst, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/530024
<rickspencer3> Laney, I did not know that Google Translate was so sensitive
<rickspencer3> pauvre google translate
<darkxst> seb128, what exactly is "install mode"?
<seb128> darkxst, the mode which runs ubiquity only and not a live session
<seb128> when you boot the iso it's "install"
<seb128> where the live session is "test Ubuntu"
<darkxst> seb128, like the "try ubuntu" screen?
<darkxst> and instead click install?
<seb128> yes
<darkxst> pretty sure g-s-d runs there these days
<seb128> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/Ubiquity_installer.png/300px-Ubiquity_installer.png
<darkxst> otherwise our gnome-shell ubiquity session would be horribly broken!
<seb128> it does maybe for you
<seb128> does it do it for other flavors?
<darkxst> no other flavours are using g-s-d now
<seb128> if you say so
<seb128> I'm not the right person to ask about that
<darkxst> seb128, just checked ubuntu image, u-s-d is running
<darkxst> and for ubuntu gnome images, g-s-d is running
<darkxst> this seems like legacy cruft to me
<seb128> could be
<seb128> if you want to fix it please start by updating ubiquity to drop the code you think is obsolete
<seb128> and confirm that on a new install the cache is correctly copied to the target system
<seb128> once we get the ubiquity change merged/tested we can look at dropping the g-s-d hack
<Laney> I think g-s-d started to be launched sometime during raring
<Laney> so it probably became obsolete then
<darkxst> seb128, I have wallpaper cache at the "try ubuntu" screen
<seb128> I believe you
<didrocks> it wasn't running for sure in the 10.04 timeframe
<didrocks> (back from exercise)
<seb128> so let's drop that code snippet
<didrocks> that's why there was this binary, to generate the cache
<didrocks> if g-s-d/u-s-d runs now, it's great then :)
<seb128> didrocks, wb, yeah I pointed to the bug you opened by then
<didrocks> just ensure that the .cache/ directory is copied
<seb128> right
<didrocks> (I don't remember if it's the same binary or a hook)
<seb128> it's the same hook
<seb128> it just needs to be updated to stop calling the binary
<seb128> but copy the .cache content instead
<didrocks> yeah
<darkxst> well the binary doesnt copy the cache, so it just needs to stop calling the binary
<seb128> right
<didrocks> ah, actually, it's already not called
<didrocks> (rereading my ubiquity code)
<didrocks> as g-s-d/u-s-d created it, I had the check
<Laney> seb128: did you start to work on the seeds yet?
<seb128> Laney, sort of, I copied/hacked the touch one a bit on friday but I was unsure how to test it so I didn't go far
<seb128> Laney, btw what happened to your libcd-rootfs upload?
<seb128> livecd*
<Laney> did something happen to it?
<Laney> looks there to me
<Laney> oh it got overwritten
<Laney> grr
<Laney> okay I re-merged it
<Laney> seb128: can you push your branch somewhere? I'll make a package out of it and make the iso use that
 * Laney goes to lunch
<seb128> Laney, ok, enjoy lunch!
<seb128> Laney, "overwritten", I didn't see an upload from you, maybe upload collision or something?
<seb128> (well, on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/livecd-rootfs/+changelog)
<Mirv> mlankhorst: utopic upload done, but there's a arm64 toolchain issues apparently (gcc internal error) that will prevent for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+source/qtbase-opensource-src/5.2.1+dfsg-1ubuntu16 to move to -release pocket
<mlankhorst> ok :/
<Laney> seb128: it's in the ppa only
<seb128> Laney, oh, ok
<mlankhorst> who's working on 12.04.5 this time?
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseTaskSignup has nobody
<attente> seb128, hey
<attente> can we sru https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/gnome-settings-daemon/1218322/+merge/219055
<seb128> attente, hey
<seb128> sure
<attente> it's not ideal, but better than the current state
 * mlankhorst pokes seb128 for tests :P
<seb128> mlankhorst, what tests?
<seb128> attente, can you open a new bug about the specific issue/for the SRU.
<seb128> ?
<seb128> attente, that bug became a dump ground for keyboard issues, it's not good to use for SRU tracking
 * didrocks goes to the police station for the european vote during the malta sprint. should take ~30 minutes
<seb128> didrocks, good luck
<mlankhorst> seb128: qtbase + touch screen testing :)
<attente> seb128, sure
<didrocks> seb128: my target this time is to have it opened! not having to go 3 times to 3 different police stations like 2 years ago :)
<seb128> mlankhorst, I did that this morning and pinged you back on this channel
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, let's see
<seb128> attente, thanks
<seb128>  mlankhorst, the ppa7 version seems to work fine for me (I can dnd the windows from touch apps, no segfault so far)
<seb128> mlankhorst, jibel confirmed as well
<mlankhorst> ah right
<mlankhorst> sorry was busy with preparing for lts-trusty sru
<seb128> no worry
<GunnarHj> Hi seb128!
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey
<GunnarHj> seb128: Do you have time for a question about the skype-translation package I'm proposing?
<seb128> I'm busy, but it's IRC, if you ask your question I'm eventually going to get to it
<seb128> others might reply as well
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok. The issue is explained at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1314402/comments/2
<ochosi> Trevinho: in your case "we" == unity?
<attente> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/1318673
<seb128> attente, thanks
<seb128> GunnarHj, the symlink idea is not great, that's going to create extra confusion
<seb128> we just need to keep up with skype changes and update when there are conflicts
<GunnarHj> seb128: The problem is that we don't have access to debian/control in the package provided on the Skype site, so we won't be able to handle it via conflict fields.
<Sweetshark> 182 full builds of libreoffice finished. Room is comfortably warn now.
<GunnarHj> seb128: So you think the problem I described is something we can live with then?
<seb128> GunnarHj, well, I don't see a nice way around it
<seb128> your symlink hack seems like buggy and a recipe for issues/bugs
<seb128> it's quite hackish
<seb128> the other alternative is to make new skype release conflicts with our translations package
<seb128> which makes me thing the right way is to convince upstream to ship the translations
<seb128> rather than adding a package on our side
<GunnarHj> seb128: Well, the end goal is of course to make "upstream" (M$) ship more translations. The purpose with this package idea is to provide an alternative in the meantime.
<GunnarHj> seb128: How is the scripts hackish? Any thoughts on how they could be improved?
<Laney> It can't work unless you add a dependency on skype, which you aren't really allowed to do as it only lives in an external repository
<GunnarHj> Laney: Hi! There is already a skype dependency. Please note that there are other skype related help packages in the archive already.
<seb128> GunnarHj, the "let's create symlinks at installation time so they can be overwritten by skype" is hackish
<Trevinho> ochosi: yes
<ochosi> Trevinho: would you mind pointing me at the code?
<Trevinho> ochosi: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/view/head:/lockscreen/LockScreenController.cpp#L135
<ochosi> Trevinho: ty!
<Trevinho> ochosi: and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/view/head:/lockscreen/ScreenSaverDBusManager.cpp
<GunnarHj> * had to reboot *
<mlankhorst> seb128: hm if you hit the touchscreen like a monkey (without qt updated to ubuntu16 open) does your pointer emulation get stuck sooner or later with scary messages in the xorg log?
<mlankhorst> i mean without necessarily any applications open except the dash
<seb128> I've seen issues like that iirc
<seb128> I can't test now though, I've a ton of stuff to finish before eod
<jibel> mlankhorst, with the version from the PPA I get this http://paste.ubuntu.com/7452953/
<jibel> interesting messages start at 25190
<mlankhorst> jibel: yeah hitting the same when using my touchpad as poor man's touchscreen
<mlankhorst> no idea what is going on yet there, though. probably a separate bug :/
<mlankhorst> jibel: but touch still responds right?
<jibel> mlankhorst, yes, it does.
<mlankhorst> good, it's probably harmful in some way because touch gets emulated when it shouldn't, but aprt from that..
<mlankhorst> I'll take a look tomorrow
<mlankhorst> eod!
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, is there a known issue with DNS being broken on utopic? Mine only works if I directly edit resolv.conf
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: not that I know
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, are you running utopic?
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> try to check what syslog says, after you kill -USR1 dnsmasq
<cyphermox> it should list the same nameservers as you'd be adding in /etc/resolv.conf directly
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, I have three instances of dnsmasq running - which one?
<cyphermox> the one started by NetworkManager, it should list it in the command line
<cyphermox> that said, if you have three instances that might be a hint to what's wrong ;)
<cyphermox> what IP gets in your /etc/resolv.conf normally, when it's broken? 127.0.0.1 or 127.0.1.1 or something else?
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7454389/
<robert_ancell> 127.0.0.1
<cyphermox> ah, yeah
<cyphermox> so the NetworkManager instance is started properly, and probably has the right nameserver, as far as I can tell
<cyphermox> however, you have an instance on 127.0.0.1 that starts and clobbers /etc/resolv.conf
<cyphermox> I bet if you put 127.0.1.1 in resolv conf instead it would resolve properly
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7454394/ are the three instances
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, neither 127.0.0.1 or 127.0.1.1 works
<cyphermox> ah
<cyphermox> what does dig report for each?
<cyphermox> say if you do dig www.google.com @127.0.1.1
<robert_ancell> just blocking
<cyphermox> I don't know what the first instance is, it would be worth figuring out
<cyphermox> is there anything in /etc/dnsmasq.conf?
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, default file with everything quoted out
<robert_ancell> Perhaps systemd has started it? /lib/systemd/system/dnsmasq.service
<cyphermox> you're running systemd?
<robert_ancell> no, just wondering if the utopic upgrade had pulled it in
<robert_ancell> confirmed I'm not
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> well if dnsmasq.conf is the default config file with everything commented and you don't know why it's there, I'd kill the service and remove the file
<cyphermox> it's started with a bunch of options that aren't default though
<cyphermox> like --local-service
<cyphermox> scratch that, I'm mistaken
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, I killed the dnsmasq and libvirt instances and still doesn't work
<cyphermox> the NM isntance too?
<robert_ancell> no
<cyphermox> the thing is, when you kill them it doesn't go update /etc/resolv.conf again, so you also need to fix it
<cyphermox> I'd need to reboot now, but I think i've set up my system the same way
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, but using dig with '@' should work right?
<cyphermox> yes, you're specifying which server to ask
<cyphermox> here is works
<cyphermox> I have all three (mostly) same instances
<cyphermox> all three seem to get properly configured; the NM instance has the real dns servers, and the others point to it
<cyphermox> ie. libvirt points to the system dnsmasq, which points to the NM instance which has the true DNS data
<cyphermox> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7454515/
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: I suggest you uninstall dnsmasq (but not dnsmasq-base)
<cyphermox> the binaries will still be there for NM and libvirt, but at least you'll have one less thing to worry about; then reboot and we can see if it's still broken
<robert_ancell> cyphermox,
<robert_ancell> ok
<ochosi> robert_ancell: hey! i read about a feature in lightdm (in the changelog) that the greeter can be kept alive so vt switching works more swiftly. is there anything the greeter (or the session?) has to do about this or does it work automagically somehow?
<robert_ancell> ochosi, the greeter sets a flag before the lightdm_greeter_connect
<robert_ancell> and it has to handle two signals (one to go idle and one to reset)
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> is there already a greeter that does that?
<robert_ancell> ochosi, I believe mterry has the Unity 8 greeter working with that. Not sure if it's in trunk yet
<robert_ancell> other than that, no
<ochosi> would you say it makes sense for the way xubuntu uses the greeter? (as lockscreen and login)
<ochosi> i mean it sounds like it potentially improves the performance
<ochosi> but as there isn't an implementation i can test... :)
<robert_ancell> ochosi, it's a trade off between memory usage and greeter start up time
<robert_ancell> ochosi, since on X you would need to keep the greeter X server around it's probably not worth it
<robert_ancell> ochosi, though you could make a config option for the greeter to enable it
<robert_ancell> ochosi, on the phone the memory cost is lower and the switching time is more critical (due to phones commonly going to the greeter)
<ochosi> mhm, i understand
<ochosi> sounds like a lot of work and not many users will actually use it...
<ochosi> (in xubuntu i mean)
<robert_ancell> yeah, that's my guess
<ochosi> righty, thanks for the heads up, robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> no worries
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, now I have no dnsmasq and still not DNS without editing /etc/resolv.conf
<cyphermox> no dnsmasq at all?
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, not according to ps
<cyphermox> ugh
<cyphermox> doesn't NM start?
<robert_ancell> NM is running
<cyphermox> is dns=dnsmasq commented out in /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf?
<cyphermox> you just rebooted, right?
<robert_ancell> yes
<robert_ancell> it's still in the .conf
<cyphermox> how the hell can it not get started
<cyphermox> plus if it's not starting, NM should still go write to /etc/resolv.conf directly
<cyphermox> could you paste /var/log/syslog?
<robert_ancell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7454591/
<robert_ancell> oh, sorry. I typoed my ps
<robert_ancell> I do have two dnsmasqs
<robert_ancell> i.e. the "dnsmasq" user one is gone, but the NM and libvirt ones are there
<robert_ancell> dig www.google.com @127.0.1.1 still blocks forever
<cyphermox> I was about to say
<cyphermox> hum, just a second
<cyphermox> does dig www.google.com @192.168.0.1 ever return?
<robert_ancell> yes, immediately
<robert_ancell> and my other devices are connected to the wifi and working fine
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> ok, so let's try this one more time:
<cyphermox> kill -USR1 2316
<cyphermox> (and the output that goes in /var/log/syslog
<robert_ancell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7454613/
<cyphermox> do you only have libvirt-bin, README, and network-manager files in /etc/dnsmasq.d ?
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, just libvirt-bin and network-manager
<robert_ancell> i.e. no README
<cyphermox> yeah, that's fine
<cyphermox> so why does your NM dnsmasq instance never receive requests, or pass any?
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, is DNS plain text, can I telnet to it and check anything?
<cyphermox> well it's kind of plain text yeah
<cyphermox> but it would probably be easier to tcpdump and see if packets pass
<cyphermox> if you telnet to 127.0.1.1 53 you should at least get an open port
<robert_ancell> yeah, I get that but nothing back, even if I send junk
<ali1234> um... isn't DNS UDP?
<robert_ancell> both according to /etc/services
<cyphermox> ali1234: both
<sarnold> robert_ancell: /etc/services has udp and tcp for almost every service as a historical artifact...
<cyphermox> sarnold: dns is both anyway :)
<sarnold> DNS quite often kicks back 'request again over TCP' responses to queries that will generate a lot of traffic, to reduce udp fragmentation and to reduce UDP-based DNS DDOS attacks
<sarnold> cyphermox: yeah, just wanted to make sure the accidental truth of this one wasn't confusing in the future :)
<cyphermox> sarnold: good plan ;)
<robert_ancell> TIL
<sarnold> ... I can't think of any other service that actually uses both tcp and udp on well-known ports..
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: does telnet get you somewhere you can type?
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, yes, but no replies
<cyphermox> for 127.0.1.1 correct?
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, yes
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: so I have no idea why it's not working
<cyphermox> you could try to add "log-queries" in a file /etc/NetworkManager/dnsmasq.d/debug
<cyphermox> then try to send more queries to it with dig, kill the daemon again with -USR1 and see if it says anything more helpful than we've had so far
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, just a file with "log-queries" in it?
<cyphermox> yep
<TheMuso`> I think I had the same problem when upgrading to utopic yesterday, worked around it for now. If more help and log data is helpful, I can bring up an IRC session on another box so I can re-enable network-manager to help test.
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, I'll have to restart NM right?
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: yes
<robert_ancell> ok, be back in a second
<cyphermox> what could have changed to cause this?
<TheMuso> I should note that my upgrade was actually a fresh install of utopic.
<cyphermox> TheMuso: I also am running on a freshly installed system
<cyphermox> from... two weeks ago maybe?
<cyphermox> it's fully up to date
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, what's the nm service name?
<TheMuso> Interesting. I fetched the latest daily at the time yesterday, backed up, did a fresh install, and noticed the problem when adjusting my sources.list.
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: network-manager
<cyphermox> TheMuso: you mean an update?
<cyphermox> hm
<robert_ancell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7454711/
<TheMuso> cyphermox: Media was tagged as "Ubuntu 14.10 "Utopic Unicorn" - Alpha amd64 (20140510)". I hadn't installed any extra updates. Did a fresh install from that daily, and then when attempting to fetch updated package sources, I couldn't resolve DNS when attempting to connect via network-manager.
<cyphermox> that's one good hint
<cyphermox> I see dnsmasq got changed recently
<cyphermox> I have another system that isn't as up to date, I'm going to try bringing it to the same version, we'll see how that goes
<TheMuso> Yeah, once I worked around nm and got networking working, I did fetch an updated dnsmasq, but that made no difference.
<cyphermox> depends which version it was
<cyphermox> 2.68 I know works, that's what we have in trusty
<TheMuso> Let me check what version was on the daily.
<TheMuso> the daily that I used that is.
<cyphermox> 2.70-1 and 2.70-2 we got recently from debian, 2.70-1 on April 26 and 2.70-2 yesterday it seems
<TheMuso> dnsmasq-base2.70-1
<cyphermox> it's weird though, this system is running 2.70-2 without any problems
<TheMuso> Yeah sounds about right.
<cyphermox> wired though
<TheMuso> Mine is wired too.
<TheMuso> My notebok is always docked when I am working at my desk, and my dock station is perminantly connected to ethernet.
<cyphermox> so I should easily be able to see this
<TheMuso> You'd think so...
<cyphermox> nopr
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: do you have logs on your router?
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, it has pretty crap logs
<cyphermox> I recall at some point a while ago there was an issue with some routers for what dnsmasq was sending them
<cyphermox> many don't really lsit queries though, but maybe it complained a bit about what was received
<robert_ancell> nothing exciting, just DHCP logs
<cyphermox> boo
<TheMuso> Ok that is weird. Its working fine now. Mind you, I just manually took down the interface and reloaded network-manager.
<TheMuso> Perhaps it may return after a fresh reboot...
<TheMuso> brb
<TheMuso> Ok, all seems fine here. That was weird.
<TheMuso> Seems I can't be any help after all. :)
<cyphermox> you've already been helpful, too late ;)
<TheMuso> lol
<cyphermox> oh
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: is dnsmasq running with 100% cpu by any chance?
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, no
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: I'll get you an updated dnsmasq package to try, in case this is what's happening
<cyphermox> http://thekelleys.org.uk/gitweb/?p=dnsmasq.git;a=blobdiff;f=src/blockdata.c;h=5a70a7967fa3c44cdf23b5cbb849e008fd44201a;hp=272d3a67f4ebd0b293b4f26aafaf312f3772f6c9;hb=b692f23466eb28ceed42c4e1d312707636afff09;hpb=8aa999ef69f3978faa4788e390edb4ed44dfc11e
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, ok
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: https://launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/+archive/build-tests/+packages
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, thanks
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, that fixed it
<cyphermox> interesting
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-05-13
<cyphermox> well, say thanks to James Hunt for finding and fixing the problem ;)
<darkxst> Laney, hey, can you give codesearch a bump!
<Laney> it's already in progress
<Laney> also morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<seb128> what is in progress?
<darkxst> evening ;)
<didrocks> 08:17:33    darkxst | Laney, hey, can you give codesearch a bump!
<didrocks> seb128: ^
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> yw!
<Laney> hey seb128, I'm alright thanks
<Laney> it's finally not raining
<Laney> how are you?
<darkxst> Laney, same here have had 3 days in row without rain ;)
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<Laney> *days*!
<seb128> no rain here either, but it's still grey
<andyrock> bregma, seb128 i think there was a mistake in the last unity release
<andyrock> https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/unity/lp-1281058/+merge/215331 should not be there
<seb128> andyrock, hey, why not? was it not ready?
<andyrock> yeah but what about the translations?
<seb128> andyrock, well, that landed to utopic, not trusty
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/7.2.0+14.10.20140512.4-0ubuntu1
<andyrock> ah yeah
<andyrock> sorry :D
<andyrock> just wake up ^_^
<seb128> I guess you need to target lp:unity/7.2 if you want a SRU
<seb128> no worry ;-)
<seb128> Sweetsha1k, hey, did you see that somebody pointed to a commit for that libreoffice segfault bug you upstreamed yesterday? is that commit in our current version?
<Laney> http://ubuntuone.com/5OeS9F9yz8DogeokQRYCWY
<seb128> Laney, is that an unity8 iso? ;-)
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> launching things doesn't work ...
<Laney> oh some things do
<Laney> kind of
<seb128> do you have unity8-desktop-session-mir installed?
<Laney> using x11
<seb128> oh, k
<Laney> i should try mir
<seb128> Laney, sorry, I didn't push the seed changes yesterday, Rick pinged me for slidedeck work and I noticed that I lost my seed when I whipped out my "isobuild" directory on friday (when your script was failing for me)
<Laney> it's okay
<Laney> I made a quick one by copying touch
<seb128> Laney, but I basically copied the touch one, added unity8-desktop-session-mir instead of the custom session, and dropped everything that looked like android related
<seb128> cool
<Laney> lp:~laney/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-unity8.utopic I think
<Sweetsha1k> seb128: I saw that, didnt check yet on which branches it is.
<Laney> did mir work in a vm?
<seb128> Sweetsha1k, ok, let me know how it works
<seb128> Laney, I didn't try, might be a good question for #ubuntu-mir, my gut feeling is that it's not going to work...
<ogra_> you could cheat and use the x86 touch emulator ;)
<Laney> Failed to create GBM device
<Laney> yeah I think this is a dead end
<ogra_> (since thats just a qemu VM after all)
<Laney> doesn't that do android and stuff?
<ogra_> it uses the andorid drivers inside the image and a special translation layer that makes qemu use desktop GL
<Sweetsha1k> seb128: just checked, seems to be on master only (aka for release with LibreOffice 4.3.x), so yeah, would need backporting upstream or as vendor patch.
<seb128> Sweetsha1k, great, at least it's not "we already have the patch, so it's not resolving the issue"
<Sweetsha1k> seb128: yes
<seb128> Laney, I think not working in a VM is alright
<seb128> well "alright", that's not a blocker
<seb128> even if having VMs working would be nice
 * Sweetshark reboots for release update ...
<Laney> I think I need to get a USB key
<Laney> amazingly I don't think I have any
<seb128> how do you usually install Ubuntu on new machines?
<Laney> haven't done that in a while
<Laney> probably had one back then
<seb128> k, makes sense
<seb128> I don't use mines a lot, but I've a stack of those
<seb128> like I get a few at conferences, though they are old one slow/1G style
<Laney> needs changes to /etc/upstart-xsessions & unity8.conf to work at all though, /me uploads those
<Laney> bregma: did you get anywhere with the unity8-x11 session?
<Laney> It doesn't work very well for me
<seb128> Laney, bregma: do we care about unity8 on xorg?
<seb128> it doesn't look like something we want to spend time on
<seb128> we better start on Mir
<Laney> I'm just wondering
<seb128> imho we should just drop it
<seb128> we are not going to have stuff like clicks working on xorg
<seb128> due to the security model
<seb128> so let's just focus on Mir
<seb128> Laney, your seed looks mostly fine to me
<seb128> Laney,  we should probably add those "camera-app, friends-app, gallery-app, mediaplayer-app, notes-app, webbrowser-app"
<seb128> those are the apps unity8-desktop-session-mir suggests, they are all debs in the archvie
<seb128> (touch install them as clicks)
<Laney> are the debs maintained?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> they go through CI train
<seb128> well, that's temporary until we get click support on the desktop I guess
<seb128> pitti, hey
<seb128> pitti, could you have a look to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=728205#c4 , not sure if you know about those changes/have a suggestion on what needs to be adapted?
<seb128> hum, http://sourceforge.net/p/gphoto/bugs/974/ has some details
<seb128> hum
<seb128> http://ubuntu-codesearch.surgut.co.uk/ gives a 502
 * ogra_ thought he saw Laney mention it above 
<ogra_> (that it just gets updated, not that it is down thoough)
<Laney> it will return soon
<Mirv> mlankhorst: the qtbase SRU with 1307701 fix is now in unapproved queue.
<Laney> just napping
<Mirv> hmm, the gstreamer SRU updates are also still in unapproved :(
<mlankhorst> Mirv: goodie :-)
<seb128> Mirv, do they fix any issue you are waiting to see resolved?
<Mirv> seb128: just the gst-libav bug #1290368 when seeking h.264 files which I was happy to see Laney's upload early on
<seb128> oh, right
<seb128> maybe nag on #ubuntu-release about it?
<Mirv> since it crashed also eg. thumbnailers
 * seb128 is also unhappy about the lack of action on the SRU queue
<Mirv> yep, I'll give a note there about at least that one
<seb128> Mirv, thanks
<pitti> seb128: queueing that for investigation (sorry, in meeting / busy with other stuff)
<seb128> pitti, no hurry, thanks
<pitti> seb128: my phone mounts quite happily, but that might be because it's got a special rule or so
<seb128> pitti, your phone is a mtp device, not a ptp one, right?
<pitti> seb128: right; but my camera mounts fine, too
<seb128> pitti, that issue is about libgphoto/ptp cameras
<pitti> (and that's ptp)
<seb128> k, mine doesn't
<pitti> yeah, will have a look, and perhaps drop the cam specific rule
<seb128> danke
<ChrisTownsend> tseliot: Hi!  We've been seeing more complaints about black borders around windows after resuming from Suspend w/ Nvidia gfx: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1292830 .  I thought there was a patch provided by nvidia that helped alleviate this.
<tseliot> ChrisTownsend: I think the nvidia driver is already doing the right thing on resume. The symptoms look a little different from the ones in the other bug report
<ChrisTownsend> tseliot: Hmm, ok.  Is that nvidia patch supposed to switch vt's upon resume or am I not understanding what it is supposed to do?
<tseliot> ChrisTownsend: I don't know if this is relevant but it looks at least suspicious (in dmesg): compiz[16459]: segfault at 0 ip 00007f4bd4adb96e sp 00007fff51885ae0 error 4 in libopengl.so[7f4bd4aa5000+4a000]
<ChrisTownsend> tseliot: I also fixed the routine in Compiz to force a full redraw of 10 frames when resuming which was broken for a release or 2 due to upower no longer sedning a mesaage that it is resuming.
<tseliot> ChrisTownsend: right, that's the "other bug" I was talking about (I was the one who suggested the fix there)
<ChrisTownsend> tseliot: Yep:)
<ChrisTownsend> tseliot: So I guess I'm struggling to figure out why folks are still seeing black borders upon resume.  I unfortunately have no nvidia hardware to debug this.
<tseliot> ChrisTownsend: so, yes, the patch for nvidia is just to require a vt switch on resume. Your patch reinitialises FBOs when dealing with resume. I'm not sure what we're missing here. Let me try again on my laptop
<ChrisTownsend> tseliot: The compiz segfault you pointed out might be a Red Herring since there would be no Launcher, Panel, etc. if Compiz was dead.
<ChrisTownsend> tseliot: Ok, thanks!
<tseliot> ChrisTownsend: unfortunately it works well here and I can't reproduce it. I have a hybrid system here, so maybe this can be reproduced only on non hybrid systems (i.e. with only nvidia, and no intel graphics)
<ChrisTownsend> tseliot: Hmm, yeah, maybe that's the key.  Ok, thanks for checking!
<tseliot> ChrisTownsend: np
<mlankhorst> seb128: hm it seems that gtk+ can do grabs too :/
<tseliot> ChrisTownsend: one more thing, the original reporter wasn't using an nvidia driver with the fix (available in >= 331.38-0ubuntu5)
<ChrisTownsend> tseliot: Right.  My concern is that there are still comments being added to the bug.  I've asked for more info from people that are still seemingly affected by this.
<mlankhorst> like if you do crazy stuff on the background
<tseliot> ChrisTownsend: yes, I asked more information in the bug report to see what they're running
<ChrisTownsend> tseliot: Heh, I didn't refresh the page, so we both asked.  At least people will see we are trying:)
<tseliot> ChrisTownsend: :)
<mlankhorst> seb128: what are the grabs in gtk+ for?
<seb128> mlankhorst, menus do grabs at least
<seb128> for keyboard navigation
<seb128> afaik
<mlankhorst> i was still hitting some bugs because of the xigrabdevice calls
<mlankhorst> probably less harmful on the master device, though..
<seb128> Trevinho, bregma: do you guys plan to keep unity-SRUs-for-trusty coming? we didn't get that many fixes landing since release :/
<mlankhorst> at least I hope it's on the master device
<bregma> seb128, yes, the latest landing was blocked by some issues (now resolved) and by vacations
<seb128> bregma, great ;-)
<seb128> bregma, I hope you enjoyed the deserved time off ;-)
 * bregma cues up Pharrell William's "Happy"
<seb128> ;-)
<bregma> seb128, do you anything about translations for SRU bug #1281058 ?
<bregma> that's the logout message bug
<seb128> bregma, yes, I told andyrock that I would update the template, but we are waiting on design to confirm that the string is what they want
<seb128> bregma, let's not include that change yet though, we need to give translators some time before landing the code change (and a langpack update with the updated translations)
<bregma> seb128, Canonical OEM want to know when it will be ready, that particular issue is giving them an itch
<seb128> pitti, dpm: do we have a schedule of langpack updates for trusty?
<dpm> seb128, unfortunately not, I no longer have the time to coordinate those updates :( That said, we should do at least a one-off post-release update
<seb128> bregma, can you check if OEM would be happy with early june?
<seb128> bregma, that seems a reasonable timeframe if we need to collect translations and get langpack updates
<seb128> bregma, works for you?
<mlankhorst> seb128: ok nautilus appears to grab master, I can live with that :-)
<seb128> mlankhorst, what issues does that create?
<bregma> seb128, does the SRU depend on the langpack update, or is it the other way around?
 * bregma is not an expert on i18n in Ubuntu
<mlankhorst> seb128: not many, though it would explain the warnings I was seeing in the Xorg log, I'll make a test for that :P
<seb128> bregma, well, we want langpacks to be updated before the code land, the translations are made on launchpad unity/ubuntu, which means they are not going to be in your unity upload, but in the next langpack export
<seb128> bregma, if we land the code first it's fine, but we introduce english strings to users
<seb128> mlankhorst, k
<seb128> bregma, if we export the langpacks the translations get available on disk, and when unity's code changes land we get nicely translated strings on the screen ;-)
<davidsong> Hi. Not sure if this is the case already. It isn't on windows and should be: a progress spinner / hourglass cursor should take exactly one second to rotate
<davidsong> That way we can visually count time
<davidsong> Is this the right place to advocate such an idea?
<seb128> davidsong, hey, well first step would be to check if that's the case already or not
<Sweet5hark> seb128: /me is happy that he was right for one with the spurious  libreoffice on precise fail.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, ;-)
<andyrock> seb128, bregma i emaild JohnLea
<andyrock> *emailed
<andyrock> waiting for an answer
<seb128> saw that, thanks ;-)
<JohnLea> andyrock; when did you email me? (and about what?) - sorry, I get too much email!
<andyrock> JohnLea, last friday IIRC
<JohnLea> andyrock, seb128; just replied to the email - good you pinged me here, I had completely missed it - please ping me on IRC for anything urgent
<seb128> JohnLea, thanks
<mlankhorst> bleh, not making much out of it yet, touch sucks
<mlankhorst> I think that will be my status update for this week
<Laney> "who wants to touch things anyway?"
<Sweet5hark> Laney: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxm_mwz9sRo
 * Laney gets hammerrolled
<Sweet5hark> Hammerzeit!
<mlankhorst> good idea
 * KombuchaKip waves
<seb128> oh, it's meeting time
<mlankhorst> ah he got the hint :D
<seb128> qengho, Sweet5hark, mlankhorst, Laney, tkamppeter, desrt, attente, larsu, kenvandine(?), KombuchaKip: hey, it's meeting time!
<KombuchaKip> Yo!
 * desrt is getting uncomfortably close to the middle of the list
<andyrock> JohnLea, thanks!
<seb128> desrt, ;-)
<seb128> ok, let's get start
<seb128> qengho, hey, there?
<qengho> Hey!
<qengho> Er, not ready. I'll go next.
<seb128> k
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey
<Sweet5hark> - Bumped LibreOffice 4.2.4/trusty in the PPA
<Sweet5hark> -- note: there were some Qt issues with the precise backport
<Sweet5hark> - Bumped LibreOffice 3.5.7-0ubuntu6.1 for SRU to precise-proposed
<Sweet5hark> -- thanks to seb128 and everyone else enduring that endless /pain with me
<Sweet5hark> - Bumped LibreOffice 4.1.6/saucy in the PPA
<Sweet5hark> - Build >180 full builds of LibreOffice covering the range from 4.2 branch-off to 4.3.0~alpha1 for https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Bibisect
<Sweet5hark> - also: Hammerzeit.
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<seb128> Sweet5hark, how is the menu issue going? still tracking it down?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: didnt get to it much this week, but have an idea how to fix it.
<seb128> ok, let's see next week then ;-)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, thanks
<seb128> qengho, ready or want to be next next? ;-)
<qengho> - in-progress: chromium bugs. 1) sub-window placement. 2) tabs disappearing. 3)
<qengho> - done: two sick days end of last week.
<qengho> EOF
<seb128> qengho, I hope you are feeling better
<qengho> er, 3, I was looking for notes. Still, one and two are big enough that I problably won't get to it.
<qengho> I am, thanks, seb128
<seb128> good
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey
<mlankhorst> hey
<mlankhorst> tons of pointer bugs, and other xorgy bugs
<mlankhorst> oh wait my status update was supposed to be
<mlankhorst> "touch sucks"
<mlankhorst> ^D
<seb128> haha
<mlankhorst> oh and lts-trusty landing
<seb128> good work on the qt/xorg/dnd-segfault-on-touch issues
<mlankhorst> but mostly touch sucks
<mlankhorst> np :-)
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
<seb128> Laney, your turn
<mlankhorst> was with dandrader's help though
<Laney> â¢ Working on a desktop flavour with unity 8 and touch apps. Try a build with http://people.canonical.com/~laney/random-scripts/build-ubuntu-iso & livecd-rootfs from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/unity8-flavour
<Laney> â Next TODO: try on real hw (Mir doesn't work in a VM apparently)
<Laney> â Then get dailies built using the cd image infrastructure
<Laney> â¢ u-s-s reviews and test fixes
<Laney> â¢ cross-building fixes for ofono-qt and signon so that u-s-s can be x-built in utopic again
<Laney> â¢ cheese 3.12, MIR appdata-tools
<Laney> â¢ vte3 0.36.1 with rewrap on resize
<Laney> â¢ Resurrect a lost gnome-terminal patch to take the default transparency value from the theme. We used to have a default purple & slightly transparent terminal but that got disabled at some point so it was just solid purple. In desktop PPA, not distro yet as it's on by default so people will see their settings changed (in other words, I'm scared).
<Laney> â¢ Start on webkitgtk 2.4.2, probably will SRU too as the current one is still waiting in trusty-proposed
<Laney> â¢ DMB: start sil2100's email application
<Laney> â
<seb128> oh, speaking about DMB
<seb128> is Sweet5hark's one still being a thing?
<Laney> I tried to hassle
<Laney> let me email them right now
<seb128> somebody said it would be handled after the election iirc
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> Laney, thank you for getting the unity8 iso bootstrapped, I'm going to start a build/test on a real hw after the meeting as well
<Laney> I don't know if it needs to include drivers or something
<Laney> bregma can maybe assist at this point
<Laney> feel free to update the seed in the ppa until it works
<seb128> ok
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<tkamppeter> cups-filters: Started working on rastertopdf filter to make a CUPS server emulate an IPP Everywhere printer
<tkamppeter> cups-filters, ghostscript: Bug fixes
<tkamppeter> min12xxw: Synced with Debian
<tkamppeter> Bugs.
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<seb128> desrt, hey
<desrt> hey
<tkamppeter> Solved problem of evince not displaying some files correctly with Marek Kasik and seb128.
<desrt> brought the XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP saga to a close by implementing proper support for it vs. OnlyShowIn/NotShowIn in GAppInfo.  committed, bug closed, everyone seems happy
<seb128> great ;-)
<desrt> there were some issues there caused by an old gnome-session patch that added this support which broke things due to the ':' in some sessions now (ie: GNOME-Classic:GNOME)
<desrt> also landed the Implements= support, so now you can find all desktop files that do a particular interface
<desrt> larsu: for you ;)
<larsu> :
<larsu> :)
<desrt> landed the patches for (nullable) and (optional) support in gobject-introspection and that caused some fallout so i spent a day or so chasing around issues and fixing them
<desrt> also did some reviews of kdbus stuff
<desrt> finally, did some initial looking into a gtk backend for mir -- there is existing work here, but it's not particularly complete, and there are some hard problems we face, particularly going forward
<desrt> i think we may want to seriously consider looking at using the wayland backend in gtk and creating some sort of a bridge for wayland/mir instead of (essentially) copypasting the wayland backend to create a new mir one, doing a huge sed patch, then fighting to keep up to date with constant gtk changes
<desrt> will discuss that with robert as soon as i see him...
<desrt> the good news is that the gtk guys are relatively openminded about mir support -- only concerned about maintainership (which is a concern i share)
<seb128> ok, noted, I'm going to take that one up for discussion, trying to get a feeling if that's an option or if that would make people unhappy at us
<desrt> so even if the wayland backend needs some tweaks to accomodate our mir bridge, i think they'd be open to it
<seb128> great
<desrt> and we'd still be in a better place than having an entirely separate backend that none of the upstream developers ever compile/test
<seb128> well, let's see how other people are feeling about that
<seb128> do you have any idea at what level that bridge would be?
<seb128> would it be a Mir thing? like a library that makes wayland clients talk to Mir?
<desrt> i'd ideally want the mir guys to make this part of mir, but rick is concerned that it would slow down their development
<Sweet5hark> desrt: whats the timeline on this btw? One way to bring LibreOffice to MIR native is completling the gtk3 backend. Sooo that would be the fun of stacking an alpha gtk3 backend for LibreOffice on a beta MIR-backend for gtk?
<desrt> so the idea for now is to see if we can possible to it as a third component, or maybe some library-type thing that we could load
<seb128> they were talking about having that compat layer
<seb128> ok
<desrt> i'm not crazy about shims
<desrt> we could just use X if we wanted to do that, right?
<desrt> but at least this will be a much thinner shim...
<desrt> ideally, for the future, we could natively connect wayland clients to a mir-based display server
<desrt> needs discussion, though, for sure...
<seb128> right
<desrt> there's another side of that, as well:
<desrt> the "application logic" stuff is a bit more involved in the mir world than in wayland (where it basically doesn't exist)
<desrt> even with the bridge, we'd probably want to get gtkapplication participating a bit more actively
<desrt> so even if we don't get a mir gdk backend, i suspect we'll want to have a mir gtk(application) backend anyway...
<seb128> ah, that would be nice
<seb128> doesn't seem like something that is going to change a lot either
<desrt> could maybe push some of our ideas at upstream there as well, since it seems that they basically don't consider the problem at all yet...
<seb128> (e.g should be easy to keep up with upstream on that, right?)
<desrt> ya...
<desrt> i recently did a substantial refactoring of GtkApplication to make backends easier and more self-contained
<desrt> was turning into #ifdef hell in there....
<seb128> cool
<desrt> anyway... that's enough detail, i think
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> desrt, thanks for the detailed update ;-)
<seb128> some of those topics are going to be easier dealt with at the client sprint at the end of the month
<desrt> rick wants some sort of a vague idea of a plan before the sprint
<seb128> (we are going to keep updates coming for people who are not there during that week though)
<desrt> so i'll be chatting with robert :)
<seb128> that sounds good
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> hi seb128
<attente> emitting menu shows and hides using submenu-action in u-g-m, need to backport a gtk patch before it can be proposed
<attente> figured out why using shift as an input source switcher doesn't translate capital letters in the correct group properly, but wasn't able to fix it
<attente> sru the group locking fix for g-s-d, thanks seb128
<attente> eof
<Sweet5hark> desrt seb128: (punting my LibreOffice on gtk3 on MIR questions for the sprint then)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, right, too much details to sort out to reply yet
<seb128> attente, do you have a mp for the gtk change to backport?
<seb128> or a bug reference?
<desrt> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729820
<attente> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729820
<seb128> desrt, attente: thanks, I'm going to have a look after the meeting
<desrt> fwiw, the patch is obviously correct but mclasen has a nice idea that we may also want to try
<desrt> attente: let's talk after
<attente> seb128: thanks
<attente> desrt: ok
<seb128> desrt, let's get that patch in, we can revisit/do other changes later if needed
<seb128> well, you guys keep me updated ;-)
<seb128> but if not told otherwise I'm going to review/land that patch to start
<desrt> seb128: there are style issues, of course.... :p
<seb128> lol
<seb128> attente, thanks
<seb128> larsu, your turn
<larsu> yay
<larsu> talked a lot this week with tvoss and push notification people
<larsu> I'm glad I've joined in on that discussion to make them think about the desktop use cases a bit more (thanks seb128)
<larsu> also, looks like we're getting the transparency fix for gnome-terminal
<larsu> rishi has been working on that
<seb128> larsu, thanks for joining, I hope they are going to use your input in that discussion
<Laney> did he do the theme thing?
<larsu> seb128: I hope so too
<desrt> what's this transparency thing all about?
<larsu> Laney: don't know, I don't have a bug pointer yet and he didn't respond back after last night
<desrt> people want it?  people don't want it?
<larsu> desrt: chpe removed transparency upstream
<Laney> !chpe wants it
<larsu> but we figure we'll get a huge backlash if we upgrade and don't have it anymore
<larsu> seb128: I've also fixed a small issue in the theme relating to that (give toolbars a background)
<seb128> larsu, I saw that one earlier, I'm going to look at what is pending and organize some landing
<larsu> that's an issue in the vte test app which might also happen in g-t itself
<larsu> thanks
<larsu> not urgent of course
<desrt> real transparency or fake transparency?
<seb128> I didn't watch trunk stuff too much recently, still focussed on trusty
<larsu> desrt: real
<desrt> 'cause real transparency is actually kinda useless :)
<larsu> ya
<larsu> but people want it
<larsu> I totally agree and never have it enabled - I don't even know if we enable it by default
<larsu> I also did some more 3.12 testing
<larsu> the theme is looking good, I couldn't find any major issue
<larsu> *issues
<larsu> it
<seb128> is the update still blocked on the bash cwd issue to be resolved?
<larsu> it's even better now, because the black bg problem is gone
<larsu> seb128: yes it is. Laney said they had a fix but reverted
<Laney> deferred to sprint like everything else
<seb128> k
<larsu> and I've started looking into theming headerbar'ed apps correctly
<larsu> right now we don't have any theming for those
<seb128> good
<larsu> which is why those apps look _really_ bad
<seb128> "some more 3.12 testing" ... that's about GTK righT?
<larsu> I'm unsure if we want to patch header bars out of dialogs though
<seb128> (I've been running that on my test machine for some days)
<larsu> it's a tiny patch (I think) and those are used everywhere
<larsu> seb128: yes
<seb128> that seems like another topic for the sprint week :p
<larsu> right
<larsu> it runs well, I've now tried to test all the apps and stuff
<larsu> especially the ones were we had theming problems last cycle
<seb128> yeah, I've it running fine
<seb128> out of
<seb128> - the headerbar issues
<seb128> - the buttons on the dialog
<seb128> - the theme
<larsu> the buttons in dialogs look correct for me
<seb128> button, like try to shift-suppr in nautilus
<seb128> well, at least the theming is not right
<seb128> like the border doesn't even go around the whole button in nautilus delete dialog for me
<larsu> ah right, I've seen those
<larsu> and the buttons are too wide
<larsu> but they have a margin
<seb128> the margins/spacing looks weird as well
<seb128> right
<seb128> just a weird one
<larsu> yep
<seb128> anyway, let's discuss that more at the sprint week
 * larsu does his best to alleviate those issues
<seb128> larsu, thanks for looking at those!
<seb128> larsu, </summary>?
 * seb128 assumes so
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<larsu> yes
<larsu> thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, not sure if you are still desktop/wanting to join those meetings?
<kenvandine> hey
<kenvandine> nothing prepared... but i'm not leaving the channel :)
<seb128> good to still see you around ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<kenvandine> but yeah, i'm technically not desktop anymore...
<seb128> right, I'm just unsure when the changes are active
<seb128> seems like they are
<seb128> I was set on the "let's wait for the Malta week to reset things"
<kenvandine> seems so...
<seb128> I hope you have fun in the apps team, please stay around, we would miss you if you didn't ;-)
<kenvandine> i will!
<seb128> kenvandine, great ;-)
<seb128> ok, next
<seb128> KombuchaKip, hey, do you have anything to share this week?
 * KombuchaKip is working on refactoring a Mozilla patch he submitted upstream (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=824909) and working on improving the GUI for managing ACLs (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eiciel/+bug/1315098).
<seb128> it seems like you got reviews for the tb changes
<seb128> you are working on updating those?
<seb128> KombuchaKip, thanks
<KombuchaKip> seb128: Exactly.
<seb128> ok, my turn then
<seb128>  * some utopic merges and syncs (glibmm, telepathy-salut, gdk-pixbuf, libsoup2.4)
<seb128>  * desktop SRUs (e-d-s, g-s-d, gtk) and bugfixes (nautilus)
<seb128>  * some sponsoring (mostly SRUs for trusty)
<seb128>  * played with unity8-mir trusty desktop session to see where it stands (it's working but closer from a tablet UI than from a desktop one atm)
<seb128>  * registered blueprint for the unity8 desktop image, discussed it with various people, played a bit with Laney's script to build an iso (more to come on that)
<seb128>  * started reviewing goals for the team for the cycle (LTS bugfixes, unity8 desktop session, GTK/Mir, clicks integration)
<seb128>  * some bugs triaging/debugging
<seb128>  * touch settings reviews, put a landing request for some of the pending ones
<seb128> </week>
<KombuchaKip> seb128: But there is more refactoring than just indentation. The GLib functions I need aren't available so I have to change quite a bit.
<seb128> KombuchaKip, what functions do you need?
<seb128> KombuchaKip, btw, you might want to use your Canonical email for work done on company work time
<seb128> KombuchaKip, I see that you added a private email in your patch there
<seb128> ok
<KombuchaKip> seb128: update_mimeapps_list() from gio/gdesktopappinfo.c, except it's marked as static and therefore unavailable to other translation units.
<seb128> so, do we have other topics/questions?
<desrt> KombuchaKip: what are you trying to do?
<KombuchaKip> seb128: Yeah I know, I just didn't want to attract any attention and make Canonical look like they have incompetent engineers if my patch turned out horrible, which thankfully it hasn't.
 * desrt saw some noise about g_app_info_remove_supports_type() going by -- was that you?
<seb128> ok, let's wrap the meeting and finish the discussion about KombuchaKip's patch with those interested
<KombuchaKip> desrt: Trying to remove a problematic MIME type from mimeapps.list. The g_app_info_remove_supports_type() function is inadequate.
<seb128> thanks everyone
<Laney> cheers!
<KombuchaKip> desrt: There is no way to remove from both the 'Default Applications' and 'Added Associations' groups, but only the latter using the aforementioned.
<Laney> seb128: wait
<Laney> isn't didrocks back with us?
<desrt> KombuchaKip: what are you trying to do?
<seb128> Laney, he's catching up with things/still being attending CI meeting and stuff until Malta
<KombuchaKip> desrt: Trying to remove a problematic MIME type from mimeapps.list. The g_app_info_remove_supports_type() function is inadequate.
<desrt> yes... but why?
<Laney> aww
<seb128> Laney, I planned to change/update the list after Malta
<seb128> didrocks, if you want to share weekly updates with us before that feel free ;-)
<KombuchaKip> desrt: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=824909
<didrocks> seb128: sure, but not ready yet :)
<seb128> didrocks, I didn't mean to keep you out of the meeting, but I think you said you waited for Malta as well to be set on desktop mode
<didrocks> (and in hangouts :p)
<didrocks> yeah, sounds good!
<seb128> cool
<desrt> KombuchaKip: ah... you're trying to patch up damage done by a buggy previous version of the software?
<KombuchaKip> desrt: Exactly. But it has to be done tactfully / elegantly otherwise it will break everyone's desktop.
<desrt> KombuchaKip: just hack the file for yourself?
<desrt> load it using GKeyFile, modify it, write it back
<KombuchaKip> desrt: Exactly. That's what I'm doing.
<desrt> actually, i guess that's bad advice
<desrt> since the location of this file is changing soon
<KombuchaKip> desrt: No it's good, as long as you use g_get_user_config_dir(), But you have to be careful.
<desrt> now you have my attention
<desrt> but you have to be -very- careful
<desrt> mimeapps.list in ~/.config/ is something that is not yet recognised by any released version of any distro :p
<KombuchaKip> desrt: That's actually not what's used.
<KombuchaKip> desrt: ~/.local/share/applications/mimeapps.list
<desrt> KombuchaKip: ~/.config/ now
<desrt> that's my point...
<KombuchaKip> desrt: But you shouldn't worry about that and let GLib find it.
<desrt> KombuchaKip: glib finds it _because_ i worry about it :p
<KombuchaKip> desrt: lol ;) Ok I need some food.
<desrt> KombuchaKip: take a look at https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=6fd5a8cdaa0dee2217ebe7411adf3ddb37f1827e
<desrt> as of last month, everything is different
<KombuchaKip> desrt: Ok great, but I don't think this will effect me?
<attente> bregma: hey, is there any chance to sru https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1291461 for trusty?
<desrt> KombuchaKip: if you're directly modifying ~/.local/share/applications/mimeapps.list then it will
<desrt> since ~/.config/mimeapps.list will take precedence over it
<KombuchaKip> desrt: Right, but I don't hard code the path. As I mentioned, I'm using g_get_user_config_dir()
<bregma> attente, it's in the SRU queue, it had to land in Utopic first
<attente> bregma: ah, ok, thanks
<seb128> desrt, KombuchaKip: there is no need to worry too much about .config configs, utopic is going to ship the new glib but also a fixed tb, so the issue only happens for <= trusty users in practice
<desrt> KombuchaKip: you appear slightly confused :)
<desrt> KombuchaKip: g_get_user_config_dir is ~/.config/
<desrt> but you said that you think that it is ~/.local/share/applications/ in some cases
<KombuchaKip> desrt: Because that is what it is returning.
<desrt> definitely not.
<KombuchaKip> seb128: There is a need to worry because regardless of what distro they are using, CUPS will still be broken if they are using older thunderbird user data.
<desrt> there is not a single function in glib that would return ~/.local/share/applications/ to you
<desrt> get_user_data_dir() would give you ~/.local/share at least
<KombuchaKip> desrt: We agree to disagree =) I need to eat some food. Take care. =)
 * desrt doesn't consider the return value of a function to be a matter of opinion
 * KombuchaKip makes breakfast anyways
<Laney> adieu
<Laney> larsu: got the patch, will make a package tomorrow
<larsu> Laney: awesome, thanks!
<seb128> Laney, that's not a good end of day word in french btw :p
<Laney> I think I only did 3.8
<Laney> seb128: really?
<seb128> Laney, yeah, that's what you would use if you would never come back
<seb128> like if you had enough of Canonical/Ubuntu and didn't plan on ever joining that channel again
<Laney> haha
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> I looked it up, there's no hint of that http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/adieu
<Laney> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adieu hmm maybe a slight one there
<seb128> is "farewell" something you would use for an "goodbye, see you tomorrow"?
<Laney> it's a bit dramatic, but not as final as you said
<Laney> anyway
<Laney> adiÃ³s!
<seb128> well, I guess adieu is sort of equivalent to farewell
<seb128> you could use it as a "see you some time", but it's less usual
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> have a good evening!
<seb128> do you go climbing tonight?
<Laney> think so
<seb128> (how is your arm doing btw, you were slightly hurt last week)
<Laney> elbow seems okay
<seb128> great
<seb128> have fun then!
<seb128> see you tomorrow
<Laney> although if I poke it hard I can make it hurt
<Laney> hmm
<seb128> don't overdo it then!
<Laney> i'll see if i can resist
<Laney> bye ;)
<sarnold> stop poking it! :)
<seb128> desrt, attente: so, did you want that GTK patch to be uploaded to ubuntu or do you want to rework it first?
<seb128> I though that was a patch already commited upstream, but I see the approach is still being discussed
<seb128> idle/new signal
<attente> seb128: just talking about it with mclasen right now, we might change to his suggestion
<seb128> attente, just saw the #gtk+ backlog, no hurry, I'm going to delay that to tomorrow
<seb128> so you guys can sort it out properly, then we can backport the commit
<attente> seb128: ok, thanks
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> mdeslaur, hey, can you unsubscribe the ubuntu-security-sponsors from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libav/+bug/1277173 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1277173 in libav (Ubuntu) "February 2014 libav security tracking bug" [High,Fix committed]
<seb128> mdeslaur, the utopic upload is stucked in proposed, so it's on fix commited, but there is nothing to sponsor
<mdeslaur> seb128: done
<seb128> thanks
<mdeslaur> well, almost done
 * mdeslaur smacks launchpad
<mdeslaur> ok, done
<seb128> ;-)
<KombuchaKip> desrt: Hey buddy. If ~/.local/share/applications/mimeapps.list is not accessible, as fallback you want ~/.config/<???>/mimeapps.list for forward compatibility?
<KombuchaKip> desrt: nm, I found it. ~/.config/mimeapps.list according to your commit.
<desrt> KombuchaKip: it depends on how you view the situation...
<desrt> if the old buggy version was used with a new glib then the damage would be in ~/.config/
<desrt> if used with an old glib, the damage would be in ~/.local/share
<desrt> i guess you could check both places...
<KombuchaKip> desrt: When ~/.local/share/applications/mimeapps.list is deprecated and we should use ~/.config/mimeapps.list, should I expect that the former location will be gone and something will have moved it to the latter?
<desrt> no
<desrt> we're going to leave the old file in place
<desrt> the new file takes precedence over it, though, including if associations are removed...
<KombuchaKip> desrt: Right so I should check ~/.config/mimeapps.list first, and if it's not there, check the old?
<desrt> KombuchaKip: you could also record an explicit remove into ~/.config/mimeapps.list
<desrt> that would override anything in .local/share
<desrt> really, i'd just process both files...
<desrt> if they're there
<KombuchaKip> desrt: I think what I'll do for now is just check ~/.config/mimeapps.list and if it's not there, then use the old.
<KombuchaKip> desrt: Also, after updating mimeapps.list, wherever it happens to be, is there anything else that needs to be called in order to invalidate / etc caches?
<KombuchaKip> desrt: I saw g_reload_user_special_dirs_cache(), but I don't think it is relevant here.
<desrt> KombuchaKip: i think this function is gone now
<desrt> the mimecache stuff got nuked and its functionality take over by the DesktopDir stuff
<KombuchaKip> desrt: Ok, I'll forget that then.
<desrt> we put a file monitor on the directory -- we will reload it automatically if anything changes
<desrt> there may be a delay, though
<KombuchaKip> desrt: No problem. Worst case, they have to restart Thunderbird.
<KombuchaKip> desrt: (at most once)
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-05-14
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> pitti: Good morning.
<pitti> hey TheMuso, long time no see! how are you?
<TheMuso> pitti: Very well thanks, yourself
<TheMuso> ?
<pitti> TheMuso: quite fine, thanks; shepherding distro tests these days, and refining the tools for that :)
<TheMuso> pitti: Will you be in Malta?
<pitti> TheMuso: yes I will, in the second week
<TheMuso> Thats the last week of May right? I'll be there in the last week of May.
<pitti> right, me too; 23rd to 30st
<TheMuso> Yeah same as me, I'll probably see you around at some point.
<darkxst> pitti, are you familiar with the sbuild launchpad stuff?
<darkxst> is it possible to add aliases to that will pull in PPA's?
<pitti> darkxst: I'm fairly familiar with sbuild, and I know that LP uses it; what do you mean?
<pitti> oh
<pitti> I saw a G+ post not too long ago about someone who wrote clever hooks
<pitti> darkxst: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ChristopherHalseRogers/posts/24T9xSgTMEF
<pitti> darkxst: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+St%C3%A9phaneGraber/posts/KPTfpLKKF8J
<pitti> those might be useful
<darkxst> pitti, yeh I am using the sbuild-launchpad-chroot
<pitti> but then again, sbuild hooks are rather simple to write
<darkxst> pitti, right, the alias' are defined in a horrible shell script
<darkxst> I somehow assumed they would be pulled from lp
<pitti> darkxst: yes, that's supposed to download LP's schroot tarballs
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<seb128> didrocks, lut ;-)
<Laney> hallo
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<darkxst> pitti, yes it downloads a tarball, but seems the actual apt sources are just generated by lots of awk-ish
<mvo> seb128: hi, do you happen to know what "CRITICAL - findToken(): disabled account "ubuntuone" 1 " means in ubuntu-system-settings? I'm trying to add my u1 account on my n4 with utopic and its grayed out :/
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<Laney> hey seb128 & didrocks
<mvo> seb128: it looks just like when I was playing with the u8/mir session on the desktop, not sure though the log message is the same. any hints how I can still add my u1 account on the phone? I need it to to the tests for a new click release
<Laney> I'm alright thanks, you?
<pitti> hey seb128
 * pitti waves to didrocks and Laney too
<didrocks> I'm good, thanks! still a little bit cold here, but at least sunny
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti :)
<Laney> howdy pitti
<Laney> we're supposed to have 17Â° and sun today
<Laney> luxury
<mvo> hey Laney and didrocks
<didrocks> hey mvo!
<didrocks> Laney: waow ;)
<seb128> mvo, hey, no, try asking mardy?
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> Laney, what happened to the rain?!
<Laney> I told its mum that it was being mean to me and it got sent home
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> I hope it doesn't leave around here
<seb128> so far we have sun here as well at least ;-)
<mlankhorst> rickspencer3: your boot failure, does it fail to boot or does it not boot into xorg?
<rickspencer3> mlankhorst, I think it fails to boot into xorg
<mlankhorst> can you try utopic? it has an updated mesa
<mlankhorst> from what i can tell your pc should just work, does ssh work?
<mlankhorst> if so, try apport-collect -p xorg 1319149
<mlankhorst> rickspencer3: for the touchscreen you need qtbase-opensource-src from the sru queue :-)
<rickspencer3> mlankhorst, I could not try utopic, as I had a lot of trouble getting the installer o run
<rickspencer3> mlankhorst, unfortunately, I won't be able to debug much today, I have calls all day
<mlankhorst> ok you can work on utopic, that's fine
<rickspencer3> mlankhorst, you are certain it will work utopic?
<rickspencer3> I'm not so sure
<mlankhorst> neither
<mlankhorst> what exactly is the issue?
<rickspencer3> mlankhorst, first, uniquity does not load 9 times out of 10
<rickspencer3> it stops at the screen with Ubuntu and the dots
<rickspencer3> then, when I did get Trusty to install ...
<rickspencer3> it booted once or twice, but also several times booted to a black screen
<rickspencer3> though I could boot into recovery mode
<mlankhorst> ok
<rickspencer3> good morning desktoppers!
<rickspencer3> seb128, didrocks, and others in Europe who are up o/
<Sweet5hark> moin!
<rickspencer3> Sweet5hark,
<rickspencer3> !
<rickspencer3> moin you say?
<rickspencer3> ===coffee activity===
<rickspencer3>  * Action: rickspencer3 to sip coffee
<Sweet5hark> rickspencer3: Its a universal greeting in northern germany. ;)
<rickspencer3> Sweet5hark, nice to know!
 * rickspencer3 presumes Sweet5hark refers to "moin" and not * to sip coffee
<Sweet5hark> indeed.
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3!
 * Sweet5hark sips his sugar-and-caffeine based coffee surrogate ...
<rickspencer3> bonjour didrocks
 * rickspencer3 wonders why seb128 is avoiding him
<rickspencer3> must be trying to figure out a way to get the Unity 8/Mir Desktop image off the plans
 * rickspencer3 starts escalating the requirements
<Laney> must self drive my car
<Laney> actually we have some prelimenary images there
<Laney> next step is that (IIRC) seb128 was going to boot one of them on his machine and see what more stuff we need to add to get it to work
<Laney> then see about getting it built in the normal way with dailies
<seb128> rickspencer3, salut
<rickspencer3> moin, seb128
<rickspencer3> ;)
<seb128> rickspencer3, sorry but there was food before you in the line ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, maybe I should install a web cam in my house so you can see when I am getting coffee and be ready for my jokes in the morning?
<seb128> lol
<seb128> rickspencer3, I'm still amazed you manage to get up that early btw!
<rickspencer3> seb128, it's 7:15am
<rickspencer3> I live on teh East Coast now :)
<seb128> rickspencer3, right, but I saw joining like an hour ago
<rickspencer3> hehe
<seb128> saw you*
<rickspencer3> right
 * didrocks notes that seb128 put food before manager. Bad for you review dude!
<seb128> didrocks, next reviews are in a year right?
<rickspencer3> when I get up I check my email for irc for fires first thing ;)
<seb128> but then we are going to have a new manager anyway :p
<rickspencer3> lol
<didrocks> yeah, you can "too late!" :)
<rickspencer3> seb128, knows he can do no wrong in my eyes
 * seb128 hugs rickspencer3
 * rickspencer3 hugs seb128
<seb128> Laney, testing the iso on real hardware and tweaking the seed is still on my todolist
<seb128> I didn't manage to get to it after the meeting yesterday, I had accumulated some pings and backlog
<seb128> I hope to do that this afternoon ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, when you do you think we can install that?
<rickspencer3> couplle of weeks?
<seb128> rickspencer3, boot and test, by Malta
<rickspencer3> seb128, sweet
<rickspencer3> I'll have my new 11.6 inch dell with me
<rickspencer3> we can convert it
<seb128> install ... let's see, with some luck that's working without needing to tweak too much
<seb128> good
<Laney> install should work if live does ...
<seb128> which one is that? inspiron 11?
 * Laney makes a bold statement
 * Laney regrets it
<seb128> lol
<seb128> Laney, I was thinking the same but I went for the "with some luck" statement ;-)
<Sweet5hark> Laney: to boldly go where no unittest has gone before!
<rickspencer3> seb128, yeah, I got the inspiron 11
<rickspencer3> I was told that it "just works"
<seb128> rickspencer3, it does indeed ;-)
<rickspencer3> my plan is to be all Unity 8/Mir asap
<seb128> rickspencer3, that's the machine I'm testing unity8/Mir on btw
<rickspencer3> :0
<rickspencer3> so, I will need chromium
<rickspencer3> which supposedly already has a Mir backend
<seb128> qengho probably knows about that
<rickspencer3> and I will need Qt, which supposedly already works :)
<seb128> right
<rickspencer3> seb128, I'm setting up a call so that a few of us can discuss Gtk
<seb128> ok
<rickspencer3> I'm getting slightly different stories from different people, so I thought we could just work it out on a call quickly
<seb128> would it make sense to wait for Malta to discuss it more?
<seb128> k
<rickspencer3> seb128, no, I would like to have at least a rough plan by Malta
<rickspencer3> so we can work the plan at the sprint :)
<seb128> k
 * darkxst is also wondering what is happening with gtk+
<seb128> you mean?
<seb128> upstream?
<darkxst> seb128, no, I know what is happening upstream! in utopic!
<seb128> what do you want to know about GTK in utopic?
<darkxst> seb128, what is blocking 3.12 would be a good start!
<seb128> it's being tested, we discussed it at the weekly meeting here (logs are available if you are interested)
<seb128> the main problem at the moment in GtkHeaderBar use in dialogs
<seb128> larsu is working on that to see what we can do to make them work on e.g Unity
<seb128> one of the changes required is to update our themes
<seb128> Lars said he's going to work on that
<seb128> we might need some Unity work as well
<seb128> then we need to decide if that's going enough or we need to patch GTK as well
<larsu> we definitely need support from unity for border-less windows
<larsu> it can't resize them right now
<larsu> and we'll need a patch if we want traditional title bars on dialogs
<darkxst> seb128, right, I see, can't really help with unity/theming issues
<darkxst> but gtk patches are more probable
<darkxst> I would actually attend your meetings... if they weren't at a god awful time for me!
<larsu> darkxst: what do you mean by "more probable"
<darkxst> larsu, that I could probably help there
<larsu> ah, right
<darkxst> (as long as it doesn't involve theming!)
<larsu> you're really afraid of theming ;)
<larsu> tbh, most of this work involves theming at least a bit
<darkxst> larsu, nope, just find C much more readable than CSS!
<larsu> ha, it's almost the same syntax man ;)
<darkxst> larsu, syntax is not the problem, it just feels like I end up wasting hours anytime I start messing CSS
<darkxst> (same for the couple of websites I have written)
<larsu> right, I know the feeling
<larsu> it's possible to write good css, but almost noone does it
<darkxst> larsu, its possible to write good code in any language, but there are a bunch where no-one does!
<larsu> C isn't necessarily a good example of that, though
<ogra_> bah
<darkxst> I think GNOME C is pretty good in general
<ogra_> so i just got a firefox update that told me to restart the browser with a popup ...
<ogra_> when i clicked it didnt restart
<ogra_> and now trying to start FF i only get a message about FF already running
<darkxst> but certainly I have seen horror code in many languages
 * ogra_ wouldnt like to lose the ~300 tabs he has open across various windows
<larsu> ogra_: firefox should keep those even if it crashes (it shows you a "restore last session?" tab)
<larsu> darkxst: fair enoguh
<larsu> *enough
<ogra_> larsu, well, it shows me "another instance is already running" ...
<larsu> ogra_: ya, kill -9 it first
<ogra_> i'm looking for a safe way out of that :)
<ogra_> ok
<larsu> wait.
<larsu> don't make me responsible
<larsu> if you loose all those tabs
<ogra_> hah
<ogra_> to late ... now i will blame you :)
<darkxst> ogra_, why do you need 300 tabs?
<ogra_> oh, wow
<ogra_>  3188 ?        Sl   1799:52 /usr/lib/firefox/firefox
<larsu> having 300 tabs open is some kind of insanity anyway
<ogra_> that did run since quite some time
<ogra_> well, i do actual work on my machine :P
<larsu> hm, new gtk also loses images in messages dialogs and centers its labels...
 * larsu wonders in how far we want to go to revert those
<larsu> seb128: ?
<ogra_> phew
<ogra_> all fine ...
<larsu> ogra_: awesome :)
<ogra_> it always restores all windows on one workspace though ... but thats something to blame unity for i guess ... not FF
<seb128> larsu, the less reverts the better, maybe check with design/mpt, what they don't flag "no no no" can stay?
<larsu> seb128: good idea. I'll note those down and schedule a call / session in Malta with mpt
<seb128> larsu, looks like mpt should be in Malta the same week as we are, good ;-)
<larsu> yep
<larsu> \o/
 * Laney tries g-t with the transparency patch
<larsu> wheeeee
<Laney> it's a bit buggy
<Laney> it doesn't live update
<Laney> you have to toggle "use colours from system theme" to make changes take effect
<larsu> ugh
<larsu> that's annoying
<Laney> yeah probably just some missing signal bindings though
<larsu> I can have a look at that later
<Sweet5hark> seb128: would there be a chance in Malta for me to present a widely a crazy lunatic vision for Ubuntu?
<mlankhorst> libreoffice replacing unity as shell?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, to who? the team? Mark? ;-)
<ogra_> will you show us the LibO click packages finally ?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: the team, not (yet) Mark. It would be about packaging, so foundations would likely be the ones to consider it ultimately ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, yeah, I'm sure we can organize that
<seb128> humpf
<seb128> Laney, would you take your rain back, please?
<ogra_> no ! ... keep it in france ... we dont want it up here north
<Laney> please put your request in writing and it will be filed and processed in due course
 * Laney sets up the special processing area
<mlankhorst> more red tape!
<seb128> :-(
<Sweet5hark> ogra_: hah, actually, it will most likely say click-packages are not the solution as they only solve a subset of the problem. ;) The idea goes much deeper, but might solve issues on a more fundamental level -- but it would be really something for the long run.
<ogra_> Sweet5hark, well, the phone image will eventually take over the desktop
<ogra_> i woudl actually expect us to move away from debs over the next few years
<ogra_> (for endusers that is)
<ogra_> using image based updates on the desktop (which means readonly rootfs) etc etc
<Sweet5hark> ogra_: yeah, the phone image might be a starting point of what I had in mind. And also yeah: debs are not part of that way to deploy anymore.  ;)
<seb128> ogra_, that's going to be challenging
<seb128> ogra_, did you read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2014-March/001856.html ?
<ogra_> seb128, why ? just drop debs
<ogra_> yes
<seb128> ogra_, if we "just drop debs" we don't have an usable desktop anymore
<seb128> we need to find a way to convert those to clicks first
<ogra_> we just need to leave the old cruft behind ... use debs for building images, give them to developers that run in rw mode and perhaps to server people
<seb128> ogra_, except if you don't care for libreoffice, firefox, chromium, gimp, inkscape, etc
<ogra_> for the rest just make the desktop identical to what we have on the phone today
<ogra_> seb128, right, then you switch your image to writable mode and use it like you did before
<seb128> I though that was not supported?
<ogra_> for the typical desktop user the image based approach works better ...
<seb128> "typical"
<ogra_> it is not supported in the specific image design we use on the phones
<seb128> I guess you mean "if we include libreoffice, firefox, etc in the base image"?
<ogra_> if you have an actual readonly partition instead of a bunch of loop mounted img files you can indeed do it in a supported way
<ogra_> seb128, no, these should be clicks
<ogra_> built from plain upstream ... without distro hacks we have to care for etc
<ogra_> no more maintainer scripts ...
<ogra_> system upgrades done in minutes instead of hours with predictable installations etc
<seb128> right
<seb128> well, we "just" have to convert our archive to clicks
<asac> if we feel we are facing this question: we could reach out to firefox and libreoffice and i am sure with some moderate convincing power they might be happy to feed into our clickstore if that gives them the ability to ship what they want
<ogra_> nah
<Sweet5hark> seb128, orga_:  are you both in Malta? from what I see you are both wrong ;)
<ogra_> we only have to convert the UI apps to clicks
<seb128> Sweet5hark, lol
<seb128> ogra_, it's still a large stack of apps
<ogra_> seb128, sure
<ogra_> thats why i said "within the next years" :)
<seb128> right, fair enough
<seb128> asac, and sure, engaging with upstream to ramp that up is going to be useful/needed
<asac> i think the ones that have upstreams that distribute binaries its not that hard. for those that only distribute sources and are not into the binary business like gnome, its indeed a bit more tricky
<ogra_> why would you use binaries ?
<seb128> do we have a good story on "how to get your app published in the click store" for upstreams?
 * didrocks sees clouds nowâ¦ wonder if it's because of juju or seb128 sending them my way nowâ¦
<ogra_> just use the source ... we have it already ... you just need to make the archive build a click package alongside
<asac> seb128: yes, just upload :)
<Sweet5hark> asac: using upstream binaries is insane for anything nontrivial
<asac> seb128: i know mozilla has been waiting for this ability for ages
<ogra_> seb128, yeah, just push your locally built binary
<asac> mozilla etc. have infrastructure to validate that their build works on ubuntu
<asac> etc.
<asac> they dont have many users, but if they would have thea bility to really distribute their stuff alongside our distro
<asac> they surely would even invest more to make their experience shine by default on ubuntu
<asac> anyway, its clear we probably need a deb story in the click/syustem image world somehow. afaik mvo and foudnations are working on that
<ogra_> we dont :P
<ogra_> we need to make sure that if you switch away from system image you can use debs
<asac> ogra_: we dont?
<didrocks> one source tree to rule them all :)
<ogra_> imho we dont need any deb support in system-image setups
<didrocks> but I have already made the point multiple times :p
<seb128> didrocks, well, the source tree is orthogonal to the apps distribution problem
<asac> ogra_: well, so guess we could say that and pair it with the ability to convert things into your own system image
<asac> to re-lock down
<asac> :)
<asac> lie what was on canoni-tech
<ogra_> fi you have system-image you go with clicks ... if you want debs you switch to readwrite ... and cant go back
<seb128> didrocks, having one unified source tree doesn't give you libreoffice packages in the click store
<ogra_> but then debs need to be properly supported indeed
<asac> disable system image, use apt to fiddle, snapshot a system image, easy distribute :)
<didrocks> seb128: you should the subdirectory built binary and project that to the installed system
<asac> ogra_: the part of the story where you cant go bad just doesnt feel good enough for our standards :)
<ogra_> asac, and how would that work with the server side generated deltas ?
<asac> sounds like a technical detail
<asac> :)
<ogra_> lol
<asac> i am not saying that story is fully developed
<ogra_> well, the design wont allow that
<asac> but its one vector to maybe look at this
<ogra_> my vector is that 80% of the users should be fine with s-i
<asac> yes, for thtat i agree :)
<ogra_> and the other 20 will happily just go with apt-get dist-upgarde
<asac> actually 95% at least
<ogra_> and stay there
<ogra_> we just need to make sure that both work fine and that the switch works properly
<ogra_> i wouldnt provide a switch to go back ..
<asac> maybe its the right way to look at it
<asac> buit lets see; the more we think the better our solutions get
<Laney> larsu: I uploaded it to ppa:laney/experimental if you want to take a look
 * Laney biab
<asac> and we have just started thinking :)
<asac> hehe
<seb128> ogra_, well, your 80% of users being happy assume that we have clicks for libreoffice, chromium, firefox, gimp, pidgin, etc?
<asac> seb128: of course
<asac> seb128: we want t store full of useful killer apps
<asac> open source, proprietary, games etc.
<ogra_> seb128, yes, which means our builders need to roll clicks alongside the debs
<seb128> that seems like a pre-require
<asac> how they get into the store and who is doing that is kind of secondary and technical detail i think.
<seb128> before using system images for desktop
<mdeslaur> I'm not sure anyone will be happy about rebooting their desktop for daily security updates
<mdeslaur> I sure hate as hell when I need to reboot my phone for updates :)
<mvo> ogra_: building them alongside seems to be tricky given that e.g. the file layout will have to be different for clicks (different sysconfdir for example)
<ogra_> mvo, static builds ;)
<mvo> ogra_: right, but even then /etc will be different, plugin loading location, support files (like images)
<ogra_> they will all be relative to the click root
<mvo>  ./configure with the right options can do that, but it would be a build for click and a build for deb
<ogra_> build a static deb ... dpkg -x into the click root ... roll a click package from that root ... done
<mvo> indeed, its totally doable, but "build alongside debs" sounds nicer than "repackage them"  :)
<mvo> but why would we use deb in this case? we could as well skip this step
<ogra_> but we still want to provide the deb
<ogra_> and we build it already
<ogra_> the click creation should just happen alongside
<pitti> tjaalton, mlankhorst: is the provisional mesa MRE still a requirement from somewhere? we reviewed it during the last TB meeting
<mdeslaur> ogra_: uhm, no, we're not going to start building everything statically
<ogra_> indeed it could just build it differently or in aa separate way
<mvo> so debs would be for older distro releases? or why would we keep building it in this future?
<ogra_> mvo, for people wanting to use a traditional setup
<pitti> tjaalton, mlankhorst: it provably caused at least one regression in a stable update (bug 1134974) which was never triaged, and in general it's by and large impossible to regression test that on all the world's hw
<ubot5> bug 1134974 in mesa (Ubuntu) "compiz and other display misbehavior on HD4000 after xatracker/mesa components upgraded to 9.0.2-0ubuntu0.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1134974
<ogra_> mvo, the idea is: everyone gets a system-image install ... people that want to still use debs switch that over to an apt-get based design with a single command ... they cant go back but still use the system like debian or the former ubuntu ... so you please developers
<seb128> pitti, aren't those updates required for new hardware enablement sometimes?
<pitti> seb128: well, that's the tension -- breaking existing systems vs. enabling new ones
<pitti> so I'm asking where that request comes from (OEM team, etc.?)
<pitti> and whether these could rather live in e. g. backports
<seb128> we can't really have an LTS that doesn't run on newer hardware though
<pitti> well, we can't really have an LTS which breaks underneath you either :)
<seb128> indeed, a tricky balance as always ;-)
<pitti> so we either a way to do proper regression testing (but I think that's practically impossible) or confine the impact to new installations
<pitti> of course if we put it into the lts-backports pacakges or into the -backports pocket you'd have the same problem one update later
<tjaalton> pitti: yes, they're needed
<pitti> so if it's e. g. enough to backport them for the 14.04.X releases, the -lts-backport approach seems better
<pitti> (even though it still doesn't guarantee regressions)
<pitti> so the TB is leaning towards revoking the MRE until we get a better approach here
<pitti> at least a plan how to catch regressions (and at the *very* least, triage incoming regression reports)
<pitti> tjaalton: by whom? for what targets?
<pitti> ah, meeting time, will catch up later
<pitti> (just an invalid noise from hangouts, still listening)
<tjaalton> I tried to find the regression bug from the mesa bug list but couldn't
<tjaalton> and the noisy list is only 177 bugs long
<mdeslaur> tjaalton: do mesa updates get testing on our whole lab of certified hardware before they are pushed out to a release? (just curious)
<mdeslaur> ie: how are we making sure we don't regress certified hardware from oems?
<tjaalton> we use piglit
<tjaalton> and used wider testing only when doing a major release update post-ff
<tjaalton> haven't received a bug via oem projects due to an update
<mdeslaur> hrm, I gather most oem projects use intel hardware
<tjaalton> and blobs
<tjaalton> on nvidia/amd
<tjaalton> because they are sooo much easier
<tjaalton> really :)
<mdeslaur> hehe
<tjaalton> still, upstream point releases get tested by others too, we're not in a void
<tjaalton> and it's mostly intel updates in them anyway
<tjaalton> hmm I lied
<tjaalton> so we've done 11 point-release sru's, and got one regression that fell through the cracks?
<tjaalton> which probably got fixed by the next point-release
<tjaalton> pitti: by me for instance who's waiting for some of the broadwell diff in 10.1..10.2 to get in the next point-release
<mdeslaur> tjaalton: well, the regression that fell through the cracks was worrisome
<tjaalton> which bug was it?
<tjaalton> couldn't find it
<pitti> bug 1134974 (see above)
<ubot5> bug 1134974 in mesa (Ubuntu) "compiz and other display misbehavior on HD4000 after xatracker/mesa components upgraded to 9.0.2-0ubuntu0.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1134974
<seb128> (thanks to whoever got the bot back here)
<tjaalton> ah so it didn't even have severity set
<pitti> yeah, as I said it wasn't triaged at all
<tjaalton> well it's a hybrid so dunno
<tjaalton> still, 12.04.2 got the same update and most machines that used it were IVB based, so I'd say this was something that went wrong on his install only
<tjaalton> and I've been using IVB on my desktop for two years now, since it was beta
<tjaalton> we'd know if it was something widespread
<Sweet5hark> Hey guys, its really simple: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1253620/comments/77 so who of you will SRU all dependencies of glib on precise for once?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1253620 in LibreOffice Productivity Suite "Can't open a LibreOffice native file via CIFS share" [Critical,Confirmed]
<Sweet5hark> seb128: ^^ volunteering?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: *sigh* the joke just got serious.
<ogra_> stop making jokes !
<seb128> Sweet5hark, sorry, was in an hangout, reading backlog
<seb128> urg
<Sweet5hark> seb128: you have mail ;)
<seb128> saw that!
<Sweet5hark> seb128: can we agree on ogra_ SRUing all of gnome?
<seb128> wfm
<ogra_> thats scriptable ...
<Sweet5hark> ogra_: the SRU team will likely script back though ...
<ogra_> yeah, thats what i fear
<Sweet5hark> ogra_: ... a drone that finds and kills you with a spoon.
<ogra_> gnome is dead anyway :P
<ogra_> (until the QML re-write)
<seb128> ogra_, it's not friday yet!
<Laney> I wish boring trolling was dead
<ogra_> seb128, ah, damned ... just noticed
<Sweet5hark> ogra_: well, "gnome" was a simplifcation. actually its all that depends on glib-2.0
<Laney> all that uses those macros, at worst
<seb128> I don't understand
<seb128> http://ubuntu-codesearch.surgut.co.uk/search?q=GUINT32_SWAP_LE_BE
<seb128> returns neither gvfs nor libreoffice
<Sweet5hark> seb128: is that searching on precise?
<seb128> it doesn't return glib either
<seb128> Laney, codesearch is busted!
<seb128> Sweet5hark, http://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=GUINT32_SWAP_LE_BE seems better
<Laney> it's re-running on utopic now
<seb128> "re-running"?
<Laney> yes
<seb128> means rebuilding an index/currently incomplete ?
<Laney> I guess it could explain it, could also be buggy though :(
<Sweet5hark> seb128: ... which shows on the first page that this macro is used in macros, so a simple search wont do ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, one solution might be to put a "fixed define" in gvfs to fix that specific issue
<seb128> though I'm unsure how likely that's going to create interaction issues with other component using the wrong macro
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yes, but that might break as client code of gvfs migh do the swap too: swap twice in a broken way => no error, swap correctly once (in fixed gvfs), incorrectly again (in lib linking against gvfs) => busted
<seb128> right
<seb128> Sweet5hark, https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2013-March/180325.html doesn't bring confidence
<Sweet5hark> yep. When I read that back in the days, I felt for Stephan. Imagine debugging a networking issue vs. windows shares from LibreOffice down to glib ...
<seb128> yeah
<Sweet5hark> seb128: what we maybe could do, is putting these in officialish PPA and see if there are any issues for 6 months or so ... but even then. The audience (and thus test coverage) for that PPA would be very small (only people hitting this problem on a LTS, while there is a newer LTS already) ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, that might be a good enough solution for those users though
<seb128> which would be the best way to make everyone happy
<jagannath> hi can any body help me
<jagannath> ??
<ogra_> was that a trick question ?
<kenvandine> mpt, where do you stand on adding custom ringtones and notification sounds in system-settings?  Could we get something on the wiki about that?
<kenvandine> mpt, like using the content picker to select sounds from your music library, or handle downloaded ringtones
<tjaalton> I have two firefox profiles running, and when trying to open a link from thunderbird I get a prompt asking which profile to start, it doesn't let me open the link on an open profile
<didrocks> qengho: hey, in case you don't really remember our discussion, but now, I got multiple confirmation that the "lost tab" bugs is fixed in 36
<didrocks> qengho: I hope it's even fixed in 35 so that your work for getting the fix in chromium will be easierâ¦
<qengho> didrocks: Yes, thanks.
<didrocks> yw
<seb128> qengho, do you know when 35 is becoming stable?
<qengho> seb128: Probably end of this month.
<tedg> Laney, How about "ubuntu-unicorn"! :-)
<ogra_> ubuntu-desktop-ng
<ogra_> :)
<tedg> omg-ubuntu
<ogra_> ubuntu-da-fjutscha
<Laney> ubuntu-me-harder
<kenvandine> ubuntu-desktop-omg
<seb128> ubuntu-finally-no-compiz
<seb128> ;-)
<ogra_> ++
<seb128> no wm either though atm :/
<seb128> unity8 on a desktop feels like a tablet UI
<Laney> very early days
<ogra_> just bribe the filemanager app guys into adding a desktop :)
<stgraber> we could also call it ubutnu, that'd be in line with what we use for our pre-release services :)
<stgraber> (just to confuse the hell out of everyone)
<Laney> :D
<seb128> Laney, thanks for the work on bootstraping and sending that email btw ;-)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, what happened to your normal you?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: normal me being "Sweetshark"?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, yeah
<seb128> Sweet5hark, you are also not on the Canonical IRC it seems
<Sweet5hark> seb128: did a "do-release-update" to trusty on the pandaboard where that was running, and the machine didnt come up with a sshd :/
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> Sweet5hark, anyway, real question for you ... ;-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yes?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, what do you see as your focus on lo for u-cycle?
<seb128> the packaging changes you mentioned, keeping up with upstream, bugfix I guess
<seb128> GTK3/Mir work maybe?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, I'm just trying to wrap my head around what the team is doing this cycle ;-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yes, thats roughly the agenda. plus (but thats more upstream) getting more unittesting and CI in there ..
<seb128> ok, makes sense
<seb128> Sweet5hark, thanks ;-)
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-05-15
<Laney> hallo
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey Laney
<Laney> hey seb128, what's up?
<seb128> we have some blue sky today!
<didrocks> pfff, usual business in the "south" :p
<seb128> wait for those rainy clouds I just send
<seb128> they should be on time for your midday exercice :p
<didrocks> seb128: I plan to leave for exercise in 40 minutes, ahah, too late! :)
<seb128> the forecast looks good for Lyon this week/w.e, nice for you
<seb128> not so much next week though
<didrocks> yeah, but again, they will be wrong! :)
<didrocks> at least, until I'm leaving for Malta
<seb128> haha
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> and then, as usual, it will rain like cats and dogs just to go to the tramway for the airport trip
<seb128> yeah, right, let Julie under the rain and go to the sun
<didrocks> yeah \o/
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> that's how you ensure that someone miss you :p
<didrocks> (just for the weather of course)
<seb128> right, what else? ;-)
<seb128> "I married Didier to get good weather, nothing else"
<didrocks> :)
<Mirv> :)
<xnox> seb128: i'd like to join Debian GNOME team =) i've sent an application about it on alioth.
<seb128> xnox, that seems like a good idea ;-)
<seb128> (not sure who approves members nowadays, I've not been really active in the team for a while)
<Laney> why are you asking in *ubuntu*-desktop for that?
<seb128> you might want to check with them on #debian-gnome oftc
<Mirv> seb128: I filed bug #1319711 for ubuntu-system-settings AP test that started failing yesterday
<ubot5> bug 1319711 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "test_tz_list_initially_empty started failing in image #29" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1319711
<seb128> Laney, ^
<seb128> ogra_, ^
<Laney> ok
<xnox> seb128: well you are an admin, you can approve people =)
<seb128> xnox, right, except that I don't feel like I've been member of that team enough recently to take admin decision
<seb128> that's more a leftover status
<seb128> thanks for asking on #debian-gnome ;-)
<Sweet5hark> So, sometimes after suspend on trusty I get a different looking lockscreen  (with a gtkish prompt) and that one always claims my password to be wrong. Known issues?
<seb128> no
<seb128> is that similar to the < trusty lockscreen? (gnome-screensaver)
<seb128> did you check you keyboard layout in there?
<Sweet5hark> Keyboard layout shouldnt be an issue, Im using US everywhere.
<Sweet5hark> The thing has a gnome3ish top bar and says "Light DM" there. FWIW, it might be because I installed quite a few xubuntu packages which might have messed with that.
<Sweet5hark> actually, the background is not my session wallpaper but something xubuntu-branded, so yeah.
<Laney> you probably got light-locker
<seb128> Sweet5hark, ok, I don't know about that one, but what Laney said
<Laney> I guess it's supposed to accept your password though, so if you're inclined you might want to debug with xubuntu people
<Sweet5hark> seb128, Laney: Indeed, I had that package (now removed). You make that sound like its an illness. Can I get vaccination? ;)
<Sweet5hark> lets see if this helps in the next wakeups ....
<seb128> Sweet5hark, well, you might still want to report a bug to be nice to xubuntu
<seb128> let us know
<Sweet5hark> lets see if it solves it ...
<Sweet5hark> seb128: (and I will have a hard time describing reproduction: I had a weird unity/xubuntu mix there and it only happened sometimes)
<Laney> you sometimes got different lock screens?
<Laney> that sounds ungood
<Laney> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/15/uk-forecast-enjoy-hottest-day-year-weekend
<Laney> (H)
<seb128> Laney, they forecast 26Â°C here next week
<Laney> haha
<Laney> don't take this away from me!
<seb128> you can file a written request, it's going to be precessed in due course... ;-)
<seb128> meanwhile it's grey and windy again
<seb128> take your rain back!
 * didrocks sees blue sky here
<Laney> la la la la
<didrocks> failed to run before the dentist though due to this cu2d request
<didrocks> so, I guess that will be post-dentist :p
<seb128> didrocks, dentists? good luck!
<seb128> just checking? or anything to get fixed?
<didrocks> thanks! just checking yeah, normally :)
<seb128> good
<didrocks> I decided to not have to wait for 8 years before checking back this time :p
<didrocks> only 2!
<seb128> haha
<seb128> Julie made you, right? ;-)
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<seb128> :-)
<didrocks> (never had *any* issue in that space)
 * didrocks touches woods
<seb128> I had when I was a kid
<didrocks> like a lot of people apparently
<seb128> I didn't for like 15 years now
<didrocks> shouldn't be enjoyable :p
 * seb128 touches wood as well
<ochosi> Sweet5hark: sounds also like you have lightdm-gtk-greeter (which is what xubuntu uses over unity-greeter)
<Sweet5hark> ochosi: thanks, also removed now
<seb128> Laney, so, I got side tracked in doing slidedecks yesterday, but looking again to the unity8 iso
<seb128> Laney, if I use your script, is it going to use the ppa to build the iso?
<seb128> Laney, or asked different "how do you I get the patched upstart on the iso"
<seb128> upstream and unity8-desktop-session
<Laney> yeah the script adds the ppa
<Laney> see add_ppa in there
<Laney> don't forget to use the new livecd-rootfs auto/config from the ppa on your host
<seb128> I installed that deb
<Laney> nod
<seb128> ogra_, please avoid calling compiz cruft, it's still our main desktop and we have people doing good work on it ;-)
<ogra_> heh, ok
<seb128> no point to demotivate/dismiss good work
<seb128> thanks
<ogra_> sorry :)
<ogra_> it serves me fine indeed :)
<seb128> no worry ;-)
<seb128> grrr
<seb128> chroot: failed to run command '/usr/bin/env': No such file or directory
<seb128> wth!
<seb128> bah, it works in /tmp, I wonder if there is something it doesn't like about my user directories or maybe ecryptfs
<seb128> well, at least I got it not erroring out
<rickspencer3> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3!
<seb128> rickspencer3, good "morning" (is 6am late enough to be qualified like that?)
<rickspencer3> bonjour didrocks
<seb128> oh, it's 7am
<rickspencer3> hehe
<seb128> good morning then ;-)
<rickspencer3> indeed, I slept in
<didrocks> so late ;)
<seb128> lol
<rickspencer3> didrocks, seb128 for the year I lived in France, one of our friends teased me that I was like "the chickens"
<didrocks> yeah, that's the right expression :)
<seb128> indeed
<didrocks> and suit well to France FWIW :)
<rickspencer3> oh well
<didrocks> ok, time for dentist!
 * didrocks will continue reading juju doc while waiting
<seb128> didrocks, good luck
<didrocks> seb128: all went well :)
<didrocks> radio + scaling (tartar removal)
<didrocks> and that's it :)
<didrocks> I would have never guessed that scaling can be used that way :)
<seb128> hehe
<mpt> kenvandine, I think custom ringtones and notification sounds would be a fine idea, but I donât set the product requirements. ;-)
<kenvandine> sure, it's not on any current list
<kenvandine> mpt, but... users expect to be able to set custom ringtones :)
<ogra_> lets just make a list then :P
<ogra_> users also expect to set their own wallpaper ...
<kenvandine> mpt, and rickspencer3 told me to make sure it got added :)
<ogra_> not that we would allow that one either ...
<kenvandine> ogra_, good point :)
<ogra_> (and we still have a system-settings option for the wallapaer stuff)
<ogra_> (which is a no-op)
<kenvandine> true... it half works :)
<kenvandine> greeter
<ogra_> indeed
<ogra_> i still happily use my custom pic on the greeter
<marga> Hi! There are a bunch of files in /etc/X11/Xsession.d that modify the STARTUP variable, always adding to it without deleting the rest of the content.  Recently, though 99upstart was introduced, which replaces STARTUP with "init --user" thus deleting any changes done to it by other scripts.
<marga> Is this on purpose? It's breaking ssh-agent for me, but I suspect it probably breaks other things for other people.
<marga> I use ssh-agent and not gnome-keyring daemon, it used to start because it gets added through 90x11-common_ssh-agent, but it doesn't start anymore now that 99upstart deletes it from the STARTUP variable.
<seb128> Laney, mpt, kenvandine, larsu, charles: settings meeting?
<larsu> seb128: I'll join in a couple of minutes
<seb128> marga, xnox was working on the ssh agent issues I think
<seb128> check with him directly maybe
<seb128> he's probably the best to ask about that
<marga> I saw some changes related to gnome-keyring
<kenvandine> i didn't really have anything to discuss, cramming to finish something up before leaving for malta
<seb128> kenvandine, ok
<xnox> marga: ssh-agent has a native upstart session job.
<marga> xnox, you mean the openssh-client package?
<xnox> marga: thus ssh-agent should be working correctly under upstart managed desktop user session.
<xnox> marga: correct shipped in the openssh-client package.
<marga> It's not working for me.  It's possible that it's something related to local customizations.  I'll investigate further.
<seb128> larsu, don't bother
<xnox> marga: well, read /usr/share/upstart/sessions/ssh-agent.conf especially pre-start script.
<marga> xnox, ok, thanks
<xnox> marga: as there are a number of conditions that need to be satisfied for ssh-agent job to run on start-up.
<xnox> marga: or, in the logged in session $ initctl --user status ssh-agent, should say start/running.
<xnox> if not, something is not working correctly.
<marga> xnox, I'm missing the upstart file
<marga> I guess that's the root cause of the problem :)
<xnox> marga: =))))) you can disable upstart managing the desktop session by commenting out your desktop session from /etc/upstart-xsessions
<marga> xnox, what would I lose if I did that?
<xnox> marga: and then it should all be "normal xinit/gnome-session" with no upstart managing the user session.
<xnox> marga: we have converted _all_ flavours to use upstart sessions, and some packages started to assume that upstart is available in the desktop session.
<xnox> marga: and thus some things may be missing dbus-activation files and/or xdg-autostart files. In that case those services will not be running.
<marga> ok. Well, I'll make sure that the upstart file is where it should be, then.
<xnox> marga: but i would consider that a serious / sru bug. As the intention was that in Trusty, one should be able to run a non-upstart-managed desktop session by default.
<xnox> marga: yeap. if something still doesn't work properly, feel free to ping me =)
<marga> xnox, thanks! :)
<seb128> larsu, sorry I was discussing with some QA guys, the "don't bother" is because nobody was there, so no point
<seb128> we just had some QA guys and Ken who joined later
<larsu> okay
<didrocks> Laney: I guess you saw it, but just in case: http://debarshiray.wordpress.com/2014/05/15/transparent-terminals-back-in-fedora/
<didrocks> not sure if it's linked to your work as well :)
<Laney> didrocks: no, but as it happens I am working on that patch atm ;)
<Laney> to add the theme stuff back for us
<didrocks> yeah :)
<Laney> rishi wrote all of it afaik, then larsu passed it on to me
<ember> [D
<antarus> hrm
<antarus> you don't take bugs in libreoffice?
<antarus> apport seems to not let me send a crash report
<antarus> hrm I guess it is in [main]
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-05-16
<Laney> howdy
<Laney> happy friday!
<mvo> happy friday Laney
<mvo> and good morning seb128
<Laney> hey mvo
<Laney> how's it going?
<Laney> still enjoying being back? ;-)
<didrocks> hey Laney, morning mvo
<mvo> not too bad, sunny here and I have a cup of tea, what more to wish for?
<mvo> hey didrocks
<Laney> lut didrocks
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<seb128> hey Laney didrocks mvo
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<Laney> hey hey hey
<czajkowski> Gooood morning folks
<seb128> czajkowski, hey, how are you?
<czajkowski> Good thanks working away in Budapest. just had a random person walk up and say he uses Ubuntu and loves it
<czajkowski> so nice to see random people using it :)
<seb128> nice ;-)
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<pitti> hey czajkowski
<seb128> pitti, salut, Ã§a va ? joyeux vendredi !
<pitti> seb128: Ã  toi aussi, merci !
<seb128> 'ci ;-)
<czajkowski> pitti: Salut!
<czajkowski> very much Joyeux Vendredi!
<seb128> czajkowski, do you have a conference in Budapest? or just travelling for fun? ;-)
<czajkowski> seb128: running community events, so was in Vienna Monday, Istanbul Tuesday, Budapest last night and here till Sunday till I head to Vilnius
<czajkowski> May is a tad busy :)
<seb128> nice, but a bit crazy at the same time!
<seb128> you are not too tired by eow?
<seb128> well, at least you can settle down for the W.E, and Budapest is nice ;-)
<didrocks> waow, czajkowski is accumulating miles ;)
<czajkowski> today I've a backlog of mail as was on hols  the previous week, but starting a new thing on a friday, no meetings and no mails, and working on a project so tat'll be nice
<czajkowski> *that'll
<czajkowski> July and August is dead :)
<czajkowski> yay for Europe shutting down !
<seb128> lol
<seb128> you can go to summer vacation places and do community work there ;-)
<czajkowski> I know :D
<czajkowski> had to be some benefit!
<sabdfl> hi folks
<sabdfl> [104456.655422] systemd-hostnamed[20855]: Warning: nss-myhostname is not installed. Changing the local hostname might make it unresolveable. Please install nss-myhostname!
<sabdfl> por que?
<seb128> sabdfl, hey
<seb128> sabdfl, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnss-myhostname/+bug/1162478
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1162478 in libnss-myhostname (Ubuntu) "[FFe] [MIR] libnss-myhostname" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<sabdfl> tak seb128
<seb128> sabdfl, basically there is disagreement on nss-myhostname being the right solution but nobody had slot to work on an alternative/a better solution
<seb128> sabdfl, see e.g comment #6 from Steve
<seb128> yw ;-)
<darkxst> sabdfl, seb128, right we depend on that in ubuntu GNOME, but I am not even sure its the right solution!
<xnox> darkxst: reading the bug report, it sounds like in debian/ubuntu we should patch hostnamectl to not hard depend on libnss-myhostname, and able to just update hostname in "the debian-normal" way.
<darkxst> xnox, yes exactly, those bugs date back a while
<darkxst> I guess these integration issues need to improve as we move towards systemd!
<seb128> well, we are already using the system utilities for some cycles
<seb128> changing init system doesn't make a difference there
<darkxst> seb128, that bug predates that though
<darkxst> I think?
<seb128> no
<seb128> the warning is one from systemd-hostnamed
<seb128> there wouldn't be a warning if systemd-services was not in us
<seb128> use
<seb128> Laney, do you know if, with your script, the iso build relying on the arch of the machine that runs the build?
<Laney> yeah you have to build the livefs on the right arch
<Laney> that's why we have buildds for the cd images
<seb128> k
<seb128> do you have an amd64 iso? any chance you could put it online somewhere I can download it? ;-)
<Laney> okay
<seb128> that stupid uefi machine refuses to boot 32 bits
<seb128> and mir fails to start with some EGL errors on my dell mini
<seb128> doh
<Laney> it doesn't have lightdm, but you should be able to manually install stuff
<seb128> Laney, in fact don't bother, my test laptop run 64 bits trusty
<seb128> I can run the build script there
<seb128> yeah, I just did that on my dell mini
<Laney> k
<seb128> now I get a cursor and nothing else
<seb128> but the unity8-mir log has elg errors
<seb128> which would be just that Mir doesn't like the hardware
<seb128> I know it runs on the inspiron 11
 * seb128 starts a build and go for lunch meanwhile
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> is it only going to work on quite limited hardware?
<seb128> I don't know
<seb128> but I want to rule out an hardware support issue
<seb128> Mir runs fine on my installed system on the inspiron 11
<seb128> so I want to make the iso work here
<Laney> nod
<seb128> (if I get the same EGL error at least it's sign there is another problem than hardware support)
<seb128> Laney, you can add "dpkg-dev" to the list of packages to install in your build iso script  (I had to install that on my stock install from my test box)
<Laney> seb128: you mean in the comment?
<seb128> Laney, yes
<Laney> ok
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> there you go
<Laney> seb128: I'm merging the seed into the main touch one as discussed on the ml
<Laney> so make changes there from now on
<seb128> Laney, ok, did you add lightdm?
<Laney> will do
<seb128> I hate technology today, or tech hates me, not sure yet
<seb128> the 64 bits iso is not seen by the inspiron 11
<seb128> I wonder if the uefi doesn't consider it a valid image
<Laney> there's a chance some special uefi stuff might not be done by that script
<Laney> if you can turn it off i'd try that
<seb128> right
<seb128> no I can't
<seb128> I disabled the secure boot or whatever
<seb128> it already did the same by then the first time I tried to install a 32 bits iso
<seb128> (I did that without thinking, that's what I've on my box since that's a 32 bits install and vms need to match)
<Laney> seb128: might be easiest to ask cjwatson what we might be missing
<seb128> Laney, yeah, I'm going to test the stick on my laptop in a bit
<seb128> need to close IRC first for that though :p
<seb128> Laney, ok, so key works, and once lightdm is installed, "sudo start lightdm" gives a working unity8/mir session with sidestage, working settings, etc
<seb128> so some issues there
<seb128> - the iso is not uefi compliant
<seb128> - Mir doesn't work on the dell mini for some reason
<Laney> Let's see if uefi works once it's built normally
<Laney> I bet there's some magic there
<Laney> like I see grub-efi in the ship-live seed and I have no idea how that gets on the iso but it's not mentioned in my log
<seb128> right
<seb128> well at least with lightdm on we have a working iso
<Laney> good enough as a start
<Laney> I'll start by uploading ubuntu-touch-meta to add this
<Laney> ogra_: ^ fyi, don't have a heart attack when you see this ;)
<seb128> yes
<seb128> thanks
<ogra_> Laney, heh, i wont
<ogra_> Laney, that might break terh emulator though
<Laney> it's a new binary
<Laney> won't affect existing things unless they do something weird
<ogra_> ah, ok
<Laney> like 'install all packages from this source'
 * didrocks notices Laney take care of ogra_'s heart
<ogra_> completely new seed bit then
<didrocks> like for an old old man :)
<ogra_> i *am* an old man !
<Laney> yeah it's like my mum's cat
 * ogra_ shakes his cane
<Laney> no sudden movements or loud noises
<didrocks> ogra_: I was going to offer you a cane :p
<Laney> hair starts falling out, etc
<didrocks> ahah
<ogra_> ... it starts and ends with diapers
 * Laney gives ogra a nice can of tuna and a bowl of milk
<ogra_> *omnomnom*
<ogra_> *MEOW!!*
<didrocks> tuna and milk? that sounds like english food :p
<Laney> it's up
<Laney> now for livecd-rootfs
<Laney> alright
<Laney> have a good weekend desktoppers
<seb128> Laney, thanks, you too!
<seb128> same to everyone
<seb128> see you monday
<seb128> +on
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-05-17
<ari-tczew> hello
<ari-tczew> quick question: can we upload 3.12 versions for utopic, or is it still not clear?
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-05-18
<ry> hello, i have a ubuntu 14.04 system with a dm-crypted root disk.. -usually- prompts for password during the boot process to unlock itself, about a week ago, rather than prompting for a password it drops into a initramfs shell. i booted up with a live cd to verify everything was intact and I'm able to mount the /dev/sda3 with my password using cryptsetup, but I can't figure out how to get the install to work properly
<ry> does anyone have any ideas/advice on how I can repair this?
<czajkowski> ry: pretty kuch a dead channel at the weekend
<ry> =z
<czajkowski> ry: #ubuntu is a support channel may be better at this time of the day
<ry> i asked last night, didn't have much luck
<ry> i didn't fix the issue, though i learned a little more about LUKS in the process
<ry> kind of a crazy issue to have... and i'm sure the fix was something so straght forware
<ry> straight forward*
<ali1234> ry: you need to identify the problem of course...
<ali1234> what was the last thing you did before it stopped working?
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-05-11
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> pitti: bonjour pitti. Ã§a va, et toi ?
<pitti> didrocks: je vais bien aussi ! c'Ã©tait un grand dimanche, beaucoup du soleil (et de la glace âº )
<pitti> didrocks: we went to a "Tribute to George Gershwin" concert on Friday, and to bowling on Saturday
<pitti> ^ my best games so far, I was on fire :)
<didrocks> yeah, I saw your post on g+, well done! :)
<willcooke> morning
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<seb128> good morning desktopers, didrocks, willcooke
<didrocks> re seb128
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: prima, danke!
<Laney> ahoy!
<willcooke> pip pip
<didrocks> morning Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you? good w.e?
<Laney> hey fellas
<Laney> It was three days but I don't entirely remember what I did on Saturday
<Laney> wtf
<Laney> anyway the other days were nice, climbing and seeing friends!
<Laney> the staying up all night bit was not so fun in the end
<larsu> Laney: because of the result?
<Laney> ya
<Laney> quite a few big beasts lost their seats which I guess was interesting in a schadenfreude kind of way
<larsu> ah right, you don't have that list thing going on that we have in addition to direct candidates
<Laney> nop
<seb128> Laney, do you know if we have details on what can go to restricted and how you target that section?
<seb128> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu states but " Supported software that is not available under a completely free license." but that's not really explaining a lot of the details
<Laney> the normal way when you accept the new packages no?
<Laney> I thought that it was only meant to be non free drivers though
<seb128> right
<seb128> happyaron is asking because he wants to get some IM things there
<Laney> is it redistributable?
<seb128> I'm unsure about the details
<seb128> they include binaries in the deb that are not built from the source/on our infrastructure
<seb128> the copyright states
<seb128> "The binary package (without modification) is freely redistributable
<seb128>  for non-commercial purpose,"
<Laney> freely (not freely)
<Laney> I guess talk with the rest of the archive team
<seb128> right
<seb128> thanks Laney
<Laney> is there going to be some UI way to install this?
<seb128> I think they would like a checkbox in ubiquity
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> can somebody please take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/ubuntu-themes/mate-fixes/+merge/229649?
<seb128> hey dholbach
<seb128> Laney or larsu can probably help you
<dholbach> <3
<dholbach> thanks seb128, Laney and larsu
<Laney> dholbach: I think the review requested on 2015-05-05 was by me. ;-)
<dholbach> ah yes
<larsu> I hate MRs that don't explain what they do
<larsu> "Add MATE compatibility" :/
<larsu> caja is their renamed nautilus?
<Laney> ya
<larsu> to be honest, I'd prefer it if mate shipped its own theme
<seb128> that's a valid position, feel free to comment saying that
<larsu> we already have a apps/nautilus.rc - and now we need to add caja just because they didn't like the name?
<seb128> we can also symlink if that's easy?
<larsu> which gets loaded for everyone (even non-mate users)
<seb128> or can't they get their fork to load nautilus.css?
<larsu> seb128: no, the file contains references to the renamed widgets...
<willcooke> there would be less maintenance for us too if they shipped their own right?
<seb128> oh, right, they renamed code/widgets
<larsu> willcooke: ya. They forked all the things and renamed widget classes and such, which is why this is an issue
<seb128> less maintenance +1
<larsu> I mean, it's totally not a big deal to ship this one thing of course
<seb128> if we can support them at low cost we should
<larsu> I guess I'm making a slippery slope argument
<seb128> but if they create work they should maintain it, it would also make them not block on us for review/upload
<larsu> but I really think they'd be better off with their own theme (including faster turn around for them, which is something they're complaining about)
<seb128> +1
<larsu> and I don't feel I'm in the right position to test this properly (would have to install mate etc)
<larsu> the icon symlinks are a good idea I guess, but would be moot after we move to -symbolic, which is something other desktops have been asking about as well
<larsu> and it's something I wanted to look at this cycle anyway (hi ochosi ;) )
<Laney> pretty sure that they already forked the themes
<Laney> this would only be interesting if we were going to merge again
<larsu> Laney: do you think that would be worthwhile?
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mate-artwork/0.4.7
<larsu> I'm only arguing slippery slope here - this is really not that big of a deal
<larsu> is someone of the MATE devs around?
<Laney> If someone can get added to the team so they can fix/review themselves then maybe
<Laney> that'll be flexiondotorg
<Laney> (not added right now, but soon)
<larsu> flexiondotorg: hey, what are your plans regarding the theme (see scrollback)? You forked it, but want to merge again?
<larsu> Laney: I really think it'd be easier if they had a fork to make sure we don't step on each other's toes. We don't check if our changes break MATE (and probably not the other way around either)
<Laney> okay
<larsu> let's wait for their rationale thoguh
<GunnarHj> Hi seb128!
<GunnarHj> seb128: Did you see my latest comment at bug #1443178?
<ubot5> bug 1443178 in accountsservice (Ubuntu) "Accounts Service always relies on language fallback if never set by the user" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1443178
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey, on the phone
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, thanks for letting me know.
<popey> \o/ filed my first wily bug :) - Can someone on vivid see if it's new to wily or also on vivid? bug 1453763
<ubot5> bug 1453763 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "Unable to differentiate between toggled and untoggled buttons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1453763
<larsu> popey: same issue in vivid. The gradient is different, but I agree that it's hard to spot. I'll reassign to the theme
<larsu> s/spot/discern
<larsu> and I guess we need a design task for this as well...
<flexiondotorg> Laney, seb128, dholbach, larsu, willcooke - Ubuntu MATE does have it's own forked versions of the light themes.
<larsu> flexiondotorg: so the MR we were looking at is obsolete?
<flexiondotorg> The merge proposal was just to add basic compatibility to Ambiance and Radiance.
<flexiondotorg> larsu, Well, it is old. I don;t know it will apply cleanly.
<larsu> flexiondotorg: regardless of whether it applies, why do you think we need compatibility if you have your own theme?
<mpt> Trevinho, hi, could you possibly take a minute to answer the last commenterâs question in bug 1308800?
<ubot5> bug 1308800 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity doesn't respawn all the times on crashes" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308800
<flexiondotorg> larsu, Mainly because you can just install MATE from the repos but not use Ubuntu MATE. In that case the panels are not correctly rendered by Ambiance and Radiance.
<larsu> flexiondotorg: hm - that means we'll always have to mirror the themes, right?
<flexiondotorg> larsu, Yes, I am merging changes to the ubuntu-mate-artwork package periodically.
<flexiondotorg> larsu, There are some changes I am carrying that are probably not suitable for Ambiance and Radiance so I can't see that we can unify them.
<flexiondotorg> larsu, But the minor tweak to get MATE working with Ambiance and Radiance will be fine to merge.
<larsu> flexiondotorg: but using Ambiance on mate will give a subpar experience anyway...
<flexiondotorg> larsu, No, it works well. Just the panel issue really.
<flexiondotorg> larsu, What do you forsee as subpar?
<larsu> flexiondotorg: well, you do have a fork, so presumably that's what you want people to use, no?
<larsu> flexiondotorg: that merge request contains much more than the panel issue
<flexiondotorg> larsu, The fork was mostly because of the panel issue to start with. Since then I've overridden the symbolic icons with full color icons and changed the orange highlighting to green.
<flexiondotorg> larsu, In essence Amiant-MATE and Radiant-MATE are 99% of Ambiance and Radiance. Just with green hinting and full colour icons.
<larsu> flexiondotorg: so it seems that merging the panel fixes into Ambiance is enough?
<flexiondotorg> larsu, Yes. I think so.
<larsu> flexiondotorg: that sounds much more reasonable. Mind updating the MR (or making a new one)?
<flexiondotorg> larsu, OK. I'll do it sometime this week.
<larsu> thanks
<larsu> Laney: I guess there's no upstream bug for the menubar patches we have in totem?
<larsu> there doesn't even seem to be a launchpad bug?
<Laney> larsu: I can't remember, sorry, darkxst did them
<larsu> no worries
<larsu> just working my way through this issue just now
<Laney> I guess we could submit it once this issue is fixed and see what happens
<larsu> right
<Trevinho> mpt: sure
<Laney> desrt: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11078996/ ?
<Laney> (tracker's testsuite broke with new glib)
<Laney> also, and more importantly, hello!
<desrt> good morning :)
<Laney> good weekend?
<desrt> Laney: who wrote this patch?
<Laney> me
<desrt> Laney: yup
<Laney> think of it as an opening offer
<desrt> your patch is suspicious...
<desrt> ah.  i think it's right, though
<Laney> this: https://git.gnome.org/browse/tracker/tree/tests/libtracker-miner/tracker-monitor-test.c#n638 is what breaks
<desrt> i just wonder about the case directly above
<Laney> we now get a MOVED instead of DELETED
<desrt> i guess we have a testcase that expects non-NULL 'other' for MOVED events?
<Laney> indeed
<desrt> seems perfectly reasonable
<desrt> thanks!
<Laney> you want a bug?
<desrt> not the first small issue like this that has been found in that monster tower of switch statements
<desrt> please do
<Laney> okay
 * Laney goes to put shorts on first (H)
<Laney> apparently it's 19
<davmor2> Laney: no it's definitely the 11th not the 19th
 * Laney draws a willy on davmor2's back in mayonnaise and ties him out under the sun
<Laney> hush!
<davmor2> Laney: what sun it's cloudy here
<Laney> :( the west midlands :(
<davmor2> Laney: oh oh oh SUN admittedly between levels of cloud but SUN :)
<davmor2> ah gone again
 * Laney is going to eat lunch outside
<didrocks> enjoy Laney!
<Laney> didrocks: !!!
<Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2996944 is this true?
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, that's why I delayed my run for at least another hour :p
<didrocks> no cloud though from my window, just sun
<mitya57> desrt: Hi, what is the status of bug 1222053? I see it's linked to a blueprint â does that mean you are still going to implement it?
<ubot5> bug 1222053 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "per-session gsettings overrides" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222053
<desrt> mitya57: in theory it's on my TODO list :)
<mitya57> desrt: Good! Are you going to use Alberts' patch or do it in a different way?
<desrt> the patch i reviewed was insufficient for the reasons i mentioned in the review
<desrt> so it won't go...
<mitya57> Ok, thanks
<nessita> tseliot, hey, last week I reported issues with the ubuntu splash screen and the passphrase for unlocking the hard drive, still having the issue, this is the logs you requested from last Friday https://pastebin.canonical.com/131051/
<nessita> tseliot, this is from today https://pastebin.canonical.com/131121/. On boot, the splash screen looks "ugly" and the prompt for drive encryption password is not shown until I touch some key from the keyboard
<nessita> when I do that, and enter the correct passphrase, the splash screen gets stuck with a blinking cursor (it does not finish booting at all)
<Laney> Trevinho: gnome-session is (should be) fixed again in vivid-proposed btw
<Laney> just saw your comment
 * Laney copies that to wubbly walrus
 * qengho afk lunch with son.
<Trevinho> Laney: thanks
<Laney> Trevinho: can you close that other alt-f2 environment bug if it's fixed by this?
<Trevinho> Laney: we'd need to include in the gnome-session upstart script a way to export the XDG_MENU_PREFIX
<Trevinho> Laney: I need to check it
<Laney> ok, no idea what XDG_MENU_PREFIX is so I'll wait and see the patch ;)
<Trevinho> Laney: as far I've seen that's the only env variable that is not exported when running in upstart... It should be exported by gnome-session from my first google searches, but I need to check further
<Trevinho> mh, nope...
<Trevinho> oh, really it is... https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/scm-commits/2012-October/886745.html
<Laney> schroot -e --all-sessions
<Laney> <accidentally kills 20 minute old build>
<Laney> $"Â£($"(Â£&$"Â£(
<seb128> Laney, stop using the hammer ;-)
 * Laney so lazy
 * Laney wonders why restoring from trash in nautilus is broken on his desktop
<Laney> but not laptop
<Laney> the trashinfo file is right
 * qengho back
<mitya57> desrt: One more question: can you please reply something to Alberts' comments in gnome #746592?
<mitya57> (We need to make some decisions on what to do for this cycle in Flashback session, so we want to at least know what the plan is.)
<ubot5> Gnome bug 746592 in gsettings "Support for per-session overrides" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746592
<tseliot> nessita: sorry but I don't see anything suspicious in the logs
 * didrocks is listening at http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/meeting/22439/ubuntu-component-store/ and at each aquarius' comment, I'm basically "+1"
<nessita> tseliot, hey, thanks. How can we debug further? I can not login to the desktop from this installation
<nessita> tseliot, will a screencats help? the only option I have so far is booting on recovery mode, then trying to run failsafeX option, which does not work, hitting CTRL+C on the booting screen and waiting for X to restart enough times it will show the lightdm screen
<tseliot> nessita: last time you mentioned a bug report about plymouth, didn't you?
<tseliot> nessita: so my question is, does plymouth work correctly if you uninstall the nvidia driver ( with --purge remove)?
<Laney> laters!
 * Laney goes to enjoy the end of the sun
<nessita> tseliot, so the bug I mentioned on Friday was LP: #1359689
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1359689 in linux (Ubuntu Vivid) "cryptsetup password prompt not shown" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1359689
<nessita> tseliot, I can try cleaning up nvidida drivers and rebooting, will do so when I'm close to EOD (right now I have too much local setups to loose)
<nessita> tseliot, would you know by heart the package name I need to purge?
<tseliot> nessita: try with sudo apt-get --purge remove nvidia-340
<nessita> tseliot, ack, thanks!
<willcooke> g'night all
<willcooke> cheers robert_ancell
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-05-12
<pitti> Good morning
<larsu> good morning!
<didrocks> good morning
<GunnarHj> seb128: Good morning Sebastien!
<willcooke> o/
<Laney> ahoy there
<didrocks> morning willcooke, Laney
<Laney> what's up didrocks
<larsu> morning willcooke and Laney
<larsu> how's life?
<willcooke> morning all
<willcooke> It's raining \o/
<didrocks> Laney: planning for a run in ~20 minutes, getting up to 30Â° again today
<willcooke> oof
<Laney> didrocks: nice
<Laney> cloudy today, seems we got to have one day of sun
<Laney> hey larsu
<Laney> what's crackin'?
 * larsu is yelling at totem
<Laney> tooooooooottttteeeeeeeeeemmmmmmmmmmm
<Laney> menus?
<larsu> jhbuilt version doesn't play any videos
<larsu> which means I can't test on master :/
<Laney> :/
<Laney> have you got gst and all -plugins built in jhbuild?
<larsu> Can't play a text file without video or visualizations.
<larsu> Laney: ya -good, -bad, -ugly
<seb128> hey GunnarHj
<seb128> hey willcooke didrocks
<seb128> Laney,
<Laney> seb128,
<larsu> that's some weird comma use
 * seb128 back from passeport renewal
<seb128> larsu, that's xchat tab completion
<larsu> do you 'ave it?
<seb128> no
<seb128> I've my request in the system
<seb128> they don't- produce them live at the town hall
<Laney> sexy new photograph?
<seb128> new photograph indeed
<Laney> haha
<seb128> sexy not sure, you are not allow to smile :p
<seb128> allowed
<seb128> "look like you mean business, not having fun" ;-)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Have a minute for bug #1443178?
<ubot5> bug 1443178 in accountsservice (Ubuntu) "Accounts Service always relies on language fallback if never set by the user" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1443178
<seb128> GunnarHj, sure, though I don't understand the issue enough to have an opinion, as stated on the bug
<seb128> I think all those locale things are overcomplicated and I'm not sure to understand why that needs to be
<seb128> I dislike having something doing work/writing config during normal login if you don't change anything
<GunnarHj> seb128: The reason for it is a long story, and is to a large extent due to the design of language-selector, which provides a language priority list.
<didrocks> re seb128
<seb128> didrocks, re, didn't go for exercice yet? the ~20min are over ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: yeahâ¦ not yet
<GunnarHj> seb128: But saving about 400 bites of data will allow for a significant performance improvement in this case.
<GunnarHj> seb128: I do have the right to upload... Should I do so, and let's see if there is any reactions?
<seb128> GunnarHj, let me try to understand the issue, do you have a comment/post to summarize it?
<larsu> GunnarHj: why does a-s get the language when writing the volume?
<larsu> GunnarHj: also, why does i-sound write the volume on startup?
<GunnarHj> seb128: I added a couple of comments after your latest.
<GunnarHj> larsu: a-s fetch all stored user data at startup.
<larsu> GunnarHj: and it calculates the language then as well?
<GunnarHj> larsu: Yes, and the need to calculate is over and over is the problem.
<GunnarHj> s/is/it/
<larsu> GunnarHj: can't it cache the value?
<larsu> GunnarHj: is there an upstream bug as well?
<GunnarHj> larsu: That's my idea. :)
<GunnarHj> larsu: No upstream; this is an Ubuntu specific patch.
<GunnarHj> larsu: Or did you mean cache in memory?
<larsu> GunnarHj: in memory. Writing config on startup seems like a bad idea
<GunnarHj> larsu: Possibly. But then you have setups with hundreds of users. See e.g. bug #1350393.
<ubot5> bug 1350393 in accountsservice (Ubuntu) "Recent accountsservice update causes login window to hang" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1350393
<GunnarHj> larsu: It currently calculates the value for each user at each startup.
<larsu> GunnarHj: why?
<larsu> GunnarHj: got a meeting now, bbiab and can have a more detailed look
<GunnarHj> larsu: Ok. (There is a reason.)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Caching in memory, which larsu suggested, might be a better approach.
<seb128> GunnarHj, well, that wouldn't solve the slow start/login though?
<GunnarHj> seb128: No, it wouldn't.
<seb128> why is there computation needed?
<seb128> shouldn't the value comes from the environment?
<seb128> which is /etc/environment or the .pam_environment config?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Once the user value is saved, there is no need to do any computation. That's the reason for my suggestion. With the proposal, the language and formats data would actually be saved right at the creation of a new user.
<seb128> GunnarHj, what happens there if the user never changed his config/is using the system default and the system default change
<seb128> would the user config be updated as well?
<seb128> like if the sysadmin edit /etc/environment
<GunnarHj> seb128: No, then the user env would stay at the old value. Which I personally think is right.
<seb128> why is it?
<seb128> if the user never configured his account?
<seb128> like you are in a french school, the admin screwed the config, some users log in and tell him, if fixes it
<GunnarHj> seb128: Well, if you consider /etc/default/locale as the system default for new users only.
<seb128> then the users are stucked on the buggy value they never selected/wanted?
<seb128> I don't think so
<seb128> I consider the system config to be what the user gets, until he decides to set a value
<seb128> so if you never change the config you would keep getting the default
<GunnarHj> seb128: If you have a multiuser system where the users are find with the settings, and the admin decides to change the system default for future users... What's then? ;)
<seb128> well, they go configure/set it to what they like
<seb128> I dislike the idea to write a configuration for something users didn't configure
<seb128> that bit us back in the past several times
<seb128> it's confusing for users, an issue for update/migration, and often inefficient because it means work happen when the user doesn't ask for it
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok... Possibly caching in memory would be the solution after all. Then the value would only need to be calculated once per startup, not for each user.
<seb128> why is there something to "calculate"?
<seb128> the env is set through /etc/environment sourcing or pam_environment
<seb128> there should be no logic/maths to do
<GunnarHj> seb128: For instance since we need a valid language code, which may need to be derived from som locale name...
<larsu> GunnarHj: what's the reason?
<GunnarHj> larsu, seb128: The GUIs for setting language are working with lists of language codes, and current value needs to match.
<GunnarHj> larsu, seb128: But why don't you guys let me get back to the drawing board and fix some caching.
<larsu> GunnarHj: you said there's a reason that language is "calculated" for each user on on startup
<seb128> GunnarHj, sure, feel free to do that, I was just trying to understand the situation to help discussing the solution
<GunnarHj> seb128: Your questions and objections were valuabe. :)
<seb128> thanks :-)
<GunnarHj> larsu: No, if we cache, is would only need to be calculated once per startup, not for each user.
<larsu> cool
<GunnarHj> larsu: Thanks for the tip!
<larsu> welcome!
<willcooke> aeeiiiiiii
<willcooke> Machine just totally froze
<seb128> urg
<ogra_> probably a bug that leaked in from the new fridge
<willcooke> :D
<seb128> no ctrl-alt-fn working?
<willcooke> seb128, nothing
<willcooke> smells like hardware
<seb128> :-/
<willcooke> I dont want to have to buy a new laptop
<willcooke> Maybe I'll use that Dell
<seb128> why, the machine doesn't boot back?
<willcooke> Yeah, but it's done this a few times now
<willcooke> I think it will die soon
<seb128> urg
<willcooke> It's three years old, so it is due for replacement anyway
<seb128> it's a thinkpad? old one?
<seb128> k
<seb128> good luck with it
<willcooke> but some silly sausage wont be getting a laptop renewal for another 3 years ;)
<seb128> the inspiron is ok-ish if you don't need to build (at least if you have a decent hdd, that you have) though the screen is a bit small for daily work
<willcooke> internet suggests it could be a thermal issue, so I might take the back off and clean it out with compressed air
<larsu> put it in that fridge!
<willcooke> lol
<davmor2> willcooke: surely you only need a terminal and a chat client, so use your tablet  /me wonders off whistling nonchalantly
<Laney> big red manager pen
<willcooke> davmor2, spreadsheets & slide decks
<willcooke> :)
<davmor2> willcooke: okay a web browser too....man next he'll be saying email pfff
<willcooke> ha
<mitya57> pitti: Hi, do you know what can cause this warning from gnome-session on startup?
<mitya57> gnome-session[11149]: WARNING: Could not get session id for session. Check that logind is properly installed and pam_systemd is getting used at login.
<mitya57> See in bug 1450279 (remote Trusty desktop)
<ubot5> bug 1450279 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) "gnome flashback session fails to end on logout in Trusty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1450279
<mitya57> According to gnome-session source, it tries to call sd_pid_get_session(), and prints this warning when it returns non-zero value
<mitya57> But I don't know what that function is doing.
<pitti> mitya57: does your session have $XDG_SESSION_ID? (usually "c2" or so)
<mitya57> I can ask the reporter about that.
<mitya57> muktupavels: ^
<mitya57> pitti: Yes, it is set to c3 (c4, c5, ...)
<Laney> seb128: does "system-settings language" work for you in vivid/wily?
<Laney> desktop
<Laney> ah, that's u-s-s from trunk, maybe
<seb128> Laney, wfm in wily desktop i386, what's the issue for you?
<Laney> seb128: Seems trunk depends on a newer version of maliit's gschema than ubuntu has
<Laney> & no versioned dep
<seb128> kenvandine, keeeennnnn
<Laney> no big deal, I filed a bug
<seb128> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~system-settings-touch/ubuntu-system-settings/trunk/revision/1396
<seb128> that shouldn't happen
<Laney> thought it was in ubuntu first which would be bad but it's not
<seb128> right, still it means we can't land trunk in wily
<Laney> ya
<seb128> or worst, we could without noticing the issue because the depends is wrong
<seb128> I pinged people about that on -touch
<Laney> thanks
<kenvandine> seb128, ??
<seb128> kenvandine, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~system-settings-touch/ubuntu-system-settings/trunk/revision/1396
<kenvandine> missing depends?
<seb128> kenvandine, that depends on a new ubuntu-keyboard gsettings key but doesn't add the corresponding depends
<seb128> kenvandine, or that version newer landed in Ubuntu proper
<seb128> so it makes u-s-s trunk sigabrt on vivid/wily
<kenvandine> it landed at the same time
<seb128> in some overlay ppa I guess
<kenvandine> neither in vivid
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> the overlay ppa
<seb128> right
<kenvandine> should have had the depends
<seb128> which makes trunk not run on vivid/wily
<kenvandine> aren't we going to sync from the overlay ppa not vivid?
<kenvandine> i thought that was the plan
<kenvandine> still we should have had the depends
<kenvandine> seb128, had did that land in wily?  it should have never been in vivid
<seb128> kenvandine, what is "that"?
<seb128> kenvandine, usecase is some of us trying to hack on settings on our wily desktop
<seb128> we don't have the overlay ppa there
<kenvandine> oh i see :)
<kenvandine> i thought settings with this had made it to wily
<seb128> no, it's in trunk though
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> which blocks us to do any wily landing though
<kenvandine> trunk matches the overlay ppa, not wily or vivid
<kenvandine> which i know sucks
<kenvandine> seb128, do you know when those packages will be synced to wily?
<seb128> no idea
<Laney> JFDI
<seb128> are they going to be automatically?
 * Laney shoots from the hip
<Laney> pow pow pow
<seb128> I think people just need to request a landing
<kenvandine> it was the plan
<kenvandine> to sync those from the ppa instead of vivid
<kenvandine> at least that's what i heard somewhere :)
<kenvandine> sure we can do it manually
<kenvandine> but i think there was a plan to sync all the packages
<kenvandine> like we would for vivid
<Laney> Don't think people care much about wily atm
<Laney> copy-package --from=~ci-train-ppa-service/ubuntu/stable-phone-overlay --to=ubuntu --from-suite=vivid --to-suite=wily-proposed -b ubuntu-keyboard
<nessita> tseliot, hello again! So, I purged all nvidia related packages in my vivid installation, and rebooted. After 2 reboots (first ended up in a black screen), I got the nice splash screen. I entered the crypt passphrase, and the splash screen hanged for about 40 seconds, I went to the text terminal 1 (ALT + F1), then to the 2 text terminal. Screen was black with a blinking cursor, which dissapeared and re-appeared about 5 times, similar to an X resta
<GunnarHj> seb128: still there?
<seb128> GunnarHj, yes, I saw your upload, good work, thanks :-)
<GunnarHj> seb128: It ended up to a very small adjustment, but important, I think.
<seb128> yeah, from the description that makes sense to me
<GunnarHj> seb128: To make it land in the phone, should it be backported to vivid?
<seb128> GunnarHj, yeah, maybe a SRU would work
<seb128> not sure if they use those
<seb128> kenvandine, ^ do you know?
<kenvandine> just propose a branch to trunk
<kenvandine> it'll land in the overlay ppa
<kenvandine> not SRU
<seb128> kenvandine, we are speaking about accountsservices and the fix has been uploaded to wily
<kenvandine> oh, i was thinking settings :)
<kenvandine> to get it on the phone we need to land it in the overlay ppa
<kenvandine> or i guess an SRU
<kenvandine> either would work
<seb128> k, I was unsure if SRU was enough
<seb128> thanks
<GunnarHj> seb128, kenvandine: Then I'm going for an SRU. (Also to trusty - for other reasons.)
<seb128> GunnarHj, sounds good
<Laney> I accidentally wrote my weekly status a whole hour early
<Laney> this situation cannot stand
<qengho> Tragedy.
 * Laney deletes it in order to experience the traditional last minute rush
<seb128> or let's just do the meeting now!
 * didrocks won't be there for the meeting (but I sent that summary to will)
<didrocks> if we do it now, I can copy it though!
<seb128> didrocks, have fun :-)
 * seb128 needs to go not to late as well but should be able to stay for the meeting if it's smooth
<seb128> too
<seb128> going to see some classical music tonight
<didrocks> oh, which author?
<seb128> didrocks, http://www.arsenal-metz.fr/fr/musique/surchauffe_d.html
<seb128> I don't think he's known
<didrocks> no, should be quite recent
<seb128> but we have tickets and the music hall is supposed to be a nicely made one, and they are showing a new instrument they designed
<seb128> so let's see how that is :-)
<didrocks> nice ;)
<ScriptMonkey00> Are you guys here to describe ubuntu Desktop (as in environments) or desktop as in desktop vs laptop? :)  Sorry if that's a dumb question, but it would rule out a bunch of other even dumber ones :)
<ScriptMonkey00> discuss I mean, not describe :)
<willcooke> ScriptMonkey00, not sure I follow you exactly, but... this channel is mainly used by people who develop various desktop environments in/on Ubuntu
<willcooke> so technical discussions about the environment and all its components
<willcooke> Generally it's not a "how do I do XYZ with Ubuntu" channel
<qengho> ScriptMonkey00: if it's an idea or problem that involves changing an existing project, this is the place. We try not to create many "upstream" projects here.
<ScriptMonkey00> That's actually fine.. I was looking to ask someone knowledgeable about where I could go to research system requirements for different desktops. I'm getting a chromebook and putting Ubuntu on it.. but I'm reading that some can run fine while others get laggy or slow...
<ScriptMonkey00> some environments I mean
<ScriptMonkey00> does that question make sense? (I'm most experienced as a CLI user, this is my first serious forray into an environment like this)
 * didrocks waevs good evening and good night
<davmor2> ScriptMonkey00: you are best off asking that type of questing in #ubuntu or on askubuntu.com
<qengho> ScriptMonkey00: You want #ubuntu.
<desrt> didrocks: bye bye...
<didrocks> desrt: enjoy the meeting for me, I'll scrollback tomorrow ;)
<davmor2> ScriptMonkey00: this is where they make the desktop, #ubuntu is where they use it and can answer general questions like that better than us
<ScriptMonkey00> sorry about that then, guys :)
<ScriptMonkey00> thanks for being nice about me in the wrong place :)
* qengho changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316"
* qengho changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316"
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 12 15:30:13 2015 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic:
<seb128> hey
<willcooke> Roll call:  seb128,  attente, desrt,  dgadomski, didrocks, fjkong, happyaron, laney, larsu, qengho, sweet5hark, tkamppeter, themuso (out), robert_ancell (out)
<larsu> \o
<desrt> o/
<dgadomski> hey
<Sweet5hark> heya
<willcooke> Let's get this show on the road....
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ 4 days week (friday was 8th of may = holiday in France)
<seb128> â¢ UOS took most of tue-wed-thu
<seb128> â¢ upgraded my laptop to wily, started working some on Debian syncs/merges
<seb128> â¢ launchpad bugs/e.u.c triaging
<seb128> â¢ looked a some non-translated-string issues on current touch image
<seb128> â¢ updated "versions" script to use wily, cleaned out some deprecated components
<seb128> â¢ reviewed some easy u-s-s changes, looked to design updates
<seb128> â¢ sponsoring (chromium, session-migration, reviewed some items in the queue)
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> Thx seb128
<seb128> (thanks for letting me go first, need to go a bit before 4utc)
<willcooke> Have a good evening :)
<seb128> thanks!
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic: attente
<attente> started working on the apparmor changes needed for gsettings confinement
<desrt> attente: thanks for that ;)
<attente> minor fixes to gdk-mir backend
<attente> that's it from me :)
<willcooke> thx attente
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> typical round of glib bugs and reviewing, and continuing work on the dconf confinement stuff
<desrt> eof
<willcooke> coolio
<willcooke> thx desrt
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> unfortunately, not much in the desktop area lately. Currently I am investigating bug #1124250 - there is a regression while using trusty kernel with precise.
<ubot5> bug 1124250 in linux (Ubuntu Utopic) "Partially incorrect uid mapping with nfs4/idmapd/ldap-auth" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1124250
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> Good luck dgadomski, let me know if you need a hand with anything
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic: didrocks
<willcooke> buntu Make:
<willcooke> - released 0.8 with a new contributor fixing an issue due to Android Studio 1.2! In this release, we have the advanced deprecated frameworks removal and non interactive installation + more tests.
<willcooke> - got back tests running in CI infra
<willcooke> - reviewed Tinche's arduino support pull request. Still in progress.
<willcooke> UOS/developer relations:
<willcooke> - watched quite a lot touch developer's sessions (still some to get at)
<willcooke> - Planning developer relations work needed.
<willcooke> Short week (4 days)
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic: FJKong
<willcooke> timeout: 1m
<FJKong> 1 prepare PPT and give a talk of opensource last Sunday for students, mainly about ubuntu kylin and fcitx-qimpanel
<FJKong> 2 analyze fine name contain Chinese Character, need to build a list for searching.
<FJKong> 3 testing dash search, fix bugs
<FJKong> eof
<willcooke> thx FJKong!
<willcooke> Didn't think you'd be here :)
<willcooke> Get to bed
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic: happyaron
 * willcooke wonders if happyaron has recovered from the jetlag yet?
<willcooke> timeout: 1m
<qengho> Synchronous IO sucks.
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic: Laney
<larsu> qengho: async irc does as well :P
<Laney> â¢ Short week due to election fever
<Laney> â¢ Finish uploading oneconf for testfixes
<Laney> â¢ Upload empathy & account-plugins to t-proposed for messenger removal
<Laney> â¢ Sync glib & -networking to wily from exp
<Laney> â¢ Update rhythmbox to 3.2.1 in Debian & merge to wily
<Laney> â¢ Code reviews for libtimezonemap, release 0.4.4
<Laney> â¢ Copy some SRUs from vivid-proposed to wily-proposed
<Laney> â¢ Quick look at a totem menu bug - ask larsu to take over (thanks!)
<Laney> â¢ Look at tracker autopkgtest failure due to new glib upload - required a fix in glib and some tweaks to the dep8 script, now fwded upstream
<Laney> â¢ Start to look at a trash bug in gvfs/nautilus - in nautilus, trash a file and then immediately try to restore it, errors out
<Laney> â
<willcooke> thx Laney
<willcooke> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic: larsu
<larsu> - uos
<larsu> - fix time panel geoname fetching issue (and did some bug triage and testing)
<larsu> - started work on fixing menu issues in totem and upstreaming our traditional menu patch
<larsu> - a bit more than usual reviews and discussions
<larsu> - continued testing of gtk 3.16
<larsu> </larsu>
<willcooke> thx larsu
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> * Added Chromium support for libva1. Made "widevine" plugin at least work if it's copied from other sources.
<qengho> * Found problem with flash update support. Fixed.
<qengho> * Updated Cr in wily, thanks seb. Stable-ubuntu updates landing soon.
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> thx qengho
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> slow week:
<Sweet5hark> - some UOS
<Sweet5hark> - booked travel and accomodation for Cambridge Hackfest
<Sweet5hark> - discussed bug 1418551 some more upstream: testing a very ugly minimal hack to prevent the crash. not a good long term solution, but should be good for a vivid/4.4 SRU (testing in ppa now)
<Sweet5hark> - still hunting down the memory management madness upstream to push those fixes (will likely push them after branch off for the next major though)
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<ubot5> bug 1418551 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "soffice.bin crashed with SIGSEGV in Application::GetSolarMutex()" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1418551
<willcooke> thx Sweet5hark
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Let auto-generated PPD-less print queues for IPP network printers also accept PWG Raster as input
<tkamppeter> - cups/cups-filters: Run PWG self certification tests for IPP Everywhere printers on CUPS queues: Printing required data formats works very well, but there are many issues in Bonjour and IPP answers by CUPS. Reported to CUPS upstream.
<tkamppeter> - Tested ippusbxd on my HP printers due to HP-reported problem of ippusbxd hanging on some printers.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> thx tkamppeter
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Implemented filter result control accessibility in the unity 7 dash, working with the unity 7 team to get it ready for merging into unity 7.
<willcooke> * Worked in Debian VCS to update ALSA userspace to 1.0.29. This should land in Wily before too long.
<willcooke> * Started prepping updates to the a11y stack for wily.
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - Test case for XMir failing with standard libepoxy
<willcooke> - Understanding XMir
<willcooke> - Investigating git branch for XMir
<willcooke> #topic willcooke
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-05-12 | Current topic: willcooke
<willcooke> UOS
<willcooke> Pre for sales eng. training
<willcooke> EOF
<willcooke> #endmeeting
 * faenil gets notifications for every topic change :(
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316"
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 12 15:39:31 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2015/ubuntu-desktop.2015-05-12-15.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> THAT
<willcooke> WAS
<willcooke> AWESOME
<seb128> lol
 * larsu has a feeling willcooke liked it. notsurethough
<seb128> we should still have a "other topics & question" imho
<seb128> but otherwise +1
<seb128> feel better to not keep waiting in the middle
<willcooke> good plan
<desrt> we could try the async-in-parallel approach
<willcooke> oki, let's do a Any Other Business now...
<desrt> ask everyone at the same time
<willcooke> anyone got anything?
<desrt> and let everyone flood back together :)
 * seb128 doesn't
<larsu> so... lots of timezone panel problems apparently
<desrt> larsu: search+gvfs+soap issues still?
<seb128> yeah, not specific to the panel
<larsu> I think we should make this whole situation a bit better...
<seb128> inconsistent experience/stack used in different codebases as well
<larsu> desrt: no, I fixed that by porting to libsoup
<seb128> yeah, +1
<larsu> desrt: the actual culprit was a missing unref on the stream, leaving the connection open :/
<willcooke> so is a cache the way to go?
<larsu> willcooke: yes, like we have on the phone
<willcooke> ah, cool
<larsu> willcooke: we already ship a cache...
<larsu> in /usr/share/libtimezonemap/ui/cities15000.txt
<larsu> which is almost 5mb :/
<willcooke> woah, yes - lots of data there
 * seb128 needs to go but is going to read the backlog and comment tomorrow if the topic is not settled by then :-)
<willcooke> cya seb128
<seb128> see you tomorrow!
<larsu> I think having a couple of major cities for every time zone locally is enough
<willcooke> and then get rid of the cities15000 file?
<larsu> something like that
<larsu> I wonder if people will be ok with that though
<willcooke> hrm
<larsu> depends on what else is using libtimezonemap
<willcooke> I mean, if it's already there, can't we just use it?
<larsu> like, the phone's settings for example
<larsu> willcooke: we can, but I think it's quite wasteful
<willcooke> If it's already in use on the phone then I think it would be better to use that than to implement a "new" thing
<larsu> ya of course
<larsu> the idea is to make the file smaller (but keep the same lib)
<Laney> You can fix this bug without changing the file
<larsu> and fix a couple of bugs in the process
<Laney> the discussions don't have to be coupled
<willcooke> add gzip support to the library?
<larsu> Laney: indeed
<willcooke> so would a first step be to get the panel to use that lib?
<Laney> it already does
<larsu> it already does, but not the local-file part
<Laney> the change is to get the widget to use the offline cache
<larsu> for reasons I don't know yet
<larsu> tedg might know
<willcooke> ahh
<willcooke> I get it
<larsu> willcooke: sorry if I was unclear - we've been talking about this all day :)
 * larsu doesn't know what has been said yet
 * willcooke shuts the hell up
<larsu> haha don't!
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> riiight - so shipping the 5MB file on the phone is a bad idea, right?  That was your point I expect
<larsu> ya
<willcooke> gotya
<willcooke> seems to be quite a lot of duplicate cities in that list with slight lat/lng differences
<willcooke> I'll try and de-dupe it and see what it looks like afterwards
<Laney> no
<willcooke> just based on city name
<Laney> it comes straight from geonames.org
<willcooke> ahh
<Laney> A fix, if there is one to be had, would be to use one of the smaller ones probably
<Laney> Or let the user load a different one, or something
<Laney> It's a worthwhile discussion but I'd rather avoid coupling it with the more important fix to have the panel use this offline database
<willcooke> sounds good
<willcooke> carry on
<willcooke> ;p
<tseliot> nessita: ok, that was just to confirm that the problem had nothing to do with the graphics driver, since both the textual and the graphics splash fail
 * Laney screams/weeps
<Laney> why can't ubuntu have locales-all?
<nessita> tseliot, right. Any other workaround or debug info I can try/get?
<tseliot> nessita: you might want to ask cyphermox, since the bug report is assigned to him
 * Laney sobs with joy at finally beating tracker's testsuite
 * willcooke -> EOD
 * Laney tries it on ubuntu (as opposed to debian)
<nessita> cyphermox, hello, you around? I'm having issues when starting up my ubuntu vivid installation, the splash screen gets stuck for a long period of time, and the login screen seems to "restart" several times before is actually shown. Output of systemd-analyze critical-chain shows https://pastebin.canonical.com/131238/
<cyphermox> nessita: that doesn't mention anything wrong
<Laney> phew, uploaded --- hopefully this works
<Laney> bye chaps!
<cyphermox> nessita: that is for the splash screen before the installer starts?
<nessita> cyphermox, nopes, this is the splash screen on normal boot
<nessita> the splash screen hangs for around 40 seconds
<nessita> this is an SSD drive, so booting on 40 seconds is crazy
<cyphermox> And it doesn't say anything on the splash screen? Maybe try to boot with verbose to see what's happening at the time
<nessita> cyphermox, any instructions to boot with verbose? editing the boot line and ...?
<cyphermox> You just remove quiet splash and replace that with verbose
<nessita> kk
<nessita> will try that
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-05-13
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey willcooke
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<larsu> morning!
<seb128> hey desktopers ;-)
<willcooke> happyaron, please take a look at:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/1048161
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1048161 in ibus (Ubuntu) "ibus-daemon crashed with SIGABRT in g_assertion_message()" [High,Confirmed]
<willcooke> happyaron, it's been hanging around for a long time and is #1 ibus issue
<Laney> hallo!
<seb128> happyaron, willcooke, #1 e.u.c vivid issue, and not only ibus
<seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
<larsu> morning Laney!
<Laney> just had breakfast outside
<Laney> climbed yesterday
<larsu> nice!
<Laney> it is going GREAT
<didrocks> morning Laney
<Laney> how about you didrocks et larsu et seb128 et willcooke?
<willcooke> the sun is shining
<seb128> doing good, still summer like today
<willcooke> it feels like summer is coming :)
<seb128> the classical music yesterday was bit experimental/weird
<seb128> was fun but a bit long
<Laney> oh yeah
<Laney> this unknown guy?
<czajkowski> willcooke: time to start working from the garden!
<willcooke> czajkowski, :D
<willcooke> I really need a better place to sit outside
<willcooke> with a bit of shade so I can see the screen
<willcooke> and a table which isn't half collapsed
<czajkowski> wifi access points are being fitted next weekend and outdoor sockets so can easily work then !
<czajkowski> willcooke: shame you dont live closer you could join popey at our co working day once a month
 * didrocks has a balcooney for this
<Laney> \o/
<czajkowski> didrocks: git
<seb128> Laney, yeah, that was a creation from the university here, demoing a new intrusment they designed as well
<seb128> it was interesting but a bit long
<Laney> didrocks: hey, do you know about the fsckd autopkgtest failing? (sorry)
<Laney> It can't find /etc/default/grub.d/90-autopkgtest.cfg --- some problem with the host? (it only fails on amd64)
<pitti> Laney: fixed yesterday in git
<Laney> which git?
<pitti> amd64 runs on the cloud now, and these images don't use the adt-setup-vm script
<pitti> Laney: the systemd autopkgtest
<Laney> ah
<pitti> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-systemd/systemd.git/commit/?h=experimental&id=0931f09a80
<Laney> are you going to upload it?
 * Laney is trying to smooth glib2.0 in
<Laney> qengho: chromium-browser's test is failing too
<pitti> Laney: ah, I can ignore the systemd failure for now, if that helps
<pitti> Laney: yes, I can upload it too
<Laney> I could do that too, having it really pass seems better
<Laney> will wait for Chad to at least eyeball chromium first anyway
<Laney> so no big rush
<didrocks> at least, that forced pitti to use fileinput.input() ;)
<pitti> chromium seems to be an actual regression
<pitti> in the newer version in -proposed
<pitti> I suppose it's not glib's fault (but in theory it could be, hence britnye holding it back for human inspection is right IMHO)
<pitti> didrocks: indeed, that's a handy trick!
<Laney> I usually try to get things in by making the tests pass even if it isn't that upload's fault
<Laney> will skip as a fallback though
<pitti> Laney: right, me too, I just didn't get to uploading it yet
<pitti> last/this week is a bit crasy
<pitti> crazy, too
<pitti> three security vulns in my stuff in one week, after years of silence :)
<Laney> oh, I only saw the dbusmock thing
<Laney> there was more?
<pitti> yeah, still private
<pitti> I can't talk, or Marc will have to -- argh! argh! *nnng* *dump*
<Laney> sorry for adding to your stress then :)
<pitti> no worries :)
<pitti> the switch to nova came as a surprise to me
<didrocks> seems pitti watched too much house of cards
<didrocks> </spoiler>
<pitti> I've waited for this for a long time, but they didn't wait until we fixed all the known test regressions
<pitti> didrocks: no spoiler for me, unless you already know the 4th season :)
<didrocks> pitti: no, this spoiler part is almost a no one as it's in the first season :p
<pitti> didrocks: well, people die in 2nd too :)
<didrocks> oh yeah, the one I was thinking about was in the 2nd actually
<Laney> larsu: could you sanity check a reproducer for me please?
<Laney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11112014/
<Laney> It's meant to tell you if the bug is reproduced or not, but I never get the callback called after my g_file_trash
<Laney> so my reproducer doesn't work ...
<Laney> actually it seems like it may have broken with glib 2.45
<larsu> Laney: (just back from lunch) sure
<larsu> Laney: just hangs for me
<Laney> ya
<larsu> did I reproduce?
<larsu> should I try a different glib?
<Laney> well, can you see a bug in the code?
<Laney> it should print one or other of the messages instead of hanging
<Laney> if you go and trash a file in nautilus it'll notice that btw
<larsu> it unrefs the file and then uses it again
<Laney> just doesn't see its own one (but this works with 2.44)
<larsu> oh wait
<larsu> I can't read
<larsu> Laney: desrt changed file monitoring right? Maybe it broke the trash:// case?
<larsu> code looks good to me otherwise
<Laney> yeah maybe
<Laney> it's just a bug on top of a bug which is annoying
<larsu> indeed
<larsu> I'm testing it with .44
<Laney> cool
<Laney> I had to restart my session with the new glib to get it to work propertly (probably gvfs)
<larsu> Laney: trash:///test-file.6 trashed from /home/lars/src/bugs/laney-trash/test-file - bug not reproduced :D
<larsu> on 2.44
<Laney> ya
<larsu> any other test I could do?
<larsu> (me is leaving for the afternoon in a bit and will be back tonight)
<Laney> no, that's fine, thanks
<Laney> guess I get to file two bugs
<larsu> yay?!
<Laney> yay!
<pitti> Laney: uploaded systemd at last, which will hopefully fix the failure on amd64
<Laney> thanks pitti!
 * Laney sends extra sunshine towards Germany
<ogra_> oh, that is where it comes from ?
 * ogra_ hugs Laney 
<pitti> Laney: even more? thanks :)
<pitti> we've had wonderful spring/summer weather since the weekend
<nessita> pitti, hey, how are you? I was wondering if you would know if the switch to systemd could make my system boot super super super slow. Today it took "Startup finished in 7.874s (kernel) + 3min 6.652s (userspace) = 3min 14.526s"
<pitti> hey nessita
<pitti> nessita: it could happen, of course; is it fast if you boot with upstart?
<pitti> nessita: what are the topmost entries in systemd-analyze blame?
<pitti> that sounds like 6 s regular boot, plus two timeouts
<nessita>           5.862s systemd-cryptsetup@sdb3_crypt.service
<nessita>           5.420s NetworkManager-wait-online.service
<nessita>            627ms plymouth-quit-wait.service
<pitti> ok, nothing surprising there
<pitti> nessita: can you pastebin "journalctl -b"?
<nessita> pitti, haven't tried upstart, let me do that right now. One other symptom is that I need to boot around 3 times, the first two after the grub selection the video signal turns off == blank screen and monitor blinks its power light
<nessita> getting output for journalctl
<pitti> nessita: also, did you try to boot without quiet and splash?
<nessita> pitti, I did, specially when I edit the boot line the video signal is "lost"
<pitti> nessita: uh, switching off the display? that sounds like a graphics driver or plymouth issue, but let's see
<pitti> nessita: it's also worth a try to boot with utopic's kernel (assuming that utopic still worked)
<nessita> pitti, so about video: I have a nvidia card and was using the nvidia drivers, but I purged them to try to see if those were related to the issues (I don't think they are)
<Laney> larsu: ah, it works if I use a timeout instead of idle
<nessita> pitti, journalctl -b -> https://pastebin.canonical.com/131297/
<Laney> I guess my operation is getting in there before the monitor
 * Laney tries enforcing the right order
<pitti> Job dev-disk-by\x2duuid-c65eebf4\x2d2f76\x2d497a\x2d86d6\x2d0d65ca46c0d5.device/start t
<pitti> nessita: ^ it's cropped at the end, but quite clear
<pitti> Timed out waiting for device dev-disk-by\x2duuid-c65eebf4\x2d2f76\x2d497a\x2d86d6\x2d0d
<pitti> nessita: could be bug 1447282 or bug 1447282, but both should be fixed in vivid-updates
<ubot5> bug 1447282 in ecryptfs-utils "Does not use encrypted swap when using GPT partitioning + encrypted home directory (ecryptfs)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1447282
<pitti> nessita: anyway, I need: /etc/fstab, /etc/crypttab, and the output of "sudo blkid"
<Laney> no, stupid, the monitor should be added before the loop runs
<nessita> pitti, on it
<nessita> pitti, https://pastebin.canonical.com/131298/
<nessita> I'm up to date with vivid, no new packages or updates to install
<pitti> nessita: ah, there we go:
<pitti> sdb4_crypt UUID=c65eebf4-2f76-497a-86d6-0d65ca46c0d5 none luks,swap,discard
<pitti> ^ in /etc/crypttab
<pitti> this UUID doesn't exist
<pitti> and corresponding entry in fstab (/dev/mapper/sdb4_crypt)
<pitti> nessita: ^ so this is indeed a variant of bug 953875, but one which the automatic postinst didn't cover as there were some modifications
<ubot5> bug 953875 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Vivid) "Encrypted swap no longer mounted at bootup" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/953875
<pitti> nessita: comment out the broken swap from crypttab and fstab, then it should work
<pitti> nessita: that of course is unrelated to the video driver issue, but let's see how far you get with this
<pitti> nessita: this got broken somewhere in precise or so, and under upstart we never noticed that we had broken swap partitions; so you've ran without swap for some years, I guess you don't miss it :)
<pitti> nessita: if you want it back, you can also fix it manually (see the bug description above), but I guess you shouldn't care -- swap is just so outdated
<nessita> pitti, interesting. I did not miss it, as you correctly guessed. Is worth noticing that when I installed from installer the last time (I think it was utopic), I remember the partioning step was problematic, I was not allowed to create an encrypted partition for /mnt if the swap wasn't encrypted, so I just disabled the swap via swapoff
<nessita> it was like an chicken-egg situation with unecrypted swap and trying to create an ecrypted partition
<nessita> pitti, thanks much!
<pitti> nessita: you're welcome!
<qengho> pitti: is there a way to get Jenkins RSS feed for all tests from one source package? My alerts weren't triggered because I forgot to add wily to my feed list. I'm going to forget again one day.
<nessita> pitti, this swap issue causes the long boot time, right? is it also causing the display being turned off? or to fix that I should go back to the nvidia drivers?
<pitti> qengho: sorry, we don't currently have RSS for autopkgtest results; the last uploader gets notified by email
<pitti> nessita: it should cure the long boot time, yes; as I said, that's unrelated to video driver issues
<pitti> nessita: I don't know how well nouveau works these days, or particularly for you; if it does, so much the better
<pitti> but I figure the nvidia driver ought to work, a lot of people use it
<nessita> pitti, k, thanks!
<qengho> pitti: Eh? On jenkins on result pages is "RSS for failures" but it's specific to this exact test.
<pitti> qengho: ah, via jenkins? ok, I didn't try that :)
<nessita> pitti, super success! "Startup finished in 7.887s (kernel) + 11.290s (userspace) = 19.177s". Bad news is display was turned off on the first attempt. Will re-install nvidia drivers now and retry
<pitti> \o/
<desrt> larsu: i changed local file monitoring... trash monitoring happens via gvfs
<desrt> although it could be that the file monitoring broke for trash too
<desrt> since the backend, itself, uses local file monitors :)
<excalibr> Has the method to get the session idle time through dbus changed in the recent Ubuntu or my dbus code in this paste link is wrong?
<excalibr> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=MMYxPRQQ
<happyaron> willcooke seb128 will do that first right away
<happyaron> tried once but failed to get a solution
<seb128> happyaron, hey, thanks
<seb128> if you need help please let us know
<seb128> is that the one you mentioning maybe being a glib issue?
<seb128> we have people knowing about glib that can reply to questions here ;-)
<happyaron> I'm not sure whether it's glib or improper use of glib
<happyaron> great
<seb128> likely improper use ;-)
<willcooke> sorry happyaron was otp - thanks!
<happyaron> still not that very well with jet lag, and missed a meeting today...
<willcooke> happyaron, I think it will take at least 3 weeks to get back to normal
<happyaron> :)
 * willcooke -> appointment.
<willcooke> bbl
<seb128> ok, I'm calling it a day, have a nice evening everyone
<Laney> see you seb128!
<seb128> see you tomorrow for those who are there, or next week otherwise
<seb128> tomorrow is a vac and I've friday off, but I took some hours off work during the week and I'm going to be a bit around tomorrow to work on some things I wanted to get done this week
<Laney> what's the occasion tomorrow?
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-05-14
<willcooke> morning all
<Laney> hey hey
<Laney> going to be quiet today I think
<Laney> those euroslackers!
<Laney> qengho: hey, did you get a chance to look at the chromium autopkgtest yesterday?
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney ... not an holiday in the u.k today?
<Laney> nope!
<Laney> we don't really do the mid-week holiday thing
<Laney> I think there is one for us on the 25th
<davmor2> seb128: Mondays we worship banks from time to time
<willcooke> :)
<czajkowski> chrisccoulson: do you still look after FF oddness ?
<czajkowski> http://pix.ie/czajkowski/3761313/size/1024  latest update of FF 38 on 15.04 is massive text
<Laney> should we SRU new gtk2 releases to trusty?
<Laney> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/NEWS?h=gtk-2-24
<seb128> Laney, I think it would be good if we could
<seb128> looking to the NEWS it doesn't seem too many changes, but also not too many important user visible issues
<seb128> like I don't think those segfault are frequently reported issues
<seb128> still would be good to update if we can
<Laney> some crashes but probably not that high impact
<Laney> I guess it would be easy to do anyway
<willcooke> oki
<willcooke> now all the Sales Engineers should be able to install xmir and x apps
<willcooke> I've just done a training session for them
<willcooke> but it seems the 000 silo is a bit broken and doesnt do convergence mode at the moment
<chrisccoulson> czajkowski, I don't really do anything with firefox anymore (other than upload new versions)
<czajkowski> chrisccoulson: ah ok, well new version seems to think I'm blind as a bat and needs ultra zooom in  :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: yes but only you
<davmor2> :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: I have words for you!
<davmor2> czajkowski: is the second off?
<davmor2> czajkowski: seriously though I can take screenshots the text in my FF is exactly the same size for me as in chromium
<czajkowski> weird
<davmor2> czajkowski: http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2721899 and http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2721881 this was an issue in 22 but might have the same effect for you
<czajkowski> ahhh lovely will give that a go at lunch time
<czajkowski> thanks
<Laney> attente: meow
<Laney> attente: would it be possible to have a 'does gtk-mir' work kind of autopkgtest?
<Laney> can we run a server in a headless way like xvfb or something?
<Laney> I was just thinking about doing this 'can it build?' one - seems like a 'does it work?' one would be good too?
<attente> Laney: meow, no idea if it's possible to run it headless
<Laney> blub
<qengho> Laney: I did. I saw no reason for the cause, and my local test runs didn't fail. Will look more today.
<davmor2> czajkowski: did it help?
<czajkowski> davmor2: whoo it worked sorry just going on lunch now mad morning
<czajkowski> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/962990  followed that and reset it to 1.0 instead of the -1.0
<Laney> qengho: okay, thanks. It's keeping stuff (including chromium itself) in proposed.
<qengho> Thanks.
<willcooke> g'night
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-05-15
<robert_ancell> desrt, I'm looking at https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=747209 which is now triggered for simple-scan since translatable support for appdata was added (INTLTOOL_XML_NOMERGE_RULE -> INTLTOOL_XML_RULE). What should be done here?
<ubot5> Gnome bug 747209 in gsettings "glib-compile-schemas ought to reject repeated <summary> and <description>" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<robert_ancell> AFAIK appdata only supports merged translations and autotools/intltool isn't smart enough to merge one and not the other
<desrt> interesting
<desrt> with intltool you could give the type explicitly, but i guess autotools gettext support doesn't grok that
<desrt> to be honest, i don't have a good solution for you other than "stop using autotools gettext" or "get the bug fixed with them"
<didrocks> good morning
<willcooke> Good morning all
<TheMuso> Hey willcooke.
<willcooke> TheMuso, just making tea.  Be with you in 2 mins
<TheMuso> Ok.
<didrocks> good morning willcooke
 * didrocks felt alone :p
 * willcooke sings ..oo( Lonely.  So lonely)
<didrocks> or "I'm poor, lonesome cowboyâ¦"
<Laney> hullo
<willcooke> it was pretty quiet yesterday
<willcooke> morning Laney
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> what up
<Laney> good day off didrocks?
<didrocks> Laney: was nice, walked quite a lot as usual, was quite hot still, but today, temperatures really went done (by 10 degrees)
<didrocks> how was you non day off? :)
<Laney> annoying
<Laney> we have some people fitting new windows
<Laney> which is quite noisy
<didrocks> you didn't go outside or in a cafe to work?
<Laney> didn't want to leave them alone here ...
<happyaron> broke the screen of my phone, :-/
<didrocks> happyaron: :(
 * TheMuso -> EOD, have a good weekend folks.
<didrocks> see you TheMuso
<willcooke> cheers TheMuso
<willcooke> happyaron, I replaced my screen on my iphone.  It was quite easy
<Laney> I destroyed a phone by trying to replace the screen :P
<Laney> happyaron: your ubuntu phone?
<happyaron> willcooke: yep I'll do that tomorrow
<happyaron> Laney: no, iPhone, I've no Ubuntu phone atm...
<Laney> oh I thought you got one
<Laney> or was that fj?
<willcooke> FJKong got one
<happyaron> yes he got one
<Laney> nod
<FJKong> -..-
<Laney> mitya57: have you seen http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/panel.png before?
<Laney> (that's -applet)
<chenyu> Hello everyone, I've got a bug on systemd-shim, this deamon poweroff  the system after resumming from S3.  can I report the bug to maillist or?  I've once reported this bug to freedesktop, but they ask me to report it to ubuntu team instead.
<mdeslaur> chenyu: open a terminal and type "ubuntu-bug systemd-shim"
<chenyu> mdeslaur: hi, I think there might be someting more I want to offer to desktop team. I've debuged this problem and got some information
<chenyu> shoud I reported to https://launchpad.net
<mdeslaur> chenyu: doing that will open a bug in launchpad and automatically add details of your environment
<mdeslaur> chenyu: you can then add more information to that bug if you'd like
<chenyu> OK thanks. but now I'm not in my problem pc.
<chenyu> currently I'm not using that machine
<mdeslaur> chenyu: it's best if you do it from that computer. If you can't, you can start here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd-shim/+filebug
<mdeslaur> chenyu: please be sure to state which version of Ubuntu you are running
<chenyu> ok, I'll try to collect as much as possible information and send to launchpad .
<chenyu> mdeslaur:  I've post a thread , can you please help info the developer to look at it? thanks . I saw the lastest reply for the question is in 2013... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd-shim/+bug/1455520
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1455520 in systemd-shim (Ubuntu) " systemd-shim executes 'poweroff' after resuming from suspend-to-memory(S3) " [Undecided,New]
<mitya57> Laney: do you mean the duplicated nm-applet or the strange thing on the left?
<mitya57> If the latter, then what's that? :)
<Laney> mitya57: huuuuuuge spotify
<Laney> the icon is sized wrong
<Laney> don't worry about the network ones, the other one is indicator-network
<mitya57> It is an indicator, not a native applet, right?
<Laney> indeed
<mitya57> let me look then
<mitya57> Oh, it doesn't have a source code? :(
 * didrocks just spent 40 minutes in fear that his ecryptfs home data was broken
<didrocks> reboot, couldn't get any login, even in prompt
<tyhicks> didrocks: what was the issue?
<didrocks> ok, happened again
<didrocks> so, schroot tries fails and try to remount things
<didrocks> like crazy
<didrocks> (more than 500 mounts in 20s)
<didrocks> not sure how the click chroots got into that state
<didrocks> upstart deals a little bit better the priorities, enabing me to stop all schroot sessions
<tyhicks> didrocks: ah, so you had schroot sessions open across the reboot?
<didrocks> tyhicks: yeah, which is the expected behavior
<didrocks> but a bug triggered this infinitive mount hell
<mitya57> Laney: can you please paste somewhere the dbus-monitor dump of spotify's startup?
 * mitya57 is on Debian i386 now, so can't test
<didrocks> tyhicks: so I had to stops brutally my session (couldn't get anything
<didrocks> tyhicks: and on reboot -> restart session -> same bug
<mitya57> Laney: it seems to use Qt 4, so it might be our (sni-qt) bug
<didrocks> tyhicks: I have an ecryptfs home, I tried to create my today's chroot with the trick to circumvent the bug due to home being its own partition
<Laney> mitya57: OK, in a bit, thanks for looking!
<didrocks> ok, on sdk reboot, I see that schroot are now closing after updating
 * mitya57 ported sni-qt to qt5 so has some code knowledge
<didrocks> well, not closing, but at least, the number is stable
<didrocks> ok, just doing a reboot to check if I can connect and avoid this mount hell, and then, calling it a week
<didrocks> see you guys!
<Laney> bye!
<didrocks> finally cleaned it up, but the workaround didn't do it for me
<didrocks> well, at least, I can go on week-end with a working machine :)
<didrocks> see you on Monday!
<willcooke> g'night
<willcooke> oh!
<willcooke> I'm on holiday on MOnday
<willcooke> ta ta
<ari-tczew> Laney: appreciation for merging gnome-screensaver, nice work
<qengho> Nice. If sikuli had autopkgtests, they would have caught that sikuli was broken and therefore would not enter the repo and then cause failures in sikuli-using chromium autopkgtests.
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-05-16
<chenyu> does ubuntu use systemd or upstart ? I saw both systemd-udev and upstart-udev daemon in 14.04 LTS
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-16
<hikiko> hello
<Laney> ahoy ahohohohohohoy
<Laney> bleddy europeans
<willcooke> morning Laney
<Laney> how do willcooke?
<willcooke> typical lazy lefties
<davmor2> Laney: you know we are Europeans right :P
<davmor2> willcooke: you leave left handers out of it :P
<Laney> I've ordered the tug boats to start pulling
<Laney> by the end of the week we'll be 500m off NYC
<willcooke> :D
<davmor2> Laney: can you make it florida instead be nice to get some actual sun
<Laney> pastrami
<willcooke> 16GB USB flash drives are now 3 quid.
<willcooke> ?!
<duflu> willcooke: Yes. Or AUD$8-$10
<duflu> They may not last more than a week though
<willcooke> haha!
<willcooke> Very true
<duflu> Although the only one I remember dying of late was SanDisk brand
<duflu> willcooke: More amazing are 128GB and now 256GB microSDs
<willcooke> This is Toshiba, but I very much dobut that anyone who actually works at Toshiba has anything to do with it
<duflu> Just stare at them in wonder
<willcooke> O_o
<willcooke> The world has gone mad
<duflu> willcooke: I found the former recently for around 40 quid equivalent
 * willcooke grumbles about kids today
<willcooke> 1TB SSDs are still pricey, but I expect people want those to last a few years min.
<duflu> More amazing that I can measure they do get the advertised 80MB/s
<willcooke> incredible
 * duflu also looks at the box of floppy disks he never sorted, and has no drive to read 
<willcooke> ha! yes.
<happyaron> willcooke duflu for performance I'd recommend sandisk cz80
<happyaron> it's about 26gbp for 64gig
<willcooke> happyaron, good to know, thanks
<davmor2> duflu: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/221953327364?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=122&chn=ps&googleloc=1007249&poi=&campaignid=207297426&device=c&adgroupid=13585920426&rlsatarget=pla-131843261346&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=122 no excuses
<duflu> davmor2: OK then. I claim laziness now
<duflu> Also time to make dinner :)
<Trevinho> hikiko|ln: hey, there are several MPs about the expo/scale fixes for bottom launcher... I mean some from handsomefeng, other yours... They're almost the same, but not sure if I'm missing something... Why this duplication?
<hikiko|ln> Trevinho, I think that handsome_feng is trying to fix the maximised window bug and for some reason he cloned my branches instead of starting from scratch
<hikiko|ln> if you see the branches they are identical
<hikiko|ln> I don't know why he used mine
<Trevinho> mh, I see
<Trevinho> well, unity side is different...
<hikiko|ln> well, my branches fix the scale and the expo
<hikiko|ln> feel free to merge them if they are ok
<hikiko|ln> and then we just add a depends on ... branch to handsome feng's
<hikiko|ln> so that we don't have duplicate changes
<Trevinho> hikiko|ln: ok, as his branch is not relly using your commit... But the raw diff. Anyway, yours fine... BUt you've to do an one line change:
<Trevinho> workArea.setBottom (optionGetYBottomOffset ());
<Trevinho> has to be come:
<Trevinho> workArea.setBottom (workArea.bottom () + optionGetYBottomOffset ());
<Trevinho> hikiko|ln: can you fix this, so I can add it to the landing list?
<hikiko|ln> sure give me a minute
<hikiko|ln> 5 minutes :p
<hikiko|ln> brb
<Trevinho> hikiko|ln: ok
<hikiko|ln> Trevinho, are you sure this is needed?
<hikiko|ln> it won't make the area appear larger?
<Trevinho> hikiko|ln: mhmhmh.... Well, let me think... it should be workArea.bottom () - offset actually... isn't it?
<hikiko|ln> no
<hikiko|ln> it should be == bottomYOffset
<hikiko|ln> because when the workarea quad is made
<hikiko|ln> the bottom is subtracted
<Trevinho> hikiko|ln: well, workarea bottom could be not zero when you've two monitor stacked vertically
<Trevinho> well, sorry I didn't want to mean 0.. but monitor height
<hikiko|ln> certainly not 0 but I think it should be ybottom offset
<Trevinho> hikiko|ln: yeah, but you've to take in consideration the old value for botom()
<hikiko|ln> let me check
<Trevinho> if you've two monitors stacked vertically, the top one has a bottom that is non zero...
<hikiko|ln> right
<hikiko|ln> I got it
<hikiko|ln> so on single monitor bottom = 0
<hikiko|ln> and we can safely do bottom + offset
<hikiko|ln> ok :) give me a minute to run it and I push it
<hikiko|ln> Trevinho, I pushed the change, thank you
<hikiko|ln> wait a min where's the expo change :
<hikiko|ln> Trevinho, wait a sec the expo change is missing from this branch
<hikiko|ln> no it's there
<hikiko|ln> :p
<hikiko|ln> ignore :)
<desrt> hello humans
<willcooke> hi desrt
<hikiko|ln> hi desrt
<hikiko|ln> ttys again \m/ reboot :/
<desrt> good morning willcooke, hikiko|ln
<desrt> everyone have a good weekend?
<hikiko> wow, I forgot it's monday :)
<a1fa> ood day guys
<andyrock> hey guys
<a1fa> hikiko: i was finally able to document the bug with the disappearing windows
 * Laney is attacking 3.20 css
 * davmor2 sounds like the 3.20 css is winning, put some effort in laney ;)
<Laney> I SHALL BE VICTORIOUS
<Trevinho> Laney: you will
 * davmor2 bets Â£80 on 3.20 css and Â£100 on Laney I like to edge my bets :)
<Laney> quite bad currently
<Laney> less bad than it was though
<willcooke> gnight all
<willcooke> meh, forgot about meetings later
<willcooke> going afk, back to speak to robert_ancell later
<Trevinho> Ouch, I'm getting a build failure in unity in yakkety ppc64el....  How can i debug that... I guess quemu isn't the best thing, right?
<Laney> TREVINHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<Trevinho> LANEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
<Laney> link?
<Laney> can probably sort out access to a box
<Laney> but tomorrow
<Trevinho> Laney: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/259848746/buildlog_ubuntu-yakkety-ppc64el.unity_7.5.0+16.10.20160516.1-0ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<Trevinho> Laney: oh, that would be coooool
<Laney> did you retry?
 * Trevinho checks if there's something in the code that could trigger it... But that test lived there for years with no issue in all archs
<Trevinho> so.....
<Trevinho> Laney: yep
<Trevinho> twice
<Trevinho> same crash, same pos
<Laney> k
<Trevinho> Laney: thanks
<Laney> pitti can also help with that
<Trevinho> Mh, actually there's something that could trigger it in code.... But.... I see it only in that arch, so it's quite bizarre
<willcooke> morning robert_ancell
<willcooke> *pounce*
<robert_ancell> willcooke, hikiko
<willcooke> :)
<robert_ancell> willcooke, or hi
<willcooke> he!
<willcooke> heh
<willcooke> robert_ancell, attente - gimme 5 mins to finish this email and I'll be with you
<hikiko> robert_ancell, hi
<robert_ancell> hikiko, hi!
<willcooke> robert_ancell, attente ok done
<willcooke> g'night all
<attente> robert_ancell: the branch is on git.gnome.org as wip/temp/ubuntu-xenial-rebased-corrected
<attente> robert_ancell: at some point, i gave up on properly amending commits and just did a fix-up patch in the end
<robert_ancell> attente, cool
<attente> but basically it should be the same result as a resolved merge between GNOME_SOFTWARE_3_20_2 and wip/ubuntu-xenial
<robert_ancell> attente, ok, I pushed to wip/rancell/ubuntu-xenial-rebase
<robert_ancell> I think the merge commit got confused, but hopefully it worked..
<attente> robert_ancell: ok, i'll check the diff after dinner
<a1fa> xset m 0 0
<a1fa> Andrea, you here?
<a1fa> thanks for picking up that bug ;)
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-17
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> Trevinho: yes, with hardwired key actions there are no userspace notifications, so we can't create notification bubbles in userspace
<pitti> but not a biggie for a kbd backlight -- I mean, the notification shold be that the brightness changes :)
<willcooke> morning all
<willcooke> seb128, need to leave early this evening, just fyi
<hikiko> morning willcooke
<willcooke> once the meeting is done
<willcooke> hi hikiko
<seb128> hey willcooke & desktopers
<seb128> willcooke, k, no problem ... do you want me to handle the meeting?
<willcooke> seb128, nah, should be wrapped up by 5 my time I think
<seb128> likely yes
<happyaron> hey seb128
<seb128> hey happyaron, how are you?
<happyaron> great, you?
<seb128> happyaron, I'm going to look at your nm 1.2.2 today, sorry didn't manage to get to it on friday and yesterday was an holiday in France
<seb128> happyaron, I'm good thanks :-)
<happyaron> np, the link is updated - https://launchpad.net/~happyaron/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+sourcepub/6431454/+listing-archive-extra
<happyaron> and will have a meeting with oem people for nm in a couple of minutes
<Sweet5hark> goood morning desktoppers!
<seb128> happyaron, any specific issue/topic from oem?
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark! had a good w.e? (was yesterday off for you as well?)
<seb128> happyaron, btw did you talk to anybody from kubuntu about the symbol issue in their bindings?
<happyaron> seb128: there is a list, will send something out after the meeting
<seb128> k, great
<happyaron> seb128: yep we talked last week
<happyaron> they are going to ask upstream for a proper solution
<seb128> k
<seb128> what component has the issue?
<seb128> is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/networkmanager-qt/5.18.0-0ubuntu1.2 a fix for that?
<seb128> or something else?
<happyaron> it's not a fix for that
<happyaron> but a recompile may work around it
<seb128> k
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yesterday was off too here. I wasted a lot of time on the weekend to #makespacegreatagain (aka playing Stellaris now that its out)
<seb128> can  you ping them again? they are going to block the sru until that's sorted out
<happyaron> will do today
<Sweet5hark> stellaris is just slightly more addictive than crack. About on the same level as a new release of Civilizations just-one-more-turn-syndrome.
<seb128> happyaron, thanks
<seb128> Sweet5hark, lol, sounds like better to stay away from it ;-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: its lots of fun though ;)
<seb128> I can imagine :-)
<seb128> but those also the best way to cut your sleep hours :p
<seb128> "I'm close from victory, should be done in a few more turns"
<seb128> 1.5h later "ok, Ã'm getting there, just a bit more effort and it's done"
<seb128> then it's 3am
<seb128> been there :p
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yeah, the tendency of "wtf is the sun doing dawning outside, it was just setting ..." is strong in this one.
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> yo
<Sweet5hark> Laney: I see the bears didnt want to eat you over the weekend?
<Laney> just the slugs
<Laney> but they are week
<Laney> weak
<seb128> hey Laney! how are you?
<seb128> had fun camping?
<seb128> and how was monday around? not too crazy?
<Laney> hi seb128
<Laney> camping was fun, nice area out there
<Laney> didn't get much sleep though
<Laney> so was a quiet weekend otherwise ;-)
<Laney> monday was okay... just worked on the hire stuff a bit and then the theme for 3.20 mostly
<Laney> how ws your long weekend?
<seb128> oh, you are doing the theme updatE?
<seb128> nice :-)
<seb128> quite good! though the weather was not as nice as previous week
<seb128> we had friends over on saturday to make fun of the eurovision singers while eating pizza ;-)
<seb128> otherwise played some videogames/watched some tennis on TV/relaxed mostly
<Laney> there's always tennis!
 * Laney cries
<Laney> email without filter rules
<Laney> oh my dear lord
<seb128> oh, you did that email migration?
<Laney> I have autopkgtest failures in with debian-devel in with emails about cycling stuff in with launchpad bug mail
<seb128> and yeah, tennis is good :p
<Laney> "did"
<Laney> I would say started
<seb128> now is the fun part? ;-)
<Laney> indeed
<Laney> need to learn this sieve filtering language they use
<Laney> dovecot's one
<willcooke> hey seb128 - did you upload the new Calendar to X btw?
 * willcooke goes looking for the link to the queue
<seb128> willcooke, yeah, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=gnome-calendar
<seb128> the queue has 39 items though
<willcooke> seb128, sweet.  thanks.  I can test in proposed though right>?
<seb128> it's not in proposed yet
<seb128> workflow is
<seb128> upload -> queue
<seb128> review/ack -> proposed
<seb128> verified -> updates
<willcooke> seb128, ahh, I see.  I saw "pocket: proposed" and thought it was already there.  nw
<seb128> no, it's the target
<willcooke> got it
<willcooke> seb128, Laney - with the +1 from design and a comment from sabdfl, I (think I) have made this bug SRU compliant:
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-themes/+bug/762349
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 762349 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU] Difficult to distinguish which tab is selected" [High,In progress]
<willcooke> when you get a sec, could you read over it and see if it's ok?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, seems like people mentioned your name on bug #1577316 / asking for debugging hint
<ubot5> bug 1577316 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice Base Crash when i try to connect to mysql" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1577316
 * Sweet5hark looks
<willcooke> happyaron, great work on OEM NM issues - thanks
<Sweet5hark> seb128: commented on with some (hopefully helpful) hints
<seb128> Sweet5hark, thanks
<andyrock> morning
<andyrock> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-menus/+bug/1506744/comments/42
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1506744 in libunity (Ubuntu) "Newly installed applications do not show in the dash" [High,In progress]
<willcooke> new wifi card is here
<willcooke> going to attempt to fit it.
<willcooke> wish me luck....
<Laney> live strong
<willcooke> oh man, there are about a mllion screws to remote
<willcooke> remove
<willcooke> I predict pain
<Laney> is this in a laptop?
<willcooke> yeah, x220
<Laney> fun
<Laney> keep track of where they all came from
<willcooke> I found a video on the Lenovo website
<willcooke> right, here goes nothing... powering off....  START THE CLOCK
<Laney> a suspicious single beep just sounded from somewhere in this room
 * Laney panics
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/gtk320.png
<Laney> don't know about you but that looks pixel perfect to me
<Laney> going to upload now
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<ricotz> Laney, hi, please make sure to add https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-3-20&id=e006f3ca98990f6e3c8da58b49d7feba8403bb47
<Laney> did you look at the screenshot?
<ricotz> Laney, not really
<Laney> pretty sure there will be a point release before this is good
<ricotz> I didnt expect this so land any other than in a PPA though
<Laney> check it yo
<willcooke> Done!
<Laney> congrats
<willcooke> wifi is connected at a massive 1Mb
<willcooke> so... hmmmmmmmmmm
<Laney> 5mb/s \m/
<willcooke> Thankfully my wired ethernet connection is connected at 1000 Mb :)
<willcooke> suppose I should test it actually works then...
<willcooke> undocking........
<willcooke_> yay
<willcooke_> now connected at 65 Mb
 * willcooke_ goes for a walk around the house
<willcooke_> Kitchen!
<willcooke_> End of the garden!
<willcooke_> 58Mbps
<willcooke_> In reality I'm getting 3Mb, but thats ok
<willcooke_> redocked
<willcooke> good.
<willcooke> hello aquarius_
<aquarius_> yo :)
<aquarius_> hey, desktop peeps. How should a Python Gtk3 program play a system sound? GSound doesn't seem to be present in gi.repository on 14.04 or 16.04. (Perhaps a Trevinho question?)
<pitti> aquarius_: gir1.2-gsound-1.0 should provide libcanberra bindings
<pitti> or rather, GSound wraps libcanberra, and that's the GI binding
<aquarius_> pitti, that doesn't seem to exist on 14.04?
<pitti> but on 16.04
<aquarius_> ya, it's in 16.04
<pitti> and you said "14.04 or 16.04" :)
<aquarius_> heh :) Apologies. It's not present in 14.04 and it's not installed by default in 16.04, I should have said :)
<pitti> no idea for 14.04 I'm afraid, perhaps subprocess.call(['paplay', 'stuff.wav']) ? :-)
<pitti> (honestly, no idea)
<aquarius_> on 14.04, am I best to use the old static canberra bindings? I could just shell out to canberra-gtk-play...
<aquarius_> haha! great minds, etc :)
<aquarius_> actually, shelling out is probably not a terrible idea; sounds are fire-and-forget anyway, it's not critical if they don't work, and process startup is fast.
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts? had a good w.e?
<pitti> hey seb128! wonderful indeed, thanks! We went to Dresden to visit family again
<seb128> ah, nice!
<pitti> seb128: on Sunday we did a rafting tour on a wildwater channel, that was a lot of fun (and splash and water :) )
<pitti> pics coming soon
<pitti> seb128: and we had a long w.e. here due to Pentecost
<pitti> seb128: et toi, as-tu passÃ© un bon weekend?
<seb128> oui, aussi merci
<seb128> had a 3 days w.e as well
<seb128> was mostly relaxing
<seb128> we had friends over on saturday to eat pizza and made fun of eurovision singers ;-)
<seb128> otherwise watching tennis on tv, played some video game, had some walks outside
<Trevinho> aquarius_: mh yeah.... I guess for 14.04 you've to fallback to canberra or some scripts
<aquarius_> yeah. I shall shell out. :)
<aquarius_> thank you pitti and Trevinho!
<pitti> aquarius_: not shell, just subprocess.call()
<aquarius_> os.system is probably as good here, I think? I'm not passing untrusted data to it (it's only called from within my app with hardcoded sound names), and it needs to be a background process so we don't block on it
<pitti> os.system is almost never a good idea
<aquarius_> agreed, because you have to escape things properly, you can't get its response, etc. In this particular case, I'm not worried about any of that, though?
<pitti> aquarius_: subprocess.Popen(['canberra-gtk-play', 'yoursound.wav']) and clean it up later on
<pitti> (or don't, if you aren't interested in the exit code)
<aquarius_> I agree it's not hard, I'm just wondering why the change in this particular case matters? I normally avoid os.system because it's bad for security, as mentioned.
<aquarius_> (reads documentation on how to run it in the background)
<seb128> happyaron, do you have a packaging vcs for network-manager?
<aquarius_> pitti, hrm, running the process in the background seems quite a bit harder this way...
<pitti> aquarius_: how do you mean? Popen() always starts it in the background
<pitti> (unlike .call() or .check_call())
<pitti> to the contrary, os.system() is syncronous
<aquarius_> Yes. Yes, it does. subprocess.call doesn't, though, because I am stupid :)
<aquarius_> fixed now :)
<happyaron> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~happyaron/network-manager/+git/ubuntu
<seb128> happyaron, thanks, it means I can't just cowboy hack the upload :p
<seb128> happyaron, I was pondering adding https://git.gnome.org/browse/network-manager-applet/commit/?id=c3255ed740592a2f23a7ebc47f1acd2dd2d768b3 to the applet update
<happyaron> seb128: I'm thinking about pushing 1.2.2 directly
<happyaron> as the OEM guys would need that for most of their problems
<happyaron> what do you think?
<seb128> happyaron, that commit is after 1.2.2
<seb128> you mean in xenial?
<seb128> we just need the current SRU copied over first
<seb128> it has the important fix for oem
<seb128> or do they have other issues?
<happyaron> they have several other issues
<seb128> happyaron, do they have a list/bugs?
<happyaron> seb128: check email
<seb128> happyaron, thanks
<seb128> happyaron, but yeah, let's keep rolling and prepare 1.2.2 for xenial
<happyaron> yep, will prepare 1.2.2 for yakkety for the moment
<seb128> happyaron, I though you had that ready?
<seb128> next steps would be to get it in a ppa that oem&co can use for testing and that is going to turn into the next SRU
<seb128> xenial ppa that is
<Trevinho> seb128: hey, on the snap world... I've did some tests and at the end I think we can run most of gtk apps generating caches at runtime... here's an example: https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/snappy-playpen/hello-unity-fixes/+merge/294858 but I can apply the same to the calc snap we were hacking in Prague
<Trevinho> pitti: I can't find the channel now, but I read somewhere a ping from you about the fact that hardwired events can't be notifier by udev/upower, or something like that, right?
<pitti> Trevinho: yes, some laptop models are like that -- the brightness keys (screen or kbd) don't send any software event, they just directly change the brightness
<seb128> Trevinho, shrugh, hacks on hacks :-/
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, I know.. that's how things work, though :/
<seb128> Trevinho, so we would regenerate the caches at every application run?
<Trevinho> seb128:  at least now things are generated on first run, which means later startup times are reduced a lot
<seb128> ah, right
<Trevinho> seb128: no, just first time
<seb128> the user dir is persistent
<seb128> right
<Trevinho> yes, I made it snap version-dependent though
<seb128> that makes sense
<Trevinho> so if new packages, or new gsettings are added, they get regenrated
<seb128> the content might change between versions
<Trevinho> exactly
<seb128> what do you build from?
<seb128> source?
<seb128> for the quilt thing to work
<seb128> because the ones we played with was using the deb
<seb128> so no compilation
<Trevinho> pitti: yes... That's almost true... Almost since... in my thinkpads for example, the event is not triggered by default. However, by tuning the proc ibm hotkeys sysnode, I can get a KEY_KBDTOGGLEILLUM (or whatherver iscalled). But that break things, since laptop-side is just a notification that brightness has changed, not a request of changing it from
<Trevinho> userland level
<Trevinho> pitti: so... I was wondering if there's a way to use that event, and instead of triggering it to the userpsace, handling it a the kernel module level, to send an udev event that the led status has changed
<Trevinho> pitti: then... upower could monitor that, maybe...
<pitti> Trevinho: that's a lot of custom code in userspace then (new uevents etc.)
<pitti> presumably sending a new type of key via evdev is simpler, but we don't have a definition for such new "indicate only" keys
<seb128> pitti, is there any chance you get slot for the upower issue this week? can I help in some way to move it forward (I'm going to have a quick look to the upower code but if it's not trivial and I'm probably not going to be able to block enough days to learn the code&co)
<pitti> Trevinho: I don't know whether this can be tweaked in the kernel/BIOS
<Trevinho> pitti: mh.. I see... Well in some cases it seems that kernel events are fired when kbd illumination changes (only when zero'ed though)
 * pitti frankly doesn't see the point -- isn't the best (and only) notification that you should see that the bridghtness of the keyboard actually changes?
<Trevinho> pitti: so... making upower to actually read the value instead of relying on a cached one is something better for you?
<pitti> Trevinho: upower reads the actual values from sysfs
<Trevinho> pitti: yeah, I don't mind of the notification...
<pitti> it doesn't "cache" anything, it just proxies sysfs as dbus properties
<Trevinho> pitti: the thing is that u-s-d needs to know the actual state before idling the laptop
<Trevinho> or it will resume things to the old value
<pitti> seb128: ugh, is it that complicated? I guess most of that code is autogenerated indeed
<pitti> seb128: anyway, I'll have a look now
<Trevinho> pitti: mhmh... https://cgit.freedesktop.org/upower/tree/src/up-kbd-backlight.c#n106
<pitti> seb128: this "one dbus per user" is highly annoying, I'll postpone that
<Trevinho> seb128: are we spakeing of the same thing?
<Trevinho> seb128: of the same issue, I mean, or something else?
<Trevinho> pitti: priv->brightness is only updated  when user sets it, and that's what is returned when you call the getter
<pitti> Trevinho: oh, this; ok, so you're saying this never gets written correctly from sysfs?
<pitti> Trevinho: no, seb128 means freedesktop bug 95350
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 95350 in general "up_client_new returns an invalid object when upowerd isn't started" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95350
<Trevinho> pitti: currently thinkpad and dell systems have this scenario: you change brightness from keyboard, the laptop goes idle, ups turn down the brightnes... Saving the previous level around. However the previous level is got from a cached value since if you call getbrightness from upower, it will always return the cached value, not the last one you changed. Now,
<Trevinho> when you get back to the laptop, you won't get the proper backlight.
<Trevinho> this is done this way, because there are laptops (like asus ones), which just reports a kernel request to change brightness., then userspace changes it.. calling SetBrightness in Upower... And so all this works. But in the other cases it doesn't
<Trevinho> marco@tricky:~$ cat /sys/class/leds/tpacpi\:\:kbd_backlight/brightness
<Trevinho> 1
<Trevinho> marco@tricky:~$ gdbus call --system --dest org.freedesktop.UPower --object-path /org/freedesktop/UPower/KbdBacklight --method org.freedesktop.UPower.KbdBacklight.GetBrightness
<Trevinho> (2,)
<pitti> Trevinho: so this could be changed to drop the brightness iternal property and always read it
<Trevinho> this is what I'm getting now
<Trevinho> exactly... that's what I wanted to do in fact
<Trevinho> I just was wondering if upstream is fine with that
<pitti> ok from my side; best to file an upstream bug report, then we can ask hughsie
<Trevinho> ok
<seb128> pitti, I don't know if it's complicated but I'm not familiar with the codebase, I can start pocking a bit around in case it's easy but I've some meetings in the afternoon and I'm probably not going to be able to do much in between
<pitti> seb128: looking at it now
<seb128> danke
<seb128> sorry to be nagging but it seems to hit quite some LTS users
<pitti> seb128: does u-s-d check for up_client_new() returning NULL?
<pitti> i. e. will that actually help fixing a crash, or just make it crash differently on a NULL ptr?
<seb128> pitti, it's up_client_get_lid_is_closed() which segfaults, has that function in upower-glib has "g_return_val_if_fail (UP_IS_CLIENT (client), FALSE);"
<seb128> has->and
<seb128> pitti, also the usd side didn't change since trusty and that was not an issue
<seb128> so I expect that fixing the bug is going to make usd happy again
<pitti> seb128: hm, same upower behaviour in trusty and wily
<pitti> seb128: so I guess the fact that upowerd doesn't start is the thing that actually changed and triggered this?
<pitti> (or takes long to start)
<seb128> could be I guess :-/
<seb128> pitti, sorry otp ... but yeah, the root of the issue is probably a kernel bug delaying upower start on usb enumeration
<seb128> unsure how we could workaround from usd is upower returns a valid object
<seb128> is->if
<seb128> which then trigger an upower segfault in an libupower-glib function when used on the said object
<seb128> -upower
<pitti> seb128: I am looking into that now, but as I said this won't really help to fix the issue
<pitti> seb128: unless usd repeatedly tries to connect, it will be stuck with a NULL object forever, and thus not work
<seb128> hum, right...
<pitti> seb128: sorry, it's been too long: g_object_new (UP_TYPE_CLIENT, NULL);
<pitti> that calls some type specific constructor, something like up_client_alloc() or so?
<pitti> which we could change to return NULL on failure?
<seb128> (otp,going to look in a bit)
<pitti> but I'm really not sure that this is the correct fix
<a1fa> andrea, you here?
<pitti> because of the above (once upower does finish starting, the object should become useful
<pitti> oh, _init()
<seb128> pitti, shouldn't the upower call just block until upower gets ready rather than timing out then?
<pitti> seb128: no, would potentially block forever then
<pitti> and I can't change the object pointer in _init()
<seb128> that would be the right thing to do in that case, the upower plugin is useless without upower
 * Sweet5hark is out for a bit (shopping for an office chair that doesnt suck)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, good luck finding one!
<pitti> seb128: ah, I think I could unref the object in up_client_new() and return NULL; that would at least provide a more defined behaviour
<pitti> but I'm not sure whether it's actually the more desirable behaviour
<pitti> desrt: halp
<seb128> pitti, he's in a call talking I guess we can discuss that more after that meeting
<seb128> she*
<pitti> bah, up_client_get() doesn't have such an UP_IS_CLIENT() assertion, but instead
<pitti> â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦if (client->priv->proxy == NULL)
<pitti>                 return;
<pitti> *throws hands into air* horribly inconsistent
<seb128> pitti, but yeah, maybe we need to just get the kernel bug fixed...
<seb128> happyaron, do you know why bug #1547826 was not closed? is that still an issue?
<ubot5> bug 1547826 in ibus (Ubuntu) "Enable libappindicator support" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547826
<dandre> Hello,
<dandre> I am looking for a widget I could place in my desktop toobar to create more or less a custom menu like th main menu but not included as a sub menu of it. I am using gnome flashbak desktop
<dandre> I have found a simple python script sshmenu but the launch button goes into the notification area and I want a separate button. Is there any possibility?
<dandre> it's not sshmenu but sshplus
<seb128> desrt, hey
<desrt> hey
<seb128> desrt, in the call you mentioned discussions about mimetype/url handlers/help
<seb128> who discussed that/where
<desrt> attente and i were discussing it yesterday
<desrt> he's writing a dbus service to allow confined apps to open uris "on the outside"
<seb128> ah ok, I've that on my list of things I meant to look at
<desrt> right now we're doing it really simple, as mentioned: allow http, https, mailto... everything else is a no-no
<seb128> desrt, attente, I opened https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1576296 about that btw
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1576296 in snapd (Ubuntu) "gnome software help integration needed" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> I think those urli's will probably cover 99% of cases
<willcooke> uri
<seb128> well, "help" is usually help: uris
<seb128> which yelp is the handler for
<seb128> desrt, also I didn't understand the bits about what is flatpack currently doing for gsettings? do they have something to let app change its own keys?
<desrt> not yet
<desrt> that's what we're discussing on the call
<desrt> *flatpak btw
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> and yeah, I followed the discussion
<desrt> because, you know, dropping letters is cool
<seb128> I just didn't hear alex at the start, audio was cutting
<desrt> basically, they will do the same thing as we do
<seb128> I though he said that they had a simple solution which restricted the schemas to current app
<desrt> this was a theoretical imagined solution.  it doesn't exist yet.
<seb128> k, that's the bit I missed
<seb128> thanks
<desrt> he was talking more about how he supposed it would work
<seb128> do they currently give access to the system db?
<desrt> there is not usually a system db
<seb128> sorry, I meant the user one
<seb128> but full db
<desrt> it depends on the settings
<desrt> it's possible to specify a package that gets full user homedir access
<desrt> just like we can
<desrt> in that case, it would work
<seb128> right
<desrt> otherwise, not
<seb128> it's all or something
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> it's all or *nothing*
<seb128> they also have the userdir under the normal location when they do that, right?
<seb128> where snaps has it under some /snap path
<desrt> in general, flatpaks are much more flexible in terms of file locations because they use a new mount namespace instead of apparmor-based filtering
<desrt> so they don't run into the same path-relocation problems that we do
 * jdstrand notes that the apparmor-based filtering has nothing to do with that
<jdstrand> it is the choice of paths that is the problem
<jdstrand> but that is a technicality
<seb128> well, if we had a mount namespace doing the restriction we wouldn't need to apparmor filter behind?
<jdstrand> yes
<jdstrand> you want the MAC
<jdstrand> but don't get hung up on that
<jdstrand> I think you mean file namespace
<seb128> yeah
<jdstrand> well, NEWNS
<jdstrand> anyhoo
<seb128> but right, what is creating issues from our side is not what is used to restrict the locations
<seb128> just that things are available at a non standard path
<jdstrand> correct
<seb128> which confuses existing code
<jdstrand> but there are problems on either side
<jdstrand> as soon as you use a mount namespace, things get really complicated with sharing
<seb128> sharing?
<jdstrand> yes
<tyhicks> sharing data between two or more snaps
<jdstrand> imagine a snap ships two commands
<jdstrand> if they are supposed to share the same mount namespace, you need to make sure you do that right
<tyhicks> oh, I wasn't thinking about sharing between two commands but that's true...
<jdstrand> that isn't insurmountable
<jdstrand> but then, like tyhicks said, if you have two snaps sharing data, things get complicated. 3, 4, more, etc
<seb128> I didn't even know that snaps could share datas
<seb128> I though they each had their own private dir
<seb128> with maybe access to some "normal" system locations
<jdstrand> by default, a snap gets private dirs that the commands use
<tyhicks> jdstrand: they'd need to share the same mount namespace or the launcher would need to set up a bind mount for a shared area between the two commands
<jdstrand> but interfaces will soon allow a snap from the same publisher to share data
<jdstrand> and other interfaces might share data as well
<jdstrand> tyhicks: yes
<seb128> I see
<jdstrand> tyhicks: let's explore this here for a moment (I know you and I have a meeting, but perhaps we can push it a moment)
<seb128> jdstrand, tyhicks, do you know if there is any plan to try make some things available at their standard location (by bind mount, or whatever else)?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: that's fine - I've been wanting to look into the possibility of a new mount ns some more anyways
<jdstrand> seb128: yes-- that is what opengl does, there is already some bind mount stuff happening in the launcher
<tyhicks> seb128: zyga and I will be working on adding the ability for interfaces to convey an fstab-like file so that the launcher will set up a series of bind mounts
<seb128> oh, nice
<seb128> tyhicks, is there a bug/blueprint/google doc about that?
<tyhicks> seb128: not that I know of - we just discovered the need for it late last week at the snappy sprint
<seb128> tyhicks, k, just curious on what cases did you find the need?
<seb128> tyhicks, I can see that being useful for things like locales definitions, mimetypes, fonts, etc
<jdstrand> tyhicks: I would think that planned work would fix these sorts of things in the same manner. I mean, in a way, we are effecting a new file namespace since we force commands to run within core's fs, then bind mount into it
<tyhicks> seb128: opengl support requires it - AFAIK, the kernel snap needs to ship some libs that need to be bind mounted in known locations for app snaps to use
<jdstrand> with newns, you create a blank one then bind mount into it
<tyhicks> seb128: yes, fonts are another identified usage
<seb128> great
<tyhicks> jdstrand: yes, there's a lot of overlap here
<jdstrand> tyhicks: ok, so, if we were going to implement newns now, what would it look like? then we can see what it would buy us and if it is appreciably different from the planned work
<tyhicks> jdstrand: they're setting up a mount namespace where / is a private tmpfs
<tyhicks> jdstrand: "/ is a private tmpfs not visible anywhere else. This is pivot_root:ed into so it is the new / and all other mounts from the host are unmounted from the namespace."
<tyhicks> so they're setting up *everything* in the new mount namespace
<jdstrand> right
<jdstrand> that is flatpak
<tyhicks> yes
<jdstrand> that's fine
<jdstrand> I'm trying to think if we were going to use newns, what would it look like so we can compare that to what we have and the planned bind mount work
<tyhicks> if we're going to use a new mount namespace, we'd have to do something similar
<jdstrand> sure
<jdstrand> what would we mount into it?
<jdstrand> I guess the core os snap
<tyhicks> yes
<tyhicks> possibly things from the kernel snap
<tyhicks> (like opengl libs)
<jdstrand> right
<tyhicks> on classic, we'd mount in certain things that we'd want to use from the system, such as fonts
<jdstrand> sure
<jdstrand> what about HOME?
<jdstrand> would one mount ~/snap/<name>/<version> as HOME?
<tyhicks> yes, if the home interface was plugged in
<jdstrand> ok, so not that
<tyhicks> I'd think we'd use ~/snap/<name>/<version> by default or $HOME depending on the home interface being plugged in
<willcooke> probably a stupid question, but.... could this be used to avoid shipping a whole Gtk in each Gtk app?  Like we could make the version shipping with classic available for use by snaps, and if you want something else (newer) then you ship it, or ship a snap with it in and then re-use that?
<jdstrand> that could be weird since home isn't autoconnected-- you can imagine a snap starts unconnected, then writes files, then is connected, etc
<jdstrand> willcooke: it could, but so could the planned work
<willcooke> even better :)
<jdstrand> willcooke: I think that is a different question. snaps are the way they are because they are supposed to be independent of the os
<tyhicks> jdstrand: true - the operation of connecting the home interface would need to migrate data or warn that data will be lost
<jdstrand> tyhicks: but let's assume that is fixed
 * tyhicks nods
<willcooke> jdstrand, sure, understood.  Just seeing if there is a potential work around to massive snaps for tiny apps.
<jdstrand> tyhicks: so, my feeling is that we aren't really gaining anything-- we identified everything we are already doing or planning to do
<jdstrand> the problem today is we aren't doing these other bind mounts
<tyhicks> that may be true
<jdstrand> let's for a moment assume that is true
<jdstrand> what do we gain if we do newns? what do we lose?
 * jdstrand is struggling to see what we gain since we are mounting large chunks of things into the newns so we still need fine-grained MAC
<jdstrand> but we are possibly adding more complexity
<tyhicks> the main difference is that we could prevent access to certain files/directories by simply not mounting them inside the new mount namespace instead of using AppArmor to mediate the access
<jdstrand> tyhicks: so I was assuming that we would still wrap this in MAC
<tyhicks> yes, we definitely would
<jdstrand> right
<jdstrand> so, what would we not mount?
<jdstrand> in other words, what is a specific example of what we might gain?
<tyhicks> well, since we said that we'd bind mount all of the os snap, everything would be mounted
<jdstrand> so we could slice that up
<tyhicks> we could
<tyhicks> don't know if it gains us anything
<jdstrand> or we could use what we already have
<tyhicks> I'm in agreement that, at this time, there are no tangible benefits to using a new mount ns versus bind mount support in interfaces
<jdstrand> ok, cool
<jdstrand> I think I am at the same place
<tyhicks> maybe we'll see something that we're missing when we do the bind mount work
<tyhicks> I'll keep an eye out for anything like that
<jdstrand> seb128, willcooke, desrt: so, the ease of the flatpak approach wrt to relocation compared to ours isn't a technical issue (ie, newns vs apparmor). currently what we are doing is similar to newns in a lot of ways, it is just that the planned bind mount/fstab work is not done yet
<seb128> jdstrand, I didn't know we had such work planned, so that's good news
<jdstrand> we could redo the fs setup and use the newns approach (wrapped with apparmor) and build up the bind mounts, but we can also just continue with the current fs setup and build up the bind mounts as planned
<seb128> jdstrand, tyhicks, did that work start? is there a place where to follow the work/discussions?
 * jdstrand defers to tyhicks 
<jdstrand> I can say it came up last week at the sprint
<tyhicks> seb128: I think zyga has started on his changes for snapd but I haven't started on my changes to ubuntu-core-launcher
<seb128> k
<seb128> well, in any case I guess we better wait on that then
<tyhicks> seb128: it is on both of our lists for this week
<seb128> rather than trying to patch glibc to make it loads locales from other custom dirs
<tyhicks> seb128: if there's not a bug, I'll get one filed soon and point you to it
<seb128> and other similar hacks we were considering
<seb128> tyhicks, thanks
<seb128> willcooke, ^ fyi
<willcooke> yeah, sounds like good news all round
<jdstrand> seb128: it sounds to me that the flatpak approach is sorta trying to also solve willcooke's question. you have a thick os that has your gtk libs, etc in it, and bind mount into the newns. snaps have a philosophical difference though in that snaps are supposed to be independent of the os. if we bind mount /usr/blah into the snap, then that snap is very much tied to a specific version of the os
<jdstrand> so there is probably some discussions that need to happen with the snappy architects on these fronts
<jdstrand> things I've heard about sdoc seem to be at odds with the 'snaps are independent' approach
<seb128> jdstrand, willcooke, right, bundling gtk or not ... that's a different approach and I can see pro&con in each
<seb128> I'm more concerned about things like having to bundle the glibc locales definitions
<seb128> or fonts
<jdstrand> I think there is probably a line that needs to be defined
<seb128> but that should be fixed with the bind mount&interfaces
<seb128> right
<jdstrand> it seems that locales and fonts are fairly straightforward in the 'I need to use what is available on the system' line, but other things are less clear
<jdstrand> like gschemas
<jdstrand> anyhoo
<jdstrand> interesting times
<seb128> indeed
<jdstrand> seb128, desrt, willcooke: hopefully this dispels any misconceptions that flatpaks are better in terms of relocation. I mean, they might be *today*, but the planned work is to not have as much reloaction pain
<seb128> well, we at least have wrapper hacks for image loaders & schemas
<seb128> jdstrand, it does, thanks
<desrt> jdstrand: so if we move over to mount namespaces does that mean we can stop using apparmor for enforcement?
<desrt> because that's sort of putting a cramp in our style in terms of advocating snaps as _the_ portable format for apps (since apparmor is not universal)
<jdstrand> desrt: that is a funny takeaway, but I'll answer your question in the way you asked-- no, we will want to wrap in MAC
 * jdstrand notes flatpak wants to use MAC as well
<desrt> no.  it doesn't.
<jdstrand> yes they do-- I just read about it
<desrt> just had a call with them and they made it quite clear
<jdstrand> then their docs are out of date
<desrt> if they do use it it will only be in the way that apparmor/selinux are typically used today
<desrt> ie: second line of defence against security breaches in apps
<desrt> it will not in any way be used as a front-line confinement mechanism
<jdstrand> snappy is more ambitious than flatpak as I read the current documentation. ie, they are using system namespaces to constrain apps. snaps may run root daemons and you can't constrain a root daemon with user namespaces
<desrt> that's going to be entirely namespaces, seccomp, etc.
<jdstrand> err
<jdstrand> system namespaces
<jdstrand> and user namespaces need a MAC as well considering all the security issues
<Trevinho> xnox: hey, for that upstart / dbus work... It seems it really fixes stuff :-), so can you backport to xenial?
<happyaron> seb128: need double check tomorrow
<Trevinho> I think you told me the steps, but I forgot what to do :-)
<desrt> jdstrand: i feel like we've been having this conversation for about 5 years...
<Trevinho> pitti: so, this does the trick for me: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16475829/
<desrt> i think neither of us have changed position at all during that time
<jdstrand> the other thing a MAC does is provide very convenient fine-grained mediation which can be used in combination with a file namespace
<Trevinho> together with an "hacked" usd that always check the last value before caching it
<jdstrand> I don't really appreciate that comment-- the security team has given a lot of thought to namespaces and we are actually using them in snappy. the fact system namespaces (which flatpak uses) cannot be used to constrain root processes. that isn't just me-- there are plenty of selinux and docker guys who say the same thing
<jdstrand> we must be able to constrain root, so we must have a MAC
<jdstrand> but we want to use namespace technologies in combination with a MAC
<jdstrand> that gives the best of both worlds in terms of security
<jdstrand> and sets us up for user namespaces (which in the last 5 years have literally had scores of CVEs attributed to them)
 * jdstrand notes that docker, lxc and lxd *also* use MAC in combination with namespaces. they work great together and offer a lot of flexibility
<pitti> seb128: if you are in a position to test (sorry, I'm not right now), I attached two patches to the upstream bug; the first one is the important one
<seb128> pitti, did you need/want desrt's input on the topic?
<pitti> seb128: it's now much clearer, but one question remains indeed
<pitti> desrt: is it a common or at least acceptable pattern that my_gobject_new() returns NULL on failure?
<desrt> only if the object in question is a subclass of GInitable
<pitti> desrt: in particular, should libupower-glib's up_client_new() return NULL if it can't connect to upowerd via dbus?
<desrt> er.  implements.
<pitti> otherwise, how would a client know that the returned object is useless/broken?
<desrt> pitti: the normal pattern here is to make this thing GInitable and GAsyncInitable and use those interfaces to implement a sync and async version of the constructor... both with cancellables, and both failable
<pitti> UpClient does not implement GIinitable
<desrt> then instead of using g_object_new() inside of your _new() you use g_initable_new()
<desrt> ditto for the _new_async()
<desrt> if the constructor can fail, then it ought to
<desrt> this is practically a "by definition" sort of thing
<pitti> yeah, it's more ore less a gdbus wrapper around upower's d-bus API
<desrt> sounds perfect, then
<desrt> GDBusProxy, itself, is async-initable
<desrt> if you did g_dbus_proxy_new_for_bus() then it would be a one-step operation for you
<desrt> (you could even do subclassing, but imho that would be pretty gross)
<pitti> desrt: so the patch on freedesktop bug 95350 is bad because UpClient doesn't implement GInitable?
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 95350 in general "up_client_new returns an invalid object when upowerd isn't started" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95350
<pitti> well, it *has* a GDbusProxy thing in its private class members, but it is not by itself a GInitable
<desrt> that's how you should be doing it, indeed
<pitti> the _init() does priv->proxy = up_exported_daemon_proxy_new_for_bus_sync(...)
<desrt> this is definitely evil.
<desrt> _init() should not block
<pitti> and that function is autogenerated code from that gdbus-binding-tool
<desrt> !!
<desrt> seriously?
<desrt> the tool codegens code that does blocking IO in an init function?
<pitti> _init() isn't autogenerated
<pitti> up_exported_daemon_proxy_new_for_bus_sync() is
<desrt> ah.  ya.  that makes sense.
<willcooke> zut alors!  It's team meeting time...  I have to leave in 30 mins, so desrt pitti ok to interupt you?
<pitti> what should block then? _new()?
<pitti> willcooke: sure, sorry
<willcooke> pitti, no no, sorry to jump in
<willcooke> oki
<seb128> just move them to #ubuntu-devel
<seb128> ;-)
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 17 15:31:05 2016 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski, fjkong(out), happyaron, hikiko, laney, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter(out), trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<desrt> pitti: do you want me to try to do a patch for this?
<desrt> willcooke: o/
<andyrock> o/
<seb128> hey
<Trevinho> \o
<Sweet5hark> heya
<dgadomski> o/
<willcooke> that'll do to get started
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> # proposed a fix for the bug about the newly installed application not appearing on the dash
<andyrock> # started working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1582433 just because I've aleady everthing setup to work on it
<seb128> andyrock, I saw your ping, just didn't have slots to go back to that yet, let me know if you need sponsoring (need to see if libunity and gnome-menus needs to land in locked steps)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1582433 in unity (Ubuntu) "Dash does not handle .desktop files correctly if there are hyphens in the directory path" [Low,Triaged]
<andyrock> # bug traging
<andyrock> *triaging
<andyrock> # reviews
<andyrock> # eof
<willcooke> thanks andyrock
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: attente
<andyrock> seb128: yeah i may need sponsoring
<seb128> let's discuss that after the meeting
<attente> hi, was at the snappy sprint last week
<attente> looked into how to add featured snaps to the overview shell of gnome-software
<attente> debugging some theming issues and menus in snaps for qt applications
<attente> looked into https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1580740, did a proof of concept fix with didrocks
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1580740 in Snappy "Cannot open a browser link from a snap that provides a link" [High,Triaged]
<attente> uploaded gnome-software rebased to 3.20.2 to a ppa, could use a lot of testing: https://launchpad.net/~attente/+archive/ubuntu/gnome-software
<attente> (eof)
<willcooke> thanks attente
<willcooke> welcome back home :)
<attente> thanks :)
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: desrt
<seb128> attente, hey, wb! hope it was a good week, glad you made it back ;-)
<desrt> o hai!
<attente> seb128: lol
<desrt> having a pretty interesting week.  got caught up on some glib reviewing last week, and this week i'm being pulled into a couple of new and interesting directions
<desrt> going to look at the possibility of using jhbuild to get more up-to-date versions of apps into snaps, while at the same time resolving all of the hardcoded-path issues that we keep running in to based on using .debs
<desrt> also had a really interesting conversation with alex just now about dconf in confined apps... have a clearer sense of direction now
<desrt> and for the rest of today i'm probably helping pitti make a much more complicated patch than he needs to for upower
<desrt> eof.
<willcooke> thanks desrt
<willcooke> did you ever make headway with that bug btw?
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> * more Samba debugging - turned out that 2 more users hit bug 1576109 - fortunately there already was a fix to that in a ppa
<ubot5> bug 1576109 in samba (Ubuntu) "gvfs-mount doesn't work with smb* 4.3.8 on a NetApp" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576109
<dgadomski> * still waiting for input to examine the kerberos auth samba bug I mentioned last week, so I'm stuck with this
<dgadomski> * researching possible fixes for bug 1578398 - prepared debdiffs with a temporary workaround for concerned users
<ubot5> bug 1578398 in imagemagick (Ubuntu Yakkety) "ImageMagick Security Issue: CVE-2016-3714" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1578398
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<dgadomski> thanks
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: FJKong
<willcooke> 1 do research on how to display candidate word window vertically,
<willcooke> 2 continue on animated skin work of sogou im.
<willcooke> 3 tracking bug : wrong position of candidate words window on firefox
<willcooke> eof
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: happyaron
<happyaron> hey
<happyaron> 1. Update NM (and some friends) 1.2.2 for yakkety and 1.2.0 for xenial
<happyaron> 2. Work with OEM people for NM related issues
<happyaron> eof
<willcooke> thanks happyaron
<willcooke> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: hikiko
<hikiko> hello
<hikiko> - working on this nasty bug in multimonitor: if we have two outputs o1 and o2, when the rendering is done in o2 and the components of o2 are scaled, some parts of the o1 appear in both outputs (eg o1's panel appears without artifacts in o1 but a part of it reappears scaled in o2). This indicates that there's either a problem in our 2D clipping (parts of o1 that should be clipped still appear and follow the o2 transformations) or that for some
<hikiko> reason we render in all outputs when we should only render in one. (what happens at the end is that compiz renders things per output but nux renders things in the whole screen).
<hikiko> - fixes in ezoom damage, +added signals to damage components only when there's a change in zoom transform
<hikiko> - a fix in expo, scale branch (merged by marco)
<hikiko> - a brief look at the vm issues - tasks
<hikiko> EOF
<willcooke> thanks hikiko
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> hi
<Laney> â¢ Got PagerDuty working for appstream monitoring, now I get called, texted and emailed when it stops updating!
<Laney> â¢ Send upstream fixes to move the 'show-weekdate' setting to a new key in gsettings-desktop-schemas
<Laney> â¢ A few updates/SRUs: glib, glib-networking gvfs
<Laney> â¢ Fix to gnome-calendar goa activation
<Laney> â¢ Start working on gtk 3.20 theme changes, going to be a few days worth of work there at least
<Laney> â¢ Help with reviewing/tweaking job description for new hires
<Laney> ð
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> * Finished with chromium 50.0.2661.102. Yes. Version 50. Gave to #security for upload.
<qengho> * Didn't get appstream included in Chromium yet. Sorry, Laney. Maybe later.
<qengho> * To-do: Figure out most recent SIGILL on snap of Google Chrome/Chromium. Could be some hidden SECCOMP fiddling.
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> thanks qengho
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: seb128
<qengho> And Laney, I made a kind of dead-man's-switch for notifications when a machine stops working.
<seb128> â¢ had monday off
<seb128> â¢ debugged usd/upower segfault, reduced to a simple upower example, filed upstream bug
<seb128> â¢ looked at the versions page not updating and restored the service
<seb128> â¢ joined discussion about using systemd user sessions in y
<seb128> â¢ SRUed a brasero update to fix translations and libdvdcss loading
<seb128> â¢ helped willcooke to debug missing speaker icon issue
<seb128> â¢ removed non working "browse files..." buttons from bluetooth settings/indicator
<seb128> â¢ webkitgtk 2.4.11 bugfix update+SRU
<seb128> â¢ backported u-s-d fix for keyboard backlight status on login
<seb128> â¢ some snappy discussions
<seb128> â¢ triaging of incoming launchpad/errors reports
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> - short week (monday was holiday here)
<Sweet5hark> - some upstream mentoring/codereview for GSoC work on my hometurf
<Sweet5hark> - work on snapcrafting 5.2 alpha
<Sweet5hark> - still/again seeing weird linking/header foo with building NSS => investigating
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> please let me have your update TheMuso, unless I've deleted by accident
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<willcooke> - Google Summer of Code 2016: Guide students to get started with their projects
<willcooke> - lsb package: Re-introduced the LSB compatibility binary packages Ubuntu-only to fix incompatibility of Ubuntu 16.04 with Epson's printer drivers (bug 1536353).
<willcooke> - cups-browsed: Adding debug log file generation to more easily investigate bugs, especially problems during system boot and shutdown, like bug 1579905.
<willcooke> - Bugs.
<ubot5> bug 1536353 in lsb (Ubuntu) "[regression] Printer drivers install is broken as lsb package is not available anymore" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536353
<ubot5> bug 1579905 in cups (Ubuntu) "cups-browsed causes shutdown hang/delay in Ubuntu 16.04" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579905
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: Trevinho
<Trevinho> Â· New landing for bamf, compiz, unity, unity settins daemon
<Trevinho> Â· Created xenial branches for bamf, compiz, unity, u-s-d
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed build failures for unity in yakkety
<Trevinho> Â· Reviews for lots of compiz community contributions (yay!) and unity
<Trevinho> Â· New unity upstream release 7.4.0 is out (compiz will follow soon)
<Trevinho> Â· u-s-d improvements for keyboard backlight support
<Trevinho> Â· UPower patch for getting proper keyboard brightness, instead of the cached one
<Trevinho> Â· Built a small snapcraft build plugin to make possible to patch upstream code
<Trevinho> Â· Made hello-unity snap working, making building of gtk/gdk/minecaches dynamic on first start
<Trevinho> Â· Snapcrafted a simple electron app (working only unconfined, for now)
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed two crashes in unity7
<Trevinho> Â· Preapared PPAs for gnome-terminal and emacs windows restoration fix.
<Trevinho>  /EOF
<willcooke> BOOM!
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - GNOME package updates / filing bugs with excuses
<willcooke> - Fix up versions page [1] to track correct versions
<willcooke> - Paid snap work
<willcooke> #topic willcooke
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: willcooke
<willcooke> Unprepared...
<willcooke> Make tabs bug SRU compliant
<willcooke> Helped fix missing speaker icon
<willcooke> #Politics
<seb128> willcooke, was the [1] from robert_ancell pointing to some url?
<willcooke> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html
<willcooke> seb128, sorry
<willcooke> erm, can't remember what else, sorry, have to leave in a second
<willcooke> oh, worked with recruitment to get them up to speed on the hires
<willcooke> Laney helped with the JD so we will start getting CVs soon
<willcooke> \o/
<seb128> sorry, I didn't managed to reply to that today, got caught up with backlog and meetings
<seb128> on my list for tomorrow
<willcooke> seb128, no worries
<willcooke> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-17 | Current topic: Any Other Business
<seb128> I'm trusting Laney for giving good feedback though ;-)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> anyone got bidnezz?
<willcooke> going
<willcooke> going
<willcooke> gone
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 17 15:48:19 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2016/ubuntu-desktop.2016-05-17-15.31.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks everyone
<seb128> thanks!
<willcooke> Got to go out now, but telegram if I can help with anything
<seb128> have fun!
<Laney> you can help me get a 99 flake
<willcooke> Laney, from the ice cream man, or a fake one from the supermarket
<willcooke> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=251821479
<Laney> hah
<Laney> my browser won't even load tesco's css
 * Laney high fives firefox
<Laney> waitrose.com works though :) :) :) :)
<willcooke> :D
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: are JDs online? if so, do you have a link?
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, not online yet, probably tomorrow
<willcooke> will send you a link
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: awesome, thanks!
<Laney> ah the fun of an initial offlineimap sync
<seb128> happyaron, hum, was https://launchpad.net/~happyaron/+archive/ubuntu/network-manager were you had the 1.2.2 update ready? did you superseed it with another update? also did you do the other sources, gnome/vpn/...?
<seb128> happyaron, also why did you rename patches? need to undo that for the SRU or the diff is going to be harder to review
<happyaron> seb128: will maintain a seperate branch for xential SRU, in yakkety I switched to use gbp-pq to manage the patch queue
<happyaron> seb128: https://launchpad.net/~happyaron/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+sourcepub/6431454/+listing-archive-extra
<seb128> happyaron, is debian using that?
<seb128> or is that increasing diff?
<seb128> I never use gbp so I can't comment on how much of a win that is
<mitya57> The -gnome part of the new NM is the most interesting because upstream integrated our indicator stuff
<happyaron> seb128: plan to sell that, there are quite a lot of projects using gbp-pq in debian though
<seb128> mitya57, that's already true in 1.2.0 no?
<seb128> happyaron, ok, you are maintaining it so your call ... do you have updates for -gnome/vpn/etc? ;-) I guess nm 1.2.2 works fine with the others still being on 1.2.0/you are testing that?
<happyaron> seb128: it's basically the same diffs, but managed by git patch queues
<mitya57> Oh yes, I missed that we already have 1.2.0 :)
<happyaron> seb128: will update most of them by this weekend
<seb128> mitya57, :-)
<seb128> happyaron, thanks, just to confirm you tested n-m 1.2.2 with applet 1.2.0 and it works right? good to upload? ;-)
<happyaron> yes that works
<seb128> happyaron, good, I'm sponsoring it, thanks for the work! when you update -gnome please backport the commit I pointed earlier ;-)
<happyaron> no problem
<happyaron> time to bed, cy
<seb128> happyaron, night!
<Trevinho> pitti: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95457 I've pinged also hughsie about that
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 95457 in general "KbdBacklight.GetBrightness always returns the cached value for keyboards with hardwired controls" [Normal,New]
<Laney> nn!
<seb128> Laney, have a good evening!
<seb128> other desktopers as well ;-)
<seb128> time for dinner and sport here
<cinch> where can i find a kernel for 16.04 with the BFQ scheduler?
<cinch> the "ck" patchset
<sarnold> cinch: I don't think I've seen any ppas for it; I think if you want it you have to build it yourself
<cinch> hmm ok
<cinch> i think ill try other things first
<cinch> im concerned with latency on the desktop, alt+tab takes awhile compared to windows 10
<cinch> using ubuntu mate with the default software compositor
<cinch> and in general its not as "snappy"
<sarnold> I would seriously hope alt-tab doesn't need to hit the disk :)
<cinch>  :-D
<sarnold> if it does there are problems elsewhere that need addressing rather than whatever IO scheduler is in use :)
<cinch> yeah
<cinch> firefox has screen tearing when i scroll..
<cinch> using the non_gnu Nvidia driver
<cinch> oh well, linux woes as usual ;)
<cinch> interestingly, on my old thinkpad x200s it's super snappy
<cinch> with intel on board graphics, core 2 duo
<cinch> but this monster core i5 2500k with a nvidia gtx 760 has issues :P
<cinch> i solved it: -> in "Mate Tweak" -> change the window manager to compiz
<cinch> easy :-)
<sarnold> yeah, my intel onboard on my ~3.5 year old laptop is super-snappy doing virtual desktop changes, no tearing with firefox scrolling, etc., but I understand newer intel drivers don't have the quality of the old intel drivers :( and what with their recent "lay off ALL the employees" binge, it's hard to imagine their driver quality improving :(
<sarnold> hah, nice
<cinch> oh i didnt know that about newer intel drivers
<cinch> they layed off alot of workers
<cinch> now i just need to get reliable suspend/resume
<cinch> when i suspend, the monitor doesnt go into standby
<cinch> d'oh compiz crashed :)
<cinch> let's say i want to log each process that was started (with its command line parameters), how would i go about it
<sarnold> cinch: you've got a few choices here :) auditctl should be able to log executions, but it may not get arguments; old-school unix process accounting should also be able to get e.g. summaries of executions _after_ the processes have exited; the execsnoop program from https://github.com/iovisor/bcc can give you exactly what you wanted, but it's not in the archive so it requires a bit more work to install it and use it
<cinch> sarnold, tyvm
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-18
<tjaalton> robert_ancell: hi, did you notice the xmir patch reviews? 1.19 might get branched soon
<robert_ancell> tjaalton, yeah, haven't got around to replying yet
<tjaalton> ah, ok
<tjaalton> guess smooth scrolling can be added later
<robert_ancell> There's lots of stuff that can be added later! :)
<tjaalton> hehe
<duflu> tjaalton: Smooth scrolling or smooth scrolling? :)  One is to animate smoothly between coarse steps (like we do in Unity7 Firefox and now Chrome). The other is proper smooth scrolling using the full touchpad resolution. I'm still chasing anpok to find out if that's a bug in libinput/Mir or a missing feature. Once we've confirmed the backend for proper smooth scrolling is working in Mir I'll be keen to see everything above Mir use it
<tjaalton> duflu: the latter, sounds like it should be implemented on the wayland stack if whot pointed it out on the review. but it shouldn't be a blocker for inclusion
<duflu> tjaalton: By wayland stack you mean libinput?
<duflu> I'm talking about Mir
<tjaalton> yes
<duflu> Cool
<tjaalton> 81a51a6cace6fd in xorg-server git implemented it for xwayland
<tjaalton> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-xorg/xserver/xorg-server.git/commit/?id=d8a39245d6cff6accf5eaeae7a1ac15eb1eb048a
<duflu> tjaalton: Interesting thanks. Sounds like something I might be asked to do
<duflu> Or robert_ancell ....
<robert_ancell> not me
<duflu> But I'm curious to check out the current state of scroll events from Mir of late
<duflu> robert_ancell: OK, I touched it last and implemented the wheel hack anyway
<hikiko> hi
<duflu> Morning hikiko
<pitti> Trevinho: commented on the patch in the upstream bug
<pitti> Good morning
<happyaron> seb128: the bug for ibus appindicator means the upstream implementation
<happyaron> seb128: do we need an FFe if we would SRU to xenial? (uploading for yakkety now)
<Laney> hullo
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> one minute earlier this morning!
<pitti> hey larsu!
<pitti> bonjour seb128 aussi !
<seb128> happyaron, unsure if that's something worth a SRU
<seb128> pitti, salut, Ã§a va ?
<pitti> seb128: Ã§a va bien, merci !
<seb128> pitti, wrong l<tab>? ;-)
<seb128> happyaron, where would the indicator be useful?
<pitti> Laney: good morning to you too!
<Laney> stalker!
<pitti> seb128: of course not wrong, just incomplete :)
<Laney> (hi seb128 and pitti!)
<willcooke> hmm
<willcooke> I think there must have been an issue copying my old settings from xchat to hexchat
<willcooke> but why was it only a problem today
<willcooke> the portnumber for the server was totally wrong
<seb128> hey willcooke
 * willcooke strokes his chin suspiciously 
<seb128> how is hexchat?
<willcooke> morning
<seb128> I wonder if I should try that one
<willcooke> it's like xchat, and therefore good :D
<willcooke> seb128, BTW I replaced the wifi card in my X220 with an Intel one. So far so good.
<larsu> morning pitti!
<larsu> and morning desktoppers!
<willcooke> howdy larsu
<andyrock> morning all
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<seb128> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<seb128> hey andyrock!
<Sweet5hark1> heya all
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark1
<seb128> channel wakes up ;-)
<pitti> Sweet5hark1: moin moin!
<pitti> Sweet5hark1: looking at LibO xenial SRU; please upload this to yakkety
<Sweet5hark1> hmmm
 * Sweet5hark1 no upload rights.
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, how is the DMB thing going btw? ;-)
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: ^^ do I need to prep a full yakkety pkg or ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, well, "full"
<Sweet5hark1> dammit, seb128 was faster ...
<seb128> lol
<seb128> just bump the changelog
<seb128> was there anything you wanted to change/enable in y?
<seb128> and let's hope toolchain doesn't bite us :p
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: no, certainly not for 5.1
<pitti> seb128: y has a different package than x, mind you
<pitti>  libreoffice | 1:5.1.2-0ubuntu1     | xenial                   | source
<pitti>  libreoffice | 1:5.1.2-0ubuntu3     | yakkety                  | source
<seb128> doko...
<pitti> so this might need to be a merge
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/256160858/libreoffice_1%3A5.1.2-0ubuntu1_1%3A5.1.2-0ubuntu3.diff.gz
<seb128> can you merge that and bump changelog?
<seb128> and go doko for doing changes undocumented in the changelog
<seb128> -               g++-5 [hppa ia64 s390 sparc],
<seb128> +               g++-6.0 [hppa ia64 s390 sparc],
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: yep. the merge seems reasonable
<pitti> this is a no-op
<pitti> we don't have any of these arches
<larsu> seb128: I'm great thanks! Just back from the gym :)
<pitti> unless this is a typo and was meant to be s390x
<larsu> seb128: how are you? Did you enjoy the long weekend?
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: thats ~unavoidable, I guess. Its just control being regenerated (with ./debian/rules control) on yakkety ...
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: ... but it means I also need to regen control on yakkety and thus setup my yakkety pbuilder env  etc.
<seb128> larsu, I'm good thanks, yeah it was quite relaxing! (though would have been better with the weather from a week ago)
<larsu> heh yeah same here. Getting better today though
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, is that much work?
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: nah, just some script-foo and I have to do it anyway at some point for the 5.2 builds ..
<pitti> Sweet5hark1: good opportunity to move to sbuild? :-)
<Sweet5hark1> pitti: maybe ... though I dont see anything of the pbuild foo anyway. Its wrapped by some helper I wrote in C++11 and _that_ is running in a Jenkins.
<Sweet5hark1> "Any problem in computer science can be solved with another layer of indirection. But that usually will create another problem." -- David Wheeler
<pitti> Sweet5hark1: more like "two more problems" :)
<pitti> think exponentially!
<Sweet5hark1> also called Jenga-driven development. I bring experience fromLO!
<pitti> hah, I like that
<pitti> Jenkins for sure felt like Jenga
<seb128> wooot
<seb128> thanks pitti for the SRU reviews ;-)
<seb128> (assuming it's you)
<pitti> seb128: yes, it is
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * pitti hugs you back :)
<seb128> pitti, btw we should perhaps copy that accountsservice updates-regression-fix over now? bdmurray didn't want to do it on friday because too risky to copy things on friday
<pitti> seb128: oh, absolutely; I thought this was a no-brainer
<seb128> he said he would do it on monday
<seb128> but apparently didn't...
<pitti> seb128: u-settings-daemon needs a yakkety upload in bug 1510344
<ubot5> bug 1510344 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Keyboard Backlight Turns on at boot" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1510344
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I plan to do a landing this week, just want to include a bit more
<seb128> trying to get to it today
<seb128> I need to check with Trevinho as well
<seb128> he mentioned that he was going to do a landing as well
<seb128> we should try to not conflict ;-)
<pitti> seb128: accountsservice released
<seb128> dankie!
<seb128> -i
<seb128> pitti, did you block libreoffice on the y-upload to be sorted out?
<pitti> Laney: not a fan of dropping glib-networking-dbg in an SRU
<pitti> Laney: rejected for this, as we don't have a proper upgrade path for this
<pitti> seb128: for now, yes; is this urgent?
<seb128> pitti, no, it's just that usually nobody wants to review libreoffice, we had a 0day SRU in wily fixing release issues, it's still in the queue...
<seb128> just trying to make sure that doesn't happen again
<pitti> well, I did look at the patch
<seb128> not blaming anyone, libreoffice is big and the diffs are not easy to review
<pitti> but we can't copy it to yakkety (and shouldn't either), and I don't want this to be forgotten
<seb128> we should perhaps get it under a microrelease exception
<pitti> there are no package specific MREs any more
<seb128> maybe there should be :-)
<pitti> LibO has a fairly good QA upstream, and has build and autopkgtest-time tests
<pitti> and stable microeleases
<pitti> which is by and large what the requirements are
<pitti> and also, the SRU by itself is fine
<seb128> k
<pitti> so this isn't about the SRU, it's about "devel first"
<seb128> pitti, unsure where to ask but I would like to understand what happened with https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/wily/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=libreoffice
<seb128> not blaming you
<seb128> the SRU team has no mailing list right?
<pitti> seb128: i. e. what did *not* happen?
<pitti> right, no ML
<seb128> that was a bugfix update uploaded before release to fix release issues
<seb128> how come we got through a full cycle with nobody reviewing it?
<seb128> and how do we make sure that doesn't happen again
<Laney> pitti: meh, fine
<seb128> pitti, do you have any idea what would be the right place for that discussion?
<pitti> seb128: u-devel@ I guess
<seb128> I wonder if that's TB material
<pitti> or u-release@
<seb128> "make the SRU team accountable"
<seb128> pitti, I've a feeling it's going to end up as "nobody felt like reviewing it"
<pitti> TBH, so far I didn't even make it to queues older than xenial
<seb128> yeah, as said not blaming you
<pitti> (I'm not really on a roster, I've just been helping out after the release)
<seb128> I think it's more of an issue of how our teams are set up
<pitti> but that's the root cause -- we don't have a roster
<pitti> everyone is busy with other stuff
<seb128> right
<pitti> similar to sponsoring, +1maint, etc.
<seb128> but even the roster wouldn't help
<Laney> it's been tried
<Laney> they always fall down
<seb128> if people feel like libreoffice is too big and don't want to review it and keep skipping over it
<pitti> I've spent about 1.5 h every day on SRU stuff recently, and it's massively getting boring indeed
<pitti> or more precisely, the daily IRC pings pretty much always trump such regular things
<seb128> imho we need somebody "in charge"
<seb128> who at least try to organize the team efforts
<seb128> and try to nag people to help a bit when things are behind
<seb128> and make sure nothing gets forgotten
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: or, if you want to be _really_ evil: give it a deadline with default approval: "If after 90 days, nobody rejected it, then you all approved it implicitly.".
 * Sweet5hark1 hides
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, did you ever get anyone pinging you about that one/asking for details or things to be explained/fixed?
<Sweet5hark1> about wily? not that I remember, no.
<seb128> ok, thanks
<seb128> going to write than email to -devel then
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: FWIW, I didnt pressure there anymore, and rather cared about having up-to-date stuff ready in the PPA, so that if anyone is asking for a SRU (or when we need a security update) I have my ducks in a row.
<seb128> yeah, having to ping them shouldn't be required though
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, don't forget about mdds
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: huh?
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, just in case this is still needed https://paste.debian.net/plain/687015
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, mdds-1.0 is not compatible with 5.1's buildsys
<duflu> pitti: Jenga is a fun analogy. So is kicking the robot dog (named Jenkins)
<duflu> Although that's strangely a nasty thing to say
<duflu> On an unrelated note: Thank you pitti and seb128 for chasing the upower issue
<alexarnaud_> Hello all!
<seb128> duflu, hey, yw!
<seb128> hey alexarnaud_
<seb128> duflu, is your base issue also that upower start is delayed then? do you know if that's the same usb enumeration delay than others mentioned?
<alexarnaud_> Trevinho: Hey ! I've noticed somehting strange in Compiz. When I install Compiz build-dep, especially libmetacity-dev, when I restart Compiz the gtk window decorator doesn't work. I'm using Mate. The error message is about a GSettings key "theme" that is not found. Is a known issue? Is a human error?
<duflu> seb128: Not sure but I don't have the same USB devices others describe.
<alexarnaud_> seb128: how are you?
<seb128> alexarnaud_, I'm good thanks, how are you?
<seb128> duflu, can you check if upower is delayed on your machine though? look at syslog for eventual issues on that side?
<duflu> seb128: The machine does not exist. It's running 14.04 till the bug is fixed :(
<duflu> Sorry, it's both my main server and the only machine that has the bug
<duflu> Very inconvenient
<seb128> duflu, you didn't keep any syslog or such from the boot you tried by any chance?
<duflu> seb128: No, it was the end of a long weekend and I was in a mad rush to restore 14.04 after the problems so I could get back to work the next day
<seb128> I see
<seb128> was u-s-d segfaulting the only issue? did you try to restart manually back then?
<seb128> most reporters seem to suggest that restarting it after upower is done loading works fine
<seb128> reinstalling seems like a big hammer in that case ;-)
<duflu> seb128: Sorry, I didn't try anything else. I was rushed
<seb128> k
<seb128> no worry
<duflu> seb128: Not a big hammer, just a HDD swap
<alexarnaud_> seb128: good, we have made a huge work on improving Compiz accessibility with lot of work on EZoom :), we have integrated focus tracking and some visual improvment. Do you think you (Canonical) could help us to improve accessibility of the switcher plug-in? We would like to have capability to change the size of elements (icons, text, background) to be readable for low vision people. Unfortunately we have just o
<alexarnaud_> We focus on EZoom and Mouse Poll plug-ins.
<seb128> alexarnaud_, your line cut at "Unfortunately we have just o"
<seb128> unsure how much resources we have to help on that
<seb128> we can probably help with some advices/reviews
<seb128> but probably not much with coding
<seb128> especially if you are speaking of a switcher which is not the unity one
<alexarnaud_> seb128: I talk about the "Application Switcher" module.
<Sweet5hark1> https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/4jhma7/what_did_you_automate_with_python_scripts/d37clfr <- this is awesome
<willcooke> Laney, can haz email
<Laney> HAX
<willcooke> so it works!
<Laney> I want this offlineimap sync to finish
<Laney> so that I can go back to mutt
<Laney> /o\
<Laney> Copy message 12585 (12585 of 132357) Personal:INBOX.Ubuntu.Launchpad -> lpersonal
<Laney> might take a while though
<pitti> urgh
<Laney> that's after many hours
<Laney> because I so need to keep all this ancient Launchpad mail...
 * pitti never understood why people keep so much email
<Laney> hahaha
<Laney> I usually view unread messages so it's more or less invisible except for times like this
<pitti> well, they still slow down your MUA, syncing, etc?
<Laney> only the initial sync
<Laney> which is because I tranferred mail providers
<pitti> I have 7 MB in my mail folders..
<Laney> oh, nice
<Laney> fastmail has an auto-purge setting
<Laney> I think I'll enable that for some mailboxes
<happyaron> seb128: it will improve kubuntu's experience, but not really interesting enough for unity/gnome
<happyaron> seb128: what do you think then?
<seb128> happyaron, your call as the maintainer, if you are interested in it feel free to SRU, otherwise you can let somebody from the kubuntu team judge if they want it and handle the SRU...
<happyaron> ok
 * Laney eyes offlineimap
<Laney> why is it downloading my whole inbox again...
<pitti> seb128: upower patches landed upstream now
<pitti> they will only help so far, but should at least stop crashing
<seb128> pitti, great, thanks!
<pitti> seb128: I guess I'll toss them in a PPA and ask affected people how it goes?
<seb128> pitti, do we need u-s-d code change to use a new function?
<seb128> pitti, sounds good
<pitti> seb128: no, it stays API compatible, and the ABI change is just that up_client_new() now returns NULL if dbus fails
<pitti> seb128: which should generally perform better, as methods then return default values instaed of crashing
<seb128> great
<pitti> seb128: you *can* now improve error handling by explicitly checking for == NULL
<pitti> (and should too)
<seb128> right
<pitti> but still, if upowerd doesn't work, then data displayed in the UI will be wrong
<pitti> so in the end we still need the kernel fix
<seb128> yeah, no wait out of this
<seb128> no crash but no power management plugin either
<pitti> done
<willcooke> attente, is seb128's video flickering green for you?
<seb128> willcooke, no
<attente> willcooke: no
<seb128> sorry, it's not at the  bottom of my own hangout ;-)
<seb128> willcooke, is that only me?
<willcooke> yeah
<attente> willcooke: seb is looking a bit pale though
<attente> :P
<willcooke> and now it's stopped
<seb128> needs summer!
<willcooke> very suspicious
<alexarnaud_> seb128: is it possible to pay Canonica to make development on Compiz? If yes, which one we should contact for that ?
<seb128> willcooke, ^
<willcooke> alexarnaud_, drop me an email will.cooke@canonical.com - but on the whole, that's not something we offer.  Sorry
<a1fa> andrea, you around?
<andyrock> a1fa: is andrea me?
<andyrock> :D
<a1fa> yeah
<a1fa> i finally caught that bug i was telling you
<a1fa> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1582056
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1582056 in unity (Ubuntu) "Switching windows in Unity fails to bring program to foreground" [Undecided,New]
<Trevinho> pitti: hey, thanks for the upower review (I wanted to do something like that, but I didn't want to change too much, but with your OK, I'll fix it)...
<Trevinho> pitti: also, I've seen you've SRUed gnome-session, could you do the same for upstart that is linked to the same bug 1433013?
<ubot5> bug 1433013 in upstart (Ubuntu Trusty) "Super -> exec vs Alt-F2 -> exec have different environment" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1433013
<Trevinho> pitti: also, since we're there... I've some compiz and unity SRUs waiting in the trusty silo, which I've been requested to clear up
<seb128> poor pitti
<seb128> Trevinho, Laney did the gnome-session SRU if I read things correctly
<seb128> pitti just did queue review
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, right....
<Trevinho> seb128: well, I'd like to push upstart, but... Can I just prepare a debdiff and someone sponsor it?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> subscribe sponsors
<seb128> or see if xnox or Laney are interested by helping you
<seb128> see they looked a bit a the changes already
<xnox> upstart -> i am very busy but was hoping to do it by end of week
<xnox> Trevinho, seb128.
<seb128> xnox, thanks!
<Trevinho> xnox: ah, ok... if you want I can prepare a debdiff to make things quicker for you?
<Trevinho> xnox: however, should I just apply the patch to the code or add quilt patches?
<xnox> it should be in upstart bazaar branch.
<xnox> and merged properly.
<xnox> Trevinho, it would be best if you would be on the hook to verify it when it hits xenial.
<xnox> cause i will be away next week.
<Trevinho> xnox: well, it's already in the upstream branch, but I don't see branches for xenial...
<Trevinho> xbox and the SRU should include both lp:~xnox/upstart/lp1433013 and lp:~3v1n0/upstart/activation-proper-dbus-path
<Trevinho> they're both merged and released to yakkety, that's why I just wanted to fix the xenial pkg
<pitti> Trevinho: upower> I think at least for upstream "cleaner" beats "smaller"
<pitti> Trevinho: I didn't upload gnome-session, but I processed the queue; I didn't see an upstart upload there, WDYM?
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-19
<Trevinho> pitti: ah, ok... I think upstart has still to be pushed there... We've unity waiting though: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=unity :)
<duflu> Trevinho: Morning BTW :)
<Trevinho> hey duflu
<Trevinho> pitti: upower patch updated too
<mac3lite> Can anyone here help me with installing drivers for MacBookPro9,1 in Ubuntu 14?
<hikiko> hi
<hikiko> http://askubuntu.com/questions/188040/installing-drivers-for-ubuntu-12-04-on-macbook-pro-9-1-mid-2012-15-inch
<hikiko> mac3lite: ^ i don't have a MacBook but I hope  this helps
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> Trevinho: I didn't accept unity as bug 1568031 isn't fixed in devel yet, see my bug followup from yesterday
<ubot5> bug 1568031 in unity (Ubuntu) "Blurred login page after resume from S3" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568031
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke! und Dir?
<pitti> had a nice basketball game yesterday
<seb128> I'm good thanks ;-)
<seb128> ah, nice
<seb128> and I had fun at tennis :-)
<pitti> seb128: Go sports!
<seb128> :-)
 * pitti remembers that geek T-Shirt: "Go sports! Move that thing there before the others move it here!"
<Laney> hallo
<pitti> hey Laney!
<Laney> el pitti!
<Laney> Â¿cÃ³mo estÃ¡s?
<pitti> Laney: mui bien, gracias !
<seb128> hey Laney!
<Laney> helo seb128, sut wyt ti?
<willcooke> allo guvnor
<seb128> Da iawn
<seb128> Beth amdanoch chi?
<seb128> hoi willcooke
<Laney> Rwy'n dda hefyd. Rydym yn dringo neithiwr ac yna aeth i'r dafarn.
<pitti> Welsh? Or Elvish?
<Laney> Cymraeg!
<seb128> I assumed Welsh
 * seb128 doesn't know Elvish
<seb128> not that I know welsh, but google to the rescue :p
<Laney> skillz
<ksamak> Trevinho: hey! how's that 0.9.12.3 idea/milestone going?
<ksamak> just pinging ;-)
<seb128> happyaron, hey! how are the n-m updates going? -applet should be easy, do you know if we can SRU 1.2.2 on top of n-m 1.2.0? like not block that on the n-m update which is a bit more complex (also would be nice to backport the commit for the bug I just assigned to you)
<happyaron> seb128: doing the patch rebasing right now
<seb128> great, thanks
<seb128> also did you see that p_itti found some issues with the openvpn SRU?
<happyaron> we can SRU 1.2.2 on top of n-m 1.2.0, tested working
<seb128> great
<happyaron> I've read the email but not looked at it yet
<seb128> happyaron, could you try to  include the 3 commits from https://git.gnome.org/browse/network-manager-applet/log/?h=nma-1-2 as well? at least the key and the assert one are reported in launchpad
<happyaron> will do
<seb128> thanks
<ara> seb128, shall we mark the unity-greeter task of this bug as Invalid and/or Fix released? https://bugs.launchpad.net/oem-priority/+bug/1286878
<hikiko> Trevinho, https://code.launchpad.net/~hikiko/unity/unity.panel-draw-optimisation/+merge/295187 could you get a look at this when you have a moment?
<seb128> ara, yes, invalid sounds about right
<willcooke> how is it 1230 already
<willcooke> damn it
<Sweet5hark> does errors.ubuntu.com autofile launchpad issues now?
<Laney> nope
<Laney> you get a link to do it
<Sweet5hark> so someone is triggering that, and I dont know who because in launchpad its just "the errors.u.c bridge"?
<Laney> yep
<Sweet5hark> *grumble*
<Trevinho> hikiko: sure
<hikiko> thank you
<seb128> Sweet5hark, bdmurray tend to click on the "file a bug" column
<seb128> Sweet5hark, you can see who did it by who is subscribed
<seb128> the interface subscribe whoever clicked the button
<Sweet5hark> seb128: ah! thx
<seb128> yw!
<Laney> cunning
<Trevinho> hikiko: is that case happening?  I mean, did you see cases where a panel tries to radraw an area which doesns't belong to its monitor as well?
<hikiko> yes
<hikiko> in ezoom
<Trevinho> Since panel geo should be already be the only covering the monitor... but...
<Trevinho> hikiko: maybe wehe blurred doo?
<Trevinho> too?
<Trevinho> ah, right.....
<hikiko> it is clipped correctly on its monitor by compiz
<hikiko> but not from nux
<hikiko> compiz clips anything is not part of the output
<Sweet5hark> cant help being reminded of Laneys Cymraeg in the morning: https://twitter.com/isotopp/status/733261132194971648 ...
<Trevinho> hikiko: I see... do you think it would be better to do this at nux level then? Although I don't think nux views have any clue of which monitor they belong to
<Trevinho> I know we should really have done an UnityView and always uset that as base calss more than the pure nux::View :-/
<hikiko> Trevinho, I am trying to solve it there too
<Trevinho> hikiko: nice, looks good though
<Trevinho> hikiko: I was wondering if you have other unity ezoom branches, in that case, please, let's keep things connected in some way (even a list), so when SRUing it, we can be sure we backport everything
<hikiko> I put the changes that I am sure that are needed in .EZ branches but I have 2 local branches here where I experiment with nux etc at the end I will only propose the EZ
<Trevinho> ok
<Trevinho> seb128: hey, did you get a chance to play with my u-s-d changes?
<seb128> Trevinho, hey! which ones?
<Trevinho> seb128: kbd backlights ones
<seb128> no, I can't, I don't have any hardward with backlight
<seb128> ward->ware
<Trevinho> mh, ok... Laney could probably then :)?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> you need the upower changes to land first though?
<Trevinho> seb128: well, for the first branch, the one that connects to the change event, no
<seb128> well "yes", as I think he has a backlight kbd on his xps, unsure if he has slot for testing your changes
<Trevinho> yeah, I guess he's busy enough
<Laney> quite so, might be able to though
<Laney> but didn't superm_1 already do that?
<Trevinho> seb128: however, probably I should split the bugs... I mean there's that one for the brightness at boot, while my changes mostly affect changes on idle
<seb128> yeah, feel free to open another bug
<Trevinho> so that the proper value is restored when going in idle
<seb128> we are already using the current one for the boot issue
<seb128> which has a SRU in proposed
<Trevinho> yeah
<Trevinho> seb128: I can do the landing of usd with your changes in the mean time btw
<seb128> to what serie? y-?
<Trevinho> yes
<Trevinho> I can also prepare the same for x btw
<seb128> we should do a landing with the pending merge requests
<seb128> well, x already has a SRU
<Trevinho> yeah, that's what I've prepared
<seb128> so let's get that one through first
<seb128> also you shouldn't be able to land u-s-d :p
<Trevinho> I am :-D
<Laney> what
<seb128> Laney, CI train acls are different from archive ones
<Laney> They were supposed to have fixed that
<Laney> It checks the archive's permissions when you try to upload
<seb128> k, maybe that bit doesn't work
<Trevinho> seb128: I've added to https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1419, but if you want to land these, feel free to grab them
<seb128> I don't think Trevinho tried to actually land u-s-d
<seb128> though he does compiz/unity landings
<seb128> Trevinho, you don't have a ppu for those right?
<Laney> apparently it's accepted for "canonical upstream" packages
<Trevinho> No, wait... I don't have permisssions to publish, I still have to be ACKed...
<Laney> always seemed shady to me
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, ppa is linked there
<Laney> but that is the rule
<seb128> Laney, where does it say it's accepted for canonical upstream?
<Laney> dunno where it says
<Laney> code of CI train probably
<seb128> Laney, oh ok, I though you just looked up and found something that it was allowed for canonical upstreams
<seb128> Trevinho, anyway you should apply for ubuntu-desktop maybe?
<Laney> I just know that
<seb128> Laney, ^ wdyt?
<Laney> from dmb discussions
<Laney> umm
<seb128> you didn't do that much desktop updates/packaging
<seb128> but I think you are doing enough that I would be happy to +1 you
<seb128> if not you should at least apply for ppu for the unity stack
<Trevinho> mh... All this bureoacracy always scared me :)
<Trevinho> but I could
<Laney> don't think it is required with ci train given ^ rule
<Trevinho> what should I do?
<Laney> you might have to become a lander though???????????????????
<Laney> ask robru
<Trevinho> I'm a lander, in the sense that i can control ci-train, but I need someone to publish my stuff
<Laney> it might already work for "canonical" things then
<Laney> in terms of ubuntu-desktop: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Developers
<hikiko> grr now the ttys crash in my desktop too :/
<Trevinho> Laney: so it's just about asking in the ML or should I do something like a wiki page^
<Trevinho> ?
<Laney> list is ok
<Trevinho> seb128: anyway, in the mean time, do you want me to remove the MPs from the list, and you care them?
<seb128> Trevinho, can you please remove them?
<seb128> they are not connected to the unity landing in any way
<seb128> you shouldn't batch things that are independant
<seb128> makes harder to land
<Trevinho> seb128: sure... not sure I can remove them from the built ppa though
<seb128> like the bamf menus fix shouldn't be in there either
<seb128> I can do that if you can
<seb128> but if you remove them from the ci UI and reconfigre the silo it's enough
<Trevinho> seb128: in the other side, there's the request of not using many silos since we're going out of them
<Trevinho> seb128: removed, but I don't think I can reconfigrue the silo
<Trevinho> let me se if  "build" is smart enough
<flexiondotorg> Laney, seb128 The work on Ubuntu MATE themes starts tomorrow.
<Laney> Fun
<Laney> I've done a bit on Ambiance already, but it's still crap
<seb128> Trevinho, let me know if you need help pressing buttons
<flexiondotorg> Laney, Link to your work please?
<seb128> Trevinho, also for the ubuntu-desktop application wait a bit, I'm going to check if people are happy to +1 you or if the consensus is that a ppu would be better/or if you need to do some GNOME updates/merges for desktop
<flexiondotorg> I've just uploaded this - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mate-themes/3.18.1-0ubuntu1/+build/9771091
<seb128> Trevinho, I let you know when we figure that out, I don't want to get you to send the email if you don't get the +1 ;-)
<Laney> No link
<flexiondotorg> To prevent the Debian sync of mate-theme 3.20 clobbering Ubuntu.
<Trevinho> seb128: ok, do politics for me :-)
<seb128> right :-)
<Laney> what a great campaign manager
 * Trevinho feels in House of Cards
<seb128> I also need to give some cookies to Sweet5hark for getting him to apply again for libreoffice ppu
<seb128> new board, maybe they are wanting to review that one now
<Laney> speaking of house of cards
<Laney> lunch time
<seb128> Laney, enjoy!
<Trevinho> seb128: I think you've to manually remove the pkg from https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-028
<Trevinho> as I don't see any control in ci-train to get the same
<andyrock> hey guys
<willcooke> hi andyrock
<seb128> hey andyrock!
<seb128> Trevinho, can you try to ask on -ci-eng if that's the right thing to do? I've a feeling that's not the recommended way and might confuse things
<Trevinho> seb128: ok
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> mvo, hey, how are you? can I bother you about update-notifier for a moment? you made the code to determine if we update-manager should be spawned look to logs, why did you look at the ctime and not only the mtime?
<mvo> seb128: I need to look at the code, but iirc for some stuff its only inode changes (touch). anything particular that breaks because of this?
<seb128> mvo, yeah, update-manager is not getting spawned
<seb128> mvo, it was working before by luck because we had a 1 day delay for security updates
<seb128> mvo, logrotate rotates logs on a weekly basis, you added a hack to ignore the 0 byte logs, but the .1 has the ctime of the rotation, so it's never older than a week
<seb128> so "last time launched" nevers get > 7 days
<seb128> -> never showing update-manager
<mvo> seb128: oh, not cool
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> I'm pondering just dropping the log check logic
<mvo> seb128: yeah, fine with me
<seb128> that seems it was controversional at the time it was added already and a bit too magic
<seb128> like if update-manager spaws once a week if updates are available it's not too annoying
<seb128> and command line users can change the gsettings
<mvo> seb128: yeah, lets make it a update-day or something
<mvo> (single day a week)
<seb128> I've seen that somewhere :p
<seb128> mvo, thanks for the input
<mvo> seb128: heh :) thank you!
<seb128> attente, hey, what is "install-via: prefix" doing? (saw your commit on gcalculator)
<attente> seb128: the automake plugin in snapcraft is defaulting to using DESTDIR=blah for installing instead of --prefix
<attente> (and setting prefix to empty)
<seb128> attente, I see, thanks
<attente> so because of that, galculator doesn't know where to find the main_frame.ui file
<attente> seb128: are you looking at this too? i tried to get the fonts working but couldn't figure out what was missing :(
<seb128> attente, no, I didn't, I'm still working on the gnome-calculator one, just followed up the branch because didrocks was having similar issues to ours yesterday and I pointed him to the wrapper we made in Prague
<seb128> attente, what's the issue with fonts?
<attente> just shows black squares for all text
<seb128> urg
<seb128> attente, https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1576303
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1576303 in snapcraft (Ubuntu) "Needs fontconfig integration" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> attente, do you have those in your wrapper?
<seb128> # Not good, needed for fontconfig
<seb128> export XDG_DATA_HOME=$SNAP/usr/share
<seb128> # Font Config
<seb128> export FONTCONFIG_PATH=$SNAP/etc/fonts/config.d
<seb128> export FONTCONFIG_FILE=$SNAP/etc/fonts/fonts.conf
<attente> ah, ok, thanks seb128. i don't have those. desrt suggested it might've been fontconfig, but i had no idea how to get good debugging output for it
<seb128> attente, why not just copying the wrapper we got for gnome-calculator?
<seb128> seems like you are redoing the work we did in Prague?
<attente> where is the wrapper?
<desrt> naughty attente!
<desrt> i thought you had already started there but were experiencing additional difficulties
<desrt> otherwise i would have given you different advice :p
<seb128> attente, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/gnome-calculator-snap/view/head:/calc
<seb128> attente, I hope you didn't spend too much time refiguring those out :-/
<attente> seb128: not too long, thanks i'll try the wrapper
<seb128> attente, are you still in Vancouver with didrocks working on snaps? did they lock you down in a room there? :p
<attente> why is GSETTINGS_SCHEMA_DIR not necessary here? is that based on XDG_DATA_DIRS or something?
<seb128> if they did knock 3 times
<seb128> we will know what it means and try to get out of of here :p
<attente> seb128: :P
<seb128> attente, I think it is, desrt might know better though
<attente> seb128: didrocks is in austin, i'm back home
<seb128> didrocks living a fancy live
<desrt> attente: the schema dir is not needed
<desrt> i think it might have been introduced to try to get that aspect working before realising that xdg-data-dirs works just fine
<desrt> in fact, i think it might have been added to get the 'using memory backend' warning to go away
<seb128> desrt, attente, speaking of which ... what makes gsettings decide to use the memory backend? or how does it check if dconf is available/to be used?
<attente> think you have to stage dconf-gsettings-backend
<desrt> gio extension points
<desrt> basically, glib looks in a designated subdir for gio plugins... things like gvfs, glib-networking, dconf, fam backend, etc.
<desrt> and every time it needs to do [soemthing] that is done differently on different platforms, it picks the extension point with higher priority
<desrt> dconf has a higher priority than the memory backend, so it'll use that if it's there... otherwise, not
<seb128> attente, desrt, thanks, in fact it works ... I though it wasn't, but it's only when confined that it doesn't
<seb128> I wonder what is the confinement blocking that it needs though
 * seb128 looks a bit more
<seb128> oh
<seb128> unable to create file '/run/user/1000/dconf/user': Permission denied.  dconf will not work properly.
<desrt> ya.  this part is pretty obvious.
<seb128> no XDG_RUNTIME_DIR existing in the snap
 * seb128 asks on the snappy channel
<desrt> ya.  this is something that will eventually need to be resolved
<desrt> but it's kinda going to suck
<desrt> we either mount a fresh tmpfs in there for it to use, or we don't... and change all library users of xdg runtime dir to do something else instead
<seb128> do you know how flatpak deal with that?
<desrt> but probably no matter what, we will want that directory
<seb128> do they give you access to the real /run?
<desrt> pretty sure they mount an empty one
<desrt> they give access to subsets of it for the important stuff
<desrt> but no.. certainly not the whole thing
<seb128> k
<desrt> and we would not want to do that
<desrt> a confined app could totally destroy your session by messing around in the xdg runtime dir
<seb128> what does dconf use the dir for?
<desrt> stupid reasons
<desrt> basically, the dconf database in the user's home directory is an rcu file that gets replaced-by-renamed when there is a change
<desrt> there is no way to detect that without doing a syscall, though, and gsettings reads are too fast for that
<desrt> so we put a flag file in the runtime dir and mark it when a change has occurred... each app mmaps that file... so now the check is a single memory location read...
<seb128> ah, I see
<desrt> the "stupid" part is that i did it this way to avoid updating the in-place file in the user's homedir
<desrt> because of....... NFS
<seb128> so it would be safe to bindmount that subdir in a snap/flatpack
<desrt> it was causing SIGBUS in testing...
<desrt> unsafe and pointless
<desrt> applications cannot read from dconf in confinement
<desrt> so having a flag telling them when they need to reopen the database is kinda pointless
<seb128> right
<desrt> unless this is part of the 'can access the entire homedir' profile, in which case, sure
<seb128> but for today where we plug a hole to make gsettings work
<seb128> is there an easy workaround we can do?
<desrt> you need access to the homedir
<desrt> and the xdg runtime dir
<desrt> also: the app needs to have unconfined ability to communicate with the dbus service
<desrt> then ya, it should work
<seb128> k, so we would need to bindmount the xdg runtime dir in the snap?
<seb128> right, they are adding the dconf dbus auth to the unity7 profile
<desrt> honestly, if we bindmount the homedir, the xdg runtime dir should go with it
<desrt> it's basically what you might imagine something like ~/.tmp/ would be
<desrt> ie: a bunch of user-specific sockets for services go there too
<desrt> unity7 profile?
<seb128> desrt, https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/blob/master/interfaces/builtin/unity7.go
<desrt> ah
<desrt> not for unity itself
<desrt> but for apps that run under it
<seb128> yes
<seb128> that's the security profile to use
<seb128> like if you want to start a desktop app under unity7 use that profile
<seb128> it gives access to the dbus interfaces required for appmenu etc to work
<desrt> nod
<seb128> Trevinho, looks like xnox SRUed upstart ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, already tested and verified... Thanks xnox !!!
<seb128> Trevinho, :-)
<seb128> Trevinho, did you manage to get your silo reconfigured without usd btw?
 * Laney screams at pitti 
<pitti> Laney: wut?
<Laney> bos01 died?
<pitti> eww
<pitti> Laney: meeting now, want to have a look?
<pitti> Laney: even "nova list" is hanging
<pitti> Laney: well, I'm still sure it'll come back before armhf catches up :)
<Laney> pitti: pinged IS, but looks cloud-wide indeed
<Laney> cjwatson turned up too ;-)
<seb128> what's the channel for such issues?
<Laney> #is-outage @ canonical or #canonical-sysadmin @ freenode if you can't get to that
<seb128> k, thanks
<seb128> I usually use #is
<seb128> I didn't know about -outage
<Laney> I'm sure that one would work too
<seb128> but since there is no activity on #is I assumed there was some other places
<seb128> yeah, I just wanted to have an eye on the current conversation and was wondering what to join
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<Laney> seb128 has eyes everywhere
<larsu> EVERYWHERE
<larsu> hi desktoppers!
<Laney> http://www.infiniteunknown.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Eye-of-Sauron.png
<seb128> hey Laney!
<seb128> ups
<seb128> hey larsu!
<pitti> seb128, Laney: I always feel like getting the NSA right on my tail when I /join #is
<larsu> Laney: that's just one eye....
<larsu> bonjour seb128!
<Laney> RAIE
<Laney> hi larsu
<Laney> pitti: hah
<larsu> hey Laney!
<Laney> what is the good word?
<larsu> pain au chocolat?
<Laney> TrdelnÃ­k
<larsu> ?
<Laney> ask attente
<larsu> hi attente!
<Laney> I always type "libpease" instead of "libpeas"
<Laney> what is this
<larsu> libpeace
<attente> larsu: hey :)
<larsu> what's TrdelnÃ­k?
<attente> larsu: it's the czech equivalent of a churro. but bigger. and messier. and just as delicious :)
<larsu> ooooh
 * larsu brb, going to czech
<attente> :)
<flexiondotorg> Laney, seb128 Is gnome-panel.css actually used by Ubuntu?
<flexiondotorg> It share the same widgets with mate-panel, we are considering flattening this styling into one place.
<Laney> If you use gnome-panel with Ambiance/Radiance, sure
<seb128> could be by users of the gnome classic/fallback sessions
<flexiondotorg> Laney, seb128 OK, what I thought. So combining this style in one place it not an issue providing gnome-panel support is retained?
<flexiondotorg> We are putting MATE specific stuff in mate-applications.css
<Laney> Seems fine to me
<seb128> happyaron, is that nm-applet going anywhere?
<Laney> see you
<seb128> Laney, have a good evening!
<a1fa> andyrock: yellow
<andyrock> a1fa: hey
<a1fa> how is it going? have you seen the bug i posted the other day
<andyrock> a1fa: nope
<andyrock> can you relink?
<a1fa> yep
<a1fa> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1582056
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1582056 in unity (Ubuntu) "Switching windows in Unity fails to bring program to foreground" [Undecided,New]
<a1fa> this one was, well been bugging me since 14.04 :)
<andyrock> yeah show desktop is broken in several ways
<andyrock> i'll try to allocate some of my time on it
<willcooke> night all
<seb128> I've updated https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/gnome-calculator-snap inspired by Trevinho's work on hello-unity
<seb128> no static cache preincluded, dynamic arch definition, some extra variables defined
<seb128> Trevinho, thanks for the work btw ;-)
<seb128> on that note, dinner, have a good evening desktopers!
<Trevinho> seb128: nice to hear
<Trevinho> seb128: i wanted to do it too
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-20
<a1fa> andyrock: +1 nice!
<Trevinho> pitti: patch updated again.
<hikiko> hi
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<seb128> hey pitti, happy friday!
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> and to you! I'm fine, thanks, how about yourself?
<pitti> whoa, where did all my armhf boxes go
<seb128> I'm good thanks ;-)
<seb128> happyaron, hey!
<happyaron> seb128: hi
<seb128> happyaron, how are you? happy friday!
<happyaron> great, :)
<seb128> happyaron, how are those nm updates going? ;-)
<happyaron> met a problem on rebasing the policy patches to nm 1.2.2, still working on that
<seb128> k
<seb128> maybe it would make sense to do the -gnome update first?
<seb128> it fixes some issues and should be more trivial
<happyaron> yep I meant the applet package
<seb128> oh well, we are not going to SRU things on friday and it's almost w.e time for you
<seb128> oh, right, stupid me, 1.2.2 was already uploaded to y- :p
<happyaron> already done the merge with nm itself
<happyaron> :)
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> I'm not fully awake yet it seems ;-)
<happyaron> haha
<seb128> happyaron, k, let me know if you need help with something
<happyaron> ty
<seb128> time for a coffee break, bbiab
<Laney> morning
<Laney> it's fririririrday
<willcooke> morning
<willcooke> appstreamcli is using 100% CPU this morning
<davmor2> Morning willcooke
<seb128> hey Laney, willcooke
<seb128> happy friday!
<seb128> how are you?
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> Ready for a weekend
<seb128> willcooke, do you use it manually? or are we spawning that command in bg?
<willcooke> seb128, must be running it in the bg
<seb128> hum, k
<willcooke> I killed it, but...
<willcooke> ay 20 09:10:50 malfunctioning-eddie sudo: pam_ecryptfs: pam_sm_authenticate: /home/will is already mounted
<willcooke> May 20 09:10:50 malfunctioning-eddie org.debian.apt[955]: Terminated
<willcooke> May 20 09:10:50 malfunctioning-eddie gnome-session[1981]: (gnome-software:2122): Gs-WARNING **: failed to call gs_plugin_refresh on apt: apt transaction returned result exit-failed
<willcooke> May 20 09:10:50 malfunctioning-eddie AptDaemon.Worker: INFO: Finished transaction /org/debian/apt/transaction/09c0faa447d24743841046c745027e17
<willcooke> May 20 09:10:50 malfunctioning-eddie org.debian.apt[955]: 09:10:50 AptDaemon.Worker [INFO]: Finished transaction /org/debian/apt/transaction/09c0faa447d24743841046c745027e17
<willcooke> May 20 09:10:50 malfunctioning-eddie gnome-session[1981]: (gnome-software:2122): Gs-WARNING **: failed to get updates: no results to show
<willcooke> smells like this:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/appstream/+bug/1583845
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1579712 in appstream (Ubuntu Xenial) "duplicate for #1583845 Refresh hangs indefinitely, appstreamcli using 100% CPU" [High,Fix committed]
<willcooke> so might have been my internet connection crapping out for a moment
<willcooke> correction, this:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/appstream/+bug/1579712
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1579712 in appstream (Ubuntu Xenial) "Refresh hangs indefinitely, appstreamcli using 100% CPU" [High,Fix committed]
<willcooke> which is fixed
<willcooke> in proposed
<andyrock> morning all
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<seb128> hey andyrock, happy friday!
<seb128> willcooke, if you can reproduce you might want to verify the SRU ;-)
<andyrock> seb128: hehe :D
<Laney> hey seb128 & willcooke & andyrock
<seb128> willcooke, though it seems that bug got enough users verifying it
<willcooke> seb128, I think so.  Just trying to recreate it now
 * willcooke eyes the dropbox repo
<willcooke> hrm, not that
<willcooke> ah, backports
<willcooke> strange
<seb128> that's what others say on the bug as well
<willcooke> yeah, just seen that
<seb128> I wonder if something changed
<seb128> because it's several people who have issues with backports today
<willcooke> this could be an issue for upgrading then
<seb128> does it block the apt index refresh for ever?.
<seb128> in which case it indeed a problem
<willcooke> seb128, running it manually now, let's see...
<willcooke> sudo appstreamcli refresh --verbose --details --force
<willcooke> ** (appstreamcli:5082): DEBUG: Refreshing AppStream cache
<willcooke> ** (appstreamcli:5082): DEBUG: Reading: /usr/share/app-info/xmls/org.freedesktop.fwupd.xml
<willcooke> ** (appstreamcli:5082): DEBUG: Reading: /var/lib/app-info/yaml/gb.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_xenial-backports_main_dep11_Components-amd64.yml.gz
<willcooke> ** (appstreamcli:5082): DEBUG: Reading: /var/lib/app-info/yaml/gb.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_xenial-backports_restricted_dep11_Components-amd64.yml.gz
<Laney> debugging a fixed bug?
<willcooke> Laney, issue is that I wont get the fix because appstream cli hangs forever(?)
<seb128> Laney, no, trying to reproduce to verify the SRU fix
<seb128> Laney, also wondering how we get the fix to users if the bug prevent them to get updates
<Laney> release it
<seb128> well, still
<seb128> if they can't apt-get update
<seb128> their apt is never going to list the update
<seb128> no?
<seb128> so they are never going to see/be able to get it
<Laney> you prevent updaters from getting it
<seb128> you mean?
<seb128> well, if people running release can't refresh their package index due to it, how do they get the fix?
<Laney> If you release it then nobody new will get the bug
<Laney> Don't knwo
<seb128> I was wondering if there is a specific issue with backports that triggers the bug
<Laney> I doubt it
<Laney> they are empty of appstream
<seb128> k, just seemed a weird coincidence that several people mention backports as being an issue today
<Laney> Maybe it's an interaction with something else
<seb128> like there are some on the bugs, willcooke and jtaylor on #ubuntu-devel
<Laney> It doesn't mean it's backports itself
<seb128> but yeah, the SRU is 7 days old and verified
<seb128> need SRU team to copy it over
<Laney> Someone who has the bug could find out why
<Laney> and then we might be able to manipulate the appstream data somehow
<Laney> Otherwise, if it just started today, get the SRU out there
<seb128> well those comments on the bug suggest that disabling backport "fixes" it
<seb128> pitti, ^ can you get the xenial appstream SRU copied over to updates?
<Laney> That doesn't help for an apt update
<pitti> seb128: can do; I'm normally not doing SRU releases on Friday, but if that's safe, sure
<seb128> pitti, well see backlog
<seb128> pitti, we are concerned that the bug hits more users and block them to get updates
<pitti> bug 1574896 isn't verified yet
<ubot5> bug 1574896 in appstream (Ubuntu Xenial) "appstreamcli: double free or corruption with certain metadata" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574896
<seb128> including the fix
<pitti> but I suppose that's ok -- most importantly it shouldn't regress
<Laney> looks v-done to me
<Laney> but very recently so maybe the report didn't refresh
<pitti> right
<pitti> released
<seb128> pitti, tahnks
<Laney> merci
<seb128> Laney, I don't understand your " That doesn't help for an apt update" comment
<seb128> btw I can confirm here
<Laney> You can't make 'update' disable backports
<seb128> right, that's not what I meant
<seb128> just that backport creates the issue
<seb128> confirmed here, enabling backport and I can't finish an apt-get update now
<seb128> :-/
<seb128> disabling and it's good again
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/16517854/
<Laney> backports is empty
<seb128> maybe that's what confuses it?
<Laney> It's always been empty
<seb128> in which case unsure why it started today :-/
<Laney> That's what I'm asking to find out :-)
<Laney> main was published yesterday so maybe that did something
<seb128> unsure how to debug that, but you probably can if you want, just enable backport with the xenial version and try to refresh apt :p
<Laney> I have that enabled and it works :(
<seb128> you don't have the SRU version?
<Laney> 0.9.4-1
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> mirror is still refreshing
<Laney> maybe when that finishes it starts
<willcooke> ahh, Laney has a local mirror
<seb128> that's cheating :p
<Laney> otherwise go gdb for you
<seb128> disable your mirror and see if you get it?
<seb128> I'm happy to help debugging
<seb128> but I've no knowledge of the codebase/project
<Laney> could get a trace though
<seb128> so learning curve is going to take some time
<seb128> yeah, that's easy
<seb128> let me do it
<willcooke> is this anything?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/16517887/
 * willcooke is trying to work gdb 
<willcooke> although this is probably just debugging the fixed bug
<Laney> might be able to stop it happening for everyone
<seb128> willcooke, install libappstream3-dbgsym for bonus points
<seb128> #1  0xb732d998 in as_yamldata_parse_distro_data (ydt=0x9c72290 [AsYAMLData], data=0x9c73f88 "---\nFile: DEP-11\nMediaBaseUrl: http://162.213.33.131/media/restricted\nOrigin: ubuntu-xenial-backports-restricted\nVersion: '0.8'\n\210", error=0xbfef1544) at /build/appstream-XJqxY1/appstream-0.9.4/src/as-yamldata.c:1861
<seb128> seems to stuck there
<Laney> I know how to fix it
<seb128> \o/
<Laney> edit that file and add "Priority: 40" at the bottom
<Laney> see if it fixes it for you
<seb128> let me try that
<Laney> have to do it for all the backports ones
<seb128> Laney, yeah, that works
<seb128> did those files change recently/in which way?
<Laney> backpots/main got a backport
<Laney> which made the file regenerate with a Priority value
<Laney> I guess that tickles the bug
<Laney> waiting for the current run to finish then will make it regenerate for the other components
<seb128> happyaron, do you have a 3g stick or some hardware to have a look to that n-m applet/3g icon issue?
<willcooke> if you don't please get one and expense it
<willcooke> they're not expensive
<seb128> oem team seems to be very eager to see that one moving
<seb128> Dell seems to wait on it
<seb128> happyaron, that should probably be higher importance that the version updates
<seb128> or maybe we can get cyphermox to have a look today
<seb128> I'm pretty sure he has hardware for it
<seb128> shrug, and of course bugzilla.gnome.org is down when I want to upstream it
<willcooke> heh
<davmor2> willcooke, seb128: I noticed that my laptop was spinning up still after a hangout and not calming down turns out appstreamcli is running and using 100%cpu
<willcooke> davmor2, indeed.  known issue.  Fix in the works
<seb128> davmor2, see channel backlog
<seb128> ok, since bugzilla is down and I'm done with what I was looking at let's do early lunch and continue with other things after that
<seb128> bbiab
<davmor2> willcooke, seb128: ah awesome was busy in a meeting so hadn't kept an eye in here :)
<willcooke> l8r seb128
<willcooke> davmor2, nw
<Laney> ok appstream.ubuntu.com is updated
<Laney> the archive should get it soon
<Laney> hmm, or will it
<pitti> Laney: would that affect installs of xenial-release too?
<Laney> yes they have backports by default
<pitti> Laney: I'm currently tryigng to install it into a VM (final image) and it hangs on apt-get update
<Laney> talking in #launchpad about a republish
<pitti> ah, ok
<happyaron> seb128: no I don't have
<willcooke> happyaron, please get one, I think it will be useful
<willcooke> just expense it
<willcooke> I picked up a ZTE MF112 on ebay for < 10 GBP
<happyaron> willcooke: will do, ty
<tjaalton> willcooke: hi, is there someone assigned to work on bug 1417980?
<ubot5> bug 1417980 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Add support for unified Xorg input driver" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1417980
 * willcooke reads
<willcooke> ah, lib input
<willcooke> tjaalton, noone assigned yet, but it's on our list:  https://trello.com/c/4F2urkpx
<tjaalton> willcooke: ok cool, I'm not on trello but good to know :)
<Laney> archive should be fixed now
<willcooke> thanks Laney!
<willcooke> davmor2, and we are fixed! ^
<davmor2> willcooke: we are indeed
<seb128> Laney, good job!
<Laney> blop
<seb128> tjaalton, do we need that to happen? it's on our list but I doubt we are going to get to it this cycle
<seb128> well we might
<seb128> but we have quite some backlog and resources for y "feature" work is limited
<seb128> it's likely going after packagekit 1 and gnome-software improvement and snap work
<davmor2> Laney: what caused the issue in the end and is there a safeguard we can put in place to prevent it happening again?
<seb128> which means I wouldn't count on it
<Laney> the bug is fixed
<seb128> davmor2, I'm unsure appstream has a testsuit/an easy way to create and feed him the config that created the bug to make sure that's not coming back in a futur version, if that's what you ask
<davmor2> seb128: right okay so we could randomly have this happen any time a new package it uploaded then
<seb128> well usually fixed bugs don't reappear
<Laney> The same way you could randomly have a bug in anything
<seb128> but I guess it's a possibility that some future change lead to new bugs
<Laney> This particular bug is fixed
<tjaalton> seb128: ok, kde & gnome will have it in y
<seb128> tjaalton, good for them
<tjaalton> gnome needs to depend on the driver
<seb128> they can deal with the early adopter bugs
<Laney> If you want to contribute a testsuite I'm sure ximion wouldn't say no
<tjaalton> they dropped the old stuff
<tjaalton> debian switched already :)
<seb128> tjaalton, wasn't that already the case in xenial?
<tjaalton> no
<tjaalton> 3.20
<davmor2> seb128, Laney: ah sorry I thought it was just a broken app profile that broke it
<seb128> I though GNOME had dropped !libinput a while ago
<Laney> no
<tjaalton> xenial has 3.18 still
<seb128> tjaalton, ah, they added libinput support a way back but kept the old thing as well, just dropped that in 3.20
<seb128> I see
<tjaalton> yeah
<seb128> thanks for the head up
<seb128> if you want to work on the u-c-c fixes that would be welcome
<seb128> but if you are too busy then back to what I said before
<seb128> it's on the list but low enough that I'm unsure we are going to get to it this cycle
<tjaalton> some of it is in mutter now
<tjaalton> aiui
<seb128> yeah, I expect for us it's going to be u-c-c/u-s-d only
<seb128> I hope at least that there are no compiz changes needed
<tjaalton> right
<Laney> tjaalton: the desktop team is hiring ;-)
<Laney> this is my new troll version of patches welcome
<tjaalton> Laney: hehe :)
<seb128> :-)
<tjaalton> is there any syncing done to u-c-c/u-s-d from upstream=
<tjaalton> ?
<seb128> no
<tjaalton> yeah input config is all in mutter now, so it's not easy to port
<seb128> well nothing regular/organized
<tjaalton> ok
<tjaalton> not that it would help here anyway
<seb128> we do cherrypick changeset and backport fixes
<seb128> in principle those changes shouldn't be too difficult right?
<seb128> change some X calls by others
<tjaalton> maybe
<Trevinho> Laney: hey, could you publish https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1419 ?
<Trevinho> It was blocked by the fact that unity is not built on the s390x again, but I think we need to whitelist this case again for yakkety (who can do that?)
<seb128> Trevinho, why is usd still in there?
<seb128> Laney, pitti, tedg, https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2016-May/msg00005.html ... good timing ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128: is listed, but not in the ppa
<Trevinho> seb128: I did remove that from the list, but there are no packages to land
<seb128> I think the silo needs to be reconfigured
<seb128> you are going to hit an error on publishing
<seb128> it still thinks usd is part of it
<Trevinho> seb128: I've made a build, but nothing changed and sil2100 told us that there was nothing else to do
<Trevinho> let me try to remove it again
<seb128> well, maybe it's going to work
<seb128> but it looks wrong
<Trevinho> seb128: let's see if it works, in case it won't I try to rebuild the whole thing
<Trevinho> seb128: you can publish too?
<seb128> Trevinho, yeah, but unsure about the s390x issue
<seb128> what is that?
<Trevinho> seb128: basically unity never built in that arch, because the nux tests aren't passing in that arch
<Trevinho> when it comes to use X to do some headless tests
<seb128> but https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/7.4.0+16.04.20160415-0ubuntu1 has s390x build/binaries?
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/7.4.0+16.04.20160415-0ubuntu1/+build/9586999
<Trevinho> so, we could maybe try to disable the tests there, but really thre's no need for unity there...
<pitti> seb128: heh yes, I saw that the other day
<seb128> Trevinho, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nux/4.0.8+16.04.20160209-0ubuntu2
<Trevinho> seb128: mh, i see these artifacts http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16520312/
<seb128> Trevinho, when doing what?
<seb128> that seems a shotwell issue?
<Trevinho> seb128: that's in the brightray excuses
<seb128> britney?
<Trevinho> seb128: https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-yakkety-ci-train-ppa-service-landing-028/yakkety/s390x/s/shotwell/20160519_160941@/artifacts.tar.gz
<Trevinho> yeah, sorry :-D
<Trevinho> brightray is something electron related :-D
<seb128> where is the britney page for that silo?
<Trevinho> seb128: https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/static/britney/yakkety/landing-028/excuses.html
<seb128> Trevinho, "s390x: Always failed" so that's not a blocker
<seb128> the issue is that you failed to build on s390x
<seb128> Trevinho, " Missing build dependencies: libupstart-dev "
<Trevinho> seb128: I know, but still I'm getting "red ci-train" which isn't nice :-)
<seb128> on https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-028/+build/9756725
<seb128> somebody retried upstart on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/1.13.2-0ubuntu24
<seb128> oh, no, that seems stalled
<Trevinho> seb128: oh, actually the error on s390x is different from the one I had in the past: "Missing build dependencies: libupstart-dev"
<Trevinho> so it's another thing
<seb128> Trevinho, read what I just said
<seb128> :p
<seb128> see -devel
<seb128> Trevinho, seems like you are blocked on xnox/slangasek to fix upstart build on s390x :-/
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, sorry...
<Trevinho> in the mean time I noticed that there has been another direct push to nux, without ci-train :-/
<seb128> doko, of course
<seb128> feel free to tell him off on #ubuntu-devel
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah... But sil2100 fixed it in the branch... Same happened for compiz in yakkety. I really would lvoe to be notified before doing this.
<Trevinho> ... at least.
<seb128> tell them
<seb128> maybe if we tell them enough it's going to stick at some point
<Laney> um
<Laney> so don't do anything then
<Laney> works for me!
<Laney> just got our poll cards for the referendum
<Laney> shit got real
 * willcooke is worried by how many brexit people he sees on facebook
<Laney> it's because that campaign has a stupid name
<Laney> which is catchy
<Laney> unlike bremain
<seb128> Trevinho, speaking about landing, what's the status of landing the bamf menu fix for xenial?
<Trevinho> seb128: I always waited things to go into devel before preparing SRUs... At least that was the policy I was thought, but I can basically prepare the same silo for X right nwo
<Trevinho> now*
<Trevinho> (almost the same)
<seb128> it's the policy yes
<seb128> but it's ready for y
<seb128> it's just blocked by upstart on s390x
<seb128> I think we can talk the SRU team into taking the xenial upload
<seb128> though probably not today
<seb128> they don't like friday uploads
<seb128> monday is fine
<Laney> they don't release to updates on friday
<Laney> proposed is ok
<Laney> afaik
<seb128> k
<seb128> some SRU team members are a bit conservative with that as well I think
<seb128> but anyway we can get it in the queue
<seb128> when they review it is their business then ;-)
<seb128> Trevinho, also we need to deal better with important issues, that missing menus one should have been more prioritized and probably got its own silo, it doesn't make sense to block it on unity things to get fixed...
<seb128> like we could have landed bamf to fix menus in y and x
<seb128> it's a much easier thing to land than compiz+unity
<Trevinho> seb128: I agree, it's just that the "fix" is probably not complete... And also I got some emails about not using tooo many silos (I had three around, because of trusty SRUs sitting there for months... And really I don't like bothering people about clearing the queue)
<Trevinho> basically I did this: silos with 1,2 sru fixes... but this is not liked.
<seb128> don't bother about that
<seb128> the infra is there to be used
<seb128> if they don't want silo to be stucked they can nag SRU team for reviews
<seb128> I agree we shouldn't abuse silos
<Trevinho> seb128: I'd like to know what's the best way to ping SRU team for reviewing a ci-train branch. Because it seems they don't get properly notified by sync queu elemenents
<seb128> but fixing menus of LTS users is for sure justify using some CI resources
<Trevinho> and they tend to stay there forever
<seb128> they do
<seb128> it's just that the diff are not generated by the queue
<seb128> so they need to go back to ppa, fetch the package, etc
<seb128> more manually work
<seb128> pitti, ^ right?
<seb128> Trevinho, also we don't need to use CI train to land, we can manually upload and merge
<seb128> in fact I did bypass the train for the u-c-c/u-s-d SRUs I did to xenial
<seb128> too much annoyance to use it
<Trevinho> seb128: eh, yeah... you can. But I don't have the powers
<Trevinho> seb128: I would like to use the silo to build, then get someone who can just upload those
<seb128> why do you need the silo to build?
<seb128> well it's going to have a test build/ppa
<seb128> but yeah, we can force merge then and manually dput
<seb128> Trevinho, you should apply for a ppu for the unity stack so you could dput ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128: Ok, let me see... That isn't included if I apply for ~ubuntu-desktop, right?
<seb128> Trevinho,
<seb128> ubuntu-archive-tools/edit-acl query -s unity -S xenial
<seb128> == All uploaders for package 'unity' ==
<seb128> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: archive 'primary', package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in xenial
<seb128> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-core-dev: archive 'primary', component 'main' in xenial
<seb128>  
<seb128> Trevinho, it is in desktop set
<seb128> tjaalton, do you know how to tell if libinput is enable?
<seb128> tjaalton, I'm trying to use the libinput tests and I get "../../src/check_msg.c:80: No messaging setup" errors, unsure why
<Trevinho> seb128: that means that if you can get me in, I don't need the ppu, right?
<seb128> Trevinho, yes, let's see next week
<Trevinho> ok
<Laney> Still think that you could become a lander for unity/compiz/bamf just by talking to sil2100
<Trevinho> sil2100: ^, make me a lander :-)
<seb128> Laney, he can, but we were just saying that we want to not use the train forSRUs maybe
<Trevinho> So i can freely break the desktop experience of everyone without having Laney to be my evil accomplice :-D
<Trevinho> (without know it)
<Laney> k
<tjaalton> seb128: the x driver? from the xorg log
<tjaalton> and basically just installing it means that it's used for mice/touchpads/touchscreens
<seb128> k, any idea why the tests give me that error?
<cyphermox> seb128: get me to look at what?
<seb128> cyphermox, hey
<seb128> cyphermox, bug #1571574
<ubot5> bug 1571574 in OEM Priority Project "3G (WWAN) icon missing in network-manager-applet" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571574
<seb128> oem is nervous about it
<seb128> and nobody in our team seems to currently have hardware
<cyphermox> oh right
<cyphermox> yeah, I suppose that might be broken, lemme try it here real quick
<cyphermox> indeed, it's broke
<seb128> cyphermox, any chance you could try to have a poke to it today?
<cyphermox> that's what I'm doing now, I think I know exactly what's wrong
<seb128> or do you know if I can easily emulate a 3g connection using dbusmock?
<seb128> great
<seb128> cyphermox, beer+=3
<seb128> :-)
<cyphermox> 3?
<cyphermox> is that adjusted to drinker size? ;)
<Laney> one drink per g
<cyphermox> can we go with one mL per g instead?
<Laney> but you're only fixing 3G
<Laney> go for LTE then you can have a little bit more
<cyphermox> it will fix LTE too
<Laney> 4 drinks!
<cyphermox> eep
<cyphermox> OH
<cyphermox> *those* Gs.
<Laney> haha
<cyphermox> I thought you meant the Gs that usually follow ks. :)
<Laney> KO follows too many Gs of C2H5OH
<cyphermox> looks like I had already spent some of this limited brainpower on my internet issues this morning
<cyphermox> Laney: indeed
<cyphermox> that applies to most C**OHs anyway.
<tjaalton> seb128: no idea
<Laney> some funky stuff in there
<seb128> tjaalton, no worry, thanks
<cyphermox> yeah. for instance C12H22O11 gets you diabetes, which will get you KO too
<cyphermox> seb128: ok, fixed it; I'll build to see but it's stuff that was missing upstream from their merge of my indicator patch
<seb128> cyphermox, \o/
<seb128> cyphermox, going to make oem happy, thanks a lot!
<pitti> seb128: silo SRU review> right, takes a bunch of clicks to see the real diff, otherwise the mechanism is the same
<cyphermox> seb128: I raise you https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1583075
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1583075 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Private Key .p12 do not show on selection dialog window" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> pitti, k, what I though
<cyphermox> was just brought up to me by a friend, it looks like p12 is already in the extensions but something else may be amiss
<seb128> cyphermox, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/1575614
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1575614 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "Can't select secret key for TLS auth on wired or wifi connection" [High,In progress]
<seb128> cyphermox, backport https://git.gnome.org/browse/network-manager-applet/commit/?h=nma-1-2&id=037c5721d89b20c46ecc53e05d9867fd4d969412 with your fix
<seb128> happyaron is looking at updating to 1.2.2 and I asked him to backport that
<seb128> but we might want to do an upload with your fix + that
<cyphermox> seb128: ok, 3g signal thing fixed although the icons we ship look like wifi, but that's not new.
<seb128> cyphermox, \o/
<seb128> cyphermox, want to maybe upload to y? we can handle SRU next week
<cyphermox> yeah, I'll upload in a moment, just doing the p12 fix now
<seb128> cyphermox, you saw the commit I pointed?
<seb128> cyphermox, just checking if you "doing" means backporting or redoing :-)
<cyphermox> backporting
<cyphermox> I don't write code if I can avoid it ;)
<ximion> Laney: looks like the strup issue in appstreamcli became a big hit overnight :P
<ximion> not sure which cosmic fluke was responsible for users seeing it now, but fortunately the update is out now
<seb128> tjaalton, just for the record my issue was permissions, need to use sudo
<seb128> ximion, see channel backlog from earlier today if you want some details
<seb128> but seems it was triggered by an update being published to backports
<Laney> fun one
<ximion> seb128: is the backlog stored somewhere?
<Laney> ximion: you get your "broke ubuntu" badge :P
 * ximion wasn't in the channel earlier
<ximion> Laney: I would also need to get a "fixed Ubuntu before he broke it" badge ^^
<seb128> ximion, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/05/20/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t08:53
<seb128> though I guess the discussion doesn't have much details on what Laney did
<ximion> Laney: the priority value triggered it? Weird!
<ximion> previously, no user experienced this bug, and it was in the code for a long time and run by users at Debian ^^
<cyphermox> seb128: fyi: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/networkmanager-list/2016-May/msg00066.html
<seb128> cyphermox, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=766709 btw
<ubot5> Gnome bug 766709 in nm-applet "3G (WWAN) icon missing in network-manager-applet" [Normal,New]
<seb128> I had it forward
<seb128> sorry I didn't mention, but the launchpad bug had the bug watch
<cyphermox> ah, sorry
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks :-)
<cyphermox> I'm updating the bug
<seb128> thanks
<ximion> seb128: thanks!
<ximion> btw, we have an unittest for this bug upstream for a while now :-)
<seb128> davmor2, ^
<davmor2> seb128: oh nice
<ximion> Laney: maybe important to know: this bug can *still* be triggered, even with the patch, if you feed appstream malformed YAML
<ximion> we resolved this upstream too, and Yakkety should be completely safe
<Laney> sounds like a good one to backport
<ximion> since there usually is no broken YAML, triggering this bug should not happen though (you need to be root to install busted YAML)
<ximion> yes, might still be useful to have
<Laney> generator bug or third party repo
<ximion> background is that the YAML parser wasn't checked correctly for errors which occur due to malformed YAML files, which sends appstreamcli into an infinite loop
<ximion> jap
<Laney> the apt hooks are a bad place to have a program hanging
 * ximion agrees
<Laney> since the repository can't give you a package to get you out
<ximion> oh, it can - but only if you don't refresh the cache before attempting to upgrade :P
<Laney> ._.
<ximion> https://github.com/ximion/appstream/commit/f5a2f4da6e1bdce89124858d672e9ddea051b172 is the thing
<ximion> it grew a bit bigger, because I wanted to fix other things too
<ximion> when that other bug in appstream-glib is fixed, there should be no way to bring AppStream down anymore
<ximion> PK >> 1.0 in Yakkety, nice :-)
<seb128> not quite yet
<seb128> it's in proposed like it was previous cycle
<seb128> let's see if doko deals with aptdaemon and the other things in breaks
<ximion> seb128: IMHO it would make a lot of sense to just drop the pkcompat layer from aptdaemon
<seb128> yeah, probably, we discussed that before xenial
<ximion> have stuff which uses PK use PK, and things which use the aptd API use aptd - aptd mimicking PK is just a source of bugs
<seb128> I don't remember what issues we had with changing that though
<ximion> seb128: those would be interesting to know, because if they are easy to accomodate to on the PK upstream side, we might just do the changes
<seb128> I think it was more distro technical debt
<seb128> or fixing things that depends on the compat layer
<ximion> there's stuff depending on the compat layer?
<ximion> that'd be weird... (since everything is using it via libpackagekit-glib2...)
<seb128> well, depends in the debian/control sense
<ximion> right, that is a different thing
<seb128> I think I remeber why we didn't drop it in xenial
<seb128> it's because we said it wouldn't make sense to replace it by the outdate/buggy pkgkit 0.8 code
<ximion> (but then I would argue that fixing a few packages is less work than adapting aptd - at least in Debian, there is only one package depending on aptd at time, which means everything doing so in Ubuntu must be due to Ubuntu-specific patches)
<seb128> and we couldn't update packagkit because of click
<seb128> now for y we decided to ignore click
<seb128> so we can update packagekit
<seb128> and probably drop the aptdaemon compat
<ximion> yeah, GNOME Software with PK << 1.0 just doesn't work at all :P
<Laney> happy weekend!
<Laney> flexiondotorg: I should probably share my CSS changes with you at some point, will give you that soon
 * Laney laters
<Trevinho> Laney: have nice WE
<seb128> Laney, have a good w.e!
<flexiondotorg> Laney, great.
<flexiondotorg> Laney, https://github.com/flexiondotorg/ubuntu-mate-themes
<flexiondotorg> That is where we are adapting the MATE themes to 3.18 for MATE 1.14 built against GTK3.
<flexiondotorg> When that is done, we'll branch and start work on 3.20 in the same repo.
<willcooke> EOW!  night all, have a great weekend
<seb128> have a good w.e desktopers!
<Beret> so
<Beret> how does one fix the gnome software rubbish in 16.04? :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-15
<jbicha> robert_ancell: did you see that gnome-software/zesty got stuck in https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/phased-updates.html
<robert_ancell> jbicha, should be fixed in bug 1689425
<ubot5> bug 1689425 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Zesty) "/usr/bin/gnome-software:11:g_source_attach:debconf_accept_cb:socket_source_dispatch:g_main_dispatch:g_main_context_dispatch" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689425
<jbicha> did you see that the current error in the phased-updates report is different than the one mentioned in that bug?
<robert_ancell> jbicha, no
<robert_ancell> jbicha, hmm, not sure if the last update triggered that one
<jbicha> yeah, that's what I was wondering
<jbicha> I liked phased-updates except when it's blocking an important update and I have to scratch my head to try to figure out what's not working
<jbicha> we can ask bdmurray if he's willing to ignore that error?
<jbicha> the phasing on webkit/xenial is funny, every other time it checks it pauses the rollout, but at least the % is still rising
<jbicha> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/amd64/libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37
<duflu> Actually, tangentially, is there someone able to implement/consider enhancements/fixes to errors.ubuntu.com?
<Trevinho> Morning duflu
<duflu> Morning Trevinho. How's it going?
<Trevinho> duflu: good... But last week of Bali it seems :-(
<duflu> Trevinho, yeah end-of-holiday comedown is bad
<duflu> Usually post-holiday
<Trevinho> duflu: it's not holiday! ð
<duflu> Although my definition of holiday is a time when you completely forget your job and how to do it...
<Trevinho> The thing is that at this point I should have just spent more time in this area, maybe Australia too... But I'll do again in the future maybe.
<Trevinho> And well, getting advantage of being remote in this way is just great
<duflu> Trevinho: Nothing's happening down here. You missed nothing :)
<Trevinho> duflu: I believe there's always something to feed your (mine, at least) curiosity anywhere you go
<duflu> Trevinho: Did you get around the island much?
<Trevinho> duflu: well... Just during weekends and national holidays, but I mostly all the things in my list. Just a few to scratch
<duflu> Trevinho, I always wanted to see the volcanic lake(s), but never got there...
<Trevinho> duflu: that's quite a cool hike
<Trevinho> Quite busy, but the view is amazing
<jbicha> robert_ancell: can you review https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-shell/ubuntu/revision/29
<jbicha> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-shell/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/ubuntu-lightdm-user-switching.patch
<Trevinho> now that I'm leaving this coworking they've just upgraded the network to snappy-frendly speeds :-(
<jibel> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> I'm back!
<seb128> hey oSoMoN
<jibel> Salut seb128
<didrocks> wb seb128, hey oSoMoN, salut jibel
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, didrocks, jibel
<oSoMoN> seb128, had a good holiday?
<seb128> hey jibel, welcome on board!
<jibel> thanks
<seb128> re didrocks, hey willcooke
<Laney> moin
<didrocks> hey Laney
<seb128> oSoMoN, useful time off indeed
<seb128> hey Laney
<willcooke> morning
<willcooke> hi papa seb128
<seb128> haha
<Laney> hey didrocks hey seb128 hey willcooke!
<Laney> how do?
<willcooke> Having to put the light on today
<willcooke> too dark in here
<seb128> it's nice&sunny here
<Laney> so pleased
<andyrock> morning
<willcooke> hey andyrock, welcome to full time employment ;D
<andyrock> thank :S
<andyrock> :D
<Trevinho> hi babbo seb128 !!! :-D
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<seb128> Trevinho, sorry, saw your message the other day but it was a bit busy here and I forgot to reply
<seb128> hey andyrock, welcome on board as full time employee
<Trevinho> seb128: no worries... I know the timing isn't the best for dealing with all the things ;-)
<andyrock> seb128: thanks!
<Trevinho> seb128: but I hope you're all fine!
<seb128> Trevinho, it is, thanks
<Trevinho> Glad tohear
<Trevinho> how is your sleep time? :D
<seb128> chaotic
<seb128> but it's ok, as a geek I know how to deal with that
<seb128> :-)
<Trevinho> ehehe, sure... ;-)
<andyrock> hey seb128, where is the code for the "Online Accounts" panel in System Settings
<andyrock> there is nothing in unity-control-center/panels
<seb128> andyrock, talking Unity, not gnome right?
<seb128> andyrock, https://code.launchpad.net/gnome-control-center-signon
<andyrock> thanks
<Laney> right so
<Laney> I've got Ken's pkg that turns off the Mir backend in GTK
<Laney> 5 minutes to scream before I fire ze missiles
 * willcooke gets under the desk 
<Laney> the only thing is that it removes some symbols
<Trevinho> sil2100: when you've a sec, please publish this https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2760
<seb128> Laney, willcooke, I guess we stop mir support for desktop usecases?
<willcooke> seb128, yah
<sil2100> Trevinho: looking
<seb128> k
<Laney> seb128: I think they even want to SRU that
<seb128> why?!
<seb128> it's not like having an experimental gtk backend built in zesty would hurt anyone
<sil2100> Trevinho: will the autopkgtests pass? I always preferred to have those available already
<seb128> I wouldn't bother
<Laney> in xenial, not sure about other releases
<seb128> removing mir?
<seb128> or just gtkmir?
<Trevinho> sil2100: well, nothing changed package side for that... But if you want feel free to wait
<Laney> I think it's something like - deprecated/removed API, breaking projects -> remove them
<Trevinho> Anyone here got GS running in wayland from jhbuild? :-)
<Laney> don't know about GTK specifically, but other desktop things
<seb128> k
<sil2100> Trevinho: I guess I won't wait, if it fails we'll see it on the main infra
<Laney> Trevinho: Session, Shell, Software, Sudoku, Screensaver?
<Trevinho> Laney: I've jhbuild here with installed most of things, no session as main one should be fine, nor screensaver... But my GS starts in X
<Trevinho> I've also recompiled XWayland but for some reason that doesn't start
<Laney> I'm saying that GS means like 10 things
<Laney> do you mean gnome-shell?
<Trevinho> Laney: ah, sure
<Trevinho> As I'm looking at the point scaling these days
<Laney> yeah sorry, no idea :P
<Laney> probably #gnome-shell would be the place
<Trevinho> yeah, I'm speaking with people from there... I was just wondering if someone here had an ubuntu setup for that.
<Trevinho> Laney: ah I've also changed the theme as you liked more
<Trevinho> only for those tho
<Trevinho> (those buttons)
<Laney> Trevinho: ok, feel free to publish
<Laney> thanks!
<Laney> ah wait
<Trevinho> what?
<Laney> https://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/minheight.png
<Laney> do you think the titlebar is too small there?
<Laney> looks like a missing min-height
<Trevinho> yeah...
<Trevinho> It actually is defined
<Trevinho> not sure why that happens :|
<Trevinho> I've not a program to repropduce
<Trevinho> or... yeah. I have
<Trevinho> let me see
<Laney> there's one :P
<Trevinho> Laney: sure, but that is hard to get in my window :)
 * Trevinho broke is GS
<Trevinho> how  is that possible if I only touched jhbuild... mhmh
<Trevinho> Laney: https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/messagedialog-minheight/+merge/324052
<Trevinho> not's are needed here
<Laney> hahaha
<Laney> of course they are
<Laney> Trevinho loves the not
<Trevinho> well, might not... but... still :)
<Laney> Trevinho: got a screenshot?
<Trevinho> Laney: ops... no... but just paste that in yours ctrl+shift+d/u
<Trevinho> s/u/i/
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> where can I get one easily?
<Laney> a dialog
<Trevinho> Laney: terminal has one when you try to close it but it has a child open
<Trevinho> but... i think that was fine even before
<Trevinho> Laney: make something crash :-D
<Laney> why don't we set min-height on all titlebars?
<Trevinho> Laney: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24580502/
<Laney> heh
<Laney> you hax0r
<Trevinho> Laney: real one would have said
<Trevinho> python -c 'from gi.repository import Gtk; Gtk.MessageDialog().run()'
<Trevinho> with some obfuscation :-D
<Trevinho> as for the min height for all the widgets... Mhmh, even adwaita does some selection, I'd avoid it for now, unless we donÃ¨t
<Trevinho> don't find something that doesn't work as we want
<Laney> i'm annoyed by how complicated the theme is
<jbicha> Laney: we could probably do gtk3 3.22.15 at the same time as the mir removal for artful
<Laney> +  [ Iain Lane ]
<Laney> +  * New upstream release 3.12.15 (also includes 14, 13).
<jbicha> thanks
<Trevinho> jbicha: hey, maybe you can help about the jhbuild + wayland session?
<jbicha> Trevinho: I don't think you can directly use jhbuild to run GNOME Shell on Wayland
<Trevinho> jbicha: I need to create a gdm instance, I know...
<jbicha> you probably know more than me then!
<jbicha> if I had to test something like that, I would just patch the distro package and install that
<muktupavels> Trevinho: create script that will start your jhbuild session and then install session desktop file in /usr/share/wayland-sessions. then you can select that session from lightdm/gdm.
<muktupavels> Trevinho: https://paste.ubuntu.com/24580591/
<Trevinho> muktupavels: basically it's what I've done...
<Trevinho> mhmh
<muktupavels> https://paste.ubuntu.com/24580593/
<Trevinho> mh, something different tho, let me see that
<muktupavels> that is how I am starting sessions built in jhbuild, but I use lightdm and second seat for that.
<jbicha> I've had trouble with gdm not giving me an option for new sessions until I restart gdm
<Trevinho> muktupavels: i'm with lightdm too now
<Trevinho> jbicha: well, same is for lightdm...
<Trevinho> muktupavels: the fact that my jhbuild is only installed for the user is a problem?
<muktupavels> only ligthdm + second seat + wayland has some problems.
<Trevinho> muktupavels: as I guess it should not...
<Trevinho> but...
<muktupavels> I dont know, just posted what I use and what works for me.
<Trevinho> muktupavels: mh, ok.... I don't get any debugging in journalctl tho
<muktupavels> I also had to symlink some typlib files into prefix to get gnome-shell working
<muktupavels> I have errors and debug messages in journalctl...
<muktupavels> try to add --debug to gnome-session?
<Trevinho> yeah, tried that... but it doesn't see
<Trevinho> m to go
<muktupavels> does lightdm executes your script?
<muktupavels> maybe try same with x11 session?
<mhall119> willcooke: I've added a calendar event tomorrow at 1pm my time to talk about KDE snap work, if that's too late in your day let me know
<willcooke> mhall119, ah nice one, thanks
<jbicha> Laney: do you want to sync appstream-glib from experimental?
<Laney> check artful-changes
<Laney> huh
<Laney> gtk went straight in
<Laney> unless someone else retried stuff
<jbicha> that's a good thing, right?
<jbicha> I didn't retry anything gtk
<Laney> of course it's a good thing
<Laney> it's also a surprising thing
<Laney> well I suppose the always faileds aren't that good
<Laney> aptdaemon, flatpak, gtk4, update-manager
<Laney> night
<oSoMoN> night
<willcooke> bleh,  calling it a day.  See you all tomorrow
<huggybear404>  on ubuntu desktop 17.04 I search samba and realvnc not find under software ? remote desktop installed but vnc viewer fails connect, any tips ?
<jbicha> robert_ancell: good morning, did you see my ping yesterday about gnome-shell's locking with lightdm?
<robert_ancell> jbicha, no, but I see it now..
<robert_ancell> jbicha, don't you have commit access to the branches?
<jbicha> robert_ancell: yes, I went ahead and pushed it into artful
<jbicha> I was just curious if it looks right because I'd like to SRU it back to xenial
<robert_ancell> jbicha, what does this._lightdmLoginSession() do?
<jbicha> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-shell/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/ubuntu-lightdm-user-switching.patch
<robert_ancell> jbicha, oh, so that's the switch user button on the lock screen?
<jbicha> it's the lock button in gnome-shell's system status menu in the top right
<jbicha> when I used d-feet to run lightdm's Lock method, it looked like it gave me the same result as SwitchToGreeter so I just extended the gnome-shell patch that already called SwitchToGreeter
<robert_ancell> jbicha, why not use the gnome-shell lock screen?
<jbicha> I thought that depended on running gdm?
<jbicha> the canLock line was what was keeping the lock button from showing when we were using lightdm
<robert_ancell> jbicha, oh, right. I guess for now that's an OK solution. The long term is to make g-s use the lightdm interface (I have a patch in progress)
<jbicha> are you ok with me SRUing this now then?
<robert_ancell> jbicha, I don't see the value in SRUing it personally, because I'm not sure if there's many cases of people using g-s and LightDM in Xenial. But it's up to you.
<jbicha> I think there are quite a few people on Ubuntu who are installing gnome-shell just to see what it's all about
<robert_ancell> jbicha, does it matter to them if the lock works?
<jbicha> I think I'm going to drop gnome-shell's dependency on gdm and SRU that
<jbicha> those who install ubuntu-gnome-desktop will still get the annoying debconf question about whether they want to use gdm or lightdm with no context to know what is the right answer
<jbicha> but at least those who only install gnome-shell can avoid that problem
<jbicha> yes, Ubuntu gets blamed if things like the lock button don't work, even if it's not completely Ubuntu's fault here
<robert_ancell> Dropping the dep definitely sounds useful.
<jbicha> yup, I dropped it in artful as part of the MIR already
<huggybear404> does anyone know how to make desktop sharing or samba work on ubuntu 17 ?
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-16
<andyrock> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning andyrock!
<jibel> good morning
<Trevinho> morning europe
<Laney> moin
 * willcooke waves
<didrocks> morning guys
<Laney> what's up g
<duflu> Start again... Morning Europe
<willcooke> hi duflu
<duflu> Hey willcooke
<duflu> (I actually said Morning Europe in a Ukranian accent)
<Trevinho> hi duflu
<Trevinho> Laney: did you see my new theme MP, right?
<Laney> not unless you asked me for a review
<Trevinho> Laney: ok it's here then https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/gtk-theme-colors-define/+merge/324091
<duflu> Hey Trevinho
<muktupavels> Trevinho: if you work on theme then maybe you want fix/improve appmenu button style? Currently it does not look good.
<Trevinho> muktupavels: I checked that... BUt it didn't look bad to me
<Trevinho> muktupavels: in csd you mean?
<muktupavels> yes
<chrisccoulson> hi willcooke
<chrisccoulson> did you talk to anyone about the startpage on friday?
<muktupavels> Trevinho: icon is more or less same size as button...
<Trevinho> muktupavels: anyway, well... Theme is a side thing, when I find something I fix that :)
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, Iâve got a chromium-browser stable update ready in https://launchpad.net/~canonical-chromium-builds/+archive/ubuntu/stage/+packages (except for yakkety arm64 which repeatedly fails to build). Is it ok to push to -updates for all series but yakkety until IÂ figure out how to get the arm64 build not to die of memory exhaustion?
<oSoMoN> interestingly, I was seeing that same build failure on beta and dev, but the latest updates built fine in my PPAs, wondering if itâs due to a change upstream or different builder specs
 * willcooke -> haircut. brb
<Laney> grade 1 all over
<willcooke> back.  Ears lowered
<mobeats> Greetings. What's a lightweight desktop application for cropping images, that isn't as heavy duty as GIMP?
<oSoMoN> IIRC shotwell does cropping
<willcooke> or mtpaint
<willcooke> better to ask on #ubuntu for this sort of thing though - those guys will have a better idea
<jibel> imagemagick
<jibel> there are tons of options
<Trevinho> Laney: are you fine with me landing the theme, right?
<Laney> sure
<Trevinho> in the queue!
<jbicha> good morning
<willcooke> hey jbicha
<GunnarHj> seb128: Hi Seb, do you have any thoughts about bug #1689321?
<ubot5> bug 1689321 in gnome-user-docs (Ubuntu) "Keep the desktop docs away from the language packs" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689321
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey, how do we ensure the right binaries for the locale are installed?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Do you mean for gnome-getting-started-docs? pkg_depends, I suppose.
<GunnarHj> seb128: My thought is to not split ubuntu-docs and gnome-user-docs into multiple language specific binaries.
<seb128> GunnarHj, what would be the size impact on the iso?
<mobeats> thanks willcooke & oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> youâre welcome
<GunnarHj> seb128: Approximately +10 MiB.
<jbicha> it looks like gnome-user-guide .deb for zesty/universe is 10.7MB, installed size 49MB
<seb128> it's always tricky
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Right. ubuntu-docs in zesty (only English) is 1.1 MiB.
<seb128> if we wave 10M additions as small they pile up
<seb128> and you easily end up with 15% increase
<seb128> and that has an impact on download time, installation time and footprint, mirrors, bandwith, etc
<jbicha> in artful (maybe it's already stripped since there was a new upload after it was re-promoted to main), it's a 2.2MB .deb
<GunnarHj> I have some good news on the topic: fonts-noto-cjk will probably be split by weights, which will give us tens of MB less ISO space. :)
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Then is must have been stripped...
<GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: So we are talking about 10.7 - 2.2 = 8.5 MiB. Is saving that space worth the work with splitting the package into
<GunnarHj> ~30 language specific packages?
<seb128> I would just keep it in the langpacks
<GunnarHj> seb128: That in effect prevents us from doing docs SRUs.
<seb128> I don't really understand why
<jbicha> it's also an issue if upstream produces a new translation update of gnome-user-docs; because the translations won't get to users until we get around to making another language pack
<GunnarHj> seb128: I tried to explain it in the bug report.
<jbicha> I think Gunnar is saying that the Docs team can't change any strings or translations will break until the next langpack is done
<seb128> why?
<jbicha> that's true even if Ubuntu translators correct the translations to match the new text
<seb128> you can't change strings anyway
<seb128> nothing assure you that all translation teams will pick up the new strings beforfe your upload
<seb128> so you might regress even without stripping
<GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: Not only translation will break, the content changes won't be present in other languages but English until the language packs are updated. And we only update langpacks for verified languages, which is far from all of them.
<seb128> you shouldn't change strings in a SRU
<seb128> outdated content is the same
<seb128> if some translations team are slow or unstaffed you regress the same way, even without split
<seb128> and if langpacks updates are not well verified that's another issue and seems worth resolving
<GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: I'm not suggesting that SRUing of the docs would be done for extensive parts. But as it works now, we can't even fix an apparently misleading section.
<GunnarHj> And yes, doing it typically leads to additional untranslated strings.
<seb128> which is not better than misleading sections
<seb128> if users don't understand english they go from misleading to not understandable
<seb128> but yeah, tricky topic
<GunnarHj> seb128: Then they aren't misled, at least. :)
<seb128> it might be worth an ubuntu-devel or desktop@ list discussion
<GunnarHj> seb128: Do you mean to discuss the appropriateness of doing docs SRUs there?
<jbicha> I'm not sure if this is related, but I'd like to encourage translators to translate gnome-user-docs in GNOME rather than in LP
<seb128> GunnarHj, no, about the strip or unstrip with pro and con
<GunnarHj> seb128: But that boils down to that, doesn't it?
<seb128> GunnarHj, I'm unsure how often we need to fix docs in SRUs in practice and important are those fixes, if it's worth increasing by 1% or more the iso size with the impact on all users download/install time/disk use
<seb128> GunnarHj, right, are those docs errors important enough to justify adding cost to all Ubuntu users
<jbicha> how do we opt gnome-getting-started-docs out of the langpacks? since it's already split by language, stripping for langpacks doesn't make any sense there
<seb128> it might make sense
<seb128> it allows to get translations updated through launchpad
<GunnarHj> seb128: Is it a good idea to use LP for gnome-user-docs and gnome-getting-started-docs?
<seb128> if you don't strip/use langpacks then you need to fix translations errors by patching the source package and SRUing it
<jbicha> sorry for asking a silly question, but why would we want translations through LP for the GNOME docs that haven't been patched in Ubuntu?
<seb128> GunnarHj, that's a good question, I didn't think much about that so I don't have an opinion at the moment
<seb128> jbicha, because that's where Ubuntu translations go to fix translations errors and one of the reason why we did langpacks, so we could fix translations without having to do a source upload
<GunnarHj> seb128: I agree with jbicha that we should encourage the translators do work with upstream, and that would basically make LP redundant.
<seb128> what part of LP?
<seb128> we can make LP use the upstream translations
<seb128> we still get langpack updates decoupled from source uploads
<seb128> LP as the UI were translators do they work is one side of the process
<GunnarHj> seb128: Right, but it means that translators may do work in LP which does not benefit upstream...
<seb128> right, well we have a solution to that
<seb128> set the translation as shared with the upstream component
<GunnarHj> Is that possible?
<jbicha> would that require GNOME to allow git commits from LP translations?
<seb128> no?
<seb128> that would mean Ubuntu translators can't fix bugs on launchpad and need to fix them upstream
<seb128> but we would keep the capability to refresh translations with langpacks
<seb128> the update would just come to upstream git
<seb128> GunnarHj, I think https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+source/eog/+sharing-details
<seb128> " Translation sharing with upstream is active. "
<jbicha> so we would need to manually make sure GNOME has a string freeze and git-branch for a series (like gnome-3-24) and point LP to that branch?
<GunnarHj> Ok, so you mean that with such a link, LP could import new translations from upstream automatically, and we have the option to update the langpacks.
<seb128> something like that
<seb128> k, need to drop offline for a bit, relocating before the meeting
<seb128> bbiab
<GunnarHj> jbicha: This discussion turned more complicated than I anticipated.
<jbicha> yes, there's so much I still don't understand about how Ubuntu's langpacks and translations work
 * willcooke rings the meeting bell
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Meeting - 2017-05-16
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 16 15:30:29 2017 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Meeting - 2017-05-16 | Current topic:
<jbicha> \o
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, jbicha, jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<kenvandine> o/
<heber> o/
<oSoMoN> ðµ/
<willcooke> Just finishing up a call, be with you in a sec
<andyrock> o/
<willcooke> done
<willcooke> Let's get the ball rolling
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Meeting - 2017-05-16 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> hey
<andyrock> #1 Finishing the process to pass the cr
<andyrock> +mir work to brandon
<andyrock> #2 Some work to sync cr+mir with cr+wayland from igalia
<andyrock> #3 live-patch: studying the all thing
<andyrock> #4 check what we need to do with livepatch + ubuntuone account
<andyrock> eof
<willcooke> thanks andyrock
<willcooke> #topic jbicha
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Meeting - 2017-05-16 | Current topic: jbicha
<jbicha> â¢ Prepared gnome-shell SRUs (LP: #1684205, LP: #1690938, LP: #1589240, LP: #1672175)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1684205 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Zesty) "Screen lock button missing when using LightDM" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1684205
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1690938 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Zesty) "Allow lightdm to be an alternate recommends for gdm3" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690938
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1589240 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Zesty) "Gnome on-screen keyboard doesn't appear when a text field is focused" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1589240
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1672175 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Yakkety) "gnome-shell should recommend chrome-gnome-shell" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1672175
<jbicha> â¢ Completed webkitgtk fast-track SRU (LP: #1687019)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1687019 in WebKit "Cannot add a Google account using Online Accounts in Ubuntu Gnome" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1687019
<jbicha> â¢ Some GNOME 3.24.2 updates
<jbicha> â¢ Closed a few hundred gnome-shell bugs for unsupported versions
<jbicha> â¢ Worked with bdmurray to modify apport to tell bug-reporting users of the GNOME3 PPA for 16.04 and 14.04 to ppa-purge the PPA since it's no longer supported on those releases (LP: #1689093)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1689093 in apport (Ubuntu Xenial) "modify ubuntu-gnome hook to set UnreportableReason for 14.04 and 16.04" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689093
<jbicha> â¢ Forwarded several crash reports for gnome-calendar and gnome-shell to GNOME
<jbicha> â¢ Scheduled https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeremyBicha/CoreDevApplication for next Monday
<jbicha> eof
<seb128> (sorry, relocating took a bit longer that I though)
<willcooke> Good luck with the coredev jbicha.
<willcooke> #topic jibel
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Meeting - 2017-05-16 | Current topic: jibel
<willcooke> Hey jibel, you want to handle this or heber?
<heber> Hi! Status for jibel (who is in a dr appointment) and myself
<willcooke> thanks heber
<heber> * Removed obsolete upgrade tests.
<heber> * Added upgrade tests from Zesty to Artful for Ubuntu and flavors
<heber> + and currently making them green
<heber> * Installer tests: Fixing static validation jobs
<heber> EOF
<willcooke> thanks heber
<willcooke> heber - I'll get 1:1s set up etc this week
<heber> willcooke, ok. Thanks!
<willcooke> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Meeting - 2017-05-16 | Current topic: kenvandine
<kenvandine> * Snapped some GNOME apps, gedit and gnome-calendar are working well in classic mode.  gnome-terminal and gnome-contacts are a WIP.  More coming
<kenvandine>   - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/GNOME/Snaps
<kenvandine> * Uploaded SRU for network-manager-applet to xenial, installed xenial on a laptop to test the SRU.
<kenvandine> * MIR status, security acks for mozjs38 and gjs, still waiting on acks from MIR team
<kenvandine> * Upgraded laptop to Artful, works great :)
<kenvandine> EOF
<willcooke> thanks kenvandine
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Meeting - 2017-05-16 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> â¢ gstreamer 1.12 final
<Laney> â¢ asglib update @ debian/exp & artful
<Laney> â¢ new gtk
<Laney> â¢ debugging s390x autopkgtest workers crashing
<Laney> â¢ ubiquity launcher in daily images wasn't being marked as executable, change in new nautilus - fix that in casper
<Laney> â¢ theme reviews for Marcoooooo
<Laney> â¢ pygobject update @ experimental
<Laney> â¢ gnome-software - some debugging of updates not working, now looking at pk/gstreamer
<Laney> â£
<willcooke> Thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic oSoMoN
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Meeting - 2017-05-16 | Current topic: oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> â¢ weekly round of chromium updates:Â stable 58.0.3029.110, beta 59.0.3071.47, dev 60.0.3095.5
<oSoMoN> â¢ subscribed to the officesecurity ML
<oSoMoN> â¢ built libreoffice 5.3.3 (latest fresh release) for artful in PPA, figured out how to run autopkgtests locally and looking into some failures
<oSoMoN> EOF
<willcooke> thanks oSoMoN
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Meeting - 2017-05-16 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> just back since yesterday, been catching up on what happened while I was away
<seb128> </monday>
<willcooke> wb seb128!
<seb128> thanks!
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Meeting - 2017-05-16 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released 1.14.0. New configuration option for auto setup of only local (IPP-over-USB) IPP printers and possibility to change default to auto-setup of all driverless printers by ./configure option, for easier syncing of the Debian package into Ubuntu.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Studied way how to continue development of cups-browsed to make use of the new CUPS 2.2.x features and taking into account the functionality of the new print dialog backends.
<tkamppeter> - CUPS: Discussed some of the new CUPS features with Mike Sweet and found out that in small networks and on mobile devices new print dialog can replace cups-browsed, but for sophisticated features in large networks cups-browsed is useful: load balancing, legacy CUPS interoperability, selecting remote printers, ...
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2017: Mentoring the students who already started some coding, planning of the student projects.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Meeting - 2017-05-16 | Current topic: Trevinho
 * willcooke expects he's asleep
<Laney> we just saw him
<Trevinho> yes
<andyrock> he's never asleep
<willcooke> :))
<Laney> he looked GREAT
<Laney> not drunk at all
<oSoMoN> :)
<Trevinho> Â· Theme GTK fixes
<Trevinho> Â· Got all the gnome git stuff working from jhbuild
<Trevinho> Â· Looking at the gnome scaling factor support for non-integer values
<Trevinho> Laney: what are you meaning?!
<Trevinho> That was dinner!
<Trevinho> :-)
<Laney> liquid dinner
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<Trevinho>  /DONE
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Meeting - 2017-05-16 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - Testing and fixing bugs for GNOME Software PackageKit migration
<willcooke> - Investigating GtkEntry input limits in GTK+ - proposed patch that stops changed events being generated once limit hit.
<willcooke> - snapd-glib 1.12 release - added support for more install options and updated error codes.
<willcooke> - Patches for LightDM guest session disable SRU
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Meeting - 2017-05-16 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> First off, did I miss anyone?
<willcooke> Likely more additions next week, but for now is that all of us?
<willcooke> Anyone who is not here, please raise your hand
<willcooke> In the meantime..
<willcooke> Weekly email status updates.  I'll be taking the weekly meeting notes and turning them in to an email which I will post to (probably) the desktop ML.
<JamieBen_> thanks willcooke
<willcooke> I might need a few details from people, but I think it'll be generally fine
<willcooke> ohai JamieBen_
<willcooke> Secondly - Task breakdown.  If you don't already have a Trello account, please get one.  And then I will finish off the script to import LP bugs (and Blueprint work items?) in to Trello
<willcooke> Thirdly - it's review time again.  I'll send an email out on that.  But have a think about your 360 reviewers
<willcooke> Lastly, there will be an interview with our very own kenvandine in OMG shortly.  Check it out.  I'll put a link here soon.
<willcooke> Anyone got any other topics?
<kenvandine> :)
<willcooke> going once
<seb128> o/
<seb128> quick one, but might be worth to use a common list for GNOME things we snap
<seb128> kenvandine started a wikipage
<seb128> but we already had a googledoc with some items
<seb128> and some people who started work on some snaps
<seb128> just to make sure we don't end up duplicating work
<willcooke> Let's transition to the wiki page
<seb128> wfm
<willcooke> Anyone got a link handy?
<seb128> it's in the meeting log, kenvandine mentioned it in his update
<willcooke> oh, right
<willcooke> I remember
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/GNOME/Snaps
<seb128> right, that one
<seb128> that was it from me
<seb128> thanks :-)
<willcooke> thx seb128
<willcooke> anyone else?
<kenvandine> i've noticed that since i've upgraded to artful, they aren't working anymore
<willcooke> Wayland interfaces?
<kenvandine> no, typelib issues
<kenvandine> looking into it
<willcooke> cool, thanks kenvandine
<willcooke> going twice
<willcooke> aaand
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 16 15:52:18 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-05-16-15.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<seb128> thanks!
<GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: Trying to sum up the discussion about docs and translations. So far we have mostly questions:
<GunnarHj> - Would it be acceptable to not strip and with that add 8.5 MiB ISO space to gain some flexibility wrt docs SRUs?
<GunnarHj> - Do we want to use LP for gnome-user-docs and gnome-getting-started-docs translations?
<GunnarHj> I think those two questions can be dealt with separately.
<GunnarHj> How do we proceed?
<seb128> GunnarHj, use mailing list for discussion
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, I'll try to describe the conflicts of aims on the list.
<GunnarHj> Btw, I posted to the list on another topic:
<GunnarHj> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2017-May/004935.html
<GunnarHj> Only a peripheral reply so far. Who is the decision maker on that?
<jbicha> the daily Ubuntu (Unity) artful images for the past few days have been pretty unusuable for me in Try Ubuntu mode, tested in VBox
<willcooke> night all
<GunnarHj> jbicha: still there?
<jbicha> yes
<GunnarHj> jbicha: If I understand it correctly, the split of gnome-getting-started-docs into language specific binaries is an Ubuntu specific thing. Do you think it would be manageable to do the same with gnome-user-docs?
<jbicha> yes, it shouldn't be that difficult
<GunnarHj> jbicha: It would eliminate the ISO space discussion.
<jbicha> Getting Started is ridiculously large with all the videos so it made a lot of sense for that to be split up
<GunnarHj> I know.
<GunnarHj> jbicha: The problem with such a solution is that you need to be attentive when languages are added (or removed).
<jbicha> I don't know when they would ever be removed, but the --fail-missing rule will loudly tell you when there's a new language
<GunnarHj> Ok.
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Maybe this would be the best solution. I'm hesitating to bring the discussion to the list (too much details which few devs know about).
<jbicha> if you're going to make 30+ new packages, maybe now would be a good time to rename the binary from gnome-user-guide to gnome-user-docs
<jbicha> *binary package name
<GunnarHj> jbicha: The other thing we talked about - whether to use LP for the new docs packages or not - requires some more discussion with seb128. Possibly he missed that you - unlike with other packages - cannot accomplish updates of docs translations without updating and uploading the packages. The localized Mallard pages are created at build time.
<jbicha> oh
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Why would we want to rename the binary?
<jbicha> I assume it's only named gnome-user-guide for historical reasons; it would make a lot more sense now to have it match the upstream name and source package name
<GunnarHj> Ok. I'll keep that in mind. We need Seb's clearance first.
<jbicha> oh, and I was thinking about splitting the system-admin-guide into a separate binary pkg in Debian but that's not currently translated so that's no big deal either way
<GunnarHj> Is that built at all currently?
<jbicha> yelp help:system-admin-guide
<jbicha> (yes)
<GunnarHj> Aha, I see now that it's currently included in gnome-user-guide.
<jbicha> that could be an upstream issue that maybe GNOME should split it off themselves?
<GunnarHj> Separate tarball?
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Anyway, I'm going to test this idea with seb128 tomorrow.
<jbicha> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/05/ubuntu-switch-to-gnome-questions-answered
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-17
<jbicha> robert_ancell: https://blogs.gnome.org/aday/2017/05/16/new-simple-scan-designs/
<robert_ancell> jbicha, yep
<jbicha> obviously, you've been talking to him, but I wanted to make sure you saw his post :)
<didrocks> good morning
<Trevinho> morning didrocks
<willcooke> morning all
<Laney> moin moin
<Laney> moist day ahead http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/gcrjm8jf7
<willcooke> Good for the allotment
<willcooke> My grass was going a bit brown as well
<ricotz> morning desktopers
<Laney> trent's not really responded yet https://flood-warning-information.service.gov.uk/station/2102
<Trevinho> hi willcooke and Laney
<Laney> I'll give the weather one more day
<Laney> then it can stop so that I can get down and plant out mjy sweetcorn and squash thank you very much
<Laney> hi ricotz, hey Trevinho
<andyrock> good morning!
<Laney> how are you?
<Laney> aloha andyrock
<Trevinho> Laney: allright... Working from the pool... :-)
<Trevinho> Litterally *inside* the pool :-D
<Laney> O_O
<Laney> hope nobody splashes near you
<Laney> let's see a picture please
<Trevinho> no, it's quiet here
<Trevinho> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/mBecYbiI/io%20adesso%20%3A-D
<willcooke> a.maze.ing
<Laney> hahaha
<Laney> love it
<Trevinho> And there's also a plug...
<Trevinho> anyway Laney another small theme fix for you
<Laney> ffs
<Laney> can you try to batch theses?
<Laney> -s
<Laney> we don't usually upload < 10 line changes to packages every day
<Trevinho> Laney: sure... It's just that... You know, I find something wrong I fix it...
<Trevinho> And MP it, as otherwise I forget to do it in batch
<Trevinho> but as for the actual upload, sure we can batch those
<Laney> thx
<Trevinho> So no need to upload, just review is fine... I'll put them alltogether then
<Trevinho> you know, I'm always used to andyrock denigrate me because I was sending him 2k lines MPs :-D
<andyrock> 2k when I was lucky
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney Trevinho andyrock, active channel this morning :-)
<willcooke> hey seb128, welcome to the party
<sameee> hi friends, how do i force quit in ubuntu?
<willcooke> sameee, better to ask in #ubuntu - but...  you can use xkill (run it from a terminal and then click on the app you want to kill), or you can use kill <process id> or pkill <process name>
<seb128> Trevinho, plugs next to the pool, be careful with water
<Trevinho> seb128: it's far from that...
<Trevinho> Like in the internal side of the kiosk... But sure, anyway it's always a thinkpad! :-). No water can block it....
<Trevinho> or, wait..
<seb128> Trevinho, but nice to see you still have good time there :-)
<Trevinho> hey seb128 btw!
<seb128> hey :-)
<Trevinho> seb128: eh, since you had to drop the Sun sprint, I had to do this
<Trevinho> how is your night/day? :)
<seb128> short/long :p
<sameee> thanks willcooke, eventually it came right
<seb128> yeah, sorry about the italy sprint not being possible
<seb128> that would have been fun
<sameee> just had to wait a couple of minutes for it all to come grinding to a halt
<seb128> but it's just delayed :-)
<duflu> Hmm, this gnome-shell stuff has a habit of turning the screen black (backlight on) and not waking up
<duflu> Hopefully we can fix that
<seb128> report a bug upstream to start maybe?
<duflu> seb128, Yeah one thing at a time. I reviewed 150 gnome-shell bugs today
<seb128> you plan to work on/maintain it? or just helping with triaging?
<duflu> seb128, just cleaning up because I thought it was "easy"
<seb128> haha
<duflu> Turns out it's not an easy package
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<seb128> I guess it's also collecting reports for different other components?
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho Thanks for the email :-)
<seb128> like when users don't know what to blame they report against the shell
<seb128> was the same in unity
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: no worries
<seb128> it was getting compiz, xorg, etc reports
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg! how are you?
<flexiondotorg> seb128 Doing well thanks.
<duflu> seb128, yeah that would be easy. But there was a flood of crashes during 2014. Not sure if that mostly calmed down
<duflu> Will find out
<flexiondotorg> Had some time off recently to go to Linux Fest North West in the US.
<flexiondotorg> Nothing like a Linux Fest to blow away to cob webs :-)
<seb128> duflu, we should probably script close all of those and use e.u.c to track current segfaults
<seb128> flexiondotorg, nice :-)
<jbicha> I'm wondering if we should just close all the trusty gnome-shell bugs
<seb128> still working your way through upstream snaps otherwise?
<seb128> jbicha, hey
<jbicha> Ubuntu GNOME 14.04 LTS is no longer supported and I don't think anyone's interested in gnome-shell 3.10 any more really
<seb128> jbicha, segfault, or any report? we should probably review the list and see those which still can be easily reproduced
<jbicha> most of these: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bugs?field.tag=trusty
<duflu> jbicha, I wish trusty was unsupported, but 2019? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
<duflu> For all packages though there is a spike in mid-2014 because that's the oldest still supported release. Can't just blindly expire bugs
<duflu> Oh, GNOME
<seb128> duflu, gnome-shell is not supported by Canonical on trusty though
<duflu> Awesometastic
<jbicha> if it's in main and a community flavor isn't interested then it's not really supported despite popular opinion that everything is supported for 5 years
<jbicha> *not in main
<duflu> jbicha: Happy to have any excuse. Just need some URL with an official statement really
<jbicha> duflu: does this work for you? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-gnome/2017-March/004211.html
<duflu> jbicha, indeed, thanks
<jbicha> duflu: thanks for the help triaging; a week ago we had almost 800 open gnome-shell/ubuntu bugs
<duflu> jbicha, no problem. There were 400+ at the start of today. I'll run through them before EOD
<duflu> EOW!
<GunnarHj> seb128: Hi Seb! jbicha and I talked some more about docs and translations yesterday. One option ought to be to split gnome-user-docs into lang specific binaries as is already done with gnome-getting-started-docs. Then the required ISO space would be unchanged.
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey
<seb128> GunnarHj, jbicha, right, that was mentioned in the afternoon discussion, that's fine but if you unstrip you loose the ability to fix translations on launchpad (if you keep launchpad translations enabled rather than using direct upstream import) and you would require to do source-patching + package SRU to update translations in that case rather than be part of the normal langpacks refreshes
<seb128> which is fine if that's what you want of course
<seb128> it's just a tradeoff
<seb128> also you need to ensure the right -<locale> binaries get installed
<seb128> which is a language-selector job I guess?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Please note that docs translations are different from shipping MO files with the langpacks. The localized XML files (which may or may not be stripped) are created only at build time. Hence the manual intervention you mention is necessary whichever route you take.
<seb128> GunnarHj, so what's the process to build them today? export translations for launchpad manually and copy them in the source package and rebuild?
<seb128> who does that?
<GunnarHj> seb128: I do.
<seb128> do you have an example of a such upload
<seb128> just to look at what the package diff looks like?
<GunnarHj> seb128: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/17.04.3
<seb128> GunnarHj, how does it work to get the translations updated then? we need a langpack export after each ubuntu-docs builds?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yes.
<GunnarHj> seb128: It's a pretty heavy process.
<seb128> so in practice that almost never happens right?
<GunnarHj> seb128: For stable releases: No.
<GunnarHj> seb128: Correction: It does happen once or twice for each LTS - "full langpack update".
<seb128> k, well your call as I said
<seb128> changing to use upstream translations and split is fine
<seb128> you just need to make sure that language-selector&co install the right binaries then
<GunnarHj> seb128: Right. l-s would need to reflect it.
<GunnarHj> seb128: As regards LP, I see now that templates and PO-files are in the import queue for gnome-user-docs. Suppose it's because the package was moved to main. Is there a way to stop that?
<seb128> the stripping?
<GunnarHj> seb128: So if we would set NO_PKG_MANGLE, the translations wouldn't go to the LP translation interface either?
<seb128> right
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, I see. That's how we'd like it to work.
<GunnarHj> seb128: Thanks for your patience! I guess the ball is in my court then. ;)
<pitti> Good morning folks!
<pitti> Laney: thanks for reviewing the backport request!
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<seb128> GunnarHj, sounds fine, good luck with the changes
<pitti> seb128: prima, danke!
<pitti> seb128: you are back at work now?
<seb128> pitti, yes, since monday
<jbicha> pitti: I believe phako discussed briefly with you the problem with Ubuntu's shotwell autopkgtest failing because of the iOS patch Debian is carrying
<jbicha> do you have any advice on what we should do there for shotwell?
<pitti> jbicha: right, I remember that, this needs re-recording the ioctls with a real camera to adjust for the protocol change
<pitti> or disabling the test
<jbicha> it sounds like you're saying the autopkgtest failure might not be a real regression then?
<pitti> no, most probably not (should be verified with manually importing from a PtP camera, of course)
<pitti> umockdev can only replay known conversations, so if the protocol changes then it can't emulate the camera any more
<jbicha> phako says it worked with his camera so I'll see if he is able to re-record to get the autopkgtest working again
<Laney> hey pitti
<Laney> no worries!
<chrisccoulson> on this survey - http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/05/ubuntu-desktop-gnome-extensions-survey-1710 - I see AlternateTab is listed.
<chrisccoulson> I'm using that, and find it useful for a different reason than that quoted in the survey
<chrisccoulson> I actually prefer the tab switcher to be grouped by application rather than window (ie, the behaviour without AlternateTab)
<chrisccoulson> The reason I use it is because the default tab switcher shows applications from all workspaces, whereas AlternateTab only shows windows from the current workspace
<chrisccoulson> ie, the tab switcher with and without that extension is not as good as we had with unity
<chrisccoulson> there didn't appear to be any way to add additional feedback ;)
<Laney> "Hello errors.ubuntu.com, or anyone else affected,"
<Laney> :D
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, thx
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, i definitely miss alt-tab from unity
<huggybear404> I enabled desktop sharing and installed vnc viewer, when i try connect using correct ip I just get cannot connect using this encryption, how to fix this ? I tried all options I can find
<kenvandine> cyphermox, did you see security ack'd the mozjs and gjs MIRs?
<cyphermox> kenvandine: yes, I'm reviewing those right now
<kenvandine> cyphermox, great!
<kenvandine> we're anxious to update the seed
<didrocks> please let me commit the unity removal. I did the addition at the time :)
<kenvandine> didrocks, +1 from me :)
<oSoMoN> didrocks, feeling nostalgic?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: yeah, were good times, scrambling all those deps in :p
<jibel> didrocks, oh remember the daily release stuff ;) end of an era
<didrocks> yes! :p
<didrocks> I still have the jenkins autoconfig somewhereâ¦
<Laney> we can get back to that
<jibel> NOOOO
<Laney> jhbuild -> archive
 * didrocks bzr branch lp:tarmac
<didrocks> if Laney wants it, he will get it :p
 * didrocks remembers the notions of dependent stacks
<Laney> if it doesn't have a google spreadsheet for UI
<Laney> I don't want to hear about it
<kenvandine> rofl
<didrocks> it didn't!
 * Laney is taking the best bits from all solutions
<didrocks> can be added though
<didrocks> ahah
<Laney> I can't actually remember what the spreadsheet looked like
<Laney> hope somebody's got a screenshot
<didrocks> well, screenshot is post-daily-release
<Laney> oh man it's still there
<didrocks> spreadsheet*
<didrocks> the spreadsheet was the daily release killer
<didrocks> unplugged
<didrocks> killed
<didrocks> you don't have any idea of the amount of javascript driving this spreadsheet
<didrocks> insane!
<Laney> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ahfru_NNQUKMdEZzQ3VHV0xHS3RKcERudVljcXQycWc#gid=0
<didrocks> some people revealed the secret fields!!!
<didrocks> looks like you can publish some silos :p
<didrocks> want to do it! Some are even for oSoMoN!
 * Laney has saved a copy
<didrocks> for posterity!
<Laney> about once a week I have the urge to copy and paste Ozymandias
<Laney> now is that time
<kenvandine> cyphermox, thx for the MIRs
<didrocks> :)
<kenvandine> cyphermox, we still need bug 1685870 approved too
<ubot5> bug 1685870 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-shell" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1685870
<Laney> Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
<didrocks> nice one
<seb128> you guys are crazy :-)
<Laney> hey seb128
<seb128> and now Laney is loosing memory and saying hey again
<seb128> hey Laney :p
<Laney> nah
<Laney> just felt like an 're' kind of moment
<kenvandine> cyphermox, can you also look at bug 1685411 again?
<ubot5> bug 1685411 in colord-gtk (Ubuntu) "[MIR] colord-gtk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1685411
<kenvandine> jbicha, did you look into re-enabling the tests for gnome-settings-daemon?
<kenvandine> if not, i can look at that
<seb128> Laney, I see :-)
<seb128> Laney, it's too warm here today, remind me when you guys were there
<seb128> here
<jbicha> kenvandine: I got stuck on g-s-d tests with https://bugzilla.gnome.org/782170
<ubot5> Gnome bug 782170 in color "color: build test requires compiled schemas" [Normal,New]
<Laney> seb128: yeah, that was crazy and this is even earlier in the year
<Laney> meanwhile my shoes and jeans are still wet from going out in the rain earlier
<cyphermox> kenvandine; sure
<kenvandine> cyphermox, thx
<kenvandine> cyphermox, for g-s-d, is linking to that bug report good enough explanation of why the tests are disabled?
<kenvandine> we should add that to the changelog or something
<cyphermox> Yeah bug report is fine.
<kenvandine> jbicha, ^^
<kenvandine> cyphermox, the g-s-d MIR was bug 1685414, if you want to ack that :)
<ubot5> bug 1685414 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-settings-daemon" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1685414
<kenvandine> hey bcurtiswx!
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx welcome back!
<bcurtiswx> hola kenvandine!!
<bcurtiswx> thank you!
<kenvandine> contributions always welcome :)
<bcurtiswx> of course :) i just need to get new keys and ssh stuff setup
<kenvandine> wow... been that long?
<bcurtiswx> yeah, it has. Or at least, it feels like it had
<jbicha> Laney: cyphermox: is this fine? and also drop the autopkgtest which just duplicates dh_auto_test? https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu/revision/523
<cyphermox> Yeah, looks good to me
<cyphermox> Yiu have a stray space in control line 67 though
<jbicha> that's because I ran debian/rules clean this time; I usually just edit debian/control by hand
<cyphermox> Kenvandine:gsd is approved too
<jbicha> cyphermox: can I bug you about LP: #1686726 again?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1686726 in gnome-getting-started-docs (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-getting-started-docs" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686726
 * Laney will be back later
<kenvandine> cyphermox, thx
<kenvandine> cyphermox, i went ahead and assigned the last of the MIRs we need for the initial seeding to you
<kenvandine> gnome-shell, mutter, caribou, gdm3 and colord-gtk
<kenvandine> 3 of those were in main before
<kenvandine> cyphermox, feel free to re-assign as needed, but i assume it'll be you
<chrisccoulson> oSoMoN, ok, chromium is done
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-18
<jbicha> duflu: I think your bug is better than the one you marked it a duplicate of, LP: #882022
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 882022 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Gnome-shell needs some Ubuntu design/theming integration (font, on-off swithch, etc.)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/882022
<duflu> jbicha, probably yeah. But I like to give people a chance to pipe up. Some get irate at having their own bugs ignored in favor of newer duplicates
<jbicha> since gnome-shell/artful is currently already using the Ubuntu font, and we couldn't find anywhere in a default GNOME Shell where the On/Off switch is used any more
<duflu> Which is fair, if they're still paying attention
<duflu> *their old bugs ignored
<jbicha> ok, but you'll need to clean up the bug to be more specific then
<duflu> jbicha, just reversed them
<duflu> I'm mindful of previous experiences where you have two or more groups of people (two or more bugs) discussing the same issue for years on end, but each group unaware of the existence of the other. It's a strong case for why deduplication is critical; to communication and resolution
<duflu> And as of yesterday a set of three bluez bugs which are effectively the same issue. Need to be delicately merged
<duflu> Some with hundreds of comments already
<sarnold> of course you run the risk of touching bugs with hundreds of comments that it'll just be the place for any random complaints about the package in question. "this is back!" "this was fixed in hardy, please file new bug" etc etc
<duflu> sarnold, I know... but cats can be herded too :)
 * sarnold imagines duflu http://imgur.com/gallery/zcPmd
<duflu> aww
<duflu> sarnold, I mean if you have a deep enough understanding of the issue, and surrounding issues, then you have the authority to declare what "fixed" means and that everyone else should log new bugs
<duflu> Herding is temporary, before you assign them new cages
<sarnold> duflu: yeah, and i fyou're lucky you show up before the bug's grown three heads
<robert_ancell> jbicha, your bug says:
<robert_ancell>  a user unclicks the checkbox next to
<robert_ancell> "Snappy Support", gnome-software will be installed since it Depends on
<robert_ancell> the Snap plugin.
<robert_ancell> that should say "uninstalled", right?
<jibel> good morning
<Trevinho> morning jibel
<duflu> Morning Trevinho, jibel
<Trevinho> hi duflu
<duflu> I mean afternoon
<oSoMoN> good morning/afternoon folks!
<didrocks> hey jibel, Trevinho, duflu, oSoMoN!
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<willcooke> morning
 * didrocks didn't check IRC, deep into aws doc
<didrocks> morning willcooke
<Laney> yo
<andyrock> good mooooorning
<didrocks> hey Laney, andyrock
<duflu> salut didrocks
<duflu> and andyrock
<duflu> and all the rocks
<duflu> And Laney
<duflu> and willcooke, oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1kftCx5-tA
<willcooke> lol
<Laney> deep
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> salut seb128!
<Laney> hi seb128!
<Laney> you good?
<Trevinho> hi willcooke and Laney
<Trevinho> and oSoMoN
<Trevinho> and andyrock (but we already sent hearts each other in telegram :-D)
<Trevinho> Anyway desktoppers... Happy to see Canonical / Ubuntu logos again in this wiki https://wiki.gnome.org/Hackfests/FracionalScaling2017 :-)
<willcooke> Nice one Trevinho
<oSoMoN> cool
<Laney> cute
<Trevinho> I should have scaled the 101 more tho :-D
<Laney> anyone else going to go?
<Laney> guess you're staying out there until then
<Trevinho> Laney: yep... ð¤
<Trevinho> Laney: as for other people... Well, everybody is welcome. We'll send the ritual mails, but I guess not many others will be there
<duflu> "* Drawing the Shell UI at a higher resolution than what the logical pixels correspond to." ... mir_proving_server ;)
<duflu> Bonus points for full-screen subpixel rendering
<duflu> Although the extra resources required would probably not be a sensible tradeoff
<seb128> hey Laney Trevinho oSoMoN willcooke duflu
<duflu> hey seb128
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> good morning flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> o/
<Trevinho> duflu: eh. I would have preferred to avoid to downscale resources, but it's the only way we can given the toolkit status nowadays..
<Trevinho> duflu: however, if you want to join... You're close enough to :-D
<duflu> Trevinho, downscaling doesn't hurt if you're doing it on the GPU (like mir_proving_server)
<duflu> And that way the process only have one copy of the texture, rendered at any resolution on any monitor, at any zoom level
<duflu> But you have to then start making the Apple assumption[tm]: That is the physical monitor is not so low DPI that the user is bothered by scaling artefacts. Or do as I did in mir_proving_server: Design all textures to be smooth at any down-scale
<Trevinho> duflu: yes, sure... in terms of perfomance isn't too much a problem for drawing... But still generating higher textures for any app, even if thta might not ever be drawn in a high dpi monitor is a little a waste..
<Trevinho> And that's not done in GPU
<duflu> Trevinho, I'm referring to reused textures (e.g. widgets), not the app window :)
<duflu> You load them into GPU memory at the start and then never need to touch them
<duflu> Very fast
<Trevinho> yeah, that's true.. but you know apps redraw.
<duflu> Indeed. And they don't need to touch system memory then
<duflu> Partly
<duflu> This is all best case scenario. I don't really have a clue if it would work for Gnome code
<duflu> Well, anything is possible, but "work easily"
<duflu> Wait a minute... Trevinho, so does this mean upstream GTK doesn't have a plan for fractional scaling themselves?
<Trevinho> duflu: nope...
<Trevinho> duflu: I think we'll discuss about this too. But considering how much has been done so far, this is not feasible.
 * duflu checks what year it is
<Trevinho> duflu: I know.... The mistake has been done in the past. I made my voice at the time, not too loud, but I did. But now, I think we can't go that way anymore as most of of the gnome world is covered by 'gint scale'
<duflu> It's more surprising if you consider how forward-thinking Gnome has been with smooth scrolling and designing for touch
<duflu> Yes, you can have touch, so long as your display is 1366x768
 * duflu sets fire to the kitchen
<Trevinho> duflu: now our voices can be there though... It's just about getting into the conversation.
<Trevinho> oh, never mind :-D
<jbicha> Laney: are you fine with the first option at LP: #1691620 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1691620 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Recommend instead of depend on gnome-software-plugin-snap?" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1691620
<Laney> Why is it split out?
<Laney> Don't have a strong opinion
<jbicha> I think having -snap split out is better for Debian, although the -snap plugin does not require snap to be installed
<jbicha> Ubuntu needed the Flatpak and Limba plugins split out, so it kinda made sense to me to split -snap out too
<jbicha> Laney: are you ok with https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu/revision/523 and dropping the now duplicate autopkgtest there?
<Laney> Probably a Suggests would have been okay instead of splitting it, but like I say I don't really mind, you can make it disableable if you want
<Laney> I'd rather see tests fixed than disabled, but it's better than not running them
<jbicha> gtk4's meson port hasn't figured out how to get the schemas compiled for the tests yet https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/testsuite/reftests/meson.build#n39
<GunnarHj> jbicha: I'm about to look into splitting gnome-user-docs into lang specific binaries. I can take the opportunity to rename the binary to gnome-user-docs as you suggested, but if I do, will you make that change in Debian? I suppose it's a good idea to have the same name, even if we tend to bypass the Debian package.
<jbicha> GunnarHj: yes, probably, if Debian's pkg-gnome team doesn't mind :|
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Ok.
<mitya57> Trevinho, you said the appmenu button doesnât look bad to you, but the screenshot in your last mail shows that it is not true :)
<mitya57> (not demanding anything, in fact maybe Iâll fix it myself when I have time)
<Trevinho> mitya57: you got me :-D, but..... Still I just think is a stuble thing, isn't it?
<mitya57> the circle behind the icon is very ugly
<Trevinho> mitya57: but really, at first look I didn't see it...
<Trevinho> mitya57: but it should be trivial to fix, just I had no time yet
<mitya57> we can either remove the circle completely, or make it a rectangle instead (Adwaita-like)
<cyphermox> jbicha: I'm not sure why iio-sensor-proxy was in main in zesty (wasn't prior to that, there was a MIR for geoclue but it doesn't look like iio-sensor-proxy was ever really reviewed / MIRed); and it's been pushed back to universe in artful.
<cyphermox> see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iio-sensor-proxy/+bug/1621216
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1621216 in geoclue (Ubuntu) "[MIR] geoclue-2.0" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> cyphermox: infini_ty promoted it at the release sprint
<Laney> we decided it was OKâ¢
<cyphermox> ok, there wasn't clear paperwork about that
<Laney> it was showing up on $reports and we were getting those down to 0
<Laney> nope
<cyphermox> fair enough
<Laney> sorry
<cyphermox> it's out of main now though
<Laney> well something caused it to show up in c-m and it got demoted
<jbicha> g-s-d also recommends iio-sensor-proxy
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> once g-s-d is in main, it will pull iio-sensor-proxy too
<jbicha> is that fine? you don't need extra MIR paperwork now because the demotion was just because of the Unity8 reshuffling?
<Laney> I hope it's fine
<cyphermox> it's fine, I just wanted to understand why things were the way they were, and that I had not hallucinated iio-sensor-proxy in universe
<Laney> nod
 * oSoMoN red tape, bbiab
 * oSoMoN is back
 * Trevinho Laney: other :not's based reviews for you... Really I don't do it on purpose, but... There's no other way at my eyes :-)
<Laney> I wonder how I got so far with barely using it
<Trevinho> Laney: I had an evil gag in my mind... But I'll keep it for me :-D
<seb128> Trevinho, the man who never sleeps
<Trevinho> It's just midnight... Still early :)
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> Trevinho: what's that workaround?
<Laney> is it because your stuff didn't get sponsored yet?
<Trevinho> Laney: it says: if a headerbar is not a child of a .titlebar, then you can use it as a primary-toolbar
<Trevinho> Laney: partially, but mostly related to the fact that it will work also if we want to SRU the theme.
<Trevinho> Laney: plus we can remove it once we've fixed the apps, or any of them needs it.
<Trevinho> I've found no problem with it so far
<Trevinho> (before it was applyying that rule to all the headerbars, now i've reduced the spectrum... If you'd test using the rule that there was before my previous branches, it was always using an headerbar drawn as a toolbar)
<Laney> can you say: headerbar:not(.titlebar headerbar)?
<Laney> maybe with a >
<Trevinho> Mhmh... let me see
<Trevinho> Laney: no that's a syntax error
<willcooke> taking off a bit earlier tonight.  Going out for dinner for Mrs willcooke's birthday.
<Laney> happy birthday wilhelmina cooke
<oSoMoN> happy birthday Mrs willcooke
<Laney> Trevinho: guess it has to be a simple selector
<Laney> ok, fine, just go for it :P
<willcooke> night all
<Trevinho> willcooke: oh, happy BD
<Trevinho> well, wife's bd... But he missed anyway :-D
<Laney> some scary looking clouds out there
 * Laney is going to plant stuff in a minute...
<Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ng5
<Trevinho> Laney: you're becoming a farmer! :-D
<Trevinho> Laney: I've lots of fields if you need them... Well, my parents have, but... Nobody cares. :-D
<Laney> \o/
<Trevinho> Just in difficult areas tho
<Laney> I'll have one
<Laney> or two, if I can use one for a house
<Trevinho> Mhmhm... House... that's more complicated... As not all the fields are buildable there. But, well... YOu know, you'll find a solution :-D
<Trevinho> You can have a stall maybe :)
<Laney> ok, somewhere to park a van ...
<Laney> then I can take it to go climbing too
<Trevinho> And picking mushrooms while doing that.
<Laney> :-o
<Trevinho> Anyway..... I guess i'll go to bed now
<Laney> get a silo up with those theme things
<Laney> you can fix them tomorrow
<Trevinho> Laney: it's already building ;-)
<Laney> nice
<Trevinho> https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2771
<Trevinho> I'll land it tomorrow if you don't but some no'es around before ;-)
 * Trevinho should go back to adwaita, or everytime he sees a thing he doesn't like, has to trigger the inspector.... And forget about his main task :|
<Trevinho> Like now.... Nasty bug!
<Trevinho> What is that missing right pixel in the terminal!? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/RzFnNdWu/
<Trevinho> ok, adwaita has the same... it seems a terminal bug related to the scrollbar tho... Not going further for now... I'll leave some fun for you too
<Trevinho> Good night
<Laney> me too
 * Laney rushes out
<Laney> laters
<muktupavels> Trevinho: is it mutter + hidpi?
<oSoMoN> good night
<kenvandine> seb128, could you create a gnome-3-24 PPA under ~ubuntu-desktop?
<kenvandine> i don't have perms to do that
<kenvandine> seb128, figured we should match the ppa name to the platform name
<kenvandine> seb128, btw, i wanted to name the snap gnome-3-24
<kenvandine> feedback appreciated
<jbicha> kenvandine: why don't you use the gnome3-team/gnome3-staging PPA?
<jbicha> oh, I was thinking GNOME 3.25. What would be in your PPA?
<jbicha> robert_ancell: good morning, I'm going to push g-software 3.24 to artful unless you object
<jbicha> 3.24.3
<jbicha> you said that you had a problem with it crashing but it seems to be working here so maybe the problem was fixed?
<robert_ancell> jbicha, no objection if it works for you
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-19
<kenvandine> jbicha, it was for backports of 3.24 for the gnome platform snap for xenial
<kenvandine> we need to build debs in a ppa and build the platform snap from it
<jbicha> kenvandine: oh neat, will that work?
<Trevinho> muktupavels: yes... + shell
<duflu> robert_ancell: If lightdm runs on Xorg right now, what will it run on in future?
<duflu> Native DRM?
<robert_ancell> duflu, well, it doesn't run on Xorg, but it launches it for the sessions
<robert_ancell> The sessions can also run on u-s-c (RIP) and nothing (i.e. Wayland)
<duflu> robert_ancell: Yeah that's what got me thinking. Mir/USC provided a future base for lightdm to run on. Now that's gone... you need the same foundations as gnome-shell itself. Which becomes tricky with Nvidia-binary surely
<robert_ancell> duflu, yes, gnome-shell on Wayland requires the new Nvidia drivers, the old binary stuff will never work
<duflu> Also, if lightdm isn't using Xorg, why is Xorg running before I log in? Just for the transition animation?
<duflu> robert_ancell: It appears to me lightdm is running on Xorg:
<duflu> root      1046  0.0  0.3 312204 56164 tty7     Ssl+ 09:52   0:00 /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg -core :0 -seat seat0 -auth /var/run/lightdm/root/:0 -nolisten tcp vt7 -novtswitch
<robert_ancell> duflu, unity-greeter is an X based greeter, so it uses Xorg
<duflu> Oh
<duflu> I recall you already had native DRM backends so I guess that's what we'll use
<duflu> a native DRM backend
<duflu> I guess we just rely on every driver supporting KMS (and dumb buffers?)
<robert_ancell> yes
<duflu> I still need to get used to the idea that Wayland is attempting to solve fewer problems than Mir
<RAOF> Yup. We were quite ambitious!
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<duflu> \o....
<duflu> ....o/
<duflu> Hmm, no that just looks like two people drowning
<didrocks> :p
<willcooke> morning
<Laney> HI
<Laney> willcooke: good meal/
<Laney> ?
<andyrock> good morning
<didrocks> hey willcooke, Laney
<willcooke> Was great!  I had pie & chips.  Goooooood pie.
<RAOF> Hey didrocks, willcooke, Laney!
<willcooke> Howdy RAOF
<didrocks> morning RAOF!
<RAOF> Hey ho yay!
<Laney> hey didrocks hey RAOF hey andyrock!
<Laney> how are you all?
<Laney> happy friday / end of friday depending on your upside down state
<RAOF> I've got a sleeping baby strapped to my chest, so that's nice.
<willcooke> :) Saw the pics on Twitter :)
<RAOF> Although she seems to have decided to start pulling out my chest hair, which is less excellent.
<Laney> Saves money on going to get it waxed
<didrocks> I'm good! rainy Friday, but we'll live with it :)
 * didrocks is lost on amazon doc
 * Laney got very wet last night
<Laney> but 16 sweetcorn went in
<didrocks> argh :) I was at the Golang meetup yesterday, and escaped the rain just when walking back!
<Laney> \o/
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey seb128
<willcooke> salut seb128
<willcooke> mange tout
 * willcooke embraces the culture you know
<seb128> re didrocks, hey willcooke Laney RAOF andyrock
<RAOF> Hey, and a bonus Seb!
<didrocks> willcooke: desktop team never had that many frenchies :p
<willcooke> :))
<seb128> RAOF, I saw the picture, how old is your baby now?
<RAOF> seb128: she's 6 weeks on Sunday!
<didrocks> waow, didn't know, congrats RAOF :)
<seb128> RAOF, nice, and congrats :-)
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<RAOF> Thanks!
<Laney> hey seb128!
 * RAOF should really send a warthogs email.
<oSoMoN> good morning
<willcooke> morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey willcooke
<seb128> hey oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey seb128, how goes?
<duflu> Wow. There are important things on warthogs. I hadn't looked in months
<willcooke> evening duflu
<duflu> willcooke: Morning
<willcooke> s/evening/afternoon
<duflu> Happy this side of the sun
<duflu> For some months
<duflu> Just don't have an existential crisis wondering what "side of the sun" means
<duflu> Because it's relative
<seb128> oSoMoN, good! you?
<oSoMoN> seb128, yeah, very good. Sun is shining and itâs Friday, what could go wrong? :)
<oSoMoN> and with any luck
<oSoMoN> my house will be finished and I can move in just before summer
<duflu> koza: Would you suggest laptop radios are more reliable than cheap USB radios?
<duflu> :)
<muktupavels> Trevinho: https://git.gnome.org/browse/mutter/tree/src/ui/theme.c#n739
<muktupavels> Trevinho: 1031 / 2 = 515 and when cairo scales up you get 1030.
<koza> duflu, hey
<koza> duflu, what do you mean by more reliable?
<duflu> koza: I'm wondering if I would hit fewer unrelated bugs on an Intel wifi chip compared to a dirt cheap USB dongle
<koza> duflu, the laptop radios might be even cheaper ;-)
<koza> duflu, ah, so this is wifi not bt?
<duflu> koza: Bluetooth
<duflu> I mean I can confirm A2DP is silent on startup, but also multiple other problems that make it really hard to separate single issues
<duflu> Although I would hazard a guess that's just old (xenial) Pulse
<koza> duflu, I'm using laptop radio and a usb dongle at the same time. been using usb dongles exclusively previously and never had more issues with any. of course depends on controller however I have not been buying a fancy ones - just whatever is in the store. there might be issues though when laptop radio is a combo one and supports wifi and linux at the same time. coexistence might cause throughput issues.
<duflu> koza: OK thanks. I won't bother switching from desktop to a laptop then
<duflu> These past few weeks have already taught me to trust bluez more than pulseaudio
<koza> duflu, no, does not make sense. easier with dongles especially if you have a few that differ by controller manufacturer: broadcom, csr, etc.. then you get a nice market coverage.
 * duflu checks
<koza> duflu, haha :-) bluez and bluetooth in general is suprisingly healthy (and they said it will die by 2020)
<duflu> koza: I'm looking at xenial though. :)
<koza> :-)
<duflu> koza: Heard of ISSC?
<koza> duflu, no, what is it?
<duflu> koza, my chip manufacturer
<koza> international seismic safety centre?
<koza> ah :D
<koza> duflu, do you know that you can dig the details of your controller like supported profiles, versions, etc on the Bluetooth website?
<duflu> koza, Yes, but I would not rely on a chip spec given all the software in the middle. It's likely and apparent there are multiple software problems
<koza> duflu, true but in case you would like to know what to expect from your dongle or product. this is useful then.
<duflu> koza: Unrelated: I encounterd major problems a few years ago with CSR when I was fixing an Apple Magic Touchpad bug. Do you still find CSR a problem?
<duflu> Turned out all other users with CSR had problems
<duflu> So I never plugged CSR in again
<koza> haha :-)
<koza> did that touchpad had problems only with csr?
<duflu> koza: CSR was just super glitchy and created secondary bugs. With other dongles the glitches stopped and I could work on the real bug
<duflu> ... in the touchpad driver
<duflu> IIRC, CSR just fell over if you asked it to transmit four touches concurrently
<duflu> Bandwidth profile = soggy shoelace
<koza> now i understand why you dislike csr
<duflu> Whee, Friday night monsoon
<koza> good or bad?
<duflu> Heavy and wet
<willcooke> Laney, thanks for your comments on the newsletter.  What is the usual route for folk going from LTS to non-LTS after the intermediate releases are EOL?  I don't think I've ever done that.  Should it be supported?
<Laney> willcooke: You know I thought about that and I'm not sure - I guess that the route is by skipping the EOLed release
<Laney> I think it has to be supported or else you can't get off 16.04 to 17.04 after 16.10 goes EOL
<Laney> I don't know if this has historically been tested though ...
<Laney> jibel: ^- do you know?
 * flocculant thought it was tested when you changed support length to 9 months - but not seen anything since then
 * flocculant is interested though
<Laney> I don't expect it's a hugely used upgrade path
<Laney> but still, should be kept working
<jibel> Laney, it is not supported IIRC, but I don't remember how they are supposed to upgrade. There was some doc on the wiki, let me check
<jibel> Laney, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<jibel> willcooke, ^
<jibel> i'll try it
<willcooke> thansk jibel
<Laney> jibel: That's about when the release you're on goes EOL isn't it?
<jibel> Laney, yes, but it should work for LTS too, if you switch from LTS to LTS to LTS to Normal release upgrade
<Laney> It's talking about manual hacking of sources.list and stuff
<jibel> Laney, yeah, let me try
<jbicha> you might want to ask bdmurray too about your non-LTS upgrade questions
<Laney> Doubt he's up at 05:29
<jibel> Laney, in any case you can either upgrade from LTS to LTS or release to release +1
<Laney> I can believe we might say that LTS to intermediate release apart from the next one isn't supported
<jbicha> I don't have the chat log, but I think bdmurray told me recently that once 16.10 is EOL, you'll be able to just upgrade straight from 16.04 to 17.04
<Laney> There's also a window where you'd be able to go from 16.04 -> 17.10
<seb128> is anyone really testing those/making them work?
<Laney> Both answers are fine, but if it's that they are supported paths then they should be tested
<seb128> we usually just do n to n+1 or lts to lts+1
<Laney> seb128: That's the conversation.
<seb128> right, sorry if that was too subtle as a comment
<seb128> I wanted to say
<seb128> "I don't think we do work on making sure upgrades to n+>1 work"
<seb128> I understood that was the topic :-)
<Laney> ya
<Laney> That's why I pinged j i b e l about it mainly
<Laney> he might have said "yeah we totally test that, there has never been a bug"
<seb128> one can wish :-)
<Laney> tbh I don't expect that many bugs from doing it
<seb128> there doesn't need to be, one package conflict is enough to make an upgrade derail
<Laney> I know, but those kind of things are usually kept until the next LTS
<Laney> because you have to support that upgrade path already
<seb128> yeah, but sometime package are renamed and renamed again
<seb128> and the intermediate name was not in the LTS
<Laney> I get there are cases where bugs could happen
<seb128> so it's required
<Laney> I'm just saying that I don't expect there to be that many in reality
<seb128> we had cycles where we looked at n -> n+3 for whatever reason I don't remember now, it has been a while
<seb128> it's not a lot of work to get working
<seb128> but there was some work involved
<seb128> resolver issues, some conflicts
<Laney> we'll need that now, it's an issue for this problem
<seb128> so if we want that to be reality supported I think we need to account some work for it
<Laney> it's just work that comes up on a 2 year cycle
<seb128> do we delete unsupported series from the archive?
<seb128> because even if 16.10 is not on support anymore, if upgrading though was working and the archive doesn't change there is no reason it should stop working
<Laney> you're suggesting hopping through unsupported releases?
<seb128> so that might still be easiest way to tell people to do that jump
<Laney> what if you expose yourself to a security bug in the meantime?
<Laney> sorry, lunch is ready, back in a bit
<seb128> that's a tradeoff I guess
<seb128> I'm not saying it's the right solution, just listing our options
<seb128> enjoy lunch!
<jbicha> since we're talking upgrades, was it an intentional decision for us to disable ppas on updates, but not try to run ppa-purge?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> we disable ppas because they add an unstable variable to the upgrade path and it makes things more like to go wrong
<seb128> enabling ppa-purge could be a valid wishlist, it would need to be a tool we officially support/ship/trust
<jbicha> right, it would need a MIR
<seb128> and to be tested/trusted enough
<seb128> does it always work? can it lead to uninstall part of your system?
<jbicha> but I think it's a major reason why upgrades fail and users don't trust Ubuntu upgrades because they expect Ubuntu to handle those details for them
<seb128> right
<seb128> go explain to users that it they use ppas they sign in for such issue
<seb128> hopefully snaps solves that for us
<jbicha> our solution is that they should run ppa-purge first, but instead of telling people to do something in documentation somewhere, I think we should just look at doing it for them
<seb128> how does ppa-purge work?
<jibel> well, common PPAs are xorg edgers or Gnome, the problem will take time to solve with snaps
<seb128> does it require the ppa to still exist to look at its status/list of packageS?
<jbicha> maybe with a prompt, like the "do you want to remove these obsolete packages?" to "do you want to downgrade these packages to official Ubuntu versions"
<jbicha> yes, unfortunately, the ppa must still exist with all its packages for that series for ppa-purge to successfully purge everything it is supposed to
<jbicha> but even if it only helps some cases, it would still help
<jbicha> it checks what packages the ppa provides and then downgrades those to the system versions
<jbicha> maybe ubuntu-release-upgrader could just check *all* packages?
<seb128> anyway, that would be a welcome improvement if somebody wants to work on that
<seb128> I don't think we have much people working on the upgrade tools nowadays
<jibel> it is not that trivial as the PPA can install dependencies that are not in the archive and you'll quickly enter a dependency nightmare
<seb128> right
<seb128> even downgrades are not safe
<seb128> if packages moved between binaries then the Conflicts/Replaces are not adapted for the reverse way
<jibel> especially if you're on an old release and installed the latest fancy packages from a PPA
<seb128> if files moved*
<jibel> including core packages like the display server
<jibel> absolutely
<seb128> not to mention that new versions of e.g GNOME might write user configs that the version you downgrade to can't understand
<seb128> imho the easiest way to support those users is for ppa owners to test upgrades from their ppa to new ubuntu series and fix issues
<jibel> An option would be to have proper documentation, detects if packages from a PPA are installed, point the user to the doc and let him take an informed decision "1. Upgrade without PPA 2. Cancel and fix the situation manually"
<jbicha> jibel: that would at least be better than now where the upgrader apparently assumes that the only thing in PPAs is backports from the very next Ubuntu release
<jbicha> Laney: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/commit/?id=974cc2a79 isn't very useful now that we're switching to GNOME
<jbicha> we could go back to https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/commit/?h=wip/ubuntu-3-22&id=4c6ea9310
<Laney> what is the problem it causes?
<jbicha> do we want to see "Software Updates Available" notifications from GNOME Software or not?
<Laney> Yes
<Laney> I think it should not offer updates to distribution packages though.
<Laney> As long as we have update-manager
<davmor2> Laney No no you don't because gnome will only update certain bits not the whole system as I found out so you might think you are up-to-date and safe and not be in reality :P
<jbicha> ok, so we should just drop that patch for now then?
<davmor2> Laney: also it will get confusing when you get pings from two places as to if there is an update or not :D
<jbicha> davmor2: could you file a bug with more details about that?
<davmor2> Nope on holiday only have my laptop so I can view pre-course videos :)
<jbicha> davmor2: part of the problem is that GNOME Software can update things that update-manager can't, like firmware, Flatpaks, snaps
<gQuigs> aiming for Gnome Software to be the one and only updater makes sense to me..  not sure how much work that is
<Laney> Enough
<Laney> jbicha: I don't see why you would
<davmor2> jbicha: from memory I've had gnome software telling me there was one update and on update manager there were 120 so hard to tell what it is finding and not finding
<Laney> But if you really want to make Unity users have a fallback dialog then you can
<seb128> it's not quite there though
<jbicha> Laney: the patch doesn't do anything except hide notifications on Unity which doesn't seem to make much sense now
<seb128> I think we should keep "software updates available" notifications off
<seb128> it's always misleading/noisy
<jbicha> teaching gnome-software to hide distro upgrades sounds fairly complex?
<Laney> No
<seb128> since we handle security uploads through unattended upgrades nowadays
<seb128> and auto-spawn update-manager
<seb128> or let me reword
<seb128> we should not make it notify about deb updates which we handle with other tools
<Laney> I just said that
<Laney> so that sounds like agreement
<seb128> I didn't say you didn't :)
<seb128> and yes
<seb128> unsure if it would be misleading to have gnome-software install debs but not list updates availables in the corresponding tab though
<seb128> it's a bit tricky
<Laney> a bit probably
<Laney> but less bad than it not working properly
<Laney> and with PK you only get offline updates anyway, so actually to keep it in place we'd need to do work
<gQuigs> if the debs are auto installed, shouldn't nothing prompt about them?
<seb128> ?
<gQuigs> since we handle security uploads through unattended upgrades nowadays => Gnome software shouldn't have time to find out about them?
<seb128> that's not how things work though
<seb128> step 1 is that the apt index is refreshed
<seb128> then tools get notified about available updates and do $things
<seb128> unattended-upgrade thing is to install security updates
<seb128> gnome-software one is to notify about updates available
<gQuigs> seb128: so that sounds like a timing issue..  have gnome-software wait until unattended-upgrades is done before alerting the user?
 * gQuigs just really wants one plus to rule all updates
<seb128> gQuigs, unsure that would the right fix, it hads dependencies between components
<gQuigs> *one place
<seb128> adds
<seb128> we just need to define what component does what
<seb128> if gnome-software notifications are not useful to us we should disable that
<seb128> or actually as L_aney said, if having it handling deb updates is wrong for us then we should disable that
<seb128> gnome-software
<seb128> ups
<seb128> gnome-software still need lot of work to provide a smooth upgrade experience
<seb128> or we need to revisit how we handle upgrades and do offline upgrades through packagekit
<seb128> but in any case it needs non trivial work
<gQuigs> gotcha, thanks for explaining!
<seb128> yw!
<Laney> If somebody wanted to work on online upgrade support in gnome-software's PackageKit plugins that would be a start
<Laney> Richard said he would accept that
<seb128> (not going to start ranting also about g-s quality there, but installing some updates from the list is workling really poorly on my box, tab is getting emptied, then it gets a spinning cursor animation in the corner for like a minute with no other feedback, then refresh the screen, then sometime list the package as to update still when it has been updated)
<seb128> Laney, yeah, I don't know where we stand and what we want to do
<seb128> offline updates might make sense
<seb128> in any case we have work to plan if we want to work on that
<jbicha> seb128: when are you going to upgrade to 17.10 ;) because g-s is working better on 17.04 and even better for me in 17.10
<Laney> That was a suggestion for someone else, not part of an official plan
<Laney> I personally think offline updates would make sense for release upgrades, might be a more of a hard sell for normal package updates
<Laney> anyways, not something we're going to do any time soon
<gQuigs> offline updates would make more sense if we were going to the base install, I'm guessing that isn't happening (or at least not planned for 18.04)?
 * gQuigs can't type today.. . if we were going to ***snap*** the base install
<seb128> jbicha, that comment was based on 17.04 testing, but I plan to try 17.10 today or monday
<seb128> jbicha, let's see how much things improved since april :-)
<jbicha> seb128: for instance, I wasn't able to duplicate LP: #1551599 any more with the latest version
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1551599 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Zesty) "Remove button missing after package installation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1551599
<seb128> yeah, I'm sure some issues are fixed
<seb128> also need to try with the packagekit backend
<seb128> but it is feature incomplete compared to update-manager, and UI feels weird at times
<seb128> xnox, hey, do you plan to submit back your indicator change to the vcs?
<xnox> seb128, no =)
<seb128> xnox, good team playing work, thanks
<xnox> seb128, are we not going to like remove all the indicators?
<seb128> why?
<xnox> once unity7 -> gnome switch is done?
<seb128> xfce uses some iirc
<seb128> and unity is still going to be in universe
<xnox> can use iirc, but did not use them by default. E.g. not datetime, they use xfce-datetime thing
<seb128> well unity in universe still stand
<seb128> also did we move ubiquity away from using those yet?
<xnox> seb128, apart from mark commiting that on g+, which imho was in error, not a mandate; i don't see why would be keeping unity in universe
<xnox> seb128, who is going to maintain it?
<seb128> community
<xnox> seb128, i will move ubiquity away from indicators once gnome-shell is on the ISO. Is that the case already?
<seb128> not yet
<xnox> seb128, "community" - i'd like to see names =)
<seb128> anyway for now that indicator is still on the ubuntu iso
<xnox> seb128, imho if there is no community supporting unity7 stack, it should be removed from the archive.
<seb128> so whatever you think it would be nice to use the vcs
<seb128> xnox, it's funny how people focus on wanting to remove working things from the archive but only when those are things we used, like why don't you go chasing down removing xdm from the archive or any of the stack of packages that didn't get touched for years before looking at used and working code?
<jbicha> off-topic, but Unity in an Artful live iso was unusable for me earlier this week when I tried it
<seb128> what is/was the issue?
<seb128> is that fixed?
<ogra_> seb128, dude! someone might want to use xdm to log into unity!
<ogra_> dont remove it :P
<xnox> seb128, eeeh. although xdm has an ubuntu patch, it's not canonical-upstream project.
<ogra_> (and happy friday)
<jbicha> in VBox, the DAsh and menu bar was flickering and I think CPU was 100%
<xnox> seb128, if we do not have maintainers, and are no longer supporting things we cannot simply move them from main to universe, and pretend life is awesome.
<seb128> xnox, what does it change if upstream is canonical or not? it's still free software and useful
<ogra_> and working fine
<seb128> xnox, why not?
<xnox> seb128, either it should be in main and supported; or removed from the archive and packaged in debian/reintroduced by somebody else.
<xnox> seb128, because of perception and expectations.
<ogra_> you would have to remove half of universe ...
<seb128> xnox, is that a written rule?
<xnox> e.g. this is why we removed src:upstart from the archive, ratehr than simply demote to universe.
<xnox> ogra_, is half of universe canonical-upstream for what mark has stopped paying maintainance for?
<jbicha> xnox: I think I generally agree with the questionability of keeping Unity7 around
<xnox> ogra_, i'm talking about things that are ex-main in unity-touch, unity8, unity7 seeds.
<ogra_> well, not half of ... but yeah, there is a lot
<seb128> xnox, why hating on Canonical code more than other upstreams?
<seb128> jbicha, ^
<jbicha> xnox: maybe it would help if you compiled a list of things that are broken enough for removal if they aren't fixed
<seb128> same question :p
<gQuigs> it's not uncommon to do Canonical maintained - main -> universe - > removed
<xnox> seb128, and for example if we have to do security or bugfix updates it would be nice to only do it for only stable releases; without requiring to land it in artful too.
<gQuigs> but it is another step..
<seb128> xnox, we don't give security support for universe anyway
<gQuigs> offtopic - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldap-auth-client/+bug/1646954  is a win for removing formally Canonical maintained packages
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1646954 in ldap-auth-client (Ubuntu) "Sync to Debian for -ldap, drop Ubuntu's -auth-client" [Wishlist,New]
<xnox> seb128, correct - but unity7 is in main in xenial.
<xnox> and we will support that there.
<xnox> but not in 18.04.
<seb128> xnox, that's not going to change
<seb128> right
<xnox> hence we should remove, as we are retiring it.
<seb128> you should remove xdm as well then
<seb128> we have lightdm
<gQuigs> for the ldap bug, we moved it to universe for one LTS release , and then the above bug is to remove it before 18.04
<jbicha> LP: #1686081 is one particularly difficult bug to solve if we aren't allowed to remove -synaptics from Ubuntu
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1686081 in xorg (Ubuntu) "If -synaptics is installed, GNOME Mouse & Touchpad Settings doesn't work" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686081
<xnox> i don't want unity7 stack for 5 years in 18.04 with people expecting support and updates because it is available and still supported in 16.04
<xnox> seb128, this is first time i hear about xdm - is xdm canonical upstream? and what is that patch for?
<xnox> seb128, for many things that were in ubuntu-touch seed, i will be dropping touch-delta and syncing packages from debian.
<seb128> xnox, so even if there is a community group taking it back and wanting to upload it to debian/ubuntu you are going to block that because old canonical code should just deleted?
<xnox> because there is no need to maintain and cary delta for the android dev tools for example.
<xnox> seb128, no, i will not block such efforts.
<seb128> k
<seb128> so I'm going to go reupload it with my debian email
<xnox> seb128, but as far as i can tell there is zero community efforts around unity7 =)
<xnox> seb128, sure.
<seb128> you realize it's just creating stupid round of delete/reupload?
<xnox> removing Ubuntu Dev teams from maintainer field is a good thing.
<seb128> but not changing the situation?
<ogra_> xnox, where the the mailing list thread where the community spoke up to say they will never maintain unity7 ?
<jbicha> seb128: if there are people that step up to maintain Unity7, but so far that community is sadly, vaporware
<seb128> we could change the maintainer info without deleting
<ogra_> xnox, the one where you told them you will remove it if no MOTU steps up
<seb128> jbicha, it's a true statement for a good part of the archive
<seb128> jbicha, why hating more on unity than e.g xdm?
<xnox> seb128, i hope you do realise that i only uploaded a bug fix to keep inidicator-datetime buildable in the current state of affairs. I did not remove indicator-datetime.
<ogra_> xnox, just blindly removinbg stuff without even giving the community a chance is pretty rude IMHO
<xnox> because we removed ubuntu-touch language packs.
<jbicha> seb128: xdm is not causing possibly difficult issues or decision for the default desktop
<seb128> jbicha, neither are indicators
<xnox> ogra_, i have not yet removed anything from unity7 stack; nor proposed or started consultation for that.
<seb128> they work under xfce and don't hurt anyone
<xnox> ogra_, i'm not sure where seb128 is getting the idea that i have already removed things without consultations =) but i am voicing my upcoming plans.
<ogra_> xnox, so why this discussion then ?
<jbicha> I don't personally hav ea problem with indicators, I do see some problems with unity-settings-daemon/conrol-center
<ogra_> xnox, voice it with the community ...
<ogra_> xnox, get feedback ... and based on that decide on removal
<xnox> ogra_, clearly you missed the convesation.... please re-read.
<seb128> jbicha, those are different topics
<xnox> seb128, if you want to keep unity7 stack in universe; when moving ubuntu-desktop to gnome-shell please create a seed / metapackage in universe of something like "unity-desktop" to make sure things don't end up unseeded in universe.
<seb128> xnox, you realize you are not in charge of that stack and don't need to have destructive plans for it right? :-)
<xnox> seb128, because at the moment, i am looking into things that are dropping out of main, become unseeded, and will not be maintained going into the future.
<xnox> seb128, i do realise that..... however i was asked to prepare lists of things to remove from the archive things that will no longer be supported.
<seb128> xnox, you should better look at things we maintain and need work :-)
<xnox> seb128, which did come through from the responsible people for it.
<jbicha> xnox: do you have any specific problem with indicators? as far as I know, they work and can be used in other desktops like GNOME Flashback (or maybe even GNOME Shell if someone wrote an extension for that)
<xnox> seb128, i guess i am weird. but i do believe ubuntu as a whole, would be in a much better shape if we did not have gtk2, qt4, python2 in the archive at all.
<seb128> xnox, yeah, would be better without libreoffice, firefox, chromium :-)
<jbicha> what concerns me more are the parts of Unity that don't work or will stop working
<xnox> jbicha, i have no problems with indicaotrs. but it seems that seb128 has a problem with me uploading a change to indicator-datetime to not build-depend on a package which no longer exists in artful; but does exist in all prior releases =)
 * mdeslaur votes for removing the kernel
<seb128> xnox, I've a problem with you uploading a package that has a vcs and not merging/submitting your changes back
<seb128> it's poor taste and team work
<xnox> seb128, but i do recognise that libreoffice, firefox, chromium are important. Hence I am subscribed to all the bugs about porting those to newer toolkits. E.g. there has been work recently on chrome front.
<jbicha> mdeslaur: it was my understanding that Security wanted to remove everything ;)
<mdeslaur> jbicha: we think our users would be better off :)
<jbicha> mdeslaur: well, at least Security would have an easier job ;)
<jbicha> xnox: I think we could almost remove gtk2 from the default 17.10 install (not sure about Firefox) LP: #1585903
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1585903 in Ubuntu GNOME "Make it possible to remove gtk2" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1585903
<xnox> seb128, my problem is, that it is entirely irrelevant in this case. as it is highly inlikely that indicator-datetime will change apart from build fixes. And the last two uploads are just that.
<xnox> it is beyond trivial change, which would be incorporated by the next upload.
<chrisccoulson> Feel free to remove anything I've worked on. Just remember to not tell me in advance
<jbicha> xnox: you're making extra work for other people by basically forcing someone else to push those build fixes to the vcs for you
<xnox> chrisccoulson, =))))))))))))
 * mdeslaur bulldozes chrisccoulson's garden
<chrisccoulson> lol
<jbicha> does everyone in the UK have a garden?
<Laney> England's green & pleasant land
<chrisccoulson> And everyone drinks tea
<oSoMoN> :)
<DalekSec> In favor of removing python2?  Byebye ubuntu-dev-tools!
<seb128> have a good w.e desktopers
<willcooke> night  seb128
<oSoMoN> seb128, thanks, you too!
<willcooke> Oh, just seen that network manager 1.8 is out, and has been for over a week
<seb128> bye willcooke oSoMoN
<willcooke> Will dig in to it more next week, because it's quitin' time
<willcooke> night all
<oSoMoN> have a good one willcooke
 * oSoMoN makes pizza
<willcooke> o/
<jbicha> wow, there was more than 30 seconds between his saying bye and leaving :)
<oSoMoN> he was indecisive
<oSoMoN> have a good week-end everyone!
<kenvandine> even faster :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-20
<jkyle> good evening!
<jkyle> weird question, but is there an easy way to disable the left/right click on a trackpad in ubuntu desktop? I mean, I know there's a way...but any leads would be great
<sarnold> jkyle: try fiddling with synclient -- iirc there's several different kinds of trackpads, and synclient works with some of them but not all. if yours doesn't work with synclient hopefully it's a reasonaable enough starting point..
<jkyle> it works great. I just don't like the split zone right click. I'd rather all clicks to be left, and 2 finger click for the context menus
<sarnold> i'm pretty sure that's expressable via synclient
<jkyle> cool, I'll start my google safari there. thanks!
<sarnold> does syclient -l output look reasonable? if it doesn't look like noise, then check out the manpage :) if it looks suspiciously like all zeros or soemthing, maybe it's not the right tool
<jkyle> synclient -l looks solid
<jkyle> retraining my motor memory is....interesting
<sarnold> oh my yes
<sarnold> I've hated half the changes I've made via synclient :)
<jkyle> synclient RightButtonAreaLeft=0 and synclient RightButtonAreaTop=0
<jkyle> does the trick
<jkyle> luckily I most live in vim and terminals...so not too much to retrain. but damn that right click button :P
<sarnold> i'm sorry to say I don't know the best way to set this up to run on login; I was always content to stuff it in the script that starts up all my terminals
<sarnold> hehehe
<jkyle> it's all about teh keywords
<jkyle> https://askubuntu.com/questions/602193/how-to-disable-right-click-on-the-touchpad
<jkyle> didn't find it till I included synclient in the search
<jkyle> so I used a tiling window manager on the mac side. looking for something for ubuntu. I'd like something that works with the default desktop and 'just works' out the box with some hotkeys for different layouts.
<jkyle> did some googling but turned up things like "first. learn haskel"
<sarnold> lol
 * sarnold patpats the xmonad fans
<sarnold> jkyle: dwm is popular but step one is changing the config in the source code before recompiling it. I used i3wm very happily for many years; before that, I used ion3 mostly-happily, but the author ragequit and others took it over as notion or notion3 or something. ratpoison is always mentioned but I don't think I ran itmore than a few hours, if at all
<sarnold> and I'm pretty sure you can run xmonad without learning haskell, but it may be harder to configure as you wish
<jkyle> mothers of necessary invention or something like that. I'll try xmonad see how far it gets me :)
<jkyle> saw i3 pop up a few times....you stopped using it? do you use it now?
<sarnold> I currently use unity7 (on the 'eat own dogfood' principle) -- it's juuuust good enough at pretending to be tiling window manager that I don't hate it, but I suspect I'll return to i3wm or give dwm another try once I upgrade to a system where unity7 isn't the default
<jkyle> so these commands I'm seeing in the i3 tut, 'apt update' instead of apt-get update and 'apt install' instead of 'apt-get install'....that's some new magic eh?
<sarnold> yeah
<sarnold> colours and progress bars and ever-so-slightly-different semantics
<jkyle> mmm I love me some arbitrary nuance to my system commands :)
<jkyle> but 4 less characters. +1
<sarnold> see the bit about motor memory :)
<sarnold> 17~18 years of sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get -u dist-upgrade   is a hard habit to break :)
<jkyle> yeah
 * ahoneybun pokes head in
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-14
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> Salut didrocks
<c-lobrano> hey, good morning :)
<didrocks> salut jibel, hey c-lobrano
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> re seb128
<seb128> re didrocks :)
<Nafallo> morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, comment Ã§a va ? passÃ© un bon w.e?
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, didrocks
<oSoMoN> I spent a couple of hours at Ikea on Saturday morning, IÂ thought I was going to die
<oSoMoN> apart from that, a good week-end :)
<seb128> don't go there in a w.e!
<didrocks> and it was in the morningâ¦ :p
<oSoMoN> yeah, never againâ¦
<willcooke> morning
<Nafallo> hey willcooke :-)
<seb128> hey willcooke, how are you?
<willcooke> hey seb128, Nafallo - doing ok
<willcooke> Nice break seb128?
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<seb128> willcooke, yeah, great week off, thx!
<andyrock> good morning!
<seb128> willcooke, how have things being for you? not too crazy post Berlin? good w.e?
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke, Nafallo, andyrock
<Laney> yo
<oSoMoN> morning Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> hey oSoMoN seb128
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> hey didrocks!!!!
<Laney> seb128: I'm good
<Laney> nice weekend, saw some friends who were visiting, did the parkrun (still super slow), went to a folk club & went climbing!
<Laney> good week off?
<Laney> & how is everybody else?
<didrocks> way better than this week-end! I was really sick and couldn't do much/sleep much
<Laney> oh man
<Laney> better now?
<didrocks> yeah, way better, hopefully, thanks! :)
<didrocks> I can at least walk :p
<Trevinho> Morning...
<oSoMoN> I'm good, had a good week-end except for that near-death experience in Ikea on Saturday morning, I barely survived
<oSoMoN> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> Trevinho, has the hackfest started?
<seb128> Laney, yeah, excellent week off, lot of walking around or sitting/relaxing in the nice weather :)
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> seb128: hiii, had a good week off?
<Laney> oSoMoN: under a pile of wardrobes?
<Trevinho> oSoMoN: nope... In an hour
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, very good indeed!
<Laney> Trevinho has brought italian culture to the UK
<oSoMoN> Laney, too much furniture, and too many people
<Laney> 10am starts!
<didrocks> Laney: could be worse, Spanish one :)
 * didrocks almost wrote "snapish"
<Trevinho> Laney: no, there's no need... Thank God Spanish guys are here :-)
<didrocks> that's why 10am, you have found a middle ground between UK and Spanish :)
<oSoMoN> Spaniards would start at 10 and go for breakfast at 10:15
<didrocks> roh :p
<seb128> oh, hackfest, that's why Trevinho is up, now it explains! :)
<seb128> Trevinho, is there an agenda for the hackfest btw?
<didrocks> roh ^2
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah in the wiki, but not defined yet
<Trevinho> seb128: also fill up the guadec doc for booking
<seb128> Trevinho, I need to catch up on those discussions, I'm all still unsure how long I'm staying, I need to look at the conf schedule (if it's available yet)
<didrocks> seb128: it's not yet
<seb128> typical GNOME :
<seb128> :/
<Trevinho> seb128: ok, try to do it asap as they said me to be quick in finalizing the booking
<didrocks> seb128: well, voting finished on Monday, delayed due to some delayed requests :p
<seb128> Trevinho, who is "they"? we don't use the travel agent this time?
<seb128> didrocks, I see
<Trevinho> seb128: clan can pay for it, while I'm your travel agent :-D
<andyrock> what's the raccomended way to get the ubuntu codename in C?
<seb128> Trevinho, k, I guess I just need to read that backlog, I just glanced over it and it seemed lot of IM-bla :p
<seb128> hey andyrock
<Laney> hey andyrock
<Laney> what for?
<andyrock> hey Laney seb128
<andyrock> we need to hide the canonical-livepatch page in gnome-initial-setup if the distro is not bionic
<andyrock> because livepatch it's not supported in non-lts
<seb128> livepatch doesn't give you an api to check supported or not?
<Laney> oh right
<Laney> wouldn't it be better for livepatch to tell you that?
<Laney> ha
<andyrock> livepatch does not have such API
<andyrock> also we would need to install livepatch before to ask
<seb128> we should request them to add one :)
<seb128> good point
<seb128> back to your question, I'm not sure what's the best way to check you are on bionic from C, maybe parsing /etc/os-release?
<andyrock> it would be a good idea to had a snap api
<seb128> right
<andyrock> I'll ask the snap team
<didrocks> I wonder if the snap shouldn't be published in the "bionic" channels
<didrocks> and not master thus
<didrocks> as it doesn't work everywhere
<didrocks> and then, you "just" request if the snap is available for you
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, I was wondering about that
<seb128> but do we have per serie channels?
<didrocks> I'm pretty sure that exists. However, I don't know if that's just a convention or it's something bundled
<seb128> or do you mean the same we are using for pre-seeded snaps?
<seb128> yeah, I don't know how "standard" it is
<didrocks> this is what replace "latest" in the track name
<didrocks> you have latest/stable/branch-name
<didrocks> here, it's release/stable/branch-name for instance
<didrocks> I think you have to request for them to open it thouh
<didrocks> though
<seb128> in any case sounds like something for the snap/livepatch team to solve
<didrocks> but that's one year old memory, do not trust me too much :)
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> it doesn't make sense to install that snap on bionic
<seb128> even from the cli
<didrocks> I guess it's something for them to consider
<didrocks> you meant on non bionic?
<seb128> I meant on cosmic
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> I still need to get used to type that one :p
 * didrocks has a name for a blog post series
<didrocks> "opening the cosmic gate" :)
<didrocks> but yeah, basically on non supported distro, you shouldn't be able to install the snap
<didrocks> (and then, I'll steal what they do and the transition path from latest to that track for communitheme snap, lalalala)
<seb128> (changing location, brb)
<willcooke> Trevinho, re: GS Connect.  You said about starting a thread on the hub.  Good idea.  Since you're busy this week, would you like me to start one - or are you happy to wait until you're back to normal working mode?
<ads20000> currently there's no way to remove a snap from someone's system, though I suspect the recent miningware incident could change that, perhaps by setting a precedent of refreshing to dummy packages, we'll see... Also maybe the livepatch snap could remain installed but it just won't do anything on non-LTS releases? Though then it is wasting data by refreshing needlessly...
<didrocks> I guess not being able to install is the best API for both users not thinking they get it activated and for andyrock to know if LP is available or not
<Trevinho> willcooke: it's fine if you start that, no worries
<willcooke> Trevinho, will do
<Trevinho> thanks
 * Laney just got blinded
<Laney> the sun crossed some threshold and started reflecting off some glossy paint directly into my eyes
<Laney> actually can't see the whole screen
<Laney> stupid daystar, turn it off please
<ogra_> just take a 12h break and it solves itself :)
<Laney> then i'll be in da club partying it up ðððððð
<Laney> (ð)
<andyrock> daystar lol
<seb128> oSoMoN, you are sure you are using the snap for g-s-m? I don't think we/security allowed the opening of help: URIs, or did that change?
<seb128> I've a few snaps that hit "user-open error: Supplied URL scheme "help" is not allowed"
<seb128> (that's in the journal)
<willcooke> Trevinho, done https://community.ubuntu.com/t/gs-connect-as-part-of-18-10/5903
<oSoMoN> seb128, d'oh, IÂ wasn't, obviously
<seb128> oSoMoN, k
<oSoMoN> I'll edit my post
<oSoMoN> is there some markup to strike through text
<Laney> oSoMoN: ~~ usually
<Laney> dunno about discourse tho
<oSoMoN> [s] and [/s] (opening and closing tags) in discourse, apparently
<oSoMoN> no more chromium updates on trusty: https://community.ubuntu.com/t/chromium-updates-on-trusty/5905
<Laney> â°ï¸
<kenvandine> firefox 60 is in the stable channel
<kenvandine> :-D
<willcooke> yay
<willcooke> oSoMoN, good post, thanks
<oSoMoN> cheers
<sergiusens> \o/
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, speaking of which, can you confirm what I'm seeing with flash? https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/how-do-you-enable-flash-plugin-on-firefox-snap/5376
<oSoMoN> gotta go pick up daughter from school, bbiab
<jbicha> seb128: hi, could you subscribe the bugs team to tracker-miners and libcue? bug 1770877 bug 1770871
<ubot5> bug 1770877 in tracker-miners (Ubuntu) "[MIR] tracker-miners" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770877
<ubot5> bug 1770871 in libcue (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libcue" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770871
<jbicha> also, except for the patch rename, are these changes fine for bionic? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/1:3.28.1-0ubuntu2
<seb128> hey jbicha
<seb128> jbicha, looks fine, if you do a SRU can you include the fix for bug #1759468 (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-control-center/merge_requests/40)
<ubot5> bug 1759468 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center (11) gtk_style_context_clear_property_cache â gtk_css_widget_node_update_style â gtk_css_node_ensure_style â gtk_css_node_ensure_style â gtk_css_node_validate_internal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759468
<ubot5-ng> seb128: Error: GNOME: Impossible to get infos for GNOME/gnome-control-center issue (Merge request) 40: 'dict' object has no attribute 'username'
<jbicha> ok, I didn't see that one, also I was going to see if the commit mentioned on LP: #1766799 fixes our bug too
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1766799 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center (ERROR) ../shell/cc-panel-list.c â 926 â cc_panel_list_set_active_panel â assertion failed â (data != NULL)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766799
<seb128> jbicha, thanks, yeah that one was also on my list
<seb128> jbicha, "    - Drop now unnecessary fonts-ubuntu dependency" ... SRU team doesn't like such change without a bug reference, so best to drop the change or create a bug
<jbicha> I've got a bug LP: #1770473 but maybe I'll mention the bug number twice or reformat the changelog :)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1770473 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu Bionic) "Don't hardcode Ubuntu font name in Settings > Details" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770473
<seb128> well I guess that's part of the first snippet
<seb128> but the changelog doesn't make that obvious
<seb128> right
<jbicha> mentioning the bug number twice wouldn't hurt if it makes things more clear :)
<seb128> right
<jbicha> seb128: could you also look at bug 1770146? I guess we should be the subscriber there too (it's replacing libappindicator in main, maybe universe too this cycle)
<ubot5> bug 1770146 in libayatana-appindicator (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libayatana-appindicator" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770146
<seb128> jbicha, I don't think desktop team has any interest is signing to maintain that stack
<seb128> what's the status of having the flavors that use indicators to switch to the ayatana variant?
<jbicha> seb128: if the Desktop team won't be the bug subscriber, who will? we do use that library for our main apps that use the GNOME Shell appindicator extension
<jbicha> Ubuntu MATE is the primary other user of appindicators, but MIR rules want a Canonical-ish team, right?
<seb128> do we? what apps got transitioned?
<seb128> well, I want to see other flavors starting using those first before we talk about MIR
<jbicha> there are 5 main apps listed in https://wiki.debian.org/Ayatana/IndicatorsTransition#Packages_in_Ubuntu_main_that_need_to_be_ported_a.s.a.p.
<seb128> I don't especially agree that the libayatana version is better maintained/tested enough
<jbicha> all are waiting in cosmic-proposed for the MIR to be approved
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> that's doing thing reverse
<seb128> also is there a transition plan for the gnome-shell extension? can it talk to apps using both libs at the same time?.
<jbicha> I don't know, sometimes people want the packages to show up in component-mismatches to prioritize handling the MIR or something ð¤·
<seb128> that's not the documented process on the MIR wiki reference
<jbicha> last cycle, I was told to do that for some of the MIRs
<seb128> I mentioned it to dok_o and slangasek agrees with me
<seb128> dok_o is not respecting the process
<seb128> (I assume he's the one that asked you that)
<seb128> anyway I'm not +1ing that MIR on hand waiving
<seb128> ideally that stack would get more testing before we consider that change
<jbicha> Locutus did the work for this transition
<seb128> right, it doesn't give us any assurance the new codebase isn't crap
<seb128> it happens that some people are eager to transition to new things even if they are less good and completly untested
<seb128> (I'm not saying in the case there, but I don't know)
<jbicha> my understanding is that libayatana-appindicator uses the same D-Bus name as libappindicator and the GNOME Shell extension just displays the stuff so it works just fine with either the Ayatana version or the classic Ubuntu version
<jbicha> but I don't have a very deep understanding of indicators at all
<seb128> my understanding is that they changed the namespace
<seb128> I argued a lot over email with the libayatana maintainer about that
<jbicha> I thought so too, but it seems to work right now
<seb128> imho that was a stupid thing they did
<seb128> maybe they fixed it
<seb128> anyway, I'm adding to my queeue
<jbicha> I agree with you that the namechange is annoying and even now, they could easily switch to the old library name that apps already use
<seb128> but not subscribing us/giving a +1 before we have a proper look
<seb128> thanks for pointing it out!
<jbicha> I guess part of the complication was that sun_weaver didn't want it to be bound to the CLA
<jbicha> and that's a Canonical thing, not much I can do there :)
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, there's a minor chromium update ready for publication in the stage PPA: 66.0.3359.170 (fixes 3 CVEs)
<oSoMoN> Laney, do you know why an octave-interval autopkgtest regression is blocking the migration of chromium-browser? http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/o/octave-interval/cosmic/amd64 . I'm not sure where that dependency comes fromâ¦
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, thanks for confirming the firefox flash issue, I'll file a bug
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, maybe it's a gtk version mismatch
<kenvandine> since that flash plugin was probably built against a much older gtk
<kenvandine> than firefox
<oSoMoN> could be, yeah
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, but it's working with the deb version of firefox
<oSoMoN> which was built against a recent gtk
<kenvandine> interesting
<kenvandine> the firefox snap is built against the 16.04 gtk
<kenvandine> maybe the opposite problem
<Laney> oSoMoN: via www-browser in some way probably
<oSoMoN> mmm, octave-interval-doc depends on w3m | www-browser, could it be what creates that dependency chain?
<oSoMoN> if so that doesn't look right, it's just a doc package that bundles html files
<Laney> it depends on something, that means and update to that something could break it
<Laney> s/and/an/
<oSoMoN> Laney, I understand the logic, but then all doc packages in the archive could depend on www-browser, and every single update would trigger an autopkgtest run of chromium-browser
<oSoMoN> that seems like a waste of resources
<Laney> it's the other way around
<Laney> and clearly you don't see a million tests running there, so it is not that
<oSoMoN> right, it's the other way around indeed, so maybe it's just octave declaring that dependency on a browser for its doc package, and it shouldn't?Â 
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, I'll check with the firefox deb in a xenial VM
<oSoMoN> it works there, maybe I need to unpack the so from the xenial package to get it working
<jbicha> html -doc packages shouldn't depend on (or even recommend) a web browser IMO
<oSoMoN> I agree
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, flash content corrupted when rendered in snap with flash plugin extracted from xenial deb, most likely because the version of gtk on xenial doesn't match the one in the gnome-3-26 PPA
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1461363
<ubot5> Mozilla bug 1461363 in Untriaged "[snap] flash plugin content not rendered" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, the firefox snap doesn't build against the PPA
<kenvandine> it's against xenial proper
<Laney> oSoMoN: that actually needed an update of autodep8; done, please retry all except for armhf which I used to test
<Laney> also
<oSoMoN> Laney, thanks
<Laney> did you guys figure out that segfault problem with the desktop launcher?
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, weird, because the firefox deb in xenial renders flash content fine, but the snap doesn't (using the flash plugin lib extracted from the xenial package)
<kenvandine> Laney, i don't think so
<Laney> blast
<Laney> was hoping to hear the cool reason
<kenvandine> Laney, in theory your reference to /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libdl.so.2 should actually be coming from core not your host system
<kenvandine> unless that's not true for classic snaps
<kenvandine> but i think it should be true
<Laney> it does
<Laney> you can check that with ldd
<kenvandine> it does come from core right?
<Laney> yep
<Laney> but then you can preload the host one to make it use that and it starts working
<Laney> which is weird but I didn't try anything more than that
<kenvandine> very weird
<kenvandine> and concerning
<Laney> that's just running the thing from /snap directly on my system btw
<kenvandine> ah
<Laney> but it still segfaults like that
<oSoMoN> jbicha, FYI https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=898646
<ubot5> Debian bug 898646 in octave-interval-doc "octave-interval-doc: doc package should not depend on a web browser" [Minor,Open]
<oSoMoN> jbicha, that was quick: https://salsa.debian.org/pkg-octave-team/octave-interval/commit/29d526d21876ff43bfe2e939e6723c63837685c4 :)
<oSoMoN> alrighty, I'm done for today, have a good evening / rest of the day everyone!
<willcooke> night
<jbicha> https://feaneron.com/2018/05/14/improving-the-development-experience-for-gnome-settings/
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-15
<robert_ancell> jbicha, yay
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<jibel> good morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut jibel, Ã§a va?
<Nafallo> morning :-)
<oSoMoN> good morning Nafallo
<jibel> oSoMoN, Ã§a va bien et toi?
<oSoMoN> un peu enrhumÃ©, mais Ã  part Ã§a bien
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> where's duflu? ;-)
<Nafallo> :-) even
<Nafallo> I wrote it three times, and still sent the wrong smiley :-/
<didrocks> hey Nafallo!
<didrocks> dufu is back on Wednesday IIRC
<Nafallo> alright. wanted to see where we stand with that annoying shift-for-the-first-character password bug :-)
<Nafallo> I have a strong feeling it's imparing my sudo now :-P
<Nafallo> either that or I need a lot more coffee.
<Nafallo> ...or both...
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> morning willcooke
<willcooke> user support question:  I had to install php on my server lat night, but it turns out that I need php5, which isn't in Bionic
<willcooke> so I found a ppa
<willcooke> But first I have to uninstall all the php7 stuff
<willcooke> if I apt remove php, it leaves behind loads of other bits and bobs
<willcooke> how do I easily remove all of those?
 * didrocks urges to tell "user questions -> #ubuntu" and then remember in extremis that willcooke is his boss of his boss :p phew!
<didrocks> I guess apt autoremove --purge gives nothing?
<willcooke> I know, total abuse of power :)
<didrocks> isn't it? ;)
<didrocks> (and alsoâ¦ firstâ¦ php???)
<willcooke> IKR
<willcooke> it makes me sad
<didrocks> I hope it does :p
<didrocks> so autoremove -> nothing?
<willcooke> so yeah, autoremove doesn't do anything
<willcooke> I was thinking apt remove php*
<didrocks> I guess it's part of the default server install, so mark as installed manuallyâ¦
<didrocks> hum, wellâ¦ you will miss libphp*
<didrocks> and maybe others
 * willcooke considers reinstalling 
<seb128> hey willcooke
<didrocks> I wonder with tasksel
<seb128> willcooke, "I need php5" sounds like the part you need to revisit :)
<didrocks> willcooke: you did install php7.2 manually or was that part of the base install?
<didrocks> because if you did that at some point, you can look at your apt installer logs
<didrocks> and see the list, then remove, ensuring it doesn't remove php5
<didrocks> seb128: I would say the same nowdays, but even without the 5 ;)
<didrocks> or have you installed lamp-server tasks directly, which pulled php 7.2?
<willcooke> seb128, lol
<willcooke> I just apt installed it
<didrocks> ah, good then
<didrocks> look at the logs
<didrocks> /var/log/apt/history.log
<didrocks> search from the line where you installed php, and you have the line of things to remove
<didrocks> ensuring it doesn't remove php5 ofc
<willcooke> kk
<willcooke> thanks didrocks
<didrocks> yw!
<didrocks> remember that you those are size limited
<didrocks> and then rolled out in history.log.1.gz, history.log.2.gzâ¦
<Laney> HEY!
<didrocks> hey Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> my laptop's doing something weird
 * Laney is on the PC now
<Laney> i'm alright thanks!
<Laney> ah Xwayland crashed
<seb128> :/
<Laney> hmm no this is weird, that happened much later
<Laney> and logind and loads of other stuff died too
<Laney> seems it hibernated due to low battery
<Laney> systemd[1]: Starting Hybrid Suspend+Hibernate...
<Laney> but then when it came back
<Laney> May 15 09:13:01 nightingale systemd-coredump[17049]: Process 6329 (systemd-logind) of user 100000 dumped core.
<willcooke> is new windows opening at the bottom of the stack a bug or a feature?
<willcooke> e.g. I very often get the message that such-and-such is ready, but the window never opens at the top
<willcooke> so I have to go and find it
<seb128> depends what you are doing
<seb128> if you are typing it might be the focus-stealing-prevention
<willcooke> ah, could be
<willcooke> I'll watch and see
<seb128> thx
<willcooke> (it's bloody annoying)
<seb128> is that always with the same app?
<seb128> also how do you open the thing that goes to the bg?
<willcooke> no, different ones
<willcooke> oh, it /could/ be that they are snaps
<seb128> is that always when started from a command line?
<willcooke> I'll get some data
<seb128> thx
<willcooke> In other news... "search domains" has been removed from settings and in to nm-connection-editor
<seb128> I don't think I ever used a search domain
<willcooke> which is probably why they removed it
<seb128> or is that the way to specify a DNS server?
<willcooke> nah, it's if your local dns server expects FQDN
<willcooke> i.e. I can't ping "mycomputername"
<willcooke> but I can ping "mycomputername.mydomain"
<seb128> .local? ;)
<willcooke> .local is evil
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> willcooke, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=744079 ... a few users share your concerns, upstream doesn't seem to care enough to have replied
<ubot5> Gnome bug 744079 in Network ""Search Domains" Section disappear in nm configuration interface" [Normal,New]
<willcooke> nm-connection-editor does the job, I guess things will gradually migrate in to settings over time
<seb128> right, it they belive it to be useful to "common" users
<seb128> let's see
 * Laney is figuring out gdm bit by bit
<Laney> it's like untangling a bowl of spaghetti
 * xnox pictures Laney tossing a bowl of spaghetti against a whiteboard to see what sticks, for it to simply start hovering in the air in the same of a moster
<Laney> it's a tasty metaphor
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> speaking of which, I saw that you and Trevinho have been working hard on the refcount/failed login issue
<seb128> Laney, is that the one you are looking atm, or doing the systemd session thing?
<Laney> second one
<seb128> k
<seb128> the ref issue seems stalled, who is "owning" it at this point?
<Laney> waiting for a review
<seb128> Trevinho, ^ you commented last, do that require halfline to review next?
<seb128> is 'needinfo' the right bug status?
<seb128> also, is he at the performance hackfest? ;)
<Trevinho> seb128, Laney: reviews and things are coming
<Trevinho> 21:55:58 <halfline> Trevinho: so i spent some time today looking at your bug and put this branch together: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gdm/log/?h=wip/weak-ref-removal
<seb128> Trevinho, great!
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, please push your packaging branches
<willcooke> hm, no calendar notifications today
<Nafallo> I got mine ;-)
<Nafallo> outlook though :-P
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-15
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 15 13:30:28 2018 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-15 | Current topic:
<didrocks> hey
<willcooke> Roll call:  andyrock (out), dgadomski (out), didrocks, duflu (hols), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter (out), trevinho (out?), robert_ancell (out)
<jbicha> o/
<jibel> hi
<kenvandine> o/
<oSoMoN> o/
<seb128> hey
<willcooke> I think we have enough people to get started
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-15 | Current topic: andyrock
<willcooke> 1. Merged upstream fix for LP: #1759468
<willcooke> 2. Port gnome-software SSO design in software-properties (ready for review)
<willcooke> 3. Fixed LP: #1766694 (Merged "upstream", needs upload in cosmic and in bionic)
<willcooke> 4. Fix proposed for LP: #1770686
<willcooke> 5. WIP: Add support to HTTP over Unix Sockets to libsoup
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1759468 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center (11) gtk_style_context_clear_property_cache â gtk_css_widget_node_update_style â gtk_css_node_ensure_style â gtk_css_node_ensure_style â gtk_css_node_validate_internal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759468
<willcooke> 6. WIP: LP: #1770694
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1766694 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) "If U1 is pre configured in g-o-a LivePatch in g-i-s fails to install" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766694
<willcooke> 7. WIP: Use SSO in gnome-software for snap purchases
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1770686 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Hide livepatch widgets in flavors without an online account panel in gnome-control-center" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770686
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1770694 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) "Hide livepatch page if it is not supported" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770694
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-15 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> 3 days week (2 days off)
<didrocks> * Communitheme:
<didrocks>   - Fix double indicators for dropbox and others in electron for communitheme session (+ some reviews and other implementations): https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/12844. Waiting for another review.
<ubot5-ng> electron bug (Pull request) 12844 in electron "fix: support multiple inherited ubuntu session for indicators" (comments: 2) [Bug :Beetle:, Platform/Linux/Ubuntu, Target/2-0-X, Open]
<didrocks>   - Lots of discussion over the hub, bugs or privately with the communitheme core team on decisions to take.
<didrocks>   - Still waiting for a classic snap allowance for communitheme-set-default: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/classic-confinement-request-communitheme-set-default/5146
<didrocks> * Telemetry:
<didrocks>   - reviewed and some typo fixes (spaces): https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubuntu-release-upgrader/add_telemetry/+merge/345088. Waiting for another review.
<didrocks> * Snapd:
<didrocks>   - finally got a review on multiple PATH being inserted in some sessions. Made a change to account for comments. https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5075. Waiting for another review.
<ubot5-ng> snapcore bug (Pull request) 5075 in snapd "snap/env: fix env duplication logic" (comments: 2) [Simple, Open]
<didrocks> * Misc:
<didrocks>   - Ubuntu dock trash icon and device feature PR review and feedbacks + discussed with upstream about some proposed and specific to Ubuntu Dock optimizations.
<didrocks>   - Fix byobu GNOME Shell application matching: https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/byobu/gnome-shell-app-detect/+merge/345291. Waiting for a review.
<didrocks>   - Guadec: provided some extract for a submission, voting on talks
<didrocks>   - GNOME board: travel committee discussions and other GNOME board activitiesâ¦
<didrocks> .
<willcooke> Dustin will be happy, thanks Didrocks!
<didrocks> I hope he will :)
<seb128> did I disconnect?
<seb128> $ping channel? :p
<Laney> no
<kenvandine> seb128, no
<jibel> seb128, pong
<seb128> k, seems willcooke is lagging
<seb128> he's the only chair, we can't move ahead without screwing the bot/log/topics
<seb128> #chair seb128
<seb128> I guess that doesn't work
<didrocks> doesn't look like it doesâ¦
<seb128> #stupidbot
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> k, screw the topics then
<seb128> let's move on and record the meeting under didrocks' activity log :)
<didrocks> \o/
<kenvandine> lol
<kenvandine> didrocks ftw
<seb128> duflu is off and I don't think he sent a status update
<seb128> #topic jbicha
<seb128> jibel, your turn
<jbicha> â¢ Change build option to enable New Tab in GNOME Terminal LP: #1747171
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1747171 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu Bionic) ""New Tab" disappeared from the GNOME Terminal menu" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1747171
<jbicha> â¢ Got Ubuntu Studio cosmic daily ISOs building again by temporarily dropping mypaint from their seed/metapackage. See Debian bug 894757
<ubot5> Debian bug 894757 in libmypaint-common "libmypaint-common: file conflict with mypaint-data" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/894757
<jbicha> â¢ Filed MIRs for tracker LP: #1770877 LP: #1770874 LP: #1770871
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1770877 in tracker-miners (Ubuntu) "[MIR] tracker-miners" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770877
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1770874 in libgsf (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libgsf" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770874
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1770871 in libcue (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libcue" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770871
<jbicha> â¢ Major libcue packaging update as part of the tracker MIRs
<jbicha> â¢ Synced gnome-shell-extension-appindicator from Debian
<jbicha> â¢ More GNOME 3.28.2 packaging and some 18.04 SRUs
<jbicha> â¢ Several gnome-control-center fixes https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/1:3.28.1-0ubuntu2
<jbicha> ð©âð¦
<willcooke> I'm back
<seb128> thanks jbicha
<willcooke> for now
<seb128> willcooke, wb
<willcooke> thanks seb128 jbicha
<seb128> k, well I couldn't change the topic
<willcooke> kk
<willcooke> #topic jamesh
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-15 | Current topic: jamesh
<willcooke> snapd/portals:
<willcooke>  - Ran end-to-end tests for file open/save operations using portals,
<willcooke> and wrote up results here:
<willcooke> https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/snapd-support-for-xdg-desktop-portal/161/9?u=jamesh
<willcooke>  - The PR has two approvals, so hopefully we can get it merged soon:
<willcooke> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5115
<ubot5-ng> snapcore bug (Pull request) 5115 in snapd "interfaces: add xdg-document-portal support to desktop interface" (comments: 4) [Open]
<willcooke>  - Still up in the air is how to auto-start xdg-document-portal: can't
<willcooke> rely on confined app starting it on demand because we want it's mount
<willcooke> point available while snap-confine is running.  I talked to zyga,
<willcooke> about the best way to proceed: either have "snap run" activate it, or
<willcooke> have "snap userd" do it if we are certain "snap run" will launch
<willcooke> userd.
<willcooke>  - While doing the testing, I noticed xdg-desktop-portal-gtk (the
<willcooke> service GUI operations are delegated to) was failing on Wayland.  It
<willcooke> looks like the wayland socket connection is being shut down from the
<willcooke> other end for some reason I haven't yet tracked down.  Not a problem
<willcooke> for our default 18.04 install, but it'd be good to discover the root
<willcooke> cause.
<willcooke>  - Some portals like notifications are not functional due to desktop
<willcooke> file ID mismatches.  Fixing this will probably require an
<willcooke> xdg-desktop-portal change, probably with a "snap" command to provide
<willcooke> the needed metadata.  We still have a large amount of functionality
<willcooke> working with current xdg-desktop-portal upstream though.
<willcooke> snapd/evolution-data-server:
<willcooke>  - I'm adapting some of the EDS address book example code into some
<willcooke> utilities I can put into a test snap to write spread tests for Ken's
<willcooke> EDS snapd interfaces.  When I've got that basically working, I'll see
<willcooke> if I can adapt it to test the calendar backend too.
<willcooke>  - Once the tests are in place, I'll push through a PR to get the new
<willcooke> interfaces in snapd master.
<willcooke> #topic jibel / heber
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-15 | Current topic: jibel / heber
<jibel> hi
<jibel> - Post release installer and upgrade bug triaging:
<jibel>   - Main issues with the installer:
<jibel>     - Performing a EFI installation on top of an existing legacy installation
<jibel>     - Installer crash when there is an existing installation with an encrypted home (bug 1767799)
<ubot5> bug 1767799 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with reuse home and existing encrypted home - 'PageGtk' object has no attribute 'error_dialog'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767799
<jibel>   - Main issue with upgrades:
<jibel>     - Triggers loop during upgrade
<jibel> - Enabling automated tests for Cosmic.
<jibel> eof
<willcooke> thanks jibel
<willcooke> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-15 | Current topic: kenvandine
<kenvandine> * Found the simple-scan classic snap was crashing on launch, spent some time fixing that.
<kenvandine> * Attempted to update gnome-calendar and gnome-contacts classic snaps to latest upstream versions and found missing dep on libdazzle from our backport.  Getting an appropriate version of libdazzle building on the gnome-3-26 backport seems problematic, we should probably just wait for 18.04 builds.
<kenvandine> * Sponsored SRU for latest flatpak release to bionic
<kenvandine> * Prepared "Preview" version of the desktop-preinstalled hyperv image for publishing in the gallery
<kenvandine> â¾
<willcooke> thanks kenvandine
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-15 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> â¢ started again on systemd --user work, first new task is to figure out how to make GDM work in this scenario, so spending some time studying its code, this is me for the next few weeks
<Laney> â¢ did a bit of documenting / discussing around the git workflow
<Laney> â¢ got pinged about a debhelper bug in bionic by Niels, SRUed that
<Laney> â¢ Followed inf_inity's advice on #1768541 (rls bug) and uploaded a fix, also to cosmic
<Laney> â¢ autopkgtest - amqp went down which broke most things, worked to recover it. It turns out that we had tons of kernel updates piled up on the system which eventually ran it out of space, at which point rabbitmq was very unhappy. After that I spent some time checking all the other machines weren't going to die in the same way.
<Laney> â rbalint is trying to SRU a new version of unattended-upgrades which autoremoves kernels ð
<Laney> â¢ some work on the gdm login bug I think, or was that last week?
<Laney> ð» in honour of my "sunzilla" seedlings which are looking strong ð¸
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic oSoMoN
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-15 | Current topic: oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey
<oSoMoN> â¢ firefox
<oSoMoN>   â filed https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1461363
<ubot5> Mozilla bug 1461363 in Untriaged "[snap] flash plugin content not rendered" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<oSoMoN> â¢ chromium
<oSoMoN>   â still working on a snap built from source
<oSoMoN>   â reached out to security team and commercial stakeholders to confirm that it's okay to stop pushing updates for chromium on trusty, and focus on the snap instead, then posted a public announcement: https://community.ubuntu.com/t/chromium-updates-on-trusty/5905
<oSoMoN>   â updated stable channel to 66.0.3359.139 then 66.0.3359.170
<oSoMoN>   â updated beta channel to 67.0.3396.40
<oSoMoN>   â updated dev channel to 68.0.3423.2
<oSoMoN>   â filed and fixed bug #1771162
<ubot5> bug 1771162 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "[snap] Can't use the flash plugin" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771162
<oSoMoN>   â added removable-media plug (bug #1769495)
<ubot5> bug 1769495 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "[snap] Chromium snap should ask for "removable-media" interface" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1769495
<seb128> (bah, was typing something for Laney, missed my chance, going back to that in aob)
<oSoMoN> â¢ libreoffice
<oSoMoN>   â promoted 6.0.4.2 snap to stable channel
<oSoMoN> â¢ other
<oSoMoN>   â filed https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=898646 which got fixed right away
<ubot5> Debian bug 898646 in octave-interval-doc "octave-interval-doc: doc package should not depend on a web browser" [Minor,Open]
<oSoMoN> ð
<willcooke> thanks oSoMoN
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-15 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ one week off work, that was nice
<seb128> â¢ back since yesterday, mostly spend the day catching up with emails/trello board/new cycle planning
<seb128> â¢ looked a bit at the hyperv image to help Ken with some issues
<seb128> </thisweek>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-15 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - Land gnome-initial-setup translatable Ubuntu changes page + other small fixes
<willcooke> - Confirmed gnome-initial-setup 3.28.0-2ubuntu6.1 SRU bugs
<willcooke> - Investigated Snap support in BuildStream
<willcooke> - Chasing down a PackageKit / debconf crasher in GNOME Software (LP: #1722185)
<willcooke> - Attended GNOME Stakeholders meeting
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1722185 in packagekit (Ubuntu) "gnome-software (11) g_io_channel_shutdown â pk_client_helper_copy_stdout_cb â g_main_dispatch â g_main_context_dispatch â g_main_context_iterate" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1722185
<willcooke> #topic people who might be here or might not
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-15 | Current topic: people who might be here or might not
<willcooke> Trevinho are you around for the meeting? I assume not
<willcooke> Till isn't
<willcooke> timeout in 30 seconds
<willcooke> #topic rls bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-15 | Current topic: rls bugs
<willcooke> Ok, let's go through the bugs which have been tagged for B
<willcooke> aaaand I've lost the link, Laney do you have it to hand?
<willcooke> Ah,
<willcooke> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<Laney> zat iz ze badger
<seb128> not a lot of tagging happened it seems :/
<willcooke> Hm, I think we have bugs missing for that list
<willcooke> let's review what is there, and then let's get that list updated
<seb128> yeah, sorry, I meant to review things but I've just been too busy since yesterday
<willcooke> 1st up:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cryptsetup/+bug/1765724
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1765724 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Xenial -> Bionic - System fails to boot after upgrade - gnome-screensaver & gnome-shell fail to start?" [Undecided,New]
<jbicha> now that cosmic opened, I just target bugs for bionic directly, so -tracking- instead of -incoming-
<Laney> that's OK if you are uploading the fix
<Laney> if you want to suggest someone works on it, not so much
<willcooke> yeah, lets use incoming for now
<jbicha> Triaged means that someone should feel free to work on it, In Progress means the fix is already in unapproved queue
<seb128> 51 o tracking
<seb128> DOH
<willcooke> Let's review that tracking list off line
<Laney> oh come on, don't mess around with the process please :/
<Laney> anyway, jibel's bug, what do you think?
<willcooke> Is it a foundations issue?
<seb128> xnox's asked questions and seemed to be looking at it
<seb128> also what willcooke said
<Laney> no
<seb128> no?
<Laney> look at the tasks, those are invalid
<willcooke> ah
<seb128> I don't understand why
<Laney> looks like he looked at logs and decided it was something on the session side
<Laney> if you want to argue, skip considering it?
<willcooke> needs more investigation I think, who can look at that?
<seb128> xnox, could you write on bug #1765724 which you think it's a gnome-shell issue?
<ubot5> bug 1765724 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Xenial -> Bionic - System fails to boot after upgrade - gnome-screensaver & gnome-shell fail to start?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765724
<willcooke> k, we can either talk about that some more here in a mo, or come back to it next week
<willcooke> what do you want to do about the tracking bugs?  Go through them here and now?
<seb128> I would remove it from the list at this point
<seb128> it's not clear it's an important issue
<willcooke> seb128, let's see what x_nox says and then Ill tidy it up
<seb128> it has no other reporters/duplicates
<seb128> k
<seb128> it's impossible to clean the tracking list
<seb128> that's a mix of SRU uploaded and other things
<seb128> we should really gate the review on -incoming
<seb128> jbicha, ^ please stick to the defined process
<jbicha> where is this defined
<xnox> seb128, in a call now; will do in a bit.
<seb128> xnox, thx
<willcooke> ok, so for next week let's get the bugs we know about and are working on tagged so that we can review them next time
<seb128> jbicha, that's a fair point, but not an useful reply at the same time
<jbicha> for instance, is there anything wrong with how I filed bug 1769637 except for the part where I didn't get around to actually uploading to bionic?
<ubot5> bug 1769637 in evolution-data-server (Ubuntu Bionic) "Update evolution-data-server to 3.28.2" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1769637
<willcooke> lets talk process after the meeting
<seb128> no, and if you are working on it the nomination is fine
<seb128> k
<jbicha> I don't think I need to ask permission first before targeting to bionicâ¦
<Laney> If you want to work on it, you can assign it to yourself
<Laney> I don't think there's anything wrong with nominating in that situation
<willcooke> anything else meeting wise?
<seb128> #aob?
<Laney> but for things that other people are going to work on, use incoming
<jbicha> what if I'm not working on it like bug 1768555?
<ubot5> bug 1768555 in gnome-calendar (Ubuntu Bionic) "Update gnome-calendar to 3.28.2" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768555
<willcooke> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-15 | Current topic: aob
<Laney> use incoming, and we can decide to assign someone or not
<seb128> Laney, you wrote " â¢ did a bit of documenting / discussing around the git workflow"
<Laney> I did
<seb128> I know you wrote about that on the hub, but might be worth sharing the URL here?
<Laney> to the hub post?
<jbicha> ok, I can do that but I'm pretty sure that's a difference process than we had been using for SRUs, anyway, I can adapt to change :)
<seb128> or the wiki you used
<Laney> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/desktop-deb-packages-migration-to-git/5746/4
<seb128> thx
<Laney> does that go to a specific post?
<seb128> just making it easy for people to go and read it :)
<Laney> maybe remove the last bit
<Laney> ok
<seb128> thx Laney
<willcooke> any more for any more?
<jbicha> https://trello.com/c/R7JSYTT8/45-use-ubuntu-langpacks-for-gnome-universe
<seb128> jbicha, I +1ed to use them for universe
<seb128> if nobody objects I think we should just do it
<jbicha> everyone else fine with that?
<Laney> didn't we want to try to reduce the iso size?
<seb128> good point
<seb128> let me have a look to the size diff
<seb128> I believe that most of those .mo are small
<Laney> it's probably not that much in this case
<Laney> but you know...
<Laney> s/this/each/
<seb128> right
<seb128> and we probably don't patch those apps
<seb128> at least not to add Ubuntu specific strings
<jbicha> right
<seb128> jbicha, do you have a list of packages we are talking about?
<jbicha> I think the idea was for all "apps" in Debian GNOME unless you had a reason to be more selective
<seb128> bah, I'm undecided now :p
<jbicha> ok, let's defer to later then
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> I'm going to have a look to the size we are talking about for next week
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> let's decide then
<seb128> yw
<seb128> other things I had a question about
<Laney> it's just weird to be taking stuff out with one hand and putting things in with the other
<seb128> right
<seb128> Robert had that line " - Attended GNOME Stakeholders meeting"
<seb128> does anyone know what stackeholder/meeting that is?
<seb128> and what is discussed in those meetings?
<willcooke> The one on Monday nights
<seb128> is that an upstream/downstream thing?
<kenvandine> Probably GNOME Software
<willcooke> it's a desktop, store, advocatory meeting
<seb128> ah
<willcooke> advocacy
<kenvandine> that's the weekly meeting with advocacy, store, etc
<seb128> GNOME software
<willcooke> ah yeah
<seb128> and Ubuntu specific then
<kenvandine> yes
<willcooke> yes
<seb128> k, nevermind me then
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> I though it was talking to upstream
<seb128> the title was misleading
<seb128> "GNOME stakeholders"
<seb128> that was all from me
<willcooke> anyone else?
<xnox> seb128, right, i remember that now. Have we managed to reproduce this? It would be nice to e.g. use willcooke's laptop on which we implemented "rim & reboot" to e.g. install home-encrypted install using e.g. 16.04.4 iso; upgrade to bionic; and check that it still works fine.
<willcooke> xnox, I can do testing
<xnox> seb128, the actual bug report there is messy. and it is not clear if "ecryptfs /home xenial -> bionic" is busted for everyone, or just that weird machine.
<seb128> willcooke, let's wrap the meeting and discuss that boot issue?
<willcooke> ack
<xnox> oh sorry.
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 15 14:11:00 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2018/ubuntu-desktop.2018-05-15-13.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> xnox, np, we needed to end anyway
<seb128> xnox, jibel reported the bug
<xnox> right
<seb128> jibel, is that easy to reproduce or did you hit the case with a specific install?
<xnox> seb128, so it's probably for realz....
<xnox> there is tiny amount of hope it is jibel-only able to discover races =)
<xnox> i believe i did retest this, and it did work fine for me, but for me the passwords were matching between login & end system. I guess i can retry with non-matching passwords too
<jbicha> seb128: actually for bug 1768555, it's fixed for cosmic so the normal way is to actually nominate it for bionic
<ubot5> bug 1768555 in gnome-calendar (Ubuntu) "Update gnome-calendar to 3.28.2" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768555
<seb128> xnox, in any case, what made you believe the issue is due to gnome-shell? that package has nothing to do with boot nor init
<jbicha> if we just add a tag to a Fix Released bug, no one will see it
<seb128> xnox, k, let us know if you need more details
<xnox> seb128, reading the logs, there was a lot of failures, none of which were about ecryptfs. E.g. things failing over themself.
<xnox> seb128, and i did retest ecryptfs-alone, and it went fine for me.
<seb128> k, well I guess we need to provide a more detailled way to trigger the issue then
<seb128> jibel, ^ can you do that?
<xnox> seb128, as in during dist-upgrade things failed to connect to the X server. failing to talk over dbus to org.gnome stuff, logind sessions dissapearing, just genenuely all the things collapsing =/ it did not look like a healthy, nor successful fully completed upgrade.
<xnox> which may be also a bug in itself....
 * xnox ponders if there was non-English locale involved
<seb128> ah, that could be
<seb128> in session upgrades "fun"
<xnox> seb128, this bug report is very much "untrianged" still.
<seb128> willcooke, sounds like we should untag to me, unless we can provide clear steps that reproduce the issue and which sound like they could hit normal user in their upgrade
<seb128> xnox, ^
<seb128> jbicha, right, which whoever does the SRU can do when they upload
<jbicha> seb128: that would mean there is no tracking at all for these bugs that are fixed in cosmic but not in bionic. What problem exactly are you trying to solve here?
<seb128> jbicha, willcooke, Laney, looks like foundations also have a lot of unassigned bugs on their -tracking page, it's probably worth having a discussion with them about when we expect that workflow to work for SRUs
<seb128> jbicha, the same as we do pre-release, having a way for people to propose things to targets and be able to accept/deny them
<Laney> we could decide to treat unassigned bugs on tracking the same as incoming
<jbicha> I think a lot of potential SRUs are just whether someone feels like doing the work, not that we reject many of them
<Laney> we want a way to prioritise and track bug work, this is what we're using
<jbicha> so maybe I just need to assign myself to SRUs that I am actually working on
<Laney> makes sense
<seb128> that would be useful
<willcooke> seb128, I'm going to set up a regular meeting with Foundations.  I'll get that sorted today
<seb128> willcooke, ah, right, thx :)
<jbicha> andyrock: just wanted to make sure you saw my comment on bug 1759468
<ubot5> bug 1759468 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center (11) gtk_style_context_clear_property_cache â gtk_css_widget_node_update_style â gtk_css_node_ensure_style â gtk_css_node_ensure_style â gtk_css_node_validate_internal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759468
<seb128> jbicha, he's on holidays
<seb128> & travelling
<jbicha> seb128: ok, I'm thinking about doing the g-c-c SRU without that bug then
<seb128> jbicha, please don't, I just updated the bug to be SRU compliant
<seb128> jbicha, did the code change that much since 3.28 than you can't figure out how to rebase the patch?
<seb128> jbicha, in any case andyrock should be back online tomorrow, so wait until there to see if he can do the rebase
<jbicha> lol, I can totally wait until tomorrow :)
<jbicha> I wasn't able to duplicate that crash btw with the test case
<seb128> it's a race, so depends if you are lucky or not
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/commit/f07d125e3ba4d1175ab8f4615e453a933e2fffa7 caused a regression in the chromium snap: bug #1771385
<ubot5> bug 1771385 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "[snap] 66.0.3359.170 in candidate channel renders fonts incorrectly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771385
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, damn...
<kenvandine> greyback, ^^^ any ideas why?
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, or do you know why?
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, not yet, I'm looking into it
<jibel> xnox, seb128 it is not reproducible anymore. I'll try another way tomorrow.
<oSoMoN> daughter back from school, play time. I'll get back to it in the evening
<willcooke> night all
<greyback> kenvandine: I'm not sure why, as I read the previous code, fontconfig was reading the file from the snap that has incorrect paths to fonts, not the generated file with correct paths
<greyback> kenvandine: without that patch, my chromium kiosk crashes (is fork of oSoMoN's work that runs chromium on Mir on Core)
<greyback> ah, oSoMoN has a fix proposed already
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-16
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN, didrocks, seb128
<seb128> hey duflu
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> duflu, how are things? thanks for the trello/work summary email!
<didrocks> hey duflu, re seb128
<duflu> seb128, you're welcome I think. Just nervous about that information getting duplicated outside on Trello now. So some of it will soon be out of date
<seb128> duflu, I don't think we are duplicating anything?
<duflu> seb128, only in email, if you count that
<seb128> duflu, the emails are just to make sure that everyone is aware of what they have to do and also have an estimate of how much work they think they have/how long each feature will take, the trello isn't good at helping us with that
<seb128> that helps me to see if team members could take on extra work or already have more than enough for the cycle
<duflu> Yes, fair enough. I will stop short of suggesting Gantt charts :)
<seb128> haha
<seb128> planner is on the list of things to remove since it still uses gconf
<seb128> that's the only gantt tool I tried on debian/ubuntu :)
<duflu> seb128, is the difference between pending and current some smoke tests to pass? http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily-live/
<seb128> duflu, yes
<seb128> I never remember where the log for those test is though :/
<didrocks> same
<duflu> seb128, jibel would know...
<duflu> ?
<seb128> yes
<jibel> duflu, logs are there https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/ but I didn't finish enabling smoke tests for cosmic yet
<duflu> jibel, no worries. I will come back to it at a later date
<willcooke> duflu, no koza yet - so I assume no BT meeting
<duflu> willcooke, not sure. Once or twice he went straight into the meeting without logging into IRC. Although my only relevant comments are in the status report
<willcooke> duflu, I have nothing at this point either.  Want to try the bluez snap path again, and heber is lined up to look in to that some more
<willcooke> until then, nothing from me
<duflu> willcooke, also I will wait for cosmic smoke tests to pass before confusing the situation with a proposed update
<duflu> The most vocal users in favor of 5.49 already have it via the PPA, and are happy
<willcooke> +1 thx
<duflu> willcooke, in other news upstream PulseAudio fixed BT audio skipping this week (after some years)
<seb128> I don't think we need to wait for the iso to be current to update bluez
<duflu> Will backport that too
<seb128> but as you prefer
<duflu> seb128, I prefer it to be usable before my dev machine uses it :)
<seb128> we also have no hurry to update, it's not like cosmic had lot of users and that they needed it
<seb128> right
<duflu> seb128, I should have just said that I won't propose an update to cosmic until I have tested it on cosmic :)
<seb128> that makes sense :)
<didrocks> bluetooth always on on startup while you disable it in the previous boot is a feature/bug?
<seb128> Trevinho, those gdm fixes, they seem a bit much for a SRU no? do you think there would be an easier way to fix the issue for bionic?
<seb128> didrocks, I would say it's a bug but I'm unsure
<seb128> or lack of feature to restore the status
<didrocks> I would expect the previous enablement state to persist as well
<Trevinho> seb128: hey, the pure fix is just two lines... Or one. It's in the 1st commit
<Trevinho> I'll cherry pick them once landed
<seb128> Trevinho, good morning :)
<seb128> Trevinho, great, thanks!
<didrocks> hey Trevinho
<seb128> Trevinho, how is the hackfest going?
<Laney> yo
<didrocks> hey Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<seb128> didrocks, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=638117#c36 sounds like it should work
<ubot5> Gnome bug 638117 in general "Remember off/on state between sessions" [Normal,Resolved: notgnome]
<Laney> salut french
<Laney> alright, it stopped being nice weather though
<didrocks> would be great to see if someone else reproduce, to see if it's config related or not
<didrocks> still unnice weather here
<Laney> went out for the daily sawfly removal session and it was windy
<willcooke> Laney, what are the flies eating?
<Laney> the gooseberry and redcurrant bush leaves
<Laney> https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=517
<Laney> these jerks
<willcooke> so they strip the leaves and the plant dies?
<willcooke> little buggers
<seb128> didrocks, https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/8590
<ubot5-ng> systemd bug 8590 in systemd "Bluetooth state not respected between reboots (is on even if on previous boot I turned it off)" (comments: 2) [Needs-Reporter-Feedback â, Rfkill, Open]
<ubot5> bug 8470 in linux-source-2.6.15 (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #8590 Oops caused by ipw2200 driver" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8470
<Laney> I never let it get that far enough, but I guess so
<didrocks> seb128: nice finding foo! :)
<seb128> :)
<Laney> actually this year we caught the first lot quite early on so it's only been a few leaves
<didrocks> ok, keeping the tab opened
<didrocks> logged what happens in the journal when shutting down bluetooth
<didrocks> tomorrow, at next boot, I'll file the rfkill info + anything I can find about bluetooth
<seb128> good, I'm going to try that as well/see if it's persistant on my machine, I let you know next time I reboot
<didrocks> th!
<didrocks> thx*
<Laney> back in a bit, got some errands to do </seb128>
<seb128> :)
<Trevinho> seb128: sorry I was walking to the venue...
<Trevinho> seb128: pretty good, lots of things planned more than done, but we've good plans at least
<seb128> nice
<seb128> good improvements?
<Trevinho> hopefully :), a good one which is almost done is the one about killing the g-s on gdm when logged in, so that it won't stay there for no reason
<seb128> Trevinho, ah, is somebody working on that?
<seb128> that would be great
<seb128> they start catching up with unity :p
<ads20000> 'they' I mean, isn't this pretty much 'we' given Didier is a Board member ;)
<duflu> Oops. Drank afternoon coffee and missed dinner.
<duflu> Later all
<didrocks> Wimpress: by any chance, have you ever tried to POST manually without ubuntu-report to the database? We have 4 records which are a little bit weird. distro is "ubuntu-mate" (and that doesn't exist, as it's the ID in os-release, which is ubuntu whenever flavor you are running), variant is hardcoded "desktop" for now, but it's set to "ubuntu", and version isn't the version id (like 18.04) but "desktop"
<didrocks> they were ran in a mate session as well :)
<didrocks> (+ another record with correct variant, but distro still manually set to ubuntu-mate)
<andyrock> good morning!
<didrocks> hey andyrock!
<seb128> hey andyrock, how are you? had a good flight?
<andyrock> yeah long but all good
<seb128> where are you exactly?
<andyrock> medellin
<Trevinho> He follows his teacher ð
<andyrock> jbicha, seb128: btw I'm preparing an MP for gnome-control-center 3-28
<andyrock> we need a modified (and simpler patch)
<jbicha> cool, great
<seb128> andyrock, thanks
<seb128> andyrock, hope you enjoy south america :)
<Wimpress> didrocks Almost certainly me (the human) dicking around with ubuntu-report but not interaction between Welcome and ubuntu-report
<andyrock> jbicha: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-control-center/merge_requests/49/diffs
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 49 in gnome-control-center "night-ligth-dialog: Avoid dereferencing invalid pointer" (comments: 0) [Opened]
<andyrock> I'm also preparing a new to fix the random warnings
<didrocks> Wimpress: ok, I think those were some direct curl usage, as in https://BASE_URL/distro/variante/version, you can only change BASE_URL from the tool
<jbicha> andyrock: ok, I'll wait for that one then :)
<andyrock> jbicha: and this one https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-control-center/merge_requests/50/diffs?commit_id=475548d0c9ea5814d8aabc11317466011146c767
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 50 in gnome-control-center "night-light-dialog: Ignore G_IO_ERROR_CANCELLED errors" (comments: 0) [Opened]
<andyrock> the second MP includes both commits to avoid rebasing
<andyrock> jbicha, seb128 also if you could take care of this: https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/gnome-shell/fix-1768786/+merge/345203
<seb128> andyrock, I don't know much about this patch but the commit message is confusing "Inhibit suspend if...screen lock on suspend is enabled "
<seb128> why would we inhibit suspend?
<andyrock> to lock before
<andyrock> once it's locked we unhibit it
<andyrock> the problem is that if you disable automatic login we still want to inhibit the suspend before
<andyrock> because in ubuntu the lock on suspend is managed by another gsettings key
<seb128> k, so "Inhibit suspend" is "Inhibit suspend until the screen is locked"?
<seb128> andyrock, ^
<seb128> andyrock, jbicha, the fix makes sense to me, I'm a bit unsure why we have that patch though. Upstream is not locking the screen on suspend? that seems a bit weird ot me
<seb128> or is that about allowing to disable the locking on suspend?
<jibel> FYI, automated smoke tests for cosmic are activated and first desktop image promoted to cosmic
<seb128> nice!
<jibel> and upgrades from bionic too
<seb128> duflu left but maybe he noticed tomorrow :)
<jibel> I'm sure he will
<andyrock> seb128: guess we just need to replace or with and: "I"nhibit suspend if automatic screen lock is disabled and screen lock on suspend is enabled
<andyrock> right now if automatic screen lock is disabled  we don't inhibit the suspend
<andyrock> we should if screen lock on suspend is enabled
<seb128> right
<seb128> I was just speaking about the wording of the changelog entry
<seb128> it's a bit confusing as it is atm
<andyrock> seb128: so replacing or with and is fine for you?
<andyrock> that's what I did in the first place and for some reason I changed it later
<seb128> andyrock, let me read it again :p
<Laney> use more words
<seb128> andyrock, that patch doesn't inhibit suspend, it only does until the screen is locked no?
<seb128> I would stick to what I suggested
<seb128> "Inhibit suspend until the screen is locked"
<seb128> if that's what it does
<seb128> then you can add the context
<seb128> "Inhibit suspend until the screen is locked also in the case where <...> is used"
<seb128> or something around those lines
<seb128> popey, hey, can you approve https://community.ubuntu.com/t/canned-response-to-forwarding-files-bugs-upstream/5829/3?
<andyrock> seb128: kk
<seb128> andyrock, thx
<kenvandine> anyone know about oem-config-prepare?
<kenvandine> Laney, ^^ maybe?
<Laney> bit open ended :-)
<kenvandine> it's blowing up because there is no oem user, wondering how that should be created
<seb128> the question to be more specific, is does anyone know what creates the oem user/session that is used on first boot after installation?
<kenvandine> Created symlink /etc/systemd/system/default.target â /lib/systemd/system/oem-config.target.
<kenvandine> sudo: unknown user: oem
<kenvandine> sudo: unable to initialize policy plugin
<seb128> the context is that custom microsoft image, which is not built using ubiquity
<seb128> the way it works in the ubiquity workflow is that it boots first into a temp oem user where the prepare icon on the desktop is clicked on after tweaking
<seb128> we want to do that in the image build automatically there
<seb128> should the build just adduser oem and start the prepare command then?
<kenvandine> yeah, which prepare seems to be trying to sudo oem
<seb128> or is there more magic to set up things?
<kenvandine> i was surprised there was nothing in livecd-rootfs and ubiquity related to the oem user
<kenvandine> that i could find
<Laney> I think ubiquity creates it in oem_config mode
<Laney> it pilots that page of the installer
<Laney> one second, let me find the right bit
<Laney> https://git.launchpad.net/ubiquity/tree/ubiquity/plugins/ubi-usersetup.py#n219
<popey> seb128: done
<seb128> popey, thanks
<kenvandine> Laney, thx
<kenvandine> so i guess i just need to create the user myself
<Laney> this thing is using the oem mode somehow?
<Laney> I thought it was just supposed to boot to a preinstalled desktop
<kenvandine> Laney, yeah, but we want oem-config to run
<kenvandine> to setup the user, etc
<kenvandine> i had it running g-i-s via gdm, which worked well
<kenvandine> but then we didn't get ubuntu welcome
<Laney> alright
<kenvandine> Laney, so the oem user should be a regular user, probably uid 1000 right?
<kenvandine> then oem-config changes properties on it?
<Laney> don't think it should be 1000, that's the real user's uid
<kenvandine> ok
<Laney> look at ok_handler
<kenvandine> i see it now
<kenvandine> thx
<Laney> no problemo
<jbicha> kenvandine: you could maybe hack g-i-s to still run the welcome wizard after logging in after completing new user mode
<jbicha> it might be a little annoying for GNOME users but we don't really have GNOME users for the new user mode
<jbicha> kenvandine: or â I forget if I mentioned it to you â but have you seen bug 1762287?
<ubot5> bug 1762287 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) "Offer Ubuntu customizations in new user mode too" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762287
<seb128> LocutusOfBorg, hey, do you know how much libayatana-appindicator has been tested in other distros/desktops and where? and did they still use a different dbus namespace that libappindicator? if so how do things like unity or the gnome-shell extension handle the mix of client apps using one or the other?
<jbicha> sunweaver: ^ :)
<seb128> jbicha, who is he?
<Laney> The Debian maintainer
<jbicha> upstream. He is perhaps the Debian version of flexion (maintainer for Debian MATE)
<seb128> k, thx
<seb128> jbicha, do you know if webkit2gtk strings are being displayed in user facing UIs? seems like we don't have much translations for it/launchpad import didn't work in bionic (https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+source/webkit2gtk)
<jbicha> seb128: yes there are user strings. A simple test case is in Settings > Online Accounts and click to add a new Google account. The right-click options aren't translated in French
<seb128> jbicha, ok, i'm adding that one to my list then :)
<seb128> thx!
<jbicha> no templates available for xenial?
<seb128> was that package source/name changed in between series?
<seb128> or between xenial and xenial-security?
<jbicha> not really, but it only entered main in Feb 2016
<jbicha> seb128: um, maybe it's as simple as that we don't built it --with translations or --with gnome
<jbicha> here's the proposed fix for cosmic: https://salsa.debian.org/webkit-team/webkit/merge_requests/1
<ubot5-ng> WebKIt bug (Merge request) 1 in webkit "Build with gnome-pkg-tools for Ubuntu language packs" (comments: 0) [Opened]
<jbicha> ubot5-ng: why do you capitalize webkit like that?
<ubot5> jbicha: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ubot5-ng> jbicha: Error: "why" is not a valid command.
<Laney> it's not the bot; the project/team/thing is capitalised in that way
<jbicha> thanks :)
<jibel> tsimonq2, did you try todays lubuntu image? I get bug 1754174 with automated ubiquity tests of Ubuntu.
<ubot5> bug 1754174 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[Lubuntu] "Install Lubuntu" fails with several commands not found and permission denied" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754174
<tsimonq2> jibel: That's because Lubuntu no longer uses Ubiquity.
<tsimonq2> We use Calamares now.
<tsimonq2> jibel: Unless... *please* don't tell me you were testing Bionic...
<tsimonq2> If that's present on Bionic, please sound alarms.
<willcooke> night all
<jibel> tsimonq2, it's with cosmic and only with automated tests, manually it works fine
<LocutusOfBorg> seb128, it is used in Debian since a lot of times and nobody reported issues so far, but I don't know.. let me check, did anybody complain so far? it  should be a dropin replacement
<tsimonq2> jibel: OK
<oSoMoN> good night all
<robert_ancell> andyrock, how do I show the logout menu in g-s?
<robert_ancell> I'm on a details page but not seeing any change
<andyrock> robert_ancell: make sure you're running the built plugin (it could try to still load the old snapd plugin)
<andyrock> mmm it should appear like this: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/NxC87T1b/image.png
<andyrock> robert_ancell: btw I fixed all your suggestions
<andyrock> thx for the quick review
<robert_ancell> andyrock, np
<robert_ancell> That screenshot says "Sing out" :)
<andyrock> ops
<andyrock> yeah
<andyrock> I just noticed that too
<andyrock> :D
<robert_ancell> It should play some opera sound effect when you click on it
<andyrock> ahaha
<robert_ancell> I'm guessing the menu isn't showing because I haven't signed in?
<andyrock> it should show
<andyrock> but it should allow you to sign in
<robert_ancell> oh, ok. Must be something else...
<robert_ancell> ah, I stuffed up my git branch
<robert_ancell> andyrock, was there a discussion about why it only shows on the details page?
<robert_ancell> because login can also affect searches etc
<andyrock> nope but gnome-software can have more than one auth
<andyrock> at least in this way we can handle it defining a default auth
<robert_ancell> the default auth thing feels a bit odd - can't we just show all logged in accounts there (which will probably only be one in practice)
<andyrock> robert_ancell: that can be an option
<andyrock> I'll look into that
<robert_ancell> andyrock, something like gs_plugin_get_auths () that returns a GPtrArray (priv->auth_array).
<robert_ancell> Then you can iterate over that and show each one.
<andyrock> how do we distinguish one auth from the other?
<andyrock> e.g. doing like that we're going to have two auths now "snapd" and "ubuntuone"
<andyrock> I understand that "ubuntuone" is going away at some point
<andyrock> but for the moment it is still there
<robert_ancell> andyrock, you use gs_app_get_management_plugin which will return the Snap plugin. It only has one auth.
<andyrock> nope
<robert_ancell> The Ubuntu One plugin has the other one, and wont be visible.
<andyrock> they're shared
<andyrock> all the plugins share the same auth_array
<robert_ancell> ah
<sarnold> "sing out", well at least tha tmatches the optimism of the skype screenshot :0
<sarnold> :)
<andyrock> robert_ancell: it is this way because e.g. ubuntu-reviews use ubuntuone auth that comes from a different plugin
<robert_ancell> andyrock, would it be an issue to show both accounts in that menu?
<robert_ancell> Because the U1 login could apply to the results (i.e. if we were using the Ubuntu review server for reviews).
<andyrock> it would be odd to have something like that:
<andyrock> Sign in...
<andyrock> Sign Out
<andyrock> ----
<andyrock> Sign in...
<andyrock> Sign Out
<andyrock> in the same popover
<andyrock> we should at least agree on a way to distinguish the two
<andyrock> like
<andyrock> Snap Store
<robert_ancell> "Sign into Snap Store"
<robert_ancell> "Sign into Ubuntu One"
<andyrock> robert_ancell: and "Signed into SnapStore as <xxx@xxx.xxx>"
<andyrock> ?
<robert_ancell> andyrock, I think what flagged this for me is gs_plugin_set_default_auth is adding public API to G-S, and Richard is probably going to scrutinize it. So a more generic solution is probably better.
<andyrock> robert_ancell: kk that works for me
<andyrock> my day is almost over
<andyrock> so I'll likely update it tomorrow
<robert_ancell> andyrock, worst case we can just distro patch out U1 for us, and we'll drop U1 in the near future
<robert_ancell> andyrock, sure, thanks!
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-17
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Good Thursday
<jibel> Good morning
<didrocks> salut jibel, hey duflu!
<duflu> Hi jibel
<duflu> So today is the day.... :)  http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<oSoMoN> Ã§a va?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, le soleil est revenu ce matin
<didrocks> et toi ?
<oSoMoN> trÃ¨s bien, pas de rush pour aller Ã  lâÃ©cole ce matin, ma fille est partie en classe verte pour 3 jours, câest Ã©trangement calme (et il fait beau)!
<didrocks> ah, en effet :)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks oSoMoN, en forme ?
<oSoMoN> oui, et toi?
<seb128> nickel
<willcooke> word
<didrocks> hello
<didrocks> bad FIFO implementation :)
<Laney> ey up
<didrocks> and broken keyboard for Laney :p
<didrocks> or too much hairs under the "h"
<Laney> nope
<Laney> just teaching you the nottingham dialect
<didrocks> this is like "how mouch?"
<Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQTGkO5GjD8
<didrocks> ok, remind me to never get there or I'll get lost and cry :)
<Laney> :D
<Laney> don't actually hear people talking like that very often sadly :(
<didrocks> is it consider as slang or a local dialect?
<didrocks> considered*
<Laney> well I guess I mostly know people that aren't from here originally
<Laney> not many of the local old people :P
<seb128> good morning U.K
<seb128> willcooke, Laney, how are you?
<Laney> hmm, probably a dialect?
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> feeling GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
<Laney> went to bed at 2230
<Laney> what about you?
<willcooke> alright me ducks?
<Laney> wotcha geeza
<seb128> I'm doing great
<seb128> yesterday was tennis night!
<didrocks> Laney: that's my daily routine to go to bed at that time now :)
<seb128> it was quite windy and I'm out of shape, didn't play much during the winter between weather/us being sick in turn/weather
<seb128> but it was still good fun :)
<Laney> :>
<seb128> same here, 2230 is our normal bed time now :/
<willcooke> heh. Rock and roll in the channel today
 * willcooke complains that his knees hurt
<didrocks> for dancing Rock and roll? :)
<duflu> Morning willcooke, Laney (I just saw words that didn't immediately translate, but they do aurally)
<duflu> And morning seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you today?
<duflu> and oSoMoN
<Laney> greetings duflu
<duflu> seb128, doing OK. I finished a rework of a mutter branch for the Gnome guys just now that I expected to take at least all day.
<duflu> You?
<Laney> couple of months ago one of the lights in the kitchen started making the fuse trip
<seb128> nice
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<Laney> unscrewed it to have a look at the wiring
<Laney> face and body covered in water /o\
<seb128> urg
<willcooke> oof
<duflu> Presumably with electricity off
<Laney> the push pipe fitting from the bath had come loose
<Laney> yes
<oSoMoN> hi duflu
<Nafallo> o/
<duflu> Hi Nafallo
<Nafallo> duflu: hey! how's thing going with that annoying purple screen and mouse bug? :-)
<duflu> Nafallo, I think I saw Laney land an upstream fix last night
<Nafallo> oooh. nice :-)
<Nafallo> just need to wait for packages to test then :-)
<Nafallo> right. I need to go collect medicine and get the bus home. bbl.
<seb128> Laney, Trevinho, you managed to land the gdm fix/refactoring for the refcount issue from what I see, well done! :)
<Laney> thx
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah... Who cherry picks it? I can do it later if you want or I just point the commits if in rush
<Laney> don't worry about it, I can handle it
<Laney> quite a lot of pings about this one...
<seb128> thx Laney, sorry about the pings
<Laney> no worries
<Nafallo> willcooke: bug #1730765 still on your radar, right? :-)
<ubot5> bug 1730765 in gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock (Ubuntu) "Mounted external devices do not appear in dock" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1730765
<willcooke> Nafallo, it'll get reviewed when we go through the cc list.  So once 18.04.1 is out the door, or thereabouts
<willcooke> No promises though, we've already got a full schedule.
<Nafallo> willcooke: hmm. I was hoping for 18.04.1 actually ;-)
<willcooke> Worth seeing if anyone upstream and/or in the community wants to work on it.  I've zero clue about how much work it would be, but I think it's probably non-trivial
<Nafallo> hmm. let me check the release schedule. I might be able to find time for working on it as long as I get some handholding from time to time.
<willcooke> woot!
<Nafallo> well, we need it for 18.04.1 I think :-)
<Nafallo> would make sense to get time allocated.
<Nafallo> wow. 18.04.1 week 30 and 16.04.5 week 31 :-P
<didrocks> There is some work being done on it upstream
<didrocks> I don't think it's realistic for 18.04.1
<didrocks> Nafallo: sounds like you volunteer to help them? :)
<didrocks> as you feel that's crucial (knowing that we didn't huge feedback about the necessity on 17.10â¦)
<didrocks> Nafallo: willcooke: https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/pull/677 FYI. Note that we need some nautilus API as well, this is why I pointed them to talk to upstream about it
<ubot5-ng> micheleg bug (Pull request) 677 in dash-to-dock "Trash and Removable Device Icons" (comments: 12) [Open]
<Nafallo> didrocks: as soon as I can land my new role, I've already negotiated doing upstream work :-)
<didrocks> nice!
<Nafallo> Laney: should be fine running the cosmic proposed builds on bionic still, right? :-)
<Nafallo> didrocks: I like that the patches Philip did takes the trash can into consideration as well. I've got a separate extension for that at the moment :-P
 * didrocks really never use the trash that muchâ¦
<didrocks> remember that dnd isn't supported
<didrocks> though
<Nafallo> didrocks: yeah, me neither. no idea if my users do either :-)
<oSoMoN> Laney, the chromium-browser autopkgtest run for armhf appears to be stuck (http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running#pkg-chromium-browser , been running for >5hrs), is there a way to cancel and re-run?
<Laney> oSoMoN: all I can do is kill the process, no user facing way
<Laney> it will time out eventually
<Laney> and the container is still running fine, smells like the test itself has hung to me
<Laney> Nafallo: dunno, sounds like you get to keep both halves if it breaks
<Nafallo> Laney: :-D
<Nafallo> Laney: I'll try it out in a bit.
<Laney> if it were me I'd build the package myself
 * Nafallo notice Laney is trying to get him to write an ansible role for setting up a schroot environment ;-)
 * Laney sounds the sysadmin siren and runs away
<Nafallo> awesome... lastpass-cli just became completely unusable because Lastpass changed certificate and upstream of the client requires new upstream versions for that... :-(
<Nafallo> ehrm. upstream is Lastpass themselves...
<Nafallo> gah
<andyrock> good morning all!
<Nafallo> morning andyrock :-)
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<oSoMoN> Laney, ack, thanks
<oSoMoN> too much load on my machine, it almost grinded to a halt, I hoped to restore it by jumping to a tty and killing a few processes, but even that was too much, had to do a hard reboot :/
<didrocks> hey andyrock
<kenvandine> didrocks, any idea why i can't request a review from oSoMoN for the helpers?
<didrocks> kenvandine: good question, there is no special team or anything, maybe he needs to start a first review to get in the review list then?
<oSoMoN> I just went through every possible setting at https://github.com/settings/, and nothing appears to be explicitly disallowing review assignment
<oSoMoN> I already reviewed some of Ken's changes
<didrocks> as part of the team?
<didrocks> well, org group member?
<seb128> hey andyrock
<didrocks> oh
<didrocks> I know I think
<didrocks> you are in private mode
<didrocks> let me see if I can switch you to public
<didrocks> oh no, you are publicâ¦
<didrocks> let me grand you explicitely access to that repo
<didrocks> oSoMoN: you probably received an email
<oSoMoN> didrocks, yep, and I accepted the invitation
<oSoMoN> github says "You now have push access to the ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers repository."
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, can you assign me a review now?
<didrocks> and you are on the list!
<didrocks> oSoMoN: you couldn't push before, just being part of the org?
<oSoMoN> didrocks, dunno, I didn't try in that timeframe
<didrocks> maybe it's better to add directly people to repos thusâ¦
<oSoMoN> I was added to the org yesterday or the day before, can't remember exactly
<didrocks> I thought I added you to the org last week
<oSoMoN> it could be last week, my memory is failing me
<oSoMoN> according to my inbox, it was the 14th
<oSoMoN> so neither yesterday, nor the day before, nor last week :)
<didrocks> we were both wrong!
<didrocks> what, it's not Friday? Felt already like a week :p
<oSoMoN> you wish :)
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, yes
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, what did you do?
<didrocks> I added him to the repo explicitely
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> thx
<didrocks> yw
<andyrock> seb128: livepatch guys say we just need to check if we're in a LTS or not
<andyrock> seb128: in order to understand if we need to show the UI or not
<didrocks> andyrock: what's their answer to people installing the snap on non LTS?
<seb128> what didrocks said
<didrocks> confusing for them to install non working servicesâ¦
<andyrock> didrocks: well if you install it you still need to enable it
<andyrock> once you enable it you get an error message
<didrocks> still seems unnice while we have an existing mecanism to prevent this
<didrocks> any reason for them to not use per-release track?
<andyrock> but the per-release track will not prevent people to install the snap
<didrocks> I don't know if it's only a naming convention or something backed in into snapd, would need to reach out the snapd people
<didrocks> at least, it would give you a clear hint that's purposed for one release
<seb128> andyrock, checking if we are on a LTS is probably going to give us the right user experience, but yeah it would be nice if they handled that better...
<seb128> we should still communicate that to them
<seb128> but I think it's fine to do the lts check meanwhile on our side
<andyrock> the question is how we do the lts check? ð
<andyrock> seb128: python has some nice libraries to do that
<seb128> what is the livepatch snap doing?
<seb128> can you see their code?
<andyrock> they're checking the kernel
<seb128> you mean?
<andyrock> the kernel version
<seb128> shouldn't we do the same thing then?
<seb128> but do they have a mapping table?
<seb128> or do they ask the server if it's supported?
<andyrock> let me check
<seb128> andyrock, otherwise you could parse /etc/os-release and see if VERSION contains "LTS"
<andyrock> I would go with the /etc/os-release thing
<seb128> or use the ID and see if it's an <even number>.04
 * didrocks would think "LTS" is safer
<andyrock> it feels less likely to change in the future
<didrocks> btw, with .1 .2 release, do anyone of you know if the ID change as well?
 * didrocks was wondering that for ubuntu-report
<didrocks> (VERSION_ID)
<kenvandine> willcooke, seb128: oSoMoN and I are talking about how important is it to build chromium snaps for armhf/arm64
<kenvandine> thoughts?
<seb128> not?
<kenvandine> since we don't have arm desktop images
<kenvandine> doesn't seem useful
<seb128> didrocks,
<seb128> VERSION="16.04.4 LTS (Xenial Xerus)"
<seb128> VERSION_ID="16.04"
<seb128> seems not
<didrocks> seb128: thx for confirming :)
<seb128> np!
<oSoMoN> not sure if there's a way of getting snap usage statistics per architecture?
<didrocks> and for having old vm/install around ;)
<willcooke> kenvandine, ah - flavours do have, e.g. mate - but not sure if that means we are obliged or not.
<seb128> :)
<seb128> willcooke, do they care enough to contribute some work to help with it?
<seb128> I would say it depends of the cost
<seb128> but it's not trivial and just to help a flavor so I think it's fair to ask for shared cost
<oSoMoN> the problem is not so much an extra maintenance cost (armhf is unsupported upstream so it requires a patch to keep building every now and then, but it's not too bad), but rather that it takes forever to build chromium on arm (typically more than 20 hours)
<willcooke> oSoMoN, what's the knock on effect of slow building?  Like, can you kick it off and just leave it until its done?
<willcooke> or do you need to keep checking back on it
<oSoMoN> willcooke, yeah, I can totally kick it off and wait for it to be done, it's just very asynchronous
<willcooke> oSoMoN, My 0.02USD, if it's not a big burden to keep it building, it will be useful to people, but when that changes I think we reconsider
<oSoMoN> it's not even something that I can kick off before going to bed and expect to have it done when I wake up, so it makes for very slow iterations, but I can live with it
<willcooke> oSoMoN, now, if we can get the snap building, then we can get an idea of user numbers
<willcooke> and then that makes a case for or against pretty easy
<oSoMoN> willcooke, do we get snap stats per architecture?
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> hm
<willcooke> I just assumed we did
<willcooke> upload it as a new snap if not ;)
<oSoMoN> I couldn't figure out how to extract that info from the dashboard, but maybe there's a way
<didrocks> you can: https://dashboard.snapcraft.io/docs/api/snap.html#fetch-metrics-for-snaps
<didrocks> but you have to poke the API manually
<oSoMoN> aha
<didrocks> and you need to request per arch
<oSoMoN> perfect, thanks didrocks
<didrocks> oSoMoN: hold on, actually, I'm unsure, as I thought you can filter by revision, and getting the revision from another API callâ¦
<didrocks> (for each arch)
<kenvandine> Laney, i have a question about seeded snaps in my desktop-preinstalled image
<didrocks> but it seems it doesn't return the revision :/
<didrocks> (on the metrics filter)
<kenvandine> Laney, the snaps are in /var/lib/snapd/seed/snaps/
<kenvandine> but snap list doesn't show them as installed
<Laney> do you get the seed.yaml?
<Laney> livecd-rootfs makes that
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> and it has them
<Laney> then snapd is supposed to do a thing to install them
<Laney> on the first boot
<didrocks> oSoMoN: the only way would be to hardcode to arch in the "Version" field from what I see :/
<kenvandine> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/NN4Ph3hhr5/
<kenvandine> Laney, snapd is running :(
<kenvandine> nothing in /snap
<Laney> I don't know how that part is supposed to work, sorry
<Laney> try #snappy ?
<kenvandine> Laney, no worries
<kenvandine> will do
<Laney> as far as I was concerned our job ended at writing seed.yaml, snapd is supposed to arrange for that to work
<kenvandine> oh... snapd.seeded service was still marked as "starting"
<kenvandine> since yesterday
<Laney> /o\
<Nafallo> Laney: followed your advice and built them in an lxd guest. debs for amd64 if someone needs to test on bionic is at http://people.ubuntu.com/~nafallo/gdm3/
<Laney> phat
<Trevinho> Laney: as per reading the email / telegram, it might be already too late, but to get better gdm development experience, and want to run it from jhbuild, I can help...
<Laney> oh yeah, show me IRL?
<Laney> I was using a testing laptop and making debs
<Laney> or ... write a wiki page :-o
<Trevinho> Laney: I generally do such things in a VM (things which supprot mesa drivers, as vmware or maybe kvm are better)
<Trevinho> but yeah... I wanted to write down something
<Laney> nice
<Trevinho> anyway the basic trick is just create an alternative .service file, stripped of the pre/post-exec and the dbusbusname
<Trevinho> then setting the exect to a script that sets proper PATH, LD_LIBRARY_PATH and GI_TYPELIB_PATH and runs the actual gdm... Then you've to symlink something too
<Laney> haha
<Laney> easy!
<Trevinho> but that's mostly for xorg stuff as you might not want to run it from your jhbuild (i did, but still)...
<Trevinho> well it's quite easy, just need to check a bit the logs for erros, but eventually it works (once you use upstream gdm with my patches)
<Laney> I never even ran the shell from jhbuild
<Trevinho> noooo?!
<Trevinho> How can you!
<Laney> symlink the binaries to /usr/bin
<Trevinho> -_-
<Trevinho> you can also run funny stuff such as `jhbuild run gdb gnome-shell -batch -ex "set logging on" -ex "run --replace" -ex "bt full" -ex "call gjs_dumpstack()"   -ex quit
<Trevinho> `
<Trevinho> which bsicallty gives you the traces (gjs and c) when it crashes
 * oSoMoN is done for today, have a good evening
<willcooke> night
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, please push your packaging branches!
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-18
<duflu> jbicha, was I correct in assuming that bionic will get gnome-shell 3.28.2, or will we need to cherry pick for bug 1765261 ?
<ubot5> bug 1765261 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[regression] Ubuntu 18.04 login screen rejects a valid password on first attempt. Usually works on the second attempt" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765261
<jbicha> duflu: we'll get gnome-shell 3.28.2 but no one is working on it yet
<duflu> jbicha, cool, thanks. So not worth cherry picking things from it I assume...
<duflu> ?
<jbicha> right
<jbicha> we have a GNOME microrelease exception so there's no reason not to pick up any of the 3.28.* releases (except maybe some translation-only updates which would be low priority)
<duflu> I am happy with that. Gnome micro-releases seem adequately disciplined/small
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> and happy Friday!
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<c-lobrano> morning all :)
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN, hey c-lobrano
<oSoMoN> good morning c-lobrano
<c-lobrano> 0/
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<willcooke> morning seb128, happy friday
<seb128> hey willcooke, happy friday indeed!
<willcooke> Did you read about Nautilus removing the ability to double-click executables?
<willcooke> I actually dont think it's a big deal at all
<didrocks> hey seb128, willcooke
<willcooke> but something we should think about none the less
<seb128> hey didrocks
<willcooke> ahoy didrocks
<seb128> willcooke, yeah, upstream asked me how we feel about it
<seb128> imho it's not important to most people, I don't know if it's not useful in some places/cases though
<seb128> like small work place where the setup is just made by dropping a binary on the desktop users have to double click to start a software
<seb128> and some things are still distribution with a binary to in tar
<seb128> you untar/double click the binary
<seb128> but maybe it's time to tell those users to get used to modern ways
<didrocks> fortunately, (or not) but people are using steam and other things like that nowdays
<seb128> I would feel better about it if they made it easier to create a launcher for a binary
<willcooke> Maybe we could help with that
<seb128> you were looking at increasing your GNOME contributions right? ;)
 * willcooke fires up gedit
<duflu> willcooke, I can only think of "universal binaries" that would be a small problem with... like http://avidemux.sourceforge.net/download.html
<duflu> And good morning
<didrocks> speaking of Nautilus, upstream agreed on some changes for window matching to help us with Trash and Device icons. Review is in progress or the additional API.
<seb128> nice
<seb128> willcooke, it looks like they are looking at adding the feature back in some way, see https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/nautilus/issues/443
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug 443 in nautilus "Allow running binaries from the context menu." (comments: 19) [1. Feature, 2. Needs Design, 2. Rfc, Opened]
<ubot5> Error: Gnome bug 443 could not be found
<seb128> quite some discussionÂ there, I don't have the motivation to read it :p
<willcooke> Looks like a good solution
<duflu> ... or rather https://appimage.org/
<seb128> duflu, yeah, they were discussing that specific case on IRC in the previous days
<duflu> seb128, not a big deal because likely you need to use a shell to chmod them already
<Laney> lo
<duflu> Hi Laney
<seb128> hi Laney
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> hi duflu seb128 didrocks
<Laney> hope all is well!
<seb128> indeed, it's friday!
<didrocks> friday&regexp=<3
<didrocks> but friday&regexp&multiple_tests_to_spot_regressions=<3<3<3 :)
<oSoMoN> good morning/afternoon everyone!
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, comment Ã§a va ?
<seb128> didrocks, ubuntu-report fun?
<didrocks> seb128: yep! :)
<oSoMoN> seb128, trÃ¨s bien, et toi?
<seb128> nickel :)
<Nafallo> "morning"
<Nafallo> I might have thought it was Saturday up to just recently...
<Nafallo> ;-)
<Nafallo> ooh
<Nafallo> Laney: I could log in! I was too tired to realise I should be checking that it worked though :-)
<Laney> sehr gut
<Laney> the productivity of the world increases
<duflu> Odd. My panel, it turns out, is 1923 pixels wide, on a 1920 wide monitor
<duflu> Also; win! Two gnome branches landed in two days
<oSoMoN> duflu, congrats!
<willcooke> \o/
<didrocks> jibel: https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubiquity/time-measurement-fix/+merge/345851
<didrocks> (not tested yet though, but pep8 doesn't complain :p)
<Nafallo> didrocks: that's a test ;-)
<didrocks> true ;)
<GunnarHj> sil2100: Is the patch at bug #1762952 something you could take a look at? (Saw that you made the latest change to console-setup.)
<ubot5> bug 1762952 in console-setup (Ubuntu) "Alternative shortcut for layout switching Alt+Shift unexpectedly set by default" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762952
 * sil2100 is looking
<sil2100> Yeah, I can take a look after lunch
<GunnarHj> sil2100: Great, thanks!
<GunnarHj> Laney: Bug #1762889 - please?
<ubot5> bug 1762889 in pkgbinarymangler (Ubuntu) "dh_translations doesn't strip .desktop files when more than 1 pot target with meson" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762889
<Laney> I know dude, I know
<GunnarHj> Laney: Just don't say "soon-ish" (you did that last week). ;)
<Laney> OK I won't.
<sil2100> ;)
<flocculant> popey: you got a mo in a quick pm?
<popey> flocculant: for you, always
<flocculant> what a gent :)
<didrocks> britishÂ©
<jbicha> GunnarHj: hi, so webkit2gtk is untranslated in at least cosmic. Do you think we should opt it out of language packs since it changes every 6 months?
<jbicha> *bionic
<seb128> flocculant, I will never understand why people ask on a public channel to someone if they can pm them instead of directly /msg a "hey, can I bother you?"
<tdaitx> hi, I need help with a dconf related issue that is affecting openjdk.
<tdaitx> It seems dconf reports a wrong scale-factor, but I have no idea what causes that in the first place, please see the last comment in LP: #1765914
<tdaitx> let me know if the discussion should be done in another channel
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1765914 in openjdk-lts (Ubuntu) "Java windows and fonts are huge running in openjdk-11-jre" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765914
<seb128> jbicha, webkit2gtk is not "unstranslated" in bionic
<flocculant> seb128: because I for one - would rather be asked - than have to ignore someone ;)
<GunnarHj> jbicha: What you say speaks for it. At the same time I can mention that I have some mail correspondence with sil2100 and seb128 about the approch in general for langpack updates. Possibly we should await the outcome of that discussion.
<jbicha> seb128: depends on if French is important? ? :)
<seb128> jbicha, also your fix from the other day doesn't fix the issue I was pointing out
<seb128> $ dpkg -c language-pack-gnome-es-base_18.04+20180423_all.deb | grep WebKit
<seb128> -rw-r--r-- root/root      1886 2018-04-23 18:00 ./usr/share/locale-langpack/es/LC_MESSAGES/WebKit2GTK-4.0.mo
<sil2100> hmmm
<jbicha> how does it work if dh_translations isn't run for webkit2gtk?
<jbicha> (for context, my "fix" was https://salsa.debian.org/webkit-team/webkit/merge_requests/1 )
<ubot5-ng> WebKit bug (Merge request) 1 in webkit "Build with gnome-pkg-tools for Ubuntu language packs" (comments: 6) [Opened]
<seb128> jbicha, I didn't look at the build dir after build, but https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+upload/17941537/+files/webkit2gtk_2.20.1-1_amd64_translations.tar.gz is the built from bionic
<seb128> it has the .po and the .pot
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/369186303/buildlog_ubuntu-cosmic-amd64.webkit2gtk_2.20.2-1_BUILDING.txt.gz has
<seb128> 4
<seb128> ups
<seb128> [ 26%] Generating WebKit2GTK-4.0.pot
<seb128> jbicha, so I guess the upstream build is already doing it?
<jbicha> hmm ð
<seb128> btw I know how to fix it and I said I would do it
<seb128> don't feel like you have to fix all the issues even when others said they would
<seb128> the issue is on the launchpad import side, not in the package
<didrocks> pkgstriptranslations: preparing translation tarball webkit2gtk_2.20.2-1_amd64_translations.tar.gz...done
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Sounds like the problem is not exactly as you said initially. What may be a problem wrt langpacks is when new or changed translatable strings are SRUed.
<jbicha> GunnarHj: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+source/webkit2gtk/+pots/webkit2gtk-4.0/
<jbicha> and https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+source/webkit2gtk
<jbicha> but Seb said he's working on it so I'm going to let him take care of it :)
<seb128> jbicha, GunnarHj, the issue is again one of having "translations shared with the trunk vcs" activated pointing to a buggy trunk which has no content
<seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/webkit-open-source
<seb128> that settings make the .po not being imported from the package upload
<seb128> the fix is easy, undo the sharing on launchpad and re-upload
<seb128> I'm just going to manually upload the tarballs, there is no need of a source upload for that
<seb128> then it's just a matter of having another langpack refresh
<seb128> which we plan to do anyway
<GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: Understood.
<sil2100> GunnarHj: why were those d/c and d/r changes needed? It didn't build correctly without those?
<sil2100> GunnarHj: they don't seem to be related to the fix itself
<GunnarHj> sil2100: Correct, the PPA build failed without them. Otherwise completely unrelated.
<sil2100> GunnarHj: I left a comment on the bug, the package seems to build correctly in my PPA without the changes
<sil2100> Anyway, I need to EOD now, but it's on my plate now
<sil2100> o/
<willcooke> night all, have a great weekedn
<Laney> YEH
<Laney> laters
<oSoMoN> have a good week-end everyone!
<Trevinho> have nice we
<seb128> thanks Trevinho, you too, have a nice w.e desktopers
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-05-13
* duckgoose changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: ð©
* duflu changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to:  Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle
* duflu changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle
<Laney> moin!
<duflu> Morning Laney
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<marcustomlinson> morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
<oSoMoN> had a good week-end?
<duflu> Good morning oSoMoN and marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> oSoMoN: so turns out I broke the upgrade path for LO 6.1.6... oops - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1828683
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1828683 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Cosmic) "package libreoffice-impress 1:6.1.6-0ubuntu0.18.10.1 failed to install/upgrade: forsÃ¸ger at overskrive '/usr/lib/libreoffice/program/libOGLTranslo.so', som ogsÃ¥ er i pakken libreoffice-ogltrans 1:6.1.5-0ubuntu0.18.10.1" [High,Triaged]
<marcustomlinson> oSoMoN: could you upload again for me
<marcustomlinson> morning duflu!
<oSoMoN> marcustomlinson, sure thing, looking at that now
<oSoMoN> good afternoon duflu
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<duflu> Morning tjaalton, did you see bug 1801071 ?
<ubot5`> bug 1801071 in libxpresent (Ubuntu Disco) "XPresentPixmap() BadWindow, recompiling fixes it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1801071
<willcooke> hi duflu, good weekend?
<duflu> willcooke, it was remarkably short. Half was Mother's Day. But pleasant. You?
<willcooke> at another airport
<willcooke> so meh
<tjaalton> duflu: nope..
<duflu> tjaalton, I find it curious that some people like Martin had tearing for *years* prior to that fix. Makes me wonder what we were missing
<duflu> in terms of performance
<duflu> and why more people never noticed a problem
<tjaalton> well, I'll start by subscribing ubuntu-x-swat to it's bugs..
<tjaalton> it's in universe btw
<tjaalton> duflu: most use libxcb-present0
<duflu> tjaalton, you mean most compositors?
<duflu> shells/DEs?
<tjaalton> I'd guess
<tjaalton> server is built with it
<duflu> Wimpress, ^ It sounds like that xpresent issue would only affect DEs using the "old" API. I think that includes Compiz/Unity. What do you use?
<Wimpress> Ubuntu MATE uses the Marco window manager while Xubuntu uses xfwm. Both benefit from the libxpresent rebuild.
<duflu> Cool
<tjaalton> marco seems to be the only package that depends on libxpresent1
<duflu> Yeah I would not expect Compiz/Unity to be affected in reality because it really uses XComposite for everything and leaves the Present work to Xorg internally
<duflu> Same (and for other reasons) why I would not expect mutter/gnome-shell to be affected
<oSoMoN> tkamppeter, thanks for seeing that n-m SRU to bionic through! it wasn't an easy one
<oSoMoN> Laney, sil2100: thanks for your help ^
<Laney> yw
<Laney> thanks to you!
<tkamppeter> oSoMoN, with nm landed 2 of the 3 bugs are fixed, bug 1754671 only needs systemd now, but this is a small patch which should get through quickly.
<ubot5`> bug 1754671 in systemd (Ubuntu Bionic) "Full-tunnel VPN DNS leakage regression" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754671
<tkamppeter> Also Laney, tjaalton, sil2100, thanks for all your cooperation.
<willcooke> well done tkamppeter!
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-05-14
* duflu changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle
<oSoMoN> back online, at lastâ¦ good morning desktoppers!
<willcooke> morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey willcooke
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN and willcooke
<duflu> No one else is here
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<duflu> Except...
<duflu> everyone else
<oSoMoN> :)
<oSoMoN> quiet day ahead, good
<marcustomlinson> \o
<oSoMoN> hey marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> good morning oSoMoN duflu willcooke
<marcustomlinson> how is everyone?
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> "everyone" :D
<duflu> marcustomlinson, everyone is great. Surely
<marcustomlinson> good!
<marcustomlinson> ;)
<willcooke> hi duflu marcustomlinson
<willcooke> kenvandine, could you lead the meeting today?
<willcooke> desktoppers, do you want to have a team meeting today?
<kenvandine> I can
<seb128> +1, check point/regular bugs review
<seb128> (some of us are travelling but we don't have an important meeting at that time so I think I can probably participate at least to comment on some bugs voting)
<oSoMoN> can do, the bug review is always helpful
<kenvandine> meeting time!
<kenvandine> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-05-14
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 14 13:30:20 2019 UTC.  The chair is kenvandine. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-05-14 | Current topic:
<kenvandine> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<marcustomlinson> present
<oSoMoN> \o
<seb128> hey
<kenvandine> lets dive into bugs
<kenvandine> #topic rls-ee-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-05-14 | Current topic: rls-ee-bugs
<kenvandine> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<kenvandine> bug 1804786
<ubot5`> bug 1804786 in gnome-getting-started-docs (Ubuntu) "Garbage occurred when Playing the video in the Ubuntu Desktop Guide" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1804786
<kenvandine> not a new bug, but just tagged
<seb128> "Garbage occurred after the video repeat about 3 times"
<seb128> I don't think that's important enough for an usecase to qualify for rls tracking
<seb128> -1 from me
<marcustomlinson> -1
<kenvandine> agreed
<seb128> I can tag/comment
<kenvandine> seb128: thanks
<seb128> so you can keep moving the meeting :)
<seb128> np
<kenvandine> ee-tracking looks like it's in good shape
<kenvandine> #topic rls-dd-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-05-14 | Current topic: rls-dd-bugs
<kenvandine> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<kenvandine> bug 1827953
<ubot5`> bug 1827953 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "when you have "world clocks" configured (e.g. from the Gnome Clocks application), Gnome Shell crashes on login, resulting in a login loop" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827953
<kenvandine> assigned and in progress
<kenvandine> should be moved to tracking
<Laney> remove the tag
<seb128> +1 for that
<seb128> ee tracking had bug #1814373
<ubot5`> bug 1814373 in linux (Ubuntu Eoan) "storage / luks / dmsetup regressed (or got better) on ppc64le" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814373
<kenvandine> oh, missed that :)
<seb128> it points to a systemd bug
<seb128> so I guess udisks2 can be marked as invalid
<kenvandine> +1
<kenvandine> done
<kenvandine> ok, moving on
<kenvandine> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<kenvandine> i'll bug jamesh about bug 1823464
<ubot5`> bug 1823464 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Disco) "gnome-keyring ftbfs in disco (s390x only)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823464
<kenvandine> again
<Laney> /o\
<kenvandine> seb128: are you looking at bug 1823448
<ubot5`> bug 1823448 in cogl (Ubuntu Disco) "cogl ftbfs in disco (i386 only)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823448
<seb128> sort of, I couldn't reproduce
<seb128> those are are not tagged and assigned
<seb128> why do we review them?
<kenvandine> there are on the tracking page
<seb128> we usually review unassigned items from tracking
<kenvandine> they :)
<kenvandine> yeah... but no status :)
<kenvandine> reminder for me to bug james
<kenvandine> #topic rls-cc-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-05-14 | Current topic: rls-cc-bugs
<seb128> we don't consider assigned/New as anormal usually
<seb128> but thx for the cogl reminder :)
<kenvandine> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<kenvandine> nothing for desktop
<kenvandine> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<kenvandine> looks good
<seb128> yep
<kenvandine> #topic rls-bb-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-05-14 | Current topic: rls-bb-bugs
<kenvandine> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<kenvandine> nothing for desktop
<kenvandine> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> seems there is only that nvidia/gnome-shell one, which should be assigned to duflu as it is for cosmic/disco
<kenvandine> assigning
<kenvandine> i think that's it
<kenvandine> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-05-14 | Current topic: aob
<seb128> yep
<kenvandine> going once
<marcustomlinson> (tumbleweed)
<kenvandine> ok, seems none
<kenvandine> thanks all!
<kenvandine> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 14 13:54:55 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-05-14-13.30.moin.txt
<marcustomlinson> thanks kenvandine
<willcooke> thanks all
<kenvandine> those in Lyon, have fun!
<oSoMoN> thanks all
<marcustomlinson> and have baguettes
<Trevinho> thanks!
<oSoMoN> and enjoy the bouchons
<seb128> kenvandine, thx! :)
<kenvandine> seb128: np
<kenvandine> tkamppeter: that autopkgtest passed yesterday
<tkamppeter> kenvandine, I have seen it and posted on #ubuntu-release to the Tuesday's SRU guys (bdmurray, RAOF) and also commented on the MM bug report, but got no answer.
<kenvandine> tkamppeter: cool, thanks
<oSoMoN> good night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-05-15
<RAOF> tkamppeter: Sorry about this, but what's the status WRT bug #1819615 in cosmic? Cosmic is still supported, so we'd really want any fixes in there, too.
<ubot5`> bug 1819615 in OEM Priority Project "For additional hardware support, modemmanager needs to be upgraded to 1.10 on Bionic" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1819615
<RAOF> So that people upgrading don't suddenly lose their hardware support.
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<willcooke> morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey willcooke, how goes?
<willcooke> it goes.  My legs hurt from riding a bike yesterday :DD
<oSoMoN> no sport!
<willcooke> Thats like my mantra
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN and willcooke
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<duflu> Back in a bit
<willcooke> hi duflu
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ?
<seb128> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, Ã§a va, et toi?
<seb128> oSoMoN, Ã§a va !
<marcustomlinson> good morning oSoMoN seb128
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson , how are you?
<marcustomlinson> I'm good thanks! yourself?
<duflu> Morning seb128 and marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> hey duflu
<seb128> hey duflu, how is it going?
<marcustomlinson> seb128: ah you already said Ã§a va :) good
<seb128> :)
<duflu> seb128, going well. And you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<oSoMoN> morning marcustomlinson
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-05-16
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, comment va aujourd'hui?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, Ã§a va bien, et toi?
<seb128> Ã§a va bien :)
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN and seb128
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<jibel> hi all
<duflu> Morning jibel
<marcustomlinson> morning all
<duflu> Hi marcustomlinson
<willcooke> hi all
<willcooke> given a LP upload via the LP API, can I get the changes file URL directly via the API?
<jibel> hmm, I did something like this a long time ago. I'll try to find it
<willcooke> jibel, good journey home?
<willcooke> I think I should be able to use "get_paramter "
<duflu> Hi willcooke
<willcooke> afternoon duflu
<jibel> willcooke, yeah, the train has been a bit delayed because it hit an animal, but still got my connection and reached home.
<willcooke> but get_parameter(changes_file_url) doesnt work
<jibel> willcooke, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/XDXZxXJNVH/ but it uses changelogs.ubuntu.com, I'll find the one that uses the LP api
<willcooke> jibel, don't worry, I think I've done it
<willcooke> ha
<willcooke> thanks jibel
<andyrock> good morning all :D
<marcustomlinson> hey andyrock
<oSoMoN> hey andyrock, how are you doing?
<duflu> Morning andyrock
<duflu> Bah statistics. I spent over a day thinking I had a great new fix only to find it was random variation
<duflu> At least I was careful to repeat and repeat
<Laney> willcooke: https://api.launchpad.net/devel.html is useful if you didn't see that
<Laney> e.g. it leads you to "lp.distributions['ubuntu'].getSeries(name_or_version='bionic').getPackageUploads(status='Unapproved')[0].changes_file_url"
<willcooke> yeah I found it, thanks!
<Laney> kool
<seb128> oh, an andyrock! how are you?
<Laney> also hi!
<duflu> Hi Laney
<duflu> And with that, good night, almost
<duflu> Crap. I was meant to put dinner in the oven some time ago
<duflu> Backup plan
<duflu> Bye
<andyrock> I'm still getting used to lunch at 11:45
<andyrock> sudo update-alternatives --config x-terminal-emulatorudo update-alternatives --config x-terminal-emulator
<andyrock> ops
<andyrock> Dio1123Cancaro
<andyrock> something wrong here sorry about the spam
<sil2100> marcustomlinson, oSoMoN: can one of you SRUify LP: #1828683 ?
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1828683 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Cosmic) "package libreoffice-impress 1:6.1.6-0ubuntu0.18.10.1 failed to install/upgrade: forsÃ¸ger at overskrive '/usr/lib/libreoffice/program/libOGLTranslo.so', som ogsÃ¥ er i pakken libreoffice-ogltrans 1:6.1.5-0ubuntu0.18.10.1" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1828683
<sil2100> Ah!
<sil2100> marcustomlinson, oSoMoN: ...nevermind!
<sil2100> I see it actually is
<sil2100> Oh, the version number was incorrect last time in the replaces/conflicts? How did I miss that
<marcustomlinson> sil2100: don't blame yourself, that was my bad sorry
<Trevinho> morning!
<willcooke> hi re
<willcooke> hi Trevinho
<seb128> hey Trevinho , how are you?
<Trevinho> hi seb128 and willcooke!
<Trevinho> I'm good thanks... you?
<seb128> good!
<seb128> Trevinho, where are you atm?
<oSoMoN> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> oSoMoN: hi!
<Trevinho> seb128: still Guanajuato
<seb128> Trevinho, enjoying the tacos? :)
<Trevinho> seb128: yes.... love them ð
<k_alam> marcustomlinson: Hi, is there any news on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1825741 was it fixed for new release in disco ?
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1825741 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "[upstream] Multiple instances of global menu entries" [Medium,Triaged]
<marcustomlinson> k_alam: I'll give it a test now
<k_alam> marcustomlinson: Thanks
<marcustomlinson> k_alam: nah, same problem exists in 6.2.3.2. The upstream bug is still seeing confirmations of this as of 2 weeks ago
<marcustomlinson> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124391
<ubot5`> bugs.documentfoundation.org bug 124391 in UI "Doubled global menu in 6.2.2 with GTK VCL" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<k_alam> ok, so not fixed yet
<marcustomlinson> k_alam: not yet no. to be fair though, the problem itself was not clearly defined until March this year, so still a relatively new bug. Will just have to keep an eye on upstream
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-05-17
<duflu> Back in a while
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN and seb128
<seb128> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> hey duflu, salut seb128
<seb128> happy friday desktopers
<seb128> lut oSoMoN
<seb128> how are you?
<oSoMoN> I'm good, you?
<seb128> I'm good as well! a bit tired from the week, one more day to go through and w.e!
<oSoMoN> that will be a well deserved one :)
<duflu> Oh that's nice. In eoan the nvidiafb doesn't steal and ruin the appearance of efifb
<duflu> Because there is no nvidiafb?
<marcustomlinson> morning all
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> happy friday :)
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
<Trevinho> morning :), and happy friday
<oSoMoN> have a great week-end everyone
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-05-11
<callmepk> good morning
<jbicha> juliank: that might be bug 1873658, fixed in -proposed
<ubot5> bug 1873658 in desktop-file-utils (Ubuntu Focal) "Deb Files are not associated with an application that manages packages" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1873658
<duflu> Morning callmepk 
<callmepk> morning duflu 
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<duflu> Morning didrocks and seb128 
<duflu> biab
<didrocks> hey duflu, salut seb128 
<seb128> hey duflu, salut didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> good, thanks, and yourself?
<seb128> I'm good thanks!
<ricotz> good morning
<duflu> seb128, tired. We had just enough easing of restrictions for Mother's Day to go ahead. Though that probably doesn't explain it -- I slept heaps, just low quality
<duflu> Hi ricotz 
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<didrocks> hey ricotz, marcustomlinson 
<duflu> Hi marcustomlinson 
<marcustomlinson> hwy didrocks and duflu
<ricotz> hey duflu, didrocks, marcustomlinson, seb128 
<callmepk> hi ricotz didrocks marcustomlinson seb128 
<didrocks> hey callmepk 
<marcustomlinson> hey hey ricotz and callmepk
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers, happy Monday!
<marcustomlinson> morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> morning marcustomlinson 
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN 
<didrocks> happy Monday oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, Ã§a va bien?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: Ã§a va bien, merci, et toi ? :)
<oSoMoN> trÃ¨s bien
<oSoMoN> I was just showing and explaining IRC to my 7yo daughter, and she couldn't stop laughing at my nickname :)
<didrocks> ahah, unsure how insulted or proud you should be :)
<oSoMoN> amused, that's all
<ginggs> hi desktoppers, would someone please help me stop my PC suspending at the login screen? LP: #1874219
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1874219 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) " PC suspends after 20 minutes at the login screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874219
<ginggs> it's a desktop PC, so is always on AC power
<marcustomlinson> duflu: Interested to see the bug backlog graph this week :)
<duflu> marcustomlinson, I got the impression you had done some things... Yeah I will update it before EOD
<Laney> moin
<didrocks> hey hey Laney 
<oSoMoN> moin Laney 
<duflu> Hi Laney
<marcustomlinson> ginggs: left a comment on your bug
<seb128> hey marcustomlinsonric callmepk, ricotz, how are you?
<seb128> Laney, hey Laney, good long w.e?
<ginggs> marcustomlinson: thanks, giving that a try
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> oSoMoN, ouais, Ã§a va ! et toi ?
<callmepk> seb128 : Pretty good! how are you?
<seb128> callmepk, I'm good
<oSoMoN> seb128, bien, merci!
<seb128> shrug, libreoffice
<oSoMoN> what's up with it?
<oSoMoN> that help bug?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> I tried to upload the Debian package to a ppa unmodified
<seb128> failed after 23 hours with a ENOSPACE in the ppa :/
<Laney> hey didrocks oSoMoN duflu seb128 
<seb128> the log has those 'no obvious way to instantiate implementation' warning though, which doesn't have in Debian
<seb128> so I expect the config would have been buggy and then it's not a difference in the package but in the depends versions or toolchain
<seb128> I also tried to disabled Bsymbolic-function since that often creates issues but no luck
<ricotz> oSoMoN, seb128, this starts to look like some burried condition whether this is a "Debian" build
<seb128> ricotz, those 'no obvious way to instantiate implementation'  warnings in the log are weird
<seb128> also the resulting binaries are fine
<ricotz> seb128, fyi http://people.ubuntu.com/~ricotz/libreoffice/main.xcd.diff
<seb128> it's just a config problem, copying main.xcd from Debian makes F1 call the webbrowser on the documentation
<ricotz> the last hunk looks pretty problematic
<seb128> ricotz, the lack of all the DesktopBackend entries also no?
<ricotz> maybe
<seb128> and how did you manage to get a pretty diff like that :p
<ricotz> but if replacements are not correctly filled this is a reall issue, which might not be restricted to main.xcd
<seb128> right
<seb128> numbertext is a diff with Debian
<seb128> no?
<seb128> I wish that Debian upload had successed in the ppa, it would have told me if those .xcd diff were still there
<ricotz> seb128, it is a switch to the internal dep, so might be handled wrong by the libreoffice buildsystem
<seb128> right
<ginggs> marcustomlinson, seb128: thanks for your comments in the bug
<duflu> Erm, yeah marcustomlinson you win (is that you?) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRDHPxGBHqM6XkT_S8ggtYfD0xchKSUD_z9PopNVE3G1rU05fVSnxDGcDsEstl7gu7N-tzCU6mLUp2V/pubchart?oid=254968654&format=interactive
<marcustomlinson> duflu: boom
<marcustomlinson> yeah cleaned out oldy mouldies
<marcustomlinson> not without irritating a lot of people with all the bug mail of course
<duflu> :
<duflu> :
<duflu> :
<duflu> ð¤
<duflu> That was your delayed mic drop
<duflu> Nice
<marcustomlinson> :)
<Wimpress> Morning o/
<duflu> marcustomlinson, I found in the past roughly 1 in 400 people got angry, which is sufficiently low
<duflu> Morning Wimpress 
<marcustomlinson> duflu: and I was actually quite surprised by the number of positive reactions from users too
<marcustomlinson> I got a fair amount of "thank you for saying _something_ on this bug"
<marcustomlinson> even some negative reactions turned positive when I took the time to apologise and they realised there was a human watching the bug
<duflu> I assume it most mostly silence
<marcustomlinson> mostly yes, but if someone did reply I owed it to them to reply as well
<seb128> hey Wimpress, wb, had a good week off?
<duflu> marcustomlinson, that's amazing, thanks. I will also end my day on that good news
<marcustomlinson> duflu: good night :)
<ricotz> seb128, nevermind my comment about the $(instdir)
<seb128> ricotz, oh?
<seb128> it's resolved at runtime?
<ricotz> seb128, $(insturl) is normal
<ricotz> yes
<seb128> k
<seb128> k
<jphilips> hi all. I came across this on twitter related to the software store in 20.04 and wanted to bring it to your attention if you weren't already aware of it
<jphilips> https://twitter.com/itsfoss2/status/1259735657020370944
<marcustomlinson> thanks for the heads up jphilips
<jphilips> marcustomlinson: any time. was going to mention it in the #ubuntu-quality channel, but wasnt sure there were any ubuntu team members in there other than wimpy
<ogra> jphilips, https://bugs.launchpad.net/snap-store/+bug/1875450 most likely
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1875450 in snap-store "Doesn't provide search info to gnome-shell overview > search" [Low,Confirmed]
<ogra> seb128, here is a shiny little bug for your next evo upload https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/1877852 ... :)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1877852 in evolution (Ubuntu) "Evolution not showing unread count in dock, missing build-dep" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> ogra; hey, thanks, I wonder when we regressed that and how :/
<jphilips> has there been any reports of snapd slowing shutdowns - https://twitter.com/j4yav/status/1259824398871257088
<ogra> yeah ... 
<ogra> it is shiny with that feature though ... 
<ogra> ... and i was surprised how quick evo builds nowadays :)
<ogra> jphilips, yes, a fix is in edge AFAIK
<ogra> has been discussed on https://forum.snapcraft.io ... 
<ogra> (and in the #snappy channel as well)
<jphilips> ogra: thanks
<ogra> jphilips, there is also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/1877852
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1877852 in evolution (Ubuntu) "Evolution not showing unread count in dock, missing build-dep" [Undecided,New]
<ogra> err
<ogra> sorry ... https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1873550
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1873550 in snapd (Ubuntu) "Snappy daemon reaches 1min30s timeout during shutdown process" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<ogra> silly copy/paste ... 
<seb128> jphilips, please use launchpad for bug repiorts
<oSoMoN> seb128, would you mind sponsoring https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/adwaita-icon-theme/-/commits/ubuntu/focal/ to focal, please?
<jphilips> seb128: okay
<seb128> oSoMoN, I can do that sure, thanks for working on the update :)
<oSoMoN> np, it was an easy one
<seb128> ogra, oh, that's a new feature in fact, nice. We provided that with evolution-indicator  ... did that one stop working for you? or did you just not have it installed?
<ogra> seb128, i think one of the upgrades removed it ... (i didnt really stay long on 18.04, might have been that upgarde, I just used 18.04 to jump to 20.04 from 16.04)
<seb128> ogra, can you try if reinstalling it fixes the issue without rebulding evolution?
<seb128> ogra, would still be nicer to use the upstream variant but it's a bit annoying to enable, we are in sync with Debian and they don't have libunity so we would need to have a diff (or to get libunity to Debian ideally)
<ogra> ah, k 
<ogra> hmm, the indicator pulls in all the old gconf-2 stuff alongside
<seb128> oh :(
<seb128> the feature is minimal, it probably makes sense to enable it for focal in the next upload
<seb128> less annoyance and better out of the box experience
<ogra> seb128, yeah, seems to work ... the indicator should perhaps be a recommends ? 
<seb128> ogra, I would rather avoid pulling gconf in by default, enabling the upstream support seems a better way
<seb128> also better to maintain a one line control diff than maintaining an outdated source depending on gconf (which we will want to remove from the archive at some point)
<ogra> seb128, well, i invalidated the bug anyway, guessing you might want to fix it in debian rather (once they pulled unity8 in they might also pull in libunity (IIRC even unity8 uses that)
<seb128> ogra, right, libunity is standalone and would make sense there
<ogra> +1
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-05-12
<callmepk> Good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<duflu> First one today
<didrocks> good morning
<callmepk> hi oSoMoN duflu didrocks 
<duflu> Hi didrocks and callmepk 
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks 
<oSoMoN> hey callmepk 
<didrocks> hey callmepk, duflu, salut oSoMoN 
<duflu> And hi jamesh 
<jamesh> hi duflu 
<oSoMoN> hey jamesh 
<didrocks> good afternoon jamesh 
<callmepk> hi jamesh 
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> salut seb128 
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va ?
<duflu> Morning seb128, how goes?
<seb128> hey oSoMoN, didrocks, duflu, how are you today?
<oSoMoN> I'm good, how are you yourself?
<duflu> seb128, got up early and did pilates, so that's unusually good.
<seb128> oSoMoN, I'm fine, not fully awake yet but coffee will solve that issue :)
<seb128> duflu, ah sounds like a nice way to start the day
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va bien, merci ;) but coffee needed here as well :)
<Laney> hey ho
<marcustomlinson> morning callmepk oSoMoN duflu didrocks jamesh seb128 and Laney
<Laney> the Deskstreet Boys
<marcustomlinson> Deskstreet's back alright!
<Laney> Desk II Top
<Laney> Desklife
<didrocks> hey hey marcustomlinson & Laney 
<Laney> good morning!
<Laney> I've had a lot of tea already
 * Laney is sloshing around
<duflu> Morning Laney
<duflu> âââ
<Laney> hey duflu 
<seb128> hey Laney, marcustomlinson, how are you?
<seb128> Laney, britney didn't make you crazy yet? ;)
<didrocks> was there a lot to save anywayâ¦ :p
<Laney> moin seb128 
<Laney> doing alright, sun is back today but it's cold
<Laney> you?
 * Laney stares at didrocks 
<didrocks> lalala
<didrocks> :)
<Laney> yesterday I mostly did the easy bits
<Laney> rescuing commits that could maybe go upstream and putting those on a branch
<Laney> well, easy, but every one of them conflicted so
<seb128> :-/
<Laney> the next stage is to actually resolve the differences and keep what we need 
<seb128> it has been raining here this night but sun is starting to show back now
<Laney> all good fun!
<Laney> did take the chance to learn vscode a bit better
<Laney> helped me do that cherry picking quite nicely
<marcustomlinson> seb128: doing good thanks
<Laney> using 'gitlens'
<marcustomlinson> Laney: vs code is really awesome when you get to understand it
<Laney> ye
<Laney> I still use the embedded terminal for too much stuff probably
<Laney> but that's learning I guess
<marcustomlinson> learn the layouts of tasks.json and launch.json and your world becomes a better place
<didrocks> I didnât get to force me using gitlens
<didrocks> just tried few times
<Laney> with that I could scroll all the way down 3 years to where we diverged
<Laney> look at the deltas of all of those commits and cherry pick them to a new branch
<oSoMoN> good morning Laney, marcustomlinson 
<Laney> then use the normal vcs stuff to resolve / commi tit
<Laney> hey oSoMoN!
<seb128> tseliot, hey, unsure if you keep up with launchpad bugs activity so I'm mentioning bug #1877727 which seems another issue reported on focal where low power is not handled correctly
<ubot5> bug 1877727 in nvidia-prime (Ubuntu) "Nvidia dGPU active despite prime-select set to Intel card" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1877727
<seb128> tseliot, let me know if you deal with launchpad and those pings are annoying rather than useful and I will stop :)
<seb128> oSoMoN, marcustomlinson, ricotz, I'm going to let that libreoffice help/config/main.xcd issue to you, I spent enough time on that and I'm not really set up to build libreoffice and I think I did what I could from poking to diff/build logs and trying some ppa builds
<seb128> (just as a FYI)
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth ^
<seb128> oh, she's keeping IRC connected during the night
<seb128> sorry Heather, I though you wouldn't be on at this time which is why I didn't list you
<seb128> bug #1877970 also looks like it could be due to the same problem
<ubot5> bug 1877970 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Alt-X keyboard shortcut not defined in LibreOffice 6.4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1877970
<ricotz> this libreoffice help bug is really fun :\
<ricotz> hellsworth, oSoMoN, marcustomlinson, seb128, https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/commit/?h=wip/ricotz-groovy-6.4
<ricotz> PPA build for testingfollows
<ricotz> https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+sourcepub/11285414/+listing-archive-extra
<oSoMoN> ricotz, nice one, let's hope this fixes the bug indeed
<seb128> ricotz, interesting, I hope it works! I though a bit it could be something like that but I didn't see something in our diff with Debian that would explain why our builds would end up differently?
<ricotz> seb128, debian isn't using the "amd64" build of libreoffice-common for "all" like ubuntu does, but is doing an extra "all" build where nogui path is not triggered
<ricotz> the culprit is an unset USING_X11 var
<seb128> ah, I overlooked that the all build in Debian wasn't triggering the nogui path
<seb128> ricotz, thanks for the explanation :)
<ricotz> so hopefully this tweak causes the correct behaviour of the buildsys
<seb128> right, fingers crossed!
<kenvandine> hey seb128 
<kenvandine> seb128: any thoughts on bug 1871779
<ubot5> bug 1871779 in snap-store "Fonts are poorly rendered in Wayland session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871779
<kenvandine> basically snaps are showing the default theme for bionic when run under wayland
<kenvandine> and as soon as you open the appearance panel in g-c-c it all updates
<kenvandine> so it's relying on the gsetting to get the theme rather than X
<seb128> kenvandine, sorry but not offhand, might be a good one for James?
<kenvandine> yeah, probably
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth 
<hellsworth> hi there oSoMoN 
<seb128> hey Heather
<seb128> ok, meeting time
<didrocks> hey hellsworth 
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-05-12
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 12 13:31:28 2020 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-05-12 | Current topic:
<seb128> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), heather, jamesh (out), jibel (out), kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<marcustomlinson> \o
<Trevinho> o/
<kenvandine> o/
<hellsworth> o/
<Laney> _o_
<callmepk> o?
<oSoMoN> o/
<seb128> k, let's get started
<seb128> #topic rls-bb-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-05-12 | Current topic: rls-bb-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no desktop section
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1776447 was added there
<ubot5> bug 1776447 in xorg-server (Ubuntu Bionic) "Xorg's Indirect GLX broken from upstream regression" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1776447
<seb128> mhodson nominated it
<seb128> I suggest deleting the nomination and subscribing sponsors since there are patches attached
<seb128> well sponsors are subscribed
<seb128> tjaalton, ^ you might want to look at this one?
<Laney> yes, we tagged that notfixing already, delete it
<Laney> notfixing should remove things from the tracking list imo
<seb128> well we tagged ff-notfixing
<seb128> and that's bionic
<seb128> target deleted
<seb128> bug #1878155
<ubot5> bug 1878155 in thunderbird (Ubuntu Bionic) "Thunderbird fails to connect to server in FIPS mode" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878155
<seb128> dgadomski seems to be on it and assigned himself now
<oSoMoN> that's the thunderbird counterpart of a firefox bug that's already fixed upstream
<seb128> oSoMoN, ^ you might want to coordinate for upload or help him with sponsoring
<oSoMoN> yeah, will do
<seb128> thx
<seb128> #topic rls-ff-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-05-12 | Current topic: rls-ff-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> shrug, I again failed to clean up the list as I said I would do :(
<seb128> sorry team
<seb128> let's try to navigate it anyway
<seb128> bug #1877075	
<ubot5> bug 1877075 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell crashed at xcb_io.c:260: poll_for_event: Assertion `!xcb_xlib_threads_sequence_lost'' failed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1877075
<seb128> I would vote -1 for rls nomination
<seb128> hum, though Daniel says it's the most reported segfault on gnome-shell
<seb128> which is weird the linked error has only 1892 reports total, that seems low
<seb128> opinions?
<Laney> it might be in a few buckets, there's multiple linked there
<Laney> probably worth taking
<tjaalton> seb128: right, bionic will get it via the hwe update
<Laney> looks true to say it's #1 from https://errors.ubuntu.com/?release=Ubuntu%2020.04&package=gnome-shell&period=month
<hellsworth> there's a workaround but someone using nvidia can't easily use wayland so it wouldn't work for them
<seb128> also most users wouldn't know to do that workaround
<seb128> k, so yeah, on the month view the first entry for that issue has 6841 reports
<seb128> still low compared to the 50k gnome-software one toping the report but high enough
<seb128> I'm +1 though I've the feeling it's going to be one of those bugs that suck to debug, especially without reproducer
<seb128> other opinions?
<hellsworth> i agree it coudl suck but might be worth it
<hellsworth> +1
<kenvandine> i think we need to take it
<didrocks> agreed
<seb128> k, let's do that, I will assign to Daniel since Marco is always overcommited
<Laney> good plan
<seb128> bug #1865300
<ubot5> bug 1865300 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell-hotplug-sniffer crashed with SIGSEGV in g_str_hash() from g_hash_table_lookup() from deep_count_more_files_callback()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1865300
<seb128> Trevinho commented he though it's glib
<seb128> also unsure if has an user visible impact outside of apport, still even prompting to report crashes is annoying
<seb128> I would tend to accept the nomination
<seb128> opinions?
<didrocks> same due to apport prompting
<Trevinho> +1 for me as indeed is a regression
<Trevinho> but, need to figure out where, as no code change happened there
<Trevinho> and the tool looks sane, at least... from a quick view
<seb128> Trevinho, can you take on that one?
<seb128> doing that
<seb128> next
<seb128> bug #1876879
<ubot5> bug 1876879 in snap-store "gnome-software cannot install classic snaps if a channel is selected" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876879
<kenvandine> i spent time looking at that last night
<seb128> I tagged it, I think it sucks as an user experience for snaps
<kenvandine> it does
<Laney> rls bug for ken, +1!
<seb128> :-)
<kenvandine> i think i need robert to look at it
<kenvandine> but he's overloaded for the next couple weeks
<kenvandine> but i think we should take it
<kenvandine> get it in his queue
<seb128> kenvandine, k, doing that
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> the other ones are either the same bugs but listing another components or incomplete or assigned
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1865379
<ubot5> bug 1865379 in linux (Ubuntu) "Raspberry Pi 4 fails to wake at login prompt" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1865379
<seb128> him it's imcomplete
<seb128> wait
<seb128> how did I end up with that one in my copy buffer
<seb128> bug #1865379
<ubot5> bug 1865379 in linux (Ubuntu) "Raspberry Pi 4 fails to wake at login prompt" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1865379
<seb128> I don't see evidence it's rls material at this point
<seb128> I suggest deleting the targets and asking to go through nomination with rational if wanted
<kenvandine> agreed
<seb128> done
<seb128> the other ones are things fixed in pending SRUs or not properly assigned, I will clean things up
<seb128> #topic rls-gg-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-05-12 | Current topic: rls-gg-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> nothing to review there for today
<seb128> those are cleanups overdue like on the focal report
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> I will untag the wslu one which is assigned ti Patrick
<seb128> and the thunderbird one we discussed
<seb128> so that's it
<seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-05-12 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> pulseaudio fail test on riscv64 which is annoying
<seb128> I will look at this one
<seb128> oSoMoN, you are on the case for the firefox missing builds?
<seb128> gnome-photos / armhf needs to investigated, I will card it, feel free to grab it
<seb128> I've retried gtk/ppc but that might need investigating, I will card it if there is another failure
<oSoMoN> seb128, yes, I'm on the case
<seb128> oSoMoN, thanks
<seb128> oh, but gtk is unhappy on other architectures as well now
<seb128> so I guess that's a new issue and need investigation, I will card it
<seb128> feel free to grab it
<didrocks> seems ignition-transport will soon migrate now that it has been retried, which will free protobuf which will free up libphonenumber it seems
<oSoMoN> (struggling to get a s390x machine set up in the clouds)
<seb128> didrocks, ah, nice
<seb128> oSoMoN, i see that smcv fixed the librsvg build in Debian and groovy built fine now :)
<seb128> k, should be it for this week there
<seb128> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-05-12 | Current topic: AOB
<seb128> any other topic?
<didrocks> nothing for me
<seb128> seems not then
<seb128> thanks everyone, let's wrap there
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 12 14:07:52 2020 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2020/ubuntu-desktop.2020-05-12-13.31.moin.txt
<Laney>  cheers
<marcustomlinson> thx
<didrocks> thx
<oSoMoN> thx
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-05-13
<callmepk> good morning
<duflu> Hi callmepk 
<callmepk> hi duflu, how are you?
<duflu> callmepk, mostly good. You?
<callmepk> Good, thanks duflu 
<didrocks> good morning
<luna_> morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> hey luna_, oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks 
<luna_> Translations for 20.04.1 has opened now :)
<duflu> Morning didrocks, luna and oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<didrocks> hey hey duflu 
<luna_> so its Wimpress that came up with Groovy Gorilla :D
<luna_> https://ubuntupodcast.org/2020/05/12/s13e07-jumping-over-children/
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128, pas trop fatiguÃ© ?
<seb128> didrocks, lut, un peu mais Ã§a va :)
<duflu> Hi seb128 
<oSoMoN> salut seb128 
 * luna_ drinks tea and waits for Day 2 of RIPE 80 to start in 15 minutes
<seb128> hey duflu, oSoMoN, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, going well I guess. Some early nights and long sleeps. You?
<seb128> duflu, the night was a bit exciting but doing well, tired though :)
<oSoMoN> I bet :)
<marcustomlinson> morning deskrockers
<oSoMoN> morning marcustomlinson 
<didrocks> morning marcustomlinson 
<marcustomlinson> hey oSoMoN and didrocks
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson 
 * marcustomlinson waves at duflu
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, Laney
<Laney> hi
<didrocks> hey hey hey Laney 
<duflu> Hi Laney
<marcustomlinson> hi seb128 and Laney
<Laney> hey seb128 didrocks duflu marcustomlinson 
<Laney> looks like my desktop froze at 07:51
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/NTT6bHYVZV/
<Laney> NVIDIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
 * Laney shoots into the air
<didrocks> an ioctl which never returned
 * oSoMoN ducks
<duflu> Consider yourself lucky. I keep seeing freeze reports with nothing left in the journal
<oSoMoN> morning Laney, btw
<duflu> ... in other peoples' bugs
<Laney> I like it when journald decides to rate limit in the middle of the interesting part of the log
<Laney> (didn't happen this time)
<Laney> kenvandine: bionic daily builds are still failing https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/bionic/ubuntu/
<ricotz> hey desktoppers
<ricotz> seb128, oSoMoN, apparently the libreoffice help patch didn't work out, so trying to be more convincing https://launchpadlibrarian.net/479522892/libreoffice_1%3A6.4.3-0ubuntu0.20.04.2_1%3A6.4.3-0ubuntu0.20.04.3.diff.gz
<ricotz> Laney, hey, update for bios! :)
<ricotz> Laney, P8Z77-V LX BIOS 2501
<Laney> get it in fwupd
<Laney> :>
<Laney> well, LVFS âfwupd
<seb128> ricotz, hey, yeah I saw that, I checked the deb yesterday evening :(
<oSoMoN> hey ricotz 
 * Laney fixes gnome-photos autopkgtest failure
<Laney> adwaita-icon-theme dropped the dep chain that used to bring in librsvg2-common
<Laney> debian bug #959584
<ubot5> Debian bug 959584 in src:gnome-photos "gnome-photos: FTBFS: FAILED: src/photos-resources.c" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/959584
<XaT> hi there :)
<XaT> have you got a working preseed file and boot options for auto install ? 
<seb128> Laney, gtk+3.0 from proposed should fix that
<seb128> retrying with the new gtk should work
<seb128> Laney, ignore that, similar fallout I guess
<seb128> I though it was gnome-photos triggering the gtk test
<Laney> same problem different pkg
 * Laney spanks bigon!
<seb128> right
<bigon> having an icon theme depending on a library looked really wrong to me :p
<Laney> bigon: gtk doesn't try to load the svg when the .symbolic.png is there, right?
<Laney> Looks like adwaita-icon-theme in Ubuntu is buggy in this respect btw
<KGB-1> adwaita-icon-theme ubuntu/master 5db8d70 Iain Lane debian/rules * rules: Put the PNGs generated by gtk-encode-symbolic-svg in a-i-t * https://deb.li/3h0cs
<KGB-1> adwaita-icon-theme ubuntu/master b3f0c70 Iain Lane debian/changelog * Update changelog * https://deb.li/8vhv
<Laney> ^-
<KGB-1> adwaita-icon-theme ubuntu/master 43b25bd Iain Lane debian/changelog * Finalise changelog * https://deb.li/3NUyn
<KGB-1> adwaita-icon-theme signed tags e98f6fa Iain Lane ubuntu/3.36.1-2ubuntu2 * adwaita-icon-theme Debian release 3.36.1-2ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/Rw2e
<bigon> Laney: debian is also not ok in that regard
<bigon> isn't it?
<bigon> ah no, we have only 1 pkg in debian
<oSoMoN> ricotz, FYI, I've fixed (worked around, really) the firefox s390x build failures in the stable branches, and I've merged back the change in the beta branches
<oSoMoN> (this is bug #1878292)
<ubot5> bug 1878292 in firefox (Ubuntu) "firefox FTBFS on s390x" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878292
<ackk> hi, is fractional scaling supposed to be working on wayland too on 20.04?
<XaT> need help here https://askubuntu.com/questions/1238696/preseed-autoinstall-does-not-work-on-20-04 about preseed :)
<Laney> bigon: indeed, although it makes me wonder if we should drop shipping the .svgs
<kenvandine> Laney: oh good, failed for a different reason now :)
<kenvandine> Laney: i needed to open the track for gnome-3-34-1804
<kenvandine> Laney: done
<Laney> woohoo!
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hi, great!
<seb128> ackk, it's another gsettings key to set on wayland, the g-c-c control isn't working there which is bug #1871864
<ubot5> bug 1871864 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Toggle "Fractional Scaling" does nothing on wayland" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871864
<hellsworth> hi there desktopers
<seb128> hey Heather, how are you?
<hellsworth> i'm alright... why are you here and not with your new baby?
<seb128> I just sit a the computer 3 minutes ago, everyone is sleeping
<seb128> sat*
<hellsworth> everyone is sleeping... how nice is that :)
<seb128> indeed, I bet that's not going to happen often
<seb128> in fact it's around time to go wake up the older one
<seb128> I'm just taking a few minutes break and enjoying a coffee :)
<seb128> XaT, the person the most likely to be able to help you is off this week, maybe open a bug on launchpad
 * hellsworth cheers seb128 with her coffee
<seb128> cheers!
<seb128> :)
<XaT> seb128 thx
<ricotz> seb128, hellsworth, hi, looks like the libreoffice patch finally worked 
<ricotz> https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/commit/?h=wip/ricotz-groovy-6.4
<hellsworth> ricotz great job!!!!
<hellsworth> which ppa might i find this build in?
<hellsworth> also were there autopkgtests run?
<ricotz> hellsworth, please test it https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=focal
<hellsworth> gladly!
<hellsworth> i wonder why the arm builds failed
<hellsworth> there's no build log..
<ricotz> I assume they got killed due to some builder issue
<hellsworth> seems reasonable
<ogra> hrm ... is there no right click menu in nautilus anymore in 20.04 ? (my GF just selected about 1000 photos from a folder (ctrl-click selection), right clicked and 30min of selecting files were unselected ... and no menu shows up)
<hellsworth> ricotz: for some reason i don't see this package in a ppa when i have added the ppa to my test vm : https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/FpDR6p5Wjy/
<hellsworth> i see the 1:6.4.3-0ubuntu0.20.04.2 build but no .3 ..
<hellsworth> the .3 look like it was built for focal. i'm testing on a focal system. what am i missing for this to show up?
<ricotz> hellsworth, probably some launchpad issues (similar to the interrupted arm builds)
<ricotz> so some very large publishing delay
<hellsworth> ok then i'll just try later. thanks :)
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, ricotz:Â some of my arm* PPA builds got killed too
<hellsworth> thanks for the verification oSoMoN 
<seb128> ogra, hum, that should work, can you reproduce the issue?
<ogra> yep ... opening nautilus and right-clickin on ym laptop doesnt open anything 
<ogra> just selects like i would have left-clicked
<ogra> (or trashes the existing selection)
<ogra> i wonder if some broken setting persisted the upgrade, both laptops were upgraded from 16.04 ... not really running 18.04 at all, just using it to move on to 20.04
<ogra> so i wonder if settings only get migrated once you logged in once into 18.04 
<ogra> OH !
<ogra> so the right button on the touchpad acts as left-click ... but a two finger tap seems to prperly emit a right click 
<ogra> how weird
<ahayzen> ogra, maybe check what "Mouse click emulation" in Tweaks -> Keyboard & Mouse is set to, sounds like it could be on fingers rather than maybe area before or something
<ogra> checking
<ogra> ahayzen, hmm, so i cant have both like it always was ?
<ogra> seems these settings are mutually exclusive
<ogra> oh, i get both when disabling finger 
<ogra> how illogical
<ogra> (and how did it get set on both laptops ... hmm )
<ogra> ahayzen, thx !!!
<ahayzen> not sure how it works, just been caught out by it with different styles of touchpads before :-)
<sharpertool> I've had a heck of a time trying to launch a VNC session that isn't the main desktop on Ubuntu 20.04. I'd like to be able to launch a session of specific resolution, and also have multiple sessions.
<sharpertool> My host computer has 4 monitors, so, it makes sense to have a couple of VNC sessions open to the Ubuntu machine next to me.
<sharpertool> More specifically, I can launch vncserver all day. I've tried multiple combinations of options in xstartup, none work properly. Most result in a blank screen. The only one that halfway works is xfce4, but that looses mouse after a while, and some windows are not draggable/sizable, so it's really not working
<sharpertool> most examples involve spawning gnome-session, but that's never worked for me. 
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-05-14
<jamesh> robert_ancell: about that person complaining about the size of snapd-glib, it looks like the main culprit is that libicudata -- a 26MB library
<jamesh> it gets pulled in via libxml2, which is a dep of libsoup
<callmepk> good morning
<duflu> Morning callmepk 
<callmepk> hi duflu 
<jamesh> hi callmepk, duflu
<callmepk> hi jamesh 
<duflu> Morning jamesh 
<robert_ancell> jamesh, ah
<jamesh> robert_ancell: I guess this comes from the SOAP code in libsoup
<robert_ancell> That's annoying, I wonder if there's a way to avoid that.
<jamesh> You can rebuild libxml2 without ICU support.  It looks like Debian enabled it because Chromium requires it, and they didn't want Chromium using it's bundled libxml2
<robert_ancell> Ah, so if you're making something embedded I guess you need to roll your own version.
<jamesh> libsoup is probably about due for a replacement bundled with GLib anyway...
<robert_ancell> Yeah, GIO should probably have something there.
<jamesh> probably not covering everything libsoup does, but basic HTTP message parsing and connection handling are fairly common tasks these days
<KGB-0> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master ae2a150 Gunnar Hjalmarsson debian/ changelog patches/0015-connectivity-add-network-connectivity-checking-toggl.patch * Include "privacy" in Keywords for Connectivity panel * https://deb.li/3uj1z
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<didrocks> good morning
<luna_> morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks and luna
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks 
<oSoMoN> good morning luna_ 
<didrocks> hey luna_, duflu, oSoMoN 
<conjo> hi all- i would like to contribute to opensource im not a coder-"yet...but am reading/learning bash and python3", where should i start another suggested the following but they are not accepting any more users to join?
<conjo> https://www.firsttimersonly.com/ & https://www.codenewbie.org/ are all full
<oSoMoN> conjo, good morning! you could start by reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/
<oSoMoN> Ubuntu doesn't put any limit on users/contributors, and there are plenty of opportunities to contribute to the project in different ways
<conjo> oSoMoN, cools thank you =)
<jamesh> conjo: there are also non-code ways you can contribute to various projects too.
<conjo> yeah am reading about testing iso atm
<conjo> reading the walk throught https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Walkthrough
<jamesh> conjo: as for first time code contributions, I think your best bet would be to pick a project you're passionate about.  It's much easier to stay motivated working on something you're interested in and actually care about seeing fixed.
<conjo> thanks jamesh what where your first contributions
<jamesh> that's a very long time ago :)
<duflu> Ha
<conjo> conjour the magic relive the moment for me lols
<jamesh> some of my earliest open source work actually used by other people was a program to help do simple MySQL backed web pages (back when there weren't many choices for that)
<jamesh> it is a lot easier to contribute to existing projects these days
<Laney> moin
<didrocks> hey Laney 
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<duflu> Morning Laney and seb128 
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va ?
<thumper> hey team
<thumper> been meaning to comment on a few things
<thumper> been using kde for a while, but wanted to get back to the ubuntu desktop
<thumper> however with external monitors, it isn't remembering the setup between sessions
<thumper> and this is a deal breaker
<thumper> on focal
<thumper> I really like the fractional scaling per monitor
<thumper> is this a known issue?
<thumper> want a bug?
<thumper> however, not sure what I'd add to a bug other than the above
<didrocks> hey thumper! Hope you are doing well :)
<thumper> didrocks: yeah, pretty good, how's things where you are?
<thumper> are resturants opening?
 * thumper remembers the good food
<didrocks> good as well, restaurants are closed (only some shops opened since Monday) and we still have restrictions on our far you can travel (less than 100km). Anyway, busy with a second child, so didnât plan moving too far :)
<didrocks> I have dual monitors, and I recently saw one "jump" (resetting to default layout), but most of the time, this is fine. Maybe duflu or Trevinho can be of help?
<duflu> Hi thumper, didrocks. Try bug 1825593
<ubot5> bug 1825593 in mutter (Ubuntu Focal) "Display scale and layout not remembered when X11 Fractional Scaling is enabled" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825593
<thumper> sounds like that could be it
<duflu> ð¤
<seb128> hey duflu, didrocks, thumper, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, going well. You?
<seb128> I'm alright :)
<seb128> nice to see that the gnome-shell SRU was accepted, moving forward with fixes :)
<didrocks> seb128: tough night, but ok
<seb128> didrocks, :-( good luck
<Laney> hey didrocks seb128 duflu 
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, morning Laney 
<seb128> hey Laney, oSoMoN, how are you?
<oSoMoN> a bit tired, but good otherwise
<seb128> welcome to the club then :-)
<seb128> ricotz, hey, nice to see that you got the libreoffice issue resolved ... just a variant of the first fix you tried?
<seb128> great, gtk migrated, should help with other things without having to manually retru
<Laney> moin oSoMoN 
<Laney> yeah doing good!
<Laney> nice & sunny today
<ricotz> hey desktopers!
<ricotz> seb128, yes, it is an extension of the initial fix
<Trevinho> thumper: let me know if that doesn't help 
<Trevinho> seb128: shouldn't you be  in dad-only mode? ;-)
<marcustomlinson> thanks for that fix ricotz! sorry I couldnât be of more help, been buuusy
<seb128> Trevinho, bonjouno, I'm not much on the computer atm, I still would like to see some SRU and things moving so trying to squeeze some computer time in between things
<marcustomlinson> seb128: coz Ubuntu is your baby too right :)
<ricotz> marcustomlinson, don't worry
<seb128> marcustomlinson, lol, sort of I guess yes :)
<seb128> Trevinho, unsure what you are working atm but when you have spare cycles can you upload/SRU the dock update with the fixes we mentioned recently for the dash/dots (iirc?) issue and try to do an upload for the desktop icons one with the fix to use the current keyevent names? (recent git commit)
<ricotz> seb128, marcustomlinson, do you consider this libreoffice help bug urgent?
<ricotz> it might be worth to wait and include it into libreoffice 6.4.4 next week? (6.4.4 rc2 got tagged yesterday)
<ricotz> hellsworth, ^
<luna_> ricotz: ah cool :)
<marcustomlinson> ricotz: I would wait until the next release yeah
<ricotz> hellsworth, marcustomlinson, jfyi https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-prereleases/+sourcepub/11290855/+listing-archive-extra
<seb128> ricotz, waiting for the next upload should be fine, workaround is easy and that bug has been around for a while now
<Trevinho> seb128: I did upload that... no?
<seb128> Trevinho, sorry I missed that one for some reason, yes you did ... can you also do the desktop icon one? ;)
<Trevinho> sure!
<Trevinho> seb128: also https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/ShellExtensions/desktop-icons/-/commit/f31a96143ac0f26eb9bff89cdae3a5f8b7846aea would be nice, but probably needs translation update
<seb128> Trevinho, right, that's going to be for the new cycle, it's not important, using the dock is good enough for most cases
<Trevinho> ok
<Trevinho> as per me, I'm working in various fixes in gjs now, but I've in the works also a xorg fix and couple of g-c-c ones
<seb128> Trevinho, k, keep rocking :)
<seb128> Trevinho, bug #1878285 might be one for you
<ubot5> bug 1878285 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center crashes on setting up fingerprint" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878285
<seb128> though it might make sense to just land the refactoring rather than fixing bugs on the old version
<hellsworth> ricotz: yeah let's wait for 6.4.4 as seb128 and marcustomlinson said.. really just ack'ing that we're doing this :)
<hellsworth> also good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth 
<hellsworth> hi there oSoMoN 
<hellsworth> oSoMoN: seb128 ricotz i've been meaning to say.. thank you so much for all of your help with the libreoffice bugs lately!
<oSoMoN> IÂ don't think IÂ was of much help myself, butâ¦ you're welcome :)
<didrocks> good morning hellsworth 
<hellsworth> hi didrocks !
<hellsworth> how's the new baby?
<didrocks> hellsworth: night was though, which is to be expected TBH and probably not the last one ;) but everyone is going well which is the most important, thanks!
<didrocks> and are things for you and your family?
<hellsworth> we're surviving.. although my daughter had an accident last night and hit her head and we had to go to the ER... she's fine but has a black eye
<hellsworth> as she becomes more mobile, she's bound to hit things i guess. still is terrifying when it happens
<didrocks> urgh, not a nice time either to go to ER :/ yeah, it starts to be the age of protecting part of the furnitures but you canât fully avoid accident
<Laney> my sister's kid has a harry potter scar from when he was about that age and walked into a door
<Laney> it had to be glued back together iirc
<hellsworth> oh man
<oSoMoN> magical door?
<Laney> kids /o\
<Laney> voldedoor
<didrocks> urgh :/
<hellsworth> yeah aurelia fell and hit the humidifier right below the eyebrow.. it was not quite swollen shut this morning
<oSoMoN> the door that must not be named
<hellsworth> voldedoor!!!
<didrocks> I read that before being aged 5, 50% of children has some issues with broken or partially broken teeth. Already done with Martin, so I hope CÃ©leste will be the other 50% :p
 * hellsworth hugs Laney for the best pun of the day
<Laney> :>
<Laney> FIXUP FIXUP FIXUP
<GunnarHj> Hello seb128, I'm about to upload a fix of bug #1878515 to focal, but thought I'd check first if there is anything else in the pipeline.
<ubot5> bug 1878515 in gnome-desktop3 (Ubuntu Focal) "Encoding issue when translating locale modifiers" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878515
<Laney> cut about half of the commits now
<Laney> still way more to go
<Laney> weeee
<hellsworth> https://git.launchpad.net/~snappy-hwe-team/snappy-hwe-snaps/+git/network-manager/log/?h=snap-1.22
<seb128> GunnarHj, no change in the queue but GNOME 3.36.3 is at the end of the month, that could probably wait for those udpates
<seb128> on that note closing IRC, I was just walking by to stop the computer
<seb128> night
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-05-15
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: ping
<robert_ancell> hi
<kenvandine> hangout?
<callmepk> good morning
<duflu> Morning callmepk, afternoon robert_ancell, evening kenvandine 
<robert_ancell> o/
<callmepk> hi duflu 
<luna_> morning
<duflu> Morning luna_ 
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks 
<ricotz> good morning
<duflu> Hi ricotz 
<didrocks> hey duflu, ricotz 
<marcustomlinson> morning disttoppers
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson 
<marcustomlinson> hey didrocks, stop working so much
<didrocks> marcustomlinson: well, Iâll try reduce the cadence once the blog post series on ZSys and we have a good start on SRUing some fixes + encryption. so hum, next month probably :p
<didrocks> and I will use some days off then to paint ou new house (hopefully? if advanced enough) before we move in during summer (hopefully as well :p)
<marcustomlinson> didrocks: family first though alright
<didrocks> marcustomlinson: yeah, everything is going alright though, keeping fingers crossed that this goes on this way :)
<didrocks> (second is one easier than first oneâ¦ maybe due to experience? â¦ So far :p)
<marcustomlinson> yeah I'm finding the same :)
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson 
<marcustomlinson> hey duflu
<Laney> \o
<duflu>    o/
<duflu> Oops I am facing the wrong way
<didrocks> hey Laney 
<didrocks> one char spacing is not enough, social distance please! :)
<Laney>                                                                                                                               hi duflu and didrocks 
<duflu> Well I am approximately 13000km away. That should do
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<duflu> Hi seb128 
<didrocks> hey seb128 
<didrocks> Laney: heh
<seb128> hey duflu, Laney, didrocks, happy friday! how are you?
<duflu> seb128, I feel good. How are you?
<seb128> duflu, I'm good, it's a sunny friday :)
<Wimpress> Morning o/
<seb128> (also I'm a bit around today but not much, still keeping IRC on and trying to finish one ot two things during quiet hours ;)
<marcustomlinson> hey Laney, seb128 and Wimpress
<didrocks> seb128: Iâm good, thanks, cloudy Friday here though :p
<Laney> moin seb128 and marcustomlinson and Wimpress 
<didrocks> hey Wimpress 
<Laney> sunny, been hanging out watching bees this morning
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you?
<Laney> everybody ok there?
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<seb128> hey oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut seb128 
<marcustomlinson> Iâs aaaaiiit
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN, Ã§a va ?
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks. bien, et toi?
<duflu> Hi again Wimpress, oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<oSoMoN> morning Wimpress, marcustomlinson, Laney 
<didrocks> oSoMoN: Ã§a va bien, merci :)
<marcustomlinson> Howdy oSoMoN
<Laney> hey oSoMoN!
<FourDollars> Could anyone help me to upload https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1875797?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1875797 in OEM Priority Project "[MIR] oem-somerville-melisa-meta" [High,In progress]
<GunnarHj> Hi seb128, do you understand what's (not) going on here:
<GunnarHj> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#evince
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey, yes, https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages is easier to read sometimes
<seb128> but basically
<seb128> 'Depends: evince texlive-bin' means it requires texlive-bin to migrate with it
<seb128> that sounds a transition due to some package name change or something
<seb128> you need to navigate https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt for those cases
<seb128> e.g the most bottom entry has
<seb128> Trying easy from autohinter: evince/3.36.0-2ubuntu1 gummi/0.8.1-1 pyx3/0.15-3 texlive-bin/2020.20200327.54578-4 texworks/0.6.5-1 xdvik-ja/22.87.05+j1.42-2
<seb128> with a list of package names, those are things that would stop being installable if those ^ migrated
<seb128> usually they are things that need to be fixed (sometime it's just a lib/common package that is creating the issue for the set)
<seb128> from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/texlive-bin/2020.20200327.54578-4 it requires the newest texlive-base
<seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#texlive-base isn't ready though due to depends and failing tests
<seb128> GunnarHj, in summary it's a non trivial transition that needs to be worked out
<GunnarHj> seb128: Thanks for the lesson. Can I safely ignore the remind mails until someone sorts it out?
<seb128> yes
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, good to know. Actually that particular evince upload has already served its purpose. I just wanted to fix translation imports, and that was done when building.
<GunnarHj> Thanks!
<seb128> GunnarHj, np!
<seb128> GunnarHj, that evince upload is not great btw
<seb128> GunnarHj, also the package was in sync with Debian and should stay this way
<seb128> GunnarHj, dh_translations should refresh the .pot even if it exists no?
<GunnarHj> seb128: But translations were broken, so I thought I had to unsync for now.
<seb128> GunnarHj, also moving is buggy since the clean target doesn't remove it
<GunnarHj> No, it doesn't.
<seb128> it should though
<seb128> otherwise we hit that sort of issues
<seb128> we should force refresh an update
<GunnarHj> seb128: Then dh_translations needs to be modified.
<seb128> I would consider that a dh_translation bug
<seb128> yes
<seb128> don't you agree it would be better?
<seb128> what's the point to trust a static file instead of refreshing when we are able to?
<seb128> GunnarHj, also I would probably have done a rm rather than mv
<GunnarHj> seb128: Basically I do. I have a vague memory of raising the issue a few cycles ago, and that someone said 'no' about overwriting by default.
<GunnarHj> seb128: In this case I reported it upstream too: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/evince/-/issues/1387
<GunnarHj> seb128: But personally I wouldn't object to make dh_translations brutally overwrite what's there. :)
<seb128> GunnarHj, I might be overlooking an issue, anyway I'm going to commit the workaround to Debian, it's safe to do there and so we can stay in sync (just changing the mv for a rm, should work also and it feels clearner than letting a renamed file around)
<GunnarHj> seb128: I thought of that, but dh_translations doesn't exist in Debian. Or do you mean doing it as overwrite of some other dh_* script?
<seb128> GunnarHj, I didn't check but I think override a non existing target is fine, it will just do nothing in Debian
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ah, didn't know that.
<seb128> also otherwise doing it from a overriding configure or such should have the same result
<seb128> any target done before dh_translation is fine
<GunnarHj> Yep, makes sense.
<seb128> to the snap maintainers here, do you know how to remove a snap from a channel from the webUI ?
<oSoMoN> seb128, not from the web UI, but you can use "snapcraft close" to close a channel
<seb128> oSoMoN, can that be arch specific?
<oSoMoN> IÂ don't think so
<oSoMoN> seb128, from the web ui you should be able to browse to https://dashboard.snapcraft.io/snaps/SNAPNAME/revisions/REVNO/release/ and uncheck the corresponding checkbox, no?
<seb128> oSoMoN, thanks
<oSoMoN> did that work?
<seb128> oSoMoN, no, it says checking a channel is mandatory
<oSoMoN> seb128, try maybe publishing that revision to a temporary channel, then closing it? don't take my word that this will work though, better to ask the store/snapcraft folks
<hellsworth> good late morning desktopers
<didrocks> late morning hellsworth :)
<hellsworth> yeah i had an errand to run this morning so getting to my desk late :)
<didrocks> heh :)
<Laney> down to a mere 36 commits!
<Laney> enough to try to start rebasing I'd say
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth 
<hellsworth> hi there oSoMoN !
 * Laney nods hellsworth 
 * Laney hands the desktop baton
<oSoMoN> Laney, that sounds tedious
<Laney> it is
 * hellsworth nods back and takes the baton
<Laney> so after squashing everything down
<Laney> I'll have to break logical changes back out again ...
<Laney> to be able to upstream stuff
<Laney> I reckon most of these will cherry pick more or less cleanly
<Laney> just the autopkgtest policy that's going to be a beast
<Laney> so I'll leave that until last :>
 * Laney fades out for now
<Laney> happy weekend all!
<hellsworth> cheers!!
