#ubuntu-nz 2011-10-03
<snail> do we have to worry about updating the tz files for this kind of shit, or is there a crack team of geeks somewhere else who does it? http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/south-pacific/5724234/Dateline-shift-gives-first-light-to-remote-atoll
<ajmitch> the tzdata package gets frequent updates for this
 * ibeardslee recalls major kerfuffle when we changed and it took a while for some apps maintaining their own tz data to catch up
<ajmitch> like php5? :)
<ajmitch> which thankfully should use the system timezone info now
<ibeardslee> I think it may have been php .. could have been postgres though
<ajmitch> php was a problem for us
<ojwb> tz data seems a particularly dumb thing to ship your own copy off
<ojwb> of, even
<ibeardslee> yeap .. but the exclusivity of dumb is not limited to politicians
<ajmitch> ojwb: given that I was talking about php, are you surprised?
<snail> ojwb: i'd consider shipping my own tz data if i had to support windows platforms ~ 15 years ago
<ojwb> that's OK, timezones aren't likely to change for 15 years ago
<snail> ojwb: I always heard people say 'the past is a different country' but never considered the implications...
<ojwb> "We are currently working on PBT Transport e-services and expect them to be released in 2008." it says on their website
<ibeardslee> heh .. their tz data is waaayyy out of whack
<ajmitch> some people just take a little while to catch up :)
<snail> ojwb: fax them a screenshot...
<ojwb> not until they make my delivery
<ojwb> I'm holding the screenshot ransom
 * ojwb seems to be really bad at getting stuck into things when there's a pending delivery or someone coming round at a non-specific time
<mwhudson> ojwb: i don't know how people who don't have flexible work arrangements ever take delivery of anything
<ojwb> if it's small, we tend to just send it to jenny's work and reception sign for it
<ojwb> that way I don't need to listen out all day
<ojwb> i'd certainly be more annoyed if I had to take leave to wait for a delivery which didn't turn up
<chilts> when I got home on Friday, my parcel from Amazon was sitting on the doorstep :)
<chilts> no need to be at home
<mwhudson> heh yes, i had that happen with my thinkpad
<mwhudson> i wasn't very impressed
<chilts> this was just two books so not worth worrying much about, but yeah, a laptop is a different story
<ojwb> and that's one of the neighbouts, not the courier
<ibeardslee> morning
<chilts> morning
<snail> those four disconnects bought to you courtesy of our tuesday morning change window
<ajmitch> morning
<ojwb> morning
<Atamira> morena
#ubuntu-nz 2011-10-04
<ojwb> my delivery arrived, but I'm not totally impressed with PBT
<ojwb> they managed to send the delivery guys out without a complete address, which seems sloppy for a delivery company
<ojwb> boxes were damaged too, though the contents seem ok
<chilts> how much was missing from the address? they still got to you though?
<ojwb> it was name and suburb
<ojwb> but they had a phone number too
<ojwb> the address is actually on at least one of the boxes, but not the delivery slip
<chilts> new hardware?
<ojwb> nope, been here a few decades
<ojwb> not us, the address
<ojwb> oh, I totally misread that
<chilts> :)
<chilts> I thought so
<ojwb> not the sort of hardware you're probably thinking of
<ojwb> it's a greenhouse
<chilts> cool!
<ojwb> hopefully hot not cool
<chilts> in other news, my round zuchini started sprouting at the weekend :)
<ibeardslee> that's unfortunate
<chilts> though only 2 out of 9 seeds have come up so far
<ibeardslee> although to be honest zuchini is more edible than mung beans
<ojwb> 9 plants will probably bury you in zucchinis
<chilts> I did 9 on the presumption they all wouldn't come up, but only 2 is a bit sad (so far)
<snail> chilts: probably speaks to the seed storage or germination conditions
<chilts> it's completely the germination conditions, it's quite a dry soil even though I tried my best to keep it wet
<ojwb> probably not so dry right now
<chilts> if I was at home rather than work, it would have helped
<chilts> unfortunately, it's under an eve, so doesn't get that much rain :)
<chilts> so I have to manually do it
<snail> unless it's under an eave, that's considerably too much information for my sordid, sordid mind...
<ibeardslee> heh
<chilts> heh, eave :)
<chilts> my bad
<chilts> I never knew
<ojwb> wood ewe a damn and eave it?
<chilts> eye wud ent
<hads> 2 Zucchini plants is enough to bury us. I can't imagine 9.
<ibeardslee> morning
<chilts> morning
<snail> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<ajmitch> so how's oneiric treating everyone?
<ibeardslee> mostly goodly
<ibeardslee> have a test vm I sometimes get to play with
<mwhudson> i haven't upgraded yet
<mwhudson> probably should though, the random hangs on sandy bridge are apparently fixed
<ibeardslee> and my PC at home has been upgraded ... although I don't really use it much any more
<ajmitch> I should probably upgrade, unity on natty is annoying me more & more
<ibeardslee> RC is due out in a couple of days
<ibeardslee> will be reinstalling my laptop with that then
<ajmitch> at this point it should only be the major bugs being fixed
<ibeardslee> .. one would hope that the major ones have been dealt to and just tidying up the minor ones.
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: funny
<ajmitch> you'd think that, but since any upload could potentially cause a regression this close to release, only uploads that fix bad stuff are let through (for main)
<thumper> morning
<thumper> ajmitch: what problems?
<ajmitch> thumper: sorry?
<thumper> ajmitch: which natty unity problems are annoying you?
<ajmitch> generally the stuff that you've been fixing, like 4GB of RAM just never being enough
<ajmitch> if I'm really lucky, my desktop at home might be usable again if I upgrade :)
<thumper> :)
<ajmitch> it's a bit odd, it thrashes around like it's deep into swap, but top reports ~1.3GB of free memory
<ajmitch> like it's being pinned there but not showing in allocations
 * ajmitch hasn't logged out or rebooted for quite awhile on there
#ubuntu-nz 2011-10-05
<chilts> morning
<Atamira> morning
<snail> mÅrena
<ajmitch> morning
<snail> I'm assuming that the release isn't too close for this to make it in: http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/10/05/the-document-foundation-publishes-details-of-libreoffice-3-4-3-security-fixes/
<ajmitch> snail: security fixes get uploaded into a separate queue
<thumper> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<snail> people may know someone interested in http://checkthis.com/4w1
 * ibeardslee goes bye byes for reboot
<ojwb> afternoon
<ibeardslee> https://www.apple.com/stevejobs/
 * ajmitch looks at hacker news & sees the top 10 or so news items are about steve jobs
#ubuntu-nz 2011-10-06
<thumper> bummer
<thumper> as much as I tend to dislike apple, Steve Jobs was a visionary
<ojwb> it'll be interesting to see how things go for apple now
<snail> their announcement of his death is very tasteful, I wonder if he left instructions about that...
<chilts> it's very god-esque
<mwhudson> have you seen http://boingboing.net/ yet?
<ajmitch> classic
<mwhudson> my internet is sucking tonight
<ibeardslee> morning
<snail> mÅrena
<chilts> morning
<Atamira> MORNIN
<Atamira> oops
<chilts> :)
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> Morning
<thumper> morning
<fmarier> morning, and happy birthday mwhudson!
#ubuntu-nz 2011-10-07
<thumper> birthday?
<ibeardslee> yay for beer o'clock dist upgrade to beta releases
 * ajmitch likes the sound of the beer o'clock part of it
<ibeardslee> wish me luck
<ibeardslee> that seems to be all nice
<ajmitch> nothing broke so far?
<ibeardslee> had it uninstall and install firefox to get the search engines back
<ibeardslee> less config options in the 'control centre'
<ibeardslee> and with that success /me wanders away until he has to be back in the office tomorrow
<ajmitch> tomorrow?
<ajmitch> interesting, nz2.a.u.c seems a whole lot faster than nz.a.u.c from snap
 * ajmitch checked, the citylink mirror is the one on WIX, not the one in the US
#ubuntu-nz 2011-10-08
<ibeardslee> ajmitch: I find that one of the mirrors in .au is the one that Ubuntu reccomends
<ibeardslee> well except when I am at work
 * ibeardslee is currently working out how to 'preseed' his apt-cacher-ng cache with the files from an Oneiric DVD iso
<ibeardslee> seems to be on the to-do list .. does the netbook upgrade from USB and sets the proxy info before the update
<ibeardslee> s/upgrade/reinstall/
 * ajmitch is all upgraded now, most things are working
<ibeardslee> I decided to put 64bit on the netbook
<ibeardslee> so I just cache the one arch
<ibeardslee> although my server is still lucid i386
<ajmitch> it helped that I still had 10GB left on my cap for the month, and I upgraded to oneiric the day before a new billing month started
<ibeardslee> nice
<ibeardslee> ubuntu release cycles are often the killer for my bandwidth cap
 * ajmitch only used 11.4GB in total last month
<ibeardslee> although saved this time around by mainly working from the netbook that got updated through work .. the upgraded PC, hardly got used
<ajmitch> probably helped a bit by ipv6 traffic still seemingly uncapped
 * ajmitch uses a linode vps in the US, streaming on hulu works well there :)
<ibeardslee> ahh .. I did notice that TelstraClear have added more to their unmetered
 * ibeardslee is considering a campaign to nag them to add a Ubuntu mirror into that
<ajmitch> snap have been adding a bit
<ajmitch> it'd be nice for snap to have an ubuntu or debian mirror as well
<ibeardslee> you saw my comment about an .au mirror being preferred?
<ajmitch> telstraclear's routing is also a bit broken at times
<ajmitch> I was getting abotu 2MB/sec from nz2.a.u.c, which is vodafone now iirc
<ibeardslee> and yay something in the kernel has stopped the laptop locking up with the network cable plugged in
<ajmitch> it was just a bit surprising to only get 500k/sec from citylink
<ibeardslee> going via .us ?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> mtr showed it going straight to the wellington mirror
<ajmitch> given how it only took a few minutes to download everything from nz2, I didn't care too much :)
<ibeardslee> it's a pity our local mirror at work gets ignored by upgrades
<ibeardslee> distribution upgrades
<ajmitch> that is a pain, I'm sure there must be some way around that
<ajmitch> the most worrying problem that I had was games not starting from steam after the pgrade, turns out it's just a wine bug that can be worked around :)
 * ibeardslee doesn't play many (at all) games
<ajmitch> there are only a few there that I play occasionally - civ iv & v
<ibeardslee> of course with a fresh install you have to wander through wonder what you had installed previously
#ubuntu-nz 2011-10-09
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<snail> people may or may not be interested in https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-10-03/WikiProject_report
 * ibeardslee is holding off the final decision whether running x64 on his netbooks was a good idea or not
<ajmitch> are you having any problems with it?
<ibeardslee> just seems a bit slower
<ibeardslee> but then I also notice that the RC hasn't been released yet, so maybe still a bit of extra debug code floating around (maybe?)
<Atamira> morning !
<ajmitch> RC means an image that is releasable with no further changes, so there shouldn't be any debugging options on
<chilts> morning
<ojwb> morning
<ibeardslee> anyone using oneiric and connecting to samba shares?
<ajmitch> using oneiric, haven't tried connecting to samba yet
<ajmitch> what problems are you seeing?
 * ajmitch can browse the share fine in nautilus
<ibeardslee> 'nautilus //server/home/directory' works
<ajmitch> I just clicked through to the share, didn't edit the address
<ibeardslee> 'mount.cifs //server/home/directory blahblahetc' fails
<snail> I'd be interested to hear whether either of those work where the path includes macrons
<ibeardslee> 'mount.cifs //serverip/home blahblahetc' works
<ojwb> there was something changed with mount.cifs and/or umount.cifs I had to fix
 * ojwb looks
<ibeardslee> seems to want the IP addres rather than the hostname
<ibeardslee> and won't follow the extended path
 * ajmitch tries with mount.cifs
<ojwb> ibeardslee: oh, it was a change in natty I hit
<ibeardslee> which change?
<ojwb> "/sbin/umount.cifs has gone in natty, while setuid /sbin/mount.cifs only allows mounting partitions in /etc/fstab"
<ajmitch> mount error: could not resolve address for printer-pc: Unknown error
<ajmitch> that sort of error?
<ibeardslee> 'Unable to find suitable address.'
<ibeardslee> when using the hostname rather than IP address
<ibeardslee> mount error(2): No such file or directory
<ibeardslee> Refer to the mount.cifs(8) manual page (e.g. man mount.cifs)
<ibeardslee> with the IP (tha catches the extended path)
<ibeardslee> ojwb: I found that was causing problems at Lucid
<ojwb> it was definitely working for us in lucid, though I guess it might be a different case
<ibeardslee> no, similar problem
<ibeardslee> sorry my bad
 * ojwb just wrote a little setuid wrapper
<ibeardslee> .. anyway, back to do the print the file that was stored on the samba server that couldn't be connected with mount.cifs
<mwhudson> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-10-01
<hads> Who uses what for server monitoring?
<chilts> hads: I use https://nodeping.com/
<chilts> is that what you want, or are you talking about stuff _on_ the server?
<hads> chilts: Cheers, yeah was talking about on the server. Nagios and that type of thing.
<hads> Just updated a server 10.04 to 12.04. Dovecot configuration appears to have changed a lot. It broke quite well.
<hads> Luckily this was a server with only a couple users, I thought I'd use it as a test run.
<hads> I think that's the third time I can remember dovecot configuration being broken by a package upgrade. Once it got clobbered completely from memory.
<Atamira> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<ojwb> morning
<hads> morning
<hads> Five servers upgraded to 10.04 to 12.04 so far. Five to go.
<hads> Oops. One ran out of space half way through. Seem to have recovered it okay.
<chilts> morning
<chilts> hads: yeah, saw your tweet about the DoveCot breakage
<hads> I think it was mostly the config split up and re-organisation which caused that.
<hads> The existing config wasn't nicely transferred.
<hads> The next four to upgrade have more users and are more sensitve to downtime so I'll do those later.
<ojwb> hmm, did the pre-upgrade space check not catch the lack of space?
<ibeardslee> my server 10.04-12.04 upgrade will probably be a new install onto a new machine
<ibeardslee> taking it to 64-bit
 * ajmitch should upgrade his linode vps to 12.04 one day, it uses dovecot as well
<hads> ajmitch: For reference, dovecot-common and /etc/dovecot/auth.d/ appear to be no longer used.
<ajmitch> good to know :)
<hads> Configs are split up and splattered into /etc/dovecot/conf.d/
<hads> 22 files.
<ajmitch> about as good as a split exim config
<hads> My old config without comments is 44 lines, so twice as many lines as there is now files :)
<ajmitch> slight overkill? :)
<mwhudson> so wheedle, eg
<mwhudson> *eh
<ibeardslee> I think wheedle is just a distraction by John Key
<ajmitch> most of what I've read on it so far has been about the security problems & general site brokenness
<ajmitch> not a great start :)
<mwhudson> yeah
<mwhudson> my entire opinion is formed from snarky tweets i think
<ibeardslee> heh
<ajmitch> mine's also informed by 2 minutes of trying to browse the site & getting 404s clicking on auction categories
<mwhudson> https://twitter.com/TradeMe/status/252895259862892544 is amusing
<ajmitch> haha
 * ajmitch wonders if he should use persona for a new site
 * ibeardslee likes the idea of having a reduced set of personas .. but buggered if he'll use facebook, or twitter or even google+ for that
<chilts> ibeardslee: in which case, you'll like Persona from Mozilla ... they're all for the Free Web after all
<chilts> so yeah, unlike using FB, Twitter, Google, Yahoo!, LinkedIn etc
<chilts> they also have your privacy and security in mind
<chilts> I think it's worth a look
<ibeardslee> chilts: will probably go that way as more things support it
<hads> I was going to use persona on a new app yesterday but discovered it doesn't currently work with third party cookies disabled :(
<ibeardslee> but there are still multiple personas for myself .. FOSS, hitting, shooting, buying/selling etc
<hads> persona lets you have multiple personas :)
<chilts> ibeardslee: true, sometimes I feel we each need different personas
<chilts> e.g. in GitHub, I'm different in different organisations
<ibeardslee> I wonder if firefox would put an override for the 3rd party cookies just for Persona
<chilts> but I don't want lots of different logins, since I'm still me
<chilts> I haven't figured out what I really want yet :D
<hads> They apparantly are working on fixing the third party cookie thing.
<hads> It's due to useing an iframe for communication.
<ibeardslee> I find it cycles a bit .. sometimes I start separating out again, and then I consolidate etc etc
<mwhudson> i'm way too lazy to separate
 * ibeardslee is vaguly wary that my running around and shooting people could cause problems when I get ranty about politics.
<ojwb> or maybe it'll help
#ubuntu-nz 2012-10-02
<mwhudson> https://twitter.com/nzkarit/status/252902515228700672
<hads> Oh dear. http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/wheedle-lets-you-see-and-change-reserve-price-someone-elses-auction
<ojwb> i can't help but think this is a counter-example to the "all publicity is good publicity" maxim
<mwhudson> yeah
<mwhudson> it's impressively bad
<ojwb> they don't seem to have a clear plan for beating the network effects
<ojwb> which are very strong for marketplaces
<ojwb> it looks like they were trying to make it easy and (initially) cheap for people selling lots of stuff to bulk list, so they don't just have a totally empty site at least
<mwhudson> they don't seem to have a clear plan for a product that doesn't look like it was done by a toddler in crayon
<ojwb> i did reach for my sunglasses when the front page loaded
<mwhudson> (and i mean both design and execution there)
<ojwb> stop dissing toddlers
<chilts> hads: yep, I think i'll need to write that one instead of using someone else's code :)
<chilts> will open source when I do
 * chilts replies on Twitter
<hads> ojwb: Missed your tweet, no pre upgrade check didn't catch it :(
<ojwb> i doubt you missed my tweet
<ojwb> unless someone is bored enough to be posing as me on twitter
<hads> Erm, yes. I was looking at your reply here and then caught chilts reply while I was typing.
<hads> Right, must make tea.
<ojwb> morning
<Atamira> morena
<ajmitch> morning
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<hads> LCA early birds are selling out quickly in case anyone didn't know that.
#ubuntu-nz 2012-10-03
<ajmitch> hads: I'd like to go, maybe I'll have to see if I can stay at my sister's place :)
 * ibeardslee just had the word from above .. it'd have to be under my own steam
<ajmitch> shame
<ibeardslee> aye
<ajmitch> ticket+accomodation+travel+days off work tends to add up a bit
 * ibeardslee really needs to find more interesting things to talk about
<ojwb> possible tip - osdc last year was in canberra and from wellington i found it was much cheaper (and actually quicker) to fly to sydney and get the bus which runs from sydney airport to central canberra
<ojwb> i saw something suggesting there might be direct flights by lca though
<ojwb> which would at least make that a slower option
<ajmitch> ojwb: yeah I've taken the bus from sydney airport before, it often works out pretty cheap
<ojwb> the one annoying feature is it's cheaper if you say exactly which bus you'll be on, which is a bit hard to predict with customs, etc
<ajmitch> unless you want to wait around for some time
 * ajmitch has always found australian customs to be fairly quick
<ojwb> yeah, usually isn't bad, but it'd be annoying to have to buy a whole new ticket
<ajmitch> do you have a NZ passport?
<ajmitch> in the last few years it's been made quicker with the automation, you don't really need to talk to a customs person
<ojwb> no, uk one
<ojwb> not quite been here long enough to get an nz one
<hads> It does add up, ticket price is only a moderate percentage.
<hads> I've missed the last two though so wasn't missing a third.
<G> ajmitch: Customs is only quicker etc, if you have absolutely nothing to declare, living rurally throws that out of the water so to speak
<G> 30-60 minutes in customs hall at Brisbane last time (includes the queue when I arrived in school holidays morning), vs straight through the MAF checkpoint at Auckland at 11:30pm with quite a few others
<ojwb> MAF seemed very slack coming in a few months back
<ojwb> no interest in walking boots at all
<G> ojwb: I have my entry to Australia routine down good "yeah, I live on a farm, but nothing I've got in my bag has been on the farmland, only the driveway" they umm and ahhh for a minute then decide to just put me through the dog queue
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira> morning
<Atamira> raining up here
<ibeardslee> supposed to be raining here this morning
<ibeardslee> haven't seen it yet
<ojwb> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<chilts> morning
<ojwb> every time I go to report a bug in ubuntu I find it harder to find the link
<ojwb> aha - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect
<thomi> lifeless: you around? Got a minute to answer some questions about testtools & unicode?
<thomi> I'm trying to figure out what I have to do to make testtools work with an assertion message that contains unicode characters, currently I get this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1259064/
<lifeless> thomi: ok, so thats not testools thats blowing up :)
<lifeless> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xa1 in position 425: ordinal not in range(128)
<lifeless> note that its a *decode* error,
<lifeless> but the line of code referenced is doing an *encode* operation.
<thomi> ... huh
<lifeless> thomi: you have a bytestring (type(foo) is str), which is non-ascii, and is being passed in to a thing that is expecting a string (type(foo) is unicode))
<thomi> hmmm
<lifeless> thomi: I bet you that if you put a debug statement there, or run under pdb or something
<lifeless>  you'll find text is a str, not unicode
<thomi> hmmmm
<lifeless> thomi: now, testtools can deal with arbitrary binary data, but you're in the text attachment codepath
<thomi> ahhhh
<lifeless> because backtraces are strings, not bytestrings (normally)
<thomi> the penny drops!
<lifeless> thomi: note that if you do this: raise MyException(u"foo\x8")
<lifeless> under python2.x
<lifeless> you'll fuck things up royally
<thomi> yeah, I'm attaching content using text_content
<thomi> ...which, n this test, will have odd unicode characters in it, and I'm using bytestrings :(
<lifeless> because python2 's __unicode__ and __str__ for Exception is broken.
<lifeless> thomi: so, either attach them as non-text
<lifeless> thomi: or attach them as text_content with actual strings, not bytestrings
<thomi> this is python 2, so my understanding is that there's just str and unicode, right?
<lifeless> effectively
<lifeless> there is a bytes type in 2.7, but its just an alias to str
<lifeless> so its not terribly useful in catching confused types early.
<lifeless> thomi: can you paste the attaching code?
<thomi> sure, I was using this:
<thomi> stdout, stderr = process.communicate()
<thomi> self.addDetail('stdout', text_content(stdout))
<thomi> where 'process' is a subprocess.Popen object
<lifeless> ah yes, so thats not going to work so well :)
<lifeless> as it could be anything ;>
<lifeless> you can either decode stdout
<lifeless> if you know, for instance, that its utf8
<lifeless> stdout = stdout.decode('utf8')
<lifeless> then it will be text that you're adding
<lifeless> or you can use the lower level layers to add what you've got with a more conservative encoding (e.g. cp1280 or whatever it is that accepts 256 bytes as legitimate, never crashes.
<lifeless> thomi: e.g.
<lifeless> self.addDetail('stdout', Content(ContentType('text', 'plain', {'charset': 'iso-8859-1'}), lambda:[stdout]))
<thomi> lifeless: cool, that works - thanks :)
<lifeless> thomi: np
#ubuntu-nz 2012-10-04
<ibeardslee> morning
<ojwb> morning
<chilts> morning
<mwhudson> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-10-05
<Atamira> afternoon
<kcj> Afternoon.
#ubuntu-nz 2012-10-07
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<ojwb> morning
<mwhudson> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-09-30
<Atamira> oh its monday
<Atamira> afternoon
<olly> morning
<snail> mÅrena koutou
<ibeardslee> morning
<chilts> morning
<kcj> Morning.
#ubuntu-nz 2013-10-01
<ibeardslee> morning
<ibeardslee> all going well .. back in a bit
<mwhudson> morning
<chilts> morning
<kcj> Morning.
<thumper> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-10-02
<olly_> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<thumper> morning
<chilts> morning
<olly_> hmm, poli seems to have a web-based thing now, which is virtually indistinguishable from a phishing scam
<olly_> i have no way of telling if the internet banking login served via an iframe at https://nz00702.apac.paywithpoli.com/IOLB/Login.jsp is legit...
<mwhudson> i think the banks got pretty upset about that
<mwhudson> http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/8099097/ASB-warns-customers-of-POLi-spoof
<mwhudson> http://www.bnz.co.nz/about-us/media/archives/important-security-update-poli
<mwhudson> etvc
<olly_> hmm, i rang westpac who told me it was legit
<mwhudson> oh i'm pretty sure it is
<mwhudson> but it's not exactly good training for users
<olly_> i think she didn't really get my concern that there's no way to verify
<mwhudson> well
<olly_> and if you know enough to look at the source, it looks suspect
<mwhudson> banks still occasionally phone me up and ask for my security details before offering a loan or whatever
<mwhudson> so...
<olly_> she didn't seem to have heard of poli until she asked the supervisor, which I find somewhat surprising
<hads> I blame the likes of AirNZ for using it and keeping their silly business alive.
<chilts> I hate Poli and refuse to pay AirNZ flights with it
<chilts> it seems sooo wrong
<chilts> as mwhudson says "it's not exactly good training for users"
<olly_> it used to be windows-only - i'm not sure this is really an improvement
<G> yeah, it was .NET then they started moving people onto a purely web based system
<G> the way they rewrite stuff around their iframes etc is pretty freaky, and for banks to allow it, I don't like it
<G> We need the Australian BPay (with enhancements) system to be honest
#ubuntu-nz 2013-10-03
<hads> The banks don't approve of it but don't seem to be concerned enough about it to enforce anything. I've never used it and don't plan to.
<hads> AirNZ use either that or card fees which are a complete rip off. I usually fly on other airlines.
<olly_> i guess just allowing online banking payments probably would mean a lot of hassle handling payments with incorrect reference details for the merchant
<olly_> presumably they also get a confirmation from poli that the payment has been made
<G> olly_: yeah, thats why I was saying more like the BPAY system (which is instant already) but with improvements for merchant checking payment was made
<G> iirc from my time in Australia the system was basically, login to Internet Banking, hit the BPay link/icon/whatever, type in the merchant number, then it asked for exactly what was required for the payment to go through, click the next button, and payment was made
<G> All it'd need is for a system for airlines/whomever to be able to automatically check that incoming payments totally the amount have been made using the reference numbers, and confirm the seats/sale
<G> (afterall, most people know how to browse to their bank's internet banking site.
<olly_> yeah, it should be hard to come up with a sane system
<olly_> should NOT
<olly_> interbank payments are usually next day here currently aren't they?
<G> But alas, the banks seem more interested in sticking with the 15+ digit account numbers for any sort of payments and fiddly text boxes for reference numbers, or pre-arranged agreements on a bank-by-bank basis to make it slightly easier
<G> (but more confusing)
<G> olly_: most are, but they are changing the system to hourly clearing
<G> (i think clearing is the right term(?))
<olly_> probably
<G> but yeah, it just needs some people to put their heads together and come up with a better solution
<hads> ASB, KiwiBank currently clear payments hourly. Some others do too I think.
<hads> ASB also allows you to pay people by phone number and Facebook and things with their mobile app. Seem to be quite forward thinking in some areas.
<olly_> not sure i really want facebook integration from my bank
<hads> No, neither. I haven't tried it as I'm not on Facebook but I guess it's a pretty big market to tap.
<olly_> though i guess it beats having to type in some random account number if you do
<hads> I guess it's some sort of store-notify-forward type system.
<olly_> i wonder if it helps prevent fraud, though people tend to accept friend requests pretty readily
<hads> Seems to be info here; https://www.asb.co.nz/mobilebanking/ Looks like you can pay by email address too.
<olly_> seems like it sends the recipient a notice, so kind of like paypal in that regard
<G> ANZ also have a system like that (based on their TV ads)
<G> unless that was in Australia and I remember it from the Australian ads  (problem with the same brand & ads in two countries)
<Atamira> morning
<olly_> morning
<thumper> morning
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-10-04
<olly_> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-10-06
<olly_> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-09-29
<kcj[work]> Morning.
<ibeardslee> morning
<ibeardslee> everyone having fun with bash?
<ajmitch_> morning
<Atamira> morena
<kcj[work]> Morning.
<kcj[work]> ibeardslee, x='() { :;}; echo No'
<G> oh jeez is that another ShellShock?
#ubuntu-nz 2014-10-01
<kcj[work]> Morning.
#ubuntu-nz 2014-10-02
<kcj[work]> Morning.
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-10-05
<mwhudson> morning
<olly> morning
<kcj[work]> Morning.
#ubuntu-nz 2015-09-28
<olly> morning
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> .. yes, morning all
<mwhudson> sun!
#ubuntu-nz 2015-09-29
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
<wizzyrea> is our mirror still playing up?
<wizzyrea> (in truth, I gave up and used the catalyst one in the end)
<wizzyrea> (but wanted to see what you all knew about it)
<ibeardslee> wizzyrea: I just use the Catalyst one as well
<ibeardslee> I should give that WR for becoming an offical mirror a bump
<wizzyrea> feels a bit like we might be better suited to running it than some others.
<wizzyrea> at least we'd pay attention if it went tits up.
<wizzyrea> hm, that is not strictly pc. sorry.
<ibeardslee> wizzyrea --   ;)
<wizzyrea> I will blame my over-caffienated state.
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-09-30
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
<chilts> morning
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-10-01
<olly> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<chilts> morning
<chilts> I almost typed moring - that would have been terrible
#ubuntu-nz 2015-10-04
<mwhudson> morning
<ibeardslee> yes .. morning
<hads> morning
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-10-03
<ibeardslee> morning
<hads> morning
<atamira> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-10-06
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-10-09
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2017-10-03
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2017-10-08
<mwhudson> morning
